From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Nov 2 00:44:30 1999 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 00:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 0938756466 0000003503 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 13 11:32:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17639 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:32:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA27387 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:34:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27382 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:34:14 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7KNIa19425 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:33:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:33:33 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: GMO/organic crop insurance Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 206 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA27383 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 I guess my suggestion to inquire about insuring organic crops against GMO contamination wasn't so goofy after all: Spain makes transgenic crop producers pay into insurance fund [BARCELONA] The Spanish government has decided that companies that produce or plant genetically modified crops must contribute to a 90 million Euro (US$100 million) insurance fund intended to cover environmental accidents. The move reflects growing calls for tougher restrictions on such crops from opposition political parties, non-governmental organizations, and consumers' associations. As a result of this pressure, the government's approach to transgenic crops will be debated in parliament this week after two left-wing parties expressed concern that Spain has authorized the planting of genetically modified crops that have not yet been approved in other countries of the European Community. Environmental issues have become more controversial in Spain since last year's ecological disaster, when thousands of tons of toxic waste spilled into the Doana national park last April after a retaining wall collapsed at the Aznalcllar mines in Seville. One party, the Bloque Nacionalista Gallego, is seeking either a moratorium or a strict limit on the import of such crops. The movement Ecologists in Action, which includes more than 300 environment-related organizations, has called for a ban on the 22 experimental field trials by the company Monsanto that have already been approved by the country's biosafety commission. Concern has been triggered by the high importation of modified crops, especially maize and soya. Between 15,000 and 20,000 hectares are said to have already been planted with such maize from the company Novartis. The number of licences for test plantings has increased from 36 in 1996 to 124 by January of this year. Transgenic foodstuffs became an issue in Spain in 1996, when seven Greenpeace activists held a protest in Barcelona against a boat containing 45,000 tons of soya, 2 per cent of which was genetically modified. Cristina Narbona, the environment-commission spokesperson of the socialist party PSOE, has urged the government to support demands being made at the biodiversity protocol meeting in Colombia to base the protocol on the so-called "precautionary principle". Xavier Bosch ********************************************************* ********************************************************* Flavio Luiz Schieck Valente Global Secretariat Global Forum on Sustainable Food and Nutritional Security c/o Agora - Associacao para Projetos de Combate a Fome SGAN 905 Conjunto B 70790-050. Brasilia. DF Brasil tel +55 61 347 4914 fax +55 61 274 8822 347 9002 cel + 55 61 972 1455 e-mail agora@tba.com.br *********************************************************** *********************************************************** On Another Front: INDEPENDENT (London) March 12 Land planted with GM crops may fall in value By Charles Arthur, Technology Editor Surveyors warned yesterday that farmers who plant genetically modified (GM) crops could see their land values fall, and that tenants of such land might face bills to make up the shortfall. The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) called for the creation of a land register through which potential buyers, and banks, could find out if and when GM crops had been planted or grown on a particular holding. In a separate move, the Government announced that the independent advisory group on planting of GM crops will investigate the effects on British wildlife and biodiversity of commercial growing. Lord Whitty, the environment minister, said that the remit of the Advisory Committee on Releases to the Environment (Acre) has been expanded, and a subgroup set up to examine biodiversity issues. "With these regulations in force, British wildlife species should be protected against effects from the commercial use of GM crops," he said in a Lords' written reply. However, the RICS report, sent to the Government's Office of Science and Technology and other departments, warned that growing such crops might lower the value of the land. In the case of tenant farmers, a landlord could, in effect, sue for any shortfall in land value caused by the tenant growing GM crops. Michael Chambers, director of the RICS's policy unit, said that if commercial growing goes ahead, it would require a permanent register of sites where GM crops were or had been. "It's very hard to see how it could be controlled once you grow on a widespread scale in the countryside," he added. ** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. ** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Mar 11 23:29:45 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA17480 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:29:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA25471 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:22:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA25414 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 22:22:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp230.cy-net.net [208.21.195.39]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07548 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:22:24 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6C04.0136F340@FLYLO>; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:13:26 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE6C04.0136F340@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: prisoners as laborers Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 19:24:48 -0600 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 For some reason in Tx anyhow, you have to be grant-funded or some other gvmnt 'charity' org to be allowed prison labor help. I have a friend who runs an environmental outside school for kids, and she is allowed 'trustee' type laborers for most of the heavy work. They do it for community service hours taken off their sentence, and most stay after the term is up, helping her as friends. It is a unique situation here. (martha) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:13:06 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18232 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:13:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA01378 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:14:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA01314 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:13:58 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7GFZa12647 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:13:23 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:13:23 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Eat In Wichita Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 206 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA01326 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 Eat in Wichita by Steve Sprinkel 11 March 1999 Eat in Wichita, because if you dont you will starve your way down the Interstate through all of southern Kansas and most of northern Oklahoma. Not that the bloom of fast food logos on the outskirts of Oklahoma City, poking far above the street-side bustle and fumes like mutant electronic dandelions should spur your appetite once you arrive there. Eat in Wichita, when and if the opportunity arises on the southbound route, for you will look nearly in vain for sustenance along I-35 thereafter. However, the short-term fasting may heighten ones perceptions, but I shall let you be the judge of that. Road Food, which is playfully interpreted as Road Kill in Compostia, Texas, presents for the conscientious traveler a continual meal-time quandary, flanked by dietary and political considerations, time, and the lack of any alternative to what seems like a fabulous array of choices, but in reality are merely the same menu under different trademarks with variously sassy, coy or boisterous marketing strategies. Fried Chunk Food, which is also synonymous with Greasy Junk Food, is the staple design for these vittles and I believe we may have reached a definite apogee concerning their multiplicity as well as their ubiquity. Whole sections of cities are now formatted and zoned to provide for these places. The transportation department serves as their advertising agency on every appropriate off ramp. The entertainment industry pre-links their motion pictures with semi-disposable, quasi-collectable plastic ware, only falling short of creating Jurassic Burgers or DarthVader Dessert Pie. Fast Food, as in: somebodys pulling a fast one. That other Junk Food outlet, television, and its allies in advertising, mercilessly pound home the message as if it was still necessary. But it's not. I saw the white flag of surrender fluttering in downtown South Haven, Kansas recently one afternoon. It is an agricultural dead-zone to match that big one off the coast of Louisiana.. In towns everywhere across the US Midwest, the echoing emptiness of the failed town-center, where even video-rental and antiques can not subsist, is the sure sign that the battle for the American Appetite is over. The bank doesnt even post For Rent signs. Make mine Olestra, and keep the TP handy, you freaks. Gimme a double-shot of that fat-free grease, you Zombies! You craven Stalinists! I thought you fought for fifty years to keep us from living under the yoke of Central Planning! And now you say that all you sought was our own convenience. But I could not even obtain convenience. I got off the Kansas toll road at the ramp to Wellington, went through town only noting a crumbling Pizza Hut, turned south on US 81, and figured Rome or South Haven would be able to fix me up. It was after noon, but these small-town caf proprietors will usually fry eggs even during the lunch hour. Rome turned out to be a big grain elevator. On the side of the road in "downtown" South Haven was the Blankspace Caf. Just "Pepsi" , and then CAF beneath the soda-sell. I walked in, checking first my wallet, and then the walls and the register to see if the magic words VISA or MASTERCARD were glued thereon. I was out of currency and South Haven was a foreign country that did not accept my VISA and which had been passed over by MASTERCARD. I didnt even bother to ask them about accepting my check, although my bank, NorWest, is nearly as recognizable now as Ronald McDonald . When I said the words" credit card" to the beautiful Kansas matron behind the counter, her reaction was the same as if I had asked her if she had a wine list. Two long-retired couples ate sandwiches and sipped soup, somewhat startled to see anyone new in what was nearly equivalent to their own kitchen at home. Okey-dokey! I returned ravening to my muddy vehicle, thinking. My first thought was that I had been reckless in not loading up on rye bread, nuts and fruit at "Everybodys" when I left Fairfield, Iowa, the day before. I mean to be pedantic: learn where the safe food is stored across this great wasteland of ours, because the health you protect may be your own. Every day is Y2K on the Interstate, my hippie sisters and brothers. I surveyed the jumbled contents of the Trooper. What do I have in here? I have three bottles of homemade organic pickles that Cissy Bowman made in Indiana. I have two Rye-Krisp ( TM) crackers left over from who knows when, and I have half a head of organic garlic. I also have some TUMS. Natch. I opted for the pickled okra, set aside the garlic as an antidote to my next experience eating a Hardees Fish Sandwich, savored the crackers and kept the TUMS in ready-reserve. I thank Providence that I had nearly a gallon of spring water on board. Like a grateful Crusoe, I turned south and headed back down to US 177 which took me to the NAFTAWAY, IH 35, and south towards Texas. Nearly like Dafoes hero, I could have called out " Chunks and calories everywhere, but not a bite of food to eat!" MacDonalds, Burger King, Wendys, Whataburger, Arbys, Hardees, Grandys, Dennys, Applebees, Popeyes, IHOP, Tastee Freeze, Jack in the Box A and W, In and Out, Long John Silver's, Dairy Queen, KFC, Chick-Fil-A , The Big Boy and Sonic. And thats just the northern tier. Once you get below 35 degrees North latitude, you hit the Hot Sauce Zone: Taco Bell, Del Taco, Taco Cabana, Chilis. Only Taco John seems to have carved out a niche for franchised tortilla vending in the northern climes. I could include the parallel food forms, such as those found at Subway, as well as the Italian Flatbread Conspiracy cartel of Pizza Hut, Mr. Gattis, and Dominos. Only Chinese seems to be immune to this twisted menu, probably because fresh vegetables are involved. Beyond Fries, I think the one menu item that really sums up Frytowns monotony is the battered, fried chicken chunk. I would have said " nugget" but the control on that word is governed by copyright. These generic chunks are what is wrong with not just the food supply, but agriculture generally: the planet is losing its diversity accidentally while greedily pursuing a business plan designed to provide fewer and fewer farmer and consumer choices. It is as if a big Hoover has roamed the countryside, pulling up farms and towns from their foundations. The economic alchemists have emptied the vacuum bag along the Interstates and in the concrete/neon outliers of "civilization". The miraculous recombination of these dissimilar, but formerly interactive and natural parts, being people, farms, animals, soil, merchants, government and service, is unquestioned progress. Libraries and the Lions Club, like the family farm, are endangered species. And the new cable-ready city-states do rule. Scratch cooking is only done for the rich. The homogeneity of the speed-fry menu is mirrored in the sameness of the countryside: its industrial. Its also easy! Its fun! And the kids like it too! Stay all day, and let em wear themselves out in our neoprene playroom. Win free coupons for your favorite stuff, which is also plastic. And best of all, you too can be a stakeholder, with your own easy-to-run, internationally marketed, readily identifiable food product dispensary. Computer: Big Mac! Hold the onions, Hold the lettuce, Hold the tomato. Extra Mayonnaise. Why this is getting to be so darn convenient that someday machines can run the whole enterprise. Just one " partner" at the console, and all he/she has to do is make sure the trucks get unloaded and that the grease stays hot. Keep it cheap though. Got to go for market share and volume of sales in this game. Just like those bushels of corn at the CBOT, fortunes are made in pennies these days. The next idea is entirely contradictory because it relies on technology: Wouldnt it be nifty to have a website that listed all the sources of organic foods across the country, so that no matter where you were, like in Cantril, Iowa, you would know there was an Amish store in the middle of the block across from the Post Office? Or that every Wednesday and Saturday you could go to Pure Luck Organic Farm in Dripping Springs, Texas, and buy goat cheese and vegetables? Or the location and time of every farmers market? God, Ill stay off the interstate for that. I wont mind the STOP signs, the combines and the horse buggies, just so long as I can dodge those chunks. Steve Sprinkel at the corner of Redbud and Bluebonnet Compostia, Texas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 12 00:13:57 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18242 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:13:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA02070 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:14:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA01970 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:14:35 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7ZIVa13170 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:13:25 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <64478596.36e89465@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:13:25 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Sinister Dane and the Kickapoo Disco Cosmonauts Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 206 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA01987 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 Allen Moody writes from La Farge, Wisconsin: All right folks, by popular demand, here are the latest lyrics for the Im Fixin to Mutate Rag arranged by Country Joe McDonald, lyrics by Sinister Dane, as performed by "Sinister Dane and the Kickapoo Disco Cosmonauts" at the Upper Midwest Organic Farmers Conference, with 1200 in attendance. I'm not sure if Country Joe appreciates what we've done because no one asked him. But, if every thing goes right and according to plan, we'll have a big release scheduled for Earth Day in April. Maybe we'll get our fifteen minutes of fame after all, donate all the proceeds to charity, and put Country Joe back on the map. To those of you unaware of what's going on, the following song is sung to the tune of the "I'm Fixin' to Die Rag" (a Vietnam War protest song) made even more famous when Country Joe sang it in front of 300,000 people at Woodstock. If ever we needed a "hip" protest song to rally around, this one is it. As you go through the song, you will find out it is ripe for revision. Write your own lyrics to fit your own mood. There are as many versions to this song as there are people, but the message will always be the same. In the vernacular of the Sixties, "Peace, brother." Allen "I'm Fixin' to Mutate Rag" Verse I D7 Come on all you farming folks G Ol' Monsantos blowin smoke D7 They got genetic freaks and corporate greed G You can spray anything but you can't save seeds E7 A7 Were changin Mother Natures rules D7 G Theres new genes in the pool CHORUS D/E D/F D/F# G And its one, two , three, what are we spraying for D7 G Don't ask me I don't give a damn, its a chemical promise land D/E D/F D/F# G And it's five, six, seven, get ready to perpetrate (or pollinate) E7 A7 D7 G Ain't no time to wonder why, you can kiss your farm goodbye Verse II Come on farmers, get off your ass Round Up Ready is here at last Sign away your privacy When you buy into technology You can be the first one on your block To grow genuine Frankenstein crops. CHORUS And its one, two, three, what are we spraying for Don't ask me I don't give a damn, its a chemical promise land And it's five, six, seven, get ready to propagate Cause, there ain't no time to wonder why, you can kiss your farm goodbye Verse III Come on scientists don't be slow This world needs GMOs There's plenty of money to be made Choppin those genes with the tools of the trade Ya know were not GOD, yeah were throwin the dice Thats what happens when you cut and splice CHORUS And its one, two, three, what are we spraying for Don't ask me I don't give a damn, its a chemical promise land And it's five, six, seven, let's go exterminate Cause, there ain't no time to wonder why, you can kiss your farm goodbye Verse IV Come on mothers throughout the land Put your fate in Monsantos hands Come on fathers don't hesitate To lose your farm before its too late (or, count your sperm, its not that great) Its all right you can trust in me Remember DDT CHORUS And its one, two, three, what are we spraying for Don't ask me I don't give a damn, it's a chemical promise land And it's five, six, seven, get ready to litigate Cause, there ain't no time to wonder why, you can kiss your farm goodbye (This last part is optional and works best in a nice rowdy arena. Don't forget to have everyone singing along with the CHORUS). Repeat FIRST verse and end with following CHORUS twice CHORUS And its one, two, three, what are we FARMING! for Don't ask me I don't give a damn, its a CORPORATE promise land And it's five, six, seven, get ready to TERMINATE Cause, there ain't no time to wonder why, you can kiss YOUR ASS goodbye (repeat twice at end) Allen Moody To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 13 17:57:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21974 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:57:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA17837 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:06:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA17813 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 17:06:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA52032; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:06:50 -0700 Received: from edandsue (dialup0195.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.53.39]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA43348; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 15:06:49 -0700 Message-ID: <002f01be6d9d$019cd120$27355281@edandsue.colostate.edu> From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" Cc: Subject: Re: Key foundation offer to "educators" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:59:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 Thanks to John Henning for pointing out the Key Foundation 'offer.' Not to belabor the obvious, but I can't resist copying the list of sponsors of the Key Foundation. Find the list below the next paragraph. Last Spring I renewed acquaintence with a childhood friend whom I discovered was employed virtually full time in running workshops like the one sponsored by the Key Foundation. She described herself as an 'activist' whose mission is to stem the tide of 'misinformation' and 'junk science' which suggests that agricultural chemicals are dangerous. Below is an excerpt from the Key Founation web page: Corporations Abitibi-Price AgrEvo Canada Agrium Avenor Celanese Contemporary Information Analysis Dow Canada DowAgraScience General Electric Canada IMC Kalium Canada Monsanto Canada Procter & Gamble Rhne Poulenc Saskferco Saskatchewan Wheat Pool Shippers Supply Simplot Tetra Pak Industry Associations Canadian Chemical Producers' Association Canadian Fertilizer Institute Coal Association of Canada Crop Protection Institute of Canada Industrial Biotechnology Association of Canada Ontario Forest Industry Association Ontario Waterworks Association Ontario Crop Protection Associaiton Packaging Association of Canada Packaging Career Council of Canada Human Resources Canadian Food Inspection Agency Industry Canada Natural Resources Canada Statistics Canada Private Foundations Donner Canadian Foundation (Toronto, Ontario) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 13 21:02:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23626 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:02:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA08602 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:27:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08572 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:27:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA16469 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.43); 13 Mar 99 19:25:41 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.43); 13 Mar 99 19:25:29 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:25:29 EST Subject: Re: Key foundation offer to "educators" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <9D2AD7B83@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 Ed S. - I didn't want to bias the discourse, so held off commenting. But since you have gone to the trouble of posting the list, I'll mention that I was once (and only once) invited to make a presentation to a Key Foundation event. Not knowing any different, I made just the type of presentation you'd expect me to make about the dangers of pesticides. I wasn't invited back. This annual, all expenses paid vacation is a clever, or perhaps not so clever, effort to inculcate certain values into people who will then pass along the same values to their students. Each time, apparently, they have a token opposition person, like me. Otherwise, it is solid industry propaganda. Buyer beware. Nothing worth owning is free. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 13 23:35:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA25955 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:35:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA09270 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:03:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA09257 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:03:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA04560 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D5MX4BP7; Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:03:36 EST To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 19:51:19 -0700 Subject: nitrogen scavenging plants Message-ID: <19990313.195236.3582.2.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,7-8 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 Dear SANETers: I recall someone looking for a non-nodulating alfalfa for scavenging excess nitrogen. There was much discussion about why one would want such a plant but don't remember any such alfalfa being reported. I just ran across a statement in Peaceful Valley's catalog description for TriosTriticale (Triticum X Secale) which is described as having an aggressive root system: "Use this crop to uptake excess nitrogen." Maybe this would do the job. --Edna ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 14 10:38:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09226 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:38:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA16502 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:46:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from iac20.navix.net (iac20.navix.net [207.91.5.26]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA16437 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:45:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from navix.net (xyp111p1.navix.net [206.158.218.11]) by iac20.navix.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA16721 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 07:42:09 -0600 Message-ID: <36EBDDB0.9361815A@navix.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:02:56 -0800 From: Richard Mazour X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: nicotine and Nabisco crackers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 Interesting story on RJR Nabisco. As a small investor in IRA's and SEP's, where do I find information on companies who's values are similar to mine? ( organic farmer not even hooked on coffee.) Thanks Rich Maroc wrote: > Misha, here's the NYT article on RJR's breakup, it's all greed and money, > human misery is not part of the equation except as it stimulates > litigation, which is more greed and money for lawyers. > > NYTimes: March 10, 1999 > > End of a Disaster: Dismembering RJR Nabisco > > By FLOYD NORRIS > > It's over. A decade after RJR Nabisco was bought in the > largest leveraged buyout in history, the company is being sliced into three > pieces. It is a sad saga for almost all involved. > "The story is what happens when you really overpay for a > company, and the debt levels are just too high," said Stephen F. Goldstone, > who will be the last person to hold the job of chairman and chief executive > of RJR Nabisco. > When all is finished, the only real winners will be those > who cashed out in 1989 -- primarily the shareholders who sold and the > investment bankers who arranged the buyout. > The losers include R.J. Reynolds and Nabisco, which almost > certainly would have been more vigorous competitors had they not been > saddled with more than $25 billion in debt from the buyout. Kohlberg Kravis > Roberts, the leveraged-buyout firm that engineered the deal, lost more in > reputation than it made in money. > Among the sufferers are investors who bought RJR Nabisco > stock in 1991, when the company went public again, two years after Kohlberg > Kravis took it private. > A $100 investment then is now worth $51. Over the same > period, the Dow Jones industrial average more than tripled. > Kohlberg Kravis gave up in 1994, trading its RJR Nabisco > stock for ownership of Borden Inc., the troubled food company. So far that > looks like a doubtful investment at best. > What went wrong at RJR Nabisco? The tobacco business proved > not to be as good a cash cow as the buyers thought it would be. The great > advantage of selling to addicted customers was reduced when price wars broke > out among cigarette companies. > Tobacco litigation proved to be a significant threat. > Those problems hurt RJR Nabisco more than its competitors. > Philip Morris, the largest tobacco company and the owner of Kraft Foods, has > seen its share price about double since 1991, while RJR Nabisco's price has > been cut in half. One difference was that Philip Morris had enough financial > flexibility to invest in promoting its products, including Marlboro > cigarettes and Maxwell House Coffee, while debt-ridden RJR Nabisco was > forced to cut back on promotional spending for Winstons and Oreos. Over > time, it hurt. > Now RJR Nabisco will sell its international tobacco business > for $8 billion to Japan Tobacco. That money, after taxes, will go to pay > debt. Then the domestic tobacco business will be spun off into a separate > company, with just $1 billion of debt. Shareholders of the current RJR > Nabisco will get the shares in that operation. > The remainder will be Nabisco, which will have two kinds of > common stock. One type, the Nabisco Holdings shares that already trade, will > have a stake in the profits from such products as Chips Ahoy and Ritz > Crackers. The other will have a stake in the same profits. But as the former > parent of the tobacco company, it will also be burdened with the possibility > of residual liability if lawsuits manage to bankrupt the tobacco company. > The discount between those two prices will show just how scared investors > are of tobacco litigation. > When all that is done, things will be almost back to where > they were in 1985, before R.J. Reynolds acquired Nabisco. Nabisco will again > be an independent company, albeit a weaker one than its predecessor. R.J. > Reynolds will also be independent, with a smaller market share in this > country and an international business that had to be sold to pay debt taken > on in one of the most misguided deals in Wall Street history. > In a more just world, the investment banks that made > hundreds of millions from the RJR Nabisco buyout might now join in the > suffering. Instead, they will collect more fees for their services in > dismembering the hobbled company. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 14 10:42:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09340 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:42:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA27691 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:10:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27651 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:10:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp192.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.192]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA22429 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:13:00 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:37:44 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-11; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 [Reposted with permission] On March 11, the Agriculture and Forestry Committee of the Canadian Senate released its interim report on Genetically engineered BGH. They were very much against it. The full report can be found at: http://www.parl.gc.ca/36/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/agri-e/rep-e/repint ermar 99-e.htm Here are the main recommendations: LIST OF RECOMMENDATIONS 1.The Committee recommends that Health Canada ensure full adherence to its conflict of interest guidelines and, in cases of perceived conflict of interest, publicly declare its reasons for accepting the appointment of any individuals for whom a conflict is perceived. (page 10). 2.The Committee recommends that decisions about the safety of drugs for humans, and the safety and efficacy of drugs for animals, be left with Health Canada evaluators (page 11). 3.The Committee, having heard the suggestion of some witnesses, recommends that the government conduct an evaluation of Health Canada's drug approval process to ensure that it fully safeguards human and animal health and safety. This evaluation should be undertaken by independent experts, either in conjunction with any follow-up activities of the Auditor General of Canada regarding the Health Protection Branch or subject to review by the Auditor General (page 13). 4.The Committee recommends that no Notice of Compliance be issued for rBST until the manufacturer submits the long-term studies identified by Health Canada's rBST internal review team as data missing from its submission and until a review of those studies more precisely determines any risks to human safety (page 17). 5.The Committee recommends that Health Canada ask that the study requested by the evaluators of the former Central Nervous System/Endocrine/Antiparasitic Division be conducted and submitted in order to meet the requirement of section C.08.004.(2) of the Food and Drug Regulations (page 18). 6.The Committee recommends that once human and animal health and safety are assured, the government establish an ongoing mechanism that would stimulate public discussion on economic, trade, social, ethical and other considerations related to drugs and medical devices that are being considered by Health Canada. This mechanism should involve the Canadian Food Inspection Agency where relevant, and may be one outcome of the Health Protection Branch's Transition initiative (page 21). 7.The Committee recommends that Health Canada officials appear before the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry no later than June 1999 to provide information about the initiatives undertaken to resolve the management problems identified in this report (page 22). 8.The Committee recommends that any federal government department asked for information by a parliamentary committee fulfill that request completely and as expeditiously as possible. Information that the department believes to be proprietary should be presented to committees in camera, with a rationale for maintaining confidentiality (page 24). 9.The Committee recommends that Health Canada, and in particular the Health Protection Branch, explore means by which ongoing consultation with the public, and information dissemination to it, can continue following the Transition initiative (page 24). ....... Here is an inspiring personal report from: Paul Davis in UK Fri, 12 Mar 1999 Subject: B-GE: UK TV Brilliant TV program last night!!!! Covered the whole Pusztai story, 'substantial equivalence', Caul Mosaic Virus, lack of control in US, GM in baby food ....... Dr. Pusztai came out like a hero. Putting his reputation on the line because he found something wrong, even though he was the man who originally said the snowdrop lectin was fine. He was very calm, clear and like a shining light in contrast to his devious and unbelievable opponents. Nice touch in an american supermarket. At the check-out, the reporter asked which products contained GM - check-out girl had no idea. 'Has anyone asked you that before?', 'No sir, you're the first'. Good interview with an american scientist pointing out how unpredictable the science is. Also Dr. Howard of Liverpool, a leading expert in child toxology, had a great impact. His concerns for children's & babies health came over as very genuine. Prof. James of the Rowett must be fuming!!! Everyone is now qouting him as saying the current regulations are not comprehensive enough!!!! And Minister Jeff Rooker ranted on again how fed up he is people talking about the potato - 'This potato is not on the market'. However at the end of the program the reporter said that they had research Government & EU papers and had found that a number of crops containing the snowdrop gene are in the pipeline for approval - cauliflower, rice, maize..... and a POTATO!!!!! ....... posted by MichaelP Royal Society sets up inquiry on Pusztai expts. INDEPENDENT (London) March 11 Inquiry into work of GM food scientist By Steve Connor, Science Editor A high-powered team of scientists has been appointed to investigate the work of Dr Arpad Pusztai, whose findings triggered a furore over genetically modified (GM) food. The Royal Society, Britain's most eminent body of scientists, has asked six of the country's leading scientists to review the data that led Dr Pusztai to warn that people who eat GM food are "unwitting guinea pigs in a mass experiment". The six specialists were selected by the Royal Society for their expertise in different disciplines and their independence from the Pusztai affair. None has commented publicly on the controversy. It is almost unprecedented for the Royal Society to establish what is effectively an independent peer review of a scientist's unpublished work. It was brought about because of the intense publicity associated with the Pusztai affair. Last August, the Rowett Research Institute in Aberdeen suspended Dr Pusztai after he claimed in a television interview that rats fed GM potatoes had stunted growth and a defective immune system. The institute said Dr Pusztai had no evidence on which to base his assertions and claimed that he had become "muddled" over experiments that had not taken place. In February, 20 scientists, mostly friends of Dr Pusztai, signed a memorandum supporting him, citing new evidence. The members of the review team include experts in statistics, nutrition, animal genetics, epidemiology and pharmacology. They will report their findings next month. ........... Here is a recent Natural Law Party Press from release that I was forwarded from Europe: http://www.natural-law-party.org E-mail: nlp@euronet.nl 11 March 1999 SCIENTISTS ALERT MPs TO BAN GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS A special all-party briefing for MPs of the British parliament was held on 8 March in London in a House of Commons committee room, given by scientists concerned about the introduction of genetically modified foods. Professor John Fagan, an eminent molecular biologist with 23 years of experience at the cutting edge of molecular genetics techniques in cancer research, called for greater caution in the introduction of genetically modified foods. "If genetic engineering is to be used in agriculture and food production, its implementation should be guided by the same kind of rigorous science and testing that is now used to assess new pharmaceuticals and food additives. Stringent short-term and long-term safety testing and environmental assessment are essential," Dr Fagan told MPs. An imprecise and uncontrolled process Using detailed charts to explain the process of genetic engineering, Dr Fagan showed how the insertion of specific new genes into an organism is an imprecise and uncontrolled process that may influence biological functioning in unpredictable ways. "There is always the risk that genetically engineered foods may contain unintended allergens and toxins, and may be reduced in nutritional value. Furthermore, genetically engineered crops may disrupt the ecosystem by reducing bio-diversity, damaging soil fertility, inducing the development of new pathogens, pests, and weeds, and increasing the use of toxic and carcinogenic agrochemicals." Dr Fagan is Professor of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry. He initiated world-wide debate on genetics research in 1994 when he returned almost two million dollars of grants from the US National Institutes of Health because of concerns about the dangers of genetic engineering and the hazards of releasing GM organisms into the environment. Dr Fagan is also chief scientific adviser to Genetic I.D., a company that provides genetic testing services to food, nutritional, and agricultural industries throughout the world. The tests Dr Fagan has devised are significantly more sensitive than any currently utilised by British authorities and can detect the minutest trace of any GMO. Medical and agricultural applications of genetic engineering Dr Michael Antoniou, Senior Lecturer in Molecular Pathology and head of a research group at one of London's leading teaching hospitals, explained the difference between clinical and agricultural applications of genetic engineering. "Genetic engineering in medicine tries to correct a genetic defect that is either inherited, as in muscular dystrophy or cystic fibrosis, or acquired, as in cancer. Strict regulations quite rightly demand that the use of genetic modification (GM) in medicine does not result in the intentional release of viable GM organisms (GMOs) into the environment," Dr Antoniou said. "In marked contrast, the use of GM in agriculture tries to 'repair' plants that have nothing inherently wrong with them. In agriculture, GMOs are produced specifically for their intentional release into the environment. "In medicine a new drug or therapy produced using GM must undergo pre-clinical and, more importantly, clinical trials to assess not only efficacy but also to detect any unexpected, undesirable side-effects. However, for GM food no tests with human volunteers are required by law for either toxicity or allergic reactions prior to marketing. "Medicines are clearly labelled, and they are taken voluntarily, and the effects are carefully monitored. None of this applies to GM foods. Under current EU regulations most foods (90%) containing GMO-derived ingredients need not be labelled. The lack of effective segregation means the public has no choice as to whether to eat GM foods or not, and finally post-release monitoring is non-existent. Any problem that subsequently arises would therefore be virtually impossible to trace," he said. Respecting natural boundaries "If BSE has taught us anything it is that we should think twice about using a technology in a manner that violates well established natural boundaries. Nature works according to the principle of 'least action' (maximum economy) suggesting that everything exists for a purpose. Natural boundaries or laws can be seen as the means by which the evolutionary direction and integrity of life is maintained. "We should not lull ourselves into a false sense of security: we should not think that by regulating something which is inherently unpredictable and uncontainable it automatically becomes safe," he said. Dr Antoniou is the author/co-author of more than 50 publications and is biotechnology adviser to many organisations including the Soil Association and the Society for the Promotion of Nutritional Therapy. A total ban Dr Geoffrey Clements, leader of the British Natural Law Party and a physicist by training, emphasised that the scientific knowledge behind the so-called technology is totally inadequate to guarantee that the GMOs now being produced are free from hazards. "It is like expecting a physicist trained under Newton to operate a nuclear reactor," Dr Clements said. "The actual methods employed are intrinsically dangerous and highly unnatural," he said, referring to the fact that genetic modification can involve pieces of DNA from scorpions, fish viruses, bacteria and other species being implanted in the DNA of cereals, vegetables, fruits and animals. "Contrary to the arguments being put forward, these are mutations of the DNA that could never occur in nature. They are being made to occur in isolated species over a time scale of one or two years. In nature, evolution of the DNA usually takes place over millions of years, in a natural environment of all species living together in balance. "This means that we have no way at all of predicting any adverse results that may happen. When the methods of genetic modification are understood - that they involve pieces of virus and bacterial DNA, for example - it is clear that we are unleashing potential disaster for all life forms. "The only safe way forward is a total ban on all new GM crops and foods, and a recall of all crops and products already being grown and prepared." The Natural Law Party was the first political party to declare itself opposed to GM foods, and it is now actively campaigning on the issue in 80 countries. ........ GM Farmers have Grounds for Concern Experts warn of fall in land values similar to effect of contamination or disease CHRISTOPHER CAIRNS Environment Correspondent Scotsman 11th march 1999 GENETICALLY modified crops could reduce the value of agricultural land across Britain and leave tenant farmers open to legal action, the Government has been told. In a warning which has sent tremors through the already crisis-hit farming industry, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) has said GM crops could have the same effect on land values as contamination or the outbreak of disease. The RICS has sent a report to the Office of Science and Technology and several other Government departments calling for the setting up of a land register through which potential buyers and banks could find out if and when GM crops had been grown on a particular holding. Environmentalists have backed the RICS and warned of disastrous consequences for British agriculture if the Government presses ahead with commercial scale GM crop trials. ....... [This is top story for Mar 11, 1999 on OneWorld News [http://www.oneworld.org/news ] AGRICULTURE: Death To Monsanto, Say World Scientists By Ranjit Dev Raj NEW DELHI, Mar 11 (IPS) - Conscientious genetic engineers and activists from across the world Thursday called for a slow but sure death for Monsanto, the U.S seed giant they say threatens life on earth with its genetically modified crops. ''It must be death by a thousand cuts,'' said Tony Clarke, director of the Polaris Institute in Canada which assists social movements to develop tools, skills and strategies for fighting economic globalisation and corporate power. Clarke was among participants selected to devise future strategies against 'Genetic Engineering and Patents on Life' at the close of the two-day 'Biodevastation II' meet here. Monsanto figured high on the agenda because of stiff resistance put up in this country by farmers and activists to field trials in 40 widely separate locations of genetically engineered Bt cotton carried out by the corporation on doubtful authorisation. Said Pushpa Bhargava, a distinguished India biotechnologist who has the French Legion d'Honneur to his credit, ''clearance for the trials should have come from Indian Council of Agricultural research (ICAR) - instead clearance came from the Department of Biotechnology and after the trials had begun.'' ........ The Christian Science Monitor March 10, 1999, Wednesday SECTION: USA; GLOBAL REPORT; Pg. 1 Signs of the food fight to come BYLINE: Laurent Belsie, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor DATELINE: ST. LOUIS HIGHLIGHT: Gene-spliced plants and hormone-treated beef raise ethical questionsabout how much to fool with nature. BODY: Geneticists are on the verge of revolutionizing agriculture and medicine in much the same way computers have transformed business. Labs around the world are working on crops that could feed a growing planet, plants that could clean up contaminated soils, and pigs whose organs may one day get trans-planted into people. But to do these things, scientists are fooling with nature's basic building blocks. As they do, they are kicking up dissent around the world as one nation tries to sell its genetically altered foods to another's grocers. The current food fight between the United States and Europe - over hormone-treated beef and genetically altered soy beans - could be just a prelude of arguments to come. That's because the greatest risks probably don't lie with today's simple genetic alterations. Future rounds of exotic agriculture pose bigger threats because they will put organisms to completely new uses. The fundamental question: How much should science manipulate nature to care for mankind? And there's no going back, scientists say. Consider the US experience. While Europeans debate how far to proceed with the new technology, Americans are quietly ingesting the new foods, often without knowing it. "The genie can't be put back," says Marshall Martin, an agricultural economist at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Ind. "Anyone who eats pizza or cheese on their hamburger has consumed genetically modified food.... We pulled the cork out of the bottle in a sense with the discovery of DNA." For example, three-quarters of America's cheese gets its start with a bioengineered enzyme. Nearly 1 out of 6 dairy farmers injects his cows with a genetically engineered growth hormone to boost milk production. And genetically modified crops are increasingly taking over farmlands - with some 70 million acres planted worldwide, 60 million of it in North America. This planting season promises more inroads. For example, half of America's soybeans, perhaps more of its cotton, and a third of its corn could be genetically modified - a remarkable adoption rate in the four years since the new seeds were introduced. Other countries are also moving rapidly to incorporate the technology. Last year, some 650,000 farmers in China planted genetically modified cotton. And this year Monsanto, which produces the cotton seed, expects to double that number. Even the European Union has approved bioengineered soybeans and corn. Small quantities of corn, genetically modified to resist pests, are being grown in Spain and, if approved by France's high court, could start showing up in the fields of Europe's largest corn producer. ....... Daily Express 12 March 99 Why soya is a hidden destroyer Exclusive by Mark Townsend Fresh fears over the safety of genetically modified foods surfaced faced yesterday after new research revealed that food allergies relating to soya Increased by 50 per cent last year A study by Europes leading specialists on food sensitivity found health complaints caused by soya - the ingredient most associated with GM foods - have increased from 10 in 100 patients to 15 in 100 over the past year. Researchers at the York Nutritional Laboratory said their findings provide real evidence that GM food could have a tangible, harmful impact on the human body. The findings were sent to Health Secretary Frank Dobson last night as scientists urged the Government to act on the information and impose an instant ban on GM food, while further safety tests are carried out. Dr Michael Antoniou, senior lecturer in molecular pathology at Guy's Hospital, Central London, said: "This is a very interesting if slightly worrying, development. It points to the fact that far more work is needed to assess their safety. At the moment no allergy tests are carried out before GM foods are marketed and that also needs to be looked at." John Graham, spokesman for the York laboratory, said: "We believe this raises serious new questions about the safety of GM foods because it is impossible to guarantee that the soya used in the tests was GM-free." It is the first time in 17 years of testing that soya has crept into the laboratory's top 10 foods to cause an allergic reaction in consumers. __________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign for Mandatory labelling and long-term testing of genetically engineered food 500 Wilbrod Street, Ottawa, ON K1N 6N2 email: rwolfson@concentric.net http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html subcription to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months. __________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 14 18:01:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22912 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:01:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA03616 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:05:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03546 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA29689; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:05:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [4.9.244.107] (PPPa21-PhiladelphiaA1-3R76.saturn.bbn.com [4.9.244.107]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10583; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:04:52 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: libby@pop.igc.apc.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:08:34 -0500 To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU From: "Libby J. Goldstein" Subject: Spring Garden Rally Cc: Sally Wendkos Olds , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Blaine Bonham , COMFOOD-L@SARDONYX.TUFTS.EDU, community_garden@ag.Arizona.EDU, jeg30@columbia.edu, SeyNah@aol.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 >Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 14:06:51 -0500 >From: Rachel Treichler >Subject: Spring Garden Rally >To: cyberpark@treebranch.com >Cc: Ted Lewis >X-Sender: ecobooks@pop.interport.net >Reply-To: cyberpark@treebranch.com > >===================================================== >The CYBERPARK mailing list >===================================================== >WHAT WOULD SPRING BE LIKE WITHOUT GARDENS? >IF WE DON'T ACT NOW, WE MAY FIND OUT! > >>From Mayor Giuliani's Plan to Auction Off >Community Gardens, To The Admission Fee at the >Brooklyn Botanic Garden, Our Access to Urban Green Space >Has Never Been So Threatened! > >JOIN US FOR AN EQUINOX CELEBRATION ADN RALLY! > >Rally to Save Our Community Gardens >Protest the Entrance Fee at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden >Celebrate the Arrival of Spring > >MUSIC (BRING AN INSTRUMENT!) GAMES, INFORMATION AND MORE > >WHEN: Sunday, March 21, 2:30 pm >WHERE: Eastern Parkway Entrance to the Brooklyn Botanic Garden > (between the library and museum) > Take the #2 Train to Eastern Parkway > >Sponsored by the Park Slope Greens >Call Ted Lewis at 718-437-2758 for more info > > > >=================================================================== >You are in Cyberpark, a public place. All opinions expressed here >are of the authors themselves, and not necessarily those of the >associations hosting this list. To remove yourself from Cyberpark, >send e-mail to listserv@treebranch.com with only the words >UNSUBSCRIBE CYBERPARK in the body of the e-mail. >To join send SUBSCRIBE CYBERPARK >=================================================================== >Add your events to the Treebranch Network Calendar! >http://www.treebranch.com/cgi-bin/calendar/calendar.cgi >=================================================================== >Cyberpark is a project of Neighborhood Open Space Coalition, Friends of >Gateway, and the Treebranch Network. Visit http://www.treebranch.com. >=================================================================== > libby@igc.apc.org Libby J. Goldstein phone & fax: 215-465-8878 Philadelphia USDA zone 7A Sunset zone 32 My garden must be n-dimensional if it's out here in cyberspace. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 14 18:51:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24288 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA04540 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:58:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net [200.44.32.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA04536 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:58:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from redfox (nas4-103.ras.mbo.cantv.net [161.196.247.232]) by rs1s2.datacenter.cha.cantv.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1/1.0) with SMTP id SAA27204; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:58:42 -0400 (VET) Message-ID: <0ed401be6e6f$802cd6c0$11ecc4a1@redfox> From: "Red Fox" To: , "Libby J. Goldstein" Cc: "Sally Wendkos Olds" , , "Blaine Bonham" , , , , Subject: Links to the World Labor Markets Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:07:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 http://members.tripod.com/lagofox Links to the World Labor Markets, Bolsas Electronicas, and Information on Career Planning and its Life Cycle. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 14 20:05:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26186 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:05:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA19943 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:13:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA19875 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:13:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA20873 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:13:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from phcglen (12.2.59.7) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Sun, 14 Mar 99 18:14:27 CDT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990315000719.00697860@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:07:19 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: answers to simple-minded question Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 Following are some of the direct responses to my question, > Can someone briefly explain why antibiotics are used as > growth promoters in livestock? Aside from controlling minor diseases, certain antibiotics increase feed use efficiency, presumably by reducing the amount of energy spent growing big crops of bacteria in the gut. Dale Wilson It seems to have something to do with a thinning of the intestinal layers-of course has not been well studied, but it was found that the animals absorb more caloric value from their feed. I think you'll have trouble finding much of a mechanistic explanation, given the hostility toward basic science research which has persisted now for many years. They noticed faster weight gain, so they decided to feed antibiotics. L. Muldowney Antibiotics are used in livestock for a higher feed efficiency. The livestock have a better rate of gain meaning the farmer will not have to feed the animals as long. What it all translates to is that in these highly competative times, if the farmer's neighbor is using it he better use it as well or he won't be farming very long and the other farmer will get farther ahead and be in a better position down the road to make purchases such as equipment and additional land and leaving him in a stronger position all around. Paul To use antibiotics as weight gaining substances seems bizarre to me. If the payoff is that the antibiotics we need to fight infection in humans are losing their effectiveness, is this a choice our society wants to make? It intrigues me how this issue brings together so many disparate factors. Jane Sooby University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer High Plains Ag Lab 3257 Rd. 109 Sidney, NE 69162 308-254-3918 308-254-2402 (FAX) 308-254-0725 (HOME) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 10:10:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18886 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA15767 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:46:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA15697 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:46:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA12349 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 05:46:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [4.9.122.69] (PPPa47-NewYorkB2-1R163.saturn.bbn.com [4.9.122.69]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA25810 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 05:46:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 05:46:08 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: corevaluesne@pop2.igc.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: corevaluesne@mothers.org (CORE Values Northeast) Subject: Job Opening Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 Job Opportunity: Please Post EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR Leading green consumer education and advocacy organization seeks dynamic, hands-on Executive Director that's always looking over the next hill to orchestrate all phases of organization development and growth, including long-range and programmatic planning, staff and board development and management, fiscal management, public relations and communications. Requirements: strategic leadership skills in non-profit fundraising, organizational and financial management and administration/operations; strong communications and interpersonal skills; proven team building and problem solving skills; demonstrated interest in environmental health issues, food and agriculture, and consumer activism; high level of motivation and drive; lots of energy; creativity, and a zest for what you do. Apply: Send resume to ED Search, Mothers & Others, 40 West 20th Street, New York NY 10011; fax, 212-242-0545; email, wgordon@mothers.org Francine Stephens Program Associate Mothers & Others "Take Your Planet Personally" To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 10:39:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19859 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:39:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15886 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:36:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15806 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:36:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.214] (term6-22.vta.west.net [205.254.241.214]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA18016 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:35:02 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: colibri@west.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:36:24 -0700 To: From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Spain: Transgenic Crop Producers Must Pay into Insurance Fund Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA15819 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 Spain makes transgenic crop producers pay into insurance fund [BARCELONA] Saiu na Nature v397n6721, pp636.... The Spanish government has decided that companies that produce or plant genetically modified crops must contribute to a 90 million Euro (US$100 million) insurance fund intended to cover environmental accidents. The move reflects growing calls for tougher restrictions on such crops from opposition political parties, non-governmental organizations, and consumers' associations. As a result of this pressure, the government's approach to transgenic crops will be debated in parliament this week after two left-wing parties expressed concern that Spain has authorized the planting of genetically modified crops that have not yet been approved in other countries of the European Community. Environmental issues have become more controversial in Spain since last year's ecological disaster, when thousands of tons of toxic waste spilled into the Doana national park last April after a retaining wall collapsed at the Aznalcllar mines in Seville. One party, the Bloque Nacionalista Gallego, is seeking either a moratorium or a strict limit on the import of such crops. The movement Ecologists in Action, which includes more than 300 environment-related organizations, has called for a ban on the 22 experimental field trials by the company Monsanto that have already been approved by the country's biosafety commission. Concern has been triggered by the high importation of modified crops, especially maize and soya. Between 15,000 and 20,000 hectares are said to have already been planted with such maize from the company Novartis. The number of licences for test plantings has increased from 36 in 1996 to 124 by January of this year. Transgenic foodstuffs became an issue in Spain in 1996, when seven Greenpeace activists held a protest in Barcelona against a boat containing 45,000 tons of soya, 2 per cent of which was genetically modified. Cristina Narbona, the environment-commission spokesperson of the socialist party PSOE, has urged the government to support demands being made at the biodiversity protocol meeting in Colombia to base the protocol on the so-called "precautionary principle". Xavier Bosch To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 10:39:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19868 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:39:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16096 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:37:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16006 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.214] (term6-22.vta.west.net [205.254.241.214]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA18081; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:35:27 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: colibri@west.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:36:49 -0700 To: , From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Canada: Climate Change Called Farm Issue Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Canada: Climate Change Called Farm Issue Western Producer March 11, 1999 Internet: http://www.producer.com/current_news/this_week/news/03111999news03b.html Imagine farming with more drought, more wind and more hail. Those are some reasons farmers should worry about climate change, natural resources minister Ralph Goodale told the recent Canadian Federation of Agriculture annual meeting. "Most of the available models predict that the world can expect more severe and more frequent climatic change," he said. "We all need to move more decisively to mitigate the threat." Goodale urged more participation by the agricultural industry in meeting the climate change challenge. He said producers should be concerned because they could face a significant amount of adaptation. Agriculture generates at least 10 percent of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, which are causing climate change, he said. Identifying agricultural soils as carbon sinks is one way Canada can help meet its Kyoto Protocol commitment to reduce emissions to six percent below 1990 levels between 2008 and 2012. "Work done by Agriculture and Agri-food Canada indicates that, within a few short years, agricultural soils will have shifted from being a net source of greenhouse gases to a net sink," Goodale said. He added that Canada has made progress in having agricultural soils recognized, but officials need more research and arguments to convince other countries. "The Canadian position is clear," Goodale told delegates. "We see the carbon-storing capacity of the soil as a tremendous opportunity for farmers around the world to be part of the climate change solution." He said agriculture research needs to be broadened to include climate change factors. For example, work on soil conservation, the use of pesticides and fertilizers, water quality and manure management all have greenhouse gas implications. Research has shown that reduced tillage and less summerfallow help soils incorporate carbon dioxide. Goodale said including sinks in the climate change equation would be incentive for sound land management, and an accompanying improvement in soil quality, plant production, water conservation and the bottom line. Ken Kelly, a delegate from the Ontario Federation of Agriculture, asked Goodale if there would be any tangible compensation for early action by farmers. Goodale said that is being discussed as part of a crediting system for early action by any sector. "If we can produce such a program ... that would be a very green program," Kelly said. Delegates passed a resolution calling on the CFA to lobby for minimum-till agriculture to be recognized as a carbon sink, and to lobby against increasing input costs through a carbon tax without compensating farmers for the carbon they are removing. OFA delegate Sharon Rounds said large corporations shouldn't be given credit for work done in other countries. "We feel that we have the best carbon sink mechanism," she said. "We're dreaming in technicolor when we think we can plant rainforests in other countries." Bob Down, also from Ontario, said it's "time to get our oar in the water on this issue." Delegates heard that same message from Chris Pierce of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. He told them to be innovative in how they plan to live and work in a carbon-constrained world. "Make sure your voices are being heard in Ottawa," he said. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 10:44:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20296 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:44:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15885 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:36:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15807 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:36:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.214] (term6-22.vta.west.net [205.254.241.214]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA18022 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:35:05 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: colibri@west.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:36:26 -0700 To: From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: CARE Rejects Plan to Work with Monsanto Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 CARE Rejects Plan to Work with Monsanto St. Louis Post-Dispatch; 03/12/99 After meetings in St. Louis this week, the international relief agency CARE said it would not enter a partnership with Monsanto Co. because of worries by farmers in developing countries about Monsanto's genetically engineered crops. Milo Stanojevich, CARE's chief of staff, said Thursday that it became clear at the end of two days of discussions that brought CARE representatives from around the world that his organization had no interest in an alliance that St. Louis-based Monsanto was suggesting. The partnership could have meant contributions from Monsant for CARE's projects. The rejection is a setback for Monsanto, which stood to boost its image around the world and perhaps counter suspicion of its genetic technologies that exists widely outside of North America. But Stanojevich said his organization wasn't persuaded that genetically modified crops would benefit subsistence farmers in developing countries where CARE works. He said the concerns reflected fears by many farmers that they could become dependent on Monsanto if the use of modified seeds becomes dominant in farming. "There are concerns about the dependence it may create on one company," Stanojevich said, speaking by telephone from Atlanta. "What we said was that at this point, there are open questions about this technology and that we didn't really see how continued bilateral talks would be fruitful." But he added that CARE hopes to involve other organizations in future discussions about genetic engineering with biotechnology companies. CARE is one of the world's largest privately run relief and development organizations, operating in 60 countries. It was founded in 1946 as a means to help European survivors of World War II. Monsanto's chief operating officer, Robert B. Shapiro, had suggested the St. Louis meetings, which drew a 10-member CARE delegation to St. Louis from as far away as Africa and Asia. Shapiro also took part in the discussions. Monsanto asserts that its technologies can help farmers in developing countries to combat pests and drought, and that farmers will always have a choice in the seeds they plant. Philip Angell, **Monsanto**'s chief of corporate communications, described the meetings with CARE as preliminary. He said that they were not aimed at reaching an agreement on details of a partnership, although such an arrangement might have evolved later. "It was designed to start these two organizations talking to each other," he said. A partnership, Angell added, "would only have been a decision after dialogue and more back and forth." Soybeans, corn and other crops modified by genetic engineering are rapidly taking root in the United States. But in most of the rest of the world, it is another story. Europe and many developing countries have erected barriers to commercial production of modified crops. They worry that the safety hasn't been demonstrated over time and that its introduction could disrupt their farm economies and give a few companies too much control over their food and farmers. Those concerns were voiced loudly last month at U.N. biosafety negotiations in South America. In those talks, the United States, Canada and a handful of allies blocked a drive to establish global regulations governing the trade in modified organisms. Monsanto tried last year to establish an alliance with another respected international entity - the Grameen Bank of Bangladesh. The Grameen Bank is famous in development and lending circles for "microcredit" - loans to small farmers and the disadvantaged. But after being scolded by advocacy groups around the world, the bank backed out of an arrangement in which Monsanto had promised $150,000 to support its activities. Exactly what kind of partnership that Monsanto and CARE were talking about was unclear. CARE's Stanojevich said that "philanthropy" by Monsanto had been discussed but that the talks hadn't reached the point of specifics. CARE has a range of partnerships from licensing agreements in which companies use CARE's name on their products to simpler deals in which companies donate to help with projects in parts of the world where they do business. Two of CARE's best-known partnerships are with Starbucks and Delta Airlines. The main critic of **Monsanto**'s attempted alliances is Rural Advancement Foundation International, an advocacy group with offices in the United States and Canada. With its e-mail and fax network, the foundation already had begun to pressure CARE to avoid an alliance with Monsanto. Rural Advancement's executive director, Pat Mooney, said: "I think some of this is quite genuine on Monsanto's part and that they might have something to help solve problems. The danger in working with farmers who are the poorest of the poor is giving them loans tied to Monsanto's technology." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 10:47:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20405 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:47:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16123 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:37:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15987 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:37:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.214] (term6-22.vta.west.net [205.254.241.214]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA18057 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:35:19 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: colibri@west.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:36:40 -0700 To: From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: LA Times: Japanese Choke on American Biofood Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 Sunday, March 14, 1999 Japanese Choke on American Biofood Genetically altered produce reaps opposition. But moves to label it threaten $11 billion in U.S. sales. By SONNI EFRON, LA Times Staff Writer TOKYO--The video whirs, and an American food exporter's nightmare rolls across the screen. A potato bug is shown munching on the deep green leaf of a potato plant--genetically engineered in the United States, the narrator says, to produce a toxin that kills Colorado potato bug larvae. The bug falls off the leaf, flailing its legs in the air in what looks like insect agony. "They say this is safe, but I don't want to eat it. Do you?" asked the filmmaker, Junichi Kowaka, in an interview. Surveys show that most Japanese do not. In this land where food is considered most delicious when eaten raw or as close to its natural state as possible, genetically manipulated food is seen as synthetic, unwholesome and definitely unappetizing. To blunt a nascent consumer rebellion, the Japanese government has proposed labeling bioengineered food to give consumers the freedom to reject it. That in turn has alarmed the United States, which fears that the move could threaten its $11-billion annual sales--including about $1.3 billion from California--to Japan, the No. 1 market for U.S. agricultural exports. Japan is not the only nation gagging at the idea of genetically altered fare. A truly global food fight is underway. The outcome of the regulatory, marketing and public perception battle that has been joined in Japan could have far-reaching effects on what U.S. farmers plant next year, on the skyrocketing U.S.-Japan trade imbalance and on the struggle between biofood promoters and foes for the hearts and palates of consumers around the world. At issue in the emotional political debate that has erupted worldwide is how much to regulate and whether and how to label genetically modified organisms, known in biospeak as GMOs. These organisms are created when new genes--sometimes from another species--are introduced into a plant or animal to produce "desirable" traits, such as resistance to cold, pests, disease, spoilage or even a particular brand of herbicide. While U.S. farmers are quickly increasing the acreage planted with GMO seeds--to 40% or more of some crops--there is growing opposition in Europe, Japan and in some Third World countries on environmental, health, philosophical or religious grounds. The European Union has slapped restrictions on genetically modified plants and passed a law requiring GMO foods to be labeled. Well-organized environmental groups are crusading against what they have branded "Frankenstein food," fanning doubts about the products from Iceland to New Zealand. Anti-GMO protests have been staged in the Philippines, India and Hungary, according to activists, who are flooding the Internet with virulent attacks on biofoods. In London, where foes dumped bags of bioengineered soybeans onto Downing Street in protest last month, a poll by the Independent newspaper found that 68% of Britons were "worried" about eating GMO food. Only 27% said they were happy to eat it. Not all countries are hostile to foods altered by gene-splicing: GMO seeds reportedly have received a warm welcome in Russia, China and Argentina. And plenty of consumers have nothing against GMO foods so long as they know what is on the menu. A 1994 poll in Australia, for example, found that 61% were happy to try GMO foods, but 89% wanted them labeled. Australia and New Zealand are now trying to set up a common labeling system. New Zealand Prime Minister Jenny Shipley said earlier this month that consumers have a right to know whether their food contains GMOs. Nevertheless, a heated battle broke out last month at a U.N.-sponsored conference in Cartagena, Colombia, where delegates from more than 130 countries failed to agree on an international treaty to govern biosafety and trade in GMOs. The U.S. government warned that the restrictions being debated in Cartagena would paralyze international trade. According to media reports and conference participants, the United States and five other agricultural exporters that opposed labeling GMOs were bitterly accused by the other nations of torpedoing a global environmental pact to safeguard the interests of their farmers and biotech firms. The debate is by no means limited to food. Genetically modified material is being used in a wide range of products, from textiles to pharmaceuticals. Food Draws the Most Emotional Response Yet it is food that seems to generate the most emotional response. Consumer advocates say that people must have the right to know--and thus reject--food that has been subjected to genetic "tampering." Biotech backers say that requiring such labels is tantamount to branding demonstrably safe food as inedible and would raise food prices for all consumers. Proponents of bioengineering also say "genetically enhanced" species are essential to generate the crop yields needed to nourish the world's exploding population and to reduce use of herbicides and pesticides. They say the foods have been exhaustively tested and demonstrated to be safe enough to pass muster with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the Environmental Protection Agency, as well as international regulators. Foes assert that long-term studies on the effects of eating GMO foods have been inadequate. They question the environmental risks of developing pest-resistant or chemical-resistant crops, and they fear that bionic organisms could crowd out native species. A subtext in many countries is suspicion of scientific "miracles," new technologies and imperfect regulators, and the perception that the U.S. biotech industry has been heavy-handed in trying to shove new foods down frightened consumers' throats, said Beth Burrows, president of the nonprofit Edmonds Institute in Edmonds, Wash., who attended the Cartagena conference. Europeans have been sensitized to food-safety issues by the outbreak of "mad cow" disease. In Japan, the credibility of the Ministry of Health and Welfare was severely damaged by the 1996 revelation that its bureaucrats had knowingly allowed the sale of HIV-tainted blood products--a scandal that broke the same year that the ministry approved the first of 22 GMO crops for human consumption here. Availability of GMO foods in Japan has not led to acceptance. More than 80% of those questioned in a 1997 government survey said they have "reservations" about such foods, and 92.5% favored mandatory labeling. Unease is beginning to translate into action. The city of Fujisawa, near Tokyo, has banned all GMO foodstuffs from its school lunches. A tofu maker has begun advertising its product as "recombinant-DNA-soybean free." And a number of powerful food-buying co-ops--which claim nearly 20 million members, or about 1 in every 6 Japanese--are trying to screen out or label GMO foods. "It seems Americans only care about the quantity of their food, but Japanese are concerned about the quality," filmmaker Kowaka said. "Nobody wants to eat this stuff." Kowaka is a food-safety activist with the Japan Descendants Fund, a nonprofit group that has succeeded in provoking widespread concern among Japanese consumers about chemical-emitting plastics in food packaging and the use of post-harvest chemicals on food. Last year, a number of ramen makers changed their packaging after Kowaka's group reported that chemicals suspected of disrupting the human endocrine system leached from the plastic bowls when boiling water was poured over the dried noodles. Kowaka's current video, titled "The Dangers of Recombinant-DNA Food," has sold about 1,000 copies at $130 each and is being shown at lectures and gatherings by consumer, environmental and religious groups, he said. The Japanese government is countering anti-GMO groups like Kowaka's with a campaign to convince a skeptical Japanese public that genetically altered foods are not only safe but desirable. In fact, despite its draft proposal for a GMO labeling law, the Japanese government has been actively promoting biotechnology as a vital technology for the coming century and is investing billions to try to turn Japan into a world-class competitor. It is even attempting to genetically engineer strains of rice that will be tastier and hardier than conventional varieties. The politics of genetically engineered food here have been complicated by the fact that all the GMO foods offered for sale so far have been imported. Japanese companies have not dared introduce gene-spliced foods of their own, and although farmers can legally plant GMO seeds, so far none has chosen to do so, said Kazuhiko Kawamura, who deals with the labeling issue at the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. Foreign food producers complain that Japan's powerful agricultural interests are trying to scare off consumers from GMO foods as part of a campaign to boost domestic agriculture. "Over the last 30 years, there has been a concerted effort here in Japan to paint imported foods as being dangerous, as being less desirable," said Dennis Kitch, Japan director of the U.S. Grains Council. The effort has included everything from asserting to Japanese that their intestines are ill designed for digesting Western beef to convincing them that foreign produce is more chemical-laden than home-grown fare. Though false, U.S. officials and industry sources say, such claims have succeeded in instilling alimentary xenophobia. Kowaka's video is no exception. As the narrator warns that "we Japanese are being used as guinea pigs" for inadequately tested GMO foods, the camera shows unwitting children eating French fries--by suggestion, those made from genetically altered plants that kill potato bugs--at that archetypal American eatery, McDonald's. "They think all imported food is bad. That gets to be protectionist," said a U.S. government official who argues that GMO labeling should not be used to reinforce unfounded consumer fears. U.S. Wants Japan to Accept Standards The United States has decided to require labels on genetically altered foods that are nutritionally different from traditional fare, that might contain allergens or that pose religious problems--such as a plant containing a pig gene--if and when any are introduced. Yet it doesn't require labeling of foods whose chemistry is essentially unchanged, solely on the basis of genetic origin. GMO foes in the United States have filed suit in an attempt to reverse that decision, but meanwhile, the U.S. government is lobbying Japan to accept its standards. "We're asking them not to have a labeling requirement that stokes the fear that these foods are bad without any basis in fact," said a U.S. official, adding that there is no evidence these foods are unsafe. Kowaka insisted, however, that a potato with an inborn insecticide is no ordinary spud, and should bear a warning label if it cannot be banned altogether. The Japanese committee studying labeling for the Agriculture Ministry has not yet ruled on the issue or decided what any label would say. The influential American Chamber of Commerce in Japan warns that GMO labeling "will create new nontariff trade barriers to imports." And while U.S. officials are trying to keep their criticisms scientific and low-key, they also have hinted to Japan that they may protest any mandatory labeling requirement to the World Trade Organization--as they have done over the European Union law. Japanese consumer advocates are outraged by the American stance. Setsuko Yasuda, who runs the "No! GMO" campaign for the Consumers Union of Japan, said Americans should not meddle with Japan's right to regulate food safety and quality. If Americans truly believe in free trade and consumer choice, she said, they should label GMO food for what it is and let international customers make up their own minds. "But to try to hide information [about product origin] and force-feed people what they don't want to eat . . . is wrong," Yasuda said. "It is American arrogance, and it will provoke anti-American sentiment here. You will lose hearts around the world." For Japan and the United States, the stakes in the GMO battle are high. Japan absorbs nearly 20% of all U.S. food exports. With the American farm economy ravaged by the Asian economic crisis, the affluent Japanese market is one that farmers and food processors can ill afford to lose, grain lobbyist Kitch said. Japan's decision on labeling will be vital, and not just because of the size of its market; Tokyo's decisions tend to influence regulators in other Asian capitals. For Japanese, who must import more than half of the calories they consume each day, the increasing prevalence of GMOs in their food supply reinforces a feeling of food vulnerability. For example, 97% of Japan's soybeans are imported, mostly from the United States, and are turned into tofu, fermented miso, natto and other staples of the Japanese diet. However, 28% of last year's U.S. soybean crop came from GMO seeds, according to the American Soybean Assn. That percentage could double when farmers plant this spring's crop. "We will have to find non-GMO sources," Yasuda said, adding that if American farmers want Japan's business, they will have to segregate crops. Trouble is, U.S. farmers often plant GMO and traditional crops in the same field, use the same machinery to harvest and transport them, and pour their grains into container ships that bring a river of food across the Pacific to Japan. However, DNA testing is so sensitive that it can detect one GMO part per trillion, Kitch said. That means a few stray kernels of GMO corn could "contaminate" bushels. To certify a product GMO-free would require costly testing and segregation at every stage in the processing and distribution chain, he said. These obstacles have so far prevented Europe from fully implementing its labeling law, industry sources said. As GMO crops or livestock come to dominate the U.S. market, genetically pristine products will become scarcer and more costly. No one knows how much more expensive--though some estimate a "GMO-free" label could add 30% or more to the price, and wonder whether Japanese consumers will be willing to pay it. Japan's draft proposal on labeling does not specify how pure a non-GMO product would have to be. But without a threshold standard, a can of California tomato paste containing a smidgen of cornstarch that might have been made partly from GMO corn could wind up with a warning label--even if the tomatoes are all natural, Kitch said. Consumer advocate Yasuda and her allies say that imperfect labeling is better than none. And the fewer the "food miles" from farm to dinner table the better, they argue, even if home-grown fare is more costly. "Now, with globalization, we don't know where our food comes from, how it is produced, and what kind of contaminants it might contain," Yasuda said. "Does free trade automatically mean that the cheapest food is the best food? We don't think so." Copyright 1999 Los Angeles Times. All Rights Reserved To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 10:49:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20459 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:49:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15976 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:37:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15913 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:36:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.214] (term6-22.vta.west.net [205.254.241.214]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA18032; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:35:08 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: colibri@west.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:36:30 -0700 To: , From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Genetic Engineering, Factory Farming, & Organics Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 Genetic Engineering, Factory Farming, & Organics Ronnie Cummins and Ben Lilliston Rural America / In Motion Magazine URL: http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/geff.html News from Europe, India, Colombia, Mexico, Canada, and the U.S. Ronnie Cummins and Ben Lilliston Little Marais, Minnesota In what the Financial Times of London characterized on February 23 as a "public relations disaster for transgenic foods," global resistance to Monsanto and genetic engineering (GE) has sharply intensified over the past 60 days. As reported previously Monsanto Under Attack: Global Pressure Builds Against Monsanto, the international anti-GE movement is rapidly developing into a serious threat to Monsanto and other biotechnology titans. The growing crisis over gene-foods has reached the point where financial analysts are warning the Clinton administration that the European Union will not back off on efforts to label untested GE foods. Many believe this controversy could spawn a major trade war within the World Trade Organization (WTO). In Britain, commentators have similarly warned Prime Minister Tony Blair that his cozy relationship with Bill Clinton and Bill's favorite corporation, Monsanto, could do severe damage to Blair. It has been a rough last several months for Monsanto and the ag biotech special interests. Here is a chronological blow by blow account: * The Fall/Winter 1998 issue of the Union of Concerned Scientists' Gene Exchange warns of recent US research showing that genetically engineered Bt crops are building up Bt toxins in the soil, thereby damaging the soil food web and harming beneficial insects. * On December 15, 1998 attorneys from the Center for Food Safety, on behalf of a broad coalition, filed a legal petition in Washington, D.C. against the FDA to have rBGH taken off the market. The legal action received major attention from the mass media, including a widely-viewed segment on ABC TV national news. The CFS petition cites mounting evidence that the original testing of rBGH was flawed. In 1990 the FDA said BGH was "safe for human consumption." Part of its findings were based on 90-day rat feeding studies in which they reported "no toxicologically significant changes..." Based largely on this conclusion, FDA did not require human toxicological tests usually required for a veterinary drug. However in April of 1998, researchers from Health Canada, the Canadian equivalent to FDA, issued a report which contradicted FDA's findings. Canadian researchers found studies showing that rats were absorbing rBGH after all. In fact, between 20 and 30 percent of the rats were developing distinct immunological reactions. Additionally, cysts formed in the thyroid of some male rats and infiltrated the prostate--both warning signs for potential cancer hazards. "These are toxicologically significant changes in the rats and they should have triggered a full human health review, including assessment of potential carcinogenic and immunological effects," said Dr. Michael Hansen, an expert on rBGH and a scientist with the Consumer Policy Institute, a division of Consumers Union. According to CFS attorneys it is "unclear" how or why these results were overlooked in the original FDA review of rBGH. Monsanto says it submitted the studies to the FDA, while the agency says it only saw summaries of the rat tests. "We're going to go to the courts and say--you were lied to," said Andrew Kimbrell, lead counsel for the CFS. "Essentially it was fraud by the agency and fraud by Monsanto in telling the court that there were no human health effects possible from consuming these products made with rBGH treated milk." The EU has already banned rBGH, but this policy comes up for review later this year. The US government has warned that they will file for damages under the WTO if the EU continues to ban Monsanto's rBGH. * Australian trade authorities announced on Jan. 8, the largest shipment of canola (rapeseed) ever exported from Australia. The $16.5 million dollar shipment is bound for oilseed crushing plants in Europe. According to Graham Lawrence, managing director of the New South Wales Grains Board, "Europe has moved to become a major buyer this year because Australia is the only country to guarantee non-genetic modified canola." Canada has lost $300-400 million in canola sales to Europe over the last year because government authorities have followed the US model of co-mingling GE and non-GE grains. This year over 50% of Canada's 13.4 million acres of canola are genetically engineered. * The mid-January 1999 issue of the California Farmer magazine reports that Bt resistance has emerged among pink bollworms, a major cotton pest, in Arizona cotton fields Biotech critics have warned for years that genetically engineered Bt crops will cause major crop pests to develop resistance to Bt, thereby destroying the usefulness of the world's most important natural biopesticide. * On Jan. 14 Canadian government officials announced that they were not going to allow Monsanto's controversial recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH or rBST) to be injected into Canada's dairy cows. The ruling came after nine years of heavy lobbying by Monsanto and a major nationwide debate. Although the Canadian government and the media stressed that the permanent ban on rBGH was based primarily on animal health concerns, the data posted on their web site by the Canadian scientists who reviewed the drug made it clear that human health hazards were also a consideration, namely increased antibiotic residues and elevated levels of a potent human growth hormone factor and cancer promoter called IGF-1 found in rBGH-derived milk and dairy products. (For further information on the hazards of rBGH, see and ) * * On Jan. 22, the St. Louis Post Dispatch reported that financial difficulties were forcing Monsanto to slash 1700 employees from its global workforce of 28,000. As indicated in previous Food Bytes, Monsanto now finds itself strapped for cash in the wake of last fall's failed merger with the American Home Products Corp. Monsanto's recent aggressive multi-billion dollar acquisitions of seed companies, research labs, and grain trading operations have increased their power and control over world markets, but have drastically reduced their available capital and lowered their stock values, leaving them potentially vulnerable to an unfriendly takeover by Dupont or Dow or another mega-corporation. Wall Street investment analyst William Fiala told the St. Louis Post Dispatch, "It seems like they (Monsanto) bit off more than they could chew after the merger collapsed. They are taking a risk that they could cut too deep in terms of personnel or could sell things out of necessity that are still good investments. Their debt is beyond Monsanto's comfort level and beyond most analysts' comfort level." * * Almost 200 cotton farmers in Georgia, Florida, and North Carolina are suing Monsanto for damages after crop failures of Monsanto's Bt and Roundup Ready cotton seeds, according to a news story in the Augusta (Georgia) Chronicle on Jan. 25. In a separate lawsuit 25 cotton farmers in Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, and Louisiana are suing Monsanto for fraud and misrepresentation--also in regard to Bt cotton crop failures. * * On Feb. 5, Carrefour, France's largest supermarket chain, announced that they were taking all genetically engineered foods off their shelves. A representative from Greenpeace France, Arnaud Apoteker, told anti-biotech activists at an conference in Cuernavaca, Mexico on Feb. 7 that Greenpeace and their allies were planning on driving all GE foods and crops out of France by the end of next year. * * On Feb. 12 front-page headline stories in the British press revealed that Dr. Arpad Pusztai's explosive research findings on the potential human health dangers of genetically engineered potatoes--first aired in the UK media last August--had been verified by a panel of 20 international scientists. Dr. Pusztai, a world renowned researcher on plant lectins, was fired last August from the government-funded Rowett Institute in Scotland, under very suspicious circumstances, shortly after he went public with research indicating that laboratory rats fed genetically engineered potatoes had suffered significant damage to their immune systems, thymuses, kidneys, spleens, and guts. According to press reports, Pusztai's firing and the ensuing scientific coverup by the UK government were a direct consequence of ongoing White House pressure on Tony Blair to keep the door open to Monsanto and other biotech companies to market and grow GE products in Britain and across the EU. * When Dr. Pusztai fed conventional potatoes and snowdrop lectin (GNA) to rats, no damage occurred. But when Pusztai fed the rats an equivalent amount of potatoes which were gene-spliced with the snowdrop lectin, significant and startling damage became quickly evident. Despite deliberately false U.K. government allegations that Dr. Pusztai's experiments were purely theoretical, a number of biotech companies are currently carrying out similar lab and field tests on gene-spliced potatoes, rapeseed, rice, and cabbage, calculating that snowdrop-spliced food crops will repel crop pests. * Perhaps even more alarming than Pusztai's mutant potatoes, scientists have subsequently pointed out that Bt (Bacillus thuringiensis), a gene routinely spliced into millions of acres of US corn, cotton, and potatoes is now considered to be a form of lectin. And more alarming yet, another scientist, Dr. Stanley Ewen, said that a commonly used vector or production aid in gene-splicing, the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus, may have caused serious damage to the stomach and internal organs of the rats in Pusztai's study. If the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus (CaMV) is confirmed as being hazardous to mammals, this could literally become the "Chernobyl of Biotech"--since Roundup Ready soybeans, Bt corn, and most other GE crops are produced using the CaMV as a genetic splicing vector. * On Feb. 13, eight days after Carrefour's announcement in Paris, a major British supermarket chain, Asda, announced that they were going to remove all genetically engineered ingredients from their own-brand goods. Asda's move comes in the wake of similar moves by other UK retail chains, including Iceland and Marks and Spencer. As Sheila McKechnie of the UK Consumers Association pointed out in the Daily Mail newspaper on Feb. 11, grocery chains banning GE foods like Carrefour will now "have an enormous competitive advantage" in the marketplace. * Bloomberg News reported on February 13 that EU authorities had rejected Monsanto's request to grow GE Roundup Ready and Bollgard Bt cotton plants in Europe. Two days earlier the European Parliament voted to tighten GE regulations, demanding that GE corporations be compelled to purchase liability insurance to cover any and all damages resulting from gene-altered crops or foods. The Parliament also demanded stricter measures for the prevention of gene transfers from GMOs to other crops or wild species, as well as a ban on antibiotic-resistance marker genes in genetic crops. * On February 18, an international coalition of public interest organizations, led by attorneys from the Center for Food Safety (Food Bytes and the Campaign for Food Safety are affiliated with the CFS) filed a lawsuit in Federal District Court in Washington, D.C. to have all Bt crops taken off of the market because of the hazards they pose to the environment and public health. The February 18 Bt lawsuit was announced at a well-attended press conference in Washington, and generated significant coverage in the US press. Last May (see Food Bytes #13) the Center for Food Safety sued the FDA to have all genetically engineered foods taken off the market on the grounds that they are neither properly labeled nor safety-tested, and that lack of mandatory labeling illegally restricts the freedom of choice of those who would choose--on religious or ethical grounds--to avoid GE foods. * "Genetically engineered crops are a threat to farmers, consumers, and the environment," said Charles Margulis, a spokesperson for Greenpeace, one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit. Joseph Mendelson, Legal Director of the Center for Food Safety stated, "EPA has shown a blatant disregard for federal law and its own regulations by approving Bt crops without fully assessing their environmental safety. Their continuing failure to regulate this untested technology forces us to turn to the courts for protection." For further information on these lawsuits see * On Feb. 23, the Daily Mail newspaper in the UK reported that three of Britain's fast-food giants--McDonald's, Burger King, and Kentucky Fried Chicken--are responding to customer pressure by eliminating genetically engineered soya and corn ingredients from their menus. According to McDonald's spokesperson Jackie Graveny: "Our aim is to have McDonald's GM (genetically modified) free as soon as possible." Similarly Burger King stated: "The company is set to ban GM food as soon as possible." In a related development the Agriculture Minister in the UK, Nick Brown, announced on Jan. 31 that UK restaurants will soon be required to start labeling "meals which contain certain types of genetically modified food." * With more and more major food retailers, restaurants, and processors in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France, Scandinavia, the UK, and other nations going "GE-free" a tremendous market now exists for certified "non-GE" and organic products. This makes it increasingly difficult for governments such as the US, Canada, and Brazil to keep telling farmers that their "no labeling and no segregation" policies on co-mingling GE and non-GE grains and crops make good economic sense. * On Feb. 23 India's Supreme Court ruled that all field trials of Monsanto's genetically engineered Bt Cotton must be halted. The court ruling and temporary legal injunction came in response to a legal petition filed by veteran Indian activist Dr. Vandana Shiva, director of the Research Foundation for Science, Technology and Ecology. According to Dr. Shiva, "This case does not merely have national significance, it has international significance. Around the world scientists, environmentalists, consumer groups and farmers are calling for a moratorium on commercial releases of genetically engineered crops because of growing evidence of ecological hazards and threats to food safety." The court ruling comes in the wake of months of protests by Indian farmers and consumers, many of whom have organized themselves into a Monsanto "Quit India" movement. Dr. Shiva and other activists brought together over 100 grassroots organizations in Hyderabad on Jan. 7 to launch a nationwide campaign against Monsanto. * A major backlash has developed against the United States and major transnational biotech corporations after an international Biosafety Protocol treaty was sabotaged in Cartagena, Colombia. The Biosafety Protocol, supported by over 135 nations and public interest groups worldwide, would have tightened regulations on the international transfer and trade of genetically engineered seeds, grains, and foods. In a vote on Feb. 24 the US and five of its allies, the so-called "Miami Group" (Canada, Australia, Argentina, Uruguay, and Chile) managed to prevent the passage of the internationally binding treaty. As US biosafety expert Beth Burrows of the Edmonds Institute told the New York Times, "There was no moral high ground here (on the part of the US). There was no scientific higher ground. It was just cheap power politics." According to the Financial Times of London and other EU sources, the US' bully boy tactics at the Biosafety Protocol meetings will only serve to exacerbate anti-biotech feelings in Europe. A recent statement by George Monbiot in the London Guardian (Feb. 19) aptly sums up the mood of EU consumers: "Food scares happen... because people feel they have no control over what they eat. Our decisions are made for us by invisible and unaccountable corporations." * On Feb. 25 a group of US activists in San Francisco calling themselves fabRAGE (Fabulous Resistance Against Genetic Engineering) stripped off their clothes and disrupted a conference panel on genetically engineered cotton featuring a speaker from the Monsanto Corporation. "We'd rather go naked than wear genetically modified cotton!" shouted Biogrrl, a fashion diva at the event, as half a dozen activists charged through the room and stripped off their biohazglam gowns, chanting: "We don't want it, won't buy it, and won't wear it. Super Gene Girl, in a biohazard suit shouted, "Gene-spliced cotton is not sustainable!" Monsanto representatives appeared apoplectic in the face of the action. * On Feb. 27 Greenpeace activists in Mexico City hung banners protesting "Genetic Imperialism" and the US sabotage of the Biosafety Protocol on a historic monument, the Angel of Independence, in the center of the city. Police arrested the demonstrators, but the banner-hanging generated significant coverage in the Mexican media, where until recently there has been very little discussion of the GE foods controversy. * On March 2 the Reuters news agency reported that the UK's Advertising Standards Authority wil soon "censure" Monsanto for a misleading series of ads on the safety of genetically engineered foods which appeared last year in the British press. _____________________ Ronnie Cummins is National Director of the Pure Food Campaign (PFC) http://www.purefood.org a non-profit, public interest organization dedicated to building a healthy, safe, and sustainable system of food production and consumption in the U.S. and the world. The PFC's primary strategy is to help build a national and international consumer/farmer/labor/progressive retailer boycott of genetically engineered and chemically contaminated foods and crops. To subscribe to the monthly electronic newsletter, Food Bytes, send an email message to: < majordomo@mr.net > with the simple message: subscribe pure-food-action _________________________________________________________________ Email, Opinions & Discussion If you have any thoughts on this or would like to contribute to an ongoing discussion in the E-mail, Opinions & Discussion column click here to send e-mail to publish@cts.com. _______________________________ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The address for any administrative command like unsubscribe, subscribe or help is: GENTECH-REQUEST@gen.free.de The searchable WWW list archive is available at http://gen.free.de/archives.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 11:22:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21891 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12726 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:18:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA12707 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:18:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06910 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:18:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA17189 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:18:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36ED25A0.B12C5FAB@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:22:08 -0500 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Prison labor, free labor References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 I've been watching this thread with much interest. Many of you have some very good points. I live (and work/go to school) in North Carolina, where prison labor is used in many different ways. Here prisoners are only allowed to work for the state, which comes in handy when I need to harvest tomatoes at one of the two research stations I did research on. As for how the prisoners are compensated, the way it was explained to me (by a prisoner) is that there are several levels, based on security risk. Level five prisoners make ~$0.75 a day. These are prisoners often seen in "chain gangs," at least 2 guards, with shotguns, feet shackled, etc. There are gradations to level 1. A prisoner must work his way up (get promoted if you will) to a level 1. These prisoners make ~$5.00 per day. They are more like work-release prisoners, and several of the ones I've worked with, I wouldn't hesitate to hire. They are mainly hard workers, many of whom can operate heavy equipment expertly. While I don't believe prisoners should be forced to work (and I don't believe _any_ of the prisoners in North Carolina are forced to participate), I also don't think that these people should be able to sit in an air-conditioned cell and watch TV all day. It costs a large amount of money for each prisoner (I can't remember the latest figure I heard, but I'm sure it was more than $30,000 a year) to house, clothe, and feed them. By allowing them to work (that's right allowing them to _choose_ to work or not to work) we can offset some of those costs, save money for the state in other ways (i.e. our tax dollars), and possibly provide a work ethic for someone who didn't have one. One more factor. Prison laborers are often released early (either by through early parole, or because pay was not only $5.00 a day, but also a day off the sentence). By the way, in 1997, we harvested approximately 2000 lbs of organically-grown processing tomatoes (made a great sauce). Since they were produced at a State-owned research station, we couldn't sell them. Several hundred pounds went to the state prison where several of the inmates were housed. I realize that this probably only adds fuel to the fire, and hopefully everyone will read this far before getting generally annoyed at a grad student with an attitude. I am opposed to prison labor being used by the general public or corporations. I do believe, however, that prisoners should be allowed to work for the state, and contribute to their own room and board. Last year, after a hurricane, level 1 prisoners were sent to farms to set up tobacco plants. I'm sure they cost less than the National Guard. . .Just my two cents worth. . . (okay. . .maybe a buck's worth). . .Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Student Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 12:53:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25630 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:53:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08037 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:56:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07978 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from server1.mich.com (IDENT:root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09555 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:56:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [207.74.178.57] (pm002-017.dialip.mich.com [207.74.178.81]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17541 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:56:10 -0500 X-Sender: donald@mail.mich.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:58:57 -0500 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: donald@mich.com (Donald E Davison) Subject: Big Business into Organic Farming Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 ------------ Forwarded text ------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:27:24 +0100 To: "English edition dispatch" From: Le Monde diplomatique Subject: Le Monde diplomatique - March 1999 Sender: LE MONDE DIPLOMATIQUE _________________________________________________________________ Le Monde diplomatique english edition March 1999 ORGANIC FOOD: LIES AND PROFITS Bio business is big business * by Chantal Le Noallec What is the future for suppliers of organic produce now that the big marketing and distribution companies are moving in? Will they survive the shock? As a result of the "mad cow disease" panic, organic farming is enjoying an unprecedented boom. Consumer demand has never been so strong. The major retail stores are filling more and more of their shelves with organic produce. Organic shops and supermarkets - or at least claiming to be organic - are shooting up everywhere. However, now that organic farming is coming into its own and is also receiving subsidies, it has become a juicy market niche ripe for exploitation. Faced with the encroachment of big business, the organic lobby seems uncertain which way to turn. http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/en/1999/03/16bio.html Translated by Ed Emery - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Joke: God created the mule and told him: "You will be mule, working constantly from dusk to dawn, carrying heavy loads on your back. You will eat grass and you will lack intelligence. You will live for 50 years." The mule answered: "To live like this for 50 years is too much. Please, give me no more than 20." And it was so. Then God created the dog and told him: "You will hold vigilance over the dwellings of Man, to whom you will be his greatest companion. You will eat his table scraps and live for 25 years." And the dog responded: "Lord, to live 25 years as a dog is too much. Please, no more than 10 years." And it was so. God then created the monkey and told him: "You are the monkey. You will swing from tree to tree, acting like an idiot. You will be funny, and you shall live for 20 years." And the monkey responded: "Lord, to live 20 years as the clown of the world is too much. Please, Lord, give me no more than 10 years." And it was so. Finally, God created Man and told him: "You are Man, the only rational being that walks the earth. You will use your intelligence to have mastery over the creatures of the world. You will dominate the earth and live for 20 years." And the man responded: "Lord, to be Man for only 20 years is too little. Please, Lord, give me the 30 years the mule refused, the 15 years the dog refused, and the 10 years the monkey rejected." And it was so. And God made Man to live 30 years as a man, then marry and live 20 years like a mule working and carrying heavy loads on his back. Then, he is to have children and live 15 years as a dog, guarding his house and eating leftovers after they empty the pantry; then, in his old age, to live 10 years as a monkey, acting like a fool to amuse his grandchildren. And it was so. *** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 13:01:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25947 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:01:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08445 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:57:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08370 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp190.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.190]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08295 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:56:53 -0500 Message-ID: <36ED3C9D.3076E9E5@greatbridge.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:00:13 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: Care: Support Care: Make a Donation Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C143C241A5F805C4522A355B" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C143C241A5F805C4522A355B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Below is the on-line site for CARE if anyone is interested sasha http://www.care.org/support/donation.html --------------C143C241A5F805C4522A355B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="donation.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="donation.html" Content-Base: "http://www.care.org/support/donation.h tml" Care: Support Care: Make a Donation
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--------------C143C241A5F805C4522A355B-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 13:20:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26754 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:20:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27703 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:29:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27670 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:29:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from catena.soils.umn.edu (root@catena.soils.umn.edu [128.101.77.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10119 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:29:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from S431B.soils.umn.edu (x160-75.soils.umn.edu [134.84.160.75]) by catena.soils.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27333 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:29:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990315172904.00f5f0ec@soils.umn.edu> X-Sender: alewand@soils.umn.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:29:04 -0600 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Ann Lewandowski Subject: Re: nitrogen scavenging plants Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 ARS researchers at the University of Minnestoa, and an environmental remediation company have been using non-nodulating alfalfa to clean up an anyhdrous ammonia spill from a rail accident in North Dakota. They are using a variety called Ineffective Agate. For information, see the magazine article in the February/March 1998 issue of Soil and Groundwater Cleanup, p.11. Or contact Michael Russelle (USDA-ARS) at the University of Minnesota. -Ann Lewandowski At 07:51 PM 3/13/99 -0700, you wrote: >Dear SANETers: > I recall someone looking for a non-nodulating alfalfa for >scavenging excess nitrogen. There was much discussion about why one >would want such a plant but don't remember any such alfalfa being >reported. I just ran across a statement in Peaceful Valley's catalog >description for TriosTriticale (Triticum X Secale) which is described as >having an aggressive root system: "Use this crop to uptake excess >nitrogen." Maybe this would do the job. >--Edna > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ______________________________________________ Ann M. Lewandowski NRCS Soil Quality Institute Department of Soil, Water, and Climate 1991 Upper Buford Circle University of Minnesota St. Paul, MN 55108-6028 alewand@soils.umn.edu 612-624-6765 fax: 612-625-2208 ______________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 16:05:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02654 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:05:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA00824 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:09:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA00737 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:08:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00359 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:14:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03741 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:08:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:08:53 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Rampaging Rustics! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 Rampaging Rustics! By David Ivins >From the New York Times In case you city dwellers and suburbanites haven't noticed, be warned: the countryside is slowly creeping up on you. Like a rapidly growing weed that smothers everything in its path, rural areas are encroaching on our cities and suburbs, and no one -- not our elected officials, public interest groups or citizens -- is doing anything to stop this rural sprawl. In countless confrontations, rural extremists are preventing businesses from building industrial parks, shopping malls, condominiums, single-family homes, theme parks, airports and sports arenas. They are even fighting the construction of new highways! What would the country be without the network of freeways and parkways linking our cities, suburbs, shopping malls, theme parks and sports arenas? Rural sprawl began quietly with the infiltration, in ever-increasing numbers, of wildlife -- squirrels, rabbits, songbirds and other small, cuddly, apparently innocuous creatures -- into our suburbs and the fringes of our major cities. Now it seems that these small animals were only the advance guard of a cunningly planned invasion that also includes deer, coyotes, beavers, mountain lions, bears and other despoilers of our cherished suburban and urban habitats. Areas that otherwise would be given over to job creation and highly profitable logging, strip mining and oil drilling are being expropriated by wild animals, which are inherently valueless since they contribute nothing to our economy. Once these beasts establish themselves, shielded by hellbent wildlife-protection groups and misguided politicians from Al Gore to Christie Todd Whitman, they can never be dislodged. But these animals are only the unwitting servants of the quaint-seeming "country folk" whose diabolical plan is to eradicate or make unlivable our suburbs and cities by covering our streets, sidewalks and highways with grass, shrubbery and trees. They want to inundate shopping malls and sports arenas with lakes, ponds and streams; replace our condo developments with "picturesque" villages and hamlets and our suburban tract homes with drafty, old-fashioned farmhouses. The ultimate goal of these fanatical rustics is to return all of us to lives of unsophisticated rural primitivism. Is this the kind of life we want to lead? Fight rural sprawl now, before it's too late! David Ivins is a freelance writer. Copyright 1999 The New York Times 2/25/99 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:01:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04498 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:01:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA13929 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:29:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA13856 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:29:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14174 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:29:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA10674 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:29:10 -0600 Message-Id: <199903152029.OAA10674@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:28:59 -0500 Subject: OP poisoning/Fresno Co./ProMED X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you pesticide watchers. From the ProMED list. peace mgs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ORGANOPHOSPHATE PESTICIDE POISONING - USA (CALIFORNIA) ********************************************************** A ProMED-mail post [This is posted to emphasize that it is not only the Third World that suffers pesticide poisoning problems - Mod.JW] Date: Sat 13 Mar 1999 From: ProMED-mail Source: CDC MMWR February 19, 1999 / 48(06);113-116 [edited] Farm Worker Illness Following Exposure to Carbofuran and Other Pesticides -- Fresno County, California, 1998 In California, suspected pesticide-related illnesses and suspected work-related illnesses and injuries are reportable conditions. On July 31, 1998, the Occupational Health Branch of the California Department of Health Services (CDHS) received a report from the California Department of Pesticide Regulation (CDPR) of a pesticide exposure incident in Fresno County involving 34 farm workers. CDHS investigated this incident by reviewing medical records of the 34 workers and interviewing 29. The findings indicated that the workers became ill after early reentry into a cotton field that had been sprayed with a cholinesterase-inhibiting carbamate pesticide. On July 31 at 4 a.m., a cotton field was sprayed aerially with a solution containing as active ingredients 0.26% carbofuran (n-methyl carbamate), 0.05% abamectin (macrolytic lactone), and 0.05% mepiquat chloride (growth regulator). Although carbofuran, when used on cotton, has a restricted entry interval (REI) ** of 48 hours and requires both posting of treated fields and oral notification of workers, neither warning was provided. At 6 a.m., the 34 workers (age range: 13-64 years; median: 31 years) entered the field to complete weeding begun the previous day. After weeding for approximately 4 hours, the workers were transported to a second field 2-1/2 miles away that had been sprayed 2 days earlier with a solution containing cyfluthrin (synthetic pyrethroid), diclofol (organochlorine), and mepiquat chloride. The REI for these pesticides is 12 hours. Within approximately 1/2 hour of entering the second field, the workers began feeling ill and stopped working. Symptoms most commonly reported by the 34 farm workers were nausea (97%), headache (94%), eye irritation (85%), muscle weakness (82%), tearing (68%), vomiting (79%), and salivation (56%); the most commonly observed signs were bradycardia (21%), diaphoresis (15%), and miosis (pupillary constriction) (12%). Thirty (88%) workers were transported immediately to a medical clinic; the other four went home, showered, and sought medical care 3-17 days later. All workers evaluated at the clinic were decontaminated by clothing removal and showering and were sent to six area hospitals. Twenty-nine were evaluated and released the same day. One worker was hospitalized overnight for new-onset atrial fibrillation. All workers received hospital treatment for symptoms, and most (28 {82%}) lost at least 1 day of work. - -- **No worker without prescribed protective clothing should enter a treated area to perform a hand labor task until the REI expires. The length of the REI depends on the specific pesticide but generally can be no less than 12 hours. [MMWR] Editorial Note - -------------------------------- Pesticide exposure can cause serious acute illness among farm workers. In the incident described in this report, workers entered a field well before the end of a label-specified REI and incurred pesticide exposure that resulted in moderately severe illness (as defined by the American Association of Poison Control Centers {1}). The incident demonstrates that 1) posted and oral warnings based on the REI are necessary to prevent illness among workers performing hand labor in fields recently treated with pesticides and 2) failure to adhere to an REI can result in substantial morbidity among exposed workers. Because this incident demonstrates that sole reliance on these control measures may be inadequate, the substitution of safer, less toxic alternative pesticides should be adopted when feasible. Prompt, appropriate medical attention, including decontamination by clothing removal and showering, probably prevented more acute illness in this incident. However, some exposed workers went home before decontamination, increasing the potential for secondary contamination of children and other family members. Secondary contamination can be reduced by developing in advance appropriate procedures for decontaminating clothing, homes, and vehicles (2). Illnesses among family members exposed to the workers were not reported. Although the incident involved exposure to several pesticides, the agent with the greatest acute systemic toxicity is the broad-spectrum insecticide/nematocide carbofuran. Carbofuran exposure was the probable cause of illness based on biologic evidence (foliage and clothing samples and urine metabolites), signs and symptoms of cholinergic excess (voluntary and involuntary muscle movement, exocrine gland overactivity, and central nervous system effects), and laboratory evidence of cholinesterase depression. Although atrial fibrillation has been reported with other cholinesterase-inhibiting pesticides (3), this is the first report following carbofuran exposure. In 1995, 248,000 lbs of cholinesterase-inhibiting carbamate pesticide were used in California, primarily on alfafa, rice, table and wine grapes, and cotton (4). During 1995, carbamate pesticides composed 1.8%, by weight, of all pesticides used and alone caused 30 (1.9%) of pesticide-related illnesses reported to CDPR. Clinical diagnosis of carbamate toxicity is based primarily on known or suspected history of carbamate use and presence of cholinergic symptoms and signs (5). Isolated cases may be less recognizable, resulting in delays in diagnosis and treatment. Because cholinesterase inhibition by carbamates is rapidly reversible, cholinesterase testing may be unreliable in diagnosing carbamate poisoning. The incident described in this report also illustrates the importance of limiting the time between cholinesterase collection and analysis, placing specimens on ice, and using the most appropriate analytic techniques to conduct cholinesterase assays (6). Measurement of urinary metabolites may be useful to confirm suspected carbamate-related illness, but because this assay is highly chemical-specific and is performed only by certain reference laboratories, it is not a practical tool for most clinicians. Treatment of carbamate poisoning includes decontamination, supportive care, and the use of atropine in severe exposures. References - ---------------- 1.Litovitz TL, Smilkstein M, Felberg L, Klein-Schwartz W, Berlin R, Morgan JL. 1996 annual report of the American Association of Poison Control Centers Toxic Exposure Surveillance System. Am J Emerg Med 1997;15:447-500. 2.Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. Managing hazardous materials incidents. Vol. I-II. Atlanta, Georgia: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, CDC, 1992. 3.O'Malley MA. Systemic illnesses associated with exposure to Mevinphos in California, 1982-1989. Sacramento, California: California Department of Pesticide Regulation, California Environmental Protection Agency, 1992. 4.California Department of Pesticide Regulation. Pesticide use report, 1995. Sacramento, California: California Department of Pesticide Regulation, California Environmental Protection Agency, 1996. 5.World Health Organization. Carbamate pesticides: a general introduction. Environmental Health Criteria 64. Geneva, Switzerland: World Health Organization, 1986:90. 6.Wilson BW, Sanborn JR, O'Malley MA, Henderson JD, Billitti JR. Monitoring the pesticide exposed worker. Occup Med: State of the Art Reviews 1997;12:347-63. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis: Anarcho-syndicalism is a way of *preserving* freedom! His Wife: Oh, Dennis, *forget* about freedom! We 'aven't got enough mud! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:21:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05136 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:21:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09982 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:17:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from renoir1.spidernet.net (renoir1.spidernet.net [194.154.128.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09969 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:17:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail0.spidernet.net by renoir1.spidernet.net (ElectricMail-MESSAGE-2.0-GAMMA) id XAA00977; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:23:53 +0200 Received: from spidernet.com.cy (nic-c53s01-l111.spidernet.net [194.154.136.239]) by mail0.spidernet.net (ElectricMail-MESSAGE-2.0-GAMMA-SSM1.1-ANTISPAM) id XAA27694; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:18:52 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <36ECCFB7.260C2ABB@spidernet.com.cy> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:15:35 +0200 From: Lee Row X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: [Fwd: ECON: Small farmers' seed rights up for grabs?] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: ECON: Small farmers' seed rights up for grabs? Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 21:43:04 -0500 From: "Kelly J. Morris" Reply-To: "Kelly J. Morris" To: TOGO-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM COTONOU, (Mar. 5) IPS - Entering the global economy, some African researchers say, calls for trade-offs, and Francophone nations recently had no trouble trading small farmers' rights to store and exchange seed. Francophone members of the African Organization of Intellectual Property (OAPI) put their signatures to the 1991 Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants Convention (UPOV 91) in the Central African capital of Bangui. Inventors of new crops now have their discoveries protected in the OAPI countries as per the terms of UPOV 91. Adopted in Paris in 1961, this Convention has been amended several times, but most members follow its 1978 Convention which is widely interpreted by governments to allow farmers to save and exchange seed. But UPOV's 1991 Convention assumes that farmers cannot save seed unless governments permit specific exceptions, and up until the signing last week by the OAPI countries, only 11 developed countries had adopted the 1991 Convention. The Francophone members of the OAPI are Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central Africa Republic, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Gabon, Guinea, Cote d'Ivoire, Niger, Mali, Mauritania, Senegal and Togo. While the Canadian-based International Rural Advancement Foundation (RAFI) believes that African countries may have been pushed too quickly into the arms of a western-dominated intellectual property cartel, Francois Adande of Benin says Africa must create "trust" that it can protect intellectual property rights. Adande, head of judicial and trademark services at Benin's National Center of Industrial Property (CENAPI), believes that the UPOV Convention is important in so far as it protects inventions coming from Western countries that are much more able and equipped in research, especially in genetic engineering. "Globalization is scaring the whole world. Those who have something are scared. Infringements are occurring more and more, and if Western inventions are not protected, they will be investing in research at a loss," Adande says. Africa, he continues, can only gain by creating trust in its ability to protect acquired crops. "But if one does not create that trust, there will not be any kind of technological transfer, since each would guard their own secret and our situation would improve much more slowly." Other Francophone African experts also are not so alarmed by RAFI's concern that the more than 20 million small farmers in the Francophone African nations would have no right to store and exchange seeds, because of their governments' signing UPOV 91. The 1991 Convention, argues Badiou Ouattara, head of a crop research centre in Burkina Faso, "has nothing to do with seed supply for farmers. "It's like a musician that writes music. The whole world can buy a tape, but it is registered internationally under the composer's name," Ouattara continues. Hien Mathieu, head of the Intellectual Property Services in the Ministry of Commerce, Industry, and Crafts of Burkina Faso, oh the other hand, says that while African nations must be cautious in negotiations on intellectual property rights, globalization requires trade offs. "If after investment-financed research someone finds varieties of millet or corn (suitable) for the Sahel, they must be compensated for their discovery," Hien says. "Our countries must make the necessary arrangements and adjustments, because globalization is here. We cannot afford to marginalise ourselves," Hien adds. "We need a rational policy on research. If the Europeans come to do research, you have to be a partner to them so they do not take and protect everything over there." Hien adds that the protection, in this case UPOV 91, does not mean that no one else can use "your product", but that whoever has developed a crop can use it or permit others to use it. Bassane Jean Toe in Burkina Faso's Ministry of Agriculture says that adding the Francophone African nation's signatures to UPOV 91 is like adding a "voice of reason." "It's a necessity. African nations have ample knowledge of UPOV, so they have nothing to worry about," Toe says. ***************************************************************************** This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission of the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship, and research under the "Fair Use" provisions of U.S. Government copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner. The sender does not vouch for the accuracy of the content of the message, which is the sole responsibility of the copyright holder. ****************************************************************************** ~~~~~~~ TOGO-L - THE FRIENDS OF TOGO DISCUSSION GROUP ~~~~~~~ Too much mail every day? Send mail to: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM In the body of the message, type: SET TOGO-L DIGEST Sign off the List? 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:26:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05341 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:26:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00784 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:53:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00756 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:53:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA16815 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:53:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.137] (term5-9.vta.west.net [205.254.241.137]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23411 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:51:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:52:47 -0700 To: From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: EPA Extends Comment Period on Proposed Rule to Expand Chemical Right-to-Know Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 EPA Extends Comment Period on Proposed Rule to Expand Chemical Right-to-Know On January 5, 1999, the EPA issued a proposed rule to lower the reporting thresholds and to add certain persistent bioaccumulative toxic chemicals to the Toxics Release Inventory. This proposed action will potentially increase reporting about the public's Chemical Right-to-Know by 25 percent. In response to several requests, the EPA is extending the comment period on this proposed rule by 30 days. The EPA has determined that extending the comment period is appropriate and that it will not cause a significant delay in the evaluation of the proposed rule. The comment period was scheduled to close on March 8, 1999; it will now close on April 7, 1999. Written comments must be received by the EPA on or before April 7, 1999. Comments may be submitted by mail, electronically, or in person. For further information contact Daniel R. Bushman, Petitions Coordinator, 202-260-3882, e-mail: bushman.daniel@epamail.epa.gov. For specific information on the proposed rule or for more information Community Right-to-Know, contact the Environmental Protection Agency, Mail Code 5101, 401 M St., SW., Washington, DC 20460. You may also call toll free: 1-800-535-0202, and in Virginia and Alaska call: 703-412-9877 or call toll free TDD: 1-800-553-7672. Electronic copies of this document and the January 5, 1999, proposed rule can be obtained from the EPA Internet Home Page at http://www.epa.gov/ . On the Home Page select "Laws and Regulations" and then look up the entry for this document under the "Federal Register - Environmental Documents." You can also go directly to the "Federal Register" listings at: http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:28:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05417 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00803 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:53:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00793 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:53:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA16829 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:53:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.137] (term5-9.vta.west.net [205.254.241.137]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23460 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:51:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:52:54 -0700 To: From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: EU Scientific Committee decides against rBGH Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 Conclusions and Recommendations of the Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Animal Welfare on the Animal Welfare Aspects of the Use of Bovine Somatotrophin (Adopted 10 March 1999) Full text is on website http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg24/health/sc/scah/out21_en.html General conclusion BST is used to increase milk yield, often in already high-producing cows. BST administration causes substantially and very significantly poorer welfare because of increased foot disorders, mastitis, reproductive disorders and other production related diseases. These are problems which would not occur if BST were not used and often results in unnecessary pain, suffering and distress. If milk yields were achieved by other means which resulted in the health disorders and other welfare problems described above, these means would not be acceptable. The injection of BST and its repetition every 14 days also causes localised swellings which are likely to result in discomfort and hence some poor welfare. Recommendation BST use causes a substantial increase in levels of foot problems and mastitis and leads to injection site reactions in dairy cows. These conditions, especially the first two, are painful and debilitating, leading to significantly poorer welfare in the treated animals. Therefore from the point of view of animal welfare, including health, the Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Animal Welfare is of the opinion that BST should not be used in dairy cows. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:31:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05507 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:31:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA21554 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:38:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21513 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA16417 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:38:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA14004; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:23:44 -0600 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xma006557; Mon, 15 Mar 99 11:18:33 -0600 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:18:33 -0600 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC025@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Jane Sooby'" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: answers to simple-minded question Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:18:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 Jane, Paul said > Antibiotics are used in livestock for a higher feed efficiency. > The livestock have a better rate of gain meaning the farmer will > not have to feed the animals as long. Jane said > To use antibiotics as weight gaining substances seems bizarre > to me. If the payoff is that the antibiotics we need to fight > infection in humans are losing their effectiveness, is this a > choice our society wants to make? When you put it like that, of course not. But what do you think of use of classes of antibiotics that cannot, or for some reason, will not be used in human disease control? Also, there are apparently other (non-antibiotic) ways to manipulate intestinal flora, such as special strains of bacteria, and foods that promote their growth. A lot of work is underway on this subject. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:32:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05535 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:32:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA28849 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:47:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.rodaleinst.org (mailhost.rodaleinst.org [205.147.214.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28833 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:47:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from kmaure.rodaleinst.org ([205.147.214.43]) by mailhost.rodaleinst.org (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA8567 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:41:04 -0500 Received: by kmaure.rodaleinst.org with Microsoft Mail id <01BE6F03.D3242920@kmaure.rodaleinst.org>; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:49:43 -0500 Message-ID: <01BE6F03.D3242920@kmaure.rodaleinst.org> From: Laura Gurk To: "'sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Job posting Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:49:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA28834 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 Job Opportunity: Please post Tour Guide Internship Do you enjoy working with children and adults? Do you enjoy spending time outdoors in a rural farm setting? If you answered "yes" to these questions, then an internship at The Rodale Institute Experimental Farm is waiting for you. There are intern position(s) currently available to become a Rodale Institute tour guide from May 1st through October 31st. Learn about organic gardening and farming first-hand, while giving tours of the gardens and farm to children, youth and adult groups. Flexible working hours (approx. 25 hours/week) in a Tuesday-Saturday work schedule. A willingness to learn and a bright, cheery attitude is all that is required to become part of The Rodale Institute family. To apply: Send a resume to: Rodale Institute Experimental Farm, c/o Tour Guide Internship, 611 Siegfriedale Rd. Kutztown, PA 19530; fax to: (610)683-9175; or email: Lgurk@rodaleinst.org. The Rodale Institute is located in Kutztown, Pennsylvania which is between Allentown and Reading, PA. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 05:28:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA26107 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:28:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA26057 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:32:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA25868 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:32:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA26370 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 04:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from markbert ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.56) with SMTP id 543; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:36:33 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990316033449.030ebb80@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:34:49 -0600 To: Gary Elliott , Shoshanah Inwood From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: Re: Prison labor, free labor Cc: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, iffs@nal.usda.com, wrdc@execpc.com, dkaufman@discover-net.net, rlwills@execpc.com, fgoodman@mwt.net, cclp@mwci.net, pln2@wtrt.net, klemme@aae.wisc.edu, pjdietma@facstaff.wisc.edu, stevenson@aae.wisc.edu, mister3d@pbi.net, yolanda.p.cruz@oberlin.edu, Marylee Haughwout , Jenna Hill In-Reply-To: <36E9ECD2.E8A8AC21@london.skyscape.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 Greetings, Great postings on the prison labor conversation. Thought I might put my two cents worth in the pot on prison labor. First of all this is not the way we build a sustainable society ... locking up young men who applied 100 times for a job at Company "X" on the street and was told he was not qualified, instantly becomes qualified to work in prison for Company "X" when he gets 25 years for possession of crack cocaine ... so much for free enterprise. A little history: Prison industries, using inmate labor to manufacture goods was a booming business right after slavery up to the 1930's. Here in Alabama a lot of the mining was done by contract prison labor (and a lot of those prisoners were enslaves that were picked up on flaky vagrancy laws for the express purpose of creating a prison labor pool). As a matter of fact, entire prison facilities here in Alabama were leased out to private manufactures and farmers so they could use the prisoners for cheap labor (that is documented by a University of Alabama professor, I will have to find the title of the book again... he has great stories and documentation of prison labor practices and conditions during this time period). Any way in in the 1930's the sale of "open market prison made products" was banned by Congress. Labor was crying foul and the man on the street was out of work do to the depression. Fast forward... in 1979 Congress quietly lifted the ban on the interstate transportation and sale of prison made goods providing that they passed the "Private Industry Enhancement Certification Program". Basically this program certifies that inmate workers are paid local prevailing wages(jive talk) and the local work forces is not displaced by prison labor . The largest player in the prison labor game is the mighty Federal Prison Industries ($495.4 million in sales FY 1996) that is a half of billion folks ... serious cash money . Please check out Occupational Training or Slave Labor by David Martin: http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.13/FPI.html You might also want to read "Workfare" And Prison Forced Labor: New Strategies To Reduce Wages by Mark Cook: http://metalab.unc.edu/prism/Nov96/forced.html Tracy Huling, I do agree with you concerning the "bored and angry" phrase. It is trash talking in its purest form. We need to look at the real social and economic consequences of expanding the prison labor work force. We also need to understand true implication when a state like California corrections budget is larger than the entire state budget for higher education. And of course every year more prisons are being build to capitalize on ____________. You fill in the blank. Stan Johnson stanjj@mindspring.com http://www.alarise.org Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org/iatp To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 06:25:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27185 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:25:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA12524 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:43:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com (hil-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.177.137]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA12506 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:43:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id FAA12896 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:42:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:40:13 -0500 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Organic Farming Economics Responce To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199903160542_MC2-6E16-FACE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 In this country, 80 cents of every dollar spent on food is used to get the food from the farm to the eater. Only 20 cents gets to the farmer who spends on average 15 cents on inputs (labor, etc.) It seems that shrinking that 80 percent sector might prove more productive than shrinking the 15 percent one. And, according to USDA, the whole dollar is spent on agriculture-even when it buys Madison Avenue's services, TV time, packaging, supermarket shelf fees, etc. Bill Duesing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 09:36:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01618 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:36:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA03086 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:34:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA03056 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:34:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903161334.IAA03056@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.155] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id ADD381D2007A; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:34:11 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:30:46 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Organic Farming Economics Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:40:13 -0500, BILL DUESING wrote: >In this country, 80 cents of every dollar spent on food is used to get the >food from the farm to the eater. Only 20 cents gets to the farmer who >spends on average 15 cents on inputs (labor, etc.) That's on produce. For commodities it's often 10 cents or less. John Ikerd and Charles Benbrook have each done some excellent work in this domain that is, alas, substantially more discouraging than your numbers. Benbrook has compared the ensemble of US production agriculture to other sectors of the agri-food industry, and the results are not pretty. Farming's aggregate return on gross revenues is 2.1%, compared to Food Service -- 3.4%; Retail Grocery -- 4.6%; Pesticides -- 5.9%; Food Processing -- 7.0%; and Seeds -- 12%. When looking at profits against assets, things are worse yet. Food Service -- 16.1%; Retail Grocery 10.6%; Food Processing -- 9.1%; Pesticides -- 3.9%; Seeds -- 3.7%; and finally, Farming -- a piddling 0.4%. If you adjust Benbrook's profits against assets numbers to account for average equity in those assets, farming's return on investment (ROI) is *still* under 1% (and actually closer to 0.7% !) That is roughly one-seventh the ROI to be had by putting the same money in a totally-safe US Treasury bond. And let's remember, too, that over three-quarters of US farmers have gross revenues under $50,000 and on average show a net *loss* of $3,000 per year. >It seems that shrinking that 80 percent sector might prove more productive >than shrinking the 15 percent one. Yes, indeed, though I'm not convinced that organic production (in itself) is the answer. As organics is currently evolving, we have a $4.00 box of organic corn flakes for which the farmer sees about 4 cents. Please explain how that is a substantial improvement on $3.00 conventional corn flakes, for which the farmer sees 3 cents. To survive, farmers need to think more like the shareholders of a corporation, focusing *first* on maximizing ROI. Getting our hands on a bigger chunk of that 80 per cent is a major element of that process. Most farmers, unfortunately, are content to work as staff for a business that has no over-arching internal management structure. As a result, the functions of VP Finance usually end up in the hands of the Banker. The role of VP Production goes to major input suppliers. And VP Marketing is most often the Buyer. All these external people are understandably trying to fatten their own bottom lines, which is how you end up with the kind of comparative returns that Benbrook cited. Farmers have a greater chance of financial success if they think *more* like business people, not less, and that success at least allows them the option of taking better care of their land. Farmers who have their backs against the wall financially are not particularly willing to change *anything* because they simply can't afford to make a mistake. Therein lies the core of our challenge in popularizing sustainable and organic agriculture. Attempting to address the agronomic issues before the management challenges are resolved it unlikely to be especially satisfying or effective. Bart Hall, Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 09:36:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01622 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:36:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA01304 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:30:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01233 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:30:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp202.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.202]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA27818 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:33:12 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:44:00 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-13; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 [Reposted with permission] ...... Sydney Morning Herald Saturday, March 13, 1999 Label gene food, says jury By DEBORAH SMITH After deliberating through the night until dawn, a citizen's jury at Australia's inaugural consensus conference brought down a unanimous report yesterday recommending that all genetically modified (GM) foods be labelled. The 14-member lay panel also called, in effect, for a short moratorium on any new commercial releases of GM foods in Australia, or the importation of unlabelled ones, until a better regulatory system was in place. It criticised the present regulatory bodies, including the Australia and New Zealand Food Authority which assesses the safety of new GM foods, for not serving community interests. It said: "The decision-making process is currently inaccessible and open to bias." It recommended a new statutory authority be established to oversee the introduction of gene technology, and that its deliberations be public. "The speed at which GM organisms have been developed and introduced by multinational companies and the scientific community has left many people completely unaware of and uninvolved in the process," the panel said. ........ posted by To: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 PUBLICATION: The Spectator (UK) DATE: Fri 12 Mar 1999 BYLINE: Laurent Belsie Guess what's coming to dinner!: We are what we eat. But what are we eating? Gene-spliced plants and hormone-treated beef raise serious ethical questions about the way the world is fooling with Mother Nature Geneticists are on the verge of revolutionizing agriculture and medicine in much the same way that computers have transformed business. Labs around the world are working on crops that could feed a growing planet, plants that could clean up contaminated soils, and pigs whose organs may one day get trans-planted into people. But to do these things, scientists are fooling with nature's basic building blocks. As they do, they are kicking up dissent around the world as one nation tries to sell its genetically altered foods to another's grocers. The current food fight between the United States and Europe -- over hormone-treated beef and genetically altered soy beans -- could be just a prelude of arguments to come. That's because the greatest risks probably don't lie with today's simple genetic alterations. Future rounds of exotic agriculture pose bigger threats because they will put organisms to completely new uses. The fundamental question: How much should science manipulate nature to care for mankind? And there's no going back, scientists say. Consider the U.S. experience. While Europeans debate how far to proceed with the new technology, North Americans are quietly ingesting the new foods, often without knowing it. ``The genie can't be put back,'' says Marshall Martin, an agricultural economist at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Ind. ``Anyone who eats pizza or cheese on their hamburger has consumed genetically modified food ... We pulled the cork out of the bottle in a sense with the discovery of DNA.'' For example, three-quarters of America's cheese gets its start with a bio-engineered enzyme. Nearly one out of six dairy farmers injects his cows with a genetically engineered growth hormone to boost milk production. And genetically modified crops are increasingly taking over farmlands -- with some 70 million acres planted worldwide, 60 million of it in North America. This planting season promises more inroads. For example, half of America's soybeans, perhaps more of its cotton, and a third of its corn could be genetically modified -- a remarkable adoption rate in the four years since the new seeds were introduced. Other countries are also moving rapidly to incorporate the technology. Last year, some 650,000 farmers in China planted genetically modified cotton. And this year Monsanto, which produces the cotton seed, expects to double that number. Even the European Union has approved bio-engineered soybeans and corn. Small quantities of corn, genetically modified to resist pests, are being grown in Spain and, if approved by France's high court, could start showing up in the fields of Europe's largest corn producer. Biotech companies such as Monsanto hope that resistance to the technology will crumble once European farmers begin to adopt the new strains. That move is likely, companies say, because the new-fangled crops typically improve yields and cut costs. ``It's likely to be adopted because the value of the benefits will be recognized,'' says Philip Angell, a Monsanto spokesman. Take cotton, one of the world's most pest-prone crops. By incorporating the genes of a natural insecticide, scientists have created a pest-resistant strain that requires fewer chemicals. It ``has been massively beneficial,'' says Val Giddings, a vice president of the Biotechnology Industry Organization in Washington. In the three years since they began using it, U.S. farmers have saved the equivalent of 850,000 gallons of pesticides -- the equivalent of 48 railroad tank cars of chemicals. Cutting pesticide use saves money. According to newly released figures by one of Britain's leading plant-research centres, bio-engineered soybeans saved farmers an average $30 US a hectare (because they used 40 per cent less herbicide. Pest-resistant corn saved $42 per hectare. (A hectare represents some 2 1/2 acres.) Doug Powell, associate professor in the department of plant agriculture at the University of Guelph sees genetic engineering as ``one additional tool that allows farmers and food processors to provide nutritious, low-cost food. ``We always need to be vigilant but I am confident there is a system in place for this.'' Despite these benefits, environmentalists worry the new crops pose a bigger hazard to human health and the environment. They've caught the ear of many Europeans. The environmental group Greenpeace, for example, has mounted an effective campaign across Europe to block the sale of genetically modified food. In February, it persuaded biotech giant AgrEvo (Hoechst) not to conduct field trials of such crops in Austria. In January, it organized anti-bio-engineering protests at the national offices of three European food companies in nine countries. Thanks to a Greenpeace suit, France's highest administrative court in December upheld its preliminary ban on genetically modified corn from a Swiss firm. The debate rings loudest in Britain, where memories of the government's mishandling of ``mad-cow'' disease remain fresh. The issue has gone all the way to the top: Prime Minister Tony Blair is risking his popularity to support genetically modified foods, while Prince Charles says he will never eat any of them. Further confounding the issue have been the findings of Arpad Pusztai, a Scottish researcher who ignited the whole controversy. Last summer he was quietly feeding potatoes to rats. Then he went public with concerns about the genetically modified rations he was using. On one hand, the researcher claims he's enthusiastic about bioengineering's potential. But he warns that it has to be done right because genetically modified potatoes stunted the growth of rats and depressed their immune system. Pusztai has not released his full results for review by other scientists -- a traditional practice. And when an internal audit committee evaluated his study, it disputed the findings. But 20 scientists, including one from Canada, have come forward since, saying Pusztai may have a point. Whatever the outcome, even biotech executives acknowledge the controversy is likely to continue. ``I think we have to be very, very careful about how these technologies are applied,'' says Richard Gill, senior vice-president and general manger of BTG International Inc., a tech-transfer company with offices in the US, Britain, and Japan. ``There needs to be ... more information shared with people in a form that can be understood.'' Even in the United States, activists remain hopeful they can slow down the technology. Dairy farmer associations and consumer groups, for example, continue to battle the milk-boosting growth hormone. ``Americans are expressing their concern with genetic engineering and agribusiness in general, not in a political way but in the marketplace,'' says Ben Lilliston of the Center for Food Safety. That's why organic products are growing so rapidly, he says, and why some 200,000 citizens complained when U.S. agricultural officials proposed including bio-engineered food as organic. Concern is justified, scientists say, because no one can predict how nature will react when new organisms appear. ``We're not talking about killer tomatoes. We're talking about plants that will pick up genes,'' says Norm Ellstrand, a geneticist at the University of California at Riverside. Genes can only transfer to relatives. So genetically modified corn in Iowa doesn't pose much danger because it has no wild relatives there. But planted in central America, it could create super-weeds that could out-compete the corn. And the risks increase as more of these genetically modified plants get released into the wild and interact. __________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign for Mandatory labelling and long-term testing of genetically engineered food 500 Wilbrod Street, Ottawa, ON K1N 6N2 email: rwolfson@concentric.net http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html subcription to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months. __________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 09:46:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01750 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA01252 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:30:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01169 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:30:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp202.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.202]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA27764 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:32:56 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:38:59 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-14; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 [Reposted with permission] Here is a newsletter of GE news Mothers for Natural Law Biweekly News 99/03/14 1. Industrial Enzymes are Top Allergens 2. Australia: Study reveals side effects of synthetic insulin 3. Yield of GE crops 4. Bt resistance has emerged among pink bollworms 5. Australia: Label gene food, says jury 6. Malaysia: GM food must be labelled 7. NZ: DOCTORS WANT EXTREME CAUTION ON ALTERED FOOD 8. Australia: Gene food conference says more information needed 9. Third World rejects GM 10. UK: Fast-food outlets turn against GM food 11. S.Africa produces first gene-modified maize Articles have been aggressively shortened. ------------------ Subject: Industrial Enzymes are Top Allergens Summary of an article in the Swiss health magazine "PulsTip" posted by: creuss@bluewin.ch (Christoph Reuss) Industrial enzymes are top triggers of allergies and asthma, according to a new dissertation from the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH). A study with 110 participants showed that for 90% of asthma patients and 80% of neurodermitis patients, the symptoms either disappeared or were strongly reduced by eliminating industrial enzymes from their diet and from laundry detergents. Neurodermititis and food allergies have boomed since the 1960s when the industry started to artificially add enzymes to foods and laundry detergents. Industrial enzymes are used in a wide range of foods, to improve gains, processability, shelf-life, taste and other properties in flour, starches, pop drinks, fruit juices, oils, beer, whine, cheese and meat. These artificially-added enzymes don't have to be declared on the labels, and it is hard to avoid them. Many of these enzymes are produced by genetically modified organisms (GMOs), usually molds and bacteria. Since the produced enzymes are subsequently separated from the GMOs, the use of GMOs doesn't have to be declared. However, the separation is often incomplete, and residuals of the molds and bacteria are the main culprits of allergies. Industrial enzymes are a vast business. Novo Nordisk, the Danish market leader, makes about $500 million per year with industrial enzymes. The gains in the food industry by using these enzymes and the market of anti-allergy drugs are even bigger (billion$). It's not surprising that the industry and allergy research establishment refused to comment or cooperate on the new ETH research. ------------------ Copyright 1999 AAP Information Services Pty. Ltd. AAP NEWSFEED March 10, 1999, Wednesday Nationwide General News; Australian General News Study reveals side effects of synthetic insulin Up to 40,000 Australian diabetics may unwittingly be suffering adverse side-effects from taking genetically engineered synthetic insulin, The Sydney Morning Herald reported today. The paper was quoting British research completed six years ago but only now released. It said the availability of animal-derived alternatives, which doctors agreed suited some patients better, was about to be further limited by the withdrawal of the main brand of cattle-derived "beef" insulin from the market. Novo Nordisk would withdraw from the market in July, citing commercial reasons. The Herald said "pork" insulin was withdrawn in 1990 although the firm made it available to some people on "compassionate grounds". The UK research, commissioned by the British Diabetics Association, had found up to 10 per cent of diabetes patients might suffer side effects as a result of taking synthetic "human" insulin, the paper reported. ------------------ http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/farming.htm Low yielding GM-beet and rape in UK Farmers Weekly (UK) for the 4th December 1998 reveals that the latest crop trials from the UK's National Institute of Agricultural Botany (NIAB) show yields from GM winter oilseed rape and sugar beet were up to 7% and 8% less than high yielding conventional varieties when the crops were managed using conventional weed control techniques. Even with the use of a total herbicide on the GM-beet, to which it was modified to be resistant, only a 2% improvement in yield was achieved in 1997 and 1998, leaving it still significantly outperformed by the conventional varieties. Interestingly, this appears to be the first report in the popular farming press of GM trial crop performance results for varieties grown in the UK. The usual source of performance information is the biotechnology companies themselves. http://www.ucsusa.org/Gene/su98.rain.html Low-Yielding Bt cotton in Arkansas According to the April 1998 Cotton Grower, Bt-cotton growers in Arkansas had less than a banner year last season. A University of Arkansas study of several Bt and non-Bt cotton fields showed that on average Bt cotton yielded fewer pounds and lower income per acre. One farm showed a remarkable difference in yield--Bt cotton produced 168 fewer pounds per acre than the non-Bt variety. Bt cotton, on the farms studied, yielded an average of 24 fewer pounds per acre. Also, the new varieties required more growth regulator to synchronize plant development and had to be picked twice at harvest. Non-Bt cotton is typically picked only once. ------------------ FOOD BYTES #17 March 2, 1999 Ronnie Cummins & Ben Lilliston The mid-January 1999 issue of the California Farmer magazine reports that Bt resistance has emerged among pink bollworms, a major cotton pest, in Arizona cotton fields Biotech critics have warned for years that genetically engineered Bt crops will cause major crop pests to develop resistance to Bt, thereby destroying the usefulness of the world's most important natural biopesticide. ------------------ Sydney Morning Herald Saturday, March 13, 1999 Label gene food, says jury By DEBORAH SMITH After deliberating through the night until dawn, a citizen's jury at Australia's inaugural consensus conference brought down a unanimous report yesterday recommending that all genetically modified (GM) foods be labelled. The 14-member lay panel also called, in effect, for a short moratorium on any new commercial releases of GM foods in Australia, or the importation of unlabelled ones, until a better regulatory system was in place. ------------------ Copyright 1999 New Straits Times Press (Malaysia) Berhad New Straits Times (Malaysia) March 11, 1999 GM food must be labelled ... genetically-modified foods taste and look very much like their naturally-grown counterparts. The unsuspecting and uninformed consumer thus is totally unaware that he is buying GM food. Although the dangers of consuming these food have not been scientifically established, evidence is mounting that they can cause increased levels of toxins in humans and animals, a higher susceptibility to allergies and resistance to antibiotics. The more troubling aspect of these GM foods is that no quick scientific method exists to identify these produce. Adding to the problem, is the fact that these foodstuffs are not labelled. Information on these GM foods had been available over the past several years. But only in specialised publications and science articles. But thanks to a food security conference held in Penang last week the controversial issue was extensively discussed and publicised. The gist of the discussions was the call for the need to label these foods. The conference organiser, F. Josie of Consumers International's Regional Office for Asia and the Pacific, pointed out the problems these foodstuffs would pose. For one, the European Union has banned these foods. Thus countries like Malaysia are at a "high risk of being treated as a dumping ground for these items". For another, nothing is being done to prevent the entry of such foods. More importantly, we do not have any law that requires description of how the food was produced. Clearly then the Government must act fast before the dangers of consuming the GM food manifest themselves at the cost of the health, and worse, the lives, of consumers. It must enforce legislation that lets the people know what they are buying and eating. ------------------ Copyright 1999 AAP Information Services Pty. Ltd. AAP NEWSFEED March 10, 1999, Wednesday Nationwide General News; Overseas News NZPA News Bulletin DOCTORS WANT EXTREME CAUTION ON ALTERED FOOD WELLINGTON - Doctors have warned the Government to take "exceptional caution" about genetically modified food because research was incomplete and biased. The Royal New Zealand College of General Practitioners chairman Ralph Wiles said much of the research on genetically altered food raised serious health and environmental safety concerns. "Much of the information available is from the proponents of the technology - who stand to make a lot of money if it's widely approved - but we're now hearing more from independent scientists whose research points to significant risks," Dr Wiles said in a statement. "It's not being alarmist to urge that exceptional caution be applied until such time as we have available sufficient information to satisfy a reasonable person that the products of this technology are safe." ------------------ Copyright 1999 AAP Information Services Pty. Ltd. AAP NEWSFEED March 13, 1999, Saturday Nationwide General News; Australian General News Gene food conference says more information needed By Stephen Spencer CANBERRA, March 12 AAP - A landmark conference today called for the comprehensive labelling of genetically modified food and a halt to its import and development until a new regulatory regime is established. However the food industry welcomed the findings, saying they gave the green light to genetically modified foods to be sold here, and earn billions of dollars in exports. The consensus conference brought together 14 lay people who questioned experts of genetically modified foods and others with an interest in the topic. Their report released today was hailed by Australian Democrats Deputy Leader Natasha Stott Despoja, because of its call for comprehensive labelling to allow consumers to decide whether or not they bought such foods. ------------------ Sunday Independent (London) Feb 28, 1999 Third World rejects GM By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Correspondent The world's hungriest nations have resolved to oppose genetically modified foods. A senior Ethiopian government official last night told the Independent on Sunday they were "absolutely united" in resisting US plans to "decide what we eat". Dr Tewolde Gebre Egziabher was speaking after last week's talks collapsed in Cartagena, Colombia, following the United States' accusation that the developing countries were endangering free trade. An international treaty to regulate trade in GM produce had been discussed by 132 nations. ------------------ http://news2.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid%5F292000/292829.stm Monday, March 8, 1999 Published at 16:39 GMT UK Fast-food outlets turn against GM food Some restaurants are banning GM ingredients A survey has revealed further signs that consumers are turning against genetically-modified (GM) food. Almost half of the UK's leading fast-food outlets are turning their backs on GM food, according to research conducted by environmental group Friends of the Earth. The organisation asked 11 fast food chains with 50 or more outlets whether they were going to remove GM ingredients from the food they sold. Between them the 11 companies have 3,548 outlets across the UK. Three of the chains - Wimpy, Pizza Express and Domino's Pizza - already believe they are GM-free. Two others - Burger King and KFC - are in the process of removing all GM ingredients from their products. And McDonald's and Perfect Pizza said they were currently considering going GM-free. ------------------ S.Africa produces first gene-modified maize 10:06 a.m. Mar 05, 1999 Eastern By Allan Seccombe PRETORIA, March 5 (Reuters) - South Africa's first genetically modified grain has been grown commercially and will be sold on the market mixed with other grains, a leading seed seller said on Friday. ``Up to 50,000 hectares of genetically modified maize has been planted this season and will be sold in the commercial market,'' he said. Two strains of yellow maize, both resistant to stalk borer, a pest that attacks maize, were being commercially cultivated. Copyright 1999 Reuters Limited. ------------------ Mothers for Natural Law http://www.safe-food.org ==================================================== ......... Sunday Independent 14 Feb 1999 (UK) Stop GM Foods - Scientists find banned soya in UK products Government controls fail to stop illegal beans entering the food chain, writes Rachel Sylvester UNLICENSED genetically modified crops are entering the food chain in Britain because the Government is unable to control the import of ingredients. Traces of genetically modified soya beans which have not been licensed as safe for human consumption in Europe have been identified in products on sale in this country. ....... Sunday Indpendent (UK) 14 Feb 1999 Stop GM Food - Stray seeds land farmer in court By Marie Woolf in Bruno, Saskatchewan Farmers who find that stray genetically modified seeds have blown on to their land from neighbours' fields and then taken root could face massive fines if the agrochemical giant Monsanto wins a test case in a Canadian court. Percy Schmeiser, a farmer in Saskatchewan, Canada, is being pursued by Monsanto for damages and the profits from his fields because the company claims that the patent on its genetically modified (GM) seeds has been violated. GM canola (rape) plants from Monsanto seeds were found growing among his crops. The farmer believes that the seeds blew on to his land. If Monsanto wins the test case, due to go to court this autumn, British farmers in similar situations could also face court cases culminating in having to pay thousands of pounds in compensation. But Mr Schmeiser never signed a contract to grow Monsanto's GM canola and says he is not liable to the big fines the company imposes for using seed from crops. His fields run along a main road which links a grain silo and a rubbish dump where used seed sacks are thrown away. The prairies can be windy and cut crops are often blown on to neighbouring fields. ....... Sunday Independent 14 Feb Secret deal will ban GM crops until 2002 By Marie Woolf, Political Correspondent Genetically modified crops are to be banned for three years under a landmark deal being secretly negotiated between the Government and biotechnology companies. After weeks of confidential talks, ministers are poised to announce a breakthrough. Seed companies will agree to a voluntary freeze on growing GM crops in Britain until at least the year 2002. The deal, expected to be announced within the next three weeks, will mark a victory for campaigners, including the Independent on Sunday, who have called on the Government to delay planting GM crops in Britain until there have been more tests on their environmental effects. The new freeze will allow scientists to examine the effect of growing GM crops on other plants, birds and animals. __________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign for Mandatory labelling and long-term testing of genetically engineered food 500 Wilbrod Street, Ottawa, ON K1N 6N2 email: rwolfson@concentric.net http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html subcription to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months. __________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 10:45:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA03174 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:45:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA09788 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:37:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from bean.epix.net (bean.epix.net [199.224.64.57]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA09598 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:37:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp102.epix.net [205.238.243.102]) by bean.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.0/1998093001/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id JAA21904; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:37:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36EE6D27.727BA0DC@epix.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:39:36 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bluestem Associates CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Organic Farming Economics References: <199903161334.IAA03056@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 Bluestem Associates wrote: > And let's remember, too, that over three-quarters of US farmers have > gross revenues under $50,000 and on average show a net *loss* of $3,000 > per year. > Bart, Is this actually true? How can 75% of US farmers have under $50,000 gross when we have all these big farms? Example: A 400 acre corn farmer @ only 100 bu/acre x 2.00 bu. is $80,000 gross. Something doesn't seem right about this info or maybe my personal intuiton is on the blink today. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 11:17:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04264 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:17:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08707 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:28:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cornell.edu (cornell.edu [132.236.56.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08647 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:28:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [128.253.49.40] (D5640.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.49.40]) by cornell.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25880 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:28:26 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: rjt5@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <36EE6D27.727BA0DC@epix.net> References: <199903161334.IAA03056@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:28:14 -0500 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" From: Bob Torres Subject: Re: Organic Farming Economics Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 At 9:39 AM -0500 3/16/1999, Steve Groff wrote: >Bluestem Associates wrote: > >> And let's remember, too, that over three-quarters of US farmers have >> gross revenues under $50,000 and on average show a net *loss* of $3,000 >> per year. >> > >Bart, >Is this actually true? How can 75% of US farmers have under $50,000 gross when >we have all these big farms? Example: A 400 acre corn farmer @ only 100 >bu/acre >x 2.00 bu. is $80,000 gross. Something doesn't seem right about this info or >maybe my personal intuiton is on the blink today. > >Steve Groff Hi, Seems to me that Bart's figure is right. I've been digging through the census of ag for the last few weeks looking at exactly this data. The majority of counties have a majority of farmers (somewhere quite close to that 75% figure) which sell less than $50,000 per year. Although this is an eye opener, these results might be misleading on their own because of the way in which the census categories a farm...the minimum income to be considered a farm is low, (can't remember the exact amt., though I think it is around $2000 in sales) so this might skew things downward and count lots of part time farms. But it is still quite telling of the state of ag in the US. Bob Torres -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Bob Torres Ph.D. Student Department of Rural Sociology Cornell University 133A Warren Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 tel:607-255-9672 fax:607-254-2896 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 12:08:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05319 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:08:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08763 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:20:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08747 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:20:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.119.60.82] (pa-ppp46.hevanet.com [204.119.60.82]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA21543; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:19:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903161619.IAA21543@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:22:16 -0800 Subject: FW: A Salad That Diamondback Moths Can't Resist From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Bargyla Rateaver CC: SANET , OGL@lsv.uky.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: A Salad That Diamondback Moths Can't Resist Date: Tue, Mar 16, 1999, 6:45 AM STORY LEAD: A Salad That Diamondback Moths Can't Resist ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA March 16, 1999 Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- What's a good way to stop hungry diamondback moths from nibbling on a farmer's cabbage, broccoli, kale and other cole crops? Agricultural Research Service scientists have an answer: give the pests a heaping serving of collard greens. Entomologist Everett Mitchell, at the ARS' Center for Medical, Agricultural and Veterinary Entomology in Gainesville, Fla., says giving the pest collards spoils its appetite for cabbage. The moths can't resist the all-you-can-eat collards when they're planted completely around cabbage field edges, a strategy called trap cropping that could also work to protect other cole crops. Invading diamondbacks stop and deposit their eggs on the collards rather than on adjacent cabbage plants. Diamondback populations continue to re-cycle in collards as long as plants remain green and continue to grow. Diamondback moths, named for the diamond-shaped markings on their wings, are becoming resistant to many chemicals. Spraying pesticides can be costly, ranging from about $10 to $21 an acre for each application, depending on which pesticides are used. It typically costs growers $80 to $168 per acre or more each season to produce a crop. Mitchell conducted recent experiments on farms in northeast Florida that showed the moths prefer to feed on highly fertilized collard plants. He tested this approach for more than two years. In all cases, he says, damage to cabbage by diamondback moth larvae was minimal. This simple, low-tech, cost-effective method also reduces pesticide use. Cabbage fields surrounded by collards required 75 to 100 percent fewer sprays to control diamondback moth than fields treated conventionally with pesticides. An in-depth article on this research appears in the March issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/mar99/diam0399.htm ARS is USDA's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Everett Mitchell, ARS Center for Medical, Agricultural and Veterinary Entomology, Gainesville, Fla., 32604, (phone) 352-374-5710, (fax) 352-374-5804, emitchell@gainesville.usda.ufl.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 12:09:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05339 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:09:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08640 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:19:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08557; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:18:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:21:23 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'san-comm-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Excerpts from SAN cover crop book on the web Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:21:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Sanet: Most of you know already about the Sustainable Agriculture Network (SAN) publication on cover crops: Managing Cover Crops Profitably, 2nd Edition. 1998. We have posted excerpts of the full book on the web at http://www.sare.org/san/mccp2/ Hope you'll find these of interest! See the chapter on Cereal Rye for an idea of the comprehensive information on each cover crop. See also http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/ for excerpts or full text of other SAN publications. Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. Sustainable Agriculture Network (SAN) Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 16:01:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12029 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:01:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA09222 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:50:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA09211 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:50:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08304 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:50:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA61596 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:50:46 -0700 Received: from edandsue (dialup0381.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.53.225]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA136262 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:50:36 -0700 Message-ID: <005401be6fe5$7da34ac0$e1355281@edandsue.colostate.edu> From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Subject: Monsanto & GM seeds to be subject of NPR "All Things Considered" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:44:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE6FAA.CBB34700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE6FAA.CBB34700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This afternoon "All Things Considered" will feature a special on = Monsanto and its GM seeds. A related item: DuPont is buying the rest of Pioneer Hybrid (see NY = Times or Wall St Journ). Ed Sparling Ag Econ Dept Colorado State Univ.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE6FAA.CBB34700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This afternoon "All Things = Considered"=20 will feature a special on Monsanto and its GM seeds.
 
A related item: DuPont is buying the = rest of=20 Pioneer Hybrid (see NY Times or Wall St Journ).
 
Ed Sparling
Ag Econ Dept
Colorado State = Univ. 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE6FAA.CBB34700-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 16:59:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13952 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:59:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA17528 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:56:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA17454 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09638 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:56:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA03338; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:56:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199903162056.OAA03338@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, iffs@nal.usda.gov Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:56:38 -0500 Subject: Health problems/pesticide and fertilizer mixes CC: len.maurer@ccmail.adp.wisc.edu, dkaufman@discover-net.net, rlwills@execpc.com, klemme@aae.wisc.edu, stevenson@aae.wisc.edu, mperry@hsph.harvard.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 Howdy, all-- The following story can be found at: http://www.news.wisc.edu/thisweek/Research/Bio/Y99/pesticide.html Thought it would interest some of you. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pesticide, fertilizer mixes linked to range of health problems (posted 3/15/99) The natural mix of chemical pesticides and fertilizers, such as occurs when agricultural chemicals seep into groundwater, may have a broad range of effects on human and animal health, a new study shows. The study, published in the current issue of the journal Toxicology and Industrial Health, suggests that combinations of commonly used agricultural chemicals, in concentrations that mirror levels found in groundwater, can significantly influence the immune and endocrine systems as well as neurological health. Conducted over five years, the study of mice suggests that current methods used by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and others for studying the toxic effects of low-levels of pesticides may be flawed. "The single most important finding of the study is that common mixtures, not the standard one-chemical-at-a-time experiments, can show biological effects at current concentrations in groundwater," said Warren P. Porter, the lead author of the study and a UW-Madison professor of zoology and environmental toxicology. Although used worldwide, "tests for these compounds in combination are very rare, although they frequently co-occur." The experiments performed by Porter's group suggest that children and the developing fetus are most at risk from the pesticide-fertilizer mixtures. Their influence on developing neurological, endocrine and immune systems, said Porter, portend change in ability to learn and in patterns of aggression. The privately funded Wisconsin study focused on three commonly used farm chemicals: aldicarb, an insecticide; atrazine, a herbicide; and nitrate, a chemical fertilizer. All three are in wide use worldwide and are the most ubiquitous contaminants of groundwater in the United States. In the series of experiments, when mice were given drinking water laced with combinations of pesticides and nitrate, they exhibited altered immune, endocrine and nervous system functions. Those changes, according to Porter, occurred at concentrations currently found in groundwater. Effects were most noticeable when a single pesticide was combined with nitrate fertilizer. This was true for herbicide as well as insecticide, said Porter, and chips away at the notion that herbicides have no significant influence on animals. "Herbicides can have neurological impacts and hormonal impacts and immune impacts," he said. "They are not the harmless chemicals they are sometimes portrayed to be. They can be every bit as biologically active as insecticides or fungicides." The apparent influence of pesticide and fertilizer mixtures on the endocrine system -- the system of glands such as the thyroid that secrete hormones into the bloodstream -- may have a cascade effect, spilling over to the immune system and affecting fetal brain development. "Thyroid disruption in humans has multiple consequences," Porter said. Some of these include effects on brain development, level of irritability, sensitivity to stimuli, ability or motivation to learn, and altered immune function. A curious finding of the study is that animals may be more vulnerable to the influence of such chemicals depending on the time of year: "Our current working hypothesis is that animals are seasonally vulnerable because of subtle modulation of natural seasonal variation in hormone levels," according to Porter. "For example, thyroid hormone level varies seasonally and we have now shown that two different chemical mixtures will modulate thyroid hormone levels." The new study, Porter contends, adds to a growing body of evidence that current testing methods required for the registration and use of chemical pesticides are fundamentally flawed. In addition to a lack of testing of combinations of chemical compounds, Porter said there is a narrow focus on looking principally for carcinogenic effects or obvious cell mutations. Neurological, immune and endocrine tests for pesticides have been mandated by federal law for almost three years, but there has been no enforcement of these laws, Porter said. "Toxicological testing so far has been extremely limited in scope and focused on mechanisms that require extensive mutations or cell damage to show any effects. They do not adequately assess the potential for biological effects under real world exposure scenarios." Co-authors of the paper include James W. Jaeger of the UW-Madison Department of Zoology, and Ian H. Carlson of the Endocrinology Laboratory, University of Wisconsin Hospital. C 1999 Board of Regents of the University of Wisconsin System Source: UW-Madison Office of News and Public Affairs <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 17:07:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14483 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA21094 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:04:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21065 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:04:03 -0500 (EST) From: EWALL@envsci.uoguelph.ca Received: from fesnet.nw.uoguelph.ca ([131.104.238.2] (may be forged)) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA10728; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:03:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from FESNET/SpoolDir by fesnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.31); 16 Mar 99 15:53:38 GMT-5 Received: from SpoolDir by FESNET (Mercury 1.31); 16 Mar 99 15:53:26 GMT-5 Organization: Environmental Science To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, rvanstaveren@iatp.com, cpieri@worldbank.org, csas001@unlvm.unl.edu, cflora@iastate.edu, Ray Bollman , Elin Gwyn , Helen Aitkin , Anne Wilcock , gr6xu@geonet.css.uoguelph.ca Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:53:24 EDT Subject: Call for Papers reminder for April 1 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Message-ID: <131BEDB12818@fesnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 Hello: Just a reminder to get your abstracts in to me by April 1; details are repeated below. Information about our conference can be found at our web site: www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/ Apologies for duplications. Please pass on to interested colleagues. ***CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR PAPERS*** Sustaining Agriculture in the 21st Century: Thinking "Outside the Box" Biennial Meeting - North American Chapter Association for Farming Systems Research and Extension (AFSR/E)October 20-23, 1999 University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario, CANADA Linkages between agriculture and the changing social, economic, and bio-physical environment need to be understood and optimized if agriculture is going to meet the challenges of the 21st century. We invite you to submit abstracts for papers, posters, and panels that relate to one or more of the following 4 topics: 1. Farming Systems and Environmental Management Increasingly, agri-environmental schemes are being seen not only as vehicles for environmental enhancement, but also as a potentially important factor in marketing. Papers for this session should focus on: * Local, national and international standards for environmental management systems * Farming systems approaches to improve management of bio-physical resources * Public policy as a stimulus or constraint to implementation of environmental management systems. 2. Farming Systems and Technological Innovations In Ontario and throughout North America, consumer demand for food and food products that come from sustainable operations is on the increase. Papers for this session should focus on: *Identifying and exploiting new marketing opportunities *Farm level impacts of volatile financial markets and changing consumer preferences *Improving market access through alternative production practices and biotech products. 3. Farming Systems and Rural Communities Agriculture continues to dominate the physical landscape and cultural history of most regions even though its economic impact at the community level is reduced. Papers in this session should focus on: * Agriculture's role in re-building and enriching rural community life in the 21st century * Strategies that foster positive community-agriculture interactions * The effect of rural community change and service sector restructuring on the viability and quality of farm life 4. Farming Systems and Human Health Recent concerns about food safety have led directly to investigations about farming practices and their consequences for food production. Papers in this session should focus on: * Preventing food contamination on the farm * Implications of vertical integration for food safety * Occupational Health and Safety in agricultural production. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The conference will combine formal paper sessions, panel discussions, and poster presentations along with informal conversations with local farmers experienced in "out of the box" thinking. Abstracts (maximum 250 words), should be submitted to the conference contact by April 1/1999. Abstracts accepted will be printed and made available to conference participants. An edited collection of selected papers will be published in a refereed conference proceedings to be made available in the year 2000. Details concerning the preliminary program, registration, and accommodation will be supplied in a second circular to be distributed in April, 1999. Conference Contact: Ellen Wall Email: ewall@envsci@uoguelph.ca Phone: 519 824 4120 ext 8480; Fax : 519 763 8933 Check the FSR website for more details: http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ellen Wall Research Scientist Farming Systems Research Plant Agriculture University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 phone: 519 824 4120 ext 8480 fax: 519 763 8933 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 18:37:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17449 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:37:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23509 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:43:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23482 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:43:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12791 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:43:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA63824 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:43:45 -0700 Received: from edandsue (dialup0515.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.54.104]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA181474 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:43:43 -0700 Message-ID: <001201be6ffd$a7b4b700$68365281@edandsue.colostate.edu> From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Subject: Re: Dupont--Pioneer Article Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:37:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 >From NY Times March 16, 1999 DuPont Paying $7.7 Billion for Pioneer Hi-Bred, Top Supplier of Farm Seed Related Article Dupont and Pioneer Discussing the Possibility of a Combination (March 13) Forum Join a Discussion on Merger Mania By DAVID BARBOZA uPont Co., seeking to create an agricultural powerhouse to match its giant chemical business, said Monday that it would pay more than $7.7 billion in cash and stock to buy the remaining 80 percent of Pioneer Hi-Bred International, the world's largest producer of seed corn. The deal -- which the companies had said on Friday was in the works -- is part of DuPont's effort to push aggressively into the life sciences arena, where it would compete in the race to create and develop genetically engineered seeds and crops. In acquiring Pioneer, a company that sells corn, soybean and other seeds, DuPont hopes to develop genetically altered seeds and sell them directly to farmers worldwide in tandem with DuPont's herbicides and pesticides. DuPont, which already owned 20 percent of Pioneer, said on Monday that it would acquire the remainder by paying the equivalent of $40 a share, with 45 percent of that in cash and 55 percent in stock. Shares of Pioneer, which is based in Des Moines, rose $4.0625 on Monday, or 11.8 percent, to $38.375. DuPont, based in Wilmington, Del., fell $1.50, to $56.25. Over the last year, analysts say, some of the world's largest drug and life sciences companies have been scrambling to position themselves in the fast-growing field of genetically engineered crops and drugs, and companies like DuPont want to be involved with seeds to guarantee greater access to that business. "The seed companies are the key to the whole world of biotech," said Leonard G. Teitelbaum, an analyst at Merrill Lynch & Co. "How do you get your seeds to the farmer? You don't put them in an envelope and mail them. It's through seed companies." At a news conference on Monday, Charles O. Holliday Jr., the chief executive of DuPont, said that while DuPont had not expected to make a large acquisition that might weaken the company's stock, rapid developments in the life sciences made such a deal urgent. Calling it "one of the most important mergers in U.S. history," Holliday said the acquisition of Pioneer would allow DuPont to participate in the creation of higher-yielding crops and more nutritious foods in a world where the amount of available arable land will soon be inadequate to handle a growing population. When asked why such a deal needed to take place now, he replied: "Speed. Speed. Speed." The company simply could not sit around and wait for things to happen, he said. If the acquisition is approved by regulators, DuPont will take control of the last remaining giant seed company, making DuPont a formidable competitor to Monsanto Co., which has acquired more than $8 billion worth of large seed companies over the last two years, adding the heft of being the world's largest seed company to its strengths in herbicides and genetic research. Monday's announcement appears to preclude any deal between DuPont and Monsanto, coming just weeks after executives close to the companies said the two were considering a giant combination that would join their life sciences and pharmaceutical divisions. Wall Street analysts say a deal between Monsanto and DuPont could now run into antitrust problems because of their dominant positions in seeds. Analysts praised Monday's deal, saying that there were indications that Pioneer had pushed itself into a marriage with DuPont after reports circulated about a DuPont-Monsanto deal. Still, several analysts said they were puzzled by the deal and how swiftly it had occurred. Beginning in late 1997, DuPont spent about $1.7 billion for a 20 percent stake in Pioneer, and the two companies agreed to collaborate on research and development. But under the terms of the agreement, DuPont agreed not to increase its stake for 16 years. The two companies have scrapped that agreement and over the weekend the boards of both companies agreed to the deal, which lets Pioneer retain its name and its headquarters in Des Moines, Iowa. "Pioneer had to be looking over its shoulder, and DuPont was looking to get deeper into life sciences," said George S. Dahlman, an analyst at Piper Jaffrey. "They had a chance to work with each other, so that made the deal easier." DuPont said that financing for some of the cash portion of the offer would come from the $4.4 billion raised in the spinoff last year of the Conoco energy unit. Holliday acknowledged that DuPont, which had revenue of more than $25 billion last year, had shown lackluster earnings growth last year. But he said DuPont was steering a new course toward pharmaceuticals and agriculture. DuPont said last week that it would create a separate tracking stock for its life sciences business to allow the operations to participate more actively in industry consolidation. The company also said that it planned to seek alliances in the pharmaceuticals business. Pioneer, which was founded in 1926 by Henry Wallace, who was a vice president under Franklin D. Roosevelt, has about 5,000 employees; DuPont has about 92,000 employees. The Wallace family currently has a 14 percent stake in Pioneer. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 18:48:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17719 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:48:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA09450 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:10:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA09337 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:10:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA13224 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA49698; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:10:10 -0700 Received: from edandsue (dialup0515.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.54.104]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA114276; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:10:08 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01be7001$587e4120$68365281@edandsue.colostate.edu> From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Cc: Subject: NPR Report on Monsanto Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:04:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE6FC6.AB0B3A00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE6FC6.AB0B3A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sustainable Ag Network Subscribers: How did you all react to the "All Things Considered piece on Monsanto?" = My reaction was that the Monsanto PR dept had a big hand in it. = Interesting that Clinton is going to give Fraley (former PR man for = Monsanto) a medal. Ouch!=20 I have to wonder if tommorow's part 2 will incorporate a serious = consideration of concerns about the effects of bt GM plants on the = organic farming sector. It seems pretty irresponsible reporting if Dan = Charles (NPR reporter) hasn't talked to Charles Benbrook (for example).=20 Ed Sparling Professor Emeritus Dept Agric Economics Colorado State University ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE6FC6.AB0B3A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Sustainable Ag Network=20 Subscribers:
 
How did you all react to the = "All Things=20 Considered piece on Monsanto?" 
 
My reaction was that the Monsanto PR = dept had a=20 big hand in it.  Interesting that Clinton is going to give Fraley = (former=20 PR man for Monsanto) a medal.  Ouch! 
 
I have to wonder if tommorow's part = 2 will=20 incorporate a serious consideration of concerns about the effects of bt = GM=20 plants on the organic farming sector.  It seems pretty = irresponsible=20 reporting if Dan Charles (NPR reporter) hasn't talked to Charles = Benbrook (for=20 example). 
 
Ed Sparling
Professor Emeritus
Dept Agric Economics
Colorado State=20 University
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE6FC6.AB0B3A00-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 18:58:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17915 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:58:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA15863 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:21:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA15807 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:21:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip176.wheeling2.wv.pub-ip.psi.net (ip176.wheeling2.wv.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.202.176]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA25994 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:21:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EF10FF.292F@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:18:39 -0800 From: Robert DuBoff & Heather Crocker Organization: Hero Enterprises, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: npr story on monsanto GE References: <199903161332.IAA02238@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 Hi all- Just finished listening to a story on National Public Radio - All Things Considered about Monsanto's difficulties with selling the world on GE seeds. Much of the story was Monsanto reps talking about what a blessing Roundup Ready and seeds with Bt are to farmers. The rest covered resistance in the UK and India, and some discussion of terminator technology. Except for a BRIEF interview with Hope Shand from RAFI, there was inadequate explanation of the potential adverse consequences of GE. Another segment on Monsanto/GE is scheduled for tomorrow (3/17) on All Things Considered. I'm about to scurry around getting some hard data to send in my response to the story - does anyone have any suggestions for a concise but really thorough stats on GE? Would love to hear other people's impressions of the story too - anybody hear it? Thanks! Heather Crocker St. Clairsville, OH To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 21:20:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21056 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:20:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA13739 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:34:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA13612 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:34:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.236] (term6-34.vta.west.net [205.254.241.226]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA25156 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:32:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:34:00 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: DuPont Press Release on Merger w/Pioneer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA13647 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Pioneer Merger Another Major Step in DuPont Life Sciences Strategy As reported in yesterday's news flash edition of Network News, DuPont and Pioneer HiBred International have announced a definitive agreement for a stock and cash merger that will result in DuPont's complete ownership of Pioneer. DuPont currently has a 20 percent interest in Pioneer. "This transaction is another major step in DuPont's life sciences strategy and will strengthen and accelerate its capability to discover, develop and commercialize a new generation of products across the value chains for food and feed crops, food ingredients, industrial applications and nutrition science," according to a news release issued yesterday. Under the terms of the agreement, Pioneer shareholders will receive USD 40 per share, with 45 percent of the shares receiving cash and 55 percent of the shares receiving DuPont stock. Pioneer shareholders will have certain rights to elect which form of consideration they receive. The merger is expected to close during the summer of 1999. The total equity value of the transaction is estimated to be approximately USD 7.7 billion for the 80 percent of Pioneer not currently owned by DuPont. "One of the Most Important Mergers in U.S. History" "I believe this is one of the most important mergers in U.S. history," DuPont Chairman and CEO Chad Holliday said at a news conference in New York City yesterday following the announcement of the merger agreement between DuPont and Pioneer. "We are joining with an old friend, to fundamentally improve the quantity and quality of food per acre." Chad went on to make six points: "We do have the critical mass to lead now" in life sciences. "With Pioneer we are leaders in the input and output traits of farming" (adding value for the farmer and for the ultimate consumer). "Pioneer is a leader in germ plasma." "Pioneer has a first-rate management, under Chuck Johnson." "Our interests are closely aligned." "Pioneer will operate under its own name, in its own home of Des Moines, Iowa, and with its own culture." Chuck Johnson, chairman and CEO of Pioneer, said: "This will be the most powerful agricultural technology force in the world. We know DuPont and we have a common vision of increased production for farmers and the quality of the products they grow. Plant genetics are the only way for farmers to increase production without opening up new, fragile land." In answer to a question, he said Pioneer had some 60 hybrids in the pipeline and "a whole stream of opportunities to add traits" in the years ahead. DuPont Chief Financial Officer Gary Pfeiffer said the deal was expected to be closed by the end of the third quarter. In a later interview on CNBC TV, Chad said: "By August this year there will be six billion people in the world and it is our ambition to feed them the most nutritional food possible." He reiterated that "DuPont is a science company" incorporating different kinds of science, including materials science. Chad: "Let's Welcome the People of Pioneer" In his latest letter to employees, DuPont Chairman and CEO Chad Holliday talks about the acquisition of Pioneer, declaring: "It is a major step in our sustainable growth strategy and our plans to increase shareholder value. "This transaction will strengthen and accelerate our ability to discover, develop and commercialize a new generation of products for food and feed crops, food ingredients, industrial applications and nutrition science," he continued. "It fully supports our goal of helping improve the world's food supply by increasing the quantity and quality of nutrition per acre. It is truly another 'leap' for DuPont and will enhance an already outstanding science and technology platform and marketing capability. It will accelerate the integration of DuPont's biology, chemistry and genomics with Pioneer's leading market position and research and development capabilities. The end result should be significantly increased shareholder value. "Both of our companies share a strong focus on customers and have compatible cultures and values," he concluded. "Please join me in welcoming the people of Pioneer fully into the DuPont family." DuPont Pioneer Merger Provides Mutual Benefits Commenting on the agreement for DuPont to acquire Pioneer, The Wall Street Journal noted yesterday that there were mutual benefits. "DuPont, whose scientists have probably had the most success at genetically altering the nutritional attributes of crops, would get direct control of the world's biggest proprietary seed bank as well as a global seed sales force," the article suggested. "Pioneer's agreement to be acquired represents a big cultural change for the 73-year-old company, which was founded by one-time U.S. Vice President Henry A. Wallace," The Wall Street Journal pointed out. However, it noted benefits to Pioneer, including what DuPont brings to the table in terms of genes and "deep pockets". Subscribers to The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition can read the full report at http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB921268716949898331.htm --------- Further info: http://www.dupont.com/corp/whats-new/newsfile/990316.html#one To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 21:22:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21079 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:22:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA12230 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:33:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA12051 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:32:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.236] (term6-34.vta.west.net [205.254.241.226]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA24816 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:31:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:32:40 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Fwd: Korean Action Against Genetic Crops Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 DATE: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:20:29 From: DAMN To: damn@tao.ca Title: Korean Action Against Genetic Crops Date: 12-MAR-1999 Source: "Antti.rautiainen" Korean students and environmental activists today organized a direct action against the irresponsible use of GM(genetically-modified) technology, at the center of Korean agricultural biotechnology - the National Institute of Agricultural Science and Technology (NIAST). NIAST, funded by the Korean Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry (MAF), proclaims itself to be the key research institute responsible for the development of sustainable agricultural technologies that are environment-friendly. However, it was revealed last year that NIAST had secretly carried out the field trials of GM crops even though Korea did not have anylegislations regarding the release of GMOs into the environment. On February this year, the Rural Development Administration (RDA) announced that NIAST developed eight different GM crops, including Rice, Cayenne,Chinese cabbage, Tobacco, and Tomato. According to the RDA, these GM crops will be put on market by 2001. And yet, the Korean government keeps silent about the issues of biosafety and bioethics. The action started at 11 a.m. when about ten students and activists occupied and blockaded the greenhouse at the NIAST, where the field trials of GM crops were being conducted. They placed a big banner with the "X" symbol over the greenhouse, and chained themselves to its entrance. Other activists demonstrated outside the greenhouse with placards raised, which read "No Genetic Engineering". "Koreans are shaken by the fact that the government allows the field trials of GM crops while it does not even have a legislation or agency to monitor and regulate the experiments," said one participant. "Genetic engineering is good for the economy, they say. But can this be a good excuse for ignoring the environment, public health and ethical considerations?" "We're here today to let the government and those researchers involved know how the public feels about their incompetence, arrogance, and lack of responsibility." The students and activists called for: 1) Immediate ban on the release of GMOs into the environment (including GM foods and field trials) 2) Immediate ban on the import of GM crops and foods. 3) Moratorium on agricultural R&Ds using GM technology. until strict legislations regarding biosafety and bioethics have been enacted and come into force. They also demanded: 4) Establishment of an independent institution to organize democratic debates on the health, ecological, societal and ethical consequences of Genetic Engineering. 5) Democratic participation in the regulatory decision-making. The action wasstopped around 3 p.m. when the police intervened to break the protest. Some of the activists and students were arrested and were released after being held for 3 hours. This is the DAMN News Email list http://damn.tao.ca To unsubscribe, send an email to majordomo@tao.ca Asking to: unsubscribe damn ***DAMN DISCLAIMER - IMPORTANT PLEASE NOTE*** DAMN receives many unsolicited reports and tries but can not verify all information contained within. DAMN therefore disclaims responsibility for the information in this message and urges you to contact the reporter personally for further verification. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 21:25:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21106 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:25:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA05598 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:22:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA05590 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:22:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14964 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:22:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.coin.missouri.edu (Mizzou-AS2-10.missouri.edu [128.206.205.58]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA729172 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:22:14 -0600 Message-ID: <36EF0503.3EA126F1@mail.coin.missouri.edu> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:27:32 -0600 From: Kevin Webb Reply-To: kwebb01@mail.coin.missouri.edu Organization: b01 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: NPR Report on Monsanto References: <002e01be7001$587e4120$68365281@edandsue.colostate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 Was there a story too? I just heard the commercial for Monsanto... Ed and Sue Sparling wrote: > Dear Sustainable Ag Network Subscribers: How did you all react to the > "All Things Considered piece on Monsanto?" My reaction was that the > Monsanto PR dept had a big hand in it. Interesting that Clinton is > going to give Fraley (former PR man for Monsanto) a medal. Ouch! I > have to wonder if tommorow's part 2 will incorporate a serious > consideration of concerns about the effects of bt GM plants on the > organic farming sector. It seems pretty irresponsible reporting if > Dan Charles (NPR reporter) hasn't talked to Charles Benbrook (for > example). Ed SparlingProfessor EmeritusDept Agric EconomicsColorado > State University To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 21:31:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21203 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA21105 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21003 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool033-max1.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.33]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12541; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EE72FE.72F0AF8A@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:04:30 -0800 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: UW release: acid linked to soil aging References: <000901be6c17$13d498a0$2b3325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 It is easy to see why the writers zeroed in on legumes and blame them. They will tell any kind of lies to support their opposition and sneering at organic methods, which in this case is done in a slanting/hidden way. Of course it is a lie. Everyone knows that legumes build up soil value, in any kind of rotation. I am grateful to these writers to hear about acacia value. I see that they readily fall down, did not know it was helpful to cut them at year 3 and utiize their soil addition. Also the idea of a legume monoculture. Thanks for that info. ===================== Argall Family wrote: > I am newly subscribed to Sanet. I have had a (very small) certified organic > orchard in south eastern Australia for some years, previously did some > conventional cattle farming, also very small. > > Steve Diver wrote > > >1. Why did the researchers suggest that natural sources of > nitrogen such as legumes (clovers, vetches, cover crops) > cause as much acidification as chemical nitrogen sources > (ammonium nitrate, anhydrous ammonia, etc.)??? > > This generalisation about plant effects does seem to need qualification. > Acacia spp actually raise pH while also fixing nitrogen. Hence, the value of > allowing/encouraging natural [here in Australia] regeneration of wattle > [Acacia] trees in an orchard when it is young. The wattles, a major pioneer > species here, grow quickly, most of them would if left alone fall over at > age 15-20, but if removed at 3 years or so will noto nly have done a major > job opening rock with invasive root systems, but also will (easily observed) > produce a nitrogen effect in the root area, for other trees/plants/pasture > for a couple of years at least. The rotting root systems also provide soil > benefit, apart from the nitrogen nodulation. These trees do not sucker, > unlike the nitrogen fixing pioneer Alder. > > Sadly, these facts on the value of wattles are known better to permaculture > people than to conventional farmers here, who clear out wattles (woody > weeds) and plant pasture adding superphosphate, believing that the rapid > performance of the newly cleared land is due to the phosphorus when it is > probably almost entirely due to the clearance of the nitrogen fixers and the > sulphuric acid in the super bag. > > I would think a major distinction should be made between use of legumes as > rotation, where they die or are dug back in, and constant maintenance of a > leguminous pasture. I have always had the (intuitive) view that no nitrogen > fixing plant with any brains, any more than any other organism, is concerned > about looking after others rather than itself. Maximum nitrogen effects are > likely to arise from allowing a succession away from the nitrogen fixer. > Keeping a nitrogen fixer in one place for a long time is likely to have > deleterious effects as with any other monoculture. > > Which is not to say that I disagree with the following, which emphasises > that it is not the legumes per se but the cultural practices associated with > their use which impact on soil negatively or positively. > > >If you think [Steve said] about long-term studies and real life situations > where > side by side farms are managed by organic or conventional > methods, I am pretty sure you'd find wide enough differences > in soil quality characteristics to disprove the statement that > nitrogen from legumes is just as harmful as chemical nitrogen.... > especially when viewed from a whole farm perspective, there are > humus complexes and soil foodwebs that can bind and fix nitrogen > thus preventing its ability to contribute towards soil acidification. > > Steve also wrote: > > >Interestingly, compost is known to raise the pH of acid soils > closer to neutral, as well as lowering the pH of basic soils > closer to neutral. Compost helps soils adjust towards neutral > whether the pH is high or low. > > ...which is why it is useful to regard composting as essentially simply an > acceleration, centralisation and intensification of good soil building > techniques, with some further health benefits if high temperatures are > established. > > One green manure technique for bringing available calcium into the > biological content of the soil, which is inexpensive on a small property, is > to spread inexpensive feed oats and cut the young (calcium scavenging) crop, > before it goes to seed. > > Dennis Argall > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 21:36:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21263 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA21417 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21287 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool033-max1.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.33]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13132; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EE84C3.6AE82950@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:20:19 -0800 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: prison labor in organic ag References: <124471940958@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 One main thing I heard from Ms. Sneed, was how/why so many of those people turned to crime. She really understands the frustration of those who have so many strikes on them to start with, and to the same hopeless environment to which they have to return.. She tries to give them some hope for something better, altho knowing some mayl never really change. The overall record for her is success--this program has really changed thinking of some, and all get something better to do than just sit inside and hate. I think people should all see her and hear her talk ==================== Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Hi Loren, > I just had to tell you that I think you were really harsh on the > person who proposed prison labor for organic farms. He/she might have > been totally off base for the reasons you mentioned, but I fully > believe that his/her intentions were good and didnt' deserve such a > cyber bashing. Maybe prison labor shouldn't be "farmed" out to > commercial operations, but surly the plight of prisoners is a sorry > one (and those of all the rest of us who then have to live with > criminals who come out of prisons even worse than when they entered) > and seeking solutions to this should be applauded, even if those > solutions need some tweeking. I almost never hear anyone proposing > anything constructive and regenerative for prisoners to do; all I ever > see on tv are people wanting to "lock 'em up forever and throw away > the key." Personally, I think there's enough work to go around for > all and prisoners just like immigrants aren't ever going to be in a > position to swipe all those good paying jobs from the rest of us. I > would rather see prisoners working on something constructive than just > honing their criminal skills and deepening their anger and violence > toward themselves and the rest of us (either we're "paying" their > salaries). So, please, stop screaming and overreacting to one > person's vision of a viable solution. > > > Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:41:47 -0800 > > From: Loren Muldowney > > Subject: Re: Organic Farming Economics > > > > > I've surmised that organic agriculture is so expensive because > > > the labor is so expensive. There is a free labor source waiting to be > > > tapped--prisons. > > > > This is probably a joke. I hope so. If I believed it could be sincere, > > I would respond with the following: > > > > - ------------------------------------- > > > > I may never stop screaming. > > > > I specifically boycott all goods made by prison labor, since it is > > exploitative of not only of prisoners, but more importantly of those > > working people who have NOT turned to crime as a lifestyle. > > > > The organic agriculture paradigm was created by shunning short-term > > economic theory. I don't think this will ever fly, if the consumers > > know about it; it would have to be kept from them intentionally. Since > > the point of organic marketing is to make full information available to > > the consumer, this lovely scenario would be better pursued in the > > "conventional" agriculture sphere. I just heard they are cutting the > > tails off of dairy cows for "economic" reasons, so probably they > > wouldn't bat an eye at this suggestion either. > > > > Not only that, but some our more sleazy mall stores have been using the > > "made in america" marketing, which appeals to those who deliberately > > support working non-criminal fellow citizens, to label goods made by > > prisoners as "made in america." It is a "solution" which "works" right > > at this moment, because many people are simply unaware that it is going > > on. Most people currently believe it to be illegal, being so clearly > > repugnant a concept. > > > > I can't wait to post this incredible suggestion at the natural foods > > coop and see everybody mobilize for the boycott. > > > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 21:36:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21272 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:36:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA21486 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21277 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA15432 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool033-max1.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.33]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12864; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EE806B.38E8738A@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:01:47 -0800 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Shoshanah.Inwood@oberlin.edu CC: Loren Muldowney , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, yolanda.p.cruz@oberlin.edu, jenna.hill@oberlin.edu Subject: Re: Organic Farming Economics Responce References: <1658552.3130251199@pac2.public.oberlin.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 Ms Sneed was "lucky" to be able to use a large empty field right beside the prison. She never suggested that prisoners be sent to farms to learn how to grow food. She tried to find a way to give them ssomething productive to do, and realized the pleasure they would get from seeing a plant they grew by themselves--something creative, something productive from their own hands. Most of them would never have even a yard to use, but some would go on and utilize the new skill. But at least it was good for them to work thiss way, and they were never required, just offered the chance. It was a wonderful idea and helped many in several ways. You should just hear her and see her slides. ================== Shoshanah.Inwood@oberlin.edu wrote: > --On Fri, Mar 12, 1999 4:40 PM -0500 "Shoshanah Inwood" > wrote: > > > Thank-you Michael for so eloquently explaining Catherine Sneeds program at > > the San Francisco prison. I believe her program is a model that can be > > expanded and applied throughout the country. > > > > Loren allow me to respond to your comments and expand on my initial > e-mail: > My initial e-mail was written in very simplistic terms and ideas for a > number of reasons. I was looking to gage the responsiveness of participants > in the field of organic/sustainable agriculture. I am fully aware that just > stating that prisoners should be put to work on organic farms is an > idealistic statement that leads to endless questions: such as how many and > what types of prisoners should be allowed to work on farms and how to ensure > farmer, community and prisoner safety. > I was looking to see how receptive people are to this idea especially the > farmers, where is their level of convertibility at? > > All one needs to do is read a newspaper to see how high recidivism rates > are. This indicates that the present criminal justice system is not > effective at deterring crime or "rehabilitating" prisoners. You object to > supporting those who have chosen a "criminal lifestyle", we need to ask why > have they chosen that life style. And if this is the only means of survival > they know, then it is logical to conclude that they will return to this > lifestyle once released from prison unless they are presented with other > alternatives. I am curious why you think that training prisoners to do farm > labor is so wrong, especially if it is non-exploitive. By boycotting > products made by prisoners you deny their existence and their right to be > productive citizens. People who are in prison have broken the law and > usually deserve to go to prison. But once they aquire the label of > "prisoner" do they automatically loose their humanity and all of their > rights? And I might add that even if an individual is in prison they are > still an American. > > > >> Many programs throughout the country involving prisoners growing > food(such as Sneed's project in San Francisco) donate a portion of the crop > to soup kitchens, back to the community from which many of the prisoners > came from. The prisoners are working to give something back to their > community and are learning about responsibility and building marketable job > skills. By working on farms, especially small organic farms prisoners would > have the opportunity to learn about marketing, accounting and advertising, > giving them experiences, which can open up worlds to them never before > known. > > > > Why would consumers not be told about who was growing there food? I > > would think people would appreciate knowing that the food they are buying > > is also an investment in their community. To reduce the anger and reduce > the crime rate, isn't this one of the major concerns in almost every city > and town in America? I have been a member of many different types of co-ops > and one of their commonalties is to promote and support improving local > communities: socially, politically and economically. Prison labor would be > helping local growers to increase their crop yield and their economic > survival. > > The future is a rapidly changing place, everyday we learn more about the > agri-chemical/life science companies genetically engineered products, along > with the effects of herbicides and pesticides. The challenge to organic > farming is to make it more cost effective so that it can be marketed and > readily available to a greater number of people at a lower cost. Yes this > is our capitalistic society. These are the confines we must operate within. > Sometimes you play with the bosses rules in order to win the game > > Shoshanah Inwood > > On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Loren Muldowney wrote > >> > >> ------------------------------------- > >> > >> I may never stop screaming. > >> > >> I specifically boycott all goods made by prison labor, since it is > >> exploitative of not only of prisoners, but more importantly of those > >> working people who have NOT turned to crime as a lifestyle. > >> > >> The organic agriculture paradigm was created by shunning short-term > >> economic theory. I don't think this will ever fly, if the consumers > >> know about it; it would have to be kept from them intentionally. Since > >> the point of organic marketing is to make full information available to > >> the consumer, this lovely scenario would be better pursued in the > >> "conventional" agriculture sphere. I just heard they are cutting the > >> tails off of dairy cows for "economic" reasons, so probably they > >> wouldn't bat an eye at this suggestion either. > >> > >> Not only that, but some our more sleazy mall stores have been using the > >> "made in america" marketing, which appeals to those who deliberately > >> support working non-criminal fellow citizens, to label goods made by > >> prisoners as "made in america." It is a "solution" which "works" right > >> at this moment, because many people are simply unaware that it is going > >> on. Most people currently believe it to be illegal, being so clearly > >> repugnant a concept. > > > > > > > >> I can't wait to post this incredible suggestion at the natural foods > >> coop and see everybody mobilize for the boycott. > > > > > > >> > Much of the prison population is illiterate, farm work is a learned low > >> > skill profession that does not require literacy. Individuals would be > >> > outside growing food which would provide emmence psychological and self > >> > esteem benefits as well as practical job skills for their futures after > >> > prison. > >> > >> Sounds like a great idea, if you propose that these people should be > >> taught to grow their own organic food for their own consumption. They > >> would learn all the skills and improve their diets. > >> > >> > What happens when > >> > they are released? How are they any better off? > >> > >> Then when they are released, they will know enough to begin organic > >> farming, and ride the crest of this wonderful wave of commerce. Surely > >> that's what you mean? > >> > > > > > > > > I'm curious if there are any farmers out there, who > >> > contract out to prisoners, and how open growers are to this idea. > >> > >> I suppose we'd all like to know that! Well, here's one more reason to > >> only buy from people we know personally. So much for the integrity of > >> commerce. > >> > >> Just when I think I can no longer be surprised..... > >> > >> Loren Muldowney > >> > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 16 21:45:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA21397 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:45:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA20905 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA20772 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from earthlink.net (pool033-max1.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.33]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12293; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:48:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36EE6FDB.6637A65A@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:51:08 -0800 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bluestem Associates CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" , "steved@ncatark.uark.edu" Subject: Re: UW release: acid linked to soil aging References: <199903111459.JAA24887@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 Oh, Oh, I think I recognize your name. Too bad. Anyway, I just must reply because there is a basic error in all of this, and that is the old, definitely outdated idea of ion absorption. People apparently just can't get out of this old rut. Plants do NOT absorb ions, they absorb whole molecules or particles, that are collections of molecules. The old idea, pictured in textbooks, of a root as being a naked projection of the stem, is floating in a soil solution of ions off the clay particles. That makes a nice neat picture, with 50 cents worth of ions from the root exchanging places with 2x25 cents worth from the clay particles--that kind of "exchange". All false. Based on academia's determination to get chemical fertilizer company grant money. Plants absorb molecules by endocytosis. It is time for everyone in agriculture to wake up and see what the real truth is. There was a time when endocytosis was a new discovery, with only a few scientists utilizing their electron mics to show this, but now you can find literally THOUSANDS of reports on endocytosis in plants, yes, in plants, in addition to the many more thousands of reports on endocytosis in other living entities. Also, calcium's importance is not concerning pH, but the actual tissue need by plants of this mineral. Albrecht was a strong advocate of the need for calcium, and altho his followers avidly quote almost all he said, and he based his writings on his extremely carefully acquired data from careful experiments, they still are stuck with the cation CEC stuff. He had to segregate individual ions to prove his point about the need and use of each mineral, but his followers have extrapolated, extended that to mean all fertilizing has to be properly based on CEC. They all forget that he stated that "nutrients to not have to be SOLUBLE to be AVAILABLE ". That was a very penetrating comment, esp. since at his time the electron mic photos were not extant. Had he seen those, I feel sure he would have corrected the huge trend today to continue basing ideas on CEC. His followers are not able to see how brilliant he was to recognize, without photographic proof, that plants could absorb items not is soluble (ionic) form. Albrecht was very insistent on the need for calcium because of what calcium does, as a mineral, not as a part of CEC. Current science literature is loaded with fairly new info on the many ways calcium is utilized by plants. For him to say it was the "prince of nutrients" was very smart of him, and now the current literature proves him right. Now there are whole books written about the important calcium uses. He should have lived to our time to see that. He was right, academia was wrong. Bluestem Associates wrote: > On Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:56:55 +0000, Steve Diver wrote: > > >> Thirty-seven years of data collected from a plot at the University > >> of Wisconsin-Madison's Arlington agricultural research station is > >> yielding alarming results: acidification from excess fertilizer is > >> wearing out the soil. > [snip] > >A couple of points come to mind: > > > >1. Why did the researchers suggest that natural sources of > >nitrogen such as legumes (clovers, vetches, cover crops) > >cause as much acidification as chemical nitrogen sources > >(ammonium nitrate, anhydrous ammonia, etc.)??? > > > [snip] > >2. The report also noted the importance of calcium, magnesium, > >and potassium; cation exhange capacity; and liming. > > > >This brings to mind the notion that eco-farming advisors who've > >been emphasizing base saturation and high calcium lime all these > >years may have clued into an important principle of good soil > >management way ahead of their time. > > I have not read the original paper yet, so what I say should be seen > more as an observation triggered by the comments than as a dierct > response to them. > > It seems at least reasonably logical that natural sources of nitrogen > will have somewhat the same effect as chemical analogues, especially in > high rainfall areas when nitrification rates are high. All nitrates are > soluble --- at least I can't remember a single metal that would > precipitate nitrate out of a solution --- so high nitrate situations > will result in calcium leaching, given enough water. > > Removing calcium from a soil has some fairly unfortunate effects on its > structure, usually reflected as a greater susceptibility to compaction. > Compaction robs yields, and as yields disappoint, what is the response > of most farmers (and Extension folks) ? --- more nitrogen --- which > strips more calcium, and off we go. I think this is one of the > least-appreciated vicious cycles in all agriculture, and there's no > compelling agronomic reason why it can't happen with leguminous > nitrogen or manure nitrogen, especially if the nitrogen is being > cranked up to push the yields. [editorial comment: just what we need, > eh? more #2 yellow corn ...] > > The "destruction of CEC" part of that article is intriguing. One > possibility might actually be only indirectly related to nitrogen. The > tendency in Wisconsin has been to keep soils absolutely awash in > soluble potash, while largely ignoring calcium. Apart from potatoes and > a couple of other horticultural crops, calcium is added to the soil > only to the extent that it is incidental to liming intended to adjust > pH. In high nitrate soil environments much of the exchangeable calcium > will be stripped off colloids, but that (in itself) shouldn't damage > the exchange site. > > Here's where the potassium may come into play. Those potassium ions can > sneak between the layers on the clay particles and (especially with > certain types of clay), pull the two clay layers together around the > ion, and lock the whole thing up. Those exchange sites will be > effectively lost to the soil from then on. So I'm speculating that the > nitrogen (by stripping calcium) *enables* potash to tighten up the > edges of certain clays, making their exchange sites unavailable for > future use. > > The effect may be particularly pronounced in conventional agriculture, > owing to that system's marked tendency to sacrifice organic matter for > short term yields (which may also feed into this whole loop by > increasing the compaction effect). Typical organic matter has a CEC of > about 200 meq/100g, or roughly ten times that in a clay loam. > Consequently, 2% OM in a soil is responsible for about 4 meq of CEC. On > the good organic farms there is enough OM in the soil that the portion > of CEC attributable to the clay fraction is of reduced functional > significance. > > Most university researchers try to hold equal all factors except those > under study. In the case of the UW work it leads me to suspect that in > the "organic" systems potash levels were kept just as high as on the > conventional side. If potash is actually a significant part of the > problem it would be quite likely that organic sources of nitrogen would > have something of the same effect as the "chemical" sources. > > I'd have to read the details of experimental design and see the data > before I went any farther down this path, but I don't think it's an > outrageous stretch to suggest that calcium and potash management may > have at least as much to do with the observed phenomena as the nitrogen > > Bart Hall > Lawrence, Kansas > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 02:54:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA25712 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:54:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA12140 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:05:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA12113 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:05:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA19812 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:05:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.236] (term5-21.vta.west.net [205.254.241.149]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA01818 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:03:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:04:54 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: USTR Working on Draft Retaliation List In Hormone-Raised Beef Spat With EU Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 Daily Report for Executives Tuesday, March 16, 1999 USTR Working on Draft Retaliation List In Hormone-Raised Beef Spat With EU The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative is finalizing a list of European Union products that could be subject to trade retaliation as early as July in a long-standing dispute over hormone-raised beef, U.S. Special Trade Negotiator for agriculture Peter L. Scher said March 15. Scher spoke to reporters after a Senate Finance Subcommittee on International Trade hearing on agriculture trade with China and the European Union. "We will exercise our rights," he said, affirming USTR's stance that the EU will face sanctions if it fails to meet a World Trade Organization deadline for bringing its regime into compliance with its international obligations. The USTR has already taken steps to slap $520 million in retaliatory tariffs on Europe for the EU's banana regime, which was twice ruled WTO-illegal. Importers of various products are required to post bonds on certain products to cover potential 100 percent tariffs. In beef, the WTO Appellate Body in January 1998 confirmed an earlier ruling by a WTO dispute settlement panel that the decade-old EU policy of banning hormone-treated beef was illegal under WTO rules. A WTO arbiter last May ordered the EU to comply with the ruling and lift the ban by May 13, 1999. The senators were skeptical. "My guess is come May 13 we're still talking," subcommittee chairman Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) said. Scher reiterated that USTR will seek retaliatory tariffs as soon as 60 days after May 13, as allowed under WTO rules. And he pointed to the banana case as evidence of the administration's resolve. "This is not about bananas. This is about rules," he said. "... If we're willing to go to that mat on bananas, we're certainly willing to go to the mat on beef." The EU has expressed interest in a compromise that would require U.S. beef to be labeled as originating in the United States. But differences remained over how the labeling was to be done--and the EU asked for more time for additional studies, a request USTR denied. The special negotiator said no fewer than 17 EU studies on hormone-treated beef have already been conducted. "This has been a ban in search of a justification for 10 years now," he said. Biotechnology Key In a related area, a State Department official testified at the hearing that the most pressing agricultural trade concern with the EU may be the broader area of biotechnology, including genetically modified organisms. "Within a few years, virtually 100 percent of U.S. agricultural commodity exports will be genetically modified or mixed with GMO products," he said. "... We of course respect the EU's right to have a system of government oversight for GMOs. No government can abdicate its responsibility to have a system in place to ensure the safety of food, feed, and the environment. But the system must be predictable, transparent, efficient, and scientifically based--and in the case of the EU, it is none of the above." A significant problem is the negative public perception of biotechnology in Europe, due to media misinformation, he said. "This has so slanted the European public's views on the issue that governments are reluctant to undertake perfectly appropriate, but politically difficult, regulatory decisions," Eizenstat said. The State Department and other agencies are developing a public-relations campaign for Europe on hormone-treated beef and biotechnology in general, he said. Sanctions Bill in Works In comments to reporters after the hearing, Eizenstat said the Clinton administration is working with Sens. Richard G. Lugar (R-Ind.), Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.), and Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del) on a sanctions-reform bill. "We think it's important to have comprehensive sanctions reform," Eizenstat said. Lugar has introduced bills in the 106th Congress that order the president to review all unilateral economic sanctions (S. 101) and that prohibit agricultural products from being included in future sanctions packages (S. 566). The latter bill mirrors a measure, H.R. 817, introduced by Rep. Thomas W. Ewing (R-Ill.) in the House. Eizenstat said the administration is willing to supplement any bill with executive orders. By Chad Bowman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 02:54:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA25716 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA12145 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:05:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA12119 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:05:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha.matrixinet.com (alpha.matrixinet.com [205.254.232.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA19815 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:05:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.236] (term5-21.vta.west.net [205.254.241.149]) by alpha.matrixinet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA01821 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:03:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:04:57 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: UK: re: the cost of segregating GMOs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id CAA12121 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 HOW TO PRICE WHAT WE PUT ON OUR PLATE New Scientist 27 February 1999 By Debora MacKenzie FOR MOST PEOPLE, the main question about GM food is: do I have to eat it or not? If we are to have that choice, GM crops will have to be segregated from plough to plate and all products containing GM food labelled as such. The US government claims that this would impose heavy costs on its food suppliers. It threatens a trade war if the European Union responds to public pressure by demanding segregation of GM crops within US exports. But a new analysis suggests that the costs of segregation and labelling are manageable, and could even enhance trade. "This could be the only key to easing public acceptance of biotechnology," says Allan Buckwell, an agricultural economist at Wye College near Ashford, Kent. Buckwell presented his findings in Brussels earlier this month. He says that similarly stringent segregation--although not on the basis of genetic modification--is already widespread. "Different varieties of wheat, for bread or pasta, are already strictly separated from farm gate to production plant," he says. And in the US, soya growers already distinguish beans used in different kinds of tofu for export to Japan. The cost of such segregation is not prohibitive, say Buckwell and his colleague Graham Brookes. For example, soya growers and processors in the US separate and label beans with different protein and oil contents for an extra cost of just 6 to 9 per cent compared with unsegregated beans. Soya growers in Brazil distinguish GM from non-modified soya for a premium of 10 to 15 per cent. European dealers separate maize with a high oil content for 17 per cent extra cost, while US producers do it for 6 per cent. Canadian farmers distinguish GM from normal oilseed rape, or canola, for an 8 per cent premium. And costs will come down, says Buckwell, if segregation becomes widespread. The organisation that commissioned the Wye College study remains sceptical, however. The Food Biotech Communications Initiative, which represents companies such as Monsanto, Coca-Cola and Nestl, concludes that segregation will increase food costs by "as much as 150 per cent". But this interpretation assumes that food labelled as non-GM has to be absolutely pure. In practice, regulators are likely to allow food to carry such a label if contamination with GM materials is below a certain level. The EU, which is currently debating its labelling criteria, is considering tolerances for GM contamination for individual ingredients of around 1 per cent. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 10:20:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA01792 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:20:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA08897 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:11:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08867 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:11:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26579 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (monk-a-asy-6.rutgers.edu [165.230.176.74]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29376; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:07:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36EFE311.6AF1@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:14:57 -0800 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU, homestead@listserv.oit.unc.edu CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Monsanto & GM seeds to be subject of NPR "All Things Considered" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 If you can use the RealAudio software, you can hear the NPR piece on genetically modified seed and the Monsanto company for yourselves at: http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/archives/1999/current.html That's for today, for tomorrow, you'll probably have to hunt through the archives, but it will still be accessible somehow. Transcripts may also be ordered for some cost. LM To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 10:52:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02473 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:52:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA29704 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:44:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29638 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:44:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.009EE4BF@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 9:44:39 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 17 Mar 99 09:44:36 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 17 Mar 99 09:44:22 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:44:19 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Monsonto's price In-reply-to: <199903161332.IAA02238@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <12B645E001B2@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 > "The speed at which GM organisms have been developed and introduced by > multinational companies and the scientific community has left many people > completely unaware of and uninvolved in the process," the panel said. I was talking to a friend of mine today who happens to be stock broker and I asked him what's going on with Monsonto stock (wondering to myself how all this bruhaha we've been reading about lately re. the backlash against GMOs is effecting the bottom line over there) and he told me that it had been in a holding pattern for some time, but recently it's gone up (!!). He says that there are rumors of a takeover. Anyway, it would seem that whatever resistence to GE is brewing out there, it isn't giving off any economic signals yet to dampen the GE enthusiasm... Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 10:55:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02558 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA28067 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:43:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27969 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:43:14 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7TJRa08602 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:42:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:42:24 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Agrogastronomia Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 206 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA27988 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 Agrogastronomia 900 miles south to Zapopan, Jalisco from Austin, mostly on Mexico 54, a major portion of the inter-American freight route that doesnt compare well even with Iowas county blacktops. 54 is getting beat up day and night by CFI, Schneider and a lot of trucks with Arkansas plates no doubt hauling for Walmart. Mexico needs Walmart like a another sunny day. I dont mean to hammer Mexican road-builders, its just that one doesnt drop NAFTA into a glass of water and expect it to turn into Cabernet Sauvignon. That hollering one hears in Texas about the massively increased north-south truck traffic-and the lack of federal planning to handle it- resonates quite well here in Mexico. The big fellahs are tearing up roadbed and bridges built when Lazaro Cardenas was president, and few of them will bear the increased pounding once a lot more of the smaller light- manufacturing operations go on-line. That eventual burden will be in addition to the increase in local rubber bumping along. The short-haul tankers, belly-dumps, low-boys, buses and farm tractors all tread along, amid fretfully groping Gringos pulling an Izusu Rodeo behind their motels on wheels. Aiy-Chihuahua. I saw one 100 horsepower Deere hauling a 12 foot disc rip up two feet of pavement a hundred meters in front of me as he pulled across the thoroughfare - the pavement frequently drops off 6-8 inches to the "shoulder" ( abyss). Up went the front wheels, down went the discs, traction, and up came the asphalt. He didnt look back, so it must be a commonplace. Seen often are what everyone in anything less than a Suburban should justly fear rolling aside them on the interstate: the "doble-remolques", twin forty- foot trailers hauled in tandem behind a driver who should have a wide-angle video remote on the tail-end in order to see what is going on behind this chopped-off escapee from a railroad. The iron horse is pulling its weight though: I saw a seemingly endless line-up of empty double-decker cattle cars headed south when I was coming into Laredo. Which sort of brings me around to the food part of my essay. Having learned from my last fast in Oklahoma, I hauled some stuff with me this time: the fruit, trail-mix, Scandicrackers and garlic saw me through the desert between Saltillo and Zacatecas. It was a real desert, not just a metaphor, i.e., where fast-food is the sand and coke is the water. Got lost in Zacatecas at noon- time trying to intuit an eatery, then turned back around south for Guadalajara, and saw El Fuente minding its own business on the side of the road in Cieneguillas across from a fairly new Fanta soda pop plant. Ah: factory, plus restaurant equals lunch. Just in the nick of time, I walked in before the plant personnel poured across the highway. El Fuente means" The Source. It was aptly named and this is what I got for three dollars and seventy cents: a beer, a bowl of soup, a little plate of rice, some homemade pork rinds, 6 homemade corn tortillas and a plateload of pork chile verde and beans. I ignored the pork rinds and analyzed the soup and rice. The soup was approximately 2/3 of a quart in volume with fresh carrots, onions and zucchini surrounding a thick bone to which five good bites of beef were still attached. Like the soup, the rice also had scratch vegetables in it. The main course was unnecessary but I cleared it off like the good gourmand that I am. I just looked it up to be sure that "gourmand" also infers indulgence, but according to Microsoft it doesnt, therefore theyre wrong and I ate the chile verde because it tasted so good. Between Zacatecas and Zapopan the desert slowly unclenches and fields, watered by aqueducts running down from local impoundments, begin to green. The further south you run, the more irrigated agriculture you encounter, until bananas and guavas and avocados begin to show up. These are watered by the sky. I was absolutely charmed by small patches of alfalfa, some no more than 2000 square feet in area, groomed and cared for like they were filled with snapdragons and delphiniums. I had to pull off to make sure one field was carrots and it was. The corn is laid into upright stacks and then a farmer with a PTO driven grinder cuts the piles into pieces and sacks it up for livestock back at the corral. Tomatoes are still coming on, while spent fields are on the other side of the road. The citrus and guavas were uneven in appearance. Being that they were on hillsides where its hard to bring fertility, it may have been a nitrogen deficiency, but I guessed mites too. Although it might have been last years freeze that knocked them back. Outside of Villanueva the eucalyptus trees are growing out from the roots, with tall dead trunks above them. There was wheat about a foot and half high and some nice stands of oats, and women and children were having a lot of fun knocking down nuts from trees with sweat-marked poles I imagined their parents might have used years ago. Heading into Jalisco I began to see roadstand signs that read "coffee" and "mangos". I fear it is too dry though, and has been droughty for awhile. Some of the reservoirs have three-year vegetation growing in their far reaches. Some irrigation authority should suggest that the farmers not water at midday with a twenty knot wind blowing, but for all the know-how we have north of the Rio Grande, that sort of caution goes unheeded as you can readily see throughout the southwestern deserts we have borrowed with all that dammed up water. Hook it up, fire it off and walk away. It is old technology, but I am a real sucker for aqueducts, especially the little ones made of bricks and concrete running alongside a nice patch of black dirt. And the furrow-irrigation, so outmoded and wasteful, is still so satisfying to maintain and coax along all the way to, hopefully, the end of the row. Don Miguel Torres made us water corn like that in California. I wanted to put out drip tape, and he said: " Get out of here with your plastic. The corn wants a lot of water, and when the water goes down to the roots the roots keep following the water and then the corn wont fall over. Let me water this corn like I want to." Anything you say boss, and he was all that. Production problems associated with shallow watering in concert with synthetic fertilizer at the root zone tend to reinforce the idea that deep watering does make some sense. Short roots from drip irrigation; short roots, greater risk. But in the coming age of water scarcity, I think well see more drip tape in agriculture before we see fewer golf courses in the small ball meccas of Arizona. Six hours out of Zacatecas I cleared the ridge above Guadalajara, having had the good fortune to have passed an achingly slow freighter ominously marked " Materiales Peligrosos" ( Dangerous Materials) on the last brief straight-away before entering twenty five kilometers of hairpins, cliffs, and deep drops into the Achichito and Rio Verde watersheds. Parked "safely" in the confines of Hell-Bat-Town, Jalisco, I had that old mealtime dilemma once again confronting me. At least I found hotel quarters before the sun went down. These drivers seem to speed it up once the delivery vans are parked, and its a regular Daytona in downtown Guadalajara after dark. I wished I could change out of my Red Wings so I could carry myself a little more quickly across the boulevards. " No problem," the hotel desk clerk said, " There is a Burger King around the block on the Avenida Avilla Camacho." When I winced slightly, she pointed out that there was also a typical grill just down the Jorge Alvarez del Castillo. So I showered and walked down to " Rubens", and for four dollars and twenty cents I had the following: First, I got a basket of small, fried corn tortillas, four big containers filled with salsas and pico de gallo, and a bowl of guacamole that you would pay four bucks American for in Austin. The waiter alerted me to the fact that with my order of cerdo adobado I got a free trip to the salad bar. I nixed the iceberg and loaded up on beets, garbanzos, onions and cucumbers. No dressing. The beets were scratch, and I could tell because there was a small, knobby, double-rooted beet cut up in the server, and they were earthy and crunchy- fresh. My, what big garbanzos you have, Guadalajara! I destroyed the guacamole. Then, superfluously, came the meal: Way too much grilled pork loin in adobado sauce, fried scratch potatoes that tasted like potatoes, a bowl of charro beans, a pile of sliced tomatoes, a soup bowl filled with fresh, sauted onions and jalapenos, the corn tortillas that I watched the woman make from behind her glassed-in theater, and two beers. I made up my mind to take a long walk after dinner and skip breakfast. The perfumed streets were lined with flowering trees, and I noted that one distinct proof against graffitti is to cover the wall with a living thing like Bougainvilla or ivy. Rubens throws you a real curve-ball. You walk in thinking: this is going to be too Gringofied, since its pretty close to the University and is across the street from an English language school. Just a hunch. And its sharp, and gleaming and had two TV sets tuned to dueling, different soccer games, one in Germany, the other in Peru. The waiters walk by with their arms loaded with food, watch one play for half the trip across the room, and then focus on the other game as they reach their destination. When the announcer yells: GOAL! in there, Ill bet it gets interesting. Do not succumb to the Romanticized observations of one lucky traveler, because we all rhapsodize about these fundamental, probably fleeting, food truths of Mexico. Though scratch cooking is definitely more available, particularly where a novice is least inclined to experiment, like the public market, Mexico is hurtling toward processed convenience with a Keep Up With the Joneses vengeance. The big supers are wall to wall with the name brands most good Greens have learned to avoid like the plague they are. I remember how disappointed I felt when my friend Angel Perea told me that his wife, an ace scratch cook, was "enchanted" by McDs French fries. And Ralph Nader owns stock in DuPont. Now that I am once again in a place where they give away avocados, I want to know what happened to the US avocado market. Something doesnt seem to fit, and its not because I have been eating too many. After all the hard work that Angie Dickinson and Calavo did getting people to eat them, the large, quality avocado is mysteriously missing. And the resulting guacamole is like green caviar: dearly priced. Even in California all one sees at retail are small sizes, and when encountered in Minneapolis or Iowa City at $1.39 each for around four bites of overripe mush, I have to figure either the avo-deal has a life of its own or has evolved into retail loss-leader diversification without rationale, like hustling star fruit and plantains makes sense because Frieda Kaplan has written it on her stone tablets. Not to be unnecessarily tough on Friedas Finest; man what a sticker program, which may yet prod a doubting public to eat more winter squash. Not organic though. I took a nice meeting with them ten years ago on that subject: not enough margin to share in the pipeline. In a word, savvy. Friedas already walks and talks like uncommon product, somehow making production practices immaterial because of all that purple hype: a strange halo of wholesomeness graces these exotic experiments on behalf of the global palate. Avocado production is a big NAFTA battle ground. Being fairly freeze intolerant, they wont thrive much above San Luis Obispo on the California coast, and their prime growing areas, particularly the flat ground around Escondido and Ventura, has gone under the blade, leaving production to the tender hillsides, which are more susceptible to a host of management problems, including harvesting and erosion of the already thin and unstable soils. They also dont like smog. Stateside scarcity leads at least to dependably steady prices. I remember the avo-rollercoaster years when growers just let them drop. And then, there was Angie. Meanwhile, today in Mexico, where they are native, avo export is a built machine stymied by protectionism masked by phytosanitary fears. I am completely in conformance with the idea of not importing another exotic baddie where they arent already, but the idea of bringing a disease into the US on the fruit begs one to imagine how a spent avocado shell will get pitched into a disease-free orchard and engender the calamity. Stranger disasters have happened, and some of them were unintended reversals of theory. Instead of shipping them whole, the going industry here is sending frozen avo- puree, either because of the fresh export restrictions or because trucking a highly perishable product of which a significant portion is not utilized, except as compost, ends up being too great a percentage of the actual value. Fifteen dollars a box, FOB Uruapan sounds like a money maker to me though. Five or six bucks per to get it up to Nogales or Laredo and to cross it, five per to shove them around some more, and thats guacamole. If that sounds too simple, it probably is. Two years ago when I was rambling around in Michuoacan I saw whole mountains planted to three to five year old Hass orchards, and observed quite a few commercial nurseries filled with trees close to planting age. I readily own up to my schizophrenia over globalization. Is the export market supposed to make sense, is the most cogent question. Will the Free-For-All to come be self-equalized by the market valves, self-activating with textbook facility instead of historical upheaval? Consumers can generally take or leave the avocado, but people who have planted them and waited five years to market them are less likely to shrug it off if corporate fields in Chinzamvia throw the fruit at the consumers basket for momentary pennies, waiting for market monopoly to kick in. Round and Round it goes, and where it stops, nobody knows. But those who pretend are better paid than popular journalists. How the Hass outclassed the rest of the field is intriguing as well. Ever eaten, or for that matter seen a Bacon, a Rincon or a Fuerte? None of them have bumpy black skins. The bumpy helps the shelf-life, the black tells you they are ripe without having to mash them into guac at point of purchase. I think they tend to have if not a superior flavor one that isnt inferior to any other, and the Hass tend to be not as watery as Bacons and Rincons. My grandparents had a massive Fuerte in the backyard which we ate from and made dubious charity from among the passive neighbors in the middle-class southern California town where they lived for decades. " Uh, yeah sure, Morris. Thanks, and say hi to Edna for us," Mr. Blankenship might mumble, semi-startled to suddenly have a 15 pound bag of them thrust upon him. " Are you sure he likes them, grandad? " I cautiously inquired as we returned to the Pontiac. " Seems to!" He said, hopefully defiant. In 1972 I odd-jobbed for a millionaire coot in Escondido, hauling empty picking bins into and full ones back from his avocado orchards. He had carefully pinned a recording plate on every tree and measured each years yields, hand-punching the year and yield in each patinaed plate. Some of his Hass trees each gave over a ton of fruit in their prime. But he had made his fortune in salvage when storm water flushed a 40s-era army base full of first cut redwood planks onto his riparian ground. I think he was prouder of that than of the trees, but he was already sideways with reality. Years later, Steve and Ben Moore let me live in their avocado orchard, where I gained much admiration for this exceptionally sustaining food. Seven years among the Hass, and the only thing Im spoiled over was the price. If they hit the ground, they were either mine, Miguels , the Moores, or a lucky find for a coyote. A key market rule is that grounders dont get shipped. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 13:06:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07076 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA11219 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:52:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11117 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:52:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00117 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:52:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-44.nidlink.com [216.18.141.51]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA18279; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:52:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990317171519.00943ef8@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:15:19 -0800 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: NPR Piece on Monsanto,Etc Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 Much could and needs to be said about the NPR piece on Monsanto (part I), the Dupont-Pioneer deal, Monsanto's stock price, and the prospects for farmers to make a living growing soybeans in the U.S. But for now just a few points. The NPR piece shows what good PR can do and get for a company that knows how to "work with" the media. Not a bright day for NPR. What amazes me is that senior Monsanto officials can get away, unchallenged, with saying things like "RR beans lowered their (farmers') costs and raised their yields." The evidence is now overwhelming and indisputable that average yields of RR varieties are about 4-6% less than conventional varieties. The definitive and most recent comparative analysis was carried out by Dr. E.S. Oplinger of the Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison, who has managed a North Central regional project assessing soybean varietal performance for years. Dr. Oplinger compared yields of 5,172 conv. varieties paired with 3,067 RR varieties in 8 states in 1998. The RR varieties yielded between 86% and 113% of the conv., and average yields were 96% of conventional. There were just two areas where RR did better -- Illinois and southern Michigan. Outside these areas the average yield drag was greater, on the order of 6% to 8% (data from "Performance of Transgenetic Soybeans -- Northern US," Dr. E.S. Oplinger, M.J. Martinka, and K.A. Schmitz, Dept. of Agronomy, UW-Madison). This places the minimal average yield drag at about 2 bushels per acre, or $10.00 (and it was much more on many farmers). That $10.00 plus the technology charge, plus the 2-3 applications of Roundup (not the one alleged in the piece), plus the 2 or 3 other herbicide a.i.s that must be applied make for the most expensive soybean seed+weed management system in modern history -- between $40.00 and $60.00 per acre depending on rates, weed pressure, etc. Not long ago, in 1985, the average seed plus weed costs on farms in Illinois was $26.72 per acre (USDA cost of production data), and represented 23% of total variable costs; now, they represent 35-40%. (For details and data sources, see the paper I did for the Univ. of Illinois symposium at ). No wonder Monsanto is throwing in free resprays and replanting, and other crop insurance-like benefits as an added bonus. Every independent set of data, recent analysis of RR beans I have seen reaches the same conclusion; the technology increases costs somewhat, but imposes a "price" farmers are willing to pay for the simplicity/robustness of the weed management system. Oplinger et al. end their paper saying: "It is anticipated that soybean growers will continue to increase acres planted to RR varieties and will sacrifice yield for ease of weed control." They will also sacrifice some net income per acre. This is a perfectly rational reason for farmers to adopt the technology; weed management is probably the number one management challenge all soybean farmers face. Monsanto should not be ashamed to cite these reasons in explaining why the technology is being adopted. But Monsanto needs to drop the "feeding the world", "lowering costs", "lowering pesticide use" claims because they do not hold water and will undermine, further, the reputation of the corporation, and in so doing feed the already considerable cynicism abroad about the trustworthiness of this company. While Monsanto does not seem to worry much about losing consumer trust in Europe and Japan, U.S. farmers (and the U.S. government) should be concerned and will, in the end, pay the price if the effort to drive RR beans down the throats of Europeans backfires into a search for non-GMO soybeans from other countries. Plus, things are not getting any better down on the farm. Soybean prices are way down, export markets are soft. As weed shifts continue in areas planted heavily to RR beans, and as resistance spreads to additional weed species (the first signs of tolerant weeds are appearing in several states), farmers will have to increase rates of Roundup applications and intensify use of other active ingredients, to fill gaps in control. Costs will rise, the income squeeze will get even worse. Contrary to a Monsanto scientist's claim on the NPR piece, Roundup does not kill everything green except for transgenic crop varieties. If that were the case, most farmers using RR systems would not be applying at least 2, and on many farms, three additional active ingredients. Someone posted that Monsanto's stock price is holding. Keep watching that space. The Dupont-Pioneer deal seals off the most likely route to salvation for Monsanto -- Dupont's deep pockets. Monsanto is desperate for a new partner to help cover its $700 million plus cost of capital, etc from the seed mergers of the past few years. Not too many companies around that can float that sort of cost. There remain a couple of major deals to go in the pesticide and seed industries, and then it will be, for all intents and purposes, over. Expect Monsanto, Zeneca, American Home Products, Novartis, and Bayer to be involved in a few additional mega-deals in the next 12-24 months. We will have one industry where we used to have two, and 4-6 major players where there used to be a couple of dozen, and many dozen regionally significant players. No one has much of an idea, nor any credible way to project the consequences of these changes. Its unchartered water in turbulent times. We are all invited along for the ride, which will be exciting and at times divisive, as the economic interests of one part of the agricultural system (probably farmers) suffer at the expense of other players. There will be many surprises, positive and negative. What seems clear to me, in any event, is that public institutions and policies, like those governing research, technology returns, intellectual property, markets, information, are not keeping up and that new forces shaping the performance of the new seed+pesticide industry will largely emerge within the private sector, from the demand side, both farmers for inputs and consumers for food. chuck benbrook Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 13:13:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07304 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:13:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27559 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:16:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27549 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:16:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00554 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:16:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from markbert ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.56) with SMTP id 494; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:21:56 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990317075222.00b87200@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:52:22 -0600 To: "Ed and Sue Sparling" , From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: Re: NPR Report on Monsanto Cc: In-Reply-To: <002e01be7001$587e4120$68365281@edandsue.colostate.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 I was on an previous NPR show about biosafety/biotech in which my impression from the NPR producer was that they she and NPR were pro-biotech and pro-monsanto. On the show that was aired I had one sentence and then there were 4 strong proponents of biotech. How about some calls to NPR to complain?? At 04:04 PM 3/16/99 -0700, Ed and Sue Sparling wrote: >>>> Dear Sustainable Ag Network Subscribers: How did you all react to the "All Things Considered piece on Monsanto?" My reaction was that the Monsanto PR dept had a big hand in it. Interesting that Clinton is going to give Fraley (former PR man for Monsanto) a medal. Ouch! I have to wonder if tommorow's part 2 will incorporate a serious consideration of concerns about the effects of bt GM plants on the organic farming sector. It seems pretty irresponsible reporting if Dan Charles (NPR reporter) hasn't talked to Charles Benbrook (for example). Ed Sparling Professor Emeritus Dept Agric Economics Colorado State University <<<< Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org/iatp To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 15:04:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09619 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:04:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA02398 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:11:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02379 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:11:46 -0500 (EST) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id fSCAa14285; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:06:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1cb2d19a.36effd4a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:06:50 EST To: rdhc@earthlink.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: npr story on monsanto GE Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 Well, you know, we SANeters are bound to be disappointed (as I was) by any program about biotech, just because we've already been so well informed, thanks to SANet. Frankly, I'm glad to see/hear ANYthing on the subject from ANY of the media (as long as it's not a Monsanto commercial). If that program gets 10 people thinking about an issue they were not even aware of, I call that a Good Thing. (Betty) Ann Gras To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 16:00:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11098 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:00:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA17696 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:44:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17640 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:44:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA03833 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:44:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA22640; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:44:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199903171944.NAA22640@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, CIAS.staff@aae.wisc.edu Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:58 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Greenspan Says World Troubles Hurt U.S. Farmers CC: fhbuttel@facstaff.wisc.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 Howdy, all-- So, since when has Alan Greenspan set himself up as spokesdude for the J. Random Powerful Pinstriped Guy Ministry of Agricultural Production System Expertise? This appeared in today's /SF Chronicle/. Notice that his touted "characteristic ambiguity" doesn't include his advice to farmers. Efficiency...productivity...latest technology. Keep saying it. Sooner or later my eyes are bound to glaze over. pax misha ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Greenspan Says World Troubles Hurt U.S. Farmers Fed chairman sees technology as means to increase efficiency Sam Zuckerman, Chronicle Staff Writer Wednesday, March 17, 1999 Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan came to San Francisco yesterday to speak just hours after the Dow Jones industrial average briefly crashed through the 10,000 barrier for the first time ever. But the Fed chairman didn't utter a word about the market because high finance wasn't on his mind. Greenspan, who has frequently voiced his worries about speculation in stocks and coined the phrase ``irrational exuberance'' several thousand Dow points back, chose the occasion to speak about the U.S. farm economy. While the overall U.S. economy experiences a remarkable mix of robust growth, low unemployment and low inflation, ``agriculture has been one of the more notable soft spots,'' Greenspan noted, hurt by worldwide weakness in commodity prices. Greenspan's choice of San Francisco as a venue to speak about farming wasn't as odd as it seemed at first glance. His audience at the Moscone Center consisted of more than 2,000 community bankers in town for a convention of the Independent Bankers Association of America, many from small-town banks that specialize in loans to farmers. The Fed chief's outlook for the broader economy was, as usual, ambiguous and delivered in his characteristic on-the-one-hand, on-the- other-hand style. The healthy U.S. economy ``is partly the result of influences that may prove transitory, but a number of fundamental strengths imply more lasting benefits,'' he said. Greenspan noted that, after eight years of economic growth, ``the economy appears stretched in a number of dimensions, implying considerable upside and downside risks to the economic outlook.'' Weakness in farm prices reflects the sick economies of key trading partners such as Japan and Russia, which have cut back their imports of U.S. agricultural products. Farmers won't see better times until troubled economies overseas recover, he warned. To survive under these conditions, farmers must keep on making themselves more efficient and more productive by using the latest technology, Greenspan said. c1999 San Francisco Chronicle Page B1 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 21:59:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19310 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:59:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA00776 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:08:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.inreach.com (mail.inreach.com [209.142.0.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA00761 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:08:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from walacres.ptdprolog.net (209-142-19-236.oak.inreach.net [209.142.19.236]) by mail.inreach.com (8.8.8/8.8.6/(InReach)) with SMTP id RAA26305 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:56:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990317181131.007d16d0@mail.inreach.com> X-Sender: farmbox@mail.inreach.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:11:31 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Diane Joy Goodman Subject: NPR Piece on Monsanto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 I did not listen to the broadcast but know that NPR does listen to response and frequently will air program segments that have valid opposing information. I don't believe individual comments to NPR would be very effective against Monsanto's PR savvy, but a letter noting Chuck Benbrook's RR soybean yield statistics, references to the European movement refusing gmo soybeans, and substantial additional scientific data from credible authorities, organized in a timely way and signed by nationally visible organizations may lead to equal air time. NPR needs only to be convinced (which would not be difficult to do) that there is as much unavailable information about the negative impact of Monsanto's promotion of its gmo products as there is of the perceived benefits. Anyone care to jump in on this ? Chuck? Diane Joy Goodman farmbox@inreach.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 22:26:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19904 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:26:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA17722 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:32:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (grunt.ksu.ksu.edu [129.130.12.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA17710 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:32:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from facts.ksu.edu (mailhost.facts.ksu.edu [129.130.156.200]) by mailhub.cns.ksu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/mailhub+tar) with ESMTP id UAA13226 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:32:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from FACTS/MERCURY by facts.ksu.edu (Mercury 1.21); 17 Mar 99 20:32:14 CST6CDT Received: from MERCURY by FACTS (Mercury 1.21); 17 Mar 99 20:30:45 CST6CDT Received: from FACTS by facts.ksu.edu (Mercury 1.21); 17 Mar 99 20:30:39 CST6CDT From: "Charlie Griffin" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:29:54 -600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: NPR Piece on Monsanto In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19990317181131.007d16d0@mail.inreach.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Message-ID: <13B8B9E13743@facts.ksu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 I heard the piece tonight on the evening NPR while on the road. Help me understand if I heard one part correctly. I believe it was said that Monsanto "agents" go around to fields suspected of having planted illicit seeds and go onto the property and spray a few selected soybean plants with Roundup, then come back the next day and see if the plants died. If not, they consider it evidence of having RR beans and pursue legal recourse. Is this really the way it happens? And if they go onto private land of a producer not dealing with RR beans, spray Roundup and kill some plants, have they not damaged someone's crop, even if it is just a few plants? And if it were an organic operation, would they not have just ruined someone's certification by introducing spray? Please tell me this isn't the way it's really happening? Perhaps I've missed some vital details along the way. Charlie Griffin To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 22:28:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19924 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:28:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21547 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:42:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cornell.edu (cornell.edu [132.236.56.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21507 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:42:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from cu-dialup (D1824.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.236.108]) by cornell.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA06446 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:42:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990317214147.00e2a7c4@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: gwg2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) -- [Cornell Modified] Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:41:47 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Gilbert W. Gillespie Jr." Subject: Articles in The Futurist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAA21509 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Those SANETters suffering from low blood pressure may find relief in the latest issue of The Futurist (April 1999, volume 33, No. 4). (Warning: this is merely a testimonial, the safety and efficacy of this treatment have been neither established scientifically nor approved by the FDA.) Steven C. Blank, an extension economist from UC-Davis and author of "The End of the American Farm?" (pp. 22-27), draws from his 1998 bookThe End of Agriculture in the American Portfolioto argue that agriculture is becoming uncompetitive in the US and that we ought to give up the outdated notion of producing food in the U.S. and import it from places that can produce it more cheaply. If I were to criticize Blank, I would do so for not mentioning the promise of biotech for eliminating agriculture all together (a prospect that should prevent rational land grant administrators from hiring any new production scientist faculty members younger than 50). Some excerpts that I hope fairly capture the main content: "Most Americans could not care less if farming and ranching disappear, as long as they get their burgers and fries. Americans will waddle on. The U.S. economy no longer needs agriculture and is rapidly outgrowing it...family farms have become an expensive lifestyle that America cannot afford; it is an inefficient use of resources that is becoming a hobby that leads to bankruptcy...The high costs of producing food in America, compared with the costs in poorer countries are pushing American producers out of business as foreign competitors develop enough to serve the same markets" (p. 22). "Some people may worry that leaving agriculture behind and shifting to imported commodities may cause Americans to miss a meal or two. But the United States has been importing an increasing amount of food for years, and American's waistlines are growing not shrinking" (p. 23). "Is this decline in farm numbers [about 33,000 farms per year since 1969] something to fear? No, it is an improvement in the efficience of American's economy" (pp. 24-25). [On two unnamed rural sociologists, one from Missouri and one from Iowa] "The sociologists are so busy worrying about the institution of family farming that they ignore the bottom line: There is no rural America' anymore, and the people trying to hang on to the outdated version of farming are simply holding on to a bad investment...American agriculture is heading for the last roundup...Especially at this point in history, when American agriculture leads the world in almost every way, it is startling to think that the country will not need farmers or ranchers for much longer. But it is true...We need to strip away the romance and nostalgia surrounding agriculture and see it for what it is: a business. It is a type of business that has limited potential for long-run profits because of its competitive nature. The whole world can do it" (p. 25) [On demand for farmland from urban people seeking rural amenities] "It is ironic that many farmers and ranchers retiring in the future will be thankful for the flood of city folks into rural America...That irony is lost on many Defenders of the Farm. Several groups, such as the American Farmland Trust (AFT), still strive to preserve the nation's farmland" (p. 26). "...AFT has created a Purchase of Development Rights' program...In other words, when the value of land is too high to justify farming it, AFT will buy it at market prices so that land can sit idle instead of being developed into something useful. This is an example of shooting yourself in the foot...Clearly the end of Agriculture in America is near, but some people refuse to see the signs and are hurting themselves in an effort to resist the inevitable. A classic example of this comes from reports that retiring farmers are passing their livelihoods on to young enthusiasts through a growing number of programs that match retiring farmers with younger ones in order to keep alive a family farm and a way of life...The idea...was developed in 1990 by a think tank in Nebraska...Yet, all the analysts agree that these programs are not going to change the faces of agriculture...Americans...must learn to let go of farming and ranching...In the long run, this means becoming citizens of the world, dependent on others for food commodities while Americans produce the marvels and the know-how for the future...accept that farming, although it enabled America to move into its dynamic future, is part of a proud past. Job well done" (p. 27). Robert B. Shapiro (who, perhaps some will recognize as the CEO of a firm headquartered in Missouri and mentioned lately in posts to SANET) authored "How Genetic Engineering Will Save Our Planet" (pp. 28-29). This is drawn from a speech published by the Center for the Study of American Business, Washington University, St. Louis. What he writes may not surprise you; my reading of his argument is as follows: The prospects for massive population increases require us to rethink how to feed the world. On top of that, people are demanding higher quality diets that include more animal products and oils. Therefore, we need to double or triple food output in the next few decades. Given the prospects for greatly increased demand for food, what we have done in the past is not sustainable. We have come to the limits of increasing land under cultivation and wildlife habitats are threatened. Biotechnology and information technologies are the only viable alternatives to accomplish this AND make sustainability and development compatible. Plants bioengineered to repel or kill pests are important examples of this. Note for purposes of perspective on the above: If you are not familiar with The Futurist, it is a publication of the World Future Society. The society is not particularly exclusive (I believe the main requirement for membership is $35 for dues). I suspect (but don't know) that its membership is mainly relatively politically-conservative and technologically-optimistic types. I find The Futurist interesting and stimulating because publishes all sorts articles and news notes on interesting ideas, projections, and cutting-edge technologies (e.g., using explosives to tenderize meat--p. 8 of the April issue). Like with National Public Radio, one needs to be able to read between the lines to gauge the perspectives and commitments of the authors. I would judge that most articles (like the two I described above) are consistent with the perspective of its main membership group. The general thrust of most articles is projecting current trends into the future with a new wrinkle or maybe two and conjecturing about some of the implications. Other articles, those more consistent with my tastes, identify novel and unexpected possibilities. Finally, some of the technologically-optimistic authors propose some downright whacky schemes with an unself-conconscious seriousness that I find, at the same time, very entertaining and very scary. Gil Gillespie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 17 22:50:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20277 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:50:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA06484 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:05:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA06388 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:05:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA12094 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D5X9R4AK; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:05:11 EST To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:53:41 -0700 Subject: re: N scavenging plants Message-ID: <19990317.195410.3542.2.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,7-16,18-26,28,30-33,35-36,38-41,43-46,48-49,51, 53-54,56,58-61,63-64,66,68-79,81,83-86 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 SANETers: The following is an informative Email I received about N scavenging plants. This is only an academic interest for me since I live in a desert with low/moderate available nitrogen (my county agent thinks I need to add lots more nitrogen, but I grow vegetables just fine with a little added compost, mulch, and water). However, I thought it might be of more interest to some of you who live in areas plagued by nitrate groundwater pollution. regards, Edna --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Michael Russelle To: eweigel@juno.com Subject: N scavenging plants Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:51:58 -0600 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990317135158.0084dcd0@soils.umn.edu> A colleague of mine sent me a copy of the note you had submitted on SANET. You may wish to share this with others in the discussion group. The USDA-ARS Plant Science Research Unit in St. Paul, MN, has developed a couple of alfalfa types that form ineffective nodules with rhizobia and cannot fix N symbiotically. They were developed for research on N2 fixation, but a few years ago, we found that they are 30-40% better in absorbing nitrate from the soil than regular alfalfa. We are using these in field trials to clean up excess nitrate. In one trial in North Dakota, Ineffective Agate removed twice as much N as corn silage, even though above ground dry matter yields were the same. There is very little seed available for these two alfalfas. Even if seed were readily available, however, we would not recommend that farmers plant them, since they either have to be fertilized or seeded in soil with very high inorganic N supply. It turns out that even regular, N2-fixing alfalfas do a pretty good job at removing inorganic N from the soil. Incidentally, planting a crop that has 'an aggressive root system' is no guarantee that it will remove N efficiently. Nitrogen removal is a function of dry matter (yield) and N concentration. If the crop will not yield particularly well at the location, it will not be especially effective in removing N. Those crops with higher N (or protein) concentration will remove more N than crops with lower N concentration, given the same yield. Of course, the crop needs to be able to produce roots at the depths where the nitrate is found in the soil -- one advantage of alfalfa is that it can be very deeply rooted (roughly 4-6 feet per year) and can get to nitrate in the deep subsoil that other crops cannot reach. Perennial crops are generally better than annuals, in that they use water over a longer part of the growing season and have higher yield potential. The water use question is important, because nitrate moves through the soil with excess water. One concern in using crops to remove excess nitrate is that herbage can develop high concentrations of nitrate-N, too. If the forage is to be used for livestock feeding, it should be ensiled to reduce nitrate concentrations, or the hay or green material should be tested for nitrate. Concentrations above 2000 to 3000 mg nitrate-N/kg dry matter may be toxic. Such feed can be used if mixed with other materials to effect dilution of the nitrate. Hope this is of some help. Michael Russelle - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Michael P. Russelle voice: 612-625-8145 USDA-Agricultural Research Service FAX: 651-649-5058 439 Borlaug Hall e-mail: russelle@soils.umn.edu University of Minnesota http://www.umn.edu/arspsru/plantsci.html St. Paul, MN 55108-6028 http://www.dfrc.wisc.edu/profiles/mpr.html USA --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 01:20:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22638 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 01:20:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA25386 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:20:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA25323 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:20:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (dial54.ppp.iastate.edu [129.186.97.54]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA07358 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:20:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990317231522.00bc4a10@pop-1.iastate.edu> X-Sender: ehurley@pop-1.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:20:26 -0600 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Eric G Hurley Subject: Re: NPR Piece on Monsanto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 For those of you who missed it, the NPR Monsanto piece can be heard on NPR's website at: http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/archives/1999/990316.atc.html You need to download RealAudio and have a soundcard to make it work. Eric G. Hurley ************************************************************* "Since the achievement of our independence, he is the greatest patriot who stops the most gullies." --Patrick Henry Eric G. Hurley 829 Douglas Ave #3 Ames IA 50010-6221 515/232-2568 ehurley@iastate.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 09:43:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28606 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA00395 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:05:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00328 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp237.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.237]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA23275 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:08:30 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:03:40 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-16; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 [Reposted with permission] The Observer (UK) Sunday March 14, 1999 Outrage over Monsanto's underhand tactics in EU By Gregory Palast An international consumer group is calling for world trade authorities to withdraw a key endorsement of Monsanto's controversial growth hormone for cows in the wake of Observer revelations that the company had obtained access to confidential EU documents. In a letter to the Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives (Jecfa), London-based Consumers' International demanded the agency void its approval of the bovine growth hormone BST. The consumer watchdog, which participates on the scientific committee, charges that Monsanto's privileged access to restricted documents 'damaged the objectivity and credibility' of the investigation of the hormone. Jecfa reports to the Codex Commission, the world's food safety arbitrator. In June this commission will vote on approving Monsanto's drug for international trade. Last week CI's director, Julian Edward, accused a US Food and Drug Administration official on the panel, Dr Nick Weber, of professional misconduct and 'breach of trust' in passing copies of sensitive papers to Monsanto. The Observer identified Dr Weber as the source of the leak to Monsanto. Weber has not responded to phone calls to his office, but the Jecfa panel's chairman, Dr John Hermann, stated that, following the Observer story, Weber had admitted passing the confidential documents to Monsanto prior to a crucial meeting last February in Paris. Herrman defended Weber, as he did another US Food and Drug Administration official in the controversy, Dr Margaret Miller. The Observer reported that Miller, a former Monsanto BST analyst, took part in the Jecfa review of the hormone.Herrman concedes that Miller participated in the talks and drafted the committee's report, but she excused herself from the actual vote approving the hormone as safe. Before heading Jecfa, Herrman, too, worked for the FDA. A spokesman for the Consumer Policy Institute of New York decried 'the disturbingly close relationship between FDA and Monsanto'. The Institute's BST expert, Dr Michael Hansen, a Jecfa adviser, said there were indications from test data that milk from cows injected with the hormone may promote cancers in humans. In Canada, the Senate Agriculture Committee last week demanded that Ottawa withdraw its seal of approval for BST following the Observer' disclosure that a scientist representing Canada on the Jecfa panel had been suggested by Monsanto. Senator Mira Spivak of Manitoba said senators were stunned to find in their own investigation that 'a registered Monsanto lobbyist was part of Canada's delegation to Codex'. The committee's report recommended conducting new studies of BST. The senator said her committee'learned that BST files were stolen at Health Canada' and that government scientists who expressed doubts about Monsanto's safety tests had been 'muzzled after they began to talk publicly about the drug review'. The Observer also reported that Monsanto had sued several hundred US farmers for 'seed piracy' - planting seeds taken from crops originally grown from Monsanto's copyrighted genetically modified seeds. Now a rival seed company has accused Monsanto of the same offence. Iowa-based Pioneer Hi-Bred International has just filed a suit in the US Federal Court accusing Monsanto of 'genetic misappropriation'. A Hi-Bred spokesman told The Observer that Monsanto 'buys our seeds' and hunt for rare copies of proprietary genetic codes. Monsanto denies that it has done anything illegal. Analysts say the suit by Hi-Bred, the leading US supplier of farm genetics, has major implications for Monsanto. In India, meanwhile, Monsanto lost a key legal battle in its ongoing conflict with the subcontinent's cotton farmers when India's Supreme Court barred Monsanto from new test plantings until it completes a judicial review of human rights claims against Monsanto. Farmers fear that the GM cotton, which incorporates an insecticide within its genetic code, could lead to the evolution of insects resistant to natural insecticides. ........ posted by: jim@niall7.demon.co.uk (jim mcnulty) Daily Express 12 March 99 Why soya is a hidden destroyer Exclusive by Mark Townsend Fresh fears over the safety of genetically modified foods surfaced faced yesterday after new research revealed that food allergies relating to soya Increased by 50 per cent last year A study by Europe's leading specialists on food sensitivity found health complaints caused by soya - the ingredient most associated with GM foods - have increased from 10 in 100 patients to 15 in 100 over the past year. Researchers at the York Nutritional Laboratory said their findings provide real evidence that GM food could have a tangible, harmful impact on the human body The findings were sent to Health Secretary Frank Dobson last night as scientists urged the Government to act on the information and impose an instant ban on GM food, while further safety tests are carried out. Dr Michael Antoniou, senior lecturer in molecular pathology at Guy's Hospital, Central London,, said: "This is a very interesting if slightly worrying, development. "It points to the fact that far more work is needed to assess their safety. At the moment no allergy tests are carried out before GM foods are marketed and that also needs to be looked at." John Graham, spokesman for the York laboratory, said: "We believe this raises serious new questions about the safety of GM foods because it is impossible to guarantee that the soya used in the tests was GM-free." It is the first time in 17 years of testing that soya has crept into the laboratory's top 10 foods to cause an allergic reaction in consumers. The vegetable has moved up four places to ninth end now sits alongside foodstuffs with a long history of causing allergies, such as yeast, sunflower seeds and nuts ......... CBC Internet news Mar 16, 1999 Fear grows over 'Frankenstein foods' LONDON - There's a new type of food that people around the world are having a hard time swallowing -- genetically modified products. Such food is becoming more and more common around the world. In Britain, so is the public outcry. There, memories of mad cow disease are still fresh on people's minds, and the issue is being described as another food crisis. To bio-technology companies, their ability to genetically alter fruits and vegetables is the dawn of a brave new world. It provides agriculture with the means to grow cheaper, healthier foods. Tomato plants, for instance, have been modified to produce fruit that doesn't ripen too quickly. By inserting genes from one plant into another, scientists can also improve a crop's resistance to insects or weeds. "We believe that bio-technology and genetically modified foods is an important component and an important future," says Nigel Poole of Zeneca Food Sciences. "This is only just the first 10 metres in a marathon race." Zeneca sell more than a half-million tins of their genetically modified tomato paste every year -- and they're not alone. Nearly 60 per cent of Britain's processed foods contain some genetically modified ingredients. But environmental and consumer groups are trying to turn back the tide of so-called GM foods. Their message is blunt -- altering the genetic code of grains and vegetables is creating "Frankenstein foods" that threaten human health and the environment. The groups are demanding more research and a moratorium on growing modified crops. "We've asked (British Prime Minister) Tony Blair to conduct a root-and-branch reform of the regulatory system immediately," says Julie Sheperd of Britain's consumers association, "and until that's done, not to allow new GM food products onto the market." Environmental activists recently ripped up a field of genetically modified canola in the British countryside, saying that even growing such plants for research could lead to contamination of other farmers fields. The refrain of worry is being picked up by retailers across the United Kingdom. A growing number of fast food outlets and major supermarkets say they don't want genetically modified ingredients in their products. Burger King and Domino's Pizza are the latest to join the movement. And Iceland Frozen Foods is producing its own line of products using unmodified Canadian soya flour. Iceland Foods' Bill Wadsworth says genetic modification provides a scientific shortcut to food production, but the alteration may be toxic -- now or in the future. "What we're concerned about is the fact that ... nobody can tell us what the risk is," Wadsworth tells CBC News. But some scientists say public fear over genetically modified foods is getting way out of hand. "People seem to be ignoring the real scientific basis of what is being done in respect of genetic modification. And I think there's very little understanding of the true issues," plant physiologist Mike Black tells CBC News. Ultimately, the battle over genetically modified ingredients will be won or lost in supermarkets, with consumer's choices on the store shelves. The British government is about to bring in new regulations for labelling, requiring anyone who sells food, whether in a restaurant or in a supermarket, to warn customers if it contains genetically modified ingredients. That way, it would be consumers who cast the final vote on the future of GM food. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 09:47:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28691 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:47:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA12035 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:25:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11960 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA28820; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:24:13 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-16.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.48) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028787; Thu Mar 18 07:23:51 1999 Message-ID: <020401be7142$69b67ce0$55a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Gilbert W. Gillespie Jr." Subject: Re: Articles in The Futurist Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:22:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Gil sent: > >Steven C. Blank, an extension economist from UC-Davis and author of "The >End of the American Farm?" (pp. 22-27), draws from his 1998 bookThe End of >Agriculture in the American Portfolioto argue that agriculture is becoming >uncompetitive in the US and that we ought to give up the outdated notion of >producing food in the U.S. and import it from places that can produce it >more cheaply. If I were to criticize Blank, I would do so for not >mentioning the promise of biotech for eliminating agriculture all together >(a prospect that should prevent rational land grant administrators from >hiring any new production scientist faculty members younger than 50). Some >excerpts that I hope fairly capture the main content: > >"Most Americans could not care less if farming and ranching disappear, as >long as they get their burgers and fries. Americans will waddle on. The > Yikes this is a scary one, but I really don't see this as true. While many Americans are happy when things they want to buy just appear on the shelves, they can be awakened (albeit usually temporarily) when something endangers or appears to endanger their American comfort ie: attention to mad cow, e-coli, etc. I think if Americans were asked they would say they would prefere that most of our food was grown here, they're aware that having your "pantry" behind another countries borders could prove dangerous, war, export difficulties etc. I don't even think rural american is "disappearing" being chipped away at but not disappearing (fingers crossed). And while many Americans put their interest in things natural or agricultural on the back burner something I read in "Farms of the Future Revisited" struck me as meaningful I paraphrase and include my own opinions, people crave a connection with farms hence the sucess of petting zoos, farm stands, and probably pony rides. If you can get John and Jane Q Public on a farm they usually "see" how beautiful it is. Getting them there another story. Another quote I read and I appologize I do not remember the author if I find it I will post it: "You can not love what you don't know" Wow that about says it. Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 10:26:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29667 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA03688 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:03:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03644 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:03:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04741 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:03:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA02980; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:02:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-16.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.48) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002893; Thu Mar 18 08:01:34 1999 Message-ID: <024001be7147$aea024a0$55a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" , , Cc: Subject: Re: (Fwd) Greenspan Says World Troubles Hurt U.S. Farmers Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:00:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 >Weakness in farm prices reflects the sick economies of key trading >partners such as Japan and Russia, which have cut back their imports >of U.S. agricultural products. Farmers won't see better times until >troubled economies overseas recover, he warned. > >To survive under these conditions, farmers must keep on making >themselves more efficient and more productive by using the latest >technology, Greenspan said. > >c1999 San Francisco Chronicle Page B1 You survive a lessened market by making yourself more efficient and productive (with the lastest bell and whistles of course) so that you have lots of stuff to not sell? He's an ecomomist? Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 13:37:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04752 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:37:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19248 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:12:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from garnet.sover.net (garnet.sover.net [209.198.87.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19157; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:12:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (arc0a346.bf.sover.net [209.198.83.254]) by garnet.sover.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22530; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:12:27 -0500 (EST) Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) oemcomputer from arc0a346.bf.sover.net [209.198.83.254] 209.198.83.254 Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:12:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001f01be7162$cf66b120$fe53c6d1@oemcomputer> Reply-To: "farm connection" From: "farm connection" To: , Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #905 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:57:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 why are so many of you surprised at the pro monsanto leanings at npr - this is the same "public" radio that gets major support from archer daniels midland, mobil corp et al. do you really suppose that the grumbling of lowly listeners who contribute maybe $50 will matter to them? -----Original Message----- From: sanet-mg-digest To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 6:56 PM Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #905 > >sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, March 17 1999 Volume 01 : Number 905 > > > >In this issue: > > Monsonto's price > NPR Piece on Monsanto,Etc > Re: NPR Report on Monsanto > Re: Re: npr story on monsanto GE > (Fwd) Greenspan Says World Troubles Hurt U.S. Farmers > >See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:44:19 EST5EDT >From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" >Subject: Monsonto's price > >> "The speed at which GM organisms have been developed and introduced by >> multinational companies and the scientific community has left many people >> completely unaware of and uninvolved in the process," the panel said. > >I was talking to a friend of mine today who happens to be stock >broker and I asked him what's going on with Monsonto stock (wondering >to myself how all this bruhaha we've been reading about lately re. >the backlash against GMOs is effecting the bottom line over there) >and he told me that it had been in a holding pattern for some time, >but recently it's gone up (!!). He says that there are rumors of a >takeover. Anyway, it would seem that whatever resistence to GE is >brewing out there, it isn't giving off any economic signals yet to >dampen the GE enthusiasm... Anita > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:15:19 -0800 >From: Charles Benbrook >Subject: NPR Piece on Monsanto,Etc > > Much could and needs to be said about the NPR piece on Monsanto >(part I), the Dupont-Pioneer deal, Monsanto's stock price, and the prospects >for farmers to make a living growing soybeans in the U.S. But for now just >a few points. > > The NPR piece shows what good PR can do and get for a company that >knows how to "work with" the media. Not a bright day for NPR. What amazes >me is that senior Monsanto officials can get away, unchallenged, with saying >things like "RR beans lowered their (farmers') costs and raised their >yields." The evidence is now overwhelming and indisputable that average >yields of RR varieties are about 4-6% less than conventional varieties. The >definitive and most recent comparative analysis was carried out by Dr. E.S. >Oplinger of the Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison, who has managed a North Central >regional project assessing soybean varietal performance for years. Dr. >Oplinger compared yields of 5,172 conv. varieties paired with 3,067 RR >varieties in 8 states in 1998. The RR varieties yielded between 86% and >113% of the conv., and average yields were 96% of conventional. There were >just two areas where RR did better -- Illinois and southern Michigan. >Outside these areas the average yield drag was greater, on the order of 6% >to 8% (data from "Performance of Transgenetic Soybeans -- Northern US," Dr. >E.S. Oplinger, M.J. Martinka, and K.A. Schmitz, Dept. of Agronomy, UW-Madison). > > This places the minimal average yield drag at about 2 bushels per >acre, or $10.00 (and it was much more on many farmers). That $10.00 plus >the technology charge, plus the 2-3 applications of Roundup (not the one >alleged in the piece), plus the 2 or 3 other herbicide a.i.s that must be >applied make for the most expensive soybean seed+weed management system in >modern history -- between $40.00 and $60.00 per acre depending on rates, >weed pressure, etc. Not long ago, in 1985, the average seed plus weed costs >on farms in Illinois was $26.72 per acre (USDA cost of production data), and >represented 23% of total variable costs; now, they represent 35-40%. (For >details and data sources, see the paper I did for the Univ. of Illinois >symposium at ). No wonder Monsanto is throwing in >free resprays and replanting, and other crop insurance-like benefits as an >added bonus. > > Every independent set of data, recent analysis of RR beans I have >seen reaches the same conclusion; the technology increases costs somewhat, >but imposes a "price" farmers are willing to pay for the >simplicity/robustness of the weed management system. Oplinger et al. end >their paper saying: "It is anticipated that soybean growers will continue to >increase acres planted to RR varieties and will sacrifice yield for ease of >weed control." They will also sacrifice some net income per acre. This is >a perfectly rational reason for farmers to adopt the technology; weed >management is probably the number one management challenge all soybean >farmers face. Monsanto should not be ashamed to cite these reasons in >explaining why the technology is being adopted. But Monsanto needs to drop >the "feeding the world", "lowering costs", "lowering pesticide use" claims >because they do not hold water and will undermine, further, the reputation >of the corporation, and in so doing feed the already considerable cynicism >abroad about the trustworthiness of this company. > > While Monsanto does not seem to worry much about losing consumer >trust in Europe and Japan, U.S. farmers (and the U.S. government) should be >concerned and will, in the end, pay the price if the effort to drive RR >beans down the throats of Europeans backfires into a search for non-GMO >soybeans from other countries. > > Plus, things are not getting any better down on the farm. Soybean >prices are way down, export markets are soft. As weed shifts continue in >areas planted heavily to RR beans, and as resistance spreads to additional >weed species (the first signs of tolerant weeds are appearing in several >states), farmers will have to increase rates of Roundup applications and >intensify use of other active ingredients, to fill gaps in control. Costs >will rise, the income squeeze will get even worse. > > Contrary to a Monsanto scientist's claim on the NPR piece, Roundup >does not kill everything green except for transgenic crop varieties. If >that were the case, most farmers using RR systems would not be applying at >least 2, and on many farms, three additional active ingredients. > > Someone posted that Monsanto's stock price is holding. Keep >watching that space. The Dupont-Pioneer deal seals off the most likely >route to salvation for Monsanto -- Dupont's deep pockets. Monsanto is >desperate for a new partner to help cover its $700 million plus cost of >capital, etc from the seed mergers of the past few years. Not too many >companies around that can float that sort of cost. There remain a couple of >major deals to go in the pesticide and seed industries, and then it will be, >for all intents and purposes, over. Expect Monsanto, Zeneca, American Home >Products, Novartis, and Bayer to be involved in a few additional mega-deals >in the next 12-24 months. > > We will have one industry where we used to have two, and 4-6 major >players where there used to be a couple of dozen, and many dozen regionally >significant players. No one has much of an idea, nor any credible way to >project the consequences of these changes. Its unchartered water in >turbulent times. We are all invited along for the ride, which will be >exciting and at times divisive, as the economic interests of one part of the >agricultural system (probably farmers) suffer at the expense of other >players. There will be many surprises, positive and negative. What seems >clear to me, in any event, is that public institutions and policies, like >those governing research, technology returns, intellectual property, >markets, information, are not keeping up and that new forces shaping the >performance of the new seed+pesticide industry will largely emerge within >the private sector, from the demand side, both farmers for inputs and >consumers for food. > > chuck benbrook > > > > > > >Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) >Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) >5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] >Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:52:22 -0600 >From: "Mark Ritchie" >Subject: Re: NPR Report on Monsanto > >I was on an previous NPR show about biosafety/biotech in which my >impression from the NPR producer was that they she and NPR were pro-biotech >and pro-monsanto. On the show that was aired I had one sentence and then >there were 4 strong proponents of biotech. >How about some calls to NPR to complain?? > >At 04:04 PM 3/16/99 -0700, Ed and Sue Sparling wrote: >>>>> >Dear Sustainable Ag Network Subscribers: > >How did you all react to the "All Things Considered piece on Monsanto?" > >My reaction was that the Monsanto PR dept had a big hand in it. >Interesting that Clinton is going to give Fraley (former PR man for >Monsanto) a medal. Ouch! > >I have to wonder if tommorow's part 2 will incorporate a serious >consideration of concerns about the effects of bt GM plants on the organic >farming sector. It seems pretty irresponsible reporting if Dan Charles >(NPR reporter) hasn't talked to Charles Benbrook (for example). > >Ed Sparling >Professor Emeritus >Dept Agric Economics >Colorado State University > ><<<< > > >Mark Ritchie, President >Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy >2105 First Ave. South >Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA >612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) >mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org/iatp > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:06:50 EST >From: PetersFarm@aol.com >Subject: Re: Re: npr story on monsanto GE > >Well, you know, we SANeters are bound to be disappointed (as I was) by any >program about biotech, just because we've already been so well informed, >thanks to SANet. Frankly, I'm glad to see/hear ANYthing on the subject from >ANY of the media (as long as it's not a Monsanto commercial). If that >program gets 10 people thinking about an issue they were not even aware of, I >call that a Good Thing. > >(Betty) Ann Gras > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:43:58 -0500 >From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" >Subject: (Fwd) Greenspan Says World Troubles Hurt U.S. Farmers > >Howdy, all-- > >So, since when has Alan Greenspan set himself up as spokesdude for >the J. Random Powerful Pinstriped Guy Ministry of Agricultural >Production System Expertise? > >This appeared in today's /SF Chronicle/. Notice that his touted >"characteristic ambiguity" doesn't include his advice to farmers. > >Efficiency...productivity...latest technology. Keep saying it. Sooner >or later my eyes are bound to glaze over. > >pax >misha > >- ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > >Greenspan Says World Troubles Hurt U.S. Farmers >Fed chairman sees technology as means to increase >efficiency > >Sam Zuckerman, Chronicle Staff Writer >Wednesday, March 17, 1999 > > >Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan came to San Francisco >yesterday to speak just hours after the Dow Jones industrial average >briefly crashed through the 10,000 barrier for the first time ever. > >But the Fed chairman didn't utter a word about the market because >high finance wasn't on his mind. > >Greenspan, who has frequently voiced his worries about speculation in >stocks and coined the phrase ``irrational exuberance'' several >thousand Dow points back, chose the occasion to speak about the U.S. >farm economy. > >While the overall U.S. economy experiences a remarkable mix of robust >growth, low unemployment and low inflation, ``agriculture has been one >of the more notable soft spots,'' Greenspan noted, hurt by worldwide >weakness in commodity prices. > >Greenspan's choice of San Francisco as a venue to speak about farming >wasn't as odd as it seemed at first glance. His audience at the >Moscone Center consisted of more than 2,000 community bankers in town >for a convention of the Independent Bankers Association of America, >many from small-town banks that specialize in loans to farmers. > >The Fed chief's outlook for the broader economy was, as usual, >ambiguous and delivered in his characteristic on-the-one-hand, >on-the- other-hand style. > >The healthy U.S. economy ``is partly the result of influences that >may prove transitory, but a number of fundamental strengths imply >more lasting benefits,'' he said. > >Greenspan noted that, after eight years of economic growth, ``the >economy appears stretched in a number of dimensions, implying >considerable upside and downside risks to the economic outlook.'' > >Weakness in farm prices reflects the sick economies of key trading >partners such as Japan and Russia, which have cut back their imports >of U.S. agricultural products. Farmers won't see better times until >troubled economies overseas recover, he warned. > >To survive under these conditions, farmers must keep on making >themselves more efficient and more productive by using the latest >technology, Greenspan said. > >c1999 San Francisco Chronicle Page B1 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #905 >****************************** > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 15:41:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA10289 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:41:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA10399 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:33:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA10383 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:33:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA39448; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:32:57 -0700 Received: from edandsue (dialup0128.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.52.227]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA180138; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:32:51 -0700 Message-ID: <007d01be7175$53268be0$e3345281@edandsue.colostate.edu> From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Cc: Subject: ATC Piece on Monsanto and Genetic Engineered Crops Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:27:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01BE713A.A4749C20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01BE713A.A4749C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To Whom it May Concern: =20 Please find below a post from Dr Charles Benbrook, author of the book, = "Pest Management at the Crossroads," 1996, Consumers Union, Yonkers, = NY.,=20 and formerly Executive Director of the Board on Agriculture for the = National Academy of Sciences. =20 Dr. Benbrook is addressing one inaccuracy (misrepresentation by = Monsanto) of Part I of the ATC piece of this week. Benbrook's points = are well substantiated. In particular, he gives several references which = can be checked with a web crawler. In addition to checking these leads, ATC needs to follow up by delving = more deeply into the reasons responsible scientists and organic farmers = are so concerned about Monsanto's approach to marketing genetically = engineered crop seed. Dr Benbrook would be an excellent resource for = your reporters. Please find his post below my signature line. Yours Truly, =20 Ed Sparling Subscriber, KUNC Professor Emeritus, Agricultural Economics Colorado State University =20 =20 =20 NPR Piece on Monsanto,Etc =20 Charles Benbrook (benbrook@hillnet.com) Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:15:19 -0800=20 =20 Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]=20 Previous message: Anita Graf: "Monsonto's price"=20 =20 Much could and needs to be said about the NPR piece on Monsanto (part I), the Dupont-Pioneer deal, Monsanto's stock price, and the = prospects for farmers to make a living growing soybeans in the U.S. But for now = just a few points. =20 The NPR piece shows what good PR can do and get for a company that knows how to "work with" the media. Not a bright day for NPR. What = amazes me is that senior Monsanto officials can get away, unchallenged, with = saying things like "RR beans lowered their (farmers') costs and raised their yields." The evidence is now overwhelming and indisputable that average yields of RR varieties are about 4-6% less than conventional varieties. = The definitive and most recent comparative analysis was carried out by Dr. = E.S. Oplinger of the Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison, who has managed a North = Central regional project assessing soybean varietal performance for years. Dr. Oplinger compared yields of 5,172 conv. varieties paired with 3,067 RR varieties in 8 states in 1998. The RR varieties yielded between 86% and 113% of the conv., and average yields were 96% of conventional. There = were just two areas where RR did better -- Illinois and southern Michigan. Outside these areas the average yield drag was greater, on the order of = 6% to 8% (data from "Performance of Transgenetic Soybeans -- Northern US," = Dr. E.S. Oplinger, M.J. Martinka, and K.A. Schmitz, Dept. of Agronomy, = UW-Madison). =20 This places the minimal average yield drag at about 2 bushels per acre, or $10.00 (and it was much more on many farmers). That $10.00 plus the technology charge, plus the 2-3 applications of Roundup (not the one alleged in the piece), plus the 2 or 3 other herbicide a.i.s that must = be applied make for the most expensive soybean seed+weed management system = in modern history -- between $40.00 and $60.00 per acre depending on rates, weed pressure, etc. Not long ago, in 1985, the average seed plus weed = costs on farms in Illinois was $26.72 per acre (USDA cost of production data), = and represented 23% of total variable costs; now, they represent 35-40%. = (For details and data sources, see the paper I did for the Univ. of Illinois symposium at ). No wonder Monsanto is throwing in free resprays and replanting, and other crop insurance-like benefits as = an added bonus.=20 =20 Every independent set of data, recent analysis of RR beans I have seen reaches the same conclusion; the technology increases costs = somewhat, but imposes a "price" farmers are willing to pay for the simplicity/robustness of the weed management system. Oplinger et al. end their paper saying: "It is anticipated that soybean growers will = continue to increase acres planted to RR varieties and will sacrifice yield for ease = of weed control." They will also sacrifice some net income per acre. This = is a perfectly rational reason for farmers to adopt the technology; weed management is probably the number one management challenge all soybean farmers face. Monsanto should not be ashamed to cite these reasons in explaining why the technology is being adopted. But Monsanto needs to = drop the "feeding the world", "lowering costs", "lowering pesticide use" = claims because they do not hold water and will undermine, further, the = reputation of the corporation, and in so doing feed the already considerable = cynicism abroad about the trustworthiness of this company.=20 =20 While Monsanto does not seem to worry much about losing consumer trust in Europe and Japan, U.S. farmers (and the U.S. government) should = be concerned and will, in the end, pay the price if the effort to drive RR beans down the throats of Europeans backfires into a search for non-GMO soybeans from other countries. =20 Plus, things are not getting any better down on the farm. Soybean prices are way down, export markets are soft. As weed shifts continue in areas planted heavily to RR beans, and as resistance spreads to = additional weed species (the first signs of tolerant weeds are appearing in several states), farmers will have to increase rates of Roundup applications and intensify use of other active ingredients, to fill gaps in control. = Costs will rise, the income squeeze will get even worse.=20 =20 Contrary to a Monsanto scientist's claim on the NPR piece, Roundup does not kill everything green except for transgenic crop varieties. If that were the case, most farmers using RR systems would not be applying = at least 2, and on many farms, three additional active ingredients. =20 Someone posted that Monsanto's stock price is holding. Keep watching that space. The Dupont-Pioneer deal seals off the most likely route to salvation for Monsanto -- Dupont's deep pockets. Monsanto is desperate for a new partner to help cover its $700 million plus cost of capital, etc from the seed mergers of the past few years. Not too many companies around that can float that sort of cost. There remain a couple = of major deals to go in the pesticide and seed industries, and then it will = be, for all intents and purposes, over. Expect Monsanto, Zeneca, American = Home Products, Novartis, and Bayer to be involved in a few additional = mega-deals in the next 12-24 months. =20 We will have one industry where we used to have two, and 4-6 major players where there used to be a couple of dozen, and many dozen = regionally significant players. No one has much of an idea, nor any credible way to project the consequences of these changes. Its unchartered water in turbulent times. We are all invited along for the ride, which will be exciting and at times divisive, as the economic interests of one part of = the agricultural system (probably farmers) suffer at the expense of other players. There will be many surprises, positive and negative. What seems clear to me, in any event, is that public institutions and policies, = like those governing research, technology returns, intellectual property, markets, information, are not keeping up and that new forces shaping the performance of the new seed+pesticide industry will largely emerge = within the private sector, from the demand side, both farmers for inputs and consumers for food. =20 chuck benbrook =20 Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net =20 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". =20 All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail =20 Previous message: Anita Graf: "Monsonto's price"=20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01BE713A.A4749C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To Whom it May Concern:
 
Please find below a post from Dr Charles Benbrook, = author of=20 the book, "Pest Management at the Crossroads,"  1996, = Consumers=20 Union, Yonkers, NY.,
and formerly Executive Director of the Board on = Agriculture=20 for the National Academy of Sciences.
 
Dr. Benbrook is addressing one = inaccuracy=20 (misrepresentation by Monsanto) of Part I of the ATC piece of this = week. =20 Benbrook's points are well = substantiated. In=20 particular, he gives several references which can be checked with a web=20 crawler.
 
In addition to checking these = leads,  ATC=20 needs to follow up by delving more deeply into the reasons responsible=20 scientists and organic farmers are so concerned about Monsanto's = approach to=20 marketing genetically engineered crop seed.  Dr Benbrook would be = an=20 excellent resource for your reporters. Please find his post below my = signature=20 line.

Yours Truly,
 
Ed Sparling
Subscriber,=20 KUNC
Professor Emeritus, Agricultural = Economics
Colorado State = University
 
 
 
NPR Piece on = Monsanto,Etc
 
Charles Benbrook (benbrook@hillnet.com)
Wed, = 17 Mar 1999=20 09:15:19 -0800
 
    Messages sorted = by: [ date ][=20 thread ][ subject ][ author ]
    Previous message: = Anita=20 Graf: "Monsonto's price"
 
Much could and needs to be said = about the NPR=20 piece on Monsanto
(part I), the Dupont-Pioneer deal, Monsanto's stock = price,=20 and the prospects
for farmers to make a living growing soybeans in = the U.S.=20 But for now just
a few points.
 
The NPR piece shows what good PR can = do and get=20 for a company that
knows how to "work with" the media. Not = a bright=20 day for NPR. What amazes
me is that senior Monsanto officials can get = away,=20 unchallenged, with saying
things like "RR beans lowered their = (farmers')=20 costs and raised their
yields." The evidence is now overwhelming = and=20 indisputable that average
yields of RR varieties are about 4-6% less = than=20 conventional varieties. The
definitive and most recent comparative = analysis=20 was carried out by Dr. E.S.
Oplinger of the Univ. of Wisconsin, = Madison, who=20 has managed a North Central
regional project assessing soybean = varietal=20 performance for years. Dr.
Oplinger compared yields of 5,172 conv. = varieties=20 paired with 3,067 RR
varieties in 8 states in 1998. The RR varieties = yielded=20 between 86% and
113% of the conv., and average yields were 96% of=20 conventional. There were
just two areas where RR did better -- = Illinois and=20 southern Michigan.
Outside these areas the average yield drag was = greater, on=20 the order of 6%
to 8% (data from "Performance of Transgenetic = Soybeans=20 -- Northern US," Dr.
E.S. Oplinger, M.J. Martinka, and K.A. = Schmitz,=20 Dept. of Agronomy, UW-Madison).
 
This places the minimal average = yield drag at=20 about 2 bushels per
acre, or $10.00 (and it was much more on many = farmers).=20 That $10.00 plus
the technology charge, plus the 2-3 applications of = Roundup=20 (not the one
alleged in the piece), plus the 2 or 3 other herbicide = a.i.s=20 that must be
applied make for the most expensive soybean seed+weed = management=20 system in
modern history -- between $40.00 and $60.00 per acre = depending on=20 rates,
weed pressure, etc. Not long ago, in 1985, the average seed = plus weed=20 costs
on farms in Illinois was $26.72 per acre (USDA cost of = production=20 data), and
represented 23% of total variable costs; now, they = represent=20 35-40%. (For
details and data sources, see the paper I did for the = Univ. of=20 Illinois
symposium at <www.pmac.net/IWFS.pdf>). No = wonder=20 Monsanto is throwing in
free resprays and replanting, and other crop=20 insurance-like benefits as an
added bonus.
 
Every independent set of data, = recent analysis=20 of RR beans I have
seen reaches the same conclusion; the technology = increases=20 costs somewhat,
but imposes a "price" farmers are willing = to pay=20 for the
simplicity/robustness of the weed management system. Oplinger = et al.=20 end
their paper saying: "It is anticipated that soybean growers = will=20 continue to
increase acres planted to RR varieties and will sacrifice = yield=20 for ease of
weed control." They will also sacrifice some net = income per=20 acre. This is
a perfectly rational reason for farmers to adopt the=20 technology; weed
management is probably the number one management = challenge=20 all soybean
farmers face. Monsanto should not be ashamed to cite = these=20 reasons in
explaining why the technology is being adopted. But = Monsanto needs=20 to drop
the "feeding the world", "lowering = costs",=20 "lowering pesticide use" claims
because they do not hold = water and=20 will undermine, further, the reputation
of the corporation, and in so = doing=20 feed the already considerable cynicism
abroad about the = trustworthiness of=20 this company.
 
While Monsanto does not seem to = worry much about=20 losing consumer
trust in Europe and Japan, U.S. farmers (and the U.S. = government) should be
concerned and will, in the end, pay the price = if the=20 effort to drive RR
beans down the throats of Europeans backfires into = a=20 search for non-GMO
soybeans from other countries.
 
Plus, things are not getting any = better down on=20 the farm. Soybean
prices are way down, export markets are soft. As = weed=20 shifts continue in
areas planted heavily to RR beans, and as = resistance=20 spreads to additional
weed species (the first signs of tolerant weeds = are=20 appearing in several
states), farmers will have to increase rates of = Roundup=20 applications and
intensify use of other active ingredients, to fill = gaps in=20 control. Costs
will rise, the income squeeze will get even worse.=20
 
Contrary to a Monsanto scientist's = claim on the=20 NPR piece, Roundup
does not kill everything green except for = transgenic crop=20 varieties. If
that were the case, most farmers using RR systems would = not be=20 applying at
least 2, and on many farms, three additional active=20 ingredients.
 
Someone posted that Monsanto's stock = price is=20 holding. Keep
watching that space. The Dupont-Pioneer deal seals off = the most=20 likely
route to salvation for Monsanto -- Dupont's deep pockets. = Monsanto=20 is
desperate for a new partner to help cover its $700 million plus = cost=20 of
capital, etc from the seed mergers of the past few years. Not too=20 many
companies around that can float that sort of cost. There remain = a couple=20 of
major deals to go in the pesticide and seed industries, and then = it will=20 be,
for all intents and purposes, over. Expect Monsanto, Zeneca, = American=20 Home
Products, Novartis, and Bayer to be involved in a few additional = mega-deals
in the next 12-24 months.
 
We will have one industry where we = used to have=20 two, and 4-6 major
players where there used to be a couple of dozen, = and many=20 dozen regionally
significant players. No one has much of an idea, nor = any=20 credible way to
project the consequences of these changes. Its = unchartered=20 water in
turbulent times. We are all invited along for the ride, = which will=20 be
exciting and at times divisive, as the economic interests of one = part of=20 the
agricultural system (probably farmers) suffer at the expense of=20 other
players. There will be many surprises, positive and negative. = What=20 seems
clear to me, in any event, is that public institutions and = policies,=20 like
those governing research, technology returns, intellectual=20 property,
markets, information, are not keeping up and that new = forces=20 shaping the
performance of the new seed+pesticide industry will = largely=20 emerge within
the private sector, from the demand side, both farmers = for=20 inputs and
consumers for food.
 
chuck benbrook
 

Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236=20 (voice)
Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax)
5085 Upper = Pack=20 River Road benbrook@hillnet.com=20 [e-mail]
Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net
 
To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with = the=20 command
"unsubscribe sanet-mg".
To Subscribe to Digest: = Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with = the=20 command
"subscribe sanet-mg-digest".
 
All messages to sanet-mg are = archived at:
http://www.sare.org/san= /htdocs/hypermail
 
    Previous message: = Anita Graf:=20 "Monsonto's price"
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_007A_01BE713A.A4749C20-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 16:55:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11863 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:55:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01670 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:58:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01597 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:58:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from renskebert.iatp.org ([208.141.36.78]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.56) with SMTP id 522; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:03:25 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990318151447.007c6870@iatp.org> X-Sender: rvanstaveren@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:14:47 -0600 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Renske van Staveren" Subject: Antitrust chief to meet with producers about mergers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 Mpls/St. Paul Star Tribune, 17 March 1999 WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The Justice Department's chief enforcer of antitrust laws will be in Minnesota next month to meet with producers about their concerns with agribusiness mergers. Joel Klein will be accompanied by Michael Dunn, the Agriculture Department's undersecretary for marketing and regulatory programs. Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., also may attend. The meeting will be April 18, but no location has been set. "This is going to give [Klein] an opportunity to hear first-hand the concerns of . . . producers all over the Upper Midwest," said Andy McDonald, a spokesman for Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn. Klein's office is reviewing plans by Cargill Inc. of Minnetonka, the nation's No. 1 grain company, to buy the worldwide operations of second-ranked Continental Grain Co. Livestock producers long have been complaining about declining competition among meatpackers. -- Associated Press __________________________________________ Ms. Renske van Staveren, Coordinator International Forum on Food & Agriculture (IFA) c/o Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis, MN, USA 55404-2505 ph: 612-870-3423 fax: 612-870-4846 rvanstaveren@iatp.org> http://www.iffah.org __________________________________________ "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 17:00:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12022 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:00:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA04095 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:00:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA04078 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:00:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from renskebert.iatp.org ([208.141.36.78]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.56) with SMTP id 125 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:06:04 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990318151726.00851100@iatp.org> X-Sender: rvanstaveren@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:17:26 -0600 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Renske van Staveren" Subject: The first line says it all... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 >From Mpls/St. Paul Star Tribune, 16 March 1999 A special pledge to MPR: Two more radio stations Noel Holston and Ann Merrill / Star Tribune If a $66 donation to Minnesota Public Radio is good for a souvenir tote bag or a "Morning Edition" mug, what do you get if you give MPR a pair of million-dollar-plus radio stations? The gratitude of public-radio listeners statewide and a tax deduction to boot. Jim Cargill and his wife, Susan, called their gift of two commercial radio stations -- KLBB (1400 AM) and WLOL (1470 AM) -- a gesture of support for public broadcasting at a time when state policymakers are debating whether to wean such broadcasters off public funding.... http://www.startribune.com/stOnLine/cgi-bin/article?thisSlug=MPR16&date=16-M ar-99&word=cargills&word=cargill __________________________________________ Ms. Renske van Staveren, Coordinator International Forum on Food & Agriculture (IFA) c/o Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis, MN, USA 55404-2505 ph: 612-870-3423 fax: 612-870-4846 rvanstaveren@iatp.org> http://www.iffah.org __________________________________________ "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 17:21:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12520 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:21:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA16467 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:22:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA16451 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:22:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 6505 ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:24:36 EST Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3855; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:24:36 -0500 Message-Id: <18MAR99.17722748.0308.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:24:35 EST From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: Debra Viskelis , Subject: Co-op-ting Organic/Le Monde X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 I just got round to reading the article referenced in a recent post by Donald E Davison. It contained a short abstract of an article that appeared recently in Le Monde. For those of you who may have not had a look, at the full article, you should. It is in English by the way. It is quite well done and takes dead aim at the issue of the growing interest and influence of large enterprise (aka agro-industrial complex) in the organic sector. From: donald@mich.com (Donald E Davison) Subject: Big Business into Organic Farming ORGANIC FOOD: LIES AND PROFITS Bio business is big business * by Chantal Le Noallec http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/en/1999/03/16bio.html On a related note, there will be an organic conference in Lyon France this December which will touch on these and related issues. More on the conference later. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 19:15:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15105 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:15:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA09235 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:32:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA09213 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:32:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25185 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:32:04 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199903182332.SAA25185@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: 17 year locusts To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:32:04 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 Friends - This is the year for the 17 year locusts (I heard they were actually cicadas), and I am wondering what effect they might have on our vegetable crops here in SE Ohio. We grow 2.5 acres organic vegetables for a CSA here. Anybody know? Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 19:43:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15514 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:43:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA15085 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:43:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eclogite.geo.umass.edu (eclogite.geo.umass.edu [128.119.45.20]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14960; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:43:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by eclogite.geo.umass.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA03517; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:43:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:43:19 -0500 (EST) From: Beth Rennekamp X-Sender: bethr@eclogite To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Respons to Charlie Griffin's post In-Reply-To: <199903181308.IAA01281@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 -When a farm purchases RR soybeans they have to sign a contract allowing monsanto to come onto their farm and inspect it for up to five years. So, as long as the fields being tested are those of farmers who have signed this contract (which is ALL farmers who use RR soybeans), then (unfortunatly) this is legal. As for other fields-- I'm unsure. (I would hope that these agents would know better thatn to test on the fields of an organic farmer-as RR resistence would be of no use). Beth Charlie Griggin's questions are below. I heard the piece tonight on the evening NPR while on the road. Help me understand if I heard one part correctly. I believe it was said that Monsanto "agents" go around to fields suspected of having planted illicit seeds and go onto the property and spray a few selected soybean plants with Roundup, then come back the next day and see if the plants died. If not, they consider it evidence of having RR beans and pursue legal recourse. Is this really the way it happens? And if they go onto private land of a producer not dealing with RR beans, spray Roundup and kill some plants, have they not damaged someone's crop, even if it is just a few plants? And if it were an organic operation, would they not have just ruined someone's certification by introducing spray? Please tell me this isn't the way it's really happening? Perhaps I've missed some vital details along the way. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 19:49:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15601 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:49:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA00732 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:07:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00662 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:07:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA20655 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:07:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.210] (term6-18.vta.west.net [205.254.241.210]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A26F2249CA for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:07:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:07:25 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: UK: New research reveals [GE?] soya food allergies increased 50% last year Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 Why soya is a hidden destroyer Daily Express 12 March 99 Exclusive by Mark Townsend Fresh fears over the safety of genetically modified foods surfaced faced yesterday after new research revealed that food allergies relating to soya increased by 50 per cent last year. A study by Europe's leading specialists on food sensitivity found health complaints caused by soya - the ingredient most associated with GM foods - have increased from 10 in 100 patients to 15 in 100 over the past year. Researchers at the York Nutritional Laboratory said their findings provide real evidence that GM food could have a tangible, harmful impact on the human body. The findings were sent to Health Secretary Frank Dobson last night as scientists urged the Government to act on the information and impose an instant ban on GM food, while further safety tests are carried out. Dr Michael Antoniou, senior lecturer in molecular pathology at Guy's Hospital, Central London, said: "This is a very interesting if slightly worrying development. It points to the fact that far more work is needed to assess their safety. At the moment no allergy tests are carried out before GM foods are marketed and that also needs to be looked at." John Graham, spokesman for the York laboratory, said: "We believe this raises serious new questions about the safety of GM foods because it is impossible to guarantee that the soya used in the tests was GM-free." It is the first time in 17 years of testing that soya has crept into the laboratory's top 10 foods to cause an allergic reaction in consumers. The vegetable has moved up four places to ninth end now sits alongside foodstuffs with a long history of causing allergies, such as yeast, sunflower seeds and nuts. Mr. Graham said researchers tested 4,500 people for allergic reactions to vegetables including soya. Among the range of chronic illnesses it caused were irritable bowel syndrome, digestion problems and skin complaints including acne and eczema. "People also suffered neurological problems with chronic fatigue syndrome, headaches and lethargy. It is worrying," Mr Graham added. Researchers measured the levels of antibodies in a person's blood. If increased levels were detected it showed the person suffered an adverse reaction to a particular food. Soya, the wonder crop of the 20th century is found in 60 per cent of all processed foods sold in the UK - from bread to baby food, ready-to-eat curries to vegetarian lasagne. But because GM and natural soya are mixed at source in America - the world's biggest supplier - it has become increasingly difficult for retailers to guarantee the purity of any products. Last month campaigners from Greenpeace dumped four tons of GM soya beans from America at the gates of Downing Street in protest. The Consumers' Association yesterday renewed its demand for the Government to investigate the safety of GM foods. A spokesman said: "We just don't know what health problems could arise in the future. " Waitrose yesterday announced that it would be stocking its own-label GM-free foods by the end of the month. Managing director David Felwick said: "We believe customers should be able to make an informed choice about the products they are buying." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 19:51:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15668 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:51:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA00839 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:08:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00745 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:07:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA20657 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:07:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from [205.254.241.210] (term6-18.vta.west.net [205.254.241.210]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A4C6A249CB for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:07:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:07:27 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: LA Times: Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says Health: Fetuses and young children in farm areas are at highest risk, research suggests, with intelligence, motor skills and personalities affected. By MARLA CONE Los Angeles Times Environmental Writer Monday, March 15, 1999 Children exposed to pesticides in the womb or at an early age may suffer permanent brain defects that could change their lives by altering their behavior and their ability to do everything from drawing a picture to catching a ball, according to new scientific research. Widely used pest-killing chemicals, in amounts routinely found in the environment in farm areas, seem to be capable of skewing thyroid hormones, which control how the brain of a fetus or young child develops, according to a study published today. Scientists say the study and other recent research support an emerging theory that pesticides may exact a toll on the intelligence, motor skills and personalities of infants, toddlers and preschoolers. "Data suggest that we may be raising a generation of children with learning disabilities and hyper-aggression," said Warren Porter, a University of Wisconsin professor of zoology and environmental toxicology. Porter's study, published today in the journal Toxicology and Industrial Health, shows that a common mix of insecticide, herbicide and fertilizer found in drinking water altered the thyroid hormones of young mice. It also changed their aggressiveness--measured by attacks on other mice--and suppressed their immune systems. Although a study of mice alone is not overly compelling, the theory is bolstered by recent research on human beings. In tests in the state of Sonora, Mexico, scientists found striking differences in hand-eye coordination and other mental and physical skills when comparing Yaqui Indian preschoolers in an agrarian region with those in adjacent foothills where no pesticides are used. Four- and 5-year-olds living in the farm valley had trouble performing a variety of simple motor skills--drawing stick figures, catching a 12-inch ball from almost four yards away and a tennis ball from more than a yard away, and dropping raisins into a bottle cap from a distance of six inches. They also had poorer memory skills and stamina, were more prone to physical aggression and angry outbursts, and were less sociable and creative while playing. Farm and household pest-killers are widely used there, and high levels of multiple pesticides have been found in the cord blood of newborns and the breast milk of mothers in the area. Another study, in rural western Minnesota, found increased birth defects in children conceived during the spring growing season. Most of the new research detects problems in agricultural communities--places found not just in rural regions but also in more urbanized areas, including Southern California. No one knows yet what it might mean for people who consume small traces of the chemicals in their food. Earlier this month, Consumers Union reported that many fruits and vegetables contain concentrations of pesticides that may be unhealthful for children. The new hormone studies add to a growing body of research from around the world suggesting that dozens of commonly used pesticides and other chemicals mimic the hormones that control sexual and neurological development. Called endocrine disruption, this is arguably the most controversial environmental issue of the past decade. >From alligators in Florida to polar bears in the Arctic, wild animals in pollution hot spots have been feminized by hormone-disrupting chemicals that imitate estrogen or block testosterone, scientists say. But the impact on human beings--who generally are exposed to much lower levels of pollution--is more controversial and uncertain. In addition to the possible neurological effects, some researchers theorize that the hormone disrupters could be reducing men's sperm counts or increasing diseases of the reproductive system. Pesticide company representatives--and some toxicologists and other scientists -- remain skeptical that commonly found levels of pesticides can alter human thyroid and sex hormones. "I'm kind of dubious that low-level exposures to chemicals are raising all kinds of havoc with the endocrine system," said John McCarthy, vice president of a group representing pesticide manufacturers, the American Crop Protection Assn. "The human system has so many protective mechanisms, and our bodies are bombarded with all kinds of things." Still, he said, the industry is highly concerned about the findings suggesting neurological damage, and would like to see a comprehensive review to evaluate all existing studies and figure out what they collectively show. "We ought to be taking a very hard look at it," McCarthy said. "There's almost a study a week of one type or another, and it's hard to see how it all fits together. We have to take some time to say, 'OK, what does this all mean? Is this something that should require some abrupt change [in pesticides] or fine-tuning or more research?'" No one knows how many pesticides out of 77,000 used in the United States might alter sex or thyroid hormones. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires tests that screen pesticides for cancer and birth defects--but not for hormone effects. A committee last year devised new testing requirements--supported by the pesticide industry--that are expected to take effect in 2001. It has long been suspected that various environmental pollutants can damage brain development. Industrial compounds called PCBs have been linked to learning disabilities in children of women who ate contaminated Great Lakes fish. The link to pesticides is far from definitive, however, and big gaps in knowledge remain. Questions abound: How do the contaminants disrupt thyroid levels? What does that physically do to the brain? What dose of exposure does it take? Does the human body have some defense mechanism to fend off low levels of hormones? What do mixes of various man-made and natural hormones do to people? Some scientists suspect that the damage is passed from a mother to her unborn child early in the first trimester, before most women even know they are pregnant. Thyroid hormones guide the nerve cells that dictate how the brain of a fetus develops and the number of brain cells created. One theory is that if a mother receives a dose of pesticides during this critical phase, it can interfere with her thyroid levels -- sometimes raising them, sometimes lowering them--irreversibly altering the child's nervous system. How the child's brain circuitry develops determines his or her hand-eye coordination, motor skills and learning ability. Thyroid hormones also can change behavior--an excess can make people quick to anger, while a low count could have the opposite effect. The hormones also can alter steroids that control aggression and immune systems. "Thyroid hormones are important to brain development, and that's been known for a long time," said Dr. Harley Kornblum, a pediatric neurologist at the UCLA Medical Center. But, he and other neurologists say, it's debatable how important the mother's thyroid level is to the fetus, and it's even more uncertain what role environmental contaminants may play. Porter said children up to age 8 who have developing brains and immune systems are "especially vulnerable" to changes in thyroid hormones. Some symptoms of children exposed to pesticides are similar to attention deficit hyperactivity disorders, which have been increasingly diagnosed in American children. Some medical research supports a link between thyroid hormones and those disorders, but the connection, especially with pesticides, remains unclear. The implication for adults, and whether pesticides might cause thyroid disorders, also is unknown. In the study of 50 Mexican children, the scientists, led by anthropologist Elizabeth Guillette of the University of Arizona, said genetic and social factors--including income, education and health services--are so similar between the farm valley and the foothills that they cannot explain the differences in the youngsters' cognitive ability. "These children share similar genetic background, diets, water mineral contents, cultural patterns and social behaviors. The major difference was their exposure to pesticides," Guillette and Mexican researchers said in a report published in June in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives. Most of the stick-figure drawings by the 4- and 5-year-olds in the farm valley were unrecognizable as human beings--they look like the scribbles of a 2-year-old. In contrast, drawings by the foothill children had heads, eyes, torsos, arms and legs. Experts say that the inability to draw a person indicates a breakdown between the brain's ability to process visual information and its ability to control fine muscles. "Some valley mothers stressed their own frustration in trying to teach their child how to draw. In addition, two valley children drew pictures composed of boxes, arches and lines, claiming these pictures were people," the researchers reported. Other tests pointed to recollection and stamina problems. One foothill child could jump for 336 seconds--over three times longer than the best-performing valley child. Some scientists remain dubious of the results because the tests on the children were unusual, and are intrinsically subjective and difficult to interpret. Dr. Richard Jackson, director of the National Center for Environmental Health at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said his staff was "unimpressed by the scientific rigor" of the work in the report. McCarthy said that although the differences between the two populations of children seem striking, other hidden factors, rather than pesticide exposure, cannot be ruled out. Other studies, meanwhile, show that pesticide exposure during the first trimester of pregnancy increases birth defects. The University of Minnesota and the federal EPA in a 1996 study found a high rate of birth defects in the children of Minnesotans who work as pesticide appliers as well as the general population of western Minnesota, a major farm region with heavy pesticide use. The defect rate was the highest among babies born nine months after the spring season, indicating that the risk rises for children conceived during the time when pesticide use increases. In Porter's 5-year study of mice, the animals drank water containing a mixture of two pesticides--aldicarb and atrazine--and nitrates from fertilizer. The concentrations ingested by the mice were similar to those found in ground water in many agricultural areas, Porter said. Aldicarb, atrazine and nitrates are the three most abundant agricultural contaminants in the United States, although they do not rank high in use in California. While the mix of the three chemicals altered the mice hormones, each one alone did not. That points out a gaping hole in the federal effort to protect consumers--the EPA only tests for effects of pesticides individually, not cumulatively. The EPA tests, Porter said, "generate a great deal of false confidence in the safety" of pesticides. Source: Environmental Health Perspectives, June 1998. Copyright 1999 Los Angeles Times. All Rights Reserved To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 20:34:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA16471 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:34:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA00783 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:52:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA00764 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 1578 invoked from network); 19 Mar 1999 00:51:51 -0000 Received: from squash-39.breezewood.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.139) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 1999 00:51:51 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990318193337.00953e40@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:49:13 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: 17 year locusts In-Reply-To: <199903182332.SAA25185@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 At 06:32 PM 3/18/1999 -0500, Kevin Smyth wrote: >Friends - This is the year for the 17 year locusts (I heard they were >actually cicadas), and I am wondering what effect they might have on our >vegetable crops here in SE Ohio. We grow 2.5 acres organic vegetables for >a CSA here. Anybody know? Kevin-- Remembering all this from 1986, when the 17-year cicadas hatched hereabouts. No prob with the veggies. If you have young trees, you may want to protect them with netting for six weeks or so after the cicadas emerge. After emerging, the cicadas basically just want to mate and lay eggs, which they prefer to do in twigs. If the trees are young and small, the egg-laying from so many cicadas could do enough damage to admit secondary fungal infections. When the eggs hatch, the larvae drop to the ground and burrow in, and they feed on the roots of the tree/shrub for the next 16 years. Again, a young tree probably can't handle that much blood-sucking. Mature trees won't be damaged. Cicadas don't lay their eggs on annual veggies. The only damage we observed was in areas that were cleared when we bought the farm but apparently were tree-covered at the time of the last cicada hatching. The cicadas came up so hot and heavy that they actually uprooted newly transplanted seedlings. (In Washington, DC, they came up through asphalt laid down where trees had stood 17 years earlier.) If your land has been cleared for at least 17 years, you may have no problem at all. If it was forested back then, get yourself some ear plugs. Like annual cicadas, the 17-year guys are music-makers. And there are a lot more of them. Cass Peterson www.flickerville.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 20:56:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA16752 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:56:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA11298 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:09:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA11279 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:09:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp9.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.109]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA07190 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:07:33 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <000f01be71a4$bdd23dc0$6d4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie M." To: Subject: Study of Farm Women Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:06:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 Forwarded from the Farmbiz-L list: For Immediate Release For More Information: Lydia Zepeda (608) 262-9487 zepeda@calshp.cals.wisc.edu STUDY DOCUMENTS WOMEN'S IMPORTANCE IN MAKING DECISIONS ON FARMS Auntie Em did the laundry and the cooking, and was referred to as a "farm wife." But farm women today bristle at that term. Now farm women consider themselves farmers, too. And well they should: They manage and care for calves, milk and feed the cows, take charge of farm finances, and do artificial insemination. They also have a much larger role in decision-making than economists give them credit for. Until agricultural economist Lydia Zepeda did her research, all the economic models of technology adoption assumed that farms had one decision-maker, typically the male head of the household. "What I found was women involved in every task on the farm except crops and machinery," said Zepeda, professor in the University of Wisconsin-Madison's School of Human Ecology. Zepeda's observations were drawn from two studies of Wisconsin dairy farmers. In the first, she surveyed 600 couples to determine how men and women spent their time and made decisions. In the second, she interviewed 19 couples from the survey in four focus groups, separating men and women. She asked all participants to describe a long-term decision they had made about the farm, and to imagine what they'd do if they had an extra $500 per month. Zepeda's survey, which was supported by the College of Agricultural and Life Sciences and the Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems, revealed not only that women have undertaken a diversity of tasks, but also that they spend longer hours at work than men do. Women spent 61 percent of the day doing the combination of farm work, housework and off-farm work, while men spent 55 percent of the day in those jobs. For both men and women, the rest of their day was devoted to sleep, personal care and leisure activities. Men said they spent 45 percent of their day on farm work, two percent on off-farm work and eight percent on housework. Women spent 21 percent of the day on farm work, 11 percent on off-farm work and 29 percent on housework. Some of the women worked 40 hours a week off the farm. Women's off-farm work not only helped provide benefits, but also gave the women a sense of pride. "It gives them a better bargaining chip," Zepeda said. "Naturally they have more clout with money." What do they do with that bargaining chip? They use it to expand their role in making decisions. Some women said that when they were children, there might have been only one decision-maker on the farm, typically the father or grandfather. Now, couples tend to make long-term decisions together, while the spouse who performs a daily activity makesthe decisions about that activity on a day-to-day basis. One man said, "On a major decision, we both make the decision. But I don't consult her on what bulls I'm going to use, and she doesn't consult me when it comes to raising the calves. If she sees a sick calf, she doesn't have to check it out with me before she takes care of it, you know." Similarly, a woman said, "I do most of the stuff with the cows, and I basically make our decisions there. The crop stuff, he basically takes care of that." On the other hand, a man recalled a major mistake he'd made early in his marriage. He and his wife had been discussing another site for their double-wide mobile home, but hadn't come to a decision yet. One day when she was at work, he just decided to move it. The other farm men in the focus group shook their heads and asked him, "How could you have done that?" And that, in stronger terms, was exactly what his wife asked once she found the home. Both men and women in the focus groups stressed the need to have common goals and share decision-making. Men, however, thought their wives had equal roles in making decisions. Women weren't as convinced. Some women thought their role was to approve decisions their husbands had made. Others laughed as they mentioned manipulating their husbands into making decisions. One woman said, "I think sometimes you have to push a little here and there, let them think it's their decision." Zepeda's focus groups showed that women make decisions about milking and caring for calves, while men made decisions about feed. The survey found the men responsible for most of the decisions about crops, pastures and feeding. On the other hand, the survey found that women made most of the decisions about child care, their own off-farm work and family leisure time. As for the budget, most people said it was either a joint decision or a woman's decision. Most farmers now own computers for financial records. "The women knew more than their husbands did about computers," Zepeda said. The men knew how much debt they carried, but because women did most of the bill-paying and shopping, they knew how it affected purchasing decisions on a day-to-day basis, Zepeda said. While farm women may not be recognized off the farm as farmers yet, at least their husbands express appreciation for them. Zepeda said she was moved by the way farm men talked about how much their wives meant to them. One man said, "When I got out of the service in '58 the first thing I did was find a wife. It didn't take long. That was the best decision I ever made." ### farm women 3/99 writer: Mary Conroy (608) 262-0111 mjconroy@students.wisc.edu ******************************************************************** Bob Cooney, press service editor College of Agricultural and Life Sciences University of Wisconsin-Madison 440 Henry Mall Madison WI 53706 phone (608) 262-2679 FAX (608) 265-3042 rjcooney@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 23:31:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18992 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:31:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA15458 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:33:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15440 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:33:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA23689 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:33:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.coin.missouri.edu (Mizzou-AS8-43.missouri.edu [128.206.209.139]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA701002 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:32:54 -0600 Message-ID: <36F1C6AB.85FB6D5C@mail.coin.missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:38:21 -0600 From: Kevin Webb Reply-To: kwebb01@mail.coin.missouri.edu Organization: b01 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: LA Times: Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 Much of this article seems to have been based on the book "Our Stolen Future : Are We Threatening Our Fertility, Intelligence, and Survival?-A Scientific Detective Story" by Theo Colburn, et al (ISBN: 0452274141). The book is a must read for anyone seeking an articulate and definitively damning critique of our societys use of chemicals. Theo Colburn is an experienced and respected scientist with a gift for writing clearly and concisely (a rare feat for most scientists). I highly reccomend it. Kevin Webb To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 23:31:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18993 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:31:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA17760 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:36:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ram.wlink.com.np (IDENT:qmailr@ram.wlink.com.np [206.82.134.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA17677 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:36:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 17900 invoked from network); 19 Mar 1999 03:36:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail) (206.82.134.50) by ram.wlink.com.np with SMTP; 19 Mar 1999 03:36:31 -0000 Message-Id: From: Yamuna Ghale Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 9:07:48 +0545 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: sanet-mg-digest MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310104525/310104495/310400190/ X-Engine: "TFS Engine Release 3.12 Build 132e" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA17726 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 Date: 03/19/1999 10:07 am (Friday) : Yamuna Ghale To: tfs:"sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: sanet-mg-digest sanet-mg-digest -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yamuna Ghale ACTIONAID Nepal Lazimpat GPO Box no. 6257 Kathmandu Nepal My E-mail address is: yamunag@actionaidnepal.org Tel: 419115, 421232, 410929, 436477 Fax: 977 (01) 419718 Visit our web site at: http://www.actionaidnepal.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 18 23:33:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA19026 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:33:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA23223 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:41:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA23206 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:41:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.coin.missouri.edu (Mizzou-AS8-43.missouri.edu [128.206.209.139]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA725298 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:40:49 -0600 Message-ID: <36F1C887.EF72D06B@mail.coin.missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:46:17 -0600 From: Kevin Webb Reply-To: kwebb01@mail.coin.missouri.edu Organization: b01 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: 17 year locusts References: <199903182332.SAA25185@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 I've never heard of cicadas harming vegetables. I know that they can hurt trees (they deposit their eggs typically between a limb and the trunk). I'm not sure what they eat in the interim, I've never seen them in our fields, though. Kevin Smyth wrote: > Friends - This is the year for the 17 year locusts (I heard they were > actually cicadas), and I am wondering what effect they might have on our > vegetable crops here in SE Ohio. We grow 2.5 acres organic vegetables for > a CSA here. Anybody know? > Kevin Smyth > ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 04:45:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA21720 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 04:45:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA14685 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 04:02:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA14628 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 04:02:06 -0500 (EST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7RLOa24548 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 04:01:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 04:01:22 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LA Times: Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 So _that's_ why it's so difficult for the masses to see what's so obvious to the rest of us? Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 06:53:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22563 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:53:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA27563 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 05:51:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA27540 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 05:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp222.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.222]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id GAA03156 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:54:25 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 06:53:10 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-17; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 [Reposted with permission] French environmentalists want longer gene crop ban March 16, 1999 PARIS, Reuters [WS] via NewsEdge Corporation : French environmental groups, spurred on by talk of a possible freeze on gene-crops in Britain, on Monday called for a longer, broader moratorium in France so wider tests could be carried out. ``This is a sign of encouragement which should push the French government to reconsider the risks from gene modified foods,'' said campaigner Etienne Vernet at Ecoropa. ``We want a moratorium on all types of GM food for three to five years so we can do more tests. If Britain did impose a three year freeze, France should do the same thing.'' Greenpeace France Director Bruno Rebelle also backed a freeze on GM crops until at least 2002 and more rigorous tests. France imposed a two-year freeze on genetically engineered oilseed varieties last July after concerns the modifications could be transmitted to other crops. ........ Here are the Conclusions and Recommendations of the Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Animal Welfare on the Animal Welfare Aspects of the Use of Bovine Somatotrophin (Adopted 10 March 1999). Full text is on website http://europa. eu.int/comm/dg24/health/sc/scah/out21_en.html General conclusion BST is used to increase milk yield, often in already high-producing cows. BST administration causes substantially and very significantly poorer welfare because of increased foot disorders, mastitis, reproductive disorders and other production related diseases. These are problems which would not occur if BST were not used and often results in unnecessary pain, suffering and distress. If milk yields were achieved by other means which resulted in the health disorders and other welfare problems described above, these means would not be acceptable. The injection of BST and its repetition every 14 days also causes localised swellings which are likely to result in discomfort and hence some poor welfare. Recommendation BST use causes a substantial increase in levels of foot problems and mastitis and leads to injection site reactions in dairy cows. These conditions, especially the first two, are painful and debilitating, leading to significantly poorer welfare in the treated animals. Therefore from the point of view of animal welfare, including health, the Scientific Committee on Animal Health and Animal Welfare is of the opinion that BST should not be used in dairy cows. ......... March 17, 1999 Canada Approved Genetically Modified Canola Tolerant to an Herbicide Causing Birth Defects by Joe Cummins, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Genetics, University of Western Ontario e-mail: jcummins@julian.uwo.ca Canada has approved genetically engineered canola patented by the multinational chemical company Rhone Poulenc for their herbicides Bromoxynl and Ioxynil. The herbicide Bromoxynil has a history of controversy in its use after it was found that it caused birth defects in rats and mice. In the United States, the use of Bromoxynl on cotton was a source of controversy. However, in Canada (where government departments of Agriculture and Health take multimillion dollar payments from chemical companies) the herbicide was quietly approved and used extensively to control weeds in grain crops that are innately tolerant to the herbicide. The herbicide Bromoxynl is sprayed on the Bromoxynl-resistant canola. As the herbicide is very persistent in treated soil, when farmers rotate crops, Bromoxynl residues can accumulate in grains rotated on the same land. Residues of the teratogenic herbicide are likely to accumulate in the harvested canola oil and in the cattle and pig food from the residues recovered from pressing canola seed to recover oil. Such pressing residues have also been used as fertilizer on organic farms, a procedure that should be reviewed on the basis of transferring genetic modifications and teratogenic herbicides. The journal Biotechnology noted that there was a very high likelihood that the herbicide tolerant gene would be transferred to unpatented canola and to at least seven wild plant species but the transfer to wild plant was a minimal threat as the resistant species could be controlled by other herbicides as they became weeds. The impact of use of the genetically modified crop on biodiversity was given brief discussion with no data and no fundamental knowledge of biodiversity. Another genetically modified canola, Liberty Ready canola, also employs a highly teratogenic herbicide glufosinate. Importers of canola oil or animal feed from pressed seed should be made aware of these developments and that the products are not labeled. Clearly the Canadian approval process bears the stamp of the millions of dollars from chemical companies. The information on approval of Bromoxynil resistant canola was taken from Plant Biotechnology Canada August 19,1998 .......... ASHDOWN URGES SPECIAL WTO GROUP ON GENETIC FOODS GENEVA, March 11 (Reuters) - Britain's outgoing Liberal Democratic leader Paddy Ashdown said on Thursday the controversial issue of genetically-modified crops should be part of the next global round of trade liberalisation talks. Speaking after talks at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) and with trade ambassadors of the European Union and the United States, he warned tha t the issue could become a "huge problem" that could poison relations between the two powers. "The WTO regulations were not set up to handle GMOs," he told a news conference, using the acronym for genetically-modified organisms which are rapidly emerging as a potentially explosive topic in international trade. ........ From: genetics Subject: GE - news 17th March Greenpeace welcomes major global steps to get out of genetically modified food AMSTERDAM, March 17, 1999 - Greenpeace International today welcomed two major steps towards a genetically modified (GM) free food supply at two different ends of the world. Monsanto, the world's most aggressive seller of genetically engineered seeds yesterday announced that it had withdrawn applications for approval of their herbicide resistant (Roundup Ready) soyabeans in Brazil. The step comes after massive protests by environmental and consumers organisations as well as scientists and lawmakers in Brazil. Brazil is the worlds second biggest exporter of soyabeans. Soyabeans are used in 60 per cent of processed supermarket food products including bread, pasta, yoghurt, chocolate and ice-cream. At the same time the UK retailer J. Sainsbury's announced that it will not sell any genetically engineered products under it's own label. Sainsbury's also revealed that it had formed a consortium of major European retailers, including Marks & Spencer (UK), Carrefour (France), Superquinn (Ireland), Migros (Switzerland), Delhaiz (Belgium) and Effelunga (Italy), who will jointly source GM-free products. "This is the beginning of the end of trying to forcefeed consumers unwanted and unneeded genetically manipulated food", commented Greenpeace International's campaigner Benedikt Haerlin. "We hope to see more supermarket chains and food producers join the GM-free consortium in the next few days." Haerlin added that other major food producers and retailers, such as Unilever in Germany and Austria, and 90 percent of all supermarkets in Austria and countless small producers have already declared that they are GM free. "No supermarket or food producer can claim that it was not possible to avoid GM ingredients in their products." _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 09:24:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24698 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:23:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11478 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:30:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11468 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:30:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:33:45 -0500 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'voces@igc.org'" Subject: FW: Position announcement, Rural Development Center Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:33:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id IAA11469 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 Applications will be accepted until the position is filled, in March or April, 1999. A detailed resume and related information and material should be sent to the Rural Development Center, P. O. Box 5415, Salinas, CA 93915 Contact RDC for more information (831)758-1469 -----Original Message----- From: Selene Jaramillo [mailto:voces@igc.org] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 6:53 PM Subject: Position announcement-please post and distribute Program Representative Rural Development Center: Farmer Training and Technical Assistance Program The Rural Development Center (RDC) seeks a self-motivated, innovative individual to help promote the development of a new Farmer Training Center and Technical Assistance Program. Over the past 13 years, the RDC has built a solid record of training family farmers in sustainable farming systems, and has provided limited technical assistance and outreach to Latino farmers throughout the Monterey Bay Area. The goal of the new program is to expand and adapt RDC's training program to the specific needs of hillside farmers in and around the Elkhorn Slough Watershed, to coordinate outreach activities with other technical assistance partners and collaborators, and to secure adequate support for the development and staffing of a training facility in the area. The proposed Farmer Training Center is part of a collaborative project to promote appropriate land management, natural resource conservation, and sustainable farming practices among farmers and rural residents around the Central Monterey Bay Wetlands. The project targets three types of actions to achieve this goal: Watershed Communication and Education, Farmer Training and Technical Assistance, and Land Management Incentives. These activities will be achieved through the combined efforts of public and private organizations including the USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service, local Resource Conservation Districts, UC Cooperative Extension, and the Community Alliance with Family Farmers. The RDC is the lead partner in the Farmer Training and Technical Assistance component of this collaborative effort. The Program Representative will initially be based at the RDC (south of Salinas) to benefit from the resources and experience of the RDC and to learn the training approach used there. The focus of the work, however, will be on establishing a comprehensive research, demonstration and training program on alternative crops, production methods, and marketing appropriate to hillside farmers who tend to be of Mexican ancestry with limited financial resources. The program goal is to establish permanent systems of support, reduce the personal risk to farmers who agree to try alternative production systems, and encourage collaboration within the farming community to reduce environmental impacts of current farming practices. The primary tasks for the first year are to: Conduct a survey of farmers and landowners that will participate in and benefit from the project; Coordinate discussions and organize meetings among the various partners to explore and delineate expectations, issues and concerns related to the project, define and specify partner roles and responsibilities, secure commitments, and formalize agreements; Develop specific implementation plans and projected budget; Secure adequate multi-year support for full project implementation; Survey potential sites for the demonstration farm and work with funders to secure land; Explore the range of possible practical incentives for farmer and landowner participation in training and technical assistance programs. In the second year of the project, assuming that the project will by then be fully funded, the tasks may be expanded to fully implement the training program including: Establish a demonstration farm (50-100 acres) on representative farmland within the Watershed. A range of crop experiments and conservation farming practices will be demonstrated. Local farmers will be invited to try new farming systems on 5 acre parcels, and will be provided incentives to participate, such as reduced rent, on-site consultations and access to equipment. Organize regular meetings for participating farmers to compare results and discuss applicability to other farms. Sponsor field days, farmer meetings, farm visits, and provide on site technical assistance to disseminate and promote the adoption of best management practices developed on the demonstration farm. Coordinate technical assistance from participating agricultural advisors. Offer a training program for outside farmers to teach about new crops, technologies and conservation practices. Depending on performance and the availability of resources, this will be a two-year position with an excellent benefits package. Salary is commensurate with experience and qualifications within the range of comparable positions in community-based organizations. Applications will be accepted until the position is filled, in March or April, 1999. A detailed resume and related information and material should be sent to the Rural Development Center, P. O. Box 5415, Salinas, CA 93915 Contact RDC for more information (831)758-1469 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 10:43:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26520 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:43:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA23905 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:36:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA23859 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:36:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn09tc5.gdinet.com [156.46.27.10]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA24286 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:36:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:36:52 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903191436.IAA24286@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: Re: 17 year locusts Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 Kevin, I haven't experienced the music of 17 year locusts for a long time. I was fortunate enough to be camping on the current river in Mossouri the year that group(they do this 17 year thing in regional bands)came out to sing. It was beautiful! They started singing in the afternoon and carried on well into the night. Their song changes as the night progresses, becoming more melodious, serenading you to sleep. In the morning all is quiet. My friend didn't like them. He said If those damn bugs don't shut-up I'm going to spray this whole state with DDT. But he doen't like jazz or appreciate the finer things in life. My advice is to enjoy the upcoming show! I really don't know a thing about there life cycle, but I'd bet they are more interested in sex than food...that's why they sing so nice. Greg Prarie Dock Farm >Friends - This is the year for the 17 year locusts (I heard they were >actually cicadas), and I am wondering what effect they might have on our >vegetable crops here in SE Ohio. We grow 2.5 acres organic vegetables for >a CSA here. Anybody know? >Kevin Smyth >ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 12:44:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29303 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00933 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:42:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00893 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:41:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mhub2.tc.umn.edu (mhub2.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.42]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05743 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:41:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by mhub2.tc.umn.edu with ESMTP for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:41:59 -0600 Received: from [160.94.23.50] by gold.tc.umn.edu for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:41:51 -0600 From: "Brian A DeVore" Reply-To: "Brian A DeVore" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: LA Times: Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b4 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:41:59 -0600 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 If you want to read more about this subject check out the following page: http://www.misa.umn.edu/lspv16n3.html It features a story that quotes Warren Porter extensively. It also examines the Minnesota study done by Vincent Garry on relationships between birth defects and the seasons. - Brian DeVore, Land Stewardship Project Pesticides May Harm Brain, Study Says Health: Fetuses and young children in farm areas are at highest risk, research suggests, with intelligence, motor skills and personalities affected. By MARLA CONE Los Angeles Times Environmental Writer Monday, March 15, 1999 Children exposed to pesticides in the womb or at an early age may suffer permanent brain defects that could change their lives by altering their behavior and their ability to do everything from drawing a picture to catching a ball, according to new scientific research. Widely used pest-killing chemicals, in amounts routinely found in the environment in farm areas, seem to be capable of skewing thyroid hormones, which control how the brain of a fetus or young child develops, according to a study published today. Scientists say the study and other recent research support an emerging theory that pesticides may exact a toll on the intelligence, motor skills and personalities of infants, toddlers and preschoolers. "Data suggest that we may be raising a generation of children with learning disabilities and hyper-aggression," said Warren Porter, a University of Wisconsin professor of zoology and environmental toxicology. Porter's study, published today in the journal Toxicology and Industrial Health, shows that a common mix of insecticide, herbicide and fertilizer found in drinking water altered the thyroid hormones of young mice. It also changed their aggressiveness--measured by attacks on other mice--and suppressed their immune systems. Although a study of mice alone is not overly compelling, the theory is bolstered by recent research on human beings. In tests in the state of Sonora, Mexico, scientists found striking differences in hand-eye coordination and other mental and physical skills when comparing Yaqui Indian preschoolers in an agrarian region with those in adjacent foothills where no pesticides are used. Four- and 5-year-olds living in the farm valley had trouble performing a variety of simple motor skills--drawing stick figures, catching a 12-inch ball from almost four yards away and a tennis ball from more than a yard away, and dropping raisins into a bottle cap from a distance of six inches. They also had poorer memory skills and stamina, were more prone to physical aggression and angry outbursts, and were less sociable and creative while playing. Farm and household pest-killers are widely used there, and high levels of multiple pesticides have been found in the cord blood of newborns and the breast milk of mothers in the area. Another study, in rural western Minnesota, found increased birth defects in children conceived during the spring growing season. Most of the new research detects problems in agricultural communities--places found not just in rural regions but also in more urbanized areas, including Southern California. No one knows yet what it might mean for people who consume small traces of the chemicals in their food. Earlier this month, Consumers Union reported that many fruits and vegetables contain concentrations of pesticides that may be unhealthful for children. The new hormone studies add to a growing body of research from around the world suggesting that dozens of commonly used pesticides and other chemicals mimic the hormones that control sexual and neurological development. Called endocrine disruption, this is arguably the most controversial environmental issue of the past decade. >From alligators in Florida to polar bears in the Arctic, wild animals in pollution hot spots have been feminized by hormone-disrupting chemicals that imitate estrogen or block testosterone, scientists say. But the impact on human beings--who generally are exposed to much lower levels of pollution--is more controversial and uncertain. In addition to the possible neurological effects, some researchers theorize that the hormone disrupters could be reducing men's sperm counts or increasing diseases of the reproductive system. Pesticide company representatives--and some toxicologists and other scientists -- remain skeptical that commonly found levels of pesticides can alter human thyroid and sex hormones. "I'm kind of dubious that low-level exposures to chemicals are raising all kinds of havoc with the endocrine system," said John McCarthy, vice president of a group representing pesticide manufacturers, the American Crop Protection Assn. "The human system has so many protective mechanisms, and our bodies are bombarded with all kinds of things." Still, he said, the industry is highly concerned about the findings suggesting neurological damage, and would like to see a comprehensive review to evaluate all existing studies and figure out what they collectively show. "We ought to be taking a very hard look at it," McCarthy said. "There's almost a study a week of one type or another, and it's hard to see how it all fits together. We have to take some time to say, 'OK, what does this all mean? Is this something that should require some abrupt change [in pesticides] or fine-tuning or more research?'" No one knows how many pesticides out of 77,000 used in the United States might alter sex or thyroid hormones. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires tests that screen pesticides for cancer and birth defects--but not for hormone effects. A committee last year devised new testing requirements--supported by the pesticide industry--that are expected to take effect in 2001. It has long been suspected that various environmental pollutants can damage brain development. Industrial compounds called PCBs have been linked to learning disabilities in children of women who ate contaminated Great Lakes fish. The link to pesticides is far from definitive, however, and big gaps in knowledge remain. Questions abound: How do the contaminants disrupt thyroid levels? What does that physically do to the brain? What dose of exposure does it take? Does the human body have some defense mechanism to fend off low levels of hormones? What do mixes of various man-made and natural hormones do to people? Some scientists suspect that the damage is passed from a mother to her unborn child early in the first trimester, before most women even know they are pregnant. Thyroid hormones guide the nerve cells that dictate how the brain of a fetus develops and the number of brain cells created. One theory is that if a mother receives a dose of pesticides during this critical phase, it can interfere with her thyroid levels -- sometimes raising them, sometimes lowering them--irreversibly altering the child's nervous system. How the child's brain circuitry develops determines his or her hand-eye coordination, motor skills and learning ability. Thyroid hormones also can change behavior--an excess can make people quick to anger, while a low count could have the opposite effect. The hormones also can alter steroids that control aggression and immune systems. "Thyroid hormones are important to brain development, and that's been known for a long time," said Dr. Harley Kornblum, a pediatric neurologist at the UCLA Medical Center. But, he and other neurologists say, it's debatable how important the mother's thyroid level is to the fetus, and it's even more uncertain what role environmental contaminants may play. Porter said children up to age 8 who have developing brains and immune systems are "especially vulnerable" to changes in thyroid hormones. Some symptoms of children exposed to pesticides are similar to attention deficit hyperactivity disorders, which have been increasingly diagnosed in American children. Some medical research supports a link between thyroid hormones and those disorders, but the connection, especially with pesticides, remains unclear. The implication for adults, and whether pesticides might cause thyroid disorders, also is unknown. In the study of 50 Mexican children, the scientists, led by anthropologist Elizabeth Guillette of the University of Arizona, said genetic and social factors--including income, education and health services--are so similar between the farm valley and the foothills that they cannot explain the differences in the youngsters' cognitive ability. "These children share similar genetic background, diets, water mineral contents, cultural patterns and social behaviors. The major difference was their exposure to pesticides," Guillette and Mexican researchers said in a report published in June in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives. Most of the stick-figure drawings by the 4- and 5-year-olds in the farm valley were unrecognizable as human beings--they look like the scribbles of a 2-year-old. In contrast, drawings by the foothill children had heads, eyes, torsos, arms and legs. Experts say that the inability to draw a person indicates a breakdown between the brain's ability to process visual information and its ability to control fine muscles. "Some valley mothers stressed their own frustration in trying to teach their child how to draw. In addition, two valley children drew pictures composed of boxes, arches and lines, claiming these pictures were people," the researchers reported. Other tests pointed to recollection and stamina problems. One foothill child could jump for 336 seconds--over three times longer than the best-performing valley child. Some scientists remain dubious of the results because the tests on the children were unusual, and are intrinsically subjective and difficult to interpret. Dr. Richard Jackson, director of the National Center for Environmental Health at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said his staff was "unimpressed by the scientific rigor" of the work in the report. McCarthy said that although the differences between the two populations of children seem striking, other hidden factors, rather than pesticide exposure, cannot be ruled out. Other studies, meanwhile, show that pesticide exposure during the first trimester of pregnancy increases birth defects. The University of Minnesota and the federal EPA in a 1996 study found a high rate of birth defects in the children of Minnesotans who work as pesticide appliers as well as the general population of western Minnesota, a major farm region with heavy pesticide use. The defect rate was the highest among babies born nine months after the spring season, indicating that the risk rises for children conceived during the time when pesticide use increases. In Porter's 5-year study of mice, the animals drank water containing a mixture of two pesticides--aldicarb and atrazine--and nitrates from fertilizer. The concentrations ingested by the mice were similar to those found in ground water in many agricultural areas, Porter said. Aldicarb, atrazine and nitrates are the three most abundant agricultural contaminants in the United States, although they do not rank high in use in California. While the mix of the three chemicals altered the mice hormones, each one alone did not. That points out a gaping hole in the federal effort to protect consumers--the EPA only tests for effects of pesticides individually, not cumulatively. The EPA tests, Porter said, "generate a great deal of false confidence in the safety" of pesticides. Source: Environmental Health Perspectives, June 1998. Copyright 1999 Los Angeles Times. All Rights Reserved To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail . ------------ Forwarded Message ends here ------------ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 14:06:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01039 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:06:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07028 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:15:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06975 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:14:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09039 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:14:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA32255 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:14:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199903191814.MAA32255@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:14:49 -0500 Subject: > Study of Farm Women X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 Howdy, all-- Thanks to Julie M. for posting the UW-Madison press release on Lydia Zepeda's study of women dairy farmers and their time use and farm family decision-making processes. CIAS has a /Research Brief/ on this project, #29, "Women on dairy farms: Juggling diverse roles and responsibilities." Holler if you want a (paper) copy. And then if you'd like to actually receive it, send me your name and mailing address. :^) Also, we're finalizing the first in a new publications series, an /Issue Focus/ entitled "Women as activists in rural communities." Forthcoming. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis: Anarcho-syndicalism is a way of *preserving* freedom! His Wife: Oh, Dennis, *forget* about freedom! We 'aven't got enough mud! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 14:07:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01053 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:07:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA05263 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:10:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from um-mail01.umsystem.edu (um-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.238.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA05204 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:10:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by um-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:10:33 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Shade, Victoria Tory" To: "'Kevin Smyth'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: 17 year locusts Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:10:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 We had two populations emerge in Missouri last year and some of the trees got a lot of flagging (especially where there were a lot of oaks). In some areas the population was large enough that more than trees got hit with cosmetic damage. However, they do prefer certain species of trees. I went looking for the list, but can't find it right now. I'll try to dig it up. Look at this site for more cicada info. http://www.ummz.lsa.umich.edu/Magicicada/Periodical/Index.html Tory, Se Missouri shadev@missouri.edu -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Smyth [mailto:ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 5:32 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: 17 year locusts Friends - This is the year for the 17 year locusts (I heard they were actually cicadas), and I am wondering what effect they might have on our vegetable crops here in SE Ohio. We grow 2.5 acres organic vegetables for a CSA here. Anybody know? Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 14:13:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01197 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:13:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08032 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:16:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07934 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:16:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from bridgette (ws1.vancomm.com [209.8.22.66]) by mail.his.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24346 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:16:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:14:50 -0300 Message-ID: <01BE720A.7843C7E0.lwilliams@vancomm.com> From: Lisa Williams Reply-To: "lwilliams@vancomm.com" To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Job opening to post, please Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:14:48 -0300 Organization: Vanguard Communications X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 We would love to have this job opening made available to your members on your list-serv. Could you please contact me if you are interested? Thanks! Lisa M. Williams Vanguard Communications 202-331-4323, ext. 3022 mailto:lwilliams@vancomm.com Campaign Coordinator We are seeking an individual to design and implement multi-faceted campaign that will include public relations, media relations, public service advertising and grassroots outreach to farmers in the Maryland Chesapeake Bay watershed area. Collaboration with a coalition of farmers, environmentalists, consumers and government officials to maximize the effectiveness of the campaign; help conceptualize and produce materials needed to complement the campaign; contribute ideas and contacts to assist in ongoing fund-raising efforts; develop messages and "pitch" strategies for media placement, and identify existing promotional and educational materials that can be used in this campaign at low or no cost. Reqs: a minimum of 3 years experience working in media and public relations; basic knowledge of sustainable agriculture practices; minimum BA/BS degree, preferably in communications or agriculture-related field; excellent writing samples; successful track record in media placement; and experience working with community-based organizations. Send cover letter, resume and three writing samples to: Community Media, Inc.; c/o Vanguard Communications; 1019 19th Street NW; Suite 1200; Washington, DC 20036. Community Media is a equal opportunity employer. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 15:49:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03158 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA02562 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:44:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02536 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:43:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA29935 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA20530; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:44:58 -0800 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:45:06 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: Calif. Proposes Proposes Reduced-Risk Pesticide Registration Exemptions Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 ArialThis is a press release from the California Department of Pesticide Regulaton, concerning a proposal to exempt certain products (mostly food materials) from registration. The name of a contact person is at the end of the text. I have not included the list of products in the interest of not making this message *too* long. You'll find the press release, including the list, at < **************************************** Kathy Brunetti California Department of Pesticide Regulation ***************************************** ArialSACRAMENTO - Cal/EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation has proposed regulations that would exempt certain kinds of minimum-risk pesticides from registration requirements. DPR's registration process requires payment of fees and submission of specific studies before products can be advertised and sold for pest control in California. Among the substances proposed for exemption are many common household and food products that currently must be registered in California as pesticides when labeled and sold for pest-controlling purposes. They include substances such as garlic, peppermint, rosemary, corn oil, cedar chips, and castor oil. The proposed regulations were authorized by 1997 legislation (SB 445, Monteith). This bill allowed DPR to exempt certain chemicals from registration after the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency had done so. The major category of exempt chemicals are low-risk substances that have a wide range of other, nonpesticidal uses as foods, medicines, or household items. All are on U.S. EPA's exempt list and were evaluated by DPR scientific staff for potential hazards. The Department is proposing to divide 40 federally exempted, minimum-risk substances into two lists. The first includes several spices and herbs (such as cinnamon, cloves, garlic, mint, and rosemary), sodium chloride (common table salt), several oils (including corn oil, cottonseed oil, and linseed oil), and zinc metal strips. Because of their widespread and long-standing use, and the fact they pose minimum risk to users, products containing these 22 substances will be exempted without further restrictions. The 18 chemicals that DPR proposes to place on the second list have the potential to cause eye or skin irritation, although they also include many food or household substances, such as citric acid, clove oil, mint oil, white pepper, and corn gluten meal. Pesticide products that contain more than 8.5 percent of a chemical on this list must have label language requiring use of eyewear and gloves. For substances on both lists, the label will have to identify the name and percentage of each active ingredient and the name of each inert ingredient. Moreover, all ingredients in a formulation must qualify for exemption. Only inert ingredients that U.S. EPA has classified as minimum-risk would be allowed. Among these approximately 160 inerts are beeswax, dextrose, eggs, gelatin, honey, lanolin, milk, sawdust, and yeast. To qualify for exemption, products containing these 40 chemicals cannot make claims to control or mitigate microorganisms that pose a threat to human health, including but not limited to disease-transmitting bacteria or viruses. Claims that specify possible control for disease carried by insects or rodents would also be prohibited. In addition, the product must not include any false or misleading statements. Besides the low-risk compounds on the two lists, DPR also proposes to exempt from registration four other categories of substances: certain natural cedar products; pheromones labeled for use in traps or the pheromone traps themselves (as defined in the regulation); certain preservatives (including embalming fluids and products used to preserve laboratory animal specimens); and foods used as pest attractants that contain no chemical or biological toxicants. Products exempted from registration will remain under DPR oversight. The Department will require manufacturers to submit reports of any adverse effects from the use of the exempted products so that DPR can reassess exemptions if necessary. Copies of the proposed regulations are available on DPR's Web site <, or by calling Ann Prichard at (916) 324-3931. Comments may be submitted until 5:00 p.m. on May 12, 1999. E-mail comments may be sent to <. Address written comments to: Ann Prichard, Department of Pesticide Regulation, 830 K Street, Sacramento 95814. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 18:44:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07310 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA02021 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:52:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01897 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:52:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15016 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:51:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from p2 (ppp60-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.60]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA10350 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:50:59 +1100 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: N scavenging plants Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:01:14 +1100 Message-ID: <001e01be725c$63bde6a0$3c3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <19990317.195410.3542.2.eweigel@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 It may not suit all circumstances but I understand Paulownia trees are being used in some pig waste problem areas. The rate of growth is sufficient to allow return of grazing in three years; they are real climate moderators in my experience in hot summers, they lose leaf early; fallen leaf breaks down readily, timber value begins at 8 years and tress coppice with growth back to 5 metres or more in a summer possible after coppicing. Dennis Argall To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 19:24:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA08023 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA20262 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:20:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA20239 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.136]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA04929 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:17:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990319171910.006c136c@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:19:10 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: End of Steven Blank's nonesense Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA20246 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 In a posting called "Articles in The Futurist" we learn that Steven Blank, an extension economist from UC Davis (earning your tax dollars to help farmers!) informs that American agriculture is no longer profitable and so should be abanoned. Although one gets used to such neoconservative dreamy twaddle, from The Futurist, this one really takes the cake. I couldn't help but think of Dr. Blank when I read the following article today in the NY Times: March 19, 1999 >U.S. Trade Deficit Soars as Imports Increase Sharply WASHINGTON -- As American exports continued to fall, the United States trade deficit jumped to a monthly record of nearly $17 billion in January, fueled by a flood of imports from China that could stir further protectionist sentiments in Congress. Among the imports flowing into the United States, Chinese-made steel surged 65 percent from December. On Wednesday, the House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed a bill that would sharply limit steel imports, a movement that may gain momentum now that China is joining Japan, Brazil and Russia on the list of nations pouring inexpensive steel into the American market.... > It would seem that farming isn't the only business having trouble with foreign competition these days. I guess we better stop making steel too, right Dr. Blank? I suppose it would be foolish to propose an alternative: policies that favor our domestic economy rather than multinational capital flying around the world looking for the most downtrodden, cheap labor force. Where I think Dr. Blank blanks out is, not in saying that farming is a business and must make a profit--it has always been thus since the earliest times. Rather it is to purvey the logic that the only function of business is to maximize profit, even if it is at the expense of the welfare of our society. I know some organic farmers that aren't doing to badly as businesses--maybe its time to ask them to help reduce the US trade budget and bail out the steel industry. End of agriculture , huh? Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 19 21:03:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09151 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:03:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA27559 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:59:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA27494 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:58:59 -0500 (EST) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7ORPa05013 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:58:17 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <2ae190a8.36f2f2a9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:58:17 EST To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Question regarding petitions, old and new. Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 Dear friends - A long time ago, seems like, I signed on to petitions and protests regarding the proposed Fed Organic (Sub)Standards, the acceptance of GE and GM in any way, and other such matters worthy of protest. Does anyone know the results? Are there any petitions circulating now? Any specific person/group I can ask new converts to contact? Thanks in advance for any and all replies. Betty Ann Gras (gradually changing my name back to Ann, the name my husband gave me in preference to Betty which was the name my parents gave me, only my official name is actually Annette E., but what's in a name?) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 20 01:36:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA12605 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:36:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA22085 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:23:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from email.kdsi.net (IDENT:root@email.kdsi.net [206.103.112.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA22007 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 00:23:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from 208.136.226.110 ([208.136.226.178]) by email.kdsi.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA31705 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:23:38 -0600 Message-ID: <36F34727.3A41@kdsi.net> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:58:43 -0800 From: Jacklyn Smith Reply-To: jjerseys@kdsi.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Bumper sticker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 Can anyone tell me where I can purchase the bumper sticker "Don't treat your soil like dirt"? Thank you Jacklyn Smith jjerseys@kdsi.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 20 07:33:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA14920 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:33:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA28211 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:25:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA28201 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:25:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp226.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.226]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id HAA06962 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:28:47 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:28:12 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-18; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id GAA28208 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 [Reposted with permission] Thanks to Bradford Duplisea for posting the next two articles LA Times Staff Writer Sunday, March 14, 1999 (Full Page Feature Story) In the Land of Sushi, Lab Tomato Strikes Out Biotechnology: The Japanese government and companies face a major hurdle in winning public acceptance of genetically engineered foods. By SONNI EFRON, LA Times Staff Writer TOKYO--Pity the "transgenic" tomato. It has become a marketing disaster on both sides of the Pacific, and a cautionary tale for Japanese biotechnology. It began life in a California laboratory as a miracle product, a tomato bioengineered to be tasty but slow to spoil. It was the first gene-spliced food to win approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. And in 1994, when Kirin Brewery Co., Japan's top beer maker, acquired the Japanese rights to the Flavr-Savr tomato from Calgene Inc. of Davis, Calif., it seemed like a sure-fire winner. Kirin quickly won approval from Japan's Health and Welfare Ministry to market the tomato here, and set to work crossbreeding it with Japanese species to produce the pink color, particular taste and compact growth characteristics that consumers and farmers here prefer. But before the tomato got near the supermarket shelves, a Japanese consumer group that opposes genetically engineered food threatened to boycott every Kirin product--including its beer--if the company dared to put its brave new product on the market. Kirin pulled the offending vegetable. In a recent interview, company spokesmen politely avoided comment on the boycott threat, but said Kirin will not try to market its tomato--or any other genetically modified food--until and unless the Japanese public is prepared to accept it. "Until we resolve the taste, color and growth issues, we can't sell it," explained spokesman Hirotaka Ishikawa. "In addition, we need to have the public's understanding. Right now, people feel resistance even when they hear the words 'genetic engineering.' " But Kirin has by no means abandoned bioengineering. It is quietly continuing efforts to produce a genetically superior tomato--even though Calgene's Flavr-Savr has been a dud with U.S. shoppers. ... Now the government is mounting a public education campaign to persuade the Japanese public that gene-spliced foods also are unobjectionable. Powerful anti-GMO farm lobbies, along with consumer and environmental groups, are pitted against some of Japan's largest agribusinesses, which are developing such genetically modified products as rice, melons, tomatoes, strawberries and cucumbers and would like to bring them to market. A Lack of Incentive? Government officials are worried that unless the prevailing negative attitude toward GMOs can be changed, the biotech industry will have little incentive to pursue research and development and Japan will fall even further behind in the vital technology. "If private companies find that, like Kirin, they can develop a product and pass all the legally required safety checks but then can't sell it, we're in trouble," said Makoto Tabata, who works on promoting biotech research in the Innovative Technology Division of the agriculture ministry. "They will lose the motivation to invest." ........ PUBLICATION Agence France Presse English DATE Thu 18 Mar 1999 SECTION/CATEGORY International News BYLINE by Philip Pank Consumer power rears its head to drive GM food off supermarket shelves LONDON, March 18 (AFP) - Hostility to genetically engineered food reached a highpoint across Europe Wednesday when leading supermarket chains bowed to consumer pressure and decided to chase "Frankenstein food" from their shelves. In Britain, Sainsbury's and Marks and Spencer supermarkets announced that they would remove all genetically-modified (GM) ingredients from their own-brand range. The high street giants launched a Europe-wide consortium which also grouped the French hypermarket retailer Carrefour, Delhaize of Belgium, Migros in Switzerland, Effelunga in Italy and the Irish group Superquinn. The group pledged to eek out non-GM sources in farmers' fields and not to mix these with known GM crops. At present, genetically engineered produce is found in an estimated 60 percent of processed food. The British government is due to clarify its policy on GM crops soon, amid calls for a three-year moratorium on planting GM crops here. London has recently tempered its wholehearted support for the produce. Consumers in Britain and elsewhere have become alarmed at the potential health hazards of eating food that has been concocted using genes from other species. Environmentalists fear that crops implanted with herbicide-resistant genes will be sprayed with powerful chemicals that will decimate surrounding plant and animal life. They are also concerned that nature's ingenuity will create bionic bugs capable of withstanding the chemicals used on new super crops. "Our customers have indicated to us very clearly that they do not want genetically-modified ingredients in their food and we are taking steps to offer that guarantee," said a spokeswoman for Sainsbury's, Britain's second biggest supermarket chain. Britons are slowly waking to the benefits of eating healthy food. The change follows a string of food scares here, including the "madcow" panic sparked after the government admitted that consumers who ate infected beef could contract a fatal brain-wasting disease, a deadly outbreak of e-coli food poisoning and a spate of salmonella in eggs. Sainsbury's environmental manager Alison Austin said that "by establishing verified non-GM sources in the farmer's field and ensuring segregation through the supply chain we will be GM free. "We always wanted GM and standard crops to be separated and were extremely disappointed when this did not happen with the US soya crop." The supermarkets said that they would look towards Canada and Brazil for supplies of natural soya. Retailers complain that the giant US producers cannot guarantee that their shipments are free of genetic engineering, because they mix beans at source. Imports of soya beans from the United States into Europe has emerged as a political hot-potato amid a wider dispute between the two trading blocks over import policy. Three European countries, Italy, Austria and Luxembourg, have imposed unilateral bans on US soya imports, despite European Union clearance. ...... next article posted by Paul Davis UK Daily Mail 18 March 99 GM giant's milk hormone "is cancer risk" By SEAN POULTER Consumer Affairs Correspondent A HORMONE designed by "Frankenstein Food" giant Monsanto to make cows produce more milk could put the health of the animals and humans at risk. A damning report compiled by scientists for the European Commission reveals that the genectically-engineered drug BST is deeply flawed. The chemical, which is injected into the animal, is said to increase yields by 10-15 per cent, so increasing profits for farmers. But research suggests the milk may contain higher levels of a hormone which has been linked to increased incidence of certain cancers. The damning report is set to start an international trade war between Europe and the United States, where the drug is already in use. The U.S. government is demanding that a two-year moratorium on the use of BST in Europe must be lifted by the end of the year - opening up a lucrative new market for Monsanto. However the evidence of the study can only lead European governments, including Britain, to oppose any attempt to legalise BST. The push by Monsanto and the Clinton administration to bully Britain and the rest of Europe to take BST has echoes of the controversy involving genetically-modified crops. Monsanto effectively forced Europe to take its Roundup Ready GM soya by mixing it with natural crops shipped across the Atlantic. As many as 30 per cent of American cows are injected with BST and U.S. campaigners complain that most of the milk stream is adulterated because milk from different dairies is mixed before it reaches consumers. The EU investigation suggests the extra milk production promised by BST treatment puts enormous strain on animals which are already struggling to cope with creating unnatural amounts of milk. Specialist breeding techniques already mean cows are 20 per cent bigger than 20 years ago, while the yield has soared by 50 per cent. Cows have become no more than an udder and stomach on thin legs-producing 80 pints of milk a day, eight times more than any calf can drink. Professor Donald Broom, who carried out the EU study says the animals cannot tolerate the even greater strain produced by BST, with particular problems of udder infections, or mastitis. "There's too much mastitis, leg disorders, reproductive disorders and injection site problems - and this is not a medicine, this is a substance that doesn't have to be used, and we think it shouldn't be used," he said. His views will carry enormous weight for he is world renowned in the field. He is both Professor of Animal Welfare at Cambridge University and Chairman of the European Union's Scientific Veterinary Committee. His committee has concluded that claims by Monsanto that it is has carried out research proving the safety of BST - Bovine Somatotropin - are deeply flawed. Details were revealed on Channel 4 News last night, which has also seen parallel research on the potential impact on human health. This separate study will warn of a small but significant increase in the risk of cancer from BST milk. It suggests that a hormone - IGF-1 - is increased in milk by the use of BST This same hormone has been linked to some cancers. Monsanto's research found IGF-l was not increased by BST, but Professor Brown argues: "They got it wrong." ....... next article posted by Paul Davis >From the BBC March 18, 1999 Fines back up GM labeling rules Restaurants will be fined if they do not label GM food The UK Government is claiming to lead the way in Europe by bringing in tough new regulations to force all food-sellers to tell customers if items contain genetically-modified ingredients. Local authorities are being given powers to enforce a European Union directive requiring labelling of all products containing GM soya or maize. These will be backed up by 5,000 fines for those who fail to provide full information to consumers. In a written parliamentary answer, Food Safety Minister Jeff Rooker said: "The government is determined that consumers should be able to choose whether or not to eat genetically-modified foods. ........ Restaurants must declare any GM food The Daily Telegraph London March 18, 1999 RESTAURANTS and cafes will be forced to tell their customers about any genetically modified ingredients contained in their food under measures to be announced by the Government today. It is expected that declarations will have to be made on menus. Bakers and delicatessens will also have to comply with the new labelling controls, which will exceed current European Union requirements. At present EU labelling regulations lay down that all foods sold in shops and supermarkets must be clearly marked if they contain more than two per cent of GM ingredients. The move follows an announcement this week that Marks & Spencer is to ban all genetically modified food from its shelves. Sainsbury's said yesterday that it is to ban genetically modified ingredients from its own-brand foods and that it has joined a consortium to ensure supplies of non-GM ingredients in future. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 20 16:06:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20679 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:06:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09388 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:12:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09379 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:12:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01123 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:12:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by hudzik.ss-dean.msu.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:03:25 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "'sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: catfish Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:03:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 just to remind us all that gmo's include both animals and plants cheers, craig > {Improved Catfish. On Mar. 11, 1999, officials of the Thad Cochran > National Warmwater Aquaculture Center, Stoneville, MS, announced that a > genetically engineered catfish, designated USDA 103, could be certified > for release and available for distribution to catfish growers as early as > January 2000. USDA 103 is reported to grow about 25% faster than most > catfish strains, using feed more efficiently.}[Assoc Press] > craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 20 18:45:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22272 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:45:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA26400 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:58:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA26387 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11709 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:58:04 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199903202258.RAA11709@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: we're thinking about getting a pig... To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:58:04 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 Friends - we run a CSA here in SE Ohio, providing organic produce to 50-70 households. We're considering getting a few pigs so that we can supply our customers with pork. Does anybody have any tips on where to look or who to talk to re. the economics of such an endeavore? I need to know, for example, how much it costs to have a pig butchered, and how much I can expect to make selling the pork from one pig, and so on. Any pertinent info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 20 21:02:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23632 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:02:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA03683 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:26:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA03669 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:26:48 -0500 (EST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7ZPNa04981 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:26:09 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <8948c2bd.36f44ab1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 20:26:09 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: SUSTAINABLE agriculture Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 The recent posting about Dr. Blank's research reminded me of the comment from the sweet lady who was "managing" a little farmer's market. I had just told her that I was going to have to stop attending because I wasn't making any money. "But Dori, you have to understand that none of us are there to make money, we're there to have a nice time visiting with each other." Sorry. I'm doing sustainable agriculture, and if it ain't economically sustainable then I can't call it sustainable. I don't for a minute propose that it isn't a challenge to include economic sustainability. Sometimes it requires hard choices. But it absolutely must be included. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Mar 19 10:29:30 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26211 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:29:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07086 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:12:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hpamgaab.compuserve.com (ah-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.153]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07037 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:12:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.1) id JAA16584; Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:11:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:08:15 -0500 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: A Visit to the Heartland To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <199903190911_MC2-6E98-EEB9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 Living on the Earth, March 19, 1999: A Visit to the Heartland About sixty years ago, writer Louis Bromfield, fleeing the oncoming World War in Europe, returned to his native, dustbowl-ravaged Ohio, where he bought three eroded, worn-out farms. Greedy, desperate farmers had allowed their topsoil to be washed down to the Gulf of Mexico, destroying the fertility and water-holding capacity of ecosystems, as well as lives and communities. Bromfield believed that with proper care, using nature's soil-building methods, this land could be restored to prosperity. He used cover crops, pastures with grazing animals, careful crop rotations and trees to stop erosion and create fertile soil. The land was again able to build its soil and water resources as well as its biological diversity. Springs that hadn't run for years began flowing as his farmland held onto more rainwater. Bromfield described his work eloquently in Pleasant Valley and other books. His passionate writings are credited with inspiring the soil conservation movement in the 1940s and 50s. Thirty years ago, when I first lived in the country on an abandoned, 200-year-old Connecticut farm, I read Bromfield's Pleasant Valley. It inspired me and changed my life. I managed to buy a small piece of land and began to care for it- to study and learn from nature. Last weekend, I had the opportunity to visit our country's heartland and as a result, to realize just how important and timeless Bromfield's message is. The Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association (OEFFA) invited me to address its 20th Annual Conference. OEFFA is one of the many groups of farmers, gardeners and consumers around the country with similar missions. "To work to create and promote a healthful, ecological, accountable and sustainable system of agriculture," is OEFFA's goal. This conference offered a great opportunity to share information, successes, dreams and struggles with others involved in the work of creating a local, ecological food system on a human scale. Food is our most important connection to the Earth. Most of it comes directly or indirectly from the soil. The well-attended, all-day "Organic Soil Fertility Management and Improvement" workshop on the Friday before the official conference demonstrated this topic's importance. The message from seasoned farmers and a pioneering researcher stressed cover crops, the use of animals and plants in rotations, compost and trees. These methods are very similar to Bromfield's message, enhanced by modern research results. Later in the conference, a veteran farmer suggested that Pleasant Valley is still a valuable book for a beginning farmer to read. Other research shows that these organic soil building methods not only heal damaged ecosystems, they also help plants to resist pests and can eliminate the need for pesticides. Of course, whenever 600 thoughtful farmers and gardeners come together, there's bound to be talk of worrisome trends in this country's food and agriculture system. The rampant consolidation and vertical integration of the food system into the hands of a few dominant players results in lower farm prices and closed markets. Corporate giants' demands for low cost commodities to buy, sell, process or feed drive an increasingly disconnected, destructive, industrial-scale agriculture. Its voracious energy and pesticide use, large-scale animal confinement facilities, routine antibiotic feeding and the increasing lack of diversity and use of genetically-engineered seeds and animals worry many of those who actually tend the land. The threatening "Terminator Technology" which may allow corporations to sterilize future generations of seeds in order to achieve greater profits encouraged lots of talk of open-pollinated corn-- a creative defense against corporate biocide. Many of the people I met are using gardens, small farms, local processing and marketing to rebuild ravaged communities and soils in Appalachian hills and urban wastelands as well as on typical Ohio farms, and even on Bromfield's Malabar Farm, now a State Park. The deep pleasure of working with nature to build health, fertility and community, which makes Bromfield's book so inspiring, is shared by many OEFFA members. Tomorrow is the Spring Equinox and the beginning of another growing season. Peas, lettuces and other greens can be planted soon. This spring get your hands into the soil and begin to discover the great joys of working with nature to feed ourselves. This is Bill Duesing, Living on the Earth (C) 1999, Bill Duesing, Solar Farm Education, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 21 09:00:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28446 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA16071 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:22:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA16061 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA28241 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 07:22:07 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-07.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.39) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028191; Sun Mar 21 07:21:36 1999 Message-ID: <007c01be739d$84619540$27a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Japanese tomato? Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:19:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 This was included in a previous post, I was wondering if anyone knew the variety of this pink tomato. The un GM one of course. It could be interesting to grow. Beth >Kirin quickly won approval from Japan's Health and Welfare Ministry to >market the tomato here, and set to work crossbreeding it with Japanese >species to produce the pink color, particular taste and compact growth >characteristics that consumers and farmers here prefer. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 21 09:35:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28592 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07440 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:00:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07391 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25474 invoked from network); 21 Mar 1999 14:00:21 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-32.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.204) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 1999 14:00:21 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990321085222.00931e70@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:57:39 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: Japanese tomato? In-Reply-To: <007c01be739d$84619540$27a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 At 08:19 AM 3/21/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >This was included in a previous post, I was wondering if anyone knew the >variety of this pink tomato. The un GM one of course. It could be >interesting to grow. Beth > >>Kirin quickly won approval from Japan's Health and Welfare Ministry to >>market the tomato here, and set to work crossbreeding it with Japanese >>species to produce the pink color, particular taste and compact growth >>characteristics that consumers and farmers here prefer. My guess would be Odoriko. We grew it several years ago. Good tomato. Seed is available from Shepherd's Garden Seeds. Cass Peterson Flickerville Mountain Farm & Groundhog Ranch www.flickerville.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 21 13:27:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00814 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:27:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA17943 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:40:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA17906 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:40:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn09tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.138]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA10652 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:40:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:40:57 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903211740.LAA10652@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: A New Perspective of Agriculture Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 Hi, I thought some of you might be interested... Viewing Farming From a New Perspective What I would like to do today is to create a new frame work from which to review the way we farm. The new frame work, or paradigm, from which to view farming, is not meant to condemn a particular way of farming, or to set one type of farming above another. The paradigm we wish to put forth tonight is one that looks at the consequences of farming. The consequences of today's farming methods are very broad in scope. We must look at the environmental costs, the economic costs, and the social costs. We must consider the benefits too. Surely there are benefits to farming or so many people would not be involved with it. We will explore the sustainability of farming. Will we be able to continue to produce the way we are, without impinging on future generations to produce for themselves? So to begin I shall read a passage from the book 'The Unsettling of America', by Wendell Berry. It will give us two differing paradigms from which to view farming. "We as a society can be either exploiter or nurturers of our environment. The terms exploitation and nurture, describe a division not only between persons, but, also within persons. We are all to some extent the products of an exploitive society, and it would be foolish and self-defeating to pretend we do not bear its stamp. Let me outline as briefly as I can, what seems to me to be these opposite kinds of mind. I conceive a strip miner to be a model exploiter, and as a model nurturer I take the old fashioned idea, or ideal of a farmer. The exploiter is a specialist, and expert; the nurturer is not. The standard of the exploiter is efficiency; the standard of the nurturer is care. The exploiter's goal is money, profit; the nurturer's is health--his land's health, his own, his family's, his community's, his country's. Whereas the exploiter asks of a piece of land only how much and how quickly it can be made to produce; the nurturer asks a question that is much more complex and difficult: What is its carrying capacity? (That is: How much can be taken from it without diminishing it? What can it produce dependably for an indefinite time?) The exploiter wants to earn as much as possible by as little work as possible; the nurturer expects, certainly, to have a decent living from his work, but his characteristic wish is to work as well as possible. The competence of the exploiter is in organization; that of the nurturer in order. The exploiter typically serves a institution of organization; the nurturer serves land, household, community, place. The exploiter thinks in terms of numbers, quantity, "hard facts"; the nurturer in terms of character, condition, quality, kind." Wendell Berry Okay, so what does that mean? ... Externalized Costs One of the major problems with today's methods of farming is it is so exploitive in nature. We can see this demonstrated in the Externalized Costs of operation. By externalized costs, I mean the negative consequences, that are often hidden or difficult to initially detect. Examples include; all types of pollution, impacts to health, flooding and drainage problems, accumulation of animal waste, salinated soils, eroded soils, compacted and hardened soils, drained aquifers, rivers that no longer flow, and loss of ecological diversity. Many of these examples of externalized costs are the result of labor saving devices, technologies, chemicals or drugs. As an example, chemical pesticides do save labor, but they pollute aquifers, and they do cause health problems. However we have reduced our labor need, and that means fewer farmers. We have also set up a condition where-by the farmer has just lost a portion of control of his operation. When he started using chemicals, he bought into the addiction to cheap food ideals, and put in place a broker for part of his livelihood. IMO you won't get any richer producing at the highest capacity, because you will also have the highest overhead. Any excess capital from producing at high capacity goes to pay for the increased overhead. It is like a safety line lent out to farmers, that he becomes entangled in and is slowly strangled. It also acts as a mechanism for someone else to make profit off his work. He has also traded pollution and health costs for labor, but never pay the costs of chemical use. In our present system no cost is accessed for the externalities. They are not paid for by those profiting in the farming industry, but by you and me and all future generations. The way the system is working right now these costs are being born by the environment and in turn, by the public, to whom these shared resources belong. All the pollution and negative consequences of the operation, need to have a price tag attached to them, and recorded on the ledger sheet. That is because these costs are real, and do not just go away. They become liabilities that some one will end up dealing with. Somehow, these costs need to be billed to the transgressor, and only then, will we have True Cost Accounting of the unseen costs of production. We need true cost accounting to avoid the terrible consequences that will eventually beleaguer and our children. Former Senator Gaylord Nelson said it this way, "The economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. All economic activity is dependent upon that environment with it's underlying resource base. When the environment is finally forced to file under Chapter 11 because it's resource base has been polluted, degraded, dissipated, irretrievably compromised, then, the economy goes down into bankruptcy with it because the economy is just a subset within the ecological system." Professor Donella Meadows said it like this, "Someday we will all come to learn that the environment is not an intermittent news story, not a special event, not a win-lose sports event, not a luxury, not a fad, not a movement, not discredited, not faltering, and not something to pay token attention to one day a year. It is a beat far more important than Wall Street or Washington. It's laws are stronger than Newt's, it's moves are more important than the Federal Reserve's, it's impact overwhelms that of the stock market or the next election. The environment is not one player on the field; it is the field. It holds up, or fails to hold up, the whole economy and all of life, whether the spot light is on it or not". Economics Another problem with farming is in the economics of the situation. The hardest working people I know are farmers. It's been said that if you need an employee who will work hard and give you 110%, hire a farmer. They know the meaning of work and should stand to profit by their hard work. But this is too often not the case. Let's look at what is happening to the farmer. Is he the one prospering from modern agriculture? Most often not. He's caught in the pinch between high production costs and low commodity prices. Take the recent calamity hitting hog farmers. What a disaster this! dollars received per hundred weight + cost of production + financial obligations + vertical integration + over production = loss of family farms Someone's making money during these times of depressed hog prices. Not the farmer certainly. Not our neighbor down the road. But someone is. Who? Who stands to profit from these depressed hog prices? And why are they so low? The price of pork in the grocery store hasn't dropped like the price of pigs has. Why is that? WHO IS PROFITING? The answer is large scale corporate agriculture. The same ones with 100,000 unit, sow operations in unfortunate states like North Carolina and Iowa. In Utah, a consortium of firms led by Smithfield Foods of Virginia is planning a massive factory designed to produce 2.5 million hogs per year! It will produce as much sewage as the city of Los Angeles. Proponents say this scale of production lessens costs, thereby making large operations more efficient. But as we saw in North Carolina, the costs weren't reduced, they were externalized. Externalized costs are those which are not paid for by the producer but shunted on to the public, in hope that no one will notice. These are costs for things like clean up of sewage lagoon ruptures, contaminated streams and rivers, poisoned aquifers, pfiesteria (the cell from hell) epidemics, reduced antibiotic usefulness, air pollution, and decreased property values for anyone unfortunate enough to live down wind from these pigs. These corporate hog factories (not farms) use public dollars to subsidize their bloated growth. (see Time Magazine's recent series on corporate welfare) But there is another reason pig farmers are going out of business. It's called 'vertical integration'. That means that the same corporate giants producing mega hogs and mega pollution also own the processing plants and distribution chains. As the big processing plants were bought out by the corporate pigs, many were also closed down. Enough were closed that there are no longer enough processing plants to handle the supply of hogs. We now have a glut of hogs and no place to process them. The corporate giants are able to sell at the depressed price of $13 per hundredweight, because they don't need to make money at that point of production. They can still make their money on the processing and marketing!!! And as it turns out many of these corporate giants were able to get 30 to 50 dollars per hundredweight for their hogs because they had contracts with the packers for their hogs. These contracts were not available to the family farmer because they weren't big enough. This is just the type of discrimination that was supposed to be illegal under the 'Packers an Stockyards Act (PSA). Unfortunately the current Secretary of Agriculture, Dan Glickman, chose not to enforce it. Why is that? If you look into President Clinton's campaign donations, I think you find good reason for Mr. Glickman ignoring the plight of the family hog producer and enacting the PSA. A note on the bright side, both Senators Kohl and Feingold have asked for investigations into this matter. I see giant, corporate agriculture as the most real threat to our environment and the family farm. They refuse to be responsible for their actions, and only responsible for profit. Peter Montague of the AFL-CIO writers union explains corporate reasoning like this: " For the most part, corporations are staffed by intelligent, well-meaning people. But the personal motivations of those individuals are not what motivate the corporation. A large publicly-traded corporation is driven by its own internal logic. ** A corporation has an internal drive that is comparable to a human's "will to live." Once a corporation is publicly traded, it: ** Must return a profit to investors; ** Must grow; ** Must externalize costs to the extent feasible. These are essential characteristics of the corporate form. If a corporation fails to provide a decent return for investors, those investors can (and do) sue for breach of fiduciary trust. This requirement --to turn a profit --narrowly limits what corporations can do. In general, what is unprofitable cannot be pursued. This means that individuals must sometimes put aside their consciences when they make decisions for a corporation. The most well-meaning people in the world are not free to act on their personal philosophies when they are acting on behalf of a publicly-held corporation. They must do what is profitable, which is not necessarily what is right." Peter Montague >From Mr. Montague's dialogue it becomes obvious that giant scale corporate agriculture is not interested in seeing the family farmers do well, but actually engaged in devising it's end. There will be less competition that way, and then higher profits will be ensured. So again, is the family farmer prospering from the set up of our agricultural system? If he isn't, who is?... Americans pay less for their food than any other country, about 11% of his annual income. So the consumer is benefiting. But who else? Why is food so cheap here? The US has long had a 'cheap food' policy, and I suppose this should be the expected result. But what makes our food so cheap? Why is it that food is so cheap and so many farmers are going out of business? Former Secretary of Agriculture, Earl Butz wrote the family farmers epitaph when he said, "Get big, or get out." Earl Butz is also the one credited with proposing the idea of using food as a weapon. Indeed food can be used as a weapon. It can be use to bring nations to their knees. But should we turn this weapon on our own family farmers? The federal government then went about creating a series of incentives, subsidies and policies to do just that. If you study these policies, you will find they do just as Mr. Butz promised, they reward getting big, externalizing costs, and practicing an eploitative type of agriculture. If a farmer wasn't willing to get big, he was going to get driven out. With true freedom comes responsibility! Our nation operates under a Free Market, capitalist framework. Free Market capitalism guarantee us many rights...but with those rights come equally important responsibilities. George Bernard Shaw said, " Liberty means responsibility, that is why most men dread it." Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said, Free market says if you want to bring a product to market you pay dividends, and that includes cleaning up after yourself. And that is responsibility number 1) clean up after yourself. Another would be to not impinge on the rights of others. A third, is treating the natural capital of the land as an asset to be counted on ledger sheet. Until that is done, capitalism is built on a lie. And now the dairy farmer is under the siege, suffering from a near 40% drop in milk prices he receives for his milk. I hope he is able to weather the storm better than some of the family pork producers recently pushed out of business. But if he is forced off his farm here in Wisconsin, again some will benefit and some will not. It is obvious the family dairy farmer will not benefit, but some do. I do for one. and I'd like to explain why. To do this we need to take a step back from agriculture and examine our economy as a whole. The Dow Jones hit the 10,000 mark the other day. An all time high! The stock market just keeps climbing and climbing, at least here in America. Thank God we aren't in some of those third world countries like Japan and the rest of Asia! So, what is causing this record growth in the financial markets? Much of it is happening as a result of corporate downsizing, mergers, and flight to cheap labor markets. This erodes steadily at our job base. Lose of living wage paying jobs is at an all time high. In return we get low-wage jobs and cheap prices of goods. My point here is part of the Dow-Jones high is fueled by liquidation of jobs and place. This can go on only so long before some other fuel feeds the fire of the sock market. That other fuel is the liquidation of Natural Capital. Natural Capital is the pre-existing, God given resources. Examples include; oil, minerals, soils, water, trees, wetlands, and the land itself. Unpolluted, undiminished resources, should be recognized as having a higher natural capital value. Let's bring it back to land. The farmer who is forced off his land is usually able to still turn one final profit in the sale of his land. Around here a good percentage of those sales of land go into feeding the development engine. It's been estimated that 50% of our economy is being fueled by the development and urban sprawl. As the real production of our economy is downsized and shipped overseas, something has to pick up the slack and that is the liquidation of our land and natural resources through development. Development is a powerful economic engine, employing a whole host of people from manufacturers to carpenters. I know, I profit from development. I've been a builder since I got out of highschool, and still do construction part-time....to pay for one of my habits...Farming. My point here is that by forcing the family farmer off his land, then liquidating it by building upon it, we enable one of the last means to keep our economy growing. This liquidation of the natural capital is also one of the last means by which the lower-class can raise themselves up to the middle-class. So in closing I think it is necessary to step back and rethink what farming is all about. We must have a greater goal than maximum production and profit, and that goal is the common good. We must protect our soil and farm resources, because they are the production base of our economy, and our life support system. We need to look upstream, far enough to recognize hidden costs. Then we will be able to control, in a positive manner, the out come of our actions. Only then... only then, will free-market capitalism become accountable for their responsibilities, and become sustainable. Greg David Prairie Dock Farm (920) 261-4292 You can't escape the responsibility of tomorrow, by evading it today. Abe Lincoln To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 21 21:03:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06074 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:03:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA13236 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:13:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA13187 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:13:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from piper.hamline.edu (slip129-37-114-120.mn.us.ibm.net [129.37.114.120]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA25400; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 01:13:06 GMT Message-ID: <36F59617.7B55@tmn.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:00:07 -0600 From: tom abeles Reply-To: tabeles@tmn.com Organization: sagacity X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Nigh CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: End of Steven Blank's nonesense References: <3.0.1.32.19990319171910.006c136c@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 There have been several cutting posts regarding Steven Blank's article in the recent issue of "The Futuist". None has contributed a single counterpoint, any rational respnse or constructive alternatives. Blank represents a real position within the larger agricultural community. Yet no peer from The Academy or government has come forward with anything to counter. And the alternative agricultural community, including think tanks have been stragely silent. Sometimes silence serves as a reasoned respnse. Not in this case and not on this list devoted to a partisan vision of agriculture which might be considered antithetical to the positon postulated by Blank thoughts? tom abeles To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 21 22:23:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07138 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:23:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA27288 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:26:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (vesuvius.gr8brdg.net [209.96.136.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA27159 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:26:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from greatbridge.net (cox139ppp237.gr8brdg.net [209.96.139.237]) by vesuvius.gr8brdg.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19880; Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:25:51 -0500 Message-ID: <36F5AADB.EFCB97C0@greatbridge.net> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:28:44 -0500 From: Ben and Sasha Goldberg Reply-To: goldberg@greatbridge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tabeles@tmn.com CC: Ronald Nigh , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: End of Steven Blank's nonesense References: <3.0.1.32.19990319171910.006c136c@mail.internet.com.mx> <36F59617.7B55@tmn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 tom abeles wrote: > There have been several cutting posts regarding Steven Blank's article > in the recent issue of "The Futuist". None has contributed a single > counterpoint My immediate thought upon reading Mr. Blank's idea was "we had better maintain a large standing army". Whether one is a proponent of sustainable agriculture or of the system we have now is irrelevant. To be largely dependent on crops grown outside of our borders is to court disaster; remember the oil crisis? Further, his reasoning assumes that there will always be a large pool of underpaid workers. What happens if and when that is no longer the case? It also assumes that petroleum products (or some reasonable facsimile) will always be available in sufficient quantity to allow the shipping of goods. But what if they aren't? This individual is talking about placing total or near total control of our food supply in other people's hands. That's really scary to me. If we don't have enough clothing, we can patch. If we don't have enough gas, there are ways to cut back. But if we don't have enough food, or if the price of that food is beyond what most people can afford, we starve to death .We cannot just dismiss our food as another commodity and farming as another business. Sasha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 10:01:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13838 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:01:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA15195 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:50:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA15188 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:50:44 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7NEPa03692 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:50:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:50:10 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Porter's Pinks Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 206 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 In a message dated 3/21/99 5:12:41 PM Central Standard Time, owner-sanet-mg- digest@ces.ncsu.edu writes: ...."....Japanese species to produce the pink color, particular taste and compact growth characteristics that consumers and farmers here prefer." Well, if that don't beat all. Back before they come up with Heat Wave, Hell Beater and Sun Defier, tomato varieties, we used to grow Porter tomatoes down here in the Heat Belt. Problem with those Porters was that they were pink. And they were semi-determinate. But you couldn't sell them, because tomatoes are supposed to be fire-engine red, not pink. I guess they should have just got stuffed in an air-can and flown to Tokyo instead. Steve Sprinkel Laredo, Texas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 10:01:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13843 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:01:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA12039 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:36:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA12023 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:36:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A25741@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 8:36:46 -0500 Received: from sareace4.griffin.peachnet.edu (sareace4.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.64]) by gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA06496 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:36:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903221336.IAA06496@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu> From: "John C. Mayne" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 08:37:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: NEW Grad Student Awards Reply-to: jmayne@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 The Southern Region Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education (SARE) Program announces the GRADUATE STUDENT AWARD IN SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE The Southern SARE Program on Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education is requesting proposals for Graduate Student research projects that address issues of sustainable agriculture of current and potential importance to the Southern Region and the nation. The maximum limits for Southern SARE Graduate Student Awards in Sustainable Agriculture are $10,000 and no more than three years duration. A candidate may receive only one Southern SARE Graduate Student Award during her or his graduate student career. The Southern SARE program will only consider proposals submitted, and to be conducted, by graduate students (masters and Ph.D.) enrolled at an accredited college or university in the Southern Region. The deadline for proposals to be received in the Southern Region SARE office is December 8, 1999. Full information can be found in the Call for Proposals. The Southern Region is comprised of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands. To have a Southern SARE Graduate Student Award in Sustainable Agriculture Call for Proposals sent to you please call: (770) 412-4787. The Southern Region SARE Graduate Student Award in Sustainable Agriculture Call for Proposals can also be downloaded from the web at: http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare If you have any questions about the Southern SARE Graduate Student Award in Sustainable Agriculture please contact: John C. Mayne, Ph.D. Southern SARE Program 1109 Experiment Street Griffin, GA 30223 PH: (770) 229-3350 FX: (770) 412-4789 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 10:38:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14582 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:38:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00672 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:18:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00593 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05370 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:18:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA09230; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:18:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F651EF.B69B58C5@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:21:36 -0500 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Smyth , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: 17 year locusts References: <199903182332.SAA25185@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 Actually, the 17 year locust appears each year, just that every 17 years, a bumper crop appears. Cicadas mainly like oak trees (especially Quercus alba, the white oak). I thought that 1995 or 96 was the 17th year. (There is also a three year locust, and several other species, I think.) The main effect of the cicada is tip dieback in oak trees. They seem to like the fresh tips of oak branches. I don't think you have to worry about the veggies. In the summer of 1996, while moving from PA to NC to finish graduate work, _all_ of the oak trees on highway 15 through Virginia had dead tips. It was quite a sight. When I reached NC State, I asked a forest pathologist here, who said it was the 17 year locust. Kevin Smyth wrote: > Friends - This is the year for the 17 year locusts (I heard they were > actually cicadas), and I am wondering what effect they might have on our > vegetable crops here in SE Ohio. We grow 2.5 acres organic vegetables for > a CSA here. Anybody know? > Kevin Smyth > ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Student Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 11:13:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA15392 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:13:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00802 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:08:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00722 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:08:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp190.epix.net [209.74.60.190]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.0/1998093001/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id KAA28521 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:08:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F65D7F.C1E4008@epix.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:10:55 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: Soil Quality Research Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 Sanet, I have just put some of the soil quality research data from our farm on my website. Those who are interested in the long term effect of sustainable soil management can click on over to: http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Then go to "Research at CMF". Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 11:17:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA15515 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:17:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25905 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:02:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25901 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06450 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:01:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp190.epix.net [209.74.60.190]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.0/1998093001/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id KAA27638; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:01:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F65BE2.672713D9@epix.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:04:03 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Russ Bulluck CC: Kevin Smyth , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: 17 year locusts References: <199903182332.SAA25185@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> <36F651EF.B69B58C5@unity.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 I see some locusts every year, but every so often they really make a grand appearance. I remember a dozen or so years ago the locusts were so loud you could hear them a quarter of a mile from the woods! I don't remember they did much damage though. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 11:18:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA15550 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:18:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04300 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:13:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04270 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:13:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06628 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:13:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (root@rac7.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.147]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id KAA10889; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:13:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id KAA08301; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:13:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id KAA08297; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:13:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rac7.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:13:40 -0500 (EST) From: joel b gruver To: Sustainable Ag cc: Kevin Smyth Subject: Re: 17 year locusts In-Reply-To: <36F65BE2.672713D9@epix.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Hello to all... My dad took some interesting photographs of cicadas laying eggs in blueberry stems during one of the peak cicada years... the damage to the blueberry bushes was fairly severe... Joel To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 11:24:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA15728 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:24:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07875 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:22:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dub-img-11.compuserve.com (dub-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.206.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07854 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id KAA02586 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:22:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:21:41 -0500 From: Jenny Warden Subject: Slaughterhouse Feassibility? To: SANET digest Message-ID: <199903221021_MC2-6EED-6D91@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA07859 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 Does anyone know if a feasibility study has been conducted for a slaughterhouse facility either in the DC or NY markets? (apologies to vegans). I've got the SARE projects - but have there been other? Many thanks, Jenny Warden To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 12:42:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17721 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:42:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA23612 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:37:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA23504 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08301 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:37:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA13305 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:37:06 -0600 Message-Id: <199903221637.KAA13305@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:36:58 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Farm women in Europe X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 Howdy, all-- Greet Overbeek passed this along from the Netherlands. Thanks! I thought it might interest some of you. Fwd'd with permission. peace misha ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Divergent labour strategies of farm women in rural areas of Europe > A study carried out by research institutes in Greece > (Agricultural University of Athens), Italy (CRES), the Netherlands > (LEI-DLO) and Norway (Centre for Rural Research), co-ordinated by > LEI-DLO analysed the labour situation of farm women in less and > more diversified rural areas in Europe. The study was co-funded by > the Directorate General VI of the European Commission... > You can find the press release at > http://www.lei.dlo.nl/News/1594.html (without frames) or visit our > site at: > http://www.lei.dlo.nl and use the provided link. > You can find the zipped Html version of the executive summary > at http://www.lei.dlo.nl/download/news1594.zip or read the press > release and download from there. > Greet Overbeek > LEI-DLO > P.O.Box 29703 > 2502 LS The Hague > The Netherlands > tel: +31.70.3308100/070-3308100 > fax:+31.70.3615624/070-3615624 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the towers of steel, belief goes on and on in this heartland, in this heartland soil. --U2 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 12:54:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17942 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:54:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA07942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:02:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (root@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.253.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07928 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:01:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from eatwell.com (dcn251-15.dcn.davis.ca.us [168.150.251.15]) by wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (8.8.7/DCN8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12235 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 09:01:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F68D49.F29445A3@eatwell.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:34:49 -0800 From: Nigel Walker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sus Ag Network Subject: Gopher Control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 Dear Gopher lovers, Last year our neighbors barn burned down and with it the home of the local owl. We had previuously had very few problems with our friends the gophers but all has changed over the last 6 months. Can anyone give me the lead on which is the most effective control method. I have heard of some one making a device to inject oxygen and propane into the run and igniting it with a spark plug? So what is more humane..traps, poisons, gas? We will be putting out some owl boxes this spring for long term protection. Regards...Nigel Walker http://www.eatwell.com organic@eatwell.com 530 759 8221 Eatwell Farm Winters California 95694 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 12:57:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18021 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:57:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26324 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:42:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26299 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:42:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from cisa- (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA13316 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:45:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990322114525.00796460@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:45:25 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: The return of prison labor (a long musing followed by a few short articles) In-Reply-To: <199903122218.RAA20682@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA26304 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 Never go away for a few days and try to read a dozen sanet digests in one sitting... After being away for a few days and reading all the threads on prison labor I wish to respond to a few points. First is the notion that we can spend -- or not spend -- our way out of an untenable economic system. This is something that has been nagging at me since I started working in sustainable ag last year. A lot of people put a lot of effort into their consumer choices, and that is certainly important. We all make choices about how to spend our money, what sorts of ag we support and so on. On a small, local scale that can make a difference. Sometimes even boycotts work. But don't think for a minute that these choices will change the underlying economic system. All the agonizing decisions made about which products to "support" (notice how we have created a euphemism which changes the basic transaction of buying a product into something more than it often is) do not change the fact that someone was paid less to make it than the product sold for, and someone else is keeping the profit. That's capitalism. Corporations using prison labor are no more or less "bad" than the local food coop -- they just have lower labor costs (although some at our coop may quibble over that statement)! Unless you buy everything from independent artisans and farmers who do all the work themselves, you are "buying in" to the exploitation of others. And even if you do, they have to get their supplies from someone, and you can bet there's a worker down the line who made something these people are using. Digging into the sordid past of our consumables makes for some tough bedtime reading. The unsavory conditions -- for labor and the environment -- that our products are created in can be hard face. I have seen some acquaintances take this realization so badly that they have taken extreme measures to try to extract themselves from the system: never riding in a car again because the were against the Gulf Oil War; not washing because they don't want to harm microorganisms (seriously!); yelling at a bakery clerk in the local coop about the fact that they are renovating the floor and throwing away perfectly good construction waste (this really happened)! The problem with such extremism is that it leads to wacky contradictions -- like my old upstairs neighbor who didn't want to use his refrigerator because he was against nuclear power but somehow felt fine about storing his ice cream in my freezer! Or the friends who don't own a TV but sent their kids to our house to watch videos. But back to exploitation (which Marx defined simply as the act of an owner keeping the surplus value generated by a worker's efforts). Exploitation is the foundation of all economic activity, including farming. But people need jobs and people need money. And prisoners are no different. They are going to have to earn a wage once released. And even if they never work in ag again, they may have learned new skills or ideas that will serve them in other ways. And now on to profit. Profit should NOT be a dirty word to farmers. In fact, the state of farming -- organic or otherwise -- would be better off if farmers spent more time thinking about profitability. Sustainability is about more than the environment -- farms need to also sustain farm families -- emotionally, socially and economically or we won't have any more farms! Someone posted this quote: " The free market system is very efficient in establishing prices, but is completely incapable in establishing costs." I would state that it is the producer who is responsible for understanding her costs, and if she can't make a living because her costs outweigh the price, she needs to figure out why. A whole farm planner told a story at a conference about a farmer in Kansas who went through the process of farm planning and learned that for 40 years his wheat crop had been losing money. She asked him if he would continue to grow wheat. His reply? "I guess so -- this is the wheat state, isn't it?" Now there are plenty of external factors which keep farmers from earning a decent wage, but don't you think it is important for farmers to at least make the decisions they can to affect their own bottom lines? I met an organic farmer in VT at this same conference. He studies the profitability of each crop he grows and if it does not make him enough money, he never grows it again. And he is a happy, successful farmer who can spend more time with his children and less time on vegetables that don't pay their way. Finally, here are two articles about another project which uses inmates in ag which I wrote for our newsletter. Mark Lattanzi ============================================================================ ============================== Profile: The Garden of Miracles/Jardn de Milagros Bridging the rural-urban divide is not easy, but one place where that row is being hoed is the Garden of Miracles in Springfield, MA. The Garden of Miracles is a collaboration between the Hampden County Sheriff's Department, NOFA and now CISA. Its a community gardening project with a twist: the organic gardens are built and maintained by public housing residents and minimum security pre-release inmates from the Hampden County House of Correction. Betsy Corner is the projects coordinator. We want to bring together country and urban residents as well as community and prison residents. says Betsy. The goals of the project are to teach work skills to inmates, beautify public housing and grow fresh, organic food for project residents. The Springfield Housing Authority gave permission to start a garden at its Riverview elderly housing complex last year and pitched in by removing old concrete from an abandoned playground. Then Betsy and her crew began the difficult process of enriching the compacted, gritty urban soil with compost and loam. The Hampden County Correctional Center crew does the bulk of the work. Minimum security inmates scheduled for release volunteer for places on the work crews, which offer interesting outdoor work, a chance to learn new skills and time off their sentence. They are supervised by a corrections officer who helps with Spanish translation and works with the crew. Betsy says that both work crew members and residents get excited about the gardening, and some have worked in agriculture in the past. Many lessons are learned throughout the growing season, but one predominant theme emerges. Most of the inmates did not succeed in school. Gardening lessons dont necessarily work. This is a process of doing and learning at the same time, not learning then doing, says Betsy. You have to let the inmates and residents try out their ideas to see if they will work. Betsy recalls how Narciso, an 86 year old Latino housing project resident, insisted on putting in raised beds like he used to do in Puerto Rico. Betsy was certain that the sandy beds would dry out too fast. And they did, especially during last summers drought. This year, she says, Narciso insists on flat beds for the garden! The garden also changes the way inmates and residents relate to each other. It is important to feel appreciated, to grow food for someone who is grateful and happy to receive it. says Betsy. Inmates are not used to feeling appreciated for what they do. This project helps reacquaint them with the community. In the end, though, what people remember about a vegetable garden is what it produces. While last years harvest was affected by the drought keeping urban gardens well watered is difficult the excitement of the residents and inmates was high. Calabaza (a tropical squash), cilantro, tomatoes, and much more were eagerly consumed by all. Betsy is currently seeking funding for the project with the help of CISA and Hampshire College. We encourage you to help out in any way you can. Deliveries of compost or manure will be gratefully accepted. Contact Betsy at (413) 624-8858. Using Pre-Release Inmates on Your Farm Jim Pitts , CISA board member and owner of Delta Organic Farm in Amherst, participated in a program that places minimum security, pre-release inmates from the Hampden County Correction Center on a local farm for a day of work. Inmates bring their own tools and lunches, and work a 6-hour day on the farm. Theres always something that needs doing on the farm, said Jim. It was great to have them come out, especially at critical times putting straw on strawberries, planting potatoes, trellising tomatoes. Betsy Corner stresses that the inmates are most productive when they see the farmer working alongside them and when they feel appreciated, especially with food. We became good friends, said Jim. We always had a treat at the end of the day they loved Pennys cookies and sang songs and told stories. It was a great social event plus we got a lot of work done. For more information about working with inmates on your farm, contact Betsy Corner at (413)624-8858 or Toni Atmore at the Hampden County Correction Center, (413)547-8000 x 2180. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 13:05:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18189 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:05:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA06263 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:58:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from axil.wave.co.nz (Axil.wave.co.nz [202.49.46.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA06240 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:58:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from hp-auth-user (p52.hn1.wave.co.nz [203.96.192.52]) by axil.wave.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA04451 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:58:39 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990323045726.006c4930@pop3.wave.co.nz> X-Sender: clements@pop3.wave.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:57:26 +1200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ashley Clements Subject: Updated Website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 Hi all, For those interested I have updated my website. The new article I have written is "Calculating Feed Requirements on Pasture" There is also some interesting new links including a site to the great New Zealand All Black rugby team. Best Regards, Ash ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit a New Zealand pasture based farm http://www.clements.co.nz/ KENMOR SHEEP EARTAGS , Apex Water Valves, Hansen Fittings,NZ Woolen Socks, Peach Teat Nipples and Feeders Ash & Charlene Clements 168/1 Robson Road R D 10 Hamilton NEW ZEALAND Ph/fax: 64 (7) 829 8274 email: clements@wave.co.nz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 13:05:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18197 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:05:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA15970 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:12:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15955 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:12:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08954 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:12:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA14928 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:11:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199903221711.LAA14928@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:11:49 -0500 Subject: Seeking Patricia Ann Julien X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 Howdy, all-- Sorry to post this to the group, but Patricia Ann Julien e-mailed me for some information and the e-mail address in her header was not correct, so my response bounced. Patricia was writing to me about the Warren Porter/James Jaeger/Ian Carlson research on pesticide mixtures. If anyone has an e-mail address for her, would you please pass this info along? Thanks. peace mish <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pressure? Pressure was when I was a shoeshine boy trying to make it to America. --Sammy Sosa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 14:35:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20156 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:35:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28949 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:25:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28922 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:25:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from [198.5.254.208] (br-ppp02.hevanet.com [198.5.254.208]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20019; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:25:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903221825.KAA20019@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:28:18 -0800 Subject: Re: Gopher Control From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Nigel Walker CC: Sus Ag Network Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 Must be gopher time - this topic just came up on the Organic Gardening list. Or was it Square Foot gardening? Personal favorite method: Get a large weed wand (also sold for melting ice) that attaches to a 5 gallon propoane tank. Buy sugar sulfur from an Ag supply house. It comes as small chunks or flakes, not powder. Open the gopher tunnel (dig around near a fresh mound) and put a large handful of sulfur in the opening. Play the propane wand on it to direct burning sulfur fumes into the tunnel. In 5-10 minutes you will probably notice yellow smoke puff up some distance (20 feet or so) away as the fumes reach the end of the tunnel. Continue another 5 minutes to be sure the tunnel is full all the way. You're done, and so is the gopher. The sulfur in the tunnel oxidizes and does no further harm. Keep this up any time you see a fresh mound and you can clear several acres a year, subject to re-infestation from the surrounding untreated areas. -Lon Rombough ---------- >From: Nigel Walker >To: Sus Ag Network >Subject: Gopher Control >Date: Mon, Mar 22, 1999, 10:34 AM > >Dear Gopher lovers, > Last year our neighbors barn burned down and with it the home of the >local owl. We had previuously had very few problems with our friends the >gophers but all has changed over the last 6 months. > Can anyone give me the lead on which is the most effective control >method. > I have heard of some one making a device to inject oxygen and >propane into the run and igniting it with a spark plug? > So what is more humane..traps, poisons, gas? > We will be putting out some owl boxes this spring for long term >protection. > >Regards...Nigel Walker > >http://www.eatwell.com >organic@eatwell.com >530 759 8221 >Eatwell Farm > Winters California 95694 > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 14:38:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20224 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:38:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA29981 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:27:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29952 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:27:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from sprintmail.com (1Cust151.tnt4.chattanooga.tn.da.uu.net [208.253.100.151]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29245; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 10:27:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F68BA7.308FB95@sprintmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:27:51 -0500 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nigel Walker CC: Sus Ag Network Subject: Re: Gopher Control References: <36F68D49.F29445A3@eatwell.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 Nigel, Using Oxygen and propane mixed and igniting it was a method described in a "Growing for Market" article some years ago (4 or 5). It was in a profile of a market farmer. He explained that propane is heavier than air and will go down the tunnels. I wondered if he used too much gas would he harvest his carrots at the same time. Please do not use poisons! Sick and/or thirsty gophers will come to the surface where raptors and owls will snatch them as easy prey. They'll feed them to their youngsters and eat them. Secondary poisoning is one of the main killers of these birds these days. If you think you have gopher problems now, wait till all the predators are dead. Alex Nigel Walker wrote: > Dear Gopher lovers, > Last year our neighbors barn burned down and with it the home of the > local owl. We had previuously had very few problems with our friends the > gophers but all has changed over the last 6 months. > Can anyone give me the lead on which is the most effective control > method. > I have heard of some one making a device to inject oxygen and > propane into the run and igniting it with a spark plug? > So what is more humane..traps, poisons, gas? > We will be putting out some owl boxes this spring for long term > protection. > > Regards...Nigel Walker > > http://www.eatwell.com > organic@eatwell.com > 530 759 8221 > Eatwell Farm > Winters California 95694 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 16:23:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA22860 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:23:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA29425 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:06:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA29378 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:06:17 -0500 (EST) From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Received: from earthlink.net (ip145.laurel.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.235.145]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11808; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:06:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F6A2A9.218F7157@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:06:05 -0500 Reply-To: gardenbetty@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Organic Gardening List , Sustainable Ag List Subject: Endocytosis query Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 It seems there is no consensus in my neck of the woods whether plants absorb nutrients via cation exchange (adsorption) or endocytosis. To my mind, Mother Nature always has more than one way to keep things running smoothly, and *both* seems like the most sensible answer. However, I am no soil scientist. Furthermore, there's a lot about the soilfoodweb we just don't know and may never fully understand. So, I would be eternally grateful if someone (Joel G.? M. Rateaver? anyone?) could explain --in layfarmer's terms-- how endocytosis works. The academic writings available on the net are just too thick and jargon-y to wade through. gracias, -- dawn aka gardenbetty We will be known by the tracks we leave behind... Dakota proverb To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 16:34:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA23084 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:34:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19809 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:41:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (mail.gov.pe.ca [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA19774 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:41:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:37:00 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:49:28 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: DGreen47@aol.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: SUSTAINABLE agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 It is also international wealth redistribution. We may think that LDC labour is being exploited because they are paid so much less than North American or European workers, but they consider it development. When a country's currency gets too valuable, it becomes cheaper to buy things than to produce them. This slowly brings the world to equilibrium. If, on the other hand, we prefer to hold onto what we have, we can try to raise trade barriers to imports (usually while still keeping the export lines open!). This isn't helpful; the pressure just builds, and other industries are hurt in the process. If any industry isn't profitable it will go away by itself (true even when in competition with subsidized products, of course). Clearly this hasn't happened to US agriculture. There are a lot fewer farmers than their used to be, but agriculture is still seeing holding its own. In the end, the quality of the land is more important than the price of the labour -- and North America has a whole lot of good land. BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 18:07:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24898 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:07:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA29043 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:44:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f109.hotmail.com [207.82.250.228]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA28985 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:43:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 15023 invoked by uid 0); 22 Mar 1999 21:43:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990322214329.15022.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.136.65.44 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:43:20 PST X-Originating-IP: [208.136.65.44] From: "Kirsten Saylor" To: nefood-l@sardonyx.tufts.edu, comfood-l@sardonyx.tufts.edu, sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Corporate Food Control Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:43:20 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 I have been asked to forward this post -- please pass it on. Kirsten Saylor The AGRIBUSINESS EXAMINER EXTRA St. Patrick's Day, 1999 Monitoring Corporate Agribusiness From a Public Interest Perspective A.V. Krebs Editor\Publisher Editors Note Any exposure or circulation you might be able to give to the "News Release" below within your community or organization will be greatly appreciated. ALLIANCE FOR DEMOCRACY ANNOUNCES "LAUNCHING THE PEOPLE'S MILLENNIUM, CHALLENGING CORPORATE CONTROL OF FOOD AND AGRICULTURE" CONFERENCE APRIL 29, 1999 IN BOULDER, COLORADO Contacts: * Ben Kjelshus bkjelshus@aol.com * A.V. Krebs avkrebs@earthlink.net Who will control the nation's and the world's food supply in the coming millennium? What will happen to family farms, farm and food workers and our rural communities as agriculture and our food system are threatened to become more globalized, centrally controlled and highly industrialized? How safe are genetically modified organisms (GMO) in our food and what economic, environmental, health and safety risks do they present to the family farmer and the consumer? What role will local sustainable agriculture food systems play in an increasingly globalized industrial agriculture and food system? These and related subjects will be discussed and responded to during an all-day April 29, 1999 conference, "Launching the People's Millennium, Challenging Corporate Control of Food & Agriculture," sponsored by the Alliance for Democracy as a prelude to the movement's four-day national convention (April 29-May 3) at the College Inn Conference Center, University of Colorado at Boulder, Boulder, Colorado. "In attempting to deify their own myopic view of efficiency," AfD National Council member A.V. Krebs, the conference's program coordinator points out, "corporate agribusiness has brought family farming, the democratic control of the people's food supply, and a wholesome and healthy natural environment to the brink of a crisis that unless recognized, confronted and reversed will inevitably lead to a worldwide economic, political, social and environmental disaster unlike any seen in human history. This one-day conference will seek to show how people can challenge this corporate agribusiness view." In an effort to take back the control and responsibility for the intrinsic safety of our food supply, free from contaminating and health-threatening toxics, the conference will focus on the Food Circles approach as offering a practical, hands-on, sensible, grass roots means of working for and attaining a sustainable food system. Ben Kjelshus, the AfD's Food and Agriculture Task Force Coordinator, explains: "Food Circles, as an alternative to the current global, faulty, environmentally and socially destructive and unsustainable food system, links consumers, farmers, retailers, environmentalists and other concerned citizens in a creative and comprehensive effort to deal with the critical problems of our present food system. Food Circles are a key to developing an integrated, decentralized, sustainable food system. "They and other grass roots projects working for a sustainable food system are vehicles with considerable potential for effecting social change," he adds. The all-day conference, beginning at 8:30 AM will be highlighted by three panels, composed of nationally and internationally prominent agriculture and food specialists and activists, and a series of subject-related afternoon workshops. They include: "ENDING THE CORPORATE CENTURY:" * John Hansen (Family Farmers), President, Nebraska Farmers Union, Lincoln, Neb; * Nelson Carrasquillo (Farm Workers), Member, USDA National Commission on Small Farms, Board Member, Rural Coalition, Comite de Apoyo a los Trabajadores Agricolas, Glassboro, NJ; * Josh Karliner (Environmental Issues), Corporate Watch Editorial Coordinator, Author of "The Corporate Planet: Ecology and Politics in the Age of Globalization," San Francisco, California, * Clara Oleson (Food Workers & Rural Communities), Program Coordinator, Labor Center, University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa. "LAUNCHING THE PEOPLE'S MILLENNIUM" * Kathleen Sullivan Kelley (Family Farming), Cattle Rancher, Vice Co-Chair, USDA National Commission on Small Farms, Meeker, Colorado; * Dr. Vandana Shiva (Biosafety & Biotechnology), Author "Biopiracy" and "Seeds of Suicide: The Ecological & Human Costs of Globalization of Agriculture," Research Foundation for Science, Technology and Natural Resource Policy, New Delhi, India; * Dolores Huerta ( Women, Labor & Agriculture), Vice-President, United Farm Workers (UFW) Keene, California, Invited * Mark Ritchie (Trade), President, Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, Minneapolis, Minnesota. "FOOD CIRCLES --- CHALLENGING THE GLOBAL FOOD SYSTEM" * William Heffernan, Professor of Rural Sociology University of Missouri, Columbia; * Mary Hendrickson, Post Graduate Fellow University of Missouri, Columbia; * Ben Kjelshus, Coordinator and Founder Kansas City Food Circle, Kansas City, MO, * Kathy Garcia Community Activist, Organizer with the Boulder County Y2K Community Preparedness Group. The objective of the workshops will be to draft recommendations for a "Boulder Agrarian Populist Agenda" and prepare recommendations for presentation and deliberation at the Alliance for Democracy Third Annual National Convention scheduled to begin later the evening of April 29. The Alliance for Democracy, currently with over 50 local chapters and 2000 members, is a three-year old national populist movement that seeks to end the domination of the nation's economy, government, culture, media and environment by large corporations. Believing that piecemeal reform has been rendered ineffective the AfD has united in examining ways in which various economic interests either enhance or harm the health of democracy, focusing its resources on creating basic change. For additional registration information contact: Alliance for Democracy, P.O. Box 683, Lincoln, Mass. 01773, (781) 259-9395, Peoplesall@aol.com Annalee Cobbett, Atty Chair, FarmCity Alliance coban@seanet.com (206) 626-0266 Fax (206) 626-6477 Views expressed on the farmcity listserv may or may not reflect those of myself or the FarmCity Alliance. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 22 20:07:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA26679 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:07:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11029 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:07:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10947 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:07:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:07:09 -0600 Message-ID: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB062CB4B8@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Steve Blank's American Agriculture Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:07:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 Saneters; I agree Tom Abeles (below) that "Steven Blank represents a real position within the larger agricultural community" in his new book "The End of the American Farm. Blank represents the position of a professional "agricultural economist." Since I have been a "degree carrying" agricultural economist for almost 30 years, on the faculty of four different Land Grant Universities, I can usually identify one quite accurately when I read one. Blank should not be blamed for seeing the world through an economist's eyes. But, we neither should we blindly accept what the economist sees as the only objective reality - even if the "larger agriculture community," and the "larger global economic community" -- see the same things. Blank's fundamental arguments for the End of American Farm are based in the premise that economic considerations ultimately will prevail over all other considerations - industrial agribusiness replaces family farms because they are "more efficient" and American agribusiness eventually will be displaced by "more efficient" producers elsewhere in the global market. If the assumptions of economic theory were an accurate reflection on reality, Blank's predictions would be reasonable. If the world, at some point in the future, completely abandons human rationality for economic reality, then Blank's predictions could actually come true. Economics has become the dominant "religion" of our American society, and it is being rapidly spread around the World. But, people have not yet abandoned common sense - at least not completely. Economics is fundamentally incapable of dealing with relationships among people, or between people and their environment. This fact is freely admitted even in economics text books. In economics, a market is nothing more than a collection of independent individual consumers. Human institutions such as families, communities, nations and cultures have no economic relevance - other than as collections of individuals. Thus, one gains no economic well being from relationships -- from identifying with or being a part of any particular family, community, nation or culture. Does that make sense? Are believing, trusting, sharing, caring, and serving just empty words? Do faith, hope, and love have impacts on our quality of life, or these just illusions of the human imagination? In economics theory, the environment is a passive entity, and thus, has no specific active relationship with people. The environment is always external, or outside, the economic system. The environment may be ignored, treated as an external constraint, or as something outside impacted by economic activity within. But, the environment is always treated as something separate and apart from people and the economy. Does that make sense? How can we be separate from something that we are a part of? Do the serenity we feel and beauty we see in nature have no impact on our human well being? Does the sense of "rightness" that comes from our attempts to be good stewards of the Earth's resources contribute nothing to our quality of life? When one ignores relationships among people and between people and their environment, the economic arguments are logical. If one values relationships, with people or with the earth, then many economic arguments quite simply do not make sense. To assume that industrial agriculture should displace family farms simply because they may (or may not) have lower dollar and cent cost that the "average" family farm may make economic sense. But that assumption totally ignored the positive relationships that farming families have with the natural environment and with communities of other people with which they are interrelated. The industrial corporation is not human, and thus, if fundamentally incapable of such relationships. Does it make sense to turn the economy - a human creation to serve the needs of humans - over to something that is fundamentally non-human? To assume that food and fiber should be produced wherever on the globe that it can be produced at the lowest "dollar and cent" cost totally ignores the relationships among people, among communities, among nations and among cultures. Trade takes place between two people, or groups of people, not between two non-human economic entities. Economics assumes that trade always takes place between two entities that are equally competent and capable of pursuing their own self-interest. Sometimes this is a valid assumption, but often it is not. Any trade that is legal is generally accepted as "free" trade. Economics ignores the fact that the world is filled with people (and countries) who are inherently unequal in competence and capabilities. It ignores the fact that the strong may pressure the weak into trading by simply threatening or withholding benefits, or protection from harm, upon which the weak has become dependent. Since the strong are not legally required to provide these benefits, no law is broken. When trade occurs between the strong and the weak, particularly when motivated by profit as economists assume, the weak is invariably exploited by the strong. As long as the outcomes for strong and weak added together end up in a larger dollar and cent total, economics concludes that there have been gains from trade - no matter that the weak is now even weaken and more vulnerable and the strong is now stronger and even more dominant. Does that make sense? Are justice and equity just empty words that were written into our Constitution in our "romantic and idealistic" past. Or are they fundamental principles of democracy that must be upheld by any democracy that expects to survive as a democracy? Are we really willing to accept "He who has the gold rules" as the Golden Rule of America - or will we insist that Americans actually "Do unto others as we would have them do into us?" Economics is concerned totally and completely with pursuit of short run, self interests. Economics recognizes no unique social value - society is nothing more than a collection of individuals. Economics recognizes no unique spiritual values - and concern for the environment, at least for its sustainability - is fundamentally spiritual. Economist - and the industrial, corporate interests that now would raise economists to the priesthood - would cast out those of us who still believe that quality of life has social and spiritual dimensions that are just as important as our narrow economic self interests. Does economics really make sense? Or are we a society that is being shamed into doing things that don't make sense because we don't want to be publicly degraded and labeled as being economically illiterate and irrational? Sustainability, as a new model or paradigm for human society, simply makes more sense that does conventional economics. Current economic theory has its foundations in assumptions that are at least 200 years out of date. It is economics -- not family farms, rural communities, families, nations, and cultures - that is out of date. We have no ethical or moral obligation to accept economics as the final arbitrator of who gets to farm and who doesn't, what we do in rural communities and what we don't, where food is produced and where it is not, whether or not we trade, or anything else. Economics is a creation of people. We simply cannot afford turn the thing we created for our benefit loose to exploit the very people it was designed to serve. Does that make any sense? The religion of free market economics, would quite likely take us to a future much like that forecasted in "The End of the American Farm." This is a distinct possibility and certainly not a trivial matter to be considered lightly. If our concerns for each other and for our natural environment are simply illusions of our imagination, then we may all be better off as a consequence. But if relationships, with other people and with nature, really do matter, we could find out too late. There is a positive alternative to conventional economics emerging from the sustainability movement. The time to choose between the religion of economics and the common sense of sustainability may well be at hand. Let's hope we choose wisely. How do choose wisely? Quite simply -- continue to use our common sense. John Ikerd University of Missouri -----Original Message----- From: tom abeles [mailto:tabeles@tmn.com] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 1999 7:00 PM To: Ronald Nigh Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: End of Steven Blank's nonesense There have been several cutting posts regarding Steven Blank's article in the recent issue of "The Futuist". None has contributed a single counterpoint, any rational respnse or constructive alternatives. Blank represents a real position within the larger agricultural community. Yet no peer from The Academy or government has come forward with anything to counter. And the alternative agricultural community, including think tanks have been stragely silent. Sometimes silence serves as a reasoned respnse. Not in this case and not on this list devoted to a partisan vision of agriculture which might be considered antithetical to the positon postulated by Blank thoughts? tom abeles To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 09:39:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA05772 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:39:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA29884 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:37:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29861 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:37:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA28828 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:37:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA01618; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:37:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000001be7531$f64de560$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "Russ Bulluck" , "Kevin Smyth" , "Sustainable Ag" Subject: Re: 17 year locusts Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:36:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 Actually, this post is not correct. There are species of cicadas that emerge every year, even though they take several years to develop, and there are other species with a (mostly) synchronized life cycle of 13 or 17 years. I have refrained from sticking my two cents in as a Ph.D. entomologist because all the other responses have been very accurate. The cicadas that emerge every year (in eastern U.S.) are commonly called the dog-day cicadas, because they emerge in July and August. It is not known (at least according to my old general entomology textbook) how long they take to develop, but it is probably longer than 4 years. However, the broods overlap, so some adults emerge each year. "Tibicen" is the name of a common genus. The periodical cicadas (sometimes called locusts because of their sudden appearance in large numbers -- the real locusts are swarming species of grasshopers) have 13 or 17 year life cycles that are synchronized, so many adults appear at once. They belong to the genus "Magicicada." They generally emerge in late May and early June. It is true that the cicadas are not a threat to vegetables, except possibly incidentally while emerging from the ground in recently cleared areas. Periodical cicadas in dense populations can do substantial damage to some trees. A colleague of mine who works with insects of apple trees has found locally heavy damage. Kimberly Stoner Department of Entomology CT Agricultural Experiment Station P.O.Box 1106 New Haven, CT 06504 203-974-8480 -----Original Message----- From: Russ Bulluck To: Kevin Smyth ; Sustainable Ag Date: Monday, March 22, 1999 9:31 AM Subject: Re: 17 year locusts >Actually, the 17 year locust appears each year, just that every 17 years, a >bumper crop appears. Cicadas mainly like oak trees (especially Quercus alba, >the white oak). I thought that 1995 or 96 was the 17th year. (There is also >a three year locust, and several other species, I think.) The main effect of >the cicada is tip dieback in oak trees. They seem to like the fresh tips of >oak branches. I don't think you have to worry about the veggies. > >In the summer of 1996, while moving from PA to NC to finish graduate work, >_all_ of the oak trees on highway 15 through Virginia had dead tips. It was >quite a sight. When I reached NC State, I asked a forest pathologist here, >who said it was the 17 year locust. > >Kevin Smyth wrote: > >> Friends - This is the year for the 17 year locusts (I heard they were >> actually cicadas), and I am wondering what effect they might have on our >> vegetable crops here in SE Ohio. We grow 2.5 acres organic vegetables for >> a CSA here. Anybody know? >> Kevin Smyth >> ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >-- >Russ Bulluck >Ph.D. Student >Department of Plant Pathology >North Carolina State University >PO Box 7616 >Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot >be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, >and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil >economy that it must be studied. >--Sir E. John Russell >The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 10:31:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA06920 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA25303 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:24:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA25294 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.151.4.34] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:24:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:34:54 -0400 Subject: Market Gardening Short Course From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990323142421636.AAA279@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.34]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 Good Earth Farm School, Buena Vista, Virginia, is offering a 3-day intensive market gardening short course on April 9-11, 1999. Participants will be introduced to everything they need to know to design and create a profitable small farm business. Topics include site selection and development, soil regeneration, crop and market choices, labor and equipment needs, integrated pest management, value added processing, complimentary marketing options and poultry and small livestock in the garden rotation. Instructors are Michael LaChance, Virginia Extension Entomologist, and Andy Lee, organic market gardener and author of BACKYARD MARKET GARDENING and CHICKEN TRACTOR. Course fee of $285 includes course materials, lunches and snacks. Inexpensive lodging is available in nearby Lexington, Virginia. For more information contact Andy Lee, Director, Good Earth Farm School, 1702 Mountain View Road, Buena Vista, Virginia 24416, phone and fax 540-261-8775. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 12:10:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09488 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:10:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA01840 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:24:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01774 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:24:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:22:33 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Exhibits Wanted for Small Farm Conf Oct 99 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:22:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:48:09 GMT > From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov > > SOLICITATION FOR EXHIBIT DISPLAYS > Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov > Precedence: bulk > > SECOND NATIONAL SMALL FARM CONFERENCE > > We invite non-profit community based organizations, foundations, > educational institutions, and other groups who work directly > with small > farm communities to set up informational displays to promote their > agencies/organizations/institutions, and their their work > with small and > mid-size farmers. The booths will be located in the hotel exhibition > hall. Each exhibitor will receive the following: one 8' table with > skirting and two chairs, a one-line ID sign, and listing in > the Conference > Program Guide. There is no charge for the space but we we do > ask that you > staff your display, particularly during breaks. We cannot include > registration to the conference with this invitataion. We will have a > resource room at the conference if your organization cannot > participate > but would like to send literature. > > Deadline for submission is May 31, 1999. You will be > notified before June > 15, 1999 if your exhibit has been selected for the > conference. Please > send a description of programs and services your organization > provides to > the small farm communities in 200 words or less. > > If your organization or institution is selected, your exhibit display > write up will be included in the conference program agenda. > Solicitations > from individuals will not be accepted. Any individual > success story or > educational information can be shared by way of the poster display. > For updates about the conference or the solicitation for > poster displays, > please visit the conference website at: > http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc > > Your response on or before May 31, 1999 will be most appreciated. > > > Thank You > > > Denis Ebodaghe, Ph.D > National Program Leader--Small Farms > USDA-CSREES > Phone: 202-401-4385; Fax: 202-401-5179 > E-mail: debodaghe@reeusda.gov > Website: http://www.reeusda.gov/smallfarm > Tollfree: 1-800-583-3071 > -- > To Subscribe > Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov > In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm > > To Unsubscribe > Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov > In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 12:16:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09600 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:15:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA28069 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:15:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28039 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:15:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:13:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'sdavis@farmland.org'" Subject: FW: Keep America Growing Conference Announcement Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:12:54 -0500 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BE7548.065D42F0" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BE7548.065D42F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Shaka Davis [mailto:sdavis@farmland.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 10:42 AM To: All Keep America Growing Conference Participants Subject: Keep America Growing Conference Announcement Importance: High CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT KEEP AMERICA GROWING CONFERENCE: BALANCING WORKING LANDS AND DEVELOPMENT June 6-9, 1999 Philadelphia, PA A cross section of public officials and professionals from fields as diverse as transportation, rural and urban development, agricultural, ranching, forestry, housing, and environmental conservation will join together for Keep America Growing, a conference dedicated to striking the balance between working lands and development. The conference, which will be held June 6-9, 1999 at the Adams Mark Hotel in Philadelphia, presents a unique opportunity to define a common agenda between people whose paths might not normally cross. Keep America Growing will feature over 150 presentations on land use issues including keynote and panel addresses by nationally acclaimed experts in growth management. Participants from across the country will network and share ideas on topics such as land use and population trends, the impact of unplanned growth, successful programs that balance development and land use, and the urban-rural connection. Participants will walk away with the necessary tools and networks to take action in their own communities. Speakers include leaders from the fields of policy, agriculture, conservation, development and politics. Invited speakers include Vice President Al Gore, New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman, Pennsylvania Governor Thomas Ridge, and other nationally known leaders. The conference also will offer regional workshops facilitated by The Pinchot Institute for Conservation to understand issues on a regional basis and to promote networking. The conference begins on Sunday with 10 pre-conference technical and recreational field trips. For complete information and latest updates, visit the conference website at www.farmland.org/KAG.html . Visit the website or contact Cindy Delaney at 802-655-7769 or by e-mail at delaney@together.net , to request a conference registration brochure. To register, visit the website or click ' registration form ', print it, and mail it in, or fill out the registration brochure. The conference provides an excellent forum to display new industry-related products and information. A number of exhibit and sponsorship opportunities are still available. 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 12:36:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA10089 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:36:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA17426 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:49:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17281 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA29912; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:48:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from wor-ma1-21.ix.netcom.com(205.184.168.53) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029805; Tue Mar 23 10:48:01 1999 Message-ID: <008c01be754c$aeceb820$35a8b8cd@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Sustainable Agriculture Network" , Subject: Re: Exhibits Wanted for Small Farm Conf Oct 99 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:46:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 128 Where is this conference? Hotel? Beth >> We invite non-profit community based organizations, foundations, >> educational institutions, and other groups who work directly >> with small >> farm communities to set up informational displays to promote their >> agencies/organizations/institutions, and their their work >> with small and >> mid-size farmers. The booths will be located in the hotel exhibition >> hall. Each exhibitor will receive the following: one 8' table with >> skirting and two chairs, a one-line ID sign, and listing in >> the Conference >> Program Guide. There is no charge for the space but we we do >> ask that you >> staff your display, particularly during breaks. We cannot include >> registration to the conference with this invitataion. We will have a >> resource room at the conference if your organization cannot >> participate >> but would like to send literature. >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 12:39:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA10232 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:39:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19568 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:51:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19559 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:51:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:53:24 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: (Fwd) Farm women in Europe (and India) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:53:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 Sanet: I saw the following three movies as part of the Environmental Film Festival in DC last Friday, March 19th. They were each compelling views of agriculture, and the role of women in the agriculture of India. I recommend them to anyone with an interest in labor issues, women's rights, sustainable agriculture, seed-saving and the role of multinational companies in the international seed industry. The third film, Eternal Seed showed some forceful juxtapositions of seed saving in traditional agriculture vs. high-tech and biotech agriculture. FROM the Environmental Film Festival web site http://www.capaccess.org/ane/eff/ Kamala and Raji (USA, 1996, 46 min.) In Ahmedabad, India, two working women struggle to make their lives better, sometimes defying their husbands, the police, and a tradition in which women are still viewed as second-class citizens. Kamala, a young mother with an abusive husband, and Raji, a vegetable seller, become involved with the Self-Employed Women's Association. Their personal struggles have made them aware of the general plight of women in their country. By Michael Camerini and Shari Robertson. Once This Land Was Ours (India, 1991, 19 min.) is a poetic documentary about women agriculture workers in India and their struggle to provide for their families. Although they work to produce food for others, they have increasing difficulties feeding their own children. By Shikha Jhingan. Eternal Seed (India, 1996, 43 min.) With insightful interviews and rare footage from India's agricultural industry, this film depicts Indian women's struggles to use traditional farming practices instead of chemically-based agriculture. Comparing the practices of women who consider seeds sacred with multinational companies' use of sterilized hybrids, this evocative analysis celebrates the scientific basis of women's native traditions in a look at the evolving meaning of healthy land use. By Meera Dewan. Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 12:53:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11542 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:53:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21974 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:59:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21930 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:59:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:01:26 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'Dan Hook'" , Sustainable Agriculture Network , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: AGAIN: Exhibits Wanted for Small Farm Conf Oct 99 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:01:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 I'll try this again. Sorry if my forwarded message was incomplete. :( See the web site, too: http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc THEME: Building Partnerships for the 21st Century WHERE: REGAL RIVERFRONT HOTEL, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI WHEN: OCTOBER 12-15, 1999 HOSTS: Lincoln University, Jefferson City, Missouri; University of Missouri, Columbia; USDA-CSREES The Second National Small Farm Conference will provide an opportunity for people in the public and private sectors, including community based organizations, land-grant institutions, small and medium sized farmers to strengthen collaboration and partnerships to work more effectively with the small farm community. Participation is the key to the conference's success. Hands-on workshops, open forum discussions, and participant-organized networking sessions will be key features of the conference. Some of the issues that participants will address include: marketing strategies, value added enterprises, grant writing, business and entrepreneurial skills, farmer-to-farmer and beginning farmer networks. Representatives from USDA and its partners will make reports on follow-up from the 1996 National Small Farm Conference held in Nashville, Tennessee, and on the implementation of the recommendations made by the National Commission on Small Farms. The conference will include poster presentations and exhibits. Solicitations for posters and exhibits are also posted at this website. SPONSORS: Lincoln University, Jefferson City; University of Missouri, Columbia; W. K. Kellogg Foundation; Farm Foundation; U.S. Environmental Protection Agency;U.S. Department of Agriculture--Agricultural Research Service; Agricultural Marketing Service; Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service, Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program; Farm Service Agency; Foreign Agricultural Service; Forest Service; National Office of Outreach; National Agricultural Statistics Service; Natural Resources Conservation Service; and Rural Development. > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:48:09 GMT > From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov > > SOLICITATION FOR EXHIBIT DISPLAYS > Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov > Precedence: bulk > > SECOND NATIONAL SMALL FARM CONFERENCE > > We invite non-profit community based organizations, foundations, > educational institutions, and other groups who work directly > with small > farm communities to set up informational displays to promote their > agencies/organizations/institutions, and their their work > with small and > mid-size farmers. The booths will be located in the hotel exhibition > hall. Each exhibitor will receive the following: one 8' table with > skirting and two chairs, a one-line ID sign, and listing in > the Conference > Program Guide. There is no charge for the space but we we do > ask that you > staff your display, particularly during breaks. We cannot include > registration to the conference with this invitataion. We will have a > resource room at the conference if your organization cannot > participate > but would like to send literature. > > Deadline for submission is May 31, 1999. You will be > notified before June > 15, 1999 if your exhibit has been selected for the > conference. Please > send a description of programs and services your organization > provides to > the small farm communities in 200 words or less. > > If your organization or institution is selected, your exhibit display > write up will be included in the conference program agenda. > Solicitations > from individuals will not be accepted. Any individual > success story or > educational information can be shared by way of the poster display. > For updates about the conference or the solicitation for > poster displays, > please visit the conference website at: > http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc > > Your response on or before May 31, 1999 will be most appreciated. > > > Thank You > > > Denis Ebodaghe, Ph.D > National Program Leader--Small Farms > USDA-CSREES > Phone: 202-401-4385; Fax: 202-401-5179 > E-mail: debodaghe@reeusda.gov > Website: http://www.reeusda.gov/smallfarm > Tollfree: 1-800-583-3071 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 15:17:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14665 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA02872 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:20:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02809 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:20:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool006-max2.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.13.6]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id HQ1Q6CMR; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:24:46 -0500 Message-ID: <36F7E8CC.E755F1BC@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:17:33 -0800 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sustainable agriculture References: <199903222310.SAA17780@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 The only problem is that north america is rapidly losing the majority of its good land, and will continue to do so until the current rate of developement and the current methods of production are changed. for obvious reasons, cities have frequently grown up amongst highly fertile land, and now, that they can import their food, are swallowing that very same land- enter the sustainable communities movement... on the degredation of the land note, current conventional agriculture practices send a vast amount of topsoil into the gulf of mexico (amongst other water bodies) each year, and do nothing to increase ore replenish the biomass. studies by ucdavis and the rodale institute have recently shown that transition to organic methods of production in the majority of this continent could reverse that trend, and in fact return north america to its previous stature as the fertile cresent of the modern world. Furthermore, both studies have shown organic methods to be just as, if not more economically viable than conventional ag, and to maintain the same levels of production, both areas that the conventional groups have attacked- science is now on our side, consumers are now on our side, even the corporations are begining to come around (general mills is releasing a line of organic cereals)- the time has come to begin the publicity To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 15:45:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15206 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:45:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA09165 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:28:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay2.rcp.net.pe (relay2.rcp.net.pe [200.1.178.248]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA09140 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:28:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from amauta.rcp.net.pe ([161.132.5.5]:59986 "HELO amauta.rcp.net.pe" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]") by relay2.rcp.net.pe with SMTP id <7738-16100>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:31:28 +0500 Received: from amauta.rcp.net.pe(asy3.rcp.net.pe[200.1.182.3]) (1507 bytes) by amauta.rcp.net.pe via smail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:26:07 -0500 (GMT) (Smail-3.2.0.105 1999-Mar-3 #33 built 1999-Mar-8) Message-ID: <36F7EBD7.68C2AF72@amauta.rcp.net.pe> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:30:48 -0500 From: Sharon Stevenson Reply-To: ssteve@amauta.rcp.net.pe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en-US, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-MG@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Who speaks Spanish and... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 ...would be --theoretically--willing to respond to organic agriculture questions from campesinos trying to get and stay out of coca? A couple of years ago I put up a note about my idea for a project to get internet access to the farmers here in Peru which actually may finally have a chance of seeing reality. In order not to disturb the list, you could just email me privately and I'll sum up for the list after a week or so.....optimistically thinking that there will be considerable response!!! Thanks loads.... (BTW--I have been sending the digests of responses to the NPR story on MOnsanto to the foreign editor to whom I occasionally send stories and assume he forwarded them to the right person.) -- Sharon Stevenson Tel/fax (51-1) 444-4749 Lima, Peru ---------------------- Our best hope for civility? The Golden Rule: Treat others as you wish to be treated--for the good of us all! :-) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 15:46:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15233 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:46:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20233 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:48:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20224 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:48:18 -0500 (EST) From: holocene@juno.com Received: (from holocene@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6EW27V3; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:46:32 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: pigs - traditional breeds Message-ID: <19990323.120209.11046.0.holocene@juno.com> References: <199903202310.SAA05604@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-12,14-17,19-21 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:46:32 EST Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 I am intrigued to know if there is much debate in American sustainable agricultural circles re the advantages of maintaining traditional (and all too frequently, rare) breeds of livestock? The question about pigs brought this to mind, as I remembered how lucky we felt when we had a small farm in the UK and found that in a neighboring village there was a Gloucester Old Spot boar ready and eager to service our Old Spot sow. These fabulous pigs are tough, hardy, good out door pigs, nearly lost in the enthusiasm about the new wonder pigs, but now slowly making a comeback, thanks largely to backyard farmer enthusiasm. WHo knows when we will need these traits again, especially when/if we shift to more integrated farming with animals filling ecological niches in land management.. Similar to the reminder that GMO's don't just affect plants, neither does loss of biodiversity on the farm. Cheers, Jo Tippett Holocene Design -helps you and your organization understand and apply sustainable development and learn skills to design innovative solutions. http://www.holocene.net ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 16:03:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA15584 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA24124 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:56:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23990 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:56:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:59:06 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Position: Crop Science Head- NCSU Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:58:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 134 -----Original Message----- From: Carolina Farm Stewardship Association [mailto:cfsa@intrex.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 3:02 PM To: Sustainable Agriculture Network; Subject: Crop Science Head- NCSU Greetings- I wanted to share this position announcement for Department Head/Crop Science at NCSU (Raleigh, NC) directly with the sustainable ag community. NCSU is growing as a land grant that supports Sustainable Agriculture. CFSA collaborated with NCSU on our Kellogg project and we have many other joint projects between us. The Center for Environmental Farming Systems is receiving increased attention from the legislature, the Department of Ag and the College of Ag and Life Sciences- the Head would have an important opportunity to move the systems, and organic research forward at the research station. Please contact Laura or the chair of the search committee directly if you'd like any more information. cheers Laura Lauffer Carolina Farm Stewardship Association PO Box 448, Pittsboro, NC 27312 (919) 542-2402 Fax 542-7401 www.sunsite.unc.edu/cfsa/index.htm HEAD, DEPARTMENT OF CROP SCIENCE COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE AND LIFE SCIENCES NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY TITLE: Professor and Head POSITION: The Department Head provides leadership and administers teaching, research, and extension activities in a large and diverse department. The Head plays a key role in faculty and staff recruitment and development, program planning and evaluation, and budgetary matters including fund allocations and accountability. The Head also represents the Department to College and University administrations, to the agricultural industry, to environmental and consumer communities, and collaborates with other university departments and state, national, and international institutions and agencies. The headship is viewed as a full-time administrative position. DEPARTMENT: The Department of Crop Science consists of approximately 60 faculty which include USDA appointments and is internationally recognized with fully integrated programs in teaching, research, and extension. It offers education and training leading to the following degrees: two-year associate, bachelor of science, master of crop science (non-thesis), master of science, and doctor of philosophy. Major areas of research include plant breeding, molecular biology, crop production, crop physiology, forage crop ecology and utilization, turfgrass management, weed science, plant chemistry, nutrient management, and water quality. Research includes both basic and applied elements, the applied components being influenced by regional and international needs as well as those of the state's agricultural and urban clientele. A comprehensive extension program communicates research findings throughout the state; the department is responsible for providing contemporary training and educational programs to agricultural agents in 100 counties. QUALIFICATIONS: Applicants must have earned the Ph.D. degree in Agronomy or a closely related discipline, have a record of professional achievement and leadership in the field with an intimate knowledge of current developments. The successful candidate must have a commitment to teaching, research, and extension appropriate to a land-grant university, and be able to communicate effectively with faculty, staff, students, administrators, agricultural industry leaders, and the public. Administrative experience is preferred. APPLICATION: Applicants should submit a complete vita, a complete list of publications, a statement of goals, and letters of recommendation from at least three sources to: Dr. T.J. Monaco Crop Science Head Search Committee Department of Horticultural Science Campus Box 7609 North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC 27695-7609 Phone (919) 515-3131 FAX (919) 513-3191 e-mail: tom_monaco@ncsu.edu Deadline for receiving applications is May 10, 1999 or until a suitable candidate is found. NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER. THE UNIVERSITY URGES ALL QUALIFIED APPLICANTS TO APPLY. DOCUMENTATION OF IDENTITY AND EMPLOYABILITY OF THE APPLICANT WILL BE REQUIRED BEFORE THE HIRING PROCESS CAN BE FINALIZED. INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES DESIRING ACCOMMODATIONS IN THE APPLICATION PROCESS SHOULD CONTACT THE ABOVE INDIVIDUAL. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 16:32:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16156 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:32:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA12231 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:25:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA12130 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:25:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903232025.PAA12130@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.168] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A8A147B0514; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:25:05 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:21:30 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: End of American Agriculture Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:07:07 -0600, John Ikerd wrote: >Blank's fundamental arguments for the End of American Farm are based in the >premise that economic considerations ultimately will prevail over all other >considerations - industrial agribusiness replaces family farms because they >are "more efficient" and American agribusiness eventually will be displaced >by "more efficient" producers elsewhere in the global market. It also assumes that establishment of American levels of agricultural infrastructure (which would be required to develop American levels of "efficiency") will occur without affecting labor, land, and capital costs now prevailing in most other areas of the world. Having spent a fair deal of time on farms in the developing world, and even in Central Europe, I need to point out that in such areas it is currently difficult to find an O-ring within 300 km when you need one, leave alone anything even slightly more esoteric like shear pins and V-belts. Low labor costs and the absence of social programs are not sufficient to make agriculture more "efficient." American style corporate intensive agriculture depends upon a complex distribution system for many of its inputs. Most other countries aren't even remotely close to having one. > Economics has become the >dominant "religion" of our American society, and it is being rapidly spread >around the World. Back about 600 or 700 years ago, it was *religion* that dominated the intellectual and social framework of the era. It gradually became clear that in themselves the religious understandings of the era were inadequate to explain assorted important phenomena arising at the time (bubonic plague, for example). Economics today is in a very similar position, and equally inadequate. Some of the major responses to the inadequacy of then prevailing religious thought were (ironically) the development of economics to understand the cash economy that developed in response to plague-induced labor shortages. Another was the Reformation, which could be described (in part) as a democratization of religion by making the original basis of the faith (ie scripture) available to the people in their own language. That same two-pronged approach (develop *additional* understandings and democratize the old ones) would seem to offer some promise of ameliorating the very conditions forming the assumptions on which Mr. Blank's thinking appears to be based. In this case such an approach would add a social/environmental component on the one hand and help the average farmer better understand the bases of economics on the other. >Economics is fundamentally incapable of dealing with relationships among >people, or between people and their environment. [snip] Are believing, trusting, sharing, caring, and serving just >empty words? Do faith, hope, and love have impacts on our quality of life, >or these just illusions of the human imagination? Ironically, both prongs of the response suggested above would fit quite comfortably within Judaeo-Christian precepts of stewardship. The Old Testament has some six dozen pertinent references to land care, to say nothing of abundant Old and New Testament references to caring for each other. >When one ignores relationships among people and between people and their >environment, the economic arguments are logical. If one values >relationships, with people or with the earth, then many economic arguments >quite simply do not make sense. We should not rule out the role of government in worsening the problem. I think you can make a reasonable case that government demands for revenue are partly responsible for having led us down this path of economically defined agriculture. The more times agricultural inputs or outputs are handled, processed, moved, sold, and resold the more it requires an industrial approach --- the more tax revenue it can generate for the government. Of course it all requires a bigger bureaucracy to supervise the transactions, along with another bureacracy to deal with the social wreckage. Which requires more revenue, etc. etc. I suspect government would be very reluctant to see food production go offshore because it would greatly reduce the number of key transactions that could be taxed. Nor should we overlook the current accounts impact of food exports. While I do not support present export-focused ag policy, it must be admitted that food exports make our trade deficit situation somewhat less ugly. The bottom line is this. Over the long term, the well managed medium-sized family farm will probably out-perform (in a *fair* competion) the consolidated corporate operation most of the time. There is an historic ebb and flow of agricultural concentration that runs through centuries. A hundred years ago we had "Bonanza" farms of up to 75,000 acres that eventually failed because they couldn't be managed. Nearly a century before that there were immense plantations that struggled to maintain themselves even before their slaves were forcibly set free. Ditto in 15th century England. As far back as the prophets Micah and Isaiah (750 BC) it was written "Woe to you who join field to field and land to land ... until there are no inhabitants left." Right now we're in another consolidation phase, but I don't expect it will be any more permanent than any of the several dozen previous consolidations. Mr. Blank's argument would seem to depend on conditions that are neither particularly long-lasting nor stable. >Sustainability, as a new model or paradigm for human society, simply makes >more sense that does conventional economics. The agronomy of sustainability, however, is not yet as well developed as it will need to be in order to supplant current systems. Since we are not presently starving, *now* is the time to experiment and develop these new systems. The abundance of our food supply is not guaranteed forever, and arguments that we should do more of the same, only someplace else, are not particularly forward-looking. Even if all the economics behind Mr. Blank's logic were correct, his assumption that current conditions will prevail indefinitely flies in the face of several thousand years of human history, to say nothing of the dynamics of natural systems. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 17:17:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17874 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:17:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA16560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:22:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gold.wvnet.edu (gold.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA16518 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.wvnet.edu (129.71.87.12) by gold.wvnet.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.34232220@gold.wvnet.edu>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:28:37 -0500 Message-id: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:24:53 -0500 Subject: Re: A New Perspective of Agriculture From: MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org (Marian Buckner) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: prairiedf@globaldialog.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 Greg David's recent thoughtful piece on this subject was most interesting and of potential value to many of us on this listserve. His quotations were very well-selected. The possibilities for our comment are many, including factory farming, farmer-environmentalist relationships, and the farmer's perspective on stewardship of his farmland, and even the future of farming and rural communities in America. I'd like to see comments from others of you on questions that he posed to us. Although it wasn't his main point, I particularly reacted to Greg's point about farmers cashing in on their land after they had made their lifelong contribution of food and fiber to their fellow citizens. The main option now for the retiring farmer is often selling to a developer to put houses on prime farmland. Farmers must be allowed to profit from their land, yet is there a more sustainable, and practical, way than turning farmland into new houses? Certainly farmers ought to profit from the sale of their farmland, just as others do from other types of land. Yet, the main present option of turning farmland into new houses doesn't seem sustainable. How long can we continue the present US trend to add three million new appetites every year and lose one million acres of our best farmland every year? Money for Purchase of Development Rights is one solution. But at the present, there is far from enough money to buy up the development rights of all the prime farmland at risk. Can others of you see any other options? Do you think that as taxpayers realize that new houses on farmland cost them money and add to the taxes they pay for new infrastructure, especially schools, that they will follow the lead of communities like Pittsford, NY, and others who voted to tax themselves to buy adjacent farmland and keep it in farming because it will cost them less in the end in the amount of taxes they pay? I hope that some of you have some new thoughts on this subject. I wonder if you will agree that whether or not we continue to have a rural America is riding on your answers. Marian Buckner, West Virginia To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 18:12:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19369 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 18:12:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11919 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:06:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11799 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:06:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA09860 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:05:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA23033 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:05:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199903232205.QAA23033@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:05:49 -0500 Subject: Nonfiction farm books for kids X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 Howdy, all-- While doing a quick search for a .JPG of a gratuitously cute baby duck or chick for Darth Cheezer, I ran across this resource listing that I thought some of you might enjoy. http://www.kyfb.com/nonficti.htm The Kentucky Farm Bureau assembled this list of nonfiction resources for primary, intermediate, and middle school kids. It's part of their larger ag in the classroom resource lists: http://www.kyfb.com/aglibrary.htm Some of the cited works require more than a grain of salt...but all in all, I saw a lot of potential good stuff there. FYI. No baby duck/chick photo, BTW. Ah well. pax misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 19:10:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA20729 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:10:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA15575 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:58:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA15467 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:58:52 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903232258.RAA15467@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.143] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AC946D803CC; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:58:28 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 22:54:55 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: A New Perspective of Agriculture Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:24:53 -0500, Marian Buckner wrote: >now for the retiring farmer is often selling to a developer to put houses >on prime farmland. Farmers must be allowed to profit from their land, >yet is there a more sustainable, and practical, way than turning farmland >into new houses? > > Certainly farmers ought to profit from the sale of their farmland, just >as others do from other types of land. Yet, the main present option of >turning farmland into new houses doesn't seem sustainable. [snip] > > Can others of you see any other options? Here's something to think about. Perhaps the suburbanization of our prime farmland will ultimately be seen as a piece of good luck. Many of us advocate both small farms and local food supplies, while we decry the concentration of land ownership in the corporate/industrial model of agriculture. A one-acre lot on prime farmland is capable of producing a substantial quantity of high quality food, and it is highly unlikely such land will ever again be re-consolidated. When conditions are ripe for it, these suburban lots could quickly be developed into mini-farms, either as home-based businesses or as a source of much good food for the family living there. That sort of flexibility, coupled with broad-based ownership of prime agricultural land in the form of suburban lots, may turn out to be a very lucky and important break at a moment when we need one badly. The history of land tenure issues (albeit oversimplified) can be summarised roughly as follows. There are three interacting components --- free (open) access to land, free peasantry, and non-working landowners --- and in a given land regime you will have any *two* of those components, but not the third. Much American farmland is now in the hands of non-working owners (rented by neighbors), and there is a fluidity as to whether land access will diminish (outmigration of youth) or whether the average rural person will tend to become somewhat enserfed (as in corporate poultry). By allowing for large numbers of working landowners, suburbanised farmland could facilitate much more open access to land and a more entrepreneurial (ie freer) "peasantry." That would be an important safety valve in times of social and/or economic upheaval such as another serious Depression. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 23 21:13:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23997 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA07852 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:11:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA07754 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:11:35 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id sVVWa03224 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:10:13 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 20:10:13 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: GMO Summary Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 206 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 To: Texas Animal Health Control Board and the Texas Department of Agriculture >From Steven Sprinkel Texas Organic Growers Association 23 March 1999 Regarding: Genetic Engineering Technology and Certified Organic Livestock Production and Processing Standards This memorandum is a summary of facts and precedents pertaining to the use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) in organic food and fiber production. 1. In October, 1996, in Indianapolis, Indiana, the USDA National Organic Standards Board ruled that the use of GMOs in organic production and processing is prohibited. The GMO technological process and its products were defined as " synthetic". The US Organic Foods Production Act calls for a prohibition on synthetics unless they have been reviewed according to the criteria in the Act. The petition to include GMOs was appropriately made and recognized by the NOSB, who then rendered their unanimous decision to prohibit . 2. Thereafter, state agencies in the US and private certification agencies in the US and internationally moved to prohibit the use of GMOS if they had not already done so. 3. The original list of proposed materials, substances and life forms that are defined as genetically and or transgenetically modified has been expanded to include a large number of such items that were formerlly considered "naturals" according to the Act. They now include, but are not limited to, GMO plant species such as glyphos resistant soybeans, Bt corn and cotton, GMO livestock including aquatics, livestock feeds that contain GMO ingredients, such as GMO cotton seed meal, soybean meal, alfalfa hay, corn and their byproducts when used as feed supplements and vitamins. They include microbial soil amendments and enhancers, legume inoculants, sugars, GMO rennets for cheese production and cultures used in yogurt and other dairy products. The organic standard now provides that any material or derivation can not have been sourced from GMO raw products, been altered by genetic engineering or have come in contact with them during processing. 4. Authoritative health and environmental reseach has not been conducted appropriately to determine the negative affects on the environment and human and livestock health by GMO products even though they are planted on millions of acres and are now found abundantly in conventional food and livestock feeds. Within the past two years, growing scientific evidence indicates that, at the very least, a field production moratorium be imposed and require point- of-purchase labeling for consumers, included on the ingredient panel. Much anecdotal field observation from farmers also indicates that the claimed production benefits and negligible affects on the environment are not entirely valid. 5. Among the many substantiated findings in the field and analytical laboratories are the following: that unintended mortality from non-target insect species has been observed in GMO potato production, that laboratory animals that ingested GMO agricultural products were biologically injured, that "genetic drift" has been identified in GMO rape seed and corn production, that cotton production has been severely affected leading to litigation by farmers in many US states against the manufacturer and supplier of the seed for the cotton. That because of the use of Bacilus thuringiensis-modified cotton and corn varieties, rapid Bt resistance to European cornborer and cotton bollworm is now suspected, that glyphos-resistant weed species are now identified in those growing areas of the US midwest where the glyphos- resistant soybean crops have been planted for a number of years. 6. This latter development may lead to the prolonged use of materials identified as restricted or scheduled for phase-out, and/or the introduction of new herbicides on an emergency basis, for which environmental evaluation may be foreshortened. The same can be said for newly-resistant insects which were at one time susceptible to the topical use of Bacillus thuringiensis. A broad coaltion of concerned environmentalists and organic farmers filed suit in February, 1999 against EPA in order to halt the planting of Bt altered crops in order to guard the continued effectiveness of the product, which is used by organic and conventional farmers. Government, researchers, conventional farm officials and industry responded tardily to the prospect of Bt resistance by suggesting that refuges be planted to guard against such resistance. Many entomolgists consider that after the 1999 planting season this effort will be moot. 7. Market access for GMO raw products and ingredients is severely affected by consumer concerns in Japan, the UK and the EU, and building within the US. Proposed mandatory labeling of GMOs in consumer goods has now been overtaken by private sector initatives to either label or prohbit the use of GMO consumer products. These initatives are now in place within the mainstream retail sector in the UK and France. WTO may in the end force member states to accept these products, but consumers have shown in some cases a nation-wide unwillingness to take at face value the safety claims made by the supply sector and regulators. These concerns are not limited to the "second wave" of GMOs in grains and horticulture, but are historical, as observed in the longstanding prohbitions on meat products where GMO-derived hormones were used and in rBGH dairy. Health Canada recently prohibited rBGH in dairy production. 8. Organic certification is a systems-based quality assurance program and process which utilizes laboratory analysis normally in the event when synthetic contamination of soil or the product is suspected. However, due to the nature of the absolute prohibitions on GMOS in organic products as well as suppliers making claims that products are "GMO-free" , laboratory-based GMO analysis is becoming more commonplace. One result of the concern has lead organic farmers to seek crop insurance against "genetic drift" or contamination and to more carefully monitor neighboring land use. Contamination concerns have provoked agricultural authorities in Spain to require that GMO agricultural suppliers fund actuarial programs in order to create a liability protocol, in the event that the environmental guarantees made by the suppliers and government regulators are indicated otherwise in the field. I am glad to be able to respond to your recent inquiries. Please contact me if I can provide any further information. Steve Sprinkel Austin, Texas 512-326-3222 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 01:01:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27543 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 01:01:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA28212 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:52:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA28122 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:52:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from greg (tnt-13-31.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.223]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA00644; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 00:27:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199903240527.AAA00644@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: , Subject: Re: pigs - traditional breeds Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 23:50:42 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 140 I don't think the minor breeds have played a large role in US sustainable hog production. They should have a huge role to play. It should be alarming the lack of diversity in all livestock genetics. The biggest drawback is some do not fit easily in the traditional marketing channels. I've raised Tamworth pigs. They are the toughest outdoor hog I have ever seen. But they do have a lower percent lean because of a smaller loin size than the traditional, intensely selected breeds. I know of one natural meat distributor that will not allow them because of tougher meat(they don't have the internal muscling of say a Duroc) and they also have small, kidney shaped loins. I'd like to say it isn't true, but I have cut too many of them up on the kitchen table. And they are much harder to keep in on an electric fence. HOWEVER, they will survive in conditions and on feed that should give them the title of the low input hog machine. They are as suited today as they were for their role in the orchards of England last century as scavenger animals. I have crossbreds available that would make an excellent addition to an organic orchard to clean up the dropped fruit so diseases aren't carried over to the following season. So far, I have never sold a single one for this reason. I think that is a shame. I don't think we can afford to lose them and therefore I will also raise a few in my breed rotation. In the long term they are going to need to have a commercial use to justify their existence. Its obvious that with the current hog market that this farm cannot justify them long term for philosophical reasons! Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com ---------- > From: holocene@juno.com > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: pigs - traditional breeds > Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 2:46 PM > > I am intrigued to know if there is much debate in American sustainable > agricultural circles re the advantages of maintaining traditional (and > all too frequently, rare) breeds of livestock? The question about pigs > brought this to mind, as I remembered how lucky we felt when we had a > small farm in the UK and found that in a neighboring village there was a > Gloucester Old Spot boar ready and eager to service our Old Spot sow. > These fabulous pigs are tough, hardy, good out door pigs, nearly lost in > the enthusiasm about the new wonder pigs, but now slowly making a > comeback, thanks largely to backyard farmer enthusiasm. WHo knows when we > will need these traits again, especially when/if we shift to more > integrated farming with animals filling ecological niches in land > management.. > > Similar to the reminder that GMO's don't just affect plants, neither does > loss of biodiversity on the farm. > > Cheers, Jo Tippett > > Holocene Design -helps you and your organization understand and apply > sustainable development and learn skills to design innovative solutions. > > http://www.holocene.net > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 08:20:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01045 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:20:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA04815 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:22:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA04804 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp190.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.190]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA22472; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:24:45 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:51:10 -0400 To: Mark , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Daniel Worley Subject: Re: The return of prison labor (a long musing followed by a few short articles) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990322114525.00796460@crocker.com> References: <199903122218.RAA20682@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 141 At 11:45 3/22/99 -0500, Mark wrote: >But back to exploitation (which Marx defined simply as the act of an owner >keeping the surplus value generated by a worker's efforts). Exploitation >is the foundation of all economic activity, including farming. Karl Marx is not a "Hero" I would want to be quoting! In every country where his theories and ideas were implemented or were even tried and discarded, the level of "exploitation" was much more severe than any you will find in any capitalistic society. The key difference between a free "exploited" worker who may be underpaid and a prisoner who almost surely will be underpaid, is the free worker has the option of quitting and finding other work. That may not always be practical, but it is an option that is technically available. Capitalism may not be a great system, but it is the best that has been devised by man thus far. And in its pure form, it is based on a worker being paid "an honest day's pay for an honest day's work". The capitalist (owner) who puts his/her money at risk investing it in what ever venture, deserves a reasonable profit for his investment and effort. A lot of people have attempted over the years to define "reasonable" in the above context and have come up short. I do not intend to go there myself. I will say that any exploitation of prison labor for private profit is unreasonable. And it certainly has no place in sustainable agriculture. --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- dan.worley@mindless.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 08:20:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01050 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:20:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA04818 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:22:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA04805 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp190.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.190]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA22560 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:25:04 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:00:54 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-21; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id HAA04810 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 142 [Reposted with permission] I have been away for a few days. Here are the updates Richard ....... FOCUS-UK waiters must know if foods contain GMOs March 19, 1999 LONDON, Reuters [WS] via NewsEdge Corporation : British waiters will have to be able to tell diners whether their food contains genetically modified soya or maize, under new rules announced on Thursday by food safety minister Jeff Rooker. And if they cannot, their employers in any of some 125,000 catering establishments of various types, from hot-dog stands to the most expensive restaurant in Britain, face fines of up to 5,000 pounds, Rooker said. The same fine is imposed on food shops if they fail to label according to the EU rules. ``We don't think it's impractical,'' Rooker told a news conference at the ministry of agriculture. ``If a customer wants to ask if any ingredients have been genetically modified then they ought to be able to answer,'' he said. .......... U.S. urges EU to speed up GM crop approvals March 19, 1999 BRUSSELS, Reuters [WS] via NewsEdge Corporation : The European Union must act swiftly to improve its approval system for genetically modified crops which is losing U.S. firms millions of dollars, Richard Rominger, Deputy U.S. Secretary of Agriculture, said on Thursday. ``For the U.S., in the short term, the EU's lengthy, complex process costs us money -- about $200 million last year in lost exports to Spain, Portugal and other EU members,'' Rominger told a Brussels conference on GMOs. ...... FOCUS-Euro stores link to seek non-modified foods By Richard Meares LONDON, March 17 (Reuters) - Major European supermarkets, fighting U.S. refusal to say if foods are genetically modified, set up a consortium on Wednesday to ensure no such ingredients make it into their own-label products. Britain's J.Sainsbury Plc said it had formed the organisation with six other European supermarket groups to weed genetically modified (GM) foods out of any stage of production. By establishing verified non-GM sources in the farmers' field and ensuring segregation through the supply chain, we will be GM-free," it said in a statement. "This move will enable Sainsbury's to eliminate all GM ingredients from its own-label products in response to customer demand for GM-free foods." The environmentalist group Greenpeace hoped other retailers would follow suit, saying:. "This is the beginning of the end of trying to force-feed consumers unwanted and unneeded genetically manipulated food." The consortium includes Britain's Marks & Spencer, Carrefour of France, Delhaize of Belgium, Italy's Effelunga, Swiss Migros and Superquinn of Ireland. ........ Restaurants must declare any GM food The Daily Telegraph, London 18 March 1999 RESTAURANTS and cafes will be forced to tell their customers about any genetically modified ingredients contained in their food under measures to be announced by the Government today. It is expected that declarations will have to be made on menus. Bakers and delicatessens will also have to comply with the new labelling controls, which will exceed current European Union requirements. At present EU labelling regulations lay down that all foods sold in shops and supermarkets must be clearly marked if they contain more than two per cent of GM ingredients. The move follows an announcement this week that Marks & Spencer is to ban all genetically modified food from its shelves. ......... Daily Telegraph 19.3.99 UK Fines for failing to declare GM food attacked By David Brown, Agriculture Editor CAFES and restaurants will be fined up to 5,000 if they fail to tell customers that they are serving genetically modified food, the Government announced yesterday. The measures - the first of their kind in the European Union - will come into force today. Under the Food Labelling (Amendment) Regulations 1999, trading standards officers will have the power to check bakers, delicatessens and other establishments, including hot dog stands, to make sure they declare genetically modified ingredients. But the move, forecast in The Telegraph yesterday, was immediately denounced as "a con" by environmental groups who said it did not go far enough to guarantee proper choice for consumers. Restaurateurs said it would be too difficult to enforce. The powers, announced by Jeff Rooker, the food safety minister, cover only foods containing genetically modified soya and maize. They do not cover derivatives of GM soya and maize including oils which are used in a wide range of food processes including chocolate. This is because, Mr Rooker explained, they are not covered by EU regulations. ........... posted by Paul Davis UK Daily Mail 16 March 99 A million mutant animals used in GM experiments By SEAN POULTER Consumer Affairs Correspondent MORE than one million animals have been genetic modified for use in British laboratory experiments in the past four years. The bulk of the research involved mice and rats and was carried out in the hope of medical breakthroughs. Scientists however have also started creating genetically modified animals which could be farmed for food. Pigs, cattle, sheep, chicken and fish are being altered so they grow faster, are bigger and produce more young. While advocates of the technology point to the potential benefits in the field of medicine, the possibility of clones and other GM animals being used in farming can only fuel the already intense debate over genetically modified foods. The most recent statistics show 353,000 GM animals were used in experiments in 1997, a 17 per cent increase on the 303,000 in 1996 and more than 60 per cent up on the 215,308 1995. ....... Thursday March 18, 6:30 pm Eastern Time Brazil state threatens to destroy Monsanto soy By Phil Stewart SAO PAULO, March 18 (Reuters) - Brazil's major soybean producing state of Rio Grande do Sul is threatening to destroy genetically-modified soybeans grown on a test plot by the local unit of U.S. biotechnology giant Monsanto Co. (NYSE:MTC - news). ``The soybean area will be destroyed by the end of the month if they continue in violation of state law,'' the state's Agriculture Secretary Jose Hermeto Hoffamann told Reuters. Rio Grande do Sul, which aims to sell soybeans to European consumers opposed to transgenics, accused the multinational of breaking a new, March 3 state law by failing to provide an environmental risk analysis for the 435-hectare test plot. ...... France's Auchan Joins Drive To Weed Out GM Foods PARIS (Reuters) - French retailers say they have led the way in the drive among European supermarkets to root out genetically modified foods from among their own-brand products. Spurred on by a fresh wave of consumer concern, family-owned Auchan Friday added its name to a list of European retailers who are outlawing genetic engineering in their own-brand food. Both Auchan and rival Carrefour say a policy of eradicating GM ingredients from their own products, as heralded by Britain's J. Sainsbury Plc this week, has been in place in their supply chains for over a year. ...... SUPERMARKETS SAY FOOD LABELLING ``DOES NOT GO FAR ENOU PA News 19.03.99 03:49 Major supermarket chains have vowed to inform consumers about any GM ingredients in their products after declaring that new Government labelling laws on genetically modified foods do not go far enough. The move came after the Government announced yesterday it was extending existing European Union rules on GM labelling to cover the catering trade. Diners eating out at restaurants, cafes and even burger bars will be told if the food they are eating contains GM ingredients. The Government said new powers enforcing EU regulations on the labelling of GM food will include fines of up to 5,000 for anyone breaching the rules and will be extended to cover the catering industry. After the announcement the UK's major food retailers - including the supermarket chains M&S, Sainsbury's, Safeway, Tesco, Asda, Somerfield, Waitrose and Morrison's - said they would now adopt a policy of labelling all GM derivatives. The British Retail Consortium, which represents 90% of UK retailers, issued a statement on behalf of its members stating that the decision had been made because the Government legislation did not go far enough to help consumers. The BRC said retailers had introduced GM labelling long before yesterday's announcement and the supermarkets had been looking into the possibility of extending this to GM derivatives for some time. The major supermarkets said they will label GM soya and maize derivatives in all their own-brand foods although it is not clear how long this process will take. ....... UK Observer 21 March 99 Iceland sales rise 9 per cent after the ban on GM foods By Ben Laurance Sunday March 21, 1999 Food retailer Iceland is expected this week to unveil sales figures showing that it is reaping big sales increases in the wake of its stand against genetically modified foods. Iceland last year launched a drive to ensure that nothing it sold contained GM ingredients. Other, larger, food retailing groups have subsequently said they will try to phase out GM ingredients from their merchandise. Iceland is expected this week to publish figures showing that its like-for-like sales - that is sales excluding the effect of opening new stores - have been around 9 per cent higher in the first 10 weeks of 1999 than they were a year earlier. The [other] major supermarket chains have shown far more modest sales increases, according to recent information. Sainsbury's like-for-like sales were up 1.5 per cent over Christmas; Tesco's increase was 3.1 per cent and Safeway's 3 per cent. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 08:30:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01186 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:30:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA04819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:22:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA04811 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:22:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp190.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.190]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA22582 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:25:08 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:23:41 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN-3-22; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 [Reposted with permission] So why all the fuss over GE Foods? by Jill Davies - - March 16, 1999 >From the Sanders County Ledger, Thompson Falls, Montana March 18, 1999 Why are foreign countries ready to start trade wars with the U.S. over the import of genetically engineered (GE) foods? First, it is because of what goes in to the creation of a GE variety. Plants have elaborate defense mechanisms for dealing with foreign compounds, including foreign DNA. To overcome these defense mechanisms in order to insert a gene into the germ cell of a host plant, which will then grow into a plant with the desired trait, biologists have to construct what are called "vectors" which will carry the chosen gene into the host cell. The vectors are constructed using pieces of DNA taken from virulent pathological organisms (virus, bacteria) because these organisms have the ability to overcome a cell's defense mechanisms. Generally, there are three parts to a vector: genes which carry the package into the cell and invade the DNA, genes called promoters which assure that the package is 'turned on', and genes for antibiotic resistance that are used as markers to help the biologist find the plant cells in which the insertion has been successful (a small percentage). The concern is that these sections of DNA from pathological organisms will recombine to form active pathogens once again, either new ones, or old ones with renewed virulence, or with new (broader) host specificity; and that antibiotic resistance will continue to spread throughout the microbial world. This process, called "horizontal gene transfer" is already known to be the cause of the widespread antibiotic resistance in disease organisms that has emerged in the past decade, facilitated by the over-use of antibiotics. Second, it is because the insertion of this gene package - a complex vector with the trait gene attached - into the DNA of the host plant can disrupt the functioning of the host's DNA. This can and does lead to 'freak' plants which supposedly are weeded out by the biotech company, but subtle chemical changes would be very difficult to detect, and the testing that is currently required is inadequate. What ignited the controversy last month in Britain, was the disclosure of a study (after it had been suppressed for 6 months) which tested GE potatoes that were engineered to express an insect toxin. This study was the first to carefully examine the chemical composition of the GE potatoes as compared to the regular potatoes. They found significant differences in levels of protein (20% less), starch, sugar, other enzymes. Then they fed the potatoes to young rats for a time and examined the development of organs. They found impaired development in the intestine, pancreas, kidneys, liver, lungs and brain; an enlarged thymus, and a depressed immune response with evidence of intestinal infection. Third, it is because people don't want to eat a plant that expresses an insecticide in every cell, or a plant that can resist an herbicide so that more of the herbicide is sprayed on the field while the plant is growing, and these are what are now being widely grown. Corn, cotton and potatoes are engineered to express the Bt insecticide and soy is resistant to Monsanto's Roundup. contact info: Jill Davies ~~~ River Care ........ Thu, Mar 18, 1999 Monsanto Dairy Hormone May Be Carcinogenic -EU Vet Committee LONDON (Dow Jones)--Milk from cows treated with a synthetic hormone produced by U.S.-based firms Monsanto Corp. (MTC) and Eli-Lily & Co. (LLY) may cause cancer, a key European Union veterinary committee has said. Use of the hormone in dairy cows could also foster resistance to antibiotics and induce allergic reactions in humans, according to the E.U. Scientific Committee on Veterinary Measures Relating to Public Health. The doubt cast upon the safety of synthetic bovine somatotropin (BST) by the E.U.-appointed scientists could mean the E.U. Commission will not lift the ban on sale of the product later this year. The ban on synthetic BST was imposed by the E.U. Commission some years ago due to similar health concerns. The E.U. scientists made their statement in a summary of a report obtained by Dow Jones Newswires Thursday. The full report is due to be published within the next few days. The E.U. Commission will debate the report and use it as a basis for its decision on whether to renew the E.U. ban on synthetic BST. The deadline for renewal of the ban is Dec. 31, 1999. Synthetic BST, which stimulates milk production in dairy cows, is produced by inserting genes from cows into microscopic organisms, which then reproduce the hormone. It is widely used in U.S. dairy herds. Injection of the synthetic hormone into cows could mean consumers are exposed to "an increased relative risk of breast and prostate cancer" it was stated in the summary report. The E.U. scientists said also that the increased use of antibiotics in cows treated with synthetic BST could lead to those antibiotics finding their way into milk and could foster the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. As the use of synthetic BST increases the risk of cows developing mastitis, a disease which causes the deterioration of cows' udders, cows treated with the hormone are typically given extra doses of antibiotics. An E.U. Commission agriculture official declined to comment on what impact the report could have on E.U. policy but he did say the summary of the report was 'vague' in its conclusions. * By Daniel Balint-Kurti 44-171-832-9561; daniel.balint-kurti@cor.dowjones.com (END) DOW JONES NEWS 03-18-99 12:05 PM ....... Sunday Independent 21 March 99 Super-viruses threat to farms By Marie Woolf, Political Correspondent Genetically engineered crops, altered to be resistant to common plant viruses, risk creating new mutant strains of "super-viruses" which could wipe out entire farms, a damning research report commissioned by the Government has warned. The report, ordered under the Government's Genetically Modified Organisms Research Programme, has found that plants engineered to be resistant to common viruses could in fact lead to the creation of more virulent strains which could spread throughout the British countryside. The report, prepared for the Department of the Environment by the Scottish Crop Institute, has been seized on by ecological campaigners as evidence that the countryside could be irrevocably damaged by introducing GM crops. The report says that there is insufficient research to determine the long-term effects of introducing viral resistance. Environmentalists fear that indigenous plants could be wiped out by the new viruses created by genetic engineering. ....... International Scientific Committee Warns of Serious Risks of Breast and Prostate Cancer from Monsanto`s Hormonal Milk March 22, 1999 CHICAGO, March 21 /PRNewswire/ via NewsEdge Corporation -- The following was released today by Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Professor Environmental Medicine, University of Illinois School of Public Health and Chairman of The Cancer Prevention Coalition: The European Commission (EC) has just released a report by its authoritative international 16-member scientific committee, based on meticulous scientific documentation, confirming excess levels of the naturally occurring Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) in milk of cows injected with Monsanto's biotech hormone (rBGH). The report concludes that the excess levels of IGF-1 pose serious risks of breast and prostate cancer. "Experimental evidence for an association between IGF-1 and breast and prostate cancer is supported by epidemiological -- evidence arising from recently published cohort studies -- . " The report also warns that excess levels of IGF-1 may promote the growth and invasiveness of any cancer by inhibiting programmed self-destruction of cancer cells (apoptosis), and that contamination of milk with residues of antibiotics used to treat mastitis in rBGH cows is likely to spread antibiotic resistant infections in the general population. The EC human health report finally emphasized the need for additional investigation of several other potential risks of rBGH milk. A parallel EC report also warns of serious veterinary risks of rBGH. It may be noted that FDA has ignored such evidence reported in detail by the author in peer reviewed scientific publications over the last decade. The EC warnings are in sharp conflict with the policies of the Food and Drug Administration, largely based on unpublished and confidential Monsanto claims, that hormonal milk is safe. As seriously, the report raises serious questions on the competence and conflicts of interest of Codex, the WHO organization responsible for setting international food safety standards, which has given an unqualified clean bill of health to rBGH milk. It should further be emphasized that senior FDA officials and industry consultants are members of Codex, which meets in secrecy and relies on unpublished industry assurances of safety. Interlocking relationships between U.S. and Canadian regulatory officials and Codex are matters of critical concern to U.S. consumers and global food safety. Faced with escalating rates of >breast and prostate cancers, besides other avoidable public health hazards, FDA should immediately withdraw its approval of rBGH milk whose sale benefits only Monsanto while posing major public health risks for the entire U.S. population. A Congressional investigation of FDA's abdication of >responsibility and of its reliance on Codex authority for food safety, analogous to that recently conducted on rBGH milk by the Canadian Parliament, is well overdue. SOURCE Dr. Samuel S. Epstein CONTACT: Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Professor of Environmental Medicine, University of Illinois School of Public Health, Chicago, and Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition, 312-996-2297/ _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 09:01:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01594 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:01:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA00805 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:03:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00709 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:03:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.mntm.org (ns.mntm.org [209.18.254.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA21842 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:03:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from rrc2.rrcnet.org (rrc2.rrcnet.org [209.18.245.2]) by ns.mntm.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA09479 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:03:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from anp32.rrcnet.org by rrc2.rrcnet.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/11Jul96-0511PM) id AA14767; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:02:10 -0600 Message-Id: <9903241302.AA14767@rrc2.rrcnet.org> From: "Phil Batalden" To: "sanet" Subject: Rotations after RR soybeans Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:03:29 -0600 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 While attending a sustainable meeting someone mentioned that alfalfa could not be planted on land that had been planted to RR soybeans for 5 years. It was said that the alfalfa would not grow. Is that correct? Doesn,t sound right to me. Can anyone out there document this? If that is the case, people in transition should be aware of it, if they had planted gmo beans prior to starting transition. Thank you To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 11:23:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA03108 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA13168 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:14:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from foe.org (No.Such.Address.at.Essential.ORG [216.0.124.66] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA13137 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:14:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from FOE-Message_Server by foe.org with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:05:20 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:05:01 -0500 From: "valerie frances" To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: A New Perspective on Agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA13147 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 "When conditions are ripe for it, these suburban lots could quickly be developed into mini-farms, either as home-based businesses or as a source of much good food for the family living there. That sort of flexibility, coupled with broad-based ownership of prime agricultural land in the form of suburban lots, may turn out to be a very lucky and important break at a moment when we need one badly." This is certainly my personal plan. I am a devoted activist on one-hand living in the DC Area at the moment, but spent the last 3 years on a small organic farm. I miss it - but I hate long commutes from rural to urban areas, so over the next couple of years I hope to have my little farm in the city. Sidhe, Valerie Frances DC area To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 11:24:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA03118 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:24:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA02412 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:55:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02356 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:55:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23476 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:55:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from greg (tnt-11-12.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.156]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA22349; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:31:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199903241431.JAA22349@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Phil Batalden" , "sanet" Subject: Re: Rotations after RR soybeans Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:54:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 146 What would planting RR soybeans have to do with future alfalfa plantings? By the same arguement, couldn't we assume that alfalfa couldn't be planted on fields that had Roundup applications whether there were GMO's planted or not? Greg ---------- > From: Phil Batalden > To: sanet > Subject: Rotations after RR soybeans > Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 8:03 AM > > While attending a sustainable meeting someone mentioned that alfalfa could > not be planted on land that had been planted to RR soybeans for 5 years. It > was said that the alfalfa would not grow. Is that correct? Doesn,t sound > right to me. Can anyone out there document this? If that is the case, > people in transition should be aware of it, if they had planted gmo beans > prior to starting transition. > Thank you > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 11:52:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04742 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:52:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA12245 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:12:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA12190 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:12:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990324141352.23478.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.11.68.168] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:13:52 PST Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 06:13:52 -0800 (PST) From: Kate Smith Subject: pig talk To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 147 Forward from Wall Street Journal article... > > March 24, 1999 > A-hed > The Hog Farmers' Losses Put > A Butcher Shop on Knife-Edge > By CARL QUINTANILLA > Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL > > > HAUBSTADT, Ind. -- As farmers here saw hog prices plunge > to Depression-era lows this winter, they felt as if salt > were being rubbed in their wounds. For even as they were > losing heavily, somebody down the line -- big meatpackers > or supermarket chains -- seemed to be getting rich on > pigs: The price of pork at the supermarket was staying > about as high as ever. > > > Janet and Tom Dewig > > "These big companies are essentially saying, 'Your goods > are worth $20 -- we'll pay you $4,' " says Tom Dewig, a > local businessman. "That's what our farmers are going > through." > > He knows what he's talking about. His business is Dewig > Meats, a place where hogs waddle in the back, then are > displayed out front a few hours later as ham and sausage. > Mr. Dewig (pronounced DAY-wig) is a meatpacker and a meat > retailer, too. > > But he's not one of those "big companies," for whom > farmers' pain is assumed to be just an abstraction. Mr. > Dewig lives right here in Haubstadt. His delivery truck, > with a pink pig painted on the side, is a familiar sight > as it rumbles through this small town's streets. Dewig > Meats, run by Tom and Janet Dewig, even caters local > picnics. > > Rare Moment > > So what to do? On the one hand, the depressed hog market > presented the chance of a lifetime for them, a historic > "spread" between what they could buy pork for alive and > what they could sell it for dressed. But if the Dewigs > made a killing on this, they knew they were doing it off > the misfortune of hard-working rural neighbors, some of > them on the verge of bankruptcy. And other people would > know it, too. > > Then again, the Dewigs are hard-working themselves, and > they too have their dreams. The couple, both 52 years old, > wanted to expand and remodel the business. "It was > difficult," says Mr. Dewig, as he recalls the family's > deliberations over how to deal with local farmers when the > hog business first fell out of bed. "Prices were an > absolute bargain, but we also had to know in the back of > our head that if we weren't fair, we'd end up paying for > it." > > This isn't the kind of thing that much troubles a big, > publicly held company. It is different when, as Mr. Dewig > says, "I've got to live with these people." > > Except for the 175-year-old Log Inn, said to have once > served Abraham Lincoln, Dewig Meats is about the only > widely known business in Haubstadt, a town of 1,445 set > among the rolling hills of southern Indiana. Dewig has 50 > employees and close to $10 million in annual sales. But it > is also something of an anachronism. As a few companies > like IBP Inc., Excel, Smithfield Foods Inc. and the Swift > & Co. unit of ConAgra Inc. have grabbed most of the > hog-slaughter business, and as supermarket chains have > supplanted local butchers, the independent meat shop with > its own "kill floor" has been getting scarcer. Only about > 1,800 remain, and almost nobody is opening a new one. > Dewig Meats dates from 1916, when Tom's grandfather > started it. > > It is a place where locals take visitors, showing them > displays of special cuts and sausages made from local > livestock. Its following is loyal. "Nothing compares to > what those guys make," says Thomas Chamberlain, a South > Carolina resident who never visits his mother in Haubstadt > without buying a 10-pound box of the Dewigs' frozen > bratwursts to grill at home. > > The Dewigs have made a good living. Their home is a brick > estate with circular driveway, topiary and pig statues. > But they don't take their welcome for granted. Each June > they have a customer-appreciation day, selling bratwurst > for a quarter and giving proceeds to a hospital. ("They > hire extra people just to help park the cars," says City > Clerk Bonnie Wagner.) When the volunteer fire department's > oldest engine, a 1947 Ford, was about to be taken away by > a vintage-truck collector. Mr. Dewig bought it. He gives > schoolchildren rides in it. > > Mr. Dewig typically pays hog farmers the same price as > Excel, a Cargill Inc. unit and the nation's second-largest > meatpacker, which has a large plant down the road. Dewig > Meats can slaughter a mere 200 hogs a week, but some > farmers would rather sell to it than to Excel; that way > they know their produce is served on local dinner tables > and in restaurants. > > And selling to the Dewigs is more personal. The Excel > plant is a fortress-like edifice with a wire fence and > security guards at the gate. At Dewig Meats, a farmer > dropping off livestock can sip coffee with the proprietors > while watching his hogs amble off trailers. (Their next > stop is the kill floor, where a bolt of electricity to the > head kills them, after which half a dozen workers with > knives set to work.) > > The loyalty is such that when hog prices rose two years > ago to a lofty 63 cents a pound, a few farmers offered to > sell to Dewig Meats for about 60 cents. Mr. Dewig wouldn't > accept the discount. "No matter what I said, I couldn't > make him do it," says Joe Knapp, a farmer. "I know he was > losing money on that pork." Large packers also took a > beating in that period. > > That price spike helped fuel a nationwide hog-herd > overexpansion, which began to depress prices last summer. > By August, prices hovered at 30 cents a pound, or about > five cents less than break-even for most growers. > > At his meat shop, Mr. Dewig rushed to a monitor each > morning to check the price of hogs, unable to believe his > eyes. "We'd sit there and look at the thing and say, 'It > can't go any lower.' But it did," he says, shaking his > head. "The next day, we'd say, 'It can't go any lower.' > But it did again." > > Mr. Dewig had always said that no hog should sell for less > than 30 cents a pound. So when the market price dipped > into the mid-20s in September and October, he continued > paying farmers 30, knowing that even at that price, he > could profit handily. By Halloween, though, the price > farmers could get elsewhere was down almost to 20 cents. > Mr. Dewig finally broke his rule and started paying less > than 30 cents. "I lowered my standards," he says. > > When the market price fell into the teens, Mr. Dewig set > himself a new floor: 20 cents a pound. But then, in > mid-December, prices briefly dipped below 10 cents a pound > -- about a 60-year low -- and Mr. Dewig lowered his > standards yet again. Still, on a day when the Excel plant > was offering farmers 11.5 cents a pound, Mr. Dewig offered > a nickel more. > > Losing Big > > Like hog growers all across America, farmers around > Haubstadt were losing megabucks. A 240-pound market-weight > hog that would have brought $140 or so a few years ago was > at one point worth only $25 or $30. Farmers were losing > roughly $50 a head, just when the profitability had > vanished from virtually everything else they could raise. > > But IBP Inc., acquiring hogs at this depressed price, saw > its profits quadruple in the fourth quarter. Besides the > low hog prices, packers benefited from being able to run > their plants at full capacity, and thus efficiently. > Packers lowered wholesale prices somewhat, but they by no > means passed along all their savings. > > Meanwhile, supermarkets, although they had room to cut > pork prices, had scant competitive reason to do so. For > one thing, food shoppers are chiefly sensitive to price > increases, not to price cuts. And in this case, even if > price cuts did spur demand, supermarkets couldn't obtain > more pork to sell, because the packers couldn't kill hogs > any faster. Both industries reject farmers' suspicions of > collusion. > > The Dewigs also fared well: They had the best fourth > quarter in their history. "Our margins went up because > costs were low-plain and simple," Mr. Dewig says. > > He and his wife started celebrating: Pursuing their dream > of expansion, they put $300,000 into new freezers and > slaughtering equipment. They are planning a $1.6 million > improvement to the store's retail front, expanding the > 60-foot refrigerator case, which holds a mother lode of > rib-eye steaks, pork chops and smoked jowl. This month, > the Dewigs missed the installation of a new smokehouse > because they were on a cruise to Barbados. The meat > business "has been good to me," Mr. Dewig says. "Real, > real good." > > 'Good Guy' > > For his hog-farmer neighbors, the above-market prices > Dewig Meats paid helped ease both losses and resentment. > "He's fair," says Ray Rexing, who has sold hogs to Mr. > Dewig since 1970. > > Mr. Knapp is of two minds. Mr. Dewig "understands we're > losing our a___ and he's making money faster than he can > rake it in," the farmer says. But the next moment, he > recalls the losses Mr. Dewig himself took two or three > years ago when hog farmers were doing well, and calls him > a "dang good guy." > > Talk of farmers throwing their hands in the air in > frustration elicits only understanding from Mr. Dewig. > "Where would your hands be?" he says. "Some were out of > humor, and rightfully so." Still, inside the shop, > farmers' plight has created tension with customers, who > sometimes "look at you like it was your fault," says Mrs. > Dewig. > > To convince farmers of its support, Dewig Meats advertised > that it would sell pork items at special prices every > week. One week, while supermarkets charged $1.99 a pound > for pork loin, Dewig Meats sold it for 99 cents. "I've > never heard of anyone else doing 99 cents a pound," says > Steve Pohl, another local farmer. > > Hog prices have rebounded a bit. Some economists expect > them to get back above 35 cents a pound later this year, > which would narrow farmers' losses and meatpackers' and > meat retailers' profits. Mr. Dewig says nothing will have > changed between him and his suppliers, some of them > friends since grade school. He says he is pleased with > "the way I've treated these farmers. ... And I'm sure they > are, too." > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > URL for this Article: > http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/retrieve.cgi?id=SB922228266738209342.djm > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Copyright 1999 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights > Reserved. > Printing, distribution, and use of this material is > governed by your Subscription Agreement and copyright > laws. > === ------------------ Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 609-234-9200 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 11:56:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04927 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:56:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16721 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:00:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16701 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:00:34 -0500 (EST) From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Received: from earthlink.net (ip204.laurel.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.235.204]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18386 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:00:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F90C15.BAAE936B@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:00:25 -0500 Reply-To: gardenbetty@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag List Subject: Re: Marx, let each choose her own heroes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 148 Dan Worley wrote: >Karl Marx is not a "Hero" I would want to be quoting! In every country >where his theories and ideas were implemented or were even tried and >discarded, the level of "exploitation" was much more severe than any you >will find in any capitalistic society. While the largest implementation of Marx's theories left much to be desired, it does not logically follow that the essential idea was flawed. In fact, everywhere his ideas where tried, the "ruling parties" (which in itself is antithetical to true communism) never let social equality and collective economics really happen. It was forced upon many, without their input, which is also antithetical to an egalitarian society. To my mind, Marxism and communism have never truly happened on a national scale. However, the threat that they might was enough to create the Red Scare, the Arms Race, the Cold War, and other nasty skeletons in our collective national closet. It seems there might be greater exploitation in fighting communism than in letting it truly come to fruition. However on a local scale, cooperative economics have a long history of success, longer in fact than capitalism. Without trying to spark another debate on capitalism, it seems that capitalism is inherently unsustainable and will ultimately be short-lived (in human history terms) because of (as John Ikerd so eloquently pointed out) its failure to take full cost accounting and to assign true value to our environment, relationships, resources and labor. You can witness this unsustainability manifested all around you. As to alternatives: Barter, for example, is more widespread in my neck of the woods than capital exchange. May I also point out Ithaca Hours and the LETS system. Also the flourishing intentional secular and religious communities movement which has functioned largely outside of the capitalist system for over a century. And the worker-owned cooperatives that have existed globally for a very long time. Worker-owned cooperatives are showing a reemergence here, in fact. Many announcements of such forming have crossed my desk in the past two years or so. I have worked on two in my life; one that publishes a monthly newsjournal in D.C. and another that sews organic cotton clothing. Now I live and work developing cooperative, diversified, agrarian businesses, in the city and on our own land. I should also add that I live in an intentional secular community, a "commune;" we have our own consensus-based economy which extends outward to the larger farm community we live in. We collaborate on all business decisions, barter eggs, honey, veggies, fruit, medicinal herbs, carpentry services, machine repair, you name it. When we do use money, $10 per hour is the common standard for all skilled work (that means farming, among other things), no more, no less. This doesn't mean that we don't participate in the capitalist system at allthat would be impossible living in the US! What it does mean is that we are shifting the paradigm in our own homes and communities based upon models and theories (including Marx) available to us, and so far (the past 25 years) it has been an unmitigated success. I don't think I want to work "under" or "over" anyone again. Even in the most benign of ways. My personal hero is Emma Goldman ;) -- dawn aka gardenbetty We will be known by the tracks we leave behind... Dakota proverb To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 11:57:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04993 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:57:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA26869 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:29:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26842 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:29:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [129.2.68.82] (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id KAA01307; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:29:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:29:24 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: vberton@pop.wam.umd.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: vberton@wam.umd.edu (Valerie Berton) Subject: Fwd: Keep America Growing Conference Announcement Cc: sdavis@farmland.org Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 149 > CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT > KEEP AMERICA GROWING CONFERENCE: > BALANCING WORKING LANDS AND DEVELOPMENT > June 6-9, 1999 > Philadelphia, PA > >A cross section of public officials and professionals from fields as >diverse as transportation, rural and urban development, agricultural, >ranching, forestry, housing, and environmental conservation will join >together for Keep America Growing, a conference dedicated to striking >the balance between working lands and development. The conference, >which will be held June 6-9, 1999 at the Adams Mark Hotel in >Philadelphia, presents a unique opportunity to define a common agenda >between people whose paths might not normally cross. > >Keep America Growing will feature over 150 presentations on land use >issues including keynote and panel addresses by nationally acclaimed >experts in growth management. Participants from across the country will >network and share ideas on topics such as land use and population >trends, the impact of unplanned growth, successful programs that balance >development and land use, and the urban-rural connection. Participants >will walk away with the necessary tools and networks to take action in >their own communities. > >Speakers include leaders from the fields of policy, agriculture, >conservation, development and politics. Invited speakers include Vice >President Al Gore, New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman, >Pennsylvania Governor Thomas Ridge, and other nationally known leaders. > >The conference also will offer regional workshops facilitated by The >Pinchot Institute for Conservation to understand issues on a regional >basis and to promote networking. The conference begins on Sunday with 10 >pre-conference technical and recreational field trips. > >For complete information and latest updates, visit the conference >website at www.farmland.org/KAG.html. Visit the website or contact Cindy >Delaney at 802-655-7769 or by e-mail at delaney@together.net , to >request a conference registration brochure. To register, visit the >website or click 'registration form', print it, and mail it in, or fill >out the registration brochure. > >The conference provides an excellent forum to display new >industry-related products and information. A number of exhibit and >sponsorship opportunities are still available. To find out how you can >get involved contact Cindy Delaney at 802-655-7769 or by e-mail at >delaney@together.net. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 13:22:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07419 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:22:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08350 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:49:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08313 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:49:38 -0500 (EST) From: DGreen47@aol.com Received: from DGreen47@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7VFWa13701 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:47:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <94586c0c.36f90921@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:47:45 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Homesteading Workshop Weekend Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 150 WHEN: June 18-20, 1999 WHERE: Ash Grove Community Farm, Corning NY WHAT: Buncha workshops. Want to teach one? I've got professionals coming in, too. I'll teach some, but not all! Possible workshops include the following. Vote now! Fencing Field Shelters Goats Poultry Grants CSA Creation & Maintenance Organic gardening Certification Marketing Wildcrafting Garden structures Old house repair Making herbal products Private-label sales Farm markets Market gardening (not always the same as organic gardening) Instant garden with permanent raised beds Agro-forestry Animal rescue Field trips to a meat goat farm, Draper Super Bee Apiary, a goat dairy, a cement statue manufacturer, a u-pick strawberry farm (ice cream, anyone?) and a very successful diversified farm/greenhouse/ice cream parlor business. If it's worth an extra $10 to enough folks, I can hire my friend Ed and his team to take y'all on the one-hour "around the block" tour. He requires $300 for an afternoon (includes all of the exhorbitant insurances). Anybody who takes the accommodations option and wishes to do so may add a day or two to the beginning or end of the weekend for $50 per day (including meals), in order to enjoy the many attractions of this area. We need to know right away if folks want to do this. If we get at least ten (and they have room), accommodations will be at Watson Homestead Conference and Retreat Center near Corning. If they're full by the time we get their minimum number assembled, we'll find someplace else -- we're blessed with quite a few options! HOW MUCH: $200 with meals and hotel-type accommodations Fri. & Sat. nights $150 with meals and hotel-type accommodations Sat. night only $100 with meals if you find your own accommodations $50 if you find your own accommodations and provide own meals $100 deposit required ASAP to reserve accommodations. Dori Green Ash Grove Community Farm & Center for Sustainable Living Corning, NY http://www.agrove.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 13:45:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08146 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:45:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA28807 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:14:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28726 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:14:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27946 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:14:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-28.nidlink.com [216.18.141.35]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA08858 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:14:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990324173738.0095fe6c@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:37:38 -0800 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: RR Beans, Alfalfa and Plant Back Restrictions Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 151 There are no crop rotation or plant back restrictions associated with any uses of Roundup, whether with a GMO variety or not. Roundup breaks down quickly and is not persistent, which is why it must be applied two or three times in most RR systems. The information on restrictions against planting alfalfa (or many other rotation crops, cover crops and grasses/legumes) probably was in reference to imidazolinone or sulfonylurea resistant corn or beans varieties. These products typically have a 12 month or more crop rotation restriction, in some cases, much more (see below). Some major soybean herbicides by class associated with GMOs and some of the crop-rotation or plant-back restrictions are briefly reviewed below. Soybean herbicide percent acres treated data are from USDA/NASS, for 1997. Plant back, crop rotation restrictions are from pages 143 to 168, section on soybeans, in "Weed Control Manual," Meister publication, Vol. 31, 1998. Sulfonylureas Chlorimuron-ethyl (Classic), 13% national soybean acres treated. Plant back depends on soil Ph and region, have to see the label, but is surely 12 to 24 months or longer for most crops. Sulfentrazone+chlorimuron-ethyl (Authority), new product, market-share unknown. Canola, beets, 30 months. Alfalfa, sorghum, 42 months. (Recall one reason the low doses work is because of the chemical' persistence; persistence=longer plant back restrictions, and more undiagnosed (and diagnosed) crop injury when, for one reason or another, herbicide residues in the soil take longer to break down than "normal"). Sulfentrazone (Cover). New product. Alfalfa, 12 months. Many other crops 12-18 months, and rest, 30 months. Imidazolinone Imazaquin (Scepter), 13% acres treated. Most crops, 18 months (include alfalfa). Sugar beets, 24 months. Imazethapyr (Pursuit), 38% acres treated (average rate of only 0.05 pounds a.i. per acre). Potatoes, 26 months. Sweet corn, 18 months. All other crops 40 months after application. (So much for cover crops, small grain rotations, alfalfa, etc, on 1/3 of soybean acres). Clomazone (Command). 5% acres treated. No crop rotation until 16 months after planting in Northern U.S., 12 months elsewhere. Clearly, some herbicide tolerant plant varieties are going to cause some serious localized problems. Application rates tend to be a bit higher, and repeat applications are much more common in herbicide tolerant programs. One reason -- herbicide/GMO-seed companies are, in effect, guaranteeing "satisfactory" weed control, and give growers the chemical needed for later season resprays. These extend the crop rotation restrictions, but more worrisome, can lead to runoff following an early summer thunderstorm. Imagine what a little of these herbicides will do to that nice new grassed waterway, or grass filter strip, half or 3/4 paid for with public dollars, as runoff flows over the newly established grass stand. Also, expanded use of these technologies will lead to more problems among neighbors when either drift, runoff, or volatization (and drift) lead to herbicide injury in nearby fields. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 13:50:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08323 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:50:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09352 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:39:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com (hil-img-8.compuserve.com [149.174.177.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09289 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:39:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id LAA24175 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:38:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:35:26 -0500 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Deserves a profit? To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199903241138_MC2-6F19-7E3F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 152 Daniel wrote " The capitalist (owner) who puts his/her money at risk investing it in what ever venture, deserves a reasonable profit for his investment and effort." What ever venture? Guns, drugs, tobacco, nuclear energy, agricultural and societal poisons, perverted entertainment and junk food? How does anyone DESERVE a reasonable profit on those ventures? It is in choosing what we will do and what we will not do that we can make a reasonable future. Unless we include social and health (human and ecosystem) costs and Second Law efficiency along with economic considerations, capitalism (especially when corporate-controlled and government-subsidized) looks to be terminally destructive. Bill Duesing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 13:59:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08487 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13121 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13070 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-67ppp235.epix.net [199.224.67.235]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id LAA13754; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F91846.4410FD46@epix.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:52:22 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: valerie frances CC: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: A New Perspective on Agriculture References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 153 valerie frances wrote: > "When conditions are ripe for it, these suburban lots could quickly be > developed into mini-farms, either as home-based businesses or as a > source of much good food for the family living there. That sort of > flexibility, coupled with broad-based ownership of prime agricultural > land in the form of suburban lots, may turn out to be a very lucky and > important break at a moment when we need one badly." > Anyone interested in seeing this type of agriculture first hand should go to Japan. I was there a year ago and was amazed at the intensity of food producing plots. Not a single square foot is wasted! Even in the downtown areas in of Tokyo there were plots as small as 4x5 ft that had veggies growing in them. There is no grass for yards *anywhere* near the population centers. It is considered a waste of resourses not to grow food in open spaces. Even at major interchanges on the highways they have planted the whole area in vegetables. Steve Groff. -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 19:23:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17140 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA05892 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:17:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05790 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA21944; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:14:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-37.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.37) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021904; Wed Mar 24 17:14:12 1999 Message-ID: <00a201be764b$cad2f400$25f96ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "valerie frances" Cc: Subject: Re: A New Perspective on Agriculture Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:12:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 154 >I think more people in suburbia should grow their own garden, they'd probably be amazed at how good everything taste. However as someone who owns a smallish big farm 85 acres located in suburbia I do not see farms being replaced by houses as a blessing. Keep in mind our 85 acres is about 1/2 1/2 open and wooded and is home to various wildlife including wet lands. I always feel very sad when I see a field replaced by houses. Beth > >valerie frances wrote: > >> "When conditions are ripe for it, these suburban lots could quickly be >> developed into mini-farms, either as home-based businesses or as a >> source of much good food for the family living there. That sort of >> flexibility, coupled with broad-based ownership of prime agricultural >> land in the form of suburban lots, may turn out to be a very lucky and >> important break at a moment when we need one badly." >> > >Anyone interested in seeing this type of agriculture first hand should go to Japan. I was there a year ago and was amazed at the intensity of food producing plots. Not a single square foot is wasted! Even in the downtown areas in of Tokyo there were plots as small as 4x5 ft that had veggies growing in >them. There is no grass for yards *anywhere* near the population centers. It is considered a waste of resourses not to grow food in open spaces. Even at major interchanges on the highways they have planted the whole area in vegetables. > >Steve Groff. >-- >"New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture >http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com >Steve Groff >Cedar Meadow Farm >679 Hilldale Rd >Holtwood PA 17532 USA >Ph. 717-284-5152 > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 24 21:05:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18955 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:05:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA20032 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:13:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA19933 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:13:45 -0500 (EST) From: gardenbetty@earthlink.net Received: from earthlink.net (ip111.laurel.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.235.111]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24377 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:13:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36F98DB4.F22EC3C1@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:13:25 -0500 Reply-To: gardenbetty@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag List Subject: Re: a new perspective on agriculture Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 155 valerie frances wrote: > "When conditions are ripe for it, these suburban lots could quickly be > developed into mini-farms, either as home-based businesses or as a > source of much good food for the family living there. That sort of > flexibility, coupled with broad-based ownership of prime agricultural > land in the form of suburban lots, may turn out to be a very lucky and > important break at a moment when we need one badly." > then steve groff wrote: >Anyone interested in seeing this type of agriculture first hand should go to Japan. I was >there a year ago and was amazed at the intensity of >food producing plots. Not a single square foot is wasted! Even in the downtown areas in >of Tokyo there were plots as small as 4x5 ft that had >veggies growing in them. There is no grass for yards *anywhere* near the population >centers. It is considered a waste of resourses not to grow food in open >spaces. Even at major interchanges on the highways they have planted the whole area in >vegetables. When I was in South Korea a few years ago the phenomenon was the same. Even at the gas stations, bitter melon grew on wires up the sides of the pumps! All public landscaping was edible and people cultivated in every square inch of available space they had access to. Old women would dry, grind and process chili peppers into paste right on the sidewalks! I felt like I had come to the gardeners mecca! Since N and S Korea are very mountainous and have little arable land, this urban agriculture is essential. I have seen statistics that say as much as 95% of all food is produced in the cities of Japan, Korea and China. In the US, that number is less than 1/2 of a %. Hmmmm... -- dawn aka gardenbetty We will be known by the tracks we leave behind... Dakota proverb To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 08:58:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25520 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:58:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA04083 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:50:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA03951 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:50:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp223.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.223]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA19274; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:53:28 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:45:11 -0400 To: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com>, SANET-mg From: Daniel Worley Subject: Re: Deserves a profit? In-Reply-To: <199903241138_MC2-6F19-7E3F@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 156 At 11:35 3/24/99 -0500, BILL DUESING wrote: >What ever venture? Guns, drugs, tobacco, nuclear energy, agricultural and >societal poisons, perverted entertainment and junk food? > >How does anyone DESERVE a reasonable profit on those ventures? I am not going to place myself in the position of deciding for the entire nation what business a person may or may not engage in. I have my own priorities and spend my money on those items I choose. If I have a problem with a specific product or product line, and I feel it is something so bad it should be banned, I can contact my representatives in government and lobby for the laws to be changed. But don't jump on my case for not being specific about the business type! Your interests might be better served by looking at what I was suggesting we attempt to ban; exploitation of prison labor. Exploitation of prison labor for the profit of any private business is immoral! Probably just as immoral as selling illicit drugs to grammar school kids. But, if as an adult, I should choose to use tobacco or alcohol (both of which were still legal the last time I checked), I don't want some "do-gooder" telling me I can't. And for those who think socialism is a better way than capitalism, I think you can now purchase an airline ticket to Cuba; one way. --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- dan.worley@mindless.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 10:12:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27213 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:12:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA22552 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:13:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22459 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:12:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04657 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:12:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from greg (tnt-13-13.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.205]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA30986; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:48:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199903251448.JAA30986@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: , "Charles Benbrook" Subject: Re: RR Beans, Alfalfa and Plant Back Restrictions Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:11:31 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 157 This post brings up a point that they were discussing on WGN radio, Chicago yesterday on the noon show. They were talking about the EPA potentially regulating GMO's. Now I can see in an instance that just because we put the chemical in the plant that it does not imply that it is safe. Is it surprising that they didn't see it that way on the radio? I was going to call them and ask does that mean it would be safe to genetically engineer a plant to produce 12 tons/acre of DDT? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com ---------- > From: Charles Benbrook > To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RR Beans, Alfalfa and Plant Back Restrictions > Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 12:37 PM > > There are no crop rotation or plant back restrictions associated > with any uses of Roundup, whether with a GMO variety or not. Roundup breaks > down quickly and is not persistent, which is why it must be applied two or > three times in most RR systems. > > The information on restrictions against planting alfalfa (or many > other rotation crops, cover crops and grasses/legumes) probably was in > reference to imidazolinone or sulfonylurea resistant corn or beans > varieties. These products typically have a 12 month or more crop rotation > restriction, in some cases, much more (see below). > > Some major soybean herbicides by class associated with GMOs and some > of the crop-rotation or plant-back restrictions are briefly reviewed below. > Soybean herbicide percent acres treated data are from USDA/NASS, for 1997. > Plant back, crop rotation restrictions are from pages 143 to 168, section on > soybeans, in "Weed Control Manual," Meister publication, Vol. 31, 1998. > > Sulfonylureas > > Chlorimuron-ethyl (Classic), 13% national soybean acres treated. Plant back > depends on soil Ph and region, have to see the label, but is surely 12 to 24 > months or longer for most crops. > > Sulfentrazone+chlorimuron-ethyl (Authority), new product, market-share > unknown. Canola, beets, 30 months. Alfalfa, sorghum, 42 months. (Recall > one reason the low doses work is because of the chemical' persistence; > persistence=longer plant back restrictions, and more undiagnosed (and > diagnosed) crop injury when, for one reason or another, herbicide residues > in the soil take longer to break down than "normal"). > > Sulfentrazone (Cover). New product. Alfalfa, 12 months. Many other crops > 12-18 months, and rest, 30 months. > > Imidazolinone > > Imazaquin (Scepter), 13% acres treated. Most crops, 18 months (include > alfalfa). Sugar beets, 24 months. > > Imazethapyr (Pursuit), 38% acres treated (average rate of only 0.05 pounds > a.i. per acre). Potatoes, 26 months. Sweet corn, 18 months. All other > crops 40 months after application. (So much for cover crops, small grain > rotations, alfalfa, etc, on 1/3 of soybean acres). > > Clomazone (Command). 5% acres treated. No crop rotation until 16 months > after planting in Northern U.S., 12 months elsewhere. > > Clearly, some herbicide tolerant plant varieties are going to cause > some serious localized problems. Application rates tend to be a bit higher, > and repeat applications are much more common in herbicide tolerant programs. > One reason -- herbicide/GMO-seed companies are, in effect, guaranteeing > "satisfactory" weed control, and give growers the chemical needed for later > season resprays. These extend the crop rotation restrictions, but more > worrisome, can lead to runoff following an early summer thunderstorm. > Imagine what a little of these herbicides will do to that nice new grassed > waterway, or grass filter strip, half or 3/4 paid for with public dollars, > as runoff flows over the newly established grass stand. Also, expanded use > of these technologies will lead to more problems among neighbors when either > drift, runoff, or volatization (and drift) lead to herbicide injury in > nearby fields. > > chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) > Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) > 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] > Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 10:46:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27877 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:46:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA12972 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:48:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12924 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:48:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn40tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.169]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02254; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:47:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:47:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903251447.IAA02254@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Daniel Worley , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: A New Perspective of... Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 158 Hi All, Earlier Dan Wrote: > Capitalism may not be a great system, but it is the best that has been >devised by man thus far. And in its pure form, it is based on a worker >being paid "an honest day's pay for an honest day's work". The capitalist >(owner) who puts his/her money at risk investing it in what ever venture, >deserves a reasonable profit for his investment and effort. A lot of >people have attempted over the years to define "reasonable" in the above >context and have come up short. I do not intend to go there myself. > I don't agree that capitalism is the best that has been devised so far. It is certainly the most powerful. Capitalism has ruthlessly conquered any system that has had resources to plunder. Some of these systems have had a better way of existence than what capitalism is providing. We simply haven't heard about, or thought about it, or cared to think about, because evidence of previous cultures has been destroyed or pushed aside by capitalistic public relations(PR). Plus, it's too cosy in our pleasant capitalistic system to worry about such tedious details. The reason you perceive capitalism to be the best system that has been devised so far, is because it's great economic engines are being fueled by consumption of natural and social capital. As long as we have natural capital to consume and the waste generated by this system does not foul our own nest, then the capitalistic system works(unless your one of those being socially exploited)(ask the Ecquadorian Indians what they think about capitalism). However, when the natural capital runs out, and the filth of polution sicken even the highest in the capitalistic system, then the ways of capitalism will be laid bare, and the truth, will be known...capitalism is a failure too. For any system to function, it first of all, has to be a democracy. We no longer have that here. We have an oligarchy, or as Jim Hightower likes to say, 'A cleptocracy...Government by Thieves". Capitalism, socialism, communism and any other 'ism', will not work unless it is based in democracy! The experiments based on Carl Marx's work were not democratic, and they failed. But that does not mean that a democratic form of socialism could not work. And I'm not saying that is what I endorse. I think a democratic capitalistic system, that is held accountable for it's action could be a very pausible for of government. But that is not what we have now! We have no accountability. The faster you can exploit, the better. Our world is being stolen undying mega-oligarchies, known as corporations. With no concsience, only profit as a motive, and more influence in government than my Senators, they become perpetrators of an irresponsible form of capitalism that is degenerating into a form of tyranny that we may be unable to recover from. I hope I'm wrong...but I don't think so. Greg To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 11:13:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28513 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:13:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22511 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:03:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22483 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:03:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05840 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA27621 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.43); 25 Mar 99 10:08:55 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.43); 25 Mar 99 10:08:30 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:08:29 EST Subject: Re: RR Beans, Alfalfa and Plant Back Restrictions In-reply-to: <199903251448.JAA30986@billman.kuntrynet.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <120923874D4@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 159 Greg and others: I am a bit confused on this issue of Roundup and carryover effects. In Caroline Cox' review article on glyphosate in J. Pesticide Reform, she makes reference to possible carryover effects on succeeding lettuce and I think it was carrot crops. I remember checking with colleagues, including weed scientists, each of whom said that it was impossible because Roundup degraded almost instantly. So, of course, being myself, I had to look it up and sure enough, Roundup doesn't degrade instantly. It is bound to soil particles, so doesn't "move", but has a half-life in soil of something like 50 to 300 days, depending on soil type and moisture. It remains physiologically active, but soil-bound, where some have reported effects on soil organisms etc. So, I filed this all away mentally until last week, when a colleague reported on an unusual seminar he'd heard. Apparently a farmer-breeder of potatoes in PEI had grown some GMO potatoes for a major Canadian potato concern. The GE was not for Roundup Resistance (RR), but for Bt, if I recall correctly. But for some reason, he decided to spray Roundup on the potatoes and what do you know, they were RR. Then, being a farmer, he had the foresight to retain the tubers and plant them out the next year. The tubers which had grown on plants sprayed with Roundup the previous year had very weak emergence and poor seedling growth. Reportedly (and I don't know this to be true, as I'm getting this all second hand), the tubers had accumulated the Roundup, which acted to suppress or retard growth when the tubers were planted out the following year. I do not know if he had the tubers tested for this, or surmised it. This is rather intriguing. I'm wondering if anyone has seen studies on the metabolic fate of glyphosate (and the various "inerts" such as POEA) which are in Roundup) WITHIN the soybean or canola plant after it has been sprayed? Could it stay there compartmentalized in the seed, as in the apparent tuber example, and affect germination and growth the following year? What happens to you and me when we eat grain, vegetable oil, or french fries made from plant parts which have accumulated glyphosate (if indeed, this happens)? Could this be a factor in the 50% increase in soybean-related allergies recently reported by a lab at York University in the UK? They reportedly tested 4500 people for potential vegetable-related allergies (using blood antibody levels as the indicator, coupled with other symptoms) and for the first time in 17 years, soybean was in the top 10 species causing allergic responses in people. They do not know the soybeans to be GMO, but it seems likely as they were not segregated at source and the trial was conducted last year. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 13:31:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05312 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA12785 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:16:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12733 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:16:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [198.5.254.205] (st-ppp31.hevanet.com [198.5.254.205]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08955; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:16:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903251716.JAA08955@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:18:32 -0800 Subject: FW: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: AGRISYNERGY , SANET , Organic Gardening Discussion List CC: Bargyla Rateaver Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 160 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999, 6:47 AM STORY LEAD: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA March 25, 1999 Jim De Quattro, (301) 504-1626, jdequattro@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- A budding cooperative project of researchers, organic growers and others that begins this week could help replenish the nation's seed banks. More important, it could create market opportunities for new public and heirloom crop varieties. The Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency, maintains the National Plant Germplasm System. Its 27 repositories now hold about 437,000 specimens of germplasm--seed, cuttings and other tissue. Thousands of accessions are added each year. Researchers worldwide use the germplasm to breed crops with improved yield, nutrition, resistance to pests, disease and environmental stress or other traits. ARS is cooperating with the Farmer Cooperative Genome Project to test a new way for organic growers, farmer cooperatives and small seed companies to tap into this storehouse of genetic diversity. FCGP members will grow fresh supplies of germplasm, following NPGS guidelines. These ensure, for example, that regenerated seed is true to type--not contaminated by pollen from nearby crops of the same species. FCGP members will also develop marketable new varieties from germplasm they may never have known about otherwise. For example, an ARS repository in Corvallis, Ore., has more than 400 heirloom pear varieties. In Pullman, Wash., ARS maintains more than 200 lines of garlic. These represent most of the crop's genetic diversity. Only a few varieties account for nearly all commercial production, according to horticulturist Richard Hannan. He's based at ARS' Western Regional Plant Introduction Station in Pullman. On March 27-28 in Salem, Ore., Hannan, Corvallis ARS plant pathologist Joseph Postman and other scientists are among scheduled panelists at FCGP's first general meeting. Other plants with FCGP potential include heirloom varieties and wild relatives of tomato, lettuce, bean, broccoli, Egyptian onion, radish, blue and other Native American corn, blackberry, strawberry, Turkish grain legumes and little-known herbs such as black cumin. More than 200 small family farmers, organic farmers, seed producers, breeders and others will participate in FCGP, according to J.J. Haapala. He is research and education director of Oregon Tilth, a growers' group in Salem that certifies organic growers and processors. Haapala administers a USDA Fund for Rural America grant to the FCGP. ---------- Scientific contact: Richard M. Hannan, ARS Western Regional Plant Introduction Station, Pullman, Wash., phone (509) 335-1502, fax (509) 335-6654, hannan@wsunix.wsu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 15:07:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09690 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:07:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA14484 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:53:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA14478 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10776 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:53:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from greg (tnt-7-11.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.59]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA14107; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:28:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199903251928.OAA14107@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" , Subject: Re: RR Beans, Alfalfa and Plant Back Restrictions Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:51:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 161 I do not doubt at all that potatoes, soybeans, canola, etc accumulate roundup with post applications. Isn't that one of roundup's selling points that it translocates to the roots where as Gramaxone(paraquat) doesn't? I would assume that it should have been tested before the labelling of the Roundup. But, oh, could this one have slipped through the cracks in pesticide testing because roundup was always a preemerge burn down before GMO's. And GMO's are not regulated in the US. Is there any retesting of herbicides required when they were initially labeled for pre-emergence and then later they develop a GMO that is resitant to them? I really hate to send this over the list but I am going to anyhow. I have generated enemies from these type of questions that challenge the status quo. Might as well have the chemical companies join the bandwagon. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com ---------- > From: E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor > To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: RR Beans, Alfalfa and Plant Back Restrictions > Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 10:08 AM > > Greg and others: I am a bit confused on this issue of Roundup and > carryover effects. In Caroline Cox' review article on glyphosate in > J. Pesticide Reform, she makes reference to possible carryover > effects on succeeding lettuce and I think it was carrot crops. > > I remember checking with colleagues, including weed scientists, each > of whom said that it was impossible because Roundup degraded almost > instantly. So, of course, being myself, I had to look it up and sure > enough, Roundup doesn't degrade instantly. It is bound to soil > particles, so doesn't "move", but has a half-life in soil of > something like 50 to 300 days, depending on soil type and moisture. > It remains physiologically active, but soil-bound, where some have > reported effects on soil organisms etc. > > So, I filed this all away mentally until last week, when a colleague > reported on an unusual seminar he'd heard. Apparently a > farmer-breeder of potatoes in PEI had grown some GMO potatoes for a > major Canadian potato concern. The GE was not for Roundup > Resistance (RR), but for Bt, if I recall correctly. But for some > reason, he decided to spray Roundup on the potatoes and what do you > know, they were RR. > > Then, being a farmer, he had the foresight to retain the tubers and > plant them out the next year. The tubers which had grown on plants > sprayed with Roundup the previous year had very weak emergence and > poor seedling growth. Reportedly (and I don't know this to be true, > as I'm getting this all second hand), the tubers had accumulated the > Roundup, which acted to suppress or retard growth when the tubers > were planted out the following year. I do not know if he had the > tubers tested for this, or surmised it. > > This is rather intriguing. I'm wondering if anyone has seen studies > on the metabolic fate of glyphosate (and the various "inerts" such as > POEA) which are in Roundup) WITHIN the soybean or canola plant after > it has been sprayed? Could it stay there compartmentalized in the > seed, as in the apparent tuber example, and affect germination and > growth the following year? What happens to you and me when we eat > grain, vegetable oil, or french fries made from plant parts which > have accumulated glyphosate (if indeed, this happens)? > > Could this be a factor in the 50% increase in soybean-related > allergies recently reported by a lab at York University in the UK? > They reportedly tested 4500 people for potential vegetable-related > allergies (using blood antibody levels as the indicator, coupled with > other symptoms) and for the first time in 17 years, soybean was in > the top 10 species causing allergic responses in people. They do not > know the soybeans to be GMO, but it seems likely as they were not > segregated at source and the trial was conducted last year. Ann > > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca > Dr. E. Ann Clark > Associate Professor > Crop Science > University of Guelph > Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 > Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 > FAX: 519 763-8933 > http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 16:20:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11669 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:20:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20732 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:56:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chet.brysonweb.com (IDENT:root@chet.brysonweb.com [209.67.195.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20718 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:56:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (ABD60452.ipt.aol.com [171.214.4.82]) by chet.brysonweb.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA28808; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:57:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199903252057.PAA28808@chet.brysonweb.com> X-Sender: twilliams@progressivepubs.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:57:06 -0500 To: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David), sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Tad Williams Subject: Re: A New Perspective of... In-Reply-To: <199903251447.IAA02254@supermail.globaldialog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 162 >Hi All, > > >Earlier Dan Wrote: >> Capitalism may not be a great system, but it is the best that has been >>devised by man thus far. And in its pure form, it is based on a worker >>being paid "an honest day's pay for an honest day's work". The capitalist >>(owner) who puts his/her money at risk investing it in what ever venture, >>deserves a reasonable profit for his investment and effort. A lot of >>people have attempted over the years to define "reasonable" in the above >>context and have come up short. I do not intend to go there myself. >> > >I don't agree that capitalism is the best that has been devised so far. It >is certainly the most powerful. Capitalism has ruthlessly conquered any >system that has had resources to plunder. Some of these systems have had a >better way of existence than what capitalism is providing. We simply haven't >heard about, or thought about it, or cared to think about, because evidence >of previous cultures has been destroyed or pushed aside by capitalistic >public relations(PR). Plus, it's too cosy in our pleasant capitalistic >system to worry about such tedious details. > >The reason you perceive capitalism to be the best system that has been >devised so far, is because it's great economic engines are being fueled by >consumption of natural and social capital. As long as we have natural >capital to consume and the waste generated by this system does not foul our >own nest, then the capitalistic system works(unless your one of those being >socially exploited)(ask the Ecquadorian Indians what they think about >capitalism). > >However, when the natural capital runs out, and the filth of polution sicken >even the highest in the capitalistic system, then the ways of capitalism >will be laid bare, and the truth, will be known...capitalism is a failure too. > >For any system to function, it first of all, has to be a democracy. We no >longer have that here. We have an oligarchy, or as Jim Hightower likes to >say, 'A cleptocracy...Government by Thieves". > >Capitalism, socialism, communism and any other 'ism', will not work unless >it is based in democracy! The experiments based on Carl Marx's work were not >democratic, and they failed. But that does not mean that a democratic form >of socialism could not work. > >And I'm not saying that is what I endorse. I think a democratic capitalistic >system, that is held accountable for it's action could be a very pausible >for of government. >But that is not what we have now! We have no accountability. The faster you >can exploit, the better. > >Our world is being stolen undying mega-oligarchies, known as corporations. >With no concsience, only profit as a motive, and more influence in >government than my Senators, they become perpetrators of an irresponsible >form of capitalism that is degenerating into a form of tyranny that we may >be unable to recover from. > >I hope I'm wrong...but I don't think so. > >Greg I thought I would add my two cents worth to the discussion. The viability of any economic or political system rests on its ability to change or adapt. For example, capitalism adopted some of the ideas that Marx was advocating in the form of unions and social welfare. Everything that was said about accountability and the power of corporations is true, however when systems whether economic or political do not adapt or change like in the former Soviet Union they fail. On the other hand communism in China has adjusted just enough to mantain its viability by adopting some of capitalism's ideas. I feel that any system has its limits and capitalism is no exception. Its just a matter of new ideas blossoming and old ones reaching their capacities. Tad Williams To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 16:38:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12153 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:38:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08886 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:21:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08800 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:21:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12967 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:21:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [198.5.254.127] (br-ppp28.hevanet.com [198.5.254.127]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA13217 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:21:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903252021.MAA13217@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:24:33 -0800 Subject: Re: A New Perspective of... From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Sustained Agriculture Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 163 Ahoy, mateys! Throw out the anchor - we're drifting away from SANET. ---------- >From: Tad Williams >To: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David), sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: A New Perspective of... >Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999, 11:57 AM > > >>Hi All, >> >> >>Earlier Dan Wrote: >>> Capitalism may not be a great system, but it is the best that has been >>>devised by man thus far. And in its pure form, it is based on a worker >>>being paid "an honest day's pay for an honest day's work". The capitalist >>>(owner) who puts his/her money at risk investing it in what ever venture, >>>deserves a reasonable profit for his investment and effort. A lot of >>>people have attempted over the years to define "reasonable" in the above >>>context and have come up short. I do not intend to go there myself. >>> >> >>I don't agree that capitalism is the best that has been devised so far. It >>is certainly the most powerful. Capitalism has ruthlessly conquered any >>system that has had resources to plunder. Some of these systems have had a >>better way of existence than what capitalism is providing. We simply haven't >>heard about, or thought about it, or cared to think about, because evidence >>of previous cultures has been destroyed or pushed aside by capitalistic >>public relations(PR). Plus, it's too cosy in our pleasant capitalistic >>system to worry about such tedious details. >> >>The reason you perceive capitalism to be the best system that has been >>devised so far, is because it's great economic engines are being fueled by >>consumption of natural and social capital. As long as we have natural >>capital to consume and the waste generated by this system does not foul our >>own nest, then the capitalistic system works(unless your one of those being >>socially exploited)(ask the Ecquadorian Indians what they think about >>capitalism). >> >>However, when the natural capital runs out, and the filth of polution sicken >>even the highest in the capitalistic system, then the ways of capitalism >>will be laid bare, and the truth, will be known...capitalism is a failure >too. >> >>For any system to function, it first of all, has to be a democracy. We no >>longer have that here. We have an oligarchy, or as Jim Hightower likes to >>say, 'A cleptocracy...Government by Thieves". >> >>Capitalism, socialism, communism and any other 'ism', will not work unless >>it is based in democracy! The experiments based on Carl Marx's work were not >>democratic, and they failed. But that does not mean that a democratic form >>of socialism could not work. >> >>And I'm not saying that is what I endorse. I think a democratic capitalistic >>system, that is held accountable for it's action could be a very pausible >>for of government. >>But that is not what we have now! We have no accountability. The faster you >>can exploit, the better. >> >>Our world is being stolen undying mega-oligarchies, known as corporations. >>With no concsience, only profit as a motive, and more influence in >>government than my Senators, they become perpetrators of an irresponsible >>form of capitalism that is degenerating into a form of tyranny that we may >>be unable to recover from. >> >>I hope I'm wrong...but I don't think so. >> >>Greg > >I thought I would add my two cents worth to the discussion. The viability >of any economic or political system rests on its ability to change or >adapt. For example, capitalism adopted some of the ideas that Marx was >advocating in the form of unions and social welfare. Everything that was >said about accountability and the power of corporations is true, however >when systems whether economic or political do not adapt or change like in >the former Soviet Union they fail. On the other hand communism in China has >adjusted just enough to mantain its viability by adopting some of >capitalism's ideas. > >I feel that any system has its limits and capitalism is no exception. Its >just a matter of new ideas blossoming and old ones reaching their capacities. > >Tad Williams > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 16:49:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12502 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:49:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14349 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:35:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay3.smtp.psi.net (relay3.smtp.psi.net [38.8.210.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14229 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:34:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [38.167.41.1] (helo=facserver.fifthave.org) by relay3.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu id 10QGq9-00005s-00; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:34:57 -0500 Received: by FACSERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <4N1W1F6D>; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:42:40 -0500 Message-ID: From: Tom Smith To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Dan's pro-capitalist arguments Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:42:38 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 164 I agree that prison labor ought to be banned, and that organic farming ought not to wed ourselves to it. But Dan's pro-capitalist views are really beginning to irk me. So here's my reply Earlier Dan Wrote: > Capitalism may not be a great system, but it is the best that has been >devised by man thus far. And in its pure form, it is based on a worker >being paid "an honest day's pay for an honest day's work". I reply This does not sound like the historic basis of capitalism. It sounds more like one of the slogans of the nineteenth century labor movement, as it was opposing capitalism. Dan wrote The capitalist >(owner) who puts his/her money at risk investing it in what ever venture, >deserves a reasonable profit for his investment and effort. I reply 1) How does he get his venture capital in the first place? More importantly, how does the capitalist class get their capital, in the first place? Slavery, wars of imperial conquest, enclosure, ruthlessly driving their competitiors out of business, are some of the answers Marx and others come up with. But Dan doesn't address such analyses or arguments--he merely refers us to the historic experience of what he considers to be socialism--socialism based upon a (the Bolsheviks') notion that political pluralism was virtually impossible, trying to develop in the underdeveloped areas of the world, while facing tremendous resistance from advanced capitalist societies, including economic blockade, invasions, coups-d'etats. 2) Let's substitute "thief" for "capitalist" in the above passage from Dan: "The thief who puts the money he steals at risk investing in new schemes for robbery--buying guns, hiring accomplices, etc.--deserves a reasonable profit for his investment and effort." Well, what's the difference? In both cases, what we would be presenting would still be basically, "might makes right." The thief and the capitalist have the might (the capital), therefore, them that's got, should get more. 3) Obviously, some other measure of "justice," which seems to be what Dan is talking about, is necessary. Which is the point that the other person (don't remember his name) was trying to make--the "justice" of an economic system must be measured by how it benefits or does not benefit the community. Yet even in terms of how much profit the capitalist ought to make, let alone whether there should be capitalism, Dan begs off from coming up with any "reasonable" measure. He writes further: (Dan writes) A lot of >people have attempted over the years to define "reasonable" in the above >context and have come up short. I do not intend to go there myself. > I reply Dan seems to be of the opinion that it's all relative, that we as a community do not even need to make choices about how much we should get ripped off in terms of profit, let alone whether we should be ripped off, in the first place. Further, in response to the person who wrote that capitalism does not benefit the community, Dan wrote: Dan writes But, if as an adult, I should choose to use tobacco or alcohol (both of which were still legal the last time I checked), I don't want some "do-gooder" telling me I can't. I reply: Dan is confusing the realm of personal morality, where indeed it should all be relative, as J.S. Mills wrote, with complaints made against capitalism that it allows a few to exploit the rest of us and of natural world, and engages in ("profitable") practices that threaten to destroy us as a species and our world. Do you really want to argue, Dan, that these two are the same thing? Mills argued that morality should not be legislated if the behavior in question threatens to hurt no one but the person performing the behavior. Certainly capitalism hurts a lot of other people animals, plants, etc. other than the capitalist. Dan wrote: And for those who think socialism is a better way than capitalism, I think you can now purchase an airline ticket to Cuba; one way. I reply: Dan, I invite you to take a one-way trip to one of the outer regions of Russia right now, where capitalism has been restored in all its glory. Or Yugoslavia? Or how about Indonesia, where the peasants are being urged to eat only twice a week? Or Latin America, where people are attempting to subsist on boiled water with a little salt? Or how about any of our own nation's fine ghettos, or impoverished rural areas? How about the Midwest, where a lot of small farmers are getting run out of business because of recent mergers among grain corporations and falling prices? Tom To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 17:49:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13921 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA06480 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:58:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06466 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:57:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool016-max14.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.15.116]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id HTN6XVTR; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:02:57 -0500 Message-ID: <36FAB0D5.E83B3056@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:55:34 -0800 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: urban ag References: <199903251858.NAA16340@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 165 While it would sure be nice to have many more of our urban and suburban lawns converted into gardens, the fact remains that suburban and urban contruction frequently involves vast disruption of soil ecology, and even more often, the complete removal of native topsoil to be replaces by chem fertilizer and imported sod. If folks want to farm and urban 1/2 acre plots are too small for them, perhaps they should buy multiple lots in suburban area, or even better, farm land prior to subdivision. As can be seen by the fact that Japan and Korea are net importers of food, and soon china may be as well, the concept of urban/suburban ag is NOT a solution, only one of many parts- other crucial parts include the conservation of farmland in immediate proximity to urban area, and the continued profitability of that land, which is, i believe, the primary reason we are reading this list. phil gillman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 17:55:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14047 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:55:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA06468 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:57:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06424 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:57:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA14952 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:57:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id PAA28028; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:57:50 -0600 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xmaa23860; Thu, 25 Mar 99 15:54:03 -0600 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:54:02 -0600 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC05F@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: RR Beans, Alfalfa and Plant Back Restrictions Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:53:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 166 Ann and Greg, > Then, being a farmer, he had the foresight to retain the > tubers and plant them out the next year. The tubers which > had grown on plants sprayed with Roundup the previous year > had very weak emergence and poor seedling growth. Reportedly > (and I don't know this to be true, as I'm getting this all > second hand), the tubers had accumulated the Roundup, which > acted to suppress or retard growth when the tubers were > planted out the following year. I do not know if he had the > tubers tested for this, or surmised it. It is difficult to kill mature, senescing dicots with glyphosate. The farmer probably sprayed the potatoes late, and mistook the lack of response for resistance. Glyphosate would be translocated into the tubers. It is not surprising that effects were only apparent upon regrowth. I found a possibly useful reference: Haderlie,-L.C.; Petersen,-P.J. Herbicide drift and fall application at herbicide rates to potatoes. Res-Prog-Rep-West-Soc-Weed-Sci. [S.l.] : Western Society of Weed Science. 1986. p. 334-340. Unfortunately the hit didn't include an abstract and I don't have the journal on hand. > This is rather intriguing. I'm wondering if anyone has seen studies > on the metabolic fate of glyphosate (and the various "inerts" such as > POEA) which are in Roundup) WITHIN the soybean or canola plant after > it has been sprayed? This is the main kind of data that the EPA collects on pesticides. They are pretty conservative, but when you get into off-label uses, who knows? > Could it stay there compartmentalized in the > seed, as in the apparent tuber example, and affect germination and > growth the following year? What happens to you and me when we eat > grain, vegetable oil, or french fries made from plant parts which > have accumulated glyphosate (if indeed, this happens)? Glyphosate is way, WAY more toxic to plants than to animals. It is a weak acid and unlikely to be compartmentalized in tissue. There is probably a way to get these data from the EPA. Anyone know how? Greg wrote: > But, oh, could this one have slipped through the cracks in > pesticide testing because roundup was always a preemerge burn > down before GMO's. But the whole point of RR plants is that they metabolize and destroy glyphosate. Anyhow, the EPA doesn't let things slip by from what I have seen. > Could this be a factor in the 50% increase in soybean-related > allergies recently reported by a lab at York University in the UK? > They reportedly tested 4500 people for potential vegetable-related > allergies (using blood antibody levels as the indicator, coupled with > other symptoms) and for the first time in 17 years, soybean was in > the top 10 species causing allergic responses in people. They do not > know the soybeans to be GMO, but it seems likely as they were not > segregated at source and the trial was conducted last year. The engineered proteins are more antigenic than pesticides in general. I happened on the following reference in trying to find out about roundup toxicity: AU: Harrison,-L.A.; Bailey,-M.R.; Naylor,-M.W.; Ream,-J.E.; Hammond,-B.G.; Nida,-D.L.; Burnette,-B.L.; Nickson,-T.E.; Mitsky,-T.A.; Taylor,-M.L. TI: The expressed protein in glyphosate-tolerant soybean, 5-enolypyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase from Agrobacterium sp. strain CP4, is rapidly digested in vitro and is not toxic to acutely gavaged mice. SO: J-nutr. Bethesda, Md. : American Institute of Nutrition. Mar 1996. v. 126 (3) p. 728-740. CN: DNAL 389.8-J82 LA: English AB: The safety of 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase enzyme derived from Agrobacterium sp. strain CP4 (CP4 EPSPS) was assessed. CP4 EPSPS is the only protein introduced by genetic manipulation that is expressed in glyphosate-tolerant soybeans, which are being developed to provide new weed-control options for farmers. Expression of this protein in plants imparts high levels of glyphosate tolerance. The safety of CP4 EPSPS was ascertained by evaluating both physical and functional characteristics. CP4 EPSPS degrades readily in simulated gastric and intestinal fluids, suggesting that this protein will be degraded in the mammalian digestive tract upon ingestion as a component of food or feed. There were no deleterious effects due to the acute administration of CP4 EPSPS to mice by gavage at a high dosage of 572 mg/kg body wt, which exceeds 1000-fold the anticipated consumption level of food products potentially containing CP4 EPSPS protein. CP4 EPSPS does not pose any important allergen concerns because this protein does not possess characteristics typical of allergenic proteins. These data, in combination with seed compositional analysis and animal feeding studies, support the conclusion that glyphosate-tolerant soybeans are as safe and nutritious as traditional soybeans currently being marketed. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Mar 25 17:49:53 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13921 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA06480 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:58:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06466 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:57:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool016-max14.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.15.116]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id HTN6XVTR; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:02:57 -0500 Message-ID: <36FAB0D5.E83B3056@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:55:34 -0800 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: urban ag References: <199903251858.NAA16340@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 167 While it would sure be nice to have many more of our urban and suburban lawns converted into gardens, the fact remains that suburban and urban contruction frequently involves vast disruption of soil ecology, and even more often, the complete removal of native topsoil to be replaces by chem fertilizer and imported sod. If folks want to farm and urban 1/2 acre plots are too small for them, perhaps they should buy multiple lots in suburban area, or even better, farm land prior to subdivision. As can be seen by the fact that Japan and Korea are net importers of food, and soon china may be as well, the concept of urban/suburban ag is NOT a solution, only one of many parts- other crucial parts include the conservation of farmland in immediate proximity to urban area, and the continued profitability of that land, which is, i believe, the primary reason we are reading this list. phil gillman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Mar 24 13:59:59 1999 -0500 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08487 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13121 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13070 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-67ppp235.epix.net [199.224.67.235]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id LAA13754; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:50:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36F91846.4410FD46@epix.net> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:52:22 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: valerie frances CC: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: A New Perspective on Agriculture References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 168 valerie frances wrote: > "When conditions are ripe for it, these suburban lots could quickly be > developed into mini-farms, either as home-based businesses or as a > source of much good food for the family living there. That sort of > flexibility, coupled with broad-based ownership of prime agricultural > land in the form of suburban lots, may turn out to be a very lucky and > important break at a moment when we need one badly." > Anyone interested in seeing this type of agriculture first hand should go to Japan. I was there a year ago and was amazed at the intensity of food producing plots. Not a single square foot is wasted! Even in the downtown areas in of Tokyo there were plots as small as 4x5 ft that had veggies growing in them. There is no grass for yards *anywhere* near the population centers. It is considered a waste of resourses not to grow food in open spaces. Even at major interchanges on the highways they have planted the whole area in vegetables. Steve Groff. -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 21:50:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18527 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA14944 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:10:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA14841 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:10:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id OAA02762 for sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:03:51 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:00:24 +1200 Message-ID: <33525343196f@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: WOHLFART@chch.agnz.co.nz (Samira Wohlfart) Organization: Agriculture New Zealand To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:42:38 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: organic onion production X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 169 Does anyone have any pointers on the web for organic onion production?? thanx for your help! Samira Wohlfart Agribusiness Consultant Agriculture New Zealand PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz http://www.agnz.co.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Mar 25 23:42:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20689 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:42:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA19434 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:51:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA19359 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:51:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ns.mntm.org (ns.mntm.org [209.18.254.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA19703 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:51:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from rrc2.rrcnet.org (rrc2.rrcnet.org [209.18.245.2]) by ns.mntm.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA19641 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:51:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from anp32.rrcnet.org by rrc2.rrcnet.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/11Jul96-0511PM) id AA23920; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:50:12 -0600 Message-Id: <9903260350.AA23920@rrc2.rrcnet.org> From: "Phil Batalden" To: "sanet" Subject: organic tomato transplants Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:51:30 -0600 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 170 We live in southwestern Minnesota and would like to purchase some organic tomato transplants for spring planting in May. Where can I find them? Phil Batalden To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 09:05:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02190 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:05:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA14621 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:09:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from arl-img-12.compuserve.com (arl-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.217.142]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA14542 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:09:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id IAA16676; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:08:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:05:22 -0500 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Terminator Technology To: Adrian , asloan_bmavus , Tarah Cherry , Eva Cuadrado , "Robert G. Flory" , "INTERNET:KSFAIR@aol.com" , "INTERNET:SamCorn@aol.com" , "Tom & Joan Kemble" , Cahow McDonald , nycirt , SANET-mg , Marge Wood Message-ID: <199903260808_MC2-6F75-3CB8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 171 Living on the Earth, March 26, 1999: Terminator Technology We grow a small patch of Longfellow Flint Corn every year. This beautiful drying corn, with ears almost one foot long, has eight rows of nicely-rounded, golden-orange kernels which we grind to make cornbread and polenta. Each year we save seed from 30 choice ears for replanting. We've been doing this for about four years, since we got the original kernels from ethno-botanist Mel Bristol. He has been growing Longfellow Flint Corn on Bloomingfields Farm in Gaylordsville, Connecticut, for nearly two decades. Over that time, he has saved seeds from ears with tightly wrapped leaves at the tips in order to minimize crow damage. There is variability within the overall genetic stability of this corn which allows a careful grower to gradually select for traits that are important locally. To be successful, this process requires knowledge and skill, as well as at least 200 plants which can be isolated from other wind-blown corn pollen. Mel tells me that Longfellow Flint is the same corn that the Native Americans were growing widely over this part of the continent before the Europeans invaded. Apparently, many of the river bottom lands that grow corn today were cleared and cultivated six hundred years ago. Growers have been selectively saving seeds from the biggest, tastiest and most reliable ears of corn for about 5,000 years, beginning in Mexico with something like "teocinte" whose cob is about the size of the eraser on a pencil. Year after year, generation after generation, century after century, growers selected among this corn's natural variations in specific ecosystems. Unlike maple trees and tomato plants, corn will not self seed. It must be harvested, saved and planted again by humans. Apparently, the Native Americans used great care in this process. Growing Longfellow Flint Corn connects us not only to last year's crop and to our friend Mel and his work, but also to countless generations of other careful growers. Their skill and devotion, born of respect and the will to survive, are responsible for turning that small cob into beautiful ears, and for passing this gift on to future generations. Hybrid corn, which has to be newly created from two different parents each year, has already broken this age-old connection for many large growers. Now they are connected to the seed company instead. For other important crops, however, and especially for the world's poorer growers, saving the best seeds for replanting makes both agronomic and economic sense. This explains why millions of growers around the world are very concerned about the prospect of the so-called "Terminator Technology." This is the name given to a genetic engineering technique which, in effect, turns off the germination switch in future generations of seeds. A special treatment allows the first generation to grow, but seeds it produces will not germinate. A grower must buy next year's supply from the seed company. This technology was first developed with our tax dollars by the USDA working with a cotton seed company. That company was recently purchased by Monsanto, one of the planet's most aggressive promoters of agricultural biotechnology. Monsanto currently engineers cotton, soy and canola seeds to be sales tools for its herbicide, and puts a biological pesticide inside corn, potatoes and cotton, among other things. Its success in getting these novel varieties (dubbed "Frankenfoods" by critics) planted on a large portion of this country's farms and its aggressive legal tactics against farmers, make its acquisition and promotion of "Terminator Technology" especially worrisome. There are many unanswered questions about genetically-engineered crops and food. What are their long-term effects on human and ecosystem health? How fast will resistance to herbicides and internal pesticides develop in weeds and insects? How much will these novel traits cross with wild or cultivated relatives and what dangers are involved if and when they do? Recent reports from England and Canada suggest some serious problems in these areas. Inserting a suicide gene in seeds for the narrow interest of corporate profit is disrespectful to the people and processes which have allowed humans to live here for the last 10,000 years. It is simply not a good idea for our long-term survival. This is Bill Duesing, Living on the Earth (C)1999, Bill Duesing, Solar Farm Education, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 If you do not want to recieve these essays, please reply with that information. Bill and Suzanne Duesing operate the Old Solar Farm (raising NOFA/CT certified organic vegetables) and Solar Farm Education (working on urban agriculture projects in southern Connecticut and producing "Living on the Earth" radio programs). Their collection of essays Living on the Earth: Eclectic Essays for a Sustainable and Joyful Future is available from Bill Duesing, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 for $10 postpaid. These essays first appeared on WSHU, public radio from Fairfield, CT. New essays are posted weekly at http://www.wshu.org/duesing and those since November 1995 are available there. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 09:33:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02725 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:33:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA04547 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:43:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04481 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:43:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:43:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "Wallace Institute (E-mail)" Subject: Alternative Agriculture News, 4/99 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:42:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 172 April, 1999 Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, #117 Greenbelt, MD 20770 (301) 441-8777 E-mail: hawiaa@access.digex.net World Wide Web: http://www.hawiaa.org * * * If You Are Interested in Sustainable Agriculture... In addition to this monthly newsletter, the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture publishes the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, a quarterly, peer-reviewed journal of research on alternative agriculture. It is a scientific forum for disseminating technical, economic, and social research findings about the character and requirements of alternative agriculture systems. A comparison of alternative pest and soil management strategies for Maine potato production systems is featured in the new issue (Volume 13, No. 4). Other articles cover a comparison of conventional and organic apple production systems during three years of conversion to organic management in coastal California, and the response of corn, soybean, and wheat crops to fertilizer and herbicides in Ohio compared with low-input production practices. Subscriptions to AJAA are $44 for libraries; $24 for individuals; and $12 for students; contact the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Road, #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; e-mail hawiaa@access.digex.net Table of Contents USDA Outlines Improvements in Proposed Organic Standards, p.1 Groups Ask FDA To Ban Antibiotics for Farm Animals, p.2 Wallace Board Re-Elects Officers, Announces Reorganization, p.2 Organic Practices Can Reduce Groundwater Contamination, p.3 New Strategy Will Clean Up Factory Farms, p. 4 Peach Oil Could Replace Methyl Bromide, p. 4 Special Issue of Audubon Chronicles Organic's Progress, p. 4 Resources, p. 4 Positions, p.5 Upcoming Events, p. 5 USDA OUTLINES IMPROVEMENTS IN PROPOSED ORGANIC STANDARDS At the most recent meeting of the National Organic Standards Board, the USDA announced several significant improvements on policy issues for the National Organic Standards that were among the most controversial of the first proposed standards. Keith Jones, Director of the USDA's National Organic Program, outlined improvements in standards for livestock, synthetic materials, inert ingredients in pesticide formulations, and ecolabeling. Important provisions include a 100% organic feed requirement; a ban on antibiotic use in livestock; a requirement for access to the outdoors for all animals and pasture for all ruminants, with some limited exceptions; NOSB authorization for all approved synthetic materials; a prohibition on all List 2 EPA inerts and all List 3 inerts unless specifically approved by the NOSB; and no restrictions on label claims other than the organic claim. The USDA will seek a one-time authorization to cover the cost of the first round of certifier accreditation, which will enable small, private certifiers to work in the national program. It is also negotiating a contract with the Organic Materials Review Institute to conduct the necessary technical reviews of materials being considered for the National List of allowable synthetics in organic production. The NOSB has also brokered a tentative compromise between the USDA and the private certifier community on provisions for termination of certification. The arrangement would allow private certifiers, after finding a serious violation of standards and conducting an internal appeal process, to revoke the letter of certification through which it authorized the offending operation to use its seal. The operation can elect to appeal the certifier's decision to the USDA Secretary, who retains final authority to terminate certification. Kathleen Merrigan, the Wallace Institute's Senior Analyst, is a member of the NOSB. GROUPS ASK FDA TO BAN ANTIBIOTICS FOR FARM ANIMALS Five health, consumer, and other public interest groups last month asked the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to ban the use of certain antibiotics to fatten farm animals. Scientists have said that the use of antibiotics to promote animal growth increases the prevalence of bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics' effects, and jeopardizes human health. Adding antibiotics to livestock feed can lead to antibiotics resistance in foodborne pathogens, which can make cases of food poisoning difficult to treat or even deadly, according to the Center for Science in the Public Interest, one of the groups which signed the petition to the FDA. The other groups are the Environmental Defense Fund, Food Animal Concerns Trust, Public Citizen's Health Research Group, and Union of Concerned Scientists. For more than 40 years, ranchers and growers have fed low levels of penicillin, tetracycline, and other antibiotics to poultry, cattle, and pigs to speed their growth and to cut costs, according to the Center. In the past two years, the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have called for ending the use of several antibiotics for growth promotion in livestock. The groups' concerns are shared in Europe, where the Soil Association of England has released a report revealing "statistics on the enormous increases in use of the most common antibiotics such as penicillin, despite the supposed efforts of successful governments to curtail it. And it reveals some of the failures in the regulatory system which are leaving the human population exposed to the increasing risk of drug-resistant disease." In its magazine Living Earth (January-March, 1999), the Association calls for a ban on all non-medical uses of antibiotics in agriculture. WALLACE BOARD RE-ELECTS OFFICERS, ANNOUNCES REORGANIZATION The Wallace Institute Board of Directors last month re-elected officers and announced reorganization plans for the Institute. Three board members were re-elected to serve another term: Christine (Cass) Peterson, owner/operator, Flickerville Mountain Farm and Groundhog Ranch; Jose Montenegro, Director, Rural Development Center, Salinas, CA; and Neil Anderson, Anderson Associates Sheep Consultants, Manhattan, KS. These members of the Executive Committee were re-elected: President, Cornelia Butler Flora, Professor, Iowa State University; Vice President, Dr. Frederick Magdoff, Professor, Department of Plant and Soil Science, University of Vermont; Secretary, Cass Peterson; and Treasurer, Jose Montenegro. The board also announced that after 16 years, the Wallace Institute will broaden its scope and reorganize to deliver its message closer to home. "Sustainable agriculture has finally achieved scientific legitimacy," said Garth Youngberg, Institute, executive director, citing a multitude of sustainable agriculture initiatives at the USDA and land grant universities across the country. "When we began this Institute, our goal was to provide a safe haven for alternative farming practices that were shunned by the establishment. Now those practices are considered credible mainstream science. It is time for the Institute to focus on a new analytical agenda that includes rural development, marketing, and the environment, issues of enormous importance to all Americans, and all Americans should know about them." At its annual meeting, the Board reviewed the challenges that remain. "Achieving scientific legitimacy is only the first step," said Board chair Cornelia Flora. "It does not mean that we have fulfilled our vision of an agricultural system that is environmentally sound, socially just, and economically viable. In many ways, our work has just begun." To fulfill its new mission, the Wallace Institute is considering several reorganization plans, including mergers and new virtual facilities to take advantage of technological advances in communication and research. "We will have a new look," said Flora. "We will avail ourselves of cutting-edge communications technologies and build new partnership networks not available throughout much of the Institute's history." Flora said that credible policy analysis will continue to be the heart of the Institute's work, but the agenda will expand to include environmental management, rural development, and marketing. Final decisions about the Institute's new design are not expected until later this year. "The Institute and its founding executive director, Garth Youngberg, have contributed enormously to the success of sustainable agriculture," said Jean Wallace Douglas, the Institute's Honorary President and longtime benefactor. "Whatever turn the Institute takes, it will honor and build upon that legacy." ORGANIC PRACTICES CAN REDUCE GROUNDWATER CONTAMINATION The adoption of organic soil practices can effectively reduce nitrate contamination of groundwater while maintaining yields and improving overall soil quality, according to a 15-year study by the Rodale Institute. The research highlights an organic solution that could reduce the harmful effects of agricultural groundwater pollution and its contamination of surrounding waters. The study also found that organic management increased soil fertility, improved water filtration and holding capacity, reduced erosion, and increased crop productivity, especially during dry years. NEW STRATEGY WILL CLEAN UP FACTORY FARMS A Unified National Strategy for Animal Feeding Operations, announced last month by the EPA and USDA, will reduce polluted runoff from 450,000 cattle, dairy, poultry, and hog farms where animals are raised in confined operations across the country. The strategy sets a goal of developing and implementing Comprehensive Nutrient Management Plans for all animal feeding operations by 2009. Those plans will include actions to prevent or reduce runoff, improve storage and handling of manure, and identify new technologies to implement the plans. Voluntary programs will be the main approach for smaller operations, but larger operations with more than 1,000 animal units, which comprise 5 percent of all animal feeding operations, will be required to obtain Clean Water Act discharge permits. The strategy requires large livestock companies that contract with smaller operators to share responsibility for meeting regulatory requirements. The strategy is available on the Internet at http://www.epa.gov/owm; from the EPA at (202) 260-7786; or the USDA at (202) 720-5974. PEACH OIL COULD REPLACE METHYL BROMIDE The natural oil that gives peaches their perfume also kills fungus and other pests in the soil, and could replace the pesticide methyl bromide, according to The New York Times (March 14, 1999). The peach compound, called benzaldehyde, is manufactured synthetically and has been screened by researchers at the Agricultural Research Service. "When it proved effective, they developed a new approach for applying benzaldehyde onto soil using granules of activated charcoal saturated with the fragrant chemical," according to the article. "Not only does the peach essence kill off pathogens like Fusarium oxysporum, Rhizoctonia solani, Pythium aphanidermaturm, and Sclerotinia minor, the researchers found, but it seems to favor other, beneficial organisms in the soil that then continue to muscle out the unwanted pests." The use of methyl bromide, which damages the Earth's ozone layer, is required to end in 2005. SPECIAL ISSUE OF AUDUBON CHRONICLES ORGANIC'S PROGRESS A special issue of Audubon (March-April, 1999) examines the progress of organic farming with articles on "The Organic Revolution," the increase in integrated pest management practices, and Wes Jackson and the Land Institute. Conventional farmers this year "will apply 24 million tons of fertilizer and nearly 1 billion pounds of pesticides on their land," according to the lead article. "Some of these chemicals will invariably wind up in our groundwater, rivers, and estuaries." But "some experts are starting to come around," realizing the potential for organic farming which "increases biodiversity and benefits soil microorganisms that break down organic matter, earthworms that build soil structure, and soil arthropods that prey on insect pests." A second article explores the "quiet revolution in American agriculture called integrated pest management, or simply IPM," and a third describes Wes Jackson's "grand experiment: a form of agriculture that, like a prairie, runs entirely on sunlight and rain." RESOURCES "Cultivating Diversity: Agrobiodiversity and Food Security" is available from World Resources Institute, 10 G St., NE, Washington, D.C. 20002; on the Internet, http://www.wri.org/wri/ "Pests of the Garden and Small Farm: A Grower's Guide to Using Less Pesticide," 286 pages, is $35; "1999-2000 Catalog" of publications, videos, and slide is free; both are available from the University of California, DANR Communication Services/Publications, 6701 San Pablo Ave., Oakland, CA 94608; (800) 994-8849, or (510) 642-2431. "Getting Food on the Table: An Action Guide to Local Food Policy" is $12 from Community Food Security Coalition, P.O. Box 209, Venice, CA 90294; (310) 822-5410. POSITIONS California Sustainable Agriculture Working Group seeks a full-time Coordinator to lead policy advocacy, movement-building, and educational activities; contact CSAWG, P.O. Box 1599, Santa Cruz, CA 95061; (831) 457-2815; e-mail casawg@igc.org Farmers' Market Trust seeks an assistant to the Executive Director, Food Security Meeting Planner, Technology/Web Site Assistant, and GIS Specialist; contact Meredith Stone, FMT, 1201 Chestnut St., 4th Floor, Philadelphia, PA 19107; (215) 568-0882; e-mail fmtrust@libertynet.org Mothers & Others seeks an Executive Director; send resume to ED Search, Mothers & Others, 40 West 20th St., New York, N.Y. 10011; e-mail wgordon@mothers.org Washington Tilth Producers seek apprentices on their farms; contact Lisa Taylor, Seattle Tilth, 4649 Sunnyside Ave. N., Seattle, WA 98103; (206) 633-0451; e-mail tilth@speakeasy.org UPCOMING EVENTS May 14-16, "Beyond Pesticides: Pollution Prevention Is the Cure," the 17th National Pesticide Forum and 8th Annual California Pesticide Organizing Conference, will be held in Santa Barbara, CA; contact Beyond Pesticides/National Coalition Against the Misuse of Pesticides, (202) 543-5450; e-mail ncamp@ncamp.org May 14-16, Organic Landscaping Workshop will be held in East Troy, WI; contact Michael Fields Agricultural Institute, W2493 County Rd. ES, East Troy, WI 53120; (414) 642-3303; e-mail: mfai@igc.apc.org May 17-19, 29th Annual Composting and Recycling National Conference will be held in Albuquerque, N.M.; contact BioCycle Magazine, 419 State Ave., Emmaus, PA 18049; 1-800-661-4905. May 19-20, Summit on Organic Food Technology will be held in Gilroy, CA; contact Gay Franklin, SOFT, (408) 842-4893; e-mail gvnc@safemail.com May 21-23, American Livestock Breeds Conservancy's Annual Conference will be held in LaFox, IL; contact Cynthia Ehrman, ALBC, P.O. Box 477, Pittsboro, N.C. 27312; (919) 542-5704. May 23-28, 10th International Soil Conservation Organization Conference will be held in West Lafayette, IN; contact Nona Schaler, Purdue University, 1-800-359-2968 ext. 92N; e-mail njschaler@cea.purdue.edu; on the Internet, http://topsoil.nserl.purdue.edu/isco99/isco99.htm May 26-29, "Permanent Agriculture: Designing Our Farms for a Future That Matters" will be held in Buena Vista, VA; contact Good Earth Farm School, (540) 261-8775. June 6-8, "NABC 11: World Food Security and Sustainability: The Impacts of Biotechnology and Industrial Consolidation," the 11th annual meeting of the National Agricultural Biotechnology Council, co-hosted by the Wallace Institute, will be held in Lincoln, NE; contact the Center for Biotechnology, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, (402) 472-2635; or NABC, (607) 254-4856; e-mail nabc@cornell.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 11:16:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05453 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:16:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA18332 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:07:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18193 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:07:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA18277 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:07:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.43); 26 Mar 99 10:13:01 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.43); 26 Mar 99 10:12:57 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:12:56 EST Subject: (Fwd) Rachel #643: Studying a Town to Death X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <138A5E01137@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 173 Folks: may be of interest regarding recent thread on cancer and agricultural pesticides. Ann =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #643 . . ---March 25, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . STUDYING A TOWN TO DEATH . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . ================================================================= STUDYING A TOWN TO DEATH Lompoc, California is a small city of 42,000 people that lies within a valley along California's central coast, about 100 miles above Los Angeles. Lompoc is separated from the Pacific Ocean by 7 miles of rich, flat farmland. Here, farming is a year-round activity, so pesticides waft up the valley into the city most of the year, carried by the ocean breeze. According to California's state Environmental Protection Agency (Cal EPA), the people of Lompoc have been lodging formal complaints about pesticide drift and health problems for at least six years, since 1993. George Rauh, a teacher who moved to Lompoc in 1989, says, "For the first two years, I thought it was great. Then I got chronic bronchitis. I had never had anything like it, and I knew something was wrong. I started asking around and I found many, many people had problems -- bronchitis, asthma, headaches, the flu when it wasn't flu season, even reproductive problems, and a host of other ailments. It was obvious that there was something really wrong." In 1992 Rauh and his neighbors formed Volunteers for a Healthy Valley and began asking local and state health officials to pay attention. Now, if you have ever complained to your health department about an environmental problem, you know that the response is rarely swift or decisive. Of course this is not always true, but as a general rule public health officials are reluctant to admit that there is a problem, or even to look for a problem diligently. There seem to be two main reasons for this: If health officials admit there is a problem today, they are admitting that someone failed to do their job in the past. Secondly, if a problem is identified today, health officials are obligated to do something about it, and this often puts them into conflict with one or more polluters -- many of whom have considerable political clout. Therefore, despite what a civics textbook may say, public health officials often do not respond positively when the public asks for help. Indeed, officials often begin to define the victims of pollution as "the problem" and spend their time trying to discredit the victims instead of looking into the underlying public health questions. Lompoc is no exception to this general rule. After getting no satisfactory answers from state officials for more than a year, Volunteers for a Healthy Valley conducted a letter-writing campaign to Region 9 of U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (U.S. EPA). U.S. EPA responded by asking Cal EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation (DPR) to conduct a study. Reluctantly, DPR then asked Cal EPA's Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA) to study health conditions in Lompoc. Cal EPA's OEHHA began to study cancer incidence in Lompoc 1988-1995, birth defects in Lompoc 1987-1989, live births in Lompoc 1988-1994, and hospital discharges in Lompoc 1991-1994. The study did not collect any new data but examined only existing data. Government officials were caught falsifying data (see REHW #519) and the study took three years to complete. Meantime, Cal EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation (DPR) decided to study pesticide use in the Lompoc Valley. They initially proposed to study two pesticides "but we laughed them off the stage," says Rauh. Then DPR agreed to study all pesticides used in the valley. Since 1991, California has maintained detailed records of pesticide use -- the only state in the nation to do so. Six months later, DPR reported that about 50 different pesticides are used regularly in the Lompoc Valley, many of them carcinogens and many of them nerve poisons.[1] In June, 1998, Cal EPA announced the results of its three-year health study:[2] ** The people of Lompoc have 37% more lung cancer than people in the surrounding three counties (San Luis Obispo, Santa Barbara, and Ventura). This finding was statistically significant at the 0.01 level -- an unusually strict statistical standard. (It means that there was only 1 chance in 100 that the results of the study occurred by chance.) Another part of the study found that the incidence of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) was low among Lompoc residents, "suggesting a lower prevalence of smoking among adults." High lung cancer and a low smoking rate. Curious. The study also found elevated rates of breast cancer, kidney cancer, liver cancer, cancers of the female reproductive organs, non-Hodgkins lymphomas, multiple myelomas, all cancers combined, and all cancers combined excluding lung cancer. However, none of these elevated rates passed the test of significance at the 0.01 level, so Cal EPA disregarded the pattern as meaningless statistical flukes. ** The incidence of 7 kinds of birth defects was investigated; nothing unusual turned up. ** Cal EPA studied what proportion of hospital discharges in Lompoc was attributable to particular illnesses. (Hospital discharge records are assumed to represent serious illnesses, after subtracting out normal births.) The study divided hospital discharges into 18 groups of illnesses. Of the 18 groups, two were elevated in Lompoc -- a "respiratory" group and a "reproductive" group. For the respiratory group, bronchitis and asthma were consistently elevated the most. Compared to the surrounding area, people leaving the hospital in Lompoc had 69% more bronchitis and 58% more asthma. By a different measure, Cal EPA found asthma and bronchitis 85% more common in Lompoc than in the three surrounding counties. Bronchitis occurred in the young and the old; asthma was elevated only among adults. The "reproductive" group of illnesses included abnormal birth outcomes and female reproductive cancers. Four other groups of diseases were considered "suggestive" -- female breast cancer, pleurisy-pneumonia, headaches and seizures, and all respiratory malignancies. Abnormal birth outcomes showed "a strong pattern for infant respiratory conditions," Cal EPA reported. Compared to infants in surrounding counties, Lompoc infants had a two-fold or greater chance of being hospitalized for respiratory disorders. In sum, Cal EPA now knew that 50 pesticides were being used in a geographic setting that channeled drifting poisons into a residential community on a continuing basis. By this time, people had been complaining for 5 years of bronchitis, difficulty breathing, headaches, and flu-like symptoms, among other medical complaints. Using rigorous statistical criteria, Cal EPA's three-year health study had documented 37% more lung cancer, 69% more bronchitis and 58% more asthma in Lompoc, compared to surrounding communities, plus a two-fold increase in respiratory problems requiring hospitalization of infants. Given this information, ordinary citizens in Lompoc saw a pretty clear pattern. They came to believe that they are being poisoned by year-round exposure to a thin soup of mixed pesticides. But Cal EPA scientists concluded only that "without information on potential exposures, we can only speculate as to why respiratory illnesses appear to be elevated in Lompoc." So another study is begun. The plan is to monitor the air in Lompoc for all 50 pesticides for a year. This will provide the exposure data that the scientists say they need to reach a conclusion. However, such a study requires $142,000 in funds and Cal EPA drags its feet and the state legislature drags its feet. So instead of a year-long study of 50 pesticides, Cal EPA can only conduct a one-month study of 12 pesticides late in the growing season of 1998. The results of this study are released in February, 1999. According to the Department of Pesticide Regulation (DPR), which conducted the study, 179 air samples were taken during a 28-day period. Of these 179 samples, 140 (78%) showed no detectable levels of pesticides, DPR said. Furthermore, the study looked for two metals, manganese and aluminum, because these are found in three common pesticides, maneb, mancozeb, and fosetyl-aluminum. Manganese and aluminum were not elevated in the air in Lompoc "suggesting no appreciable exposure" to these 3 pesticides, DPR said.[3] This is now known as the "Phase I" study. According to the WALL STREET JOURNAL, Lompoc farmers "seized upon the Phase I numbers as proof that pesticides pose no health threat to valley residents."[4] In sum, it looked as if Volunteers for a Healthy Valley had been proven wrong. However, when DPR's data were subjected to close scrutiny by a former chemistry professor from the University of California at Berkeley, the picture changed. Dr. Susan Kegley, now staff scientist for the Pesticide Action Network in San Francisco, found that "DPR made numerous mistakes -- and led the public to believe that fewer than one quarter of air samples taken in Lompoc contained pesticides. An independent and scientific analysis shows that pesticides were detected in 97% of the air samples..."[5] Kegley also pointed out that DPR had waited six weeks before analyzing samples of pesticides that would degrade within a week's time. In sum, "DPR drew erroneous conclusions from data that were not collected in a scientifically valid way," Kegley wrote. Kegley was particularly scornful of DPR's study of manganese and aluminum. She wrote, "Because aluminum and manganese are very abundant in soils, looking for the 'extra' aluminum and manganese as an indicator of exposure to these pesticides is like adding a bucket of water to the ocean and looking for the 'extra' water. This method is not a valid one for analysis of metal-containing pesticides, and it is impossible to conclude that the data show there is 'no appreciable exposure.'" No one has refuted Kegley's criticism of Cal EPA's study. In sum, Cal EPA -- the health officials responsible for determining what is killing people in Lompoc (few people survive lung cancer) and making others sick -- were shown to be incompetent, or liars, or both. As far as the people of Lompoc are concerned, they now have sufficient data: excess illnesses and deaths have been rigorously documented; the use of 50 pesticides has been documented; and 97% of air samples taken in their town contain one or more pesticides. What is the response of California health officials? Are they ready to advocate pollution prevention and the precautionary principle? Are they ready to help Lompoc farmers phase out expensive, toxic pesticides and shift to organic farming methods that produce higher yields and higher financial returns[6] than chemical methods? No. Cal EPA now wants to conduct a new, longer study of air quality in Lompoc before reaching any conclusions. Why are health officials studying this town to death and refusing to act? Perhaps it is because 4 million people in California live adjacent to fields that are sprayed year round with dangerous pesticides.[7] If health officials confront the truth in Lompoc, they will be opening a Pandora's box of trouble for chemical agriculture and for the chemical corporations that invented it. If they really open that box, no telling where it might end. ========== [1] See http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/dprdocs/lompoc/lpur_sum.pdf. [2] Joy A. Wisniewski and others, ILLNESS INDICATORS IN LOMPOC, CALIFORNIA; AN EVALUATION OF AVAILABLE DATA (Sacramento, Cal.: California Environmental Protection Agency, June, 1998). See http://www.oehha.ca.gov/archive/getlomp.htm. [3] See www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/dprdocs/lompoc/lompoc.htm. [4] Marc Lifsher, "Funding Delay Threatens Air Monitoring," WALL STREET JOURNAL February 17, 1999, pg. CA1. [5] Susan Kegley, CRITIQUE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF PESTICIDE REGULATION'S PHASE ONE LOMPOC AIR MONITORING (San Francisco, California: Pesticide Action Network, March 1999). [6] National Research Council, ALTERNATIVE AGRICULTURE (Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press, 1989). [7] Daryl Kelley and Deborah Schoch, "Health: Ventura County faces more threat from airborne pesticides than all but two counties in state, environmental group says" LOS ANGELES TIMES August 20, 1998, pg. A-3. Descriptor terms: pesticides; lompoc; ca; lung cancer; bronchitis; asthma; california environmental protection agency; cal epa; health studies; george rauh; volunteers for a healthy valley; ################################################################ NOTICE Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs our organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor ################################################################ ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 11:29:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05781 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:29:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02263 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:38:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02150 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from cisa- (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA10063 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:41:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990326104107.0079ba30@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:41:07 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: Dan's pro-capitalist arguments In-Reply-To: <199903252310.SAA21210@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 174 >Dan wrote: >And for those who think socialism is a better way than capitalism, I >think you can now purchase an airline ticket to Cuba; one way. Dan, The poverty of your opinions makes itself clear when you resort to statements like this. You are apparently incapable of seeing even the glaring problems of capitalism that are so obvious in "sunny Puerto Rico." I can't image this discussion is going to bring about any real dialog at this point, so stick a fork in me, I'm done. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 12:03:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07070 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:03:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15553 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:09:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15454 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:09:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02054 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:09:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26885>; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:09:15 -0600 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Phil Batalden" cc: "sanet" Message-Id: <99Mar26.100915cst.26885@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:05:06 -0600 Subject: Re: organic tomato transplants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 175 It may be too late for this season already, but I grew my own organic tomato transplants this year. I'm not strictly organic, but I only use fertilizer on my corn & garlic on my suburban Winnipeg self-sufficiency operation. My 12 year old did an experiment this winter growing seeds in flats in a south-facing window. He planted durum wheat, barley, mung-beans & Desi chick-pea seedlings in soil-less growing medium & the same medium plus 10-20% mushroom compost. He fertilized the no-compost with a complete fertilizer every 4 days & the compost trial with a 'tea' made from the same mushroom compost. The compost trial seedlings came up 2 days on average earlier than either control or fertilizer trials even though moisture levels & temps were uniform. The trial was concluded after 22 days. Barley seedlings in the compost trial were visibly more developed than control or fertilizer trials (began tillering). Barley & wheat growth was 25% higher in the compost seedlings than the fertilizer seedlings & 250% higher than the control group. Mung-bean growth was harder to compare. The compost plants weren't taller than the fertilizer plants, but they were talerl than the control & their leaves were 30% longer than the fertilizer plants. Sooooooo...... I used 15% mushroom compost in my growing mix for starting my own transplants! (Even though I know that this trial was not replicated properly & the experimental blocks were not randomised) My Flor del Creole, Charlie Redstaker & Mama Mia tomatoes & heirloom Hungarian wax peppers are roaring along just fine thank you! Pat "Phil Batalden" on 03/25/99 09:51:30 PM To: "sanet" cc: Subject: organic tomato transplants We live in southwestern Minnesota and would like to purchase some organic tomato transplants for spring planting in May. Where can I find them? Phil Batalden To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 12:14:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07460 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:14:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22263 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:22:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22052 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn69tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.198]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09935 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:22:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:22:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903261622.KAA09935@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: The Importance of Perspective Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 176 Tad wrote: Ahoy, mateys! Throw out the anchor - we're drifting away from SANET. Respectfully, While discussion of economic and governmental systems is not direct disscusion of agriculture, agriculture in most of the world is a subset of economic and governmental conditions. It is therefore vital to understand these forces, because they the main controlling forces in how agriculture is practiced throughtout the world. >From free market capitalism springs oligarchical corporate agriculture, and from that springs many unwholesome forms of exploitive agriculture. To understand the lies upon which corporate agriculture is based is paramount to changing the system. So please endure these postings relating to governing paradigms, as worthwhile background information. If they rub you the wrong way, ignore them or delete them. Others may not have the understanding of these fundamental concepts and find them very enlightning. Cheers, Greg To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 12:51:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08490 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09452 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:02:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA09376 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:02:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA03498; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:02:10 -0600 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xma000292; Fri, 26 Mar 99 10:59:53 -0600 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:59:53 -0600 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC066@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Dan's pro-capitalist arguments Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:59:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 177 Mark, > I can't image this discussion is going to bring about any > real dialog at this point, so stick a fork in me, I'm done. Be patient, I'm trying to prepare a proper fork. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 12:51:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08491 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:51:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09289 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:01:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA09128 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:01:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA02316; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:01:25 -0600 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xma025614; Fri, 26 Mar 99 10:56:00 -0600 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:55:59 -0600 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC065@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: The Importance of Perspective Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:55:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 178 Greg, > While discussion of economic and governmental systems is not > direct disscusion of agriculture, agriculture in most of the > world is a subset of economic and governmental conditions. > It is therefore vital to understand these forces, because they > the main controlling forces in how agriculture is > practiced throughtout the world. I agree completely. It is essential to examine economic theory and policy in the agricultural context to deal with sustainability issues. If people don't like that subject, they can use their delete key. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 12:54:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08527 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:54:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22682 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:22:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22494 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:22:21 -0500 (EST) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (travelers.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.13]) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA15588; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:22:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:22:20 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: dsc17@travelers.mail.cornell.edu To: Mark cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Dan's pro-capitalist arguments In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990326104107.0079ba30@crocker.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 179 My $.02 on the matter: I agree with Dan in that I am very happy I was born an American and not a Cuban, Russian, etc. I enjoy the freedoms of choice that our system brings I'm not gloating or putting those people down. in fact, I think that the realization of the priviledge under which I was born and raised obligates me to help those less lucky; in my own way, I'd like to think I am My argument is that the problem is not with the economics system but with people. Marxism would work wonderfully if people worked hard and contributed to society not based on incentives of financial gain but in reality, it does not work. there is no incentive to innovate or improve other than altruisitc motives and sadly history has borne out that these motivations are insufficient capitalism works well in that it does provide incentives to innovate, improve, be efficient, etc. I believe that markets make better decisions than bureaucrats..if the proper costs and prices are assigned to various activities. The problem arises because we do not assign the right prices to things. In our system,for example, pollution (if legal) is encouraged over proper disposal of waste. Clealry, paying someone to haul away your garbage is more expensive than throwing it out in the street. So if street dumping is legal, these produers will gain an competitive advantage, be able to charge a lower price (or have lower costs) and thus benefit from this harmful action. Part of this problem, frankly, is our fault (as consumers). We too often buy the lowest cost or most convenient thing over what is socially best. We ask for legislation (e.g., banning pollution, child labor or requiring minimum wage)to protect us from ourselves because we know we can't trust ourselves. As one former professor of mine stated, we wear very different hats as consumers than we do as voters/citizens. And this makes for a very muddled picture in which the price of many goods do not reflect the true social cost. If people stopped buying things made in "bad" ways, no one would produce them and the bad things would go away What is the answer? I have no simple one, except that as long as we live in a capitalist system, enjoying the great freedom of choice as consumers that we do, we need to also be responsible in our purchases, exercise our values in the marketplace and educate others to do the same. No quick fix, I agree, but it's a start I also must add that many of the interventions of governemnts exacerbate this problem. It is a simple rule of economics that if you tax something you'll have less of it; if you subsidize, you'll have more. Yet the US governemnt taxes labor (twice, if you include social security, which taxes a much higher percentage of poor people's income than that of rich people), and taxes land ownership... things most of us consider good.. while subsidizing things that cause pollution and deplete resources (such as facilitating timber, mining, grazing domestically (at a net loss to taxpayers), plus our foreign policy of engagement in the middle east to protect our cheap oil supply) Go figure! We tax labor twice, then burn up the environment double time to provide jobs. This ties in to the idea stated here about the importance of true democracy. Clealry, the majority's interests are not helped by these policies Well, enough of my ramblings. take care folks David To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 13:42:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09603 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:42:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA28306 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:47:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA28219 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:46:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903261746.MAA28219@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.155] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A7C7E650188; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:45:43 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:42:40 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Econo-political diatribes Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 180 On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:22:04 -0600 (CST), Greg David wrote: >From free market capitalism springs oligarchical corporate agriculture, and >from that springs many unwholesome forms of exploitive agriculture. To >understand the lies upon which corporate agriculture is based is paramount >to changing the system. Agree or disagree, it is all so reminiscent of the politico-intellectual blather that I had to endure when in university in the mid-1960s. And equally effective. >So please endure these postings relating to governing paradigms, as >worthwhile background information. If they *were* worthwhile background you'd have a point. >Others may not have the understanding of these fundamental concepts and find >them very enlightning. The operative fundamental concept is that like it or not, in a representative democracy most people get more or less what they want. Whether any of us agree or disagree is irrelevant. Stop by any WalMart Super Center on a Saturday afternoon and you will see that Larry Lunchbucket, Joe Sixpack, and Mr. & Mrs. Frontporch are quite content with the food system as it is currently structured. Their food costs them less and less (at the till, and as a percentage of their disposable income), and it's more and more convenient for them, every year. Given their contentment with the system, rambling philosophical discussions (particularly on *this* list) give them no reason to change their eating habits, leave alone go out and vote for a substantial change in our economic system and form of government. Covey highlights the fundamental difference between our 'Circle of Influence' and our 'Circle of Concern.' Governmental systems *may* fall within some people's Circle of Concern. This list, however, should generally concentrate on those areas in which we have some reasonable expectation of influence within a tolerable time frame. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 15:23:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12162 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:23:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07812 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:07:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07511 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:06:30 -0500 (EST) From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0F9700KYROKXXR@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:02:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from EPAHUB8.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0F9700J2ROBMT4@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:54:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by EPAHUB8.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 85256740.005BFBE3 ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:44:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:46:19 -0500 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #924 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <85256740.005B8634.00@EPAHUB8.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 181 Re. the Rachel article: There is another problem with the Cal-EPA study if it only involved taking air samples. Many of the pesticides Cal-EPA should be trying to monitor (semi-volatile compounds) are notoriously difficult to capture in air monitoring equipment. I supported a study some ten years ago that, even with over a million dollars to spend, produced only limited data on pesticide exposure for only a small number of pesticides. Most monitoring studies only examine the particulate phase and ignore the gaseous--fine if the concern is drift onto a neighbor's cropland, but not so good if the concern is exposures that may occur miles away. Fogs and other weather conditions can also affect the likelihood of exposures various distances away. A better and far cheaper study would involve modeling emissions and their fate and transport using monitoring data to calibrate the models. A strictly monitoring study for a reasonably large airshed, given the cost and difficulty of taking enough air samples and analyzing them so as to have enough data to draw statistically valid conclusions, has a low likelihood at the outset of proving significant exposure and is certainly not the best approach to estimating short and longer term exposure unless the agency has many millions of dollars to spend and has the best equipment and scientists involved. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 16:22:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13343 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:22:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07687 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:06:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07418 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:06:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000107676 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:02:45 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:03:06 GMT Subject: Panel members' biotech biases (Nat'l Acad Sciences) Message-ID: <2409234430.50142680@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 182 >From National Academy of Sciences website: http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument (Biotech highlights in bold below) Committee Membership Committee on Genetically Modified Crops Containing Pesticide Genes Project Identification Number: BANR-O-99-02-A Responsible Staff Officer: Mike Phillips Major Unit: Board on Agriculture Committee Membership: Date Posted: 03/17/99 Perry Adkisson (chair), Chancellor Emeritus and Distinguished Professor Emeritus, Texas A&M University Dr. Adkisson is known as the father of integrated pest management and was awarded the World Food Prize in 1997 for his significant contributions in plant protection. As Chancellor of the Texas A&M University System, Dr. Adkisson provided extraordinary leadership in a major agricultural state in meeting the needs of state clientele and at the same time developing the university into a world class research institution. He has had a distinguished career as a researcher, educator, and administrator. Dr. Adkisson was elected to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) in 1979 for his cutting-edge research in entomology and integrated pest management programs. He has served on a number of National Research Council (NRC) boards and commissions including Board on Agriculture and Natural Resources, Food and Nutrition Board, Commission on Life Sciences, and several NAS/NRC ad hoc committees. Dr. Adkisson received his Ph.D. in entomology from Kansas State University in 1956. Stanley Abramson, Member, Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn, Washington, DC. Mr. Abramson's law practice is focused on biotechnology, food safety and environmental law. He works extensively with risk assessment and risk management issues and assists clients with obtaining regulatory approvals for agricultural, industrial and consumer products, including products of genetic engineering. Mr. Abramson represents clients in federal and state enforcement proceedings and defends products before regulatory agencies and the courts. He is the past Associate General Counsel for Pesticides and Toxic Substances at EPA and a principal author of the federal government's Coordinated Framework for Regulation of Biotechnology. Mr. Abramson received his J.D. from Rutgers University. Stephen Baezinger, Eugene W. Price Professor, Department of Agronomy, University of Nebraska Dr. Baezinger's research interests focus on cultivar and germplasm development for small grains and improved breeding methodology. New breeding methods include use of tissue culture, genetic engineering, cytogenetic stocks, molecular markers, and statistical designs. Dr. Baezinger has had experience as a plant breeder in industry and with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. He obtained his B.A. in biochemical sciences at Harvard University and his M.S. and Ph.D. in plant breeding and genetics from Purdue University. Fred Betz, Senior Scientist, Jellinek, Schwartz & Connolly, Arlington, VA Mr. Betz directs the biotechnology and biopesticides practice for this environmental consulting firm. He advises companies in regulatory strategy, provides technical advice on biopesticide matters, and assists with product registrations. These registrations include several of the first genetically engineered plant pesticides and the first genetically engineered microbial pesticides. Mr. Betz was the principal scientist and regulatory specialist at EPA, where he was responsible for biopesticide risk assessment and biotechnology policy. He received his M.S. in environmental engineering from the University of Florida. William Fry, Professor, Plant Pathology Department, Cornell University Dr. Fry conducts research on the integrated management and epidemiology of fungal pathogens. Areas of research emphasis include: integrated management of potato late blight; epidemiology of potato late blight; genetics of Phytophthora infestans and its interaction with host plants; and population genetics and migrations of P. infestans. Dr. Fry's research also involves genetic analysis and modeling for the detection of plant and pathogen resistance. He is a Fellow of the American Phytopathological Society and a Past President of the Society. Dr. Fry received his Ph.D. from Cornell University in 1970. Fred Gould, William Neal Reynolds Professor, Department of Entomology, North Carolina State University Dr. Gould's expertise is in the ecological, genetic, and chemical aspects of plant/herbivore interactions. In particular, he is conducting seminal work on resistance management strategies for transgenic crops containing Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) insecticidal genes. Dr. Gould has served on several NRC committees including the Committee on the Future Role of Pesticides in Agriculture and on the Committee on Biological Pest and Pathogen Control. He was involved in the NRC report titled Ecologically Based Pest Management: New Solutions for a New Century (1995). Dr. Gould received his Ph.D. from SUNY at Stony Brook in 1977. Ernest Hodgson, William Neal Reynolds Professor of Toxicology, North Carolina State University Dr. Hodgson's areas of expertise are pesticide metabolism and toxicology. In particular, his lab studies the induction and mechanism of human and rodent cytochrome P450 isoforms in oxidizing agricultural chemicals. Dr. Hodgson has authored well-known basic textbooks of toxicology, A Textbook of Modern Toxicology and An Introduction to Biochemical Toxicology. He served on the NRC committee which authored the report Carcinogens and Anticarcinogens in the Human Diet: A Comparison of Naturally Occurring and Synthetic Substances (1996) and is the editor of the Journal of Biochemical and Molecular Toxicology. Dr Hodgson received his Ph.D. in Biochemistry from Oregon State University in 1960. Tobi Jones, Special Assistant for Special Projects and Public Outreach, Department of Pesticide Regulation, California Environmental Protection Agency Dr. Jones is recognized as a national expert in state and federal pesticide regulatory programs, and emerging regulatory issues affecting genetically engineered organisms. She has a strong working knowledge of evolving biotechnology regulation and genetic engineering issues. Dr. Jones is an experienced manager of science-based regulatory programs, serves as the state agency's representative at the national level, and chairs the national committee of state pesticide officials that advises U.S. EPA on federal-state partnership issues. Dr. Jones received her Ph.D. in microbiology from Northwestern University. Brian Larkins, Porterfield Professor of Plant Sciences, Department of Plant Sciences, University of Arizona Dr. Larkins was elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 1996 for his outstanding research on the control of gene expression and protein synthesis during seed development in maize. His current work involves studying mutations that alter the synthesis of maize seed storage proteins and has important implications for increasing the nutritional quality of grains. Dr. Larkins has published extensively in prestigious journals such as Science and PNAS. He received his Ph.D. from the University of Nebraska. Morris Levin, Professor, University of Maryland and Biotechnology Institute's Center for Public Issues in Biotechnology Dr. Levin has extensive experience with risk assessment for genetically engineered organisms both in the federal government and in academia. He has been employed by the Department of Defense and the Department of Interior as an environmental microbiologist. Dr. Levins was in Biotechnology Risk Assessment at the EPA and continues to do risk assessment research at the University of Maryland. He has edited several books including the recent publication Engineered Organisms in Environmental Settings: Biotechnological and Agricultural Applications (1996). Dr. Levin received his Ph.D. in Bacteriology and Biophysics from the University of Rhode Island. Erik Lichtenberg, Professor, Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics, University of Maryland Dr. Lichtenberg has conducted extensive research on productivity and environmental tradeoffs of pesticide regulation, economics of pesticide regulation, and risk-reducing and risk-increasing effects of pesticide regulation. He has served as the Senior Agricultural and Natural Resources Economist on the President's Council of Economic Advisers, as a consultant to the pesticide industry and to EPA, and as an advisor to USDA and EPA. Dr. Lichtenberg received his Ph.D. in agricultural and resource economics from the University of California at Berkeley. (As a regulator, he cannot speak out against GE. It is said that he is pro-GE, and was used to promote the USDA move on organic standards.) Allison Snow, Associate Professor, Department of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, Ohio State University Dr. Snow has conducted important research on gene flow and hybridization in several crop-weed systems. Her lab uses molecular techniques to investigate transgene escape to weedy relatives of crops. Dr. Snow's current research focuses on the effects of transgenic insect resistance on herbivory and fitness in wild sunflowers. Dr. Snow has published extensively on the ecological implications of genetically modified crops and has been an associate editor for the journals Ecology and Evolution. She served on the steering committee for the recent USDA Workshop on the Ecological Effects of Pest Resistance Genes in Managed Ecosystems. Dr. Snow received her Ph.D. in Botany from the University of Massachusetts in 1982. (Her work is mainly used to promote biotechnology, and squash research that hurts biotechnology by being used as a peer reviewer of grant application and journal articles.) Brian Staskawicz, Professor, Department of Plant and Microbial Biology, University of California, Berkeley Dr. Staskawicz's work has greatly contributed to understanding the molecular interactions between plants and their pathogens. He was recently elected to the National Academy of Sciences for elucidating the mechanisms of disease resistance, as his lab was the first to clone an avirulence gene from a pathogen and among the first to demonstrate the interaction of plant resistance genes with genes from plant pathogens. Dr. Staskawicz's research focuses on the interaction of the bacteria, Pseudomonas and Xanthomonas, with Arabidopsis, tomato and pepper. He has published extensively in this area in journals such as Science, PNAS, and Nature. Dr. Staskawicz received his Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley in 1980. Comment on Committee Membership http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument The public comment period lasts twenty days from date of Committee Membership Posting. You have 13 day(s) remaining to provide comments. We welcome your feedback on the Committee Membership. You must copy the Project Identification Number at the top of this form, and then paste it into your feedback message. -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ ---- For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the Ban-GEF list, send email to Ban-GEF@lists.txinfinet.com with HELP in the SUBJECT line. ---- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= RFC822 Headers Follow =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- X-ENSMTPTo: ban-gef X-ENSMTPSubnet: txinfinet Received: from lists.greenbuilder.com (216.171.28.120) by [216.171.28.2] with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.2); Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:53:47 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 03:45:00 GMT From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) To: Ban-GEF@lists.txinfinet.com Message-ID: <328859646.47046075@greenbuilder.com> X-Processed-By: HSKT 1.0 by Joshua Baer Subject: B-GE: Panel membership's biotech leanings (Nat'l Acad Sciences) -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 16:31:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13594 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:31:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07443 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:06:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07143 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:05:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000107674 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:02:18 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:02:39 GMT Subject: Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech policy, laws Message-ID: <1658056702.50141038@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 183 This is an alert that I hope you will help with. We only have 2 weeks to make a loud noise about this bogus review panel. It is felt that if we do not and the panel succeeds in their goal of a major PR coup, in a few months it will be much harder for the US public to hear us. We have them running already, let's keep it up. Supporting documents are included or will follow. Thank you for any help you can give. Judy ------- Urgent Action Needed - Biased panel to set US biotech policy, laws The National Academy of Sciences will begin a "fast track" study on April 8 in order to give GE foods a rubber stamp of approval - by investigating the benefits and potential risks of genetically engineered crops with an eye toward recommending changes in government regulations. (see article below) The NAS study is an attempt to minimize the effect on the US public of the European furor over GE food. The NAS is a highly respected body, and supposedly "independent," so it has the power to pull off a major biotech PR coup. The NAS is largely responsible for the US policy on biotech. Since the 70's it has promoted GE to Congress, to the Carter, Reagan, Bush, and Clinton Administrations, to Wall Street investors, federal agencies, etc. Also, the NAS is under the thumb of Monsanto, et al, and under pressure to show the biotech flag. Plus it wants to protect its reputation. The study is expected to be narrow in scope, and will conclude that there are some problems which can be handled, and that the benefits far outweigh the risks. As Joe Cummins says, it "will show the bias of the committee and serve as a public relations scheme to revive the worldwide image of biotechnology." Please note: 1. The panel is stacked in favor of the biotech companies (you can see for yourself in a separate post (with biotech interest emboldened or explained) or by going to this URL http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument 2. Usually NAS studies take 18 months but this study will take 1/3 that time - 6 months. 3. The review is unannounced. Monsanto was upset when they heard that the author of the article knew about it. LET THE NAS KNOW WE ARE WATCHING AND THAT THEY CAN'T DO A WASH JOB. What you can do: 1) We have until April 8 to flood the NAS with comments on the NAS Committee membership - demand they reveal any biotech conflicts of interest. A response form is set up on the NAS website (sample letter below): http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument Project ID is BANR-O-99-02-A. Here you can e-mail the NAS directly, access the committee membership, and the project scope. 2) Send the article below and this information to as many environmental organizations, websites, listserves, etc., as possible so their members can send their responses to the NAS as soon as possible. 3) Contact your Congressperson asking them to inquire whether the panel members are really objective. 4) Contact media telling them to follow up on the story. Send them the article with a cover letter (2 samples below). Sample letter for website: Dear NAS, I am concerned that the committee that is reviewing the health, safety, and environmental impact of genetically engineered agricultural products is made up primarily of scientists that derive their livelihood from genetic engineering, work for organizations who rely on grants from bio-engineering companies, or are official regulators of the technology (and therefore cannot easily take a public stand against it). It would almost appear that the role of this committee is to get an NAS rubber stamp to proceed, while many scientists in the US, Europe and Asia are questioning the long-term environmental impact of this technology. - Ornithologists and entymologists are concerned about the destruction of beneficial insects (through Bt ingestion) and mass death of birds that prey on these (and pest) insects. - Ecologists are concerned about horizontal gene transfer to similar species of plants (through cross-pollination), recombination of plant viruses used as the DNA transfer mechanism, and genetic pollution of the biosphere. - Agronomists are concerned about the massive transformation of the biodiversity of food plant species to monocultures. - Economists are concerned about the transformation of entire rural economies from subsistence horticulture to cash commodity agriculture. - Medical doctors are concerned that the enzymes and proteins expressed by the inserted or modified genes may have adverse health effects, such as the increase in allergy to RRS soybeans found in Europe. Yet none of the many scientifically credentialed critics of agricultural genetic engineering have been included on the committee destined to provide a review of this technology in the name of the National Academy of Sciences. Without such members on the committee, and an unrestricted open debate about the full range of issues, any report that the committee prepares will, by its very nature, be discredited before it is published. I strongly urge you to reconsider the membership of the committee to include serious critics of the technology, so as to make them at least 50% of the membership of the committee. Sincerely, -------- Sample letter - media 1: Dear Editor, On April 8, 1999 the U.S. National Academy of Sciences is going to begin a "fast track" study to investigate the risks and benefits of genetically modified (GM) crops. NAS Studies usually take about 18 months but this study is expected to be completed in six months. Biotech companies like Monsanto, Dupont, and Dow have invested billons of dollars in GM food crops. They are now facing a meltdown of public trust in Europe and the possibility of that happening in the United States. The NAS panel is stacked in favor of the biotech companies. We believe they are behind this "fast-track' NAS study in order to gain a rubber stamp approval for their products.. The URL for the NAS Committee on Genetically Modified Crops is: http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument Below please find an article by Journalist Bill Lambrecht of the St. Louis Post regarding the NAS study. Sincerely, ------- Sample letter - media 2: Dear Editor, On April 8, 1999 the U.S. National Academy of Sciences is going to begin a "fast track" study to investigate the risks and benefits of genetically modified (GM) crops. NAS Studies usually take about 18 months but this study is expected to be completed in 6 months. Biotech companies like Monsanto, Dupont, and Dow have invested billons of dollars in GM food crops. They are now facing a meltdown of public trust in Europe and the possibility of that happening in the United States. The furor has reached firestorm proportions in other parts of the world, with people burning and uprooting biotech plots, UK MPs calling Monsanto "Public Enemy #1", supermarkets declaring themselves Genetic Engineering-free zones, the European Union potentially blockading against GM foods, and Brazil halting all GM seeds. Farmers in the US have eagerly bought into the biotech revolution, unaware of the environmental problems and potentially catastrophic economic downside: inability to sell their crop and contamination of their land and grain silos if the furor spreads to US consumers. Thus an immediate whitewash of the technology is crucial for these biotech food giants and their contractors, supporters, and farm clients. We believe that is the impetus behind this "fast-track" NAS study. The composition of the NAS panel is telling because it is heavily stacked in favor of the biotech industry. Monsanto, Dupont, and Dow already exert powerful influence in several critical parts of the federal government: trade, FDA, USDA, EPA, and the President and VP. A rubber stamp of the National Academy of Sciences might overcome the objections of many researchers and activists if they don't have the full story in front of them, and would influence the decisions of regulatory agencies abroad. The URL for the NAS Committee on Genetically Modified Crops is: http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument Below please find an article by Journalist Bill Lambrecht of the St. Louis Post regarding the NAS study. Sincerely, ------- Altered crops will get safety review By Bill Lambrecht St. Louis Post-Dispatch Washington Bureau The National Academy of Sciences is beginning an urgent study of the benefits and potential risks of genetically engineered crops with an eye toward recommending changes in government regulations. Over the next six months, a special committee of 13 scientists and experts chosen by the National Research Council, which is an arm of the National Academy of Sciences, will examine not only safety issues but social and economic implications of plants modified with pesticide genes. That includes most genetically engineered crops. Studies by the research council usually take about 18 months. But the new effort will be conducted in a third of that time because of pressing questions in need of answers, said the study's director, Michael Phillips. "Because of the urgency of this matter, we can't wait two years to slowly put out a statement," Phillips said. "There are a lot of questions, and the longer something like this lingers, it creates concern in the industry and society in general." The science academy did not formally announce its study; a list of the members selected for the special committee appeared without fanfare on the academy's Web site this week. Members will gather in Washington to begin their work on April 8. The study is especially important for St. Louis-based Monsanto Co., the global leader in genetic technologies for farming and food. Philip Angell, Monsanto's director of communications, said his company welcomes the government's review. "We're confident in the science, we're confident in the technology," Angell said. "This is certainly a distinguished body that we believe will validate what we've always known about this." The National Academy of Sciences serves as a scientific adviser to the U.S. government, but it is not a government agency. It has about 1,600 members chosen for their achievements. New members are elected by the full membership. Usually, Congress or government agencies request and pay for studies by the academy's research council, but occasionally - about 1 in 10 times - the academy initiates its own study and pays for it from its endowment. This study is one of the occasional exceptions. At a meeting on Dec. 9 in Washington, the academy members agreed to conduct the genetic engineering study and to assume the cost of about $300,000. The academy has not issued a report on genetically engineered crops in a decade. During that time, plantings of such crops in the United States have soared to more than 50 million acres. The new study will examine field trials and laboratory studies that have taken place in the 1990s. Part of the urgency has to do with forthcoming Environmental Protection Agency regulations. Those rules, which have been in the works since 1994, will govern farming with crops engineered to produce a protein that kills pests. For instance, farmers would need to maintain refuges - areas planted with conventional varieties - adjacent to the modified crops. Recently, the EPA has said that it will apply the rules sparingly. Nonetheless, many scientists, among them Washington State University's R. James Cook, believe that the EPA rules and definitions are too broadly drawn and need to be scaled back. "Call us naive academics if you want, but many of us believe that they scooped up too much to regulate," Cook said. These scientists appealed to the national academy, which agreed to begin the study. In other words, the study was initiated not because of concerns that there may be too little regulation but because of worries about too much regulation. No matter how it came about, the study is certain to have broad implications. In Europe, Asia and parts of South America, a debate is raging about the safety, morality and politics of altering the genetic code of food. That debate is beginning to sound in the United States. To answer skeptics, Monsanto and rivals argue that good science and a sound regulatory system in the United States underpin their new technologies. Here and abroad, the new study could validate those arguments. Or, it might identify where more study is needed and better rules are needed. Margaret Mellon, of the Union of Concerned Scientists in Washington, said her organization is pleased that the academy's study will take place even though it was generated by fears of over-regulation. "We have long been concerned that there is so little risk assessment being done and so few data being collected to see if the risks are present or not," Mellon said. "If this is a forum to see if there are risks, that is fine." For different reasons, Monsanto and environmental advocates want to keep the EPA rules that helped to generate the new study. The environmentalists want strict regulations because of what they see as unknown risks, such as the outcrossing - or escape - of genes into the wild. Companies assert that their technologies pose little or no risk that would require any new regulations that might result from the study. But, Monsanto's Angell said, companies need reasonable regulations for their genetic technologies to take root. -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 16:48:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13909 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA21146 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:55:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21077 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:58:04 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: SAN Calendar of Events updated Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:57:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 184 Sanet, We have recently added a number of workshops, conferences, etc. to the SAN Calendar of Events. Please see http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/events/ to view or search the calendar. Add your sustainable agriculture events from http://www.sare.org/wreg/deposit_form_usr.pl Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 20:33:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18870 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:33:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA11487 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:50:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [209.198.87.34]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11468 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:49:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from oemcomputer (arc0a328.bf.sover.net [209.198.83.236]) by pike.sover.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA10999 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:49:48 -0500 (EST) Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on pike.sover.net) oemcomputer from arc0a328.bf.sover.net [209.198.83.236] 209.198.83.236 Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:49:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101be77ec$0c7a9560$ec53c6d1@oemcomputer> Reply-To: "farm connection" From: "farm connection" To: "sanet" Subject: re sanet 925 capitalism Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:51:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BE77C2.0DA48880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 185 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BE77C2.0DA48880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable dave wrote 'capitalism works well in that it does provide incentives to = innovate,=20 improve, be efficient, etc. ' =20 my perception is that capitalism only works until the parasitic class = has sucked the host dry - when the productive people can no longer = provide enough tangible wealth for the speculator and middleman to = profit sufficiently, capitalism will no longer exist ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BE77C2.0DA48880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
dave wrote 'capitalism works = well in that=20 it does provide incentives to innovate,
improve, be efficient, etc.=20 '  
 
 my perception is that capitalism only works until the = parasitic class=20 has sucked the host dry - when the productive people can no longer = provide=20 enough tangible wealth for the speculator and middleman to profit = sufficiently,=20 capitalism will no longer exist
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BE77C2.0DA48880-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Mar 26 23:40:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA21197 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:40:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA09550 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:00:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA09466 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:59:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15320 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from greg (tnt-11-6.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.150]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA21650 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:35:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199903270435.XAA21650@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Subject: John Deere's FURROW publication Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:58:22 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 186 The number of sustainable ag articles in John Deere's publication lately is quite amazing. John Deere's latest publication is getting a little "scary". Actually, I was impressed! It sure looks like they are starting to bypass traditional agriculture in search of a market for their equipment. There was an article about a $50 million per year antibiotic free grass fed beef business and the growing natural meat business, an article about better utilising N on a 500 acre farm, an article about organic grain production, an article about a pasture hog farm in Iowa, an article about pasture poultry production, an article about pumpkin production, an article about the need for crop rotations for bean production, an article about combining sheep grazing and golf courses, an article about tourism money from morel mushrooms. Are they starting to see that a handful of big farms are not going to create a very big market for their products? Do we have a huge ally to sustainable agriculture here? I'm a 100 acre hog farmer with one tractor and a 4 wheeler. Neither one is green but I can surely see the market potential if every 100 acres across the country had a tractor(preferably green in JD's eyes) and a John Deere Gator 4-wheeler. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 00:13:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21622 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:13:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA23846 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:33:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA23817 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000107999 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:30:03 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 04:30:29 GMT Subject: GE crop safety study & National Research Council Report Message-ID: <3295121375.52406514@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 187 Joe Cummins (Prof Emeritus of Genetics at the University of Western Ontario) is talking below about the report the NRC (affiliated with the new NAS panel study discussed in the previous post) published in 1989 which set up US biotech policy 10 years ago. They are set to do it again in less than 2 weeks, to declare their safety - an attempt to minimize the effect on the US public of the European furor over GE food. http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument ------ Dr. Joe Cummins e-mail: jcummins@julian.uwo.ca Comments on National Research council Report "Field testing Genetically Modified Organisms,"1989 The United States National Research Council has proposed a panel of experts in biotechnology (including a lawyer!) to review the safety of genetically modified crops. The current effort will follow a report from the US National Research Council of a decade ago. That report "Field Testing Genetically Modified Organisms-Framework for Decisions" 1989 has had tremendous impact and led the way to release of genetically engineered crops to the environment around the world. The report was prepared by committees under a steering committee chaired by Robert Burris, University of Wisconsin( Burris had been a member of my PhD advisory committee in the late 1950s to 1962). Burris was an able science bureaucrat and politician, his area was biochemistry of nitrogen fixation, he did not know much in the way of genetics. That observation was true of the majority of the committees writing the report. The report is available in most University libraries world wide. The NRC was not exactly dishonest in areas such as the spread of modified genes in pollen in crops such as canola . The report provided opinions geared to facilitate rapid release of modified crops , It provided false assurance that genes would not be spread in a threatening way by pollen release. Ignoring reality it maintained that crops were either foreign introductions with few or no weedy relatives or crops like wheat with multiple combined genomes that preclude gene spread by pollen. It is clear that the report promoted crop release that has resulted in wide spread of the modified genes. The report's risk analyses were political statements geared to promote the fledgling biotechnology industry. The current committee seems to have been selected to do a political job of work on the opponents of genetic engineering ( it was shameless in excluding opponents of genetic engineering). The document produced by the committee will show the bias of the committee and serve as a public relations scheme to revive the worldwide image of biotechnology. Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:56:05 -0500 From: joe cummins Subject: B-GE: National Research Council committees -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 00:18:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21688 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:18:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA26842 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:41:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA26716 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:41:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.119.60.114] (pa-ppp29.hevanet.com [204.119.60.114]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA20367; Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:41:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903270441.UAA20367@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:43:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Deserves a profit? From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Roberto Verzola CC: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 188 30 years ago in college I heard many of these same arguments. I got tired of them then, and they aren't any more interesting now. No system works worth a damn unless the people in it do. When people take responsibility for their actions and put the other person first, the "system" works, no matter WHAT it is. Now, can we please go back to discussion of actual sustained agriculture techniques? ---------- >From: Roberto Verzola >To: dan.worley@mindless.com >Subject: Re: Deserves a profit? >Date: Fri, Mar 26, 1999, 11:08 AM > > >The capitalism vs. socialism discussion is very relevant to this list, >as I explain below, and I'd like to pursue it further: > > > And for those who think socialism is a better way than capitalism, I > >think you can now purchase an airline ticket to Cuba; one way. > >Socialism -- Cuban or Russian or Chinese style -- is not the only >alternative to capitalism. There is a growing body of literature >worldwide which represents a range of alternatives which does not >subscribe to the Marxist-Leninist principles of Cuba, etc. For want of >a better term, I'd call them the Green alternatives. They reject the >highly monopolistic "free" market approach of capitalism as well as >the centrally-planned "people's" dictatorship of socialism. You can't >have missed these... > >The Green alternatives differ from the socialist one in several ways >at least: >- we prefer decentralized to centralized approaches, and consider the >community as important a locus of human activity as the nation, if not >more; >- we recognize the spiritual as much as the material aspects of >reality; >- we don't look at nature simply as raw material for production but as >our common ecological home with other living things. > >>From the Green viewpoint, socialism and capitalism are two social >expressions of what might be called industrialism, which is focused on >large-scale material production in pursuit of progress. > >This discussion is very relevant to ecological agriculture, because >industrialism approaches agriculture in the same way it approaches the >manufacturing industries. In doing so, it misses the core difference >between industry and agriculture. > >Industry involves transforming raw materials into finished goods >through the application of human labor (often enhanced by machines). >Industry is really about dead matter. If the raw material is alive, it >often has to be killed before it becomes suitable for the industrial >process. Typical operations include: cutting, sawing, melting, >punching, etc. > >Agriculture is about living matter, which goes through its own process >of living growth independent of human intervention. The farmer's role, >unlike that of the worker, is simply to enhance, take care, support, >etc. a living process. Industrial agriculture applies to living >processes methods which are suitable for dead matter and therefore >runs into all kinds of problems. This industrialist approach to >agriculture is a common feature of both capitalism and socialism. >Genetic engineering is a further development of this industrialist >approach to agriculture. > >As for Cuba and the U.S.A.: it is true that more Cubans want to go to >the US than vice versa. But the comparison is somewhat unfair because >Cuba has been a target of a cruel economic embargo for decades and can >only rely on its own limited resources. The embargo, coupled with the >mistakes of the Cuban socialist regime (like relying on the former >USSR and on sugar exports instead of building a self-sufficient >economy), puts the Cuban people through a lot of hardships which many >understandably want to escape from. The U.S., on the other hand, >benefits from American control over huge resources outside their own >borders. Through their unsustainable use of these resources, many >Americans artificially, though temporarily, enjoy a better life than >others. If Americans had to rely purely on their own resources as much >as the Cubans do, the American smugness about their superior standard >of living might dissipate quickly. > >In fact, the decades of U.S. blockade against Cuba has forced the >Castro regime to adopt "Greenish" policies in some areas. It would be >interesting how things would turn out if a socialist country like Cuba >abandons socialism but transforms itself into a Green society rather >than back to capitalism. > >Finally, on democracy and the "free" market: at the core of today's >global capitalism are the corporations, many of which are economically >larger than most of the world's nations. Internally, a corporation is >as top-down and dictatorial as you can imagine. Internally too, the >corporation is a centrally-planned economy, not a free market. There >are more similarities between a corporation and a one-party State than >initially meets the eye. > >Regards to all, > >Roberto Verzola >Philippine Greens > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 02:06:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA22890 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:06:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA15853 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:27:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA15780 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:27:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA17401 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 01:26:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from p2 (ppp02-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.2]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA24582; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:25:57 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" , Subject: Soy bean allergies/unsaturated oils Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:35:40 +1100 Message-ID: <000b01be781c$0867f280$023325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <120923874D4@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 189 Ann Clark wrote: >What happens to you and me when we eat grain, vegetable oil, or french fries made from plant parts which have accumulated glyphosate (if indeed, this happens)? >Could this be a factor in the 50% increase in soybean-related allergies recently reported by a lab at York University in the UK? They reportedly tested 4500 people for potential vegetable-related allergies (using blood antibody levels as the indicator, coupled with other symptoms) and for the first time in 17 years, soybean was in It seems to me that the arrival of soybean allergy records could reflect the marked increase in soy consumption in the western diet. People did not have it to react to before. But... Contrary to popular preferences, I am successfully treating a chronic illness by (inter alia) avoiding legumes and unsaturated oils of whatever origin. The consumption of unsaturated oils in large quantities is also of course a relatively recent phenomenon too. Legumes depress thyroid and mitochondrial function (both respiration and steroidogenesis) and unsaturated oils by definition 'rancidify' at body temperature, and combining with free radicals (active oxygen species, products of defective mitochondrial performance) have various toxic effects. In SANET messages recently there was some discussion of whether soils deteriorate if they stay under legume crops. There may be some impact on the respiratory capacity and hormonal health of soil macroorganisms from persistent legume monoculture - I speculate. But certainly if you feed rape seed or soy to pigs [seem Medline abstract below] you have to counter consequential functional hypothyroidism, and the same will be or should be the case for humans. The impact of high legume/high unsaturated oil intake in people is likely to include, among diverse symptoms, not appropriate to get off onto here, increased chemical sensitivity and allergy. My understanding is that 'locked up' glyphosate may reduce mycorrhezal activity in soil. I doubt that anything is understood as to its impact on the cytosol of larger animals. It should not be presumed inert, in my view. I know banana farmers who directly relate their bouts of fatigue and dizziness, etc, to use of glyphosate. Dennis Title [Testing of extracted particles from winter rapeseed with different glucosinolate levels in swine with special reference to the iodine supply. 2. Thyroid hormone status, histomorphometric findings and iodine content of the thyroid gland] Author Schone F; Groppel B; Jahreis G; Seffner W; Ludke H; Hennig A Address Agrarwissenschaftliche Fakultat Universitat Leipzig. Source Arch Tierernahr, 41(5):487-99 1991 Jun Abstract In the experiment, 2 x 12 growing pigs received 19 or 6.7 mmol glucosinolates + aglucones/kg feed via conventional rapeseed meal (RSM) or RSM of a newly bred variety. These pigs and 24 littermates pair fed with a soya bean meal (SBM) diet were subdivided in groups of 4 animals each. Their diet contained either no supplementary iodine or an iodine supplementation of up to 1 mg/kg feed. In the RSM and SBM groups the lack of additional iodine lowered the serum T4 and T3 content below the detection limit and caused goitre with about 1 mg iodine in the total thyroid. The SBM diet with 0.0625 mg supplementary iodine/kg increased the serum T4 level and reversed the thyroid enlargement but not that of epithelial cells. The hypothyroidism (goitre and serum T4 level approximately 10 nmol/l) still existed in the case of this iodine dosage together with the RSM of the newly bred variety. A serum T4 level comparable to that of the animals fed SBM was only reached by supplementing the low glucosinolate diet with 0.25 mg iodine/kg feed. The iodine content of the thyroid, however, was reduced by 50 per cent. Though thyroid and epithelial cells were enlarged, this enlargement was not so obvious as in animals exposed to higher glucosinolate level. In spite of 1 mg supplementary iodine/kg feed, the feeding of the conventional RSM resulted in a lower serum T4 level a reduced thyroid iodine content and the enlargement of thyroid and that of epithelial cells. Compared to the high glucosinolate RSM, a significantly lower antithyroid effect of the low glucosinolate RSM was found in pigs with iodine supply. The degree of thyroid enlargement and the serum T4 level were the criteria. Language Ger Unique Identifier 92061542 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- MESH Headings Animal ; Animal Feed * ; Brassica ; English Abstract ; Glucosinolates *AD ; Goiter ET/VE ; Hypothyroidism ET/VE ; Iodine *AD/AN/DF ; Soybeans ; Swine GD/*ME ; Swine Diseases ET ; Thyroid Gland CH/PA/*PH ; Thyroid Hormones BL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Publication Type JOURNAL ARTICLE ISSN 0003-942X Country of Publication GERMANY CAS Registry Number 0 (Glucosinolates); 0 (Thyroid Hormones); 7553-56-2 (Iodine) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 05:40:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA24462 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:40:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA00241 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 04:56:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA17967 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 04:53:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp230.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.230]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id FAA25856; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 05:56:40 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 04:06:40 -0400 To: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David), sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Daniel Worley Subject: Re: A New Perspective of... In-Reply-To: <199903251447.IAA02254@supermail.globaldialog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 190 At 08:47 3/25/99 -0600, Greg David wrote: >For any system to function, it first of all, has to be a democracy. We no >longer have that here. We have an oligarchy, or as Jim Hightower likes to >say, 'A cleptocracy...Government by Thieves". > >Capitalism, socialism, communism and any other 'ism', will not work unless >it is based in democracy! The experiments based on Carl Marx's work were not >democratic, and they failed. But that does not mean that a democratic form >of socialism could not work. > >And I'm not saying that is what I endorse. I think a democratic capitalistic >system, that is held accountable for it's action could be a very pausible >for of government. You have some very good points Greg (including much of what I clipped out). I would like to take minor exception with one point though. Democracy when applied to anything larger than a small community, is too unwieldy to work and is only one very small step above anarchy. What we are supposed to have in the US (and no longer do have) is a Republic. I will not attempt to go into the differences here, nor how we got away from the original republic to the current modified democracy with the extremely powerful corporations actually running things from behind the scenes for the indecent profit for a few elite. But a part of the methods used are the same as those being used to attempt to justify the use of prison labor for profit. And a controlled press is a major part of that. --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- dan.worley@mindless.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 12:07:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27858 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:07:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13835 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:37:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vortex.uwaterloo.ca (root@vortex.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.42.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13811 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:37:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [129.97.112.42] (cnts1p42.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.112.42]) by vortex.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02609 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:37:47 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mj2patte@vortex.uwaterloo.ca) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:36:10 -0500 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mary Jane Patterson Subject: Alternatives Journal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 191 This posting is about a resource for those teaching courses in sustainable agriculture. The latest issue of Alternatives Journal, "Reaping What We Sow", focuses on agriculture and food policy, and we think it could be a useful text for university-level courses on sustainable agriculture. Alternatives Journal is a quarterly magazine on environmental thought, policy and action, published by the Faculty of Environmental Studies at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada. "Reaping What We Sow" includes these feature articles: a) Bitter Fruit: our consumption of tropical fruit delivers soil erosion, deforestation, and loss of biodiversity to Southern producers. By Asoka Mendis and Caroline Van Bers. b) Mad Cows and Bad Berries: conventional approaches to solving agricultural problems can encourage old and new diseases. By David Waltner-Toews. c) Saving Seeds: farmers and gardeners are the best hope for protecting what remains of food plant diversity. By Bob Wildfong. If anyone is interested in ordering a copy of this special theme issue for review, or copies for use as a course text, please email me with your mailing address. Many thanks. Yours truly, Mary Jane Patterson Alternatives Journal ______________________________ Mary Jane Patterson mj2patte@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca ______________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 12:20:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28013 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:20:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA24636 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:54:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24593 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from computer (ip118.ts3.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.84.118]) by cyberus.ca (8.8.8/Cyberus Online Inc) with ESMTP id LAA22696; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:54:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903271654.LAA22696@cyberus.ca> From: "Gord Hawkes" To: "Greg David" , , "Daniel Worley" Subject: Wow Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:54:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 192 Marxism, Capitalism, Democracy, government, politics, philosophical navel gazing, is this the forum for this type of discussion? Could I suggest that maybe those willing to discuss issues that are on the periphery of sustainable agriculture do so among themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to stifle your freedom of speech and yes, I too have a delete key which allows me to be selective. But, can we steer discussion back to the issues of good old sustainable agriculture? I'm ready for the onslaught of comments and maybe I'm in the minority here, but thought I'd share my view. Maybe, if your discussion deals with subject matter that doesn't fall within the realm of sustainable agriculture you identify this in Subject line. Just my $.02 worth. Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, Ontario Canada ---------- > From: Daniel Worley > To: Greg David ; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: A New Perspective of... > Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 3:06 AM > > At 08:47 3/25/99 -0600, Greg David wrote: > > >For any system to function, it first of all, has to be a democracy. We no > >longer have that here. We have an oligarchy, or as Jim Hightower likes to > >say, 'A cleptocracy...Government by Thieves". > > > >Capitalism, socialism, communism and any other 'ism', will not work unless > >it is based in democracy! The experiments based on Carl Marx's work were not > >democratic, and they failed. But that does not mean that a democratic form > >of socialism could not work. > > > >And I'm not saying that is what I endorse. I think a democratic capitalistic > >system, that is held accountable for it's action could be a very pausible > >for of government. > > You have some very good points Greg (including much of what I clipped > out). I would like to take minor exception with one point though. > Democracy when applied to anything larger than a small community, is too > unwieldy to work and is only one very small step above anarchy. > > What we are supposed to have in the US (and no longer do have) is a > Republic. I will not attempt to go into the differences here, nor how we > got away from the original republic to the current modified democracy with > the extremely powerful corporations actually running things from behind the > scenes for the indecent profit for a few elite. But a part of the methods > used are the same as those being used to attempt to justify the use of > prison labor for profit. And a controlled press is a major part of that. > > > --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- > dan.worley@mindless.com > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 12:21:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28034 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25509 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:57:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA25493 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:57:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903271657.LAA25493@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.107] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id ADA39DD0172; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:56:03 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:53:09 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Farm Management (was Deserves a profit?) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 193 On 26 Mar 99 22:50:33, Roberto Verzola wrote: >But you'll have to start asking yourself eventually what >is it that is pushing sus ag farmers towards bankruptcy. In my experience it is only *some* sustag farmers, not all, just as it it *some* conventional farmers, not all. The problem is commonly that farmers need to think *more* like business people, not less. I say this on the basis of having worked directly with hundreds of farmers in several countries. Few farmers think like shareholders and CEOs, with the common result that they make consistently poor allocations of capital and seriously undermine the profitability of their business. Borrowing money at high (real) rates of interest to purchase expensive (and often oversized) assets that depreciate at 10-20% per year (declining balance basis) would not make a lot of sense in most businesses, yet farmers do it all the time. Not only do few farmers think like shareholders or CEOs, they rarely even think like Vice-presidents. Most companies have VPs for Finance, Operations, and Marketing. Altogether too many farmers, however, abrogate these roles to external people who are understandably trying to fatten their own bottom line. Thus the banker becomes the de facto VP Finance. Suppliers become VPs for Operations. Buyers take over as VP Marketing. The results are fairly predictable, and distressingly common. Profitable farms, on the other hand, have tended to duplicate the management structure of larger business, to the extent that when a farmer is working in the field (s)he is working according to a plan developed by the VP Production. The VP Production developed that plan to "deliver the numbers" to the CEO. The CEO determined those "numbers" in order to maximize return on investment to the owner(s). Everyone of those *roles* can be filled by the farm couple, but it is the style of thinking that generates sustainable profits, and is (sadly) widely lacking in today's farm businesses. When farmers start thinking like owners, profitability almost always improves. The small family business can be extraordinarily nimble, which can more than make up for the lack of financial resources and a truncated management structure. The key to success lies in duplicating the management functions of larger businesses in order to better exploit the *numerous* competitive advantages inherent in the very smallness of the typical family farm. Going head-to-head with ADM in the #2 yellow corn business is just plain dumb. I don't know whether to laugh or cry as I read all these posts that treat capitalism as just one more philosophy. Capitalism is not a philosophy. It is a *description* (albeit incomplete and imperfect) of the way things work. Fire can cook your supper and keep you warm --- or it can burn down your house --- but the physics and chemistry of fire are not a matter of philosophy, and treating them as such greatly increases the chances of a house fire. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 13:33:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA28712 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:33:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA25754 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:44:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25713 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from [198.5.254.132] (br-ppp29.hevanet.com [198.5.254.132]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15721; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:44:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903271744.JAA15721@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:47:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Wow From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Gord Hawkes CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 194 Thank you Gord. I was beginning to wonder if anyone else was as tired of this as I am. My problem with this is that it's DISCUSSION. Lots of lip music - no action or even suggestions. How many folks have taken the trouble to go out and help an individual farmer, i.e. teach him good sustainable methods, or do some real research to find things he CAN do? I work on developing new fruits that can be grown without chemical input, and I do it on my own. By this discussion, I should be getting tons of help from all over because I'm developing new plants to further sustag, but I don't. So I get seriously annoyed at people who carry on long discussions of deep philosophical and political problems and never DO a thing. That's why I want to learn TECHNIQUES - so I have things to teach others that I deal with. -Lon Rombough Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom ---------- >From: "Gord Hawkes" >To: "Greg David" , , "Daniel Worley" >Subject: Wow >Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999, 8:54 AM > >Marxism, Capitalism, Democracy, government, politics, philosophical navel >gazing, is this the forum for this type of discussion? Could I suggest >that maybe those willing to discuss issues that are on the periphery of >sustainable agriculture do so among themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm >not trying to stifle your freedom of speech and yes, I too have a delete >key which allows me to be selective. But, can we steer discussion back to >the issues of good old sustainable agriculture? I'm ready for the >onslaught of comments and maybe I'm in the minority here, but thought I'd >share my view. Maybe, if your discussion deals with subject matter that >doesn't fall within the realm of sustainable agriculture you identify this >in Subject line. > >Just my $.02 worth. > >Gord Hawkes >Log Cabin Orchard >Osgoode, Ontario >Canada > >---------- >> From: Daniel Worley >> To: Greg David ; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu >> Subject: Re: A New Perspective of... >> Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 3:06 AM >> >> At 08:47 3/25/99 -0600, Greg David wrote: >> >> >For any system to function, it first of all, has to be a democracy. We >no >> >longer have that here. We have an oligarchy, or as Jim Hightower likes >to >> >say, 'A cleptocracy...Government by Thieves". >> > >> >Capitalism, socialism, communism and any other 'ism', will not work >unless >> >it is based in democracy! The experiments based on Carl Marx's work were >not >> >democratic, and they failed. But that does not mean that a democratic >form >> >of socialism could not work. >> > >> >And I'm not saying that is what I endorse. I think a democratic >capitalistic >> >system, that is held accountable for it's action could be a very >pausible >> >for of government. >> >> You have some very good points Greg (including much of what I clipped >> out). I would like to take minor exception with one point though. >> Democracy when applied to anything larger than a small community, is too >> unwieldy to work and is only one very small step above anarchy. >> >> What we are supposed to have in the US (and no longer do have) is a >> Republic. I will not attempt to go into the differences here, nor how we >> got away from the original republic to the current modified democracy >with >> the extremely powerful corporations actually running things from behind >the >> scenes for the indecent profit for a few elite. But a part of the >methods >> used are the same as those being used to attempt to justify the use of >> prison labor for profit. And a controlled press is a major part of that. >> >> >> --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- >> dan.worley@mindless.com >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 13:34:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA28736 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 13:34:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29024 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:50:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28900 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:50:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from FLYLO (ppp210.cy-net.net [208.21.195.19]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA07369 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:50:26 -0600 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BE7846.772C7A40@FLYLO>; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:39:25 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE7846.772C7A40@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: query about old sheetrock Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:35:58 -0600 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 195 We have an old house that needs to be torn down. We are going to salvage the wood from it for reuse, but it was built in 1956, has sheetrock ceilings and walls. 'Experts' say sheetrock is primarily gypsum and should break down. We wanted to chip the stuff up and use it to level the driveways, not around food production. Has anyone any experience dealing with old sheetrock, and if it can't be applied in this manner, how can it be gotten rid of? thanks for any thoughts martha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 15:04:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29757 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 15:04:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA00579 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:27:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00475 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:27:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from computer (ip77.ts7.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.85.77]) by cyberus.ca (8.8.8/Cyberus Online Inc) with ESMTP id OAA24870 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:27:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903271927.OAA24870@cyberus.ca> From: "Gord Hawkes" To: "'sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: mouse damage Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:27:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 196 We have an organic orchard in eastern Ontario, Canada - two main problems in winter are deer and mice. Deer feed on the new growth and mice will girdle the bark of the tree at it's base. We have sustained considerable girdling damage this year and are looking for advice on the best means of preventing damage in future and how to properly bridge graft the damaged areas. Any assistance would be truly appreciated. thanks, Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, Ontario Canada K0A 2W0 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 20:23:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA03266 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:23:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA01141 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:15:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA01112 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:15:21 -0500 (EST) From: bartermn@epix.net Received: from LOCALNAME (twnd209-74-41ppp42.epix.net [209.74.41.42]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with SMTP id TAA10326 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:15:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FC549C.3162@epix.net> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:46:36 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sheetrock References: <199903272310.SAA19858@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 197 Martha wrote: > 'Experts' say sheetrock is primarily gypsum and should break down. We > wanted to chip the stuff up and use it to level the driveways, not > around food production. Has anyone any experience dealing with old > sheetrock, and if it can't be applied in this manner, how can it be > gotten rid of? Hi Martha, I'm no expert but as a carpenter most of my life, I have disposed of drywall in many ways. My favorite is to run it through a chipper and mix it into the compost piles. I have also piled it up outside and let the rains turn it to a mountain of white fill for rutts in my driveway, it gets pretty solid. I save lots of pieces in the shop, thinking I'd use them someday and never do, so they usually get thrown out to walk throught the mud or something and just deteriorate into the walkway. On a construction site we burn a lot of scrap wood and sometimes throw some drywall onto the fire but it usually gets scooped up later for backfill anyways...Good luck with the project. -- "For by your words you will be justified Keith Bellinger and by your words you will be condemned" bartermn@epix.net http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/1204/sonrise.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 22:06:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04207 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:06:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA08405 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:59:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA08393 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:59:02 -0500 (EST) From: bartermn@epix.net Received: from LOCALNAME (twnd216-37-154ppp197.epix.net [216.37.154.197]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with SMTP id UAA22427; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 20:58:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FC6D0D.6141@epix.net> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:30:53 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric D Nash CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sheetrock References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 198 Eric D Nash wrote: > > I wonder if there is > some minor ingredient in Sheetrock (r) (tm) which it's producer is not > required to tell us about, some unhealthy ingredient which is > 'proprietary' and unlisted? Anything's possible, Eric. The ingredients are listed below according to CGC, Canadian Gypsum Company Inc. Sheetrock contents: Gypsum or Calcium Sulphate Dihydrate Recycled Paper (Cellulose) Vermiculite Starch Crystalline Silica Paraffin Wax May contain the following: Fibrous Glass (Textile Grade) Boric Acid Potassium Sulphate All ingredients of this product are included in the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's Toxic Substances Control Act Chemical Substance Inventory. All components of this product are included in the Canadian Domestic Substances List (DSL) or the Canadian Non-Domestic Substances List (NDSL). -- "For by your words you will be justified Keith Bellinger and by your words you will be condemned" bartermn@epix.net http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/1204/sonrise.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Mar 27 23:50:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA06344 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 23:50:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA11304 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:46:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA11245 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 22:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn38tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.167]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA28186; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:46:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:46:54 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903280346.VAA28186@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Gord Hawkes" , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: Re: mouse damage Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 199 Hi Gord, How big is your orchard? Is it practicle to wrap your young trunks with a spiral plastic wrap for the mice? It works well in our friends nursury on our CSA farm, and in our small orchard. We also just got a Jack Russell Terrier(Terror). Any mice are going to have a hard time around the farm this year! Never seen a quicker, more persistant dog. She requiers some managemant, but it's worth it. They are not hard on bird populations like cats can be. If you decide to fence deer out, Iv'e heard a horizontal fence is more effective than a vertical fence. Many animals are more flustered by a 3 wires space at differing levels and different intervals, than three wires on the same post. Good luck. Greg >We have an organic orchard in eastern Ontario, Canada - two main problems >in winter are deer and mice. Deer feed on the new growth and mice will >girdle the bark of the tree at it's base. We have sustained considerable >girdling damage this year and are looking for advice on the best means of >preventing damage in future and how to properly bridge graft the damaged >areas. Any assistance would be truly appreciated. > >thanks, > >Gord Hawkes >Log Cabin Orchard >Osgoode, Ontario >Canada >K0A 2W0 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 09:04:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10289 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:04:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA29780 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:09:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp5.mindspring.com (smtp5.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29753 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:09:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from hp-customer (user-38ld0me.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.130.206]) by smtp5.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA01372 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:09:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990328081351.006d320c@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jenncastle@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:13:51 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: jennifer Castle Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #928 In-Reply-To: <199903272310.SAA19858@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 200 Hi I would like to order a copy of the Alternatives Journal issue you discussed. Jennifer Castle 839 West End Avenue #3B New York, NY 10025 Thank you Jennifer At 06:10 PM 3/27/99 -0500, you wrote: > >sanet-mg-digest Saturday, March 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 928 > > > >In this issue: > > Re: Deserves a profit? > Alternatives Journal > Wow > Farm Management (was Deserves a profit?) > Re: Wow > query about old sheetrock > mouse damage > >See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: 26 Mar 99 22:50:33 >From: Roberto Verzola >Subject: Re: Deserves a profit? > > >30 years ago in college I heard many of these same arguments. I got > >tired of them then, and they aren't any more interesting now. No > >system works worth a damn unless the people in it do. When people > >take responsibility for their actions and put the other person first, > >the "system" works, no matter WHAT it is. > > Now, can we please go back to discussion of actual sustained agriculture > >techniques? > >30 years ago, more people practiced sustainable agriculture. More and >more of them got marginalized. Many posts on this list have noted how >farms which practice ecologically sustainable agriculture are losing >out or going bankrupt. > >Like you, I do find discussions on actual sus ag techniques >interesting. But you'll have to start asking yourself eventually what >is it that is pushing sus ag farmers towards bankruptcy. > >Regards, > >Roberto Verzola > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:36:10 -0500 >From: Mary Jane Patterson >Subject: Alternatives Journal > >This posting is about a resource for those teaching courses in sustainable >agriculture. The latest issue of Alternatives Journal, "Reaping What We >Sow", focuses on agriculture and food policy, and we think it could be a >useful text for university-level courses on sustainable agriculture. > >Alternatives Journal is a quarterly magazine on environmental thought, >policy and action, published by the Faculty of Environmental Studies at the >University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada. > >"Reaping What We Sow" includes these feature articles: > >a) Bitter Fruit: our consumption of tropical fruit delivers soil erosion, >deforestation, and loss of biodiversity to Southern producers. By Asoka >Mendis and Caroline Van Bers. > >b) Mad Cows and Bad Berries: conventional approaches to solving >agricultural problems can encourage old and new diseases. By David >Waltner-Toews. > >c) Saving Seeds: farmers and gardeners are the best hope for protecting >what remains of food plant diversity. By Bob Wildfong. > >If anyone is interested in ordering a copy of this special theme issue for >review, or copies for use as a course text, please email me with your >mailing address. > >Many thanks. > >Yours truly, > >Mary Jane Patterson >Alternatives Journal > >______________________________ >Mary Jane Patterson >mj2patte@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca >______________________________ > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:54:18 -0500 >From: "Gord Hawkes" >Subject: Wow > >Marxism, Capitalism, Democracy, government, politics, philosophical navel >gazing, is this the forum for this type of discussion? Could I suggest >that maybe those willing to discuss issues that are on the periphery of >sustainable agriculture do so among themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm >not trying to stifle your freedom of speech and yes, I too have a delete >key which allows me to be selective. But, can we steer discussion back to >the issues of good old sustainable agriculture? I'm ready for the >onslaught of comments and maybe I'm in the minority here, but thought I'd >share my view. Maybe, if your discussion deals with subject matter that >doesn't fall within the realm of sustainable agriculture you identify this >in Subject line. > >Just my $.02 worth. > >Gord Hawkes >Log Cabin Orchard >Osgoode, Ontario >Canada > >- ---------- >> From: Daniel Worley >> To: Greg David ; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu >> Subject: Re: A New Perspective of... >> Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 3:06 AM >> >> At 08:47 3/25/99 -0600, Greg David wrote: >> >> >For any system to function, it first of all, has to be a democracy. We >no >> >longer have that here. We have an oligarchy, or as Jim Hightower likes >to >> >say, 'A cleptocracy...Government by Thieves". >> > >> >Capitalism, socialism, communism and any other 'ism', will not work >unless >> >it is based in democracy! The experiments based on Carl Marx's work were >not >> >democratic, and they failed. But that does not mean that a democratic >form >> >of socialism could not work. >> > >> >And I'm not saying that is what I endorse. I think a democratic >capitalistic >> >system, that is held accountable for it's action could be a very >pausible >> >for of government. >> >> You have some very good points Greg (including much of what I clipped >> out). I would like to take minor exception with one point though. >> Democracy when applied to anything larger than a small community, is too >> unwieldy to work and is only one very small step above anarchy. >> >> What we are supposed to have in the US (and no longer do have) is a >> Republic. I will not attempt to go into the differences here, nor how we >> got away from the original republic to the current modified democracy >with >> the extremely powerful corporations actually running things from behind >the >> scenes for the indecent profit for a few elite. But a part of the >methods >> used are the same as those being used to attempt to justify the use of >> prison labor for profit. And a controlled press is a major part of that. >> >> >> --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- >> dan.worley@mindless.com >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:53:09 >From: "Bluestem Associates" >Subject: Farm Management (was Deserves a profit?) > >On 26 Mar 99 22:50:33, Roberto Verzola wrote: > >>But you'll have to start asking yourself eventually what >>is it that is pushing sus ag farmers towards bankruptcy. > >In my experience it is only *some* sustag farmers, not all, just as it >it *some* conventional farmers, not all. The problem is commonly that >farmers need to think *more* like business people, not less. I say this >on the basis of having worked directly with hundreds of farmers in >several countries. > >Few farmers think like shareholders and CEOs, with the common result >that they make consistently poor allocations of capital and seriously >undermine the profitability of their business. Borrowing money at high >(real) rates of interest to purchase expensive (and often oversized) >assets that depreciate at 10-20% per year (declining balance basis) >would not make a lot of sense in most businesses, yet farmers do it all >the time. > >Not only do few farmers think like shareholders or CEOs, they rarely >even think like Vice-presidents. Most companies have VPs for Finance, >Operations, and Marketing. Altogether too many farmers, however, >abrogate these roles to external people who are understandably trying >to fatten their own bottom line. Thus the banker becomes the de facto >VP Finance. Suppliers become VPs for Operations. Buyers take over as >VP Marketing. The results are fairly predictable, and distressingly >common. > >Profitable farms, on the other hand, have tended to duplicate the >management structure of larger business, to the extent that when a >farmer is working in the field (s)he is working according to a plan >developed by the VP Production. The VP Production developed that plan >to "deliver the numbers" to the CEO. The CEO determined those "numbers" >in order to maximize return on investment to the owner(s). Everyone of >those *roles* can be filled by the farm couple, but it is the style of >thinking that generates sustainable profits, and is (sadly) widely >lacking in today's farm businesses. When farmers start thinking like >owners, profitability almost always improves. > >The small family business can be extraordinarily nimble, which can more >than make up for the lack of financial resources and a truncated >management structure. The key to success lies in duplicating the >management functions of larger businesses in order to better exploit >the *numerous* competitive advantages inherent in the very smallness of >the typical family farm. Going head-to-head with ADM in the #2 yellow >corn business is just plain dumb. > >I don't know whether to laugh or cry as I read all these posts that >treat capitalism as just one more philosophy. Capitalism is not a >philosophy. It is a *description* (albeit incomplete and imperfect) of >the way things work. Fire can cook your supper and keep you warm --- >or it can burn down your house --- but the physics and chemistry of >fire are not a matter of philosophy, and treating them as such greatly >increases the chances of a house fire. > >Bart Hall >Lawrence, Kansas > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 09:47:28 -0800 >From: "Lon J. Rombough" >Subject: Re: Wow > >Thank you Gord. I was beginning to wonder if anyone else was as tired of >this as I am. My problem with this is that it's DISCUSSION. Lots of lip >music - no action or even suggestions. How many folks have taken the >trouble to go out and help an individual farmer, i.e. teach him good >sustainable methods, or do some real research to find things he CAN do? I >work on developing new fruits that can be grown without chemical input, and >I do it on my own. By this discussion, I should be getting tons of help >from all over because I'm developing new plants to further sustag, but I >don't. So I get seriously annoyed at people who carry on long discussions >of deep philosophical and political problems and never DO a thing. >That's why I want to learn TECHNIQUES - so I have things to teach others >that I deal with. >- -Lon Rombough >Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom > >- ---------- >>From: "Gord Hawkes" >>To: "Greg David" , >, "Daniel Worley" >>Subject: Wow >>Date: Sat, Mar 27, 1999, 8:54 AM >> > >>Marxism, Capitalism, Democracy, government, politics, philosophical navel >>gazing, is this the forum for this type of discussion? Could I suggest >>that maybe those willing to discuss issues that are on the periphery of >>sustainable agriculture do so among themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm >>not trying to stifle your freedom of speech and yes, I too have a delete >>key which allows me to be selective. But, can we steer discussion back to >>the issues of good old sustainable agriculture? I'm ready for the >>onslaught of comments and maybe I'm in the minority here, but thought I'd >>share my view. Maybe, if your discussion deals with subject matter that >>doesn't fall within the realm of sustainable agriculture you identify this >>in Subject line. >> >>Just my $.02 worth. >> >>Gord Hawkes >>Log Cabin Orchard >>Osgoode, Ontario >>Canada >> >>---------- >>> From: Daniel Worley >>> To: Greg David ; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu >>> Subject: Re: A New Perspective of... >>> Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 3:06 AM >>> >>> At 08:47 3/25/99 -0600, Greg David wrote: >>> >>> >For any system to function, it first of all, has to be a democracy. We >>no >>> >longer have that here. We have an oligarchy, or as Jim Hightower likes >>to >>> >say, 'A cleptocracy...Government by Thieves". >>> > >>> >Capitalism, socialism, communism and any other 'ism', will not work >>unless >>> >it is based in democracy! The experiments based on Carl Marx's work were >>not >>> >democratic, and they failed. But that does not mean that a democratic >>form >>> >of socialism could not work. >>> > >>> >And I'm not saying that is what I endorse. I think a democratic >>capitalistic >>> >system, that is held accountable for it's action could be a very >>pausible >>> >for of government. >>> >>> You have some very good points Greg (including much of what I clipped >>> out). I would like to take minor exception with one point though. >>> Democracy when applied to anything larger than a small community, is too >>> unwieldy to work and is only one very small step above anarchy. >>> >>> What we are supposed to have in the US (and no longer do have) is a >>> Republic. I will not attempt to go into the differences here, nor how we >>> got away from the original republic to the current modified democracy >>with >>> the extremely powerful corporations actually running things from behind >>the >>> scenes for the indecent profit for a few elite. But a part of the >>methods >>> used are the same as those being used to attempt to justify the use of >>> prison labor for profit. And a controlled press is a major part of that. >>> >>> >>> --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- >>> dan.worley@mindless.com >>> >>> >>> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". >>> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>> >>> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:35:58 -0600 >From: Martha Wells >Subject: query about old sheetrock > >We have an old house that needs to be torn down. We are going to salvage >the wood from it for reuse, but it was built in 1956, has sheetrock >ceilings and walls. 'Experts' say sheetrock is primarily gypsum and should >break down. We wanted to chip the stuff up and use it to level the >driveways, not around food production. Has anyone any experience dealing >with old sheetrock, and if it can't be applied in this manner, how can it >be gotten rid of? >thanks for any thoughts >martha > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:27:35 -0500 >From: "Gord Hawkes" >Subject: mouse damage > >We have an organic orchard in eastern Ontario, Canada - two main problems >in winter are deer and mice. Deer feed on the new growth and mice will >girdle the bark of the tree at it's base. We have sustained considerable >girdling damage this year and are looking for advice on the best means of >preventing damage in future and how to properly bridge graft the damaged >areas. Any assistance would be truly appreciated. > >thanks, > >Gord Hawkes >Log Cabin Orchard >Osgoode, Ontario >Canada >K0A 2W0 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #928 >****************************** > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 10:00:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10722 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA09589 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:10:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA09579 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11367 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by hudzik.ss-dean.msu.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:00:46 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: logcabinorchard@cyberus.ca, "'Roberto Verzola'" Cc: "'sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: Wow Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:00:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 201 note that the previous post said "more like businesses and ceo's", not "exactly like businesses and ceo's" . . . as many previous threads on this list have emphasized, a type of farming ultimately is not environmentally and socially sustainable if it is not also economically sustainable . . . those previous threads have illustrated the ways in which current economic non-sustainability leads to social disorganization and environmental degradation . . . in that sense, sustainable agriculture needs to pay attention to the economic bottom line of the farm/household enterprise at the same time that it attends to the environmental balances and the social accounting . . . what makes this three-dimensional balancing different for farmers, in contrast to other businesses and ceo's, is the ability to start with multiple values (environmental wellbeing, family integration, net income, occupational amenities), and then develop a farm/household enterprise that is optimal for that set of values cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Roberto Verzola[SMTP:rverzola@phil.gn.apc.org] > Sent: Saturday 27 March 1999 2:10 AM > To: logcabinorchard@cyberus.ca > Subject: Re: Wow > > >sustainable agriculture do so among themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm > >not trying to stifle your freedom of speech and yes, I too have a delete > >key which allows me to be selective. But, can we steer discussion back > to > >the issues of good old sustainable agriculture? I'm ready for the > > An occasional discussion of the social context of agricultural > practices can sometimes help some appreciate the deep roots of the > threats to the viability of ecological agriculture. > > But I will also withdraw from pursuing this thread further. > > On the idea that farmers should think more like businesses and CEOs: > It seems that this is precisely the cause of the major shift towards > ecologically-unsustainable practices. > > I act as informal adviser to an organized farmers' group in the > Philippines. Some plant rice, others vegetables; some maintain fruit > orchards. I'd like to share some of their comments about maintaining > ecologically-sustainable practices: > > - They have very little bargaining power because they are poor. Their > family will go hungry if they don't sell their crop soon after > harvest. > - Their product is perishable (rice will last for many months, but > fruits and vegetables are), which worsens their bargaining power. > > They are currently discussing whether it is better to plant most of > the food crops they consume themselves (rice + vegetables) or heed the > government call to plant cash/export crops. The emerging consensus > seems to be to plant enough food crops (and enough variety) for their > own consumption, so their families won't go hungry if they are unable > to sell their surplus. This improves their bargaining power. At the > core of this idea is subsistence agriculture (producing for one's own > consumption). This leads to the idea of diversifying crops (also to > fishponds, raising chicken, ducks and pigs, etc.) When they have > secured their family's food -- even if accountant's calculations show > they will earn more from cash crops -- only then will they focus on > cash crops. Some of the farmers moved in this direction in the last > planting season. More will probably do it in the next planting season. > > Another idea that emerged is the local processing of perishable goods > into less perishable ones. Again, this is meant to improve their > bargaining position, but is so far only a future prospect. > > They want to avoid chemical agriculture (big debate: some don't use > any pesticide or chemical fertilizers at all, but their neighbors do). > But since all of them have little cash, there is recurring interest in > avoiding chemicals as much as possible. > > The government's position is *very* different. It essentially pushes > -- even forces -- the farmer to plant export crops. Most govt support > programs are for export-oriented crops. These programs come in > technology-packages that include seeds and of course chemicals. > > From my own vantage point, the mindset that leads to > ecologically-sustainable ag practices seems to be risk-minimization. > This is quite different from the business/CEO/corporate mindset, which > is growth/gain-maximization. Risk-minimization leads to > subsistence-oriented ag as the stable base for more diversified ag > operations. Food that a farmer raised for his/her family's consumption > will probably contain less poisons and be healthier than food raised > for the anonymous market. > > Regards to all, > > Roberto Verzola > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 10:22:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10982 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:22:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA22206 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:33:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22189 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:33:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from sprintmail.com (1Cust144.tnt7.chattanooga.tn.da.uu.net [208.255.246.144]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA25296 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 06:33:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36FE3DD7.D46C19B9@sprintmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:33:59 -0500 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Roberto's Post Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 202 Roberto, Excellent analysis! You wrote: "From my own vantage point, the mindset that leads to ecologically-sustainable ag practices seems to be risk-minimization. This is quite different from the business/CEO/corporate mindset, which is growth/gain-maximization. Risk-minimization leads to subsistence-oriented ag as the stable base for more diversified ag operations. Food that a farmer raised for his/her family's consumption will probably contain less poisons and be healthier than food raised for the anonymous market." First of all, it doesn't make sense for a farmer to grow a single commodity, sell it at wholesale and then go to the store to buy food at retail. This would be as foolish as the CEO of General Motors going to a local dealership and buying a Ford at retail. The advice given out by those government agencies and programs you mention are for one purpose only- to feed the agribusiness pipeline of food into the US, Japan and other countries who are failing at producing their own food. In the US, we've destroyed or paved over some of our most productive soils and we're losing farmers all the time. We are also moving our farming offshore, along with our manufacturing. Also, the "farm development packages" offered by your government are provided by the chemical/seed companies in the US. These are designed to make farmers dependent on the US companies' products in order to increase their sales, irregardless of what these do to your soil, your farmers and your culture. It's much the same deal as Nestle's program of giving free samples of baby formula to new mothers in the hospitals of emerging countries, making them dependent on it after their milk dries up. (Incidentally, they give away just enough formula to last until a new mother's milk is dried up, making them dependent on formula to feed the baby.) This program is the cause of deaths of thousands of babies through out the world. So, when they tell a farmer that this is for their own good, they really mean it's for the good of the company supplying the products. You're also correct in your analysis of CEO thinking versus farm as food production thinking. Farms are not factories. We're not making autos, we're attempting to manage a biological system. These days, CEOs must think only in short term gains and how to construct a "golden parachute" if things go badly. All of this thinking is based on money- an artificial construct. True farming is longer range in thinking- how does what I do today affect my ability to grow next season? And my children and grandchildren"s ability? I propose thinking of maketing in 4 levels and in this order: 1. Food production for the farm family. 2. Retail sales in the local area. 3. Value added products to preserve perishable items. 4. Wholesale of excess which isn't consumed on farm, sold at retail prices or processed. And farmers diversifying can only lead to better ecological and financial health of the farm. So, hang in there Roberto. No matter what anyone says or how much they may ridicule your ideas, thinking the way you do will lead you to farm and farmer health. The paltry sum that government and agribusiness suppliers offer you for your health and the health of your farm isn't a very good deal. Vaya con Dios, mi amigo, Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 10:50:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11187 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:50:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12184 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:04:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from newmail.netbistro.com (newmail.netbistro.com [204.239.167.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12180 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:04:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7626 invoked by alias); 28 Mar 1999 15:04:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 7613 invoked from network); 28 Mar 1999 15:04:04 -0000 Received: from ip195.netaddr.abccom.bc.ca (HELO paddy) (207.194.220.195) by newmail.netbistro.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 1999 15:04:04 -0000 Message-ID: <009201be792c$554bb760$aedcc2cf@paddy> From: "Paddy" To: Subject: RE: Mouse Damage Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:04:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01BE78E9.2DA73B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 203 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BE78E9.2DA73B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply to Gord Hawkes Your need a copy of "Organic Tree Fruit Management", by Linda Edwards = and published by the Certified Organic Associations of B.C. Available = from COABC Box 577, Keremeos, B.C. V0H 1T0 email for info to = hbuchler@vip.net Sales in the US distributed through the "Good Fruit = Grower" magazine. Paddy Doherty, President, COABC ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BE78E9.2DA73B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Reply to Gord Hawkes
 
Your need a copy of "Organic = Tree Fruit=20 Management", by Linda Edwards and published by the Certified = Organic=20 Associations of B.C.  Available from COABC   Box 577, = Keremeos,=20 B.C. V0H 1T0  email for info to hbuchler@vip.net   Sales = in the US=20 distributed through the "Good Fruit Grower" = magazine.
 
Paddy Doherty,  President,=20 COABC
------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BE78E9.2DA73B00-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 10:52:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11196 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:52:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13998 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:08:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13907 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:08:24 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7FNOa00460 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:07:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5a631bca.36fe45af@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 10:07:27 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: " Let them drink ethanol?" Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 206 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 204 To begin with, I have to say how much I admire the listmembers and the list for its content and their verve. I retrieve much substance and don't mind that topics seem to stray-because we'll get back to root-knot nematodes any day now. Sometimes it is impossible to evade the political referrence, hence my subject title, a paraphrase of a statement variously and dubiously attributed to Marie Antionette. BANR-O-99-02-A I am writing to ask of the regulatory/academic community represented on SANET that they take a deeper look at the work the National Research Council agricultural panel is doing on genetic engineering. I hope you can comment back to them by 8 April 99. I have a feeling that the elite folks on the panel may look a bit more carefully at papers and responses that may come from a dot-gov or dot-edu realm than my cranky compost-covered viewpoint. My bias has been showing for a long time. Scientifically speaking, if the NRC spectacle were equivalent to scientific testing, and I was going to run a lab analysis, I would determine that I would have to throw out Monsanto's comments and the organic farmer comments because they skew the results. Nez pas? Here on SANET we have been dosed with a steady stream of contrarian information that may lead one at least to assume that biotechnology applications in agriculture have been commercially introduced without proper review. How any crop entomologist concluded that Bt resistance would not result from having it at large for 100 days fence row to fence row in cotton and corn is amazing to me when one considers that acquired pest resistance is so universally proven and now assumed. But, hey, I just have an art degree. There are economic and social considerations that might be just as apt for the National Research Council to review because those aspects motivated government to approve and promote the technology as much as proposed pest and weed control innovations did. How can the spectre of famine guide us now when we still plant millions of acres of corn to produce ethanol and vast acreage is dedicated to sugar cane production in the tropics? Sugar is just another momentary commestible luxury that would not be grown if officials really wanted to feed people, when and if the market for staple foods indicated better returns from sweet potatoes and corn. Now that petroleum is going to be more expensive, does that mean that a seller's market is coming for corn? More later on all of that. Steve Sprinkel Austin To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 12:40:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12617 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:40:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA10130 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:33:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10038 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:33:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA13205 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [139.142.112.114] [139.142.112.114] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m10RILl-000WTMC for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:23:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:23:29 -0800 Subject: Alex's post/a teeny nit From: "Beth Lischeron" To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com CC: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 205 Dear Alex - I'm sorry I didn't catch Roberto's post (which sounded good!) but I really got all reved up with yours - cheer cheer! One teeny weeny nit to pick (which actually furthers your arguement re: 'benefiting the companies') just for historical veracity - Japan was completely self sufficient for most of its existance; in fact both emigration and immigration were proscribed under pain for death for centuries. Japan is not now 'incapable' of feeding itself so much as being literally forced into accepting foreign (mainly US) food due to the so-called 'level playing field' of the post-WTO world. True, it has also exported a lot of its agricultural (as manufacturing) production due to high yen, high cost of land, aging population and the inability to entice young people into ag due to many many factors (I have a dear friend there who is trying to do the Fukuoka style 'natural farming' with incredible resistance from the local farming community - and he's Japanese! I could write a whole thing on it, let me know,' anyone', if you're interested!) etc., but much of that has been relatively recent. As has population growth... OOPS, 'Mummy come & wash me"... Back I go to Mummy Land... Anyway, that was my teeny comment, thanks and have a happy day, all! Beth ---------- >From: Alex McGregor >To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" >Subject: Re: Roberto's Post >Date: Sun Mar, 1999, 6:33 > >Roberto, > >Excellent analysis! You wrote: > >"From my own vantage point, the mindset that leads to >ecologically-sustainable ag practices seems to be risk-minimization. >This is quite different from the business/CEO/corporate mindset, which >is growth/gain-maximization. Risk-minimization leads to >subsistence-oriented ag as the stable base for more diversified ag >operations. Food that a farmer raised for his/her family's consumption >will probably contain less poisons and be healthier than food raised for >the anonymous market." > >First of all, it doesn't make sense for a farmer to grow a single >commodity, sell it at wholesale and then go to the store to buy food at >retail. This would be as foolish as the CEO of General Motors going to a >local dealership and buying a Ford at retail. > >The advice given out by those government agencies and programs you >mention are for one purpose only- to feed the agribusiness pipeline of >food into the US, Japan and other countries who are failing at producing >their own food. In the US, we've destroyed or paved over some of our >most productive soils and we're losing farmers all the time. We are also >moving our farming offshore, along with our manufacturing. > >Also, the "farm development packages" offered by your government are >provided by the chemical/seed companies in the US. These are designed to >make farmers dependent on the US companies' products in order to >increase their sales, irregardless of what these do to your soil, your >farmers and your culture. > >It's much the same deal as Nestle's program of giving free samples of >baby formula to new mothers in the hospitals of emerging countries, >making them dependent on it after their milk dries up. (Incidentally, >they give away just enough formula to last until a new mother's milk is >dried up, making them dependent on formula to feed the baby.) This >program is the cause of deaths of thousands of babies through out the >world. > >So, when they tell a farmer that this is for their own good, they really >mean it's for the good of the company supplying the products. > >You're also correct in your analysis of CEO thinking versus farm as food >production thinking. Farms are not factories. We're not making autos, >we're attempting to manage a biological system. These days, CEOs must >think only in short term gains and how to construct a "golden parachute" >if things go badly. All of this thinking is based on money- an >artificial construct. True farming is longer range in thinking- how does >what I do today affect my ability to grow next season? And my children >and grandchildren"s ability? > >I propose thinking of maketing in 4 levels and in this order: >1. Food production for the farm family. >2. Retail sales in the local area. >3. Value added products to preserve perishable items. >4. Wholesale of excess which isn't consumed on farm, sold at retail >prices or processed. > >And farmers diversifying can only lead to better ecological and >financial health of the farm. > >So, hang in there Roberto. No matter what anyone says or how much they >may ridicule your ideas, thinking the way you do will lead you to farm >and farmer health. The paltry sum that government and agribusiness >suppliers offer you for your health and the health of your farm isn't a >very good deal. > >Vaya con Dios, mi amigo, >Alex > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 13:15:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13618 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:15:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA03407 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:14:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03355 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:14:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP249.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.11]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16422 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 09:13:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36FE637D.BC1AE53C@sprintmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:14:37 -0500 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: [Fwd: Wow] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------661F389C07C20ACC77A1C4D5" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 206 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------661F389C07C20ACC77A1C4D5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beth, Here's Roberto's post. The part I mentioned in my post about Japan failing at their ability to produce their own food comes from talking with Japanese agronomists and business people from Japan. They say that they have increased their chemical use on some farms to the point that the production is dropping off. They come here to see what we're doing in alternative areas to produce more without destroying the soil. They are particularly interested in intensive organic systems and large scale organic grow houses. Japan is also losing it's farming traditions- how they did it years ago- witness the criticism of your friend who is trying to emulate Fukuoka. One Japanese academic from Hosei University came to our farm to see what we're doing- locally marketing, diversified production- to take back to his home town where the farmers are being shut out of the larger markets in Japan by food industries and political decisions. By the way, I said in my post that the US and Japan were "failing at producing their own food" rather than "incapable of feeding itself." Two quite different things- I used "failing" as an incomplete and ongoing process rather than "incapable" which is a present condition. And you're right, Japan did an excellent job, out of necessity and choice, of feeding itself for centuries. It seems we have all given up our culture and traditions to jump on the wagon of Western imperialism and "prosperity." Your use of "mummy"- are you in England? (Istarted to say "British Isles and then realized that it's really the islands of the Anglos, Scotts and Eires.) Alex --------------661F389C07C20ACC77A1C4D5 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="nsmailCQ.TMP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nsmailCQ.TMP" Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28603 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA27560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:06:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from rufino2.gw.iphil.net (IDENT:mail@rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA27551 for ; Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:06:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id IAA10727; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:04:35 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id HAA01373; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 07:40:46 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199903272340.HAA01373@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 27 Mar 99 07:10:30 Subject: Re: Wow To: logcabinorchard@cyberus.ca Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk >sustainable agriculture do so among themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm >not trying to stifle your freedom of speech and yes, I too have a delete >key which allows me to be selective. But, can we steer discussion back to >the issues of good old sustainable agriculture? I'm ready for the An occasional discussion of the social context of agricultural practices can sometimes help some appreciate the deep roots of the threats to the viability of ecological agriculture. But I will also withdraw from pursuing this thread further. On the idea that farmers should think more like businesses and CEOs: It seems that this is precisely the cause of the major shift towards ecologically-unsustainable practices. I act as informal adviser to an organized farmers' group in the Philippines. Some plant rice, others vegetables; some maintain fruit orchards. I'd like to share some of their comments about maintaining ecologically-sustainable practices: - They have very little bargaining power because they are poor. Their family will go hungry if they don't sell their crop soon after harvest. - Their product is perishable (rice will last for many months, but fruits and vegetables are), which worsens their bargaining power. They are currently discussing whether it is better to plant most of the food crops they consume themselves (rice + vegetables) or heed the government call to plant cash/export crops. The emerging consensus seems to be to plant enough food crops (and enough variety) for their own consumption, so their families won't go hungry if they are unable to sell their surplus. This improves their bargaining power. At the core of this idea is subsistence agriculture (producing for one's own consumption). This leads to the idea of diversifying crops (also to fishponds, raising chicken, ducks and pigs, etc.) When they have secured their family's food -- even if accountant's calculations show they will earn more from cash crops -- only then will they focus on cash crops. Some of the farmers moved in this direction in the last planting season. More will probably do it in the next planting season. Another idea that emerged is the local processing of perishable goods into less perishable ones. Again, this is meant to improve their bargaining position, but is so far only a future prospect. They want to avoid chemical agriculture (big debate: some don't use any pesticide or chemical fertilizers at all, but their neighbors do). But since all of them have little cash, there is recurring interest in avoiding chemicals as much as possible. The government's position is *very* different. It essentially pushes -- even forces -- the farmer to plant export crops. Most govt support programs are for export-oriented crops. These programs come in technology-packages that include seeds and of course chemicals. >From my own vantage point, the mindset that leads to ecologically-sustainable ag practices seems to be risk-minimization. This is quite different from the business/CEO/corporate mindset, which is growth/gain-maximization. Risk-minimization leads to subsistence-oriented ag as the stable base for more diversified ag operations. Food that a farmer raised for his/her family's consumption will probably contain less poisons and be healthier than food raised for the anonymous market. Regards to all, Roberto Verzola To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------661F389C07C20ACC77A1C4D5-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 16:10:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA15228 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:10:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA22922 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:03:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA22816 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:03:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [199.175.106.61] [199.175.106.61] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m10RLm4-000WSkC for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:03:12 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 12:03:16 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: tree bark damage Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 207 Gord Hawkes, We have had the same bark damage in the orchard (I thought it was due to rabbits, but I talked recently to the owner of a christmas tree farm who is having the mice problem). We solved it by cutting 18-24 inch pieces of Big O pipe, split the pipe lengthwise and work it over the tree trunk at the ground. We found it is better to remove the Big O pipe during the summer because the bark under the pipe didn't seem to develop the same as the rest of the tree (perhaps it makes no difference) Those of you who decry "political" discussions on this list somehow miss the point that "sustainable agriculture" can be an integral part of a culture's political expression. The revolution aimed at "consumerism" during the 1960's did misfire but more people than ever know that "capitalist, free-enterprise, democracy" is PR flack. I have no intention of adding to the political discussion, I'm too busy in the greenhouse seeding this year's early crops (can't get started in the soil yet because of an unusually wet, cool spring), but I applaud those who wish and need to learn about alternate systems which, just possibly, can save our egocentric asses from the biotech evolution planned by the capitalist, free-enterprise, democratic global corporations. Good luck with the orchard (sad to say, we are just eating the last fresh apples from the 1998 season) Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 16:15:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA15275 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:15:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA26085 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:12:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26071 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:12:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA17658 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:12:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.43); 28 Mar 99 15:10:57 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.43); 28 Mar 99 15:10:36 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 15:10:35 EST Subject: Re: objectivity and university X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <1E89427684@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 208 Folks: I would appreciate your thoughts on the definition of "objectivity", as in "objective science-based research" or "s/he is an objective researcher". Define, rather than describe it - if you can. Secondly, I'd be very interested in hearing your perceptions of the unique and specific role(s) that publicly funded universities (including but not limited to land grant) should be (not are) playing in modern society. Please post to the list, so everyone can benefit from your thoughts. The context of my question is agriculture, and genetic engineering in particular, so I will hope that I do not stray too far from the central axis of sustag. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 17:14:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17894 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:14:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA06538 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:15:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06516 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ihug.co.nz (p51-max22.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.98.115]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29857; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:15:16 +1200 Message-ID: <36FE9B90.371B7971@ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:13:52 +1200 From: I & K Buckingham Reply-To: siesta@ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gord Hawkes , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: mouse damage References: <199903271927.OAA24870@cyberus.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 209 Gord Hawkes wrote: > > We have an organic orchard in eastern Ontario, Canada - two main problems > in winter are deer and mice. Deer feed on the new growth and mice will > girdle the bark of the tree at it's base. Gord A spray we use quite successfully on newly planted trees to deter rabbits and hares may help with the mice. 5 eggs 100 ml acrylic paint ( sticking material ) 600 ml water Break eggs and keep egg yolk/white Beat and then add paint and water. Mix Preferably strain through stocking or sieve to remove the larger lumps of white for spraying convenience. Using a small pump up atomizer sprayer spray on affected parts of the trees. For rabbit protection it usually lasts for 6 months. Regards Ian Buckingham Maungatawhiri New Zealand To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 18:59:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA18960 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:59:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA17705 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:07:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA17653 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 18:07:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from p2 (ppp06-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.6]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA27667 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:07:44 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: of mice and mumbles, traps, fences and snakes Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:17:18 +1000 Message-ID: <000001be7971$200f6de0$063325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199903280346.VAA28186@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 210 I think you have to have discussion. Sustainable agriculture is just an aspect of sustainable human occupation of the planet, a large subject, and both depend on two major things, observation and thought. The best thought requires conversation, and I have found that the best ideas often come from the promptings of virtual irrelevancies on the mind, not from tight discipline at a town meeting. And it does not help for another person to slag those who express ideas as never having done anything practical. Otherwise others in turn will get into the same rut and damn practical people for being poor thinkers. I have some thoughts on the mice; pardon if I mention things you know well, I'm trying to be thorough. I do not have problems with deer, but I do have some problems with mice and with a deer equivalent, wallabies - not to mention the fruit competition from parrots and bower birds. And I used to have a major problem with neighbour's cows. And briefly in the eighties I was stupid enough to have goats and fruit trees on one property. What I do not have is a problem of spring emergence from a snowbound winter. I take it that the problem is on the annual regular scale, rather than the sort of mad breeding in odd weather/crop circumstances that saw millions and millions of mice marauding south eastern Australia in the early nineties, driving cows and people insane, and to which governments responded with air-dropped poisoned wheat, which may or may not have been the reason why the plague fell away. It is also not clear whether you are trying to do something new in your region, in terms of the orcharding or particular fruit tree types. Here we might try traps with food lures for mice, from which the mice fall where they cannot escape. It may be still too cold in Ontario to have them fall into water, on which I imagine even mice might walk at this time of year at night up your way, but a barrel with slippery inescapable sides might be otherwise contrived below a food lure on a pirates' plank. Is this a brief annual mouse problem of predator numbers rising a bit too slowly in spring, or is there a serious lack of predators? Longer term, do you need to provide more accommodation for raptores, etc? Are there local ornithologists to advise you? What allows the mice to breed up before other feed is sufficient? My mouse problem is modest/non-existent in the orchard, control of which I share with the pretty and shy red bellied black snake and the occasional glamorous python (but I do try to remove death adders (which wait for you as quietly as a cow pat) and tiger snakes (which can jump at you from 10ft)). Kookaburras (large kingfisher) are wonderful, and have been known to ride bulldozer blades going to the hunt. Shed problems (electric insulation attracts the protected marsupial mice too) require good building closure, building away from forest, trapping. Poisoned rodents must not be able to escape to where they can be eaten, as I am sure you appreciate. Do you have snakes in your area that deal with mice? Are mice breeding up on stored or spilled grain, heading out across country in early spring? Keep a python in the shed? Blame neighbouring grain farms, open barns? The deer-taking-new-growth is much like the wallaby (small kangaroo) problem we have, but it is interesting that both birds and wallabies are selective about what they take, and favour, notably, plum over peach or nectarine, pear ahead of apple. My approach is to allow to some extent, the survivors to select themselves: e.g. early on, apricots made their own decision to turn up their heals in the local micro-climate. Some apples do much better than others, similarly. I don't try hard to protect the plums from having their shoots taken; they have to hack it or go. The pears have gotten above the wallaby reach, for the most part. Do the deer discriminate, or is their damage wholesale? Where that kind of problem exists here (cattle, goats on the loose), the answer is either adequate fencing (and I have found fat white [for horses] electric tape useful - yellow may do better with snow on the ground*) culling or removal of the pest. That I can't do with the wallabies, nor are they easy to fence out. I have established some good pasture for them away from the orchard, in an open reserve giving them access also to the creek. Also a dog helps, but you need to be there at the right time with the right dog. Piddle (human, dog) on the trees may or may deter deer, but it's cheap to try, and may help the trees, if not put on the young leaves themselves. Put a little in a milk bottle each night; maybe you could make a sub-snow piddle cache over winter - think of that bottle collection growing! To get really depressed about deer in spring (among other things) read John Updike's 'Towards the End of Time'. Dennis Argall Mount Eurobodalla Bodalla NSW Australia *FENCING:: I have had a flood problem which has made it unwise to have heavy fence around the orchard. If deer are bad, a strong piece of galvanised wire, snagging logs going through the orchard, is worse. I use fibreglass posts, with multiple strands of tape attached to one post, and attached with a breakaway tie at the next post. This system may work if you are needing to put out fence quickly and have to adjust to snow levels, new plantings, etc. It won't stop a charging animal, but what will. The 'breakaway' connection is made by having a curtain ring - the cheap kind like a simple key-ring - attached to the post and tape, so that the loose end from the next post is looped to go through the double part of the curtain ring, being held with a small piece of stick. You can get a reasonable strain by using trees at corners to brace such a system. You have to wire the thing so that the bit that falls to the ground is not live. (Maybe a device detecting a fence break, or sudden earthing, could let out a bark or some other deterrent sound.) Where neighbours with fancy fences have lost the lot in big floods, I have put mine back together, 400 metres all broken through, in an hour or so. Same system might be helpful in snow areas. With a fence like that you can run it through the orchard too, not just around it, to make life difficult for intruders. It must be very visible and identifiable and you need to check it daily. If your orchard is small, you could use a product sold here but imported, I think, from the USA, called Electranet, which is 50 metres long and 1.8 metres high multiple strand electric fence, easily moved, with tread-in posts, which is primarily used here to keep chickens safe from foxes and dingoes, and does that well. Can you run poultry in the orchard, or is it still too cold for that? They might reduce the cover for mice and get some of them, if allowed to forage in the litter during the day. They might also attract raptores. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 22:49:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21428 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:49:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA12887 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:57:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ssc.wisc.edu (duncan.ssc.wisc.edu [144.92.190.57]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA12846 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:57:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from elaine.ssc.wisc.edu (elaine.ssc.wisc.edu [144.92.190.33]) by ssc.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA05783 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:57:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (jgoldber@localhost) by elaine.ssc.wisc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13980 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:57:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 20:57:26 -0600 (CST) From: Jessica Goldberger To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Kenya Sustainable Agriculture Field Program Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 211 ****************************************************** * PLEASE POST OR PASS ON TO INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS * ****************************************************** KENYA SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE FIELD PROGRAM Inaugural Program of the David Brower Global CPR (Conservation, Preservation, and Restoration) Corps A Global Service Corps Short-Term or Long-Term Opportunity Beginning July 5, 1999 This summer Global Service Corps (GSC), a project of Earth Island Institute, is initiating a Sustainable Agriculture Field Program in Eastern Kenya. This Program inaugurates the Global CPR (Conservation, Preservation, and Restoration) Corps, which was initially conceived by David R. Brower, preeminent international environmentalist. Mr. Brower, who was recently awarded the Blue Planet Prize for his environmental accomplishments, is currently the Chairman of Earth Island Institute. He also was the first Executive Director of the Sierra Club, founder of Friends of the Earth and Earth Island Institute, and three-time nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize. Global Service Corps first began offering Kenya village-based programs in 1994 by teaching biointensive agriculture (BIA) to community members in the Mumias area of Kenya's Western Province. BIA is a specialized form of organic agriculture involving the use of double-dug beds, locally-available crops, organic compost materials, crop diversification, intensive planting, and water harvesting. The 1994 Kenya program included the development of a BIA training workshop attended by both GSC participants and local community members. These newly trained GSC participants and Kenyans then worked together to provide two-day seminars for other community members in the surrounding area. Over the course of three years, this program assisted in the initiation of over 2,000 community garden plots as well as a community BIA demonstration plot and training center. GSC is now planning to replicate this highly successful program in the Kibwezi area (in Kenya's Eastern Province) and is looking for participants with an interest in small-scale sustainable agriculture to assist with the development of this program. What preparation/background do participants need? Participants in the Kenya Sustainable Agriculture Field Program should be interested in small-scale sustainable agriculture and local community development, and be both eager and excited to learn and spread the word about the benefits of biointensive agriculture. Previous training or experience with gardening is not required, but would be useful. Participants should also be prepared to immerse themselves in the Kenyan culture, as a significant purpose of GSC is to provide participants with an unforgettable cross-cultural and learning experience. College juniors and seniors (who are at least 20 years old), recent graduates, graduate students, and interested adults are all encouraged to join us for the Kenya Sustainable Agriculture Field Program. What is the duration and itinerary for the project? Students and others interested in the Sustainable Agriculture Field Program may participate in either a short-term (four weeks) or long-term (at least 10 weeks) program option. All participants must take part in the short-term program (July 5 - July 31, 1999), after which long-term participants remain in Kenya for a minimum of two months. The program begins with a two-day cultural and program orientation and a tour of Nairobi. GSC participants then travel to Kibwezi and attend a three-day biointensive agriculture training workshop. During the training, participants learn alongside local villagers the theories and practices associated with biointensive gardening, such as double digging, composting, nursery bed preparation, water harvesting, and intensive planting. Other topics discussed will include agricultural trends in Kenya, local community development, zero-grazing dairy enterprises, and adapting biointensive farming for arid areas. Participants will learn how to develop strategies for communicating this knowledge to a variety of audiences. After the training, volunteers will be placed in homestays in and around Kibwezi for three weeks. Not only will participants work with Kenyan counterparts to develop and deliver biointensive gardening demonstrations, they will also experience day-to-day Kenyan village and family life. Participants will also have the opportunity to visit local sustainable agriculture and development projects, as well as numerous self-help and women's groups in the Kibwezi area. The short-term program will conclude with either a final celebration in Nairobi or a trip to one of Kenya's many celebrated game reserves. Long-term participants will return to their homestays in Kibwezi or nearby villages and continue to work more independently on their sustainable agriculture projects. Can students receive academic credit for this program? GSC's programs are intensive and credit-worthy. Students are encouraged to arrange for credit with their home institutions. GSC is in the process of identifying academic partners who may offer transfer credit to students from other universities. Please phone GSC for current information. Who will be coordinating the program? Jessica Goldberger, a doctoral student in rural sociology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, will coordinate the short-term Kenya Sustainable Agriculture Field Program. Jessica participated in the very first GSC biointensive gardening project, which took place in western Kenya in 1994. She also has experience with international agroforestry and small-scale agriculture projects, which she gained while a Program Coordinator for the New Forests Project (a non-profit organization located in Washington, DC). Currently, Jessica is working on her Ph.D. dissertation research on biointensive agriculture in rural Kenya. After the completion of the short-term program, long-term participants will be supervised by GSC in-country staff. Overall coordination of the GSC Kenya programs will be provided by Kay Marten (M.A., Anthropology). Kay spent four years as Director of the Friends World Program's undergraduate program in Kenya, and has lived in Kenya with her husband since 1989. To receive information about program fees, future sessions (October 1999 and beyond), and additional details, or about other GSC programs in Kenya, Costa Rica, and Thailand, please contact: GLOBAL SERVICE CORPS 300 Broadway, Suite 28 San Francisco, CA 94133 Phone: 415-788-3666 ext. 128 Fax: 415-788-7324 Email: gsc@igc.apc.org http://www.globalservicecorps.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 22:51:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21440 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA22688 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:13:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA22634 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:12:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp169.epix.net [205.238.243.169]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA28464 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:12:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FEF030.556B6353@epix.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:14:56 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: soil discoveries Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 212 Sanet, We are putting in 3,400 ft of underground irrigation lines and it has been fascinating to see what the soil profile looks like across several different fields. Joel Gruver (U of MD) and his assistant were here yesterday collecting a 3 ft profile of soil from the sidewall if the trench. They pointed out earthworm channels that extended below the bottom of the trench and showed me the roots that followed the channels. All my fields are cover cropped and I was amazed at the living roots of the 5" tall rye that were noticed 3 ft below the soil surface! It reinforced to me the importance of keeping the soil covered and to always have something growing in a field. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 23:18:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA22108 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:18:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA00963 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:24:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00954 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:24:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21183; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:31:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA08358; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:24:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:24:43 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: sm8f@server2.mail.virginia.edu Subject: living machine question (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 213 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net Can anyone help with this? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 21:14:16 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Shali Mohleji To: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: living machine question I am a third year environmental sciences major at the University of Virginia taking an Environmental Choices course with Professor William McDonough. I found this email address off the "Intergarden" webpage. I am currently working on a project where we are trying to redesign college dining halls. We are trying to create living machines where we would install the right type of plants and microorganisms to treat and filter greywater coming out of dining halls. Once this water is treated, it would go back into the dining halls and be reused. The goal is to create a closed and self-sufficient system that would be more efficient, cost-effective, and use less environmental resources. I am writing to ask if you have any idea what quality the greywater would be coming out of dining halls. I am guessing there would be solid particles of food, grease, and soap in the water, but do you have any ideas what else the water might be composed of? In addition, do you know what quality the product water would be once filtered by the plants? I have read that it is not suitable for drinking, but I haven't been able to find just what quality it would be. Once we know what is in the water, then we can research the appropriate plants and organisms that use those substances. In addition, would you know what state regulations are for what can be disposed of in water? This might be a clue as to what is dissolved in the greywater coming out. I apologize for such a long email, but I was hoping you might be able to help me answer these questions, or even point me in the right direction of where to find this out. Thank you for all of your time. Best Wishes, Shali Mohleji To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Mar 28 23:28:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA22388 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 23:28:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA11239 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:41:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA11169 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp169.epix.net [205.238.243.169]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA02336 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:41:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FEF6CF.BB23A0F3@epix.net> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:43:11 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: Sus Ag in Sucessful Farming also Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 214 Sanet, Thanks Greg Gunthorp for mentioning the Sus Ag articles in John Deere's FURROW Magazine. Got to give compliments to the mainstream media/info when you can. Successful Farming has also been doing good Sus Ag topics lately. The Feb. Issue profiled the Allen Matthew's Farm, A Pennsylvania Assn. of Sustainable Ag member, who I happen to know personally. The issue just released has a nice article about an organic grower from Wisconsin. It'd be commendable to drop these folks a note of appreciation if you can. Here's a chance to compliment rather than complain! Do it! Successful Farming editor is Loren Kruse, lkruse@mdp.com John Deere "feedback" off of their website is: http://apps1.deere.com/feedback/agfeedbk.htm Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 02:34:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA24549 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 02:34:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA23071 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 01:26:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA23045 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 01:26:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from rufino2.gw.iphil.net (IDENT:mail@rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA24511 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 01:26:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id OAA03717; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:24:02 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id OAA05481; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:06:12 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199903290606.OAA05481@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 28 Mar 99 13:48:54 Subject: RE: economic sustainability To: Craig.Harris@ssc.msu.edu to: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 215 >Craig Harris: >list have emphasized, a type of farming ultimately is not environmentally >and socially sustainable if it is not also economically sustainable . . . >those previous threads have illustrated the ways in which current economic >non-sustainability leads to social disorganization and environmental >degradation . . . in that sense, sustainable agriculture needs to pay >attention to the economic bottom line of the farm/household enterprise at Unfortunately, judgments about economic sustainability depend a lot on the prevailing economic system (which is why discussions on this issue keep leading to comparisons of economic systems). To compute economic sustainability, we need to assign values to various inputs and outputs. Under a market-oriented (rather than subsistence-oriented) approach, only the marketable (ie, encashable) outputs of a total ecological system are valued. An organic farm is so much more diverse and therefore productive, ecologically speaking, than a single-crop chemicalized farm. However, the latter might produce more of that single crop than the former and thus appear more "economically productive". Furthermore, under conditions of competition (instead of cooperation), a farm ran "more like a business" would be tend to externalize more and more of its costs to remain competitive. The costs would still be there, they would just not be paid for by those who created them. They would instead be passed on to other social sectors with little voice in decision-making, to the environment, or to future generations. Because they are so economically and politically powerful, the big corporations can externalize their costs more easily and thus appear "more economically viable." By their very mindsets, organic farmers consciously avoid externalizing costs; also precisely by their very mindsets, businessmen and CEOs would externalize their costs whenever possible to improve their competitiveness. Under a context of a competitive market system therefore, the stacks are heavily loaded against the organic/ecological farmer, who will tend to appear more economically inefficient and unsustainable than the chemical/industrial farmer. Roberto Verzola To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 08:07:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA27512 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:07:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA23081 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:07:55 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.iitb.ac.in (mailhost.iitb.ac.in [202.54.44.115]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA22974 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:07:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 22302 invoked from network); 29 Mar 1999 12:17:11 -0000 Received: from manashi.hss.iitb.ernet.in (144.16.104.2) by mailhost.iitb.ac.in with SMTP; 29 Mar 1999 12:17:11 -0000 Received: from localhost (dp@localhost) by manashi.hss.iitb.ernet.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA19133 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:30:05 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:30:05 +0530 (IST) From: "d.parthasarathy" Reply-To: "d.parthasarathy" To: sanet-mg Subject: Re: of mice and mumbles, traps, fences and snakes In-Reply-To: <000001be7971$200f6de0$063325cb@p2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 216 I was hesitating to post this piece about a story that is told by the Warli people in western India. I heard this in a film that I saw recently about the Warlis. After the recent diatribe against thinkers as opposed to doers, I didn't want to post a story that does not offer a practical solution to the mice problem, but I was encouraged by Argall Family's post. SO here goes. In the story, mice once owned all land on earth. Through deciet, human beings, especially money-lenders took away all the land. The land was originally also given to human beings during a period of distress when there was food scarcity, and the mice generously gave them land on the condition that 50% of the produce would be given to the mice. But humans soon forgot about this pledge and drove away all the mice. The current mice 'problem', is thus interpreted as mice coming to take back what belonged to them originally. I think in dealing with these kinds of problems we need to essentially find out what kind of changes have occurred in the micro-ecological niche that have forced mice or any other species to feed off human beings. Once we do that we ca think of probable solutions - such as alternative pastures for deer as Argall suggested. Last week I was touring farms in the south-western drylands in India, and one farmer had peacocks and peahens eating up all his groundnut crop when it was almost ready for harvest. A major reason for this problem was the denudation by commercial interests of the nearby Sahyadri range of mountains. The farmer decided to allow the fowl to eat up all the groundnuts since they had no other means of sustenance. Of course not all of us can afford to do this but this farmer not only had other resources to fall back on but was known locally for giving up a flourishing medical practice for agriculture, and so anything he did was crazy! We cannot all do what he did, but it does to point to the roots of the problem. Regards D.Parthasarathy Department of Humanities and Social Sciences Indian Institute of Technology, Powai Mumbai, 400076, India Phone: 091 022 576 7372 email: dp@hss.iitb.ernet.in To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 08:26:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA27741 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:26:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA10393 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:32:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10302 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA02165 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA28698; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:31:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-155.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.155) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028683; Mon Mar 29 06:31:19 1999 Message-ID: <00e001be79df$cdf97c20$0df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Roberto Verzola" , , Subject: Re: economic sustainability Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:29:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 217 >Yikes, I suppose all this is true but our goal is enough money to quit the day jobs, be able to afford health insurance, support the household, support the farm seeds critters etc, be able to PRESERVE our land, than be able to put a little profit away for a rainy day or retirement. Beth >Under a market-oriented (rather than subsistence-oriented) approach, >only the marketable (ie, encashable) outputs of a total ecological >system are valued. An organic farm is so much more diverse and >therefore productive, ecologically speaking, than a single-crop >chemicalized farm. However, the latter might produce more of that >single crop than the former and thus appear more "economically >productive". > >Furthermore, under conditions of competition (instead of cooperation), >a farm ran "more like a business" would be tend to externalize more >and more of its costs to remain competitive. The costs would still be >there, they would just not be paid for by those who created them. They >would instead be passed on to other social sectors with little voice >in decision-making, to the environment, or to future generations. >Because they are so economically and politically powerful, the big >corporations can externalize their costs more easily and thus appear >"more economically viable." > >By their very mindsets, organic farmers consciously avoid >externalizing costs; also precisely by their very mindsets, >businessmen and CEOs would externalize their costs whenever possible >to improve their competitiveness. > >Under a context of a competitive market system therefore, the stacks >are heavily loaded against the organic/ecological farmer, who will >tend to appear more economically inefficient and unsustainable than >the chemical/industrial farmer. > >Roberto Verzola > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 10:07:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29572 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20532 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:02:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20506 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04927 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:02:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from greg (tnt-9-29.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.125]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA05101; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:37:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199903291437.JAA05101@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Dan Hook" , "Roberto Verzola" , , Subject: Re: economic sustainability Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:25:50 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 218 I don't know who I am arguing with here, but if Sustainable/organic farming cannot find a way to compete economically in the current system then the whole effort is futile. I'm not saying it can't justify premiums long term. But it has to support families with a decent standard of living and quality of life or no one is going to do it long term. Or should I say, at least enough are not going to do it to have an impact on the ecosystem. We have to develop sustainable agriculture systems that support families. Most of us can not put our philosophical differences ahead of supporting our families. And it is obvious that we have to support families and make a profit if we want the rest of agriculture to take us serious. Is sustainable and organic agriculture doing its job of creating better economic opportunities? (I've got an answer for that but I'll wait till others answer first.) Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com ---------- > From: Dan Hook > To: Roberto Verzola ; Craig.Harris@ssc.msu.edu; sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: economic sustainability > Date: Monday, March 29, 1999 7:29 AM > > > >Yikes, I suppose all this is true but our goal is enough money to quit the > day jobs, be able to afford health insurance, support the household, support > the farm seeds critters etc, be able to PRESERVE our land, than be able to > put a little profit away for a rainy day or retirement. Beth > > >Under a market-oriented (rather than subsistence-oriented) approach, > >only the marketable (ie, encashable) outputs of a total ecological > >system are valued. An organic farm is so much more diverse and > >therefore productive, ecologically speaking, than a single-crop > >chemicalized farm. However, the latter might produce more of that > >single crop than the former and thus appear more "economically > >productive". > > > >Furthermore, under conditions of competition (instead of cooperation), > >a farm ran "more like a business" would be tend to externalize more > >and more of its costs to remain competitive. The costs would still be > >there, they would just not be paid for by those who created them. They > >would instead be passed on to other social sectors with little voice > >in decision-making, to the environment, or to future generations. > >Because they are so economically and politically powerful, the big > >corporations can externalize their costs more easily and thus appear > >"more economically viable." > > > >By their very mindsets, organic farmers consciously avoid > >externalizing costs; also precisely by their very mindsets, > >businessmen and CEOs would externalize their costs whenever possible > >to improve their competitiveness. > > > >Under a context of a competitive market system therefore, the stacks > >are heavily loaded against the organic/ecological farmer, who will > >tend to appear more economically inefficient and unsustainable than > >the chemical/industrial farmer. > > > >Roberto Verzola > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 10:07:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29576 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:07:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20445 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:01:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20408 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:01:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04920 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:01:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from greg (tnt-9-29.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.125]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA05105; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:37:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199903291437.JAA05105@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Cc: "Steve Bonney" Subject: Sustainable/Organic agricultures hobby image Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:58:41 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 219 I promised to post this story a while back so here goes. Lei and I served on the Indiana Farm Bureau State Young Farmer Committee. The committee puts on a Leadership conference every January. Being on the committee, I decided that we should have some type of sustainable ag program as one of the break out sessions at the conference. There are normally about 5-7 break out topics each year. Last January, I got Steve Bonney, President of Sustainable Earth, to come and talk. I had tried for three years and finally succeeded. It was a good thing because it was our last year on the committee. His topic was Farm Profitability Strategies. He gave an excellent presentation. He talked briefly about increasing marketing margins, increased input costs, decreasing farm numbers and then shared how sustainable farmers are doing things to decrease input costs and increase their market price. I shouldn't have mentioned briefly because the presentation was 90 minutes. It was a good presentation explaining the need then the practical issues around sustainable agriculture. I thought he did a good job of presenting the issues in a manner to not offend a Farm Bureau Crowd. (He did better than I would have but I guess we are trying to make friends not enemies.) There apparently were others that felt the same way because quite a few came up to talk with him after the presentation, including one of the members of the State Farm Bureau board of directors who is now processing organic beans. I didn't even know we had FB board members growing and processing organic crops. The ironic part of the whole story is I have a good friend who is still on the state young farmer committee who was talking to some very "large" farmers after the presentation. They were apparently upset because one of the things Steve was talking about was watering vegetables and the possibility of farm ponds for this need. Well, that didn't set well to a 12,000 acre crop farmer who thought he would need a reservoir the size of the Ohio River to irrigate out of. I think he missed the point. This friend of mine, who didn't attend the session, decided that we should have labelled the session strategies for hobby farms instead of strategies for farm profitability. That is very ironic for two reasons. The first is that Steve used examples of farms that are supporting families and his whole talk was centered around ways to get started farming and ways to quit the off farm job! He talked about a grass dairy that supports two families, a CSA that supports a family, organic crop farms, etc. And the second reason it was ironic was my friend asked in the same phone call who he should talk with to find out the regulations to set up a retail pork store. Steve covered how to find out about regulations that need to be considered when attempting to move closer to consumers. Perhaps, if he attended the session he would have found the answers to his questions and seen that sustainable agriculture, at least in Indiana, is very concerned about our ability to support families. I gave him Steve Bonney's phone number as the best source of information on regulations in food processing/retail anyhow. Regulations are a serious marketing concern, especially in the livestock industry, and Steve did an excellent job of covering that. I think all of this brings up one point to me. One of the largest reasons sustainable agriculture is not taken seriously is we have a hobby farm mentality. What can we do to get rid of that stereotype? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 10:27:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29983 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:27:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA01413 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:27:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA01384 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:27:43 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903291427.JAA01384@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.145] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id ADBD346017A; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:27:09 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:23:36 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: economic sustainability Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 220 On 28 Mar 99 13:48:54, Roberto Verzola wrote: >An organic farm is so much more diverse and >therefore productive, ecologically speaking, than a single-crop >chemicalized farm. However, the latter might produce more of that >single crop than the former and thus appear more "economically >productive". Please don't make the assumption that an "organic" farm is by nature diverse. It is a common error to believe that organic farming is the pinnacle of sustainability. "It ain't necessarily so..." A *well-designed* organic farm is diverse, but most organic farms are not well designed, and unfortunately too many organic certification programs look the other way. There are certified organic farms (note the plural) that produce absolutely nothing but wheat. I inspect organic farms for a living, and have inspected something in excess of 600,000 acres in the last seven years. The majority of the farms I have inspected are probably not sustainable (almost certianly not agronomically sustainable, and probably not financially sustainable). I have worked with some absolutely inspiring organic farms, but a lot of them--especially cash croppers--are quite disappointing. This isn't going to sit well with the advocates of the 'poor, noble, oppressed farmer' school of thought, but far too many farmers coming over to organics are just plain lousy farmers in the first place, and think that the premiums will save their farm. They have cut back chemicals in an effort to save money, and they compare $16 organic specialty beans with $5 conventional dark-hilum beans and get on the phone to the certification program. If they have land coming out of CRP, so much the better. Then they ship a weedy crop with dirty seed coats and 15% splits, yet blame the buyer when they get docked for their own mis-handling of the crop. >Furthermore, under conditions of competition (instead of cooperation), >a farm ran "more like a business" would be tend to externalize more >and more of its costs to remain competitive. A good business doesn't *externalize* its costs to become competitive, it finds creative ways to ELIMINATE them. For example, when I was producing organic vegetables on a commercial scale (organically), the costs for keeping things weeded were substantial, and the revenue from those vegetables was several months down the road. First task, reduce the expense --- we cut it by over 70% by including forages in the rotation, abandoning early crops (more time for mechanical control in the spring), by bringing cattle into the system, and by standardizing our row system so that an $800 tool could take care of most early-season weeding. Second task, make sure we didn't have to pay interest on the money for the expenses we still did have --- so the end of July every year I would sell some of the cows. Cow prices are always good (relatively) in late July because people eat a lot of hamburgers, and most hamburgers are out on pasture until fall. I knew in advance how many I had to sell, and found reasons to cull that many. Come fall, when the vegetable money was in and cattle are cheap, I bought at least the same number of cows, and always of better quality than those I had sold. We weren't afraid to grade the vegetables tightly (good for marketing) because they were excellent feed for cattle. Vegetables improved the cattle (culling and better nutrition) and the cattle improved the vegetables (better weeding, good compost, and well-timed cash flow). And if you aren't asking it, you should be, so I'll tell you .... this guy isn't in the vegetable business right now because the only land he could afford in the 1970s was too stoney for really good vegetable production, and after three bad weather years in the late 80s I got out whille I still had some equity. I'm still looking for the right land -- at a price that will cash flow even when organic premiums are slim. >Because they are so economically and politically powerful, the big >corporations can externalize their costs more easily and thus appear >"more economically viable." I guess that's why Premium Standard is in and out of bankruptcy, in spite of abundant government assistance ?? >Under a context of a competitive market system therefore, the stacks >are heavily loaded against the organic/ecological farmer, who will >tend to appear more economically inefficient and unsustainable than >the chemical/industrial farmer. You folks that are discussing entire economic systems ... just don't get it. Sustainability happens *one farm at a time.* Research in Iowa has shown that continuous alfalfa has a higher *net* return per acre than any other rotation. Number 2 isn't even close. Alfalfa is agronomically and economically more sustainable than #2 yellow corn. There are Iowa farms (both conventional and organic) that have included a lot of alfalfa -- they're doing well. There are plenty of others (both conventional and organic) that have not, and many of those are struggling because their land system is hurting. Same climate. Same economic system. You can't blame either the climate or the economic system for those that are having trouble. I wish I had $100 for every organic farm that has bought equipment and/or land assuming that $16 beans are going to last forever. For every dairy farmer (organic or otherwise) that bought a new pick-up based on $16 milk. For every cash cropper that bought more land based on $4 corn and $8 beans. These are all *individual* decisions, and are generally quite poor allocations of scarce capital. As long as we persist in confusing association and *causality* in regard to free markets---assuming that because failing farms are associated with free markets they are *caused* by them---we will not be particularly useful to anyone. What we need to do is make sound (read sustainably oriented) agronomic and economic advice available to those *individual* farmers who want it. I'll repeat what I said in an earlier post --- the *well-managed* medium sized family farm (organic or conventional) can be an extremely successful competitor in the free market --- we need to develop and share tools for improving those management skills. Sustainability is built one farm at a time. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 10:45:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00449 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:45:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14864 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:56:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beeline.ca (honey.beeline.ca [209.135.75.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14829 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from s1h3p8 (s247.beeline.ca [209.135.75.247]) by beeline.ca id JAA31715 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:56:43 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990329095336.007a8540@mailserver.headwaters.com> X-Sender: jgold@mailserver.headwaters.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:53:36 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Jeff Gold Subject: Re: objectivity and university Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 221 1] An objective observer: one who is able to elucidate their subjective biases, assumptions and beliefs prior to describing their hypotheses, observations and conclusions. 2] Universities should collect, organize, store and disseminate knowledge; provide leadership to the rest of society in the practice and promotion of sustainable/regenerative activities; strive to overcome the compartmentaliztion and fragmentation of knowledge by embracing holistic analysis and thought; deliver an education that prepares the student for the future while at the same time illuminating the past; deliver educational services to the whole population , proactively and by any and all means. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 10:49:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA00519 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:49:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16150 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:00:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16118 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:00:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06316 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:00:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA14705 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:00:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-155.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.155) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014651; Mon Mar 29 08:59:40 1999 Message-ID: <013401be79f4$88028440$0df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Re: economic sustainability Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:57:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 222 Well said Greg we need to survive for our sustainable ag methods to survive. Beth >I don't know who I am arguing with here, but if Sustainable/organic farming >cannot find a way to compete economically in the current system then the >whole effort is futile. I'm not saying it can't justify premiums long >term. But it has to support families with a decent standard of living and >quality of life or no one is going to do it long term. Or should I say, at >least enough are not going to do it to have an impact on the ecosystem. We >have to develop sustainable agriculture systems that support families. >Most of us can not put our philosophical differences ahead of supporting >our families. And it is obvious that we have to support families and make >a profit if we want the rest of agriculture to take us serious. > >Is sustainable and organic agriculture doing its job of creating better >economic opportunities? (I've got an answer for that but I'll wait till >others answer first.) >Best wishes, >Greg >Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork >LaGrange, Indiana >visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 11:24:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01758 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:24:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04294 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:27:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04268 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from cisa- (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA18561 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:30:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990329103033.007a28c0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:30:33 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re:wow Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 223 First, a practical suggestion (gasp)! If some in the the group do not like "off topic" discussion, those who do can simply preface a subject line with the designation OT for off topic. That way people can bulk delete all messages which apparently exceed the stated parameters of this discussion, or at least irritate some of us. It works pretty well in another list I am on. Also, Lon was bemoaning the fact that he's not getting tons of help from all over especially because he's "developing new plants to further sustag." Well I can't say I have much help to offer but this is the first I've heard of his work. Gramma always says if you want help, you've got to ask for it...I visited his web site and now I am CERTAIN I have nothing to offer other than saying it looks neat and I am glad he is working on it. And that I wish I could find room for grapes in my yard (oops, off topic)! And on the subject of actually DOING stuff, I can't speak for the other philosophers out there but when I am not sitting on a mountaintop gazing at my navel pondering the nature of humanity, I am running an information and referral service for people with questions (technical, legal, financial and others) about farming; editing and writing a newsletter on agriculture, working on a large regional agriculture festival to connect farmers to consumers, planning and implementing a farm stand map to be distributed to over 40,000 residents in our area, and more. One of the ways people put down those of us who ask the big questions is to make us seem like we're out of touch with "real" issues. It is not only anti-intellectual and anti-thought, but plain wrong. I have more respect for someone who manages to ponder the big and little questions than someone holed away in a cubby somewhere focussing only on what is their immediate area of concern. Everyone of us needs to see what we do in the context of the big picture. We all have to live and work in this world and we better learn to deal with complex and interrelated issues or things'll keep going to hell in a handbasket. Fondly, Mark PS Anyone have any idea why the west coast garlic I planted in MA last fall is now 3-4 inches above the 6 inches of mulch in my garden? Is this some kind of super garlic (Georgia Fire; Kilarney Red) I'm dealing with? It seems mighty early but I'm not complaining. ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 11:24:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01762 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06447 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:34:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mg1.rockymtn.net (mailserv.rockymtn.net [166.93.205.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06388 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:34:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from rainbow.rmi.net (rainbow [166.93.8.14]) by mg1.rockymtn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29233; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:34:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from [166.93.67.232] (166.93.216.72.rmi.net [166.93.216.72]) by rainbow.rmi.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27531; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:33:46 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:35:38 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, piaseckj@carlton.edu, williamskat@hotmail.com From: Culbertson Subject: Colorado Organic Farm Internships Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 224 Pachamama Organic Farm, located 15 minutes north of Boulder, Colorado, has 2-3 internship positions available for the 1999 season. Interns will be working in all aspects of our 6 acre diversified vegetable operation including planting, weeding, harvesting, washing vegetables, CSA distribution, farmers markets and many other tasks too numerous to mention. Interns will live in a separate "intern house" including private bedroom, all utilities including phone, washer/dryer priviledges, organic vegetables, a $400.00/ month stipend and workman's comp. insurance. Work week will be Tuesday-Saturday, 8-12 hours/ day. Starts ASAP and runs through October. Must have own transportation. No smoking. Applicants must possess above average physical conditoning, a positive attitude, be dependale, honest, personable, and enjoy children. Must be a quick learner and able to carry out specific tasks quickly, and conscientously. This is an excellent opportunity to learn and gain hands-on organic market gardening expereience in the semi-arid Rocky Mountain region. Please email your phone # or call Ewell or Lauren Culbertson at (303) 776-1924 for more details and an interview. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 11:25:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01806 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07635 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:37:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA07580 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:37:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA25190; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:37:38 -0600 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xma023035; Mon, 29 Mar 99 09:35:45 -0600 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:35:45 -0600 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC06C@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet Subject: RE: soil discoveries Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:35:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 225 Steve and Joel, > We are putting in 3,400 ft of underground irrigation lines > and it has been fascinating to see what the soil profile > looks like across several different fields. Steve, your post, and the compost I was shoveling on Saturday reminded me of a question on the soil/plant relationship I have wondered about for a long time: What is the effect and value to the plant from (sub-meter) spatial heterogeneity in the soil? The compost I was using was mainly 1997 oak leaves. The leaves were packed and mostly dark and friable, interlaced with fungi and roots, with a deep mushroom odor. Along with the leaf mold were sticks up to an inch in diameter in various stages of decay. I put a large amount (about 10 bu on 150 square feet) because the bed really needed lightening up. I did my best to mix the compost in, but the soil is very heterogenous now. As roots explore this, they are going to find many diverse microenvironments. Aside from the difficulty of getting a good seedbed in this, I imagine this heterogeneity is good for plants. Even if the net characteristics of the soil would reduce availability of certain nutrients, the spatial/chemical diversity of the medium will insure that some part of the root system can find whatever the plant needs. This is why banded fertilizer application is so successful at getting P into the plant even under conditions conducive to P fixation. Roots grow into the region of nutrient availability. Perhaps one of the values of no-till is stratification of the profile into chemically distinct zones. Beneficial effect of heterogeneity could also be a rationale for incorporation of raw organic matter in minimum-till systems (a little like my garden bed). Zones of decaying residue might provide a more complete smorgasbord for plants. Other situations where spatial heterogeneity might be important include places where the subsoil has anion-exchange capacity, and under drip-irrigation. I found a few relevant abstracts I'll send you two personally (if anyone else wants them, let me know). Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 11:25:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01811 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:25:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09198 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:40:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mg1.rockymtn.net (mailserv.rockymtn.net [166.93.205.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09146 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:40:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from rainbow.rmi.net (rainbow [166.93.8.14]) by mg1.rockymtn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA00379 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:40:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [166.93.67.232] (166.93.216.72.rmi.net [166.93.216.72]) by rainbow.rmi.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01361 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:40:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:42:22 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Culbertson Subject: Colorado Farm Internship Available Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 226 Pachamama Organic Farm, located 15 minutes north of Boulder, Colorado, has 2-3 internship positions available for the 1999 season. Interns will be working in all aspects of our 6 acre diversified vegetable operation including planting, weeding, harvesting, washing vegetables, CSA distribution, farmers markets and many other tasks too numerous to mention. Interns will live in a separate "intern house" including private bedroom, all utilities including phone, washer/dryer priviledges, organic vegetables, a $400.00/ month stipend and workman's comp. insurance. Work week will be Tuesday-Saturday, 8-12 hours/ day. Starts ASAP and runs through October. Must have own transportation. No smoking. Applicants must possess above average physical conditoning, a positive attitude, be dependale, honest, personable, and enjoy children. Must be a quick learner and able to carry out specific tasks quickly, and conscientously. This is an excellent opportunity to learn and gain hands-on organic market gardening expereience in the semi-arid Rocky Mountain region. Please email your phone # or call Ewell or Lauren Culbertson at (303) 776-1924 for more details and an interview. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 12:17:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03133 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA02654 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:21:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from asrr.arsusda.gov (asrr.arsusda.gov [192.94.164.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02490 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from asrr.arsusda.gov (psi217.ba.ars.usda.gov [199.133.51.217]) by asrr.arsusda.gov (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09888; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:23:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36FFA8B0.893AF110@asrr.arsusda.gov> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:22:09 -0500 From: "Jamed D. Anderson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martha Wells CC: "'sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu'" , Ron Korcak Subject: Re: query about old sheetrock References: <01BE7846.772C7A40@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 227 Dr. Ronald Korcak, ARS, USDA at Beltsville Agricultural Research Center, Beltsville Maryland has carried out research on the use of wall board (sheetrock) from house construction. He can be reached at (rkorcak@asrr.arsusda.gov). I am sure he would be pleased to share his findings with you. Martha Wells wrote: > We have an old house that needs to be torn down. We are going to salvage > the wood from it for reuse, but it was built in 1956, has sheetrock > ceilings and walls. 'Experts' say sheetrock is primarily gypsum and should > break down. We wanted to chip the stuff up and use it to level the > driveways, not around food production. Has anyone any experience dealing > with old sheetrock, and if it can't be applied in this manner, how can it > be gotten rid of? > thanks for any thoughts > martha > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 12:21:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03231 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:21:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09252 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:33:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09241 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:33:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn27tc5.gdinet.com [156.46.27.28]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09123 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:34:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:34:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903291634.KAA09123@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: Mouse damage Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 228 Oncet I went and helped cut several Black Locust trees of sprawling demure. These were then trimmed of small branches, leaving the thicker ones only. The remaining branches were spaced such that large raptors would be incline to perch there upon. That being open to the ground, yet with some protective shielding from above. These trees, set upright amongst the fields, such as telephone poles with staubs, did thereby attract both owl and hawk, making existance of mice, plentifully difficult. Caretaking Prairie Dock Farm, I am Greg To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 12:41:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03641 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:41:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA18038 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:46:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA18009 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:46:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.119.60.93] (pa-ppp08.hevanet.com [204.119.60.93]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19726 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:46:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903291646.IAA19726@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:49:31 -0800 Subject: FW: wow From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 229 ---------- From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Mark Subject: Re: wow Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999, 8:48 AM Well, your reply was more thoughtful than most, which I appreciate. Though I can 't say "bemoan" is the term I would use - I wouldn't mind more income, but I'm not about to sell my soul for it. I'm sure a lot of people in sutainable ag could use more financial help. Mostly my letter was just because I was tired of seeing letters about "isms" where there should have been SANET topics. I do know that it will be a long time before I post a letter to a news group on any kind of disagreement I have with the content - written material just doesn't convey what I wanted and I don't care for the kinds of replies I got from a lot of people. Anyway, thank you for the comment on my web site. -Lon Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom --------------- >Also, Lon was bemoaning the fact that he's not getting tons of help from >all over especially because he's "developing new plants to further sustag." > Well I can't say I have much help to offer but this is the first I've >heard of his work. Gramma always says if you want help, you've got to ask >for it...I visited his web site and now I am CERTAIN I have nothing to >offer other than saying it looks neat and I am glad he is working on it. >And that I wish I could find room for grapes in my yard (oops, off topic)! > >And on the subject of actually DOING stuff, I can't speak for the other >philosophers out there but when I am not sitting on a mountaintop gazing at >my navel pondering the nature of humanity, I am running an information and >referral service for people with questions (technical, legal, financial and >others) about farming; editing and writing a newsletter on agriculture, >working on a large regional agriculture festival to connect farmers to >consumers, planning and implementing a farm stand map to be distributed to >over 40,000 residents in our area, and more. > >One of the ways people put down those of us who ask the big questions is to >make us seem like we're out of touch with "real" issues. It is not only >anti-intellectual and anti-thought, but plain wrong. I have more respect >for someone who manages to ponder the big and little questions than someone >holed away in a cubby somewhere focussing only on what is their immediate >area of concern. Everyone of us needs to see what we do in the context of >the big picture. We all have to live and work in this world and we better >learn to deal with complex and interrelated issues or things'll keep going >to hell in a handbasket. > >Fondly, > >Mark > >PS Anyone have any idea why the west coast garlic I planted in MA last >fall is now 3-4 inches above the 6 inches of mulch in my garden? Is this >some kind of super garlic (Georgia Fire; Kilarney Red) I'm dealing with? >It seems mighty early but I'm not complaining. > > > >---------------------------------------------------- >Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) >Hampshire College >893 West Street >Amherst MA 01002-5001 >T: 413-559-5338 >F: 413-559-5404 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 13:19:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05560 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:19:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:27:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09924 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:27:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09518 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:27:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from greg (tnt-5-2.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.2]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA16226 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:02:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199903291802.NAA16226@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Subject: My biggest complaint of off topic posts--Any suggestions? Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:24:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 230 My biggest complaint of the off topic posts is that I end up with too many of them in my inbox instead of my sanet folder. It is very easy to delete the whole sanet folder, but I have to individually delete posts that stay in the inbox. Anybody have any suggestions on getting all the sanet messages to end up in my sanet folder? Thanks in Advance, Greg Free Range Hog Farmer LaGrange, IN To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 13:36:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05986 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:36:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14241 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:39:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA14185 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:39:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA25162 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:39:29 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199903291739.MAA25162@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Killing rye To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:39:29 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 231 friends - we grow vegetables on our organic farm in SE Ohio and I usually cover the fields in Fall with rye. Problem is it's hard to kill in the Spring. I always till it as soon as I can get into the fields, but recently I read that rye doesn't come back after tilling if you wait until its over eight inches tall before tilling. This was news to me, and it's hard to believe. Anyone out there have an explanation for this? Kevin ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 13:52:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA06383 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:52:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA24020 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:56:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA23885 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:56:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA03465; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:56:40 -0600 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xma001678; Mon, 29 Mar 99 11:55:06 -0600 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:55:06 -0600 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC06F@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: objectivity and university Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:55:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 232 Ann, I liked what Cliff had to say about objectivity. Cliff wrote: > An objective observer: one who is able to elucidate their > subjective biases, assumptions and beliefs prior to describing > their hypotheses, observations and conclusions. Although impossible to eradicate our biases and inappropriate assumptions, the ability to set them aside temporarily, and see data from a variety of competing reference frames is essential. We have to be willing to be guided by nature, even if it means rejection of what we thought we knew. It has a lot to do with humility. Ann wrote: > Secondly, I'd be very interested in hearing your perceptions of > the unique and specific role(s) that publicly funded universities > (including but not limited to land grant) should be (not are) > playing in modern society. I don't think it is reasonable for the Universities to compete with big private companies in the areas they excel in. The power and resources that Pioneer is bringing to bear on sequencing the entire corn genome, and elucidating gene action, for example, overshadows anything in the public sector. But this raises some concerns. Since much of the knowledge is secret, it is not science in the traditional sense. Not part of the collective winnowing of knowledge performed by the institution of science. Also, the domain explored may not maximize the public good in certain ways. The universities should facilitate the gradual extraction and uncovering of proprietary knowledge by providing scientific career opportunities so scientists can move back and forth between industry and university. Second, the universities should, and are, researching areas overlooked or skipped by the private sector, including things that may not "pay", but may be important for the public good. For example, malaria control is very important for human well-being (bigger than AIDS), but it is hard to attract a lot of research dollars, since the main market is among the poor. The universities must do this kind of research. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 14:38:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA07303 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:38:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA16227 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:38:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice.mr.net (webpages.MR.Net [137.192.180.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA16171 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:38:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by postoffice.mr.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27688 at Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:38:19 -0600 (CST) SMTP "HELO" = [199.199.192.133] But _really_ from norshor2-3.nas.mr.net [199.199.192.133] SMTP "MAIL FROM" = alliance@mr.net SMTP "RCPT TO" = Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:38:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: steve@purefood.org, biotech-wg@igc.apc.org From: Ronnie Cummins Subject: UK Direct Action Protestors Found "Not Guilty" in Trial for Pulling Up Genetically Engineered Crops (Please Post) Cc: blilliston@uswest.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 233 *********************************** Genetic Engineering Network MEDIA RELEASE - EMBARGOED UNTIL 00.01 29 MARCH *********************************** "Campaigners declare victory as government set to back out of genetics trial" _________________________________________ Several hundred people are expected outside Plymouth Crown Court at 9.30am on Monday 29 March where two women who admitted uprooting genetically modified (GM) crops will hear - due to a high-level political U-turn - that all charges against them have been dropped. Jacklyn Sheedy and Liz Snook faced up to ten years in prison for 'conspiracy to commit criminal damage' worth 605,000 after removing GM maize on 3 August 1998 from a test site near Totnes, Devon, which threatened to contaminate sweetcorn on a neighbouring organic farm. After seven months of severe bail conditions, which included a 10pm - 6am curfew for the defendants, their lawyers received a highly unusual one-line letter saying that "for complex reasons the Crown intend to offer no evidence in the above case." The women's defence solicitor, Mike Schwartz, said of the decision: "We served the prosecution by midday last Monday with ten expert reports detailing the risks posed by genetic engineering and the failures of the regulatory system. Within 24 hours I was told that the prosecution were going to drop all charges. It was made clear to me in a telephone call from the Crown Prosecution Service that this was a decision made at the highest level: by the Director of Public Prosecutions, David Calvert-Smith QC." Mr. Schwartz continued: "This was a political, and in my experience, unprecedented decision. By withdrawing the case from the jury the Crown have accepted that there was compelling evidence that the defendants had a lawful excuse to remove the GM maize. The last thing the Crown wanted was to see a jury - a microcosm of society - acquit people who admitted taking direct action against GM crops." Jacklyn Sheedy, from the Genetic Engineering Network, said that the decision vindicated their action: "We have always admitted damaging the genetically engineered maize, and this decision shows that we were right to stand up to the bullying of the biotech companies I hope this encourages other communities to take action to protect our environment." Liz Snook added, "The government knows that ordinary people faced with the truth about genetic engineering would acquit us - and they just can't handle that kind of publicity. Questioning this technology really does make a dfference. The Totnes Community have fought hard against the GM invasion - this week NIAB announced that they will not be going ahead with planting GM crops at Hood Barton Farm, as had been planned. However, there are still hundreds of these test sites around the country. Even now irrevocable damage may have been done to the ecosystems on which we all ultimately depend. Everyone has the right to a GM-free environment." Photo and interview opportunities: The two defendants, their solicitor Mike Schwartz and local campaigners will be available for interview outside Plymouth Crown Court on Monday 29 March together with expert witnesses due to be fielded by the defence. A major demonstration of support is also expected, which will include a 'field of maize', musicians, banners and performers adding a party atmosphere. For interviews, the legal briefing for the submitted defence or further information contact Totnes Genetics Group on 011-44-1803-867951 or 011-44-7957-188621. NOTES FOR EDITORS: 1. The controversial test site of genetically engineered maize at Hood Barton Farm, Totnes, Devon was 275 metres from Riverford Farm, the largest organic vegetable producer in the the UK, run by Guy Watson. Mr Watson, supported by the Soil Association, Friends of the Earth and members of the local community, took the government to court last July after he found out that the organic status of his sweetcorn (valued at 20,000) was threatened by cross-pollination from the GE maize. The Court of Appeal ruled that the government had indeed broken seed regulations but the judge found that he had no power to order the destruction of the GM maize. 2. The government's advisory committee (ACRE) stated that at a 200 metre separation distance the likelihood of cross-pollination was 1 in 40,000. Confidence in the impartial nature of this advice was undermined last month by an independent report by the National Pollen Research Unit which found that it was more in the order of 1 in 93. A conservative estimate of the amount of pollen produced by each plant is 25 million grains. 3. The monks at Buckfast Abbey own twenty beehives which are immediately adjacent to the test site. ACRE failed to consider both the likelihood that honey produced by these bees would be contaminated by pollen from the GM crop, and also the fact that bees could carry the GM pollen for several miles to neighbouring crops. 4. Six hundred local people marched to the test site in protest before the crop was planted. After the government's failure to halt the trial approximately 20 people entered the field on 3 August 1998 to pull up the crop, thereby protecting the organic farm from GM contamination. Jacklyn Sheedy and Liz Snooks were arrested on the site and charged, ten others were arrested later and are still on bail. It now looks highly unlikely they will ever be charged. In the weeks after the arrests, 3000 local people signed a statement saying that they felt the action taken to remove the GM maize was in the public interest. 5. The genetically engineered maize was developed by Sharpes Seeds for resistance to glufosinate ammonium herbicide (brand name 'Liberty' or 'Basta') which is produced by AgrEvo corporation. Sharpes is a subsidiary of Advanta Holdings, itself half-owned by Zeneca, producers of the GM tomato paste sold in Safeways and Sainsbury's. The trial was being run by the National Institute for Agricultural Botany. 6. The two women were charged with 'conspiracy to cause' 605,000 worth of criminal damage - this being the total research and development cost for that entire variety of GM maize. 7. In Ireland seven people are facing similary charges for removing Monsanto's GM sugar beet. Their trial is due to begin on 31 March. Contact Davie Phillips: 011-353-1661-8123. 8. There is a 'Stop the Crop' protest action taking place in Scotland today in support of the Devon court case. For more information call 011-44-7775-905686. 9. For an arial photograph of the destroyed test site or a list of all known GM crop trials currently under way in the UK call 011-44-181-374-9516 FOR PHOTOGRAPHS FROM THE LOCAL CAMPAIGN CONTACT DAVE MCHUGH ON 011-44-468-721637 OR NICK COBBING ON 011-44-973 642103 email contact for more information: luke@togg.freeserve.co.uk ****************************************** LEGAL BRIEFING Devon case: R v Sheedy and Snook (Case No. T980556) Date and place of court appearance: Plymouth Crown Court, starting 29th March 1999. Defendants: Jacklyn Sheedy and Liz Snook. 10 other people were later arrested in connection with the same incident and are still awaiting a decision as to whether they too will be charged, they will learn this on 9th April though it now looks highly unlikely that they will be. Charge: Conspiracy to cause criminal damage worth 605,000; the charge carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in custody. Date and place of incident: 3rd August 1998, at Hood Barton Farm, near Totnes, Devon. This test site had already been the subject of controversial judicial review proceedings, which had sought to establish that the decision to authorise the trial was unlawful since it had not taken account of the presence of an organic farm owned by Guy Watson. In July 1998, the Court of Appeal had ruled that, although the crop trial breached seed listing regulations, the court had no reason to order it to stop. Crop involved: T-25, a variety of herbicide-resistant maize developed by Sharpes. Sharpes International Seeds is a subsidiary of Advanta Holdings and they are the product of a joint venture by Zeneca (formerly ICI) and Dutch company Vander Have. The maize is designed to be resistant to glufosinate ammonium herbicide, aka Liberty or Basta and is produced by AgrEvo. T25 also uses the cauliflower mosaic virus as a promotor. The trial was being run by NIAB. The defendants were set to prove that they had a lawful excuse for their actions. The Criminal Damage Act states that lawful excuse may include actions taken to prevent damage to one's own or another person's property rights or interests, as long as the action taken was proportionate to the damage feared. The defendants would have argued that: they were acting out of concern for public health and the wider environment, the public's right and ability to choose to eat non-GE food and the implications for sustainable agriculture, particularly in the developing world; specifically, they feared that the test site may have led to contamination of other nearby crops (including the neighbouring organic crop), causing them to loose value; they also feared that bees belonging to Buckfast Abbey would gather the GE pollen from the maize. There was a very real danger that their honey could have been contaminated in this, causing the honey to lose it's value. their action was justified by the inadequacies of the regulatory process, and specifically the fact that court action had failed to protect Guy Watson's organic crop; the maize was about to pollinate, hence the danger of contamination was imminent, and the defendants believed with good reason that it could not be prevented by other means. Expert witnesses will be called to testify that: wind-borne pollen can travel considerably further than has been allowed for in the regulations governing crop trials; bees can also carry pollen, over even greater distances (there are 20 beehives immediately adjacent to the field); moreover, the bees' honey could itself become contaminated and enter the food chain; other maize crops in the vicinity could become contaminated (by cross-pollination or other means), which could devalue those crops if they were (or were perceived to be) a risk to human health; there are many diverse ways in which the introduction of GE crops (and this crop in particular) could cause harm to human health, the environment and biodiversity, and the stability of agriculture in developing countries; the regulatory framework governing this trial had not taken account of many of the potential risks (notably cross-pollination by bees and economic damage to adjacent crops), and failed to comply with the precautionary principle in accordance with European Union directives; the regulations had, in any case, been breached by the crop trial. ************************************ Ronnie Cummins Campaign for Food Safety 860 Hwy 61 Little Marais, Mn. 55614 Tel. 218-226-4164 Fax 218-226-4157 email alliance@mr.net http://www.purefood.org Affiliated wirth the Organic Consumers Association Affiliated with the Center for Food Safety (Washington, D.C.) To subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Food Bytes, send an email to: majordomo@mr.net with the simple message: subscribe pure-food-action To subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Organic View, send an email to: info@organicconsumers.org with the simple message: subscribe To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 14:58:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08035 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24504 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:52:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24488 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:52:22 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 7FNOa01939 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:51:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:51:54 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: A Sample Letter to NAS ( BANR-O-99-02-A) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 206 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 234 To: Committee on Genetically Modified Crops Containing Pesticide Genes, National Academy of Sciences BANR-O-99-02-A I am concerned that the committee that is reviewing the health, safety, and environmental impact of genetically engineered agricultural products is made up primarily of scientists that derive their livelihood from genetic engineering, work for organizations who rely on grants from bio-engineering companies, or are official regulators of the technology (and therefore cannot easily take a public stand against it). It would almost appear that the role of this committee is to get an NAS rubber-stamp to proceed, while many scientists in the US, Europe and Asia are questioning the long-term environmental impact of this technology. Ornithologists and entymologists are concerned about the destruction of beneficial insects (through Bt ingestion) and mass death of birds that prey on these (and pest) insects. Ecologists are concerned about horizontal gene transfer to similar species of plants (through cross-pollination), recombination of plant viruses used as the DNA transfer mechanism, and genetic pollution of the biosphere. Agronomists are concerned about the massive transformation of the biodiversity of food plant species to monocultures. Economists are concerned about the transformation of entire rural economies from subsistence horticulture to cash commodity agriculture. Medical doctors are concerned that the enzymes and proteins expressed by the inserted or modified genes may have adverse health effects, such as the increase in allergy to RRS soybeans found in Europe. Geneticists have warned that the genetic material of the food we consume survives our digestive process and impacts our cellular material. Dr. Arpad Pusztai, of the Rowett Institute in the United Kingdom, has shown in experiments that rats fed genetically modified potatoes for 10 days presented damage to the brain, immune system, spleen, thymus, liver and stomach lining. His work was peer-reviewed and supported by 22 scientists. Yet none of the many scientifically credentialed critics of agricultural genetic engineering have been included on the committee destined to provide a review of this technology in the name of the National Academy of Sciences. Without such members on the committee, and an unrestricted open debate about the full range of issues, any report that the committee prepares will, by its very nature, be discredited before it is published. I strongly urge you to reconsider the membership of the committee to include serious critics of the technology, so as to make them at least 50% of the membership of the committee. Posted by: Steve Sprinkel ( from a recent post to BAN-GEF) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 17:15:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11649 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:15:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA20907 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:24:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20902 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:24:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.131]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA22466 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:21:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990329152019.006cebe0@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:20:19 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: squirrels (and politics) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA20903 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 235 Dear SANET, Could someone give us some tips on controlling squirrels, a major pest in our organic cacao orchards in the Lacandon rainforest. Surely some Northern fruit growers have had to deal with this problem. Posts about politics and agriculture are not "off topic". Politics came first in human evolution--states and state-like polities, kings and political bosses--and it was politics that obligated people to become farmers. Before politics there was plenty to go around and we just didn't need to farm. then came city states and politics and people were corraled (by force, usually) into working much harder to feed the "politicians"--and thus it has been for 10,000 years. Of course, we have all the benefits of civilization. But we better pay attention to (and discuss) the politics if farmers are to retain something akin to freedom. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 18:02:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA12821 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA17337 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:13:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA17269 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:13:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA12807 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:13:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.43); 29 Mar 99 17:13:13 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.43); 29 Mar 99 17:13:12 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:13:11 EST Subject: Re: bias on NAS committee? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <38950D4E50@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 236 Folks: most of the names on this committee were not known to me, but some were familiar. Gould and Snow, for example, have done some very good basic and applied work at least some of which has been beneficial to those arguing against GE. Two others, at least from their resumes, are clearly at the "advocate" end of the spectrum. But the rest appear, at least on paper, to be neutral. Am I being too naive on this? Can someone give us clear evidence, such as publications or job history not presented in the previous post, to substantiate the claim of bias in this committee? I understand further that the USDA is undertaking its own GE review. Anyone with news to report there? Including membership and mandate? A final query - can anyone report on the findings of Citizens Consensus conferences relating to GE in countries around the world? Appreciate the help. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 18:27:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13688 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:27:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA05441 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:42:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05421 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:42:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.119.60.200] (li-ppp19.hevanet.com [204.119.60.200]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA29984; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:42:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903292242.OAA29984@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:45:48 -0800 Subject: FW: Sunflower Stalks Trap More Snow From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET CC: AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 237 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Sunflower Stalks Trap More Snow Date: Mon, Mar 29, 1999, 11:43 AM STORY LEAD: Sunflower Stalks Trap More Snow ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA March 29, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- When fierce 30-mile-per-hour-plus winds swept across some research fields in Akron, Colo., this winter, they hit a 2-1/2 foot high "wall" of sunflower stalks left after last fall's harvest. That wall kept soil from blowing away. Had it not been an unusually dry winter in Akron, that wind would have carried snow -- and that wall would have trapped 3 to 10 times more snow than would normally accumulate. Agronomist David C. Nielsen with the Agricultural Research Service in Akron found that 2-1/2 feet is the height needed to trap enough snow to add 3 to 9 more inches of soil water. This makes up for soil water used by the sunflower crop and makes sunflowers a worthwhile alternative to wheat in the arid Great Plains. There, average precipitation is only 16.5 inches a year. Rain is so scarce that most farmers traditionally have dared plant a crop only every other year, leaving the ground bare or fallow for a year to save up enough soil water for a crop. But through research such as Nielsen's, farmers increasingly plant crops two or three years in a row--and make more cash. And since rains don't fall to suit farmers' timetables, planting an additional crop like sunflowers gives them a better chance to get the timing right for at least one crop. Leaving stalks or other plant residues on the ground after harvest is what makes the annual crops possible. The residue provides a soil mulch that reduces evaporation, stores water for the next crop and fights wind erosion, according to Nielsen, with ARS' Central Great Plains Research Station. The ARS scientists have found that sunflower yields are best when the crop is rotated in every fourth year. The usual rotation is wheat-millet-sunflower-fallow. This gives time for sunflower diseases and other pests to die out. ---------- Scientific contact: David C. Nielsen, ARS Central Great Plains Research Station, Akron, CO 80720, phone (970) 345-0507, fax (970) 345-2088, dnielsen@lamar.colostate.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 18:38:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14010 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:38:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA15454 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:59:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA15390 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:59:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000109166 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:55:46 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:56:08 GMT Subject: Do cows avoid Bt corn? Message-ID: <544866270.66789838@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 238 Does anyone have a reliable source of information on this? There is a story going around that farmers in Nebraska have observed that cattle prefer natural corn to Bt corn. Apparently, cows were in a field that contained both kinds of corn and they ate all the natural corn before they would touch the Bt corn. If this were true, it would be significant since Bt corn is sold as feed. It would suggest that the taste or some other property of the Bt corn might be aversive. >From a subscriber Posted by Judy Kew -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 22:14:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA17371 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:14:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA19788 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:30:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19784 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:30:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from computer (ip18.ts11.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.86.18]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with ESMTP id VAA09124 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:30:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903300230.VAA09124@cyberus.ca> From: "Gord Hawkes" To: Subject: Re: of mice and mumbles, traps, fences and snakes Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:29:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 239 Wow. Great responses from all stripes. Although I contend that an explicit description of subject in the subject line is useful, I recognize that discussion of sustainable agriculture does not fall neatly in a box and does leak into various other streams of thought, observation and even consiousness. On the matter of my mice problems, particularly their nasty girdling habits, the history of the orchard is that mice were controlled by the previous owner through the use of mouse bait. Mouse bait obviously worked as girdling was not a problem then. However, I contend that mouse bait, which causes a slow and agonizing death to the mouse also poisons mouse predators i.e. raptors, fox, coyotes and wolves. So, since we have owned the orchard the mouse population has likely exploded and the predator population is somewhat lagging. We will next year protect the trees with guards which we do with the newly planted trees. The natural balance will return but it will take time. So too will the bridge grafting. On the issue of the economics of sustainable agriculture (I can't believe I'm wading into this and I apologize). Why is success measured in terms of economic impact and, by the way, what is economic viability? I would think that the success of a sustainable farm is measured on two distinct levels 1) to have the least amount of negative impact on the natural order/ecosystem and 2) the level of prosperity it brings to the unit and those directly serviced by the unit (economic speak). I do not believe it is necessary to adopt the "success" measures used by corporations and economists to determine the viability of sustainable agriculture. Why is it that economists decide whether certain practices are viable (?) or deemed to be viable on the basis of meeting some arbitrary standards that they establish? Furthermore, do we have to prove something to others (i.e. conventional farmers, corporations, economists, etc) in order to feel and acknowledge the worth of our practices? I truly hope this is making some sense (it is in my head - but sometimes the words betray me). I don't expect to change the world nor do I expect that conventional agriculture will embrace my practices as sound. I certainly don't expect an economist to sanction my practices as economically viable. I do know that quiet persistence and demonstrated successes, using my terms, do turn some heads. Will sustainable agriculture ever reach the mainstream? Maybe not, but it will always be there and will have to be reckoned with on our terms and not on the terms of economists. In answer to your question Greg "Is sustainable and organic agriculture doing its job of creating better economic opportunities"? I dunno! It does however allow me to appreciate the simple pleasures of life, teach my children the values of life and nature, express those values to my customers and students, draws the curious to have a closer look, and puts money in our pocket and food on the table. I'm not sure whether it has to create better economic opportunities. Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, Ontario Canada K0A 2W0 ---------- > From: Argall Family > To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: of mice and mumbles, traps, fences and snakes > Date: Sunday, March 28, 1999 6:17 PM > > I think you have to have discussion. Sustainable agriculture is just an > aspect of sustainable human occupation of the planet, a large subject, and > both depend on two major things, observation and thought. > > The best thought requires conversation, and I have found that the best ideas > often come from the promptings of virtual irrelevancies on the mind, not > from tight discipline at a town meeting. And it does not help for another > person to slag those who express ideas as never having done anything > practical. Otherwise others in turn will get into the same rut and damn > practical people for being poor thinkers. > > I have some thoughts on the mice; pardon if I mention things you know well, > I'm trying to be thorough. > > I do not have problems with deer, but I do have some problems with mice and > with a deer equivalent, wallabies - not to mention the fruit competition > from parrots and bower birds. And I used to have a major problem with > neighbour's cows. And briefly in the eighties I was stupid enough to have > goats and fruit trees on one property. What I do not have is a problem of > spring emergence from a snowbound winter. > > I take it that the problem is on the annual regular scale, rather than the > sort of mad breeding in odd weather/crop circumstances that saw millions and > millions of mice marauding south eastern Australia in the early nineties, > driving cows and people insane, and to which governments responded with > air-dropped poisoned wheat, which may or may not have been the reason why > the plague fell away. It is also not clear whether you are trying to do > something new in your region, in terms of the orcharding or particular fruit > tree types. Here we might try traps with food lures for mice, from which the > mice fall where they cannot escape. It may be still too cold in Ontario to > have them fall into water, on which I imagine even mice might walk at this > time of year at night up your way, but a barrel with slippery inescapable > sides might be otherwise contrived below a food lure on a pirates' plank. > > Is this a brief annual mouse problem of predator numbers rising a bit too > slowly in spring, or is there a serious lack of predators? Longer term, do > you need to provide more accommodation for raptores, etc? Are there local > ornithologists to advise you? What allows the mice to breed up before other > feed is sufficient? > > My mouse problem is modest/non-existent in the orchard, control of which I > share with the pretty and shy red bellied black snake and the occasional > glamorous python (but I do try to remove death adders (which wait for you as > quietly as a cow pat) and tiger snakes (which can jump at you from 10ft)). > Kookaburras (large kingfisher) are wonderful, and have been known to ride > bulldozer blades going to the hunt. > > Shed problems (electric insulation attracts the protected marsupial mice > too) require good building closure, building away from forest, trapping. > Poisoned rodents must not be able to escape to where they can be eaten, as I > am sure you appreciate. Do you have snakes in your area that deal with mice? > Are mice breeding up on stored or spilled grain, heading out across country > in early spring? Keep a python in the shed? Blame neighbouring grain farms, > open barns? > > The deer-taking-new-growth is much like the wallaby (small kangaroo) problem > we have, but it is interesting that both birds and wallabies are selective > about what they take, and favour, notably, plum over peach or nectarine, > pear ahead of apple. My approach is to allow to some extent, the survivors > to select themselves: e.g. early on, apricots made their own decision to > turn up their heals in the local micro-climate. Some apples do much better > than others, similarly. I don't try hard to protect the plums from having > their shoots taken; they have to hack it or go. The pears have gotten above > the wallaby reach, for the most part. Do the deer discriminate, or is their > damage wholesale? Where that kind of problem exists here (cattle, goats on > the loose), the answer is either adequate fencing (and I have found fat > white [for horses] electric tape useful - yellow may do better with snow on > the ground*) culling or removal of the pest. That I can't do with the > wallabies, nor are they easy to fence out. I have established some good > pasture for them away from the orchard, in an open reserve giving them > access also to the creek. Also a dog helps, but you need to be there at the > right time with the right dog. Piddle (human, dog) on the trees may or may > deter deer, but it's cheap to try, and may help the trees, if not put on the > young leaves themselves. Put a little in a milk bottle each night; maybe you > could make a sub-snow piddle cache over winter - think of that bottle > collection growing! > > To get really depressed about deer in spring (among other things) read John > Updike's 'Towards the End of Time'. > > Dennis Argall > Mount Eurobodalla > Bodalla NSW Australia > > *FENCING:: I have had a flood problem which has made it unwise to have heavy > fence around the orchard. If deer are bad, a strong piece of galvanised > wire, snagging logs going through the orchard, is worse. I use fibreglass > posts, with multiple strands of tape attached to one post, and attached with > a breakaway tie at the next post. This system may work if you are needing to > put out fence quickly and have to adjust to snow levels, new plantings, etc. > It won't stop a charging animal, but what will. The 'breakaway' connection > is made by having a curtain ring - the cheap kind like a simple key-ring - > attached to the post and tape, so that the loose end from the next post is > looped to go through the double part of the curtain ring, being held with a > small piece of stick. You can get a reasonable strain by using trees at > corners to brace such a system. You have to wire the thing so that the bit > that falls to the ground is not live. > (Maybe a device detecting a fence break, or sudden earthing, could let out a > bark or some other deterrent sound.) > Where neighbours with fancy fences have lost the lot in big floods, I have > put mine back together, 400 metres all broken through, in an hour or so. > Same system might be helpful in snow areas. With a fence like that you can > run it through the orchard too, not just around it, to make life difficult > for intruders. It must be very visible and identifiable and you need to > check it daily. If your orchard is small, you could use a product sold here > but imported, I think, from the USA, called Electranet, which is 50 metres > long and 1.8 metres high multiple strand electric fence, easily moved, with > tread-in posts, which is primarily used here to keep chickens safe from > foxes and dingoes, and does that well. Can you run poultry in the orchard, > or is it still too cold for that? They might reduce the cover for mice and > get some of them, if allowed to forage in the litter during the day. They > might also attract raptores. > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Mar 29 23:30:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA18582 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 23:30:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA25339 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:32:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA25290 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:32:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-47ppp56.epix.net [209.74.47.56]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA21585; Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:32:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37004660.BA8EF0C0@epix.net> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:34:57 -0500 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bluestem Associates CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: economic sustainability and the organic myth References: <199903291427.JAA01384@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 240 Bluestem Associates wrote: > Please don't make the assumption that an "organic" farm is by nature > diverse. It is a common error to believe that organic farming is the > pinnacle of sustainability. "It ain't necessarily so..." A > *well-designed* organic farm is diverse, but most organic farms are not > well designed, and unfortunately too many organic certification > programs look the other way. There are certified organic farms (note > the plural) that produce absolutely nothing but wheat. Bart Hall, Thanks for your insightful comments regarding organic farming as, "not the pinnacle of sustainablilty". The myth that organic agriculture is synonymous with sustainablity needs to be addressed. I wholeheartedly agree with your closing statement, "Sustainability is built one farm at a time". Steve Groff > > > I inspect organic farms for a living, and have inspected something in > excess of 600,000 acres in the last seven years. The majority of the > farms I have inspected are probably not sustainable (almost certianly > not agronomically sustainable, and probably not financially > sustainable). I have worked with some absolutely inspiring organic > farms, but a lot of them--especially cash croppers--are quite > disappointing. > > This isn't going to sit well with the advocates of the 'poor, noble, > oppressed farmer' school of thought, but far too many farmers coming > over to organics are just plain lousy farmers in the first place, and > think that the premiums will save their farm. They have cut back > chemicals in an effort to save money, and they compare $16 organic > specialty beans with $5 conventional dark-hilum beans and get on the > phone to the certification program. If they have land coming out of > CRP, so much the better. Then they ship a weedy crop with dirty seed > coats and 15% splits, yet blame the buyer when they get docked for > their own mis-handling of the crop. > > >Furthermore, under conditions of competition (instead of cooperation), > >a farm ran "more like a business" would be tend to externalize more > >and more of its costs to remain competitive. > > A good business doesn't *externalize* its costs to become competitive, > it finds creative ways to ELIMINATE them. For example, when I was > producing organic vegetables on a commercial scale (organically), the > costs for keeping things weeded were substantial, and the revenue from > those vegetables was several months down the road. > > First task, reduce the expense --- we cut it by over 70% by including > forages in the rotation, abandoning early crops (more time for > mechanical control in the spring), by bringing cattle into the system, > and by standardizing our row system so that an $800 tool could take > care of most early-season weeding. > > Second task, make sure we didn't have to pay interest on the money for > the expenses we still did have --- so the end of July every year I > would sell some of the cows. Cow prices are always good (relatively) in > late July because people eat a lot of hamburgers, and most hamburgers > are out on pasture until fall. I knew in advance how many I had to > sell, and found reasons to cull that many. > > Come fall, when the vegetable money was in and cattle are cheap, I > bought at least the same number of cows, and always of better quality > than those I had sold. We weren't afraid to grade the vegetables > tightly (good for marketing) because they were excellent feed for > cattle. Vegetables improved the cattle (culling and better nutrition) > and the cattle improved the vegetables (better weeding, good compost, > and well-timed cash flow). > > And if you aren't asking it, you should be, so I'll tell you .... this > guy isn't in the vegetable business right now because the only land he > could afford in the 1970s was too stoney for really good vegetable > production, and after three bad weather years in the late 80s I got out > whille I still had some equity. I'm still looking for the right land -- > at a price that will cash flow even when organic premiums are slim. > > >Because they are so economically and politically powerful, the big > >corporations can externalize their costs more easily and thus appear > >"more economically viable." > > I guess that's why Premium Standard is in and out of bankruptcy, in > spite of abundant government assistance ?? > > >Under a context of a competitive market system therefore, the stacks > >are heavily loaded against the organic/ecological farmer, who will > >tend to appear more economically inefficient and unsustainable than > >the chemical/industrial farmer. > > You folks that are discussing entire economic systems ... just don't > get it. Sustainability happens *one farm at a time.* Research in Iowa > has shown that continuous alfalfa has a higher *net* return per acre > than any other rotation. Number 2 isn't even close. Alfalfa is > agronomically and economically more sustainable than #2 yellow corn. > There are Iowa farms (both conventional and organic) that have included > a lot of alfalfa -- they're doing well. There are plenty of others > (both conventional and organic) that have not, and many of those are > struggling because their land system is hurting. Same climate. Same > economic system. You can't blame either the climate or the economic > system for those that are having trouble. > > I wish I had $100 for every organic farm that has bought equipment > and/or land assuming that $16 beans are going to last forever. For > every dairy farmer (organic or otherwise) that bought a new pick-up > based on $16 milk. For every cash cropper that bought more land based > on $4 corn and $8 beans. These are all *individual* decisions, and are > generally quite poor allocations of scarce capital. > > As long as we persist in confusing association and *causality* in > regard to free markets---assuming that because failing farms are > associated with free markets they are *caused* by them---we will not be > particularly useful to anyone. What we need to do is make sound (read > sustainably oriented) agronomic and economic advice available to those > *individual* farmers who want it. I'll repeat what I said in an > earlier post --- the *well-managed* medium sized family farm (organic > or conventional) can be an extremely successful competitor in the free > market --- we need to develop and share tools for improving those > management skills. Sustainability is built one farm at a time. > > Bart Hall > Lawrence, Kansas > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 06:36:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22959 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:36:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA21039 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:12:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA20929 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:12:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from p2 (ppp62-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.62]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA19185 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:12:50 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: Killing rye Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:22:19 +1000 Message-ID: <000401be7a97$31435820$3e3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199903291739.MAA25162@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 241 Kevin [1] would you have less of a problem, equal benefit, planting cheap seed oats? [2] Are you using rye as for grass, or rye corn? Dennis >...friends - we grow vegetables on our organic farm in SE Ohio and I usually cover the fields in Fall with rye. Problem is it's hard to kill in the Spring. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 08:01:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA24091 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:01:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA18325 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:50:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ww181.netaddress.usa.net (ww181.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.81]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA18321 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:50:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 22753 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Mar 1999 11:50:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990330115046.22752.qmail@ww181.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.81 by ww181 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.30) on Tue Mar 30 11:50:46 GMT 1999 Date: 30 Mar 99 03:50:46 PST From: Ann Ellis To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: organic greenhouse production X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.30) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id GAA18322 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 242 I have worked,growing bedding plants and vegetable transplants, in a greenhouse in central Illinois for 15+ years. I am going to build my own greenhouse and would like to grow above mentioned crops organically. I would also like to grow tomatoes and salad crops in soil, during the winter. Is there anyone in the central IL. area with information, advice or precautions about an endeavor of this sort? I have read Eliot Coleman's "The New Organic Grower" and would like to explore his ideas in this project, including the use of moveable greenhouses. Is there anyone I could discuss greenhouse structural engineering with? Ann Ellis Atlanta, IL ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 09:03:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26072 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:03:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA21855 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:47:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from iac12.navix.net (iac12.navix.net [207.91.5.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA21826 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:47:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from navix.net (cras45p19.navix.net [206.158.194.149]) by iac12.navix.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA05557; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:30:54 -0600 Message-ID: <3700E0FC.79421322@navix.net> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:34:36 -0800 From: Richard Mazour X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sgroff@epix.net, "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: economic sustainability and the organic myth References: <199903291427.JAA01384@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37004660.BA8EF0C0@epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 243 I am a organic farmer certified with OCIA. Our Nebraska chapter #1 does not permit growing the same crop the second year . Small grains are to be used in a row crop rotation. In other words, farmers can't have just a corn soybean rotation. This is forcing diversity. I think livestock should be part of the rotation also, how about you? Rich Steve Groff wrote: > Bluestem Associates wrote: > > > Please don't make the assumption that an "organic" farm is by nature > > diverse. It is a common error to believe that organic farming is the > > pinnacle of sustainability. "It ain't necessarily so..." A > > *well-designed* organic farm is diverse, but most organic farms are not > > well designed, and unfortunately too many organic certification > > programs look the other way. There are certified organic farms (note > > the plural) that produce absolutely nothing but wheat. > > Bart Hall, > Thanks for your insightful comments regarding organic farming as, "not the > pinnacle of sustainablilty". The myth that organic agriculture is > synonymous with sustainablity needs to be addressed. > I wholeheartedly agree with your closing statement, "Sustainability is > built one farm at a time". > > Steve Groff > > > > > > > I inspect organic farms for a living, and have inspected something in > > excess of 600,000 acres in the last seven years. The majority of the > > farms I have inspected are probably not sustainable (almost certianly > > not agronomically sustainable, and probably not financially > > sustainable). I have worked with some absolutely inspiring organic > > farms, but a lot of them--especially cash croppers--are quite > > disappointing. > > > > This isn't going to sit well with the advocates of the 'poor, noble, > > oppressed farmer' school of thought, but far too many farmers coming > > over to organics are just plain lousy farmers in the first place, and > > think that the premiums will save their farm. They have cut back > > chemicals in an effort to save money, and they compare $16 organic > > specialty beans with $5 conventional dark-hilum beans and get on the > > phone to the certification program. If they have land coming out of > > CRP, so much the better. Then they ship a weedy crop with dirty seed > > coats and 15% splits, yet blame the buyer when they get docked for > > their own mis-handling of the crop. > > > > >Furthermore, under conditions of competition (instead of cooperation), > > >a farm ran "more like a business" would be tend to externalize more > > >and more of its costs to remain competitive. > > > > A good business doesn't *externalize* its costs to become competitive, > > it finds creative ways to ELIMINATE them. For example, when I was > > producing organic vegetables on a commercial scale (organically), the > > costs for keeping things weeded were substantial, and the revenue from > > those vegetables was several months down the road. > > > > First task, reduce the expense --- we cut it by over 70% by including > > forages in the rotation, abandoning early crops (more time for > > mechanical control in the spring), by bringing cattle into the system, > > and by standardizing our row system so that an $800 tool could take > > care of most early-season weeding. > > > > Second task, make sure we didn't have to pay interest on the money for > > the expenses we still did have --- so the end of July every year I > > would sell some of the cows. Cow prices are always good (relatively) in > > late July because people eat a lot of hamburgers, and most hamburgers > > are out on pasture until fall. I knew in advance how many I had to > > sell, and found reasons to cull that many. > > > > Come fall, when the vegetable money was in and cattle are cheap, I > > bought at least the same number of cows, and always of better quality > > than those I had sold. We weren't afraid to grade the vegetables > > tightly (good for marketing) because they were excellent feed for > > cattle. Vegetables improved the cattle (culling and better nutrition) > > and the cattle improved the vegetables (better weeding, good compost, > > and well-timed cash flow). > > > > And if you aren't asking it, you should be, so I'll tell you .... this > > guy isn't in the vegetable business right now because the only land he > > could afford in the 1970s was too stoney for really good vegetable > > production, and after three bad weather years in the late 80s I got out > > whille I still had some equity. I'm still looking for the right land -- > > at a price that will cash flow even when organic premiums are slim. > > > > >Because they are so economically and politically powerful, the big > > >corporations can externalize their costs more easily and thus appear > > >"more economically viable." > > > > I guess that's why Premium Standard is in and out of bankruptcy, in > > spite of abundant government assistance ?? > > > > >Under a context of a competitive market system therefore, the stacks > > >are heavily loaded against the organic/ecological farmer, who will > > >tend to appear more economically inefficient and unsustainable than > > >the chemical/industrial farmer. > > > > You folks that are discussing entire economic systems ... just don't > > get it. Sustainability happens *one farm at a time.* Research in Iowa > > has shown that continuous alfalfa has a higher *net* return per acre > > than any other rotation. Number 2 isn't even close. Alfalfa is > > agronomically and economically more sustainable than #2 yellow corn. > > There are Iowa farms (both conventional and organic) that have included > > a lot of alfalfa -- they're doing well. There are plenty of others > > (both conventional and organic) that have not, and many of those are > > struggling because their land system is hurting. Same climate. Same > > economic system. You can't blame either the climate or the economic > > system for those that are having trouble. > > > > I wish I had $100 for every organic farm that has bought equipment > > and/or land assuming that $16 beans are going to last forever. For > > every dairy farmer (organic or otherwise) that bought a new pick-up > > based on $16 milk. For every cash cropper that bought more land based > > on $4 corn and $8 beans. These are all *individual* decisions, and are > > generally quite poor allocations of scarce capital. > > > > As long as we persist in confusing association and *causality* in > > regard to free markets---assuming that because failing farms are > > associated with free markets they are *caused* by them---we will not be > > particularly useful to anyone. What we need to do is make sound (read > > sustainably oriented) agronomic and economic advice available to those > > *individual* farmers who want it. I'll repeat what I said in an > > earlier post --- the *well-managed* medium sized family farm (organic > > or conventional) can be an extremely successful competitor in the free > > market --- we need to develop and share tools for improving those > > management skills. Sustainability is built one farm at a time. > > > > Bart Hall > > Lawrence, Kansas > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > -- > "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable > agriculture > http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com > Steve Groff > Cedar Meadow Farm > 679 Hilldale Rd > Holtwood PA 17532 USA > Ph. 717-284-5152 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 10:00:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28960 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA01737 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:54:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01706 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:56:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: PESP RFP announced (Pesticide Environmental Stewardship Program) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:56:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 244 Contact Lisa Donahue at donahue.lisa@epa gov or 215-814-2062. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >ATTENTION: The 1999 Pesticide >Environmental Stewardship Program >(PESP) Call for Proposals has been >announced in the Federal Register. > >It is available on the Internet at >http://www.epa.gov/oppbppd1/PESP/grants.htm >and the underlying initiative >grants ("regional grants") link. The >Call for Proposals details eligibility >and project types, and provides >necessary forms. Please note that >there are no special regional criterial >for Region III. > >Federal share of projects are for >$40,000 or less. The deadline for >Proposals is May 3, 1999. > >If you have any questions, or need a >hard copy of the Call for Proposals >mailed to you, please contact Lisa Donahue at >donahue.lisa@epa gov or 215-814-2062. >Please feel free to forward this >message to others who may be >interested. > >Thank you. > >Lisa Donahue >EPA Region III To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 11:08:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00796 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:08:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17573 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:18:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17563 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:18:11 -0500 (EST) From: cjb32@cornell.edu Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (travelers.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.13]) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06919; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:18:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:18:11 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: cjb32@travelers.mail.cornell.edu To: Richard Mazour cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: sustainability and the organic myth In-Reply-To: <3700E0FC.79421322@navix.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 245 Rich et al: I agree with you that diversity of production is key, and that proper integration of animals into cropping systems, be they vegetable or grain, is a very convenient (profitable and widely adaptable) way to move a step closer to sustainability, (not, of course, the only way.) But here goes: I wonder how well organic production (I guess I'm thinking vegetable production in particular) works without the integration of animals in some form (trucked in manure, blood meal, bone meal... animals present on farm...) especially in terms of profitability. Any thoughts? Caitlin Brady To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 11:10:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00812 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:10:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12952 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mcleodusa.net (email1-1.mcleod.net [208.16.32.20]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12883 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.16.42.79] ([208.16.42.79]) by mcleodusa.net ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:05:10 -600 X-Sender: marant@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199903282310.SAA18242@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:46:40 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Matt Arant Subject: Re: objectivity and university Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 246 Ann Clark wrote: >Folks: I would appreciate your thoughts on the definition of >"objectivity", as in "objective science-based research" or "s/he is an >objective researcher". Define, rather than describe it - if you can. With respect to propositions,"objectivity" means capable of being determined true or false without respect to an individual perspective; and with respect to people, it means the ability, or the exercise thereof, to put aside one's own perspective and consider propositions from a universal perspective. Since all qualitative perceptions have been observed to vary from individual to individual (and even from time to time for a given individual), it seems that the truth values of all objective propositions must have quantities as their sole determinants. >Secondly, I'd be very interested in hearing your perceptions of the >unique and specific role(s) that publicly funded universities >(including but not limited to land grant) should be (not are) playing >in modern society. Geez. I haven't got my /first/ dissertation finished yet. Are we talking about Canadian universities or "sub-Canadian"? The differences in social structure are considerable enough, it seems to me, that this has to be taken into account. I'm not sure I would have very much to say about universities in general without any reference to their social contexts. Would you consider narrowing the inquiry a bit? Matt A. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 11:23:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01094 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:23:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22247 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:29:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22225 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:29:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp193.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.193]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA05947 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:33:10 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:38:53 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Daniel Worley Subject: Capitalism, Profit, and stuff Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 247 In response to my comments about profit and capitalism I received a number of replies, both privately and on Sanet. It has been interesting to read these responses and see the wide spectrum of thought on the subjects. I have been away for a couple of days and have not read all of them (I assume more are waiting for me to download). I shall look at all of them in due course. Throughout the Sustainable Agriculture movement there is a strong bias against so called "conventional agriculture" and with good reasons. I have also noted that a large number of members of the community decry the Agriculture Departments of most of the major universities, and especially the Land Grant Universities, for their position in support of conventional agriculture. Many blame this on the chemical companies and other suppliers of conventional agriculture inputs. Much of that may be true, but I suspect that at least a few of the academians truly believe in what they have been taught for the last 50 years or so and are simply repeating what they know. But for all the outcries against the academians in the agriculture departments, a large number of the members here on Sanet and other supporters of sustainable agriculture seem to have accepted without question, the policies, positions, and theories of another department at most (if not all) of those same universities. I am speaking of the Departments of Philosophy. The purveyors of the Utopian Society theories. But every one of those theories fail to take into consideration the fact that we are human; subject to human emotions and frailties. I am not going to try to go into a lot of detail explaining why these will not, cannot, work. There are plenty of texts available which can be consulted for that purpose. To me (and I have noted, a few others here on Sanet), Sustainable Agriculture means that the farmer must not only be a good shepherd of the land, but must sustain him/her self and their family. Even in the most perfectly sustainable farm, there must be outside inputs in the form of supplies that cannot be produced on the farm. I do not believe that any of you (even those living in communal farm communities) can produce every thing you need (not to mention desire) within the farm or community. You must obtain clothes, tools, transportation, and food items that you cannot produce. Things like flour, salt, and such. And in a country of over 300 million people, barter is not going to work. And even if it did, that is not socialism, but a modified form of capitalism. Nuff said. Back to Lurker Mode. --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- dan.worley@mindless.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 11:35:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01363 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:35:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA28150 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:35:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web609.yahoomail.com (web609.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.173]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28139 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:35:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990330153758.26137.rocketmail@web609.yahoomail.com> Received: from [128.11.68.177] by web609.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:37:58 PST Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:37:58 -0800 (PST) From: Kate Smith Subject: Fwd: Seed request To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: cmsmyer@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 248 Hello Saneteers, below is a request from a friend that I am forwarding as a favor. Please respond directly to her. --- CMSmyer@aol.com wrote: > From: CMSmyer@aol.com > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:25:00 EST > To: katesmith_007@yahoo.com > Subject: Seed request > > Request for Seeds to Russia > > Hello, my name is Crystal and I have a fellowship with the > W.K. Kellogg Foundation. In > just a few weeks I will be traveling with a Kellogg delegation to > Russia and Poland. > Kellogg has suggested that we each take along small gifts > that can be given to > our many hosts and contacts. Since my husband farms and I > work for ag > cooperatives, I thought it might be appropriate for me to > take along seeds for > vegetables (and flowers) that might ease the poverty and > despair felt by so > many. > > Our trip is being planed by the Center for Citizen > Initiatives, a group that > has supported several sustainable ag projects in Russia. > During our trip, we > will be meeting with the leaders of these projects, as > well as visiting > rooftop gardens and a horticulture therapy project at a > Prostheses Institute > for war invalids and children. > > I understand that a number of folks on this list serve > harvest and save seeds. > I'm wondering if any of you would like to share those > seeds, and donate them > for my trip. I appreciate your consideration, and would > be happy to answer > any questions that you might have. > > Please contact me by e-mail at cmsmyer@aol.com or by > phoning 814-674-2362 or > by mail at 662 Kepshire Road, Patton, PA 16668. > > Thanks again, > > Crystal Smithmyer > Executive Director, PA Council of Cooperatives > Fellow, Kellogg National Leadership Program > === ------------------ Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 609-234-9200 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 11:54:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01770 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:54:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA11837 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:02:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11812 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:02:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (monk-a-asy-8.rutgers.edu [165.230.176.76]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA02508 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:58:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <370120C1.7AB@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:06:41 -0800 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Economic discussion relevant to sustainable agriculture ONLY IF......... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 249 Discussions of economic systems may be useful in identifying aspects of some economic system which prevent sustainable agricultural management from ever being implemented due to short-term economic concerns. Since the laws of human beings are subject to change, whereas the laws of physics are not, this should, if pursued honestly and diligently, lead to some recommendations about appropriate changes to make to the economic system. (Note: Such recommendations tend to attract hostile fire from those who are satisfied with the economic system for reasons unrelated to sustainability.) I don't mind the discussion of economics, although more heat than light is being shed. It would be helpful if the various participants would state their assumptions. I have a framework for assumptions below, if you don't have your own, you may use it. Here are my criteria for evaluating sustainability, in order: 1. Materials Balance and Energy Balance are absolutely supreme over any and all other considerations. These CAN be controlled at the single farm level. If these balance over a one year time scale, every year, then by extension they are also in balance over time. If they are not in balance on an annual basis, one needs to account for how they are to be brought into balance over the longer time scale. 2. Maintenance of system functions such as moisture retention, decomposer food webs, good soil condition, predator populations, genetic diversity, many others. These are generally dependent upon #1, however, not all system functions can be maintained at the single farm level. Many are landscape scale (or larger) functions, and thus necessarily vulnerable to political/economic decisions made by others. (Here I contend that there is no point in even considering #3 without going through the work of the evaluation with respect to #1 and #2.) 3. "Economic sustainability," whatever that may mean, is necessarily to be made to fit FIRST into #1 and then into #2, #1 being natural laws of the universe which are not negotiable, not subject to human control, not moved by human opinion. GENERAL "WHO'S WHO" A farmer thinking about being sustainable knows very well that one must pay all the bills this year and every year (achieve economic sustainability), or next year there will be no further opportunity to be sustainable in agriculture. Those discussing sustainability in the conceptual sense tend to fall into the one of two boxes: A. The social scientist box, wherein reside the traditional economists and wannabes. They tend to use words like productivity and efficiency in ways dissociated from the physical landscape. B. The physical scientist box. They tend to use terms like "mass balance" referring to kilograms of specific matter which can be identified on the periodic table of the elements, and "energy balance," where energy has units like joules. The physical scientist pronounces invalid any "science" which fails to account for where matter/energy went after some supposed change. They use terms like productivity and efficiency in very specific ways which are very well defined in physical terms and can be audited and verified by anyone. A third box (C) is beginning to form-the field of "ecological economics." These people have recognized that economics is not real unless it recognizes the physical reality of the world, including the requirements for mass and energy balance. They are struggling to fit developed economic theory into a physical framework. Naturally their "traditional" economist colleagues are shooting at them, just to add spice to the pot. If the the participants in the discussion would kindly identify themselves as to which boxes (A,B,C) they believe they fit into and whether, or not, they accept criterion #1 above, it would save me the trouble of reading a lot of text only to discover that someone is making an argument which rests upon premises I believe to be invalid. LM To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 12:08:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02039 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:08:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07004 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:53:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06903 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:52:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00A8F406@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:51:59 -0500 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 30 Mar 99 10:51:52 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 30 Mar 99 10:51:45 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:51:37 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: objectivity in science In-reply-to: <199903282310.SAA18242@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1320C3C783C@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 250 > Folks: I would appreciate your thoughts on the definition of > "objectivity", as in "objective science-based research" or "s/he is an > objective researcher". Define, rather than describe it - if you can. I would say that in almost all cases there is just 'subjective' science and 'GROSSLY subjective' science. The latter would be the case of someone either with a personal axe to grind or political/economic incentive to find a particular result. The closest we come to an "objective researcher" is someone who doesn't really care about the results or someone who takes extra pains to fool him/herself into objectivity like through double-blind experiments. As human beings, however, we are necessarily subjective (I think Einstein had something to add to this). Mostly this is expressed at the very set-up of the experiment/research long before results are generated. But being subjective does not always preclude us from acknowledging results contrary to our wishes or anticipations (case in point, the GMO potato scientist we keep hearing so much about). So the best we can hope for are scientists with a sincere desire to not give in to their natural subjectivity and with the moral strength of character and open-mindedness to acknowledge more than one set of results. I know this is not like a dictionary definition you asked for, but it's my input, *subjective* as it may be! --Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 13:21:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03944 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:21:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA26639 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:23:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA26594 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:23:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from renskebert.iatp.org ([208.141.36.78]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.56) with SMTP id 392; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:28:49 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990330114122.008ae900@iatp.org> X-Sender: rvanstaveren@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:41:22 -0600 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Renske van Staveren" Subject: Consensus/Citizen GE Conference Websites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 251 In response to Ann's request... here are the websites for both the Canadian and the Australian Consensus Conferences. If anyone knows of any other countries reports/websites I'd be interested as well. =============================== Australia's Consensus Conference: http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/consconf/default.htm Canada has just had its first Food Biotechnology Citizen Conference March 5 - 7, 1999 at the University of Calgary, Calgary, Canada. The conference website notes that the purpose was "to bring together divergent views on food biotechnology using a public participation mechanism called the citizen conference." http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~pubconf/Citizen/conferen.html __________________________________________ Ms. Renske van Staveren, Coordinator International Forum on Food & Agriculture (IFA) c/o Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis, MN, USA 55404-2505 ph: 612-870-3423 fax: 612-870-4846 rvanstaveren@iatp.org> http://www.iffah.org __________________________________________ "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Helder Camara To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 13:32:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04167 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:32:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA05785 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:37:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from um-mail01.umsystem.edu (um-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.238.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA05770 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:37:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by um-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:37:15 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'jpike@siu.edu'" Subject: FW: Buckwheat information Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:37:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 252 I've had the following message come into the MAC office. I've sent him on to a contact I know in IL but was wondering if anyone on this list might have some additional information they could send. Please respond directly to John Pike at jpike@siu.edu Thanks, debi kelly, MAC > -----Original Message----- > > Subject: FW: Buckwheat information > > -----Original Message----- > From: john pike [mailto:jpike@siu.edu] > > Ms. Kelly, > I am looking for information and possible contacts concerning > buckwheat. > I am a grain specialist for alternative/value-added crops for a project > sponsored by the Council on Food and Agricultural Research at Southern > Illinois University. At this time my main concerns are with production > and > marketing. Any beneficial aspects of growing the crop related to insect > or > disease management or effects on the soil such as nutrient availability > would be of interest. Most of the interest in buckwheat at this time is > coming from organic or transitional producers with the hope of taking > advantage of the benefits listed above. I have not had a great deal of > luck finding documentation to back up many of these beneficial claims. In > the area of marketing, I am interested in finding buyers for buckwheat and > what specifications they have for the grain including standard grading > perameters and desired volumes. Any information or contacts you could > provide would be greatly appreciated. > > Thank you, > John > John Pike > Office of Economic and Regional Development > Southern Illinois University > Carbondale, IL 62901 > > (618) 453-3017 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 15:04:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06345 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:04:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07027 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:34:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06882 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:33:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool008-max5.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.13.158]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id H9RKRFJA; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:39:09 -0500 Message-ID: <37011837.5FD3CFCC@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:30:16 -0800 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #927 References: <199903270958.EAA01504@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 253 Announcement: The Southland Farmers' Market Association's Annual Meeting will be held Sunday April 11th from 2:30 til 5:30pm in Beverly Hills, CA. The meeting will follow the Certified Farmers' Market on the same site. Stan Crawford, Farmer and Author from Santa Fe, New Mexico is schedule to speak about farming and direct marketing, and refreshments will be available to all. Any one interested in attending should contact Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org Southland Farmers' Market Association 1308 Factory Place Box 68 Los Angeles, CA 90013 213.244.9190 x 15 213.244.9180 fax To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 16:43:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08731 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:43:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA15196 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:43:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wintermute.essex1.com (wintermute.essex1.com [206.31.1.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15185 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from lorin ([206.31.15.153]) by wintermute.essex1.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54437U8000L800S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:50:04 -0600 Message-ID: <000601be7ae5$c481e860$990f1fce@lorin> From: "Lorin Unterberger" To: Subject: Re: Complexing Mg Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:44:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 254 Hi folks I have very high Mg levels in my fields. we just transitioned to organic agriculture after 11 years in crp. Does anyone have any ideas about how to complex Mg, either with covercrops or organic soil addatives. Thanks If anyone could respond I am: Lorin Unterberger Pine Creek Organic Farm organic@essex1.com Cheers and have a rocking good spring. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 18:15:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10466 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:15:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA13759 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:25:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13673 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:25:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from cit.cornell.edu.cornell.edu ([128.253.226.178]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA29457 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:25:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990330162615.00a7a1c4@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: gwg2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) -- [Cornell Modified] Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:26:15 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Gilbert W. Gillespie Jr." Subject: Re: objectivity and university In-Reply-To: <1E89427684@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 255 In responding to Ann Clarke's request (in her posting of 3/28/1999 EST) for a definition of objectivity, I generally support the perspective expressed by Anita Graf in her posting on this topic. One can be even more charitable to scientists and assume the highest motivation to conduct "objective" research and still arrive at the same conclusion. The reasons for this are many and complex, but let me summarize a couple of main points. First, to have objectivity in the way in which it is usually described would require a condition in which "things" of the biophysical and social worlds made highly uniform and consistent impressions on their human viewers (the doctrine of realism) independent of socially shared knowledge and beliefs. To my knowledge, this has not been demonstrated. Therefore, the best that we might hope for is "detachment", basically what Ms. Graf describes as scientists doing their very best to recognize and account for their subjectivity. Second, even if something approaching objectivity were possible, the world is complex and human subjective choice is inherent in research activities. The possessors of resources for research often structure their RFPs and select researchers based on prospects of gaining something (co-production of scientific knowledge). Researchers themselves tend to have goals for what they do, so certain topics get studied and others ignored. None of this is intended to disparage science and the people who practice it. Science is actually quite marvelous for advancing knowledge compared to some of the alternatives. At the same time, science is based on humans' experience of certain aspects of the past, so cannot be an infallible guide to the future (like driving a windshield-less vehicle using observations from a rear-view mirror). The proper role(s) of universities (particularly those supported by public funds) is another difficult issue on which many different perspectives come to bear. I suspect that most people would include some notion of "public good" in their prescriptions, but I also suspect that this would not lead to consensus in assessing the condition of contemporary universities. My own particular perspective is that publically supported universities should be doing at least three things: (1) Educating (rather than merely training) citizens to be aware of issues of importance to our society and others, understand the different positions on these issues, think analytically about the implications of perspectives, and be able to work toward resolving these issues nonviolently. (2) Doing research and extension on topics that are outside the realm of proprietary commercial interest, e.g., sustainable agriculture practices that involve technologies that can easily be appropriated by any producer. (3) Research and extension on the social and biophysical environmental impacts of actions of governments, businesses, and private citizens to inform citizens and decision-makers about the consequences of these actions, including benefits, risks, and costs. These are all activities that private commercial entitities would likely lack interest in funding. Gil **************************************************************** Gil Gillespie voice: 607-255-1675 Department of Rural Sociology & fax: 607-254-2896 Division of Nutritional Sciences e-mail: gwg2@cornell.edu Warren Hall Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853-7801 USA "Whereas most sociologists are as dull as turnips, many interactionists were/are fun." Carl J. Couch, 1997, Symbolic Interaction 20(2):102 ***************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 18:31:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10738 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11006 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:11:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10958 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp241.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.241]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA00325 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:14:33 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:06:27 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: correction to GEN3-28; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 256 [Reposted with permission] Dr. Peter Wills informed me that there was a small mistake in the transcript of his talk that I just sent out. Here is the corrected version (The phrase "the last quarter decade" was corrected to read "the last quarter century") Richard ............ Brief Address to Wellington Forum on Genetically Modified Food by Peter R Wills, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Physics, University of Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand 25 March 1999 Organisms are dynamic. In fact everything that happens in biology is based on endless orderly change, especially the flow of matter. The natural patterns and regularities that we observe in biology depend on the maintenance of processes of change. This applies from the microscopic level of the cell - a teeming zoo of molecular motion - all the way up to the biosphere - with its rich and variegated spatially-differentiated ecologies. How all of this works cannot be understood solely in terms of material structure, whether we are talking about the proteins and DNA molecules in a cell, or the individual organisms existing in an ecosystem. The effects of a gene cannot be assessed by looking at the static relationship between its sequence, the letters of the DNA message it represents, and the characteristics of the organism to which it is related. The meaning of a gene is determined by the context in which it is expressed. It also contributes to that context. So, when we swap a gene from one organism to another, we cannot know in advance what all the effects will be. We cannot know, not even in principle. That is very important because ecological relationships and evolutionary change rely on what is unusual, the innovation which arises as a result of mutation or the establishment of new interactions. The way this works is that events propagate through biological systems. The variation created by genetic mutation and recombination is the most elementary and fundamental way in which things propagate in biological systems. Three and a half billion years of evolution have given rise to only a very few means of genetic information transfer and propagation. These limitations have produced what we now call the tree of life. The maintenance of boundaries between constellations of particular genes in particular organisms is what keeps species and their interactions in the relationships that constitute dynamic eco-systems. Over the last few 10,000 years, intentional human actions, selective breeding programs of ever- increasing sophistication, have coerced desired changes from the game of roulette that reproduction plays with genes. But the basic rules of the game have not, and could not by such means, be altered. In the last quarter century, as a result of what we have learnt in molecular biology, we have started to break all of these rules. No we make genetic transfers at will. It is now routine to effect changes which could never be coerced out of the billion-year-old processes which govern ecological interactions and evolutionary change. The type, speed and scale of genetic change now being undertaken will affect the dynamics of biological systems, ecology and evolution, at their very basis. Changes that cannot be assessed in advance will progressively propagate through the biosphere. The pattern of those changes cannot be expected to fit in with what we already know. The changes we are making will propagate with their own novel dynamics and the outcomes will be far- reaching. The only thing we can know with certainty is that we do not know, and cannot in principle know, what the character of the ultimate outcome will be, except that it will be different from anything that we are familiar with. Using an analogy to stereotypical gender relationships, an analogy that I think is fully justified here : Mankind will be left trying to beat Nature at her own game, playing according to rules that have been imposed with the express aim of exercising unprecedented power over her. She will wait, and when she speaks back in the new language which has been created for her, Mankind will have already lost what would have been of the greatest value. .......... _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 19:14:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA12624 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:14:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA10979 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:11:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10944 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:11:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp241.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.241]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA00310 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:14:30 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:59:10 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-28; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 257 [Reposted with permission] Brief Address to Wellington Forum on Genetically Modified Food by Peter R Wills, Ph.D., Associate Professor, Department of Physics, University of Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand 25 March 1999 Organisms are dynamic. In fact everything that happens in biology is based on endless orderly change, especially the flow of matter. The natural patterns and regularities that we observe in biology depend on the maintenance of processes of change. This applies from the microscopic level of the cell - a teeming zoo of molecular motion - all the way up to the biosphere - with its rich and variegated spatially-differentiated ecologies. How all of this works cannot be understood solely in terms of material structure, whether we are talking about the proteins and DNA molecules in a cell, or the individual organisms existing in an ecosystem. The effects of a gene cannot be assessed by looking at the static relationship between its sequence, the letters of the DNA message it represents, and the characteristics of the organism to which it is related. The meaning of a gene is determined by the context in which it is expressed. It also contributes to that context. So, when we swap a gene from one organism to another, we cannot know in advance what all the effects will be. We cannot know, not even in principle. That is very important because ecological relationships and evolutionary change rely on what is unusual, the innovation which arises as a result of mutation or the establishment of new interactions. The way this works is that events propagate through biological systems. The variation created by genetic mutation and recombination is the most elementary and fundamental way in which things propagate in biological systems. Three and a half billion years of evolution have given rise to only a very few means of genetic information transfer and propagation. These limitations have produced what we now call the tree of life. The maintenance of boundaries between constellations of particular genes in particular organisms is what keeps species and their interactions in the relationships that constitute dynamic eco-systems. Over the last few 10,000 years, intentional human actions, selective breeding programs of ever- increasing sophistication, have coerced desired changes from the game of roulette that reproduction plays with genes. But the basic rules of the game have not, and could not by such means, be altered. In the last quarter decade, as a result of what we have learnt in molecular biology, we have started to break all of these rules. No we make genetic transfers at will. It is now routine to effect changes which could never be coerced out of the billion-year-old processes which govern ecological interactions and evolutionary change. The type, speed and scale of genetic change now being undertaken will affect the dynamics of biological systems, ecology and evolution, at their very basis. Changes that cannot be assessed in advance will progressively propagate through the biosphere. The pattern of those changes cannot be expected to fit in with what we already know. The changes we are making will propagate with their own novel dynamics and the outcomes will be far- reaching. The only thing we can know with certainty is that we do not know, and cannot in principle know, what the character of the ultimate outcome will be, except that it will be different from anything that we are familiar with. Using an analogy to stereotypical gender relationships, an analogy that I think is fully justified here : Mankind will be left trying to beat Nature at her own game, playing according to rules that have been imposed with the express aim of exercising unprecedented power over her. She will wait, and when she speaks back in the new language which has been created for her, Mankind will have already lost what would have been of the greatest value. .......... CORPORATE POWER SILENCES RBGH CRITICS, PANEL SAYS The Capital Times Washington March 25, 1999 Last week, the European Union stated that milk from rBGH-treated cows could increase the risk of breast and prostate cancer in humans. Canada, Japan and Australia have banned the genetically engineered dairy hormone, citing concerns about its effects on animals and humans. Yet farmers in the United States are injecting rBGH into dairy cows from coast to coast. "What is it they know in Canada, Europe, Australia and Japan that we don't?" journalist Steve Wilson asked a University of Wisconsin audience Wednesday. Plenty, according to Wilson, who maintains that a combination of forces is keeping the U.S. press silent on a critical food safety issue. Wilson and Jane Akre, two veteran investigative television reporters, discussed the rBGH controversy during this week's UW- Madison Democracy Teach-In. They were joined by John Stauber of Madison-based PR Watch. Wilson and Akre were fired by Fox News in Tampa, Fla., after producing a four-part series about the potential risks of rBGH milk. The television station maintains that the husband-wife team were dismissed for being "difficult to work with." But Wilson and Akre say the reason was their story, which was critical of the hormone and drew the ire of its manufacturer, biotech giant [ Monsanto Co. ] "In February of 1997, right before the story was set to run, the letters (from Monsanto) started coming, saying the story was all wrong and predicting dire consequences if we ran it," Akre said. Several months later, she said, the story was shelved and she and Wilson were out of work. Stauber, who studies the influence of corporations and public relations professionals, said such situations are all too typical. The reasons, he said, have much to do with three major forces in America: *The media. Corporate ownership of major news outlets, concern about angry advertisers and falling standards are causing many journalists to turn away from investigative reporting and toward easier, more simplistic work, he said. When reporters like Wilson and Akre take the initiative, he said, they are often thwarted by their superiors. That silence allows corporations to "spin" their products unchallenged. "The fact the U.S. media haven't paid attention to rBGH has allowed the controversy to drop off the front page," he said. *Corporations. With savvy public relations campaigns and deep pockets, corporations like Monsanto have become adept at creating a positive image of products like rBGH even as they silence critics, Stauber said. Such companies also tend to have friends in high places, he contended. *Public opinion. More than any other population, Americans believe deeply in the benefits of scientific progress, Stauber said, a belief that leads many to view critics with suspicion. "There's almost a patriotic lock step that has developed to the idea that technology is going to be beneficial," he said. But rBGH could still receive the attention they feel it deserves, the panelists agreed. In December, a U.S. consumer group called on the FDA to pull bovine growth hormone off the market, charging the agency overlooked key evidence about the drug's safety. (The agency had 180 days to conduct the investigation and either reject the claim or pull the drug.) Continued opposition in Canada and Europe, backed by research into the hormone that has been difficult to obtain here, is beginning to gain attention in the United States. And Wilson and Akre, who are suing Fox for allegedly firing them under pressure from Monsanto, are traveling around the United States to raise public awareness of the hormone's potential downside. More attention can only work to the benefit of American consumers, Stauber said. "I think Americans are extremely interested," he said. (Copyright (c) Madison Newspapers, Inc. 1999) _____via IntellX_____ ............. Here is a quote from Professor R B Elliot , one of New Zealand's most accomplished medical researchers. Re: GE foods I have decided on my personal stance. I do NOT want to eat such foods -- I see no health or economic advantage in doing so, and a whole raft of putative health and environmental disadvantages. Any 'advantage' in GE foods as far as I can see is to one or more of the grower of the crop, the GE source company, the Roundup manufacturer etc. I cannot imagine for a moment that GE food will even be cheaper for me -- or anyone. If Burger King can guarantee that their product contains no GE components -- then I will eat their stuff rather than McDonalds etc. I have discussed this with my staff -- who agree that the risk /benefit ratio is infinitely high as however small the personal risk, there is no personal benefit. Posted by Dr Robt Mann, science chairman, Physicians & Scientists For Responsible Genetics, New Zealand _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 21:13:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14388 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:13:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06556 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:56:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA06504 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:56:36 -0500 (EST) From: holocene@juno.com Received: (from holocene@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D6ZAME28; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:55:03 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:10:47 -0800 Subject: Aug. Sustainable Design Workshop Message-ID: <19990330.151053.3790.4.holocene@juno.com> References: <199903262019.PAA05167@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-36 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 258 Dear Sanet list, This workshop may be of interest, in particular for those who work in design and information. The workshop will look at Urban Agriculture, and although the main focus is on urban areas and business solutions, the principles of sustainability and of applying them (and permaculture) in design are equally applicable to sustainable agriculture. Please feel free to forward. best wishes, Joanne Tippett *** SuNstainable Pathways Design *** learning skills for sustainable development *** Intensive Workshop, in Berkeley, California, August 16-21, 1999 Would you like to know how to apply sustainable principles in practice? Are you looking for a way to design innovative solutions in businesses, organizations, land use and development? Would you like to learn how to enhance strategic planning and productive stakeholder dialogue? This interactive workshop focuses on the practical application of sustainability principles. A week long exercise will lead you through the process of integrating The Natural Step model, Permaculture design tools and creative thinking techniques in the design of positive solutions. for more information, see http://www.holocene.net/workshop/pathwaysworkshop.htm contact Joanne Tippett email@holocene.net ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 22:42:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15723 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:42:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA25313 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:51:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA25247 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:51:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA14915 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:51:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA25279; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:50:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199903310250.UAA25279@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: CIAS.staff@aae.wisc.edu Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:50:48 -0500 Subject: Mailissa/Melissa virus/worm CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, mister3d@pbi.net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 259 Howdy, all-- I trust that many of you know more about this than I do, since I was gone from Friday a.m. thru Monday afternoon. You probably already know about the outbreak of a computer virus or worm called Melissa or Mailissa, which appeared over the weekend and infected many machines very quickly. But in case you haven't heard about it, don't panic, millennial jitters notwithstanding. And read this handy CNN Tech sheet. http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9903/29/melissa.02.idg/ There are links at the bottom to other stories. The short version of the above: FOR THE LOVE OF LEFSE HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU BUT DON'T OPEN THOSE GAD-BLAMED MS-WORD ATTACHMENTS TO E-MAIL. PERIOD. :^) Some of you have asked me often for recommendations for anti-virus software. This is as good a list, with links, as I've seen anywhere: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9902/09/topantivirus.idg/index.html I personally run Command Anti-Virus (by F-PROT), which I don't like as well as McAfee, but Command is what our AAE network makes available, so Command is what we use. peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 22:46:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15798 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:46:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA29184 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:54:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA29119 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:54:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA14991 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 21:54:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA25333; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:54:48 -0600 Message-Id: <199903310254.UAA25333@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: CIAS.staff@aae.wisc.edu, sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, mister3d@pbi.net Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:54:37 -0500 Subject: Melissa copycat virus X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 260 Howdy, all-- No sooner do I press and another item comes across the wires. A new virus, dubbed Papa, was discovered yesterday, that is transmitted via Excel .xls files. See CNN's tech sheet: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9903/29/melissa.copycat.idg/ peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 23:17:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16276 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:17:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA15691 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15573 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08631; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:24:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:24:16 -0800 (PST) From: Eliza Lindsay To: Ann Ellis cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: organic greenhouse production In-Reply-To: <19990330115046.22752.qmail@ww181.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 261 I've heard of a greenhouse list out there somewheres...that might be a good place to post. Maybe someone else has info about that list or check out some of the urls which house lists of mailing lists (I don't have those urls on file otherwise I'd give them to you.) good luck, eliza To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 23:17:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16285 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:17:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA15521 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15479 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from iglou.com (sendmail@shell1.iglou.com [192.107.41.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15405 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.255.236.30] (helo=ripley.iglou.com) by iglou.com with smtp (8.9.1/8.9.1) id 10SBbr-0000Js-00; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:08 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990331032202.0073afb4@iglou.com> X-Sender: ripley@iglou.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:22:02 -0500 To: ripley@iglou.com From: "Dawn M. Ripley" Subject: Mailissa/Melissa virus/worm Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, mister3d@pbi.net Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 262 Howdy, all-- I trust that many of you know more about this than I do, since I was gone from Friday a.m. thru Monday afternoon. You probably already know about the outbreak of a computer virus or worm called Melissa or Mailissa, which appeared over the weekend and infected many machines very quickly. But in case you haven't heard about it, don't panic, millennial jitters notwithstanding. And read this handy CNN Tech sheet. http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9903/29/melissa.02.idg/ There are links at the bottom to other stories. The short version of the above: FOR THE LOVE OF LEFSE HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU BUT DON'T OPEN THOSE GAD-BLAMED MS-WORD ATTACHMENTS TO E-MAIL. PERIOD. :^) Some of you have asked me often for recommendations for anti-virus software. This is as good a list, with links, as I've seen anywhere: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9902/09/topantivirus.idg/index.html I personally run Command Anti-Virus (by F-PROT), which I don't like as well as McAfee, but Command is what our AAE network makes available, so Command is what we use. peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -------------------------------- Dawn M. Ripley County Extension Agent for Urban Programs (502) 425-4482 Jefferson County Cooperative Extension Service (502) 425-0109 (fax) 8012 Vinecrest Avenue, Suite 1 ripley@iglou.com (home) Louisville, Kentucky 40222-4690 dripley@ca.uky.edu (work) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 23:19:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16290 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:19:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA15637 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emerald.tufts.edu (pmdf@emerald.tufts.edu [130.64.1.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15577 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by emerald.tufts.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #U3521) with SMTP id <0F9F00B01W4LBT@emerald.tufts.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:24:21 -0500 (EST) From: Hugh Joseph Subject: Re: objectivity and university In-reply-to: <3.0.3.32.19990330162615.00a7a1c4@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> To: "Gilbert W. Gillespie Jr." Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: X-Envelope-to: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 263 There is an interesting lead piece in the March 22nd issue of The Nation by David Shank titled "Money+Science=Ethics Problems on Campus". It describes how extensively business interests have infiltrated the university research process. Quite pertinent to this discussion. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 08:48:38 1999 -0500 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25826; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:48:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13951 for smallfarm-jarude; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:37:39 GMT Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:37:39 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199903301237.MAA13951@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 264 TIME TO ACT CAMPAIGN Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Many of you may have heard about the USDA National Commission on Small Farms report, entitled, A Time to Act, A Report of the National Commission on Small Farms, that was issued to Secretary Glickman last year. This report contained 146 recommendations for USDA to change its policies and programs to more directly assist small, family-sized farms. Emphasis was placed on sustainable agriculture, civil rights, direct marketing, enforcement of anti-trust laws, beginning farmers and farmworker issues. In an effort to promote and advocate for the implementation of these recommendations, the Time to Act Campaign was organized with funding support from the Kellogg and Ford Foundations and is sponsored by the Center for Rural Affairs. The Time to Act Campaign consists of most of the members of the Commission acting independent of the Commission. Staff support is provided by Barbara Meister, a policy consultant, and Chuck Hassebrook of the Center for Rural Affairs. To find out more about the Time to Act Campaign, our activities and how to get involved, please see our website which is housed at www.cfra.org or go directly to http://www.cfra.org/tta/tta_home_page.htm We recently released a 'Report Card' grading USDA's progress to date in implementing the Commission's recommendations (see website). And our latest project....the Time to Act for Family Farms! video is ready for renting and showing at your next meeting. See below for details. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Barbara Meister (meisterb@ix.netcom.com) Time to Act for Family Farms! A Report of the USDA National Commission on Small Farms Learn how government policies affect opportunities of our nation's farmers, the quality of our environment, and the health of our communities. Find out how you can make a difference by renting the video, Time to Act for Family Farms! Time to Act for Family Farms! is a 26-minute video featuring the value of small farms to our economy, environment and community life the challenges facing small farmers, their families and rural communities and the policy choices at stake. In January 1998, the USDA National Commission on Small Farms released their report A Time to Act, to Secretary Glickman. The Commission made a compelling case for the value of small farms to our nation's economic stability, environmental protection and social fabric. A Time to Act includes a comprehensive plan for changes in the U.S. Department of Agriculture's policies to enable greater economic opportunity for small farmers nationwide. The Time to Act for Family Farms video illustrates the challenges faced by small farmers through the stories of a Black farmer in Georgia working to organize a vegetable marketing cooperative; --- hog farmers and their rural neighbors in Minnesota fighting for access to fair markets and pursuing low-cost and environmentally sound methods for raising hogs; --- and a diversified organic farming family in California marketing directly to urban consumers. See how government policies affect the opportunities of these farmers and others like them. Find out more about the policy choices before Secretary Glickman and our elected representatives and how you can participate in the Time to Act Campaign. The video is available for use at organizational meetings, workshops or events. You can also request materials from which to make copies to handout to viewers. To rent a copy of the Time to Act for Family Farms video, mail this request form and $5.00 for postage and handling to the Center for Rural Affairs at PO Box 406 Walthill, NE 68067. Please tell us how you plan to use the video and the date of your meeting or event. ________________________________________________________________________ Yes, I'd like to rent a copy of Time to Act for Family Farms video. Name Mailing Address: Ph: Fax: E-mail: Please describe meeting or event where video will be shown and audience size: Would you like materials to handout? ___ Yes ___ No Please Note: You are expected to return the video within 5 days after rental, and are responsible for the postage and handling costs of $5.00. Payment must accompany order. ----- Barbara Meister 148 Cypress Park Santa Cruz, CA 95060 ph: 408-421-9727 fax: 408-421-9728 e-mail: meisterb@ix.netcom.com -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 16:14:49 1999 -0500 Received: from fddinewz.oit.unc.edu (fddinewz.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.74]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08227 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:14:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by fddinewz.oit.unc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA16752 for sustag@sunsite.unc.edu; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:07:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu: news set sender to london@sunsite.unc.edu using -f Received: from GATEWAY by news.oit.unc.edu with netnews for sustag@sunsite.unc.edu (sustag@sunsite.unc.edu) To: sustag@metalab.unc.edu Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:28:23 GMT From: post-o-matic@rafi.org Message-ID: <7drc4r$4o0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Organization: Rural Advancement Foundation International - RAFI Sender: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: RAFI: Traitor Tech: 'Damaged Goods' from the Gene Giants Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 265 Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) News Release 29 March 1999 ** TRAITOR TECHNOLOGY: "Damaged Goods" from the Gene Giants ** --------------------------------------------------------- New report from RAFI details over 2 dozen "Terminator II" patents that link suicide seeds to proprietary chemicals, genetically-weakened plants, and the patented power to make genetically-inviable plants rise from the dead. --------------------------------------------------------- Beyond the prognostications of even its most pessimistic critics, Terminator science is snowballing into the corporate profit centre of the next decade and beyond. And, if the major seed and agrochemical multinationals have their way, Terminator and Traitor (negative trait) technologies will come on the heels of the new millennium to a farm near you. RAFI's Executive Director Pat Mooney declares, "With this report and our previous work on the Terminator, RAFI is sounding the alarm that without government action, these technologies will be commercialized within a few years with potentially disastrous consequences." Says RAFI Programme Officer Edward Hammond, "Since we discovered the original Terminator patent a year ago, even at our most pessimistic we never forecast negative trait genetic engineering to explode as quickly as it has." Most observers thought there would be a delay of two or three years before second and third generation Terminator refinements were patented; but instead says Hammond, "a survey of patent offices reveals that the cat is completely out of the bag. In fact, the original Terminator may be a dead letter because enhanced Terminator seeds are already in the laboratory." RAFI reports that every Gene Giant multinational has patented, or admits it is working on genetically-sterilized or chemically-dependent seeds. RAFI's report provides details and analysis on over two dozen such patents recently obtained by 12 institutions. The patents seek to exploit - or could exploit - new genetic engineering techniques that use inducible promoters to disable critical plant functions governing reproduction, disease resistance, and seed viability. If commercialization of such seeds proceeds, farmers worldwide will be tangled in an expensive web of chemicals, intellectual property, and disabled germplasm that leads to bioserfdom. The technology spells disaster for farmers and global food security because over three quarters of the world's farmers - mainly poor farmers - depend on farm saved seed. The complete removal of farmers from the age-old process of plant breeding through sterilized seed could also signify a disastrous narrowing of the genepool on which everyone depends for food security. SCARY SCOPE: According to RAFI's Research Director Hope Shand, "The patents describe the use of external chemicals to turn on and off genetic traits in plants and go well beyond DeltaPine's original 'Terminator' patent. They are techniques to control a wide variety of input and output (production and processing) traits by spraying with proprietary herbicides or fertilizers. Others take us beyond crop plants to the use of Terminator-style tactics on insects and even possibly mammals." KILLER GENES, JUNKIE SEEDS, AND MODERN-DAY "MIRACLES": Some patents aim to switch the plants germination on or off. AstraZenecas Verminator patents use what it calls killer genes for this purpose. Yet AstraZeneca has been telling governments, scientists, and the press that despite their continuing pursuit of its patents around the world, they wont stop farmers from saving seed. RAFI's Pat Mooney says, "Something didn't add up, so we set out to investigate." Newly discovered patent claims explain the confusing AstraZeneca position. The new patents refine AstraZeneca's "Verminator" technology that links plant growth and germination to repeated application of proprietary chemicals. Without specific patented chemicals, the plant doesn't grow. "Essentially," says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "they're talking about the manufacture of junkie plants that are physically dependent on a patented chemical cocktail." AstraZeneca says it will patent the technology in 77 countries. Says RAFI's Mooney, "So, you see AstraZeneca and the other Gene Giants dont want farmers to buy new seed every year so much as to force them to repurchase their old seed." Monsanto is already pioneering such 'pay by the generation' techniques through legal means - the infamous grower agreements - in the US and Canada; but research is steering toward biological means of achieving the same sad end. Mooney says "It will be vastly more profitable for multinationals to sell seeds programmed to commit suicide at harvest so that farmers must pay the company to obtain the chemicals to have them re-activated for the next planting either through a seed conditioning process or through the purchase of a specialized chemicals that bring saved seed back to life, Lazarus-style." "In effect, this shifts all the seed costs to farmers, and the companies wont have to multiply, ship, and warehouse massive seed stocks," Hammond adds, "As the seed oligopoly strengthens, companies will have less and less incentive to invest in plant breeding research, after all they'll already have the farmers in a position of utter dependency." Pat Mooney agrees, "With these 'Lazarus-link seeds' the advertising investment will continue but the research investment will wither away." GENETIC MUTILATION: An especially disturbing feature of some of the new patents profiled in RAFI's report is the deliberate disabling of natural plant functions that help to fight disease. Swiss biotech giant Novartis is most advanced in this aspect of Traitor technology. Novartis blandly refers to it as "inactivation of endogenous regulation" so that "genes which are natively regulated can be regulated exclusively by the application to the plant of a chemical regulator." Among the genes which Novartis can control in this manner are patented SAR (systemic acquired resistance) genes which are critical to plant's ability to fight off infections from many viruses and bacteria. Thus, Novartis has patented techniques to create plants with natural healthy functions turned off. "The only way to turn them back on and fix these 'damaged goods' " says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "is, well, you guessed it, the application of a propietary chemical." TIGHT-LIPPED MONSANTO: Caught like a deer in the headlights during recent battles over genetically-modified plants - especially in Europe - Monsanto has sought to deflect questions and criticism about Terminator technology by saying that the Terminator belongs to its soon-to-be subsidiary Delta and Pine Land Company. As such, the oft-repeated PR position goes, Monsanto doesn't yet have access to the Terminator and can't inform concerned governments and people about plans for Terminator seed. "It's been their mantra across the world." says RAFI's Mooney, "We've heard the same confusing statements from Monsanto representatives in New Zealand, India, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Brazil, the EU, and the US." Even last week, at a Harvard University presentation, Monsanto's representative similarly shrugged off the question. "In fact," says RAFI's Mooney, "it's a deliberate ploy - or, at best, incomplete information - that obfuscates facts about the company's own research agenda. Monsanto already has its own in-house, patented Terminator technology, which it says it will patent in a whopping 89 countries. Obviously, the company is not being forthright. If Monsanto doesn't start coming clean, it risks further damage to its already tarnished image." WILL TERMINATOR WORK? RAFI notes that some plant scientists are skeptical that Traitor Technology will work successfully in the field. Monsanto, one of the original Traitor Tech proponents, is encouraging this view. There is no doubt that Traitor Tech will be continually refined as it moves toward the market; but terminator plants are already in the greenhouse and profit estimates are being calculated. "It's only a matter of time. Every major pesticide-producing Gene Giant is hard at work perfecting the technology." Shand adds, "Companies don't patent for the fun of the paperwork and paying lawyer's fees. Those who think corporations will drop the Terminator or think it wont make it to market - are living in Fantasyland. Theres too much money to be made. Unless it is banned by governments, Terminator is going to happen, and probably sooner rather than later." WILL FARMERS BUY IT? Delta & Pine Land and Monsanto insist that no one will force farmers to buy Terminator seed. The real question is, will farmers have a choice? The commercial seed industry is imploding, and a handful of Gene Giants already control a rapidly expanding share of major seed markets. After DuPont announced earlier this month that it would buy Pioneer Hi-Bred, the world's largest seed company, the Wall Street Journal concluded that the deal "effectively divides" most of the US seed industry between DuPont and Monsanto. With the disappearance of public sector plant breeders, farmers are becoming increasingly vulnerable and have fewer choices in the marketplace. TERMINATING THE TERMINATOR: RAFI and its partners around the world are contacting governments asking them to declare all of the Terminator-style patent claims as contrary to ordre public. In January, Global Response (a US based non-profit organization) encouraged its 4,000 members in forty countries to write to the Director-General of FAO asking him to oppose the Terminator as a matter of world food security. FAO has replied that governments may take up the issue in Rome April 19 to 23 during the meeting of the FAO Commission on Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture. RAFI will be at that meeting and will make a presentation to governments. Further, concerned individuals from 71 countries have sent almost 7,000 letters to US Agriculture Secretary Glickman asking him to ban the Terminator. Although global opposition is mounting, RAFI worries that the UNs Biodiversity Convention may go "soft" on the environmental and social implications of the technology. When the Convention meets in Montreal in June, it is to receive a scientific study on Terminator. "We will read and respond to that study very quickly," Pat Mooney advises. ------ -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Mar 30 23:29:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16564 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 23:29:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA24009 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:36:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from q7.q7.com (eliza@q7.q7.com [206.58.126.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA23996 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 22:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (eliza@localhost) by q7.q7.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08812 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:35:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:35:59 -0800 (PST) From: Eliza Lindsay To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: objectivity and university In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 266 Well, this is a huge topic in the philosophy of science and in lots of other disciplines (such as science and technology study programs.) I have done a lot of reading and thought on the topic but don't have any biblios lieing around to hand you. If you find the topic interesting: A very accessible book with a large bibliography which is coming to my mind at the moment is "Whose Science? Whose Knowledge?" (Don't read it if you don't like feminist perspectives.) But, I must tell you the field on this topic is immense, truly staggering, especially as you branch out. Indeed, much of Stephen Jay's Gould's "popular" books can be seen as discussion of some of these issues, esp. e.g. "The Mismeasure of Man". Always the oddball what I think is perhaps not popular amongst many folks: I believe that the facts do not come to us "brute" or "bare"...Rather facts are theory-laden and theories (bodies of knowledge) are value-laden and therefore the facts themselves are also value-laden. At the same time, I am quite a realist...just so you know. (A bit of philosophical jargon is used in this sentence, i.e., the terms carry a lot of connotations that may not be immediately apparent, but I am too lazy to spell things out.) Good science is science infused with good values. That is, there isn't biasless science/knowledge nor are there biasless seekers of knowledge/scientists. Rather, there are knowledges and knowledge seekers with good biases. Now of course, what's "good" is a whole other question. I know someone's going to say, explain yourself. But, I doubt I'll want to say much more. This topic went round and round my brain for several years and I am taking a breather from it. I've set it down for awhile. Really read some of the massive literature out there... If you like it try reading Kant... Cheers, :-) eliza To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 08:48:38 1999 -0500 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25826; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:48:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13951 for smallfarm-jarude; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:37:39 GMT Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:37:39 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199903301237.MAA13951@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 267 TIME TO ACT CAMPAIGN Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Many of you may have heard about the USDA National Commission on Small Farms report, entitled, A Time to Act, A Report of the National Commission on Small Farms, that was issued to Secretary Glickman last year. This report contained 146 recommendations for USDA to change its policies and programs to more directly assist small, family-sized farms. Emphasis was placed on sustainable agriculture, civil rights, direct marketing, enforcement of anti-trust laws, beginning farmers and farmworker issues. In an effort to promote and advocate for the implementation of these recommendations, the Time to Act Campaign was organized with funding support from the Kellogg and Ford Foundations and is sponsored by the Center for Rural Affairs. The Time to Act Campaign consists of most of the members of the Commission acting independent of the Commission. Staff support is provided by Barbara Meister, a policy consultant, and Chuck Hassebrook of the Center for Rural Affairs. To find out more about the Time to Act Campaign, our activities and how to get involved, please see our website which is housed at www.cfra.org or go directly to http://www.cfra.org/tta/tta_home_page.htm We recently released a 'Report Card' grading USDA's progress to date in implementing the Commission's recommendations (see website). And our latest project....the Time to Act for Family Farms! video is ready for renting and showing at your next meeting. See below for details. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Barbara Meister (meisterb@ix.netcom.com) Time to Act for Family Farms! A Report of the USDA National Commission on Small Farms Learn how government policies affect opportunities of our nation's farmers, the quality of our environment, and the health of our communities. Find out how you can make a difference by renting the video, Time to Act for Family Farms! Time to Act for Family Farms! is a 26-minute video featuring the value of small farms to our economy, environment and community life the challenges facing small farmers, their families and rural communities and the policy choices at stake. In January 1998, the USDA National Commission on Small Farms released their report A Time to Act, to Secretary Glickman. The Commission made a compelling case for the value of small farms to our nation's economic stability, environmental protection and social fabric. A Time to Act includes a comprehensive plan for changes in the U.S. Department of Agriculture's policies to enable greater economic opportunity for small farmers nationwide. The Time to Act for Family Farms video illustrates the challenges faced by small farmers through the stories of a Black farmer in Georgia working to organize a vegetable marketing cooperative; --- hog farmers and their rural neighbors in Minnesota fighting for access to fair markets and pursuing low-cost and environmentally sound methods for raising hogs; --- and a diversified organic farming family in California marketing directly to urban consumers. See how government policies affect the opportunities of these farmers and others like them. Find out more about the policy choices before Secretary Glickman and our elected representatives and how you can participate in the Time to Act Campaign. The video is available for use at organizational meetings, workshops or events. You can also request materials from which to make copies to handout to viewers. To rent a copy of the Time to Act for Family Farms video, mail this request form and $5.00 for postage and handling to the Center for Rural Affairs at PO Box 406 Walthill, NE 68067. Please tell us how you plan to use the video and the date of your meeting or event. ________________________________________________________________________ Yes, I'd like to rent a copy of Time to Act for Family Farms video. Name Mailing Address: Ph: Fax: E-mail: Please describe meeting or event where video will be shown and audience size: Would you like materials to handout? ___ Yes ___ No Please Note: You are expected to return the video within 5 days after rental, and are responsible for the postage and handling costs of $5.00. Payment must accompany order. ----- Barbara Meister 148 Cypress Park Santa Cruz, CA 95060 ph: 408-421-9727 fax: 408-421-9728 e-mail: meisterb@ix.netcom.com -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Mar 30 16:14:49 1999 -0500 Received: from fddinewz.oit.unc.edu (fddinewz.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.74]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08227 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:14:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by fddinewz.oit.unc.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA16752 for sustag@sunsite.unc.edu; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:07:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu: news set sender to london@sunsite.unc.edu using -f Received: from GATEWAY by news.oit.unc.edu with netnews for sustag@sunsite.unc.edu (sustag@sunsite.unc.edu) To: sustag@metalab.unc.edu Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:28:23 GMT From: post-o-matic@rafi.org Message-ID: <7drc4r$4o0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Organization: Rural Advancement Foundation International - RAFI Sender: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: RAFI: Traitor Tech: 'Damaged Goods' from the Gene Giants Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 268 Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) News Release 29 March 1999 ** TRAITOR TECHNOLOGY: "Damaged Goods" from the Gene Giants ** --------------------------------------------------------- New report from RAFI details over 2 dozen "Terminator II" patents that link suicide seeds to proprietary chemicals, genetically-weakened plants, and the patented power to make genetically-inviable plants rise from the dead. --------------------------------------------------------- Beyond the prognostications of even its most pessimistic critics, Terminator science is snowballing into the corporate profit centre of the next decade and beyond. And, if the major seed and agrochemical multinationals have their way, Terminator and Traitor (negative trait) technologies will come on the heels of the new millennium to a farm near you. RAFI's Executive Director Pat Mooney declares, "With this report and our previous work on the Terminator, RAFI is sounding the alarm that without government action, these technologies will be commercialized within a few years with potentially disastrous consequences." Says RAFI Programme Officer Edward Hammond, "Since we discovered the original Terminator patent a year ago, even at our most pessimistic we never forecast negative trait genetic engineering to explode as quickly as it has." Most observers thought there would be a delay of two or three years before second and third generation Terminator refinements were patented; but instead says Hammond, "a survey of patent offices reveals that the cat is completely out of the bag. In fact, the original Terminator may be a dead letter because enhanced Terminator seeds are already in the laboratory." RAFI reports that every Gene Giant multinational has patented, or admits it is working on genetically-sterilized or chemically-dependent seeds. RAFI's report provides details and analysis on over two dozen such patents recently obtained by 12 institutions. The patents seek to exploit - or could exploit - new genetic engineering techniques that use inducible promoters to disable critical plant functions governing reproduction, disease resistance, and seed viability. If commercialization of such seeds proceeds, farmers worldwide will be tangled in an expensive web of chemicals, intellectual property, and disabled germplasm that leads to bioserfdom. The technology spells disaster for farmers and global food security because over three quarters of the world's farmers - mainly poor farmers - depend on farm saved seed. The complete removal of farmers from the age-old process of plant breeding through sterilized seed could also signify a disastrous narrowing of the genepool on which everyone depends for food security. SCARY SCOPE: According to RAFI's Research Director Hope Shand, "The patents describe the use of external chemicals to turn on and off genetic traits in plants and go well beyond DeltaPine's original 'Terminator' patent. They are techniques to control a wide variety of input and output (production and processing) traits by spraying with proprietary herbicides or fertilizers. Others take us beyond crop plants to the use of Terminator-style tactics on insects and even possibly mammals." KILLER GENES, JUNKIE SEEDS, AND MODERN-DAY "MIRACLES": Some patents aim to switch the plants germination on or off. AstraZenecas Verminator patents use what it calls killer genes for this purpose. Yet AstraZeneca has been telling governments, scientists, and the press that despite their continuing pursuit of its patents around the world, they wont stop farmers from saving seed. RAFI's Pat Mooney says, "Something didn't add up, so we set out to investigate." Newly discovered patent claims explain the confusing AstraZeneca position. The new patents refine AstraZeneca's "Verminator" technology that links plant growth and germination to repeated application of proprietary chemicals. Without specific patented chemicals, the plant doesn't grow. "Essentially," says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "they're talking about the manufacture of junkie plants that are physically dependent on a patented chemical cocktail." AstraZeneca says it will patent the technology in 77 countries. Says RAFI's Mooney, "So, you see AstraZeneca and the other Gene Giants dont want farmers to buy new seed every year so much as to force them to repurchase their old seed." Monsanto is already pioneering such 'pay by the generation' techniques through legal means - the infamous grower agreements - in the US and Canada; but research is steering toward biological means of achieving the same sad end. Mooney says "It will be vastly more profitable for multinationals to sell seeds programmed to commit suicide at harvest so that farmers must pay the company to obtain the chemicals to have them re-activated for the next planting either through a seed conditioning process or through the purchase of a specialized chemicals that bring saved seed back to life, Lazarus-style." "In effect, this shifts all the seed costs to farmers, and the companies wont have to multiply, ship, and warehouse massive seed stocks," Hammond adds, "As the seed oligopoly strengthens, companies will have less and less incentive to invest in plant breeding research, after all they'll already have the farmers in a position of utter dependency." Pat Mooney agrees, "With these 'Lazarus-link seeds' the advertising investment will continue but the research investment will wither away." GENETIC MUTILATION: An especially disturbing feature of some of the new patents profiled in RAFI's report is the deliberate disabling of natural plant functions that help to fight disease. Swiss biotech giant Novartis is most advanced in this aspect of Traitor technology. Novartis blandly refers to it as "inactivation of endogenous regulation" so that "genes which are natively regulated can be regulated exclusively by the application to the plant of a chemical regulator." Among the genes which Novartis can control in this manner are patented SAR (systemic acquired resistance) genes which are critical to plant's ability to fight off infections from many viruses and bacteria. Thus, Novartis has patented techniques to create plants with natural healthy functions turned off. "The only way to turn them back on and fix these 'damaged goods' " says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "is, well, you guessed it, the application of a propietary chemical." TIGHT-LIPPED MONSANTO: Caught like a deer in the headlights during recent battles over genetically-modified plants - especially in Europe - Monsanto has sought to deflect questions and criticism about Terminator technology by saying that the Terminator belongs to its soon-to-be subsidiary Delta and Pine Land Company. As such, the oft-repeated PR position goes, Monsanto doesn't yet have access to the Terminator and can't inform concerned governments and people about plans for Terminator seed. "It's been their mantra across the world." says RAFI's Mooney, "We've heard the same confusing statements from Monsanto representatives in New Zealand, India, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Brazil, the EU, and the US." Even last week, at a Harvard University presentation, Monsanto's representative similarly shrugged off the question. "In fact," says RAFI's Mooney, "it's a deliberate ploy - or, at best, incomplete information - that obfuscates facts about the company's own research agenda. Monsanto already has its own in-house, patented Terminator technology, which it says it will patent in a whopping 89 countries. Obviously, the company is not being forthright. If Monsanto doesn't start coming clean, it risks further damage to its already tarnished image." WILL TERMINATOR WORK? RAFI notes that some plant scientists are skeptical that Traitor Technology will work successfully in the field. Monsanto, one of the original Traitor Tech proponents, is encouraging this view. There is no doubt that Traitor Tech will be continually refined as it moves toward the market; but terminator plants are already in the greenhouse and profit estimates are being calculated. "It's only a matter of time. Every major pesticide-producing Gene Giant is hard at work perfecting the technology." Shand adds, "Companies don't patent for the fun of the paperwork and paying lawyer's fees. Those who think corporations will drop the Terminator or think it wont make it to market - are living in Fantasyland. Theres too much money to be made. Unless it is banned by governments, Terminator is going to happen, and probably sooner rather than later." WILL FARMERS BUY IT? Delta & Pine Land and Monsanto insist that no one will force farmers to buy Terminator seed. The real question is, will farmers have a choice? The commercial seed industry is imploding, and a handful of Gene Giants already control a rapidly expanding share of major seed markets. After DuPont announced earlier this month that it would buy Pioneer Hi-Bred, the world's largest seed company, the Wall Street Journal concluded that the deal "effectively divides" most of the US seed industry between DuPont and Monsanto. With the disappearance of public sector plant breeders, farmers are becoming increasingly vulnerable and have fewer choices in the marketplace. TERMINATING THE TERMINATOR: RAFI and its partners around the world are contacting governments asking them to declare all of the Terminator-style patent claims as contrary to ordre public. In January, Global Response (a US based non-profit organization) encouraged its 4,000 members in forty countries to write to the Director-General of FAO asking him to oppose the Terminator as a matter of world food security. FAO has replied that governments may take up the issue in Rome April 19 to 23 during the meeting of the FAO Commission on Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture. RAFI will be at that meeting and will make a presentation to governments. Further, concerned individuals from 71 countries have sent almost 7,000 letters to US Agriculture Secretary Glickman asking him to ban the Terminator. Although global opposition is mounting, RAFI worries that the UNs Biodiversity Convention may go "soft" on the environmental and social implications of the technology. When the Convention meets in Montreal in June, it is to receive a scientific study on Terminator. "We will read and respond to that study very quickly," Pat Mooney advises. ------ -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 01:18:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA18079 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 01:18:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA28065 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:23:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA28045 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 00:23:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from p2 (ppp63-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.63]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA11911 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:23:56 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: objectivity and university Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:33:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000701be7b37$fdd0f460$3f3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990330162615.00a7a1c4@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 269 May I recommend a little, hard to find book: Carl Lindgren Cold War in Biology Planarian Press Ann Arbor 1966 which presents the problem of how science, developed as theory, tends to be taught as fact and learned and then built upon as research dogma, with a critical review of how this has contributed to faults in gene theory. As a person with more experience in areas of public policy than university activity, I must say the word 'objective' is too often the first or last resort of interested parties, including the wicked. There are no perspectives, in science, the humanities or public policy (not necessarily exclusive fields :-) , which do not have values, interests and assumptions at their base and it is the exegesis of these and their impact on reasoning which should be the intelligent person's burden anywhere, in relation to our own arguments as well as others. All research sponsorship should be explicit. The anxieties about their own careers of all peer reviewers should be explicitly accepted and understood in their assessment of challenging propositions. Huh, likely! Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 07:26:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA20829 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:26:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA25523 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:26:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.iitb.ac.in (mailhost.iitb.ac.in [202.54.44.115]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA25433 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:26:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 11261 invoked from network); 31 Mar 1999 11:35:30 -0000 Received: from manashi.hss.iitb.ernet.in (144.16.104.2) by mailhost.iitb.ac.in with SMTP; 31 Mar 1999 11:35:30 -0000 Received: from localhost (dp@localhost) by manashi.hss.iitb.ernet.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA26253 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:48:17 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:48:17 +0530 (IST) From: "d.parthasarathy" To: sanet-mg Subject: ecology and economic systems In-Reply-To: <199903270310.LAA10782@phil.gn.apc.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 270 I note that Dan Worley'posts in defense of capitalism, while being high on rhetoric with refrence to democracy, freedom, and well being, rarely enter into discussion on the ecological implications of capitalist modes of production. I am not saying for one moment here that socialist systems have been more concerned about environmental issues. But is extremely important to note of emerging alternatives as effectively shown by Roberto Verzola. Ramachandra Guha and Madhav Gadgil, Ecology and Equity: The use and abuse of nature in contemporary India, (Routledge, 1995) present an interesting and pertinent discussion of how capitalist, liberal and Marxist theorists and practitioners have looked at ecological issues. The book points out the shortcoming of each of these approaches and goes on to discuss about the emerging green alternatives which in India are largely influenced by Gandhian thought; these alternatives are developing and advocating and fighting for alternative paradigms of development which is more equitable and sustainable. Regards D.Parthasarathy Department of Humanities and Social Sciences Indian Institute of Technology, Powai Mumbai, 400076, India Phone: 091 022 576 7372 email: dp@hss.iitb.ernet.in On 26 Mar 1999, Roberto Verzola wrote: > > The capitalism vs. socialism discussion is very relevant to this list, > as I explain below, and I'd like to pursue it further: > > > And for those who think socialism is a better way than capitalism, I > >think you can now purchase an airline ticket to Cuba; one way. > > Socialism -- Cuban or Russian or Chinese style -- is not the only > alternative to capitalism. There is a growing body of literature > worldwide which represents a range of alternatives which does not > subscribe to the Marxist-Leninist principles of Cuba, etc. For want of > a better term, I'd call them the Green alternatives. They reject the > highly monopolistic "free" market approach of capitalism as well as > the centrally-planned "people's" dictatorship of socialism. You can't > have missed these... > > The Green alternatives differ from the socialist one in several ways > at least: > - we prefer decentralized to centralized approaches, and consider the > community as important a locus of human activity as the nation, if not > more; > - we recognize the spiritual as much as the material aspects of > reality; > - we don't look at nature simply as raw material for production but as > our common ecological home with other living things. > > >From the Green viewpoint, socialism and capitalism are two social > expressions of what might be called industrialism, which is focused on > large-scale material production in pursuit of progress. > > This discussion is very relevant to ecological agriculture, because > industrialism approaches agriculture in the same way it approaches the > manufacturing industries. In doing so, it misses the core difference > between industry and agriculture. > > Industry involves transforming raw materials into finished goods > through the application of human labor (often enhanced by machines). > Industry is really about dead matter. If the raw material is alive, it > often has to be killed before it becomes suitable for the industrial > process. Typical operations include: cutting, sawing, melting, > punching, etc. > > Agriculture is about living matter, which goes through its own process > of living growth independent of human intervention. The farmer's role, > unlike that of the worker, is simply to enhance, take care, support, > etc. a living process. Industrial agriculture applies to living > processes methods which are suitable for dead matter and therefore > runs into all kinds of problems. This industrialist approach to > agriculture is a common feature of both capitalism and socialism. > Genetic engineering is a further development of this industrialist > approach to agriculture. > > As for Cuba and the U.S.A.: it is true that more Cubans want to go to > the US than vice versa. But the comparison is somewhat unfair because > Cuba has been a target of a cruel economic embargo for decades and can > only rely on its own limited resources. The embargo, coupled with the > mistakes of the Cuban socialist regime (like relying on the former > USSR and on sugar exports instead of building a self-sufficient > economy), puts the Cuban people through a lot of hardships which many > understandably want to escape from. The U.S., on the other hand, > benefits from American control over huge resources outside their own > borders. Through their unsustainable use of these resources, many > Americans artificially, though temporarily, enjoy a better life than > others. If Americans had to rely purely on their own resources as much > as the Cubans do, the American smugness about their superior standard > of living might dissipate quickly. > > In fact, the decades of U.S. blockade against Cuba has forced the > Castro regime to adopt "Greenish" policies in some areas. It would be > interesting how things would turn out if a socialist country like Cuba > abandons socialism but transforms itself into a Green society rather > than back to capitalism. > > Finally, on democracy and the "free" market: at the core of today's > global capitalism are the corporations, many of which are economically > larger than most of the world's nations. Internally, a corporation is > as top-down and dictatorial as you can imagine. Internally too, the > corporation is a centrally-planned economy, not a free market. There > are more similarities between a corporation and a one-party State than > initially meets the eye. > > Regards to all, > > Roberto Verzola > Philippine Greens > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 08:21:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA21435 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:21:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA27110 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:17:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA27082 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:17:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from server1.mich.com (IDENT:root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA22166 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [207.74.178.19] (pm001-003.dialip.mich.com [207.74.178.19]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA04052 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:17:27 -0500 X-Sender: donald@mail.mich.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:20:44 -0500 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: donald@mich.com (Donald E Davison) Subject: Organic Produce Stands Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 271 O R G A N I C P R O D U C E S T A N D S http://www.mich.com/~donald Greetings, At the above web site there is a listing of Organic Produce Stands for the benefit of the highway traveler, the drop in consumer. This collection of organic farms is for your use during your travels, so you can drop in and purchase clean organic produce directly from the Organic Producers at their produce stands. The number of farms I have listed is small compared to the total number of Organic Farms in North America because this is all the information I have at this time. If you know of an Organic Farm that should be listed, feel free to eMail its information to me at: donald@mich.com But, the farm must be an Organic Farm - that is it must be a producer of toxic free produce. And, it must sell for the benefit of the drop in consumer - sell via one or more locations such as a Farm Stand or a Stand away from the farm or a Stand at a Farmers' Market. Regards, Donald - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Typewritter Art ..aaaaaaa.. oo$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$o. o$$^^$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Oo o$$$* o$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$o o$* o$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$o o$| $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$*"""" .oo$$o $$$$$ $$$\ "$$$$$$*"" .a$$$$$*" $$$$> / O$$$$ /$$$$o oz$$$$""" $$$> o$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$" \$\> o$$$$$$$$ .$$$$$$$$$$$**$$$$*" \>\> o$$* $$ $$$$$*"" )$$$$( o$$* $$e o$$$ (|(||| o$$* *$$ooo$$$ (|| (||| $$" $$$$$$$ (|| (|| o$ *$$$" || || $ || || II II O || || | || || | || || | |\ |) || | | \ || |( | | O || |( - - - - - - -|- - - -|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 09:39:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22676 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:39:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11728 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:37:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from um-mail01.umsystem.edu (um-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.238.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11713 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:37:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by um-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:37:49 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: "'sanet'" Subject: FW: A Revolution in Agriculture Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:37:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 272 Thought some of you might like to see the opening keynote session at the "Sustaining People through Agriculture Network" Conference in Columbia, MO that was given by John Ikerd to over a group of 130 sustainable agriculture farmers. What's so neat about this is that our local paper picked it up and ran his presentation. I have a hard copy of the article but Guy found it on the web and sent it to me. If anyone is interested in any of John's other papers/presentations, including the one he gave at the Upper Midwest Organic Farming Conference a couple of weeks ago, you can find them at: http://www.ssu.missouri.edu/faculty/JIkerd/papers/ debi kelly, MAC > Subject: A Revolution in Agriculture > > Hey all- > Here is an interesting article in the Columbia Tribune which was > delivered > at a local conference. We need only think of Rome, Greece, Egypt, etc. and > how their cultures/empires collapsed upon the demise of their agriculture > system due to poor stewardship of the land/outgrowth of its carrying > capacity. > Namaste', > Guy Clark > > Tribune Online News Story > Story ran on March 30, 1999 > > A revolution, row by row > > By JOHN IKERD > > Sustainability was once referred to as "a quiet revolution sweeping across > American agriculture." The revolution continues, but the time for > quietness > has passed. > > The current crisis in American agriculture, like the revolution, has been > a > quiet one. Thousands of farm families are being forced off the land, an > inevitable consequence, we are told, of technological progress. Farmers > are > offered the options of getting bigger, giving in to corporate control or > getting out. > > The crisis is a chronic symptom of the type of agriculture we have been > promoting in this country for the past 50 years, magnified by the brazen > attempts of giant corporations to wrest control from family farms and > complete the industrialization of agriculture. But industrialization is > neither inevitable nor progressive. > > There's a better way to farm, a better way to produce food and fiber and a > better way to live. We are entering a new era in American agriculture - an > era in which we learn to support people through agriculture rather than > sacrifice their well being to support the industry of agriculture. It's > time to proclaim a new agricultural revolution. > > Sustainable agriculture and industrial agriculture are two fundamentally > different philosophies-diametrically and irreconcilably opposed. There is > no common ground on which to compromise. > > Our task is made more difficult by institutions that see industrialization > as the only viable option for the future. The government subsidizes our > industrial competitors with everything from tax concessions to direct farm > program payments. We are excluded from traditional markets and prevented > from marketing direct to customers by a maze of complex government > regulations. We are denied equal access to the research and educational > resources of public institutions. > > Others believe agriculture is mostly about products and profits - not > people. To them, if food is cheaper or more convenient, it doesn't really > matter who produces it or how it is produced. But people do matter. > > About a year ago, when I was recovering from open-heart surgery, I read a > book: "The Life and Major Works of Thomas Paine." Paine, a writer during > the American Revolution, was credited with articulating the ideas of the > Revolution in terms that could be understood by the "common man." He > signed > his early writings with the pen name "Common Sense." > > Today, Paine's work provides valuable insights into how to keep a > revolution from failing - at least when the cause makes common sense. > Sustainable agriculture, like freedom and democracy, is a cause that makes > common sense. > > Paine gave no quarter to the enemies of freedom and democracy. Nothing in > his writings could be mistaken for impartial objectivity. His papers > always > extolled the great benefits that would be realized by the colonies once > they had shed the yoke of British rule. And he never doubted that the > American colonists eventually would win their war for independence. > > We must adopt Thomas Paine's approach to revolutionize American > agriculture > - not gradual, incremental changes in farming practices but a > fundamentally > different philosophy of farming. The divergence between industrial > agriculture and sustainable agriculture is as great as that between > monarchy and democracy. > > This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the American people. They > need > to know the truth about what is happening to American agriculture and why. > > > We need to tell them about our new kind of agriculture that will sustain > people, not just the industry of agriculture. And we need to give them > common-sense reasons why the old system cannot be sustained and why > sustainable agriculture is not a luxury but an absolute necessity. > > The current economic system rewards the exploitation of natural resources > and people, and the visible, tangible epitome of that system is the large, > publicly owned corporation. The corporation is the ultimate "economic man" > - motivated always and only by its own short-term self-interest, driven > solely by an insatiable need for profit and growth. This enemy should be > given no quarter. > > An industrial agriculture might be able to meet our food and fiber needs > of > today and maybe for another 50 years, but it is degrading and destroying > the very resources - soil, water and energy - upon which it depends. An > industrial agriculture is said to be efficient, but not when one counts > the > enormous costs it imposes on the environment and on people in rural > communities. > > Environmentally sound and socially responsible farming operations already > exist - many of them as economically efficient as their industrial > counterparts. We need to tell the general public that sustainability is > not > only possible but also logical and, ultimately, essential. > > The industrial agricultural system might have been logical in the past, > but > it no longer makes sense. America's version of industrial agriculture is > very similar to the agriculture that failed miserably in the old Soviet > Union - bringing down the country in the process. Some claim that our > system relies on free markets. But we are turning agriculture over to > multinational corporations that control everything from genetic seed > stocks > to supermarket shelves, eliminating all the free markets in between. > Instead of free markets, we have something more like central planning - > little different in principle from the old Soviet industrial agriculture. > And the outcome will be the same: failure. > > Farmers themselves are the architects of the new sustainable agriculture. > They are the explorers, the colonists and the revolutionaries. Like the > revolutionaries who created a democracy, they will confront hardship, > frustration and failure. Ultimately, they will succeed. > > Never doubt the cause is just. Industrial corporate agriculture is not > good > for people and thus is not sustainable. It's just common sense. > Agriculture > ultimately must sustain a desirable quality of life for people - on farms, > in rural communities and in the cities. It's just common sense. Human > civilization cannot be sustained without a sustainable agriculture. > > It's time for a new revolution in American agriculture. It's just plain > common sense. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > John Ikerd is a professor of agricultural economics at MU. This paper was > presented in the opening session of the March 24 "Sustaining People > Through > Agriculture" conference in Columbia. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 09:43:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22771 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:43:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA13944 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:47:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA13926 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from organic-harvest@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id D62VN6AP; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:47:17 EST To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:50:39 -0500 Subject: CLA - the Cancer Fighter Message-ID: <19990331.075042.4046.0.organic-harvest@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,8-9,12-17 From: Barbara R Buchmayer Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 273 Greetings, My husband and I are starting a grass-based organic dairy with on -farm creamery. Our Jersy-cross cows graze 8 to 10 months a year on our north-central Missouri farm. We have heard a lot about Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) as a strong anti-carcinogen and need info on how to preserve CLA and pass it on to our consumers. Does CLA survive pasteurization and homogenization? How about freezing the milk for storage? We drink raw milk but hope to keep the CLA in our processed milk to benefit our organic consumers. Any info in this area would be extremely helpful. Thanks, Barb Buchmayer Green Hills Harvest organic-harvest@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 10:04:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23166 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:04:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA22965 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:06:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22828 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:06:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:08:17 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org'" Subject: Fwd(2): Glickman Letter Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:08:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 274 Forwarded: -----Original Message----- From: MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org [mailto:MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 9:07 PM To: san@nalusda.gov Subject: Fwd(2): Glickman Letter Dear Sanet-ers: A copy of the excellent letter of Dr. John Horne from the Kerr Center of Sustainable Agriculture, to Mr. Dan Glickman, Secretary of Agriculture, was sent to another listserve to which I subscribe. I thought some of you might find it very interesting and asked Dr. Horne's permission to forward it to this listserve. He graciously gave his permission. Here's his letter. Marian Buckner ********************** March 25, 1999 The Honorable Dan Glickman Secretary U. S. Department of Agriculture 14th St. and Independence Ave., SW Washington, D. C. 20250 Dear Mr. Secretary: Last year was a tough year for farmers and livestock producers. Record low prices for hogs, continuing low prices for cattle and commodity crops, and adverse weather made it difficult for many in agriculture to keep going. But keep going is what we have always done! But even more disturbing than the weather are the daily newspaper reports about mergers and acquisitions that continue the trend of concentration in agribusiness. And that means that markets are not as open and free as they should be. All of this bad news compelled me to write you a letter that addresses what I see as key problems and solutions in agriculture, issues that the USDA needs to address swiftly and decisively. This is my third letter to a Secretary of Agriculture. The first two were in an official capacity, as chairman of the National Sustainable Agriculture Advisory Council. I'll start with a brief sketch of my credentials and experience, so you may assess my credibility and my qualifications to comment on agricultural policy. My name is Jim Horne, I am a 51-year-old son of a sharecropper, born and raised in southwestern Oklahoma. I was educated in a rural high school in the town of Roosevelt, named after Teddy Roosevelt, a near ghost town today. I continue to farm and ranch but my real livelihood comes from serving as president of The Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture, Inc. in Poteau, Oklahoma. The Kerr Center is a non-profit foundation, established by the family of the late Senator Robert S. Kerr of Oklahoma. I have a B. S. degree in Agricultural Education, a M. S. in Agricultural Economics and a Ph.D. in the biological sciences. Since 1972 I have leveraged my passion for farming by assisting farmers and ranchers throughout Oklahoma. I and a few others provided the initial testimony in the mid 80's to both the Senate and House Committees that made the Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) Program actually happen. I have since served as chair of the Southern Region SARE Program, an unpaid job I did because I believe in the program. But I'm not here to talk about myself. I want to take the remaining space to visit with you about the concerns that I have for agriculture. Having lived among and represented farmers all my life, I believe I know well the issues that actually hurt farmers most: market concentration, the notion that exports will save us, the illusion of agricultural efficiency, and the false promise of corporate agriculture. Market Concentration Never before have so few been in charge of so much especially when we start talking about food. I'll not cite the figures, we are both familiar with them. But I will tell you the impact of market concentration. Even if farmers use the very best management practices in producing food, the most sophisticated marketing techniques, such as the use of futures and options, it is not enough. We cannot even come close to negating the effect that a handful of firms controlling over 80 percent of our meat packing industry and a huge chunk of our grain market is having on us. Prices are not being fairly or openly reported. Proving it requires a desire for truth and a band of attorneys backed by big money or a Department concerned with its clients. In Oklahoma, there is virtually no live market for pigs or chickens today. That is unless you want to trade off the tailgate of your pickup at the edge of town. While the Department has preached and taught that free markets and competition are the best thing for agriculture, its own policies have contributed to the loss of both in the United States. Smaller processors are being forced out of business or bought out and competition is being reduced instead of increased throughout all of agriculture. Because of NAFTA and other trade agreements, farmers in other countries have competitive advantages over our own farmers. Is this what the Department means about a more global and competitive environment? Perhaps the Native American knew best when he said that Washington speaks with a forked tongue. The profits in agriculture are not being made at the farm gate. The USDA needs to take bold steps to turn this around, and begin searching for and supporting new forms of businesses owned by farmers such as new generation co-ops. These businesses will help keep farmers on the land and keep rural communities intact. On behalf of two million farmers, I urge you, Mr Secretary, to take immediate action, using the full force of your Department and its allies, to stop the further concentration in agriculture and its processing industries. It is a matter of food security. Exports Every Secretary of Agriculture I have known since I was a young lad on the farm has told us how exports would not only save us but would actually put money in our pockets. But have they? I recall listening to the radio and hearing announcements that Russia would import grain. Prices would skyrocket in financial markets, and then a few days later prices would fall drastically when the deal was canceled. For many farmers, it's tough to understand how this could be: how the price of something they produce as a staple commodity could be worth so much one day and so little the next. Two things that contribute to price volatility are: the weather (which can't be controlled) and the policies that come forth out of USDA (which can be). The average farmer is not the winner when prices are volatile-the winners are the handful of large grain and meat packing companies that win either on the cash market or through their hedged positions. Therefore for the 90 percent of farmers that are uncomfortable with or lack sufficient volume to utilize marketing strategies, the market gyrations surrounding an export sale mostly have painful consequences. A cynic might look at the situation and say that we in agriculture have reverted to the social Darwinist view of survival of the fittest-that you must be become a market whiz or you don't deserve the right to farm. It seems to me that agricultural surpluses are viewed as valuable, not because they help farmers, but because they can be used to offset negative balance of trade payments and keep food cheap. At the same time, these agricultural surpluses drive down prices and put farmers out of business. In other words, agricultural surpluses turned into exports are being used as a tool to support a country (the United States) that is about five percent of the population of the world, yet uses about 40 percent of the resources of the world, many of them imported and certainly not essential for life. Trading food for trinkets worries me when the cost of producing food is not accounted for. It is difficult to say anything negative about exports for fear of being misunderstood. There are indeed hungry people all over the world. But, often they are hungry because of inadequate distribution, waste, and corrupt or greedy governments, not because there aren't enough calories produced to feed the world. If we are to be both kind and helpful to the rest of the world, then let's get to the task- helping them feed themselves. Can we not wake up and see that a bushel of wheat is much more than just wheat? There is a whole production process behind it that consumes the earth's limited natural resources. No one is even talking about the hidden cost of full throttle agricultural production, such as removing sediment and pesticides out of the water. Not to mention the cost of restoring some ecological balance to our farming systems. If society only knew the true cost of exports, it might come to the conclusion that what we gain is not worth what we are paying. Yes, exports have cost us farmers on the land, increased soil erosion, and polluted water. On behalf of the many farmers, mostly small and medium-sized family farmers who have been underserved by your Department, who are increasing in age and are unable to grasp the sophisticated market programs, much less understand the impact of USDA rules and regulations, I challenge this injustice. It is necessary that our Congress and our USDA officials recognize the impact of their actions on the lives of the people that their department was created to serve, a department that Abe Lincoln called "the people's department." Please recognize, Mr. Secretary, that exports are not a panacea, and that they have played a significant role in changing the structure of agriculture, in decreasing social fairness, creating ecological disturbances, and in wasting the nation's treasury of natural resources to offset a negative balance of trade. We are now experiencing the beginning of ecological disturbances in many fragile areas across rural America. Agricultural Efficiency For as long as I can remember, the whole game of agriculture was about becoming more efficient. That generally involved becoming more specialized. Certainly during the 60's when I was a college student, we were moving out of an age when farms were more diversified into an age of specialization and the development of monoculture farming. It was hard to argue against the point that specialists could do a much better job than a general farmer. Who could argue with the notion of reducing waste, feeding more with less, and squeezing the profitability equation to show more cash profit? Undoubtedly, we assumed it was the right thing to do. Efficiency was even promoted in the name of old fashioned thrift, an idea that has always appealed to farm families. However, Mr. Secretary, you and I know that this kind of efficiency is somewhat superficial. Efficiency has turned out to mean moving people off their home places. Why is it that the USDA and our deans of agriculture can spew forth the stats on efficiency without counting the real cost to society? In this land of plenty, is efficiency the only measuring stick? It has spawned the false idea that if we can become efficient enough we won't really even need our neighbor. It's no wonder when I drive north across the western tier of Oklahoma and Kansas counties, I don't see people on the land any more. Instead I see big tractors rolling across fields and then the boarded up windows of what used to be the hometowns of so many farm boys and girls. Were it not for my mother who lives in such a town, I would not look forward to those visits back home. Who wants to witness the making of a modern day ghost town? Surely, Mr. Secretary, as a Kansan, a neighbor, you know what I am talking about. Rural America is being desolated because of this notion of efficiency. Again I ask, have we as a nation through our farm policy, adopted the principles of Darwin, that only the toughest deserve to remain? I wish it were not so, but the evidence seems quite clear that historically, we have done just that. Believe me, I'm a red-blooded American who believes that a little competition is good, but if farm policy is about providing missiles to assist the strong in gaining more land, and providing darts to those who are small and underserved-our family farmers-then it is wrong on both moral and ethical grounds. Mr. Secretary, make sure that when you make policy that at least you "do no harm" to those who remain. And Mr. Secretary, it would be even better if you would develop programs that would help provide opportunities for young farmers, move swiftly to implement the findings of the Small Farm Commission, and expedite the settlement to those that have suffered outright discrimination from the Department that Abe called the "people's department." Corporate Agriculture As an agricultural economist, I know all about the prevailing paradigm that when outside capital comes to a community, it is good for the community. For many years I accepted it. But Mr. Secretary, unfortunately, we are finding that profits from that outside business normally flow back to where that original money came from. Local institutions and businesses are bypassed in the construction phase of corporate-owned confined animal feeding operations. This is exactly what has happened with the coming of corporate-raised hogs (and to a lesser extent with corporate chickens) to rural areas in our state. And where are the good jobs that these industries are supposed to bring? Mr. Secretary, surely you remember the Time article on corporate agriculture, and remember the U.S. News and World Report article on INS raids of processing plants and the way these plants exploit their workers. Mr. Secretary, help us to avoid sweat shops in agriculture in this country. We don't need them. Suffice it to say that more and more communities are being overwhelmed with overcrowded schools, rises in crime, and environmental liabilities, such as polluted water, rather than prosperity. It is clear that this pollution threatens the ecological communities that agriculture is dependent upon. We are changing the balance of nature. And instead of bringing economic prosperity to a broad cross- section of people in the area, these corporations have exploited workers and siphoned profits to only a few in the community, while most of the profits go out-of- state and sometimes out of the country. Solutions There are other concerns that I have- the affects of biotechnology and the loss of biodiversity, to name two of the most serious. The list could go on and on, but the question before us, Mr. Secretary is, "What can you do, and what can I do?" I and countless farmers are willing to do our share. Government cannot save us, it cannot guarantee us a profit-but the government can do a few things. 1. It can stop promoting expansion of industrial agriculture and allowing concentration of agribusiness until the last family farmer moves to town. We don't need another reorganization of the Department of Agriculture. What we need is a reorientation towards a more sustainable agriculture. Help us convince the world that sustainable agriculture is not about starving the world, but is about empowering people wherever they are to sustain themselves. 2. It can stop talking about the value of sustainable agriculture and begin to fund it in a significant way. We need to go from a widow's mite of twelve million per year for the Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program to a respectable level of funding. As you have been told, the program can easily fund twice the proposals it receives and suffer no loss in quality of projects. Something is wrong when the Kerr Center, a rather modest institution from a small state, itself devotes the equivalent of ten percent of what the gigantic USDA spends on sustainable agriculture! 3. It can make sustainable agriculture a priority within the many agencies of the USDA. I am pleased to see that some agencies are doing this. But there is a lot of catching up to do. Somehow employees of "the people's department" need to be reinvigorated to carry out the job of meeting the needs of the present generation, without jeopardizing the choices of future generations. Please Mr. Secretary, distinguish yourself from other secretaries. Renew our faith that you are a man of deeds, not just words. We await your reply. Sincerely, Jim Horne, Ph.D. President To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 11:49:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25974 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:48:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08226 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:25:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from um-mail01.umsystem.edu (um-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.238.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08210 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:25:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by um-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:25:48 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: "'direct-mkt@reeusda.gov'" , "'sanet'" Cc: "Pigg, Edie" Subject: Farmer's market Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:25:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 275 I've been contacted by some of my extension colleagues to help them with the local farmers market. See message below. The market in Columbia has been growing by leaps and bounds over the past few years. They are trying to negotiate with the city to make their rental site a permanent site. They also would like to put up a building and a little further down the road to put in a community/incubator kitchen and perhaps a local foods restaurant while the market is open. The facility could also be used as a community center as well. Essentially, we are looking for other communities who have undergone similar transitions from temporary location to permanent location, from outdoors to a building with both indoor and outdoor stalls, to envisioning kitchen, restaurant, community center down the road. Any contacts/networking would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, debi kelly, MAC > -----Original Message----- > From: Hill, David L. > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 1:55 PM > To: Hendrickson, Mary K.; Kelly, Debi > Subject: FW: Farmer's market > > Subject: Farmer's market > > A couple of us in Boone County are working with a farmer's market. > We'd appreciate any insight, guidance, resource materials you might have > come up with in your work with similar groups. Particularly..., > Does anyone have a business plan that has been developed by a > farmer's market? > How are the farmer's markets you have worked with organized? > Not-for-profit? Other? > Have any of them been successful in obtaining a building? If so, > how did they do it? > How do they relate to county government or city government > officials? > How do they finance their facilities? > What role does UOE play in the farmer's market? > Do any of the farmer's markets you work with have community > (certified) kitchens? > Do you know of any good resources for farmer's markets? > > We'll appreciate any help you can give us. > > Don Day, Edie Pigg, Cassy Venters To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 12:44:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27328 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:44:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22553 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:43:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22496 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:43:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA09392 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.43); 31 Mar 99 11:43:57 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.43); 31 Mar 99 11:43:33 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:43:32 EST Subject: Re: objectivity and university In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <6317C32329@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 276 Folks: my but you are a wonderfully creative and helpful bunch of people. My thanks for a most stimulating and powerful set of responses to my query on objectivity and the role of a university. I am preparing a series of 4 GE talks for disparate audiences this spring, and will likely use (with permission and attribution) some or all of the input you've so graciously given. The talks will be mounted on my homepage after they are delivered, for all to read and respond to. Thanks again. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 16:20:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02561 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:20:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA23291 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:03:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23236 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:03:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp182.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.182]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA15917 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:07:03 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:03:28 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-29; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 277 [Reposted with permission] Thanks to Jim McNulty for posting the following article Mon, 29 Mar 1999 ONE POTATO, NEW POTATO / Farmers and biotech companies are battling for control Newsday THE FRESHLY dug potato was lumpy, bumpy, misshapen and oblong. Most of the other potatoes in the row were just as peculiar. Jamesport potato farmer John Kujawski, 57, who tends about 600 acres of land with his brother Ray, had planted a few of the first bioengineered potatoes on Long Island. They were duds, the Kujawskis and other East End potato farmers agreed. "I couldn't see anything about them that was good," John Kujawski said simply. >From Maine to California, many small farmers are distrustful of the new "magical" seeds aimed at yielding crops with built-in pesticides and - eventually - with more nutrients than the traditional type. They are skeptical, too, of the multinational companies providing the patented seeds, and fear there is no room for small farmers in the bioengineered future. "Genetic engineering will never, ever serve the needs of the small farmer," said Margaret Mellon, a lawyer and molecular biologist who directs the agriculture and biotechnology program for the Union of Concerned Scientists. Patents of bioengineered seeds are at the core of a dispute over control that has pitted small farmers against self-described "life sciences" companies such as DuPont and Monsanto that are using technology to produce new, unique forms of food. Patents for modified plants, first allowed in 1980, now rank second only to software patents in the number of legal challenges filed - with most of the rise in just the last four years, according to patent attorneys. Monsanto, which has more than 100 patents for soybeans and corn alone, has sued hundreds of farmers and others for reusing or reselling the company's seeds. Other companies have sued as well, and in what could become a landmark case, one Iowa farm-supply dealership has sought to throw out such a suit on the grounds that plants shouldn't be patented. A district court judge made the unusual move of fast-tracking the case directly to a federal appeals court. "This case is critical to the biotechnology industry," said Michael K. Kirk, a patent lawyer and executive director of a lawyers' group that filed a friend-of-the-court brief. Without patents, the companies could not control the supply of bioengineered seeds. But some farmers, in turn, say they can't afford to buy patented seed each year, and many depend on reusing some seeds. To obtain Monsanto's Roundup Ready soy beans, for example, which resist the company's popular weed killer Roundup, farmers must agree to plant the seeds only once - instead of saving seeds from their own crops, as virtually all soybean farming was previously done. In the Midwest, [ Monsanto ] , a $7.5-billion company with 22,000 employees worldwide, has even taken measures such as broadcasting on local radio stations the names of farmers suspected of reusing seeds. Some growers have paid hefty settlements to Monsanto. Monsanto even acquired one biotech company to get what has been dubbed "terminator technology," which renders second-generation plants from saved patented seed sterile and unproductive. Percy Schmeiser, a Canadian farmer, has been sued by Monsanto for allegedly planting patented seeds for the plant that produces canola oil. Schmeiser says he is innocent - that the wind and the bees cross-pollinated genetically engineered plants with those in his field. The companies say they have to be tough. And farmers who play by the rules want them to be, said Karen Marshall, a spokeswoman for the St. Louis-based Monsanto. She said money recouped from lawsuit settlements goes into a scholarship program for children of farmers, and that only 20 to 30 percent of farmers save seed. "The vast majority of growers are just fine following the rules," she said, adding that for any farmer unhappy with the terms, "You could choose another seed." But some farmers say the world of agriculture Monsanto and other large companies are creating isn't that simple. "They are buying up all of the seed companies, and the choices we get are choices that have been altered genetically and owned by that company," said Roger Allison, executive director of the Missouri Rural Crisis Center. "It won't be in the so-far future that farmers will be tenant farmers for the chemical companies, at best." Both sides are closely watching developments in the Iowa court case, which could put billions of dollars of investment by companies at risk. The case, challenging the granting of patents on modifications of plants such as corn and cotton, will be taken up by the federal appeals court in Washington, with oral arguments perhaps beginning this summer. The case arose from [ Pioneer Hi-Bred International ] 's suit against Marvin Redinius of Belmond, Iowa, president of a farm-supply dealership. Redinius bought $54,000 worth of Pioneer's pest-resistant corn seed from a middleman and sold them without permission from Pioneer, which has since been bought by DuPont. Redinius sought to have the case thrown out on grounds that Congress didn't intend to open such a wide door for plant patents. With the proliferation of bioengineered crops, farmers also fear that cross-pollination with traditional seed will lead to more homogeneous and less diverse crops - putting them in more danger of being wiped out by a new strain of disease or pest. Buying the bioengineered seeds - at premium prices - doesn't guarantee they will yield a good crop. Because the technology is in its infancy, the seeds sometimes don't meet expectations for yield or quality. As for those first bioengineered Long Island potatoes - the company promised savings through reduced spraying, but, said Kujawski, "you still had to spray the potatoes for aphids and blight." The bioengineering "didn't take care of anything but the potato beetle." (Copyright Newsday Inc., 1999) _____via IntellX_____ ....... Here is an article (posted by Jim McNulty) showing how industry is pressuring to allow Biotech foods on the market ....... Lawmakers urge EPA to reconsider plant pesticide rules 25.03.99 By Julie Vorman WASHINGTON, March 24 (Reuters) - Farm state lawmakers from both parties on Wednesday attacked the Environmental Protection Agency's plan to start regulating genetically modified plant pesticides, saying the rules could stifle the biotechnology industry. Grower groups and 11 scientific organisations contend the EPA has no business making rules for bioengineered crops with built-in resistance to certain pests because the plants are no different than those bred by conventional methods. ............ Here is some correspondence, which is a great example how we can pressure industry: From: Jimmy Seah To: Sandy Willett, Mead Johnson Nutritionals Date: 18 March 1999 01:01 Subject: Shame on you, MeadJohnson Dear Sandy Willett, Our daughter is now almost 4 years old. She has always been on ProSobee. We also know parents whose children have also grown up on ProSobee. Lately we are concern over genetically manipulated produces. Since the label on ProSobee does not categorically state so, we will like to know from you whether your products do or do not contain any genetically manipulated produces ( such as corn, soya beans etc ). Is ProSobee made with anything at all that is grown from product made by Monsanto or such companies? We will like to know if ProSobee is made with anything other then naturally grown produce. Thank you and we await your reply ProSobee family ps: we in Malaysia, the ProSobee, comes is a all blue can, somewhat different from the one shown in this web site. --- Response from MeadJohnson Thanks for your Internet note requesting information regarding the soybeans used to make the soy protein in ProSobee. I appreciate having an opportunity to respond. Yes, genetically engineered soybeans are used to produce the soy protein isolate in ProSobee. The Food and Drug Administration in the United States(FDA) evaluated extensive data pertaining to the modified soybeans and concluded that they are the same as other soybeans in nutrition, composition, allergic potential, and their ability to be processed into other ingredients such as oils, used in the manufacture of infant formula, and other foods. The FDA, which requires genetically modified foods meet the same safety standards required for all foods, has agreed to their unrestricted use. Several professional organizations concerned about the quality of food products(including the Institute of Food Technologists) support the FDA's conclusions. Mead Johnson is a leading global infant formula manufacturer, and we arecommitted to providing safe, high-quality nutritional formulas for babies and adults. Our own high standards, combined with those of other global regulatory agencies (which all formulas must meet), should assure that all our products will remain safe and nutritious. Sincerely, Sandy Willett Mead Johnson Nutritionals MJMedAff@usnotes.bms.com Tel: 812/429-6399 (office hours 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Central Time) Fax: 812/429-7189 http://www.meadjohnson.com Dear Sandy, I am tremendously upset. I would have answer your e-mail earlier if not for the fact that I am busy looking for a alternative to replace ProSobee for our daughter. For the past week I have cursed the name of MeadJohnson so many times, I thought I have gone evil or mad. Why was it not clearly stated on the pack?!!! Why do you assume that as long as it's FDA approved, than consumers will not mind taking it? Based on their track records and of the things that they have approved over the years, we have known better now than just to take the words of the FDA as the gospel. We will now decide for ourselves what we should or should not eat. And genetically engineered food is what I will not eat and will not allow my children to eat. We all know very well that the likes of Monsanto's are motivated by nothing else other than money. With money and influence, they will be able to get anything approved. What is more shameful, is for companies like yours, to jump onto the bangwagon. For you to introduce genetically engineered material into baby food without any form of notice is deceitful. MeadJohnson, is now no different from the rest: Motivate by greed. Your corporate philosophy of making wholesome and healthy products for the family is nothing more than an advertising tagline. We have now ceased to believe in you and your products. What is legal is not neccessary morally correct. Our family feel cheated by your conduct. We are angry and upset that for years we have being giving to our daughter things that we are always trying to avoid. We will hold MeadJohnson responsible if anything at all should happen to our daughter in times to come. We demand that: 1. MeadJohnson immediately stop producing products that contain genetically engineered material. 2. MeadJohnson make immediately public announcement on their products that contain genetically engineered materials. 3. MeadJohnson labels all products that are currently on the market that contain genetically engineered. Our actions: 1. We have stop the use of ProSobee and all products made by MeadJohnson. As of this point we are no long a customer of MeadJohnson. 2. We will inform all our friends who are giving their children ProSobee and advise them to do likewise. 3. We will immediately e-mail a copy of this reply to Greenpeace International and pray to God that they will organise a gobal boycott of MeadJohnson's product until your remove all genetically engineered materials from your products. 4. We will lobby to our government agencies and non-government organisations for a ban of your products which contain genetically engineered materails as well as a boycott of your products. Finally, MeadJohnson, your are very irresponsible to have marketed ProSobee which contained genetically engineered material without proper labels and notice. You have caused our family severe pain. Jimmy Seah _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 16:21:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02595 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:21:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03225 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:20:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mx02.together.net (mx02.together.net [204.97.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA03197 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:20:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from zoo.uvm.edu (dial-232-btvt.udial.together.net [209.91.1.172]) by mx02.together.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA30586 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:20:37 -0500 Message-ID: <37023F36.3E08E66@zoo.uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:28:57 +0000 From: Fred Magdoff Reply-To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: new video - Time to Act for Family Farms Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 278 Sanet Folks, Thought many of you would be interested in this new video. FRED MAGDOFF Time to Act for Family Farms! A Report of the USDA National Commission on Small Farms Learn how government policies affect opportunities of our nation's farmers, the quality of our environment, and the health of our communities. Find out how you can make a difference by renting the video, Time to Act for Family Farms! Time to Act for Family Farms! is a 26-minute video featuring the value of small farms to our economy, environment and community life the challenges facing small farmers, their families and rural communities and the policy choices at stake. In January 1998, the USDA National Commission on Small Farms released their report A Time to Act, to Secretary Glickman. The Commission made a compelling case for the value of small farms to our nation's economic stability, environmental protection and social fabric. A Time to Act includes a comprehensive plan for changes in the U.S. Department of Agriculture's policies to enable greater economic opportunity for small farmers nationwide. The Time to Act for Family Farms video illustrates the challenges faced by small farmers through the stories of a Black farmer in Georgia working to organize a vegetable marketing cooperative; hog farmers and their rural neighbors in Minnesota fighting for access to fair markets and pursuing low-cost and environmentally sound methods for raising hogs; and a diversified organic farming family in California marketing directly to urban consumers. See how government policies affect the opportunities of these farmers and others like them. Find out more about the policy choices before Secretary Glickman and our elected representatives and how you can participate in the Time to Act Campaign. The video is available for use at organizational meetings, workshops or events. You can also request materials from which to make copies to handout to viewers. To rent a copy of the Time to Act for Family Farms video, mail this request form and $5.00 for postage and handling to the Center for Rural Affairs at PO Box 406 Walthill, NE 68067. Please tell us how you plan to use the video and the date of your meeting or event. ________________________________________________________________________ Yes, I'd like to rent a copy of Time to Act for Family Farms video. Name Mailing Address: Ph: Fax: E-mail: Please describe meeting or event where video will be shown and audience size: Would you like materials to handout? ___ Yes ___ No Please Note: You are expected to return the video within 5 days after rental, and are responsible for the postage and handling costs of $5.00. Payment must accompany order. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 18:35:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05446 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:35:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA21067 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:35:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA20996 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA06621 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:34:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [139.142.112.125] [139.142.112.125] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m10STUF-000WTOC for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:29:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:17:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Should Our Meat Be Irradiated? From: "Beth Lischeron" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 279 Dear Vic, Apology accepted, absolutely - and apologies from me for my 'sensitivity' as well! I guess we both have some buttons here! I think this is an interesting example of how difficult it truly is to communicate with nothing but words on a page - totally lacking all the other 'secondary' information - tone, pitch, facial movements... but that's another story. Thanks a lot for the information on the irradiation process - I'm sure many of us were unaware of the exact process, and it is good to find out. But I guess when it comes right down to it, my earlier (cynical, maybe, but I don't think narrowminded) rhetorical question still holds - where is the stuff coming from? And if I understand you correctly, it requires a nuclear reactor somewhere in the process? If this is so, then (for me) this is one very strong reason why I don't 'support' it right off the bat. Anyway, I am happy to let this one lie if you are... All the best, Beth ---------- >From: Vkach@aol.com >To: dragon@islandnet.com >Subject: Re: Should Our Meat Be Irradiated? >Date: Thu Mar, 1999, 15:15 > >Beth > >Permit me to apologize for the "personal pot-shot." Perhaps I was a bit too >sensitive at the time when reading your post. > >I'd like the public to be more informed, and not only on this particular >subject, but on other controversial subjects. But the information propagated >must be accurate and balanced. Balanced, meaning that the whole story is told >and not just that which is personally appealing. Perhaps, that's why the "pot- >shot." > >Again, I apologize for offending you. > >Regarding the public forum, I think open discussion benefits all. > >I posted a response to another earlier misrepresentation of irrradiation. Most >users of radioactive material, if not exclusively, irradiated using gamma >photons emitted from the decay of Cobalt-60. Cobalt-60 is artificial produced >from non-radioactive Cobalt-59. The sources for this metal are found mostly in >Canada and Russia. > >This non-radioactive form of Cobalt is machined to a certain size, typically >1.25 in (diam.) and 1-1.25 in. in length. These cylinders of machined metal >are encapsulated and placed in a heavy-water reactor for a period of about 24 >months. > >During the process of activation, atoms of Cobalt-59 "absorb" neutrons into >their nucleus causing the atom to be unstable, or radioactive. It begins to >decay, even during the activation process. The half life is about 5.24 years. >The decay product is Nickel-60, a non-radioactive atom. > >The encapsulated, activated Cobalt-60 is again encapsulated in a stainless >steel capsule which is welded shut. In this form, the capsules or "pencils" >are used in irradiators, facilities built for the specific use of irradiating >safely. > >The magnitude of energy given off in the decay process, that is, the radiation >doing the job of inactivating replication of microbes, is insufficient to >cause anything to become radioactive. > >Spices have been irradiated for a few decades. These spices are used in >variety of seasonings, toppings and flavorings. > >Deboned chicken has been irradiated in France over the past two decades. > >NASA has been irradiating prepared foods used on space missions in order to >preserve the quality of the food for nearly two decades. > >There are people, and I am among them, that desire to have foods made safe for >my consumption as well as that of my family. This is not to say that all of >society must adopt this methodology. But those who chose to have their food >treated that way should have a right of that choice. > >I hope that you agree. Additionally, I hope that I've given you sufficient >information to familiarize you with the process, albeit summarized. > >Vic Kach > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Mar 31 22:34:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09773 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:34:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA14845 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:28:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA14753 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:27:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA09884 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:27:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.79.178.184]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with ESMTP id <19990401022719.EPSD5645@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 02:27:19 +0000 Message-ID: <3702D9C5.10045730@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:28:21 -0500 From: Samuel Kaymen Reply-To: kaymen@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Inspired Sustainability Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EBE70E0738B4C481FD5EC209" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 280 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EBE70E0738B4C481FD5EC209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May I recommend this web site for your heart and mind. http://www.coopsports.com/cobbhill/#BriefHistory Samuel --------------EBE70E0738B4C481FD5EC209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Base: "http://www.coopsports.com/cobbhill/" Content-Location: "http://www.coopsports.com/cobbhill/" Cobb Hill Cohousing, Hartland, VT
COBB HILL

March 1999





This is an introduction to Cobb Hill - a cohousing community, research institute, and organic farm -- all experiments in sustainable living being created in Hartland, VT. We hope you will find this information useful for learning who we are, where were going, how far weve come, and how you might participate.

This Web Site is Sponsored by Cooperative Sports On-line Magazine.

You will find here:

How to get Acquainted With Members

Future Meeting Dates

1. Brief History

2. Vision

3. Purpose

4. Principles

5. Land and Design Plan

Clustered Housing Site Plan 
Common House Floor Plan (preliminary)
Photograph from High Pasture 
Before and After from Upper Pasture 
Photos: An autumn walk through the lower pastures 
Individual House Floor Plans (Please note these are preliminary designs)
6. The Sustainability Institute

7. Projected Timeline

8. Levels of Participation

9. List of Members

Related Sites

There are several ways to get better acquainted with the project and with members: (top)

  • Make contact with a member (see section 9 for phone numbers, etc.) to introduce yourself and ask questions. All of us welcome these inquiries and value new ideas and information.
  • Join our lively email list-serv, through which we discuss everything from the agenda for the next meeting to timely concerns and issues. To subscribe to this list, contact Mike Yacavone at mike@xeniumcorp.com. You can listen as long as you like, and are welcome to introduce yourself and pitch in on the conversation whenever you wish.
  • Come to an introductory meeting, designed to give newcomers a chance to visit Cobb Hill, walk on the land, view design plans, meet some of the decision partners and have your initial questions answered. These meetings will be planned as interest and schedules dictate.  To learn about the next introductory meeting, please call Beth Sawin at 802-436-1393 or email her (esawin@aol.com). See travel directions below.
  • Attend monthly community meetings, after you have attended an introductory meeting.  We use these to get better acquainted, conduct business, educate ourselves about sustainable community, and make decisions.  Sometimes we have presentations from architects, naturalists, planners, lawyers, etc.  We take time on meeting days for conversation, outdoor exercise and potluck meals.

Meeting Dates for 1999 are: (top)

 
Sunday, January 10 Sunday, May 16 Sunday, September 19
Saturday, February 13 Saturday, June 12  Saturday, October 9
Sunday, March 14 Sunday, July 11 Sunday, November 14
Saturday, April 10 Saturday, August 14 Saturday, December 11
Meetings are usually 9:30 to 4 or 5, followed by a pot-luck at the Kirns home.  In order to accommodate the number of people attending, we have started to meet in available public facilities in Hartland.  Please contact a DP for this information in the week of the meeting.

Directions to the Rice-Sawin and Kirn houses:

Exit 9 off Interstate 91 at Hartland/Windsor exit; follow signs RT12/RT5 North towards Hartland
At village of Hartland 3 Corners, turn left onto Route 12 towards Woodstock
Take second right after sign for Skunk Hollow Tavern onto Mace Hill Road; Pass Hunt farm with two silos on your left.
For Rice-Sawin home take first left after Hunt farm onto Spencer Meadow Road; their home is #13 a reddish-brown cape.
For Kirn home, continue on Mace Hill Road, which bends left at Y for about ½ mile to Kirn driveway on left
 

1. Brief History  (top)

Discussion about co-housing, community, and sustainability had been happening for some time among a group of people that includes several current Cobb Hill members and friends. Active search for land began in February 1996, and continued for 18 months, although the Curtis and Hunt farm properties in Hartland were found on the very first land search outing. Seeing this land gave concreteness to the vision of a cohousing community. People met to talk, walk the land, and figure out how to go about turning a vision into a reality. The Sustainability Institute was registered as a corporation and received nonprofit status from the IRS in 1997. In December 1997, The Sustainability Institute purchased the two Hartland farms. In 1998 we formed a limited liability company (LLC), hired a design team, chose a building site, started planning "sustainable systems," and wrestled with challenging budgets. Most importantly, we have started to get to know one another and to build the social structures through which we can work together to create our dream.

2. Vision (top)

Cobb Hill is an intentional community of people who want to explore the challenge of living in ways that are materially sufficient, socially and ecologically responsible, humanly rewarding, and satisfying to the soul. As a rural community, one of our interests is sustainable land management -- organic farming, ecological forestry, minimization of waste. Another interest is the skills of community: sharing, responsibility, compassion, communication, consensus building, conflict resolution, appreciation of diversity, and love. We believe that these skills are critically necessary to bring the larger society to sustainability and sufficiency, and we want to practice them to the best of our ability.

The lifestyle of the community will be frugal in terms of quantity, rich in terms of quality. It will strive for a sane balance between privacy and communality, labor and leisure, freedom and order. Decisions will be made by consensus and, insofar as possible, according to what will be best for the community, for the land and for the world over the long term.

Cobb Hill members will earn their living variously from the land, through work for the Sustainability Institute, through teaching or workshops inspired by the land, through arts or crafts based on the land, and through outside jobs. We will not be a non-profit organization; we will pay taxes to the town of Hartland and participate in town affairs. We will work toward self-sufficiency of food, water, energy, building materials, and waste-processing.

We expect that members will have a commitment to sustainability and community, responsibility to others, openness to learning, fiscal responsibility, and a willingness to do ones share of the work.

Each member household will own both a share in the commonly owned land and private equity in a living unit. Decisions about operating budgets, capital investments, resale, and land use will be made by the membership in a consensus process.

3. Purpose (top)

Community arises when individuals form a whole greater than the sum of its parts. Sustainability and community both require long-term thinking and a dedication to something larger than our narrowly defined selves. We have embarked on a journey toward sustainable living as a small community, because we feel that a small scale is necessary for learning and practicing the skills of cooperation and right livelihood.

This purpose statement lends guidance as we journey forward together. We intend to be guided by values and principles, rather than by expedience. This statement will always be under development, as our membership learns and evolves.

Our purpose is to learn, practice, and share the art of living sustainably, productively, joyfully, in ways that replenish ourselves, our communities, and the natural world, and that deepen our spiritual development and awareness.

We come to this venture with humility, acknowledging there is no single path to sustainability. We will pursue our path to the best of our ability, and refrain from judging those who explore other paths. We come willing to experiment, to tell the truth about our experiments, and to learn from our mistakes. We can't claim to follow the principles listed here perfectly. They point out the direction we want to take, not a place we have reached.

4. Principles (top)

UNITY
  • We will respect the beauty, sacredness, and interconnectedness of all life and the unity, power, and mystery of the universe. We will strive to reflect these truths in our lives, farm and community.
BEAUTY
  • In our physical structures and our work with the land we will strive to create the kind of beauty that comes from mindfulness, holism, and elegant simplicity.
  • We will work with native and sustainably harvested materials and energy sources, and with designs appropriate to a rural Vermont setting.
  • We will think on the scale of the whole landscape and the long term.
  • We recognize the beauty of loving relationships as well as the physical beauty of buildings and land.
COMMUNITY
  • We will found our actions on respect for ourselves, for each other, and for the biosphere.
  • We will find ways to work together that build on our diverse strengths.
  • We will identify and engage with our conflicts, while working toward solutions.
  • We will avoid isolation and indifference; participate fully; communicate honestly, patiently, and compassionately.
  • We will allow the many aspects of our personalities and talents to flourish, encouraging time spent in reflection, meditation, appreciating nature, and other creative pursuits.
  • We will take responsibility for our thoughts and actions, avoiding negative thinking and assumptions that lead us to create enemies. When tempted by distrust and fear, we will turn toward trust and love.
  • We will respect and support both individuals and families within the community.
  • We will ground ourselves in our own farm community and also participate in, learn from, and support the communities around us.
EQUITY
  • Our community will welcome people of all races, religions, ages, sexes, sexual orientations, and incomes.
  • We will not equate peoples worth with the dollar amount they can command in the market. We will assume that each persons time, independence, obligations, and pleasures are neither more nor less important than each other persons.
  • We aspire to right livelihood, practicing integrity in our dealings with people, nature, and money.
  • We will live simply, acknowledging that material simplicity often requires a commitment to complex solutions.
  • We will strive to satisfy our non-material needs non-materially.
  • SUSTAINABILITY
  • To the fullest extent possible, we will derive our physical and spiritual sustenance from the local land and people.
  • We will use natural resources -- such as soil, forest, and water -- with high efficiency, in ways that enhance their purity and productivity.
  • We will make decisions based on the long term well-being of the land and its human and non-human inhabitants.
  • We will work together to care for the land, the common buildings and the shared resources of the community.
  • We will experiment with techniques and technologies to find more sustainable ways of living. We will share our successes and failures honestly and actively engage with others working toward sustainability.
  • Finally, since the world often tells us we must sacrifice one of the above values in order to achieve another, we need to affirm our belief that over the long term and in the widest context all values do reinforce each other.
  • SYNERGY
  • When physical, monetary, or time limitations seem to imply the need to compromise any of these values, we will use that apparent dilemma as an indicator that we need to look more deeply, to slow down and center ourselves, to find ways to simplify, share, or extend our time or space horizons, in order to discover the natural synergy that makes all values rise or fall together.
  • 5. Land and Buildings (top)

    Cobb Hill is located in the Upper Valley region of the Connecticut River valley, about a 20-minute drive south (on Interstate 91 or Route 5) of Hanover and Lebanon, N.H. and White River Junction, Vermont.

    We have purchased two adjoining former dairy farms, each 120-140 acres, in Hartland Four Corners, one of the villages that comprise the town of Hartland, Vermont. The Hunt farm, with the farmhouse just half a block from the village, has barns and silos, 12 acres of prime farm land, high pastures with beautiful views, and a large regenerating forest. The Curtis farm, more remote from the village, has a house, barn, and outbuildings, another 10 acres of bottom land, more pastures, a mature forest (including a 1000-maple sugarbush), and a small stream and pond. Both farms are on east-facing slopes of a north-south valley. The Hunt house, built in the 1930s, is plain and solid; the Curtis house is an old, charming, Vermont cape.

    The farms became ours on December 1, 1997. The Curtis house and 2 acres of land has been sold to a member family of our community, with repurchase rights. The Hunt house is now rented to another member family, while we design and build our new homes and common house. When this is accomplished, the Hunt house will become the Sustainability Institute office.

    We have sufficient land for the construction of 20-22 housing units (tightly clustered) plus a common house -- and for serious farming and forestry, not only to provision ourselves, but also for some of us to make a living from the land. We will protect the open land with permanent conservation easements.

    On our substantial acreage, we have chosen a building site which is close to the village neighborhood and low on a hillside, where water is abundant and soils are good. Though we value privacy and will design for it, we also want to be part of the larger community, open to people who want to work or visit with us. We imagine a farmstand, craft workshops, educational and recreational activities that will enable us to participate in life with the larger local and Upper Valley community.

    It will take us 3 years to qualify the farms for organic certification. For the first two of those years, we will not try to farm in Hartland; we will just work organic matter into the fields, do soil tests, and bring the land into fitness. We are working out procedures for sugaring, grazing, and other land-management issues during these transition years.

    We have chosen a team of professionals to help us site, design, engineer, and permit a 20 unit housing development. The chief architect is Jeff Schoellkopf of Warren VT; our energy systems consultant is Marc Rosenbaum of Plainfield NH. Decisions to date include:

    • A common house with kitchen and dining room, childrens play space, apartments for residents who will use the common kitchen and dining room, and guest rooms.
    • Homes will be clustered on the hillside near the common house to minimize land impact, to emphasize community, and to realize savings from community-level water, sewage, and heating systems.
    • Less road and car space and more shared outdoor space, such as courtyards or "town greens," where people can gather and children can play safely.
    • Design of homes and the common house with the best energy and water efficiencies and green materials we can afford. We will experiment with sustainability technologies (e.g. composting toilets and solar hot water) to the extent we can afford them and obtain permits for them.
    • High-quality, durable, beautiful construction. Thoughtful landscaping that respects the natural beauty of the hillside and woods.
    • Relatively small homes, counting on the common space as an extension of our homes for such activities as some common cooking and meals, laundry, childrens play space, guest quarters, library, indoor exercise (yoga, dance), crafts and carpentry, and big-item storage (canoes, bicycles, etc.)
    • Variation in home designs to accommodate families of various sizes and needs, with common features agreed upon by all, to allow economies of scale as well as a coherent appearance.
     We are working out agreements to assure each family will have equity in its private house plus a share in the land and the common house. We have formed a limited liability company (LLC) to oversee design, permitting, and construction. All decision partners become members of the LLC when they buy into the community. When construction is finished, the LLC will sell the property to a homeowners association (also made up of all decision partners) and go out of existence.

    The homeowners association will manage the common property and enforce governing rules decided upon by the community. We dont know yet whether this will be a coop, a condominium, a community land trust, or some other legal form.

    We will consider developing the farm as a number of separate small businesses, perhaps working toward a single cooperative business. We plan to establish our own mortgage fund.
     

    5A Individual House Floor Plans

    These were first posted on this page December 9, 1998.

    6. Sustainability Institute (top)

    The Sustainability Institute is a nonprofit think/do tank devoted to analysis, planning, and communication that furthers sustainable, equitable, and sufficient societies in all parts of the world. Its central strength is top-quality systems thinking, supplemented with dynamic modeling and excellent numerical analysis. The Institute will assemble expertise in sustainable management of resources, especially water, land, forests, energy, people and synergistic systems.

    The Institute is working on the "big picture." Cobb Hill will work on the practical implementation of that picture in one particular place. The Institute and community will constantly inform each other. For more information write to: Sustainability Institute, PO Box 174, Hartland Four Corners, VT 05049.

    7. Projected Timeline (top)

    • Fall 1998 -- Site design, hydrology, well-drilling, engineering design.
    • Winter 1998-99 -- Act 250 (Vermonts land use law) permitting, water supply permitting, sewage discharge permitting.
    • Winter 1998-99 -- Detailed design for common house and individual homes. Secure construction loan, select construction company.
    • Late Spring-Fall 1999 -- Construction. Set up mortgage fund. Finalize legal documents for homeowners association. Finalize land easements.
    • Late 1999/Early 2000 -- LLC sells property to homeowners association. MOVE IN!!

    8. Levels of participation (top)

    Decision Partners (DPs)

    Decision partners have become members of Cobb Hill and of the LLC. Each current DP household has made a $20,000 commitment to the LLC to fund design and permitting costs. A similar commitment is expected from each new DP household. This payment is fully at risk.

    Individual or families who wish to become decision partners will take the following steps, as have present decision partners:

    1. Consult with a current decision partner to explore interest in Cobb Hill membership. Identify that family to become your contact/mentor/sponsor and to help you schedule next steps. We encourage interested people to participate actively in community and committee meetings and tasks as a way to get to know other members and to become known to members.
    2. Meet with members of the Finance Committee to talk over the financial obligations of participation. We are eager to accommodate a variety of financial situations, while ensuring the financial health of the community.
    3. Through your contact family, schedule a "clearness" meeting with the decision partners. Clearness meetings are inspired by the Quaker tradition; they involve quiet conversation and silence as a way for all to explore interest, concerns, opportunities, questions and, finally, the wisdom of taking this step into full commitment.
    Consulting Partners (CPs)

    Consulting partners are those who are interested in Cobb Hill though not ready to commit to membership. They participate actively in monthly meetings and are involved in committees and other work. They have significant influence on decisions.

    Consulting partners are asked to contribute $250/year/household, which will be included in their contribution to Cobb Hill common costs if they decide to commit, but is otherwise non-refundable.

    Interested People

    Anyone who is interested is invited to get to know the Cobb Hill community by following the email conversations, coming to an introductory meeting, and thereafter attending community meetings.  There is no charge for this participation.

    Investors

    We welcome dialogue with persons who may be able and willing to invest substantial funds in the Cobb Hill pooled mortgage fund, which will be developed at a reasonable rate of interest.

    9. List of Members - Decision Partners (top)

     
    Judith and Phil Bush
    RR1, Box 338
    Sharon, Vt. 05065
    802-763-7160
    philip.bush@dartmouth.edu
    jbush@together.net
    Judith was until recently a social worker at Casey Family Services. She left this long-time job in January 1998 to find ways to combine old and current interests in new ventures. Phil is finance director at NH - Dartmouth Psychiatric Research Center; grew up on a small farm; is "a guitarist/gardener who talks to cats and likes math."
    Peter and Ann Forbes
    Route 1, Box 24
    Canaan, NH 03741
    603-523-9049
    Ann.Forbes@dartmouth.edu
    Peter.Forbes@tpl.org

    Willoughby, born April 1998

    Peter is New England coordinator for Trust for Public Land and a photographer. Ann is an anthropologist writing about land/community relationships in Nepal, and an adjunct professor in the Environmental Studies Program at Dartmouth. Both are involved in the Center for the Good Life project arising from the legacy of Helen and Scott Nearing
    Edie Farwell and Jay Mead
    638 17th Ave.
    San Francisco CA 94121
    H 415-668-9014
    W 415-561-6100 X 120 (Edie)
    efarwell@apc.org

    Cedar (4) and Silas (born Jan 1998)

    Edie administers the Association for Progressive Communication, a worldwide network of environmental and other progressive organizations, seeking to communicate and work together. Jay is an artist, art teacher, carpenter, and practitioner of street theater and puppetry. Also a core member of Live Power CSA and Argonne Community Garden.
    Both are Dartmouth grads.
    Ellen Furnari and Jan Passion
    129 Shady Nook Lane 
    St. George VT 05495-8034
    802-482-2023
    FurnariE@aol.com
    JanPassion@aol.com

    Serena and Rachelle - ages 15 & 19 
     

     

    Ellen is currently consulting on various sustainability and philanthropic projects. She was formerly the director of the Ben & Jerry's Foundation and the Center For a New American Dream, as well as a psychotherapist. Jan, recently back from a six month spiritual retreat is a psychotherapist in private practice. He has dreams of someday working in areas of global conflict. He enjoys sailing, yoga, raquet ball and volunteering on the local rescue squad. Jan and Ellen are members of Servas International and host refugees awaiting sanctuary in Canada.
    Marie and Art Kirn
    RR1, Box 271
    Hartland VT 05048
    HT 802-436-1036
    WT (Marie) 802-295-2604
    marie.kirn@hitchcock.org
    Marie is director of Hospice VNH, a visiting nurse program that serves 71 towns in the Upper Valley. Art has retired from consulting and business to pursue his interest in the arts. Along with Dana Meadows, the Kirns are the opera buffs of the community.
    Stephen Leslie and Kerry Gawalt
    PO Box 58
    Plainfield NH 03781
    603-675-2230
     
     

     

    Horse farmers, have farmed in NY state, Montana, and Idaho, now run a market garden in Plainfield NH.
    Stephen has interests in yoga, art, and writing in addition to farming.
    Kerry grew up at Hawthorne Valley farm in NY State.
    They are now living at Foundation Farm (Dana's place) with 2 Norwegian Fjord horses, 1 dog, 2 cats.
    Donella H. (Dana) Meadows
    PO Box 58
    95 Daniels Road
    Plainfield NH 03781
    HT 603-675-2230
    HF 603-675-6305
    WT 603-646-1233
    WF 603-646-1682
    d.meadows@dartmouth.edu
    Farmed organically and communally for 25 years in Upper Valley (sheep, chickens, ducks, geese, fruit, veggies, flowers).
    Teaches part-time at Dartmouth
    Writes environmental newspaper column
    Organizes international environmental network (the Balaton Group)
    Phil Rice and Beth Sawin
    13 Spencer Meadow
    Hartland, Vermont
    HT 802-436-1393
    philiprice@aol.com
    esawin@aol.com

    Jenna, 17 months old.
     

    Both biologists; Phil recently led a research team at a biotech firm, Beth completed her PhD at MIT. Both now work for the Sustainability Institute on commodity modeling and environmental education.
    Avid gardeners, working for FI*,

    * (FI=financial independence, as defined in the book Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin)

    Don Seville
    421 Walden Street
    Cambridge MA 02138
    HT 617-864-2779
    WT 617-876-3697
    fax 617-658-2010
    dseville@aol.com
    Master's in system dynamics from MIT.
    Own consulting practice.
    Especially good at designing user-interfaces and management games. Working for the Sustainability Institute on community growth modeling and forest product industry modeling.

    Decision Partners-in-Waiting (going through the process of becoming DPs) (top)

     
    Delia Clark and Tim Traver
    PO Box 45
    Taftsville VT 05073
    HT 802-457-4886/2075
    Tim at VINS 802-457-2779
    deliapc@aol.com

    Kal 14, Mollie 10, Toben 8

    Delia coordinates the Valley 2000& Beyond Project and teaches community planning at Antioch College
    Tim is director of the Vermont Institute of Natural Science
    Peter Kawecki and Jane Olds
    PO Box 181
    Hartland Four Corners VT 05049
    802-436-1039
    petek@valley.net

    5 children, ages 7-18. Clara, Sam, 
    David, Teresa, Leon (in ascending order)

    Peter teaches part-time at Vermont Technical College. Jane is a self-employed physical therapist. The family is currently living in the Hunt farmhouse.
     

     

    Sophie and Matt Starr
    668 Coventry Road
    Berkeley, CA 94707
    510-525-7364
    allstarrs4@aol.com

    Lucas (12/25/93) and Casey (4/98)
     

    Sophie is a self employed landscaper, pre school volunteer teacher, and fulltime mom. Interests include interior design, flowers, gardening, backpacking, kayaking, and yoga. 
    Matt is an elementary school teacher, now teaching third grade, finishing up his masters thesis on progressive literacy models. He enjoys outdoor sports, vegetable gardening, yoga, writing, and being a dad. Travel is a family passion. They recently returned from a year of life overseas, spent mostly in Indonesia and Asia, in time to rest up for the birth of Baby Casey.
    (top)
     

    Related Sites

    Sustainable Living Network, an informal affiliation of people in the United States and around the world
    who seek to deepen their understanding and practice of sustainable living.

    This page has been visited (the hit count)   times since 11/19/98. --------------EBE70E0738B4C481FD5EC209-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 06:58:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA14786 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:58:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA00688 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:05:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA00601 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:05:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp204.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.204]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id HAA24482 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 07:08:49 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 07:07:21 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN3-30; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 282 [Reposted with permission] Thanks to Judy Kew for posting the following: [The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition] Dow Jones Newswires -- March 25, 1999 Dow Jones Newswires U.S. Awareness Slowly Growing Of EU Biotech Crop Concerns By DANIEL ROSENBERG Dow Jones Newswires CHICAGO -- With Europe increasingly reluctant to import genetically modified crops, U.S. farm groups and the U.S. Department of Agriculture are taking steps to raise producers' awareness. However, many U.S. farmers don't realize the extent of Europe's concerns, processors and producers say. "I'm afraid there's a disconnect - farmers don't see the tie between the decisions they make and foreign markets," said Dave Erickson, a corn and soybean farmer in Altoona, Ill. Last week, the National Corn Growers Association warned farmers to "get the facts" before they plant genetically modified seeds not approved for export to the European Union. "If the biotech hybrid you plant isn't approved for export, take the necessary steps to keep harvested grain in the domestic distribution chain and out of export channels," the NCGA said on its web site. The sole variety of U.S. genetically modified soybeans - Monsanto's "Roundup Ready" - has E.U. approval. But many European consumers aren't convinced about the safety of any genetically modified products, even those approved by the E.U., the American Soybean Association acknowledged. ....... Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) News Release 29 March 1999 http://www.rafi.org ** TRAITOR TECHNOLOGY: "Damaged Goods" from the Gene Giants ** ------------------------------------------------------- New report from RAFI details over 2 dozen "Terminator II" patents that link suicide seeds to proprietary chemicals, genetically-weakened plants, and the patented power to make genetically-inviable plants rise from the dead. ------------------------------------------------------- Beyond the prognostications of even its most pessimistic critics, Terminator science is snowballing into the corporate profit centre of the next decade and beyond. And, if the major seed and agrochemical multinationals have their way, Terminator and Traitor (negative trait) technologies will come on the heels of the new millennium to a farm near you. RAFI's Executive Director Pat Mooney declares, "With this report and our previous work on the Terminator, RAFI is sounding the alarm that without government action, these technologies will be commercialized within a few years with potentially disastrous consequences." Says RAFI Programme Officer Edward Hammond, "Since we discovered the original Terminator patent a year ago, even at our most pessimistic we never forecast negative trait genetic engineering to explode as quickly as it has." Most observers thought there would be a delay of two or three years before second and third generation Terminator refinements were patented; but instead says Hammond, "a survey of patent offices reveals that the cat is completely out of the bag. In fact, the original Terminator may be a dead letter because enhanced Terminator seeds are already in the laboratory." RAFI reports that every Gene Giant multinational has patented, or admits it is working on genetically-sterilized or chemically-dependent seeds. RAFI's report provides details and analysis on over two dozen such patents recently obtained by 12 institutions. The patents seek to exploit - or could exploit - new genetic engineering techniques that use inducible promoters to disable critical plant functions governing reproduction, disease resistance, and seed viability. If commercialization of such seeds proceeds, farmers worldwide will be tangled in an expensive web of chemicals, intellectual property, and disabled germplasm that leads to bioserfdom. The technology spells disaster for farmers and global food security because over three quarters of the world's farmers - mainly poor farmers - depend on farm saved seed. The complete removal of farmers from the age-old process of plant breeding through sterilized seed could also signify a disastrous narrowing of the genepool on which everyone depends for food security. SCARY SCOPE: According to RAFI's Research Director Hope Shand, "The patents describe the use of external chemicals to turn on and off genetic traits in plants and go well beyond DeltaPine's original 'Terminator' patent. They are techniques to control a wide variety of 'input' and 'output' (production and processing) traits by spraying with proprietary herbicides or fertilizers. Others take us beyond crop plants to the use of Terminator-style tactics on insects and even possibly mammals." KILLER GENES, JUNKIE SEEDS, AND MODERN-DAY "MIRACLES": Some patents aim to switch the plant's germination on or off. AstraZeneca's Verminator patents use what it calls 'killer genes' for this purpose. Yet AstraZeneca has been telling governments, scientists, and the press that despite their continuing pursuit of its patents around the world, they won't stop farmers from saving seed. RAFI's Pat Mooney says, "Something didn't add up, so we set out to investigate." Newly discovered patent claims explain the confusing AstraZeneca position. The new patents refine AstraZeneca's "Verminator" technology that links plant growth and germination to repeated application of proprietary chemicals. Without specific patented chemicals, the plant doesn't grow. "Essentially," says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "they're talking about the manufacture of junkie plants that are physically dependent on a patented chemical cocktail." AstraZeneca says it will patent the technology in 77 countries. See AstraZeneca's Verminator II patent: http://wo.dips.org/search97cgi/s97is.dll?Action=ViewViewTemplate=ep/en/view er.h ts&SearchType=4&VdkVgwKey=9735983 Says RAFI's Mooney, "So, you see AstraZeneca and the other Gene Giants don't want farmers to buy new seed every year so much as to force them to repurchase their old seed." Monsanto is already pioneering such 'pay by the generation' techniques through legal means - the infamous grower agreements - in the US and Canada; but research is steering toward biological means of achieving the same sad end. Mooney says "It will be vastly more profitable for multinationals to sell seeds programmed to commit suicide at harvest so that farmers must pay the company to obtain the chemicals to have them re-activated for the next planting - either through a seed conditioning process or through the purchase of a specialized chemicals that bring saved seed back to life, Lazarus-style." "In effect, this shifts all the seed costs to farmers, and the companies won't have to multiply, ship, and warehouse massive seed stocks," Hammond adds, "As the seed oligopoly strengthens, companies will have less and less incentive to invest in plant breeding research, after all they'll already have the farmers in a position of utter dependency." Pat Mooney agrees, "With these 'Lazarus-link seeds' the advertising investment will continue but the research investment will wither away." GENETIC MUTILATION: An especially disturbing feature of some of the new patents profiled in RAFI's report is the deliberate disabling of natural plant functions that help to fight disease. Swiss biotech giant Novartis is most advanced in this aspect of Traitor technology. Novartis blandly refers to it as "inactivation of endogenous regulation" so that "genes which are natively regulated can be regulated exclusively by the application to the plant of a chemical regulator." Among the genes which Novartis can control in this manner are patented SAR (systemic acquired resistance) genes which are critical to plant's ability to fight off infections from many viruses and bacteria. Thus, Novartis has patented techniques to create plants with natural healthy functions turned off. "The only way to turn them back on and fix these 'damaged goods' " says RAFI's Edward Hammond, "is, well, you guessed it, the application of a propietary chemical." See the Novartis antisense regulation of SAR systems patent: http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1& u=/n etahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,650,505'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,650,505&RS=PN/5 ,650 ,505 TIGHT-LIPPED MONSANTO: Caught like a deer in the headlights during recent battles over genetically-modified plants - especially in Europe - Monsanto has sought to deflect questions and criticism about Terminator technology by saying that the Terminator belongs to its soon-to-be subsidiary Delta and Pine Land Company. As such, the oft-repeated PR position goes, Monsanto doesn't yet have access to the Terminator and can't inform concerned governments and people about plans for Terminator seed. "It's been their mantra across the world." says RAFI's Mooney, "We've heard the same confusing statements from Monsanto representatives in New Zealand, India, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Brazil, the EU, and the US." Even last week, at a Harvard University presentation, Monsanto's representative similarly shrugged off the question. "In fact," says RAFI's Mooney, "it's a deliberate ploy - or, at best, incomplete information - that obfuscates facts about the company's own research agenda. Monsanto already has its own in-house, patented Terminator technology, which it says it will patent in a whopping 89 countries. Obviously, the company is not being forthright. If Monsanto doesn't start coming clean, it risks further damage to its already tarnished image." See Monsanto's Terminator II patent: http://wo.dips.org/search97cgi/s97is.dll?Action=ViewViewTemplate=ep/en/view er.h ts&SearchType=4&VdkVgwKey=9744465 WILL TERMINATOR WORK? RAFI notes that some plant scientists are skeptical that Traitor Technology will work successfully in the field. Monsanto, one of the original Traitor Tech proponents, is encouraging this view. There is no doubt that Traitor Tech will be continually refined as it moves toward the market; but terminator plants are already in the greenhouse and profit estimates are being calculated. "It's only a matter of time. Every major pesticide-producing Gene Giant is hard at work perfecting the technology." Shand adds, "Companies don't patent for the fun of the paperwork and paying lawyer's fees. Those who think corporations will drop the Terminator - or think it won't make it to market - are living in Fantasyland. There's too much money to be made. Unless it is banned by governments, Terminator is going to happen, and probably sooner rather than later." WILL FARMERS BUY IT? Delta & Pine Land and Monsanto insist that no one will force farmers to buy Terminator seed. The real question is, will farmers have a choice? The commercial seed industry is imploding, and a handful of Gene Giants already control a rapidly expanding share of major seed markets. After DuPont announced earlier this month that it would buy Pioneer Hi-Bred, the world's largest seed company, the Wall Street Journal concluded that the deal "effectively divides" most of the US seed industry between DuPont and Monsanto. With the disappearance of public sector plant breeders, farmers are becoming increasingly vulnerable and have fewer choices in the marketplace. TERMINATING THE TERMINATOR: RAFI and its partners around the world are contacting governments asking them to declare all of the Terminator-style patent claims as contrary to ordre public. In January, Global Response (a US based non-profit organization) encouraged its 4,000 members in forty countries to write to the Director-General of FAO asking him to oppose the Terminator as a matter of world food security. FAO has replied that governments may take up the issue in Rome April 19 to 23 during the meeting of the FAO Commission on Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture. RAFI will be at that meeting and will make a presentation to governments. Further, concerned individuals from 71 countries have sent almost 7,000 letters to US Agriculture Secretary Glickman asking him to ban the Terminator. Although global opposition is mounting, RAFI worries that the UN's Biodiversity Convention may go "soft" on the environmental and social implications of the technology. When the Convention meets in Montreal in June, it is to receive a scientific study on Terminator. "We will read and respond to that study very quickly," Pat Mooney advises. ------ For further information: Website: http://www.rafi.org Pat Roy Mooney, Executive Director, RAFI 110 Osborne Street South, Suite 202 Winnipeg, MB, R3L 1Y5 CANADA Tel: +1 204 453-5259 Fax: +1 204 925-8134 E-mail: rafi@rafi.org Hope Shand, Research Director, RAFI Tel: +1 717 337-6482 Fax: +1 717 337-6499 E-mail: hope@rafi.org Edward Hammond, Programme Officer, RAFI Tel: +1 206 323-7378 Fax: +1 206 323-6052 E-mail: hammond@rafi.org _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 09:35:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16643 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:35:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA01994 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:29:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web611.mail.yahoo.com (web611.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.178]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA01894 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:29:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19990401133002.24983.rocketmail@web611.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.82.101] by web611.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 01 Apr 1999 05:30:02 PST Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:30:02 -0800 (PST) From: Kate Smith Subject: 'Biodevastation 3' -- Corrected Dates To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 283 Saneteers, I have a backlog of unread SANET digests so if someone already posted this information, sorry. Kate P.S. naos (north american organic study) is about to enter the third round of objective building. Always more room in the loop if you want to join. just send me an email. > --- Brian Tokar wrote: > > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:50:46 -0500 > > To: ban@tao.ca, gegan@egroups.com > > From: Brian Tokar > > Subject: 'Biodevastation 3' -- Corrected Dates > > > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > BIODEVASTATION 3 to be in SEATTLE, WEDNESDAY AND > > THURSDAY, MAY 19-20 > > (during the time of BIO 99): > > > > The Edmonds Institute and the Washington > > Biotechnology Action Council are > > acting as hosts for this third in a continuing > series > > of gatherings about > > genetic engineering around the world. The first two > > were in St. Louis and > > New Delhi. > > > > Co-sponsors to date are NERAGE (Northeast Resistance > > Against Genetic > > Engineering),the Council for Responsible Genetics, > > the Institute for > > Agriculture and Trade Policy, and anyone else who > > wants to add their > > organizational name to the list (The only cost is > > that you must promise to > > send out the announcement to all your friends and > > lists.). > > > > The schedule is still firming up but it looks like a > > teach-in with strategy > > sessions. At this point we have promises from > > Professor Martha Crouch ("How > > the Terminator Terminates..."), Elaine Ingham (the > > scientist who shared with > > us all the problems with Klebsiella planticola, a > > genetically engineered > > microorganism that might have spelled the end of > > agriculture), Brian Tokar > > (Z man from the Institute for Social Ecology), > > Brewster (newest book: > > "Farmageddon") and Cathleen (co-editor of The Ram's > > Horn and organizer > > of community food councils across Canada) Kneen, Dr. > > Michael Hanson (from > > Consumer Union's Consumer Policy Institute - the guy > > who fights rBGH, > > mad cows, and most of the insanity in our food > > system), and Phil Bereano > > (activist professor, expert in genetic > > discrimination, who's been > > fighting techno-insanity for a long time while also > > working with the > > American Civil Liberties Union). Also highly likely > > to be in attendance are > > Ronnie Cummins (the Safe Food Guardian of Global > Days > > of Action and editor > > of Food Bytes) and Andy Kimbrell (lawyer > > extraordinaire whose organization > > and terrific staff are currently waging battle > > against BT crops, > > bioprospecting in Yellowstone, unlabelled G-E food, > > and..well, it's a big > > list). > > > > Currently being enticed to join us: Mitchell Cohen > > (Green Person of Brooklyn > > and Paris and all places where the Red Balloon can > > fly) and a few choice > > others. > > > > There will be NO charge for the event (and we'll > even > > throw in a free lunch > > both days). > > > > So mark your calendar, call your Seattle friends, > and > > tell 'em you're coming > > to visit May 19 and 20. > > > > More details forthcoming soon. If you want to > > co-sponsor or pre- > > register to ensure space, send in your request to > > beb@igc.org. > > > > We expect a big crowd. BIODEVASTATION 3 coincides > > with BIO 99, the > > biotech industry's annual convention, also in > Seattle > > this year. > > To pre-register, email beb@igc.org. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > === ------------------ Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 609-234-9200 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 14:30:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24292 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:30:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA15122 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:25:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15067 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:25:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:28:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Ten Years of SARE on the Web (continued) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:28:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 284 Colleagues: This month we continue our chapter-by-chapter posting of Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress. It is available on the Web at http://www.sare.org/san/10yrsofsan/ OR go to our home page and click on SARE: Ten Years and Counting... http://www.sare.org Ten Years of SARE showcases accomplishments of a unique USDA program that has made a difference in the lives of farmers and ranchers across the United States and Island Protectorates. To select a group of innovative, interesting and impactful projects, SARE staff chose one project from each of its four regions for the following 10 categories: Crop Production, Animal Production, Natural Resource Protection, Marketing, Community Development, Education, Pest Management, Horticulture, Professional Development, and Integrated Farm/Ranch Systems. One of the 10 categories will be highlighted each month. April Highlight: Marketing. For a free print version, contact Abiola Adeyemi in my office (301-504-6422 or aadeyemi@nal.usda.gov). Be sure to send your mailing address. Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 14:40:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24655 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:40:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24491 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:41:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24452 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:41:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23103 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:47:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27441 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:41:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:41:05 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <37030B91.2C176531@vsnl.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 285 On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Ambe wrote: > We have all been talking about 'organic' agriculture. What about the > pesticides that we would be using? I think we're trying to forget them. > Regards, > Ashish Isn't that something they smoke in Amsterdam? Humor the spelling impaired. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 15:31:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25998 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:31:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA27660 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:36:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27630 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:35:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:38:46 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Organic Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:38:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 286 -----Original Message----- From: ARS News Service [mailto:isnv@ars-grin.gov] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 9:47 AM To: ARS News List Subject: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks STORY LEAD: Growers' Group to Work With USDA Seed Banks ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA March 25, 1999 Jim De Quattro, (301) 504-1626, jdequattro@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- A budding cooperative project of researchers, organic growers and others that begins this week could help replenish the nation's seed banks. More important, it could create market opportunities for new public and heirloom crop varieties. The Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency, maintains the National Plant Germplasm System. Its 27 repositories now hold about 437,000 specimens of germplasm--seed, cuttings and other tissue. Thousands of accessions are added each year. Researchers worldwide use the germplasm to breed crops with improved yield, nutrition, resistance to pests, disease and environmental stress or other traits. ARS is cooperating with the Farmer Cooperative Genome Project to test a new way for organic growers, farmer cooperatives and small seed companies to tap into this storehouse of genetic diversity. FCGP members will grow fresh supplies of germplasm, following NPGS guidelines. These ensure, for example, that regenerated seed is true to type--not contaminated by pollen from nearby crops of the same species. FCGP members will also develop marketable new varieties from germplasm they may never have known about otherwise. For example, an ARS repository in Corvallis, Ore., has more than 400 heirloom pear varieties. In Pullman, Wash., ARS maintains more than 200 lines of garlic. These represent most of the crop's genetic diversity. Only a few varieties account for nearly all commercial production, according to horticulturist Richard Hannan. He's based at ARS' Western Regional Plant Introduction Station in Pullman. On March 27-28 in Salem, Ore., Hannan, Corvallis ARS plant pathologist Joseph Postman and other scientists are among scheduled panelists at FCGP's first general meeting. Other plants with FCGP potential include heirloom varieties and wild relatives of tomato, lettuce, bean, broccoli, Egyptian onion, radish, blue and other Native American corn, blackberry, strawberry, Turkish grain legumes and little-known herbs such as black cumin. More than 200 small family farmers, organic farmers, seed producers, breeders and others will participate in FCGP, according to J.J. Haapala. He is research and education director of Oregon Tilth, a growers' group in Salem that certifies organic growers and processors. Haapala administers a USDA Fund for Rural America grant to the FCGP. ---------- Scientific contact: Richard M. Hannan, ARS Western Regional Plant Introduction Station, Pullman, Wash., phone (509) 335-1502, fax (509) 335-6654, hannan@wsunix.wsu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 16:23:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27268 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:23:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA22773 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:20:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA22701 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:20:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool045-max10.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.195]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id H0N9PYP6; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:25:15 -0500 Message-ID: <3703D442.724F09A@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 12:17:06 -0800 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #939 References: <199903312310.SAA12270@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 287 The major problem with irradiation lies not in its safety, but in the fact that it is just a tool that allows mega agribusiness to run huge opperations it levels of cleanliness and safety that none of us would ever want to work in, but that will pull their employees soley from the ranks of immigrants and extremely poor. It will no longer matter if food is kept clean for safety, as IBP will just irradiate the e-coli infected burgers, rather than preventing the infection in the first place. If you want to ensure a high quality food product, the solution is not to boil the spoiling milk, thereby making it safe (but not quality) for human consumption, but to sell the milk locally and make that which you cannot into cheese, yoghurt, etc- items that provide safe storage. I have no problem with pasturization, but i do have a problem with companies like kraft storing raw milk for weeks in milk silos, and when it is to contaminated to pass of as milk, or even as easy cheese , making it into powdered "parmesan". The solution to guarrentee safe quality product is to purchase it from some one you know, some one that will be personally effected if you get sick. Buy your meats from a local grazier, have them cut and packaged by your area butcher, and i guarrentee that if you prepare them well, they will be healthier, safer, and tasteir than any meat you ever get at the store- this is doubly true for vegetables- go buy organics from your local farmers' market- go visit the farm- buy your spices in smaller quantities- why do you need to have a package of nutmeg for 1 year oxidising and losing quality- neverming 10- if you are worried about bugs in your flour or dried goods- then buy less, and freeze them when necessary- no body has ever made any claims that NASA's food tastes good, and you'ld be hard pressed to find a French chef that prefered irradiated chicken breasts over fresh slaughtered chicken from the market- Alright i'll stop rambling- but i reitterate, the reason that i am opposed to irradiation in vegetables and meats is that i believe that it will only lead to more reckless abuses by american agribusiness- the one final question is- what do you think low level gama radiation does to complex chemical compound like pesticides and hormones? we have no idea, but given the amount that just sunlight changes such things, i dont have much faith... Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org Buy Local, Think Global To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 19:46:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA01636 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:46:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA08855 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:57:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA08732 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:56:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from p2 (ppp47-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.47]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA17400 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:57:43 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: RE: ecology and economic systems - page of links Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:06:59 +1000 Message-ID: <001001be7c9c$ba3795e0$2f3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 288 D.Parthasarathy wrote about: >Roberto Verzola. Ramachandra Guha and Madhav Gadgil, Ecology and Equity: The use and abuse of nature in contemporary India, (Routledge, 1995) which led me to search for these authors on the internet, which led me to a useful page of sustainable agriculture (and more) links, at http://ces.iisc.ernet.in/hpg/cesmg/tvrsusagri.html part of Mahdav Gadgil's web site. Dennis Argall To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 19:47:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA01657 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:47:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA02214 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:50:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from pobox1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.166.151]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA02154 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:50:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from lessing.oit.umass.edu (lessing.oit.umass.edu [128.119.166.128]) by pobox1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #37024) with ESMTP id <0F9J007E6BJ6P2@pobox1.oit.umass.edu> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (trf@localhost) by lessing.oit.umass.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA13174 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:50:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:50:19 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Fetter Subject: organic-approved fungicides for coffee fungi X-Sender: trf@lessing.oit.umass.edu To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: lessing.oit.umass.edu: trf owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 289 I'm looking for any information on "organic"-approved fungicides and/or cultural practices which will work against the following fungi: Mycena citricolor Hemileia vastarix If anyone has any information, or has any suggestions of where to find information, please let me know. Thanks, Rob Fetter ***************** T. Robert Fetter Research Assistant Dept. of Resource Economics Draper Hall University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 phone 413-545-5716 fax 413-545-5853 trf@student.umass.edu Check out the Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog at http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 19:50:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA01681 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA10228 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:01:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from rfd1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.175.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA10200 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:01:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from lessing.oit.umass.edu by rfd1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29083) with ESMTP id <0F9J00O35C1CRU@rfd1.oit.umass.edu> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (trf@localhost) by lessing.oit.umass.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA15154; Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:00:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:00:47 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Fetter Subject: Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog now online X-Sender: trf@lessing.oit.umass.edu To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, NEFOOD-L@SARDONYX.TUFTS.EDU, Food for Thought Mailing List , Ecol-Agric Mailing List Cc: Eric Toensmeier , Gita A Mann Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: lessing.oit.umass.edu: trf owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 290 If you want to be happy for a year, plant a garden. If you want to be happy for a lifetime, plant perennial vegetables... The 1999 Perennial Vegetable Seed Company catalog is now available on-line at http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html About PVSC: Our goal is to introduce the public to a diversity of perennial vegetables. These plants have mostly been neglected as food plants, because they do not fit well into annual cropping systems. However, many are low-maintenance, virtually trouble-free crops which provide food year after year! There are perennial vegetables for all occasions, from formal border and herb gardens, to the shade of fruit and nut trees, to naturalizing in your backyard prairie, forest, or wetland. A great diversity of perennial vegetable species exist. Some have been cultivated for centuries, some are wild, and some are only now being developed as crops. As PVSC grows, we will offer more and more species, many of which are not commercially available in North America. This year we are growing out improved Groundnut (Apios americana), as well as Sea Beet (Beta vulgaris maritima), the perennial ancestor of beets and chard, Turkish Rocket (Bunias orientalis), a tasty perennial mustard relative, and more. We are hot on the trail of perennial Brassica species, including perennial broccolis and kales, and their wild ancestor, perennial Wild Cabbage (Brassica oleracea). On the new website you can also find out about a special offer on _Edible Forest Gardens_, a new, comprehensive guide to perennial vegetables and perennial polyculture systems. ***************** T. Robert Fetter Research Assistant Dept. of Resource Economics Draper Hall University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 phone 413-545-5716 fax 413-545-5853 trf@student.umass.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 19:56:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA01742 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA06572 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:55:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA06500 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:55:01 -0500 (EST) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.2) id 7KRWa27351 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:54:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1f0096ea.24356125@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:54:13 EST Subject: T R A N S I T I O N S To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 215 Reply-To: Sprinkraft@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA06512 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 291 ACRES, USA: A Journal Of Regenerative Agriculture T R A N S I T I O N S by Steven Sprinkel Austin, Texas April 1999 GMO Showdown These may be the days long awaited and worked for: the genetically modified juggernaut has three wheels spinning in the mud and now, hopefully a bit too late, high-level salesmanship seeks to calm the trade and regulatory turmoil engendered overseas. Unless you are tuning into Hightower Radio, or subscribe to the Sanders County Ledger in Thompson Falls, Montana, those of us in the United States remain incredibly uninformed about the severe marketing and public policy problems biotech agriculture has provoked. In mid-March, National Public Radio aired what was nothing less than an infomercial for biotech agriculture, with so little program objectivity that most listeners might have mistaken the piece for a long Archer Daniels Midland promotional. However, a little light is streaming through chinks in the gleaming corporate armor: at the National Grain and Feed Association annual conference in San Francisco, Reuters reported that brokers were openly warned that US grain production will experience market unavailability because of consumer disaffection for GMO products, chiefly in Europe. On 18 March, the National Corn Growers Association (NCGA) warned farmers to "get the facts" before they plant genetically modified seeds not approved for export to the European Union. "If the biotech hybrid you plant is not approved for export, take the necessary steps to keep harvested grain in the domestic distribution chain and out of export channels," the NCGA advised on its web site. That will work until US consumers share the same concerns as those in Europe now do. In the EU and UK, market outlets are bowing to the consumer mandate to label GMO products at retail, and a Rothschilds Management equity trading subsidiary announced that it would close the biotechnology investment unit that was founded 18 years ago. The smartest money in Europe wont stash cash in the burn bin. In Scotland, Monsanto executive, Stephen Wildridge, was called to task over the often-repeated industry claim that "the benefits of GM food outweigh the risks" during a public presentation there. Alastair McIntosh, Fellow of the Centre for Human Ecology, asked Mr. Wildridge if his statement implied that Monsanto had " responsibly quantified those risks (because) society's definition of acceptable risk is that it is insurable risk." But when asked how and by whom such potential liability had been provided, (Monsantos) "Mr. Wildridge replied that this was a question for which he did not have an answer! In other words, he effectively admitted that the risks are externalized on to society and the earth's ecology. Shareholders reap the benefits on patented materials; the rest of us underwrite any costs." "What other industry (apart from the nuclear industry) would proceed without adequate product liability insurance? What better proof is there that Monsanto's "limited liability" corporate status ultimately means limited responsibility?" Such publicly reported confrontations are becoming more common. Some recent, choice international headlines: "Super-viruses Threat to Farms", "Monsanto Dairy Hormone May Be Carcinogenic Says EU Vet Committee", "Brazilian State Seeks Prohibition on GE Crops", "Corporate Power Silences rBGH Critics, Panel Says", " Mitsubishi to Source 350,000 tons of GE-free Soya", and from Washington, DC: "Judge Halts Monsantos Yellowstone "Bio-prospecting" PUT A PERIOD Perhaps most significantly, on March 30th, Daniel Rosenberg authored a summary article titled, "U.S. Awareness Slowly Growing Of EU Biotech Crop Concerns" for the Wall Street Journal. Two High Level US Studies Planned Dont break out the champagne just yet. Half the deck is yet to be dealt. On 25 March, the United States information Agency reported that USDA Secretary Dan Glickman is forming an Advisory Committee on Biotechnology to " study the role advanced genetic research can play in expanding food production and enhancing food security worldwide." While that carefully worded phrase looks like a cover-up in the making, why does it sound future-tense when 60 million acres are being planted to GMO crops in 1999? I sense a slight back-pedal, meant to cool out the inflamed Euros more than anything else. At the same time, the National Academy of Sciences formed another panel operating under the auspices of its National Research Council, to study the " benefits and potential risks of genetically engineered crops with an eye toward recommending changes in government regulations", as reported by Bill Lambrecht of the St. Louis Post Dispatch. The National Research Council study will be conducted over a six-month period, and will seek public input prior to releasing its report. Many observers feel that the results of the USDA and National Academy of Sciences/NRC investigations are foreordained to put an official stamp of approval on biotech, but I am not entirely certain. Certainly, the folks chosen to sit on these panels appear to have a pro-GMO industrial bias, however, their resulting declarations are going to have to square up against a lot of new scientific evidence and be defensible against antagonists claims that the original review methodology was inappropriate and that those who had the most to gain economically exerted unacceptable influence on regulators who then acted unethically. The work of these panels will not be kept secret; moreover, the intention seems to create a semblance of openness and objectivity. Social and economic concerns will for the first time be allowed a full hearing. The PR flacks at the EPA and the USDA are going to be sorely tested if they try to spin this. There is nothing to be gained by these institutions, from top to bottom, including the NAS, by propping up flawed science and salvaging the political relationships of a damaged US administration in the last year or so of its power. Therefore, we could expect some objectivity to win out. Working towards that end is essential. The two panels are partially comprised of tenured science dons who may conclude that their best endowment to history is to advise precaution in light of the field results which will be presented to them. It would also be appropriate for the Department of Justice to report on the anti-trust implications of seed monopolization and the emerging market verticality of food production. My perspective may seem too idealistic, but there will be an opportunity to slam the results later if they seem to be bought. A broad effort was underway in early April to change or add to the membership of the National Academy of Sciences committee, which should have been tested for conflict-of-interest before being chosen. As Illinois organic farmers Kevin and Juli Brussell recently said, "Who ever gets on the NAS panel better have the diplomacy of a devil and the sweet tongue of an angel to get these people to understand the impacts on everything from marketing to varietal purity." A Potential Legacy In a recent open letter to USDA Secretary Dan Glickman, Dr. Jim Home, president of the Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture in Poteau, Oklahoma, asked him to consider USDAs future " as the peoples department" in light of the current farm crisis, and the momentum to further industrialize agriculture. Dr. Home asks Mr. Glickman to end USDAs policies which promote industrial agriculture and to re-orient the USDA towards truly sustainable agriculture particularly by funding it better, through research and education. "Something is wrong," Dr. Home wrote, " when the Kerr Center, a rather modest institution from a small state, itself devotes to sustainable agriculture the equivalent of what the gigantic USDA spends!" For more information: If Dan Glickman wants to be remembered for having done something great as Secretary of Agriculture, he may choose to fight for farmers rather than agribusiness and the monopolistic ag-input cabal. The current USDA chief is certainly better equipped to do this than predecessors like John Block and Edward Madigan. Glickman is actually in a position to be considered second-to-none, and that includes Henry A. Wallace, if bravery under fire counts for anything. But the course Secretary Glickman must choose is almost one hundred and eighty degrees away from where USDA is headed right now. Continually cast as a representative of industrial agriculture, like most Ag Secretaries, Glickman has been sending signals for over two years that he is concerned about concentration in food production and how that relates to depressed rural economies in the Heartland. He and his family also eat organic food, and he doesnt mind saying so. Suspense The USDA National Organic Program is on course to publish another proposed rule implementing the Organic Foods Production Act ( OFPA) "sometime by the end of the summer", according to Keith Jones, the NOP director. Meanwhile, the Organic Trade Associations Organic Certifiers Council has drafted a work plan for its own private-sector version of a national organic standard. The authors of the OTA/OCC document will be Jim Riddle, former Executive Director of the Independent Organic Inspectors Association, Lynn Coody, the agricultural policy director of Oregon Tilth, and Emily Brown Rosen of the North East Organic Farming Association. One interesting addition to this private sector initiative is the inclusion of Miles McEvoy, administrator of the organic certification program for the Washington State Department of Agriculture, who is on the OTA advisory committee. Nonetheless, the Organic Trade Association remains committed towards working with USDA so that a quality National Organic Program is implemented that organic farmers and consumers can support. Just as the OTA project got underway, all hands were needed to work on export requirements required of certifiers, occasioned by the lack of uniform accreditation, an issue that would have been solved long ago if the USDA program had been handled more efficiently-and before Mr. Jones was hired a year ago to clean this mess up. Organic Food and Fiber Expansion Quality Assurance International ( QAI), the Organic Growers and Buyers Association (OGBA), and other private certification agencies all report spectacular additions to their rosters of certified producers, manufacturers and handlers. Texas Department of Agriculture officials note that expanded acreage, especially in cotton, is more measurable than an increased number of organic producers. Griff McLellan of QAI noted that the San Diego, California-based certifier measured an average growth of 87% over the past four years. The total number of QAI-certified entities is now over 500, with certification offices in Japan and Canada. OCIA International continues to provide service overseas as well, with plans for an official Central American office in Nicaragua, and new certification programs for thousands of producers in Timor. Lead by advocates like Cecil Preston, growers in Oklahoma are looking at growing organic cotton. And they are identifying parcels far from neighboring corn production where they can plant a corn crop not liable to be contaminated by airborne pollen. In the wake of continued concern about GMO food products in the United Kingdom, many mainstream retailers have opened or expanded their offerings of certified organic products, resulting in severe price run-ups because winter demand seems to be outpacing local supply. The Soil Association, the leading organic certifier in the UK continues to be swamped with inquiries for certification and organic education. Boomerang or Boom? The situation in the UK now is reminiscent of the fall-out that occurred after the CBS 60 Minutes " expose" on the use of the chemical Alar on apples in the late 1980s. While some good came from renewed concern on chemicals, there were many needless problems, chief among them the immense losses by conventional apple growers. Rather than winning over the agricultural establishment, it helped sow the seeds of contention we now see detailed in books like Todd Wilkinson's "Science Under Siege. The Politician's War on Nature and Truth." The antagonism aggravated organic-versus-conventional farmer relationships over the fence-line and at the feed store, and the real enemy was left out of the discussion: the input manufacturers. Surely, education compels improvement, and if the GMO technology had been handled more openly and with objectivity the questions would now be handled without as much contention. I dont know too many organic farmers who want to see a repeat of the Alar madness. While baring Alars potential to do harm lead to some education, the expose frustrated committed organic consumers due to resulting lack of supply and retail price increases, and probably lead to a lot of short-term organic fraud. Without a doubt, organic won new proponents who remained committed after the panic. However, I remember getting calls from New Orleans and Atlanta from feverish buyers that season who wanted nine pallets of celery, or a whole semi-load of Romaine. Immediately. " How about 9 boxes?" I replied. Never is there wisdom in riding a scandals rollercoaster, hurried along by external forces. My recent reading in American History lends a (hopefully) interesting analogy. In 1888, while defending Creek sovereignty over their Oklahoma lands against the Federal threat to undo the US treaties with the resident tribes, Pleasant Porter, Chief of the Creek Nation argued that: " this ( policy) must come from within us. All natures grow from within." It is always the most simple truth that is hardest to learn. When the Indian Territory was illegally opened to Anglo homesteaders in the Boomer Invasion, grafters promoted the theft for humanitarian and even religious reasons, in order to force native Americans to be assimilated into the western world. Correspondingly so in biotech: who asked for this kind of "improvement"? GMO supporters use opportunistically false altruism to promote genetically modified agriculture to better " feed the world" , reduce chemical use, and make US industry more competitive. None of the foregoing seem to be a present priority in GMO biotech , since the corn lobby has won yet another battle to keep the ethanol program alive ( what about the famished millions?), Round Up is now sprayed on millions of acres, and the multinational corporations who are in charge of the technology have freely given to Argentina the research that was financed by the US taxpayer. As for US competitiveness, the reverse is now true, since American farmers are restricted from trading the very products which were supposed to be such a boon. Peter Rosset, the Executive Director of the Institute for Food and Development Policy in San Francisco, summed it up thus: "Of course the most offensive aspect of genetic engineering is the Terminator technology. How can GMO proponents use the specter of hungry people as a justification for taking away from them the right to produce food from the seed they save?" If the Terminators genetic traits escape into the wild, we may eventually be obligated to spray antibiotics or other synthetics over everything ( the genetic formula to override) to assure that the seed will be fertile. Natural Foods: Run over by the Bulls The natural foods sector is one group of publicly traded companies that has not tagged along for the Bull Run, now at 10,004 as of this writing. Stockholders want to know why Whole Foods Markets stock has tanked while everything else is skyrocketing. Today WFM is at 33 bucks a share, whereas a year ago it stood at 70. At the Whole Foods annual meeting in Boulder, Colorado ( three blocks from "arch-rival" Wild Oats HQ?) one stockholder attending was worried that" healthy eating may be a fad just like microbreweries." ( Austin-American Statesman). In my humble opinion, WFM chief John Mackey may have come unhinged in his jealous pursuit for domination in this retail sector. Only fifty people attended the annual meeting in Colorado, whereas fifty shareholders go through their doors in Austin every few hours. Debt to income ratios are one key negative in the competitiveness equation, but WFM recently snapped up Natures Heartland, another mini-chain in Boston, anyway. Whole Foods may have posted 1.4 billion dollars in sales in 1998, but, as we have said before, it isnt Wild Oats that Mr. Mackey should be watchful of, its Albertsons. As Seen On TV And it is in Albertsons and Kroger where Kelloggs and General Mills will be marketing their new lines of organically produced breakfast cereals. Rumor also has it that Chiquita is an IPM consultants dream-machine these days, as the Cincinnati-based banana grower-shipper prepares to go one up on Del Monte and Dole in he quality assurance labeling game. Got Milk? on your mind? California Based Alta Dena has joined Horizon and Organic Valley in the the national organic milk market. So much for breakfast. What are we going to do about lunch? Lets take a good look at what is happening to various players in the organic game. There is plenty of market share going unspoken for. While Cal Organic may be concerned about vegetable giant Tanimura and Antle, or Pacific Soy and Grain may be wary of Cargill, remember that it was Cal-O that drove other potato producers into growing other products, and that Idaho spud-king Simplot may do the same to Cal-O someday. Cargill is the kind of processor/handler-of-scale that a General Mills works with. One reason why Kellogg and General Mills have created an organic product is because there are so many alternatives competing for mainstream consumers attention, and organic is going mainstream. No one can make New York City or RJR Nabisco disappear with a wand. In the corporate acquisition world, there is always another shark big enough to eat the competition. Imagine instead the opportunities you have sitting in the middle of your own hometown. >From Farmstands to National Brands Many farmers would agree that the easy part is usually growing the product, the hardest being getting it to market at the right price. The idea of growing food for your hometown- a truly sustainable diversified production, from broccoli to beef- may seem ludicrous to a 580 acre field crop producer with half a million dollars in equipment parked by the barn and 30,000 bushels in onsite storage capacity. But you have to ask yourself: " Do I want to farm or do I want to justify the equipment by growing rail-car loads of product that is going to be harder and harder to get a good price for?" Harder even for organic products. Those days are here. Selling closer to home and calling the transportation savings part of your profit margin is one way to look at it. At recent organic farmer conferences producers and advocates have listened to perfectly well-intentioned experts decrying international trade and promoting simpler community-oriented ways of farming. These are good ideas. Nevertheless, those speakers dont seem to recognize that they are addressing farmers for whom the agricultural infrastructure in Nebraska, Idaho and Michigan is not primed for salad mix and hand-pressed apple cider. Add all the complicated issues concerning debt-management, inter-familial challenges ( " Dad says we own corn ground, so we plant corn."), crop insurance, re-tooling and re-educating themselves and their equipment. Remember what Pleasant Porter said: All natures grow from within. As growers in transition approach future production schemes, they need to identify what their natural affinity and inclination is. If the dream is going to work it should be inherent. Keeping the Cash in an Affinity Pipeline On the way north to the annual meeting of the Organic Growers and Buyers Association meeting in Minnesota I stopped by Albert Lea Seed House located in the town of the same name. Albert Lea Seed is one of those small, family-owned and run, seed and input vendors that serves the local community, and that community is both organic and conventional farmers. In times past, it was easier to serve both types of farmers, but with the onset of the GMO Age, the decision-making process has become complicated. An OCIA-certified handler and processor, Albert Lea Seed voices the shared concerns of the organic community regarding contamination in organic handling systems, and the Erhardt family, owners of Albert Lea Seed House, are strongly considering devoting their business to purely non-GMO hybrids and cover crop seeds for the organic and sustainable market. Mac Erhardt says it isnt just concerns over contamination, but also because the GMO seed industry requires much more paperwork, owing to novel contractual agreements and licensing documentation. But segregating their business without a bottom-line reason to do so might be financial suicide. Give the Erhardts a call at 1-800-352-5247 if youd like to give them another reason to be GMO-free. Right next door to Albert Lea Seed is a natural foods market, Wintergreen Natural Foods, whose location makes it convenient to organic farmers and hungry journalists who try to steer clear of fried chunk food.(Did you know that a significant majority of all French fries are made with GMO potatoes?) Wintergreen Natural Foods is another candidate for selective patronage. We need to put every dollar into an organic pipeline that flows back to your own wallet. Cooperative Potential In 1998-99, external and internal influences brought organic field crops growers together to discuss forming a cooperative so at least they wouldnt bid against their own prices unnecessarily, and now some of those growers will be taking one next step by electing leadership from within the ranks. John Bobbe, from the Institute for Rural America and Gene Paul, of the National Farmers Organization have offered developmental assistance, but now the ball is in the producers court. If nothing happens, I suppose all one can say was that things werent broken enough to fix them. Anyone interested in reading more about the Field Crops Organizing Committee can refer to . One can also find information on that website about fresh produce growers trying to conceive of a communications system that will help in marketing. In Texas, certified organic field crops producers and livestock producers are on the verge of putting their mutual needs and products together in San Angelo. The point-man there is Ralph Hoelscher (915-468-2592). Arrowhead Mills in Hereford is ready to ship truckloads of organic clean-out to them, and area growers plan on expanding the number of varieties of crops grown, This will lead to a more varied and sustainable crops in the rotation which can supply livestock producers who will market under the new organic meat label. A Green "Furrow" Greg Gunthorp, Indiana pastured-pork producer and member of the National Small Farms Commission notes some good in-depth articles on organic and sustainable agriculture in the John Deere Companys monthly magazine, The Furrow. If the Green machine wants to sell a broader equipment line to an improving sector in agriculture, organic farmers are good target consumers. 30 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 21:47:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03581 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:47:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA14487 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:45:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA14464 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:45:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199904020145.UAA14464@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.183] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A12B2290398; Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:45:15 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 01:41:53 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: organic-approved fungicides for coffee fungi Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 292 On Thu, 01 Apr 1999 18:50:19 -0500 (EST), Rob Fetter wrote: > >I'm looking for any information on "organic"-approved fungicides >and/or cultural practices which will work against the following fungi: > >Mycena citricolor The disease is called 'Ojo de gallo' --- cock's eye --- in Spanish. M. citricolor is the perfect phase of the causal organism, Omphalia flavida, most easily identified in the field by the small yellow structures overgrowing lesions when the weather is rainy or otherwise quite humid. Organic control is all cases is the same --- management of ventilation, and particularly shade management. Keep shade in the 35-45% range. Ojo de gallo is rarely a problem in *well-maintained* diverse polyculture stands dominated by coffee. Cost (and impact) of bordeaux mix and other "organic" fungicides is rarely justified by the level of tissue damage to be found when cultural techniques are in order. >Hemileia vastarix The disease is called 'Roya' --- rust --- is Spanish. In most of the areas where I have worked the control is quite simple. Plant coffee above 1400 metres ideally, 1200 metres for sure. Diverse polycultures minimize disease pressure above 1200 metres, but really don't help at all below that altitude. The folks growing 'cafe tecnificado' below 1200 metres have a significant fungicide bill. I am unaware of a single certified organic coffee planting below 1200 metres anywhere in the Americas, save Hawai'i. It doesn't mean that there absolutely aren't any, just that they're awfully rare. Coffee below 1200 metres in many areas also gets hammered by 'la Broca' --- coffee berry borer --- Hypothenemus hampei (a snout beetle with a face only its mother could love) --- so there is a double incentive to plant at higher elevations. Broca can still be a problem at higher elevations, but there are several good organic controls, mainly a parasitic wasp and the entomopathogenic fungus Beauveria bassiana. That's not what you asked, however, so I'll leave it at that. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 22:07:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA03815 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:07:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA09900 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:28:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA09835 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:28:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from jones ([12.72.50.162]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990402022801.FSBN24217@jones>; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:28:01 +0000 From: "Pat Jones" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:25:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Compost Awareness Week May 2-8 Reply-to: pjjones@worldnet.att.net CC: pjones@ciwmb.ca.gov In-reply-to: <199903280346.VAA28186@supermail.globaldialog.com> Message-Id: <19990402022801.FSBN24217@jones> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 293 April 2, 1999 Dear Friend of Compost and Composting: I would like to encourage you to participate in the upcoming National Composting Awareness Week," May 2-8, 1999. Being sponsored for the first time by the U.S. Composting Council, this international event is designed to turn the spotlight on composting, create enthusiasm for recycling urban organic materials, and increase demand for compost and mulch products. The theme for 1999, "It's Your Turn ... Compost!" draws attention to the importance of composting, whether small-scale home projects or large-scale community operations. The week's goal coincides with a priority of the California Integrated Waste Management Board (CIWMB) "Greening Team," namely to keep organic materials out of landfills by making, selling, and using value-added organic products such as compost and mulch. To celebrate this week, the CIWMB encourages you to plan local community activities to take advantage of State and national media coverage. You could host open house events and tours of composting facilities and demonstration gardens, offer special prices on products, or schedule "how to compost" backyard composting training sessions to build community support and call attention to the reuse of organic materials. A press release from the U.S. Composting Council is enclosed with this letter; you can adapt it to meet your needs by adding specific local event information, or you can write your own release. Media coverage by TV & radio shows could highlight events and activities of your own as well as extend to newspaper articles on gardening and the use of compost. Any company that sponsors events can be listed on the U.S. Composting Council's future advertisements and printed materials for specific events and on its Web site, as well as be included in its upcoming Public Service Announcements where possible. For more information about National Composting Awareness Week in general or about the benefits of company sponsorships, contact Rod Tyler, National Field Representative of the U.S. Composting Council, at (440) 926-8041, or by e-mail at rodndon@gte.net. The CIWMB also will help advertise all National Composting Awareness Week events. Please let us know about your events as they are planned so that we can post them on the CIWMB's Organics Outlook Web site, http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/organics. Send information about your plans to Ava De Lara at adelara@ciwmb.ca.gov or contact her at (916) 255-2613. Organically yours, William R. Orr Greening Team Leader To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 1 23:41:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05402 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:41:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA09214 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:59:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA09199 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.134]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA00476 for ; Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:56:02 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990401215650.006cc53c@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:56:50 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: organic-approved fungicides for coffee fungi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA09203 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 294 Dear SANET In response to the inquiry by Rob Fetter: In Mexico, organic control of these fungi is usually achieved by regulating shade and ensuring good ventilation, pruning shade trees to eliminate shady spots. This is usually all it takes for Mycena. Fungal organisms have very specific substrates and so diversifying the substrate on the leaf surfaces will diversify the fungal populations and impede any one population from getting out of control. This is done by applying any of a number of different compost teas every two to four weeks. This foliar fertilizer also helps balance plant nutrition, the underlying factor determining fungal disease. For particularly recalcitrant cases of roya (Hemileia vastarix) (e.g. at lower altitudes) that do not respond to the above treatments, we have found the following to be very effective: Caldo visosa To prepare 100 liters you need: 500 g copper sulfate 500 g hydrated lime 600 g zinc sulfate 400 g magnesium sulfate 400 g boric acid 2 plastic tubs (one of them should hold 100 liters) 1 machete or iron bar 100 l water In the first tub dissolve the salts of copper, zinc and magnesium and the boric acid in 50 l of water (tub "a") In the second tub (the one of 100 liters) dissolve the lime in 50 of water.(tub "b") Pour solution in tub "a" into solution in tub "b" (never the other way) and stir constantly until thoroughly dissolved. If there are residues the solution should be filtered. Place in a sprayer and apply immediately. Should be enough for about 250 plants. This can be applied every 30 days as long as the coffee is not flowering. Some people recommend alternating with "caldo bordoles" (1 kg copper sulfate, 1 kg lime in 100 l water, dilute 2:1). As always with micronutrients, this is not a "recipe" but an example that should be adjusted according to what you know about the specific nutritional situation you are dealing with. Regards, Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 2 10:30:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10765 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:30:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA26476 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:08:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26387 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:08:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp216.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.216]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA15721 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:11:40 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:02:35 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN4-1; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 295 [Reposted with permission] Here is the front page of a website that you might find interesting URL is http://www.infoshop.org/biotechwatch.html ..... News about biotechnology, genetically-engineered foods (GE) and activist campaigns to control this technology. * Sainsbury's ban GM foods from own-brand range * Organic groups crafting nationwide guidelines * Financial threat in Frankenstein foods * Gene remark shocks Farmers * A question of breeding * Bioengineered Crops Raise Question Of Tampering With Nature * RACHEL Report On Genetically Altering The World's Food * Secret Report On GM Foods Revealed * U.S. helps foil treaty on genetically modified crops * Australia helps sink genetic food treaty * 'Frankenstein food' scare rocks Britain * Monsanto pushes benefits of GM foods to the environment * Greenpeace Calls For Nat'l Import Bans On GE Crops * Seeds of dissension * U.S., others sink talks on biogenetics regulation * U.S. Lawsuit Seeks Withdrawal Of Bio-Engineered Crops * Moratorium on Genetic Engineered Foods in U.K. for 5 Years? * Legal "Terminator" Threatens Francophone Africa's Farmers ................ Financial Times (London) March 27, 1999 Iceland founder acts ahead of the pack Malcolm Walker, founder of frozen food retailer Iceland, announced the removal of genetically modified ingredients from the group's own label products long before the current furore persuaded J Sainsbury and Marks and Spencer to follow suit. This week he reported a bounce back in annual profits from L43.5m to L55.1m. Page 20 ....... The Toronto Star March 28, 1999 LEADING THE CHARGE AGAINST MONSANTO BODY: I wrote last week of India's farmers leading the last cavalry charge against the big guns of Monsanto. Just about everyone is at war with Monsanto over its newest technological achievements involving genetically -modified crops and plants. Those few who are on Monsanto's side include the United States and world powers such as Panama, Peru, and Canada. In February, members of the European Parliament voted to restrict further importation of certain GM products until sufficient study had been done with respect to possible dangers to human health and the environment. Our own government, apparently without a mind of its own, has followed the American lead which is to leave it to the free market to decide. The exception to this was the bovine growth hormone BST, a Monsanto product that boosts milk production in cows. The federal health department, after prolonged and bitter internal debate, followed Europe's decision and banned BST, on the grounds of its effect on the cows. It is possible to be supportive of genetically -modified seeds and yet support the need for further research. Against the benefit of greater crop yields are the possible, considerable dangers. The Europeans are cautious, the Americans are not (it is largely their technology and to their profit); Canada supports the Americans. Monsanto, meanwhile, is on the warpath. It is resisting any attempt by governments to require food containing GM products to be labelled as such, or milk products from cows fed with bovine growth hormone being so labelled. But labelling is only part of the problem: Last February, European health-food importers were obliged to destory 87,000 packages of tortilla chips, imported from the U.S.A., found to contain traces of genetically - modified corn. The tainted corn was likely cross-pollinated from GM maize grown in a neighbouring field. Monsanto is also militantly opposing those it suspects of hijacking its patents. The company is presently suing a Saskatchewan farmer for illegally growing Monsanto GM granola which a hired detective agency found among his crops. The farmer claims the seeds blew in from a nearby dump (where seed sacks are cast away) and took root in his fields. He has spent thousands thus far in legal fees; his case is due in court this autumn. An effort by 170 nations to reach an accord regulating the commerce in genetically -engineered products foundered at this month's meeting in Colombia. The United States, along with a host of lobbying corporations, and of course Canada, were among those seeking to undermine the initiative. They succeeded. The Colombia protocol was intended to follow the convention on Biological Diversity, ratified by 174 nations, including Canada, at the 1992 Earth Summit meetings in Rio de Janeiro. The Americans, however, have not yet concurred. Although President Clinton signed the treaty in 1993, the Senate has delayed giving consent. English Nature, the British government's statutory adviser on these matters, has written Prime Minister Tony Blair to offer its measured opinion: ''Our position,'' the letter reads, ''on the likely effect of herbicide tolerant crops is based on good scientific evidence, which demonstates that declines in wild plants, insects, and birds on agricultural land is partly due to the use of more efficient herbicides. More research has recently been commissioned ... but will not report until 2003 at the earliest. ''Our advice to government has been that herbicide tolerant crops and insect- resistant crops, not all GM crops, should not be released commercially until this research has been completed... It is important that English Nature be in a position to reassure the public that the technology is environmentally safe. .. We cannot assure the public about this currently.'' The British consumer has, at least, a friend in the court of Tony Blair. Canadians have - you won't like this - only the Canadian Senate, whose Agriculture Committee alone took on Monsanto and its bovine growth hormone, along with senior health department officials, and the minister, Allan Rock. The government, apparently, is in mortal fear of being sued through chapter 11 of the NAFTA - every multinational corporation's best friend - and of losing face in the WTO. Monsanto, you may recall, are the wonderful folk who brought the world Agent Orange, a defoliant as deadly to people as to weeds, a leading manufacturer of PCBs which cause cancer, and who sued farmers daring to label their produce ''BST free.'' It was the Senate of Canada that gave health department researchers the opportunity to testify to their unwillingness to approve BST and to report Monsanto's friendly offer of $1 million to $2 million to Drs. Haydon and Drennan, made by a Monsanto representative and which Drennan has said he considered as a bribe. (Monsanto has denied it.) The Minister and senior officials sought to intimidate the witnesses and censor their testimony, and the government has denied the Senate committee the power to subpoena department records. This is a Liberal government? Dalton Camp is a political commentator. His columns appear Sundays and Wednesdays in The Star. ................. Los Angeles Times March 28, 1999 Opinion Desk COMMENTARY; PRINCE CHARLES TO TONY BLAIR: GET LOST; FARMING: THE HEIR APPARENT ADAMANTLY CAMPAIGNS AGAINST GENETICALLY ENGINEERED CROPS. BYLINE: ALEXANDER COCKBURN, Alexander Cockburn writes for the Nation and other publications BODY: Even in the darkest days of Princess Di mania, when his name was mud among the masses, I had high hopes for Prince Charles as a radical thorn in the side of business-as-usual. He's always been conspicuous for sensible environmental positions athwart conventional opinion--on the Amazon rainforest, land use and organic agriculture. Now he's justifying my expectations, launching princely broadsides against some of capital's mightiest corporate powers, specifically Monsanto and the genetic -industrial complex. Last month, Labor Prime Minister Tony Blair ordered the prince to shut down his royal Web site (www.princeofwales.gov.uk), which features vigorous denunciations by the heir apparent of GM-- genetically modified crops. (In the U.S., it's GE-- genetically engineered crops.) The prince refused point blank the prime minister's command. Genetic material, the prince thunders in one posting, "does not stay where it is put. Pollen is spread by the wind and by insects. GM crops can contaminate conventional and organic crops growing nearby." Such crops eventually mean "sterile fields offering little or no food or shelter to wild life." The prince adds, "I wonder about the claims that some GM crops are essential to feed the world's growing populations. . . . How will the companies who own this technology make a sufficient profit from selling their products to the world's poorest people? Wouldn't it be better to concentrate instead on the sustainable techniques which can double or treble the yields from traditional farming systems?" It may seem ironic that the British heir apparent should be adopting a principled, enlightened position in marked contrast to Blair and the social democrats. But their roles are in character. Blair's tradition of social democracy has a frenzied enthusiasm for supposed technological progress. It was Harold Wilson, Labor Party leader in the '60s, who used to hymn "the white heat of technology." The tradition of rambling and rural hiking that used to mark British radicals has long since gone. Far dearer to Blair's heart are big corporations--most notably Monsanto--that are pushing patents for genetically modified crops into Europe. Blair ordered the prince to shut down his Web site, calling it political meddling. GM is a hot issue in the UK. The stakes are high for Monsanto. Consumers Union estimates that Monsanto's bovine growth hormone, rBGH, could earn the company $ 500 million a year in the U.S. and another $ 1 billion a year internationally. The haul from Monsanto's Round-Up Ready soybeans, potatoes and corn and its terminator seeds could be tens of billions more. Faced with the almost certain prospect that the European Union would ban the import of Monsanto genetically modified corn in 1998, the company unleashed an unprecedented lobbying effort, flying a group of critical journalists to the U.S. to visit its corporate headquarters and labs with a side trip to the White House. Bill Clinton and Al Gore got into the act, engaging in some last-minute arm-twisting of the Irish and French prime ministers. France and Ireland caved in to the pressure by last July. This spring, Monsanto's GM corn will be planted in Europe. In Britain, the Labor government, secure in its majority, is nonetheless embarrassed by blunders on the GM issue, including that Lord Sainsbury, Labor's science minister, who is deeply involved in GM decision-making, had financial and familial ties in GM companies. Prince Charles commands considerable public support from Britons deeply suspicious of scientific manipulation of their food. The '60s live on, in the most surprising ways. A decent slice of Prince Charles's world view--cosmic holism, organic communitarianism--mirrors that of an American hippie in the late '60s. After all, organic agriculture in America owes much to the hippies, as does Humboldt Gold, an example of biological manipulation of the most uplifting sort. ........ Africa News March 25, 1999 Kenya; Lobby cautions against genetically -modified foods BYLINE: Catherine Mgendi, The Nation (Nairobi) Nairobi - There is more at stake in the on-going biosafety debate than the politics of free trade and biodiversity conservation. Environmentalists say one of the greatest concerns of the biotechnology industry is the health implication of eating genetically -altered foods. According to Greenpeace International, geneticists are "altering life itself, dabbling with genes" to produce unnatural living plants and animals. Greenpeace calls the potential consequences of this millennium industry " frightening", saying scientists are sourcing genes of their products from organisms such as rats, scorpions, bacteria and even humans, which have never been part of the food chain. "The danger is they are mixing genes from entirely unrelated species; animal genes are going into vegetables, bacteria genes into food crops, and human genes into animals. ... Never before have genes from bacteria or scorpions been part of the human diet!" says the environmental lobby, lamenting that safety tests on genetically -engineered foods have been "terrifyingly inadequate". How will we protect our health when we can never tell what strange genes have been put in our basic foodstuffs? ........ Portugal feed industry says GM safety paramount By David Brough LISBON, March 25 (Reuters) - Portugal's animal feed industry believes food safety is paramount in the debate over whether to use genetically modified (GM) foodstuffs, a spokesman said on Thursday. Luis Marques, secretary general of the Feed Compounders Association (IACA), said it was too early for IACA to take a position on GM foods as not enough information was available about possible long-term health risks. Our biggest concern is for food safety," he told Reuters in a telephone interview. "The debate on genetically modified organisms (GMOs) remains confused because there is no concrete information on the possible consequences of GMOs for health," he added. ........ >From BBC News Website page: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_307000/307544.stm Co-op pulls out of GM trials The UK's biggest farming organisation has pulled out of government trials of genetically modified crops after concerns were raised by environmentalists. ... The Co-operative Wholesale Society (CWS), which farms 80,000 acres across the UK, was to have hosted two of the trials [of genetically modified crops]. But the CWS says it will be pulling out of the tests for this year as it believed the tests themselves could raise the very fears they are designed to allay. ..... 29 March 1999 Farmers Weekly (UK) CPS drops case against anti-GM women THE Crown Prosecution Service has dropped charges against two women accused of destroying a test site for genetically modified (GM) crops in Devon. Jacklyn Sheedy and Elizabeth Snook were arrested last August after protestors uprooted a crop of herbicide-resistant maize at Hood Barton Farm, near Totnes. The site is only a few hundred yards from a leading organic vegetable farm. _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Fri Apr 2 12:53:14 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12978 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:53:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA16357; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:41:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16131 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:40:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from digisys.net (modem67.digisys.net [205.138.110.116]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02751; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:43:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37050279.43BDFA5@digisys.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:46:33 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" CC: CSA-L , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: OFF: Wheat Breeding Partnerships on the Horizon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 296 The following article from Montana Ag Extension makes me want to absolutely cry. Montana wheat fields are an absolute blessing to behold, and here we have the Montana Ag Extension suggesting what a benefit genetically altered wheat seed can bring to the Montana wheat farmers profit stucture. How very sad, Pat Hironimus ========== The Age of Wheat Breeding Partnerships is on the Horizon from MSU News Service 3/31/1999 Contact: Luther Talbert 406) 994-5060, Phil Bruckner (406) 994-5127, Jim Christianson (406) 761-7732 BOZEMAN -- It's only a matter of time before Montana State University and corporations work together to breed new wheats with characteristics only dreamed of before. Although some farmers may be leery at first, a partnership between public breeding efforts and corporations should afford Montana producers a new way to limit costs of production, predicts the executive vice president of the Montana Wheat and Barley Committee. For many years, wheat seed appropriate for Montana's climate has been bred by Montana State University breeders. The public seed was then available to be sold through seed companies or as "common seed" neighbor to neighbor. With a corporate connection, certain seed sales will be restricted to official channels and that seed may cost more. But those costs should be more than offset by higher profits possible using the genes companies have patented, says Jim Christianson of the MWBC. At the least, corporate partnerships should keep Montana wheat producers from being at a disadvantage compared to producers in other states that have established such partnerships, say MSU wheat breeders. At the best, the new seed may provide greater profits for Montana wheat producers and more "environmentally friendly" production systems. No wheat breeding partnerships with companies have been established, but negotiations with several companies are underway, say Luther Talbert, MSU spring wheat breeder, and Phil Bruckner, MSU winter wheat breeder. Talbert and Bruckner say they would not have been comfortable with a corporate connection without support from wheat growers in the state. The crux of the matter is that companies have patented specific genes, says Talbert. MSU has developed varieties with the other 30,000 genes that let a wheat variety grow well in Montana. Addition of the patented genes to Montana wheats has the potential to add value to current Montana varieties, says Talbert, adding that, "Ultimately, it will be the producer and consumer who decide the value of the new varieties." For the producer, that decision will be based at least partially on whether the new seed is more profitable. For the consumer, the question will be whether to buy products made with the resulting genetically engineered wheat. In one sense, people have been consuming "genetically engineered" wheat for thousands of years. When early farmers selected a bigger seed head or a healthier seed head to plant the following season, they were selecting for the genes they preferred. However, the way the term "genetic engineering" is used nowadays, usually refers to putting genes from two different types of organisms together, such as putting a microbe's genes into grass. Microbes do a little of that by themselves, but scientists have learned how to harness the process and make it happen. All genetic engineering the brings genes from different species together is subject to review by the Environmental Protection Agency; the Food and Drug Administration and USDA as well as the consumer. In the case of wheats bred with patented genes, the DNA may carry herbicide, disease or insect resistance, says Talbert. Such genes also could produce wheats that are more drought tolerant or that produce some of their own nutrients. In the Midwest and South, producers extensively use genetically engineered soybean, corn and cotton. The genetically engineered seed provides resistance to the European corn borer and the cotton bollworm, among other things. By providing insect or herbicide resistance, the new wheats may require less pesticide or use safer herbicide. However, the new seeds might require the herbicide of a specific company. "There will be herbicide resistant varieties on the Montana market in a few years," says Bruckner. "If we don't help develop them, they may not be well adapted for Montana growing conditions. We have to do this if we're looking after the best interests of the Montana producer. The fact is that if we don't do it and our competitors do, they may end up with a production advantage over Montana in the wheat market." From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Apr 2 12:54:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12992 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:54:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27356 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:47:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15778; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:45:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15608 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:43:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from digisys.net (modem67.digisys.net [205.138.110.116]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02751; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:43:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <37050279.43BDFA5@digisys.net> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:46:33 -0700 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bdnow@envirolink.org" CC: CSA-L , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: OFF: Wheat Breeding Partnerships on the Horizon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 297 The following article from Montana Ag Extension makes me want to absolutely cry. Montana wheat fields are an absolute blessing to behold, and here we have the Montana Ag Extension suggesting what a benefit genetically altered wheat seed can bring to the Montana wheat farmers profit stucture. How very sad, Pat Hironimus ========== The Age of Wheat Breeding Partnerships is on the Horizon from MSU News Service 3/31/1999 Contact: Luther Talbert 406) 994-5060, Phil Bruckner (406) 994-5127, Jim Christianson (406) 761-7732 BOZEMAN -- It's only a matter of time before Montana State University and corporations work together to breed new wheats with characteristics only dreamed of before. Although some farmers may be leery at first, a partnership between public breeding efforts and corporations should afford Montana producers a new way to limit costs of production, predicts the executive vice president of the Montana Wheat and Barley Committee. For many years, wheat seed appropriate for Montana's climate has been bred by Montana State University breeders. The public seed was then available to be sold through seed companies or as "common seed" neighbor to neighbor. With a corporate connection, certain seed sales will be restricted to official channels and that seed may cost more. But those costs should be more than offset by higher profits possible using the genes companies have patented, says Jim Christianson of the MWBC. At the least, corporate partnerships should keep Montana wheat producers from being at a disadvantage compared to producers in other states that have established such partnerships, say MSU wheat breeders. At the best, the new seed may provide greater profits for Montana wheat producers and more "environmentally friendly" production systems. No wheat breeding partnerships with companies have been established, but negotiations with several companies are underway, say Luther Talbert, MSU spring wheat breeder, and Phil Bruckner, MSU winter wheat breeder. Talbert and Bruckner say they would not have been comfortable with a corporate connection without support from wheat growers in the state. The crux of the matter is that companies have patented specific genes, says Talbert. MSU has developed varieties with the other 30,000 genes that let a wheat variety grow well in Montana. Addition of the patented genes to Montana wheats has the potential to add value to current Montana varieties, says Talbert, adding that, "Ultimately, it will be the producer and consumer who decide the value of the new varieties." For the producer, that decision will be based at least partially on whether the new seed is more profitable. For the consumer, the question will be whether to buy products made with the resulting genetically engineered wheat. In one sense, people have been consuming "genetically engineered" wheat for thousands of years. When early farmers selected a bigger seed head or a healthier seed head to plant the following season, they were selecting for the genes they preferred. However, the way the term "genetic engineering" is used nowadays, usually refers to putting genes from two different types of organisms together, such as putting a microbe's genes into grass. Microbes do a little of that by themselves, but scientists have learned how to harness the process and make it happen. All genetic engineering the brings genes from different species together is subject to review by the Environmental Protection Agency; the Food and Drug Administration and USDA as well as the consumer. In the case of wheats bred with patented genes, the DNA may carry herbicide, disease or insect resistance, says Talbert. Such genes also could produce wheats that are more drought tolerant or that produce some of their own nutrients. In the Midwest and South, producers extensively use genetically engineered soybean, corn and cotton. The genetically engineered seed provides resistance to the European corn borer and the cotton bollworm, among other things. By providing insect or herbicide resistance, the new wheats may require less pesticide or use safer herbicide. However, the new seeds might require the herbicide of a specific company. "There will be herbicide resistant varieties on the Montana market in a few years," says Bruckner. "If we don't help develop them, they may not be well adapted for Montana growing conditions. We have to do this if we're looking after the best interests of the Montana producer. The fact is that if we don't do it and our competitors do, they may end up with a production advantage over Montana in the wheat market." From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 2 16:09:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16538 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:09:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09806 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:07:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09745 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (root@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id PAA22844 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id PAA01792 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:07:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id PAA01788 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:07:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: rac6.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:07:18 -0500 (EST) From: joel b gruver To: sanet Subject: estimating total organic inputs to soil under different cropping systems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 298 Hello to all, I am currently evaluating the relationship between organic inputs to soil under different cropping systems and soil parameters such as aggregate stability, microbial biomass, "active fraction" C, total SOM... I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has been modeling total organic inputs to soil under agricultural systems... I need some better references discussing crop plant C partitioning/harvest indices/weed inputs to soil OM... Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research U of MD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 2 17:00:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17235 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:00:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA12944 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:58:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12860 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA16455; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:04:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05486; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:58:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:58:18 -0500 (EST) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: marko@chatham.ces.state.nc.us, spfarms@coastalnet.com Subject: Need info on grants for tobacco farmers. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 299 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net There are about 20 certified organic tobacco farmers in NC & Virginia, all selling to Santa Fe Tobacco Co. The consultant for SFTC working with them is: Albert Butler 919-737-8478 (NCSU) Two of the farmers are: Orange County: Stanley Hughes 919-644-3276 Granville County: Phillip Barker 919-693-7311 (Phillip & Dorothy Barker may have info on grants) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:40:56 -0500 From: stuart To: permanet@metalab.unc.edu Please send me any information you have available for a grant for tobacco farmers. Thank you, Stuart Pierce Rt 4 Box 215 Ahoskie, NC 27910 252-332-3439 Fax 252-332-8662 E mail spfarms@coastalnet.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From guldann@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 2 17:53:32 1999 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18412 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:53:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA29950; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:46:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from bsg-ma1-104.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.104) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029933; Fri Apr 2 16:46:11 1999 Message-ID: <018401be7d5a$53da59e0$1ef96ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Larry London" , Cc: , Subject: Re: Need info on grants for tobacco farmers. Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:44:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 300 LOL are cigarettes made from organic tobacco good for your health? Beth -----Original Message----- From: Larry London To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: marko@chatham.ces.state.nc.us ; spfarms@coastalnet.com Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 4:12 PM Subject: Need info on grants for tobacco farmers. >http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden >london@metalab.unc.edu llondon@bellsouth.net >There are about 20 certified organic tobacco farmers >in NC & Virginia, all selling to Santa Fe Tobacco Co. >The consultant for SFTC working with them is: >Albert Butler 919-737-8478 (NCSU) >Two of the farmers are: >Orange County: >Stanley Hughes 919-644-3276 >Granville County: >Phillip Barker >919-693-7311 >(Phillip & Dorothy Barker may have info on grants) >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:40:56 -0500 >From: stuart >To: permanet@metalab.unc.edu > >Please send me any information you have available for a grant for tobacco >farmers. > >Thank you, >Stuart Pierce >Rt 4 Box 215 >Ahoskie, NC 27910 >252-332-3439 >Fax 252-332-8662 >E mail spfarms@coastalnet.com > > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 2 19:47:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA20557 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:47:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA26136 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:44:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA26008 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 18:44:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from [204.119.60.169] (li-ppp04.hevanet.com [204.119.60.169]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26308; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:44:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199904022344.PAA26308@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 15:47:17 -0800 Subject: FW: TOPAZ is a Software Gem From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Bargyla Rateaver CC: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 302 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: TOPAZ is a Software Gem Date: Fri, Apr 2, 1999, 6:56 AM STORY LEAD: TOPAZ is a Software Gem ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA April 2, 1999 Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- A computer program that helps researchers investigate soil erosion and water runoff problems by giving a detailed analysis of land topography has been developed by Agricultural Research Service scientists and cooperators in Canada. ARS is USDA's chief research agency. ARS scientist Jurgen Garbrecht and professor Lawrence Martz from the University of Saskatchewan, Canada, developed the software program called TOPAZ. The name is an abbreviation of "Topographic Parameterization," a computer analysis tool that defines, quantifies and analyzes land surface characteristics, watershed information and drainage features. The collaboration between Garbrecht and Martz is part of an international research effort to develop and implement digital landscape technology to help address drainage- and runoff-related problems. TOPAZ has already gone global. Researchers, engineers and educators in Europe, the Middle East and North America are using it. TOPAZ does not create graphic images on the computer monitor, but derives important landscape data that can be displayed by a commercial Geographic Information System (GIS) package. Garbrecht, a hydraulic engineer with ARS' Grazinglands Research Laboratory in El Reno, Okla., says this allows the user to select preferred or existing display software without being forced to adopt or buy another package. TOPAZ provides data in a basic format that is readable by most GIS systems. New capabilities are being developed and incorporated into TOPAZ to further broaden its application. Copies of TOPAZ are available on request from Garbrecht. An in-depth article on this research appears in the April issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr99/topaz0499.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Jurgen D. Garbrecht, ARS Grazinglands Research Laboratory, El Reno, Okla., phone (405) 262-4316, fax (405) 262-0133, garbrech@grl.ars.usda.gov ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 2 20:23:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA21244 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:23:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02763 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:39:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02652 for ; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:39:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool025-max1.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.12.225]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 21WV78TB; Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:44:47 -0500 Message-ID: <3705628D.2BD932AE@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:36:29 -0800 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #944 References: <199904022310.SAA03752@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 303 please stop posting full texts of these articles, they bump other stuff off of the digest, and eat up space- links are enough- also- please do not post HTML docs, as they get converted by the listserver and end up with visible markup thanks phil pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Apr 3 08:58:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA28221 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:58:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA23982 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:00:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23821 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 08:00:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ddworley (ppp224.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.224]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA26958 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:03:52 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 09:03:42 -0400 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN4-2 Happy Easter; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 304 [Reposted with permission] posted by Paul Davis UK Daily Telegraph 1st April 1999 National Trust bans GM crops from 700 farms By David Brown, Agriculture Editor THE National Trust joined calls for a moratorium on the commercial production of genetically modified crops yesterday. The trust said it was taking action to stop hundreds of its tenant farmers growing them. Farmers will need explicit permission to grow GM crops from now on, it said. The move affects more than 700 producers on 575,000 acres of National Trust land in England and Wales. It follows decisions by a string of supermarkets to exclude GM ingredients from their own-label foods and an announcement on Monday by the Co-op, Britain's largest farmer, that it would not be taking part in "flawed" Government trials in which whole fields are given over to GM crops. In a statement, the trust called for a moratorium on GM crops that could pose a risk to wildlife and the environment, although it accepted the need for "small scale" trials to enable the risks to be assessed. John Harvey, the trust's head of nature conservation, said: "The difficulty with GM crops is that we do not know the risks. A moratorium on the commercial growing of these crops is the only sensible way forward, to allow the risks to be scientifically assessed. It may take one year, it may take 10. There should be no commercial growing until the scientific judgment is made." The trust also said that it was removing all foods labelled as containing GM ingredients from sale in its 136 tearooms and restaurants and 127 shops, which sell a range of foods from jams to Christmas puddings. .......... Here is some news from some hero journalists Subject: NEWS FROM STEVE & JANE JUDGE SAYS NO TO FOX REQUEST FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT; LANDMARK TRIAL IS NOW SET TO BEGIN MAY 10 TAMPA (April 2)-After predictions by Fox Television and its lawyers that the whistleblower case of two former WTVT reporters would never make it to trial, a Florida judge has cleared with the way for the landmark trial to begin May 10. The suit, filed almost exactly a year ago (on April 2) by investigative reporters Jane Akre and Steve Wilson, alleges they were fired for refusing orders from WTVT news managers and Fox lawyers who directed them to lie and distort the facts about a dairy hormone they discovered in Florida's milk supply. The station has long said there is no basis for the charges by the journalists. Attorney Patricia Anderson, representing Fox Television and it's network-owned Channel 13 argued in court, that the whistleblower claim filed by the journalists should be thrown out because it did not meet certain standards set by Florida law. She cited alleged technical deficiencies in the suit and claimed it should be dismissed for those reasons and because she claimed there were no real issues of fact for a jury to decide. In his ruling, Circuit Court Judge Robert Bonanno said, "genuine issues of material fact remain on all the grounds raised by Defendant in their Motion "As such, this Court is prohibited from entered a summary judgment." Attorney Thomas McGowan, Anderson's law partner who has also been working on the case, responded today, "I always defer to the wisdom of the courts." In praising her own attorneys, Jane Akre said, "John Chamblee did a magnificent job documenting the legal basis for our claim. We are entirely confident that he and Steve Wenzel and Matt Fenton will do an equally superb job presenting the facts to the jury in a few weeks." In a year since the case was filed, Wilson has personally taken the depositions of several WTVT and Fox employees. The defendant company and its lawyers have bitterly argued that his efforts were motivated by a desire to intimidate the witnesses and disrupt the station's operations. The judge, and a special legal master assigned to hear pre-trial discovery disputes, has never agreed that Wilson has acted inappropriately in deposing top company officials including Fox News chief Roger Ailes and a host of others. "So far, we've heard sworn testimony that our editors and Fox lawyers never found a single misreported fact in any of the 83 scripts we proposed to broadcast," Wilson said. "The news director who hired us has testified once Fox took over, there was little support for the kind of aggressive reporting that sometimes steps on toes of big, powerful corporations like Monsanto," he continued. (That news director, Daniel Webster, was subsequently himself fired by Fox. He is now a news director for CBS in charge of their San Francisco station's news department.) "And after launching a personal smear campaign and telling reporters we walked away from the story because we couldn't get our way, WTVT's news v-p Phil Metlin has admitted under oath we provided final scripts in accordance with his direction but he never even looked at them!" Wilson added. Meanwhile, the defendant has taken only a handful of depositions and never followed through on its stated intention to depose more than 20 individuals outside Florida. With the trial set to start in just five weeks, they have deposed only the plaintiffs, a postal worker, and three Florida dairymen. Wilson and Akre were hired to produce hard-hitting investigative reports, a mandate which changed once Fox formally closed on its purchase of the station in January 1998. Their first report, an expose on the widespread secret use of Bovine Growth Hormone in Florida, was set to begin February 24, 1997 but was derailed after the hormone maker hired an influential New York lawyer to pressure Fox. The journalists say they were ultimately fired for refusing to report information they knew to be false and misleading and to slant the story in Monsanto's favor to avoid potential litigation and the loss of advertising revenue Fox and its associated companies receive. When the Society of Professional Journalists recognized the reporters with an Award for Ethics, Fox responded by demanding that the award be rescinded on the grounds there was no basis for their claims. SPJ declined to do so, despite a letter-writing campaign which involved at least two WTVT employees and its vice president of News. Wilson and Akre were also cited with the Joe Calloway Award for Civic Courage, awarded by a foundation supported by the family of consumer activist Ralph Nader. # # For more information: Steve Wilson or Jane Akre (727) 799-7559 _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Apr 3 13:07:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00422 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 13:07:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA08573 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:19:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA08563 for ; Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000111206 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 1999 11:15:55 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), jim@niall7.demon.co.uk Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 17:16:10 GMT Subject: GE: Lawmakers urge EPA to reconsider plant pesticide rules Message-ID: <2476605438.2270546@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 305 Lawmakers urge EPA to reconsider plant pesticide rules RTw 25.03.99 03:08 Copyright 1999 Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved. By Julie Vorman WASHINGTON, March 24 (Reuters) - Farm state lawmakers from both parties on Wednesday attacked the Environmental Protection Agency's plan to start regulating genetically modified plant pesticides, saying the rules could stifle the biotechnology industry. Grower groups and 11 scientific organisations contend the EPA has no business making rules for bioengineered crops with built-in resistance to certain pests because the plants are no different than those bred by conventional methods. The issue also raises questions about how well the EPA, U.S. Agriculture Department and Food and Drug Administration have divvied up responsibility over parts of the food chain. While the EPA regulates clean air, water and pesticides, the USDA reviews bioengineered plants for safety and the FDA monitors food additives and safety. During the past three years, genetically modified crops have expanded rapidly and now dominate U.S. plantings. More than half of all U.S. soybeans and cotton grown in 1999 will be genetically engineered for resistance to certain herbicides. "We must be sure that regulatory excess does not suffocate this (biotechnology) industry," said Representative Larry Combest, a Texas Republican who heads the House Agriculture committee. Two of the Agriculture panel's subcommittees held a rare joint hearing of 44 House lawmakers to question EPA officials. Combest asked the EPA to reopen its formal rulemaking on plant pesticides, and take a closer look at the costs to the plant-breeding industry. Among other things, the EPA's term of "plant pesticide" has been criticised by some groups as a deliberate attempt to bring the issue under the agency's jurisdiction, and likely to arouse public suspicion. A group of industry officials and scientists earlier this month said they preferred "plant-expressed protectant" instead. Jim Aidala, associate assistant administrator of EPA, said the agency had no option except to issue regulations based on its reading of a 1947 law. "Without an exemption or federal registration, you would be in violation of the law," Aidala told the panel. "We see this as a 'win-win' for both the environment and the growers." The EPA said the proposed rules -- which it hopes to finalise later this year -- are necessary to give final and clear rules to plant developers. Aidala emphasised that most of the widely used plant pesticides would be swiftly and permanently exempted from regulation. The real purpose of the regulations, he said, is to make sure that a genetic characteristic inserted into a plant to fight pests or weeds is safe for its intended use. For example, one U.S. variety of potato is already genetically engineered to fight a costly disease that affects the plant's leaves. But if that gene, which can cause birth defects, were transferred to a leafy food such as spinach, it could have serious health effects, Aidala said. Democrats on the panel either kept silent or expressed worry about the course the EPA was headed on. "Farmers want to approach this in a reasonable way," said Representative Eva Clayton, the ranking Democrat on the panel. She urged the agency to take another look at whether the regulations were needed, and if so, how slowly they should be phased in. Representative George Brown, a California Democrat and longtime champion of the EPA, said he was concerned that the agency appeared to be trying to expand its turf by narrowly interpreting a half-century-old law that covers pesticides. "I'm concerned that what we have here may be a semantic issue," Brown said. Eleven science groups, including the American Society of Agronomy and the Institute of Food Technologists, have opposed the EPA plan to regulate plant pesticides. Aidala also said the EPA was working with the USDA to develop an expedited process for exempting plant pesticides shown to pose a low probability of risk. Bioengineered plant pesticides also have "tremendous potential" for replacing more toxic, traditional pesticides, Aidala said. ---- For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the Ban-GEF list, send email to Ban-GEF@lists.txinfinet.com with HELP in the SUBJECT line. ---- From: jim@niall7.demon.co.uk (jim mcnulty) To: Ban gef Subject: B-GE: Lawmakers urge EPA to reconsider plant pesticide rules -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 4 09:14:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA14700 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA08810 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:06:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (root@always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA08758 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from got.net (SantaCruz207.got.net [209.66.100.207]) by always.got.net (8.8.8/8.8.7/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id FAA21034 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 05:05:58 -0700 Message-ID: <370747C3.D0CAF8E7@got.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 04:06:46 -0700 From: Cecile Mills Reply-To: seaseal@got.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: food costs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2BC293DE16060A98142EFE09" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 306 --------------2BC293DE16060A98142EFE09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: "Bluestem Associates" > > Super Center on a Saturday afternoon and you will see that Larry > Lunchbucket, Joe Sixpack, and Mr. & Mrs. Frontporch are quite content > with the food system as it is currently structured. Their food costs > them less and less (at the till, and as a percentage of their > disposable income), and it's more and more convenient for them, every > year. > Althought Bluestem mentions *university in the '60s* my guess is he or she didn't do much shopping. Anyone who things food is less expensive now than even ten years ago must not spend much time or money in a grocery store. I am recalling George Bush's exclamation at a bar-code reader (What's that thing?), showing he didn't spend much time shopping for food either! Goodness, run out and buy some fish ($$$ more than in the '60s, '70s, '80s, and even early '90s as most is now raised on fish ranches as natural stock dies out in our pesticide-laden lakes, rivers, and bays) or vegetables (I just paid $1.39 for a head of lettuce, locally grown in season). Sometimes the media can make things seem so real--like the *no inflation* story that's making the rounds right now, or the finagling of numbers so you can say *food is a smaller percentage of disposable income*---now, just what does that mean to you? It means to me that you aren't alarmed about the cost of food and that means you just aren't paying attention. I would encourage people who do shop to remark (if only to themselves) on how much of their budget goes to food. --------------2BC293DE16060A98142EFE09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    From: "Bluestem Associates" <bluestem@webserf.net>
    Super Center on a Saturday afternoon and you will see that Larry
    Lunchbucket, Joe Sixpack, and Mr. & Mrs. Frontporch are quite content
    with the food system as it is currently structured. Their food costs
    them less and less (at the till, and as a percentage of their
    disposable income), and it's more and more convenient for them, every
    year.

    Althought Bluestem mentions *university in the '60s* my guess is he or she didn't do much shopping. Anyone who things food is less expensive now than even ten years ago must not spend much time or money in a grocery store. I am recalling George Bush's exclamation at a bar-code reader (What's that thing?), showing he didn't spend much time shopping for food either!

    Goodness, run out and buy some fish ($$$ more than in the '60s, '70s, '80s, and even early '90s as most is now raised on fish ranches as natural stock dies out in our pesticide-laden lakes, rivers, and bays) or vegetables (I just paid $1.39 for a head of lettuce, locally grown in season).

    Sometimes the media can make things seem so real--like the *no inflation* story that's making the rounds right now, or the finagling of numbers so you can say *food is a smaller percentage of disposable income*---now, just what does that mean to you?

    It means to me that you aren't alarmed about the cost of food and that means you just aren't paying attention.

    I would encourage people who do shop to remark (if only to themselves) on how much of their budget goes to food. --------------2BC293DE16060A98142EFE09-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 4 13:15:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16530 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29510 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:43:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.real.on.ca (mail2.real.on.ca [209.167.186.129]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29461 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from london.skyscape.net (pppD16.mco.net [209.167.186.36]) by mail2.real.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09259 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:42:58 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gelliott@london.skyscape.net) Message-ID: <3707959D.1408BADE@london.skyscape.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 12:38:54 -0400 From: Gary Elliott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: [Fwd: food costs] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0D28E7C1CCE947D56BF98396" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 307 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0D28E7C1CCE947D56BF98396 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------0D28E7C1CCE947D56BF98396 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3707951A.58F80C4@london.skyscape.net> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 12:36:43 -0400 From: Gary Elliott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: seaseal@got.net Subject: Re: food costs References: <370747C3.D0CAF8E7@got.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BAA4C030A17DAA4CE56714E7" --------------BAA4C030A17DAA4CE56714E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Food is cheaper now than it has ever been! Look at the basics, flour, beans, rice, eggs, milk, meat etc, and compare how long it takes the average worker to earn enough income to buy these and you will have to agree. HOwever, when you go to the grocery store and look at the prepared foods that one can buy, you can think that the average meal cost is higher. There is a packaged pasta dinner that is sold at our local grocery store that consists of fresh pasta, a packet of sauce, and some precut strips of chicken. It sells for 9.99, and it says it will feed two-three people. If one would buy the individual components, I would think the price would be about 1/2. What we are often buying in the grocery store is manufactured food, and are paying for the factory labour and overhead to do what we have previously done at home. One can spend $40.00 a week for food, or $100/week, The choice is how much labour is included in what we buy. As for inflation being a problem, please enlighten us on just what products are increasing in price. There are always price hikes in things during periods of low inflation, such as know, don't take anecdotal stories and extrapolate them into the big picture. Gary Elliott Sylvan Organic Farm Parkhill, Ontario Cecile Mills wrote: > > >> From: "Bluestem Associates" >> >> Super Center on a Saturday afternoon and you will see that Larry >> Lunchbucket, Joe Sixpack, and Mr. & Mrs. Frontporch are quite content >> with the food system as it is currently structured. Their food costs >> them less and less (at the till, and as a percentage of their >> disposable income), and it's more and more convenient for them, every >> year. >> > Althought Bluestem mentions *university in the '60s* my guess is he or > she didn't do much shopping. Anyone who things food is less expensive > now than even ten years ago must not spend much time or money in a > grocery store. I am recalling George Bush's exclamation at a bar-code > reader (What's that thing?), showing he didn't spend much time > shopping for food either! > > Goodness, run out and buy some fish ($$$ more than in the '60s, '70s, > '80s, and even early '90s as most is now raised on fish ranches as > natural stock dies out in our pesticide-laden lakes, rivers, and bays) > or vegetables (I just paid $1.39 for a head of lettuce, locally grown > in season). > > Sometimes the media can make things seem so real--like the *no > inflation* story that's making the rounds right now, or the finagling > of numbers so you can say *food is a smaller percentage of disposable > income*---now, just what does that mean to you? > > It means to me that you aren't alarmed about the cost of food and that > means you just aren't paying attention. > > I would encourage people who do shop to remark (if only to themselves) > on how much of their budget goes to food. --------------BAA4C030A17DAA4CE56714E7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Food is cheaper now than it has ever been! Look at the basics, flour, beans, rice, eggs, milk, meat etc, and compare how long it takes the average worker to earn enough income to buy these and you will have to agree. HOwever, when you go to the grocery store and look at the prepared foods that one can buy, you can think that the average meal cost is higher. There is a packaged pasta dinner that is sold at our local grocery store that consists of fresh pasta, a packet of sauce, and some precut strips of chicken. It sells for 9.99, and it says it will feed two-three people. If one would buy the individual components, I would think the price would be about 1/2.

    What we are often buying in the grocery store is manufactured food, and are paying for the factory labour and overhead to do what we have previously done at home. One can spend $40.00 a week for food, or $100/week, The choice is how much labour is included in what we buy.

    As for inflation being a problem, please enlighten us on just what products are increasing in price. There are always price hikes in things during periods of low inflation, such as know, don't take anecdotal stories and extrapolate them into the big picture.

    Gary Elliott
    Sylvan Organic Farm
    Parkhill, Ontario

    Cecile Mills wrote:

     
    From: "Bluestem Associates" <bluestem@webserf.net>
    Super Center on a Saturday afternoon and you will see that Larry
    Lunchbucket, Joe Sixpack, and Mr. & Mrs. Frontporch are quite content
    with the food system as it is currently structured. Their food costs
    them less and less (at the till, and as a percentage of their
    disposable income), and it's more and more convenient for them, every
    year.
    Althought Bluestem mentions *university in the '60s* my guess is he or she didn't do much shopping. Anyone who things food is less expensive now than even ten years ago must not spend much time or money in a grocery store. I am recalling George Bush's exclamation at a bar-code reader (What's that thing?), showing he didn't spend much time shopping for food either!

    Goodness, run out and buy some fish ($$$ more than in the '60s, '70s, '80s, and even early '90s as most is now raised on fish ranches as natural stock dies out in our pesticide-laden lakes, rivers, and bays) or vegetables (I just paid $1.39 for a head of lettuce, locally grown in season).

    Sometimes the media can make things seem so real--like the *no inflation* story that's making the rounds right now, or the finagling of numbers so you can say *food is a smaller percentage of disposable income*---now, just what does that mean to you?

    It means to me that you aren't alarmed about the cost of food and that means you just aren't paying attention.

    I would encourage people who do shop to remark (if only to themselves) on how much of their budget goes to food.

    --------------BAA4C030A17DAA4CE56714E7-- --------------0D28E7C1CCE947D56BF98396-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 4 15:45:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17519 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA18578 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18473 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.253.44.230] (H1306.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.44.20]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03863 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:51:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: cjb32@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199903271657.LAA25493@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:53:32 +0100 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Caitlin J Brady Subject: Farm Management, markets, and sustainability Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 308 Hi Saneters... a comment on a slightly old note. >On 26 Mar 99 22:50:33, Roberto Verzola wrote: > >>But you'll have to start asking yourself eventually what >>is it that is pushing sus ag farmers towards bankruptcy. Bluestem wrote: >Few farmers think like shareholders and CEOs, with the common result >that they make consistently poor allocations of capital and seriously >undermine the profitability of their business. I think you missed Roberto's key point. What you say is true... many farmers do not conform to corporate business methods, and therefore do not compete well in the system we have. They do need to know the basics of business management. I'm not trying to underestimate the importance of profitability. The point is that there may be something fundamentally wrong with the system we're using- something that directly conflicts with sustainable ag. I am happy that farmers don't act like shareholders... Not many NIKE shareholders think on moral or ethical grounds. Maybe they should. Sustainability in agriculture requires that we move beyond the shareholder/CEO mentality, and make decisions not only on the basis of efficient allocation of capital but also on the basis of other priorities and knowledge about acheiving these... Because the market often encourages us to ignore those other priorities, we must examine it's usefulness in promoting sustainable ag. It is for this reason that a discussion of alternative economic methods is germain. I also need to say this: market prices are distorted, and do not represent a true measure of scarcity. Reacting efficiently to market prices may be totally inefficient, given opportunity costs, effective costs or real, rather than percieved, scarcity of resources. Much of the lituriture says that (contrary to popular opinion) small farms (family sized) are much more efficient in their factor use if these concepts are taken into account, yet the market seems to point us in the direction of bigger equals better. ??? Cheers Roberto, I'm with you. Caitlin Brady To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Apr 4 10:21:10 1999 -0400 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14977 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA22932 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA00445; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:12:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00394 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:12:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Organic4um@aol.com Received: from Organic4um@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.3) id mDAFa01128 for Organic4um@aol.com; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:16:23 -0500 (EDT) Message-ID: <9c6d1a7d.2438ce37@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:16:23 EDT Subject: 3 days remain to comment on the National Academy of Science GM Cmte appointee To: Organic4um@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Organic4um@aol.com Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 309 >From the Organic Forum Facilitated by Eric Kindberg, certified organic farmer organic4um@aol.com April 2, 1999 If you would rather not receive this email Forum, please ask for removal. The concern here is the National Academy of Science is doing a fast track Committee review of GE in crops. "The committee will investigate the kinds of risks and benefits of genetically modified (GM) crops containing pesticide genes and the coordinated domestic federal regulatory framework affecting the development and use of these crops." There final report 8 months from now will have an impact on public policy worldwide. The National Academy of Science has asked for comments on their present Committee appointees and suggestions for other appointees. Three, 3, days remain to comment. This Organic Forum statement includes the resumes of the present Committee appointees and the scope of the GE project. If you have trouble reading the content because of line spacing, please enlarge your window to full size. It is clear without having received a response from the NAS on our email asking criteria for appointing members of the Committee, that one must have a historical track record related to working in and/or assessment of Genetic Engineering. Almost no organic farmer we know of would qualify except for Sally Fox of Fox Fibers and Alan Kapular of Seeds of Change. Since only 3 days remain to respond, we would suggest Suzanne Wuerthele of EPA, John Fagan of Genetic ID, Margaret Mellon or Jane Rissler of The Gene Exchange and the Union of Concerned Scientists along with Sally and Alan as potential members of the Committee. The Organic Forum would be interested in and encourages other names that would offer balance to the Committee and have a track record of GE work. Best regards, Eric Kindberg Reprint from P A N U P S > Pesticide Action Network Updates Service > =========================================== > > Action Alert: Comments Needed on NAS Biotech Panel > > March 31, 1999 > > The National Academy of Sciences (NAS) recently announced the > formation of a panel to conduct an urgent new study regarding > genetically modified crops containing pesticide genes, such as Bt > crops. The Academy has asked for public comment on the proposed > membership of the panel. There are serious problems with the > panel's composition, and we urge you to send comments to the > Academy by the April 6, 1999, deadline. > > The stated purposes of this study are to review data which address > the hypothesized risks and benefits of pesticidal crops; to examine > the U.S. regulatory framework in light of identified scientific risks > and benefits; to examine U.S. domestic regulatory framework to > qualitatively assess social and economic impacts of existing statutes; > and to provide recommendations on what research is needed to > address scientific risks/benefits and, if warranted, the regulatory > framework for genetically modified pest resistant plants. > > Studies by the NAS usually take about 18 months, but this study > will be conducted in a third of the time because of pressing > questions in need of answers, according to the study's director, > Michael Phillips. The urgency is apparently related to new > regulations being developed by the U.S. Environmental Protection > Agency (EPA) on pesticidal plants, including Bt crops. Reportedly, > a group of scientists who have been working in this field > approached NAS and requested such a study because they fear that > new EPA regulations may be too broad and restrictive. > Environmentalists, consumer groups and sustainable agriculture > organizations, however, feel that these regulations are not adequate > to protect public health and the environment from potential negative > impacts. > > Here are some general comments you can make in your letter to the > National Academy: > * The panel as it is currently constituted is weighted heavily in favor > of the biotechnology industry. The panel should be re-constituted to > reflect a full range of views of this technology. For example, the > committee should include agroecologists, population geneticists, > field ecologists and representatives of organic farming, > environmental and consumer interests. As presently composed, the > panel cannot address in a balanced manner the important and > complex tasks it has been assigned. > * The NAS must require panel members to divulge publicly conflict > of interest relationships with biotechnology firms, including > research contracts, consulting relationships, stock options and > clients. These conflicts must be published as part of the report. > > To view committee membership and to send comments online, go to > the current projects page of the National Academy website: > www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/CommitteeDisplay/BANR-O-99-02-A?OpenDocument. > > Be sure to cite the project identification number: BANR-O-99-02-A. > > You can also send comments by regular mail to: > > Michael Phillips, National Academy of Sciences, Board on > Agriculture and Natural Resources, Harris Bldg., Room 394, 2101 > Constitution Ave, NW, Washington, D.C. 20418 > > Sources: Council for Responsible Genetics Action Alert, March 30, > 1999. "Altered Crops Will Get Safety Review," St. Louis Post- > Dispatch, March 19, 1999. > > Contact: PANNA. > > =========================================== > Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) > 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA > Phone: (415) 981-1771 > Fax: (415) 981-1991 > Email: panna@panna.org > Web: www.panna.org > > To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org > with the following text on one line: subscribe panups > To unsubscribe, use: unsubscribe panups > =========================================== Committee Membership More Project Information Project Name: Committee on Genetically Modified Crops Containing Pesticide Genes Project Identification Number: BANR-O-99-02-A Responsible Staff Officer: Mike Phillips Major Unit: Board on Agriculture SubUnit: Committee Membership: Date Posted: 03/17/99 Perry Adkisson (chair), Chancellor Emeritus and Distinguished Professor Emeritus, Texas A&M University Dr. Adkisson is known as the father of integrated pest management and was awarded the World Food Prize in 1997 for his significant contributions in plant protection. As Chancellor of the Texas A&M University System, Dr. Adkisson provided extraordinary leadership in a major agricultural state in meeting the needs of state clientele and at the same time developing the university into a world class research institution. He has had a distinguished career as a researcher, educator, and administrator. Dr. Adkisson was elected to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) in 1979 for his cutting-edge research in entomology and integrated pest management programs. He has served on a number of National Research Council (NRC) boards and commissions including Board on Agriculture and Natural Resources, Food and Nutrition Board, Commission on Life Sciences, and several NAS/NRC ad hoc committees. Dr. Adkisson received his Ph.D. in entomology from Kansas State University in 1956. Stanley Abramson, Member, Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn, Washington, DC Mr. Abramson's law practice is focused on biotechnology, food safety and environmental law. He works extensively with risk assessment and risk management issues and assists clients with obtaining regulatory approvals for agricultural, industrial and consumer products, including products of genetic engineering. Mr. Abramson represents clients in federal and state enforcement proceedings and defends products before regulatory agencies and the courts. He is the past Associate General Counsel for Pesticides and Toxic Substances at EPA and a principal author of the federal government's Coordinated Framework for Regulation of Biotechnology. Mr. Abramson received his J.D. from Rutgers University. Stephen Baezinger, Eugene W. Price Professor, Department of Agronomy, University of Nebraska Dr. Baezinger's research interests focus on cultivar and germplasm development for small grains and improved breeding methodology. New breeding methods include use of tissue culture, genetic engineering, cytogenetic stocks, molecular markers, and statistical designs. Dr. Baezinger has had experience as a plant breeder in industry and with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. He obtained his B.A. in biochemical sciences at Harvard University and his M.S. and Ph.D. in plant breeding and genetics from Purdue University. Fred Betz, Senior Scientist, Jellinek, Schwartz & Connolly, Arlington, VA Mr. Betz directs the biotechnology and biopesticides practice for this environmental consulting firm. He advises companies in regulatory strategy, provides technical advice on biopesticide matters, and assists with product registrations. These registrations include several of the first genetically engineered plant pesticides and the first genetically engineered microbial pesticides. Mr. Betz was the principal scientist and regulatory specialist at EPA, where he was responsible for biopesticide risk assessment and biotechnology policy. He received his M.S. in environmental engineering from the University of Florida. William Fry, Professor, Plant Pathology Department, Cornell University Dr. Fry conducts research on the integrated management and epidemiology of fungal pathogens. Areas of research emphasis include: integrated management of potato late blight; epidemiology of potato late blight; genetics of Phytophthora infestans and its interaction with host plants; and population genetics and migrations of P. infestans. Dr. Fry's research also involves genetic analysis and modeling for the detection of plant and pathogen resistance. He is a Fellow of the American Phytopathological Society and a Past President of the Society. Dr. Fry received his Ph.D. from Cornell University in 1970. Fred Gould, William Neal Reynolds Professor, Department of Entomology, North Carolina State University Dr. Gould's expertise is in the ecological, genetic, and chemical aspects of plant/herbivore interactions. In particular, he is conducting seminal work on resistance management strategies for transgenic crops containing Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) insecticidal genes. Dr. Gould has served on several NRC committees including the Committee on the Future Role of Pesticides in Agriculture and on the Committee on Biological Pest and Pathogen Control. He was involved in the NRC report titled Ecologically Based Pest Management: New Solutions for a New Century (1995). Dr. Gould received his Ph.D. from SUNY at Stony Brook in 1977. Ernest Hodgson, William Neal Reynolds Professor of Toxicology, North Carolina State University Dr. Hodgson's areas of expertise are pesticide metabolism and toxicology. In particular, his lab studies the induction and mechanism of human and rodent cytochrome P450 isoforms in oxidizing agricultural chemicals. Dr. Hodgson has authored well-known basic textbooks of toxicology, A Textbook of Modern Toxicology and An Introduction to Biochemical Toxicology. He served on the NRC committee which authored the report Carcinogens and Anticarcinogens in the Human Diet: A Comparison of Naturally Occurring and Synthetic Substances (1996) and is the editor of the Journal of Biochemical and Molecular Toxicology. Dr Hodgson received his Ph.D. in Biochemistry from Oregon State University in 1960. Tobi Jones, Special Assistant for Special Projects and Public Outreach, Department of Pesticide Regulation, California Environmental Protection Agency Dr. Jones is recognized as a national expert in state and federal pesticide regulatory programs, and emerging regulatory issues affecting genetically engineered organisms. She has a strong working knowledge of evolving biotechnology regulation and genetic engineering issues. Dr. Jones is an experienced manager of science-based regulatory programs, serves as the state agency's representative at the national level, and chairs the national committee of state pesticide officials that advises U.S. EPA on federal-state partnership issues. Dr. Jones received her Ph.D. in microbiology from Northwestern University. Brian Larkins, Porterfield Professor of Plant Sciences, Department of Plant Sciences, University of Arizona Dr. Larkins was elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 1996 for his outstanding research on the control of gene expression and protein synthesis during seed development in maize. His current work involves studying mutations that alter the synthesis of maize seed storage proteins and has important implications for increasing the nutritional quality of grains. Dr. Larkins has published extensively in prestigious journals such as Science and PNAS. He received his Ph.D. from the University of Nebraska. Morris Levin, Professor, University of Maryland and Biotechnology Institute's Center for Public Issues in Biotechnology Dr. Levin has extensive experience with risk assessment for genetically engineered organisms both in the federal government and in academia. He has been employed by the Department of Defense and the Department of Interior as an environmental microbiologist. Dr. Levins was in Biotechnology Risk Assessment at the EPA and continues to do risk assessment research at the University of Maryland. He has edited several books including the recent publication Engineered Organisms in Environmental Settings: Biotechnological and Agricultural Applications (1996). Dr. Levin received his Ph.D. in Bacteriology and Biophysics from the University of Rhode Island. Erik Lichtenberg, Professor, Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics, University of Maryland Dr. Lichtenberg has conducted extensive research on productivity and environmental tradeoffs of pesticide regulation, economics of pesticide regulation, and risk-reducing and risk-increasing effects of pesticide regulation. He has served as the Senior Agricultural and Natural Resources Economist on the President's Council of Economic Advisers, as a consultant to the pesticide industry and to EPA, and as an advisor to USDA and EPA. Dr. Lichtenberg received his Ph.D. in agricultural and resource economics from the University of California at Berkeley. Allison Snow, Associate Professor, Department of Evolution, Ecology, and Organismal Biology, Ohio State University Dr. Snow has conducted important research on gene flow and hybridization in several crop-weed systems. Her lab uses molecular techniques to investigate transgene escape to weedy relatives of crops. Dr. Snow's current research focuses on the effects of transgenic insect resistance on herbivory and fitness in wild sunflowers. Dr. Snow has published extensively on the ecological implications of genetically modified crops and has been an associate editor for the journals Ecology and Evolution. She served on the steering committee for the recent USDA Workshop on the Ecological Effects of Pest Resistance Genes in Managed Ecosystems. Dr. Snow received her Ph.D. in Botany from the University of Massachusetts in 1982. Brian Staskawicz, Professor, Department of Plant and Microbial Biology, University of California, Berkeley Dr. Staskawicz's work has greatly contributed to understanding the molecular interactions between plants and their pathogens. He was recently elected to the National Academy of Sciences for elucidating the mechanisms of disease resistance, as his lab was the first to clone an avirulence gene from a pathogen and among the first to demonstrate the interaction of plant resistance genes with genes from plant pathogens. Dr. Staskawicz's research focuses on the interaction of the bacteria, Pseudomonas and Xanthomonas, with Arabidopsis, tomato and pepper. He has published extensively in this area in journals such as Science, PNAS, and Nature. Dr. Staskawicz received his Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley in 1980. Comment on Committee Membership The public comment period lasts twenty days from date of Committee Membership Posting. You have 4 day(s) remaining to provide comments. We welcome your feedback on the Committee Membership. You must copy the Project Identification Number at the top of this form, and then paste it into your feedback message. - Committee on Genetically Modified Crops Containing Pesticide Genes Project identification number BANR-O-99-02-A ______________________________________________________________________________ ____ . Contact the Public Access Records office of the National Research Council Library to make an inquiry or to schedule an appointment to view project materials available to the public. ______________________________________________________________________________ ______ - Project Scope - Meetings: Meeting 1- 04/08/99 Project Scope More Project Information Committee on Genetically Modified Crops Containing Pesticide Genes Project Identification Number: BANR-O-99-02-A Responsible Staff Officer: Mike Phillips Major Unit: Board on Agriculture Sub Unit: Project Scope: The committee will investigate the kinds of risks and benefits of genetically modified (GM) crops containing pesticide genes and the coordinated domestic federal regulatory framework affecting the development and use of these crops. The study will 1) review the principles in the NAS Council's white paper, "Introduction of rDNA-Engineered Organisms into the Environment"(1987), for their scientific validity and assess their appropriateness for current decisions regarding GM crops containing pesticide genes, 2) review data which addresses the hypothesized risks and benefits of these crops, 3) examine the domestic regulatory framework in light of the identified scientific risks and benefits, 4) examine the domestic regulatory framework to qualitatively assess the social and economic impacts of existing statutes, and 5) provide recommendations on research needed to address the scientific risks/benefits and, if warranted, on the regulatory framework for genetically modified pest resistant plants. Project Duration: 8 months From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Apr 4 16:47:36 1999 -0400 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA18171 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03236 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 16:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14475; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:38:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14393 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:37:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool040-max14.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.4.90]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16916; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990404133732.008efa20@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:37:32 -0700 To: Organic4um@aol.com From: Fred Chambers Subject: RE: 3 days remain... In-Reply-To: <9c6d1a7d.2438ce37@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 310 Hey y'all, Here's a copy of my short note to the National Academy of Science. The link in the post I received did not work for me (watch those line breaks). I pasted one right below here that should work. :) Fred Visit this site, and write a note of your own! ------my note starts like this----- Michael Phillips National Academy of Sciences Board on Agriculture and Natural Resources Harris Bldg., Room 394, 2101 Constitution Ave, NW Washington, D.C. 20418 Hello Michael, I am writing about the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) announcement of the urgent formation of a study panel on genetically modified crops containing pesticide genes. Refer to: BANR-O-99-02-A. I am concerned that the current panel could be seen as biased. I wholeheartedly recommend that people from the organic farming industry, conservation geneticist/ecologists, and a couple of statistician be included. Possible candidates could be Dr Victor L Weggerzyn and Dr Diana L Jerkins of California State Polytechnic University Pomona's Sustainable Agriculture program. Contact the department by calling: (909) 869-7659. They may have a number of other experts for committee inclusion, as well as themselves. Furthermore, the current panel seems very light on Californians. California is the number one state in the US agriculture industry, and should have a higher-percentage of panelists. Moreover, with modern attentions to ethics, I expect all panelists to wear their alliances and conflicts of interest on their sleeves, as it were. Any report from this committee must list in detail each member's ties to interests in the genetic engineering industry and agribusiness. Thank you for reading this, Fred Chambers Sustainable Aquaculture student Cal Poly Pomona Class of '99 470 Lucera Ct. #110 Phillips Hog Ranch Pomona, CA 91766 From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 09:22:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01782 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA17026 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:33:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA16955 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ddworley (ppp178.201dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.201.178]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA21914; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:33:56 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:35:12 -0300 To: seaseal@got.net From: Daniel Worley Subject: Re: food costs Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <370747C3.D0CAF8E7@got.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 311 At 04:06 4/4/99 -0700, you wrote:
    Althought Bluestem mentions *university in the '60s* my guess is he or she didn't do much shopping. Anyone who things food is less expensive now than even ten years ago must not spend much time or money in a grocery store. I am recalling George Bush's exclamation at a bar-code reader (What's that thing?), showing he didn't spend much time shopping for food either!

    Goodness, run out and buy some fish ($$$ more than in the '60s, '70s, '80s, and even early '90s as most is now raised on fish ranches as natural stock dies out in our pesticide-laden lakes, rivers, and bays) or vegetables (I just paid $1.39 for a head of lettuce, locally grown in season).

    =A0 You made me do some thinking and calculations.=A0 I don't do much of the food shopping myself these days, but I do handle the budget and allocate the funds.=A0 We spend under 10% of total gross income on food and although we don't eat like Royalty, the three of us do fairly well.=A0 I eat more steak than my doctor would like and we do have fish several times a month as well as lots of chicken, pork, and lots of fresh (and canned) veggees.=A0 And...very little of that come from my own production as I am raising only fruits now.

    =A0 At one time (when there were a few more mouths to feed) back in the 60's and 70's, we spent a much higher percentage of total income on food.=A0 But, there were more of us, and less income.

    =A0 Just my three cents worth.




      --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico--
       dan.worley@mindless.com
    To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 09:47:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02129 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA29712 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:53:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29700 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:54:35 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'PamMurray'" Subject: FW: March-April 1999 CSAS Newsletter Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:54:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 312 Forwarded: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Pam Murray Subject: March-April 1999 CSAS Newsletter March-April 1999 CSAS Newsletter The Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems (CSAS) in the Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources (IANR) at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln (UNL) is an interdisciplinary center formed in 1991 for the purpose of bringing together people and resources to promote an agriculture that is efficient, competitive, profitable, environmentally and socially sustainable for the indefinite future. The electronic version of this bimonthly newsletter is sent to SANET and PENPages 10-14 days before those on our mailing list receive their hard copy. The newsletters are also available along with other sustainable ag information on our World Wide Web page: http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas. Note: The electronic version is not sent to individual e-mail addresses. To be added to the "hard copy" newsletter mailing list beginning with the next bimonthly issue (not sent to overseas addresses), or for questions or comments, contact the newsletter editor, Pam Murray, Coordinator, Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, PO Box 830949, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, NE 68583-0949, 402-472-2056, fax -4104, e-mail: csas001@unlvm.unl.edu. Comments about the content or usefulness of this newsletter are always welcome. * * * CONTENTS: WE CAME! WE SAW! WE HEARD! UNIVERSITY ROLE IN BIOTECHNOLOGY: WHO BENEFITS FROM NEW TECHNOLOGIES? (Second in Series) HIGHLIGHTS OF UPCOMING BOOK: UNDER THE BLADE (Sixth in Series) STUDY FINDS CONSOLIDATION HARMS NATION'S CONSUMERS AND FARMERS NATIONAL AG BIOTECH MEETING IN LINCOLN NORDIC AGROECOLOGY COURSE WELCOMES STUDENTS AGROECOLOGY FIELD COURSE OFFERED RESOURCES COMING EVENTS DID YOU KNOW? * * * WE CAME! WE SAW! WE HEARD! In response to concerns within the College of Agriculture and on the part of agricultural and natural resources stakeholders, the Nebraska Legislature passed LB 149 in 1973, establishing the University of Nebraska Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources (IANR). The Institute officially began April 1, 1974, and over the past year stakeholders, students, faculty, staff, and administrators have been celebrating IANR's 25th Anniversary. One of the celebration events was a series of 24 "Listening Sessions" held on the campus and at various locations throughout the state. The intent was to get participants' views in regard to the events and issues that impact the quality of life of Nebraskans now and into the future. The information received from more than 600 participants provides input for determining IANR's program priorities, operations improvement, and strategic and action planning. In addition, the sessions provided a discussion forum with IANR administrators. The following are general themes participants offered and a sampling of comments and questions pertaining to sustainable systems. In general, participants supported IANR's programs in agriculture, agribusiness, natural resources and human resources. Considerable support was expressed for several areas including research, extension, leadership education and student programs. The participants look to IANR for vision, leadership, and as a source of unbiased information. We heard! Nebraska Economy. Questions were raised in regard to the sustainability of the livestock economy, which represents about 65% of the value of the state's cash receipts from agriculture. Issues included the trends in concentration, vertical integration, environmental impacts, and the uncertain global demand. Stable, profitable income potential in agriculture is a primary concern. Water Quality and Quantity. Water continues to be important as participants discussed protecting the environment. The environmental concerns appeared to be more mainstream as compared to being the concern of a few participants. Scenarios regarding water distribution among irrigation, stream flows, community and industrial uses received considerable attention. People and Communities. Nebraska's population is aging, and there are shifts to urban and trade center locations. Rural community viability is a concern. Quality jobs and getting young people started in farming are issues. Compared to similar discussions held in 1994, there was a notable increase in family, children, youth, multiple jobs, nutrition, and related people concerns. Education. The participants strongly support increased extended education programs and strengthened student recruiting in all areas of the state. "The University should encourage all students - not just the very top academic performers." Stronger University linkages with K-12 schools and community and state colleges were suggested. Research. Participants expressed a need for continued basic and applied research. We heard several times that unbiased information is vital in evaluating commercial products, and it helps to reduce the uncertainties that result from information voids. Lack of Control. Participants expressed concern with the increasing number of uncertainties and complexities such as global markets, regulations, changing rural landscapes, and outside capital buying into farming and ranching. As one farmer said, "I look back to the time when my biggest concerns were hoping that it would rain and insect problems." The participants expressed an interest in some form of state spending lid. We heard about the need for more working sustainable models. The following are some participant comments and questions. - Partnerships with the Natural Resource Districts, state and federal water, wildlife and conservation agencies are important. Do more! - Water quality research and education is vital. We need more research on environmentally friendly pesticides and fertilizers. - There is an increased interest in organic production and certification. Will IANR increase its efforts in this area? - The sustainability of many of our rural communities is a most critical issue. We need information, leadership, and quality jobs. - The move to mega hog enterprises raises serious environmental, ecological, social and economic sustainability issues. - Cropping systems need to be assessed on environmental impacts - not just yields; sustainable production is a major issue. - Sustainability and the related environmental issues will be major challenges over the next ten years. - There is the need to do research and consider alternative sources of energy including the wind and lightning. - Niche markets and different marketing initiatives offer increased opportunities for organic farmers and gardeners. - We need more systems analyses in IANR and an understanding of the integration of the social, physical and biological sciences. - An immediate issue is the sustainability of farm and ranch families. - How do we get young farmers started and keep them in farming? - Sustainability and environmental compatibility need to be integral in most all IANR teaching, research, and extension programs. I was a discussion leader at all of the "Listening Sessions." It was a pleasure to meet with the participants who had a wide range of interests and experiences. Many expressed appreciation that University representatives made the effort to meet with them and listen to their concerns and questions. In my view, the "Listening Sessions" have been the high point in IANR's Silver Anniversary celebration. Submitted by Glen Vollmar UNIVERSITY ROLE IN BIOTECHNOLOGY: WHO BENEFITS FROM NEW TECHNOLOGIES? Second in a Series. There is growing debate about the emerging role of universities in research and applications of biotechnology. Current interest and investment in production and use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) have sparked a revolution in university research laboratories and fields. Perhaps no single set of new techniques and potential technologies has caused such a substantial short-term shift in focus of people and resources in universities. We hope that encouraging debate within the university community and among our clients will help inform people of the issues and aid in charting a rational strategy for the future. Focus on Technology There has been a near-singular focus by agricultural researchers on increasing production and the returns to land, labor, and other inputs in the production process. In the last article we raised two questions, one on the current limitations to farm income and community viability, and the other on who benefits from technologies. If low productivity is indeed a constraint and we can improve farm income by removing some of the biological or technical reasons that keep yields low, it follows that we can contribute to improving the situation by more production research. Most of us in agricultural research are trained to do just that. However, there is the danger that we will continue to do what we know how to do, will continue to be rewarded by our peers and by funding sources to do what we do well, and will completely miss the mark on what is needed to solve the real problems of income of farm families and stability of farming communities. It is most comfortable to follow the well-worn path. The route is well marked, and the destination seems clear. We are treading more rapidly, perhaps publishing more successfully, because we have more tools and support than many who went before us. Yet we need to be sure where that path leads. Production research had obvious benefits to farmers, communities, and the general public for much of this century. Now we should see whether things have changed. Impacts of New Technologies Studying the social impacts of new technologies is not a new area of analysis for social scientists. Since hybrid corn was introduced in Iowa, social scientists have been evaluating the social implications of the adoption of specific technologies. These analyses were often conducted after the fact, following the introduction and adoption of specific technologies. Yet, these studies also provide the scientific methodology for more creative ways to examine the social impacts of new technologies before they are introduced. This can help guide our decisions about what types of research are most important for the university. Social Impact Analysis provides the tools to examine several aspects of impacts of new technologies such as GMOs. The questions generally addressed include: How does this new technology influence the population base? Does the technology force an out-migration, an in-migration, or a change in population structure? How does the new technology influence the equity with which the benefits of the new technology accrue? Do the elite gain additional control over resources, or are resources distributed across the complete social system? What is the impact of the new technology on community structure? Will local institutions be impacted - changing the decision-making process? This is often tied to an externally directed change in the power structure. How does the new technology impact the culture of a community, region or nation? Culture provides those guidelines as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Does the adoption of GMOs change the norms of a community? Norms within many rural communities still see one of agricultural producers' roles as stewardship of the land. Does the adoption of GMOs change these norms? In rural areas, does the adoption of GMOs alter the blueprint of what is right or wrong in how we farm? Does the adoption of these new technologies change the attitudes of farmers in how they deal with each other or with customers of their products? The values associated with food production influence behavior among agricultural producers and residents in adjacent communities, as well as their relationship with and the attitudes of the general public. As a social scientist examines the social impact of new technologies, other questions need to be included in the analysis. These include the impact on family relations. While this may seem trivial, the family is the primary socialization agent and changes in technologies may influence the process of socialization of children. What does this mean for the future? What does it mean for the encouragement and support of the next generation of farmers, and who will control the land? Issues of Equity The questions of equity are imbedded in many of the aspects of social impact assessment. Long-term sustainability is linked to social justice. Given that food and fiber production is both a private and public function, and that the natural resource base is a public good, then it is important for scientists to examine the public side as well as the private side of the adoption of new technologies. With a social impact assessment methodology, it is possible to examine the secondary impacts of the adoption of new technologies such as GMOs. Ethical questions abound as we think about who benefits from research and who loses. As a land-grant university, is the goal to create a research base strictly for individual gain, or are there societal and global needs that may be greater, and are these really served by the current model? If this is the case, research aimed at evaluating the social, environmental, and economic impacts of new technologies must be undertaken. We no longer live in a world of continued expansion - the world of many agricultural producers of the early 1900s. We have experimented with intensive farm production to make up for the damage caused by an agricultural system based on exploitation and expansion of acreages. The moral issues are becoming clearer as we continue to explore in which directions our research will go. The issues of social impact are at the core of many of the decisions made by researchers. Our current system is built on the assumption that what is good for one is good for all. We need to carefully examine this assumption in light of concentration of land and resources, both in the farming sector and in industry. We already have a great deal of literature showing that concentration, centralization and depopulation have negative impacts on rural people and the environment. We also have studies that indicate patterns of change in rural attitudes as producers view themselves as "managers" versus "farmers." The implications for communities, rural residents, food safety, and environmental integrity should be central to our decision making in the university. The question of who benefits is one that can be researched, and it should have high priority for our institution. Next newsletter: Who owns genes and diversity? Submitted by John Allen, Charles Francis HIGHLIGHTS OF UPCOMING BOOK: UNDER THE BLADE This is the sixth and final article in a series that has been highlighting information in a book titled Under the Blade: The Conversion of Agricultural Landscapes. Information in this article is from a chapter by the book's co-editors Richard Olson (University of Nebraska-Lincoln) and Tom Lyson (Cornell University) and by Allen Olson (University of Arkansas). Additional authors who contributed chapters in the book are from universities around the country. For more information, contact Richard Olson at the CSAS office, or e-mail him at csas005@unlvm.unl.edu. To order the book, see the Resources section of this newsletter. Policy Recommendations for Preserving Agricultural Landscapes Few people would define their vision of the preferred future of the United States as sprawling development, degraded landscapes, gridlocked roads, decaying inner cities, and an increasing reliance on other countries for energy and even food. Yet that is what we are moving toward, a function of what some have referred to as the tyranny of small decisions. A five-acre homesite here, a small subdivision there, and elsewhere the paving of a gravel road - each action is of little significance by itself, but the cumulative effect is very significant. Overall, we seem to be using our wealth and power in a mindless frenzy of consumerism, wanting more and bigger of everything, including roads, houses, building lots, and a place in the country with two (or more) SUVs parked in the drive. An editor of the Charlotte Observer referred to the "orgiastic devouring of countryside" occurring around his city, a description that applies to the urban-rural fringe of most U.S. cities. Many local governments, land trusts, and other citizen groups are attempting to preserve agricultural lands. However, a general theme emerging from 21 case studies of towns, counties, and states throughout the U.S. is that most regions face tremendous threats to farmland and rural landscapes, and current preservation efforts are often inadequate. Quotes from the case studies illustrate the problems and negative trends: - Barriers to maintaining the SE Pennsylvania food and farm system currently outweigh the opportunities. Changes in policies, programs, attitudes, and behavior are required for agriculture to survive. - Significant negative changes have occurred in western Washington's agricultural resource base, despite the many farmland protection strategies in place in the 14 counties.... Western Washington's farmland protection programs have been ineffective. - Planning, zoning, and special tax laws have failed to protect prime agricultural land in Waukesha County [Wisconsin]. In late 1996, virtually the entire County is zoned for development, and it appears as if the majority of agricultural lands remaining will soon be lost forever. - The future of, and the ability for, agricultural production in Lake County [Florida] have been forever changed. The necessary infrastructure for agricultural production is disappearing... Even Oregon, whose land use and farmland protection program is among the strongest in the country, has fallen short of its goals during the past 20 years as graded by the citizen group 1000 Friends of Oregon. The group's conclusion is that Oregon's "land use laws are not strong enough or working well enough to protect our quality of life." Local efforts to preserve agricultural landscapes face many barriers. A state or federal decision on the placement of a new highway can completely override a town's desire as to where growth should occur. Development in one community can spill into neighboring towns. The addition of 2.6 million people in the U.S. each year is creating overwhelming pressures. Collapsing global commodity prices make agricultural uses of land even less competitive against non-agricultural uses. Local planning boards are often strongly influenced by developers who have a huge financial interest in subverting farmland protection efforts, and zoning and other laws are often perceived as impermanent and vulnerable to legal challenges. In 1973, Congress debated the Land Use Policy and Planning Assistance Act, which would have required the states to develop comprehensive statewide land use plans. The bill passed the Senate but was narrowly defeated in the House of Representatives. In today's political climate, such a national mandate is impossible, but there is much that the federal government could do to increase the chances of success for local farmland preservation efforts. Some examples are: - Adopt a national policy of stabilizing U.S. population. - Strengthen the Federal Farmland Protection Policy Act to require that federally-funded infrastructure projects be designed to minimize both direct and indirect losses of farmland. - Through legislation and court actions, promote a restrictive definition of a regulatory taking so that zoning for exclusive farmland use is not considered a takings. - Revise estate tax laws to exclude from a decedent's taxable estate 100% of the value of farmland encumbered with a permanent conservation easement. - Conduct a thorough review of the direct and indirect effects of federal laws and policies on farmland loss, and require a similar analysis of state laws. STUDY FINDS CONSOLIDATION HARMS NATION'S CONSUMERS AND FARMERS A small number of dominant "clusters" of firms control the decision-making throughout all levels of the U.S. food chain, threatening America's system of independent family farms and ranches, according to a new report, prepared by Dr. William Heffernan, a rural sociologist at the University of Missouri, and unveiled February 10 by the National Farmers Union. The study details the relationships forming the three major clusters - Cargill/Monsanto, ConAgra, and Novartis/ADM - which now dominate the food system. Some of the study's findings are: - The complexity of the linkages in the system undermines market competition and makes it difficult to measure. The network of relationships is creating a seamless system with little market transparency along the various stages of the food system. Because of the complexity, a firm that does not hold a majority share of a specific market may still have great decision-making power within the food chain. - Technological advances are accelerating the process of vertical integration. Biotechnology and the terminator gene have put the farmer at the mercy of the food cluster for seed to plant the crop. Also, precision farming's global positioning system separates management from the production of agriculture. With this technology, it is possible for "managers" in distant offices to make decisions about farm production, while producers simply become laborers. - The new structure threatens independent producers. The clusters influence opportunities all along the food chain - from production inputs to global trade - which severely hampers producers' ability to earn a fair return on their product. It also erodes the independence of producers by shifting major decision-making to a handful of firms. - The new structure is harming rural communities because corporate returns are reinvested in the firm, rather than in local economies where the goods are produced. Details of the study are online at http://www.nfu.org/Newsroom/NewsRelease/newsRelease.cfm?NRID=16#Study. NATIONAL AG BIOTECH MEETING IN LINCOLN The National Agricultural Biotechnology Council (NABC), in collaboration with the University of Nebraska-Lincoln and the Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture, is sponsoring a symposium entitled World Food Security and Sustainability: The Impacts of Biotechnology and Industrial Consolidation, to be held in Lincoln, Nebraska, June 6-8, 1999. Readers of this newsletter will recognize the names of many of the presenters, including Fred Kirschenmann, Cornelia Flora, Dennis Avery, Chuck Hassebrook, and William Heffernan. NABC provides an open forum for exploring issues in agricultural biotechnology. All plenary sessions are free and open to the public. All workshop sessions require registration and a fee. Early registration (on or before April 15) is $175; after that it is $200. Proceedings will be available free of charge in Spring 2000. For more information, contact the Center for Biotechnology, 402-472-2635, or see http://www.cals.cornell.edu/extension/nabc/webmeeting.html. NORDIC AGROECOLOGY COURSE WELCOMES STUDENTS An intensive one-semester course in Agroecology will be introduced starting in August 1999 at NLH, Norway. See http://www.agsci.kvl.dk/coem/NOVA/MSC.html. AGROECOLOGY FIELD COURSE OFFERED The North Central Institute for Sustainable Systems will offer the second annual for-credit field course, Agroecosystems Analysis, August 13-20, 1999 in the northwest Iowa area. Contact the CSAS office for details, or see http://www.ag.iastate.edu/departments/agronomy/nciss/. RESOURCES Under the Blade: The Conversion of Agricultural Landscapes. 1999. $25. Examines the patterns, causes and consequences of current land use decisions in the U.S. Looks at farmland loss from several perspectives, and then integrates the results into policy recommendations (see related article in this newsletter). Westview Press, 5500 Central Ave., Boulder, CO 80301-2877, 303-444-3541. To order a $5 course examination copy, call 1-800-386-5656. Natural Beef: Consumer Acceptability, Market Development and Economics. Free. Presents sample marketing plan and four case studies for farmers and ranchers interested in grass-fed beef production and marketing. Linda Fugitt, UC SAREP, One Shields Ave., U. of California, Davis, CA 95616, 530-752-7552. Field Grown Cut Flowers: A Practical Guide and Sourcebook. $39.95 + $5 s&h.Wisconsin grower John Hurd worked with Kansas State U. floriculture specialist Alan Stevens to produce a 400-page book detailing production and marketing of flowers and ornamentals. Call 800-884-4730. Clues to Rural Community Survival. 1999. $15. Profiles 18 successful communities ranging in size from 300 to 35,000, mostly in the Midwest and Great Plains, and includes new information about the Heartland Center for Leadership Development's widely acclaimed characteristics of thriving small towns. Call the Center to order: 800-927-1115 or 402-474-7667. Organizing Your Community Against Large-Scale Animal Feedlot Pollution, and A Citizen's Guide to The Environmental Review Process for Large-Scale Livestock Operations. $7 ea. MN Clean Water Action, 326 Hennepin Ave. E., Minneapolis, MN 55414, 612-623-3666. Getting Food on the Table: An Action Guide to Local Food Policy. 1999. $12. Provides overview of U.S. city and county policies and programs that affect community food security. Profiles nine organizations, offers basic organizing information, identifies potential project funders, and recommends resources. Community Food Security Coalition, PO Box 209, Venice, CA 90294, 310-822-5410, http://www.foodsecurity.org. Holding Our Ground: Protecting America's Farms and Farmland. 1997. $34.95. Discusses reasons for protecting farmland and methods to advocate for farmland preservation. Analyzes federal, state, and local protection efforts and techniques. Explores land protection options such as purchasing development rights and private land trusts. Island Press, Box 7, Dept. 2AU, Covelo, CA 95428, 800-828-1302, info@islandpress.org, http://www.islandpress.com/islandpress/index.html. Final Results of the Third Biennial National Organic Farmer's Survey. 1999. Compiles survey findings from 4,638 organic farmers. Prioritizes their perceived needs for organic farming research, ranks usefulness of production resources, ranks products grown as well as marketing outlets. Gives an overview of organic management strategies utilized and examines constraints and challenges to organic production. Executive Summary available online. Organic Farming Research Foundation, PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061, 831-426-6606, email research@afrf.org, http://www.ofrf.org/. Making the Transition to Organic Farming, Conference Proceedings, University of Guelph, January 29-31, 1999. $10. Workshops include weed management, soil fertility, getting your farm certified, permaculture, community supported agriculture and more. Tomas Nimmo, Conference Coordinator, Box 116, Collingwood, Ontario, Canada, L9Y 3Z4, 705-444-0923, email organix@georgian.net; http://www.gks.com/OrgConf/. 1999 National Organic Directory. $47.95 + $3 s&h. Community Alliance with Family Farmers, PO Box 363, Davis, CA 95617, 1-800-852-3832. Food Bytes. E-mail newsletter that provides news and analysis on genetic engineering, factory farming and organics. Looks at the influence of powerful agribusiness trade associations as in the case of the EPA's brochure on food safety and pesticides. To subscribe, send an email to majordomo@mr.net with the message: subscribe pure-food-action. For more information, contact Campaign for Food Safety/Organic Consumers Association, 860 Hwy 61, Little Marais, MN 55614, 218-226-4164, alliance@mr.net, http://www.purefood.org. The Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy has initiated a listserv on agriculture and climate change. To subscribe, send an e-mail to listserv@iatp.org with the message: subscribe ag_climate. Direct questions or comments to Mark Muller at IATP, 612-870-3420, mmuller@iatp.org. COMING EVENTS Contact CSAS office for more information. 1999 June-Sep. - Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society tours throughout NE June 6-8 - National Agricultural Biotechnology Council Meeting - World Food Security and Sustainability: The Impacts of Biotechnology and Industrial Consolidation, Lincoln, NE http://www.cals.cornell.edu/extension/nabc/webmeeting.html June 12-16 - 6th Conference on Agroforestry in North America: Sustainable Land-Use Management for the 21st Century, Hot Springs, AR, tclason@agctr.lsu.edu http://www.missouri.edu/~afta/Sixth_Conf.html June 14-16 - XXVIII International Congress Work Sciences in Sustainable Agriculture, Horsens, Denmark, http://www.sp.dk/~cgs/ciosta/ Aug. 8-11 - Soil and Water Conservation Society Annual Conference, Biloxi, MS Aug. 9-10 - Amaranth Institute 1999 Meeting, Omaha, NE Aug. 9-13 - Nebraska Forestry Shortcourse, Chadron, NE Aug. 9/14/17 - Organic Grain Farming Workshops, Randolph/Aurora/Clarkson, NE Aug. 24 - Alternative Ag Expo: Diverse Systems that Work, South Sioux City, NE Oct. 12-15 - Second National Small Farm Conference: Building Partnerships for the 21st Century, St. Louis, MO Oct. 20-23 - North American Chapter Association for Farming Systems Research and Extension (AFSR/E) Biennial Meeting - Sustaining Agriculture in the 21st Century: Thinking "Outside the Box," Guelph, Ontario, CA, (abstracts due Apr. 1), http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/ For additional events, see: http://www.sare.org/wreg/view_notice_adm.pl http://www.agnic.org/mtg/ DID YOU KNOW? Nebraska highlights from National 1997 Census of Agriculture: 51,454 farms in Nebraska, down 2.8% from 1992; average size 885 acres, up from 839 in 1992; all Nebraska farms with annual sales of less than $50,000 had combined annual marketings of $403 million, or 4.1% of the state's total sales, yet they accounted for 49% of all Nebraska farms. At the other end, 4.9% of Nebraska farms had annual sales of at least $500,000, accounting for more than 55% of Nebraska's agricultural marketings. For more, see http://www.nass.usda.gov/census/census97/highlights/ne/ne.htm. Celebrate Earth Day April 22! *********************** Pam Murray, Coordinator Center for Grassland Studies and Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems PO Box 830949 University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 phone: 402-472-9383 fax: 402-472-4104 e-mail: csas001@unlvm.unl.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 10:38:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02895 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:38:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA03419 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:49:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03367 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05111 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA13782; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3708C040.5C247589@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:53:04 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: joel b gruver , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: estimating total organic inputs to soil under different cropping systems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 313 Joel, I think we've typed to each other before about this. I work with different organic soil amendments, and their effect on soil quality, sustainable agriculture, and soil biological communities. J. of Alternative Agriculture Volume 7 (1992) Issue #1 was devoted to soil quality, a little out of date, but includes important concepts. I have quite a few other references. Let me know what you need! Short answers are organic aggregates are increased in size and number with increasing organic amendments, microbial biomass is normally increased (tillage also has a major effect). Addition of organic amendments normally increases soil organic matter (soil type is important. In our sandy coastal plain mineral soils, very little OM is present in the first place: <1%). Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Student Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 11:52:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04536 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11896 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:50:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11891 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.187] (st-ppp13.hevanet.com [198.5.254.187]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA17520; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904051450.HAA17520@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:51:50 -0700 Subject: FW: This Library Has Deep Roots on the Farm From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Bargyla Rateaver Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA11892 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 314 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: This Library Has Deep Roots on the Farm Date: Mon, Apr 5, 1999, 6:38 AM STORY LEAD: This Library Has Deep Roots on the Farm ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA April 5, 1999 Brian Norris, (301) 504-6778, bnorris@nal.usda.gov ----------- Next week (April 11-17) is National Library Week, and one of the world's most special libraries has "Agricultural" as its middle name. The National Agricultural Library in Beltsville, Md., is the world's largest library on the subject. NAL is part of the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific arm, and the library's links to scientific research are as plain as the views from its windows. The towering, 14-story library building looks west toward the labs and research fields of the largest of ARS' 100-plus research locations--the 7,000-acre Beltsville Agricultural Research Center. When President Lincoln established USDA in 1862, he noted that its mission would include "to acquire and diffuse among the people of the United States useful information on subjects connected with agriculture." Accordingly, the first U.S. Commissioner of Agriculture, Isaac Newton, established an agricultural library in which "the most valuable works would gradually accumulate by exchange, gift, and purchase, forming a rich mine of knowledge." Since that time, NAL's knowledge media have shifted from paper and ink to computers and cyberspace. Its clientele, once mainly U.S. scientists and farmers, now is global. This "mine of knowledge" is no musty accumulation gathering dust on the bookshelves. NAL handles 220,000 requests a year from scientists, teachers, government officials, farmers, business leaders, students and others around the nation and the world. The NAL treasure trove extends over 50 miles of bookshelves, with 3.3 million books, reports, databases, artifacts, audiovisuals, periodicals and other items. Growing by upwards of 130,000 accessions each year, the library has materials in about 75 languages. The computer age has brought NAL new ways of doing business, including sending out most materials electronically. An extensive web site, offering access to library staff, products and services, currently receives 11 million "hits" a year. The web address is: http://www.nal.usda.gov ---------- Contact: Pamela Andr, director, ARS National Agricultural Library, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-5248, fax (301) 504-7042, pandre@nal.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 11:52:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04564 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08317 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:47:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08184 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:50:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: PBS series on Planet Earth airs April 6 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:50:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 315 Sanet: A reminder that the PBS Series: Journey to Planet Earth will air on Tuesday nights IN MOST LOCATIONS (check your local listings--it will be on Sunday afternoons in some places). The series starts on April 6 and runs for three weeks. The message below includes information about educational materials, too. I have seen the sustainable agriculture segment in its entirety (SARE funded part of it), and also attended a screening of segments of all three shows. This whole series looks to be of great interest. The SA program features sanet's own Steve Groff, Pennsylvania farmer! See the web site: http://www.pbs.org/teachersource/science/planetearth/ Andy Clark JOURNEY TO PLANET EARTH THREE-PART MINISERIES PREMIERES APRIL 6 ON PBS FREE EDUCATIONAL MATERIALS AVAILABLE The delicate relationship between people and the world they inhabit is explored in a new three-part documentary miniseries, JOURNEY TO PLANET EARTH, premiering Tuesday, April 6, 10:00-11:00 p.m. ET on PBS (check local listings). Narrated by Kelly McGillis, JOURNEY TO PLANET EARTH provides a perspective for viewers to understand the complexities underlying ecological issues. Each episode looks at a specific problem from the scientific, economic, political and historical viewpoints, as well as at efforts by different communities to address these problems. Computer-enhanced satellite images open the episodes, dramatically illustrating the impact people have made on the planet ecosystem. Rivers of Destiny (April 6) looks at the dangers (pollution, over fishing, loss of wetlands) threatening four of the world's major river systems the Mississippi, the Amazon, the Jordan and the Mekong. The Urban Explosion (April 13 at 10:00 p.m. ET) examines the problems confronting four of the world's mega-cities New York City, Mexico City, Istanbul and Shanghai. Providing citizens with clean drinking water, waste disposal, food and shelter are constant challenges. Land of Plenty, Land of Want (April 20 at 10:00 p.m. ET) visits diverse farming communities in Zimbabwe, France, the United States Iowa and Pennsylvania) and China to examine the worldwide problems of feeding a growing population. Free Educational Materials "Sustainable Agriculture It All Starts with Soil," developed in conjunction with National 4-H, combines video excerpts from the Land of Plenty, Land of Want program with hands-on activities. Designed to be used in 4-H, Boys and Girls Club, FFA or similar programs, this video and print package teaches middle-school-aged youngsters about different kinds of soil and how to determine the makeup of soil (is it clayey, loamy, silty, etc.). The video segments and print component are being made available to PBS stations nationwide. Both can be duplicated and the segments used in perpetuity. The print piece also can be used with the complete Land of Plenty, Land of Want program. A second educational package designed for middle school teachers is also available. It consists of a teacher's guide and video segments excerpted from each program. The teacher's guide is made up of three lessons based on concepts covered in the programs. The specially-selected video segments and teacher's guide are being made available to all PBS stations, too. The video segments and the teacher's guide may be duplicated and used in perpetuity. The teacher's guide can be used also with the full 60-minute programs, which carry the standard PBS one-year off-air record rights. Both the teacher's guide and the "Sustainable Agriculture It All Starts with Soil" brochure will be available to download from the Journey to Planet Earth Web site in late March. Visit the site (http://www.pbs.org/teachersource/planetearth) for a "sneak peek," beginning in mid-February. For more information on the series and free educational materials, or to order educational materials if they aren't available from your PBS station, contact: Michele Reap South Carolina Educational Television 803/737-3394 or e-mail: mreap@scetv.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 15:24:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09388 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA25055 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:29:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA25001 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.33] [199.175.106.33] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m10UE6l-000WTVC for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:28:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:28:39 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: meat irradiation Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 316 Beth, perhaps you are ready to buy the technology of food irradiation as safe but there is the other problem of "unsafe" meat processing plants that still bothers me. Why are we having this plague of infected processed meats? Instead of solving that problem we will use gamma radiation to make the meat safe to eat. Are we suffering from "side effects" of massive factories and nationwide distribution systems which we think gives us "benefits of scale". I for one don't like those benefits and deal only with local, small-scale operations, where I know the owner-operator, where I can see for myself how the place is run. As for ground beef, which has caused a lot of sickness and death, I never buy it. If I want ground meat for hamburgers or meatloaf or whatever, I use chuck steak and grind it myself using a very inexpensive hand grinder. For those of you who haven't tried it, this method produces a very superior product and usually at a lower price. For those who find this too much trouble, I guess they will have to eat irradiated meat. Don Maroc To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 15:39:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09764 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA01743 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:38:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA01636 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:41:35 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Whole Hog in the Washington Post Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:41:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 317 See the article in Sunday's Washington Post on the proposed third-largest hog farm in the world: http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-04/04/040l-040499-idx.ht ml The introduction is pasted here: Despite Stink, Hog Farm Proceeds on Tribal Land By William Claiborne Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, April 4, 1999; Page A03 What eventually will become the third-largest hog farm in the world is rising on tribal trust land near a remote Indian reservation in South Dakota in spite of strong opposition by the federal government, environmentalists, animal rights activists and a coalition of tribal members and other local residents. Work is underway on cavernous feeding barns for the $105 million facility, which is designed to house 859,000 hogs near the Rosebud Sioux Reservation 150 miles southeast of Rapid City. The work resumed last month after a federal judge accused the federal government's top Indian official of abusing his discretionary powers and acting in an "arbitrary and capricious" manner when he ordered work stopped on environmental grounds. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 16:13:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA10446 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA24319 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:19:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA24296 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id OAA20052; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:18:58 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xma015672; Mon, 5 Apr 99 14:15:27 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:15:26 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC082@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: food costs Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:15:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 318 Gary, > Look at the basics, flour, beans, rice, eggs, milk, meat > etc, and compare how long it takes the average worker to > earn enough income to buy these and you will have to agree. I think you are right. I have grown many kinds of vegetables in my own garden, and I work with corn in my job. I think food is amazingly inexpensive, ridiculously inexpensive, given all the effort, the expertise required, and everything that can go wrong. A person in the U.S. could eat for ten dollars a week if they had to. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 17:11:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12625 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA02905 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA02790 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AD8090@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:27 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 5 Apr 99 16:19:21 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 5 Apr 99 16:18:58 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:18:53 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: price of food In-reply-to: <199904042210.SAA21018@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1C685A64C55@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 319 Gary Elliot wrote: > One can spend $40.00 a week for food, or > $100/week, The choice is how much labour is included in what we buy. Well, it also makes a big difference if you're buying organic. We buy for two, the only "processed" foods we buy are bread, cereal, pasta and tomato sauce/paste, we buy very little meat, but because we buy the organic version of everything we can, we find it difficult to spend less than $80-$100/week. (But I agree that non organic food is dirt cheap -- and junk food seems the cheapest of all.) Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 17:14:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12661 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09634 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:33:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (root@always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09517 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from becky (SantaCruz186.got.net [209.66.100.186]) by always.got.net (8.8.8/8.8.7/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id NAA02111; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:33:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990405133330.0092145c@mail.got.net> X-Sender: research@mail.got.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:33:31 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: Database of Organic Research Plots Around the Country Cc: todd.hamner@miis.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 320 In 1996 OFRF conducted a search for dedicated organic research plots around the country. At that time, we turned up 10 such sites. Examples of the sites identified at that time include: * the Center for Enviromental Farming Systems at North Carolina State University; * the University of Nebraska Agricultural Research and Development Center * Rodale Farm Global Program's Experimental Farm in Kutztown, PA * and Cornell Universities' NYSAES Geneva Vegetable Crops Farm. With the intention of establishing a baseline of current dedicated research ground for OFRF's new Scientific Congress on Organic Agriculture Research (SCOAR) Project, we are now in the process of trying to bring this "database" up-to-date. out,outWhile OFRF is very interested in (and consistently works with) farmers conducting independent research on their own farms, this current search is aimed at identifying research plots within a variety of institutional settings. We are interested in institutionally managed research plots: * within the university system, * managed by government agencies (such as USDA-ARS and State Agricultural Experimental Stations) * sites operated by nonprofit organizations or institutes. Plots should be certified organic or could be. Information we are interested in for each site includes: out,out 1. Site name, type and organizational affiliation 2. Contact info: address, phone, email... 3. # of acres, organic certification status, years certified 4. Crops grown, research conducted, long term plans 5. funding sources and duration 6. Any additional comments Please email responses to:< and CC:< For additional information about OFRF's SCOAR Project point your browser to:< To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 17:58:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA13411 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA26372 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:11:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA26337 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:11:36 -0400 (EDT) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (travelers.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.13]) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA16059 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:11:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: dsc17@travelers.mail.cornell.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: info re: volume and prices of organic food sales Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 321 I am looking for information on aggregate annual volume of sales of organic food in the US (estmates are fine) and if possible, estimates of prices. Any ideas on where to look? thanks again to you all. I have found you folks to be incredibly helpful on several occasions David To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 18:26:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13799 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23861 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:40:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA23778 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904052140.RAA23778@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.102] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AD86AB0264; Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:39:18 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:39:25 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: price of food Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 322 On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:18:53 EST5EDT, Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >(But I agree that non organic food >is dirt cheap -- and junk food seems the cheapest of all.) Anita I'm not convinced that the "organic is expensive and conventional is cheap" line of reasoning holds completely. Consider an absolutely scrumptious organic navel orange at $1.00/lb (they're 79 cents locally). Three oranges to the pound --- easily 3.5 ounces of inside goodies for 33 cents. Tasty, nourishing, pure, and natural --- probably helps support an organic family farm in California. Compare that to an orange Popsicle -- 3.5 ounces of colored, flavored, water, sweetend with what is probably GMO-corn syrup. Is it food? Whom does it support? So which one is expensive, and why in light of that obvious answer do people persist in calling *organic* food elitist ?? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 5 23:08:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA21400 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA21099 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:18:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA21079 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:18:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from computer (ip53.ts12.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.86.53]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with ESMTP id WAA19046; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904060218.WAA19046@cyberus.ca> From: "Gord Hawkes" To: "Bluestem Associates" , Subject: Re: price of food Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:18:52 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 323 Absolutely fantastic response. Bravo Bluestem!!!!! ---------- > From: Bluestem Associates > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: price of food > Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 4:39 PM > > On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:18:53 EST5EDT, Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > >(But I agree that non organic food > >is dirt cheap -- and junk food seems the cheapest of all.) Anita > > I'm not convinced that the "organic is expensive and conventional is > cheap" line of reasoning holds completely. > > Consider an absolutely scrumptious organic navel orange at $1.00/lb > (they're 79 cents locally). Three oranges to the pound --- easily 3.5 > ounces of inside goodies for 33 cents. Tasty, nourishing, pure, and > natural --- probably helps support an organic family farm in > California. > > Compare that to an orange Popsicle -- 3.5 ounces of colored, flavored, > water, sweetend with what is probably GMO-corn syrup. Is it food? Whom > does it support? > > So which one is expensive, and why in light of that obvious answer do > people persist in calling *organic* food elitist ?? > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 6 01:42:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA23174 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 01:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA22594 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:55:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.real.on.ca (mail2.real.on.ca [209.167.186.129]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA22549 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from london.skyscape.net (pppD15.mco.net [209.167.186.35]) by mail2.real.on.ca (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26762; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:54:56 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from gelliott@london.skyscape.net) Message-ID: <37098492.C0D5B528@london.skyscape.net> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:50:42 -0400 From: Gary Elliott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: price of food References: <1C685A64C55@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 324 I am afraid that I must persist...Organic food is dirt cheap. Get closer to the source of the food. If it comes from farther than, say 200 mi from you, perhaps you should not be eating a lot of it. Organic oranges in Michigan or Ontario? Maybe apples make more sense. Seafood in Saskatoon? Eat beef, lamb, chicken, pork, raised locally. I am part of the problem, as an organic producer. I grow spelt, soybeans, etc. and it seems I am always negotiating with a buyer who wants my crop to ship to Holland or Japan. Part of the problem with high organic prices is that the organic food system tries to mimic the conventional system, with California canned tomatoes being available in New Hampshire in March. What I am saying may strike you all as too revolutionary, but it is time to rethink how we do most everything. Global trade in ideas, regional commerce in products. Maybe then we can attempt to establish the true cost of what we need. If I can afford the price of organic grapes from Chile in January, then we probably are not factoring in all the true costs of the grapes. Follow what the best restaurants do, cook locally produced, organic food in season. Supply chains are supposed to be broken, a lot. Then you get more efficient distribution, of whatever you need. Gary Elliott Sylvan Organic Farm Parkhill Ontario Anita Graf (Staff)" wrote: > Gary Elliot wrote: > > > One can spend $40.00 a week for food, or > > $100/week, The choice is how much labour is included in what we buy. > > Well, it also makes a big difference if you're buying organic. We > buy for two, the only "processed" foods we buy are bread, cereal, > pasta and tomato sauce/paste, we buy very little meat, but because > we buy the organic version of everything we can, we find it difficult > to spend less than $80-$100/week. (But I agree that non organic food > is dirt cheap -- and junk food seems the cheapest of all.) Anita > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 6 03:46:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA26059 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 03:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA05216 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:43:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA05181 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 02:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000112145 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 1999 01:39:52 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 06:40:08 GMT Subject: EPA has already made a deal with the biotech industry Message-ID: <291635166.1463017@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 325 The article below shows that the EPA has already made a deal with the biotech industry: 1. First note that these subcommittees did not call any environmental, consumer or organic groups to testify. It was simply a vehicle to get their pro-GE views into the record and set EPA up to weaken the Plant Pesticide Rule. 2. Rep Ewing says "We must be sure that regulatory excess does not suffocate biotech." As if. 3. EPA's Aidala said that EPA would be willing to adopt language proposed by industry scientists - "plant-expressed protectants" instead of "plant pesticides" for both the crops and their Rule. So much for the much-touted government principle of "transparency". This is clearly a way to hide from the public what EPA is doing. 4. EPA is going to put out a formal notice to change the name of the Rule. Perhaps we should come up with our own term and make it stick, like Terminator did. How about Frankenfood Rule, or Pesticidal Foods Rule. In any event we should comment en masse about this trick to euphemize and obscure the fact that "foods" like Bt corn are genetically engineered. 5. Rep Brown said that EPA has "misnamed the plant pesticides as a way to preserve EPA's jurisdiction." Aidala denies it. But it's true. The name reflects the legitimate authority EPA has under FIFRA to regulate the pesticides which are engineered into plants. 6. If anyone wants the reference for the "Coordinated Framework of Biotechnology" published under the Reagan administration, it is Federal Register Vol 50 No. 220 page 47174, Nov 14, 1985. It should be noted that the Coordinated Framework, which divvied up different GE products to different federal agencies, did not assign plants engineered to produce industrial chemicals like plastics to anyone. Hence, to this day they are not regulated. It didn't ensure that products which might produce both health and environmental effects would get review for both. Thus USDA reviews certain plants for weediness, but not for human health effects. 7. The paragraph in which EPA's Aidala grovels, beginning: "WE (emphasis mine) have more market penetration..."is a pathetic demonstration of how far environmental protection and public service have sunk. 8. Note that Dr. Kelman said members of CAST reached a "scientific"consensus that regulation should ignore how GE crops are made. It would appear that this consensus is based more on a concern for grant funding than it is on the accumulating data which strongly indicates that rDNA techniques introduce uncertainty into both the characteristics and behavior of GEOs. 9. EPA's Aidala stated that EPA's approach to regulation of biotech is "process neutral", but that is inaccurate. EPA has repeatedly stated that it considers biopesticides including Bt corn to be "safer" pesticides than conventional chemicals. These are placed on fast track for regulatory approval. --- March 25, 1999 Pesticide Toxic Chemical News House Ag subcommittees question EPA's authority to regulate biotech plants as pesticides by Kathleen Hart Members of congress reviewing the Environmental Protection Agency's proposed Plant Pesticide Regulation this week called into question the agency's authority to regulate as pesticides plants that have been genetically engineered to resist insect pests. During a March 24 hearing, Rep. Thomas Ewing (R-Ill), chairman of the House Agriculture subcommittee on Risk Management, Research and Specialty Crops, asked EPA to re-open the comment period on the five-year-old proposed rule and conduct a cost-benefit analysis of the regulatory burden to the agricultural biotechnology industry. "We must be sure that regulatory excess does not suffocate"the biotech industry, he said. James Aidala, EPA associate assistant administrator for Prevention, Pesticides and Toxic Substances, did not immediately agree to re-open the comment period, but said the agency would consider the need to do so. He said the agency would like to have the rule finished by the end of the year. In the past few months, the agency has been "making progress toward reaching a consensus"with industry groups over the kinds of plants and biopesticides that would be immediately exempt from regulation under the proposed rule. EPA's use of the phrase "plant pesticides" to describe plants genetically engineered to express traits that enhance resistance to pests has long rankled many scientists and members of the food industry. Aidala said EPA would be willing to adopt language proposed by industry scientists - "plant-expressed protectants" - instead of "plant pesticides" to describe both the rule and the biotech products covered under the rule. Industry representatives and scientists agreed to the new terminology at a March 16 meeting sponsored by the Council for Agricultural Science and Technology (CAST), Arthur Kelman, speaking on behalf of CAST, said at the hearing. Aidala said EPA would put out a notice to formally change the name of the rule to the plant-expressed protectants regulation. Ewing and other congressmen pressed Aidala to justify EPA's authority to regulate biotech plants. Aidala responded that the "plain language" of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act clearly give the agency jurisdiction over plants intended for use as pesticides. "FIFRA section 2 defines 'pesticide' to include any substance or mixture of substances indented for preventing, destroying, repelling or mitigating and pest," Aidala said. Rep. George Brown (D-Calif.), who described himself as generally friendly toward EPA policies, also raised questions about the fundamental basis for the agency's regulation of plants and plant substances as "pesticides" under the FIFRA. "I'm concerned that what we have here is a semantic problem," said Brown. "Scientific communities seem to think you've misnamed these plant protectants to preserve your jurisdiction." Ewing argued that by regulating biotech plants that resist pests in the same way as chemical pesticides are regulated "we could be creating a new Delaney Clause here, where you've taken that wording out of context." Aidala responded that the agency had "no intention of doing that." But he acknowledged the definition of pesticides, passed in 1947, is broad. Ewing at one point suggested that it would have been better for Congress to have created a new law to deal with regulation of biotechnology products, rather than "expanding" the definition of pesticides as EPA has. Aidala noted that many countries, including those in the European Union, that have approached biotechnology by writing entirely new laws, have run into difficulties. In fact, Congress made a conscious decision in the 1980s not to regulate the products of agricultural biotechnology, because the current laws seemed broad enough to cover them, Brown noted. In 1986 the Reagan administration published the "Coordinated Framework of Biotechnology," that allowed federal agencies to promulgate new regulations under existing laws, as necessary to handle novel products. The framework anticipated that pesticides made through techniques of biotechnology would be regulated by EPA, plant pests would be regulated by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, and foods derived from novel plant varieties by the Food and Drug Administration. The largest commercial biotech plants regulated as pesticides by EPA to date include crops genetically engineered to express the toxin Bacillus thuringiensis - Bt-corn, Bt-cotton, Bt-potatoes and others. "We have more market penetration and are getting ahead of the game compared to a lot of other countries," Aidala said. "Those plant pesticides that have been registered have been enthusiastically embraced by growers, and have been a boon for the biotechnology industry. Since their production in 1995, the adoption of these products has increased significantly each year. Sales were estimated to reach the $9 million mark for 1998 and are predicted to reach $20 million in 1999." The 15-member EU has been slow to approve genetically engineered plants, and some member nations have separately banned genetically modified (GM) crops which had gained EU approval. Responding to consumer objections to GM crops, several major grocery store chains in the United Kingdom and France have pledged to stock non-GM foods and have sought suppliers of conventional corn and soybeans for their products. Despite the strong opposition to genetically engineered crops in Europe - and problems U.S. growers face finding markets for their biotech corn and soybeans, none of the House Ag members at the hearing questioned the exuberance of the biotech industry over the future of the technology for American agriculture. Rep Bob Goodlatte (R-VA.), chairman of the Agriculture subcommittee on Department Operations, Oversight, Nutrition and Forestry, suggested that EPA's approach to regulation will slow down the development of new pest-resistant crops. "In Washington, no good deed goes unpunished," he said. "We're creating a $50 solution to what might be a $5 problem." Aidala said EPA believes biotechnology is a "win-win" technology that "holds tremendous promise. "However, he said the broad acceptance of GM food in the United States - in contrast to the widespread skepticism about GM food in the EU - is based on consumer confidence in the regulatory agencies in this country. Gene transfers from animals, other plants need review. To maintain public trust - and protect public health and the environment - EPA needs to continue to review plants genetically engineered for novel pest-resistance traits, particularly when those traits result in the introduction of genes from animals, bacteria and other plants, Aidala told the subcommittees. Genes transferred from one kind of potato to another, for instance, would require no review under the proposed rule. But genes transferred from a potato plant to spinach, would trigger a review, because of potential health risks. Potato leaves contain a compound which causes birth defects in people, he explained. No one eats potato leaves, so it is not a health problem. But if that trait were to be transferred to spinach, the leaves of which people do eat, a potential health problem could arise. Kelman said members of CAST reached a scientific consensus that the guiding principle in regulation has to be the outcome, not in the way in which the breeding was done. Pest-resistant plants produced by genetic engineering "are, in general, indistinguishable in behavior and appearance from plants bred by conventional methods, "he said. "However, the latter types of plants are exempted from the EPA regulations although they may be highly resistant and may in fact have several pesticidal compounds that can be identified." Aidala repeatedly stated that EPA's approach to regulation is "process neutral". Under EPA's 1994 proposed rule, exemptions from agency review are based only on the characteristics of the plant and "the probability of exposure to unknown toxicological profiles, "he said. Kelman said CAST members believe a review by EPA is warranted when genetic modifications "involve substances with known or suspected potential pesticidal effects "or substances "otherwise of a character to be considered pesticides, such that, when extracted from a producer organism and tested in vitro or in the environment in some purified or semipurified form, "they act as pesticides. Examples include: pyrethrum, neem, rotenone, nicotine, scorpion toxin, spider venom, and crystalline Bt endotoxin." In addition to Aidala and Kelman, the two House Agriculture subcommittees heard testimony from Joseph Panetta, vice president, Mycogen Corp., speaking on behalf of the American Crop Protection Association and the Biotechnology Industry Organization, and James Cook, professor of plant pathology at Washington State University, Pullman, on behalf of the Institute for Food Technology. The subcommittees did not call any representative of environmental, consumer or organic grower groups to testify. Kathleen Hart Subject: more on that Congressional hearing Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:17:44 -0700 -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Tue Apr 6 13:26:06 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07507 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14821; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14521 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from digisys.net (modem215.digisys.net [205.218.31.88]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29573; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <370A4221.733E690E@digisys.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:19:29 -0600 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: letters@TheNation.com, "bdnow@envirolink.org" CC: "Anne Mendenhall (E-mail)" , "ColdGH@onelist.com" , CSA-L , "herb@MyList.net" , "HERBWORLD@aol.com" , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: [Fwd: OFF: AD HOC CENSORSHIP re: Food History Documentary] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------12243E82DBF685C8E8014B10" Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 326 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------12243E82DBF685C8E8014B10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has Alec Baldwin contacted Oprah Winfrey to ascertain (1) how she prevailed in that lawsuit, (2) what unexpected situations/questions was she faced with, (3) what knowledge did she acquire from that particular situation as it relates to the health of our food industry, and, (4) would she be willing to get involved in this issue with Mr. Baldwin? Has Alec Baldwin contacted people in the know within the organic industry as a means of binding together for more clout? Does he have a web presence that the general public can access and sign a petition against the news media controlling what Mr. Baldwin is trying to get aired? Respectfully submitted, Pat Hironimus --------------12243E82DBF685C8E8014B10 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01700 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02642; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02491 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.163.144] (pm3shep3-163-144.intrepid.net [209.190.163.144]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20199; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:31:19 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:22:02 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: AD HOC CENSORSHIP re: Food History Documentary Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thought folks might find this interesting...........................Marla >Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:43:04 -0900 (PDT) >From: warren belasco >Subject: Food History Documentary >Sender: owner-dsfs@lists.umbc.edu >X-Sender: belasco@umbc2.umbc.edu >To: dsfs@lists.umbc.edu >Reply-to: dsfs@lists.umbc.edu > > > >Hollywood actor/activist Alec Baldwin needs our help. In the April >5 issue of The Nation (devoted to politics in Hollywood), Baldwin >is asked whether ongoing corporate takeovers and mergers make it >harder to make politically controversial films. His answer (p.20): > > > >You see the consequences of the vertical integration of the >entertainment companies. I have been going to every major >outlet--the Discovery Channel, A&E, the History Channel, every PBS >outlet in the major markets, NET, KCET, KQED in San Francisco, >WGBH in Boston--looking for financing to help me produce a >documentary titled "The History of Food," about the political and >economic determinants of what we eat in this country. And every >single person I talk to who has an IQ over 100 is overwhelmingly >intrigued by the idea of this show. But all these outlets, they're >like, "Oh, God! We can't do that, because of that Oprah Winfrey >beef lawsuit!" I mean, this is what I'm getting from The History >Channel. They just say, "We'll call you." And I never hear from them. > >***** > >Any suggestions for Mr. Baldwin? I'm sure you can write him c/o of >The Nation (letters@TheNation.com). Please cc this list, too. > >Warren > > > ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Marla Rhodes Northeast Food System Partnership Information and Outreach Coordinator 617-627-5481 mrhodes1@emerald.tufts.edu Interested in sharing ideas and information about community food security and sustainable food systems in the Northeast? Sign up to the email group nefood-l. Send the message SUBSCRIBE NEFOOD-L YOUR NAME to the following address: listproc@listproc.tufts.edu Leave the subject line blank. --------------12243E82DBF685C8E8014B10-- From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Tue Apr 6 13:28:13 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA07543 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26242 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA29442; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:18:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from digisys.net (digisys.net [205.138.110.204]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29293 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:16:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from digisys.net (modem215.digisys.net [205.218.31.88]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29573; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <370A4221.733E690E@digisys.net> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:19:29 -0600 From: "P. Hironimus" Organization: Simply Health Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: letters@TheNation.com, "bdnow@envirolink.org" CC: "Anne Mendenhall (E-mail)" , "ColdGH@onelist.com" , CSA-L , "herb@MyList.net" , "HERBWORLD@aol.com" , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: [Fwd: OFF: AD HOC CENSORSHIP re: Food History Documentary] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------12243E82DBF685C8E8014B10" Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 327 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------12243E82DBF685C8E8014B10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has Alec Baldwin contacted Oprah Winfrey to ascertain (1) how she prevailed in that lawsuit, (2) what unexpected situations/questions was she faced with, (3) what knowledge did she acquire from that particular situation as it relates to the health of our food industry, and, (4) would she be willing to get involved in this issue with Mr. Baldwin? Has Alec Baldwin contacted people in the know within the organic industry as a means of binding together for more clout? Does he have a web presence that the general public can access and sign a petition against the news media controlling what Mr. Baldwin is trying to get aired? Respectfully submitted, Pat Hironimus --------------12243E82DBF685C8E8014B10 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by digisys.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01700 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02642; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02491 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.163.144] (pm3shep3-163-144.intrepid.net [209.190.163.144]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20199; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:31:19 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:22:02 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: OFF: AD HOC CENSORSHIP re: Food History Documentary Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thought folks might find this interesting...........................Marla >Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:43:04 -0900 (PDT) >From: warren belasco >Subject: Food History Documentary >Sender: owner-dsfs@lists.umbc.edu >X-Sender: belasco@umbc2.umbc.edu >To: dsfs@lists.umbc.edu >Reply-to: dsfs@lists.umbc.edu > > > >Hollywood actor/activist Alec Baldwin needs our help. In the April >5 issue of The Nation (devoted to politics in Hollywood), Baldwin >is asked whether ongoing corporate takeovers and mergers make it >harder to make politically controversial films. His answer (p.20): > > > >You see the consequences of the vertical integration of the >entertainment companies. I have been going to every major >outlet--the Discovery Channel, A&E, the History Channel, every PBS >outlet in the major markets, NET, KCET, KQED in San Francisco, >WGBH in Boston--looking for financing to help me produce a >documentary titled "The History of Food," about the political and >economic determinants of what we eat in this country. And every >single person I talk to who has an IQ over 100 is overwhelmingly >intrigued by the idea of this show. But all these outlets, they're >like, "Oh, God! We can't do that, because of that Oprah Winfrey >beef lawsuit!" I mean, this is what I'm getting from The History >Channel. They just say, "We'll call you." And I never hear from them. > >***** > >Any suggestions for Mr. Baldwin? I'm sure you can write him c/o of >The Nation (letters@TheNation.com). Please cc this list, too. > >Warren > > > ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Marla Rhodes Northeast Food System Partnership Information and Outreach Coordinator 617-627-5481 mrhodes1@emerald.tufts.edu Interested in sharing ideas and information about community food security and sustainable food systems in the Northeast? Sign up to the email group nefood-l. Send the message SUBSCRIBE NEFOOD-L YOUR NAME to the following address: listproc@listproc.tufts.edu Leave the subject line blank. --------------12243E82DBF685C8E8014B10-- From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 6 16:02:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11664 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA15445 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:16:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15243 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:19:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: PLEASE DISTRIBUTE: National Town Meeting Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:19:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 328 Sanet colleagues: We're into the final push towards the National Town Meeting in Detroit. Please distribute this notice to all interested parties. Note that groups of 5 can register at a reduced fee until April 8 (new deadline). This would save $75 per person (off the $250 single fee). Let's be sure that sustainable agriculture has broad representation at this National Town Meeting for Sustainable Development. http://www.sustainableamerica.org Once registered, stop by the USDA display area to visit the SAN exhibit! My apologies for cross-postings,and please continue to distribute widely to your networks. Andy Clark, Coordinator Sustainable Agriculture Network http://www.sare.org National Meeting on Sustainability You're invited to attend the National Town Meeting for a Sustainable America on May 2-5 in Detroit, Michigan. The purpose of the meeting is simple: assist communities, businesses, and individuals find sustainable ways to achieve economic, environmental and social goals. The conference will feature over 130 learning sessions to encourage a 'roll up your sleeves' approach to solving problems. Topics run from engaging kids in community problem solving, to disaster recovery as an opportunity to promote sustainable communities, to a session on natural capitalism: the next industrial revolution. In addition, the meeting will cover proven "smart growth" initiatives; corporate innovations in manufacturing; and outstanding real-life examples from across the country -- all designed to foster sustainability and enhance the livability of our communities. The meeting is sponsored by the President's Council on Sustainable Development and the Global Environment Technology Foundation. For more information, please visit the National Town Meeting website at [http://www.sustainableamerica.org] or call toll-free at: 1-888-333-6878. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 6 18:25:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14869 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA22530 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rfd1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.175.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22499 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lessing.oit.umass.edu by rfd1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29083) with ESMTP id <0F9S00F81CLTL1@rfd1.oit.umass.edu> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trf@localhost) by lessing.oit.umass.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA25567; Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:51:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Fetter Subject: Re: info re: volume and prices of organic food sales In-reply-to: X-Sender: trf@lessing.oit.umass.edu To: dsc17@cornell.edu Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: lessing.oit.umass.edu: trf owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 329 > I am looking for information on aggregate annual volume of sales > of organic food in the US (estmates are fine) and if possible, estimates > of prices. Any ideas on where to look? For aggregate VOS: Any natural-focused trade pub or, increasingly, any trade pub. Try the Natural Foods Merchandiser, which you can read online at www.nfm-online.com. Prices: Try CHOICES, Second Quarter 1998; "Price Premiums for Organic Crops," by Thomas L. Dobbs (pp. 39-41). Focus is on commodity crops. Also Lewrene Glaser, Barry Krissoff, et.al. "Demand for Frozen Vegetables: A Comparison of Organic and Conventional Products." This is put out by ERS, I believe in the November 1998 Vegetables and Specialties Situation and Outlook Report (VGS-276). If nowhere else you can probably find the report on their website, www.econ.ag.gov; or contact Lewrene Glaser (lkglaser@econ.ag.gov) or Barry Krissoff (barryk@econ.ag.gov). Article tracks price premia for frozen veggies. The Food Institute Report (3/22/99) reports that Horizon Organic Dairy (with 2/3 of the organic milk market) is able to charge 50% price premium over conventional milk. The Wall Street Journal (3/9/99) may have similar numbers. You might also try browsing through websites of the Wallace Institute for Alternative Ag (www.hawiaa.org) and the Organic Farming Research Foundation (www.ofrf.org) for price info. Good luck. Rob ***************** T. Robert Fetter Research Assistant Dept. of Resource Economics Draper Hall University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 phone 413-545-5716 fax 413-545-5853 trf@student.umass.edu Check out the Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog at http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 6 22:10:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA18448 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21265 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:23:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21199 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool019-max12.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.15.19]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 2NZL3RP5; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:29:54 -0400 Message-ID: <370AB2F7.70A97F43@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:20:56 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, trf@student.umass.edu Subject: organic food prices References: <199904062210.SAA16251@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 330 definitely call the OFRF at and check out their website http://www.ofrf.org They just released their most recent survey of organic producers, which includes organic commodity prices, the summary is on the web, the whole thing is only $10 phil gillman southland farmers market association pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org ps- are you doing a study- if so we'd love to see the results To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 6 23:37:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA19582 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA24274 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:53:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA24196 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.171] (term6-32.vta.west.net [205.254.241.224]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D57BC249DE for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:53:26 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: NZ: DO WE NEED A NEW WAY OF FARMING? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 331 DO WE NEED A NEW WAY OF FARMING? The Press - New Zealand 20 March, 1999 Internet: http://www.press.co.nz:80/11/99032036.htm Perhaps we should regard possible climate change as being, in the trite phrase, not a problem but an opportunity to create a new agriculture. Arguments as to whether the drought is at an end aside, the dry spell of recent months is, arguably, no worse, in terms of missing rainfall, than many others we have experienced. Farmers find it more dreadful for several reasons. They are no longer prosperous, and have no financial reserves to tide them over. Whereas once they stocked more lightly and managed more in expectation of drought, now poverty forces many to farm always at the limit. Farms rely much more on abundant water. Canterbury even supports dairy herds, a thirsty extravagance in many places. It is possible, though, that this drought is evidence of a long-term change in climate associated with global warming. We must face the possibility that drier summers may be normal in future. If that were so, we would have to rethink our agriculture from the ground up. Doubtless in some areas we could compensate for decreased rainfall with irrigation. But as rivers and aquifers shrink, irrigation water may be harder to find. Irrigation may involve significant financial outlay. Our braided rivers are precious for their own highly-specialised wildlife, and anglers, recreationists, and conservationists will guard them jealously. Once farms depend on irrigation for their very existence, they are highly vulnerable should that water later become limited for any reason. And, for practical reasons, irrigation simply is not possible everywhere. The New Zealand tradition of farming, at which we excel, is of sheep, cattle, and cropping. The only plants we grow are grains, clover, ryegrass, and pine-trees. Orcharding and market gardening occur only in comparatively few flat, fertile, well-watered areas. Our competitive edge has, famously, always been that we can grow grass better than anyone else. Drought may destroy that edge. What then is to be done? We could try just continuing with what we know how to do. But if drought renders large areas useless for half the year, that would mean a crippling loss of overseas exchange. It would mean further rural depopulation (and debt) as farms are forced to grow much larger to remain economically viable. It would mean committing ourselves further to often-unsustainable farming practices, and, very possibly, to ultimately unprofitable products. More pine plantations would mean great fire risks. Perplexingly, in an increasingly over-populated world, it has become no easier to sell what we produce. Heresy though it may be to say it, it seems that many of our traditional products are not foods and fibres which the world desperately wants or can obtain nowhere else or can afford to pay us enough for. Free-trade arrangements will not help us. Many countries either do not want them at all, or want them only in order to make other countries open their borders, not to do the same in return. Perhaps, then, we should regard possible climate change as being, in the trite phrase, not a problem but an opportunity -- to create a new agriculture appropriate not only to our soils and new climate, but also to potential markets, and, more importantly, to the sort of coherent, sustainable society we would like on the land. For many years rural populations have been declining, and rural living becoming more difficult, as farms grow larger in efforts to make ends meet, and as much land has disappeared under pine plantations. Few farmers can afford to employ labour. Depopulation becomes a vicious circle, with resulting cuts in services leading to further population loss. So what are the solutions? Most difficult, perhaps, will be to learn what useful plants and trees will flourish in our new climates. Perhaps the currently fashionably Mediterranean staples will be part of the answer, perhaps not. Woodlands of trees of mixed age and species, native or European, for high quality end-uses, seem promising. Research done over many years by public-spirited tree-crops enthusiasts and others will assist greatly, but inevitably much trial and error will occur. We need to encourage closer rural settlement and smaller landholdings. Small intensively managed holdings are capable of much greater productivity than large ones. They also offer much more opportunity for employment, and delicate and thoughtful care of the land. As a small country on the world's edge, we should aim to grow high- quality and therefore high-value produce, probably often "organic", which will attract premium prices in overseas markets. To make a living from agriculture, after all, we must either aim at wealthy niche markets or mass-produce products in great demand. The refusal of agricultural universities to do more to promote organic agriculture is mystifying, and the determination of some farming leaders and politicians to destroy the last shred of our reputation as a clean, green sanctuary is insane. We need a government which, unlike any government of recent years, is genuinely interested in what is still the chief source of our prosperity. This does not mean propping up unsustainable agriculture. Governments should encourage the ending of unsustainable farming, including assisting permanently drought-stricken farmers to leave with dignity. They should encourage new farming experiments, ventures, and lifestyles. We should make the country a pleasant and healthy place for those who want to live there and are prepared to work hard and live simply but fruitfully. We should recognise the hard fact that some land at present farmed simply should not be. We should always remember that, although farms cannot run at a loss, yet farming, the foundation of all civilised life, is not just a business like any other, and can succeed only if it is not understood primarily in economic terms. David Round is a smallholder on Banks Peninsula, where he grows a variety of tree-crops and breeds highland cattle. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 6 23:59:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA19860 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA24414 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:54:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA24332 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.171] (term6-32.vta.west.net [205.254.241.224]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4CC76249CF for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:53:36 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Neurological Symptoms Linked To Injuries In Farmers Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 332 Age, Neurological Symptoms Linked To Injuries In Farmers 1 FEBRUARY 1999 Contact: Mac Crawford Crawford.9@osu.edu 614-293-3919 Ohio State University COLUMBUS, Ohio -- New research suggests that certain factors -- such as age and neurological symptoms -- play significant role in the risk of injuries to farmers. Researchers from Ohio State University found a higher risk of injury among farmers younger than 30 and those who reported symptoms associated with neurotoxicity, such as difficulty concentrating. Although this study didn't specifically address this issue, exposure to certain pesticides could be responsible for neurologic symptoms in some farmers. "Frequent exposure to many of the chemicals used on farms may affect hand-eye coordination, judgment or other forms of neuromotor control that, in turn, may influence injury risk," said Mac Crawford, co-author of the study and research associate in the School of Public Health at Ohio State. The study appears in a recent issue of the American Journal of Industrial Medicine. Crawford and his colleagues studied 1,565 white males who worked on Ohio cash- grain farms. Farmers were asked questions about farm operation, personal habits, health and if they or anyone else living or working on the farm had had an injury during the past year that required medical attention or required them to cut down on normal activities for more than half a day. The results showed that 90 subjects reported on-the-job injuries. The remaining 1,475 subjects were used as controls. Findings showed that 32 percent of the injuries were associated with farm equipment while 29 percent were the result of overexertion or straining. Thirty- seven percent of the farmers reported their injuries were sprains and strains, while 17 percent reported open wound injuries. The risk of injury seemed to be strongly tied to age, with the greatest risk among farmers younger than 30. Other studies have suggested that the highest risk of nonfatal injury happens among younger farmers. "Younger farmers may work longer hours than older farmers, exposing them to a higher risk of injury," said Jay Wilkins, study co-author and associate professor of public health at Ohio State. "Also, younger farmers may have less experience than their older counterparts, which might increase risk of injury." The researchers also found a potential correlation between symptoms of neurotoxicity -- or chemical exposure -- and injury risk. Part of the questionnaire dealt with neurological symptoms, such as difficulty concentrating, confusion or disorientation. Farmers who scored highest on a measure of neurological symptoms were nearly three times more likely to have been injured than farmers who scored lowest on the measure. "We can't say for sure based on this study that a causal relationship exists between pesticides and injury," Crawford said. "But there is evidence that people who are functioning more poorly neurologically are at greater risk for injury." While it's difficult to generalize the results of this study to all American farmers because it was limited to white male cash-grain farmers in Ohio, Crawford said many of their counterparts in dairy, beef, produce and other farming operations face the same or similar risks. Other study co-authors included Lynn Mitchell, consulting research statistician; Melvin Moeschberger, professor; and Lisa Jones, senior statistician, all of the School of Public Health at Ohio State; and Thomas Bean, professor of food, agricultural and biological engineering at Ohio State. This study was sponsored by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. ### Written by Holly Wagner, 614-292-8310; wagner.235@osu.edu *Peace and Light* The Health and Environment Round-Table Educate the general public about potential environmental threats to physical, emotional, and psychological health and well-being. Develop management strategies to reduce risks and stay healthy in an increasingly toxic world. A round-table forum for the public, medical, scientific, and legal communities, industry and media to reach out and work together toward making our world safer. Bring your questions, opinions, concerns, information, articles, and skepticism to the HealthE Round-Table. Please send personal mail privately. SNIP! Limit excessive requoting of posts, do not quote this banner. Courtesy, tolerance, and respect at all times. Commands in the BODY of email to: listserv@home.ease.lsoft.com as follows: Want DIGEST version of list? Send: set HealthE digest Read ARCHIVES not email? Send: set HealthE nomail Keyword searchable archives at: http://206.241.12.9/archives/healthe.html Automated list assistance send HELP in the body of email to: HealthE-request@home.ease.lsoft.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 01:00:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA20584 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 01:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA16054 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:08:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA16023 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.171] (term6-48.vta.west.net [205.254.241.240]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2EEEA24A35 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:07:18 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Chemically active disposable farm worker clothing 'breaks down' pesticides on contact Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 333 Heaven help us! Who thinks of these things?! Am I just jaded, or is this as much a stretch for others as I find it? I'll be interested to hear how farm workers themselves feel about it. Beth von Gunten --------------------------------------------- NY Times, "Observatory," March 30, 1999 Rugged Jeans Disposable synthetic clothing designed to protect the skin from hazardous chemicals is no one's idea of casual wear. The same qualities that keep harmful compounds away from the body can keep heat and moisture in, making such garments uncomfortable at best. Now, researchers at the University of California at Davis have developed a process that could make protective clothing as comfortable as an old pair of blue jeans. In fact, with their process, protective clothing might even be an old pair of blue jeans. The research, reported at a meeting last week of the American Chemical Society, is intended to protect farm workers from the pesticides they encounter in the field. Rather than trying to block the chemicals, the goal is to destroy them, by incorporating into the surface of ordinary cotton-polyester fabric a compound that breaks down the harmful chemicals on contact. By wearing clothes made from the treated fabric, a farm worker would become a walking detoxification plant, rendering a pesticide harmless before it reached the skin. The compound used, called a hydantoin, needs to be activated by the addition of a chlorine atom. And that leads to another advantage of the process: simply by washing the clothes in bleach, their pesticide -destroying capabilities are renewed. The researchers found that the fabric destroyed up to 99 percent of some kinds of pesticides. They caution, however, that the treatment has not been tested with organophosphates like malathion, which account for a large portion of total pesticides in use. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 08:41:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA24856 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA01109 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:53:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA01105 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:53:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id GAA17043; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:53:21 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xma016587; Wed, 7 Apr 99 06:52:26 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:52:26 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC090@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'colibri@west.net'" , "'wagner.235@osu.edu'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Neurological Symptoms Linked To Injuries In Farmers Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 06:52:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 334 Holly, As a former OSU alumnus and an agricultural scientist I felt compelled to reply. > The risk of injury seemed to be strongly tied to age, with > the greatest risk among farmers younger than 30. > there is evidence that people who are functioning more poorly > neurologically are at greater risk for injury. So, young, clumsy people are likely to have accidents. What a revelation! > Although this study didn't specifically address this > issue, exposure to certain pesticides could be > responsible for neurologic symptoms in some farmers. Presenting this silly research as evidence implicating pesticides strikes me as wacky. Was this your idea? Don't you folks at OSU have something better to do? Dale Wilson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 11:09:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28383 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA26989 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:11:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26929 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa- (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06120 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990407101408.007b29d0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:14:08 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: price of food In-Reply-To: <199904062210.SAA16251@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 335 I am one of those people who is willing to spend more to support things I believe in, but what we have not yet addressed in this discussion is the fact that once organic food leaves the farm, the farmer has little control over the retail price. I am tired of being gouged by natural food stores and coops selling wilted, aphid covered organic kale for $1.99 a pound! I grow a lot of my own vegetables organically so I am not afraid of a few bugs, but if I am turned off by the produce imagine how a more squeamish consumer would feel. So the food goes to waste, the store loses money and the prices stay high. Another problem with the price of food was told to me by a local organic farmer. He sells his organic strawberries to two coops. Strawberries obviously have a limited shelf life. In one coop, they mark them down as they start to look a little old. This store sells a lot of his berries, because people buy them both when they are fresh and pay the premium price and bargain hunters grab them when they are marked down. The other store keeps the price the same no matter how old and spotty they get. And they will not put out fresh berries until the old ones sell. So he does not sell more than two flats a season at their store. And people get the impression that his organic berries are brown and squishy and cost too much! So we also need to counter the impression that organic food looks worse than conventional food, especially when retailers have a hand in it. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 11:14:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28582 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02092 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:18:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (root@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01987 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pppsals (s30.max1.sb.rain.org [198.68.144.237]) by coyote.rain.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA09386; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <021301be8100$f1de1880$ed9044c6@pppsals> From: "Sal" To: "Wilson, Dale" , , Cc: References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC090@vela.phibred.com> Subject: Re: Neurological Symptoms Linked To Injuries In Farmers Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 07:14:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 336 check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Wilson, Dale To: ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 4:52 AM Subject: RE: Neurological Symptoms Linked To Injuries In Farmers > Holly, > > As a former OSU alumnus and an agricultural scientist I felt compelled to > reply. > > > The risk of injury seemed to be strongly tied to age, with > > the greatest risk among farmers younger than 30. > > > there is evidence that people who are functioning more poorly > > neurologically are at greater risk for injury. > > So, young, clumsy people are likely to have accidents. What a revelation! here is the revelation: Frequent exposure to many of the chemicals used on farms may affect hand-eye coordination, judgment or other forms of neuromotor control that, in turn, may influence injury risk, Nice to know I don't have to worry about that because I don't use chemicals that may cause neurologic symptoms . > > Although this study didn't specifically address this > > issue, exposure to certain pesticides could be > > responsible for neurologic symptoms in some farmers. > > Presenting this silly research as evidence implicating pesticides strikes me > as wacky. Was this your idea? Don't you folks at OSU have something better > to do? > > Dale Wilson > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 12:46:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00391 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA29945 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:49:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29930 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:53:05 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: farmer/horticultural consultant: Amazing Maize Maze Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:52:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 337 -----Original Message----- From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov [mailto:owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov] Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 7:55 AM Looking for a farmer/horticultural consultant Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Please send inquiries to Don@AmericanMaze.com or call 212-769-3920 New York City/Hudson Valley area The American Maze Company, inventor of the Amazing Maize Maze and creators of a national craze of agri-tainment is looking for a farmer/horticultural Consultant. Work is part-time to consult and assist in creating Regional Entertainment Sites on American Farms. AMC is expanding into a national program of maze sites and is developing additional entertainment events which will incorporate unique farming needs as we develop landscape artworks, 'living' theatrical environments, and good 'ol beautiful places. We are currently developing a new site in Rockland County, NY in an effort to diversify an orchard's revenue. Additionally an educational program is being refined to implement in all 9 sites nationally. Great fun for a retired horticulturist or a new grad from Cornell or similar institution. Feel free to visit our website at AmericanMaze.com. Respond to Don@AmericanMaze.com or call Don at 212-769-3920. New York City American Maze Company is seeking a qualified individual to market regional and national sponsorships for the Amazing Maize Maze. The maze program is a national program presented in New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, North Carolina, South Carolina, Iowa and California with a plan to increase with 3 additional sites a year. This year 250,000 guests will journey through our cornfields .... and be delighted with their quest. Please review our website at AmericanMaze.com and respond to Don@AmercianMaze.com or call 212-769-3920. thank you.. Third. this is a bit strange but so far our crazy thoughts have flourished. We are in further discussions with NBC TODAY about planting our 'portable' (and potted) cornfield outside their windows in Manhattan this summer. This should be a great visual a stunning opportunity to get the agricultural message out. (In case it is note clear...we plan to plant thousands of corn stalks in 5 gallon pots, and carry them into NYC and arrange them into a maze on East 50th Street.!!!) This will be so visual that a story about the maze is only a small piece. We expect that Old Farmers Almanac, one of our sponsors will pitch a piece to TODAY. Don Frantz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 12:51:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00476 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26824 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:44:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26746 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:48:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Guide to Minimize Microbial Food Safety Hazards for Fresh Fr uits and Vegetable Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:48:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 338 This comprehensive document includes guidelines for manure management: Guide to Minimize Microbial Food Safety Hazards for Fresh Fruits and Vegetable http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/prodguid.html Here's the title page and table of contents: Food and Drug Administration U. S. Department of Agriculture Centers for Disease Control and Prevention October 26, 1998 Guidance for Industry Guide to Minimize Microbial Food Safety Hazards for Fresh Fruits and Vegetables Additional copies are available from: Food Safety Initiative Staff, HFS-32 U.S. Food and Drug Administration Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition 200 C Street S.W. Washington, DC 20204 (Tel) 202-260-8920 (Internet) http://www.fda.gov U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Food and Drug Administration Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition (CFSAN) October 26, 1998 GUIDANCE FOR INDUSTRY GUIDE TO MINIMIZE MICROBIAL FOOD SAFETY HAZARDS FOR FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES Table of Contents Preface Introduction Use of This Guide Basic Principles I. Definitions II. Water A. Microbial Hazard B. Control of Potential Hazards 1.0 Agricultural Water 1.1 General considerations 1.2 Microbial testing of agricultural water 2.0 Processing Water 2.1 General Considerations 2.2 Antimicrobial Chemicals 2.3 Wash Water 2.4 Cooling Operations III. Manure And Municipal Biosolids A. Microbial Hazard B. Control of Potential Hazards 1.0 Municipal Biosolids 2.0 Good Agricultural Practices for Manure Management 2.1 Treatments to Reduce Pathogen Levels 2.1.1 Passive treatments. 2.1.2 Active treatments. 2.2 Handling and Application 2.2.1 Untreated Manure 2.2.2 Treated Manure 3.0 Animal Feces IV. Worker Health and Hygiene A. Microbial Hazards B. Control of Potential Hazards 1.0 Personal Health and Hygiene 2.0 Training 3.0 Customer-Pick Operations and Road-Side Produce Stands V. Sanitary Facilities A. Microbial Hazards B. Control of Potential Hazards 1.0 Toilet Facilities and Handwashing Stations 2.0 Sewage Disposal VI. Field Sanitation A. Microbial Hazards B. Control of Potential Hazards 1.0 General Harvest Considerations 2.0 Equipment Maintenance VII. Packing Facility Sanitation A. Microbial Hazard B. Control of Potential Hazards 1.0 General Packing Considerations 2.0 General Considerations for Facility Maintenance 3.0 Pest Control VIII. Transportation A. Microbial Hazard B. Control of Potential Hazards 1.0 General Considerations 2.0 General Transport Considerations IX. Traceback X. Conclusion References Appendix _____________________________ Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 12:59:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00654 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA10504 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:06:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA10416 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000112784 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 11:02:41 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), mail@icsenglish.com Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:03:04 GMT Subject: GLYPHOSATE DANGERS (as in Roundup herbicide) Message-ID: <2030370782.8690923@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 339 from New Scientist (UK) CANCER THREAT FROM GLYPHOSATE New Scientist says researchers in Sweden have linked pesticides to one of the most rapidly increasing cancers in the Western world, non-Hodgkins lymphoma - which has risen by 73% in the USA since 1973. This, says the journal, is probably caused by several commonly used crop sprays. The Lund University Hospital has found that Swedish sufferers of the disease were 2.7 times more likely to have been exposed to the herbicide MCPA than healthy people. "MCPA, which is used on grain crops, is sold as Target by the Swiss firm Novartis," says the journal. "The patients were also 2.3 times more likely to have had contact with glyphosate." "Use of [glyphosate] sold as Round-Up by the US firm Monsanto, is expected to rocket with the introduction of crops such as Roundup-Ready soya beans that are genetically modified to resist glyphosate. The researchers suggest that the chemicals have suppressed the patients' immunity, allowing viruses such as Epstein-Barr to trigger cancer." The report, on page 23 of New Scientist is by Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie PESTICIDE RAIN The rain over Europe contains illegal quantities of pesticide - FOL Today Rain falling over Europe contains such high levels of pesticide dissolved in it, that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking water, says this week's reporting Swiss work. Common cancers may well be caused by pesticides, says other research, from Sweden. These reports help to explain why politicians are so keen to impose tax on the use of pesticides - it would be a popular tax with a vast majority of the public. Studies in Switzerland, says New Scientist, have found toxic levels of atrazine, alachlor and other commonly used crop sprays in rain. A chemistfrom the Swiss Federal Institute for Environmental Science and Technology, Stephan Mller, says that drinking water standards for such chemicals are regularly exceeded in rain. The chemicals appear to have evaporated from fields and become part of the clouds. In the first minutes of a rain shower, the rain can contain far more than the limit of 100 nanograms/litre of any particular pesticide that's permitted in drinking water. One sample of rainfall contained 4,000 nanograms per litre of 2,4D; another contained around 900 nanograms of atrazine per litre. The highest concentrations appear in the first rainfall after a long dry period, especially when local fields have been sprayed. ---- For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the Ban-GEF list, send email to Ban-GEF@lists.txinfinet.com with HELP in the SUBJECT line. ---- Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:25:27 +0000 From: Jon r Subject: B-GE: GLYPHOSATE DANGERS -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 14:11:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02738 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA22762 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:13:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (root@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA22758 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pppsals (s30.max1.sb.rain.org [198.68.144.237]) by coyote.rain.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28566; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <02dc01be8119$67990680$ed9044c6@pppsals> From: "Sal" To: , Subject: Fw: GLYPHOSATE DANGERS (as in Roundup herbicide) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:09:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 340 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 9:03 AM Subject: GLYPHOSATE DANGERS (as in Roundup herbicide) > from New Scientist (UK) > > CANCER THREAT FROM GLYPHOSATE > > New Scientist says researchers in Sweden have linked pesticides to one of the > most rapidly increasing cancers in the Western world, non-Hodgkins lymphoma - > which has risen by 73% in the USA since 1973. This, says the journal, is > probably caused by several commonly used crop sprays. > > The Lund University Hospital has found that Swedish sufferers of the disease > were 2.7 times more likely to have been exposed to the herbicide MCPA than > healthy people. "MCPA, which is used on grain crops, is sold as Target by the > Swiss firm Novartis," says the journal. > > "The patients were also 2.3 times more likely to have had contact with > glyphosate." > > "Use of [glyphosate] sold as Round-Up by the US firm Monsanto, is expected to > rocket with the introduction of crops such as Roundup-Ready soya beans that > are genetically modified to resist glyphosate. The researchers suggest that > the chemicals have suppressed the patients' immunity, allowing viruses such as > Epstein-Barr to trigger cancer." > > The report, on page 23 of New Scientist is by Fred Pearce and Debora > Mackenzie > > PESTICIDE RAIN > > The rain over Europe contains illegal quantities of pesticide - FOL Today Rain > falling over Europe contains such high levels of pesticide dissolved in it, > that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking water, says this week's > reporting Swiss work. > > Common cancers may well be caused by pesticides, says other research, from > Sweden. These reports help to explain why politicians are so keen to impose > tax on the use of pesticides - it would be a popular tax with a vast majority > of the public. > > Studies in Switzerland, says New Scientist, have found toxic levels of > atrazine, alachlor and other commonly used crop sprays in rain. A chemistfrom > the Swiss Federal Institute for Environmental Science and Technology, Stephan > Mller, says that drinking water standards for such chemicals are regularly > exceeded in rain. > > The chemicals appear to have evaporated from fields and become part of the > clouds. In the first minutes of a rain shower, the rain can contain far more > than the limit of 100 nanograms/litre of any particular pesticide that's > permitted in drinking water. > > One sample of rainfall contained 4,000 nanograms per litre of 2,4D; another > contained around 900 nanograms of atrazine per litre. > > The highest concentrations appear in the first rainfall after a long dry > period, especially when local fields have been sprayed. > > ---- > For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the Ban-GEF list, send > email to Ban-GEF@lists.txinfinet.com with HELP in the SUBJECT line. > ---- > > Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 09:25:27 +0000 > From: Jon r > Subject: B-GE: GLYPHOSATE DANGERS > > > -- > http://www.greenbuilder.com > modem: 512.288.3903 > -- > Green Building Professionals Directory at > http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 14:19:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02853 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA27645 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.utexas.edu (wb1-a.mail.utexas.edu [128.83.126.134]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA27560 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29650 invoked by uid 0); 7 Apr 1999 17:22:12 -0000 Received: from rsocpce.tamu.edu (HELO rsocpce) (165.91.106.13) by umbs-smtp-1 with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 17:22:12 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990407122257.00805e80@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: blevy@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:22:57 -0700 To: Mark , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Betsy Ilima Levy Subject: Re: price of food In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990407101408.007b29d0@crocker.com> References: <199904062210.SAA16251@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 341 Hi - I understand (and would be interested in hearing from growers on this) that there is also a significant problem with grocers marking produce as organic whether it is or not, and in other ways defrauding the "real" organic growers. There is just plenty of financial incentive to fudge on the definition of organic when the mark-up is so significant. On the other hand, one trend I've noticed in high-end stores here in Austin (Whole Foods, Central Market, etc.) is the rising prices of even conventional produce displayed next to organic. It's almost as if the premium cost of organic has made the retailers and consumers assume that any "quality" produce should cost more. In some cases this is partially justified by some unusual quality of the produce - in others, there doesn't seem to be anything "special" about the stuff. At 10:14 AM 4/7/99 -0400, Mark wrote: >I am one of those people who is willing to spend more to support things I >believe in, but what we have not yet addressed in this discussion is the >fact that once organic food leaves the farm, the farmer has little control >over the retail price. I am tired of being gouged by natural food stores >and coops selling wilted, aphid covered organic kale for $1.99 a pound! I >grow a lot of my own vegetables organically so I am not afraid of a few >bugs, but if I am turned off by the produce imagine how a more squeamish >consumer would feel. So the food goes to waste, the store loses money and >the prices stay high. > >Another problem with the price of food was told to me by a local organic >farmer. He sells his organic strawberries to two coops. Strawberries >obviously have a limited shelf life. In one coop, they mark them down as >they start to look a little old. This store sells a lot of his berries, >because people buy them both when they are fresh and pay the premium price >and bargain hunters grab them when they are marked down. The other store >keeps the price the same no matter how old and spotty they get. And they >will not put out fresh berries until the old ones sell. So he does not >sell more than two flats a season at their store. And people get the >impression that his organic berries are brown and squishy and cost too much! > >So we also need to counter the impression that organic food looks worse >than conventional food, especially when retailers have a hand in it. > >Mark >---------------------------------------------------- >Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) >Hampshire College >893 West Street >Amherst MA 01002-5001 >T: 413-559-5338 >F: 413-559-5404 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 14:54:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03772 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA19093 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:57:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA18990 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00AF54BD@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:56:58 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 7 Apr 99 13:56:54 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 7 Apr 99 13:56:47 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:56:43 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: food prices In-reply-to: <199904052210.SAA10960@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1F428A05D28@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 342 > On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:18:53 EST5EDT, Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > >(But I agree that non organic food > >is dirt cheap -- and junk food seems the cheapest of all.) Anita > > I'm not convinced that the "organic is expensive and conventional is > cheap" line of reasoning holds completely. > > Consider an absolutely scrumptious organic navel orange at $1.00/lb > (they're 79 cents locally). Three oranges to the pound --- easily 3.5 > ounces of inside goodies for 33 cents. Tasty, nourishing, pure, and > natural --- probably helps support an organic family farm in > California. > > Compare that to an orange Popsicle -- 3.5 ounces of colored, flavored, > water, sweetend with what is probably GMO-corn syrup. Is it food? Whom > does it support? > > So which one is expensive, and why in light of that obvious answer do > people persist in calling *organic* food elitist ?? > Hold up!! You're comparing oranges and apples -- or in this case, oranges and popsicles. You can't compare prices of a raw ingredient with that of a processed food and make any conclusion about organic vs non organic food! The original post on this thread asserted that you could either buy raw ingredients and spend about $40/week or buy processed food and spend $100/week, and my response was that I do buy raw ingredients and STILL pay more like $100/week because I buy organic. I was assuming that $100/week was presented as an example of "high food costs" and since that's what I pay (for two people with thrifty ways and normal appetites), I can only conclude that organic is expensive. At the very least, it is quite a bit more expensive than non organic. For example, last week when I went shopping, a HALF gallon of milk cost $3.00 whereas regular milk was being advertised at $2.00 for ONE gallon (ie, 300% mark-up). [Can you see that I did not compare milk to ice cream or cheese?] I'm not begrudging anyone their due (and least of all farmers who only get a paltry percentage of the retail price anyway), but I would like to make the point that buying organic requires a strong will as it DOES make a dent in one's budget -- at least it does in mine. Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 16:20:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06708 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08270 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:15:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08234 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:15:44 -0500 Message-ID: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB062CB525@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "SANET-MG (E-mail)" Cc: "Poole, Melinda A." Subject: New Papers on the Web -- John Ikerd Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 14:15:42 -0500 Importance: low X-Priority: 5 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 343 Sanet Group; We have just placed five new papers on my web site: http://www.ssu.missouri.edu/faculty/jikerd/ These are all presentations made at meetings this past winter. Of course there is some overlapping of concepts and ideas among these papers and with earlier papers. However, nothing is ever really new. Every idea that exists today has been floating around in some form since the beginning of humankind. The only concept of "new" that we know is simply new arrangements of old parts. But, each new arrangement is, in fact, a "new whole." I hope at least some may gain new insights of their own from these "new arrangements." The following are brief abstracts of the papers so you can decide whether they are worth your further exploration. Thanks for your consideration. John Ikerd Sustainable Farming and Rural Community Development As agriculture has become industrialized, rural communities in agricultural areas have lost their fundamental purpose. Industrialization seemingly has destroyed the future of many rural communities as it has destroyed the future of farming. However, there are growing indications that the industrial era may be coming to a close. The continued industrialization of agriculture is but the last dying gasp of an obsolete way of thinking. The future of farming and of rural communities is in the sustainability paradigm for farming and for rural community development. The sustainability paradigm is consistent with the post-industrial, post-business visions of noted futurists such as Drucker and Toffler. The post-industrial era brings new possibilities for people to farm and to live in communities that are economically viable, ecologically sound, and socially responsible. The future of rural America belongs to those who have the vision and courage to claim it. Small Farms: Their Role in Our Farming Future The conventional wisdom is that farmers must either get bigger or get out of farming. The conventional wisdom is wrong. True, there is no future in continuing to produce basic agricultural commodities - corn, hogs, soybeans, cattle, etc. But, there is a future in producing the food and fiber products that people really want by methods that both can be sustained by nature and will be sustained by society. People have different tastes and preferences. We are not all alike, as mass marketers would have us believe. Nature is inherently diverse - even though industrial production methods demand homogeneity or sameness. These incompatibilities are primary sources of the non-sustainability of industrial systems. If national or global organic standards lead to an "industrial organic system," it will be neither ecologically sound nor socially responsible. Sustainable systems must conform to marketing and ecological niches inherent in nature - including human nature. Those niches are small and diverse -- not large and uniform. Small farms are real farms. Many small farm families depend on farming for a significant part of their economic, social, and spiritual way of life, if not their whole livelihood. Small farms can conform to the economic and ecological niches of markets and of nature. Small farms also are consistent with the visions of futurists for a post-industrial society. People will be at the center of the knowledge-based era of future human progress. To sustain a desirable quality of life on small farms, people must be at the center - as producers, as customers, as neighbors and fellow human beings. In Harmony with Nature Neither land nor people can be sustained unless they are given the attention, care, and affection - the love -- they need to survive, thrive, and prosper. The necessary attention, care, affection, and love come only from lives lived in harmony -- among people and between people and nature. The history of human civilization may be characterized as a continuing battle of "man against nature." "Man" has been winning all the battles, but continues to lose the war. We have destroyed so many wild beasts, wild rivers, plagues, and pests that we now risk destroying ourselves - destroying human civilization. How many more battles can we afford to win? Sustainable agriculture is a paradigm that seeks to work in harmony with nature and with people, and thus, represents a fundamental departure from past attempts to conquer nature. Concern for sustainability presumes some higher order of nature, including human nature, to which people must conform. Spirituality may be defined as a felt need to live in harmony with some higher order of things. Thus, sustainability is fundamentally spiritual in nature, in that it seeks harmony with nature instead of conquest. The New American Agricultural Revolution Sustainable agriculture has been defined as a quiet revolution - but the time for quietness has passed. Large agribusiness corporations - in the name of inevitable, technological progress - are forcing thousands of farm families from the land. Industrialization is neither inevitable nor is it progress. The time for quietness has passed. Thomas Paine, the revolutionary writer, used three basic strategies in developing the pamphlets that inevitably rekindled revolutionary spirits. He gave no quarter to the enemy, the British monarchy. But, he invariably went beyond criticism to paint a positive vision of the future of America - of the freedom and democracy to come. Finally, Paine never showed any doubt that the colonies would eventually win their freedom - there was simply no way the British could hold them in captivity if all demanded to be free. It's time for a new American revolution -- in agriculture. The enemy is an economic system that rewards the exploitation of both natural resources and people, as epitomized by the industrial corporation. It should be give no quarter. The positive vision of the future is a sustainable agriculture and a sustainable quality of life in America and around the world. It should be extolled at every opportunity. Finally, there is no way that industrialization can continue - it is destroying the very things upon which it ultimately depends. It's not sustainable. It's all just plain common sense. It's time for a revolution. Shared Leadership, Shared Responsibility and Shared Rewards: A Model for Sustainable Agriculture Programming Development - more often lack of development - of sustainable agriculture extension programs at the University of Missouri provides a case study of how not to do sustainable agriculture extension programming. In the mid-1990s, after five years of struggle, the program was a dismal failure. A shared leadership, shared responsibility approach to programming was then adopted - based on a flexible networking model developed by a USDA Extension planning group in the mid-1990s. Now the program is showing promise for the future. The lesson: Effective sustainable agriculture educational programs require a fundamentally different approach than do traditional extension technology transfer programs. The educational approach must be consistent with the types of information and concepts to be conveyed. Sustainable farming systems are inherently site-specific, individualistic, and dynamic in nature. Sustainable agricultural educational programs must have those same basic characteristics - they must be adaptable, flexible, and changeable in nature. They must empower people to think and learn for themselves - to solve their own problems rather than expect someone else to provide solutions. http://www.ssu.missouri.edu/faculty/JIkerd/ John E. Ikerd Extension Professor Co-coordinator, Sustainable Agricultural Systems Program College of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources 200 Mumford Hall Phone: (O) 573-882-4635 (H) 573-874-0408 FAX: 573-884-6572 e-mail: IkerdJ@missouri.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 16:35:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07019 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA17705 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:28:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.oakweb.com ([206.155.36.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA17592 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from california.net ([208.147.34.47]) by mail.oakweb.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-39373U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA217 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:25:40 -0700 Message-ID: <370BB314.30281AF1@california.net> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:33:41 -0700 From: Sara Prout X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Primer on Biotech sought References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC066@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 344 My husband is teaching 9th grade physical science and is looking for concise articles/pamphlets which describe the issues farmers/consumers are facing with the onslaught of bioengineered seed and food (particularly, but not limited to the agricultural implications of the biotech industry). Thank you. Sara To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 16:57:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07503 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA29461 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:49:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA29457 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31039 invoked from network); 7 Apr 1999 19:49:42 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-14.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.186) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 1999 19:49:42 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990407152031.009464b0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:46:16 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: price of food In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990407122257.00805e80@mail.utexas.edu> References: <3.0.6.32.19990407101408.007b29d0@crocker.com> <199904062210.SAA16251@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 345 Betsy Levy writes: >I understand (and would be interested in hearing from growers on this) that >there is also a significant problem with grocers marking produce as organic >whether it is or not, and in other ways defrauding the "real" organic >growers. Fraud in the pursuit of lucre is not limited to the retailer, of course. There have been instances of produce being mislabeled organic at the farm level. >It's almost as if the >premium cost of organic has made the retailers and consumers assume that >any "quality" produce should cost more. In some cases this is partially >justified by some unusual quality of the produce - in others, there doesn't >seem to be anything "special" about the stuff. Why shouldn't quality cost more? There are varying degrees of quality in unprocessed foods, just as there are in processed foods. Or furniture, or automobiles, or sneakers, or anything else that is produced and sold. The difference between a high-quality O-ring and a low-quality one may not be outwardly evident, but I'd like to think the airline I'm flying on forked over the bucks for the higher quality. Unfortunately, food seems to have become more "commodity-ized" than just about anything else. Milk is milk, apples are apples, green beans are green beans, beef is beef. It's like saying a car is a car, when in fact some are BMWs and some are Neons. The only product differentiation that many consumers understand is "organic.'" That's unfortunate, and short-sighted. Premium-quality produce (which might mean a superior-tasting or high-nutrition variety, or produce that was harvested yesterday instead of last week, or produce that was hand-picked or hand-sorted) generally is more expensive to grow, handle, and market--whether it's organic or not. If it doesn't command a higher price, it makes no sense for farmers to grow it or for retailers to sell it. Whether consumers will pay for quality isn't even the big question. The big question is whether they still recognize it. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net www.flickerville.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 17:51:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08909 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA10219 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:07:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from foe.org (No.Such.Address.at.Essential.ORG [216.0.124.66] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA10197 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FOE-Message_Server by foe.org with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:57:33 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:57:11 -0400 From: "valerie frances" To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Hain Food Group and Heinz USA Expand Strategic... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA10204 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 346 Hain Food Group and Heinz USA Expand Strategic Partnership to Strengthen Growth of Earth's Best(R) Organic Baby Food UNIONDALE, N.Y., April 6 /PRNewswire/ -- The Hain Food Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: HAIN) and Heinz U.S.A., a division of H.J. Heinz Company (NYSE: HNZ), announced an agreement regarding the sale and distribution of the Earth's Best(R) line of organic baby food products in the U.S. retail grocery and natural food channels, according to Irwin D. Simon, president and chief executive officer, of Hain. This announcement expands the companies' current business relationship, first concluded in May 1998, to include U.S. retail grocery customers, building upon the success of the partnership in the natural food segment. The agreement transfers responsibilities to Hain for the sale and distribution of the existing Earth's Best(R) line, as well as new product development and introduction utilizing the Earth's Best(R) trademark for infant and toddler feeding products. Terms were not disclosed. Simon commented, "Our agreement with Heinz will allow us to market Earth's Best(R) products directly to U.S. retail grocery customers and expand our presence in the organic food category. We are very enthused about how our relationship with Heinz has grown through increased product development and distribution. We expect to continue new product introductions that will benefit Hain and the Earth's Best(R) consumer." Joseph Jimenez, president and chief executive officer of Heinz North America, added, "Having successfully demonstrated our ability to build the Earth's Best(R) business in the natural foods channel, Heinz and Hain are well positioned to pursue opportunities in the retail industry. We're confident that Hain's expertise in the growing organic segment will make a positive impact with our retail customers." Earth's Best(R) was the first 100% organic baby food available nationally and remains the leading -- and only -- full-line organic brand in North America, with two recent new product introductions, Earth's Best(R) Teething Biscuits and Whole Grain Oatmeal Cereal. Heinz U.S.A., which acquired Earth's Best in 1996, has manufactured baby food for more than 65 years and its global infant feeding sales are approximately $1 billion. Heinz U.S.A. is the largest affiliate of the H.J. Heinz Company, a global marketer with annual sales exceeding $10 billion. Certain of the statements in this press release are forward looking in nature and, accordingly, are subject to risks and uncertainties. The actual results may differ from those described or contemplated. The Hain Food Group, headquartered in Uniondale, N.Y., is a natural, specialty and snack food company. The Company is a leader in many of the top 15 natural food categories, with such well-known natural food product lines as Hain Pure Foods(R), Westbrae(R) Natural, Westsoy(R), Arrowhead Mills(R), Garden of Eatin'(R), Terra Chips(R), DeBoles(R), Earth's Best(R) and Nile Spice. The Company's principal specialty and snack food product lines include Hollywood(R) cooking oils, Estee(R) sugar-free products, Weight Watchers(R) dry and refrigerated products, Kineret(R) kosher foods, Boston Better Snacks(R), Harry's Premium Snacks and Alba Foods(R). SOURCE The Hain Food Group, Inc. CO: The Hain Food Group, Inc.; Heinz USA; H.J. Heinz Company ST: New York Valerie Frances Friends of the Earth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 19:05:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA11868 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23990 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:03:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23979 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26882>; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:03:37 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Apr7.170337cdt.26882@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:02:34 -0500 Subject: Re: food prices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 347 You Wrote: Hold up!! You're comparing oranges and apples -- or in this case, oranges and popsicles. You can't compare prices of a raw ingredient with that of a processed food and make any conclusion about organic vs non organic food! The original post on this thread asserted that you could either buy raw ingredients and spend about $40/week or buy processed food and spend $100/week, and my response was that I do buy raw ingredients and STILL pay more like $100/week because I buy organic. I was assuming that $100/week was presented as an example of "high food costs" and since that's what I pay (for two people with thrifty ways and normal appetites), I can only conclude that organic is expensive. At the very least, it is quite a bit more expensive than non organic. For example, last week when I went shopping, a HALF gallon of milk cost $3.00 whereas regular milk was being advertised at $2.00 for ONE gallon (ie, 300% mark-up). [Can you see that I did not compare milk to ice cream or cheese?] I'm not begrudging anyone their due (and least of all farmers who only get a paltry percentage of the retail price anyway), but I would like to make the point that buying organic requires a strong will as it DOES make a dent in one's budget -- at least it does in mine. Speaking of apples vs. oranges: You are comparing a convenience quantity (1/2gl) to a bulk quantity (gl) which invalidates the comparison. Any retailer has preferences of sizes that s/he wants to handle. That preference is expressed as price premium/discount for preferred sizes. Further, milk is a less than satisfactory item to compare since grocers commonly discount selected meat, puoltry & dairy items as "loss leaders". I would suggest your original subject (organic oranges vs. non-organic oranges) might make a better basis for comparison by the #, the crate or by the 50# bag of each... To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 19:24:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA12242 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA18341 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:43:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA18248 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA13326 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:42:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199904072242.SAA13326@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Canadian Thistle To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:42:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 348 Friends - what is the best way to eradicate Canadian Thistle in our organic farm plots? I've heard that an aggressive tilling followed by several plantings of buckwheat will do it, but I wonder what sort of tillage equipment works best. Any helpful tips would be much appreciated. Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 19:24:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA12246 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA15324 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:38:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA15283 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA12859 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:38:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199904072238.SAA12859@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: grain harvesting To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:38:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 349 Friends - Is there anyone out there who knows of anyone selling and/or manufacturing small scale, low tech grain harvesters? I've heard there are walk-behind models around. I'm also interested in small people-powered threshers, like those used in developing countries. Any info on this would be much appreciated. Thanks, Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 20:42:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA13716 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA04380 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:51:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA04317 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904072351.TAA04317@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.117] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AF3990905C8; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:50:17 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:50:45 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Popsicles, again Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 350 Organic orange versus Popsicle is a valid comparison, because what you are buying is an orange snack for your kid (or yourself). Equal weight, equal price. One is nourishing food, the other, if concentrated, could be finger paint. The organic orange is a much better value, unless you want a dual-purpose product, in which case buy the Popsicle. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 21:23:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14423 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:23:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA29479 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:32:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA29368 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool036-max2.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.235.236]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA17206 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990407152108.008f0150@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 15:21:08 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: Re: Price of Organic Food In-Reply-To: <199904071607.MAA10722@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 351 Hi y'all, Organic food can be cheaper to buy. You gotta cooperate! I'm doing a little project on campus at Cal Poly Pomona (California State Polytechnic University Pomona). The college of agriculture farms about 200-acres of our 1,500-acre campus, selling some produce at local farmers markets, a lot in the campus Farm stStore, and most of the crops get fed to campus livestock. My project is looking into market demand for a CSA-style weekly drop at the student apartments on campus. About 800 students live there, and according to my survey figures: over 95% would subscribe if a service were started. Question 1: What other schools are doing this? Most of my food needs are currently met through a small buying coop. We all pitch-in, and our selected shoppers do their thing. For the $24-$29 each of us pays per week, we receive an abundance of bioregional, organic, fresh produce, baked goods, dairy, condiments,pasta, beans, grains, etc. (Beer brewing is another coop, so doesn't show up in this study.) I'm finding that the money spent by the apartment students is about $10 more per week, and they are almost all unsatisfied with their inadequate consumption of fruits and vegetables. It looks like high time to expand our little coop to include the apartments, but scaling up may be tough. Question 2: What books and/or software packages can you reccommend for buyers coops? Question 3: Where can I find a list of (local) buyers coops? Thanks, Fred At 12:07 PM 4/7/99 -0400, sanet-mg-digest wrote: >From: Phil Gillman >Subject: organic food prices > >definitely call the OFRF at >and check out their website http://www.ofrf.org >They just released their most recent survey of organic producers, which >includes organic commodity prices, the summary is on the web, the whole >thing is only $10 > >phil gillman >southland farmers market association >pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org >ps- are you doing a study- if so we'd love to see the results > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 10:14:08 -0400 >From: Mark >Subject: Re: price of food > >I am one of those people who is willing to spend more to support things I >believe in, but what we have not yet addressed in this discussion is the >fact that once organic food leaves the farm, the farmer has little control >over the retail price. I am tired of being gouged by natural food stores >and coops selling ... >So we also need to counter the impression that organic food looks worse >than conventional food, especially when retailers have a hand in it. > >Mark >- ---------------------------------------------------- >Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) >Hampshire College >893 West Street >Amherst MA 01002-5001 >T: 413-559-5338 >F: 413-559-5404 > FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 23:58:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16722 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA05113 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:55:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA05105 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:54:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp90.epix.net [205.238.243.90]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA05332; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <370C1BD5.6E0AC3FB@epix.net> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:00:38 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Smyth CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Canadian Thistle References: <199904072242.SAA13326@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 352 Kevin Smyth wrote: > Friends - what is the best way to eradicate Canadian Thistle in our > organic farm plots? Kevin, I've found that alfalfa hay will take out Canada Thistle in 2 or 3 years. I believe the constant cutting it what depletes the thistle. You might not have hay in your rotation, but this does work. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 7 23:58:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16730 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA06066 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:56:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA05897 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 22:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([148.233.240.112]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:55:35 -0500 Message-ID: <370C22F5.2EA3277F@acnet.net> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 21:31:02 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" , Grace_J.Gershuny@usda.gov Subject: Re Grace Gershuny's letter to "The Ecologist" magazine Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------36C3FC5E17A9D4A1253D3CEA" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 353 --------------36C3FC5E17A9D4A1253D3CEA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Back after a 6 month e-mail fast (not a holiday - no phone, no local ISP). This is a medium long post Hi Grace: I read your letter to "The Ecologist" and would like to preface my remarks about it by saying that it cleared up a few important points and certainly didn't seem to me to be the work of the devil in disguise (although perhaps the OMB deserves that honor). On the contrary, the human being discernible behind the words appears to be a thinking person who's had a decent preparation for the position she now holds. I say this not out any intent or need to be condescending, but because I too want YOU to be up front with any response that you may care to provide (and that I do in fact, expect). It seems to me that at the base of the confusion or conflict - or whatever you want to call the diversity & divergence of opinions, orientations & positions taken in relation to "the attempt by USDA to regulate the labeling of organic products", lies a simple question: Does certification (by the USDA or anyone else) make it so? I will NOT call the USDA to account regarding the validity or lack of same for a rule that doesn't yet exist. (As you clearly point out, what's coming down is a "proposed" rule, and not even quite the one that WAS proposed by the USDA National Organic Program staff, thanks to the OMB). Let's assume for discussions sake that the final rule will in fact be congruent with the intention, spirit and tradition of organic farming in the deepest sense of the word. This issue that concerns ME, and one that I feel was NOT adequately addressed in your letter can be demonstrated by the following quote from it: "To characterize the requirement that products labeled as organic comply with the USDAs regulations as giving the agency a monopoly on the word is idiotic [emphasis added], as is the claim that it would either limit free speech rights or criminalize dissent. I will accept your apology beforehand (if you like) for your poor choice of words (your use of the word idiotic here was stupid - there, we're even). The problem is THIS: Compliance with the USDA's regulations for products labeled as organic means COMPULSORY certification (which of course according the terms of the OFPA, means USDA certification). Linking certification for goods sold as "certified organic" within the U.S. to USDA oversight for the "consistent national standards for organic production" that OFPA pretends to establish is fine (once again, assuming the standard established is congruent and supported consensually by the existing organic community). However, evidently you, others and OFPA equate "organic" labeling with "certified organic" labeling, when I and others believe that the need (or lack of need) for certification itself is a matter best left within the buyer / seller relationship. There are valid reasons to certify. There are also valid reasons to NOT certify, depending on a number of variables that either are not taken into account or are de-emphasized, by both OFPA itself and the USDA National Organic Program staff. You may claim that your authority originates with OFPA (since the USDA National Organic Program itself was born from it), and are powerless to evaluate anything beyond the scope of your job description). If so, although I can understand and appreciate that, it's not my problem, it's yours (however, you can count on me for any help you feel I may be able to supply, as long as my own principles aren't violated by it), and my principles tell me that compulsory certification invalidates any benefits that an OFPA without compulsory certification could well provide. Once again, the distinction between claiming a given product is "organic" (which could still be subject to being in conformance with all aspects of OFPA except compulsory certification - assuming once again, that an adequate rule is forthcoming) and claiming that it has been "certified" as organic, is important here. How important? Enough so that if OFPA requires compulsory certification in order to function (which is a premise I do not accept), I'd say we're better off without OFPA. Lastly, I felt your remarks in the paragraph about "the so-called eco-labeling prohibition" did not fully clarify the "misunderstanding" (although maybe the divergence in our respective positions is responsible for that perception on my part - which doesn't make it less true). I still see an intent to prevent an true organic grower who may choose to not certify and / or not need to certify, from proclaiming that his product meets organic (even USDA organic) standards, when it isn't certified organic. If a valid rule is in the works, let the USDA supervise the certification process for goods sold within the U.S. - without mandatory certification. If that means modifying OFPA, so be it. Make it a valid choice (not compulsory) by giving a valid rule and it may well do what it was meant to do. I for one don't question your intentions (just some of your assumptions). Nor do I assume that this issue can't be resolved, at least as far as YOU are concerned (for starters). However, it hasn't yet been resolved and won't be, until it IS resolved. Until then, I don't anticipate any change in my position, which is one of total opposition to implementing OFPA as it now reads. If that is of little concern to you, we'll have to see what happens a little farther on down the road. OFPA won't work with compulsory certification. It'll never get off the ground. The divisions are already too deep. Feel free to respond directly if you prefer, or consider that the interest of the majority of Saneters in this issue may be lacking. And thanks in advance for your response. -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address) Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412 6308 (direct) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx --------------36C3FC5E17A9D4A1253D3CEA Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Back after a 6 month e-mail fast (not a holiday - no phone, no local ISP).

    This is a medium long post

    Hi Grace:

     I read your letter to "The Ecologist" and would like to preface my remarks about it by saying that it cleared up a few important points and certainly didn't seem to me to be the work of the devil in disguise (although perhaps the OMB deserves that honor). On the contrary, the human being discernible behind the words appears to be a thinking person who's had a decent preparation for the position she now holds.  I say this not out any intent or need to be condescending, but because I too want YOU to be up front with any response that you may care to provide (and that I do in fact, expect).

     It seems to me that at the base of the confusion or conflict - or whatever you want to call the diversity & divergence of opinions, orientations & positions taken in relation to "the attempt by USDA to regulate the labeling of organic products", lies a simple question:  Does certification (by the USDA or anyone else) make it so?  I will NOT call the USDA to account regarding the validity or lack of same for a rule that doesn't yet exist.  (As you clearly point out, what's coming down is a "proposed" rule, and not even quite the one that WAS proposed by the USDA National Organic Program staff, thanks to the OMB).

     Let's assume for discussions sake that the final rule will in fact be congruent with the intention, spirit and tradition of organic farming in the deepest sense of the word.  This issue that concerns ME, and one that I feel was NOT adequately addressed in your letter can be demonstrated by the following quote from it:  "To characterize the requirement that products labeled as organic comply with the USDAs regulations as giving the agency a monopoly on the word is idiotic [emphasis added], as is the claim that it would either limit free speech rights or criminalize dissent.

     I will accept your apology beforehand (if you like) for your poor choice of words (your use of the word idiotic here was stupid - there, we're even).  The problem is THIS:  Compliance with the USDA's regulations for products labeled as organic means COMPULSORY certification (which of course according the terms of the OFPA, means USDA certification).  Linking certification for goods sold as "certified organic" within the U.S. to USDA oversight for the "consistent national standards for organic production" that OFPA pretends to establish is fine (once again, assuming the standard established is congruent and supported consensually by the existing organic community).

     However, evidently you, others and OFPA equate "organic" labeling with "certified organic" labeling, when I and others believe that the need (or lack of need) for certification itself is a matter best left within the buyer / seller relationship.  There are valid reasons to certify.  There are also valid reasons to NOT certify, depending on a number of variables that either are not taken into account or are de-emphasized, by both OFPA itself and the USDA National Organic Program staff.

     You may claim that your authority originates with OFPA (since the USDA National Organic Program itself was born from it), and are powerless to evaluate anything beyond the scope of your job description).  If so, although I can understand and appreciate that, it's not my problem, it's yours (however, you can count on me for any help you feel I may be able to supply, as long as my own principles aren't violated by it), and my principles tell me that compulsory certification invalidates any benefits that an OFPA without compulsory certification could well provide.

     Once again, the distinction between claiming a given product is "organic" (which could still be subject to being in conformance with all aspects of OFPA except compulsory certification - assuming once again, that an adequate rule is forthcoming) and claiming that it has been "certified" as organic, is important here.  How important?  Enough so that if OFPA requires compulsory certification in order to function (which is a premise I do not accept), I'd say we're better off without OFPA.

     Lastly, I felt your remarks in the paragraph about "the so-called eco-labeling prohibition" did not fully clarify the "misunderstanding" (although maybe the divergence in our respective positions is responsible for that perception on my part - which doesn't make it less true).  I still see an intent to prevent an true organic grower who may choose to not certify and / or not need to certify, from proclaiming that his product meets organic (even USDA organic) standards, when it isn't certified organic.  If a valid rule is in the works, let the USDA supervise the certification process for goods sold within the U.S. - without mandatory certification.  If that means modifying OFPA, so be it.  Make it a valid choice (not compulsory) by giving a valid rule and it may well do what it was meant to do.

     I for one don't question your intentions (just some of your assumptions).  Nor do I assume that this issue can't be resolved, at least as far as YOU are concerned (for starters). However, it hasn't yet been resolved and won't be, until it IS resolved. Until then, I don't anticipate any change in my position, which is one of total opposition to implementing OFPA as it now reads.

     If that is of little concern to you, we'll have to see what happens a little farther on down the road.  OFPA won't work with compulsory certification.  It'll never get off the ground.  The divisions are already too deep.

     Feel free to respond directly if you prefer, or consider that the interest of the majority of Saneters in this issue may be lacking.  And thanks in advance for your response.

    --

    Douglas M. Hinds, Director General
    Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR)
    (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit)
    Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address)
    Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address)
    Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO
    U.S. Voice Mailbox:  1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked)
    U.S. Fax Mailbox:  1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked)
    Tel. & Fax:  011 523 412 6308 (direct)
    e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx
      --------------36C3FC5E17A9D4A1253D3CEA-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 00:14:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA16935 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA19022 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:16:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tully.jetstream.net (tully.jetstream.net [207.23.175.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA18919 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.23.187.151] (I58-P56.jetstream.net [207.23.187.58]) by tully.jetstream.net (8.8.7/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA01712 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:44:08 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Rebecca Kneen Subject: Re: Primer on Biotech sought Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 354 Dear Sara and SANET - Try the latest issue of The Ram's Horn (email: ) or the BC Biotech Circle (same address) for a great 2-page introduction to the basic science of biotech, and for more detailed information. Provided free by a well-known scholar and anti-biotech activist (my father) Brewster Kneen. Look for his new book, Farmageddon, due out in May from New Society Publishers. Rebecca Kneen >Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:33:41 -0700 >From: Sara Prout >Subject: Primer on Biotech sought > >My husband is teaching 9th grade physical science and is looking for >concise articles/pamphlets which describe the issues farmers/consumers >are facing with the onslaught of bioengineered seed and food >(particularly, but not limited to the agricultural implications of the >biotech industry). > >Thank you. >Sara > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 01:56:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA18202 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA23004 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:53:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA22907 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 00:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([148.233.240.75]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:52:23 -0500 Message-ID: <370C43D2.F839839A@acnet.net> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:51:15 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Inducing Floration in Pineapple using non synthetic materiales Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 355 Pineapple tend to flower natuarally only during 3-4 months a year. In order to grow and provide organic pineapple during a more prolonged period, it is necessary to induce the plant to flower using a non synthetic source of (I would think) ethylene, which can be disolved in water using activated charcoal. Can anybody provide any information or ideas regarding a practical solution to this problem? (Producing certifiably organic fruit over a longer time frame). Another possible approach (I don't much like the idea of "tricking" the plant, but) perhaps the conditions the plant responds to can be recreated so that the induced flowering is grounded in having satisfied the plants needs. Thanks in advance. -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address) Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412 6308 (direct) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 09:30:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23405 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA28332 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:44:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA28295 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.182] (st-ppp08.hevanet.com [198.5.254.182]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA04010; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 05:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904081244.FAA04010@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 05:45:59 -0700 Subject: FW: "piggyBac" Gene Cluld Thwart Insect Pests From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 356 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: "piggyBac" Gene Cluld Thwart Insect Pests Date: Thu, Apr 8, 1999, 4:25 AM STORY LEAD: Scientists Alter Insects Using Special Genetic Element ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov April 8, 1999 ----------- Agricultural Research Service scientists are using a special genetic element from moths that "jump" between chromosomes to genetically change insects. This special element could enable scientists to create sterile insects for release into the wild to disrupt mating of pest populations. It also could help the scientists mark insect populations for better tracking and monitoring. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. Malcolm Fraser, Jr., an associate professor with the University of Notre Dame in Notre Dame, Ind., discovered the genetic element, called piggyBac, in 1985. ARS physiologist Paul D. Shirk, in collaboration with researcher O. P. Perera of the University of Florida, is testing piggyBac to see if it will work in pests that invade stored products. A primary target is the Indianmeal moth (Plodia interpunctella), the number one stored product pest. Shirk works at ARS' Center for Medical, Agricultural and Veterinary Entomology (CMAVE) in Gainesville, Fla. Geneticist Alfred M. Handler, also with CMAVE, has successfully demonstrated piggyBac's effectiveness in genetically changing fruit flies by using it to change their eye color. This shows that piggyBac can carry different genes into flies and is useful for changing or creating genetic differences in these insects. Fruit flies cause major damage to citrus and other crops worldwide. An in-depth article on this research appears in the April issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr99/gene0499.htm ---------- Scientific contacts: Paul D. Shirk and Alfred M. Handler, ARS Center for Medical, Agricultural and Veterinary Entomology, Gainesville, Fla., phone (352) 374-5720 [Shirk], (352) 374-5793 [Handler]; fax (352) 374-5794; pshirk@gainesville.usda.ufl.edu, handler@nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * For photos, media sources should contact ARS Photo Unit at (301) 504-1606 or arsphoto@asrr.arsusda.gov. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 09:57:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23891 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14452 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:06:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14425 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Lbauer.unl.edu (129.93.89.132) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 08 Apr 99 08:06:48 CDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990408130020.0074d3d8@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: sare003@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:00:20 -0500 To: ncrsare@UNL.EDU, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, jauburn@reeusda.gov, kkroll@asrr.arsusda.gov, vberton@wam.umd.edu, san@nal.usda.gov, fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu, smg1@psu.edu, bholtzma@zoo.uvm.edu, soilcomp@cc.usu.edu, kkelleher@ucdavis.edu, rwelsh@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu, rcricken@amaroq.ces.ncsu.edu, groland@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu, pdpstco@UNL.EDU, ncrsarenews@UNL.EDU From: Lisa Bauer Subject: New PDP Coordinator in NC SARE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA14437 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 357 A N N O U N C E M E N T April 8, 1999 SARE APPOINTS PAUL FORD TO COORDINATE NORTH CENTRAL PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM LINCOLN, NE -- As farm families feel the pinch from low prices and unstable markets, the North Central Region (NCR) Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program announces the appointment of a new Professional Development Program (PDP) coordinator who will assist ag educators in helping producers move into more profitable, sustainable agricultural systems. "The competition for this position was stiff, but we're pleased to bring Paul Ford to our regional SARE team," said Elbert Dickey, NCR SARE regional extension coordinator. "Her experience and education will certainly enhance the North Central PDP and in turn provide solid information about sustainable agriculture to producers." Ford, of Manhattan, Kan., will take the post of NCR SARE PDP Coordinator on June 1, 1999, to coordinate the North Central Region PDP put in place to transfer sustainable agriculture information from Cooperative Extension, Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) and other ag personnel to farmers and ranchers. "The success of SARE PDP depends on the impact of the program on its participants state sustainable agriculture coordinators, ag professionals and producers," Ford said. "My goal is to facilitate the process through which participants can experience and build upon their own success, and develop their own capacity in sustainable agriculture." Ford, who will be housed at Kansas State University, will ensure that North Central educators are equipped with sustainable agriculture knowledge. As PDP Coordinator, she will help network educators, facilitate multi-state and regional educational programs or workshops, integrate SARE research results into educational programming, identify farmer and nonprofit leaders to teach agricultural educators, and collect and disseminate SARE educational materials on a region-wide basis. "The critical challenge for the North Central PDP is to identify mechanisms for expanding participation and awareness of the program, integrating SARE research results into traditional research and extension programs, and evaluating program effectiveness and impact," Ford said. She brings a diverse set of skills and knowledge to the position from more than a decade of professional experience in managing, coordinating and implementing programs in sustainable agriculture and food systems. Her past experience has included program manager of the Southern Region SARE program, coordinator of the Kansas Wetlands and Riparian Areas Alliance, and consulting work for Public Voice for Food Policy and the Community Food Security Coalition. She received her M.S. in Agronomy/Soils at the University of Georgia and her B.S. in Agronomy at Clemson University. Ford participated in a competitive process for the coordinator position and was recommended by a PDP committee to take the lead role in this region's PDP. At a March meeting, the NCR SARE Administrative Council approved Ford's appointment. Ford added, "As the new PDP Coordinator, I plan to serve in a facilitative as opposed to a directive capacity, Ford added. "Consistent with the overall philosophy of the SARE Program, the management of the PDP will be inclusive, participatory and responsive to its audience." For more information, contact Lisa Bauer at sare003@unlvm.unl.edu. *** The national SARE Program began with the 1985 Farm Bill. Congress appropriated initial funds in 1988 for grants in sustainable agriculture research, education and demonstration. Funding goes to producers, scientists, educators and public and private institutions and organizations in three grant programs, one being the Professional Development Program, which was established in 1994. The North Central Region, managed by a diverse Administrative Council and directed by two regional coordinators, is one of four regions in the SARE Program. *************************** Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) sare003@unlvm.unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare *************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 10:20:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA24440 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA26915 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:30:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA26893 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Lbauer.unl.edu (129.93.89.132) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 08 Apr 99 08:31:19 CDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990408132451.00c1bc44@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: sare003@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:24:51 -0500 To: ncrsare@UNL.EDU, pdpstco@UNL.EDU, ncrsarenews@UNL.EDU, jauburn@reeusda.gov, kkroll@asrr.arsusda.gov, vberton@wam.umd.edu, san@nal.usda.gov, fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu, smg1@psu.edu, bholtzma@zoo.uvm.edu, soilcomp@cc.usu.edu, kkelleher@ucdavis.edu, rwelsh@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu, rcricken@amaroq.ces.ncsu.edu, groland@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu From: Lisa Bauer Subject: New PDP Coordinator P.S. Cc: pford@oz.oznet.ksu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 358 **Paula Ford**, not PAUL Ford, was appointed as the new PDP coordinator in the North Central Region SARE program. I cannot explain why the letter "A" appeared in my Wordperfect file and was mysteriously erased in certain places in an ASCI file, but I apologize for the error -- especially to Paula! Lisa *************************** Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) sare003@unlvm.unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare *************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 11:17:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25715 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01357 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:27:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01338 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa- (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA23902 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990408103123.007a2b30@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:31:23 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Starting a flock of chickens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 359 OK, down to the grassroots here... I am going to start a small flock of chickens this year in a spot that currently has brambles, goldenrod and other assorted high growing stuff. I want to prep the area and the chix I am getting are good foragers (Dominiques). So, what is the best way to prep the spot? Brush hog it and turn it under and cover crop for a couple months? What is a good crop to sow to give the birds good forage and improve the soil (eventually for a garden)? Thanks, Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 14:01:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00718 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA05196 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:02:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05065 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000113358 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 1999 11:59:08 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), jon@cqs.com Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 16:59:30 GMT Subject: Re: Primer on Biotech sought Message-ID: <3546468187.14091317@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 360 There are some simple articles on the ToxicAlert website, www.cqs.com/egeneral.htm Jon Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 12:56 AM Subject: B-GE: Primer on Biotech sought >>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 12:33:41 -0700 >>From: Sara Prout >>Subject: Primer on Biotech sought >> >>My husband is teaching 9th grade physical science and is looking for >>concise articles/pamphlets which describe the issues farmers/consumers >>are facing with the onslaught of bioengineered seed and food >>(particularly, but not limited to the agricultural implications of the >>biotech industry). >> >>Thank you. >>Sara >> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 01:43:22 -0400 From: "Jon Campbell" Subject: Re: B-GE: Primer on Biotech sought -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 14:12:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00996 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA04213 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:59:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.caribe.net (root@mail.caribe.net [209.91.196.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA04196 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ddworley (ppp200.203dip.netdial.caribe.net [209.91.203.200]) by mail.caribe.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA13972 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:03:26 -0400 (AST) Message-Id: X-Sender: ddworley@mail.caribe.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:36:58 -0300 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Wolfson (by way of Daniel Worley ) Subject: GEN; Fwd, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 361 [Reposted with permision] English translation from An Ukrainian article from: "Golos Ukrayiny" ("The Voice of Ukraine") The newspaper of the Supreme Council of Ukraine No. 41 (2043) Friday March, 5 1999 Taming of the garden's Jinn A real war flared up in Ukraine. At the highest level. Sometimes even in the same ministry it is possible to hear inconsistent opinions on this point. The apple of discord has appeared to be a potato. But not a usual potato. Two years ago, a batch of genetically modified potato resistant to Colorado bugs, was delivered to the country by the American company "Monsanto". The Independent 4.4.99 EU plans for large scale GM disaster By Marie Woolf, Political Correspondent EUROPEAN governments are drawing up contingency plans for a nuclear fallout-style emergency involving genetically modified organisms. A five-point Emergency Response Plan has been formulated by the European Commission, designed to cope if genetically modified plants result in widespread illness or the death of wildlife. The draft directive, set to be adopted by ministers across Europe, includes plans to "decontaminate" affected areas and destroy plants and animals exposed to GMOs. The plan is designed to prevent a human health disaster and stop genetically modified plants breeding wildly with native species. The proposed five-point plans are similar to those used in the case of accidental nuclear leaks and will be a requirement of any new application to release genetically modified organisms once the law comes into force. ........ next article posted by jim@niall7.demon.co.uk (jim mcnulty) Africa Warned About Biotech Seeds Africa News Service Publication Date: April 07, 1999 Nairobi, Kenya (PANA) - African governments may be duped into endorsing the use of genetically engineered food crops as a solution to food problems in the continent, agro-scientists have warned. Scientists from the Nairobi-based International Centre of Insect Physiology and Ecology claimed that genetically engineered technology, being fronted by a leading international agro-industry giant, [ Monsanto ] was a plan to force farmers into the expensive biotech seeds. In a report, they pointed out that the African farmers were simply being taken off one trend mill (pesticides) and set on a new one by biotechnicians who are stockholders or technology driven. The report, released by the centre, accuses the agro-industry, led by Monsanto, of targeting developing countries through publicity that claims that "biotechnology is one of tomorrow's tools in our hands today. Slowing its acceptance is a luxury our hungry world cannot afford." It says that with tightening rules on biotech activities in Europe, Africa was now being targeted by many biotech companies for testing of transgenic crop varieties under the pretex that Africa needs these solution immediately. The centre's director general, Dr. Hans Herren, said in the report that the trend towards a quasi-monopolisation of funding in agricultural development into a narrow set of technologies was dangerous and irresponsible. "It is only too obvious to concerned scientists, farmers and citizens alike that we are about to repeat the mistakes of the insecticide era even before it is behind us," he warned. The scientists were also worried about this "profit-to-use trendmill" latest development which ensures that a given transgenic crop variety will not germinate in the second season forcing the farmer to buy new seeds every season. (Copyright 1999 Panafrican News Agency.) Distributed via Africa News Online by Africa News Service. (Copyright 1999 Africa News Service) _________________________________________________________ Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 14:32:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01500 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA26869 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:37:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from naszaly.zpok.hu (root@naszaly.zpok.hu [194.38.121.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA26772 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from idag-pe (dial11.c3.hu [194.38.96.111]) by naszaly.zpok.hu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA04277 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:37:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000e01be81e6$508c8480$6f6026c2@idag-pe> From: "Miro Kiss Ida" To: Subject: Organic bee-keeping Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:32:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 362 Dear Colleagues, could you, please, recommend me some sources on the web, or e-zines where they write about organic bee-keeping? Thank you. Ida Miro Kiss editor Biokultura Magazine (Hungary) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 15:08:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02394 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20383 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:16:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20223 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00B05769@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:16:11 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 8 Apr 99 14:16:07 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 8 Apr 99 14:15:54 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: "Pat Elazar" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:15:49 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: food prices CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: <99Apr7.170337cdt.26882@mint.cwb.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <20C7B171FFA@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 363 > Speaking of apples vs. oranges: You are comparing a convenience quantity (1/2gl) > to a bulk quantity (gl) which invalidates the comparison. Any retailer has > preferences of sizes that s/he wants to handle. That preference is expressed as > price premium/discount for preferred sizes. Further, milk is a less than > satisfactory item to compare since grocers commonly discount selected meat, > puoltry & dairy items as "loss leaders". > > I would suggest your original subject (organic oranges vs. non-organic oranges) > might make a better basis for comparison by the #, the crate or by the 50# bag > of each... Well, let's clear this up. In both the health food stores and the supermarkets in this area, organic milk is only sold by the half gallon. As for the "loss leader" theory, this would make my comparison LESS dramatic rather than more so. I have checked the price of organic milk in both "specialty" store and supermarket (I shop both every week) and at best the supermarket organic milk is only $.10 cheaper -- not much of a "loss leader" if you ask me. Other areas may be different, but that's how it is here. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 16:40:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04860 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA17366 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:47:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA17260 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool050-max9.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.150]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 2Q86V3L9; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:53:48 -0400 Message-ID: <370D0716.FF8D794D@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 12:44:23 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: regenerative@earthlink.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: farmers markets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 364 Come Check out our annual meeting Southland Farmers Market Association would like to invite you to our annual meeting on Sunday April 11th from 2:30 5:30 pm. The meeting will be held at the Beverly Hills Community Center Auditorium in Roxbury Park, following the Beverly Hills Farmers Market. Stan Crawford, Farmer and Author from Santa Fe, New Mexico is schedule to speak about farming and direct marketing, and refreshments will be available to all. Feel free to come early and explore the Beverly Hills Farmers Market Which is open from 9 am to 1 pm Please RSVP to Phil Gillman at 213.244.9190 x15 OR email pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org for more information The market and meeting are located at: Roxbury Park, 471 S. Roxbury Beverly Hills, CA Directions and Maps are available Thank You, Phil Gillman Southland Farmers Market Association 1308 Factory Place Box 68 Apt 3J Los Angeles, CA 90013 213.244.9190 213.244.9180 fax pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 17:04:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05284 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA25645 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:03:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA25454 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000113440 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:59:03 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), jon@cqs.com Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:58:55 GMT Subject: Latest Terminator propaganda tactic Message-ID: <3327782878.14740037@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 365 Hi, everyone, For those of you who received a propaganda piece from someone named StevenP@dplcorp. It's propaganda from Delta and Pine Land. Remember, they're the people who developed terminator with the USDA. Now Monsanto's subsidiary. They have skimmed the Internet for anyone who ever had his/her email address associated with genetic engineering of food, or terminator, and sending them this propaganda piece. Someone I know got it who had never had his name on any of the GE lists. (t is altogether possible that the USDA provided Monsanto with the email list of the people who sent letters about the organic standard.) The email serves two purposes: 1. Tries to convince us that they really know what they are doing, and we don't have to worry about them. Fat chance. It was in this piece that I discovered they admit that the terminator gene is likely to be in the pollen, and likely to spread to non-target species and wild plants (the author considers it a FEATURE that the resultant seed will be sterile, because it will then assumedly prevent the plant from reproducing. He forgets, however, that while the plant produces the sterile seed IT PRODUCES POLLEN!!!!! 2. It puts us on notice that Monsanto knows about us. Scare tactics. Do not underestimate this company. This is the company that has sought an injunction against activists in the UK to reveal the names of everyone to whom an anti-Monsanto booklet was given, sought injunctions against journalists and MPs from going near Monsanto plots, (and earlier) lied to Congress, gotten an EPA researcher sent to the back offices, sued at least one prominent environmental researcher. I have read that they have 500 Pinkertons working for them in the Midwest and Canada. They own the USDA, FDA, the US Trade Office, and Bill Clinton here, and at least Tony Blair in the UK. This is the company that produced PCBs, Agent Orange, DDT, Pentachlorophenol, and now aspertame (Nutrisweet). Remember, promotion and success of this technology is a life and death issue for Monsanto. They sold off almost the entirety of the chemical divisions, except for those having to do with agriculture, and invested solely in biotech. They are the 2nd largest seed company, almost overnight. They buy whole seed companies. Jon --- TPS Brief Paper PROTECTING TECHNOLOGY AND ENCOURAGING DEVELOPMENT The Technology Protection System (TPS), developed through the efforts of the United States Department of Agriculture+s Agricultural Research Service (USDA-ARS) and Delta and Pine Land Company (D&PL), has received significant attention since the patent was awarded last spring. To insure that D&PL employees and others in the agricultural industry have accurate information, we have prepared this information on TPS. WHY TPS? This technology will insure North American farmers a more level playing field when competing in commodity production with farmers worldwide. North American farmers have been paying for advanced seed technologies for the past several years based upon the value of proven enhancements. Some of these advanced technologies have been pirated into other countries without payments by the farmers receiving the advantages of these traits, creating an uneven playing field. TPS will also stimulate breeding and marketing efforts in countries which have not benefited from advances currently available in the developed world due to lack of protection of intellectual property. Critics of TPS say the technology will limit choices these farmers have. However, it will actually result in growers, particularly in less developed countries, having more options available to them, including high-yielding, disease-resistant and even transgenic varieties. We expect this new opportunity to present farmers in developing countries with the option of moving into production agriculture rather than their current subsistence farming. BIOSAFETY REALIZED THROUGH TPS Biosafety produced by TPS prevents the remote possibility of transgene movement. There has been some concern that biotech- derived genes might cross to wild relatives. This slight possibility should be prevented by TPS activated plants, as even the pollen, if it happens to pollinate flowers of a wild, related species, will render the seed produced non-viable. In addition, the non-viable seed produced on TPS plants will prevent the possibility of volunteer plants, a major pest problem where rotation is practiced. UNDERSTANDING THE SYSTEM TPS is a transgenic system comprised of a complex array of genes and gene promoters which, in the normal state, are inactive. This means the plant is normal and produces normal seeds which germinate when planted. Seeds carrying TPS produced for sale to the farmer will simply have a treatment applied prior to the sale of the seed which, at time of germination, will trigger an irreversible series of events rendering the seed produced on farmers+ plants non-viable for replanting. It+s important to note that TPS, like hybridization, will have no effect on the seed product whether for feed, oil , fiber or other uses. OTHER GERMPLASM PROTECTION While TPS is a first in biotechnology-based germplasm protection systems, there are other means of protecting genetic breakthroughs. The most common type of protection system is hybrid seed production. Although primarily a system for increased yield via hybrid vigor, it is also a protection system. Hybrids are seen in many cross-pollinated crops such as corn, sorghum, sunflower and canola. Reduction in performance and changes from the parent seed leads to little saving of hybrid seed. Farmers, recognizing the value added from increased yields, are willing to buy new hybrid seed each year instead of saving and replanting seed from their previous crop. Their purchase of new seed each year insures quality and funds new research that leads to new and improved products. On the other hand, few germplasm protection systems have been successfully implemented for self-pollinated species, such as cotton, soybeans, wheat and rice. The difficulty in producing hybrids, combined with costly implementation and poor product performance has kept companies from investing heavily in some of these crops. FARMERS TO RECEIVE CHOICE AND BENEFITS Farmers will continue to select those varieties which offer the highest returns and most benefits to the farmer. As is currently the case with transgenic varieties, farmers will be able to choose from TPS and non-TPS varieties. It is the expectation of both D&PL and the USDA-ARS that the benefits realized by planting TPS varieties, carrying advanced technology traits, will be significant. Many farmers will be likely to choose TPS varieties when given the opportunity. TPS LIKELY TO INCREASE RESEARCH TPS will be broadly available to both large and small seed firms. Because of this, it is anticipated that TPS will encourage increased breeding research in many crop species and geographic areas. Consequently, there should be sizable improvements in technology. Delta and Pine Land Company and the USDA-ARS believe that this is a distinct advantage to farmers because they will have better varieties and transgenics more widely available to them. Genetic diversity in many important crops is a real concern of both private and public breeders today. There is no correlation between TPS and lack of genetic diversity. In fact, with the increased incentive for many private seed companies as well as universities to breed crops which have not received sufficient attention in the past, it is entirely possible that diversity will increase as breeders focus on providing unique and improved versions of germplasm to farmers. TIMETABLE FOR DEVELOPMENT Several years ago, a D&PL cotton breeder and researchers from the USDA-ARS generated the idea for a technology protection system during a casual meeting. With research beginning in 1993, it progressed over the next few years to move the concept to reality. In the spring of 1998, D&PL and the USDA were awarded a patent by the US government. The system is being developed further and we expect that it will be a few years before TPS transgenic varieties are commercialized. Though research is progressing well, there are no TPS plants, nor have there been any TPS plants of any species, growing in a field, anywhere in the world. MEASURING SUCCESS In the end, it is the farmers who will decide if the TPS and other new agricultural technologies have tangible benefits. Seed companies and technology providers are dependent on helping farmers be more successful. If a technology does not bring benefits and increased prosperity to our customers, then they will not purchase the technology. It is in everyone+s interest that more choices be available to all of the world+s farmers, and the TPS is a means of achieving this goal. FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION Dr. Harry B. Collins, Vice President of Technology Transfer, leads the TPS effort for D&PL and is glad to discuss the TPS with media, seed and technology companies, as well as individuals. He can be reached at D&PL+s headquarters in Scott, Mississippi by calling 601-742-4533 (8 a.m. to 5 p.m. CST), faxing 601-742-3795 or e- mailing harry%202.2946@mcimail.com _______________________________________________________ Advantages of TPS Advantages of the TPS include: 1. TPS will provide a more level playing field for North American farmers as farmers in other countries will also have to pay for varietal and transgenic traits. a. varieties historically have been pirated out of North America b. transgenic traits can and have been pirated out of North America 2. Biosafety Prevents the remote possibility of transgenic genes from escaping into the environment a. volunteer seeds of TPS plants which drop to the ground will be nonviable b. TPS pollen which could possibly fertilize flowers of a related wild species near a TPS crop field will produce nonviable seed 3. Increased Returns to Farmers Because of the possibility of a return on investment in breeding research, many more improved varieties, in a broader range of crop species, should be available. a. in crops which have not been given optimum breeding attention (ex. wheat, rice, soybeans) b. in countries in which breeding research has not been at a level proportionate to their agricultural importance c. transgenic traits should be more available to farmers in crops and in countries in which they have not been d. farmers should be the direct beneficiaries with more improved varieties carrying higher yields, improved quality traits and more and better pest resistance 4. TPS will assist in maintaining the integrity of refugia systems in transgenic fields. 5. Prevention of seed sprouting in the head prior to harvest 6. Genetic diversity may be increased with the increase in breeding efforts among many companies and institutions _____________________________________________________ Country Guide Magazine Article A Plant Breeding Boost For Cereals and Soybeans BY MAGGIE VAN CAMP Entangled in corporate takeover bids, press misinformation and activists+ fear-mongering, the terminator gene has become a focus of worldwide controversy. In North America, it has garnered more negative reaction than any other biotech innovation. Few understand how this technology works, or have a handle on its economic implications. But that hasn+t stopped the terminator gene from inspiring visions of Arnold Schwarzenegger-like seeds planning military maneuvers with corporate conglomerates. In reality, however, it is a benign and potentially highly beneficial crop breeding tool. In 1995, the USDA and a Mississippi cotton and soybean seed company, Delta and Pine Land (D&PL), filed for a patent for this method of controlling plant gene expression. In 1998, the inventors were awarded a U.S. patent under some controversy from farm groups and activists. Currently the patent is pending in 70 to 80 other countries, including Canada. Two months after the patent was awarded, Monsanto signed an agreement to buy D&PL for $1.8 U.S. billion. The takeover deal will likely close before the new year, after both companies get government and shareholder approval. Until then, Monsanto doesn+t have commercial access to terminator technology. D&PL is currently in closed negotiations with USDA to finalize control of the terminator technology. The plan is to sell the process to other seed companies. -This technology will be broadly available,- says Harry Collins, vice president of technology for D&PL. D&PL calls its package the Technology Protection System (TPS) because seeds can be sterilized, stopping the use of bin-run seed and forcing purchase of new seed. Their method essentially activates a -terminator- gene to produce a toxin that prevents seed germination. But that+s an oversimplification. The system is actually quite complex. Besides the terminator gene, it includes components with the intimidating names of recombinase gene, blocking sequence, and transiently active promoter. All these links are essential if the terminator chain is to work. Just prior to bagging, seed with the necessary genetic components of the terminator team is treated with a chemical stimulant. After germination a series of actions, like dominoes, trigger the sterility process which culminates in the terminator gene and transiently active promoter coming together to produce the toxin. The promoter is active only during the later part of seed embryo development. So the toxin is produced after the seed has developed normally, even though the chemical stimulant was applied many months earlier. The seed is normal in every way except that it won+t germinate if planted. It will germinate, however, if the chemical stimulant was not applied before planting. The expression of other genes could potentially be controlled with this concept although sterilization is the only area D&PL and USDA are working on. Sterilizing self- pollinating crops is certainly the most lucrative trait for a seed company to develop. Seed companies are currently securing their biotechnology with hybridization and technology use agreements (TUAs). Otherwise, they would invest millions in new varieties only to have the seed collected in the fall and used the next spring. -We need a way for us to be rewarded for our technology while farmers gain the benefits of better, more diverse products through biotechnology,- says Larry Taylor, director of new product development for Monsanto Canada. Murray McLaughlin, president of Ontario Agri-Food Technologies (OAFT), says there is no market for the terminator gene by itself, so it must accompany an increase in yield or another benefit. -The companies are just trying to protect their return on investment,- he says. -Essentially, hybrid systems have been doing this all along.- McLaughlin believes terminator technology will first be incorporated into self-pollinating crops that do not easily hybridize. This genetic system is already being incorporated into tobacco. Biotechnology is often first tested on tobacco because it tends to be an easy plant to work with. According to D&PL, no plants with an entire TPS system have been field tested yet. D&PL is bringing all the components together in cotton. It is such a complex system, however, that terminator cotton seed will probably not be ready for commercial use until 2004. -We are close, but we haven+t got all the components working in cotton,- says Collins. -I can guarantee it will be 5 years minimum before any varieties (with the terminator gene) are even tested in Canada,- says Taylor, who worked on the list of varieties being tested by Monsanto. Add several years of data collection for the registration process and it could be 8 to 10 years before terminator varieties are sold commercially in Canada. Canola is not a likely candidate for early incorporation of terminator technology. Most canola growers in Canada are not willing to bin-run their seed, notes Taylor. Wheat, barley and soybean growers often use bin-run seed, however. D&PL does produce some soybean varieties for the southern states. -No TPS research is being conducted on soybeans yet but it is a target crop,- says Collins. Sometimes Ontario growers plant soybeans a little later in the spring, as a last resort. By using saved seed, they have less out-of-pocket expense for a crop that might not return much anyway. Susan Iler, research and technology manager with the Ontario Soybean Growers+ Board, says almost half the Ontario soybean acreage is planted with farmer-retained or bin-run seed. If seed companies control supply, she worries that in years when growers need to reseed, there will not be enough seed. -Currently, when there+s a wreck, growers have the option to go to the bin and use last year+s seed. I don+t think companies will overproduce enough seed for widespread reseeding.- The board is also concerned that all improved varieties will contain the terminator gene mechanism. -I would like to see some superior varieties free from these genes,- says Iler. Today, about 75% of wheat grown in Canada is from farm-saved or non-certified seed. Mark Jordan, a wheat biotechnologist at the Cereal Research Centre in Winnipeg, knows of no work currently being done to transform the terminator gene into wheat. Beyond the direct benefit to seed companies, terminator technology has some production advantages. Sterilized wheat, for example, won+t sprout in the head. Nor will it produce volunteer plants next year. Sterilizing seed also eliminates any possible outcrossing with wild species. Sterile, genetically modified seed can+t contaminate a gene pool. In the unlikely event of terminator genetics cross-pollinating with a plant of a related species, the seed produced wouldn+t germinate. So the lethal trait would be gone in one generation. With the potential of biotech cross-pollinating eliminated, international biosafety should not be a concern. Internationally, terminator technology has taken a public relations beating. In India, the press falsely tied Monsanto to an outbreak of fatalities caused by contaminated mustard oil this summer. The implication was that Monsanto had conspired to scare people off domestic mustard oil in efforts to build markets for oil from terminator-gene soybeans. The truth, however, was that an Indian crusher had blended in a cheaper mustard-like weed seed, causing the mustard oil to be toxic. Some biodiversity and farm groups worry seed companies will place this technology in all seed. Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) has launched an international campaign to stop negotiations between the USDA and D& PL. RAFI says terminator technology may be detrimental to underdeveloped countries where farm-saved seed produces most of the food. But D& PL insists their technology protection systems will be incorporated only into improved varieties with enough worthwhile new features for farmers to buy them every year. Farmers could still choose to save older varieties of wheat, soybean and rice to produce food. For Canadian farmers, this technology should give seed companies more resources to develop improved varieties. Most important, it gives the seed biotechnology industry a reason to put more effort into improving self-pollinating crops. This could be especially significant for Canada+s biggest crop, wheat, as it comes under growing acreage pressure from fast-moving competitors like canola. CG November 1998 Country Guide Magazine Seed and Biotech P.O. Box 6600 Winnipeg,, Manitoba R36 3A7 CANADA www.agcanada.com ---- For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the Ban-GEF list, send email to Ban-GEF@lists.txinfinet.com with HELP in the SUBJECT line. ---- ---- For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the Ban-GEF list, send email to Ban-GEF@lists.txinfinet.com with HELP in the SUBJECT line. ---- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= RFC822 Headers Follow =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- X-ENSMTPTo: ban-gef X-ENSMTPSubnet: txinfinet Received: from lists.greenbuilder.com (216.171.28.120) by mail4.greenbuilder.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:08:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 00:57:55 -0400 From: "Jon Campbell" To: "AQS" , Message-ID: <08e201be7fea$09b53d20$1201a8c0@jon586.cqs.com> X-Processed-By: HSKT 1.0 by Joshua Baer Subject: Re: B-GE: (Fwd) TPS -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 17:48:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA06778 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA29180 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA29112 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14131 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA18051 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:58:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199904082058.PAA18051@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:58:04 -0500 Subject: Fruit/vegie/grain compounds slow tumor cell growth X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 366 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Science Report Agricultural and Consumer Press Service College of Agricultural and Life Sciences 440 Henry Mall Research Division Madison WI 53706 (608) 262-1461 University of Wisconsin-Madison For Immediate Release For More Information: Charles Elson (608) 262-1332 elson@nutrisci.wisc.edu COMPOUNDS FROM FRUITS, VEGETABLES AND GRAINS SLOW THE GROWTH OF HUMAN TUMOR CELLS Evidence points to mechanism of how isoprenoids inhibit the multiplication of tumor cells and shunt cells to a natural death Researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison report in current issue of the Journal of Nutrition that small concentrations of two compounds from plants we eat suppress the growth of three kinds of human cancer cells in the laboratory. "Our studies showed that cancer cells were more sensitive to these compounds than normal cells and that the two compounds had a stronger effect when combined than we would have expected from the action of either alone," says Charles Elson, a nutritional scientist in the College of Agricultural and Life Sciences. "Our findings strengthen the idea that a diet rich in plants is beneficial because of the large array of plant compounds rather than the singular action of one kind of plant or one compound in plants." Elson suggests that the anticarcinogenic activity of these and similar plant compounds differs from the mechanism of other agents that block or suppress cancer cell growth. Unless controlled, cancer cells typically live and divide indefinitely. "The two compounds we studied suppress an enzyme," Elson says. "We think that this deprives tumor cells of chemical intermediates they need to multiply. The two compounds even work on human tumor cell lines that have mutations known to promote cancer." Studies consistently have shown that people who eat a diet high in fruits, vegetables and grains have a reduced risk of many types of cancer, including lung, alimentary tract, liver, pancreas, bladder, kidney, breast, endometrium, cervix and prostate. What is it about these foods that limits cancer? In a quest reminiscent of the search for vitamins begun in the last century, scientists are trying to identify the beneficial compounds in the fruits, vegetables and grains we eat that control tumor growth. Plants contain many beneficial compounds including fiber and micronutrients such as vitamins and their precursors. According to Elson, research initially focused on compounds such as vitamin A, vitamin E and folic acid. But clinical trials with them have been inconclusive at best, he says. Other scientists have been examining non-nutritive compounds in plants. Elson has been studying compounds he calls isoprenoids, a group that includes more than 22,000 compounds. All are derived from a parent compound called mevalonic acid. Limonene and lycopene are examples of isoprenoids that inhibit cancer. Many isoprenoids contribute to plants' distinctive flavors and fragrances, Elson says. In plants, isoprenoids help regulate germination, growth, flowering, and dormancy while attracting pollinators and protecting plants from insects and fungi. Elson began working with isoprenoids because some can reduce cholesterol levels in animals. Initially he hoped that depriving tumor cells of cholesterol would make them susceptible to cancer treatments. But Elson's early experiments showed he could not lower the cholesterol in tumor cells by feeding animals isoprenoids. However, he noticed that the isoprenoids slowed tumor growth. To screen isoprenoids for those with anticarcinogenic activity, Elson tests them against a cell line developed from an extremely aggressive form of mouse melanoma. He has identified many isoprenoids that can slow the growth of this cell line. The tricky part has been finding isoprenoids that suppress cancer growth at the low concentrations that might occur in diets. One such isoprenoid is gamma-tocotrienol, a compound found in cereal grains; it has a chemical structure related to vitamin E. In research published in 1997, Elson's group showed that substituting gamma-tocotrienol for vitamin E in a diet fed to mice slowed the growth of tumors transplanted to those mice. It was the first research demonstrating that an isoprenoid slowed cancer growth and prolonged the life of mice when fed at a level that an animal might consume. In the current paper, Elson and his graduate student, Huanbiao Mo, found that gamma-tocotrienol slowed the growth of cell lines from human leukemia and breast cancer. They also tested beta-ionone -- an isoprenoid found widely in fruits and vegetables. Beta-ionone is related structurally to beta carotene, the precursor of vitamin A. Elson and Mo showed that beta-ionone also suppressed the growth of cell lines for human leukemia and breast cancer, as well as human colon cancer. The human cell lines were even more sensitive to the action of the isoprenoids than the mouse melanoma cells, according to Elson. "We found that the human cancer cell lines were three times more sensitive to the isoprenoids than a non-cancerous cell line," Elson says. "This raises the issue of why cancer cells might be more sensitive to these plant compounds than non-cancerous cells." Mo and Elson found that the isoprenoids interfered with the maturation of lamin B, a material cells need when they divide. Many of the tumor cells treated with the isoprenoids accumulated in a pre-division phase while many others entered apoptosis, or programmed cell death. The researchers showed that the isoprenoids suppressed the activity of 3 hydroxy-3-methyglutaryl coenzyme A (HMG CoA) reductase, an enzyme critical for the maturation of lamin B as well as the synthesis of cholesterol. "We've known since the 1950s that tumor cells are more sensitive to reductions of HMG CoA reductase than healthy cells," Elson says. "When isoprenoids inhibit the activity of this enzyme they disrupt the processing of mevalonic acid via the mevalonate pathway. We think the tumor cells need chemical intermediates produced from the breakdown of mevalonic acid for lamin B maturation and that isoprenoids slow tumor growth by depriving tumor cells of those intermediates." The nutritional scientist does not anticipate that his research will lead to a single crucial isoprenoid or vegetable that people can eat to protect themselves from cancer. "These compounds act as a group to inhibit cancer growth," he says, "with some enhancing the effectiveness of others." Nor does Elson believe in an exclusively vegetarian diet. "I don't think that it's the presence of meat in diets that leads to health problems, but the lack of enough fruits, grains and vegetables. The people who eat a lot of animal products are often the same individuals that don't eat enough fruits and vegetables," he says. ### fruits,veggies&tumors 4/99 Writer: George Gallepp, (608) 262-3636 ggallepp@facstaff.wisc.edu <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 17:54:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA06865 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA04957 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:08:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA04944 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14312 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA18752 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:08:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199904082108.QAA18752@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:08:32 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) FW: "piggyBac" Gene X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 367 Howdy, all-- Lon fwd'd us all this item from the ARS News Service: > Agricultural Research Service scientists are using a special > genetic element from moths that "jump" between chromosomes to > genetically change insects. This special element could enable > scientists to create sterile insects for release into the wild to > disrupt mating of pest populations. It also could help the > scientists mark insect populations for better tracking and > monitoring. I have a couple questions: 1) Does anyone know more about this? 2) Has ARS ever heard of pollinators? 3) What would stop this gene from crossing into pollinators (say via sexual reproduction if the mechanism failed in some subset of the bioengineered species, but got passed along--a kind of insect Terminator Gene)? I am recently back from the Farmer Cooperative Genome Project meeting (Salem, Oregon, two weekends ago), and hope to report to you all on this next week, probably midweek. All I can say for now is--this micro, or more accurately nano or pico, focus of the gene jockeys reminds me of the pinhead angel focus of mediaeval philosophers. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 17:57:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA06902 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA04371 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:07:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA04314 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14248 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA18709 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:07:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199904082107.QAA18709@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:07:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Inducing Floration in Pineapple In-reply-to: <370C43D2.F839839A@acnet.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 368 Howdy, all-- Douglas Hinds wrote: > Pineapple tend to flower natuarally only during 3-4 months a year. > In order to grow and provide organic pineapple during a more > prolonged period, it is necessary to induce the plant to flower > using a non synthetic source of (I would think) ethylene, which > can be disolved in water using activated charcoal. Can anybody > provide any information or ideas regarding a practical solution to > this problem? (Producing certifiably organic fruit over a longer > time frame). Welllllll. Perhaps aligning our tastes and demands with what the plant can provide would be reasonable. And returning the pineapple to its status as a seasonal fruit. Am I correct in recalling that they come from clonal germplasm and cannot be bred, therefore cannot be bred for a longer season? Just my two cents. Perhaps not helpful...but I'm thinking a lot these days about the misspending of our agricultural brain capital, and the potential consequences of that. I.e., letting consumer demand and markets (another form of exclusive focus on profits) drive everything is a short-sighted strategy. And we in sustag and organic ag have fallen into that mentality...while ignoring some crucial infrastructure issues that need attention. More in upcoming weeks, paisans. It seems to me that one of the lessons of organic production should be to return consumers to some realism about where food comes from, rather than trying to provide them with all the luxuries to which they have become accustomed in the industrial food system. It would seem that what market is lost in year-round availability for a crop like pineapples could be at least partially recouped in higher prices when the fruit *is* available. I don't see how we in sustag/orgag can compete with the industrial food system in terms of titillating people's consumer desires, then providing products for that. But I do think that we can help give them what they really need and want. Like healthy food and reconnection with the seasons. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pressure? Pressure was when I was a shoeshine boy trying to make it to America. --Sammy Sosa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 18:21:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07279 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA21262 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:35:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA21201 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14845 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA19710 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:34:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199904082134.QAA19710@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:34:27 -0500 Subject: Early puberty/contaminants X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 369 Howdy, all-- Sometime ago I received a query regarding whether chemical contaminants can cause early puberty in children. I just ran across some more information on that. /E Magazine/ published an article on this in its Nov./Dec. 1997 issue. Here is the on-line version of the article: http://209.130.27.13/november-december_1997/1197gl_health.html See also the references to information resources at the end of the piece. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 20:25:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA10276 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA26874 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:20:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu (root@franc.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA26821 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:19:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Liebhardt (ars97.ucdavis.edu [169.237.82.97]) by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.9) with SMTP id QAA05960 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904082319.QAA05960@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: fzliebha@mailbox.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:20:52 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Bill Liebhardt Subject: cost of food Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 370 In the comparison of food we need to consider all the potential costs. In the milk comparison organic milk will not have rbgh whereas conventional milk will most likely have rbgh. Is there a difference. Monsanto and the FDA say no but the issue of bgh safety to animals and people is not settled. What are the risks? In Harvard based studies women with high levels of IGF-1 are seven times more likely to have breast cancer compared to normal levels of IGF-! and men are for times as likely to have prostrate cancer. The connection between these cancers and rbgh is that higher levels of rbgh produce higher levels of IGF-1 in milk. The rbgh/IGF1 issue is not a settled question at this time so the cost could be quite dear. So it depends on the risk you want to take and what you want to pay to eliminate that risk but you should consider all the costs. With full cost accounting much of what we consider cheap or inexpensive is not so inexpensive. There is absolutely no reason that anyone would want to have rbgh in their milk. It does not enhance quality and it comes with the above baggage. Bill Liebhardt To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 8 21:14:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA10976 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA06296 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:16:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA06194 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mindspring.com (pool-209-138-129-215.atln.grid.net [209.138.129.215]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA24049; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <370C9C84.A367533F@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:09:40 -0400 From: Keith Johnson Organization: The Permaculture Activist/Culture's Edge/Patterns for Abundance: http://metalab.unc.edu/pc-activist X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: earthspn@crocker.com, "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: starting a flock of chickens Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 371 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:31:23 -0400 From: Mark Subject: Starting a flock of chickens >OK, down to the grassroots here... >I am going to start a small flock of chickens this year in a spot that >currently has brambles, goldenrod and other assorted high growing stuff. I >want to prep the area and the chix I am getting are good foragers >(Dominiques). So, what is the best way to prep the spot? Brush hog it and >turn it under and cover crop for a couple months? Brush hog may be sufficient. You can scatter seed before or after you do this. Pelletizing your seed with mud can improve success. The plants that grow up again from roots will add to the feed supply and the mulch will create habitat for bugs and worms (yum, yum). >What is a good crop to sow to give the birds good forage and improve the soil >(eventually for a garden)? Sow a mix of things. Try winter peas, favas, clovers, grains, radishes and mustards, chickweed, plantain (plantago spp.), lambsquarter, pigweed, chicory, etc. and on the edges, where the fence will go, plant comfrey (just don't till it....unless you really LOVE comfrey) or other perennial greens. Keith Johnson Patterns for Abundance / The Permaculture Activist Magazine Thanks, Mark To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 02:05:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA15533 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA12536 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:05:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA12496 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA20541 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([148.233.240.81]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:04:55 -0500 Message-ID: <370D9846.6ACF71EA@acnet.net> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 00:03:50 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Inducing Floration in Pineapple References: <199904082107.QAA18709@aae.wisc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 372 Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison wrote: > It would seem that what market is lost in year-round availability > for a crop like pineapples could be at least partially recouped in > higher prices when the fruit *is* available. Unfortunately, the opposite is true. When fruit from naturally induced flowers is available, the price has dropped due to the large supply and what you wind up with is a lot of canned and frozen pineapple. There's too much out there for the fresh market to absorb it. On the other hand, the quality of that fruit is much higher, without having required the quantities of inputs that induced flowering fruit does to produce a decent if not quite equal product. Another problem is that the major growing area is this country produces little else in the way of cash crops - meaning that while admittedly there's too much mono-cropping being done, there's not much else that will grow and do well there that's exportable. Maybe the real problem is that there are too many people in the world and they're in the wrong places. How about making the best of what we've got, while we're working on other and more ideal but loooooong term "solutions". (Do you think I too could get a paying job philosophizing)? I happen to agree but..... maybe man's role is to extend natural conditions just a little bit further (irrigate land, etc.), There are admittedly trade offs though. What is it that triggers flowering? I'm told it's short days. Could it be a set of conditions that tells the plant that what it needs is now in place? (if so, that may be recreateable, with a little help from us, their friends). (nothing follows) > Howdy, all-- > > Douglas Hinds wrote: > > > Pineapple tend to flower natuarally only during 3-4 months a year. > > In order to grow and provide organic pineapple during a more > > prolonged period, it is necessary to induce the plant to flower > > using a non synthetic source of (I would think) ethylene, which > > can be disolved in water using activated charcoal. Can anybody > > provide any information or ideas regarding a practical solution to > > this problem? (Producing certifiably organic fruit over a longer > > time frame). > > Welllllll. Perhaps aligning our tastes and demands with what the > plant can provide would be reasonable. And returning the pineapple to > its status as a seasonal fruit. Am I correct in recalling that they > come from clonal germplasm and cannot be bred, therefore cannot be > bred for a longer season? > > Just my two cents. Perhaps not helpful...but I'm thinking a lot these > days about the misspending of our agricultural brain capital, and the > potential consequences of that. > > I.e., letting consumer demand and markets (another form of exclusive > focus on profits) drive everything is a short-sighted strategy. And > we in sustag and organic ag have fallen into that mentality...while > ignoring some crucial infrastructure issues that need attention. > More in upcoming weeks, paisans. > > It seems to me that one of the lessons of organic production should > be to return consumers to some realism about where food comes from, > rather than trying to provide them with all the luxuries to which > they have become accustomed in the industrial food system. > > It would seem that what market is lost in year-round availability > for a crop like pineapples could be at least partially recouped in > higher prices when the fruit *is* available. I don't see how we in > sustag/orgag can compete with the industrial food system in terms of > titillating people's consumer desires, then providing products for > that. But I do think that we can help give them what they really need > and want. Like healthy food and reconnection with the seasons. > > peace > misha > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems > UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences > Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 > http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Pressure? Pressure was when I was a shoeshine boy > trying to make it to America. --Sammy Sosa > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address) Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412 6308 (direct) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, dhinds@ucol.mx, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 02:19:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA15727 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA21555 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:22:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA21550 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.74.74.121]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990409052122.CIEG21216@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:21:22 +0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990408230348.23370d36@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: JDEMING@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: JOYCE DEMING Subject: RE: New Papers on the Web -- John Ikerd Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:21:22 +0000 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 373 At the risk of sounding like an Ikerd groupie, let me just say I've visited the web site and read the papers, and like everything else he's written, they are wonderful tributes to and arguments for small farms and sustainable agriculture. But, even better than just reading the papers, by hopping over to the Resource Express website (www.rexp.com), and you can order a cassette tape of at least two of his presentations (Family Farms: Their Role in Our Future, and Reclaming the Sacred in Food and Farming). His eloquent and evangelistic style make for truly inspirational listening. And, Resource Express has tapes of presentations made by other distinguished members of this list including E. Ann Clark, Greg Gunthorp and Bill Duesing, just to name a few. The prices for the cassettes are quite reasonable. Disclaimer: I don't work for or get kickbacks from Resource Express. ;-) I've just found them to be a good company to do business with. Joyce Midlife Crisis Enterprises Golden, Colorado To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 02:50:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA16038 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA09898 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:58:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA09886 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-5-32.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.32]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA19521; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:35:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199904090535.AAA19521@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: , "Mark" Subject: Re: Starting a flock of chickens Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:37:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 374 When are you getting your chicks? And are they going to end up being egg layers? How many acres and how many chicks? 400/acre is a decent stocking density in my area on spring growth. But of course you are going to have to be a lot lower stocking density on an unestablished pasture unless you use an annual species such as rape, ryegrass, oats, peas, or berseem clover. I've never put small chickens on brassica pastures and doubt if it could be done very successfully but laying hens like rape and gets the darkest yolks you will have ever seen. I would stick with mainly ladino clover if you are going to use it for pasture for a couple of years before using it for garden. I have heard a lot of good things about berseem clover for annual pastures. Oats, ryegrass, rape, and clover blend work good in northern Indiana. Good luck, Greg Gunthorp ---------- > From: Mark > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Starting a flock of chickens > Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:31 AM > > OK, down to the grassroots here... > > I am going to start a small flock of chickens this year in a spot that > currently has brambles, goldenrod and other assorted high growing stuff. I > want to prep the area and the chix I am getting are good foragers > (Dominiques). So, what is the best way to prep the spot? Brush hog it and > turn it under and cover crop for a couple months? What is a good crop to > sow to give the birds good forage and improve the soil (eventually for a > garden)? > > Thanks, > > Mark > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 10:06:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20625 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00130 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:11:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29989 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27556 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3) id JAA08453; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;370DFBE0.CDD8.13B8.000] Content-Identifier: Re: Inducing Flo UA-Content-Id: Re: Inducing Flo Autoforwarded: FALSE X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 8:50:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 8:50:00 -0400 From: Grace J Gershuny Subject: Re: Inducing Floration in Pineapple -Reply To: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested), sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <370DFBE0.CDD8.13B8.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-p2)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 375 Just another affirmation that Misha has, once again, put her finger on precisely the issue that has already sown a lot of confusion in the public debate about organics. Just my $.02 from a much more expensive book I have brewing ... Grace Gershuny USDA/National Organic Program staff >>> owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu@i 04/08/99 05:07pm >>> [from comments about extending the (organic) pineapple season] ...but I'm thinking a lot these days about the misspending of our agricultural brain capital, and the potential consequences of that. I.e., letting consumer demand and markets (another form of exclusive focus on profits) drive everything is a short-sighted strategy. And we in sustag and organic ag have fallen into that mentality...while ignoring some crucial infrastructure issues that need attention. More in upcoming weeks, paisans. It seems to me that one of the lessons of organic production should be to return consumers to some realism about where food comes from, rather than trying to provide them with all the luxuries to which they have become accustomed in the industrial food system. It would seem that what market is lost in year-round availability for a crop like pineapples could be at least partially recouped in higher prices when the fruit *is* available. I don't see how we in sustag/orgag can compete with the industrial food system in terms of titillating people's consumer desires, then providing products for that. But I do think that we can help give them what they really need and want. Like healthy food and reconnection with the seasons. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pressure? Pressure was when I was a shoeshine boy trying to make it to America. --Sammy Sosa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 12:12:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23240 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA28474 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:27:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28449 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool024-max11.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.3.174]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA28055; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990408192713.00838660@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:27:13 -0700 To: Phil Gillman , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: Re: farmers markets In-Reply-To: <370D0716.FF8D794D@cafarmersmarkets.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA28452 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 376 tHANKS Phil, This is great. I will try and get down there. There's a lot of stuff happening sustainability-wise in the Southland this weekend. I'll also post your note on two of my discussion lists. Fred At 12:44 PM 4/8/99 -0700, Phil Gillman wrote: >Come Check out our annual meeting > >Southland Farmers Market Association would like to invite you to our >annual meeting on Sunday April 11th from 2:30 5:30 pm. The meeting >will be held at the Beverly Hills Community Center Auditorium in Roxbury >Park, following the Beverly Hills Farmers Market. Stan Crawford, Farmer >and Author from Santa Fe, New Mexico is schedule to speak about farming >and direct marketing, and refreshments will be available to all. Feel >free to come early and explore the Beverly Hills Farmers Market Which >is open from 9 am to 1 pm > >Please RSVP to Phil Gillman at 213.244.9190 x15 >OR email pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org for more information > >The market and meeting are located at: > >Roxbury Park, >471 S. Roxbury >Beverly Hills, CA >Directions and Maps are available > > >Thank You, > > > > >Phil Gillman >Southland Farmers Market Association >1308 Factory Place Box 68 Apt 3J >Los Angeles, CA 90013 >213.244.9190 >213.244.9180 fax >pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org > > > > FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 13:26:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24788 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12240 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:50:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA12146 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.6) with ESMTP id S.0000113735 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:46:48 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), mail@icsenglish.com Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:47:10 GMT Subject: REFERENCE: GLYPHOSATE DANGERS: Message-ID: <80346750.19026789@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 377 We've had requests for further information on the source for a summary (by gmacpherson@farmline.com) of an article in the current New Scientist which ngin recently forwarded on glyphosate and other agrochemical dangers. The summary headings were: CANCER THREAT FROM GLYPHOSATE and PESTICIDE RAIN The New Scientist article was by Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie, as was mentioned. Here's the full reference: New Scientist vol:162, no. 2180, 3rd April 1999, P:23, Title: It's raining pesticides The New Scientist article also contains a reference to Swedish work showing increased cancer cases linked to agrochemical exposure published in: Cancer, Vol:85, P: 1353 Hope this helps. NORFOLK GENETIC INFORMATION NETWORK (ngin): http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/ ---- For instructions on joining, leaving, or otherwise using the Ban-GEF list, send email to Ban-GEF@lists.txinfinet.com with HELP in the SUBJECT line. ---- Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:41:35 +0000 From: Jon To: Ban-GEF@lists.greenbuilder.com Subject: B-GE: GLYPHOSATE DANGERS: REFERENCE -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 14:57:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26795 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA12114 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:05:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12099 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00B140B0@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:05:03 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 9 Apr 99 14:05:11 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 9 Apr 99 14:04:45 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:04:37 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Popsicles, again In-reply-to: <199904081246.IAA00381@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <2244BA32AC2@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 378 > Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 23:50:45 +0100 > From: "Bluestem Associates" > Subject: Popsicles, again > > Organic orange versus Popsicle is a valid comparison, because what you > are buying is an orange snack for your kid (or yourself). > > Equal weight, equal price. One is nourishing food, the other, if > concentrated, could be finger paint. The organic orange is a much > better value, unless you want a dual-purpose product, in which case buy > the Popsicle. So what happens when I compare a fresh orange with an organic orange-juice popsicle? Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 16:38:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA29450 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA20784 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:56:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu (mhub1.tc.umn.edu [160.94.5.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA20706 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu with ESMTP for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:56:21 -0500 Received: from [207.58.17.209] by gold.tc.umn.edu for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:56:19 -0500 From: "Brian DeVore" Reply-To: "Brian DeVore" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: AG CONSOLIDATION TOWN MEETING Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b8 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:56:21 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 379 CONTACT: Mark Schultz, 612-823-5221; schul072@gold.tc.umn.edu APRIL 18 TOWN MEETING TO DISCUSS CONCENTRATION IN AGRICULTURE 4/9/99 SOUTH SAINT PAUL, Minn. Consolidation in agriculture is occurring at levels never seen before in our history, say agricultural economists and rural sociologists. The increasing power of multinational corporations to control farmers prices and market access means independent Midwestern producers are being treated unfairly. This is being done through price manipulation and price discrimination, said Mark Schultz, Policy Program Director for the Land Stewardship Project. Farmers are being deliberately short-changed, literally, he said. The fact is, there are federal laws on the books to address the corporations competition-killing practices. However, the federal government has failed to enforce the law. We need to change that situation. On Sunday, April 18, farmers from throughout the Upper Midwest will have an opportunity to pressure federal officials into enforcing antitrust laws and holding the Cargills, Smithfields and ConAgras of the world accountable. The Town Meeting on Concentration and Monopoly in Agriculture will begin at 1 p.m. at the Best Western Drovers Inn, 701 South Concord Street, South Saint Paul, Minn. (next to the Saint Paul Stockyards). For more information, call the Land Stewardship Project, 651-653-0618. The Drovers Inns number is 651-455-3600. The meeting will feature Joel Klein, Assistant U.S. Attorney General, Antitrust Division, and Michael Dunn, Assistant Secretary, USDA Marketing and Regulatory Programs, Packers & Stockyards Programs. State lawmakers from five states, working with U.S. Senator Paul Wellstone of Minnesota, provided the impetus for the meeting. The state legislators involved in this special meeting include: Ted Winter (Minn.), Jack Kibbie (Iowa), Frank Klocek (S. Dak.), Cap Dierks (Neb.) and Bruce Larkin (Kan.). Also planning to participate are U.S. Senators Kent Conrad (N. Dak.), Tom Daschle (S. Dak.), Byron Dorgan (N. Dak.), Charles Grassley (Iowa), Tom Harkin (Iowa) and Tim Johnson (S. Dak.) Farmers will have an opportunity to discuss such issues as: The need for antitrust action in agriculture, with the Cargill acquisition of Continental Grain serving as a case in point. The need for mandatory price reporting and restriction of the packers ownership and control of marketed livestock. Excessive corporate profits during the long period of terribly low farm prices for a wide range of commodities, including corn, soybeans, hogs, cattle, wheat and others. This is an excellent opportunity for farmers to make their voices heard, said Schultz. Weve got to make sure these public servants get the message that they had better start doing their job. ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 22:15:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00800 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA08660 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:06:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA08526 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp43-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.43]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA15509 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:06:20 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: It's raining pesticides (http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19990403/newsstory12.h Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:16:57 +1000 Message-ID: <000d01be82ef$d3a122e0$2b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE8343.A54D32E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 380 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE8343.A54D32E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This. below, is the New Scientist text. Search for 'glyphosate at the New Scientist search engine http://www.newscientist.com/Architext/AT-whole_sitequery.html turns up lots more Dennis Argall ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- HOME CONTENTS JOBS [Archive: 3 April 1999] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- It's raining pesticides Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie RAIN IS NOT what it used to be. A new study reveals that much of the precipitation in Europe contains such high levels of dissolved pesticides that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking water. Studies in Switzerland have found that rain is laced with toxic levels of atrazine, alachlor and other commonly used crop sprays. "Drinking water standards are regularly exceeded in rain," says Stephan Mller, a chemist at the Swiss Federal Institute for Environmental Science and Technology in Dbendorf. The chemicals appear to have evaporated from fields and become part of the clouds. Both the European Union and Switzerland have set a limit of 100 nanograms for any particular pesticide in a litre of drinking water. But, especially in the first minutes of a heavy storm, rain can contain much more than that. In a study to be published by Mller and his colleague Thomas Bucheli in Analytical Chemistry this summer, one sample of rainwater contained almost 4000 nanograms per litre of 2,4-dinitrophenol, a widely used pesticide. Previously, the authors had shown that in rain samples taken from 41 storms, nine contained more than 100 nanograms of atrazine per litre, one of them around 900 nanograms. In the latest study, the highest concentrations of pesticides turned up in the first rain after a long dry spell, particularly when local fields had recently been sprayed. Until now, scientists had assumed that the pesticides only infiltrated groundwater directly from fields. Mller warns that the growing practice of using rainwater that falls onto roofs to recharge underground water may be adding to the danger. This water often contains dissolved herbicides that had been added to roofing materials, such as bitumen sheets, to prevent vegetation growing. He suggests that the first flush of rains should be diverted into sewers to minimise the pollution of drinking water, which is not usually treated to remove these herbicides and pesticides. Meanwhile, Swedish researchers have linked pesticides to one of the most rapidly increasing cancers in the Western world. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which has risen by 73 per cent in the US since 1973, is probably caused by several commonly used crop sprays, say the scientists. Lennart Hardell of Orebro Medical Centre and Mikael Eriksson of Lund University Hospital found Swedish sufferers of the disease were 2.7 times more likely to have been exposed to MCPA, a widely used weedkiller, than healthy people (Cancer, vol 85 p 1353). MCPA, which is used on grain crops, is sold as Target by the Swiss firm Novartis. In addition, patients were 3.7 times more likely to have been exposed to a range of fungicides, an association not previously reported. The patients were also 2.3 times more likely to have had contact with glyphosate, the most commonly used herbicide in Sweden. Use of this chemical, sold as Round-Up by the US firm Monsanto, is expected to rocket with the introduction of crops, such as Roundup-Ready soya beans, that are genetically modified to resist glyphosate. The researchers suggest that the chemicals have suppressed the patients' immunity, allowing viruses such as Epstein-Barr to trigger cancer. From New Scientist, 3 April 1999 New Scientist Home: current week _________________________ New Scientist Contents: 3 April 1999 Editorial: 3 April News: 3 April Features: April Review: 3 April Forum: 3 April Letters: 3 April Feedback: 3 April The Last Word: 3 April _________________________ Back Issues _________________________ Bizarre Science _________________________ Planet Student _________________________ Search the site _________________________ Subscribe to New Scientist Copyright New Scientist, RBI Limited 1999 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE8343.A54D32E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New Scientist Planet Science: It's = raining pesticides

    This. below, is the New Scientist text.
     
    Search for 'glyphosate at the New Scientist search engine=20
    ht= tp://www.newscientist.com/Architext/AT-whole_sitequery.html
    turns up lots more
     
    Dennis Argall
     

    HOME · CONTENTS = · JOBS

    [Archive: 3 April 1999]


    3DNews 
    
    

    It's raining pesticides

    Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie

    RAIN IS NOT what it used to be. A new study reveals that much of=20 the precipitation in Europe contains such high levels of = dissolved=20 pesticides that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking = water.=20

    Studies in Switzerland have found that rain is laced = with=20 toxic levels of atrazine, alachlor and other commonly used = crop=20 sprays. "Drinking water standards are regularly = exceeded in=20 rain," says Stephan Müller, a chemist at the Swiss = Federal=20 Institute for Environmental Science and Technology in=20 Dübendorf. The chemicals appear to have evaporated from = fields=20 and become part of the clouds.

    Both the = European=20 Union and Switzerland have set a limit of 100 nanograms for = any=20 particular pesticide in a litre of drinking water. But, = especially=20 in the first minutes of a heavy storm, rain can contain much = more=20 than that.

    In a study to be published by Müller = and his=20 colleague Thomas Bucheli in Analytical Chemistry this = summer,=20 one sample of rainwater contained almost 4000 nanograms per = litre of=20 2,4-dinitrophenol, a widely used pesticide. Previously, the = authors=20 had shown that in rain samples taken from 41 storms, nine = contained=20 more than 100 nanograms of atrazine per litre, one of them = around=20 900 nanograms.

    In the latest study, the highest=20 concentrations of pesticides turned up in the first rain = after a=20 long dry spell, particularly when local fields had recently = been=20 sprayed. Until now, scientists had assumed that the = pesticides only=20 infiltrated groundwater directly from fields. =

    Müller=20 warns that the growing practice of using rainwater that = falls onto=20 roofs to recharge underground water may be adding to the = danger.=20 This water often contains dissolved herbicides that had been = added=20 to roofing materials, such as bitumen sheets, to prevent = vegetation=20 growing. He suggests that the first flush of rains should be = diverted into sewers to minimise the pollution of drinking = water,=20 which is not usually treated to remove these herbicides and=20 pesticides.

    Meanwhile, Swedish researchers have = linked=20 pesticides to one of the most rapidly increasing cancers in = the=20 Western world. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which has risen by 73 = per=20 cent in the US since 1973, is probably caused by several = commonly=20 used crop sprays, say the scientists.

    Lennart = Hardell of=20 Orebro Medical Centre and Mikael Eriksson of Lund University = Hospital found Swedish sufferers of the disease were 2.7 = times more=20 likely to have been exposed to MCPA, a widely used = weedkiller, than=20 healthy people (Cancer, vol 85 p 1353).

    MCPA, = which=20 is used on grain crops, is sold as Target by the Swiss firm=20 Novartis. In addition, patients were 3.7 times more likely = to have=20 been exposed to a range of fungicides, an association not = previously=20 reported.

    The patients were also 2.3 times more = likely to=20 have had contact with glyphosate, the most commonly used = herbicide=20 in Sweden. Use of this chemical, sold as Round-Up by the US = firm=20 Monsanto, is expected to rocket with the introduction of = crops, such=20 as Roundup-Ready soya beans, that are genetically modified = to resist=20 glyphosate. The researchers suggest that the chemicals have=20 suppressed the patients' immunity, allowing viruses such as=20 Epstein-Barr to trigger cancer.

    From New Scientist, 3 = April=20 = 1999

    
    

     

    © Copyright = New Scientist,=20 RBI Limited 1999

    ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE8343.A54D32E0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 22:15:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00828 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA18947 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:22:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA18937 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp43-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.43]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16718 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:22:21 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: starting a flock of chickens Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:32:59 +1000 Message-ID: <001201be82f2$10f15320$2b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <370C9C84.A367533F@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 381 >What is a good crop to sow to give the birds good forage and improve the soil >(eventually for a garden)? I find that it's useful to provide, especially to young birds needing high protein, what is sold here as 'pigeon mix', which should have about 27% protein, double that of wheat or corn, etc. (But be careful with high protein for mature birds - Isa Brown hens, for example, respond to high protein with dangerously [for the mother] large eggs. If you toss the pigeon mix on the ground, the chooks select what they want, leaving or losing a mixture, but especially larger seeds, e.g. dun peas, which then can sprout. You can get them a nice sprouted crop if you withhold them from the area in wet weather for a week, or less. We also give ours some of the rice/veg/mince mix we give the dog. We also keep our black plastic compost bin in the chook run, which means one trip with two buckets from the kitchen - chook scraps and compost - and with two compost bins, you wait until the second is almost full, then give the birds the contents of the first, over a few days. they will do a great job of spreading and integrating the compost, in their pursuit of worms and other macrobiota in the compost. You can work that kind of pattern into a rotating system of gardens/chook runs. Beware of having too much fresh manure in the garden. If there seems a lot, adjust your rotation, or remove fresh droppings (also those from hen house) to the compost, rather than directly to the garden. I would not worry too much about removing plants where the birds are going to go. They will dig into most roots, and insects will visit those weeds, etc left standing and the birds will have something to jump for. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 22:15:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00861 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA26908 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:14:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA26898 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 19:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.50] [199.175.106.55] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m10VkT8-000WSpC for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:13:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:14:07 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: seasonal fruits/vegetables Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 382 Misha, Yes, yes, seasonality is another joy and pleasure that industrial agriculture has stolen from us. Would seet corn be the thrill it is if we could eat it year around? Oh, don't tell me about those things that look like ears of sweet corn which appear in supermarket produce counters during the winter months, the plastic bag you take them home in has more flavour. A week ago the apples I stored from our orchard ran out, but to the end they were juicy and flavourful. So I gritted my teeth and bought a few B.C. grown apples. They looked very good. I peeled one and started cutting it up in my morning fruit salad. I popped the last piece in my mouth....I might as well have bitten into a piece of Douglas fir for all the flavour. It was solid but bone dry. Were these apples this poor when first picked? Whatever it is that's the last I'll buy, we'll stick to the dried apples, frozen apple juice, and apple sauce until our trees once again bring us the joys of seasonal fresh fruit. The first of this year's crop of B.C. Hothouse tomatoes (grown without pesticides) are now in the stores and they taste like tomatoes, not like those round red things from Florida. Now, let's admit it, they don't taste like fresh fruit just picked from the vine on a sunny August day but they are a nice start. Here on southern Vancouver Island the stinging nettles are just about ready to be picked for an early spring feed of fresh greens. Their flavour must be enhanced by my watching them slowly grow in cool air in the swampy places in the forest. Within the next few days we will be enjoying one of natures delights and hope many of you have the chance to do the same. Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 9 22:35:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01918 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA07440 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:50:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA07331 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:50:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA10479 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp43-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.43]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA18607; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:50:23 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" , Subject: RE: Early puberty/contaminants Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:01:00 +1000 Message-ID: <001401be82f5$fb272e80$2b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199904082134.QAA19710@aae.wisc.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 383 Michele wrote: >Sometime ago I received a query regarding whether chemical contaminants can cause early puberty in children. Bear with me two summary paragraphs before sharply-agriculture-relevant comment. The thyroid-hormonal health of the mother, and premature birth can also be factors, indicating that the problems created by endocrine disruption can have a complex history and be long lived. A girl with early puberty is more likely to have her thymus weakened (down-regulating thyroid) by high estrogen levels, with potential for next generation consequences again. I think part of the problem in pinning down the guilt of the so-called endocrine disrupting chemicals is that they are not alone in guilt. Some commonplace conventionally wise diet items, notably the unsaturated oils, contribute to endocrine disruption, in my view. This kind of potential cause of a problem has an impact on thinking about healthy agriculture. We may strive as we might to produce an organic oil seed crop, but this will not alter the fact that the product is better as a paint thinner or food for creatures with different stomachs than as human food. These thoughts can be supported by citations, on request. Dennis Argall To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Apr 10 12:52:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12115 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13409 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:57:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13402 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:57:20 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id 7DYUa15519 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62c26814.2440ceb1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:56:33 EDT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #955 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Reply-To: CTBull@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA13403 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 384 Would you please post this anouncement to help our organic research program? United States Department of Agriculture Agricultural Research Service U. S. Agricultural Research Station, Salinas CA Subject: Salinas Organic Research Liason Committee The USDA/ARS is making a commitment to conducting research on organic cropping systems and is starting organic research in Salinas, California. The Salinas location is recruiting organic farmers to serve on the Salinas Organic Research Liason Committee. The Liason committees role is to provide recommendations for the establishment of good organic management practices for research plots. For an application please contact Ms. Elsa Chavez (831)755-2800 or for more information contact Dr. Carolee Bull (831)755-2889. Thank you Carolee Bull USDA/ARS Salinas CA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 11 01:56:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA02912 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA02054 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:03:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA02008 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-14.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.62]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA22844; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:40:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199904110540.AAA22844@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Brian DeVore" , Subject: Re: AG CONSOLIDATION TOWN MEETING Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:59:55 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 385 Is the meeting going to serve any worthwhile purpose? I probably shouldn't be asking that question as I am one of the farmers on the panel. Anybody have any concerns they would like shared? I think I am going to try to contain my thoughts to price discrimination to small producers because of these unfounded assumptions that bigger is better and then I am going to tell them that our own governments policies have created this fiasco. The regulatory hoops that farmers have to jump through to be a contrary force to this consolidation and monopolistic tendencies are only there to hinder competition--not for food safety as they would like everyone to believe. It is time to change both fronts. Dairy farms around here that milk over 330 average producing cows get about a $3/cwt premium. I don't understand how it is happening even in the co-op system. That is a whopping percentage difference in milk prices. Can it really be $3/cwt cheaper to purchase milk from large(, no huge,) dairies? Alleged % differences in prices on hogs and cattle from small producers to large are very similar in percentages. Without mandatory price reporting we don't even really know. I know GIPSA's stance has always been it is an acceptable business practice in the US to pay large businesses more. Then what is the use of having Section 202 of the Packer and Stockyard's act? Please pass along any suggestions. Look forward to seeing some of you there. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com ---------- > From: Brian DeVore > To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: AG CONSOLIDATION TOWN MEETING > Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 2:56 PM > > > > > > > > > > CONTACT: Mark Schultz, 612-823-5221; schul072@gold.tc.umn.edu > > > > APRIL 18 TOWN MEETING TO DISCUSS CONCENTRATION IN AGRICULTURE > > > > > 4/9/99 > > > SOUTH SAINT PAUL, Minn. Consolidation in agriculture is occurring at levels > never seen before in our history, say agricultural economists and rural > sociologists. The increasing power of multinational corporations to control > farmers prices and market access means independent Midwestern producers are > being treated unfairly. > > > This is being done through price manipulation and price discrimination, said > Mark Schultz, Policy Program Director for the Land Stewardship Project. > > > Farmers are being deliberately short-changed, literally, he said. The fact > is, there are federal laws on the books to address the corporations > competition-killing practices. However, the federal government has failed to > enforce the law. We need to change that situation. > > > On Sunday, April 18, farmers from throughout the Upper Midwest will have an > opportunity to pressure federal officials into enforcing antitrust laws and > holding the Cargills, Smithfields and ConAgras of the world accountable. > > > The Town Meeting on Concentration and Monopoly in Agriculture will begin at 1 > p.m. at the Best Western Drovers Inn, 701 South Concord Street, South Saint > Paul, Minn. (next to the Saint Paul Stockyards). For more information, call the > Land Stewardship Project, 651-653-0618. The Drovers Inns number is > 651-455-3600. > > > The meeting will feature Joel Klein, Assistant U.S. Attorney General, Antitrust > Division, and Michael Dunn, Assistant Secretary, USDA Marketing and Regulatory > Programs, Packers & Stockyards Programs. > > > State lawmakers from five states, working with U.S. Senator Paul Wellstone of > Minnesota, provided the impetus for the meeting. The state legislators involved > in this special meeting include: Ted Winter (Minn.), Jack Kibbie (Iowa), Frank > Klocek (S. Dak.), Cap Dierks (Neb.) and Bruce Larkin (Kan.). Also planning to > participate are U.S. Senators Kent Conrad (N. Dak.), Tom Daschle (S. Dak.), > Byron Dorgan (N. Dak.), Charles Grassley (Iowa), Tom Harkin (Iowa) and Tim > Johnson (S. Dak.) > > > Farmers will have an opportunity to discuss such issues as: > > > The need for antitrust action in agriculture, with the Cargill acquisition of > Continental Grain serving as a case in point. > The need for mandatory price reporting and restriction of the packers > ownership and control of marketed livestock. > Excessive corporate profits during the long period of terribly low farm prices > for a wide range of commodities, including corn, soybeans, hogs, cattle, wheat > and others. > > > > This is an excellent opportunity for farmers to make their voices heard, said > Schultz. Weve got to make sure these public servants get the message that they > had better start doing their job. > > > ### > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 11 02:22:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA03052 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 02:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA19198 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:37:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA19181 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA45484; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:36:54 -0600 Received: from edandsue (dialup0021.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.52.120]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA282466; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:36:53 -0600 Message-ID: <002f01be83d4$1a1d8440$78345281@edandsue.colostate.edu> From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Cc: "Caroline Heberton" , "Jan Van Schlifgaarde" , "Lee Shannon" Subject: Intership: Biodymanic CSA--Loveland Colorado Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:30:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE83A1.CEB9A9C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 386 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE83A1.CEB9A9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New farming community forming. =20 Cresset Farm is a biodynamic farm which will supply share holders from = Denver to Ft Collins and Loveland at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. = The 1999 season will be its first. The farm incorporates gardens, = grains, forage, and mixed livestock on 120 irrigated acres. The farmers, Lawrence and Ursula Holmes, have over twenty years = experience on a biodynamic community farm in Germany. =20 Larry and Ursula are looking for persons with pioneering spirit, some = technical and/or mechanical skills, and a willingness to work hard.=20 Contact Larry or Ursula by phone at:=20 970-278-0499 Their mailing address is: 503 South County Line Rd Loveland, CO 80537 Do not try to contact them through my e-mail address because I will be = out of town until April 30. Ed Sparling 1306 Whedbee St Ft Collins, CO 80524 970-407-1373 ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE83A1.CEB9A9C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    New farming community forming.  =
     
    Cresset Farm is a biodynamic farm = which will=20 supply share holders from Denver to Ft Collins and Loveland at the foot = of the=20 Rocky Mountains.  The 1999 season will be its = first.  The farm incorporates gardens, grains, forage, and mixed = livestock=20 on 120 irrigated acres.
     
    The farmers, Lawrence and Ursula Holmes, have over = twenty=20 years experience on a biodynamic community farm in Germany.  =
     
    Larry and Ursula are looking for persons with = pioneering=20 spirit, some technical and/or mechanical skills, and a willingness to = work hard.=20
     
    Contact Larry or Ursula by phone at: =
    970-278-0499
    Their mailing = address=20 is:
     
    503 South County Line Rd
    Loveland, CO   80537
     
    Do not try to contact them through = my e-mail=20 address because I will be out of town until April 30.
     
     
    Ed Sparling
    1306 Whedbee St
    Ft Collins, = CO =20 80524
    970-407-1373
    ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BE83A1.CEB9A9C0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 11 11:36:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06340 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08461 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:45:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from garnet.sover.net (garnet.sover.net [209.198.87.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08453 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (arc0a322.bf.sover.net [209.198.83.230]) by garnet.sover.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA15474 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) oemcomputer from arc0a322.bf.sover.net [209.198.83.230] 209.198.83.230 Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000201be842a$596c1160$e653c6d1@oemcomputer> Reply-To: "farm connection" From: "farm connection" To: "sanet" Subject: Re: rBGH test Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:47:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 387 Sometime in 1996 we were told that a professor at Cornel had developed a test for the recombinant bovine growth hormone produced by Monsanto. This test required only a small amount of milk and what showed up was an extra methionine molecule not present in natural growth hormone. Does anyone know what became of this test or the research that went into it? Karen To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 11 18:48:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11594 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA25717 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:07:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from thehub.knight-hub.com (root@thehub.knight-hub.com [205.177.16.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25707 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default (dialas-195.knight-hub.com [205.252.164.195]) by thehub.knight-hub.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA05293; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:07:38 -0400 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:07:38 -0400 Message-Id: <199904112207.SAA05293@thehub.knight-hub.com> X-Sender: auburn@knight-hub.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "valerie frances" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Walt and Jill Auburn Subject: Re: Request for Citations Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 388 At 11:45 AM 1/20/99 -0500, valerie frances wrote: >Greetings, > >I'm writing a report on "Pesticide Tax Policy". Many pesticide proponents, of course, argue that we need pesticides if we ever hope to resolve issues of food security. I feel differently, but need citable papers, studies, books, etc addressing the profitability and productivity of organic versus conventional farming. Suggestions are appreciated! > >Valerie Frances >Friends of the Earth >Ph: (202) 783-7400 (x.258) Fx: 783-0444 >1025 Vermont Ave., NW 3rd Floor >Washington, DC 20005 Hi, Valerie. Obviously I'm behind on my sanet-mg reading, am trying to catch up this weekend. Great to hear that you're working with FOE! Walt ended up working for Americorps-NCCC (very similar to the work he was doing in CA, despite his efforts to branch out) and we've just contracted to buy a house in Somerset, MD (near the Friendship Heights metro station). There's a lot going on at work revolving around earth day and an info campaign re: sust ag for small farms, plus a lot at home re: closing on the house and moving, but after that all settles down we should get together and compare notes, Jill To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 11 20:34:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA12434 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA18570 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:43:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA18512 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:43:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA10730 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:43:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199904112343.TAA10730@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: allelopathic effect of oats To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:43:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 389 friends - how worried should I be about planting vegetable seeds this spring into winter killed oats? I have heard oats have an allelopathic effect on some plants and may hinder germination. Some things I planted are not germinating and I wonder if it's the oats, or just plain bad luck. Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 11 21:36:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13313 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA03422 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:02:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA03267 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp63-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.63]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA14721 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:02:40 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: Advice on citrus leaf miner Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:13:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000301be8481$a883a540$3f3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199904112343.TAA10730@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 390 Citrus leaf miner has only been in Australia for a decade or so. I had a modest/manageable problem with it on some trees when the orchard was young, in the early 1990s. But not for some years, until the last month (which is late summer-autumn here), despite the fact that a conventional farmer has leaf miner in poorly managed trees about 150 yards away. When the trees were younger I also had problems with aphid at this time of year. So many people had advised me on the virtue of iron for citrus that I had been giving them an iron top up (using an azoterbacterial ferric scum from backwaters in the creek). I then realised that iron may drive out potassium, and a potassium weakness in the autumn may be the source of the aphid problem. I stopped the iron addition (except for the creek water which seems fairly high in dissolved ferrous salts, hence the ability of microorganisms to deposit ferric scum), added a small amount of ash and no aphid problem since. Coincidentally or otherwise, no leaf miner. The spread over quite a few branches of the leaf miner activity just now was possible because of a month's absence. It's an easy matter to remove and destroy leaves where the miners may be. The incidence is on trees well apart, in a permaculture/mixed up orchard, on the trees which have been most in the sun in a sheltered valley/intense planted environment, trees which may have more fresh shoots. Some of these trees may have been short on water, others abundant. My question is whether anyone has associated this pest with any particular nutritional deficiency or some such circumstance? thanks in advance for any advice Dennis Argall To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 00:42:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA15737 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA01196 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:37:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from iglou.com (sendmail@shell1.iglou.com [192.107.41.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA01162 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.255.238.205] (helo=ripley.iglou.com) by iglou.com with smtp (8.9.1/8.9.1) id 10WXX6-0007FN-00; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:37:13 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990412033443.00728f44@iglou.com> X-Sender: ripley@iglou.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:34:43 -0400 To: From: "Dawn M. Ripley" Subject: It's raining pesticides (http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19990403/newsstory12.h Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA01164 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 391 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAB08660 This. below, is the New Scientist text. Search for 'glyphosate at the New Scientist search engine http://www.newscientist.com/Architext/AT-whole_sitequery.html turns up lots more Dennis Argall ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- HOME CONTENTS JOBS [Archive: 3 April 1999] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- It's raining pesticides Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie RAIN IS NOT what it used to be. A new study reveals that much of the precipitation in Europe contains such high levels of dissolved pesticides that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking water. Studies in Switzerland have found that rain is laced with toxic levels of atrazine, alachlor and other commonly used crop sprays. "Drinking water standards are regularly exceeded in rain," says Stephan Mller, a chemist at the Swiss Federal Institute for Environmental Science and Technology in Dbendorf. The chemicals appear to have evaporated from fields and become part of the clouds. Both the European Union and Switzerland have set a limit of 100 nanograms for any particular pesticide in a litre of drinking water. But, especially in the first minutes of a heavy storm, rain can contain much more than that. In a study to be published by Mller and his colleague Thomas Bucheli in Analytical Chemistry this summer, one sample of rainwater contained almost 4000 nanograms per litre of 2,4-dinitrophenol, a widely used pesticide. Previously, the authors had shown that in rain samples taken from 41 storms, nine contained more than 100 nanograms of atrazine per litre, one of them around 900 nanograms. In the latest study, the highest concentrations of pesticides turned up in the first rain after a long dry spell, particularly when local fields had recently been sprayed. Until now, scientists had assumed that the pesticides only infiltrated groundwater directly from fields. Mller warns that the growing practice of using rainwater that falls onto roofs to recharge underground water may be adding to the danger. This water often contains dissolved herbicides that had been added to roofing materials, such as bitumen sheets, to prevent vegetation growing. He suggests that the first flush of rains should be diverted into sewers to minimise the pollution of drinking water, which is not usually treated to remove these herbicides and pesticides. Meanwhile, Swedish researchers have linked pesticides to one of the most rapidly increasing cancers in the Western world. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which has risen by 73 per cent in the US since 1973, is probably caused by several commonly used crop sprays, say the scientists. Lennart Hardell of Orebro Medical Centre and Mikael Eriksson of Lund University Hospital found Swedish sufferers of the disease were 2.7 times more likely to have been exposed to MCPA, a widely used weedkiller, than healthy people (Cancer, vol 85 p 1353). MCPA, which is used on grain crops, is sold as Target by the Swiss firm Novartis. In addition, patients were 3.7 times more likely to have been exposed to a range of fungicides, an association not previously reported. The patients were also 2.3 times more likely to have had contact with glyphosate, the most commonly used herbicide in Sweden. Use of this chemical, sold as Round-Up by the US firm Monsanto, is expected to rocket with the introduction of crops, such as Roundup-Ready soya beans, that are genetically modified to resist glyphosate. The researchers suggest that the chemicals have suppressed the patients' immunity, allowing viruses such as Epstein-Barr to trigger cancer. From New Scientist, 3 April 1999 New Scientist Home: current week _________________________ New Scientist Contents: 3 April 1999 Editorial: 3 April News: 3 April Features: April Review: 3 April Forum: 3 April Letters: 3 April Feedback: 3 April The Last Word: 3 April _________________________ Back Issues _________________________ Bizarre Science _________________________ Planet Student _________________________ Search the site _________________________ Subscribe to New Scientist Copyright New Scientist, RBI Limited 1999 New Scientist Planet Science: It's raining pesticides
    This. below, is the New Scientist text.
     
    Search for 'glyphosate at the New Scientist search engine
    turns up lots more
     
    Dennis Argall
     

    HOME · CONTENTS · JOBS

    [Archive: 3 April 1999]


    News 
    
    

    It's raining pesticides

    Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie

    RAIN IS NOT what it used to be. A new study reveals that much of the precipitation in Europe contains such high levels of dissolved pesticides that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking water.

    Studies in Switzerland have found that rain is laced with toxic levels of atrazine, alachlor and other commonly used crop sprays. "Drinking water standards are regularly exceeded in rain," says Stephan Müller, a chemist at the Swiss Federal Institute for Environmental Science and Technology in Dübendorf. The chemicals appear to have evaporated from fields and become part of the clouds.

    Both the European Union and Switzerland have set a limit of 100 nanograms for any particular pesticide in a litre of drinking water. But, especially in the first minutes of a heavy storm, rain can contain much more than that.

    In a study to be published by Müller and his colleague Thomas Bucheli in Analytical Chemistry this summer, one sample of rainwater contained almost 4000 nanograms per litre of 2,4-dinitrophenol, a widely used pesticide. Previously, the authors had shown that in rain samples taken from 41 storms, nine contained more than 100 nanograms of atrazine per litre, one of them around 900 nanograms.

    In the latest study, the highest concentrations of pesticides turned up in the first rain after a long dry spell, particularly when local fields had recently been sprayed. Until now, scientists had assumed that the pesticides only infiltrated groundwater directly from fields.

    Müller warns that the growing practice of using rainwater that falls onto roofs to recharge underground water may be adding to the danger. This water often contains dissolved herbicides that had been added to roofing materials, such as bitumen sheets, to prevent vegetation growing. He suggests that the first flush of rains should be diverted into sewers to minimise the pollution of drinking water, which is not usually treated to remove these herbicides and pesticides.

    Meanwhile, Swedish researchers have linked pesticides to one of the most rapidly increasing cancers in the Western world. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which has risen by 73 per cent in the US since 1973, is probably caused by several commonly used crop sprays, say the scientists.

    Lennart Hardell of Orebro Medical Centre and Mikael Eriksson of Lund University Hospital found Swedish sufferers of the disease were 2.7 times more likely to have been exposed to MCPA, a widely used weedkiller, than healthy people (Cancer, vol 85 p 1353).

    MCPA, which is used on grain crops, is sold as Target by the Swiss firm Novartis. In addition, patients were 3.7 times more likely to have been exposed to a range of fungicides, an association not previously reported.

    The patients were also 2.3 times more likely to have had contact with glyphosate, the most commonly used herbicide in Sweden. Use of this chemical, sold as Round-Up by the US firm Monsanto, is expected to rocket with the introduction of crops, such as Roundup-Ready soya beans, that are genetically modified to resist glyphosate. The researchers suggest that the chemicals have suppressed the patients' immunity, allowing viruses such as Epstein-Barr to trigger cancer.

    From New Scientist, 3 April 1999

    
    

     
     

    © Copyright New Scientist, RBI Limited 1999

    -------------------------------- Dawn M. Ripley County Extension Agent for Urban Programs (502) 425-4482 Jefferson County Cooperative Extension Service (502) 425-0109 (fax) 8012 Vinecrest Avenue, Suite 1 ripley@iglou.com (home) Louisville, Kentucky 40222-4690 dripley@ca.uky.edu (work) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 11:44:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22630 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA03065 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:51:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02937 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA15698 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:51:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199904121451.KAA15698@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: small scale grain harvesting To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:51:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 392 friends - here are some websites I discovered on my search for small scale grain harvesting equipment: www.domyco.com/const-agri-equip/pump-spray-thresher.htm hoffmanmfg.com/ndx.html www.agrobengal.org/profiles/machine.htm www.oneworld.org/itdg/journals/atindex.html www.cgiar.org/irri www.cgiar.org/cimmyt also, search for "Cecoco." I found a mail address for them, but no website. You can order the "Guide Book for Rural Cottage and Small and Medium Scale Industries and Paddy Rice Cultivation." Write: Cecoco, po Box 8, Ibaraki City, Osaka 567, Japan. Also, see Whole Grains: Grow, Harvest and Cook Your Own, By Sara Pitzer, pub. by Garden Way 1981. Has plans for a simple pedal-powered thresher. That's as much as I've come up with so far. Heard of a thresher made from a reel-type push lawn mower. Heard it works quite well, at least on dry beans. Anybody know where I can find the plans for it? I will post futher info as it comes in. Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 12:26:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23264 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27545 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27444 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.22] (gl-ppp02.hevanet.com [204.119.60.22]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03366 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904121538.IAA03366@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:39:41 -0700 Subject: FW: Recycled Tire "Fluff" and "Crumb" Help the Environment From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 393 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Recycled Tire "Fluff" and "Crumb" Help the Environment Date: Mon, Apr 12, 1999, 6:52 AM STORY LEAD: Recycled Tire "Fluff" and "Crumb" Help the Environment ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov April 12, 1999 ----------- What should be done with the more than 265 million tires discarded each year? Recycling would be the ideal solution, and Agricultural Research Service scientists have found a way to do it. They extract the pulverized rubber and polyester/nylon mixture from tires and divide it into two separate materials. The polyester/nylon fiber is called fluff, and the rubber material is called crumb. Currently companies typically cut the tires into smaller pieces. The rubber and polyester/nylon fiber are then pulverized using either a freezing treatment and a hammer mill, or by grinding up the material. The companies recover over 50 percent of the rubber from this process, but the remainder is still sent to landfills. The rubber that is recovered is valued at about $500 per ton. Agricultural Engineer W. Stanley Anthony, head of ARS' Cotton Ginning Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., developed the new, improved process based on cotton ginning technology. Anthony's two patent-pending methods allow companies to also recover the fiber for a newly developing market. A company that places 12 tons per day in a landfill could potentially turn that into an additional $5,700 a day. Products such as new tires, truck bed liners, running tracks, shoes, carpet backing, brake pads and shoes, asphalt, water hoses, and floor mats can be made from the recycled rubber. Several companies are considering licensing this technology. ARS is USDA's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: W. Stanley Anthony, ARS Cotton Ginning Research Unit, Stoneville, Miss., phone (601) 686-3094, fax (601) 686-5438, anthonys@ars.usda.gov ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 12:27:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23305 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA19624 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:55:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA19552 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990412140024.3542.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:00:24 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:00:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Fwd: Fwd: BBB/CIA Pies Biotechnology Spin Doctor To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 394 FYI for those of you following the Biotic Baking Brigade... > From: Brian Tokar > Subject: BBB/CIA Pies Biotechnology Spin Doctor > > >X-Sender: agit-prop@192.168.100.2 > >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 01:26:10 -1222 > >To: BBB Correspondents > >From: agitation-propaganda > >Subject: BBB/CIA Pies Biotechnology Spin Doctor > > > >For Immediate Release: April 8, 1999 > > > >Grinnell, Iowa--The Biotic Baking Brigade (BBB) > delivered yet another pie > >to a deserving recipient today, this time to free market > biotechnology > >advocate Dennis Avery at the "Biotechnology and > Agriculture" conference on > >the campus of Grinnell College. > > > >The Central Iowa Anarchist (CIA) cell of the BBB > conducted "Operation: > >Avery's Savory" to target the man who serves as Director > of the Center for > >Global Food Issues at the Hudson Institute, as a > response to his shameless > >and flagrant support of biotechnology and industrial > factory farming. > > > >The pastry incident occurred around noon at the Herrick > Chapel during the > >conference's convocation. As Avery delivered a keynote > speech, BBB/CIA > >Agent Carob suddenly appeared and replaced the bald spot > on Avery's head > >with a delightful vegan and mostly organic (it is Iowa, > after all--no Mecca > >for health food, indeed) carob/almond/apple sauce pie. > Agent Carob then > >escaped on foot and disappeared, as they say, without a > trace. > > > >"Dennis Avery is especially known for his > industry-biased neoliberal > >analyses of trends in food demand, productivity, and > global farm > >competition; in other words, he's a shill for industrial > factory farming > >and the so-called 'Green Revolution.' Likewise, the > Center for Global Food > >Issues is a front group for 'Big Agriculture,' which > increasingly is > >focused on using biotechnology to create a 'Next Green > Revolution.' If we > >don't stop these mad Frankensteins from polluting our > food chain now, we > >will have a nightmarish agricultural monster to deal > with later. And as the > >BBB always says, a pie in time saves nine," declared > Agent Carob. > > > >Avery served nearly a decade as a senior agriculture > analyst for the U.S. > >Department of State, and has conducted policy analysis > for the U.S. > >Department of Agriculture. He authored "Saving the > Planet with Pesticides > >and Plastics," and also wrote "How Poverty Won't Save > the Planet"-- a > >response paper to John Robbins' "Diet for a New > America." Avery wrote in > >American Outlook magazine (a quarterly publication of > the Hudson Institute) > >that "consumers of organic and 'natural' foods are eight > times as likely to > >be attacked by a new strain of E. coli bacteria," a > claim which has been > >completely debunked. He also claimed that, "We've never > found a single > >consumer death from pesticide residues, and only a few > dozen cases of > >consumer illness." > > > >The Hudson Institute's Center for Global Food Issues > serves a key role for > >agriculture that 'Wise Use' movement groups do for > mining and logging: the > >propagation of misinformation and lies under the banner > of science. Avery > >argues that "there is no evidence of a growing ozone > hole, over the Arctic > >or anywhere else," that there is no global warming, and > logging is good > >because, "if a tree isn't cut, it will die and rot" > (quotes taken from "How > >Poverty Won't Save the World"). The title of an Avery > article posted on the > >Center's website says it all: "Big Hog Farms are Good > for the Environment." > >Appropriately enough, noted agricultural scholar, > activist, and former Vice > >President Dan Quayle serves on the Board of Directors at > the Hudson > >Institute. Check out http://www.cgfi.com/ > > > >This latest incident follows three previous successful > pie operations in > >California, in which the CEOs of the two largest global > biotech > >corporations (Robert Shapiro of Monsanto and Douglas > Watson of Novartis) > >and two university chancellors (Robert Berdahl and Larry > Vanderhoef of the > >University of California at Berkeley and Davis, > respectively), were also > >given their just desserts for recklessly pushing the > genetic engineering > >agenda. On February 5th, the group Welsh Action Against > Genetics (WAAG) > >attempted to pie the United Kingdom's Science Minister, > Lord David > >Sainsbury, while he was on a tour of SwanseaUniversity. > Regrettably, a WAAG > >operative failed in her/his organic cream pie delivery, > though Lord > >Sainsbury was forced to scuttle around the university > and hide sheepishly > >in doorways as other activists attempted follow up > actions. The minister > >was last seen been bundled into a car and being sped > away from his group of > >"admirers." > > > >"Operation: Avery's Savory" is dedicated to our fellow > BBB agent-comrades > >who bravely face down the criminal 'justice' system, and > who will change > >the world or pie trying. This pie-by splooshing goes out > to the Cherry Pie > >3, sentenced to 6 months for the Mayor Brown pie > incident, as well as to > >Agents Pecan (Bob Greenberg) of the BBB--Midwest Faction > in Minnesota and > >Creamy Genes (Dave Pike) of the BBB-Nor'eastah > Irregulars in New Hampshire. > >Both agents are facing serious charges as a result of > delivering just > >desserts to a pie-falutin' state senator and a > genetics/animal cloner, > >respectively. > > > >San Francisco Judge Ernest Goldsmith thought his > draconian sentence for the > >Cherry Pie 3 would deter any further pielitical > pressure, and Lt. Col. > >Steve Mengelkoch of the Minnesota State Patrol recently > asserted that "we > >will deal aggressively" with Agent Pecan. But in point > of fact, the > >opposite reaction to what the forces of law and order > want has occurred, > >and political re-pie-sals have increased dramatically > throughout the > >industrial world. As Max Stirner wrote many decades ago, > "The great appear > >great only because we are on our knees. Let us now pie." > >---------------------------------------------------------- > > > >A first-hand account of "Operation: Avery's Savory," > received at the > >BBB--Ecotopia's General Command somewhere in the > mountains of the > >Headwaters Forest, via an encrypted and anonymously > remailed communique > >from Agent Almond of the BBB/CIA. > > > > ********************* > >Agent Apple, > >Here's an account of today's operation. Grinnell College > has a symposium > >all week this week about "Biotechnology and > Agriculture." Grinnell is an > >incredibly liberal school, and does not usually support > the dominant > >paradigm, but the professors from the environmental > studies department, the > >poly-sci department, and the biology department brought > a series of > >speakers here almost all adamantly PRO genetic > engineering and biotech. > >Only one speaker (from the consumer's right-to-know > group) was against it, > >but she had to call herself to ask to be added to the > schedule, and then > >wasn't even added until the last minute, so she wasn't > in the brochure and > >she spoke over lunch and only five people were there. > To the Grinnell > >community, a slanted symposium like this is surprising. > We don't see shit > >like this at our "liberal" school very often. > > > >Anyway... > >At the most important speech, the "convocation" (big > deal around here, LOTS > >of people there) Dennis Avery began the faithful biotech > party line. As he > >held forth on why vegetarianism was a waste of time and > how there are > >"primitive" people starving who need to be fed by > increased industrial and > >biotechnological food production, Agent Carob suddenly > appeared behind > >Avery and replaced the bald spot on his head with a > carob almond apple > >sauce pie. Agent Carob then escaped out the side door > by the stage. > >Immediately, several of the previous speakers and a > couple professors who > >were in the first row tried to stop him/her, and one who > made it outside > >the building almost caught Agent Carob, who escaped on > foot. > > > >A woman who was standing by the door also allegedly went > out and jumped on > >a bicycle, but was intercepted by one of the earlier > speakers from the > >symposium--Monty Miller. This man, who currently heads a > corporation called > >Performance Solutions, "from 1981-1990 held numerous > management positions > >with the Monsanto Company" (quoted from Grinnell's > brochure about the > >speakers and the symposium). He ran at her and her bike, > physically grabbed > >her and knocked her down, resulting in her falling with > her ankle twisted > >and all the weight of not only her and the bike, but > also Mr. Monty Miller. > >He then proceeded to hold her down despite her screams > that her ankle was > >hurting, though he did however lift most of his own > weight off of her. She > >spent four hours in the hospital. Her ankle was x-rayed: > not broken, but > >severely sprained. She spoke to her lawyer and is > consider filing assault > >and battery charges as well as false imprisonment > charges against him. The > >last charge because he never said, "I'm making a > citizens arrest," and > >since no charges were filed against her, Miller had no > right to detain her. > > > >The school threatened the woman with expulsion in an > attempt to find out > >the identity of Agent Carob. The police were notified > and briefly > >questioned her, but left rather quickly after receiving > no information. > > > >Avery's response to the pie-ing was to remark that he > felt "flattered" by > >the action, and then he continued to take questions from > the audience. The > >response among the students was very mixed. > > > >About serving 'dessert' to corporate crooks: my English > teacher used to say > >there are two 's'es in that > >word because you always want more! Give them MORE. > > > >Yours till the cookie crumbles, > >Agent Almond for the BBB/CIA > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >*************************************************** > > Friends of the BBB: 3288 21st #92, San Francisco, CA, > 94110, Amerika. > > > bbb_apple@hotmail.com > >*************************************************** > > > > > === ------------------ Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 609-234-9200 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 12:31:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23424 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07907 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:26:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.2.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07708 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.2.16]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02338 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncc.uky.edu.uky.edu ([128.163.196.145]) by pop.uky.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA01866 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990413102627.006fa0f0@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: toria@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:26:27 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Victoria Mundy Subject: Major sustainable ag coalitions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 395 Hi everyone, I'm writing a paper about the major funders and coalitions for sustainable ag in the Southern region. I'm thinking that those include Southern SARE, Southern SAWG, the WK Kellogg IFFS Projects, and the Campaign for Sustainable Ag activities. Does anyone know of any other major activities or funders that cover the entire region? I want to make sure I haven't missed one. I know that everyone's individual organizations do wonderful work -- and in fact the paper is about how the individual organizations come together in coalitions -- but I'd really appreciate your input about major regional efforts. Please respond to me personally. My respects and regrets to the rest of the country, but I had to focus my efforts a bit. Maybe the next paper.... Thank you all very much, Victoria Mundy ************************************* Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy N106R Ag. Sci. North, UK Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 12:32:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23428 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA07793 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:57:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07738 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp77.epix.net [209.74.60.77]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id LAA28992 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37121947.52AC8323@epix.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:03:19 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: slugs, snails Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 396 Sanet, I had a guy from California contact me regarding slug/snail problems he was having in growing oriental veggies. Organic methods are preferred but suggestions with other strategies are welcome. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 12:37:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23673 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA13633 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:05:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA13624 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:05:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (monk-a-asy-6.rutgers.edu [165.230.176.74]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA10538 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <371236CF.600A@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:09:19 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Liability Issues in the Land Application of Sewage Sludge: Seminar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 397 This might be of interest to those in this region. "Liability Issues in the Land Application of Sewage Sludge" Friday April 16, in Room 223 at 3:30 p.m. Environmental and Natural Resources Sciences Building 14 College Farm Road, Cook College New Brunswick, NJ Cook College Abstract can be found at: http://www.envsci.rutgers.edu/info/apr16.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 14:06:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25588 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24813 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:16:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24791 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (sendmail@mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09516 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (jaemus-52.mdm.mad.execpc.com [169.207.108.52]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.1) id MAA20305 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:16:40 -0500 Message-ID: <37122AB0.54D@execpc.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:17:36 -0500 From: "WISCONSIN RURAL DEVELOPMENT CTR." Reply-To: wrdc@execpc.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Position Available Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 398 Position Description EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR STATUS: Full-time SALARY: Dependent on experience and qualifications; $38,000 minimum BENEFITS: To be discussed APPLICATION DEADLINE: June 4, 1999 STARTING DATE: July 1, 1999 or as soon as possible The Wisconsin Rural Development Center seeks a full-time Executive Director with responsibility for the overall administration and operation of the organization. The position will be located at the Wisconsin Rural Development Center's office in Monona, Wisconsin, on the eastern edge of Madison. The person will have experience working with membership organizations and techniques; knowledge of existing federal, state and local agriculture, resource conservation and rural community development programs and policies; and familiarity with the experiences of farm and rural organizations. The person will work closely with other staff to achieve organizational goals including broadening the rural support base of the WRDC and meeting the needs of the WRDC's members. Experiences and Abilities: Grassroots organizing, policy development and advocacy. Membership recruitment and development. Organizational development and strategic planning. Board training and development. Extensive fundraising experience. Administrative skills/staff supervision. Working collaboratively with farmers, rural activists, government, environmentalists and church groups. Understanding rural, especially farming-dependent, communities. Enthusiasm for the mission and purposes of the Wisconsin Rural Development Center. Responsibilities and Duties: Manage the development, implementation, evaluation and updating of programs and projects aimed at achieving the WRDC's goals and objectives. In conjunction with the Board, develop an annual organizational work plan, budget and financial plan; also provide periodic progress reports on plan implementation to the WRDC Board. Recruit, train, hire, supervise, evaluate and terminate staff in compliance with established organizational policies and procedures. Help plan and manage the WRDC's fundraising program, including maintaining relationships with existing funding sources, developing new sources and grant writing. Serve as one of the organization's primary spokespersons. Establish and maintain relationships with WRDC members, other rural citizens, state and local institutions, and organizations that impact or are impacted by WRDC programs and projects. Arrange for Board, staff and member training as necessary; also provide support and assistance to WRDC chapters and members as necessary. Assist in recruiting, orienting and training new Board members. Perform other related duties as assigned by the WRDC Board. How to Apply: Submit your resume, three references (including recent supervisors), a writing sample (preferably persuasive writing), and a cover letter of no more than two pages responding to the following questions: Why are you interested in this position and how does it relate to your personal goals? What are the most important challenges facing farm and rural advocacy organizations and how can they be addressed? What are your most significant accomplishments? What are your strengths? (provide examples that demonstrate your strengths) Address your application to: Executive Director Search Committee, Wisconsin Rural Development Center, 4915 Monona Drive, Suite 304, Monona, WI 53716. Faxed applications will be accepted at 608-226-0301. The deadline for these materials is Friday, June 4, 1999. About the Wisconsin Rural Development Center: The Wisconsin Rural Development Center is a membership-based, nonprofit organization that was formed in 1983 to promote a sustainable vision for Wisconsin agriculture and rural communities. The organization was created by family farmers, conservationists, rural citizens and religious leaders with the following purpose in mind: to encourage an agricultural system based on small and medium-sized family operated farms; to protect natural resources; to foster prosperous rural communities; and to promote social and economic justice in rural Wisconsin. Since its inception, the WRDC has been a leader in on-farm sustainable agriculture research, public education, grassroots organizing, and public policy advocacy. A main focus has been promoting the adoption of environmentally sound farming systems through the use of alternatives to and reductions in pesticide use, intensive rotational grazing, and development of whole farm, total resource management plans. Other current areas of emphasis include: requiring banks to meet community reinvestment act guidelines; working locally, statewide and nationally to level the playing field for small- and mid-sized family farms; expanding participation in community supported agriculture (CSA) and providing access to CSAs by low-income persons; developing programs for comprehensive land use planning and farmland protection; and assisting in the creation of sustainable and "value added" rural businesses. The WRDC is governed by a volunteer board of directors. 50% of the board members are farmers; the rest are rural residents, educators and business people. The board's current programs are implemented by five full time and two part time staff working with an annual budget of approximately $500,000. Financial support comes from private foundation and federal/state agency grants, membership fees, individual contributions and sales of publications. -- Wisconsin Rural Development Center 4915 Monona Drive, Suite 304 Monona, WI 53716 608/226-0300 fax 608/226-0301 email wrdc@execpc.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 18:33:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA02555 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08355 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08273 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com (sendmail@mailgw00.execpc.com [169.207.1.78]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12291 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (jaemus-52.mdm.mad.execpc.com [169.207.108.52]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.9.1) id QAA03862 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:50:03 -0500 Message-ID: <37126AC4.7A35@execpc.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:51:00 -0500 From: "WISCONSIN RURAL DEVELOPMENT CTR." Reply-To: wrdc@execpc.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: CSA Coordinator Position in Wisconsin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 399 MACSAC and PARTNER SHARES PROGRAM COORDINATORS POSITIONS The Madison Area Community Supported Agriculture Coalition (MACSAC) seeks qualified individuals to work with MACSAC and the Partner Shares Program. Each listed position will be 50% time. Candidates are encouraged to apply for one or both positions as their skills and interests dictate. POSITION #1: MACSAC COORDINATOR ABOUT THE MADISON AREA CSA COALITION The Madison Area Community Supported Agriculture Coalition (MACSAC) was formed in 1992 to develop a strong local network of community supported farms. Comprised of farmers, community activists, and representatives of organizations that support sustainable agriculture, the Coalition's work focuses on the following four areas: Farmer collaboration, networking, and community building Consumer education and outreach Farmer support and education Food-related social justice MACSAC is currently hiring a permanent staff person to provide continuity and administrative support to our largely volunteer organization, and to work to further the goals and projects of the Coalition. LIST OF DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITITES Coordinate and recruit coalition volunteers Maintain, develop, and distribute outreach materials Plan and coordinate outreach events Maintain and enhance relationships with media Maintain and develop member communications Plan and coordinate farmer education and events Network with food system-related organizations Manage program budget Fundraising and grantwriting SKILLS AND BACKGROUND DESIRED Excellent interpersonal communication skills Strong writing and public speaking skills Ability to work independently, and as a team member Ability to motivate and organize volunteers Detail-oriented with strong organizational skills Experience in working with print, broadcast and electronic media Experience in non-profit fundraising and grantwriting Familiarity and experience with sustainable agriculture and food security issues POSITION #2: PARTNER SHARES PROGRAM COORDINATOR ABOUT THE PARTNER SHARES PROGRAM The Partner Shares Program (PSP) was established in 1997 as a project of MACSAC, the Wisconsin Rural Development Center (WRDC), and the Hunger Prevention Council of Dane County (HPC). Partner Shares links lower-income households and supported-living households with a community supported farm. Participating households receive a CSA share while paying at a reduced rate. PSP work involves: Raising funds to provide scholarships to low-income households Working with communities of faith to promote congregation supported agriculture Assisting participating households with negotiating CSA membership Planning student and youth group farm-a-thons. LIST OF DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITITES The program coordinator is responsible for implementing the Partner Shares Program in partnership with the steering committee. Duties include: Fund-raising and grant-writing for program administration and for participant scholarships Identify individuals and organizations eligible for and desiring participation in PSP Link participating households with CSA farms Provide support to participating households and CSA farms Maintain, develop, and distribute outreach materials Provide support and expand membership on the PSP steering committee Manage program budget (with WRDC financial manager) Network with interested communities of faith and religious congregations Plan and implement volunteer and fund-raising activities Represent the program at events, conferences, and workshops Network with other food system and food security organizations Other activities as deemed appropriate SKILLS AND BACKGROUND DESIRED Excellent interpersonal communication skills Strong writing and public speaking skills Ability to work independently, and as a team member Ability to motivate and organize volunteers Detail-oriented with strong organizational skills Experience in non-profit fundraising and grantwriting Proven record in program management Familiarity with sustainable agriculture and food security issues Desire to expand the program to cover other aspects of food-related social justice ADMINISTRATIVE DETAILS Annual salary will be the full-time equivalent of $24,000 to $27,000, commensurate with experience. Paid holidays, sick and vacation time and a cash health benefit are included. The staff person(s) will be housed at the Wisconsin Rural Development Center. This is a one-year position, with the possibility of continued employment. APPLICATION PROCESS To apply, please send a resume and cover letter describing your skills, interests and background to: MACSAC C/O Wisconsin Rural Development Center 4915 Monona Drive, Suite #304 Monona, WI 53716 Applications must be postmarked by April 29, 1999 -- Wisconsin Rural Development Center 4915 Monona Drive, Suite 304 Monona, WI 53716 608/226-0300 fax 608/226-0301 email wrdc@execpc.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 20:46:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA06052 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA05039 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:02:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA05030 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA14009 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id TAA01708; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:02:15 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (4.1) id xma001150; Mon, 12 Apr 99 19:00:15 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2ZLMFNFT>; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:00:15 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC0AB@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Grace J Gershuny'" , "'Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison'" Subject: Pineapple prophets Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:00:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 400 Michel and Grace, Something has been bothering me for a couple weeks, about the relationship between free markets and sustainability. This thread on pineapple is a good example to talk about it. Michele wrote: > Welllllll. Perhaps aligning our tastes and demands with what the > plant can provide would be reasonable. And returning the pineapple to > its status as a seasonal fruit. All our crop plants have been highly manipulated to produce products that we like to eat. And not only the cultivar, but the whole system. The whole agricultural system (incl. permaculture) is laced with human management through and through. It seems like the logical conclusion of your quietistic line of reasoning would be foraging in wild lands and nothing more. > I.e., letting consumer demand and markets (another form of exclusive > focus on profits) drive everything is a short-sighted strategy. I would venture that the driver is simply the desire for pineapple. I don't think the desire for nice fruit is a product of culture. > It seems to me that one of the lessons of organic production should > be to return consumers to some realism about where food comes from, > rather than trying to provide them with all the luxuries to which > they have become accustomed... So, "organic" production is going to deliver the natural law commandments? Are you going to be the prophet? > ...in the industrial food system. Suppose I devise a practical, harmless method to induce flowering in pineapple (this was done long ago, BTW). Does that make me part of the "industrial food system"? Who are you to tell me or my customers that we shouldn't eat pineapple outside of the (non-human-manipulated) season? Why is this so political? (puritanical?) Your vision of natural law fails to accomodate human creativity. > I don't see how we in sustag/orgag can compete with the > industrial food system in terms of titillating people's > consumer desires, then providing products for that. A fully ripe fresh pineapple will titillate almost anyones consumer desire, and THAT'S OKAY! > But I do think that we can help give them what they really > need and want. Like healthy food and reconnection with the > seasons. So I guess you are volunteering to be prophet and teacher to tell us what we should want. Doggone it, I just want pineapple! Misha, I am not trying to ridicule you, but to whittle down to the real issues. The more I look at your words the more I think these are freedom and autonomy. Suppose I want to start a company and enter the capitalist realm. This is risky and difficult, but let's say I am hugely successful, and I produce new varieties of melon that people really like. Or I write brilliant and useful computer programs, or learn to produce organic pineapple out of season. What is wrong with my profiting from this? Grace wrote privately: > What consumers want is not a law of nature, but is a product of > intense manipulation. When the demands of the market run counter > to ecological and health demands, something is wrong. My hypothetical products are examples, not of fighting nature, or violating natural law, but of learning to navigate the intricacies of natural systems. In the case of pineapple, it is a matter of manipulating floral induction using naturally occuring hormones. It is not as ecologically pervasive a manipulation as the pineapple production system itself. Sure, all these things should be evaluated for safety, but that is apparently not the issue you take with the practice of treating pineapples with ethylene. Why should I adhere to your interpretation of natural law? Dale Wilson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 21:15:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06383 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:15:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA05343 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:04:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA05332 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([148.233.240.96]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:04:05 -0500 Message-ID: <371297F4.760CA326@acnet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:03:49 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: [Fwd: exporting organics to Mexico] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B0CE8AFE3593ABD694EEFAA9" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 401 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B0CE8AFE3593ABD694EEFAA9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------B0CE8AFE3593ABD694EEFAA9 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <37129729.8E908811@acnet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:00:27 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" Subject: Re: exporting organics to Mexico References: <2683B3B78A0@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1F69AF31E5FF34371E40AC76" --------------1F69AF31E5FF34371E40AC76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A bit long - but this may interest some of you. Anita Graf (Staff) first wrote and I answered: > Dear Mr. Hinds, > > ... you may be in > a position to answer a question I have been pursuing... I have > been recently trying to get a handle on the current situation for US > organic exports to several different countries, and have not been > able to get any information about Mexico. (In fact, I couldn't even > find anyone in the Mex gov't that even knew what "organic" food is!) > > DH - Oficial federal regulations exist so you didn't talk to the right > people. > > First, assuming that there IS a market for US organic food in Mexico, > > DH - The fact is, there isn't (hope you can read html text). The official > federal regulations that exist were developed for primarily for export > purposes, in response to OFPA's mandating countries wishing to export organic > foods to the U.S. to have a similar > structure in place. However, while the market for organics is as yet > undeveloped (no supply makes demand unlikely - consumers won't ask for what > they don't know and can't buy what isn't being offered). The potential is > there for the same > reasons that made it happen elsewhere: Noticeable eating quality > differences (compared to conventional products) and health considerations. > Low buying power will be the main problem, as things stand. > > can you tell me if there are any standards or organic-related > procedures that such shipments would need to go through? > > DH - Commerce is an event that occurs between buyer and seller, mitigated by > a legal structure that may or may not exist. For food to be sold as organic > (as distinct being being in fact organically grown), we can assume that > people who are familiar > with what organic food is elsewhere, will be involved. This means that at > present, governmental intervention will be minimal. > > I read about a new Mexican organic rule/regulation recently off the attache > > reports of the FAS (but again, have not had any luck contacting > anyone listed on that report). > > DH - Like who? (were you trying to contact). > > I am not looking for information on what it takes to export regular > foods (and here, I know that there's a slightly different path for a > slew of differentiated food products), I just want to know if > products which proport to be organic face any extra requirement upon > entry to the Mexican market. > > Juridically, I doubt it. As stated, the quality has got to be there - that's > the principal issue, along with buying power. You will have to begin with > large towns and affluent neighborhoods. > > If you could help me this information, I would very much appreciate > it. The next round: > You wrote: > > > > Like who? (were you trying to contact). > > > Well, let's see. I tried contacting the US Ag Trade Office (never > got an answer -- the # I have for them is 525-202-0168, is this > correct?), When Elaine Bohen was contracted by the US Embassy (where her husband worked) to represent the US Ag Trade Office some years back, she did so out of her home and that was her number. However, the same fax number she used was also used later. Try faxing 011 525 202 0528, but I can't guarantee it's still current. > and I talked to at least 3 trade officials at SECOFI (I > speak Spanish). Would someone outside the U.S. wanting to export organic food products to the U.S. need to talk to someone at the U.S. Dept. of Commerce, or someone at the USDA? You need to talk to someone at Sanidad Vegetal of the the SAGAR (Ag Secretariat). Try: 011 (525) 554-05-12 - Direccion General de Sanidad Vegetal or 011 (525) 584-80-00 EXT. 126 - Direccion de Asuntos Internacionales once again, these may or may not be current - but that's who you need to talk to. > > You still haven't told me just what it is you want to do. Export organic > > foods to Mexico? Or do a study on it? If it's the former, you main > > things you need are a product and a buyer. If it's the latter, there's > > not a lot of precedent for it, as yet so there's not much out there in > > the way of data. > > The latter. I'm working on an informational study for a variety of > entities, including the U of GA (where I am), the Econ Research > Service of the USDA and the Wallace Institute. Nothing of a > practical nature is intended to occur YET! I'm just trying to find > out what is the situation faced by US exporters of organic to various > countries, including Mexico. > > > But everyone (except the one's you talked to, evidently) > > Evidently!! > > > already knows what organic food is. The disposition is > > there. But the product had better be good - demonstrably better than the > > conventional equivilent. > > I don't see why it would have to be "demonstrably" better (ie, > prettier, tastier, or easier to handle) since that isn't a condition > for organic in any other country. Organic ag represents a certain > set of *production pracitices* not a final product. Most people who > believe in organic ag are not only doing so out of support for the > ecology of the planet, but because they have faith that the final > product is different. It's not just faith. And faith itself is strongest when founded on a physical reality (although some may disagree). And even though the essence of an organism (including fruits and vegetables) can transcend time and space, at some given moment in time and space it will take form. In this particular case, it happens that Mexicans in general are more skeptical by nature and/or experience of "certified claims". In fact, Mexico is a revolutionary country, and proudly so. Authority must be earned, it's not gratuitous or fatuous. Furthermore, the Mexican diet is made up to a MUCH greater degree of fresh (as opposed to processed) food products. (The reasons for this are the same that induced me to decide to stay in Mexico since 1974). Their experience and tastes are well enough developed to distinguish fine qualitative differences. As an organic farmer myself since 1968, I too can say that the difference between and organically grown and conventional product IS (and should be) evident in a palpable way upon sinking ones teeth (assuming one has teeth) into it. Lastly, many of the foods available are in fact organic in terms of the inputs they've received (or not received) and even when the "organic label" is absent (and this includes an area or two bypassed by "the organic community" yet consonant with the concept), people DO prefer them and literally put their money where their mouth is. So forget the hype - if that was true, what we're discussing would be simply a "fad". and I don't believe that is the case. > But unless you have a label informing you that > a product is indeed organic (ie, was grown under organic conditions) > you can't know for sure. This is why countries are scrambling to get > trustworthy certification, accreditation and labeling programs in > place. The label on an organic product is the only thing > "demonstrable" about it's quality. The above is simply a tribute to the sorry state of U.S. culture, where Homo Sapiens as consumer, justifies someone else's exploitation and usurpation of an intrinsically good and essential quality, for ends that instead of contributing to a greater and more universal value, are promulgated for the benefit of few instead of many, often in a fraudulent and illusory way. I hope you don't mind my posting this - I believe it to be of general interest and I'd be interested in the response. > Now, I have no doubt that "organic" foods coming out of Mexico are > either being regulated by the government They have to be, by law. And this is true for conventional as well as organic products. > or they are being labeled by > certification agencies recognized and established in other countries. > (For example, I see that the broccoli in the stores here in GA comes > from Mexico, but it is certified with QAI, a recognized international > organic certifier.) If the "organicness" of product flowing OUT of > Mexico is only assured by international certification agencies, then > this is only a matter between buyer and seller and the gov't isn't > involved. The government IS involved because the U.S. government requires that, and these crops are being grown for the export (i.e. U.S.) market. As for who certifies it, that depends on the buyer and that is how it should be. (However, if OFPA is implemented, the USDA will oversee the certifiers and that too may be well and good, although legitimate certifiers themselves may have the final word on that. What is NOT well and good is obligatory certification, since the nature of the event does not require it in many cases, infringes on the rights of the participants and makes organic products more expensive and less competitive with conventional ones . If the buyer - be he/she a distributor or end user, wants USDA certified organic - and all certified organic products sold in the U.S. will be USDA certified organic products if OFPA is implemented, he/she can specify that condition. Let it stand on it's own merit. > This may very well be the case for organic product going > INto Mexico as well. But I know that there ARE restrictions on > "health food" items coming into Mexico, Like what? > I just don't know if > "organic foods" fall in that catagory. > > But as I said before, I don't know if organic product IS going into > Mexico. I imagine that in the upper classes there is some demand (or > at least potential for it), and I also imagine that certain > manufactured/processed organic food products would be difficult to > supply in country. So there very well could be inflow of > organically labeled product, and the issue of whether or not it is > certifiably organic may be just between buyer and seller. The potential is there, if the quality difference is palpable. (Please accept that). But we are probably talking about the same U.S. export lines already big in Mexico; namely: Apples. Pears, Grapes, Dates and Grains (there may be others but those are the ones I'm aware of and it's only logical. You could add cherries to that and anything thing else palatable that doesn't do well here or hasn't been industrialized yet - like dates, which do well enough in the Baja Sur if good varieties were put in. U.S. Xmas trees are another big item, in December. > But, for > some reason, my bosses think that there might be some Mex. gov't > intervention in this regard (for example in EU countries, US > products have to go through a bunch of bureaucracy with the Ministry > of Ag before they are allowed to carry a claim of "organic") and so > they sent me to find out. And that's the story. Well, bureaucrats will be bureaucrats, but try to understand that in general, Mexico is a freer and more practical country than the U.S. (before jumping on my cage dear readers, I acknowledge a few areas that may still need a little improvement, but I've lived for over 25 years and get around - I know what I'm talking about), and I would NOT assume that any expense is going to be dedicated to an unnecessary process. > Unless I hear otherwise soon, I am prepared to conclude that the > Mexican gov't does not put any restrictions on or require any extra > measures for product carrying a label of "organic." No, don't conclude anything. Confirm it! And if you don't get results, feel free to call on me again, but (particularly) if you're getting paid to do this, I am not really in a position to do your legwork without being accredited with a fair participation in whatever benefits may result from our (including my) joint effort. > >Somebody is going to have to give it a shot. > > Go for it, Anita. If you need someone to get it set up for you, just let > > me know. > > You're very kind. If I were going to try to build an organic market > in Mexico, I would start with local producers of fresh produce and > move on from there. You would have to organize, educate and provide support for them, if you expect them to get involved. (CeDeCoR does that). > Once there is a market for fresh produce and > organic products that could be easily processed there (like juice > concentrate, canned tomatoes, cheese, etc.) then I would look for > international suppliers of the other stuff (or they would probably > come knocking on the door around then anyway). There may be some of > this going on already. I would NOT assume that processed foods are going to be a big thing in Mexico. The Mexican diet consists of a much higher percentage of fresh fruits and vegetables and the preparation of these in Mexican households receives much more attention, with more elaborate results than in U.S. households in general. I suggest you stick with products that are by nature life-giving. In that same vein, organic supplements for the health conscious - including physical culturists, could be big. > The last time I was in Mexico, which was > years ago, I was amazed at the number of vegetarian-health food > restaurants there. I bet a person could find out more about the > organic market by asking around in there. Anita, I travel around the entire country and know plenty of people that are involved with agriculture, organics, vegetarianism and health in general in Mexico and there is not of yet any major market for organic products. Meaning: Those organic crops now grown are exported, rather than offered on the national market. Any exceptions would be most likely to be first found in the big three - Mexico City, Guadalajara & Monterrey. Just to ground my point in fact, I just called Guadalajara and talked to a university student who lives in an upper middle class neighborhood, whose family is also well educated (father has a Ph.D.. in anthropology from the Sorbonne and is the major source in the world for organic sesame). She has seen NO organic products for sale (and knows perfectly well what they are). Her dad wasn't home (he may know of something in the planning stage there) but will no doubt call me back. I could do the same for friends in Mexico City & Monterrey but if I do, it'll be after 8 pm when the rates drop. > Thanks for responding. > Anita Sure, any time. And as I said, I could help get this (or other projects) going, at any point there's any serious offer, on either the research or the commercial end. > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address) Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412 6308 (direct) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx --------------1F69AF31E5FF34371E40AC76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A bit long - but this may interest some of you.

    Anita Graf (Staff) first wrote and I answered:

    Dear Mr. Hinds,

      ... you may be in
      a position to answer a question I have been pursuing...  I have
      been recently trying to get a handle on the current situation for US
      organic exports to several different countries, and have not been
      able to get any information about Mexico.  (In fact, I couldn't even
      find anyone in the Mex gov't that even knew what "organic" food is!)

    DH - Oficial federal regulations exist so you didn't talk to the right people.

      First, assuming that there IS a market for US organic food in Mexico,

    DH - The fact is, there isn't (hope you can read html text).  The official federal regulations that exist were developed for primarily for export purposes, in response to OFPA's mandating countries wishing to export organic foods to the U.S. to have a similar
    structure in place.  However, while the market for organics is as yet undeveloped (no supply makes demand unlikely - consumers won't ask for what they don't know and can't buy what isn't being offered).  The potential is there for the same
    reasons that made it happen elsewhere:  Noticeable eating  quality differences (compared to conventional products) and health considerations.  Low buying power will be the main problem, as things stand.

      can you tell me if there are any standards or organic-related
      procedures that such shipments would need to go through?

    DH - Commerce is an event that occurs between buyer and seller, mitigated by a legal structure that may or may not exist.  For food to be sold as organic (as distinct being being in fact organically grown), we can assume that people who are familiar
    with what organic food is elsewhere, will be involved.  This means that at present, governmental intervention will be minimal.

      I read about a new Mexican organic rule/regulation recently off the attache
      reports of the FAS (but again, have not had any luck contacting
      anyone listed on that report).

    DH - Like who? (were you trying to contact).

      I am not looking for information on what it takes to export regular
      foods (and here, I know that there's a slightly different path for a
      slew of differentiated food products), I just want to know if
      products which proport to be organic face any extra requirement upon
      entry to the Mexican market.

    Juridically, I doubt it.  As stated, the quality has got to be there - that's the principal issue, along with buying power.  You will have to begin with large towns and affluent neighborhoods.

      If you could help me this information, I would very much appreciate
      it.

    The next round:
    You wrote:
    >
    > Like who? (were you trying to contact).
    >
    Well, let's see.  I tried contacting the US Ag Trade Office (never
    got an answer -- the # I have for them is 525-202-0168, is this
    correct?),
    When Elaine Bohen was contracted by the US Embassy (where her husband worked) to represent the US Ag Trade Office some years back, she did so out of her home and that was her number.  However, the same fax number she used was also used later.  Try faxing 011 525 202 0528, but I can't guarantee it's still current.
    and I talked to at least 3 trade officials at SECOFI (I
    speak Spanish).
    Would someone outside the U.S. wanting to export organic food products to the U.S. need to talk to someone at the U.S. Dept. of Commerce, or someone at the USDA?

    You need to talk to someone at Sanidad Vegetal of the the SAGAR (Ag Secretariat).
     
    Try:  011 (525) 554-05-12 - Direccion General de Sanidad Vegetal
    or
    011 (525) 584-80-00 EXT. 126 - Direccion de Asuntos Internacionales

    once again, these may or may not be current - but that's who you need to talk to.

    > You still haven't told me just what it is you want to do.  Export organic
    > foods to Mexico?  Or do a study on it?  If it's the former, you main
    > things you need are a product and a buyer.  If it's the latter, there's
    > not a lot of precedent for it, as yet so there's not much out there in
    > the way of data.

    The latter.  I'm working on an informational study for a variety of
    entities, including the U of GA (where I am), the Econ Research
    Service of the USDA and the Wallace Institute.  Nothing of a
    practical nature is intended to occur YET!  I'm just trying to find
    out what is the situation faced by US exporters of organic to various
    countries, including Mexico.

    > But everyone (except the one's you talked to,  evidently)

    Evidently!!

    > already knows what organic food is.  The disposition is
    > there.  But the product had better be good - demonstrably better than the
    > conventional equivilent.

    I don't see why it would have to be "demonstrably" better (ie,
    prettier, tastier, or easier to handle) since that isn't a condition
    for organic in any other country.  Organic ag represents a certain
    set of *production pracitices* not a final product.  Most people who
    believe in organic ag are not only doing so out of support for the
    ecology of the planet, but because they have faith that the final
    product is different.

    It's not just faith.  And faith itself is strongest when founded on a physical reality (although some may disagree).  And even though the essence of an organism (including fruits and vegetables) can transcend time and space, at some given moment in time and space it will take form.  In this particular case, it happens that Mexicans in general are more skeptical by nature and/or experience of "certified claims".  In fact, Mexico is a revolutionary country, and proudly so.  Authority must be earned, it's not gratuitous or fatuous.  Furthermore, the Mexican diet is made up to a MUCH greater degree of fresh (as opposed to processed) food products.  (The reasons for this are the same that induced me to decide to stay in Mexico since 1974).  Their experience and tastes are well enough developed to distinguish fine qualitative differences.

    As an organic farmer myself since 1968, I too can say that the difference between and organically grown and conventional product IS (and should be) evident in a palpable way upon sinking ones teeth (assuming one has teeth) into it.  Lastly, many of the foods available are in fact organic in terms of the inputs they've received (or not received) and even when the "organic label" is absent (and this includes an area or two bypassed by "the organic community" yet consonant with the concept), people DO prefer them and literally put their money where their mouth is.  So forget the hype - if that was true, what we're discussing would be simply a "fad". and I don't believe that is the case.

    But unless you have a label informing you that
    a product is indeed organic (ie, was grown under organic conditions)
    you can't know for sure.  This is why countries are scrambling to get
    trustworthy certification, accreditation and labeling programs in
    place.  The label on an organic product is the only thing
    "demonstrable" about it's quality.
    The above is simply a tribute to the sorry state of U.S. culture, where Homo Sapiens as consumer, justifies someone else's exploitation and usurpation of an intrinsically good and essential quality, for ends that instead of contributing to a greater and more universal value, are promulgated for the benefit of few instead of many, often in a fraudulent and illusory way.  I hope you don't mind my posting this - I believe it to be of general interest and I'd be interested in the response.
    Now, I have no doubt that "organic" foods coming out of Mexico are
    either being regulated by the government
    They have to be, by law.  And this is true for conventional as well as organic products.
    or they are being labeled by
    certification agencies recognized and established in other countries.
    (For example, I see that the broccoli in the stores here in GA comes
    from Mexico, but it is certified with QAI, a recognized international
    organic certifier.)  If the "organicness" of product flowing OUT of
    Mexico is only assured by international certification agencies, then
    this is only a matter between buyer and seller and the gov't isn't
    involved.
    The government IS involved because the U.S. government requires that, and these crops are being grown for the export (i.e. U.S.) market.  As for who certifies it, that depends on the buyer and that is how it should be.  (However, if OFPA is implemented, the USDA will oversee the certifiers and that too may be well and good, although legitimate certifiers themselves may have the final word on that.  What is NOT well and good is obligatory certification, since the nature of the event does not require it in many cases, infringes on the rights of the participants and makes organic products more expensive and  less competitive with conventional ones .  If the buyer - be he/she a distributor or end user, wants USDA certified organic - and all certified organic products sold in the U.S. will be USDA certified organic products if OFPA is implemented, he/she can specify that condition.  Let it stand on it's own merit.
    This may very well be the case for organic product going
    INto Mexico as well.  But I know that  there ARE restrictions on
    "health food" items coming into Mexico,
    Like what?
    I just don't know if
    "organic foods" fall in that catagory.

    But as I said before, I don't know if organic product IS going into
    Mexico.  I imagine that in the upper classes there is some demand (or
    at least potential for it), and I also imagine that certain
    manufactured/processed organic food products would be difficult to
    supply  in country.  So there very well could be inflow of
    organically labeled product, and the issue of whether or not it is
    certifiably organic may be just between buyer and seller.

    The potential is there, if the quality difference is palpable.  (Please accept that).  But we are probably talking about the same U.S. export lines already big in Mexico; namely:  Apples. Pears, Grapes, Dates and Grains (there may be others but those are the ones I'm aware of and it's only logical.  You could add cherries to that and anything thing else palatable that doesn't do well here or hasn't been industrialized yet - like dates, which do well enough in the Baja Sur if good varieties were put in.  U.S. Xmas trees are another big item, in December.
    But, for
    some reason, my bosses think that there might be some Mex. gov't
    intervention in this regard (for example in EU countries, US
    products have to go through a bunch of bureaucracy with the Ministry
    of Ag before they are allowed to carry a claim of "organic") and so
    they sent me to find out.  And that's the story.
    Well, bureaucrats will be bureaucrats, but try to understand that in general, Mexico is a freer and more practical country than the U.S. (before jumping on my cage dear readers, I acknowledge a few areas that may still need a little improvement,  but I've lived for over 25 years and get around - I know what I'm talking about), and I would NOT assume that any expense is going to be dedicated to an unnecessary process.
    Unless I hear otherwise soon, I am prepared to conclude that the
    Mexican gov't does not put any restrictions on or require any extra
    measures for product carrying a label of "organic."
    No, don't conclude anything.  Confirm it!  And if you don't get results, feel free to call on me again, but (particularly) if you're getting paid to do this, I am not really in a position to do your legwork without being accredited with a fair participation in whatever benefits may result from our (including my) joint effort.
    >Somebody is going to have to give it a shot.
    > Go for it, Anita.  If you need someone to get it set up for you, just let
    > me know.

    You're very kind.  If I were going to try to build an organic market
    in Mexico, I would start with local producers of fresh produce and
    move on from there.

    You would have to organize, educate and provide support for them, if you expect them to get involved.  (CeDeCoR does that).
    Once there is a market for fresh produce and
    organic products that could be easily processed there (like juice
    concentrate, canned tomatoes, cheese, etc.) then I would look for
    international suppliers of the other stuff (or they would probably
    come knocking on the door around then anyway).  There may be some of
    this going on already.
    I would NOT assume that processed foods are going to be a big thing in Mexico.  The Mexican diet consists of a much higher percentage of fresh fruits and vegetables and the preparation of these in Mexican households receives much more attention, with more elaborate results than in U.S. households in general.  I suggest you stick with products that are by nature life-giving.  In that same vein, organic supplements for the health conscious - including physical culturists, could be big.
    The last time I was in Mexico, which was
    years ago, I was amazed at the number of vegetarian-health food
    restaurants there.  I bet a person could find out more about the
    organic market by asking around in there.
    Anita, I travel around the entire country and know plenty of people that are involved with agriculture, organics, vegetarianism and health in general in Mexico and there is not of yet any major market for organic products.  Meaning:  Those organic crops now grown are exported, rather than offered on the national market.  Any exceptions would be most likely to be first found in the big three - Mexico City, Guadalajara & Monterrey.

    Just to ground my point in fact, I just called Guadalajara and talked to a university student who lives in an upper middle class neighborhood, whose family is also well educated (father has a Ph.D.. in anthropology from the Sorbonne and is the major source in the world for organic sesame).  She has seen NO organic products for sale (and knows perfectly well what they are).  Her dad wasn't home (he may know of something in the planning stage there) but will no doubt call me back.  I could do the same for friends in Mexico City & Monterrey but if I do, it'll be after 8 pm when the rates drop.

    Thanks for responding.
    Anita
    Sure, any time.  And as I said, I could help get this (or other projects) going, at any point there's any serious offer, on either the research or the commercial end.
    Anita Graf
    313-F Conner Hall
    Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics
    University of Georgia
    Athens, GA  30602-7509
    (706) 542-1915 phone
    (706) 542-0739 fax
    agraf@agecon.uga.edu
     --

    Douglas M. Hinds, Director General
    Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR)
    (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit)
    Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address)
    Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address)
    Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO
    U.S. Voice Mailbox:  1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked)
    U.S. Fax Mailbox:  1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked)
    Tel. & Fax:  011 523 412 6308 (direct)
    e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx
      --------------1F69AF31E5FF34371E40AC76-- --------------B0CE8AFE3593ABD694EEFAA9-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 23:31:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08317 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA00263 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:45:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19215 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA24722 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:46:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199904130146.VAA24722@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: strawberry management To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:46:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 402 Last spring I planted 1000 strawberry plants in rows 36" apart. I mulched between and around quite heavily with hay and picked the blossoms off. Now the plants are out of bounds. The careful observer can see the rows, but they have really spread. Is this a problem? What should I do to keep them healthy and productive for this season? AFter that what should I do? Till them in? Thanks ahead of time. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 12 23:33:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08353 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA04172 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:48:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA13271 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15804 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (root@rac1.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.141]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id WAA14379; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id WAA18103; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id WAA18099; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:07:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac1.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:07:25 -0400 (EDT) From: joel b gruver To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu cc: rw17@umail.umd.edu Subject: total C inputs to soil Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 403 Hello to all.. I recently posted a query to SANET concerning the total C inputs to soil resulting from cropping systems... I received very little response... but I have recently come across an article discussing net crop productivity and C partitioning that I think may be of interest to some of you... Buyanovsky, G.A. and G. H. Wagner. 1986. Post-harvest residue input to cropland. Plant and Soil 93:57-65. They evaluated corn, wheat and soybean grain systems in Missouri for three years and determined the following total net annual drymatter production to grain ratios: Corn = 3.86 Wheat = 5.5 +/- 0.8 Soybeans = 4.52 +/- 1.21 They also presented the following root to shoot carbon ratios: wheat root:shoot = 154:218 g C/m2 soybean root:shoot = 126:217 g C/m2 corn root:shoot = 340:581 g C/m2 They estimated that 200+ g C/m2 of rhizodeposition (in addition to root biomass) probably occured in their wheat system... Just some food for thought for those trying to understand the broader impacts of crop production on carbon cycling... Joel Gruver U of MD Soil Quality Research To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 01:13:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA10452 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA24020 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:17:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA23777 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:16:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Bagelhole1@aol.com Received: from Bagelhole1@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id 7LFTa20578 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <574205cd.24441eee@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:15:42 EDT Subject: Long talk about organic farming in Mexico/ short version To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Reply-To: Bagelhole1@aol.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 404 > You're very kind. If I were going to try to build an organic market > in Mexico, I would start with local producers of fresh produce and > move on from there. You would have to organize, educate and provide support for them, if you expect them to get involved. (CeDeCoR does that). > Once there is a market for fresh produce and > organic products that could be easily processed there (like juice > concentrate, canned tomatoes, cheese, etc.) then I would look for > international suppliers of the other stuff (or they would probably > come knocking on the door around then anyway). There may be some of > this going on already. First of all, I have a friend, a gringo, who grows and sells organic produce in Patscuaro, Mexico in Michoagan. Many of the small farmers grow organically, though not all of them. Just because, chemicals are not really necessary. He harvests them each week and takes them into the market, takes it out of his trucks and sells them to whoever is walking by. Many of the lovely older Indian women were attracted to his beautiful produce and bought them. Mexico is so poor, you wouldn't want to think of exporting organics into Mexico, that would be too unrealistic. But you can help the small farmer who is slowly getting crushed by the advent of agribusiness, with organic seeds. Sometimes just pipe for watering would help a lot. Kind regards, Bagelhole1 PS. visit my new site http://bagelhole.hypermart.net/ all about low-tech, sustainable ideas to help individual become self-sustainable as well as their neighborhoods. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 02:26:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA11464 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 02:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA28123 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:16:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA27840 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp43-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.43]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA13265; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:14:46 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , "sanet" Subject: RE: slugs, snails Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:25:31 +1000 Message-ID: <000601be856e$0cafd7e0$2b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <37121947.52AC8323@epix.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 405 I do know several local organic farmers growing leaf vegetables who have had success with well-trained ducks. It is critical that the ducks be trained as tiny tots, and that they [a] are locked up at night and [b] get a full grain ration in the morning before [c] being turned out among the vegetables to hunt down slugs and snails. It's got to be a disciplined regime - but then, so is the vegetable growing business, I guess. Dennis Steve wrote: >I had a guy from California contact me regarding slug/snail problems he was having in growing oriental veggies. Organic methods are preferred but suggestions with other strategies are welcome. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 02:27:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA11476 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 02:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA28352 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:17:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA28209 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA18355 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([148.233.240.113]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:16:00 -0500 Message-ID: <3712DAAF.39833A98@acnet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:48:31 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, "'Grace J Gershuny'" , "'Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison'" Subject: Re: Pineapple prophets References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C7FFC0AB@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 406 Wilson, Dale wrote: > Michel and Grace, > > Something has been bothering me for a couple weeks, about the relationship > between free markets and sustainability. This thread on pineapple is a good > example to talk about it. Sorry Dale, I disagree. This thread is not a good example and represents a new low for Michele. She is often on target but lost touch on this one - but we all have bad days (my apologies to you too Michele, and I know you'll appreciate my candor), and that post was embarrassingly out of touch - to the degree that my answer intentionally avoided disagreeing with her. I instead tried to stress that in this practical world we live in there are often trade offs. Want an example? (Hopefully, no one will misunderstand). Abortion. Abortion can't be good. But neither can unwanted children, uncared for children, children living in poverty, abused children, or criminalizing a difficult but PERHAPS the "lesser of available evils" choice made by a woman who already has more responsibility than she can handle . Applied to pineapple, this logic recognizes that: It is true - pineapple that flowers naturally is best. No doubt about it. What is NOT so clear is that pineapple that didn't flower naturally therefore, shouldn't be grown; or that people who want to eat during months it doesn't flower naturally are titillating themselves, or that pineapple growers should all harvest together, with the devastating economic consequences that this brings them. If we extend the logic that all intervention is wrong, the conclusions are: Don't irrigate! Don't fertilize! Let it all happen by itself (maybe that's how the woman above became pregnant). The point is, where do you draw the line? This is exactly what "organic certification" is all about, and I think the same can be said for sanet: Borderline decisions have to be made, and made constructively. Grace already wants to obligate organic certification. Will she outlaw pineapple whose flowering was induced next? How will she take this thread? will she take it to heart, constructively? I hope so, and am sure that even Grace will eventually learn humility and that she too will become a constructive influence, just as they tried to teach her to do at Goddard, all along. Sorry girls, but you posture really doesn't help - it's much too far from the field and too entrenched in an ivory tower on the one hand and bureaucratic arrogance on the other (Grace didn't even bother to reply to my response to her letter to "The Economist" magazine). Dale did what I didn't do - he took their posts on this issue seriously. I expect better from Misha and am sure next time she'll be back on target. I mean this constructively and expect the same from all sides. And I'm happy to say that I now find Dale's contributions to be uniformly well thought out and constructive, which wasn't always the case, some time ago. And that's what counts - moving in the right direction - great things could come from this whole forum, if the disposition to collaborate is there and applied to the real world. To me, the bottom line is, biological systems provide sustenance and sustainability. Understanding and respecting that is a good basis for any biological endeavor such as farming - and being a human being. When we look for ways to extend the envelope in specific ways, I thinks it's important to share any pertinent information or perspective constructively related to it. In short, Michele blew it but so what - let's let her reset her own compass and get on with it. BTW, I want to thank Dale publicly for the constructive and insightful suggestions he provided privately in relation to the stated problem: How to induce flowering in pineapple, without resorting to the use synthetic substances. To me it goes without saying (but here I'll say it), that if the plant isn't really ready, it's not going to flower anyway - and in fact, that's just how it is. Induced flowering fails when conditions aren't favorable. Perhaps there's just as much hubris present in "returning the pineapple to its status as a seasonal fruit" as in extending the seasonal envelope using (admittedly) only relatively natural means. Also BTW: These posts evidently get around - from Hawaii (and the U. of H.) came anecdotal info re the use of ripe pineapple chucks to induce flowering in years past. I don't eat artificially ripened bananas, but I do sometimes put a few ripe ones in with green bananas during cold weather, in a cardboard box lined with newspaper. I also don't cut bunches of green bananas, I wait until at least one banana is getting yellow before cutting the bunch, and I don't ship pineapple that was cut green or artificially field ripened. (In other words, to me - induced flowering is a necessary evil, but I won't tolerate induced ripening, even in pineapple that isn't organically grown. I've tried it and found that the quality takes a BIG hit and therefore I felt justified in following my instinct and have insisted on natural field ripening. Do you think the big three do that? No - not even on the "jet fresh" fruit. I have also thought: "Anyone who really cares about eating ripe pineapple should live where it grows, grow it himself and pick it ripe". I have also thought "Isn't that a bit selfish and unfair"? And answered "Yes". > Michele wrote: > The whole agricultural system (incl. permaculture) human management > through and through. Michele, when it's done right that's called husbandry. Dale's point is valid - agriculture represents a series of choices carried out by human beings that tend to favor certain qualities over others - like plants that bear fruit over those that don't, or fruit with certain characteristics over others. These choices represent the values held by those that made them. I myself do not agree with all of them. For one thing, I spit out seeds. Meaning, I do not buy or eat seedless grapes or grapefruit. Some pineapples have seeds, but commercial varieties are propagated vegetatively and have few or none. But since they're monocotyledons, and there is no grafting involved (which is a damn sight worse), we look the other way on that for now. In short: What we need are guidelines that are helpful when choices must be made. That's what agriculture and this forum are about. We masculine people - and quite a few females, make decisions and get into things. Get it? Let's all try to make intelligent ones. Nothing more follows. > > Welllllll. Perhaps aligning our tastes and demands with what the > > plant can provide would be reasonable. And returning the pineapple to > > its status as a seasonal fruit. > > All our crop plants have been highly manipulated to produce products that we > like to eat. And not only the cultivar, but the whole system. The whole > agricultural system (incl. permaculture) is laced with human management > through and through. It seems like the logical conclusion of your > quietistic line of reasoning would be foraging in wild lands and nothing > more. > > > I.e., letting consumer demand and markets (another form of exclusive > > focus on profits) drive everything is a short-sighted strategy. > > I would venture that the driver is simply the desire for pineapple. I don't > think the desire for nice fruit is a product of culture. > > > It seems to me that one of the lessons of organic production should > > be to return consumers to some realism about where food comes from, > > rather than trying to provide them with all the luxuries to which > > they have become accustomed... > > So, "organic" production is going to deliver the natural law commandments? > Are you going to be the prophet? > > > ...in the industrial food system. > > Suppose I devise a practical, harmless method to induce flowering in > pineapple (this was done long ago, BTW). Does that make me part of the > "industrial food system"? Who are you to tell me or my customers that we > shouldn't eat pineapple outside of the (non-human-manipulated) season? Why > is this so political? (puritanical?) > > Your vision of natural law fails to accomodate human creativity. > > > I don't see how we in sustag/orgag can compete with the > > industrial food system in terms of titillating people's > > consumer desires, then providing products for that. > > A fully ripe fresh pineapple will titillate almost anyones consumer desire, > and THAT'S OKAY! > > > But I do think that we can help give them what they really > > need and want. Like healthy food and reconnection with the > > seasons. > > So I guess you are volunteering to be prophet and teacher to tell us what we > should want. Doggone it, I just want pineapple! > > Misha, I am not trying to ridicule you, but to whittle down to the real > issues. The more I look at your words the more I think these are freedom > and autonomy. > > Suppose I want to start a company and enter the capitalist realm. This is > risky and difficult, but let's say I am hugely successful, and I produce new > varieties of melon that people really like. Or I write brilliant and useful > computer programs, or learn to produce organic pineapple out of season. > What is wrong with my profiting from this? > > Grace wrote privately: > > What consumers want is not a law of nature, but is a product of > > intense manipulation. When the demands of the market run counter > > to ecological and health demands, something is wrong. > > My hypothetical products are examples, not of fighting nature, or violating > natural law, but of learning to navigate the intricacies of natural systems. > In the case of pineapple, it is a matter of manipulating floral induction > using naturally occuring hormones. It is not as ecologically pervasive a > manipulation as the pineapple production system itself. Sure, all these > things should be evaluated for safety, but that is apparently not the issue > you take with the practice of treating pineapples with ethylene. > > Why should I adhere to your interpretation of natural law? > > Dale Wilson > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 02:29:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA11497 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 02:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA20326 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:38:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA20073 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([148.233.240.114]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:37:29 -0500 Message-ID: <3712E624.A859ACB4@acnet.net> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:37:26 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bagelhole1@aol.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Long talk about organic farming in Mexico/ short version References: <574205cd.24441eee@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 407 Hi Tom, (I got that name off your website - Tom Bagelhole - that's very unusual. I see you are Bagelhole1 How many Bagelholes are there? Is the a Mrs. Bagelhole and any little Bagelholes)? About exporting organic products to Mexico - I believe the lady was taking about certified organic products. I agree with you that Patzcuaro might not be the best place to start. What your friend is doing sounds very positive, but at this point in time my own work is a little more institutional that it once was, when I lived in places a lot farther off the beaten path than Cd. Guzman or Lake Patzcuaro or even the Papaloapan basin, where we're working with pineapple and banana growers at present. I like your website, partiicularly your "sustaining creationZ". And thanks for your post. D.H.. Bagelhole1@aol.com wrote: > > You're very kind. If I were going to try to build an organic market > > in Mexico, I would start with local producers of fresh produce and > > move on from there. > > You would have to organize, educate and provide support for them, if you > expect them to get involved. (CeDeCoR does that). > > > Once there is a market for fresh produce and > > organic products that could be easily processed there (like juice > > concentrate, canned tomatoes, cheese, etc.) then I would look for > > international suppliers of the other stuff (or they would probably > > come knocking on the door around then anyway). There may be some of > > this going on already. > First of all, I have a friend, a gringo, who grows and sells organic produce > in Patscuaro, Mexico in Michoagan. Many of the small farmers grow > organically, though not all of them. Just because, chemicals are not really > necessary. He harvests them each week and takes them into the market, takes > it out of his trucks and sells them to whoever is walking by. Many of the > lovely older Indian women were attracted to his beautiful produce and bought > them. > > Mexico is so poor, you wouldn't want to think of exporting organics into > Mexico, that would be too unrealistic. But you can help the small farmer who > is slowly getting crushed by the advent of agribusiness, with organic seeds. > Sometimes just pipe for watering would help a lot. > > > Kind regards, > > Bagelhole1 > PS. visit my new site HREF="http://bagelhole.hypermart.net/">http://bagelhole.hypermart.net/ > all about low-tech, sustainable ideas to help individual become > self-sustainable as well as their neighborhoods. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address) Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412 6308 (direct) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, dhinds@ucol.mx, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 05:00:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA12561 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA02248 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:08:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA02243 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.196] (term6-4.vta.west.net [205.254.241.196]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6314D249F1; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 4 (Low) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:07:52 -0700 To: , From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: ACTION ALERT: URGE USDA TO SUPPORT EPA'S PLANT-PESTICIDE RULES Cc: pabhyankar@ucsusa.org Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 408 Forward from The Gene Exchange, published by the Union of Concerned Scientists: ACTION ALERT: URGE USDA TO SUPPORT EPA'S PLANT- PESTICIDE RULES Four years ago, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) proposed rules that would regulate the commercial uses of crops genetically engineered to produce their own pesticides, including Bt insecticidal crops. Finally, after years of deliberation, the Agency has but one major administrative hurdle remaining before the final revised rules can be published. The White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) has to sign off-as it does on all major administration actions. But, even at this late stage, the rules are vulnerable. A small group of academic scientists continues to try to weaken the rules. Their concerns about "overregulation" are not widely shared, even by the biotech industry. But the scientists continue to delay the process. They have had ample opportunity to air their concerns both to Congress and the Agency-it is time for the government to act. EPA needs help if it is to clear the final hurdle. That's where USDA comes in. Strong support from the Department of Agriculture is critical to gaining OMB's go ahead. Write to Dan Glickman, the Secretary of Agriculture, and tell him to weigh in at OMB on behalf of EPA's plant- pesticide rules. Consider making these points in your own words: --Engineered pesticidal crops pose risks like the loss of Bt and alteration of soil ecosystems and should be regulated. --The plant-pesticide rules are critical to the regulation of Bt crops. Without them, EPA may not have the authority in the future to oversee Bt crops or require resistance management plans. --The plant-pesticide rules, which fill a major gap in the US regulatory framework for biotechnology, are long overdue. It has been 14 years since the federal government first proposed a regulatory scheme for biotechnology. Write to: The Honorable Dan Glickman, Secretary US Department of Agriculture 14th St. and Independence Ave., SW Washington, DC 20250 Fax: 202-720-2166 The Gene Exchange is published by the Union of Concerned Scientists. Permission to use information from the newsletter is granted in advance. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 09:41:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA15923 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA03645 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:32:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03611 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26886>; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:32:06 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Kevin Smyth cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Apr13.073206cdt.26886@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:31:03 -0500 Subject: Re: strawberry management Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 409 Northern berry growers such as yourself can keep a productive bed going for up to 10 years using a Canadian mngmt system. The system is described in some detail in: "The Best of Organic Gardening" edited by Mike McGrath vol 2 I think. Mike devoted an entire chaper to the system of thinning & mid-summer mowing. Let me know if you can't find it in your library Kevin Smyth on 04/12/99 08:46:08 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: Subject: strawberry management Last spring I planted 1000 strawberry plants in rows 36" apart. I mulched between and around quite heavily with hay and picked the blossoms off. Now the plants are out of bounds. The careful observer can see the rows, but they have really spread. Is this a problem? What should I do to keep them healthy and productive for this season? AFter that what should I do? Till them in? Thanks ahead of time. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 10:22:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16896 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA03807 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:25:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03753 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:25:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00B389D4@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 9:25:09 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 13 Apr 99 09:25:18 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 13 Apr 99 09:25:12 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:25:06 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: slugs & snails In-reply-to: <199904122210.SAA20661@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <27FA64A1E87@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 410 > Sanet, > I had a guy from California contact me regarding slug/snail problems he > was having in growing oriental veggies. Organic methods are preferred > but suggestions with other strategies are welcome. > > Steve Groff I hope you get lots of responses on this, but here's a start. The organic methods I know about are 1) using wood ash as it cuts the bodies of the offending slugs/snails (but will obviously need to be reapplied if it rains and therefore would be unsuitable with overhead watering) and 2) using traps like beer bottles with some beer inside which lures the creatures in and then they can't get out. Again, the size of the guy's operation might make this not so desirable. But maybe some of the principles could be used in different ways. Live ducks might also be a help. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 10:37:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18473 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11542 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:35:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11522 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVD1WCR>; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:38:50 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'KevinSmyth'" Subject: RE: allelopathic effect of oats Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:38:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 411 Kevin, > > Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:43:19 -0400 (EDT) > From: Kevin Smyth > Subject: allelopathic effect of oats > > friends - how worried should I be about planting vegetable seeds this > spring into winter killed oats? I have heard oats have an allelopathic > effect on some plants and may hinder germination. Some things > I planted are > not germinating and I wonder if it's the oats, or just plain bad luck. > > Kevin Smyth > ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu > Oats have been shown to hinder germination of some vegetable crops. The recent SAN publication, Managing Cover Crops Profitably, 2nd Edition, says the following about this specific topic: "Allelopathic (naturally occurring herbicidal) compounds in oat roots and residue can hinder weed growth for a few weeks. It also can slow germination or root growth of some subsequent crops, such as lettuce, cress, timothy, rice, wheat and peas. You can minimize this effect by waiting three weeks after oat incorporation before seeding a susceptible crop, or by following with an alternate crop." This is Andy again: Allelopathy is a complex topic. There are indications that the growth stage of the allelopathic crop influences the effects, too. Add in weather variables, particularly rainfall and temperature, and we end up not being able to predict the effects very well at all... Excerpts of Managing Crops Profitably can be found at http://www.sare.org/san/mccp2/ You can order the 212-page book for $19. Make your check or purchase order payable to Sustainable Agriculture Publications and mail to: Sustainable Agriculture Publications Hills Building, Room 10 University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405-0082 Shipping in the U.S., Canada and Mexico included except on rush orders. For orders sent outside of North America, please add $6.00 for the first book and $2.50 for each additional book. Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 10:55:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18879 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16106 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:47:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16061 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00B390A9@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 9:47:03 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 13 Apr 99 09:47:13 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 13 Apr 99 09:47:07 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:47:02 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: natural law prophets In-reply-to: <199904130007.UAA06602@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <28003D12C5A@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 412 > All our crop plants have been highly manipulated to produce products that we > like to eat. And not only the cultivar, but the whole system. The whole > agricultural system (incl. permaculture) is laced with human management > through and through. It seems like the logical conclusion of your > quietistic line of reasoning would be foraging in wild lands and nothing > more. > > > I.e., letting consumer demand and markets (another form of exclusive > > focus on profits) drive everything is a short-sighted strategy. > > I would venture that the driver is simply the desire for pineapple. I don't > think the desire for nice fruit is a product of culture. > > > It seems to me that one of the lessons of organic production should > > be to return consumers to some realism about where food comes from, > > rather than trying to provide them with all the luxuries to which > > they have become accustomed... > > So, "organic" production is going to deliver the natural law commandments? > Are you going to be the prophet? > > > ...in the industrial food system. Hi Dale, I just wanted to say that although Misha and others may have taken the pineapple example a little too far, I understood something different from their argument that consumers should "know where [and when] food comes from." By participating in agriculture, we cannot do away with human intervention, but we can own up to some powerful realities. Like tomatoes don't grow or bear in the winter. Zuccini too belongs to the summer. Brassicas, however, belong to the cool season (like winter in California). The only way to eat fresh zuccini, tomatoes, and peppers in the winter is to grow them in greenhouses and/or transport them over vast distances. Not only does this produce not have the same nutritional/vitality value by the time it gets to the consumer, but it involves huge costs to society (pollution and use of non renuable fossil fuels) which I think most would recognize are not accounted for in this economic system (therefore the proper supply/demand signals necessary to guide capitalism aren't accurate). It isn't just that consumers have become "spoiled" (they have), but they have become completely ignorant of the workings of agriculture and nature. Hardly anyone lives on farms anymore or even has a home garden, and some people probably think hamburger grows in styrofoam packets on hamburger trees. I would just like to say that I think there is something REALLY worthwhile in eating and living within the season of your corner of the earth -- something that goes beyond economics or Madison Ave., something that I don't even need to defend with statistical models or citatations. Hmmph! Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 11:30:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19775 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25829 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:05:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25822 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:05:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP164.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.100]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA07856 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37134F7E.67F1B38A@sprintmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:06:55 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: slugs & snails Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 413 Steve, I've had the best results from changing the habitat to discourage slugs. This meant removing areas where they can hide during the day- moist, shaded areas. Specifically, boards and large rocks, leaf mulch, keeping areas around crops mowed short. Knowing where they hide during the day be used to trap them. BTW, I read some years ago about a gardener who used beer traps. He figured that he was luring slugs from everyone else's garden to his. Kind of like pheromone traps for Japanese beetles. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 11:50:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20429 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13473 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:36:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13442 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06692 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3) id KAA14554; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:32:30 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;371355EE.CDD8.0810.000] Content-Identifier: Re: Pineapple pr UA-Content-Id: Re: Pineapple pr Autoforwarded: FALSE X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 8:50:00 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 8:50:00 -0400 From: Grace J Gershuny Subject: Re: Pineapple prophets -Reply To: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested), WILSONDO@phibred.com (Receipt Notification Requested) Cc: Grace_J.Gershuny@usda.gov (Receipt Notification Requested), mgs@aae.wisc.edu (Receipt Notification Requested), sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <371355EE.CDD8.0810.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-p2)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 414 I am snipping one piece of Mr. Hinds' diatribe as an example of an unwarranted (and, for what it's worth, inaccurate) personal attack that degrades the discussion. I will not be baited, and my silence is a reflection only of that. Grace Gershuny Douglas Hinds wrote: ...Grace already wants to obligate organic certification. Will she outlaw pineapple whose flowering was induced next? How will she take this thread? will she take it to heart, constructively? I hope so, and am sure that even Grace will eventually learn humility and that she too will become a constructive influence, just as they tried to teach her to do at Goddard, all along. Sorry girls, but you posture really doesn't help - it's much too far from the field and too entrenched in an ivory tower on the one hand and bureaucratic arrogance on the other (Grace didn't even bother to reply to my response to her letter to "The Economist" magazine). To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 11:59:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20608 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16341 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:45:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16305 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:45:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVD1WK5>; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:48:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Dan Worley Absence; subscription to GE News Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:48:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 415 I am sending this for Dan Worley. It includes information about electronic subscription to GE News, which he will not be forwarding to sanet for a while. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Worley [mailto:dan.worley@mindless.com] Sent: Saturday, April 10, 1999 7:33 AM To: SAN@nal.usda.gov Subject: Absence Due to some personal commitments of time and energy which will require my intermittent absence from my home base for the next several days or weeks, I will not be participating in Sanet activities nor will I be posting copies of the GE News until my return. Those interested in the News may subscribe direct (see below for instructions). I will be placing my Sanet subscription on hold for now and will restart it upon my full return. I will be checking my personal mail box from time to time, but it may overflow, depending on how often I can get to it. INSTRUCTIONS FOR SUBSCRIBING TO GE News: To subscribe to our genetic engineering news service, send an e-mail message to: rwolfson@concentric.net and write 'Subscribe GE' in the subject heading ================================= Richard Wolfson, PhD Consumer Right to Know Campaign, for Mandatory Labelling and Long-term Testing of all Genetically Engineered Foods, 500 Wilbrod Street Ottawa, ON Canada K1N 6N2 tel. 613-565-8517 fax. 613-565-1596 email: rwolfson@concentric.net Our website, http://www.natural-law.ca/genetic/geindex.html contains more information on genetic engineering as well as previous genetic engineering news items. Subscription fee to genetic engineering news is $35 for 12 months, payable to "BanGEF" and mailed to the above address. Or see website for details. ======================================== --Dan in Sunny Puerto Rico-- dan.worley@mindless.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 12:02:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20673 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27652 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:06:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27556 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA36630 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:06:04 -0500 Message-ID: <37135D39.CCC1E9C1@missouri.edu> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:05:29 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson Organization: University of Missouri X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Seasonality Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 416 Dale and Douglas: If you want to live in the international trade world and think farmers and rural communities around the world can survive and prosper in that context, fine. A few of them can, and some farmers and communities are doing wonderfully in the dominant food system. I'm glad, however, that people like Misha can take your "constructive" criticism, Douglas, and not be fazed by it. For many of the people I work with in both inner cities and rural areas, the global organization of the food and agriculture system has done nothing but take away their livelihoods and their access to good wholesome food. Don't call Misha and others like us some "ivory tower" academics because believe me we are out there working with farmers and consumers every single day, and we are trying to understand what works and what doesn't work. Seasonality can be an important function in reestablishing community-based food systems. It can help people get in touch with how a basic necessity of life is produced and consumed. It can help farmers in places like the Midwest compete within a global food system that externalizes environmental and social costs of year-round production. It can help farmers and eaters build the ties that make communities vital, vibrant, and viable. Of course, seasonality isn't the only thing, but rather a part of revisioning and reestablishing what a food system rooted in place and community can be. If you think that's pie in the sky, fine. However, don't tell that to the farmers, rural communities, and eaters in both rural and urban areas that are seeking to change the food system and being successful. If you want to know how successful these endeavors can be -- in terms of quality of life as well as economic viability -- you can ask people in the Iowa Network for Community Agriculture, the Kansas City Food Circle, the MACSAC coalition, the Just Food organization in New York City and on and on. Or ask the individual farmers and eaters who are involved in these projects. And don't tell me these alternatives are so small they are insignificant. They are very significant for the people who are participating in them and we are learning every day what kinds of alternatives to a dominant system work and what kinds don't do as well. That's not ivory tower -- that's action at the local level. Mary -- Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. Network Coordinator Food Circles Networking Project University of Missouri Outreach and Extension Department of Rural Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 Tele: 573-882-7463 Fax: 573-882-1473 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 12:20:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA21251 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA05350 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:20:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (mail.gov.pe.ca [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA05345 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:16:39 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:17:14 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, gentech@gen.free.de, colibri@west.net Cc: pabhyankar@ucsusa.org Subject: Re: ACTION ALERT: URGE USDA TO SUPPORT EPA'S PLANT-PESTICIDE RULES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 417 I think an even better reason to support oversight/regulation of engineered plant pesticides is that someone might put something really toxic into a plant in order to protect it from bugs. The big concern with Bt isn't that it might hurt people, but that may not be true of the next "plant pesticide" that comes out of the lab. Of course, this still begs the question of where or why we draw the line between inherent or bred-in chemical protectorants (like alkaloids in potatoes and rhubarb) vs those that have been put there via GE.... BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 13:42:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00462 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09843 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09601 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08981 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([148.233.240.108]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:38:14 -0500 Message-ID: <3713801B.8E89735@acnet.net> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:34:19 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Grace J Gershuny CC: Receipt Notification Requested , Receipt Notification Requested , Receipt Notification Requested , Receipt Notification Requested Subject: Re: Pineapple prophets -Reply References: <371355EE.CDD8.0810.000@MHS> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------81CBD19B659E849C4F4273E8" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 418 --------------81CBD19B659E849C4F4273E8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for proving my point, Grace. You would do much better to refer to the issue being discussed, but you don't and that's exactly where it begins to get personal and insulting. The discussion is degraded when the will to discuss is absent (which is also insulting), and that seems to be the case to date as far as you are concerned. Any time you care to comment on the main point I've bothered to examine within your supposed area of competence - "compulsory organic certification", you might just gain a little more respect. As things stand, you're fair game until such time you decide to make a real contribution to a legitimate discussion, instead of pretending to have been injured and spewing out colored words like those underlined below. I find that incongruent. Your rose to the bait all right, but not yet in a constructive way. I expect more and try to provide more myself. If you can't take the heat, why cook? Have you nothing to contribute? Why not engage in a little healthy dialog? (That's what this forum is for). I'm open to whatever reasoning you may be able to provide, in relation to sustainable agricultural themes such as the above, the induction via natural means of pineapple floration or the seasonality if the fruit and whether that should or shouldn't be extended. D.H. Grace J Gershuny wrote: > I am snipping one piece of Mr. Hinds' diatribe as an example of an > unwarranted (and, for what it's worth, inaccurate) personal attack that > degrades the discussion. I will not be baited, and my silence is a > reflection only of that. > > Grace Gershuny > > Douglas Hinds wrote: > > ...Grace already wants to obligate organic > certification. Will she outlaw pineapple whose flowering was induced > next? How will she take this thread? will she take it to heart, > constructively? I hope so, and am sure that even Grace will eventually > learn humility and that she too will become a constructive influence, > just as they tried to teach her to do at Goddard, all along. > > Sorry girls, but you posture really doesn't help - it's much too far > from the field and too entrenched in an ivory tower on the one hand and > bureaucratic arrogance on the other (Grace didn't even bother to reply > to my response to her letter to "The Economist" magazine). > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address) Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412 6308 (direct) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, dhinds@ucol.mx, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx --------------81CBD19B659E849C4F4273E8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    Thanks for proving my point, Grace.  You would do much better to refer to the issue being discussed, but you don't and that's exactly where it begins to get personal and insulting.  The discussion is degraded when the will to discuss is absent (which is also insulting), and that seems to be the case to date as far as you are concerned.  Any time you care to comment on the main point I've bothered to examine within your supposed area of competence - "compulsory organic certification", you might just gain a little more respect.  As things stand, you're fair game until such time you decide to make a real contribution to a legitimate discussion, instead of pretending to have been injured and spewing out colored words like those underlined below.  I find that incongruent.  Your rose to the bait all right, but not yet in a constructive way.  I expect more and try to provide more myself.  If you can't take the heat, why cook?  Have you nothing to contribute?  Why not engage in a little healthy dialog?  (That's what this forum is for).  I'm open to whatever reasoning you may be able to provide, in relation to sustainable agricultural themes such as the above, the induction via natural means of pineapple floration or the seasonality if the fruit and whether that should or shouldn't be extended.

    D.H.

    Grace J Gershuny wrote:

    I am snipping one piece of Mr. Hinds' diatribe as an example of an
    unwarranted (and, for what it's worth, inaccurate) personal attack that
    degrades the discussionI will not be baited, and my silence is a
    reflection only of that.

    Grace Gershuny

    Douglas Hinds wrote:

    ...Grace already wants to obligate organic
    certification. Will she outlaw pineapple whose flowering was induced
    next?  How will she take this thread? will she take it to  heart,
    constructively?  I hope so, and am sure that even Grace will eventually
    learn humility and that she too will become a constructive influence,
    just as they tried to teach her to do at Goddard, all along.

    Sorry girls, but you posture really doesn't help - it's much too far
    from the field and too entrenched in an ivory tower on the one hand and
    bureaucratic arrogance on the other (Grace didn't even bother to reply
    to my response to her letter to "The Economist" magazine).

    To Unsubscribe:  Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command
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    --

    Douglas M. Hinds, Director General
    Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR)
    (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit)
    Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address)
    Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address)
    Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO
    U.S. Voice Mailbox:  1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked)
    U.S. Fax Mailbox:  1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked)
    Tel. & Fax:  011 523 412 6308 (direct)
    e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, dhinds@ucol.mx,
    cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx
      --------------81CBD19B659E849C4F4273E8-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 14:12:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01245 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA26818 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:19:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA26716 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904131719.NAA26716@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.174] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AC2217300392; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:17:22 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:17:52 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: natural law prophets Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 419 On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:47:02 EST5EDT, Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >different from their argument that consumers should "know where [and >when] food comes from." The vast majority of Americans also have absolutely no idea where their water comes from (or their turds go to), either. Ditto for how the banking system works, and how communications, transportation and other key elements of infrastructure function. Food system ignorance shouldn't be surprising, nor IMO, should it be dealt with in isolation. Same could be said for basic physical and political geography, the majority of geography teaching effort having been dedicated for the last 30 years to social geography --- when it was taught at all. My sons (educated in Canada) had three years of high school geography, and even then they felt ashamed in the presence of European colleagues from such academic 'powerhouses' as Romania and Turkey. I'd like to learn what other folks think would constitute the core elements of a Food System unit of high school geography. I'm *not* interested in elements describing some utopian future food system, but how would you describe to the average 16-year-old the system we have now. Embedded in that (I suppose) is the assumption that once people begin to understand how it is structured presently, the need for change will become increasingly self-evident. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 14:19:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01387 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA02734 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:24:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA02603 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23791 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990413132757.007cbab0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:27:57 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: re:slugs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 420 Check out this site: http://www.gil.com.au/~emmerik/slug_snail_FAQ.html For more about slugs than you ever wanted to know. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 15:16:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02540 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA25025 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:42:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24800 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool006-max9.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.106]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 26N2ALGY; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:47:51 -0400 Message-ID: <37138142.19847F7F@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:39:14 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: c inputs to soil References: <199904131349.JAA16671@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 421 check "Nature" for the rodale institute's study, -they have c& n inputs listed for various systems- pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 15:52:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03462 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA05147 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA05102 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:49:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (inter351.internet.com.mx [200.23.254.141]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA19965 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:46:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990413134313.0069a274@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:43:13 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Organic farming in Mexico Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA05110 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 422 Dear sanet, I am sitting in our not-for profit shop in Mexico City surrounded by boxes of organic produce (no certificiation. We produce fresh veggies on a 5 acre farm in Chaldo or we buy directly from growers whose operations we know). These boxes will be delivered directly to the customers who send in their order each week. Now we have more than thirty regular customers, individuals and a few restaurants, a natural health clinic, etc. As I write, beautiful Marta just walked in the door with two big boxes of equally beautiful organic raspberries she grows in Chalmita, along with vegetables, avocados, chickens and eggs. As all this happens, I just read two different messages on SANET sayin that there is no market for organics in Mexico and that people would be too poor to buy them anyway. Discouraging things are being said about export. This may seem odd, but a number of US organic products (eg. from Colorado) are available in the supermarkets here. Expensive--but they sell. There is a small but rapidly growing organic market in Mexico and, though they may not say so if you asked them in a survey, even poor people are willing to pay a little more for quality organic food. It's true because we see it happen every day. Things aren't always what they seem. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 16:45:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04673 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA11625 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:50:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA11606 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:49:11 -0500 Message-ID: <3713AD93.C240B1CA@acnet.net> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:48:19 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary Hendrickson CC: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Re: Seasonality References: <37135D39.CCC1E9C1@missouri.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 423 Hi Mary, Mary Hendrickson wrote: > Dale and Douglas: > > If you want to live in the international trade world You're offering me a choice? > and think farmers and rural communities around the world can survive and > prosper in that > context, fine. First of all, do you mean can or do you mean have to?Secondly, do you mean in general? I don't think it works that way. On what basis are you generalizing? Some farmers are better off protected from imports, while others are hurt by closed markets. It's clear that you have no idea of what I personally do - Among other things, I organize and arrange funding for sustainable agricultural projects. I also arrange direct sales contracts which provide a better deal for farmers, rather than a chain of intermediaries. You're addressing a situation you mostly ignore on the basis of too many unquestioned assumptions. I made a legitimate request for information which is getting sidetracked by irrelevant (to me and to my request) and mistaken assumptions. > A few of them can, and some farmers and communities are > doing wonderfully in the dominant food system. The dominant food system? You mean the digestive tract. I personally eat local food. Which do you think is more local - Hawaii, Costa Rica or Oaxaca, Mexico? > I'm glad, however, that > people like Misha can take your "constructive" criticism, Douglas, and > not be fazed by it. Mishas is not fazed by my "constructive" criticism for 3 reasons: She is a mature and thoughtful person. She knows I like her. She knows I'm right, in this instance. > For many of the people I work with in both inner > cities and rural areas, the global organization of the food and > agriculture system has done nothing but take away their livelihoods and > their access to good wholesome food. Don't call Misha and others like > us some "ivory tower" academics because believe me we are out there > working with farmers and consumers every single day, and we are trying > to understand what works and what doesn't work. I would never think of calling either Misha or Mary "ivory tower" academics because I know that both of you are out there working with farmers and consumers every single day, trying to understand what works and what doesn't work. On the other hand, the particular comments I referred to showed a distance from the issue as I saw and still see it. The context was the need to grow pineapple using technology coherant with organic principles, in order to provide a better product and (obviously), do it in a way that is at the same time economically viable for the farmer. (That was the context. Now think a bit about your opening statement. Where are you coming from)? The seasonality issue was later raised in a manner that largely ignores the above. Seasonality is not a problem for some items, for others, it is. For people who want to grow pineapple for their own use, a time frame as limited as is that in which pineapple flowers naturally may not be a problem. However, a lot of peoples livlihood and futures are at stake and unless forcing floration can be shown to produce demonstrably bad results (as I have found forcing ripening does), I am inclined to consider it as a perhaps imperfect but still viable option. I think the solution to this matter is to invite both of you down to visit some time. As of right now I can assure both of you of my unwavering loyalty to each of you; as professionals, as developed human beings and as women. What do you say! When can we do that? Just tell me when and where to pick you up. I like both of you. Let's change the food system together. (But we still have to send Dale pineapple 6 months a year). Nothing follows. > Seasonality can be an important function in reestablishing > community-based food systems. It can help people get in touch with how > a basic necessity of life is produced and consumed. It can help farmers > in places like the Midwest compete within a global food system that > externalizes environmental and social costs of year-round production. > It can help farmers and eaters build the ties that make communities > vital, vibrant, and viable. Of course, seasonality isn't the only > thing, but rather a part of revisioning and reestablishing what a food > system rooted in place and community can be. If you think that's pie in > the sky, fine. However, don't tell that to the farmers, rural > communities, and eaters in both rural and urban areas that are seeking > to change the food system and being successful. If you want to know how > successful these endeavors can be -- in terms of quality of life as well > as economic viability -- you can ask people in the Iowa Network for > Community Agriculture, the Kansas City Food Circle, the MACSAC > coalition, the Just Food organization in New York City and on and on. > Or ask the individual farmers and eaters who are involved in these > projects. And don't tell me these alternatives are so small they are > insignificant. They are very significant for the people who are > participating in them and we are learning every day what kinds of > alternatives to a dominant system work and what kinds don't do as well. > That's not ivory tower -- that's action at the local level. > > Mary > > -- > Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. > Network Coordinator > Food Circles Networking Project > University of Missouri Outreach and Extension > Department of Rural Sociology > Columbia, MO 65211 > > Tele: 573-882-7463 > Fax: 573-882-1473 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address) Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412 6308 (direct) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 17:15:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05419 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00656 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:21:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00505 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00B40299@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:21:01 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 13 Apr 99 16:21:10 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 13 Apr 99 16:20:51 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:20:50 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: organic exports to Mex In-reply-to: <199904131349.JAA16671@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <28693FF00F4@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 424 (snip) > Mexico is so poor, you wouldn't want to think of exporting organics into > Mexico, that would be too unrealistic. But you can help the small farmer who > is slowly getting crushed by the advent of agribusiness, with organic seeds. > Sometimes just pipe for watering would help a lot. Without wanting to touch the politically correct aspect of this discussion with a ten foot organic asparegus spear, allow me to clear up something here. Yes, at least 61% of the population is *poor* (in the lowest income bracket) according to a '95 FAS attache report, but 25% make $500-1500/mo and the rest make more than that (3% make more than $5,000/mo). Mercedes, among other super expensive luxury goods manufacturers, does some of its best business in developing countries like Mexico. You can argue that it isn't right or good, but that doesn't negate the fact that high priced goods can be very marketable in ANY country, including Mexico. And fyi, small farmers are often among the best to get onto the organic bandwagon because their poverty has precluded them from riding the chemical waves of "modern" agriculture. But none of this has to do with my original post, however. I would just like to add that my original letter on this thread to Mr. Hinds was meant to be a private post, and I was not so pleased to see it posted publically. So I will likely not respond to any of the various ways it may be misunderstood or read out of context in this public forum. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 17:22:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05551 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03960 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:30:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03905 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:30:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVD1ZVB>; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:33:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Positions: USAID Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:33:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 425 I think these job announcements (2) have broader sustainable potential than it would seem at first glance... Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-intl-lst@maat.reeusda.gov [mailto:owner-intl-lst@maat.reeusda.gov] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:47 PM Subject: ********************************************************* International Programs Electronic Update #100 Job oppurtunities April 13, 199 *********************************************************** Job Title: Social Science Specialist(Resource Tenure and Management) Grade: GS-101-14 Area of Consideration: All Sources Sender: owner-intl-lst@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk This is a Resources Support Services Agreement (RSSA) position for the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). The individual will be assigned to the Inter-American and International Programs Branch of the Development Resources Division, ICD and will be detailed to the Office of Women in Development in USAID's Bureau for Global Programs, Field Support and Research (G/WID) as USAID's senior Women in Development Specialist with responsibility for addressing gender considerations in economic development policies and programs that influence or involve patterns of resource management and resource tenure practices. The incumbent serves as one of two USAID's Senior WID Specialists, working under the policy direction of the Office Director and the administrative guidance of the Deputy Director. The incumbent provides Global Bureau and Agency-wide leadership in all social science aspects of integrating gender throughout USAID programs, as called for in the Agency's Gender Plan of Action, including policy guidance and guidance on program interventions. Position responsibilities may include, but are not limited to, the following: 1. Provides Agency-wide technical leadership and policy and program guidance as one of USAID's chief social science experts on improving women's economic, educational and legal status from the perspective of resource tenure and resource management. 2. Improves G/WID's technical input into strategic plans, R4s and customer service plans of overseas posts in the area of resource tenure and resource management. 3. Within the context of resource tenure and resource management, fosters exchange of research, development approaches, policy findings, methods, and lessons of experience among USAID organizational units, with other donors, and through professional networks. 4. Reviews and evaluates relevant proposals from the private sector, academic and scientific organizations for possible Agency support through Global Centers or Regional Bureaus. Required Skills: -- Advanced degree in the social sciences; -- Extensive experience in resource tenure and resource management issues, to include consideration of physical, natural, economic, and social resources; -- Demonstrated direct experience with donor stategy and program design, management, evaluation, and impact assessment; -- Extensive experience and in-depth addressing gender issues in developing country settings; -- Demonstated ability to communicate orally and in writing; -- Knowledge of the international and national agricultural research institutes, the international donor community, and the regional/policy networks working on economic growth, agricultural development and gender issues; excellent ommunications/networking skills to interact with these bodies effectively; --Strong written and spoken command of a second language. To apply: please send C.V. and cover letter to the program officer. Program Officer: Robin Comfort Division: FAS/ICD/DRD cc:Mail Address: comfort Phone: 690-1930 ******************** Job Title: Economic Growth and Agricultural Development Specialist Grade: GS-110-14 Area of Consideration: All Sources This is a Resources Support Services Agreement (RSSA) position for the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). The individual will be assigned to the Inter-American and International Programs Branch of the Development Resources Division, ICD and will be detailed to the Office of Women in Development in USAID's Bureau for Global Programs, Field Support and Research (G/WID)as USAID's senior Women in Development Specialist with responsibly for addressing gender issues related to sustainable, broad-based economic growth, agricultural development, and poverty reduction strategies, policies, and programs. The incumbent serves as one of two USAID's Senior WID Specialists, working under the policy direction of the Office Director and the administrative guidance of the Deputy Director. The incumbent provides Global Bureau and Agency-wide leadership in economic issues related to increasing the effectiveness of USAID's sustainable development strategy by integrating gender throughout USAID's programs as called for in the Agency's Gender Plan of Action, including policy guidance and guidance on program interventions. Position responsibilities may include, but are not limited to, the following: 1. Provides Agency-wide technical leadership and policy and program guidance as one of USAID's senior experts on gender-based constraints affecting economic growth, agricultural development, food security, and poverty reduction strategies, programs, and outcomes; 2) Improves G/WID's technical input into strategic plans, R4s, and customer service plans of overseas posts in areas related to broad-based economic growth and agricultural development. 3. Provides management and technical oversight of activities, programs, and project resources; prepares documentation and actively participates in the competitive contracting process where applicable for new projects and amendments. 4. Provides management and technical oversight of activities, programs, and project resources; prepares documentation and actively participates in the competitive contracting process where applicable for new projects and amendments. Required Skills: -- Advanced degree in Agricultural Economics with extensive applied research experience on issues related to agricultural policy, food security, rural growth linkages, and intra- household decision-making -- Extensive knowledge and in-depth understanding of agricultural development and rural economic growth issues and the gender-based constraints/opportunities affecting them -- Demonstrated direct experience with donor strategy and program design, management, evaluation and impact assessment. -- Leadership abilities to develop and implement a strategic plan of action within the office and work independently -- Demonstated ability to communicate orally and in writing; -- Knowledge of the international and national agricultural research institutes, the international donor community, and the regional/policy networks working on economic growth, agricultural development and gender issues; excellent ommunications/networking skills to interact with these bodies effectively -- Ability to contribute technical guidance and recommendations on economic growth strategies, programs and projects; and the ability to develop new approaches to integrate gender, test hypotheses, and design data collection efforts To apply: please send C.V. and cover letter to the program officer. Program Officer: Robin Comfort Division: FAS/ICD/DRD cc:Mail Address: comfort Phone: 690-1930 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 18:48:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07467 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA26313 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:06:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA26281 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp49-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.49]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA00445; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:05:52 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Bluestem Associates" , Subject: food system, was... natural law prophets Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:16:41 +1000 Message-ID: <001701be85fb$4ebf54c0$313325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199904131719.NAA26716@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 426 >I'd like to learn what other folks think would constitute the core elements of a Food System unit of high school geography. I'm *not* interested in elements describing some utopian future food system, but how would you describe to the average 16-year-old the system we have now. Embedded in that (I suppose) is the assumption that once people begin to understand how it is structured presently, the need for change will become increasingly self-evident. You actually have two problems: [1] the nature of the food supply system; [2] the often bizarre and generally biochemically/physiologically unsound principles that abound in popular media, health food shops, and doctors offices about what is the right food. I have found teenagers much enjoyed, readily understood text at pages 28-30 of Bill Mollison's 'Permaculture: A Designer's Manual' under the heading "2.7 Pyramids, Food Webs, Growth, and Vegetarianism" which offers a sensible view of our place in food systems. The caption for Figure 6, page 29 is "TROPHIC PYRAMID: Life systems are rarely strictly hierarchical [that seems to strike a chord with teenagers here too ;-) ] as in the pyramid structure. Most species are omnivorous and all species recycle valuable waste products to lower levels of the trophic ladder. Thus, life systems are a web or cyclic systems rather than a pyramid." I think it's hard to start at 'the system we have now' in industry terms. But I think you can, without being utopian, give a quick sense of where we are in the overall eco-food system and proceed to 'what therefore do we need' and then do case studies of what is actually supplied by the market. Kids, in my experience are put off totally unless you give them a key to figure things out sensibly themselves. The kind of start point I have in mind helps thinking to counter the deluge of 'healthy food advice' from commercial interests. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 13 23:07:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA10989 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA04295 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:03:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA04228 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool017-max2.ds9-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.4.167]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA12896 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990413154625.00840100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:46:25 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: food system, was... natural law prophets In-Reply-To: <199904132210.SAA28482@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 427 One enlightening assignment that we had in a class on Sustainable Communities was interviewing an elder. We found a grandparent or other wise old person to ask questions like: Back when you were my age, what did you eat for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks? Where did that food come from? As you would expect, the food was simpler and healthier than the junk most students eat now-a-days, and something very striking was how *CLOSE* to home most foods came from. -Fred FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus and local groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at: http://www.csupomona.edu/~jmikeda/la401/cap/ (Clean Air Park Proposal) http://www.regen.org/bwecc.html (BWA's Energy Center Proposal) http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~muse/ (Multi-Use Development Strategy) http://www.rokcircle.com/bbs/ (The Wilderness Forum) http://www.thelyp.com/ewala (The Earth Water Air for Los Angeles site) http://www.ballona.org (Ballona Preservation Land Trust) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 09:16:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17858 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA19611 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:17:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19579 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVD17R8>; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:20:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Summer Internship in Ecological Community Living Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:20:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 428 -----Original Message----- From: daniel greenberg [mailto:daniel@ic.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:36 PM To: daniel@ic.org Subject: Summer Internship in Ecological Community Living Hello! I am writing to let you know about a Summer Internship Program at the Sirius Ecovillage this coming summer. As we don't have a large budget for advertising, we are relying on low cost methods such as email and are hoping that others will help us get the word out. If you have questions and/or would like additional information, please do not hesitate to contact me. And if you feel you've received this message by mistake, please let me know and I will remove you from our list. Thanks! In community, - Daniel Greenberg Summer Internship Program in Ecological Community Living at Sirius Community June 4th - July 31st, 1999 Sirius is an intentional, spiritual community, educational center, and ecovillage located on 90 acres of woods 15 minutes from Amherst, Massachussetts. The community consists of 35 adults and children who practice simple and sustainable living in harmony with nature. Rooted in real-world learning in the context of community, the Summer Internship Program at Sirius will seek to revive the age old wisdom of learning as an apprentices to mentors who are engaged and experienced in their work. Program participants will be encouraged to custom design their internship by focusing on one or more of the following areas: Green Building, Ecovillage Design, Appropriate Technology, Organic Gardening, Sustainable Food Systems, Ecovillage Networking and Outreach, Conference Center Management, and Personal and Community Health. Others may become available. In addition, interns will experience the richness of intentional community living through dialogues with experienced community members, group discussions, seminars, and participation in the daily rhythms at Sirius (including organic vegetarian food preparation, meditations, and service work). A special benefit of the Summer Internship Program is the opportunity to assist and participate in four of Sirius' weekend workshops at no extra charge (a $300 value): - Greenhouse Construction June 5-6 - The Nuts and Bolts of Community June 25-27 - Heat, Energy, and Water Systems July 23-25 - Wild Edibles (post-program) August 14-15 The fee for the 1999 Sirius Internship Program is $950.00. Food and lodging are available at an additional variable rate depending on type of residency. Internship opportunities are limited to 12 and are filling up fast! We hope to hear from you soon. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Daniel Greenberg, Ph.D. | Sirius Community email: daniel@ic.org | 72 Baker Rd., Shutesbury, MA 01072 phone: (413) 259-1199 | http://www.siriuscommunity.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 10:27:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19193 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00880 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:27:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00812 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:26:38 -0500 Message-ID: <3714A574.69377E43@acnet.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:25:57 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: organic exports to Mex References: <28693FF00F4@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 429 MAYBE the good lord (and some at the the USDA & other places) want us to all grow our own (and maub someday we all will, in heaven and on earth). but fyi re exporting certified organic products to Mexico (which WAS the info solicited): "Mexican spend 3.5 times more of their disposable income on food consumed at home compared to Texans. The population is also growing more rapidly - 2.1 % per year versus .58 % for the U.S. ... Mexican consumers place a great importance on fresh food, including produce, meats and baked goods. So H-E-B [a Texas supermarket chain w/ 253 stores in TX, LA an now, N.L. Mexico], has expanded it's produce section ... at it's first store [in Mexico]. It also underestimated Mexican demand for healthy and low-fat foods. Si it has been adding sugar-free, fat-free and reduced-fat items to it's store shelves." (December '98 issue of US/Mexico Business) Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > (...You can argue that it isn't right or good, > but that doesn't negate the fact that high priced goods can be very > marketable in ANY country, including Mexico. > > ... > I would just like to add that my original letter on this thread to > Mr. Hinds was meant to be a private post, and I was not so pleased to > see it posted publically. I thought it would be of interest to others on this forum and took the liberty to post it in exchange for the free advice. (I hadn't been asked not to do so - I wouldn't have done it had you stated that desire). > So I will likely not respond to any of > the various ways it may be misunderstood or read out of context in > this public forum. > > Anita -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 11:27:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20734 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06065 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:34:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from admin.dordt.edu (admin.dordt.edu [198.97.44.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06049 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc-213.dordt.edu by admin.dordt.edu id aa28269; 14 Apr 99 9:35 CDT Message-ID: <3714A791.202D42DE@dordt.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:34:57 -0500 From: Chris Goedhart Organization: Dordt College X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re:Snails References: <199904132023.QAA01750@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 430 Since no one on the list has suggested the possibility of using decollate snails, Rumina decollata,to control the common brown garden snail, Helix sp., I will make the suggestion. They do provide excellent snail control in suburban home and roadside settings in Southern California. Although they cause some feeding damage to plants in the absence of their host, my past experience in a home landscape setting in S.Cal. is that they cause far less damage than the typical garden snail. In California the use of decollate snails is restricted to certain counties for reasons outlined below. See the following link and information. http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn028.html#Natural Enemies Snails and slugs have many natural enemies, including ground beetles, pathogens, snakes, toads, turtles, and birds (including ducks, geese, and chickens), but they are rarely effective enough to provide satisfactory control in the garden. A predaceous snail, the decollate snail [79K], Rumina decollata, has been released in southern California citrus orchards for control of the brown garden snail and is providing very effective biological control. It feeds only on small snails or slugs and not on full-sized ones. Because of the potential impact of the decollate snail on certain endangered mollusk species, it cannot be released outside of Fresno, Kern, Madera, Imperial, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego, Santa Barbara, Ventura or Tulare counties in California. It is also not recommended for garden situations because the decollate snails may feed on seedlings, small plants, and flowers. ----------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Chris Goedhart e-mail (goedhart@dordt.edu) Chair, Agriculture Department phone# 712.722.6276 498 4th Ave NE fax# 712.722.1198 Dordt College, Sioux Center IA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 11:29:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20797 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04034 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:29:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04029 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA13354 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990414103233.007a62a0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:32:33 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Chickens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 431 Efforts Of World's 16 Billion Chickens Still Not Adding Up To Much OMAHA, NE--According to a U.S. Poultry Council report released Monday, the collective efforts of the world's 16 billion chickens have yet to yield any appreciable results. "For thousands of years, chickens worldwide have put a tremendous amount of energy into their various activities, which include flapping, squawking and pecking with a great deal of vigor," the Poultry Council report read. "But it remains unclear what has been accomplished as a result of their unfocused efforts." ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 11:50:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21358 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13022 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:44:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12925 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904141444.KAA12925@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.159] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A949EBD0322; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:42:17 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:42:57 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: organic exports to Mex Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 432 On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:25:57 -0600, Douglas M. Hinds wrote: >"Mexican spend 3.5 times more of their disposable income on food consumed at home >compared to Texans. The population is also growing more rapidly - 2.1 % per year >versus .58 % for the U.S. ... Mexican consumers place a great importance on fresh >food, including produce, meats and baked goods. So H-E-B [a Texas supermarket >chain w/ 253 stores in TX, LA an now, N.L. Mexico], has expanded it's produce >section ... at it's first store [in Mexico]. It also underestimated Mexican >demand for healthy and low-fat foods. Si it has been adding sugar-free, fat-free >and reduced-fat items to it's store shelves." To which, let's add that most educated Mexicans are well aware that the prime vegetable production area in Bahia is often irrigated with Mexico City's 'aguas negros' (sewage waters with the big chunks taken out, since there's no delicate way to describe it). There is an increasing percentage of secondary treatment water used in Bahia, but few educated Mexicans think that's a significant improvement. The will buy organic when they can get it. I've worked with an organic lettuce farm near Quito that built a huge market in Quito for precisely the same reason. The sewage irrigation issue is a tremendous incentive for middle and upper income Latin Americans to choose organic when they can find it --- local or imported, they don't care. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 13:47:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23673 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19863 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:43:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19830 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.132] (br-ppp29.hevanet.com [198.5.254.132]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA09900; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904141643.JAA09900@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:45:10 -0700 Subject: FW: Alfalfa Plants Vacuum Up Fertilizer Spill From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET CC: AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 433 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Alfalfa Plants Vacuum Up Fertilizer Spill Date: Wed, Apr 14, 1999, 7:01 AM STORY LEAD: Alfalfa Plants Vacuum Up Fertilizer Spill ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA April 14, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- U.S. Department of Agriculture researchers grew alfalfa to clean up a spill of 45,000 gallons of liquid nitrogen fertilizer resulting from a Canadian Pacific Railway train derailment near Bordulac, N. D., on Feb. 20, 1989. In the past three years, deep-rooted alfalfa specially bred to take in all its nitrogen from soil and water removed excess nitrate from the soil and significantly improved groundwater quality at the 7-acre spill site. Regular alfalfa obtains most of its nitrogen from the air. Plant physiologist Carroll P. Vance with USDA's Agricultural Research Service in St. Paul, Minn., helped develop the "Ineffective Agate" alfalfa. Vance is at the ARS Plant Science Research Unit at St. Paul. Unlike regular alfalfa, Ineffective Agate cannot use nitrogen from the air. But it takes up 30 to 40 percent more nitrogen from soil and water than regular alfalfa. Vance, ARS soil scientist Michael P. Russelle and ARS geneticist JoAnn F.S. Lamb worked on the groundwater cleanup project with North Dakota State University's Carrington Research and Extension Center and the environmental firm Braun Intertec Corp. under a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement with Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR). Last year, the cleanup crew pumped out nearly 690,000 gallons of high-nitrate groundwater and irrigated the alfalfa with it. They harvested the alfalfa four times, removing 370 pounds of nitrogen per acre. As part of its agreement, ARS recently issued a final report on the research part of the clean-up project to CPR and Braun Intertec. ARS scientists are distributing small amounts of Ineffective Agate seed to other researchers. Lamb has used this seed to incorporate the Ineffective Agate trait into several lines of alfalfa adapted to various regions of the country. An article on the cleanup appears in the April issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr99/alfa0499.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Carroll P. Vance, ARS Plant Science Research Unit, St. Paul, Minn., phone (612) 625-5715, fax (651) 649-5058, vance004@maroon.tc.umn.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 15:05:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA26446 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA04915 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:05:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from WDC.USDA.GOV (wdc.usda.gov [199.128.136.107]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA04901 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DC-Message_Server by WDC.USDA.GOV with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:05:12 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:04:46 -0400 From: "Sharon Hestvik" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Herbicide Tolerant Crops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA04904 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 434 To Sanet, I received an email on Herbicide Tolerant crops - - but I don't have any info and was wondering if anyone has any tips tha I can pass onto these biology students-- thank you! ========================== Dear Sir or Madam, Our molecular Biology class is doing research on Herbacide Tolerant Crops. We have consulted your fine website and we have not turned up any information on this subject. We would appriciate any information that you have on this information that has not been posted to your website. It would be much appricated if any of this information could be here by the end of this week. We have several E-mail accounts that will be listed at the bottom of this website and we have a fax line open to our use. Thank You. -P.H.S. Molecular Biology Class E-mail: djwhite@adams.net Fax: (217)-285-4723 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 18:06:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01181 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA10311 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:46:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA10155 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:46:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0FA700HG53F2LW@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:57:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0FA700FY73FHUW@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 85256753.006DA6BB ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:57:41 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:54:21 -0400 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #958 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <85256753.006D9632.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 435 Re. Raining pesticides Just because the the level of a pesticide in a rainwater sample exceeded the EC drinking water standard for pesticides does not mean that there were "toxic levels" of a pesticide in the rainwater. The words "toxic level" suggest that the health of anyone exposed to rainwater containing that concentration of pesticide is likely to be at risk. The European standard for pesticides in drinking water is not risk based. The language in the article is misleading. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 18:38:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01755 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA16712 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:45:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [208.138.185.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA16698 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:45:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (node165.csj.net [208.138.185.165]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA32218 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:45:09 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Subject: "toxic level" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:47:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000101be86c0$75b52080$f003fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 436 I think the idea that there is a "toxic level" needs to be reassessed. My site goes into great detail on the relationship between environmental toxins, ATP depletion, and autoimmune disorders. It is common knowledge that certain herbicides deplete systems of ATP, yet the impact of this depletion on a living organism has not been recognized or appreciated as the single common factor to autoimmune disorders. Donna Fezler http://www.rhealiving.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [SMTP:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 2:54 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #958 Re. Raining pesticides Just because the the level of a pesticide in a rainwater sample exceeded the EC drinking water standard for pesticides does not mean that there were "toxic levels" of a pesticide in the rainwater. The words "toxic level" suggest that the health of anyone exposed to rainwater containing that concentration of pesticide is likely to be at risk. The European standard for pesticides in drinking water is not risk based. The language in the article is misleading. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 18:41:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01805 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA14745 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:40:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.innernet.net (innernet.net [207.121.52.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14646 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuscarora [205.130.17.62] by mail.innernet.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-5.01) id AC39275500DE; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:44:25 EST From: "Tuscarora Organic Growers Co-op" To: "SANET" Subject: Chicken House Alternative Uses Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:38:10 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <199904141744.SM00252@tuscarora> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 437 Hello All: I'm looking for some creative suggestions -- have y'all got your thinkin' caps on? One of the members of our marketing co-op, Tim Derstine, owns a house which has been used to raise broiler and breeder chickens for a large processor around here (south central Pennsylvania). His contract with the processor will be up soon, and (for several reasons, too complicated to explain here) he'd rather not renew. He's trying to explore alternative uses for that house, and his first idea is to bring in some laying hens and go into the organic egg business. We're trying to crunch some numbers to evaluate that idea, but I'm not too optimistic about its potential. My question for all you clever people: got any other ideas about how he could use this building? Here's a brief description: - Dimensions: 42' x 256' - Temperature Controlled (with large fans that can be set on a timer or a thermostat system, and gas heaters -- which are currently not vented) - The house has lights on a timer, and is totally "blacked out" when the lights aren't on - The house has a mechanized feeding & watering system Opportunity: our marketing co-op currently sells a wide range of organically-grown fruits and vegetables to retail and restaurant establishments in Washington, DC. We're always looking for new specialty crops to try, and we're particularly interested in trying to find items that can be harvested and sold in our less-busy months (December to April). Some kind of produce item (like mushrooms, for example) would be ideal, but we haven't ruled out livestock. We have a pretty good customer base of folks willing to try new things, so I'd be optimistic even about something unusual or "cutting-edge." We're willing to consider any and all ideas, even the wackiest and most experimental -- but we'll probably pay special attention to anyone who can describe a proven production system that could be applied to the existing building with only a minimum amount of renovation/experimentation. Tim doesn't have a lot of free time, and he needs to find a way (sometime soon) to make his investment in this building continue to bring in farm income. Now, I know someone out there in cyberspace has exactly the right suggestion for Tim. I'll be waiting for your reply. (If you know of other lists or individuals who might have a creative response to this question, please feel free to forward this message in that direction). Thanks. Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- Christopher D. Fullerton Manager, Tuscarora Organic Growers Cooperative HCR 71 Box 168-B Hustontown, PA 17229 voice (814) 448-2173 fax (814) 448-2333 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 20:48:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA03436 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02309 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:52:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02201 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp39-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.39]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA18174; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:51:58 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Tuscarora Organic Growers Co-op" , "SANET" Subject: RE: Chicken House Alternative Uses Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:02:52 +1000 Message-ID: <000b01be86d3$4e4c5780$273325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199904141744.SM00252@tuscarora> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 438 It may be impertinent for me to suggest this from the southern hemisphere, but it does seem the sort of environment which suits your National Security Council, and they might like it for strategic planning and public information activities Dennis >- Temperature Controlled (with large fans that can be set on a timer or a thermostat system, and gas heaters -- which are currently not vented) >- The house has lights on a timer, and is totally "blacked out" when the lights aren't on >- The house has a mechanized feeding & watering system To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 21:00:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03596 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA16965 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:11:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA16815 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp39-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.39]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA19710 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:11:18 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "SANET" Subject: Robert Theobald and The Healing Century Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:22:12 +1000 Message-ID: <000c01be86d6$01c28080$273325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199904141744.SM00252@tuscarora> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 439 There are transcripts of a lecture series by Robert Theobald, beginning thus: "Program one. The Inevitable/Impossible Transformation: Grasping our Moment in Time. "The purpose of this set of six programs is to bring you a message of hope. I shall argue that we are capable of making a profound positive shift in our thinking over the next few years. The heart of this shift would be for us to conceptualize the twenty-first century as the healing century just as the twentieth will certainly be defined in the future as the economic century. I shall prove that only a change toward a more caring and compassionate culture at all levels from the personal to the ecological can avoid massive breakdowns. "I am all too well aware, however, that the message of hope I intend to send will only be welcome to those who are aware that the current directions of the global culture are unacceptable and unsustainable. If you still believe that our current commitment to maximum economic growth and international competitiveness, based on ever-increasing technological competence, will solve our problems then my message will seem pessimistic and, indeed, highly negative. "I am convinced that we face a set of unavoidable crises which are already visible to those who care to look beyond the dominant headlines..." at the Radio National [Australia] web site: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/events/theobald.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 22:41:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04881 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA09867 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:41:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA09843 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp221.epix.net [205.238.243.221]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id VAA18200; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37154507.74CC4A8E@epix.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:46:47 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gcr@rhealiving.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: "toxic level" References: <000101be86c0$75b52080$f003fea9@donna> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 440 Donna Fezler wrote: > I think the idea that there is a "toxic level" needs to be reassessed. > I agree, but I think the *dosage* should be given the greatest attention. The word *toxic* has been thrown around indiscriminately. Everything can be toxic. It's the dosage that is relevant. Pure water can be toxic if taken in large doses. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 22:50:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04974 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA18652 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:54:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA18638 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.mntm.org (ns.mntm.org [209.18.254.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA10888 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rrc2.rrcnet.org (rrc2.rrcnet.org [209.18.245.2]) by ns.mntm.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA15950 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:54:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ws138c.rrcnet.org by rrc2.rrcnet.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/11Jul96-0511PM) id AA32669; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:52:42 -0500 Message-Id: <9904150152.AA32669@rrc2.rrcnet.org> From: "Phil Batalden" To: "sanet" Subject: Theory of GMO Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:53:04 -0500 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 441 I'm a sophmore in highschool and for our Biology project I need to do a report on a theory. I would like to do a theory on GMO crossing with other species. I would like to be able to argue both sides of the argument or just state facts about it in general. Thank you Rachel To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 14 23:33:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05523 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:33:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA18783 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:41:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA18767 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2T89ZRY8>; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:31:13 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'gcr@rhealiving.com'" Cc: "'Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov'" , "'sgroff@epix.net'" Subject: RE: "toxic level" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:31:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 442 i would appreciate it if andrew manale or anyone else could elaborate on the comment that the ec (eu) standard for pesticides in drinking water is not risk based thanks, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 Donna Fezler wrote: > I think the idea that there is a "toxic level" needs to be reassessed. > I agree, but I think the *dosage* should be given the greatest attention. The word *toxic* has been thrown around indiscriminately. Everything can be toxic. It's the dosage that is relevant. Pure water can be toxic if taken in large doses. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 > ---------- > From: Donna Fezler[SMTP:gcr@rhealiving.com] > Reply To: gcr@rhealiving.com > Sent: Wednesday 14 April 1999 5:47 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: "toxic level" > > > > I think the idea that there is a "toxic level" needs to be reassessed. > > My site goes into great detail on the relationship between environmental > toxins, ATP depletion, and autoimmune disorders. > > It is common knowledge that certain herbicides deplete systems of ATP, yet > the impact of this depletion on a living organism has not been recognized > or > appreciated as the single common factor to autoimmune disorders. > > Donna Fezler > > http://www.rhealiving.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [SMTP:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] On > Behalf Of Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 2:54 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #958 > > > > Re. Raining pesticides > > Just because the the level of a pesticide in a rainwater sample exceeded > the > EC > drinking water standard for pesticides does not mean that there were > "toxic > levels" of a pesticide in the rainwater. The words "toxic level" suggest > that > the health of anyone exposed to rainwater containing that concentration of > pesticide is likely to be at risk. The European standard for pesticides > in > drinking water is not risk based. The language in the article is > misleading. > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 09:31:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA12750 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA23307 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:34:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [208.138.185.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23267 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (node220.csj.net [208.138.185.220]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA06161; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:33:51 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Cc: Subject: RE: "toxic level" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:21:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000701be873c$96db6220$f003fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37154507.74CC4A8E@epix.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 443 Steve, And the reverse is true, water is by definition a drug, it cures dehydration, a condition that has 100% mortality if untreated. You did not go to the sight. I am saying that long-term low levels of exposure will compromise the body in a manner that has been unrecognized except at the cellular level. The assumption that autoimmune disorders are the body attacking itself is wrong and illogical in a survival of the fittest strategy. Donna Fezler http://www.rhealiving.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [SMTP:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Groff Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 8:47 PM To: gcr@rhealiving.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: "toxic level" Donna Fezler wrote: > I think the idea that there is a "toxic level" needs to be reassessed. > I agree, but I think the *dosage* should be given the greatest attention. The word *toxic* has been thrown around indiscriminately. Everything can be toxic. It's the dosage that is relevant. Pure water can be toxic if taken in large doses. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 09:46:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13194 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA01955 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:50:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01911 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDFFT5>; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:53:10 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Position available/WRDC Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:53:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 444 -----Original Message----- From: Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison [mailto:mgs@aae.wisc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 6:15 PM To: graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz; sustag@beta.tricity.wsu.edu; SAED-SHARE-L@cornell.edu; wisc-eco@igc.org Subject: Position available/WRDC Howdy, all--- Thought this might interest some of you. WRDC has been a leader in Wisconsin rural issues since the early/mid 80s. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Position Description EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR STATUS: Full-time SALARY: Dependent on experience and qualifications; $38,000 minimum BENEFITS: To be discussed APPLICATION DEADLINE: June 4, 1999 STARTING DATE: July 1, 1999 or as soon as possible The Wisconsin Rural Development Center seeks a full-time Executive Director with responsibility for the overall administration and operation of the organization. The position will be located at the Wisconsin Rural Development Center's office in Monona, Wisconsin, on the eastern edge of Madison. The person will have experience working with membership organizations and techniques; knowledge of existing federal, state and local agriculture, resource conservation and rural community development programs and policies; and familiarity with the experiences of farm and rural organizations. The person will work closely with other staff to achieve organizational goals including broadening the rural support base of the WRDC and meeting the needs of the WRDC's members. Experiences and Abilities: . Grassroots organizing, policy development and advocacy. . Membership recruitment and development. . Organizational development and strategic planning. . Board training and development. . Extensive fundraising experience. . Administrative skills/staff supervision. . Working collaboratively with farmers, rural activists, government, environmentalists and church groups. . Understanding rural, especially farming-dependent, communities. . Enthusiasm for the mission and purposes of the Wisconsin Rural Development Center. Responsibilities and Duties: . Manage the development, implementation, evaluation and updating of programs and projects aimed at achieving the WRDC's goals and objectives. . In conjunction with the Board, develop an annual organizational work plan, budget and financial plan; also provide periodic progress reports on plan implementation to the WRDC Board. . Recruit, train, hire, supervise, evaluate and terminate staff in compliance with established organizational policies and procedures. . Help plan and manage the WRDC's fundraising program, including maintaining relationships with existing funding sources, developing new sources and grant writing. . Serve as one of the organization's primary spokespersons. . Establish and maintain relationships with WRDC members, other rural citizens, state and local institutions, and organizations that impact or are impacted by WRDC programs and projects. . Arrange for Board, staff and member training as necessary; also provide support and assistance to WRDC chapters and members as necessary. . Assist in recruiting, orienting and training new Board members. . Perform other related duties as assigned by the WRDC Board. How to Apply: Submit your resume, three references (including recent supervisors), a writing sample (preferably persuasive writing), and a cover letter of no more than two pages responding to the following questions: . Why are you interested in this position and how does it relate to your personal goals? . What are the most important challenges facing farm and rural advocacy organizations and how can they be addressed? . What are your most significant accomplishments? . What are your strengths? (provide examples that demonstrate your strengths) Address your application to: Executive Director Search Committee, Wisconsin Rural Development Center, 4915 Monona Drive, Suite 304, Monona, WI 53716. Faxed applications will be accepted at 608-226-0301. The deadline for these materials is Friday, June 4, 1999. About the Wisconsin Rural Development Center: The Wisconsin Rural Development Center is a membership-based, nonprofit organization that was formed in 1983 to promote a sustainable vision for Wisconsin agriculture and rural communities. The organization was created by family farmers, conservationists, rural citizens and religious leaders with the following purpose in mind: to encourage an agricultural system based on small and medium-sized family operated farms; to protect natural resources; to foster prosperous rural communities; and to promote social and economic justice in rural Wisconsin. Since its inception, the WRDC has been a leader in on-farm sustainable agriculture research, public education, grassroots organizing, and public policy advocacy. A main focus has been promoting the adoption of environmentally sound farming systems through the use of alternatives to and reductions in pesticide use, intensive rotational grazing, and development of whole farm, total resource management plans. Other current areas of emphasis include: requiring banks to meet community reinvestment act guidelines; working locally, statewide and nationally to level the playing field for small- and mid-sized family farms; expanding participation in community supported agriculture (CSA) and providing access to CSAs by low-income persons; developing programs for comprehensive land use planning and farmland protection; and assisting in the creation of sustainable and "value added" rural businesses. The WRDC is governed by a volunteer board of directors. 50% of the board members are farmers; the rest are rural residents, educators and business people. The board's current programs are implemented by five full time and two part time staff working with an annual budget of approximately $500,000. Financial support comes from private foundation and federal/state agency grants, membership fees, individual contributions and sales of publications. -- Wisconsin Rural Development Center 4915 Monona Drive, Suite 304 Monona, WI 53716 608/226-0300 fax 608/226-0301 email wrdc@execpc.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley *************************************************************************** * The iffs mailing list facilitates information exchange. * * The sender is responsible for content. * * To remove yourself from this list, send email to majordomo@nal.usda.gov * * with the message text: unsubscribe iffs * *************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 10:03:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13751 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA06997 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:58:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA06906 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04203 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-13-40.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.232]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA22104; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:34:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199904151334.IAA22104@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: Cc: "sanet" Subject: Milk testing for CLA Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:44:14 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 445 We have a group of 20+ farmers (mainly amish) that are seasonal grass dairies that are working on marketing high CLA milk. They are wanting to know of a place to get the CLA of milk tested. Any suggestions? They would also take any suggestions on marketing! I think they are leaning towards cheese production because of the seasonal production of their milk. Will cheese still have higher CLA levels? Thanks in advance, Greg Gunthorp Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 10:23:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14040 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24935 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:30:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24891 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:30:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00B57C5D@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 9:30:40 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 15 Apr 99 09:30:51 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 15 Apr 99 09:30:28 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:30:26 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: chickens In-reply-to: <199904142210.SAA00438@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <2AFBE8470DA@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 446 > OMAHA, NE--According to a U.S. Poultry Council report released Monday, the > collective efforts of the world's 16 billion chickens have yet to yield any > appreciable results. "For thousands of years, chickens worldwide > have put a tremendous amount of energy into their various activities, which > include flapping, squawking and pecking with a great deal of vigor," the > Poultry Council report read. "But it remains unclear > what has been accomplished as a result of their unfocused efforts." Hmmm, wonder if the same could be said of humans? -Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 10:46:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14425 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:53:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from staff2.cso.uiuc.edu (root@staff2.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07007 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bl101-84.nres.uiuc.edu (bl101-84.nres.uiuc.edu [128.174.101.84]) by staff2.cso.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08168 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:53:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990415084704.0078b608@staff.uiuc.edu> X-Sender: aslan@staff.uiuc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:47:04 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Dan Anderson Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #964 In-Reply-To: <199904142210.SAA00438@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 447 Verdanaposted Wednesday, April 14, 1999 =20 VerdanaADM Joins Staley in Rejecting Some Transgenic Corn=20 =20 GeorgiaThe Archer Daniels Midland Co. (ADM), Decatur, IL, yesterday joined its crosstown competitor, A.E. Staley Mfg. Co., in rejecting any genetically modified corn that is not accepted in European Union (EU) markets. In a statement to the media obtained by Grainnet, ADM said: "ADM supports the position of the Corn Refiners Association and National Grain and Feed Association in regard to transfenic corn in that we will not participate in the commerce of the varieties that are not approved by the European Union. If and when the varieties are approved by the European Union, we will participate in the marketing of those grains." Covered under both companies' policy are Roundup Ready corn, which has been genetically engineered to resist damage from Monsanto Co.'s broad-spectrum Roundup herbicide, and certain varieties of Bt corn, which has been modified to produce a toxin that kills certain pests such as European corn borer. Approvals of these products have been held up in the European Union (EU), where public opposition to genetically modified plants is stronger than in the United States. Meanwhile, a front-page article in the Decatur Herald & Review newspaper this morning quoted Pat Mohan, executive vice president at Staley, as saying: "Farmers are being told by their seed suppliers which seed varieties are accepted. We're just asking them to follow that advice." He referred to contracts that state the farmer has agreed not to sell the crop to any outlet that sells overseas. Roundup Ready corn is not expected to be widely grown across the Corn Belt this year. Last year, the product was grown only in test plots, and seed supplies are limited. Doug Wilson, president of the Illinois Corn Growers Association, said he expects 3% of the state's corn crop this year to be of the Roundup Ready type. Depending on who's giving the estimate, Bt corn is being planted on 20% to 40% of U.S. corn acreage this year. Some Bt corn varieties have been approved for import into the EU, but others have not. In his interview with the Herald & Review, Mohan did not say that Staley would test corn that is brought to the plant in Decatur. "Based on our experience with farmers, we don't think that's going to be an issue," he said. "This is nothing that they shouldn't have been doing in the=20 past." Meanwhile, Randy Krotz, director of public and industry affairs for Monsanto Co., St. Louis, MO, which developed the Roundup Ready gene for both corn and soybeans, downplayed the importance of the announcement by Staley and ADM. "In reality, based on our education, Staley should not have been a recipient of Roundup Ready corn, anyway," he said, noting that seed companies have always required farmers to sign contracts for purchasing transgenic seed. Roundup Ready soybeans are accepted by the EU and other U.S. trading partners. VerdanaEmail: 0000,0000,fefewebmaster@grainnet.com 3065 N. Pershing Ct. =95 Decatur, IL 62526 800-728-7511 =95 Fax: 217-877-6647 =20 Dan Anderson Agroecology/Sustainable Agriculture Program University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Dept. of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences W-503 Turner Hall 1102 S. Goodwin Urbana, IL 61801 MC-047 217/333-1588 217/333-7370 fax aslan@uiuc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 12:24:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01324 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:24:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05173 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:50:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eugate.ibmmail.com ([194.196.143.94]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05079 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by eugate.ibmmail.com with SMTP id OAA71694 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:43:25 GMT Received: by LMS01.UNIMAIL.IBM.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 3.1) with snapi via GBLNRG02 id 0039000009170959; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:42:32 +0000 From: "Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE)" To: Subject: British Sustainable Agriculture Websites Message-ID: <0039000009170959000002L092*@MHS> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:42:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA05107 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 448 Dear All, Does anybody have the web addresses for good British sustainable agriculture websites. I am particulalry interested in sites on local products and farm diversification. Regards Paul Cook To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 12:34:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01605 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27317 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:32:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hpamgaab.compuserve.com (ah-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.153]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27195 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.3) id LAA18112 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:29:44 -0400 From: Klaus Wiegand Subject: RE: "toxic level" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <199904151132_MC2-721A-AF3F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 449 hi craig, you wrote: >i would appreciate it if andrew manale or anyone else could >elaborate on the comment that the ec (eu) standard for pesticides >in drinking water is not risk based >thanks, >craig as our institute also is involved in residue analysis, i can (after some talk with our chemists and toxicologists, i myslef am no expert in pesticide analytics) positively confirm, that most of the levels allowed in drinking water evidently are not BASED on toxicological evaluation, but on the "state of the art" of analytical methods and equipment, meaning what is the lowest measureable concentration (also considering the price and the availablity of such equipment). i would call that minimisation of risk unfortunately this CANNOT be GENERALIZED, as another fact will prove the contrary: there were residue levels for certain herbicides and nitrate in drinking water. after seeing the tendency, that agriculture simply fixed the facts and contaminated the groundwater with these components, more and more water distribution services would have been forced to close. consequence: cities with two alternatives a) no drinking water at all b) drinking water with residues well above the levels fixed by law and what was EU legislature's response to that ?? after heavy lobbying of several groups (chemical industry AND farmers) in Bruxelles they simply "fixed" the problem by rising the maximim levels to a value now twice as high as before.. thus they did not solve the problem, they changed the difference between the definition of "legal" and "illegal". and that was nothing but an ECONOMICAL evaluation and certainly NOT risk-based. but remember : at both levels risk was NOT the most important consideration (although it certainly was part of the decision, but in both cases ADI (acceptable daily intake) and ld50% were quite high). unsolved: a) often the risk is not even known (tank mixtures, risks that cannot be evaluated by dissection and microscopy of organs) b) i have very large difficulties to explain, why according to legislative standards an american should be 10 times more sensible to a certain component than an european (or vice versa). which proves - either, that these values are not always based on hard scientific facts but rather (in the positive case) on precaution or (in the negative ones) on settled or given economic facts. - or governments have differents opinions on the value of their citizens. in summary: they are NOT ALWAYS risk-based ! Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 13:58:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03635 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:58:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09317 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09289 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08880 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D79T9BM6; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:52:38 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:40:54 -0700 Subject: Chickens Message-ID: <19990415.094054.4038.5.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3,15,20-21 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 450 The comments by the U.S. Poultry Council saying it "remains unclear what has been accomplished as a result of their [the world's 16 billion chickens] unfocused efforts" struck a nerve for me. What activities do they consider appropriate and focused? The very focused efforts of my small flock of Rhode Island Reds make gardening in the late summer and fall possible here. Before I got chickens, grasshoppers arrived with the summer monsoons in numbers reminiscent of Biblical plagues. And they were still searching for something to munch on when they finally succomed to several days of hard freezes. The grasshoppers ignored weedy shrubs and ate everything cultivated. They even ate holes in the fabric bags with which I tried to protect a few choice plants. Grasshoppers still arrive, but the chickens are delighted to intercept probably 99.99% of them. The chicken yard surrounds my garden on 3 sides and one of my improvement goals is to replace a stretch of 1" mesh chicken wire with a larger mesh so I can more easily chase any escapee grasshoppers back into the chicken yard. I appreciate the "tremendous amount of energy" my chickens put into insect control even if the Poultry Council sees no value to it. In addition, I get wonderful fertilizer and fabulous eggs as an added bonus. I assume the Poultry Council advocates factory farming for eggs and meat. Am I correct? --Edna ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 15:10:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05173 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA15172 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:55:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov [205.156.34.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15103 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arg.csc.noaa.gov (205.156.35.21) by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (Worldmail 1.3.167) for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; 15 Apr 1999 13:55:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3704CBF200003D9F@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov> (added by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov) X-Sender: bbrandt@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:52:45 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Brian Brandt Subject: Stimulating Corn Root Growth In-Reply-To: <199904142210.SAA00438@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA15120 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 451 Hello All: I am looking for information on any products that will help stimulate corn root growth. The Problem: When side-dressing nitrogen or cultivating a growing corn crop, sometimes corn roots can be pruned which slows down the growth and development of a plant causing a reduction in corn yields. The Question: Could some product be applied to the soil when cultivating or applying nitrogen that would stimulate the re-growth of roots thereby reducing the chance of reduced yield caused by root pruning? I have been able to find some information on products that can be applied to woody type plants, but I don't think they are effective on agronomic crops, especially monocot species. Any information would be helpful! Thanks, Brian ************************************************** Brian Brandt Program Assistant Agricultural Conservation Innovation Center 2234 South Hobson Avenue Charleston, SC 29405-2413 Ph. (843) 740-1325 Fx. (843) 740-1331 email: bbrandt@csc.noaa.gov http://www.agconserv.com/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 15:10:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA05175 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA12466 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:53:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com ([207.141.153.190]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12400 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool031-max10.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.181]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 29MFV6MQ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:59:38 -0400 Message-ID: <371626E7.3E80595A@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:50:32 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, tuscarora@innernet.net Subject: Re: chicken house References: <199904142210.SAA00438@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 452 how about using is as part of an organic broiler system? phil gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 16:43:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07657 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA02355 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:22:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA02318 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA20338 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990415152542.007a25a0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:25:42 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Chicken confession... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 453 Though it's a little late for April foolin (but it IS still April), I should confess that the US Poultry Council piece is, well, fake. Hope you liked it! For more wacky satire (some a bit off color) check out theonion.com. Hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers...hee hee. I did enjoy Anita's response! Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 17:24:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08642 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:24:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03945 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:14:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03926 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov [205.156.34.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13651 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megan.csc.noaa.gov (205.156.35.22) by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (Worldmail 1.3.167) for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; 15 Apr 1999 16:14:09 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990415160212.00a74810@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov> X-Sender: mterebus@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:04:15 -0400 To: "sanet" From: Megan Terebus Subject: Two Positions Available In-Reply-To: <199904151334.IAA22104@billman.kuntrynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 454 Please forward this to interested parties. The Agricultural Conservation Innovation Center in Charleston, South Carolina is working with the State of Iowa to develop a new tool to assist farmers in adopting nutrient management practices. ACIC is seeking two contractors to conduct two projects related to this effort immediately. The individuals will not be asked to relocate to Charleston, but internet access is necessary. Interested parties should fax their resume to Jim Cubie at ACIC, (843) 740-1331. Compensation: Negotiable Hiring: Immediately Duration: Summer Qualifications: Graduate training in agriculture with strong familiarity with nutrient management, familiar with creation of spreadsheets, knowledge of information gathering sources 1. Nutrient Management Information Collection: In many states, extension and other researchers have conducted studies of nutrient management systems. The collection of this information could provide a valuable data set for developing insurance policies to protect farmers who are adopting nutrient management systems. It will also permit a comparison of the operation of systems in different localities, which will assist overall rating reliability. ACIC seeks a contractor to conduct a thorough search for all available data on legume/manure crediting systems for major legume (alfalfa, clover, etc.) and manure (pork, dairy, poultry, beef, etc.). Manure should be split between liquid and dry forms. He/she will also collect available data related to nutrient management protocols from commercial sources of nitrogen. Finally, the individual will include a collection of peer reviewed and extension published and unpublished material. 2. Expert Panel Coordinator : An individual is needed to coordinate an expert panel review session to assess information needed to develop risk management instruments, which increase nutrient management system adoption by farmers. The expert panel would examine such issues as how weather events during the critical nutrient up-take period can determine outer bounds of risk, whether crop growth models or weather models can be used to derive actuarially significant information, and other systems that may derive such information. About ACIC: The Agricultural Conservation Innovation Center is a Project of the American Farmland Trust Working to Find Private Sector Solutions to Farm Conservation Challenges ACIC: -works with farmers and farm organizations to develop risk management policies which increase farmer acceptance of integrated pest management, nutrient management and conservation tillage systems -works with farm related organizations to help their members adopt new conservation systems www.agconserv.com Phone 843-740-1329 Fax: 843-740-1331 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Megan Terebus Farm Program Developer Agricultural Conservation Innovation Center 2234 South Hobson Avenue Charleston, SC 29418 Ph. (843) 740-1326 Fx. (843) 740-1331 email: megan.terebus@agconserv.com www.agconserv.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 17:41:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08894 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA08075 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:25:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.umext.maine.edu (mail.umext.maine.edu [130.111.109.92]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08065 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:25:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tgriffin (tgriffin.umepsw.maine.edu [130.111.60.236]) by mail.umext.maine.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 2YFK6VMA; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:22:25 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:23:14 -0400 Message-ID: <01BE875C.43282D00.tgriffin@umext.maine.edu> From: Tim Griffin Reply-To: "tgriffin@umext.maine.edu" To: "'sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Weed Ecology Position-Univ. of Maine Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:23:13 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 455 Assistant Professor -- Weed Ecology & Management. Tenure track, academic year appointment; 40% teaching; 60% research. This faculty position will require an educational and teaching/research background in weed ecology and management. The successful candidate is expected to develop a vigorous research program that focuses on weed management and sustainable approaches to agricultural production (e.g. enhancing profitability, soil quality and productivity, and/or minimizing inputs of nonrenewable resources). The research is expected to address important state and regional needs and involve effective interaction with agricultural constituencies and other faculty. The successful candidate will develop and teach an upper-level course in weed ecology & management and an introductory course in sustainable agriculture. Participation in undergraduate and graduate education through teaching and advising is expected. Opportunities exist to participate in a multi-disciplinary cropping systems trial and also to advise a student-run community supported agriculture project. A Ph.D. in an appropriate agricultural science is required and must be earned or near completion by start date of appointment. Additional requirements: 1) demonstrated effectiveness in teaching and research, particularly related to sustainable agricultural practices; 2) effective communication skills and ability to interact productively with scientists from other disciplines and constituents in the broader agricultural community. Experience in weed management for vegetable crops, research grant development, and the use of multi-disciplinary systems approaches to solving agricultural problems is desired. The position is available September 1, 1999. Applicants must submit a cover letter stating research and teaching interests, vitae, official transcripts, and letters from three references to Dr. Gregory Porter, Department of Plant, Soil & Environmental Sciences, 5722 Deering Hall, University of Maine, Orono, Maine 04469-5722 (email: Porter@maine.edu). Application review will begin on July 15, 1999. The University of Maine is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 15 17:48:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09012 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA08634 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:26:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.umext.maine.edu (mail.umext.maine.edu [130.111.109.92]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08506 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tgriffin (tgriffin.umepsw.maine.edu [130.111.60.236]) by mail.umext.maine.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id 2YFK6VMD; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:23:30 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:24:20 -0400 Message-ID: <01BE875C.6A1D5200.tgriffin@umext.maine.edu> From: Tim Griffin Reply-To: "tgriffin@umext.maine.edu" To: "'sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Sustainable Crop Production Position: Univ. of Maine Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:24:18 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 456 Assistant Professor -- Sustainable Crop Production. Tenure track, full-time academic year appointment; 80% teaching; 20% research. The successful candidate is expected to develop and teach two introductory courses, plant science (every year) and cropping systems (alternate year). Additional teaching responsibilities will include an upper-level course in the candidate's area of expertise (e.g. sustainable vegetable production, integrated crop and livestock production, or sustainable cropping systems), participation in an agricultural ecosystem design and management course, and coordination of orientation classes for new students. The successful candidate will coordinate the University of Maine's B.S. program in Sustainable Agriculture and advise a student-run community supported agriculture project. Participation in graduate education is expected. The successful candidate is expected to develop a research program that focuses on sustainable approaches to agricultural production (e.g. enhancing soil quality and productivity, minimizing inputs of nonrenewable resources, and improving profitability,). The research is expected to address important state and regional needs and involve effective interaction with agricultural constituencies and other faculty. Qualifications: Ph.D. in an appropriate agricultural science (must be earned or near completion before an applicant will be considered); educational background and teaching/research experience in an appropriate crop science (e.g. management, physiology, and/or ecology); demonstrated effectiveness in teaching and research; teaching/research experience in alternative agricultural practices. Excellent written and verbal communication skills and demonstrated ability to interact effectively with scientists from other disciplines, constituents in the broader agricultural community, and a diverse student population. Experience in vegetable crop management, grant development, and the use of multi-disciplinary systems approaches to solving agricultural problems is desirable. The position is available September 1, 1999. Applicants must submit a cover letter stating research and teaching interests, vitae, official transcripts, and letters from three references to Dr. Gregory Porter, Department of Plant, Soil & Environmental Sciences, 5722 Deering Hall, University of Maine, Orono, Maine 04469-5722 (email: Porter@maine.edu). Application review will begin on June 15, 1999. The University of Maine is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 16 05:40:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA20988 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA03925 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 04:57:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.iitb.ac.in (mailhost.iitb.ac.in [202.54.44.115]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id EAA03636 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 04:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24888 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 09:06:34 -0000 Received: from manashi.hss.iitb.ernet.in (144.16.104.2) by mailhost.iitb.ac.in with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 09:06:34 -0000 Received: from localhost (dp@localhost) by manashi.hss.iitb.ernet.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA03480 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:18:45 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:18:45 +0530 (IST) From: "d.parthasarathy" To: sanet-mg Subject: Re: chickens In-Reply-To: <2AFBE8470DA@agecon.uga.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 457 On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > > OMAHA, NE--According to a U.S. Poultry Council report released Monday, the > > collective efforts of the world's 16 billion chickens have yet to yield any > > appreciable results. "For thousands of years, chickens worldwide > > have put a tremendous amount of energy into their various activities, which > > include flapping, squawking and pecking with a great deal of vigor," the > > Poultry Council report read. "But it remains unclear > > what has been accomplished as a result of their unfocused efforts." > > Hmmm, wonder if the same could be said of humans? -Anita> Whatever the genuiness of the above report, it reminded me of what I have read somewhere of the power of advertising. Why do most people who eat eggs prefer chicken eggs over those of ducks? Because hens squack, flap and make such a song and dance about it that we are forced to take note of it. Au contraire, ducks so nothing of that kind and so are left to incubate its eggs till they hatch. On a more serious note, sometime or the other sustag movement has to seriously engage with the power of advertising. Apart from the fact that much of today's unsustainable consumption pattern is propelled by advertising, farmers who go in for organic, who want to sell local, or directly to consumers etc. often do not possess professional marketing and advertising skills to wean away consumers from earlier consumption patterns. This does not mean however that we should go in for the same techniques. Far from it. My own view on the above story is that the ducks are wiser. By and large they have been left alone. Adertsising have made us consume things that we do not want, and has passed off stuff as highly desirable that actually hide a whole lot of hidden effects for the environment, society, family and the indivdual. At a recent workshop, on issues of pedagogy and curriculum for an environmental sociology course, one of the debates was regarding sensitizing students, especially technology students to environmental issues. Teachers find that very often they have to contend with "knowledge" that students acquire from the media and advertizing. My question is how does the sustainable agriculture movement prevent itself from remaining a duck in the pond while retaining the freedom and and developing the capability to let itself grow? Thanks for listening D.Parthasarathy Department of Humanities and Social Sciences Indian Institute of Technology, Powai Mumbai, 400076, India Phone: 091 022 576 7372 email: dp@hss.iitb.ernet.in To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 16 05:40:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA20992 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 05:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA22478 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 04:38:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA22163 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 04:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp53-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.53]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA03679 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:38:25 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: "toxic level" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:49:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000a01be87e6$05b18360$353325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199904151132_MC2-721A-AF3F@compuserve.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 458 This comment by Klaus Wiegland: >as our institute also is involved in residue analysis, i can (after some talk with our chemists and toxicologists, i myslef am no expert in pesticide analytics) positively confirm, that most of the levels allowed in drinking water evidently are not BASED on toxicological evaluation, but on the "state of the art" of analytical methods and equipment, meaning what is the lowest measureable concentration (also considering the price and the availablity of such equipment). i would call that minimisation of risk reminds me of the great uproar in Sydney [Australia] last year, with discovery of 'high' levels of cryptosporidium and giardia in Sydney water and directions to the whole population - 3 million or so - to boil drinking water. Information at: http://headlines.yahoo.com/Full_Coverage/AUNZ/Polluted_Water_in_Sydney While there are industrial-origin substances entering waterways around the world which may have very serious consequences at minute concentration, the situation we had here was one, to crudely summarise, in which new tests with new equipment detected levels of water borne organisms, probably present in the past, perhaps present in other cities (Sydney now having the most sophisticated testing gear in the country), endemic [giardia] in native fauna which have free run of catchments. The directive that no one was to cook in, clean teeth in, wash food in, etc the water supply was ignored by quite a lot of people, but not of course by people facing public liability. There was no change in the incidence of related disease reported during the scare. So the state of the art of analysis apparently advanced beyond real scientific or administrative understanding of the risk, which fell into the hands of lawyers, politicians and the media. You can probably safely go to the 2000 Olympics, but I would advise you not to share your bath with an incontinent kangaroo. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 16 12:45:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27048 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA23669 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:42:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA23639 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([167.114.21.47]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:41:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3717681D.AA50FA0@acnet.net> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:41:02 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "d.parthasarathy" CC: sanet-mg Subject: Re: chickens References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 459 I've largely ignored this mostly inconsequential thread, but d.parthasarathy raised a number of valid and interesting points: d.parthasarathy wrote: > On a more serious note, sometime or the other sustag movement has to > seriously engage with the power of advertising. ...This does not mean however > that we should go in for the same techniques. Too many resources are being captured (and wasted) in useless activities carried out by uncommitted (and often cynical) individuals supported by institutions without adequate leadership or direction, whose policies are likewise often insensitive to more fundamental issues. However, my purpose here is to point out the need for getting adequate funding for worthy activities. Perhaps more than advertising, a better organized global information infrastructure is needed. Before saying any more I'm going to do a little more research on it - but I'd welcome any constructive comments relevant to that concept. > My own view on the above story is that the ducks are wiser. Comparing ducks and chickens: Ducks are much more independent - chickens are generally domesticated. Chickens eat feces and will kill their own kind with frequency. Ducks are much cleaner and better organized, socially. They are more noble. Ducks will easily survive scorpion bites, while chickens succumb rapidly. > By and large they have been left alone. Unfortunately, ducks are hunted (although this is sometimes limited to a "hunting season", with "hunting licenses"). > Advertsising have made us consume things that we do not want, and ...that > actually hide a whole lot of hidden effects for the environment, society, family > and the indivdual. > > At a recent workshop, on issues of pedagogy and curriculum for an > environmental sociology course, one of the debates was regarding > sensitizing students, especially technology students to environmental > issues. Teachers find that very often they have to contend with > "knowledge" that students acquire from the media and advertizing. > My question is how does the sustainable agriculture movement prevent > itself from remaining a duck in the pond while retaining the freedom and > and developing the capability to let itself grow? By organizing in such a way that provides for an increased interchange and flow of both needed information and funding. This requires providing public access to those that share similar development criteria. Perhaps that brings us back to advertising, or just sanet and beyond. Ducks fly a lot farther than chickens. Problem is, they don't own any of their own ponds. So for now, they either keep moving or stick to established reserves (friendly to ducks). At the point where things are well enough defined, founded, organized, and demonstrated; the mass media, public, govt. and edu. community will pick it up. But somebody(s) got to do the ground work and provide the focus. The rest is magnification; the snowball growing faster and faster as it gains weight rolling downhill. > Thanks for listening > > D.Parthasarathy > Department of Humanities and Social Sciences > Indian Institute of Technology, Powai > Mumbai, 400076, India > Phone: 091 022 576 7372 > email: dp@hss.iitb.ernet.in > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Douglas M. Hinds, Director General Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 (Street Address) Apdo. Postal No. 61 (Mailing Address) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412 6308 (direct) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 16 15:19:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00594 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA15977 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:23:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15927 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mark (SantaCruz160.got.net [209.66.100.160]) by always.got.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA41667 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990416112527.006f93d0@mail.got.net> X-Sender: research@mail.got.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:25:29 -0700 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: Exchange betweeen Avery and the Wallace Institute Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 460 WALLACE INSTITUTE DIALOGUE WITH AVERY To Sanet: Thought some of you might be interested in tracking this. The following statement is the latest round in an exchange between the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture and Dennis Avery, concerning his statements attacking organic foods and farmers. Wallace Institute issued a press release on Feb.3rd responding to Avery's allegations (see ) Avery's Hudson Institute responded with a defense (see ). The Wallace folks have recently responded with the following letter to Mr. Avery, posted on the Wallace Web site at . This material is being shared with the permission of the H.A. Wallace Insitute/ This message forwarded by Mark Lipson Organic Farming Research Foundation Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture Letter to Dennis Avery Responding to his statement regarding the Wallace Institute Press Release dated February 3, 1999 March 23, 1999 Dennis Avery Center for Global Food Issues Hudson Institute P.O. Box 202 Churchville, VA 24421 Dear Dennis: This letter, to be posted on our Web site, is intended to correct the errors and misrepresentations in the undated statement on your Web site, "Wallace Institute got it wrong: CDC data does indicate higher risk from organic and natural foods." We stand firmly behind our February 3, 1999 press release, "Contrary to Avery article, CDC has never conducted study of the risk of organic food." The CDC reviewed that press release before we issued it and approved its content as accurate. Indeed, what we have learned since issuing our press release affirms our assessment that you have incorrectly interpreted the CDC data and drawn inappropriate conclusions about the health risks from consuming organic foods. First and foremost, we trust the highly respected Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to be the most credible scientific source of information on these issues. Consider their statements in our press release: "...the CDC did not have any such research currently in the works, nor was it planning to conduct any in the future because such research was 'not warranted.' 'We are not planning any research on organic and natural foods.'" These official statements speak loudly and clearly. Second, the lack of scientific rigor in your analysis has led you to draw incorrect conclusions. The heart of your allegations in the American Outlook article, and implied in your Web site statement, is that the use of manure as a nutrient source to grow organic foods exposes the consumer to excessive risks of E. coli O157:H7, because the foods may be contaminated from contact with the manure in the soil. According to our interpretation of your analytical methods, which you did not make clear in your article, you counted the 47 cases of E. coli O157:H7 in Connecticut and Illinois in 1996, which were attributed to lettuce from a California organic farm. But those cases of contamination were not from manure used to produce the lettuce. According to The New York Times (January 5, 1998), the contamination was suspected to come from a small pen of cattle next to the barn where the lettuce was being packed. Evidently, the manure migrated from the pen to the lettuce packing system in the barn because of inadequate safety practices, although the farm denied responsibility for the illnesses. We support the design and operation of agricultural production systems that avoid these potential sources of contamination. But, even if the contamination came from the cattle pen, it was not due to the organic production methods used to produce the lettuce. Thus, the illnesses were not due to the organic production system, i.e., from manure use on the soil as you imply. This type of contamination could just as well occur at a non-organic lettuce operation that is exposed to manure drift from the farm or nearby operations. Based on our reading of the 1996 CDC data that you report in your Web site statement, this is the only case that you attribute to organic food, and it is now clear that it was not due to the organic production system. Moreover, a credible scientific protocol would never draw such broad-sweeping conclusions, veiled as hypotheses, using one data point in one year, even if it were accurate, which it is not in this case. Other errors by you were reported in The New York Times story, "Anti-Organic and Flawed," on February 17, 1999. A prime example is your labeling of unpasteurized Odwalla apple juice as organic in your American Outlook article, when it was not. Hence, the largest number of illnesses (71) on the 1996 CDC list of E. coli O157:H7 infections were inappropriately included in your analysis. Similarly, your assertion that the high levels of Salmonella found in free-range chickens, which were reported in the Consumer Reports 1998 article, were an indication of the risks of organic food, was wrong also. We note that you have now expanded the allegations to include "organic and natural foods" to correct the error that you made in your original analysis and article. This is not an acceptable scientific protocol. Peer-review of your American Outlook article would have caught these fundamental errors. Your campaign to tarnish the reputation of one of the most vital growth sectors in the U.S. food industry with unfounded allegations and half truths is transparent. The Henry A. Wallace Institute was founded to build a stronger scientific base to evaluate alternative agricultural practices, using accepted scientific protocols, such as peer review. We suggest that the Hudson Institute and American Outlook would do well to emulate this example. Sincerely, I. Garth Youngberg, Ph.D. Executive Director David E. Ervin, Ph.D. Director, Policy Studies Program Katherine L. Clancy, Ph.D. Director, Agriculture Policy Project Kathleen Merrigan Senior Analyst, Capitol Hill Office To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 16 17:52:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03588 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA13823 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:55:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA13759 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA06193 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA00024; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:55:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199904161955.OAA00024@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:55:39 -0500 Subject: Breeding resistance to BSE CC: fhbuttel@facstaff.wisc.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 461 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you prion-watchers. pax misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BSE: BREEDING RESISTANCE **************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: 12 April, 1999 From: Jane Pritchard Source: FSNET, Science Daily [edited] The complete original article is available through American Chemical Society (http://www.acs.org/) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/04/990412075427.htm The research is detailed in the peer-reviewed journal Biochemistry, published by the American Chemical Society (ACS), the world's largest scientific society. It was released on the ACS Web April 9 and appears in the print edition of the journal on April 27. University of California researchers say a newly determined structure of the biological particles called prions may help explain how they cause infectious deadly diseases. Aberrant prions cause scrapie in sheep, bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE or "mad cow disease") in cows, and various afflictions in people. The scientists say their finding might explain prion disease variety and eventually lead to breeding disease-resistant animals. Prions are proteins normally found in the brain of all animals. Changes in their three-dimensional structure can cause infectious, fatal neurodegenerative disorders. Further, altered prions seem to act as templates that convert normal prions to the infectious form. Relatively few people suffer from prion diseases, but they cause large problems in sheep flocks and cattle herds. The disease rarely passes between species, but there is evidence that people can be infected by eating tainted beef. The economic and political consequences of such scares have made understanding the novel mechanisms of prion diseases a very visible quest. Dr. Stanley B. Prusiner, from the University of California at San Francisco (UCSF), was awarded the 1997 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for discovering prions. He is a collaborator on the current Biochemistry paper. "Our structural studies show that an important part of the prion protein exhibits multiple structures," according to co-author and UCSF pharmaceutical chemist Thomas L. James, Ph.D. He says specific area "marks the region susceptible to the structural change from the normal cellular form to the infectious form of the protein." James adds that "the multiple structures evident are probably related to the different types of prion diseases which an individual can potentially get." Prion variants affect different parts of the human brain, causing either Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), Fatal Familial Insomnia (FFI), Kuru, or Gerstmann-Straussler-Scheinker (GSS) disease. To reduce risks to laboratory workers, the scientists studied a prion protein from Syrian hamsters. They describe the normal prion structure and show the region of structural instability. James says that area coincides with a sequence of genetic instructions in which different mutations can lead to various diseases. Further, he claims that their structure provides a chemical explanation for the variety of infectious prions. Previous epidemiological studies, in both humans and sheep, showed individuals with positively charged amino acid residues in certain regions of their normal prions do not get prion diseases. James says their 3-D structure shows those residues to be fairly close to one another. "This suggests," he asserts, "that breeding animals with mutations to positively charged residues in that region will produce a scrapie-resistant or BSE (mad cow disease) -resistant herd." - --- Jane Pritchard <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis: Anarcho-syndicalism is a way of *preserving* freedom! His Wife: Oh, Dennis, *forget* about freedom! We 'aven't got enough mud! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 16 18:26:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA04224 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA15306 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:43:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15278 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08619 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA05020 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:43:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199904162143.QAA05020@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:42:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Pineapple prophets In-reply-to: <3712DAAF.39833A98@acnet.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 462 Howdy all-- > > Michele wrote: > > > The whole agricultural system (incl. permaculture) human management > > through and through. No, I didn't write that. I wrote my short reflection (about 100 words) on breeding re: pineapples. I questioned whether organic ag should be basing its research questions solely on perceived "consumer demand," which in my mind amounts to a mindset similar to the industrial food system's. Then I was gone for close to a week. Doug, and others, if you're going to come after me, kindly base it on things I've actually written, rather than what you think I've written. And kindly stick to what I've written, rather than your interpretations of that. This is not the first time this has happened on SANET. I raised a question about what "organic" means. I based that question on the conversations I had with a couple-five dozen organic farmers in Salem, Oregon, last month, at the Farmer Cooperative Genome Project meetings. Not to mention my own experience as a (noncertified) organic grower over the past 25 years. And many conversations with organic growers, inspectors, and others, over the past 20 years. As for Grace and me being called "girls," the dictionary definition of that term is "A female who has not yet attained womanhood." This would not be the first time that a man attempted to infantilize women with whom he disagrees, or by whom he has been piqued. But it is very dismaying to see such disrespect among this group. Finally, Doug, you wrote: > Mishas is not fazed by my "constructive" criticism for 3 reasons: > > She is a mature and thoughtful person. > She knows I like her. > She knows I'm right, in this instance. It is presumptuous in the extreme to speak of another person in this way. If you want to know what I'm feeling or how I'm interpreting, kindly ask me. It is not up to you to represent my, or anyone's, feelings, opinions, or interpretations, to this group or elsewhere. You do not know what I know. Of course, what matters above all is that you be right. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Community--that's what Jah say. --Alpha Blondy To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 16 21:29:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06471 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA04735 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA04720 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA10944 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acnet.net ([167.114.21.47]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:47:28 -0500 Message-ID: <3717E811.E019AE4D@acnet.net> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:46:58 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Organization: CeDeCoR X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "\"Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison\"" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Pineapple prophets References: <199904162143.QAA05020@aae.wisc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 463 Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison wrote: > Howdy all-- > > > >... I questioned whether organic ag should be basing its > research questions solely on perceived "consumer demand," Solely no, partially si. The problem here is that pineapple has un unusally short season when left to flower naturally - which I would agree, is best; and this has repercussions that affect those who depend on the crop for their livelihood. There are as yet unresolved conflicts there. > Doug, and others, if you're going to come after me, kindly base it > on things I've actually written, rather than what you think I've > written. And kindly stick to what I've written, rather than your > interpretations of that. This is not the first time this has happened > on SANET. That can happen and is best remedied by further clarification. Don't know about coming after you though. In fact I had let it go. I replied to Dales post and mentioned that I did feel you weren't taking into account the same things I was, or weren't giving them the same weight. That's all. > I raised a question about what "organic" means. That too is an open question subject to individual interpretation and measured by meaningful logic, examples, analogies and precedents. > I based that question on the conversations I had with a couple-five > dozen organic farmers in Salem, Oregon, last month, at the Farmer > Cooperative Genome Project meetings. Not to mention my own > experience as a (noncertified) organic grower over the past 25 years. > And many conversations with organic growers, inspectors, and others, > over the past 20 years. I'm sure there was a basis for it and respect you opinion but in the case of pineapple's flowering, there are other intervening factors that to my mind take precedent. I'm much more concerned with the metabolic imbalance that exists in grafted trees and their fruit, but I'm not calling for the market for them to be wiped out, because that would create havoc within the existing industry, even if I don't eat the stuff myself. (Which I don't). I WOULD like to see select seedling fruit available on the market and labeled as such. That's the only beginning that makes sense to me. As a corollary, pineapple from plants whose flowering was not induced could be marketed as such, and in that way consumers could become educated as to the fact that there IS a difference, and make up their own minds as to the importance of that. I myself DO eat pineapple who's flowering was induced, but DON'T eat pineapple whose maturation was accelerated, nor pineapple whose maturation was retarded. And there are both philosophical and pragmatic reasons for my taking that position. > As for Grace and me being called "girls," the dictionary definition > of that term is "A female who has not yet attained womanhood." This > would not be the first time that a man attempted to infantilize women > with whom he disagrees, or by whom he has been piqued. But it is very > dismaying to see such disrespect among this group. No disrespect whatsoever was meant as far as you are concerned by that statement, and I think I'm the appropriate one to speak for my own motivation. Aside from that, im MY dictionary (Webster's New World College Edition, 1959); defintion # 2 is: A young unmarried WOMAN (emphasis added), while definition # 4 is: A woman of any age, married or single. (I will be happy to share my dictionary with you). > Finally, Doug, you wrote: > > > Mishas is not fazed by my "constructive" criticism for 3 reasons: > > > > She is a mature and thoughtful person. > > She knows I like her. > > She knows I'm right, in this instance. > > It is presumptuous in the extreme to speak of another person in this > way. If you want to know what I'm feeling or how I'm interpreting, > kindly ask me. It is not up to you to represent my, or anyone's, > feelings, opinions, or interpretations, to this group or elsewhere. > You do not know what I know. One the one hand, I said that somewhat tongue in cheek. On the other, I can do that and let you correct it. And on the third hand, my intuition in relation to your reactions may have a basis and could be accurate. > Of course, what matters above all is that you be right. What matters is that I MAY be right. But obviously, you have something to say about that too. The MOST important issue is being sincere, and congruent (sez me). > peace > misha Agreed. > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems > UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences > Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 > http://www.wisc.edu/cias > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Community--that's what Jah say. --Alpha Blondy > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) - (non profit) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Apr 17 10:33:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11842 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18219 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:36:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18117 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA19452 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:36:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199904171336.JAA19452@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: cover crop seed To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:36:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 464 Friends - I am looking for sources of Austrian Winter Peas, Bell Beans, Sweet Clover, etc, for use on our farm in SE Ohio. I have the 1999 Peaceful Valley Catalog here - they sell it all, including 13 types of clover, plus sweet clover - but alas, they're in California! It would cost me $75 in shipping to get a couple of sacks of peas shipped here. Anybody know of any sources closer to Ohio? Thanks much, Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Apr 17 10:33:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11846 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA22071 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:47:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (root@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22014 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (s8.max1.sb.rain.org [198.68.144.215]) by coyote.rain.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA21785; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005001be88d8$af7ef880$d79044c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , , Subject: Fw: reality Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 06:45:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01BE889D.DB586940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 465 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BE889D.DB586940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Harry Shnurman=20 To: sals@rain.org=20 Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 6:20 PM Subject: reality LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS I am writing to you today to = express my concerns about the way the local and city government are = moving with plans for the future, that have no security or hope for the = dignity or lifestyle for the small farmers of Madison County. I have = been farming in Madison County for 20 years---six of my seven children = were born in this house---when I came here my vision was to have a = legacy of a lifestyle of land stewardship, which is a blessing, to pass = on to my children's children's ,children..that vision is being = dismantled by no planning from our officials, (city, county, state, or = federal) and by them allowing the realtors, mortgage bankers and the = home developers to muscle their way into this county with their lure of = easy money by enticing the farmers with greed, to become sell outs to = the big money capitalist that are only concerned with the bottom line of = net profit and not what can be done on a whole for the betterment of the = entire community. We small farmers have no support, we have no voice, we = have no hope ,when our officials are fulfilling their own agenda's that = pertain to special interest groups that have their big money lobbyist = with their hands in the pockets of the leaders that are suppose to be = the voice of the people, when it actually is the voice of who has the = most money. Money to buy votes, money to buy legislation, money to buy = county, state and federal elections, this to me is a clear sign that we = are dealing with two distinct class's of people---the rich against the = poor -the haves against the have not's---this is not Kosovo where they = are shooting guns and firing tanks to decide which class of people will = remain with their ethnic cleaning policy-this is America where the same = separation of classes of people are being cleansed out , not by guns and = tanks but rather by MONEY, GREED, and FEAR---the rich must always live = in fear that their mass wealth will not crumble, so the rich deceive the = people and government to think that our salvation is by investing into = their self serving interest in order for the rest of humanity to = survive, and to this point the delusion that the corporates have held us = under has worked. The corporates have destroyed the small hog producers, = they have destroyed the cattle producers, and are now about to embark = upon controlling all of the raw commodities that are grown in the U.S. = When Lugar of Ind. dismantled the farm bill , he was acting on the = lobbying advice of ADM, Cargil, Con-Agra, Continental Grain, to turn the = farmers loose to the free market enterprise system, knowing that those = corporate conglomerates, control the C.B.O.T.(the free market) by their = ability to buy or sell millions of bushels of commodities everyday on = the free market and that , that activity is the determining factor as to = which way the markets move(up or down)-that to me is a monopoly-that is = a conspiracy to not have any control on SUPPLY, and with no set aside = program this year to control SUPPLY-and with an estimation of 78 million = acres of corn(at trend line yield translates to another 10 billion = bushel corn crop) and almost the same acres for beans(which will be = another record breaking yield),the corporate big MONEY conglomerates = have been very successful at assuring that their raw commodities input = for 1999 will be one of the cheapest ever and that their profits will be = in 1999 one of the highest ever-BUT where dose that leave me and my = family and my neighbors-only to the mercy of the corporates---GOD = FORBID-I need help-not in the form of money-not in the form of physical = strength; But what I am asking for is a level playing field---where is our white = corn processing plant so we can make our own tortillas and our own corn = chips,--where is our own clear helium soybean plant, so we don't have to = plant #2 yellow corn and #2 yellow soybeans for the corporate = conglomerates, where is our own beef and pork processing plant for = Madison county so our producers are not at the mercy of IBPand Excell = which are subsidiaries of the corporate conglomerates, where are our = value added food programs so we can grow our own vegetables , and create = some diversity in our lifestyle---why are we in Iowa importing 80 to 90 = percent (Patty Judge Ag secretary says) of our food goods in to the = state instead of raising for our selves and for export instead, where is = our Madison County ethanol plant. We need to have these uncertainties = removed from the minds of our fellow citizens so that we can restore = dignity, integrity, and confidence into all classes of people that there = is equality in this great nation---stop showing the favoritism to the = rich and lets start showing kindness , gratitude, and generosity to the = hard workers, and physical laborers, which are the back bone of America. = here is a little motto that I live by---Have you had a kindness = shown??----Pass it on ---T'was not given to thee alone !!! Pass it = on---Let it travel down the years, Let it wipe anothers tears ---now in = Zion the deed appears ---Pass it on!!!!!! Let's pass this uniquely = fertile farm ground on to our children, or to those young future farmers = of America who are waiting for an opportunity to step into a lifestyle = free from agricultural economic bondage. In the name of Life , Liberty , and the Pursuit of Happiness let us cone = together so that we as citizens of Madison County(and the rest of the = nation) don't find ourselves having to rely on the enticement of GREED , = MONEY , and FEAR from the corporate conglomerates to be our leaders into = the 21st century. Sincerely and Respectfully, Harry Shnurman Madison County Farmer Friday, April 16, 1999 ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BE889D.DB586940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

     
    check out a organic growers web page
    http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.h= tml
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Harry = Shnurman=20
    Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 6:20 PM
    Subject: reality

    LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS I am = writing to you=20 today to express my concerns about the way the local and city government = are=20 moving with plans for the future, that have no security or hope for the = dignity=20 or lifestyle for the small farmers of Madison County. I have been = farming in=20 Madison County for 20 years---six of my seven children were born in this = house---when I came here my vision was to have a legacy of a lifestyle = of land=20 stewardship, which is a blessing, to pass on to my children’s = children’s=20 ,children….that vision is being dismantled by no planning from our = officials,=20 (city, county, state, or federal) and by them allowing the realtors, = mortgage=20 bankers and the home developers to muscle their way into this county = with their=20 lure of easy money by enticing the farmers with greed, to become sell = outs to=20 the big money capitalist that are only concerned with the bottom line of = net=20 profit and not what can be done on a whole for the betterment of the = entire=20 community. We small farmers have no support, we have no voice, we have = no hope=20 ,when our officials are fulfilling their own agenda’s that pertain = to special=20 interest groups that have their big money lobbyist with their hands in = the=20 pockets of the leaders that are suppose to be the voice of the people, = when it=20 actually is the voice of who has the most money. Money to buy votes, = money to=20 buy legislation, money to buy county, state and federal elections, this = to me is=20 a clear sign that we are dealing with two distinct class’s of = people---the rich=20 against the poor –the haves against the have not’s---this is = not Kosovo where=20 they are shooting guns and firing tanks to decide which class of people = will=20 remain with their ethnic cleaning policy—this is America where the = same=20 separation of classes of people are being cleansed out , not by guns and = tanks=20 but rather by MONEY, GREED, and FEAR---the rich must always live in fear = that=20 their mass wealth will not crumble, so the rich deceive the people and=20 government to think that our salvation is by investing into their self = serving=20 interest in order for the rest of humanity to survive, and to this point = the=20 delusion that the corporates have held us under has worked. The = corporates have=20 destroyed the small hog producers, they have destroyed the cattle = producers, and=20 are now about to embark upon controlling all of the raw commodities that = are=20 grown in the U.S. When Lugar of Ind. dismantled the farm bill , he was = acting on=20 the lobbying advice of ADM, Cargil, Con-Agra, Continental Grain, to turn = the=20 farmers loose to the free market enterprise system, knowing that those = corporate=20 conglomerates, control the C.B.O.T.(the free market) by their ability to = buy or=20 sell millions of bushels of commodities everyday on the free market and = that ,=20 that activity is the determining factor as to which way the markets = move(up or=20 down)—that to me is a monopoly—that is a conspiracy to not = have any control on=20 SUPPLY, and with no set aside program this year to control = SUPPLY—and with an=20 estimation of 78 million acres of corn(at trend line yield translates to = another=20 10 billion bushel corn crop) and almost the same acres for beans(which = will be=20 another record breaking yield),the corporate big MONEY conglomerates = have been=20 very successful at assuring that their raw commodities input for 1999 = will be=20 one of the cheapest ever and that their profits will be in 1999 one of = the=20 highest ever—BUT where dose that leave me and my family and my = neighbors—only to=20 the mercy of the corporates---GOD FORBID—I need help—not in = the form of=20 money—not in the form of physical strength;

     

     

     

     

    But what I am asking for is a level playing field---where is our = white corn=20 processing plant so we can make our own tortillas and our own corn = chips,--where=20 is our own clear helium soybean plant, so we don’t have to plant = #2 yellow corn=20 and #2 yellow soybeans for the corporate conglomerates, where is our own = beef=20 and pork processing plant for Madison county so our producers are not at = the=20 mercy of IBPand Excell which are subsidiaries of the corporate = conglomerates,=20 where are our value added food programs so we can grow our own = vegetables , and=20 create some diversity in our lifestyle---why are we in Iowa importing 80 = to 90=20 percent (Patty Judge Ag secretary says) of our food goods in to the = state=20 instead of raising for our selves and for export instead, where is our = Madison=20 County ethanol plant. We need to have these uncertainties removed from = the minds=20 of our fellow citizens so that we can restore dignity, integrity, and = confidence=20 into all classes of people that there is equality in this great = nation---stop=20 showing the favoritism to the rich and lets start showing kindness , = gratitude,=20 and generosity to the hard workers, and physical laborers, which are the = back=20 bone of America… here is a little motto that I live by---Have you = had a kindness=20 shown??----Pass it on ---T’was not given to thee alone !!! Pass it = on---Let it=20 travel down the years, Let it wipe anothers tears ---now in Zion the = deed=20 appears ---Pass it on!!!!!! Let’s pass this uniquely fertile farm = ground on to=20 our children, or to those young future farmers of America who are = waiting for an=20 opportunity to step into a lifestyle free from agricultural economic=20 bondage.

    In the name of Life , Liberty , and the Pursuit of Happiness let us = cone=20 together so that we as citizens of Madison County(and the rest of the = nation)=20 don’t find ourselves having to rely on the enticement of GREED , = MONEY , and=20 FEAR from the corporate conglomerates to be our leaders into the 21st=20 century.

    Sincerely and=20 Respectfully,

    Harry Shnurman

    Madison County Farmer

    Friday, April 16, 1999

    ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01BE889D.DB586940-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Apr 17 13:55:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13530 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28703 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:18:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28680 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA02560 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:18:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199904171718.NAA02560@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Vinton Soybean prices To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:18:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 466 Friends - anybody know what a bushel of certified Vinton soybeans fetches nowadays? And what the average per-acre yield is? Thanks much, Kevin Smyth ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Apr 17 17:20:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15250 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA28038 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:39:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from arl-img-11.compuserve.com (arl-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.217.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28025 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id QAA04125 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:35:10 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Outdoor animals To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199904171638_MC2-7264-A34E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 467 Mark in massachusetts wants to raise a small flock of chickens. in Pennsylvania wants to reuse a large chicken house Roberto in (Philippines) talks of raising To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Apr 17 20:07:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA16675 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA07989 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:30:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.clarityconnect.com (smtp.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA07972 for ; Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Craig (209.150.227.52) by smtp.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:30:16 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990417192455.009dbb50@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: cdcramer@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 19:27:33 -0400 To: ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu From: Craig Cramer Subject: re: cover crop seed Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 468 Kevin: I've got a list of cover crop and forage seed suppliers online at: http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/links/ccfseeds.htm You may be able to find a source a little closer to home there. Best of luck. Craig > > Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:36:44 -0400 (EDT) > From: Kevin Smyth > Subject: cover crop seed > Friends - I am looking for sources of Austrian Winter Peas, Bell Beans, > Sweet Clover, etc, for use on our farm in SE Ohio. I have the 1999 > Peaceful Valley Catalog here - they sell it all, including 13 types of > clover, plus sweet clover - but alas, they're in California! It would cost > me $75 in shipping to get a couple of sacks of peas shipped here. Anybody > know of any sources closer to Ohio? > Thanks much, > Kevin Smyth > ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu Craig Cramer mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming http://1000ways.baka.com Sustainable Farming Connection http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 18 11:04:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25380 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22862 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:27:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emerald.tufts.edu (pmdf@[130.64.1.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22853 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by emerald.tufts.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #U3521) with SMTP id <0FAE00N012U4UO@emerald.tufts.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:27:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Hugh Joseph Subject: Re: Chickens In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990414103233.007a62a0@crocker.com> To: Mark Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: X-Envelope-to: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 469 Why single out chickens? Seems to me we could substitute many other candidates for this analysis. For example: Efforts Of World's 16 Million Soldiers Still Not Adding Up To Much WASHINGTON, DC According to a U.S. Military Council report released Monday, the collective efforts of the world's 16 million soldiers have yet to yield any appreciable results. "For thousands of years, soldiers worldwide have put a tremendous amount of energy into their various activities, which include marching, shooting and fighting with a great deal of vigor," the Military Council report read. "But it remains unclear what has been accomplished as a result of their unfocused efforts." ---------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Mark wrote: > Efforts Of World's 16 Billion Chickens Still Not Adding Up To Much > > OMAHA, NE--According to a U.S. Poultry Council report released Monday, the > collective efforts of the world's 16 billion chickens have yet to yield any > appreciable results. "For thousands of years, chickens worldwide > have put a tremendous amount of energy into their various activities, which > include flapping, squawking and pecking with a great deal of vigor," the > Poultry Council report read. "But it remains unclear > what has been accomplished as a result of their unfocused efforts." > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 18 13:31:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27205 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06158 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:36:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice.mr.net (webpages.MR.Net [137.192.180.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06056 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by postoffice.mr.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07404 at Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:35:46 -0500 (CDT) SMTP "HELO" = [199.199.192.133] But _really_ from norshor2-3.nas.mr.net [199.199.192.133] SMTP "MAIL FROM" = alliance@mr.net SMTP "RCPT TO" = Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 10:37:12 -0600 To: genetics@gn.apc.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronnie Cummins Subject: Campaign for Food Safety News #18 (formerly Food Bytes) Please Post Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 470 Campaign for Food Safety News #18 (formerly Food Bytes) April 16, 1999 News & Analysis on Genetic Engineering, Factory Farming, and Organics By: Ronnie Cummins & Ben Lilliston Campaign for Food Safety Affiliated with the Center for Food Safety and the Organic Consumers Association __________________________________________________________________ The Campaign for Food Safety is happy to announce our formal affiliation with the Center for Food Safety in Washington,D.C. Beginning with this issue we are changing the name of Food Bytes to Campaign for Food Safety News. __________________________________________________________________ ISSUE #18: Global Action Intensifies Against Monsanto & the Gene Giants (Information on Global Days of Action April 15-30 at end of this issue.) Quote of the Month: "This is the beginning of the end of trying to force-feed consumers unwanted and unneeded genetically manipulated food." Benedikt Haerlin, Greenpeace International Press Release, March 17, 1999 __________________________________________________________________ Monsanto and the Gene Giants suffered through another disastrous 45 days from March to mid-April. If the biotech industry thought that the worst of their public relations nightmares were over (see Food Bytes #12, 13, 15, & 17), they were wrong. By the ides of March, even the most stalwart promoters of Frankenfoods, the grain cartels and the Clinton administration, were showing signs of strain. Among the most notable developments: * At an international meeting of entomologists (scientists who study insects) in Basel Switzerland in March, experts warned that genetically engineered (GE) Bt crops are exuding 10-20 times the amount of toxins contained in conventional (non-GE) Bt sprays, and are harming beneficial insects (such as ladybugs/ladybirds and lacewings) and soil microorganisms, and may likely be harming insect-eating bird populations. The scientists called for a moratorium on commercial planting of Bt crops. Worldwide in 1998 there were 19.3 million acres of Bt crops under cultivation (representing 28% of all GE crops), including 45% of the US cotton crop, 25% of the corn, and 3.5% of the potatoes. For further information on the Basel meeting contact For info on the Center for Food Safety & Greenpeace lawsuit filed in the US Feb. 18 to remove Bt crops from the market see . * Attorneys from the Center for Food Safety are contributing to a strategic, precedent-setting seed patenting lawsuit in US federal court. A small farm supply and seed dealer in Iowa, Marvin Redenius, is suing Pioneer Hi-Bred International (the largest seed company in the world, now being bought out by Dupont), claiming that agricultural seed and biotechnology patents issued by the US Patent Office since 1985 are illegal because the US Congress never intended that key food crops be patented. Traditionally the US Congress has held that seed companies have a right to use one another's seed for breeding purposes and that farmers have the right to save and replant seeds. According to the March 3 Wall Street Journal, "Biotech Industry Shivers at Threat to Seed Patents" the lawsuit has thrown Monsanto and the other biotech corporations into a panic. As the WSJ puts it the lawsuit "places at risk much of the billions of dollars in investments by companies such as Monsanto Co., Dupont Co., and Novartis." Stay tuned for further developments. * British poll results announced March 11 in the Daily Record found that "nine out of 10 shoppers would switch supermarkets to avoid genetically modified (GM) food," and would be willing to travel "up to double the distance" to a supermarket which banned gene-foods. On the same day the Church of Scotland issued a five-year study in which they condemned the "unethical" practices of US and transnational biotech corporations. Donald Bruce, Church spokesperson, stated in the Aberdeen Press and Journal: "There is indignation from people that they are not being given a choice. It smacks of imperialism--but instead of a Boston Tea Party, this time we could have a Rotterdam Soya Bean Fest with soya and maize dumped into the North Sea." * On March 11, leading scientists and activists from over a dozen nations (Europe, North America, Japan, Malaysia, Bangladesh, India) meeting at a "Biodevastation" conference in India vowed to "bring down" Monsanto and the other biotechnology transnationals and build a global mass movement for sustainable and organic agriculture. Ronnie Cummins summed up the battle that civil society faces at a well-attended press event in New Delhi: "We stand on the edge of a Biotech Century where a runaway technology wielded by Monsanto and other transnationals threaten food security and biodiversity in both the North and the South." The India "Biodevastation 2" conference was organized by Dr. Vandana Shiva, as a follow-up to last year's "Biodevastation 1" conference in St. Louis (see Food Bytes # 11). On May 19-20 in Seattle, Washington the Edmonds Institute will be sponsoring "Biodevastation 3," which will coincide with the annual convention across town of America's trade association of genetic engineering corporations, BIO (Biotechnology Industry Organization). For further details on Biodevastation 3, contact Beth Burrows at . * On March 11, the Consumers Union of Japan issued a report on increasing anti-GE food activities in Japan. The CUJ announced that 2300 of Japan's 3300 local government assemblies have now called on the Tokyo government to require mandatory labeling of GE foods. In addition two million Japanese consumers have signed a petition to the government on GE labeling. Despite mounting public concern, Tokyo has already approved the importation of 22 GE foods and six food additives. The CUJ and other citizen groups are especially alarmed about GE industry plans to grow gene-altered rice in Japan--where nine million tons are consumed annually. For more info contact . On March 14, the Los Angeles Times ran a major story entitled "Japanese Choke on American Biofood," in which they noted increasing alarm by US authorities over growing Japanese opposition to $11 billion of unlabeled American food exports, much of it containing genetically engineered ingredients. The LAT story called attention to a 1997 government survey in which 80% of Japanese consumers expressed "reservations" about GE foods, with 92.5% supporting mandatory labeling. * Another major GE food safety controversy erupted in the UK on March 12, when researchers at the York Nutritional Laboratory announced that soy food allergies among the British public unexpectedly rose 50% in 1998, coinciding with a large increase in imported foods from the US containing genetically engineered soybeans. Last year Monsanto's Roundup Ready soybeans constituted 32% of the US soybean crop. Scientists have warned for years that foreign proteins, most of which have never been consumed by humans, gene-spliced into common foods could set off an epidemic of food allergies. In the US, eight percent of children, and two percent of adults already suffer from food allergies--with symptoms ranging from mild unpleasantness to sudden death. British biotech expert Dr. Mae-Won Ho of the Open University has warned that Monsanto's RRS soybeans could pose serious food allergy problems. As Ho stated in a legal affidavit last August, Monsanto's RRS soybeans: "contain genes from a virus, a soil bacterium and from a petunia (plant), none of which have been in our food before... The soil bacterium, Agrobacterium sp. (CP4EPSPS)... is unlike any other protein that humans have eaten. And there is no reliable method for predicting its allergenic potential. Allergic reactions typically occur only some time after the subject is sensitized by initial exposure to the allergen." * The newspaper, the Independent, reported on March 14 that the UK government had entered into secret negotiations with biotech companies for a voluntary three-year ban on growing GE crops in Britain. The Independent noted that the Tony Blair government was wary of forcing Monsanto and the other biotech companies into an involuntary ban for fear of trade reprisals by the US. And on March 17, the giant Sainsbury's supermarket chain in the UK announced that they were joining forces with six other leading EU grocery chains--Marks and Spencer (UK); Carrefour (France); Effelunga (Italy); Migros (Switzerland); Delhaize (Belgium), and Superquinn (Ireland)--to form a consortium to buy non-GE foods and food ingredients. This move, characterized by the EU business association Eurocommerce as "very significant," comes in response to increasing consumer demands for a ban on GE foods. Other major chains and food and beverage producers in the EU (Asda, Iceland, and Waitrose in the UK; Unilever in Germany; 90% of all supermarkets in Austria; Carlsberg beer in Denmark; among many others) have already announced bans on GE products. * The UK New Scientist stated in its 2/29 issue that increasing demands for certified GE-free soya, corn, and rapeseed (canola) oil are bringing world market prices down in most cases to within 6-10% of the price of conventional (co-mingled) grains and oils. This in turn has alarmed American grain exporters and agribusiness representatives, who have begun to warn US farmers that "intense opposition" to GE foods in the EU and Japan threatens the US export market and may soon lead to requirements for crop segregation, GE residue testing, and labeling. At the National Grain and Feed Association convention in San Francisco on March 20, according to Reuters, farmers were warned that despite pressure from the US government on the EU, Japan, and other nations for open markets and no GE labeling, opposition to GE crops around the world was increasing. (See the CFS web site for more information). * In a related development, grain export giant Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) announced in early March a program for segregation and extensive marketing of GE-free "identity preserved" soybeans. ADM emphasized that their new GE-free soybean program was in response to global "customer demand." In this context of increasing public controversy and market volatility, German biotech company AgrEvo announced in mid-March that they were postponing commercial planting of GE Liberty Link soybeans in the USA because of the lack of "import clearances" or approvals in overseas markets. The American Soybean Association said they approved of AgrEvo's precautionary move, voicing concern about the loss of $4.5 billion in US annual soy exports. Up until now the US has been able to export shipments of unlabeled, non-segregated soybeans worth $2.5 billion to the EU every year, as well as $1billion to Japan. * The heavily indentured US scientific establishment--personified in this case by the National Academy of Sciences--announced in March that it would set up an "expert panel" to evaluate cuurent EPA regulations on GE crops (such as Bt crops) containing their own pesticides. After publishing the proposed list of scientists who would make up this NAS "expert panel" (almost all of whom are rabid supporters of genetic engineering), the NAS came under heavy fire from public interest groups such as the Consumers Union, the Union of Concerned Scientists, Greenpeace, the Pesticide Action Network, RAFI, and the Campaign for Food Safety. In response the NAS has made overtures to a well-known biotech critic, Dr. Rebecca Goldburg, to be added to the panel. Of course this token gesture is not enough. Until the proposed expert panelists publicly reveal their ties to the biotech industry, and the panel is reconstituted with at least 90% of scientists being truly "objective," the NAS advisory panel will continue to be criticized for what it is, a "scientific greenwash" of a dangerous and currently out-of-control technology. * On March 15 leading French non-governmental organizations (NGOs), including Greenpeace and Ecoropa, called for the French government to follow the lead of the UK and Denmark and impose a national ban on the planting of all GE crops. Etienne Vernet of Ecoropa told Reuters that the French public demand "a moratorium on all types of genetically modified food for three to five years." In response to growing public pressure, the French government recently implemented a ban on growing transgenic beets and rapeseed. Other EU nations with partial or comprehensive bans on growing or importing GE crops include Austria, Greece, and Luxembourg. GE crops are also banned in Norway. On April 1, the Greece government announced a ban on planting GE crops and vowed to join with other EU nations to prevent further approvals of GE foods. EU authorities have rejected all new applications for GE products since April 1998, much to the chagrin of the US government and biotech transnationals. Four biotech applications are currently deadlocked--a Monsanto corn, a Zeneca tomato, and two Monsanto Bt cotton applications. On March 22, a leading Spanish farmers organization, COAG, with 200,000 members, called for a complete moratorium on GE foods and crops *South Korean students and environmentalists occupied and blockaded a government-funded biotech greenhouse on March 12. Hanging a large banner and chaining themselves to the entrance, activists told the Korean press that they wanted an immediate ban on the cultivation or importation of GE foods and crops. Before being arrested by police, a demonstrator told the media: "We're here today to let the government and those researchers involved know how the public feels about their incompetence, arrogance, and lack of responsibility." Since December 1998--facing mounting public pressure--the South Korean government has begun developing national regulations for mandatory labeling of GE foods and crops. On March 25 the Malaysian government directed an advisory committee to come up with a draft for national biosafety legislation within three months. For further info on anti-biotech and safe food activism in the Asia and Pacific region see the Pesticide Action Network's web site . *On March 16, Brazil's main commercial newspaper, Gazeta Mercantil, reported that Monsanto had withdrawn its patent applications for five varieties of Roundup Ready soybeans. Although Monsanto said its withdrawal was merely for "technical" reasons, Gazeta Mercantil pointed out that Monsanto is losing the biotech debate in Brazil. Among recent reverses for Monsanto: a statement by SBPC, the national association of scientists, as well as Brazilian consumer protection agencies, opposing RRS; a ban on growing RRS soybeans in the large soya-growing state of Rio Grande do Sul; and the decision of the enforcement agency of the Environment Ministry, IBAMA, to join Greenpeace and the NGO IDEC in a court battle to ban RRS soybeans. Meanwhile Brazil continues to export increasing quantities of GE-free soybeans to the EU, in effect taking market share away from the US. With 160 million people, Brazil represents the most strategic market for GE production and consumption in Latin America. In a related development, informed sources have told CFS News that the government of Chile--stung by criticisms that it sided with the US in the recent sabotage of a Biosafety Protocol treaty in Colombia--has begun deliberations to develop a set of mandatory labeling regulations for GE foods. * On March 21 an official scientific advisory panel in the EU recommended a continuation of Europe's ban on Monsanto's controversial recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH or rBST), a GE hormone injected into 5% of dairy cows in the US to force them to give more milk. The panel warned that the milk from cows injected with rBGH contains up to 4-5 times the levels of a potent chemical hormone messenger called IGF-1, which has been linked to increased human risks for prostate, breast, and colon cancer. The US is the only country in the industrialized world to have approved rBGH, despite widespread consumer opposition and continuing charges of conflict of interest in the FDA. For information on the Center for Food Safety legal petition to have rBGH banned in the US see On a related note award-winning US TV journalists Steve Wilson and Jane Akre's lawsuit against Fox TV (who fired them last year after they produced a hard-hitting series on rBGH for Fox TV) begins on May 10 in Tampa, Florida. See * The Wisconsin State Journal revealed on March 24 that a Wisconsin-based organic food manufacturer, Prima Terra, had located the source of "genetic pollution" in a shipment of 80.000 bags of organic corn chips which were destroyed in Holland earlier this year after "testing positive" for traces of GE corn. According to Prima Terra, one of its suppliers, an organic corn farmer in Texas, was the victim of genetic drift, after GE corn pollen blew onto the farm's certified organic corn fields from a neighboring farm. Genetically altered corn pollen can travel for miles in the wind and integrate its DNA into the genome of conventional plants. *According to 3/30 posting on the internet by ASEED, the EU youth activist network, Hungarian authorities have at least temporarily denied permission for Monsanto, AgrEvo, and Novartis to conduct field tests of GE corn and sugar beets. Anti-GE public awareness and activism are slowly but steadily increasing in Hungary and Eastern Europe. For further information contact ASEED * The English folk band "Seize The Day" have released a new song on the internet called "Food 'n' Health 'n' Hope," a scathing satirical attack on Monsanto. To hear the song, copy it, and distribute it, copyright free, tune your internet browser to . * In late-March Amazon tribal leaders, wearing shell necklaces and bird feathers, carried out a protest at the US Patent Office in Washington, D.C., demanding a revocation of a "bio-pirated" patent granted to US scientists for a traditional medicine and hallucinogenic plant called Ayahuasca. According to a March 31 article in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch by Bill Lambrecht, universities and biotech companies such as Monsanto are finding it harder and harder to "bioprospect" in indigenous areas due to increasing opposition by Native groups. * In a major, perhaps precedent-setting victory for the anti-GE movement in Britain, UK prosecutors on March 29 dropped all charges against two defendants, Jacklyn Sheedy and Liz Snook, who were on trial for destroying a test plot of AgrEvo's GE corn last year. The AgrEvo test site threatened to contaminate a field of organic corn planted nearby. According to informed sources, the prosecution and the British government feared that if the two campaigners were put on trial they would likely have been found innocent by the jury, thereby setting a "dangerous" precedent for those contemplating future direct action. Sheedy and Snook faced up to ten years in prison for "conspiracy to commit criminal damage." And in a related development, an Irish judge on April 1 granted probation to six of seven activists accused of destroying a test plot of Monsanto's GE sugar beets last June in County Wexford. Meanwhile in early April a 1700 square meter test plot of GE rapeseed was sprayed with pesticides and destroyed by activists in Giessen, Germany. This was the fourth time since 1997 that this particular test site had been destroyed. * Portugal's Burger King restaurants announced a ban on GE foods on April 7. A number of major UK fast-food chains (McDonald's, Burger King, and Kentucky Fried Chicken) made similar announcements in February. Informed sources have told CFS News that even McDonald's USA has the jitters over GE--with McD's franchise owners in Wisconsin and Minnesota telling potato processors and their growers not to deliver Monsanto's Bt potatoes to them. Farmers also report that Monsanto's miracle Bt potatoes aren't doing that well in the fields, with Minnesota potato growers complaining the mutant Bt spuds won't germinate until the temperature hits 50 degrees Fahrenheit, as opposed to 40 degrees for conventional varieties. * On April 8 biotech and anti-organic propagandist Dennis Avery of the Hudson Institute (see Food Bytes #16) got a pie in the face as he was delivering a lecture on biotechnology at Grinnell College in Iowa. According to a press release, the Central Iowa Anarchist (CIA) cell of the Biotic Baking Brigade carried out "Operation Avery's Savory" as a "response to Avery's shameless and flagrant support of biotechnology and industrial factory farming." A week earlier in Somerset, England, Novartis PR man Steve Smith was hit by a custard pie at a meeting on GE foods. As Smith rushed to the toilet to gain his composure, he was creamed by yet another custard pie. * The US mass media are finally starting to wake up to the controversy over genetically engineered foods and crops. Beginning last Oct. 25, when the New York Times Sunday Magazine ran a major feature story, "Playing God in the Garden," critical of Monsanto and ag biotech, the American news blackout appears to have lifted--at least partially. In recent months objective, and even a few hard-hitting investigative articles, have started to appear in the NYT; the Washington Post (a series by Rick Weiss); the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, headquarters for Monsanto (an excellent series of articles by Bill Lambrecht); the Los Angeles Times; Harpers magazine; the Christian Science Monitor; Penthouse magazine; E magazine; and other magazines and papers. Even national TV networks, especially CNN and ABC News (November 9 and December 15, 1998) have started to begin to address the issue. In addition the progressive media--the Nation, Mother Jones, the Progressive, the Progressive Populist, Earth Island Journal, Multinational Monitor, among others--and community radio stations have recently begun to publish and broadcast articles on the GE controversy. In Canada ag biotech media coverage has been more widespread than the US, partly as a result of the major national debate over rBGH. With increased media coverage in North America there is now a steadily increasing awareness on the part of the general public, as well as a number of hopeful signs that a new grassroots mass movement--anti-GE, anti-industrial agriculture, pro-organic, pro-sustainable--is starting to develop. * Global Days of Action Against Monsanto and Genetic Engineering April 15-30. For the fourth year in a row we at the Campaign for Food Safety are serving as an international clearinghouse for the Global Days of Action (GDA). In 1996-98 the GDA have helped to stimulate coordinated global protests and actions, generate significant media coverage, and strengthen global solidarity and campaign capacity. This year of course nearly every day has now become a Global Day of Action, at least in places like Western Europe and India. GDA 1999 will try to place a major focus on the Monsanto corporation. To spearhead the growing global opposition to Monsanto, genetic engineering, and industrial agriculture, we at CFS--along with our NGO allies--recently have coordinated a series of US and international conference calls as well as international activist meetings in Cuernavaca, Mexico and New Delhi, India. So far we know of planned GDA (and Earth Day Week) activities scheduled for the following countries and local areas: USA: A variety of teach-ins, street theater, and leafletting/petitioning activities are scheduled, especially around the week of Earth Day April 22. Over 125 natural food stores in 75 cities and towns are participating in a petition drive in support of the Center for Food Safety lawsuit (filed May 27, 1998--see Food Bytes #9) to have all GE foods and crops taken off the market, as well as to head off industry and government attempts to eliminate mandatory labeling requirements for irradiated foods. For CFS petition materials contact our Duluth, Minnesota office at A partial list of other USA GDA/Earth Day actions includes: Seattle, Washington; Austin, Texas; Santa Cruz, California--April 22--contact National Campaign to Label GE Food Boston, Massachusetts April 17-24 contact St. Louis, Missouri Protest at Monsanto's Shareholders Meeting 4/23 and other events contact Burlington, Vermont and Amherst, Mass. contact Cleveland, Ohio April 22 contact Chicago, Illinois April 17 teach-in San Francisco, California (supermarket actions April 18) contact: Boulder, Colorado Alliance for Democracy activists conference "Challenging Corporate Control of Food and Agriculture" April 29 contact A partial list of other nations and contacts for GDA 1999 include the following: France--action on April 22 in Paris-- contact UK--actions in 12 cities on April 17 by Genetix Snowball contact additional actions planned as well by other UK groups April 15-30 India--actions planned--contact Japan--actions planned--contact Malaysia--contact Jennifer Mourin Australia--contact Bob Phelps Canada--contact Tony Clarke Please email us other events & activities taking place during GDA April 15-30. And finally let us resolve to make every day a Global Day of Action Against Genetic Engineering and Industrial Agriculture. End of CFS News #18 (Campaign for Food Safety News) April 16, 1999 (formerly called Food Bytes) ________________________________________________________________ Ronnie Cummins, Director Campaign for Food Safety/Organic Consumers Association 860 Hwy 61 Little Marais, Minnesota 55614 Telephone: 218-226-4164 Fax: 218-226-4157 email: alliance@mr.net URL: http://www.purefood.org Affiliated with the Center for Food Safety (Washington, D.C.) http://www.icta.org and the Organic Consumers Association http://www.organicconsumers.org To Subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Campaign for Food Safety News (formerly called Food Bytes), send an email to: majordomo@mr.net with the simple message in the body of the text: subscribe pure-food-action To subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Organic View, send an email to: organicview@organicconsumers.org with the simple message in the body of the text: subscribe To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 18 14:18:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27567 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA12725 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12687 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (root@rac1.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.141]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id NAA25682; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac1.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id NAA12725; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac1.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id NAA12720; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:34:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac1.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:34:24 -0400 (EDT) From: joel b gruver To: Ronnie Cummins cc: genetics@gn.apc.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: BT effects on soil microorganisms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 471 Hello to all... The following excerpt was recently posted: ******************************** At an international meeting of entomologists (scientists who study insects) in Basel Switzerland in March, experts warned that genetically engineered (GE) Bt crops are exuding 10-20 times the amount of toxins contained in conventional (non-GE) Bt sprays, and are harming beneficial insects (such as ladybugs/ladybirds and lacewings) and ++++++soil microorganisms ++++++ and may likely be harming insect-eating bird populations. ******************************** Is anyone aware of any published literature discussing the negative impact of BT crops on soil micro or macro organisms ? Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research U of MD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 18 16:38:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA29640 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09370 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:03:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09289 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA01326 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.43); 18 Apr 99 16:03:13 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.43); 18 Apr 99 16:03:12 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:03:12 EST Subject: Re: BT effects on soil microorganisms X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <7EAA533F8@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 472 Joel: look under G. Stotzky - I think at Cornell - in Science Citation Index. He is one of the leaders on this subject. Doyle et al. 1995. Adv. Appl Micro. 40: Tapp and Stotzky. 1995. Appl and Environ. Microbiology 61:602-609. Crecchio and Stotzky. 1998. Soil Biol and Biochem. 30:463-470. These papers show, among other things, that active Bt toxins can persist for extended periods of time in the soil, bound to clay particles, where they resist breakdown but retain activity. They also discuss the potential for less selectivity in Bt action, specifically because what is put into crop plants is active Bt, not the prototoxin that is sprayed on in foliar formulations. Recall that part of the elegant selectivity that allows particular Bt endotoxins (I think there are about 100 of these) to affect particular species (e.g. lepidopteran but not coleopteran or vice versa) involves the processing of the prototoxin in the insect stomach. Requires particular pH, particularly enzyme, and even particular receptors in the stomach of the insect in order to be "activated" and toxic to that particular organism. All of this is lost when active Bt is dumped all over and into the ground in decomposing Bt crop residues. So, the concern is a much wider range of organisms - including soil decomposer organisms - may be affected - selectivity will be much reduced. And then, of course, there is the dose issue, which is what your reference alluded to. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 18 18:37:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA02589 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA12886 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:50:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12882 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp165.epix.net [205.238.243.165]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id RAA28938; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <371A5542.5EC7266A@epix.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:57:22 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet CC: "SOILQUALITY@LIST.UVM.EDU" Subject: Groff farm on PBS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 473 Well, the time has finally come! Almost 2 years after the PBS film crew spent 2 days on our farm, the finished product is ready to air nationally this Tues. night at 10 pm eastern. (Check local listings as some stations are airing at different times.) JOURNEY TO PLANET EARTH is a 3 part mini series that premiered April 6th on PBS. The 3rd part, "Land of Plenty, Land of Want", the segment that includes our Cedar Meadow Farm, will air this Tues. eve. April 20th. Narrated by Kelly McGillis, JOURNEY TO PLANET EARTH provides a perspective for viewers to understand the complexities underlying ecological issues. Each episode looks at a specific problem from the scientific, economic, political and historical viewpoints, as well as at efforts by different communities to address these problems. Computer-enhanced images open the episodes, dramatically illustrating the devastating impact people have made on the planet's ecosystem. "Land of Plenty, Land of Want", (April 20, 10-11 p.m. ET) visits diverse farming communities on four continents to examine worldwide problems of feeding a growing population. In Zimbabwe, an El Nino-related drought threatens famine for traditional subsistence farmers of a small village. In France, global competition forces farmers to abandon the harsh, remote Auvergne region, while in Brittany agriculture booms but at a severe cost to the local fishing industry and the environment due to overuse of pesticides. In China, expanding industry gobbles up much needed, highly productive, fertile farmland. In Lancaster, Pennsylvania, farmer Steve Groff turns to more traditional methods to sustain his soil. In the Iowa corn belt, farmers use the latest technology to increase production and profitability and to preserve their soil. The JOURNEY TO PLANET EARTH teacher's guide and the brochure for "Sustainable Agriculture--It All Starts with Soil" is available to download from the JOURNEY TO PLANET EARTH Web site. Additional resources for teachers can be found on the site, too. The address for the site is: http://www.pbs.org/teachersource/planetearth I've reviewed these materials and think they are excellent! I've also been impressed with how they portrayed agriculture as a whole and what some farmers are doing not only to sustain the soil, but to sustain the agriculture system as a whole. Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Sun Apr 18 23:26:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05834 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA26411 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA03863; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:17:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f103.hotmail.com [207.82.250.222]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA03740 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:15:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 50872 invoked by uid 0); 19 Apr 1999 03:17:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990419031724.50871.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.136.65.114 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:17:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.136.65.114] From: "Kirsten Saylor" To: nefood-l@sardonyx.tufts.edu, comfood-l@sardonyx.tufts.edu, csa-l@prairienet.org, arlcoop@onelist.com, sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Good Food For All Festival in DC Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:17:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 474 THE "GOOD FOOD FOR ALL" EARTH DAY FESTIVAL THIS SATURDAY, APRIL 24TH At Eastern High School, 17th and East Capitol Sts, NE, Washington, DC (1 block from the Stadium Armory Metro). 10am - 5pm Live music and speeches throughout the day!! "Life Pieces to Masterpieces" opens the day at 10:20am. Also performing: Urban Voices of Youth HIP HOP Choir, Salt of the Earth Funk Band, Amiel, Mustory Reggae Band, Birney Elementary Glee Club. Informative and Interactive Workshops!! Healthy cooking and shopping, growing one's own veggies and fruit, creating a community garden, starting farmers' markets and local food co-ops, buying directly from farmers, Y2K Crisis and our food supply, community development and organic agriculture in Cuba. Workshops occur during two sessions (11:00-12:30pm) and (2:00-3:30pm). Not to be missed -- The African Heritage Dancers & Drummers; Melvin Deal, Director!! Farmers' Market on-site and the "Renewed Soul Food Cook-Off"!! Local restaurants and food vendors will be selling food in the cafeteria. $300 first-place prize for the cook-off winner, judged on use of healthy ingredients and taste by a panel of celebrity judges! For info on how to enter the contest, contact GROW at 202-234-0591 or Amerigrow@aol.com. Children's Activities and Free Health Check-up! Tours of the high school's garden and greenhouse! Special events -- Make "Sustainable" Ice Cream with the Chesapeake Bay Foundation. Meet students from Buffalo involved with an urban agriculture initiative called "Food from the Hood." Meet two dynamic women from Cuba, who are leaders in community development and environmental education efforts in Havana. Using culinary herbs in cooking. Over 60 sponsors supporting the festival; lots of great exhibits- Thinkin' Globally, Eatin' Locally!!! The sponsors are organizations, farmers, businesses and others from throughout the DC area. Many will have exhibit tables with lots of useful info related to good, healthy food and our environment. We are seeking volunteers! To help out, please call 202-234-0591, or Amerigrow@aol.com. Health and happiness, Kirsten Saylor Arlington, VA _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 02:51:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA07283 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA05206 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:10:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA05195 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.228] (term6-36.vta.west.net [205.254.241.228]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C09824A80 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:10:27 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Rethinking Agriculture: 2-Pt Forum, San Francisco, CA, 4/29 & 5/6/1999 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 475 *Rethinking Agriculture, Two-Part Public Forum, April 29 and May 6, 1999, San Francisco, CA* Public participatory event. Part-one will address global and macroeconomic issues, agricultural biotechnology and the movement against it in Europe and Asia. Part-two will examine solutions to current agricultural problems looking at relocalization of food supply, agrarian renewal in rural and urban areas and democratic resolution of natural resource allocation conflicts. $16 by mail for both evenings, or $10 each night at the door. More details at www.ccummings.org/rethinkag.htm or contact Claire Hope Cummings at ccummings@igc.org. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 02:51:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA07291 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:51:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA05204 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:10:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA05189 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.228] (term6-36.vta.west.net [205.254.241.228]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E3F5424A44 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:10:25 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Reuters: U.S. farm group says producers need to know GMO risks Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 476 U.S. farm group says producers need to know GMO risks Reuters March 21, 1999 SAN FRANCISCO, March 20 (Reuters) - U.S. farmers need to know that if they choose to plant genetically modified crops, they run the risk of not being able to market their product to foreign customers, a panel of grain buyers said Saturday. Delegates at the National Grain and Feed Association conference said in a climate where genetically modified crops face intense opposition from U.S. trading partners, especially in the European Union, farmers need to know more about the crops they are planting. GMO crops have been the subject of intense debate in Europe, where the crops, which are genetically-modified to fight disease and improve the commodity in other ways, are viewed as a danger to public health. The United States, however, has approved many varieties of GMO crops made by companies including Monsanto, DeKalb and AgrEvo, and has sharply criticised the European Union for dragging its feet in approving the GMO crops. The U.S. Agriculture Department has expressed frustration, saying the EU has not been basing its decisions on sound science, but instead on politics. U.S. farmers have been quick to embrace GMO crops. Approximately 40 percent of the 1999 U.S. corn crop is expected to be planted with genetically modified seed. But grain buyers at the conference expressed concern that farmers do not know that the crops they are growing face intense opposition, which puts the buyers in a bind when it comes time to try to sell the products abroad. One elevator operator said he has had foreign purchasers reject his product because he would not certify that none of the sale included GMO commodities. At this point, most grain buyers do not test the commodities they purchase to determine if they are GMO products, but if opposition intensifies, they may be forced to do just that, company officials said. The delegates voted at their annual meeting to distribute information to farmers about the GMO issue in order to educate the producers about the potential marketability problems of the crops. A representative from the National Corn Growers Association said his group plans to create a web page that will list all of the types of GMO corn farmers can buy and which countries still forbid the importation of the products to help farmers in their planting decisions. Many representatives at the conference expressed concern that more and more U.S. producers will plant GMO crops while the backlog of GMO applications at the EU expands. Most said they expect the EU will not approve any GMO varieties in 1999. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 03:02:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA07343 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 03:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA05202 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:10:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA05180 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 02:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.228] (term6-36.vta.west.net [205.254.241.228]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9353D24A80 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:10:19 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Bangkok: NGOs protest WTO-sponsored UPOV Meeting On GMOs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id CAA05183 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 477 TITLE: NGOs Protest WIPO-WTO Moves on UPOV at Bangkok AUTHOR: Chakravarty Raghavan (editor) PUBLICATION: South-North Development Monitor (SUNS), #4398 DATE: 19 March 1999 SOURCE: Third World Network URL: http://www.twnside.org.sg NGOS PROTEST WIPO-WTO MOVES ON UPOV AT BANGKOK Bangkok, March 18 (TWN) -- A two-day World Trade Organization-sponsored meeting that opened Thursday in Bangkok to discuss the implementation of the TRIPS agreement, and sui generis systems for plant varieties protection has allowed participation of industry leaders from Europe and North America but denied participation to the groups most affected - farmers and rural communities, says a communique from a coalition of NGOs. The Bangkok meeting is to discuss how Asian countries plan to implement the biodiversity provisions of the WTO Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS), which requires developing countries to grant monopoly rights over new varieties of plants before 1 January 2000, either through patenting or sui generis system. The biodiversity clause of TRIPS, Article 27.3 (b), is so controversial that when governments signed it at the closing of the GATT Uruguay Round in 1994, they did so under the proviso that they would review it in 1999 -- one year before developing countries actually have to implement it. Organized by the Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants (UPOV), an intergovernmental organization based in Geneva, the Bangkok meeting has received active support from WTO and the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), the NGOs note. The UPOV Convention, as amended by its 1991 protocol, gives exclusive patent-like protection to corporate plant breeders. This means that companies like Monsanto or Novartis are allowed to exact fees from farmers and other breeders who want to use new seeds. The system was created by industrialized countries back in 1961 as an "alternative" to patenting. However, each revision of the Convention blurs this distinction. UPOV has tried to get Asian governments to adopt its Convention for many years, but national scientists have resisted it. They fear that TNCs will be the one to benefit. In their joint statement, the NGOs accused the WTO of "lending support to the concerted campaign of UPOV, the US government and the $30 billion commercial seed industry to force plant breeder's rights legislation as the only option for developing countries." "The pressure bearing down on developing countries to join UPOV as a means of fulfilling TRIPS Article 27.3 (b) is an attempt to sidestep and weaken the review process at WTO," says Cecilia Oh of the Third World Network. "The ASEAN group in the TRIPS Council has requested that WTO conduct a serious and substantive review of the provision of Article 27.3 (b) itself. However, countries like the US want to reduce the review to a meaningless exchange of information about implementation," she added. Witoon Lianchamroon of BIOTHAI, a multisectoral group working closely with Thailand's Forum of the Poor and Alternative Agriculture Network, says, "UPOV is here in Bangkok trying to sell itself as the best solution for governments to fulfil their TRIPS obligation in Asia. However, the UPOV system completely overrides farmers' rights and Thai communities cannot accept it." BIOTHAI sought permission for farmers' groups to participate in the discussion, but this was flatly rejected. "The UPOV option is not suitable for India," says Ashish Kothari of Kalpavriksh, a Puna-based NGO, which helped draft India's Biodiversity Act. "It only protects the interests of the formal seed sector, ignoring the interests and rights of millions of farmers who have been breeding and developing seeds for thousands of years." UPOV would sharply accelerate genetic erosion in India, Kothari underlines. Binu Thomas of Action Aid India's National Food Rights Campaign, operating from Bangalore, agrees. "Transnational corporations (TNCs) spend millions of dollars developing a few new plant varieties which they then have to get planted in millions of hectares to recoup their investment costs." "Monopoly rights, like UPOV, fast-track this profit seeking exercise for big TNCs but at the expense of the farmer's capacity to feed his or her own family," he added. "Because the farmers legally lose control over the seed in this system, they are forced to pay for inappropriate research like genetic engineering." That's very threatening to a country like India, he believes. The spectre of monopolies on biodiversity worry many sectors in Indonesia as well. Since the late 1980s, rice production has been dominated there by one single variety (IR64), which has Indonesia in state of severe vulnerability. Local NGOs have been trying to help farmers broaden their options, while the government imports five million tonnes of rice a year. The introduction of private monopoly rights for breeders could destabilise the situation even further. "The Indonesian government has been doing little to face up to the real meaning of WTO-TRIPS," explains Riza Tjahjadi of PAN Indonesia. "It revised the patent law in 1997 to make plant varieties patentable, but it has not enacted it yet." In the meantime, the sui generis option is being ignored, Tjahjadi added. "Any sui generis system for Indonesia would have to be based on farmers' rights. UPOV only protects industry's rights." Renee Vellve from GRAIN's office in the Philippines adds, "In Africa, both the Organization for African Unity and a grouping of Southern and Eastern African trade negotiators are also pushing for a complete review of TRIPS Article 27.3 (b)." "Their main concern is that systems such as patenting or UPOV fail to recognise the collective rights of local communities to genetic resources and traditional knowledge, and therefore foster biopiracy. African governments want the sovereign rights of nations to exclude biodiversity from TRIPS," Vellve said. The joint NGO position urges developing countries to call for a moratorium on the implementation of Article 27.3 (b) before 1999 runs out. "Not until a substantial review -- the terms of which must be openly and transparently determined, and agreed upon by the South -- is conducted, should developing countries implement Article 27.3 (b) much less consider joining UPOV," the statement said. Tension is growing over the issue, the statement notes. Recently, 7,000 Philippine farmers publicly demonstrated their opposition to TRIPS in Negros in central Philippines. With support from groups like MASIPAG -- a national farmer-scientist partnership helping farmers in their own breeding work -- and the Philippines Greens, debates and mobilisations have been organized throughout the country to examine the options for small scale food producers. "Biodiversity should be taken out of TRIPS," say MASIPAG farmers. "Farmers manage the country's genetic resources as the peoples' resource. We are innovators too. Intellectual property rights are anti-farmer, anti-biodiversity and immoral." SUNS #4398 - Third World Network Geneva, Friday 19 March 1999 1997 SUNS _________________________________________________________ ABOUT THIS LISTSERVER -- BIO-IPR is an irregular listserver put out by Genetic Resources Action International (GRAIN). Its purpose is to circulate information about recent developments in the field of intellectual property rights related to biodiversity & associated knowledge. BIO-IPR is a strictly non-commercial and educational service for nonprofit organisations and individuals active in the struggle against IPRs on life. The views expressed in each post are those of the indicated author(s). HOW TO PARTICIPATE -- To get on the mailing list, send the word "subscribe" (no quotes) as the subject of an email message to . To get off the list, send the word "unsubscribe" instead. To submit material to the list, address your message to . A note with further details about BIO-IPR is sent to all subscribers. ABOUT GRAIN -- For general information about GRAIN, you may visit our website http://www.grain.org or send an email to . To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 08:11:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09170 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA24220 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:18:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA24156 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA02477; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 06:18:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-242.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.242) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002467; Mon Apr 19 06:17:43 1999 Message-ID: <00e301be8a56$0790c020$9df86ed1@guldann.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Beth von Gunten" Subject: Re: Reuters: U.S. farm group says producers need to know GMO risks Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:16:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 478 I thought this paragragh was the funniest: US isn't swayed by Politics? >The United States, however, has approved many varieties of GMO crops made >by companies including Monsanto, DeKalb and AgrEvo, and has sharply >criticised the European Union for dragging its feet in approving the GMO >crops. The U.S. Agriculture Department has expressed frustration, saying >the EU has not been basing its decisions on sound science, but instead on >politics. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 10:46:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11449 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA13938 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:47:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA13889 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDF7G2>; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:50:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Good Food For All Festival in DC Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:50:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 479 From: "Kirsten Saylor" To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Good Food For All Festival in DC Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:17:23 PDT THE "GOOD FOOD FOR ALL" EARTH DAY FESTIVAL THIS SATURDAY, APRIL 24TH At Eastern High School, 17th and East Capitol Sts, NE, Washington, DC (1 block from the Stadium Armory Metro). 10am - 5pm Live music and speeches throughout the day!! "Life Pieces to Masterpieces" opens the day at 10:20am. Also performing: Urban Voices of Youth HIP HOP Choir, Salt of the Earth Funk Band, Amiel, Mustory Reggae Band, Birney Elementary Glee Club. Informative and Interactive Workshops!! Healthy cooking and shopping, growing one's own veggies and fruit, creating a community garden, starting farmers' markets and local food co-ops, buying directly from farmers, Y2K Crisis and our food supply, community development and organic agriculture in Cuba. Workshops occur during two sessions (11:00-12:30pm) and (2:00-3:30pm). Not to be missed -- The African Heritage Dancers & Drummers; Melvin Deal, Director!! Farmers' Market on-site and the "Renewed Soul Food Cook-Off"!! Local restaurants and food vendors will be selling food in the cafeteria. $300 first-place prize for the cook-off winner, judged on use of healthy ingredients and taste by a panel of celebrity judges! For info on how to enter the contest, contact GROW at 202-234-0591 or Amerigrow@aol.com. Children's Activities and Free Health Check-up! Tours of the high school's garden and greenhouse! Special events -- Make "Sustainable" Ice Cream with the Chesapeake Bay Foundation. Meet students from Buffalo involved with an urban agriculture initiative called "Food from the Hood." Meet two dynamic women from Cuba, who are leaders in community development and environmental education efforts in Havana. Using culinary herbs in cooking. Over 60 sponsors supporting the festival; lots of great exhibits- Thinkin' Globally, Eatin' Locally!!! The sponsors are organizations, farmers, businesses and others from throughout the DC area. Many will have exhibit tables with lots of useful info related to good, healthy food and our environment. We are seeking volunteers! To help out, please call 202-234-0591, or Amerigrow@aol.com. Health and happiness, Kirsten Saylor Arlington, VA _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-bdnow@envirolink.org Mon Apr 19 12:37:59 1999 Received: from envirolink.org (manatee.envirolink.org [208.195.208.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13517 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA17904; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by envirolink.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17536 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.163.56] (pm3shep1-163-56.intrepid.net [209.190.163.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16446; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:27:51 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:28:14 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Joel Salatin Speaking at Claymont Farm CSA 4/20 Cc: kir39@hotmail.com, comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, CSA-L@prairienet.org, World Sustainable Agriculture Association Reply-To: bdnow@envirolink.org Sender: owner-bdnow@envirolink.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 480 Internationally acclaimed relational marketing and holistic resource management guru, Joel Salatin, will speak for one hour tomorrow afternoon at Claymont Court, a 365 acre organic/biodynamic estate outside of Charles Town, WV. The topic of the lecture will be 'Holistic Resource Management on Your Small Farm Enterprise.' A grass-fed beef tasting will follow as will a question and answer period. Admission is free for farmers, interns and students. Please call (304) 876-2373 to make a reservation. (or email csa@claymont.org) Joel will be selling his three books (Pastured Poultry Profits, Salad Bar Beef, and You Can Farm!) as well as grass-fed beef and eggs from pasture following this event. Mr. Salatin's visit is part of the on-going Claymont Farm CSA local food economy education initiative. If you would like to be notified of other events at Claymont, please respond to this message. Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA BIODYNAMICS Now! Contact Info: POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Apr 19 12:38:16 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13526 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17156 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09917; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:28:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09851 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:28:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.190.163.56] (pm3shep1-163-56.intrepid.net [209.190.163.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16446; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:27:51 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:28:14 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Joel Salatin Speaking at Claymont Farm CSA 4/20 Cc: kir39@hotmail.com, comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, CSA-L@prairienet.org, World Sustainable Agriculture Association Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 481 Internationally acclaimed relational marketing and holistic resource management guru, Joel Salatin, will speak for one hour tomorrow afternoon at Claymont Court, a 365 acre organic/biodynamic estate outside of Charles Town, WV. The topic of the lecture will be 'Holistic Resource Management on Your Small Farm Enterprise.' A grass-fed beef tasting will follow as will a question and answer period. Admission is free for farmers, interns and students. Please call (304) 876-2373 to make a reservation. (or email csa@claymont.org) Joel will be selling his three books (Pastured Poultry Profits, Salad Bar Beef, and You Can Farm!) as well as grass-fed beef and eggs from pasture following this event. Mr. Salatin's visit is part of the on-going Claymont Farm CSA local food economy education initiative. If you would like to be notified of other events at Claymont, please respond to this message. Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA BIODYNAMICS Now! Contact Info: POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 12:47:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13683 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA17711 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:45:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17705 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.187] (st-ppp13.hevanet.com [198.5.254.187]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02142; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904191545.IAA02142@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:47:05 -0700 Subject: FW: Microbes Help Scientists Sucker Sap Beetles From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET CC: AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA17707 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 482 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Microbes Help Scientists Sucker Sap Beetles Date: Mon, Apr 19, 1999, 6:47 AM STORY LEAD: Microbes Help Scientists Sucker Sap Beetles ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov April 19, 1999 ----------- For the first time, scientists have identified chemical signals that pineapple beetles heed to find food. The pests swarm to unusual airborne compounds made by microbes in addition to more common aromas emitted by decaying fruit. The discovery by Agricultural Research Service scientists gives researchers a broader view for finding ways to synthesize "calling cards" to most effectively trap various species of nitidulids, also known as sap beetles. Someday, traps that monitor nitidulids may be used by growers and shippers to decide whether to apply pesticides. Nitidulid control may become increasingly important with the advent of "green" methods to control other insects. For example, some sweet corn is genetically engineered with a protein to fight off caterpillars, reducing the need for insecticide applications. Nitidulids are undeterred by the protein. As use of insecticides that normally control both types of insects is discontinued, nitidulids may thrive and inflict widespread kernel damage. In addition to munching on pineapple, the pineapple beetleCarpophilus humeralisfeeds on dates, citrus and sugarcane. In tests at the National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research at Peoria, Ill., three newly isolated microbial compounds attracted the pineapple beetles in a wind tunnel. The compounds were 4-ethyl-2-methoxyphenol, 2,5-diisopropylpyrazine and 2-phenylethanol. The pyrazine had never before been found in nature. Generally, Robert J. Bartelt, an entomologist with USDA's Agricultural Research Service, and Bruce Zilkowski, a technician turned support scientist, have found that when males of other nitidulid species get a whiff of a favorite fermenting food, they make their own additional chemical attractants called pheromones to call males and females alike to dinner. An d it seems, the more complex the mix, the merrier. The researchers have synthesized pheromones produced by nine other nitidulid species. An article about the sap beetle research appears in the April issue of Agricultural Research magazine, available online at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr99/micr0499.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Robert J. Bartelt, ARS National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., phone (309)681-6237, bartelrj@mail.ncaur.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 13:20:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14650 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA10957 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:28:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10950 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08507 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.163.56] (pm3shep1-163-56.intrepid.net [209.190.163.56]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16446; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:27:51 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:28:14 -0500 To: bdnow@envirolink.org From: Intergalactic Garage Subject: Joel Salatin Speaking at Claymont Farm CSA 4/20 Cc: kir39@hotmail.com, comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, CSA-L@prairienet.org, World Sustainable Agriculture Association Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 483 Internationally acclaimed relational marketing and holistic resource management guru, Joel Salatin, will speak for one hour tomorrow afternoon at Claymont Court, a 365 acre organic/biodynamic estate outside of Charles Town, WV. The topic of the lecture will be 'Holistic Resource Management on Your Small Farm Enterprise.' A grass-fed beef tasting will follow as will a question and answer period. Admission is free for farmers, interns and students. Please call (304) 876-2373 to make a reservation. (or email csa@claymont.org) Joel will be selling his three books (Pastured Poultry Profits, Salad Bar Beef, and You Can Farm!) as well as grass-fed beef and eggs from pasture following this event. Mr. Salatin's visit is part of the on-going Claymont Farm CSA local food economy education initiative. If you would like to be notified of other events at Claymont, please respond to this message. Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA BIODYNAMICS Now! Contact Info: POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 (304) 876-2373 (815) 550-6067 FAX Forwarding =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 14:14:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA15638 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09780 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:22:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09764 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDF9WY>; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:25:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: USDA LAUNCHES NEW CAMPAIGN TO HELP SMALL FARMS Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:25:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 484 Sanet: USDA LAUNCHES NEW CAMPAIGN TO HELP SMALL FARMS (see below) The tip sheets for this campaign are on the SARE web site: http://www.sare.org/san/tipsheet/index.htm Or see the Education link on our home page: http://www.sare.org Andy -----Original Message----- From: Jill Auburn [mailto:jauburn@reeusda.gov] Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 6:49 AM The press release on the "Farming for Profit, Stewardship & Community" campaign is on the web at the URL below. I've also pasted the text into this message. Please distribute widely! Thx, Jill Auburn http://www.usda.gov/news/releases/1999/04/0167 USDA LAUNCHES NEW CAMPAIGN TO HELP SMALL FARMS Release No. 0167.99 Media Contact: Laura Trivers (202) 720-4623 laura.trivers@usda.gov Public Contact: Valerie Berton (301) 405-3186 vberton@wam.umd.edu USDA LAUNCHES NEW CAMPAIGN TO HELP SMALL FARMS WASHINGTON, April 19, 1999 -- Helping small farmers cut costs and increase profits are the goals of a new education campaign being launched this week by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The campaign, "Farming for Profit, Stewardship & Community," will provide information to producers on sustainable agriculture practices that can help farmers succeed. "These are systems that farmers can use to cut production costs and add value to their products, even as they reduce the impact on their land," said Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman, in announcing the education effort. "We want to make sure that producers know what sustainable agriculture is, how it can be applied to their operations, and where they can go for help." USDA's Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education program is in its twelfth year. In that time, SARE has awarded some 1,400 grants to researchers, farmers, extension specialists and community-based organizations to help producers put a variety of sustainable practices to work for them. The education campaign was one of the recommendations of the National Commission on Small Farms, which examined ways USDA could help ensure that small farms not only survive, but thrive, in coming years. This new campaign is part of USDA's efforts to implement the recommendations of the Commission. "Concentration, global economics and other factors have contributed to tough times for many of our small farmers," Glickman said. "These are some of the ways they can fight back." The campaign will reach out to producers and USDA employees, providing 'tip sheets' on top resources available on major topics: soil quality, pest prevention, organic production, livestock costs, weed management, crop diversification, planning, networking, and agroforestry. "The information is available, but it can be difficult to get to and use" said SARE director Jill Auburn. "Our goal is to bring practical information and resources to smaller producers. And we're looking for as many ways to distribute this as we can." Thousands of copies of the tip sheets will be distributed across the country, through USDA field offices and local organizations. The campaign will also reach out to USDA field staff, ensuring that they have the most up-to- date information available on these practices to share with producers. "This campaign is just one more example of how USDA is working to strengthen our nation's smaller farm operations," Auburn said. "Our goal in the next three years is to get this information into the hands of as many producers and USDA frontline staff as possible." For copies of the tip sheets or additional information on SARE, contact Valerie Berton at (301) 405-3186. # Jill Auburn Director, Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education USDA-CSREES-ECS jauburn@reeusda.gov 202-720-5384 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 15:09:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16618 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA29309 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:56:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29253 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.53] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:55:59 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:07:55 -0400 Subject: Farm Design Workshop May 26-29 From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3007375675_222010_MIME_Part" Message-ID: <19990419175559863.AAA285@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.53]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 485 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3007375675_222010_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Designing Farms For A Future That Matters, using Permanent Agriculture and Holistic Management. May 26 to 29, 1999 A 4-day intensive instruction and demonstration of creating profitable farm enterprises that sustain us economically, environmentally, socially and emotionally. With Joel Salatin, Andy Lee, and Preston Sullivan. Designing sustainable farms begins with determining the quality of life the farmer wants for self and family. Too many farmers are alienated from themselves, from the land and from their families by time, markets, debt and "modern" farming practices. Year by year farms go out of business, families divide, and the health and vitality of our communities and our soils declines. Its not enough to have just a business plan. We need instead a "quality of life" plan, that enables us to enjoy the people and the land that sustains us. Persons who will want to attend this course include farmers and market gardeners, extension and agricultural development personnel, college and university faculty, and sustainable agriculture advocates. Joel Salatin is the author of Salad Bar Beef, Pastured Poultry Profits and You Can Farm. He raises salad bar beef, pigerator pork, pastured broilers, turkeys and rabbits, to sell to over 400 families and dozens of stores and restaurants in central Virginia. Andy Lee is the author of Backyard Market Gardening and Chicken Tractor. He raises grass beef, bush hogs, free-range broilers and roasters and turkeys, asparagus and strawberries to sell through his farm shop. He researches breeder flocks of Rock Cross broilers and Sweetgrass turkeys and is building a VDACS inspected poultry processing facility at his farm. Preston Sullivan, Ph.D Agronomy, is a project director at ATTRA. He is a certified educator in holistic management, and has studied for many years with HM founder Alan Savory. Tuition $485 ($585 after May 5th) includes books, lunches and farm tours of Lee's Good Earth Farm and Salatin's Polyface Farm. Andy Lee, Director Good Earth Farm School 1702 Mountain View Road Buena Vista, Virginia 24416 Phone and fax: 540-261-8775 --MS_Mac_OE_3007375675_222010_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Farm Design Workshop May 26-29 Designing Farms For A Future That Matters, using Permanent Agriculture = and
    Holistic Management. May 26 to 29, 1999

    A 4-day intensive instruction and demonstration of creating profitable farm=
    enterprises that sustain us economically, environmentally, socially and
    emotionally. With Joel Salatin, Andy Lee, and Preston Sullivan.
    Designing sustainable farms begins with determining the quality of life the=
    farmer wants for self and family. Too many farmers are alienated from
    themselves, from the land and from their families by time, markets, debt an= d
    "modern" farming practices. Year by year farms go out of business= , families
    divide, and the health and vitality of our communities and our soils
    declines. Its not enough to have just a business plan. We need instead a "quality of life" plan, that enables us to enjoy the people and t= he land
    that sustains us.
    Persons who will want to attend this course include farmers and market
    gardeners, extension and agricultural development personnel, college and university faculty, and sustainable agriculture advocates.
    Joel Salatin is the author of Salad Bar Beef, Pastured Poultry Profits and<= BR> You Can Farm. He raises salad bar beef, pigerator pork, pastured broilers,<= BR> turkeys and rabbits, to sell to over 400 families and dozens of stores and<= BR> restaurants in central Virginia.
    Andy Lee is the author of Backyard Market Gardening and Chicken Tractor. He=
    raises grass beef, bush hogs, free-range broilers and roasters and turkeys,=
    asparagus and strawberries to sell through his farm shop. He researches
    breeder flocks of Rock Cross broilers and Sweetgrass turkeys and is buildin= g
    a VDACS inspected poultry processing facility at his farm.
    Preston Sullivan, Ph.D Agronomy, is a project director at ATTRA. He is a certified educator in holistic management, and has studied for many years with HM founder Alan Savory.
    Tuition $485 ($585 after May 5th) includes books, lunches and farm tours of=
    Lee's Good Earth Farm and Salatin's Polyface Farm.

    Andy Lee, Director
    Good Earth Farm School
    1702 Mountain View Road
    Buena Vista, Virginia 24416
    Phone and fax: 540-261-8775

    --MS_Mac_OE_3007375675_222010_MIME_Part-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 15:43:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17721 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA24976 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:48:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA24908 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA11227 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.228] (term6-5.vta.west.net [205.254.241.197]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CE0B524BDB; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:48:13 -0700 To: , , , From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Continued use of other pesticides in Bt corn Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 486 The ARS report below explains that, even if catarpillars are (to a degree) controlled by the Bt toxin expressed in GE corn, growers may well continue to use other pesticides to control nitidulids or other pests, because control of caterpillars was only one of the original justifications for pesticide use. This further weakens claims that Bt or other pesticide-expressing crops reduce pesticide use. ---------------------------------------------------- Exerpt from: >ARS News Service >Agricultural Research Service, USDA >Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov >April 19, 1999 > >For the first time, scientists have identified chemical signals that >pineapple beetles heed to find food. The pests swarm to unusual airborne >compounds made by microbes in addition to more common aromas emitted by >decaying fruit. > >The discovery by Agricultural Research Service scientists gives researchers >a broader view for finding ways to synthesize "calling cards" to most >effectively trap various species of nitidulids, also known as sap beetles. >Someday, traps that monitor nitidulids may be used by growers and shippers >to decide whether to apply pesticides. > >Nitidulid control may become increasingly important with the advent of >"green" methods to control other insects. For example, some sweet corn is >genetically engineered with a protein to fight off caterpillars, reducing >the need for insecticide applications. Nitidulids are undeterred by the >protein. As use of insecticides that normally control both types of insects >is discontinued, nitidulids may thrive and inflict widespread kernel damage... > > > >An article about the sap beetle research appears in the April issue of >Agricultural Research magazine, available online at: > > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr99/micr0499.htm > >Scientific contact: Robert J. Bartelt, ARS National Center for Agricultural >Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., phone (309)681-6237, >bartelrj@mail.ncaur.usda.gov. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 17:02:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA19397 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA12063 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:08:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12053 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDF0XR>; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:12:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'lhalprin@ucdavis.edu'" Subject: FW: UC SAREP newsletter on Web Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:12:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 487 Forwarded: -----Original Message----- From: Lyra Halprin [mailto:lhalprin@ucdavis.edu] Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 3:09 PM To: aclark@nal.usda.gov Subject: UC SAREP newsletter on Web Andy: I'd appreciate if you could send the following message to sanet-mg. Thanks so much for your help. Lyra -------------------- The Winter 1999 issue of the statewide University of California Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program's (SAREP) triquarterly newsletter "Sustainable Agriculture" is now available at SAREP's Web site, http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu This edition includes: *From the Director: New Leadership for SAREP *SAREP Funds Graduate Student, Meeting Grants *Citrus is Focus of New Biologically Integrated Farming Systems (BIFS) Project *Project Update: A Nitrogen Fertilizer Recommendation Model for Almonds *Retail Farmers' Markets and Rural Development: Creating Jobs and Growing Businesses IN THE TECHNICAL REVIEWS SECTION: *Production Guide: Nitrogen and water management for coastal cool-season vegetables Other: *Resources: Learning from Community Gardens, Cover Cropping in Vineyards, Low Income Farmers' Markets *Sources of Funding: BIFS grants, Organic research grants To receive a free hard copy version of any issue from the 11 years of "Sustainable Agriculture" contact: SAREP University of California One Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616-8716 email: sarep@ucdavis.edu phone: (530) 752-7556 _______________________________________________ Lyra Halprin, public information officer University of California Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education Program (UC SAREP) Davis, CA 95616 Voice: (530) 752-8664 FAX: (530) 754-8550 lhalprin@ucdavis.edu Award Winning Web Site: http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 18:11:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA20474 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23591 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:23:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23565 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14943 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA29043 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:23:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199904192123.QAA29043@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:23:32 -0500 Subject: Updated MACSAC Web site X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 488 Howdy, all-- Just a note to inform you that the Web site for the Madison Area Community Supported Agriculture Coalition has been updated (as of about 3 1/2 minutes ago). Tune in to learn more. http://www.wisc.edu/cias/macsac/index.html peace mish <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 18:22:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA21639 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA04140 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:43:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA04132 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from josef ([208.141.36.98]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.56) with SMTP id 431 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:49:10 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990419164155.007e8cb0@iatp.org> X-Sender: vtran@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:41:55 -0500 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Ven Mai Tran" Subject: Workshop: Creating Incentives for Farmer-Led Water Protection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 489 leftCreating Incentives for Farmer-led Source Water Protection A Workshop on Cooperative Agreements between=20 Drinking Water Providers and Farmers July 26-27, 1999 Fawcett Center Ohio State University Columbus,Ohio USA =20 Sponsored by the American Water Works Association and the Institute for Agriculture & Trade Policy To register, go to www.iatp.org/watershed or=20 Contact: Mark Muller Institute for Agriculture & Trade Policy 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 leftPhone: (612)= 870-3420 Fax: (612) 870-4846 Email: mmuller@iatp.org Introduction A number of win-win opportunities exist for the agricultural community and=20 water suppliers to support the long-term viability of both farming and=20 healthy drinking water sources. A more traditional attitude that the=20 interests of these groups are mutually exclusive is being replaced by the=20 emerging recognition that clean water is the shared responsibility of=20 multiple parties and partnerships.=20 A growing number of utilities are now providing incentives to farmers for=20 reducing the water quality impacts of their activities. In many cases, these=20 incentives enhance agricultural productivity and viability while improving=20 downstream water quality. This workshop will gather people who are interested in forming partnerships=20 between farmers and water utilities. Several individuals who have=20 participated in successful partnerships in North America and Europe will be=20 in attendance to share their stories.=20 =20 =20 Issues to be covered =B7 The economics of source water protection (SWP) vs. end-of-pipe treatment=20 =B7 Using incentives or regulatory approaches=20 =B7 Surface water and groundwater--different sources, different issues=20 =B7 The feasibility of SWP in communities with large agricultural watersheds=20 =B7 Tools to measure a farm's environmental performance =20 Who should attend =B7 Water utilities and their consultants=20 =B7 Farmers, farm organizations, cooperatives, custom applicators, crop=20 consultants=20 =B7 Local, state and federal regulators=20 =B7 Consumer and environmental groups =20 Draft Program Monday, July 26 1999 (Workshop convenes at 1:00 PM) 1:00 PM Introduction to source water protection (SWP), agricultural best=20 management practices (BMP), wellhead protection, and relevant policy issues. 2:00 PM Field trip to visit watershed and source water protection activities=20 around Columbus 6:00 PM Reception and dinner at the Fawcett Center Tuesday, July 27 1999 9:00 AM A discussion of source water protection (SWP) case studies including:=09 Columbus, Ohio=20 New York City/Catskills Des Moines, Iowa=20 The Netherlands 12:00 PM Lunch at the Fawcett Center=09 1:00 PM Panel and roundtable discussions on agriculture and SWP in the=20 Midwest.=09 3:00 PM Using Columbus, Ohio as a case study--what has been done, what has=20 worked, what other avenues should be explored, and how to bring these ideas=20 to our own communities.=09 5:00 PM Adjourn=09 =20 Participating Organizations Center for Rural Affairs Clean Water Action=20 Duane Sand Consulting Inc. Ohio Citizen Action Ohio Rivers Unlimited =09 Scioto River Valley Federation=20 Univ. of Wisconsin Center for Integrated Agriculture=20 Wisconsin Rural Development Center=20 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 19:02:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22726 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA24172 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:18:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA24161 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA15797 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:18:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA30956 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:18:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199904192218.RAA30956@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:18:10 -0500 Subject: Echinacea growers/reviewers X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 490 Howdy, all-- I'm writing for help with something. I'm looking for folks who have grown /Echinacea/ commercially who might be willing to review a short (800-1000 words) manuscript on /Echinacea/ as a potential crop for Wisconsin farmers. My CIAS colleague Don Schuster has done an analysis of the potential here...and our review process always involves farmers/growers. Any leads would be welcome. Thanks a bunch. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis: Anarcho-syndicalism is a way of *preserving* freedom! His Wife: Oh, Dennis, *forget* about freedom! We 'aven't got enough mud! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 22:18:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA25768 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA12640 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.ppi-far.org (mail.ppi-far.org [198.78.10.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA12517 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:23:43 -0400 Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from ibm770 (206.185.4.113::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:23:41 -0400 From: "Harold Reetz" To: Cc: Subject: Misinterpretation Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:20:55 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01be8acc$09cf61e0$7cdafea9@ibm770> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 491 I think you have really misinterpreted the whole point of the ARS Report which was to say that the success of the bt program and the discovery of the chemical "signal" for the sap feeders would further support the development of "green" ---that is non-pesticide approaches to controlling other insects to reduce or even eliminate the need for synthetic chemical insecticides. I fail to see why you consider this a negative! Harold Reetz ========================================== Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research 111 East Washington Street Monticello, Illinois 61856 Phone: 217-762-2074 FAX: 217-762-8655 e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far,org/infoag99 Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 19 23:57:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA27140 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:57:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA15613 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:12:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from iac12.navix.net (iac12.navix.net [207.91.5.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA15591 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from navix.net (cras45p36.navix.net [206.158.194.166]) by iac12.navix.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20466; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:02:16 -0500 Message-ID: <371C0C26.204D6029@navix.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:09:59 -0700 From: Richard Mazour X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin Smyth CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices References: <199904171718.NAA02560@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 492 Cretified Organic? Maybe $16 spot now. My yield in south central Nebraska around 30 dryland.I'm not planting them this year. Know how to control been leaf beattle ? They have found my paradise. Rich Kevin Smyth wrote: > Friends - anybody know what a bushel of certified Vinton soybeans fetches > nowadays? And what the average per-acre yield is? > > Thanks much, > Kevin Smyth > ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 03:06:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA29829 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 03:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA06620 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:24:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA06597 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.7) with ESMTP id S.0000118352 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:20:34 +0100 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), d.richardson@mail.utexas.edu Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:20:55 +0100 Subject: GE Question: Bt and honey bees Message-ID: <145620958.74146135@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 493 Does anyone know of effects of Bt pollen on larval survival or fertility of honey bees? Thanks, Dick R. H. (Dick) Richardson (512) 471-4128 office Integrative Biology 471-9651 FAX Patterson Lab University of Texas Austin, TX 78712 "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are." -- Anas Nin From: Dick Richardson GE: Question: Bt and honey bees -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 11:54:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07492 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05908 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:53:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (webserf.net [204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05899 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:52:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199904201452.KAA05899@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.170] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A48A215020A; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:51:54 CST From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:51:42 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: BT effects on soil microorganisms Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 494 On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:03:12 EST, E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor wrote: >These papers show, among other things, that active Bt toxins can >persist for extended periods of time in the soil, bound to *clay* >particles, where they resist breakdown but retain activity. Just a reminder that this reflects only part of the picture. In soils with OM >3% clay particles are almost universally out of the equation because they've been completely enveloped in organic matter. This is a common flaw in many chemical pesticide adsorption studies as well. Owing to temperature and oxygen dependent OM equilibria dynamics, this clay envelopment phenomenon will be more common in cooler climates and less well-drained soils. In theory, too, organic farms will have higher OM. I hope someone builds on the research and looks at the Bt -- OM interaction too. Does anyone know of any beneficial leps whose larval stage feeds in agricultural soils ? Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 12:11:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07973 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA24009 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:30:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA23935 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.108] (br-ppp26.hevanet.com [198.5.254.108]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA25113; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904201530.IAA25113@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:31:53 -0700 Subject: FW: Are you looking for bees? From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: apple news group CC: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 495 ---------- From: X Pollinator To: Multiple recipients of list SMALLFRUIT Subject: Are you looking for bees? Date: Tue, Apr 20, 1999, 4:06 AM The Pollination Home Page has a listing of US and Canadian beekeepers who have bees available for pollination service. We have now begun a separate listing of growers who are seeking beekeepers. If you are looking for bees, or have bees available, please e-mail with your complete info. We are doing our best to get all listings on within 24 hours. The page address is: http://www.pollinator.com This is a free service; no endorsements or recommendations are expressed or implied. Pollinator@aol.com or Gardenbees@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 14:24:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA11216 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24381 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:25:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24325 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDGHGN>; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:29:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "sanet-mg (E-mail)" Subject: FW: (UK) Lectureship in dairy production science (organic) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:29:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 496 -----Original Message----- From: Nic Lampkin [mailto:nhl@aber.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 12:36 PM To: sanet; Carolyn Wacher; Sue Fowler; Susanne Padel; Carolyn Foster; Dan Powell; Lesley Langstaff; Christina Marley; Heather McCalman; Peter Midmore; ecolagric Subject: Lectureship in dairy production science (organic) Please will you draw the following post to the attention of suitable individuals. UNIVERSITY OF WALES ABERYSTWYTH WELSH INSTITUTE OF RURAL STUDIES LECTURESHIP IN DAIRY PRODUCTION SCIENCE The University invites applications for a Lectureship specialising in any aspect of the science of milk production, for which an interest in organic production would be a distinct advantage. The successful candidate will need to be able to demonstrate effective teaching performance at undergraduate and postgraduate levels and be highly motivated to develop the Institute's research profile. The salary scale for a Lecturer is GBP 16,655 to 29,048 per annum. Further particulars and application forms may be obtained by contacting the Personnel Office, Old College, King Street, Aberystwyth, Ceredigion SY23 2AX. Tel: 01970 621832; fax: 01970 622975; email: personnel@aber.ac.uk. Closing date for applications: 28 May 1999 to take up appointment on 1 September 1999. Further details will also be available shortly on: http://www.aber.ac.uk/~perwww/jobs.html or www.jobs.ac.uk To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 15:12:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12103 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA19102 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:13:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sand5.global.net.uk (IDENT:exim@sand5.global.net.uk [194.126.80.249]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA19061 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p6ds02a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.210.110] helo=globalnet) by sand5.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10Zf1K-0005JC-00 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:13:19 +0100 Message-ID: <00ab01be8b59$84388780$3fd693c3@co.uk> From: "Alan Sloan" To: References: <199904192210.SAA18290@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #972 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:02:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 497 Insofar as it is possible, I 'd like to get hold of some figures which would represent the "sustianable" yields per hectare of (Preferably finished) cotton, flax and other vegetable based fibres. The question is horribly general, but a general answer is actually wanted, to be used in an assessment of what is "globally" sustainable. To give an idea of the terms of reference I am using a figure of 3 tonnes per hectare as a typical yield of wheat, as that would allow a wide margin of safety, low rainfall in some countries, and allowance for changes which may be required in the future to secure permanent sustainability. Any Ideas? Alan Sloan To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 15:31:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12511 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA29795 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:34:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f88.hotmail.com [207.82.250.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA29783 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30863 invoked by uid 0); 20 Apr 1999 18:34:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990420183439.30861.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.155.39.25 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:34:16 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.155.39.25] From: "scott peterson" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #972 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:34:16 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 498 STOP THIS SUBSCRIPTION NOW!!! >From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu (sanet-mg-digest) >Reply-To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #972 >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:10:05 -0400 (EDT) > >sanet-mg-digest Monday, April 19 1999 Volume 01 : Number 972 > > > >In this issue: > > Continued use of other pesticides in Bt corn > PANUPS: Herbicides on CA Roads > FW: UC SAREP newsletter on Web > Updated MACSAC Web site > Workshop: Creating Incentives for Farmer-Led Water Protection > >See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:48:13 -0700 >From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) >Subject: Continued use of other pesticides in Bt corn > >The ARS report below explains that, even if catarpillars are (to a degree) >controlled by the Bt toxin expressed in GE corn, growers may well continue >to use other pesticides to control nitidulids or other pests, because >control of caterpillars was only one of the original justifications for >pesticide use. This further weakens claims that Bt or other >pesticide-expressing crops reduce pesticide use. > >- ---------------------------------------------------- >Exerpt from: > >>ARS News Service >>Agricultural Research Service, USDA >>Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov >>April 19, 1999 >> >>For the first time, scientists have identified chemical signals that >>pineapple beetles heed to find food. The pests swarm to unusual airborne >>compounds made by microbes in addition to more common aromas emitted by >>decaying fruit. >> >>The discovery by Agricultural Research Service scientists gives researchers >>a broader view for finding ways to synthesize "calling cards" to most >>effectively trap various species of nitidulids, also known as sap beetles. >>Someday, traps that monitor nitidulids may be used by growers and shippers >>to decide whether to apply pesticides. >> >>Nitidulid control may become increasingly important with the advent of >>"green" methods to control other insects. For example, some sweet corn is >>genetically engineered with a protein to fight off caterpillars, reducing >>the need for insecticide applications. Nitidulids are undeterred by the >>protein. As use of insecticides that normally control both types of insects >>is discontinued, nitidulids may thrive and inflict widespread kernel damage... >> >> >> >>An article about the sap beetle research appears in the April issue of >>Agricultural Research magazine, available online at: >> >> http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr99/micr0499.htm >> >>Scientific contact: Robert J. Bartelt, ARS National Center for Agricultural >>Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., phone (309)681-6237, >>bartelrj@mail.ncaur.usda.gov. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:16:36 -0700 (PDT) >From: panupdates@igc.apc.org >Subject: PANUPS: Herbicides on CA Roads > >=========================================== >P A N U P S >Pesticide Action Network Updates Service >=========================================== > >Caltrans' Excessive Herbicide Use on California Roads > >April 19, 1999 > >A recent report by Californians for Alternatives to Toxics (CATs) >reveals that California Department of Transportation (Caltrans), in >conjunction with county road agencies, douses California roadsides >with more than 132,000 gallons of liquid and 93,000 lbs. of solid >herbicides each year. Caltrans applies approximately five gallons and >two pounds of chemical weed killers per mile on the state's 15,000 >miles of highways. In addition, CATs found that 51 of California's 58 >counties rely on herbicides to kill weeds, and use on average, more than >one pound and one gallon of chemicals per mile along the 64,000 miles >of road under county management. In 1992 Caltrans pledged to reduce >roadside spraying by 50% by the year 2000, however, no clear >measures towards this goal have been taken. > >Of the eight herbicides most commonly used, the U.S. Environmental >Protection Agency has identified six as possible human carcinogens, >while four are linked to birth defects. Seven of the eight chemicals are >toxic to fish while four are harmful to birds. Four of the herbicides have >been found in groundwater by California's Department of Pesticide >Regulation, and three quarters may be air pollutants. > >"What this report shows is that Caltrans and the majority of county road >agencies are putting appearance first before the health and safety of >Californians. Moreover, herbicide spraying occurs often without the >knowledge of neighboring communities and people who regularly work >and travel on those thoroughfares," said Patty Clary, Executive Director >of CATs, an Arcata-based non-profit research organization committed >to reducing pesticide use in California. > >The study by CATs is the first of its kind to survey herbicide use on the >freeways under Caltrans' jurisdiction and roads under county >ownership. CATs spent two years gathering data from Caltrans and >road agencies in all 58 counties. Caltrans, the single largest user of >herbicides in the state, spends an estimated US$6 million a year on >herbicides- more than a quarter of its annual budget earmarked for >"vegetation control." > >Alternatives Exist > >Despite agency reluctance to reduce the use of herbicides, several >affordable non-toxic alternatives exist. Among them is an Integrated >Vegetation Management Plan (IVM) which includes several treatment >methods. Past studies have found the use of steam spraying machines >highly effective in killing weeds, and that corn gluten inhibits weeds >from sprouting. > >Both alternatives are currently being explored in isolated, underfunded >studies by Caltrans and the University of California, as is the use of >fire-resistant native plants to choke out unwanted weeds. > >Based on their investigations, CATs strongly urges Caltrans and county >road agencies to change their roadside management plans to ensure the >health and safety of California residents and wildlife. Specific >recommendations for state and local agencies include: > >*Invest as much money in alternative weed management plans as is >currently spent. >*Advanced on-site warnings of herbicide use should be posted during >the transition from chemical to non-chemical roadside treatment. >*Audit existing records of herbicide use to assess actual annual cost of >herbicide spending in order to provide an economic comparison for >alternatives. > >Source: Californians for Alternatives to Toxics, "The Poisoning of >Public Thoroughfares: How Herbicides Blight California's Roads," >Spring 1999. Copies available from CATs for US$12 plus $2 shipping. > >Contact: Californians for Alternatives to Toxics, P.O. Box 1195, >Arcata, CA 95518; phone (707) 822-8497; fax (707) 822-7136; email >catz@reninet.com; web site www.reninet.com/catz. > >========================================== >Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) >49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA >Phone: (415) 981-1771 >Fax: (415) 981-1991 >Email: panna@panna.org >Web: www.panna.org > >To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org >with the following text on one line: subscribe panups >To unsubscribe, use: unsubscribe panups >=========================================== > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:12:02 -0400 >From: Andy Clark >Subject: FW: UC SAREP newsletter on Web > >Forwarded: > >- -----Original Message----- >From: Lyra Halprin [mailto:lhalprin@ucdavis.edu] >Sent: Monday, April 19, 1999 3:09 PM >To: aclark@nal.usda.gov >Subject: UC SAREP newsletter on Web > > >Andy: >I'd appreciate if you could send the following message to sanet-mg. > >Thanks so much for your help. >Lyra >- -------------------- > >The Winter 1999 issue of the statewide University of California Sustainable >Agriculture Research and Education Program's (SAREP) triquarterly >newsletter "Sustainable Agriculture" is now available at SAREP's Web site, >http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu > >This edition includes: >*From the Director: New Leadership for SAREP >*SAREP Funds Graduate Student, Meeting Grants >*Citrus is Focus of New Biologically Integrated Farming Systems (BIFS) >Project >*Project Update: A Nitrogen Fertilizer Recommendation Model for Almonds >*Retail Farmers' Markets and Rural Development: Creating Jobs and Growing >Businesses > >IN THE TECHNICAL REVIEWS SECTION: >*Production Guide: Nitrogen and water management for coastal cool- season >vegetables > >Other: >*Resources: >Learning from Community Gardens, Cover Cropping in Vineyards, Low Income >Farmers' Markets >*Sources of Funding: >BIFS grants, Organic research grants > >To receive a free hard copy version of any issue from the 11 years of >"Sustainable Agriculture" contact: >SAREP >University of California >One Shields Ave. >Davis, CA 95616-8716 > >email: sarep@ucdavis.edu >phone: (530) 752-7556 > >_______________________________________________ >Lyra Halprin, public information officer >University of California Sustainable Agriculture >Research & Education Program (UC SAREP) >Davis, CA 95616 >Voice: (530) 752-8664 >FAX: (530) 754-8550 >lhalprin@ucdavis.edu >Award Winning Web Site: http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:23:32 -0500 >From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" >Subject: Updated MACSAC Web site > >Howdy, all-- > >Just a note to inform you that the Web site for the Madison Area >Community Supported Agriculture Coalition has been updated (as of >about 3 1/2 minutes ago). > >Tune in to learn more. > >http://www.wisc.edu/cias/macsac/index.html > >peace >mish > > > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager >Center for Integrated Ag Systems >UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences >Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 >http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >If you knew what life was worth, you >would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:41:55 -0500 >From: "Ven Mai Tran" >Subject: Workshop: Creating Incentives for Farmer-Led Water Protection > >leftCreating Incentives for Farmer- led >Source Water Protection > > >A Workshop on Cooperative Agreements between=20 > >Drinking Water Providers and Farmers > > >July 26-27, 1999 > >Fawcett Center > >Ohio State University Columbus,Ohio USA > >=20 > >Sponsored by the American Water Works Association and the > >Institute for Agriculture & Trade Policy > > >To register, go to www.iatp.org/watershed or=20 > >Contact: > > >Mark Muller > >Institute for Agriculture & Trade Policy > >2105 First Avenue South > >Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 > >leftPhone: (612)= > 870-3420 > >Fax: (612) 870-4846 > >Email: mmuller@iatp.org > > > > >Introduction > >A number of win-win opportunities exist for the agricultural >community and=20 > >water suppliers to support the long-term viability of both farming and=20 > >healthy drinking water sources. A more traditional attitude that the=20 > >interests of these groups are mutually exclusive is being replaced by the=20 > >emerging recognition that clean water is the shared responsibility of=20 > >multiple parties and partnerships.=20 > > >A growing number of utilities are now providing incentives to farmers for=20 > >reducing the water quality impacts of their activities. In many cases, >these=20 > >incentives enhance agricultural productivity and viability while >improving=20 > >downstream water quality. > > >This workshop will gather people who are interested in forming >partnerships=20 > >between farmers and water utilities. Several individuals who have=20 > >participated in successful partnerships in North America and Europe will >be=20 > >in attendance to share their stories.=20 > >=20 > > =20 > >Issues to be covered > >=B7 The economics of source water protection (SWP) vs. end-of- pipe >treatment=20 > >=B7 Using incentives or regulatory approaches=20 > >=B7 Surface water and groundwater--different sources, different issues=20 > >=B7 The feasibility of SWP in communities with large agricultural >watersheds=20 > >=B7 Tools to measure a farm's environmental performance > >=20 > > Who should attend > >=B7 Water utilities and their consultants=20 > >=B7 Farmers, farm organizations, cooperatives, custom applicators, crop=20 > >consultants=20 > >=B7 Local, state and federal regulators=20 > >=B7 Consumer and environmental groups > >=20 > >Draft Program > >Monday, July 26 1999 (Workshop convenes at 1:00 PM) > >1:00 PM Introduction to source water protection (SWP), agricultural best=20 > >management practices (BMP), wellhead protection, and relevant policy >issues. > >2:00 PM Field trip to visit watershed and source water protection >activities=20 > >around Columbus > >6:00 PM Reception and dinner at the Fawcett Center > > >Tuesday, July 27 1999 > >9:00 AM A discussion of source water protection (SWP) case studies >including:=09 > > Columbus, Ohio=20 > >New York City/Catskills Des Moines, Iowa=20 > >The Netherlands > >12:00 PM Lunch at the Fawcett Center=09 > >1:00 PM Panel and roundtable discussions on agriculture and SWP in the=20 > >Midwest.=09 > >3:00 PM Using Columbus, Ohio as a case study--what has been done, what >has=20 > >worked, what other avenues should be explored, and how to bring these >ideas=20 > >to our own communities.=09 > >5:00 PM Adjourn=09 > >=20 > >Participating Organizations > >Center for Rural Affairs Clean Water Action=20 > >Duane Sand Consulting Inc. > >Ohio Citizen Action > >Ohio Rivers Unlimited =09 > >Scioto River Valley Federation=20 > >Univ. of Wisconsin Center for Integrated Agriculture=20 > >Wisconsin Rural Development Center=20 > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #972 >****************************** > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 18:46:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16893 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA25679 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:56:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA25557 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9685 invoked from network); 20 Apr 1999 21:56:29 -0000 Received: from dyn0106.gdsl.du.teleport.com (HELO mlm1) (216.26.47.107) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 1999 21:56:29 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990420145050.00aa8180@mail.teleport.com> X-Sender: mlm1@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:57:11 -0700 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Miles L. Merwin" Subject: agroforestry conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 499 The 6th North American Agroforestry Conference will be held June 12-16, 1999 at Hot Springs, AR. For more information, please visit the conference home page at www.missouri.edu/~afta/makeplansnaac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 19:30:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17329 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA24389 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:38:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA24373 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from johnbert.iatp.org ([208.141.36.113]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.56) with SMTP id 268 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:44:04 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990420174111.0087f9a0@iatp.org> X-Sender: jvickery@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:41:11 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "John Vickery" Subject: pesticide decision tool: call for farmer participants, reviewers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 500 Dear Sanet farmer participants (especially, corn and soybean growers) The Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP)* is working to reduce the environmental impacts of agriculture and improve water quality through the voluntary adoption of on-farm assessment and decision tools. One of IATP's tools, the Pesticide Decision Tool (PDT) facilitates the use of environmental information in the selection and management of pesticides in arable crop production. It is designed for use by farmers and their technical advisors, such as co-op agronomists, independent crop advisors, and NRCS, SWCD, and Extension specialists. The tool uses two approaches, Reference Tables and a screening tool for water contamination potential. We use a screening tool from the USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service called the Windows Pesticide Screening Tool. By taking into account the properties of both soils and pesticide active ingredients, one can determine a rating for the relative likelihood of ground and surface water contamination (to be more precise, percolation below root zone and runoff beyond edge of field, respectively). The Reference Tables are spreadsheets with environmental information and other decision factors such as production cost, crop tolerance ratings, persistence (carry over) ratings, and resistance risk ratings. For each active ingredient (along with the trade names), the environmental information includes water contamination potential ratings, long term exposure toxicity ratings for aquatic organisms, a set of on-farm exposure hazard ratings (signal word, acute toxicity, irritation), and a carcinogenicity rating. More detailed tables are available for herbicides; simplified tables are available for insecticides and fungicides. More information about the Pesticide Decision Tool is available at http://www.iatp.org/enviroag/pesticidesummary.htm. IATP is seeking participants, collaborators, and sponsoring organizations for field implementation, technical review, and improvement in 1999 and 2000. Efforts will be focused in corn and soybeans in the Midwest, but other crops and regions will be considered if sufficient resources are available. IATP is interested in obtaining some farmer input on the materials with respect to presentation/ appearance, readability, content, usefulness, and barriers to using the materials or making decisions that reflect the information in the PDT. The emphasis of the approach is on pesticide management rather than product selection, per se. Thus, the materials can be useful for the current field season even though most farmers will have already have their production/farm plans in place and purchased most of the crop protection products they expect to use this year. For additional information or to obtain a set of Pesticide Decision Tool materials, contact John Vickery, at IATP. Additional instructions and advice on PDT use can be given over the phone. This is best done once the prospective user has a copy to refer to. We would like to further expand our outreach efforts in the Midwest for the 2000 crop season. We welcome inquiries from agricultural professionals and opportunities to participate in training sessions and workshops for groups. The PDT is best used in conjunction with a more comprehensive program such as IPM/ICM, whole farm planning, BMP/conservation practices implementation projects, EQIP, and the like. There is no charge for materials, training, and advice. The PDT materials will be available at a website later this year. The software version of the pesticide screening tool (WinPST), along with instructions for downloading and installation, is available, free of charge, from an NRCS File Transfer Protocol site (ftp://ftp.ma.nrcs.usda.gov/outgoing/WIN_PST/) Thank you. Cordially, John Vickery Environment and Agriculture Program Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave., S. Minneapolis, MN 55404-2505, 612-870-3430 jvickery@iatp.org _____________ *IATP was founded in 1986 by agricultural and environmental leaders who recognized the need for an independent, non-profit research organization dedicated to finding and promoting economically supportive and ecologically balanced solutions to the challenges facing farmers and rural communities. IATP's work includes programs in agriculture policy analysis, incentives for sustainable agriculture, food safety, nutrient management, watershed protection, and sustainable forestry certification. The PDT project is part of IATP's Environment and Agriculture Program, directed by Bill Vorley. For more information on the Environment and Agriculture Program, see http://www.iatp.org/enviroag To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 19:53:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17542 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA04934 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:56:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wolff.acns.carleton.edu (Wolff.ACNS.Carleton.edu [137.22.1.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA04876 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:56:30 -0400 (EDT) From: BERTELSS@carleton.edu Received: from carleton.edu by carleton.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3482) id <01JA9JU4X9M88YASFQ@carleton.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:56:00 CDT Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:56:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #973 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <01JA9JU4YG028YASFQ@carleton.edu> X-VMS-To: IN%"sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" MIME-version: 1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 501 please take bertelss@carleton.edu off the mailing list thanks To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 21:40:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18849 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA11669 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:39:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA11587 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool016-max6.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.13.216]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id JKJ46C77; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 20:38:59 -0400 Message-ID: <371D1DA9.DAA5C620@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:36:57 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, alansloan@maccas.globalnet.co.uk Subject: Re: sustainable crop yields References: <199904202210.SAA04578@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 502 Check with the Organic Farming Research Foundation www.ofrf.org they produce a survey of US organic farmers including much detailed info- the summary is online, and the whole thing is mail obtainable- Please email me any other results you find. Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 20 23:39:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20742 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA26825 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:37:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA26801 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-38.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.182]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA20420; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:15:25 -0500 Message-Id: <199904210315.WAA20420@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Richard Mazour" , "Kevin Smyth" Cc: Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:33:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 503 I don't know of anyone in the eastern cornbelt that can get close to $16/bushel for organic soybeans right now and the word on the street is they don't have a contract in hand for this years crop nor can they get one. In fact I know quite a few farmers that are still setting on last years beans. Is that happening elsewhere? It almost looks like CRP might be the downfall of the organic grain market. Is it possible? Best wishes, Greg ---------- > From: Richard Mazour > To: Kevin Smyth > Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices > Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 12:09 AM > > Cretified Organic? Maybe $16 spot now. My yield in south central Nebraska > around 30 dryland.I'm not planting them this year. Know how to control been > leaf beattle ? They have found my paradise. Rich > > Kevin Smyth wrote: > > > Friends - anybody know what a bushel of certified Vinton soybeans fetches > > nowadays? And what the average per-acre yield is? > > > > Thanks much, > > Kevin Smyth > > ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 01:33:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22391 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA23062 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:53:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from iac20.navix.net (iac20.navix.net [207.91.5.26]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA23025 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from navix.net (cras45p22.navix.net [206.158.194.152]) by iac20.navix.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA05331; Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:48:52 -0500 Message-ID: <371D76AF.65ECADC1@navix.net> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:56:47 -0700 From: Richard Mazour X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp CC: Kevin Smyth , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices References: <199904210315.WAA20420@billman.kuntrynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 504 I think you are correct about too many beans grown on CRP acres last year. What is sustainable about plowing established grass on Highly Erodeable Land .Sounds as though the market dropped since I talked to Roberts Seed ( a local buyer ). I got a flyer today from American Health stating Vinton 81 Soybean Contracts , None available this year due to excess and carryover throughout USA. They are writing contracts for SOY M 10 first come , first served. So lets all eat lots of Tofu, I like it! Rich Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > I don't know of anyone in the eastern cornbelt that can get close to > $16/bushel for organic soybeans right now and the word on the street is > they don't have a contract in hand for this years crop nor can they get > one. In fact I know quite a few farmers that are still setting on last > years beans. Is that happening elsewhere? It almost looks like CRP might > be the downfall of the organic grain market. Is it possible? > Best wishes, > Greg > > ---------- > > From: Richard Mazour > > To: Kevin Smyth > > Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > > Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices > > Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 12:09 AM > > > > Cretified Organic? Maybe $16 spot now. My yield in south central Nebraska > > around 30 dryland.I'm not planting them this year. Know how to control > been > > leaf beattle ? They have found my paradise. Rich > > > > Kevin Smyth wrote: > > > > > Friends - anybody know what a bushel of certified Vinton soybeans > fetches > > > nowadays? And what the average per-acre yield is? > > > > > > Thanks much, > > > Kevin Smyth > > > ab210@seorf.ohiou.edu > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 01:59:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22644 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA15597 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:31:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.teleport.com (mail1.teleport.com [192.108.254.26]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA15418 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:31:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6775 invoked from network); 21 Apr 1999 05:31:25 -0000 Received: from dyn0106.gdsl.du.teleport.com (HELO mlm1) (216.26.47.107) by mail1.teleport.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 1999 05:31:25 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990420220048.009ece40@mail.teleport.com> X-Sender: mlm1@mail.teleport.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:01:49 -0700 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Miles L. Merwin" Subject: Corrected link for Agroforestry Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_46578652==_.ALT" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 505 --=====================_46578652==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The correct link for information on the 6th North American Agroforestry Conference (June 12-16, 1999, Hot Springs, AR) is: www.missouri.edu/~afta/makeplansNAAC.htm You can also access conference information via the Association for Temperate Agroforestry home page at: www.missouri.edu/~afta/ My apologies for the error in the previous posting. Miles Merwin Association for Temperate Agroforestry Inc. --=====================_46578652==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" The correct link for information on the 6th North American Agroforestry Conference (June 12-16, 1999, Hot Springs, AR) is:

    www.missouri.edu/~afta/makeplansNAAC.htm

    You can also access conference information via the Association for Temperate Agroforestry home page at:

    www.missouri.edu/~afta/

    My apologies for the error in the previous posting.

    Miles Merwin
    Association for Temperate Agroforestry Inc. --=====================_46578652==_.ALT-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 11:04:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28936 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16968 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:14:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16963 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24410 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-5-21.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.21]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA06206; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:52:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199904211452.JAA06206@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Bob MacGregor" Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:10:37 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 506 A lot of CRP ground is coming out of the ten year program. $20 beans compared to less than $6 beans was too big of an incentive. CRP ground that had no fertilizer or pesticides on it in the last three years is eligible for organic production upon exiting the Conservation Reserve Program. (That would be almost all of the CRP ground.) I know of a lot of CRP ground that is now in organic production. Greg ---------- > From: Bob MacGregor > To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com > Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices > Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 8:30 AM > > Greg, > You lost me on that one. What is the special connection between CRP and organic grains/oilseeds markets? > BOB > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 11:04:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28940 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA08467 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:59:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08457 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDGN7P>; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:02:59 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'hartej@fas.usda.gov'" Subject: FW: Job Title: Natural Resources Strategic Planning and Policy Ad visor Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:02:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 507 Contact for this position: Program Officer: Jennifer Harte Division: FAS/ICD/DRD/IIP E-mail address: hartej@fas.usda.gov Telephone: (202)690-2937 FAX: (202)690-1957 Mailing Address: USDA/FAS/ICD/DRD/IIP Stop 1095, RM 3237, South Bldg. 1400 Independence Ave, SW Washington, DC 20250-1095 -----Original Message----- From: owner-intl-lst@maat.reeusda.gov [mailto:owner-intl-lst@maat.reeusda.gov] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 8:32 AM Subject: ****************************************************************** International Programs Electronic Update Job Announcement April 21, 1999 #101 ****************************************************************** Sender: owner-intl-lst@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Job Title: Natural Resources Strategic Planning and Policy Advisor Grade: GS-110-14 Schedule B (not-to-exceed 5 years) Approximate Start Date: June 1, 1999 CATEGORY 1: The individual will be assigned to the Inter-American and International Programs Branch of the Development Resources Division, ICD and will assist the U.S. Agency for International Development Global Bureau (G) and the Latin American and Caribbean (LAC) Bureau, specifically the Regional Sustainable Development, Broad-Based Economic Growth Team that responds to the need in LAC countries for strengthened markets and increased market access for small-scale producers and entrepreneurs. The Advisor serves as a recognized land policy expert for USAID programs and as a major link to relevant USDA resources and information. The Natural Resources Strategic Planning and Policy Advisor provides strategic planning and policy leadership as a senior advisor on sustainable economic growth and natural resources management strategy. S/he will divide his/her time between duties for LAC Bureau and the G Bureau, drawing on activities of both bureaus to identify and launch state-of-the-art strategic partnerships, new program directions, and cutting-edge program implementation mechanisms for a wide range of countries where USAID operates. The scope of responsibility falls under two major categories: (1) a high-level leader in policy, strategic planning, and program development to LAC USAID missions, and (2) a senior manager for the G Bureau's worldwide Rural and Agricultural Incomes with a Sustainable Environment (RAISE) Project. In sum, the Advisor will provide leadership in developing and managing USAID's long-range RAISE project strategy and short-term operational plans, while at the same time providing on-site natural resources-related support to Global Bureau Centers, Regional Bureaus and Missions. The position is based in Washington, DC, but requires LAC regional and Global travel. To apply, send 1) a cover letter that directly addresses the 5 Required Skills listed below, and 2) a current resume to the Program Officer as soon as possible. Required Skills 1. An advanced degree in an appropriate area of economics, natural resources, forestry or environment. 2. Recognized expertise in natural resources and policy or closely related specialities, with at lease five years of experience in policy analysis, economic development, project management, and technical advising in areas such as agribusiness, tourism, forestry or natural resource management. 3. Comprehensive skills in leading activities involving a wide range of persons in the USG, field missions, the host country public and private sector agencies, and multi-donor and non-governmental entities. Ability to produce high-level finished reports in the areas of natural resources strategic planning and policy (oral and written) to meet client informational needs. Outstanding abilities in negotiation and diplomacy. 4. Strong conceptualization and design skills of a level to provide natural resources planning and policy advise U.S. interest groups, contractors and grantees, USAID Missions, USDA, multi-donors, non-governmental agencies and host country officials, many of which are high level senior professionals. 5. Strong desire to work in International Development and a willingness to travel globally and in the LAC region. Preferred Skills 1. Working level French, Haitian Creole) and/or Spanish is desirable. Program Officer: Jennifer Harte Division: FAS/ICD/DRD/IIP E-mail address: hartej@fas.usda.gov Telephone: (202)690-2937 FAX: (202)690-1957 Mailing Address: USDA/FAS/ICD/DRD/IIP Stop 1095, RM 3237, South Bldg. 1400 Independence Ave, SW Washington, DC 20250-1095 *NOTE* You must be a U.S. citizen to apply for this position. You must possess or be able to obtain a security clearance appropriate for the position. Closing Date May 4, 1999. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 11:53:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00414 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09692 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:57:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09659 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDG3BT>; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:00:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: [agrops] FAO Email Conferences (Listed in Alphabetical Order) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:00:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 508 Rough translation of the message below: "Thinking that you might be interested in the FAO web page describing all of its listservs and e-mail conferences--some may be inactive or terminated." http://www.fao.org/Mailnews/econflis.htm Andy -----Original Message----- From: Emiliano Maletta [mailto:maletta@mail.agro.uba.ar] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 2:43 AM To: lisrural@mail.agro.uba.ar; agrops@ccc.uba.ar Subject: [agrops] FAO Email Conferences (Listed in Alphabetical Order) Colisteros: Pensamos podia interesarles la pagina donde la FAO da el listado de todas sus actuales listas de correo -mailing lists o email conferences- (algunas pueden estar ya inactivas o terminadas). http://www.fao.org/Mailnews/econflis.htm Saludos a todos, Emiliano Maletta To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 12:50:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02470 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12323 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:57:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12293 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iac12.navix.net (iac12.navix.net [207.91.5.12]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26565 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from navix.net (cras45p28.navix.net [206.158.194.158]) by iac12.navix.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24557; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:19:44 -0500 Message-ID: <371E0AB1.878D2C50@navix.net> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:28:17 -0700 From: Richard Mazour X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp CC: Bob MacGregor , sanet Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices References: <199904211452.JAA06206@billman.kuntrynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 509 So what are all these new organic farmers going to do with the HEL soybean ground this year? Rich Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > A lot of CRP ground is coming out of the ten year program. $20 beans > compared to less than $6 beans was too big of an incentive. CRP ground > that had no fertilizer or pesticides on it in the last three years is > eligible for organic production upon exiting the Conservation Reserve > Program. (That would be almost all of the CRP ground.) I know of a lot of > CRP ground that is now in organic production. > Greg > > ---------- > > From: Bob MacGregor > > To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com > > Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices > > Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 8:30 AM > > > > Greg, > > You lost me on that one. What is the special connection between CRP and > organic grains/oilseeds markets? > > BOB > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 14:17:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04817 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA16922 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:04:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA16908 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28066 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA29975; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:04:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199904211704.MAA29975@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:04:02 -0500 Subject: Aerosol transmission/prion particles CC: dkaufman@discover-net.net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 510 Howdy, all-- Thought this ProMED exchange might interest you prion watchers. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. BSE/CJD (NEW VAR.) TRANSMISSION: PRIMATES (02) ********************************************** A ProMED-mail post [1] Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:17:39 -0400 From: Robert W. St. G. Fisher, IV Has any research been done examining aerosol transmission of the prion particles? The resistance of these proteins to proteases and extremes in pH would make them an airborne hazard, IF they are shed from the nasopharyngeal tract or the lungs. Also, the involvement of the tonsils may suggest either a role for the lymphatic system in disseminating infection, or that they were infected "first pass" after exposure to the masticated contaminated meat. Along similar lines, our laboratory had a bit of a fright perhaps two years ago involving CJD (Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. We use human transferrin as a supplement in our human mammary epithelial cell culture, and routinely handle our cells at BL2 (biolevel 2). The company that supplies the transferrin sent out letters indicating that, for one particular lot of transferrin, one of the human donors had developed CJD. We were unable to trace that lot to any transferrin we had received, but it certainly raises the possibility of accidental exposures in labs that use any human/bovine source material. People are usually more cautious when handling human source material than bovine products, and fetal bovine serum and other bovine products are ubiquitous in laboratories...the unfortunate incident that happened in Marburg, Germany back in the 70's comes to mind..... - -- Robert W. Fisher University of North Carolina [2] Date: 19 April, 1999 From: Dr. Thomas Pringle No aerosol work to my knowledge. Nasal route quite viable. Also well known route through external application to eye. Both discussed earlier in connection with kuru handling of corpses, rose garden bone meal, and dust from dry pet foods. The only experimental work has been in rodent eyes. Yes, the whole GI (gastrointestinal) tract gets reamed, at least in primates, with certain cell types excepted, see N Bons article in the 30 Mar 99 Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci (USA. GI prions in nvCJD (new variant Creutzfeld-Jakob Disease) and oral passage of BSE suggest that an oral history to a particular case of sporadic TSE (Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy) might be reliably inferred from prion IHC [?] of the GI tract. This could have serious implications for scrapie transmission to humans. Once the LRS (lymphoreticular system) is involved, it could go all over. If the prions are injected, i.e. for a hemophiliac or in surgery, then I doubt whether the GI would be involved though the LRS might well still be. A large series of sporadic CJD cases needs to be looked at from this light, including the recent Utah deer hunter case. Assuming this means transferrin purified from human blood (not say liver) and represents a large pooled product, the titre should be low. I see no particular risk here to BL2 [biosafety level 2] lab workers or contamination of facilities, though the lot and culture cells should be incinerated if any remains because some epithelial cells can amplify prion agent. There is probably someone incubating CJD in many lots, it is only unusual when a donor happens to be diagnosed. - -- Dr. Thomas Pringle Sperling Foundation Eugene, Oregon US 97405 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 18:46:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10175 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA26160 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:33:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA26119 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hcarter.unl.edu (129.93.224.44) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Wed, 21 Apr 99 16:34:27 CDT Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990421163327.007a32d0@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: csas007@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:33:27 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Heidi Carter Subject: New Agroecology Courses and MSc in Nordic Region Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA26131 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 511 [Note: I am posting this for Dr. Charles Francis, who is on professional development leave in Norway until June 1999. Please direct questions to him at the e-mail he provides below.] New Agroecology Courses and MSc in Nordic Region Do you care about the future? NOVA University and the Agricultural University of Norway announce a new intensive semester course and a MSc curriculum in Agroecology. The one-semester course in Agroecology, Farming and Food Systems that begins in August is divided into two modules which can be taken as part of your current program or as part of the NOVA curriculum for MSc. This program in Agroecology bridges ecology and agriculture, and provides a foundation for developing Ecological Agriculture and Food Systems. We are looking for students who want a systems focus, self-starters who take responsibility for their education, and who seek new challenges and relevance. The course is conducted in English. Why Should You Consider This Program? Unique advantages are available to good students who want to develop systems perspectives, independent thinking, communication skills, and relevance in an action-education program. Here are some reasons to apply: study and work with international faculty and students. direct projects with farmers and others in the food system. learn in small groups on case studies and real-world situations. analyze ecological and conventional food production systems. get individualized advising and course planning with faculty. practice systems thinking to improve agriculture and the food chain. integrate biology, humanities, economics, ecology in food systems. see social issues as a vital part of planning and design of systems. become part of the future of agriculture and rural development. Learning Objectives In the intensive course and MSc Program in Agroecology you will: learn how ecology relates to agriculture. describe the emergent properties of systems. use systems thinking for complex problems. study how food moves from farm to consumer. construct comprehensive farm and food plans. pursue action-oriented projects for learning. learn and practice communication skills. learn how government and regulations work. integrate natural and social science approaches. present your projects or thesis to a concerned audience. Students in this program will be evaluated on their oral and written presentations, on work with farmers and others in the food system, and on their success in group projects. Qualifications and Application Admission to the courses or program requires a BSc degree, equivalent three years at college or university level, or permission of instructors. Previous study in agronomy, horticulture, animal science, ecology, biology, agricultural economics, natural resources, food science, or other agriculture and food systems field prepares you well for this program. Cost for the program is approximately the same as in your home university -- you pay the appropriate tuition at home, and no additional tuition in Norway. Cost of living at the university is approximately US$600/month including dormitory, food, local travel, and incidental expenses. Applications need to be submitted by June 1, 1999 for admission to the course that starts in August 1999. We will advise all students who apply about their acceptance into the program by June 15, 1999. For more information, visit the web site at KVL in Denmark: http://www.agsci.kvl.dk/coem/NOVA/MSC.html You can apply through your home university in Europe through the SOCRATES or NOVA program director, or directly to NLH in Norway as a guest student. In the U.S., Canada, Australia, or New Zealand, apply through any university that has a working agreement with an agricultural university in the Nordic region: Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, or Sweden. The University of Nebraska-Lincoln can provide a gateway for your application, but first visit your international program office to see if it has such agreements. Some of the universities that have these working agreements include: University of Alaska - Fairbanks < fyapply@aurora.alaska.edu> University of British Columbia - Canada University of California - Davis University of Guelph - Ontario University of Idaho - Moscow Universite Laval - Quebec University of Nebraska - Lincoln University of Northern British Columbia Purdue University - W. Lafayette Washington State University - Pullman University of Western Sydney - Hawkesbury Information on applying through the University of Nebraska-Lincoln can be obtained at the UNL International Affairs web site, http://www.iaffairs.unl.edu/. The contact person in that office is Christa Joy, Study Abroad Coordinator, phone: (402) 472-5358, fax: (402) 472-5383, cjoy@unlinfo.unl.edu. Direct inquiries can be sent to: Geir Lieblein or Charles Francis, Agricultural University of Norway Charles A. Francis Ecological Agriculture Program Dept. Horticulture & Crop Sciences, NLH PO Box 5022 N-1432 Norway tel. +47 64 94 79 09 fax +47 64 94 78 02 e-mail _______________________________________________________________ Heidi Carter Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems University of Nebraska 219 Keim Hall Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 p: 402-472-0917 f: 402-472-4104 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 22:14:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA13561 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA03303 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:33:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from big.seorf.ohiou.edu (ab210@big.seorf.ohiou.edu [132.235.1.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA03277 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from ab210@localhost) by big.seorf.ohiou.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA25655 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:33:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Smyth Message-Id: <199904220133.VAA25655@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: greenhouse aphids To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:33:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 512 I haave aphids on chard, which hAs been growing all winter in a permanent bed in my greenhouse. This greenhouse also contains lots of flats of little baby plants. Should I be concerned that the aphids will cause problems by spreading to these? What should I do to avoid a problem? Thanks To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 22:15:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA13582 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA28429 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:28:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA28335 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA07755 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-22.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.166]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA00803; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:05:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199904220205.VAA00803@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Bob MacGregor" Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:55:42 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 513 At current bids for conventional beans, I would think organic beans are still a favorable proposition. It doesn't take much math to figure out that $5 conventional beans aren't going to pay the bills. I'd take organic beans in a heartbeat if I was going to sell grain. The problem I see with organic bean production is not only the tillage on highly erodable ground (and yes I've got several friends who have been organic for some time that farm non highly erodable ground). The biggest problem I see is what does a person grow in the rotation? Organic beans are still marketable (at a lower price than in their "glory" days). Its the corn, hay, and wheat that are a problem. What is a good rotation that all the crops can be sold as organic? I hate to say I have always been a pessimist. I came about $10/cwt closer than any of the brain factory experts on the hog market. I kept telling the milk farmers they were long overdue for a correction. And I think if we go check the archives, just last year I was asking how long before we see oversupply in Organic production. I think all of US agriculture, including the organic industry, is very capable of overproduction and thus severely lower prices. And don't get the impression that I am trying to say I am good at predicting prices. I just have come to the realisation that we have too many factors against us. We don't have competitive markets anymore. Combine that with an Asian economy problem and slight oversupply in the US and the conditions are ripe for disasters of commodity producers. What all of this should mean is that we have to get a lot more serious in our efforts for local food systems. I would also think that in the long term the most sustainable approach for the highly erodable acres would be managed grazing for organic milk, meat, eggs, or fiber and an occasional row crop if desired. But I'm not sure the organic industry is even convinced that managed grazing is the most sensible approach to livestock production. Do I dare say that raising corn and soybeans versus managed pasture is not a very sensible approach even if it is organic? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com ---------- > From: Bob MacGregor > To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com > Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices > Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 1:25 PM > > Thanks, Greg. > When CRP started, I was a grad student in resource econ. At the time, I promoted either requiring perennial cover -- preferably trees -- on CRP lands or purchase of cultivation rights by the government. Hindsight is always 20/20, I guess! If this land was too fragile to plow in 1985, it is too fragile to plow now; as ever, shortsighted government policy puts us back where we were a decade or more ago... > If organic prices are down from oversupply, does this imply these lands will be back in conventional ag. soon? After all, the best way to stimulate more $$ from the feds not to grow crops is to start wholesale plowing of these highly-erodable parcels -- and get the biggest net returns expected from current markets (unless organic yields are turning out competitive on these lands.....?). > Damn, I hate to see all this happen! > Thanks, > BOB > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 21 22:21:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA13733 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA28292 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:27:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA28177 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA07752 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-22.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.166]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA00809; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:05:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199904220205.VAA00809@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Richard Mazour" Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:02:12 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 514 I suspect a lot of the newby organic farmers will bail this year and be at least three years away from being organic farmers again. But, it might be like any other industry. We might still see an increase this year as more new people are still making decisions based on talking to people that sold $20+ beans. Anybody have predictions on organic bean acres this year and harvest price? Rich, Do you raise organic beans? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, Indiana visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com ---------- > From: Richard Mazour > To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp > Cc: Bob MacGregor ; sanet > Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices > Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 12:28 PM > > So what are all these new organic farmers going to do with the HEL soybean > ground this year? Rich > > Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > > > A lot of CRP ground is coming out of the ten year program. $20 beans > > compared to less than $6 beans was too big of an incentive. CRP ground > > that had no fertilizer or pesticides on it in the last three years is > > eligible for organic production upon exiting the Conservation Reserve > > Program. (That would be almost all of the CRP ground.) I know of a lot of > > CRP ground that is now in organic production. > > Greg > > > > ---------- > > > From: Bob MacGregor > > > To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com > > > Subject: Re: Vinton Soybean prices > > > Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 8:30 AM > > > > > > Greg, > > > You lost me on that one. What is the special connection between CRP and > > organic grains/oilseeds markets? > > > BOB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 09:48:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA04990 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 09:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA13899 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:47:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA13846 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDGWTW>; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:50:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Good Food For All Festival (rescheduled) -- DC area Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:50:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 515 -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 6:24 AM To: sanet-mg-approval@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: BOUNCE sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu: Non-member submission from ["Kirsten Saylor" ] >From MD_Mail@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 06:23:27 1999 Received: from hotmail.com (f71.hotmail.com [207.82.250.157]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA15189 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31903 invoked by uid 0); 22 Apr 1999 10:26:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19990422102625.31902.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Kirsten Saylor" To: kir139@yahoo.com Cc: dcfoodgroup@egroups.com Subject: Update on Good Food For All Festival Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 03:26:24 PDT Dear Folks, Perhaps you have already heard... The celebration of fifty years of NATO gave us short notice that the DC public schools would be closed to all this coming weekend. That means that we have had to reschedule the "Good Food For All" Festival for May 8, 1999, same bat place, same bat time (10am - 5pm at Eastern High School, Washington, DC) Please forward your questions to goodfood4@aol.com or call 202/234-0591 Kirsten Saylor _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 11:29:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12915 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA27571 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:10:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay.interim.iamworld.net (relay.interim.iamworld.net [204.91.241.82]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27552 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:10:06 -0400 (EDT) From: hawiaa@access.digex.net Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust3.tnt1.tco2.da.uu.net [153.34.240.3]) by relay.interim.iamworld.net (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA152158 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.16.19990422100807.2cf717e8@pop.iamdigex.net> X-Sender: 10005843@pop.iamdigex.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (16) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:08:07 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Agriculture Policy Project-Press Release Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 516 Immediate Release Contact: Kate Clancy, Wallace Institute Agriculture Policy Project (301) 441-8777 RETAINING FARMS AND FARMLAND TOPS PROJECTS INITIAL LISTS OF GOALS GREENBELT, MD (Tuesday, April 20, 1999) -- Local working groups participating in a nationwide agriculture policy project have listed their top agricultural concerns as the loss of farms and farmland, and the need for increased marketing opportunities. The Agriculture Policy Project of the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture is a grassroots effort to develop innovative, on-the-ground food and agriculture policies that will benefit American farmers and the constituencies they serve. The first phase of the project, now in progress, consists of local farm policy roundtables in 12 communities around the country (see end of release for list and local contacts). Their goal is to bring together farmers, local officials, business leaders, and others to identify critical food and agriculture-related challenges in their communities, and to develop and implement workable solutions. Eight of the 12 roundtables have completed their first round of workshops. This is a great opportunity to influence national farm policies from the ground- up, said Project Director Kate Clancy. Its never been done on this scale before, and were very excited by the prospects, and by the progress weve made so far. The needs for policy change from all 12 local roundtables, several regional meetings, and a national meeting will be the starting point for the development of new local and national policy recommendations. These will be presented to the Administration and Congress. At the same time, the Agriculture Policy Project will fund local projects to implement the recommendations of the roundtables. The local roundtables represent many of the countrys major cropping and production systems, as well as the other components of the food system: for example, corn and soybean growing in Indiana; beef production in Nebraska, Texas, and Colorado; and fruit and vegetable growing in California and southeastern Massachusetts. To maintain the economic viability of farmed land in southeastern Massachusetts, we must support, develop, and implement policies based on local needs and decisions, said Rep. James P. McGovern (D-MA). The Wallace Institute Agriculture Policy Project has provided the opportunity for local people to plan a course of action to solve their own problems. In addition to farmland preservation and marketing opportunities, other policy issues under discussion include: Effects of agriculture on air quality Reconnecting farming to communities Agricultural diversification New farmers Inner city food access Watershed impacts Grassroots planning on farm issues and farmland conservation can send a powerful message to legislators at all levels, said Tim Warman, vice president for programs at American Farmland Trust, a non-profit dedicated to protecting farmland. The Agriculture Policy Project has initiated the important process of mobilizing key individuals to envision the future of farming in their communities, to identify challenges to that future, and to start the search for solutions. LOCAL FARM POLICY ROUNDTABLES Here are the locations and contacts for the eight local farm policy roundtables which have completed their first round of workshops. COLORADO: C.J. Mucklow, Routt County Extension; (970) 879-0825; e-mail cjmucklow@yampa.com IDAHO: John Pitney, (208) 368-0019 INDIANA: Dave Swaim, (765) 245-2573; e-mail dswaim@tctc.com MASSACHUSETTS: Irene Winkler, RC&D, USDA-NRCS, (508) 295-1317 ext. 130; e-mail iwinkler@ma.nrcs.usda.gov MICHIGAN: Don Hamilton, (616) 228-7545 NEBRASKA: Terry Gompert, Knox County Extension, (402) 288-4224; e-mail tgompert1@unl.edu NORTH CAROLINA: Gary Gumz, Mountain Partners in Agriculture, (828) 649- 9452; e-mail ggumz@madison.main.nc.us TEXAS: Lydia Villanueva, Promised Land Network, (806) 364-4445 The Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research and education organization established in 1983 to encourage and facilitate the adoption of low-cost, resource-conserving, and environmentally sound farming systems. The Wallace Institute Agriculture Policy Project is a five-year project involving local, regional, and national participants in the development of long-term policies for sustainable food and agriculture systems. * * * To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 11:52:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14062 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09684 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:31:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09587 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA07180 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phcglen (12.2.59.20) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 22 Apr 99 09:32:12 CDT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990422142344.006acd44@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:23:44 -0600 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: new amaranth production manual Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 517 The University of Nebraska has published a new production and marketing manual for amaranth. "Amaranth Production Manual for the Central United States: a guide to growing and marketing," is available for $6 (to cover costs) from: High Plains Ag Lab 3257 Rd. 109 Sidney, NE 69162 USA phone: 308-254-3918 Make checks out to the University of Nebraska. Or, just reply to this e-mail for further information. This message is for informational purposes only and is not meant to solicit sales. Jane Sooby University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer High Plains Ag Lab 3257 Rd. 109 Sidney, NE 69162 308-254-3918 308-254-2402 (FAX) 308-254-0725 (HOME) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 12:05:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14661 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA20767 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:52:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20751 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.42] (gl-ppp22.hevanet.com [204.119.60.42]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA08797; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904221452.HAA08797@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 07:54:27 -0700 Subject: FW: Human Genome Project Aids Soybean Genome Mapping From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 518 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Human Genome Project Aids Soybean Genome Mapping Date: Thu, Apr 22, 1999, 6:54 AM STORY LEAD: Human Genome Project Aids Soybean Genome Mapping ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov April 22, 1999 ----------- What's the difference between a soybean and a person? Besides the obvious, soybean plants have three fewer pairs of chromosomes--and about 1.7 billion fewer pieces of DNA. Still, plant geneticist Perry B. Cregan borrows biotech tools from the human genome project to map soybean genes. Cregan is with USDA's Agricultural Research Service in Beltsville, Md. The United Soybean Board has awarded more than a million dollars in grants to support soybean gene mapping by Cregan and other scientists around the country. Finding soybean genes to enhance yields and pest resistance could eventually lead to raising U.S. yields by several hundred million bushels a year. Recently, Cregan found map markers near the first two of the four genes he thinks give the plant resistance to cyst nematodes. These microscopic roundworms rob farmers to the tune of 220 million bushels a year. He and University of Minnesota colleagues are seeking markers for the other two resistance genes. One of the biotech tools from the human genome project is called "simple sequence repeats." Cregan and Nebraska colleagues are using it to search for yield-boosting genes in a wild ancestor of soybeans. With simple sequence repeats or SSRs, the scientists can draw maps that allow them to systematically search for useful genes in the genome one section at a time. With SSRs, the scientists have developed more than 300 lines of soybeans in which one-eighth of the original genome has been replaced by wild DNA fragments. These lines are fertile breeding ground for finding yield-boosting genes. ---------- Scientific contact: Perry B. Cregan, ARS Soybean and Alfalfa Research Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-6070, fax (301) 504-5728, pcregan@nal.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 12:10:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14832 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00280 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:08:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA00262 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990422150911.6044.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:09:11 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:09:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: am i eating frankenfood? To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 519 > Hello Saneteers, > > I've a question and a comment. First the question. > > Are Sweet Grape Tomatoes from a genetic engineering > process? My husband made a salad this week with grape > tomatoes that he bought at Fresh Fields here in Philly. > They're the size and shape of grapes only they're > tomatoes > (smaller than the cherry tomato). > > The label from the container says "grown and distributed > by > AG-MART Produce, Inc, Plant City, FL". Does anyone out > there know if the grape tomato came from a plant breeding > program or a genetic engineering program? > > And my comment is relative to Misha's response to being > called a girl. Thank you Misha for responding. When I > read the earlier post where the "girls" was used, it > really > made me fume. But I did not comment because the only > words > that came to mind were quite harsh. Now the anger has > transmuted to more of a sadness. > > The sadness comes from thinking back over the years of > being a woman in agriculture--to the many times when I > have > felt an outsider. > > SANET is mostly devoid of such impolite behaviors. Words > that bring on the feeling of subjugation can not be good > words. > > I hope that the SANET culture will not condone the use of > diminutives to minimize one another. > > Kate > === > ------------------ > Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. > Vice President > AUS Consultants, Inc. > 155 Gaither Drive > Moorestown, NJ 08057 > 609-234-9200 > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > === ------------------ Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 609-234-9200 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 12:40:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16221 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12818 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:34:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12804 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08558 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm9-6.nidlink.com [216.18.141.61]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA15079; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990422153924.009bcf48@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:39:24 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Biodiversity Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 520 The latest issue of Science (April 9, 1999, Vol. 284) has a couple of astounding articles. "Heeding the Warning in Biodivrsity's basic Law" summarizes a technical report also in the issue, and ends by pointing out that the latest data/models suggest that if human activity continues to dominate nature on 95% of the terrestial landscape, the new "steady state" of species will contain about 5% of today's species. Based on this prediction, we are just rounding first base in our collective longer-run impact on biodiversity. Great thought to begin the day with. The "Science Compass" piece is also good -- it revisits Hardin's "Tradegy of the Commons" and makes the case for institutional diversity in dealing with sustainability challenges involving common property resources. Interesting perspectives offered on the failure of western solutions in Southeast Asian irrigated farming regions. It misses (at least does not discuss) two major changes governing the impact of people on the planet and steps to promote sustainability -- the volume of trade/movement of capital, resources, goods and the evolution of transnational corporations that are more powerful than most national governments and certainly dance to the beat of a different drummer when it comes to impacts on the commons and who/what/how controls their behavior. The article points out that people, communities, governments often find ways to solve common property problems that meet their needs and work sustainably. But in perhaps 20 years starting in the early 1990s, the corporate genome, as it were, will go through its own evolutionary process, with the number of "species" shrinking at least 95% and the size/power of companies going up several-fold. This profound change will undoubtedly trigger equally major changes in the behavior and impacts of corporations; these must be factored in by ecologists, biologicts, politicians, as they look ahead. It appears we are heading for a period when there is a fundamental mismatch between what institutions can accomplish -- public and private -- and the actions and profit needs of transnationals. Perhaps GMO issues resonant so deeply with the public in Great Britain because most people no longer believe that government or public institutions can stand up to corporations/special interests when scientific uncertainty and messy, complex questions get in the way of new (or existing) markets and profits. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 15:13:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA23864 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA18638 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:22:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18522 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA12053 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phcglen (12.2.59.18) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 22 Apr 99 13:23:10 CDT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990422181436.00683b24@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:14:36 -0600 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: From Land to Mouth--seeking book Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 521 Hello, all-- Read an interview by Nancy Matheson of a book entitled *From Land to Mouth: Understanding the Food System*, by Brewster Kneen, 2nd edition, NC Press Limited (Toronto), 1993. According to Amazon.com it is out of print. Does anyone know where I could obtain a copy? Thanks for any leads in advance, Jane Sooby University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer High Plains Ag Lab 3257 Rd. 109 Sidney, NE 69162 308-254-3918 308-254-2402 (FAX) 308-254-0725 (HOME) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 18:33:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA03688 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA14851 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:35:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14782 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA16603 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA03921 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:35:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199904222135.QAA03921@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:35:02 -0500 Subject: From Land to Mouth X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 522 Howdy, all-- Jane Sooby asked how to get her hands on a copy of /From Land to Mouth/, given it's out of print. Two suggestions: Contact Powell's in Portland; I think the URL is http://www.powells.com Or contact Brewster himself: ramshorn@jetstream.net While you're at it, subscribe to /The Ram's Horn/ newsletter. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, folks, this is a democracy, and in a democracy the cynics don't decide who's elected to office unless you let them--unless they're the only ones who vote. We decide. --U.S. Rep. Tammy Baldwin, WI To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 19:44:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06852 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01055 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:43:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00996 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jal1.jal1.telmex.net.mx ([148.233.240.104]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:42:02 -0500 Message-ID: <199904221741060990.00184F21@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <19990422150911.6044.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> References: <19990422150911.6044.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.11 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:41:06 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Kate Smith" Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: am i eating frankenfood? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA01010 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 523 On 22/04/99 at 8:09 AM Kate Smith wrote: > Are Sweet Grape Tomatoes from a genetic engineering >> process? ... They're the size and shape of grapes only they're >> tomatoes (smaller than the cherry tomato. Sounds like what you've got are plum tomatoes, which are an old, open pollinated variety (i.e. not an GMO). other theme > When I read the earlier post where the "girls" was used, it >> really made me fume. Fuming can be detrimental to your health. >... the only words that came to mind were quite harsh. Now the anger has transmuted to more of a sadness. What a trip! >> > ... I have felt an outsider. Not intentional on my part. >> ... Words that bring on the feeling of subjugation can not be good >> words. Read Freud. The word is not the probleem. Be happy! (Do I dare add "Girls")? Best not! Not today. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 22/04/99 at 8:09 AM Kate Smith wrote: >> Hello Saneteers, >> >> I've a question and a comment. First the question. >> >> Are Sweet Grape Tomatoes from a genetic engineering >> process? My husband made a salad this week with grape >> tomatoes that he bought at Fresh Fields here in Philly. >> They're the size and shape of grapes only they're >> tomatoes >> (smaller than the cherry tomato). >> >> The label from the container says "grown and distributed >> by >> AG-MART Produce, Inc, Plant City, FL". Does anyone out >> there know if the grape tomato came from a plant breeding >> program or a genetic engineering program? >> >> And my comment is relative to Misha's response to being >> called a girl. Thank you Misha for responding. When I >> read the earlier post where the "girls" was used, it >> really >> made me fume. But I did not comment because the only >> words >> that came to mind were quite harsh. Now the anger has >> transmuted to more of a sadness. >> >> The sadness comes from thinking back over the years of >> being a woman in agriculture--to the many times when I >> have >> felt an outsider. >> >> SANET is mostly devoid of such impolite behaviors. Words >> that bring on the feeling of subjugation can not be good >> words. >> >> I hope that the SANET culture will not condone the use of >> diminutives to minimize one another. >> >> Kate >> === >> ------------------ >> Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. >> Vice President >> AUS Consultants, Inc. >> 155 Gaither Drive >> Moorestown, NJ 08057 >> 609-234-9200 >> _________________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> > >=== >------------------ >Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. >Vice President >AUS Consultants, Inc. >155 Gaither Drive >Moorestown, NJ 08057 >609-234-9200 >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds, Director Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (Center for Community and Rural Development, Non-profit Association) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 Mexico U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412-6308 (direct - Cd. Guzman, Jalisco) Tel. & Fax: 011 528 922-2424 (direct - Reynosa, Tamaulipas) e-mail: cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx, dmhinds@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 22 21:16:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA10598 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA29933 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:07:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA29927 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp165.epix.net [209.74.60.165]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id UAA21513; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <371FBBA8.3CD5CCC1@epix.net> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:15:36 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kate Smith CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: am i eating frankenfood? References: <19990422150911.6044.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 524 Kate Smith wrote: > > Hello Saneteers, > > > > I've a question and a comment. First the question. > > > > Are Sweet Grape Tomatoes from a genetic engineering > > process? My husband made a salad this week with grape > > tomatoes that he bought at Fresh Fields here in Philly. > > They're the size and shape of grapes only they're > > tomatoes > > (smaller than the cherry tomato). > > Kate, The grape tomatoes you ate are not GE. They originated in China and are qiuckly becoming customer favorites because of there sweetness. They are also open pollenated (at least the varieties I grow). Steve Groff -- "New Generation Cropping Systems": the cutting edge of sustainable agriculture http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Steve Groff Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 00:59:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA18816 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA13245 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA13193 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA21963 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (root@rac4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.144]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id AAA05722 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac4.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id AAA00194 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id AAA00189 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:03:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac4.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:03:50 -0400 (EDT) From: joel b gruver To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: lignin content of roots Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 525 Hello to all... I am modeling the C inputs to several replicated cropping systems and comparing this model with C retained in the respective soil systems as different C fractions. The soils in the more complex systems appear to be accumulating more C in the top 7.5 cm... In contrast, the total C inputs to the soil of these more complex systems appears to less than that of some of less complex systems such as continuous corn systems... the more complex systems include some chisel tillage while the continuous corn systems with and without a rye cover crop are no-till.. The more complex systems are the only ones containing wheat in the rotation. I think this inclusion of wheat may have a role in the greater C accumulation in the 0-7.5 cm layer... I am wondering if anyone can refer me to literature describing any of the following: Root:shoot ratios for cover crops (specifically cereal rye and hairy vetch) Lignin content of crop roots (Corn, wheat, soybeans... ) Differences in root:shoot ratios for the same crop under different management systems Amount of litter (o horizon) dry matter that can accumulate in a no-till corn system ***************************************************** Food for thought Lignin contained in the above ground biomass of corn, soybeans and wheat from Principles and Applications of Soil Microbiology by Sylvia et al., 1998 corn = 5.6% lignin, soybean = 11.9 % lignin and wheat = 14.1 % lignin At the agronomy meetings this fall, I heard someone suggest (I think it was Dr. E. Paul) that the simplest way to increase SOM levels would be to breed grain corn varieties with a greater lignin content in their stover ***************************************************** Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research U of MD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 02:10:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA20972 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA28625 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:12:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pantano.theriver.com (pantano.theriver.com [205.216.137.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA28458 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cfish.theriver.com (a8.pm3-28.theriver.com [206.102.195.24]) by pantano.theriver.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA12304 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:12:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <009001be8d47$2f681fa0$18c366ce@cfish.theriver.com> From: "C. Fish/D. Pressel" To: Subject: Part 2 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:07:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE8D0C.822F1440" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 526 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE8D0C.822F1440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * On March 21 an official scientific advisory panel in the EU = recommended a continuation of Europe's ban on Monsanto's controversial recombinant = Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH or rBST), a GE hormone injected into 5% of dairy = cows in the US to force them to give more milk. The panel warned that the = milk from cows injected with rBGH contains up to 4-5 times the levels of a potent chemical hormone messenger called IGF-1, which has been linked to increased human risks for prostate, breast, and colon cancer. The US is = the only country in the industrialized world to have approved rBGH, despite widespread consumer opposition and continuing charges of conflict of interest in the FDA. For information on the Center for Food Safety legal petition to have rBGH banned in the US see On a related = note award-winning US TV journalists Steve Wilson and Jane Akre's lawsuit against Fox TV (who fired them last year after they produced a = hard-hitting series on rBGH for Fox TV) begins on May 10 in Tampa, Florida. See * The Wisconsin State Journal revealed on March 24 that a = Wisconsin-based organic food manufacturer, Prima Terra, had located the source of = "genetic pollution" in a shipment of 80.000 bags of organic corn chips which were destroyed in Holland earlier this year after "testing positive" for = traces of GE corn. According to Prima Terra, one of its suppliers, an organic = corn farmer in Texas, was the victim of genetic drift, after GE corn pollen = blew onto the farm's certified organic corn fields from a neighboring farm. Genetically altered corn pollen can travel for miles in the wind and integrate its DNA into the genome of conventional plants. *According to 3/30 posting on the internet by ASEED, the EU youth = activist network, Hungarian authorities have at least temporarily denied = permission for Monsanto, AgrEvo, and Novartis to conduct field tests of GE corn and sugar beets. Anti-GE public awareness and activism are slowly but = steadily increasing in Hungary and Eastern Europe. For further information = contact ASEED * The English folk band "Seize The Day" have released a new song on the internet called "Food 'n' Health 'n' Hope," a scathing satirical attack = on Monsanto. To hear the song, copy it, and distribute it, copyright free, tune your internet browser to . * In late-March Amazon tribal leaders, wearing shell necklaces and bird feathers, carried out a protest at the US Patent Office in Washington, D.C., demanding a revocation of a "bio-pirated" patent granted to US scientists for a traditional medicine and hallucinogenic plant called Ayahuasca. According to a March 31 article in the St. Louis = Post-Dispatch by Bill Lambrecht, universities and biotech companies such as Monsanto = are finding it harder and harder to "bioprospect" in indigenous areas due to increasing opposition by Native groups. * In a major, perhaps precedent-setting victory for the anti-GE = movement in Britain, UK prosecutors on March 29 dropped all charges against two defendants, Jacklyn Sheedy and Liz Snook, who were on trial for = destroying a test plot of AgrEvo's GE corn last year. The AgrEvo test site = threatened to contaminate a field of organic corn planted nearby. According to informed sources, the prosecution and the British government feared that = if the two campaigners were put on trial they would likely have been found innocent by the jury, thereby setting a "dangerous" precedent for those contemplating future direct action. Sheedy and Snook faced up to ten = years in prison for "conspiracy to commit criminal damage." And in a related development, an Irish judge on April 1 granted probation to six of seven activists accused of destroying a test plot of Monsanto's GE sugar beets last June in County Wexford. Meanwhile in early April a 1700 square = meter test plot of GE rapeseed was sprayed with pesticides and destroyed by activists in Giessen, Germany. This was the fourth time since 1997 that this particular test site had been destroyed. * Portugal's Burger King restaurants announced a ban on GE foods on = April 7. A number of major UK fast-food chains (McDonald's, Burger King, and Kentucky Fried Chicken) made similar announcements in February. Informed sources have told CFS News that even McDonald's USA has the jitters over GE--with McD's franchise owners in Wisconsin and Minnesota telling = potato processors and their growers not to deliver Monsanto's Bt potatoes to = them. Farmers also report that Monsanto's miracle Bt potatoes aren't doing = that well in the fields, with Minnesota potato growers complaining the mutant = Bt spuds won't germinate until the temperature hits 50 degrees Fahrenheit, = as opposed to 40 degrees for conventional varieties. * On April 8 biotech and anti-organic propagandist Dennis Avery of the Hudson Institute (see Food Bytes #16) got a pie in the face as he was delivering a lecture on biotechnology at Grinnell College in Iowa. According to a press release, the Central Iowa Anarchist (CIA) cell of = the Biotic Baking Brigade carried out "Operation Avery's Savory" as a = "response to Avery's shameless and flagrant support of biotechnology and = industrial factory farming." A week earlier in Somerset, England, Novartis PR man Steve Smith was hit by a custard pie at a meeting on GE foods. As Smith rushed to the toilet to gain his composure, he was creamed by yet = another custard pie. * The US mass media are finally starting to wake up to the controversy = over genetically engineered foods and crops. Beginning last Oct. 25, when the New York Times Sunday Magazine ran a major feature story, "Playing God = in the Garden," critical of Monsanto and ag biotech, the American news blackout appears to have lifted--at least partially. In recent months objective, and even a few hard-hitting investigative articles, have = started to appear in the NYT; the Washington Post (a series by Rick Weiss); the = St. Louis Post-Dispatch, headquarters for Monsanto (an excellent series of articles by Bill Lambrecht); the Los Angeles Times; Harpers magazine; = the Christian Science Monitor; Penthouse magazine; E magazine; and other magazines and papers. Even national TV networks, especially CNN and ABC News (November 9 and December 15, 1998) have started to begin to address the issue. In addition the progressive media--the Nation, Mother Jones, = the Progressive, the Progressive Populist, Earth Island Journal, = Multinational Monitor, among others--and community radio stations have recently begun = to publish and broadcast articles on the GE controversy. In Canada ag = biotech media coverage has been more widespread than the US, partly as a result = of the major national debate over rBGH. With increased media coverage in = North America there is now a steadily increasing awareness on the part of the general public, as well as a number of hopeful signs that a new = grassroots mass movement--anti-GE, anti-industrial agriculture, pro-organic, pro-sustainable--is starting to develop. * Global Days of Action Against Monsanto and Genetic Engineering April 15-30. For the fourth year in a row we at the Campaign for Food Safety = are serving as an international clearinghouse for the Global Days of Action (GDA). In 1996-98 the GDA have helped to stimulate coordinated global protests and actions, generate significant media coverage, and = strengthen global solidarity and campaign capacity. This year of course nearly = every day has now become a Global Day of Action, at least in places like = Western Europe and India. GDA 1999 will try to place a major focus on the = Monsanto corporation. To spearhead the growing global opposition to Monsanto, genetic engineering, and industrial agriculture, we at CFS--along with = our NGO allies--recently have coordinated a series of US and international conference calls as well as international activist meetings in = Cuernavaca, Mexico and New Delhi, India. So far we know of planned GDA (and Earth = Day Week) activities scheduled for the following countries and local areas: USA: A variety of teach-ins, street theater, and leafletting/petitioning activities are scheduled, especially around the week of Earth Day April = 22. Over 125 natural food stores in 75 cities and towns are participating in = a petition drive in support of the Center for Food Safety lawsuit (filed = May 27, 1998--see Food Bytes #9) to have all GE foods and crops taken off = the market, as well as to head off industry and government attempts to eliminate mandatory labeling requirements for irradiated foods. For CFS petition materials contact our Duluth, Minnesota office at A partial list of other USA GDA/Earth Day actions includes: Seattle, Washington; Austin, Texas; Santa Cruz, California--April 22--contact National Campaign to Label GE Food Boston, Massachusetts April 17-24 contact St. Louis, Missouri Protest at Monsanto's Shareholders Meeting 4/23 and other events contact Burlington, Vermont and Amherst, Mass. contact = Cleveland, Ohio April 22 contact Chicago, Illinois April 17 teach-in San Francisco, California (supermarket actions April 18) contact: Boulder, Colorado Alliance for Democracy activists conference = "Challenging Corporate Control of Food and Agriculture" April 29 contact A partial list of other nations and contacts for GDA 1999 include the following: France--action on April 22 in Paris-- contact UK--actions in 12 cities on April 17 by Genetix Snowball contact additional actions planned as well by other UK groups April 15-30 India--actions planned--contact Japan--actions planned--contact Malaysia--contact Jennifer Mourin Australia--contact Bob Phelps Canada--contact Tony Clarke Please email us other events & activities taking place during GDA April = 15-30. And finally let us resolve to make every day a Global Day of Action = Against Genetic Engineering and Industrial Agriculture. End of CFS News #18 (Campaign for Food Safety News) April 16, 1999 (formerly called Food Bytes) ________________________________________________________________ Ronnie Cummins, Director Campaign for Food Safety/Organic Consumers Association 860 Hwy 61 Little Marais, Minnesota 55614 Telephone: 218-226-4164 Fax: 218-226-4157 email: alliance@mr.net URL: http://www.purefood.org Affiliated with the Center for Food Safety (Washington, D.C.) http://www.icta.org and the Organic Consumers Association http://www.organicconsumers.org To Subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, CFS NEWS (formerly = called Food Bytes), send an email to: majordomo@mr.net with the simple message in the body of the text: subscribe pure-food-action To subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Organic View, send an = email to: organicview@organicconsumers.org with the simple message in the body of the text: subscribe -------------- If you no longer wish to receive information, please send email to: majordomo@mr.net with the command: unsubscribe pure-food-action in the body of the message. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE8D0C.822F1440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    * On March 21 an official scientific advisory panel in the EU=20 recommended a
    continuation of Europe's ban on Monsanto's = controversial=20 recombinant Bovine
    Growth Hormone (rBGH or rBST), a GE hormone = injected into=20 5% of dairy cows
    in the US to force them to give more milk. The panel = warned=20 that the milk
    from cows injected with rBGH contains up to 4-5 times = the=20 levels of a
    potent chemical hormone messenger called IGF-1, which has = been=20 linked to
    increased human risks for prostate, breast, and colon = cancer. The=20 US is the
    only country in the industrialized world to have approved = rBGH,=20 despite
    widespread consumer opposition and continuing charges of = conflict=20 of
    interest in the FDA. For information on the Center for Food Safety = legal
    petition to have rBGH banned in the US see <www.icta.org> On a related=20 note
    award-winning US TV journalists Steve Wilson and Jane Akre's=20 lawsuit
    against Fox TV (who fired them last year after they produced = a=20 hard-hitting
    series on rBGH for Fox TV) begins on May 10 in Tampa, = Florida.=20 See
    <www.foxbghsuit.com>

    * = The=20 Wisconsin State Journal revealed on March 24 that a = Wisconsin-based
    organic=20 food manufacturer, Prima Terra, had located the source of=20 "genetic
    pollution" in a shipment of 80.000 bags of organic = corn=20 chips which were
    destroyed in Holland earlier this year after = "testing=20 positive" for traces
    of GE corn. According to Prima Terra, one = of its=20 suppliers, an organic corn
    farmer in Texas, was the victim of genetic = drift,=20 after GE corn pollen blew
    onto the farm's certified organic corn = fields from=20 a neighboring farm.
    Genetically altered corn pollen can travel for = miles in=20 the wind and
    integrate its DNA into the genome of conventional=20 plants.

    *According to 3/30 posting on the internet by ASEED, the = EU youth=20 activist
    network, Hungarian authorities have at least temporarily = denied=20 permission
    for Monsanto, AgrEvo, and Novartis to conduct field tests = of GE=20 corn and
    sugar beets. Anti-GE public awareness and activism are = slowly but=20 steadily
    increasing in Hungary and Eastern Europe. For further = information=20 contact
    ASEED <aseedeur@antenna.nl>

    * = The=20 English folk band "Seize The Day" have released a new song on=20 the
    internet called "Food 'n' Health 'n' Hope," a scathing=20 satirical attack on
    Monsanto. To hear the song, copy it, and = distribute it,=20 copyright free,
    tune your internet browser to <www.seizetheday.org>.

    *= In=20 late-March Amazon tribal leaders, wearing shell necklaces and = bird
    feathers,=20 carried out a protest at the US Patent Office in Washington,
    D.C., = demanding=20 a revocation of a "bio-pirated" patent granted to = US
    scientists for=20 a traditional medicine and hallucinogenic plant called
    Ayahuasca. = According=20 to a March 31 article in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch
    by Bill = Lambrecht,=20 universities and biotech companies such as Monsanto are
    finding it = harder and=20 harder to "bioprospect" in indigenous areas due = to
    increasing=20 opposition by Native groups.

    *  In a major, perhaps=20 precedent-setting victory for the anti-GE movement
    in Britain, UK = prosecutors=20 on March 29 dropped all charges against two
    defendants, Jacklyn = Sheedy and=20 Liz Snook, who were on trial for destroying
    a test plot of AgrEvo's = GE corn=20 last year. The AgrEvo test site threatened
    to contaminate a field of = organic=20 corn planted nearby. According to
    informed sources, the prosecution = and the=20 British government feared that if
    the two campaigners were put on = trial they=20 would likely have been found
    innocent by the jury, thereby setting a=20 "dangerous" precedent for those
    contemplating future direct = action.=20 Sheedy and Snook faced up to ten years
    in prison for  = "conspiracy=20 to commit criminal damage." And in a related
    development, an = Irish judge=20 on April 1 granted probation to six of seven
    activists accused of = destroying=20 a test plot of Monsanto's GE sugar beets
    last June in County Wexford. = Meanwhile in early April a 1700 square meter
    test plot of GE rapeseed = was=20 sprayed with pesticides and destroyed by
    activists in Giessen, = Germany. =20 This was the fourth time since 1997 that
    this particular test site = had been=20 destroyed.

    * Portugal's Burger King restaurants announced a ban = on GE=20 foods on April
    7. A number of major UK fast-food chains (McDonald's, = Burger=20 King, and
    Kentucky Fried Chicken) made similar announcements in = February.=20 Informed
    sources have told CFS News that even McDonald's USA has the = jitters=20 over
    GE--with McD's franchise owners in Wisconsin and Minnesota = telling=20 potato
    processors and their growers not to deliver Monsanto's Bt = potatoes to=20 them.
    Farmers also report that Monsanto's miracle Bt potatoes aren't = doing=20 that
    well in the fields, with Minnesota potato growers complaining = the mutant=20 Bt
    spuds won't germinate until the temperature hits 50 degrees = Fahrenheit,=20 as
    opposed to 40 degrees for conventional varieties.

    * On = April 8=20 biotech and anti-organic propagandist Dennis Avery of the
    Hudson = Institute=20 (see Food Bytes #16) got a pie in the face as he was
    delivering a = lecture on=20 biotechnology at Grinnell College in Iowa.
    According to a press = release, the=20 Central Iowa Anarchist (CIA) cell of the
    Biotic Baking Brigade = carried out=20 "Operation Avery's Savory" as a "response
    to Avery's = shameless=20 and flagrant support of biotechnology and industrial
    factory = farming." A=20 week earlier in Somerset, England, Novartis PR man
    Steve Smith was = hit by a=20 custard pie at a meeting on GE foods. As Smith
    rushed to the toilet = to gain=20 his composure, he was creamed by yet another
    custard pie.

    * = The US=20 mass media are finally starting to wake up to the controversy=20 over
    genetically engineered foods and crops. Beginning last Oct. 25, = when=20 the
    New York Times Sunday Magazine ran a major feature story, = "Playing=20 God in
    the Garden," critical of Monsanto and ag biotech, the = American=20 news
    blackout appears to have lifted--at least partially. In recent=20 months
    objective, and even a few hard-hitting investigative articles, = have=20 started
    to appear in the NYT; the Washington Post (a series by Rick = Weiss);=20 the St.
    Louis Post-Dispatch, headquarters for Monsanto (an excellent = series=20 of
    articles by Bill Lambrecht); the Los Angeles Times; Harpers = magazine;=20 the
    Christian Science Monitor; Penthouse magazine; E magazine; and=20 other
    magazines and papers. Even national TV networks, especially CNN = and=20 ABC
    News (November 9 and December 15, 1998) have started to begin to=20 address
    the issue. In addition the progressive media--the Nation, = Mother=20 Jones, the
    Progressive, the Progressive Populist, Earth Island = Journal,=20 Multinational
    Monitor, among others--and community radio stations = have=20 recently begun to
    publish and broadcast articles on the GE = controversy. In=20 Canada ag biotech
    media coverage has been more widespread than the = US, partly=20 as a result of
    the major national debate over rBGH. With increased = media=20 coverage in North
    America there is now a steadily increasing = awareness on the=20 part of the
    general public, as well as a number of hopeful signs that = a new=20 grassroots
    mass movement--anti-GE, anti-industrial agriculture,=20 pro-organic,
    pro-sustainable--is starting to develop.

    * Global = Days of=20 Action Against Monsanto and Genetic Engineering April
    15-30. For the = fourth=20 year in a row we at the Campaign for Food Safety are
    serving as an=20 international clearinghouse for the Global Days of = Action
    (GDA).  In=20 1996-98 the GDA have helped to stimulate coordinated global
    protests = and=20 actions, generate significant media coverage, and strengthen
    global=20 solidarity and campaign capacity. This year of course nearly = every
    day has=20 now become a Global Day of Action, at least in places like = Western
    Europe and=20 India. GDA 1999 will try to place a major focus on the = Monsanto
    corporation.=20 To spearhead the growing  global opposition to Monsanto,
    genetic = engineering, and industrial agriculture, we at CFS--along with = our
    NGO=20 allies--recently have coordinated a series of US and = international
    conference=20 calls as well as international activist meetings in = Cuernavaca,
    Mexico and=20 New Delhi, India. So far we know of planned GDA (and Earth Day
    Week)=20 activities  scheduled for the following countries and local=20 areas:

    USA: A variety of teach-ins, street theater, and=20 leafletting/petitioning
    activities are scheduled, especially around = the week=20 of Earth Day April 22.
    Over 125 natural food stores in 75 cities and = towns=20 are participating in a
    petition drive in support of the Center for = Food=20 Safety lawsuit (filed May
    27, 1998--see Food Bytes #9) to have all GE = foods=20 and crops taken off the
    market, as well as to head off industry and=20 government attempts to
    eliminate mandatory labeling requirements for=20 irradiated foods. For CFS
    petition materials contact our Duluth, = Minnesota=20 office at
    <safefood@cp.duluth.mn.us>= A=20 partial list of other USA GDA/Earth Day
    actions = includes:

    Seattle,=20 Washington; Austin, Texas; Santa Cruz, California--April
    22--contact = National=20 Campaign to Label GE Food <craig@craigwinters.com>
    = <www.thecampaign.org>
    Boston= ,=20 Massachusetts April 17-24 contact <jasonab@mediaone.net>
    St. = Louis,=20 Missouri Protest at Monsanto's Shareholders Meeting 4/23 and
    other = events=20 contact <T4shea@aol.com>
    Burlington, = Vermont and=20 Amherst, Mass. contact <briant@earth.goddard.edu>=
    Cleveland,=20 Ohio April 22 contact <es004@cleveland.freenet.edu>
    Chicago,=20 Illinois April 17 teach-in <hpcoop@hpcoop.org>
    San = Francisco,=20 California (supermarket actions April 18) contact:
    <hexterminators@artactivist= .com>
    Boulder,=20 Colorado Alliance for Democracy activists conference=20 "Challenging
    Corporate Control of Food and Agriculture" = April 29=20 contact
    <avkrebs@earthlink.net>
    A=20 partial list of other nations and contacts for GDA 1999 include=20 the
    following:

    France--action on April 22 in Paris-- contact = <ecoropa@magic.fr>
    UK--actions = in 12=20 cities on April 17 by Genetix Snowball contact
    <holly@gn.apc.org>
    additional = actions=20 planned as well by other UK groups April 15-30
    India--actions=20 planned--contact <vshiva@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in>
    Japan--actions=20 planned--contact <mika@mb.kcom.ne.jp>
    Malaysia= --contact=20 Jennifer Mourin <panap@panap.mo.my>
    Australia-= -contact=20 Bob Phelps <afcgenet@peg.apc.org>
    Cana= da--contact=20 Tony Clarke <tclarke@web.net>

    Please = email us=20 other events & activities taking place during GDA April = 15-30.
    And=20 finally let us resolve to make every day a Global Day of Action=20 Against
    Genetic Engineering and Industrial Agriculture.

    End of = CFS=20 News #18 (Campaign for Food Safety News) April 16, 1999
    (formerly = called Food=20 Bytes)
    _______________________________________________________________= _













    Ronnie=20 Cummins, Director
    Campaign for Food Safety/Organic Consumers=20 Association
    860 Hwy 61
    Little Marais, Minnesota = 55614
    Telephone:=20 218-226-4164   Fax: 218-226-4157
    email: alliance@mr.net   &nbs= p;   =20 URL: http://www.purefood.org

    Affil= iated=20 with the Center for Food Safety (Washington, D.C.)
    http://www.icta.org
    and the Organic = Consumers=20 Association
    http://www.organicconsumers.org<= /A>

    To=20 Subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, CFS NEWS (formerly = called
    Food=20 Bytes), send an email to:
    majordomo@mr.net
    with the simple = message=20 in the body of the text:
    subscribe pure-food-action

    To = subscribe to=20 the free electronic newsletter, Organic View, send an email to:
    organicview@organicconsu= mers.org
    with=20 the simple message in the body of the=20 text:
    subscribe


    --------------
    If you no longer wish to = receive=20 information, please send email to:
    majordomo@mr.net   &n= bsp;      =20 with the command:
    unsubscribe pure-food-action
    in the body of the=20 message.
    ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BE8D0C.822F1440-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 02:11:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA21014 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA28441 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:12:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pantano.theriver.com (pantano.theriver.com [205.216.137.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA28275 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cfish.theriver.com (a8.pm3-28.theriver.com [206.102.195.24]) by pantano.theriver.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA12166 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:11:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <008401be8d47$20ac26a0$18c366ce@cfish.theriver.com> From: "C. Fish/D. Pressel" To: Subject: GE World Wide Actions- Part 1 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:07:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BE8D0C.7306C4E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 527 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BE8D0C.7306C4E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CFS News #18 (formerly Food Bytes) April 16, 1999 News & Analysis on Genetic Engineering, Factory Farming, and Organics By: Ronnie Cummins & Ben Lilliston Campaign for Food Safety Affiliated with the Center for Food Safety and the Organic Consumers Association __________________________________________________________________ The Campaign for Food Safety is happy to announce our formal affiliation with the Center for Food Safety in Washington,D.C. Beginning with this issue we are changing the name of Food Bytes to CFS News (Campaign for = Food Safety News). __________________________________________________________________ ISSUE #18: Global Action Intensifies Against Monsanto & the Gene Giants (Information on Global Days of Action April 15-30 at end of this issue.) Quote of the Month: "This is the beginning of the end of trying to force-feed consumers unwanted and unneeded genetically manipulated food." Benedikt Haerlin, Greenpeace International Press Release, March 17, 1999 __________________________________________________________________ Monsanto and the Gene Giants suffered through another disastrous 45 days from March to mid-April. If the biotech industry thought that the worst = of their public relations nightmares were over (see Food Bytes #12, 13, 15, = & 17), they were wrong. By the ides of March, even the most stalwart promoters of Frankenfoods, the grain cartels and the Clinton administration, were showing signs of strain. Among the most notable developments: * At an international meeting of entomologists (scientists who study insects) in Basel Switzerland in March, experts warned that genetically engineered (GE) Bt crops are exuding 10-20 times the amount of toxins contained in conventional (non-GE) Bt sprays, and are harming beneficial insects (such as ladybugs/ladybirds and lacewings) and soil = microorganisms, and may likely be harming insect-eating bird populations. The scientists called for a moratorium on commercial planting of Bt crops. Worldwide in 1998 there were 19.3 million acres of Bt crops under cultivation (representing 28% of all GE crops), including 45% of the US cotton crop, 25% of the corn, and 3.5% of the potatoes. For further information on = the Basel meeting contact For info on the Center for Food Safety & Greenpeace lawsuit filed in the US Feb. 18 to remove Bt = crops from the market see . * Attorneys from the Center for Food Safety are contributing to a strategic, precedent-setting seed patenting lawsuit in US federal court. = A small farm supply and seed dealer in Iowa, Marvin Redenius, is suing Pioneer Hi-Bred International (the largest seed company in the world, = now being bought out by Dupont), claiming that agricultural seed and biotechnology patents issued by the US Patent Office since 1985 are = illegal because the US Congress never intended that key food crops be patented. Traditionally the US Congress has held that seed companies have a right = to use one another's seed for breeding purposes and that farmers have the right to save and replant seeds. According to the March 3 Wall Street Journal, "Biotech Industry Shivers at Threat to Seed Patents" the = lawsuit has thrown Monsanto and the other biotech corporations into a panic. As = the WSJ puts it the lawsuit "places at risk much of the billions of dollars = in investments by companies such as Monsanto Co., Dupont Co., and = Novartis." Stay tuned for further developments. * British poll results announced March 11 in the Daily Record found that "nine out of 10 shoppers would switch supermarkets to avoid genetically modified (GM) food," and would be willing to travel "up to double the distance" to a supermarket which banned gene-foods. On the same day the Church of Scotland issued a five-year study in which they condemned the "unethical" practices of US and transnational biotech corporations. Donald Bruce, Church spokesperson, stated in the Aberdeen Press and Journal: "There is indignation from people that they are not being given a choice. It smacks of imperialism--but instead of a Boston = Tea Party, this time we could have a Rotterdam Soya Bean Fest with soya and maize dumped into the North Sea." * On March 11, leading scientists and activists from over a dozen = nations (Europe, North America, Japan, Malaysia, Bangladesh, India) meeting at a "Biodevastation" conference in India vowed to "bring down" Monsanto and = the other biotechnology transnationals and build a global mass movement for sustainable and organic agriculture. Ronnie Cummins summed up the battle that civil society faces at a well-attended press event in New Delhi: = "We stand on the edge of a Biotech Century where a runaway technology = wielded by Monsanto and other transnationals threaten food security and biodiversity in both the North and the South." The India "Biodevastation = 2" conference was organized by Dr. Vandana Shiva, as a follow-up to last year's "Biodevastation 1" conference in St. Louis (see Food Bytes # 11). = On May 19-20 in Seattle, Washington the Edmonds Institute will be = sponsoring "Biodevastation 3," which will coincide with the annual convention = across town of America's trade association of genetic engineering corporations, BIO (Biotechnology Industry Organization). For further details on Biodevastation 3, contact Beth Burrows at . * On March 11, the Consumers Union of Japan issued a report on = increasing anti-GE food activities in Japan. The CUJ announced that 2300 of Japan's 3300 local government assemblies have now called on the Tokyo government = to require mandatory labeling of GE foods. In addition two million Japanese consumers have signed a petition to the government on GE labeling. = Despite mounting public concern, Tokyo has already approved the importation of = 22 GE foods and six food additives. The CUJ and other citizen groups are especially alarmed about GE industry plans to grow gene-altered rice in Japan--where nine million tons are consumed annually. For more info = contact . On March 14, the Los Angeles Times ran a = major story entitled "Japanese Choke on American Biofood," in which they noted increasing alarm by US authorities over growing Japanese opposition to = $11 billion of unlabeled American food exports, much of it containing genetically engineered ingredients. The LAT story called attention to a 1997 government survey in which 80% of Japanese consumers expressed "reservations" about GE foods, with 92.5% supporting mandatory labeling. * Another major GE food safety controversy erupted in the UK on March = 12, when researchers at the York Nutritional Laboratory announced that soy = food allergies among the British public unexpectedly rose 50% in 1998, coinciding with a large increase in imported foods from the US = containing genetically engineered soybeans. Last year Monsanto's Roundup Ready soybeans constituted 32% of the US soybean crop. Scientists have warned = for years that foreign proteins, most of which have never been consumed by humans, gene-spliced into common foods could set off an epidemic of food allergies. In the US, eight percent of children, and two percent of = adults already suffer from food allergies--with symptoms ranging from mild unpleasantness to sudden death. British biotech expert Dr. Mae-Won Ho of the Open University has warned that Monsanto's RRS soybeans could pose serious food allergy problems. As Ho stated in a legal affidavit last August, Monsanto's RRS soybeans: "contain genes from a virus, a soil bacterium and from a petunia (plant), none of which have been in our = food before... The soil bacterium, Agrobacterium sp. (CP4EPSPS)... is unlike = any other protein that humans have eaten. And there is no reliable method = for predicting its allergenic potential. Allergic reactions typically occur only some time after the subject is sensitized by initial exposure to = the allergen." * The newspaper, the Independent, reported on March 14 that the UK government had entered into secret negotiations with biotech companies = for a voluntary three-year ban on growing GE crops in Britain. The = Independent noted that the Tony Blair government was wary of forcing Monsanto and = the other biotech companies into an involuntary ban for fear of trade = reprisals by the US. And on March 17, the giant Sainsbury's supermarket chain in = the UK announced that they were joining forces with six other leading EU grocery chains--Marks and Spencer (UK); Carrefour (France); Effelunga (Italy); Migros (Switzerland); Delhaize (Belgium), and Superquinn (Ireland)--to form a consortium to buy non-GE foods and food = ingredients. This move, characterized by the EU business association Eurocommerce as "very significant," comes in response to increasing consumer demands for = a ban on GE foods. Other major chains and food and beverage producers in = the EU (Asda, Iceland, and Waitrose in the UK; Unilever in Germany; 90% of = all supermarkets in Austria; Carlsberg beer in Denmark; among many others) = have already announced bans on GE products. * The UK New Scientist stated in its 2/29 issue that increasing demands = for certified GE-free soya, corn, and rapeseed (canola) oil are bringing = world market prices down in most cases to within 6-10% of the price of conventional (co-mingled) grains and oils. This in turn has alarmed American grain exporters and agribusiness representatives, who have = begun to warn US farmers that "intense opposition" to GE foods in the EU and Japan threatens the US export market and may soon lead to requirements = for crop segregation, GE residue testing, and labeling. At the National = Grain and Feed Association convention in San Francisco on March 20, according = to Reuters, farmers were warned that despite pressure from the US = government on the EU, Japan, and other nations for open markets and no GE labeling, opposition to GE crops around the world was increasing. (See the CFS web site for more information). * In a related development, grain export giant Archer Daniels Midland = (ADM) announced in early March a program for segregation and extensive = marketing of GE-free "identity preserved" soybeans. ADM emphasized that their new GE-free soybean program was in response to global "customer demand." In this context of increasing public controversy and market volatility, = German biotech company AgrEvo announced in mid-March that they were postponing commercial planting of GE Liberty Link soybeans in the USA because of = the lack of "import clearances" or approvals in overseas markets. The = American Soybean Association said they approved of AgrEvo's precautionary move, voicing concern about the loss of $4.5 billion in US annual soy exports. = Up until now the US has been able to export shipments of unlabeled, non-segregated soybeans worth $2.5 billion to the EU every year, as well = as $1billion to Japan. * The heavily indentured US scientific establishment--personified in = this case by the National Academy of Sciences--announced in March that it = would set up an "expert panel" to evaluate cuurent EPA regulations on GE crops (such as Bt crops) containing their own pesticides. After publishing = the proposed list of scientists who would make up this NAS "expert panel" (almost all of whom are rabid supporters of genetic engineering), the = NAS came under heavy fire from public interest groups such as the Consumers Union, the Union of Concerned Scientists, Greenpeace, the Pesticide = Action Network, RAFI, and the Campaign for Food Safety. In response the NAS has made overtures to a well-known biotech critic, Dr. Rebecca Goldburg, to = be added to the panel. Of course this token gesture is not enough. Until = the proposed expert panelists publicly reveal their ties to the biotech industry, and the panel is reconstituted with at least 90% of scientists being truly "objective," the NAS advisory panel will continue to be criticized for what it is, a "scientific greenwash" of a dangerous and currently out-of-control technology. * On March 15 leading French non-governmental organizations (NGOs), including Greenpeace and Ecoropa, called for the French government to follow the lead of the UK and Denmark and impose a national ban on the planting of all GE crops. Etienne Vernet of Ecoropa told Reuters that = the French public demand "a moratorium on all types of genetically modified food for three to five years." In response to growing public pressure, = the French government recently implemented a ban on growing transgenic beets and rapeseed. Other EU nations with partial or comprehensive bans on growing or importing GE crops include Austria, Greece, and Luxembourg. = GE crops are also banned in Norway. On April 1, the Greece government announced a ban on planting GE crops and vowed to join with other EU nations to prevent further approvals of GE foods. EU authorities have rejected all new applications for GE products since April 1998, much to = the chagrin of the US government and biotech transnationals. Four biotech applications are currently deadlocked--a Monsanto corn, a Zeneca tomato, and two Monsanto Bt cotton applications. On March 22, a leading Spanish farmers organization, COAG, with 200,000 members, called for a complete moratorium on GE foods and crops *South Korean students and environmentalists occupied and blockaded a government-funded biotech greenhouse on March 12. Hanging a large banner and chaining themselves to the entrance, activists told the Korean press that they wanted an immediate ban on the cultivation or importation of = GE foods and crops. Before being arrested by police, a demonstrator told = the media: "We're here today to let the government and those researchers involved know how the public feels about their incompetence, arrogance, = and lack of responsibility." Since December 1998--facing mounting public pressure--the South Korean government has begun developing national regulations for mandatory labeling of GE foods and crops. On March 25 = the Malaysian government directed an advisory committee to come up with a = draft for national biosafety legislation within three months. For further info = on anti-biotech and safe food activism in the Asia and Pacific region see = the Pesticide Action Network's web site . *On March 16, Brazil's main commercial newspaper, Gazeta Mercantil, reported that Monsanto had withdrawn its patent applications for five varieties of Roundup Ready soybeans. Although Monsanto said its = withdrawal was merely for "technical" reasons, Gazeta Mercantil pointed out that Monsanto is losing the biotech debate in Brazil. Among recent reverses = for Monsanto: a statement by SBPC, the national association of scientists, = as well as Brazilian consumer protection agencies, opposing RRS; a ban on growing RRS soybeans in the large soya-growing state of Rio Grande do = Sul; and the decision of the enforcement agency of the Environment Ministry, IBAMA, to join Greenpeace and the NGO IDEC in a court battle to ban RRS soybeans. Meanwhile Brazil continues to export increasing quantities of GE-free soybeans to the EU, in effect taking market share away from the = US. With 160 million people, Brazil represents the most strategic market for = GE production and consumption in Latin America. In a related development, informed sources have told CFS News that the government of Chile--stung = by criticisms that it sided with the US in the recent sabotage of a = Biosafety Protocol treaty in Colombia--has begun deliberations to develop a set of mandatory labeling regulations for GE foods. ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BE8D0C.7306C4E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    CFS News #18 (formerly Food Bytes) April 16, 1999
    News & = Analysis on=20 Genetic Engineering, Factory Farming, and Organics
    By: Ronnie Cummins = &=20 Ben Lilliston
    Campaign for Food Safety <http://www.purefood.org>
    Affil= iated=20 with the Center for Food Safety <http://www.icta.org>
    and the = Organic=20 Consumers Association <http://www.organicconsumers.org<= /A>>
    ______________________________________________________________= ____
    The=20 Campaign for Food Safety is happy to announce our formal = affiliation
    with the=20 Center for Food Safety in Washington,D.C. Beginning with this
    issue = we are=20 changing the name of Food Bytes to CFS News (Campaign for Food
    Safety = News).
    _______________________________________________________________= ___

    ISSUE=20 #18: Global Action Intensifies Against Monsanto & the Gene=20 Giants
    (Information on Global Days of Action April 15-30 at end of = this=20 issue.)

    Quote of the Month:

    "This is the beginning of = the end=20 of trying to force-feed consumers
    unwanted and unneeded genetically=20 manipulated food."

    Benedikt Haerlin, Greenpeace = International Press=20 Release, March 17,=20 1999
    _________________________________________________________________= _

    Monsanto=20 and the Gene Giants suffered through another disastrous 45 days
    from = March to=20 mid-April. If the biotech industry thought that the worst of
    their = public=20 relations nightmares were over (see Food Bytes #12, 13, 15, = &
    17), they=20 were wrong. By the ides of March, even the most stalwart
    promoters of = Frankenfoods, the grain cartels and the Clinton
    administration, were = showing=20 signs of strain. Among the most notable
    developments:

    * At an=20 international meeting of entomologists (scientists who study
    insects) = in=20 Basel Switzerland in March, experts warned that = genetically
    engineered (GE)=20 Bt crops are exuding 10-20 times the amount of toxins
    contained in=20 conventional (non-GE) Bt sprays, and are harming beneficial
    insects = (such as=20 ladybugs/ladybirds and lacewings) and soil microorganisms,
    and may = likely be=20 harming insect-eating bird populations. The scientists
    called for a=20 moratorium on commercial planting of Bt crops. Worldwide in
    1998 = there were=20 19.3 million acres of Bt crops under cultivation
    (representing 28% of = all GE=20 crops), including 45% of the US cotton crop,
    25% of the corn, and = 3.5% of the=20 potatoes. For further information on the
    Basel meeting contact <fkoechlin@datacom.ch> For = info on the=20 Center for
    Food Safety & Greenpeace lawsuit filed in the US Feb. = 18 to=20 remove Bt crops
    from the market see <www.icta.org>.

    * Attorneys = from the=20 Center for Food Safety are contributing to a
    strategic, = precedent-setting=20 seed patenting lawsuit in US federal court. A
    small farm supply and = seed=20 dealer in Iowa, Marvin Redenius, is suing
    Pioneer Hi-Bred = International (the=20 largest seed company in the world, now
    being bought out by Dupont), = claiming=20 that agricultural seed and
    biotechnology patents issued by the US = Patent=20 Office since 1985 are illegal
    because the US Congress never intended = that key=20 food crops be patented.
    Traditionally the US Congress has held that = seed=20 companies have a right to
    use one another's seed for breeding = purposes and=20 that farmers have the
    right to save and replant seeds. According to = the March=20 3 Wall Street
    Journal, "Biotech Industry Shivers at Threat to = Seed=20 Patents" the lawsuit
    has thrown Monsanto and the other biotech=20 corporations into a panic. As the
    WSJ puts it the lawsuit = "places at=20 risk much of the billions of dollars in
    investments by companies such = as=20 Monsanto Co., Dupont Co., and Novartis."
    Stay tuned for further=20 developments.

    * British poll results announced March 11 in the = Daily=20 Record found that
    "nine out of 10 shoppers would switch = supermarkets to=20 avoid genetically
    modified (GM) food," and would be willing to = travel=20 "up to double the
    distance" to a supermarket which banned=20 gene-foods.
    On the same day the Church of Scotland issued a five-year = study=20 in which
    they condemned the "unethical" practices of US and = transnational biotech
    corporations. Donald Bruce, Church = spokesperson, stated=20 in the Aberdeen
    Press and Journal: "There is indignation from = people=20 that they are not
    being given a choice. It smacks of imperialism--but = instead=20 of a Boston Tea
    Party, this time we could have a Rotterdam Soya Bean = Fest=20 with soya and
    maize dumped into the North Sea."

    * On = March 11,=20 leading scientists and activists from over a dozen nations
    (Europe, = North=20 America, Japan, Malaysia, Bangladesh, India) meeting at=20 a
    "Biodevastation" conference in India vowed to "bring = down" Monsanto and the
    other biotechnology transnationals and = build a=20 global mass movement for
    sustainable and organic agriculture. Ronnie = Cummins=20 summed up the battle
    that civil society faces at a well-attended = press event=20 in New Delhi: "We
    stand on the edge of a Biotech Century where a = runaway=20 technology wielded
    by Monsanto and other transnationals threaten food = security and
    biodiversity in both the North and the South." The = India=20 "Biodevastation 2"
    conference was organized by Dr. Vandana = Shiva,=20 as a follow-up to last
    year's "Biodevastation 1" conference = in St.=20 Louis (see Food Bytes # 11). On
    May 19-20 in Seattle, Washington the = Edmonds=20 Institute will be sponsoring
    "Biodevastation 3," which will = coincide with the annual convention across
    town of America's trade=20 association of genetic engineering corporations,
    BIO (Biotechnology = Industry=20 Organization). For further details on
    Biodevastation 3, contact Beth = Burrows=20 at <beb@igc.apc.org>.

    * On=20 March 11, the Consumers Union of Japan issued a report on = increasing
    anti-GE=20 food activities in Japan. The CUJ announced that 2300 of Japan's
    3300 = local=20 government assemblies have now called on the Tokyo government = to
    require=20 mandatory labeling of GE foods. In addition two million = Japanese
    consumers=20 have signed a petition to the government on GE labeling. = Despite
    mounting=20 public concern, Tokyo has already approved the importation of 22
    GE = foods and=20 six food additives. The CUJ and other citizen groups are
    especially = alarmed=20 about GE industry plans to grow gene-altered rice in
    Japan--where = nine=20 million tons are consumed annually. For more info contact
    <nishoren@jca.ax.apc.org>. = On March=20 14, the Los Angeles Times ran a major
    story entitled "Japanese = Choke on=20 American Biofood," in which they noted
    increasing alarm by US=20 authorities over growing Japanese opposition to $11
    billion of = unlabeled=20 American food exports, much of it containing
    genetically engineered=20 ingredients. The LAT story called attention to a
    1997 government = survey in=20 which 80%  of Japanese consumers = expressed
    "reservations"=20 about GE foods, with 92.5% supporting mandatory labeling.

    * = Another major=20 GE food safety controversy erupted in the UK on March 12,
    when = researchers at=20 the York Nutritional Laboratory announced that soy food
    allergies = among the=20 British public unexpectedly rose 50% in 1998,
    coinciding with a large = increase in imported foods from the US containing
    genetically = engineered=20 soybeans. Last year Monsanto's Roundup Ready
    soybeans constituted 32% = of the=20 US soybean crop. Scientists have warned for
    years that foreign = proteins, most=20 of which have never been consumed by
    humans, gene-spliced into common = foods=20 could set off an epidemic of food
    allergies. In the US, eight percent = of=20 children, and two percent of adults
    already suffer from food = allergies--with=20 symptoms ranging from mild
    unpleasantness to sudden death. British = biotech=20 expert Dr. Mae-Won Ho of
    the Open University has warned that = Monsanto's RRS=20 soybeans could pose
    serious food allergy problems. As Ho stated in a = legal=20 affidavit last
    August, Monsanto's RRS soybeans: "contain genes = from a=20 virus, a soil
    bacterium and from a petunia (plant), none of which = have been=20 in our food
    before... The soil bacterium, Agrobacterium sp. = (CP4EPSPS)... is=20 unlike any
    other protein that humans have eaten. And there is no = reliable=20 method for
    predicting its allergenic potential. Allergic reactions = typically=20 occur
    only some time after the subject is sensitized by initial = exposure to=20 the
    allergen."

    * The newspaper, the Independent, reported = on=20 March 14 that the UK
    government had entered into secret negotiations = with=20 biotech companies for
    a voluntary three-year ban on growing GE crops = in=20 Britain. The Independent
    noted that the Tony Blair government was = wary of=20 forcing Monsanto and the
    other biotech companies into an involuntary = ban for=20 fear of trade reprisals
    by the US. And on March 17, the giant = Sainsbury's=20 supermarket chain in the
    UK announced that they were joining forces = with six=20 other leading EU
    grocery chains--Marks and Spencer (UK); Carrefour = (France);=20 Effelunga
    (Italy); Migros (Switzerland); Delhaize (Belgium), and=20 Superquinn
    (Ireland)--to form a consortium to buy non-GE foods and = food=20 ingredients.
    This move, characterized by the EU business association=20 Eurocommerce as
    "very significant," comes in response to = increasing=20 consumer demands for a
    ban on GE foods. Other major chains and food = and=20 beverage producers in the
    EU (Asda, Iceland, and Waitrose in the UK; = Unilever=20 in Germany; 90% of all
    supermarkets in Austria; Carlsberg beer in = Denmark;=20 among many others) have
    already announced bans on GE = products.

    * The=20 UK New Scientist stated in its 2/29 issue that increasing demands=20 for
    certified GE-free soya, corn, and rapeseed (canola) oil are = bringing=20 world
    market prices down in most cases to within 6-10% of the price=20 of
    conventional (co-mingled) grains and oils. This in turn has=20 alarmed
    American grain exporters and agribusiness representatives, = who have=20 begun
    to warn US farmers that "intense opposition" to GE = foods in=20 the EU and
    Japan threatens the US export market and may soon lead to=20 requirements for
    crop segregation, GE residue testing, and labeling. = At the=20 National Grain
    and Feed Association convention in San Francisco on = March 20,=20 according to
    Reuters, farmers were warned that despite pressure from = the US=20 government
    on the EU, Japan, and other nations for open markets and = no GE=20 labeling,
    opposition to GE crops around the world was increasing. = (See the=20 CFS web
    site
    <www.purefood.org> for more=20 information).

    * In a related development, grain export giant = Archer=20 Daniels Midland (ADM)
    announced in early March a program for = segregation and=20 extensive marketing
    of GE-free "identity preserved" = soybeans. ADM=20 emphasized that their new
    GE-free soybean program was in response to = global=20 "customer demand." In
    this context of increasing public = controversy=20 and market volatility, German
    biotech company AgrEvo announced in = mid-March=20 that they were postponing
    commercial planting of GE Liberty Link = soybeans in=20 the USA because of the
    lack of  "import clearances" or = approvals in overseas markets. The American
    Soybean Association said = they=20 approved of AgrEvo's precautionary move,
    voicing concern about the = loss of=20 $4.5 billion in US annual soy exports. Up
    until now the US has been = able to=20 export shipments of unlabeled,
    non-segregated soybeans worth $2.5 = billion to=20 the EU every year, as well as
    $1billion to Japan.

    * The = heavily=20 indentured US scientific establishment--personified in this
    case by = the=20 National Academy of Sciences--announced in March that it would
    set up = an=20 "expert panel" to evaluate cuurent EPA regulations on GE=20 crops
    (such as Bt crops) containing their own pesticides.  After = publishing the
    proposed list of scientists who would make up this NAS = "expert panel"
    (almost all of whom are rabid supporters of = genetic=20 engineering), the NAS
    came under heavy fire from public interest = groups such=20 as the Consumers
    Union, the Union of Concerned Scientists, = Greenpeace, the=20 Pesticide Action
    Network, RAFI, and the Campaign for Food Safety. In = response=20 the NAS has
    made overtures to a well-known biotech critic, Dr. = Rebecca=20 Goldburg, to be
    added to the panel. Of course this token gesture is = not=20 enough. Until the
    proposed expert panelists publicly reveal their = ties to the=20 biotech
    industry, and the panel is reconstituted with at least 90% of = scientists
    being truly "objective," the NAS advisory panel = will=20 continue to be
    criticized for what it is, a "scientific = greenwash"=20 of a dangerous and
    currently out-of-control technology.

    * On = March 15=20 leading French non-governmental organizations (NGOs),
    including = Greenpeace=20 and Ecoropa, called for the French government to
    follow the lead of = the UK=20 and Denmark and impose a national ban on the
    planting of all GE = crops.=20 Etienne Vernet of Ecoropa told Reuters that the
    French public demand = "a=20 moratorium on all types of genetically modified
    food for three to = five=20 years." In response to growing public pressure, the
    French = government=20 recently implemented a ban on growing transgenic beets
    and rapeseed. = Other EU=20 nations with partial or comprehensive bans on
    growing or importing GE = crops=20 include Austria, Greece, and Luxembourg. GE
    crops are also banned in = Norway.=20 On April 1, the Greece government
    announced a ban on planting GE = crops and=20 vowed to join with other EU
    nations to prevent further approvals of = GE foods.=20 EU authorities have
    rejected all new applications for GE products = since April=20 1998, much to the
    chagrin of the US government and biotech = transnationals.=20 Four biotech
    applications are currently deadlocked--a Monsanto corn, = a Zeneca=20 tomato,
    and two Monsanto Bt cotton applications. On March 22, a = leading=20 Spanish
    farmers organization, COAG, with 200,000 members, called for = a=20 complete
    moratorium on GE foods and crops

    *South Korean = students and=20 environmentalists occupied and blockaded a
    government-funded biotech=20 greenhouse on March 12. Hanging a large banner
    and chaining = themselves to the=20 entrance, activists told the Korean press
    that they wanted an = immediate ban=20 on the cultivation or importation of GE
    foods and crops. Before being = arrested by police, a demonstrator told the
    media: "We're here = today to=20 let the government and those researchers
    involved know how the public = feels=20 about their incompetence, arrogance, and
    lack of = responsibility." Since=20 December 1998--facing mounting public
    pressure--the South Korean = government=20 has begun developing national
    regulations for mandatory labeling of = GE foods=20 and crops. On March 25 the
    Malaysian government directed an advisory=20 committee to come up with a draft
    for national biosafety legislation = within=20 three months. For further info on
    anti-biotech and safe food activism = in the=20 Asia and Pacific region see the
    Pesticide Action Network's web site = <www.poptel.org.uk/panap/>= .

    *On=20 March 16, Brazil's main commercial newspaper, Gazeta = Mercantil,
    reported that=20 Monsanto had withdrawn its patent applications for five
    varieties of = Roundup=20 Ready soybeans. Although Monsanto said its withdrawal
    was merely for=20 "technical" reasons, Gazeta Mercantil pointed out = that
    Monsanto is=20 losing the biotech debate in Brazil. Among recent reverses = for
    Monsanto: a=20 statement by SBPC, the national association of scientists, as
    well as = Brazilian consumer protection agencies, opposing RRS; a ban = on
    growing RRS=20 soybeans in the large soya-growing state of Rio Grande do Sul;
    and = the=20 decision of the enforcement agency of the Environment = Ministry,
    IBAMA, to=20 join Greenpeace and the NGO IDEC in a court battle to ban = RRS
    soybeans.=20 Meanwhile Brazil continues to export increasing quantities of
    GE-free = soybeans to the EU, in effect taking market share away from the = US.
    With 160=20 million people, Brazil represents the most strategic market for = GE
    production=20 and consumption in Latin America. In a related development,
    informed = sources=20 have told CFS News that the government of Chile--stung by
    criticisms = that it=20 sided with the US in the recent sabotage of a Biosafety
    Protocol = treaty in=20 Colombia--has begun deliberations to develop a set of
    mandatory = labeling=20 regulations for GE foods.
    ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BE8D0C.7306C4E0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 08:41:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA24449 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA10484 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:58:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA10379 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 05:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jal1.jal1.telmex.net.mx ([148.233.240.92]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:57:50 -0500 Message-ID: <199904230457000570.02833349@acnet.net> References: <2.2.32.19990422153924.009bcf48@mail.nidlink.com> <199904222311550140.0147369C@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.11 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:57:00 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Biodiversity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id FAA10398 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 528 Hello: > "if human activity continues to dominate nature on 95% of the terrestial landscape, > the new "steady state" of species will contain about 5% of today's species". >..."in perhaps 20 years starting in the early 1990s, the > corporate genome, as it were, will go through its own evolutionary process, > with the number of "species" shrinking at least 95% and the size/power of > companies going up several-fold. This profound change will undoubtedly > trigger equally major changes in the behavior and impacts of corporations; > these must be factored in by ecologists, biologists, politicians, as they > look ahead". > "in Great Britain ... most people no longer believe that government or public > institutions can stand up to corporations/special interests when scientific > uncertainty and messy, complex questions get in the way of new (or existing) > markets and profits." Chuck knows! (much better than your average knower). I think - that's is going to take more than "ecologists, biologists, politicians". The gravest fact (it seems to me) is that consumers, voters, in short - people (except that people have become primarily consumers within the context of this phenomena), have already been locked out of a lot of alternatives and have little basis upon which to make (and make felt) an informed choice (as is being done in England). What must be done is going to have to come from people like YOU (dear readers), because no one else has been able to develop (or hang on to) the bit of insight that should be enough to provide a bit of a head start in terms of knowing what is real and what is important. With FOOD, the difference CAN be felt and will be paid for by those that have it to give. I may have already departed from the strictly biodiversity angle - however, the same criteria and choices that are limiting biodiversity are also affecting what we could call QUALITY, which (I insist) has a biological foundation, where food is concerned. The problem is then, to make better (in terms of diversity and biologically based quality), food available, and in such a way that it is not restricted to an elite group. It is for that reason that I have decided to induce flowering in pineapples - in as biologically as possible a way. Nothing additional follows. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 22/04/99 at 8:39 AM Charles Benbrook wrote: >The latest issue of Science (April 9, 1999, Vol. 284) has a couple >of astounding articles. "Heeding the Warning in Biodivrsity's basic Law" >summarizes a technical report also in the issue, and ends by pointing out >that the latest data/models suggest that if human activity continues to >dominate nature on 95% of the terrestial landscape, the new "steady state" >of species will contain about 5% of today's species. Based on this >prediction, we are just rounding first base in our collective longer-run >impact on biodiversity. Great thought to begin the day with. > > The "Science Compass" piece is also good -- it revisits Hardin's >"Tradegy of the Commons" and makes the case for institutional diversity in >dealing with sustainability challenges involving common property resources. >Interesting perspectives offered on the failure of western solutions in >Southeast Asian irrigated farming regions. It misses (at least does not >discuss) two major changes governing the impact of people on the planet and >steps to promote sustainability -- the volume of trade/movement of capital, >resources, goods and the evolution of transnational corporations that are >more powerful than most national governments and certainly dance to the beat >of a different drummer when it comes to impacts on the commons and >who/what/how controls their behavior. > The article points out that people, communities, governments often >find ways to solve common property problems that meet their needs and work >sustainably. But in perhaps 20 years starting in the early 1990s, the >corporate genome, as it were, will go through its own evolutionary process, >with the number of "species" shrinking at least 95% and the size/power of >companies going up several-fold. This profound change will undoubtedly >trigger equally major changes in the behavior and impacts of corporations; >these must be factored in by ecologists, biologicts, politicians, as they >look ahead. > > It appears we are heading for a period when there is a fundamental >mismatch between what institutions can accomplish -- public and private -- >and the actions and profit needs of transnationals. Perhaps GMO issues >resonant so deeply with the public in Great Britain because most people no >longer believe that government or public institutions can stand up to >corporations/special interests when scientific uncertainty and messy, >complex questions get in the way of new (or existing) markets and profits. > > chuck > > > >Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) >Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) >5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] >Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 08:59:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01383 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA14736 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:18:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA14684 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:18:03 -0400 (EDT) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (travelers.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.13]) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA04646 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:18:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:18:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: dsc17@travelers.mail.cornell.edu To: SANET-mg Subject: organic ag in the Economist In-Reply-To: <199904230739_MC2-7306-8854@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 529 I'm such a strange amalgam of backgrounds and interests that perhaps I'm the only subscriber to both this list and the Economist(??), so I thought I'd share that there is an interesting article summarizing the debate and progress of USDA organic standards in this week's issue. (April 17-23 issue, pp.34-35) Check it out It has a good quick summary of the history and pertinent issues, and is quite sympathetic to organic in general... (At least I thought so..any comments?) Take care folks David To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 09:09:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA01587 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA20014 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:39:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA19955 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id HAA22255 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:35:31 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: MORE SOYBEANS?? To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199904230739_MC2-7306-8854@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 530 The GOVERNMENT writes: "The United Soybean Board has awarded more than a million dollars in grants to support soybean gene mapping by Cregan and other scientists around the country. Finding soybean genes to enhance yields and pest resistance could eventually lead to raising U.S. yields by several hundred million bushels a year." Why does the research establishment continue to try to solve the wrong problem? For at least the last twenty years, the same government has noted that it is distribution, not production, of food which is the most serious problem. And, more than one quarter of the food that leaves our farms is wasted. Yet the grant and fancy equipment jockeys love to spend our taxes trying to find ways to grow more and more and more, while the environment and the social commons continue to disintigrate. I don't believe that more or cheaper soybeans will really solve any important problems (except perhaps for cargill, mcdonalds, central soya, murphy, tyson and other similar destroyers of the commons.) And we hear from farmers that too many soybeans seriously lower prices. When will the government stop helping the big evil corporations at the expense of everything and everyone else? Bill Duesing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 10:57:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA03739 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11132 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:52:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11109 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDG8TW>; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:54:13 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'joelbgruver'" Subject: RE: lignin content of roots Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:54:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 531 Joel, Below are several citations about root/shoot ratios in rye and vetch. I did not look more closely to see if they'll answer your question. Also, see Paul Shipley in your department at the University of Maryland (Nutrient Management program). He reviewed the literature as part of his M.S. on N-scavenging by cover crops. The published report includes *estimates* from the literature on the percentage of biomass expected in the roots: AU: Shipley,-P.R.; Meisinger,-J.J.; Decker,-A.M. TI: Conserving residual corn fertilizer nitrogen with winter cover crops. SO: Agron-j. Madison, Wis. : American Society of Agronomy, [1949-. Sept/Oct 1992. v. 84 (5) p. 869-876. CN: DNAL 4-AM34P LA: English Record 1 of 7 - AGRICOLA 1992-1997 AU: Reynolds,-E.B.; Smith,-J.C. TI: Effect of fertilizers and lime on emergence, nitrogen content, and ratio of roots to tops in hairy vetch. SO: Agron-j. Madison, Wis. : American Society of Agronomy, [1949-. Aug 1950. v. 42 (8) p. 387-389. CN: DNAL 4-AM34P LA: English Record 2 of 7 - AGRICOLA 1992-1997 AU: Mwaja,-V.N.; Masiunas,-J.B.; Weston,-L.A. TI: Effects of fertility on biomass, phytotoxicity, and allelochemical content of cereal rye. SO: J-chem-ecol. New York, N.Y. : Plenum Publishing Corporation. Jan 1995. v. 21 (1) p. 81-96. CN: DNAL QD415.A1J6 LA: English Record 3 of 7 - AGRICOLA 1992-1997 AU: Paterson,-E.; Rattray,-E.A.S.; Killham,-K. TI: Effect of elevated atmospheric CO2 concentration on C-partitioning and rhizosphere C-flow for three plant species. SO: Soil-biol-biochem. Exeter : Elsevier Science Ltd. Feb 1996. v. 28 (2) p. 195-201. CN: DNAL S592.7.A1S6 LA: English Record 4 of 7 - AGRICOLA (1984 - 12/91) AU: White,-P.J.; Cooper,-H.D.; Clarkson,-D.T.; Earnshaw,-M.J.; Loughman,-B.C. TI: Effects of low temperature on growth and nutrient accumulation in rye (Secale cereale) and wheat (Triticum aestivum). SO: Ann-Bot. London : Academic Press. July 1991. v. 68 (1) p. 23-31. CN: DNAL 450-AN7 LA: English Record 5 of 7 - AGRICOLA (1984 - 12/91) AU: White,-P.J.; Earnshaw,-M.J.; Clarkson,-D.T. TI: The effect of shoot-root ratio and temperature on K+ influx in rye. SO: Dev-Plant-Soil-Sci. Dordrecht : Kluwer Academic Publishers. 1989. v. 36 p. 203-206. ill. CN: DNAL S596.7.D4 LA: English Record 6 of 7 - AGRICOLA 1998/01-1999/03 AU: Kasai,-M.; Nakamura,-T.; Kudo,-N.; Maeshima,-M.; Sawada,-S. TI: The activity of the root vacuolar H+-pyrophosphatase in rye plants grown under conditions deficient in mineral nutrients. SO: Plant-cell-physiol. Kyoto, Japan : Japanese Society of Plant Physiologists. Aug 1998. v. 39 (8) p. 890-894. CN: DNAL 450-P699 LA: English Record 7 of 7 - AGRICOLA 1998/01-1999/03 AU: White,-P.J. TI: The regulation of K+ influx into roots of rye (Secale cereale L.) seedlings by negative feedback via the K+ flux from shoot to root in the phloem. SO: J-exp-bot. Oxford : Oxford University Press. Dec 1997. v. 48 (317) p. 2063-2073. CN: DNAL 450-J8224 LA: English _______________________________________________ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:03:50 -0400 (EDT) From: joel b gruver Subject: lignin content of roots Hello to all... I am wondering if anyone can refer me to literature describing any of the following: Root:shoot ratios for cover crops (specifically cereal rye and hairy vetch) _________________________________________ Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 11:44:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04936 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA24815 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:22:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24757 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <2VVDG8Y1>; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:25:34 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" , "'smallfarm@reeusda.gov'" Subject: Small farm lenders rated by Small Business Administration Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:25:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 532 SANet and SmallFarm: I have just received a copy of the report cited below, as well as a copy of the report for the state of Maryland. Available on the web at http://www.sba.gov/ADVO/lendinginus2.html. You might also want to see http://www.sbaonline.sba.gov/advo/ Paper and microfiche copies of all Advocacy reports are also available for purchase from the National Technical Information Service, (703) 605-6000. Comments and technical questions may be directed to Dr. Robert Berney, SBA's chief economist, or to Dr. Charles Ou, 409 Third Street, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20416, (202) 205-6930; fax (202) 205-6928. Office of Advocacy U.S. Small Business Administration NEWSRELEASE SBA Number: 99-03 ADVO For Release: March 9, 1999 Contact: Kathryn Tobias (202)205-6938 SMALL FARM LENDERS RATED STATE BY STATE; LARGE BHCS ALSO RATED FOR "SMALL FARM FRIENDLINESS" WASHINGTON - Small farms are receiving more loan dollars from banks, but fewer loans, according to a new state-by-state study. Small Farm Lending in the United States, published by the Office of Advocacy of the U.S. Small Business Administration, ranks the "small farm friendliness" of banks within states and offers an overview of small farm lending nationwide. A companion study, Small Farm Lending by Bank Holding Companies, for the first time rates the top 57 multi-billion-dollar bank holding companies (BHCs) for their lending to small farms. Both studies rely on data from banks' June 1998 "call reports" to banking regulators, and both are designed to help small farmers identify the banks most likely to meet their credit needs. The state-by-state study finds: While the stock of small farm loans under $250,000 increased by 3.9 percent, from $48.4 billion in June 1997 to $50.3 billion in June 1998, the number of such loans declined by 4.6 percent. Either the average loan size is rising or many small loans have been repaid. The smallest banks-those with less than $100 million in assets-have the largest share of small farm loan dollars as a percentage of total assets (9.9 percent). The largest banks have a small farm loan share some 100 times smaller (0.1 percent). More than half (51.1 percent of the dollar value) of small farm loans are made by the smallest banks although these banks own less than 6 percent of total bank assets. Conversely, the largest banks, which own 56.7 percent of bank assets, make only about 5 percent of small farm loans. Recent consolidations in banking have hit the smallest banks hardest, reducing their number by 6.7 percent, from 6,047 to 5,644. Thus, there are fewer small banks to lend to small farms. "I'm concerned about what these figures mean for small farmers as well as small firms in their communities," said SBA Chief Counsel for Advocacy Jere W. Glover. "The small farmer can take little comfort from growth in farm lending that is concentrated in large loans over $1 million. Such loans increased at more than six times the rate of small loans in 1998. By publicizing this information, we believe we'll encourage bank competition in lending to the small farm and rural sectors." The companion study, Small Farm Lending by Bank Holding Companies, provides nationwide detail about the small farm lending of BHCs-the very large bank holding companies with branches in many states. Such detail may not appear in a given state report if the BHC is headquartered in a different state. The top five BHCs in lending to small farms in 1998 were Mercantile Bancorporation, Norwest, Union Planters, Marshall & Ilsley, and Commercial Bankshare. The 57 largest BHCs are less involved in small farm lending than they are in lending to small businesses. Although they hold two-thirds of all bank assets, these BHCs have only 11.1 percent of the $50.3 billion in small farm loans outstanding. The BHCs had an average share of just 0.18 percent of their total assets in small farm lending. Only one of the BHCs-Mercantile Bancorporation-had more than 1 percent. "In light of the continuing trend toward merger and consolidation in the banking industry, the bank holding company study adds an important piece to the picture" Glover said. "If the BHCs are buying up banks in a town and not making farm loans, the local leaders need to be aware of that." Advocacy's lending studies are analyses of the "call reports" that banks file in June each year with their bank regulatory agencies. The studies are available on the Internet's World Wide Web at http://www.sba.gov/ADVO/lendinginus2.html. Paper and microfiche copies of all Advocacy reports are also available for purchase from the National Technical Information Service, (703) 605-6000. Comments and technical questions may be directed to Dr. Robert Berney, SBA's chief economist, or to Dr. Charles Ou, 409 Third Street, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20416, (202) 205-6930; fax (202) 205-6928. Banks that participate in the SBA's preferred or certified lender programs should be considered small business friendly. To locate the top Small Business Administration lenders in your region, contact your local SBA district office or the Small Business Answer Desk at 1-800-827-5722. ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 12:25:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05740 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27535 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:24:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27481 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.25] (gl-ppp05.hevanet.com [204.119.60.25]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02537; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904231524.IAA02537@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:26:02 -0700 Subject: FW: ScaleNet: For All You Want to Know About Scale Insects From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 533 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: ScaleNet: For All You Want to Know About Scale Insects Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999, 6:50 AM STORY LEAD: ScaleNet: For All You Want to Know About Scale Insects ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Hank Becker, (301) 504-1624, hbecker@asrr.arsusda.gov April 23, 1999 ----------- Doug Miller is one of the world's leading experts on scale insects. If you doubt this, check out ScaleNet. ScaleNet, designed to bring information about scale insects to homeowners, farmers and scientists, is on the World Wide Web at: http://www.sel.barc.usda.gov/scalenet/scalenet.htm Scale insects damage millions of dollars worth of food, ornamental, fiber and greenhouse crops each year. Until ScaleNet, information about the pests was buried in thousands of scientific journals and books--making it difficult for the average person to locate. Miller, with the Agricultural Research Service, developed ScaleNet with colleagues in Israel and Canada. When completed, it will allow the lay person to locate every single scale insect that Miller and other experts over the centuries have found and named--plus more important information. Through keyword searches and other queries, ScaleNet site provides comprehensive information including the insects' biology, classification, naming history, distribution, plant hosts, economic importance, controls and scientific literature about them. Miller describes ScaleNet as a treasure house of information generated by researchers worldwide on all scientific and common names of scale. These names are hot-linked with key words. Reference information includes journal titles, dates, annotations and authors. Homeowners can use ScaleNet to hunt for names of the scale insects on their hibiscus. Farmers can use it to find out what scale insect is frolicking in the alfalfa. Federal regulatory officials at U.S. ports of entry can log onto the site as well. USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service officials will use it to get instant information on which scales occur on what U.S. crops and where they are known to occur. This information is vital to keeping unwanted foreign pests from sneaking into the U.S., where they have no natural enemies. ARS is the principal research agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ---------- Scientific contact: Douglass R. Miller, ARS Systematic Entomology Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-5895, fax (301) 786-9422, dmiller@sel.barc.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 14:05:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05740 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27535 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:24:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27481 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.25] (gl-ppp05.hevanet.com [204.119.60.25]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02537; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904231524.IAA02537@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 08:26:02 -0700 Subject: FW: ScaleNet: For All You Want to Know About Scale Insects From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 534 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: ScaleNet: For All You Want to Know About Scale Insects Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999, 6:50 AM STORY LEAD: ScaleNet: For All You Want to Know About Scale Insects ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Hank Becker, (301) 504-1624, hbecker@asrr.arsusda.gov April 23, 1999 ----------- Doug Miller is one of the world's leading experts on scale insects. If you doubt this, check out ScaleNet. ScaleNet, designed to bring information about scale insects to homeowners, farmers and scientists, is on the World Wide Web at: http://www.sel.barc.usda.gov/scalenet/scalenet.htm Scale insects damage millions of dollars worth of food, ornamental, fiber and greenhouse crops each year. Until ScaleNet, information about the pests was buried in thousands of scientific journals and books--making it difficult for the average person to locate. Miller, with the Agricultural Research Service, developed ScaleNet with colleagues in Israel and Canada. When completed, it will allow the lay person to locate every single scale insect that Miller and other experts over the centuries have found and named--plus more important information. Through keyword searches and other queries, ScaleNet site provides comprehensive information including the insects' biology, classification, naming history, distribution, plant hosts, economic importance, controls and scientific literature about them. Miller describes ScaleNet as a treasure house of information generated by researchers worldwide on all scientific and common names of scale. These names are hot-linked with key words. Reference information includes journal titles, dates, annotations and authors. Homeowners can use ScaleNet to hunt for names of the scale insects on their hibiscus. Farmers can use it to find out what scale insect is frolicking in the alfalfa. Federal regulatory officials at U.S. ports of entry can log onto the site as well. USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service officials will use it to get instant information on which scales occur on what U.S. crops and where they are known to occur. This information is vital to keeping unwanted foreign pests from sneaking into the U.S., where they have no natural enemies. ARS is the principal research agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ---------- Scientific contact: Douglass R. Miller, ARS Systematic Entomology Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-5895, fax (301) 786-9422, dmiller@sel.barc.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 14:06:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08155 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24885 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:01:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dialup0.macomb.com (IDENT:root@dialup0.macomb.com [199.120.118.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24600 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from macomb.com (system-88-31.macomb.com [209.152.88.31]) by dialup0.macomb.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11221; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:58:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3720A841.5C5CDE29@macomb.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:05:05 -0500 From: Kathy Jeffries Reply-To: jeffries@macomb.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Burghgrave , Carol Lew , Dan Wilson , Danny Terry , David Culver , Debbie Ortman , Deb Cavanaugh-Grant , "Donham, Kelley" , Donna , Jay Verhulst , John Crabtree , John Starnes , Kendall Thu , Martha Klems , Martie Fuller , Paula Clark , Robert Morey , Sara Wood , Tom Hutson , Robert_Northcutt , SANET Subject: Song Release Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 535 Local Singer-songwriter to Release Song on Factory Farms MACOMB, IL (April 23, 1999) - Local singer-songwriter Steve Axley will be releasing his latest creation on this upcoming Earth Day event at Macomb High School, Saturday April 24, 1999. As part of local Earth Day activities, local environmentally concerned group SOLE (Save Our Land & Environment) will be presenting a display of what has been happening in our agricultural industry. Part of the display will feature the audio presentation of Steve Axley's CD "Factory Pigs" and T-Shirts of the "infamous" Factory Pig. The CD will be available on Saturday for purchase. Net proceeds will be used by SOLE for future projects. Steve Axley, from Macomb, IL is a singer-songwriter with musical roots in Oklahoma. Three of his songs have been recorded in Nashville and released in Europe by Jerry Hanlon on UAR Records, an independent label. One of his songs- "Oowee Oowee", a comical look at forgetting the words to a song in a live performance, based on an actual experience- was the title cut of a CD of novelty songs Hanlon released in Europe, summer '98. The song achieved top-ten status on the indie charts in parts of Europe in late '98 and early '99. Steve Axley has been a regular performer with the Macomb Unplugged Living Room Concert Series. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 14:06:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08159 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA00278 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:06:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pueblo.rain.org (IDENT:root@pueblo.rain.org [198.68.144.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA00245 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coyote.rain.org (root@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by pueblo.rain.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29582; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:08:14 -0700 Received: from sals (s6.max2.sb.rain.org [198.68.144.189]) by coyote.rain.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA14703; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001401be8dab$081b8d60$bd9044c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , Subject: Fw: These days... Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:02:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 536 Check this out > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Tavegia, Mary > >> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:45 PM > >> To: 'jet'; 'tt'; 'pdt'; 'tjt'; Shnurman, Jacob; 'jg'; 'JDG'; 'sv' > >> Subject: These days... > >> > >> > >> We spend more, but have less; we buy more, but enjoy it less. > >> > >> We have bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences, but less > >> time; more degrees, but less common sense; more knowledge, but less > >> judgement; more experts, but more problems; more medicine, but less > >> wellness. > >> > >> We spend too recklessly, laugh too little; drive too fast, get too angry > >> too quickly; stay up too late, get up too tired; read too seldom, watch > TV > >> too much, and pray too seldom. > >> > >> We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. > >> > >> We talk too much, love too seldom and lie too often. > >> > >> We've learned how to make a living, but not a life; added years to life, > >> not life to years. > >> > >> We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing > the > >> street to meet the new neighbour. > >> > >> We've conquered outer space, but not inner space; we've done larger > >> things, > >> but not better things; we've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul; > >> we've split the atom, but not our prejudice; we write more, but learn > >> less; > >> plan more, but accomplish less. > >> > >> We've learned to rush, but not to wait; we have higher incomes, but lower > >> morals; more food but less appeasement; more acquaintances, but fewer > >> friends; more effort, but less success. > >> > >> We build more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies > >> than ever, but have less communication; we've become long on quantity, > but > >> short on quality. > >> > >> These are the time of fast foods and slow digestion; tall men and short > >> character; steep profits, and shallow relationships. > >> > >> These are the times of world peace, but domestic warfare; more leisure > and > >> less fun; more kinds of food, but less nutrition. > >> > >> These are days of two incomes, but more divorce; of fancier houses, but > >> broken homes. > >> > >> These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, > >> one-night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from > >> cheer, to quiet, to kill. > >> > >> It is a time when there is much in the show window, and nothing in the > >> stockroom. > >> > >> Indeed it's all true, think about it. > >> > >> mtavegi@dhs.state.ia.us > >> > > > > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 23 22:38:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA16242 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA28484 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:40:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA28403 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (ppp35-0-Canberra.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.35] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA23303; Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:39:09 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Intergalactic Garage" , Subject: Grass fed beef, was ...RE: Joel Salatin Speaking at Claymont Farm CSA 4/20 Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:50:39 +1000 Message-ID: <000101be8df4$dafe7b40$233325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 537 As I am in Australia, I am denied the opportunity to attend, but this line did catch my eye: >A grass-fed beef tasting will follow as will a question and answer period. Australians, as you may know, rarely eat anything other than grass-fed beef. As I get older, and as my health becomes more sensitive, I can make more distinctions between qualities of grass fed beef. The commercial industry focuses on grading by 'frame-score' which is a bit of a guide. Certified beef is not available generally here because no abattoir is producing a separate product line - it's a horse-cart order problem - not enough certified animals because no market, no market because no animals, slaughter-house question caught in the middle. I am fortunate in having a local butcher [small chain of shops] who buys his own animals on the hoof, finishes them on [his own] grass and has them slaughtered and returned for sale. The product is so tender and healthy tasting at times, it's as if the beast was shot at night while dreaming peacefully. The contrast with the stress tainted, low pH meat from animals - raised on grass - that have gone through the trucking to auction, purchase by abattoir at noisy auction, run into another truck and then off to a dusty yard before being slaughtered, is enormous. It's no wonder people think that such animals, purchased at auction, make better beef if they have three weeks in the feed lot, from which they are usually direct-sold to the abattoir. I think the best solution in our circumstance - but hard to achieve in terms of social and commercial organisation, would be for coalition between organic beef farmers in harsher and softer pasture circumstances, to bring the [predominant here] one to a handful of beasts per square mile cattlemen into an arrangement where their animals can be finished on [equally certified] West Virginia-equivalent soft pastures. But that seems pie in the sky here; maybe if it were done in Texas our good ole boys might take note... best wishes Dennis Argall To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 25 19:42:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA05411 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA25122 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:48:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25116 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d11-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.11]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA07708; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:48:19 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Kevin Smyth" , Subject: RE: greenhouse aphids Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:59:58 +1000 Message-ID: <000201be8f6f$574da240$0b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199904220133.VAA25655@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 538 Kevin wrote >I haave aphids on chard, which hAs been growing all winter in a permanent bed in my greenhouse. This greenhouse also contains lots of flats of little baby plants. Should I be concerned that the aphids will cause problems by spreading to these? What should I do to avoid a problem? Thanks My experiences with aphids is that they vary with the degree of stress, particularly nutritional, on plants, thus more with soil imbalance and more in pots than in open, natural, balanced conditions. In a greeenhouse 'permanent bed' you may have some substantial imbalance, perhaps a potassium deficiency if you have been heavily cropping and heavily watering. A small amount of pot ash, or mulching with straw, hay, maybe chopped lucerne hay, may provide eventual help. Are you topping up with good compost? Is there a rotation? Does the soil attract earthworm? Are there any predators in the greenhouse? Are ladybirds, etc happy there. Baby plants running on seed energy may do well until they start to shoot up using the resources of a tired soil. my thoughts; contradiction, improvement welcome Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Apr 25 23:52:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07794 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA06636 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dialup0.macomb.com (IDENT:root@dialup0.macomb.com [199.120.118.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA05783 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from macomb.com (system-88-56.macomb.com [209.152.88.56]) by dialup0.macomb.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19721; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:57:19 -0500 Message-ID: <3723D770.63CEEE51@macomb.com> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:03:12 -0500 From: Kathy Jeffries Reply-To: jeffries@macomb.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Burghgrave , Deb Cavanaugh-Grant , Debbie Ortman , gale m lewis , Jane Kuck , John Belz , Karen Hudson , Margo McKendree , Martha Klems , Paula Clark , SANET , Tom Hutson , Terri Savage , Ted , Bill Redding , Danny Terry , Dan Wilson , "Donham, Kelley" , John Crabtree , Pam Hanson , "Rose O'Donnell" , Stephanie Schaefer Subject: Get The Word Out Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 539 To One and All Who Want to Have a Hand in Getting the Word Out!!! The Factory Pigs CD is ready to go out to anyone willing to get it on their local radio for air time. This is our way to try and get some attention on the livestock situation and what is happening to our environment. We want to blast the airwaves!!!! I wish I could say the CDs are a come and get it, but we are not funded by any grants or such and would like to have reimbursement for the CD. The CD was professionally recorded and packaged very nicely in jewel case with labelling. This is our second project, with the first being our Seminar last January (got great TV coverage) The seminar gave birth to this song...... and next will be other projects to get some eyes opened. (I've only begun) This is an effort to keep the momentum going and a hand to help us all in this fight. Please help!!! We have put up a website..that is educational and filled with links to research and other groups and organics businesses to give people choices in their food and life styles. http://homepages.go.com/~earthprotect Our asking for the CD is $10 plus s&h of $3. Would also like to know from those getting the CD, what radio stations they will be hitting for this, so we can keep track. And to help make even more of a visual impact we have T-shirts with the "factory pig" on it. The shirt is $12.50 plus s&h $3 The funds will help us to create more projects. We are hoping to produce an environmental album and a documentary video as a start of our upcoming projects. I know many of you have been in this battle for a few years and we are new, so our momentum is just starting.......together more ....and more......hopefully there can be made a difference. Last Fall CWN and NRDC had a blitz with the Animal factory books.......we want to try and make an impact with the music industry and hope for more interests. If interested in helping out contact me at kathy@tonkatinkers.com ps Have a limited number of autographed copies......so catch one for your personal pleasure (G) (oink oink) Kathy Jeffries SOLE (Save Our Land & Environment) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 26 10:24:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14777 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA25502 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:27:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA25492 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA06645; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002701be8fe8$1d005be0$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "Kevin Smyth" , Subject: Re: greenhouse aphids Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:23:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 540 Yes, chances are good that the aphids will spread from the permanent bed of chard to other plants. However, you may have natural enemies among the aphids that you can also spread to the baby plants. Here is what I would do: Harvest the chard. Plant more chard outside, where aphids are less of a problem because of exposure to natural enemies, exposure to weather, and, often, better balanced soil. Look at the chard and see if you can find natural enemies among the aphids. If you find any hard, silvery aphid bodies, those are aphid mummies. With a good magnifying glass, you should be able to see if they are intact (no holes), which means that the aphid parasitoid inside has not emerged. Collect as many of these mummies as you have time to find, and put them in a closed, clear plastic container to emerge. (I actually use gelatin capsules, but you probably don't have those around.) When you see little wasps emerging, open the container and set it out in the greenhouse. If your aphids have spread to your baby plants, this may help to control them. Kim Stoner Kevin Smyth wrote: >I haave aphids on chard, which hAs been growing all winter in a permanent bed >in my greenhouse. This greenhouse also contains lots of flats of little >baby plants. Should I be concerned that the aphids will cause problems >by spreading to these? What should I do to avoid a problem? Thanks > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 26 10:52:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15349 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11288 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:58:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA11182 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990426135939.10874.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:59:39 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:59:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Fwd: ACTIVISTS DISRUPT MONSANTO STOCKHOLDERS' MEETING To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 541 Good morning Saneteers, here's an FYI on Monsanto. Things are heating up in ole St. Louie... > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:35:06 -0400 > To: ban@tao.ca, genetics@gn.apc.org, > rvanstaveren@iatp.org > From: Brian Tokar > Subject: ACTIVISTS DISRUPT MONSANTO STOCKHOLDERS' MEETING > > >From: T4shea@aol.com > >Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:58:36 EDT > > > >Gateway Green Alliance > >P.O. Box 8094, St. Louis MO 63156 > >E-mail: fitzdon@aol.com or T4shea@aol.com > > > >For Immediate Release: April 24, 1999 > > > >GATEWAY GREENS DUMP MILK AS SHAPIRO AND MONSANTO > STOCKHOLDERS WATCH > > > >Security Outnumbers Environmentalists 100 to 1 > > > >April 24, 1999. St. Louis, Missouri. As Monsanto CEO > Robert Shapiro > >addressed the company's annual stockholders meeting, > Gateway Green Alliance > >(GGA) member Steve Cassilly stood up, saying, "I would > like to talk about > >labeling of genetically altered food. "I will get to > that later," Shapiro > >retorted. > > > >"We need to discuss it now!," Cassilly insisted. "There > are real safety > >concerns about Monsanto's blatant refusal to label their > genetically altered > >food. This is being voiced by people all over the > world....And your company > >wants to deny them their rightful choice.. If your food > products are so great > >why don't you advertise them as genetically enhanced. > > > >Shapiro refused to answer the question put to him. > Cassilly continued to > >prod him for an answer. He added, Hey Bob, I would > like an answer to my > >question. In protest Cassilly then poured a container > of milk onto the > >carpet saying loudly, "This is what I think of your > hormones in our milk." > >His action referred to the Monsanto produced rBGH > (recombinant Bovine Growth > >Hormone), which is injected into cows to increase milk > production. Many > >independent health experts believe the hormone is > responsible for health > >threats to both cows and people. The future of rBGH is > dubious, as the US > >remains the only industrialized country allowing its > use. > > > >Stockholders watched as Cassilly then dismissed himself > from the meeting > >escorted by a number of security personnel and > eventually by local > >authorities. > > > >During discussion, one shareholder, a farmer, voiced > concern about the closed > >market in Europe and the announcment by Archer Daniels > Midland not accepting > >genetically modified crops. He also added that he was > troubled by the huge > >benefits and compensation being given to board members > while dividends > >remained almost non existent. Shapiro glossed over the > market issue and > >replied to the farmer that, "We are working very hard at > this company, we're > >not just sitting around smoking cigars." Referring to > the amount of money > >executives are making. > > > >Some stockholders commented on the intense levels of > security. One asked > >Shapiro, "With so many guards, how did those people ever > manage to throw a > >pie in your face?" > > > >According to Tammy Shea, the other Gateway Green > present, "With over 200 > >security guards, they outnumbered Steve and me 100 to 1. > There was a lot of > >confusion created when the meeting was changed from its > announced location at > >Monsanto World Headquarters to the Solutia compound. > > > >The supposedly independent Solutia separated from > Monsanto in 1998. > > > >"Guards followed me wherever I went," she noted. > Monsanto security had > >attempted to block her entrance into the meeting. When > she connected them by > >phone to her stockbroker, they reluctantly stood back. > > > >Shea felt that "A lot of stockholders are worried. > Clearly the topic of what > >to do about the European markets not being completely > open to genetically > >modified imports is a touchy one with Shapiro and > shareholders. When I asked > >Shapiro to offer further opinion on that subject, his > response created an > >unsettled feeling that was clear to everyone. > > > >Outside Monsanto World Headquarters, two dozen GGA > members picketed and > >chatted with reporters. Asked why they were there, Don > Fitz explained "We > >want to urge Monsanto stockholders to consider the > viability of a company > >which is putting all of its effort into genetic > engineering at the same time > >the technology is being protested throughout the world." > > > >The environmental group is particularly concerned with > the high levels of > >cancer-causing Insulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1) in > milk. GGA spokesperson > >Daniel Romano stated "It is clear that cows injected > with rBGH release IGF-1 > >into their milk. When people drink this milk, they have > an increased risk of > >colon, breast and prostate cancer." > > > >The Gateway Green Alliance is a chapter of the Missouri > Green Party and the > >Greens/Green Party USA, one of several organizations > participating the > >"Global Days of Action against Genetic Engineering." > During April 22-28, > >demonstrations and teach-ins are being held in the US, > Canada and Europe. > >For more information > > > >Contact: Tammy Shea, 314-458-5026 (voice/fax); > >Don Fitz, 314-727-8554 > > > >-30- > > > > === ------------------ Kate A. Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 609-234-9200 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 26 11:48:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA16658 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05544 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:43:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05477 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.33] (gl-ppp13.hevanet.com [204.119.60.33]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA02258; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904261443.HAA02258@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:45:15 -0700 Subject: FW: Genetic Help on the Way for Flood-Prone Corn From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , New Crops Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 542 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Genetic Help on the Way for Flood-Prone Corn Date: Mon, Apr 26, 1999, 7:01 AM STORY LEAD: Genetic Help on the Way for Flood-Prone Corn ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov April 26, 1999 ----------- April is the cruellest month for farmers when heavy spring rains drown crops. But Agricultural Research Service scientists are working on a built-in genetic life preserver that may help corn survive flooding. That genetic flood insurance--good news for farmers who face added costs in labor, seed and fertilizer to replant--comes from flood-tolerant corn breeding lines discovered by ARS scientist Martin M. Sachs in Urbana, Illinois. Sachs, based at the University of Illinois, has identified flood-tolerant South American plants that live up to three times longer under water than most North American corn varieties. He found the flood-resistant corn while screening 400 genetic land races from the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Center in Mexico City. He crossed the water-tolerant lines from South America with normal inbred North American lines. The results: half of the resulting corn plants survived flooding, after the North American parents had died. Sachs would like to determine the genetic, physiological, biochemical and molecular differences these flood tolerant inbreds have and ultimately isolate the gene or genes involved. So far, he's identified 10 different breeding lines, each of which shows a simple dominant trait for increased flood tolerance. For now, he uses traditional breeding techniques to cross the desired trait into American corn lines. But he envisions that genetic engineering will allow him to fortify corn with even more flood tolerance from rice. Sachs is director of ARS' Maize Genetics Cooperation Stock Center, part of the National Plant Germplasm System supported by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ARS is the chief research agency of the USDA. ---------- Scientific contact: Martin Sachs, ARS University of Illinois, Urbana, Ill., phone (217) 244-0864, fax (217) 333-6064, msachs@uiuc.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 26 14:15:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19821 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA01788 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:17:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01780 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3) id NAA10590 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;37249ED6.7F18.03CD.000] Content-Identifier: Help for a Stude UA-Content-Id: Help for a Stude Autoforwarded: FALSE X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:13:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:13:00 -0400 From: Marc Safley Subject: Help for a Student in Dublin... To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <37249ED6.7F18.03CD.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-p4)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 543 Good afternoon everyone! I have received an email from Ms. Cait Mooney, a final-year student in Dublin, Ireland, in which she has asked about the industry and diseases associated with poultry farming. She would appreciate information concerning the most commonly encountered diseases and the costs to the industry associated with them. If you have this type of information and are willing to share with Ms. Mooney, please send it directly to her at mooneyca@biores-irl.ie Thank you for your help with her request. Marc Safley marc.safley@usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 26 16:25:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27252 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA07050 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:15:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07023 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:15:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Kfc110259@aol.com Received: from Kfc110259@aol.com (7815) by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7GDHa02599 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <285b1729.245614dd@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:13:33 EDT Subject: jerusalem artichokes To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: Kfc110259@aol.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 544 looking for info on Jerusalem artichokes. raising them as forage, i here you can cut them 3 times in a year at 4' tall. also harvesting the bulbs for cattle feed. any info would be appreciated kc To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 26 17:11:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01519 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA16596 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:18:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA16524 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990426201747.28011.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:17:47 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:17:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Fwd: Fwd: Vermont Activists Scale Tower to Protest Monsanto-University Ties To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 545 I wonder what the Saneteers in Burlington think about the happenings described below...? The activism against Monsanto seems to be picking up in the U.S. How long before the U.S. consumer backlash against genetically modified food begins to gather momentum? Kate > > Activists Scale Burlington Water Tower to Protest > > Monsanto-University Ties > > > > On Earth Day morning, Thursday April 22, two Vermont > > activists scaled the > > University of Vermont's 150 foot water tower to hang > > a huge banner saying > > "Reclaim the Earth. Monsanto out of UVM." One of > > them, Darini Nicholas of > > Plainfield, spent much of the day at the top of the > > tower speaking with > > supporters and local news reporters by cell phone > > and walkie-talkie. > > Nicholas is a native of Sri Lanka, an active member > > of NorthEast Resistance > > Against Genetic Engineering (NERAGE), and a graduate > > student at the > > Institute for Social Ecology (ISE) in Plainfield. > > > > "I am here at great personal risk to draw attention > > to the environmental > > devastation supported by the University of Vermont's > > (UVM) investment > > policy," said Nicholas in a prepared statement. > > "This action is part of a > > movement to demand that UVM invest our public funds > > in a socially and > > environmentally responsible fashion rather than in > > corporations like > > Monsanto." > > > > A noontime rally on the steps of the university > > library featured speakers > > on the hazards of genetic engineering and Monsanto's > > sordid history from > > NERAGE, ISE and the Native Forest Network, and music > > by Seattle-based > > songwriter Jim Page. > > > > Ties between Vermont's state university and the > > Monsanto company have been > > a matter of controversy for ten years. In 1989, a > > veterinary pathologist > > at UVM's experimental farm revealed that cows > > injected with Monsanto's > > genetically engineered Bovine Growth Hormone were > > aborting fetal calves > > with severe deformities. Her revelations led to an > > investigation by the > > General Accounting Office of the US Congress and > > helped delay government > > approval of rBGH for use by dairy farmers in the US. > > In 1997 student > > activists revealed that Monsanto stock represented > > the single largest > > holding in the Vermont state university's portfolio. > > > > A university representative told the Burlington Free > > Press on Thursday that > > the university now holds $192,500 in Monsanto stock. > > The campus-based > > Coalition for Responsible Investment (CRI) has > > discovered that UVM recently > > sold off its individual corporate holdings and is > > instead investing in > > mutual funds. This is clearly in response to > > growing controversy over the > > university's investment policies. Students and > > local activists are also > > investigating continuing research ties between UVM > > and Monsanto. > > > > A second demonstration against university-corporate > > ties promoting > > biotechnology will be sponsored by NERAGE and others > > at the University of > > Massachusetts on May 6th. > > > > (Photos of the Burlington banner-hanging will be > > available online shortly.) > > > > > *********************************************************** > > NorthEast Resistance Against Genetic Engineering > > c/o Institute for Social Ecology > > P.O. Box 89 > > Plainfield, Vermont 05667 USA > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 26 18:11:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06192 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23511 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:13:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23498 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:13:05 -0400 (EDT) From: cjb32@cornell.edu Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (travelers.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.13]) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA07942; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:12:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: cjb32@travelers.mail.cornell.edu To: Kate Smith cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Vermont Activists Scale Tower to Protest Monsanto-University Ties In-Reply-To: <19990426201747.28011.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 546 Hi Saneters: as a former UVM'er and a current Cornellian, I just want to point out that there's a lot of land grants sleeping with Monsanto and etc. I think it's great that people are protesting and getting attention. Back in the late 80's, the UVM dairy farm got a lot of negative press about their rBST research. Ink in the bulk tank.... What I never heard was whether or not that research was published... didn't it go to court? Cheerio, Caitlin On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Kate Smith wrote: > > I wonder what the Saneteers in Burlington think about the > happenings described below...? The activism against > Monsanto seems to be picking up in the U.S. How long > before the U.S. consumer backlash against genetically > modified food begins to gather momentum? Kate > > > > > Activists Scale Burlington Water Tower to Protest > > > Monsanto-University Ties > > > > > > On Earth Day morning, Thursday April 22, two Vermont > > > activists scaled the > > > University of Vermont's 150 foot water tower to hang > > > a huge banner saying > > > "Reclaim the Earth. Monsanto out of UVM." One of > > > them, Darini Nicholas of > > > Plainfield, spent much of the day at the top of the > > > tower speaking with > > > supporters and local news reporters by cell phone > > > and walkie-talkie. > > > Nicholas is a native of Sri Lanka, an active member > > > of NorthEast Resistance > > > Against Genetic Engineering (NERAGE), and a graduate > > > student at the > > > Institute for Social Ecology (ISE) in Plainfield. > > > > > > "I am here at great personal risk to draw attention > > > to the environmental > > > devastation supported by the University of Vermont's > > > (UVM) investment > > > policy," said Nicholas in a prepared statement. > > > "This action is part of a > > > movement to demand that UVM invest our public funds > > > in a socially and > > > environmentally responsible fashion rather than in > > > corporations like > > > Monsanto." > > > > > > A noontime rally on the steps of the university > > > library featured speakers > > > on the hazards of genetic engineering and Monsanto's > > > sordid history from > > > NERAGE, ISE and the Native Forest Network, and music > > > by Seattle-based > > > songwriter Jim Page. > > > > > > Ties between Vermont's state university and the > > > Monsanto company have been > > > a matter of controversy for ten years. In 1989, a > > > veterinary pathologist > > > at UVM's experimental farm revealed that cows > > > injected with Monsanto's > > > genetically engineered Bovine Growth Hormone were > > > aborting fetal calves > > > with severe deformities. Her revelations led to an > > > investigation by the > > > General Accounting Office of the US Congress and > > > helped delay government > > > approval of rBGH for use by dairy farmers in the US. > > > In 1997 student > > > activists revealed that Monsanto stock represented > > > the single largest > > > holding in the Vermont state university's portfolio. > > > > > > A university representative told the Burlington Free > > > Press on Thursday that > > > the university now holds $192,500 in Monsanto stock. > > > The campus-based > > > Coalition for Responsible Investment (CRI) has > > > discovered that UVM recently > > > sold off its individual corporate holdings and is > > > instead investing in > > > mutual funds. This is clearly in response to > > > growing controversy over the > > > university's investment policies. Students and > > > local activists are also > > > investigating continuing research ties between UVM > > > and Monsanto. > > > > > > A second demonstration against university-corporate > > > ties promoting > > > biotechnology will be sponsored by NERAGE and others > > > at the University of > > > Massachusetts on May 6th. > > > > > > (Photos of the Burlington banner-hanging will be > > > available online shortly.) > > > > > > > > > *********************************************************** > > > NorthEast Resistance Against Genetic Engineering > > > c/o Institute for Social Ecology > > > P.O. Box 89 > > > Plainfield, Vermont 05667 USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Apr 26 22:48:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20520 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA13233 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA13140 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu (root@rac2.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.142]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id WAA12142 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id WAA02067 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id WAA02063 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:04:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac2.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:04:36 -0400 (EDT) From: joel b gruver To: sanet Subject: lignin content of roots and shoots Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 547 Hello to all... Thanks to every one who responded with suggestions of sources of info related to modeling C inputs to cropping systems. One question that I had asked was about the lignin content of roots/shoots of cover crop species. I have just discovered a source of lignin content info for roots and shoots associated with the following covercrops: cereal rye, annual ryegrass, Austrian winter pea, hairy vetch and canola. Kuo, S., Sainju, U.M. and E.J. Jellum. (1997) Winter cover crop effects on soil organic C and carbohydrate in soil. Soil Science Society of Am. J. 61:145-152. They also measured total dry matter, c:n ratio and carbohydrate content of the roots and shoots Thanks again... Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research U of MD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 27 10:47:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA01110 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA19877 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:27:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19850 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.41] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:26:36 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:27:46 -0400 Subject: Diversified Farming Internships From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3008050066_95671_MIME_Part" Message-ID: <19990427132636000.AAA131@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.41]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 548 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3008050066_95671_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Internships in free range poultry, market gardens, applied permaculture and ecological design, rotational grazing, forage management, large scale composting, farm and ranch management. 41-acre Good Earth Farm and 600-acre Voyager Farm, in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia on the slopes of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Cabins, meals, stipend and on-farm income opportunities for qualified interns. Openings range from one to twelve months, as well as one year and two year degree programs. Contact Andy Lee, Director, Good Earth Farm School, 1702 Mountain View Road, Buena Vista, Virginia 24416, phone and fax 540-261-8775, email: goodearth@rockbridge.net --MS_Mac_OE_3008050066_95671_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Diversified Farming Internships Internships in free range poultry, market gardens, applied permaculture= and
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    --MS_Mac_OE_3008050066_95671_MIME_Part-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 27 11:54:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04145 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07666 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:59:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07625 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00BEC56B@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:58:27 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 27 Apr 99 10:58:51 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 27 Apr 99 10:58:28 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:58:24 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: date of EU organic regulation...and the dust bowl In-reply-to: <199901152310.SAA28664@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <3D1405467C6@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 549 Hello All! Does anyone out there know the date that the EU implemented its organic regulation 2091/92? Appreciate any help you could give. PS. Did anyone else see the show/documentary on PBS last night re the Dust Bowl? It was quite powerful. It must have really seemed like the end of the world to people then, or at least the end of agriculture in the plains states. When the disaster was at its nadir, the government finally stepped in, changed its tune, established the Soil Conservation Service, and the end of the world was postponed. It made me think of other ag disasters brewing these days and hoping we'll be just as resilient in the long run. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 27 11:54:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04163 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05746 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:54:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05709 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.182] (st-ppp08.hevanet.com [198.5.254.182]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10110; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904271454.HAA10110@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:56:13 -0700 Subject: FW: New Peanut Types Could Mean Trouble for Nematodes From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: New Crops , AGRISYNERGY , SANET , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 550 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Peanut Types Could Mean Trouble for Nematodes Date: Tue, Apr 27, 1999, 7:02 AM STORY LEAD: New Peanut Types Could Mean Trouble for Nematodes ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA April 27, 1999 Jan Suszkiw, (301) 504-1630, jsuszkiw@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- New peanut strains from abroad could spell relief for southern peanut farmers bedeviled by root-knot nematodes, tiny roundworms that cost $20-40 million annually in losses and chemical controls. Geneticist Corley Holbrook of USDA's Agricultural Research Service worked with ARS colleagues to examine hundreds of exotic peanut strains whose roots deter the nematodes from feeding or laying their eggs. About two dozen of the top picks are now being crossed with commercial cultivars to improve their pest resistance, reports Holbrook, at ARS' Nematodes, Weeds and Crops Research Unit. Such cultivars could be available within five years, offering peanut farmers in Georgia, South Carolina and other southeastern states a welcome respite from chemical nematicides. Female Meloidogyne arenaria nematodes are prime targets for such chemical control. Unchecked, they establish knot-like feeding sites called root galls on plant roots. These galls choke off nutrients needed by the peanut plant, sometimes causing yield losses of more than 70 percent. Females also lay thousands of eggs on the roots, setting the stage for more losses next season. To break the cycle, Holbrook's group examined peanut germplasm collected from Asian, African and South American countries. They began with the National Peanut Germplasm Collection in Griffin, Ga., where 7,000 seed samples, called "accessions," are stored. >From a core collection of 831 accessions, they narrowed the search to 36 resistant strains. Next followed a painstaking screening regimen in the greenhouse. There, scientists repeatedly exposed the plants to the nematodes to rate the severity of feeding and egg-laying. Compared to commercial check varieties like Florunner, 21 of the peanut strains suffered 70 percent fewer root galls and egg clusters. Two Chinese peanuts showed a 90 percent reduction. Both are top picks for breeding new domestic cultivars. A more detailed story in Agricultural Research magazine's April issue is featured on the Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr99/pean0499.htm ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific arm. ---------- Scientific contact: Corley Holbrook, ARS Nematodes, Weeds and Crops Research Unit, Tifton, Ga., phone (912) 386-3372, fax (912) 386-3437, holbrook@tifton.cpes.peachnet.educ. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 27 12:57:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA05613 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA12023 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:02:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11976 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JAIT5EM5YG000CW9@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:59:08 PDT Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:04:33 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:04:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:02:37 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: date of EU organic regulation...and the dust bowl To: "'Anita Graf (Staff)'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D7FE5@10.248.CABI.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 551 Here is the link to EC reg. 2092/91 and amendments COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 2092/91 of 24 June 1991 Organic production of agricultural products and indications referring thereto on agricultural products and foodstuffs Regulations amending COUNCIL REGULATION (EEC) No 2092/91 Commission Regulation (EEC) No 1535/92 of 15 June 1992 Council Regulation (EEC) No 2083/92 of 14 July 1992 Commission Regulation (EEC) No 207/93 of 29 January 1993 Commission Regulation (EEC) No 2608/93 of 23 September 1993 Commission Regulation (EC) No 468/94 of 2 March 1994 Council Regulation (EC) No 1468/94 of 20 June 1994 Commission Regulation (EC) No 2381/94 of 30 September 1994 Commission Regulation (EC) No 1201/95 of 29 May 1995 Commission Regulation (EC) No 1202/95 of 29 May 1995 Council Regulation (EC) No 1935/95 of 22 June 1995 Commission Regulation (EC) No 418/96 of 7 March 1996 Amended by: Act of Accession of Austria, Finland and Sweden Adapted by Decision 95/1/EC, Euratom, ECSC Corrected by: OJ No L 21, 28. 1. 1995, p. 21 (EC/2381/94) > -----Original Message----- > From: Anita Graf (Staff) [SMTP:agraf@agecon.uga.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 11:58 AM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: date of EU organic regulation...and the dust bowl > > Hello All! > > Does anyone out there know the date that the EU implemented its > organic regulation 2091/92? > > Appreciate any help you could give. > > PS. Did anyone else see the show/documentary on PBS last night re > the Dust Bowl? It was quite powerful. It must have really seemed > like the end of the world to people then, or at least the end of > agriculture in the plains states. When the disaster was at its > nadir, the government finally stepped in, changed its tune, > established the Soil Conservation Service, and the end of the world > was postponed. It made me think of other ag disasters brewing these > days and hoping we'll be just as resilient in the long run. > > Anita > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 27 16:11:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA10859 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA07623 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:21:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay6.smtp.psi.net (relay6.smtp.psi.net [38.9.30.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07485 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [38.167.41.1] (helo=facserver.fifthave.org) by relay6.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu id 10cDPi-0005Ca-00; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:21:03 -0400 Received: by FACSERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <204MSYF3>; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:29:10 -0400 Message-ID: From: Tom Smith To: "'Maris Abelson'" , "'Len Mel'" , "'Green Politics'" , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Food Irradiation Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:29:07 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 552 Sources: Gary Gibbs, THE FOOD THAT WOULD LAST FOREVER: UNDERSTANDING THE DANGERS OF FOOD IRRADIATION (Garden City: New York, 1993); Campaign for Food Safety; Food and Water, Inc.; studies by Dr. George Tritsch, Ph.D. and Dr. Donald Laurie. > Latest FDA Proposal: Stealth irradiation of our food. > > A small portion of food currently sold to the American public is > exposed to radiation in order to kill harmful bacteria. Though they > declared irradiated food unsafe in 1968, the Food and Drug > Administration has since declared it safe, and now only requires that > such foods be labeled. This has still discouraged consumption. But > now the FDA is arguing for the removal of such labeling. We should be > concerned about this. > > Irradiated fats may become rancid. Some foods may lose up to 20% of > their vitamins. Because irradiation may break down cell walls, vitamin > loss may accelerate during storage. Irradiation may create free > radicals, which may react with other food components, creating > radiolytic products, some of which are known carcinogens (benzene, > formaldehyde, lipid peroxides). Only .05 milligrams of formaldehyde is > needed to constitute a mutagenic dose. Irradiation of only 30 > milligrams of sucrose (sugar), ubiquitous in food, can create this > amount of formaldehyde. The process also creates other, "unknown > radiolytic products" (URPs). The FDA claims that such compounds are > produced in amounts too tiny to worry about. Thus they discounted the > need to perform tests upon the effect of such compounds upon animals > and human beings. But physics professor Dr. Homer Ibser speculates > that "single exotic molecules may be capable of causing chromosomal > abberations." > > The FDA's conclusion was based on only 5 out of 441 studies conducted. > The validity of these 5 studies has been disputed by independent > scientists. Many of the rejected studies revealed that subject > animals experienced increased tumors, reproductive failures and kidney > damage. A study in India found chromosal abnormalities in children fed > freshly irradiated wheat. The FDA's own study showed that the > production of fungal aflatoxins, which are very serious carcinogenous, > is stimulated 100fold when grains and vegetables infected by fungal > spores are irradiated. Other facts the FDA failed to consider: (1) > when radiolytic compounds are combined, they may have a synergistic > effect upon each other. (2) human beings concentrate such toxins in > body fat, so they may accumulate in the body. > > Accidents involving the radioactive materials used in the process have > exposed workers to radiation. In the state of Georgia, radioactive > water got outside an irradiation facility and cost US taxpayers over > $30 million in cleanup costs. In New Jersey, radioactive water from an > irradiation facility was poured into drains which emptied into the > public sewer system. If the FDA gets its way, hundreds more of these > potentially dangerous irradiation facilities could be built. > > Send a comment to the FDA demanding prominent labeling, the use of the > terms "irradiation" or "irradiated" and the use of the radura symbol. > Send a copy of your letter to your congressperson and your senators. > > Send comments before May 18, 1999 to: > Dockets Management Branch (HFA-305) > Food and Drug Administration > 5630 Fishers Lane, Room 1061 > Rockville, MD 20852. > Refer to Docket #98N-1038, "Irradiation in the production, > processing and handling of food". To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 27 21:08:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16869 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA05386 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:32:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA05351 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool034-max3.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.13.84]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id JXN1WRTX; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:31:43 -0400 Message-ID: <37265932.A49B8E43@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:41:23 -0700 From: Phil Gillman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: [Fwd: Urgent Alert: CDFA Threatens Certified Farmers' Markets program!] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6DE4E4EB1B94AE1A36E74FEF" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 553 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6DE4E4EB1B94AE1A36E74FEF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------6DE4E4EB1B94AE1A36E74FEF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from southland--1 (pool012-max8.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.62]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id JXN1WRRS; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:57:57 -0400 Message-ID: <000601be9109$b3b6fe00$3e0eb2d1@southland--1> From: "Carolyn Olney" To: "Jane Allen" , "Harry Brown-Hiegel" , "CAFF" , "California Futures Network" , "Dave Eakin" , "farmernet.com" , "Andy Fisher" , "Donna Fisher" , "Janet Fletcher" , "Mischelle Mascarenhas" , "Patricia Orton" <4emerald@gte.net>, "Scott Peacock" , "Pacific Coast FMA" , "Kai Siedenburg" , "Conne Shaw" , "Desire Ventura" Cc: "Marion Kalb" Subject: Urgent Alert: CDFA Threatens Certified Farmers' Markets program! Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:40:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE90CF.074EFE40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE90CF.074EFE40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Dept. of Food & Agriculture has threatened to eliminate the Certified Farmers=3D Market Program IF legislation funding the = Department does not pass. The threat is contained in the proposed regulations which go to hearing on May 5th in Torrance and May 7th in Stockton (see below). The section was added to the proposed regulations without the knowledge of the Certified Farmers=3D Market Advisory Committee. The proposed regulation is section 1392.1.2, which states that the present regulations will expire on January 1, 2000 if proposed legislation, Assembly Bill 593, is not passed. SFMA believes that the regulations should remain intact, allowing the program to continue, = even if the department does not receive funding through legislation.=20 The present regulations grant farmers at Certified Farmers=3D Markets = and roadside stands exemptions from standard pack, grading and labeling requirements. Repealing the legislation would not only eliminate Certified Farmers=3D Markets - it would also eliminate exemptions for roadside stands.=20 MAKE YOUR VIEWS KNOWN -- OPPOSE SECTION 1392.1.2=20 Send a letter or a fax to the following: CDFA, 1220 N Street, Room A-447, Sacramento, CA 95814 Fax: 916-654-0666 Mail before May 3rd, faxes must arrive by May 7th =BA Send a copy to: Governor Gray Davis, Governor=3Ds Office, = Sacramento, CA, 95814 OR YOU CAN TESTIFY AT A HEARING - WRITTEN AND ORAL TESTIMONY ARE GIVEN EQUAL WEIGHT.=20 Wednesday, May 5th, Torrance Friday, May 7th, Stockton Ken Miller Recreation Center U.C. Agric. Extension Office 3341 Torrance Blvd. 420 S. Wilson Way Torrance, CA 90503 Stockton, CA 95205 The elimination of the CFM program should not be threatened in writing as a proposed regulations. YOU MUST STRONGLY OPPOSE THE EXISTENCE OF THIS VERY REAL THREAT. Your family=3Ds livelihood may depend on it. For further information, call Marion Kalb at 213-244-9190, ext. 14. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE90CF.074EFE40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    The Dept. of Food & Agriculture has threatened to = eliminate the Certified Farmers=3D Market Program IF legislation = funding the=20 Department does not pass.

    The threat is contained in the proposed regulations which go to = hearing on=20 May 5th in Torrance and May 7th in Stockton (see below). The section = was=20 added to the proposed regulations without the knowledge of the = Certified=20 Farmers=3D=20 Market Advisory Committee.

    The proposed regulation is section 1392.1.2, which states that the=20 present regulations will expire on January 1, 2000 if = proposed=20 legislation, Assembly Bill 593, is not passed. SFMA believes that the=20 regulations should remain intact, allowing the program to continue, = even if the=20 department does not receive funding through legislation.=20

    The present regulations grant farmers at Certified = Farmers=3D = Markets and roadside=20 stands exemptions from standard pack, grading and labeling = requirements.=20 Repealing the legislation would not only eliminate Certified = Farmers=3D = Markets - it would=20 also eliminate exemptions for roadside=20 stands.

    MAKE YOUR VIEWS KNOWN -- OPPOSE SECTION 1392.1.2 =

    Send a letter or a fax to the following:

    CDFA, 1220 N Street, Room A-447, Sacramento, CA 95814

    Fax: 916-654-0666

    Mail before May 3rd, faxes must arrive by May = 7th

    º Send a copy to: = Governor Gray=20 Davis, Governor=3Ds Office, Sacramento, CA, 95814

    OR YOU CAN TESTIFY AT A HEARING - WRITTEN AND ORAL TESTIMONY ARE = GIVEN EQUAL=20 WEIGHT.

    Wednesday, May 5th, Torrance Friday, May 7th, Stockton

    Ken Miller Recreation Center U.C. Agric. Extension Office

    3341 Torrance Blvd. 420 S. Wilson Way

    Torrance, CA 90503 Stockton, CA 95205

    The elimination of the CFM program should not be threatened in = writing as a=20 proposed regulations. YOU MUST STRONGLY OPPOSE THE EXISTENCE OF THIS = VERY REAL=20 THREAT. Your family=3Ds livelihood may depend on it. = For further=20 information, call Marion Kalb at 213-244-9190, ext.=20 14.

    ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE90CF.074EFE40-- --------------6DE4E4EB1B94AE1A36E74FEF-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Apr 27 21:11:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16936 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA00567 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:28:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00449 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool034-max3.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.13.84]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id JXN1WRTN; Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:27:56 -0400 Message-ID: <37265850.EE423750@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:37:36 -0700 From: Phil Gillman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg list and Digest References: <199904272210.SAA27808@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 554 A simple Request To All- Please, Please, Please, do not send HTML content to this list, as they do not always repost as html, but more often as source code- furthermore, many of you have been posting plain text and HTML- and so we get both- The Digest Rapily Runs out of room and i keep losing parts of articles. Thanks to all that remember- Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org Southland Farmers Market Association 1308 Factory Place #68 LA, CA 90013 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 08:55:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25409 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA01509 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:50:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA01446 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:53:22 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: 1999 USDA Community Food Projects Competitive Grants Program Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:53:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 555 FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Dr. Mark R. Bailey, Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, STOP 2241, 1400 Independence Avenue, SW., Washington, DC 20250-2241; telephone: (202) 401-1898; Internet: mbailey@reeusda.gov., or Dr. Elizabeth Tuckermanty, Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, STOP 2240, 1400 Independence Avenue, SW., Washington, DC 20250-2240, telephone: (202) 205-0241; Internet: etuckermanty@reeusda.gov -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Tuckermanty [mailto:etuckermanty@reeusda.gov] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 7:21 AM To: Andy Clark Subject: 1999 USDA Community Food Projects Competitive Grants Program A notice for the 1999 Community Food Projects Competitive Grants was in the Federal Register on Tuesday, April 20th. Community Food Projects are projects designed to increase food security in communities by bringing the whole food system together to assess strengths, establish linkages, and create systems that improve the self-reliance of community members over their food needs. Grantees under the program are statutorily limited to private, nonprofit entities. Yet, because proposals for Community Food Projects must promote comprehensive responses to local food, farm, and nutrition issues, applicants are encouraged to seek and create partnerships with public, private nonprofit, and private for-profit entities. Applications are due June 4th. http://www.reeusda.gov/crgam/cfp/community.htm for descriptions of previously funded projects and the request for proposal. ----------------------------------------------------- Federal Register: April 20, 1999 (Volume 64, Number 75)] [Notices] [Page 19429-19437] DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service Request for Proposals: Community Food Projects Competitive Grants Program AGENCY: Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service, USDA. ACTION: Announcement of availability of grant funds and request for proposals (RFP) for the Community Food Projects Competitive Grants Program. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: The Federal Agriculture Improvement and Reform Act of 1996 established new authority for a program of Federal grants to support the development of community food projects designed to meet the food needs of low-income people; increase the self-reliance of communities in providing for their own food needs; and promote comprehensive responses to local food, farm, and nutrition issues. This RFP sets out the objectives for these projects, the eligibility criteria for projects and applicants, and the application procedures. Proposals are requested for projects designed to increase food security in a community (termed Community Food Projects). This RFP contains the entire set of instructions needed to apply for a Fiscal Year (FY) 1999 Community Food Projects Competitive Grants Program (CFPCGP) grant. DATES: APPLICATIONS MUST BE RECEIVED ON OR BEFORE June 4, 1999. (See PART IV--SUBMISSION OF A PROPOSAL below for information on where and when to submit an application.) Proposals received after June 4, 1999 will be returned without review. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Dr. Mark R. Bailey, Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, STOP 2241, 1400 Independence Avenue, SW., Washington, DC 20250-2241; telephone: (202) 401-1898; Internet: mbailey@reeusda.gov., or Dr. Elizabeth Tuckermanty, Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, STOP 2240, 1400 Independence Avenue, SW., Washington, DC 20250-2240, telephone: (202) 205-0241; Internet: etuckermanty@reeusda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 09:40:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26254 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA00358 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:32:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00293 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:35:28 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'jfujii@hawaii.edu'" Subject: permaculture vs. sustainable ag Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:35:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 556 Forwarded: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 05:08:15 -1000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Jack K. Fujii" Can anyone tell me the difference between permaculture and sustainable agriculture. Thanks, Jack To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 10:38:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27546 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA05654 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:34:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05636 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA06475 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990428093858.007d1a10@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:38:58 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: RE: Jerusalem artichokes In-Reply-To: <199904272210.SAA27808@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 557 At 06:10 PM 4/27/99 -0400, you wrote: >Subject: RE: Jerusalem artichokes > >Once you've planted them, they will only be supplanted by dark forest growth >above them or pigs. Any root fragment will regrow. >But beware that for >those for whom the j.a. does not produce great gassiness, there may be, >taken in excess, a speedy emptying of the bowel. Gee, I can't believe this crop isn't more popular! Takes over the land, causes intestinal distress...sounds like Monsanto! Seriously, stay away from j.a. A neighbor once planted a few and could never get rid of them. Some plants just ain't worth the trouble. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 11:32:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA28813 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05863 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:27:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05831 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ns.mntm.org (ns.mntm.org [209.18.254.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00896 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rrc2.rrcnet.org (rrc2.rrcnet.org [209.18.245.2]) by ns.mntm.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21628 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:27:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from anp35.rrcnet.org by rrc2.rrcnet.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/11Jul96-0511PM) id AA29698; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:26:08 -0500 Message-Id: <9904281426.AA29698@rrc2.rrcnet.org> From: "Phil Batalden" To: "sanet" Subject: tillage after dark Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:25:46 -0500 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 558 During discussions in our local sustainable/organic group there have been people suggesting that the final tillage operation should be done in late evening or after dark. Weed seeds are light sensitive for germination, and there will be fewer weeds germinating if the tillage is done in the dark? Has there been any replicated studies done in this area? Also any farmer experience that could be shared? Thank you Phillip Batalden To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 11:36:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27546 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA05654 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:34:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05636 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA06475 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990428093858.007d1a10@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:38:58 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: RE: Jerusalem artichokes In-Reply-To: <199904272210.SAA27808@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 559 At 06:10 PM 4/27/99 -0400, you wrote: >Subject: RE: Jerusalem artichokes > >Once you've planted them, they will only be supplanted by dark forest growth >above them or pigs. Any root fragment will regrow. >But beware that for >those for whom the j.a. does not produce great gassiness, there may be, >taken in excess, a speedy emptying of the bowel. Gee, I can't believe this crop isn't more popular! Takes over the land, causes intestinal distress...sounds like Monsanto! Seriously, stay away from j.a. A neighbor once planted a few and could never get rid of them. Some plants just ain't worth the trouble. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 12:12:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29622 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA20355 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:58:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20132 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn32tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.161]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA03030 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:58:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:58:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904281458.JAA03030@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: speaker needed... Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 560 Hi, Our land trust(The Jefferson County((WI))Land Trust) is looking for a speaker for one of our monthly series of informational seminars, designed to enlighten the public on issues regarding land use. The topic we need help with is direct marketing of farm products. The seminar will be held June 23 1999, from 1:30 to 4:00 pm, at our farm, The Prairie Dock Farm/CSA(Community Supported Agriculture). Were located 3/4 mile south of Watertown on Co. Hwy. Y.. You don't need a degree, be good looking or the final authority on the subject(They're letting me speak). You just need familiarity with direct marketing of farm products to the public. We're hoping to find 2 or 3 more speakers to talk about marketing different products for about a half an hour. If your interested or want more info, or want info about our other monthly seminars, just write back. Please put the letters JCLT in the subject box. Live long and prosper, Greg To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 12:22:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29937 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27044 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from milkyway.uark.edu (milkyway.uark.edu [130.184.7.93]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27005 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by milkyway.uark.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27733; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:08:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904281510.KAA29400@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: Andy Clark Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:01:42 +0000 Subject: Re: permaculture vs. sustainable ag Reply-to: steved@ncatark.uark.edu CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 561 > Can anyone tell me the difference between permaculture and sustainable > agriculture. Thanks, Jack The following two links address this question pretty well: Towards a Sustainable Agriculture http://www.ru.org/artagri.html Introduction to Permaculture: Concepts and Resources http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/perma.html More summaries can be found in the following collection of "introduction to sustainable ag" web links at: http://www.attra.org/rel.html What is Sustainable Agriculture? Exploring Sustainability in Agriculture Defining and Implementing Sustainable Agriculture Towards a Sustainable Agriculture Future Horizons: Recent Literature in Sustainable Agriculture Tracing the Evolution of Organic/Sustainable Agriculture Sustainable Agriculture: Definitions and Terms An Introduction to Sustainable Agriculture Essentially, they are similar in that they are based on goals and philosophy and not a particular set of production practices per se. Certainly the two intermix and intermingle back and forth all day long. But conceptually and how they are approached in practice, I would say they are quite distinct. One diagram I like very much, can be found at the Ecological Agriculture Projects website in the article from the list above, "An Introduction to Sustainable Agriculture." http://eap.mcgill.ca/Publications/EAP16.htm This diagram characterizes School of Thought in Agriculture on a scale of permanence from Low Sustainability to High Sustainability. Steve Diver steved@attra.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 13:59:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA02195 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28043 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:02:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27978 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:02:30 -0400 (EDT) From: holocene@juno.com Received: (from holocene@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D9BBT927; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:00:04 EDT To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:14:08 -0700 Subject: Jerusalem Artichokes Message-ID: <19990428.101753.21846.1.holocene@juno.com> References: <199904272210.SAA27808@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-9,12-17,19-42 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 562 Chickens also love Jerusalem Artichokes, and I have found that they will grow in hot, dry sandy soil or clay and with a great deal of neglect. They can also make a god mini-windbreak. Super soup (South American/British adaptation) - fry onions (when did British food ever start with anything else?) add chopped potatoes and JA, roughly equal quantities, add a few sticks of thinnly sliced celery, several tablespoons of cashew nut butter, handfuls of chopped cashew nuts, salt and pepper, a few tablespoons of horseradish sauce, a couple of bay leaves add 1/2 and 1/2 milk and water to cover boil boil boil til all soft and mushy (another Great British Tradition) you can also ad a few bits of bacon at the beginning in the frying, if your taste runs to that Enjoy Cheers, Joanne Tippett (a Brit) ********************************************************************** **Sustainability **Creativity **Participation Holocene Design - http://www.holocene.net Upcoming event: Dynamic workshop focussed on applying The Natural Step framework of sustainability, Permaculture design tools and creative thinking techniques in the design of positive solutions. In Berkeley California, Aug. 16-21, 1999. http://www.holocene.net/workshop/pathwaysworkshop.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 14:19:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02748 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA05324 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:18:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA05320 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.27] (gl-ppp07.hevanet.com [204.119.60.27]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26972; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904281718.KAA26972@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:20:31 -0700 Subject: FW: Plant Explorers Seek Wild Lesquerella From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , New Crops , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA05321 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 563 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Plant Explorers Seek Wild Lesquerella Date: Wed, Apr 28, 1999, 9:29 AM STORY LEAD: Plant Explorers Seek Wild Lesquerella ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA April 28, 1999 Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- A hunt for Mexico's wild lesquerella, a mustard family plant with oils that might be used for industrial products, will begin this spring for Agricultural Research Service scientists and university colleagues. A series of expeditions will take the scientists 5,000 miles through ten Mexican states. They will comb hillsides and gullies for wild relatives of Lesquerella fendleri, a yellow-flowered plant native to the American Southwest. Lesquerella seed compounds called hydroxy fatty acids may be alternatives to those now obtained from imported castor oil to make resins, waxes, lubricating greases, cosmetics and other products, according to ARS lesquerella breeder David A. Dierig at Phoenix, Ariz. America imports castor oil from India, Brazil, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom and Indonesia. Natural thickeners, made from chemicals on the seed coat, might be used in food processing. The protein-rich meal, left over after oil is removed, may supplement cattle feed. Breeding America's L. fendleri with wild relatives may yield offspring that bear bigger seeds with more oil and a higher amount of hydroxy fatty acids. This might boost lesquerella's potential as a profitable new crop for growers in the Southwest. Dierig, along with Andrew M. Salywon of Arizona State University, Tempe, will join colleagues from Mexico's Antonio Narro Agricultural University, Coahuila, on the expeditions to the states of Chihuahua, Coahuila, Durango, Hidalgo, Nuevo Len, Oaxaca, Puebla, San Luis Potos, Tamaulipas and Zacatecas. Some seed will be planted at test plots in Arizona. Later, a selection of seed harvested from the Arizona plots will be given to a plant gene bank in the U.S. National Plant Germplasm System. The scientists are the first to collect lesquerella from Mexico for the Germplasm System. The lesquerella quest is funded in part by ARS' National Germplasm Resources Laboratory, Beltsville, Md. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: David A. Dierig, ARS Water Conservation Laboratory, Phoenix, Ariz, phone (602) 379-4356, fax (602) 379-4355, ddierig@uswcl.ars.ag.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 14:44:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03565 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA11831 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:27:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mhub3.tc.umn.edu (mhub3.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.43]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11816 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by mhub3.tc.umn.edu with ESMTP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:27:32 -0500 Received: from [207.58.20.120] by gold.tc.umn.edu for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:27:31 -0500 From: "Brian DeVore" Reply-To: "Brian DeVore" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: HOG CONTRACTS REPORT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b8 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:27:33 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 564 REPORT: PACKERS ARE KILLING COMPETITION WITH CONTRACTS, OTHER 'CAPTIVE SUPPLY' ARRANGEMENT USDA & Dept. of Justice should immediately begin enforcing antitrust laws, conclude authors 4/28/99 WHITE BEAR LAKE, Minn. Meat packers are robbing the pork industry of its competitiveness through the use of exclusive contracts, formula pricing and other captive supply arrangements, according to a new report released by the Land Stewardship Project (LSP) today. The report, Killing Competition With Captive Supplies, also found that the federal government has failed to implement the legal authority it has to prevent meat packers from shutting independent farmers out of the market. This is particularly troubling considering that between 64 and 70 percent of all hogs sold are no longer part of the open market, and almost 60 percent of the pork slaughter is controlled by four firms (Smithfield Foods, IBP, ConAgra and Cargill), concluded the report. The report is based on interviews with hog farmers from Minnesota, Iowa and South Dakota, as well as an extensive review of the economic literature. LSP was assisted in the interviews by Dakota Rural Action and Iowa Citizens for Community Improvement. The report also includes a legal analysis of the Packers and Stockyards Act. The main findings of Killing Competition With Captive Supplies include: Packers practice of acquiring captive supplies through contracts and direct ownership is reducing the number of opportunities for small- and medium-sized farmers to sell their hogs. Fewer than 30 percent of U.S. hogs are marketed on the open cash market. With fewer buyers and more captive supply, there is less competition for independent farmers hogs and insufficient market information regarding price. Lower prices result. Packer control of the market is pervasive. Farmers reported facing daily what they call a mind game, which they describe as pressure from agricultural leaders to conform to the new factory farm system of hog production. Despite some recent indications of growing interest in addressing the impact of packer concentration and vertical coordination in the livestock markets, the USDA has taken no significant action to reform its trade practices regulations. This last point is particularly troubling to Lynn Hayes, an attorney with Farmers Legal Action Group (FLAG) who wrote the reports legal analysis. For almost three-quarters of a century, the USDAs Grain Inspection and Packers and Stockyards Administration, as well as the U.S. Department of Justice, have had the authority to prevent industries like pork from becoming controlled by a handful of packers, she said. We dont need new laws on the books. We already have ones that address this issue, said Hayes. But the governments failure to use them is making antitrust enforcement a joke. In recent years, Sacred Heart, Minn., hog farmer Rodney Skalbeck has run into the mind game described in the report by other independent producers. For example, in 1994 he received $30 per hundred pounds for a load of hogs he had sold to a local buying station. The manager of the buying station told me that a particular mega-hog operation in the county was receiving $42 per hundredweight at that same time, said Skalbeck. My hogs graded 90 percent number ones, the rest number twos. The manager said some of their hogs graded number threes. They wouldnt even buy number threes from me. Dave Serfling, a crop and livestock farmer from Preston, Minn., said he can produce hogs as efficiently as mega-contract producers, but its frustrating to see larger operators receive significant premiums based on nothing but their size. If I dont have a competitive market to sell those hogs in, it doesnt matter how cheaply I produce quality pork, said Serfling, who markets 700 pigs a year. I simply have to have a place to sell them. Paul Sobocinski, a Wabasso, Minn., farmer who conducted interviews for the study, said he was amazed at the amount of market access independent farmers reported losing just within the past few years. I heard story after story of buying stations being closed without notice and packing plants narrowing the time frame within which they would accept hogs from independent producers, said Sobocinski. Contract hogs from large corporations are filling more and more of the kill slots at these plants. Based on the reports findings, the authors make several recommendations, including: The USDA and the Department of Justice should immediately develop and make public a coordinated plan for consultation, communication, investigation and enforcement of all antitrust laws in the livestock packing and production industries. Regulations should be issued that identify the circumstances under which volume premiums, inconsistent application of grade and yield, use of captive supply contracts and other terms of purchase violate Section 202 of the Packers and Stockyards. The USDA should require packers to report all packer purchases of hogs, including all details of those purchases. USDA and land grant researchers should increase investigation of the impact captive supply procurement has on family farmers. State policy makers should specifically prohibit packers from owning hogs or hog operations in the state. The big packers are using every means at their disposal to take absolute control of the U.S. hog industry, said Mark Schultz, LSPs Policy Program Director. The USDA, under the Clinton-Gore administration, has left the door wide open for this to happen. This has got to change. For a copy of Killing Competition With Captive Supplies, send a check or money order for $6 ($6.39 for Minnesota residents) to: LSP, 2200 4th Street, White Bear Lake, MN 55110; phone: 651-653-0618. That price covers shipping and handling; make checks payable to Land Stewardship Project. ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 16:11:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06192 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA25370 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:50:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA25362 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:50:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Cntraryfmr@aol.com Received: from Cntraryfmr@aol.com (14400) by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7XMYa15892 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <64dea435.2458b234@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:49:24 EDT Subject: Using Diatomaceous Earth for LIvestock To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 216 Reply-To: Cntraryfmr@aol.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 565 Hello, I would like any input from anyone who has used Diatomaceous Earth for parasite control in livestock. I am very interested in trying this for my goats and have heard different reports on the effectiveness of it as a feed additive for internal parasites. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Marcus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 17:22:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA07984 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 17:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA12414 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:19:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12369 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11364 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.207] (term6-19.vta.west.net [205.254.241.211]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BDD00249D3; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:18:52 -0800 To: , , , , From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: WAKE-UP CALL FOR BIOTECH FOODS Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 566 WAKE-UP CALL FOR BIOTECH FOODS Wisconsin State Journal 04/22/99 After years of watching biotechnology top every community college's list of favored careers, I'm glad to see unmistakable signs that, in agriculture at least, the love affair may be stormier than the glossy company brochures predicted. Worldwide, agricultural biotechnologies are encountering problems, and biotechnology companies are scared for good reason. *In Britain, for example, where genetically engineered food labeling is required, poll results last month showed that nine out of 10 shoppers would switch supermarkets and travel considerable distances to avoid such food. *In Japan, 2,300 out of 3,300 local governments have asked the national government to require mandatory labeling of such food. *International outrage has mounted against the "terminator gene" technology, designed to genetically program plants to sterilize themselves. *A major lawsuit challenges corporations' right to even patent genes in food, undercutting the profit potential that has spurred billions of dollars of investments in agricultural biotechnology. *The National Corn Growers Association acknowledges that U.S. corn sales to Europe plunged from nearly 70 million bushels in 1997 to less than 3 million last year because the U.S. crop contained a small amount of genetically engineered corn. *Maybe most astonishing was multinational grain marketer Archer Daniels Midland's recent announcements that it will separately market soybeans that are not genetically engineered and will reject any genetically engineered corn not accepted in Europe. Scientists in this field often dismiss consumer objections to agricultural biotechnologies as hysterical and uninformed, saying that their products have been thoroughly and scientifically tested and are perfectly safe and socially responsible. But consumers have solid reasons for their objections. First, and probably most infuriating to industry researchers, is the issue of genetically engineered foods' effect on human health. Despite researchers' assurances that these foods are perfectly safe, consumers increasingly reject them. In Britain, where soy food allergies rose 50 percent in 1998, consumers are asking whether the culprit was the fact that 32 percent of the U.S. soybean crop that year used Monsanto's genetically engineered Roundup Ready soybeans. Such concerns arise because gene- spliced plants incorporate proteins from a wide variety of species not eaten by humans. Scientific food safety assurances are particularly insufficient in Europe, where consumer confidence was trounced by the emergence of Mad Cow Disease despite scientific and government assurances of food safety. Environmentalists worry about what happens when genetically changed plants cross- pollinate with native species. What happens when wildlife eats genetically engineered plants? How much more herbicide is sprayed when farmers plant Monsanto seed engineered to allow a plant to resist more of Monsanto's popular herbicide Roundup? When Monsanto and other companies took the naturally occurring insecticide bacterium Bacillus thuriengensis (Bt) and spliced its operating mechanism into crops, organic farmers were concerned that insects would quickly become resistant to Bt, removing a crucial tool of environmentally sound farming only to serve corporate interests. These concerns are being borne out in last year's cropping trials. The pervasive objections to genetically engineered food say less about a hysterical public than about the astonishing arrogance of corporate researchers. Why hasn't the biotechnology industry actually asked the public what it wants? Why did researchers and corporate leaders decide that making cheap food would outweigh other consumer concerns? The growing public concerns about agricultural biotechnology are a healthy sign that consumers can use their pocketbooks to tell biotechnology corporations what they should have been asked from the start. U.S. consumers will find it easier to do so when we have the same labeling restrictions that so many European countries have imposed. We should push for them. (Copyright (c) Madison Newspapers, Inc. 1999) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 18:19:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09126 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA02235 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:51:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA02125 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12555 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 16:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.207] (term6-19.vta.west.net [205.254.241.211]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6321424A15; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:51:01 -0800 To: , , , , From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Re: Monsanto (Novartis urges U.S. caution) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 567 Novartis urges U.S. caution on GMO sales WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - A top executive of Swiss life sciences giant Novartis AG warned on Monday that attempts by the United States to force European borders open to genetically modified food products were doomed to failure because of European public resistance. Some agricultural analysts have predicted a trade fight between the United States, which wants to sell genetically modified organisms (GMOs), and European countries that are resisting the products because of fears about their safety. "We are hoping and praying that the U.S. government will not make this into a trade issue, because I can assure you it is not a trade issue," Willy De Greef, the company's head of regulatory and government affairs, told Reuters. "But if tomorrow the WTO (World Trade Organization) would rule that we have to throw our markets open, and the European Union governments would comply with that without doing 10 years of appeals, the issue would not go away," he said. The European Union's regulatory process has halted imports of GMO products, produced mainly by the United States, such as corn or canola genetically altered to produce results like better resistance to insects or tolerance of herbicides. De Greef said Europeans viewed food and food production as a cultural and historical matter and were not as quick as the United States to accept radical technological changes. Retail stores in Britain, where memories of deaths from "mad cow disease" remain fresh, have been labeling GMO foods despite U.S. assurances of their safety. "All the companies, we all owe the public a mea culpa. We have not listened carefully enough," De Greef said at a meeting of agricultural journalists from the United States and Canada. U.S. Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman said earlier the United States and Europe might be heading toward a "major conflict" over sales of beef grown with synthetic hormones. De Greef said Novartis supported GMO labeling. "If the public in a particular country says that for whatever reason it chooses -- be it religious, be it safety, be it ethical -- it wants to have that choice, then we are damned well going to provide the means to have that choice," he said. He forecast it would take five to 10 years for Europeans to accept the products. "Because now there is fear," he said. "There's nothing more difficult to turn around than fear." The United States in February won a world trade dispute that found its "hormone" beef was safe and that Europe must remove its barriers to the meat by mid-May. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Apr 28 23:27:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA14723 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA23219 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:33:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from iac20.navix.net (iac20.navix.net [207.91.5.26]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA23205 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from navix.net (cras45p37.navix.net [206.158.194.167]) by iac20.navix.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA04925; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:39:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3727D6CC.F426B63B@navix.net> Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:49:32 -0700 From: Richard Mazour X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "naos@agron.iastate.edu" , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" , Kate Smith Subject: [Fwd: naos:introduction] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------40CB5FD78C3BB318F3B376A6" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 568 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------40CB5FD78C3BB318F3B376A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------40CB5FD78C3BB318F3B376A6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from iac6.navix.net ([207.91.5.4]) by iac16.navix.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA6182 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:23:28 -0500 Received: from iac10.navix.net (iac10.navix.net [207.91.5.17]) by iac6.navix.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA04878 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:23:27 -0500 Received: from agronmail.agron.iastate.edu (agronmail.agron.iastate.edu [129.186.20.19]) by iac10.navix.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA06652 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:21:33 -0500 Received: by agronmail.agron.iastate.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:20:26 -0500 Received: from iac12.navix.net ([207.91.5.12]) by agronmail.agron.iastate.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id JA2ZHJYD; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:20:15 -0500 Received: from navix.net (cras45p22.navix.net [206.158.194.152]) by iac12.navix.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05216 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:17:11 -0500 Message-ID: <371D8B61.C1CA2460@navix.net> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:25:05 -0700 From: Richard Mazour X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "naos@agron.iastate.edu" Subject: naos:introduction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kate, do I belong in this group? I'm the one who gathers all the ideas and information from others, modifies with more research to fit my 1000 acre organic farm for profit. I have been working ( with great pleasure ) on my model for 37 years. I look across paradise and see so much beauty from working with nature, and yet so much to do. Louis Bromfield"s Pleasant Valley and "My 90 ACRES" was a big influence in what I believe. I've been active in sustainable ag a long time. The formation of NSAS ( Nebraska Sustainable Ag Society ) ,Testified before the House Ag Committee for funding the LISA Program, involved with Rodale and The New Farm Magazine, and promoted sustainable farming in local magazines, newspapers, and radio. I guess I was born with a over active mind filled with ideas, most don't work however I have fun trying on this south central Nebraska farm. Other interests are living a healthy lifestyle, running 5 and 10 K and a marathon amateur radio and aviation. Rich Mazour Rt. 1 Box 27 Deweese, Ne 68934 (402) 262 2245 --------------40CB5FD78C3BB318F3B376A6-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 09:27:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21781 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA18398 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:10:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA18379 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id IAA09990 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:06:21 -0400 From: Klaus Wiegand Subject: Re: Monsanto (Novartis urges U.S. caution) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <199904290809_MC2-73C4-878D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 569 hello beth, BvG>Novartis urges U.S. caution on GMO sales BvG>WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - A top executive of Swiss life BvG>sciences giant Novartis AG warned on Monday that attempts by BvG>the United States to force European borders open to genetically BvG>modified food products were doomed to failure because of BvG>European public resistance. Some agricultural analysts have BvG>predicted a trade fight between the United States, which BvG>wants to sell genetically modified organisms (GMOs), and BvG>European countries that are resisting the products because of BvG>fears about their safety. now that's funny. half a year ago polls showed, that more than half of the swiss people were against gm-food (and as swiss people are known to be conservative to the backbone, they also were against biotechnology in general in their alp country) and that they wanted biotechnology to be banned and research to be forbidden in their country. so there would be one of these famous swiss votes, where even the last "cowboy" living in the highest mountains would find his way down to the valley. you can't imagine the outcry of the industry and the researchers, that noone is allowed to forbid them to do any research they want to do. in short: they behaved, as if they never heard of democratic principles. and it was the same company as mentioned above in the article, that paid millions for public relation campaigns and tried to convince the swiss people by arguments like: "do you know that more than 2% of the working people work in swiss "life science" companies.?" (the government also took heavily on the companies side in parlament debates.. and that industrial states like the swiss and their people cannot accept, that they are run over with products from countries, where research on gentechnology is allowed to run more freely and where is more acceptance for it...) ...which including the whole family would add up to about 6% being dependant of these jobs (not directly said, but in fine insinuations). the vote ended with a miminal plus for the yes- sayers. and now they have the impertinance to tell america, that they might fail in trying to push gm-products on european markets ????? let me ask them: where do they think to sell their research results, which might not be accepted in their own country ?? btw: 2 days ago i visited on rafi's homepage (www.rafi.org) and downloaded their papers "the gene giants" and "terminator technology" just to learn, that ALL the lifescience companies meanwhile have their own patents of "terminators". and more interesting: monsanto/d&p was neither the first to patent such a technology, nor are they the company with the most patents on it (that's another swiss-based company). in THIS case they (unjustly) simply have become the scapegoats for the other "mergers of equal" (which in fact almost none of these merges is, mostly one company is bought by another with more stocks. but as being bought does not sound so nice as mergers of equal, they invented that orwellian "newsspeak". Klaus Wiegand To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 09:34:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21781 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA18398 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:10:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA18379 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id IAA09990 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:06:21 -0400 From: Klaus Wiegand Subject: Re: Monsanto (Novartis urges U.S. caution) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <199904290809_MC2-73C4-878D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 570 hello beth, BvG>Novartis urges U.S. caution on GMO sales BvG>WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - A top executive of Swiss life BvG>sciences giant Novartis AG warned on Monday that attempts by BvG>the United States to force European borders open to genetically BvG>modified food products were doomed to failure because of BvG>European public resistance. Some agricultural analysts have BvG>predicted a trade fight between the United States, which BvG>wants to sell genetically modified organisms (GMOs), and BvG>European countries that are resisting the products because of BvG>fears about their safety. now that's funny. half a year ago polls showed, that more than half of the swiss people were against gm-food (and as swiss people are known to be conservative to the backbone, they also were against biotechnology in general in their alp country) and that they wanted biotechnology to be banned and research to be forbidden in their country. so there would be one of these famous swiss votes, where even the last "cowboy" living in the highest mountains would find his way down to the valley. you can't imagine the outcry of the industry and the researchers, that noone is allowed to forbid them to do any research they want to do. in short: they behaved, as if they never heard of democratic principles. and it was the same company as mentioned above in the article, that paid millions for public relation campaigns and tried to convince the swiss people by arguments like: "do you know that more than 2% of the working people work in swiss "life science" companies.?" (the government also took heavily on the companies side in parlament debates.. and that industrial states like the swiss and their people cannot accept, that they are run over with products from countries, where research on gentechnology is allowed to run more freely and where is more acceptance for it...) ...which including the whole family would add up to about 6% being dependant of these jobs (not directly said, but in fine insinuations). the vote ended with a miminal plus for the yes- sayers. and now they have the impertinance to tell america, that they might fail in trying to push gm-products on european markets ????? let me ask them: where do they think to sell their research results, which might not be accepted in their own country ?? btw: 2 days ago i visited on rafi's homepage (www.rafi.org) and downloaded their papers "the gene giants" and "terminator technology" just to learn, that ALL the lifescience companies meanwhile have their own patents of "terminators". and more interesting: monsanto/d&p was neither the first to patent such a technology, nor are they the company with the most patents on it (that's another swiss-based company). in THIS case they (unjustly) simply have become the scapegoats for the other "mergers of equal" (which in fact almost none of these merges is, mostly one company is bought by another with more stocks. but as being bought does not sound so nice as mergers of equal, they invented that orwellian "newsspeak". Klaus Wiegand To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 09:55:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22445 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11450 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:47:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from newmail.netbistro.com (newmail.netbistro.com [204.239.167.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11418 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6287 invoked by alias); 29 Apr 1999 12:47:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 6276 invoked from network); 29 Apr 1999 12:47:05 -0000 Received: from ip169.netaddr.abccom.bc.ca (HELO paddy) (207.194.220.169) by newmail.netbistro.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 1999 12:47:05 -0000 Message-ID: <001101be923e$e3f0f680$a9dcc2cf@paddy> From: "Paddy" To: "Sanet" Subject: Reply to Marcus RE: diatomaceous earth Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 05:49:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE9204.18A2CEC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 571 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE9204.18A2CEC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marcus With the assistance of the Organic Farming Research Foundation, we = (Dragon Mountain Farm, Quesnel, B.C.) did a small, on-farm study on = alternative parasiticides for the production of organic lamb. The test = was completed by September of 1998 and the results have been published = in The Shepherds Journal (Alberta) and the B.C. Organic Grower (single = copies probably available, coabc@bcgrizzly.com). We did send the = results to The Shepherd, in the US, but the magazine has moved and our = copy was returned. The Organic Farming Research Foundation also has the = results. =20 The short answer to your question is that diatomaceous earth did not = prove to have any effect on infestations of roundworms in feeder lambs. = We were not surprised or disappointed as this was anticipated. Similar = tests published in the New Farm (now defunct I understand) showed no = results. We tested it anyway because it continues to be touted as an = effective worming agent and we wanted to do our best to prove one way or = the other. We are all looking for answers (we had a terrific market for = organic lamb for our flock of 200 ewes before parasites made organic = production impossible) and some are willing to say "I know, I know!" = There is an natural mineral mix on the market which contains amounts of = diatomaceous earth and promotes it's use as a natural wormer. When = contacted they had no test results or any other proof (other than = anecdotal) of it's effectiveness. This is unfortunate. If you want = more details I can send you the results - it's in Word 7.0 . It's not = posted anywhere that I know of but I don't hang around on the Internet = much. =20 Paddy Doherty =20 paddy@quesnelbc.com ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE9204.18A2CEC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Marcus
     
    With the assistance of the Organic = Farming=20 Research Foundation, we (Dragon Mountain Farm, Quesnel, B.C.) did a = small,=20 on-farm study on alternative parasiticides for the production of organic = lamb.  The test was completed by September of 1998 and the results = have=20 been published in The Shepherds Journal (Alberta) and the = B.C.=20 Organic Grower (single copies probably available, coabc@bcgrizzly.com).  We = did send=20 the results to The Shepherd, in the US, but the magazine has = moved and=20 our copy was returned.  The Organic Farming Research Foundation = also has=20 the results.
     
    The = short answer to=20 your question is that diatomaceous earth did not prove to have any = effect on=20 infestations of roundworms in feeder lambs.  We were not surprised = or=20 disappointed as this was anticipated.  Similar tests published in = the New=20 Farm (now defunct I understand) showed no results.  We tested it = anyway=20 because it continues to be touted as an effective worming agent and we = wanted to=20 do our best to prove one way or the other.  We are all looking for = answers=20 (we had a terrific market for organic lamb for our flock of 200 ewes = before=20 parasites made organic production impossible) and some are willing to = say=20 "I know, I know!"  There is an natural mineral mix on the = market=20 which contains amounts of diatomaceous earth and promotes it's use as a = natural=20 wormer.  When contacted they had no test results or any other proof = (other=20 than anecdotal) of it's effectiveness.  This is unfortunate.  = If you=20 want more details I can send you the results - it's in Word 7.0 .  = It's not=20 posted anywhere that I know of but I don't hang around on the Internet=20 much.
     
    Paddy Doherty
     
    paddy@quesnelbc.com
    <= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BE9204.18A2CEC0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 10:27:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23213 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA01177 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:22:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01168 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:23:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Cntraryfmr@aol.com'" Subject: RE: Using Diatomaceous Earth for LIvestock in sanet archives Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:23:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 572 Marcus, Over the years, there have been several discussions on sanet-mg about diatomaceous earth. I searched the sanet archives and came up with the following, which include names of people to contact. There were more hits than those I've listed. To search the archives, start at the SAN home page, http://www.sare.org, click on search, then use the pull-down window to select *search sanet-mg*. Use a search term or two. I used only the word diatomaceous. For more tips on how to search sanet archives, see below. Here is the result of your search using the keyword(s) "diatomaceous": 1: mbox-20: Jeff Martin cc: 116 uses for diatomaceous earth Score: 1000, Size: 1 kbytes, Type: HTML file 2: mbox-15: Diatomaceous earth for internal parasite control Score: 882, Size: 1 kbytes, Type: HTML file 3: mbox-15: Diatomaceous earth as internal parasite control Score: 882, Size: 1 kbytes, Type: HTML file 4: mbox: Re: Use of diatomaceous earth as a vermifuge Score: 823, Size: 1 kbytes, Type: HTML file 5: mbox: Use of diatomaceous earth as a vermifuge Score: 705, Size: 2 kbytes, Type: HTML file 6: mbox: Re: Use of diatomaceous earth as a vermifuge Score: 705, Size: 2 kbytes, Type: HTML file _______________________________ SEARCHING SANET-MG ARCHIVES Subject: Archives of sanet-mg on the Web Sanet-mg: This is the first of several how-to guides to the SAN home page, which can be found at http://www.sare.org The archives of sanet-mg are available for general browsing, or you can search the archive of all messages ever posted to sanet (since October, 1991). To browse the archives, choose sanet-mg from the left side of the home page. Scroll down the next page a bit until you reach the archives. Notice that that messages to sanet are archived in groups (of about 500 messages), with the most recent messages at the top. Select the time period you are interested in. Messages in each *m-box* can be sorted in three ways: 1) sort by date; 2) sort by author; 3) sort by *thread*. 1) Sort by date if you want to read through messages from a set period of time, in the order in which they were posted. 2) Sort by author if you want to a) find a particular message whose author you know or remember; b) read all messages posted by one author; c) find the e-mail address of someone you have seen post to sanet-mg. NOTE that the alphabetization of the sorted list is by first name (mostly). 3) Sort by thread (or topic) if you want to read all the messages posted in response to one original message. The sort by thread uses the subject line of the original message, and collects all responses with the same subject line. SANetters are encouraged to USE THE SUBJECT LINE for all messages posted to sanet-mg. This is a general courtesy to the nearly 800 subscribers, and it facilitates the sorting of messages by *thread*. If you change the subject line, your message will probably NOT be grouped with the original thread, so do so only IF you are changing the thread of the conversation. Remember that a computer is making these decisions based solely on what is included in the subject line of your post. To search the sanet-mg archives, click on SEARCH from the left side of the home page. At the next page, there is a pull-down window displaying the word Everything. Pulling down that window (click on the arrow) will give you several other choices, including search sanet-mg, project reports, everything. Click on sanet-mg to search the archives. You will be prompted to enter search term (s). You can enter one or more terms in the box. As with any search strategy, you will learn that some words give you too many *hits*, so you need to modify your search. You can enter two or more words separated by a space, or you can enter several terms separated by AND or OR. If you use AND, you will limit the messages retrieved to those that contain *both* (all) of your search terms. If you use OR, the messages you retrieve will contain *either* (one or the other) of your search terms. Thus, using AND will usually retrieve fewer messages than using OR. Confused? I have always found this to be counter-intuitive. There are still a few bugs in the system, which we strive to correct as quickly as possibly. You will notice some messages pulled up as *hits* for your search terms that do not seem to fit. Such is the nature of the beast. You can also find the syntax for subscribing and unsubscribing from sanet by clicking on sanet-mg from the home page. So, if you want to unsubscribe while on vacation, check the SAN/SARE home page first, to save the embarassment of sending your unsubscribe message to all 800 of us! You can also tell others how to subscribe by pointing them to SAN on the WWW, or by copying the information and sending it to them. As always, I'm available if you have any questions about using sanet-mg, or accessing the SAN home page. Please do not hesitate to contact me with your questions and comments. Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 10:30:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23254 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04757 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04686 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA09651 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.2.68.82] (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id JAA10759; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:30:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: vberton@pop.wam.umd.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Phil Batalden" From: vberton@wam.umd.edu (Valerie Berton) Subject: Re: tillage after dark Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 573 Phil: USDA's Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program has funded several projects looking at weed control, but one in particular looks at tilling after dark. In 1994, a Cornell scientist received SARE funds to conduct the following project: "Integrating New Cultivation Technology and Photocontrol of Weeds to Reduce Herbicide Use in Vegetables" View a brief summary of results at http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/cgi-win/sare/sare.exe/id=1014 The summary includes contact information for the principal investigator. Through SARE's Sustainable Agriculture Network, (SAN), we published an entire book on weed control, Steel in the Field: a Farmer's Guide to Weed Management Tools. Steel in the Field shows how today's implements and techniques can control weeds while reducing -- or eliminating -- herbicides. See http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/ Valerie > During discussions in our local sustainable/organic group there >have been >people suggesting that the final tillage operation should be done in late >evening or after dark. Weed seeds are light sensitive for germination, and >there will be fewer weeds germinating if the tillage is done in the dark? >Has there been any replicated studies done in this area? Also any farmer >experience that could be shared? > Thank you > Phillip Batalden > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ----------------------------------- Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist 2121 Ag/Life Sciences Surge Bldg. University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742-3358 (301) 405-3186 (301) 314-7373 (fax) vberton@wam.umd.edu http://www.sare.org ----------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 10:36:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23254 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04757 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:31:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04686 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA09651 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.2.68.82] (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id JAA10759; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:30:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: vberton@pop.wam.umd.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Phil Batalden" From: vberton@wam.umd.edu (Valerie Berton) Subject: Re: tillage after dark Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 574 Phil: USDA's Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program has funded several projects looking at weed control, but one in particular looks at tilling after dark. In 1994, a Cornell scientist received SARE funds to conduct the following project: "Integrating New Cultivation Technology and Photocontrol of Weeds to Reduce Herbicide Use in Vegetables" View a brief summary of results at http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu/cgi-win/sare/sare.exe/id=1014 The summary includes contact information for the principal investigator. Through SARE's Sustainable Agriculture Network, (SAN), we published an entire book on weed control, Steel in the Field: a Farmer's Guide to Weed Management Tools. Steel in the Field shows how today's implements and techniques can control weeds while reducing -- or eliminating -- herbicides. See http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/ Valerie > During discussions in our local sustainable/organic group there >have been >people suggesting that the final tillage operation should be done in late >evening or after dark. Weed seeds are light sensitive for germination, and >there will be fewer weeds germinating if the tillage is done in the dark? >Has there been any replicated studies done in this area? Also any farmer >experience that could be shared? > Thank you > Phillip Batalden > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ----------------------------------- Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist 2121 Ag/Life Sciences Surge Bldg. University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742-3358 (301) 405-3186 (301) 314-7373 (fax) vberton@wam.umd.edu http://www.sare.org ----------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 10:57:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23754 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15928 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:52:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15849 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:55:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'csas001@unlvm.unl.edu'" Subject: FW: CSAS Announces Volume 9 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:55:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 575 -----Original Message----- From: Pam Murray [mailto:csas001@unlvm.unl.edu] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 1999 1:18 PM To: san@nal.usda.gov Subject: CSAS Announces Volume 9 Please forward this to sanet for me. Thanks. ****************************** New Publication on Watersheds The Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems at the University of Nebraska has just published Volume 9 in its series of Extension and Education Materials for Sustainable Agriculture. The title of the report is "Facing a Watershed: Managing Profitable and Sustainable Landscapes in the 21st Century." The 261-page volume, edited by Heidi Carter, Richard Olson and Charles Francis, contains materials from the North Central SARE Professional Development Program workshops held in summer 1998. Below is a condensed version of the editors' introduction and the report sections. ////////////////////////////////////// Introduction: The watershed is a place within which a sustainable agriculture can take root. Sustainable agriculture is based upon a knowledge of place, of the particular soils, plants, climate, and people that comprise a farm and community and landscape of which the farm is a part. Without local knowledge, places erode-literally, in the movement of soil from fields to streams, and figuratively, in the decay of community, and the alienation of different groups of people. Americans are increasingly transient, rarely living in one place long enough to come to know it or to care about it. Ian McHarg refers to a generation of "asphalt people" with no knowledge of natural systems and processes. Not everyone has accepted this loss of local knowledge and a sense of place. Volume 9 contains many stories of people who have reconnected with their watersheds and in so doing strengthened their agriculture, environment, and communities. From their successes, failures, and hard-won lessons comes a tool kit for educating, facilitating, and organizing. Report Sections: Overview of Freshwater Use, Introduction to Watershed Management, and a Watershed Management Plan Group Dynamics in Designing and Implementing a Watershed Management Plan Information Sources for Watershed Management Conservation Buffers and Riparian Management Farmland Protection, Green Corridors, and Suburban Sprawl Information Sources for Sustainable Agriculture and Sustainable Agriculture Education To order, send a check payable to the University of Nebraska for $10.00 US (note it is for Volume 9) to: Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, U. Nebraska, PO Box 830949, Lincoln, NE 68583-0949. (Price includes s&h in U.S.; for air book rate to Canada, add $5; air rate to other countries, check with the CSAS office - this applies to all volumes in the series). For questions, contact the CSAS office, 402-472-2056, csas003@unlvm.unl.edu. Chapter contents of Volume 9 as well as information on other publications of the CSAS can be found at http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas/reports.htm. For content questions about Volume 9, contact co-editor Heidi Carter in the CSAS office, csas007@unlvm.unl.edu. *********************** Pam Murray, Coordinator Center for Grassland Studies and Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems PO Box 830949 University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 phone: 402-472-9383 fax: 402-472-4104 e-mail: csas001@unlvm.unl.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 10:59:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23791 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18253 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:55:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18117 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:58:13 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: EAT A REAL TOMATO Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:58:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 576 NEWS RELEASE For immediate Release For more information: April 20, 1999 Kristen Markley/ PASA 814-349-9856 EAT A REAL TOMATO Supporting local and sustainable producers in Pennsylvania is the emphasis of promotional cards developed by Pennsylvania Association for Sustainable Agriculture (PASA). Attractive and concise, these "Eat a Real Tomato" cards are being used by producers at farmers markets, through CSAs (Community Supported Agriculture farms), and other markets to educate customers on the benefits of supporting local and sustainable producers. The three-color cards are 4" x 9" and fit easily into a counter display holder. There is space on the card for producers to stamp their farm name or market to remind customers where to go for great food. PASA is a statewide, non-profit organization dedicated to elevating the economic vitality of farms in Pennsylvania through farm-based educational programs, an annual conference, a quarterly newsletter, and networks for producers to market local and sustainably produced foods. PASA created the Eat a Real Tomato cards to enhance producers' marketing efforts. Partnership funding for this brochure was provided by the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture's Agriculture Product Promotion Matching Grant Program and PASA. The Eat a Real Tomato cards outline the taste, economic, and environmental benefits to a community where consumers support local and sustainable farmers. # more # The cards describe the superior quality of foods that are delivered straight from the farm to the table. Since consumers are paying only for the food itself and not all the packaging, transportation and "middlemen," locally produced foods are a better value for one's money. Buying local foods and preserving farmland go hand in hand. Sustainable is defined as farmers who "strive to reduce the use of chemical insecticides, herbicides and fertilizers, replacing them with natural alternatives and ecological balance." The Eat a Real Tomato cards are available in packs of 100. 1-5 packs are $5/ pack plus $4 shipping and handling. More than 5 packs are $4/ pack & $5 shipping and handling. Call for shipping and handling for more than 14 packs. Contact PASA for free samples or for further information. Make checks payable to "PASA," indicate how many packs you are purchasing, and mail to: PASA Eat a Real Tomato PO Box 419 Millheim, PA 16854 814-349-9856 -end- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 11:53:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24874 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15243 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:42:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15235 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.31] (gl-ppp11.hevanet.com [204.119.60.31]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA21409; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904291442.HAA21409@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:44:31 -0700 Subject: FW: Research Helps Midwest Farmers Expand into New Markets From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 577 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Research Helps Midwest Farmers Expand into New Markets Date: Thu, Apr 29, 1999, 6:56 AM NEWS RELEASE: Research Helps Midwest Farmers Expand into New Markets ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov April 29, 1999 ----------- WASHINGTON, April 29--Growing nitrogen-fixing alfalfa is not only good for the soil, but it also may help Midwest farmers reap economic benefits and supply materials for new industrial uses. Richard G. Koegel, an agricultural engineer with USDA's Agricultural Research Service in Madison, Wisconsin, and University of Wisconsin researchers are the first scientists to make lactic acid from alfalfa. Lactic acid, now used in foods as a flavoring or preservative, could become a key ingredient in biodegradable plastics, Koegel said. "Producing quality products from agricultural crops without depleting our land is the cornerstone of sustainable agriculture for all farmers--big and small," says ARS administrator Floyd P. Horn. "Sustainable agriculture helps farmers put more money in their pockets and less into production costs for fertilizers and pesticides." Alfalfa is valuable in sustainable agriculture because it fixes its own nitrogen. That means farmers don't have to add nitrogen fertilizer, thus saving money. Previous ARS studies have demonstrated that farmers can reap higher yields of corn and soybeans when they plant those crops in rotation with alfalfa. Extracting lactic acid from alfalfa would give farmers added incentive to grow the crop. Lactic acid is now made synthetically with chemicals or organically as a byproduct of corn fermentation. More than half of the U.S. lactic acid market--about 50,000 tons--is currently imported. Koegel has devised a method for making lactic acid from alfalfa fiber, which is left after the juice is extracted from fresh herbage. His laboratory trials have produced yields of lactic acid as high as 60 percent. Koegel is based at the U.S. Dairy Forage Research Center on the campus of the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Cooperative research between ARS and the University of Wisconsin has also produced industrially valuable enzymes from transgenic alfalfa. After extracting the juice from fresh herbage, the researchers have made other high-value products, including food- and feed-grade proteins, and nutritionally valuable substances called carotenoids. All these products from alfalfa have a value between $1,000 to $2,000 per acre annually. A story about the lactic acid research appears in the May issue of Agricultural Research, ARS' monthly magazine. The article is available on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/acid0599.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Richard G. Koegel, ARS U.S. Dairy Forage Research Center, Madison, Wis., 53706, phone (608) 264-5149, fax (608) 264-5275, rgkoegel@facstaff.wisc.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 14:44:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00873 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA19855 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:32:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19737 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool013-max11.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.213]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id JXN1WXFS; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:32:08 -0400 Message-ID: <372896EF.9D2B0F1D@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:29:19 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com>, Sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: Urgent Alert: CDFA Threatens Certified Farmers' Markets program!] References: <199904281422_MC2-73B7-1477@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 578 Yes it did violate my request, and I am sorry for that - I wasn't on my usual machine, so wasn't paying attention to the forwarding settings- ooops- phil gillman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Apr 29 16:10:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04074 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA01926 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:53:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA01815 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07449 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.234] (term6-25.vta.west.net [205.254.241.217]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 71EBB24ADF; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:46:49 -0800 To: , , , , , , From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Monsanto wins 'Roger' Award Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 579 Organisers of the award can be contacted at: gattwd@corso.ch.planet.gen.nz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Roger Award Media Release from Corso Monsanto Wins Roger Award For Worst Transnational Corporation In NZ; Tranz Rail, Fletcher Challenge, Business Round Table Also Win The panel of judges for the Award was: Sukhi Turner, Mayor of Dunedin, Annette Sykes, Ngati Pikiao lawyer and Treaty activist, Moana Jackson, Director, Nga Kaiwhakamarama I Nga Ture (Maori Legal Service), and Maxine Gay, President, NZ Trade Union Federation. Sukhi Turner is announcing the Award at a function at 8pm today at the Trade Union Centre, 199 Armagh St, Christchurch. Tonight's award ceremony, organised by Corso, GATT Watchdog, and the Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa is part of a programme of events opposed to the APEC meetings currently taking place in Christchurch. The annual award is given to the transnational corporation judged to have had the most negative impact in New Zealand in each or all of the following fields: unemployment; monopoly; profiteering; abuse of workers/conditions; political interference; environmental damage; cultural imperialism; impact on tangata whenua; pursuing an ideological crusade; impact on women, and health and safety of workers and the public. An excerpt from the judges' report reads: "This US corporate giant is not only seeking to control and monopolise the production of agricultural produce in the global economy, it is also responsible for promoting research and development on a wide range of genetically engineered products that have the potential to irreversibly alter and damage the ecosystem of the planet and the food supply of future generations. This threat needs to be taken seriously by New Zealanders as Monsanto is already petitioning the Environmental Risk Management Agency (ERMA) to grow genetically modified Canola over several hundred hectares on North Canterbury and Southland farms to produce seeds for the Canadian market. Perhaps more worrying is the establishment of a Crown Institute/Monsanto quango, Gene Pool, with the backing of the Royal Society (representing the scientific establishment) to campaign for New Zealand to become a site in the development of genetic engineering. Such a strategy is also backed by Federated Farmers of New Zealand. It seems that just as the 1980s saw New Zealand become the testing ground for neo-liberalism or 'Rogernomics,' so the country is to become a laboratory for genetically modified organisms GMOs) in the 21st century, the effects of which could be devastating for the environment, food supply, and population." The judges also gave Fletcher Challenge a 'dishonourable award' because of "the negative impact of the company's forestry and pulp and paper operations in the Central North Island which have inflicted so much damage on indigenous communities... [D]espite claims to the contrary, the sale of the former ForestCorp has led to many job losses in communities such as Rotorua, Kaingaroa, and Taupo". Tranz Rail receives a 'continuity award' for "the company's persistent failure to address its appalling safety record, for which it received the inaugural 1997 Roger Award". The other finalists were Independent Newspapers Ltd (INL), Carter Holt Harvey, and Telecom. Leigh Cookson, a spokeswoman for the Roger Award organisers, said: "In the year that the government hosts APEC (Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation), it is well worth noting that Monsanto actively participates in APEC's Agricultural Technical Cooperation Experts' Group Committee, especially in its biotechnology workshops. APEC is just one of the tools being used to expand the rights of corporations like Monsanto to maximise their profits regardless of the costs to peoples and the environment. The Roger Award is one way to hold big business accountable and generate some much needed debate about the role of transnational corporations in New Zealand". The three organisations behind the Roger Award have also created a new "Collaborator's Award" for the New Zealand individual or organisation which has collaborated most with transnational corporations. "The inaugural award goes to the the local mouthpiece for the interests of global capital in New Zealand, the Business RoundTable, for its ongoing political interference and its advocacy of profit-first, people-last policies at national and local government level," says Ms Cookson. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 30 09:10:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA19570 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA25389 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:34:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA25333 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:30:16 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: hog contracts Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:30:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 580 I am forwarding this message from Bill Liebhardt RE: the hog contracts discussion. Andy > From Bill Liebhardt > > Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:04:17 -0700 > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > From: Bill Liebhardt > Subject: hog contracts > > This report in my opinion shows how unsustainable and undemocratic this > system is. It is about corporate greed and the institutions that are > supposed to protect and enforce laws looking the other way or not enforcing > laws that are on the books. You have to wonder why this is so. Is it > because little people do not write campaign checks? Where is the press on > this? Where are the representatives and senators on this? Are they all > bought off. We can all do lots of good sustainable ag research but the > power of money and so called free markets is the overriding theme of the > times. But free markets as these are now constituted are not fair markets. > > There are a lot more small producers than large-maybe they have to raise > more hell along with their pigs. I know farmers do not want to get into > that kind of thing generally but how long are they going to take this kind > of unfair whipping at the hand of big pork, big corporations and big > government that apparently looks the other way or actually creates > conditions that favor this kind of activity. I think they will not have a > chance by doing what they do-producing low cost pork, because the system is > rigged against them. They need political action and they need to make some > politicians dam uncomfortable. > > I would hope that those of you working on this issue would help to organize > some efforts that would take a long term view on getting the govt. to get > off their collective butts and get some action on the anti trust area. > > Good work on producing this report-it provides a basis to get moving. > > My thoughts at this time. > > Bill Liebhardt To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 30 10:45:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21730 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07728 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:48:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from agnus.ag.ncat.edu (agnus.ag.ncat.edu [152.8.33.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07724 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from talbottc.ncat.edu (unverified [152.8.6.70]) by agnus.ag.ncat.edu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:55:34 -0400 Message-ID: <003801be9318$187b8940$46060898@talbottc.ncat.edu> Reply-To: "Charles W. Talbott" From: "Charles W. Talbott" To: "SANET" Subject: Positon available with Small Scale Swine Research Program Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:45:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 581 Emphasis of research is in developing sustainable methodologies to enhance small producer profitability. The primary responsibilities of the Swine Unit Manager focus on undergraduate and graduate instruction, research and community service. The individual is responsible for assisting in design, implementation, and analysis of swine research projects. He/she is responsible for the day to day operation and management of a 160-sow confinement facility as well as an outdoor, integrated crop/animal system. For more information contact: Dr. Charles Talbott NC A&T SU 101 Webb Hall Greensboro, NC 27411 (336) 334-7672; E-mail TalbottC@ncat.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 30 14:58:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27076 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA10652 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:47:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10615 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.209] (br-ppp03.hevanet.com [198.5.254.209]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA04243; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904301447.HAA04243@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:49:33 -0700 Subject: FW: New Plant May Help Thwart Grass Tetany From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: New Crops , SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 582 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Plant May Help Thwart Grass Tetany Date: Fri, Apr 30, 1999, 6:37 AM STORY LEAD: New Plant May Help Thwart Grass Tetany ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov April 30, 1999 ----------- A new tall fescue grass called "HiMag" may help protect cattle, sheep, goats and deer from an affliction known as grass tetany. When ruminants--that is, animals with four stomachs--have too little magnesium in their blood, grass tetany can result. Also known as hypomagnesemia, grass tetany often is fatal. It causes an estimated $50 to $150 million in livestock production losses each year in the United States. American pastureland has more tall fescue than any other forage grass. And because the new variety is unusually high in magnesium, it should help protect vulnerable animals from magnesium deficiencies. Plans call for HiMag seed to be made available to plant breeders this year, according to ARS soil scientist Henry F. Mayland at the ARS Northwest Irrigation and Soils Research Laboratory at Kimberly, Idaho. Mayland developed HiMag tall fescue with Glenn E. Shewmaker--formerly with ARS and now with the University of Idaho--and David A. Sleper and colleagues at the University of Missouri, Columbia. The idea of breeding a high-magnesium forage grass to combat grass tetany isn't new. But the ARS scientists and their university co-researchers are the first to accomplish that with tall fescue. They recommend HiMag for rain-fed pastures in eastern, southeastern and Pacific Northwestern States and British Columbia. So far, it has been tested in Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Missouri, New York, Texas, Utah and Virginia as well as in Canada. An article in the April issue of the ARS monthly journal, Agricultural Research, tells more. View it on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr99/himag0499.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Henry F. Mayland, ARS Northwest Irrigation and Soils Research Laboratory, Kimberly, Idaho, phone (208) 423-6562, fax (208) 423-6555, mayland@kimberly.ars.pn.usbr.gov, http://kimberly.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 30 14:58:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27080 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25776 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:58:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25703 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:02:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Ten Years of SARE on the Web (continued) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:01:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 583 Colleagues: This month we continue our chapter-by-chapter posting of Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress. It is available on the Web at http://www.sare.org/san/10yrsofsan/ OR go to our home page and click on Publications. http://www.sare.org/ Ten Years of SARE showcases accomplishments of a unique USDA program that has made a difference in the lives of farmers and ranchers across the United States and Island Protectorates. To select a group of innovative, interesting and impactful projects, SARE staff chose one project from each of its four regions for the following 10 categories: Crop Production, Animal Production, Natural Resource Protection, Marketing, Community Development, Education, Pest Management, Horticulture, Professional Development, and Integrated Farm/Ranch Systems. One of the 10 categories will be highlighted each of the next 10 months. May Highlight: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT For a free print version, contact me via e-mail or use the contact information below. Be sure to send your mailing address. Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 30 15:10:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA27367 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA12237 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:21:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12164 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:24:17 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "Wallace Institute (E-mail)" Subject: Alternative Agriculture News, 5/99 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:24:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 584 May, 1999 Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, #117 Greenbelt, MD 20770 (301) 441-8777 E-mail: hawiaa@access.digex.net World Wide Web: http://www.hawiaa.org * * * If You Are Interested in Sustainable Agriculture... In addition to this monthly newsletter, the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture publishes the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, a quarterly, peer-reviewed journal of research on alternative agriculture. It is a scientific forum for disseminating technical, economic, and social research findings about the character and requirements of alternative agriculture systems. A comparison of alternative pest and soil management strategies for Maine potato production systems is featured in the new issue (Volume 13, No. 4). Other articles cover a comparison of conventional and organic apple production systems during three years of conversion to organic management in coastal California, and the response of corn, soybean, and wheat crops to fertilizer and herbicides in Ohio compared with low-input production practices. Subscriptions to AJAA are $44 for libraries; $24 for individuals; and $12 for students; contact the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Road, #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; e-mail hawiaa@access.digex.net Table of Contents New Study Identifies Success Strategies for Natural Foods Market, p. 1 European Protest on Biotech Food Get Results, p. 2 USDA Launches Small Farm Campaign with Sustainable Ag Emphasis, p. 3 Positions, p. 3 USDA Criticizes for Role in Developing "Terminator" Seeds, p. 4 Successful Small Farmers Make the Most of Each Acre, p. 4 Resources, p. 4 Upcoming Events, p. 5 NEW STUDY IDENTIFIES SUCCESS STRATEGIES FOR NATURAL FOODS MARKET The natural foods market is growing exponentially, but can only reach its full potential if it makes strong connections with the mass market foods industry, according to a new report from the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture entitled The Natural Foods Market: A National Survey of Strategies for Growth. The mass market foods industry, in turn, must discover how it can integrate natural foods into existing operations, the report concludes. The report reveals the results of the Institute's 1998 Natural Foods Market Survey, which interviewed about 300 food industry businesses, including farmers, manufacturers, wholesalers, and retail supermarkets. The report analyzes current trends and major obstacles, as well as successful business strategies in the natural foods market. The retail market for natural foods is growing at five times the rate of the total retail food market. "The natural foods market has the potential to make a positive impact on the environment and consumers' health and well-being," said Nessa Richman, the report's author, "but growing the market smart is just as important as growing the market fast in the long term." Three major obstacles to success for the natural foods market are, according to the report: C There are no widely accepted standards for defining and producing natural foods. C Natural foods and mass market foods companies view the natural foods market and conduct business in critically different ways. C Many natural foods and mass market foods businesses do not have the information they need to market and price natural foods. While some of these obstacles will fade as the natural foods market matures, several public policy actions could enhance the market's potential benefit to private and public interests. They include developing commonly recognized standards for natural foods, collecting market and price information for natural foods, and creating generic marketing channels for natural foods. Several strategies employed by natural and mass market foods companies are leading to success in the natural foods market for some market segments, among them developing a natural foods label, hiring special staff for natural foods, and increasing the scale of their natural foods operations, according to the report. The report highlights several public policy themes that are important to success in the natural foods market, including: C The natural foods market must be afforded the same type of assistance that the mass market foods enjoy, in relation to implementation of standards and minimally necessary regulations. C Mass market channels need to be cleared of obstacles that limit access for natural foods businesses. C Systematic processes for tracking the natural foods market must be put into place. With the goal of helping the natural foods market reach its full potential, the report makes recommendations for government agencies, trade organizations, research and education institutions, and industry members. The Natural Foods Market is available for $150 (non-profit rate available upon request) from the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Road, #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; an Executive Summary is available at no cost. EUROPEAN PROTESTS ON BIOTECH FOOD GET RESULTS The waves of protests in Europe against the planting and use of genetically engineered food "appear to be working" as several fast food outlets and supermarket chains in England "promised to eliminate genetically modified foods and ingredients from their product lines," according to an article in The Washington Post (April 24, 1999). "Those moves are alarming farmers and distributors in the United States, the leading producer of gene-altered foods, where regulatory agencies have deemed gene-modified crops 'substantially equivalent' to traditional crops and where consumers - knowingly or not - consume large quantities of engineered food every day." In Europe, however, "massive negative reaction" is drawing attention to "lingering scientific uncertainties about the risks of agricultural biotechnology," and British consumer organizations are calling for a five-year moratorium on commercial planting of gene-altered crops. USDA LAUNCHES SMALL FARM CAMPAIGN WITH SUSTAINABLE AG EMPHASIS The USDA last month launched an education campaign for small farmers that will provide "information to producers on sustainable agriculture practices that can help farmers succeed," according to the agency. The SARE program is overseeing the campaign, "Farming for Profit, Stewardship & Community," in an effort to implement the recommendations of the National Commission on Small Farms. The campaign will provide 10 "tipsheets" that include tips and relevant resources available about those tips for producers and USDA employees. The 10 tipsheets provide resources to: Improve soil quality; add value through marketing; prevent pest problems; explore organic production; cut livestock costs; manage weeds wisely; plan for profit; network; diversify crops; and use trees. For copies of the tipsheet, see http://www.sare.org/san/tipsheet/index.htm or contact Valerie Berton in the SARE program, (301) 405-3186; e-mail vberton@wam.umd.edu. POSITIONS North Carolina State University seeks a Head, Department of Crop Science, College of Agriculture and Life Sciences; contact Dr. T.J. Monaco, Crop Science Head Search Committee, Department of Horticultural Science, Campus Box 7609, NCSU, Raleigh, N.C. 27695-7609; (919) 515-3131; e-mail tom_monaco@ncsu.edu National Catholic Rural Life Conference seeks several positions: Rural Life Community Organizer, Communications Coordinator, Rural Life Policy Coordinator, and Rural Pastoral Life Coordinator; send resume or written inquiries only to Executive Director, NCRLC, 4625 Beaver Avenue, Des Moines, IA 50310. Codman Community Farms, Inc. seeks a farm manager; send resume or inquiries to Search Committee, Codman Community Farms, c/o Lindsay Clemens, 24 Hillside Road, Lincoln, MA 01773. Institute for Local Self-Reliance seeks an Executive Director; send resume, three references, and cover letter to ILSR Director Search, 1313 5th St., SE, Minneapolis, MN 55414. University of Maine seeks an Assistant Professor, Sustainable Crop Production, and an Assistant Professor, Weed Ecology & Management; send cover letter, vitae, transcripts, and three references to Dr. Gregory Porter, Department of Plant, Soil & Environmental Sciences, 5722 Deering Hall, University of Maine, Orono, ME 04469-5722; e-mail Porter@maine.edu USDA CRITICIZED FOR ROLE IN DEVELOPING "TERMINATOR" SEEDS The criticism of the "terminator" plant technology that makes plant seeds sterile includes denunciation of the USDA because of its role as co-sponsor of the research that led to the development of the technology, according to a story in The New York Times (April 19, 1999). A researcher in the USDA's Lubbock, Texas, research station worked on the concept with funds from the Delta and Pine Land Company, a cottonseed producer, resulting in "withering criticism and thousands of angry letters for [the USDA's] role as a co-sponsor with Delta." Critics of the technology see it as a threat to farmers' security, and "protests have ranged from angry letters to torched research crops....Monsanto, which has a pending agreement with Delta, has become so alarmed by the anti-biotechnology feelings stirred by the sterility technology that it wants a thorough, clearly independent international review of the costs and benefits of the technology and related inventions," according to the article. In addition, critics say that because the new technology is switched on by spraying with chemicals just before the seed is planted, the seeds would make farmers ever more reliant on chemical companies. "The fact that Mr. Oliver [of the USDA] and his research team have yet to prove the concept works in field crops has become an almost irrelevant footnote,"the story adds. SUCCESSFUL SMALL FARMERS MAKE THE MOST OF EACH ACRE Small farmers increase their chances of prosperity when they incorporate available options and alternatives that allow them to make the most of each acre, according to an article in The Furrow (Spring, 1999). One Iowa farmer "rather than compete for additional acres...modified his operation to meet changing consumer demands. Switching part of his corn and soybean acreage to organic production has given him access to additional markets, and boosted his profit." He grows alfalfa to provide adequate nitrogen for his corn, and rotates his crops. With 60 acres now certified organic, he hopes to convert another 100 acres in the next few years. Another poultry farmer feeds his chickens in portable coops that are easier to move to fresh pasture, and another farming family expanded their pumpkin crop to include apples "to add color and cash to their fall harvest." RESOURCES National Organic Directory is $47.95 plus $3.20 shipping from Community Alliance with Family Farmers, P.O. Box 363, Davis, CA 95617; 1-800-852-3832. "Eat A Real Tomato" promotional cards for markets are available in packs of 100 for $5 plus $4 shipping from Pennsylvania Association for Sustainable Agriculture, P.O. Box 419, Millheim, PA 16854; (814) 349-9856. "Hot Peppers and Parking Lot Peaches: Evaluating Farmers' Markets in Low Income Communities" is $10 plus $2 shipping from Community Food Security Coalition, P.O. Box 209, Venice, CA 90294; (310) 822-5410. "Managing Cover Crops Profitably, 2nd Edition" is $19 from Sustainable Agriculture Publications, Hills Building, University of Vermont, Burlington, VT 05405-0082. "Cover Cropping In Vineyards: A Grower's Handbook" is $20 plus shipping and tax from University of California, DANR Communication Services, 6701 San Pablo Ave., Oakland, CA 94608-1239; 1-800-994-8849 or (510) 642-2431. University of California Web site offers news and notices about agriculture, natural resources, family and consumer sciences, and youth issues, at http://danr.ucop.edu/news "Educational and Training Opportunities in Sustainable Agriculture" is available from Alternative Farming Systems Information Center, National Agricultural Library, Room 304, 10301 Baltimore Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705-2351; (301) 504-6559; e-mail afsic@nal.usda.gov; on the Internet, http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic UPCOMING EVENTS May 25, conference on exotic pests and diseases, sponsored by the University of California Agricultural Issues Center, will be held in Sacramento; contact the Center at (530) 752-2320; e-mail agissues@ucdavis.edu May 28-30, "The Agrarian Mind in an Industrial World -- The Industrial Mind in an Agrarian World," Prairie Festival 1999, will be held in Salina, KS; contact the Land Institute, (785) 823-5376; e-mail theland@midkan.com May 31-June 2, Natural Products Expo Europe will be held in Amsterdam, the Netherlands; contact New Hope International Media, (303) 939-8440; on the Internet, http://www.naturalproductexpo.com June 3-6, the joint meetings of the Agriculture, Food, and Human Values Society and the Association for the Study of Food and Society will be held in Toronto, Canada; contact Elias Chu, (416) 979-5135; e-mail echu@acs.ryerson.ca June 4-6, June 11-13, June 18-20, and June 25-27, "Planting the Future" will be held in Rutland, OH; contact United Plant Savers, P.O. Box 98, East Barre, VT 05649; (802) 479-9825; e-mail info@plantsavers.org June 6-9, "Keep America Growing: Balancing Working Lands and Development," sponsored by USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service and others, will be held in Philadelphia, PA; contact conference coordinator at (802) 655-7769; e-mail delaney@together.net June 7-9, "Eco 1999" will be held in Paris, France; contact Convergences-Eco '99, phone 33 (0) 1 43 64 77 77; e-mail convergences@convergences.fr June 9-12, "Third National Workshop on Constructed Wetlands/BMPs for Nutrient Reduction and Coastal Water Protection" will be held in New Orleans, LA; contact Dr. Frank Humenik, Box 7927, North Carolina State University, Raleigh, N.C. 27695; (919) 515-6767; e-mail frank_humenik@ncsu.edu June 11-13, "What Works, What Doesn't?," the 1999 Community Research Network Conference, will be held in Amherst, MA; contact the Loka Institute, (413) 559-5860; e-mail loka@amherst.edu June 19-22, Bread for the World's National Gathering will be held in Washington, D.C.; contact Michelle Sinkgraven, 1-800-82-BREAD, ext. 219; e-mail national.gathering@bread.org June 22-25, Fuel Ethanol Workshop and Trade Show will be held in Cedar Rapids, IA; contact Bryan & Bryan Inc., 5015 Red Gulch Road, Cotopaxi, CO 81223; (719) 942-4353; e-mail etoh85@aol.com June 24-26, classes on "Chicken Tractors" and "Free Range Turkeys" will be held in Buena Vista, VA; contact Andy Lee, Good Earth Farm School, (540) 261-8775. June 24-25, "Better Ways to Develop Ohio" will be held in Columbus, OH; information is available on the Internet at http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~landuse/conference June 24-26, "Sheep Is Life" will be held in Tsaile, AZ; contact Sheep Is Life/Recursos, 826 Camino de Monte Rey, A3, Santa Fe, N.M. 87505; 1-800-732-6881; e-mail recursos@aol.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 30 15:13:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA27424 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA11438 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:33:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11417 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:36:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Food Security, Pesticides & Environment Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:36:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 585 SANet: I don't remember seeing this newsletter posted to sanet before. FYI and there's contact information at the end of the message. Andy Clark, SAN Coordinator -----Original Message----- From: aslam umrani [mailto:agr726@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 1999 9:27 PM To: ecol-agric@mailbase.ac.uk Cc: agric-econ@mailbase.ac.uk; rural@mailbase.ac.uk; nordic@mailbase.ac.uk Subject: Food Security, Pesticides & Environment ************************************************************ S L A P Sustainable Livestock & Agriculture Production Bimonthly-Newsletter May & June 1999 of Progressive Agriculturist &Pastoralist Association http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/3770/ ************************************************************** Content: Food Security Pesticides Use IPM as a tool Nutrient cycling *********************************************************** Food Security and Environment: Special Report Food security can be defined as the state in which all persons obtain a nutritionally adequate, culturally acceptable diet at all times through local non-emergency sources. Food security broadens the traditional concepts of hunger, embracing a systemic view of the causes of hunger and poor nutrition within a community while identifying the changes necessary to prevent their occurrence. Food security programs confront hunger and poverty. In many cases, the environmental price of food production is the loss of natural vegetation and biological diversity, soil erosion, and surface and groundwater depletion. Inevitably, there are divergent views about how land should be used, whether for industrial crops, food, nature conservation or industry. These conflicts exist for coastal and inland areas and common property resources such as forests, grazing lands and even oceans. Clearly defined procedures are needed to satisfy different needs and interests in society, not only of current generations but also taking into account future needs. This means involving stakeholders, farmers, local land managers, non-governmental and governmental organisations, consumers and others, and evaluating the environmental costs of different land use options. Democratic structures and public opinion on environmental issues help to identify preferences and set appropriate land use goals, including the need for access to food, and an adequate diet for a healthy, active life. Transformation of current and future food production systems requires a land or resource-use planning approach and the formulation of explicit goals for alternative land uses. Planning is also necessary to define incentives for sustainable use, and to promote changes of attitude and values toward improved land use options. Today's severe pressure on marine fish stocks is an example of how misguided policy and lack of planning can lead to indiscriminate use of a common natural resource. Particularly in Sindh, Pakistan, political and bureaucratic sharks have engulfed the marine resources of province on the name of so-called development. A consensus exists among non-governmental sector of the Pakistan that new approaches should be adopted for economic development with emphasis on food security, social development and environmental security. These approaches enable to reduce poverty and save the environment of Pakistan. Attainment of Sustainable-Development, however, calls for an urgent reversal of the current trends requiring: 1. Sustainable increases in agricultural productivity. 2. Harmonising population growth with the level of food production. 3. Better stewardship of the environment. 4. Better and equitable use of water. 5. Utilisation of Science and Technology in the promotion of Food Security and Sustainable Development. 6. Consciously integrating the environmental concerns into mainstream economic thinking and to reflect these concerns in the design and implementation of development programmes. 7. Develop indicators for the evaluation of development programs and policies achieving agricultural, demographic and environmental transitions. Experience has shown that countries in which there is good governance reap the benefits through more stable and sustainable economic growth. This involves promoting dialogue with all interest groups and sharing decision-making authority and control over resource allocation to district and local levels. A more enlightened role of government also implies working side-by-side with NGOs, farmers' associations and the private sector. The marginalisation of women from decisions and resources also has numerous negative effects on food production. Government is in the best position to assist women in sensitising them to environmental concerns by promoting interventions that improve their access to education and training, energy resources, and credit. Government must undertake the complex and difficult tasks of land tenure reform, channelling investment towards rural areas and enacting supporting policies that reflect a national ethic of sustainable development, reflecting, in turn, their circumstances. Present definitions of economic viability primarily consider productivity and profitability. They do not take into account sustainability. Neither are the costs of harmful effects on the environment included in the System of National Accounts, which countries use to measure their net economic gains and losses. The loss of environmental goods and services is particularly detrimental to poorer countries, whose economies are more dependent on natural resources and are thus more vulnerable to their loss. Intensive effort is needed to strengthen and test methodologies for national environmental accounting. This includes pricing the costs of soil and water degradation, of depletion of plant nutrients, loss of forest cover and biological diversity, practices that are economically and environmentally unsustainable. The environmental costs of producing different crops (i.e. the potential pollution or resource degradation intensity) also needs to be calculated in order to understand the conditions required for successful production. For example, agricultural income has to be adjusted to allow for various kinds of environmental damage, such as soil erosion, acidity, salinity and loss of plant nutrients, that arise from food production. Sustainable food security: requirements for a new era: The understanding of food security has evolved over the years through increasingly integrated attention to the social, gender, environmental, technical and economic dimensions of the problem. The challenge for the future will be to develop a peaceful, stable political, social and economic environment for Sustainable-Development. Also full and equal participation of men and women are also important for obtaining a food security and sustainable development ********************************************************************** Problems Associated with Pesticide Use & Misuse By: Dr Mushtaq Hussain Jokhio ********************************************************************** Pesticides are mainly used to control and eradicate disease vectors of desirable plant species, which in turn improve agricultural productivity. In today's world, particularly in developing countries, the use of pesticides have become so important that they are linked with improvement of human welfare (Otter et al., 1980). Because the losses of crops caused by pests are higher in developing countries, specifically under mono-cropping systems. Despite all the benefits of pesticides, there is world-wide concern about their use, because pesticides injure non-target organisms, such as human, livestock, wildlife, insects, birds, fish and plants. According to Monbray (1988) 600,000 tonnes of pesticides are exported to developing countries. Studies have shown that less than 0.1% of applied pesticides actually reach the targeted pests and remaining 99.9% have potential to move into soil, water and in atmosphere (Young & Weigniann, 1988). Therefore it is necessary to consider the negative effects of agricultural pesticides on human, livestock and other living organisms, also look at the ways to minimise the impacts of these negative effects. Effect of Pesticides on Humans: Pesticide poisoning in developing countries occurs in variety of ways. The group most at risk is farm worker, who mixes and applies pesticides in the field, also enters in the field after spraying. In 1976 massive poisoning among spray men of Malaria Control Programme occurred in Pakistan, and more than 7500 field workers were affected and five of them died (WHO, 1978). These injuries were result of mixing pesticides by hand and other poor practices (USAID, 1977). The contamination of wheat with Parathion group led to 100 deaths in South India. In 1980, 250 villagers were poisoned in North India due to wheat contamination with BHC, during storage. According one report from Philippine when farmers used Genochlorine pesticides, the death rate in newborn children increased by 27 times in countryside. In December 1987, pesticides poisoning in Hong Kong, due to eating Methamedophos contained spinach affected about 116 people. In California, hundreds of people were affected, when they ate pesticides treated melons. In south India, a mysterious disease affected 200 people in 40 villages, which began with intermittent pain in the hip and knee joints. This crippling deformity was linked with pesticide use (Bhat & Kirshan, 1977). Although there are no figures available about Pakistan, the newspapers report do indicates that pesticide's poisoning prevails in Pakistan. Effect of Pesticides on Livestock: Increasing use of pesticides has contributed in livestock diseases and mortality in rural areas of Pakistan. In December 1997, in Landhi Karachi, 40 buffaloes and cattle died due to unknown reasons. After laboratory tests it was identified that these animals died due to pesticide poisoning. After feed analysis it was found that their cotton seed cakes were contaminated with organo chlorine pesticide residue. In Tando Adam (Sindh), a herd of cattle and buffalo was affected due to pesticide poisoning, while the herd was grazing in fallow land besides cotton field, because cotton field was sprayed with pesticides. Effect of Pesticides on Environment: There are several processes that are active in transporting pesticides within or out of ecosystem. First process is volatilisation, in which pesticides evaporate in the air due to its higher vapour pressure. Second is movement of pesticides in dissolved state, this movement occurs in pesticides, which are water soluble in nature. Therefore, they leach out via macro-spores in soil, and contaminate ground water. Many pesticides transferred through air and during storms, pesticides can reach large urban cities, and cause eye problems and breathing problems in humans as well as in animals. Pesticides also kill beneficial insects and plants, which are essential for natural balance of our ecosystem. Conclusion: An organisation called Pesticide Action Network has prepared a list of hazardous pesticides. Eight of these hazardous chemicals are commonly used in developing countries. It is moral duty of developed and developing countries to ban all these chemicals. Some pesticides are banned in developed countries, but they are still sold and used in developing countries. Therefore it is the ethical duty of governments and researchers of developed world to stop all those multinational companies that are involved in such dirty business practices ************************************************************************ Integrated Pest Management (IPM): Components and Implementation By: Ghulam Hussain Mallah ************************************************************************ Pakistan is an agricultural country. More than 70% of the population is involved in agricultural related activities. Agriculture supplies most of the basic domestic food requirements plus 55% of the country's export earnings. In Pakistan human population is increasing at the rate of 2.9% annually; on the other hand, agricultural production worth of 2500 to 30000 million Pak rupees is lost annually due to plant pests and diseases. Therefore, pesticides use is increasing every year to reduce production losses. For example, total consumption of pesticides was 3404 tonnes in 1977, which increased to 5000 tonnes in 1982. Increasing chemical inputs is not the only solution to getting higher agricultural production; particularly, increasing net profit per acre. Every year increase in the use of chemical fertiliser and pesticides have resulted in lower net profits and caused serious damage to human health and environment. Looking at the above problems in our country and toxicity of pesticides. It is important that the use of all types of pesticides should be gradually phased out and replaced by plants resistant to pests and diseases. Till such time IPM can be used as a tool to control the pests and reduce the pesticides application. IPM is the best combination of cultural, biological, behavioural and chemical measures, which yields the most cost-effective environmentally friendly and socially acceptable insect, disease and weed management in given situation. In IPM, narrow range, selective, short-term pesticides are used to control pest population, if they are not controlled by other means. Components of IPM: 1. Cultural control 2. Biological control 3. Use of pheromones Use of microbial insecticides 4. Pest scouting 5. Rotational cropping Safe and efficient use of pesticides: 1. Continuos of pesticides causes an insect resistance problem, thus use them for limited period 2. Pesticides only used when pest population crosses thresh hold level. 3. Use right pesticide and full dose. 4. Well trained operator or technicians may be allowed to spray pesticides in the field Establishing the IPM Approach The use of IPM techniques require a good scientific knowledge in the following areas: 1. The plant growth pattern of locally cultivated varieties, distribution of the major pests and a destination part of the plant, which can be attacked by the pests 2. The effect of different planting dates on pest incidence 3. The major natural mortality factors regulating the abundance and population dynamics of the pests 4. The impact of the control procedures on the pests 5. Rotational cropping 6. Use of local natural chemical resources against pests (Neem Tree) It is therefore concluded that chemical method of pest control alone is not the only solution of the pest problem. There are several other alternatives to reduce the pest population. The concept of IPM is one of the important tools regarding controlling the pest population, which broadening the scope agro-ecosystem. IPM integrates several environmental friendly control methods and it does not entirely depend on use of pesticides. However, some times it is difficult to make balance between human food requirements and environmentally friendly methods to reduce pest attack and production losses. ********************************************************************** Livestock and nutrient cycling: Maintaining an ecosystem balance Special Report ********************************************************************** Crop farming takes out the soil nutrients, because farmers plant their crops, harvest the plants and typically cart them away to the homestead. After that the grain is removed, which is either eaten by the family or sold. The remains of the plant may or may not be returned to the fields. Obviously, there is a net loss of nutrients from the cropland, a loss that can be dramatic if crop residues are not returned to the soil. Inevitably, land that is cropped year in, year out without any nutrients being added will not continue to support the same yields, hence crop yields fall. The role of livestock in helping put nutrients back into soil is well known by the world's small-scale farmers and by soil and livestock experts. But in developed countries, where artificial fertilisers are abundant and affordable, this role of livestock is in danger of being forgotten. In the developed world, livestock are now seen as consuming resources and producing pollutants. The contribution that livestock make to crop production is strongly influenced by human population density, cropping intensity and climate. At one extreme, in arid lands unsuitable for cropping, pastoralism is the only option for sustaining livelihoods. With rising population density and higher rainfall, there is increasing interaction between livestock and crops-livestock come to rely on crops for part of their feed, while crops benefit from nutrients delivered as faeces and urine from the livestock. At the other extreme, in densely populated, intensively cropped regions, such as South-East Asia, livestock are highly valued by farmers as a means of producing fertiliser, converting plant material quickly and efficiently into a form that can be applied to the soil to maintain crop yields. Two routes from soil to soil Why involve livestock in cycling nutrients in crops back to soil? Why not just put the crop residues back on the land and let them decompose? There are several reasons why livestock are important to this process on small-holder farms. Firstly, cereal crop residues are often relatively slow to decompose Grazing cattle on crop residues in semi-arid West Africa. Livestock manure and urine are vital sources of nutrients for crop production in many parts of the developing world. Pose in soil, so it can be a long time before the nutrients in the crop residues become available to the subsequent crop. Also, while the soil microbes are breaking down the crop residues, they can actually tie up soil nitrogen for their own use, reducing the amount of nitrogen avail-able to plants. Thus, it may be months before the nutrients are available to plants. However, if one feeds crop residues to ruminant livestock, microbes in the animal's stomach break down the plant materials rapidly. The excreta, such as faeces and urine contain nutrients in forms that are more readily available to plants. The nutrients not excreted are converted to valuable animal products like milk, meat, fibre, tractive power etc. Livestock do more than speed up nutrient turnover through the process of digestion. As animals eat the palatable parts of the crop residues-the leaves for example-inedible fractions such as the stems are trampled underfoot (particularly if animals are stall-fed), where they mix with the faeces and soak up urine. Trampling by the animal breaks up the stover, speeding the decomposition process and increasing the capacity of the stover to absorb urine. Nitrogen in animal urine is commonly 'lost' through volatilisation, but using crop residues to soak up the urine improves nutrient 'capture'. 'Animal-processed' inedible fractions of crop residues compost faster, making the nutrients in them available sooner. The semi-arid zone includes parts of 48 developing countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America, home to roughly one-sixth of the world's population. This is one of the most fragile, vulnerable agro-ecological zones. Its soils are sandy, contain little organic matter, are poorly structured and hold little water. Many of them crust over easily when they dry, making it difficult for seeds to germinate, and they are all easily eroded by water and by wind. Large parts of the world's semi-arid lands can only be used sustainably by ruminant livestock, and then only if their numbers are controlled and they are free to move over long distances, following the region's sparse and erratic rain. But increasing human population is reducing the freedom of livestock herders to roam and driving farmers to crop land that once was under permanent grassland, exposing the soil to erosion and depriving livestock of grazing. Even where cropping is feasible, the traditional fallowing system has broken down under the pressure to produce more food, hastening the decline in the already low soil fertility. The high price of inorganic fertilisers, inappropriate policies and difficulties in getting agricultural inputs to rural areas mean that few farmers use improved crop varieties or fertilisers. Manure is often the only fertiliser used by smallholder farmers in this zone. The easy answers, such as not to cultivate fragile land and to limit the number of livestock kept on the land, don't work in the real world. What farmers and livestock owners need are options that help them produce the food and income they need to provide for their families and to contribute to the development of their societies. One such option -indeed one of very few workable options-is to integrate cropping and livestock rearing in ways that allow each activity to support the other, minimising competition for resources. This is the approach needed in fragile areas. ********************** SLAP's Team ********************** Honorary Editor: Dr Aslam P. UmraniPhD in "Sustainable Agriculture" Assistant Editors:Ghulam Hussain MallahRashid Ahmed Nizamani Printing and Distribution: Syed Munawar Ali Shah Tariq Ali Baloch Arts and Design: Zulfiqar Ali Publisher: Shahnaz.Palijo Address: Editor SLAP: 60/ Al Abass housing society, New Wehdat colony, Hyderabad, Pakistan. Email: agr726@hyd.zoooom.net.pk Email list to join: sindhorg@egroups.com Internet site to visit: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/3770/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Apr 30 23:18:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00481 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA24881 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:06:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA24860 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:06:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199904302105120080.02801CC1@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:05:12 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "sanet" Subject: Recent mainstream GMO article text Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA24864 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 586 (long) Thanks to Guy Clark for pointing out how to do away with line breaks using MSWord and hello to all: Men, women, boys & girls (other?). http://www.economist.com/2rUGyNk5/editorial/freeforall/1-5-99/index_science_and_technology.html (source) SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY Sticky labels O T T A W A Applying labels to novel foods sounds like an easy way to balance theopposing wishes of producers and consumers. The reality is more complex WHEN it comes to genetically modified food, as with so many things, Britain and America are two countries divided by a common languagethis time written in fine print on a can of beans. Along with the rest of the European Union, Britain has decided that any food that bears tell-tale traces of genetic engineering should be labelled as such, so that consumers can choose whether they wish to savour the fruits of new technology. America, on the other hand, reckons that if a genetically tweaked tomato or soyabean has lost none of its normal nutritional value and gained nothing toxic or allergenic in the process, a label is not required, since the souped-up version is substantially equivalent to the garden variety. Such differences of opinion, rooted in national cultures, are not surprising in a business as complex as biotechnology. And on many issues, countries can simply agree to disagree. But genetically modified foods are the stuff of international trade, not just domestic policy. And America, which last year exported 9m tonnes of mixed (modified and unmodified) soyabeans to the EU, takes great interest in how its trading partners handle such commodities. On April 28th representatives of America, the EU and 36 other countries gathered in Ottawa to discuss the labelling of genetically modified foods at a meeting of a little-known body called Codex Alimentarius. Codex was established by the Food and Agriculture Organisation and the World Health Organisation in 1962 to recommend minimum standards on food safety that all countries should follow. According to Rod Leonard, head of the Community Nutrition Institute in Washington, DC, Codex was a dull operation until the World Trade Organisation (WTO) decided to use its standards in international disputes over food trade. For example, the EUs ban on imports of hormone-treated beef from America defies Codexs scientific assessment that such meat is safe, and so constitutes, says the WTO, an illegal barrier to trade. Trade rows have made recent Codex committee meetings far livelier, especially over genetically modified foods. On the table in Ottawa is a draft recommendation for mandatory labelling of processed foods containing genetically modified organisms (GMOs), which largely follows the EU approach. American trade officials, who have complained about the EU rules since they were first formulated in 1997, are keen that they should not spread further by becoming Codex standards. Australia, New Zealand and Brazil, which once supported the American position, have since back-tracked. The argument is aggravated by lobbies such as Consumers International, who want labelling to cover any foodstuff that has its origins in genetic engineering, even if it lacks all trace of engineered DNA or protein. American trade officials, and some companies in the GMO business such as Monsanto, believe these demands are impractical, unfair and unnecessary. They argue that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that the current crop of genetically modified foods is any less safe to eat than traditional commodities. Yet as Geraldine Schofield, head of food regulatory affairs at Unilever, points out the push for labelling in Europe is as much about freedom of choice as about food safety (though European farmers desire for protection may also play its part). There are already national review bodies to ensure that genetically modified food is safe before it comes to market. Admittedly, many consumers are unaware of this approval process and some lobbyists argue that it should be tougher. But just as consumers choose to buy dolphin-friendly tuna or kosher meat, they may prefer to avoid genetically modified foods because of their personal views on, say, the environment. Surely it is on! ly fair to give them the tools to do so? Buyer beware A Eurobarometer survey conducted across the EU last year found that 86% of those questioned believe that food containing GMOs should always be labelled as such. And more than 50% trusted consumer associations to tell the truth about the food supplytwice as many as put their faith in national governments or EU authorities. This is in contrast to America, where consumer surveys give mixed views on the desire for labelling. As Thomas Hoban, a food sociologist at North Carolina State University, points out, Americans generally have a more relaxed attitude towards food than, say, the French, for whom it is a cultural matter. European qualms about contamination of the countryside by genetically modified crops scarcely occur to Americans, whose landmass is big enough to separate its agricultural heartland from rural playgrounds. And though Americans generally mistrust government meddling, they have great confidence in the countrys food and drug regulatory body, the FDA, to ensure that all food, genetically modified or not, is safe. Even so, Steve Suppan, director of research at the Institute for Agricultural Trade Policy, a public interest group in Minneapolis, says that many Americans want more information about genetic modification on the label; and they also want such foods to pass through additional safety trials, as food additives do, before being released on to the market. Some bodies, including the Centre for Food Safety in Washington, DC, have even sued the FDA. Others, like Mr Suppans group, are busy lobbying American trade officials, at Codex and elsewhere, for America to bring itself into line with Europes more cautious stance on GMOs. Yet such critics find it hard to catch the publics attention, whereas their European counterparts are often front page newsparticularly in Britain, where faith in food safety has already been shaken by bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow disease) and a recent fuss over the effects of genetically modified potatoes on experimental animals. So it is hardly surprising that Europeans want to make up their own minds about buying genetically modified foods. But quite apart from looming trade disputes with America, labelling is neither an easy nor a cheap fix. Hardly any processed food these days is 100% GMO-free. Even when firms such as Unilever manage to find a source of, say, non-modified soya to put in their products, it tends to get contaminated with genetically modified stuff since there is so much of it about. Trying to keep the two separate on their long trip from field to silo and then from cargo hold to processing planta process known as identity preservationrequires testing for GMOs at every step of the way. This testing can add an extra 30% to the cost of the final product. And as Dr Schofield points out, this is not a premium that customers are ready to pay, especially since they see no obvious benefits from current genetic engineering. Worse, methods and acceptable contamination levels have yet to ! be standardised in Europe. Attitudes may change when the next wave of genetically modified foods, which have been engineered for consumer-friendly traits such as higher vitamin content, emerge from the laboratory. Some industry analysts reckon this may be the only way out for companies stuck in European consumers bad books. One of the first products, DuPonts high-oleic soyabean, which yields an oil lower in artery-clogging saturated fats, is now awaiting regulatory approval in Europe. Producers will gladly keep such crops identity-preserved and clearly labelled, because their value depends on it. So even though labelling is currently controversial, there may one day be a technical fix after all. LINKS Greenpeaces True Food site monitors news on GM foods from a hostile perspective. Codex is the American governmental organisation charged with approving genetically modified foods. Which, the British-based magazine of the Consumers Association, has a great deal of campaining material on its website. The Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policys website is here. Douglas M. Hinds, Director Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (Center for Community and Rural Development, Non-profit Association) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 Mexico U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412-6308 (direct - Cd. Guzman, Jalisco) Tel. & Fax: 011 528 922-2424 (direct - Reynosa, Tamaulipas) e-mail: cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx, dmhinds@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 1 04:13:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA03152 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 04:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29745 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 03:35:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29613 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 03:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool013-max4.ds6-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.230.163]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00915; Sat, 1 May 1999 00:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <372AA9D8.1D9B32C2@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 00:14:32 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: Kevin Smyth , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: greenhouse aphids References: <000201be8f6f$574da240$0b3325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 587 Yes, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely it is the quality of the soil that is by far the almost certain reason why plants are attacked by insect pests. Over the many years I have found it almost impossible to get people to believe that it is the SOIL that counts. Maybe I can at least persuade folks to read the work of Dr. Philip Callahan, in Florida, who proved without any doubt that it is the electromagnetic spectrum wavelengths that insects recognize. As he points out, inssect antennae are really antennae. It is easier if I just quote from my own Organic Method Primer UPDATE, in the huge chapter on insects, pg 266: "..are really antennae, like simiconductors. "Because they are coated with wax, they are also paramagnetic structures. "Such structures are able to receive wavelengths of the infrared spectrum, so when an insect picks up this information, its brain tells it the frequencies mean something to eat or drink or a mate or whatever. "Since everything gives off infrared radiation, and in its own particular range of emotted vibrations, the composition made of all the vibrational frequency of all parts of any entity add up to one, composite frequency thatn an insect receives. It can translat that information, so it knows what to do about it. "The total combination message, 'combined frequency' varies with the state of the plant. That frequency is different, depending on whether or not the plant is healthy. For example, if the planta is missing a mineral, it 'vibrates at a different composite frequency', one that tells the insect: "This is food for me". If the plant is so healthy that its brix reading is very high, the composite frequency it emits will not correspond to the frequency that spells 'food' to the insect." Well that word from Callahan says it all. And of course, academia sneered. But then 20 yrs later found out he was right but pretended that it is not exactly the same as what he said, but IT WAS. Anyway, in the rest of that section in the UPDATE, there are other researchers quoted who found out the same thing in many different, interesting ways. SO, dear interneter, just get busy to strengthen your soil, with most likely plenty of organic matter. Finished compost is of course splendid, with leaf mold being even better, if you can find it to buy or even in a pile behind a tree. Absolutely, if the soil is adequate, there will not be insect pests. =================== Argall Family wrote: > Kevin wrote > >I haave aphids on chard, which hAs been growing all winter in a permanent > bed > in my greenhouse. This greenhouse also contains lots of flats of little > baby plants. Should I be concerned that the aphids will cause problems > by spreading to these? What should I do to avoid a problem? Thanks > > My experiences with aphids is that they vary with the degree of stress, > particularly nutritional, on plants, thus more with soil imbalance and more > in pots than in open, natural, balanced conditions. > > In a greeenhouse 'permanent bed' you may have some substantial imbalance, > perhaps a potassium deficiency if you have been heavily cropping and heavily > watering. A small amount of pot ash, or mulching with straw, hay, maybe > chopped lucerne hay, may provide eventual help. Are you topping up with good > compost? Is there a rotation? Does the soil attract earthworm? > > Are there any predators in the greenhouse? Are ladybirds, etc happy there. > Baby plants running on seed energy may do well until they start to shoot up > using the resources of a tired soil. > > my thoughts; contradiction, improvement welcome > > Dennis > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 2 08:31:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12409 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 08:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA16171 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 06:18:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from terminus.dnttm.ro (IDENT:root@terminus.dnttm.ro [193.226.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA15874 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 06:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (ppp09.dnttm.ro [193.226.98.74]) by terminus.dnttm.ro (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA10382 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:27:45 +0300 Message-ID: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Agroefekta srl" Subject: European Farmland at $100/acre! Date: Sat, 12 Sep 98 21:04:09 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id GAA16136 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 588 Hi, there! Anybody interested in good, plain land in Romania? $100 acre, or even less. Or, if you would like just to rent, 8-10% of crop, annual. Unlimited quantity. You can count on good market, nice weather, cheap working force, favor of state and prospects of raising the prices in short time. So, be quick! Thanks, Agroefekta srl To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 2 11:22:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13374 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA10141 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:37:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10132 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11051 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:38:59 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Sun, 2 May 1999 09:34:28 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.133] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 09470b3c ; Sun, 2 May 1999 09:34:12 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990502093453.007c7140@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 09:34:53 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, efekta@mail.dnttm.ro From: Mike Miller Subject: Re: European Farmland at $100/acre! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 589 This just brings into focus that "the world food problem" is not the quanity of food produced or a shortage of land on which to produce it but the distribution of that food by the world economic system. I just saw a farm magazine yesterday with a cover article about 100 bu. more corn per acre. What reality are these argibusiness types living in? Spend more money for new technologies that will produce even more corn? Maybe we can get the corn price so far below the cost of production as happened with hogs that the farmers will just give it away because it will cost more to harvest than what it will bring in the marketplace. I can see it now, armys of homeless former John Deere employees walking though a bankrupt and soon to be homeless farmer's field harvesting corn by hand in a "U-pick" operation to pay off the bankers. This is not my preferred vision of the future. Mike Miller At 05:53 02-05-99 -0600, you wrote: > >Hi, there! > >Anybody interested in good, plain land in Romania? $100 acre, or even less. >Or, if you would like just to rent, 8-10% of crop, annual. Unlimited quantity. > >You can count on good market, nice weather, cheap working force, favor of state and prospects of raising the prices in short time. > >So, be quick! > >Thanks, Agroefekta srl > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 2 11:31:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13768 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA14395 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:48:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from terminus.dnttm.ro (IDENT:root@terminus.dnttm.ro [193.226.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA14320 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (ppp67.dnttm.ro [193.231.207.72]) by terminus.dnttm.ro (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA20982 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:48:03 +0300 Message-ID: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Agroefekta srl" Subject: European Farmland $100/acre! Date: Sun, 13 Sep 98 19:13:59 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA14354 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 590 Hi, there! Anybody interested in good, plain land in Romania? $100 acre, or even less. Or, if you would like just to rent, 8-10% of crop, annual. You can count on good market, nice weather, cheap working force, favor of state and prospects of raising the prices in short time. So, be quick! Thanks, Agroefekta srl To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Apr 30 09:18:26 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA19690 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA03161 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:44:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dub-img-12.compuserve.com (dub-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.206.142]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03062 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id IAA24253; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:39:41 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: City Farmland To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904300843_MC2-73F4-C9A8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 591 Living on the Earth, April 30, 1999, City Farmland Mayor Rudolph Giuliani believes there is no need for community gardens in New York City because you can buy carrots in the supermarket. He says these gardens are relics of a failed economic system and the land they're using should be auctioned off to the highest bidder. One hundred and twelve neighborhood garden sites are scheduled to be sold on May 12th. Mary, a listener from Trumbull, sent a newspaper article and a letter asking for help in stopping the sale of what she calls "these places of beauty and community pride." The article from The Christian Science Monitor featured a Harlem elementary-school garden created nine years ago by teacher Tom Goodridge with the help of community organizations and a local church. Last November, a bulldozer arrived at the garden, pushed through the wood-framed fence and over trees and garden beds in order to clear the lot. Another fence was put up to keep people out of what soon became, once again, a brick-strewn wasteland accumulating garbage. What message does that shout out to the children and the community? This garden is one of 44 community garden sites that have already been bulldozed in New York City. Although some lots may become needed housing, Giuliani's "free-market economy" approach will convert many of these gardens into parking lots or commercial spaces. Some may even stay vacant while existing housing remains boarded up. High profits for developers and more taxes for the city are the goals. The increase in community gardens and urban agriculture in the last few decades makes so much sense, it is hard to believe that the mayor and his advisors don't understand it. Small, hand-tended plots can be much more productive per acre than large areas farmed with huge equipment. They're certainly more environmentally sound. The flavor and freshness of vegetables from the neighborhood make a big difference to those at the end of a very long food chain. Many of the world's most crowded cities produce significant amounts of fresh, nutritious food. These gardens build and strengthen communities, encourage pride in creation and ownership, as well as provide beauty and wholesome food. Many are also living laboratories for schoolchildren. Even a small plot of land can provide critical lessons and important connections to nature's essential processes. Gardens are a source of healthy exercise. It's hard to believe that a "quality of life" mayor would bulldoze such flowerings of the human spirit in order to bring in a few extra dollars. Mary asks for letters in support of the gardens, especially from friends who live in New York. Unfortunately, the Mayor's not alone in his ignorance of the real values of the gardens and farms which sustain us. In suburban Cheshire, Connecticut, it was just assumed that the town could turn a community garden site there into a parking lot for the swimming pool. However, it took lots of hard work by citizens and town employees to arrange for a replacement garden site. New Haven's now-vibrant community garden program has struggled for years against seizure and development of its garden lots. More traditional farmland is not much different. It is open, often flat or scenic and easy to transform into industrial parks or housing subdivisions. The US loses over one million acres of farmland every year. Connecticut and New York State each lost about 20 percent of their farmland over a recent ten-year period. All of the real food we eat comes directly or indirectly from the soil (except for energy-intensive hydroponic vegetables and the declining bounty of the seas). Unless we want to eat the products of a chemical factory, we need land for gardens and farms in order to grow our food. Since the Earth isn't getting any bigger, as the population rises, the available land per person shrinks. Now there is only about one-half of an acre per person left for food production. This makes all arable land valuable. Urban land is especially valuable because in addition to fresh vegetables and fruits, it also grows knowledge and community. Spread the word before all the land is developed and everybody believes that carrots really do come from the supermarket. This is Bill Duesing, Living on the Earth (C)1999, Bill Duesing, Solar Farm Education, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 Bill and Suzanne Duesing operate the Old Solar Farm (raising NOFA/CT certified organic vegetables) and Solar Farm Education (working on urban agriculture projects in southern Connecticut and producing "Living on the Earth" radio programs). Their collection of essays Living on the Earth: Eclectic Essays for a Sustainable and Joyful Future is available from Bill Duesing, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 for $14 postpaid. These essays first appeared on WSHU, public radio from Fairfield, CT. New essays are posted weekly at http://www.wshu.org/duesing and those since November 1995 are available there. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Apr 25 07:09:39 1999 -0400 Received: from intouch.intouch.com ([163.121.157.5] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA29706 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 07:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.5.0.132] ([208.5.0.132] (may be forged)) by intouch.intouch.com (8.8.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA27588 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:31:10 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199904251031.MAA27588@intouch.intouch.com> X-Authentication-Warning: intouch.intouch.com: [208.5.0.132] (may be forged) didn't use HELO protocol Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:02:27 +0200 From: "H. Osama" <"hosama"@intouch.com@intouch.com> Reply-To: ""hosama\"@intouch.com@intouch.com"an countries." Organization: AL HODA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dirtfarmer@metalab.unc.edu Subject: From Al Hoda Co. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 592 Dear sir, Al Hoda co. is one of the largest exporting company for agricultural products in Egypt. We are involved in cultivating, processing, and packing agricultural products and exporting them to most European countries. Recently we started our organic farm on a virgin desert area in Sinai and we had our license as producers from the Soil Association in the UK. We are now producing organic: sweet corn, baby corn, green beans, sweet peas, and spring onions and we export them to the UK. We need your kind cooperation to increase our market share in the UK and market these products in the EU countries and USA. Thank you for your kind cooperation .. From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Apr 23 08:41:52 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA24970 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA28432 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:08:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dub-img-11.compuserve.com (dub-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.206.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA28284 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id HAA24230; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:04:36 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: For Earth Day: Nature's Healing To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@COMPUSERVE.COM Message-ID: <199904230706_MC2-7306-8729@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 593 Living on the Earth, April 23, 1999, For Earth Day: Nature's Healing As we consider the environment on Earth Day, we need to determine what is important and how we will judge our success. One constant in our environment is change. Is that change toward greater fertility and diversity nearly everywhere, or is it in the opposite direction? Just north of our farm is an abandoned hayfield. It hasn't been farmed in the true sense for the twenty-five years I've lived next door. It was cut annually for hay until a decade or two ago, but nothing was returned to the field to compensate for the removal of the hay and the minerals and organic matter it contained. With this removal, the soil became increasingly less fertile and more acid. The hay became less nutritious, with more unpalatable weeds and eventually, the haying stopped. Now that this field isn't cut, it is filling in with a variety of vegetation. Cedar trees and Russian olive shrubs are the largest and most prominent plants, with spacing and patterns a fractal ecologist would understand. These are pioneer species, sturdy and sun-loving. The berries they produce attract mammals, whose paths criss-cross the field, and birds, including pheasants and turkeys. The wildlife leaves its manure, which boosts the fertility of the soil. Blueberries, dewberries, multiflora roses and cherries have grown from seeds in bird and mammal droppings. These new plants provide shade from the summer sun and shelter from the winter winds, pleasant features which weren't there before. As these pioneer species moderate the climate of the field, seeds contributed by hickory, oak, crabapple, ash and dogwood trees along the stone walls will begin their growth into a forest, eventually shading out the cedars and Russian olives. And all the while, the fertility of the soil is being built up as a growing population and diversity of soil organisms decomposes leaves, needles and manure. Harvest without return was destroying this field. Left alone, nature is healing it; moving it steadily in the direction of greater fertility, and an ability to capture and store more of the sun's energy. Along the way it provides food and good homes for ever more living things. We could speed up the healing process with minerals, manures, seeds or plants. Although a well-managed hayfield, which includes legumes and mineral and nutrient replacements, can remain productive for years, that poorly cared-for hayfield might be regarded as a severe injury to the native forest of Connecticut. It is healed, that is, returned to forest, by the diversity of life in the area, in dynamic response to sunlight, rainfall and temperature conditions. If a tree or shrub is removed, its space will be filled quickly. Like the field's recovery, or the reforestation of New England after the last ice age, given the climate of our region and its genetic resources, a forest will be restored. The time it takes depends on the size of the wound and other complicating factors. Areas which are very large, are paved or have been doused with chemicals may take much longer, but they too will heal; they too will return to forest. Which brings us to another important notion. It is not so much that the Earth is in trouble-- that we need to save the Earth. It, after all, evolved from a lifeless, rocky sphere, and has recovered from asteroid impacts and glaciations without our help. Our ability to live here, and the natural systems which sustain us are what's at risk. We should heed the warning that the vast majority of plant and animal species that have ever lived on Earth are now extinct. In light of the Earth's rapidly growing population, we need to set our sights firmly on an environment which is growing in diversity and fertility, one which will continue to provide food and shelter for a variety of beings, including ourselves. As Wendell Berry says at the end of his book, The Unsettling of America, "For our healing we have on our side one great force: the power of Creation, with good care, with kindly use, to heal itself." That's good news for Earth Day and everyday! This is Bill Duesing, Living on the Earth (C) 1999, Bill Duesing, Solar Farm Education, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 Bill and Suzanne Duesing operate the Old Solar Farm (raising NOFA/CT certified organic vegetables) and Solar Farm Education (working on urban agriculture projects in southern Connecticut and producing "Living on the Earth" radio programs). Their collection of essays Living on the Earth: Eclectic Essays for a Sustainable and Joyful Future is available from Bill Duesing, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 for $14 postpaid. These essays first appeared on WSHU, public radio from Fairfield, CT. New essays are posted weekly at http://www.wshu.org/duesing and those since November 1995 are available there. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Apr 16 09:25:32 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22863 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:25:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA01057 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:10:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dub-img-11.compuserve.com (dub-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.206.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01024 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id IAA06676; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:06:11 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Keeping Us Ignorant and the Right to Know To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904160809_MC2-7235-41D8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 594 Living on the Earth, April 9, 1999, Keeping Us Ignorant and the Right to Know In this age of information, why is there so much about the food we eat that America's agricultural establishment doesn't want us to know? Ironically, there are nutrition labels on almost everything. They tell us important facts such as the protein content of bottled water and the amount of saturated fat in chewing gum. But, we are not supposed to know or care about new technologies such as genetic engineering, hormone use in animals and irradiation, all of which radically change the foods we eat. Agribusiness offers a choice of dozens of kinds of colas and potato chips, but try to choose between beef and dairy products produced with or without hormones, between genetically-engineered food and plain old-fashioned food, or soon, between irradiated and non-irradiated meats. There just isn't any information. The genetically-engineered growth hormone rBGH (developed by Monsanto to make cows produce more milk) provided an early example of the hard-ball tactics which that company uses to suppress information. When rBGH appeared on the market, surveys overwhelmingly indicated that consumers didn't want this product and they wanted its use to be labeled. (Besides adding to the already large surplus of milk, rBGH puts extra stress on cows which makes them sick more often, encourages antibiotic use and shortens their lives.) Farmers who didn't drug their cows were happy to say so in order to give milk drinkers the information they wanted. However, Monsanto took some of these dairies to court. It worried that full disclosure of information would negatively impact its hormone sales. Since several of Monsanto's former employees were now making decisions at the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the government sat by while Monsanto sued those who wanted to provide consumers with the information they desired. The government's labeling policy was developed by Michael Taylor, who for years has alternated between working for Monsanto's Washington law firm and for the FDA. Now, only a few years later, most non-organic dairy products in the US contain some milk from hormone-treated cows. It's not that way in other countries. Earlier this year, despite nine years of pressure from Monsanto, Canada permanently banned the use of rBGH. The European Union, Japan and Australia have also banned this hormone because of concerns about its effects on animals and people. Last month, the EU said that the risk of breast and prostate cancer in humans could be increased by milk from hormone-treated cows. The situation has had one beneficial effect in this country: an enormous increase in the demand for, and production of, organic dairy products because hormone-use is prohibited in organic farming. Perpetuating this lack of information is so important to the industrial food system that agribusiness and its friends in government would rather start a trade war between Europe and the US than clearly identify beef that's been fattened using growth hormones and food grown from genetically-engineered seeds. European consumers do not to want artificial hormones in their beef, or the herbicide marketing genes and internal pesticides that agricultural chemical companies now engineer into the most common seeds. Europeans demand truthful labeling. Without it, assume that beef animals are treated with hormones and that corn, soybeans, canola and potatoes have been genetically engineered. Although the current law requires food that has been treated with irradiation must be labeled, the FDA is holding hearings that may eliminate that requirement. Send your comments to the FDA before May 18. The next two weeks have been designated "Global Days of Action Against Monsanto and Genetic Engineering." For more information, go to www. purefood.org on the web. This dangerous corporate and government collusion for secrecy and greater profits provides yet another reason for growing more of our own food and connecting directly with local farmers. This is Bill Duesing, Living on the Earth (C)1999, Bill Duesing, Solar Farm Education, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 Bill and Suzanne Duesing operate the Old Solar Farm (raising NOFA/CT certified organic vegetables) and Solar Farm Education (working on urban agriculture projects in southern Connecticut and producing "Living on the Earth" radio programs). Their collection of essays Living on the Earth: Eclectic Essays for a Sustainable and Joyful Future is available from Bill Duesing, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 for $14 postpaid. These essays first appeared on WSHU, public radio from Fairfield, CT. New essays are posted weekly at http://www.wshu.org/duesing and those since November 1995 are available there. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 3 01:25:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA23157 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 01:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA03035 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA02916 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu (root@rac2.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.142]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id AAA29217; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id AAA24010; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id AAA24006; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:43:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac2.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 00:43:23 -0400 (EDT) From: joel b gruver To: sanet , rw17@umail.umd.edu Subject: composting conserves more C ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 595 Hello to all... I just found a new article that dsicusses a topic that we have discussed before on SANET i.e Does composting prior to soil application conserve more or less C than direct application of raw organics ? The last sentence of the abstract states " Comparing C mineralization that takes place in soil and during composting, it can be concluded that composting is the best way to obtain maximum C stabilization..." Here is the bibliographic info... Bernal, M.P., Sanchez-Monedero, M.A., Paredes, C. and A. Roig. 1998. Carbon mineralization from organic wastes at different composting stages during incubation with soil. Agriculture, Ecosystems and Environment 69:175-189. I have not read the whole article as of yet... Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research U of MD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 3 11:18:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01018 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04657 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:17:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04632 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.218] (br-ppp12.hevanet.com [198.5.254.218]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA03557; Mon, 3 May 1999 07:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905031417.HAA03557@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 07:19:49 -0700 Subject: FW: Mining Health Treasures from Soybeans From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List , New Crops Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 596 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Mining Health Treasures from Soybeans Date: Mon, May 3, 1999, 6:26 AM STORY LEAD: Mining Health Treasures from Soybeans ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 3, 1999 Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Agricultural Research Service scientists are combing through leftovers from soybean oil and protein extraction, searching for components that might help cancer-free people stay that way. The idea is to add DNA-friendly compounds--termed chemoprotectants--to food additives and pharmaceuticals. Some natural and synthetic chemicals cause DNA disruptions that sometimes result in malignancies, but chemoprotectants help protect against irreversible cell damage. Soybeans and many other foods are already known to contain substances termed antioxidants that can help prevent cell mutations. Some of these antioxidative soy extracts, called isoflavones, are being marketed as food additives. But ARS scientists at the National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., and their University of Illinois colleagues at Champaign are prospecting for new chemoprotectants. The soy leftovers comprise a gooey molasses that has been used as livestock feed. Chemoprotectants isolated from these leftovers could become, pound for pound, more valuable than the main processed soy products. A light brown powder called phytochemical concentrate (PCC), isolated from the molasses, contains a mixture of these potent materials. In the research, university scientists expose cell cultures of Chinese hamster lungs and ovaries to PCC components prepared by the ARS scientists. Then they challenge the cells with a chemical known to induce tumors. Later, they assess DNA breakage in the cells and identify the most protective PCCs. In preliminary studies, mice fed certain PCC components seem to be protected from some forms of cell damage. These components, not yet detailed in scientific literature, include molecules that are much more antimutagenic than flavonoids. Flavonoids are antioxidants found in many foods. The research, supported in part by the United Soybean Board, may serve as a model for research on other foods. An article about the research appears in the May issue of Agricultural Research magazine and online at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/soy0599.htm ---------- Scientific contacts: Mark A. Berhow and Steven F. Vaughn, ARS, National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., phone (309) 681-6595, fax (309) 681-6693, berhowma@mail.ncaur.usda.gov (Berhow) and vaughnsf@mail.ncaur.usda.gov (Vaughn). ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 3 16:50:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11307 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09750 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:54:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA09732 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ahlbauer2 (129.93.89.139) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Mon, 03 May 99 14:54:29 CDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990503195540.0075a670@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: sare003@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:55:40 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, foodnet@lists.tmn.com, ncrsare@UNL.EDU, pdpstco@UNL.EDU, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu From: Lisa Bauer Subject: JOB NOTICE -- Marketing Director Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 597 An Iowa farmer developing a marketing co-op asked me to pass along the following announcement ... J O B N O T I C E ************************* ** Marketing Director ** Duties: Person will develop and implement a marketing strategy for organically grown meat products. Responsibilities include meeting with retail and wholesale markets and consumer groups interested in purchasing organically grown meat. Person will research and develop processing, packaging, labeling, and delivery systems and may also assist in developing production standards and support materials. Position is part time, with possibility of full time in future. Person will be assisted by cooperative staff and steering committee members. Office will be located in southwest Iowa. Qualifications: Must have some experience in marketing, preferably with retail or wholesale food establishments. Must be articulate and able to communicate verbally and in writing. Some travel required. Some training will be provided. Salary: Dependent upon qualifications and experience. Send resumes to: Heartland Organic Marketing Cooperative 1240 Ironwood Road Harlan, IA 51537 Reply to this message with questions. *************************** Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) sare003@unlvm.unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare *************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 3 20:50:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15886 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA08897 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:50:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08833 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA19471 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 18:47:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990503184939.006e4270@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 18:49:39 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: composting conserves more C ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA08846 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 598 Dear Sanet Thank you Joel for this reference. However, I recall that the previous discusion was concerned with several effects, not just "C stabilization", which is the purpose of composting to begin with. There was also a question of the effects on soil biology and structure of raw MO (mulch) vs. application of compost. J. Gruver wrote (snip) >..." Comparing C mineralization that >takes place in soil and during composting, it can be concluded that >composting is the best way to obtain maximum C stabilization..." > >Here is the bibliographic info... > >Bernal, M.P., Sanchez-Monedero, M.A., Paredes, C. and A. Roig. 1998. >Carbon mineralization from organic wastes at different composting stages >during incubation with soil. Agriculture, Ecosystems and Environment >69:175-189. > >I have not read the whole article as of yet... > >Joel Gruver >Soil Quality Research >U of MD > > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 4 12:12:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28725 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15838 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:07:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wstcm1.westco.net (wstcm1.westco.net [205.245.79.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA15800 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.westco.net [205.245.78.170] by wstcm1.westco.net (SMTPD32-4.06) id ACE5E80130; Tue, 04 May 1999 11:06:13 EDT Message-id: Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:09:58 -0400 Subject: Best Practices for Raising Hogs? From: MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org (Marian Buckner) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 599 I do hope some of you can help with this request. Someone I know asked me for information on alternative mid-sized hog farm operations (large family farm, not factory farm size). She wants to know: (1) What are good methods for proper treatment of waste to curb pollution and stench? (2) How can one provide humane living conditions for the animals? She is hopeful that the neighboring hog farmer, who has formerly been a good neighbor, will be open to good information. His hog operation is unusually odorous, and his waste treatment leaves much to be desired. We do not think he would consider pastured pork production. Thanks for any help. Marian Buckner To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 4 13:53:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01249 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA28569 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:25:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28495 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:25:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06416 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA19717 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:25:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199905041625.LAA19717@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:25:23 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Showdown in Court Over Human Growth Hormones X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 600 Howdy all-- Thought this piece from yesterday's /SF Chronicle/ might interest some of you. I can't say I realized that science wore a "white frock"--but then again they're talking about scientists in SF. Here they mostly wear chinos. ;^) peace misha ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Showdown in Court Over Human Growth Hormones UCSF, Genentech square off on high-stakes bioengineering rights Tom Abate Monday, May 3, 1999 A federal judge will preside over a courtroom drama this morning involving charges of purloined DNA and patent infringement in the high-stakes race to develop the first bioengineered human growth hormone. The case pits the Bay Area's top biomedical research institute, the University of California at San Francisco, against the world's biotech pioneer, Genentech Corp. At issue are conflicting claims about who discovered what, and when, more than 20 years ago, when biotech was young. UCSF lawyer Gerald Dodson actually laid out his case last week when he painted a smarmy picture of how Genentech allegedly spirited the DNA for making growth hormone out of a UCSF lab. Dodson said that in 1978, three UCSF researchers, Howard Goodman, John Shine and Peter Seeburg, isolated the strand of DNA that makes growth hormone. That knowledge was the key to mass-producing a growth hormone drug. Growth hormone drugs had long been used to help undersize children grow. But before the DNA was identified, the drugs had to be obtained from the pituitary glands of cadavers, a messy and expensive process. Dodson said UCSF's discovery, for using DNA to mass-produce the hormone, was therefore of great value. So in April 1978, the university applied for a patent on the process. But that was before the courts had decided it was OK to patent DNA, so the application went into legal limbo. Meanwhile, Dodson said, Genentech, then just 2 years old, tried to woo the three UCSF scientists to join the startup. Genentech co-founder Bob Swanson and his venture capital buddy Tom Perkins took the scientists for sailboat rides on San Francisco Bay, he said. Finally, said Dodson, Seeburg, a junior member of the UCSF trio, had a falling out with senior scientist Goodman, and in September 1978 went to work for Genentech. Then, on New Year's Eve, Dodson said, Seeburg ``returned to his old laboratory at the University of California, and took the invention, took the DNA, and he removed it from the university laboratory and took it to Genentech.'' Dodson sought to prove that, in part by using this DNA, Genentech was able to quickly develop its own human growth hormone and seek a patent on it --despite protests from UCSF. In 1985, Genentech brought the drug, called Protropin, through the regulatory process and started to sell the hormone. Since then it has grossed over $1 billion in sales, on which Dodson argued the university is owed some royalty. ``Genentech got the inventor . . . (and) got the actual DNA itself,'' he said. ``We think when you hear this evidence you will find that the university's patent has been infringed.'' To bolster his case, Dodson last week put Seeburg himself -- now director of a scientific institute in Heidelberg, Germany -- on the stand to admit that he had indeed taken a DNA sample from UCSF to Genentech 21 years ago, and used it in his research at Genentech. This week, it will be Genentech attorney John Kidd's turn to make his case, which he outlined in last week's opening statement. ``The evidence is going to show that we did it independently, we did our own research,'' said Kidd, who made a two-pronged assault on Seeburg's credibility. First, Kidd shrugged off the fact that Seeburg took the DNA from UCSF, saying it was common for researchers in those days to take samples of their work. ``But did we use it?'' Kidd asked. ``The evidence will show that we did not.'' More ominously, Kidd argued that although this patent dispute has been simmering for two decades, and Seeburg has been questioned numerous times, it is only in the past two years that he has alleged that Genentech actually used the DNA he took with him from UCSF. And, Kidd reminded the 10-person jury, if UCSF prevails and wins back payment of royalties, Seeburg stands to profit. Under UCSF policy, its researchers receive 50 percent of all royalties resulting from their work. Seeburg and the other two would each pocket nearly 17 percent of any settlement and future royalties. Just how much is at stake in the trial is as contentious as every other aspect of this messy affair. Genentech has sold about $1.2 billion worth of growth hormone drugs. Should the university win, it could ask for back royalties of anywhere from 3 percent to 12 percent, and possibly triple damages, a range that goes from $36 million to $432 million. Officially, Genentech says it doesn't consider the trial a material risk. But the case certainly grabbed the attention of Genentech chief executive Art Levinson, who sat in court last week during Seeburg's testimony. In addition to attacking Seeburg's credibility, Genentech's lawyers will spend this week trying to persuade the jury that there are subtle but essential differences between its growth hormone and the UCSF variant. ``If differences count, my client does not infringe,'' said Kidd, who will also point out that Genentech has six patents on growth hormones to UCSF's one. Genentech investors seem to have largely ignored the courtroom drama. Its shares, which hit a 52- week high of $88.94 at the end of March, slipped 50 cents Friday to close at $84.53. But no matter which side prevails in court, some damage has already been done. The trial has lifted the white frock of science, and revealed beneath it the all-too-familiar outlines of avarice, ambition and duplicity. c1999 San Francisco Chronicle Page E1 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such trifling investment of fact. --Mark Twain To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 4 14:13:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01861 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA20967 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:08:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from foe.org (No.Such.Address.at.Essential.ORG [216.0.124.66] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA20961 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FOE-Message_Server by foe.org with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 04 May 1999 12:57:51 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:57:34 -0400 From: "valerie frances" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Celinda Lake CAFO Briefing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA20962 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 601 Dear Friend-- As you may know, a group of organizations recently commissioned set of questions related to animal factories as a part of a national omnibus poll of 1,000 registered voters conducted by Celinda Lake's firm in late March. Celinda has graciously agreed to present the findings from these questions at a briefing for family farm, conservation and other groups concerned with animal factories. Please join Celinda Lake and the sponsors of the poll on Tuesday, May 11, from 3:30 to 5:00pm. The briefing will take place in the 7th Floor conference room of Resources For the Future, located at 1616 P Street NW (on P Street between 16th and 17th Street). Please RSVP in advance if you know you will be joining us. Thank you, Dan Barry ps. We intend to make the briefing available for folks to call in to listen to, so if you would like to join us in that way, please let me know so we can arrange conference calling capabilities. --------------------------------- Daniel J. Barry Vice President for Programs Americans For the Environment 1400 16th Street NW, Box 24 Washington, DC 20036 202-797-6663 v 202-797-6563 f dbarry@afore.org www.afore.org --------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 4 14:15:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01911 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA01292 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:26:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01212 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08259 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 13:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA22825 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:26:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199905041726.MAA22825@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:26:22 -0500 Subject: Secy. Glickman on biotech X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 602 Howdy, all-- The following came over on another mailing list. Does anyone know more about this? Including a pointer to where to find the speech. > From Congress Daily, May 3, 1999 > > Meanwhile, Agriculture Secretary Glickman late last week warned > students and professors at Purdue University not to put "all of our > eggs in the biotech basket," and compared enthusiasm for biotech to > past enthusiasms for nuclear energy and Asian financial markets. In > a speech delivered Thursday and released by the Agriculture > Department over the weekend, Glickman said that, while > "biotechnology can be an indispensable tool ... we have to be > careful about ratcheting up the expectations on some of these > technologies. ... We have a way in this country of latching on to > solutions, pursuing them to the exclusion of others, and then > watching them sometimes backfire." Noting that two British grocery > chains last week said they will attempt to eliminate products with > genetically modified ingredients, Glickman also told the Purdue > audience that "we can't force these genetically engineered food > products down people's throats," and said U.S. manufacturers of > genetically modified organisms have a responsibility to educate > foreign buyers and consumers. - by Jerry Hagstrom Thanks in advance. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 4 16:07:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA05038 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07698 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:39:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07685 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:39:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10033 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 14:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phcglen (12.2.59.3) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Tue, 04 May 99 13:40:06 CDT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990504183105.006b18f8@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:31:05 -0600 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: Monsanto encourages "conservation tillage" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 603 Monsanto is offering an incentive program for growers converting their equipment for no-till production in western Nebraska. According to the May 1999 Nebraska Farmer, farmers must purchase at least 60 gallons of Roundup Ultra RT between Jan. 1 and June 30, 1999, to qualify. They also must purchase their equipment between these dates. Eligible attachments include fertilizer spreaders, down-pressure springs, and coulters. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 4 16:44:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA05785 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA18889 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:52:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA18840 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3) id PAA06381 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;372F4F24.7F18.0240.000] Content-Identifier: Monsanto encoura UA-Content-Id: Monsanto encoura Autoforwarded: FALSE X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:48:00 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:48:00 -0400 From: Marc Safley Subject: Monsanto encourages "conservation tillage" -Reply To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <372F4F24.7F18.0240.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-p4)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 604 So, what's the incentive? The farmer buys 60 gallons of stuff and buys equipment. What's Monsanto kicking in? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 07:19:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA18588 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 07:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA14561 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:58:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14530 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14568 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA01161 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:57:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199905042057.PAA01161@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:57:15 -0500 Subject: Dan Glickman's speech X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 605 Howdy, all-- The luminous and informative Pam Murray shot me the URL for Dan Glickman's speech at Purdue last week in which he talked about ag concentration, critique of biotech, farmers markets, organics, niche markets, Earl Butz, Dick Lugar, nuclear power (13 years and 3 days after Chernobyl!), why we must all keep jumping, and much more. Thought some of you might be interested: http://www.usda.gov/news/releases/1999/04/0187 Pam, many thanks. I managed not to die laughing at his comment about biotechnology being the "twin" of information technology. The only "twinning" I see is where Marketing Weasels use the methods of persuasion and opinion engineering to cram technologies down the throats of people who have some very valid--and unanswered--questions about it. I call that the Ministry of Truth Guns For Hire phenomenon, not "twinning." But I digress. However I do see some cultural commonalities...which may be place-based. I'll have some thoughts to share about biotech and information technology...and San Francisco Bay Area culture...soon. Nothing personal against weasels, by the way. Finally, anybody know who wrote this speech for D.G.??? peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, folks, this is a democracy, and in a democracy the cynics don't decide who's elected to office unless you let them--unless they're the only ones who vote. We decide. --U.S. Rep. Tammy Baldwin, WI To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 07:38:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA18833 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 07:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA19532 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:32:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA19261 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-11-5.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.149]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA31643; Tue, 4 May 1999 18:09:34 -0500 Message-ID: <001201be967e$56f205a0$955f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Marian Buckner" , Subject: Re: Best Practices for Raising Hogs? Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:33:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 606 The problem, as I see it, with alternative, sustainable, and organic production practices is those that adapt them still have the baggage (debt from iron and concrete, etc.) from the previous operation. A couple of examples come to mind. A confinement dairy that wants to try Management Intensive Grazing (MIG) still has the blue monuments, all the tractors, the equipment, the barns, and all the associated debt. A confinement hog operation is identical. If they want to raise hogs on pasture what do they do with the buildings and all the debt from the buildings? Single use facilities are worthless without animals in them. Unless the person is financially solvent and motivated the change is almost impossible without adding a grazing operation to the current buildings. And that doesn't really address the odor problems at least short term! The reality is "we" (don't count me in that we!) have created a extremely capital intensive, industrialised agriculture that is as addictive as the worst drugs on the planet. There isn't a good way off the treadmill that I see. A lot of these operations have hundreds of thousands, if not millions, invested in facilities and equipment that can not be sold. Low input operations by their very nature generally do not work well with high debt loads. Especially when that debt isn't even from the existing operation. Good luck. Sorry I don't have any answers. Best Wishes, Greg Gunthorp Visit our farm at www.grassfarmer.com PS Now offering free range, chemical free hog roasting in the IN, MI, OH, and Chicago land area! (Yes we talked the county health department into a permit. What an experience!!!) -----Original Message----- From: Marian Buckner To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 11:27 AM Subject: Best Practices for Raising Hogs? > > I do hope some of you can help with this request. Someone I know asked >me for information on alternative mid-sized hog farm operations (large >family farm, not factory farm size). She wants to know: > (1) What are good methods for proper treatment of waste to curb >pollution and stench? > (2) How can one provide humane living conditions for the animals? > > She is hopeful that the neighboring hog farmer, who has formerly been a >good neighbor, will be open to good information. His hog operation is >unusually odorous, and his waste treatment leaves much to be desired. We >do not think he would consider pastured pork production. > > Thanks for any help. Marian Buckner > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 08:01:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA19060 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA06871 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:39:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06706 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14065 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA00294 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 15:39:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199905042039.PAA00294@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 15:39:06 -0500 Subject: Environmentalists quit EPA pesticide panel X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 607 Howdy all-- Via Reuters, thought the following might interest some of you. "Yesterday" is April 27. (I received this undated, as you see it.) Also, here is a news release appearing World Wildlife Fund's site: http://www.worldwildlife.org/toxics/whatsnew/index.htm Here is the groups' letter of resignation: http://www.nrdc.org/nrdcpro/petit/pestlet.html peace misha ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- GROUPS QUIT U.S. PESTICIDE PANEL, CITE CHILD SAFETY By Julie Vorman WASHINGTON - A half-dozen consumer groups yesterday quit a White House pesticide review panel, saying chemical and farm interests were blocking attempts to protect young children from suspected cancer-causing insecticides used on peaches, apples and other foods. The departure of the World Wildlife Fund, Natural Resources Defence Council, Consumers Union and four other activist groups came after months of growing frustration with the slow pace of the 50-member advisory panel. At issue is how the Environmental Protection Agency decides which pesticides in food, drinking water, playgrounds, lawns and homes pose a health threat to young children. The consumer groups criticised the EPA for not banning methyl parathion and other chemicals linked to cancer. Methyl parathion is widely used on peaches, apples, pears, grapes and other diet staples of young children. Consumers Union, using U.S. Agriculture Department data, recently calculated that two out of five young children eat an unsafe amount of methyl parathion residue from peaches alone. Ned Groth, a food safety scientist for Consumers Union, said, "The panel is a consensus process that takes forever and is an invitation to endless debate. The agency needs to make hard decisions based on the available data and go forward." As a precaution, parents should peel fruits and vegetables before giving them to pre-school children, or buy organically-grown produce, Groth said. Researchers say animal studies show the nervous systems and reproductive organs of infants, toddlers and small children may be vulnerable to certain chemicals. Of particular concern to health experts are a cheap and widely-used class of organophosphate pesticides for fruits and vegetables developed by the military during World War II in nerve gas experiments. But U.S. growers, now facing low commodity prices and stiff international competition, have pressed the EPA for more studies and proof that certain chemicals are dangerous. That has resulted in a virtual deadlock on the pesticide advisory panel created one year ago by Vice President Al Gore. At that time, Gore said he expected the panel to make final recommendations to the EPA by September 1998. The group, which met Tuesday, was scheduled to meet several times this summer. Gore, who is expected to seek the Democratic presidential nomination, has tried to walk a tightrope between farm and environmental interests in the debate. A sweeping 1996 law ordered the EPA to evaluate 3,000 U.S.-registered pesticides by August 1999 to assess the safety risk for children. The law requires the agency to require an extra tenfold safety margin for children. The activist groups said they would sue the EPA in August if the agency failed to meet deadlines imposed by Congress. Some other panel members - including farm and chemical industry groups, pediatricians, and scientists - also have privately expressed doubts that key issues can be resolved without going back to Congress or the courts. "To have these groups resign is not in the public's best interest," said Jay Vroom, president of the American Crop Protection Association, a trade group representing pesticide makers. "Are they for sound science that protects kids or political grandstanding that grabs headlines?" A top EPA official said he was disappointed that the activist groups bowed out, but said the agency remained committed to phasing out dangerous pesticides. "We, too, wish that this process could be faster," Peter Robertson, EPA acting deputy administrator, said in a letter to the groups. "But we are on schedule for assessing risks and taking risk-reduction actions, beginning in August, as the law prescribes." (C) Reuters Limited 1999. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take a deep breath. Yeah, I know it doesn't make you feel better, but it oxygenates your blood and allows you to swear in longer strings. --Mister 3D To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 08:14:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA19207 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 08:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA06661 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:39:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA06511 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA17961 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.163] (term5-35.vta.west.net [205.254.241.163]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B9AA0249D2; Tue, 4 May 1999 17:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:38:56 -0800 To: Michele@west.net, Gale-Sinex/CIAS@west.net, UW-Madison , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Glickman @ Purdue on the prospects of biotech Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA06512 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 608 April 30, 1999 -- AgAnswers, Purdue University Reacting yesterday (4/29) to news that two grocery store chains in the United Kingdom vowed to remove all foods containing genetically modified food products, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman told an audience at Purdue: "My belief is that farmers and consumers will come to see the benefits of these products. But," he added, "we can't force these new genetically engineered foods down consumers' throats." Glickman says scientists and the agribusiness industry must not dismiss the skepticism, but instead focus on consumer education, public information and on maintaining sound scientific practices. Consumer skepticism throughout Europe about the safety of foods processed from genetically engineered grains poses potentially huge challenges for American farmers who have been planting biotech seeds, such as Bt corn and Roundup Ready corn and soybeans. In 1998, almost one-third of U.S. soybean acres and about a quarter of U.S. corn acres were planted in genetically engineered seed. Those percentages were in the single digits one year earlier. However, Europeans are leery of newfangled food products, especially after the attention to "mad cow" disease two years ago, says Ohio State agricultural economist Tom Sporleder. There's an outcry about food safety in Europe, even though "mad cow" disease didn't involve genetic engineering, Sporleder says. "'Mad cow' disease scared the hell out of the Europeans," he says. "I think they're saying to the scientific community, 'Prove beyond a doubt biotech is safe.' In the long-run, I really believe the world will accept food products made from genetically altered grains." Some American farmersand food processorsmay be in a bind if the European Union (EU) succeeds in pressing for a major round of talks of the World Trade Organization (WTO) in November, Sporleder says. The EU wants processed foods to be labeled if they are made from genetically engineered crops, Sporleder says. In addition, the EU is concerned about pollen "drift" from fields planted with genetically modified crops to fields of conventional crops. The current U.S. position is that genetically altered food need not be labeled. The labeling issue is significant because processed foods are a major segment of trade in the globalized economy, Sporleder says. American processors could comply, but not without considerable expense that would raise food costs. "It would affect farmers ultimately," Sporleder says. "Our food system is totally interdependent, and you would have a ripple effect back to that field of corn." European attitudes have already resulted in a flurry of laws by individual nations concerning the identity of foods, Sporleder says. In some European countries, retailers and restaurants must provide information to consumers about whether foods come from genetically modified sources, he says. Some American grain handlers already are heeding European concerns by announcing they will not buy grains produced from genetically engineered seeds that are banned by the EU. Sporleder says he doesn't think Europe's position is motivated by protectionist concerns against U.S. biotech industries, such as Monsanto, which produces the genetically engineered Roundup Ready corn and soybeans. Many European companies already are involved in genetically engineered products, such as seeds and medicines, he says. Europeans attitudes may start to change when they see benefits from genetically engineered products, such as edible vaccines, But it may take many years, Sporleder says. "U.S. consumers, and maybe North American consumers in general tend to accept biotechnology more readily and sort of have more faith in it than Europeans," he says. A possible compromise for the U.S. and EU's trade positions is a concept called "permissive labeling." It would require labels saying food "may" have been made with genetic engineering. A dual commodity market also could emerge for genetically engineered and non-altered crops, Sporleder says. The pricing structure could get complicated as more genetic traits are added to conventional hybrids, a practice known as "stacking," he says. For example, crops might be priced by the kinds and numbers of genetically engineered traits introduced to the seed. "There's no end to what could happen, if each of these traits have some market value," he says. "In the long term, I don't think it's going to be a problem because the market will adjust to it." In the meantime, American farmers should try to protect themselves by making sure they have a market for any genetically engineered seed they plant, Sporleder says. "They have to realize they may in fact have a limited market for these kinds of crops," he says. As for a prediction on the outcome of the WTO talks, Sporleder says: "It's going to depend on how shrewd the negotiators are on both sides." __________________________________________ Ms. Renske van Staveren, Coordinator International Forum on Food & Agriculture (IFA) c/o Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis, MN, USA 55404-2505 ph: 612-870-3423 fax: 612-870-4846 rvanstaveren@iatp.org> http://www.iffah.org __________________________________________ "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 11:09:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22406 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA23311 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:12:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA23286 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA01217 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phcglen (12.2.59.46) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Wed, 05 May 99 09:13:18 CDT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990505140426.006bf420@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:04:26 -0600 To: Marc Safley From: Jane Sooby Subject: Re: Monsanto encourages "conservation tillage" Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 609 Marc--Sorry, I overlooked this detail--Monsanto is sharing the cost of the attachments. They'll pay 20% or up to a maximum of $1,000 on the equipment cost. At 03:48 PM 5/4/99 -0400, you wrote: >So, what's the incentive? The farmer buys 60 gallons of stuff and buys >equipment. What's Monsanto kicking in? > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 11:09:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22415 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04587 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:45:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emerald.tufts.edu (pmdf@[130.64.1.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04549 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by emerald.tufts.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #U3521) with SMTP id <0FB900J01I7240@emerald.tufts.edu> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:45:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Molly Anderson Subject: Job Announcement--Agric. Ecology Instructor To: san Cc: ecol-agric@mailbase.ac.uk, SAED-SHARE-L@cornell.edu, NEFOOD-L@listproc.tufts.edu Message-id: X-Envelope-to: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 610 Position: Part-time Instructor in Agricultural Ecology School of Nutrition Science and Policy, Tufts University, Medford, Mass. Apply by: July 15, 1999 The School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts University will hire a part-time instructor for the fall 1999 semester (September 1-December 15) to teach one course in Agricultural Ecology appropriate for graduate and advanced undergraduate students. The course should introduce the physical attributes of agricultural systems, basic ecological principles which affect agricultural processes, and the ecological consequences of food production alternatives. The instructor will be expected to organize at least three field trips to explore aspects of agricultural production and associated ecological problems in this region. Class logistics (evening or day, once-a-week or twice-a-week) are flexible. Payment will be commensurate with experience. The School of Nutrition Science and Policy brings together biomedical, social, political and behavioral scientists to conduct research, educational, and community service programs to improve the nutritional health and well-being of people throughout the world. The course in Agricultural Ecology is offered through the Center on Agriculture, Food and Environment (CAFE), which administers a degree-granting program at the M.S. and Ph.D. levels, research projects, programmatic initiatives, and community service projects on problems with, and alternatives to, domestic and international food-supply systems. Qualifications: Required: * earned doctorate in ecology or an appropriate environmental or agricultural science; doctoral candidates may be considered. * university teaching experience. Applications: Please send a C.V., cover letter, and sample of a course syllabus you have designed and taught to Molly D. Anderson, CAFE Director, School of Nutrition Science and Policy, Tufts University, Medford, MA 02155-7028. Applications received by July 15, 1999, will be considered. Please direct inquiries about this position to Dr. Anderson at manderso@tufts.edu. Additional information about the School of Nutrition Science and Policy and activities of the Center on Agriculture, Food and Environment is available at http://www.tufts.edu/nutrition. Tufts is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. Members of groups historically under-represented in academia are encouraged to apply. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 11:11:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22457 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA23674 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:14:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA23657 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:18:33 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: VP Al Gore Announces Commitments to Build a Sustainable Ameri ca Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:18:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 611 -----Original Message----- From: The White House [mailto:Publications-Admin@Pub.Pub.WhiteHouse.Gov] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 5:09 PM To: sdcouncil@reeusda.gov Subject: SDCOUNTIL> 1999-05-04 VP Announces Commitments to Build a Sustainable America Office of the Vice President ________________________________________________________________________ For Immediate Release May 4, 1999 VICE PRESIDENT GORE ANNOUNCES NEARLY 50 FEDERAL COMMITMENTS TO HELP BUILD A MORE SUSTAINABLE AMERICA Also Calls on Congress to Approve Administration's Livable Communities Initiative Detroit, MI -- Vice President Gore today announced nearly 50 commitments by federal agencies to help build a more sustainable America, and he called on Congress to approve the Administration's proposals for helping state and local governments build more livable communities for the 21st century. In an address to the National Town Meeting for a Sustainable America at Detroit's Cobo Convention Center, the Vice President said the gathering of 3,000 business, community and elected leaders represented a growing movement across the country supporting new, innovative strategies that promote a high quality of life, a healthy environment, and strong economic growth. "Many of you have worked for years to promote the kind of growth that is good for families, good for communities, and good for our economy," the Vice President said. "When we consider what is at stake -- our economic strength, our public safety, our air and water and open space, the strength of our families, and our very sense of community -- we realize that this truly is a great national challenge for the 21st century." The National Town Meeting, cosponsored by the President's Council on Sustainable Development and the nonprofit Global Environment & Technology Foundation, is highlighting sustainable practices pioneered by businesses and communities across the country. The Town Meeting's co-hosts are the City of Detroit, Wayne County, the State of Michigan, General Motors Corporation, and the Metropolitan Organizing Strategy Enabling Strength (MOSES). An estimated 60,000 people are participating by satellite at more than 100 sites across the country. One of the goals of the Town Meeting is to stimulate 2,000 commitments from individuals, businesses, and communities by the year 2000 to undertake new efforts to ensure sustainable growth and a better quality of life. As a demonstration of the federal government's dedication to the Town Meeting's goals, the Vice President announced 47 commitments from 11 federal agencies, including: The Department of Agriculture will expand its efforts to promote local farmers' markets that help sustain family farms while providing fresh produce directly to consumers. The General Services Administration is creating a new Center of Expertise for Urban Development and Livability to strengthen the agency's efforts to leverage its huge urban real estate holdings in support of downtown revitalization, for instance by locating new federal buildings downtown. The Federal Emergency Management Agency will accelerate efforts to acquire or elevate homes and other structures in high-risk floodplains, protecting both people and property from recurring natural disasters, and ensuring communities a more sustainable economic base. The Department of Transportation is launching a Transportation Livability Initiative to help communities improve their transportation decisionmaking. The Department will develop a toolkit and a website, outline available transportation resources, showcase success stories, convene regional working groups on livability, and collaborate with other Federal agencies on livability activities. "As people across America pull together to create more livable, sustainable communities, we in the federal government are fully committed to doing our part," the Vice President said. "We are reinventing the way we do business to be a full partner in building a more sustainable America." In his remarks, the Vice President also called on Congress to approve the Administration's proposed Livable Communities Initiative, which would provide communities with new tools and resources to preserve green spaces, ease traffic congestion, and pursue "smart growth" strategies. The initiative includes $700 million in new tax credits for Better America Bonds, which would help communities leverage nearly $10 billion over five years to improve water quality, protect green spaces, and clean up brownfields. It also proposes a record $6.1 billion for public transit, and $1.6 billion to support state and local projects that reduce traffic congestion and improve air quality. "Our goal is to provide more choice for communities. We can empower people at the grassroots level by giving them the tools and resources they need to create the communities they want," the Vice President said. "When we work together, we can craft solutions that are good for cities, suburbs, and rural areas. We can sustain our prosperity, improve our quality of life, and restore a sense of community -- for all Americans." # # # Summaries of the federal commitments announced at the National Town Meeting are available by request at 202-456-7035. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 11:30:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22945 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29409 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:28:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29287 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA01564 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA14739; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:28:12 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma014144; Wed, 5 May 99 09:27:37 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:27:37 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD00@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: De-commodification of grain Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:27:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 612 Colibri@west.net (sorry, I don't remember your name) has been forwarding many interesting news tidbits on genetic engineering. The posting of May 4 from Colibri was from AgAnswers, Purdue, on Glickman's speech. > The EU wants processed foods to be labeled if they are made from > genetically engineered crops, Sporleder says... > "It would affect farmers ultimately," Sporleder says. "Our food > system is totally interdependent, and you would have a ripple effect > back to that field of corn.".... > The pricing structure could get complicated as more genetic traits > are added to conventional hybrids.... > "There's no end to what could happen, if each of these traits have > some market value," he says. "In the long term, I don't think it's > going to be a problem because the market will adjust to it." In a previous post Colibri forwarded on 3/17, Deborah MacKenzie wrote: > Buckwell presented his findings in Brussels earlier this month. > He says that similarly stringent segregation--although not on > the basis of genetic modification--is already widespread. > "Different varieties of wheat, for bread or pasta, are already > strictly separated from farm gate to production plant," he says. > And in the US, soya growers already distinguish beans used > in different kinds of tofu for export to Japan. As specific, value-added traits, especially quality traits are incorporated in grain varieties (transgenically or by traditional breeding), a major concern in the seed industry is how to capture some of that value. Grain as a standard commodity does not make it very easy for the seed industry to capture value from many kinds of improvements. I believe that public fear of genetic engineering and the desire of the milling and seed industries for identity-preserved grain, will work together to gradually decommodify grain crops. I think this may improve the lot of the small farmer, by distinguishing products in the marketplace, and by creating opportunities to manage crops to specifically enhance an end-use property. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 12:00:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23698 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:00:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17088 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:58:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17046 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 10:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:01:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'eabird@facstaff.wisc.edu'" Subject: FW: you're invited - $ available for Community Research Network Conference Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 11:01:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 613 -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Ann R. Bird [mailto:eabird@facstaff.wisc.edu] Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:53 AM To: san@nal.usda.gov Subject: you're invited - $ available for Community Research Network Conference Hi Andy -- would you please forward this to the sanet list? Thanks, Elizabeth Hello friends -- Please check http://www.loka.org for information about the upcoming Community Research Network annual conference organized by the Loka Institute. CSARE is co-sponsoring the conference, called "What Works, What Doesn't? Community-Based Research and Strategies for Change." We know it's a rotten time for many in agriculture, but there will be some great sessions (both ours that are food and agriculture oriented and others that deal with all kinds of community-based research issues). This conference will be especially useful to producers interested and/or engaged in farm-based research, organizers of farmer-research networks or community-based research, researchers involved with producers or community groups, and organizers or leaders of institutional change. As far as I know, the Loka Institute still has some scholarship funds available to disburse. The scholarship application is on the web site. Thanks! Elizabeth Please come to Amherst, MA June 10-June 13 for a great gathering of community research activists and practitioners. The following is a run-down of CSARE's engagement in the conference. More conference info at http://www.loka.org. There's a lot happening the first day of the Community Research Network (CRN) Conference. All day Thursday, June 10 there will be a Symposium on Public Health Implications of Genetic Engineering: Applying the Precautionary Principle sponsored by the new Association for Science in the Public Interest. >From 4:00pm -- 6:00pm Thursday, June 10, Barbara Rusmore will conduct her workshop on how to facilitate farmer-research networks. This is one of the workshop curricula published last fall in CSARE's Quality of Life professional development series. >From 2:00pm -- 6:00pm Thursday, June 10, CSARE will hold an Institutional Change Theory Workshop (opening session). Presenter: Duane Dale CSARE will devote an entire track to Institutional Change throughout the conference. The opening session will focus upon understanding the dynamics of institutions, how change occurs, and how to promote it. Sessions and a closing workshop will be offered on this track on Friday and Saturday. See below. (Sponsored by CSARE and the Loka Institute) Friday, June 11 and Saturday, June 12 Sessions in the Institutional Change track: Bridging the Culture Gap and Building Productive Relationships CSARE Presenters: Barbara Rusmore, Debra Mason, & TBA Community-Based Research as a Tool for Organizing Presenters: Randy Stoecker and Adrian Falcon Overcoming the Institutional Barriers of Conducting Community-Based Research CSARE Presenters: Elizabeth Bird and Carolyn Raffensperger Reclaiming the Land Grant Universities and the Role of Extension CSARE Presenters: John Gerber, Scott Marlow, and Scott Peters How Institutions Change CSARE Presenters: Duane Dale and John Gerber On Saturday afternoon, the primary interest groups break-out sessions will include 1) for institutional change advocates: putting the institutional change training into practice; and 2) for producers: some nuts and bolts in conducting farm-based research (design, data gathering and management, and interpretation of results). CSARE will also be sponsoring two workshops on proposal writing. The first session will focus on how to develop good projects, and use A Guide to USDA and Other Federal Resources for Sustainable Agriculture and Forestry Enterprises to discuss how to identify appropriate funding sources. During the second session there will be two concurrent breakout sessions about writing fundable proposals. One will focus upon effective farmer initiated grant proposals (particularly to the SARE program). The other upon a broad range of proposals. (CSARE Presenters: Margaret Krome, Cris Carusi, Teresa Maurer) For a full conference schedule and a registration and scholarship application form, contact directly: CRN Conference www.loka.edu 413-559-5860 loka@amherst.edu For information specifically on the institutional change training workshops, contact: Kim Leval (National Public Policy Coordinator for CSARE) 541-687-1490 kimleval@earthlink.net We hope to see you there! Sincerely, Elizabeth Bird and Blake Ferris The Consortium for Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (CSARE) is a member organization devoted to helping people (scientists, farmers, activists, educators) improve the practice of food and agricultural research and education in the public interest, and promoting policy changes that will assist this. =========================================================== Elizabeth Bird, Executive Director Consortium for Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education c/o CIAS 1450 Linden Dr. Rm. 146 Madison, WI 53706 (608)265-6483 or 249-5796; FAX: (608)265-3020 email: eabird@facstaff.wisc.edu www.csare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 12:13:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24133 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA24985 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:09:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from foe.org (No.Such.Address.at.Essential.ORG [216.0.124.66] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA24850 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FOE-Message_Server by foe.org with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 05 May 1999 10:59:38 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 10:59:08 -0400 From: "valerie frances" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Food Irradiation Comment Period Deadline Approaching Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA24885 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 614 ============================================================== Public Citizen's Critical Mass Energy Project ============================================================== Unless you act by May 18, the Nuclear Industry Will Succeed in Forcing Irradiated Food Down Our Throats! *** A new Food and Drug Administration (FDA) rule would allow manufacturers to sell irradiated food without any label warning consumers. By nullifying the chief obstacle to the expanded use of radiation --consumer opposition-- this rule would pave the way for a significant expansion of the sale of irradiated food and give a boost to the nuclear industry. This would be a disaster!!! *** Over 550 new facilities would need to be built to irradiate various foodstuffs if irradiation expands to according to industry projections. *** Food irradiation facilities have a frightening record of accidents and other safety incidents. *** According to a Carnegie-Mellon study, operating irradiators just to treat meat and poultry (much less spices, wheat, and other foodstuffs) would be extremely risky, with a 99.7% chance of multiple major incidents at these facilities (a major incident is defined by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) as "those that result in a release or spill of radioactive material, bodily harm, or a long term shut down of the facility"). *** The long term health effects of eating irradiated food are unknown. Irradiation reduces the vitamin content of food and creates new chemical substances called radiolytic products. Some of these substances are known carcinogens, like benzene, and others are completely new substances that have not been tested for toxicity. *** ACT NOW!!! *** ** What you can do today ** *** Please write to the FDA and demand that the comment period be extended past May 18. Tell the FDA that food treated with radiation be indefinitely labeled with the radura (the international symbol for irradiated food) and a statement indicating it was treated with radiation. Say the absence of such a statement would be misleading because irradiation destroys vitamins and causes changes in sensory and spoilage qualities that are not obvious or expected by the consumer. Please DO NOT write a general statement opposing irradiation. The powers that be have already approved irradiation, we can only fight to keep the public informed (A sample letter can be found below). *** Write your Representative and Senators, telling them to oppose the FDA rule (a sample letter can be found below). *** Send this e-mail to as many concerned citizens as possible. When writing to FDA, refer to Docket #98N-1038, "Irradiation in the production, processing, and handling of food". Send comments before May 18, 1999 to: Dockets Management Branch (HFA-305) Food and Drug Administration 5630 Fishers Lane, Room 1061 Rockville, MD 20852 or Send e-mail to FDADockets@oc.fda.gov and/or FDADockets@fda.gov (Put Docket #98N-1038 in the subject line) NOTE: E-mail is discouraged because e-mails are often thrown out. A written letter is the most effective means of communication. SAMPLE LETTER TO FDA: Dockets Management Branch (HFA-305) Food and Drug Administration 5630 Fishers Lane, Room 1061 Rockville, Maryland 20852 Re: Docket No. 98N-1038, Irradiation in the Production, Processing, and Handling of Food To whom it may concern: I support the recommendation by the Center for Science in the Public Interest regarding labeling of irradiated foods: "any foods, or any foods containing ingredients that have been treated by irradiation, should be labeled with a written statement on the principal display panel indicating such treatment. The statement should be easy to read and placed in close proximity to the name of the food and accompanied by the international symbol. If the food is unpackaged, this information should be clearly displayed on a poster in plain view and adjacent to where the product is displayed for sale." Like other labels, irradiation labels are required by the FDA to be truthful and not misleading. I believe that the terms "treated with radiation" or "treated by irradiation" should be retained. Any phrase involving the word "pasteurization" is misleading because pasteurization is an entirely different process of rapid heating and cooling. I recognize the radura as information regarding a material fact of food processing. The requirement for irradiation disclosure (both label and radura) should not expire at any time in the future. The material fact of processing remains. Even if some consumers become familiar with the radura, new consumers (e.g., young people, immigrants) will not be. The symbol should be clearly understandable at the point of purchase for everyone. If there is no label, consumers will be misled into believing the food has not been irradiated. I urge you to extend the comment period past its current end date of May 18 to allow more concerned citizens the time to write in about this issue. Also, please place the comments received on the Internet so that the public can be informed about who is participating in this comment process. Sincerely, SAMPLE LETTER TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND SENATORS The Honorable [ ] Washington, D.C. [ ] Senator/Representative [ ], I have recently been made aware of a frightening development at the Food and Drug Administration. Under pressure from food manufacturers and supporters of the nuclear industry, the FDA is considering a rule that would remove labeling requirements for foods treated with radiation. The public only has until May 18 to voice its objections to this rule. Currently, any food treated with radiation during the production process is labeled with a symbol known as a radura (the international symbol for irradiated foods) and either a statement saying "treated with radiation" or "treated by irradiation." The rule before the FDA would allow manufacturers to sell any and all irradiated foods to the consumer with nary a mention of the use of radiation during processing. This is bad for consumers. Despite the fact that the FDA has determined that radiation is safe for food, many consumers, including myself, do not want to eat foods treated with radiation. Radiation changes the texture, taste, nutritional value, and chemical composition of foods. Radiation creates a heretofore unseen class of unique radiolytic products that have never been tested for their possible carcinogenic effects on humans. These are things that I do not want to put into my body. This is a clear cut issue of a consumer being able to know what is in their food. We know what the fat, protein, carbohydrate, and vitamin content is in our food, why can we not know whether our food has been treated with radiation emanating from some of the most deadly substances known to man? I implore you, as a constituent and a friend, to write a letter to the FDA about this issue and ask them why your constituents should be kept in the dark about whether their food has been irradiated and why the comment period has been so short. Enclosed you will find the letter that I wrote to the FDA about this issue. I hope it is helpful in formulating your own comments. Sincerely, ====================================================== Questions about the CMEP-list can be directed to cmep@citizen.org ======================================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 13:02:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25426 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:02:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29424 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:09:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29384 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:12:42 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: New open forum on biotechnology in agriculture Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:12:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 615 -----Original Message----- From: scott fuller [mailto:smf13@cornell.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 2:30 AM To: aclark@nal.usda.gov Subject: New open forum on biotechnology in agriculture -=-=-=---=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-= (Apologize for cross listings while simultaneously spreading the word): Please share this with your local groups (especially universities) or individuals who may be interested. Thanx. Scott Introducing a new listserve on biotechnology in agriculture and foods. (Incepted 4/15/99-currently over 90 on list from all over the US and the world!) biotech-L@cornell.edu A group of Cornell students has formed around the issue of genetically modified organisms (GMO), particularly pertaining to agricultural commodities and foods. The list welcomes all views but may mostly be engaged in informing ourselves, the greater community and Cornellians on the potential concerns of GMOs in agriculture. Postings are preferred which deal with biotechnology in agriculture. Otherwise, the range and complexity of information could be overwhelming. This list is created by a new group of active Cornell students called: People for Responsible Biotechnology in Agriculture. The group is not limited only to students. Cornell faculty and staff, researchers, farmers, and community members are invited to participate in this open forum. To get on this list send an email to: listproc@cornell.edu In message text write: SUB biotech-L your name No commas or periods and all on the same line. (To unsubscribe do the same but put UNSUB rather than SUB.) To receive the digest form (only one email a day with all the postings listed in an index) send and email (after subscribing) to listproc@cornell.edu In the text write: set BIOTECH-L mail digest Items can also be posted to biotech-L@cornell.edu (biotech and L are not case sensitive) without being subscribed to it. For more info contact Scott Fuller (smf13@cornell.edu) =-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 13:21:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25890 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:21:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA16659 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:34:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA16553 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.96]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:38:23 -0500 Message-ID: <373072C6.7C0E97B3@cillnet.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 11:33:10 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: weeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 616 I am going through transition to organics and I have weeds in my oats( rye vetch grass etc.) and I was considering mowing . Do you think this might work. Sincerely Floyd To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 13:23:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25927 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA10730 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:27:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10701 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10069; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905051627.JAA10069@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:30:15 -0700 Subject: FW: Bats Enlisted to Gobble Up Earworm Pests From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 617 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Bats Enlisted to Gobble Up Earworm Pests Date: Wed, May 5, 1999, 8:24 AM STORY LEAD: Bats Enlisted to Gobble Up Earworm Pests ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 5, 1999 Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- In early June, billions of corn earworm moths emerge from the Lower Rio Grande Valley along the border of Texas and Mexico. Some moths feed on cotton after leaving southern corn, while others travel north to ravage midwestern corn crops. Each year, these pests cost farmers about $2 billion in losses and control costs. To control the moths, Agricultural Research Service scientists in College Station, Texas, are capitalizing on the voracious appetite of Mexican free-tailed bats. Corn earworm moths are one of the bats' favorite foods. A million bats can gobble up nearly 10 tons of insects in just one night. So the 20 million bats living in Bracken Cave near San Antonio, Texas, could put a real dent in moth populations. ARS meteorologist John K. Westbrook, who has studied moth migration for 17 years, knows that bats and moths typically fly at about the same altitude. His collaborative work with bat specialist Gary F. McCracken of the University of Tennessee and Merlin Tuttle of Bat Conservation International is secondary to his main interest: moth migration. To confirm the bats' appetite for moths, Westbrook attached radiomicrophones to helium-filled balloons called tetroons. While the tetroons drifted at an altitude of about 2,500 feet, the researchers could hear and record the high-frequency sounds of bats searching for and feeding on moths. The National Weather Service's Doppler radar system (NEXRAD) helps the researchers detect masses of moths more than 60 miles away from a radar site, one of which is located in Brownsville, Texas. Like firefighters putting out the "hot spots" first, the NEXRAD radar research may be used to develop time-critical maps to help control moth infestations over a large area. ARS' Areawide Pest Management Research in College Station has one of the most active radar-entomology research programs in the world. An article about the research appears on the May issue of Agricultural Research magazine and can be found on the world wide web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/pest0599.htm ARS is the USDA's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: John K. Westbrook, ARS Areawide Pest Management Research Unit, College Station, Texas, phone (409) 260-9351, fax (409) 260-9386, j-westbrook@tamu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 13:49:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26548 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA00208 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:59:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00186 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.136]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA15338 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:56:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990505115724.006f3d8c@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 11:57:24 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: De-commodification of grain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA00189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 618 Dale Wilson wrote: >As specific, value-added traits, especially quality traits are incorporated >in grain varieties (transgenically or by traditional breeding), a major >concern in the seed industry is how to capture some of that value. Grain as >a standard commodity does not make it very easy for the seed industry to >capture value from many kinds of improvements. > >I believe that public fear of genetic engineering and the desire of the >milling and seed industries for identity-preserved grain, will work together >to gradually decommodify grain crops. I think this may improve the lot of >the small farmer, by distinguishing products in the marketplace, and by >creating opportunities to manage crops to specifically enhance an end-use >property. > >Dale This is an insightful comment, Dale. (I would only add that an imporant "quality trait" is not being transgenic). I think this is part of w broader process in the food industry, and not restrictied to grains. This is really what organic foods are all about. It is still too early to bea able to say that this decommidification trend will dominate, yet it does offer a very different possible future. In a decommodified food industry, the small farmer could be at a real advantage over the large food corporation. My own view is, that for this reason, smallholders are the future of food production in most sectors. > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 14:57:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28465 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:57:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA03461 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:55:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03416 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA06139 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phcglen (12.2.59.36) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Wed, 05 May 99 12:56:01 CDT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990505174714.006aacb8@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 11:47:14 -0600 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: organic taking over UK market Cc: roger@provender.net Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 619 Hello-- the following statement appeared in an e-newsletter sent out by a food vendor in England: >Nationally sales of organic food are growing at a rate such that, if it were to >continue at the same rate, 80% of all the food we eat will be organic by the year 2010. The vendor received this information at a symposium held in London. He (Roger Biddle of Wessex Provender Foods) gave this explanation: >You probably know that we have >just been through the BSE saga with virtually the whole of >the British Beef herd being destroyed. It has cost the >British taxpayer more than the bill for world war two in >addition to the health risk!! The British consumer is >therefore ultra wary of anyone messing with their food and >are increasingly turning to organic foods as a result. Wouldn't it be neat if the US could look forward to 80% organic in 10 years? Jane Sooby University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer High Plains Ag Lab 3257 Rd. 109 Sidney, NE 69162 308-254-3918 308-254-2402 (FAX) 308-254-0725 (HOME) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 15:07:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28669 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20391 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:18:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (stat49.webserf.net [204.77.122.49] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA20381 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905051818.OAA20381@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.133] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AB52210578; Wed, 05 May 1999 13:17:54 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 18:17:14 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: De-commodification of grain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 620 On Wed, 05 May 1999 11:57:24 -0500, Ronald Nigh wrote: >offer a very different possible future. In a decommodified food industry, >the small farmer could be at a real advantage over the large food >corporation. My own view is, that for this reason, smallholders are the >future of food production in most sectors. I'm not so optimistic. As character-specific foodstuffs become raw materials for industry, food processors, or specific markets I fear the tendency will be to do it all through contracts. Hogs bred/engineered for leanness, for example, are already going down that road, and the producer trying to deliver a load of "off-type" hogs for slaughter (or even custom slaughter) may be turned away. There are not yet any compelling or readily apparent reasons why grain, vegetables (high vitamin A carrots, anyone), or other farm products will not follow the lean hog model now developing. The tendency is very much towards shifting as much of the production risk as possible onto individuals and keeping as much of the profit potential as possible within the corporation. That is usually done with contracts, and it would seem that character-specific production makes it easier (not harder) to impose and enforce those sorts of contracts. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 15:11:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28797 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21194 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:23:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21182 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id NAA17114 (8.9.1/50); Wed, 5 May 1999 13:23:10 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990427120143.00695898@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:01:43 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Pesticides glitch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 621 As many of you know, our collegues in Washington D.C. are working to implement the Food Quality Protection Act. FQPA was intended to more strictly regulate pesticides that are most risky to human health. Part of that process involved a stakeholder process - the Tolerance Reassessment Advisory Committee -- made up of representatives of industry and the public interest. Last week on April 27, the public interest groups resigned. Below is a note to those of us working on pesticide reduction strategies and a letter to Robertson and Rominger from Sarah Lynch at the World Wildlife Fund outlining why WWF and other public representatives on the committee resigned. I forwarded this letter and my commments to the editor of our local paper. You may want to do the same. Michelle Miller -------------------------------------------- Dear Wisconsin Friends: Tomorrow, on the morning of the next TRAC meeting the public interest group members of the TRAC plan to resign. My letter captures several of the key problems from our perspective. Decisions like this are always difficult to make. They come down to whether the process holds any hope of generating enough benefits to justify the committment of financial and human resources. At this juncture, for me it does not. If any of you have any questions are comments, please feel free to call and talk to me about this decision. Sarah The Honorable Peter Robertson, Deputy Administrator U.S. Environmental Protection Agency 401 M Street SW Washington, DC 20460 The Honorable Richard Rominger Deputy Secretary of Agriculture 14th Street and Independence Avenue NW Washington, DC 20250 Dear Deputy Administrator Robertson and Deputy Secretary Rominger: A year ago you asked me to serve as a member of the EPA-USDA Tolerance Reassessment Advisory Committee (TRAC). In your invitation you stated that there would be four public meetings and that our term of service would end in September 1998. You explained the charge given to the TRAC by Vice President Gore in his April 8 letter was to apply sound science in decision making, make the regulatory process transparent, enhance consultations with stakeholders, and provide strategies for a reasonable transition for agriculture. I participated actively in the TRAC process. I appreciated having the opportunity to make two presentations at TRAC meetings on World Wildlife Fund's work on transition strategies in agriculture. The TRAC process, I believe has contributed to improvements in stakeholder understanding of the process and challenges EPA, USDA and the regulated community face in implementing FQPA. However, at the end of the fifth TRAC meeting on September 15-16, 1998 I conveyed my opposition to additional TRAC meetings. I was concerned that limited Agency financial and human resources were being diverted away from the work needed to meet the August 1999 deadline for reassessing a third of the food tolerances, with a focus on those food tolerances that pose the greatest risk. I reiterated my reservations about additional TRAC meetings in a January 18, 1999 memo co-signed by several other public interest groups. In this memo I informed you that my continued participation on the TRAC was contingent upon reasonable progress in the following two areas (1) the Agency needed to demonstrate its intention to meet the August 1999 deadline for reviewing most if not all of the organophosphate tolerances and its resolve to initiate, where appropriate, regulatory actions to mitigate excessive risks identified through the FQPA risk assessment process and 2) USDA and EPA needed to develop and put forth for public comment a credible transition plan for agriculture. We are now three scant months away from the August 19899 deadline. While EPA will succeed in reaching the goal of reassessing a third of the food tolerances on the books, they have not yet reassessed the tolerances for the priority pesticides that pose the greatest risk to kids, farm workers and/or the environment. No decision on that subset of high-risk pesticides leaves everyone-kids, farmers, farm workers, food processors, consumers and our precious biodiversity-vulnerable. The inability of this Administration to make hard choices in the face of uncertainty does not mean that continued use of these pesticides are safe, but instead that EPA could not meet its statutory deadlines. Rapidly evolving scientific knowledge about the potential impacts of toxic chemicals on humans, wildlife, and ecosystem functions certainly involves some uncertainties. Sometimes there is complexity in determining the extent of environmental health problems, and we often are missing certain types of information. Continued inaction carries with it manifest risks to children's health, workers, and the environment. EPA cannot expect to garner consensus in the near term from all stakeholders as to the harms resulting from reliance on all pesticides. Faced with uncertainty, EPA must apply the precautionary approach embraced in FQPA. The agency must decide how to implement the law using defensible science, and, as charged by the Act and as articulated by President Clinton, make hard decisions under this law that "puts the safety of our children first." Sound science does not mean consensus on the science, transparency does not require full agreement on decision making, and consultation does not oblige endless debate. Confusion over these terms has resulted in the equivalent of a "Melissa virus" in the EPA decision making process. Leaving the doors open for continual input of data, studies, and stakeholder opinions on science and policy interpretation has clogged the decision making network and brought the regulatory process to a near standstill. No FQPA-driven decisions on the handful of key pesticide uses that underlie risks to kids, farmers, farm workers, and the environment is a benefit for only those that are currently profiting from the status quo. The lack of regulatory action on high profile risk drivers also exposes farmers, food processors, and retailers to economic risks from eroding consumer confidence in the safety of our food system. In the face of this uncertainty, many processors and retailers have elected to implement their own, more stringent, standards to protect their markets. Therefore, the question must be asked, "who benefits from the current regulatory stand still?" Not kids, not the environment, and not significant portions of the food system. On a personal note, I believe that the FQPA, in tandem with other environmental laws, offers an historic opportunity for forging linkages between agricultural and environmental interests which could result in renewed public investments in identifying and accelerating adoption of environmentally and economically viable farming systems. Failure to implement the Act undermines the bold actions taken by many farmers, food processors, researchers, independent crop consultants, and agriculture input suppliers to meet the challenge of producing food and fiber for the world in economically and environmentally sustainable ways. Weakening the regulatory hammer will make the courageous actions of the agricultural leaders, like the farmers I work with in Wisconsin, who are taking risks to get ahead of the regulatory curve seem foolish if the rewards, at least in the short run, go to farmers who remain intransigent. Is this the message that EPA and USDA want to perpetuate-those that fight safer food production systems and a cleaner environment will be rewarded? None of us can afford to let this be the FQPA take home message. As you know, I am especially interested in contributing to the development of strategies to transition agriculture away from reliance on high-risk pesticides and toward farming systems that are environmentally and economically viable. However, I do not believe this can be achieved through the TRAC. I am therefore, informing you of my decision to resign from the TRAC effective immediately. If and when EPA and USDA take the kinds of actions that are needed to mitigate excessive risk and put forth a credible transition plan, I would be willing to reconsider my participation. Sincerely, Sarah Lynch Senior Program Officer Michelle Miller 1233 Jenifer St., #1 Madison, WI 53703 608/255-1503 fax 255-5885 mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu http://www.uwex.edu/ces/susag http://www.uwex.edu/ces/susconf. Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 15:24:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29248 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 15:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA00574 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:36:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00492 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from schilling.ucdavis.edu (root@schilling.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07118 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Liebhardt (ars97.ucdavis.edu [169.237.82.97]) by schilling.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.10) with SMTP id LAA15813; Wed, 5 May 1999 11:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905051835.LAA15813@schilling.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: fzliebha@mailbox.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 13:35:45 -0700 To: fjohnson@cillnet.com From: Bill Liebhardt Subject: Re: weeds Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <373084DA.B6D5589A@cillnet.com> References: <199905051731.KAA23150@schilling.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 622 At 12:50 PM 5/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >Bill, We are starting a 4 year rotation. Where we have the most trouble >is in an old rye & vetch cover crop I disked to plant the oats . I am >planing to harvest the oats for grain and have red clover inter seeded >.Right now our oats are about 3 or 4 inches tall with weeds a lot taller >we live in central Illinois.At the time I disked the field it looked >dead so I thought 1 disking would do but I have quite a bit of growth >out there. Floyd, not an easy thing to predict what might happen. If you were to mow it all I think it would still all come back but the oats would have a more even chance. However mowing would delay it all and I suspect the yield would be quite low due to the delay. A second option would be make silage or hay out of the whole thing at the milk to dough stage for the oats and rye. A third option would be to just let it all go and harvest it as grain and take it to a seed dealer or place that has the ability to separate the seed. You could then sell the various components separately. I would check this out early, like now to see if that is possible in your area. If you have animals you could separate out the vetch to sell or seed and feed the grain. I am not sure when this would all be ready for harvest and if the three species have will be ready to combine at the same time. That could present problems for you if they do not. It would also keep the crop out there longer which could impact the red clover adversely. Cutting it for hay or silage would get it off earlier and avoid many of the problems I have mentioned but if you do not have animals then you would have to find a market for your hay. These are some of the options I would see for you-not a clear cut choice from my view but you have a better sense of the long term and where you want to go and what you are trying to do. Maybe one of the options will work much better for you than the others. I would be interested in what you decide to do and how it works out. Best Wishes on this, Bill Liebhardt > >Bill Liebhardt wrote: >> >> At 11:33 AM 5/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >I am going through transition to organics and I have weeds in my oats( >> >rye vetch grass etc.) and I was considering mowing . Do you think this >> >might work. >> >> Floyd, it would help if you were more specific about what you have and what >> you would like to happen. Do you want to harvest the oats for hay or >> grain? Is there a legume-grass such as alfalfa/grass seeded with the oats >> or is it oats alone? Are you using the oats to get ready for another crop? >> >> Let me know more about this and I will try to help. Where are you located? >> >> Bill >> > >> > >> > Sincerely Floyd >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 18:22:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06091 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA02181 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 17:23:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA02165 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 17:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01038 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 17:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA27686 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 16:23:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199905052123.QAA27686@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:23:13 -0500 Subject: Thanks/Echinacea X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 623 Howdy, all-- Just wanted to post a quick global thanks to cover the dozens of you who responded to my call for reviewers, or leads to reviewers, for CIAS's forthcoming piece assessing Echinacea as an alternative crop. My colleague Don Schuster, who is drafting that piece, was very pleased at the fabulous leads we got. Just what we needed, when we needed it. THANK YOU so much. As we get this piece developed, you'll hear more about it, so you all can read it too. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, folks, this is a democracy, and in a democracy the cynics don't decide who's elected to office unless you let them--unless they're the only ones who vote. We decide. --U.S. Rep. Tammy Baldwin, WI To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 18:49:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06499 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23597 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:03:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23534 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01645 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([148.233.240.84]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 17:03:02 -0500 Message-ID: <199905051702050680.000A6C4A@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:02:05 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "sanet" Subject: The demand for whole, cured organic vanilla? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA23543 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 624 Both natural (not certified) and OCIA certified whole, semi (air) dried vanilla from eighteen indigenous Indian communities located deep in the mountains of Mexico's Papaloapan Basin are available, in small to moderate quantities and five grades of quality (which relates primarily to the size of the pod). Vanilla itself is native to the area and the eighteen groups of farmers are united cooperatively in a Union and have asked me to help them offer their crop to appreciative buyers. I am uncertain if whole vanilla is ever marketed as such directly to consumers (or to ice cream makers or bakers, for that matter), since vanilla extract is the form I've seen offered. Still, coffee beans are sometimes sold whole and prepared by those who want the ultimate in a fresh beverage, but does this also apply to vanilla? Any serious and informative response will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Douglas M. Hinds, Director Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (Center for Community and Rural Development, Non-profit Association) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 Mexico U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412-6308 (direct - Cd. Guzman, Jalisco) Tel. & Fax: 011 528 922-2424 (direct - Reynosa, Tamaulipas) e-mail: cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx, dmhinds@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 18:50:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06503 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23423 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:02:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23417 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.137]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA17674 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 16:59:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990505170128.00709080@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:01:28 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: organic taking over UK market Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA23418 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 625 >Wouldn't it be neat if the US could look forward to 80% organic in 10 years? >Jane Sooby > >University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician >Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer > > Dear Jane, Would it be neat? How would we provide 80% of the US food market by 2010 and maintain anything like the organic standards we have today? Could it be done??? regards, Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 18:59:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06700 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA25312 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25307 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 18:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.137]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA19372 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 17:06:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990505170752.0070ac1c@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:07:52 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: De-commodification of grain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA25308 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 626 >On Wed, 05 May 1999 11:57:24 -0500, Ronald Nigh wrote: > >>offer a very different possible future. In a decommodified food industry, >>the small farmer could be at a real advantage over the large food >>corporation. My own view is, that for this reason, smallholders are the >>future of food production in most sectors. > >I'm not so optimistic. As character-specific foodstuffs become raw >materials for industry, food processors, or specific markets I fear the >tendency will be to do it all through contracts. Hogs bred/engineered >for leanness, for example, are already going down that road, and the >producer trying to deliver a load of "off-type" hogs for slaughter (or >even custom slaughter) may be turned away. > >There are not yet any compelling or readily apparent reasons why grain, >vegetables (high vitamin A carrots, anyone), or other farm products >will not follow the lean hog model now developing. The tendency is very >much towards shifting as much of the production risk as possible onto >individuals and keeping as much of the profit potential as possible >within the corporation. That is usually done with contracts, and it >would seem that character-specific production makes it easier (not >harder) to impose and enforce those sorts of contracts. > >Bart Hall > >Lawrence, Kansas > Interesting point, Bart. I guess this is really what it is all about today. Will we be driven into a contract farming system where "quality traits" are "engineered" into industrial foods? Or will farmers and consumers get together and decide to get serious about healthy organic food? I don't know the answer but I am working for the latter solution. regards, Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 5 23:14:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA12084 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA15409 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:13:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15398 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:13:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA04979 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (541) by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id vVEZa04813 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:11:53 EDT Subject: CCFL/OTTAWA/99 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA15400 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 627 ACRES,USA: A Journal of Regenerative Agriculture T R A N S I T I O N S by Steven Sprinkel 26 April 1999 Codex Report At the end of April, the Codex Committee on Food Labeling (CCFL) met in Ottawa, Canada. The most important issues on the Codex agenda this year were the guidelines for mandatory Labeling of Foods Obtained through Biotechnology and guidelines for Organically Produced Foods. The CCFL is one regulatory branch of the Codex Alimentarius Commission. An organization that uses Latin to describe itself may need a bit of explanation, although ACRES has been reporting since 1995 on the work of this international commission empowered through the UN Food and Agriculture Organization and World Health Organization to develop trade harmonization for peculiar and not so extraordinary things we eat. As food continues to be more industrially specialized and processed, even milk, fish sticks, and organic apples need clarification. In trade negotiation we observe that occasionally apples are not always apples because politics is capable of the slight-of-hand required to turn them into oranges. Or even bananas. Some of the discussions were mind-numbingly, sometimes purposefully, obscure. What will it all mean? The World Trade Organization will increasingly use Codex as its baseline in settling trade disputes. The WTO operates under the General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs ( GATT), AKA, The Uruguay Round. The Codex Committee is composed of member countries, represented formally by government officials, for example, the US Food and Drug Administration, the USDA National Organic Program and the USDA Foreign Agriculture Service. In addition to the US representatives, among the most outspoken authorities at the Ottawa organic meeting were the European Community, Sweden, France, Argentina, and Canada. In this unusual regulatory framework non-governmental organizations like the Rural Advancement Foundation International ( RAFI), Consumers International and the International Federation of Organic Farming Movements (IFOAM) also were authorized to speak and affect outcomes. The US delegation also includes private sector representatives, chosen because of their expertise in the given field under discussion. This year the Organic Farmers Marketing Association, The Organic Trade Association, and Coleman Natural Products advised the official US delegation. Consensus is the goal, and is achieved by much discussion. The meeting brings together a fascinating mix of parties, exposing the representative from the International Food Additives Council and the International Dairy Federation to the perspectives raised by the Consumers Union, the Japan Offspring Fund and organic farmers from coastal France like IFOAM President Herve La Prairie. Much education and networking occurs outside the cavernous Government Conference Centre. The specific details of some organic standards proved difficult to harmonize to the satisfaction of all the participants. The ironies are literally amazing. The United States general trade position usually tends to support the laissez-faire needs of multinational corporations, but in the organic realm it is the USDA requesting a more absolutist definition for organic livestock production. Some European countries, for example, prefer exemptions on the requirement for 100% organic livestock feeds and seek five-year conversion periods. Meanwhile, in the general Codex background, the specter of the politically powerful US-based biotechnology industry looms, insisting that there be no guidelines whatsoever for labeling genetically engineered foods. Therefore, the US position on organic production was the more consumer-friendly perspective. USDA National Organic Program Director Keith Jones and Jim Riddle, representing IFOAMs International Accreditation Services as well as the Independent Organic Inspectors Association, debated the livestock section with some success, using the Organic Foods Production Act of 1990 as precedent for their arguments. Much improvement was made on the general materials criteria for organic production, and though the livestock standards were not moved forward towards authorization, harmonization was advanced by the Organic Working Group, which deliberated for three full days before the official meeting, drafting and redrafting texts. However, aquaculture and apiculture were not included in the Codex organic livestock document. Concomitantly, these same production sectors have yet to be fully addressed by the National Organic Standards Board, which meets again in June. Some may ask: " What sort of work is called progress ?" One answer would be that it seems now that the term " nature identical" may not be used in the final text of the Codex organic production guidelines. "Nature identical" is the term used to identify a manufactured product or production in-put that has an analog in nature: it could be isolated artificially by humans, for example, carbon dioxide. Eventually, "nature identical" fell out of favor to some who thought that it is absurd to imply that something is identical to nature, that it opened the door to the use of synthetics in organic production, and that in the era of genetic engineering, "nature identical" seems to have too much in common with "substantially equivalent", the terminology upon which anti-labeling forces base their arguments. Therefore, few organic adherents want much to do with "nature identical" any further. Deciphering the multiwoven texts ( I brought back around 15 pounds of new paper from Ottawa) can be awesomely stupifying; there is no logical entry point except at the beginning, but there is not enough space here to preamble the discussion. Form doesn't count as much as substance/content, but without it every brilliance would get dusted by the machine. Halloo Monsanto dot com! At times, the Codex organic participants seemed to be writing an International Extension Service Organic Production Manual. Frank Massong, representing Food Canada, repeatedly voiced concern that the proposed language was " prescriptive and paternalistic" in its approach. One tough nut that is at least half-cracked will be the assurance that organic livestock production does not imitate the factory-farming model, characterized by feedlots filled with cattle miles from where their feed is grown.. This standard of production will be among the most difficult to employ in the National Organic Program as well as internationally. Perhaps the most vexing aspect has more to do with taste and marketability than holistic production. Will consumers eat grass-fed beef because it is organic, although their taste buds are accustomed to a product finished on grain for 3-4 months prior to slaughter? The enforcement and trade aspects of Codex that are of utmost importance to producers and consumers: " What will it mean for domestic production and marketing? Does a weak international standard drag down a strong national standard?" Yes, international standards will have a negative affect on imports if Italian-made pasta includes eggs from chickens not fed 100% organic feed, and 100% organic feed is mandated in the US. It will also have a negative affect on exports, if European countries, or Korea and Japan, allow conventional grain in livestock production when Canada, the US and Australia might benefit from shipping organic livestock feeds in order to fulfill a stricter standard. A better answer than that can be found by asking the ultimate question: Should organic production be considered a Sanitary and Phyto-Sanitary ( SPS) concern or an issue that should be dealt with as a Technical Barrier to Trade (TBT)? This questions answer guides sovereign nations as well as the World Trade Organization. You may logically believe that organic farming has everything to do with health and the environment, which falls under the heading of a Sanitary and Phyto-Sanitary measure, but organic production standards have been designed so that Organic is perceived as a system of production. Organic is a system that is self-defined, and while keyed to parallel testing systems ( EPA Class 3 inerts for example) Organic exists outside the realm of measures such as the US Food Quality Protection Act. At this point we have to defer to the politics involved: regulators dont want to authorize products that indicate something is wrong with the rest of the food supply. Long ago governments refused to treat organic farming and its products as a health issue, prompting the creation of laws and standards which infer health and environmental protection only as a standard for this production system. Therefore, if Organic is going to be discussed within the context of Technical Barriers to Trade, it is important that international production standards be equivalent to the National Organic Program or one can be sure that there will be barriers to trade when cheese from French cows or goats not fed 100% organic feed hits the dock in New York City. Labeling Genetically Modified Organisms Twenty-three member countries and a number of International Non-Governmental Organizations (INGOs) were named in Ottawa, Canada to a Working Group on Biotechnology by Codex Committee Chair Anne MacKenzie of Canada. MacKenzie originally asked for the Working Group to be chaired by either representatives of the US, the European Community, or Canada. Robert Lake, the US Delegate, deferred the chairmanship to Canada in a gesture demonstrating that the leadership of the Working Group should be held by a more neutral Codex member. This was also agreed to by the EC representative. The "Proposed Draft Recommendations for the Labeling of Foods Obtained Through Biotechnology" remains at Step 3 in the Codex Committee procedure. Final implementation of labeling requirements are at least 4 years away, since Step 8 is regarded as the final authoritative action. Limited activity by INGO supporters of comprehensive labeling focused on moving the procedure immediately to Step 6 to emphasize the severity of the issues raised by consumers regarding ethics, the environment and allergenicity. However, this initiative was not brought to the floor. The Biotechnology Working Group will labor more intensively on developing labeling criteria for foods derived from Biotechnology. One of its first tasks will be determining the appropriate definition of foods derived from this production and processing technology. The April 28 morning meeting, with hundreds of delegates in attendance, identified that " foods derived from genetic engineering" may be a more appropriate term to employ than " foods derived from Biotechnology". Other proposed terms included " modern Biotechnology" and " Genetically modified foods". More comprehensive definitions and real-market descriptions of the products need to be created. According to a number of INGO attendees, the statements from member countries demonstrated an increased awareness of the concerns of consumers and the scientific community in comparison to the conceptualizations made at last year's Codex Committee meeting. It was also noted by Chairperson MacKenzie that, whereas 25% of members showed significant interest in comprehensive labeling in 1998, this year a clear majority of member countries now support labeling of one sort or another. One significant differentiation concerns those countries who have altered their position and now support labeling, but asked that pre-processed products such as sugar and oils be excluded from the labeling provisions. Owing to the fact that the greatest acreage planted to genetically modified foods is in oil products such as canola, soy and corn, and to a certain extent cotton these exclusions will therefore be ineffective in providing comprehensive labeling. The sugar angle primes the pump for GMO cane as well as beet sugar. Another issue that remained unclear in the realm of definitions is whether it would be more effective to alter the Codex title so that the labeling initiative would include "foods derived from, containing, or processed with genetically modified organisms". The formation of a Working Group potentially allows for more rapid development of labeling criteria and more intensive communication between the membership. The Market: Four Years Ahead of Regulators While the world-wide food regulatory establishment agreed to work more intensively in the coming year, the Market has been dropping one bombshell after another on the Biotech sector in response to consumer demands. When the big retailers in Europe agree to use GE-free products in their own store-branded products the effects are felt on the other side of the Atlantic. Archer Daniels Midland decreed that their corn handling facilities would be GE-free and the news sent seed suppliers and corn growers looking for alternatives. After Unilever, the world's largest food manufacturing company announced it was phasing out GE/GMO products, Nestle, another of the world's biggest food companies, announced that it was phasing out GM products as fast as possible. Thereafter it was Cadbury who followed suit. Meanwhile,Tesco, Britain's largest supermarket chain, said it would remove GM ingredients from its store- brand foods, joining Sainsbury, Safeway ( UK), Asda and Somerfield. Marketing gurus may be fond of saying that "consumers design the product" in our current era, but they may not know how far reaching that notion has become. Delivering authenticity is not as easy as merely slapping a sticker on the bag of "shade-grown coffee" or claiming that " no animal testing used" on a bottle of foreign-made shampoo. Layers of private as well as public oversight mean to maintain a measure of respectability, if not legitimacy, when producers place products before consumers that are calculated to satisfy environmental, social and health concerns, even when those concerns are not mandated by legislation. One concern that some regulators voice is that each new regulatory mandate seeks to provide oversight on aspects that are already being looked after. Of course, its obvious that the whole world is dancing around one big delusion: the way we live is wrecking the planet, not to mention our own health. If the EPA and the FDA were protecting the environment and human health up to the standards that consumers expect, there would be little reason for products making claims that infer that the rest of the competition is substandard. Politically we ignore the reality of corporate dominance and stand ready with plenty of Band-Aids and pain-killers, unwilling to pull the plug on chemicals. All the chemicals, no matter if they are herbicides, fuels, food processing aids, manufacturing derivatives and by-products or nuclear waste, should be called out for broadly public, responsible review-with changes brought forth.. By coincidence, the cutting edge of consumer protection now identifies that it isnt individual chemicals like BHA or Lindane that are of most grievous concern, but instead the evil soup we are exposed to when numerous pollutants are combined in the blood stream. GMO Crop Insurance Initiative for Organic Farmers As reported in March, I wrote a tidy letter to USDA Farm Service Agencys Risk Management division. Here is their reply. To cope with the lack of italics for this email the duplicate text serves to highlight. Dear Mr. Sprinkel: This is in further response to your March 11th e-mail inquiry to the Federal Crop Insurance Corporation (FCIC) which is administered by the Risk Management Agency (RMA). In your message, you expressed concern about the contamination of certified organically produced crops by accidental pollination from genetically modified organism (GMO) crops. You asked for assistance in determining how organic producers may obtain Federal crop insurance for GMO contamination. You stated that a valuable shipment of organically produced corn chips was refused in the marketplace in the European community after genetic analysis identified that the product contained GMO. In addition, you mention the importance of this issue and timing of the Department of Agriculture's authorization for an interim certified organic meat label. RMA program specialists have carefully reviewed your request. Unfortunately, however, RMA is unable to provide insurance coverage for the risk that you present, as FCIC is authorized under section 508(a)(1) of the Federal Crop Insurance Act only to insure against "... drought, flood, or other natural disaster ..." In essence, the situation that you describe with GMO contamination is akin to pollution damage, where one person permits a noxious substance to be discharged at one location and this substance does harm to a person or property at another location. Thus, this type of damage is not covered by FCIC as it is man-made rather than a natural disaster. In essence, the situation that you describe with GMO contamination is akin to pollution damage, where one person permits a noxious substance to be discharged at one location and this substance does harm to a person or property at another location. Thus, this type of damage is not covered by FCIC as it is man-made rather than a natural disaster. We regret we could not provide you with a more favorable response. Thank you again for your interest in the Federal crop insurance program. If you need further information, please let us know." Well, I guess at least one branch of USDA is willing to say that " GMO contamination is akin to pollution damage." As reported in last months issue: a "manageable risk is an insurable risk", and if GE proponents continue to say that GE agriculture is a manageable risk we should ask to see copies of their insurance policies. By the way, the next GMO issue observed lifting from the fog is a proposed ban on conventional livestock products from animals that consume GMO feeds. Next? Manure. -30- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 6 02:58:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA15024 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 02:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA26179 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 1999 01:59:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA26083 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 01:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.71]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 01:03:43 -0500 Message-ID: <37312F85.AC1D8098@cillnet.com> Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 00:58:29 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: markets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 628 Does any one know of a good market for Ohio FG 1 Soybeans grown in central Illinois . They are transitional and I have about 2000 Bu. Sincerely Floyd To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 6 11:19:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20964 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19011 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:17:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18904 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:17:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.214] (br-ppp08.hevanet.com [198.5.254.214]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA19594; Thu, 6 May 1999 07:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905061417.HAA19594@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 07:20:19 -0700 Subject: FW: Cattle Fill Ecological Niche Where Buffalo No Longer Roam From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 629 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Cattle Fill Ecological Niche Where Buffalo No Longer Roam Date: Thu, May 6, 1999, 6:44 AM STORY LEAD: Cattle Fill Ecological Niche Where Buffalo No Longer Roam ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 6, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- If the Central Great Plains can't have the buffalo back, the Plains should at least have a cow every 16 acres. This moderate grazing level makes for the most diverse and productive ecosystem, according to new findings of U.S. Department of Agriculture studies begun 60 years ago at the end of the Dust Bowl era. The Dust Bowl was named for the billions of tons of dry soil blown away during years of drought in the overcropped Plains. Arguably the century's worst farming, ecological, economic and social disaster, the Dust Bowl taught a costly lesson. Agriculture could thrive long term only when compatible with soil, water and other resources--and climate. After the Dust Bowl disaster, much of the Plains was returned to soil-protecting plants and grazing. Scientists have been working on determining grazing rates that would even out growth of individual plant species while preventing any from dominating in different parts of the Plains. In northern Colorado, that rate is one yearling heifer per 16 acres, and ranch profitability turns out to also be highest at this moderate level, according to researchers with the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency. ARS rangeland scientist Richard Hart and colleagues in Cheyenne, Wyo., conducted the studies on USDA's Central Plains Experimental Range near Nunn, Colo., about 40 miles south of Cheyenne. Yearling heifers have been grazed there five or six months a year since 1939. The range, established on abandoned Dust Bowl farms and ranches, is one of the world's longest running rangeland-grazing experiments. ARS scientists counted 46 plant species on moderately grazed land, 43 under heavy grazing and 36 under light grazing. Cattle weight gains dropped on heavily grazed land, since there were more mouths to feed and less forage to go around. Ungrazed land had 46 species but low biodiversity; pricklypear cactus dominated. A story on the research appears in the May issue of Agricultural Research and on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/plant0599.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Richard H. Hart, ARS Rangeland Resources Research Unit, Cheyenne, Wyo., phone (307) 772-2433, fax (307) 637-6124, rhart@lamar.colostate.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 6 12:27:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22781 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA03075 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:29:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA03034 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id KAA54522 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 6 May 1999 10:29:17 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990505155905.00707938@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 15:59:05 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, citnet-list@igc.org, ecomda@danenet.wicip.org From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: NTM -farmer perspective Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 630 Apologies for cross postings. Shirley and Randy Hamshire farm organically in Michigan and are leaders in developing new markets for commodities. -- m3 >Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 14:10:16 +0000 >From: randyhampshire >Hi all, just a few thoughts upon my return from the national town >meeting in detroit... >I was shocked and dismayed to see the lack of farmer input in this "town >hall meeting". I believe that Randy and I were the "only" farmers there >representing their own farms and personal ideas about the threat of >urban sprawl to American agriculture. There were few workshops that >even slightly pertained to farmers. At every opportunity (and they were >few) we pointed out this lack of representation from the farming >community, apparently no one else noticed, or cared? >Whoever organized this meeting did a poor job of covering the bases. >Maybe they thought that Dow and Monsanto represent us farmers? Urban >people are pretty selfish if they don't even recognize the effects their >migration has on farmers and their ability to farm. >Once upon a time, farmers earned incomes relatively equivalent to their >neighbors in town. We have lost that in America. If farmers can't get >parity prices, how can they hope to be able to compete in the bidding >price wars for farmland (or are they just developmentally-challenged >lots)? >Maybe I'm just a backward farm-girl, because after all, they did call it >a townhall meeting, NOT a town and country hall meeting! >shirley > > > > > Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 6 13:01:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23938 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA05434 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:19:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA05426 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id LAA15762 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 6 May 1999 11:18:59 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990506164849.007197f4@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 16:48:49 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: RE: NTM -farmer perspective Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 631 Another farmer perspective on NTM. m3 >From: Mary Steinmaus >Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:55:53 -0500 >Sorry we did not meet you. Four rural (some real farmers) women from Iowa >presented a learning session on Tuesday afternoon; I wish the Hamshires had >been able to attend. We had a great discussion and a super learning >session. People went away saying this was the BEST session they had >attended. > >On the other hand, I, too, was struck by the lack of rural representation >and workshop opportunities about farming and food production. This really >was a corporate affair. Although the Hamshires were not the "only" farmers >there, the meeting was so big, and farmers so few, it is not surprising we >did not meet. > >Mary > Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 6 19:15:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA03950 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 19:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA29446 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:26:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA29365 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA16665 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA22243 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:26:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199905062226.RAA22243@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 17:26:33 -0500 Subject: E. coli/ground beef recall X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 632 Howdy, all-- >From the ProMED list, thought this item might interest you food system watchers. peace mish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E. COLI, GROUND BEEF RECALL - USA (NEBRASKA) ******************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 19:46:05 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack An Omaha meat company recalled more than 80,000 pounds of ground beef suspected of being tainted with a deadly strain of the _E. coli_ bacteria, the company said Tuesday. There were no reported illnesses linked to the meat, according to All American Meats Inc President Shawn Buchanan. Buchanan said most of the 82,929 pounds of ground beef was sold and apparently consumed in Illinois, Indiana and Michigan. About 40 boxes of the meat, packaged for use by retailers, was still on the market and has been recovered, he said. The voluntary recall was ordered by the company after USDA inspectors found a positive sample of the _E. coli_ 0157:H7 bacteria Monday. The positive sample of ground beef was collected from product already on hold at a Jewel Food Store warehouse. Last week, Jewel recalled 500 lbs of ground beef after a routine USDA check found _E. coli_ 0157:H7 contamination. The virulent strain of _E. coli_ can cause bloody diarrhea, kidney failure and death in children, the elderly and others with weak immune systems. The U.S. Agriculture Department said the packages of meat, sold in 10-pound lots, were produced on April 14 and stamped with a "sell-by" date of April 28. Each package also was printed with "Est. 20420" indicating the plant where it was produced. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 6 21:30:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA05788 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 21:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA06927 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:48:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA06882 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA18581 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 20:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA27243 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 19:48:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199905070048.TAA27243@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 19:47:56 -0500 Subject: Re: organic taking over UK market In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990505170128.00709080@mail.internet.com.mx> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 633 Howdy, all-- I just wanted to comment quickly on this thread, which Jane and Ronald have spun: Jane wrote: > >Wouldn't it be neat if the US could look forward to 80% organic > >in 10 years? Ronald replied: > Would it be neat? How would we provide 80% of the US food market > by 2010 and maintain anything like the organic standards we have > today? Could it be done??? My first thought in response to Jane's question was..."Gack! I don't know but I'm willing to bet NOT!" But then I was feeling kinda curmudge-oid that day. :^D I mean, yes, it would be neat in the sense that it would be neat if, say, 80% of the racism, sexism, and homophobia in American society disappeared in 10 years. But practically speaking? Seems to me that ramping up the organic production system that far, that fast, would require infrastructural changes that are staggering. I'm basing that on my contacts/conversations with several clientele groups at CIAS: organic growers/producers, organic inspectors, organic processors (or processing co-ops), and organic retailers. For instance, think of the number of organic inspectors it would require simply to inspect the acreage that would provide that supply and the plants that would process it. As I understand from the inspectors I know or work with, certifiers have a hard enough time at present keeping a full cadre of inspectors at existing levels. I've predicted, here on SANET and elsewhere, that inspection may prove to be an increasingly difficult link in the organic system, over time, unless training and professional development of these people is ramped up as well as the market share and acreage. Then I think of the acres and number of farms that would need to make the transition in that time. The expertise and consulting they would need. The equipment. The inputs. The economic risk that some would need to take and live with and survive. The markets that would need to be constructed. The marketing information that would need to be prepared. The consumers who'd need to be cultivated (I'm not convinced that 80% of the present population will come around to organics) and educated. And then Ronald's question--could we maintain the standards? Maintaining standards is what the producer/inspector relationship is about...but at bottom, isn't that a somewhat policed thing (standards)? But perhaps it takes a raising of the bar to figure out how to hop over it. And so...I'd like to hear from some organic growers and processors and inspectors on this question. Any takers? Thinking out loud, quickly, and heading out the door to the soft, rainy, lilac-scented May evening in Madison. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 6 23:03:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07740 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 23:03:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA13440 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 1999 22:26:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.innernet.net ([207.121.52.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA13406 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 22:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tog-server [205.130.17.146] by mail.innernet.net (SMTPD32-5.01) id AFE28220108; Thu, 06 May 1999 22:28:50 EDT Message-ID: <000401be9830$bfbadfe0$3c7cfea9@tog-server> From: "Tuscarora Organic Growers Cooperative" To: "SANET" Subject: Re: Dan Glickman's speech Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:21:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 634 Misha wrote, in response to Dan Glickman: >I managed not to die laughing at his comment about biotechnology >being the "twin" of information technology. The only "twinning" I see >is where Marketing Weasels use the methods of persuasion and opinion >engineering to cram technologies down the throats of people who have >some very valid--and unanswered--questions about it. I call that the >Ministry of Truth Guns For Hire phenomenon, not "twinning." But I >digress. Do I remember correctly that a Monsanto PR guy was quoted in the New York Times Magazine (in that excellent potato cover-story), stating that Monsanto's goal was to become the "Windows Operating System of Agriculture?" (shiver) Extending the metaphor is tempting (e.g. who among us does Monsanto consider a "virus?")... but instead I'll just wait for your promised future thoughts on "biotech and information technology," Misha. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Christopher D. Fullerton, Manager Tuscarora Organic Growers Cooperative, Inc. HCR 71 Box 168-B Hustontown, PA 17229 (814) 448-2173 FAX (814) 448-2333 Pager (717) 262-1834 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 04:11:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA11485 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 04:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA12428 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 03:30:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from bc.mountain.net (root@BC.Mountain.Net [198.77.1.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA12368 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 03:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 198.77.38.179 (AM8-30.Franklin-WV.Mountain.Net [198.77.38.179]) by bc.mountain.net (8.9.2/8.9.0) with SMTP id DAA28784 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 03:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37329846.B64@access.mountain.net> Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 03:37:42 -0400 From: Mary Child Reply-To: maryc@access.mountain.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET Subject: [Fwd: (ise-discuss) Fwd: BIO ACTION ALERT 99] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 635 Received: from tao.ca (tao.ca [198.96.117.188]) by access2.mountain.net (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05042 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by tao.ca (FreeThought-3.1/TAO5) id RAA01124 for ise-discuss-outgoing; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:21:53 -0400 Received: from venus.goddard.edu (venus.goddard.edu [207.136.221.6]) by tao.ca (FreeThought-3.1/TAO5) with ESMTP id RAA01050; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:21:02 -0400 Received: from [207.136.221.37] - 207.136.221.37 by venus.goddard.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Thu, 6 May 1999 17:22:45 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:06:13 -0400 To: ban@tao.ca, gegan@egroups.com, ise-discuss@tao.ca From: Brian Tokar Subject: (ise-discuss) Fwd: BIO ACTION ALERT 99 Sender: owner-ise-discuss@tao.ca Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ise-discuss@tao.ca >> **PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY** >> >> MOBILIZE TO RESIST THE GENETIC-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX >> MAY 15-20, during the BIO 99 (Biotechnology Industry Organization) >> convention in Seattle >> (check out http://www.bio.org/meetings/future/bio99/bio9914.html) >> >> TUESDAY MAY 18- PROTEST the "LIFE SCIENCES" INDUSTRY >> NOON - @ 801 CONVENTION PLACE 8th & Pike >> at their annual International convention, BIO 99, taking place all week >>at the Seattle Trade and Convention Center.We will gather at noon in front >>of the Convention Center. We will leaflet, perform street theater, wave >>our signs, & provide education on what Genetic Engineering is & the >>dangers of it. We will march around & thru the Convention Center to >>FREEWAY PARK located on the 4 th floor of the Convention Center. We will >>gather to listen to amazing speakers who have revealed the TRUTH & DANGERS >>of GENETIC ENGINEERING. Please join us in the PICKET LINE DANCE as we >>delight to the sounds of supportive bands : JIM PAGE, The HANUMAN TRIO, >>The SHAMANIACS, The Bubbleman, Funky Drum Ensemble & more. Come to Seattle >>for the weekend before to prepare street theater and organize with >>direct action folks. >> > >> > PLEASE CONTACT : >> > >> > Community Action Network - (206) 632-1656 (E-mail:waal@seanet.com) >> > www.aa.net/~paik/biotech >> > BRING YOUR SKILLS, art, props, stilts, good food donations, >> mayhem, instruments, & your friends. Let us know when you are >> coming so we can figure out housing for you. We will have a fun, creative >> art space to make props,banners, & puppets. LET OUR VOICES BE HEARD! And, on the 2 days that follow: >> ** BIODEVASTATION 3 Conference ** May 19, 20 >> Plymouth Congretational Church ( 6th & University) >> 8:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. ( Panels/ workshops ) >> 7:30 p.m. - 9:30 p.m. ( Strategy Sessions ) >> > BIODEVASTATION 3 is the third in a worldwide series of > grassroots gatherings about genetic engineering > (following in the footsteps of St. Louis and New Delhi) > >. . . all-day workshops and evening strategy sessions addressing >food safety and food security, patenting of seeds and other life >forms, environmental issues, monopolization and industrialization >of food production, etc. > >. . .featuring such major critics of science and technology as: >* Brian Tokar (writer/critic for Z Magazine and the Ecologist, >author of Earth for Sale, and professor at Goddard College and >the Institute for Social Ecology), >* Dr. Michael Hansen (Consumer Policy Institute scientist, >expert on bovine growth hormone, mad cows, and most of the >insanity in our food system), >* University of Indiana Professor Martha Crouch (biologist/ >critic, and author of "How the Terminator Terminates..."), >* Oregon State University Professor Elaine Ingham (the soil >ecologist who first shared the problems with an engineered >microorganism that might have spelled the end of agriculture), >* Brewster Kneen (editor of The Ram's Horn, food system analyst, >and author of Farmageddon), >* Cathleen Kneen (co-editor of The Ram's Horn and organizer of >community food councils across Canada), >* Debra Harry (renowned critic of the Human Genome Diversity Project >and Coordinator of the Indigenous Peoples Coalition Against Biopiracy), >* Ronnie Cummins ( guardian of Global Days of Action and >organizer of the Campaign for Food Safety), >* Charles Margulis, head of Greenpeace USA's genetic engineering >campaign, the strategist in the fishberry suit, >* and many others, including RAFI researcher/campaigner >extraordinaire Edward Hammond, long-time campaigner for >techno-sanity and civil rights UW Professor Phil Bereano, techno- >eugenics maven Rich Hayes, activist/ecology professor Doreen >Stabinsky > > >. . . hosted by the Edmonds Institute and Washington Biotechnology Action >Council; co-sponsored by: Food and Farming Forum, Greenpeace U.S.A., >Centre for Interdisciplinary Studies (West Bengal,India), International >Center for Technology Assessment, Campaign for Food Safety, Diverse >Women for Diversity, Biotechnology Action Montreal, Council for >Responsible Genetics, Center for Ethics and Toxics, the Gateway Greens, >Institute for Social Ecology, Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, >Non-Violent Action Committee of Cascadia, Northeast Resistance Against >Genetic Engineering, the Global Economy Working Group of the Church >Council of Greater Seattle, Sustainable Communities, and others. > >There is NO charge to attend (and free lunch will be offered both days). > >To pre-register and ensure space at what is sure to be a crowded event, >contact the Edmonds Institute, beb@igc.org or 425-775-5383. N.B.: Space is filling up fast. If you want to attend Biodevastation 3, you need to preregister now. Institute for Social Ecology - http://ise.rootmedia.org/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 06:07:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA12775 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA12794 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 05:35:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from freedom.mtn.org (freedom.mtn.org [198.174.235.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA12498 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 05:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.174.167.135] (dial-123.mtn.org [198.174.167.123]) by freedom.mtn.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA09135; Fri, 7 May 1999 04:37:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 04:37:29 -0500 X-Real-To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 2 (High) To: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx, jgruv@wam.umd.edu, cash@scisoc.org, compost@cloudnet.com, wysex001@tc.umn.edu, hamilton@smm.org, laura.preus@dnr.state.mn.us, mark.zumwinkle@state.mn.us, philipp.muessig@moea.state.mn.us, paul.walvatne@dot.state.mn.us, KHonl@rainbowtreecare.com, scott.bradley@dot.state.mn.us, jean.mouelle@dnr.state.mn.us, sandpiper@edaphos.com, mmuller@iatp.org From: bbacon@mtn.org (Bruce Bacon) Subject: Re: composting conserves more C ? Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, info@soilfoodweb.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id FAA12519 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 636 Here are some past postings that bear on this topic, which I saved as an interesting topic, perhaps: is dead plant mulch more conducive to more fungal rather than microbial dominated soil populations? Sequestration in soil must mean micriobial/fungal metabolism (biomass, net primary productivity ?) which is precursor to soil health and availability for plant growth ?? what is role of physical chemistry of parent substrate? and biogeography? somebody needs to do a SOILS conference to address and & in preparation for an (sub-)urban/community ecosystem based, biodiversity indicator plant//animal///soil metabolism (GEIS ?) planning process? to manage C sequestration and mass balancing of local/regional//point source greenhouse gasses and/or airborne polluntants? Is the farm bill a planning process? Best Regards, Bruce ====================================================================== "Whatever our accomplishments, our sophistication, our artistic pretension, we owe our very existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil...and the fact that it rains" Anonymous, "The Cockle Bur" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 18:49:39 -0500 From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: composting conserves more C ? Dear Sanet Thank you Joel for this reference. However, I recall that the previous discusion was concerned with several effects, not just "C stabilization", which is the purpose of composting to begin with. There was also a question of the effects on soil biology and structure of raw MO (mulch) vs. application of compost. J. Gruver wrote (snip) >..." Comparing C mineralization that >takes place in soil and during composting, it can be concluded that >composting is the best way to obtain maximum C stabilization..." > >Here is the bibliographic info... > >Bernal, M.P., Sanchez-Monedero, M.A., Paredes, C. and A. Roig. 1998. >Carbon mineralization from organic wastes at different composting stages >during incubation with soil. Agriculture, Ecosystems and Environment >69:175-189. > >I have not read the whole article as of yet... > >Joel Gruver >Soil Quality Research >U of MD jgruv@wam.umd.edu > > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 10:55:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17012 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08437 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:08:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08392 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jal1.jal1.telmex.net.mx ([148.233.240.123]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 09:08:07 -0500 Message-ID: <199905070906550340.000A5382@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <000401be9830$bfbadfe0$3c7cfea9@tog-server> References: <000401be9830$bfbadfe0$3c7cfea9@tog-server> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 09:06:55 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Dan Glickman's speech Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA08393 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 637 On 6/05/99 at 10:21 PM Tuscarora Organic Growers Cooperative wrote: >Misha wrote, in response to Dan Glickman: > >>... his comment about biotechnology >>being the "twin" of information technology. ... That is an illustrative statement that clearly demonstrates a clear confusion between biological, evolutionary development (on the one hand) and manipulative, electro-mechanical (and proprietary) development on the other. (Anyone having trouble distinguishing the difference deserves my sympathy but not much of the time it would take on my part to elucidate further - maybe later). >Do I remember correctly that a Monsanto PR guy was quoted in the New York >Times Magazine (in that excellent potato cover-story), stating that >Monsanto's goal was to become the "Windows Operating System of Agriculture?" That too is a good illustration of the same mentality - it's like thinking you own the air that you breathe (but which if you try to "keep", gets old quite quickly). There's an important difference between improving and sharing a little corner of the world through your own effort and believing you HAVE a corner on it (and a lot more coming &/or going than anyone else) - even though there are more than a few around these days that think that's all there is that counts. As for Bill Gates, he simply ate the errand he'd been given by IBM - which is a company that to this day makes more money on software alone than Microsoft - even if Bill himself became the "richest" man in the world and OS2 just stayed warped (without the necessary developer support and therefore, client base - 10,000,000 weren't enough). What's more disturbing is that someone with that mentality could get to be Secretary of Agriculture (agricultural being a biological activity, at bottom), appointed by by someone who should know better - which just goes to show that someone up there (and it ain't the other Bill) has a well developed sense of humor and wants to keep us all on our toes. Which is both why this list exists, and is a bit infiltrated. DH Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 11:26:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17682 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 11:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA24556 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:36:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24494 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.182] (st-ppp08.hevanet.com [198.5.254.182]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA12497; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905071435.HAA12497@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 07:38:39 -0700 Subject: FW: Agricultural Library Publishes Guide to Animal Handling From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 638 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Agricultural Library Publishes Guide to Animal Handling Date: Fri, May 7, 1999, 7:03 AM STORY LEAD: National Agricultural Library Publishes Guide to Animal Handling, Transport ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 7, 1999 Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- A current guide to the "do's and don'ts" of transporting and handling farm animals is now available from USDA's National Agricultural Library. The new publication, "Information Resources for Livestock and Poultry Handling and Transport," 1990-1998, provides access to scientific, training and organizational resources for farmers, livestock and poultry producers, researchers, animal caretakers and other animal handlers. The publication is available from NAL's Animal Welfare Information Center. The publication contains bibliographic citations, audiovisuals, governmental and institutional guidelines, Internet resources, and expertise from individuals and organizations. A special section lists organizations concerned with livestock transport and handling issues. Information is provided on how to contact each organization either via electronic means or postal address and a brief summary of the resources and services each organization offers. Preceding the bibliography is the article, "Assessment of Stress During Handling and Transport," by Temple Grandin, Ph.D., from Colorado State University. Dr. Grandin is a recognized authority in the field of livestock handling. Copies of the publication are available free of charge while supplies last by contacting the Animal Welfare Information Center, National Agricultural Library, 10301 Baltimore Avenue, Beltsville, MD 20705-2351, telephone (301) 504-6212, fax (301) 504-7125, e- mail awic@nal.usda.gov. NAL is part of the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief research agency. NAL is the largest agricultural library in the world and one of four national libraries in the United States, along with the Library of Congress, the National Library of Medicine and the National Library of Education. ---------- Contact: Brian Norris, ARS National Agricultural Library, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-6778, fax (301) 504-5472, bnorris@nal.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 12:00:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19053 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05364 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:53:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05319 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:48:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "Wallace Institute (E-mail)" Subject: Wallace Institute Agriculture Policy Project Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:48:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 639 For release: May 7, 1999 Contact: Kate Clancy, Wallace Institute Agriculture Policy Project (301) 441-8777 RETAINING FARMS AND FARMLAND TOPS PROJECT'S INITIAL LISTS OF GOALS GREENBELT, MD (Friday, May 7, 1999) -- Local working groups participating in a nationwide agriculture policy project have listed their top agricultural concerns as the loss of farms and farmland, and the need for increased marketing opportunities. The Agriculture Policy Project of the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture is a grassroots effort to develop innovative, on-the-ground food and agriculture policies that will benefit American farmers and the constituencies they serve. The first phase of the project, now in progress, consists of local farm policy roundtables in 12 communities around the country (see end of release for list and local contacts). Their goal is to bring together farmers, local officials, business leaders, and others to identify critical food and agriculture-related challenges in their communities, and to develop and implement workable solutions. Eight of the 12 roundtables have completed their first round of workshops. "This is a great opportunity to influence national farm policies from the ground-up," said Project Director Kate Clancy. "It's never been done on this scale before, and we're very excited by the prospects, and by the progress we've made so far." The needs for policy change from all 12 local roundtables, several regional meetings, and a national meeting will be the starting point for the development of new local and national policy recommendations. These will be presented to the Administration and Congress. At the same time, the Agriculture Policy Project will fund local projects to implement the recommendations of the roundtables. The local roundtables represent many of the country's major cropping and production systems, as well as the other components of the food system: for example, corn and soybean growing in Indiana; beef production in Nebraska, Texas, and Colorado; and fruit and vegetable growing in California and southeastern Massachusetts. "To maintain the economic viability of farmed land in southeastern Massachusetts, we must support, develop, and implement policies based on local needs and decisions," said Rep. James P. McGovern (D-MA). "The Wallace Institute Agriculture Policy Project has provided the opportunity for local people to plan a course of action to solve their own problems." In addition to farmland preservation and marketing opportunities, other policy issues under discussion include: C Effects of agriculture on air quality C Reconnecting farming to communities C Agricultural diversification C New farmers C Inner city food access C Watershed impacts "Grassroots planning on farm issues and farmland conservation can send a powerful message to legislators at all levels," said Tim Warman, vice president for programs at American Farmland Trust, a non-profit dedicated to protecting farmland. "The Agriculture Policy Project has initiated the important process of mobilizing key individuals to envision the future of farming in their communities, to identify challenges to that future, and to start the search for solutions." LOCAL FARM POLICY ROUNDTABLES Here are the locations and contacts for the eight local farm policy roundtables which have completed their first round of workshops. COLORADO: C.J. Mucklow, Routt County Extension; (970) 879-0825; e-mail cjmucklow@yampa.com IDAHO: John Pitney, (208) 368-0019 INDIANA: Dave Swaim, (765) 245-2573; e-mail dswaim@tctc.com MASSACHUSETTS: Irene Winkler, RC&D, USDA-NRCS, (508) 295-1317 ext. 130; e-mail iwinkler@ma.nrcs.usda.gov MICHIGAN: Don Hamilton, (616) 228-7545 NEBRASKA: Terry Gompert, Knox County Extension, (402) 288-4224; e-mail tgompert1@unl.edu NORTH CAROLINA: Gary Gumz, Mountain Partners in Agriculture, (828) 649-9452; e-mail ggumz@madison.main.nc.us TEXAS: Lydia Villanueva, Promised Land Network, (806) 364-4445 The Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research and education organization established in 1983 to encourage and facilitate the adoption of low-cost, resource-conserving, and environmentally sound farming systems. The Wallace Institute Agriculture Policy Project is a five-year project, funded by the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, involving local, regional, and national participants in the development of long-term policies for sustainable food and agriculture systems. * * * To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 12:32:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19904 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09080 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 11:47:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (stat49.webserf.net [204.77.122.49] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA09063 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 11:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905071547.LAA09063@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.161] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AAC814DE020E; Fri, 07 May 1999 10:46:16 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 15:45:43 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Glickman's speech Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 640 Misha wrote: >Do I remember correctly that a Monsanto PR guy was quoted in the New York >Times Magazine (in that excellent potato cover-story), stating that >Monsanto's goal was to become the "Windows Operating System of Agriculture?" The frequent lock-ups, crashes, stutters, and "fatal errors" in the Windows o/s are annoying. In natural systems they are rather more serious, and we've already seen plenty of signs that GM-biotech will be at least as error plagued as Windows, along with numerous indications that Monsanto et all will be every bit as arrogant as Microsoft in insisting that problems aren't really problems. Does that mean Terminator Technology seeds will all be considered ... unix ?? I guess you'll eventually be able to tell the sustainable folks by their Red Hats .... :-b Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 13:52:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22219 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA26345 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:03:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA26332 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA44698 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 12:03:05 -0500 Message-ID: <37331CB2.CBDB95CD@missouri.edu> Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 12:02:42 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson Organization: University of Missouri X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Re: Organic Taking over UK market Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 641 Roberto wrote: > In short, the default (in the computer sense of being the general > rule) is the chemical mode, > and you have to go through all kinds of trouble (and extra costs) to > go into the organic mode. What it if was the other way around? If the > default mode was organic (no need to certify, label, etc.), and that > any farmer who had to use chemicals had to go through all kinds of > certification, training requirements, labelling requirements, etc. > > I would imagine that in such a case, the market itself would gradually > adjust towards the organic and the 80% organic share wouldn't look > like a pipedream. > Actually, I think that the moves by European supermarket chains to eliminate GMOs in the food on their shelves will lead to exactly what you are saying Roberto. I don't want to overemphasize this, but I am hearing a few reports from farmers who are taking back their Round-up Ready soybeans and planting other beans this year in order to ensure their access to international markets. (On the other hand my brother in Nebraska says 90% of the beans in his area are going to be Round-up Ready.) It remains to be seen if our system of terminals, transportation and ports can maintain two streams of bulk soybeans for export to the European Union. Mary -- Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. Network Coordinator Food Circles Networking Project University of Missouri Outreach and Extension Department of Rural Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 Tele: 573-882-7463 Fax: 573-882-1473 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 14:49:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23509 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA25234 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:54:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA25208 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990507175623.334.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 07 May 1999 10:56:23 PDT Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:56:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Beginning of end of GM foods in Britain... To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 642 Saneteers-- This rather long post provides an update on the landmark anti-GMO week that has occured in Europe. Surely the U.S. consumer is the next to wake up and demand, at a minimum, label information on GMO ingredients. kate > >>> INDEPENDENT (London) > >>> May 2, 1999 > >>> > >>> Genetic manipulation: consciousness-raising at work > in UK. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> By GEOFFREY LEAN > >>> > >>> It was an extraordinary scene, a fitting start to > the week that surely > >>> marks the beginning of the end for genetically > modified foods in Britain. > >>> At nine o'clock last Monday morning two of the most > powerful men in the > >>> global food industry turned up at a pressure group's > door. > >>> > >>> Richard Greenhalgh, chairman of Unilever UK, and > Michel Ogrizek, the > >>> international head of corporate affairs for the giant > multinational - the > >>> world's largest food manufacturing company - came to > Greenpeace's offices > >>> in Islington, north London, in what appears to have > been a last-ditch > >>> attempt to make peace. But next day the company had > to admit defeat, > >>> announcing that it would stop using GM ingredients in > its products in > >>> Britain. > >>> > >>> The announcement started a week-long stampede by > leading companies, all > >>> household names. The speed and suddenness of the > flight from > >>> "Frankenstein foods" has surprised everyone, > humiliated the Government and > >>> provided the most spectacular example to date of > consumer power. Its > >>> repercussions will reverberate far beyond this > country: it could prove a > >>> turning point in the battle over genetic modification > worldwide. > >>> > >>> Unilever insists that Monday's visit was just "part > of a general ongoing > >>> discussion in regard to issues on genetically > modified organisms". But > >>> Greenpeace recounts how it received a call from Mr > Greenhalgh's office > >>> late the previous Friday, requesting an urgent > meeting. It says that the > >>> company was "trying to resist going GM-free". > >>> > >>> "Their suggestion was that some sort of full debate > or discussion might > >>> be valuable," says Peter Melchett, Greenpeace's > executive director. "We > >>> said that things had moved beyond that point." > >>> > >>> Up to then Unilever had been one of the most > committed proponents of GM > >>> foods - and even in defeat it insisted that its > announcement did not > >>> "change our long-held belief in the potential of > modern technology, > >>> including the genetic modification of food > ingredients." It went on: > >>> "This technology offers huge future benefit to > customers, but the > >>> realisation of this depends on winning full consumer > trust and > >>> confidence." > >>> > >>> It's right, at least, about the last part - as it > knows only too well. > >>> For the giant company was forced into its reluctant > volte-face by an > >>> unprecedented onslaught from its own customers. > Bemused executives > >>> describe helplines swamped by worried and angry > consumers since early > >>> this year. Worse, sales of its GM soya product, > Beanfeast, have slumped > >>> precipitously. Some industry sources calculate they > have fallen by 80 per > >>> cent; Unilever privately says it is "nearer 50 per > cent". (The company > >>> has now promised to make it GM-free within two > months.) > >>> > >>> It is not suffering alone. Sainsbury will withdraw > its GM tomato puree - > >>> the first genetically modified product to be > introduced in Britain - from > >>> its shelves by June. Made from tomatoes modified to > rot more slowly, it > >>> used to outsell its GM-free rival by two to one: > now, says the company, > >>> "our customers do not want it". > >>> > >>> No wonder Unilever's surprise announcement opened > the floodgates. The > >>> next day Nestle, another of the world's biggest food > companies, announced > >>> that it was phasing out GM products as fast as > possible. The day after, > >>> Cadbury followed suit. Meanwhile Tesco, Britain's > largest supermarket > >>> chain, said it would remove GM ingredients from its > own- brand foods, > >>> joining Sainsbury, Safeway, Asda and Somerfield. And > the Co-op will > >>> tomorrow announce changes that will make its products > GM free as well. > >>> > >>> When these phase-outs are complete, no major > supermarket brands will > >>> continue to contain GM ingredients and - after last > week's Unilever, > >>> Nestle and Cadbury announcements - many other foods > will be free of them > >>> too. It's an extraordinary reversal from the rapid, > silent, expansion of > >>> GM foods - from nothing to 60 per cent of the > products on supermarket > >>> shelves in less than three years. And it has put > environmental activists > >>> into the unfamiliar position of extolling market > forces. > >>> > >>> Those same forces will spread the effects of last > week's events > >>> worldwide. > >>> > >>> For these enormously wealthy companies (Unilever's > turnover alone is more > >>> than #35bn) will now start scouring the world for > GM-free soya and maize, > >>> raising their prices and providing a powerful > incentive to farmers to > >>> plant them. This could tip the balance in the many > countries that have > >>> been facing a close-fought decision on whether to > introduce GM crops: > >>> some analysts expect that many farmers will now > abandon them even in the > >>> United States, their greatest stronghold. > >>> > >>> The speed of the reversal has taken everyone by > surprise - even the > >>> pressure groups which campaigned for many months > before the issue caught > >>> fire early this year. What made the difference, both > they and the > >>> industry say, was press coverage, including the > Independent on Sunday's > >>> campaign. > >>> > >>> And no one has been more surprised by the > Government, which is now left - > >>> together with Monsanto and other bioscience companies > - as just about the > >>> only supporter of GM foods. Last week's events are a > major blow to its > >>> credibility, and to the personal authority of the > Prime Minister who went > >>> out of his way, at the height of the controversy > earlier this year, to > >>> stress his confidence in them. > >>> > >>> This is the Government's greatest failure yet to > read the public mood. > >>> Right up until last week - and in some cases even now > - senior ministers > >>> were convinced that the GM foods controversy was, as > Mr Blair privately > >>> told Labour MPs, just "a flash in the pan". How > could an administration > >>> which is usually so successful at catching the tides > of public opinion, > >>> have got so out of step? > >>> > >>> The answer lies in Mr Blair's similarity to Tony > Benn. In the 1960s Mr > >>> Benn embodied the Wilson government's faith that the > "white-heat of > >>> technology" was the answer to Britain's economic > problems. Mr Blair and > >>> other modernisers, like Peter Mandelson, > enthusiastically adopted this Old > >>> Labour belief. They became convinced that the > country's future depended > >>> on knowledge-based industries, and equated > biotechnology with them. > >>> > >>> Thus GM foods became integrated into the Blairite > "project": to express > >>> concerns about them was to doubt New Labour. > Blinkered by this > >>> conviction, the Government failed to spot the many > early signs of > >>> impending public revolt . > >>> > >>> It has been a damaging failure, for the episode has > crystallised some of > >>> the strongest popular concerns about the Government - > that it is arrogant, > >>> overinfluenced by big business and oversubservient to > the United States. > >>> > >>> Ministers (with one or two honourable exceptions) > have haughtily > >>> dismissed concerns about the effects of the crops on > health and on the > >>> environment, parroting the reassurances of official > scientific committees > >>> who have a majority of members with links to the food > and biotechnology > >>> industries. And growing anti-Americanism and > hostility to multinational > >>> companies has been stoked by the US decision to mix > GM and ordinary soya > >>> (so that they could not be distinguished or > separated) before shipping > >>> them to Europe; by Monsanto's heavy-handedness; and > by the evangelical > >>> zeal with which the Clinton administration has been > pushing GM foods. > >>> > >>> But even within the White House there are signs of > concern, if not > >>> change. A few days before the Unilever announcement, > at the start of an > >>> official lunch in New York, my neighbour - one of the > Clinton > >>> administration's most senior environmental > policymakers - turned to me and > >>> opened the conversation; "Tell me. How do we get out > from under this GM > >>> mess?" > >>> > >>> =================== > >>> INDEPENDENT (London) May 2 > >>> > >>> Ministers told to study GM food cancer risks > >>> > >>> By MARIE WOOLF > >>> > >>> THE COUNTRY'S most senior doctor has told ministers > to set up a special > >>> panel to examine whether eating genetically modified > food could cause > >>> birth defects, cancer or damage to the human immune > system. > >>> > >>> In a confidential report to the Government, the > Chief Medical Officer and > >>> the Chief Scientific Adviser have recommended that > ministers set up a GM > >>> health monitoring unit, similar to the body of > experts which discovered a > >>> link between eating beef from BSE infected cows and > human CJD. > >>> > >>> They believe not enough research has been done to > determine whether > >>> eating GM food could cause serious health problems in > humans. > >>> > >>> The report, seen last month by the ministerial > committee on genetic > >>> modification, proposes "the creation of a new unit to > monitor the health > >>> effects of GMOs, similar to the unit monitoring CJD". > It should examine > >>> "potential health effects" including "foetal > abnormalities, new cancers, > >>> and effects on the human immune system". > >>> > >>> Professor Liam Donaldson, the Chief Medical Officer, > and Sir Robert May, > >>> the Government's Chief Scientific Adviser, concluded > that "our > >>> understanding [of the effect of GMOs on human health] > is still > >>> developing". While there is no conclusive evidence, > their findings will > >>> renew public concern that GM food could lead to > unknown health > >>> consequences. > >>> > >>> Scientists, including Dr Michael Antoniou of Guy's > Hospital in London, > >>> have warned that genetic engineering could lead to > the creation of new > >>> allergies, cancers and other illnesses in human > beings because of "the > >>> disruption of our natural genetic order". > >>> > >>> "The reasons why we can't be specific about the > health consequences of GM > >>> food is that we don't know enough," said Dr Antoniou. > "Each genetic > >>> engineering event holds its own dangers. You could > have acute toxicity or > >>> something that sneaks up over many years. Any of > these things are > >>> possible." > >>> > >>> > >>> INDEPENDENT (London) May 2 > >>> > >>> GM Foods - Countdown to a consumer victory > >>> > >>> By GEOFFREY LEAN > >>> > >>> 7 February > >>> > >>> The Independent on Sunday launches its campaign to > get a three-year > >>> freeze on developing genetically modified crops, and > for all products > >>> containing modified food to be clearly labelled. More > than 100 chefs and > >>> food writers back opposition to GM food; thousands of > readers back the > >>> campaign. > >>> > >>> 12 February > >>> > >>> English Nature warns it cannot recommend safety of > GM foods. > >>> > >>> 13 February > >>> > >>> Scientists stage Westminster news conference to > demand that the findings > >>> of Dr Arpad Pusztai are reinstated after an > international panel of 20 > >>> experts endorse his work. He claimed laboratory rats > fed with GM potatoes > >>> had suffered damage to their immune systems and vital > organs. Blair > >>> rejects demand for moratorium on GM food. Labour's > former chief > >>> spokesman, David Hill, and Tony Blair's US pollster > and strategist, Stan > >>> Greenberg, are revealed as advisers to GM food giant > Monsanto. > >>> > >>> 15 February > >>> > >>> Tony Blair gives personal assurance that GM is safe > to eat. Lord > >>> Sainsbury, science minister, revealed as owning a key > GM gene that is used > >>> to create most of the GM foods currently on the > market, such as soya. > >>> > >>> 17 February > >>> > >>> Royal Society scientists to re-issue report on > dangers of GM foods after > >>> ministers ignored it for five months. > >>> > >>> 20 February > >>> > >>> Tony Blair warns that banning GM food would > jeopardise Britain's bio-tech > >>> industries. Pressure mounts on Lord Sainsbury. > >>> > >>> 21 February > >>> > >>> IoS/NOP poll shows 59 per cent unhappy with way > Government has handled > >>> issue; 68 per cent worried about eating GM food. > >>> > >>> 25 February > >>> > >>> Prime Minister tells Commons there will be no > inquiry into Government's > >>> handling of GM foods. Councils to ban GM food from > schools, town halls and > >>> old people's homes. > >>> > >>> 28 February > >>> > >>> Advertising Standards Authority criticises Monsanto > for its misleading > >>> campaign. > >>> > >>> 3 March > >>> > >>> Dr Jean Emberlin, director of National Pollen > Research Unit at University > >>> College, Worcester, says dangers of contamination by > GM pollen may have > >>> been seriously underestimated. > >>> > >>> 11 March > >>> > >>> English Nature scientists warn science and > technology select committee > >>> that GM crops pose a severe threat to wildlife and > ecosystems. > >>> > >>> 15 March > >>> > >>> Marks & Spencer to remove all GM ingredients. > Novartis, world's third > >>> largest drug company, pans "hysteria" over GM. Lord > Sainsbury says GM food > >>> poses a risk, but benefits outweigh possible dangers. > Ministers meanwhile > >>> confident that they can persuade firms to back > voluntary three-year freeze > >>> on GM crops. > >>> > >>> 18 March > >>> > >>> Supermarkets Waitrose and the Co-op promise to make > their own brands > >>> GM-free. > >>> > >>> 19 March > >>> > >>> New laws on labelling of foods containing GM > products come into force. > >>> Shops and restaurants failing to do so face fines of > up to #5,000. > >>> > >>> 29-30 March > >>> > >>> Protests against GM foods held across Britain, > including demonstrations > >>> at supermarkets and the ripping-up of oil seed rape > plants at farms. Two > >>> protesters cleared of criminal damage to #44,000 > worth of crops at a Devon > >>> farm; Crown Prosecution Service says public opinion > is one reason for not > >>> pursuing the case. > >>> > >>> 21 April > >>> > >>> Britain's finest restaurants, including the Savoy > and the River Cafe, > >>> announce that they will ban all GM products. > >>> > >>> 27 April > >>> > >>> Tesco promises to remove GM foods from its shelves, > wherever possible. > >>> Unilever announces a ban on its products. > >>> > >>> 29 April > >>> > >>> Further rules governing the labelling of GM foods so > that GM-free > >>> products can be clearly identified are being > considered by the Government. > >>> Cadbury Schweppes announces that it is removing all > GM ingredients from > >>> its chocolate. > >>> ========================== > >>> > >>> > >> > >__________________________________________ > >Ms. Renske van Staveren, Coordinator > >International Forum on Food & Agriculture (IFA) > >c/o Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) > >2105 First Avenue South > >Minneapolis, MN, USA 55404-2505 > >ph: 612-870-3423 fax: 612-870-4846 > >rvanstaveren@iatp.org> > >http://www.iffah.org > >__________________________________________ > >"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth > becomes a > >revolutionary act." George Orwell > > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 16:06:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25167 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14244 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:15:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA14195 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990507191443.27767.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 07 May 1999 12:14:43 PDT Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 12:14:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Major Business News -- WSJ Interactive Edition (http://interactive.wsj.com/arti To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 643 Hello Saneteers, This is forwarded from the Wall Street Journal. Note the brief reference to handling of GMO grain. kate May 7, > Farmland, Cenex Conduct > Talks on Possible Merger > By SCOTT KILMAN > Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET > JOURNAL > > > Farmland Industries Inc. and > Cenex Harvest States Cooperatives, the nation's two > biggest farmer-owned cooperatives, are in talks to merge > into one organization that would handle the business of > half of America's farmers. > > The combined cooperatives would > generate annual revenue of roughly $20 billion, > processing everything from wheat to pigs, and be owned by > roughly 900,000 farmers located between the Rocky > Mountains and the Appalachian Mountains. > > The talks, which the cooperatives > disclosed yesterday, are subject to approval by federal > regulators and their farmer-owners. No cash would > exchange hands and the combination would be handled as a > merger of equals. Shares in a new organization would be > issued to farmers on a 1-for-1 basis for their existing > shares, the cooperatives said. Farmland, of Kansas City, > Mo., and Cenex Harvest States, of St. Paul, Minn., each > have a book value of roughly $3 billion. > > Farmland, Cenex in Talks to Merge > Grain Operations (March 10) > > The talks are the latest move in > a merger wave sweeping through the U.S. agricultural > sector, which is being battered weak exports and low > commodity prices. Everything from seed companies and > grain handlers to fertilizer makers are consolidating for > a number of reasons. > > Regulatory Concerns > > A political backlash is slowing > the regulatory clearance of several deals. Some > farm-state legislators are worried, for example, about > how Cargill Inc.'s proposed acquisition of the > grain-handling operations of longtime rival Continental > Grain Co. would reduce the number of buyers for crops > across the Midwest. > > A combination between Farmland > and Cenex Harvest States probably wouldn't generate the > same level of concern by regulators, because they are > owned by the farmers who would be most affected. > > Farmland and Cenex Harvest States > began talking about combining their grain-handling > operations in March. The discussions grew from there. > > Harry Cleberg, Farmland's chief > executive, said the cooperatives could save tens of > millions of dollars annually on transportation by > coordinating their use of trucks, rail cars and barges. > The cooperatives might save money by eliminating some > duplicate grain-handling operations. > > The combined organization would > be better able to coordinate the growing and processing > of genetically engineered crops, a hot area in > agriculture. Mr. Cleberg said he is interested in forming > an alliance between the combined cooperatives and a crop > biotechnology company such as DuPont Co. or Novartis AG > of Switzerland. > > Directors of the cooperatives > said they hope to complete a merger between Farmland and > Cenex Harvest States by June 1, 2000. Mr. Cleberg and > Noel Estenson, the chief executive of Cenex Harvest > States, would serve as co-CEOs of the combined > cooperative for a while. However, a single CEO would > eventually be picked. > > Both Messrs. Cleberg and Estenson > are 60 years old. If the deal goes through, the > combined cooperatives will hire companies to help them > decide where in the Midwest to locate their joint > headquarters as well as how to pick a new name. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 16:22:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25522 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA23781 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:30:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23722 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp2.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.102]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA08407 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:27:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <017401be98bf$ee385fc0$794b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: References: <19990507175623.334.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Beginning of end of GM foods in Britain... Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:29:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 644 Thanks Kate for posting this... I thought perhaps, at the risk of pissing off the U of WI extension offices...here's what they are telling us farmers when we ask about planting GE crops...Has gotta make you wonder who is funding who these days... Fwd. without permission from local farming list... First off, Roundup ready corn is approved for any use in the United States. The problem comes in when you sell that corn and it winds up mixed in an export shipment to Europe, Japan or Canada. None of these countries have approved this Genetically Modified Organism (GMO) to date. There are very quick and very sensitive tests available to detect BT genes in corn now and Roundup Ready versions are probably not far behind. So, you need to check with your elevator for their policy on Roundup Ready corn rather than risk causing the refusal of an entire shipment. There is another complicating factor, however. The Roundup Ready gene is contained in the plant's pollen and can drift over to nearby non Roundup Ready fields where it can show up in the grain from that field. Therefore, you need to maintain adequate separation between any Roundup Ready fields and cash grain fields destined for sale to exporters. This separation distance is 660 feet for certified corn hybrid seed production and should probably be at least 250 to 300 feet in your situation. I would base the separation distance on predominant wind direction and other factors Again, this is not an issue if you are going to feed the corn. If you are going to grow Roundup Ready corn and will be selling that corn or non Roundup Ready corn grown in the vicinity: 1. Check with your elevator to determine their policy. 2. If this is an issue with your elevator, plan on keeping the Roundup Ready and surrounding corn separate or feed it. 3. Finally, it is entirely possible that these countries will approve this GMO prior to harvest. Be sure to check back with your elevator prior to harvesting in the fall to see if it is still an issue. The unfortunate truth of the matter is that farmers listen to extension offices. Why this is, I do not know. It will not be the ag agents sitting at the farm with no place to dump GE corn this fall...ABSOLUTELY NOW is THE time to spread this information to your local farmers...its planting time...later may be too late. Disgusted in Dairy Land, Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 16:33:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25716 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 16:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA04761 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:46:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA04699 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07247 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA07362; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:46:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199905071946.OAA07362@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 14:46:19 -0500 Subject: ERS/USDA report: food consumption CC: fgoodman@mwt.net, rlwills@execpc.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 645 Howdy, all-- This just in (4/26), and thought it might interest some of you. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Food Consumption, Prices, and Expenditures, 1970-97. By Judith Jones Putnam and Jane E. Allshouse, Food and Rural Economics Division, Economic Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture. Statistical Bulletin No. 965. http://www.econ.ag.gov/epubs/pdf/sb965/ Abstract This report presents historical data on food consumption, prices, expenditures, and U.S. income and population. In 1997, each American consumed, on average, 81 pounds more of commercially grown vegetables than in 1970; 65 pounds more of grain products; 57 pounds more of fruit; 32 pounds more of caloric sweeteners; 13 pounds more of total red meat, poultry, and fish (boneless, trimmed equivalent); 17 pounds more of cheese; 13 pounds more of added fats and oils; 3 gallons more of beer; 70 fewer eggs; 10 gallons less of coffee; and 7 gallons less of milk. Retail food prices, as measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI), increased 2.6 percent in 1997. Food price inflation in 1997 was higher than the overall increase in the CPI for all goods and services (2.3 percent) for the third consecutive year. Americans spent $715 billion for food in 1997 and another $95 billion for alcoholic beverages. Away-from-home meals and snacks captured 45 percent of the U.S. food dollar in 1997, up from 39 percent in 1980 and 34 percent in 1970. The percentage of disposable personal income spent on food declined from 13.8 percent in 1970 to 10.7 percent in 1997. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 18:58:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28433 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA12817 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:20:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA12680 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:20:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id RAA06085; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:19:14 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma005769; Fri, 7 May 99 17:18:49 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:18:49 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD0F@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Julie'" , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Beginning of end of GM foods in Britain... Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:18:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 646 Julie, You quoted some extension personnel from a local farming list: > "First off, Roundup ready corn is approved for any use in the United > States. The problem comes in when you sell that corn and it winds up > mixed in an export shipment to Europe, Japan or Canada... > So, you need to check with your elevator for their policy... > you need to maintain adequate separation between any Roundup Ready > fields and cash grain fields destined for sale to exporters..." I snipped out lots of similar common sense material > The unfortunate truth of the matter is that farmers listen > to extension offices. Why this is, I do not know. > It will not be the ag agents sitting at the farm with no > place to dump GE corn this fall...ABSOLUTELY NOW is THE... I'm kind of mystified by your reaction. Mainly they were urging farmers to be careful and avoid contamination. What exactly did you disagree with in that posting? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 7 22:44:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01085 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA00080 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:03:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (stat49.webserf.net [204.77.122.49] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA00064 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905080203.WAA00064@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.133] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AB371240460; Fri, 07 May 1999 21:02:31 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 02:02:04 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Organic inspectors Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 647 On 07 May 99 10:27:46, Roberto Verzola wrote: > >For instance, think of the number of organic inspectors it would > >require simply to inspect the acreage that would provide that supply >Misha's comment appears to show clearly how the system has loaded the >contest in favor of chemicals, since organics have to undergo all >kinds of certifications, documentation, etc. In short, the default (in As one who earns a reasonable percentage of my income from doing organic inspections, I'm hoping eventually for something of a hybrid system. One of my key approaches to organic inspection is an evaluation of the whole farm system and its various elements. What I want to see is that farm includes enough bio-diversity, and the applicant has in place a good enough management system, to greatly reduce the need for chemical responses to the usual production challenges. For example, if the applicant has limited equipment for weed control --- along with a limited understanding of weed life cycles and resulting timing for effective control --- the situation is ready-made for falling back to the spray rig, maybe even as soon as my truck heads down the road. In those circumstances it is extremely difficult to recommend in favour of certification without some kind of close supervision. I will consider that we have succeeded remarkably well with sustainable agriculture if at the end of my career in another 20-25 years I am still doing the same general sort of inspection --- on farms that use chemicals. In other words, if in order to obtain a *licence* allowing chemical fertilisers and pesticides to be applied on a given farm, the grower would have to demonstrate that (s)he has in place the very bio-diversity and management systems that will greatly reduce the need for those chemicals in the first place. If we get to the point where a on a "conventional" farm the chemical response is a third- or fourth-tier defence we will have come a very long way. I'll leave it to others to debate whether there is sufficient justification for attempting to eliminate chemicals entirely. The key thing for which we should be inspecting --- whether chemicals are used or not --- is healthy and vital whole farm systems. Unfortunately that's not even happening in the course of most *organic* inspections right now, but that is another topic. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 8 00:08:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02049 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 00:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA21518 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 23:26:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21416 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 23:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp23.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.123]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA12018 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 22:23:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002701be9902$77d848c0$7b4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD0F@vela.phibred.com> Subject: Re: Beginning of end of GM foods in Britain... Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:25:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 648 Dale wrote: > I'm kind of mystified by your reaction. Mainly they were urging farmers to > be careful and avoid contamination. What exactly did you disagree with in > that posting? Hi Dale, Gosh, you are the 2nd mystified person I've heard from today on this post, so perhaps some elaboration is in order. Yes, the ag agent is suggesting separation of GE corn from non-GE corn. First, this is the LEAST of additional costs for the farmer in this scenario, and should be considered in choosing seed for the season. Maybe possible for some farmers - separate storage facilities, but for smaller farms, probably unlikely. The 660 ft. "buffer" is something I'd sure be hard-pressed to see in my area of Wisconsin. Corn, etc. is planted right into the ditches here...often creating an actual road hazard! Every inch of taxed property is used for production. And he even suggests that 250-300 ft. is really sufficient based on wind direction "and other factors" - give me a break, pretty vague, subjective stuff there. My neighbors plant corn with in 60 feet of my land & they aren't going to quit (lowering their bottom line) because they're worried about contaminating MY crop! Sorry, but that's the way it is. That's why our farm is listed as a plaintiff in the Greenpeace suit. The insinuation made by this agent (saying that Europe, etc. have NOT YET approved GMOs) is misleading...as if its just a matter of time, rather than a matter of public outrage & pressure against it, which is really the case. In fact Nestle & Unilever (a couple of the biggest food producers in the world) have just announced they will NOT be using GE components in their foodstuffs - and Cadbury has followed (Hooray!!) see: http://ens.lycos.com/ens/apr99/1999L-04-28-03.html Saying its acceptable, if you're feeding it out, is further reason for concern IMO. Typical big biz, big ag jive...if you're giving it to a cow it doesn't matter. Regarding milk & meat, as if the body of a cow somehow negates the effect or "cleanses" the contamination of GE feed she ingests..that it will not be long before milk (and meat tissue) from a GE-fed cow will also be detectable through testing. And the most irritating part to me is the advice to keep abreast of developments at your local elevator...lets say the local elevator is ok with GE now, but in the fall, the policy has changed? What new bans will be in place at harvest time? Why risk it? And ultimately, who is risking what here? It's not the ag agent...he just says, "oops, sorry", its not the elevator, they'll refuse the grain...its the farmer, as always, left holding the bag (of grain) Are grain elevators going to create separate handling as well, strict cleaning of bins, etc? Sounds like organic standards to me. Nope, they will simply not accept it...too costly. Who pays the bill when bins of grain are contaminated by the non-GE farmer who's corn was crossed & he assures the elevator its "clean", but contaminates tons of export-bound corn...yup, that farmer will be paying too. Just as a dairy farmer who contaminates a truckload of milk with antibiotics pays for the entire load (and carries milk-contamination coverage under his farm insurance policy) some farmers are going to get hit hard before this is over...and it will probably be the ones who aren't even using the GE seed! I suggest to you that insurance companies will be looking long & hard at this issue before long. So this is why I'm disturbed. It does not matter one little bit if you are "on top of the situation", informed. Once that corn is in the ground...its done. If you don't have animals to feed it to, you're stuck. If you're a grain farmer, you have taken a far bigger risk than is necessary. The writing is on the wall, and the ag agents should be presenting both sides of the issue, rather than doing everything they can to keep this technology alive & well in this country, the last stronghold of biotech. So my biggest complaint is the lack of a rounded picture for the farmer, so that he can make an intelligent decision. Its a subversive advertisement for Monsanto, their seed, their chemicals and the destruction of the environment that they peddle. The ag agent has a responsibility to suggest the best farming practices known to him/her. To digress to suggesting ways in which to possibly minimize financial (and environmental) disaster is unacceptable. Hope this helps you understand my concern... Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 8 00:13:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02106 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 00:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA27947 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 7 May 1999 23:38:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA27897 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 23:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.140] (br-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.140]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA29437 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905080338.UAA29437@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 20:41:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Beginning of end of GM foods in Britain... From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 649 For what it's worth, a friend who has been a corn breeder for many years says that corn pollen doesn't really travel as far as most people think. He says he plants adjoining blocks of corn and almost all the cross-pollination is in the first two rows - beyond that it drops off to nothing within a few feet. I can't verify this, but this man has been breeding corn for about 50 years. I do know that he gave me seed of a new variety of his that had been grown next to a block of sweet corn and when I grew it out, I found one ear with about a dozen sweet corn kernals (I didn't have any sweet corn planted and there was none in the area for at least 2 miles). Pretty good rate as I had about 200 ears from the patch. -Lon Rombough ---------- >From: "Julie" >To: >Subject: Re: Beginning of end of GM foods in Britain... >Date: Fri, May 7, 1999, 8:25 PM > > >Dale wrote: > >> I'm kind of mystified by your reaction. Mainly they were urging farmers >to >> be careful and avoid contamination. What exactly did you disagree with in >> that posting? > >Hi Dale, > >Gosh, you are the 2nd mystified person I've heard from today on this post, >so perhaps some elaboration is in order. > >Yes, the ag agent is suggesting separation of GE corn from non-GE corn. >First, this is the LEAST of additional costs for the farmer in this >scenario, and should be considered in choosing seed for the season. Maybe >possible for some farmers - separate storage facilities, but for smaller >farms, probably unlikely. The 660 ft. "buffer" is something I'd sure be >hard-pressed to see in my area of Wisconsin. Corn, etc. is planted right >into the ditches here...often creating an actual road hazard! Every inch of >taxed property is used for production. And he even suggests that 250-300 ft. >is really sufficient based on wind direction "and other factors" - give me a >break, pretty vague, subjective stuff there. My neighbors plant corn with in >60 feet of my land & they aren't going to quit (lowering their bottom line) >because they're worried about contaminating MY crop! Sorry, but that's the >way it is. That's why our farm is listed as a plaintiff in the Greenpeace >suit. > >The insinuation made by this agent (saying that Europe, etc. have NOT YET >approved GMOs) is misleading...as if its just a matter of time, rather than >a matter of public outrage & pressure against it, which is really the case. >In fact Nestle & Unilever (a couple of the biggest food producers in the >world) have just announced they will NOT be using GE components in their >foodstuffs - and Cadbury has followed (Hooray!!) see: >http://ens.lycos.com/ens/apr99/1999L-04-28-03.html > >Saying its acceptable, if you're feeding it out, is further reason for >concern IMO. Typical big biz, big ag jive...if you're giving it to a cow it >doesn't matter. Regarding milk & meat, as if the body of a cow somehow >negates the effect or "cleanses" the contamination of GE feed she >ingests..that it will not be long before milk (and meat tissue) from a >GE-fed cow will also be detectable through testing. > >And the most irritating part to me is the advice to keep abreast of >developments at your local elevator...lets say the local elevator is ok with >GE now, but in the fall, the policy has changed? What new bans will be in >place at harvest time? Why risk it? And ultimately, who is risking what >here? It's not the ag agent...he just says, "oops, sorry", its not the >elevator, they'll refuse the grain...its the farmer, as always, left holding >the bag (of grain) Are grain elevators going to create separate handling as >well, strict cleaning of bins, etc? Sounds like organic standards to me. >Nope, they will simply not accept it...too costly. > >Who pays the bill when bins of grain are contaminated by the non-GE farmer >who's corn was crossed & he assures the elevator its "clean", but >contaminates tons of export-bound corn...yup, that farmer will be paying >too. Just as a dairy farmer who contaminates a truckload of milk with >antibiotics pays for the entire load (and carries milk-contamination >coverage under his farm insurance policy) some farmers are going to get hit >hard before this is over...and it will probably be the ones who aren't even >using the GE seed! I suggest to you that insurance companies will be looking >long & hard at this issue before long. > >So this is why I'm disturbed. It does not matter one little bit if you are >"on top of the situation", informed. Once that corn is in the ground...its >done. If you don't have animals to feed it to, you're stuck. If you're a >grain farmer, you have taken a far bigger risk than is necessary. The >writing is on the wall, and the ag agents should be presenting both sides of >the issue, rather than doing everything they can to keep this technology >alive & well in this country, the last stronghold of biotech. > >So my biggest complaint is the lack of a rounded picture for the farmer, so >that he can make an intelligent decision. Its a subversive advertisement for >Monsanto, their seed, their chemicals and the destruction of the environment >that they peddle. The ag agent has a responsibility to suggest the best >farming practices known to him/her. To digress to suggesting ways in which >to possibly minimize financial (and environmental) disaster is unacceptable. > >Hope this helps you understand my concern... > >Julie > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 8 07:57:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA05433 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA24697 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:25:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA24692 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 07:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA07798 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 06:24:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-77.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.77) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007789; Sat May 8 06:24:20 1999 Message-ID: <018f01be9945$06987340$7fff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: UK, GMO etc. Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 07:22:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 650 >Roberto wrote: >I do hope that non-GMOs become the clear default in the >socio-political system, but it will happen only with strong public >pressure, which has emerged in the UK but not yet, it seems, in the >US. > >Roberto Verzola > I have been reading the GMO/European thread with interest for a while. I have wondered: Did/do the Europeans have a somewhat easier time showing Monsanto etc. the door because they are a foreign company, not one of the good old Euopean boys you might say. The American public has it a bit more difficult because Monsanto is one of the good old US business boys. And getting GMO labeled will meet alot of resistance from the powers that be. Also wondering it appears that Europe is going to be GMO free, does that not mean that Monsanto etc. will fight even harder to get Americans to eat it? Of course if the farmers and grain elevators find separation more difficult , some for Europe, different for US, they might just give up and go back to regular seeds. That actually is another question are these GMO seeds really easier to grow? Thank-you saneters for your info. Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 8 10:56:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA06658 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06363 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:22:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06347 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 8 May 1999 09:21:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199905080920460420.04D4DC4D@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <018f01be9945$06987340$7fff6ed1@dan> References: <018f01be9945$06987340$7fff6ed1@dan> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 09:20:46 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dan Hook" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: UK, GMO etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA06352 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 651 What the default is depends on who controls the (Operating) System. "Strong public pressure" must achieve the end of reverting the vested interests that have subverted (sold out) the public good on behalf of their own particular benefit. When this happens, those controlling the system have only to ride out the storm. "Strong public pressure" can be stone walled, and minimized. They want a piece of the action and control is the issue - and they don't have to control the entire market in order to prosper and remain strong. They can do so even in the face of controversy, even when clearly wrong. What is needed is a situation where something like DDT just can't be sold (of course it still is, but not in the U.S. - although it can still manufactured there), or like cigarettes, which can't advertise on TV. (They can in Mexico, but only with a "can cause cancer" health disclaimer which does not impede enough sales from occurring to fund heavy use of TV ads. During the course of the past year, Pall Mall mounted a heavy TV sales campaign in Mexico - it hadn't been marketed here before). What is needed for things to get to this point for GMO's? A lot more than has happened or is likely to happen soon. On the other hand, the chances are excellent for providing for alternative labeling systems - for allowing for labels that proclaim that the products inside are free from GMO's (or something else), and MAYBE products containing GMO's can be legally required to proclaim the presence of GMO's on their labels - but it getting this involves a tooth and nail fight against vested interests with deep pockets, who everything to gain and nothing to lose (except their souls and the future of the grandchildren) by preventing that, using any means available. It will take a lot of organizing and diffusion of information and this will all have to be paid for. It will be, though those funds would be better spent on research for alternative technologies that are more environmentally and humanity friendly - and on product development and distribution of products that while less easy to exploit (control), contribute more to the common good and are truer to their biological origins. DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 8/05/99 at 7:22 AM Dan Hook wrote: >>Roberto wrote: >>I do hope that non-GMOs become the clear default in the >>socio-political system, but it will happen only with strong public >>pressure, which has emerged in the UK but not yet, it seems, in the >>US. >> >>Roberto Verzola >> >I have been reading the GMO/European thread with interest for a while. I >have wondered: Did/do the Europeans have a somewhat easier time showing >Monsanto etc. the door because they are a foreign company, not one of the >good old Euopean boys you might say. The American public has it a bit more >difficult because Monsanto is one of the good old US business boys. And >getting GMO labeled will meet alot of resistance from the powers that be. >Also wondering it appears that Europe is going to be GMO free, does that not >mean that Monsanto etc. will fight even harder to get Americans to eat it? >Of course if the farmers and grain elevators find separation more difficult >, some for Europe, different for US, they might just give up and go back to >regular seeds. That actually is another question are these GMO seeds really >easier to grow? Thank-you saneters for your info. Beth > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 8 11:29:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06980 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25477 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:00:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25457 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 8 May 1999 09:59:29 -0500 Message-ID: <199905080958300010.04F767B9@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <199905080338.UAA29437@hevanet.com> References: <199905080338.UAA29437@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 09:58:30 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Lon J. Rombough" , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Beginning of end of GM foods in Britain... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA25459 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 652 Hi, On 7/05/99 at 8:41 PM Lon J. Rombough wrote: > ... a corn breeder says that corn pollen doesn't really travel as far as most > people think. ...almost all the cross-pollination is in the first two rows - > beyond that it drops off to nothing within a few feet. The problem is that while this would seem to make the full effects of cross-pollenization on the environment take longer to be full observable, no one knows what those results will be - and the over-riding public interest lies (I firmly believe) in maintaining the biological, evolutionary origins of the biosphere, at LEAST until the full results are in. To the degree that gene splicing is a valid technology, it's use should be limited to correcting pathologies (i.e. providing the gene for making prothrombin that hemophiliacs are missing. But just for hemophiliacs - not everyone, since only hemophiliacs need it). In other words, the genetics of day to day reproduction, whether for business or for pleasure (i.e. personal use), should continue to be sexual except where an over-riding interest may require a mechanical / surgical / mircrosurgical, (and patentable) intervention. While that is only reasonable - the job is dealing with the vested interests, with legislating this moral and ecological issue - as stated earlier today elsewhere by myself and others. (That about wraps up my point of view on this issue). Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 8 11:44:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07143 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27980 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:10:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27944 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA17030 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:12:40 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:07:10 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.133] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0a61253c ; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:06:38 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990508100756.008008b0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 10:07:56 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mike Miller Subject: Re: UK, GMO etc. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 653 >I have been reading the GMO/European thread with interest for a while. I >have wondered: Did/do the Europeans have a somewhat easier time showing >Monsanto etc. the door because they are a foreign company, not one of the >good old Euopean boys you might say. If you think back to the earlier GMO posts on this listerv you will recall the US origin multinationals like Monsanto and Dupont are balanced by at least an equivalent number of European multinationals like Novartis and Zenaca. US multinationals might be more pushy or obnoxious in trying to shove Frankenfoods down peoples throats. This is probably because the US market has been such a pushover no doubt aided by having their former staff members in the FDA reviewing their old private sector projects, like happened with rBGH. >Also wondering it appears that Europe is going to be GMO free, does that not >mean that Monsanto etc. will fight even harder to get Americans to eat it? Unfortunately, Monsanto et al have had there way in the US and we are eating GMO's now without any freedom to choose or even our informed consent. We have not had a Mad Cow outbreak here and until we do, I don't see any need to put more marketing effort in the US market; they already have a unregulated market with complete acceptance of their products. Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 8 21:17:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13288 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 21:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA11470 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 8 May 1999 20:46:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA11251 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 20:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d27-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.27]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA22030 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:46:01 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Sustainable Agriculture Network" Subject: Semantics, politics and conventional-organic Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 10:58:12 +1000 Message-ID: <000401be99b7$035c5440$1b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37331CB2.CBDB95CD@missouri.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 654 Reading the exchanges regarding the perception of organic, non-organic and what is achievable, I thought I would add some thoughts from several perspectives. Organic has only a tiny niche in Australia, and I see little prospect of this changing. From my own experience there is sometimes less muck and magic than there is bull**** and backbiting in our organic movement, with the fervent purists obsessed with the idea of denying producers the right to produce both conventional and organic products. Which stands in the way, say, of having major exporters of wine have both organic and conventional products. Obviously the prospect of them dropping their conventional lines is zero. Since Chernobyl, the marketers of Australian farm produce abroad have given emphasised that our (conventional) agricultural products are 'clean and green'. Relative to poisoned soil circumstances in Europe and north America, this is probably fair enough. But the meaning of it all seems to shift through the minds of the users into a different kind of argument, and it links up with the semantically wonderful propositions you hear along the track, like "all farmers are greenies, and bulldozer drivers are the biggest greenies of them all" which alter or rob meaning entirely. When Australian beef turns up in another country with some poison in it, there is a sucking of breath and a "gosh, what will this do to our clean, green image", same when strange viruses from horses start killing people. There is important progress along the lines Bart bluestem hails, not least as fewer fools are available to stand at the end of a cotton row to tell the aeroplane where to dump the next load of DDT, and the beef farmers next door to the cotton farmers get militant when their carcasses and pastures are condemned. We have so little water that the Murray Darling system, half the size of the Mississippi system, and also flowing out of this continent at the bottom middle, actually was closed for months by a sand bar a year or so ago. Water limits, of course creates great tensions between the advocates for wetland marshes and the (sometimes poor marginal) irrigation farmers. And our soils are ancient and extremely thin (you get excited when you can measure centimeters rather than millimetres), so there is a great awareness on the part of most farmers of the importance of reducing tillage. However, as you will appreciate, the chemical companies are also evangelists in minimum tillage. To the point: The net semantic-political circumstance we have is that most farmers have travelled a long way towards 'sustainability' in their minds in recent years and they consider that they are very green already. I think Bart is absolutely right in praising signs of incremental wisdom, seeking incentive for further shift towards more sustainable practices. Anthony Giddens, Director of the London School of Economics, in the BBC's 1999 Reith Lectures, just concluded, and a very interesting read [or better still, listen to the audio, an hour at a time], on 'Runaway World' http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/events/reith_99/week5/week5.htm says, in Lecture 2, on 'Risk' that: "Yet the precautionary principle isn't always helpful or even applicable as a means of coping with problems of risk and responsibility. The precept of 'staying close to nature', or of limiting innovation rather than embracing it, can't always apply. The reason is that the balance of benefits and dangers from scientific and technological advance, and other forms of social change too, is imponderable. We may need quite often to be bold rather than cautious in supporting scientific innovation or other forms of change. After all, one root of the term risk in the original Portuguese means 'to dare'. Take as an example the controversy over genetically modified foods. Genetically modified crops are already growing on 35 million hectares of land across the world - an area 12 times the size of Britain. Most are being grown in North America and China. Crops include soya, maize, cotton and potatoes. "No more obvious situation could be found where nature is no longer nature. The risks involve a number of unknowns - or, if I can put it this way, known unknowns, because the world has a pronounced tendency to surprise us. There may be other consequences that no one has yet anticipated. One type of risk, is that the crops may carry medium or long-term healthy hazards. After all, a good deal of gene technology, is essentially new, different from older methods of cross-breeding. "Another possibility is that genes incorporated into crops, to increase resistance to pests might spread to other plants - creating 'super weeds'. This in turn could pose a threat to biodiversity in the environment. "Since pressure to grow, and consume, genetically modified crops is partly driven by sheer commercial interests, wouldn't it be sensible to impose a global ban on them? But even supposing such a ban were feasible, things - as ever - are not so simple. The intensive agriculture widely practised today is not indefinitely sustainable. It uses large amounts of chemical fertilisers and insecticides, destructive to the environment. We can't go back to more traditional modes of farming and still hope to feed the world's population. "Bioengineered crops could reduce the use of chemical pollutants, and hence resolve these problems. "Whichever way you look at it, we are caught up in risk management. With the spread of manufactured risk, governments can't pretend such management isn't their business. And they need to collaborate, since very few new-style risks, have anything to do with the borders of nations. "But neither, as ordinary individuals, can we ignore these new risks - or wait for definitive science evidence to arrive. As consumers, each of us has to decide, whether to try to avoid genetically modified products or not. These risks, and the dilemmas surrounding them, have entered deeply into our everyday lives." ...end quote... This, to my mind, provides a good political context to the argument. The organic movement, in a broader context of a sustainability movement, has to make a case as to why it presents a least risk, or best gamble approach. Giddens states as 'fact' that "We can't go back to more traditional modes of farming and still hope to feed the world's population." Is this a fact? Is there a solid counter argument? You will see that an interesting new aspect of this year's Reith Lectures is not only that they were delivered in Europe, Asia and America, but that internet debate is a part of it, and you can e-mail Giddens. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 9 12:56:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23147 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA00475 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:10:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00427 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.doit.wisc.edu (mail5.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.104.215]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10300 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.183.58] by mail5.doit.wisc.edu id LAA48170 (8.9.1/50); Sun, 9 May 1999 11:10:30 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990509100739.00695e64@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: lkpaine@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 10:07:39 +0000 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: "Laura K. Paine" Subject: Ag Agents In-Reply-To: <002701be9902$77d848c0$7b4b2e9c@oemcomputer> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD0F@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 655 Hello Julie and everyone, As a new Wisconsin Ag Agent (I've got all of 2 months under my belt), I've been thinking a lot about the role of Extension in diseminating information and new technologies, especially controversial issues such as genetically modified crop varieties. Officially, I think Extension is supposed to be more or less neutral on such issues. In reality, of course, we all have our own personal opinions and these do end up being reflected in our programming to some degree. That may or may not have entered into your agent's GMO comments. There's another, more important, aspect of the ag agent's role that comes into play here. I don't know what your ag agent's personal views are concerning GMOs, but I do know that ag agents walk a fine line in providing support and information to the farmers in his or her county. If your agent's county is anything like mine, he is expected to serve a broad spectrum of growers and producers. Extension is one of many sources of information available to farmers. They are under no obligation to come to us for information--it is our job to seek them out and provide appropriate information for those who are inclined to listen. Whatever our personal views on agricultural issues, the last thing we wish to do is alienate our clientele. An alienated farmer is one who is unlikely to return to the Extension service for information of any sort--we've lost them to other sources of information, most likely their seed and chemical suppliers. If we wish to influence farmers toward more sustainable practices, we are unlikely to do so unless we gain and maintain their trust. There are always those who are on the 'cutting edge' of sustainable practices, but the vast majority are not and in order to reach them, we must make Extension a source of reliable, basic information to assist them in making their own decisions about how they farm. People are far more open to new information and change when it comes from a trusted source. That's the view from where I sit, anyway. Kindest regards, Laura At 10:25 PM 5/7/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >Dale wrote: > >> I'm kind of mystified by your reaction. Mainly they were urging farmers >to >> be careful and avoid contamination. What exactly did you disagree with in >> that posting? > >Hi Dale, > >Gosh, you are the 2nd mystified person I've heard from today on this post, >so perhaps some elaboration is in order. > >Yes, the ag agent is suggesting separation of GE corn from non-GE corn. >First, this is the LEAST of additional costs for the farmer in this >scenario, and should be considered in choosing seed for the season. Maybe >possible for some farmers - separate storage facilities, but for smaller >farms, probably unlikely. The 660 ft. "buffer" is something I'd sure be >hard-pressed to see in my area of Wisconsin. Corn, etc. is planted right >into the ditches here...often creating an actual road hazard! Every inch of >taxed property is used for production. And he even suggests that 250-300 ft. >is really sufficient based on wind direction "and other factors" - give me a >break, pretty vague, subjective stuff there. My neighbors plant corn with in >60 feet of my land & they aren't going to quit (lowering their bottom line) >because they're worried about contaminating MY crop! Sorry, but that's the >way it is. That's why our farm is listed as a plaintiff in the Greenpeace >suit. > >The insinuation made by this agent (saying that Europe, etc. have NOT YET >approved GMOs) is misleading...as if its just a matter of time, rather than >a matter of public outrage & pressure against it, which is really the case. >In fact Nestle & Unilever (a couple of the biggest food producers in the >world) have just announced they will NOT be using GE components in their >foodstuffs - and Cadbury has followed (Hooray!!) see: >http://ens.lycos.com/ens/apr99/1999L-04-28-03.html > >Saying its acceptable, if you're feeding it out, is further reason for >concern IMO. Typical big biz, big ag jive...if you're giving it to a cow it >doesn't matter. Regarding milk & meat, as if the body of a cow somehow >negates the effect or "cleanses" the contamination of GE feed she >ingests..that it will not be long before milk (and meat tissue) from a >GE-fed cow will also be detectable through testing. > >And the most irritating part to me is the advice to keep abreast of >developments at your local elevator...lets say the local elevator is ok with >GE now, but in the fall, the policy has changed? What new bans will be in >place at harvest time? Why risk it? And ultimately, who is risking what >here? It's not the ag agent...he just says, "oops, sorry", its not the >elevator, they'll refuse the grain...its the farmer, as always, left holding >the bag (of grain) Are grain elevators going to create separate handling as >well, strict cleaning of bins, etc? Sounds like organic standards to me. >Nope, they will simply not accept it...too costly. > >Who pays the bill when bins of grain are contaminated by the non-GE farmer >who's corn was crossed & he assures the elevator its "clean", but >contaminates tons of export-bound corn...yup, that farmer will be paying >too. Just as a dairy farmer who contaminates a truckload of milk with >antibiotics pays for the entire load (and carries milk-contamination >coverage under his farm insurance policy) some farmers are going to get hit >hard before this is over...and it will probably be the ones who aren't even >using the GE seed! I suggest to you that insurance companies will be looking >long & hard at this issue before long. > >So this is why I'm disturbed. It does not matter one little bit if you are >"on top of the situation", informed. Once that corn is in the ground...its >done. If you don't have animals to feed it to, you're stuck. If you're a >grain farmer, you have taken a far bigger risk than is necessary. The >writing is on the wall, and the ag agents should be presenting both sides of >the issue, rather than doing everything they can to keep this technology >alive & well in this country, the last stronghold of biotech. > >So my biggest complaint is the lack of a rounded picture for the farmer, so >that he can make an intelligent decision. Its a subversive advertisement for >Monsanto, their seed, their chemicals and the destruction of the environment >that they peddle. The ag agent has a responsibility to suggest the best >farming practices known to him/her. To digress to suggesting ways in which >to possibly minimize financial (and environmental) disaster is unacceptable. > >Hope this helps you understand my concern... > >Julie > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Laura Paine Crops and Soils Agent Columbia County Agriculture Center 120 West Conant Street PO Box 567 Portage, WI 53901-0567 608/742-9680 FAX: 608/742-9862 laura.paine@ces.uwex.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 9 23:11:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00674 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 23:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA12098 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA12093 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA23810 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 9 May 99 22:35:09 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 9 May 99 22:34:49 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:34:48 EST Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <4AB6E9259B@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 656 Lon: our corn breeder commented that results on pollen movement from research plots are not necessarily relevant to farm-scale movement. I believe the distance there is about 1 km. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 9 23:37:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01057 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 23:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA01207 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 9 May 1999 23:07:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA01188 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 23:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.111] (pa-ppp26.hevanet.com [204.119.60.111]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA05401; Sun, 9 May 1999 20:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905100306.UAA05401@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 20:09:36 -0700 Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 657 I can't say I'm an expert on it - just passing along what I was told. The breeder is Dr. Gerald Dunn, UNH. I don't know how serious pollen movement would be in a large field, with no windbreaks, in open country like Iowa or the like. Still, since pollen is usually shed in the morning, when air is normally more quiet, it seems like there wouldn't be a huge amount of movement. But then I don't know what kind of contamination levels would be acceptible. In a big field, a hundred pollen grains in the wrong place might multiply into some serious contamination if seed were being saved and the contaminated types were inadvertantly selected. Of if only a very small amount of contaminated grains were needed to throw off tests for BT toxins, or the like. Seems like it wouldn't be hard to do a fast test (fast meaning in a few months) by planting a field of something with an innocuous, but obvious marker such as colored kernals next to a field of non-colored corn. You could pick the colored ones out the same season and get a pretty accurate evaluation. With that kind of marker the corn should still be acceptible for market, so the grower wouldn't be out anything. Anyone out there want to try it? -Lon ---------- >From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" >To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) >Date: Sun, May 9, 1999, 8:34 PM > >Lon: our corn breeder commented that results on pollen movement from >research plots are not necessarily relevant to farm-scale movement. >I believe the distance there is about 1 km. Ann >ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca >Dr. E. Ann Clark >Associate Professor >Crop Science >University of Guelph >Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 >Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 >FAX: 519 763-8933 >http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 01:29:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA02507 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 01:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA27826 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:53:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA27423 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 00:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id QAA09001 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:44:36 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz() by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:28:16 +1200 Message-ID: <77fa2762623a@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz () To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:07:42 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: New Zealand Moves Ahead With GMF Identification X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 658 Posting to Science Wire of the NewsRoom Press Release: Ministry of Health Date: Friday, 7 May 1999 Time: 1:48 pm NZT New Zealand Moves Ahead With GMF Identification The process of identifying genetically modified foods in New Zealand has progressed substantially with the assessment applications from the food industry to the Australia New Zealand Food Authority, Dr Gillian Durham, Director of Public Health, said today. "From these applications we should be able to work out which genetically modified ingredients in foods eaten in New Zealand are covered by the applications, and by process of elimination, which ingredients - if any - are not." "Next week we will share the list of applications with the New Zealand importers and manufacturers. We will also ask them to advise us of any genetically modified foods that they manufacture or import, apart from the ingredients covered by the applications to ANZFA." The ANZFA Standard A18, prohibits the sale of GMFs from 13 May 1999 unless they were the subject of an application to ANZFA by 30 April 1999. Twenty applications were made and ANZFA is now analysing them. If the applications meet the agreed criteria*, the foods they cover can remain on shelves in Australia and New Zealand until ANZFA completes the safety assessment and makes its recommendations to the Australia New Zealand Food Safety Council (ANZFSC). This process will be completed by 30 June 2000. Under the new standard genetically modified ingredients which are not included in the applications may not be sold in New Zealand or Australia from 13 May 1999. "But it is unrealistic for anyone to expect that regulators will be taking immediate action to take food off the shelves," says Dr Durham. "This is an important matter which must be handled properly, and any action must be demonstrably within the law. Given the technical nature of the criteria, and the difficulty of obtaining reliable evidence, it will take some time for industry and regulators to clearly establish which foods are legally on the market and which must be removed. "Our prime aim is public safety and we will not compromise this. However, we have to also consider the impact our actions may have on the food industry, the choice of foods available to New Zealanders and our international legal obligations." The Ministry of Health is working with other government agencies and ANZFA to establish a practicable means of enforcing the standard. "There are limited testing facilities in New Zealand and Australia and these are being explored," says Dr Durham. In New Zealand, the Ministry of Health has contracted ESR to develop GMF testing capabilities. In addition, laboratories further afield are being approached to see whether they can provide reliable testing service to government agencies. The testing necessary is complex with each genetic modification needing a separate test. These tests are not reliable for highly refined ingredients which are often indistinguishable from their traditional counterparts. Consultation on extensions to the labelling requirements for GMFs will start next week. The current standard requires foods that are substantially different from the traditional form to be labelled. The consultation asks whether labelling should be extended to foods which are genetically modified but which are the same as traditional forms in taste, nutritional value, appearance and chemical make-up. This will also provide an opportunity for the public to comment on their views on the higher food costs any additional labelling requirements may cause. BACKGROUND Australian and New Zealand food legislation does not generally require specific pre-market approval for foods whether they are produced using gene technology or not. Nonetheless, foods produced using gene technology, as with all foods, are required under the Food Act 1981 to be safe for human consumption and free from contamination. It is the responsibility of anyone selling food, including genetically modified foods in New Zealand, to ensure that they meet these legal obligations. The Australia New Zealand Food Authority (ANZFA) standard (A18) for the labelling and sale of genetically modified foods has been adopted in both New Zealand and Australia. The standard was gazetted last August and will come into force on 13 May 1999. *The Standard: - provides a general prohibition on the sale of GMFs and requires each genetically modified food to be assessed for safety before it can be sold. - requires labelling - if the genetically modified food is judged to be substantially different to its conventional counterpart, it will require labelling. - sets out the process for safety assessments of specific applications to market all genetically modified foods. Assessments will be made by ANZFA, and require the endorsement of the Council of Ministers to become law in both countries. Timeline 1 Feb 1997 ANZFA releases discussion document on draft GMF standard for consultation 1 April 1997 The Ministry of Health adopts a voluntary interim policy in New Zealand, which requires industry to only use GMFs that have been assessed and approved by aby a competent overseas regulatory authority 20 Aug 1998 GMF standard gazzetted in New Zealand to take effect on 13 May 1999 17 Dec 1998 ANZFSC decide to extend labelling requirements to substantially equivalent GMFs and request ANZFA to develop a recommendation for future labelling requirements. 17 March 1999 ANZFA advised ANZFSC Ministers of the lack of applications by Intellectual Property Holders to have their GMFs assessed by ANZFA. 19 March 1999 Ministry of Health consulted on change to the implementation of the GMF standard. 19 March 1999 ANZFA provided advice to ANZFSC Ministers on the labelling of substantially equivalent GMFs. 30 March 1999 ANZFSC teleconference agreed to change the implementation time line to allow new applications to be accepted. Labelling discussion referred back to ANZFA for further work. 15 April 1999 Variation to Standard (A18) gazetted to change the implementation time line to allow new applications to be accepted. 30 April 1999 Industry had to have all applications in to ANZFA Ends ----------------------------------------------------------------- The newsroom can be found at http://www.newsroom.co.nz Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 06:11:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA04850 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA06209 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 05:07:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA05987 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 05:07:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id UAA20807; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:57:38 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz() by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for multiple addressees; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:04:54 +1200 Message-ID: <63a87bb50ed7@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz () To: Organic Federation of Australia Inc , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:06:02 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: New Zealand Domestic Market Taking Off X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id FAA06077 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 659 Domestic Market Taking Off by Tracy Miles, Organic Pathways, http://www.organicpathways.co.nz/business/story2.html The New Zealand domestic market for organic food has now reached critical mass, said Otago University researcher Dr Hugh Campbell. "Organic suppliers have a fairly good future at the moment," Dr Campbell said. A number of critical mass thresholds have been passed in the last two or three years, he said. Reaching critical mass gives growers the confidence to fully commit themselves to organic production, whereas they may have limited the size of their operation for economic reasons in the past. That is Food Scares Supply has always been a problem on the domestic market, as has demand. Organic production is also relatively inelastic. A shortage in onions one year is not corrected until the following years crop is harvested. "There is a lot more organic produce coming on next year because of the food scares happening at the moment." The spectre of genetically modified food has resulted in the first moment at which New Zealand consumers en masse have had to confront the fact that their food was not clean and green, he said. Other food scares, such as bovine growth hormones, antibiotics in meat, pest residues and mad cow disease have all combined with GMOs (Genetically Modified Organisms) to increase the visibility of organic food. After a television documentary on chicken farming, retailers reported a notable rise i Research indicates that even when fears settle down, people will continue to buy organic food, Dr Campbell said. The more they know, the less people want to buy food they think will harm them, and the average consumer appears to becoming more educated. Export Led The domestic market has also grown on the back of the export market which has taken off in recent years, as growers find other crops to grow alongside their export crops and as fruit or vegetables failing export standards for visual appeal, for instance, end up on New Zealand shelves, much of it As well, exporting growers have found a new security to experiment. Exporting success has also raised the profile of organic food among conventional consumers, with the involvement of homespun companies like Watties (now part of Heinz) giving it an air of normalcy. The local market is also being Elite Food Ironically, the way a market dies is by becoming mainstream and being replaced by another elite product, Dr Campbell said. Most consumers of organic food eat it because it is special or unusual. However, niche products, if well managed, can maintain their market share. Dr Campbell said consumers Links "Organic Farming in New Zealand: An evaluation of the current and future prospects including an assessment of research needs" by Caroline Saunders, Jon Manhire, Hugh Campbell, and John Fairweather is a 1997 report commissioned by MAF. The aims of the study included determining the potential for Opinions expressed by contributors to this website do not necessarily reflect the views of Organic Pathways. Site design by Garnet Publishing & Electric Sheep Web Co. Copyright 1999. Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 07:40:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA05476 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 07:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA02296 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:49:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA02289 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA02390 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 10 May 99 06:50:33 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 10 May 99 06:50:11 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:50:10 EST Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <52F8B547C6@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 660 Lon: > movement. But then I don't know what kind of contamination levels would be > acceptible. In a big field, a hundred pollen grains in the wrong place Evidence is already available to suggest that this is a problem of commercial magnitude, and it can only get worse as mainstream grocery stores take up the non-GMO mantle and testing for GMO contamination becomes more commonplace and sophisticated. Consider the plight of the Texas farmer, who as i understand the story, had grown corn organically, processed it into tortilla chips and sent them off to Europe. They were found to have been contaminated, reportedly by genetic pollution according to the farmer, and sent back - at enormous cost to the farmer. > might multiply into some serious contamination if seed were being saved and > the contaminated types were inadvertantly selected. Of if only a very small > amount of contaminated grains were needed to throw off tests for BT toxins, > or the like. Seems like it wouldn't be hard to do a fast test (fast meaning > in a few months) by planting a field of something with an innocuous, but > obvious marker such as colored kernals next to a field of non-colored corn. This may, or may not, be a suitable test - and either way, the fact that we are having this discussion at all is a clear indication of "technology before science" mentality. As is the case with the Bt resistance problem (see latest issue of Science), companies were in such a rush to make a buck, that they rammed through a technology that is nothing if not externalizing of risk, without an adequate grounding in science. We don't know the pollination distances with certainty, although they are known to be in km rather than meters for field-scale canola, corn, and potato (I cite quite a lot of these figures, with references, in a recent paper given to the Toronto Biotechnology Initiative, a pro-biotech lobby group - see my homepage. We don't know much of anything about allelic frequencies, dominance:recessive relations, or many of the key parameters in the Bt resistance question. Check out 1998 or 1999 refereed publications on the subject, and you will be astounded at the degree to which they still - even today - are based on assumptions in the absence of evidence. The idea you propose may work, but it may not be generalizable because individual GE events can affect such critical processes as % outcrossing. See Bergelson et al., 1998 on the effect of putting an herbicide resistance gene into Arabadopsis - a selfing species - which turned some transgenic lines into 10% outcrossers. Outcrossing has nothing to do with herbicide resistance, but is illustrative of the general phenomenon of unintentional side effects caused by the process of breaching the carefully modulated integrity of both species and chromosome. Recall that, contrary to the hype, GE is far from "precise". Regardless of the method used, transgenes are inserted at random - unreliably, unpredictably, and unrepeatably. According to my breeder colleagues, there is still no method of knowing in advance where in a given chromosome, or even on which chromosome, a presumptive transgene will land. And, as I argue in a talk given on the weekend (The Faulty Assumptions of Field Crop GE, hopefully to be mounted on my homepage within a week or two), "order is everything". It makes a difference where on a chromosome, and on which chromosome, a transgene lands, because genes interact. Arguably, the genes themselves do not matter so much as where they are on the chromosomes. Interaction is everything. This explains, in large part, why unintentional traits - such as outcrossing - can be affected by GE. See Mae-Wan Ho's most helpful book Genetic Engineering: Dream or Nightmare (1998). What this means, is that pollination distances would have to be tested for each commercial GE event - not generalized over the whole species. Or, a worst case scenario would have to be adopted which would wreck havoc on production and commerce. And keep in mind, we are still thinking here on sexual outcrossing, without even introducing the risk of horizontal gene transfer. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 10:36:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA08487 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA19641 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:11:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19619 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.190] (st-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.190]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA29415; Mon, 10 May 1999 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905101311.GAA29415@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 06:14:29 -0700 Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 661 I know what you mean about unexpected results from transgenic material, or even hybrids between distant relatives done the "traditional" way. I've seen hybrids between two species that produced apomictic forms where there hadn't been apomixis before. There are too many unknowns in how new genetic material inserted into an old genome will react to say it's "safe" without even the simple expedient of growing out the material for a good number of generations just to be sure nothing new comes up. In any case, I'll let others carry on the discussion - I was mainly contributing one or two thoughts and haven't time to get into a long discussion from here. -Lon ---------- >From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" >To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) >Date: Mon, May 10, 1999, 4:50 AM > >Lon: > >> movement. But then I don't know what kind of contamination levels would be >> acceptible. In a big field, a hundred pollen grains in the wrong place > >Evidence is already available to suggest that this is a problem of >commercial magnitude, and it can only get worse as mainstream >grocery stores take up the non-GMO mantle and testing for GMO >contamination becomes more commonplace and sophisticated. Consider >the plight of the Texas farmer, who as i understand the story, had >grown corn organically, processed it into tortilla chips >and sent them off to Europe. They were found to have been >contaminated, reportedly by genetic pollution according to the >farmer, and sent back - at enormous cost to the farmer. > > >> might multiply into some serious contamination if seed were being saved and >> the contaminated types were inadvertantly selected. Of if only a very small >> amount of contaminated grains were needed to throw off tests for BT toxins, >> or the like. Seems like it wouldn't be hard to do a fast test (fast meaning >> in a few months) by planting a field of something with an innocuous, but >> obvious marker such as colored kernals next to a field of non-colored corn. > >This may, or may not, be a suitable test - and either way, the fact >that we are having this discussion at all is a clear indication of >"technology before science" mentality. As is the case with the Bt >resistance problem (see latest issue of Science), companies were in >such a rush to make a buck, that they rammed through a technology >that is nothing if not externalizing of risk, without an adequate >grounding in science. > >We don't know the pollination distances with certainty, although >they are known to be in km rather than meters for field-scale canola, >corn, and potato (I cite quite a lot of these figures, with >references, in a recent paper given to the Toronto Biotechnology >Initiative, a pro-biotech lobby group - see my homepage. We don't >know much of anything about allelic frequencies, dominance:recessive >relations, or many of the key parameters in the Bt resistance >question. Check out 1998 or 1999 refereed publications on the >subject, and you will be astounded at the degree to which they still - > even today - are based on assumptions in the absence of evidence. > >The idea you propose may work, but it may not be generalizable because >individual GE events can affect such critical processes as % >outcrossing. See Bergelson et al., 1998 on the effect of putting an >herbicide resistance gene into Arabadopsis - a selfing species - >which turned some transgenic lines into 10% outcrossers. Outcrossing >has nothing to do with herbicide resistance, but is illustrative of >the general phenomenon of unintentional side effects caused by the >process of breaching the carefully modulated integrity of both species >and chromosome. > >Recall that, contrary to the hype, GE is far from "precise". >Regardless of the method used, transgenes are inserted at random - >unreliably, unpredictably, and unrepeatably. According to my breeder >colleagues, there is still no method of knowing in advance where in a >given chromosome, or even on which chromosome, a presumptive >transgene will land. And, as I argue in a talk given on the weekend >(The Faulty Assumptions of Field Crop GE, hopefully to be mounted on >my homepage within a week or two), "order is everything". It makes a >difference where on a chromosome, and on which chromosome, a >transgene lands, because genes interact. Arguably, the genes >themselves do not matter so much as where they are on the >chromosomes. Interaction is everything. This explains, in large >part, why unintentional traits - such as outcrossing - can be >affected by GE. See Mae-Wan Ho's most helpful book Genetic >Engineering: Dream or Nightmare (1998). > >What this means, is that pollination distances would have to be >tested for each commercial GE event - not generalized over the whole >species. Or, a worst case scenario would have to be adopted which >would wreck havoc on production and commerce. And keep in mind, we >are still thinking here on sexual outcrossing, without even >introducing the risk of horizontal gene transfer. Ann > > > >ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca >Dr. E. Ann Clark >Associate Professor >Crop Science >University of Guelph >Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 >Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 >FAX: 519 763-8933 >http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 10:51:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA08776 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11450 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moose.uvm.edu (moose.uvm.edu [132.198.101.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11386 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elk.uvm.edu (elk.uvm.edu [132.198.101.63]) by moose.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA105230; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:52:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (gharris@localhost) by elk.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA123906; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:52:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: elk.uvm.edu: gharris owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:52:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gwyneth E. Harris" X-Sender: gharris@elk.uvm.edu To: Dan Hook cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: UK, GMO etc. In-Reply-To: <018f01be9945$06987340$7fff6ed1@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 662 On Sat, 8 May 1999, Dan Hook wrote: > I have been reading the GMO/European thread with interest for a while. I > have wondered: Did/do the Europeans have a somewhat easier time showing > Monsanto etc. the door because they are a foreign company, not one of the > good old Euopean boys you might say. The American public has it a bit more > difficult because Monsanto is one of the good old US business boys. And > getting GMO labeled will meet alot of resistance from the powers that be. > Also wondering it appears that Europe is going to be GMO free, does that not > mean that Monsanto etc. will fight even harder to get Americans to eat it? > Of course if the farmers and grain elevators find separation more difficult > , some for Europe, different for US, they might just give up and go back to > regular seeds. That actually is another question are these GMO seeds really > easier to grow? Thank-you saneters for your info. Beth > ****************************************************************************** I think that in part you are right--the fact that Monsanto is one of our "Good Old Boys" DOES make it more difficult for us to reject thier products. On the other hand, I think that the major problem is the American consumer's refusal to be involved in their food supply. In Europe, the remnants of a sustainable local system are still visible. Just last year, visiting family in Britain I was struck that evidence of a food's origin is not hidden in celophane to the same extent. For example, in a chain supermarket I found a display of potatoes buried in peat moss--a far superior method to leaving them out in the light, and also a reminder of the fact that they came out of the soil. How many average American consumers would buy these "dirty" potatoes? And walking through the streets I was common to see a side of beef, a whole pig, poultry with heads intact, blood pudding--things that Americans don't want to know about their food. For us there is some kind of perverse idea that non-biodegradeable packaging and UDSA labels make food clean, whereas appopriate storage of vegetables and recent slaughter of meats make them dirty. I don't have any "answers" to our problems, except to accknowledge that a re-education of consumers is inexorably slow. But hey--what are we doing here if not re-educating? Gwyneth Burlington, VT ************************************************************************ > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 11:41:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA09892 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09228 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:42:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09211 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn17tc5.gdinet.com [156.46.27.18]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07618 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 09:42:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:42:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905101442.JAA07618@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: Food for Thought Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 663 Food for 'Thought' Yesterday at our farm I had a great new revelation. While chopping down the fast growing clovers, grasses and dandylions in our garden lanes, the mower kept clogging, then dying. I'd have to tip it upright, dig out the masses of chewed up green-stuff, set 'er down, fire 'er up and continue for the next hundred feet till she clogged again. It's kind of a wimpy mower, bought second hand from a local fix it shop down the road (but at a great price, recycling stuff headed for the landfill, and supporting 'Hank' the local ((and best)) fix it man). The lanes were a bit over grown and a bit wet, so what can I expect? Eventually I was mowing next to the pig and poultry pasture. As I unjammed the mower for the umpteenth time, Amelda came over to see what the 'ta do' was. I said good morning and scratched behind her ears. But she wanted more, and kept staring at the mower or the grass. Ahh-ha!, the grass. I tossed the mass that clogged the mower over to her and she loved it. Pre-chewed grass and clover, all she had to do was swallow it. She was in pig heaven. Soon all three sows and one gilt were begging for grass clipping. I rigged a collector, mowed a bit more lane and fed it to a captive audience. After the pigs had their fill the geese came over to have a go at it. This is wonderful! Now I can do one chore, and with the waste product cut down on my feed bill. In fact, the more I think about it, I begin to realize, this lil' lawnmower is sort of like a greenchopper, wagon, and tractor, in miniature. But this fits in perfectly with our scale of agriculture. Our scale of agriculture can almost be called backyard agriculture. We own 20 and farm 10 acres. This size does not depend on expensive machinery, chemical input, unscrupulous commodity markets or government subsidies. This scale of agriculture attempts to work in harmony with nature, not in conquest of it. It tries to find ways to not do this or that, instead of putting more work and more middle men into the flow of food production systems. It will internalize costs, or better, not create them in the first place. This scale of agriculture permits to flow of money and goods directly between producer and consumer. There are no middlemen, financeirs, or other profiteers weaseling in on my income and coercing me to change my methodology. This scale of agriculture allows one to live with-in means and with-in natures over-ruling life systems. It allows for personal, intimate contact with the gardens, the animals, and even the wild places we foster on the farm. It allows for a real sence of love and stewardship for the land to develop. And not just in our family, but in the whole community of families that frequent our farm. It's the kind of intimacy that won't occur... can't occur on a large-scale commodity farm. In this scale of agriculture, I meet, know and respect the friends who buy the food I produce for them. They come our and pick most of it themselves. I know and work with the tenants who share part of the garden space with the CSA's(Community Supported Agriculture). Their animals share the pasture and pens with my animals. Yesterday Joun'Sta, a tenant on our land said, 'No name for little pig, should have name'. This morning I was mulling over feeding the pigs the lawn clippings. That lil' gilt needs a name, I thought...Thought...Thought! That's it! 'Thought'! Yesterday I made food "Food for 'Thought"! Greg David Prairie Dock Farm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 12:43:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA11669 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15392 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:51:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15354 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dulas.aber.ac.uk (dulas.aber.ac.uk [144.124.16.34]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08669 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 11:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pciifa.wir.aber.ac.uk ([144.124.76.78] helo=nhl) by dulas.aber.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10gsKY-0003LW-00 for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:50:58 +0100 Message-ID: <007f01be9afd$02521610$4e4c7c90@nhl.wir.aber.ac.uk> From: "Nic Lampkin" To: "sanet" Subject: Misuse of statistics - UK developments Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:51:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 664 In a recent message on SANet, I read that: >the following statement appeared in an e-newsletter sent out by a food vendor in England: >Nationally sales of organic food are growing at a rate such that, if it were to >continue at the same rate, 80% of all the food we eat will be organic by the year 2010. Before anyone gets too carried away, the figure derives from a paper I presented at the recent UK organic farming conference at Cirencester, in which I suggested that if growth rates of 35% per year or more could be achieved, then this might be the case, but this was highly unlikely because the average long run trend in Europe was for 25% annual growth. I concluded that the UK was much more likely to achieve 10% by 2010, while the European average could reach more than that. (Organic farming currently accounts for 2% of agricultural land in western Europe (3 million ha) and 1% in the United Kingdom (200,000 ha)). Nic Lampkin Welsh Institute of Rural Studies University of Wales, Aberystwyth GB-Ceredigion SY23 3AL Tel: +44 (0)1970 622248/624471 Fax: +44 (0)1970 611264/622238 http://www.aber.ac.uk/~wirwww/organic To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 14:02:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13530 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28813 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:14:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28804 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.178] (li-ppp13.hevanet.com [204.119.60.178]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11396; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905101714.KAA11396@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:17:31 -0700 Subject: FW: USDA and LSU Embark on New Sugarcane Drainage Research From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 665 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: USDA and LSU Embark on New Sugarcane Drainage Research Date: Mon, May 10, 1999, 7:52 AM NEWS RELEASE: USDA and LSU Embark on New Sugarcane Drainage Research ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 10, 1999 Jill Lee, (301) 504-1627, jlee@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- BATON ROUGE, La., May 10--The USDA's Agricultural Research Service and Louisiana State University Agricultural Center today begin a long-term research project to evaluate pump-enhanced underground drainage for sugarcane fields as a tool for preventing farm chemical run-off. "Sugarcane growers are coming under increasing pressure to reduce the amount of nitrogen fertilizer and other farm chemicals leaving their fields and entering streams and lakes," said ARS agricultural engineer James L. Fouss, who heads the project for the agency's Soil and Water Research Unit in Baton Rouge. "A controlled subsurface drainage system allows rainwater to infiltrate the soil and thus reduces runoff from the land, so agrochemicals and topsoil stay in the field where they belong." The project will allow scientists to evaluate water run off rates from fields with traditionally farmed crops compared to the new method. This could help sugarcane growers learn how well their familiar practices work in pollution control. "The project will be conducted on a 16-acre site at the university's Sugarcane Research Station in St. Gabriel, La.," said Larry Rogers, vice chancellor and experiment station director of LSU's Ag Center. "Today, area sugarcane growers will have an opportunity to tour the site, see subsurface drains installed and ask questions of researchers from ARS and LSU." Two-thirds of the research site will have the subsurface drainage system of corrugated plastic pipe--allowing for improved drainage to remove excess soil-water, but also allowing the water back into the soil by sub-irrigation. The remainder of the site will use only traditional surface drainage. There has been some resistance to the technology because of the expense to install such a system--$450 an acre. But growers are also aware that the pumping system enhances yields and that it would also protect them from getting their harvesting equipment stuck in mud during rainy growing seasons. The environmental protection, however, may be an added reason for growers to consider this irrigation and drainage technology. An agricultural economist will be part of the project's team and will explore ways to make its use more cost effective. ---------- Scientific contact: James L. Fouss or Ted S. Kornecki, ARS Soil and Water Research Unit, Baton Rouge, La., phone (225) 382- 2089, fax (225) 389-0327, jfouss@gumbo.bae.lsu.edu or kornecki@gumbo.bae.lsu.edu: Larry Rodgers, Louisiana State University Ag Center, Baton Rouge, La., phone (225) 388-4181, lrogers@agctr.lsu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 14:34:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14319 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09786 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:35:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09739 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:35:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (8003) by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id mPWBa04194; Mon, 10 May 1999 13:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <806ca8a6.246871ff@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:31:43 EDT Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) To: lonrom@hevanet.com, ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 666 On contamination from GMO corn pollen on neighboring corn fields: an authentic field observation and analysis from Germany last year demonstrated percentages of contamination at 1, 5 and 10 meters from crops grown side by side. I hope by now that the Texas Dept. of Agriculture Organic Progam, Terra Foods and the Texas grower of the corn which may have been the contaimination source have done some research on how the certified organic corn was contaminated. I can check on that. On tolerances for contamination: I don't believe that there are any. If it shows up, it shows up, and percentages ( like the organic tolerances for synthetic contamination) have yet to be publicized, if they have been determined. Perhaps Dr. Fagin at Genetic ID has a handle on that. My concerns regarding dust, i.e., harvest/handling contamination, have not been allayed since I first brought it up some time ago. If there are no tolerances, and we are dealing with a molecular/DNA issue, I assume that dust may trigger a positive result. Therefore, the dust spewing out of a combine in a 15 knot wind might also impact a neighboring crop. Dr. Fagin claims that the actual crop, in visible quantities ( he suggested one cup of corn) would be the amount required to determine GMO contamination. My concerns also are on augers, bins, trucks, seed cleaning equipment. One mitigating feature on dust is that the crop may be washed prior to processing. Steve Sprinkel Fairfield, Iowa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 16:21:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA17526 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA15560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:36:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15409 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA13773 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phcglen (12.2.59.31) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Mon, 10 May 99 14:37:03 CDT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990510192725.006b9e9c@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:27:25 -0600 To: "Nic Lampkin" From: Jane Sooby Subject: Re: Misuse of statistics - UK developments Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, roger@PROVENDER.NET Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 667 Dear Nic, Thank you for the clarification. The statistic seemed incredible to me, one reason I put it out there to find out the response. The power of our communication technology continues to amaze me, as a comment that came overseas to me went back overseas to you and you were able to recognize it as your own! And it all started because I ordered some organic chocolate bars! There was no intent to "misuse statistics," but instead to provoke thought. Jane >In a recent message on SANet, I read that: > >>the following statement appeared in an e-newsletter sent out by a food >vendor in England: > >>Nationally sales of organic food are growing at a rate such that, if it >were to >continue at the same rate, 80% of all the food we eat will be >organic by the year 2010. > >Before anyone gets too carried away, the figure derives from a paper I >presented at the recent UK organic farming conference at Cirencester, in >which I suggested that if growth rates of 35% per year or more could be >achieved, then this might be the case, but this was highly unlikely because >the average long run trend in Europe was for 25% annual growth. I concluded >that the UK was much more likely to achieve 10% by 2010, while the European >average could reach more than that. >(Organic farming currently accounts for 2% of agricultural land in western >Europe (3 million ha) and 1% in the United Kingdom (200,000 ha)). > > >Nic Lampkin > >Welsh Institute of Rural Studies >University of Wales, Aberystwyth >GB-Ceredigion SY23 3AL To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 17:05:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA18576 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00995 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:02:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00985 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14278 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA28876 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 15:02:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199905102002.PAA28876@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 15:01:57 -0500 Subject: /Fusarium graminearum//grain X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 668 Howdy, all-- >From ProMED. Thought this might interest you grain-watchers. No big news here, but thought you might enjoy seeing the glimpse that the global epidemiology community gets of such an issue. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCAB DISEASE, WHEAT - CANADA, USA ****************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 19:24:21 -0400 From: "Marjorie P. Pollack" Source: American Phytopathogical Society [edited] Scab Disease Causes Serious Damage to Small Grain Crops - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ - ---------- Six successive years of disease have taken their toll on many small grain farmers in the Red River Valley of North Dakota, Minnesota, and Manitoba. This extended episode is bringing ruin to many farmers in the region. Additional outbreaks in Midwestern and Eastern states of the USA as well as Central and Eastern Canada are leaving thousands of farmers searching for solutions. The fungal pathogen responsible for the vast devastation is primarily _Fusarium graminearum_ which causes Fusarium head blight, more commonly known as scab. This all-consuming disease shrivels the kernels of small grains such as wheat, rye and barley, significantly reducing yields. "Moisture, at the time of flowering, is the main stimulus necessary for scab,'' says Robert W. Stack, plant pathologist at North Dakota State. "If a wet environment exists for an extended period, even with low levels of the fungus in the field or temperatures that aren't usually favorable to disease development, severe scab disease can result.'' During the first part of this century, scab was considered a major threat to wheat and barley and recently it has resurfaced worldwide increasing in intensity. A succession of "wet cycle'' years beginning in 1993 is linked to the current scab epidemic. According to the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), "From 1991 to 1997, American farmers lost 470 million bushels of wheat, worth $2.6 billion, because of the scab epidemic.'' These substantial losses recently provoked a national response resulting in the development of the "US Wheat and Barley Scab Initiative,'' a consortium of scientists and agribusiness leaders working together to solve the scab epidemic. Stack says "Breeding for disease resistance is underway worldwide and soon new cultivars with increased resistance to scab and developed by conventional breeding methods will be available.'' For more information on scab, visit the APS May web feature story with photographs and links to additional sites at http://www.scisoc.org - -- ProMED-mail [More effective fungicides, molecular marker-assisted plant breeding techniques, and highly resistant cultivars are being employed in controlling this serious disease - Mod.DH] <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the towers of steel, belief goes on and on in this heartland, in this heartland soil. --U2 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 21:24:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23728 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA05984 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:40:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f17.hotmail.com [207.82.250.28]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA05970 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 64416 invoked by uid 0); 11 May 1999 00:39:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19990511003933.64415.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.125.231 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:39:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.125.231] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:39:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 669 What exactly is everyone using as a definition of contamination? >From: Sprinkraft@aol.com >To: lonrom@hevanet.com, ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca >CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) >Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:31:43 EDT > >On contamination from GMO corn pollen on neighboring corn fields: an >authentic field observation and analysis from Germany last year >demonstrated >percentages of contamination at 1, 5 and 10 meters from crops grown side by >side. I hope by now that the Texas Dept. of Agriculture Organic Progam, >Terra >Foods and the Texas grower of the corn which may have been the >contaimination >source have done some research on how the certified organic corn was >contaminated. I can check on that. > >On tolerances for contamination: I don't believe that there are any. If it >shows up, it shows up, and percentages ( like the organic tolerances for >synthetic contamination) have yet to be publicized, if they have been >determined. Perhaps Dr. Fagin at Genetic ID has a handle on that. > >My concerns regarding dust, i.e., harvest/handling contamination, have not >been allayed since I first brought it up some time ago. If there are no >tolerances, and we are dealing with a molecular/DNA issue, I assume that >dust >may trigger a positive result. Therefore, the dust spewing out of a combine >in a 15 knot wind might also impact a neighboring crop. Dr. Fagin claims >that >the actual crop, in visible quantities ( he suggested one cup of corn) >would >be the amount required to determine GMO contamination. My concerns also are >on augers, bins, trucks, seed cleaning equipment. One mitigating feature on >dust is that the crop may be washed prior to processing. > >Steve Sprinkel >Fairfield, Iowa > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 10 21:26:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA23766 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA02608 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:33:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f264.hotmail.com [207.82.251.155]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA02527 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 20:33:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17573 invoked by uid 0); 11 May 1999 00:33:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990511003313.17572.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.125.231 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 May 1999 17:33:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.125.231] From: "J. S." To: gharris@zoo.uvm.edu Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: UK, GMO etc. Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:33:13 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 670 Just a small comment from one who has infiltrated the other side, haha! was at a conference of wheat breeders recently and one presentation was from a biotech nut from novartis, when she was asked what their plan is about Europe and their refusal of engineered foods, she basically shrugged and said she thought they'd come around--of course she wasn't marketing but a little indicative of the attitude of the people in those companies-alot of them don't take european resistance seriously, but i believe they will soon. GMO seeds aren't necessarily easier to grow, they just make bigger "better" ( as an ecologist, I put this in very big quotes!), more disease resistant, etc. etc. plants _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 10:45:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04839 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA17133 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:38:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17129 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:42:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: POSITION VACANCY FOR MICROBIOLOGIST OR CHEMICAL ENGINEER Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:42:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 671 -----Original Message----- From: Dennis E. Rowe [mailto:derfru@ra.msstate.edu] Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 3:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: POSITION VACANCY FOR MICROBIOLOGIST OR CHEMICAL ENGINEER Permanent Position advertised for Microbiologist or possibly a Chemical Engineer in the USDA-ARS Poultry Research Unit at Mississippi State, MS This GS 11/12 position announcement is found at Researcher will work with multidisciplinary teams and assist in the development of technologies to reduce adverse impacts of poultry manure on environment. This may include diet modification and/or biomedical, mechanical, and microbial alteration of manure. CLOSING DATE for this announcement is June 1, 1999. PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS NOTICE TO ANYONE WHO MAY BE INTERESTED, THANKS. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 11:07:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05305 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29967 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:03:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA29901 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA22818; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:03:18 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma021706; Tue, 11 May 99 09:02:30 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:02:30 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD11@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Corn Pollen Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:02:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 672 Lon and Ann, Lon wrote: > says that corn pollen doesn't really travel as far as most > people think. He says he plants adjoining blocks of corn > and almost all the cross-pollination is in the first two > rows - beyond that it drops off to nothing within a few feet. That is not quite right. Pollen, even big corn pollen, can travel a long way. Ann mentioned 1 km. That is probably in the ballpark. But far from the source, the pollen is dilute and tends to get swamped by the huge sea of pollen within a corn field. It is a numbers game. The problem is worse in seed production, since we normally plant only one row of male for each four or six rows of female. So the sea of native pollen is not quite so thick. In the seed production context, isolation is normally 330 feet, and unless we are really unlucky (contaminant nicks with seed field, wind blows strongly from that direction at flowering, or male parent timing is off), contamination rate is well under 1%. Also, the relative sizes of the two fields makes a difference, and seed fields tend to be fairly small. I have some old references on pollen travel if you are interested. The big issue is what will the tolerance be for GMO kernels in non-GMO grain (or seed) bound for Europe. Suppose regulators use PCR to check for characteristic GMO DNA in grain. PCR is so sensitive that you could probably pick up contamination at the rate of 1 kernel in 10,000. It is impossible to avoid GMO contamination at that level. Fortunately, European law governing GMO allows for trace contamination. I have heard that a tolerance of 1% or so is expected for GMO seeds in non-GMO seed. I don't know about grain, but it would be silly to have a more stringent tolerance for grain than for seed. If tolerances on that order are accepted, they won't be hard to meet. I think it is a matter of time before people get used to the idea of GMO's and stop worrying about it so much. Nevertheless, the grain/seed industries have to listen to what the customers want. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 11:21:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05651 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06561 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:12:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06453 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guppy.pond.net (guppy.pond.net [205.240.25.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02593 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ddecou (pAp6.pond.net [207.149.187.6]) by guppy.pond.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id HAA25949 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 07:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990511071343.00794490@pond.net> X-Sender: ddecou@pond.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:13:43 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: David DeCou Subject: Contamination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 673 The definition for contamination of crops by GMO's within Organic circles will have to be absolutely none detectable. This derives from last years proposed rules from the USDA. The response from consumers was overwhelmingly NO GMO's. Some of the methods of testing for gmo's give results which are simply Some or None. Whether this standard will be practical is another question. Most of us in organic circles have come to realize that we should not describe our products as pesticide-free because of inherent background pesticide levels now existent practically everywhere on planet earth at some level or other. Clearly the GMO level issue will be much more complicated because plants reproduce themselves, unlike pesticides. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 11:34:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05980 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19807 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:34:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA19792 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:34:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA02187; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:34:28 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xmaa01250; Tue, 11 May 99 09:33:38 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:33:37 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD12@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: UK, GMO etc. Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:33:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 674 Beth, > Did/do the Europeans have a somewhat easier time showing > Monsanto etc. the door because they are a foreign company, > not one of the good old Euopean boys you might say. Ciba, (now Novartis) based in Switzerland was first on the market with Bt corn. I think Monsanto created ill will by appearing too aggressive. > Also wondering it appears that Europe is going to be GMO free, Some GMO constructs have been accepted in Europe. The bigger issue there is labeling. > does that not mean that Monsanto etc. will fight even harder > to get Americans to eat it? I don't think Monsanto, etc. are fighting about this in the U.S. market. Eating GMO's appears to be a non-issue in the U.S. > Of course if the farmers and grain elevators find separation > more difficult, some for Europe, different for US, they might > just give up and go back to regular seeds. I think the days are numbered for "regular seeds." Whether GMO or not, there is an explosion of diversity in grain and agronomic characteristics of varieties. There is money to be made by the development of identity-preserved channels. Non-GMO grain is just one type of specialty item. There are special wheats for noodles, steam bread, cookies, special soybeans that are better for soy-milk and tofu, low phytate soy, non-GMO herbicide resistance, high-oil corn, corn that mills better, low mycotoxin varieties etc, etc. No doubt it will be a bumpy road (especially for the grain companies). Also, remember, in the US there is a huge sink (domestic livestock) for out-of-tolerance specialty grain. > That actually is another question are these GMO seeds really > easier to grow? I have looked at a lot of Bt corn, and it REALLY looks good next to conventional corn under heavy ECB pressure. Herbicide resistant crops offer a lot of weed management flexibility. The seed industry was taken by surprise at how fast these products took off. It is all market-driven by farmer demand. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 12:15:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA06962 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA11402 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:12:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from guppy.pond.net (guppy.pond.net [205.240.25.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11382 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ddecou (pAp31.pond.net [207.149.187.31]) by guppy.pond.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id IAA02699 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 08:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990511081348.007c1100@pond.net> X-Sender: ddecou@pond.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:13:48 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: David DeCou Subject: Contamination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 675 The definition for contamination of crops by GMO's within Organic circles will have to be absolutely none detectable. This derives from last years proposed rules from the USDA. The response from consumers was overwhelmingly NO GMO's. Some of the methods of testing for gmo's give results which are simply Some or None. Whether this standard will be practical is another question. Most of us in organic circles have come to realize that we should not describe our products as pesticide-free because of inherent background pesticide levels now existent practically everywhere on planet earth at some level or other. Clearly the GMO level issue will be much more complicated because plants reproduce themselves, unlike pesticides. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 12:25:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07197 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16195 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:24:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16117 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA21155 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 11 May 99 11:26:24 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 11 May 99 11:26:02 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:26:02 EST Subject: RE: UK, GMO etc. In-reply-to: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD12@vela.phibred.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <6F928A01A1@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 676 Dale: labelling is not the issue. Informed decision making is what is missing. When virtually all of the evidence available to producers, consumers, and policymakers comes from proponents - whether in industry or government, it is implausible in the extreme to even imply that labelling is a meaningful exercise for "informed" decisionmaking. In Canada, $700 million dollars is spent annually by the federal and provincial governments to develop and promote biotechnology. Virtually none, and no targeted program, focuses on risk assessment either through food safety or environmental risks. In the US, the 1990 Farm Bill required that 1% of the USDA biotech budget be allocated to risk assessment. That is about $1.5 million, which supports a few, largely excellent projects. But that it still a pittance compared to 99% awarded to the "pro" side. There can be no clearer indication of the degree to which government has abandoned its historic role in safeguarding society and the environment in favor of that of an advocate (and apologist) for industry than what happened in Colombia earlier this year. The behavior of the US and Canadian governments (and that of OZ and 3 South American nations) was reprehensible in the extreme, in obstructing four years of effort leading up to the doomed Biosafety Protocol signing at Cartegena, Colombia. So, in the absence of meaningful evidence on risk (and recall, please, that absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence - it just means the research hasn't been done), labelling that something is GMO will be a pointless exercise for the vast majority of citizens. What is needed is a concerted effort to assess the degree to which risks actually exist, and to quantify and report them, before expecting producers, consumers, or policymakers to make an "informed" decision. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 12:48:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07800 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA05216 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:55:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05195 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA107574 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:54:42 -0500 Message-ID: <3738529B.1345DEA1@missouri.edu> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:54:03 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson Organization: University of Missouri X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: PCR for detecting GMOs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 677 Dale: You wrote: > Suppose regulators use PCR to check for > characteristic GMO DNA in grain. PCR is so sensitive that you could > probably pick up contamination at the rate of 1 kernel in 10,000. It is > impossible to avoid GMO contamination at that level. > Can you explain what PCR is as a test? I have really been wondering about how the Europeans are able to detect GMOs in large shipments of commodity crops. Thanks in advance. Mary -- Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. Network Coordinator Food Circles Networking Project University of Missouri Outreach and Extension Department of Rural Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 Tele: 573-882-7463 Fax: 573-882-1473 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 12:55:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08039 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA03909 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:53:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA03896 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:57:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'\"Wendy K. Wintersteen\"'" Subject: Director, Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:56:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 678 -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:17:13 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Wendy K. Wintersteen" Subject: Director, Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture I am writing to ask your assistance in distributing the vacancy announcement (shown below) for the Director of the Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture at Iowa State University. If you need additional information, please email me. Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely, Wendy Wintersteen, Director, ISU Extension to Agriculture and Natural Resources Iowa State University Phone: 515/294-7801; FAX: 515/294-5334 e-mail:x1agdir@exnet.iastate.edu or wwinters@iastate.edu IOWA STATE UNIVERSITY Director, Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture Iowa State University is seeking a prominent scientist with exceptional leadership and administrative skills to direct the Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture. The center is internationally recognized for its research, outreach, and educational programs that foster the development of sustainable agriculture production systems and alternative practices that are environmentally sound, socially acceptable, and economically competitive. The center has an annual support base of at least $1.6 million. Iowa State University is one of the nation's leading land-grant institutions. It is located in Ames, Iowa, a community of 50,000 people recently ranked as the second most-livable small city in the nation. Iowa State is a Carnegie Foundation Research I university and is internationally known for its agricultural education and research programs. For a comprehensive description of this position, visit Web site: www.ag.iastate.edu/news/leopold.html Applicants should submit a letter of interest; a current resume; and the names, addresses, and phone numbers of three references. The search committee will begin screening applications July 1, 1999, and will continue until the position is filled. Send applications and nominations to Dr. Wendy Wintersteen, Chair, Leopold Center Search Committee, Iowa State University, 132 Curtiss Hall, Ames, Iowa 50011-1050. Iowa State University is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer and encourages nominations of, and applications from, women and minority candidates. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 12:59:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08220 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA13965 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:09:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA13895 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA14630; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:09:11 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma013546; Tue, 11 May 99 11:08:07 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:08:06 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD13@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: GMO testing Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:08:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 679 David and Steve, David DeCou wrote: > The definition for contamination of crops by GMO's within > Organic circles will have to be absolutely none detectable. Steve Sprinkel wrote: > On tolerances for contamination: I don't believe that there > are any. The easy way to handle this problem is just make the test insensitive. Most people understand so little about statistics and probability that they won't care. The easiest way to do that is to limit the number of kernels tested. > Dr. Fagin claims that the actual crop, in visible quantities > ( he suggested one cup of corn) would be the amount required > to determine GMO contamination. That will be sufficiently insensitive that plenty of corn will pass, but enough positives will occur to maintain a viable testing industry. David wrote: > Most of us in organic circles have come to realize that we should > not describe our products as pesticide-free because of inherent > background pesticide levels now existent practically everywhere... Same thing for GMO corn pollen. The problem with really stringent standards (ie. big samples) is that so many batches will fail the test that "GMO-free" grain will become very expensive. That might be good if you want to grow "organic" corn in the Gobi desert. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 13:25:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08700 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA03053 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:36:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02989 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA20766; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:36:50 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma019933; Tue, 11 May 99 11:36:05 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:36:05 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD14@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: UK, GMO etc. Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:36:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 680 Ann, > Dale: labelling is not the issue. Informed decision making is what > is missing. When I say "Labelling" as an issue I mean to include consumer decision-making as part of the issue. > So, in the absence of meaningful evidence on risk (and recall, > please, that absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence - > it just means the research hasn't been done), labelling that > something is GMO will be a pointless exercise for the vast majority > of citizens. The GMO issue is another example of miniscule, immeasurably small risk (as far as we can tell) being trotted out as an inflammatory red herring to push a very comprehensive political (anthropocentric) agenda. I think that worrying about GMO's truly is a "pointless exercise." Almost everyone in the public research community, the industry, the regulatory community, the political center (at least in the US) believes the risks are very small. Sure, studies on safety should continue but the crisis atmosphere is contrived. Sanet energy would be better spent on figuring out how to ameliorate the devastating effects six billion people are having on wild nature, than on bureaucratic boutique food regulation for rich people who have nothing better to worry about. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 13:49:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09241 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA12873 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:55:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12767 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA04018 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 11 May 99 12:57:09 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 11 May 99 12:56:40 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:56:39 EST Subject: RE: UK, GMO etc. In-reply-to: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD14@vela.phibred.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <7115444D73@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 681 Dale: just curious. How is that one is able to determine that the risk is so small as to be unworthy of effort at detection, if one has not done the studies to test/demonstrate this in the first place? As far as I have been able to determine, scientific conclusions are usually reached *after* a study has been done, rather than *before*? The potential risks are far from small - see some of my recent papers posted on my homepage for specific references. It is quite correct to state that "there is little or no evidence", but this should not be inferred to mean that little or no risk was actually determined in scientific studies. Rather, that it hasn't been tested. We are not asking the right questions - indeed, behind the facade of substantial equivalence, is government/industry asking any questions at all? Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 13:54:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09359 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:54:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA15564 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:02:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15552 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:02:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.171] (ke-ppp21.hevanet.com [198.5.254.171]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09485; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905111702.KAA09485@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:59:18 -0700 Subject: FW: Labs Play Key Role in Developing Tomorrow's Wheats From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 682 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Labs Play Key Role in Developing Tomorrow's Wheats Date: Tue, May 11, 1999, 7:29 AM STORY LEAD: Labs Play Key Role in Developing Tomorrow's Wheats ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 11, 1999 Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- When sixth-graders tour the Soft Wheat Quality Laboratory of the Agricultural Research Service in Wooster, Ohio, food technologist Charles S. Gaines tells them he's working on wheat flour that may be used in their wedding cakes. That's because it takes 8 to 14 years to breed a new commercial wheat variety. ARS is the USDA's chief scientific agency. Before growers receive a new wheat variety, ARS researchers at four wheat quality laboratories have thoroughly analyzed thousands of experimental breeding lines from federal, state, and private sources. Out of 2,000 samples, only one or two may eventually become commercial varieties. The scientists at all four ARS quality labs evaluate how each wheat line or variety performs in milling and baking trials so breeders can make the best choices. When breeders are really serious about a wheat variety and are close to releasing it, the ARS quality laboratory personnel perform the final test: they bake bread and cookies and make noodles and spaghetti. Sometimes breeders can't supply enough flour samples from their experimental lines to perform adequate baking tests. So ARS baker Margo S. Caley at the Hard Winter Wheat Quality Laboratory in Manhattan, Kan., devised thimble-sized baking pans that hold tiny bread loaves. The small loaves require only two tablespoons of flour. ARS Western Wheat Quality Laboratory researchers in Pullman, Wash., are conducting the biggest research effort on waxy wheat in North America through a cooperative research and development agreement with a major food company. Starch from waxy wheat absorbs and retains more water than does normal starch. ARS researchers at the Hard Red Spring and Durum Wheat Quality Laboratory in Fargo, N.D., are transferring glutenin protein genes from bread wheat to durum to develop dual-purpose bread and pasta varieties that may sell at more stable prices. The May issue of Agricultural Research magazine contains an overview of research at the ARS quality laboratories. The article can also be found on the world wide web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/baking0599.htm ----------- Scientific contacts: Okkyung Kim Chung, ARS Grain Marketing Research and Production Center, Manhattan, Kan., phone (785) 776-2703, fax (785) 776-2792, okchung@usgmrl.ksu.edu; Patrick L. Finney, ARS Soft Wheat Quality Research Laboratory, Wooster, Ohio, phone (330) 263- 3890, fax (330) 263-3658, pfinney@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu; Craig F. Morris, ARS Western Wheat Quality Laboratory, Pullman, Wash., phone (509) 335-8573, fax (509) 335-8573, wwql@wsu.edu; Gary A. Hareland, ARS Hard Red Spring and Durum Wheat Quality Lab, Fargo, N.D., phone (701) 239-1340, fax (701) 239-1369, hareland@badlands.nodak.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 15:21:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11368 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA26534 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:11:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pueblo.rain.org (IDENT:root@pueblo.rain.org [198.68.144.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA26497 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coyote.rain.org (root@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by pueblo.rain.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27238 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:11:24 -0700 Received: from sals (modem-pool-124.rain.org [198.68.145.124]) by coyote.rain.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12581 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 11:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003401be9bd9$39ff6540$7c9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: Subject: Fw: NZ kiwifruit rejects GE Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:07:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 683 .----- Original Message ----- From: Glen Atkinson & Christy Hartlage To: Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 8:48 AM Subject: NZ kiwifruit rejects GE > NZ KIWIFRUIT REJECTS GE > > In a move completely contrary to the rest of the NZ agricultural > industry the NZ kiwifruit marketing board announced to day that it has > no GE products presently for sale and that it will not be funding any GE > research in the foreseeable future. > > Marketing the Zesperi brand of kiwifruit, the board has been influenced > by the consumers, mostly the Japanese and Europeans who have told them > clearly they can have access as long as they are GE free. > > In turn their company policy has been stated as > " We want environmental integrity and food safety to become synonymous > with the Zesperi brand and system." > > While the organic production is still only 2% of the industry, its > influence is beginning to be felt. ( The 2:98 rule kicking in ) The NZ > kiwifruit industry has already moved to reduce chemical imputs and has > gone from some 28 chemical sprays a year to four or five, with a 5 > month chemical spray free period before harvest. > > The packhouse leading the organic movement, Centrepac has been eagerly > mergered with a few times in as many years, as other industry players > see their knowledge and experience is the way of the future. > > In contrast to this every other ag sector in NZ is actively exploring GE > options, still believing it has a future. Even though a recent poll > showed 60% of NZ consumers do not want GE food. Interestingly the NZ > government has had the presence of mind to invest $100 million into GE > research, while neglecting to find the time to implement any regulation > or risk assessment policies whatsoever. It has been determined there is > 56 GE organisms and approximately 70% of the food on our supermarket > shelves with GE organisms in them, and the government is allowing > another 14 months free access of untested and unregulated GE products on > our market, because the GE industry did not get itself together to > register their products by the May 13 deadline. > > So good on the kiwifruit marketing board for taking the initative and > hopefully leading the rest of our producers into the future. > > Glen Atkinson. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 15:50:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12395 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA11828 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:44:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from e245000n0.hart.k12.ky.us ([170.180.51.76]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA11781 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by E245000N0 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:34:03 -0500 Message-ID: <916DBDF70285D011931A0000F81E023D2B9902@E245000N0> From: "Wiediger, Alison" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" Subject: RE: UK, GMO etc. Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:33:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 684 Right on Ann. The real point is that as usual, the studies to determine risk have not been done. True to their normal tactics, the large, unnamed companies, usually hand in hand with government (let's say it like it is, money, not public health talks), are trying to force us to accept as healthy food, something that may be the exact opposite. What really frosts me about the issue, is that farmers in this country (USA), at least in my part of the country (KY), seem to be virtually unaware that the seed that they pay a premium price for, may yield a crop for which the market continues to diminish. Can't say - oh, we'll just feed it to cattle, pigs, chicken. If indeed there are health risks, what are the possibilities that those risks will persist in the meat of animals fed with it. We need to at least make the farmers aware, so they can make an informed decision about what they grow. There has certainly been no mention about it in our newspapers, or in the weekly extension report from our state university. As organic farmers, now we not only have to worry about pesticide drift from our neighbors who see nothing wrong with spraying in a 10+mph wind, and road workers who indiscriminately spray all roadsides, not understanding that some people would rather mow, but with pollen drift that will not only ruin our market for that crop, but contaminate our seed (we use a lot of open pollinated crops to safeguard our seed bank) FOREVER!!! Pandora's box. Maybe a lot worse. Alison Wiediger Au Naturel Farm Smiths Grove, KY > ---------- > From: E. Ann Clark, Associate > Professor[SMTP:aclark@plant.uoguelph.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 12:56 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: UK, GMO etc. > > Dale: just curious. How is that one is able to determine that the > risk is so small as to be unworthy of effort at detection, if one has > not done the studies to test/demonstrate this in the first place? > > As far as I have been able to determine, scientific conclusions are > usually reached *after* a study has been done, rather than *before*? > > The potential risks are far from small - see some of my recent papers > posted on my homepage for specific references. It is quite correct > to state that "there is little or no evidence", but this should not > be inferred to mean that little or no risk was actually determined in > scientific studies. Rather, that it hasn't been tested. We are not > asking the right questions - indeed, behind the facade of > substantial equivalence, is government/industry asking any questions > at all? Ann > > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca > Dr. E. Ann Clark > Associate Professor > Crop Science > University of Guelph > Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 > Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 > FAX: 519 763-8933 > http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:16:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13036 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:16:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09042 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:26:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08999 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:26:14 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.221] (term5-47.vta.west.net [205.254.241.175]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BC52C24BBF for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 5 (Lowest) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:25:47 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: UK: Stop GM Foods - Genetic threat to organic food Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 685 Stop GM Foods - Genetic threat to organic food By MARIE WOOLF, Political Correspondent INDEPENDENT (London) May 9 GENETIC contamination of various kinds is inevitable if GM crops are grown here commercially, according to unpublished research commissioned by ministers. And organic farmers could face ruin if GM crops are allowed to be grown on a commercial scale in Britain, says the report, now being studied in Whitehall. It warns that organic crops are certain to be contaminated by GM plants because their pollen can spread far beyond the boundaries of fields. The conclusions of the report, written by biotechnology and agriculture experts at the John Innes Centre in Norwich, have severe implications for Britain's burgeoning organic food sector. Organic food is defined as being "pesticide and additive free" in Britain and any kind of genetic engineering is banned by the Soil Association, which regulates organic farming. The report says organic farmers should set standards for acceptable levels of pollution by GM plants and that a system for checking for contamination should be put in place. "Neither source of contamination, either pollen or seed, can be entirely eliminated, so acceptable levels have to be decided on," says the report. But organic farmers say that the report supports their view that GM crops pose a serious threat to their livelihoods. They argue that consumer confidence in organic food would inevitably be undermined if even limited contamination was tolerated. The report, Organic Farming and Gene Transfer from Genetically Modified Crops, examined data from trials of GM crops to see whether the proposed "buffer zones" between fields of GM and organic crops would protect them from contamination. It asserts that the proposed barriers around ordinary crops could result in up to one per cent of organic plants becoming GM hybrids. The Soil Association has said that a six-mile barrier is the minimum guarantee that organic crops are not tainted. "We are determined to maintain the purity of organic crops in the UK and this is why we have set ourselves against GM," said Richard Young of the Soil Association. "The boundaries between GM crops are totally inadequate to protect organic farmers from GM crops. We are about sustainable agriculture working in harmony with nature - not altering it for a quick-fix solution." GM pollen can travel large distances on the wind, and is also carried by bees. GM seeds can also fall off trucks and farm machinery during transport or be left in the ground, leading to the growth of stray plants. Ministers have promised to protect Britain's growing organic farming sector from the threat from GM crops. But environmentalists say that organic farmers are being betrayed. "The Government seems to be about to renege on its promise to protect the organic farmer from genetic pollution," said Pete Riley of Friends of the Earth. "Non-organic farmers hoping to get into the expanding GM free market are also vulnerable to this type of contamination. with organic produce no level of GM contamination is acceptable." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:17:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13043 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08926 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:26:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08863 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:26:00 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.221] (term5-47.vta.west.net [205.254.241.175]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4796F24BC5 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 5 (Lowest) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:25:44 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: UK: Farmers pull out of GM crop trials Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 686 AGRICULTURE: Big fall in Norfolk [GE] test sites Farmers pull out of GM crop trials "It must be confined to the laboratory." Jonathan Matthews, NGIN spokesman By Chris Bishop Eastern Daily Press (EDP) 6/5/99 Genetically modified food firms are facing a crisis of confidence as Norfolk's farmers turn their backs on them. Half the farmers who have agreed to take part in trials have now pulled out, it was revealed last night. Government figures show the number of test sites in Norfolk alone fell from 44 in 1998 to just 14 this year. Fears over the safety of GM crops were the main reason cited by former GM farmers replying to a survey carried out by Norfolk Genetic Information Network. Last night Norwich-based NGIN said its findings proved ministers should halt larger GM trials, due to start this summer, until more is known about long-term effects. "It goes to show that there's no room for complacency," NGIN spokesman Jonathan Matthews said. "Just when unease is growing among farmers, the Government is rushing into new farmscale trials that will turn the countryside into a vast open air laboratory. "We certainly need extensive research but until the risks are far better understood it must be confined to the laboratory." East Anglia used to have more test sites than any other part of Britain. Most are sponsored by biotechno logy firms like AgrEvo and Monsanto. Yesterday King's Lynn based AgrEvo insisted that it had no problems finding farmers willing to host test sites. The Ministry of Agriculture said tests were necessary to show GM foods were safe. "The reason we need these tests to go ahead is so that we can assess their safety," a spokesman said. Mike Hollingsworth regional spokesman for the National Farmers' Union said: "A lot of farmers are concerned to ensure that GM crops are safe. "But if the trials which would show whether they are safe don't go ahead we aren't going to get the answers anyway." Swaffham smallholder Brian Baxter, who this year hit out at plans to grow GM test crops near his organic plot, said: "Conversations I've had with fellow farmer certainly suggest there is a gap opening up on this issue between what is being said in public and what many are prepared to say in private. "Britain's farmers have already been badly hurt over issues like BSE and organophosphates. "I think they may be starting to wake up to the fact that they could be sold down the river yet again and that their livelihoods are at stake." NGIN sent questionnaires to 14 Norfolk farmers who have taken part in GM trials. Of the nine who replied seven said they were no longer involved. http://members.tripod.com/~ngin To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:21:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13173 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09613 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09596 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:05 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.221] (term5-38.vta.west.net [205.254.241.166]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DEF324BA7 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:29:04 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: UK: Stop GM Foods - Genetic threat to organic food Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 687 Stop GM Foods - Genetic threat to organic food By MARIE WOOLF, Political Correspondent INDEPENDENT (London) May 9 GENETIC contamination of various kinds is inevitable if GM crops are grown here commercially, according to unpublished research commissioned by ministers. And organic farmers could face ruin if GM crops are allowed to be grown on a commercial scale in Britain, says the report, now being studied in Whitehall. It warns that organic crops are certain to be contaminated by GM plants because their pollen can spread far beyond the boundaries of fields. The conclusions of the report, written by biotechnology and agriculture experts at the John Innes Centre in Norwich, have severe implications for Britain's burgeoning organic food sector. Organic food is defined as being "pesticide and additive free" in Britain and any kind of genetic engineering is banned by the Soil Association, which regulates organic farming. The report says organic farmers should set standards for acceptable levels of pollution by GM plants and that a system for checking for contamination should be put in place. "Neither source of contamination, either pollen or seed, can be entirely eliminated, so acceptable levels have to be decided on," says the report. But organic farmers say that the report supports their view that GM crops pose a serious threat to their livelihoods. They argue that consumer confidence in organic food would inevitably be undermined if even limited contamination was tolerated. The report, Organic Farming and Gene Transfer from Genetically Modified Crops, examined data from trials of GM crops to see whether the proposed "buffer zones" between fields of GM and organic crops would protect them from contamination. It asserts that the proposed barriers around ordinary crops could result in up to one per cent of organic plants becoming GM hybrids. The Soil Association has said that a six-mile barrier is the minimum guarantee that organic crops are not tainted. "We are determined to maintain the purity of organic crops in the UK and this is why we have set ourselves against GM," said Richard Young of the Soil Association. "The boundaries between GM crops are totally inadequate to protect organic farmers from GM crops. We are about sustainable agriculture working in harmony with nature - not altering it for a quick-fix solution." GM pollen can travel large distances on the wind, and is also carried by bees. GM seeds can also fall off trucks and farm machinery during transport or be left in the ground, leading to the growth of stray plants. Ministers have promised to protect Britain's growing organic farming sector from the threat from GM crops. But environmentalists say that organic farmers are being betrayed. "The Government seems to be about to renege on its promise to protect the organic farmer from genetic pollution," said Pete Riley of Friends of the Earth. "Non-organic farmers hoping to get into the expanding GM free market are also vulnerable to this type of contamination. with organic produce no level of GM contamination is acceptable." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:21:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13178 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09638 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09618 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.221] (term5-38.vta.west.net [205.254.241.166]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E321524BAC for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:29:09 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Canada: Monsanto Investigators Accused of Trespassing Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 688 "Basically you've got trespassing and you've got theft." Monsanto Investigators Accused of Trespassing By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, May 2, 1999; Page A26 Private investigators working for Monsanto, the St. Louis-based agricultural company, trespassed on a Canadian farmer's property and surreptitiously obtained samples of his harvested seeds from a local mill to gather evidence for a lawsuit against him, according to newly released court documents and interviews with company officials and others. The revelations have reignited a bitter controversy over Monsanto's ongoing pursuit of farmers who have allegedly saved and replanted the company's high-tech, genetically engineered seeds after harvest. Monsanto has a policy of precluding growers from saving seeds from those crops, demanding instead that they buy fresh seed every year. The farmer, Percy Schmeiser of Bruno, Saskatchewan, is one of hundreds of growers that Monsanto has tracked down in the United States and Canada during the past year for allegedly violating the company's ban on saving the patented seeds. But while the vast majority of farmers approached by Monsanto have paid fines and agreed to allow the company to inspect their fields for years to come, Schmeiser last year became something of a folk hero in Canada by fighting back against the multinational giant. He has gained the support of environmental groups and others around the world who oppose corporate restrictions on seed saving, which many subsistence farmers depend upon for survival. Monsanto claims that Schmeiser knowingly grew, harvested and replanted seeds of the company's genetically enhanced "Roundup Ready" canola. The variety is tolerant to Roundup, Monsanto's popular weedkiller, allowing farmers to spray the herbicide freely without worrying about harming the crop itself. Schmeiser has claimed that if any Roundup Ready canola was growing on his land, it was the result of cross pollination from neighbors' fields or from seeds blowing off other trucks after the previous year's harvest. Monsanto's case is based largely upon DNA tests conducted on plants from Schmeiser's fields in 1998. According to the company, those tests prove that fully 900 acres were planted with Roundup Ready canola -- far more than could be expected from windblown contamination. The company gathered the plant samples after obtaining a court order granting permission to go onto Schmeiser's land. But court documents filed April 22 by Schmeiser's lawyer, Terry Zakreski of Saskatoon, make public for the first time some of the questionable evidence-gathering tactics used by Monsanto before it was granted that court order. In testimony filed with the Federal Court of Canada -- part of Zakreski's motion to dismiss the case -- a Monsanto representative reports that private investigators hired by the company in 1997 trespassed on Schmeiser's property to snip plant samples for DNA testing. Moreover, according to the documents and interviews, a Monsanto representative approached an employee of the Humboldt Flour Mill, where Schmeiser brought his harvested seeds for cleaning, and asked for a sample of his harvest for DNA testing. The mill's manager at the time, Gary Pappenpoot, complied after checking with his boss -- a decision, he said Friday, he now regrets. "Basically you've got trespassing and you've got theft," Schmeiser said. "As my wife said, if I went down to Monsanto's headquarters in St. Louis and trespassed or took a piece of paper out of that building I'm sure I'd end up in jail." Philip Angell, Monsanto's director of corporate communications, disputed the allegations against the company. Despite the sworn testimony, he said, it is still not completely clear that the investigators in 1997 actually crossed Schmeiser's property line. Even if they did, he said, trespassing is neither a criminal nor a civil offense in Saskatchewan -- a legal interpretation Zakreski disputes. Angell also said -- and Pappenpoot confirmed -- that the Humboldt mill routinely saved samples of farmers' seeds in case questions arose later about contamination or mix-ups. Angell said Monsanto attorneys were now trying to determine whether those saved samples technically still belonged to Schmeiser or to the mill, which would then have the right to share them with anyone it chose to. In any case, Angell said, neither the disputed 1997 DNA test results nor the flour mill samples were used by the company to get its court order for the more extensive field testing it conducted in 1998. The company believes that those early tests would have been admissible in court, he said, but they did not meet the company's high ethical standards. Angell said Monsanto now has a written policy that precludes its hired investigators from trespassing to gather evidence. C Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:21:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13187 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08821 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:25:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08817 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:25:47 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.221] (term5-47.vta.west.net [205.254.241.175]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 78BA624BC0 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 5 (Lowest) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:25:41 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Germany: Pioneer Maize Seed Contaminated with Illegal [GE] Varieties Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 689 PRESS RELEASE Friends of the Earth 4th May 1999 PIONEER MAIZE SEED IS CONTAMINATED WITH AN ILLEGAL VARIETY Laboratory tests identify contamination by Novartis and Monsanto seeds Friends of the Earth (FoE) announced today that some of the Pioneer maize seed being sold in Germany, under the brand name "Benicia", which was turned over to police by BUND/FoE in Freiburg and analyzed by the official control laboratory(1), has been shown to be contaminated by a genetically modified (GM) variety which has not been authorized for cultivation in the European Union (EU). FoE revealed last week(2) that preliminary tests on three sacks of Pioneer Hi-Bred maize had shown that genetically modified organisms (GMOs) were present in small quantities, despite the fact that no varieties of Pioneer genetically modified maize have yet been approved by the EU. Results of further laboratory tests were made public by FoE today : - All three sacks tested negative for contamination by two authorized GM varieties: AgrEvo's "T25" GM maize (approved by the EU in spring 1998), or Novartis "Bt 176" GM maize (the first of its kind to be approved by the EU - amid much controversy - in 1996). However: - Two sacks tested positive for contamination by a Monsanto variety of GM maize, either "MON 810" (approved for cultivation by the EU in spring 1998) or "MON 809"(3) which is produced by Pioneer Hi-Bred under license from Monsanto and is not approved by the EU, either for cultivation or import; - One sack tested positive for contamination by Novartis "Bt 11" GM maize(4) , which is not approved for cultivation in the EU (authorization by the EU last year only covers import and processing). According to Friends of the Earth, the analyses show that genetic pollution of seeds is getting completely out of control. "No-one buying seed can be sure of what they're getting", said Gill Lacroix of FoE Europe's Biotechnology Programme. "Even the companies themselves don't seem to know what's in their sacks(5). How are farmers supposed to know if the seed they buy and plant is contaminated with an illegal variety? FoE is once again calling on the European Commission to investigate and urgently take action. If unauthorized varieties are being planted in European fields this spring, it makes a completely mockery of the whole EU legislative system." For more information, contact: Gill Lacroix, FoE Europe, T. 32-2-542.0182, F. 32-2-537.5596 Dan Leskien, FoE Europe, T. 49-40-431.897.66 Copies of the laboratory analyses are available on request. Footnotes: (1) Chemische Landesuntersuchungsanstalt Freiburg. (2) See FoEE press release of 28th April 1999. (3) MON 809 is insect-resistant (through expression of the Bt cryIA(b) gene), expresses some resistance to glyphosate-type herbicides (e.g. Monsanto's RoundUp), and carries a marker gene conferring resistance to the antibiotic kanomycin. (4) Novartis "Bt 11" is both insect-resistant (through expression of the Bt cryIA(b) gene) and herbicide-tolerant (to glufosinate ammonium type chemicals, marketed under brand names such as "Basta" and "Liberty"). (5) Distributors of Pioneer seed in some parts of France are offering to exchange sacks of suspect seed for uncontaminated EU-origin seed. Gill Lacroix Friends of the Earth Europe Biotechnology Programme "To say that this is not a highly political area seems to me extraordinary. To claim that GM products 'pose no risks' is absurd. We know that there are risks involved. And if this was not a political issue, Monsanto and others would not spend time and money cosying up to governments" (speech, 18.03.99 by David Bowe, MEP, rapporteur for the revision of Directive 90/220/EEC) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:22:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13222 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09296 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:27:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA09279 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.47] [199.175.106.31] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m10hIAb-000WS7C for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:26:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:27:11 +0000 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Cc: gharris@zoo.uvm.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 690 Gwyneth E. Harris, Interesting point you make about US customer food selection. Last summer we had guests from the States. We live on Vancouver Island, which they think of as very "rustic", actually it's almost suburban. They were uncomfortable eating potatoes unpeeled that we had just dug out of the "dirt". They didn't know how to peel and use fresh garlic out of the garden, they always buy it in a glass or tin. They passed up fresh mushrooms ("dirty") and bought them in tins. Although they enjoyed the flavours of our homegrown barbecued chicken, they couldn't imagine seeing them killing and dressed (wonder what they would think if they saw the slaughter factory where their clean supermarket chicken is killed?). They thought it quaintly Canadian that our supermarket produce is all in bulk and not wrapped in plastic so you can't touch it. (they felt the pre-wrapped stuff is cleaner) Imagine the gap between the American attitudes toward food and that of the Europeans. Just look at what is happening right now, the Americans, with we Canadians cheering them on, are trying to force the Europeans to inject their dairy cows with rBST, trying to force them to buy beef grown with the help of synthetic sex hormones and antibiotic laced grains, not to mention trying to induce them to grow and eat genetically modified foods. The Americans seem to like to keep an arm's length from their food sources, maybe they would be smart to stay a lot further than that. Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:22:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13226 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09644 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09629 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:14 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.221] (term5-38.vta.west.net [205.254.241.166]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D009F24BBF for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:29:12 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: UK: Politicians and FOE Sue Government Over Seed Fast-Tracking Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 691 SHOCK GM LEGAL MOVE BY ALL-PARTY MPs [UK] Politicians and FOE Sue Government Over Seed Fast-Tracking Wednesday 31 March 1999 From: nsuser@foe.co.uk in foe.press MPs from all three major parties are to join Friends of the Earth in suing the Government over an attempt to speed up the commercial growing of genetically modified (GM) food. The MPs involved in the case are: Norman Baker (Lib Dem, Lewes), John Randall (Con, Uxbridge) and Alan Simpson (Lab, Nottingham South). The case is crucial to the commercial future of GM crops in Britain, and will see an important clash over the powers of the legislature and the executive. Legal papers to begin the case will be presented to the HIgh Court on Wednesday. The "unprecedented" legal move by the MPs and FOE concerns a key decision last month by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (MAFF). MAFF has extended a non-statutory seed approval scheme to cover GM crops, short-circuiting the slower statutory seed approval system. This cuts about two years off the time needed for commercial growing of GM crops for human consumption to begin. Before seeds can be marketed, their variety must have been entered on the National List and the seeds themselves must be certified. (For GM seeds, a GMO marketing consent must also be obtained.) To obtain National Listing , a plant variety must be shown to be distinct, stable, uniform and to have value for cultivation and use. To be certified , a seed lot must meet various tests including purity and freedom from disease. The statutory certification process takes place after National Listing and typically takes about two to three years. But since 1975, MAFF has allowed a non-statutory certification process to take place before National Listing. This allows necessary tests to be carried out in advance and means that statutory certification can usually be completed immediately after National Listing [1]. In February 1999, MAFF decided to extend this non-statutory scheme to cover GM crops. But Friends of the Earth has been advised by Counsel that the whole non-statutory scheme is unlawful. At a meeting last week between FOE and MAFF officials, the Government side was unable to give a legal defence of its scheme. FOE and the MPs have therefore sought a judicial review. FOE and the MPs argue that MAFF has used the Royal Prerogative to create a new certification scheme, but that this decision has no legal force and could only properly be made through Parliament. Commenting on the case, FOE Legal Adviser Peter Roderick said: For MPs of every major Party to be involved in a judicial review of a key Government decision is unprecedented and heartening. The Government have behaved outrageously by helping the biotech industry speed up GM food-growing, behind Parliament's back and with no public support. MAFF has created a scheme with no legal basis to shave two years off the time it will take to grow GM food in Britain. Meanwhile the Government's spin-doctors have been claiming that they are listening to public opinion, and slowing the whole process down. The Government hoped to use the obscurity of seed law to sneak this decision past the public without anyone noticing. But this court case - and the vital decision of the MPs to back it - shows that they have been caught in the actM-^T. ENDS NOTES [1] Seeds are certified for marketing on a statutory 'generational ladder', needing certification at each rung of the ladder. For example, the generational ladder for seeds of oilseed rape is: Breeder's Seed (which produces) Pre-Basic Seed (which produces) Basic Seed (which produces) Certified Seed. Only Certified Seed is intended for human and animal consumption, and it is only when this stage is reached that sufficient quantities of seed for full commercialisation will have been built up. Progressing up the generational ladder takes perhaps two to three years. But the non-statutory scheme allows M-^SprovisionalM-^T certification for every stage up to the production of Certified Seed, before National Listing is completed. Statutory certification as Certified Seed can therefore be granted immediately after Listing and commercial growing can begin at once. NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:23:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13239 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09628 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09603 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 15:29:08 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.221] (term5-38.vta.west.net [205.254.241.166]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7EFB324BA7 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 12:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:29:07 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Ireland: Monsanto claims organic lobby stirs GM fears to protect market Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 692 The Irish Times Fears about GM foods are being unnecessarily increased by the organic farming and organic wholefood lobbies who feel their niche markets may be threatened, the Irish head of Monsanto, Dr Patrick O'Reilly, has said. Responding to criticism in Ireland recently about GM foods, Dr O'Reilly of Monsanto, a multinational chemical and biotechnology company, said the potential benefits from the GM revolution were "far too great simply to put aside based on fear of the new technologies". The benefits of GM foods, he said, included foods with additional vitamins and minerals; potatoes which absorbed less fat; soya which produced less cholesterol; fruit and vegetables which lasted longer. On the environmental side, benefits included a reduction of about 40 per cent in herbicide use - "which has to be good for everybody, farmer and consumer alike". GM crops would replace the need to use many chemicals and facilitate reduced application of others, said the firm's business manager for Ireland. He added: "While I'm confident of the safety of the technology, strict controls and monitoring must continue to be maintained. If this is done then the development of genetically engineered food will continue to take place with the full confidence of the consumer." An increase in information and awareness among the public of the facts and benefits which could be derived from GM foods would dispel many consumer concerns. Monsanto believed genetic engineering could be a major tool to ensure increased food quality and quantity in the 21st century. "We will see new strains of crops producing higher yields, adaptable to unkind soil conditions, resistant to yet-uncontrolled pests and diseases." In the meantime, Dr O'Reilly said, there was a need for updated legislation, "whatever adequate labelling the consumer and Oireachtas require" and "more factual programmes and less scare-mongering". If all this was done, he believed the understandable fears that people have would be assuaged and "the GM revolution can become one of the most significant and beneficial in the history of mankind". (Copyright 1999) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 16:56:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA14044 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00922 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:02:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00910 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29479 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990511160729.007e3a90@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:07:29 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Health insurance for farmers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 693 I'm digging around for some info on health insurance for farmers. Anyone know of some companies or organizations that offer it? Thanks, Mark Lattanzi ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 17:15:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14447 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11813 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:20:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11757 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:20:40 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term5-39.vta.west.net [205.254.241.167]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 98DF324A13 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 13:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:20:21 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Biotechnology in Latin America After Cartagena Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA11774 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 694 BIOTECHNOLOGY IN LATIN AMERICA AFTER CARTAGENA Information Systems for Biotechnology After Februarys UN-sponsored biosafety talks in Cartagena, Colombia failed to produce a consensus among the 134 countries present, it is worth taking the pulse of the region surrounding this Caribbean city. How do the different Latin American nations fit into the global biotechnology picture? First, it should be said that these talks did not neatly divide along north vs. south lines, despite how some journalists covered it. The so-called Miami Group (United States, Canada, Australia, and three Latin nations--Argentina, Uruguay, and Chile), named after the site of last years meeting, is the principal opponent to an eleventh-hour version of what would have been the first international protocol on transboundary movement of genetically engineered organisms. This illustrates the diversity within this region when it comes to biotechnology research, development, trade, and regulations. Argentina leads the latin nations with 4.3 million hectares dedicated to herbicide resistant soybean, second only to the U.S. with more than 20.5 million hectares (1). This sizable production has been possible primarily owing to Argentinas temperate climate, in marked contrast to its neighbor, Brazil. Argentinas development in this area creates one of the most marked splits within the region's 23 nations, as environmental groups and even some of the other Latin delegations at the talks vilified Argentina and its neighbors for being associated with the Miami Group. "Weve been accused of treason," said Ricardo Lagorio of Argentinas Foreign Affairs Ministry. "But we're acting in an open, transparent manner, as part of a group with shared interests. And we consider that the future of the world food is with biotechnology...while also seeing it important that environment not be affected." Although Brazil did not align itself with the Miami Group, the regions most populated country has contemplated the role that genetically engineered crops could play in its agriculture since the 1990s (2). In fact, Brazil adopted Latin America's first biosafety law in 1995. "In Cartagena, we didn't want to sign a protocol that would be less stringent than our national law, or that would force us to change our regime," said researcher Genaro de Paiva. He serves on Brazils Biosafety Commission, created by this same law. "We are a center of megabiodiversity," said Dr. De Paiva. "Brazil is where these issues are being played out. At the same time, we think that the use of these organisms can be regulated in a case-by-case, scientific manner." The scientist added that Brazil differed with the Miami Group over including commodities such as corn and soybeans in a proposed review process prior to the first shipment between countries. The group of exporting countries adamantly opposed this measure, and said the process should apply only to genetically engineered seeds destined to be planted in the ground. They alleged that seeds should be reviewed for possible risks to the environment and biological diversity, but that commodities posed no such risks. In a recent interview, Dr. De Paiva added, "We are now creating an operating list of products that could be exempted from review on the second movement." The scientist also emphasized that commercial production of transgenic crops in Brazil is still a few years off, and that "most products being evaluated at this point are still routine, like Bt maize and Roundup-ready soy." The latter is the most extensively planted in field trials, with around 2,500 hectares in all. Dr. De Paiva emphasized that wild relatives of soy are not found in Brazil, and so the issue of possible gene flow and threats to biodiversity are minimized with this crop. He also mentioned that varieties being tested are local, and not suitable for temperate climates (unlike Argentinas, which are). Like Brazil, Colombia is a global center of megabiodiversity. But as host country in Cartagena, it wound up in an unusual position, saddled with the difficult position of peacemaker. Delegate Cristian Samper said his country was pushing for a "wide scope," and that "without a protocol, weve temporarily lost the possibility of having a multilateral, international instrument of control, which we hoped would place some responsibility on exporting countries." At the same time, Colombia is presently testing its new national biosafety regulations and review committee. The regulations were adopted in December of last year; the review committee established to enforce them will be meeting for the first time next month to review applications for field trials, which can still be counted on two hands. According to Carlos Silva, of the Colombian Agricultural Institute (ICA)--the government entity charged with maintaining the Andean countrys biosafety regulations--these applications range from Bt potatoes and maize to blue carnations. There is also an application pending for a variety of indica rice developed at the International Center for Tropical Agriculture (CIAT). The rice is engineered for resistance to hoja blanca, a disease-causing virus found only in Latin America, and which is capable of destroying as much as 80% of commercial crops. Dr. Samper, director of the Humboldt Biological Resources Institute, added that "the Andean Group plans to adopt its own biosafety protocol this year, taking advantage of our similarities in biodiversity, culture, and foodstuffs." Silva echoed this concept, stating, "why wait for an international protocol--we could create an Andean pact and then make any necessary changes." The Andean group also includes Bolivia, Ecuador, Peru, and Venezuela, countries with little development in biotechnology as of yet. The regions other major player is Mexico. In fact, Mexico is the only Latin nation apart from Argentina that figures in a list of global leaders in commercial cultivation of transgenic crops, with about 100,000 hectares total (1). According to Dr. Amanda Galvez, a member of the Mexican delegation in Cartagena and part of a national commission on biodiversity (CONABIO), the correct term should be "pre-commercial," since the Bt cotton in question here is still being closely monitored for commercialization by the Ministry of Agriculture. Being the genetic and evolutionary homeland of maize, transgenic work with this crop has been of some concern in Mexico. Apart from the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Centers (CIMMYT) limited, enclosed experiments with apomixis, the Mexican government has now restricted transgenic maize release. (This despite the lack of alarm expressed by Damaso Luna, Environmental Director of Mexicos Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Cartagena delegation member. Shortly after Cartagena, he stated that it was "too early and alarmist to be saying that the apocalypsis is at hand for maize.") As for Mexicos position in Cartagena, Dr. Luna said, "We were interested in having a protocol with clear rules that could protect biodiversity without duly interrupting trade. Were concerned that the very genetic resources on which this technology and the future will depend are in balance here. But we have our own guidelines and will continue to develop them, with or without a protocol." In fact, as the ISB News Report goes to press, Mexico President Ernesto Zedillo is reviewing new recommendations made by a body of 15 scientists coordinated by CONABIO on biodiversity conservation and biotechnology research for meeting national needs. As Dr. Galvez put it, "in Mexico, were still importing this technology, and most of our concerns as a nation are still not being addressed." Of course, there is a flip side to the issue of possible gene flow to wild relatives and land races--as raised with maize in Mexico, potato in the Andean nations, and in nations with high biodiversity in general. At this point, neither the public nor the private sector offer the small farmer incentive for developing land races; wild relatives are left out of the picture altogether. Subsistence farmers will tend to look for varieties that help them feed their families, either by increasing yield or lowering costs (for inputs such as pesticides and fertilizers)--whether obtained from traditional breeding or genetic engineering. Small-scale farmers in Latin America are either going to be financially compensated for conserving the native germplasm that is at the heart of many of the concerns regarding genetically engineered crops, biosafety, and biodiversity, or more resources will have to be put into seed banks and germplasm research. This will be a key issue in the years to come, from the southern cone up to Mexico, as genes and agriculture converge to an even greater degree (3). Sources 1. James C. 1998. Global Review of Transgenic Crops: 1998. ISAA Briefs No. 8. Ithaca, N.Y: ISAA. 2. Sampaio M. 1999. Perspectives from National Agricultural Research Systems. In Biotechnology and Biosafety, eds. I Serageldin and W Collins. Washington, D.C.: The World Bank. 3. Pers. Comm., Willy De Greef, Head Regulatory & Government Affairs, Novartis. Timothy Pratt Journalist Cali, Colombia v.communicaciones@cgiar.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 17:57:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15295 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA05844 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:59:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from MailHost.StVincent.Edu (IS.StVincent.Edu [199.234.124.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05754 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from admin.stvincent.edu (dnelson@stvincent.edu) by MailHost.StVincent.Edu (8.9.1a/SATSYS) with ESMTP id QAA26501 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stvincent.edu (Host-199-234-126-58.StVincent.Edu [199.234.126.58]) by admin.stvincent.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id RAA25611 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373899A6.E650DCF7@stvincent.edu> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:57:10 -0400 From: Dean Nelson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Ireland: Monsanto claims organic lobby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 695 The Irish Times says... >Monsanto believed genetic engineering could be a major tool to ensure >increased food quality and quantity in the 21st century. and a way to corner the food market. >"We will see new strains of crops producing higher yields, adaptable to >unkind soil conditions, resistant to yet-uncontrolled pests and diseases." > >In the meantime, Dr O'Reilly said, there was a need for updated >legislation, "whatever adequate labelling the consumer and Oireachtas >require" and "more factual programmes and less scare-mongering". > >If all this was done, he believed the understandable fears that people have >would be assuaged and "the GM revolution can become one of the most >significant and beneficial in the history of mankind". Significant yes, but beneficial, not likely, because the primary motive is not to benefit mankind but to enrich Monsanto shareholders. What they fail to mention in the litany of traits is the ability to NOT germinate without the application of proprietary chemicals. When those genes also are passed to non-GM strains, what will happen? Dean Nelson, Ph.D. Laurel Vista Farm Ligonier Pennsylvania -- ************************************************** Dean Nelson Coordinator of Institutional Research Saint Vincent College 300 Fraser Purchase Road Latrobe, PA 15650-2690 email: dnelson@stvincent.edu Phone: (724) 539-9761 ext. 2425 Fax: (724) 537-4587 ************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 18:01:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15405 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA19295 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:17:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA19181 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu (root@franc.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA18056 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Liebhardt (ars97.ucdavis.edu [169.237.82.97]) by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.11) with SMTP id OAA16247 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 14:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905112116.OAA16247@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: fzliebha@mailbox.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:18:05 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Bill Liebhardt Subject: infromation and extension's role Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 696 As a native of Wisconsin I found the posts of Julie and Laura raising questions that are at the core of what it is to be in the land grant system and what our role is in developing information and getting it out. I have often raised questions about where we are going with GMO's and that whole area. I have been also tried to be open minded to the degree possible about this issue but as some one with strong views about what sustainability is I have very serious doubts and questions about the present course of where that technology is headed. Many people on the UCD campus are strong supporters of GMO's thinking that this is the thing that will move us to next plane with respect to yield and helping with environmental issues. There are many more of them than those who would share my opinion. So each side comes to the table with very strongly held views and the idea of the myth of science being neutral to me is a scientific abstraction put forward by many in the scientific community that allows them to keep a hands off above the battle that is going on. It also results in supporting the status quo. This has been going on for a long time and I can see the result very clearly. Loss of farms, consolidation of agribusiness, very poor income for farmers, environmental problems, decimated rural communities and all the litany of problems associated with conventional agriculture. We are often given the figure of one farmer growing enough to feed 80 to 90 people or whatever the number is yet many farmers today cannot make it on their own farms economically with out income from off the farm. We all know it and we know that as now practiced it is not sustainable in the long term. That is what practicing value free neutral science has achieved. All the problems of today cannot be laid at the door step of science but value free science has helped moved the agenda to where we are today so in my opinion it is part of the problem. Science with out values will not help-our science should work or compliment our values. If someone had done a survey 40 years ago and asked people in the land grant system if they hoped there work would result in what we have today I suspect many at that time would have rejected much of what we now have. So it seems to me that we have ended up like to old saying of Yogi Berra who said "If you do not know where you are headed you are going to end up at some other place. We are at this some other place and I think it is because we have let science and policy go kind of willy-nilly without thinking about where we want to end up. I have been at this games professionally since the 60's and I have worked at both universities and for industry. In the process of trying to operate with respect to pushing or selling products or ideas I have always thought about whether I could sit across the kitchen table from my parents and try to convince them that this product or idea would be good for them or the community that they lived in. In this personal way of operating I have no problem pushing the ideas of sustainability or raising very serious questions about many of the approaches that are now being pushed by the bio tech people. I think it is necessary to look at the response we provide to farmers in a systems contest. I think the bottom line information they need is that the risk to them economically could be very serious if they cannot sell their grain and that checking the elevator during the season after the seed is in the ground is fruitless. It is like shutting the door after the horse is out. I also think we have to have the courage to say it the way we see it in as strong a language with as much good information and clear thinking as is possible. If we do not we will continue down the road to some other place- a place we would not have planned to go. So in the end for me at least it is more about values than science. Science can be a tool to help us go where we want to go or it can lead us to some other place. Bill Liebhardt To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 18:19:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15823 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA04094 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:41:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03919 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.130]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29654 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:38:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990511163936.007161a8@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:39:36 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Small risks? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA03962 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 697 Dale Wilson wrote: (snip) >Almost everyone in >the public research community, the industry, the regulatory community, the >political center (at least in the US) believes the risks are very small. >Sure, studies on safety should continue but the crisis atmosphere is >contrived. > It is incredible to me that you would be willing to say this in public, Dale. I fear it will come back to haunt you. It is clear, then, that "almost everybody in the public research community, the industry, the regulatory community, the political center (??)" has already been proved wrong (if they do in fact believe that "the risks are very small" rather than believing that the "risks are unknown", which is different). It has already been demonstrated that the entire "resistance control strategy" of Bt corn (corn GE'd to produce Bt toxin indiscriminately in corn plant tissues) is likely to be scientifically indefensible (see current issue of Science). Other research indicates clear negative effects of Bt accumulation in soils on soil microbiology. (As you know, there is already an important law suit about this issue). This alone repesents a clear and present environmental risk of a GMO technology and shows the underlying irresponsiblity of the commercial interests behind the massive deployment of these plants in the environment. Bt crops should be banned. I think they will be sooner than you think. This case, along should put complascent scientists on alert. I have never seen such a gap between what most scientists (supposedly) think about an issue and the clear trend of public opinion world wide, as I see currently on this issue. Scientists, beware. New suprises like Europe are in store. If we are found to act irresponsibly in this case, the damage to science could be felt for decades. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 18:24:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16137 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA03859 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:41:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03690 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.130]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29533 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 16:37:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990511161715.00714a18@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:17:15 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Labelling GMO (was UK, GMO etc.) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA03750 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 698 Ann Clark wrote: (snip) >So, in the absence of meaningful evidence on risk (and recall, >please, that absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence - >it just means the research hasn't been done), labelling that >something is GMO will be a pointless exercise for the vast majority >of citizens. What is needed is a concerted effort to assess the >degree to which risks actually exist, and to quantify and report >them, before expecting producers, consumers, or policymakers to make >an "informed" decision. Ann > > Thank you for your excellent post on this subject. Nonetheless, I think you *don't* mean to say that labelling is not important. Accurate labelling of GMO products will be an important support for the kind of research you indicate as lacking. Labelling is very important to help put together the "meaningful evidence of risk) that you mention. regards, Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 20:25:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18667 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA26190 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:42:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA26091 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id SAA16975; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:41:59 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma016928; Tue, 11 May 99 18:41:30 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:41:30 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD17@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Small risks? Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:41:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 699 Ronald and Ann, >> Almost everyone in the public research community, the >> industry... believes the risks are very small. Ronald wrote: > It is incredible to me that you would be willing to say this > in public, Dale. I fear it will come back to haunt you. Well, maybe so. But everybody I know (except on a list-server or two) thinks GMO's are okay. My understanding of the science involved leads me to that conclusion too. I think the biggest risk is that the usefulness of pesticides like Bt toxin and Roundup will be lost due to development of resistance in pest populations. The kind of geno-apocalypse that seems to be expected on this list looks exceedingly unlikely to me. I honestly expect to be kidnapped by space aliens before being hurt by a GMO. > I have never seen such a gap between what most scientists > (supposedly) think about an issue and the clear trend of > public opinion world wide, as I see currently on this issue. Oh yeah, I agree! (maybe not in the US) It's phenomenal, it's political, it has something to do with distrust of science and technology in general, and with vitalism. I should probably shut up about this, but I'm just telling you what I think is true. Ann wrote: > Dale: just curious. How is that one is able to determine that > the risk is so small as to be unworthy of effort at detection, > if one has not done the studies to test/demonstrate this in the > first place? I did the following lit search a few weeks ago in Agricola and Biosis to get info for a high school student working on a project: No. Records Request 1 21465 transgenic 2 6850 transgenic in de 3 53 trans-species 4 5 trans-species in de 5 171870 risk 6 32430 risk in de 7 1950 outcrossing 8 716 outcrossing in de 9 96910 open 10 17379 pollinat* 11 307 open pollinat* in de 12 2092 introgression 13 860 introgression in de 14 19168 interspecific 15 7124 interspecific in de * 16 173 #2 and (#4 or #6 or #8 or #11 or #13 or #15) 118 of these appeared relevent to the issue of risks and/or gene transfer from GMO plants. I haven't scrutinized these, but there was no obvious smoking gun. What kind of study, and what results would it take to falsify your beliefs about transgenic risks? I think there are hundreds of scientists working on this. Demonstrating some awful hidden truth about GMO's would a great way to make your career! The main reason I am not worried about our clumsy, primitive transgenic adventures, is that the really awful sinister stuff is already out there! I know it is hard to imagine in our sanitized, public-health-saturated culture, but lurking just beyond the door are all manner of flesh-eating, child-ulcerating, immune-deceiving, spirochete-insidious, viral-cell-subverting, hemorragic natural stuff that evolved to kill and eat you and me by quite natural horizontal-transfer and spectacularly rare quasi-sexual events over hundreds of millions of years. We couldn't create tragedies like these if we tried. Again, I am not saying that GMO's are risk-free. I am saying 1. This has been studied (maybe not enough) 2. This is not a crisis 3. It is consistent with the intentional shaping of nature, characteristic of modernity 4. The biological risk is not as important as the social implications Dale Wilson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 21:45:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA20140 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA20331 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:03:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (stat49.webserf.net [204.77.122.49] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA20223 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905120103.VAA20223@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.154] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A33D28F069C; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:02:53 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:02:26 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: infromation and extension's role Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 700 On Tue, 11 May 1999 16:18:05 -0700, Bill Liebhardt wrote: >That is what practicing value free neutral science has achieved. All the >problems of today cannot be laid at the door step of science but value free >science has helped moved the agenda to where we are today so in my opinion >it is part of the problem. Science with out values will not help-our >science should work or compliment our values. In midst of these challenging dilemmas it is, I believe, helpful to reflect on the wisdom of our elders. My father (a chemist) taught me something at the beginning of my scientific career (over 30 years ago) that he reconfirmed for me a only a few months ago. "Science --- true science --- is organised skepticism. Technology is organised boosterism. We get in trouble when we confuse the two." Many people, trained as scientists, are functioning as technologists, boosting rather than questioning. That was the case with nuclear energy, and it *is* the case with GMOs. We should, as Vaclav Havel so ably observed a decade ago, "Restore the real meaning of words, to live in truth." We are so slow to learn. Half a century ago, when the development of pesticides was at a stage roughly analogous to that of GMOs today, several true scientists were admirably skeptical. Chief among them was A D Pickett, in charge of the Dominion Entomological Laboratory (Canada). Fifty years ago he wrote several things that should be held in high regard today, given the unfolding of history. "The practice of spraying may defeat its own purpose since it is common that over a period of time, as thoroughness increases, the value of each application becomes proportionately less. It is difficult to say what complications may eventually develop ... [but] the methods used in testing the effects of various agricultural chemicals on soils leave much to be desired." "As pointed out previously, these effects may exhibit themselves very slowly and several years may elapse before the final results become known. ... the present methods used by investigators are entirely too empirical and should be regarded with acute skepticism. This applies not only to the work of the scientific staffs of industrial organizations, but to that of government officers as well." "There are a number of reasons, most of them economic, why this policy has been allowed to develop as it has. There are many incentives and pressues ... but there is little to encourage long-term ecological studies of the changes in the complex biological that may be brought about by the application of chemicals. The results are so slow in coming to light that the problem is side-tracked because no organization is behind it. ... The farmer should be interested in this line of approach, but for the most part he too is subjected to economic pressures to get immediate results, and the problems are too abstruse for him to comprehend fully." [all from Pickett, A.D. (1949) A Critique on Insect Chemical Control Methods, The Canadian Entomologist, Vol 81, No 3, p 7] Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the 1930s. And let's remember in all this that Monsanto's biotech division is flogging its brainchild to no small degree on the basis that it will avoid and eliminate all the chemical problems that not so many years ago its chemical division was saying were the simply the malicious fabrication of unwashed, un-American rabble. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on *me*. The skeptics, as my dad pointed out, are the only true scientists out there. Everyone else must be presumed a booster/technologist until proven otherwise. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 22:54:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21460 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA09698 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:17:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA09693 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA28241 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 11 May 99 22:19:33 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 11 May 99 22:19:04 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:19:04 EST Subject: RE: Small risks? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <7A75244FEA@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 701 Dale: perhaps you might want to consider actually reading some of the 118 articles you think might relate. I have probably cited more than that in the last few talks I've given on the subject - and many point to the seriousness of the issues. Now, is it conceivable that you are telling us that 118 references is a sufficient database to assess the potential of all kinds of GMO risk? I could probably, with a little time, think up 118 distinct GMO risks, and in the best scientific method, would not be willing to come to a meaningful conclusion on such a skimpy database. There are a few excellent centers of investigation on GMO risk, but they are laboring under much shorter rations than their well provisioned pro-GMO colleagues. I applaud their willingness to continue their much-needed work in a funding environment that is so plainly hostile and one-sided. You and your colleagues in industry are, at some point, going to have to stop pretending, obfustacating, obscuring, and denying the issues. I don't think there is much point in continuing to prolong this dialogue. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 11 22:56:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21515 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA12779 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:22:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA12710 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:22:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com (7999) by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7GBUa03215 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:20:19 EDT Subject: Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 702 Hello Steve, In reference to your statment: "On tolerances for contamination: I don't believe that there are any. If it shows up, it shows up, and percentages ( like the organic tolerances for synthetic contamination) have yet to be publicized, if they have been determined. Perhaps Dr. Fagin at Genetic ID has a handle on that." John Fagin imformed me that the EU standard of tolerance is 2% GE modified subtance in a sample. John's tolerance, as I remember, in testing is 1/2% It is clear we are dealing with tolerance, never 0% tolerance. Best, Eric To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 00:21:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22785 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA09816 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:46:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09666 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA24409 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool159-pm2.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.115.159]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29876; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3738B39B.2AACB573@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:47:55 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nic Lampkin CC: sanet Subject: Re: Misuse of statistics - UK developments References: <007f01be9afd$02521610$4e4c7c90@nhl.wir.aber.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 703 Hi, Dr. Lampkin, I am pleased but surprised to see you here. Have you finished that re-do of your book yet? ============================ Nic Lampkin wrote: > In a recent message on SANet, I read that: > > >the following statement appeared in an e-newsletter sent out by a food > vendor in England: > > >Nationally sales of organic food are growing at a rate such that, if it > were to >continue at the same rate, 80% of all the food we eat will be > organic by the year 2010. > > Before anyone gets too carried away, the figure derives from a paper I > presented at the recent UK organic farming conference at Cirencester, in > which I suggested that if growth rates of 35% per year or more could be > achieved, then this might be the case, but this was highly unlikely because > the average long run trend in Europe was for 25% annual growth. I concluded > that the UK was much more likely to achieve 10% by 2010, while the European > average could reach more than that. > (Organic farming currently accounts for 2% of agricultural land in western > Europe (3 million ha) and 1% in the United Kingdom (200,000 ha)). > > Nic Lampkin > > Welsh Institute of Rural Studies > University of Wales, Aberystwyth > GB-Ceredigion SY23 3AL > > Tel: +44 (0)1970 622248/624471 > Fax: +44 (0)1970 611264/622238 > http://www.aber.ac.uk/~wirwww/organic > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 00:23:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22802 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA10327 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:46:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA10169 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool159-pm2.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.115.159]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00615; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3738C40C.9445F53D@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:58:05 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: UK, GMO etc. References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD14@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 704 On whose side are you?? ================== Wilson, Dale wrote: > Ann, > > > Dale: labelling is not the issue. Informed decision making is what > > is missing. > > When I say "Labelling" as an issue I mean to include consumer > decision-making as part of the issue. > > > So, in the absence of meaningful evidence on risk (and recall, > > please, that absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence - > > it just means the research hasn't been done), labelling that > > something is GMO will be a pointless exercise for the vast majority > > of citizens. > > The GMO issue is another example of miniscule, immeasurably small risk (as > far as we can tell) being trotted out as an inflammatory red herring to push > a very comprehensive political (anthropocentric) agenda. I think that > worrying about GMO's truly is a "pointless exercise." Almost everyone in > the public research community, the industry, the regulatory community, the > political center (at least in the US) believes the risks are very small. > Sure, studies on safety should continue but the crisis atmosphere is > contrived. > > Sanet energy would be better spent on figuring out how to ameliorate the > devastating effects six billion people are having on wild nature, than on > bureaucratic boutique food regulation for rich people who have nothing > better to worry about. > > Dale > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 00:23:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22806 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA10278 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:46:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA10184 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool159-pm2.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.115.159]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00631; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3738C40C.9445F53D@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:58:05 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: UK, GMO etc. References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD14@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 705 On whose side are you?? ================== Wilson, Dale wrote: > Ann, > > > Dale: labelling is not the issue. Informed decision making is what > > is missing. > > When I say "Labelling" as an issue I mean to include consumer > decision-making as part of the issue. > > > So, in the absence of meaningful evidence on risk (and recall, > > please, that absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence - > > it just means the research hasn't been done), labelling that > > something is GMO will be a pointless exercise for the vast majority > > of citizens. > > The GMO issue is another example of miniscule, immeasurably small risk (as > far as we can tell) being trotted out as an inflammatory red herring to push > a very comprehensive political (anthropocentric) agenda. I think that > worrying about GMO's truly is a "pointless exercise." Almost everyone in > the public research community, the industry, the regulatory community, the > political center (at least in the US) believes the risks are very small. > Sure, studies on safety should continue but the crisis atmosphere is > contrived. > > Sanet energy would be better spent on figuring out how to ameliorate the > devastating effects six billion people are having on wild nature, than on > bureaucratic boutique food regulation for rich people who have nothing > better to worry about. > > Dale > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 00:23:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22810 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 00:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA08560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:43:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08539 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 23:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.78]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:47:29 -0500 Message-ID: <3738F867.E97471D1@cillnet.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:41:27 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: Cover Crop Incorporation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 706 We started using rye as a cover in 92. Back then we killed it with Round Up and when it was dead we pulled an Aer-Way over it. Then we No-till planted or drilled . We are currently going through transition to organics. A Rota-vator dealer introduced us to organics by saying if we would use his tiller instead of roundup we could qualify for organic premiums and we would be away from chemicals, which I thought was a very good deal.The first spring the tiller worked great,so we bought one. Then the trouble started. The first summer it worked so-so. The next spring was wet and we worked some fields several times before we could get them planted(very time consuming). The second summer we ruined 2 gear boxes and rebuilt it 3 times(very very time consuming). Winter of 98-99 I bought a old IH 470 disk just to have on hand. We also traded up to a heavier duty tiller. Spring 99- it was getting late and I gave up adjusting tiller and hooked on to disk. It didn't work too bad and was a lot faster. I am looking for a implement that will incorporate residue (Rye (sometimes waist high), hairy vetch, red clover, etc.) into the top 4 inches of soil (mostly silt loams) without causing a lot of grief . We farm 500 acres in central Illinois. Half of the farm is on a 3 year rotation the other half is 4 year . Our big tractor is currently 130 HP 4440 JD. Floyd To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 05:58:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA25860 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 05:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA01572 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 04:58:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA01509 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 04:57:57 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term6-18.vta.west.net [205.254.241.210]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 555E924B09 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 01:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:57:55 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: On tolerances for contamination (was corn pollen; was Beginning of end...) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 707 For the record, whatever the formal standard for tolerance of GE contamination is or becomes, I myself consider any GE material in my home or diet to be *genetic trespass*, and if ever I find a way to make that stick legally, I will do so. Proprietary rights cut both ways and carry concomitant responsibilities: a two edged legal sword. I have never been asked, nor have I ever agreed to grow or consume this stuff. For (many, varied, serious, well informed, carefully considered) reasons of my own, I choose not to, and as a sovereign citizen that is my prerogative. Nothing requires me to justify that choice, on scientific or any other grounds, to anyone; the choice is quite simply my own to make, WTO and Monsanto be damned. Any interference in my right to make that choice myself is a violation. That the biotech industry arrogates to itself the decision to impose this on us all, forever, is to me at least as much a question of *sound civics* as it is of so-called sound science. In dismissing such concerns so lightly, I often feel Dale goes a long way toward making the case for me that it is unwise to leave these determinations to anyone else to make for us, particularely those who claim to know better than we do. I post to this list not with any real hope of swaying Dale or those who share his perspective, but rather to offer information for the consideration of others who imagine that there may still be something, quite possibly something important, for us to learn from this world before we find we've altered it beyond recognition, beyond recovery. So much for tolerances. Beth von Gunten Ventura County, California We live one Life. ------------------------------------------------------- >Hello Steve, > >In reference to your statment: "On tolerances for contamination: I don't >believe that there are any. If it >shows up, it shows up, and percentages ( like the organic tolerances for >synthetic contamination) have yet to be publicized, if they have been >determined. Perhaps Dr. Fagin at Genetic ID has a handle on that." > >John Fagin imformed me that the EU standard of tolerance is 2% GE modified >subtance in a sample. John's tolerance, as I remember, in testing is 1/2% >It is clear we are dealing with tolerance, never 0% tolerance. > >Best, Eric To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 09:09:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA28113 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA12599 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:18:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f17.hotmail.com [207.82.250.28]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA12558 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 91274 invoked by uid 0); 12 May 1999 12:17:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19990512121756.91273.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.112 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 May 1999 05:17:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.112] From: "J. S." To: maroc@islandnet.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 05:17:56 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 708 I realize that we Americans have our many bad qualities, but of course we have very many good ones; but after several recent dicsussions with Canadians, including this last email, concerend about the environment and sustainable agriculture, I really would like to know why they/you feel the need to trash us as so far removed from the earth that we can't remember our roots and generally as boobs with no sensitivity about our own planet or understanding of its natural cycles. What purpose does it serve to squabble amongst ourselves other than discourage the hell out people such as myself who are striving to develop international sustainable efforts? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 10:06:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29719 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA13602 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:05:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA13531 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA16500; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37397D54.8B6FD994@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:08:36 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fjohnson@cillnet.com CC: sanet-mg Subject: Re: Cover Crop Incorporation References: <3738F867.E97471D1@cillnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 709 Do you flail mow (or bush hog) first? We used a rye-hairy vetch mix, flail mowed, and used a Ferguson Tilovator with a 5' bed shaper. If it's mowed, a disk should work just fine (of course I'm a biologist, not a farmer). Do you use another amendment for additional nitrogen? We found that the rye-vetch mixture tended to tie up nitrogen (at least the tomato yields from those plots were much reduced compared to the swine manure and composted cotton gin trash). Floyd Johnson wrote: > We started using rye as a cover in 92. Back then we killed it with Round > Up and when it was dead we pulled an Aer-Way over it. Then we No-till > planted or drilled . We are currently going through transition to > organics. A Rota-vator dealer introduced us to organics by saying if we > would use his tiller instead of roundup we could qualify for organic > premiums and we would be away from chemicals, which I thought was a very > good deal.The first spring the tiller worked great,so we bought one. > Then the trouble started. The first summer it worked so-so. The next > spring was wet and we worked some fields several times before we could > get them planted(very time consuming). The second summer we ruined 2 > gear boxes and rebuilt it 3 times(very very time consuming). Winter of > 98-99 I bought a old IH 470 disk just to have on hand. We also traded up > to a heavier duty tiller. Spring 99- it was getting late and I gave up > adjusting tiller and hooked on to disk. It didn't work too bad and was a > lot faster. > I am looking for a implement that will incorporate residue (Rye > (sometimes waist high), hairy vetch, red clover, etc.) into the top 4 > inches of soil (mostly silt loams) without causing a lot of grief . We > farm 500 acres in central Illinois. Half of the farm is on a 3 year > rotation the other half is 4 year . Our big tractor is currently 130 HP > 4440 JD. > > Floyd > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 11:31:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02150 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA03537 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:25:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (stat49.webserf.net [204.77.122.49] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA03527 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905121425.KAA03527@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.136] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AF10A3024C; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:24:16 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:23:54 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Cover Crop Incorporation Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 710 On Tue, 11 May 1999 22:41:27 -0500, Floyd Johnson wrote: > I am looking for an implement that will incorporate residue (Rye >(sometimes waist high), hairy vetch, red clover, etc.) into the top 4 >inches of soil (mostly silt loams) without causing a lot of grief . A large part of your problem has been that you're trying to incorporate rye that is *much* too mature. Ideally you should nail it at about 8 inches high. Wet springs will certainly mess up that approach. The problem with rye taller than about 10 inches isn't the top, but rather the root balls. They get in the way of planters and can be quite aggravating if impaled on the rotary hoe. In organic soybean production the rotary hoe is one of your best friends. By the time rye is waist high it is fairly slow to digest in the soil, causing another set of problems. Depending on circumstances and time available you could harvest the tops for bedding/low-grade hay, you could mow/chop them (big flail mower) and then disc the whole mess in. Or no-till into the stubble might be an option depending on how far south in the state you are --- in which case shift your beans to a *higher* group number. That's a bit counter-intuitive but the later you plant the shorter days you'll have at key phases in the crop's life, and higher group beans do better with shorter days. The main thing with rye is to get it early in the spring if you possibly can. It will avoid a lot of the dancing around described in the previous paragraph. Organic farming in a wet season is not a lot of fun --- and you'll look way worse than the neighbors. On the other hand, *conventional* farming is more of a challenge in a drought, and your place with look a bunch better than theirs. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 11:34:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02198 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16832 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:49:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eugate.ibmmail.com ([194.196.143.93]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16783 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by eugate.ibmmail.com with SMTP id OAA46866 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:37:47 GMT Received: by LMS01.UNIMAIL.IBM.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 3.1) with snapi via GBLNRG02 id 0039000009765047; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:37:01 +0000 From: "Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE)" To: Subject: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK Message-ID: <0039000009765047000002L072*@MHS> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:37:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA16810 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 711 Dear All, I am currently conducting research into the CSA experience in the US, with a view to looking at whether the principle would translate to the UK farming system. Through conducting various word searches on the internet I have managed to obtain some very interesting background information on the CSA experience in US, this included articles by Robyn Van En, UMass and MISA. I am also in the process of obtaining a report entitled "Facing a Watershed: Managing Profitable and Sustainable Landscapes in the 21st Century" from the University of Nebraska, and also a report which showcases ten years of SARE entitled "Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress" from Andy Clark Ph.D, at the National Agricultural Library, Beltsville, MD. Do you know of any other reports/publications that provide an overview of the CSA experience in the US so far?. Highlights, problems, legalities etc. (I already hold details of UMass Extension reading list, shown on the website). If applicable I would also be grateful if you could point me in the direction of any actual or planned research that considers the translation of the CSA approach to the UK farming system. I have searched the internet for UK examples but as yet have had no luck. Thank you very much for your assistance. Kind Regards Paul PAUL COOK Farming & Forestry Branch Countryside Agency John Dower House Crescent Place Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL50 3RA England UK To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 11:34:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02211 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21116 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:54:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21025 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:53:59 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term5-18.vta.west.net [205.254.241.146]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 17B6724B5C for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 07:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:53:40 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA21044 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 712 Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods MADRID, Spain, May 11, 1999 (ENS) - Spain's largest supermarket chain, Pryca, announced Monday that it is phasing out the use of genetically modified (GM) ingredients in own-brand food products sold in its 58 stores. Genetically modified foodstuffs include some varieties of soy beans, canola oil, corn, cottonseed oil, potatoes, squash and tomatoes. Describing the decision as "a response to public fears," a Pryca spokesperson said that the company had instructed suppliers to stop using GM ingredients in products which carry the company trademark by the end of this year. Carrefour, the supermarket giant which owns the largest shareholding in Pryca, has already introduced a similar measure in its French stores. Pryca's decision was described by the Spanish Consumers' Union as "a marketing exercise" and "ineffective because GM ingredients are so widespread and difficult to identify." Laurate canola is a proprietary product marketed by Calgene Oils under the brand name LAURICAL. Approved in the U.S. and Canada, it is used in confectionery coatings, coffee whiteners, icings and whipped toppings as well as in soaps. However, Diego Herranz of the environmental group Ecologists in Action welcomed the move and said his organisation expected the decision to cause "a chain reaction against GM ingredients." The group has been pressing for a similar undertaking from other major Spanish food retailers. Marks and Spencer Espaa and Nestl Espaa said that their companies' policy was neither to sell nor produce foods containing genetically-modified ingredients. Spain is the biggest importer of GM soya and the European Union's only significant producer of GM maize. Some 19,000 hectares of GM maize (corn) were planted last year, according to government figures. The upper house of the Spanish parliament today begins debating a new law on the production and sale of foods which will include the issue of genetically modified ingredients. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 12:05:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02952 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26800 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:06:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26746 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:06:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA06173 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phcglen (12.2.59.42) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Wed, 12 May 99 10:07:15 CDT Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990512145759.006bda54@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:57:59 -0600 To: "Bluestem Associates" From: Jane Sooby Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 713 Dear Bart, Your observations are very timely and to the point. Dale used the industry arguments that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain medications; grains will be designed to have particular nutritional compositions; etc. Does this approach strike anyone else as back-asswards? Is not the bounty of nature enough to suit our needs? Have we not co-evolved with the plants and animals that share this planet with us? Even the Avery-esque arguments about increasing yields with intensive chemical production techniques fail when you consider that hunger is such a political phenomenon, a result of mis-distribution rather than low production. The blinders that result in tunnel vision are firmly in place in many sectors of society, and agriculture is certainly no exception. Yes, friends, we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow ourselves to see them. How about using an ecological approach, working with the cycles of nature, the complex dynamics of soil, and the miraculous natural capabilities of plants to attempt to improve the nutritional value of our food and feed by utilizing what is already there? Sir Albert Howard was advocating such a holistic approach 50 years ago or more. The simple answer is that the profit potential from this approach is very limited as it relies not on chemical or biotechnological inputs but on intensive system management, therefore industry would not be very interested in it. But what is really important: profit or authentically feeding and nourishing the world? Learning how apathetic the majority of American consumers are compared to their European counterparts is discouraging. Without external pressure from consumers, industry is free to set the terms of discussion and sell the illusion that maximizing control of natural processes is equivalent to maximizing human benefit. I dispute this equation. >We are so slow to learn. >Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the >degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years >after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA >alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which >misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to >disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the >1930s. You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. Jane Sooby University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer High Plains Ag Lab 3257 Rd. 109 Sidney, NE 69162 308-254-3918 308-254-2402 (FAX) 308-254-0725 (HOME) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 12:05:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02966 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12339 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:37:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12314 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haltemp.unl.edu (207.32.34.27) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Wed, 12 May 99 09:37:32 CDT Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:33:48 -0500 Message-ID: <01BE9C5A.89E18300.AMCGUIRE1@unl.edu> From: Andrew McGuire Reply-To: "AMCGUIRE1@unl.edu" To: "Sanet (E-mail)" Subject: RE: information and extension's role Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:31:51 -0500 Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 714 Thank you Bill for your post. I agree with it and support your position. As a relative newcomer to extension, I have learned quickly that any questions about where the technology will lead us is soon countered with "that is your opinion" or "stick to science-based information." The idea that we can present information with no values attached, the neutral science argument, seems to be prevalent in extension. I believe that it is impossible to not bring in values to our work. If we try to eliminate values, then they will sneak into the vacuum and we have values by default, which are the worst kind, because we do not even recognize them. Here in Nebraska, there is lots of talk about listening to the people and designing an extension program to serve their needs. Well, it seems to me that the land grant universities have been doing that for many years and rural areas, at least the rural area I live in, has been declining in turn. Maybe it is because extension, even more so than the population they serve, resists the change needed to make real progress in those areas that come up over and over in their need assessments, such as ag profitability, rural quality of life, and natural resource conservation. Extension and the university see themselves as mainstream and mainstreet, and so find it hard to take any action that will direct them away from the current food system, Walmart, and McDonalds. Again, I concur with what Bill has said, we must decide where we want to go, then decide which tools have the most potential to take us there, and use them. Respectfully, Andy McGuire, Extension Educator AMCGUIRE1@UNL.EDU P.O. Box 736 office 402-254-2280 Hartington NE 68739 fax 402-254-6891 University of Nebraska Cooperative Extension On Tuesday, May 11, 1999 6:18 PM, Bill Liebhardt [SMTP:wcliebhardt@ucdavis.edu] wrote: > > As a native of Wisconsin I found the posts of Julie and Laura raising > questions that are at the core of what it is to be in the land grant system > and what our role is in developing information and getting it out. I have > often raised questions about where we are going with GMO's and that whole > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 12:26:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03380 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16773 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:40:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16727 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.88] (st-ppp28.hevanet.com [198.5.254.88]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23886; Wed, 12 May 1999 08:40:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905121540.IAA23886@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:42:08 -0700 Subject: FW: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA16735 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 715 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste Date: Wed, May 12, 1999, 6:58 AM STORY LEAD: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 12, 1999 Doris Stanley Lowe, (301) 893-6727, dstanley@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Changing the levels of a key hormone in tomatoes could lead to fruit that tastes better and lasts longer, Agricultural Research Service scientists report. Research shows such a tomato to be only a few years away. ARS plant physiologist Jerry D. Cohen and colleagues have genetically altered the levels of auxin, a hormone which causes a tomato to grow and ripen. It's the best knownand probably the most importantof the five major plant hormones. Scientists have been studying auxin for more than 120 years. They've been able to change auxin levels, but the changes were expressed throughout the plant, not just in the fruit. The aim is to control the hormone production so that it can be introduced into specific, targeted tissues--such as the fruit-- without affecting the growth processes in other parts of the plant. At the ARS Horticultural Crops Quality Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., Cohen and colleagues inserted a backwards copy of iaglua gene from corninto a tomato to turn this gene off. Because the gene was put in with a fruit-specific promoter, only the tomato fruit was affected. The resultant fruit ripened more slowly. This work is in collaboration with scientists in the ARS Climate Stress Laboratory in Beltsville. ARS is the chief scientific agency in the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Another plus for auxin: Decreasing the gene's level of expression throughout receptor plants caused them to easily form large numbers of roots from cuttings and spurred rapid root growth in germinating seedlings. This could be significant for plants that are difficult to root from cuttings and could increase the survival rate of seeds planted in dry soils. Cohen expects this research to produce a store-bought tomato with vine-ripened taste in about 3 years. ---------- Scientific contact: Jerry D. Cohen, ARS Horticultural Crops Quality Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (703) 306-1442, fax (703) 306-0355, jdcohen@NSF.gov (on detail to the National Science Foundation until October 1999). ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 12:28:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03432 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA14832 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:36:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14636 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id KAA223230 (8.9.1/50); Wed, 12 May 1999 10:36:17 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990508173646.00705e9c@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 17:36:46 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: health insurance Cc: wfubobd@ecol.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 716 Mark was looking for information on health insurance for farmers.... National Farmers Union offers health insurance, usually through its state affiliates. They have a website where you can access the state offices - I think MA has one, Mark. The National Farmers Union is a progressive, grass roots family farm organization concerned about all aspects of life on farms and all members of farm families. There are sister NFUs in other countries, as well. Here in the US, NFU started in Point, Texas in 1903. In the 40s / 50s it worked with the Highlander Institute. The organization has benefited family farmers since its beginning as a voice in the national and state policy arenas, in helpping farmers start cooperatives, and keeping its members and their children educated on farm issues. I went through the youth program, where I learned how to start a coop, self-govern, and write my legislators, and where I learned about concentration in agriculture and corporate control of the food system. Lots of the organic growers in Wisconsin purchase their insurance through Farmers Union. NFU also participates in the Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture. The NFU site, which represents 300,000 US family farmers and ranchers in 24 states, takes on farmers' issues and legislation from the average farmer's point of view. The organization also works for rural community legislation. You can find out about the organization, browse the newsletter, and have a look at the issues it is currently dealing with. Included is a state-by-state organization directory. The URL is http://www.nfu.org. Progressive Farmer listed this as a "best of the internet" site. Best - Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 12:48:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03873 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25153 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:53:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (stat49.webserf.net [204.77.122.49] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA25035 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 11:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905121553.LAA25035@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.172] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A3B5150005E; Wed, 12 May 1999 10:52:21 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:52:00 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Credit where credit is due department ... Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 717 On Wed, 12 May 1999 08:57:59 -0600, Jane Sooby wrote: >>Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the >>degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years >>after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA >>alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which >>misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to >>disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the >>1930s. > >You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. For those not familiar with it, this "knowledge" is the result of work by David Pimentel, entomologist at Cornell. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 13:13:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04581 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA16053 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:25:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA16007 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08012 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-47.nidlink.com [216.18.141.54]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA22184; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:25:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990512163054.009fa700@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:30:54 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 718 The May 7, 1999 Science has a critical article on the genetics of Bt resistance in European corn borer (F. Huang, L.L. Buschman, Higgins, McGaughey, "Inheritance of Resistance to Bt Toxin (Dipel ES) in the ECB," page 965-967). The new finding is that one or a few genes account for resistance observed in the lab, and that the gene is "incompletely dominant autosomal." Heretofore, most people thought the gene was recessive; the high dose/refugia resistance management strategy depends upon this gene being recessive. The author's state that if their finding holds, there will be need to rethink ECB resistance management plans. BTW, this is a good example of the scientific surprises that can be expected as we move into the ag biotech era. This is part because genetic changes unleashed across millions of acres (or in a backyard) can cause so many horrendously complex secondary and tertiary responses in ecosystems, and secondarily because the science has not been done -- Ann Clark's point that there has been a systematic effort to NOT look under certain rocks. Wouldn't one think that the genetics of resistance in the ECB would be a subject of serious analysis well before 20 million acres are being planted in the U.S. corn belt. But clearly it was not; it is my sense (someone correct me if I am wrong) that the work these scientists did could have been done before had the funding and commitment been present to look under that rock. For the non-geneticists among us, would someone please post a lay-person's explanation of what an "incompletely dominant autosomal gene" is; along with an explanation of why this matters so much in designing a resistance management strategy. If someone would be willing to talk me through it, I'll write it up for the list. Another relatively urgent request -- I am working on an assessment of the ECB Bt-corn resistance management plan that is under EPA review now. I, and others, need very quick help on a key issue. What insects spend some time in corn fields, and might develop resistance to Bt, that in other life-stages spend time in fruit and vegetable crops where growers are now largely reliant on foliar Bts for Lepidopteran control? If you know of people who have thought about this and could help create a list, and provide some sense of the potential for insect migration carrying resistance genes into other regions, please be in touch. I am willing to provide a modest level of $$ for anyone that can turn something out quickly (i.e. about 2 weeks). I will also eventually share what we learn with the list. So you bug-flow experts out there, please be in touch. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 13:45:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05286 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07979 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07878 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:05:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "Helen Husher (E-mail)" Subject: New book on community-supported agriculture (CSA) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:05:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 719 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:51:30 -0500 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Helen Husher Subject: new book on community-supported agriculture Sharing the Harvest: A Guide to Community-Supported Agriculture A new guide to community-supported agriculture is now available, written in part by Robyn Van En, who founded Induan Line Farm, the first community-supported farm in The United States, and in part by Elizabeth Henderson, co-author of The Real Dirt and a leader in community-supported agriculture, or CSA, for more than a decade. Sharing the Harvest questions what it means to have grapes from Chile, apples from New Zealand, and tomatoes from Holland in U.S. grocery stores. Fresh food can be surprisingly difficult to find in our culture of abundance, and the search for it is close to the heart of the CSA movement. CSA allows consumers to buy shares in a farm's produce before it is planted, thus giving the farmer cash flow when cash is needed; the CSA model also allows farmers to work directly with consumers, allowing more of the consumer food dollar to stay on the local farm. Sharing the Harvest offers case histories, pointers, models, and strategies for starting and running a CSA. The risks and satisfactions of production, labor, and management vary greatly from farm to farm, and the book captures the wide range of choices available to people interested in starting a CSA operation. With charts, photos, and a resource section, Sharing the Harvest is for anyone interested in alternative farming. The book, which is the product of a partnership with Northeast SARE and Chelsea Green Publishing, can be ordered from Chelsea Green at 800/639-4099. ************************************* Helen Husher Writer/Editor Northeast Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) Program Hills Building -- Carrigan Drive University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405-0082 Phone: 802-656-0554 Fax: 802-656-4656 ************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 13:45:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05290 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07749 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from msue.msu.edu (msue.msue.msu.edu [35.8.2.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07714 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smalley (smalley3.user.msu.edu [35.10.78.136]) by msue.msu.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4) with SMTP id NAA35939; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:20 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990512125932.00b5a438@msue.msu.edu> X-Sender: smalley@msue.msu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:59:32 -0400 To: "Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE)" , From: Susan Smalley Subject: Re: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK In-Reply-To: <0039000009765047000002L072*@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 720 Paul, Your inquiry provides a wonderful opportunity to share a new publication with you and the SANET world -- The Many Faces of Community Supported Agriculture (CSA): A Guide to Community Supported Agriculture in Indiana, Michigan, & Ohio. The guide profiles CSA farms, their philosophy and activitey within all three states. "Many Faces" is the result of a year-long collaborative effort among the Michigan Organic Food and Farm Alliance (MOFFA), the Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association (OEFFA), and Sustainable Earth, Inc., and was supported by a Professional Development Program grant from the North Central Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Extension program (NCR SARE). Dr. Laura Delind, anthropologist and CSA member, coordinated the project and edited the 107-page book. Each of the 35 CSA's it profiles is unique, and reading about them is a great way to get "the feel" of CSA life and meet the people who are involved. They share both the opportunities and the challenges they have experienced. Copies of the book have been sent to county Extension offices in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. Additional copies are available for $10/copy including shipping and handling, from MOFFA, PO Box 530, Hartland, MI 48353, 810-632-7952; OEFFA, PO Box 82234, Columbus, OH 43202, 614-267-3663; Sustainable Earth, Inc., 100 Georgeton Ct., West Lafayette, IN 47906, 765-463-9366. You may also contact Dr. DeLind directly at delind@pilot.msu.edu or 517-355-7490. Susan B. Smalley Extension Specialist Sustainable Food & Farming Systems smalley@msue.msu.edu Michigan State University 517-432-0049 Voice Department of Crop & Soil Sciences 517-353-3834 Fax 270 Plant & Soil Science Building East Lansing, MI 48824-1325 >02:37 PM 5/12/99 +0000, Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE) wrote: >Dear All, > >I am currently conducting research into the CSA experience in the US, with a >view to looking at whether the principle would translate to the UK farming >system. >Do you know of any other reports/publications that provide an overview of the >CSA experience in the US so far?. Highlights, problems, legalities etc. > >PAUL COOK >Farming & Forestry Branch >Countryside Agency >John Dower House >Crescent Place >Cheltenham >Gloucestershire >GL50 3RA >England >UK To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 13:47:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05369 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08024 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07863 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08593 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.48]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:00:22 -0500 Message-ID: <199905121158580970.00968FFC@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990512145759.006bda54@unlvm.unl.edu> References: <2.2.32.19990512145759.006bda54@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:58:58 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Jane Sooby" , "Bart Hall" Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA07867 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 721 I haven't been giving full attention to this thread. The "value added" logic of those who support / defend the use of GMO's in daily life (rather to correct serious pathologies in limited situations) ignores the counter-evolutionary and invasive implications of the **methodology** (emphasis intended) and the discrepancy between intrinsic and implied ("added") value. The problem is intensified as GMO's themselves reproduce genetically, what didn't begin genetically (at least in that species). The crux of the issue is that of accountability, risk calculation and the where the burden of evidence should lie. With DDT and cigarettes, the promoters also denied any negative results and many deaths occurred as a result, before the record was set straight. The GMO issue is both more complex and more insidious. No agreement will be reached as the motivation behind the promoting group is clearly mercenary, despite the veil of "value added". The only solution will be legislative and since legislators themselves are generated by (and therefore subject to) marketing and the public's response, and therefore: Someone's ass WILL have to get kicked, and the sooner the better. I will not respond to further comments on this thread (for now). *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/05/99 at 8:57 AM Jane Sooby wrote: >Dear Bart, > >Your observations are very timely and to the point. Dale used the industry >arguments that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic >manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain medications; >grains will be designed to have particular nutritional compositions; etc. > >Does this approach strike anyone else as back-asswards? Is not the bounty of >nature enough to suit our needs? Have we not co-evolved with the plants and >animals that share this planet with us? Even the Avery-esque arguments about >increasing yields with intensive chemical production techniques fail when >you consider that hunger is such a political phenomenon, a result of >mis-distribution rather than low production. > >The blinders that result in tunnel vision are firmly in place in many >sectors of society, and agriculture is certainly no exception. Yes, friends, >we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow ourselves to see >them. How about using an ecological approach, working with the cycles of >nature, the complex dynamics of soil, and the miraculous natural >capabilities of plants to attempt to improve the nutritional value of our >food and feed by utilizing what is already there? Sir Albert Howard was >advocating such a holistic approach 50 years ago or more. > >The simple answer is that the profit potential from this approach is very >limited as it relies not on chemical or biotechnological inputs but on >intensive system management, therefore industry would not be very interested >in it. > >But what is really important: profit or authentically feeding and nourishing >the world? Learning how apathetic the majority of American consumers are >compared to their European counterparts is discouraging. Without external >pressure from consumers, industry is free to set the terms of discussion and >sell the illusion that maximizing control of natural processes is equivalent >to maximizing human benefit. I dispute this equation. > >>We are so slow to learn. > >>Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the >>degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years >>after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA >>alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which >>misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to >>disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the >>1930s. > >You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. > >Jane Sooby > >University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician >Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer > >High Plains Ag Lab >3257 Rd. 109 >Sidney, NE 69162 > >308-254-3918 >308-254-2402 (FAX) >308-254-0725 (HOME) > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 13:52:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05473 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06346 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:59:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (mail.gov.pe.ca [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06265 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:55:19 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:56:15 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu Cc: wfubobd@ecol.net Subject: Re: health insurance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 722 Insurers are usually a pretty hard-nose, practical bunch who stick to what their actuarial tables tell them. I was idly wondering whether organic farmers might get a lower insurance rate (for health or life insurance) than conventional, chemical farmers. If the actuarial tables suggest that the risk of health affects is less for organic farmers, lower rates would certainly be justified. On the other hand, maybe the risk of injury or death from machinery use is so overwhelming (relatively speaking) that it masks any effect of chemical exposure. Does anyone on the list know? BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 15:18:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA07213 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA27378 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:20:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (stsml01.atl.mediaone.net [24.88.1.79]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27203 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.net (client37228.atl.mediaone.net [24.88.37.228]) by stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18189; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002301be9c83$75906a00$e4255818@ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.net> From: "Craig Gilbert" To: , , Subject: Organic Farm & Garden Tour May 16, May 23 & June 13 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:26:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE9C83.741F26C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 723 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE9C83.741F26C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Georgia Land Stewardship Association is having the annual organic = farm and garden tours 3 Sundays in and around Atlanta. May 16, May 23 & = June 13. May 16 is in Athens, GA area May 23 is intown on the east side in the morning, 40 minutes east of = town in the afternoon June 13 is in the north of town in the morning, then 1 hour north for = the afternoon=20 Here is a link to the home page with tour information link at the = bottom. Please forward this email to other lists where others would = enjoy and benefit from this beautiful event. =20 Organic Farm and Garden Tours : http://www.pd.org/~glsa/ ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE9C83.741F26C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    The Georgia Land Stewardship = Association is=20 having the annual organic farm and garden tours = 3 Sundays in and around Atlanta.  May=20 16, May 23 & June 13.
     
    May 16 is in Athens, GA area
    May 23 is intown on the east side in the morning, 40 = minutes=20 east of town in the afternoon
    June 13 is in the north of town in the morning, then = 1 hour=20 north for the afternoon
     
     
    Here is a link to the home page with = tour=20 information link at the bottom.  Please forward this email to other = lists=20 where others would enjoy and benefit from this beautiful = event.
     
     
    Organic Farm and Garden Tours = :   http://www.pd.org/~glsa/
    ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE9C83.741F26C0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 15:26:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA07392 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA00132 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:28:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00086 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gov.pe.ca (mail.gov.pe.ca [142.176.20.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10460 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:24:44 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:25:47 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu, bluestem@webserf.net Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 724 Jane, >>we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow ourselves to see them. The Monsanto's of the world have seen the universe of natural alternatives -- the entire genetic complement of nature. It is far off-base, in my opinion, to say that we should work with what nature has given us without recognizing how dramatically humans have already altered the raw material. The vast majority of ag. crops are very far from their "natural" ancestors. Most of them could not persist without human intervention to protect them from competitors. Calling this co-evolution isn't quite right, given the intentional directing of the path of ag. plant and animal characteristics. To me, tapeworms, viruses and bacteria, etc. have co-evolved. The gut flora and fauna in ruminants represent an excellent coevolution example; not corn, wheat or cotton. With few exceptions, our ag. research establishment does a very haphazard job of risk assessment of conventional technologies. A notable exception I know of is the measurement of solanine in new potato varieties (NOT done in all jurisdictions, by the way). We do a lot better at risk assessment for pesticides than we do for new crop varieties -- including non-GE -- it isn't safe to assume that novel characteristics will not appear in normal, sexual recombination -- the arguments about unpredictability of gene location and expression in GE are equally valid for conventional breeding. So far, at least, the ag. GE folks are using naturally-occuring genes; they haven't synthesized completely novel ones to any degree. For many years, plant breeders have used chemical and radiation treatments to induce random mutations in plants, then screened for "improved" characteristics to breed into commercial lines; this mimics natural processes, but are these alleles "synthetic"; are they dangerous? Who assesses the risk of letting them loose in fields? The socio-political question has been with us for years and will likely stay around for a while. As long as we are not willing to give away food to people who cannot produce all they need (or afford to pay for it), some will starve while others are paid not to produce. Eventually, truly "improved" production technology will be needed. By improved, I mean sustainable -- including energy inputs. In my view, this sustainable system will include plants and animals with transgenic characteristics. Based on the amount of GE food being produced and consumed in North America, we should know pretty soon from epidemiologic evidence whether there are significant, obvious deleterious effects of these foodstuffs on human health. Ecosystem health concerns will require attention; in any case, the detection of RR or Bt genes in, say a wild mustard isn't evidence of ecological harm -- so, ecological researchers will have careers in trying to detect evidence of impacts of gene escape from their more holistic field studies. There will be impacts, though I expect most of them to be related to the human/plant interaction -- ie, weeds, Bt resistance, etc. -- than to wild ecosystem effects, since most of these genes are unlikely to confer competitive advantage on the wild plants that express the genes. I'm with Dale in believing that significant adverse health effects from ag. GMOs are unlikely; I would be surprised by them. I'm also with Ann in saying I'd rather not be surprised. Given the current controversy, the prudent course is to intensify government-sponsored, or, at least, government-supervised safety assessments for GE. This technology can never be "proven" safe; a growing body of negative evidence of harm would go a long way to allaying fears, though. And, such research would provide the safety of early warning, in the off-chance that there are harmful effects (a la DDT, Thalidomide, etc.) lurking in the technology. Keep the pressure on for study that is insulated from corporate self-interest. When a red flag --like the Puztai results -- pops up, efforts to replicate and verify the conclusions need to be started right away (instead of just accepting the results as proven or, alternatively, explaining them away as the result of experimental flaws -- depending on your pre-existing bias). I accept that many of the arguments against GE have theoretical basis in biology; except for pest resistance (which is pretty much guaranteed, eventually, whether GE is involved or not), I haven't seen evidence that these harmful effects are likely to occur or persist. Obviously, I'm not ready to give up on GE just because it involves human intervention in the reshuffling of naturally-occuring genomes; I am eager to see that the result of this technology is screened adequately for safety -- as should be done for products of conventional breeding programs. I'd also like to have a better idea of the _relative_ riskiness of GE foods compared to pesticides in food, bacterial contamination, or any of a number of risk factors --> I don't want to fret excessively over a real, but minutely-small danger while overlooking a much bigger issue. Right now, we are ill-equipped to say which is which -- and, as Ann rightly points out, relatively little effort is going into helping ke! ! ep us better-informed of levels of risk. BOB ! ! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 15:30:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA07451 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA08215 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:38:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08131 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:38:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id NAA207032 (8.9.1/50); Wed, 12 May 1999 13:38:45 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990508203924.00723724@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 20:39:24 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: animals fight urban sprawl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 725 Considering this Japanese experience, farmers and wildlife might make a good team to fight urban sprawl elsewhere. m3 >Animal Plaintifs > >In Japan, animals are now being allowed to bring suits to court. So far, a >number of animal plaintifs have sued developers and officials for habitat >destruction. In 1995, the endangered Amani rabbit (with the pro bono aid of >sympathetic lawyers) sued to block development of two golf courses. Lawers >for a family of bean geese sued to block a freeway near Tokyo that threatened >winter feeding grounds, and a coalition of invertebrates has teamed up with >some foxes to mount a legal challenge to the destruction of their shared >habitat. > >- Earth Island Journal, via Yes! A Journal of Positive Futures (#9, Spring >1999) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 15:49:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA07852 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA15783 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:53:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15717 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gov.pe.ca (mail.gov.pe.ca [142.176.20.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10937 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:49:11 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:49:18 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, benbrook@hillnet.com Subject: Re: Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 726 A year or two back, I ran across a listing of introduction dates for various pest-control agents and the year that resistance was first noted. Unfortunately, I can't seem to uncover the list right now, due to a laughably inadequate filing "system"; however, I seem to recall that Bt resistance was recorded more than ten years ago. This implies that the genes for resistance are likely floating around out there just waiting for pressure to promote their spread -- whether it be increased Bt spraying or, more likely, Bt GMOs. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 15:55:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA07948 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA22108 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:04:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA22050 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:04:47 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term5-29.vta.west.net [205.254.241.157]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E4BA24BC7 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:03:54 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: re: Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE: Joe Cummins on Bt Resistance Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 727 fwd from the gentech list: May 6, 1999 Prof. Joe Cummins e-mail: jcummins@julian.uwo.ca New study shows that the refuge strategy for Bt resistance *hastens* spread of insects resistant to corn borer! Millions of acres of corn bearing genes for Bt toxins that poisons corn borer insects have been planted in the United States and Canada. This year Canada implemented requirements and the US recommends planting blocks of corn without the Bt resistant corn to provide a 'refuge' where wild type corn borer insects will thrive. The theory is that mutations will take place in the insects making them tolerant of the Bt toxin. It is assumed that all resistance will be recessive so that when the mutant mates with the conveniently available wild borers the off-springs will all be sensitive to toxin and die when feeding on the genetically engineered Bt corn. However, if some dominant Bt mutants appear among the Bt tolerant insects those mutants will spread their genes by mating in the refuge and their off-springs will thrive on the genetically engineered Bt corn. The appearance of dominant borer mutants would create a disastrously rapid spread of borer resistant mutants because the refuge would provide a rich breeding ground for the resistant mutants (dominant mutants appearing in fields with out a refuge would have a long search for borers to mate with). This weeks Science (May 7,1999:965-967) "Inheritance of resistance to Bacillus thuringiensis toxin (Dipel ES) in the European Corn Borer" Haung, F., Buschman, L., Higgins, R. and McGaugen, W. report shows that dominant mutants conferring resistance to Bt toxin can be recovered from Corn Borers exposed to the toxin. Such mutants would spread like wildfire through corn fields with refuge plots because over half the off-springs of mating between mutant and wild type insects would be resistant to Bt toxin.The refuge would provide a rich breeding ground for spread of the dominant mutants. The reported finding of dominant Corn Borer mutants should be enough to call a moratorium on the use of Bt corn. Furthermore, the required use of the dangerous refuge concept has often been promoted as a concession to environmental critics of genetic engineering. Even though those first promoting refuge were rabid biotechnology advocates the approach was taken up by environmental critics who seem unaware of the potential disaster associated with the appearance of dominant Bt mutants. My repeated warning about the potential danger fell on deaf ears. Bureaucrats such as those in Biotechnology Canada are highly paid but not strong in genetics or for that matter in most substantial scientific matters. They are very slow to act to reverse a poor policy and quick to place blame when policy fails. My expectation is that if the dominant mutants spread rapidly promoted by refuge the bureaucrats will place blame on environmental critics and use that blame to promote even more destructive biotechnology. I hope that some others will recognize that dominant Bt mutants spell disaster and urge moratorium on the spread Bt crops until the problem of resistance can be dealt with in a scientific way, on recognizing the reality of dominant mutations. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 16:11:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08234 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08118 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:25:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07973 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:25:10 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: GMOs and collateral damage Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:25:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 728 Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 18:00:57 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: GMOs and collateral damage Cc: dmahr@entomology.wisc.edu, smahr@entomology.wisc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just a note to add re: GMOs. Midwest Biological Control News [Vol. V, #11; November 1998] reported that researchers John Obrycki and Les Lewis (USDA - IA) found that "transgenic Bt corn pollen had significant negative effects on monarch butterfly and cecropia moth larvae in laboratory studies. Field studies showed enough corn pollen is deposited on milkweed plants adjacent to corn fields to kill young monarch larvae feeding on the plants." If you wish to subscribe to the monthly newsletter, contact editor Susan Mahr, smahr@entomology.wisc.edu Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 16:15:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08319 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08356 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:25:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08268 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:25:29 -0400 (EDT) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com (301) by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7RBLa03062; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <87de490f.246b2ef7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:22:31 EDT Subject: Hall, Pickett, Nature & GMO To: bluestem@webserf.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 729 Hello, friends - I do hold in "high regard" A. D. Pickett's viewpoint, quoted in a posting by Bart Hall: What I want to know is, where can I find proof (or at least evidence) for another Pickett statement: <. . . overall percentage losses of crop to disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the1930s.> I have read a number of equivalent statements over the years, but never one that cited a source or even a reference. Can anyone tell me where to look to see if it's possible to verify these increased % losses? And if they can be verified, can they counter the agritexperts' view that if you can double the yield, you can suffer these % losses and still have a substantial net gain? What concerns/frightens/terrifies me is the scale of today's experiments, when only time can tell us whether the results are beneficial, harmless, or disastrous. Nature's evolutionary experiments start out small and spread slowly, if it all. In contrast, biotech reportedly covered 50 million U.S. acres with GM plants in its third year of experimenting. Thanks for listening, feedback would be nice - Betty Ann Gras To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 16:17:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08377 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA10697 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:32:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA10679 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA29426 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 12 May 99 15:34:41 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 12 May 99 15:34:25 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:34:23 EST Subject: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <8BB7186F10@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 730 Chuck: I passed your note onto to a friend, with the following response. Ann ----------------------- Traditionally in plant breeding there are 2 types of resistance to insects and pathogens, vertical and horizontal. Vertical is typically a single gene, while horizontal is quantitative in nature (several genes, probably several different physiological processes being altered, also influenced by the environment). Vertical is nice in the sense that it is very easy for a breeder to work with and move from one genetic background to another. Bt falls under the category of vertical resistance. Now for decades plant breeders have released lines with vertical resistance knowing full well that this resistance will be overcome. In the mean time they are continuing to develop and release lines with horizontal resistance too. This is similar to what we were talking about this morning, in that traditionally plant breeders do not release material unless it merits release (rule #1). This is another "rule" to add to the list, plant breeders release single gene resistance all of the time knowing full well that it will be overcome (rule #2). >For the non-geneticists among us, would someone please post a >lay-person's explanation of what an "incompletely dominant autosomal gene" >is; along with an explanation of why this matters so much in designing a >resistance management strategy. If someone would be willing to talk me >through it, I'll write it up for the list. > Ok, I think that what they mean by "incomplete dominance" is that the heterozygote (one functional copy of the resistance gene and one copy of the non-functional resistance gene) will confer tolerance to Bt. By tolerance, I mean that if the Bt protein level is not excessive then the insect will survive. When there are insects homozygous for the resistance gene (2 functional copies of the gene) they should have more tolerance or resistance to Bt protein. "Autosomal" simply refers to the fact that the gene resides on the "normal" set of chromosomes, rather than in the mitochondrial DNA. This means that the trait can be passed both through the males and females. The reason that dominant resistance to Bt is alarming is that it can move through the European Corn Borer population very rapidly. For example, lets say that one male that is heterozygous for the resistance gene, survives on Bt corn and finds a female moth that was from refugia corn. They mate, 50% of their offspring will be resistant. If 2 heterozygous individuals mate, 75% of their offspring will be resistant, one third of which carry 2 functional copies of the resistance gene making them more resistant than their parents. There are 2 big differences between recessive and dominant resistance genes. First for resistance to occur, 2 functional copies (homozygous) of the recessive gene need to be present, while only 1 functional copy (heterozygous) of the dominant gene needs to be present. The second difference is how they arise and survive in the corn borer population. The mutations always occur in the heterozygous condition (one functional copy and one non-functional copy). Dominant ones will arise under selection (i.e., on Bt corn) and those heterozygous individuals can actually survive. Now I'm sure that recessive mutations will also arise on Bt corn, but those individuals will not survive because you need to be homozygous for the mutation. The only way that a recessive resistance gene could arise is in individuals from the refugia that mated amongst themselves, to produce individuals that were homozygous for the recessive resistance gene. >Another relatively urgent request -- I am working on an >assessment of the ECB Bt-corn resistance management plan that is >under EPA review now. I, and others, need very quick help on a key >issue. What insects spend some time in corn fields, and might >develop resistance to Bt, that in other life-stages spend time in >fruit and vegetable crops where growers are now largely reliant on >foliar Bts for Lepidopteran control? If you know of people who have >thought about this and could help create a list, and provide some >sense of the potential for insect migration carrying resistance genes >into other regions, please be in touch. I am willing to provide a >modest level of $$ for anyone that can turn something out quickly >(i.e. about 2 weeks). I will also eventually share what we learn >with the list. So you bug-flow experts out there, please be in >touch. I'm not sure if I can be of any help with this. I've been under the impression that each Bt protein has a fairly narrow range of insects that it can actually work on. For example, the Bt protein that is now in corn, does not affect corn root worm. However, I understand that other Bt proteins are fairly effective against the corn rootworm. ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 16:55:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09100 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA23688 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:53:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23625 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12355 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA11602 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:53:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199905121953.OAA11602@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:53:10 -0500 Subject: XIVth International Plant Protection Congress X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 731 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you plant protection issue watchers. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:58:23 GMT-3 From: Jack Woodall Source: EPPO Secretariat, 1999-03. XIVth International Plant Protection Congress The XIVth International Plant Protection Congress (Plant Protection towards the third millennium - where chemistry meets ecology) will be held in Jerusalem, Israel, on the 1999-07-25/30. The main topics will be the following: IPM toward the 21st century: strategies and technologies IPM implementation programs, difficulties and achievements Ecological issues in plant protection Biotechnology in plant protection Resistance to pesticides: evolution and management Innovative approaches in pesticide chemistry and chemical ecology Technology for optimization of pesticide application Regulations and risk assessment Eco-toxicology and fate of pesticides in the environment Contact: Secretariat - XIVth International Plant Protection Congress P.O. Box 50006 Tel Aviv 61500, Israel Tel: +972 3 5140000 Fax: +972 3 5175674 or +972 3 5140077 e-mail: ippc@kenes.com WWW: http://www.kenes.com/IPPC Final date for registration at reduced fee (410 USD) is 1999-04-15. - -- ProMED-mail <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such trifling investment of fact. --Mark Twain To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 17:01:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09197 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA29712 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA29700 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12569 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA11704 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:58:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199905121958.OAA11704@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:58:31 -0500 Subject: /Vibrio/ risk in oysters X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 732 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you food safety watchers. Perhaps some of you have the expertise to be of assistance to this effort. FWIW. peace mish >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A ProMED MAIL POST Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 16:56:25 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack FDA to review food poisoning from oysters - ----------------------------------------------------- [This doesn't mention the venue of the public meeting on 26 May 1999, but it does request that scientists and other industry and consumer groups submit information on the rate and conditions of infections to FDA by 6 July 1999 (again, no mention of to whom at FDA - MPP] U.S. regulators asked science and consumer groups Friday to help determine how often Americans are sickened by bacteria in raw oysters that are one of the leading causes of worldwide food poisoning. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) said it would hold a public meeting on May 26 to assess the public health risk of _Vibrio parahaemolyticus_ infections ahead of considering any change to U.S. shellfish regulations. Scientists and other industry and consumer groups must submit information about the rate and conditions of infections by July 6, the FDA said. Found naturally in coastal areas, the bacteria cause diarrhea, vomiting and other symptoms that sometimes require hospitalization. A more dangerous form of the microorganism -- _Vibrio vulnificus_ -- sickens a small number of Americans annually and typically kills half of them. The milder form of the disease strikes frequently in Japan, and is a leading cause of global foodborne illness, the FDA said. Last year, more than 500 people in the U.S. Gulf Coast, the Northeast, and the Pacific Northwest were sickened after eating raw shellfish. In 1997, an outbreak of _Vibrio parahaemolyticus_ in oysters was blamed for 209 illnesses from California to British Columbia. Data more than 25 years old guided the FDA in setting a maximum level of _Vibrio parahaemolyticus_ in raw shellfish at 10,000 cells per gram. But outbreaks in the past two years suggest that an infectious dose may be as low as 100 cells, the FDA said. "FDA expects the risk assessment to provide the scientific underpinnings FDA needs to develop food safety policies that reduce the risk of disease resulting from ingestion of _V. parahaemolyticus_ in molluscan shellfish, and other seafood consumed raw,'' the agency said. The FDA also wants to develop rules for closing waters to shellfish gatherers to prevent the illness, the agency said. Oysters and shellfish are regulated by the FDA and state governments through a national shellfish sanitation program. - -- ProMED-mail <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take a deep breath. Yeah, I know it doesn't make you feel better, but it oxygenates your blood and allows you to swear in longer strings. --Mister 3D To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 17:01:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09214 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03910 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:09:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03869 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:09:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (552) by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7TBPa04195 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <80760c0c.246b39b7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:08:23 EDT Subject: One Eyed Jacks: The ADM-DuPont Soybean Deal To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 733 One Eyed Jacks: The ADM-DuPont Soybean Deal by Steve Sprinkel Scotland County, Missouri An interesting Wild Card was played in the past week of 5 May 99 when Archer Daniels Midland upped the stakes at the commodity crop casino. ADM is offering a last-minute bonus to growers who plant a non-GMO soybean hybrid designed to take on the ravages of DuPont's Synchrony herbicide. What a marriage from hell. An 18 cent per bushel premium they say? Oh, that will buy you a new set of tires for your JD9400-particularly since you would need a 425 horsepower machine and farm 4000 acres to make those pennies pay out. On that scale you could bring in an extra $36,000 gross*. Could we back up a minute? I thought all the players at this particular table were losers. Is this a Royal Flush, or just dealers picking from a deck with more than 52 cards? A most unusual ( daresay, improbable) leviathan suddenly sweeping in, horns blaring, to rescue farmers for 18 cents a bushel when soybeans are depressed at a rate 10 times that? Whereforth comes such generosity? What farmers need are better soybean prices, not a phony bail-out just because Monsanto and all the gravy-trainers who jumped aboard the SS Frankenstein have run aground on the public/private Euro embargo on genetically modified agriculture. Dueling Terra-Gators: I see massive threewheeler herbicide units jousting amid the stubble, Monsanto versus DuPont seeking primacy over the rights to continue the despicable border-to-border pollution of the biospehere. Synchrony versus Round-Up . Who's poison will win? "Synchrony? Sounds like a new name for a NATO war-operation", my Texas neighbor, Reno Travis, wrote with a histrionic air of bumpkin cyncism. "Synchrony.....now that's a coincidence. I can imagine that the narcissists in those boardrooms thought that was a stroke of genius." When was this miracle merger hatched? It doesn't seem like it was planned, unless trainwrecks like this can be predicted. Did the wet spring give them a window to push this one forward? Soybean planting is not that much delayed, but if the ground had been drier this season ADM-DuPont would have announced their dreadful deal with more than 11% of the acreage planted. Sounds more like an afterthought than typical corporate strategy. Or desperation, we shall fervently hope. Creating a timeline is helpful. Because of export market requirements, Archer Daniels Midland has been forced to segregate the commodities they handle, and faced with the uncertainties of GMO contamination, decided to not handle any GMO corn whatsoever. Synchronizing the soybean trade was the next step. The GMO corn prohibition came in late April, and was a result of overseas consumer disaffection for GMO foods that spilled over from January' into February and grew into scandal by March. Crisis created opportunity. It was no sweat getting the Synchrony seed. These things are grown from pole to pole, so even in a pinch they could get the planting seed up from Argentina in ten days, which was enough time to influence how the ground would be planted in Minnesota, Michigan, New York and Ontario. Why does the ADM-DuPont link-up look a bit twisted? Let us count the ways. Like cannibalistic jackals piling on the hopefully soon-to-be-rotting flesh of the Beast that is GMO, these two superpowers feast on their own kind. Taking short term profit at the expense of rivals Monsanto, Zeneca and AgrEvo, we observe ADM-DuPont fronting two-dimensional good will that only their slavish puppets at the Farm Bureau and AgriTalk can hype as a good alternative to a sour, even calamitous market. Cannily, DuPont gets to butter both sides of its bread ( they play in the GMO trade through their acquisition of Pioneer), and perhaps can knock Monsanto down a few more notches so DuPont can buy the carcass at deflated prices. Third-guessing myself, I semi-paranoically wonder if this is dupe-time, and I will be caught in my own net, crabbing about pesticide use on a non GMO crop which the Splice and Dice Gang have used as bait for people like me to self-contradict over. Then they can say: " You can't have it both ways." To which I might be able to say: " I want neither of your worlds. I will close you all down before I die, you Armani-wearing, corporate welfare weasels. We see you working, and you are not working very well! Your lies are hiding in plain sight." Meanwhile, its Hush Time on the plains: calm those fretful farmers lest the stink from these bins full of unsold GMO soybeans and corn lead them to action. You have to love it, by the way, when the "authorities" recommend that farmers feed their GMO crops to their livestock. What livestock? You mean Armour's, Murphy's and IBP's livestock? Is my name Tyson? What in the hell is this stuff? Synchrony is a mixture of thifensulfuron and chlorimuron and like glyphosate is also an amino acid synthesis inhibitor. Other toxic chemicals in this group include the sulfonylureas, imidazolinones and sulfonamides. They use a lot of "Imi", so nicknamed by the toxic synthetic pesticide community, on corn. Sometimes you can hit three Imi commercials in a row on your AM radio when you hit "seek" in succession around Ames. Saturation is so crucial. Saturation of print and radio, saturation at the Land Grants, saturation in DC, and saturation from stream bed to stream bed. Pour on that stuff and watch the world turn yellow. Poured on largely for cosmetics: there is such a high school prom-night mindset in ag right now, no wonder they think its more important to go broke looking like a Monsanto commercial than to have a few weeds. Well, gotta run. They're auctioning a couple of 8 row cultivators in Arbela this morning. They should go cheap To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 17:06:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09265 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00519 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:02:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00506 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12646 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA11764 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 15:02:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199905122002.PAA11764@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:02:35 -0500 Subject: Hantavirus death in Alberta X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 734 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HANTAVIRUS PULMONARY SYNDROME - CANADA (ALBERTA) (02) ************************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:05:04 -0300 From: ProMED-mail Source: Edmonton Journal, Canada, Sun 9 May 1999 [edited] A northern Alberta farmer was this year's first [Canadian] victim of the rare but deadly [Sin Nombre?] virus, which may be found in the droppings of deer mice. The farmer, from somewhere east and north of Edmonton, died after coming into contact with mice droppings and contracting the disease, said Dr. Karen Grimsrud, Alberta's deputy provincial medical officer. The man was Alberta's 20th hantavirus victim since 1989. Six have died, including three of the four victims infected last year. All but one -- a person from Okotoks southwest of Calgary -- were from north-central Alberta. Detailed information on the disease and precautions to take is available on the Internet at - -- ProMED-mail <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 17:07:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09276 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA05549 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:11:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05339 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:13:16 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: SECONDARY AGRICULTURE EDUCATION CHALLENGE GRANTS PROGRAM Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:13:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 735 -----Original Message----- From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov [mailto:owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 10:25 AM If you have any questions concerning this solicitation, please contact Dr. Kevin Bacon directly on kbacon@reeusda.gov, 202-720-8282 (phone) PLEASE SHARE WITH APPROPRIATE CONTACTS SECONDARY AGRICULTURE EDUCATION CHALLENGE GRANTS PROGRAM Higher Education Programs Science and Education Resources Development Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service U.S. Department of Agriculture --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Purpose: This is a new competitive grants program for FY 1999. Authorization is contained in section 1417(j) of the National Agricultural Research, Extension, and Teaching Policy Act of 1977, as amended (7 U.S.C. 3152(j)). The purpose of the program is to help ensure a qualified workforce to serve the food and agricultural science system, to promote excellence in education, and encourage more young Americans to pursue and complete a baccalaureate or higher degree in the food and agricultural sciences. It is intended that projects supported under this program will address local, state, regional, and/or national needs towards improving secondary education and encourage systematic linkages between public secondary schools and institutions of higher learning that will expand secondary student's awareness and understanding of professional opportunities in the food and agricultural industry. Eligibility: Proposals may be submitted by any public secondary school. For FY 1999, support is limited to grades 9-12. The submitting school must show a significant commitment to the program. Such commitment may be, but is not limited to, previous experiences, the ability to provide matching funds, or support from the school's administration. Targeted Areas of Support: For FY 1999, proposal must be directed towards secondary studies in grades 9-12. Proposals must address one or more of the following targeted areas: Curricula Design and Materials Development Promotion of Teaching Competencies Promotion of Agriscience and Agribusiness Careers Instructional Delivery Systems Student Experiential Learning Educational Activities that Increase the Diversity of Students Pursuing Degrees in Agriscience and Agribusiness Awards: Regular proposals may request up to a maximum of $15,000 (total, not per year) for projects ranging from 18 to 24 months duration. Dollar-for-dollar matching funds from a non- Federal source are required for all proposals. A school may only receive one granter per fiscal year. Funding: $480,000 for FY 1999 (supporting approximately 32 grant awards). Deadline Date for Receiving Proposals: June 2, 1999 (scheduled). Additional information and application materials is posted to the Higher Education website at http://faeis.tamu.edu/hep/menus/msgs~~1.htm Be certain that you DO NOT use www as part of the address. Please go to this Higher Education link and download it directly. The application packet is a set of ten links (one for each separate form and a set of directions. You will need to download each form and a set of directions to your computer, and then pull the file up into Wordperfect 7.0 or newer (or equivalent software). If you are still having problems, please send an e-mail to Kevin Bacon at kbacon@reeusda.gov with the exact nature of the problem. Contact Person: Dr. Kevin Bacon at 202/720-8282 or kbacon@reeusda.gov Forwarded By: Denis Ebodaghe National Program Leader for Small Farms USDA-CSREES, Washington, DC 20250-2220 Phone: 202-401-4385, Fax: 202-401-5179 E-mail: debodaghe@reeusda.gov CSREES SMALL FARM PROGRAM Website: www.reeusda.gov/smallfarm Tollfree: 1-800-583-3071 -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 17:08:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09305 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA02541 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:06:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA02497 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 16:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool482-cvx.ds40-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.51.82]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26770 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 13:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3739DF36.346745D3@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:06:25 -0700 From: Irene Reply-To: isteven@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Extension for Peruvian farmers... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 736 In formulating a project to get internet access and information to coca farmers in Peru, the aim is to slowly construct what would amount to an electronic extension service....not to replace "real live" extention agents....but to augment the farmer's need for information beyond that which the State can provide. Peru in the 50s and 60s did have what seems to have been a very good extension system modeled on the American land-grant system, complete with teams with vehicles, resources, etc. to go putzing around the countryside. However, history's events (a dictatorship, guerrilla warfare, debilitated democracy) have almost destroyed that system. Farmers now --if they're lucky--may have access to poorly-paid extension agents in some areas, some may have the support of an NGO. But the great majority creep along on their own. I am wondering if someone can recommend either internet or "human" resources who can advise on how a real extension system works....and whether there are examples of electronic "agents" available. I'm aware of newsletter put out for example by Purdue, but the farmers in Peru need must more simple, easy to understand information. I'm beginning to experiment with webpages (to be put on CD-ROM until the band-width expands) which could be easily put together with voice explanations along with written and graphic material within a system like Macromedia's Dreamweaver website building program (allows for animated graphics). The idea is to set up what I'm calling "Connections's Centers" with public access computers in jungle commercial centers, so that farmers' can come in and use them for marketing and "learning" from the CD-ROMs when they can and hopefully eventually be able to take advantage of the plunging price of computers so that coops and other farmer groupings can at least get email access. But --duh--I'm a little hazy on exactly what services ideally extension agents offer. We would be relying on the available extension agents as well as personnel (agronomists) from the project to proselitize the use of the system and hopefully get the Peruvian govt interested enough to take the project on as its own eventually. I don't know if there are examples of "private" extension systems in the US, UK, Canada or anywhere else. Comment? Sharon Stevenson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 17:59:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA10432 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11750 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:06:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11736 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from schilling.ucdavis.edu (root@schilling.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14008 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:06:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Liebhardt (ars97.ucdavis.edu [169.237.82.97]) by schilling.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.11) with SMTP id OAA11122 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905122106.OAA11122@schilling.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: fzliebha@mailbox.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:07:39 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Bill Liebhardt Subject: small risks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 737 We have been told that the risks to GMO's are small. I wondered how many other technologies or products have been considered to be small risks or were not considered risks at all. I will start the list but if you have others please add to it and we can do some public brainstorming. 1. Pesticides is good for us 2. Smoking 3. Nuclear Power 4. Chemicals which created ozone hole 5. Endocrine Disrupters 6. The plow 7. Automobile emissions and the atmosphere 8. Irriadiation of food 9. Feeding rendered diseased sheep to cattle To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 18:07:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11031 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA25114 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:27:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25069 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:27:09 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term6-4.vta.west.net [205.254.241.196]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 67F6024BC7 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:27:06 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: NZ: Secretive GE Salmon Operation Uncovered Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 738 NZ: Secretive GE Salmon Operation Uncovered Agence France Presse April 6 WELLINGTON, April 6 (AFP) - A small New Zealand political party Tuesday exposed a fish farm company developing genetically engineered salmon which grow faster and bigger than other salmon. But the company, New Zealand King Salmon, denied it was doing anything wrong and said it was working to "preserve our clean, green image". Green Party co-leader and member of parliament Jeanette Fitzsimons released documents from Communications Trumps, a public relations firm hired by King Salmon, which it said suggested keeping the trial under wraps. Trumps warned that King Salmon's work with genetically modified salmon could easily turn into a crisis because of the strong campaign against genetic engineering. "Whatever protest is made, we can be certain that television and other media will be extremely interested and will demand access to the facility." The paper said the company's messages about its research and objectives must be clear, and clarify issues including safety, environmental protections and animal welfare. "Issues such as deformities, lumps on heads etc. should not be mentioned at any point to anyone outside -- comments about those would create ghastly Frankenstein images and would be whipped up into a frenzy by Greenpeace." King Salmon operations and contracts manager Mark Gillard said claims by the Green Party that it was an experiment gone wrong were "completely false." He said the salmon involved in the trial looked "perfectly normal," with the only difference being that they grew faster and bigger than other salmon. Gillard said the trial involved taking a chinook salmon gene, rearranging it and introducing it into a chinook salmon so that the fish had two of the genes, which promoted growth. He said the company was closely monitoring the fish, which were kept in separate containers at its facility south of here. "We're concerned about risks too. We want to preserve our clean, green image," he said Gillard said the experimental fish he had seen were growing fast and looked fine. He said there was nothing secret about the firm's work, which had been known about in the scientific community and the salmon farming industry, and had been mentioned in overseas publications. The trial, which started about four years ago, was still in its very early stages and was unlikely to be applied commercially for at least 10 years, Gillard said. Fitzsimons said she was horrified at the extent of the secrecy surrounding the trial, and worried about risks to health and the environment. "Because of New Zealand's lax laws on genetic engineering, the company has managed to carry on this work for several years with official knowledge and consent, but with no public hearing or debate whatsoever," she said. She said little was known about the health risks of eating genetically-engineered salmon, and there was a danger that if they escaped into the wild they would cross-breed with wild salmon. New Zealand King Salmon is the country's largest salmon producer, with an 80 percent share of the New Zealand industry. It rears pacific king salmon from smolt, growing them in sea cages in the Marlborough Sounds and processing them in Nelson. NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 18:09:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11077 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA25441 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:27:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25377 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term6-4.vta.west.net [205.254.241.196]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1FA5024A2F for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:27:22 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: THAILAND: Rice Project Plants Seeds of Controversy Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 739 Rice Project Plants Seeds of Controversy By Prangtip Daorueng BANGKOK, Apr 28 (IPS) A plan to train rice farmers in north-east Thailand in ''modern'' technologies has been mired in claims that it would kill off traditional methods that are far more sustainable in the long run. The project seeks to get farmers to use technologies such as the conservation tillage, land leveling, use of herbicides and seeds ''with improved quality and traits''. The farmers, who would be brought such technology through microcredit, are then to teach others to use the same methods. This may sound harmless to the farmers in the Nong Yang and Lamplaymart districts in Buriram province, but activists say this is an introduction to large-scale farming that has often benefited corporate interests, excessively relied on chemicals and undercut food security. ''Converting these farmers into large-scale mechanised farms will force farmers to buy extensive machinery, inputs (chemical fertilizer and pesticides) and seeds, driving them into debt and eventually off their lands,'' Sarojeni Rengam of the Pesticide Action Network (PAN) Asia-Pacific wrote in a letter to the Population and Community Development Association (PDA), a well- known Thai NGO involved in the project. The project, called Innovative Partnership for Agricultural changes is Technology (INPACT), is also controversial in activist circles because of who is involved in it. The partners of PDA, led by well-known Thai campaigner Mechai Viravaidya, are the Thai agriculture department and the U.S. transnational company Monsanto, the world's largest herbicide company and third largest seed company. Activists say the proposed project also involves the Philippines-based International Rice Research Institute (IRRI). But IRRI says it is not directly involved with Monsanto, though it works with local groups including PDA. Activists are now lobbying against the project and to get PDA, whose reputation they say is being used by Monsanto, to back out. The call was also made by Rengam in an Apr 22 letter to PDA. According to PAN Asia-Pacific and BIOTHAI, an NGO working on biodiversity issues, the project is no ordinary agricultural training. Monsanto aims to develop large-scale extensive and industrial rice farming in Thailand, which involves increased use of its herbicides, they say. The implications of these changes are particularly serious for north-east Thailand, which is where the country's best rice is produced and where extensive industrial farming is largely alien to the local rice-growing structure. For instance, Biothai's Witoon Lianchamroon said: ''The percentage of pesticide use in this area is lower than other parts of the country. Farmers here can produce the best rice by using seeds that have been passed on from generations.'' This may well change once Monsanto gets local farmers to use its conservation tillage technology, which the firm says will help farmers cut back on tillage activates, increase the use of mechanical methods and help in conserving soil and hike yields. But critics say the north-east relies on small, non-highly mechanised operations not suited to complex machinery and inaccessible to most industrial farming technology. Monsanto Thailand says it plans to introduce its herbicides, whose performance it says has been proven in countries like the United States and Indonesia. But critics doubt this, saying Monsanto wants to get as many farmers to keep using its products. Thai activists also warn that the INPACT project may end up allowing firms like Monsanto to introduce transgenic seeds that supposedly require less pesticides and chemicals. Even this claim is doubtful though, they add, saying such plants in fact need more herbicides. They cite statistics by the U.S. agriculture department that show that in 1997, expanded plantings of herbicide tolerant soybeans resulted in a 72 percent increase in the use of Monsanto's herbicide. Besides, local campaigners say introducing a seed supposed to need less herbicides is not necessarily relevant in Thailand, because developing countries often have small farmers who use much less pesticides than those in developed countries. Likewise, the use of seeds ''with improved quality and traits'' under the north-east Thailand project implies the use of hybrid seeds which critics fear will lead to heavy use of chemical fertilisers and herbicides. Sanya Bhumichitra, marketing manager of Monsanto Thailand, said in an interview the firm's involvement in the project is only in conservation tillage. There are some 1,500 rice growers in Thailand participating in the use of this technology, including 100 in the north-east, he said. Sought for comment, IRRI said in a statement that does not ''push pesticides on farmers''. It says it has not entered into any formal agreement for the Thailand project, but that its workplan for the country includes joint activities with the agriculture department and PDA, which in turn enters into partnerships with other private groups. ''Some of our NGO partners in Thailand have been exploring partnerships with the private sector, but IRRI has not entered into any formal agreements with private companies, including Monsanto, for technology transfer activities,'' IRRI said. BIOTHAI and PAN Asia-Pacific also point to Monsanto's controversial record elsewhere in Asia. They cite how the Grameen Bank of Bangladesh, a pioneer of the micro-credit system for the poor, pulled out of its joint project with Monsanto, called the ''Grameen Monsanto Centre for Environmental-Friendly Technologies''. Monsanto had initially offered 150,000 dollars for soft loans for Bangladeshi farmers to buy agricultural and rural technology, including Monsanto's proprietary herbicides, hybrid rice, hybrid maze and cotton seeds. But protests by environmental and community-based groups, saying the project aimed only to create markets for Monsanto's own products and neglected local knowledge, drove the Grameen Bank to withdraw from it. Noted Witoon: ''The way Monsanto joins hand with a well- respected NGO in developing countries is to build up its image and it has happened before''. ''We want to urge PDA to think twice about joining with Monsanto. Technologies promoted by the company goes against the country's aim at self-sufficient way of life. It will lead to the more poverty among Thai farmers,'' he said. Monsanto Thailand's Sanya says the fears about widespread introduction of transgenic seeds is baseless because Thai laws do not allow their importation. As for Monsanto wanting to see INPACT boosting its image, Sanya said: ''To promote ourselves is to tell society what we are doing. I want to ask you if there is anything wrong with that.'' Copyright IPS To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 18:09:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA11081 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA25231 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:27:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25181 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 17:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term6-4.vta.west.net [205.254.241.196]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1393C24BCC for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 14:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:27:09 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: GM coffee seen hard to swallow Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 740 Genetically modified coffee seen hard to swallow PHILADELPHIA, PA, May 2 (Reuters) - Researchers may eventually be able to genetically modify coffee plants to resist insects or produce caffeine-free coffee beans, but public resistance could delay such developments for at least 10 years, a Monsanto Co (MTC - news) specialist said on Sunday. James Zarndt, a commercial team leader within Monsanto's specialty crops group, said the company was concerned about the public's understanding of what genetic modification of plants really means. He said until people were ``comfortable'' with the idea, Monsanto would move moderately slowly into the area. He told Reuters it was not feasible to suppose there could be any approvals for genetically modified coffee until at least the end of the next decade because of current public uncertainty and the perception of the industry. ``Processors and growers are telling us what their challenges are. Whether it is in the area of producing naturally decaffeinated coffee or insect-control issues, the scientists need to identify the genes that are responsible for controlling those issues within the plant,'' Zarndt said. He said the process to remove caffeine from coffee hurt flavor and taste, so researchers would aim to produce trees which had been genetically modified to develop ``naturally'' decaffeinated beans. ``They (scientists) believe the proper genes have been identified in certain laboratories around the world but it has not been proven yet in the field or in the factory,'' Zarndt added. While there had been very little research into genetically modified coffee yet, he said Monsanto was researching possible opportunities. According to Zarndt, Monsanto has not conducted any coffee-related consumer research but he believed U.S. coffee drinkers have shown less concern over accepting plant modifications than Europeans. He cited many obstacles facing coffee growers, particularly pressures from disease and insect control. ``At the present time they are using pretty significant chemical solutions such as fungicides and insecticides but one has to wonder if those are sustainable practices. There are potential solutions in the area of insect control in particular that biotechnology may be able to provide,'' Zarndt said. Speaking on the sidelines of a four-day Specialty Coffee Association of America (SCAA) annual meeting and exhibition, Zarndt said Monsanto was currently looking at the opportunities which existed for coffee biotechnology but had not yet engaged in any genetic modification trials. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 20:54:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA13884 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA15938 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:05:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (dh-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA15862 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.4) id UAA03532 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:01:39 -0400 From: Klaus Wiegand Subject: RE: UK, GMO etc. To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <199905122005_MC2-7586-D2F9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 741 hello dave, > Also wondering it appears that Europe is going to be GMO free, >Some GMO constructs have been accepted in Europe. right, they are accepted in medical and pharmaceutical applications. argument: you can stop intake and incorporation of the gm proteins.. >The bigger issue there is labeling. a "must be". consumers over here have a lot of power. you heard anythink about the "brent spar" oil platform-conflict. shell hads to surrender even if their arguments were the ecological better one. >item. There are special wheats for noodles, steam bread, cookies, >special soybeans that are better for soy-milk and tofu, low >phytate soy, non-GMO herbicide resistance, high-oil corn, corn >that mills better, low mycotoxin varieties etc, etc. not sure. i only can speak of german farmers and even they differ in the north and the south. one thing is common for all. they tend to keep their independance. and producing for a special market largely reduces selling alternatives. and another thing: grain buyers are very careful and snow to offer contracts with fixed prices. the durum market absolutely went down for this reason. no miller was willing to offer a fixed price before seeding. consequence: no farmer grows durum wheat anymore. two years ago miller saw, that they made an error and again were offering contracts. noone was interested !!! >conventional corn under heavy ECB pressure. Herbicide resistant >crops offer >a lot of weed management flexibility. The seed industry was taken >by surprise at how fast these products took off. It is all market- >driven by farmer demand. this does interest the farmer, but certainly not the consumer. in fact we had a symposium some time ago, where one of them told me: "all you government institutes told us for years, that pesticide residues were in the safe range. so if they are absolutely safe. so i see no argument, why reduction or elimination of them should be an advantage for us !!" that has some logic, eh ?? Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 20:54:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA13901 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA15923 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:05:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (dh-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA15850 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.4) id UAA03515 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:01:24 -0400 From: Klaus Wiegand Subject: Re: corn pollen (was Beginning of end...) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <199905122005_MC2-7586-D2F7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 742 >the plight of the Texas farmer, who as i understand the story, had >grown corn organically, processed it into tortilla chips >and sent them off to Europe. They were found to have been >contaminated, reportedly by genetic pollution according to the ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ farmer, and sent back - at enormous cost to the farmer. ^ ^ ^ ^ GENETIC pollution in the field is very unlikely. as far as i know, european scientists are debating a tolerance level of about 3 percent for the impurities. every value below is ignored as impurity, because the analytical tools (chromatography, sds-page and isozyme electrophoresis) are not that exact as many might expect (for seed certification we do it on 400 single seeds for % evaluation, but i have not the slightest idea, how institutes for food control analyse foodmixtures or processed food, it's certainly more difficult). add the statistical error 1. order and you should be somewhere near these 3 percent as analytical limit. polymerase chain reaction is out of question, because it is MUCH TOO sensitive for this kind of analysis and more a qualitative than a quantitative tool (and because of the high number of replicates needed also too expensive). it is MUCH more probably, that somewhere in the production chain someone (either the farmer hinself or the manufactorer of the chips) tried to make some "extra" money by mixing up the higher priced organic bulk with some cheap GM corn, hoping, that noone will find out. once trapped and being forced to carry it back you would expect them to confess their cheap trick ?? it is easier to shift it to genetic pollution in the field.. no ! 3 % (that is the smallest number to be rejected) pollution from a neighbor field are VERY unlikely for corn. from time to time i myself am confronted with these tricks. you ask the owner of the analytical sample, as it is evident and the first thing you hear, is a indignant denial. ask further and tell him, that you are no regulatory institute or the executive, and you'll hear a confession. really, i'm quite used to that and as our work as consultants depends on the confidence between us and the farmer, over time they learned, that none of them is sacked by our institute ! so they are quite frankly telling practical tricks. i'm sure, every consultant knows this problem very well. tell the police that a farmer told you, he is using an illegal antibioticum and next time you visit his farm, you are driven away with the fork... it would be interesting to see the analytical certificate (which would not give an exact number, but a range of pollution percentages like: "between x and y % impurity"). i found values for rape seed and they are quite low : ------- authors lefol e. danielou v. darmency h. predicting hybridization between transgenic oilseed rape and wild mustard field crops research. 45(1-3):153-161, 1996 may. abstract overlap between flowering of oilseed rape (brassica napus var. oleifera metzger)an wild mustard (sinapis arvensis l.), artificial hybridization between the two species, spontaneous crosses, and backcrossing were assessed to estimate the risk of escape of genes from transgenic crops towards the wild species. in the burgundy-ion of france, wild mustard flowers later than oilseed rape. exposure to cross pollination was two to five times greater with late-flowering cultivars than with early cultivars. artificial hybridizations using in vitro ovary culture produced up to 1 seed per 100 pollinated flowers. no hybrid was found among 2.9 million seeds produced by wild mustard grown in a garden in presence of a herbicide-resistant transgenic cultivar. no more than six hybrids were obtained from 50000 flowers of a male-sterile oilseed rape grown in presence of wild mustard. artificial hybrids grown in presence of wild mustard, or hand-crossed, produced a few aborted seeds. thus, in similar ''normal conditions'', it may be concluded that a flower of these two species has a probability smaller than 10(-10) of having an interspecific hybrid progeny. ----- if the farmer is an organic farmer it may be unlikely, that he is the source of contamination, if he ONLY grows organic corn. (but not impossible: cheap bulk from neighbor, contamination by a hired harvester aso. the last one happens quite often at "our" seed multipliers, but certainly not in the range of percents) which brings me to a question: is it allowed in america to separate his farm organisation and the fields into an organic part and and a conventional one under the obligation to separate the two parts and the grown fruit strictly ? >We don't know the pollination distances with certainty, although >they are known to be in km rather than meters for field-scale canola, >corn i'm sure, a breeder of hybrid corn will know these distances very well (in fact for seed certification he needs to know them and the possible cross pollination rate, because western europe seed law requires a maximum number of impurities for other varieties in certified seed) and the distances for seed production are certainly not in the range of more than 250 m for corn. pioneer multiplies a lot of corn in austria and hungary and i know the analyst from the neigbour institute, who some years ago did most of the crosspollination analyses for the hungarian seed multipliers. i'll try to ask him for more info. >We don't >know much of anything about allelic frequencies, dominance:recessive >relations, or many of the key parameters in the Bt resistance >question. Check out 1998 or 1999 refereed publications on the do you expect another pollination rate for gm corn than for conventional corn ? if so, why ? for rape it seems to be the same: ------ lefol e. fleury a. darmency h. gene dispersal from transgenic crops .2. hybridization between oilseed rape and the wild heavy mustard sexual plant reproduction. 9(4):189-196, 1996 jul. abstract the risk of release of genetically modified oilseed rape (brassica napus) was investigated in relation to interspecific gene flow with hoary mustard (hirschfeldia incana). microscopic studies showed polymorphism within the population of hoary mustard for pollen germination on oilseed rape flowers. the transgenic herbicide-resistant and a commercial cultivar of oilseed rape were not different for pollen behaviour and ovule fertilization. pollen tube growth was slow and erratic in interspecific crosses. fertilization efficiency of oilseed rape and hoary mustard pollen [..] ---- >unreliably, unpredictably, and unrepeatably. According to my breeder >colleagues, there is still no method of knowing in advance where in a >given chromosome, or even on which chromosome, a presumptive >transgene will land. >What this means, is that pollination distances would have to be >tested for each commercial GE event - not generalized over the whole >species. pollination is influenced by weight, number, fertility, maturity and "stickyness" of the pollen, by self incompatibility, size of the pistil and form of the petals and the "willingness" of the antheres to open, also by wind and by air humidity, by density of the plant stand and by the time from opening of the flower to pollen contact, color of corolla, extension of stamens and carpels and availablity of pollinators, but i do not believe it to be a factor of the position of the gm proteins in the genome.. so i'do not understand, what you want to explain with the sentence above. would you please explain ? some corn breeders reading here, who might share their knowledge ?? Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed May 12 21:38:29 1999 Received: from helios.oit.unc.edu (helios.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.81]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14496 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by helios.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA20170 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:30:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00067; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:27:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29935; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:27:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com (14413) by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7DBYa24050 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:07:02 EDT Subject: GMO testing To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 743 Let's continue the discussion: Hello, I recent conversations with J. Fagin the following was brought to my attention. There are at least 10 different tests that at that time had to be done for 10 different techniques of genetically engineering corn. Testing would possibly miss a GE product if one did not perform all the needed test. The EU at the time had indicated that a 2% GE within a sample was acceptable. John was working on a 1/2% GE within a sample. Lastly, I stand to be corrected in all this, but to my understanding, natural genetic modifications can give an indication of GE using some testing regimens. In the above, we are speaking of only a single type of seed, corn in this instance. What the testing regimen is for other seed and we might include plant products that are not seed remains to be stated. Actual human directed Genetically Engineered products: seeds, plants, bacteria, enzymes, processing aids, food additives have been recommend by the US National Organic Standards Board and the CODEX Committee on Food Labeling as being inconsistent with organic farming and handling and therefore prohibited in farming and handling "organically produced" products. As with everything in organic farming and handling, residue testing of the organic product is not the preferred method chosen for farmer and handler "compliance" with organic standards. In fact, it is the integrity of the certified farmer and handler in committing themselves publically to conform to applicable organic standards that has built the immense customer/farmer/handler trust within the organic consuming community. I would suggest, we will never really police food products of any kind, although specific instances of residue or GE testing is valuable to understand the baseline "unavoidable environmental residual contamination" and to identify and control purposeful deception of customers. So, where really does organic stand if GE living products become spread throught out the globe? I suggest that organic farmers and handlers will carry on with integrity following the public committment we have made to our customers. Spurious and uncontrollable GE penetration of a certified organic farm will have to be dealt with as "unavoidable environmental residual contamination" just as pesticides within the environment are considered so now. Within the certified organic handling operation however, there is absolutely no need to introduce synthetic (possible GE) food additives or processing aids. Furthermore, the US Organic Foods Production Act already prohibits any synthetic substance from being a part of or an ingredient in an "organically produced" products. So, if certified handling operations conform to OFPA, the only possible introductin of GE would happen on the farm itself. Regarding label identification of no GE, "organically produce" does now and intends to in the future stand publically for No Genetically Engineered food and fiber products. In a practical sense, we have a clear no GE label identity operating in the market place right now. Let us seek to maintain our faith and long term trust with organic customers of no GE farm and processed food products. Best regards, Eric Kindberg Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:08:03 -0500 From: "Wilson, Dale" Subject: GMO testing David and Steve, David DeCou wrote: > The definition for contamination of crops by GMO's within > Organic circles will have to be absolutely none detectable. Steve Sprinkel wrote: > On tolerances for contamination: I don't believe that there > are any. The easy way to handle this problem is just make the test insensitive. Most people understand so little about statistics and probability that they won't care. The easiest way to do that is to limit the number of kernels tested. > Dr. Fagin claims that the actual crop, in visible quantities > ( he suggested one cup of corn) would be the amount required > to determine GMO contamination. That will be sufficiently insensitive that plenty of corn will pass, but enough positives will occur to maintain a viable testing industry. David wrote: > Most of us in organic circles have come to realize that we should > not describe our products as pesticide-free because of inherent > background pesticide levels now existent practically everywhere... Same thing for GMO corn pollen. The problem with really stringent standards (ie. big samples) is that so many batches will fail the test that "GMO-free" grain will become very expensive. That might be good if you want to grow "organic" corn in the Gobi desert. Dale From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 21:52:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14643 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA29454 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:11:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA29248 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:11:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com (14413) by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7DBYa24050 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:07:02 EDT Subject: GMO testing To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 744 Let's continue the discussion: Hello, I recent conversations with J. Fagin the following was brought to my attention. There are at least 10 different tests that at that time had to be done for 10 different techniques of genetically engineering corn. Testing would possibly miss a GE product if one did not perform all the needed test. The EU at the time had indicated that a 2% GE within a sample was acceptable. John was working on a 1/2% GE within a sample. Lastly, I stand to be corrected in all this, but to my understanding, natural genetic modifications can give an indication of GE using some testing regimens. In the above, we are speaking of only a single type of seed, corn in this instance. What the testing regimen is for other seed and we might include plant products that are not seed remains to be stated. Actual human directed Genetically Engineered products: seeds, plants, bacteria, enzymes, processing aids, food additives have been recommend by the US National Organic Standards Board and the CODEX Committee on Food Labeling as being inconsistent with organic farming and handling and therefore prohibited in farming and handling "organically produced" products. As with everything in organic farming and handling, residue testing of the organic product is not the preferred method chosen for farmer and handler "compliance" with organic standards. In fact, it is the integrity of the certified farmer and handler in committing themselves publically to conform to applicable organic standards that has built the immense customer/farmer/handler trust within the organic consuming community. I would suggest, we will never really police food products of any kind, although specific instances of residue or GE testing is valuable to understand the baseline "unavoidable environmental residual contamination" and to identify and control purposeful deception of customers. So, where really does organic stand if GE living products become spread throught out the globe? I suggest that organic farmers and handlers will carry on with integrity following the public committment we have made to our customers. Spurious and uncontrollable GE penetration of a certified organic farm will have to be dealt with as "unavoidable environmental residual contamination" just as pesticides within the environment are considered so now. Within the certified organic handling operation however, there is absolutely no need to introduce synthetic (possible GE) food additives or processing aids. Furthermore, the US Organic Foods Production Act already prohibits any synthetic substance from being a part of or an ingredient in an "organically produced" products. So, if certified handling operations conform to OFPA, the only possible introductin of GE would happen on the farm itself. Regarding label identification of no GE, "organically produce" does now and intends to in the future stand publically for No Genetically Engineered food and fiber products. In a practical sense, we have a clear no GE label identity operating in the market place right now. Let us seek to maintain our faith and long term trust with organic customers of no GE farm and processed food products. Best regards, Eric Kindberg Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:08:03 -0500 From: "Wilson, Dale" Subject: GMO testing David and Steve, David DeCou wrote: > The definition for contamination of crops by GMO's within > Organic circles will have to be absolutely none detectable. Steve Sprinkel wrote: > On tolerances for contamination: I don't believe that there > are any. The easy way to handle this problem is just make the test insensitive. Most people understand so little about statistics and probability that they won't care. The easiest way to do that is to limit the number of kernels tested. > Dr. Fagin claims that the actual crop, in visible quantities > ( he suggested one cup of corn) would be the amount required > to determine GMO contamination. That will be sufficiently insensitive that plenty of corn will pass, but enough positives will occur to maintain a viable testing industry. David wrote: > Most of us in organic circles have come to realize that we should > not describe our products as pesticide-free because of inherent > background pesticide levels now existent practically everywhere... Same thing for GMO corn pollen. The problem with really stringent standards (ie. big samples) is that so many batches will fail the test that "GMO-free" grain will become very expensive. That might be good if you want to grow "organic" corn in the Gobi desert. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 22:05:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA14830 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA28678 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:10:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA28663 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:10:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com (14413) by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7ZKTa16238 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <29f509db.246b7fbb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:07:07 EDT Subject: organic taking over UK market To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 745 Misha indicates and I offer some comments: For instance, think of the number of organic inspectors it would require simply to inspect the acreage that would provide that supply and the plants that would process it. As I understand from the inspectors I know or work with, certifiers have a hard enough time at present keeping a full cadre of inspectors at existing levels. Eric: Inspectors are basically bureaucrats, individuals that are trained and have a specific job description to fulfill in the interest of citizens. We have an immense core of Farm Service agents, of USDA staff of Federal Meat inspectors, of FDA and USDA compliance officers, of State compliance officers in every range of raw and processed food and fiber products. Beyond that we have a private sector of inspectors and inspector training that can contracted by government agents so they know the ins and outs of the organic inspection and certification world. As the organic business grows every larger, the only impediment I see is vested interest. The organic buying public certainly wants trustworthy annual inspection and certification. Let's do it. I've predicted, here on SANET and elsewhere, that inspection may prove to be an increasingly difficult link in the organic system, over time, unless training and professional development of these people is ramped up as well as the market share and acreage. Then I think of the acres and number of farms that would need to make the transition in that time. The expertise and consulting they would need. The equipment. The inputs. The economic risk that some would need to take and live with and survive. The markets that would need to be constructed. The marketing information that would need to be prepared. The consumers who'd need to be cultivated (I'm not convinced that 80% of the present population will come around to organics) and educated. Eric There is no rush to organic farm beyond what the system if planned by all the stakeholders cannot accomplish in due time. Average age of US farmers bordering mostly 55, it is the next generation of beginning organic farmers who are our concern. The ag universities and research institutes are completely unprepared to make the change to organic farming and handling. It is now time for them to retain on contract those who have built the organic systems of farming and handling in a job description that frees they to carry on development of farming, handling and marketing innovations. If we really want to move food and fiber farming and handling to pure food and fiber farming and handling, the time is ripe, Students, all of us need to back a concerted and stakeholder directed change in public strategy and tactics-now. And then Ronald's question--could we maintain the standards? Maintaining standards is what the producer/inspector relationship is about...but at bottom, isn't that a somewhat policed thing (standards)? Eric: US standards are mandated to be established through NOSB, National Organic Standards Board recommendations to the Secretary of Agriculture. As long as we are all involved, and the Final NOSB Recommendations are open to timely public review before they are made, organic standards will reflect our common consensus. But perhaps it takes a raising of the bar to figure out how to hop over it. And so...I'd like to hear from some organic growers and processors and inspectors on this question. Any takers? Best, Eric Kindberg, certified organic farmer, SE Iowa Thinking out loud, quickly, and heading out the door to the soft, rainy, lilac-scented May evening in Madison. peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 22:08:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA14895 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:08:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA13497 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:31:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA13384 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA17034 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:33:39 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:28:02 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.198] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1463243c ; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:27:36 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990512202840.007944c0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:28:40 -0500 To: From: Mike Miller Subject: Re: Canada: Monsanto Investigators Accused of Trespas In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 746 Sounds like a good candidate for Jury Nullification of the court proceedings. Mike Miller At 15:08 11-05-99 -0600, you wrote: > >"Basically you've got trespassing and you've got theft." > > >Monsanto Investigators Accused of Trespassing > >By Rick Weiss >Washington Post Staff Writer >Sunday, May 2, 1999; Page A26 > >Private investigators working for Monsanto, the St. Louis-based >agricultural company, trespassed on a Canadian farmer's property and >surreptitiously obtained samples of his harvested seeds from a local mill >to gather evidence for a lawsuit against him, according to newly released >court documents and interviews with company officials and others. > >The revelations have reignited a bitter controversy over Monsanto's >ongoing pursuit of farmers who have allegedly saved and replanted the >company's high-tech, genetically engineered seeds after harvest. Monsanto >has a policy of precluding growers from saving seeds from those crops, >demanding instead that they buy fresh seed every year. > >The farmer, Percy Schmeiser of Bruno, Saskatchewan, is one of hundreds of >growers that Monsanto has tracked down in the United States and Canada >during the past year for allegedly violating the company's ban on saving >the patented seeds. > >But while the vast majority of farmers approached by Monsanto have paid >fines and agreed to allow the company to inspect their fields for years to >come, Schmeiser last year became something of a folk hero in Canada by >fighting back against the multinational giant. He has gained the support >of environmental groups and others around the world who oppose corporate >restrictions on seed saving, which many subsistence farmers depend upon >for survival. > >Monsanto claims that Schmeiser knowingly grew, harvested and replanted >seeds of the company's genetically enhanced "Roundup Ready" canola. The >variety is tolerant to Roundup, Monsanto's popular weedkiller, allowing >farmers to spray the herbicide freely without worrying about harming the >crop itself. > >Schmeiser has claimed that if any Roundup Ready canola was growing on his >land, it was the result of cross pollination from neighbors' fields or >from seeds blowing off other trucks after the previous year's harvest. > >Monsanto's case is based largely upon DNA tests conducted on plants from >Schmeiser's fields in 1998. According to the company, those tests prove >that fully 900 acres were planted with Roundup Ready canola -- far more >than could be expected from windblown contamination. > >The company gathered the plant samples after obtaining a court order >granting permission to go onto Schmeiser's land. But court documents >filed April 22 by Schmeiser's lawyer, Terry Zakreski of Saskatoon, make >public for the first time some of the questionable evidence-gathering >tactics used by Monsanto before it was granted that court order. > >In testimony filed with the Federal Court of Canada -- part of Zakreski's >motion to dismiss the case -- a Monsanto representative reports that >private investigators hired by the company in 1997 trespassed on >Schmeiser's property to snip plant samples for DNA testing. > >Moreover, according to the documents and interviews, a Monsanto >representative approached an employee of the Humboldt Flour Mill, where >Schmeiser brought his harvested seeds for cleaning, and asked for a sample >of his harvest for DNA testing. The mill's manager at the time, Gary >Pappenpoot, complied after checking with his boss -- a decision, he said >Friday, he now regrets. > >"Basically you've got trespassing and you've got theft," Schmeiser said. >"As my wife said, if I went down to Monsanto's headquarters in St. Louis >and trespassed or took a piece of paper out of that building I'm sure I'd >end up in jail." > >Philip Angell, Monsanto's director of corporate communications, disputed >the allegations against the company. Despite the sworn testimony, he >said, it is still not completely clear that the investigators in 1997 >actually crossed Schmeiser's property line. Even if they did, he said, >trespassing is neither a criminal nor a civil offense in Saskatchewan -- a >legal interpretation Zakreski disputes. > >Angell also said -- and Pappenpoot confirmed -- that the Humboldt mill >routinely saved samples of farmers' seeds in case questions arose later >about contamination or mix-ups. Angell said Monsanto attorneys were now >trying to determine whether those saved samples technically still belonged >to Schmeiser or to the mill, which would then have the right to share them >with anyone it chose to. > >In any case, Angell said, neither the disputed 1997 DNA test results nor >the flour mill samples were used by the company to get its court order for >the more extensive field testing it conducted in 1998. The company >believes that those early tests would have been admissible in court, he >said, but they did not meet the company's high ethical standards. > >Angell said Monsanto now has a written policy that precludes its hired >investigators from trespassing to gather evidence. > >C Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 12 23:18:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA16056 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 23:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA22364 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:28:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA22249 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:28:07 -0500 Message-ID: <199905122126480820.029E8180@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:26:48 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Bob MacGregor" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA22274 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 747 Hi Bob, I thought you gave a reasonable reply. What I tried to stress in a stressed out post was that the methodology used for the human intervention is suspect. Human intervention per se is not bad in my book. In fact, in my book we're right in there - that's precisely our role. This means that what we do and the way we do it is of the utmost importance. By the same token, making value judgements is also right where it's at. But the criteria that's used is what counts. Human choice in breeding is only right, BUT - the nature (and therefore, historical and biological investment, trajectory, evolution, identity and also - will) of the organism involved is just as important (if not more) as that if the "breeder" (the word itself has a double meaning - the party or part that's really doing the breeding is the genetic part). Therefore, genetic crosses MAY be good, while GMO's are inherently bad except as needed (really needed) to compensate for a worse condition, such as a rare and inherent defect. I see no over riding public good for the use of GMO's where a clear need for them has not been demonstrated, in the face of so many unanswered and potentially dangerous scenarios that no one nor his brother can say with any certainty are out of question. It's just not worth the collective risk and that is why Monsanto and others stand to lose they gamble THEY took - which was a monetary gamble designed to produce a monetary gain. So they are going to lose their monetary shirts and are already getting their monetary and moral asses kicked. The science part of it a little harder to prove at this point - the good thing is that people are really waking up - especially outside of the U.S. But this is not to say that being opposed to GMO's is equivalent to being awake. And there are differing degrees and levels of being awake and / or being asleep. It's a matter of what's appropriate. In short: It's not a question of whether or not human intervention is or isn't pervasive or good. It's a question of HOW to intervene: Different strokes for different folks, but the RIGHT storks, folks, that's what counts. That's all for now, boys and girls. (Take offense, those that care to. But no offense made or intended). SEZ ME (and it's my post). I wasn't going to post this but it clears up some of what was behind my earlier posts re this thing. DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/05/99 at 3:25 PM Bob MacGregor wrote: >Jane, >>>we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow ourselves to see them. > >The Monsanto's of the world have seen the universe of natural alternatives -- the entire genetic complement of nature. > >It is far off-base, in my opinion, to say that we should work with what nature has given us without recognizing how dramatically humans have already altered the raw material. The vast majority of ag. crops are very far from their "natural" ancestors. Most of them could not persist without human intervention to protect them from competitors. Calling this co-evolution isn't quite right, given the intentional directing of the path of ag. plant and animal characteristics. To me, tapeworms, viruses and bacteria, etc. have co-evolved. The gut flora and fauna in ruminants represent an excellent coevolution example; not corn, wheat or cotton. >With few exceptions, our ag. research establishment does a very haphazard job of risk assessment of conventional technologies. A notable exception I know of is the measurement of solanine in new potato varieties (NOT done in all jurisdictions, by the way). > We do a lot better at risk assessment for pesticides than we do for new crop varieties -- including non-GE -- it isn't safe to assume that novel characteristics will not appear in normal, sexual recombination -- the arguments about unpredictability of gene location and expression in GE are equally valid for conventional breeding. So far, at least, the ag. GE folks are using naturally-occuring genes; they haven't synthesized completely novel ones to any degree. For many years, plant breeders have used chemical and radiation treatments to induce random mutations in plants, then screened for "improved" characteristics to breed into commercial lines; this mimics natural processes, but are these alleles "synthetic"; are they dangerous? Who assesses the risk of letting them loose in fields? > >The socio-political question has been with us for years and will likely stay around for a while. As long as we are not willing to give away food to people who cannot produce all they need (or afford to pay for it), some will starve while others are paid not to produce. Eventually, truly "improved" production technology will be needed. By improved, I mean sustainable -- including energy inputs. In my view, this sustainable system will include plants and animals with transgenic characteristics. > >Based on the amount of GE food being produced and consumed in North America, we should know pretty soon from epidemiologic evidence whether there are significant, obvious deleterious effects of these foodstuffs on human health. Ecosystem health concerns will require attention; in any case, the detection of RR or Bt genes in, say a wild mustard isn't evidence of ecological harm -- so, ecological researchers will have careers in trying to detect evidence of impacts of gene escape from their more holistic field studies. >There will be impacts, though I expect most of them to be related to the human/plant interaction -- ie, weeds, Bt resistance, etc. -- than to wild ecosystem effects, since most of these genes are unlikely to confer competitive advantage on the wild plants that express the genes. > >I'm with Dale in believing that significant adverse health effects from ag. GMOs are unlikely; I would be surprised by them. I'm also with Ann in saying I'd rather not be surprised. Given the current controversy, the prudent course is to intensify government-sponsored, or, at least, government-supervised safety assessments for GE. This technology can never be "proven" safe; a growing body of negative evidence of harm would go a long way to allaying fears, though. And, such research would provide the safety of early warning, in the off-chance that there are harmful effects (a la DDT, Thalidomide, etc.) lurking in the technology. >Keep the pressure on for study that is insulated from corporate self-interest. When a red flag --like the Puztai results -- pops up, efforts to replicate and verify the conclusions need to be started right away (instead of just accepting the results as proven or, alternatively, explaining them away as the result of experimental flaws -- depending on your pre-existing bias). >I accept that many of the arguments against GE have theoretical basis in biology; except for pest resistance (which is pretty much guaranteed, eventually, whether GE is involved or not), I haven't seen evidence that these harmful effects are likely to occur or persist. Obviously, I'm not ready to give up on GE just because it involves human intervention in the reshuffling of naturally-occuring genomes; I am eager to see that the result of this technology is screened adequately for safety -- as should be done for products of conventional breeding programs. I'd also like to have a better idea of the _relative_ riskiness of GE foods compared to pesticides in food, bacterial contamination, or any of a number of risk factors --> I don't want to fret excessively over a real, but minutely-small danger while overlooking a much bigger issue. Right now, we are ill-equipped to say which is which -- and, as Ann rightly points out, relatively little effort is going into helping k! e! >! >ep us better-informed of levels of risk. > >BOB > ! ! >! > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 01:52:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA17842 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA25867 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 00:44:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.ppi-far.org (mail.ppi-far.org [198.78.10.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA25842 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 00:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 13 May 1999 00:44:41 -0400 Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from ibm770 (206.185.4.173::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 13 May 1999 00:44:33 -0400 From: "Harold Reetz" To: Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:43:45 -0500 Message-ID: <002a01be9cfb$2f2aa1c0$cba7fea9@ibm770> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <199905121703.NAA08663@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 748 After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I find it difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" that are included in this "list" without responding. It appears that this is really a forum for the anti-science, anti-industry people to post their ideas and their attacks on science and industry. Comments such as the importance of "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have made in agriculture has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be a general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about GMOs and other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. I had hoped this was a forum for a more balanced discussion and assessment of facts. I guess that is asking too much. But I am concerned about the comments that the new technologies in agriculture are creating hazards and quality problems when there is no evidence to support such claims. Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember in the "good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not nearly so much a result of technology as it is our nations desire to have cheap, abundant and healthy food. We use technology to accomplish that better than any other nation in the world. Our success makes it possible for 98% of our population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for the science and technology and the large-scale intensive production systems we have implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who do grow it. I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and disease problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. Doing it with GMOs, with cultural practices, and overall systems management, we have a great story to tell. There is apparently a certain population who feel obliged to attack progress. They fought pesticides and when we replaced pesticide use with GMOs, many of the same people jumped from the anti-pesticide bandwagon to the anti-GMO bandwagon. Another comment in this thread points out that many of the world's food problems are political, rather than production problems. That is true. And the kind of discussions this thread is fostering help to support those political problems. There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. Dennis has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of technology, much more of the world's natural forest ecosystems would be turned into food production. Our high yield management systems in the US can do much more to help save the rain forests and deserts and to protect fragile ecosystems than any other option we have before us. Most of our food crops could not survive in nature. Most of our agriculture could not survive without continuous infusion of technology. It is our success with technology that gives us the abundance and efficiency that allows more people to NOT be involved in food production. I doubt that you will find a large percentage of the 98% non-producers who would trade their life styles with going back to producing their own food. Maybe instead of complaining about the direction of this list, I should just remove my name from it. For now, thanks for letting me vent my concerns. Harold Reetz Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research 111 East Washington Street Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 Phone: 217-762-2074 FAX: 217-762-8655 e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 12:03 PM To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, May 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1012 In this issue: RE: information and extension's role Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy health insurance FW: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste Credit where credit is due department ... Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE Re: health insurance Re: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK New book on community-supported agriculture (CSA) Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:31:51 -0500 From: Andrew McGuire Subject: RE: information and extension's role Thank you Bill for your post. I agree with it and support your position. As a relative newcomer to extension, I have learned quickly that any questions about where the technology will lead us is soon countered with "that is your opinion" or "stick to science-based information." The idea that we can present information with no values attached, the neutral science argument, seems to be prevalent in extension. I believe that it is impossible to not bring in values to our work. If we try to eliminate values, then they will sneak into the vacuum and we have values by default, which are the worst kind, because we do not even recognize them. Here in Nebraska, there is lots of talk about listening to the people and designing an extension program to serve their needs. Well, it seems to me that the land grant universities have been doing that for many years and rural areas, at least the rural area I live in, has been declining in turn. Maybe it is because extension, even more so than the population they serve, resists the change needed to make real progress in those areas that come up over and over in their need assessments, such as ag profitability, rural quality of life, and natural resource conservation. Extension and the university see themselves as mainstream and mainstreet, and so find it hard to take any action that will direct them away from the current food system, Walmart, and McDonalds. Again, I concur with what Bill has said, we must decide where we want to go, then decide which tools have the most potential to take us there, and use them. Respectfully, Andy McGuire, Extension Educator AMCGUIRE1@UNL.EDU P.O. Box 736 office 402-254-2280 Hartington NE 68739 fax 402-254-6891 University of Nebraska Cooperative Extension On Tuesday, May 11, 1999 6:18 PM, Bill Liebhardt [SMTP:wcliebhardt@ucdavis.edu] wrote: > > As a native of Wisconsin I found the posts of Julie and Laura raising > questions that are at the core of what it is to be in the land grant system > and what our role is in developing information and getting it out. I have > often raised questions about where we are going with GMO's and that whole > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:37:01 +0000 From: "Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE)" Subject: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK Dear All, I am currently conducting research into the CSA experience in the US, with a view to looking at whether the principle would translate to the UK farming system. Through conducting various word searches on the internet I have managed to obtain some very interesting background information on the CSA experience in US, this included articles by Robyn Van En, UMass and MISA. I am also in the process of obtaining a report entitled "Facing a Watershed: Managing Profitable and Sustainable Landscapes in the 21st Century" from the University of Nebraska, and also a report which showcases ten years of SARE entitled "Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress" from Andy Clark Ph.D, at the National Agricultural Library, Beltsville, MD. Do you know of any other reports/publications that provide an overview of the CSA experience in the US so far?. Highlights, problems, legalities etc. (I already hold details of UMass Extension reading list, shown on the website). If applicable I would also be grateful if you could point me in the direction of any actual or planned research that considers the translation of the CSA approach to the UK farming system. I have searched the internet for UK examples but as yet have had no luck. Thank you very much for your assistance. Kind Regards Paul PAUL COOK Farming & Forestry Branch Countryside Agency John Dower House Crescent Place Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL50 3RA England UK To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:53:40 -0800 From: colibri@west.net Subject: Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods MADRID, Spain, May 11, 1999 (ENS) - Spain's largest supermarket chain, Pryca, announced Monday that it is phasing out the use of genetically modified (GM) ingredients in own-brand food products sold in its 58 stores. Genetically modified foodstuffs include some varieties of soy beans, canola oil, corn, cottonseed oil, potatoes, squash and tomatoes. Describing the decision as "a response to public fears," a Pryca spokesperson said that the company had instructed suppliers to stop using GM ingredients in products which carry the company trademark by the end of this year. Carrefour, the supermarket giant which owns the largest shareholding in Pryca, has already introduced a similar measure in its French stores. Pryca's decision was described by the Spanish Consumers' Union as "a marketing exercise" and "ineffective because GM ingredients are so widespread and difficult to identify." Laurate canola is a proprietary product marketed by Calgene Oils under the brand name LAURICAL(r). Approved in the U.S. and Canada, it is used in confectionery coatings, coffee whiteners, icings and whipped toppings as well as in soaps. However, Diego Herranz of the environmental group Ecologists in Action welcomed the move and said his organisation expected the decision to cause "a chain reaction against GM ingredients." The group has been pressing for a similar undertaking from other major Spanish food retailers. Marks and Spencer Espaqa and Nestli Espaqa said that their companies' policy was neither to sell nor produce foods containing genetically-modified ingredients. Spain is the biggest importer of GM soya and the European Union's only significant producer of GM maize. Some 19,000 hectares of GM maize (corn) were planted last year, according to government figures. The upper house of the Spanish parliament today begins debating a new law on the production and sale of foods which will include the issue of genetically modified ingredients. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:57:59 -0600 From: Jane Sooby Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Dear Bart, Your observations are very timely and to the point. Dale used the industry arguments that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain medications; grains will be designed to have particular nutritional compositions; etc. Does this approach strike anyone else as back-asswards? Is not the bounty of nature enough to suit our needs? Have we not co-evolved with the plants and animals that share this planet with us? Even the Avery-esque arguments about increasing yields with intensive chemical production techniques fail when you consider that hunger is such a political phenomenon, a result of mis-distribution rather than low production. The blinders that result in tunnel vision are firmly in place in many sectors of society, and agriculture is certainly no exception. Yes, friends, we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow ourselves to see them. How about using an ecological approach, working with the cycles of nature, the complex dynamics of soil, and the miraculous natural capabilities of plants to attempt to improve the nutritional value of our food and feed by utilizing what is already there? Sir Albert Howard was advocating such a holistic approach 50 years ago or more. The simple answer is that the profit potential from this approach is very limited as it relies not on chemical or biotechnological inputs but on intensive system management, therefore industry would not be very interested in it. But what is really important: profit or authentically feeding and nourishing the world? Learning how apathetic the majority of American consumers are compared to their European counterparts is discouraging. Without external pressure from consumers, industry is free to set the terms of discussion and sell the illusion that maximizing control of natural processes is equivalent to maximizing human benefit. I dispute this equation. >We are so slow to learn. >Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the >degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years >after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA >alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which >misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to >disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the >1930s. You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. Jane Sooby University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer High Plains Ag Lab 3257 Rd. 109 Sidney, NE 69162 308-254-3918 308-254-2402 (FAX) 308-254-0725 (HOME) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 17:36:46 -0500 From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: health insurance Mark was looking for information on health insurance for farmers.... National Farmers Union offers health insurance, usually through its state affiliates. They have a website where you can access the state offices - I think MA has one, Mark. The National Farmers Union is a progressive, grass roots family farm organization concerned about all aspects of life on farms and all members of farm families. There are sister NFUs in other countries, as well. Here in the US, NFU started in Point, Texas in 1903. In the 40s / 50s it worked with the Highlander Institute. The organization has benefited family farmers since its beginning as a voice in the national and state policy arenas, in helpping farmers start cooperatives, and keeping its members and their children educated on farm issues. I went through the youth program, where I learned how to start a coop, self-govern, and write my legislators, and where I learned about concentration in agriculture and corporate control of the food system. Lots of the organic growers in Wisconsin purchase their insurance through Farmers Union. NFU also participates in the Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture. The NFU site, which represents 300,000 US family farmers and ranchers in 24 states, takes on farmers' issues and legislation from the average farmer's point of view. The organization also works for rural community legislation. You can find out about the organization, browse the newsletter, and have a look at the issues it is currently dealing with. Included is a state-by-state organization directory. The URL is http://www.nfu.org. Progressive Farmer listed this as a "best of the internet" site. Best - Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:42:08 -0700 From: "Lon J. Rombough" Subject: FW: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste - ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste Date: Wed, May 12, 1999, 6:58 AM STORY LEAD: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste - ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 12, 1999 Doris Stanley Lowe, (301) 893-6727, dstanley@asrr.arsusda.gov - ----------- Changing the levels of a key hormone in tomatoes could lead to fruit that tastes better and lasts longer, Agricultural Research Service scientists report. Research shows such a tomato to be only a few years away. ARS plant physiologist Jerry D. Cohen and colleagues have genetically altered the levels of auxin, a hormone which causes a tomato to grow and ripen. It's the best known-and probably the most important-of the five major plant hormones. Scientists have been studying auxin for more than 120 years. They've been able to change auxin levels, but the changes were expressed throughout the plant, not just in the fruit. The aim is to control the hormone production so that it can be introduced into specific, targeted tissues--such as the fruit-- without affecting the growth processes in other parts of the plant. At the ARS Horticultural Crops Quality Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., Cohen and colleagues inserted a backwards copy of iaglu-a gene from corn-into a tomato to turn this gene off. Because the gene was put in with a fruit-specific promoter, only the tomato fruit was affected. The resultant fruit ripened more slowly. This work is in collaboration with scientists in the ARS Climate Stress Laboratory in Beltsville. ARS is the chief scientific agency in the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Another plus for auxin: Decreasing the gene's level of expression throughout receptor plants caused them to easily form large numbers of roots from cuttings and spurred rapid root growth in germinating seedlings. This could be significant for plants that are difficult to root from cuttings and could increase the survival rate of seeds planted in dry soils. Cohen expects this research to produce a store-bought tomato with vine-ripened taste in about 3 years. ---------- Scientific contact: Jerry D. Cohen, ARS Horticultural Crops Quality Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (703) 306-1442, fax (703) 306-0355, jdcohen@NSF.gov (on detail to the National Science Foundation until October 1999). - ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:52:00 +0100 From: "Bluestem Associates" Subject: Credit where credit is due department ... On Wed, 12 May 1999 08:57:59 -0600, Jane Sooby wrote: >>Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the >>degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years >>after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA >>alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which >>misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to >>disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the >>1930s. > >You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. For those not familiar with it, this "knowledge" is the result of work by David Pimentel, entomologist at Cornell. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:30:54 -0700 From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE The May 7, 1999 Science has a critical article on the genetics of Bt resistance in European corn borer (F. Huang, L.L. Buschman, Higgins, McGaughey, "Inheritance of Resistance to Bt Toxin (Dipel ES) in the ECB," page 965-967). The new finding is that one or a few genes account for resistance observed in the lab, and that the gene is "incompletely dominant autosomal." Heretofore, most people thought the gene was recessive; the high dose/refugia resistance management strategy depends upon this gene being recessive. The author's state that if their finding holds, there will be need to rethink ECB resistance management plans. BTW, this is a good example of the scientific surprises that can be expected as we move into the ag biotech era. This is part because genetic changes unleashed across millions of acres (or in a backyard) can cause so many horrendously complex secondary and tertiary responses in ecosystems, and secondarily because the science has not been done -- Ann Clark's point that there has been a systematic effort to NOT look under certain rocks. Wouldn't one think that the genetics of resistance in the ECB would be a subject of serious analysis well before 20 million acres are being planted in the U.S. corn belt. But clearly it was not; it is my sense (someone correct me if I am wrong) that the work these scientists did could have been done before had the funding and commitment been present to look under that rock. For the non-geneticists among us, would someone please post a lay-person's explanation of what an "incompletely dominant autosomal gene" is; along with an explanation of why this matters so much in designing a resistance management strategy. If someone would be willing to talk me through it, I'll write it up for the list. Another relatively urgent request -- I am working on an assessment of the ECB Bt-corn resistance management plan that is under EPA review now. I, and others, need very quick help on a key issue. What insects spend some time in corn fields, and might develop resistance to Bt, that in other life-stages spend time in fruit and vegetable crops where growers are now largely reliant on foliar Bts for Lepidopteran control? If you know of people who have thought about this and could help create a list, and provide some sense of the potential for insect migration carrying resistance genes into other regions, please be in touch. I am willing to provide a modest level of $$ for anyone that can turn something out quickly (i.e. about 2 weeks). I will also eventually share what we learn with the list. So you bug-flow experts out there, please be in touch. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:56:15 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor Subject: Re: health insurance Insurers are usually a pretty hard-nose, practical bunch who stick to what their actuarial tables tell them. I was idly wondering whether organic farmers might get a lower insurance rate (for health or life insurance) than conventional, chemical farmers. If the actuarial tables suggest that the risk of health affects is less for organic farmers, lower rates would certainly be justified. On the other hand, maybe the risk of injury or death from machinery use is so overwhelming (relatively speaking) that it masks any effect of chemical exposure. Does anyone on the list know? BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:59:32 -0400 From: Susan Smalley Subject: Re: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK Paul, Your inquiry provides a wonderful opportunity to share a new publication with you and the SANET world -- The Many Faces of Community Supported Agriculture (CSA): A Guide to Community Supported Agriculture in Indiana, Michigan, & Ohio. The guide profiles CSA farms, their philosophy and activitey within all three states. "Many Faces" is the result of a year-long collaborative effort among the Michigan Organic Food and Farm Alliance (MOFFA), the Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association (OEFFA), and Sustainable Earth, Inc., and was supported by a Professional Development Program grant from the North Central Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Extension program (NCR SARE). Dr. Laura Delind, anthropologist and CSA member, coordinated the project and edited the 107-page book. Each of the 35 CSA's it profiles is unique, and reading about them is a great way to get "the feel" of CSA life and meet the people who are involved. They share both the opportunities and the challenges they have experienced. Copies of the book have been sent to county Extension offices in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. Additional copies are available for $10/copy including shipping and handling, from MOFFA, PO Box 530, Hartland, MI 48353, 810-632-7952; OEFFA, PO Box 82234, Columbus, OH 43202, 614-267-3663; Sustainable Earth, Inc., 100 Georgeton Ct., West Lafayette, IN 47906, 765-463-9366. You may also contact Dr. DeLind directly at delind@pilot.msu.edu or 517-355-7490. Susan B. Smalley Extension Specialist Sustainable Food & Farming Systems smalley@msue.msu.edu Michigan State University 517-432-0049 Voice Department of Crop & Soil Sciences 517-353-3834 Fax 270 Plant & Soil Science Building East Lansing, MI 48824-1325 >02:37 PM 5/12/99 +0000, Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE) wrote: >Dear All, > >I am currently conducting research into the CSA experience in the US, with a >view to looking at whether the principle would translate to the UK farming >system. >Do you know of any other reports/publications that provide an overview of the >CSA experience in the US so far?. Highlights, problems, legalities etc. > >PAUL COOK >Farming & Forestry Branch >Countryside Agency >John Dower House >Crescent Place >Cheltenham >Gloucestershire >GL50 3RA >England >UK To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:05:32 -0400 From: Andy Clark Subject: New book on community-supported agriculture (CSA) Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:51:30 -0500 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Helen Husher Subject: new book on community-supported agriculture Sharing the Harvest: A Guide to Community-Supported Agriculture A new guide to community-supported agriculture is now available, written in part by Robyn Van En, who founded Induan Line Farm, the first community-supported farm in The United States, and in part by Elizabeth Henderson, co-author of The Real Dirt and a leader in community-supported agriculture, or CSA, for more than a decade. Sharing the Harvest questions what it means to have grapes from Chile, apples from New Zealand, and tomatoes from Holland in U.S. grocery stores. Fresh food can be surprisingly difficult to find in our culture of abundance, and the search for it is close to the heart of the CSA movement. CSA allows consumers to buy shares in a farm's produce before it is planted, thus giving the farmer cash flow when cash is needed; the CSA model also allows farmers to work directly with consumers, allowing more of the consumer food dollar to stay on the local farm. Sharing the Harvest offers case histories, pointers, models, and strategies for starting and running a CSA. The risks and satisfactions of production, labor, and management vary greatly from farm to farm, and the book captures the wide range of choices available to people interested in starting a CSA operation. With charts, photos, and a resource section, Sharing the Harvest is for anyone interested in alternative farming. The book, which is the product of a partnership with Northeast SARE and Chelsea Green Publishing, can be ordered from Chelsea Green at 800/639-4099. ************************************* Helen Husher Writer/Editor Northeast Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) Program Hills Building -- Carrigan Drive University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405-0082 Phone: 802-656-0554 Fax: 802-656-4656 ************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:58:58 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy I haven't been giving full attention to this thread. The "value added" logic of those who support / defend the use of GMO's in daily life (rather to correct serious pathologies in limited situations) ignores the counter-evolutionary and invasive implications of the **methodology** (emphasis intended) and the discrepancy between intrinsic and implied ("added") value. The problem is intensified as GMO's themselves reproduce genetically, what didn't begin genetically (at least in that species). The crux of the issue is that of accountability, risk calculation and the where the burden of evidence should lie. With DDT and cigarettes, the promoters also denied any negative results and many deaths occurred as a result, before the record was set straight. The GMO issue is both more complex and more insidious. No agreement will be reached as the motivation behind the promoting group is clearly mercenary, despite the veil of "value added". The only solution will be legislative and since legislators themselves are generated by (and therefore subject to) marketing and the public's response, and therefore: Someone's ass WILL have to get kicked, and the sooner the better. I will not respond to further comments on this thread (for now). *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/05/99 at 8:57 AM Jane Sooby wrote: >Dear Bart, > >Your observations are very timely and to the point. Dale used the industry >arguments that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic >manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain medications; >grains will be designed to have particular nutritional compositions; etc. > >Does this approach strike anyone else as back-asswards? Is not the bounty of >nature enough to suit our needs? Have we not co-evolved with the plants and >animals that share this planet with us? Even the Avery-esque arguments about >increasing yields with intensive chemical production techniques fail when >you consider that hunger is such a political phenomenon, a result of >mis-distribution rather than low production. > >The blinders that result in tunnel vision are firmly in place in many >sectors of society, and agriculture is certainly no exception. Yes, friends, >we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow ourselves to see >them. How about using an ecological approach, working with the cycles of >nature, the complex dynamics of soil, and the miraculous natural >capabilities of plants to attempt to improve the nutritional value of our >food and feed by utilizing what is already there? Sir Albert Howard was >advocating such a holistic approach 50 years ago or more. > >The simple answer is that the profit potential from this approach is very >limited as it relies not on chemical or biotechnological inputs but on >intensive system management, therefore industry would not be very interested >in it. > >But what is really important: profit or authentically feeding and nourishing >the world? Learning how apathetic the majority of American consumers are >compared to their European counterparts is discouraging. Without external >pressure from consumers, industry is free to set the terms of discussion and >sell the illusion that maximizing control of natural processes is equivalent >to maximizing human benefit. I dispute this equation. > >>We are so slow to learn. > >>Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the >>degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years >>after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA >>alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which >>misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to >>disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the >>1930s. > >You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. > >Jane Sooby > >University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician >Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer > >High Plains Ag Lab >3257 Rd. 109 >Sidney, NE 69162 > >308-254-3918 >308-254-2402 (FAX) >308-254-0725 (HOME) > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 ******************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 03:03:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA18555 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 03:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA07229 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:50:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA07221 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 01:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.97]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 00:55:08 -0500 Message-ID: <373A67D7.C955CAAC@cillnet.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:49:11 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: Re: Cover Crop Incorporation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 749 I don't think any thing could compete in this cover. maybe if rolling will kill it then we could Aer-Way it and No-till plant. But for the microbes is the residue better on top or incorporated in top 6" or deeper?We are trying to build our soil organic matter to 5% or more. The rolling stalk chopper requires rye to be at least 18" for it to work most people say to kill it sooner.Will chopper work on red clover and what would be the time frame? Elane Ingam spoke about microbes an said the best thing we could do for them is to keep living roots in soil all of the time. If we kill cover early to keep it from getting to big ,but cant plant for a while, what impact is this having on the microbes? Is there any reason to feed anaerobic microbes? hschomberg@ag.gov wrote: > > Floyd > > I am a nieve researcher in the southeast and was wondering why you don't > plant dirrectly into the residue. That's how I have been working with some > of the plant material here. I know when we dirrectly plant into green > material it is a problem but the planting operation seems to crush the > clover the rye however is a real problem. We are currently looking at > rolling cover crops to kill them ahead of planting. Wayne Reeves over at > Auburn is also trying this and has had some success. If you have a forage > chopper or a cultipacker or something similar you might give it a try. > I'd be interested in how your system is working. > > Harry Schomberg > ----------------------------------------------------------- > hschomberg@ag.gov > Harry Schomberg > USDA-ARS > 1420 Experiment Station Rd > Watkinsville, GA 30677-2373 > 706-769-5631 x 222 FAX 706-769-8962 > ----------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 03:05:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA18579 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 03:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA17438 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:06:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA17383 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0033-max4.ds26-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.97.183]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23655 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 23:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373A6BCA.C956C66@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:06:29 -0700 From: Sharon Reply-To: isteven@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Thanks from Peru Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 750 My heart felt--if tardy--thanks to all who responded on helping with translations for coca farmers in Peru. I've been caught up in traveling and trying to get my Mom back to Peru with me, so I've not replied individually --but will when I return. The project is going forward in baby steps....funding is quite intimidating!! Sharon Stevenson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 09:43:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22219 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA17954 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:46:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17845 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP184.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.224]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA14581; Thu, 13 May 1999 05:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373ACA01.6CEAFFAC@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:48:02 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE)" CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: CSA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 751 Paul, Susan Smalley posted her answer to you on the SANET and I noticed you're seeking information about CSAs in the US. A graduate student at the University of Georgia did a study of Southeastern CSAs. Her publication is "Maximizing Shareholder Retention in Southeastern CSAs- A Step Towards Long Term Stability," by Deborah Kane and Luanne Lohr. Deborah is now Director of The Food Alliance, email- tfa@teleport.com. Luanne is a faculty member at UG: telephone number: 706-542-0847 postal address: 314-C Conner Hall, Athens, GA 30602-7509 organization: AGRICULTURAL & APPLIED ECONOM mail: llohr@agecon.uga.edu title: ASSISTANT PROFESSOR Deborah also submitted a Masters thesis to UG under the same title- much more detailed than the publication. We're one of the farms in the study. I hope this helps. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 10:41:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23174 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA17906 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:35:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17881 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (pp-2405gardner.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.40]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA16605; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373AD506.8C53EC03@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:35:03 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fjohnson@cillnet.com CC: sanet-mg Subject: Re: Cover Crop Incorporation References: <373A67D7.C955CAAC@cillnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 752 Research on the subject suggests that incorporation into the soil (depending on the C:N ratio) will increase the bacterial populations of the soil, while keeping residue on the surface will increase fungal populations. Also, tillage increases soil respiration (as measured by CO2 evolution). Fungal populations decompose OM slower (theoretically) and therefore, more _should_ remain when decomposition is dominated by fungi than by bacteria. The problem is that the OM would be on the soil surface, and not in the soil. Further, increased residue on soil surface can serve as a reservoir for opportunistic plant pathogens. As for OM in soil, that depends on many different factors, including regional climate, soil type, and incorporation or non-incorporation of residue. In coastal plain loamy sands in North Carolina, we applied and incorporated composted cotton gin trash at 37 wet tons/acre over two years (now into the third), and OM% was not significantly different than soils with synthetic fertilizer applied (>0.5%). Other things that must be considered are prevalent plant diseases, and the crops that will be grown in the fields. Floyd Johnson wrote: > I don't think any thing could compete in this cover. maybe if rolling > will kill it then we could Aer-Way it and No-till plant. But for the > microbes is the residue better on top or incorporated in top 6" or > deeper? We are trying to build our soil organic matter to 5% or more. > The rolling stalk chopper requires rye to be at least 18" for it to > work most people say to kill it sooner.Will chopper work on red clover > and what would be the time frame? > Elane Ingam spoke about microbes an said the best thing we could do for > them is to keep living roots in soil all of the time. If we kill cover > early to keep it from getting to big ,but cant plant for a while, what > impact is this having on the microbes? Is there any reason to feed > anaerobic microbes? What happens in the rhizosphere (that soil surrounding the root zone) is very important. Many rhizosphere bacteria (and fungi) are extremely important (think legumes-rhizobium, and mycorrhizhae). Some anaerobic and aerobic bacteria are nitrogen fixers (Clostridium is a strict anaerobe, being killed in the presence of oxygen. Azobacteria are free-living N2 fixers, and may play as important a role in nitrogen fixation as rhizobia.) Further, some decomposers can serve to protect living roots from plant pathogens. So leaving dead roots in soil is not always a bad idea. Again, it depends on prevalent diseases in the soil. Things like root knot nematodes require living roots to survive (except eggs, which are extremely resistant). Also, many plant pathogens are not that good at competing in the soil without a host present (while others are _very_ good at surviving in the soil). Well, I've given you a lot of options, and what seem to be contradictions as well. Most of what I've mentioned above are conditional statements, depending on environmental conditions, pathogens present, etc., etc. If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me. . . or the group. Type to you later. . .Russ -- L. Russell Bulluck, III Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 (919) 515-6808 lrbulluc@unity.ncsu.edu ----------------------------------------------------------- The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. Sir E. John Russell, The Microorganisms of the Soil, 1923 ----------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 10:42:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23213 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20034 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:39:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19964 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05648 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA23954; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:39:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1-98.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.98) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma023838; Thu May 13 08:38:17 1999 Message-ID: <01e701be9d45$93555560$14fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Bill Liebhardt" Subject: Re: small risks Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:36:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 753 Good point Bill. All these things were considered modern advances. I think they very appropriately relate to the GMO discussion. "Modern" advances usually require much study before they can be deemed safe. I believe the gist of what everyone is saying is there just hasn't been enough time involved to deem them safe at this point, and if they are still to be released to the public simply label them. I read recently that basically its the customer who decides what is sold. If the customer doesn't want it is will disappear. The article also pointed out that this is negated with government interference. I think this is a good example labeling would give the customer the chance to buy a different product and this is of course what the big guys wish to avoid. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Bill Liebhardt To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 5:18 AM Subject: small risks >We have been told that the risks to GMO's are small. I wondered how many >other technologies or products have been considered to be small risks or >were not considered risks at all. I will start the list but if you have >others please add to it and we can do some public brainstorming. > >1. Pesticides is good for us > >2. Smoking > >3. Nuclear Power > >4. Chemicals which created ozone hole > >5. Endocrine Disrupters > >6. The plow > >7. Automobile emissions and the atmosphere > >8. Irriadiation of food > >9. Feeding rendered diseased sheep to cattle > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 11:17:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23934 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09021 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:09:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09012 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haltemp.unl.edu (207.32.34.28) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 13 May 99 09:10:05 CDT Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 13 May 1999 09:06:14 -0500 Message-ID: <01BE9D1F.DA0EC2A0.AMCGUIRE1@unl.edu> From: Andrew McGuire Reply-To: "AMCGUIRE1@unl.edu" To: "Sanet (E-mail)" Subject: RE: extension, technology and progress Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:03:45 -0500 Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 754 I have some comments on Dr. Reetz's post: On Wednesday, May 12, 1999 11:44 PM, Harold Reetz [SMTP:hreetz@ppi-far.org] wrote: >Comments such as the importance of > "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have made > in agriculture has been at the expense of values. I for one, do not think that the progress we have made has been at the expense of values, but that in many cases, the values that drove the progress were not those that helped the farmer, but those that helped the input dealers, the food processors, the universities' research budgets, and the food marketers. > Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember in the > "good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not nearly so much a > result of technology as it is our nations desire to have cheap, abundant and > healthy food. And this has come at the expense of the farmers, who we in extension, claim to be serving. Seeing what this policy of cheap food has done for farmers and rural areas, our clients, should we not reject it and look for alternatives? That is what this list is all about in my mind. We use technology to accomplish that better than any other > nation in the world. Our success makes it possible for 98% of our > population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for > the science and technology and the large-scale intensive production systems > we have implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced > into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who do grow > it. What if we had stopped losing farmers in 1970? Do you think that all those farmers forced off the farm since then would mind being forced to grow food again? Might not we have said enough is enough back then, and started to try to find ways to keep farmers on the land. At the rate we are going now there will be only 1% of the population farming in a few years, and I suppose some people will call that progress. But here in this part of Nebraska, there are farmers desperately trying to find ways to avoid becoming part of those statistics and who would not mind growing food for as long as they are able. > > I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and disease > problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. The fact that we are trying to reduce the use of pesticides says something about their place in this progress you talk about. If they are so much better than the past then why are we working so hard to reduce their use? Doing it with GMOs, with > cultural practices, and overall systems management, we have a great story to > tell. There is apparently a certain population who feel obliged to attack > progress. They fought pesticides and when we replaced pesticide use with > GMOs, many of the same people jumped from the anti-pesticide bandwagon to > the anti-GMO bandwagon. I do not know enough about the risks of GMOs to comment on other posts on this list, but so far, I have yet to see a GM crop that was really needed. All of the GM crops solve problems that could have solved in other ways. If we had thrown as much money at finding better methods of using Bt sprays as we have in developing Bt corn, we might have a better solution than Bt corn. Pesticide Ready crops are mainly a tool of market control and only make weed control more convenient in my opinion. > > > There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. Dennis > has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of technology, much > more of the world's natural forest ecosystems would be turned into food > production. Our high yield management systems in the US can do much more to > help save the rain forests and deserts and to protect fragile ecosystems > than any other option we have before us. Most of our food crops could not > survive in nature. Most of our agriculture could not survive without > continuous infusion of technology. It is our success with technology that > gives us the abundance and efficiency that allows more people to NOT be > involved in food production. Again, are the farmers that are now leaving agriculture happy about doing so? Or is it just those who are in agribusiness who point to these farmers, cry progress, and celebrate the system? I am not against technology. But much of the technology that is being "continually infused" into agriculture does not benefit farmers. I doubt that you will find a large percentage > of the 98% non-producers who would trade their life styles with going back > to producing their own food. I have no doubt that a large percentage of non-producers would not like farming, but how about the small percentage of ex-farmers that have been forced out by "progress" in the last 30 years? Or those young people in rural America who would like to farm but find it impossible in the current system? I am sure that some of the changes you have seen are for the better, but not all. Maybe it is because I do not have the benefit of working in agriculture for the 25+ years, that I do not see the progress you are talking about. If so, please excuse my inexperience. > Harold Reetz > > Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. > Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute > Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research > 111 East Washington Street > Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 > Respectfully, Andy McGuire, Extension Educator AMCGUIRE1@UNL.EDU P.O. Box 736 office 402-254-2280 Hartington NE 68739 fax 402-254-6891 University of Nebraska Cooperative Extension To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 11:17:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23942 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12687 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:16:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from MailHost.StVincent.Edu (IS.StVincent.Edu [199.234.124.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA12586 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from admin.stvincent.edu (dnelson@stvincent.edu) by MailHost.StVincent.Edu (8.9.1a/SATSYS) with ESMTP id KAA14043; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stvincent.edu (Host-199-234-126-58.StVincent.Edu [199.234.126.58]) by admin.stvincent.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id KAA19498; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373ADE4A.AAAFC302@stvincent.edu> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:14:34 -0400 From: Dean Nelson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: hreetz@ppi-far.org Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 References: <002a01be9cfb$2f2aa1c0$cba7fea9@ibm770> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 755 Harold Reetz wrote: > > After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I find it > difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" that are included > in this "list" without responding. It appears that this is really a forum > for the anti-science, anti-industry people to post their ideas and their > attacks on science and industry. Comments such as the importance of > "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have made > in agriculture has been at the expense of values. "progress" is a term relative to a goal. Increases in efficiency can be described as progress if your goal is to become more efficient, and it isn't always at the expense of values because they don't rise and fall on the same dimension. Some of the increases in efficiency are at the expense of values, some aren't. For example, a 50,000 head hog facility may be more efficient than 500 farmers raising 100 hogs. But, the 500 farmers comprise a more care-laden community (with respect to the local community) of people than the management and labor of the hog facility. The expenses and profits of the 500 farmers are much more likely to remain local than the expenses and profits of the hog facility. The hog facility may be good for consumers in terms of price and uniformity of product, but I would argue that it has degraded the local community. Instead of landowners with a stake in the local community, the primary management decisions are made to benefit shareholders living who knows where. If consumers were given an informed choice between the two scenarios, would they be willing to pay a premium to sustain the farming community? >I had hoped this was a forum for a more balanced discussion and assessment >of facts. I guess that is asking too much. But I am concerned about the >comments that the new technologies in agriculture are creating hazards and >quality problems when there is no evidence to support such claims. >Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember in the >"good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not nearly so much a >result of technology as it is our nations desire to have cheap, abundant and >healthy food. We use technology to accomplish that better than any other >nation in the world. Our success makes it possible for 98% of our >population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for >the science and technology and the large-scale intensive production systems >we have implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced >into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who do grow >it. This almost sounds as if you are making the assumption that 100% of the people would choose NOT to live on the farm and grow their own food. That would imply that all of the family farmers who have quit the business did so gladly. That is almost exactly opposite to what I have experienced. Almost to a one, all the farmers I know raise food because they KNOW they are doing something good, something necessary, something they can be proud of. People who don't eat die. People who eat the food I produce live. If they don't produce their own food, they depend on me to live. That is a tradition of sacred trust. What could be a more basic human value than that? It is being undermined by the mantra of you-must-treat-your-farm-as-a-business. Why? > I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and disease > problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. Doing it with GMOs, with > cultural practices, and overall systems management, we have a great story to > tell. There is apparently a certain population who feel obliged to attack > progress. Progress is a multi-faceted term. Because of the name of the group, it should be evident that sustainability is an important dimension of progress. Your definition of progress, understandably, entails many of the things at which you have had success. If that weren't true for most of us, we wouldn't persist at our labors. But, think of some of the ways which for some of us your progress doesn't seem like progress. For instance, it seems more than coincidental that the progress of the current agri-science and agri-industry has made shareholders in large (close to monopoly) corporations very rich while at the same time forcing thousands of family farmers to reluctantly sell their land, move off the farm, and work for someone else. But, as you say Americans spend less as a percentage of their income for food than any country in the world. Was that a necessary trade-off? Could progress in efficiency been had without the human cost? The problem isn't that progress was made at the expense of values (the human cost), the problem is that values (the human cost) were not and still are not in the equation. Spreadsheets don't have functions which transform values into dollars and cents. Business decisions are made because of dollars and cents. Farming isn't a business, it is literally a way of life. Dean -- Dean Nelson, Ph.D. Laurel Vista Farm Ligonier, PA "I recommend this matter to your serious pondering, for it is certain that the prevalent fear of poverty among the educated classes is the worst moral disease from which our civilization suffers" William James To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 11:25:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24151 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22133 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:31:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21965 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:31:07 -0400 (EDT) From: RMFU@aol.com Received: from RMFU@aol.com (2617) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7FNCa10991; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:29:50 EDT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1016 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: hreetz@ppi-far.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 756 Responding to Harold Reetz - I'm assuming it's the angle from which you look at farming that causes your distress. In the two statements, "Our success makes it possible for 98% of our population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food" and without large-scale production systems "more people would be forced into growing food." I see that you believe it is bad to have to farm. On the grand scale of understanding 'mother earth' and staying connected with that concept, perhaps the more of us that did farm, the better off our society might be. Technology is not bad, but it is not the only way to go either. Lynn Eschbach To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 11:26:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24159 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:26:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22867 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:32:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (mail.gov.pe.ca [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA22810 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:27:45 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:27:17 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, colibri@west.net Subject: Re: NZ: Secretive GE Salmon Operation Uncovered Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 757 I wonder... if there were a way to induce polyploidy in salmon without use of a transfer agent (eg virus), would it be OK? A number of common food plants have been produced via induced polyploidy. They are not transgenic. Some are sterile (like seedless watermelons),; while others are self-propagating. I'm trying to focus in on exactly what is the key objectionable thing about GE; is it the introduction of genetic material from the transfer agent (usually a virus), as Puztai supporters seem to be claiming, or to the introduction of genes across species barriers? If the former, then lets get some research going on the impact of adding more viral genes to various plant and animal genomes (there are a lot of them there already). [The rhzobium with the doubled N-fixation gene is objectionable because it wasn't a natural mutation, right?] If the latter is the concern, then does the same objection hold when plants or animals are hybridized to create new varieties (eg tricale, or, for that matter, wheat itself -- centuries ago)? Or (again) do we need research to determine whether harmless bacterial genes (for example) become harmful when expressed in the genome of another species? What kind of evidence would convince the skeptics -- or prove their fears to be well-founded, as opposed to unfounded? Would the same level of effort/research/vigilance be needed for each new GMO introduction, forever, even if no evidence of harm was evident from prior releases? Often, I get the feeling that a lot of opponents of GE are visceral opponents who fundamentally believe the technology is a wrong thing to do regardless of whether it is safe, or capable of enhancing the production, shipping, processing or nutritional characteristics of foods. That is, even if it could be shown that GMOs were not harmful (and Ann is right to complain that we don't seem to be trying very hard to show whether this is true or not), quite a number of people would still find them unacceptable. So find a non-GE source of insulin, beer, yogurt, cheese, etc. There will always be a market for these special products. And, WHEN we finally get the research done to show, convincingly whether these things are harmful or not, either the producers of the special, non-GE products will suddenly have the entire world market in the palm of their hand, or, they'll forever be a niche. Start with the research and the labelling. BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 11:49:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24595 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA10811 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:00:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from spamgaac.compuserve.com (as-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.146]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10798 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.0) id KAA23043; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:56:47 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: FW: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste To: "Lon J. Rombough" , SANET-mg Message-ID: <199905131059_MC2-757B-F5F8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 758 Thanks, Lon. Yet another reason to do away with the USDA. What ridiculous research! What PR garbage!. Hundreds of thousands or millions of taxpayer dololars spent for years to encourage and enable a long-distance, out-of-season food system. Why doesn't the ARS work on some real problems. Like getting intelligence or appropriate scale, or energy efficiency into our food system. Bill Duesing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 12:11:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25135 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA24592 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:25:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24544 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA08438 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA20906; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:02 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma020517; Thu, 13 May 99 10:24:43 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:24:43 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD20@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:24:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 759 Jane, > Dale used the industry arguments... The arguments are mine, and I am not speaking for Pioneer. > that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic > manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain > medications; grains will be designed to have particular > nutritional compositions; etc. That wasn't really my point. My point was that the health risk from these manipulations is probably small. "Improvement" is a matter of opinion. I am sure you would agree that plant varieties exhibit a wide range of characteristics within species. > Is not the bounty of nature enough to suit our needs? Have > we not co-evolved with the plants and animals that share > this planet with us? Corn was first domesticated eight or nine thousand years ago. How much biological change do you think occurred in humans since that time? Negligible. How much change occurred in corn? To quote Walt Galinat "A contemplation of the creative power necessary for ancient man to transform the tiny spike of teosinte into the magnificent ear of corn in a relatively short period of time, perhaps 100 yrs, leaves the beholder with a sense of awe if not disbelief." Was that manipulation "good"? Well, the folks doing the selection thought it was. The relevant co-evolution here is the co-evolution of plants with human culture. > we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow > ourselves to see them. How about using an ecological approach, > working with the cycles of nature, the complex dynamics of soil, > and the miraculous natural capabilities of plants to attempt to All successful farmers do this. But, who are you to prescribe practices and varieties, and tell farmers what they can and can't do? On what basis? I can accept the basis of public or ecosystem health, but that is not what you are arguing here. As is so common on this list, you are setting yourself up as arbiter of natural law (and falling into the naturalistic fallacy). IMO the farmer should decide what is an "improvement" and what is not. The arbiter of natural law should be the farmer. > The simple answer is that the profit potential from this > approach is very limited as it relies not on chemical or > biotechnological inputs but on intensive system management, > therefore industry would not be very interested > in it. You might desire to forge your own hoe or make your own nails, but most farmers choose not to do that. Is that bad? Pioneer produces one kind of input, crop varieties (packaged in high-quality seeds BTW). You might take esthetic pleasure in selecting and breeding plants. I know I do. But most farmers choose to have someone else do it for them. We seed industry people make a living doing that. As it turns out, the high-tech, gee-whiz stuff doesn't make much more money than conventional breeding when the dust settles (serves them oversold gene-splicers right ;-). Finely targeted genetic manipulation, not always *trans*genic, is becoming conventional. Human culture continues to co-evolve with the crop. IMO it is appropriate to let farmers themselves decide how they will farm in their own unique situation. They need to decide what inputs should logically be purchased in there situation. I don't think it is fair or efficient for some centralized academic authority to decide what practices or varieties are *natural* enough for them to grow. I think GMO crops are safe and represent an environmentally responsible choice in many cases. Apparently, many farmers want to buy such seed. I don't understand the knee-jerk, across-the-board rejection by the sustainable ag crowd. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 12:17:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25321 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25855 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:27:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25825 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP311.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.49]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04316 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373AEFA8.D40D88CB@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:28:42 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: extension, technology and progress Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 760 Thank you Dean & Andrew for saying what has been rolling around in my mind since reading the original post by Dr. Reetz. I have a few comments for you, Dr, Reetz. Something you may not be aware of is that most farmers farm because we love the work- it's our true vocation. This is the only explanation why we continue to operate farms ("businesses") that produce such a small return on investment (ROI). If we were only interested in ROI (or the "business") we would choose anything BUT farming. I told Richard Romminger (USDA Undersecretary) this and challenged him to go into any factory or business and ask how many people there would continue working if they weren't paid. Also, I would like to say to you that one of the problems I've had in talking with USDA and Extension people is that we speak entirely different languages. (I refer you to Dean & Andrew's definitions.) Words like "Sustainable" & "efficiency" mean vastly different things to all of us. And let me reinforce "sacred trust." I grow food in a manner that increases fertility of the soil, has the least impact on the immediate area and watershed and provides others with food that is of the highest quality- fresh, full of nutrients and no manmade chemicals. This is what farmers attempt, not necessarily "farm businesses" or agribusiness where the motive is primarily profit. And please do not castigate this discussion group because most disagree with you. Your post was sent out unedited, just like everyone else's. If we find ourselves surrounded by other viewpoints, perhaps we should look at our own beliefs rather than casting aspersions at others. It could be that you are experiencing form the inside what I have observed from the outside- Most in Extension & USDA are secluded in the fraternity of Ag schools and Ag offices and are baffled when a bunch of uppity farmers speak up against the popular paradigm. I refer you to the fable, "The Emperor's New Clothes." Good luck in your journey for knowledge. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 12:21:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25471 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21589 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:17:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (stat49.webserf.net [204.77.122.49] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA21574 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905131517.LAA21574@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.139] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id ACEB3EF03F8; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:16:59 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:16:15 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: "Success" of modern agriculture Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 761 On Wed, 12 May 1999 23:43:45 -0500, Harold Reetz wrote: >nation in the world. Our success makes it possible for 98% of our >population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for >the science and technology and the large-scale intensive production systems >we have implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced >into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who do grow If you include everyone in today's food production system -- even us agronomist types -- it comes out to about one-fifth of the work force. One person in agriculture feeding himself and four others seems to be about the long term average. What has shifted is the number of people on the *land* and their percentage share of the total food dollar. To say that one "farmer" now feeds 50 or 100 other people is literally true, but economically meaningless. Agriculture is the only endeavour of which I'm aware that seems to measure its "success" by how many people it drives *out* of the industry, rather than by how many it recruits to join. If you look at "farmers" as a biological population, the 'species' (farmers) can only be described as MORIBUND --- that is, absolute numbers are declining and the entire population is aging. Low recruitment levels in a stable population are cause enough for alarm. In a declining population, low recruitment levels signal impending disaster. The problem goes far beyond agriculture --- we have created a social economy in which the vast majority of people under the age of 40 exist either to entertain or to be entertained --- but economic history is clear on one thing (if nothing else). Collapses and contractions in the general economy are always preceded by difficulties in the farm economy. Descriptive, not prescriptive. Associative, not causative. What you consider "success," Mr. Reetz, I consider a "symptom," and therefore regard as a warning to be ignored only at our peril. >There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. Dennis >has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of technology, much >more of the world's natural forest ecosystems would be turned into food Unlike many on this list, I largely agree with Mr. Avery's logic. Perhaps it is because I have worked in areas of Latin America where every critter larger than a squirrel has long-since disappeared into a stewpot. From his initial assumptions, Avery draws a reasonable series of conclusions. Unfortunately, his initial assumptions are based on what might most charitably be described as marginal science. The underlying "research" on organic and sustainable yields appears to be Knutson's work at Texas A&M. That particular piece of "science" consisted primarily in *asking* the heads of Extension in the various states "What would yields be in your state with organic production?" As far as I can tell, the answers had no solid basis in research, and were taken at face value. To take as one's core assumption a quaternisation of generally unreliable tertiary sources would probably guarantee an F for any student paper in a 200s or higher level course. Avery's logic would merit a more serious discussion if we were able to base it on solid data for yields, bio-diversity, popluation dynamics, human demographics and such. Perhaps PPI would be willing to fund David Orr (Ohio), David Pimentel (Cornell), Miguel Altieri, Warren Potter, and some other reputable scientists on the "sustainable" side of things to work with an equal number of "conventional" people in order to generate a family of *mutually-agreed and reliable* numbers to serve as the basis for an Avery-style analysis. >Maybe instead of complaining about the direction of this list, I should just >remove my name from it. For now, thanks for letting me vent my concerns. I hope you stick around and keep posting. I especially hope you take my remark about funding the above project very seriously. PPI over the years has funded much landmark and groundbreaking work. Here's an opportunity to take it to the next level. Bart Hall Lawrence, KS To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 13:58:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27760 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA15672 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:47:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15619 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA03165 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 13 May 99 12:50:13 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 13 May 99 12:50:01 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:50:00 EST Subject: Re: "Success" of modern agriculture In-reply-to: <199905131517.LAA21574@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 762 Bart: nice post. Couple of add-on thoughts - 1. the "one farmer feeds...." stuff has stuck in my craw (sp?) for a while now. I recall a quote from a govn't taskforce that went something like this - the fact that an individual farmer now feeds 120 of his fellows (N.B. number and gender irrelevant) but has to take an off-farm job to feed his family is a sad commentary on the state of agriculture today. This was in Canada, and part of the context of the study dealt with subsidies/incentives and the degree to which farmer livelihood is directly out of the public purse. While declining, particularly in the US, the numbers are still in the range of 20-40% (of farm income that comes from government, in one form or another) for the US and Canadian farmers - generally 40-80% for European farmers. But the essence of my amazement - then and now - is that our food production system has become so very dependent upon Averyesque inputs and so very distorted by government interventions that it demands extensive subsidies *not* just from the public purse (above) but from individual farm families as well - just to stay in business. Farmers are subsidizing agriculture - with off-farm employment by one or both spouses - every bit as much as society. Part-time farming is the norm in both the US and Canada, much though it is despised and derided by some commentators - there just isn't enough money left in resource-intensive farming to raise a family. Now, what kind of inanity have we evolved here?! At present, Canadian farmers retain less than 10% of farmgate receipts as net profits - compared with about 50% 50 years ago. The 90% goes primarily to buy purchased inputs, to pay interest on loans, and depreciation on equipment. And keep in mind, that we haven't yet gotten to the marketing/retailing end - this is just farmgate receipts. Yes, we can get higher and higher yields - but how and why? Higher yields depend largely on purchased inputs, and resource-responsive genetics - all of which costs money, both directly and to deal with the ecological resistance which resource-intensive approaches engender, requiring yet more purchased inputs. Why increase yields when demand for food is inelastic, and the increased supply just means lower prices - putting farmers back where they started, economically. And most disturbingly, it is this kind of economic, ecological, and spiritual dead-ending that is lauded so boisterously as *progress*. Uh uh - not by this author. 2. Avery's industry-comforting simplifications are generally founded upon hopelessly ill-considered assessments of the potential of organic farming - as you pointed out. To this, I would add - with tongue just slightly in cheek - that it is a darn good thing that organic yields are generally lower than conventional. I mean, just think about it. What would it mean if a few organic farmers, working largely as isolated individuals in a complete vacuum of research and extension support, could achieve yields comparable to those of conventional neighbors whose productivity was the direct beneficiary of thousands of person-years and billions of dollars of research effort? Like, uh, what have we in ag research been *doing* all these years with all that money? Avery's approach to yield comparisons is like sitting down 6 and 12 year old students and asking them to solve trig problems - then pointing triumphantly when the 12 year olds do better. If yield is indeed the parameter of choice for comparisons - and I'm not sure it is - then an objective analysis would compare apples with apples, not apples and kiwi fruit. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 14:24:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28475 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09241 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:25:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09208 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:25:20 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term5-48.vta.west.net [205.254.241.176]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D9556249D3 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:15 -0800 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Trash from Crop-Processing Plant Harvested for Disease-Fighting Agents Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 763 Trash from Crop-Processing Plant Harvested for Disease-Fighting Agents University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign May 1999 http://www.admin.uiuc.edu/NB/99.05/plantip.html CHAMPAIGN, Ill. -- Instead of traveling to Brazil's tropical rain forest or diving into the ocean, a team of University of Illinois scientists are looking for disease-fighting compounds closer to home, harvesting potential agents from the trash piles of byproducts at crop-processing plants. Initial laboratory tests on cultured mammalian and human cells indicate an ethanol extract of soybean molasses represses the ability of at least one dietary carcinogen to damage the DNA of normal cells, the researchers report. A report is being published in the May issue of Agricultural Research Magazine. More details will appear later in the journal "Teratogenesis, Carcinogenesis and Mutagenesis." At the Environmental Mutagen Society Meeting, March 27 to April 1, in Washington, D.C., the team announced that the structure of the active compound -- named phytochemical complex 100 (PCC 100) -- contains a combination of chemicals known as saponins. Very little work has been done on their biological effects. The team also reported at the meeting that PCC suppresses the growth rate of cancer cells and that an isolated soy-protein fraction drastically reduces the growth rate of human colon cancer. The work was based on a newly developed cell-growth kinetic assay. The soy protein finding did not come as a surprise, because the apparent positive effects of soy protein and its estrogen-like isoflavones have been documented. But the still-evolving technique may allow scientists to more precisely identify the specific protein agents and the anti-cancer mechanisms that are involved, said team leader Michael J. Plewa, a geneticist in the department of crop sciences. "It is strange to be running off to the rain forest to yank up weird plants when we may already be sitting on mountains of very useful pharmaceutical agents in our own corn and soybean fields," he said. "During crop processing, raw materials are modified by mechanical disruption, chemical extraction and changes in temperatures and pressures. Agents you take out of plants for food or processing products may not necessarily be the ones that are actually in the plants or seeds themselves. They may have been modified." Plewa's team includes U. of I. colleagues A. Lane Rayburn, B.A. Francis and several students, and M. Berhow of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Collaborative work is continuing with BIBRA International in the United Kingdom and Archer Daniels Midland Co. in Decatur, Ill. Funding for exploring the byproducts and developing assays to find anti-mutagens and anti-carcinogens comes from the U.S. Soybean Board and Illinois Soybean Operating Board. "We are looking to prevent environmental carcinogens ingested in our diet from affecting normal cells in our bodies, and to isolate agents that slow down the growth rate of already existing cancer cells," Plewa said. "If we can repress their growth, we might be able to extend the use and heighten the effectiveness of therapeutic drugs, chemotherapy and radiation." CONTACT: Jim Barlow, Life Sciences Editor (217) 333-5802 E-mail: b-james3@uiuc.edu News Bureau University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 807 S. Wright St., Suite 520 East Champaign, IL 61820-6219 (217) 333-1085 fax (217) 244-0161 e-mail: uinews@uiuc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 14:25:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28531 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:24:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08568 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10790 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:23:28 -0500 Message-ID: <199905131222000350.00286B3D@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD20@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD20@vela.phibred.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:22:00 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dale Wilson" Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA08580 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 764 >knee-jerk, [kick ass], across-the-board rejection by the sustainable ag crowd. Yup, that's what it is, Dale. An ingrained, intuitive response by biologically evolved organisms in reaction to an invasive and unconscious incursion by hostile forces into the place where we live. >Was that manipulation "good"? Well, the folks doing >the selection thought it was. Once again - the question is not: To manipulate or not to manipulate. It's different strokes for different folks. It's the methodology. Do genetic (not transgenetic) crosses. Do it sexually, not via micro-surgical implants. You get credit for trying. And GMO's are still on the market - but "the sustainable ag crowd" is getting to be just about everybody. Save the GMO's for clearly justifiable (i.e. necessary) cases. Have a nice day. DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 13/05/99 at 10:24 AM Wilson, Dale wrote: >Jane, > >> Dale used the industry arguments... > >The arguments are mine, and I am not speaking for Pioneer. > >> that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic >> manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain >> medications; grains will be designed to have particular >> nutritional compositions; etc. > >That wasn't really my point. My point was that the health risk from these >manipulations is probably small. "Improvement" is a matter of opinion. I >am sure you would agree that plant varieties exhibit a wide range of >characteristics within species. > >> Is not the bounty of nature enough to suit our needs? Have >> we not co-evolved with the plants and animals that share >> this planet with us? > >Corn was first domesticated eight or nine thousand years ago. How much >biological change do you think occurred in humans since that time? >Negligible. How much change occurred in corn? To quote Walt Galinat "A >contemplation of the creative power necessary for ancient man to transform >the tiny spike of teosinte into the magnificent ear of corn in a relatively >short period of time, perhaps 100 yrs, leaves the beholder with a sense of >awe if not disbelief." Was that manipulation "good"? Well, the folks doing >the selection thought it was. > >The relevant co-evolution here is the co-evolution of plants with human >culture. > >> we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow >> ourselves to see them. How about using an ecological approach, >> working with the cycles of nature, the complex dynamics of soil, >> and the miraculous natural capabilities of plants to attempt to > >All successful farmers do this. But, who are you to prescribe practices and >varieties, and tell farmers what they can and can't do? On what basis? I >can accept the basis of public or ecosystem health, but that is not what you >are arguing here. As is so common on this list, you are setting yourself up >as arbiter of natural law (and falling into the naturalistic fallacy). IMO >the farmer should decide what is an "improvement" and what is not. The >arbiter of natural law should be the farmer. > >> The simple answer is that the profit potential from this >> approach is very limited as it relies not on chemical or >> biotechnological inputs but on intensive system management, >> therefore industry would not be very interested >> in it. > >You might desire to forge your own hoe or make your own nails, but most >farmers choose not to do that. Is that bad? Pioneer produces one kind of >input, crop varieties (packaged in high-quality seeds BTW). You might take >esthetic pleasure in selecting and breeding plants. I know I do. But most >farmers choose to have someone else do it for them. We seed industry people >make a living doing that. As it turns out, the high-tech, gee-whiz stuff >doesn't make much more money than conventional breeding when the dust >settles (serves them oversold gene-splicers right ;-). Finely targeted >genetic manipulation, not always *trans*genic, is becoming conventional. >Human culture continues to co-evolve with the crop. > >IMO it is appropriate to let farmers themselves decide how they will farm in >their own unique situation. They need to decide what inputs should >logically be purchased in there situation. I don't think it is fair or >efficient for some centralized academic authority to decide what practices >or varieties are *natural* enough for them to grow. I think GMO crops are >safe and represent an environmentally responsible choice in many cases. >Apparently, many farmers want to buy such seed. I don't understand the >knee-jerk, across-the-board rejection by the sustainable ag crowd. > >Dale > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 14:27:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28560 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:27:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09233 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:25:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09172 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:25:17 -0400 (EDT) From: colibri@west.net Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10799 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.206] (term5-48.vta.west.net [205.254.241.176]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A38E1249D8 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:25:12 -0800 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Britain caught out by leaked genetic food report Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 765 Britain caught out by leaked genetic food report LONDON, May 12 (Reuters) - The British government scrambled on Wednesday to deal with a leaked report which said commercial growing of genetically modified crops would contaminate other foodstuffs over large distances. A Ministry of Agriculture official said the report had not yet gone to ministers while the John Innes research centre, whose experts compiled the study, said it had been leaked. Neither would comment on it before publication, due late this month or early in June after the government has digested its contents. But organic farmers were outraged. Environment Minister Michael Meacher tried to quell the latest fears about GM foods which have become a headache for the government. Public opinion is largely against them but Prime Minister Tony Blair determined that Britain should remain at the forefront of the technology. ``The government is very concerned to preserve the integrity of organic farming,'' Meacher told BBC radio. ``We want to see an increase in organic farming. We want to see proper separation distances. Exactly what they should be is a matter that we are now looking at extremely closely.'' The Daily Mail said the John Innes Centre will tell the government that pollen from GM crops can be spread across wide distances by winds and insects. The paper said the report -- ``Organic Farming and Gene Transfer from Genetically Modified Crops'' -- concluded that contamination could not be entirely stopped so acceptable levels would have to be decided upon. Official GM crop trials operate with only a 200-yard buffer zone. The Soil Association, which regulates organic farming, says a six-mile barrier is the minimum needed to guarantee organic crops are not contaminated. ``We are determined to maintain the purity of organic crops in the UK and this is why we have set ourselves against GM,'' said the association's Richard Young. ``The boundaries between GM crops are totally inadequate to protect organic farmers.'' Meacher said the question of whether consumers wanted foods labelled as GM-free to be just that, or whether they may accept a residual amount of modified ingredients amounting to one or two percent, was key. ``If the answer is that people expect it to be virtually nil, that does require considerably greater separation distances,'' he said. ``It is perfectly true that...there are no 'no-fly' zones for bees and they can travel long distances.'' English Nature, a government advisory body, has called for a five-year ban on the commercial release of GM crops to allow more research on their environmental impact. But Cabinet Office minister Jack Cunningham has said if all regulatory hurdles were cleared, commercial planting of GM crops could begin next year. Mad cow disease, the human equivalent of which has claimed about 30 British lives, has made people deeply conscious of food safety and sensitive to stories about ``Frankenstein foods.'' Most supermarkets have already banned GM foods from their stores or, at the very least, clearly labelled them. Copyright 1999 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters Limited content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters Limited. Reuters Limited shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. @g Worldwide | @griculture Online | Canada @griculture Online | Farmers Weekly Interactive | Interfax News Agency To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 14:47:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28946 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA23011 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:47:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA22960 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11225 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:47:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 12:47:08 -0500 Message-ID: <199905131245400230.003E165F@acnet.net> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD20@vela.phibred.com> <199905131222000350.00286B3D@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:45:40 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Fwd: RE: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA22968 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 766 Dale, I figured out a way to beat the reaction: the >>knee-jerk, [kick ass], across-the-board rejection by the sustainable ag crowd. Just find a way to get the same drugs used to diminish the immune response into the food supply. Whatta ya say? Would it work? *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 13/05/99 at 10:24 AM Douglas M. Hinds wrote: From: Douglas M. Hinds To: "Dale Wilson" CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:21:59 -0600 Subject: RE: information, extension, biotech, philosophy > >>knee-jerk, [kick ass], across-the-board rejection by the sustainable ag crowd. > >Yup, that's what it is, Dale. An ingrained, intuitive response by biologically evolved organisms in reaction to an invasive and unconscious incursion by hostile forces into the place where we live. > >>Was that manipulation "good"? Well, the folks doing >>the selection thought it was. > >Once again - the question is not: To manipulate or not to manipulate. It's different strokes for different folks. It's the methodology. Do genetic (not transgenetic) crosses. Do it sexually, not via micro-surgical implants. You get credit for trying. And GMO's are still on the market - but "the sustainable ag crowd" is getting to be just about everybody. Save the GMO's for clearly justifiable (i.e. necessary) cases. > >Have a nice day. > >DH > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 13/05/99 at 10:24 AM Wilson, Dale wrote: > >>Jane, >> >>> Dale used the industry arguments... >> >>The arguments are mine, and I am not speaking for Pioneer. >> >>> that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic >>> manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain >>> medications; grains will be designed to have particular >>> nutritional compositions; etc. >> >>That wasn't really my point. My point was that the health risk from these >>manipulations is probably small. "Improvement" is a matter of opinion. I >>am sure you would agree that plant varieties exhibit a wide range of >>characteristics within species. >> >>> Is not the bounty of nature enough to suit our needs? Have >>> we not co-evolved with the plants and animals that share >>> this planet with us? >> >>Corn was first domesticated eight or nine thousand years ago. How much >>biological change do you think occurred in humans since that time? >>Negligible. How much change occurred in corn? To quote Walt Galinat "A >>contemplation of the creative power necessary for ancient man to transform >>the tiny spike of teosinte into the magnificent ear of corn in a relatively >>short period of time, perhaps 100 yrs, leaves the beholder with a sense of >>awe if not disbelief." Was that manipulation "good"? Well, the folks doing >>the selection thought it was. >> >>The relevant co-evolution here is the co-evolution of plants with human >>culture. >> >>> we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow >>> ourselves to see them. How about using an ecological approach, >>> working with the cycles of nature, the complex dynamics of soil, >>> and the miraculous natural capabilities of plants to attempt to >> >>All successful farmers do this. But, who are you to prescribe practices and >>varieties, and tell farmers what they can and can't do? On what basis? I >>can accept the basis of public or ecosystem health, but that is not what you >>are arguing here. As is so common on this list, you are setting yourself up >>as arbiter of natural law (and falling into the naturalistic fallacy). IMO >>the farmer should decide what is an "improvement" and what is not. The >>arbiter of natural law should be the farmer. >> >>> The simple answer is that the profit potential from this >>> approach is very limited as it relies not on chemical or >>> biotechnological inputs but on intensive system management, >>> therefore industry would not be very interested >>> in it. >> >>You might desire to forge your own hoe or make your own nails, but most >>farmers choose not to do that. Is that bad? Pioneer produces one kind of >>input, crop varieties (packaged in high-quality seeds BTW). You might take >>esthetic pleasure in selecting and breeding plants. I know I do. But most >>farmers choose to have someone else do it for them. We seed industry people >>make a living doing that. As it turns out, the high-tech, gee-whiz stuff >>doesn't make much more money than conventional breeding when the dust >>settles (serves them oversold gene-splicers right ;-). Finely targeted >>genetic manipulation, not always *trans*genic, is becoming conventional. >>Human culture continues to co-evolve with the crop. >> >>IMO it is appropriate to let farmers themselves decide how they will farm in >>their own unique situation. They need to decide what inputs should >>logically be purchased in there situation. I don't think it is fair or >>efficient for some centralized academic authority to decide what practices >>or varieties are *natural* enough for them to grow. I think GMO crops are >>safe and represent an environmentally responsible choice in many cases. >>Apparently, many farmers want to buy such seed. I don't understand the >>knee-jerk, across-the-board rejection by the sustainable ag crowd. >> >>Dale >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 14:51:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29000 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA21283 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA21079 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:49:27 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'fjohnson@cillnet.com(FloydJohnson)'" Subject: Re: Cover Crop Incorporation Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:49:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 767 Floyd, Many of your questions, as well as alternative spring management options for vetch and other cover crops, are addressed in great detail in the SAN publication: Managing Cover Crops Profitably, 2nd Edition. 1998. At the risk of taking information out of context, I will include a section of the chapter on killing vetch, below. Other parts of the same chapter would also be relevant, including specifics on N contribution by the legume, mixing with grain crops, weed control and moisture relations in no-till vs. conventional till systems. Excerpts from the book, including the complete chapter on cereal rye, are available on the web at http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/ The book also has a whole chapter on soil fertility (and health), including discussions of soil microbes, tillage effects, nutrient cycling, estimating N contribution from your cover crops. Other sidebars describe in detail farmers' management of cover crops. We also made every attempt to suggest management precautions, including the problems associated with too much biomass production. See http://www.sare.org/san/mccp2/orderpub.htm to order the $19 book--and what a deal for 212 pages loaded with info just like the excerpt below! Excerpt from Managing Cover Crops Profitably, 2nd Edition, chapter on hairy vetch. Copyright 1998 by the Sustainable Agriculture Network. ____________________________________________________________________________ _____________ NOTE: numbers in parentheses refer to the bibliography, also on the web for those who care to dig deeper. Killing Your mode of killing hairy vetch and managing residue will depend on which of its benefits are most important to you. Incorporation of hairy vetch vegetation favors first-year N contribution, but takes significant energy and labor. Keeping vetch residue on the surface favors weed suppression, moisture retention, and insect habitat, but may reduce N contribution. In spring, hairy vetch continues to add N through its "seed set" stage after blooming. Biomass and N increase until maturity, giving either greater benefit or a dilemma, depending on your ability to deal with vines that become more sprawling and matted as they mature. Climate influences the results of hairy vetch residue management. In the hot and humid conditions of the Southeast, no-till hairy vetch residue appears to contribute significant N without incorporation. Findings elsewhere (272) indicate that farmers in the cooler and drier areas of the western Corn Belt need to manage hairy vetch with mowing and tillage to achieve peak N benefits by preventing N volatilization (loss into the atmosphere). Mulch-retaining options include strip-tilling or strip chemical desiccation (leaving vetch untreated between the strips), mechanical killing (rotary mowing, flailing, cutting, sub-soil shearing with an undercutter, or chopping/flattening with a rolling stalk chopper) or broadcast herbicide application. No-till corn into killed vetch. The best time for no-till corn planting into hairy vetch varies with local rainfall patterns, soil type, desired N contribution, season length and vetch maturity. In southern Illinois, hairy vetch no-tilled into fescue provided 40 to 180 lb. N/A over 15 years for one researcher/farmer. He used herbicide to kill the vetch about two weeks before the area's traditional mid-May corn planting date. The 14-day interval was critical to rid the field of prairie voles, present due to the field's thick fescue thatch. He kills the vetch when it is in its pre-bloom or bloom stage, nearing its peak N-accumulation capacity. Further delay would risk loss of soil moisture in the dry period customary there in early June (267). When the no-tilled vetch was left to grow one season until seed set, it produced 6 tons of dry matter and contributed a potentially polluting 385 lb. N/A (348). This high dose of N must be managed carefully during the next year to prevent leaching or surface runoff of nitrates. A series of trials in Maryland showed a different mix of conditions. Corn planting in mid-April is common there, but early killing of vetch to plant corn then had the surprising effect of decreasing soil moisture and corn yield, as well as predictably lowering N contribution. The earlier-planted corn had less moisture-conserving residue. Late April or early May kill dates, with corn no-tilled 10 days later, consistently resulted in higher corn yields than earlier kill dates (62, 63, 64). With hairy vetch and a vetch/rye mixture, summer soil water conservation by the cover crop residue had a greater impact than spring moisture depletion by the growing cover crop in determining corn yield (64). Results in the same trials, which also included a pure rye cover, demonstrated the management flexibility of a legume/grain mix. Early killed rye protects the soil as it conserves water and N, while vetch killed late can meet a large part of the N requirement for corn. The vetch/rye mixture can conserve N and soil moisture while fixing N for the subsequent crop. The vetch and vetch/rye mixture accumulated N at 130 to 180 lb./A. The mixture contained as much N--or more--than vetch alone (63). In an Ohio trial, corn no-tilled into hairy vetch at mid-bloom in May received better early season weed control from vetch mulch than corn seeded into vetch killed earlier. The late planting date decreased yield, however (145, 289), requiring calculation to determine if lower costs for tillage, weed control, and N outweigh the yield loss. Once vetch starts to bloom, it is easily killed by any mechanical treatment (52). To mow-kill for mulch, rye grown with hairy vetch improves cutting by holding the vetch off the ground to allow more complete severing of stems from roots. Rye also increases the density of residue covering the vetch stubble to prevent regrowth. Much quicker and more energy-efficient than mowing is use of a modified Buffalo rolling stalk chopper, an implement designed to shatter standing corn stubble. The chopper's rolling blades break over, crimp and cut crop stems at ground level, and handle thick residue of hairy vetch or foxtail millet at 8 to 10 mph (131). No-till vegetable transplanting. Vetch that is suppressed or killed without disturbing the soil maintains moisture well for transplanted vegetables. No-till innovator Steve Groff of Lancaster County, Pa., uses the rolling stalk chopper to create a killed organic mulch. His favorite mix is 25 lb. hairy vetch, 30 lb. rye and 10 lb. crimson clover/A (132). No-till, delayed kill. Jeff Moyer of the Rodale Institute in Kutztown, Pa., no-tills corn into standing hairy vetch in late May or early June, waits several more days, then flail-chops the vetch before corn emergence. This method allows the vetch to produce maximum N and is late enough to allow soil warming even with the vetch in place (230). Also useful in killing hairy vetch on raised beds as used in vegetables and cotton is the improved prototype of an undercutter that leaves severed residue virtually undisturbed on the surface (70). The undercutter tool includes a flat roller attachment, which, by itself, usually provides only partial suppression unless used after flowering. Herbicides used to kill hairy vetch include glyphosate (only somewhat effective), paraquat, 2,4-D, dicamba and triazines including atrazine, cyanazine and metribuzin. Vetch will die in three to 30 days (338), depending on the material used and crop conditions. Vetch incorporation. As a rule, to gauge the optimum hairy vetch kill date, credit vetch with adding two to three pounds of N per acre per sunny day after full spring growth begins. Usually, N contribution by early bloom (10-25 percent) stage warrants killing the legume, rather than accepting yield loss due to late planting to get marginally more N at seed set or natural dry down after seed set. Cutting hairy vetch close to the ground at full bloom stage usually will kill it. However, waiting this long means it will have maximum top growth, and the tangled mass of mature vetch can overwhelm many smaller mowers or disks. Flail mowing before tillage helps, but that is a time- and horsepower-intensive process. Sickle-bar mowers should only be used when the vetch is well supported by a cereal companion crop and the material is dry (351). Heavy disk harrows, rotovators and power spaders can incorporate heavy, unmowed vetch stands. A moldboard plow can turn under large amounts of mowed vetch. Chisel plows and lighter disks can handle vetch killed earlier with herbicides. _________________________________________________________________ End of excerpt from Managing Cover Crops Profitably, 2nd Edition, chapter on hairy vetch. Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 15:21:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA29693 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA04803 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:11:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA04703 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:11:09 -0500 Message-ID: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB062CB59D@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'Harold Reetz'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Science, Technology, and Progress Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:11:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 768 Sanet; One benefit of getting older for people like Harold Reetz and myself is that we can brag about how many years of experience we have. I am going on 35 years of experience in industry and extension work in agriculture, and I find it increasing difficult each year to defend either industry or extension. I think that both groups sincerely believe in what they are doing, but both have become increasingly close-minded to anything that seems to threaten their traditional ways of thinking and doing things. There are some notable exceptions to the rule, but I haven't seen too many. The sustainable agriculture movement seems to represent such a threat to both industry and extension. Sustainable agriculture in not anti-science, anti-technology, or anti-progress. But answering the obviously legitimate questions of sustainability will require a fundamentally different kind of science than the accepted science of today. A sustainable agriculture will require technologies that work in harmony with nature rather than continue the current futile attempts to conquer nature or at least bring it under control. Perhaps sustainable agriculture can be accurately labeled as anti-industry, but only because the new science and new technology of sustainability will result in something fundamentally different from the industrial model which has dominated the past two centuries. Real progress means moving beyond the past and present to a future that is fundamentally better. Sustainability is not about going back, but rather is about truly going forward -- instead of remaining stuck developing new technologies to support models, paradigms, and worldviews that are hopelessly out of date. Worldviews -- perceptions of how the world works -- are not matters of fact, but rather are matters of belief. You can't prove that any particular worldview is correct and another is false because all methods of proof are based on specific worldviews. All science starts with a foundation of beliefs - with values. Our values reflect our beliefs about how we think the word works - our worldview. The currently accepted "scientific method" is based one specific worldview. It has been widely accepted because a lot of "scientists" - over the past four centuries or so - have believed in that particular worldview. But, a lot of people believing in something doesn't necessarily make it true. A lot of people believed the clerical scholars of old possessed the only true worldview before this thing we now call science was conceived. People back then accepted this new thing called science because a lot of what the clerics were telling them just didn't make sense anymore. Today, a lot of people are becoming skeptical of, if not outright rejecting, what we now label as science because it simply doesn't make sense anymore. We need a new science that makes sense in a world where our common sense tells us that we humans are both capable of and inclined toward destroying the living global ecosystem of which we ourselves are a part. The new, still evolving, worldview is one of a living, dynamic, interrelated global ecosystem operating according to inviolate principles of nature - including human nature. Thus, the new science must be a science that is appropriate for such a living system, of which people are but a part. The old science, even according to its creators, applies only to "dead" things. The old science views people as something apart from the rest of the world. The new science must value people, but people as a part of the larger whole. The new technologies must create opportunities for people to lead productive successful lives, rather than simply replace people with computers and robots. New science and technologies must with work in harmony with nature, including human nature, rather than attempt to conquer and control nature for our sole benefit. Forcing people off of farms for purely economic reasons makes sense to those who hold the old worldview, but not to those of us who now have a fundamentally different view of reality. "Freeing" people from farming - or from anything else that requires thinking or any manual work - makes sense to those who hold the old worldview, but doesn't make sense to those of us who now hold different values. Attempting to dominate nature, and to thereby control markets and peoples' livelihoods, through use of GMOs may make sense to those who hold the old worldview, but doesn't make sense to a lot of the rest of us. And attempting to "feed the world with pesticides and plastic," as advocated by Denis Avery and his followers in the Land Grant system, may make sense to "old-think scientists" but it doesn't make sense to those who believe we must use new ways of thinking. The world's hungry are no more likely to be well fed in the future that than they have been in the past as long as we continue view technology, society, economics, and politics as separate components of some sophisticated machine, rather than as critically interrelated organs of a living system. Once a person is able to shake off the old "dead world" belief system, it becomes obvious that the science and technologies that support the industrialization of agriculture do not make sense anymore. The industrial system, quite simply, is not sustainable - no matter what new technologies may be developed to support it. We don't necessarily need to be ashamed of what has been done, or even what we may have done, in the past. People generally do the best they can, given their current level of understanding of reality. But, we shouldn't refuse to open our minds to the possibility of new paradigms, new models, even new worldviews, simply because we have spent most of our lives believing and working in ways that may now, quite logically, be out of date. It's not the sustainable agriculture folks who are clinging to the past, it's the agricultural establishment, including industry, extension, and science. In general, the discussions that take place on "sanet" represent challenges to the old ways of thinking. Perhaps there isn't a balance of challenges to and defenses of the old ways of thinking and doing. But, there is more than adequate defense of the status quo elsewhere. The discussion should remain open and civil to those with all worldviews or belief systems. But, a concern for balance should not preclude or even discourage continuing challenges to either the old science or the new technologies of industrialization. Such discussions motivate the development of the new ideas and concepts that will be needed to sustain agriculture and thereby make possible the sustaining of humanity. John Ikerd To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 15:41:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00021 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA17610 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:31:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17495 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:31:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA11887 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA29649; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:31:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199905131831.NAA29649@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:31:11 -0500 Subject: Brucellosis in bison/MT CC: graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 769 Thought this might interest some of you. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BRUCELLOSIS, BISON - USA (MONTANA): CONTROL *************************** A ProMED-mail post Date 6 May 1999 From: "Marjorie P. Pollack, M.D." Source: AP Online [edited] A federal appeals court refused Thursday to stop Montana from slaughtering bison outside Yellowstone National Park to prevent the animals from infecting cattle with brucellosis, a serious livestock disease. Bison leave Yellowstone in search of winter forage. About half test positive for brucellosis, a disease that can cause cows to abort and, in rare cases, can spread to humans and cause a recurring fever. In a one-sentence ruling, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a federal judge's decision allowing the state and the National Park Service to continue killing bison as they have for the last 3 winters. More than 1200 bison that left Yellowstone have been shot or shipped to slaughter in the last 3 years, mostly in the winter of 1996-97. Environmental groups challenging the plan contended there was no evidence the disease could spread from Yellowstone bison to cattle grazing on neighboring land. Also, they contended the slaughter conflicts with the designated role of the park as a wildlife sanctuary. John Bloomquist, the state's lawyer, told the court in a hearing last month that the state's stringent measures for controlling brucellosis have protected the cattle industry. Justice Department lawyer Andrew Mergen said at the same hearing brucellosis, target of a $1 billion government eradication program, has been eliminated virtually everywhere but among Yellowstone bison. - -- ProMED-mail <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In the towers of steel, belief goes on and on in this heartland, in this heartland soil. --U2 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 15:44:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00100 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20220 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:40:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20169 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12048 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24955; Thu, 13 May 1999 14:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001001be9d6f$a7eb50e0$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: , "Charles Benbrook" Subject: Re: Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:36:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 770 Dear Chuck Benbrook: I think a previous message explained the meaning of an "incompletely dominant autosomal" gene. The significance of this finding is that all the strategies for Bt resistance management are based on the assumption that resistance to Bt will be recessive. I gather from the paper in Science that it is still possible that the resistance might be functionally recessive at high doses. Part of the rationale for high doses with high expression through as much of the plant as possible was to increase the likelihood that resistance genes would be rare and functionally recessive. I assume the authors of this paper are working on determining the level of resistance this laboratory-selected strain has to the various Bt-transformed products and how that resistance (if it even is apparent at that high dose) is inherited. The assumption that the resistance would be recessive is the basis for specifying refugia. The recessive gene would have no effect on survival of the corn borer unless it is present in two copies. The refugia would produce susceptible corn borers (because there is no selection for resistance to Bt there) to mate with any individual survivor with two copies of the gene for resistance. If the gene for resistance is recessive, those offspring of the matings between susceptible and resistant individuals would be susceptible and would not survive on a Bt-transformed plant, and would thus have no advantage in fitness. If the gene for resistance is completely dominant, the offspring of matings between susceptible and resistant individuals would be just as resistant as the resistant parent and would survive just as well. If the gene for resistance is incompletely dominant, the offspring between a parent with 2 genes for resistance and another parent with two genes for susceptibility would have some resistance to Bt, but not as much as if it had two genes for resistance. So, having refugia would not help much with resistance management. It is not clear what *would* help with resistance management in this situation. For the answer to that, I would turn to someone like Fred Gould (entomologist at North Carolina State University), who knows how to make models to answer complex questions of population genetics. I bet he and other modelers are already working on it. To turn to the more entomological questions in your post: Insects (in this case, moths, since they are the only insects affected by this kind of Bt) of corn that attack fruit and vegetable crops -- there several of them, and they attack lots of crops. European corn borers are major pests of sweet corn, of course, and there have been excellent efforts to use Bt for managing them in sweet corn. University of Massachusetts (Dr. David Ferro and Ruth Hazzard) has done good work on this. ECB is also an important pest of peppers and snap beans, and a minor pest of potato and apple. But, because it feeds on such a wide range of crop plants (the book in front of me -- European Corn Borer, Development and Namagement, North Central Regional Extension Publication No. 327 from May 1989-- mentions cotton, lima bean, soybean, small grains, sorghum, tomato, and onion), you have to be concerned about the possibility of exchange of resistant individuals among crops. I don't think the movement of ECB is well understood -- and neither is diversity within the species. There are different "strains" of ECB -- in terms of which pheromone blends they respond to, whether they have one or two generations per year, and in terms of host plant preferences. But the relationship, if any, between these characteristics identifying strains is unclear. The corn earworm also feeds on a very wide range of host plants. It overwinters in the south and migrates north each year, so there is clearly movement on a regional scale, and within a region there are massive movements from one crop to another. At North Carolina State there is a model of corn earworm population dynamics and movement between crops, developed by Dr. Ron Stinner, which also provides the basis for Fred Gould's models. Corn earworm is a major pest of tomatoes, cotton, and soybean. In addition, there are numerous cutworms and armyworms that occur in corn, but are generalist feeders. Any of these could upset pest management plans in vegetables based on the use of Bt. Hope this is helpful. Kimberly A. Stoner CT Agricultural Experiment Station P.O. Box 1106 New Haven, CT 06504 > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 17:12:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA02445 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA22134 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:24:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22027 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14053 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.50]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:24:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199905131522390560.00CDD635@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <199905131831.NAA29649@aae.wisc.edu> References: <199905131831.NAA29649@aae.wisc.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:22:39 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Brucellosis in bison/MT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA22042 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 771 This is very strange because brucellosis is strictly a venereal disease in cattle. Are the bison mating with cows? There's no other way the cattle are going to get it. People (on the other hand) can get it from raw meat or from direct contact with the cow's reproductive system (a vet friend got it inseminating w/o gloves, for instance - it'll pass the skin) and butchers and slaughterhouse workers are at risk - cooks too, I guess. But the inflammation concentrates mainly in the reproductive system, although some research indicates that it isn't venereal in humans. In short, cows that graze with with buffalos will not get it - the buffalo would have to mount the cow (or a bull, the buffalo cow). That's how it's transmitted. So if there's no cross breeding, why kill them? (For that matter, why were so many killed and left to rot by passengers riding in the first transcontinental trains? Does history tend to repeat itself? Does karma exist and exert a force? Is the devil at work? What is this garbage)? DH - nothing more follows (you want more)? On 13/05/99 at 1:31 PM Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison wrote: >Thought this might interest some of you. > >A federal appeals court refused Thursday to stop Montana from >slaughtering bison outside Yellowstone National Park to prevent the >animals from infecting cattle with brucellosis, a serious livestock >disease. Bison leave Yellowstone in search of winter forage. About >half test positive for brucellosis, a disease that can cause cows to >abort and, in rare cases, can spread to humans and cause a recurring >fever. > >In a one-sentence ruling, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals >upheld a federal judge's decision allowing the state and the National >Park Service to continue killing bison as they have for the last 3 >winters. > >More than 1200 bison that left Yellowstone have been shot or shipped >to slaughter in the last 3 years, mostly in the winter of 1996-97. > >Environmental groups challenging the plan contended there was no >evidence the disease could spread from Yellowstone bison to cattle >grazing on neighboring land. Also, they contended the slaughter >conflicts with the designated role of the park as a wildlife >sanctuary. > >John Bloomquist, the state's lawyer, told the court in a hearing >last month that the state's stringent measures for controlling >brucellosis have protected the cattle industry. > >Justice Department lawyer Andrew Mergen said at the same hearing >brucellosis, target of a $1 billion government eradication program, >has been eliminated virtually everywhere but among Yellowstone >bison. > >- -- >ProMED-mail ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager >Center for Integrated Ag Systems >UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences >Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 >http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >In the towers of steel, belief goes on and on >in this heartland, in this heartland soil. --U2 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 17:14:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA02506 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA24252 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:27:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA24246 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.50]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:26:43 -0500 Message-ID: <199905131525170150.00D03DF6@acnet.net> References: <199905131503270390.00BC40E0@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:03:27 -0600 From: "Douglas M.Hinds" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA24248 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 772 (Redirected by "Douglas M. Hinds" ) *********** BEGIN REDIRECTED MESSAGE *********** I just saw this (email overload). *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 13/05/99 at 2:07 PM Bob MacGregor wrote: >DH, >You said, "....Therefore, genetic crosses MAY be >good, while GMO's are inherently bad except as needed (really needed) to compensate for a >worse condition, such as a rare and inherent defect. >" > >Here is where we part company. Bob, that's not true. This is your email I am answering. You are keeping me company. >For years, plant and animal breeders have bred for physical, production, shipping/handling, processing and nutritional characteristics which have nothing to do with correcting any real defect in the existing varieties. The "improvement" resulting from these breeding programs may be cosmetic only. Yeah some people do that. >Why is GE inherently bad? It's invasive when that's not needed. It's unpredictable and unnecessary. It's not nice. And some other reasons I might add later. >Is this a religious/phiolosophical statement or is it supportable by evidence that GMO's are harmful -- compared to conventionally-bred plants and animals? Evidence? You want evidence? Sorry, I'm not giving out evidence today, just opinions. Or pronouncements, if you prefer. My posts clearly indicate that this is clearly a gut issue - but one that can be backed by more religious, philosophical, physiological and what have you data than you can shake a stick at. You said it yourself: "Why take the risk?" (You COULD have said that). What you DID say was: >So far, at least, the ag. GE folks are using naturally-occuring genes; they haven't synthesized completely novel ones to any degree. For many years, plant breeders have used chemical and radiation treatments to induce random mutations in plants, then screened for "improved" characteristics to breed into commercial lines; this mimics natural processes, but are these alleles "synthetic"; are they dangerous? Who assesses the risk of letting them loose in fields? That's a good point. Doing that isn't genetics or science. It's barbaric. It shouldn't be done. What I want is for the money, time and effort to be spent on genetic research and development that is consonant with evolution. I think that too much of the motivation is going into proprietary (no just GM) organisms. I want to see something more in the way of a real contribution and less of an economically exploitable (but freak) product. I am not getting that intellectual about this issue. I don't even want to debate it. I'm just having a little fun with it and I'll tell ya something - I don't even eat fruit from grafted trees - (try doing that in the U.S. I've had grove owners in the LRGV tell me that you can't even GROW fruit trees from seed. Absolutely incredible ignorance. I am laughing my head off as I write this - but there is something seriously and gravely wrong with the U.S. produce industry and food supply, especially in relation to tree fruit). The point is, **I** put my money where my mouth is. I mean what I say and do what I say should be done. >I don't think the herbicide resistance example is a good one. Suppose someone wanted to take the time to expose generations of canola plants to various concentrations of glyphosate until a resistant gene showed up which could be conventionally-bred into any number of canola lines? We wouldn't be any better or worse off except that this process is a lot faster with GE. See, we agree. but I don't want nor will I use a canola plant that's resistant to glyphosate because I'm not using glyphosate either. So it's a mute issue. >Now, suppose we need a really useful trait (I don't put RR in this category because of its inherent unsustainability) more quickly than breeding programs can isolate and propogate it -- say in five years instead of ten or twenty? GE would be the only viable route. Bob you are making a shirt load of assumptions I just don't share. We gotta get specific. >Because nature isn't static, nor perfect (at least from the perspective of human needs and wants), we can't sit back and go with the status quo. At the very least, we have to look forward to and plan for a time of dramatically more expensive inputs that are derived from fossil fuels. Rising public appreciation for the documented harmful effects of many farm chemicals (and engendered sentiment against even the least harmful of these) will likely continue to drive demand for organic products -- well in advance of rising input costs forcing conversion to more sustainable practices. Yeah, it should be for other reasons - like quality of life. >I just don't consider GE technology inherently malignant -- and certainly not useless for introducing traits that producers, shippers, processors, AND consumers find desirable. GE is not inherently benign technology, either. I have said that it's place is therapeutic, and only where really needed. >Give Saddam Hussein a good gene lab and see what he can brew up!! Bob, I am not going to give Saddam Hussein anything. Clinton may give him a bomb though - on the nose. >As long as we have so many scary hypotheses about the dangers of GE floating around, people will naturally take the familiar (and presumed-safe) path. The GE advocates should be just as anxious as the opponents to see that credible risk assessment work is carried out to dispell our state of ignorance about these things -- we can't hope to make informed choices in an atmosphere of confusion about how risky this techology's products are compared to the alternatives -- in the meantime, we just spin our wheels...(sort of like the discussions on SANET and other, similar lists) >Regards, >BOB Yes, you are being reasonable. But sanet is sanet and I want to see the money, time and effort going to working with and within the principles of evolutionary biological ag and biological processes. I'm not in a hurry to get somewhere I don't even want to go to. I can live and work with what we've got. I'm not spinning my wheels or buying GM seed or food. I'm not even debating this much. I'm just thoroughly and totally right. Don't you agree? I would kind of like to post this (so everyone else can see how reasonable and civilized we are). Bob, are you getting paid for the time taken to do these posts? Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx *********** END REDIRECTED MESSAGE *********** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 17:20:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA02647 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01720 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:42:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sophri.oxy.edu (root@sophri.cc.oxy.edu [134.69.3.111]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01530 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from temp1.ipac.oxy.edu (ipac-something1.ipac.oxy.edu [134.69.11.79]) by sophri.oxy.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23927; Thu, 13 May 1999 13:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990513133755.00862630@pop.oxy.edu> X-Sender: ehiggins@pop.oxy.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 13:37:55 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, owner-comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, arcudi@compusverve.com, akorn@ibm.net, anand40@hotmail.com, curleya@serinocoyne.com, ASFisher@aol.com, gottlieb@oxy.edu, justfood@igc.apc.org, lteusink@yahoo.com, dmichon@juno.com, coaxil@aol.com, luchasan@aol.com, mofford@oxy.edu, mkielty@hotmail.com, mm@oxy.edu, hfrc3@earthlink.net, milstein@pipeline.com, lauratich@aol.com, mlewey2@aol.com, heyangy@aol.com, captaindog@prodigy.net, bnjgold@ix.netcom.com, abrown@oxy.edu, asmith@creative.net, mteusink@yahoo.com, daynak83@hotmail.com, abondoc@mindspring.com, shellworks@mindspring.com, ben@windowbox.com From: Erika Higgins Subject: gardens in NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 773 A Victory for all gardeners! Thank you divine Miss M!!! (from the New York Times - 5/13/99) A day before the Giuliani administration was to auction off city-owned lots that had been transformed into community gardens, the performer Bette Midler had her private conservation organization agree to buy dozens of the less desirable parcels, providing the final financing to preserve all 112 gardens that were set for sale. The 11th-hour announcement ended a long-running dispute between city officials who said the parcels were ripe for sale and residents who viewed themselves as gardeners tending to verdant oases in neighborhoods of concrete and steel. But the fate of more than 600 other lots that were not part of the auction remains unclear. Nevertheless, the $1.2 million purchase of 51 lots by the New York Restoration Project -- arranged by a singer and actress better known for her engaging flamboyance than for her diplomatic skills -- provided a vital piece in the city's negotiations with environmental groups. The offer cleared the way for another conservation group, the Trust for Public Land, to buy the rest of the 112 parcels for $3 million, a figure that included an additional $1 million from Ms. Midler's organization. According to the deal, the two organizations are to work out plans to turn over the properties to the community groups that tend to the gardens. If the properties are ever used for anything other than gardens, ownership will revert to the city, said Deputy Mayor Randy Levine, who helped in the negotiations. ------------------------------- Erika Higgins ehiggins@oxy.edu 323-259-1426 Community Food Security Project Occidental College To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 17:21:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA02655 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA29212 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:40:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.ppi-far.org (mail.ppi-far.org [198.78.10.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA29130 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:39:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 13 May 1999 16:40:11 -0400 Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from ibm770 (206.185.4.122::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 13 May 1999 16:40:10 -0400 From: "Harold Reetz" To: , Subject: Shared Beliefs and Motivations/Different Interpretations Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:39:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01be9d80$b8c44dc0$43fdfea9@ibm770> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 774 Alex: Thanks for your comments. I think we share many beliefs and motivations, just have different interpretations on how they sort out. I have always felt the work I have done as a farmer, educator and scientist has been in support of maintaining or improving the soil and other resources, and agriculture as a business and as a way of life. It sounds like you are on the same page. I do have direct daily contact with farmers and those who support farmers and feel I have a pretty good understanding of what their needs and goals are....and what problems they face in sustaining their business. I appreciate the open discussion on this topic the last 24 hours....and a series of personal e-mails it has generated. My high school math teacher used to say there are many ways to get to Cissna Park ( a nearby town). Similarly there are many approaches to sustainability in agriculture. I have always tried to be open minded to different opinions. In the late 1970s I was an active participant in a small farm project in Minnesota that was a precursor to some of the sustainable ag movement of the 1980s and 1990s. It was great for the small farmers and worked for special market needs. But the model broke down quickly when you tried to extend it to broad-scale production and markets. Let's not lose the open dialog. Let's continue to explore alternatives to common practice. But also, let's be realistic about the claims for alternative systems and the criticisms of current practice. Harold Reetz Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research 111 East Washington Street Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 Phone: 217-762-2074 FAX: 217-762-8655 e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 17:41:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03010 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA08800 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:54:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08752 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14809 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA03889 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:54:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199905132054.PAA03889@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:54:21 -0500 Subject: The latest critique of SANET In-reply-to: <002a01be9cfb$2f2aa1c0$cba7fea9@ibm770> References: <199905121703.NAA08663@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 775 Howdy, all-- I wanted to commend Howard Reetz on his willingness to offer opinions that are not (in his estimation) in the majority in this discussion group. At the same time, I'm not sure why he'd be disappointed to learn that there is a circle where people have opinions or viewpoints that are different than his. In my experience as an educational and agricultural communicator (23 and 10 years, respectively, since we're showing our tenure tattoos), there are many more places to find opinions and viewpoints about science and industry that--as someone already pointed out--serve as boosterism for a certain vision of science and industry. But do not invite opportunities for creative rethinking of assumptions, as SANET does. > After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I > find it difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" > that are included in this "list" without responding. It appears > that this is really a forum for the anti-science, anti-industry > people to post their ideas and their attacks on science and > industry. I would like to know who here is anti-science. "Science" comes from the Latin /scire/, which means "to know." In my seven-plus years on this list, I have witnessed many thoughtful people, working hard to know their world, themselves, and their community better. "Science" is not a monolithic construct. It is a complex human enterprise, whose methods change over time, whose epistemologies are open to reinterpretation, and whose established findings are open to retesting and falsification. (In the Popperian sense.) The implication that science is not open to critique, rethinking, or challenge smacks of an historically earlier attitude about another institution, called religion. And the implication that anything that questions science cannot be rational makes rationality the sole provenance of science--a common enough assumption in this age, but quite flawed. Harold, SANET is an Internet list server, where diverse people share their thoughts. Those thoughts are not, contrary to your assertions, a unified perspective. You may see a unity in that you disagree with many perspectives here--but all that implies is a unity in *your* perspective. I.e., that you think a certain way and few subscribers here may agree with that. But the thousand or more people on this list are very diverse, and some portion of them changes regularly, as people subscribe and unsubscribe. If you want a unified perspective that agrees with your own, I'm sure there are plenty of media--including industry trade publications--that would qualify. I understand that it can be frustrating and daunting to learn about communities of people where ideas are expressed that do not agree with one's own. But that seems to be more a limitation of one's own tolerance than of others' expression. > Comments such as the importance of "values" in addition to > science....implying that the progress we have made in agriculture > has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be a > general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about > GMOs and other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. There are those in the SANET circle who believe GMO is a bad thing. There are those here who haven't yet formed an opinion. There are those here who believe it could have benefits. I can't believe that you're suggesting that this list should have as its purpose the quashing any thinking or expression that doesn't agree with your own. Nor the artificial creation of a unified perspective, when this medium is clearly not for that. This is a discussion area. And one of the few ones that encourages wide-ranging expression. > I had hoped this was a forum for a more balanced discussion and > assessment of facts. I guess that is asking too much. You are a new subscriber. Stick around a few years, and you'll see that this also happens. Perhaps not to your 100% satisfaction, but do remember that your needs and wants are not the only thing at issue in this circle. There've been times, over the years, folks have criticized this list because it hasn't provided them with the thing they thought it should. Yet, instead of sticking around and taking responsibility for facilitating that thread of discussion or assessment, it tends to happen that people holler, loudly, about what's NOT happening. And then either fall silent, or go off and start their own discussion groups, or whatever. One is left with the impression that they came here to be agreed with, rather than to engage in dialogue. I suppose approval is a good thing...but it, like reactionary disagreement, rarely fosters creative growth. > But I am concerned about the comments that the new technologies in > agriculture are creating hazards and quality problems when there > is no evidence to support such claims. Again, stick around awhile, and be open to receiving and considering such evidence when it's presented. If you have it in your head that you are right, a priori, and that certain others are wrong, this will not prove to be a comfortable discursive community for you. Of course, there are those on this list who take that position as the Resident Contrarians, but I digress. :^) Challenging ideas is part of what happens here. If you a priori believe that evidence offered from perspectives you don't share therefore doesn't exist...well, there's not much anyone can do about that. You are entitled to your perspectives. You are entitled to deny the existence of those that you disagree with. Like any communications technology, he Internet can be used as a powerful buttress for solipsism, as well as for challenging, shaping, and re-forming one's thoughts. > Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember > in the "good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not > nearly so much a result of technology as it is our nations desire > to have cheap, abundant and healthy food. We use technology to > accomplish that better than any other nation in the world. Our > success makes it possible for 98% of our population to NOT live on > the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for the science and > technology and the large-scale intensive production systems we have > implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced > into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who > do grow it. Your use of "we" here disturbs me. You are speaking, apparently, for a collectivity whose membership is not clear. I know you're not speaking for me. Nor for many of the farmers I have worked with for the past ten years in the Upper Midwest. Many of those farmers and aspirants to that profession, would not consider growing food to be something they were "forced" to do. They consider it dignified, meaningful, soul-nourishing, community-building work. Not something to be escaped. And one of their premier critiques of industrial farming is that it did in fact alienate many people from agrarian lifestyles and communities that sustained them. And this supplanting happened in the name of profit, progress, and efficiency. Whose values are those? > I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and > disease problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. Doing it > with GMOs, with cultural practices, and overall systems management, > we have a great story to tell. There is apparently a certain > population who feel obliged to attack progress. They fought > pesticides and when we replaced pesticide use with GMOs, many of > the same people jumped from the anti-pesticide bandwagon to the > anti-GMO bandwagon. I can empathize with your frustration if you feel that you are an agent of technological progress for which you deserve reward and thanks. I recall how frustrating it was for Green Revolution scientists to have their thinking challenged around things like the introduction of pesticides and high-tech, high-capital farming into nations that could not sustain that. I am hearing some similar-appearing frustrations coming from the proponents of industrial GMO technology. I.e., "we" are trying to solve the world's problems--why are you criticizing us? Harold, I don't know what to say about that other than remind you we live in a free and open democratic society, where the questioning of *any* set of ideas or values or actions is not only allowed, but part of the fabric of this democracy. It is the creative tension of rethinking and questioning that forms the most basic value of all: free thinking. No one group of people holds a monopoly on the truth--though you can bet there are intellectual property lawyers out there who will try to run fence around even that one, eventually. Truth is a collective enterprise, and it involves all kinds of discourse. I doubt that those who founded this nation were foreseeing the day when corporations would foist proprietary techniques on the citizenry, claiming it was for some greater good, without actually checking that perception with those these techniques would affect. Nor checking whether they, the citizenry, agree it is indeed for their greater good. Never mind wilfully ignoring citizens' perceptions that they simply do not agree with the technocracy. However, I'm sure that all of them--from John Langdon thru Abraham Baldwin--would take exception to the common assumption today: that if a representative of a corporation, institution, or other powerful organization SAYS a technology is good for everyone, then folks are supposed to shut up and do as they're told. And I'd bet that they'd take huge umbrage at the idea that common people, with common sense, cannot think scientifically, nor provide meaningful critique of the science of the experts. > Another comment in this thread points out that many of the world's > food problems are political, rather than production problems. That > is true. And the kind of discussions this thread is fostering help > to support those political problems. You seem to assume that "production problems" are apolitical. "Politics" derives from a Greek word meaning "citizen," later generalized to the Latin word for government. In a democratic society, the relationships and agreements between people--how they agree to negotiate, share, and disburse power--is the fundamental aspect of politics. Human relationships will govern how "production" is conceived, designed, and executed. My concern--which I've voiced many times in this circle--is that this aspect of the big picture is being forgotten: we live in a democratic, diverse society. Having more money or more power or more degrees or more branch offices or more PR staff or whatever doesn't mean doodly squish when you live in a society where citizens are allowed to say what they think. Including that they don't want any parts of GMOs. Including their perception that certain agricultural interests are in the game for money, power, prestige, and influence. Including their unwillingness to have powerful people speak for their interests. I've been thinking about this one a lot. Harold, a lot of the farmers I work with earn less than $28,000 a year, are listened to by no one but their neighbors, have no agenda of changing the world, and are constantly ridiculed and ignored, either for the content of their thinking or the way they express it. I ask you: would you do, and keep doing, your current job if you were making $28,000 a year or less? Would you do it if no one listened to you, or didn't feel your degrees or position meant anything? Would you do your current job if you knew that you weren't changing the World, but rather some small quarter-section of it? And then you weren't so sure about that? Would you do your current job if no one took your thoughts, opinions, or perspectives seriously? Think about it, please. Set aside your fixed assumptions. Including your assumptions about the writers of the words you disagree with here. And then return to SANET, and try LISTENING to what the farmers, inspectors, processors, activists, policy makers, etc., on this list are saying. I believe--based on years of experience here--that there are many valuable ideas exchanged in this group. I believe you will find that to be the case. They may not be *your* ideas, nor ones you immediately agree with or understand. But value is not measured in this way. > There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. > Dennis has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of > technology, much more of the world's natural forest ecosystems > would be turned into food production. Since the debunking of several of his ostensibly "scientific" assertions (most recently, his comments on E. coli in organic food), you will find many people here not willing to take his word on much of anything. Except, perhaps, his self-proclaimed role as "contrarian." > Our high yield management systems in the US can do much more to > help save the rain forests and deserts and to protect fragile > ecosystems than any other option we have before us. Most of our > food crops could not survive in nature. Most of our agriculture > could not survive without continuous infusion of technology. It is > our success with technology that gives us the abundance and > efficiency that allows more people to NOT be involved in food > production. I doubt that you will find a large percentage of the > 98% non-producers who would trade their life styles with going back > to producing their own food. You are setting up a big Man Of Straw here. We at CIAS are constantly swamped with requests for information, training, mentoring, internships, etc., from people who would love to produce food for themselves and others. I had this same experience over ten years as a community gardening activist in Wisconsin. In the portion of each year that I spend in California, I see the same thing in the cities, suburbs, and rural areas there. Is it a "large" percentage? Damned if I know, but it's a sight more people than I can help very effectively in a given month. Look at your assumptions, Harold. These people who come to us for assistance in getting into farming don't see growing as "going back." They see it as going forward, into a future where their food security is not dependent upon the dicta and perspectives of ever-fewer increasingly powerful corporations whose main goal is an ROI to pass along to stockholders. Or institutions whose decision makers wouldn't know what end of a seed to put in the ground first if you dug the hole for them. They see growing food as an act of grace, of connection, and of human dignity. They don't see it as a "trade" of anything. Except maybe the time they'd otherwise spend consuming pointless, soul-murdering consumer drek through their eyes and ears. And may I remind you of the many millions of people who *do* produce their own food, but are not counted as farmers by the statistics folks? > Maybe instead of complaining about the direction of this list, I > should just remove my name from it. For now, thanks for letting me > vent my concerns. You have the option both to withdraw from communications that trouble you...as well as becoming part of that, both as a "venter"...and as a listener. I would like to invite you to stick around for a year or two. Stretch your tolerance a bit. You might learn something here. And so might we, from you. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and also for considering mine. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such trifling investment of fact. --Mark Twain To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 18:23:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA03731 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA05962 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:32:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05958 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.130]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA04966 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:29:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990513163109.006f0a7c@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:31:09 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: Cover Crop Incorporation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA05959 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 776 SANET: Floyd Johnson wrote: (snip) > But for the >microbes is the residue better on top or incorporated in top 6" or >deeper?We are trying to build our soil organic matter to 5% or more... > Dear Floyd Well now you gotten more advice of all kinds than you'll be able to figure out what to do with. I know nothing about farming where you are and so don't really have any advice, but I have been interested in the question you raise about microbial decomposition and have seen some of the answers play out in farms and gardens in Mexico. These are in tropical lowlands and tropical mountains, so conditions are really very different from yours. It seems that leaving residue on the surface, all things being equal, has a more beneficial effect on soil structure than incorporating residues into the soil. Note that I'm talking about soil structure, or crumb structure, not organic matter content. Soil structure is more directly important to plant (especially root) growth than is OM content. The reason for this is that soil structure is maintained primarily by colloids (mucous-like organic substances) that are the byproduct of aerobic cellulose decomposition by fungi and bacteria (both). One bacteria, Spirocheta, is especially important in this, but several organisms are actually involved. So breakdown on the surface is basically aerobic and causes this microbial gel to rain down into the soil, sticking the particles of clay and organic matter together making a nice crumby structure where roots grow freely and water and air reach down several inches into the soil. There are some other details, but that is basically how it works. This would suggest that your goal should be to have a better, deeper structure rather than to have a certain % of OM. The important thing to get here is that crumb structure is not a physical or chemical *property* of soil, but a *process* that depends on microbial action and a source of raw OM as food. As soon as the OM disappears, the microbial action stops, the crumbs dissolve and the soil becomes compacted, even if you don't run a tractor over it. (Think of a forest continually raining leaves onto the soil). All you need to keep soil nice is a constant supply of raw OM and the proper conditions for its breakdown, maybe some earthworms and such..you don't usually need plows, or rototillers or choppers or any of that stuff. In a soil with poor structure, i.e. compacted, mulching like this seems to work better to improve structure. But in soils with good structure, root decompostion works better for maintaining a good structure. Since the roots have access to air in a crumby soil, it is not anerobic decomposition that is taking place, so the colloids are formed to maintain structure. In either case, it should not be necessary to incorporate residues into the soil by cultivation. ( Some people like to disk the residues in 3 o 4 inches so they don't get in the way of planting etc.--but it should be no deeper than that.) A soil with crumb structure is actually a two-phase, aerobic-anerobic system. The surface of the particles are exposed to air, while inside there are increasingly anerobic microniches. This allows products to be passed from one phase to another, fermtenation products such as fatty acids, ethylene, etc., can form in anerobic environments and then get oxidized by aerobic organisms. This is the sign of a healthy, productive soil. I have see farmers put this into practice in the tropics, where leaving residues on the soil surface--just mowing the cover crop at the proper time--gives us the additional advantage of protecting the soil against torrential rains which we get frequently. Even fertile soils in the tropics rarely build up much OM (1-or 2% maximum) because of the hot, humid conditions; microbial breakdown is just too fast for much humus to form. But organic grain farmers in Nebraska have also told me that they feel leaving residues on the surface gives better results. (One more point: Elaine Ingham talks about a rough balance between fungi and bacteria in agricultural soils, while fungi dominate in forests and bacteria in pastures. Remember this is just an overall rule of thumb--both kinds of organisms are always present and are important.) I'll be interested in hearing how it all works on your place. Regards. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 18:38:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA03978 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA20286 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:58:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA20271 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15967 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 17:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:57:45 -0500 Message-ID: <199905131656200090.01239CA5@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <199905131831.NAA29649@aae.wisc.edu> References: <199905131831.NAA29649@aae.wisc.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:56:20 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz Subject: Re: Brucellosis in bison/MT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA20272 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 777 Reflections on why Yellowstone National Park bison are being slaughtered: 1).- They are bison, not cows (wild, free, independent hairy beasts). 2).- They MIGHT have brucellosis 3).- One of them that has brucellosis MIGHT copulate with a cow (at least sombody thinks so). 4).- They were hungry and left the National Park in search of food, where they're fair game. 5).- They don't have owners (to defend them or collect for the loss of this "property"). 6).- They can't defend themselves (they can't shoot back or even litigate). 7).- The people who do it have guns. 8).- The people who are doing it like to kill bisons and found an unplausible but good enough (to get away with it so far) pretext to do so. It will do no good to arm the bisons as their hooves prevent them from pulling a trigger and in any case, some are pacific and the rest not good strategists. On the other hand, there are PEOPLE who do that rather well, and some of em might want to mix it up a little in defense of our good old noble bison buddies . Friends of the Bisons, The Bison Brigade, The Bison Defense League, The Buffalo Protection Association, The Bison Shepherds (BS) Society (you get the picture): To counterbalance "Bison Control"; The Friends of the Bison Patrol. Anybody think I'm kidding? What comes after the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals? (The judges that sit on that bench get paid to make that kind of "quality" decision? Are they elected or appointed functionaries? Are they tested for senility? Are they tested for anything? Apparently ANYBODY can get to be one. Anyboy have an email address for them)? Or where does this go next? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >BRUCELLOSIS, BISON - USA (MONTANA): CONTROL >*************************** > >A federal appeals court refused Thursday to stop Montana from >slaughtering bison outside Yellowstone National Park to prevent the >animals from infecting cattle with brucellosis, a serious livestock >disease. Bison leave Yellowstone in search of winter forage. About >half test positive for brucellosis, a disease that can cause cows to >abort and, in rare cases, can spread to humans and cause a recurring >fever. > >In a one-sentence ruling, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals >upheld a federal judge's decision allowing the state and the National >Park Service to continue killing bison as they have for the last 3 >winters. > >More than 1200 bison that left Yellowstone have been shot or shipped >to slaughter in the last 3 years, mostly in the winter of 1996-97. > >Environmental groups challenging the plan contended there was no >evidence the disease could spread from Yellowstone bison to cattle >grazing on neighboring land. Also, they contended the slaughter >conflicts with the designated role of the park as a wildlife >sanctuary. > >John Bloomquist, the state's lawyer, told the court in a hearing >last month that the state's stringent measures for controlling >brucellosis have protected the cattle industry. > >Justice Department lawyer Andrew Mergen said at the same hearing >brucellosis, target of a $1 billion government eradication program, >has been eliminated virtually everywhere but among Yellowstone >bison. > >- -- >ProMED-mail ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager >Center for Integrated Ag Systems >UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences >Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 >http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >In the towers of steel, belief goes on and on >in this heartland, in this heartland soil. --U2 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 19:23:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA04653 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA17281 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:37:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA17277 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool044-max9.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.144]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id KZ39TLKJ; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:37:18 -0400 Message-ID: <373B5679.C082B1A7@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:47:21 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 References: <199905131747.NAA22746@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 778 >that it is a darn good thing that organic yields are generally lower than conventional. This has actually been proven in several long term studies to not be true over the long run- It seems that due to the long term improvements in the soil quality due to organic methods are the primary cause for this- I have the links for the Nature article of the Rodale study should anyone want it. Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org- PS in the long term, organic foods are often cheaper than non organic when grown in diversified systems, - another note that premiums may not last as volume grows To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 20:12:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05383 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 20:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA27701 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:37:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA27490 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17217 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA10388; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:37:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199905132337.SAA10388@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:36:55 -0500 Subject: Brucellosis and bison/URLs CC: cclarke@earthisland.org, mister3d@third-dimension.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 779 Howdy all-- Regarding the item I posted from ProMED regarding the ongoing slaughter of the Yellowstone bison herd, in part: >BRUCELLOSIS, BISON - USA (MONTANA): CONTROL >*************************** > >A federal appeals court refused Thursday to stop Montana from >slaughtering bison outside Yellowstone National Park to prevent the >animals from infecting cattle with brucellosis, a serious livestock >disease. Bison leave Yellowstone in search of winter forage. About >half test positive for brucellosis, a disease that can cause cows to >abort and, in rare cases, can spread to humans and cause a recurring >fever. > >In a one-sentence ruling, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals >upheld a federal judge's decision allowing the state and the National >Park Service to continue killing bison as they have for the last 3 >winters. This AP Online story--as so many major media stories about agriculture or anything west of the Hudson River--implies that the Yellowstone bison have been infecting cattle with brucellosis. Which is playing fast and loose with the facts. Douglas pointed out that the major vector of /Brucella aborta/ transmission is sexual contact, and that bison and cows are not likely to make simpatico lovers. Another vector is the licking of newborn calves (to remove the afterbirth); cows would not be likely to groom newborn bison calves (can't imagine Mama Bison allowing that...). Or the drinking of infected milk (can't imagine Mama Bison nursing a cow...). But what the heck do I know, cheezer and all. :^) The irony here is that cattle were the original carriers of /Brucella aborta/: they infected the bison. Another irony: the Yellowstone elk (wapiti) herd carries /B. aborta/--in higher proportion than the bison herd--as do other animals in the park. I've not been able to uncover a single documented case of a cow in that rangeland contracting brucellosis from those bison. However, I'm still looking. A bison exposed to /B. aborta/ will develop antibodies, which will then cause it to test positive. (Similar to HIV testing--testing for the antibody indicates exposure at some point in the past.) But this doesn't mean that the animal has or can necessarily transmit brucellosis. The test-and-slaughter program, however, makes no such distinctions. I can understand the concern from an epidemiological point of view. I recently overheard a well-heeled Madisonian opine, in a discussion about the head louse outbreak in his child's day care center, "I don't see why they have to report a kid for having just one or two eggs! [nits]" Ah, right; here's a nice pair of pet cockroaches for you. At the same time...well, it's more complicated than that. If interested, check out this interesting detailed discussion from 2/97, appearing in the regional newspaper /High Country News/: http://www.hcn.org/1997/feb17/Index_293.html You can get some earlier and later news on this topic from /HCN/ by using the site's search engine; try "brucellosis." If you'd like to see the program of research that USGS is conducting: http://www.mesc.nbs.gov/research_briefs/Bison_Brucellosis.html Montana State U.--Bozeman's Center for Bison Studies offers this bibliography, /Brucellosis in the American bison, //Bison bison L.// and related wildlife/: http://www.montana.edu/wwwcbs/brucbib.html peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pressure? Pressure was when I was a shoeshine boy trying to make it to America. --Sammy Sosa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 20:30:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05758 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 20:30:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA04345 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:50:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA04271 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:50:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eri.erinet.com (mail1.erinet.com [207.0.229.18]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17419 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp129.green.eri.net [207.90.124.193]) by eri.erinet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1.18) with SMTP id TAA06133; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:50:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001c01be9d9c$9e8c33c0$c17c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" , "Bluestem Associates" Subject: Re: Cover Crop Incorporation Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:59:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 780 Hi Sanetters, On Floyd's problems with incorporating his biomass from the rye and vetch, the tool of choice is Definately a Miller offset disc. You may be able to pull a 13 footer but may have to go down to a 10 footer. Normal conditions, two passes and you can plant. That much mulch and you may need aditional passes. Pulls hard first time or two, but I think you will be pleased. We have used it on Giant Ragweed high as tractor cabs and it worked great!!! ........ (I was pleasantly surprised at the time!) Good Luck Paul Schmitmeyer -----Original Message----- From: Bluestem Associates To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 11:24 AM Subject: Cover Crop Incorporation >On Tue, 11 May 1999 22:41:27 -0500, Floyd Johnson wrote: > >> I am looking for an implement that will incorporate residue (Rye >>(sometimes waist high), hairy vetch, red clover, etc.) into the top 4 >>inches of soil (mostly silt loams) without causing a lot of grief . > >A large part of your problem has been that you're trying to incorporate >rye that is *much* too mature. Ideally you should nail it at about 8 >inches high. Wet springs will certainly mess up that approach. > >The problem with rye taller than about 10 inches isn't the top, but >rather the root balls. They get in the way of planters and can be quite >aggravating if impaled on the rotary hoe. In organic soybean production >the rotary hoe is one of your best friends. By the time rye is waist >high it is fairly slow to digest in the soil, causing another set of >problems. > >Depending on circumstances and time available you could harvest the >tops for bedding/low-grade hay, you could mow/chop them (big flail >mower) and then disc the whole mess in. Or no-till into the stubble >might be an option depending on how far south in the state you are --- >in which case shift your beans to a *higher* group number. That's a bit >counter-intuitive but the later you plant the shorter days you'll have >at key phases in the crop's life, and higher group beans do better with >shorter days. > >The main thing with rye is to get it early in the spring if you >possibly can. It will avoid a lot of the dancing around described in >the previous paragraph. > >Organic farming in a wet season is not a lot of fun --- and you'll look >way worse than the neighbors. On the other hand, *conventional* >farming is more of a challenge in a drought, and your place with look a >bunch better than theirs. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 20:36:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05928 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 20:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA08052 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:55:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08038 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 13 May 1999 18:52:18 -0500 Message-ID: <199905131850540180.018C84BF@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990513133755.00862630@pop.oxy.edu> References: <3.0.5.32.19990513133755.00862630@pop.oxy.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:50:54 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Erika Higgins" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, owner-comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, arcudi@compusverve.com, akorn@ibm.net, anand40@hotmail.com, curleya@serinocoyne.com, ASFisher@aol.com, gottlieb@oxy.edu, justfood@igc.apc.org, lteusink@yahoo.com, dmichon@juno.com, coaxil@aol.com, luchasan@aol.com, mofford@oxy.edu, mkielty@hotmail.com, mm@oxy.edu, hfrc3@earthlink.net, milstein@pipeline.com, lauratich@aol.com, mlewey2@aol.com, heyangy@aol.com, captaindog@prodigy.net, bnjgold@ix.netcom.com, abrown@oxy.edu, asmith@creative.net, mteusink@yahoo.com, daynak83@hotmail.com, abondoc@mindspring.com, shellworks@mindspring.com, ben@windowbox.com Subject: Re: gardens in NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA08039 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 781 Is Bette Midler a New Yorker? And more importantly: Will she run for Mayor next time around? DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 13/05/99 at 1:37 PM Erika Higgins wrote: >A Victory for all gardeners! Thank you divine Miss M!!! > >(from the New York Times - 5/13/99) >A day before the Giuliani administration was to auction off city-owned >lots that had been transformed into community gardens, the performer Bette >Midler had her private conservation organization agree to buy dozens of the >less desirable parcels, providing the final financing to preserve all 112 >gardens that were set for sale. > >The 11th-hour announcement ended a long-running dispute between city >officials who said the parcels were ripe for sale and residents who viewed >themselves as gardeners tending to verdant oases in neighborhoods of >concrete and steel. But the fate of more than 600 other lots that were not >part of the auction remains unclear. > >Nevertheless, the $1.2 million purchase of 51 lots by the New York >Restoration Project -- arranged by a singer and actress better known for >her engaging flamboyance than for her diplomatic skills -- provided a vital >piece in the city's negotiations with environmental groups. > >The offer cleared the way for another conservation group, the Trust for >Public Land, to buy the rest of the 112 parcels for $3 million, a figure >that included an additional $1 million from Ms. Midler's organization. That makes her contribution the major one, then. 2.2 million vs 2 from the Trust. >According to the deal, the two organizations are to work out plans to turn >over the properties to the community groups that tend to the gardens. If >the properties are ever used for anything other than gardens, ownership >will revert to the city, said Deputy Mayor Randy Levine, who helped in the >negotiations. What a no good bastard. If the lots were paid for, who the hell are they to stick their noses into it (the gardens are fine, but why lock into just the current view of collective future needs)? >------------------------------- >Erika Higgins >ehiggins@oxy.edu >323-259-1426 >Community Food Security Project >Occidental College Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 22:48:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07993 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA13641 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 21:43:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA13586 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 21:43:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Bagelhole1@aol.com Received: from Bagelhole1@aol.com (3960) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id iKQGa10991; Thu, 13 May 1999 21:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:10:27 EDT Subject: Community Food Security can be accomplished now To: ehiggins@oxy.edu, sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAA13601 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 782 Hi, I saw your post on the sanet list about Community Food Security. I too, am interested in cfs. along with making neighborhoods self-sustainable. To help make this happen, I have started a website developing a list of low-tech sustainable ideas, such that even technologically challenged people with little funds could implement these ideas and become self-sustainable to a large degree within 1-3 months. http://bagelhole.hypermart.net/ (only half finished, but somewhat functional). One of the side projects, is community food security, which could really be done in urban areas if groups, took up these ideas: 1. Low-cost greenhouses in urban areas (schools are a great possibility) utilizing the leading edge techniques to grow organics (aeroponics, no soil, vertical structures, nutrient fed looped tubing). 2. Edible front yards 3.Vertical gardening: Make a column out of chickenwire and tarpaper or cardboard about 3 1/2 feet high, 14 inches diameter. Hold a 4 inch diameter pipe in center and fill with sand and stones (for watering), fill the rest of the area with good soil, remove the pipe. Cut 3 inch slits around the outside thru the wire and paper in a spiral pattern. Insert seedlings in slits (40-60). Can be used on sidewalks, balconies, roofs. Sizes are arbitrary. 4 or 5 should feed a family plenty of vegetables, plant about 2 weeks apart to keep a steady harvest. 4.Local govts. should be asked to bring grains from the silos across America where they often rot every year and store them in accessible places for neighborhoods in your city. 5. Window sills for growing lettuce, herbs, sprouts, and wheat grass. What do you think? Tom O (bagelhole1) San Francisco Tax id 94-3111898 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 23:20:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08823 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 23:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA22997 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:45:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sparrow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (sparrow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA22992 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.254.213.42] (1Cust42.tnt29.dfw5.da.uu.net [208.254.213.42]) by sparrow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28087 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 19:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905140245.TAA28087@sparrow.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:40:24 -0500 Subject: Re: "Success" of modern agriculture From: "Lynn Byczynski" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 783 Hi All I have lately been in the habit of saying that almost any size acreage, using almost any kind of practices, could increase its production by doubling the number of engaged farmers. People seems to be the only resource growing on this planet, while everything else is rapidly being mined. Hopefully some of that can be recycled. But why is it that all the new technologies seem to require fewer actual eyes to the acre, but a lot more purchased inputs? My beef with Mr. Avery, and the "we've got to feed the world" crowd is that what they propose always decreases the number of livelihoods in actual farming. I would suggest that if they could come up with technologies that increased food production, and drew more and more of the billions of new people into good livelihoods doing it, there would be some common ground for discussion. However, I've only been hearing that "we've got to feed the world" recently since the argument that new technologies and marketing systems can no longer claim to be helping people stay on the farm. Aside from that, everyone seems to act like a livelihood actually producing food for people, in a way that pleases them, is somehow a dreary, non-satisfying way to spend a live. I submit that it could be the most productive way to spend your years on earth. Dan Nagengast Lawrence, KS ---------- > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 13 23:21:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08829 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 23:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA22868 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:44:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA22864 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:44:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-67ppp180.epix.net [199.224.67.180]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA16800; Thu, 13 May 1999 22:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373B8F3B.1E123B74@epix.net> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:49:31 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fjohnson@cillnet.com CC: sanet-mg Subject: Re: Cover Crop Incorporation References: <373A67D7.C955CAAC@cillnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 784 Floyd Johnson wrote: > I don't think any thing could compete in this cover. maybe if rolling > will kill it then we could Aer-Way it and No-till plant. not sure if the Aer-Way will kill the cover. Also it might tend to wrap. > But for the > microbes is the residue better on top or incorporated in top 6" or > deeper? earthworms prefer it on the surface. I think the rest of the microbes are just as happy to be left undisturbed if the soil is in a good aerated condition. > We are trying to build our soil organic matter to 5% or more. If your goal is to build OM you have 2 choices. Add huge amounts of compost or don't till the soil. On average you lose as much OM through CO2 loss as you turn in. > > The rolling stalk chopper requires rye to be at least 18" for it to > work most people say to kill it sooner. actually, the rolling stalk chopper works best when rye cover is 3 ft. If the rye is headed out, the chopper will nearly kill it. if it is not headed out, it will regrow. This year I'm adjusting my rolling strategy somewhat. right now my rye vetch is 4-5 ft high. rye will pollinate next week and I can see a few vetch flowers. I am rolling all my 50 acres of standing rye vetch now and will then re- roll it when I'm ready to plant for a couple of reasons. I don't like the cover to naturally go down during rain and wind storms because it lays down in a tangled mess usually. by rolling it early it is all laid down the direction of the planter which makes it allot easier to plant into. also, if it is getting dry, it stops the cover from taking out moisture. by leaving a period of time between rolls, I've observed a better kill then rolling it twice right away. And the rye gets extremely tough to plant into if you leave it grow till after it pollinates. > Will chopper work on red clover > and what would be the time frame? if you want a good kill, the clover needs to be in bloom > > Elane Ingam spoke about microbes an said the best thing we could do for > them is to keep living roots in soil all of the time. If we kill cover > early to keep it from getting to big ,but cant plant for a while, what > impact is this having on the microbes? I firmly believe this is true. my goal is to have a plant living in the soil at all times. I roll my covers only minutes b4 planting. (not that I can do this all the time, but it is best.) when the covers reach 4-5ft I then roll everything because of above stated reasons. Feel free to look at my website for more info on this system. http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ I also have a video that shows the stalk chooper in action. Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 00:39:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA10171 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 00:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA00109 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 13 May 1999 23:47:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA00004 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 23:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wclynx.com ([209.249.70.172]) by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with ESMTP id AAA192; Thu, 13 May 1999 20:46:59 -0700 Message-ID: <373B9BFE.6BC994BB@wclynx.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:43:59 -0700 From: Diane Cooner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas M. Hinds" CC: Erika Higgins , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, owner-comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, arcudi@compusverve.com, akorn@ibm.net, anand40@hotmail.com, curleya@serinocoyne.com, ASFisher@aol.com, gottlieb@oxy.edu, justfood@igc.apc.org, lteusink@yahoo.com, dmichon@juno.com, coaxil@aol.com, luchasan@aol.com, mofford@oxy.edu, mkielty@hotmail.com, mm@oxy.edu, hfrc3@earthlink.net, milstein@pipeline.com, lauratich@aol.com, mlewey2@aol.com, heyangy@aol.com, captaindog@prodigy.net, bnjgold@ix.netcom.com, abrown@oxy.edu, asmith@creative.net, mteusink@yahoo.com, daynak83@hotmail.com, abondoc@mindspring.com, shellworks@mindspring.com, ben@windowbox.com Subject: Re: gardens in NYC References: <3.0.5.32.19990513133755.00862630@pop.oxy.edu> <199905131850540180.018C84BF@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 785 That's the best news I've had all year. Giuliani should still be taken to task for even considering tearing the hearts out of these neighborhoods by clearing out their gardens. diane "Douglas M. Hinds" wrote: > Is Bette Midler a New Yorker? And more importantly: Will she run for Mayor > next time around? > > DH > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 13/05/99 at 1:37 PM Erika Higgins wrote: > > >A Victory for all gardeners! Thank you divine Miss M!!! > > > >(from the New York Times - 5/13/99) > >A day before the Giuliani administration was to auction off city-owned > >lots that had been transformed into community gardens, the performer Bette > >Midler had her private conservation organization agree to buy dozens of the > >less desirable parcels, providing the final financing to preserve all 112 > >gardens that were set for sale. > > > >The 11th-hour announcement ended a long-running dispute between city > >officials who said the parcels were ripe for sale and residents who viewed > >themselves as gardeners tending to verdant oases in neighborhoods of > >concrete and steel. But the fate of more than 600 other lots that were not > >part of the auction remains unclear. > > > >Nevertheless, the $1.2 million purchase of 51 lots by the New York > >Restoration Project -- arranged by a singer and actress better known for > >her engaging flamboyance than for her diplomatic skills -- provided a vital > >piece in the city's negotiations with environmental groups. > > > >The offer cleared the way for another conservation group, the Trust for > >Public Land, to buy the rest of the 112 parcels for $3 million, a figure > >that included an additional $1 million from Ms. Midler's organization. > > That makes her contribution the major one, then. 2.2 million vs 2 from the Trust. > > >According to the deal, the two organizations are to work out plans to turn > >over the properties to the community groups that tend to the gardens. If > >the properties are ever used for anything other than gardens, ownership > >will revert to the city, said Deputy Mayor Randy Levine, who helped in the > >negotiations. > > What a no good bastard. If the lots were paid for, who the hell are they to stick > their noses into it (the gardens are fine, but why lock into just the current view of > collective future needs)? > > >------------------------------- > >Erika Higgins > >ehiggins@oxy.edu > >323-259-1426 > >Community Food Security Project > >Occidental College > > Douglas M. Hinds > Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) > (Center for Community and Rural Development) > Petronilo Lopez No. 73 > Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO > e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 01:38:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA10637 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 01:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA10535 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 00:54:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA10476 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 00:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA10044 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 00:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 14 May 99 00:57:39 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 14 May 99 00:57:18 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:57:16 EST Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 786 Phil: I'd refer you to Stanhill's authoritative article comparing organic and conventional yields in 205 published comparisons, spanning more than 20 crop and several animal commodities. The ratio of organic:conventional yield averaged, if memory serves, 0.9 - e.g. organic was 90% of conventional. Something like one-third of the ratios were greater than 1, indicating higher organic yields than conventional yields, and I think most of these were in animal products as milk and eggs. In crops, the ratios were quite crop- specific, with some crops yielding very much lower under organic management and others approaching conventional yields. If you want the reference, get back to me. The point is not that organic yields less, but if it does, why? And could it yield as well or better - and most certainly more sustainably - if given a fighting chance. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 03:04:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA11232 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 03:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA23442 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 01:18:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA23405 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 01:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-5-48.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.48]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA31766; Fri, 14 May 1999 00:17:57 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01be9dc9$a8e7bf60$305f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Phil Gillman" , Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:21:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 787 This is what scares conventional agriculture. It is hard for anyone to argue that consumers will choose chemical free food over non-chemical free if or when the prices converge. I have found the latest group of posts on the sucess, or lack there-of, with modern day agriculture very interesting. I would have to add one point that is often not mentioned in regards to Dennis Avery's comments. His poorest assumption, in the opinion of this grassfarmer, is that we have to raise corn and then in turn feed it to animals when a more direct approach of harvesting sunlight by pasture and harvesting pasture with 4 legged creatures is a very ecological, economical, and socially acceptable practice. The only problem with this approach is it leaves very little room for the agribusiness industry that funds the think tank that Dennis Avery works for. I got into a lengthy "discussion" with hog producers about this very notion on the NPPC board. I also can't resist adding that the research does not document this clear cut economic efficiency gained by large farms. In fact, all the research I have seen points to a very distinct L-shaped cost curve at about full time farm levels. I would suggest they take a look at Mike Duffy's work at Iowa State. Big farms are good at producing volumes but I'm going to have to check my dictionary once again for the industries very loose use of the word efficiency. The story that there is fundamentally something wrong with agriculture is slow to take hold. Resistance to change is strong in the agriculture community. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range and chemical free hog farmer LaGrange IN PS Hogs are back up to about $40. I kept way too many gilts when prices were $8. (good decision actually) The little pigs following behind them are now worth about 10 times what their mother was worth only 5 months ago. I'm sure glad I read Allan Nation's editiorials in the Stockman Grass Farmer. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Gillman To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thursday, May 13, 1999 6:05 PM Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 >>that it is a darn good thing that >organic yields are generally lower than conventional. > >This has actually been proven in several long term studies to not be >true over the long run- It seems that due to the long term improvements >in the soil quality due to organic methods are the primary cause for >this- > >I have the links for the Nature article of the Rodale study should >anyone want it. > >Phil Gillman >pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org- > >PS in the long term, organic foods are often cheaper than non organic >when grown in diversified systems, - another note that premiums may not >last as volume grows > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 05:28:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA12119 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 05:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA11769 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 04:26:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA11580 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 04:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool551-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.41]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07028; Fri, 14 May 1999 01:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373A7C2C.D144C1F7@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:15:56 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beth von Gunten CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: GM coffee seen hard to swallow References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 788 That's all silly because there already is a coffee tree that has very little or no caffeine. I don't remember which--I do remember telling one of the ag bigwigs at UC Davis about it, years ago. ========================== by the way, Beth, I see you are not going to do that superduper paper any more, so what is it you are going to do? I always read every word of it, very well done. ======================= Beth von Gunten wrote: > Genetically modified coffee seen hard to swallow > > PHILADELPHIA, PA, May 2 (Reuters) - Researchers may eventually be able to > genetically modify coffee plants to resist insects or produce caffeine-free > coffee beans, but public resistance could delay such developments for at > least 10 years, a Monsanto Co (MTC - news) specialist said on Sunday. > > James Zarndt, a commercial team leader within Monsanto's specialty crops > group, said the company was concerned about the public's understanding of > what genetic modification of plants really means. He said until people > were ``comfortable'' with the idea, Monsanto would move moderately slowly > into the area. > > He told Reuters it was not feasible to suppose there could be any approvals > for genetically modified coffee until at least the end of the next decade > because of current public uncertainty and the perception of the industry. > > ``Processors and growers are telling us what their challenges are. Whether > it is in the area of producing naturally decaffeinated coffee or > insect-control issues, the scientists need to identify the genes that are > responsible for controlling those issues within the plant,'' Zarndt said. > > He said the process to remove caffeine from coffee hurt flavor and taste, > so researchers would aim to produce trees which had been genetically > modified to develop ``naturally'' decaffeinated beans. > > ``They (scientists) believe the proper genes have been identified in > certain laboratories around the world but it has not been proven yet in the > field or in the factory,'' Zarndt added. > > While there had been very little research into genetically modified coffee > yet, he said Monsanto was researching possible opportunities. According to > Zarndt, Monsanto has not conducted any coffee-related consumer research but > he believed U.S. coffee drinkers have shown less concern over accepting > plant modifications than Europeans. > > He cited many obstacles facing coffee growers, particularly pressures from > disease and insect control. > > ``At the present time they are using pretty significant chemical solutions > such as fungicides and insecticides but one has to wonder if those are > sustainable practices. There are potential solutions in the area of insect > control in particular that biotechnology may be able to provide,'' Zarndt > said. > > Speaking on the sidelines of a four-day Specialty Coffee Association of > America (SCAA) annual meeting and exhibition, Zarndt said Monsanto was > currently looking at the opportunities which existed for coffee > biotechnology but had not yet engaged in any genetic modification trials. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 10:04:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15292 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:04:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA08426 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:24:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08374 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29111 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EAK5TM4R; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:23:44 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 05:07:32 -0700 Subject: Corn pollen (GM) contamination Message-ID: <19990514.061111.3486.0.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4-5,17,25-27 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 789 Beth von Gunten wrote: ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04659 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:15:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04604 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:15:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (328) by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7MCKa05093 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:14:32 EDT Subject: UK Report Disfavorable to GMO To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 790 May 13, 1999 LONDON, Reuters [WS] via NewsEdge Corporation : The British government scrambled on Wednesday to deal with a leaked report which said commercial growing of genetically modified crops would contaminate other foodstuffs over large distances. A Ministry of Agriculture official said the report had not yet gone to ministers while the John Innes research centre, whose experts compiled the study, said it had been leaked. Neither would comment on it before publication, due late this month or early in June after the government has digested its contents. But organic farmers were outraged. Environment Minister Michael Meacher tried to quell the latest fears about GM foods which have become a headache for the government. Public opinion is largely against them but Prime Minister Tony Blair determined that Britain should remain at the forefront of the technology. ``The government is very concerned to preserve the integrity of organic farming,'' Meacher told BBC radio. ``We want to see an increase in organic farming. We want to see proper separation distances. Exactly what they should be is a matter that we are now looking at extremely closely.'' The Daily Mail said the John Innes Centre will tell the government that pollen from GM crops can be spread across wide distances by winds and insects. The paper said the report -- ``Organic Farming and Gene Transfer from Genetically Modified Crops'' -- concluded that contamination could not be entirely stopped so acceptable levels would have to be decided upon. Official GM crop trials operate with only a 200-yard buffer zone. The Soil Association, which regulates organic farming, says a six-mile barrier is the minimum needed to guarantee organic crops are not contaminated. ``We are determined to maintain the purity of organic crops in the UK and this is why we have set ourselves against GM,'' said the association's Richard Young. ``The boundaries between GM crops are totally inadequate to protect organic farmers.'' Meacher said the question of whether consumers wanted foods labelled as GM-free to be just that, or whether they may accept a residual amount of modified ingredients amounting to one or two percent, was key. ``If the answer is that people expect it to be virtually nil, that does require considerably greater separation distances,'' he said. ``It is perfectly true that...there are no 'no-fly' zones for bees and they can travel long distances.'' English Nature, a government advisory body, has called for a five-year ban on the commercial release of GM crops to allow more research on their environmental impact. But Cabinet Office minister Jack Cunningham has said if all regulatory hurdles were cleared, commercial planting of GM crops could begin next year. Mad cow disease, the human equivalent of which has claimed about 30 British lives, has made people deeply conscious of food safety and sensitive to stories about ``Frankenstein foods.'' Most supermarkets have already banned GM foods from their stores or, at the very least, clearly labelled them. [Copyright 1999, Reuters] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 10:12:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15424 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04725 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:15:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04693 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:15:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28931 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (328) by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id vXOKa04196 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:14:41 EDT Subject: Owned by taller cities To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA04703 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 791 Owned by taller cities I glide the blacktop silently through rolling land before the glyphos rains on Mellencamps plowed gimme-cap nation with blood on their iron yet again. A 24-row cultivator parked on an empty concrete slab lifts up the clouds where there used to be a home. . The benign corn tickled by the wind runs on in nearly endless rows to a far forest where a flash of yellow paint is pushing trees over. In the town where fading plywood was too precisely hammered over the church doors and windows the Lutherans leaned on God a long time ago and didnt know what to ask for. I hallucinate shining milk cans in front of yards full of flowers and cattle being led by children and their eager dogs down a dirt road. Suddenly I reach the Interstate and my way east toward the Mississippis grain barges, locks and fog. The long cemetery row of brown towns still try all the way to the Gulf to be the pasts future impression of things that only once were proud and are only owned by taller cities elsewhere. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 10:58:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16339 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA27597 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:56:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27449 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JB6FH0F6HS0007PF@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:46:35 PDT Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 14 May 1999 06:52:23 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 14 May 1999 06:52:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 06:49:14 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: GM coffee seen hard to swallow To: "'Bargyla Rateaver'" , Beth von Gunten Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D8038@10.248.cabi.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 792 A quick search of the CAB ABSTRACTS database found the following coffee species to be caffeine-free: Coffea pseudozanguebariae Coffea bengalensis "almost all Malagasy coffee species" References: Barre, P. et al. (1997) Introgression of quality traits from C.pseudozanguebariae to C. liberica var.dewevrei. In: Dix-septieme Colloque Scientifique International sur le Cafe, Nairobi, Kenya, 20-25 juillet 1997. Paris, France; Association Scientifique Internationale du Cafe (ASIC) pp. 520-526 Sreenath, H. L. (1997) Development of caffeine free coffee varieties. Indian Coffee vol. 61 No. 10 pp. 13-14 Barre, P. et al. (1998) Inheritance of caffeine and heteroside contents in an interspecific cross between a cultivated coffee species Coffea liberica var. dewevrei and a wild species caffeine-free C. pseudozanguebariae. Theoretical and Applied Genetics vol 96 no. 2 pp. 306-311 Anton Doroszenko CAB International http://www.cabi.org/ http://www.cabweb.org/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Bargyla Rateaver [SMTP:brateaver@earthlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 8:16 AM > To: Beth von Gunten > Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: GM coffee seen hard to swallow > > That's all silly because there already is a coffee tree that has very > little or > no caffeine. I don't remember which--I do remember telling one of the ag > bigwigs at UC Davis about it, years ago. > ========================== > by the way, Beth, I see you are not going to do that superduper paper any > more, > so what is it you are going to do? I always read every word of it, very > well > done. > ======================= > > Beth von Gunten wrote: > > > Genetically modified coffee seen hard to swallow > > > > PHILADELPHIA, PA, May 2 (Reuters) - Researchers may eventually be able > to > > genetically modify coffee plants to resist insects or produce > caffeine-free > > coffee beans, but public resistance could delay such developments for at > > least 10 years, a Monsanto Co (MTC - news) specialist said on Sunday. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 11:57:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18046 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00572 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:56:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00527 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:00:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: Cover Crop Incorporation Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:00:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 793 Sanet: I didn't want to overload you with information, but as the discussion continues on cover crop management and incorporation, I am compelled to refer you to another SAN publication: Steel in the Field: A Farmer's Guide to Weed Management Tools. 1997. From the index, (http://www.sare.org/san/steel/item7.htm) cover crops are mentioned on at least 35 of the 128 pages in the book. Steel in the Field addresses 37 tillage tools in enough detail that you will know when and how to use each one to manage weeds AND to manage cover crops in many cases! The book includes case studies of 22 U.S. farmers, most of whom use various combinations of tillage, cover crops, and agri-chemicals to manage weeds while improving their soil. I excerpt from one farmer case study below. Other excerpts from the book are available on the web at http://www.sare.org/san/steel/ To order the $18 book--and what a deal for 128 pages of in-the-field, down-to-earth information--see http://www.sare.org/san/steel/item8.htm CREDIT CARD ORDERS NOW ACCEPTED--despite what some of our literature still says. Call 802-656-0494 to order by credit card. Really, I'm not a salesperson, but an agronomist and technical information specialist for sustainable agriculture, coordinating the Sustainable Agriculture Network, the outreach arm of the USDA SARE program and the sponsor of sanet-mg. My role and objective is to produce and disseminate practical information about sustainable agriculture to farmers and agricultural educators. Excerpt from Steel in the Field: A Farmer's Guide to Weed Management Tools Copyright 1997 by the Sustainable Agriculture Network ________________________________________________________ A sustainable transition takes the right metal Jack Erisman Pana, Illinois * 1,800 acres (all certified organic) * 80-cow, cow/calf beef herd * legumes: sweet clover, red clover, alfalfa * row crops: corn, edible soybeans * orchardgrass/clover/alfalfa pasture mix * mulch tillage with disking * cover crops: rye, buckwheat, hairy vetch * small grains: oats, wheat, canola, rye, triticale Weed management highlights Strategies: Minimum tillage... cover crops... seven-year, flexible crop rotation... mechanical cultivation Tools: Flexible-chain harrow... high-residue rotary hoe... three cultivators (low-residue, high-residue, maximum residue)... heavy and light tandem disks Jack Erisman uses both conventional and unconventional practices to protect his soil resources and production potential. Terraces he built long ago now seem less important to him than thick-rooted cover crops for erosion control. He has a wide inventory of tillage and cultivation tools not because he likes to use them, but so he can use each one as little as possible to its best advantage. Building his soil's biological quality and its loose, crumbly structure are his primary goals and serve as the foundation for successful integrated systems of non-chemical weed control and crop production. His on-farm research is geared to finding the tillage-cutting building blocks of organic, no-till systems for soybeans and other cash crops. Erisman has been practicing conservation tillage for more than 25 years, having used a modified ridge-till system in the late '60s and early '70s. He began testing organic management methods in '88 and quit using synthetic fertilizers and herbicides in '90. He's kept his farming herbicide-free since then and completely organic since '93. He credits a flexible rotation for part of his success. For a typical seven-year rotation he plants an overwintering rye cover crop followed by soybeans; a fall-planted small grain; a legume/grass mix "frost-seeded" into the grain in late winter; several years of hay or pasture; corn; another rye cover-soybeans sequence; cereal grain frost-seeded with a legume/grass mix; finishing with a fallow year when the forage mix growth is clipped but left to replenish soil organic matter. The seventh year's "crop" is enrichment and regeneration of soil biological life. Erisman calculates that the soil benefits which improve and protect succeeding crops easily offset his opportunity cost plus clipping and $20 per acre in taxes. A late seeding of buckwheat for grain in the seventh summer and then a fall seeding of rye to restart the rotation combine to provide a needed break in the legume cycle that prevents a buildup of soil disease organisms. To fit fields and control weeds for his broad crop mix, Erisman has an array of cultivation equipment. STUFF DELETED Wants Fewer Passes Erisman's shift to organic crop production systems increases overall tillage due to crop rotation and mechanical cultivation. Rather than an adverse impact on the soil, he's seen changes for the better. "Green manure crops cushion the tillage impact," he says. "Our soil structure has improved-it's more granular and friable than it was." Hand digging and visual observations by researchers from the USDA National Soil Tilth Lab showed significant differences in soil tilth structure on his farm compared with neighboring farms. Erisman credits the distinction partly to his use of deep-penetrating legumes, such as alfalfa and sweetclovers, and minimal use of deep tillage. Erisman has fields in different stages of organic transition and many crop sequences to juggle. Critical management situations include Rye to soybeans. His main rye-killing tool is a John Deere 32-foot offset disk. In wet years, he starts with a flail mower to stop growth and buy time until field conditions permit disking. Final preplant weed control and soil conditioning comes from his 36-foot field cultivator. Rye requires careful management to coax out all its benefits. "Rye residue can keep ground cold, and its allelopathic (weed suppressing) effects are gone after about three weeks," says Erisman. Rye needs to be killed before it puts on explosive growth just before it heads out. Rampant growth can dry out the soil in moisture-deficient years, or present too much biomass to easily incorporate or plant through, depending on a farm's equipment. Mowing after flowering stage is a no-herbicide, no-till control option. End excerpt from Steel in the Field: A Farmer's Guide to Weed Management Tools Copyright 1997 by the Sustainable Agriculture Network ________________________________________________________ Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 12:04:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18482 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA07898 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:16:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (stat49.webserf.net [204.77.122.49] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA07793 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905141516.LAA07793@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.129] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE1C5240368; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:15:40 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:15:03 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Low-caffeine coffees Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 794 On Fri, 14 May 1999 06:49:14 -0700, Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: >Barre, P. et al. (1998) Inheritance of caffeine and heteroside contents in >an interspecific cross between a cultivated coffee species Coffea liberica ^^^^^^^^^^^ >var. dewevrei and a wild species caffeine-free C. pseudozanguebariae. >Theoretical and Applied Genetics vol 96 no. 2 pp. 306-311 Did they state why they crossed it with *liberica*? That species is generally known for its extremely high caffeine content (in some cases exceeding 8% !!). Typically arabica X3 = robusta X3 = liberica for caffeine content. A lot of the Andean arabicas are well below 1% caffeine, depending on the strain grown. There may be arabica strains out there that are virtually caffeine free already but no one has prospected them. They probably get mixed in with higher caffeine stuff and disappear into commerce unnoticed. Most of the organic coffees out of the Andes are low-caffeine arabicas and quite a good brew if roasted right. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 12:11:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18648 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:11:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA04899 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:10:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04855 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0016-max2.ds26-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.97.66]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21699 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 08:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373C3CC1.6EE14A5E@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 08:09:54 -0700 From: Sharon Reply-To: isteven@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: send-SANET Subject: Re: Extension for Peruvian farmers... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 795 Thanks for the idea. Did a quick check and unfortunately Peru is not included on the Peace Corp list. But it occurred to me that SANET is a perfect place to throw out another idea that I have long nourished for this project. (By the way, I should say that I'm working with the ngo PACT to roust up funding for this project. If anyone has any good ideas on where to get support, we'd certainly appreciate it.) Might I get some reaction to the possibility of using graduate students in tropical agriculture to participate in the project. Ideally bi-lingual students would be easiest to work with. I was was thinking in terms of a Univ. giving credit for participation of grad students in two aspects of Connections (that's the name of the electronic extension system we're formulating) as we visualize it now: one is marketing, i.e. seeking out markets for campesino associations and helping them with the marketing process. The second would entail getting information to the campesinos about their expressed agricultural concerns. This second would be via a "list" in which would be "charged" i.e. with people committed to the list for at least it's first year to make sure that questions get responses. Peruvian agronomists have already expressed their own interest in such a list and I was wondering if it would be possible to get graduate students specializing in one area or another to bring their accumulated "outsiders'" sources of information/new research to the list and in turn would get a concrete view of the 'real world' out in the tropical jungle. Alternatively, I was thinking also of the possibility of setting up "bi-lateral" relationships, i.e. a graduate student acting as a junior "mentor" for just one campesino group on a more personal basis, but with the information exchanged put on a public website and/or list so that the value of the exchange is not lost. For students who are not bi-lingual, we are toying with the idea of convincing bi-lingual Peruvians (there's a mass of them located in New Jersey) who are interested in helping rural folks, to volunteer to act as translators who could then work with the graduate student and the campesino group. Some sort of screenging process for the translators would have to be set up. Thoughts from some of you experienced university types or how beneficial this would be to grad students and whether it would be feasible for them to get course credit or independent study credit for a project like this and if anyone has heard of it being done before? "Anita Graf (Staff)" wrote: > Hi Sharon, > I just read your post on Sanet. I just wanted to suggest that you > look into the possiblity of getting the help of Peace Corps > volunteers. I'm not sure if PC serves in Peru, ...Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 12:27:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18963 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16666 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:33:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16641 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:37:01 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Forwarded RE: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:37:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 796 Forwarded: Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:57:14 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com Harold What you say comes straight from the book . How ever I farmed straight from the book almost 20 years now , it's gotten me just about nothing . In the last several years I have attended several different field days that have changed the way I look at things. These farmers don't pay any attention to the book and accomplish things I never dreamed of accomplishing. They don't use herbicides, can't afford the yield drag. They aren't shooting for 200 bu. corn, more like 300 bu. They don't use insecticides, read nerve gas, when maybe a little sugar will do the job, etc. etc. etc. I am all for progress but this time it's going to be My progress. Not a World War Industry's . To clarify what I mean read on. What did the fertilizer companies make before fertilizer (gunpowder). What did the chemical companies make before herbicides & insecticides (nerve gas). Now today we have GPS, the military is done with it so lets pass it on to the farmers , hate to lay off any workers they might have to grow their own food or something awful like that. Of course why should they when farmers are willing to support them and provide them food and fiber cheaper & cheaper every day as they cut themselves out of the picture. I need to stop before I get carried away it just makes me very mad when people say we need all of this stuff to feed the world when I know people who are doing a wonderful job without it . There are even some figures that say on account of pollution we might not have a world to feed. Please look at all of the information from all of the sources before you decide which side you pick. I know where I am at and I believe most non biased intelligent people will make the same decision if they truly dig in to all of the information. Sincerely Floyd Johnson IN REPLY TO: (206.185.4.173::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 13 May 1999 00:44:33 -0400 From: "Harold Reetz" To: Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:43:45 -0500 After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I find it difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" that are included in this "list" without responding. It appears that this is really a forum for the anti-science, anti-industry people to post their ideas and their attacks on science and industry. Comments such as the importance of "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have made in agriculture has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be a general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about GMOs and other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. STUFF DELETED To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 12:27:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18975 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA24858 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:46:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24766 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02195 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:45:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA29009 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 14 May 99 11:49:38 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 14 May 99 11:49:25 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:49:24 EST Subject: Re: Corn pollen (GM) contamination In-reply-to: <19990514.061111.3486.0.eweigel@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 797 Edna: thanks for sharing your experience with us. Helps to put it into perspective. One question - what is it that makes us think GMO food is going to be cheaper? Yields are actually lower - not higher - at least in soybean, corn, and canola (don't know about the rest). This is what is called a yield drag, apparently attributable to the metabolic cost of performing the task (e.g. herbicide or pest resistance) that would otherwise have come from a sprayer. Furthermore, only certain genetic backgrounds (within a given crop) will "receive" or tolerate transgene insertion. Others either reject the gene entirely or allow it but then silence it so it doesn't express itself. The more tolerant genetic backgrounds are not always the higher yielding ones (often not), which also depresses yield. So, if yield is not higher, and net profit to producers is generally unchanged (I've heard it argued both ways, but most compelling evidence is no net gain), why would the food be cheaper? Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 12:30:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19025 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA14228 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:26:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14188 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:26:39 -0400 (EDT) From: GPaule@aol.com Received: from GPaule@aol.com (3962) by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7CTJa02835 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:25:58 EDT Subject: re:gardens in NYC To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 798 this is my first time jumping in to the conversation so i hope my techno-technique is OK... anyway, just want us all to keep in mind the disturbing precedent now set by private money stepping in to buy public space that we already "owned" as citizens of the city. and note, no mention of the remaining 400+ "endangered" gardens still sitting ducks on "auctionable" city property. we have staved off the crisis, but by no means created a sane, lasting policy about community-managed open space in this town. i do adore bette midler on her white horse -- but the real heroes are the gardeners who created something so powerful that this movement has coalesced around them. thanks, gaby immerman greenthumb -nyc To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 12:32:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19067 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15592 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:30:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15545 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:34:10 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: REPLYING to sanet-mg-digest messages Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:34:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 799 SANet subscribers (particularly digest subscribers): I will shortly forward a couple of messages that did not go through to the full list due to the way in which the senders replied to the digest format of sanet-mg. PLEASE take care when replying to sanet messages that you receive in the digest format. For anyone not subscribed to the digest format, see below for more information. Several things to watch for in your replies to the digest--consider it payment for the luxury of receiving the digest format: 1) Be sure to copy and paste the Subject line back into your reply. Otherwise, the subject line on your reply will read something like RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 This tells the reader NOTHING about the message you are sending, and it really fools the computer, which is madly trying to archive and categorize sanet messages so that web users can read all the messages in one thread. The search engine doesn't really like these subject lines, either. See http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/ gardens in NYC Re: gardens in NYC Re: gardens in NYC The latest critique of SANET Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 Brucellosis and bison/URLs Community Food Security can be accomplished now Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 2) DO NOT include the whole sanet-mg-digest in your reply to the list. There is a limit on the size of messages sent to sanet, and some of the problems with messages going through have been because, with the whole digest included in replies, the message is too large and gets bounced. This means that you should copy and paste into a new message SOME or ALL of the text from the one message you are replying to--but NOT all of the text from the digest, or your message will bounce and I'll have to contact you and tell you so. For those interested in the digest format of sanet, here's the scoop: The digest compiles sanet-mg messages into one message, so you receive a large message with 5-15 individual messages all included along with a Table of Contents for that digest. So on a normal day, you receive about two sanet-mg-digest messages, with a minimum of one per day. The pros and cons of the digest format include: CONS: the way you need to reply (see above), the one very large message that makes it difficult to just print out or forward or save a single message (I usually go the the web to print or forward a single message from the archives http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/ ), and you cannot read the subject line from your inbox and decide to read or delete individual messages, since the subject line of each digest reads: sanet-mg-digest V1 #XXXX. PROS: you only receive a couple of sanet messages per day, relieving your mailbox overload, you can rapidly read through the days' messages in one message, and if you're really behind on reading sanet, you can delete days' and weeks' worth of messages with a few key strokes :^) If you are currently subscribed to sanet-mg and want to subscribe to the digest, you will have to unsubscribe from sanet-mg and resubscribe to sanet-mg-digest. To do so, see form letter below: Enclosed are instructions for subscribing and unsubscribing from sanet-mg. NOTE that you must specify the digest format if you want to subscribe to it, or if you are already subscribed and want to unsubscribe. The digest compiles a day's messages and sends them all in one message. SUBSCRIBING To subscribe, send a message to: majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu In the BODY of the message type ONLY: subscribe sanet-mg To subscribe to the digest format, use the following INSTEAD of the above: subscribe sanet-mg-digest Be sure to save the instructions that are sent to you. You'll need them. UNSUBSCRIBING: To unsubscribe, send a message to: majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu In the BODY of the message type ONLY: unsubscribe sanet-mg To unsubscribe from the digest format, use the following INSTEAD of the above: unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest Please contact me directly if you have any further questions. Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 USDA/ARS/National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 san@nal.usda.gov PH : (301) 504-6425 FAX: (301) 504-6409 http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 12:33:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19077 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16502 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:32:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16441 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Forward RE: information, extension, biotech, philosophy Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:36:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 800 Forwarded: From: Gord Hawkes To: "'Harold Reetz'" , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:03:43 -0400 Harold. First I commend you on exercising your right to express your opinion. I appreciate your candid views but we are of different ilks - that which suits my perception is appropriate for me that which suits yours is appropriate for you. GMOs are in my rather uninformed opinion - I have no science background - unnatural as are the use of pesticides. You make claims that we cannot sustain the human population using traditional farming methods. Many civilizations before us although not sustaining urban centres as large as our contemporary cities were able to feed their masses using ingenious and natural farming methods. The Incas and Aztecs were remarkably adept at producing food in ways that provided for their populations. The Chinese were equally adept at doing the same. We have become less ingenious in developing conventional agricultural practices and focus on ways to outsmart or outwit mother nature. Why is it that we feel that bugs and other natural problems are in fact problems? Why is that we attempt to grow corn where we should grow potatoes? Why is that we graze cattle where virgin rainforest once stood? Why is that we grow a considerable amount of food for domestic livestock possibly even more than we grow for our own populace? If we continue to believe that we can dominate nature through meddling with her superiority we are, in my humble opinion, fools. Why is that we cannot focus more on the ways of nature and less on the dominance of nature? I don't consider myself anti anything and I believe progress is good if it balanced and fits the natural order. However, I am also a hypocrite as I drive a car and take advantage of many of the conveniences developed in the latter part of this century - many of which have been developed at the expense of nature. But I am hopeful that we can bridge the gap and work towards sustainability and working with nature in solving our problems. This is my $0.02 worth. Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, On Canada, eh On Thursday, May 13, 1999 12:44 AM, Harold Reetz [SMTP:hreetz@ppi-far.org] wrote: > After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I find it > difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" that are included > in this "list" without responding. It appears that this is really a forum > for the anti-science, anti-industry people to post their ideas and their > attacks on science and industry. Comments such as the importance of > "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have made > in agriculture has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be a > general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about GMOs and > other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. > > I had hoped this was a forum for a more balanced discussion and assessment > of facts. I guess that is asking too much. But I am concerned about the > comments that the new technologies in agriculture are creating hazards and > quality problems when there is no evidence to support such claims. > Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember in the > "good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not nearly so much a > result of technology as it is our nations desire to have cheap, abundant and > healthy food. We use technology to accomplish that better than any other > nation in the world. Our success makes it possible for 98% of our > population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for > the science and technology and the large-scale intensive production systems > we have implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced > into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who do grow > it. > > I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and disease > problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. Doing it with GMOs, with > cultural practices, and overall systems management, we have a great story to > tell. There is apparently a certain population who feel obliged to attack > progress. They fought pesticides and when we replaced pesticide use with > GMOs, many of the same people jumped from the anti-pesticide bandwagon to > the anti-GMO bandwagon. > > Another comment in this thread points out that many of the world's food > problems are political, rather than production problems. That is true. And > the kind of discussions this thread is fostering help to support those > political problems. > > There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. Dennis > has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of technology, much > more of the world's natural forest ecosystems would be turned into food > production. Our high yield management systems in the US can do much more to > help save the rain forests and deserts and to protect fragile ecosystems > than any other option we have before us. Most of our food crops could not > survive in nature. Most of our agriculture could not survive without > continuous infusion of technology. It is our success with technology that > gives us the abundance and efficiency that allows more people to NOT be > involved in food production. I doubt that you will find a large percentage > of the 98% non-producers who would trade their life styles with going back > to producing their own food. > > Maybe instead of complaining about the direction of this list, I should just > remove my name from it. For now, thanks for letting me vent my concerns. > > Harold Reetz > > Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. > Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute > Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research > 111 East Washington Street > Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 > > Phone: 217-762-2074 > FAX: 217-762-8655 > e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org > PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org > InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 > Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 12:37:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19191 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA24517 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:45:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24505 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA02132 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA13304; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:45:05 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma012755; Fri, 14 May 99 10:44:46 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:44:46 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD2A@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison'" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: The latest critique of SANET Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:44:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA24508 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 801 Misha, > I would like to know who here is anti-science. "Science" comes > from the Latin /scire/, which means "to know."....It is a complex > human enterprise, whose methods change over time, whose > epistemologies are open to reinterpretation, and whose established > findings are open to retesting and falsification. > (In the Popperian sense.) Oh, I think the science wars are indeed waged on this list, at least tangentially. I think there is a strongly constructivist element that clashes with the more traditional scientists. But, my purpose isn't to fight the science war right now. I happened on a book review by David Hull in the current issue of Science. The book is "Mystery of Mysteries, by Michael Ruse. It sounds very relevant to this proto-thread. I think I'll get the book. Here is an excerpt of the review: "On the contemporary scene, Ruse sets out the disputes between two pairs of adversaries, Richard Dawkins and Stephen Jay Gould and Richard Lewontin and E. O. Wilson. These paired evolutionary biologists disagree with each other about a lot of things: the data, the implications of data, the nature of science, and the social responsibilities of scientists. Gould and Lewontin are allies, both scientifically and politically. Both opt for a hierarchical view of evolution and profess allegiance to some sort of Marxism. In doing so, they acknowledge (as Marxists should) that their scientific and political beliefs "interpenetrate" each other, to use an embarrassingly androsexist term. One major objection they raise is that other scientists are navely unaware of this interpenetration. In saying so explicitly, they have transgressed one of the most fundamental and widespread metalevel beliefs about science--that it is value free." Dale > > The implication that science is not open to critique, rethinking, or > challenge smacks of an historically earlier attitude about another > institution, called religion. And the implication that anything that > questions science cannot be rational makes rationality the sole > provenance of science--a common enough assumption in this age, but > quite flawed. > > Harold, SANET is an Internet list server, where diverse people share > their thoughts. Those thoughts are not, contrary to your assertions, > a unified perspective. You may see a unity in that you disagree with > many perspectives here--but all that implies is a unity in *your* > perspective. I.e., that you think a certain way and few subscribers > here may agree with that. But the thousand or more people on this > list are very diverse, and some portion of them changes regularly, as > people subscribe and unsubscribe. > > If you want a unified perspective that agrees with your own, I'm sure > there are plenty of media--including industry trade > publications--that would qualify. I understand that it can be > frustrating and daunting to learn about communities of people where > ideas are expressed that do not agree with one's own. But that seems > to be more a limitation of one's own tolerance than of others' > expression. > > > > Comments such as the importance of "values" in addition to > > science....implying that the progress we have made in agriculture > > has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be a > > general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about > > GMOs and other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. > > There are those in the SANET circle who believe GMO is a bad thing. > There are those here who haven't yet formed an opinion. There are > those here who believe it could have benefits. I can't believe that > you're suggesting that this list should have as its purpose the > quashing any thinking or expression that doesn't agree with your > own. Nor the artificial creation of a unified perspective, when this > medium is clearly not for that. This is a discussion area. And one of > the few ones that encourages wide-ranging expression. > > > > I had hoped this was a forum for a more balanced discussion and > > assessment of facts. I guess that is asking too much. > > You are a new subscriber. Stick around a few years, and you'll see > that this also happens. Perhaps not to your 100% satisfaction, but > do remember that your needs and wants are not the only thing at > issue in this circle. > > There've been times, over the years, folks have criticized this list > because it hasn't provided them with the thing they thought it > should. Yet, instead of sticking around and taking responsibility for > facilitating that thread of discussion or assessment, it tends to > happen that people holler, loudly, about what's NOT happening. And > then either fall silent, or go off and start their own discussion > groups, or whatever. One is left with the impression that they came > here to be agreed with, rather than to engage in dialogue. I suppose > approval is a good thing...but it, like reactionary disagreement, > rarely fosters creative growth. > > > > But I am concerned about the comments that the new technologies in > > agriculture are creating hazards and quality problems when there > > is no evidence to support such claims. > > Again, stick around awhile, and be open to receiving and considering > such evidence when it's presented. If you have it in your head that > you are right, a priori, and that certain others are wrong, this > will not prove to be a comfortable discursive community for you. > > Of course, there are those on this list who take that position > as the Resident Contrarians, but I digress. :^) > > Challenging ideas is part of what happens here. If you a priori > believe that evidence offered from perspectives you don't share > therefore doesn't exist...well, there's not much anyone can do about > that. You are entitled to your perspectives. You are entitled to > deny the existence of those that you disagree with. Like any > communications technology, he Internet can be used as a powerful > buttress for solipsism, as well as for challenging, shaping, and > re-forming one's thoughts. > > > > Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember > > in the "good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not > > nearly so much a result of technology as it is our nations desire > > to have cheap, abundant and healthy food. We use technology to > > accomplish that better than any other nation in the world. Our > > success makes it possible for 98% of our population to NOT live on > > the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for the science and > > technology and the large-scale intensive production systems we have > > implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced > > into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who > > do grow it. > > Your use of "we" here disturbs me. You are speaking, apparently, for > a collectivity whose membership is not clear. I know you're not > speaking for me. Nor for many of the farmers I have worked with for > the past ten years in the Upper Midwest. > > Many of those farmers and aspirants to that profession, would not > consider growing food to be something they were "forced" to do. They > consider it dignified, meaningful, soul-nourishing, > community-building work. Not something to be escaped. And one of > their premier critiques of industrial farming is that it did in fact > alienate many people from agrarian lifestyles and communities that > sustained them. > > And this supplanting happened in the name of profit, progress, and > efficiency. > > Whose values are those? > > > > I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and > > disease problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. Doing it > > with GMOs, with cultural practices, and overall systems management, > > we have a great story to tell. There is apparently a certain > > population who feel obliged to attack progress. They fought > > pesticides and when we replaced pesticide use with GMOs, many of > > the same people jumped from the anti-pesticide bandwagon to the > > anti-GMO bandwagon. > > I can empathize with your frustration if you feel that you are an > agent of technological progress for which you deserve reward and > thanks. I recall how frustrating it was for Green Revolution > scientists to have their thinking challenged around things like the > introduction of pesticides and high-tech, high-capital farming into > nations that could not sustain that. I am hearing some > similar-appearing frustrations coming from the proponents of > industrial GMO technology. I.e., "we" are trying to solve the > world's problems--why are you criticizing us? > > Harold, I don't know what to say about that other than remind you we > live in a free and open democratic society, where the questioning of > *any* set of ideas or values or actions is not only allowed, but part > of the fabric of this democracy. It is the creative tension of > rethinking and questioning that forms the most basic value of all: > free thinking. No one group of people holds a monopoly on the > truth--though you can bet there are intellectual property lawyers out > there who will try to run fence around even that one, eventually. > Truth is a collective enterprise, and it involves all kinds of > discourse. > > I doubt that those who founded this nation were foreseeing the day > when corporations would foist proprietary techniques on the > citizenry, claiming it was for some greater good, without actually > checking that perception with those these techniques would affect. > Nor checking whether they, the citizenry, agree it is indeed for > their greater good. Never mind wilfully ignoring citizens' > perceptions that they simply do not agree with the technocracy. > > However, I'm sure that all of them--from John Langdon thru Abraham > Baldwin--would take exception to the common assumption today: that if > a representative of a corporation, institution, or other powerful > organization SAYS a technology is good for everyone, then folks are > supposed to shut up and do as they're told. And I'd bet that they'd > take huge umbrage at the idea that common people, with common sense, > cannot think scientifically, nor provide meaningful critique of the > science of the experts. > > > > Another comment in this thread points out that many of the world's > > food problems are political, rather than production problems. That > > is true. And the kind of discussions this thread is fostering help > > to support those political problems. > > You seem to assume that "production problems" are apolitical. > "Politics" derives from a Greek word meaning "citizen," later > generalized to the Latin word for government. In a democratic > society, the relationships and agreements between people--how they > agree to negotiate, share, and disburse power--is the fundamental > aspect of politics. Human relationships will govern how "production" > is conceived, designed, and executed. > > My concern--which I've voiced many times in this circle--is that > this aspect of the big picture is being forgotten: we live in a > democratic, diverse society. Having more money or more power or more > degrees or more branch offices or more PR staff or whatever doesn't > mean doodly squish when you live in a society where citizens are > allowed to say what they think. > > Including that they don't want any parts of GMOs. Including their > perception that certain agricultural interests are in the game for > money, power, prestige, and influence. Including their unwillingness > to have powerful people speak for their interests. > > I've been thinking about this one a lot. Harold, a lot of the farmers > I work with earn less than $28,000 a year, are listened to by no one > but their neighbors, have no agenda of changing the world, and are > constantly ridiculed and ignored, either for the content of their > thinking or the way they express it. > > I ask you: would you do, and keep doing, your current job if you were > making $28,000 a year or less? > > Would you do it if no one listened to you, or didn't feel your > degrees or position meant anything? > > Would you do your current job if you knew that you weren't changing > the World, but rather some small quarter-section of it? And then you > weren't so sure about that? > > Would you do your current job if no one took your thoughts, opinions, > or perspectives seriously? > > Think about it, please. Set aside your fixed assumptions. Including > your assumptions about the writers of the words you disagree with > here. And then return to SANET, and try LISTENING to what the > farmers, inspectors, processors, activists, policy makers, etc., on > this list are saying. I believe--based on years of experience > here--that there are many valuable ideas exchanged in this group. I > believe you will find that to be the case. They may not be *your* > ideas, nor ones you immediately agree with or understand. But value > is not measured in this way. > > > > There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. > > Dennis has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of > > technology, much more of the world's natural forest ecosystems > > would be turned into food production. > > Since the debunking of several of his ostensibly "scientific" > assertions (most recently, his comments on E. coli in organic food), > you will find many people here not willing to take his word on much > of anything. Except, perhaps, his self-proclaimed role as > "contrarian." > > > > Our high yield management systems in the US can do much more to > > help save the rain forests and deserts and to protect fragile > > ecosystems than any other option we have before us. Most of our > > food crops could not survive in nature. Most of our agriculture > > could not survive without continuous infusion of technology. It is > > our success with technology that gives us the abundance and > > efficiency that allows more people to NOT be involved in food > > production. I doubt that you will find a large percentage of the > > 98% non-producers who would trade their life styles with going back > > to producing their own food. > > You are setting up a big Man Of Straw here. > > We at CIAS are constantly swamped with requests for information, > training, mentoring, internships, etc., from people who would love to > produce food for themselves and others. I had this same experience > over ten years as a community gardening activist in Wisconsin. In the > portion of each year that I spend in California, I see the same thing > in the cities, suburbs, and rural areas there. Is it a "large" > percentage? Damned if I know, but it's a sight more people than I can > help very effectively in a given month. > > Look at your assumptions, Harold. These people who come to us for > assistance in getting into farming don't see growing as "going back." > They see it as going forward, into a future where their food security > is not dependent upon the dicta and perspectives of ever-fewer > increasingly powerful corporations whose main goal is an ROI to pass > along to stockholders. Or institutions whose decision makers wouldn't > know what end of a seed to put in the ground first if you dug the > hole for them. They see growing food as an act of grace, of > connection, and of human dignity. They don't see it as a "trade" of > anything. Except maybe the time they'd otherwise spend consuming > pointless, soul-murdering consumer drek through their eyes and ears. > > And may I remind you of the many millions of people who *do* produce > their own food, but are not counted as farmers by the statistics > folks? > > > > Maybe instead of complaining about the direction of this list, I > > should just remove my name from it. For now, thanks for letting me > > vent my concerns. > > You have the option both to withdraw from communications that trouble > you...as well as becoming part of that, both as a "venter"...and as a > listener. I would like to invite you to stick around for a year or > two. Stretch your tolerance a bit. You might learn something here. > And so might we, from you. > > Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and also for considering mine. > > > peace > misha > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems > UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences > Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 > http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > There is something fascinating about science. > One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture > out of such trifling investment of fact. > --Mark Twain > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, > use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 13:33:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA20349 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA17252 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:25:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA17142 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JB6KPMVIV40004OQ@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:16:20 PDT Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 14 May 1999 09:22:06 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 14 May 1999 09:22:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 09:18:56 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: Low-caffeine coffees To: "'Bluestem Associates'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D803B@10.248.cabi.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 802 The paper referred to below states that the selection of C. liberica var. dewevrei the authors were using had 1% caffeine on a dry weight basis, and that C. pseudozanguebariae contains a large amount of a specific heteroside [glycoside] diterpene which is involved in the bitterness of the coffee beverage. Analysis of caffeine content indicated that this trait is under polygenic control with a strong genetic effect. However, only one major gene seemed to be involved in the control of presence/absence of caffeine in beans. The specific heteroside diterpene seemed to be controlled by one major gene. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bluestem Associates [SMTP:bluestem@webserf.net] > Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 3:15 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Low-caffeine coffees > > On Fri, 14 May 1999 06:49:14 -0700, Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) > wrote: > > >Barre, P. et al. (1998) Inheritance of caffeine and heteroside contents > in > >an interspecific cross between a cultivated coffee species Coffea > liberica > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > >var. dewevrei and a wild species caffeine-free C. pseudozanguebariae. > >Theoretical and Applied Genetics vol 96 no. 2 pp. 306-311 > > Did they state why they crossed it with *liberica*? That species is > generally known for its extremely high caffeine content (in some cases > exceeding 8% !!). Typically arabica X3 = robusta X3 = liberica for > caffeine content. > > A lot of the Andean arabicas are well below 1% caffeine, depending on > the strain grown. There may be arabica strains out there that are > virtually caffeine free already but no one has prospected them. They > probably get mixed in with higher caffeine stuff and disappear into > commerce unnoticed. > > Most of the organic coffees out of the Andes are low-caffeine arabicas > and quite a good brew if roasted right. > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 13:43:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA20527 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27649 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:43:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from NIH2WAAD (smtp4.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27638 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:43:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:43:09 -0400 Received: from [216.192.80.41] (mid-qbu-nqt-vty109.as.wcom.net [216.192.112.109]) by hil-img-ims-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.7) with ESMTP id MAA12328 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: LawsonValentine@pop.site1.csi.com Message-Id: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:41:20 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Lucy Miller Subject: Re:gardens in NYC Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 803 I want to second Gaby Imberman's comments re: the Divine Intervention. While we owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to those who collaborated to purchase the gardens, we've had to witness the disgusting spectacle of "our" Mayor holding these gardens for ransom. His henchmen are describing this as a "win-win situation," because the amount of money they extorted for these properties was well over the minimum bid anticipated. I haven't seen anyone comment on this, but the other thing Giuliani's administration achieved was a series of editorials in which the city's major papers have gone on record stating that "if these properties were guaranteed to be used for housing, then the gardens might need to go." Now the HPD is targeting about 350 gardens for housing -- and we've given them a ready-made argument to use. Those "real heroes," the gardeners who created the movement, are already girding for the next battle. Stay tuned. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 13:47:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA20625 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29190 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:46:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA29106 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 4875 ; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:48:46 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 4853; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:48:46 -0400 Message-Id: <14MAY99.13837882.0074.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:48:46 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: Stuart Hill in australia Subject: The organic farming myth X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 804 A collegue was cleaning out some files and recently dropped an old paper on my desk. For those with an interest in the history of organic farming, I think you will enjoy having a look. It reads like something that might have inspired a young Mr. Avery. The original has been added to EAP's "propaganda" file. We do not have a date for the paper, but think it may have been written during the 1950's or early 1960's. Perhaps someone at Kansas State might be able to help out. The document can be found on the EAP Web Site at: www.eap.mcgill.ca/indices/Organic_agriculture/OAM.htm. I have included here the first two paragaphs from the paper. They provide a fairly good indication of the author's point of view. John Henning, Ecol. Agr. Projects McGill University, H9X 3V9 VOX: 514-398-7826/7820 FAX: 8130 NET: INF3@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA WEB: WWW.EAP.MCGILL.CA WWW.AGRENV.MCGILL.CA/AGRECON =========================================== THE ORGANIC FARMING MYTH by R.I.Throckmorton Dean, Kansas State College In recent years there has grown up in this country a cult of misguided people who call themselves "organic farmers" and who would - if they could - destroy the chemical fertilizer industry on which so much of our agriculture depends. These so-called organic farmers preach a strange, two-pronged doctr1ne compounded mainly of pure superstition and myth, with just enough half-truth, pseudo science and emotion thrown in to make their statements sound plausible to the uninformed. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 14:17:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA21351 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA22026 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.oakweb.com ([206.155.36.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA21995 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 13:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from california.net ([208.147.34.90]) by mail.oakweb.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-39373U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA89 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 10:23:15 -0700 Message-ID: <373C5DAE.45FE2905@california.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:30:22 -0700 From: Sara Prout X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: gardens in NYC References: <3.0.5.32.19990513133755.00862630@pop.oxy.edu> <373C3469.96D9BB6D@california.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 805 > It's unfortunate that the city could not see the > social benefit (and even crime prevention effect) that these gardens provide, > and that an individual had to save the day, but I guess that's the way things > work sometimes. Blessed be, that it has come to this resolution. > > Sara > > Erika Higgins wrote: > > > A Victory for all gardeners! Thank you divine Miss M!!! > > > > (from the New York Times - 5/13/99) > > A day before the Giuliani administration was to auction off city-owned > > lots that had been transformed into community gardens, the performer Bette > > Midler had her private conservation organization agree to buy dozens of the > > less desirable parcels, providing the final financing to preserve all 112 > > gardens that were set for sale. > > > > The 11th-hour announcement ended a long-running dispute between city > > officials who said the parcels were ripe for sale and residents who viewed > > themselves as gardeners tending to verdant oases in neighborhoods of > > concrete and steel. But the fate of more than 600 other lots that were not > > part of the auction remains unclear. > > > > Nevertheless, the $1.2 million purchase of 51 lots by the New York > > Restoration Project -- arranged by a singer and actress better known for > > her engaging flamboyance than for her diplomatic skills -- provided a vital > > piece in the city's negotiations with environmental groups. > > > > The offer cleared the way for another conservation group, the Trust for > > Public Land, to buy the rest of the 112 parcels for $3 million, a figure > > that included an additional $1 million from Ms. Midler's organization. > > > > According to the deal, the two organizations are to work out plans to turn > > over the properties to the community groups that tend to the gardens. If > > the properties are ever used for anything other than gardens, ownership > > will revert to the city, said Deputy Mayor Randy Levine, who helped in the > > negotiations. > > > > ------------------------------- > > Erika Higgins > > ehiggins@oxy.edu > > 323-259-1426 > > Community Food Security Project > > Occidental College > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 15:11:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA22870 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA16524 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:13:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16463 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA06431 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990514141817.007d4100@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:18:17 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Science Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 806 Do people really still believe that science is "value free?" They must be the same people who believe that journalism is "objective." Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 15:14:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA23304 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA14095 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:07:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA14041 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.21] (gl-ppp01.hevanet.com [204.119.60.21]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21688; Fri, 14 May 1999 11:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905141807.LAA21688@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:02:45 -0700 Subject: FW: Iron-Hungry Compound Can Glow as Satisfaction Grows From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 807 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Iron-Hungry Compound Can Glow as Satisfaction Grows Date: Fri, May 14, 1999, 6:59 AM STORY LEAD: Iron-Hungry Compound Can Glow as Satisfaction Grows ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 14, 1999 Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Detecting trace levels of iron in biological samples within two minutes is now possible with a new procedure developed by Agricultural Research Service scientists. In the new procedure, the scientists used a special chemical, called a pyoverdine, produced by the beneficial bacterium Pseudomonas fluorescens. Pyoverdine can be used to create a biosensor. Biosensors, which rely on living organisms or their by- products to identify and gauge chemical concentrations, can be immersed in liquids and monitored by computers. Under ultraviolet light, the pyoverdine normally takes on a yellow greenish glow that quickly subsides as iron is absorbed. But the researchers saw a strikingly different scene when they mixed a solution, called an acetate buffer, with the pyoverdine and then added the combination to test samples containing as little as 10 parts per billion iron. Instead of quickly subsiding, the glow steadily increased for several minutes. The more iron present, the slower was the rate of increase. The researchers have applied for a patent on the iron detection method. Now, ARS is seeking an industrial partner to develop the pyoverdine-acetate combination for an analytical process known as kinetic fluorometry. For example, in some parts of the world, a simple kit might be used to monitor increased iron levels in urine as patients are treated with an antimalarial drug. Or someday more sophisticated tools, fiber-optic biosensors, might monitor iron during water, food, pharmaceutical and chemical processing. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Patricia J. Slininger, ARS, National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., phone (309) 681-6286, fax (309) 681-6427, slininpj@mail.ncaur.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 16:12:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA24511 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA20764 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:16:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA20726 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00CC1D9B@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:15:06 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 14 May 99 15:15:52 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 14 May 99 15:15:25 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:15:17 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Avery's assumptions X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <56D970C48AA@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 808 Bart Hall wrote: >Unlike many on this list, I largely agree with Mr. Avery's logic. >Perhaps it is because I have worked in areas of Latin America where >every critter larger than a squirrel has long-since disappeared into >a stewpot. From his initial assumptions, Avery draws a reasonable >series of conclusions. The problem that I have with the Avery assumption and proclamation that modern agriculture will save rainforests, environmental degradation and hunger is that it is based on a lot mis-information. First of all, the phenomenon of 3rd world agrarian peasants clearing the forests to eak out their livings isn't because they have not been brought into the wonders of the modern world. It is more like because they have been the victims of it. All over the world, there is hunger because there is a mal-distribution of the over-supply of world food and this mal-distribution holds true for basic education, land, health care, and on and on. There has also been a break down of the old, sustainable ag customs in most parts of the world as well as a gobbling up of the best ag land by wealthy land owners who do not actually need it to produce food (and what food they may produce doesn't go to the poor masses anyway) and at the same time there has been little good modern education to fill the void. So, we have lots of poor, hungry people on marginal lands with neither traditional wisdom nor modern education to help them be more successful farmers or even to give them much hope. Is it any wonder they might cut down forests and stick every spare bird and critter in the stewpot? If we go even further in the corporate farming (monoculture, GE, agro-chems, industrial size...) paradigm, I just don't understand how it can be argued that this will help either hunger or the environmental effects of poor, desperate people? Now, if there were more time and attention put into helping marginalized farmers get back to many old, sustainable ways along with educating them as to the new culture techniques we've discovered since (and helping them to reclaim their love and respect for land and ecosystems), and if good ag lands and market access were made available for serious farmers, THEN I think we might see some postive changes in terms of hunger AND re-forestation. Seems to me that organic agriculture has a lot to offer in this regard. The problem of deforestation, environmental degradation, poverty and hunger are not due to organic and/or sustainable production practices. They have a lot to do with greed, mis-management, bad politics, corruption, ignorance and the breakdown of traditional cultures (people cultures and plant cultures) as well as civil wars, unregulated pollution and urban sprawl, including golf courses, dumps, industrial parks, highways and parking lots. This won't be easily solved by fancy ag technology. What I CAN see the proliferation of corporate farming doing in the developing countries is the same as I see in this country, only worse (because there are fewer mediating forces). Farmers (already a dieing species in developing countries too) will be forced off their lands into the squalor of the cities where their lack of training and education makes them vulnerable to the vaguaries of the cheap-labor market (and "cheap" food doesn't mean much when you have to struggle to pay for it), cities will continue to sprawl, and forests will continue to be chopped down because of the value of their timber or the land they sit on (think of the office buildings, the rents! and we have to put our toxic waste somewhere!) and whatever connection people may have still had toward the land will continually diminish until the world clamors for monocrop chem lawns and landscaped vistas instead of those untidy, dirty "brush" areas (formerly known as forests, wetlands, prairies, etc.) Avery (and ADM I see has similar adds on tv now) is giving us a bait and switch, in my opinion. He baits us with "this is good for the environment" and the 'switch' is that it is good for a bunch of conspicuous corporations and their stock holders who have not shown much benevolent interest in ecosystems, that I can see, so far. Forests can't express economic demand (and neither can poor people to an appreciable extent), so this approach to let the "invisible hand" (which is becoming increasinly *visible*, imo) make these sorts of decisions is asking for trouble. I applaud all of you (many of whom are more technically astute and articulate than I) for balking at this and pointing out it's flaws. And thank you Alex for referencing the tale of the "Emperor's New Cloths." Sorry to make this letter so long, but I don't know how to say it more succinctly. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 16:19:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA24691 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA27227 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:23:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sophri.oxy.edu (root@sophri.cc.oxy.edu [134.69.3.111]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA27208 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from temp1.ipac.oxy.edu (ipac-something1.ipac.oxy.edu [134.69.11.79]) by sophri.oxy.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA09675; Fri, 14 May 1999 12:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990514122118.007e5750@pop.oxy.edu> X-Sender: ehiggins@pop.oxy.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:21:18 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, dake@idt.net, ben@windowbox.com, arcudi@compuserve.com From: Erika Higgins Subject: More thoughts on Community gardens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 809 Thanks to all the people responding to the nyc garden news I copied onto the list serve. I lived in NYC for many years and have recently moved to LA, and am working on community gardens here and watching in horror as giuliani destroys the most wonderful places in my home town. I completely agree that folks with lots of money buying community gardens is not a sustainable solution and that the gardeners are the heros. So very much so. The garden I am a member of in LA is in danger too (private land being sold out from under us), and several others, and we on the LA Garden Council are trying to pressure the city now into making a mission statement supporting community gardens, etc, in other words force their hand before crisis - ie learn from nyc! But all that said, I was so happy yesterday, just a couple of hours to stop fretting and freaking, and say, ah...112 gardens are safe for now. Important to take a moment to thank celebrity friends with good action, as well as all those who have fought and spoken up and worked to make this happen. Especially Greenthumb and Green Guerillas who do amazing and important work. Giuliani is still an ass, the gardens are still in danger, we still must fight...but wonderful sustainable ag activists, we should not deprive ourselves of a few moments of joy too! Some gardens were saved, let's smell the flowers, sit on the benches, take off our shoes, and breathe. From the joy, we will keep fighting. adelante, Erika Higgins ------------------------------- Erika Higgins ehiggins@oxy.edu 323-259-1426 Community Food Security Project Occidental College To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 16:35:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25224 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:35:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08523 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:43:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08503 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool033-max3.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.13.83]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id KZ39T3Y8; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:43:33 -0400 Message-ID: <373C7F34.F926A533@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:53:24 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ute Bohnsack , Sanet Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 References: <199905131747.NAA22746@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <373B5679.C082B1A7@cafarmersmarkets.org> <373BF862.DFF0FF28@tinet.ie> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 810 Here is the Nature Rodale Letter link :

    http://www.nature.com/server-java/Propub/nature/396262A0.frameset

    Phil Gillman
    Southland Farmers' Market Assoc. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 16:42:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25367 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09663 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:46:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA09612 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 15:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from haltemp.unl.edu (207.32.34.17) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Fri, 14 May 99 14:46:38 CDT Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 14 May 1999 14:42:56 -0500 Message-ID: <01BE9E18.0E271A80.AMCGUIRE1@unl.edu> From: Andrew McGuire Reply-To: "AMCGUIRE1@unl.edu" To: "Sanet (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Science Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:41:34 -0500 Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 811 Here is an interesting point of view: Science is always behind. In the beginning scientists say, "This guy's a fraud," but then their second reaction is that maybe he or she has something to say. Their third reaction is that they do have something to say but that we don't buy all of it. Their fourth reaction is that it was their idea in the first place. Then it becomes mainstream thinking, and then finally it's scientific dogma. Because science is a dogma like anything else. It can't be divorced from the context of the cultural world view. What science is very useful for is to document something that we already know" Deepak Chopra, 1993 It reminds me of the fairly recent studies showing that mother's milk is better for babies than formula. Big surprise. It also reminds me of my own reaction to some articles I read in ACRES. Andy McGuire, Extension Educator AMCGUIRE1@UNL.EDU P.O. Box 736 office 402-254-2280 Hartington NE 68739 fax 402-254-6891 University of Nebraska Cooperative Extension On Friday, May 14, 1999 1:18 PM, Mark [SMTP:earthspn@crocker.com] wrote: > Do people really still believe that science is "value free?" They must be > the same people who believe that journalism is "objective." > > Mark > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 17:47:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26902 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA25548 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:03:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25491 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA126090 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:03:11 -0500 Message-ID: <373C8F75.53C2B213@missouri.edu> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:02:45 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson Organization: University of Missouri X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Re: "Success" of modern agriculture References: <199905140245.TAA28087@sparrow.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 812 Dan: Loved your post. There's got to be a reason my brother gets up every day and farms rather than going to work for a computer firm. I also would like to point out that ADM's slogan ("Supermarket to the World") and Dennis Avery's exhortation to "feed the world" rely on the basic assumption that "the world" has the money to pay to feed itself. On a radio show with Martin Andreas, I repeatedly asked the question -- "What about the people who cannot afford to eat your products? How will you feed them?" This is an absolutely unanswerable question if one's premise is our for-profit food system. Mary -- Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. Network Coordinator Food Circles Networking Project University of Missouri Outreach and Extension Department of Rural Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 Tele: 573-882-7463 Fax: 573-882-1473 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 18:49:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01871 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA21527 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:44:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.compy-net.com (host.dex-net.com [194.184.44.118]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA21315 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 17:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qualsiasi [195.223.189.121] by mail2.compy-net.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A89CC40434; Fri, 14 May 1999 23:41:48 +03d0 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Sender: XD026Y@mail2.compy-net.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 23:06:45 +0200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: MV Subject: GMO and cars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 813 I would like to talk about the similarity between GMOs and cars. Car is a technology; it exploits nature; it causes pollution; it causes 200.000 deaths every year in the world. Nobody would like to eliminate the car technology from our planet. It is too much CONFORTABLE. Who cares on the deaths, the pollution and the nature? Think beginning of the century: if someone had said "car will kill people as a war every year", would we have had car today? But today it is too late, car is CONFORTABLE. (this thought is from Isaac Asimov) With GMOs, we are at the beginning of the century. We will have problems, pollution and maybe deaths. But if GMOs will be CONFORTABLE, nobody will renounce to them. Create a GE rice for high productivity, diseases resistant, drought tollerant, no terminator, and give it away for free. And let the against-GMO people explain why not to use it in the Third World. Create a GE peach or a GE apple variety diseases and insects resistant, constantly bearing, harvest in one time, slow ripening, high shelf-life, full bright red; doing so you cut the production costs to one half, sell the fruit cheaper than the normal fruits. And explain the consumer why they cost less... Just to see what happens. I have the maximum respect to who treats the GMO matter as a religious point of view, because they simply said "no, it is my feeling". They don't use pseudo-scientific affirmations. I have the maximum respect for religions. Often I see the use of scientific *evidences* that are not. In every experiment or pseudo-evidence against GE I have always found the lacking of the *control*, that statistically speaking is somethings very clear. Please, show me the control. The wrong beginning was to start with food. GE should have started with flowers. People (we) don't treat flowers as part of the nature. We cut them, and put in some place in the house to let them die. GE should have started with GM flowers that takes forever to die. This is confortable. People'd started to think "GE is confortable" and that's all. Maurizio Ventura To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 19:53:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA02737 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA15715 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:13:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA15642 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 19:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-5-26.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.26]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA30316; Fri, 14 May 1999 18:12:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000601be9e5f$c0f1b3e0$1a5f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "MV" Cc: Subject: Re: GMO and cars Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:16:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 814 I understand what you are saying, and it kind of adds to a question that I've had about GMO's. It seems that the US is usually one of the last countries to approve new drugs, yet here we are leading the forefront with GMO's. The countries that are quicker to legalize drugs (pharmaceuticals, not the illegal variety) seem to be the ones resisting GMO's and other agricultural technology that the US wants us all to embrace. Why is this? Someone suggested to me that perhaps it's because other countries don't have the economical investment in the ag. industry that the US does. It scares me to think that ag. companies have more "pull" than the FDA does. Why hasn't the USDA stepped in to demand more legitimate research on ag. "technology"? Lei Gunthorp Gunthorp's Pasture-ized Pork LaGrange, IN -----Original Message----- From: MV To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, May 14, 1999 5:20 PM Subject: GMO and cars > >Often I see the use of scientific *evidences* that are not. In every >experiment or pseudo-evidence against GE I have always found the lacking of >the *control*, that statistically speaking is somethings very clear. >Please, show me the control. > >The wrong beginning was to start with food. GE should have started with >flowers. People (we) don't treat flowers as part of the nature. We cut >them, and put in some place in the house to let them die. GE should have >started with GM flowers that takes forever to die. This is confortable. >People'd started to think "GE is confortable" and that's all. > >Maurizio Ventura > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 21:54:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA00671 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA28689 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:15:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA28625 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA14652 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d08-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.8]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13039; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:14:44 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Laura K. Paine" , Subject: RE: Ag Agents Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:27:14 +1000 Message-ID: <000201be9e72$10426680$083325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19990509100739.00695e64@facstaff.wisc.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 815 I enjoyed reading Laura's message below (some days ago now, so I leave it intact) and thought the questions raised very important, indeed fundamental to the 'selling' of sustainability and organic. They rattled round my head, as things do, while I spent hours out at the farm on the tractor over the last couple of days. It seems to me that most of the questions that come into Ag Dept staff are likely to have in them the words 'yield', 'pest', 'fix' and 'quick'. And I am conscious that when confronted by the pressures behind such questions in farmers' minds, it is difficult to formulate responses in organic terms, which do not turn away the anxious farmer. If there is a key, it seems to me likely to be in getting the focus of discussion onto soil health. I regard the most practicable definition of 'sustainable' as meaning that after a full cycle of farm activities, the soil is as good, preferably better than at the start of the cycle. And to see pest vulnerability and long term yield in that kind of light - the better the soil, the greater the resistance to pests, to weather, etc. This is to take some of the line of the fertiliser marketing business - "show me your soil and I'll sell you a bag of salts to fix it" - and turn it around into a focus on understanding soil as organic rather than inorganic assays. If farmers can accept that soil is alive and can be helped and encouraged to enrich itself and work with plants and animals, this is a great starting point for new thinking. And for the formulation of new and more interesting questions, a shift in vocabulary. (and a shift that gets away from the very limiting, negatively expressed notion that organic means 'pesticide free and natural fertilisers'. I don't know whether anyone has done this, but it would seem of value to have some farm planning and budgeting software designed to seek balances and outcomes not over single years of profit and loss, but in cycles comparable to whole rotations - meaningful ecological accounting periods, requiring inputs of information to draw out whether courses of action would reduce or enhance the farms ecological and commercial robustness. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Laura K. Paine Sent: Sunday, May 09, 1999 8:08 PM To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Ag Agents Hello Julie and everyone, As a new Wisconsin Ag Agent (I've got all of 2 months under my belt), I've been thinking a lot about the role of Extension in diseminating information and new technologies, especially controversial issues such as genetically modified crop varieties. Officially, I think Extension is supposed to be more or less neutral on such issues. In reality, of course, we all have our own personal opinions and these do end up being reflected in our programming to some degree. That may or may not have entered into your agent's GMO comments. There's another, more important, aspect of the ag agent's role that comes into play here. I don't know what your ag agent's personal views are concerning GMOs, but I do know that ag agents walk a fine line in providing support and information to the farmers in his or her county. If your agent's county is anything like mine, he is expected to serve a broad spectrum of growers and producers. Extension is one of many sources of information available to farmers. They are under no obligation to come to us for information--it is our job to seek them out and provide appropriate information for those who are inclined to listen. Whatever our personal views on agricultural issues, the last thing we wish to do is alienate our clientele. An alienated farmer is one who is unlikely to return to the Extension service for information of any sort--we've lost them to other sources of information, most likely their seed and chemical suppliers. If we wish to influence farmers toward more sustainable practices, we are unlikely to do so unless we gain and maintain their trust. There are always those who are on the 'cutting edge' of sustainable practices, but the vast majority are not and in order to reach them, we must make Extension a source of reliable, basic information to assist them in making their own decisions about how they farm. People are far more open to new information and change when it comes from a trusted source. That's the view from where I sit, anyway. Kindest regards, Laura At 10:25 PM 5/7/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >Dale wrote: > >> I'm kind of mystified by your reaction. Mainly they were urging farmers >to >> be careful and avoid contamination. What exactly did you disagree with in >> that posting? > >Hi Dale, > >Gosh, you are the 2nd mystified person I've heard from today on this post, >so perhaps some elaboration is in order. > >Yes, the ag agent is suggesting separation of GE corn from non-GE corn. >First, this is the LEAST of additional costs for the farmer in this >scenario, and should be considered in choosing seed for the season. Maybe >possible for some farmers - separate storage facilities, but for smaller >farms, probably unlikely. The 660 ft. "buffer" is something I'd sure be >hard-pressed to see in my area of Wisconsin. Corn, etc. is planted right >into the ditches here...often creating an actual road hazard! Every inch of >taxed property is used for production. And he even suggests that 250-300 ft. >is really sufficient based on wind direction "and other factors" - give me a >break, pretty vague, subjective stuff there. My neighbors plant corn with in >60 feet of my land & they aren't going to quit (lowering their bottom line) >because they're worried about contaminating MY crop! Sorry, but that's the >way it is. That's why our farm is listed as a plaintiff in the Greenpeace >suit. > >The insinuation made by this agent (saying that Europe, etc. have NOT YET >approved GMOs) is misleading...as if its just a matter of time, rather than >a matter of public outrage & pressure against it, which is really the case. >In fact Nestle & Unilever (a couple of the biggest food producers in the >world) have just announced they will NOT be using GE components in their >foodstuffs - and Cadbury has followed (Hooray!!) see: >http://ens.lycos.com/ens/apr99/1999L-04-28-03.html > >Saying its acceptable, if you're feeding it out, is further reason for >concern IMO. Typical big biz, big ag jive...if you're giving it to a cow it >doesn't matter. Regarding milk & meat, as if the body of a cow somehow >negates the effect or "cleanses" the contamination of GE feed she >ingests..that it will not be long before milk (and meat tissue) from a >GE-fed cow will also be detectable through testing. > >And the most irritating part to me is the advice to keep abreast of >developments at your local elevator...lets say the local elevator is ok with >GE now, but in the fall, the policy has changed? What new bans will be in >place at harvest time? Why risk it? And ultimately, who is risking what >here? It's not the ag agent...he just says, "oops, sorry", its not the >elevator, they'll refuse the grain...its the farmer, as always, left holding >the bag (of grain) Are grain elevators going to create separate handling as >well, strict cleaning of bins, etc? Sounds like organic standards to me. >Nope, they will simply not accept it...too costly. > >Who pays the bill when bins of grain are contaminated by the non-GE farmer >who's corn was crossed & he assures the elevator its "clean", but >contaminates tons of export-bound corn...yup, that farmer will be paying >too. Just as a dairy farmer who contaminates a truckload of milk with >antibiotics pays for the entire load (and carries milk-contamination >coverage under his farm insurance policy) some farmers are going to get hit >hard before this is over...and it will probably be the ones who aren't even >using the GE seed! I suggest to you that insurance companies will be looking >long & hard at this issue before long. > >So this is why I'm disturbed. It does not matter one little bit if you are >"on top of the situation", informed. Once that corn is in the ground...its >done. If you don't have animals to feed it to, you're stuck. If you're a >grain farmer, you have taken a far bigger risk than is necessary. The >writing is on the wall, and the ag agents should be presenting both sides of >the issue, rather than doing everything they can to keep this technology >alive & well in this country, the last stronghold of biotech. > >So my biggest complaint is the lack of a rounded picture for the farmer, so >that he can make an intelligent decision. Its a subversive advertisement for >Monsanto, their seed, their chemicals and the destruction of the environment >that they peddle. The ag agent has a responsibility to suggest the best >farming practices known to him/her. To digress to suggesting ways in which >to possibly minimize financial (and environmental) disaster is unacceptable. > >Hope this helps you understand my concern... > >Julie > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Laura Paine Crops and Soils Agent Columbia County Agriculture Center 120 West Conant Street PO Box 567 Portage, WI 53901-0567 608/742-9680 FAX: 608/742-9862 laura.paine@ces.uwex.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 21:55:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA01067 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA05685 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:24:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05661 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp208.epix.net [209.74.60.208]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id VAA07494; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373CCE2F.58F79529@epix.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:30:23 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary Hendrickson CC: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Re: "Success" of modern agriculture References: <199905140245.TAA28087@sparrow.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <373C8F75.53C2B213@missouri.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 816 Mary Hendrickson wrote: > I also would like to point out that ADM's slogan ("Supermarket to the > World") and Dennis Avery's exhortation to "feed the world" rely on the > basic assumption that "the world" has the money to pay to feed itself. > On a radio show with Martin Andreas, I repeatedly asked the question -- > "What about the people who cannot afford to eat your products? How will > you feed them?" This is an absolutely unanswerable question if one's > premise is our for-profit food system. How can I continue farming and not make a profit? Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 22:17:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01300 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:17:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA16186 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:40:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA16174 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.48]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 14 May 1999 20:38:57 -0500 Message-ID: <199905142037340810.0279FDCE@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:37:34 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "MV" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: GMO and cars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAA16178 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 817 Hi Maurizio, >Create a GE rice for high productivity, diseases resistant, drought >tollerant, no terminator, and give it away for free. And let the >against-GMO people explain why not to use it in the Third World. > >Create a GE peach or a GE apple variety diseases and insects resistant, >constantly bearing, harvest in one time, slow ripening, high shelf-life, >full bright red; doing so you cut the production costs to one half, sell >the fruit cheaper than the normal fruits. And explain the consumer why they >cost less... Just to see what happens. I have a word for this: "Fantasy" (If it were true, if it were the whole story, the word would be "Fantastic"). However .... (there will be no shortage of responses explaining to Maurizio - who has contributed some good posts in the past - the difference between living, sexually derived organisms and cars). DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 14/05/99 at 11:06 PM MV wrote: >I would like to talk about the similarity between GMOs and cars. >Car is a technology; it exploits nature; it causes pollution; it causes >200.000 deaths every year in the world. Nobody would like to eliminate the >car technology from our planet. It is too much CONFORTABLE. Who cares on >the deaths, the pollution and the nature? >Think beginning of the century: if someone had said "car will kill people >as a war every year", would we have had car today? But today it is too >late, car is CONFORTABLE. >(this thought is from Isaac Asimov) > >With GMOs, we are at the beginning of the century. We will have problems, >pollution and maybe deaths. But if GMOs will be CONFORTABLE, nobody will >renounce to them. > >Create a GE rice for high productivity, diseases resistant, drought >tollerant, no terminator, and give it away for free. And let the >against-GMO people explain why not to use it in the Third World. > >Create a GE peach or a GE apple variety diseases and insects resistant, >constantly bearing, harvest in one time, slow ripening, high shelf-life, >full bright red; doing so you cut the production costs to one half, sell >the fruit cheaper than the normal fruits. And explain the consumer why they >cost less... Just to see what happens. > >I have the maximum respect to who treats the GMO matter as a religious >point of view, because they simply said "no, it is my feeling". They don't >use pseudo-scientific affirmations. I have the maximum respect for religions. > >Often I see the use of scientific *evidences* that are not. In every >experiment or pseudo-evidence against GE I have always found the lacking of >the *control*, that statistically speaking is somethings very clear. >Please, show me the control. > >The wrong beginning was to start with food. GE should have started with >flowers. People (we) don't treat flowers as part of the nature. We cut >them, and put in some place in the house to let them die. GE should have >started with GM flowers that takes forever to die. This is confortable. >People'd started to think "GE is confortable" and that's all. > >Maurizio Ventura > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 22:22:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01347 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA19181 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:48:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19175 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp208.epix.net [209.74.60.208]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id VAA10790 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373CD3DD.65744472@epix.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:54:37 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: 2nd year N contribution on legumes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 818 sanet, Anyone have info on the 2nd year N contribution from legumes? I had a field that last year had food grade soybeans (yielded 45 bu.) on the one side and sweet corn that was no-till planted into vetch/crimson clover on the other side. In the fall I seeded both sides of the field with rye. Now this spring, the side that had the vetch/clover last year is noticeably more lush. The beans gave some N I'm sure, but the legume gave more apparently. I just thought this observation was interesting and wondered if anyone else had similar findings. Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 14 22:41:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01525 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA28818 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:03:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA28803 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.48]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:02:58 -0500 Message-ID: <199905142101350340.028FF9BB@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <373CCE2F.58F79529@epix.net> References: <199905140245.TAA28087@sparrow.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <373C8F75.53C2B213@missouri.edu> <373CCE2F.58F79529@epix.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:01:35 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sgroff@epix.net Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: "Success" of modern agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA28808 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 819 Hi Steve, I think that what Mary means is that many of the environmental and health care costs are being passed on to consumers, tax payers and future generations, at the expense of the better quality of life that would be possible if food quality were given more emphasis and the bottom line was given less. My own feeling is that people WILL pay more for quality but unfortunately, not everyone has it to give. Vested interests are real interests and must be overcome by other and more universal vested interests, which will also be more human. We all want you to "continue farming and make a profit" at it. (I am speaking for everyone today). DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 14/05/99 at 9:30 PM Steve Groff wrote: >Mary Hendrickson wrote: > >> I also would like to point out that ADM's slogan ("Supermarket to the >> World") and Dennis Avery's exhortation to "feed the world" rely on the >> basic assumption that "the world" has the money to pay to feed itself. >> On a radio show with Martin Andreas, I repeatedly asked the question -- >> "What about the people who cannot afford to eat your products? How will >> you feed them?" This is an absolutely unanswerable question if one's >> premise is our for-profit food system. > >How can I continue farming and not make a profit? > >Steve Groff > >-- >"Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com >Cedar Meadow Farm >679 Hilldale Rd >Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 00:44:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA03466 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA06997 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 14 May 1999 23:56:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA06937 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 23:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu (Mizzou-AS1-19.missouri.edu [128.206.205.19]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA94844 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 22:56:06 -0500 Message-ID: <373CF03E.3B920E41@missouri.edu> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:55:42 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson Organization: University of Missouri X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: For-profit food system Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 820 In my response to criticizing ADM and others for "feeding the world" Steve wrote: > How can I continue farming and not make a profit? > > Steve Groff > Let me clarify my original message. Of course farming has to be economically viable. I find it astounding however that ADM should tout their slogan of feeding the world when "the world" is plainly not who they are trying to feed. They are trying to feed those who have money to buy their products so what happens is that much food gets produced in the have-not nations of the world to be consumed in the have nations of the world. It's also been shown that much of the increase in yields we've experienced in this century has had the ironic effect of making more people hungry by driving them out of subsistence agricultures and into cash crops. Clearly, as we've discussed before on this list, hunger is more a function of political, social and economic context rather than strictly a production problem. However, feeding hungry people is not something we've addressed very well in the sustainable agriculture movement in Canada and the US. It's not because we don't want to. Sustainable farmers work hard and need to be paid justly for their efforts. Sometimes this makes this wholesome food unaffordable to limited resource families, however. Meanwhile, large agribusinesses are dumping surpluses, overruns, unasethically packaged food and the like into our system of food banks and pantries so that emergency food sources have to rely on industrialized agriculture rather than sustainable agriculture for food for the hungry. One way that many groups are trying to address these issues is to help people again try to feed themselves from small plots in both urban and rural areas. On the whole, though, the critique of sustainable agriculture, or alternative food systems, as mainly for the middle class remains somewhat valid. I don't have good answers but would like to see we in the sustainable agriculture movement work in this area as well. Mary -- Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. Network Coordinator Food Circles Networking Project University of Missouri Outreach and Extension Department of Rural Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 Tele: 573-882-7463 Fax: 573-882-1473 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 01:10:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA03626 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 01:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA24198 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:23:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA24184 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool606-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.96]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15336; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373BE9AC.60031EC9@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 02:15:25 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fjohnson@cillnet.com CC: sanet-mg Subject: Re: Cover Crop Incorporation References: <373A67D7.C955CAAC@cillnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 821 Weeds never seem to have any trouble germinating and growing fast even on just-turned-under greencrop. ============== Floyd Johnson wrote: > I don't think any thing could compete in this cover. maybe if rolling > will kill it then we could Aer-Way it and No-till plant. But for the > microbes is the residue better on top or incorporated in top 6" or > deeper?We are trying to build our soil organic matter to 5% or more. > The rolling stalk chopper requires rye to be at least 18" for it to > work most people say to kill it sooner.Will chopper work on red clover > and what would be the time frame? > Elane Ingam spoke about microbes an said the best thing we could do for > them is to keep living roots in soil all of the time. If we kill cover > early to keep it from getting to big ,but cant plant for a while, what > impact is this having on the microbes? Is there any reason to feed > anaerobic microbes? > > hschomberg@ag.gov wrote: > > > > Floyd > > > > I am a nieve researcher in the southeast and was wondering why you don't > > plant dirrectly into the residue. That's how I have been working with some > > of the plant material here. I know when we dirrectly plant into green > > material it is a problem but the planting operation seems to crush the > > clover the rye however is a real problem. We are currently looking at > > rolling cover crops to kill them ahead of planting. Wayne Reeves over at > > Auburn is also trying this and has had some success. If you have a forage > > chopper or a cultipacker or something similar you might give it a try. > > I'd be interested in how your system is working. > > > > Harry Schomberg > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > hschomberg@ag.gov > > Harry Schomberg > > USDA-ARS > > 1420 Experiment Station Rd > > Watkinsville, GA 30677-2373 > > 706-769-5631 x 222 FAX 706-769-8962 > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 01:22:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA03715 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 01:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA24175 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:23:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA24166 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 00:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool606-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.96]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15138; Fri, 14 May 1999 21:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373BE879.643583ED@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 02:10:18 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Harold Reetz CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 References: <002a01be9cfb$2f2aa1c0$cba7fea9@ibm770> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 822 If you want to defend Avery, I can certainly understand your thinking about dropping this list. Harold Reetz wrote: > After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I find it > difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" that are included > in this "list" without responding. It appears that this is really a forum > for the anti-science, anti-industry people to post their ideas and their > attacks on science and industry. Comments such as the importance of > "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have made > in agriculture has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be a > general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about GMOs and > other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. > > I had hoped this was a forum for a more balanced discussion and assessment > of facts. I guess that is asking too much. But I am concerned about the > comments that the new technologies in agriculture are creating hazards and > quality problems when there is no evidence to support such claims. > Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember in the > "good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not nearly so much a > result of technology as it is our nations desire to have cheap, abundant and > healthy food. We use technology to accomplish that better than any other > nation in the world. Our success makes it possible for 98% of our > population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for > the science and technology and the large-scale intensive production systems > we have implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced > into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who do grow > it. > > I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and disease > problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. Doing it with GMOs, with > cultural practices, and overall systems management, we have a great story to > tell. There is apparently a certain population who feel obliged to attack > progress. They fought pesticides and when we replaced pesticide use with > GMOs, many of the same people jumped from the anti-pesticide bandwagon to > the anti-GMO bandwagon. > > Another comment in this thread points out that many of the world's food > problems are political, rather than production problems. That is true. And > the kind of discussions this thread is fostering help to support those > political problems. > > There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. Dennis > has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of technology, much > more of the world's natural forest ecosystems would be turned into food > production. Our high yield management systems in the US can do much more to > help save the rain forests and deserts and to protect fragile ecosystems > than any other option we have before us. Most of our food crops could not > survive in nature. Most of our agriculture could not survive without > continuous infusion of technology. It is our success with technology that > gives us the abundance and efficiency that allows more people to NOT be > involved in food production. I doubt that you will find a large percentage > of the 98% non-producers who would trade their life styles with going back > to producing their own food. > > Maybe instead of complaining about the direction of this list, I should just > remove my name from it. For now, thanks for letting me vent my concerns. > > Harold Reetz > > Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. > Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute > Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research > 111 East Washington Street > Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 > > Phone: 217-762-2074 > FAX: 217-762-8655 > e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org > PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org > InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 > Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu > [mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 12:03 PM > To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 > > sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, May 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1012 > > In this issue: > > RE: information and extension's role > Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK > Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods > Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy > health insurance > FW: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste > Credit where credit is due department ... > Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE > Re: health insurance > Re: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK > New book on community-supported agriculture (CSA) > Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy > > See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:31:51 -0500 > From: Andrew McGuire > Subject: RE: information and extension's role > > Thank you Bill for your post. I agree with it and support your position. > As a relative newcomer to extension, I have learned quickly that any > questions about where the technology will lead us is soon countered with > "that is your opinion" or "stick to science-based information." The idea > that we can present information with no values attached, the neutral > science argument, seems to be prevalent in extension. I believe that it is > impossible to not bring in values to our work. If we try to eliminate > values, then they will sneak into the vacuum and we have values by default, > which are the worst kind, because we do not even recognize them. > > Here in Nebraska, there is lots of talk about listening to the people and > designing an extension program to serve their needs. Well, it seems to me > that the land grant universities have been doing that for many years and > rural areas, at least the rural area I live in, has been declining in turn. > Maybe it is because extension, even more so than the population they > serve, resists the change needed to make real progress in those areas that > come up over and over in their need assessments, such as ag profitability, > rural quality of life, and natural resource conservation. Extension and > the university see themselves as mainstream and mainstreet, and so find it > hard to take any action that will direct them away from the current food > system, Walmart, and McDonalds. > > Again, I concur with what Bill has said, we must decide where we want to > go, then decide which tools have the most potential to take us there, and > use them. > > Respectfully, > > Andy McGuire, Extension Educator > AMCGUIRE1@UNL.EDU > P.O. Box 736 office 402-254-2280 > Hartington NE 68739 fax 402-254-6891 > University of Nebraska Cooperative Extension > > On Tuesday, May 11, 1999 6:18 PM, Bill Liebhardt > [SMTP:wcliebhardt@ucdavis.edu] wrote: > > > > As a native of Wisconsin I found the posts of Julie and Laura raising > > questions that are at the core of what it is to be in the land grant > system > > and what our role is in developing information and getting it out. I > have > > often raised questions about where we are going with GMO's and that whole > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:37:01 +0000 > From: "Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE)" > Subject: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK > > Dear All, > > I am currently conducting research into the CSA experience in the US, with a > view to looking at whether the principle would translate to the UK farming > system. > > Through conducting various word searches on the internet I have managed to > obtain some very interesting background information on the CSA experience in > US, this included articles by Robyn Van En, UMass and MISA. I am also in > the > process of obtaining a report entitled "Facing a Watershed: Managing > Profitable > and Sustainable Landscapes in the 21st Century" from the University of > Nebraska, and also a report which showcases ten years of SARE entitled "Ten > Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress" from Andy > Clark > Ph.D, at the National Agricultural Library, Beltsville, MD. > > Do you know of any other reports/publications that provide an overview of > the > CSA experience in the US so far?. Highlights, problems, legalities etc. (I > already hold details of UMass Extension reading list, shown on the website). > If applicable I would also be grateful if you could point me in the > direction > of any actual or planned research that considers the translation of the CSA > approach to the UK farming system. I have searched the internet for UK > examples but as yet have had no luck. > > Thank you very much for your assistance. > > Kind Regards > > Paul > > PAUL COOK > Farming & Forestry Branch > Countryside Agency > John Dower House > Crescent Place > Cheltenham > Gloucestershire > GL50 3RA > England > UK > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:53:40 -0800 > From: colibri@west.net > Subject: Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods > > Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods > > MADRID, Spain, May 11, 1999 (ENS) - Spain's largest supermarket chain, > Pryca, announced Monday that it is phasing out the use of genetically > modified (GM) ingredients in own-brand food products sold in its 58 stores. > > Genetically modified foodstuffs include some varieties of soy beans, canola > oil, corn, cottonseed oil, potatoes, squash and tomatoes. > > Describing the decision as "a response to public fears," a Pryca > spokesperson said that the company had instructed suppliers to stop using GM > ingredients in products which carry the company trademark by the end of this > year. > > Carrefour, the supermarket giant which owns the largest shareholding in > Pryca, has already introduced a similar measure in its French stores. > > Pryca's decision was described by the Spanish Consumers' Union as "a > marketing exercise" and "ineffective because GM ingredients are so > widespread and difficult to identify." > > Laurate canola is a proprietary product marketed by Calgene Oils under the > brand name LAURICAL(r). Approved in the U.S. and Canada, it is used in > confectionery coatings, coffee whiteners, icings and whipped toppings as > well as in soaps. However, Diego Herranz of the environmental group > Ecologists in Action welcomed the move and said his organisation expected > the decision to cause "a chain reaction against GM ingredients." The group > has been pressing for a similar undertaking from other major Spanish food > retailers. > > Marks and Spencer Espaqa and Nestli Espaqa said that their companies' policy > was neither to sell nor produce foods containing genetically-modified > ingredients. > > Spain is the biggest importer of GM soya and the European Union's only > significant producer of GM maize. > > Some 19,000 hectares of GM maize (corn) were planted last year, according to > government figures. The upper house of the Spanish parliament today begins > debating a new law on the production and sale of foods which will include > the issue of genetically modified ingredients. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:57:59 -0600 > From: Jane Sooby > Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy > > Dear Bart, > > Your observations are very timely and to the point. Dale used the industry > arguments that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic > manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain medications; > grains will be designed to have particular nutritional compositions; etc. > > Does this approach strike anyone else as back-asswards? Is not the bounty of > nature enough to suit our needs? Have we not co-evolved with the plants and > animals that share this planet with us? Even the Avery-esque arguments about > increasing yields with intensive chemical production techniques fail when > you consider that hunger is such a political phenomenon, a result of > mis-distribution rather than low production. > > The blinders that result in tunnel vision are firmly in place in many > sectors of society, and agriculture is certainly no exception. Yes, friends, > we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow ourselves to see > them. How about using an ecological approach, working with the cycles of > nature, the complex dynamics of soil, and the miraculous natural > capabilities of plants to attempt to improve the nutritional value of our > food and feed by utilizing what is already there? Sir Albert Howard was > advocating such a holistic approach 50 years ago or more. > > The simple answer is that the profit potential from this approach is very > limited as it relies not on chemical or biotechnological inputs but on > intensive system management, therefore industry would not be very interested > in it. > > But what is really important: profit or authentically feeding and nourishing > the world? Learning how apathetic the majority of American consumers are > compared to their European counterparts is discouraging. Without external > pressure from consumers, industry is free to set the terms of discussion and > sell the illusion that maximizing control of natural processes is equivalent > to maximizing human benefit. I dispute this equation. > > >We are so slow to learn. > > >Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the > >degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years > >after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA > >alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which > >misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to > >disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the > >1930s. > > You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. > > Jane Sooby > > University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician > Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer > > High Plains Ag Lab > 3257 Rd. 109 > Sidney, NE 69162 > > 308-254-3918 > 308-254-2402 (FAX) > 308-254-0725 (HOME) > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 17:36:46 -0500 > From: "Michelle M. Miller" > Subject: health insurance > > Mark was looking for information on health insurance for farmers.... > National Farmers Union offers health insurance, usually through its state > affiliates. They have a website where you can access the state offices - I > think MA has one, Mark. > > The National Farmers Union is a progressive, grass roots family farm > organization concerned about all aspects of life on farms and all members > of farm families. There are sister NFUs in other countries, as well. Here > in the US, NFU started in Point, Texas in 1903. In the 40s / 50s it worked > with the Highlander Institute. The organization has benefited family > farmers since its beginning as a voice in the national and state policy > arenas, in helpping farmers start cooperatives, and keeping its members > and their children educated on farm issues. I went through the youth > program, where I learned how to start a coop, self-govern, and write my > legislators, and where I learned about concentration in agriculture and > corporate control of the food system. Lots of the organic growers in > Wisconsin purchase their insurance through Farmers Union. NFU also > participates in the Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture. > > The NFU site, which represents 300,000 US family farmers and ranchers in 24 > states, takes on farmers' issues and legislation from the average farmer's > point of view. The organization also works for rural community legislation. > You can find out about the organization, browse the newsletter, and have a > look at the issues it is currently > dealing with. Included is a state-by-state organization directory. > > The URL is http://www.nfu.org. > > Progressive Farmer listed this as a "best of the internet" site. > > Best - > > Michelle Miller > Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project > Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems > University of Wisconsin - Madison > > U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 > Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 > Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 > www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:42:08 -0700 > From: "Lon J. Rombough" > Subject: FW: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste > > - ---------- > From: "ARS News Service" > To: "ARS News List" > Subject: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste > Date: Wed, May 12, 1999, 6:58 AM > > STORY LEAD: > For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste > > - ----------- > ARS News Service > Agricultural Research Service, USDA > May 12, 1999 > Doris Stanley Lowe, (301) 893-6727, dstanley@asrr.arsusda.gov > - ----------- > > Changing the levels of a key hormone in tomatoes could lead to fruit that > tastes better and lasts longer, Agricultural Research Service scientists > report. Research shows such a tomato to be only a few years away. > > ARS plant physiologist Jerry D. Cohen and colleagues have genetically > altered the levels of auxin, a hormone which causes a tomato to grow and > ripen. It's the best known-and probably the most important-of the five major > plant hormones. > > Scientists have been studying auxin for more than 120 years. They've been > able to change auxin levels, but the changes were expressed throughout the > plant, not just in the fruit. The aim is to control the hormone production > so that it can be introduced into specific, targeted tissues--such as the > fruit-- without affecting the growth processes in other parts of the plant. > > At the ARS Horticultural Crops Quality Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., Cohen > and colleagues inserted a backwards copy of iaglu-a gene from corn-into a > tomato to turn this gene off. Because the gene was put in with a > fruit-specific promoter, only the tomato fruit was affected. The resultant > fruit ripened more slowly. This work is in collaboration with scientists in > the ARS Climate Stress Laboratory in Beltsville. ARS is the chief scientific > agency in the U.S. Department of Agriculture. > > Another plus for auxin: Decreasing the gene's level of expression throughout > receptor plants caused them to easily form large numbers of roots from > cuttings and spurred rapid root growth in germinating seedlings. This could > be significant for plants that are difficult to root from cuttings and could > increase the survival rate of seeds planted in dry soils. > > Cohen expects this research to produce a store-bought tomato with > vine-ripened taste in about 3 years. > > ---------- > Scientific contact: Jerry D. Cohen, ARS Horticultural Crops Quality > Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (703) 306-1442, fax (703) 306-0355, > jdcohen@NSF.gov (on detail to the National Science Foundation until October > 1999). > - ---------- > This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information > distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the > latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. > * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. > * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD > 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:52:00 +0100 > From: "Bluestem Associates" > Subject: Credit where credit is due department ... > > On Wed, 12 May 1999 08:57:59 -0600, Jane Sooby wrote: > > >>Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the > >>degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years > >>after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA > >>alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which > >>misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to > >>disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the > >>1930s. > > > >You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. > > For those not familiar with it, this "knowledge" is the result of work > by David Pimentel, entomologist at Cornell. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:30:54 -0700 > From: Charles Benbrook > Subject: Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE > > The May 7, 1999 Science has a critical article on the genetics of Bt > resistance in European corn borer (F. Huang, L.L. Buschman, Higgins, > McGaughey, "Inheritance of Resistance to Bt Toxin (Dipel ES) in the ECB," > page 965-967). > > The new finding is that one or a few genes account for resistance > observed in the lab, and that the gene is "incompletely dominant autosomal." > Heretofore, most people thought the gene was recessive; the high > dose/refugia resistance management strategy depends upon this gene being > recessive. The author's state that if their finding holds, there will be > need to rethink ECB resistance management plans. > > BTW, this is a good example of the scientific surprises that can be > expected as we move into the ag biotech era. This is part because genetic > changes unleashed across millions of acres (or in a backyard) can cause so > many horrendously complex secondary and tertiary responses in ecosystems, > and secondarily because the science has not been done -- Ann Clark's point > that there has been a systematic effort to NOT look under certain rocks. > Wouldn't one think that the genetics of resistance in the ECB would be a > subject of serious analysis well before 20 million acres are being planted > in the U.S. corn belt. But clearly it was not; it is my sense (someone > correct me if I am wrong) that the work these scientists did could have been > done before had the funding and commitment been present to look under that > rock. > > For the non-geneticists among us, would someone please post a > lay-person's explanation of what an "incompletely dominant autosomal gene" > is; along with an explanation of why this matters so much in designing a > resistance management strategy. If someone would be willing to talk me > through it, I'll write it up for the list. > > Another relatively urgent request -- I am working on an assessment > of the ECB Bt-corn resistance management plan that is under EPA review now. > I, and others, need very quick help on a key issue. What insects spend some > time in corn fields, and might develop resistance to Bt, that in other > life-stages spend time in fruit and vegetable crops where growers are now > largely reliant on foliar Bts for Lepidopteran control? If you know of > people who have thought about this and could help create a list, and provide > some sense of the potential for insect migration carrying resistance genes > into other regions, please be in touch. I am willing to provide a modest > level of $$ for anyone that can turn something out quickly (i.e. about 2 > weeks). I will also eventually share what we learn with the list. So you > bug-flow experts out there, please be in touch. > > chuck > > Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) > Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) > 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] > Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:56:15 -0400 > From: Bob MacGregor > Subject: Re: health insurance > > Insurers are usually a pretty hard-nose, practical bunch who stick to what > their actuarial tables tell them. I was idly wondering whether organic > farmers might get a lower insurance rate (for health or life insurance) than > conventional, chemical farmers. If the actuarial tables suggest that the > risk of health affects is less for organic farmers, lower rates would > certainly be justified. On the other hand, maybe the risk of injury or > death from machinery use is so overwhelming (relatively speaking) that it > masks any effect of chemical exposure. Does anyone on the list know? > BOB > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:59:32 -0400 > From: Susan Smalley > Subject: Re: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK > > Paul, > > Your inquiry provides a wonderful opportunity to share a new publication > with you and the SANET world -- The Many Faces of Community Supported > Agriculture (CSA): A Guide to Community Supported Agriculture in Indiana, > Michigan, & Ohio. The guide profiles CSA farms, their philosophy and > activitey within all three states. "Many Faces" is the result of a > year-long collaborative effort among the Michigan Organic Food and Farm > Alliance (MOFFA), the Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association (OEFFA), > and Sustainable Earth, Inc., and was supported by a Professional > Development Program grant from the North Central Region Sustainable > Agriculture Research and Extension program (NCR SARE). > > Dr. Laura Delind, anthropologist and CSA member, coordinated the project > and edited the 107-page book. Each of the 35 CSA's it profiles is unique, > and reading about them is a great way to get "the feel" of CSA life and > meet the people who are involved. They share both the opportunities and > the challenges they have experienced. > > Copies of the book have been sent to county Extension offices in Michigan, > Ohio and Indiana. Additional copies are available for $10/copy including > shipping and handling, from MOFFA, PO Box 530, Hartland, MI 48353, > 810-632-7952; OEFFA, PO Box 82234, Columbus, OH 43202, 614-267-3663; > Sustainable Earth, Inc., 100 Georgeton Ct., West Lafayette, IN 47906, > 765-463-9366. You may also contact Dr. DeLind directly at > delind@pilot.msu.edu or 517-355-7490. > > Susan B. Smalley > Extension Specialist > Sustainable Food & Farming Systems smalley@msue.msu.edu > Michigan State University 517-432-0049 Voice > Department of Crop & Soil Sciences 517-353-3834 Fax > 270 Plant & Soil Science Building > East Lansing, MI 48824-1325 > > >02:37 PM 5/12/99 +0000, Paul Cook (COUNTRYSIDE) wrote: > >Dear All, > > > >I am currently conducting research into the CSA experience in the US, with > a > >view to looking at whether the principle would translate to the UK farming > >system. > > >Do you know of any other reports/publications that provide an overview of > the > >CSA experience in the US so far?. Highlights, problems, legalities etc. > > > >PAUL COOK > >Farming & Forestry Branch > >Countryside Agency > >John Dower House > >Crescent Place > >Cheltenham > >Gloucestershire > >GL50 3RA > >England > >UK > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:05:32 -0400 > From: Andy Clark > Subject: New book on community-supported agriculture (CSA) > > Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:51:30 -0500 > To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu > From: Helen Husher > Subject: new book on community-supported agriculture > > Sharing the Harvest: > A Guide to Community-Supported Agriculture > > A new guide to community-supported agriculture is now available, written > in part by Robyn Van En, who founded Induan Line Farm, the first > community-supported farm in The United States, and in part by Elizabeth > Henderson, co-author of The Real Dirt and a leader in > community-supported agriculture, or CSA, for more than a decade. > > Sharing the Harvest questions what it means to have > grapes from Chile, apples from New Zealand, and tomatoes from Holland > in U.S. grocery stores. Fresh food can be surprisingly difficult to > find in our culture of abundance, and the search for it is close to the > heart of the CSA movement. CSA allows consumers to buy shares in a > farm's produce before it is planted, thus giving the farmer cash flow > when cash is needed; the CSA model also allows farmers to work directly > with consumers, allowing more of the consumer food dollar to stay on > the local farm. > > Sharing the Harvest offers case histories, pointers, > models, and strategies for starting and running a CSA. The risks and > satisfactions of production, labor, and management vary greatly from > farm to farm, and the book captures the wide range of choices available > to people interested in starting a CSA operation. With charts, photos, > and a resource section, Sharing the Harvest is for > anyone interested in alternative farming. The book, which is the > product of a partnership with Northeast SARE and Chelsea Green > Publishing, can be ordered from Chelsea Green at 800/639-4099. > > ************************************* > > Helen Husher > > Writer/Editor > Northeast Region Sustainable Agriculture > Research and Education (SARE) Program > Hills Building -- Carrigan Drive > University of Vermont > Burlington, VT 05405-0082 > > Phone: 802-656-0554 > Fax: 802-656-4656 > > ************************************** > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:58:58 -0600 > From: "Douglas M. Hinds" > Subject: Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy > > I haven't been giving full attention to this thread. The "value added" > logic of those > who support / defend the use of GMO's in daily life (rather to correct > serious > pathologies in limited situations) ignores the counter-evolutionary and > invasive > implications of the **methodology** (emphasis intended) and the discrepancy > between > intrinsic and implied ("added") value. The problem is intensified as GMO's > themselves > reproduce genetically, what didn't begin genetically (at least in that > species). > > The crux of the issue is that of accountability, risk calculation and the > where the burden > of evidence should lie. With DDT and cigarettes, the promoters also denied > any negative > results and many deaths occurred as a result, before the record was set > straight. > The GMO issue is both more complex and more insidious. > > No agreement will be reached as the motivation behind the promoting group is > clearly > mercenary, despite the veil of "value added". The only solution will be > legislative and > since legislators themselves are generated by (and therefore subject to) > marketing > and the public's response, and therefore: Someone's ass WILL have to get > kicked, > and the sooner the better. > > I will not respond to further comments on this thread (for now). > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 12/05/99 at 8:57 AM Jane Sooby wrote: > > >Dear Bart, > > > >Your observations are very timely and to the point. Dale used the industry > >arguments that agricultural products may be "improved" by genetic > >manipulation so that fruits may be designed to carry certain medications; > >grains will be designed to have particular nutritional compositions; etc. > > > >Does this approach strike anyone else as back-asswards? Is not the bounty > of > >nature enough to suit our needs? Have we not co-evolved with the plants and > >animals that share this planet with us? Even the Avery-esque arguments > about > >increasing yields with intensive chemical production techniques fail when > >you consider that hunger is such a political phenomenon, a result of > >mis-distribution rather than low production. > > > >The blinders that result in tunnel vision are firmly in place in many > >sectors of society, and agriculture is certainly no exception. Yes, > friends, > >we have a *universe* of alternatives if only we would allow ourselves to > see > >them. How about using an ecological approach, working with the cycles of > >nature, the complex dynamics of soil, and the miraculous natural > >capabilities of plants to attempt to improve the nutritional value of our > >food and feed by utilizing what is already there? Sir Albert Howard was > >advocating such a holistic approach 50 years ago or more. > > > >The simple answer is that the profit potential from this approach is very > >limited as it relies not on chemical or biotechnological inputs but on > >intensive system management, therefore industry would not be very > interested > >in it. > > > >But what is really important: profit or authentically feeding and > nourishing > >the world? Learning how apathetic the majority of American consumers are > >compared to their European counterparts is discouraging. Without external > >pressure from consumers, industry is free to set the terms of discussion > and > >sell the illusion that maximizing control of natural processes is > equivalent > >to maximizing human benefit. I dispute this equation. > > > >>We are so slow to learn. > > > >>Thirteen years later, Rachel Carson had quite cogently outlined the > >>degree to which Pickett had been correct. Nevertheless, almost 40 years > >>after Carson's work the devastation continues, as we apply (in the USA > >>alone) nearly 500 million kg of active material, over 99% of which > >>misses the target organism, while overall percentage losses of crop to > >>disease, insects, and weeds is actually *higher* that it was in the > >>1930s. > > > >You are right on, Bart. Thanks for sharing the fruits of your knowledge. > > > >Jane Sooby > > > >University of Nebraska-Lincoln alternative crops research technician > >Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society western organizer > > > >High Plains Ag Lab > >3257 Rd. 109 > >Sidney, NE 69162 > > > >308-254-3918 > >308-254-2402 (FAX) > >308-254-0725 (HOME) > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 > ******************************* > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 03:15:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA04710 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 03:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA11952 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 02:33:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.compy-net.com (host.dex-net.com [194.184.44.118]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA11928 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 02:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qualsiasi [195.223.189.97] by mail2.compy-net.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4B215ED0124; Sat, 15 May 1999 08:31:14 +03d0 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990515075355.007b8320@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Sender: XD026Y@mail2.compy-net.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 07:53:55 +0200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: MV Subject: Re: GMO and cars In-Reply-To: <199905142037340810.0279FDCE@acnet.net> References: <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 823 >Create a GE rice for high productivity, diseases resistant, drought >>tollerant, no terminator, and give it away for free. And let the >>against-GMO people explain why not to use it in the Third World. >> >>Create a GE peach or a GE apple variety diseases and insects resistant, >>constantly bearing, harvest in one time, slow ripening, high shelf-life, >>full bright red; doing so you cut the production costs to one half, sell >>the fruit cheaper than the normal fruits. And explain the consumer why they >>cost less... Just to see what happens. > >I have a word for this: "Fantasy" (If it were true, if it were the whole story, >the word would be "Fantastic"). About the "Fantastic": in rice the Xa21 gene confer disease resistance and it is already here; I don't have time to search in databases, but few DNA sequences related to drought resistance should be already published; in my knowledge we lack only the gene that gives the capability to develop every flower in a seed. In apple the genes for scab, mildew, aphids resistance are known, the sequences still lacking; constantly bearing can be achieved by a parthenocarpic gene that makes the fruit develop in any case (sequence available); harvest, ripening and shelf-life can be modified by genes that reduce ethylene production (already done in tomato, in apple and peach sequences available); the gene for the full bright red colour is under studying. However .... (there will be no shortage of >responses explaining to Maurizio - who has contributed some good posts >in the past - the difference between living, sexually derived organisms and >cars). I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean with "shortage of responses" (it's my bad English). Do you mean that you are not going to explain me the difference in a short reply? It's fine, I think I know already. Thank you for your reply. Maurizio To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 03:15:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA04714 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 03:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA11950 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 02:33:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.compy-net.com (host.dex-net.com [194.184.44.118]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA11927 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 02:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qualsiasi [195.223.189.97] by mail2.compy-net.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A4B415ED0124; Sat, 15 May 1999 08:31:16 +03d0 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990515080657.007efae0@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Sender: XD026Y@mail2.compy-net.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:06:57 +0200 To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" From: MV Subject: Re: GMO and cars Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <000601be9e5f$c0f1b3e0$1a5f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 824 At 18.16 14/05/99 -0500, you wrote: >I understand what you are saying, and it kind of adds to a question that >I've had about GMO's. It seems that the US is usually one of the last >countries to approve new drugs, yet here we are leading the forefront with >GMO's. The countries that are quicker to legalize drugs (pharmaceuticals, >not the illegal variety) seem to be the ones resisting GMO's and other >agricultural technology that the US wants us all to embrace. Why is this? >Someone suggested to me that perhaps it's because other countries don't have >the economical investment in the ag. industry that the US does. It scares >me to think that ag. companies have more "pull" than the FDA does. Why >hasn't the USDA stepped in to demand more legitimate research on ag. >"technology"? I don't think it's a matter of economical investment, since also pharmaceuticals industry... It a matter of standards for legitimation. We create new varieties by conventional breeding continously, and they are tested for safety before releasing. Safety normally means not dangerous to human (overall lacking known toxins). The GMOs are tested in same way, so they resulted safe. Maurizio To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 08:29:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA06406 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 08:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA10556 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 07:46:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10517 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 07:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 15 May 1999 06:45:26 -0500 Message-ID: <199905150644080340.04A56571@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990515075355.007b8320@mail2.compy-net.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> <3.0.6.32.19990515075355.007b8320@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 06:44:08 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "MV" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: GMO and cars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id HAA10518 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 825 Hi Maurizio, >I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean with "shortage of >responses" (it's my bad English). Do you mean that you are not going to >explain me the difference in a short reply? It's fine, I think I know already. > >Thank you for your reply. The problem is that I have to do three events in three states in three days and the first one is later today, in another state. I'm driving there and I'm not even packed. These are events that I myself had set up and I am the sole exponente (speaker). I promise to do it later (unless some one else does the job first). Basically, genes that were developed over millenniums in one evolutionary line can not necessarily be snipped out and pasted in another organism with different origins and (perhaps), destiny. This issue is far more complex than the variables the you are looking at and raises questions of integrity - biological and ecological integrity that simply have never been dealt with since life began on this planet. No one has the answers at this point and much more caution is called for than that which has been mandated, as yet. The way you are postulating the issue, your conclusions are foregone, self justified. But there are aspects to the issue you are ignoring and so many unknowns that any wholesale presumption is simply uncalled for at this time. That's all I can do for now. Perhaps someone else can amplify on this line of reasoning. Gotta get ready to leave. Si no te lo explican suficientemente bien aqui mismo, vuelvo a tocar el tema enseguida. Pero por el momento me retiro, debido a compromisos serios contraidos con anterioridad. (Disculpe). Luego hablamos de nuevo de esto. DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 15/05/99 at 7:53 AM MV wrote: >>Create a GE rice for high productivity, diseases resistant, drought >>>tollerant, no terminator, and give it away for free. And let the >>>against-GMO people explain why not to use it in the Third World. >>> >>>Create a GE peach or a GE apple variety diseases and insects resistant, >>>constantly bearing, harvest in one time, slow ripening, high shelf-life, >>>full bright red; doing so you cut the production costs to one half, sell >>>the fruit cheaper than the normal fruits. And explain the consumer why they >>>cost less... Just to see what happens. >> >>I have a word for this: "Fantasy" (If it were true, if it were the whole >>story, the word would be "Fantastic"). > >About the "Fantastic": >in rice the Xa21 gene confer disease resistance and it is already here; I >don't have time to search in databases, but few DNA sequences related to >drought resistance should be already published; in my knowledge we lack >only the gene that gives the capability to develop every flower in a seed. > >In apple the genes for scab, mildew, aphids resistance are known, the >sequences still lacking; constantly bearing can be achieved by a >parthenocarpic gene that makes the fruit develop in any case (sequence >available); harvest, ripening and shelf-life can be modified by genes that >reduce ethylene production (already done in tomato, in apple and peach >sequences available); the gene for the full bright red colour is under >studying. > > > However .... (there will be no shortage of >>responses explaining to Maurizio - who has contributed some good posts >>in the past - the difference between living, sexually derived organisms and >>cars). > >I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean with "shortage of >responses" (it's my bad English). Do you mean that you are not going to >explain me the difference in a short reply? It's fine, I think I know already. > >Thank you for your reply. > >Maurizio Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 11:32:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08102 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21075 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 10:35:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21066 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 10:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rddrpx07-port-69.agt.net ([161.184.17.230]:1656 "EHLO hovenfarms.com") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with ESMTP id <120552-6033>; Sat, 15 May 1999 08:34:38 -0600 Message-ID: <373D85A8.7BE3CAA3@hovenfarms.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 08:33:12 -0600 From: Peter Hoven Reply-To: peter@hovenfarms.com Organization: Hoven Farms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET , graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz Subject: Re: Genetic modification References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 826 I would encourage everyone to go read Ann's paper's at her web site. They are definitely thought provoking. I am just finishing a book called Farmageddon : Food and the Culture of Biotechnology by Brewster Kneen. It has just been released and the most disturbing part of the book is the appalling lack of any meaningful testing of these products before being released into the environment. And before somebody disagrees with that statement, what kind of meaningful long-term effects can be studied when new varieties are released so shortly after being "invented." One of the most interesting points Kneen makes is if the products are "substantially equivalent" (a term used in Canada to speed regulatory approval) to existing varieties why should a patent be approved. Companies should not have it both ways. "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" wrote: > Pete: you asked - > > > Does this mean we will have to start labelling Brangus cattle, Quarter > > horses and other crossbred animals? > > > > These animals have been genetically modified through selection and > > crossbreeding to produce superior animals. > > > > What about grasses and clovers that have been selected for resistance to > > pests, drought? > > > > Reasonable questions. One of the issues I've been exploring lately > is the degree to which GE is fundamentally different from plant > breeding, and hence, engenders fundamentally different ecological and > food safety risks. I assume the same would apply to animals. > > As I state in a recent talk in Ottawa dealing specifically with risk > assessment, conventional breeding is just reshuffling alleles - > literally. Conventional breeding is just natural selection with a > human face on it. No alien genes are brought in from across species > or closely related species barriers, and the physical placement of a > given set of alleles on a chromosome doesn't change. what changes is > BB vs. Bb vs. bb combinations, or variations thereof. > > Conversely, GE goes to heroic extremes to violate both species and > chromosome integrity and introduce novel genes. The two methods > currently used in GE to insert genes - ballistic and vectors, as > Agrobacterium tumefaciens - are both completely random events in > terms of a) on which chromosome, and b) where on the chromosome, the > new gene(s) lands. The point of insertion is unpredictable and > unrepeatable - a completely random choice. > > This is not an esoteric point. Placement is everything. The gene > itself is arguably less important than the placement, because order > (among and within chromosomes) influences inter-gene interactions. > Thus, a given gene produces different gene products (both itself and > as it influences other genes) when inserted at point X vs. point Y. > Specifically because of these inter-gene effects, a given gene > insertion can cause multiple traits to be expressed - not just the > one you intend - and expression is not necessarily predictable > particularly with the very short testing interval commonly used in > commercial GE. Access-to-Information protocols have revealed recent > Canadian GE crop registrations based on 1-2 years of field testing at > a few sites. And what is authorized, interestingly enough, is not > just a single transgenic line, but a) the mean of several lines, and > b) anything that might be bred from the registered lines. > > As a example, inserting the gene for herbicide-resistance > transgenically (vs. a natural mutation) changed a selfing weed > species Arabadopsis thaliana into a 10% outcrossing species. > Outcrossing - apart from enhancing the risk of weediness - has > nothing to do with herbicide resistance. It is a secondary, > unintended trait. And it was caused specifically by placement of the > novel gene within the chromosome because a) when it happened > naturally, outcrossing was not affected, and b) the % outcrossing > varied among transgenic lines given the same herbicide resistant > gene. Numerous other examples exist - this is not unique. > > So, to get to your point, the potential for unintended side effects > causing, for example, allergenic gene products or other effects such > as immune system dysfunction (each of these has been documented), is > much greater in a GE product than conventional plant (or animal) > breeding. And if you bring in G x E effects, or the interactions of > the new genetic construct with the environment in which it is grown, > the risk increases again. > > These are some of the reasons for separately labelling GE products as > distinct from conventionally bred products. Others are discussed > more fully in my talks, so I would refer you to my homepage and end > this overlong, grazing-unrelated message. Ann > > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca > Dr. E. Ann Clark > Associate Professor > Crop Science > University of Guelph > Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 > Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 > FAX: 519 763-8933 > http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm -- Peter Hoven peter@hovenfarms.com (403)746-3484 Eckville, Alberta, Canada Hoven Farms sponsors two internet mailing lists. Send me an email for directions on how to connect with other organic producers. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 12:11:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08428 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:11:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA14016 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rfd1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.175.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13963 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lessing.oit.umass.edu by rfd1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29083) with ESMTP id <0FBS00HHX5479T@rfd1.oit.umass.edu> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trf@localhost) by lessing.oit.umass.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA05544 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 11:16:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Fetter Subject: question: sodium nitrate X-Sender: trf@lessing.oit.umass.edu To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: lessing.oit.umass.edu: trf owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 827 Hi, I need some info on sodium nitrate (aka Chilean nitrate). I notice it's allowed by some organic certification programs and prohibited by others. When certifiers prohibit it, they cite that it has no long-term positive effects on soil building (unlike some other fertilizers) and has high sodium content, which is generally bad. Why, then, is it allowed in some organic programs? What are the particular advantages sodium nitrate offers? Thanks! Rob ***************** T. Robert Fetter Research Assistant Dept. of Resource Economics Draper Hall University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 phone 413-545-5716 fax 413-545-5853 trf@student.umass.edu Check out the Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog at http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 13:07:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08893 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 13:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21894 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:20:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21876 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 12:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 15 May 1999 11:19:12 -0500 Message-ID: <199905151117570100.05A01DFD@acnet.net> References: <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> <3.0.6.32.19990515075355.007b8320@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 06:44:08 -0600 From: "Douglas M.Hinds" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, XD026Y@mail2.compy-net.com Subject: Re: GMO and cars [revised / annotated - 3rd & 4th lines, 2nd paragraph of answer] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA21885 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 828 (Redirected by "Douglas M. Hinds" ) Hi Maurizio, >I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean with "shortage of >responses" (it's my bad English). Do you mean that you are not going to >explain me the difference in a short reply? It's fine, I think I know already. > >Thank you for your reply. The problem is that I have to do three events in three states in three days and the first one is later today, in another state. I'm driving there and I'm not even packed. These are events that I myself had set up and I am the sole speaker (exponente). I promise to do it later (unless some one else does the job first). Basically, genes that were developed over millenniums in one evolutionary line can not necessarily be snipped out and pasted in another organism with different origins and (perhaps) destiny, [without unforeseen, far reaching and perhaps grave repercussions]. This issue is far more complex than the variables the you are looking at and raises questions of integrity - biological and ecological integrity that simply have never been dealt with since life began on this planet. No one has the answers at this point and much more caution is called for than that which has been mandated, as yet. The way you are postulating the issue, your conclusions are foregone, self justified. But there are aspects to the issue you are ignoring and so many unknowns that any wholesale presumption is simply uncalled for at this time. That's all I can do for now. Perhaps someone else can amplify on this line of reasoning. Gotta get ready to leave. Si no te lo explican suficientemente bien aqui mismo, vuelvo a tocar el tema enseguida. Pero por el momento me retiro, debido a compromisos serios contraidos con anterioridad. (Disculpe). Luego hablamos de nuevo de esto. O si quiere, enviame algo de manera directa. (No es un asunto que alguien va a resolver aqui en esta lista - es una bronca que a penas empieza formarse). DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 15/05/99 at 7:53 AM MV wrote: >>Create a GE rice for high productivity, diseases resistant, drought >>>tollerant, no terminator, and give it away for free. And let the >>>against-GMO people explain why not to use it in the Third World. >>> >>>Create a GE peach or a GE apple variety diseases and insects resistant, >>>constantly bearing, harvest in one time, slow ripening, high shelf-life, >>>full bright red; doing so you cut the production costs to one half, sell >>>the fruit cheaper than the normal fruits. And explain the consumer why they >>>cost less... Just to see what happens. >> >>I have a word for this: "Fantasy" (If it were true, if it were the whole >>story, the word would be "Fantastic"). > >About the "Fantastic": >in rice the Xa21 gene confer disease resistance and it is already here; I >don't have time to search in databases, but few DNA sequences related to >drought resistance should be already published; in my knowledge we lack >only the gene that gives the capability to develop every flower in a seed. > >In apple the genes for scab, mildew, aphids resistance are known, the >sequences still lacking; constantly bearing can be achieved by a >parthenocarpic gene that makes the fruit develop in any case (sequence >available); harvest, ripening and shelf-life can be modified by genes that >reduce ethylene production (already done in tomato, in apple and peach >sequences available); the gene for the full bright red colour is under >studying. > > > However .... (there will be no shortage of >>responses explaining to Maurizio - who has contributed some good posts >>in the past - the difference between living, sexually derived organisms and >>cars). > >I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean with "shortage of >responses" (it's my bad English). Do you mean that you are not going to >explain me the difference in a short reply? It's fine, I think I know already. > >Thank you for your reply. > >Maurizio Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 17:45:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11431 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 17:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA02985 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:52:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA02899 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sat, 15 May 1999 16:56:34 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Conflicting views Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 16:56:33 -0400 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 829 Forwarded: message was too long--it included the full digest. Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 14:19:05 +0000 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, hreetz@ppi-far.org From: "Laura K. Paine" Subject: Conflicting views In-Reply-To: <373BE879.643583ED@earthlink.net> References: <002a01be9cfb$2f2aa1c0$cba7fea9@ibm770> Hello Dr. Reetz and everyone, I hope, Dr. Reetz, that you choose not to sign off the list. It wouldn't be much of a discussion if we didn't represent differing points of view with our comments. Having said that, I'd like to take issue with your comments about Dennis Avery's vision of agriculture. The problem that I see with Avery's model is that it is likely to be environmentally harmful if its not done 'right'. If it is applied in particular places, and in particular ways, perhaps there will be no problems. Avery's position is that we should concentrate production on the best, most fertile land so that we can preserve the marginal land for wildlife and natural areas, but how does he propose to enforce this? How can we ensure that it will only be applied in the right places? Is he willing to restrict or even prohibit farmers right to farm their land? How will we stop cattle ranchers in Brazil from converting rain forest to pasture? His vision requires regulation of land use on a massive scale and I'm surprised that someone like Avery would even suggest it. An alternative goal is to work toward reintegrating agriculture--and human beings, for that matter--into ecosystems. This is the underlying principal behind the Agricultural Ecosystems Research Project, for which I was coordinator from 1992 until two months ago. The goals of the project are to develop and test cropping systems that are in harmony with the ecosystem, that can allow humans to crop the land and provide habitat for wildlife in the same acre. It is a very pragmatic approach to the problem of declining wild areas, and admittedly cannot alone address all the issues involved in protecting the environment. One good example, which is what I worked on the most while I was there, is rotational grazing or grass farming. Grass farms are capable of producing as much milk per acre as conventional farms, while providing improved habitat for grassland wildlife, such as meadowlarks and bobolinks (some of the most rapidly declining species in North America). It is not a perfect solution: habitat quality is better than the corn and alfalfa fields of conventional dairies, but disturbance by grazing cattle reduces nesting success. The overall result is positive. It's not a perfect approach by any means, but it is one that is compatible with the environment and its one that allows people to remain part of a functioning ecosystem. I'm sure some will say that there's no way that such cropping systems can produce as much as the high-input systems that Avery is promoting, but I think we should give them a chance. If we had invested as much in sustainable agriculture as Monsanto has in biotechnology, perhaps we'd be farther along in this process. Perhaps the real answer is that we need both. Well, those are my thoughts for what they're worth! Kindest regards, Laura > >Harold Reetz wrote: > >> After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I find it >> difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" that are included >> in this "list" without responding. It appears that this is really a forum >> for the anti-science, anti-industry people to post their ideas and their >> attacks on science and industry. Comments such as the importance of >> "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have made >> in agriculture has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be a >> general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about GMOs and >> other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. >> >> I had hoped this was a forum for a more balanced discussion and assessment >> of facts. I guess that is asking too much. But I am concerned about the >> comments that the new technologies in agriculture are creating hazards and >> quality problems when there is no evidence to support such claims. >> Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember in the >> "good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not nearly so much a >> result of technology as it is our nations desire to have cheap, abundant and >> healthy food. We use technology to accomplish that better than any other >> nation in the world. Our success makes it possible for 98% of our >> population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food. Were it not for >> the science and technology and the large-scale intensive production systems >> we have implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced >> into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who do grow >> it. >> >> I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and disease >> problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. Doing it with GMOs, with >> cultural practices, and overall systems management, we have a great story to >> tell. There is apparently a certain population who feel obliged to attack >> progress. They fought pesticides and when we replaced pesticide use with >> GMOs, many of the same people jumped from the anti-pesticide bandwagon to >> the anti-GMO bandwagon. >> >> Another comment in this thread points out that many of the world's food >> problems are political, rather than production problems. That is true. And >> the kind of discussions this thread is fostering help to support those >> political problems. >> >> There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. Dennis >> has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of technology, much >> more of the world's natural forest ecosystems would be turned into food >> production. Our high yield management systems in the US can do much more to >> help save the rain forests and deserts and to protect fragile ecosystems >> than any other option we have before us. Most of our food crops could not >> survive in nature. Most of our agriculture could not survive without >> continuous infusion of technology. It is our success with technology that >> gives us the abundance and efficiency that allows more people to NOT be >> involved in food production. I doubt that you will find a large percentage >> of the 98% non-producers who would trade their life styles with going back >> to producing their own food. >> >> Maybe instead of complaining about the direction of this list, I should just >> remove my name from it. For now, thanks for letting me vent my concerns. >> >> Harold Reetz >> >> Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. >> Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute >> Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research >> 111 East Washington Street >> Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 >> >> Phone: 217-762-2074 >> FAX: 217-762-8655 >> e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org >> PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org >> InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 >> Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >> [mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 12:03 PM >> To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >> Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 >> >> sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, May 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1012 >> >> In this issue: >> >> RE: information and extension's role >> Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK >> Spain's Largest Retailer Blocks Biotech Foods >> Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy >> health insurance >> FW: For Real: A Store-Bought Tomato with Vine-Ripened Taste >> Credit where credit is due department ... >> Bt Resistance: HELP PLEASE >> Re: health insurance >> Re: Research into Community Supported Agriculture in the UK >> New book on community-supported agriculture (CSA) >> Re: information, extension, biotech, philosophy >> >> See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Laura Paine Crops and Soils Agent Columbia County Agriculture Center 120 West Conant Street PO Box 567 Portage, WI 53901-0567 608/742-9680 FAX: 608/742-9862 laura.paine@ces.uwex.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 19:25:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA12753 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 19:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA10683 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 18:44:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.compy-net.com (host.dex-net.com [194.184.44.118]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA10240 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 18:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qualsiasi [195.223.189.3] by mail2.compy-net.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A81DF5503E6; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:41:33 +03d0 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990516002744.0079c100@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Sender: XD026Y@mail2.compy-net.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 00:27:44 +0200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: MV Subject: Re: Genetic modification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 830 > As a example, inserting the gene for herbicide-resistance > transgenically (vs. a natural mutation) changed a selfing weed > species Arabadopsis thaliana into a 10% outcrossing species. > Outcrossing - apart from enhancing the risk of weediness - has > nothing to do with herbicide resistance. It is a secondary, > unintended trait. And it was caused specifically by placement of the > novel gene within the chromosome because a) when it happened > naturally, outcrossing was not affected, and b) the % outcrossing > varied among transgenic lines given the same herbicide resistant > gene. Numerous other examples exist - this is not unique. This is one good example of the pseudo-science. How much is the outcrossing rate in wild Arabidopsis? (in other word, how much is the *control*?, or better, how much it was in that particular experiment?) This data is not given, then it is concluded that 10% is caused by GE. If normal outcrossing rate is 50%, GE are bad because reduced the rate ;-) If normal outcrossing rate is 0%, GE are bad because enhanced the rate If normal outcrossing rate is not tested or given, GE are bad because outcrossing was (searched and) found in GE. It is called CONTROL, it is what should *normally* happen, and it is necessary. By the way, I also know other examples like this, of course without the control. Maurizio Ventura "Be part of the solution, not the problem." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 21:45:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14266 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA02723 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:03:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA02708 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d15-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.142] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA04137 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:02:59 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: GMO and cars and the state of biological science Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:15:35 +1000 Message-ID: <000a01be9f39$99a78f00$8e79a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199905151117570100.05A01DFD@acnet.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 831 Carl Lindgren, "The Cold War in Biology", Ann Arbor 1966 - not an easy book to find - presents a useful history of the evolution of gene theory, illustrating his proposition that the problem with science is that, too often, in the course of going though the cycle from research to theory to teaching to new researchers' work, there is a tragic slip from theory to 'fact' to 'dogma' which then becomes the basis of research which is thus fundamentally flawed by false assumptions. The underlying confidence in gene shearing is based on a reductionist notion that nature can be understood as a simple sum of some of its parts and also assumptions about the singular importance of genes in inheritance. Reductionist research goes through fads and phases of power in pursuing fundamental causes. Genetics is just the latest fad focus. Richard Lewontin in his Canadian Broadcasting Corporation Massey Lectures 1991 criticised [chapter 3] the ideological prejudice in modern biology particularly as relates to causes, or rather the tendency to seek THE cause of an effect. This he says is "nowhere more evident than in our theories of health and disease". In discussing pursuit of the 'cause' of cancer he runs through the history of cancer research, pursuing a viral cause, an environmental cause and more recently in the human genome project, of which he is sharply critical. He asks (or, in 1991 asked, but the question remains valid): "Why, then, do so many powerful, famous, successful, and extremely intelligent scientists want to sequence the human genome? The answer is in part, that they are so completely devoted to the ideology of simple unitary causes that they believe in the efficacy of the research and do not ask themselves more complicated questions. But in part, the answer is a rather crass one. The participation in and the control of a multibillion dollar, 30- or 50-year research project that will involve the everyday work of thousands of technicians and lower-level scientists is an extraordinarily appealing prospect for an ambitious biologist..." R.C. Lewontin, The Doctrine of DNA, Penguin Books 1993 p. 51. The need to look at whole systems rather than fragments was expressed perhaps most elegantly by the great physiologist Albert Szent-Gyorgyi: "1+1>2" Or, at more length: "One particle, plus one particle, put together at random, are two particles, 1+1=2; the system is additive. But if two particles are put together in a meaningful way then something new is born which is more than their sum: 1+1>2. This is the most basic equation of biology. It can also be called organisation." Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, Bioelectronics: A Study in Cellular Regulations, Defense, and Cancer, Academic Press New York, 1968, p 4. While individual genetic research projects into particular gene functions may inspire confidence that individual genes may trigger or control particular actions or events, the generality of their function cannot be so readily understood, any more than there is general understanding of the role or history or sensitivity or reactivity of the host of retroviruses in genetic material. There is also a blithe disregard of functions of the cytosol and organelles and their roles in cellular memory and intelligence. It is the greatest of simplifications in 'science' to observe an action somewhere and be blinded to reality that other things not understood may have roles of equal significance. If you wonder about the term 'cell intelligence' see: http://www.basic.nwu.edu/g-buehler/summary.htm I was delighted to find that a former Senator, former Australian Federal Health Minister, now Head of the School of Community Medicine at the University of New South Wales, in Sydney, had written this about medicine, which applies as much to biology: If we look back 150 years, to the paradigms and practices of that time, we are likely to smile indulgently. Many of us can see clearly that the belief systems then operating were inadequate to explain events, and have been overtaken. But too many of us lack a capacity to learn from that observation about our current paradigms. If we go forward 150 years in our imagination and then look back it seems likely that practitioners of that day will smile again at our belief systems. There is nothing wrong with this - we are using the best paradigms we have. They are not perfect and they will be overtaken. We need to be relaxed and ready - and not be prisoners of the paradigms of today. Peter Baume "The Tasks of Medicine: An Ideology of Care" Sydney 1998 This is NOT in my view a statement that we must yield to the advance of technology, but that me must recognise that contemporary advances are inherently flawed and need to be addressed with wisdom, rather than blind enthusiasm. There is no reason for organic agriculture to be thought backward. It should, if not always is, respectful of nature as a system rather than just a clutter of manipulable bits and pieces. Wholesale rejection of technology may be backward; wholesale enthusiasm for inherently simplistic and mechanistic technology is naive and foolish in the extreme. my thoughts Dennis Argall To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 22:11:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA14447 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:11:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21941 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:33:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21837 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA22661 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:35:50 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:30:08 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.140] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1401333c ; Sat, 15 May 1999 20:29:50 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990515203053.0083b500@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:30:53 -0500 To: From: Mike Miller Subject: Re: Genetic modification In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 832 I understood a "selfing" species to be one that is self pollinating. If this is correct, then it would seem the % outcrossing would be very low to nil and this would seem to explain why the control % of outcrossing was not given. It is contained in the descriptor "selfing". Mike Miller At 18:09 15-05-99 -0600, you wrote: > >> As a example, inserting the gene for herbicide-resistance >> transgenically (vs. a natural mutation) changed a selfing weed >> species Arabadopsis thaliana into a 10% outcrossing species. >> Outcrossing - apart from enhancing the risk of weediness - has >> nothing to do with herbicide resistance. It is a secondary, >> unintended trait. And it was caused specifically by placement of the >> novel gene within the chromosome because a) when it happened >> naturally, outcrossing was not affected, and b) the % outcrossing >> varied among transgenic lines given the same herbicide resistant >> gene. Numerous other examples exist - this is not unique. > >This is one good example of the pseudo-science. How much is the outcrossing >rate in wild Arabidopsis? (in other word, how much is the *control*?, or >better, how much it was in that particular experiment?) This data is not >given, then it is concluded that 10% is caused by GE. >If normal outcrossing rate is 50%, GE are bad because reduced the rate ;-) >If normal outcrossing rate is 0%, GE are bad because enhanced the rate >If normal outcrossing rate is not tested or given, GE are bad because >outcrossing was (searched and) found in GE. >It is called CONTROL, it is what should *normally* happen, and it is >necessary. > >By the way, I also know other examples like this, of course without the >control. > >Maurizio Ventura > > > >"Be part of the solution, >not the problem." > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 15 23:03:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA15308 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 23:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA17585 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:23:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA17558 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 22:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.70]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 21:28:02 -0500 Message-ID: <373E2B68.C0DB1059@cillnet.com> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 21:20:24 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: Natural How To? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 833 Hi Since our transition to organic, I've been fighting grass,weeds,etc. around our bins,driveways,& buildings. We used to use chemicals. The answer I get most is weeds don't hurt anything. My landlord doesn't see things this way & is used to things neat & clean. I've tried flaming with limited results. String Trimming kicks rocks up and hurts my legs etc. Mowing picks up rocks and dulls the blades. The rock we use in these areas is limestone. Looking for a good solution maybe, salt, vinegar, lets throw in some oil & we'll have a salad. Ha Ha! Anxiously awaiting your replies! Floyd Johnson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 01:47:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA16748 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 01:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA26734 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:31:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA26687 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.ppi-far.org (mail.ppi-far.org [198.78.10.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA11123 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 00:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Sun, 16 May 1999 00:31:28 -0400 Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from ibm770 (206.185.4.158::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Sun, 16 May 1999 00:31:27 -0400 From: "Harold Reetz" To: "Laura K. Paine" , Cc: "Quentin Rund" Subject: RE: Conflicting views Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 23:30:52 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01be9f54$e18dfa00$c1a8fea9@ibm770> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-reply-to: <3.0.2.32.19990515141905.006f2cc8@facstaff.wisc.edu> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 834 Laura: Thanks for your comments. I am really amazed ... and overall quite pleased .... with the number of responses to my comments. I have read them all, and am sorry that I have not been able to reply to each one. I think most of the arguments have a lot to offer, and have represented honest differences of opinion. It is good to shake the tree once in a while. While that was not my intent, it has created some interesting dialog. I know Dennis Avery's ideas are sometimes a bit overstated, often probably to help stimulate response. There is no perfect answer to the peaceful co-existence on growing population, natural resource conservation, wildlife habitat protection, and a range of farming systems that put pressure on all of the above. My comments may have come across as a promoter of big-scale, corporate farmers, and technology at any cost. That is NOT my position. I share your concerns for maintaining a balanced system that feeds the Holsteins and encourages the meadowlarks. I think we can and MUST work toward that. My training and experience working in agriculture with a wide variety of farmers in the Midwest (and to a limited extent in other parts of the world) has given me a strong belief in the careful application of science to help make this happen. Science and technology do not have to mean corporate farms or destruction of wildlife habitat. I do not have confidence that we can switch to a low-input agriculture, nor that there is any practical way to return to a system where a large percentage of the population can grow their own food. Our agricultural system works pretty well, and if we can encourage farmers to incorporate the best management systems that research in universities and industry have developed. Farmers have to be able to make a profit to be able to adapt practices that they know they should use. Many of the comments received on this discussion have referred to a new world view, one that transcends science. I am not sure I fully understand that concept. I am afraid it is more philosophical than real, but I am open minded enough to keep it on the table for consideration. That is not to say that philosophy isn't a key part of sustainable production systems. But the final analysis still comes down to dollars and cents. Philosophy doesn't keep the farm operational. Economics also gets in the way of the application of the best science. In any case, this has been an interesting discussion and I appreciate the thought and passion that has been behind the responses. Whether we ever reach a common understanding, the debate is valuable and in the long run will hopefully in some small way contribute to a better agriculture. Harold Reetz Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research 111 East Washington Street Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 Phone: 217-762-2074 FAX: 217-762-8655 e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com -----Original Message----- From: Laura K. Paine [mailto:lkpaine@facstaff.wisc.edu] Sent: Saturday, May 15, 1999 9:19 AM To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Harold Reetz Subject: Conflicting views Hello Dr. Reetz and everyone, I hope, Dr. Reetz, that you choose not to sign off the list. It wouldn't be much of a discussion if we didn't represent differing points of view with our comments. Having said that, I'd like to take issue with your comments about Dennis Avery's vision of agriculture. [REST DELETED] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 08:01:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA19776 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 08:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA22434 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 07:15:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA22338 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 07:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA19281 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 07:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 16 May 99 07:20:08 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 16 May 99 07:19:42 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:19:41 EST Subject: Re: Genetic modification X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 835 Mark and Maurizio: the control figure for outcrossing in Arabadopsis thaliana is 0.3%, omitted for brevity in a brief contribution to a listserver. Not clear how this qualifies as "pseudo- science". You are encouraged to check out my homepage where the reference for this and other evidence is posted. By this evidence, insertion of the transgene (for herbicide resistance) increased outcrossing by up to 30% (depending on the particular transgenic line). Ann > I understood a "selfing" species to be one that is self pollinating. If > this is correct, then it would seem the % outcrossing would be very low to > nil and this would seem to explain why the control % of outcrossing was not > given. It is contained in the descriptor "selfing". Mike Miller > > At 18:09 15-05-99 -0600, you wrote: > > > >> As a example, inserting the gene for herbicide-resistance > >> transgenically (vs. a natural mutation) changed a selfing weed > >> species Arabadopsis thaliana into a 10% outcrossing species. > >> Outcrossing - apart from enhancing the risk of weediness - has > >> nothing to do with herbicide resistance. It is a secondary, > >> unintended trait. And it was caused specifically by placement of the > >> novel gene within the chromosome because a) when it happened > >> naturally, outcrossing was not affected, and b) the % outcrossing > >> varied among transgenic lines given the same herbicide resistant > >> gene. Numerous other examples exist - this is not unique. > > > >This is one good example of the pseudo-science. How much is the outcrossing > >rate in wild Arabidopsis? (in other word, how much is the *control*?, or > >better, how much it was in that particular experiment?) This data is not > >given, then it is concluded that 10% is caused by GE. > >If normal outcrossing rate is 50%, GE are bad because reduced the rate ;-) > >If normal outcrossing rate is 0%, GE are bad because enhanced the rate > >If normal outcrossing rate is not tested or given, GE are bad because > >outcrossing was (searched and) found in GE. > >It is called CONTROL, it is what should *normally* happen, and it is > >necessary. > > > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 11:12:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21628 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15363 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 10:30:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15359 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 10:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA23835 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 10:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 16 May 99 10:34:55 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 16 May 99 10:34:54 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:34:54 EST Subject: Re: Genetic modification X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 836 Folks: geesh - cannot even get my own figures right. Must be this bright sunny Sunday morning, luring me outside the garden. It should be 30X not 30% (e.g. from 0.3 to 10% is about a factor of 30, not 30%). Ann > Mark and Maurizio: the control figure for outcrossing in > Arabadopsis thaliana is 0.3%, omitted for brevity in a brief > contribution to a listserver. Not clear how this qualifies as > "pseudo- science". You are encouraged to check out my homepage where > the reference for this and other evidence is posted. By this > evidence, insertion of the transgene (for herbicide resistance) > increased outcrossing by up to 30% (depending on the particular > transgenic line). Ann > > > > I understood a "selfing" species to be one that is self pollinating. If > > this is correct, then it would seem the % outcrossing would be very low to > > nil and this would seem to explain why the control % of outcrossing was not > > given. It is contained in the descriptor "selfing". Mike Miller > > > > At 18:09 15-05-99 -0600, you wrote: > > > > > >> As a example, inserting the gene for herbicide-resistance > > >> transgenically (vs. a natural mutation) changed a selfing weed > > >> species Arabadopsis thaliana into a 10% outcrossing species. > > >> Outcrossing - apart from enhancing the risk of weediness - has > > >> nothing to do with herbicide resistance. It is a secondary, > > >> unintended trait. And it was caused specifically by placement of the > > >> novel gene within the chromosome because a) when it happened > > >> naturally, outcrossing was not affected, and b) the % outcrossing > > >> varied among transgenic lines given the same herbicide resistant > > >> gene. Numerous other examples exist - this is not unique. > > > > > >This is one good example of the pseudo-science. How much is the outcrossing > > >rate in wild Arabidopsis? (in other word, how much is the *control*?, or > > >better, how much it was in that particular experiment?) This data is not > > >given, then it is concluded that 10% is caused by GE. > > >If normal outcrossing rate is 50%, GE are bad because reduced the rate ;-) > > >If normal outcrossing rate is 0%, GE are bad because enhanced the rate > > >If normal outcrossing rate is not tested or given, GE are bad because > > >outcrossing was (searched and) found in GE. > > >It is called CONTROL, it is what should *normally* happen, and it is > > >necessary. > > > > > > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca > Dr. E. Ann Clark > Associate Professor > Crop Science > University of Guelph > Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 > Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 > FAX: 519 763-8933 > http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 12:37:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22726 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 12:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA07525 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:59:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07466 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.134]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA18058 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 10:56:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990516105735.006e6424@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:57:35 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Roly-poly plague Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA07480 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 837 Dear SANET, I remember that there was a discussion about roly-poly bugs a few months ago, though I can't seem to find the references. A man here in San Cristobal has a serious problem with them in his orchid house. He has a remarkable collection and is hoping to work with communities here for orchid conservation and tourism. I think of roly-polies as more a nuisance than a plague but he tells me that they come out en masse in the night and inflight considerable damage on the productive potential of his orchids by nibbling on the grwoing root tips. This impedes growth and flowering. This "dry season" has been more humid than usual (fortunately) but this has increased the problems as the roly-polies thrive. He has tried a number of obvious solutions (chile, garlic sprays etc.) but desparate form something more effective that does not involve the use of poisons. Can anyone help us with this problem? Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 12:40:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22752 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 12:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA08156 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 12:01:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pike.sover.net (pike.sover.net [209.198.87.34]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08056 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 12:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (arc0a98.bf.sover.net [209.198.85.98]) by pike.sover.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA16017 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 12:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on pike.sover.net) oemcomputer from arc0a98.bf.sover.net [209.198.85.98] 209.198.85.98 Sun, 16 May 1999 12:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000201be9fb5$c3bb94e0$6255c6d1@oemcomputer> Reply-To: "farm connection" From: "farm connection" To: "sanet" Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1020 (brucellosis) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 12:03:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 838 This story was submitted to our newspsper "The Farm Connection" by Phil Ledoux of Claremont NH. - Karen **************************************************************************** HARD EARNED INSIGHT It took being driven out of farming to have enough time to recognize what had been done to us. Before, we were on the treadmill, not able to see ourselves... Allow me to put some past experiences to paper so others who are still on the treadmill may see a better perspective. [Acres USA recently published an article about brucellosis being a deficiency disease] If brucellosis is a deficiency disease, then the programs to control the disease are nothing more than a political football. When I was a boy, just old enough to have my first gun, my father and I went to see a very old (at least in my young eyes) man who sold me his single shot 22. On the way home, my father told me the story behind the man. I was not old enough to understand the implications, but I was old enough to remember. The gentleman had been a longtime New England sales rep for many agricultural equipment manufacturers. He knew the territory and politics inside out. In retirement, he had a small farm almost within the city limits of a nearby town. He had eight milkers and sold his milk retail personally. Lo and behold, the state of New Hampshire pioneered a brucellosis eradication program (early 30's I believe). This gentleman's herd had three reactors and four suspects, which meant he couldn't sell the milk unless they were removed from the herd via the slaughter program. He kept selling milk. Pretty soon the state of New Hampshire gave him a cease and desist order. He continued to sell milk and was subsequently taken to court. The state had a "cut and dried" case on hand and were surprised when the old fellow asked the judge in an offhanded manner if he were allowed to have anyone testify in his behalf. The judge asked how much time was involved. The man responded he would have them there tomorrow. The judge granted permission. Four veterinarians from bordering states and countries showed up the next day (Maine, Canada, Vermont and Massachusetts). All testified that they had drawn blood on the herd recently and all were negative. Case closed, and the old gentleman sold milk until he died without further molestation. What the old gentleman probably knew, but was discreet enough to not speak out loud, was the fact that Hood was trying to expand its control of fluid milk to include the "Boston Milkshed" which included most of New England north of Boston. With thousands upon thousands of little farmers with four to ten cows supplying the local milk demands, Hood couldn't muscle into control. But if the little fellow were legally forced to replace part of his herd overnight, he would have to close up business. And that is exactly what happened. These little farmers couldn't afford to replace the brucellosis reactors and suspects that the state identified on a short notice. This was the first step to big farming in New England Supposedly, the cattle slaughtered were sent to a state-approved slaughterhouse where the carcass was carefully examined and suspected portions were removed from human consumption. Many a moon later, when in the Navy on the other side of the world, I talked with a sailor from New Hampshire. What a small world indeed it is! In finding a common ground, I discovered that he had worked in the only state-approved slaughterhouse for brucellosis contaminated cattle. How were the parts eliminated? No different than any other slaughterhouse he worked in: everything went into human consumption that was possible. So much for the protection of the consumer and the rape of the farmer. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 15:06:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25098 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA06933 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06863 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool566-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.56]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01152; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373ED693.60111AEF@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:30:43 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary Hendrickson CC: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Re: For-profit food system References: <373CF03E.3B920E41@missouri.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 839 You are so right, and all these insurmountable problems are exactly why we should be looking to the only Source who can instantly and completely correct ALL the problems and provide a new earth where everyone is totally happy forever. Mary Hendrickson wrote: > In my response to criticizing ADM and others for "feeding the world" > Steve wrote: > > > How can I continue farming and not make a profit? > > > > Steve Groff > > > > Let me clarify my original message. Of course farming has to be > economically viable. I find it astounding however that ADM should tout > their slogan of feeding the world when "the world" is plainly not who > they are trying to feed. They are trying to feed those who have money > to buy their products so what happens is that much food gets produced in > the have-not nations of the world to be consumed in the have nations of > the world. It's also been shown that much of the increase in yields > we've experienced in this century has had the ironic effect of making > more people hungry by driving them out of subsistence agricultures and > into cash crops. Clearly, as we've discussed before on this list, > hunger is more a function of political, social and economic context > rather than strictly a production problem. > > However, feeding hungry people is not something we've addressed very > well in the sustainable agriculture movement in Canada and the US. It's > not because we don't want to. Sustainable farmers work hard and need to > be paid justly for their efforts. Sometimes this makes this wholesome > food unaffordable to limited resource families, however. Meanwhile, > large agribusinesses are dumping surpluses, overruns, unasethically > packaged food and the like into our system of food banks and pantries so > that emergency food sources have to rely on industrialized agriculture > rather than sustainable agriculture for food for the hungry. One way > that many groups are trying to address these issues is to help people > again try to feed themselves from small plots in both urban and rural > areas. On the whole, though, the critique of sustainable agriculture, > or alternative food systems, as mainly for the middle class remains > somewhat valid. I don't have good answers but would like to see we in > the sustainable agriculture movement work in this area as well. > > Mary > > -- > Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. > Network Coordinator > Food Circles Networking Project > University of Missouri Outreach and Extension > Department of Rural Sociology > Columbia, MO 65211 > > Tele: 573-882-7463 > Fax: 573-882-1473 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 15:06:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25099 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07010 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06923 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool566-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.56]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01231; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373ED7F6.76D9F744@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:36:38 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bluestem Associates CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Low-caffeine coffees References: <199905141516.LAA07793@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 840 The Madagascar coffees have not been utilized. Bluestem Associates wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 1999 06:49:14 -0700, Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) > wrote: > > >Barre, P. et al. (1998) Inheritance of caffeine and heteroside contents in > >an interspecific cross between a cultivated coffee species Coffea liberica > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > >var. dewevrei and a wild species caffeine-free C. pseudozanguebariae. > >Theoretical and Applied Genetics vol 96 no. 2 pp. 306-311 > > Did they state why they crossed it with *liberica*? That species is > generally known for its extremely high caffeine content (in some cases > exceeding 8% !!). Typically arabica X3 = robusta X3 = liberica for > caffeine content. > > A lot of the Andean arabicas are well below 1% caffeine, depending on > the strain grown. There may be arabica strains out there that are > virtually caffeine free already but no one has prospected them. They > probably get mixed in with higher caffeine stuff and disappear into > commerce unnoticed. > > Most of the organic coffees out of the Andes are low-caffeine arabicas > and quite a good brew if roasted right. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 15:07:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25107 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07038 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06993 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool566-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.56]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01286; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373EDA08.B485264D@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:45:29 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Clark CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Forward RE: information, extension, biotech, philosophy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 841 I'm not so sure about China's have been able to feed everyone. Remember the book by Pearl Buck, who grew up there, and wrote that book that knifed thru anyone's heart who read it--there must have been terrible suffering from hunger there, or she would not have written that book. Maybe most of you are not old, like me, and too young to remember the movie that was made from her book about that. No one who saw that could forget the look on the woman's face, when she was forced by her husband to give up her pearl to that sickening young adulteress. Maybe some will also remember how furious audiences were over that incident.. Everyone was also angry at Pearl Buck for having written that--and she always was wondering why we were all so angry about it. I can remember it so clearly myself and it makess me angry again just remembering that incident. Also, same book/story, I think, that this same poor wife strangled her newborn baby because she could not bear to have one more starving child. No, I'll never be able to think of China as having conquered the issue of starvation. But it is partly because of just the kind of conditions Pearl Buck wrote about that the Chinese govt put out those laws about having only 1 child. Andy Clark wrote: > Forwarded: > > From: Gord Hawkes > To: "'Harold Reetz'" , > "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" > > Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 > Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:03:43 -0400 > > Harold. First I commend you on exercising your right to express your > opinion. I appreciate your candid views but we are of different ilks - > that which suits my perception is appropriate for me that which suits yours > is appropriate for you. > > GMOs are in my rather uninformed opinion - I have no science background - > unnatural as are the use of pesticides. You make claims that we cannot > sustain the human population using traditional farming methods. Many > civilizations before us although not sustaining urban centres as large as > our contemporary cities were able to feed their masses using ingenious and > natural farming methods. The Incas and Aztecs were remarkably adept at > producing food in ways that provided for their populations. The Chinese > were equally adept at doing the same. We have become less ingenious in > developing conventional agricultural practices and focus on ways to > outsmart or outwit mother nature. Why is it that we feel that bugs and > other natural problems are in fact problems? Why is that we attempt to > grow corn where we should grow potatoes? Why is that we graze cattle where > virgin rainforest once stood? Why is that we grow a considerable amount of > food for domestic livestock possibly even more than we grow for our own > populace? If we continue to believe that we can dominate nature through > meddling with her superiority we are, in my humble opinion, fools. Why is > that we cannot focus more on the ways of nature and less on the dominance > of nature? > > I don't consider myself anti anything and I believe progress is good if it > balanced and fits the natural order. However, I am also a hypocrite as I > drive a car and take advantage of many of the conveniences developed in the > latter part of this century - many of which have been developed at the > expense of nature. But I am hopeful that we can bridge the gap and work > towards sustainability and working with nature in solving our problems. > > This is my $0.02 worth. > > Gord Hawkes > Log Cabin Orchard > Osgoode, On > Canada, eh > > On Thursday, May 13, 1999 12:44 AM, Harold Reetz [SMTP:hreetz@ppi-far.org] > wrote: > > After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I find it > > difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" that are > included > > in this "list" without responding. It appears that this is really a > forum > > for the anti-science, anti-industry people to post their ideas and their > > attacks on science and industry. Comments such as the importance of > > "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have > made > > in agriculture has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be > a > > general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about GMOs and > > other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. > > > > I had hoped this was a forum for a more balanced discussion and > assessment > > of facts. I guess that is asking too much. But I am concerned about the > > comments that the new technologies in agriculture are creating hazards > and > > quality problems when there is no evidence to support such claims. > > Agriculture has changed and will never be the same as we remember in the > > "good old days", but the cause/effect relationship is not nearly so much > a > > result of technology as it is our nations desire to have cheap, abundant > and > > healthy food. We use technology to accomplish that better than any other > > nation in the world. Our success makes it possible for 98% of our > > population to NOT live on the farm and grow their own food. Were it not > for > > the science and technology and the large-scale intensive production > systems > > we have implemented over the past 50+ years, more people would be forced > > into growing food and thus would have less time to attack those who do > grow > > it. > > > > I am proud of the progress we have made in attacking pest and disease > > problems with reduced reliance on pesticides. Doing it with GMOs, with > > cultural practices, and overall systems management, we have a great story > to > > tell. There is apparently a certain population who feel obliged to > attack > > progress. They fought pesticides and when we replaced pesticide use with > > GMOs, many of the same people jumped from the anti-pesticide bandwagon to > > the anti-GMO bandwagon. > > > > Another comment in this thread points out that many of the world's food > > problems are political, rather than production problems. That is true. > And > > the kind of discussions this thread is fostering help to support those > > political problems. > > > > There are also some anti-Avery comments that I am concerned about. > Dennis > > has a pretty solid story that if it weren't for our use of technology, > much > > more of the world's natural forest ecosystems would be turned into food > > production. Our high yield management systems in the US can do much more > to > > help save the rain forests and deserts and to protect fragile ecosystems > > than any other option we have before us. Most of our food crops could > not > > survive in nature. Most of our agriculture could not survive without > > continuous infusion of technology. It is our success with technology > that > > gives us the abundance and efficiency that allows more people to NOT be > > involved in food production. I doubt that you will find a large > percentage > > of the 98% non-producers who would trade their life styles with going > back > > to producing their own food. > > > > Maybe instead of complaining about the direction of this list, I should > just > > remove my name from it. For now, thanks for letting me vent my concerns. > > > > Harold Reetz > > > > Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. > > Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute > > Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research > > 111 East Washington Street > > Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 > > > > Phone: 217-762-2074 > > FAX: 217-762-8655 > > e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org > > PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org > > InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 > > Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 15:07:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25115 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:07:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA08910 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:36:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08818 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15064 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA21074 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 13:35:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199905161835.NAA21074@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 13:35:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Roly-poly plague In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990516105735.006e6424@mail.internet.com.mx> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 842 Howdy, all-- Ronald Nigh wrote: > I remember that there was a discussion about roly-poly bugs a few > months ago, though I can't seem to find the references. I posted some info on controlling pillbugs/sowbugs in November of '98. That's in the SANET archives at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/29-html/0036.html Is your orchid-grower sure that it's pillbugs or sowbugs doing the damage? They generally are little composters, devouring dead and decaying plant matter. peace mish <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 15:10:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25145 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07117 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07019 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool566-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.56]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01364; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373EDAC0.C1E643FA@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:48:32 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Clark CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Forwarded RE: information, extension, biotech, philosophy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 843 another one on the wrong side of the fence Andy Clark wrote: > Forwarded: > > Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:57:14 -0500 > From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) > Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com > > Harold > > What you say comes straight from the book . How ever I farmed straight > from the book almost 20 years now , it's gotten me just about nothing . > In the last several years I have attended several different field days > that have changed the way I look at things. These farmers don't pay any > attention to the book and accomplish things I never dreamed of > accomplishing. They don't use herbicides, can't afford the yield drag. > They aren't shooting for 200 bu. corn, more like 300 bu. They don't use > insecticides, read nerve gas, when maybe a little sugar will do the job, > etc. etc. etc. > I am all for progress but this time it's going to be My progress. > Not a > World War Industry's . To clarify what I mean read on. What did the > fertilizer companies make before fertilizer (gunpowder). What did the > chemical companies make before herbicides & insecticides (nerve gas). > Now today we have GPS, the military is done with it so lets pass it on > to the farmers , hate to lay off any workers they might have to grow > their own food or something awful like that. > Of course why should they when farmers are willing to support them > and > provide them food and fiber cheaper & cheaper every day as they cut > themselves out of the picture. > I need to stop before I get carried away it just makes me very mad > when > people say we need all of this stuff to feed the world when I know > people who are doing a wonderful job without it . There are even some > figures that say on account of pollution we might not have a world to > feed. Please look at all of the information from all of the sources > before you decide which side you pick. I know where I am at and I > believe most non biased intelligent people will make the same decision > if they truly dig in to all of the information. > > Sincerely > Floyd Johnson > > IN REPLY TO: > > (206.185.4.173::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 13 May 1999 > 00:44:33 -0400 > From: "Harold Reetz" > To: > Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1012 > Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:43:45 -0500 > > After 25+ years in Extension and Industry agronomist positions, I find it > difficult to sit back and read the attacks on the "system" that are included > in this "list" without responding. It appears that this is really a forum > for the anti-science, anti-industry people to post their ideas and their > attacks on science and industry. Comments such as the importance of > "values" in addition to science....implying that the progress we have made > in agriculture has been at the expense of values. There also seems to be a > general trend in this thread to looking for any negatives about GMOs and > other technology.....implying that GMO is a BAD thing. > > STUFF DELETED > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 15:10:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25149 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07176 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07095 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool566-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.56]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01019; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373ED5B0.80EF6E4F@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:26:56 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas M. Hinds" CC: MV , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: GMO and cars References: <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> <199905142037340810.0279FDCE@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 844 How sad it is, that the completely, totally perfect conditions everyone really would want, are to be worldwide SOON, altho we don't know when, exactly.---and still people don't want to know about it, because it could never, ever be of human effort, but is a sure promise from the Creator. All this fuss and stew, because humans are caught in this life net, when an absolutely perfect world is right around the corner, but hardly anyone really wants it. ======================= Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > Hi Maurizio, > > >Create a GE rice for high productivity, diseases resistant, drought > >tollerant, no terminator, and give it away for free. And let the > >against-GMO people explain why not to use it in the Third World. > > > >Create a GE peach or a GE apple variety diseases and insects resistant, > >constantly bearing, harvest in one time, slow ripening, high shelf-life, > >full bright red; doing so you cut the production costs to one half, sell > >the fruit cheaper than the normal fruits. And explain the consumer why they > >cost less... Just to see what happens. > > I have a word for this: "Fantasy" (If it were true, if it were the whole story, > the word would be "Fantastic"). However .... (there will be no shortage of > responses explaining to Maurizio - who has contributed some good posts > in the past - the difference between living, sexually derived organisms and > cars). > > DH > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 14/05/99 at 11:06 PM MV wrote: > > >I would like to talk about the similarity between GMOs and cars. > >Car is a technology; it exploits nature; it causes pollution; it causes > >200.000 deaths every year in the world. Nobody would like to eliminate the > >car technology from our planet. It is too much CONFORTABLE. Who cares on > >the deaths, the pollution and the nature? > >Think beginning of the century: if someone had said "car will kill people > >as a war every year", would we have had car today? But today it is too > >late, car is CONFORTABLE. > >(this thought is from Isaac Asimov) > > > >With GMOs, we are at the beginning of the century. We will have problems, > >pollution and maybe deaths. But if GMOs will be CONFORTABLE, nobody will > >renounce to them. > > > >Create a GE rice for high productivity, diseases resistant, drought > >tollerant, no terminator, and give it away for free. And let the > >against-GMO people explain why not to use it in the Third World. > > > >Create a GE peach or a GE apple variety diseases and insects resistant, > >constantly bearing, harvest in one time, slow ripening, high shelf-life, > >full bright red; doing so you cut the production costs to one half, sell > >the fruit cheaper than the normal fruits. And explain the consumer why they > >cost less... Just to see what happens. > > > >I have the maximum respect to who treats the GMO matter as a religious > >point of view, because they simply said "no, it is my feeling". They don't > >use pseudo-scientific affirmations. I have the maximum respect for religions. > > > >Often I see the use of scientific *evidences* that are not. In every > >experiment or pseudo-evidence against GE I have always found the lacking of > >the *control*, that statistically speaking is somethings very clear. > >Please, show me the control. > > > >The wrong beginning was to start with food. GE should have started with > >flowers. People (we) don't treat flowers as part of the nature. We cut > >them, and put in some place in the house to let them die. GE should have > >started with GM flowers that takes forever to die. This is confortable. > >People'd started to think "GE is confortable" and that's all. > > > >Maurizio Ventura > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 15:10:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25153 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 15:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07164 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07091 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool566-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.56]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01416; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373EDBCD.64574DCA@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:53:01 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" CC: "'Bluestem Associates'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Low-caffeine coffees References: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D803B@10.248.cabi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 845 I remember now, it was Dr. Mrak at UC Davis to whom I spoke about the Madagascar coffee so low in or without caffeine, but he never did anything about it--and he was one who, with his position and reputation, probably could have done something. Not that I regret this--I never want to drink that kind of stuff. ================ Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: > The paper referred to below states that the selection of C. liberica var. > dewevrei the authors were using had 1% caffeine on a dry weight basis, and > that C. pseudozanguebariae contains a large amount of a specific heteroside > [glycoside] diterpene which is involved in the bitterness of the coffee > beverage. Analysis of caffeine content indicated that this trait is under > polygenic control with a strong genetic effect. However, only one major gene > seemed to be involved in the control of presence/absence of caffeine in > beans. The specific heteroside diterpene seemed to be controlled by one > major gene. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bluestem Associates [SMTP:bluestem@webserf.net] > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 1999 3:15 PM > > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > > Subject: Low-caffeine coffees > > > > On Fri, 14 May 1999 06:49:14 -0700, Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) > > wrote: > > > > >Barre, P. et al. (1998) Inheritance of caffeine and heteroside contents > > in > > >an interspecific cross between a cultivated coffee species Coffea > > liberica > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > >var. dewevrei and a wild species caffeine-free C. pseudozanguebariae. > > >Theoretical and Applied Genetics vol 96 no. 2 pp. 306-311 > > > > Did they state why they crossed it with *liberica*? That species is > > generally known for its extremely high caffeine content (in some cases > > exceeding 8% !!). Typically arabica X3 = robusta X3 = liberica for > > caffeine content. > > > > A lot of the Andean arabicas are well below 1% caffeine, depending on > > the strain grown. There may be arabica strains out there that are > > virtually caffeine free already but no one has prospected them. They > > probably get mixed in with higher caffeine stuff and disappear into > > commerce unnoticed. > > > > Most of the organic coffees out of the Andes are low-caffeine arabicas > > and quite a good brew if roasted right. > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 16:00:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25651 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07202 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07128 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool566-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.56]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01467; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373EDCD2.D86A106F@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:57:22 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sara Prout CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: gardens in NYC References: <3.0.5.32.19990513133755.00862630@pop.oxy.edu> <373C3469.96D9BB6D@california.net> <373C5DAE.45FE2905@california.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 846 Is there some way to thank that lady? I was one who wrote the mayor, not figuring it would do any good, but at least would make me feel better, but since she could and did do something that really helped, I'd like to be one who thanks her personally for doing something I could not do. Sara Prout wrote: > > It's unfortunate that the city could not see the > > social benefit (and even crime prevention effect) that these gardens provide, > > and that an individual had to save the day, but I guess that's the way things > > work sometimes. Blessed be, that it has come to this resolution. > > > > Sara > > > > Erika Higgins wrote: > > > > > A Victory for all gardeners! Thank you divine Miss M!!! > > > > > > (from the New York Times - 5/13/99) > > > A day before the Giuliani administration was to auction off city-owned > > > lots that had been transformed into community gardens, the performer Bette > > > Midler had her private conservation organization agree to buy dozens of the > > > less desirable parcels, providing the final financing to preserve all 112 > > > gardens that were set for sale. > > > > > > The 11th-hour announcement ended a long-running dispute between city > > > officials who said the parcels were ripe for sale and residents who viewed > > > themselves as gardeners tending to verdant oases in neighborhoods of > > > concrete and steel. But the fate of more than 600 other lots that were not > > > part of the auction remains unclear. > > > > > > Nevertheless, the $1.2 million purchase of 51 lots by the New York > > > Restoration Project -- arranged by a singer and actress better known for > > > her engaging flamboyance than for her diplomatic skills -- provided a vital > > > piece in the city's negotiations with environmental groups. > > > > > > The offer cleared the way for another conservation group, the Trust for > > > Public Land, to buy the rest of the 112 parcels for $3 million, a figure > > > that included an additional $1 million from Ms. Midler's organization. > > > > > > According to the deal, the two organizations are to work out plans to turn > > > over the properties to the community groups that tend to the gardens. If > > > the properties are ever used for anything other than gardens, ownership > > > will revert to the city, said Deputy Mayor Randy Levine, who helped in the > > > negotiations. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > Erika Higgins > > > ehiggins@oxy.edu > > > 323-259-1426 > > > Community Food Security Project > > > Occidental College > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 16:53:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA26122 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07305 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:32:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07228 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 14:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool566-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.56]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01713; Sun, 16 May 1999 11:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <373EE2ED.A715D6D1@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:23:25 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery's assumptions References: <56D970C48AA@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 847 I'm going to stick my unwanted nose in here, because something comes to my mind. Igrew up in Madagascar, where my parents were missionaries. One time my father, a tremendous green thumb, was assigned to the arid inland section, where there is a xerophytic forest. In that territory, there were periodic starvation situations. Part was because some smart guy brought in an insect from Australia that would eat up all the cactus. The cactus grew all over without restraint and was the chief diet for cattle, and that very arid land was cattle country. My father went right to the edge of the river, dug deep pits for trees, planted trees in the bottom of the hole. He dug along the river edge also to make a sunken strip, and on that strip he made raised beds and grew marvelous crops, using only cattle manure. I remember one head of cabbage so large I could have curled up in the spread of the outer leaves. But not one of the natives ever followed his lead.. They could easily have made food gardens next to his, water and manure in plenty, free, but they never bothered. Too lazy? too much heat? But the excellent example was right there and took no money--well;, for a shovel maybe, but that would be all. Think about this. Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Bart Hall wrote: > >Unlike many on this list, I largely agree with Mr. Avery's logic. > >Perhaps it is because I have worked in areas of Latin America where > >every critter larger than a squirrel has long-since disappeared into > >a stewpot. From his initial assumptions, Avery draws a reasonable > >series of conclusions. > > The problem that I have with the Avery assumption and > proclamation that modern agriculture will save rainforests, > environmental degradation and hunger is that it is based on a lot > mis-information. > > First of all, the phenomenon of 3rd world agrarian peasants clearing > the forests to eak out their livings isn't because they have not been > brought into the wonders of the modern world. It is more like > because they have been the victims of it. All over the world, there > is hunger because there is a mal-distribution of the over-supply of > world food and this mal-distribution holds true for basic education, > land, health care, and on and on. There has also been a break down > of the old, sustainable ag customs in most parts of the world as well > as a gobbling up of the best ag land by wealthy land owners who do > not actually need it to produce food (and what food they may produce > doesn't go to the poor masses anyway) and at the same time there has > been little good modern education to fill the void. > > So, we have lots of poor, hungry people on marginal lands with > neither traditional wisdom nor modern education to help them be > more successful farmers or even to give them much hope. Is it any > wonder they might cut down forests and stick every spare bird and > critter in the stewpot? If we go even further in the corporate > farming (monoculture, GE, agro-chems, industrial size...) paradigm, I > just don't understand how it can be argued that this will help either > hunger or the environmental effects of poor, desperate people? Now, > if there were more time and attention put into helping marginalized > farmers get back to many old, sustainable ways along with educating > them as to the new culture techniques we've discovered since (and > helping them to reclaim their love and respect for land and > ecosystems), and if good ag lands and market access were made > available for serious farmers, THEN I think we might see some postive > changes in terms of hunger AND re-forestation. Seems to me that > organic agriculture has a lot to offer in this regard. > > The problem of deforestation, environmental degradation, poverty and > hunger are not due to organic and/or sustainable production > practices. They have a lot to do with greed, mis-management, bad > politics, corruption, ignorance and the breakdown of traditional > cultures (people cultures and plant cultures) as well as civil wars, > unregulated pollution and urban sprawl, including golf courses, > dumps, industrial parks, highways and parking lots. This won't be > easily solved by fancy ag technology. > > What I CAN see the proliferation of corporate farming doing in the > developing countries is the same as I see in this country, only > worse (because there are fewer mediating forces). Farmers (already a > dieing species in developing countries too) will be forced off their > lands into the squalor of the cities where their lack of training and > education makes them vulnerable to the vaguaries of the cheap-labor > market (and "cheap" food doesn't mean much when you have to struggle > to pay for it), cities will continue to sprawl, and forests will > continue to be chopped down because of the value of their timber or > the land they sit on (think of the office buildings, the rents! and > we have to put our toxic waste somewhere!) and whatever connection > people may have still had toward the land will continually diminish > until the world clamors for monocrop chem lawns and landscaped vistas > instead of those untidy, dirty "brush" areas (formerly known as > forests, wetlands, prairies, etc.) > > Avery (and ADM I see has similar adds on tv now) is giving us a bait > and switch, in my opinion. He baits us with "this is good for the > environment" and the 'switch' is that it is good for a bunch of > conspicuous corporations and their stock holders who have not shown > much benevolent interest in ecosystems, that I can see, so far. > Forests can't express economic demand (and neither can poor people to > an appreciable extent), so this approach to let the "invisible hand" > (which is becoming increasinly *visible*, imo) make these sorts of > decisions is asking for trouble. I applaud all of you (many of whom > are more technically astute and articulate than I) for balking at > this and pointing out it's flaws. And thank you Alex for referencing > the tale of the "Emperor's New Cloths." > > Sorry to make this letter so long, but I don't know how to say it > more succinctly. > > Anita > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 17:16:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26370 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA19978 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:37:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wstcm1.westco.net (wstcm1.westco.net [205.245.79.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA19936 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.westco.net [205.245.78.170] by wstcm1.westco.net (SMTPD32-4.06) id AC40B3300FC; Sun, 16 May 1999 16:36:16 EDT Message-id: Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 16:40:10 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Fw: Save Farmland, Stop Sprawl! From: MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org (Marian Buckner) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu X-FC-Forwarded-From: marianb@intrepid.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 848 I am forwarding the following message with the permission of Chuck Beretz, American Farmland Trust. Some of you may be interested in participating in this Action Alert of AFT's grassroots movement to save America's farmland. If you wish, you can find out more about this by accessing the AFT website at www.farmland.org. Click YES in the green box on the upper left. Marian Buckner ---------- >> From: grassroots@farmland.org >> To: Chuck Beretz >> Subject: Save Farmland, Stop Sprawl! >> Date: Friday, May 14, 1999 3:55 PM >> >> GOOD NEWS! On Tuesday May 18th a bill to reauthorize the federal >> Farmland Protection Program will be introduced in the House. It is the >> companion bill to S. 333 and is cosponsored by Reps. Farr (D-CA), >> Gilchrest (R-MD), Boehlert (R-NY) and Condit (D-CA). >> >> DETAILS: The bill reauthorizes the Farmland Protection Program at $55 >> million per year for matching grants to state, local, tribal and >> nonprofit entities that purchase conservation easements from willing >> sellers. By rewarding local initiative, FPP funds have been leveraged >> nine-times over at the state and county level. The FPP is a voluntary >> program that compensates landowners and protects property rights. It >> creates no new bureaucracy and the government does not hold easements. >> >> The Farmland Protection Program is enormously popular: it is >> oversubscribed by 600% -- and has helped to permanently protect more >> than 120,000 acres of America's best farm and ranch lands from sprawling >> development. Unfortunately, the program's funding has run out. >> >> Please make a phone call NOW to a key Representative or two in your >> region and let them know of this opportunity to become an ORIGINAL >> COSPONSOR of this legislation. They will probably sign on eventually, so >> why not give them the chance to get extra credit for leadership?! >> >> Please instruct your Rep. to contact Troy Philips (Farr) or Erika Feller >> (Gilchrest) if they are interested in becoming an original cosponsor. >> >> Thanks! >> >> American Farmland Trust >> 1200 18th Street, NW, Suite 800 >> Washington, DC 20036 >> 202-331-7300 >> http://www.farmland.org >> >> _____________________________________________ >> We never spam. If your name has been placed on this alert list in error, >> please send an email to grassroots@farmland.org with the subject >> "REMOVE" and we will promptly delete your name from this list. --- Internet Message Header Follows --- Received: from loki.intrepid.net (204.71.127.3) by mail.westco.net (FirstClass Mail Server v5.1) transient id 31; 2:25:44 PM -0400 Received: from default (pm3shep2-163-87.intrepid.net [209.190.163.87]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24623 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 10:44:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199905161444.KAA24623@loki.intrepid.net> Reply-To: From: "Marian Buckner" To: Subject: Fw: Save Farmland, Stop Sprawl! Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 10:48:09 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 17:45:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26718 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08915 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:09:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08905 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ztm51-58.Zoetermeer.NL.net by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via ztm51-57.Zoetermeer.NL.net [195.108.245.222] with SMTP for id XAA24653 (8.8.8/1.18); Sun, 16 May 1999 23:09:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199905162109.XAA24653@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> From: "Frits v/d Laan" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 23:08:36 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: European consumerboycot of US products Reply-to: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net In-reply-to: <199905161834.OAA08095@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 849 Join the European consumerboycot (translate) and add this to all your mail As soon as the United States emposes tariffs on European products I will start a boycot of all typical US products to express my support to the European Union in there policy to protect productquality, productionmethodes and environmental and ethical standards. we don't want hormonetreated milk and beef or geneticly manipulated products that don't care about the consumer, animal welfare, small and organic farmers and the environment only to support the profits of a few multinationals. Any active and respectable producer or manufactorer ask there customer what they want and do not force there products upon them. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 18:13:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26997 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA26312 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA26300 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23530 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (root@rac10.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.150]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with ESMTP id RAA26535 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac10.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id RAA12244 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac10.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.0.Beta6) with SMTP id RAA12234 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 17:37:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac10.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 17:37:02 -0400 (EDT) From: joel b gruver To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: sustainable crop breeding In-Reply-To: <001001be9d6f$a7eb50e0$1568f6cd@kim> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 850 Hello to all, While skimming the many posts related to GMO on SANET over the last several weeks (there are just too many to read them all)...several things have come to mind... I am reminded of an analogy that I read in 1994 comparing the rapidly expanding biotechnology industry to a massive elephant that is seeking shelter and has to choose between 2 different structures... one structure (representing the industrial ag paradigm) is very large and can certainly fit the elephant... but this structure is very unstable, with massive but poorly connected walls built on a poor foundation... The other structure (representing sustainable ag) is much smaller but it has a solid foundation and well integrated design... The dilemma for the elephant is that if it enters the big structure it may become trapped as the structure collapses around it and if it tries to enter the small structure it may smash it because the elephant is simply too massive... one option the elephant has but does not seem inclined towards is going on a serious diet so that it can fit comfortably into the small sustainable structure... I currently don't recall where I read this but think that I have recounted the analogy fairly accurately (Is anyone else familiar with this analogy ?) I am also reminded of something I read about the difference between biotechnology and bioteknowledgy... biotechnology being the use of science (perhaps specifically recombinant DNA techniques) solely for the development of profitable products while bioteknowlegy is use of the same science to primarily increase fundamental understanding of biological systems... I am wondering if there are any crop breeders amongst the SANET community... Do crop breeders with a strong interest in sustainable ag think that we should let a slimmed down bioteknowledgy elephant into our sustainable ag structure ? Can we use the powerful tools of molecular biology to improve the sustainability of agriculture ?... I think that the sustainable ag community is rightfully wary of the massive biotechnology elephant... but we need to articulate our concerns with precision... and we need to be open to the possibility of some applications of bioteknowledgy fostering improved agricultural sustainability... Most of you are familiar with Wes Jackson and his vision of perennial polyculture modeled after the prairie ecosystem... at a recent soil quality summit hosted by the Land Institute, Jackson seemed quite interested in using recombinant techniques to facilitate the breeding of perennial grains... Well... enough ideas for now... looking forward to your commments... Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research U of MD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 18:49:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA27735 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA16300 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:11:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hil-img-7.compuserve.com (hil-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.177.137]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA16278 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id SAA12048 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:06:39 -0400 From: Klaus Wiegand Subject: RE: Small risks? To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <199905161809_MC2-75E2-29AC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 851 hello dale, >> It is incredible to me that you would be willing to say this >> in public, Dale. I fear it will come back to haunt you. >Well, maybe so. But everybody I know (except on a list-server or two) >thinks GMO's are okay. it seems, that things look quite different over here. and believe it or not, although the neanderthal is just 100 km away from here, we have made some progress in the last 15.000 years. scientists here are in a raging battle of argumenting pro and against. >> I have never seen such a gap between what most scientists >> (supposedly) think about an issue and the clear trend of >> public opinion world wide, as I see currently on this issue. >Oh yeah, I agree! (maybe not in the US) It's phenomenal, it's >political, it has something to do with distrust of science and >technology in general, and with vitalism. people definitely HAVE lost some trust in science here. one may speculate over the reasons, but that does not change the facts. and people are tired of being called luddists, when they ask for investigation. the highest support for alternative medicine, esoteric, trips to indian yogis and to the toscana in italy for potters's workshops and for organic food (i hear the revolting cries for throwing all this in one pot, but for me they all have something in common) is found among the better educated (and thus well-off) people (at least here in western europe). and maybe as there are a lot of scientists among them, they might be aware of the deficiencies of their own jobs. one of them is, that scientists have lost contact to nature, they work in air-conditioned laboratories on a small and well defined task and have become specialists up to the extreme. i know of agricultural M.S.'s, who have not the slightest idea, how a barley plant differs from a wheat plant nor when you have to sow peas. but they can tell you all about gene promoters, loci, aminases, recombinating and sequencing machines. not to forget: they can tell you all about risks of gm ! one of the consequences is, that they do not have the time to OBSERVE evident results of their work. if i do a literature search, i always take into account some of the older and even very old works (you might know them, they look a bit strange for today's readers : "as my very honored collegue, prof. wilson wrote me in a note from guinea, he also had done investigations and observed the following......"). certainly these articles are useless, if you look for molecular chemistry, genetics or modern technology, but they are very valuable, if you are looking for results in entomology or toxicology and you find results, noone is looking for today.. quite inspiring for today's researchers - if they had the time (i also can only read them in my leasure time at home, but i would not wanna miss them) we have a lack of field researchers and toxicologists (92-95% of the german toxicologists work for the industry, which results in 8 to 10% in the government and i deeply hope, that the gaussian distribution of knowledge and intelligence is equally distributed among both groups) and an overhead of statisticians, chemists and theoretical scientists ! >I did the following lit search a few weeks ago in Agricola and >Biosis to get info for a high school student working on a >project: > No. Records Request > 1 21465 transgenic > 2 6850 transgenic in de >[..] > 5 171870 risk >[..] >I haven't scrutinized these, but there was no obvious >smoking gun. you do agree, that the results of a search engine or a retrieval programm highly depends on the used catchwords? i did the same like you and at first came to the same conclusion. then i did, for example, an "AND"-search on "transgenic AND lectin" and prompty found the first hints for risks. you remember the "pusztay-case" ? i never took these posting really serious, as the behinds were quite contradictory and i am far too long in that business to know nothing of these old "professores emeriti", who cannot be send into pension, no matter what nonsense they are teaching when getting really old and queer. some of them continue to come to their old institute and in rare cases do nothing but disturb the good work of their successors. you simply can't send them home, they still insist on their working room and are bringing constant quarrel to the institute.. so the dean sometimes has to put an impolite and definite end to it. that's no global insult on professors, that's just the way of life. and you know max planck's remark on new theories and change in science....;-)) i remember having seen some of pusztay's works of the 50ies without special interest in them, but they already dealt with lectins. now for the interesting part: among a lot of other articles mentioning risks i found the following article, which dealth with the same theme as the dubious? article, for which he was being chased: ----- snip ------ Pusztai A. Koninkx J. Hendriks H. Kok W. Hulscher S. Vandamme EJM. Peumans WJ. Grant G. Bardocz S. Effect of the insecticidal Galanthus nivalis agglutinin on metabolism and the activities of brush border enzymes in the rat small intestine Journal of Nutritional Biochemistry. 7(12):677-682, 1996 Dec. With increasing use of lectin genes in crop plants to improve insect resistance, the dietary exposure of humans to lectins will rise and it is necessary to assess whether the presently most favored insecticidal lectin, Galanthus nivalis agglutinin, would be harmful for mammals. Effects of Galanthus nivalis agglutinin on gut and brush border enzymes were studied in rats over a 10-day dietary exposure and compared with those of a known antinutrient, phytohaemagglutinin. At a level that provides insecticidal protection for plants but did not reduce the growth Of young rats, Galanthus nivalis agglutinin had negligible effects on the weight and length of the small intestine even though there was a slight, but significant hypertrophy of this tissue. However, the activities of brush border enzymes were affected; sucrase-isomaltase activity was nearly halved and those of alkaline phosphatase and aminopeptidase were significantly increased. Although most of the changes in gut metabolism caused by the incorporation of Galanthus nivalis agglutinin in the diet were less extensive than those found with toxic phytohaemagglutinin, some of them may be potentially deleterious. Thus, further and longer animal studies are needed to establish whether it is safe to use Galanthus nivalis agglutinin in transgenic plants destined for human consumption. ----- end snip ----- you see, he evidently published the same results already a year before in a team and there was no opposition from the dean at rowett. now the one-million-dollar-question to you: what might be the reason about all that fuzz one year later ? it would be HIGHLY interesting to know, when monsanto started their funding at rowett !!!!! know what i mean, why it's sometimes very good to look for older or even very old articles ?? i may be wrong, but i think, the refusal of the european does not so much result from fear of risks, but from the way, they are treated by the nutritional industry. for us it is no good sign, that industry fears, a declaration will be bad for sales. and it's the ignorance of the first and most important maxime of the market. it's more the question, who will decide, what will be served on our tables: the consumer or the industry ? question: what is the most important characteristic of a consumer ??? yeah, he has the money, which the producer likes to have in exchange against something the consumer likes to have. if he does not like it (or need it), he will not sell it. point ! it is more a battle in the market, whether the producer or the consumer will decide, what to buy and what not to buy. the biotech companies have hired extremely expensive public relation companies like burmaster for answering questions, an old marketwoman in a farmer's market could tell them far better and for free : sell, what the consumer wants or needs, all other things are marketing flops!! why is this simple fact so difficult to understand ? maybe because they are producing more than we need, so they need to push their products into consumer's throats and we might suffocate on it. ? > I know it is hard to imagine in our sanitized, >public-health-saturated culture, but lurking just beyond the door >are all manner of flesh-eating, child-ulcerating, >immune-deceiving, spirochete-insidious, viral-cell-subverting, >hemorragic natural stuff that evolved to kill and eat you and me >by quite natural horizontal-transfer and spectacularly rare >quasi-sexual events over hundreds of millions of years. that's all right and fine, but there's no reason to add up more risks than we already have to deal with. there IS hysteria (it is evident) among some people and i cannot follow some of their arguments or ideologies among organic growers (some weeks ago i saw an advertisement for "organic tobacco". let me ask the reader: is any smoker more comforted, if he knows, that his lung myelom results from "organic" tobacco and is an "organic" cancer more natural than a "conventional" one ?? they are selling poison, no matter how they name it. (btw: i'm a smoker and that says it all about the madness and ill-logic of people!) BUT: there are reasons, why organic and sustainable agriculture in total go together much better than today's high-tech and high-energy agriculture.. (and that's why i subscribed to that group to learn more about it ! unfortunately there is less and less discussion about sustainable farming and more and more about gmo's. sustainable farming is not restricted to using no gmo's. right ?) *************** klaus wiegand **[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]******** * * * I came to MIT to get an education for myself * * and a diploma for my mother. * * - Richard Feynman * *************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 20:59:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA29931 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA13849 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:57:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.compy-net.com (host.dex-net.com [194.184.44.118]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA13589 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qualsiasi [195.223.189.40] by mail2.compy-net.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id ACDD29950124; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:55:25 +03d0 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990517004952.007a5960@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Sender: XD026Y@mail2.compy-net.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 00:49:52 +0200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: MV Subject: Re: Genetic modification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 852 Mike: the control of an experiment cannot be contained in a descriptor as "selfing", but must be measured (if you want to be published in a serious journal). Ann: I checked out your homepage and I am just printing one of the papers; it will take some time to read them all! I've found the reference to Bergelson et al., Promiscuity in transgenic plants, Nature 395, 25 (1998). I was unable to access the full text on the Nature web site, so I don't have the whole paper, but only the first paragraph, whose last sentence is "Here, however, we report results of a field experiment in which transgenic A. thaliana showed a dramatically increased ability to donate pollen to nearby wild-type mothers compared with A. thaliana mutants expressing the same mutant allele as the transgenic plants." Without having studied the whole paper, I can say nothing. I hope that "the same mutant allele" means that the mutant allele in the mutants has been sequenced and then inserted in the transgenic; however, the *real control* of the experiment is mutants transformed with the construct *without* the allele, I cannot know if it has been used. I say pseudo-science when the control is not given. In your web paper you wrote "Per-plant outcrossing rate was 0.3% for mutant fathers compared to 6% for transgenic fathers [...]", and this is NOT pseudo-science, but the correct way to expose the results. I really enjoyed the cow! Maurizio "Be part of the solution, not the problem." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 21:35:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA00455 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 21:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA16530 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 19:53:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA16515 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 19:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.130]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA25492 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 18:50:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990516185322.006f44f4@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:53:22 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: low caffiene coffee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA16518 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 853 Dear Sanet, Just an anecdote, but I remember being at the offices of ISMAM (the principle organic coffee producer's coop in Chiapas) when the results of their caffiene test came in from the lab. They were amazed that it was only a few points above what the expensive Swiss water process they were about to invest in was supposed to give. The comment from the lab people was that in general they found organic coffee to be lower in caffiene. They also said higher altitud translated into lower caffiene, and that "gourmet organic coffee' was just about as good as decaf. Food for thought, anyway. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 22:28:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01244 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA17203 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:46:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA17198 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 20:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d41-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.41]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA03062; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:46:28 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , "sanet" Subject: RE: 2nd year N contribution on legumes Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:59:08 +1000 Message-ID: <000801bea000$77ccb0a0$293325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <373CD3DD.65744472@epix.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 854 Steve wrote: >Anyone have info on the 2nd year N contribution from legumes? I had a field that last year had food grade soybeans (yielded 45 bu.) on the one side and sweet corn that was no-till planted into vetch/crimson clover on the other side. In the fall I seeded both sides of the field with rye. Now this spring, the side that had the vetch/clover last year is noticeably more lush. The beans gave some N I'm sure, but the legume gave more apparently. I just thought this observation was interesting and wondered if anyone else had similar findings. Steve, do I take it that in the soy bean (also legume) case, the crop remained standing until energy was all transferred to the beans and the beans removed from the field; whereas on the other side you removed the grain crop (leaving trash to work in?), but the legume remained in the field and (may have been turned in with the trash?). If that was how things went, you would leave a much different net balance between the two parts of the field, in much more than N, I would have thought. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 16 23:18:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01814 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA16508 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 21:33:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA16488 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 21:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d41-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.41]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA09037 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:33:00 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "sanet" Subject: Observations of sanet and more Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:45:40 +1000 Message-ID: <000901bea006$f7f180c0$293325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 855 My earliest training was in social anthropology and then I spent a career in the foreign service, so I guess I have irritating life long habits of observing communities from the fence and trying to see what can be learned from behaviour and the more extensive meaning of what they say, rather than just the things that folks want to say. These thoughts are not structured, but intended to suggest that if we are to figure out some of the most basic theoretical questions that obsess this list, it is necessary to look at why people may behave and have attitudes as they do. Thomas Hartmann, himself an adult with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, has written some interesting books on his proposition that people with ADHD are 'hunters' in a 'farmers' world. His characterisation of the hunter is as someone whose life and community depend on a restless, shifting focus, searching for the hostile and the prey - whereas the farmer's health and community depend on a steadfast commitment to the repetitive. And, Hartmann says, in the modern world, the farmers, in all aspects of life, have become dominant, and the hunters threatened. This is a concept which certainly helps me understand aspects of my life in a bureaucratic world, it may also provide an interesting perspective for people in academic institutions, regarding the relative success of the constantly insightful versus those with no boredom threshold who can plough the furrow remorselessly. All this is, of course, a gross simplification, but I think it's also useful to an understanding, for example, of why people in some parts of Latin America or Madagascar just can't seem to damn well settle down sensibly and be good farmers. The business of sustainable farming demands a greater patience than much conventional farming. However, at the same time as it demands a commitment to the repetitive, it also demands - to be really successful - great curiosity, memory, capacity for lateral thinking, willingness to look for 'a-ha' experiences, like Greg David with his mowing and the pig. These do not seem to be universal human attributes, but I think that to get more conventional farmers across the line, there has to be some shift at this level of mental focus and capacity. I suspect too that a lot of the laboratory science hunters may be a bit attention deficited, may be happy in the hunt for dead squirrels. What Hartmann's general proposition does not fully take into account is that a hunter's heaven may be to find a shootable squirrel in the same tree every day. That seems to me to be the boring stage that biotech research has reached. Is a lot of imagination required to find genes these day? -. About as much as chasing elephant with an Apache helicopter, I would have thought. So there is a gulf between such people and real farmers, and a form of exploitation of such hunters by large organisations sponsoring and exploiting such work of 'discovery'. A friend in another environment suggested something else to me recently, that there is a comparable competition and pressure between people who are 'sensitive' and people who are relatively 'insensitive'. The nature of modern urban life, the nature of bureaucratic organisations and business, the nature of farming, is a squeeze on the sensitive, and the rules and standards are increasingly those made by the insensitive. At a physiological level, more (sensitive) people are succumbing to chronic illness, while (insensitive) others seem unaffected by environmental factors at all and can't understand the fuss. In relation to sustainable agriculture, there is a problem in that this, fundamentally sensitive, activity is constantly shouldered off the main track by the insensitive. There is some public opinion which has growing apprehension of the way in which the products of insensitivity (meaning kinds of social organisation, workplace, foods, consumerist pressures) are closing in, but 'science' and 'technology' are doing nothing much to help them, just compounding social confusion and gullibility. I haven't figured answers, or strategies to offer, but I think it is important to raise these broader social, behaviour-related questions. No constant round and round of agronomy or GMOery will enable us to understand basic human behaviour or solve the problems arising. I'm not saying give up such discussion, but we should seek to read the code behind the exchanges we have and look for insights at that level. Dennis Argall. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 00:09:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02586 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA14293 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:22:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA14231 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp168.epix.net [209.74.60.168]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA06605; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373F7EE9.12E177D4@epix.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 22:28:57 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: sanet Subject: Re: 2nd year N contribution on legumes References: <000801bea000$77ccb0a0$293325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 856 Argall Family wrote: > Steve, do I take it that in the soy bean (also legume) case, the crop > remained standing until energy was all transferred to the beans and the > beans removed from the field; whereas on the other side you removed the > grain crop (leaving trash to work in?), yes, beans were havested and the other side was sweet corn. > but the legume remained in the field > and (may have been turned in with the trash?). I just left everything on top and no-till planted rye in the fall. The rye was slightly greener this spring on the sweet corn side. since th elegume cover was killed in the spring of 98 and the beans grew during the summer of 98 I would have thought there would have been more N for the rye, from the bean side then the sweet corn side, this (99) spring. > If that was how things went, > you would leave a much different net balance between the two parts of the > field, in much more than N, I would have thought. > > Dennis -- "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 00:21:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA03111 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA18072 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:30:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA18032 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp168.epix.net [209.74.60.168]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA07682; Sun, 16 May 1999 22:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <373F80C8.5F29DE3A@epix.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 22:36:57 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MV CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: GMO and cars References: <3.0.6.32.19990514230645.007de370@mail2.compy-net.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 857 MV wrote: > I would like to talk about the similarity between GMOs and cars. > Car is a technology; it exploits nature; it causes pollution; it causes > 200.000 deaths every year in the world. Nobody would like to eliminate the > car technology from our planet. > Think beginning of the century: if someone had said "car will kill people > as a war every year", would we have had car today? > With GMOs, we are at the beginning of the century. We will have problems, > pollution and maybe deaths. But if GMOs will be CONFORTABLE, nobody will > renounce to them. You have made a very good point. I find it amazing how quickly the responses to this post diverted back to the details of the issue while ignoring this analogy. We are just in kindergarten with GMO technology, just like we were with other advances that we now use. Let's review some important impacts that agriculture has experienced over the years and how we have dealt with them. 1. Tillage. Turning over the soil to prepare it for planting became the rage in the early part of this century. It made planting easier, helped control weeds, and allowed the vast prairies of the US to be farmed. The result was the worst environmental disaster ever to hit agriculture-the dust bowl. Not only that, soil erosion on most all land used for food production greatly increased. But farmers liked what it did for them. We have also become more fully aware in the last decade how tillage is destroying organic matter, CO2 loss is polluting the atmosphere, soil aggregate stability is decreasing, and microbial biomass is hindered- all because of tillage! Does that make tillage wrong today? Absoluty NOT! (and I'm a no-till farmer!) There is a limited time and place for it, but many farmers turn their backs on this destructive practice because it is "a necessary evil". 2. Pesticides. These came on the scene 50 or so years ago. They were touted as making pest control easier and more complete. The result was that indeed pests were controlled, but the killing spectrum was so wide that many non target organisms were also killed. But farmers liked what it did for them. People even got sick from too much pesticide exposure. Does that make pesticides wrong today? No. They are many times safer now and have a very narrow targeted spectrum. As a whole they degrade quicker and are more compatible to the environment. Some have chosen not to use these products, others have relied on there effectiveness for nearly all their pest problems, and still other farmers have been discriminate with there use. 3. Internal combustion engine. This came on the scene full force in the first quarter of this century. It provided a way to get more acres farmed. It lessened the need for human and animal labor. It provided faster transportation and many other advances. The result was greater efficiency and reduced labor needs. Farmers liked what it did for them. But now we know that the internal combustion engine has done irreparable harm to the environment we live in. The burnt fuel pollutes the air we breath, is dangerous to handle (actually is more dangerous than most pesticides, but the public pumps it into their vehicles everyday!) and is a non renewable resource. The cars we drive put us and others in danger of injury or even death every time we use them! But they seem to be worth this risk because we all use them. The pollution they generate has world wide effects. By now I'm sure you can see my point. GMO's have their share of problems, but the potential for a positive impact on agriculture is worth visiting. Sustainable Ag cannot limit itself to a certain philosophy of farming. We need to use everything at our disposal, be it the latest in technology, or a time tested practice that is adaptable to our farm and all the while making sure that it is a way to generate a profit, is good for the environment, and helps communities. GMO's are not the sole answer to today's ag needs, but they do hold some potential for the benefit of sustainaining agriculture. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 02:03:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA04480 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 02:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA18724 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:14:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA18669 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wclynx.com ([209.249.70.173]) by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with ESMTP id AAA91 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 21:14:08 -0700 Message-ID: <373F96F2.CBD7AAF8@wclynx.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 21:11:30 -0700 From: Diane Cooner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: gardens in NYC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 858 Apologies to any who received this message and did not want it! There were buildings. They were torn down. There were vacant lots. They were eyesores. Garden-minded people turned the eyesores into beautiful places that sustained life. All in the eye of the beholder! A barren lot becomes an oasis - and modern human sees dollar signs instead of Eden. When are we going to get it? A parcel is worth nothing until someone finds and brings out its beauty. And then there's a mad rush to put a price on it and make a financial killing. In my neighborhood, we have roadside spaces. Just a wide spot in the road. Someone comes by, opens their van, and starts selling stuff. People stop by, and buy stuff, and think it's great. The barren spot becomes a magnet for local activity. The county steps in. "Sorry, you're not paying for this space!". Signs go up, all activity is ceased by threat of fine. The next step is paving, more signs, and now we have a "park and ride" space, where we had some local commerce and some interesting colorful community before. Is this really an improvement? I liked checking out the local stuff for sale. Just like I'm sure the local neighborhoods in NYC liked having fresh food available where there used to be broken glass and trash. I think the gardens in NYC were better ideals, but we've both lost the same thing. Choice. Not only that, the bastards are taxing us for it. Take a stand, people! Show your support for free spaces and LOCAL, COMMUNITY CHOICES. love from diane To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 02:09:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA04523 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 02:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA24013 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:23:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from iac20.navix.net (iac20.navix.net [207.91.5.26]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA23899 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:22:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from navix.net (cras45p37.navix.net [206.158.194.167]) by iac20.navix.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA25098 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 23:19:33 -0500 Message-ID: <373FB7B7.C194CDB0@navix.net> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:31:19 -0700 From: Richard Mazour X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Lambsquarter Greens Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 859 Hi All, As I sat down to eat this evenings meal, I wondered if anyone else enjoys delicious lambsquarter greens this time of the year. I know everyone considers it a pesky weed, however I search for this tender delicacy on my organic farm to enjoy. Rich To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 02:23:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA04637 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 02:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA05389 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:40:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA05238 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA13858 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EASW2FJH; Mon, 17 May 1999 00:39:47 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 21:25:43 -0700 Subject: re: Roly-poly plague Message-ID: <19990516.212720.3574.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,16,27,33,39,41-42 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 860 Ronald Nigh wrote: > I remember that there was a discussion about roly-poly bugs a few > months ago, though I can't seem to find the references. I assume you are talking about those creatures that resemble miniature armadillos maybe 1/2 inch long (with, I think, 10 legs). I grew up in Kansas calling them "sow bugs." They supposedly eat only dead plant material and cause no economic harm, but CAN be serious pests--I've had them eat the fruit of strawberries and the entire plant of small seedlings. I'm not sure how much this will help, but I recall the thread of discussion you refer to. You might find the discussion by searching for "sow bug" or "pill bug." As I recall, someone asked for help with a plague then later complained about lack of response. That complaint brought protests that the scientific name wasn't used and one comment to the effect that they are supposed to eat only dead plants but sometimes don't wait for the plant to die. I don't recall any controls being suggested. I would expect more than usual humidity would contribute to their numbers. About control, while I was living and gardening in Phoenix, I gave up using mulch entirely because they were especially hard on mulched plants. Now that I am out of the city (outside Sierra Vista in southeast Arizona) I find I can successfully mulch, but I still have large numbers of sow bugs. They seem to fill the niche usually thought of for earthworms, which are nonexistent where I am now. My chickens love them and I see large numbers only in my compost and only if I manage to keep it reasonably moist. I'm even building compost pits in the chicken yard to encourage those creatures because my chickens need winter-time protein. Would it be possible to use poultry in the orchid greenhouse? A friend told me that guinea hens like sow bugs even better than chickens do, and guineas supposedly are kinder to gardens than chickens. I suggest this with reservations, however, because a friend gave me 4 adult guineas and I had such a miserable time with them that I gave them to another friend within 2 weeks. Also, how about diatomatous earth (DE)? I've not tried it, but my intuition says it might work. There is a difference of opinion about the specifications for DE; some say that you must buy insecticide grade while others insist that the DE used in swimming pool filters works nearly as well. I think DE is also a component of many scouring powders like AJAX. These are the only ideas I can come up with at the moment. Good luck. -- Edna Weigel ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 10:54:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11154 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15344 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:10:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15267 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (monk-b-asy-8.rutgers.edu [165.230.176.92]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA11798; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37403241.12A9@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:14:09 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rob Fetter CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: question: sodium nitrate References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 861 Rob Fetter wrote: > > Hi, > > I need some info on sodium nitrate (aka Chilean nitrate). I notice it's > allowed by some organic certification programs and prohibited by others. > When certifiers prohibit it, they cite that it has no long-term positive > effects on soil building (unlike some other fertilizers) and has high > sodium content, which is generally bad. Why, then, is it allowed in some > organic programs? What are the particular advantages sodium nitrate > offers? Rob, I am not an organic certifier. Nevertheless, I think my response is correct. "Chilean nitrate" is a natural geologic deposit, mined and used in an unrefined condition. Therefore it is "natural" and some organic certifiers historically have a default allowance for natural substances along with a default rejection of synthetic substances. Other certifiers have refined their system and will disallow natural stuff for reasons which fit certain criteria. So nicotine and strychnine are disallowed by some because of their toxicity, and nuts to their being natural. Long term use of chilean nitrate would have the same negative soil effects as long term use of a synthetic sodium nitrate, so many certifiers have phased it out and others restrict its use to 20% of the nitrogen requirement of the crop or other schemes. All are dealing with the fact that while it is natural, it isn't so good in the long term. I don't personally know anyone who uses it. best regards from NJ, Loren Muldowney > Thanks! > > Rob > > ***************** > T. Robert Fetter > Research Assistant > Dept. of Resource Economics > Draper Hall > University of Massachusetts > Amherst, MA 01003 > phone 413-545-5716 > fax 413-545-5853 > trf@student.umass.edu > > Check out the Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog at > http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 11:28:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12019 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01863 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:39:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from NIH2WAAD (smtp4.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01800 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:38:49 -0400 Received: from [216.192.118.156] (mid-qbu-nqz-vty156.as.wcom.net [216.192.118.156]) by dub-img-ims-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.7) with ESMTP id KAA16316; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: LawsonValentine@pop.site1.csi.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <373EDCD2.D86A106F@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990513133755.00862630@pop.oxy.edu> <373C3469.96D9BB6D@california.net> <373C5DAE.45FE2905@california.net> <373EDCD2.D86A106F@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:35:14 -0500 To: Bargyla Rateaver From: Lucy Miller Subject: Re: gardens in NYC Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 862 Anyone who wants to thank Bette Midler for her role in purchasing the gardens can write to New York Resoration Project, 1290 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY 10104 Their website is at www.bettewriter.com/nyrp.htm >Is there some way to thank that lady? I was one who wrote the mayor, >not figuring >it would do any good, but at least would make me feel better, but >since she could >and did do something that really helped, I'd like to be one who thanks her >personally for doing something I could not do. > > > > > > > Erika Higgins wrote: > > > > > > > A Victory for all gardeners! Thank you divine Miss M!!! > > > > > > > > (from the New York Times - 5/13/99) > > > > A day before the Giuliani administration was to auction off city-owned > > > > lots that had been transformed into community gardens, the >performer Bette > > > > Midler had her private conservation organization agree to buy >dozens of the > > > > less desirable parcels, providing the final financing to >preserve all 112 > > > > gardens that were set for sale. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 12:03:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12941 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22025 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:16:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from milkyway.uark.edu (mailgate.uark.edu [130.184.7.105]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21972 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by milkyway.uark.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27546; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:15:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 581I.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id KAA06282; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:16:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905171516.KAA06282@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: Steve Groff Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:15:58 +0000 Subject: Re: 2nd year N contribution on legumes Reply-to: steved@ncatark.uark.edu CC: sanet In-reply-to: <373F7EE9.12E177D4@epix.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 863 Hi Steve, Hairy vetch as a winter crop can accumulate 100-250 lbs N/acre. The amount of N fixed can vary from year to year or farm to farm due to environmental conditions such as good or poor establishment, good or poor biomass production, and those extra couple of weeks in the spring to fix N before the cover crop is killed. According to organic matter mineralization and decay series.... you can estimate half the total N will be available to the crop the first growing season... in the 2nd year you will get half again.. in the 3rd year half again.. Thus, if you had 200 lbs N/acre fixed by vetch: 100 lbs N/acre available 1st year 50 lbs N/acre available 2nd year 25 lbs N/acre available 3rd year On the other hand beans will only contribute 40-60 lbs N/acre if you harvest off the beans. Note: in comparison if plowed down as a green manure or top-killed as a mulch, that same soybean crop would contribute more than 100 lbs N/acre when killed at the peak biomass/flowering stage. So, the vetch prior to sweet corn had a lot more to kick in up front. Plus, sweet corn produces a tremendous amount of organic matter in comparison to beans. That organic matter is a significant contribution. You know, they say that cattleman are "grass farmers." Perhaps row crop & veggie farmers (especially no-till) could be called "worm farmers." In one case the end product is beef, but the way you get there is paying attention to grazing management and forage quality. In the other case the end product is a harvestable crop, but the way you get there is providing optimum conditions for worms and their associated banditos the microbial herd. What else is going on at the Groff farm worth hearing about? I heard you were able to cut down on fungicide applications for early blight on on tomatoes, because the no-till mulches cut down on rain splashing and diseases transmission. Steve Diver To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 12:08:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13098 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA01643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:33:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01619 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:37:22 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Farmers Part of the Global Warming Solution Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:37:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 864 -----Original Message----- From: ARS News Service [mailto:isnv@ars-grin.gov] Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 10:18 AM To: ARS News List Subject: Farmers Part of the Global Warming Solution NEWS RELEASE: Farmers Now Part of the Global Warming Solution as U.S. Agriculture Becomes Net Carbon Sink ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 17, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- WASHINGTON, May 17, 1999--Sometime in the past 15 years, American farmers turned an environmental corner, Agricultural Research Service Administrator Floyd Horn announced today. "A dramatic change in tillage techniques shifted U.S. farm soils from net carbon dioxide producers to net accumulators of carbon--in the form of valuable soil organic matter. This makes their soils more productive and part of the potential global warming solution, rather than part of the problem," Horn said. "American farmers have virtually abandoned the moldboard plow used to break open the American West." Horn said that Raymond R. Allmaras, a soil scientist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Research Service in St. Paul, Minn., made these findings after a thorough search of published reports and surveys for several major crops, comparing 1940 to 1990 conditions. "These reports showed that, in 1980, 75 to percent of American farmers were still using the plow. By 1993, a USDA survey showed that farmers used the moldboard plow on only 6 to 9 percent of corn, soybean, and wheat fields," Horn said. Horn said Allmaras used yield records to estimate amounts of crop parts that would be left after harvest. "He also used long-term tillage experiments conducted by himself and ARS colleagues nationwide. Dale E. Wilkins, an ARS agricultural engineer in Pendleton, Oregon, assisted him in the study," Horn said. Allmaras said that one of his tillage experiments showed there was no carbon accumulation in soils during a 10-year period when corn and soybeans were planted after annual plowing; another showed that abandoning the moldboard plow produced distinct increases in soil carbon in as little as 10 years. "The soil is storing more carbon that otherwise might be in the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, which is one of the greenhouse gases thought to cause global warming," Allmaras said. "The plow lifts and inverts an 8 to 12-inch slice of soil, and also buries stubble and other unharvested crop residue that was once on or near the surface. That places the residue deep in the plow layer where different microbes live. These microbes convert the residue to a form of carbon that readily converts to CO2, which can escape to the atmosphere," he said. As farmers put aside the plow, they leave more residue on the soil or within a depth of 4 inches, Allmaras said. "For example, corn and grain sorghum farmers are returning about twice as much residue than in 1940, and they are keeping it on or near the surface. Here, the residue readily decays to valuable organic matter, a more stable carbon compound and a key component of the black, fertile prairie soil originally broken open by the plow. The moldboard plow robbed the soils of the increased organic matter offered by the yield increases since 1940," Allmaras said. Allmaras said the dramatic shift away from the moldboard plow has altered the farm landscape in another equally broad way: the reduced tillage and increased organic matter in the soil has led to a looser, less erodible soil that holds more water for crops. "This noticeable shift in the soil is the main reason farmers have abandoned the moldboard plow," he said. Horn added that farmers too often are criticized for causing environmental problems. "Here's a case where they're definitely part of the solution, and for that, they deserve a pat on the back," he said. ---------- Scientific contact: Raymond R. Allmaras, ARS Soil and Water Management Research Unit, St. Paul, MN, phone (617) 625-1742, allmaras@soils.umn.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 12:52:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13785 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15537 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:57:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15446 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.49] (pa-ppp37.hevanet.com [204.119.60.49]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10059; Mon, 17 May 1999 08:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905171557.IAA10059@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:59:40 -0700 Subject: FW: Farmers Part of the Global Warming Solution From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 865 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Farmers Part of the Global Warming Solution Date: Mon, May 17, 1999, 7:18 AM NEWS RELEASE: Farmers Now Part of the Global Warming Solution as U.S. Agriculture Becomes Net Carbon Sink ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 17, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- WASHINGTON, May 17, 1999--Sometime in the past 15 years, American farmers turned an environmental corner, Agricultural Research Service Administrator Floyd Horn announced today. "A dramatic change in tillage techniques shifted U.S. farm soils from net carbon dioxide producers to net accumulators of carbon--in the form of valuable soil organic matter. This makes their soils more productive and part of the potential global warming solution, rather than part of the problem," Horn said. "American farmers have virtually abandoned the moldboard plow used to break open the American West." Horn said that Raymond R. Allmaras, a soil scientist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Research Service in St. Paul, Minn., made these findings after a thorough search of published reports and surveys for several major crops, comparing 1940 to 1990 conditions. "These reports showed that, in 1980, 75 to percent of American farmers were still using the plow. By 1993, a USDA survey showed that farmers used the moldboard plow on only 6 to 9 percent of corn, soybean, and wheat fields," Horn said. Horn said Allmaras used yield records to estimate amounts of crop parts that would be left after harvest. "He also used long-term tillage experiments conducted by himself and ARS colleagues nationwide. Dale E. Wilkins, an ARS agricultural engineer in Pendleton, Oregon, assisted him in the study," Horn said. Allmaras said that one of his tillage experiments showed there was no carbon accumulation in soils during a 10-year period when corn and soybeans were planted after annual plowing; another showed that abandoning the moldboard plow produced distinct increases in soil carbon in as little as 10 years. "The soil is storing more carbon that otherwise might be in the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, which is one of the greenhouse gases thought to cause global warming," Allmaras said. "The plow lifts and inverts an 8 to 12-inch slice of soil, and also buries stubble and other unharvested crop residue that was once on or near the surface. That places the residue deep in the plow layer where different microbes live. These microbes convert the residue to a form of carbon that readily converts to CO2, which can escape to the atmosphere," he said. As farmers put aside the plow, they leave more residue on the soil or within a depth of 4 inches, Allmaras said. "For example, corn and grain sorghum farmers are returning about twice as much residue than in 1940, and they are keeping it on or near the surface. Here, the residue readily decays to valuable organic matter, a more stable carbon compound and a key component of the black, fertile prairie soil originally broken open by the plow. The moldboard plow robbed the soils of the increased organic matter offered by the yield increases since 1940," Allmaras said. Allmaras said the dramatic shift away from the moldboard plow has altered the farm landscape in another equally broad way: the reduced tillage and increased organic matter in the soil has led to a looser, less erodible soil that holds more water for crops. "This noticeable shift in the soil is the main reason farmers have abandoned the moldboard plow," he said. Horn added that farmers too often are criticized for causing environmental problems. "Here's a case where they're definitely part of the solution, and for that, they deserve a pat on the back," he said. ---------- Scientific contact: Raymond R. Allmaras, ARS Soil and Water Management Research Unit, St. Paul, MN, phone (617) 625-1742, allmaras@soils.umn.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 13:02:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14032 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 13:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA25493 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:15:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25379 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 17 May 1999 12:19:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR CASE STUDIES Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:19:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA25396 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 866 SANet: I don't know anything about this group, but this looks like an opportunity to highlight sustainable solutions under the agriculture link at http://www.solutions-site.org Andy -----Original Message----- From: Bla P. Selendy [mailto:bela@selendy.com] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 1999 11:42 AM To: jselendy Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR CASE STUDIES ANNOUNCEMENT AND CALL FOR CASE STUDIES HORIZON Solutions Site Formal Launching at United Nations http://www.solutions-site.org An effort to better conditions throughout the world by finding what can be and is being done to help protect and improve life on earth, and making that information available for others to benefit, is underway. The interactive HORIZON Solutions Site at www.solutions-site.org provides readily accessible peer reviewed answers to problems in environment, health, population and development. Harvard and Yale universities, the International Development Research Centre of Canada, the United Nations Development Programme, Environment Programme, Population Fund, and UNICEF are collaborating with HORIZON on the Site. Participation in the Solutions Site is invited from individuals and institutions throughout the world. Case studies can be submitted directly from the Internet site. United Nations Development Programme Administrator, James Gustave Speth hosted a special event with an accompanying exhibit for the formal launching of the Solutions Site on April 14th at the United Nations. Mr. Speth praised HORIZON's twenty years of work with case studies on solutions and emphasized the importance of using the information technologies especially for developing countries and to empower poor communities to identify and achieve development goals. The case studies include information on the background of the problem being addressed; how and by whom the solution was initiated; how long it has been underway; how well it is working; constraining factors such as costs, limitations of materials; applicability and feasibility for replication locally, regionally, internationally; evaluation results, if any, and by whom the evaluation was conducted; photographs, graphic and other visual materials; and, resources and contacts for further information. HORIZON is providing opportunities for students, graduates, and faculty to participate in these important international endeavors. Many students may find that their thesis or research involves a project that would be a good candidate for possible inclusion in the Solutions Site, and others might find they would like to work with HORIZON as a summer intern or apply for a position at a regional base. Faculty might find their work applicable to share with the world through the Solutions Site or that they would like to use the Solutions Site as a tool for their students. As HORIZON states in its brochure: "It is not enough to chronicle the problems and provide random reports on successful efforts. There is a crucial need for carefully researched, documented and disseminated information about solutions. People need to know what can be and is being done to protect and improve life on earth and to have the knowledge to be able to replicate, all or in part, solutions to meet their own needs." Based at Harvard and Yale universities, and in Sweden, HORIZON Communications is an organization dedicated to fostering solutions to problems in the areas of environment, health, population and development. It does so by discovering successful problem-solving initiatives from all parts of the world in both high and low technology, documenting their validity and feasibility with the help of HORIZON's Scientific Review Board and other experts, and disseminating the information through HORIZON's international television series, One Second Before Sunrise, hosted and narrated by Lynn Redgrave, Sam Waterston and others, and multimedia materials, and the HORIZON Solutions Site. HORIZON also works on developing new initiatives that incorporate successful approaches and technologies and address common world problems. Principal Contact: Jo Yellis, Executive Director HORIZON Communications Yale Biology Department Tel: 203-432-6266 Fax: 203-432-6161 E-mail: jo.yellis@yale.edu Additional Contact: Janine M. H. Selendy HORIZON Communications Chairman and President Tel: 617-547-8932 Email: jselendy@aol.com Contact for Web-related Questions: Bela Selendy Web Administrator Selendy Communications Bckv. 5, 187 44 Tby, SWEDEN Tel: (46) 8 768-6015 Email: bela@selendy.com Web sites: http://www.yale.edu/horizon and http://www.solutions-site.org -- ...................... Selendy Communications http://www.selendy.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 15:06:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA18541 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:06:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA26608 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:10:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sophri.oxy.edu (root@sophri.cc.oxy.edu [134.69.3.111]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA26580 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 14:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from temp1.ipac.oxy.edu (ipac-something1.ipac.oxy.edu [134.69.11.79]) by sophri.oxy.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA02306; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990517110419.00858910@pop.oxy.edu> X-Sender: ehiggins@pop.oxy.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:04:19 -0700 To: comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, arcudi@compusverve.com, akorn@ibm.net, anand40@hotmail.com, curleya@serinocoyne.com, ASFisher@aol.com, gottlieb@oxy.edu, justfood@igc.apc.org, lteusink@yahoo.com, dmichon@juno.com, coaxil@aol.com, luchasan@aol.com, mofford@oxy.edu, mkielty@hotmail.com, mm@oxy.edu, hfrc3@earthlink.net, milstein@pipeline.com, lauratich@aol.com, mlewey2@aol.com, heyangy@aol.com, captaindog@prodigy.net, bnjgold@ix.netcom.com, abrown@oxy.edu, asmith@creative.net, mteusink@yahoo.com, daynak83@hotmail.com, abondoc@mindspring.com, shellworks@mindspring.com, ben@windowbox.com From: Erika Higgins Subject: thanking bette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 867 Hello all - I have received many replies to the article I sent out about the recent change in the status of 112 NYC gardens last week. Thoughts about the hard work of many, and the money of a few, as well as the struggle that continues. Although there are many issues at stake, including many worrying about setting a precedent that a rich person has to "save" community gardens, and the fact that many gardens are still in danger, most everyone has expressed a desire to thank Bette Midler for her involvement. I have spoken with her publicist, who will forward a letter of thanks, which I would like to write, taken in everyone's ideas and comments, and then sign - from community gardeners nationwide. If you have specific thoughts you would like in the letter, please send them to me by Wednesday, and also send me your name and location, if you would like that included too. I plan to send some flowers from my plot the Echo Park community garden in LA. These are my thoughts - add to them as you wish... Erika Higgins ------------------------------- Erika Higgins ehiggins@oxy.edu 323-259-1426 Community Food Security Project Occidental College To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 16:57:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA23640 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA17999 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:06:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.compy-net.com (host.dex-net.com [194.184.44.118]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA17728 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qualsiasi [195.223.189.63] by mail2.compy-net.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A5FC7200DA; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:03:08 +03d0 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990517214607.00850100@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Sender: XD026Y@mail2.compy-net.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:46:07 +0200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: MV Subject: Re: GMO and cars Cc: dmhinds@acnet.net In-Reply-To: <199905152054.QAA03813@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 868 At 16.54 15/05/99 -0400, Douglas M. Hinds wrote: >From: "Douglas M. Hinds" Hi Douglas, I hope the three events went fine. You said a lot of right things. Overall the biological and ecological integrity are quite interesting issues to investigate. What do you think about this: as humans, we have already faced so many foreign genetic combination in our history (2-3 million years or so of evolution) that new combinations (as GMOs) can do nothing to us. I'd like to have your comment. Sincerely, Maurizio "Be part of the solution, not the problem." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 16:57:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA23652 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA17737 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:06:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.compy-net.com (host.dex-net.com [194.184.44.118]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA17232 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qualsiasi [195.223.189.63] by mail2.compy-net.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A5F67200DA; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:03:02 +03d0 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990517195243.008425e0@mail2.compy-net.com> X-Sender: XD026Y@mail2.compy-net.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:52:43 +0200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: MV Subject: Re: GMOs and cars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 869 Steve Groff wrote: >You have made a very good point. I find it amazing how quickly the responses to >this post diverted back to the details of the issue while ignoring this analogy. >We are just in kindergarten with GMO technology, just like we were with other >advances that we now use. Let's review some important impacts that agriculture >has experienced over the years and how we have dealt with them. >[..] >Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Thank you, Steve. I really appreciate that you and few other people, posting to me privately, has catch my point. I really like this example on cars made by Isaac Asimov. He concluded saying that people, at the end, do not ask for banning the cars, but for having them more *safe*... I like "Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.", I hope you let me used it sometimes. Sincerely, Maurizio "Be part of the solution, not the problem." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 18:12:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25212 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA19012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA18986 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24257; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16198; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:14:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:14:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Diane Cooner cc: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: gardens in NYC In-Reply-To: <373F96F2.CBD7AAF8@wclynx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 870 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net On Sun, 16 May 1999, Diane Cooner wrote: > Just like I'm sure the local neighborhoods in NYC liked having fresh > food available where there used to be broken glass and trash. > I think the gardens in NYC were better ideals, but we've both lost the > same thing. > Choice. Not only that, the bastards are taxing us for it. > Take a stand, people! Show your support for free spaces and LOCAL, > COMMUNITY CHOICES. AMEN! Seconded here most emphatically! I grew up two doors away from Betty Smith who wrote the award winning novel, "A Tree Grows In Brooklyn". I am sure she contributed in some positive way to my upbringing. Her yard was a garden of Eden. Betty of a byegone era and Bette of the present and future, artists linked through time in their efforts to better the lives of New Yorkers and many others elsewhere. Lawrence London Chapel Hill, NC, USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 18:15:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25327 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA29019 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:35:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nt-01.techplus.com (nt-01.escape.ca [204.112.144.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA28949 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glen.techplus.com ([207.161.170.23]) by nt-01.techplus.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42902U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA617 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:35:43 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990517163947.00976db0@agrimark.com> X-Sender: agri@agrimark.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:40:29 -0500 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: agri@agrimark.com (agri@agrimark.com) Subject: RE: New Site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 871 I wanted to e-mail you on a new web site that has just been launched. http://www.produceworld.com Stop by and take a look around. Lots of stuff here for the produce industry including classified adds, chat rooms, import export, etc.and I thought some of you may be interested. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 18:43:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25892 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA12082 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:03:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA12072 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 18:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.131]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA10683 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 17:04:04 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990517164016.006a2d40@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 16:40:16 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Chilean nitrate (was Sodium Nitrate) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA12073 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 872 Dear Sanet, I'm sorry, but the following is wrong on two counts. First of all, Chilean nitrate is not "natural geological deposit" but rather the bird guano collected from islands off the coast of Chile. It is so concentrated that its primary use was in the fabrication of gunpowder, until the First World War, when, threatened with being cut off from its "natural" source, Germany invented the Haber process to fix nitrogen from the air (the basis of the synthetic fertilizer industry). Secondly, I don't know of any organic certifier that has a "a default allowance for natural substances along with a default rejection of synthetic substances." This is ridiculous. Organic certifiers evaluate substances in terms of their effects on natural agroecosystem processes or on the quality of the food produced. Some synthetic substances are allowed and some "natural" substances,as you note, are banned. Among the latter is Chilean nitrates. As Loren states, their effect on the soil is virtually the same as synthetic sodium nitrate--e.g. negative for soil microbiology in general and negative for the environment due to excess N runoff. I am not aware of the "20% rule". IFOAM carried out a study on the reasons for the ban and has a publication explaining this in detail. Regards, >Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:14:09 -0700 >From: Loren Muldowney >Subject: Re: question: sodium nitrate > >Rob Fetter wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I need some info on sodium nitrate (aka Chilean nitrate). I notice it's >> allowed by some organic certification programs and prohibited by others. >> When certifiers prohibit it, they cite that it has no long-term positive >> effects on soil building (unlike some other fertilizers) and has high >> sodium content, which is generally bad. Why, then, is it allowed in some >> organic programs? What are the particular advantages sodium nitrate >> offers? > >Rob, I am not an organic certifier. Nevertheless, I think my response >is correct. "Chilean nitrate" is a natural geologic deposit, mined and >used in an unrefined condition. Therefore it is "natural" and some >organic certifiers historically have a default allowance for natural >substances along with a default rejection of synthetic substances. >Other certifiers have refined their system and will disallow natural >stuff for reasons which fit certain criteria. So nicotine and >strychnine are disallowed by some because of their toxicity, and nuts to >their being natural. > >Long term use of chilean nitrate would have the same negative soil >effects as long term use of a synthetic sodium nitrate, so many >certifiers have phased it out and others restrict its use to 20% of the >nitrogen requirement of the crop or other schemes. All are dealing with >the fact that while it is natural, it isn't so good in the long term. > >I don't personally know anyone who uses it. > >best regards from NJ, > >Loren Muldowney > > >> Thanks! >> >> Rob >> >> ***************** >> T. Robert Fetter >> Research Assistant >> Dept. of Resource Economics >> Draper Hall >> University of Massachusetts >> Amherst, MA 01003 >> phone 413-545-5716 >> fax 413-545-5853 >> trf@student.umass.edu > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 17 22:59:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01853 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA22191 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:23:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA22089 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.68]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 21:27:39 -0500 Message-ID: <37407E18.29CF31B9@cillnet.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:37:44 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: [Fwd: How do you recall GMOs?] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A5BA24B1F767B3244F4816EB" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 873 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A5BA24B1F767B3244F4816EB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to give an example of doubling, take a penny the first day of a month then double it every day for 30 days I think you will be surprised how much money this adds up to be. Floyd --------------A5BA24B1F767B3244F4816EB Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu ([152.1.45.61]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 06:41:02 -0500 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA11912 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 04:23:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from rufino2.gw.iphil.net (IDENT:mail@rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA11862 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 04:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id QAA24068; Mon, 17 May 1999 16:06:32 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id PAA07016; Mon, 17 May 1999 15:33:37 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199905170733.PAA07016@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 17 May 99 15:34:01 Subject: How do you recall GMOs? To: sgroff@epix.net Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk >1. Tillage. Turning over the soil to prepare it for planting becam >2. Pesticides. These came on the scene 50 or so years ago. They we >3. Internal combustion engine. This came on the scene full force i >By now I'm sure you can see my point. GMO's have their share of pre >potential for a positive impact on agriculture is worth visiting. Ok, let's add the airplane to the list. Let's add nuclear too. All these things above, we can continue to debate, and should the overwhelming majority decide they are bad for humanity, we can all agree to phase them out. The radioactivity and the nonbiodegradables are quite bad, because it will take a long, long time for them to dissipate/break-down. At least, they eventually will... Not so with GMOs. With GMOs, we measure not half-lifes but doubling times. As they double, the risk associated with them also doubles. Given enough time, even the smallest non-zero risk if it doubles repeatedly will eventually reach near certainty. None of the scientists I've asked have replied satisfactorily to my question: if we realize in the future that the harm the GMOs pose is unacceptable, how do you propose to recall them? Is there anybody here who'd like to answer this question? Roberto Verzola To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------A5BA24B1F767B3244F4816EB-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 00:13:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA03044 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 00:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA28996 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:33:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA28868 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA20688 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EAVDK36J; Mon, 17 May 1999 23:32:34 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:47:02 -0700 Subject: re: Lambsquarter Greens Message-ID: <19990517.202000.3502.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,13,18-19 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 874 Rich asked if others also enjoy lambsquarter greens. I, too, enjoy lambsquarters. I grew up eating them on my parents' organic farm in Kansas and was delighted to find them growing here in the Arizona desert. I agree, they can become a pesky weed, but they don't have much of a chance in my garden (if nothing else beats me to them, I eat them). The winter of '97-98 was unusually wet here, and the lambsquarters came up by the jillions in our uncultivated area. When last summer's rains arrived, the lambsquarters were already established so the pig weeds didn't have a chance except in the garden where I had eaten the lambsquarters. This past winter was VERY dry and lambsquarters came up only in my irrigated garden. Even there, I had lots of competition until I improved my fencing to keep the hungry cottontails out. With no lambsquarters growing in our wild area, I expect jillions of pig weeds (which are also delicious) with our summer rains this year. Both are best when the leaves are small and tender. I think of them as spinach that I don't have to pamper. With lambsquarters as a cool season crop that extends well into the summer and pig weed as a warm season crop that lasts until frost, I can generally count on greens even when my chard, beets, and spinach are between crops. --Edna ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 03:35:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA04982 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 03:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA00682 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 02:42:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA00586 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 02:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:41:17 -0500 Message-ID: <199905180139380140.003E628D@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <19990517152151.11165.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990517152151.11165.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 01:39:38 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Amy Anderson" , amani@wclynx.com Cc: ehiggins@oxy.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, owner-comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, arcudi@compusverve.com, akorn@ibm.net, curleya@serinocoyne.com, ASFisher@aol.com, gottlieb@oxy.edu, justfood@igc.apc.org, lteusink@yahoo.com, dmichon@juno.com, coaxil@aol.com, luchasan@aol.com, mofford@oxy.edu, mkielty@hotmail.com, mm@oxy.edu, hfrc3@earthlink.net, milstein@pipeline.com, lauratich@aol.com, mlewey2@aol.com, heyangy@aol.com, captaindog@prodigy.net, bnjgold@ix.netcom.com, abrown@oxy.edu, asmith@creative.net, mteusink@yahoo.com, daynak83@hotmail.com, abondoc@mindspring.com, shellworks@mindspring.com, ben@windowbox.com Subject: Re: gardens in NYC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id CAA00596 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 875 On 17/05/99 at 8:21 AM Amy Anderson wrote: >Shouldn't Guliani get any credit for compromising and agreeing to sell the gardens to Bette and TPL at a below-market price? Maybe some (not a lot). I'd just like to see her run for mayor. She'd probably win and do a good job. DH >>From: Diane Cooner >>To: "Douglas M. Hinds" >>CC: Erika Higgins , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, owner-comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, arcudi@compusverve.com, akorn@ibm.net, anand40@hotmail.com, curleya@serinocoyne.com, ASFisher@aol.com, gottlieb@oxy.edu, justfood@igc.apc.org, lteusink@yahoo.com, dmichon@juno.com, coaxil@aol.com, luchasan@aol.com, mofford@oxy.edu, mkielty@hotmail.com, mm@oxy.edu, hfrc3@earthlink.net, milstein@pipeline.com, lauratich@aol.com, mlewey2@aol.com, heyangy@aol.com, captaindog@prodigy.net, bnjgold@ix.netcom.com, abrown@oxy.edu, asmith@creative.net, mteusink@yahoo.com, daynak83@hotmail.com, abondoc@mindspring.com, shellworks@mindspring.com, ben@windowbox.com >>Subject: Re: gardens in NYC >>Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:43:59 -0700 >> >>That's the best news I've had all year. Giuliani should still be taken to task for even >>considering tearing the hearts out of these neighborhoods by clearing out their gardens. >>diane >> >>"Douglas M. Hinds" wrote: >> >> > Is Bette Midler a New Yorker? And more importantly: Will she run for Mayor >> > next time around? >> > >> > DH >> > >> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> > >> > On 13/05/99 at 1:37 PM Erika Higgins wrote: >> > >> > >A Victory for all gardeners! Thank you divine Miss M!!! >> > > >> > >(from the New York Times - 5/13/99) >> > >A day before the Giuliani administration was to auction off city-owned >> > >lots that had been transformed into community gardens, the performer Bette >> > >Midler had her private conservation organization agree to buy dozens of the >> > >less desirable parcels, providing the final financing to preserve all 112 >> > >gardens that were set for sale. >> > > >> > >The 11th-hour announcement ended a long-running dispute between city >> > >officials who said the parcels were ripe for sale and residents who viewed >> > >themselves as gardeners tending to verdant oases in neighborhoods of >> > >concrete and steel. But the fate of more than 600 other lots that were not >> > >part of the auction remains unclear. >> > > >> > >Nevertheless, the $1.2 million purchase of 51 lots by the New York >> > >Restoration Project -- arranged by a singer and actress better known for >> > >her engaging flamboyance than for her diplomatic skills -- provided a vital >> > >piece in the city's negotiations with environmental groups. >> > > >> > >The offer cleared the way for another conservation group, the Trust for >> > >Public Land, to buy the rest of the 112 parcels for $3 million, a figure >> > >that included an additional $1 million from Ms. Midler's organization. >> > >> > That makes her contribution the major one, then. 2.2 million vs 2 from the Trust. >> > >> > >According to the deal, the two organizations are to work out plans to turn >> > >over the properties to the community groups that tend to the gardens. If >> > >the properties are ever used for anything other than gardens, ownership >> > >will revert to the city, said Deputy Mayor Randy Levine, who helped in the >> > >negotiations. >> > >> > What a no good bastard. If the lots were paid for, who the hell are they to stick >> > their noses into it (the gardens are fine, but why lock into just the current view of >> > collective future needs)? >> > >> > >------------------------------- >> > >Erika Higgins >> > >ehiggins@oxy.edu >> > >323-259-1426 >> > >Community Food Security Project >> > >Occidental College >> > >> > Douglas M. Hinds >> > Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) >> > (Center for Community and Rural Development) >> > Petronilo Lopez No. 73 >> > Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO >> > e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx >> > >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 10:15:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09950 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15795 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:09:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailbox.iwaynet.net (IDENT:root@mailbox.iwaynet.net [198.30.29.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15769 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.244.49.25] (iport325.iwaynet.net [206.244.49.25]) by mailbox.iwaynet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA20904; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:08:01 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:16:01 -0400 To: FarmerAdele@prodigy.net, foxrun1@bright.net, Bessman@knownet.net, BRBF@compulinx-net.net (Chapis Kenneth), cwalker@THF.COM, PorChuck@aol.com, cvof@iquest.net, stinner.2@osu.edu, Hall.16@osu.edu, wool@willard-oh.com, huelsman.16@osu.edu, kdix@bright.net, lferguson@erinet.com, farmermarg@orwell.net, skinner@ssti.org, cote.1@osu.edu, hogan.1@osu.edu, Silvrcf@aol.com, bierman.2@osu.edu, rzewnicki.1@osu.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, SUSAG-TEAM@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu, jack@greenlink.org, Secenter@aol.com, SSears7547@cs.com From: oeffa@mailbox.iwaynet.net (Sean McGovern) Subject: OEFFA ORganic Standards Available via web. Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 876 ****Please Excuse Cross Postings**** Dear Friends: Organic Standards for the Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association are now available on line at www.greenlink.org/oeffa. It is our intent to provide this information in a more accessible manner for farmers, researchers, and Extension Representatives. Application forms are still available via OEFFA for $12.50 at the address below. Sincerely, Sean McGovern Ohio Ecological Food and Farm Association PO Box 82234 Columbus Ohio 43202 (ph) 614/267-3663 (fx) 614/267-4763 email: oeffa@iwaynet.net Visit OEFFA on the World Wide Web at www.greenlink.org/oeffa For OCIA/OEFFA Organic Certification services in Ohio, call OEFFA Certification Coordinator, Sylvia Upp at 419/853-4060 or fax 419/853-3022 For OEFFA's Newsletter Submissions and Ads, call Newsletter Editor Holly Harman Fackler at 419/687-4761, fax at 419/687-8272, or email . Shipping Only- Parhelion Building, OEFFA, 2232 N Summit St, Columbus, Ohio 43202 "Serenity is the offspring of appreciation, not its progenitor." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 11:52:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12135 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02426 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:49:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from MailHost.StVincent.Edu (IS.StVincent.Edu [199.234.124.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02407 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from admin.stvincent.edu (dnelson@stvincent.edu) by MailHost.StVincent.Edu (8.9.1a/SATSYS) with ESMTP id KAA01928 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stvincent.edu (Host-199-234-126-58.StVincent.Edu [199.234.126.58]) by admin.stvincent.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id KAA21317 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37417D81.59B0A3A7@stvincent.edu> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:47:30 -0400 From: Dean Nelson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Henry A. Wallace Institute Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 877 I just got a packet in the mail from the Henry W. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture. They seem to be pretty well heeled with major contributers being the Kellogg Foundation and Pew Charitable Trust. Is this a lobbying group like Concerned Citizens for the Environment which is a front group for chemical manufacturers? I really hate having to be so cynical, but I would hate worse being taken for a ride. Dean To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 12:27:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12881 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 12:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA17985 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:25:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from NIH2WAAD (smtp4.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17909 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:24:49 -0400 Received: from [216.192.111.9] (mid-qbu-nqn-vty77.as.wcom.net [216.192.106.77]) by dub-img-ims-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.7) with ESMTP id LAA29660; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: LawsonValentine@pop.site1.csi.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199905180139380140.003E628D@acnet.net> References: <19990517152151.11165.qmail@hotmail.com> <199905180139380140.003E628D@acnet.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:22:12 -0500 To: "Douglas M. Hinds" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, anand40@hotmail.com From: Lucy Miller Subject: Re: gardens in NYC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 878 No, Guiliani doesn't deserve any credit. He only accepted the deal after a judge's injunction forced him to put off the auction to at least next fall, and the city would have had to jump through plenty of hoops to do it by then. Our mayor doesn't do anything he doesn't want to do (including give out routine information on the actions of his administration to other elected officials) without an injunction, subpoena, or other court order. He couldn't sell to the Trust for Public Land alone without losing major face at that point, since he had just turned down their offer the previous week. Bette saved his butt, and the gardens into the bargain. If you can get hold of it, Saturday's Op-Art on the NYT's Op-Ed page tells the whole story in 6 frames. And oh my yes, I'd love to see Bette run for mayor. (Far more than any other national celebrity currently threatening to run for a NY office, naming no names.) >On 17/05/99 at 8:21 AM Amy Anderson wrote: > > >Shouldn't Guliani get any credit for compromising and agreeing to >sell the gardens to Bette and TPL at a below-market price? > >Maybe some (not a lot). I'd just like to see her run for mayor. >She'd probably win and do a good job. > >DH To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 14:15:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA15209 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA04837 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:03:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f136.hotmail.com [207.82.251.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA04816 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21814 invoked by uid 0); 18 May 1999 17:02:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990518170244.21813.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.112 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:02:44 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.112] From: "J. S." To: dmhinds@acnet.net Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: GMO and cars Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:02:44 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 879 The scary things is that YES, THEY CAN!!!!!! and that is what a great many biotechnologists are doing as I write this...what cannot necessarily be done is cutting and pasting genes without HUGE and primarily not known/understood ecological ramifications. >From: "Douglas M. Hinds" >To: "MV" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: GMO and cars >Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 06:44:08 -0600 > >Basically, genes that were developed over millenniums in one evolutionary >line can not necessarily be snipped out and pasted in another organism >with different origins and (perhaps), destiny. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 14:39:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18925 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24786 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:42:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f86.hotmail.com [207.82.250.192]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA24733 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 89065 invoked by uid 0); 18 May 1999 17:42:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990518174213.89064.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.112 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:42:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.112] From: "J. S." To: dnelson@stvincent.edu Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Henry A. Wallace Institute Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:42:13 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 880 Absolutely not! The only reason that the Wallace Institute has big name funders is that it is run by Henry A Wallace's daughter and was founded after he developed ALS which he believed he developed from over exposure to chemicals in his flower gardening, ( and in the sprirt that he regretted alot of the progress he started with pioneer corn); hence it is just defacto funding from the system where a small bunch of people run a lot of things in the world, Jean Douglas (his daughter) is a dynamic woman absoulutely committed to sustainable ag _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 14:49:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19121 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA26138 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:46:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f98.hotmail.com [207.82.250.217]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA26042 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 13:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 57998 invoked by uid 0); 18 May 1999 17:45:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19990518174530.57996.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.112 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 18 May 1999 10:45:30 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.112] From: "J. S." To: LawsonValentine@csi.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: gardens in NYC Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:45:30 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 881 HERE HERE! Guiliani doesn't deserve an inkling of credit; do not forget as most of us virginians never will, that he is the man that told us we should be not only happy but thankful to take NYC's trash as a boon to our economy and as doing our part to support our tourism there >From: Lucy Miller >To: "Douglas M. Hinds" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, >anand40@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: gardens in NYC >Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:22:12 -0500 > >No, Guiliani doesn't deserve any credit. He only accepted the deal >after a judge's injunction forced him to put off the auction to at >least next fall, and the city would have had to jump through plenty >of hoops to do it by then. Our mayor doesn't do anything he doesn't >want to do (including give out routine information on the actions of >his administration to other elected officials) without an injunction, >subpoena, or other court order. He couldn't sell to the Trust for >Public Land alone without losing major face at that point, since he >had just turned down their offer the previous week. > >Bette saved his butt, and the gardens into the bargain. If you can >get hold of it, Saturday's Op-Art on the NYT's Op-Ed page tells the >whole story in 6 frames. > >And oh my yes, I'd love to see Bette run for mayor. (Far more than >any other national celebrity currently threatening to run for a NY >office, naming no names.) > >>On 17/05/99 at 8:21 AM Amy Anderson wrote: >> >> >Shouldn't Guliani get any credit for compromising and agreeing to >>sell the gardens to Bette and TPL at a below-market price? >> >>Maybe some (not a lot). I'd just like to see her run for mayor. >>She'd probably win and do a good job. >> >>DH > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 15:21:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19847 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA14089 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:21:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pa.mother.com (root@pa.mother.com [198.93.80.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13901 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.104.33.207] (l1p15.dav.mother.com [207.104.33.207]) by pa.mother.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA11246 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:20:57 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:20:57 -0700 X-Sender: caff@mail.mother.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Community Alliance w/ Family Farmers Subject: Grant Writer Position Available Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 882 Please post/circulate this job announcement. THANKS GRANT WRITER POSITION AVAILABLE The Community Alliance with Family Farmers (CAFF) - a non-profit based in Davis, California - is working to build a movement of rural and urban communities to foster family-scale agriculture that cares for the land, sustains local economies and promotes social justice. CAFF seeks a highly motivated individual with grant writing experience to coordinate grantseeking. DESCRIPTION OF THE POSITION: The Grant Writer oversees the development and production of grant proposals, government contracts and narrative reports to funders. Responsibilities include writing and coordinating the editing of grants, contracts and reports; identifying new sources of funding; developing and maintaining relationships with funders and maintaining funding files. This is a full-time position, based in the Davis, California office. QUALIFICATIONS: Excellent writing, editing and organizational skills are required. Previous experience in fundraising and grantwriting desired. Ability to work both independently and as a member of a team. Ability to work well under deadlines. Proficiency in MS Word, Pagemaker and Excel. Willingness to travel. Familiarity with sustainable agriculture and rural community issues would be useful. SALARY AND BENEFITS: Starting salary is $24,000 - $30,000, depending on experience. CAFF provides a benefits package that includes three weeks of paid vacation per year, personal leave, health insurance, holidays and flexible scheduling. CAFF is committed to recruiting, training, developing and promoting employees on the basis of individual qualifications, competence and merit. TO APPLY: Call 530-756-8518, ext. 10 or email caff@caff.org to request an information packet and application. CAFF's policy is that all persons are entitled to equal employment opportunity regardless of race, color, religion, gender, marital status or sexual orientation. Community Alliance with Family Farmers P.O. Box 363 Davis, California 95617 530-756-8518 (phone) 530-756-7857 (fax) caff@caff.org http://www.caff.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 15:34:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20153 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20614 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:39:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nyct.net (bsd4.nyct.net [204.141.86.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20569 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (ppp55.nyct.net [207.198.184.55]) by nyct.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12331 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:39:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sharon@nyct.net) Message-ID: <3741B3EA.6C88@nyct.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:39:38 -0400 From: Sharon Reply-To: sharon@nyct.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: NYC Gardens Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 883 Incidentally, Bette Midler, through her foundation, has been funding improvements and maintenance for the parks on the northern end of Manhattan for several years now, parks that do not have well-heeled supporters living on their borders. As someone who uses those parks, I have felt much appreciation for her efforts. The Parks Dept. budget has been repeatedly slashed under this mayor as well as previous ones. Sharon I believe in recycling: Mayor Giuliani for Compost To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 15:48:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20443 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA28613 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:55:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA28502 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu (root@franc.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06557 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Liebhardt (ars97.ucdavis.edu [169.237.82.97]) by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.11) with SMTP id LAA17114; Tue, 18 May 1999 11:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905181854.LAA17114@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: fzliebha@mailbox.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:56:11 -0700 To: Dean Nelson From: Bill Liebhardt Subject: Re: Henry A. Wallace Institute Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <37417D81.59B0A3A7@stvincent.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 884 At 10:47 AM 5/18/99 -0400, you wrote: >I just got a packet in the mail from the Henry W. Wallace Institute for >Alternative Agriculture. They seem to be pretty well heeled with major >contributers being the Kellogg Foundation and Pew Charitable Trust. Is >this a lobbying group like Concerned Citizens for the Environment which >is a front group for chemical manufacturers? I really hate having to be >so cynical, but I would hate worse being taken for a ride. Dean, this is a group that works on agricultural policy and related issues from a sustainable agriculture perspective. They are dedicated, hard working, honest people and you will not be taken for a ride. I was on their board for six years. I am telling you this so that you have some sense of my experience with them. They are not deep in cash and funding for them is usually a problem. If all groups were as ethical as the Henry A. Wallace Institute the world would be a much better place. Bill > >Dean > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 16:02:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20764 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08101 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:11:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA07768 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21216 invoked from network); 18 May 1999 19:11:18 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-44.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.216) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 18 May 1999 19:11:18 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990518145718.0097c540@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:10:47 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: Henry A. Wallace Institute In-Reply-To: <37417D81.59B0A3A7@stvincent.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 885 Dean Nelson inquires about the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture. The Wallace Institute is a policy analysis, research, and education organization. It was founded in 1983 by Garth Youngberg, with the support of Henry Wallace's daughter, Jean Wallace Douglas, and other members of the Wallace family. Among its contributions to sustainable agriculture is the well-respected American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, a refereed journal that publishes research papers on sustainable agriculture and food policy. It was the Wallace Institute that took on Dennis Avery recently, challenging Avery's distortion of statistics from the Centers for Disease Control to make it appear that organic food is harmful to your health. The Wallace Institute most emphatically is not "a front group for chemical manufacturers." I suggest you visit the institute's Web site at www.hawaii.org for more information. Standard disclaimers do not apply. I proudly serve on the Wallace Institute's board of directors. Cass Peterson www.flickerville.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 16:27:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA22464 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14455 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:29:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay.interim.iamworld.net (relay.interim.iamworld.net [204.91.241.82]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14339 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pck01 (1Cust73.tnt1.tco2.da.uu.net [153.34.240.73]) by relay.interim.iamworld.net (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA103128; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:28:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990518150908.006ff70c@pop.iamdigex.net> X-Sender: 10005850@pop.iamdigex.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:09:08 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Elizabeth Higgins Subject: Re: Henry A. Wallace Institute (response) Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <19990518174213.89064.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 886 Just to clear up a few questions and inaccuracies that have been raised in this thread - 1. The Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture is not a front for the ag chemical industry (or anyone else for that matter). 2. The Institute was founded in 1983 by Garth Youngberg as the Institute for Alternative Agriculture. The H. A. Wallace name was added later to honor Jean Wallace Douglas' (Henry Wallace's daughter) support of the Institute. Garth Youngberg is the Executive Director of the Institute. 3. The bulk of our funding comes from foundations (Pew, Kellogg, Wallace Genetic Foundation and others) who are long time supporters of sustainable agriculture. The rest comes from individual doners. Please refer to our webpage www.hawiaa.org for more information about the Wallace Institute, reports that we have authored, and current projects. Elizabeth Higgins, Assistant Director Agriculture Policy Project Henry A.Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 17:02:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA23213 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA04766 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:12:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA04734 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 18 May 1999 16:15:55 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Ann Carey'" Subject: Public Consultations on Agricultural Trade Issues Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:15:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 887 FORWARDED: The formatting on the table is a bit off, but please excuse and I hope it is still quite useable. the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) invites you to participate in a series of Public Consultations on Agricultural Trade Issues to assist US preparations for the upcoming World Trade Organization (WTO) Negotiations on Agriculture Both USDA and the Office of the US Trade Representative (USTR) will hold 11 public listening sessions to solicit public comments, outline general approaches, and share ideas about critical trade issues, such has market access, export subsidies, tariff reductions, internal support, state trading enterprises, labor issues, natural resources issues, environmental issues, and trade concerns relating to products using new technologies. The advice of farmers, ranchers, processors, exporters, and consumers will be critical in establishing US agricultural trade objectives and goals for the upcoming WTO Ministers' Meeting in Seattle in late November, and for the ensuing WTO trade negotiations. Listening sessions are scheduled for Winter Haven, FL [June 4]; St. Paul, MN [June 7]; Memphis, TN [ June 16]; Indianapolis, IN [June 24]; Sacramento, CA [[June 29]; Pullman, WA [June 30]; Austin, TX [July 8]; Burlington, VT [July 19}; and Newark, DE [July 23]. Listening sessions are also planned for Des Moines, IA [July 12] and Bozeman, MT [July 23]. In order to appear before the USDA-USTR panel, interested persons must register with their State Departments of Agriculture for the regional sessions. Written questions and comments will be accepted in writing from those individuals who cannot attend the listening sessions. Comments must be received no later than July 26 and can be e-mailed to: agsec@usda.gov, or mailed to: US Department of Agriculture, Trade Policy Comments, Mail Stop 9920, 1400 Independence Avenue, SW, Washington, DC 20250-9920. For more Information, contact Marlene Phillips, Foreign Agricultural Service Outreach Office, at (phone) 202-720-0103 or phillipsms@fas.usda.gov. Also, check the Foreign Agricultural Service (FAS) Home Page at: http://www.fas.usda.gov., Look under "Upcoming Events". Locations, Dates, and Contacts for the WTO Listening Sessions States/ Location Regions Date Site Contact Phone ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Winter Haven, Florida June 4 Nora Mayo Will Bussey 850-488-3022 FL Hall FL Dept. of Food and Agr. busseyw@doacs.state.fl.us St. Paul, MN, ND, June 7 Holiday Inn, Darla Riley 651-282-5140 MN SD, WI St. Paul E. MN Dept. of MN Agriculture Memphis, TN, GA, June 16 Agri-Center Joe Gaines 615-837-5160 TN KY, NC, SC International TN Dept. of MS, AR Agriculture Indianapolis, IN, OH, June 24 IN State Julia Wickard 317-232-8778 IN MI, IL, Fair Indianapolis WV Dept. of Agr. Sacramento, CA, HI, June 29 CA Dept. Majorie Beazer 916-654-0462 CA AZ of Food & mbeazer@cdfa.ca.gov Agr. Pullman, WA, ID, June 30 TBD Lisa Schumaker 360-902-1926 WA OR, AK WA Dept. of Agr. Austin, TX, OK, July 8 The TX Dawn DeBerry 512-475-1615 TX LA, NM State Capitol TX Dept. of Agr. Des Moines, IA, MO, July 12 TBD Joan Kiernan 515-281-5323 IA KS, NE IA Dept. of Agr. Burlington, VT, NY, July 19 TBD Theresa Doyle 802-828-2430 VT ME, MA, VT Dept. of Agr. NH, CT, RI Bozeman, MT, WY, July 23 TBD MT Dept. of Agr. 406-444-3144 MT CO, NV, UT Newark, DE, NJ, July 23 U. of DE Brenda Minor 302-739-4811 DE PA, VA, MD DE Dept. of Agr. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 17:46:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24229 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA29799 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:10:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA29706 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id QAA52640 (8.9.1/50); Tue, 18 May 1999 16:10:24 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990518002008.006f2748@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 00:20:08 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: re: Wallace Institute, Kellogg, Pew Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 888 I also want to write the praises of the Wallace Institute, Kellogg and Pew. Garth Youngberg, the Institute's director, has steadfastly worked on behalf of organic and sustainable farmers since I first crossed paths with him in the early 80s. Garth (who plans to retire soon) has hired a talented and dedicated staff to keep track of cutting edge policy relevant to sustainable agriculture and make sure that those of us working with the Midwest Sustainable Agriculture Working Group and other SAWGs are kept appraised of the DC scene. His staff includes Kate Clancy, food systems researcher; Elizabeth Higgins, formerly of MSAWG's DC office and working in part on whole farm planning issues; Kathleen Merrigan, formerly on Sen. Leahy's staff and working on organic issues (she may have left or be on sabatical now). Kellogg and Pew fund a lot of very important work in the sustainable agriculture movement, in addition to supporting the Wallace Institute. Their projects include the Integrated Food and Farming Systems project - 17 or so wonderful projects spread out around the country, endowed sustainable ag chairs at various Universities, a five-state project to promote pesticide reduction, food system projects around the country, and CSARE, a consortium of university faculty around the country who are committed to sustainable agriculture research and education. Without foundations like Kellogg and Pew, we would be hard-pressed to gain the momentum necessary to achieve our sustainability goals. Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 18:21:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA24990 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA18860 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:45:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA18804 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.154] (ke-ppp04.hevanet.com [198.5.254.154]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08955; Tue, 18 May 1999 14:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905182144.OAA08955@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:47:33 -0700 Subject: FW: New Wheat Variety to Help Farmers Fight Scab From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 889 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Wheat Variety to Help Farmers Fight Scab Date: Tue, May 18, 1999, 1:04 PM NEWS RELEASE: USDA Research Yields New Wheat Variety to Help Farmers Fight Scab ---------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 18, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- WASHINGTON, May 18--A new variety of wheat developed by USDA researchers will help farmers in the Northern Great Plains slow the spread of wheat scab, a costly fungal disease, Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman announced today. "USDA's intensified research efforts are helping American farmers fight wheat scab," Glickman said. "This new wheat variety, our most scab-tolerant ever, will be available to farmers for the spring 2000 planting season, preventing more damage by this costly disease." Scab losses cost American wheat growers more than $2.6 billion between 1991 and 1997. Scab, or Fusarium head blight, shrivels kernels of wheat and other cereal grain crops such as barley. The disease also produces toxins that can make crops unsuitable for flour, cereal, some malt, and animal feed. Many growers discovered the problem only after harvesting wheat kernels that were empty shells. The new variety, McVey hard red spring wheat, slows the spread of the disease in the seedhead so fewer kernels are destroyed. It is the first product to emerge from USDA's accelerated research efforts in response to the scab epidemic. This year, USDA increased its annual research spending on scab by $3 million. The new funding to ARS and university researchers builds on the $500,000 per year that USDA has allocated each year since 1997. The researchers are part of the U.S. Wheat and Barley Scab Initiative, a consortium of 20 state universities supported by many wheat- and barley-related organizations and individuals. Minnesota farmer Tom Anderson and Michigan State University breeder Rick Ward are co-chairs of the scab consortium. The new variety is named for Donald V. McVey, a plant pathologist at the USDA's Cereal Disease Laboratory in St. Paul, Minn. Its development was funded in part by the Minnesota Wheat Research and Promotion Council, Red Lake Falls, Minn., through money collected from wheat farmers. The Minnesota Crop Improvement Association, based in St. Paul, is distributing seed to certified seed growers. A comprehensive story on ARS scab research around the country, including development of McVey, will appear in the June issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine. ---------- Scientific contact: Robert H. Busch, ARS Plant Science Research Unit, St. Paul, Minn., phone (612) 625-1975, fax (651) 649-5058, busch005@maroon.tc.umn.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 18:50:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26524 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA02336 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:14:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA02279 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28468 invoked from network); 18 May 1999 22:14:16 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-33.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.205) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 18 May 1999 22:14:16 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990518181137.00986af0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:14:02 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: Henry A. Wallace Institute In-Reply-To: <199905182035.PAA05133@aae.wisc.edu> References: <4.1.19990518145718.0097c540@nb.net> <37417D81.59B0A3A7@stvincent.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 890 Whoops. It has been called to my attention that I reversed the acronym (I do it all the time) when typing the URL for the Wallace Instutute Web site. It's www.hawiaa.org instead of hawaii. Wishful thinking for board meetings.... Cass Peterson www.flickerville.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 18:59:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26611 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA11150 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:29:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from milkyway.uark.edu (mailgate.uark.edu [130.184.7.105]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA11142 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by milkyway.uark.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01316 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:29:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 581I.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id RAA22547 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 17:30:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905182230.RAA22547@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:29:29 +0000 Subject: Aquaponics Short Course Reply-to: steved@ncatark.uark.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 891 SAN-netters, The commercial adaptation of aquaponics over the last 10-15 years is one of the biggest success stories in sustainable food production. The aquaponic cycle of nutrient generation (fish manure, algae, fish chow) and water restoration (constructed wetland hydroponics) is a good example of integrated agriculture, where waste from one system serves as fuel for the second biological system. Here's a short course in case you or one of the greenhouse growers/farmers in your region are interested. The aquaponics program at The University of the Virgin Islands is outstanding. Steve Diver ========================================= ========================================= Subject: Aquaponics Short Course From: james.rakocy@uvi.edu (James Rakocy, Ph.D.) Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:15:37 -0400 (AST) This is a reminder that The University of the Virgin Islands is offering a short course on aquaponics and tilapia aquaculture this summer. The announcement is also on the WWW at the following address http://rps.uvi.edu/AES/Aquaculture/UVIShortCourse.html Our homepage address is: http://rps.uvi.edu/AES/aes_home.html Since our last announcement it seems that several new people have joined the list. With this course we will not only answer many of your questions, but we will describe the range of options that exist setting up aquaponic systems and the principles that you need to know for efficienct operation. By the end of the course you will able to design a commercial-scale facility and write a business plan. Plus you will get plenty of hands-on experience as you will be charged with running 14 systems as part of your training. Jim R. UNIVERSITY OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS AQUAPONICS AND TILAPIA AQUACULTURE SHORT COURSE July 11-17, 1999 Program A 7-day course that will provide in-depth knowledge of the principles and practical application of the aquaponic and greenwater tank culture systems that have been developed at the University of the Virgin Islands. Participants will be introduced to a variety of system designs using hydroponic plant culture (aquaponics), suspended growth processes (greenwater tank culture), or rotating biological contactors and settling or filtering of solids for maintaining water quality. Fish production instruction will be conducted using both the Nile tilapia (Oreochromis niloticus) as well as the Florida Red tilapia. Hydroponic plant production will focus on lettuce, but will also cover many other vegetables as well as culinary and medicinal herbs and ornamental flowers. Topics Aquaponic system System design and management Components Construction techniques Operation Water quality Fish production Stocking rates Growth and survival rates Feed and feeding methods Harvesting Processing Plant production Seedling production Transplanting Disease and insect control Harvesting and packaging Greenwater tank system Fish production Stocking/Growout Water quality management Feed and feeding methods Sludge use for field crops Economics Capital budgeting Operations plan Marketing Fingerling production Brood stock management Breeding Fry sex reversal Fingerling rearing Instruction Each day will include a half-day of classroom lecture and a half-day of hands-on field work. Participants will learn the technology through presentation of the theory and practical skill development. Each student will be given a notebook of reference materials. Water quality labs will cover the standard methods of analysis and the use of water quality test kits. Field work will include fish handling, vegetable production and system operation. Facilities UVI is located in the heart of beautiful St. Croix. The Aquaculture Program operates 12 research-scale systems (6 aquaponic and 6 greenwater) as well as a commercial-scale aquaponic system, a greenwater demonstration system with vegetable garden, a fry sex-reversal system, a recirculating system for fingerling rearing and a purge system. The program produces about 20,000 lbs. of tilapia annually and more than 1,000 cases of vegetables. Cost This course will cost $985. The fee covers course materials, dorm room on campus for 8 nights (July 10-18), graduation banquet and a sailing trip to Buck Island National Park for a day of snorkeling amid spectacular coral reefs. Meals cost $3-6 each at the school cafeteria. Airfare to St. Croix, USVI is not included in the registration fee and should be arranged separately by each individual. Registration Register by contacting Dr. James Rakocy at the address below. Please provide name, address, telephone and fax numbers, e-mail address and a brief description of background and experience with tilapia production and/or hydroponics. Enrollment is limited. A $300 deposit, payable to the University of the Virgin Islands, is necessary by June 15, 1999 to reserve your place in this course. The balance will be due the first day of class. Instructional Staff Dr. James Rakocy System design/production Donald Bailey Business planning/operations/aquaponics John Martin Greenwater systems/extension R. Charlie Shultz Water quality/pest management/vegetable production For more information and to register contact Dr. James Rakocy, RR 2, Box 10,000, Kingshill, VI 00850, Phone: 340-692-4020, E-mail: jrakocy@uvi.edu ================================================ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 19:33:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27098 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA28990 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:03:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA28907 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool019-max4.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.13.119]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id K92T0JWS; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:03:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3741F439.960B0D2D@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:14:01 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1033 References: <199905181831.OAA17596@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 892 PLEASE EVERYBODY, DO NOT POST THE REFERED TO PEICE IN YOUR RESPONSES. I get the digest version, and it fills up fast- thank you phil gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 19:50:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27252 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA09190 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:23:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nyct.net (bsd4.nyct.net [204.141.86.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA09075 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (ppp55.nyct.net [207.198.184.55]) by nyct.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA19398 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:23:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sharon@nyct.net) Message-ID: <3741F696.2277@nyct.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:24:06 -0400 From: Sharon Reply-To: sharon@nyct.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: NYC Gardens Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 893 Just spoke with THE community gardener/activist in my neighborhood and she reminded me that credit for saving the gardens also needs to be given to the Trust for Public Land and their work over the last six months. She said they had 25 funders lined up last fall but the Mayor refused to have a meeting with them. And of course the gardeners who lobbied, demonstrated and got arrested. Hope there are lessons here that can be applied to our own situations. Power to the Plant People, Sharon To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 19:54:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27295 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA08951 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:23:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08855 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.doit.wisc.edu (mail5.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.104.215]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11595 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.104.49.124] by mail5.doit.wisc.edu id SAA26522 (8.9.1/50); Tue, 18 May 1999 18:23:19 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990518172010.006f10cc@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: lkpaine@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:20:10 +0000 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: "Laura K. Paine" Subject: Re: Avery's assumptions In-Reply-To: <373EE2ED.A715D6D1@earthlink.net> References: <56D970C48AA@agecon.uga.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 894 Hello, Finally had a chance to catch up on comments on the Avery thread and I have a few additional thoughts. One of the primary claims of biotechnology advocates is that biotechnology is going to help save the world from starvation by increasing yields, but none of the current varieties or any that I've heard of are even claiming to increase yields. In fact, some, like the Roundup Ready varieties appear to have slightly lower yields than their traditional counterparts. Granted, these varieties may have other benefits, such as reducing the need for pesticides or increasing profitability, but I'm unaware of any new varieties, either biotech or otherwise, that have significantly higher yields than existing varieties. Are any of the companies working on this? Awhile back some folks were saying that we'd reached a threshold, where yields of our major crops can't be increased significantly--that it's physically impossible. I wonder if this is, in fact, the case and perhaps, when all is said and done, we'll still have to deal with our overpopulation problems on this earth by reducing our population to a sustainable level (I'm not saying that this would be an easy task). Kindest regards, Laura Laura Paine Crops and Soils Agent Columbia County Agriculture Center 120 West Conant Street PO Box 567 Portage, WI 53901-0567 608/742-9680 FAX: 608/742-9862 laura.paine@ces.uwex.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 20:17:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA27597 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA23053 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:49:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA22974 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.47]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 18 May 1999 18:48:51 -0500 Message-ID: <199905181847130710.00D2AA61@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <37417D81.59B0A3A7@stvincent.edu> References: <37417D81.59B0A3A7@stvincent.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:47:13 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dean Nelson" Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Henry A. Wallace Institute Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA22979 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 895 Hi! Just wanted to add my own seal of approval. Years ago I subscribed to the two main publication published by the Institute for Alternative Agriculture (the forerunner of Henry W. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture,) have ordered a few of their research papers and Kate Clancy (on the Board of Directors, I believe) sent me a couple more of their to notch and highly professional works as a result of an interchange stemming from this forum. I also look forward to reading their quarterly newsletter which Andy posts here. What they do is exactly what the biological, alternative, ecological, organic, and in short responsible agricultural movement needs more of. Douglas Hinds *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 18/05/99 at 10:47 AM Dean Nelson wrote: >I just got a packet in the mail from the Henry W. Wallace Institute for >Alternative Agriculture. They seem to be pretty well heeled with major >contributers being the Kellogg Foundation and Pew Charitable Trust. Is >this a lobbying group like Concerned Citizens for the Environment which >is a front group for chemical manufacturers? I really hate having to be >so cynical, but I would hate worse being taken for a ride. > >Dean > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 20:35:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28310 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:35:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA00703 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:06:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00581 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.47]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:05:11 -0500 Message-ID: <199905181903340510.00E1A23B@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <19990518170244.21813.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990518170244.21813.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:03:34 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "J. S." Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: GMO, cars and doing it yourself (Is food really less personal)? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA00593 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 896 Hi Jane, Of course we agree - but I did annoted that paragraph with what is in brackets and resend it. Here it is again in case it mas missed: Basically, genes that were developed over millenniums in one evolutionary line can not necessarily be snipped out and pasted in another organism with different origins and (perhaps) destiny, [without unforeseen, far reaching and perhaps grave repercussions]. This issue is far more complex than the variables the you are looking at and raises questions of integrity - biological and ecological integrity that simply have never been dealt with since life began on this planet. No one has the answers at this point and much more caution is called for than that which has been mandated, as yet. The way you are postulating the issue, your conclusions are foregone, self justified. But there are aspects to the issue you are ignoring and so many unknowns that any wholesale presumption is simply uncalled for at this time In the same vein, I hope Bob McGreagor doesn't mind if I post something of his: I think that "patience" is what has been lacking in tree fruit breeding. That also applies to GMO's - the idea of genetic varietal improvement through genetics is fine, but do it through breeding, not microsurgery. Bob also said " I think a lot of what progress has been made is by amateurs who tinker for a lifetime to come up with something good... as you say, if you want something you have to do it yourself." I include that comment in the sense that if you want to breed something better (like a better baby), are you going to splice genes or do it yourself with what you've got? Is food really less personal? D H *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 18/05/99 at 10:02 AM J. S. wrote: >The scary things is that YES, THEY CAN!!!!!! > >and that is what a great many biotechnologists are doing as I write >this...what cannot necessarily be done is cutting and pasting genes without >HUGE and primarily not known/understood ecological ramifications. > >>From: "Douglas M. Hinds" >>To: "MV" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >>Subject: Re: GMO and cars >>Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 06:44:08 -0600 >> > >>Basically, genes that were developed over millenniums in one evolutionary >>line can not necessarily be snipped out and pasted in another organism >>with different origins and (perhaps), destiny. > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 18 20:37:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28327 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 20:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA26120 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:58:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA26095 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.utexas.edu (wb1-a.mail.utexas.edu [128.83.126.134]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA12423 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 19:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22782 invoked by uid 0); 18 May 1999 23:58:08 -0000 Received: from p107.amax12.dialup.aus1.flash.net (HELO rsocpce) (208.194.195.107) by umbs-smtp-1 with SMTP; 18 May 1999 23:58:08 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990518185845.00847da0@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: blevy@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:58:45 -0700 To: Edna M Weigel , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Betsy Ilima Levy Subject: re: Roly-poly plague In-Reply-To: <19990516.212720.3574.1.eweigel@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 897 It seems to me I heard that khaki campbell ducks also eat roly-polys? As well as slugs and snails and other pests? Maybe someone knows whether they're hard on the garden? (they also lay an egg a day, pretty unusual for a duck). At 09:25 PM 5/16/99 -0700, Edna M Weigel wrote: >Ronald Nigh wrote: >> I remember that there was a discussion about roly-poly bugs a few >> months ago, though I can't seem to find the references. > > I assume you are talking about those creatures that resemble >miniature armadillos maybe 1/2 inch long (with, I think, 10 legs). I >grew up in Kansas calling them "sow bugs." They supposedly eat only dead >plant material and cause no economic harm, but CAN be serious pests--I've >had them eat the fruit of strawberries and the entire plant of small >seedlings. I'm not sure how much this will help, but I recall the thread >of discussion you refer to. You might find the discussion by searching >for "sow bug" or "pill bug." As I recall, someone asked for help with a >plague then later complained about lack of response. That complaint >brought protests that the scientific name wasn't used and one comment to >the effect that they are supposed to eat only dead plants but sometimes >don't wait for the plant to die. I don't recall any controls being >suggested. > I would expect more than usual humidity would contribute to their >numbers. About control, while I was living and gardening in Phoenix, I >gave up using mulch entirely because they were especially hard on mulched >plants. Now that I am out of the city (outside Sierra Vista in southeast >Arizona) I find I can successfully mulch, but I still have large numbers >of sow bugs. They seem to fill the niche usually thought of for >earthworms, which are nonexistent where I am now. My chickens love them >and I see large numbers only in my compost and only if I manage to keep >it reasonably moist. I'm even building compost pits in the chicken yard >to encourage those creatures because my chickens need winter-time >protein. > Would it be possible to use poultry in the orchid greenhouse? A >friend told me that guinea hens like sow bugs even better than chickens >do, and guineas supposedly are kinder to gardens than chickens. I >suggest this with reservations, however, because a friend gave me 4 adult >guineas and I had such a miserable time with them that I gave them to >another friend within 2 weeks. > Also, how about diatomatous earth (DE)? I've not tried it, but >my intuition says it might work. There is a difference of opinion about >the specifications for DE; some say that you must buy insecticide grade >while others insist that the DE used in swimming pool filters works >nearly as well. I think DE is also a component of many scouring powders >like AJAX. > These are the only ideas I can come up with at the moment. Good >luck. > -- Edna Weigel > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 09:47:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06632 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA03247 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:55:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03183 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA23688 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id HAA21020; Wed, 19 May 1999 07:55:03 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma020311; Wed, 19 May 99 07:54:20 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 19 May 1999 07:54:20 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD3A@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Laura K. Paine'" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Avery's assumptions Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 07:54:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 898 Laura, > Granted, these varieties may have other benefits, such > as reducing the need for pesticides or increasing profitability, > but I'm unaware of any new varieties, either biotech or > otherwise, that have significantly higher yields than existing > varieties. Are any of the companies working on this? Transgenic approaches to pest control were first on the biotech agenda because they were easy to do (relatively speaking). Traditionally, yield and quality have been central for Pioneer, and the other big breeding companies. These goals have been and are being pursued by "conventional" breeding. I used quotes because now conventional breeding is powerfully augmented by genetic fingerprinting and marker-assisted selection. We are beginning to use powerful genetic and informational tools to gain understanding of the biology underlying quality and yield. This understanding is necessary to make much new progress. "Biotech" in the plant breeding context is still in it's infancy. Even as we write, new products better suited to food uses (as opposed to feed) are coming through the pipeline. These include things like corn with lower mycotoxin levels, better milling quality, soybeans better suited for soymilk and tofu, wheats with improved food qualities. IMO, it is in these areas, that genetic engineering will help feed the world. Not so much through higher yields per se, as through improved usefulness and value for human consumption. > Awhile back some folks were saying that we'd reached a > threshold, where yields of our major crops can't be increased > significantly--that it's physically impossible. I wonder if > this is, in fact, the case and perhaps, when all is said and > done, we'll still have to deal with our overpopulation > problems on this earth by reducing our population to a > sustainable level. I don't think yielding ability of crop varieties is a big problem. I'm sure the world could produce far more grain than it does now, with existing varieties. By shifting more of that to direct human consumption, far more humans could be fed, though we may not like such a world. Hunger is a problem now due to political and social factors. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 09:55:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06750 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA06702 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:04:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from spamgaad.compuserve.com (as-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.147]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06697 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.0) id JAA28486 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:00:21 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199905190903_MC2-763D-BFBB@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 899 Regarding efficiency, I've noted previously the necessity of using the second law of thermodynamics rather than the first law as the standard if we are to achieve sustainability. (See "Lettuce and the Laws of Thermodynamics" 10/31/97 : at www.wshu.org/duesing.) It is almost as important to keep in mind what we are talking about. Just growing food or the whole food system? Greg questions Avery's assumption that we'll grow corn and beans to feed animals (with the plants and animals being perhaps thousands of miles apart), rather than raising animals on pasture. There is also the assumption that those animals will represent about 20 percent (and shrinking) of the value of the food that's consumed. Ten percent of 20 percent is not much compared to the possibilities for cutting into the 80 percent marketing share. As the trends are pointing, more and more of any hogs raised will be eaten as small pieces of highly processed meats in frozen pizza pockets and fast food breakfasts very far from where corn or hogs were raised. Efficient, productive organic farms growing for the existing food distribution system will be only slightly less disasterous for the planet and society than chemical farms. Bill Duesing Old Solar Farm Certified organic local, direct marketing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 10:39:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07600 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA05421 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:55:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from e245000n0.hart.k12.ky.us ([170.180.51.76]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05298 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 09:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by E245000N0 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:45:46 -0500 Message-ID: <916DBDF70285D011931A0000F81E023D2B990D@E245000N0> From: "Wiediger, Alison" To: SANET-mg Subject: RE: Avery and food dist. system Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:45:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 900 We have to agree with this statement wholeheartedly. However, here in rural Kentucky, 100+ miles from a major urban center, it is a 'tough row to hoe'. We figure less than 5% of our customers have any idea what organic is, don't see any need for it, buy whatever food is cheapest regardless of where it's grown or how it's grown. We do a Farmers' Market in the closest large town (50,000) every Saturday. Last Saturday, we had beautiful heads of 6 varieties of lettuce, early broccoli, spinach, radishes, various greens. The other vendors had tomatoes,peppers, squash, even watermelon. By using a poly tunnel, we will probably have ripe tomatoes, peppers and squash in about 2 weeks - about 3-4 weeks ahead of field grown - but we won't have the terrific sales we should have for the 'first', because consumers will already be used to going to the stalls that always have everything. An education process has to happen first, but that's tough to do here. We persevere (this is our 9th season at this market and we do have some steady customers), but it is discouraging to watch people pass up our beautiful, organic, picked yesterday produce for stuff shipped in from who knows where, picked who knows how many days ago. Paul and Alison Wiediger Au Naturel Farm Smiths Grove, KY > ---------- > From: BILL DUESING[SMTP:71042.2023@compuserve.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 8:00 AM > To: SANET-mg > Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 > > > Efficient, productive organic farms growing for the existing food > distribution system will be only slightly less disasterous for the planet > and society than chemical farms. > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 11:03:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08318 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA18083 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:17:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18058 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP263.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.25]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03557 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 07:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3742C865.936D2006@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:19:17 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 901 Bill (and others), You're exactly right. The ultimate definition of farm "efficiency" has to go back to thermodynamics. John Jeavons and Ecology Action measured the caloric intake of gardeners using hand labor only and discovered they produced 10 calories of food for every calorie eaten- a net increase of energy from the sun. Our present day agriculture burns 10 calories for every calorie produced- an energy deficit we can only continue through the use of military and resulting political power. The other point you brought up is the distribution system. We burn most of our fuel for food to transport it all around the country and from around the world. Localizing our food systems on smaller farms which are integrated with our cities would make us much more "efficient." (What you wrote reminded me of something I read recently- Ecologists on a train going 60 miles an hour headed north and walking south on the train at 5 mph, congratulating themselves on the great progress they're making.) I realize that some things like wheat and corn can be grown more efficiently on larger farms. The fact remains that most of our food would be fresher and more efficiently produced on small market farms. I think that what we need is farms of all sizes- mini farms in the urban and suburban areas marketing directly, small farms in semi-rural areas marketing directly and wholesaling, and large farms for grains, fiber, etc. in our rural areas. I am also aware of the mind-set in this country that bigger is better and that we need to reach an "economy of scale." For those of you who still believe that "bigger" is more efficient than small farms, read "Family Farming" by Marty Strange. He looks at this issue from all angles and his numbers show how much more efficient small, diversified farms really are. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 11:49:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10483 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA10421 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.2.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10409 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.2.16]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08827 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncc.uky.edu.uky.edu ([128.163.196.145]) by pop.uky.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29954 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 10:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990520105559.006b50ec@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: toria@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:55:59 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Victoria Mundy Subject: Re: Avery In-Reply-To: <199905191419.KAA19147@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 902 Hello everyone, In an article published in _Choices_ magazine (First Quarter 1997, p. 10-13), Mr. Avery brought up a point that I'd appreciate some research direction on...it appeared to be a point that does need addressing instead of dismissing. He says that we do not have enough organic nitrogen to support organic production. He suggests that the only way to get the necessary N is to clear forests to plant more legumes. Of course his suggestion is narrow-minded and he ignores a whole raft of issues such as conservation of N and sensible usage, but the question of N-sufficiency did give me pause. I especially had to stop to think because most of the organic farmers I talk to *do* tend to import N in the form of off-farm compost, off-farm manure, etc. Their goal is always not to have to do so, but this goal seems difficult to achieve. I'd welcome ideas, especially those that lead me to the library. Thanks, Victoria ************************************* Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy N106R Ag. Sci. North, UK Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 11:56:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10687 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19143 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:11:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19091 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27344 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm9-22.nidlink.com [216.18.141.77]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA26432 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990519151756.00baf0c0@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:17:56 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: EPA-USDA Mtg ob Bt-Corn Resistance Management Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 903 Sanet -- Two items. Details of the June 18th EPA-USDA public meeting on the proposed industry resistance management plan (RMP) for the European corn borer have been released and are accessible on the EPA-Biopesticides homepage at -- http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/btworkshop618.htm The meeting promises to be significant in working (hopefully quickly) toward a set of policies governing the design, implementation, enforcement, and actions triggered by a transgenic crop RMP. This will be the only meeting EPA-USDA are likely to have on the Bt-corn RMP; a similar Bt-cotton meeting is being scheduled later this summer. I am participating on the monitoring and remedial action panel. If anyone has experience with last year's or this year's monitoring effort, and would be willing to share their sense of its adequacy, and how it might be improved, please send me a private e-mail. Ditto, thoughts on what steps should be taken in the event evidence of resistance emerges. The plan itself is accessible on the National Corn Growers Association webpage at http://www.ncga.com>. Second item. The May 1999 issue of Farm Chemicals, pages 24-28 has an article entitled "Flick of a Switch" by Tina Grady. It describes several applications of "chemical-inducible expression systems," or "gene switching." After describing various ways the technique could work/be used, Simon Bright, biotech R+D manager for Zeneca in the U.K. shares some thoughts in the article's concluding paragraph, which appears in its entirety below -- "If two or three switches that work well can be developed, then 'we can enter the age of "digital agriculture,"' Bright says. 'If we can just "dial up" gene switches, imagine the developmental technology we can have. We can then do 'on-the-fly' agriculture, bringing in the next wave of biotechnology in agriculture with a simple flick of a switch.'" Imagine that. Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 12:11:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA10977 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA29399 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:29:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29335 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.160] (ke-ppp10.hevanet.com [198.5.254.160]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA05896; Wed, 19 May 1999 08:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905191529.IAA05896@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:29:27 -0700 Subject: FW: New Attractant and Repellent to Target Pest Ants From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 904 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Attractant and Repellent to Target Pest Ants Date: Wed, May 19, 1999, 7:06 AM STORY LEAD: New Attractant and Repellent to Target Pest Ants ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 19, 1999 Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- A new attractant and repellent mean double trouble for pest ants, including fire ants that infest southern states and are now showing up in California. Many commercially available baits have oil or sugar-based formulas that attract either oil-loving or sugar-loving ants--but not both. The new patent-pending attractant, developed by Agricultural Research Service researchers, is attractive to multiple ant species. It can be used in combination with water-soluble toxicants to create a bait. This attractant degrades easily and has little environmental impact. ARS entomologists conducted studies showing that the bait attracted imported fire ants, Argentine ants, Pharaoh ants, little black ants, carpenter ants, ghost ants, big-headed ants, little fire ants, acrobat ants and crazy ants. Many of these pest ants are problems both indoors and outdoors, and cause either agricultural, structural or other damage. ARS scientists are also using this attractant for routine monitoring of pest ants with Department of Defense and integrated pest management researchers. The ant repellent, developed by ARS scientists, is a much-needed alternative to insecticides. Many regulations limit or ban insecticides for controlling insects, especially in populated areas. This repellent relies on chemical scents repugnant to ants, discouraging them from entering certain areas or forcing them to leave. It also reduces reliance on insecticides. The patent-pending repellent should be useful against the red imported fire ant and several other pest ants in the United States. In addition, the repellent could potentially be effective against pest ants in other parts of the world such as leaf-cutting ant species that can defoliate an entire citrus tree overnight, which are problematic in central South America. ARS is the primary research agency for the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ---------- Scientific contact: David F. Williams and David H. Oi, ARS Center for Medical, Agricultural, and Veterinary Entomology, Gainesville, Fla., phone (352) 374-5903, fax (352) 374-5818, dwilliams@gainesville.usda.ufl.edu, doi@gainesville.usda.ufl.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 13:18:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12597 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 13:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA08799 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:36:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08743 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28741 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:35:50 -0500 Message-ID: <199905191134150540.02756865@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD3A@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD3A@vela.phibred.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:34:15 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dale Wilson" , "'Laura K. Paine'" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Where Biotech's Going and / or Could Go (was "Avery's assumptions") Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA08756 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 905 Hi Dale et. al., Please clarify the following: >Traditionally, yield >and quality have been central for Pioneer, and the other big breeding >companies. These goals have been and are being pursued by "conventional" >breeding. I used quotes because now conventional breeding is powerfully >augmented by genetic fingerprinting and marker-assisted selection. > >We are beginning to use powerful genetic and informational tools to gain >understanding of the biology underlying quality and yield. This >understanding is necessary to make much new progress. "Biotech" in the >plant breeding context is still in it's infancy. Even as we write, new >products better suited to food uses (as opposed to feed) are coming through >the pipeline. I would hope that the new progress you speak of is not dependant on transgenetic technologies; that is, technologies that can NOT be performed within the framework of evolutionary, biological (rather than mechanical, surgical) processes. I have said before - the problem as I see it is not with the goal (except where the goal is weighted toward developing a proprietary more than truly useful product) but rather with the methodology. I assume you get my drift (accept my premise as such) and hope you will address the following issues I am interested in: 1).- What can be done in this sense? (Apply the present body of knowledge and / or current research methods to genetic rather than transgenetic development); and 2).- To what extent do the current research priorities of "Pioneer, and the other big breeding companies" permit (or logically lead to) that. 3).- What criteria are being used to define quality? (Yield is a less complicated measurement - unless you take into account the way the consuming organism's performance is affected - but that too is more related to quality. And science itself is simply a measuring stick - or a set of them. Therefore, this will shed some light on what kind of science is being done - and this is not a black and white issue). Thanks in advance. D H (I'm not sure to what extent this is consistent with the thread, which I haven't followed closely. If not, the thread name can be changed - if fact I'll do it now) . *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 19/05/99 at 7:54 AM Wilson, Dale wrote: >Laura, > >> Granted, these varieties may have other benefits, such >> as reducing the need for pesticides or increasing profitability, >> but I'm unaware of any new varieties, either biotech or >> otherwise, that have significantly higher yields than existing >> varieties. Are any of the companies working on this? > >Transgenic approaches to pest control were first on the biotech agenda >because they were easy to do (relatively speaking). Traditionally, yield >and quality have been central for Pioneer, and the other big breeding >companies. These goals have been and are being pursued by "conventional" >breeding. I used quotes because now conventional breeding is powerfully >augmented by genetic fingerprinting and marker-assisted selection. > >We are beginning to use powerful genetic and informational tools to gain >understanding of the biology underlying quality and yield. This >understanding is necessary to make much new progress. "Biotech" in the >plant breeding context is still in it's infancy. Even as we write, new >products better suited to food uses (as opposed to feed) are coming through >the pipeline. These include things like corn with lower mycotoxin levels, >better milling quality, soybeans better suited for soymilk and tofu, wheats >with improved food qualities. > >IMO, it is in these areas, that genetic engineering will help feed the >world. Not so much through higher yields per se, as through improved >usefulness and value for human consumption. > >> Awhile back some folks were saying that we'd reached a >> threshold, where yields of our major crops can't be increased >> significantly--that it's physically impossible. I wonder if >> this is, in fact, the case and perhaps, when all is said and >> done, we'll still have to deal with our overpopulation >> problems on this earth by reducing our population to a >> sustainable level. > >I don't think yielding ability of crop varieties is a big problem. I'm sure >the world could produce far more grain than it does now, with existing >varieties. By shifting more of that to direct human consumption, far more >humans could be fed, though we may not like such a world. Hunger is a >problem now due to political and social factors. > >Dale > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 14:15:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13788 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA18695 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:51:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from toolbox.total.net (toolbox.total.net [205.236.175.109]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA18624 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16705 invoked from network); 19 May 1999 16:51:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO windows98) (216.210.36.209) by smtp.total.net with SMTP; 19 May 1999 16:51:33 -0000 Message-ID: <020301bea217$1f1a08e0$6321d2d8@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: , Subject: Re: Sodium nitrate, aka Chilean saltpeter, etc Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:46:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 906 Ron wrote: > >Dear Sanet, >I'm sorry, but the following is wrong on two counts. > >First of all, Chilean nitrate is not "natural geological deposit" but >rather the bird guano collected from islands off the coast of Chile. It is >so concentrated that its primary use was in the fabrication of gunpowder, >until the First World War, when, threatened with being cut off from its >"natural" source, Germany invented the Haber process to fix nitrogen from >the air (the basis of the synthetic fertilizer industry). No, Chilean nitrate is a natural geological deposit, which did give Chile a virtual monopoly on nitrates until the Haber-Bosch process was developed...You can look it up in the encyclopedia under sodium nitrate, or under the evaporite minerals... > >Secondly, I don't know of any organic certifier that has a "a default >allowance for natural >substances along with a default rejection of synthetic substances." This >is ridiculous. Organic certifiers evaluate substances in terms of their >effects on natural agroecosystem processes or on the quality of the food >produced. Some synthetic substances are allowed and some "natural" >substances,as you note, are banned. Among the latter is Chilean nitrates. > As Loren states, their effect on the soil is virtually the same as >synthetic sodium nitrate--e.g. negative for soil microbiology in general >and negative for the environment due to excess N runoff. I am not aware of >the "20% rule". IFOAM carried out a study on the reasons for the ban and >has a publication explaining this in detail. Andre Voisin mentions the use of sodium nitrate in Grass Productivity---grass roots would make an excellent capture medium for the nitrates---and the sodium would only be a problem in low rainfall areas or where sodium levels were high.... Its use is allowed on a restricted basis by ecological landscaping standards, and at least has been allowed by some organic certifiers....here checking with the specific certifier you have, or have in mind, seems appropriate.... The best place to get N, if you can, is on-site legumes..... Frank Teuton To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 14:16:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13835 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:16:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA18718 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:51:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from toolbox.total.net (toolbox.total.net [205.236.175.109]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA18623 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16705 invoked from network); 19 May 1999 16:51:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO windows98) (216.210.36.209) by smtp.total.net with SMTP; 19 May 1999 16:51:33 -0000 Message-ID: <020301bea217$1f1a08e0$6321d2d8@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: , Subject: Re: Sodium nitrate, aka Chilean saltpeter, etc Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 12:46:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 907 Ron wrote: > >Dear Sanet, >I'm sorry, but the following is wrong on two counts. > >First of all, Chilean nitrate is not "natural geological deposit" but >rather the bird guano collected from islands off the coast of Chile. It is >so concentrated that its primary use was in the fabrication of gunpowder, >until the First World War, when, threatened with being cut off from its >"natural" source, Germany invented the Haber process to fix nitrogen from >the air (the basis of the synthetic fertilizer industry). No, Chilean nitrate is a natural geological deposit, which did give Chile a virtual monopoly on nitrates until the Haber-Bosch process was developed...You can look it up in the encyclopedia under sodium nitrate, or under the evaporite minerals... > >Secondly, I don't know of any organic certifier that has a "a default >allowance for natural >substances along with a default rejection of synthetic substances." This >is ridiculous. Organic certifiers evaluate substances in terms of their >effects on natural agroecosystem processes or on the quality of the food >produced. Some synthetic substances are allowed and some "natural" >substances,as you note, are banned. Among the latter is Chilean nitrates. > As Loren states, their effect on the soil is virtually the same as >synthetic sodium nitrate--e.g. negative for soil microbiology in general >and negative for the environment due to excess N runoff. I am not aware of >the "20% rule". IFOAM carried out a study on the reasons for the ban and >has a publication explaining this in detail. Andre Voisin mentions the use of sodium nitrate in Grass Productivity---grass roots would make an excellent capture medium for the nitrates---and the sodium would only be a problem in low rainfall areas or where sodium levels were high.... Its use is allowed on a restricted basis by ecological landscaping standards, and at least has been allowed by some organic certifiers....here checking with the specific certifier you have, or have in mind, seems appropriate.... The best place to get N, if you can, is on-site legumes..... Frank Teuton To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 14:18:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13933 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19912 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:55:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19854 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 12:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 19 May 1999 11:55:30 -0500 Message-ID: <199905191153550730.02876B2F@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <916DBDF70285D011931A0000F81E023D2B990D@E245000N0> References: <916DBDF70285D011931A0000F81E023D2B990D@E245000N0> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:53:55 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Wiediger, Alison" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Avery and food dist. system Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA19864 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 908 >"The other vendors had tomatoes,peppers, squash, even watermelon. " Are these locally grown? If so, what are they doing differently? I assume that in May in Kentucky, any local "tomatoes,peppers, squash, or watermelon" would have to be greenhouse grown. As for: > it is discouraging to watch people pass up our beautiful, >organic, picked yesterday produce for stuff shipped in from who knows where, >picked who knows how many days ago. Guess that answers my question. I assume you eat a lot of your own products, and therefore stand a decent chance of outlasting your neighbors. Maybe their grandchildren will catch on, when they see you're still around. On the other hand, you could do a CSA project, offering produce to people in the nearest city where the cultural level is sufficient to appreciate the quality of your crops - you could do a web page, advertise in appropriate media - you might even qualify for funds from some SARE, USDA or SBA program geared for that (if any). Look for veggie restaurants, food co-ops, universities, exclusive restaurants; hospitals might go for it. I know organic growers in the LRGV (lower rio grande valley) that do that - most all their produce goes out of the valley to suscribers (although citrus is admittedly less perishable). Meanwhile, eat hearty. D H *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 19/05/99 at 8:45 AM Wiediger, Alison wrote: >We have to agree with this statement wholeheartedly. However, here in rural >Kentucky, 100+ miles from a major urban center, it is a 'tough row to hoe'. >We figure less than 5% of our customers have any idea what organic is, don't >see any need for it, buy whatever food is cheapest regardless of where it's >grown or how it's grown. We do a Farmers' Market in the closest large town >(50,000) every Saturday. Last Saturday, we had beautiful heads of 6 >varieties of lettuce, early broccoli, spinach, radishes, various greens. >The other vendors had tomatoes,peppers, squash, even watermelon. By using a >poly tunnel, we will probably have ripe tomatoes, peppers and squash in >about 2 weeks - about 3-4 weeks ahead of field grown - but we won't have the >terrific sales we should have for the 'first', because consumers will >already be used to going to the stalls that always have everything. An >education process has to happen first, but that's tough to do here. We >persevere (this is our 9th season at this market and we do have some steady >customers), but it is discouraging to watch people pass up our beautiful, >organic, picked yesterday produce for stuff shipped in from who knows where, >picked who knows how many days ago. > >Paul and Alison Wiediger >Au Naturel Farm >Smiths Grove, KY > >> ---------- >> From: BILL DUESING[SMTP:71042.2023@compuserve.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 8:00 AM >> To: SANET-mg >> Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1018 >> >> >> Efficient, productive organic farms growing for the existing food >> distribution system will be only slightly less disasterous for the planet >> and society than chemical farms. >> >> >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 15:47:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16160 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 15:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA06824 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:16:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06739 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA00994 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id NAA08491; Wed, 19 May 1999 13:15:55 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma007626; Wed, 19 May 99 13:15:08 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 19 May 1999 13:15:07 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD3E@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Douglas M. Hinds'" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Where Biotech's Going and / or Could Go (was "Avery's assumpt ions") Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 13:15:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 909 Hello Douglas, >> We are beginning to use powerful genetic and informational >> tools to gain understanding of the biology underlying quality >> and yield. This understanding is necessary to make much new >> progress. > I would hope that the new progress you speak of is not > dependant on transgenetic technologies; that is, > technologies that can NOT be performed within the framework > of evolutionary, biological (rather than mechanical, surgical) > processes. I'm still not sure you have adequately defined "transgenic." I guess I would define it as taking pieces of DNA from one species and inserting them into the germline of different species. If you will go along with that definition, then the progress I am speaking about is not only transgenic. For example, I work with seed vigor and germinability. We know there are genetic factors involved, but we don't understand them very well. A lot of the Pioneer germplasm is good in this regard, but we don't know where most of these genes are. The heritability is not very good (ie, it is hard to measure) because the tests for seed vigor in lab and field are not good. If we understood the biology better and had better markers, we could make sure new seed parents all were excellent for seed vigor. Seed vigor is just a very small part of what Pioneer is working on, but most of the genes of interest are already in the corn genome. Soon Pioneer will have sequenced the expressed portions of the entire corn genome. But it will take many, many years to put together the biological jigsaw puzzle. > I have said before - the problem as I see it is not with > the goal (except where the goal is weighted toward > developing a proprietary more than truly useful > product) but rather with the methodology. Things that are not useful don't last too long in the marketplace. But more to the point, IMO the social and economic results of the concentration of genetic knowledge and material into a few private hands, is more consequential than whether we use this or that promoter or transgene. > 2).- To what extent do the current research priorities of > "Pioneer, and the other big breeding companies" permit > (or logically lead to) that. I don't have any inside information about this, but I suspect they are reevaluating how hard to push transgenics in light of European public distrust. All this will work to Pioneers favor though, because we are very good at traditional breeding and seed production. Internally we don't have any bias against transgenics. > 3).- What criteria are being used to define quality? (Yield > is a less complicated measurement - unless you take into Defining quality as usefulness of the grain, the directions include better nutritional quality, energy yield, milling/processing quality, special oils, reduced mycotoxins, special starches, reduced phytate (reduce P in manure), along with lots of other more exotic things that IMO don't have a high chance of success (but who knows?). > ...this is not a black and white issue). That's for sure! Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 18:19:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA20054 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA03723 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 17:26:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03668 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 17:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05078 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 17:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 19 May 1999 16:25:56 -0500 Message-ID: <199905191624230680.037F1326@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD3E@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD3E@vela.phibred.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:24:23 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dale Wilson" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Where Biotech's Going and / or Could Go (was "Avery's assumpt ions") Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA03679 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 910 Hi Dale, On 19/05/99 at 1:15 PM Wilson, Dale wrote: >Hello Douglas, >I'm still not sure you have adequately defined "transgenic." I guess I >would define it as taking pieces of DNA from one species and inserting them >into the germline of different species. >If you will go along with that definition, ... The species themselves and not doing the taking and inserting, and the people doing it are doing it via mechanical or chemical means, as distinguished from "husbandry" consisting of breeding methods that involve the appropriate sexual organs of the organisms being combined. In short: Genes are being manipulated outside the context of the tissue, organ and organism in which they evolved, and this is occurring in the absence of any comprehensive or profound knowledge of their nature. You stated below: >We know there are genetic factors involved, but we don't >understand them very well. ... we don't know where most of these genes are. This is comprehensible. If one is not born with this knowledge, one must acquire it and perhaps that is what is occurring. You also said: >most of the genes of interest are already in the >corn genome. Soon Pioneer will have sequenced the expressed portions of the >entire corn genome. But it will take many, many years to put together the >biological jigsaw puzzle. So far so good. We are studying the nature of the organism, working with it. But that's not all. >the social and economic results of the concentration of >genetic knowledge and material into a few private hands, is more >consequential than whether we use this or that promoter or transgene. True, but much of what's happening is fueled by the possibility of obtaining rights to a patented organism. In that sense, the "ownership" is more important than the knowledge, which is more like genetics - easily transferred, if you've the framework to assimilate and use it. The problem is, as with atomic energy, a given use can be benefic or destructive, controlled or uncontrolled. And as far as I'm concerned, there are less problematic ways to generate electricity than harnessing atomic energy (for instance), that don't involve risks for which there is no known solution (i.e. adequate disposal of spent nuclear fuels). It does not make sense to create unnecessary problems, especially in the face of alternative, less dangerous solutions. The correlation here is that genes, like knowledge, should not be transferred indiscriminately. (As with atomic energy, it's getting into the wrong hands could mean a lot worse than the dangers inherent in living in proximity to an uranium fueled electricity generated plant. And traditional breeding programs don't contaminate, as burning coal does). [In] Pioneers favor though, ... we are very >good at traditional breeding and seed production. Do stick with it. It will serve you well, because everyone else needs the results. >>"criteria are being used to define quality" >Defining quality as usefulness of the grain, the directions include better >nutritional quality, energy yield, milling/processing quality, special oils, >reduced mycotoxins, special starches, reduced phytate (reduce P in manure), >along with lots of other more exotic things that IMO don't have a high >chance of success (but who knows?). So you have a list of maybe 50 characteristics to check for. I wish you could touch with greater depth the potential for applying knowledge gained through working with GMO's to traditional breeding programs; particularly in lieu of the above: >it will take many, many years to put together the >biological jigsaw puzzle. Is this being done? Will there be any benefit? (In the context of traditional breeding programs that involves whole organisms, not just their genes; where the genes are transmitted via organs adapted for that purpose. Would you want to lose yours)? Or is what's going on just tinkering, or if you will - just screwing around? When I was little there was a game on the market called "Mr Potato Face", that you used to create different faces with a variety of pieces that came with it. Perhaps soon, someone will market a game that will consist of creating something similar, except alive. The only definitive statement that can be made to date is that to the degree that the principles and particulars of genetic function and their place within the framework of the whole organism and the ecosystem are as yet undefined, so are the risks involved. Most importantly, these risks are totally unnecessary. This can be stated and upheld, unequivocally. Therefore, it can be concluded that more public and ultimately, legislative attention must be focused on the issue. What is clearly called for is more research and less (i.e. no) marketing of products whose permanent effects on the biosphere are undocumented, until those effects can be plainly demonstrated and qualified. A reasonable period of time for the duration of such a study would be no less than one hundred years. Meanwhile, a moratorium should be mandated and energies constructively channelled into tradition genetic developments. OK? D H *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 19/05/99 at 1:15 PM Wilson, Dale wrote: >Hello Douglas, > >>> We are beginning to use powerful genetic and informational >>> tools to gain understanding of the biology underlying quality >>> and yield. This understanding is necessary to make much new >>> progress. > >> I would hope that the new progress you speak of is not >> dependant on transgenetic technologies; that is, >> technologies that can NOT be performed within the framework >> of evolutionary, biological (rather than mechanical, surgical) >> processes. > >I'm still not sure you have adequately defined "transgenic." I guess I >would define it as taking pieces of DNA from one species and inserting them >into the germline of different species. > >If you will go along with that definition, then the progress I am speaking >about is not only transgenic. For example, I work with seed vigor and >germinability. We know there are genetic factors involved, but we don't >understand them very well. A lot of the Pioneer germplasm is good in this >regard, but we don't know where most of these genes are. The heritability >is not very good (ie, it is hard to measure) because the tests for seed >vigor in lab and field are not good. >If we understood the biology better >and had better markers, we could make sure new seed parents all were >excellent for seed vigor. Seed vigor is just a very small part of what >Pioneer is working on, but most of the genes of interest are already in the >corn genome. Soon Pioneer will have sequenced the expressed portions of the >entire corn genome. But it will take many, many years to put together the >biological jigsaw puzzle. > >> I have said before - the problem as I see it is not with >> the goal (except where the goal is weighted toward >> developing a proprietary more than truly useful >> product) but rather with the methodology. > >Things that are not useful don't last too long in the marketplace. But more >to the point, IMO the social and economic results of the concentration of >genetic knowledge and material into a few private hands, is more >consequential than whether we use this or that promoter or transgene. True, but much of what's happening is fueled by the possibility of obtaining rights to a patented organism. In that sense, the "ownership is more important than the knowlege, which is more like genetics (easily transferred >> 2).- To what extent do the current research priorities of >> "Pioneer, and the other big breeding companies" permit >> (or logically lead to) that. > >I don't have any inside information about this, but I suspect they are >reevaluating how hard to push transgenics in light of European public >distrust. All this will work to Pioneers favor though, because we are very >good at traditional breeding and seed production. Internally we don't have >any bias against transgenics. > >> 3).- What criteria are being used to define quality? (Yield >> is a less complicated measurement - unless you take into > >Defining quality as usefulness of the grain, the directions include better >nutritional quality, energy yield, milling/processing quality, special oils, >reduced mycotoxins, special starches, reduced phytate (reduce P in manure), >along with lots of other more exotic things that IMO don't have a high >chance of success (but who knows?). > >> ...this is not a black and white issue). > >That's for sure! > >Dale Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 19 20:31:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23358 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 20:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA15241 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 19 May 1999 19:55:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA15144 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 19:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA07056 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 19:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.50]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Wed, 19 May 1999 18:54:35 -0500 Message-ID: <199905191853040130.040735EB@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD3E@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD3E@vela.phibred.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Evaluation Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:53:04 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dale Wilson" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Where Biotech's Going - Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA15157 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 911 If reproduction is based on genetics and genetics normally occurs through sex and sex is ideally founded on love (which itself could be considered a mature, controlled and sustained form of desire), just where do GMO's fit in? Just where are you and Pioneer taking us, Dale? Following Monsanto's headlong leap to nowhere? This whole thing is a joke and the funniest thing of all is that it's so obviously garbage. (Of course I just ate 2 K of seedling mangos - but then I hadn't eaten all day. Now I'm chomping on some guamuchiles NEVER grafted as I type this). The insidious thing is that so many people have little or now choice. This stuff, this way of "thinking" is really forced on people, for lack of any prominent and viable alternatives. I am going to start exporting real socially and environmentally responsible tropical food - the world's first international CSA movement, to complement the organic scene - any takers? I'm not kidding. DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 19/05/99 at 1:15 PM Wilson, Dale wrote: >Hello Douglas, > >>> We are beginning to use powerful genetic and informational >>> tools to gain understanding of the biology underlying quality >>> and yield. This understanding is necessary to make much new >>> progress. > >> I would hope that the new progress you speak of is not >> dependant on transgenetic technologies; that is, >> technologies that can NOT be performed within the framework >> of evolutionary, biological (rather than mechanical, surgical) >> processes. > >I'm still not sure you have adequately defined "transgenic." I guess I >would define it as taking pieces of DNA from one species and inserting them >into the germline of different species. > >If you will go along with that definition, then the progress I am speaking >about is not only transgenic. For example, I work with seed vigor and >germinability. We know there are genetic factors involved, but we don't >understand them very well. A lot of the Pioneer germplasm is good in this >regard, but we don't know where most of these genes are. The heritability >is not very good (ie, it is hard to measure) because the tests for seed >vigor in lab and field are not good. If we understood the biology better >and had better markers, we could make sure new seed parents all were >excellent for seed vigor. Seed vigor is just a very small part of what >Pioneer is working on, but most of the genes of interest are already in the >corn genome. Soon Pioneer will have sequenced the expressed portions of the >entire corn genome. But it will take many, many years to put together the >biological jigsaw puzzle. > >> I have said before - the problem as I see it is not with >> the goal (except where the goal is weighted toward >> developing a proprietary more than truly useful >> product) but rather with the methodology. > >Things that are not useful don't last too long in the marketplace. But more >to the point, IMO the social and economic results of the concentration of >genetic knowledge and material into a few private hands, is more >consequential than whether we use this or that promoter or transgene. > >> 2).- To what extent do the current research priorities of >> "Pioneer, and the other big breeding companies" permit >> (or logically lead to) that. > >I don't have any inside information about this, but I suspect they are >reevaluating how hard to push transgenics in light of European public >distrust. All this will work to Pioneers favor though, because we are very >good at traditional breeding and seed production. Internally we don't have >any bias against transgenics. > >> 3).- What criteria are being used to define quality? (Yield >> is a less complicated measurement - unless you take into > >Defining quality as usefulness of the grain, the directions include better >nutritional quality, energy yield, milling/processing quality, special oils, >reduced mycotoxins, special starches, reduced phytate (reduce P in manure), >along with lots of other more exotic things that IMO don't have a high >chance of success (but who knows?). > >> ...this is not a black and white issue). > >That's for sure! > >Dale Douglas M. Hinds, Director Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (Center for Community and Rural Development, Non-profit Association) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 Mexico U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412-6308 (direct - Cd. Guzman, Jalisco) Tel. & Fax: 011 528 922-2424 (direct - Reynosa, Tamaulipas) e-mail: cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx, dmhinds@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 00:40:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA27290 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA11432 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:12:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA11344 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:12:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14464 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:13:00 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990519230603.006f9830@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:06:03 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: Avery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id AAA11381 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 912 Dear Sanet: Regarding Avery's statement that there is insufficient "organic" N to support organic production. This is a serious misunderstanding about the nature of N in agriculutre that, unfortunately is hsared by many organic producers. The reserve of nitrogen for all life on earth is the air--70% is composed of N, which means that over every square inch of soil there is a column of nitrogen weighing down. All life depends on that N being converted into "organic" forms which is done exclusively by microbial action--nitrogen fixation. The art of organic farming is to foment the natural fertility systems in the soil such that there is a constant flow o N into the system. What is insufficient is earth's capacity to handle any more excess nitrogen wastes caused by irrational addition of soluble N to the soil in the form of chemical fertilizers. So-called organic famers contribute to this air and water pollution by N as well, by adding excess organic nitrogen as bloddmeal or excessive amount of animal manure. N pollution has become a serious global ecological problem and it is urgent to develop a sustainble approach to N management in agriculture. In this Avery is way off base, as usual, in his tendentious arguments in favor of corporate interests. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 00:55:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA27390 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA21255 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:26:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA21094 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:26:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14482 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:27:41 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990519232621.006eae08@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:26:21 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id AAA21156 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 913 Frank Teuton wrote, >No, Chilean nitrate is a natural geological deposit, which did give Chile a >virtual monopoly on nitrates until the Haber-Bosch process was >developed...You can look it up in the encyclopedia under sodium nitrate, or >under the evaporite minerals... > I stand corrected, the product referred to as "Chilean Nitrate" is a natural geological depoist found along the coast of Chile. Thank you. I quote from the "Recommendations of the Technical Committee on Chilean Nitrate, an evaluation of its use...in organic agriculture" IFOAM 1989: "The importance given to Chilean nitrate over other nitrate fertilizers must be seen from a psychological point of view, as Chilean nitrate has a false reputaion of being less harmful to soil life and being a more balanced form of fertilizer tha t synthesized nitrogen fertilizers since is it extracted from natural deposits... However, Chilean nitrate remains a feritlizer with high concentration of nitrogen and 100% water solubility. In this respect is does not differentiate itself from other mineral nitrogen fertilizers. It may even have additional detrimental effects. Therefore, the IFOAM Technical Committee recommeds that the use of Chilean nitrate should not be allowed in any standard of orgnaic farming..." Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 00:56:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA27395 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA22458 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:27:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA22320 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA14487 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 23:28:46 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990519232726.006eeec4@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:27:26 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: Sodium nitrate, aka Chilean saltpeter, etc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id AAA22364 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 914 Frank Teuton wrote, >No, Chilean nitrate is a natural geological deposit, which did give Chile a >virtual monopoly on nitrates until the Haber-Bosch process was >developed...You can look it up in the encyclopedia under sodium nitrate, or >under the evaporite minerals... > I stand corrected, the product referred to as "Chilean Nitrate" is a natural geological depoist found along the coast of Chile. Thank you. I quote from the "Recommendations of the Technical Committee on Chilean Nitrate, an evaluation of its use...in organic agriculture" IFOAM 1989: "The importance given to Chilean nitrate over other nitrate fertilizers must be seen from a psychological point of view, as Chilean nitrate has a false reputaion of being less harmful to soil life and being a more balanced form of fertilizer tha t synthesized nitrogen fertilizers since is it extracted from natural deposits... However, Chilean nitrate remains a feritlizer with high concentration of nitrogen and 100% water solubility. In this respect is does not differentiate itself from other mineral nitrogen fertilizers. It may even have additional detrimental effects. Therefore, the IFOAM Technical Committee recommeds that the use of Chilean nitrate should not be allowed in any standard of orgnaic farming..." Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 01:05:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27475 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA24123 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:33:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA24101 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d23-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.23]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA13881; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:33:17 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Victoria Mundy" , Subject: RE: Avery/nitrogen sufficiency/laws of thermodynamics Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:46:01 +1000 Message-ID: <000801bea27b$a8f5a2e0$173325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990520105559.006b50ec@pop.uky.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 915 Victoria drew attention to: "an article published in _Choices_ magazine (First Quarter 1997, p. 10-13), [in which] Mr. Avery ... says that we do not have enough organic nitrogen to support organic production. He suggests that the only way to get the necessary N is to clear forests to plant more legumes. " This kind of argument seems to me to be based on some simple single direction ideas of how systems work - as in the trophic pyramid description to show humans at the top of the heap, eating vast resources, from which it is at times argued that humans should be vegetarians, not carnivores. All organisms produce wastes and these contain high quantities of nitrogen and lots more; systems are immensely complex, our organic approach to the soil is based on a view of the importance of the organic life in the soil. We benefit not just from all these nice little folks being in the soil, but from the little deposits they leave behind. If we stopped piling our own organic waste into rivers and oceans, stopped adding heavy metals and other poisons to it and took our own and other organisms' wastes seriously, we'd realise that the total cycle of products of organisms in any ecology should be sufficient to maintain that ecology. Urban society apparently has enough to swim in. We make a start on all this at our farm with a composting toilet and bottles for the boys, rather than a septic tank imitation of blush free, flush and forget urban human waste disposal. I think we can really trip ourselves starting with the mathematically simplistic laws of thermodynamics. Systems do not necessarily proceed towards entropy (though this may be the perception of someone who wants another order than that towards which the system is heading). Many reactions may travel in one direction, but whole system pathways can find their way back to where they came from and to better things. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 01:15:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27567 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA03209 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:43:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA03199 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool511-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.145.11]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24505; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374215BF.DEAF5118@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:37:04 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Nigh CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Roly-poly plague References: <3.0.1.32.19990516105735.006e6424@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 916 Do you mean pill bugs, sow bugs? I can tell you what is written in the Organic Method Primer UPDATE, if you want. Ronald Nigh wrote: > Dear SANET, > I remember that there was a discussion about roly-poly bugs a few months > ago, though I can't seem to find the references. A man here in San > Cristobal has a serious problem with them in his orchid house. He has a > remarkable collection and is hoping to work with communities here for > orchid conservation and tourism. I think of roly-polies as more a nuisance > than a plague but he tells me that they come out en masse in the night and > inflight considerable damage on the productive potential of his orchids by > nibbling on the grwoing root tips. This impedes growth and flowering. > This "dry season" has been more humid than usual (fortunately) but this has > increased the problems as the roly-polies thrive. He has tried a number of > obvious solutions (chile, garlic sprays etc.) but desparate form something > more effective that does not involve the use of poisons. Can anyone help us > with this problem? > > Ronald Nigh > Dana, A.C. > Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas > Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) > danamex@mail.internet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 01:15:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27571 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA03295 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:44:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA03288 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA10994 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool511-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.145.11]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25629; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37422802.D12D35B9@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:54:58 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edna M Weigel CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Roly-poly plague References: <19990516.212720.3574.1.eweigel@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 917 I just wonder, sometimes, why I put in those terrible 15 years on the Primer UPDATE with its huge chapter on insects.---if no one is going to read it. Edna M Weigel wrote: > Ronald Nigh wrote: > > I remember that there was a discussion about roly-poly bugs a few > > months ago, though I can't seem to find the references. > > I assume you are talking about those creatures that resemble > miniature armadillos maybe 1/2 inch long (with, I think, 10 legs). I > grew up in Kansas calling them "sow bugs." They supposedly eat only dead > plant material and cause no economic harm, but CAN be serious pests--I've > had them eat the fruit of strawberries and the entire plant of small > seedlings. I'm not sure how much this will help, but I recall the thread > of discussion you refer to. You might find the discussion by searching > for "sow bug" or "pill bug." As I recall, someone asked for help with a > plague then later complained about lack of response. That complaint > brought protests that the scientific name wasn't used and one comment to > the effect that they are supposed to eat only dead plants but sometimes > don't wait for the plant to die. I don't recall any controls being > suggested. > I would expect more than usual humidity would contribute to their > numbers. About control, while I was living and gardening in Phoenix, I > gave up using mulch entirely because they were especially hard on mulched > plants. Now that I am out of the city (outside Sierra Vista in southeast > Arizona) I find I can successfully mulch, but I still have large numbers > of sow bugs. They seem to fill the niche usually thought of for > earthworms, which are nonexistent where I am now. My chickens love them > and I see large numbers only in my compost and only if I manage to keep > it reasonably moist. I'm even building compost pits in the chicken yard > to encourage those creatures because my chickens need winter-time > protein. > Would it be possible to use poultry in the orchid greenhouse? A > friend told me that guinea hens like sow bugs even better than chickens > do, and guineas supposedly are kinder to gardens than chickens. I > suggest this with reservations, however, because a friend gave me 4 adult > guineas and I had such a miserable time with them that I gave them to > another friend within 2 weeks. > Also, how about diatomatous earth (DE)? I've not tried it, but > my intuition says it might work. There is a difference of opinion about > the specifications for DE; some say that you must buy insecticide grade > while others insist that the DE used in swimming pool filters works > nearly as well. I think DE is also a component of many scouring powders > like AJAX. > These are the only ideas I can come up with at the moment. Good > luck. > -- Edna Weigel > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 01:20:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27655 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA03416 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:45:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA03405 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA11054 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool511-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.145.11]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26759; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374245DC.C7EBCEED@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:02:20 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Liebhardt CC: Dean Nelson , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Henry A. Wallace Institute References: <199905181854.LAA17114@franc.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 918 right Bill Liebhardt wrote: > At 10:47 AM 5/18/99 -0400, you wrote: > >I just got a packet in the mail from the Henry W. Wallace Institute for > >Alternative Agriculture. They seem to be pretty well heeled with major > >contributers being the Kellogg Foundation and Pew Charitable Trust. Is > >this a lobbying group like Concerned Citizens for the Environment which > >is a front group for chemical manufacturers? I really hate having to be > >so cynical, but I would hate worse being taken for a ride. > > Dean, this is a group that works on agricultural policy and related issues > from a sustainable agriculture perspective. They are dedicated, hard > working, honest people and you will not be taken for a ride. I was on > their board for six years. I am telling you this so that you have some > sense of my experience with them. They are not deep in cash and funding > for them is usually a problem. If all groups were as ethical as the Henry > A. Wallace Institute the world would be a much better place. > > Bill > > > > >Dean > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 01:22:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA27684 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 01:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA03355 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:44:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA03347 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 00:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool511-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.145.11]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26248; Wed, 19 May 1999 21:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37423296.CA1922C3@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:40:06 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Clark CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: FW: Farmers Part of the Global Warming Solution References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 919 and to think the tremendous row kicked up when Faulkner wrote about the plow. Tsk tsk Andy Clark wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: ARS News Service [mailto:isnv@ars-grin.gov] > Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 10:18 AM > To: ARS News List > Subject: Farmers Part of the Global Warming Solution > > NEWS RELEASE: > Farmers Now Part of the Global Warming Solution as U.S. Agriculture Becomes > Net Carbon Sink > > ----------- > ARS News Service > Agricultural Research Service, USDA > May 17, 1999 > Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov > ----------- > > WASHINGTON, May 17, 1999--Sometime in the past 15 years, American farmers > turned an environmental corner, Agricultural Research Service Administrator > Floyd Horn announced today. > > "A dramatic change in tillage techniques shifted U.S. farm soils from net > carbon dioxide producers to net accumulators of carbon--in the form of > valuable soil organic matter. This makes their soils more productive and > part of the potential global warming solution, rather than part of the > problem," Horn said. "American farmers have virtually abandoned the > moldboard plow used to break open the American West." > > Horn said that Raymond R. Allmaras, a soil scientist with the U.S. > Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Research Service in St. Paul, > Minn., made these findings after a thorough search of published reports and > surveys for several major crops, comparing 1940 to 1990 conditions. > > "These reports showed that, in 1980, 75 to percent of American farmers were > still using the plow. By 1993, a USDA survey showed that farmers used the > moldboard plow on only 6 to 9 percent of corn, soybean, and wheat fields," > Horn said. > > Horn said Allmaras used yield records to estimate amounts of crop parts that > would be left after harvest. "He also used long-term tillage experiments > conducted by himself and ARS colleagues nationwide. Dale E. Wilkins, an ARS > agricultural engineer in Pendleton, Oregon, assisted him in the study," Horn > said. > > Allmaras said that one of his tillage experiments showed there was no carbon > accumulation in soils during a 10-year period when corn and soybeans were > planted after annual plowing; another showed that abandoning the moldboard > plow produced distinct increases in soil carbon in as little as 10 years. > > "The soil is storing more carbon that otherwise might be in the atmosphere > as carbon dioxide, which is one of the greenhouse gases thought to cause > global warming," Allmaras said. "The plow lifts and inverts an 8 to 12-inch > slice of soil, and also buries stubble and other unharvested crop residue > that was once on or near the surface. That places the residue deep in the > plow layer where different microbes live. These microbes convert the residue > to a form of carbon that readily converts to CO2, which can escape to the > atmosphere," he said. > > As farmers put aside the plow, they leave more residue on the soil or within > a depth of 4 inches, Allmaras said. "For example, corn and grain sorghum > farmers are returning about twice as much residue than in 1940, and they are > keeping it on or near the surface. Here, the residue readily decays to > valuable organic matter, a more stable carbon compound and a key component > of the black, fertile prairie soil originally broken open by the plow. The > moldboard plow robbed the soils of the increased organic matter offered by > the yield increases since 1940," Allmaras said. > > Allmaras said the dramatic shift away from the moldboard plow has altered > the farm landscape in another equally broad way: the reduced tillage and > increased organic matter in the soil has led to a looser, less erodible soil > that holds more water for crops. "This noticeable shift in the soil is the > main reason farmers have abandoned the moldboard plow," he said. > > Horn added that farmers too often are criticized for causing environmental > problems. "Here's a case where they're definitely part of the solution, and > for that, they deserve a pat on the back," he said. > > ---------- > Scientific contact: Raymond R. Allmaras, ARS Soil and Water Management > Research Unit, St. Paul, MN, phone (617) 625-1742, allmaras@soils.umn.edu. > ---------- > This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information > distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the > latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. > * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. > * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD > 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 06:46:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA00152 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA10513 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:08:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (greensoft.com [204.77.123.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA10502 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 06:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905201008.GAA10502@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.184] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AEE35640B2A; Thu, 20 May 1999 05:07:31 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:07:18 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Nitrogen in organic agriculture Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 920 I should think if any group would understand that use patterns and results would be all over the map, it would be *this* one. That said, a few observations. Many (perhaps most) of the organic farms that I inspect do *not* capture enough nitrogen to maintain a productive system over the long term. In that respect Avery and some of the other naysayers have a valid *empirical* point. These farms, however, are almost always short of nitrogen owing to poor nitrogen management (insufficient N fixation, manure management problems, etc.). It is entirely possible for a well-managed organic farm to capture all the nitrogen needed for "high-yield" production. In fact, it is not at all uncommon for an organic system to become too *rich* in nitrogen one or two rotation cycles after the transition, at which point the grower shifts to mixed hay (rather than straight legumes) and things settle down. Virtually all farmers (organic and otherwise) neglect the valuable role played by molybdenum in improving the efficiency of nitrogen capture. With well-considered additions of molybdenum, it is quite possible to capture more solar energy (through increased yields) than can be released from an equal weight of uranium via nuclear power. A few grams per hectare is usually all that it takes, added with inoculant at seeding. This because the nitrogenase component of the rhizobial nitrogen fixation reaction is dependent on an Fe-Mo protein, with moly being the limiting factor. Editorial comment about Chilean nitrate --- if organic is to allow any soluble nitrogen at all, it should be in the form of ammonium sulfate, not as a nitrate. Every other nutrient sulfate is already permitted, and AS is much better for soil microbes than the nitrates. Also, any idea that an organic inspector can determine the difference between 10-20 kg/ha nitrate and 50-60 kg/ha or even more (split apps) is ... pure fantasy. I have to chuckle when the naysayers criticise organic production as "inefficient" when their Farm Bureau buddies routinely knife in 400 units of anhydrous per acre every autumn and then have to come back over their corn with liquid 28 the following season just to make sure they have "enough." Conventional American agriculture is "efficient" (I suppose) in the same way as the American consumer economy. You can jump into a 2-ton SUV and drive it three blocks to pick up a 2-ounce packet of razor blades, and marvel at the "efficiency" of it all--- and look down one's nose at the scruffy unshaven neighbours -- but it is tragically laughable to conclude from that situation that walking and bicycles are inadequate. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 10:07:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA03973 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11269 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:26:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from staff1.cso.uiuc.edu (root@staff1.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.59]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11199 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bl101-84.nres.uiuc.edu (bl101-84.nres.uiuc.edu [128.174.101.84]) by staff1.cso.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12177 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 08:26:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990520082510.00c9d6dc@staff.uiuc.edu> X-Sender: aslan@staff.uiuc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:25:10 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Dan Anderson Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1036 In-Reply-To: <199905192128.RAA05141@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 921 In response to Victoria's post (below), Mark David and Lowell Gentry are doing some fresh N work here in Illinois. They have one paper published and one in review. It might give you a place to start. The papers are: Nitrogen Balance in and Export from an Agricultural Watershed. Journal of Environmental Quality, vol26, no. 4, July-August 1997 Historical Trends in Net Anthropogenic Inputs of N and P and Riverine Export in a Predominantly Agricultural U.S. State. Journal of Environmental Quality (in review). --Dan >In an article published in _Choices_ magazine (First Quarter 1997, p. >10-13), Mr. Avery brought up a point that I'd appreciate some research >direction on...it appeared to be a point that does need addressing instead >of dismissing. > >He says that we do not have enough organic nitrogen to support organic >production. He suggests that the only way to get the necessary N is to >clear forests to plant more legumes. > >Of course his suggestion is narrow-minded and he ignores a whole raft of >issues such as conservation of N and sensible usage, but the question of >N-sufficiency did give me pause. I especially had to stop to think because >most of the organic farmers I talk to *do* tend to import N in the form of >off-farm compost, off-farm manure, etc. Their goal is always not to have >to do so, but this goal seems difficult to achieve. > >I'd welcome ideas, especially those that lead me to the library. Dan Anderson Agroecology/Sustainable Agriculture Program University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Dept. of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences W-503 Turner Hall 1102 S. Goodwin Urbana, IL 61801 MC-047 217/333-1588 217/333-7370 fax aslan@uiuc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 10:53:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04929 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA03012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:07:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02999 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:10:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'nesare@zoo.uvm.edu'" Subject: Northeast SARE seeks Council members Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:10:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 922 Please address questions/nominations to NE SARE nesare@zoo.uvm.edu -----Original Message----- From: Helen Husher [mailto:hhusher@zoo.uvm.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 9:42 AM To: SAN@nalusda.gov Northeast SARE Seeking Nominations The Northeast Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education program has four positions opening on its Administrative Council. Members of the Northeast SARE Administrative Council help set policy, review grant proposals, and oversee program development. There is also opportunity for selected committee assignments. Applicants and nominees should be active in the agricultural community and have an understanding of the issues in sustainable agriculture. Materials on the SARE mission and the work being done by the program are available from the Northeast Region office at the address below, and at www.uvm.edu/~nesare/. The four opening slots opening are in the following areas: * A representative from a nonprofit interested primarily in environmental issues; * A representative from an agriculturally oriented nonprofit; * A person involved in rural economic development; and * A representative from the for-profit sector in agriculture or agribusiness. Appointments to the Northeast SARE Administrative Council run three years. The time commitment includes three meetings each year and the time involved in reviewing selected grant proposals. Costs associated with attending meetings are paid by the program. To apply, or to nominate a candidate, please send or e-mail the person's name and contact information, along with a brief description of qualifications and background, to Northeast SARE, Hills Building, University of Vermont, Burlington, Vermont 05405. E-mail: nesare@zoo.uvm.edu. Applicants and candidates from nonprofits should also include a brief history of the work and mission of their organization. ************************************* Helen Husher Writer/Editor Northeast Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) Program Hills Building -- Carrigan Drive University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405-0082 Phone: 802-656-0554 Fax: 802-656-4656 ************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 11:11:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05428 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13228 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13215 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05847 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA27340; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:22:23 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xmaa26850; Thu, 20 May 99 09:21:51 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:21:51 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD42@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Douglas M. Hinds'" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Where Biotech's Going - Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:19:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 923 Douglas, > If reproduction is based on genetics and genetics normally > occurs through sex and sex is ideally founded on love (which > itself could be considered a mature, controlled and sustained > form of desire), just where do GMO's fit in? Come on! this is a big gray area and you know it. Plenty of extreme manipulation is done using sex as a tool. Take animal breeding for example, or plant breeding. When we put shoot and tassel bags on thousands of corn lines and self them for six generations, how natural is that? How much love do you think is involved in that? Trying to derive some threshold of the "natural" beyond which it is evil to trespass will get you in trouble. No matter how stringent you are, someone, more "natural" still, will condemn you for manipulating nature. Doing agriculture in any form is unnatural from a frame of reference more defensible than yours. I would argue that manipulation of the environment is totally natural. From the tiniest cell, life is a struggle to maintain homeostasis. I could bring up all manner of examples from all the kingdoms, of cells and larger organisms manipulating the environment beyond the membrane using all manner of toxic materials, mechanical contrivances, and behaviors. I see an unbroken line of struggle for space, security, and resources from the very beginning of life all the way up to a breeder selecting disease resistance, the board room at DuPont, all the way to a Kosevar Albanian grabbing his coat on the way out the door of his already burning home. That doesn't mean that it is all good, just that appeal to natural law is a blind alley. I suggest a more pragmatic approach to deciding what is good for people and the environment than appeal to natural law. > Just where are you and Pioneer taking us, Dale? Hell if I know! Modernity is a wild beast running at top speed. > This whole thing is a joke and the funniest thing of all is > that it's so obviously garbage. I don't understand what exactly you think is a joke. > (Of course I just ate 2 K of seedling mangos - but then I hadn't > eaten all day. Now I'm chomping on some guamuchiles NEVER > grafted as I type this). I wish I had a mango right now, but I sure wouldn't eat 2 kg at one time ;-) > This stuff, this way of "thinking" is really forced on > people, for lack of any prominent and viable alternatives. I know you mean grafted fruit and all that, but the bigger question is the evolution of culture, and how we can see beyond our culture. > I am going to start exporting real socially and > environmentally responsible tropical food - the world's first > international CSA movement, to complement the organic scene - > any takers? I'm not kidding. You know, half the people on this list will condemn you because they regard long-distance shipping as unnatural. I'm interested because I'll bet your produce tastes good. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 11:15:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05536 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13355 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rfd1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.175.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13348 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:23:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emily.oit.umass.edu by rfd1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29083) with ESMTP id <0FC100NA7BXQV8@rfd1.oit.umass.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trf@localhost) by emily.oit.umass.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA22964; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Fetter Subject: Re: chilean nitrate In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990519232621.006eae08@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: trf@emily.oit.umass.edu To: Ronald Nigh Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Reply-to: Rob Fetter Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: emily.oit.umass.edu: trf owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 924 Ronald Nigh: > I quote from the "Recommendations of the Technical Committee on Chilean > Nitrate, an evaluation of its use...in organic agriculture" IFOAM 1989: > > [...] > > Therefore, the IFOAM Technical Committee recommeds that the use of Chilean > nitrate should not be allowed in any standard of orgnaic farming..." Yes indeedy, but as of 12/1998 it was allowed (with restrictions) by at least eleven of eighteen US organic certification programs in a comparison of organic standards I am currently finalizing. Those eleven include two IFOAM-accredited programs (Oregon Tilth, which is phasing it out now and prohibiting completely as of November 1 1999, and CCOF, which prohibited as of January 1 1999). (Ronald, was the date on your quoted piece 1989 or 1999?). Anyway, I think I now have a feel for why it is allowed by some organic programs - and why it *was* allowed, by most, until relatively recently: (1) it is natural, and (2) it gives a good shot of soluble nitrogen. One more specific question: does it work better in cold soils than some other nitrogen sources? (This is what I have heard before, but from not-necessarily-reliable sources.) Rob ***************** T. Robert Fetter Research Assistant Dept. of Resource Economics Draper Hall University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 phone 413-545-5716 fax 413-545-5853 trf@student.umass.edu Check out the Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog at http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 11:15:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05554 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA14514 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:27:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA14498 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 10:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26907>; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:29:51 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Roberto Verzola cc: lonrom@hevanet.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99May20.092951cdt.26907@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:25:25 -0500 Subject: Re: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global Warming Solution) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 925 It may have been at first, but in the district where I was the district ag-rep, the no-till/low-till guys who'd been doing it for a while generally used less chemical than anybody else. If they survived the first couple of years, they learned how to walk their fields, map their fields & widen rotations to reduce weed problems systemically. The no-till guys also used half-rates, one third rates & spot applications when they did spray. They also chose more competitive varieties & tinkered combine settings to maximize crop residue (we usually call that mulch on this list). After 10 years of no-till, they usually had more organic matter, less weeds, less disease problems than their neighbours & maybe even a few worms! When I said to one fellow that he had a lot in common with organic farmers, he was insulted but that doesn't change the reality. All in all, the no-till guys I have come into contact with usually regard weedy corners as an indication of a problem requiring a program (rotation change, seeding timing, more competitve variety, residue mngmt etc). Thats very different from what conventional farming has come to be: "Tell me what to spray & how much" Tillage per se does not make soil less productive, but the wrong tillage at the wrong time on the wrong soil can lead to destructive erosion. In large portions of n Africa & s. Europe that were once productive ag zones during the Roman empire there is barren desert today. The causes were complex (monoculture, warfare, punitive taxation, corporate farming etc). The farmers did know that their land had become unproductive so they simply abandoned To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 12:13:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07185 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20011 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:38:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19950 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.76] (pa-ppp40.hevanet.com [204.119.60.76]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11307; Thu, 20 May 1999 08:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905201537.IAA11307@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:40:55 -0700 Subject: FW: Making Harvests More Nutritious From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Bargyla Rateaver , Don Chapman , Organic Gardening Discussion List , Seed Savers Exchange Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 926 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Making Harvests More Nutritious Date: Thu, May 20, 1999, 7:30 AM STORY LEAD: Making Harvests More Nutritious ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 20, 1999 Hank Becker, (301) 504-1624, hbecker@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- While most crop breeding focuses on better yield or pest resistance, Ross Welch is exploring ways to breed crops to help alleviate shortages of trace elements and vitamins in the diets of many people around the world. For billions of people, plant foods don't provide enough of these micronutrients, which are critical to health. The most prevalent micronutrient problem, iron deficiency, affects more than 2 billion people. Zinc, iodine, essential trace elements and vitamins are other critical micronutrients that can be deficient in some diets, according to Welch, a plant physiologist with the Agricultural Research Service in Ithaca, N.Y. He and colleagues have launched an international effort to pinpoint rice, wheat, corn, bean and cassava varieties that are high in micronutrients. Their goal: plants that more efficiently take up micronutrients from soil and transport them to edible plant parts in forms the human digestive system can take up and use. Already, Welch's team has found enhanced ability to accumulate iron and zinc in 24 genetic types of common bean from the seed bank of the International Center for Tropical Agriculture in Cali, Colombia. In the 24 genotypes, they found iron levels of 51 to 157 micrograms per gram of dry weight and zinc levels of 30 to 65 mg/g. In rat feeding studies, the iron bioavailability ranged from 53 to 76 percent. This diversity is strong evidence that breeders could produce new varieties with higher content and bioavailability of iron and zinc. Recent tests of bioavailable iron and zinc levels in fifteen IRRI rice lines also found some exploitable diversity. The scientists plan future rat studies to determine iron and zinc bioavailability in selected micronutrient-enriched lines of rice, wheat, corn and cassava. A story about the research appears in the May issue of Agricultural Research magazine and on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/harv0599.htm ARS is U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Ross W. Welch, ARS U.S. Plant, Soil and Nutrition Research Laboratory, Ithaca, N.Y., phone (607) 255-5434, fax (607) 255-1132, rmwl@cornell.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 12:16:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07285 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20889 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:40:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20834 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 11:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA10180 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 08:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA28735; Thu, 20 May 1999 08:40:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:40:52 -0700 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: Calif. looking for IPM Innovators Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 927 Below is a press release from the California Department of Pesticide Regulation. We are seeking nominations for our IPM Innovators award. See the last paragraph for how to get further information. **************************************** Kathy Brunetti California Department of Pesticide Regulation ***************************************** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE May 20, 1999 (99-12) Media Contacts: Veda Federighi (916) 445-3974 Glenn Brank (916) 445-3970 http://www.cdpr.ca.gov DPR Seeks Nominees for Innovator Awards SACRAMENTO -- When it comes to honoring actors, it's the Oscar. For musicians, it's the Grammy. And for pest managers, it's the IPM Innovator award from Cal/EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation. DPR Director Paul Helliker today issued a call for nominations for 1999 IPM Innovator awards. "We want to publicly recognize organizations and companies that are finding resourceful, ingenious new ways to fight pests," said Helliker. "IPM innovators have demonstrated statewide leadership in increasing the benefits and reducing the risks of pest control." IPM, or integrated pest management, is an approach that combines biological, cultural, physical, and chemical tools to effectively manage pest problems with minimal disruptions to the environment. Since DPR established the program in 1994, it has recognized 47 Innovators, ranging from major agricultural producers to urban community groups. The program encourages cooperative, local problem-solving and fosters an environment where pesticide users are willing to try innovative practices. IPM Innovator award criteria include: * a history of using biological and cultural pest control techniques to deal effectively with pests in a particular situation or pest management system; *use of pesticides only when necessary to achieve acceptable levels of control with the least impact on non-target organisms and the environment; and *a demonstrated willingness to share technical information with others, as well as research and development efforts that stress communication with peer groups. Individuals may nominate their own organizations or another group or company as an IPM Innovator. Nominations are due by June 23, 1999 and may be supported with fact sheets, articles, brochures, and other documentation. For information or to obtain a nomination form, contact Charles Hunter, Environmental Monitoring and Pest Management Branch, 830 K Street, Sacramento, 95814-3510; call (916) 324-4264, or e-mail <. Online information and nomination forms are available at <. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 13:00:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08297 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA15496 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:21:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15428 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:21:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from schilling.ucdavis.edu (root@schilling.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08401 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Liebhardt (ars97.ucdavis.edu [169.237.82.97]) by schilling.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.11) with SMTP id JAA06091 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905201621.JAA06091@schilling.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: fzliebha@mailbox.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:23:13 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Bill Liebhardt Subject: Fwd! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 928 I debated about sending such a serious post on values, work and the meaning of life but I thought you all could handle this and see the humor and wisdom of the following. Bill Liebhardt > > > >>> >The American businessman was at the pier of a small coastal > >>>>> Mexican > >>>>> >>village > >>>>> >> >when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the > >>>>> small > >>>>> >>boat > >>>>> >> >were several large yellowfin tuna. > >>>>> >> >The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his > fish > >>>>> and > >>>>> >>asked > >>>>> >> >how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a > >>>>> little > >>>>> >>while. > >>>>> >> >The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and >catch > >>>>> more > >>>>> >>fish? > >>>>> >> >The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's > immediate > >>>>> >>needs. > >>>>> >> >The American then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of > >>>>> your > >>>>> >> >time?" > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play > >>>>> with > >>>>> >> >my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the > >>>>> >>village each > >>>>> >> >evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I >have > >>>>> a > >>>>> >>full and > >>>>> >> >busy life, senor." > >>>>> >> >The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. > >>>>> You > >>>>> >> >should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a > >>>>> bigger > >>>>> >>boat, > >>>>> >> >with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several > >>>>> boats, > >>>>> >> >eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead >of > >>>>> >>selling > >>>>> >> >your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the > >>>>> processor, > >>>>> >> >eventually opening > >>>>> >> >your own cannery. You would control the product, processing > and > >>>>> >> >distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal > fishing > >>>>> >>village > >>>>> >> >and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you > >>>>> will > >>>>> >>run your > >>>>> >> >expanding enterprise." > >>>>> >> >The Mexican fisherman asked, "But senor, how long will this >all > >>>>> >> >take?" To which the American replied, "15-20 years." > >>>>> >> > "But what then, senor?" > >>>>> >> >The American laughed and said that's the best part. "When the > >>>>> time > >>>>> >> >is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock > >>>>> to > >>>>> >>the > >>>>> >> >public and become very rich, you would make millions." > >>>>> >> >"Millions, senor? Then what?" > >>>>> >> >The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small > >>>>> coastal > >>>>> >> >fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, >play > >>>>> with > >>>>> >>your > >>>>> >> >kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the > >>>>> >>evenings > >>>>> >> >where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your > amigos." >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 13:01:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08310 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA17852 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:23:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA17778 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08440 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 12:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-12.nidlink.com [216.18.141.19]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA23973; Thu, 20 May 1999 09:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990520162950.00bc1b04@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:29:50 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, Biotech-Wg@igc.apc.org, biotech_activists@iatp.org From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Different Strokes Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 929 The U.S. and Europe are surely worlds apart when it comes to dealing with scientific evidence of potential and actual problems with GMOs and risks from animal drugs/pesticides. Today's two big news stories provides a compelling example of just how far apart our cultures are. May 20, 1999 issue of Nature contains the report from Cornell where entomologists showed in the laboratory that pollen from GMO corn can kill a significant portion (44%) of Monarch butterflies feeding on it. The same day, the European Union invokes the precautionary principle and announces that it is "freezing" further consideration of Pioneer's application for approval of its Bt-transgenic corn. News clip below sets forth the details. The other big story -- very, very important -- is the strong evidence re antibiotic resistance and livestock use and over-use of antibiotics. Several posts have already been made on the two articles in the just-released New England Journal of Medicine. Based on what experts in the field are saying, the new data clearly falls in the "sound science" and "very compelling" category. Yet unlike Europe's swift action on the pending Bt corn application, here in the U.S. the animal drug and livestock industry will continue to fight any restrictions, will nitpick the science, suggest that its over-treatment of ear-infections on transatlantic flights, will call for another NAS study, etc etc. More and more people are noticing the decisive differences in the willingness and political ability of U.S. public health and regulatory agencies to act in the face of adverse information documenting real risks. Reticence to act in the U.S., and the reasons prudent, low-cost actions are routninely blocked or delayed, are more about political science than sound science. As more people realize this, public confidence, here and abroad, in the safety of the food supply and adequacy of regulatory oversight will erode. The consequences could be both significant and long-standing because trust, once lost, is hard to regain. The clip follows announcing the European Union's decision. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Thursday May 20, 7:52 am Eastern Time EU says to freeze approval procedure of gene maize BRUSSELS, May 20 (Reuters) - The European Union executive said on Thursday it would freeze an approval procedure for a genetically modified maize developed by Pioneer Hi-Bred International (NYSE:PHB - news) following a U.S. study which found that other pest-resistant grains could kill butterflies. ``We would of course want to apply the precautionary principle and there's no way any new products can be approved where this information might have any value or any bearing on that approval process,'' a European Commission spokesman told the EU's daily news briefing. The spokesman for European environment commissioner Ritt Bjerregaard said the decision would affect the Pioneer product, which the Commission had been preparing to send up to EU ministers for approval after it failed last year to win a majority for clearance among lower-level experts. ``That will not be done until we have had the opportunity to evaluate this new information,'' the spokesman said. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 13:49:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09408 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09641 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:01:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09580 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id MAA224048 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 20 May 1999 12:01:15 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990518052444.00f23930@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 05:24:44 -0500 To: ecomda@danenet.wicip.org, STEVENSON@aae.wisc.edu, klemme@aae.wisc.edu, mgs@aae.wisc.edu, ramcnair@facstaff.wisc.edu, schuster@aae.wisc.edu, rajbhandary@aae.wisc.edu, kmtaylor@aae.wisc.edu, eabird@facstaff.wisc.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, don@tifton.cpes.peachnet.edu, jfoley@facstaff.wisc.edu, blborns@facstaff.wisc.edu, eabird@facstaff.wisc.edu, kmcsween@facstaff.wisc.edu, eggert@mail01.dnr.state.wi.us, eandrews@facstaff.wisc.edu, liebl@epd.engr.wisc.edu, campbell@aae.wisc.edu, mfinster@bus.wisc.edu From: "Stephen Layman" (by way of "Michelle M. Miller" ) Subject: Higher Education's Best Practices for Sustainable Development Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 930 *** apologies for cross-postings *** - Are you interested in joining thousands of your colleagues who have found there is a place that promotes Best Practices and case studies in higher education chronicling sustainability "on the ground"? - Do you work in the classroom, campus or community seeking solutions to environmental issues using an interdisciplinary approach? - Are you willing to share your experiences with collaborators who can help expand the Education for Sustainability movement through an internationally recognized Internet resource? You are invited to explore and add your story to Second Nature's online "EFS Profiles" database < http://www.2nature.org/programs/profiles.nsf >. Inclusion of your project in our EFS Profiles database will help promote your leadership to our substantial and continually growing audience of users. The www.2nature.org website receives thousands of hits per week from members of the higher education community and interested stakeholders. Second Nature's EFS Profiles database already includes over 130 examples of how others have been making changes for and around sustainable development at their colleges and universities and in the surrounding communities. The EFS Profiles database encompasses work in curriculum change, campus greening, community involvement, sustainability research and institutional transformation. These profiles have been gathered into this database with the intent to spark new ideas and allow those planning new sustainability projects to benefit from the insights and experiences of colleagues. Second Nature < http://www.2nature.org > is a nonprofit organization working to help colleges and universities expand their efforts to make environmentally sustainable and just action a foundation of learning and practice. Education for Sustainability (EFS) is a lifelong learning process that leads to an informed and involved citizenry having the creative problem-solving skills, scientific and social literacy, and commitment to engage in responsible individual and cooperative actions. Please contact me directly at < sbolton@2nature.org > if you have any questions or comments. We truly look forward to hearing from you and hope you will visit our website soon. Thank you, Steve Layman Bolton Manager, Electronic Resources Second Nature, Inc. 44 Bromfield Street, Fifth Floor Boston, MA 02108-4909 USA Tel: (617) 292-7771 ext. 124 Fax: (617) 292-0150 Email: sbolton@2nature.org http://www.2nature.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 14:06:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09845 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA23259 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:29:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA23199 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00CFAE4A@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:28:27 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 20 May 99 13:29:25 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 20 May 99 13:29:16 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:29:06 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Avery & N supply In-reply-to: <199905192128.RAA05141@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <5FBD6AB7F00@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 931 Victoria Mundy wrote: > Hello everyone, > In an article published in _Choices_ magazine (First Quarter 1997, p. > 10-13), Mr. Avery brought up a point that I'd appreciate some research > direction on...it appeared to be a point that does need addressing instead > of dismissing. > > He says that we do not have enough organic nitrogen to support organic > production. He suggests that the only way to get the necessary N is to > clear forests to plant more legumes. Victoria, how about addressing the major pollution problem of nitrogen runoff? Much of this *is* from commercial fertilizers, but there is a lot that also comes from livestock operations. Why is it that "waste disposal" of N-rich manures is such a big problem for many dairies and other livestock operations at the same time that people are paying big bucks for synthetic nitrogen? I think that Avery's assumptions only make sense assuming that we continue this assinine custom of leaving major breaks in the nutrient cycle. >most of the organic farmers I talk to *do* tend to import N in the >form of off-farm compost, off-farm manure, etc. Their goal is >always not to have to do so, but this goal seems difficult to >achieve. Certainly cover cropping in a crop rotation is critical, but if this isn't sufficient, maybe organic ag needs to take a clue from the biodynamics people and give some consideration to making their operations into "farm organisms." The first part of this having livestock on the land -- the natural source of high quality nutrients, including the precious nitrogen. One last comment, manures need to be properly handled (composted) for ultimate nutrient value and food safety. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 14:16:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA10082 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA29588 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:37:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29486 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool024-max9.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.124]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id L26SLKRJ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:37:45 -0400 Message-ID: <37444AC6.3098EAB8@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:47:50 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: awiediger@Hart.k12.ky.us, Sanet Subject: farmers markets /local food Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 932 >but it is discouraging to watch people pass up our beautiful, >organic, picked yesterday produce for stuff shipped in from who knows where, >picked who knows how many days ago. >Paul and Alison Wiediger What the hell are shipped in foods doing at this farmers' Market? Farmers' Markets are only supposed to consist of farmers selling what they grow, preferably w/ in a 100 - 200 mile radius, not be just some crap trucked in from florida or california- Perhaps the best solution here would be to push for new laws to make your market "certified", where merchants must be able to prove that they grow what they sell- Furthermore, you should call your govenor, legistlature etc, and explain to them that this situation is harmful to their constituents (you local farmers) AND that the benefits to the state's economy are much greater from local produce than from imported stuff- Maybe, just maybe some one will listen- good luck- phil gillman southland farmers' market association California To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 15:03:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11105 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA17547 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moose.uvm.edu (moose.uvm.edu [132.198.101.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17403 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elk.uvm.edu (elk.uvm.edu [132.198.101.63]) by moose.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA511218 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:15:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (fmagdoff@localhost) by elk.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA137640 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:15:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: elk.uvm.edu: fmagdoff owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:15:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Frederick R. Magdoff" X-Sender: fmagdoff@elk.uvm.edu To: sanet Subject: Bt corn and butterflies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 933 Saneters, THought you might be interested in this article from today's (May 20) New York TImes.---- FRED Pollen From Genetically Altered Corn Threatens Monarch Butterfly, Study Finds By CAROL KAESUK YOON ll around the country, farmers are about to finish sowing millions of acres of a genetically altered form of corn that protects itself from pests by producing a toxin in its tissues. But researchers report on Thursday that this increasingly popular transgenic plant, thought to be harmless to nonpest insects, produces a wind-borne pollen that can kill monarch butterflies -- a species that claims the corn belt as the heart of its breeding range. Researchers said that the laboratory study, conducted by a team from Cornell University, provides the first evidence that pollen from a transgenic plant can be harmful to nonpest species. As such, the study is likely to become part of the growing debate about whether genetically engineered crops may have unforeseen effects on the environment. Transgenic crops have proven tremendously popular with American farmers in recent years. This season the new pest-resistant corn, introduced by seed companies just three years ago, is being planted on an estimated 10 million to 20 million acres out of an 80-million-acre corn crop nationwide. Known as Bt corn, it carries a gene derived from a bacterium, Bacillus thuringiensis, that produces the Bt toxin, killing corn borer pests that try to eat the plant. The researchers fed monarch caterpillars leaves of milkweed, their only food, which had been dusted with Bt corn pollen, regular corn pollen or no pollen. Half of those fed Bt corn pollen died within four days, while all those fed regular corn pollen or no pollen survived. The study, published on Thursday in the journal Nature, was written by Dr. John E. Losey, an entomologist, Dr. Linda S. Rayor, a behavioral ecologist, and Maureen E. Carter, a biologist. The Bt toxin itself is already known to be lethal to many butterflies and moths. Researchers said this suggests that butterfly or moth species other than the monarch could be affected by the transgenic plant, particularly those that live on plants like milkweeds that are often found in and around corn fields and could be dusted by Bt corn pollen. But researchers note that the effect of Bt corn pollen on populations of wild insects is unknown. Academic researchers praised the study as a first step toward understanding a previously unsuspected risk. "Nobody had considered this before," said Dr. Fred Gould, insect ecologist at North Carolina State University. "Should we be concerned? Yes." Dr. John Obrycki, an entomologist at Iowa State University, called the new study "solid" and said: "You now have a novel means of distributing Bt toxins in the environment. This is a technology that's being promoted and we haven't really considered all the consequences." Representatives from Novartis Agribusiness Biotechnology, Monsanto and Pioneer Hi-Bred International Inc., the top sellers of Bt corn, challenged the significance of the findings for monarch caterpillars, also known as larvae, outside the laboratory. Researchers estimate that Bt corn is a product worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually. Taking issue with the methods and conclusions of the study, Rich Lotstein, vice president of public affairs for Novartis Agribusiness Biotechnology, said, "Even if Dr. Losey's results are real, which they could be, the exposure is still minimal, and the impact is extremely small, if any." Researchers, including the authors, said it is still unknown how much of an impact Bt corn pollen is having on wild monarch populations. "I would be very surprised if there are no monarch larvae being killed," Losey said. But he added, how many are being killed, "that's the big question." Researchers said they do know from a study published last year that it is the corn belt, which includes such states as Iowa, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio, that produces about half of the monarchs that migrate each year to Mexico. And across that geographic expanse, said Dr. Karen Oberhauser, an ecologist at the University of Minnesota, there was certainly potential for corn pollen and monarch caterpillars to cross paths. "There are a lot of monarch larvae around in July and August and that's when pollen is being shed," she said. "The timing is exactly wrong." How much milkweed is close enough to corn fields to be at risk of receiving a dusting of pollen is unknown. But as Dr. Marlin Rice, entomologist at Iowa State University, put it, in many heavily farmed states, "if you're a monarch, odds are you're going to be close to a cornfield." Monarchs are not considered endangered, but Dr. Lincoln Brower, a monarch biologist at Sweet Briar College in Sweet Briar, Va., said the butterfly faces a growing number of pressures. The No. 1 threat, he said, is still logging in the butterfly's winter resting grounds in Mexico. Other threats include roadside mowing and the use of herbicides on milkweeds. Whatever level of threat Bt corn pollen turns out to pose, it is almost certainly less damaging to monarchs and insect diversity in general than the spraying of insecticides. But Obrycki said that in many areas of the country, farmers do not typically spray for corn borer. Still others viewed the new study as a broader sign of the danger of transgenic crops and the need for tighter regulation. Dr. Margaret Mellon, director of the agriculture and biotechnology program at the Union of Concerned Scientists, said: "Why is it that this study was not done before the approval of Bt corn? This is 20 million acres of Bt corn too late. This should serve as a warning that there are more unpleasant surprises ahead." Dr. Phillip O. Hutton, chief of the microbial pesticides branch at the Environmental Protection Agency, which regulates the commercial availability of Bt corn, declined to comment on the new study, saying the paper had not yet gone through the agency's scientific review. In addition to Bt corn, the EPA has approved Bt potatoes and Bt cotton, both of which are commercially available. For the farmers, losses of monarch butterflies -- which neither help nor hurt crops -- may be hard to measure against the gains from this powerful new product. Previously, farmers had to scout their crops diligently for signs of the corn borer and spray at just the right time in an infestation to kill them. Now they can plant Bt corn and let the internally produced toxins do all the work. "It's an amazing technology," said David Linn, a corn and soybean farmer in Correctionville, Iowa, who plants Bt and regular corn. "Does it kill more monarchs or not? That's so far down on the list of things we have to decide about." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 15:14:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11362 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA27928 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:37:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27899 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.133]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15444 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 13:38:21 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990520133647.006f65c4@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:36:47 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: chilean nitrate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA27921 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 934 Dear Rob, Thank you for that information. (the date is IFOAM 1989). I think that the idea that Chilean nitrate is "natural" and therfore good for organic agriculture is a good example of the confusion about organic standards. The "naturalness" we are trying to preserve in organic agriculture doesn't refer so much to the "natural origin" of certain inputs as it does to the effects of those inputs on the "natural" fertility systems of the soil or the "natural" growth and development of plants and animals. The only difference between Chilena nitrates and synthetic fertilizer would be assoicated salts or the trace elements in the raw material, several of which remain in the product after processing. Iodine, for example gives the characteristic smell. Boron is also present. According to the IFOAM report however the concentration of the is less than 3ppm for all. If potassium perchlorate is not properly removed it can damage crops. We have found that chemical fertilizers in the tropics can be more damaging to soil microorganisms due to generally higher biological actitivity in warmer soils. Organic matter is decomposed more rapidly, etc. Perhaps damaging processes move more slowly in colder soils and that explains its "doing better" i.e. less bad. Regards, Rob Fetter wrote: >Yes indeedy, but as of 12/1998 it was allowed (with restrictions) by at >least eleven of eighteen US organic certification programs in a comparison >of organic standards I am currently finalizing. Those eleven include two >IFOAM-accredited programs (Oregon Tilth, which is phasing it out now and >prohibiting completely as of November 1 1999, and CCOF, which prohibited >as of January 1 1999). (Ronald, was the date on your quoted piece 1989 or >1999?). > >Anyway, I think I now have a feel for why it is allowed by some organic >programs - and why it *was* allowed, by most, until relatively recently: >(1) it is natural, and (2) it gives a good shot of soluble nitrogen. > >One more specific question: does it work better in cold soils than some >other nitrogen sources? (This is what I have heard before, but from >not-necessarily-reliable sources.) > >Rob >***************** >T. Robert Fetter >Research Assistant >Dept. of Resource Economics >Draper Hall >University of Massachusetts >Amherst, MA 01003 >phone 413-545-5716 >fax 413-545-5853 >trf@student.umass.edu > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 15:38:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA11881 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07982 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:57:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07959 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:01:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: GE Crops on NPR (Diane Rehm) program on Agricultural Biotechn ology Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:01:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 935 SANET: I don't know if this is broadcast nationally on NPR....? > -----Original Message----- > From: Karl Schneider > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 1:05 PM > To: NAL Users > Subject: NPR (Diane Rehm) program on Agricultural Biotechnology > > FYI; > > Today at 10am there was a one-hour discussion and call-in program on > Agricultural Biotechnology on the Diane Rehm show, from WAMU 88.5 FM. This > will be rebroadcast tonight on WAMU at 9:00 pm. > > Callers' questions obviously can alter the range and scope of discussions. > RealAudio versions of the program will be accessible from the site noted > below, sometime later today, or by tomorrow, anyway. > > [Copied text from the page at: http://www.toad.net/~wamu/drhi.html > ] > > "Today agricultural bioengineers working for seed companies are > using technology to limit > the way farmers work, including creating plant varieties > that are sterile. American innovation > isn't going over very well in Europe, where concerns about > the long-term effects of > consuming bioengineered fruits and vegetables has > contributed to trade tensions. > A panel talks about bioengineered plants and seeds: how safe > they are and how they're > changing American agriculture and trade. > > GUESTS > John Vidal, environmental editor for The Guardian > Nina Fedoroff, director of the Life Sciences Consortium and > Biotechnology Institute at > Pennsylvania State University > Margaret Mellon, Union of Concerned Scientists > > Enjoy ?? / !! > - Karl To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 15:52:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA12320 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA16206 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:11:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16163 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA15566 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:12:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990520140821.006f980c@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:08:21 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: Nitrogen in Organic Agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA16183 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 936 Dear SANET, Excellent post , Bart. >It is entirely possible for a well-managed organic farm to capture all >the nitrogen needed for "high-yield" production... Amen! It is not only possible, it is absolutely necessary! >Virtually all farmers (organic and otherwise) neglect the valuable role >played by molybdenum in improving the efficiency of nitrogen capture...This because the >nitrogenase component of the rhizobial nitrogen fixation reaction is dependent on an Fe->Mo protein, with moly being the limiting factor. And of course the exact same nitrogenase (only one has eolved) catalyzes free-living N fization as well. If moly is present, however, we should attend the other factors limiting microbial N fixation (energy is often the next one; Ca or P can also be a problem) and the factors that limit stabilization of that N in organic forms (i.e. avoiding nitrification, etc.) This is the essence of N management. All soluble salts of N, including Ammonium Sulfate, inhibit microbial N fixation, a very good reason to avoid becoming dependent upon them. Regards, Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 16:34:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13324 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01747 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:42:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01731 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:45:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: May-June 1999 CSAS Newsletter Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:45:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 937 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, news@psupena.psu.edu From: Pam Murray Subject: May-June 1999 CSAS Newsletter May-June 1999 CSAS Newsletter The Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems (CSAS) in the Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources (IANR) at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln (UNL) is an interdisciplinary center formed in 1991 for the purpose of bringing together people and resources to promote an agriculture that is efficient, competitive, profitable, environmentally and socially sustainable for the indefinite future. The electronic version of this bimonthly newsletter is sent to SANET and PENPages several days before those on our mailing list receive their hard copy. The newsletters are also available along with other sustainable ag information on our World Wide Web page: http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas. Note: The electronic version is not sent to individual e-mail addresses. To be added to the "hard copy" newsletter mailing list beginning with the next bimonthly issue (not sent to overseas addresses), or for questions or comments, contact the newsletter editor, Pam Murray, Coordinator, Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, PO Box 830949, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, NE 68583-0949, 402-472-2056, fax -4104, e-mail: pmurray1@unl.edu. Comments about the content or usefulness of this newsletter are always welcome. * * * CONTENTS: THE FARMER AND THE DEAN UNIVERSITY ROLE IN BIOTECHNOLOGY: WHO OWNS GENES AND DIVERSITY? CSAS VOLUME 9 DISCUSSES WATERSHEDS SARE APPOINTS PAULA FORD NORTH CENTRAL PDP COORDINATOR POLICY PROJECT IDENTIFIES RETENTION OF FARMS AND FARMLAND AS TOP PRIORITIES OLSON HEADS TO KENTUCKY ORGANIC GRAIN FARMING WORKSHOPS TWO ALTERNATIVE AGRICULTURE CONFERENCES IN MIDWEST RESOURCES COMING EVENTS DID YOU KNOW? * * * THE FARMER AND THE DEAN It must be in the water. Yes, now that I think back on it, there must be something in the water of Virginia to produce such brilliantly original and crystal-clear visionaries as Joel Salatin and William McDonough. Very different people, coming from wholly different backgrounds, deducing and applying the same general principles to completely different endeavors. The land that produced Thomas Jefferson and Meriweather Lewis continues to give us innovation and direction for the future. Salatin is widely known to graziers and holistic thinkers. He is a down-home, no nonsense farmer/philosopher with strong Christian roots. His special gift is creating and then linking disparate enterprises to achieve clearly defined ecological, economic, and family goals for the farm. I've heard him speak several times, and have read his books - Pastured Poultry Profits, Salad Bar Beef, and You Can Farm - rejoicing each time in his out-of-the-box insights and gracious manner of sharing. McDonough, Dean of the School of Architecture at the University of Virginia, was unknown to me when I walked into his keynote address at a conference earlier this year. Tall and spare, where Salatin is compact and wiry. Erudite and worldly, where Salatin is plain-spoken and earthy. Anecdotes from Wal-Mart and Nike vs. pig-fishing and eggmobiles. But underneath it all, these two must have been born under the same star (or perhaps it was that Virginia water) because their message is the same: a. A healthy system is one that is designed to internalize flows, and in so doing, to capture ecological and economic synergies while eliminating (not just reducing) adverse off-site impacts. b. If it doesn't make money, don't do it. Entrepreneurship personified. Period. c. Just do it. Both are "can-do" people, who walk the walk, as well as talk the talk. Both celebrate human creativity, in themselves and in others. Each has an impressive record of up-and-walking achievements, testifying to the real-world applicability of their other-worldly ideas. d. Love, respect, and honor are central. Salatin is one of the very few speakers I've ever heard who unashamedly puts his family - and yours - front and center. He says that you can't farm sustainably if you don't grow the next generation of farmers and give them the skills and perspective to value their heritage. How very true, but how many of us conceptualize and then constructively enact it? McDonough's guiding principle is to design systems that "love the children - all the earth's children, all species, for all time, free from intergenerational tyranny." However, unlike many well known orators, his design prescription is more than sage words. He employs it as a powerful, intellectual screen, serving clients with a combined annual gross income of $400 billion. Does a system that applies millions of pounds of toxic, carcinogenic, mutagenic, and/or teratogenic compounds to millions of hectares of farmland "love the children for all time?" Some systems generate more energy than they consume - via passive solar and other technologies. Others produce more oxygen than they use - with built-in greenhouse/aquatic systems to purify wastes and release oxygen as well as CO2. Yet others are so well designed that they can release their effluent upstream from themselves - effluent that is now so clean that there is no risk of harming the occupants. These are examples of systems that "love all the children, all species, for all time." e. Humility in all things. Brilliance without pretense. Genius bereft of guile. As someone who works in an academic environment, I find this alone worth the price of admission. Imagine it - farsighted people, acting humbly and reverently, deriving universal design principles from systems as diverse as a family farm and a textile factory. In a few, well-chosen, breathtakingly evocative words, McDonough said that "regulations are an indication of design failure." He noted that if regulations are needed so that we "kill each other less quickly," then we need to go back to first principles and rethink the system itself. This is exactly what Salatin has done. Deep change is needed - not tinkering and refinement to comply with regulations. The sense of this vision is well captured in Steingraber's powerful metaphor from which the title of her book, Living Downstream, is drawn. She describes the perplexity of villagers on a hypothetical river who see an increasing number of drowning people floating by. The villagers become increasingly adept at rescuing these unfortunates, devising all manner of sophisticated technologies for retrieval and resuscitation. However, they are so busy saving the drowning victims that they don't have time to go upstream and see who is pushing them in. In a very real sense, this is precisely what has happened to agriculture today. What an inordinate waste of human creativity and natural resources - quantifying allowable levels of biocide residue down to the nanogram level instead of pursuing the exhilaration of designing farming systems that don't need them in the first place. The real legacy of organic farming is not simply a means of producing healthy food, but as a design model for channelling natural processes to the service of humanity, based not on problem solving but on problem avoidance. Roy Berg and Mick Price, then Dean and Associate Dean of the College of Agriculture and Forestry at the University of Alberta, wrote an article for the February 1992 issue of Cattleman magazine, an issue that is traditionally devoted to profiling innovative producer approaches to solving calving problems. They said: "A visitor from outer space reading the February calving issue of Cattlemen for the past few years could be forgiven for thinking that pregnancy is a disease that breaks out seasonally in our cow herds and can be only be cured by an invasive procedure called 'calving'." Berg and Price argued that many of the problems addressed by the producer-contributors were in fact caused by simply layering one linear technology upon another without addressing the root cause of the problem in the first place. For example, rather than accept that difficult calving was caused by a mistake in * first generation technology - intentionally choosing a bull that throws large calves, and breeding for late winter calving to boost fall weaning weights, producers tended to apply * second generation technology - an improved calf puller which produces an exhausted cow and a cold, weak, and listless calf, unable to stand and suck, calling forth * third generation technologies - calf heaters, medication to ward off stress-induced illness, colostrum warmers, and calf movers. "Pretty soon, we've got technology piled on top of technology trying to solve problems that we wouldn't have if we had carefully examined the technology we were using in the first place" (Berg and Price, 1992). These respected cattlemen and academics then outlined the economic and logistical benefits of a system that mimics nature. Timing calving to coincide with the flush of spring growth instead of the deadly cold of late winter vests responsibility for a healthy calf directly in the cow - where it belongs - instead of compelling producer intervention with more technology. The intent of their design was to avoid the need for remedial technologies in the first place, just as McDonough's designs avoid the need for regressive regulations. Another succinct gem from the pen of McDonough is "food=waste." Can there be a human on the planet who exemplifies this better than Salatin, with his use of pigs for in-situ composting of beef manure and chickens for sanitizing parasites on pasture? In McDonough's world, food=waste translates into two parallel but non-overlapping metabolisms - one of "technical" nutrients, as the parts of a TV or carpet, and the other of "biological" nutrients that are decomposable. So long as the two metabolisms are isolated from each other, the "nutrients" in each are infinitely recyclable. No waste is generated because, in his words, you eliminate the very concept of waste. Neat trick, eh? So, I'm thinking that we should take the hard-won lessons so freely offered by these folks and create a new enterprise for the next Industrial Revolution. Why don't we bottle up that water and spread the gift around to those of us who don't live in Virginia? Powerful principles, generalizable across the breadth of human enterprise, revealing designs that are universal and robust. So simple, yet so profound. Submitted by E. Ann Clark, Plant Agriculture, University of Guelph, Guelph, ON CANADA (aclark@plant.uoguelph.ca) UNIVERSITY ROLE IN BIOTECHNOLOGY: WHO OWNS GENES AND DIVERSITY? Third in a Series. There is growing debate about the emerging role of universities in research and applications of biotechnology. Current interest and investment in production and use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) have sparked a revolution in university research laboratories and fields. Perhaps no single set of new techniques and potential technologies has caused such a substantial short-term shift in focus of people and resources in universities. We hope that encouraging debate within the university community and among our clients will help inform people of the issues and aid in charting a rational strategy for the future. Ownership of Genetic Material "Who owns nature? Scientists are ransacking the jungles and rain forests for tomorrow's miracle drugs," began the cover story of the November 30, 1998 international edition of Time Magazine. The article deals with potential cures for malaria and prevention of cancer, yet the same question has been raised about genetic resources for our major food crops. Since the rapid growth of plant patents began in Europe and the U.S., the question has come up: Who owns the original germplasm or sources - the raw materials needed for improving our crops? Nebraska's five major crops come from the far corners of the globe: corn from Mexico, soybean from China, wheat and alfalfa from the Crimea and Mediterranean regions, and sorghum from Ethiopia. Our only native crop is sunflower. Some biotechnologists argue today that genetic variation can be created in the laboratory, and this minimizes the need for plant exploration or gene banks for the future. Practical plant breeders argue that genetic collections in storage and cultivars still to be discovered will continue to provide the basis for improved varieties and hybrids of today's crops as well as the new species important for food in the future. So ownership of these genetic stocks is vital, and we have an interest in keeping them available. The same is true in Scandinavia where most crops have distant centers of origin. Different Natural Resources Our major natural resource in the Midwest is fertile farmland. Our economic success is based on this resource that we exploit through efficient farming and ranching to produce food for ourselves and for export. The resource is "place bound" in the sense that it cannot be exported, although we do send thousands of tons of topsoil down the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers each year. The nature of our resource makes it difficult for us to understand the needs of people in a tropical location where their major resource may be genetic materials that are of interest to the rest of the world. These genetic resources once discovered and exported are gone forever, and there is no continuing benefit to those who have lived with and protected those resources for centuries. The global industrial model based on possession and ownership, even protected by patents and law, ignores the local human dimension. The moral issue is: Should anyone own nature? What is Being Done? Plant patenting has become a major issue for the improvement of crops over the past three decades. Patents are obviously important to protect a large research investment in development of new crop varieties. Commercial success allows the scientific advances to be passed on to farmers, bringing varieties that are resistant to pests and pathogens or with superior nutritional value to reduce costs of production or increase the value of the farm product. Critics argue that patents have discouraged the exchange of genetic resources among plant breeders, making it more difficult to pool the collective knowledge and expertise in developing varieties that will benefit a wider range of farmers and consumers. The international research centers, current keepers of a large proportion of the world's genetic resources for major food crops, have recently adopted a policy of patenting their collections to keep them available to plant breeders around the world rather allowing them to be locked up. This is an innovative way to deal with the challenge of maintaining access to germplasm resources. The opposite approach is illustrated by the highly publicized 'terminator gene' technology that kills the embryo of a seed planted by the farmer, thus preventing replanting and locking in a purchase of new seed every season from the same company. These are issues in the genetic improvement of crops that have no simple solutions. What is important is to add the social, ethical and moral dimensions to the debate and widen the discussion beyond immediate economic gains. Is genetic material a commodity that should be locked up for commercial exploitation, or is this a resource that belongs to all? Should that resource benefit the people in the place from which it comes? The debate continues... Next Newsletter: How do we sustain food production? Submitted by Charles Francis (CSAS director on professional development leave) and Geir Lieblein, NLH, Norway CSAS VOLUME 9 DISCUSSES WATERSHEDS Facing a Watershed: Managing Profitable and Sustainable Landscapes in the 21st Century is the ninth in the series, Extension and Education Materials for Sustainable Agriculture, published by the CSAS. The 261-page volume, edited by Heidi Carter, Richard Olson and Charles Francis, contains materials from the North Central SARE Professional Development Program workshops held in summer 1998. The watershed is a place within which a sustainable agriculture can take root. Sustainable agriculture is based upon a knowledge of place, of the particular soils, plants, climate, and people that comprise a farm and community and landscape of which the farm is a part. Without local knowledge, places erode-literally, in the movement of soil from fields to streams, and figuratively, in the decay of community, and the alienation of different groups of people. Americans are increasingly transient, rarely living in one place long enough to come to know it or to care about it. Ian McHarg refers to a generation of "asphalt people" with no knowledge of natural systems and processes. Not everyone has accepted this loss of local knowledge and a sense of place. Volume 9 contains many stories of people who have reconnected with their watersheds and in so doing strengthened their agriculture, environment, and communities. From their successes, failures, and hard-won lessons comes a tool kit for educating, facilitating, and organizing. Chapter contents of Volume 9 as well as information on other publications of the CSAS can be found at http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas/reports.htm. To order, send a check payable to the University of Nebraska for $10.00 US (note it is for Volume 9) to: Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, U. Nebraska, PO Box 830949, Lincoln, NE 68583-0949. (Price includes s&h in U.S.; for air book rate to Canada, add $5; air rate to other countries, check with the CSAS office - this applies to all volumes in the series). For questions, contact the CSAS office, 402-472-2056, csas003@unlvm.unl.edu. SARE APPOINTS PAULA FORD NORTH CENTRAL PDP COORDINATOR The North Central Region (NCR) Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program announces the appointment of Paula Ford as the new Professional Development Program (PDP) coordinator effective June 1, 1999. Ford, who will be housed at Kansas State University, will help network educators, facilitate multi-state and regional educational programs, integrate SARE research results into educational programming, identify farmer and nonprofit leaders to teach agricultural educators, and collect and disseminate SARE educational materials on a region-wide basis. The mission of the NCR PDP is to transfer sustainable agriculture information from Cooperative Extension, Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) and other agricultural personnel to farmers and ranchers. POLICY PROJECT IDENTIFIES RETENTION OF FARMS AND FARMLAND AS TOP PRIORITIES Local working groups participating in the five-year Agriculture Policy Project of the Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture have listed their top agricultural concerns as the loss of farms and farmland, and the need for increased marketing opportunities. The first phase of the project, now in progress, consists of local farm policy roundtables in 12 communities around the country. The goal is to bring together farmers, local officials, business leaders, and others to identify critical food and agriculture-related challenges in their communities, and to develop and implement workable solutions. The needs for policy change from all 12 local roundtables, several regional meetings, and a national meeting will be the starting point for the development of new local and national policy recommendations to be presented to the Administration and Congress. At the same time, the Agriculture Policy Project will fund local projects to implement the recommendations of the roundtables. In addition to farmland preservation and marketing opportunities, other policy issues under discussion include effects of agriculture on air quality, reconnecting farming to communities, agricultural diversification, new farmers, inner city food access, and watershed impacts. For more information, see http://www.hawiaa.org/wagpol.html. OLSON HEADS TO KENTUCKY Many of you have come to know Richard Olson through his involvement in the SARE PDP workshops and the books (Under the Blade, Exploring the Role of Diversity in Sustainable Agriculture) that he co-edited while working on his PhD degree at UNL. Olson spent the past year as a postdoc on several projects, including organizing the 1998-99 CSAS seminar series on alternative farming systems and reintegrating agriculture and community, and teaching a new course he co-designed on urbanization of rural landscapes. In July he becomes Director of the new Sustainability and Environmental Studies (SENS) Program at Berea College. The SENS Program facilitates the integration of sustainability themes throughout the college curriculum, and promotes structural and functional changes that increase the sustainability of the college. As Director, Olson will serve as a resource person for faculty seeking to include sustainability issues in their teaching, provide faculty development opportunities, and develop linkages between the SENS Program and off-campus organizations that address sustainability issues. He will also advise students in the Sustainability Minor, teach several courses, and develop experiential learning opportunities for students. After July 12, his address will be Director; SENS Program, Berea College, Berea, KY 40404. We thank him for his service to CSAS, and wish him well in his new position. ORGANIC GRAIN FARMING WORKSHOPS The University of Nebraska Cooperative Extension, the Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society, and the Center for Rural Affairs will be holding organic grain farming workshops this summer. These workshops will look at the organic weed management, crop rotations, markets, and soil fertility practices of Nebraska's organic farmers. A representative of the Organic Crop Improvement Association will also be present to talk about the organic certification process. The workshops will take place on organic farms and several organic farmers will be present to answer questions. Three workshops have been scheduled for the following dates and locations: August 9th near Randolph, August 14th near Aurora, and August 17th near Clarkson. For more information contact Extension Educator Andy McGuire, 402-254-2280, amcguire1@unl.edu. TWO ALTERNATIVE AGRICULTURE CONFERENCES IN MIDWEST Want to know about producing and marketing alternative and value-added agricultural products? Two events this year can help. Alternative Ag Expo: Diverse Systems that Work will be held in Sioux City, Iowa on August 24. Speakers include Joel Salatin of Virginia, Dick Thompson of Iowa, and Jim Gerrish of Missouri. Contact the CSAS for details. The NCR SARE program is organizing Developing Agricultural Marketing Skills for the New Millennium, to be held November 19-20 in Lincoln, Nebraska. More details on this event will be in the July-August CSAS Newsletter. RESOURCES Amaranth Production Manual for the Central United States: a guide to growing and marketing. $6. High Plains Ag Lab, 3257 Rd. 109, Sidney, NE 69162, 308-254-3918, phrc031@unlvm.unl.edu. Make checks out to University of Nebraska. Sharing the Harvest: A Guide to Community-Supported Agriculture. $24.95. The product of a partnership with Northeast SARE and Chelsea Green Publishing, this book offers case histories, pointers, models, and strategies for starting and running a CSA. Order from Chelsea Green, 800-639-4099. In a new campaign titled "Farming for Profit, Stewardship & Community," USDA is reaching out to producers and USDA employees by providing 'tip sheets' on top resources available on major topics: soil quality, pest prevention, organic production, livestock costs, weed management, crop diversification, planning, networking, and agroforestry. This campaign is part of USDA's efforts to implement the recommendations of the National Commission on Small Farms. Thousands of copies of the tip sheets will be distributed across the country, through USDA field offices and local organizations. For copies of the set of 10 tip sheets, contact Valerie Berton at 301- 405-3186, vberton@wam.umd.edu. The tip sheets are also online at http://www.sare.org/san/tipsheet/index.htm. For more educational resources, see http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/dev/education.html. Other web sites of interest: Union of Concerned Scientists - deals with biotechnology in agriculture, industrial and sustainable agriculture, http://www.ucsusa.org/agriculture/. Whole Farm Planning - covers systems management for farmers and those who work with farmers, http://www.misa.umn.edu/~mnproj/wfp/index.htm. Women In Agriculture Network - learn about the organization, read its newsletters, join a listserv, and more, http://www.wia.usda.gov/. Organic Consumer Association - provides overview of OCA's programs, addresses food safety issues, and has calendar of events, book reviews and resources on where to buy organic products, http://.www.organicconsumers.org. Food Quality Protection Act (FQPA) of 1996 - EPA provides considerable information on this legislation, http://www.epa.gov/oppfead1/fqpa/. International Food Information Council - read about the many issues relating to food nutrition and safety, including pesticide residues, labeling, and biotechnology, at http://ificinfo.health.org/. Planting Your Farm's Future - series of informational leaflets on sustainable farming topics written by ATTRA specialists, http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/leaflets/index.html. COMING EVENTS Contact CSAS office for more information. 1999 July 10 - Field Day at The Grain Place - Farmers, Seeds and Genetics, Marquette, NE July 19-21 - Nebraska Water Tour - Opportunities and Alternatives in Water and Agriculture, Northeast and North Central Nebraska Aug. 7 - Specialty Crops Field Day, Lincoln, NE Aug. 8-11 - Soil and Water Conservation Society Annual Conference, Biloxi, MS Aug. 9-10 - Amaranth Institute 1999 Meeting, Omaha, NE Aug. 9-13 - Nebraska Forestry Shortcourse, Chadron, NE Aug. 9/14/17 - Organic Grain Farming Workshops, Randolph/Aurora/Clarkson, NE Aug. 24 - Alternative Ag Expo: Diverse Systems that Work, South Sioux City, NE Oct. 12-15 - Second National Small Farm Conference: Building Partnerships for the 21st Century, St. Louis, MO Oct. 20-23 - North American Chapter Association for Farming Systems Research and Extension (AFSR/E) Biennial Meeting - Sustaining Agriculture in the 21st Century: Thinking "Outside the Box," Guelph, Ontario, CA, (abstracts due Apr. 1), http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/ Nov. 19-20 - Developing Agricultural Marketing Skills for the New Millennium, Lincoln, NE 2000 Jan. 7-8 - Great Plains Regional Vegetable Conference, St. Joseph, MO For additional events, see: http://www.sare.org/wreg/view_notice_adm.pl http://www.agnic.org/mtg/ DID YOU KNOW? Did you wonder whatever happened to the Fund for Rural America center proposals? Only one was funded, and UNL is one of the partners. The grant creates the national Center for Crop Diversification. Other institutions involved are U. of Missouri (primary award), Purdue U., Iowa State U., Colorado State U., and Oregon State U. An agreement announced 4/6/99 between The Hain Food Group, Inc. and Heinz U.S.A. will allow Hain to market the Earth's Best line of organic baby food products products directly to U.S. retail grocery customers. Earth's Best was the first 100% organic baby food available nationally and remains the leading - and only - full-line organic brand in North America. On 4/13/99 Archer Daniels Midland Co. issued a statement to the media saying: "ADM supports the position of the Corn Refiners Association and National Grain and Feed Association in regard to transgenic corn in that we will not participate in the commerce of the varieties that are not approved by the European Union. If and when the varieties are approved by the European Union, we will participate in the marketing of those grains." According to a new report on the pace of corporate concentration within the "life industry" issued by the Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI), many of the world's largest chemical corporations are changing from industrial chemicals to agribusiness, pharmaceuticals and food. Examples include: since 1996, Monsanto has spent over US$8 billion acquiring seed and agricultural biotechnology companies; in December 1998, Hoechst and Rhone-Poulenc merged to form Aventis - "the world's biggest life science company," with combined sales of US$20 billion per year; the 1997 revenues of Nestle, the world's largest food and beverage corporation, surpassed the entire commercial seed and agrochemical industries; 40% of U.S. vegetable seeds come from a single source, and just four companies control 69% of the North American seed corn market. The report, "The Gene Giants: Master of the Universe?" is online at http://www.rafi.org/communique/19992.html. On 4/27/99 several environmental and public interest groups quit a 50-member advisory panel on food safety. In their letter to EPA (see http://www.nrdc.org/nrdcpro/petit/pestlet.html) the groups said they were resigning because the agency was unwilling "to make hard choices" needed to take the most dangerous pesticides out of service even though they pose a threat to children. Last year the Environmental Working Group withdrew from the advisory group in protest. *********************** Pam Murray, Coordinator Center for Grassland Studies and Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems PO Box 830949 University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 phone: 402-472-9383 fax: 402-472-4104 e-mail: csas001@unlvm.unl.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 17:00:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14058 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA21434 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:18:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21392 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp3.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.103]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA03813 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:15:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00cc01bea2fd$bb9ce5c0$9c4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: References: <5FBD6AB7F00@agecon.uga.edu> Subject: Re: Avery & N supply Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:17:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 938 Dear Anita & friends Anita wrote: > Victoria, how about addressing the major pollution problem of > nitrogen runoff? Much of this *is* from commercial fertilizers, but > there is a lot that also comes from livestock operations. Why is it > that "waste disposal" of N-rich manures is such a big problem for > many dairies and other livestock operations at the same time that > people are paying big bucks for synthetic nitrogen? I think that > Avery's assumptions only make sense assuming that we continue this > assinine custom of leaving major breaks in the nutrient cycle. I think that the problem for today's dairies, et al, of waste disposal, is the concentration of livestock in increasingly confinement-style farming situations. If you jump on Graze-r, you will see that even the smaller dairy farmers are musing about expansion to at least 350 cows to support a single family in the future. Right now, less than 100 is barely getting by, but land is being snapped up by developers, suburbs, etc. There is less land, but more animals "required". Expansion has simply become the only perceived way out of a desperate situation. The pollution comes back to the economic situation...yeah, everyone's screaming about run-off, while they're running to the 7-11 for their cheap gallon of milk. That milk comes from big dairies, with lots of cows & lots of manure with less land to spread it on. We were recently asked by our dairy to donate a day's worth of milk for export to 3rd world countries, as a sort of gimmicky-protest sort of move (yeah, us with our measly 40-cow herd). Also, get this...to cull (read, send to slaughter) 4 cows from my herd (this was asked of all producers...what sort of lunacy is THAT?!) to put a "dent" in the supposed surplus of milk, which drove the prices to a lousy $11-per hundred lbs. for us here on the farm (minus the fed.& state's cut, marketing fees & milk hauling, right off the top, then feed, electricity, vet, etc.) BTW, you can figure out the math...a gallon of milk weighs 8.6 lbs., so SOMEONE'S doing ok. I asked the solicitor of this donation how the heck could I afford this, and mostly WHY should I do it...if there's a surplus why not ask the consumers to buy TWO gallons of milk at the 7-11 & have them dump one!? I could keep my cows and my milk! So perhaps instead of pointing the finger at farmers, we should look to our own individual consumer habits. I remember you saying that you buy organic & that's a great start...but I've come to feel that more connection with one's source of sustenance is really the next step. People devote so little energy/time to their most basic of needs...food. When we lived in the far west suburbs of Chicago, we sought out a dairy farmer in the outlying farm area...in Oswego, IL, who sold raw milk to whoever would line up with their gallon jugs at milking time. It was amusing actually. Some of the local Hispanic folk would come too, for cheesemaking milk...but you know what? We were the only suburbanites there getting our raw milk (it did come to be a fun family-outing sort of thing, and we learned how to make cheese, despite the language barrier, with lime & salt). I think its illegal now, to sell raw milk. Another choice we as consumers have allowed to be taken from us. But I don't really think many have even noticed. > Certainly cover cropping in a crop rotation is critical, but if this > isn't sufficient, maybe organic ag needs to take a clue from the > biodynamics people and give some consideration to making their > operations into "farm organisms." The first part of this having > livestock on the land -- the natural source of high quality > nutrients, including the precious nitrogen. One last comment, > manures need to be properly handled (composted) for ultimate nutrient > value and food safety. As you know, I'm a BD fan & student. I can't think of anything more perfect than spiritual agriculture. It is an honor to be a caretaker of the land. But again, a family farmer who's milking 100 cows hardly has time to grow the feed, harvest the hay, etc. and keep his off-farm job too. The "organism" being multi-faceted requires additional time & energy to develop & maintain. Many farmers today aren't even raising their own young stock...they ship out the calves to heifer farms, where they're raised & sent back bred & ready to freshen! Like factory piecework. This little picture in our minds of the dairy farm you see on the milk cartons is rapidly becoming the only place that such farm "organisms" exists. It's the ideal...but I'd sure like to see the faces of the corporate execs at, for example Horizon, or other mega-organic organizations, when the biodynamic suggestion is made at the board meeting. It really lies in lap of the consumer. Do you really think you will get big financially-driven groups, organic cooperatives, & companies to recognize that food carries more than the basic vitamins & minerals (and a nice price tag) that it actually carries a VIBE? This is going to have to come from the person consuming the food. You should be working on the consumers...that's when I became involved with my food, as a consumer...seeing that old farmer handle those cows kindly...I just knew the milk was better. I rec'd confirmation from "The Secret Life of Plants" that plants respond to human emotion (both negative & positive) and have seen that a happy cow produces better, the hormones produced by a frightened, confined, or mistreated animal are bound to be in her milk, etc. This is a bit far-out for Sanet, I know...but my point is...the farmer only supplies what the public demands...so energy is best directed at the the demand end of the chain. Unfortunately, $ speaks louder than words.... Sorry for the rant... Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 17:01:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA14087 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA29709 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:29:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA29697 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vtso.vt.nrcs.usda.gov (vtso.vt.nrcs.usda.gov [151.121.220.20]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13560 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.usda.gov by vtso.vt.nrcs.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id UAA02879; Thu, 20 May 1999 20:01:51 GMT Message-ID: <37447052.11C4A8E9@vt.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:28:02 -0400 From: "Lynn G. Knight" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Raw Milk CSAs Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3B47AEBA9967AB7E2F27EB20" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 939 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3B47AEBA9967AB7E2F27EB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A local farmer is investigating the possibilities of starting up a CSA for (raw) milk here in Vermont. Does anyone have any experience in this area? We heard that there is a farm somewhere in Colorado that is currently doing this. Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in Advance.... --------------3B47AEBA9967AB7E2F27EB20 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="Lynn.Knight.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Lynn G. Knight Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Lynn.Knight.vcf" begin:vcard n:Knight;Lynn G. x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:USDA NRCS version:2.1 email;internet:Lynn.Knight@vt.usda.gov title:Agricultural Economist tel;fax:(802) 951-6327 tel;work:(802) 951-6796 x241 adr;quoted-printable:;;USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service=0D=0A69 Union Street;Winooski;VT ;05404;USA x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Lynn G. Knight end:vcard --------------3B47AEBA9967AB7E2F27EB20-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 17:31:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15590 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:31:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA14293 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:58:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14277 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:57:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14036 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA19325; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:57:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199905202057.PAA19325@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:57:39 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Gene-Spliced Corn Imperils Butterfly CC: fhbuttel@facstaff.wisc.edu, stauber@compuserve.com, research@ofrf.org, dkaufman@discover-net.net, rlwills@execpc.com, fjeoc@win.bright.net, fgoodman@mwt.net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 940 Howdy, all-- This is the /SF Chronicle/ version of a story I'm sure many of you have seen already today, in /Nature/ or elsewhere. It was front-page news in the NYT this a.m. peace misha ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Gene-Spliced Corn Imperils Butterfly Caterpillars in study die after eating bioengineered plant pollen Glen Martin, Chronicle Staff Writer Thursday, May 20, 1999 Scientists have discovered that pollen from genetically manipulated corn could be killing native butterfly caterpillars in the Midwest, casting a shadow over the emerging industry of bioengineered crops. Although the discovery, reported today in the journal Nature, must be confirmed by more field studies, the authors of the study said it is a warning that agricultural biotechnology may have unintended environmental consequences. In the laboratory study, a group of Cornell University entomologists found that pollen from corn infused with genes from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) is toxic to monarch butterfly larvae when lightly sprinkled on milkweed, the natural food source for the caterpillars. Bt is a natural bacterium that is fatal to caterpillars and other larvae. When its genes are spliced into those of corn, a plant results that produces Bt toxins in its tissues, killing corn borers and other worm-like pests. Bt corn is considered safe for human consumption. Under laboratory conditions, almost half of the monarch caterpillars that ate milkweed dusted with Bt corn pollen died after four days, the Cornell team found. That compares with a 100 percent survival rate for caterpillars that ate milkweed that either was free of pollen or was sprinkled with pollen originating from corn that did not have Bt genes. The implications of the study are ominous. Half of North America's eastern monarch butterfly population is concentrated in the ``corn belt.'' And about 20 percent of the U.S. corn crop, or about 8 million acres, is planted in bioengineered Bt corn, a figure that grows every year. While the plant strains have been credited with greatly reducing pesticide use, any ``drift'' of pollen could prove devastating for native butterflies and moths. Bt is harmless to most insects, but it obliterates caterpillars and other larvae. Linda Rayor, one of the authors of the study, observes that corn is wind pollinated -- meaning its pollen is carried by the wind rather than by bees and other insects. ``When you have a toxin freely dispersed by the wind, it could affect any moth or butterfly larvae feeding near a cornfield,'' Rayor said. ``Our article isn't meant to be alarmist -- but it is a warning, a flag of concern.'' The study could mean that monarch butterflies are at particular risk. Populations of these big, orange and black migratory butterflies have been in steep decline because of pesticide use and habitat destruction. Some environmentalists said the study is an indication agribusiness should go slowly in promoting transgenic crops. ``I think this clearly shows transgenic corn could be a serious threat to monarchs,'' said Rebecca Goldburg, a senior scientist with the New York-based Environmental Defense Fund. ``I doubt if it would push them over the edge by itself, but it adds substantially to the other risks they face.'' But Sarah Hake, a plant geneticist specializing in corn, said she is unsure if the study is valid for field conditions. ``There is a lot of wind outdoors, and corn pollen doesn't usually stick to plants in heavy concentrations, particularly if any distance is involved,'' said Hake, who directs the Plant Gene Expression Center in Albany, California, for the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ``I think it would be difficult to mimic the actual concentrations you'd see under natural conditions. We need to see field research on this now before we can draw any firm conclusions.'' Rayor said Cornell researchers plan to conduct field research this summer, but added that her group took pains to reproduce pollen concentrations expected for milkweed located about 60 yards from a cornfield. Corn pollen typically drifts 60 to 100 yards from the plant under windy conditions. Even if Bt corn could be adversely affecting certain butterflies, say some scientists, those effects must be weighed against the dire environmental effects of heavy pesticide use. The Bt bacteria, which occurs naturally and breaks down rapidly in the environment, was developed as an alternative to chemical pesticides. Anecdotal reports indicate that Bt cornfields are much richer in insect and avian life than Bt-free corn that is sprayed regularly with poisons. ``I essentially believe those reports,'' said Arthur Shapiro, a professor of entomology, ecology and evolution at the University of California at Davis. ``There is no such thing as a risk-free technology. Everything involves trade-offs, and we need to make the best decisions we can based on the best information we have.'' Jay Byrne, a spokesman for Monsanto Co., a St. Louis chemical and agricultural products firm that produces Bt corn, said his company supports further research on the matter. ``We need to objectively assess the risk,'' Byrne said, ``and we have to do everything possible to reduce any risk that exists. But along with many scientists, we are not convinced that laboratory conditions are the same as field conditions. And we should also remember that Bt crops are reducing pesticide use by hundreds of thousands of gallons annually. That is a very substantial environmental benefit.'' John E. Losey, the primary investigator of the Cornell report, agreed with Byrne. ``We need to look at the big picture here,'' he said. ``Pollen from Bt corn could represent a serious risk to monarchs and other butterflies, but we can't predict how serious that risk is until we have a lot more data. And we can't forget that Bt corn and other transgenic crops have a huge potential for reducing pesticide use and increasing yields.'' NEW THREAT TO THE MONARCH Increasingly, farmers are planting a genetically altered form of corn that protects itself from pests by producing a toxin. The plants were thought to be harmless to nonpest insects. But researchers report that the plants produce a wind-borne pollen that can kill monarch butterflies. The pollen is blown onto milkweed, which is food for the monarch butterfly (top right) and the similar queen butterfly (larvae at right). The crop could prove to be a serious threat because the nation's corn belt is the heart of the monarch's breeding range. c1999 San Francisco Chronicle Page A1 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 17:40:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15726 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA22553 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:11:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA22458 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14237 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:10:40 -0500 Message-ID: <199905201608540510.0017EF8B@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD42@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD42@vela.phibred.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:08:54 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dale Wilson" Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Where Biotech's Going - Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA22466 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 941 Dale, Sometimes it's appropriate to wax poetic. You are right that sex is often abused and commercialized. The important part is the motivation and it's hard to fault love. But I was just having a little fun with the theme. The point being that reproduction, genetics, sex and love are possible when founded on tissues, organs and organisms. >Trying to derive some threshold of the >"natural" beyond which it is evil to trespass will get you in trouble. Not when my response is intuitive - how can I get in trouble if I am being true to my own nature? How can you be sure no threshold exists? To me it's palpable. >When we put shoot and tassel bags on thousands of corn >lines and self them for six generations, how natural is that? How much love >do you think is involved in that? I have consistently come out in favor of appropriate human intervention on the one hand and have questioned the methodology behind GMO's on the other. Homeostasis is a good paradigm. The organism (or cell) is doing this internally. It might be said that if the cell (or organism) adapts (doesn't die) then that's proof that adaptation has occurred. However, the conditions were externally imposed and this raises questions that don't come into play when bagging - the integrity of the cell isn't being violated, since the cell itself is going to receive or not whatever pollen gets to it. (Bagging can be used to prevent all but a select pollen source, not only when forcing self pollination, which can't be good - it's redundant and depriving - an end to evolution and perhaps to life itself). Manipulation of a cell is not the same as manipulating the environment - something lives inside the cell. When we "manipulate" the environment in destructive ways, this affects others and there must be accountability. Environments are shared, whereas cells are more autonomous, private. The position a given individual takes on this subject is dependent to a great degree on his or her assumptions, on his or her predisposition and a lot of factors come into play. Your logic has foundation but to my mind has detached itself from elements that are to me, fundamental. But the only unequivocal conclusion that can be reached at this point is that we are dealing with a delicate matter - the roots of life itself, all the answers aren't all in yet. There is a clear and present potential for abuse that is real to many people. I believe that Pioneer would do well to minimize it's investment in recombinant biotech let Monsanto walk that path alone, publicly. Pioneer could be the one that believes in traditional seed breeding technology and many users would support and adhere to that. >Modernity is a wild beast running at top speed. That is exactly the problem. >I don't understand what exactly you think is a joke. >> (Of course I just ate 2 K of seedling mangos - but then I hadn't >> eaten all day. Now I'm chomping on some guamuchiles NEVER >> grafted as I type this). These mangos speak for themselves. The joke is that they aren't exported to the US, where importers ask for Tommy Atkins, Haden, Kent, Keitt, Ataulfo and other varieties that are generally (99.9%) grafted - but by custom, not necessity. Not enough real food, evolution based, is available in the US and in comparison, the GMO's are feeble attempts to construct something special that misses the mark because the wrong variables were considered and the right ones weren't. >I wish I had a mango right now, but I sure wouldn't eat 2 kg at one time ;-) The seedling mangos I was eating: While both their taste and effect is an intense experience, there's not a lot of meat on them. I didn't weigh them but the 2 Kg includes seed and skin I am buying a box (near 60 lb for this last box) a week. I may not finish it but if I were to buy by the kilo the price would be much higher per kilo, it would take time to select them and I am ordering the box which is put aside for me on arrival. There is no doubt that an important amount of insight comes from eating these and other fruits with which I feel I share common roots. There's a few things I don't like about Cd. Guzman but their outdoor market is outstanding - very few in Mexico (or perhaps anywhere) come close to it. (Actually, it began as an outdoor market - just as the world began as an outdoor world. As it stands the market is no under one roof - but most stands have metal fronts that roll up and down). >> This stuff, this way of "thinking" is really forced on >> people, for lack of any prominent and viable alternatives. > >I know you mean grafted fruit and all that, but the bigger question is the >evolution of culture, and how we can see beyond our culture. Grafting and GMO's are both derived from the same suppositions and mentality, to my point of view. In order to "see beyond our culture", we need present, accessible and viable alternatives. Breeders should select but work more within the context of the nature or the organism - respect it's origins and integrity to a greater degree; work with it not against it - not be as invasive but rather supportive. I hope you can distinguish the difference. >> I am going to start exporting real socially and >> environmentally responsible tropical food - the world's first >> international CSA movement, to complement the organic scene - >> any takers? I'm not kidding. > >You know, half the people on this list will condemn you because they regard >long-distance shipping as unnatural. I'm interested because I'll bet your >produce tastes good. That hasn't happened - the only responses have been positive and are moving ahead. It looks like there is real interest in developing something concrete. Also, if people are going to eat tropical fruit at all (and they are in most cases), Mexico is in most cases less of a long-distance source than practically anywhere else (depending on what state you're in). There were no negative responses, as yet. Also, I AM basing what I will offer on what I myself prefer. (You are right about the produce tasting good). I try to be congruent. It did occur to me (after sending the last post) that I was having a little fun to some degree at your expense and want you to know that your honesty and insight is a definite plus in my opinion, a solid contribution to the list and elsewhere. And while you may be a little short of (call it intuition) you seem to seek it. And what you seem to seek is apparently genetically based (and not recombinant). BTW: Were you breast fed as an infant? My position was better stated in the post that preceded the one you responded to (tissue, organ and organism based genetics in relation to evolution; calling for a moratorium based on a clear and present danger to the biosystem and the unknown and possible irreversible effects of GMO's on it; having this legislated due to the mercenary nature of the GMO developers, etc.). You are good at what you do. The problem is it's patricide and has no future because it's killing it's past. But that's all right - it won't get far. Douglas *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 20/05/99 at 9:19 AM Wilson, Dale wrote: >Douglas, > >> If reproduction is based on genetics and genetics normally >> occurs through sex and sex is ideally founded on love (which >> itself could be considered a mature, controlled and sustained >> form of desire), just where do GMO's fit in? > >Come on! this is a big gray area and you know it. Plenty of extreme >manipulation is done using sex as a tool. Take animal breeding for example, >or plant breeding. When we put shoot and tassel bags on thousands of corn >lines and self them for six generations, how natural is that? How much love >do you think is involved in that? Trying to derive some threshold of the >"natural" beyond which it is evil to trespass will get you in trouble. No >matter how stringent you are, someone, more "natural" still, will condemn >you for manipulating nature. Doing agriculture in any form is unnatural >from a frame of reference more defensible than yours. > >I would argue that manipulation of the environment is totally natural. From >the tiniest cell, life is a struggle to maintain homeostasis. I could bring >up all manner of examples from all the kingdoms, of cells and larger >organisms manipulating the environment beyond the membrane using all manner >of toxic materials, mechanical contrivances, and behaviors. I see an >unbroken line of struggle for space, security, and resources from the very >beginning of life all the way up to a breeder selecting disease resistance, >the board room at DuPont, all the way to a Kosevar Albanian grabbing his >coat on the way out the door of his already burning home. That doesn't mean >that it is all good, just that appeal to natural law is a blind alley. > >I suggest a more pragmatic approach to deciding what is good for people and >the environment than appeal to natural law. > >> Just where are you and Pioneer taking us, Dale? > >Hell if I know! Modernity is a wild beast running at top speed. > >> This whole thing is a joke and the funniest thing of all is >> that it's so obviously garbage. > >I don't understand what exactly you think is a joke. > >> (Of course I just ate 2 K of seedling mangos - but then I hadn't >> eaten all day. Now I'm chomping on some guamuchiles NEVER >> grafted as I type this). > >I wish I had a mango right now, but I sure wouldn't eat 2 kg at one time ;-) > >> This stuff, this way of "thinking" is really forced on >> people, for lack of any prominent and viable alternatives. > >I know you mean grafted fruit and all that, but the bigger question is the >evolution of culture, and how we can see beyond our culture. > >> I am going to start exporting real socially and >> environmentally responsible tropical food - the world's first >> international CSA movement, to complement the organic scene - >> any takers? I'm not kidding. > >You know, half the people on this list will condemn you because they regard >long-distance shipping as unnatural. I'm interested because I'll bet your >produce tastes good. > >Dale Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 17:40:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15730 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA21338 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:08:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA21310 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA14226 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA19965 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:08:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199905202108.QAA19965@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:07:44 -0500 Subject: bT corn story duplication/apologies X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 942 Sorry, all-- I missed Fred Magdoff's posting of the bT corn story from the /NYT/ this a.m. So the story I posted was somewhat redundant. Thanks, Fred. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pressure? Pressure was when I was a shoeshine boy trying to make it to America. --Sammy Sosa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 18:11:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16341 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08224 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:36:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08137; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool255-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.144.5]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22106; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37439949.F5BAD688@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:10:34 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Teuton CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Sodium nitrate, aka Chilean saltpeter, etc References: <020301bea217$1f1a08e0$6321d2d8@windows98> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 943 Haber process. Wasn't it his wife who committed suicide when he was successful in producing the chemicals used to gas "enemy" soldiers? Frank Teuton wrote: > Ron wrote: > > > >Dear Sanet, > >I'm sorry, but the following is wrong on two counts. > > > >First of all, Chilean nitrate is not "natural geological deposit" but > >rather the bird guano collected from islands off the coast of Chile. It is > >so concentrated that its primary use was in the fabrication of gunpowder, > >until the First World War, when, threatened with being cut off from its > >"natural" source, Germany invented the Haber process to fix nitrogen from > >the air (the basis of the synthetic fertilizer industry). > > No, Chilean nitrate is a natural geological deposit, which did give Chile a > virtual monopoly on nitrates until the Haber-Bosch process was > developed...You can look it up in the encyclopedia under sodium nitrate, or > under the evaporite minerals... > > > >Secondly, I don't know of any organic certifier that has a "a default > >allowance for natural > >substances along with a default rejection of synthetic substances." This > >is ridiculous. Organic certifiers evaluate substances in terms of their > >effects on natural agroecosystem processes or on the quality of the food > >produced. Some synthetic substances are allowed and some "natural" > >substances,as you note, are banned. Among the latter is Chilean nitrates. > > As Loren states, their effect on the soil is virtually the same as > >synthetic sodium nitrate--e.g. negative for soil microbiology in general > >and negative for the environment due to excess N runoff. I am not aware of > >the "20% rule". IFOAM carried out a study on the reasons for the ban and > >has a publication explaining this in detail. > > Andre Voisin mentions the use of sodium nitrate in Grass > Productivity---grass roots would make an excellent capture medium for the > nitrates---and the sodium would only be a problem in low rainfall areas or > where sodium levels were high.... > > Its use is allowed on a restricted basis by ecological landscaping > standards, and at least has been allowed by some organic certifiers....here > checking with the specific certifier you have, or have in mind, seems > appropriate.... > > The best place to get N, if you can, is on-site legumes..... > > Frank Teuton > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 19:06:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17131 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 19:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA13224 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:34:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA13207 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 18:34:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0FC100K5AO35G0@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0FC100NJLO4OJK@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 85256777.0067039F ; Thu, 20 May 1999 14:45:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:43:36 -0400 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1038 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <85256777.006701D8.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 944 Re.: Dan Anderson's comment, "I especially had to stop to think because >most of the organic farmers I talk to *do* tend to import N in the form of >off-farm compost, off-farm manure, etc. Their goal is always not to have >to do so, but this goal seems difficult to achieve." Why should their goal be "not to have to import N onto their farm?" If they have a reasonably productive system that results in ample N and P exported off their farm as part of food or feed, then they must either import N onto the farm--or include an N-fixing crop in their rotations--or suffer the problem of N and P deficiency in their soils. The later in turn can lead to breakdown of the soils and the loss of organic matter. Why does sustainability have to be defined in terms of the individual farm? Why can't it be defined in terms of the watershed or other geographic unit provided that inputs and outputs equilibrate? From an environmental perspective, it doesn't matter. From an economic perspective, it may make perfect sense to be somewhere in the middle of the continuum between total specialization and total independence of the need for imported inputs--and still be sustainable. Dennis Avery's criticisms gain legitimacy the more that the sustainability movement adheres to restrictions on farming practices that cannot be justified by science or common sense. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 22:42:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20158 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA20623 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:02:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (greensoft.com [204.77.123.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA20570 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905210202.WAA20570@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.175] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE5171A05AA; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:00:49 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:00:46 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Different Strokes Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 945 On Thu, 20 May 1999 09:29:50 -0700, Charles Benbrook wrote: > More and more people are noticing the decisive differences in the >willingness and political ability of U.S. public health and regulatory >agencies to act in the face of adverse information documenting real risks. This in a country where the very same agency nevertheless requires a "Nutrition Facts" panel fully informing the American consumer of the protein content of mineral water, while denying any requests for GMO labelling and attempting to eliminate existing radiation labelling. Straight out of Kafka ... Americans have the most complete nutrition labelling of any country in the world, yet I have never seen an un-healthier, less fit lot than this. My cynical side says that in this nation --- where the favourite "vegetable" is French Fries, where Crisco gets 93% of its product revenue from seven southern states, and where close to a majority are obese (not just overweight) --- most people simply don't care whether or not they eat GMOs, and the regulators know it. If you have any doubts, look at photos from American service stations back in the '40s and '50s, and then look around the next time when you tank up. McDonalds was a true watershed in American food, health and nutrition, the arrival of that company pretty well marking the beginning of simultaneous disintegration in the farm economy and consumer health. GMO / irradiation and associated labelling / regulatory issues are but a symptom of the McFood phenomenon, which (I suspect) is why we're having so much trouble getting anywhere with the regulators. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 22:51:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20301 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA29699 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:16:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA29598 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp171.epix.net [205.238.243.171]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA00427; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3744C3CF.7000DCB1@epix.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:24:16 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Elazar CC: Roberto Verzola , lonrom@hevanet.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution) References: <99May20.092951cdt.26907@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 946 Pat Elazar wrote: > > Who have you seen or heard campaigning against tillage? Of course companies who manufacture herbicides will promote them to no till farmers, but as you see below, long term no till will reduce the need for herbicides. It certainly has on my farm. If you talk with any soil scientist, he will tell you that most tillage has a detrimental effect on the soil. Tilling the soil might benefit the farmer in some way, but not the soil and the critters who live in it. > the no-till/low-till guys who'd been doing it for a while generally used less > chemical than anybody else. If they survived the first couple of years, they > learned how to walk their fields, map their fields & widen rotations to reduce > weed problems systemically. The no-till guys also used half-rates, one third > rates & spot applications when they did spray. They also chose more competitive > varieties & tinkered combine settings to maximize crop residue (we usually call > that mulch on this list). After 10 years of no-till, they usually had more > organic matter, less weeds, less disease problems than their neighbours & maybe > even a few worms! > > have > Alot of farmers (especially the conventional) are aware of this and are doing something about it now. I've found the detrimantal effects of tillage to be an issue that a good many sustainable farmers ignore. The moldbord plow has caused significant damage to the quality of soil. Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 20 23:06:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20516 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA10598 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:35:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (greensoft.com [204.77.123.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA10590 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905210235.WAA10590@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.175] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A6262E8067C; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:34:14 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:34:09 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Nitrogen in Organic Agriculture Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 947 On Thu, 20 May 1999 14:08:21 -0500, Ronald Nigh wrote: >And of course the exact same nitrogenase (only one has eolved) catalyzes >free-living N fization as well. There are some fairly good indications that *vanadium* is a facultative (and perhaps obligate) substitution for molydenum in several genera of non-symbiotic nitrogen fixers. I'm trying to find the citations, but so far without success. Some of the non-symbiotic microbes also run with an Fe-S flavour of nitrogenase. Most non-symbiotes would be doing very well to fix 50 kg/ha nitrogen. Except in fairly anaerobic environments -- rice, for example -- I wouldn't go out of my way to encourage them, to say nothing of *add* them to the soil. They are, however, a delightlfully fascinating component of creation. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 00:42:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22027 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 00:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA29148 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:54:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA29120 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:54:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA19493 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 23:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:53:27 -0500 Message-ID: <199905202251450240.0188CEC0@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:51:45 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Bill Liebhardt" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Fwd! - A fish story Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA29121 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 948 Nice story. Too bad it doesn't fly. First of all, the fisherman is filling his immediate needs but not bettering anything. He's just a harvestor, not a sower or a cultivator or a soil fertility improver. As for the capitalist - he suggests nothing better than more of the same, with no consideration for the fact that these are non renewable resources that he did not create nor fortify. There is nothing in his plan that insures the continued presence of the resource he wants to see exploited. Lastly, life in "idylic" mexican seacoast villages with limited infrastucture, resources, communications links, educational institutions and productive opportunities is not what most Mexicans want. This is a back to Eden fantasy and there is no inherent wisdom in poverty. (Even so, I cleaned up the type a bit, to make it more readable. It's still enjoyable, even if it doesn't hold up to analysis). The fisherman was just trying to get by, not dig himself a deeper hole - but there's! not a whole lot of virtue in that. There's a lot more than can be done that's worth doing; gardens and orchards to beplanted, beauty to be created, things to be expressed, things to be built, wrongs to be righted, and rights to be upheld. Even on the Mexican seashore. D H This is not to criticize the post, just dissect it. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 20/05/99 at 11:23 AM Bill Liebhardt wrote: >I debated about sending such a serious post on values, work and the meaning >of life but I thought you all could handle this and see the humor and >wisdom of the following. Bill Liebhardt >> >> >The American businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while. The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish? > >The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The American then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?" > >The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, playwith my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life, senor." > >The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat, with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you will run your expanding enterprise." > >The Mexican fisherman asked, "But senor, how long will this all take?" To which the American replied, "15-20 years." > >"But what then, senor?" The American laughed and said that's the best part. "When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions." > >"Millions, senor? Then what?" The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos." > Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 01:46:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22681 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA14416 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:12:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (IDENT:mail@rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA14340 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 01:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id MAA19955; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:43:43 +0800 Received: (from rverzola@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA06907; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:33:05 +0800 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:33:05 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: Roberto Verzola To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu cc: sgroff@epix.net Subject: no-tillage Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 949 >Who have you seen or heard campaigning against tillage? I just assumed that if farmers abandon tillage within a decade or so, some people must have campaigned vigorously (or perhaps even forced them?) to do so. >The moldbord plow has caused significant damage to the quality of the soil. I am not familiar with all the arguments, but I know that Chinese farmers engage in tillage and I've read that the traditional Chinese farm is actually one of the most energy efficient in the world (much more than a typical U.S. farm). Perhaps one of the reasons is they use animal manure as well as night soil? I still wonder how many of the U.S. farmers who stopped tilling are now completely reliant on herbicides for weed control, and how many made the transition to organic agriculture... Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 08:31:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25830 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA15772 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:48:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA15764 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-13-25.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.217]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA18626; Fri, 21 May 1999 06:47:33 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01bea380$4965c3e0$d95f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: , "Pat Elazar" Cc: "Roberto Verzola" , , Subject: Re: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 06:51:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 950 Steve, Do you really think most that have adapted no-till have widened their rotation? I don't see much besides no-till corn followed with no-till beans around here. I think thats hardly more than an alternation of crops. Its a far cry from a rotation. I don't have any idea on the amount of chemicals they are applying but I would guess that the no-till farmers that use reduced rates are about as few and far between as the farmers who use tillage. I've seen the video on your farm and what you are doing is a very sensible aproach. Very low chemical and low erosion aproach to growing vegetables. I have a very hard time lumping all the no-till farmers in with you. I doubt if most, just like tillage farmers, are not at all concerned about sustainability. I still don't understand why we have to grow so much corn(no-tilled or not) in this country and turn around and feed it to ruminant animals. No-till is better than molboard on erosion but it doesn't compare to untilled grass/legume pasture. Have you got all your vegetables in the ground? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer LaGrange, IN -----Original Message----- From: Steve Groff To: Pat Elazar Cc: Roberto Verzola ; lonrom@hevanet.com ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 9:36 PM Subject: Re: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution) > > >Pat Elazar wrote: > >> > >> > > >Who have you seen or heard campaigning against tillage? >Of course companies who manufacture herbicides will promote them to no till farmers, >but as you see below, long term no till will reduce the need for herbicides. It >certainly has on my farm. >If you talk with any soil scientist, he will tell you that most tillage has a >detrimental effect on the soil. Tilling the soil might benefit the farmer in some >way, but not the soil and the critters who live in it. > > >> the no-till/low-till guys who'd been doing it for a while generally used less >> chemical than anybody else. If they survived the first couple of years, they >> learned how to walk their fields, map their fields & widen rotations to reduce >> weed problems systemically. The no-till guys also used half-rates, one third >> rates & spot applications when they did spray. They also chose more competitive >> varieties & tinkered combine settings to maximize crop residue (we usually call >> that mulch on this list). After 10 years of no-till, they usually had more >> organic matter, less weeds, less disease problems than their neighbours & maybe >> even a few worms! >> >> > have >> > >Alot of farmers (especially the conventional) are aware of this and are doing >something about it now. I've found the detrimantal effects of tillage to be an issue >that a good many sustainable farmers ignore. The moldbord plow has caused >significant damage to the quality of soil. > >Steve Groff > >-- >"Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com >Cedar Meadow Farm >679 Hilldale Rd >Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 10:09:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28502 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA08506 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:21:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA08478 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA14180; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:21:44 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma013429; Fri, 21 May 99 08:21:01 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:21:01 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD44@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Importation of N Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:21:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 951 Andrew, > Why should their goal be "not to have to import N onto their > farm?" If they have a reasonably productive system that > results in ample N and P exported off their farm as part of > food or feed, then they must either import N onto the > farm--or include an N-fixing crop in their rotations--or > suffer the problem of N and P deficiency in their soils. That's a good point. Exportation of nutrients off the farm seems to be a given. > Why does sustainability have to be defined in terms of the > individual farm? Why can't it be defined in terms of > the watershed or other geographic unit IMO, a failure to appreciate spatial and temporal scale is one factor that has resulted in some unproductive effort in the environmentalist community. The watershed would seem to a more natural unit for nutrient management than the farm. > ...provided that inputs and outputs equilibrate? Ideally the nitrogen and phosphorus consumed by humans and animals would be returned to the farm. In current reality, most of it ends up in surface water because the cost of transporting it to the farm is too high. If the externalities associated with casual disposal of these wastes could be captured and priced, transporting sludge and slurry to the farm (not just nearby farms) would become economically feasible. I think public policy will gradually come around to accomplish this. > From an economic perspective, it may make perfect sense to > be somewhere in the middle of the continuum between total > specialization and total independence of the need > for imported inputs--and still be sustainable. Again, this is an issue of scaling. It may be okay for a farmer in Iowa to grow mainly soybeans and corn, because that works well here, while someone in Oregon produces grass seed, because they can do a better job of it there. I think part of what is driving the farm unitization and independence sought by some, is a romantic vision of farming that may not have ever really existed. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 11:05:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29496 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02484 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:08:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hil-img-5.compuserve.com (hil-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.177.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02441 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id KAA18052 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:03:50 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Nitrogen and cycles To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199905211007_MC2-7695-A90F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 952 Sanet, The following excerpt from "Boss Hog's System" (April 3, 98 at www.wshu.org/duesing) gives an example of the nitrogen nonsense that Avery says we can't run organically. I think he is right. Nitrogen's use on farms in the mid west damages soil and water from there to the Gulf of Mexico. Enormous excesses of nitrogen (and other expensively applied nutrients) from animal wastes in North Carolina (or Utah) damage soil, water and communities there. And then some of what's left in the animal ends up passing through the sewage plant into waterways in New England or even, with export subsidies, in Russia. I'm with Greg on pasture. However, in our more urbanized area there are other places to graze. The produce, hot and salad-bar wastes from a local, vegetarian health food store have provided much of the feed for our pigs for a decade or so. The meat is tasty enough that customers happily pay $100 for one of our hams. (Sure beats those $30 hogs I heard about!) The recycling coordinator at Yale told me recently that his school grinds up over 200 tons of food waste each year for disposal into New Haven's sewage plant in order to avoid the more expensive incinerator tipping fees. This is in additon to the ton per week that is captured for feeding to pigs. We could feed a lot of pigs with the waste from just that one school. Until we change our thinking from linear to cyclical we probably can't really do anything sustainably. Bill Duesing In North Carolina "Pigs are raised in groups of several thousand in long, tin-roofed sheds. These are surrounded by lagoons and grassy fields which are the current technology for dealing with the tremendous volumes of hog wastes flushed from the sheds with water. Although there are several large producers active in the area, Mr. Murphy runs the biggest operation. He owns some of the pig houses, and contracts with small farmers to raise other hogs for him. As what's called an "integrator," he provides the pigs, feed, medications, and advice. The farmer provides labor and waste disposal and, in theory, makes enough money to pay for the fancy buildings and his services. The pigs are raised in three different places. Sows give birth and nurse for just 17 days. The prematurely-weaned piglets are raised on another so-called "farm" for several months before being shipped off to finishing houses, some of which are in Illinois. In five-to-six months, the pigs are slaughtered, and their meat, with or without further processing, is shipped all over the globe. Although some of the corn and soybeans the pigs eat is grown in North Carolina, there is no way the state can produce all the needed feed, so long trains of hopper cars bring corn and soybean meal from Indiana, Illinois and other Midwestern states. There, increasingly-expensive, high-tech seeds, large tractors, energy-intensive chemical fertilizers and pesticides produce crops that are bought, shipped and sold by large global corporations. After the pigs have eaten, much of the feed's nitrogen and phosphorus, which farmers applied as fertilizer in the Midwest, is left in North Carolina in the hogs' feces and urine. After sitting in a lagoon, these wastes are sprayed on the land. In theory, plants absorb these nutrients. In practice, some lagoons leak into the region's sandy soils. The sprayed-on effluent sometimes runs off into ditches and streams, and eventually finds its way to rivers and estuaries along the Carolina coast. These wastes have been connected with outbreaks of the severely-toxic microscopic organism, Pfiesteria. Open, bleeding sores on fish, and cognitive dysfunction, memory loss, nervous and immune systems damage in humans are associated with the presence of Pfiesteria." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 11:29:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00165 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA24089 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:47:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24036 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04374 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990521105221.007afdb0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:52:21 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: RE: raw milk CSAs In-Reply-To: <199905202112.RAA22926@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 953 Here in MA most dairy farmers do not publicly sell raw milk (so I've been told). The reason I have heard is that many people, especially children, who do not grow up on a dairy farm or who do not drink the raw milk often have a hard time digesting it. I was told it has something to do with exposure to organisms (bacteria, etc) that farm kids grow up with. A dairy farmer in MA gave some samples to suburban kids on a farm tour and some got quite sick. Can they sell raw milk in VT? Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 12:09:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01460 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09013 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:18:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09001 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA29729 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm9-21.nidlink.com [216.18.141.76]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA23063; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990521152429.00bbc054@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:24:29 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, biotech_activists@iatp.org From: Charles Benbrook Subject: More on Credibility Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 954 A Monsanto Press Release of May 21, 1999 on the impact of Bt-corn on Monarch butterflies states that: "-- In 1998 use of Bt insect-protected corn reduced or eliminated the use of broad spectrum chemical insecticides on some 15 million acres of U.S. farmland." On May 19, 1999, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's National Agricultural Statistics Service (NASS) released the results of the 1998 field crop chemical use survey. The data can be downloaded by anyone from the NASS site, go to , to May 1999, and then to May 19 ag cemical survey. Nationwide on corn, the following insecticides were applied. The percent following the active ingredient is the percent of 71,400,000 corn acres that were treated. In most cases, the target pest is known and listed. As is well-known and obvious to anyone, including Monsanto, the vast majority of corn insecticide use is pre- or at plant for control of corn rootworms, cutworms, and other soil insects. These applications are early in the year and pose very little risk to Monarchs. As anyone also knows, there has been little change in corn insecticide use, despite the planting of millions of acres of Bt corn in recent years. 1998 U.S. Corn Insecticide Use (NASS data) Bifenthrin 2%, rootworms, soil insects carbofuran 1% ditto Chlorethoxyfos 1%, ditto Chlorpryifos 6%, ditto cyfluthrin 3%, ditto dimethoate 1%, possibly European corn borer fipronil 1%, rootworms, soil insects fonofos 1%, ditto lamba-cyhalothrin 2%, some for ECB, most soil insects methyl parathion 1%, rootworms, soil insects permethrin 2%, possibly part for ECB tebupirimiphos 3%, rootworms, soil insects tefluthrin 5%, ditto terbufos 6%, ditto It is clear from the above that at most, Bt-corn may have reduced corn insecticide use by 1% to 2% of corn acres, or 714,000 to 1.4 million acres (NASS surveyed 71.4 million corn acres in 1998). Monsanto's claim of reducing or eliminating pesticide use on 15 million acres -- i.e. all acres planted -- is not accurate. Some people on this list have asked why Monsanto seems to be such a lightning rod for criticism. Statements like the one above is one reason why. Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 12:19:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02124 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15258 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:27:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15225 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp0.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.100]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA15721 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:24:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00ce01bea39e$39fd1480$644b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: Wisconsin Pesticide Database Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:25:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 955 Can anyone help me with this piece of legislation? The Bill number perhaps, a bit more balanced perspective? I asked the author, but he referred me to a lobbyist from WI Chemical & Fertilizer Co. I think the guy is a local cropduster. I did go to the WI lobbyist page & it seemed to me that the list of registered lobbyists is weighted far more heavily with big agri-biz groups, chemical mfgrs., and the like, than the paltry 5 or 6 environmental groups that I'm assuming are the "special interest" groups in this post... You bet I wanna' contact my rep! FW: from local WI farm list: Blackmailed Unless the residents of rural Wisconsin act today, our legislature and governor are going to be blackmailed into passing a very poor piece of legislation which could cost Wisconsin farmers at least $ 5 million a year. At issue is the proposal to establish a pesticide use database. The Joint Finance Committee, (under pressure from special interest groups) decided to pass a bill costing $250,000, requiring DATCP to develop a pilot program within 12 months and a fully operation program by December 31, 2002. It will take an estimated $4 million per year in users fees and taxes to maintain this database and require the hiring of 30 additional staff people. In addition, it will cost Wisconsin Agriculture alone an estimated $2 million to comply with the reporting requirements. That doesn't include the cost to lawn and garden centers, homeowners, schools, local governments, etc. New York and California currently have the only similar database systems and both have accuracy problems. California's is only around 80% accurate and New Your officials (who have spent $ 7 million since 1993 to develop a less comprehensive database that of WI proposal) have cautioned against making decisions based on their database information because it is unreliable. Wisconsin is in danger of spending a great deal of money for a system that the CA and NY experiences show will produce useless information. This is all because a few special interest groups don't trust the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Americans pay millions of tax dollars to the EPA to ensure pesticides are safe, when used according to the label. The chemical companies, spend around $8 million and test each product for up to 12 years before they release a product to consumers. Then, the EPA continues to monitor the product in the real world uses. Wisconsin currently has one of the best statistical pesticide use reporting systems in the United States and improving this system is an option that needs to be considered. It will definitely be a more reliable way to obtain the needed data and almost certainly would be less expensive, but if the proposed legislation is passed we will never know for sure. How can the legislature and governor be blackmailed into passing this expensive, unreliable and poorly designed system? I've been told at the next election, their opponents may run ads that say; "This legislator voted against protecting your children from pesticides" or "this legislator voted against a bill that would provide pesticide use information to medical researchers", BULL! The best studies show that children are healthier now, than they where 50 years ago. The special interest groups, want you to spend "your tax money" for "their agendas". Do the voters of Wisconsin want to spend millions on a useless program or do they want to spend the money on education, health service, or tax breaks. Call your legislator today and ask if she/he supports spending (wasting) $5 million per year in fees taken from your pocket on a database system that experience shows won't work.... Tell them NO! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 12:26:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02270 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA18430 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:34:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA18397 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0FC300A029JQZJ@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0FC300HFS9L8HX@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 85256778.0054CFC8 ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:26:22 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:24:11 -0400 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1042 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <85256778.0054C08F.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 956 Re: Benbrook's statement, Chuck, Americans, as citizens of one of the earliest nations to be highly industrialized with the great majority of its citizens not working on or near the farm, have long lost contact with the production of food . Now we are losing contact with the raw product itself. Reading Alden Manchester's studies and other highly informative research by other astute observers of the way of American eating, one fact really jumps out. Over half of our food consumption now comes from restaurants or other outlets for prepared food. Even in grocery stores, more and more of the food purchased is not the raw product, but a processed form of it. I kiddingly laughed at the cut onions and other vegetables being sold at my local supermarket and wondered aloud who would pay the extra money to save a few seconds. The manager countered that such conveniences were hot items. At this store at least, the space devoted to the raw product is declining to provide for more space for the increasing demand for the processed versions. Hence, the concept of GMO or otherwise modified raw food strikes less and less a chord in Americans because fewer Americans buy the raw ingredient that may or may not be labelled. If you get "food" processed, and buy according to how it looks process -- at least one step removed from the thing that once resembled the plant--, it does not matter to you what the raw product was. Of more importance to you is the processing or what was added or removed in processing. >From a health perspective, that is probably correct. Americans do buy low fat foods. However, they eat twice the normal amount of it. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 12:26:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02282 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19646 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:37:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19582 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.195] (st-ppp21.hevanet.com [198.5.254.195]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA06213; Fri, 21 May 1999 08:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905211537.IAA06213@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:37:43 -0700 Subject: FW: Possible Changes in Pigs Body Composition From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 957 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Possible Changes in Pigs Body Composition Date: Fri, May 21, 1999, 6:52 AM STORY LEAD: Researchers Explore Possible Changes in Body Composition of Future Pigs ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 21, 1999 Jill Lee, (301) 504-1627, jlee@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Two natural animal hormones are critical to developing fat cells in fetal pigs. One increases the number of fat cells; the other makes fat cells bigger. They work best together, say researchers--and knowing this may someday make leaner pork possible. The scientists, with the Agricultural Research Service, found these hormones of the thyroid and adrenal glands work in tandem to give fetal pigs the sustaining layers of fat they will need after birth. The thyroid hormone increases fat cell numbers; the adrenal one increases their size. Together they allow for a greater increase in fat than either hormone alone, according to the lead researcher, animal physiologist Gary J. Hausman. He's at the Animal Physiology Research Unit of ARS' Richard B. Russell Agricultural Research Center in Athens, Ga. Hausman and colleagues studied the role of these hormones by treating fetal pigs with thyroxine (a thyroid hormone) or hydrocortisone (an adrenal hormone) at various stages of gestation. Other fetal pigs received both hormones. Results showed the hormone combination caused more fat deposition than either hormone alone. The study results suggest the potential for an opportunity for producing leaner pork by reducing levels of one of the hormones in a fetal pig or piglet. The scientists reason that since the hormones' combined activity accelerates fat gains, restricting their "partnership"--by limiting one of the hormones--might reduce the fat gains. This might be done by breeding or through treatments as the piglet grows. By understanding the biology of fat hormones, the researchers hope to learn more about reducing fat in pork. This information could also be useful to medical researchers seeking to understand factors contributing to obesity in humans. ARS is the chief scientific agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ---------- Scientific contact: Gary Hausman, ARS Richard B. Russell Agricultural Research Center, Athens, Ga., phone (706) 546-3584, fax (706) 546-3586, ghausman@ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 12:28:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02321 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22732 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:43:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22722 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28953 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm9-21.nidlink.com [216.18.141.76]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id HAA16059; Fri, 21 May 1999 07:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990521144919.00b8a25c@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:49:19 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, biotech_activists@iatp.org From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Giddings on Monarchs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 958 Striking another blow for sound science in the ongoing debate over Bt-corn and GMOs, Val Giddings, vice president for the Biotechnology Industry Organization, had this to say in response to the flurry of coverage on the impacts of Bt-transgenic corn pollen on Monarch butterflies, in a May 21 AP story: ``Whatever the threat to monarch butterflies that is posed by Bt corn pollen, we know it's less than the threat of drifting pesticide sprays.'' Dr. Giddings forgot to point out that very, very few farmers spray insecticdes for control of the European corn borer because treatments are generally ineffective and cause so much havoc to any one, or any organism in the area. No sprays = no drift. Undeterred by the facts, this comment, like so many others, will not help restore public confidence in the industry, its commitment to sound science, or its concern for minimizing environemntal impacts. Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 12:32:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02398 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25261 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:42:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25162 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:41:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199905211039580790.00323055@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <2408E8F3784@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> References: <2408E8F3784@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:39:58 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Where Biotech's Going and / or Could Go Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 959 Hi Klaus, >i wonder, why everyone calls for the government Because there is a clear and present danger to the biosphere. This makes the issue one important to the public good. The fact that I myself do not and will not support GMO's through my purchasing them is not enough. This is what governments are for - to protect the public interest. The dangers inherent in implementing a moratorium (to a few wealthy investors hoping for a lucrative return) are insignificant, in relation to the multitude of unknown risks involved and the rapidly accumulating body of evidence indicating profound, negative effects on the ecosystem. >i wonder, where we might >be, if all these billions would have been spent in >conventional breeding. ...one of the >most famous breeders from INRA for example published a >paper, where they showed, that there is no real advantage for >hybrid seed and conventional corn would have the same >yields, if breeders had spent the same money in it. Good point! Where no clear and present danger to the public good exists, free choice may be indicated. But here, this is not the case. Therefore, the appropriate direction taken for investment in research may need a little guidance (or at least dissuasion). Alternatively, incentives could be provided for traditional genetic research. DH That's all - it will be difficult for me to follow up this thread much further for now as I must get ready to return again to the Papaloapan. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21/05/99 at 9:00 AM Klaus Wiegand wrote: >hello douglas, > >>The species themselves and not doing the taking and inserting, >>and the people doing it are doing it via mechanical or chemical >>means, as distinguished from "husbandry" consisting of breeding >>methods that involve the appropriate sexual organs of the >>organisms being combined. > >that's only partially true. think of colchicine and gammy >particle bombarding. > > >>In that sense, the >>"ownership" is more important than the knowledge, which is more >>like genetics - easily transferred, > >i think, these days unfortunately are also gone in all other >fields. it began, when the first patent offices was established. >so genetic engineering is no exception. i'm not surprised to >find, that private companies are running for patents. the >shameful thing is, that governmental institutes are also involved >in patenting (see usda and "terminator", here in germany it is >the largest scientific research community , the >max-planck-institute). so you pay twice, first for the research >for the patent (by taxes) and later the 2nd time for the patent >license. > >>legislative attention must be focused on the issue. > >i would say: additionally. but i wonder, why everyone calls for >the government, when he has the decision in his own hands. >several days ago there was a posting, in which s.o. asked for >reasons, why we would refuse gm products. to me that's the wrong >question ! > >for example i am almost a vegetarian and am surely not >willing to discuss with cattle breeders, whether i'm willing >or even shall be forced to buy their meat, just because he >grows cattle and because it contains high levels of protein, >enzymes and vitamins. would i be a total vegetarian, i would >not even consider to buy something, which MIGHT contain >meat. no discussion, no reasoning with anyone! it is my sole >decision. and it has NOTHING to do with scientific >reasoning. the same goes for kosher meat for jews or swines >for moslems. do not look for a scientific background, where >there isn't any (or only a minor one)... > >although as an agronomist i see a lot of advantages, this >does not imply, that i must see the same advantages as a >consumer. > >may i ask, why i (as a consumer) should be in the defense >situation of explaining, why i refuse this or that ? isn't >it usually just the other way round ? i have the money and >so it's me to decide how to spend it. i thought, that was >one of the best known facts in america and the reason, why >there are PR-agencies.... and i'm astonished, why a lot of >writers here feel themselves in the defense and have to >explain, why they are "luddists". > >bioindustry has something valuable to sell ? so they should >convince me, that my money is well spent in their gene food. > >up to now they came up with a flavr-savr, that tasted like a >paper handkerchief, a better tasting tomato paste (which was >a market success, you see: no global refusal of gm-products) >and for the billions spent, an amazingly low number of >agronomical advantages (which do not interest me at all as a >consumer). seems, as if all these thousands of nice and very >special research papers from the lab do not add up to a >wholesome result in the field. and i wonder, where we might >be, if all these billions would have been spent in >conventional breeding. levontin for harvard and one of the >most famous breeders from INRA for example published a >paper, where they showed, that there is no real advantage for >hybrid seed and conventional corn would have the same >yields, if breeders had spent the same money in it. > >a year ago i had a discussion with the represent of the >largest seed company in germany and he whined, that they are >tired of explaining the advantages of genetic engineering to >the public. so i asked the question in the highly frequented >fido-area "wissen.ger" (german scientific discussion), if >they heard anything of that company and their explanations. >guess what ? NOONE EVER heard anything of them, most did not >even know the company's name !! my oh my!! and they call >this enlightening the public ?? > > >for a better understanding: for a consumer there is no >advantage in better industrial processing characteristics or >a bacteria-resistant tomato, he simply buys from another >batch or switches to a carrot salad... > >high vitamin content ? not bad, but consumers can choose among a >broad variety of vitamin pills maybe from the same "life science"- >company, who is the owner of the gm-seeds. > >some vitamins are produced by gm-bacteria ? for most people >the advantage will be evident (though in this case not for >me), so it may be a clear buy ! > >but not according to the technicians on my lab. i asked those, who >are gm-opponents, if they would buy a vitamine-enriched >gm-variety. clear-cut answer: no. then i asked the women among >them, if, PROVIDED they would get cellulitis, if they would buy a >salad, which would help against it. they all answered with a YES ! >(i'm almost sure, men would have given the same answer, if >there were a vegetable producing viagra) > >now, would you tell me, if you see is any scheme behind that ?? >i do not see it. (doesn't matter, they would not offer their money >for the vitamins. case closed) > >the leak has virus resistance ? where's the meat ? may they >sell the veined leak elsewhere... > >seedless grapes ? well, but not really needed, god (or >whosoever) provided me with a tongue to spit them out.. >nothing more but a nice gag, for which only some people are >willing to pay. and besides (not so important) also >breedable by conventional means. > >higher yields ? we already pay enough subsidaries and each pound >more increases the sum. as a farmer i would welcome it and would >as all the others run straight into "the tragedy of >the commons". no escape ! under this view i also understood ann >clark's "thank god yields are lower", which people might >misunderstand at first glance (me too). > >ozone-tolerant plants ? wouldn't it be better to solve the >probleme ozone at it's basis ? > >rbgh ? more milk, more mastitis by growth stress, so even >conflicting for the farmer.. > >seems, as if for every advantage i also have to >swallow a toad. nice deal. > >an anticancer-drug or hiv-vaccine derived from a gm-plant ? >where is it ?, i'm sure it would be accepted immediately and >people would stop throwing bomb after bomb in gene splicers >gardens. > >fusarium-resistant grains ? fantastic ! but this will be an >"trade-off", for which you can wait until doomsday. it would >interferes between the seeds and the fungicides of the same >company. > >so where are these fantastic and revolutionary gm-product >improvements for me, the consumer ?? small improvement - >small encitement for a buy... > >you see, i'm no absolute opponent of biotechnology, but up to now >i find their advertisements nothing but hype and their behaviour >against me, the consumer, just disgusting. look at the >stockmarket, bio technology companies are having more and more >problems to explain to their shareholders, why despite the >billions of investment up to now they haven't come up with >something really worthy. last week i read in the "handelsblatt" >(the german counterpart of "wall street journal") of an american >biotech-company, who totally failed in the usa and tried a new >start in germany's stock market. their big mistake: a reporter >from the handelsblatt got wind of an internal memo saying, that >"germans are easier to be DUPED by nice advertisements than >americans". over and out for their business.. > > >or take this research paper title: > >PRODUCTION OF FERTILE TRANSGENIC PEANUT (ARACHIS HYPOGAEA L) >PLANTS USING AGROBACTERIUM TUMEFACIENS > >what a marvellous result. fertile peanuts !! they may even have >celebrated their success. i only can wonder, how peanut growers >have managed to replicate their fruits in the last 5000 years.... > >last year i even saw a paper from an american university, >telling us, that they have successfully cloned a bacterium. >imagine that !!!! they cloned a bacterium!! some funders >might even be highly impressed ;-)) > >i'm tired of these kind of advertisements. take a look in the >special edition of fortune (25. birthday-edition) in the 50ies, >where they asked the most prominent scientists for predictions, >how the world would look like in 30 years. not even SOME of these >predictions came true, it was NONE of them. and NOONE foresaw ANY >of the real industrial revolutions. > >take the case of your fireants, which increased it's >percentage among your ants from 1 to 99 % due to pesticid >recommandations of your marvellous scientists. take the case >of lead/arsen-pesticides in the beginning of this century. >the head of the entomological department of the usda >(certainly a scientist, his name was doggerel), declared >"there is ABSOLUTELY NO risk in using them" and his >collegues lamented over "the warnings of of some ignorants" >they even made a poem for the farmers (i have to retranslate >it, so mileage may vary): > >spray, you farmers, spray with ardour, >spray peach, pear and apple ! >spray against scab, spray against blight, >keep on spraying, and do it right. > >(taken from james whorton; before silent spring: pesticides >and public health in pre-ddt america, princeton 1974, p. >90.) > >and if you ask for any responsability for their work, you >get the same answers, the allies got, when after the war >they asked for responsablity among the hanger-ons of the >nazis: "but we did not know...". there were more people, who >concealed a jew, than we had jews at all. are there any >scientists, who went to jail for hurting public health ? >reminds me of one of the nicest scenes in bogarts >"casablanca". when he was asked by the french officer, why >he came to marocco, he answered: "i came for the beautiful >waters". the officer: "but this is desert land, there are NO >waters here". and rick's answer (which might also be that of >modern gene splicers in 20 years): "i was misinformed!" > >i make a prediction: all these companies will have strangled >themselves with their indiscriminating sequencing patents in >acouple of year. these will make research impossible and >applications more expensive than before. maybe i should >invest in lawyer incorporated companies.... > > >klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 12:35:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02447 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26119 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:47:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26102 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 21 May 1999 10:46:43 -0500 Message-ID: <199905211044560600.0036BBE0@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD44@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD44@vela.phibred.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:44:56 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dale Wilson" , "'Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Importation of N Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA26104 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 960 I believe Dale and Andrew are right. A public program needs to be developed. This could conceivably be done cooperatively by local private interests, by public supports for this should co-exist. Public policy changes are called for. No more follows. DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21/05/99 at 8:21 AM Wilson, Dale wrote: >Andrew, > >> Why should their goal be "not to have to import N onto their >> farm?" If they have a reasonably productive system that >> results in ample N and P exported off their farm as part of >> food or feed, then they must either import N onto the >> farm--or include an N-fixing crop in their rotations--or >> suffer the problem of N and P deficiency in their soils. > >That's a good point. Exportation of nutrients off the farm seems to be a >given. > >> Why does sustainability have to be defined in terms of the >> individual farm? Why can't it be defined in terms of >> the watershed or other geographic unit > >IMO, a failure to appreciate spatial and temporal scale is one factor that >has resulted in some unproductive effort in the environmentalist community. >The watershed would seem to a more natural unit for nutrient management than >the farm. > >> ...provided that inputs and outputs equilibrate? > >Ideally the nitrogen and phosphorus consumed by humans and animals would be >returned to the farm. In current reality, most of it ends up in surface >water because the cost of transporting it to the farm is too high. If the >externalities associated with casual disposal of these wastes could be >captured and priced, transporting sludge and slurry to the farm (not just >nearby farms) would become economically feasible. I think public policy will >gradually come around to accomplish this. > >> From an economic perspective, it may make perfect sense to >> be somewhere in the middle of the continuum between total >> specialization and total independence of the need >> for imported inputs--and still be sustainable. > >Again, this is an issue of scaling. It may be okay for a farmer in Iowa to >grow mainly soybeans and corn, because that works well here, while someone >in Oregon produces grass seed, because they can do a better job of it there. >I think part of what is driving the farm unitization and independence sought >by some, is a romantic vision of farming that may not have ever really >existed. > >Dale > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 13:08:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03241 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA11851 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:20:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from milkyway.uark.edu (mailgate.uark.edu [130.184.7.105]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11846 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by milkyway.uark.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02197 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:20:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 581I.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id LAA20288 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 11:20:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905211620.LAA20288@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:20:14 +0000 Subject: N->Public input on Nutrients at Regional Levels Reply-to: steved@ncatark.uark.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 961 The sanet thread on nitrogen has been really interesting... Here's a post that provides an opportunity for public input to nutrients at the watershed/regional level. Of course, ya'll know that nutrient loading in the Mississippi River -- which is a sink for 2/3'rds of the nations waterhseds -- is causing a huge, huge, huge environmental impact on the Gulf of Mexcio, right? Hypoxia = Dead Gulf = Bad News! Steve Diver ============================================ ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Joe Makuch To: Enviro-news listserv Subject: FW: Public Stakeholder Meetings on the National Strategy To Devel op Regional Nutrient Criteria Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:35:29 -0400 Forwarded from http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-GENERAL/1999/May/Day-20/g12755.htm > [Federal Register: May 20, 1999 (Volume 64, Number 97)] > [Notices] > [Page 27542-27543] > From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov] > [DOCID:fr20my99-58] > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY > > [WH-FRL-6347-3] > Public Stakeholder Meetings on the National Strategy To Develop > Regional Nutrient Criteria > > AGENCY: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). > > ACTION: Notice of public stakeholder meeting on the national strategy > to develop regional nutrient criteria. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > SUMMARY: The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is holding a > stakeholder meeting on June 10, 1999 to stimulate an information > exchange with stakeholders on issues related to the National Strategy > to Develop Regional Nutrient Criteria. > > DATES: The public stakeholder meeting will start at 9:00 AM and adjourn > at 5:30 PM on June 10, 1999. > > FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Robert Cantilli (4304), U.S. EPA, 401 M > St. S.W., Washington, D.C. 20460 (Telephone: (202) 260-5546). > > SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: The public stakeholder meeting will be held > at the Crystal City Marriott, 1999 Jefferson Davis Highway, Arlington, > VA for the purpose of conducting an information exchange with > stakeholders on issues related to the National Strategy to Develop > Regional Nutrient Criteria. The public stakeholder meeting is to > provide an opportunity for interested persons to discuss the issues and > process for developing and implementing regional nutrient criteria. The > stakeholder meeting will also be an opportunity for substantive input > and dialogue with the primary authors of the Nutrient Waterbody Type > Guidance Documents. Participants for the stakeholders meeting who wish > to make comments or ask questions are strongly encouraged to provide an > advance written request due to potential time limitations. Requests to > speak at the stakeholder meeting should be made to Gregory Smith, Great > Lakes Environmental Center, Inc. at (614) 487-8236 or by e-mail at: > gsmith__glec@compuserve.com. > EPA is inviting all interested members of the public to participate > in the stakeholder meeting. Approximately 150 seats will be available > for the public. Seats will be available on a first-come, first served > basis. On-site registration for the meeting will begin at 8:00 AM. > For additional information about the meeting, please contact Robert > Cantilli of EPA's Office of Science and > > [[Page 27543]] > > Technology at (202) 260-5546 or by e-mail at cantilli.robert@epa.gov. > > Dated: May 12, 1999. > Tudor T. Davies, > Director, Office of Science and Technology. > [FR Doc. 99-12755 Filed 5-19-99; 8:45 am] > BILLING CODE 6560-50-P http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-GENERAL/1999/May/Day-20/g12755.htm *************************************************************************** * The enviro-news mailing list facilitates information exchange. * * The sender is responsible for content. * * To remove yourself from this list, send email to majordomo@nal.usda.gov * * with the message text: unsubscribe enviro-news * *************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 13:16:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03407 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:16:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:23:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hamp.hampshire.edu (ednS94@hamp.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.137]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA14742 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ednS94@localhost) by hamp.hampshire.edu (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06647 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:30:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric D Nash To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Fwd: Royals Debunk Pusztai Study (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 962 thats a load off! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:37:46 -0400 From: Paul Gregory To: NE community food systems Cc: NE community food systems Subject: Fwd: Royals Debunk Pusztai Study "U.K. Study Dismisses Research Faulting Genetically Altered Food." Wall Street Journal, 19 May 99, A8. A report by Britain's prestigious scientific authority, the Royal Society, "is likely to renew furor over genetically modified food" because it dismissed "highly publicized research" by Dr. Arpad Pusztai which indicated that humans could experience harmful effects from eating altered foods. Teams of scientists from the Royal Society independently reviewed Dr. Pusztai's research and reported that it was '"flawed'" and that '"no conclusion should be drawn from it'". Dr. Pusztai, who was dismissed from his post at the Rowett Research Institute in Aberdeen after appearing on T.V., examined the effects of altered potatoes on laboratory rats. The government supports further testing and is not expected to call for a moratorium on genetically modified foods. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 13:25:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04470 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA28874 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:48:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28857 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA08208 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990521125359.007b6ea0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:53:59 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: skinny pigs In-Reply-To: <199905211548.LAA26861@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 963 Barbeque season is upon us, and now comes the sad news of skinny pigs... I cannot tell you how disappointed I am with the state of commercial pork in the U.S. Yes, pork is fatty, but dang it, fat gives pork its great FLAVOR. I don't want a skinny pig. I don't eat pork that often but when I do I want it to taste GOOD. I am tired of dried out pork; lots of others are too. We demand real pigs! Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 13:33:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04654 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29632 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:50:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29579 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from schilling.ucdavis.edu (root@schilling.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA01713 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Liebhardt (ars97.ucdavis.edu [169.237.82.97]) by schilling.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.11) with SMTP id JAA17273; Fri, 21 May 1999 09:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905211649.JAA17273@schilling.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: fzliebha@mailbox.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:51:17 -0700 To: Charles Benbrook From: Bill Liebhardt Subject: Re: More on Credibility Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990521152429.00bbc054@mail.nidlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 964 Chuck, yesterday Gordon Rausser, dean of Natural Resources at UCB gave a presentation on the deal with Novartis and he referred to Monsanto as the Darth Vader of the bio tech world. The seminar was well done and since he was the main negotiator for it he thought it was great. I think just the opposite-it will narrow the research agenda, concentrate the knowledge in the hands of a few and continue the decline of public support for land grants. He said that three people in microbiology on campus have already started up their own companies. Seem like a conflict of interest to me. If these deals continue there will be a blending of private-public interests and the public good that is supposed to be the result of land grant research will become more in line with what corporations want in my mind. Any thoughts on this? Bill LIebhardt To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 13:52:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05044 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA11200 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:11:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hil-img-9.compuserve.com (hil-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.177.139]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11161 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:11:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id NAA28889 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:08:30 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: FW: Possible Changes in Pigs Body Composition To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199905211310_MC2-7689-9E79@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 965 The ARS is at it again. More useful research?? "This information could also be useful to medical researchers seeking to understand factors contributing to obesity in humans." I'm not sure we need government scientists to know that over production and over consumption of junk food, and lack of exercise, contribute greatly to obesity in humans. Bill Duesing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 14:04:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05251 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA17216 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:25:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hamp.hampshire.edu (ednS94@hamp.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.137]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA17139 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ednS94@localhost) by hamp.hampshire.edu (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06753 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:32:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:32:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric D Nash To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA17154 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 966 thought you all might find this tragic and/or comic [five lines deleted] > >According to the 1996 edition of Washington Representatives (Columbia Books >Inc.), Patricia G. Kenworthy was Director of Regulatory Affairs in >Washington, DC for Monsanto Company. (That's the equivalent of political >and lobby quarterback and she was no doubt paid a huge salary to be the >point person for Mosanto on government regulatory matters.) > >Now, she is with National Environmental Trust, the Washington, DC, >environmental group, and has been tapped to help develop their new >initiative to FIGHT agricultural biotechnology. I called the National Environmental Trust to confirm the details. Patricia, according to the receptionist was "busy on another line" so I asked if she were the same Patricia Kenworthy who used to be with Monsanto. The receptionist said yes and asked if I wanted to speak to their publicity department. I said no, I thought they were probably busy on another line too. If you would like to call the National Environmental Trust, the number is: 202-887-8800. ****************************************** from Beth Burrows at The Edmonds Institute beb@igc.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 14:13:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05448 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA21101 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:28:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA21039 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool042-max12.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.15.42]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id LLTZ4LQ7; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:28:10 -0400 Message-ID: <37459A34.D6C252B8@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:39:00 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Raw Milk CSA's References: <199905202112.RAA22926@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 967 You know, perhaps this would not be considered "selling" the milk if you word the CSA contract well- After all, the members are "shareholders", and the milk is their "dividend" No need for special "raw milk licencing" (which you may not need in VT any way) BUT, be sure to Include and indemnity from liability in the CSA contract, You know, make everyone aware that they are choosing to drink raw milk and that there may be some risks involved (although i've never know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, and i've been drinking it all my life- ;-) Best of luck- Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 14:14:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05459 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA13527 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA13424 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:22:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0FC300JOVBAW7X@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0FC3003NZBBYTD@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:04:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 85256778.00584190 ; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:03:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:02:19 -0400 Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1038 To: AMCGUIRE1@UNL.EDU Cc: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <85256778.00583DC1.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 968 Thanks Andy for your comments. Let me elaborate on what I meant: On Thursday, May 20, 1999 1:44 PM, Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov [SMTP:Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov] wrote: > > > Re.: Dan Anderson's comment, "I especially had to stop to think because > > >most of the organic farmers I talk to *do* tend to import N in the form of > > >off-farm compost, off-farm manure, etc. Their goal is always not to have > > >to do so, but this goal seems difficult to achieve." > > Why should their goal be "not to have to import N onto their farm?" If they > have a reasonably productive system that results in ample N and P exported off > their farm as part of food or feed, then they must either import N onto the > farm--or include an N-fixing crop in their rotations--or suffer the problem of N > and P deficiency in their soils. What is wrong with the second option, including an N-fixing crop in their rotation? ---Clearly nothing is "wrong with including and N-fixing crop in a rotation. However, if the geographic boundary defining sustainability is drawn wider, then the N could come necessarily not from the same field but another field or farm within the geographic area. Expanding the options available to the individual farmer improves his or her chances of maintaining "economic" sustainability. The later in turn can lead to breakdown of the > soils and the loss of organic matter. Why does sustainability have to be > defined in terms of the individual farm? By definition, if the individual farm is not sustainable, then it will decline, which means that its resources will be degraded, ending up as sediment in somebody elses drinking water. I think that the individual farm has to be sustainable. However, if you mean by sustainable, that the individual farm has to have no net import of material, nutrients, etc., I think you are right. It could be possible for a larger box to be drawn and say that the N or P for that area is stable. However, if the box is drawn in the right places you might have a situation where there is no net export of N but that N is being concentrated in one area (within the watershed, for instance) at a feedlot, but being depleted in the cropped fields producing feed. Overall the N balance seems good, but I wouldn't say that the crop production is sustainable, without major expense in non-renewable fossil fuel to fix N from the air and apply it as fertilizer. ---I certainly agree with the importance of drawing the box in a manner to maximize the greatest number of farms and area of land and seek to minimize if not eliminate negative externalities for those outside the box. Where I may disagree is with regard to fertilizer use. From a net energy and mass balance perspective, I would argue that burning fossil fuel to fix N which is then used to increase yield of crops which sequester carbon which adds to the health and productivity of the soil and offsets any loss of fossil fuel by capturing energy in the form of biomass makes sense. Not to say that our current system does it that way. But it could. Why can't it be defined in terms of > the watershed or other geographic unit provided that inputs and outputs > equilibrate? From an environmental perspective, it doesn't matter. I think it does matter. The details are what is important. If there is no recycling of nutrients within a watershed then one area ends up nutrient poor and another overloaded, risking contamination. Sustainability is much more than reducing inputs, although that can be part of it. ---If the nutrients are maldistributed within a watershed, then, of course, that does matter from an environmental perspective. But I would argue that sustainability drawn wider than an individual farm has to be drawn wide enough to incorporate at least the smaller size watersheds and should not result in negative externalities to neighboring or downstream watersheds. >From an > economic perspective, it may make perfect sense to be somewhere in the middle > of the continuum between total specialization and total independence of the need > for imported inputs--and still be sustainable. I can imagine a system where this is done, but in the case of manure, it is the distance separating the specialized enterprises that is important. If the feedlot and the field where the feed comes from are far apart, it does not make economic sense to haul the manure back to the field because a lot of water has been added to the nutrients and it is heavy. So, as long as N fertilizer is cheap, we can replace the nutrients easily, too easily, because we can ignore the wasted nutrients in the manure that will never return to fields. ---I totally agree that current economic signals are messed up. But there are no such things as markets that are totally guided by invisible hands. That is a ridiculous myth taught gullible undergraduates. We should be trying to decide what we as a society want the endproducts to look like and then agreeing upon the road to getting us there. Taxes and subsidies that alter prices are one approach. There are others. Our political system is presumably the platform for discussing and deciding how to do so. Farm Bills are the traditional vehicles in the ag arena. > > Dennis Avery's criticisms gain legitimacy the more that the sustainability > movement adheres to restrictions on farming practices that cannot be justified > by science or common sense. Just what are you talking about here? Is it common sense to pay for nutrients to put on fields and then pay again to get rid of those same nutrients once they become a waste in a feedlot or chicken house? ---Our current system is not sustainable. I would never argue that it is. However, I believe it is necessary to avoid the trap that Avery and his ilk trap set for proponents of a more sustainable system--that the concepts of sustainable agriculture are guided more by ideology than science and sound economics. The economic signals in our current system encourage some very dumb practices. Let's fix the signals, particularly the more egregious ones which result from government subsidies, inappropriate insurance programs, and flaws in our liability laws that make contract growers responsible for the decisions made by integrators. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 14:28:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05758 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA27830 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:38:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from NIH2WAAF (smtp6.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.75]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27740 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:38:13 -0400 Received: from [216.192.98.141] (mid-qbu-nqs-vty93.as.wcom.net [216.192.111.93]) by hil-img-ims-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.7) with ESMTP id NAA08584 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: LawsonValentine@pop.site1.csi.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990521125359.007b6ea0@crocker.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990521125359.007b6ea0@crocker.com> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:23:54 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Lucy Miller Subject: Re: skinny pigs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 969 They could consider letting the pigs out for an occasional stroll instead . . . Might work for the overweight people they're worried about, too! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 14:46:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06073 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA15949 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:14:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15928 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:13:18 -0500 Message-ID: <199905211311320700.00BCF8BB@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:11:32 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Bio-control methods or agents effective against any of the following pineapple pests & diseases Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA15932 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 970 Hello, Does anyone out there worked with or have any reliable information regarding bio-control methods or agents effective against or good for restricting damage by: (Ants) - Solenopsis geminata Fabr and Conomyrma sp (they both bring in the mealybugs) (Mealybug - Homptera) - Dysmicoccus brevipes CKL or Pseudococcus brevipes (which is a vector for a virus) (Spider mite) - Dolichotetranychus floridanus (No english common name given - Lepidoptera) - Thecla basilides or Thecla echion (a tropical fruit worm) (White termite - Isoptera) Gnathamitermes tubidormans (White grub - Coleoptera) - Phyllophaga spp. (common boring grub) (No english common name given - Coleoptera) - Metamasius callizona (these black larvas attack the whole plant including the fruit, constructing galleries within them) (No english common name given - Sinphylla) - Hanseniella ivorensis (small while organisms that attack roots) (Nematodes of the genus') - Pratylenchus, Helicotylenchus, Tilenchorhynchus, Meloidogyne, Criconemoides, Aphelenchus, Radopholus, Tilenchus, Psilenchus y Hoploloimus (above all the first four) (Fungus' ) - Phytophthora parastica Dast, P. cinnammomi, P. cithophthora, P. parastica var. nicotianae y Pythium polimorphun (Bacteria) - Erwinia aananas I already do have some information on hand but want to compare it with the experience and knowledge of others. Thanks in advance for sharing that. (And thanks to those who responded constructively earlier, to both the pineapple floral induction and vanilla inquiries). Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 14:59:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06264 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21943 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:21:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pobox1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.166.151]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21918 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mchristi (nscs23p19.remote.umass.edu [128.119.179.62]) by pobox1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #37024) with SMTP id <0FC300GFTHMCNN@pobox1.oit.umass.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:23:08 -0400 From: Margaret Christie Subject: Job Announcement X-Sender: mchristi@mailsrv-unix.oit.umass.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, FAP-NE-AG-DEVEL-L@cornell.edu, nefood-l@sardonyx.tufts.edu, iffs@nal.usda.gov Cc: emaltby@open-field.org, begg@together.net, tclarke@amherst.edu, dcooley@pltpath.umass.edu, jazzli@crocker.com, chGU@hampshire.edu, jimdpitts@aol.com, nstar@javanet.com, nesfi@igc.apc.org, Barts@valinet.com, bschultz@hampshire.edu, bwallace@javanet.com, dminor@hampshire.edu, earthspn@crocker.com, jcutson@hampshire.edu, Mmaide@aol.com Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19990521142308.006a6a00@mailsrv-unix.oit.umass.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 971 (Apologies for cross-postings) Position Description: Executive Director Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture, Amherst, MA Appl. Deadline: June 15, 1999, or until a satisfactory candidate is found. Start date: August 1, 1999, or as soon as possible Compensation: High $30,000s to low $40,000s, commensurate with experience. Health insurance, holiday, sick, and vacation benefits. Responsibilities include: --Leadership of CISA's growth and development as an organization; --Oversee the development, implementation and evaluation of CISA's programs; --Help plan and manage CISA's fundraising program, including maintaining relationships with existing funding sources, developing new funding sources, and grantwriting; --Work with the Board to develop an annual organizational work plan and budget, and provide progress reports on plan implementation to the Board; --Recruit, train, hire, supervise, evaluate and terminate CISA staff; --Maintain and strengthen CISA's membership program; --Serve as one of the organization's primary spokespersons; --Establish and maintain relationships with CISA members, state and local institutions, other organizations and individuals concerned with western Massachusetts agricultural, environmental, and community health, and organizations that impact or are impacted by CISA programs; --Assist in recruiting, orienting, and training new Board members; --Perform other duties as specified by the CISA Board. Desired Experience and Skills: --Community organizing and advocacy; --Organizational development and strategic planning; --Fundraising; --Administrative skills/staff supervision; --Participatory, cooperative program planning and execution; --Strong interpersonal skills and an ability to work collaboratively with farmers, consumers, organizational representatives, government agencies and officials, environmentalists, and community groups; --Familiarity with sustainable agriculture and local, state, and national food systems and programs; --Enthusiasm for CISA's mission. Application procedure: Please send a resume and a cover letter highlighting your strengths and experience to CISA, 893 West Street, Amherst, MA 01002. For more information, call Margaret Christie at (413)559-5338, (413)559-5404 (fax), or email mchristi@umext.umass.edu. CISA is an equal opportunity employer. Organization Description: CISA is a community organization dedicated to sustaining agriculture in western Massachusetts by strengthening the relationship between farmers and consumers. We focus on environmental sustainability, farm profitability, and on building local and secure food systems. We are a young non-profit with a four-person staff and an active board. CISA's new Director will have the opportunity to strengthen innovative existing programs, broaden our funding base, and continue our transition to a member-based community organization. Current CISA projects include a major "Buy Local" communications and marketing campaign focused on educating consumers about the benefits of purchasing local food and agricultural products; FarmNet, an information and referral service for the farm community; an annual farm map and guide to western Massachusetts farm products; and Massachusetts Marketplace West, a celebration of Massachusetts farm and food products to be held at the Tri-County Fair in September. CISA began in 1994 with support from the Kellogg Foundation's Integrated Farming Systems program and several local organizations, including UMass Extension, Hampshire College, the New England Small Farm Institute, and the Institute for Science and Interdisciplinary Studies. We continue to work closely with other organizations concerned about food, agriculture, and communities in our region. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 15:06:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06428 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA23985 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:26:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23840 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.134]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA17185 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:27:34 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990521132549.006f57cc@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:25:49 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Nitrogen in Organic Agriculutre Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA23973 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 972 Bart wrote: >Most non-symbiotes would be doing very well to fix 50 kg/ha nitrogen. >Except in fairly anaerobic environments -- rice, for example -- I >wouldn't go out of my way to encourage them, to say nothing of *add* >them to the soil. They are, however, a delightlfully fascinating >component of creation. > Well, I know this is conventional wisdom, that the non-symbionts are not worth the trouble. In my opinion, however, this is an error. The Cubans have some interesting experiences with Azotobacter achieving higher levels than this. There is also some work in the tropics (Brazil) that suggest Azotobacter can be a significant N-fixer under the right conditions. Also, there is something else to keep in mind: 50kg/ha of N fixed in the context of a complex soil microbiology and good soil structure can have a dramatically different effect on the soil and on crop productivity than does an equivalent or greater amount of soluble N salts or anhydrous ammonia. In an organic soil it just isn't necessary to add such high levels of N as are common on some conventional farms, a large percentage of which ends up in the drainage. Also in the humid tropics we are beginning to suspect that N-fixation by bacteria on the leaf surfaces could be important, in which case Mo given as a foliar fertilizer could be very beneficial. Experience so far seem to bear this out. I don't know how relevant this source could be in more temperate or drier areas. A friend of mine doing reserarch in Oaxaca has found 15 species of bacteria, several of them N fixers, in the exudate from the adventitious roots of Indian corn varieties. This is not precisely a symbiosos of the rhizobium type but is probably part of the rhizosphere microbial populations that feed on carbohydrates the corn plant releases into the soil for that purpose. The point is there is a lot more to N-fixation in agriculture than Rhizobium and there is even more to it that we don't know about. I say don't write off the non-sybionts too fast. They have a great potential to contribute to more adequate N management in future agriculture. I remember reading a few years ago that the nitrogenase enzyme was remarkably uniform in different organism. It has two metaloproteins, one with Moly, Iron and Sulfur and the other with an Fe-S group. Its uniformity, according to what I read, suggests that it evolved only once in the history of life. There may be more recent research I am unfamiliar with. I recall that V can substitute for Mo in some metaloproteins but I thought the enzymatic activity would be considerably lower. I remember some speculation of possible V-based N-fixation systems and would like to have any references on that. That would be very interesting. Finally, we should always remember that N-fixation is only one link in the nitrogen cycle, albeit a critical one. But proper N management means paying attention to other important links, to create conditions that retain organic N in the soil biomass as much as possible. Regards, Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 15:10:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06490 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA24812 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:29:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA24781 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:28:38 -0500 Message-ID: <199905211326560320.00CB1138@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <37459A34.D6C252B8@cafarmersmarkets.org> References: <199905202112.RAA22926@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37459A34.D6C252B8@cafarmersmarkets.org> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:26:56 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Phil Gillman" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Raw Milk CSA's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA24791 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 973 The "shareholders" will have to agree that the milk is not for human consumption, in order to relieve the producer / distributor from liability. That way, the subscriber would be responsable for any other use. >i've never know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, Unfortunately, I've known plenty who have and some died from it. The important thing is to be sure the cows are free from TB (Brucellosis too, although it's rarely lethal), and that handling avoids contamination from salmonella and listeria etc. DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21/05/99 at 10:39 AM Phil Gillman wrote: >You know, perhaps this would not be considered "selling" the milk if you >word the CSA contract well- After all, the members are "shareholders", >and the milk is their "dividend" > >No need for special "raw milk licencing" (which you may not need in VT >any way) > >BUT, be sure to Include and indemnity from liability in the CSA >contract, You know, make everyone aware that they are choosing to drink >raw milk and that there may be some risks involved (although i've never >know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, and i've been drinking it all >my life- ;-) > >Best of luck- >Phil Gillman >pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 15:19:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06675 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA29827 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:37:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA29737 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:36:16 -0500 Message-ID: <199905211334300610.00D2000D@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:34:30 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Eric D Nash" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA29755 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 974 Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the company? D H *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21/05/99 at 12:32 PM Eric D Nash wrote: >thought you all might find this tragic and/or comic > > >[five lines deleted] > >> >>According to the 1996 edition of Washington Representatives (Columbia Books >>Inc.), Patricia G. Kenworthy was Director of Regulatory Affairs in >>Washington, DC for Monsanto Company. (That's the equivalent of political >>and lobby quarterback and she was no doubt paid a huge salary to be the >>point person for Mosanto on government regulatory matters.) >> >>Now, she is with National Environmental Trust, the Washington, DC, >>environmental group, and has been tapped to help develop their new >>initiative to FIGHT agricultural biotechnology. > >I called the National Environmental Trust to confirm the details. >Patricia, according to the receptionist was "busy on another line" so >I asked if she were the same Patricia Kenworthy who used to be with >Monsanto. The receptionist said yes and asked if I wanted to speak to >their publicity department. I said no, I thought they were probably >busy on another line too. > >If you would like to call the National Environmental Trust, the >number is: 202-887-8800. > >****************************************** > >from Beth Burrows >at >The Edmonds Institute >beb@igc.org > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 15:19:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06688 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA03320 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:43:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA03304 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id NAA219870 (8.9.1/50); Fri, 21 May 1999 13:42:53 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990518133430.007049ac@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:34:30 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Re: raw milk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 975 I have never heard that raw milk is harder to digest, but have experienced just the opposite. I cannot consume pasturized milk without consequences, but raw milk is just fine. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 15:29:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06817 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA05505 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:48:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA05479 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:47:42 -0500 Message-ID: <199905211345570020.00DC79AB@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990521105221.007afdb0@crocker.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990521105221.007afdb0@crocker.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:45:57 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Mark" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: raw milk CSAs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA05483 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 976 State laws vary and three general categories of milk exist: Pasteurized Milk, Certified Raw Milk and Raw Milk Not for Human Consumption. Last time I checked (not recently), 32 states allowed the sale of Certified Raw Milk, which IS for human consumption. The certification process involves having a government inspector present daily, which drives up the cost. Be aware that potentially lethal diseases (like TB) are effectively transmitted via unpasteurized milk and milk derivatives. On the other hand, raw milk from healthy cows is generally more nutritious and better tasting. Just be damn sure your cows are disease free and the milk is handled hygienically Within the legal framework of your state or states, the CSA part of it will have to be worked out between the participating parties; producers, distributors and consumers; within the the legal framework relating to commerce (as distinct from public health). If you cross state lines, you will have to take into account any federal law applicable. These are referred to in: "An Evaluation of the Role of Microbiological Criteria for Foods and Food Ingredients" National Academy Press. My copy is dated 1985 and was sent by Chuck Benbrook* who was head of the Board on Agriculture of the National research Council at the time (1989), when I was consulting for the local municipal government here. There may be a later edition. DH * Governments need more people like him in positions of authority, so that public policies are both enlightened and support the public interest. The fact that he is no longer there is yet another indicator suggesting that the direction public policies have taken during the last ten years is suspect (at least in part) and we should not forget that this too is subject to influence from knowledgeable members of the public (like many on this list), so that it is not only the private, self serving commercial interests that have access to the ear of those in positions of power. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 21/05/99 at 10:52 AM Mark wrote: >Here in MA most dairy farmers do not publicly sell raw milk (so I've been >told). The reason I have heard is that many people, especially children, >who do not grow up on a dairy farm or who do not drink the raw milk often >have a hard time digesting it. I was told it has something to do with >exposure to organisms (bacteria, etc) that farm kids grow up with. A dairy >farmer in MA gave some samples to suburban kids on a farm tour and some got >quite sick. Can they sell raw milk in VT? > >Mark >---------------------------------------------------- >Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) >An independent non-profit organization > >c/o Hampshire College >893 West Street >Amherst MA 01002-5001 >T: 413-559-5338 >F: 413-559-5404 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 15:31:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06842 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07832 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:54:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07809 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA04487 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000a01bea3ba$e5681240$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "sanet" Subject: Re: Bt corn and butterflies Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:51:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 977 Sanet: One of my colleagues pointed out to me that, in addition to the effect of the Bt corn pollen on wild butterflies like monarchs, this also has implications for the use of refugia in attempting to delay the development of resistance to Bt in corn crop pests. The point of having refugia (plantings of corn which are not Bt-transformed or treated with Bt -- they can be treated with other insecticides, in which case they must be much larger, or they can be treated with no insecticide at all) is to have a supply of caterpillars of European corn borer and other corn lepidopteran pests (e.g. corn earworm and fall armyworm) that are not exposed to Bt and thus not under selection pressure for resistance. This susceptible population is supposed to swamp any rare genes for resistance to Bt. The assumption has been that these rare genes for resistance would be recessive. That assumption was called into question by the article in Science last week. The assumption that these caterpillars would not be exposed to Bt in the refugia is called into question by this new article, pointing out that the Bt-transformation is expressed substantially in the pollen. This Bt pollen would be all over the plants in the refugia (which are supposed to be planted close to the Bt corn to ensure mating between the resistant and susceptible moths). During the stages when the caterpillars are feeding out on the plants (as opposed to tunneling within the stalk) they would be eating this pollen along with plant material. Thus, they would be exposed to variable doses of Bt (the very thing the high-dose strategy is supposed to avoid). Also, corn earworms feeding in the silk might be exposed to variable doses of Bt pollen stuck on the corn silk (and maybe in the pollen tubes growing down the silk?) So, another assumption on which the deployment strategy for Bt-corn was based may be wrong. Kim Stoner CT Agricultural Experiment Station P.O. Box 1106 New Haven, CT 06504 203-974-8480 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 15:41:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA07009 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA13805 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:01:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from NIH2WAAE (smtp5.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA13763 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:00:43 -0400 Received: from [216.192.109.82] (mid-qbu-nqr-vty54.as.wcom.net [216.192.110.54]) by dub-img-ims-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.7) with ESMTP id OAA06701 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: LawsonValentine@pop.site1.csi.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199905211334300610.00D2000D@acnet.net> References: <199905211334300610.00D2000D@acnet.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:58:02 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Lucy Miller Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 978 She has publicly stated that leaving Monsanto and joining the NET required no change of heart. (See interview in the latest Ag Examiner) >Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by >what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the >company? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 16:10:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07730 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA00961 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:30:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA00891 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26887>; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:33:25 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Mark cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99May21.143325cdt.26887@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:28:51 -0500 Subject: Re: skinny pigs- not! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 979 Mark said: You should marinate with a mixture containing a vegetable oil if you like more moisture... You also don't have to cook pork as long as our grandmothers did since trichinosis has been wiped out... Mark on 05/21/99 11:53:59 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: Subject: Re: skinny pigs Barbeque season is upon us, and now comes the sad news of skinny pigs... I cannot tell you how disappointed I am with the state of commercial pork in the U.S. ; lots of others are too. We demand real pigs! Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 16:58:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08594 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA05487 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:24:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA05464 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 5955 ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:26:29 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3963; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:26:29 -0400 Message-Id: <21MAY99.17756809.0074.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:26:29 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: Subject: Canadian Organic Standard Update X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 980 Update on Canadian Standard for Organic Agriculture C**/CGSB-32.310 The Canadian General Standards Board (CGSB) announced May 18, that the draft standard has received second level approval by the CGSB Panel on Process Assurance and approval by the Standards Council of Canada (SCC). This means that SCC is satisfied that the draft standard conforms to the requirements for "National Standards" in Canada. Official publication of the standard is expected in June. The standard will be used in the future as a basis for SCC to accredit certifying bodies in Canada. Further information can be obtained from: Marian Gaucher, GCSB Marian.L.Gaucher@pwgsc.gc.ca Canadian Organic Advisory Board www.coab.ca It has taken 10 years, and a great deal of effort by countless individuals. Now the task is to make it work. John Henning, McGIll U. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 17:00:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08623 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA05997 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:27:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05983 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (pool-207-205-185-71.clev.grid.net [207.205.185.71]) by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12358 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990521202554.00666a20@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: terraverde@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:25:54 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Terra Verde Subject: Herbicides Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 981 >From 5/20/99 issue of Farm and Dairy (Salem,OH) Columbus- Tests by Ohio State and private industry show that common ragweed and giant ragweed are developing resistance to ALS (acetolactate synthase) herbicides. ALS products include Classic, Canopy, Canopy XL, Synchrony STS, Exceed, Spirit, Beacon, Scepter, Squadron, Detail, Pursuit, Raptor, Lightning and FirstRate. "It's not something to be alarmist about, but farmers should keep it in mind if they're starting to have control problems," said weed scientist Stachler. In all but one case, weed samples in OSU's test came from fields planted in soybeans for two to three years, and were treated every year with ALS herbicides, Stachler said. Weed samples were from all parts of the state, but especially from western areas. OSU also found weeds were resistant to the three classes of ALS products, so switching to another ALS product isn't likely to guarantee control. Stachler said the problem has resulted from repeated consecutive use of ALS products in fields planted with only soybeans in consecutive years. The herbicides killed non-resistant weeds, while weeds with some resistance gained ground. The problem could have been lessened with crop rotation and varied herbicides. ALS herbicides act by interfering with particular enzyme in the weed and disrupting biological processes necesarry for its survival. "The weeds we tested are resistant because the enzyme keeps functioning even though we put herbicide on it" Stachler said. When ALS herbicides came to the market, farmers quickly adopted them because they controlled ragweed better with less crop injury than did precursors. Also, they are applied pre-emergence or postemergence, while the older herbicides are only applied postemergence. Postemergence, non-ALS treatments include Flexstar and Cobra, as well as Roundup Ultra for Roundup Ready soybeans. Apply before common ragweed is 4-6 inches tall, and before giant ragweed is 8-12 inches tall, although Roundup Ultra can be applied on taller weeds using higher, labeled rates. Report resistance problems to Stachler at 614-292-1393, or by e-mail at: stachler.1@osu.edu. Study the topic by consulting OSU Extension Bulletin 789, "Weed Control Guide for Ohio Field Crops," available at Extension offices or on line at www.ag.ohio-state.edu/online/b789/index.html. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 17:07:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08767 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09365 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:34:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09310 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:34:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool034-max8.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.84]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id LLTZ4MJS; Fri, 21 May 1999 16:34:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3745C5E6.FEA55EA7@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:45:26 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: job announcement References: <199905211827.OAA24267@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 982 Please repost this, it did not come through on the digest thanks webmaster@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 17:52:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09677 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA07739 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:18:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA07717 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.146.5] (dialup-0517.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.146.5]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19455 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 22:18:02 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <99May21.143325cdt.26887@mint.cwb.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:20:18 +0100 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: skinny pigs- not! Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 983 > >You should marinate with a mixture containing a vegetable oil if you like more >moisture... You also don't have to cook pork as long as our grandmothers did >since trichinosis has been wiped out... > Pat you've just made Mark's point for him - the point is he wants his tender pork to taste of pork fat, not vegetable fat kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 18:03:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10275 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06563 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:15:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA06554 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 17:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.199] (term6-7.vta.west.net [205.254.241.199]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C50A324B56 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:13:29 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: I second the request not to post original piece in responses Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 984 phil gillman wrote: >PLEASE EVERYBODY, DO NOT POST THE REFERED TO PEICE IN YOUR RESPONSES. I >get the digest version, and it fills up fast- I second that. Beth von Gunten To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 19:11:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA13710 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 19:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA29803 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:38:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA29729 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA08249 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 18:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-47.nidlink.com [216.18.141.54]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA09105 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 15:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990521224450.00bf10c4@mail.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:44:50 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Green Revolution and World Food Needs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 985 Most people now accept that "beneficial" technological advances in agriculture must increase production or reduce costs; at least sustain the resource base; not impair water quality, cause wildlife poisonings, loss of biodiversity (compared to where farming areas now are, of course); and not inherently or institutional aggravate disparity in incomes or access to food. The Green Revolution really produced only one real technological advance -- the breeding of dwarf grain varieties suited to the subtropics, which made it possible for farmers to use irrigation plus high levels of fertilizer. It did nothing to improve efficiency of N uptake (it generally slipped); has led to all sorts of soil quality and social problems from lousy irrigation practices (waterlogging, salinity, compaction); it created many new pests, necessitating major increase in dependence on pesticides, with all the attendant problems. Had the breeding advances of the Green Revolution been coupled with, and introduced in conjunction with comparable advances in soil fertility enhancement and nutrient cycling, irrigation management, pest management, and marketing, it would have had fundamentally different outcomes and would deserve the credit and praise some still bestow on it. Until people, institutions, NGOs, governments and the private sector approach world food problems from a systems point of view, with a high degree of discipline to assure that all pieces of the puzzle are in place when and as needed, sustainable progress will remain hard to come by and at best fleeting. chuck benbrook Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 21 23:13:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20110 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 23:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA00515 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 21 May 1999 22:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00473 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 22:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp52.epix.net [209.74.60.52]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA25447; Fri, 21 May 1999 22:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3746183D.7314F838@epix.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:36:45 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp CC: Pat Elazar , Roberto Verzola , lonrom@hevanet.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution) References: <000f01bea380$4965c3e0$d95f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 986 Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > Steve, > Do you really think most that have adapted no-till have widened their > rotation? definately not! > I don't see much besides no-till corn followed with no-till beans > around here. I think thats hardly more than an alternation of crops. Its a > far cry from a rotation. I agree totally. Rotation and cover crops do as much for me as no-till does. It's a systems approach. > I don't have any idea on the amount of chemicals > they are applying but I would guess that the no-till farmers that use > reduced rates are about as few and far between as the farmers who use > tillage. It's the long term no tillers who are able to reduce rates, even corn bean farmers. Recreational no tilling will not cuts rates. > I've seen the video on your farm and what you are doing is a very > sensible aproach. Very low chemical and low erosion aproach to growing > vegetables. I have a very hard time lumping all the no-till farmers in with > you. I constantly stuggle with that. I am *not* a typical midwest no till corn/bean farmer. > I doubt if most, just like tillage farmers, are not at all concerned > about sustainability. you're right. > > > I still don't understand why we have to grow so much corn(no-tilled or not) > in this country and turn around and feed it to ruminant animals. No-till is > better than molboard on erosion but it doesn't compare to untilled > grass/legume pasture. keep preaching that message! > > > Have you got all your vegetables in the ground? everything is on schedule. tommorrow another batch of peppers and tomatoes go in. then it's pumpkins and 20 acres of processing tomatoes the first week of June. Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:25:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22728 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29592 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:48:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29410 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06936; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37465789.6BE6990B@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:06:49 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Gillman CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Raw Milk CSA's References: <199905202112.RAA22926@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37459A34.D6C252B8@cafarmersmarkets.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 987 The reason it is so hard for me to get raw milk is that in Calif it is illegal unless--certain rules,. Fact is in Calif there is on;ly one dairy that is allowed to sell it raw, Alta Dena, and that is because it is so careful, is under medical supervision, et et c etc Their milk just sours eventually. From other dairies the milk just plain STINKS when it gets older--it does not sour. Phil Gillman wrote: > You know, perhaps this would not be considered "selling" the milk if you > word the CSA contract well- After all, the members are "shareholders", > and the milk is their "dividend" > > No need for special "raw milk licencing" (which you may not need in VT > any way) > > BUT, be sure to Include and indemnity from liability in the CSA > contract, You know, make everyone aware that they are choosing to drink > raw milk and that there may be some risks involved (although i've never > know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, and i've been drinking it all > my life- ;-) > > Best of luck- > Phil Gillman > pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:25:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22736 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29527 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:48:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29377 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06929; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374653A8.FA428330@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:50:16 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1042 References: <85256778.0054C08F.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 988 whatever Americans eat no longer matters much. Already 1 out of every 2 Americans gets cancer. Just wait, pretty soon it will be not just 50% but 75 % and then 100 %. Good, the industry is saved and there will be no more people. Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov wrote: > Re: Benbrook's statement, > > Chuck, Americans, as citizens of one of the earliest nations to be highly > industrialized with the great majority of its citizens not working on or near > the farm, have long lost contact with the production of food . Now we are > losing contact with the raw product itself. Reading Alden Manchester's studies > and other highly informative research by other astute observers of the way of > American eating, one fact really jumps out. Over half of our food consumption > now comes from restaurants or other outlets for prepared food. Even in grocery > stores, more and more of the food purchased is not the raw product, but a > processed form of it. I kiddingly laughed at the cut onions and other > vegetables being sold at my local supermarket and wondered aloud who would pay > the extra money to save a few seconds. The manager countered that such > conveniences were hot items. At this store at least, the space devoted to the > raw product is declining to provide for more space for the increasing demand for > the processed versions. > > Hence, the concept of GMO or otherwise modified raw food strikes less and less a > chord in Americans because fewer Americans buy the raw ingredient that may or > may not be labelled. If you get "food" processed, and buy according to how it > looks process -- at least one step removed from the thing that once resembled > the plant--, it does not matter to you what the raw product was. Of more > importance to you is the processing or what was added or removed in processing. > >From a health perspective, that is probably correct. > > Americans do buy low fat foods. However, they eat twice the normal amount of > it. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:25:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22740 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29271 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29247 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA15245 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06839; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3746449F.A14AA49A@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:46:07 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lynn G. Knight" CC: "sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Raw Milk CSAs References: <37447052.11C4A8E9@vt.usda.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 989 There was one small dairy that sold raw milk, and in bottles. This man was spectacurally successful, but he got old and not one wanted to take it over, and his wife was ill, so he just sold it off as land, finally. But his milk was so good, people came from far away to get it. Women would make driving pools--they took turns driving that far and got milk for all the rest in the group. I wrote a long article about the demise of this milking farm. I am sure if it were possible to buck the laws and do all required by law, anyone who would sell raw milk as he did would find the same loyal customers. I would be a good customer. Lynn G. Knight wrote: > A local farmer is investigating the possibilities of > starting up a CSA for (raw) milk here in Vermont. Does > > anyone have any experience in this area? We heard that > > there is a farm somewhere in Colorado that is currently > > doing this. > > Any leads would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in > Advance.... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Lynn G. Knight > Agricultural Economist > USDA NRCS > > Lynn G. Knight > Agricultural Economist > USDA NRCS > USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service 69 Union Street;Winooski;VT ;05404;USA Fax: (802) 951-6327 > Work: (802) 951-6796 x241 > Netscape Conference Address > Netscape Conference DLS Server > Additional Information: > Last Name Knight > First Name Lynn G. > Version 2.1 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:25:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22744 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29652 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:48:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29515 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06957; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37465B69.E93F97F7@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:23:21 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas M. Hinds" CC: Mark , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: raw milk CSAs References: <3.0.6.32.19990521105221.007afdb0@crocker.com> <199905211345570020.00DC79AB@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 990 that's probably why there is just one certified dairy in Calif---AltaDena--the one I always go for. There is organic milk but from a huge outfit and not meeting what Alta Dena meets for govt. Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > State laws vary and three general categories of milk exist: Pasteurized Milk, Certified Raw Milk and Raw Milk Not for Human Consumption. Last time I checked (not recently), 32 states allowed the sale of Certified Raw Milk, which IS for human consumption. The certification process involves having a government inspector present daily, which drives up the cost. > > Be aware that potentially lethal diseases (like TB) are effectively transmitted via unpasteurized milk and milk derivatives. On the other hand, raw milk from healthy cows is generally more nutritious and better tasting. Just be damn sure your cows are disease free and the milk is handled hygienically > > Within the legal framework of your state or states, the CSA part of it will have to be worked out between the participating parties; producers, distributors and consumers; within the the legal framework relating to commerce (as distinct from public health). If you cross state lines, you will have to take into account any federal law applicable. These are referred to in: > > "An Evaluation of the Role of Microbiological Criteria for Foods and Food Ingredients" > > National Academy Press. My copy is dated 1985 and was sent by Chuck Benbrook* who was head of the Board on Agriculture of the National research Council at the time (1989), when I was consulting for the local municipal government here. There may be a later edition. > > DH > > * Governments need more people like him in positions of authority, so that public policies are both enlightened and support the public interest. The fact that he is no longer there is yet another indicator suggesting that the direction public policies have taken during the last ten years is suspect (at least in part) and we should not forget that this too is subject to influence from knowledgeable members of the public (like many on this list), so that it is not only the private, self serving commercial interests that have access to the ear of those in positions of power. > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 21/05/99 at 10:52 AM Mark wrote: > > >Here in MA most dairy farmers do not publicly sell raw milk (so I've been > >told). The reason I have heard is that many people, especially children, > >who do not grow up on a dairy farm or who do not drink the raw milk often > >have a hard time digesting it. I was told it has something to do with > >exposure to organisms (bacteria, etc) that farm kids grow up with. A dairy > >farmer in MA gave some samples to suburban kids on a farm tour and some got > >quite sick. Can they sell raw milk in VT? > > > >Mark > >---------------------------------------------------- > >Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > >An independent non-profit organization > > > >c/o Hampshire College > >893 West Street > >Amherst MA 01002-5001 > >T: 413-559-5338 > >F: 413-559-5404 > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > Douglas M. Hinds > Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) > (Center for Community and Rural Development) > Petronilo Lopez No. 73 > Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO > e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:26:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22748 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29133 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:46:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29052 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06622; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3746315F.7C50FA90@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:23:59 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Anderson CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1036 References: <3.0.3.32.19990520082510.00c9d6dc@staff.uiuc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 991 Why does everybody keep quoting that Avery? I figured the very first time I encountered his silly talk, that he is completely dominated by Satan. When the Creator restores Eden, pretty soon, such people will have been wiped out by the Creator, and no one there will ever need to worry about anything for soil---nothing like that needed in a perfect world. Of course, most people would dismiss such talk without a second's thought. =================== Dan Anderson wrote: > In response to Victoria's post (below), > > Mark David and Lowell Gentry are doing some fresh N work here in Illinois. They have one paper published and one in review. It might give you a place to start. The papers are: > > Nitrogen Balance in and Export from an Agricultural Watershed. Journal of Environmental Quality, vol26, no. 4, July-August 1997 > > Historical Trends in Net Anthropogenic Inputs of N and P and Riverine Export in a Predominantly Agricultural U.S. State. Journal of Environmental Quality (in review). > > --Dan > > >In an article published in _Choices_ magazine (First Quarter 1997, p. > >10-13), Mr. Avery brought up a point that I'd appreciate some research > >direction on...it appeared to be a point that does need addressing instead > >of dismissing. > > > >He says that we do not have enough organic nitrogen to support organic > >production. He suggests that the only way to get the necessary N is to > >clear forests to plant more legumes. > > > >Of course his suggestion is narrow-minded and he ignores a whole raft of > >issues such as conservation of N and sensible usage, but the question of > >N-sufficiency did give me pause. I especially had to stop to think because > >most of the organic farmers I talk to *do* tend to import N in the form of > >off-farm compost, off-farm manure, etc. Their goal is always not to have > >to do so, but this goal seems difficult to achieve. > > > >I'd welcome ideas, especially those that lead me to the library. > > Dan Anderson > Agroecology/Sustainable Agriculture Program > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign > Dept. of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences > W-503 Turner Hall > 1102 S. Goodwin > Urbana, IL 61801 MC-047 > 217/333-1588 > 217/333-7370 fax > aslan@uiuc.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:26:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22752 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:26:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29605 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:48:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29451 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06950; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37465A68.C224B7A2@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:19:04 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bluestem Associates CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Nitrogen in Organic Agriculture References: <199905210235.WAA10590@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 992 On Friday someone wrote about Nfix, esp on nfix by root surface bacteria (I think), and I deleted it by accident. Would whoever wrote that please repeat it so I can have it for my files? Please !! and thanks. ======================== Bluestem Associates wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 1999 14:08:21 -0500, Ronald Nigh wrote: > > >And of course the exact same nitrogenase (only one has eolved) catalyzes > >free-living N fization as well. > > There are some fairly good indications that *vanadium* is a facultative > (and perhaps obligate) substitution for molydenum in several genera of > non-symbiotic nitrogen fixers. I'm trying to find the citations, but > so far without success. > > Some of the non-symbiotic microbes also run with an Fe-S flavour of > nitrogenase. > > Most non-symbiotes would be doing very well to fix 50 kg/ha nitrogen. > Except in fairly anaerobic environments -- rice, for example -- I > wouldn't go out of my way to encourage them, to say nothing of *add* > them to the soil. They are, however, a delightlfully fascinating > component of creation. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:34:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22772 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29237 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29227 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06803; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37464308.3AEFC4F6@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:39:21 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julie CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery & N supply References: <5FBD6AB7F00@agecon.uga.edu> <00cc01bea2fd$bb9ce5c0$9c4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 993 I have a very hard time getting raw milk, and there is only 1 dairy that sells it--I have to drive a long ways to that store, and even then, I should have phoned first to ask them to keep a bottle for me. But for those who have surplus milk to sell, start telling people to spray their crops with it. no more expensive than poisons, and milk really works. The man who showed me this had surplus milk on a special small community farm where he did all the growing of food and providing of milk, etc. He utilized the excess milk on the grape vines. The vines and grape bunches were so extremely successful that the weight just broke down all the strong supports for the vines he had built. I mean strong--redwood posts sunk deep and heavy wire strung between them. Everything ended up on the ground. We would all help each other if we promoted use of excess milk for spraying crops and watering the ground/soil organisms. Julie wrote: > Dear Anita & friends > > Anita wrote: > > > Victoria, how about addressing the major pollution problem of > > nitrogen runoff? Much of this *is* from commercial fertilizers, but > > there is a lot that also comes from livestock operations. Why is it > > that "waste disposal" of N-rich manures is such a big problem for > > many dairies and other livestock operations at the same time that > > people are paying big bucks for synthetic nitrogen? I think that > > Avery's assumptions only make sense assuming that we continue this > > assinine custom of leaving major breaks in the nutrient cycle. > > I think that the problem for today's dairies, et al, of waste disposal, is > the concentration of livestock in increasingly confinement-style farming > situations. If you jump on Graze-r, you will see that even the smaller dairy > farmers are musing about expansion to at least 350 cows to support a single > family in the future. Right now, less than 100 is barely getting by, but > land is being snapped up by developers, suburbs, etc. There is less land, > but more animals "required". Expansion has simply become the only perceived > way out of a desperate situation. > > The pollution comes back to the economic situation...yeah, everyone's > screaming about run-off, while they're running to the 7-11 for their cheap > gallon of milk. That milk comes from big dairies, with lots of cows & lots > of manure with less land to spread it on. We were recently asked by our > dairy to donate a day's worth of milk for export to 3rd world countries, as > a sort of gimmicky-protest sort > of move (yeah, us with our measly 40-cow herd). Also, get this...to cull > (read, send to slaughter) 4 cows from my herd (this was asked of all > producers...what sort of lunacy is THAT?!) to put a "dent" in the supposed > surplus of milk, which drove the prices to a lousy $11-per hundred lbs. for > us here on the farm (minus the fed.& state's cut, marketing fees & milk > hauling, right off the top, then feed, electricity, vet, etc.) > BTW, you can figure out the math...a gallon of milk weighs 8.6 lbs., so > SOMEONE'S doing ok. I asked the solicitor of this donation how the heck > could I afford this, and mostly WHY should I do it...if there's a surplus > why not ask the consumers to buy TWO gallons of milk at the 7-11 & have them > dump one!? I could keep my cows and my milk! > > So perhaps instead of pointing the finger at farmers, we should look to our > own individual consumer habits. I remember you saying that you buy organic & > that's a great start...but I've come to feel that more connection with one's > source of sustenance is really the next step. People devote so little > energy/time to their most basic of needs...food. > > When we lived in the far west suburbs of Chicago, we sought out a dairy > farmer in the outlying farm area...in Oswego, IL, who sold raw milk to > whoever would line up with their gallon jugs at milking time. It was amusing > actually. Some of the local Hispanic folk would come too, for cheesemaking > milk...but you know what? We were the only suburbanites there getting our > raw milk (it did come to be a fun family-outing sort of thing, and we > learned how to make cheese, despite the language barrier, with lime & salt). > I think its illegal now, to sell raw milk. Another choice we as consumers > have allowed to be taken from us. But I don't really think many have even > noticed. > > > Certainly cover cropping in a crop rotation is critical, but if this > > isn't sufficient, maybe organic ag needs to take a clue from the > > biodynamics people and give some consideration to making their > > operations into "farm organisms." The first part of this having > > livestock on the land -- the natural source of high quality > > nutrients, including the precious nitrogen. One last comment, > > manures need to be properly handled (composted) for ultimate nutrient > > value and food safety. > > As you know, I'm a BD fan & student. I can't think of anything more > perfect than spiritual agriculture. It is an honor to be a caretaker of the > land. > But again, a family farmer who's milking 100 cows hardly has time to grow > the feed, harvest the hay, etc. and keep his off-farm job too. The > "organism" being multi-faceted requires additional time & energy to develop > & maintain. Many farmers today aren't > even raising their own young stock...they ship out the calves to heifer > farms, where they're raised & sent back bred & ready to freshen! Like > factory piecework. This little picture in our minds of the dairy farm you > see on the milk cartons is rapidly becoming the only place that such farm > "organisms" exists. It's the ideal...but I'd sure like to see the faces of > the corporate execs at, for example Horizon, or other mega-organic > organizations, when the biodynamic suggestion is made at the board meeting. > > It really lies in lap of the consumer. Do you really think you will get big > financially-driven groups, organic cooperatives, & companies to recognize > that food carries more than the basic vitamins & minerals (and a nice price > tag) that it > actually carries a VIBE? This is going to have to come from the person > consuming the > food. You should be working on the consumers...that's when I became involved > with my food, as a consumer...seeing that old farmer handle those cows > kindly...I just knew the milk was better. I rec'd confirmation from "The > Secret Life of > Plants" that plants respond to human emotion (both negative & positive) > and have seen that a happy cow produces better, the hormones produced by a > frightened, > confined, or mistreated animal are bound to be in her milk, etc. This is a > bit far-out for Sanet, I know...but my point is...the farmer only supplies > what > the public demands...so energy is best directed at the the demand end of the > chain. Unfortunately, $ speaks louder than words.... > > Sorry for the rant... > > Julie > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:39:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22791 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29226 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29208 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06794; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37463EF1.B2F3F71D@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:21:53 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery & N supply References: <5FBD6AB7F00@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 994 why does everybody pay attention to that miserable man? not worth anything, let alone attention like this. Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Victoria Mundy wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > In an article published in _Choices_ magazine (First Quarter 1997, p. > > 10-13), Mr. Avery brought up a point that I'd appreciate some research > > direction on...it appeared to be a point that does need addressing instead > > of dismissing. > > > > He says that we do not have enough organic nitrogen to support organic > > production. He suggests that the only way to get the necessary N is to > > clear forests to plant more legumes. > > Victoria, how about addressing the major pollution problem of > nitrogen runoff? Much of this *is* from commercial fertilizers, but > there is a lot that also comes from livestock operations. Why is it > that "waste disposal" of N-rich manures is such a big problem for > many dairies and other livestock operations at the same time that > people are paying big bucks for synthetic nitrogen? I think that > Avery's assumptions only make sense assuming that we continue this > assinine custom of leaving major breaks in the nutrient cycle. > > >most of the organic farmers I talk to *do* tend to import N in the > >form of off-farm compost, off-farm manure, etc. Their goal is > >always not to have to do so, but this goal seems difficult to > >achieve. > > Certainly cover cropping in a crop rotation is critical, but if this > isn't sufficient, maybe organic ag needs to take a clue from the > biodynamics people and give some consideration to making their > operations into "farm organisms." The first part of this having > livestock on the land -- the natural source of high quality > nutrients, including the precious nitrogen. One last comment, > manures need to be properly handled (composted) for ultimate nutrient > value and food safety. Anita > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:39:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22796 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29001 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:46:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA28922 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:46:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06595; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37462EAB.CA20DF8A@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:12:27 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bluestem Associates CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Nitrogen in organic agriculture References: <199905201008.GAA10502@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 995 Seems to me most people have a very limited idea of nfix. That is why I made a special effort to explain things. In the index of the Organic Method Primer UPDATE, I find on pg 550 of the index, under Molybdenum: deficiency in cauliflower. 155 deficiency symptoms 35 essential in N fix, for enzyme involved 72 excess 36 mapped 18 needed for legume, chickpea needed to fight virus 408 required by nitrogenase in fixing nitrogen 61 tightly attached to polysaccharide sugar chain 16 But who reads the Primer UPDATE??????????????????????????????? Bluestem Associates wrote: > I should think if any group would understand that use patterns and > results would be all over the map, it would be *this* one. That said, > a few observations. > > Many (perhaps most) of the organic farms that I inspect do *not* > capture enough nitrogen to maintain a productive system over the long > term. In that respect Avery and some of the other naysayers have a > valid *empirical* point. These farms, however, are almost always short > of nitrogen owing to poor nitrogen management (insufficient N fixation, > manure management problems, etc.). > > It is entirely possible for a well-managed organic farm to capture all > the nitrogen needed for "high-yield" production. In fact, it is not at > all uncommon for an organic system to become too *rich* in nitrogen one > or two rotation cycles after the transition, at which point the grower > shifts to mixed hay (rather than straight legumes) and things settle > down. > > Virtually all farmers (organic and otherwise) neglect the valuable role > played by molybdenum in improving the efficiency of nitrogen capture. > With well-considered additions of molybdenum, it is quite possible to > capture more solar energy (through increased yields) than can be > released from an equal weight of uranium via nuclear power. A few grams > per hectare is usually all that it takes, added with inoculant at > seeding. This because the nitrogenase component of the rhizobial > nitrogen fixation reaction is dependent on an Fe-Mo protein, with moly > being the limiting factor. > > Editorial comment about Chilean nitrate --- if organic is to allow any > soluble nitrogen at all, it should be in the form of ammonium sulfate, > not as a nitrate. Every other nutrient sulfate is already permitted, > and AS is much better for soil microbes than the nitrates. Also, any > idea that an organic inspector can determine the difference between > 10-20 kg/ha nitrate and 50-60 kg/ha or even more (split apps) is ... > pure fantasy. > > I have to chuckle when the naysayers criticise organic production as > "inefficient" when their Farm Bureau buddies routinely knife in 400 > units of anhydrous per acre every autumn and then have to come back > over their corn with liquid 28 the following season just to make sure > they have "enough." > > Conventional American agriculture is "efficient" (I suppose) in the > same way as the American consumer economy. You can jump into a 2-ton > SUV and drive it three blocks to pick up a 2-ounce packet of razor > blades, and marvel at the "efficiency" of it all--- and look down one's > nose at the scruffy unshaven neighbours -- but it is tragically > laughable to conclude from that situation that walking and bicycles are > inadequate. > > Bart Hall > Lawrence, Kansas > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 04:48:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA22830 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 04:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29282 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29278 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 03:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool195-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.195]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06857; Sat, 22 May 1999 00:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37464705.418F57F0@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:56:21 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bluestem Associates CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Different Strokes References: <199905210202.WAA20570@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 996 America is the only country in the world where HALF of the people get cancer. Yes, it is true, every other American gets cancer. Only recently it was 1 in 3. then 1 in 2.5, and now it is in in 2. That is half. HALF OF ALL AMERICANS GET CANCER. "Let them eat cake" yeah, let them eat what they want, as they don't have much longer to live. ========================== Bluestem Associates wrote: > On Thu, 20 May 1999 09:29:50 -0700, Charles Benbrook wrote: > > > More and more people are noticing the decisive differences in the > >willingness and political ability of U.S. public health and regulatory > >agencies to act in the face of adverse information documenting real risks. > > This in a country where the very same agency nevertheless requires a > "Nutrition Facts" panel fully informing the American consumer of the > protein content of mineral water, while denying any requests for GMO > labelling and attempting to eliminate existing radiation labelling. > Straight out of Kafka ... > > Americans have the most complete nutrition labelling of any country in > the world, yet I have never seen an un-healthier, less fit lot than > this. > > My cynical side says that in this nation --- where the favourite > "vegetable" is French Fries, where Crisco gets 93% of its product > revenue from seven southern states, and where close to a majority are > obese (not just overweight) --- most people simply don't care whether > or not they eat GMOs, and the regulators know it. If you have any > doubts, look at photos from American service stations back in the '40s > and '50s, and then look around the next time when you tank up. > > McDonalds was a true watershed in American food, health and nutrition, > the arrival of that company pretty well marking the beginning of > simultaneous disintegration in the farm economy and consumer health. > GMO / irradiation and associated labelling / regulatory issues are but > a symptom of the McFood phenomenon, which (I suspect) is why we're > having so much trouble getting anywhere with the regulators. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 12:57:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26287 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 12:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA12176 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 12:15:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12152 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 12:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FLYLO (ppp239.cy-net.net [208.21.195.48]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA10371 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 11:15:10 -0500 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BEA441.7C022F20@FLYLO>; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:54:37 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA441.7C022F20@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: milk thread Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:53:34 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 997 Milk may be off topic, but here goes: I haven't read everything in SANET on this topic but wanted to comment on some points. I've been milking (and drinking) goats milk for over 10 years, and it's always been in the raw form, or as yogurt or cheese. Goat milk is somewhat easier to digest than cow milk, and raw milk is easier to digest than 'store stuff', no matter what the origin. Goat milk is naturally homogenized, the fat does not coagulate and rise, but is interspersed throughout the milk fluids. Somewhere I read it takes about 30 minutes to digest goat milk vs up to 4 hours to digest homogenized cow milk. The mechanical homogenization process strips the milk of it's buffers and causes an acid reaction in the intestine when digested. Normally, goat milk and probably raw cow milk is slightly alkaline but store stuff will test acid. Goat milk does not contain carotene so cheese and any cream from it will always remain shocking white. It makes a good formula for infant or orphan animal feeding, but human infants need the addition of folic acid, as goat milk does not contain this. Goats do not readily contract TB or brucellosis, and generally, if you find a reliable supply of goat milk, it hasn't been pumped into a vat with 10,000 other animals from around the US. Somatic cell counts on goats are not reliable because the tests are based on cow averages and goats regularly shed more cells than cows during lactation. In 1985 they issued laws in Tx to make on-farm raw milk sales illegal without a Grade A dairy facility. In 1997, it became legal to sell 'pet quality' milk only. Even so, an inspector must visit the facility at least quarterly to check health and cleanliness of the stock and milk parlor. An added benefit, osteoporisis is not in my vocabulary! martha (raising Oberhasli dairy goats since 1983). To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 12:58:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26296 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 12:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA18067 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 12:23:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18052 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 12:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24758 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:23:11 -0600 Received: from edandsue (dialup0436.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.54.25]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA125682 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:23:10 -0600 Message-ID: <00e901bea46e$7ed1f780$19365281@edandsue.colostate.edu> From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Subject: Who Funds National Environmental Trust? Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:16:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E6_01BEA43C.33A077A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 998 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01BEA43C.33A077A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Who/What is the National Environmental Trust? Who funds it? I did not = find the web page forthcomming in this regard. 1306 Whedbee St Ft Collins, CO 80524 970-407-1373 ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01BEA43C.33A077A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Who/What is the National Environmental Trust?  = Who funds=20 it? I did not find the web page forthcomming in this = regard.
     
     
    1306 Whedbee St
    Ft Collins, = CO =20 80524
    970-407-1373
    ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01BEA43C.33A077A0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 19:04:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA01080 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA10838 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 18:30:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hamp.hampshire.edu (ednS94@hamp.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.137]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA10830 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 18:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ednS94@localhost) by hamp.hampshire.edu (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25633; Sat, 22 May 1999 18:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:38:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric D Nash To: "Douglas M. Hinds" cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199905211334300610.00D2000D@acnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA10831 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 999 On Fri , 21 May 1999, Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > > Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the company? > > D H I certainly hope this is the case! Indeed I also would like to think that the numerous ex-monsanto employees now working for it's wholly-owned subsidiary the USDA have experienced similar changes of heart. Unfortunately, the statistics do not support this supposition. It is, alas, axiomatic that many of these revolving-door types end up back with their private sector sugar daddies after these periods of public 'service,' typically with hefty pay raises. I shudder to think of the degraded state of our republic when such perverse and patently antidemocratic antics become statndard practice (moan, whine, snivel)! Antidemocratic, but probably well intentioned, I like to think. E. > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 21/05/99 at 12:32 PM Eric D Nash wrote: > > >thought you all might find this tragic and/or comic > > > > > >[five lines deleted] > > > >> > >>According to the 1996 edition of Washington Representatives (Columbia Books > >>Inc.), Patricia G. Kenworthy was Director of Regulatory Affairs in > >>Washington, DC for Monsanto Company. (That's the equivalent of political > >>and lobby quarterback and she was no doubt paid a huge salary to be the > >>point person for Mosanto on government regulatory matters.) > >> > >>Now, she is with National Environmental Trust, the Washington, DC, > >>environmental group, and has been tapped to help develop their new > >>initiative to FIGHT agricultural biotechnology. > > > >I called the National Environmental Trust to confirm the details. > >Patricia, according to the receptionist was "busy on another line" so > >I asked if she were the same Patricia Kenworthy who used to be with > >Monsanto. The receptionist said yes and asked if I wanted to speak to > >their publicity department. I said no, I thought they were probably > >busy on another line too. > > > >If you would like to call the National Environmental Trust, the > >number is: 202-887-8800. > > > >****************************************** > > > >from Beth Burrows > >at > >The Edmonds Institute > >beb@igc.org > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 20:29:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA01906 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA01006 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:53:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00963 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.47]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 22 May 1999 18:52:24 -0500 Message-ID: <199905221850420810.03884819@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:50:42 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Eric D Nash" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA00966 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1000 Guess you missed Lucy's post. Doesn't sound good. On 21/05/99 at 2:58 PM Lucy Miller wrote: >She has publicly stated that leaving Monsanto and joining the NET >required no change of heart. (See interview in the latest Ag >Examiner) > >>Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by >>what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the >>company? > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 22/05/99 at 6:38 PM Eric D Nash wrote: >On Fri , 21 May 1999, Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > >> >> Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the company? >> >> D H > >I certainly hope this is the case! Indeed I also would like to think that >the numerous ex-monsanto employees now working for it's wholly-owned >subsidiary the USDA have experienced similar changes of heart. >Unfortunately, the statistics do not support this supposition. It is, >alas, axiomatic that many of these revolving-door types end up back with >their private sector sugar daddies after these periods of public >'service,' typically with hefty pay raises. > >I shudder to think of the degraded state of our republic when such >perverse and patently antidemocratic antics become statndard practice >(moan, whine, snivel)! Antidemocratic, but probably well intentioned, I >like to think. > >E. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 21:09:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02273 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA27441 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:31:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA27272 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.47]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 19:30:52 -0500 Message-ID: <199905221929110110.03AB8273@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:29:11 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Wanted: Sources for Information re BioControl of Pineapple Disease Organisms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA27291 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1001 The response to my post asking for specific solutions having been somewhat less than overwhelming (my thanks to those who did respond), how about responding with pertinent information sources? Example: The International Society for Molecular Plant-Microbe Interactions. http://www.scisoc.org/ismpmi/ Haven't got far into it yet but it looks promising. Got that through doing grunt, non agricultural web searches and looking for the good stuff.. CABI too would be good for those with budgets more ample than mine. Anyone else care to share sources for biocontrol research? For instance, I'm looking for interactions between Phytophthora (various pathogens) and other soil organisms and plan on doing a little inoculating. Nematodes inhibit them for instance. Are any nematodes at all beneficial? (As there are beneficial fungi). I remembered NIFTAL and got 23 fast hits to follow up. I am reposting the original list just as a reminder. (The scisoc seems to have a better one, but I stick with my locally derived list for now). I expect to be leaving soon and the mailboxes fill up fast, what with the lists. If someone replies and it comes back at you, try this one, which I don't even use: dhinds@tamps1.telmex.net.mx (came with my Reynosa ISP). If this fills up it won't lock, I'll just lose he first ones. The one that actually know me personally is ipnet and I could tell them to keep it ALL.. (The acnet people do too but they are too big a company to expect much follow up from). (Ants) - Solenopsis geminata Fabr and Conomyrma sp (they both bring in the mealybugs) (Mealybug - Homptera) - Dysmicoccus brevipes CKL or Pseudococcus brevipes (which is a vector for a virus) (Spider mite) - Dolichotetranychus floridanus (No english common name given - Lepidoptera) - Thecla basilides or Thecla echion (a tropical fruit worm) (White termite - Isoptera) Gnathamitermes tubidormans (White grub - Coleoptera) - Phyllophaga spp. (common boring grub) (No english common name given - Coleoptera) - Metamasius callizona (these black larvas attack the whole plant including the fruit, constructing galleries within them) (No english common name given - Sinphylla) - Hanseniella ivorensis (small while organisms that attack roots) (Nematodes of the genus') - Pratylenchus, Helicotylenchus, Tilenchorhynchus, Meloidogyne, Criconemoides, Aphelenchus, Radopholus, Tilenchus, Psilenchus y Hoploloimus (above all the first four) (Fungus' ) - Phytophthora parastica Dast, P. cinnammomi, P. cithophthora, P. parastica var. nicotianae y Pythium polimorphun (Bacteria) - Erwinia ananas Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 21:58:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03148 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA29564 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:28:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA29520 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (modem-pool-138.rain.org [198.68.145.138]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F6BD61776; Sat, 22 May 1999 18:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801bea4ba$7b3e37e0$8a9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Douglas M. Hinds" , "Eric D Nash" Cc: References: <199905221850420810.03884819@acnet.net> Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:20:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1002 I remember the 60 min. TV show where the man who got appertain to pass the FDA regulations later became a big shot with the company (same company the big Monsanto). it is a old game and they know how to play it . hummmm they always win. . I also remember reading where when the same company was trying to get the first GMO registered (the one that started all this and open the flood gates with the GMO they inject in cows) with the USDA a few of the USDA folks were former Monsanto company men. They seem to know when to send there big guns in to the fight and stack the deck. . It seems to me they exchange people quite often. looks to me like they are in bed together. the suckers don't have a chance to win when the deck is stacked. so whets new. it is called politics as usual. . So remember we are going up against a stacked deck and usually the sucker never knows what hit them. so we public comment and public comment and public comment till we are blue in the face giving the USDA our best reasoning but its a joke. The whole idea is to make us think it is a fair game and the public has a say but it is really a BIG CON. IMHO it's a big con and these folks are the biggest con artists the world has ever known. so when I hear that some USDA higher up just came over from Monsanto I guess I feel here we go again. They are taking us for another ride. What does NGO stand for. http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas M. Hinds To: Eric D Nash Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) > > Guess you missed Lucy's post. Doesn't sound good. > > On 21/05/99 at 2:58 PM Lucy Miller wrote: > > >She has publicly stated that leaving Monsanto and joining the NET > >required no change of heart. (See interview in the latest Ag > >Examiner) > > > >>Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by > >>what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the > >>company? > > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 22/05/99 at 6:38 PM Eric D Nash wrote: > > >On Fri , 21 May 1999, Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > > > >> > >> Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the company? > >> > >> D H > > > >I certainly hope this is the case! Indeed I also would like to think that > >the numerous ex-monsanto employees now working for it's wholly-owned > >subsidiary the USDA have experienced similar changes of heart. > >Unfortunately, the statistics do not support this supposition. It is, > >alas, axiomatic that many of these revolving-door types end up back with > >their private sector sugar daddies after these periods of public > >'service,' typically with hefty pay raises. > > > >I shudder to think of the degraded state of our republic when such > >perverse and patently antidemocratic antics become statndard practice > >(moan, whine, snivel)! Antidemocratic, but probably well intentioned, I > >like to think. > > > >E. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 22 22:51:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04144 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 22:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA29572 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 22:22:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA29563 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 22:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.45]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:21:47 -0500 Message-ID: <199905222120070150.0411167A@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <002801bea4ba$7b3e37e0$8a9144c6@rain.org> References: <199905221850420810.03884819@acnet.net> <002801bea4ba$7b3e37e0$8a9144c6@rain.org> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:20:07 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Sal" , "Eric D Nash" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA29564 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1003 Hi Sal, >looks to me like they are in bed together. the >suckers don't have a chance to win when the deck is stacked. so whats new. >it is called politics as usual. . True. But it's also true that all of a sudden things change, when the time is right and a critical mass gives birth to a mass movement. Before TV exposed what the war was like in Vietnam, it was unpatriotic to be opposed to war. Why, I myself said from the start: I will support our president. Give us both guns and send us to the front and I will stand right behind him. Of course he never did go, and I was kind of busy myself. Monsanto will lose their biotech investmente and the stooges that have played footsie with them will be out of power. Just stick around (and plant more seedling trees). This stuff will all be broadcast. The focus is already there and the bedclothes are too dirty to come clean. The shirt will hit the fan and I don't mean shirt. This will happen, but will not solve our problems. We will have to do that ourselves. Know anything about phytohormone homolog producing soil micro-organisms? It seems to me that there has got to be a relationship between a healthy soil flora & fauna and an absence or reduction of soil pathogens & pathogenic activity. This is basic stuff, the kind of thing sustainable agriculture is founded on. But I need data for substantiating that, so I can get a project funded. It turns out the scisoc is by subscription and isn't cheap. From where I am, CABI would be a better bet. I've used CARL and Uncover for BioMed stuff, maybe they're good for this type of thing too. The Wallace Institute does this kind of research. Misha is good at this type of thing, but will she look into it after calling her a girl some time back? (It turns out that's not acceptable any more. See, times change Sal, like I told you). D H >What does NGO stand for. Non-governmental organism. They can either represent the public interest or a special interest group; i.e., be a front for a commercial interest. What does IMHO stand for? *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 22/05/99 at 6:20 PM Sal wrote: >I remember the 60 min. TV show where the man who got appertain to pass the >FDA regulations later became a big shot with the company (same company the >big Monsanto). it is a old game and they know how to play it . hummmm they >always win. . I also remember reading where when the same company was trying >to get the first GMO registered (the one that started all this and open the >flood gates with the GMO they inject in cows) with the USDA a few of the >USDA folks were former Monsanto company men. They seem to know when to send >there big guns in to the fight and stack the deck. . It seems to me they >exchange people quite often. looks to me like they are in bed together. the >suckers don't have a chance to win when the deck is stacked. so whets new. >it is called politics as usual. . So remember we are going up against a >stacked deck and usually the sucker never knows what hit them. so we public >comment and public comment and public comment till we are blue in the face >giving the USDA our best reasoning but its a joke. The whole idea is to >make us think it is a fair game and the public has a say but it is really a >BIG CON. IMHO it's a big con and these folks are the biggest con artists >the world has ever known. so when I hear that some USDA higher up just came >over from Monsanto I guess I feel here we go again. They are taking us for >another ride. What does NGO stand for. > > > >http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html >----- Original Message ----- >From: Douglas M. Hinds >To: Eric D Nash >Cc: >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 5:50 PM >Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) > > >> >> Guess you missed Lucy's post. Doesn't sound good. >> >> On 21/05/99 at 2:58 PM Lucy Miller wrote: >> >> >She has publicly stated that leaving Monsanto and joining the NET >> >required no change of heart. (See interview in the latest Ag >> >Examiner) >> > >> >>Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by >> >>what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the >> >>company? >> > >> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >> On 22/05/99 at 6:38 PM Eric D Nash wrote: >> >> >On Fri , 21 May 1999, Douglas M. Hinds wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Could it be that Patricia G. Kenworthy became agast and offended by >what she saw through her at Monsanto and has turned against the company? >> >> >> >> D H To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 00:14:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05178 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA12416 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12402 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00966; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905230344.UAA00966@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:42:42 -0700 Subject: FW: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1004 ---------- From: Plant Breeding News To: PBN-L@mailserv.fao.org Subject: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 Date: Sat, May 22, 1999, 2:38 AM ++4. ONTARIO CORN INDUSTRY TO MEET NEEDS OF CUSTOMERS FOR BIOTECHNOLOGY-MODIFIED CORN Agnet May 18, May 18, 1999 Ontario Corn Producers' Association At a key meeting held in London, Ontario today, chaired by Larry Cowan, director of the Ontario Corn Producers' Association (OCPA) for Middlesex County and chair of the Ontario Corn Industry Advisory Committee, representatives of OCPA, grain elevator operators and traders, and seed companies agreed that while biotechnology offers opportunities for major improvements in food quality, environmental integrity and global food production, it is also crucial that the needs of individual customers be met. This is especially critical for Ontario where about one-third of the total provincial corn crop is used in processing to produce myriad food products, many of which are sold in the European Union (EU) and other international markets. Of special importance are two corn milling companies, CASCO - with plants at London, Port Colborne and Cardinal, Ontario (also purchasing CORN for the Commercial Alcohols Inc. plant in Chatham) - and NACAN with a plant at Collingwood. To date other corn users, including King Milling in Chatham, have not stated a need to purchase only EU-approved corn, although this could change before the 1999 harvest begins in September. About 2 percent of the 1999 Ontario-planted corn crop contains biotechnology genes not yet approved for European sale. Those at the London meeting, including representatives of CASCO and NACAN, agreed that special steps are needed to ensure the percentage of EU-non-approved corn in grain delivered to these processors this fall be as low as possible, ideally well below 1.0% on average. These measures include separating country elevators into those which will accept all corn, and those accepting only EU-approved CORN. This elevator-designation process is ongoing, with a complete listing to be available before harvest begins. CASCO will not accept corn from elevator locations which receive EU-non-approved corn, beginning with the 1999 harvest. CASCO and NACAN have stated that similar requirements will apply to all imported corn. Farmers growing any EU-non-approved corn hybrids on their farms in 1999 and who have traditionally sold to CASCO, or who have any questions about delivery policies, are encouraged to contact the company directly. Farmers seeking alternative market opportunities for their corn should contact their local elevators and grain dealers, corn seed companies, OCPA, the Ontario Grain and Feed Association, or CASCO to obtain further assistance. The goal of industry participants is to ensure that all corn growers are able to market their 1999 corn crops at competitive prices. While industrial corn processors represent a large share of the Ontario corn market, alternative markets use about two-thirds of Ontario-grown corn. Despite precautions to be taken by corn growers, handlers and marketers to avoid the presence of EU-non-approved corn in shipments to CASCO and NACAN, there exists some potential for mixing, especially by cross-pollination with corn pollen from neighbouring fields. However, given the small acreage of EU-non-approved hybrids being grown in Ontario in 1999, other precautions to be used to reduce mixing, and the fact that corn from several sources is normally blended before milling, the result should be corn products at well below European tolerances. The current technology available for testing for presence of EU-non-approved genes is slow and expensive, a situation which may not improve substantially before the 1999 harvest begins. This will mean that testing will occur on a spot basis, only, this autumn. Rigid adherence to procedures to limit opportunities for mixing will be the best compliance measure. However, this situation is expected to change within a year or less as testing procedures improve and become less costly. The guidelines agreed upon at the May 18 meeting apply to 1999 season only. Participants agreed that in future years, new means must be implemented to ensure that the needs of individual customers are met, but which will also permit farmers to grow other types of CORN - including all Canadian-approved genetically enhanced corn - for other customers, and which will permit elevator locations to handle different types of identity-preserved corn, tailored to meet the purchase specifications of individual buyers. NACAN also processes waxy corn, which has a special type of starch used in some processed foods, including some marketed into the United Kingdom. Buyers there have stated a need to purchase waxy corn starch containing no biotechnology genes; this need extends to purchased corn. Waxy corn for NACAN is grown under contracts at premium prices, with these contracts stating specific procedures, including isolation requirements, to minimize contamination with regular "dent" corn pollen. These procedures should be sufficient to ensure compliance with NACAN's criteria. All representatives present at the May 18 meeting agreed that the goal is to adopt new and superior technology for improving crop quality and yield, and environmental integrity, while ensuring that the needs of customers are met. Decisions made at the May meeting represent a step in this direction. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 00:14:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05181 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:14:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA12368 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12360 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00925; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905230344.UAA00925@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:34:58 -0700 Subject: FW: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1005 ---------- From: Plant Breeding News To: PBN-L@mailserv.fao.org Subject: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 Date: Sat, May 22, 1999, 2:38 AM Genencor International, Inc., announced its plans to acquire an equity position in ProdiGene, Inc. to develop enzymes using transgenic plants. The equity investment combines Genencor's skills at developing enzymes and biochemicals with unique functionality and ProdiGene's skills in plant biotechnology. The two companies have worked together since 1997 to develop plants to make valuable proteins and performance materials for industrial applications. (May 10) The Bowditch Newsletter is free, gratis, libre, kostenlos! To subscribe visit the feedback page at our web site, fill in the information, and check the box. Question? Comments? Email us at info@BowditchGroup.com or visit http://www.bowditchgroup.com/index.html/feedback.htm. The Bowditch Group, Inc. Consulting to Agribusiness and the Food and Chemicals Industries 99 Bedford Street, Boston, Mass. 02111-2217 U.S.A. phone: +1 617-426-6161 fax: +1 617-426-6111 Bowditch@bowditchgroup.com http://www.bowditchgroup.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 00:14:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05190 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA12459 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12418 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00975; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905230344.UAA00975@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:43:42 -0700 Subject: FW: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA12419 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1006 ---------- From: Plant Breeding News To: PBN-L@mailserv.fao.org Subject: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 Date: Sat, May 22, 1999, 2:38 AM ++5. REVIEW OF DATA ON POSSIBLE TOXICITY OF GM POTATOES Agnet May 18, May 18, 1999 The Royal Society http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/st_pol54.htm The Royal Society published a review of what was known scientifically about the suitability of GM plants for food use in September 1998. Because of the current controversy, we are looking again at several issues, and in particular we have reviewed all available data related to work at the Rowett Research Institute on the possible toxicity of genetically modified POTATOES. Our main conclusions are as follows. .1. The safety of GM plants is an important and complex area of scientific research and demands rigorous standards. However, on the basis of the information available to us, it appears that the reported work from the Rowett is flawed in many aspects of design, execution and analysis and that no conclusions should be drawn from it. 2. We found no convincing evidence of adverse effects from GM potatoes. Where the data seemed to show slight differences between rats fed predominantly on GM and on non-GM potatoes, the differences were uninterpretable because of the technical limitations of the experiments and the incorrect use of statistical tests. 3. The work concerned one particular species of animal, when fed with one particular product modified by the insertion of one particular gene by one particular method. However skilfully the experiments were done, it would be unjustifiable to draw from them general conclusions about whether genetically modified foods are harmful to human beings or not. Each GM food must be assessed individually. 4. The whole episode underlines how important it is that research scientists should expose new research results to others able to offer informed criticism before releasing them into the public arena. 1 BACKGROUND In April 1999 the Royal Society convened a Working Group to examine whether newly publicised research required changes to our September 1998 statement GM plants for food use. This report deals with the apparent evidence that genetically modified potatoes adversely affected the health and growth of rats. The report has been endorsed by the Council of the Society, and was prepared by a group chaired by Professor Noreen Murray FRS, FRSE (University of Edinburgh). The other members were Professor Brian Heap FRS (Foreign Secretary and Vice-President of the Royal Society), Professor William Hill FRS, FRSE (University of Edinburgh), Dr Jim Smith FRS (National Institute for Medical Research), Professor Michael Waterfield FRS (Ludwig Institute for Cancer Research and University College London) and Dr Rebecca Bowden (Secretary). 2 METHODOLOGY We sought information from all possible sources about the work at the Rowett Research Institute and obtained the following: * Report of project coordinator, Arpad Pusztai FRSE, on data produced at the Rowett Research Institute (RRI), 22.10.98 * Audit of data produced at the Rowett Research Institute, 21.8.98, SOAEFD (Scottish Office Agriculture, Environment and Fisheries Department) flexible fund project RO818 * Response to request for clarification from the Rowett Research Institute * Response to request for information from Dr Susan Bardocz * Information provided by Advisory Committee on Novel Foods and Processes (including correspondence with Dr Stanley Ewen) * Statistical analysis carried out by Biomathematics and Statistics Scotland of experiments on genetically modified potatoes conducted at the Rowett Research Institute, 1.3.99 * Minutes of evidence - Science and Technology Committee of the House of Commons, 8.3.99 * Response to request for information from Dr Vyvyan Howard of Liverpool University * Response to request for information from Mr G Horgan of BIOSS * Response to request for information from Professor John Gatehouse of Durham University * Response to request for information from Professor Michael Wilson, Scottish Crop Research Institute * Information from SOAEFD on rationale for research Dr Pusztai indicated to us that further information existed, but did not provide it. We sent the available information to six independent, impartial reviewers whose expertise included statistics, clinical trials, physiology, nutrition, quantitative genetics, growth and development, and immunology. Their remit was to examine the data that we gave them and advise us, in the usual way of referees, about the scientific merit of the work described. They were not asked to give an opinion on the actions of any individuals involved in this work. This report is based on the responses from the six reviewers. The responses were copied to Dr Arpad Pusztai, who was given the opportunity to comment. In accordance with normal scientific practice, the reviewers remained anonymous. Dr Pusztai suggested to us that his reports were internal Institute documents and that it was therefore not appropriate to peer review them. However, since they were released into the public domain, both through the media and on the Internet, it seems to us entirely appropriate that they should also be subjected to expert scientific scrutiny - all the more so because of the importance of this area. We now examine two specific claims that have been made as a result of the Rowett work. 3 DID THE GM POTATOES TESTED HAVE A SPECIFIC EFFECT ON ORGAN DEVELOPMENT AND METABOLISM OF THE RATS? The experiments set out to investigate whether potatoes genetically modified to contain a lectin gene from a snowdrop affected the development of organs or the metabolism of the rats to which they were fed, in the short (10 days) or long (110 days) term. The structure of the experiments was changed as they progressed, which made comparisons between rats fed on modified potatoes and those fed on unmodified POTATOES more difficult. Some results showed differences in the overall body weights and in the weights of individual organs in the two groups of rats. However, such results as were statistically significant did not fall into a readily discernible pattern. A particular difficulty is that the experiments were not well designed. For example, there is very little information about how the GM and control diets differed in their detailed composition, and in particular about differences other than those attributable to the inserted gene. These differences should have been fully analysed, and addressed by using several distinct strains of GM potato in the feeding trials. Second, the GM potatoes used contained almost 20% less protein than unmodified potatoes. Therefore, in the long-term feeding study, rats being given GM potatoes were also given additional protein to meet Home Office requirements intended to avoid starvation: observed effects could have been caused by this supplementary diet being inadequate or incomplete. Third, when a rat is underfed many organs are likely to be affected, so that separate measurements on the same specimen will turn out to be interrelated. An added deficiency of the study was that, as far as we can tell, the measurements were not conducted 'blind' as is normal practice for trials of this kind (a protocol in which the scientists making the measurements are not aware of how the animals have been treated). Unconscious bias is well known to be a source of invalid results. Because of the poor experimental design, it is simply not possible to be sure about the causes of the small effects obtained in the study. 4 DID THE GM POTATOES TESTED HAVE A SPECIFIC EFFECT ON THE IMMUNE SYSTEM OF THE RATS? It had been claimed that the consumption of GM potatoes had significant effects on the immune system of rats in the feeding trials, because of some effect of the genetic modification itself rather than because of the particular gene inserted. Reviewers were asked to consider if this conclusion was valid. One of the immune reactions in the body can be mimicked in the laboratory. Antigen-reactive white blood cells (lymphocytes) are transformed into dividing lymphoblasts when they are stimulated by specific antigens. This provides a means of testing for effects on the immune system. The claim that the Rowett data show evidence that the inserted gene had a different immune effect from simply adding lectins to unmodified POTATOES does not stand up. Inappropriate statistical tests had been applied to the data and, when the appropriate comparisons are made , there are no interpretable differences. Moreover, the experimental data in this area are beset by the same sources of inconsistency noted in section 3 above. 5 CONCLUSIONS OF REVIEW OF DATA The work on feeding trials with GM and non-GM potatoes attempted to cover too much ground with the resources available. In the form currently available, the data reviewed provide no reliable or convincing evidence of adverse (or beneficial) effects, either of lectins added to unmodified potatoes or of potatoes genetically modified to contain a lectin gene, on the growth of rats or on their immunological function. In summary, the data presented to the reviewers and Working Group are inadequate for the following reasons: * poor experimental design, possibly exacerbated by lack of 'blind' measurements resulting in unintentionally biased results; * uncertainty about the differences in chemical composition between strains of non-GM and GM potatoes; * possible dietary differences due to non-systematic dietary enrichment to meet Home Office and other requirements; * the small sample numbers used in experiments testing several diets (all of which were non-standard diets for the animals used) and which resulted in multiple comparisons; * application of inappropriate statistical techniques in the analysis of results; lack of consistency of findings within and between experiments. The uncertainty and ambiguity of the data urge great caution in the interpretation of the results presented. A much improved experimental design, with stringent controls, would have been needed if the claims made for the study were to be convincing. Even if the results of the particular study had supported the claims that have been made for them, it would have been unwise to use them for making statements about the safety or otherwise of all GM foods. Although we have no evidence of harmful effects from genetic modification, this of course does not mean that harmful effects can be categorically ruled out. This issue can be resolved only by the necessary research carried out to a high standard and by full use of the regulatory mechanisms for dealing with safety of food. 6 FUTURE RESEARCH Reviewers were asked to give advice on the necessity of future research arising from the data presented. The only way to clarify the current situation would be to refine the experimental design of the research done to date and to use this as the basis for further studies in which clearly defined hypotheses were tested, focused on the specific differences already claimed. It would be necessary to carry out a large number of extremely complex tests on many different strains of GM and non-GM potatoes. It would be important to ensure that these studies had sufficient statistical power (in the sense that numbers in each experimental group were sufficient to deal with the variability in individual response) to come to a clear conclusion. It would also be important to take adequate account of the age and the susceptibility of the animals and the wholesomeness, completeness and adequacy of the entire diet. Careful thought would have to be given to the specific targets for any hypothesised damage. 7 RECOMMENDATIONS In view of the public interest in this case we recommend that the results of any future studies on testing GM food safety, when completed, should be peer reviewed and then published. This would provide an opportunity for the international scientific community and the public at large to have access to the information. The Royal Society has recommended in its September 1998 statement GM plants for food use that any over-arching body analyse the current regulations, giving particular consideration to whether long-term animal feeding studies are necessary to provide greater information on allergenicity or toxicity. We now reiterate this recommendation. ++6. UK DOCTORS REPORT ON OMEN -- GLICKMAN Agnet May 18, May 18/99 Reuters Washington U.S. Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman was cited as telling a a U.S. consumer group Tuesday that a new report by the British Medical Association that calls for a moratorium on the planting of genetically-modified crops could be a sign of things to come, calling the report "a little bit of an omen" and predicted a public debate over the "next five, 10, 15 or 20 years" on biotechnology. Glickman was further quoted as saying that although the United States has taken the lead in the approval of genetically-modified crops, it can't force those products "down consumers' throats. Dismissing the skepticism that's out there is not only arrogant, it's very bad business strategy," noting that biotechnology will only succeed if it has the confidence of consumers, and that, "My confidence in biotech, or industry's confidence in biotech, is ultimately irrelevant." Glickman added that there also has been concern that requiring the labeling of genetically-modified crops could open a "Pandora's box" of labeling, such as one that says "this item has been produced by a farm that treats its cows nicely. You could get to the point where every social engineer(ing) concept would be disclosed in the label" which, he said, would causes chaos in the food production system. Even so, Glickman acknowledged that the debate over such issues won't be driven by "pure science. If consumers don't buy the product, all the science in the world... is for naught." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 00:14:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05194 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA12396 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12388 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00955; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905230344.UAA00955@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:39:32 -0700 Subject: FW: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1007 ---------- From: Plant Breeding News To: PBN-L@mailserv.fao.org Subject: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 Date: Sat, May 22, 1999, 2:38 AM ++2. A NEW BREED OF PLANT THAT WON'T NEED AS MUCH LIGHT AS ITS CONVENTIONAL COUSINS IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION AT A GUELPH LAB. Agnet May 18, May 18, 1999 The Globe and Mail A1 Kim Honey Genetically modified plants are being developed for hothouse growers who spend a lot of money on artificial light during bleak Canadian winters. The story says there is no doubt that vegetables and flowers that grow in one-third the light available on a sunny spring day would be a boon for greenhouses, but the floriculture industry sees a market for people who like house plants. Irwin Smith, executive director of the Ontario branch of Flowers Canada, was quoted as saying, "When you put them in low light in your house, a lot of your potted plants just sort of wither away and die if they're in dark places. Well, these particular plants might be able to function more efficiently under those conditions." The genetic engineering is being done by plant biochemist Bernard Grodzinski at the Ontario Agricultural College in Guelph, Ont., a long-time centre of research into greenhouse-production technology. The work is being carried out on plants such as PEAS, LETTUCE, TOMATOES and CHRYSANTHEMUMS. But it has another application far removed from its terrestrial roots: growing plants in space. The story notes that any astronaut who embarks on a long-term mission into space will need an indoor garden to provide a healthy diet, pure water and clean air. And that vegetable patch may have to be built underground; cosmic radiation on the moon would be lethal to humans, and dust storms on Mars might obscure what little solar radiation it receives 228 million kilometres from the sun. Dr. Grodzinski, co-director of the Space and Advanced Life-Support Agriculture project at the university was cited as saying that a subterranean growing chamber will require artificial light, but providing the full range of solar radiation in space is technically difficult. Scientists have already used conventional plant-breeding techniques in their quest for a vegetable that can grow in low light. For example, they've created a PEA plant that has masses of tendrils rather than leaves, increasing the surface area available for photosynthesis and allowing more light through. With the advent of modern genetics, researchers are now able to go into the plant's DNA and modify its photosynthetic machinery to make it more efficient in low light. They can also change the shape of its leaves. Dr. Grodzinski was quoted as saying, "The question is . . . can we modify the biochemistry of the leaves so we don't have the engineering constraint of having to mimic the sun everywhere we are?" The biochemist is testing an array of 100 different genes in an effort to pinpoint which ones control photosynthesis, the conversion of solar energy into chemical energy. One gene Dr. Grodzinski is investigating has been nicknamed "the green gene" by the scientists who discovered it at Queen's University in Kingston. Daniel Lefebvre, vice-president of research and development at Performance Plant Inc., a biotechnology company set up on campus was quoted as saying, "We're not sure how novel it is, but it's a chlorophyll-binding protein," adding that leaves already contain the protein, but scientists think that when they put more into a plant's DNA, it creates more chlorophyll, the catalyst for the chemical reaction that produces nourishment for the plant. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 00:14:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05196 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA12386 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12378 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00938; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905230344.UAA00938@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:37:13 -0700 Subject: FW: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1008 ---------- From: Plant Breeding News To: PBN-L@mailserv.fao.org Subject: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 Date: Sat, May 22, 1999, 2:38 AM ++3. INTERNATIONAL RICE GENETICS AND BREEDING SYMPOSIUM Rice genetics and breeding towards the 21 century October 16-18, 1999, Hangzhou, China ORGANIZED BY: China Association of Agricultural Science Societies, China National Rice Research Institute, China National Hybrid Rice Research and Development Center, China Agricultural Science, Technology and Education Foundation CO-ORGANIZED BY: International Rice Research Institute, Department of Science and Education, Ministry of Agriculture, P.R.C INVITATION: DEAR COLLEAGUES: We are proud to invite you to attend the International Rice Genetics and Breeding Symposium which will be held on 16-18 October, 1999 in Hangzhou, China, one of most popular tourist destination in the world. Hangzhou is a very beautiful city. As a part of the city, the West Lake is attractive for tourists by its scenery and by the stories with a rich cultural and historical background. October is a golden season. Rice in central China is coming to be harvested. It is when and where we gather together to discuss rice science. In the meeting, we will discuss RICE genetics and breeding, particular in "super rice". The activities include plenary sessions, oral presentations, poster sessions, and visiting for showing research progress, exchanging scientific information, and strengthening international collaboration in rice. Please join us and meet your colleagues and friends in China. Next century is coming. Let us to fill more rice in the bowl of the world. YUAN LONGPING. Chairman Organizing Committee, International Rice Genetics and Breeding Symposium THEME: Rice genetics and breeding towards the 21 century. TIME: Registration: October 14-15, 1999 Meeting: October 16-18, 1999 VENUE: Zhejiang University. Huajiachi, Hangzhou, 310029. China ORGANIZER OFFICE: Mr. Liu Rongzhi, CAASS #20, Maizidian Chaoyang,100026 Beijing China Tel: (010) 64194487, 64194497 Fax: (010) 64194484, 64194487, 64194491 E-mail: bao@cav.net.cn OFFICE AT THE SYMPOSIUM VENUE Ms. Chen Lihua Zhejiang University Huajiachi Hangzhou, 310029 China Tel: (0571) 6971280 Fax: (0571) 6049815, 6971278 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 00:14:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA05183 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA12340 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12334 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 23:43:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00909; Sat, 22 May 1999 20:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905230343.UAA00909@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 20:31:42 -0700 Subject: FW: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA12337 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1009 ---------- From: Plant Breeding News To: PBN-L@mailserv.fao.org Subject: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 Date: Sat, May 22, 1999, 2:38 AM Brazil officially ended its ban on the commercial planting of genetically modified crops by approving the sale of Roundup Ready soybean seeds produced by the local arm of U.S. life sciences giant Monsanto Company, a spokesman at the Agriculture Ministry said. "Starting today (Monday) they can produce and sell five varieties of Roundup Ready seeds," said spokesman Tito Matos de Souza. Roundup Ready still faces opposition from an association of farmers in Brazil's top three producing states, who fear they will lose business to transgenic weary-European consumers. Brazil's third-largest producing state of Rio Grande do Sul is attempting to make in-state planting of Roundup Ready seeds illegal, in defiance of the federal decision. Top producing Parana and Mato Grosso states are working on ways to certify some farming cooperatives as ``transgenic-free. (May 17) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 01:04:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05539 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 01:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA08888 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:27:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA08812 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 00:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (modem-pool-96.rain.org [198.68.145.96]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 532246177A; Sat, 22 May 1999 21:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000201bea4d3$4872f260$609144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Douglas M. Hinds" , "Eric D Nash" Cc: References: <199905221850420810.03884819@acnet.net><002801bea4ba$7b3e37e0$8a9144c6@rain.org> <199905222120070150.0411167A@acnet.net> Subject: Re: Monsanto Regulatory Affairs Director Now an NGO (fwd) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:13:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1010 .. What does IMHO stand for? .I my humble opinion To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 03:30:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA08011 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 03:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA09480 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 02:56:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA09246 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 02:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.90]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 02:00:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3747A68C.99C3513A@cillnet.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 01:56:12 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: [Fwd: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3291E06FED1639CF75696195" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1011 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3291E06FED1639CF75696195 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are always talking about black and white which one is right. Does any one think maybe gray is the right answer? Steve mentioned that the moldboard plow has done a lot of damage, but is our only alternative No-Till? Could a shallow disking do the job? Just curious! Floyd --------------3291E06FED1639CF75696195 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu ([152.1.45.61]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 21:53:13 -0500 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA29699 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:16:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA29598 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp171.epix.net [205.238.243.171]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id WAA00427; Thu, 20 May 1999 22:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3744C3CF.7000DCB1@epix.net> Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:24:16 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Elazar CC: Roberto Verzola , lonrom@hevanet.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution) References: <99May20.092951cdt.26907@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Pat Elazar wrote: > > Who have you seen or heard campaigning against tillage? Of course companies who manufacture herbicides will promote them to no till farmers, but as you see below, long term no till will reduce the need for herbicides. It certainly has on my farm. If you talk with any soil scientist, he will tell you that most tillage has a detrimental effect on the soil. Tilling the soil might benefit the farmer in some way, but not the soil and the critters who live in it. > the no-till/low-till guys who'd been doing it for a while generally used less > chemical than anybody else. If they survived the first couple of years, they > learned how to walk their fields, map their fields & widen rotations to reduce > weed problems systemically. The no-till guys also used half-rates, one third > rates & spot applications when they did spray. They also chose more competitive > varieties & tinkered combine settings to maximize crop residue (we usually call > that mulch on this list). After 10 years of no-till, they usually had more > organic matter, less weeds, less disease problems than their neighbours & maybe > even a few worms! > > have > Alot of farmers (especially the conventional) are aware of this and are doing something about it now. I've found the detrimantal effects of tillage to be an issue that a good many sustainable farmers ignore. The moldbord plow has caused significant damage to the quality of soil. Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------3291E06FED1639CF75696195-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 07:46:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA09403 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 07:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA12860 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 07:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moose.uvm.edu (moose.uvm.edu [132.198.101.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA12856 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 07:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elk.uvm.edu (elk.uvm.edu [132.198.101.63]) by moose.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA164640; Sun, 23 May 1999 07:10:01 -0400 Received: from localhost (fmagdoff@localhost) by elk.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA44090; Sun, 23 May 1999 07:10:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: elk.uvm.edu: fmagdoff owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:10:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Frederick R. Magdoff" X-Sender: fmagdoff@elk.uvm.edu To: Floyd Johnson cc: sanet-mg Subject: Re: [Fwd: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution)] In-Reply-To: <3747A68C.99C3513A@cillnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1012 Floyd, There are other types of reduced tillage systems--including "zone till" (where only part of the soil is disturbed, compared to the full-field tillage with the moldboard plow) and ridge-till. Also, with a good modern planter, the surface soil does not have to be as beat-up, with such destruction of soil aggregates, in order to get good soil-seed contact. FRED ******************************************************************************* Fred Magdoff Northeast Region SARE Program Hills Building University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405 tel:802-656-0472 fax:802-656-4656 ****************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 11:47:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11437 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 11:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16913 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:42:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16860 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11616 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 10:45:05 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Sun, 23 May 1999 09:39:14 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.140] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 09293b3c ; Sun, 23 May 1999 09:38:58 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990523093936.007f2800@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 09:39:36 -0500 To: From: Mike Miller Subject: Re: FW: EDITION 100 May 22, 1999 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1013 At 23:01 22-05-99 -0600, you wrote: snip >++5. REVIEW OF DATA ON POSSIBLE TOXICITY OF GM POTATOES Agnet May 18, May Big snip Second, the GM >potatoes used contained almost 20% less protein than unmodified potatoes. This is very interesting but does anybody know why? I have heard that Roundup Ready Soybean have lower yields and that they might be more suspectable to disease problems. Is that a matter of using scarce plant resources for other purposes like making Bt protein? But would not the Bt protein showup in the protein tests? On another front, 20 % less protein is a big problem for those whose diet is already protein deficient diets. Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 16:00:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA14162 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 16:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03381 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 15:19:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA03371 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 15:19:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Janekelly1@aol.com Received: from Janekelly1@aol.com (8053) by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7FWFa02629 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 15:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c8d7d60.2479aea6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 15:19:02 EDT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1042 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1014 Dear Sustainable Agriculture folks: The Union of Concerned Scientists and the Ecological Society of America are finishing up a major new report on the impacts of global warming and climate change on California. There will be a section on the impacts to agricultural ecosystems. The report is due out in the fall of 1999. I am developing a list of all the outlets that should be notified of the report, including online resources, newletters, magazines, as well as those in more traditional hard copy format. I would welcome your suggestions as to outlets that should be included so that the report gets into the hands of as many folks as possible. Please include as much contact information about the oulet as possible and why you think its audience should hear about the report. A notice of the report will appear in sanet-mg this fall. Thanking you in advance--(please send info directly to me so that it need not clutter up this digest.) Jane Kelly 1317 McGee Avenue Berkeley, CA 94703-1005 510-525-4178 510-525-5750 (fax) Janekelly1@aol.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 20:30:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17248 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA08161 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 19:51:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08062 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 19:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id LAA28446 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:40:15 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz() by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:30:22 +1200 Message-ID: <0b52309f40f4@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz () To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:01:41 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Europe Halts Genetic Corn Trade X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1015 Europe Halts Genetic Corn Trade Wired News Report 12:00 p.m. 20.May.99.PDT The European Commission on Thursday halted the approval process for US-produced, genetically altered corn because the plant's pollen could threaten Monarch butterflies. The policy freeze comes at a time when trade relations between Europe and the United States have already suffered setbacks. A conflict is also brewing over Europe's ban on US beef produced with hormones. The study, by researchers at Cornell University, was published in this week's Nature magazine. Scientists found that leaves dusted with pollen from genetically modified "Bt maize," developed by American company Pioneer Hi-Bred International, have been proven lethal to Monarch butterflies. The Commission further cautioned that similar products being used in Europe, such as those produced by Monsanto and Novartis, could also be in jeopardy. "There's no way any new products can be approved where this information might have ... any bearing on that approval process," said Peter Jorgensen, spokesman for acting EU Environment Commissioner Ritt Bjerregaard. However, Jorgensen said that the Commission would not take a final policy stance until its own scientists had combed through the new research. Until then, the Commission would not ask EU environment ministers, who are set to meet next month, to decide whether to approve the Pioneer maize. American biotech companies have complained that European distrust of the emerging agricultural technology will cost them millions of dollars. Scientists spliced genes from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis into the plant genes, making the corn plant resistant to a European borer pest while keeping the corn safe for human consumption. According to the study, US farmers planted more than 7 million acres of the hybrid crop last year, primarily to control the European corn borer. Monsanto representative Tom McDermott said that the study should be considered within the context. "One study can't be treated as proof. We need to consider how the findings compare with other evidence and how the Bt technology compares with other means of controlling the same pest." Pioneer, which is in the midst of being purchased by Dupont, was not available for comment. Reuters contributed to this story. Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 20:59:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17533 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:59:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA25841 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:19:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA25825 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:19:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d53-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.53]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA04019; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:18:50 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Lon J. Rombough" , "SANET" , "AGRISYNERGY" , Subject: RE: Possible Changes in Pigs Body Composition ?? Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:31:44 +1000 Message-ID: <000101bea57c$ccabee20$353325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199905211537.IAA06213@hevanet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1016 This story [quoted again below] contains some depressing simplifications. The idea that a hypothyroid pig or a pig with Addisons disease (low cortisol) would produce sound food seems flawed. There are some basic errors at work, however, in the endocrinology, in my view. Any person or pig taking thyroxin [T4] will experience a shrinking of the thyroid gland and a loss of endogenous thyroid performance, as the system senses the extra availability of T4 and cuts down. So the observation reported that more T4 means more fat storage, that thyroid hormone stores fat, is just wrong, and an undergraduate biochemistry text should make that clear. The thyroid in humans and pigs and others is a major contributor to whole body and mind health, with critical contributions to cellular functions of respiration and steroidogenesis. Thyroxin [T4] is not the active thyroid hormone, however - the active one is triiodothyronine, T3. And elevated hydrocortisone and other stressors may cause the body to produce (from T4) not T3 but reverse-T3, also a thyroid inhibitor. T3 is required for the conversion of choleSTERol to STERoid hormones. There is a requirement for cholesterol - good, saturated fats, rather than the oil seeds preferred in some pig raising; also required is vitamins and sunshine, the latter to keep happy and numerous the mitochondria that do the work in the cells. The product of this conversion of cholesterol is pregnenolone, the precursor of progesterone and DHEA, without which nervous, reproductive or immune systems are compromised. (The fact that pork these days is loaded with unsaturated rather than saturated fats, because of the diets of pig raising, also is disruptive of this pathway, but that's another subject) Administering lots of hydrocortisone to the pig would also have a damaging shock effect, raising estrogen levels, disrupting mitochondrial function and causing fluid retention in cells. The old 'sell water, not fat' approach to the meat market. T3 is also essential to the mitochondrial respiratory process in the cell, especially in stabilising sugar management. That is, for sugars and oxygen to be converted to CO2 and ATP (for energy and protein construction) there is, again, a need for sound thyroid performance. Many different factors can contribute to very basic simple biological derangement, giving rise in turn to a diversity of symptoms and disorders. Whacking the thyroids and the adrenals in the hope of getting a skinny pig seems to me particularly likely to succeed in a disturbing way. Producing pigs with disturbed endocrine systems, making them (perhaps randomly, certainly with great individual differences) vulnerable to a range of physiological and psychological disorders, from chronic fatigue to eating disorders, to psychiatric disorders, to cancer, to cardiovascular problems seems weird indeed. And all because of an obsession with dietary fat, which a human thyroid, properly healthy in a person with enough exercise and balanced diet would competently manage. Whereas who knows what consequences from eating tissues of deliberately endocrine deranged pig. If a flat worm, eating a flatworm that has learned a maze can itself run the maze, what hope the research scientist who is the test eater of ham whose tissues are still too young to show that it would have become an endocrine deranged, manic-depressive, anorexic pig with fibrocystic breasts? But leave aside my speculations of the last paragraph, just dwell on the muddled science of the expectations of the addition of T4 and hydrocortisone, and the speculations associated with that. Dennis Argall -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Lon J. Rombough Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 1:38 AM To: SANET; AGRISYNERGY Subject: FW: Possible Changes in Pigs Body Composition ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Possible Changes in Pigs Body Composition Date: Fri, May 21, 1999, 6:52 AM STORY LEAD: Researchers Explore Possible Changes in Body Composition of Future Pigs ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 21, 1999 Jill Lee, (301) 504-1627, jlee@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Two natural animal hormones are critical to developing fat cells in fetal pigs. One increases the number of fat cells; the other makes fat cells bigger. They work best together, say researchers--and knowing this may someday make leaner pork possible. The scientists, with the Agricultural Research Service, found these hormones of the thyroid and adrenal glands work in tandem to give fetal pigs the sustaining layers of fat they will need after birth. The thyroid hormone increases fat cell numbers; the adrenal one increases their size. Together they allow for a greater increase in fat than either hormone alone, according to the lead researcher, animal physiologist Gary J. Hausman. He's at the Animal Physiology Research Unit of ARS' Richard B. Russell Agricultural Research Center in Athens, Ga. Hausman and colleagues studied the role of these hormones by treating fetal pigs with thyroxine (a thyroid hormone) or hydrocortisone (an adrenal hormone) at various stages of gestation. Other fetal pigs received both hormones. Results showed the hormone combination caused more fat deposition than either hormone alone. The study results suggest the potential for an opportunity for producing leaner pork by reducing levels of one of the hormones in a fetal pig or piglet. The scientists reason that since the hormones' combined activity accelerates fat gains, restricting their "partnership"--by limiting one of the hormones--might reduce the fat gains. This might be done by breeding or through treatments as the piglet grows. By understanding the biology of fat hormones, the researchers hope to learn more about reducing fat in pork. This information could also be useful to medical researchers seeking to understand factors contributing to obesity in humans. ARS is the chief scientific agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ---------- Scientific contact: Gary Hausman, ARS Richard B. Russell Agricultural Research Center, Athens, Ga., phone (706) 546-3584, fax (706) 546-3586, ghausman@ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 21:08:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA17632 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA29818 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:29:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (greensoft.com [204.77.123.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA29752 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 20:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905240029.UAA29752@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.107] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AD359150512; Sun, 23 May 1999 19:28:37 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 00:28:10 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Europe Halts Genetic Corn Trade Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1017 On Mon, 24 May 1999 11:01:41 +1200, wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz wrote: >Monsanto representative Tom McDermott said that the study should >be considered within the context. "One study can't >be treated as proof. We need to consider how the findings compare >with other evidence and how the Bt technology >compares with other means of controlling the same pest." With each passing week, the similarities between big bio-tech and big tobacco become more striking. McDermott's reasoning (I use that term with some reservations in this case) is nearly identical to that used by tobacco shills in the '60s, '70s, and '80s as the research piled up against them. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 23:22:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA19971 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA12209 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 22:31:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA12082 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 22:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.50]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sun, 23 May 1999 21:30:24 -0500 Message-ID: <199905232128580990.093FC32B@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <199905240029.UAA29752@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> References: <199905240029.UAA29752@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:28:58 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Bart Hall" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Europe Halts Genetic Corn Trade Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA12098 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1018 >With each passing week, the similarities between big bio-tech and big >tobacco become more striking. Big tobacco is finally doomed. Let's hope the process can be accellerated for those investing big in recombinants. (Big bio-tech, big hurry, big disregard for bigger evolutionary processes and above all, a big appetite for big bucks). Control freaks, foisting freaks on the unthinking, while freaking out the thinking so much they'll be afraid to think. (Gee, that just about sums it up, doesn't it). DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 24/05/99 at 12:28 AM Bluestem Associates wrote: >On Mon, 24 May 1999 11:01:41 +1200, wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz wrote: > >>Monsanto representative Tom McDermott said that the study should >>be considered within the context. "One study can't >>be treated as proof. We need to consider how the findings compare >>with other evidence and how the Bt technology >>compares with other means of controlling the same pest." > >With each passing week, the similarities between big bio-tech and big >tobacco become more striking. McDermott's reasoning (I use that term >with some reservations in this case) is nearly identical to that used >by tobacco shills in the '60s, '70s, and '80s as the research piled up >against them. > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 23 23:48:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA20350 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA08540 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:15:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08525 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-47ppp34.epix.net [209.74.47.34]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999032301/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id XAA07061; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3748C5AA.6265014C@epix.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:21:15 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fjohnson@cillnet.com CC: sanet-mg Subject: Re: [Fwd: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution)] References: <3747A68C.99C3513A@cillnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1019 Floyd Johnson wrote: > We are always talking about black and white which one is right. Does any > one think maybe gray is the right answer? Steve mentioned that the > moldboard plow has done a lot of damage, but is our only alternative > No-Till? Could a shallow disking do the job? Just curious! Floyd, Glad you asked for this clarification. Anything less than a moldboard plow is a step in the right direction. Adding to what Fred Magdoff said, we have quite an array of tillage tools now that do a specific job when it comes to tillage. You as a farmer need to be creative with the machinery at your disposal and the cropping system you are working with. Shallow disking certainly is better than plowing, but there might be times when deep narrow tillage (zone till) is more appropriate. To me, the key is leaving as much residue on the surface as you can. Think of tillage in the same way you think of using chemicals. Why am I using it? Is there a more natural way? Do the benefits outweigh the disadvantages? What long term affects (good or bad) am I creating? Why do you need to till in the first place? I really like your questions Floyd. To me it's the same as saying, "We are always talking about black and white which one is right. Does any one think maybe gray is the right answer? Chemicals have done a lot of damage, but is our only alternative Organics? Could sustainable agriculture do the job? Just curious! Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Rd Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 00:12:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA20617 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA19491 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:34:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA19487 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA18189 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EBCT3JX2; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:34:18 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:21:42 -0700 Subject: planting peanuts Message-ID: <19990523.202142.3486.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9,11-12 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1020 Is there a peanut farmer out there who can tell me how to plant peanuts? A doctor once told me commercially available peanuts are contaminated with mold. He predicted that I could tolerate peanuts if I grew, processed, and properly stored my own. As I browsed the seed catalogs this spring, I saw a chance to test his prediction and ordered a quarter pound of Spanish Type Peanuts. They arrived still in the shells with no hint as to whether or not I should shell them before planting. There are 2 or 3 seeds per pod, so they will come up much thicker if I leave them in the pod. The catalog says to plant them 1 to 2 inches deep and 6" apart. Can anyone out there elaborate for me? Also, I would appreciate any hints on how to properly harvest and store peanuts. --Regards, Edna Weigel ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 00:28:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA20759 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA27715 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:46:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA27665 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.76]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Sun, 23 May 1999 22:51:00 -0500 Message-ID: <3748C52E.FB9C5B95@cillnet.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 22:19:10 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bargyla Rateaver CC: sanet-mg Subject: More info please References: <199905201008.GAA10502@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37462EAB.CA20DF8A@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1021 Tell me more about the Organic Primer Update. I know several people trying to figure out organic's. If we knew about it we would probably read it. Floyd To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 01:50:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA21321 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 01:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA02366 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:48:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA02350 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 00:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-9-39.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.135]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA04765; Sun, 23 May 1999 23:48:42 -0500 Message-ID: <001301bea5a1$44615620$875f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: , "sanet-mg" Subject: Re: [Fwd: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution)] Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:52:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1022 Floyd, Not to beat a dead horse but if we look at our desired end result instead of starting at the beginning maybe agriculture would come up with different production systems. Lets start at the grocery store instead of the farm. I don't eat very many corn and soybeans. Most of it goes into animal production. I'm sure somebody has the percentages but its astronomical. Then we should start asking ourselves, why do we grow corn and soybeans, with all the tillage, chemicals, fuel, capital intensive structure, etc, etc, etc when we could be raising managed pasture without the tillage, chemicals, fuel, capital intensive structure, you get the picture? I think we have to get past the corn, soybean, and green paint mentality in the US if we really want to talk about sustainable agriculture. I think its great to discuss the benefits of organic and sustainable vegetable production. That has to be an intregal part of a sustainable agriculture system. But should there really be any question on the need of management intensive grazing as the cornerstone of sustainable livestock production? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free range hog farmer PS Raising swine that act like ruminants on managed pasture and proud of it! Let's hope they don't shut me out of the conventional market because I still have colored and endangered breeds of pigs. (They claim they have to skin all the colored pigs and they "skin" me on yeild on them!) I've finally got some sows around here that will consistently have litters of pigs with no gestation feed other than pasture and a mineral feeder. Just to agitate, it kind of shoots holes in Dennis Avery's theory of confinement pigs will save the rain forest because of increased feed efficiency. But hey, isn't this board about unscientific attempts to ruin the agribusiness industry. Couldn't resist that one. *grin* I don't have a job that relys on towing the corporate line. Ain't it fun to not be a slave to the system? Well thats enough of being on the lunatic fringe for one day. Hope I didn't offend too many. Political correctness isn't getting us too far. The farms are disapearing. Me and one other are going to be the last of the independant hog farmers on my side of the county. The guy at the buying station estimates 60% loss of hog farmers in our area from the latest crash. The push for an industrial agriculture is grand! Take out the hogs and the milk cows and my rural community is history. I'm afraid we are down to the last generation of family farms unless something changes. I'm not sure the sustainable agriculture movement started soon enough. On a happier note, My wife and I and a few others in our sustainable ag group start at the new Green City farmers market in Chicago next month. It was started at the request of the chef collaborative in Chicago. Its going to be all organic and natural foods. Anybody else going? -----Original Message----- From: Floyd Johnson To: sanet-mg Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 2:18 AM Subject: [Fwd: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution)] >We are always talking about black and white which one is right. Does any >one think maybe gray is the right answer? Steve mentioned that the >moldboard plow has done a lot of damage, but is our only alternative >No-Till? Could a shallow disking do the job? Just curious! > Floyd To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 10:09:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25875 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA02154 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:15:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from adam.eoni.com (adam.eoni.com [192.216.239.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02149 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rene- (lgdppp148 [192.216.239.148]) by adam.eoni.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA05985; Mon, 24 May 1999 06:15:09 -0700 Message-ID: <374950DB.427B@eoni.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 06:15:07 -0700 From: "Rene'" Reply-To: renew@eoni.com Organization: TideLines X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fjohnson@cillnet.com CC: Bargyla Rateaver , sanet-mg Subject: Re: More info please References: <199905201008.GAA10502@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37462EAB.CA20DF8A@earthlink.net> <3748C52E.FB9C5B95@cillnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1023 Floyd: If you get some info on that primer, send it my way! Rene' To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 10:24:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26237 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA12012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moose.uvm.edu (moose.uvm.edu [132.198.101.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11998 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:30:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elk.uvm.edu (elk.uvm.edu [132.198.101.63]) by moose.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA234294; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:30:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (gharris@localhost) by elk.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA48362; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:30:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: elk.uvm.edu: gharris owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:30:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gwyneth E. Harris" X-Sender: gharris@elk.uvm.edu To: Bargyla Rateaver cc: Dan Anderson , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1036 In-Reply-To: <3746315F.7C50FA90@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1024 Bargyla, I agree that Avery is misinformed and misdirected, but he is also well known and even (yikes) respected by people in this country of ours, and so i think that it behooves us to discuss, refute, analyze and disect what he says. Sometime soon we may be called upon to talk about these issues, and I for one don't have all the answers--anything another person has to offer is good for me. And in addition, I think that it is respectful at the least, and even imperative, to civil society to allow for the airing of all opinions, no matter how distasteful they are to our own sensibilities. For example, I don't believe in your "Creator" reclaiming "Eden", but I believe in not "dismissing such talk without a second thought". -Gwyneth Harris Burlington, VT *************************************************************************** On Fri, 21 May 1999, Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > Why does everybody keep quoting that Avery? I figured the very first time I encountered his silly talk, that he is completely dominated by Satan. When the Creator restores Eden, pretty soon, such people will have been wiped out by the Creator, and no one there will ever need to worry about anything for soil---nothing like that needed in a perfect world. > Of course, most people would dismiss such talk without a second's thought. > =================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 10:25:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26248 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11349 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:27:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11234 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.51] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:26:50 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:28:47 -0400 Subject: Chicken Tractor Free Range course June 18-20 From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3010382927_175843_MIME_Part" Message-ID: <19990524132650000.AAA271@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.51]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1025 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3010382927_175843_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Good Earth Farm and School, Buena Vista, Virginia announces the upcoming Chicken Tractor and Free Range Poultry Workshop for June 18, 19, and 20. Participants will learn breeder flocks, incubating or buying chicks and poults, brooding, grow out, processing using manual and semi-automatic equipment and techniques, and marketing through farm shop and to restaurants and health food stores. Building free range shelters and paddocks, rotational grazing with livestock, chicken tractors in market gardens, rations that optimize growth, building a processing facility and commercial kitchen, identifying and accessing markets, overview of USDA and state regulations for production, processing and marketing. Class size is kept small and highly participatory with plenty of hands on learning. During the course we help you develop your pastured poultry project, including business plan, budget, marketing strategy and a realistic action chart. Good Earth Farm raises broiler, layer and turkey breeders, 2000 broilers, 600 layers, and 500 turkeys per year, for sale through the farm shop and to local restaurants. We also grow bush hogs, grass fed beef, meat goats, pheasants and quail and 3 market gardens. We are building a USDA inspected poultry processing facility, and developing a regional producers' cooperative. Instructors are Andy Lee and Patricia Foreman, owners of Good Earth Farm and authors of CHICKEN TRACTOR and BACKYARD MARKET GARDENING, Anne Fanatico, ATTRA Project Specialist, and Steve Muntz, Project Director, Heifer Project International, and Keith Perron, poultry processing equipment specialist, Brower Equipment Company. Tuition of $285 includes lunches, snacks, course materials and the Chicken Tractor book. For more information contact Andy Lee, Director, Good Earth Farm School, 1702 Mountain View Road, Buena Vista, Virginia 24416, phone and fax 540-261-8775, email: goodearth@rockbridge.net. --MS_Mac_OE_3010382927_175843_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Chicken Tractor Free Range course June 18-20 Good Earth Farm and School, Buena Vista, Virginia announces the upcomin= g
    Chicken Tractor and Free Range Poultry Workshop for June 18, 19, and 20. Participants will learn breeder flocks, incubating or buying chicks and
    poults, brooding, grow out, processing using manual and semi-automatic
    equipment and techniques, and marketing through farm shop and to restaurant= s
    and health food stores. Building free range shelters and paddocks,
    rotational grazing with livestock, chicken tractors in market gardens,
    rations that optimize growth, building a processing facility and commercial=
    kitchen, identifying and accessing markets, overview of USDA and state
    regulations for production, processing and marketing.

    Class size is kept small and highly participatory with plenty of hands on learning. During the course we help you develop your pastured poultry
    project, including business plan, budget, marketing strategy and a realisti= c
    action chart.

    Good Earth Farm raises broiler, layer and turkey breeders, 2000 broilers, 600 layers, and 500 turkeys per year, for sale through the farm shop and to=
    local restaurants. We also grow bush hogs, grass fed beef, meat goats,
    pheasants and quail and 3 market gardens. We are building a USDA inspected<= BR> poultry processing facility, and developing a regional producers'
    cooperative.

    Instructors are Andy Lee and Patricia Foreman, owners of Good Earth Farm an= d
    authors of CHICKEN TRACTOR and BACKYARD MARKET GARDENING, Anne Fanatico, ATTRA Project Specialist, and Steve Muntz, Project Director, Heifer Project=
    International, and Keith Perron, poultry processing equipment specialist, Brower Equipment Company.

    Tuition of $285 includes lunches, snacks, course materials and the Chicken<= BR> Tractor book. For more information contact Andy Lee, Director, Good Earth Farm School, 1702 Mountain View Road, Buena Vista, Virginia 24416, phone an= d
    fax 540-261-8775, email: goodearth@rockbridge.net.

    --MS_Mac_OE_3010382927_175843_MIME_Part-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 10:29:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA26355 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14855 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:37:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14789 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 09:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-9-40.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.136]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA15321; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:37:51 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01bea5eb$3080d640$885f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: Subject: Re: Time to Learn How(Grass farming) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:41:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1026 I received a few emails asking about information on raising animals on pasture. Here is my suggestions if you are interested in grass farming or management intensive grazing, I would recommend ATTRA, The Leopold Center, The Stockman Grass Farmer Magazine, Small Farm Today Magazine, www.grassfarmer.com, graze-l and graze-r listserves, and SARE. All of these have web sites besides the Stockman Grass Farmer. I would suspect that Ann Clark and others have good sources of information for beginning grass farmers. There is a very distinct learning curve to raising animals sucessfully on pasture. Those that can not put a whole system of genetics, nutrition, forage species, fencing, water, marketing, etc will not suceed. Also, I think it takes a completely different mindset that the "average" american farmer. I'm also convince by pure definition it requires low input including low debt (relatively speaking) to make it work. To make pasture work and work well we have to be able to give up most of the equipment that rusts, rots, and depreciated. Best of luck, Greg Gunthorp To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 12:10:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29111 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA07652 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:11:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07609 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:11:46 -0400 (EDT) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07996 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com (301) by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id qPKBa02577; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:11:02 EDT Subject: First International CSA To: dmhinds@acnet.net, sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1027 Sounds wonderful, tell me more - what's involved at our end? Must we contract for a ton a week, or what? Betty Ann Gras petersfarm@aol.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 12:14:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29231 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08204 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:13:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08184 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA18287 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA10276; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:14:15 -0700 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:14:30 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: new release of Calif. pesticide use data Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1028 Below is a press release fromt he Calif. Dept. of Pesticide Regulation concerning the avilability of pesticide use information for 1996. (Use data for 1997 is due for release in June, and 1998 data in August.) I have not included the tables that are a part of the release. You can find them at. If you would l ike further information, please telephone the number given at the bottom of the press release or email info@empm.cdpr.ca.gov. Media contact: Veda Federighi (916) 445-3974 or Glenn Brank (916) 445-3970 ******************************* Kathy Brunetti, Agriculture Program Supervisor California Department of Pesticide Regulation ******************************* ArialMay 24, 1999 (99-14) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DPR Posts Pesticide Use Data On Web SACRAMENTO -- Cal/EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation has posted statewide summaries of pesticide use in 1996 -- categorized by chemicals and crops -- on its Web site <. DPR deferred release of the 1996 pesticide use data while developing error-checking software. (Use data for 1997 is due for release in June, and 1998 data in August.) With corrected data on pesticide applications, DPR scientists then began analyzing pesticide use trends. An analysis of 1991-95 pesticide use is available online at <. DPR plans to release an analysis of the 1996 data and 1991-96 pesticide use trends in a few weeks. These analyses supplement pesticide use summaries, which have been released for several years. DPR compiles yearly pesticide use reports from the most extensive database of its kind in the nation. California requires reporting of all pesticides used in agriculture, as well as commercial applications that may include rights-of-way, public health, structural fumigation and pest control. Home and most industrial and institutional uses are exempt from reporting. Some key facts from the 1996 pesticide use reports and upcoming analysis: * Reported pesticide use in California declined from 1995 to 1996. A total of 197.8 million pounds of pesticides were reported in 1996, compared to 205.1 million pounds in 1995. Pesticide use in production agriculture declined to 182.4 million pounds in 1996 from 187.6 million pounds in 1995. Overall pesticide use also declined as measured by cumulative number of acres treated, and number of applications. (As cited above, pesticide use in pounds includes adjuvants, the ingredients that cause a pesticide to stick, spread, or dissolve as needed. DPR analyses of pesticide use exclude adjuvants.) DPR's pending analysis of the 1991-96 data will underscore the fact that one year of data does not signify a trend. For example, pesticide use increased from 1991 to 1995. Pesticide use varies from year to year, depending upon pest problems, weather, crops, and other factors discussed in DPR's analysis. * From 1991 to 1996, the single most-used agricultural pesticide -- in pounds used, applications, and cumulative acres treated -- was sulfur, a natural fungicide favored by both conventional and organic growers. Sulfur accounted for 36 percent of all active ingredient pounds used,about 9 percent of production agricultural uses, and 11 percent of acres treated. Due to sulfur's irritant properties and extensive use, sulfur is also the most frequently reported source of pesticide-related injury (primarily skin irritation). * Only four pesticides (sulfur, oil, metam-sodium, and methyl bromide) accounted for 68 percent of all pounds applied in production agriculture in 1996. And only 31 agricultural pesticides (out of approximately 800) accounted for 85 percent of all pounds applied. The same pesticides accounted for most of the increase from 1991 to 1996. While these 31 pesticides range widely in toxicity, a number of them are generally acknowledged as reduced-risk pesticides. * DPR's analysis found that only 19 crops accounted for 83 percent of all production agricultural pesticide use, 71 percent of all applications, and 82 percent of all acres treated in 1996. Ranked by pounds applied, crops with the highest pesticide use were grapes (wine, table, and raisin), followed by tomatoes, almonds, cotton, oranges, strawberries, carrots, rice, and sugarbeets. Before 1996, DPR lacked sufficient yearly data to analyze use trends, as well as the computer technology needed to conduct detailed analyses. Once the computer hardware was acquired, DPR then needed to develop custom programming to detect errors in pesticide use data. Error-checking was critical to DPR's use report analysis because even a small percentage of errors can significantly skew the statistics. Working with agricultural commissioners who review and submit individual pesticide use reports filed in their counties, DPR has significantly improved the accuracy of pesticide use reports. For example, DPR's error-checking programs revealed that use reports had overstated total pounds of pesticide applied statewide from 1991 to 1995. However, the revised data did not alter an overall increase in pesticide pounds applied during the five-year period. (See the attached tables for revised poundage totals for 1991-1995, and for pounds applied by county in 1996.) The pesticides reported used are only a portion of those sold in the state each year. In 1996, there were 699,5 million pounds of pesticide active ingredients sold in California. Sales figures include not only agricultural chemicals whose use must be reported, but also pesticides used in homes and gardens and in industrial and institutional settings, including disinfectants and other anti-microbials. Among the latter is chlorine used for municipal water treatment. Chlorine products typically account for more than a third of the pesticide active ingredients sold in California. Approximately 10,500 branded products that contained about 800 different active ingredients were registered for sale in California in 1996. Summaries of the 1996 pesticide use report information are available free online or for a nominal charge on hard copy or diskette. Two summary versions of the data -- one indexed by pesticides, the other by crops -- include number of applications, acreage or units (e.g., bins) treated, and pounds of pesticide used. Summaries may be ordered in hard copy ($10 each) or on diskette ($2.50). To order, send payment to: Cashier, State of California; Department of Pesticide Regulation, 830 K Street, Sacramento 95814-3510 U.S.A. Payment must be in US funds. The data summaries may be downloaded free from DPR's Web page. A complete data set of the 2.5 million-plus individual 1996 pesticide use reports is also available on CD ROM at a nominal cost. For information about obtaining the CD-ROM, call the DPR Environmental Monitoring and Pest Management Branch at 916/324-4100. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 12:22:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29377 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA14800 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:21:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA14775 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.20] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ia843994 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 10:17:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000201bea5f9$2c528d80$149fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "jim worstell" To: Subject: Tysonization Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 07:28:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1029 What is another word for the type of vertical integration common in the poultry industry? Sara Vogel says North Dakotans call it Tysonization. Is there a better term for it? Some use vertical integration to refer only to "Tysonization". Others use the term more broadly to include limited equity cooperatives which are selling direct to consumers. Sara Vogel recently gave a great talk here in Arkansas where she brazenly used the term. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 12:49:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29884 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00290 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:53:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00264 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 24 May 1999 11:57:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mary Gold To: "'renew@eoni.com'" Cc: Bargyla Rateaver , sanet-mg Subject: RE: More info please (Organic method primer) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:57:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1030 Hello Rene, The National Agricultural Library lists the following two books by the Rateavers. They can be obtained via interlibrary loan at your local or university library. Perhaps they are still available for purchase through the Rateavers? Rateaver, Bargyla, 1916- The organic method primer, by Bargyla and Gylver Rateaver. (256 pp.) ISBN: 096006921X Pauma Valley, Calif., 1973 NAL Call #: S605.5.R37 Rateaver, Bargyla, 1916- Organic method primer update: a practical explanation: the how and why for the beginner and the experienced, by Bargyla and Gylver Rateaver. (Conservation gardening and farming. Series A) (596 pp.) ISBN: 0915966018 San Diego, Calif.: The Rateavers, 1993. NAL Call #: S605.5.R37--1993 Also listed in Books in Print, 1999: Rateaver, Bargyla, 1916- Organic method primer basics: the basics: special edition, by Bargyla and Gylver Rateaver. (Conservation Gardening and Farming Ser.) (100 pp.) San Diego: Rateavers, Nov. 1994 I hope that this helps. Sincerely, Mary V. Gold Alternative Farming Systems Information Center National Agricultural Library, ARS, USDA 10301 Baltimore Ave., Room 304 Beltsville MD 20705-2351 phone: 301-504-6559 fax: 301-504-6409 e-mail: mgold@nal.usda.gov http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic -----Original Message----- From: Rene' [mailto:renew@eoni.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 9:15 AM To: fjohnson@cillnet.com Cc: Bargyla Rateaver; sanet-mg Subject: Re: More info please Floyd: If you get some info on that primer, send it my way! Rene' To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 13:55:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01170 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA08780 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:57:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08730 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:57:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Janekelly1@aol.com Received: from Janekelly1@aol.com (7991) by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7KFIa15511 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:57:17 EDT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1050 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1031 This wouldn't download. Please resend? Thanks. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 14:37:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02306 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08718 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:46:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08669 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eri.erinet.com (mail1.erinet.com [207.0.229.18]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11487 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.207]) by eri.erinet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1.18) with SMTP id NAA12930 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 13:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01ac01bea60e$ac58b440$cf7a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:55:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1032 Hi all, No tillers around here use many crops in their rotations however most no till applications are used primarily on wheat and beans. Corn has lost much of its popularity because of yeild reduction on certain years. I know of some that use it on everything including; corn, alfalfa, wheat, sorgum and beans. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Greg & Lei Gunthorp To: sgroff@epix.net ; Pat Elazar Cc: Roberto Verzola ; lonrom@hevanet.com ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 8:25 AM Subject: Re: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution) >Steve, > Do you really think most that have adapted no-till have widened their >rotation? I don't see much besides no-till corn followed with no-till beans >around here. I think thats hardly more than an alternation of crops. Its a >far cry from a rotation. I don't have any idea on the amount of chemicals >they are applying but I would guess that the no-till farmers that use >reduced rates are about as few and far between as the farmers who use >tillage. I've seen the video on your farm and what you are doing is a very >sensible aproach. Very low chemical and low erosion aproach to growing >vegetables. I have a very hard time lumping all the no-till farmers in with >you. I doubt if most, just like tillage farmers, are not at all concerned >about sustainability. > >I still don't understand why we have to grow so much corn(no-tilled or not) >in this country and turn around and feed it to ruminant animals. No-till is >better than molboard on erosion but it doesn't compare to untilled >grass/legume pasture. > >Have you got all your vegetables in the ground? >Best wishes, >Greg Gunthorp >Free Range Hog Farmer >LaGrange, IN >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Groff >To: Pat Elazar >Cc: Roberto Verzola ; lonrom@hevanet.com >; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 9:36 PM >Subject: Re: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global >WarmingSolution) > > >> >> >>Pat Elazar wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>Who have you seen or heard campaigning against tillage? >>Of course companies who manufacture herbicides will promote them to no till >farmers, >>but as you see below, long term no till will reduce the need for >herbicides. It >>certainly has on my farm. >>If you talk with any soil scientist, he will tell you that most tillage has >a >>detrimental effect on the soil. Tilling the soil might benefit the farmer >in some >>way, but not the soil and the critters who live in it. >> >> >>> the no-till/low-till guys who'd been doing it for a while generally used >less >>> chemical than anybody else. If they survived the first couple of years, >they >>> learned how to walk their fields, map their fields & widen rotations to >reduce >>> weed problems systemically. The no-till guys also used half-rates, one >third >>> rates & spot applications when they did spray. They also chose more >competitive >>> varieties & tinkered combine settings to maximize crop residue (we >usually call >>> that mulch on this list). After 10 years of no-till, they usually had >more >>> organic matter, less weeds, less disease problems than their neighbours & >maybe >>> even a few worms! >>> >>> would >>> have >>> >> >>Alot of farmers (especially the conventional) are aware of this and are >doing >>something about it now. I've found the detrimantal effects of tillage to be >an issue >>that a good many sustainable farmers ignore. The moldbord plow has caused >>significant damage to the quality of soil. >> >>Steve Groff >> >>-- >>"Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com >>Cedar Meadow Farm >>679 Hilldale Rd >>Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 >> >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 14:48:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02757 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA16955 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16847 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eri.erinet.com (mail1.erinet.com [207.0.229.18]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA11776 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.207]) by eri.erinet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1.18) with SMTP id OAA15083 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 14:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01df01bea610$aff7e920$cf7a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: Raw Milk CSA's Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:10:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1033 Please let me know what they got sick and/or died from when they drank raw milk. Was the producer grade "A". The reason I asked was that we live in an area with many dairy farms and in all the time I've been around I've never even heard of anyone getting sick from let alone die from unpasturized milk. Furthermore, as far as I know our herboligest(sp?) and their comunity highly recommends unpasturized milk because of its high nutritional value. Please shed some light on this. Thanks, Paul Schmitmeyer -----Original Message----- From: Douglas M. Hinds To: Phil Gillman ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Raw Milk CSA's > >The "shareholders" will have to agree that the milk is not for human consumption, in order to relieve the producer / distributor from liability. That way, the subscriber would be responsable for any other use. > >>i've never know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, > >Unfortunately, I've known plenty who have and some died from it. The important thing is to be sure the cows are free from TB (Brucellosis too, although it's rarely lethal), and that handling avoids contamination from salmonella and listeria etc. > >DH > > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 21/05/99 at 10:39 AM Phil Gillman wrote: > >>You know, perhaps this would not be considered "selling" the milk if you >>word the CSA contract well- After all, the members are "shareholders", >>and the milk is their "dividend" >> >>No need for special "raw milk licencing" (which you may not need in VT >>any way) >> >>BUT, be sure to Include and indemnity from liability in the CSA >>contract, You know, make everyone aware that they are choosing to drink >>raw milk and that there may be some risks involved (although i've never >>know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, and i've been drinking it all >>my life- ;-) >> >>Best of luck- >>Phil Gillman >>pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 15:49:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA04910 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA21733 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:03:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21716 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 15:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.210] (br-ppp04.hevanet.com [198.5.254.210]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA20059; Mon, 24 May 1999 12:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905241903.MAA20059@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:55:57 -0700 Subject: FW: High-Tech Surveillance Nabs Water Weeds From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: John Wechter , SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1034 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: High-Tech Surveillance Nabs Water Weeds Date: Mon, May 24, 1999, 7:07 AM STORY LEAD: High-Tech Surveillance Nabs Water Weeds ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 24, 1999 Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- The thickest patches of exotic weeds clogging the lower Rio Grande River can't hide any longer and could get their comeuppance, thanks to high-tech aerial mapping technology developed by Agricultural Research Service scientists. Beginning last year, the technology helped the Texas Natural Resource Conservation Commission (TNRCC) and the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department detect tons of hydrilla and water hyacinth growing on the river so they could be removed. During last year's drought, these weeds were sucking up scarce water and obstructing the flow of irrigation water. Hydrilla, native to Asia, and water hyacinth, native to South America, share a notoriety for clogging marinas, snarling fishing lines and interfering with flood control and hydroelectric power generation. The weeds grow so competitively with other aquatic plants that biological diversity may be threatened in many lakes and streams through southern parts of North America. ARS and TNRCC researchers used aircraft to acquire color-infrared video imagery that pinpointed locations where the alien vegetation had infested the Rio Grande. The imagery makes water hyacinth appear orange-red and hydrilla appear reddish-brown. The scientists measured the area of infestations by computer analysis of the imagery. Verification of the data by boat helped advance other research that's aimed at conducting wider-scale surveys of weed infestations using additional remote sensing, global positioning system and geographic information system technologies. These technologies may help scientists make timely assessments of experimental weed control measures. ARS is the chief scientific arm of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ---------- Scientific contact: James H. Everitt, ARS Subtropical Agricultural Research Center, Weslaco, Texas; phone (956) 969-4824, fax (956) 969-4893, j-everitt@tamu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 18:52:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08672 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 18:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA14117 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 18:09:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14091 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 18:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.48]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Mon, 24 May 1999 17:08:46 -0500 Message-ID: <199905241706550360.004C11F8@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <01df01bea610$aff7e920$cf7a5acf@oemcomputer> References: <01df01bea610$aff7e920$cf7a5acf@oemcomputer> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:06:55 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Paul Schmitmeyer" Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Raw Milk CSA's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA14096 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1035 Paul, >what they got sick and/or died from was mycobacterium bovis. (Bovine Tuburculosis). Lots of it around here in cows. (As shown by studies done by vet students and faculty on milk cows taken to the municipal slaughter house and sacrificed). And lots of it in people (as shown by the cases registered with the health departmentment and treated by them. I had all of them interviewed, but wasn't able to interview those that had already died). This and brucellosis (rarely mortal but can have lengthy or lasting sequela) are the main reasons pasturization is required by law. Keep your cows habitat clean, feed them well (w/ fresh food preferably), be sure your cows get plenty exercise and are free from zoonosis, so everyone can live to enjoy the higher nutritional value and better taste of raw milk. Otherwise, I can assure you that it just isn't worth it. DH *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 24/05/99 at 2:10 PM Paul Schmitmeyer wrote: >Please let me know what they got sick and/or died from when they drank raw >milk. Was the producer grade "A". The reason I asked was that we live in an >area with many dairy farms and in all the time I've been around I've never >even heard of anyone getting sick from let alone die from unpasturized milk. >Furthermore, as far as I know our herboligest(sp?) and their comunity highly >recommends unpasturized milk because of its high nutritional value. Please >shed some light on this. >Thanks, >Paul Schmitmeyer > >-----Original Message----- >From: Douglas M. Hinds >To: Phil Gillman ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > >Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 3:03 PM >Subject: Re: Raw Milk CSA's > > >> >>The "shareholders" will have to agree that the milk is not for human >consumption, in order to relieve the producer / distributor from liability. >That way, the subscriber would be responsable for any other use. >> >>>i've never know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, >> >>Unfortunately, I've known plenty who have and some died from it. The >important thing is to be sure the cows are free from TB (Brucellosis too, >although it's rarely lethal), and that handling avoids contamination from >salmonella and listeria etc. >> >>DH >> >> >>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >>On 21/05/99 at 10:39 AM Phil Gillman wrote: >> >>>You know, perhaps this would not be considered "selling" the milk if you >>>word the CSA contract well- After all, the members are "shareholders", >>>and the milk is their "dividend" >>> >>>No need for special "raw milk licencing" (which you may not need in VT >>>any way) >>> >>>BUT, be sure to Include and indemnity from liability in the CSA >>>contract, You know, make everyone aware that they are choosing to drink >>>raw milk and that there may be some risks involved (although i've never >>>know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, and i've been drinking it all >>>my life- ;-) >>> >>>Best of luck- >>>Phil Gillman >>>pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org >>> Douglas M. Hinds, CEO Tropical Development Associates 1900 Fox Drive "G" 150 McAllen TX 78504 Nationwide Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) Nationwide Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net & tda@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 24 23:56:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA12486 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:56:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA20309 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:10:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA20190 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21038 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.44]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <199905242207540700.015FACD9@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <3f29f790.247ad992@aol.com> References: <3f29f790.247ad992@aol.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:07:54 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: AgriSpec@aol.com, threecords@excite.com Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: First International CSA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA20204 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1036 (Abbreviated) On 24/05/99 at 12:34 PM AgriSpec@aol.com wrote: >I maintain a website ... where I list >farms, ranches, CSAs... >Listing your operation is free ... >My interest in listing you is for you to get some business (which I don't want >any percentage of), ... >I am motivated by my desire >to help an industry now under siege. ... This will work to the degree you are able to attract visitors to your site. Since that is what you want, I am going to post on sanet itself and one or more other list servers dedicated to agricultural topics. >contact the farms or ranches listed by going to their page in RuralTown and using the box >form. Your communications with them are private, I'm in no way involved. My experience has been that commercial operations which have attempted to do what you describe have failed for reasons that your contribution transends: 1).- There are no products at that site, just pointers (since it's a virtual store, not a store; and (what's worse) 2).- The buyer is separated from the seller and vice versa, due to the insistence of the mediator in participating in the comercial operation. Hence, nothing gets worked out - no understanding is reached, since the parties involved are separated by an inefficient, incompetent and relatively unresponsive or uninformed intermediary. If you indeed are able to attract visors to your site, what you are doing could prove effective if the parties on both side can take if from there and work out an agreement. Conceivably, lasting relations could be formed via this means. In the end, it won't matter much to the parties how they were brought together, but since helping to bring them together is what you want to acheive anyway, that won't matter to you. You will have acheived your worthy goal and that's what matters. >I look forward to hearing from you. You just did. I'll check out your site and probably post something. D H *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 24/05/99 at 12:34 PM AgriSpec@aol.com wrote: >Greetings Dmhinds: > >My name is David Durick & I am writing in response to your message to a list >I belong to: >sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu > > >I maintain a website called 'ThreeCords FreeAmerican MarketPlace' at: >http://www.angelfire.com/sd/ThreeCords/index.html This site provides a >selection of what I consider to be good information and features an area >called RuralTown at: http://business.fortunecity.com/bass/763/ where I list >farms, ranches, CSAs... > >That section of the site is only beginning, but I hope to build it. Listing >your operation is free for you and a valuable addition to me and the site. My >interest in listing you is for you to get some business (which I don't want >any percentage of), and for my site to gain visitors and involvement. With my >personal roots in a South Dakota farm and ranch, I am motivated by my desire >to help an industry now under siege. > >I would ask you to visit the FreeAmerican MarketPlace at: >http://www.angelfire.com/sd/ThreeCords/index.html and invite a few friends. >If you would like to see more of what I am involved with on the net, my wife >(Zonna) and I also maintain a Christian site at: >http://www.myfreeoffice.com/y2kommentary/index.html and a Y2K site at: >http://www.angelfire.com/sd/ThreeCords/y2kindex.html > >This is no con, I'm serious too. Please get back to me. I won't contact you >further unless you express an interest. (By the way, you can contact the >farms or ranches listed by going to their page in RuralTown and using the box >form. Your communications with them are private, I'm in no way involved. >Check with those I have listed if you wish to, or just get to know another >producer. > >I look forward to hearing from you. > >Sincerely, > >David J. Durick >559-271-2449 >threecords@excite.com >agrispec@aol.com Douglas M. Hinds, Director Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (Center for Community and Rural Development, Non-profit Association) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 Mexico U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412-6308 (direct - Cd. Guzman, Jalisco) Tel. & Fax: 011 528 922-2424 (direct - Reynosa, Tamaulipas) e-mail: cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx, dmhinds@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 00:33:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA12918 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA08743 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:41:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08580 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool582-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.72]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10416; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3749C2FF.7DEF6E7B@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:22:07 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sgroff@epix.net CC: fjohnson@cillnet.com, sanet-mg Subject: Re: [Fwd: No-till (Formerly FW: Farmers Part of the Global WarmingSolution)] References: <3747A68C.99C3513A@cillnet.com> <3748C5AA.6265014C@epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1037 Sticking my nose in where not asked and where it does not belong !! Whatever sustainable means, is nothing. Anything goes. The most wicked chemical users want their way to be sustainable too. Since the earth was designed by the Creator, only He has the right to decide what is the right way to take care of it. What kind of tools do you think people had 6000 yrs ago, when Eden was closed out and nothing but thorns and thistles was available? Compost we know from that long ago time, and use of manure. Some kind of plow, yes, because mentioned, but certainly not a metal behemoth that smells horrible and figures everything in its path is for it to smash. If we really, truly want to know the right way, we make sure to pass the tests that open the door to the restored Eden. Then and there, will be no hard work to grow food, no massive or even not massive tools, just easy. Steve Groff wrote: > Floyd Johnson wrote: > > > We are always talking about black and white which one is right. Does any > > one think maybe gray is the right answer? Steve mentioned that the > > moldboard plow has done a lot of damage, but is our only alternative > > No-Till? Could a shallow disking do the job? Just curious! > > Floyd, > Glad you asked for this clarification. Anything less than a moldboard plow is a step in > the right direction. Adding to what Fred Magdoff said, we have quite an array of tillage > tools now that do a specific job when it comes to tillage. You as a farmer need to be > creative with the machinery at your disposal and the cropping system you are working > with. Shallow disking certainly is better than plowing, but there might be times when > deep narrow tillage (zone till) is more appropriate. To me, the key is leaving as much > residue on the surface as you can. Think of tillage in the same way you think of using > chemicals. Why am I using it? Is there a more natural way? Do the benefits outweigh the > disadvantages? What long term affects (good or bad) am I creating? Why do you need to > till in the first place? > > I really like your questions Floyd. To me it's the same as saying, "We are always > talking about black and white which one is right. Does any one think maybe gray is the > right answer? Chemicals have done a lot of damage, but is our only alternative Organics? > Could sustainable agriculture do the job? Just curious! > > Steve Groff > -- > "Enhancing the Environment" www.cedarmeadowfarm.com > Cedar Meadow Farm > 679 Hilldale Rd > Holtwood PA 17532 USA Ph. 717-284-5152 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 00:35:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA12939 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 00:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA08458 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:41:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08431 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21462 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 23:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool582-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.72]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10538; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:40:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3749C3B8.73856F4B@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:25:12 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edna M Weigel CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: planting peanuts References: <19990523.202142.3486.1.eweigel@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1038 There is a great deal in the Primer UPDATE about peanuts, important because there has been so much misinformation published around over the years. I made sure to straighten out before I finished that section. So if you really want all the dope, send me your snail mail address and I can photocopy it for you. (I NEVER give out address, phone, etc. Over the years I must have had many, many thousands of letters and never gave away anything--I consider that immoral. ========================= Edna M Weigel wrote: > Is there a peanut farmer out there who can tell me how to plant > peanuts? A doctor once told me commercially available peanuts are > contaminated with mold. He predicted that I could tolerate peanuts if I > grew, processed, and properly stored my own. As I browsed the seed > catalogs this spring, I saw a chance to test his prediction and ordered a > quarter pound of Spanish Type Peanuts. They arrived still in the shells > with no hint as to whether or not I should shell them before planting. > There are 2 or 3 seeds per pod, so they will come up much thicker if I > leave them in the pod. The catalog says to plant them 1 to 2 inches deep > and 6" apart. Can anyone out there elaborate for me? > Also, I would appreciate any hints on how to properly harvest and > store peanuts. > --Regards, Edna Weigel > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 06:00:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA15376 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 06:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA21627 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:03:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA21615 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25494 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 05:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.50]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 25 May 1999 04:02:48 -0500 Message-ID: <199905250400590080.02A2F8D0@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 04:00:59 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: PetersFarm@aol.com, sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: First International CSA - not short Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id FAA21617 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1039 On 24/05/99 at 11:11 AM PetersFarm@aol.com wrote: >tell me more - As the signature shows, I head a Mexican non profit development organization that promotes and supports development projects, mainly agricultural and / or ecological but we also contribute to resolving community issues in a variety of other areas, as able. I've been here 25 years and have been doing this about 10, farming before that in the mountains here in Jalisco and before that for a few years in Southern California. The projects can be based in any part of Mexico where our support is solicited. We work mainly with Indian tribes and low income, collective farmers. No policy exists that excludes the participation of wealthier growers but in practice any that join in do so in such a way that greater numbers of individuals and families are also benefited. The agricultural projects are all oriented toward the organic market but must depart from a basis of locally tried and true methods - meaning that a large investment in locally unproven crops or technology must begin with evaluation and or demonstration plots, in order to justify the change to something (hopefully) better for both growers and the banks or government agencies financing the crop. From there we move as rapidly as possible toward fully organic methods, adding logical things like letting fruit get sufficiently ripe, extra care in handling, etc. Any crop that may require any amount of any agrochemical initially (while in transition to fully organic), will receive the minimum amount of the least toxic and most quickly dissipating type available and will be avoided entirely where ever possible. I myself have never used an agrochemical on any land I've farmed and I began farming in 1968. >what's involved at our end? Must we >contract for a ton a week, or what? The first logical step is to determine whether a degree of interest exists in 1).- Receiving a given array of products (more on that later) and 2).- Establishing a collaborative relationship between groups of growers on the one hand, and groups of consumers on the other. The consumer groups may be either already organized or become organized explicitly in relation to the project itself. To a limited degree, the relationship between the two groups is negotiable between the parties involved in each and every instance, within guidelines that were developed in response to previous experiences and the relevant legal considerations involved. Getting back to the array of products to be offered, it will consist of products unavailable locally and fall into two separate principal categories: Tropical Fruits and Off Season (or winter) Fruits and Vegetables. Tropical products include Pineapple, Papaya, Limes and Mango (although these last require hot water treatment and the infrastructure with which to do it). Avocados can be shipped to certain U.S. states. Guavas from Mexico can not currently enter the U.S. except in processed form. Coconuts are another possibility. Many other fruits are available but are less mainstream and perhaps should not be considered until later, once the mainstream products have been successfully introduced. However, your suggestions are welcome. Off Season (or winter) products include Melons, Tomatoes, Cucumbers, Bell Peppers, Squash and perhaps Eggplant. I say perhaps because there are many other items that can be considered specialty items and would be subject to establishing special arrangements (i.e. a type of Grow to Order operation), due to the lower volume involved. In any case, before quantifying a given minimum volume for a range of products, we would best determine the growth potential of the region in which interested participating parties are located, as well as the disposition on their part to help organize others within that geographic area. There are many forms that the relationship could take, but who will we be dealing with and where are they located, relative to other population centers. There are two separate but linked areas in which we could follow this up, that of the CSA itself (direct shipments to consumers who subscribe to or support farm production to some extent), with the added possibility of further distribution - a kind of investment in agricultural development in Mexico, which would both influence the course of events here toward a sustainable future, keep more people working on the land and provide high quality and uncontaminated tropical and off season food that would be shipped directly to your area. All we would need would be to organize a group large enough to accommodate full truck loads (partial truckload carriers are unavailable in Mexico), although perhaps a load could be divided at the border with participating groups in other cities. I had mentioned a year or more ago something about SERA or SER (can your computer see accents?), which means "it will be" in Spanish and spells out "Socially and Ecologically Responsible Agriculture" in this case; something that goes farther than organic, socially: Both a better product and a better deal for both growers and consumers. Using a digital camera, we will be able to show our partners fruit that's ready to be picked or loaded in a truck. A client or subscriber can ask for a close up or a given angle of a given subject, and that could be done and transmitted immediately. (There's no film that has to be developed). The email clients, the www and the browsers shorten the distance. Instead of giving out brochures, a presentation could be installed on a portable computer, printing out only those pages attracting a special interest. >From either Cd. Guzman or the Papaloapan it's a full half day drive to the border or slightly more (13-15 hr). A loaded truck shouldn't take more than 5-10 hr. more. So we're only a day from the border. A truck leaving late one day should arrive late the next, cross early the next day, clear customs, be graded and be on it's way the same day. Can you determine the travel time between McAllen and your area? I'll bet we're closer to you than the San Joaquin Valley is. And that is to begin with. The next step will be to install a border packing and processing operation that will provide an additional security boost for all concerned. Both growers and consumers groups from different parts of both countries can share the cost of that. Product will arrive in field boxes within refrigerated trucks and each fruit will be graded and packed or processed (with a predominance of fresh cut processing for salads and juices in their natural state), according to it's condition on arrival and the demand registered, where multiple options exist (i.e. pineapple chunks, juice or as part of a fruit salad). Our quality control levels will be high, and we will know exactly what is crossing the border. A variety of packaging options will be available, with an emphasis on reusable, hygienic containers that double as display boxes, to avoid excessive handling and reduce costs. However, alternative personalized options will be available as solicited by consum! ers groups and possibly, chains. I'd be happy to respond to any further questions you may have and to continue defining the process best followed in order to begin operations. But for now, I'd better get a little rest - It's 10 to 4 am. D H *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 24/05/99 at 11:11 AM PetersFarm@aol.com wrote: >tropical food - the world's first international CSA movement, to complement >the organic scene - any takers? I'm not kidding.> > >Sounds wonderful, tell me more - what's involved at our end? Must we >contract for a ton a week, or what? > >Betty Ann Gras >petersfarm@aol.com > Douglas M. Hinds, Director Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (Center for Community and Rural Development, Non-profit Association) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 Mexico U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 011 523 412-6308 (direct - Cd. Guzman, Jalisco) Tel. & Fax: 011 528 922-2424 (direct - Reynosa, Tamaulipas) e-mail: cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx, dmhinds@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 09:32:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17170 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 09:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA22947 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:39:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA22887 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00D23BC5@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 25 May 1999 8:38:30 -0400 Received: from sareace2.griffin.peachnet.edu (sareace2.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.65]) by gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA22929 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905251239.IAA22929@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Gwen Roland" To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:35:20 +0500 Subject: SSARE Call released X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1040 Southern Region SARE has just released the Research and Education Call for Preproposals. Preproposals for both full projects and planning projects are due August 3. A systems oriented approach is encouraged in the following priority areas: Limited-Resource Farmers Whole Systems Environmentally Sound/Multiple Land Uses Structure of Agriculture Emerging Issues A copy of the call can be obtained at the following URL: http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare/2000RECALL/20RE.html Southern Region SARE funds projects in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands. Gwen Roland Southern Region SARE 1109 Experiment Street Griffin, GA 30223 Ph: (770) 412-4786 Fax: (770) 412-4789 http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 12:38:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA21319 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22476 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:31:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22438 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.150] (ke-ppp00.hevanet.com [198.5.254.150]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA14037 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 08:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905251531.IAA14037@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:34:59 -0700 Subject: FW: Smut--Not Always a Bad Word From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1041 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Smut--Not Always a Bad Word Date: Tue, May 25, 1999, 6:13 AM STORY LEAD: Friendly Fungus With Dirty Name Takes on Southern Menace ---------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 25, 1999 Jan Suszkiw, (301) 504-1630, jsuszkiw@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Wiping out smut is a campaign for some folks. But in Louisiana's bayou country, Rex Millhollon is actually trying to encourage it--loose kernel smut, that is. The fungus, Sphacelotheca holci, is the respected agronomist's latest jab at halting Johnsongrass, a loathsome southern weed that keeps popping up in the region's sugarcane fields every year. Millhollon is exploring this biological approach to weed control at the Sugarcane Research Unit, operated in Houma, La., by the Agricultural Research Service, chief scientific agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. In the lower Mississippi Delta region of southern Louisiana, where Millhollon's research takes place, cane growers typically rely on chemical herbicides to rid their fields of the pesky grass. One concern, however, is the potential build-up of chemical residues in the environment. Another is cost: Cane growers can spend up to $50 per acre applying chemical controls. Though a good sugar crop can defray the expense, each new season is met by a fresh contingent of the weed, necessitating another round of herbicide. To break the cycle, Millhollon has sought to develop the smut fungus into a so-called mycoherbicide. The trick: getting the fungus to infect the whole plant, weakening it and its prolific seed-producing machinery. In greenhouse experiments, Millhollon injected a smut spore solution directly into the weed's tissues, causing infection rates of 75 to 85 percent and seedheads resembling a dark, crumbly mass. In a more practical approach, Millhollon formulated the fungus into a mycoherbicide, spraying it onto the weed in field plots. Though 50 to 80 percent became infected, the treatment didn't protect the plot's cane crop as well as conventional herbicides. Now, Millhollon is eyeing ways to give the fungus a helping hand, including breeding it with other Sphacelotheca that are more effective at infecting Johnsongrass. A longer article about smut, the fungus, appears in the May issue of Agricultural Research magazine at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/smut0599.htm --------- Scientific contact: Rex Millhollon, ARS Sugarcane Research Unit, Houma, La., phone (504) 853-3174, fax (504) 868-8369, Rmillhol@nola.srrc.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 12:44:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA21421 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA28971 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:45:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28894 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:48:25 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: New open forum on biotechnology in agriculture Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:48:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1042 -----Original Message----- From: scott Fuller [mailto:smf13@cornell.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 12:11 AM To: smf13@cornell.edu Cc: campaign@magiccarpet.com; fap-ne-ag-devel-L@cornell.edu; NEFOOD-L@cornell.edu; san@nalusda.gov; browner.carol@epa.gov Subject: New open forum on biotechnology in agriculture -=-=-=---=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-= (Apologize for cross listings while simultaneously spreading the word): Please share this with your local groups (especially universities) or individuals who may be interested. Thanx. Scott -------------------------------------------- Introducing a new listserve on biotechnology in agriculture and foods. (Incepted 4/15/99-currently over 200 on list from all over the US and the world!) biotech-L@cornell.edu A group of Cornell students has formed around the issue of genetically modified organisms (GMO), particularly pertaining to agricultural commodities and foods. The list welcomes all views but may mostly be engaged in informing ourselves, the greater community and Cornellians on the potential concerns of GMOs in agriculture. Postings are preferred which deal with biotechnology in agriculture. Otherwise, the range and complexity of information could be overwhelming. This list is created by a new group of active Cornell students called: People for Responsible Biotechnology in Agriculture. The group is not limited only to students. Cornell faculty and staff, researchers, farmers, and community members are invited to participate in this open forum. To get on this list send an email to: listproc@cornell.edu In message text write: SUB biotech-L your name No commas or periods and all on the same line. The name seems important to the server, not just your email address. (To unsubscribe do the same but put UNSUB rather than SUB.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=--=-=-=-=-=-=--=-= To receive the digest form (only one email a day with all the postings listed in an index) send an email (ONLY after subscribing from above) to listproc@cornell.edu In the text write: set BIOTECH-L mail digest Items can also be posted to biotech-L@cornell.edu (biotech and L are not case sensitive) without being subscribed to it. For more info contact Scott Fuller (smf13@cornell.edu) -=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-===---=-=-=-=-=--=-==-===-=-=--===-=-=-==-=-=-==- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 13:42:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22746 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29921 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:49:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29872 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 12:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dewitt.iastate.edu (dewitt.agron.iastate.edu [129.186.20.17]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA08847 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 11:49:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990525114840.011141bc@exnet.iastate.edu> X-Sender: x1dewitt@exnet.iastate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 11:48:41 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Jerry DeWitt Subject: ISU Butterfly info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1043 And more information from the field..... Just wanted to alert you to some information going online from Iowa State University today concerning the monarch butterfly/Bt issue. We've added a page on the Pest Management and Environment home page that provides a summary and links to a field research abstract and poster of results. Basically, we found up to 19% mortality of first instar larvae which fed on milkweed adjacent to a Bt field. Article is at http://www.pme.iastate.edu/info/monarch.htm Jerry DeWitt ISU State Sustainable Extension Coordinator >****************************************************** >Brent A. Pringnitz >Extension Program Specialist - Weed Science >2104 Agronomy Hall, Iowa State University >voice 515-294-9487 fax 515-294-9985 >bpring@iastate.edu http://www.weeds.iastate.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 14:23:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23635 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 14:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28895 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rfd1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.175.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28885 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wilde.oit.umass.edu by rfd1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29083) with ESMTP id <0FCA006BRUEQUL@rfd1.oit.umass.edu> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (trf@localhost) by wilde.oit.umass.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA15738 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 13:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:40:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Fetter Subject: EPA Exempts Poison-Free Aerosol Bugkillers... (fwd) X-Sender: trf@wilde.oit.umass.edu To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: Content-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_iCDlgFlqmeRWa0qh8sAp+Q)" X-Authentication-warning: wilde.oit.umass.edu: trf owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1044 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --Boundary_(ID_iCDlgFlqmeRWa0qh8sAp+Q) Content-id: Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thought this might be of interest to some. Rob ---- (from schoolbugs-l) Spring '99 marked the launch of new Poison-Free bug killers proven to be effective at killing insects, without hazardous effects to children, adults or pets. Victor Poison-Free Aerosols contain Mint Oil as the active ingredient, exempt by EPA under FIFRA sec. (b). The Victor Poison-Free line includes Wasp & Hornet Killer, Flying Insect Killer, Ant Killer and Ant & Roach Killer, and is rolling out nationally to hardware, home center, mass merchant and lawn & garden stores. In addition, these revolutionary products have also proven to be an effective method, suitable for IPM in schools. Victor's entire line of aerosol products are certified "poison-free" by Scientific Certification Systems, an independent research organization dedicated to the evaluation of pesticide, chemical and other environmental products. MSDS sheets are avilable on the web or by contacting me. For more information on the new Poison-Free line please contact me at Dshomper@woodstream.com . Thank you, Danica Shomper Woodstream Corporation 69 N Locust Street Lititz, PA 17543 Phone: (717) 626-2125 ext.320 Fax: (717) 626-0978 ***************** T. Robert Fetter Research Assistant Dept. of Resource Economics Draper Hall University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 phone 413-545-5716 fax 413-545-5853 trf@student.umass.edu Check out the Perennial Vegetable Seed Company Catalog at http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~trf/pvsc99.html --Boundary_(ID_iCDlgFlqmeRWa0qh8sAp+Q)-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 15:11:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA24597 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 15:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA12704 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 14:10:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pilot011.cl.msu.edu (pilot011.cl.msu.edu [35.9.5.111]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12676 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 14:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sanchez.css.msu.edu (css41.css.msu.edu [35.8.120.41]) by pilot011.cl.msu.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA26070 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 14:10:23 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990525140614.006ccfb8@pilot.msu.edu> X-Sender: fiskjohn@pilot.msu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:06:15 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Fisk Subject: linking consumer health and production methods Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1045 Saneters: I have an opportunity to make an impact upon a set of decision makers that could result in greater opportunities and funding for sustainable agriculture and food systems. I would very much appreciate any bit of assitance you would offer. I am looking for research results that demonstate the effect of food production methods (animal hormones, pesticides, GMO's, feed lots, storage, food transport) on food quality and diet and health of consumers. I prefer jounal articles, symposia proceedings, government reports, or NGO research reports. References to very good news paper articles or magazine stories may also be helpful. An example might be studies done that confirm increased occurence of food allergies stemming from gmo's. Another may be levels of toxic pesticide residues on food and its effect on children and adults. I realize that not a lot of research has been done that makes the connection between food production methods and consumer health, however, this is the type of information I need. If you know of 1, 2 or 3 references please email me directly (fiskjohn@pilot.msu.edu). I will gather up the responses and post them to SANET for the benefit of all. This is the type of info we need to influence policy and reseach agendas. I appreciate your time and effort. John Fisk John Fisk Research Associate Michigan State University Crop and Soil Science Dept. East Lansing, MI 48824 (517) 355-2312 fiskjohn@pilot.msu.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 17:32:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA29019 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03667 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:42:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03599 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id IAA09222 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:40:02 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz() by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:30:25 +1200 Message-ID: <46404bc751b0@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz () To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:24:59 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Grass Farming In-reply-to: <199905242210.SAA14195@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1046 Better still - why not find out more information from the grazers down under!?! There a loads of sites.. try Agriculture New Zealand http://www.agnz.co.nz.... Agritech Inc http://www.agritech.org.nz If you have any questions, I might be able to help! Cheers Samira Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 17:33:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA29023 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01369 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:37:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA01318 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu by chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0:JLF-19970113) id QAA29114; Tue, 25 May 1999 16:37:18 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990525163652.006b080c@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:36:52 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Lozier Subject: art and ag: harping for harmony Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1047 Back in February, John Fawcett-Long raised the topic of "using art" to promote sustainable ag. Misha responded with a list of examples including storytelling about food, African dancing, cornfield labyrinth etc. Lawrence London weighed in with ideas including an on-line gallery. I applaud them all. It so happens I am a harper. That is, a maker and performer on the traditional (folk) harp. A harper for harmony. Also a long-time participant on this list, with a couple of academic credentials. It has long been a goal of mine to put harp music to the service of sustainable agriculture and development. On June 3-5 I am planning to be in Toronto for the conference of the Agriculture, Food, and Human Values Society. I'll be carrying a harp pretty much wherever I go, so if you see me, please say hello. (If you are planning events in Toronto, I hereby volunteer to perform. My program includes storytelling as well as traditional music from many lands.) Harping for Harmony Foundation exists to promote harmony and community, locally and globally, through harp music. The tie-in between war and ecological destruction is rather timely today as the headlines mention the contamination of Serbia that is an "unintended consequence" of aerial bombardment. Whether I see you in Toronto or not, I'd like to announce my readiness to go anywhere to collaborate with you, as suggested by John Fawcett-Long to express "our movement" through the arts, or as Misha said to answer about the "vision, passion, and spirit of sustainable ag." For more info about Harping for Harmony Foundation: www.harpingforharmony.org Peace. John Lozier, Ph. D. (cultural anthropology), MS (agricultural economics); harper for harmony; President, Harping for Harmony Foundation; Adjunct Associate Professor of Agricultural Education, West Virginia University; Research Assistant, Forage Extension, West Virginia University; (sometimes) professor of cultural anthropology, California University of Pennsylvania jl@harpingforharmony.org jlozier@wvu.edu jlists@wvu.edu PS for printed info and a free harp lapel pin, send me your regular mail address. PPS I'll be traveling from West Virginia to San Francisco the first week of July, then up the coast, then returning from Seattle the last week of July. I'd love to stop by and meet anyone who is interested along my way. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 18:33:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA00414 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA13184 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:50:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA13177 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from computer (ip162.ts4.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.84.162]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with SMTP id RAA19047 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 25 May 1999 17:51:08 -0400 Message-ID: <01BEA6D7.2B192440.logcabinorchard@cyberus.ca> From: Gord Hawkes To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Garlic Concentrate Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:51:02 -0400 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1048 Hi all. We use a liquid garlic concentrate to repel insects in our orchard but, I was wondering what process one would follow to make their own liquid garlic concentrate. For example how many pounds of garlic to how much water would yield 5 gallons of concentrate that could then be diluted 100:1. Does the garlic solution need to undergo fermentation? How long can it keep? Etc., etc., etc. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 19:01:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA01019 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 19:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01107 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:25:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00986 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from osu.edu (ts25-15.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.38]) by mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA20952 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 18:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <374B239B.99F1106E@osu.edu> Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:27:06 -0400 From: Heather Curtis Reply-To: curtis.98@osu.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Student query on the federal Farmland Protection Program Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1049 Hello- I am attempting to write a paper analyzing the effects of the federal Farmland Protection Program. I found the USDA report on Partial Interests in Land and another report dealing with conservation easements. These both dealt mainly in tax laws and held that most of the program is run on a case by case scenario. I called up a friend who runs a non-profit in southern Ohio to help me clear up some confusion on the dispersal of funds and easements. She said that there are differences in conserving lands for preservation and conserving it for farmland, and that those differences are apparent in the tax breaks. Does anyone have personal story concerning land actually saved from development? And, is it true that an easement can be bought for a period of time, say 10 years, and then have the land come up for development at a time when the prices are higher, thereby furnishing a shelter to place farmland in until the optimum price is available? I heard a rumor that this was a possible misuse of easements. Being un-versed in tax law or real estate law, I ask for anecdotes or leads. Thanks, H.M.Curtis curtis.98@osu.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 21:15:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03137 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA15367 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:37:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA15311 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA13589 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA29710 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 19:37:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199905260037.TAA29710@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:37:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Tysonization In-reply-to: <000201bea5f9$2c528d80$149fc2d1@preferred-user> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1050 Howdy, all-- Jim Worstell asked: > What is another word for the type of vertical integration common > in the poultry industry? Sara Vogel says North Dakotans call it > Tysonization. Is there a better term for it? Some use vertical > integration to refer only to "Tysonization". Others use the term > more broadly to include limited equity cooperatives which are > selling direct to consumers. Sara Vogel recently gave a great talk > here in Arkansas where she brazenly used the term. Considering that for some of us (including me) that term also carries the connotation of a huge, mean, disconnected, self-absorbed entity that beats up on people--including those much smaller than itself--to Get More Stuff For Itself...yep, I'd say it's got value as a term. But I'd be aware of the possibility of pursuit by MIBs (Men in Blue) from the legal dept. of Tyson. Those sorts are singularly humorless. (If they had a sense of humor they could never wear pinstripes--it's a cosmic law.) I'm thinking as I write of humor columnist Dave Barry's term, "rooster mode," to refer to the state of being where males lose track of anything other than proving they're Number One--like doing stupid, destructive, meaningless, pointless, or dangerous activities. (Hey, don't squawk at me--it was a guy who said this; I'm merely reporting his insider view; you can complain to him, Dave Barry, c/o The Miami Times.) Anyway, Roosterization kinda works as a term. I will stop now, before the urge to play with the idea of Superman with a cape on leads me to say something I'll later regret. Yours musingly-- pax misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 21:19:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03191 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA21586 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:44:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21556 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id MAA25675 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:41:28 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz() by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:30:31 +1200 Message-ID: <586c7c5e389f@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz () To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:25:37 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: organic research in Scotland X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1051 Hi - does anyone know of any Scottish organisation conducting research into organics? Apparently, Sainsbury are partially funding this.... Your help is much appreciated. Kind Regards Samira Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 21:19:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03213 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA17583 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:39:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (ah-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.154]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA17512 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.4) id UAA06011 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:35:37 -0400 From: Klaus Wiegand Subject: RE: Where Biotech's Going and / or Could Go To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <199905252038_MC2-7702-DE2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1052 hello douglas, >The species themselves and not doing the taking and inserting, >and the people doing it are doing it via mechanical or chemical >means, as distinguished from "husbandry" consisting of breeding >methods that involve the appropriate sexual organs of the >organisms being combined. that's only partially true. think of colchicine and gammy particle bombarding. >In that sense, the >"ownership" is more important than the knowledge, which is more >like genetics - easily transferred, i think, these days unfortunately are also gone in all other fields. it began, when the first patent offices was established. so genetic engineering is no exception. i'm not surprised to find, that private companies are running for patents. the shameful thing is, that governmental institutes are also involved in patenting (see usda and "terminator", here in germany it is the largest scientific research community , the max-planck-institute). so you pay twice, first for the research for the patent (by taxes) and later the 2nd time for the patent license. >legislative attention must be focused on the issue. i would say: additionally. but i wonder, why everyone calls for the government, when he has the decision in his own hands. several days ago there was a posting, in which s.o. asked for reasons, why we would refuse gm products. to me that's the wrong question ! for example i am almost a vegetarian and am surely not willing to discuss with cattle breeders, whether i'm willing or even shall be forced to buy their meat, just because he grows cattle and because it contains high levels of protein, enzymes and vitamins. would i be a total vegetarian, i would not even consider to buy something, which MIGHT contain meat. no discussion, no reasoning with anyone! it is my sole decision. and it has NOTHING to do with scientific reasoning. the same goes for kosher meat for jews or swines for moslems. do not look for a scientific background, where there isn't any (or only a minor one)... although as an agronomist i see a lot of advantages, this does not imply, that i must see the same advantages as a consumer. may i ask, why i (as a consumer) should be in the defense situation of explaining, why i refuse this or that ? isn't it usually just the other way round ? i have the money and so it's me to decide how to spend it. i thought, that was one of the best known facts in america and the reason, why there are PR-agencies.... and i'm astonished, why a lot of writers here feel themselves in the defense and have to explain, why they are "luddists". bioindustry has something valuable to sell ? so they should convince me, that my money is well spent in their gene food. up to now they came up with a flavr-savr, that tasted like a paper handkerchief, a better tasting tomato paste (which was a market success, you see: no global refusal of gm-products) and for the billions spent, an amazingly low number of agronomical advantages (which do not interest me at all as a consumer). seems, as if all these thousands of nice and very special research papers from the lab do not add up to a wholesome result in the field. and i wonder, where we might be, if all these billions would have been spent in conventional breeding. levontin for harvard and one of the most famous breeders from INRA for example published a paper, where they showed, that there is no real advantage for hybrid seed and conventional corn would have the same yields, if breeders had spent the same money in it. a year ago i had a discussion with the represent of the largest seed company in germany and he whined, that they are tired of explaining the advantages of genetic engineering to the public. so i asked the question in the highly frequented fido-area "wissen.ger" (german scientific discussion), if they heard anything of that company and their explanations. guess what ? NOONE EVER heard anything of them, most did not even know the company's name !! my oh my!! and they call this enlightening the public ?? for a better understanding: for a consumer there is no advantage in better industrial processing characteristics or a bacteria-resistant tomato, he simply buys from another batch or switches to a carrot salad... high vitamin content ? not bad, but consumers can choose among a broad variety of vitamin pills maybe from the same "life science"- company, who is the owner of the gm-seeds. some vitamins are produced by gm-bacteria ? for most people the advantage will be evident (though in this case not for me), so it may be a clear buy ! but not according to the technicians on my lab. i asked those, who are gm-opponents, if they would buy a vitamine-enriched gm-variety. clear-cut answer: no. then i asked the women among them, if, PROVIDED they would get cellulitis, if they would buy a salad, which would help against it. they all answered with a YES ! (i'm almost sure, men would have given the same answer, if there were a vegetable producing viagra) now, would you tell me, if you see is any scheme behind that ?? i do not see it. (doesn't matter, they would not offer their money for the vitamins. case closed) the leak has virus resistance ? where's the meat ? may they sell the veined leak elsewhere... seedless grapes ? well, but not really needed, god (or whosoever) provided me with a tongue to spit them out.. nothing more but a nice gag, for which only some people are willing to pay. and besides (not so important) also breedable by conventional means. higher yields ? we already pay enough subsidaries and each pound more increases the sum. as a farmer i would welcome it and would as all the others run straight into "the tragedy of the commons". no escape ! under this view i also understood ann clark's "thank god yields are lower", which people might misunderstand at first glance (me too). ozone-tolerant plants ? wouldn't it be better to solve the probleme ozone at it's basis ? rbgh ? more milk, more mastitis by growth stress, so even conflicting for the farmer.. seems, as if for every advantage i also have to swallow a toad. nice deal. an anticancer-drug or hiv-vaccine derived from a gm-plant ? where is it ?, i'm sure it would be accepted immediately and people would stop throwing bomb after bomb in gene splicers gardens. fusarium-resistant grains ? fantastic ! but this will be an "trade-off", for which you can wait until doomsday. it would interferes between the seeds and the fungicides of the same company. so where are these fantastic and revolutionary gm-product improvements for me, the consumer ?? small improvement - small encitement for a buy... you see, i'm no absolute opponent of biotechnology, but up to now i find their advertisements nothing but hype and their behaviour against me, the consumer, just disgusting. look at the stockmarket, bio technology companies are having more and more problems to explain to their shareholders, why despite the billions of investment up to now they haven't come up with something really worthy. last week i read in the "handelsblatt" (the german counterpart of "wall street journal") of an american biotech-company, who totally failed in the usa and tried a new start in germany's stock market. their big mistake: a reporter from the handelsblatt got wind of an internal memo saying, that "germans are easier to be DUPED by nice advertisements than americans". over and out for their business.. or take this research paper title: PRODUCTION OF FERTILE TRANSGENIC PEANUT (ARACHIS HYPOGAEA L) PLANTS USING AGROBACTERIUM TUMEFACIENS what a marvellous result. fertile peanuts !! they may even have celebrated their success. i only can wonder, how peanut growers have managed to replicate their fruits in the last 5000 years.... last year i even saw a paper from an american university, telling us, that they have successfully cloned a bacterium. imagine that !!!! they cloned a bacterium!! some funders might even be highly impressed ;-)) i'm tired of these kind of advertisements. take a look in the special edition of fortune (25. birthday-edition) in the 50ies, where they asked the most prominent scientists for predictions, how the world would look like in 30 years. not even SOME of these predictions came true, it was NONE of them. and NOONE foresaw ANY of the real industrial revolutions. take the case of your fireants, which increased it's percentage among your ants from 1 to 99 % due to pesticid recommandations of your marvellous scientists. take the case of lead/arsen-pesticides in the beginning of this century. the head of the entomological department of the usda (certainly a scientist, his name was doggerel), declared "there is ABSOLUTELY NO risk in using them" and his collegues lamented over "the warnings of of some ignorants" they even made a poem for the farmers (i have to retranslate it, so mileage may vary): spray, you farmers, spray with ardour, spray peach, pear and apple ! spray against scab, spray against blight, keep on spraying, and do it right. (taken from james whorton; before silent spring: pesticides and public health in pre-ddt america, princeton 1974, p. 90.) and if you ask for any responsability for their work, you get the same answers, the allies got, when after the war they asked for responsablity among the hanger-ons of the nazis: "but we did not know...". there were more people, who concealed a jew, than we had jews at all. are there any scientists, who went to jail for hurting public health ? reminds me of one of the nicest scenes in bogarts "casablanca". when he was asked by the french officer, why he came to marocco, he answered: "i came for the beautiful waters". the officer: "but this is desert land, there are NO waters here". and rick's answer (which might also be that of modern gene splicers in 20 years): "i was misinformed!" i make a prediction: all these companies will have strangled themselves with their indiscriminating sequencing patents in acouple of year. these will make research impossible and applications more expensive than before. maybe i should invest in lawyer incorporated companies.... klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 22:45:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04432 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA05651 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:03:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (greensoft.com [204.77.123.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA05643 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199905260203.WAA05643@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.163] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A61B1810924; Tue, 25 May 1999 21:02:03 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 02:01:57 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Tysonization Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1053 On Tue, 25 May 1999 19:37:20 -0500, Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison wrote: >Considering that for some of us (including me) that term also >carries the connotation of a huge, mean, disconnected, self-absorbed >entity that beats up on people--including those much smaller than >itself--to Get More Stuff For Itself...yep, I'd say it's got value >as a term. But I'd be aware of the possibility of pursuit by MIBs >(Men in Blue) from the legal dept. of Tyson. In which case, well, we were referring to the boxer, weren't we? Could fit equally well, eh? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue May 25 23:57:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05822 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA17485 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:13:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA17391 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA27275 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:15:20 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:09:26 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.145] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1616043c ; Tue, 25 May 1999 22:09:04 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990525220933.0080f100@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:09:33 -0500 To: From: Mike Miller Subject: Re: ISU Butterfly info In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1054 I heard the discussion of this research today on WOI radio, the ISU public radio station. They mentioned taking the Bt covered leaves from the field and washing off half the pollen. I didn't catch why they washed half off but the fact they ended up with 19 % mortality at "half dose" and the Nature article saw 44 % mortality at "full dose" even given how unquantitifed the "dose" is makes me suspect they are on to something real. Mike Miller At 12:26 25-05-99 -0600, you wrote: > >And more information from the field..... > Just wanted to alert you to some information going online from Iowa State >University today concerning the monarch butterfly/Bt issue. We've added a >page on the Pest Management and Environment home page that provides a >summary and links to a field research abstract and poster of results. >Basically, we found up to 19% mortality of first instar larvae which fed on >milkweed adjacent to a Bt field. > >Article is at http://www.pme.iastate.edu/info/monarch.htm > >Jerry DeWitt >ISU State Sustainable Extension Coordinator > > > > >>****************************************************** >>Brent A. Pringnitz >>Extension Program Specialist - Weed Science >>2104 Agronomy Hall, Iowa State University >>voice 515-294-9487 fax 515-294-9985 >>bpring@iastate.edu http://www.weeds.iastate.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 00:30:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06238 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 00:30:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA09292 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:48:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09217 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool144-pm2.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.115.144]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06689; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374A2713.9AAD2611@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:29:07 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Time to Learn How(Grass farming) References: <001a01bea5eb$3080d640$885f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1055 Odd how no one mentions the work of Newman Turner, who really did prove without any doubt by anyone in England in his day, how to be truly successful with grazing Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > I received a few emails asking about information on raising animals on > pasture. Here is my suggestions if you are interested in grass > farming or management intensive grazing, I > would recommend ATTRA, The Leopold Center, The Stockman Grass Farmer > Magazine, Small Farm Today Magazine, www.grassfarmer.com, graze-l and > graze-r listserves, and SARE. All of these have web sites besides the > Stockman Grass Farmer. I would suspect that Ann Clark and others have good > sources of information for beginning grass farmers. There is a very > distinct learning curve to raising animals sucessfully on pasture. Those > that can not put a whole system of genetics, nutrition, forage species, > fencing, water, marketing, etc will not suceed. Also, I think it takes a > completely different mindset that the "average" american farmer. I'm also > convince by pure definition it requires low input including low debt > (relatively speaking) to make > it work. To make pasture work and work well we have to be able to give up > most of the equipment that rusts, rots, and depreciated. > Best of luck, > Greg Gunthorp > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 00:30:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06247 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 00:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA06784 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:46:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA06722 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA16050 for ; Tue, 25 May 1999 23:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool144-pm2.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.115.144]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06345; Tue, 25 May 1999 20:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374A1DC1.92369340@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:49:21 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Schmitmeyer CC: Sanet Subject: Re: Fw: Raw Milk CSA's References: <01df01bea610$aff7e920$cf7a5acf@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1056 Again I stick my unwanted nose in here. I just wish I could copy out, here, the two letters published in a Newman Turner book. One was a nastily sarcastic letter to him, and the other was his reply to the nasty letter. I was surprised at the cool, calm reply Turner wrote, such a sensible response. I think it cut down the nasty letter writer, because no sequel was indicated But I think it would be of use to all graziers. ============================== Paul Schmitmeyer wrote: > Please let me know what they got sick and/or died from when they drank raw > milk. Was the producer grade "A". The reason I asked was that we live in an > area with many dairy farms and in all the time I've been around I've never > even heard of anyone getting sick from let alone die from unpasturized milk. > Furthermore, as far as I know our herboligest(sp?) and their comunity highly > recommends unpasturized milk because of its high nutritional value. Please > shed some light on this. > Thanks, > Paul Schmitmeyer > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas M. Hinds > To: Phil Gillman ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > > Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: Raw Milk CSA's > > > > >The "shareholders" will have to agree that the milk is not for human > consumption, in order to relieve the producer / distributor from liability. > That way, the subscriber would be responsable for any other use. > > > >>i've never know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, > > > >Unfortunately, I've known plenty who have and some died from it. The > important thing is to be sure the cows are free from TB (Brucellosis too, > although it's rarely lethal), and that handling avoids contamination from > salmonella and listeria etc. > > > >DH > > > > > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > > >On 21/05/99 at 10:39 AM Phil Gillman wrote: > > > >>You know, perhaps this would not be considered "selling" the milk if you > >>word the CSA contract well- After all, the members are "shareholders", > >>and the milk is their "dividend" > >> > >>No need for special "raw milk licencing" (which you may not need in VT > >>any way) > >> > >>BUT, be sure to Include and indemnity from liability in the CSA > >>contract, You know, make everyone aware that they are choosing to drink > >>raw milk and that there may be some risks involved (although i've never > >>know anyone who got sick from fresh milk, and i've been drinking it all > >>my life- ;-) > >> > >>Best of luck- > >>Phil Gillman > >>pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org > >> > >> > >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 08:46:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA10608 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA10782 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:44:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10687 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 07:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with ESMTP id <01JBN02PHY1Q001GH3@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 26 May 1999 03:28:38 PDT Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 26 May 1999 03:34:38 -0700 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 03:30:39 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: organic research in Scotland To: "'wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D805C@10.248.cabi.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1057 The Scottish Agricultural College has a strong organic program. Their web site is http://www.sac.ac.uk/cropsci/external/organic/default.htm Anton Doroszenko CAB International > -----Original Message----- > From: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz [SMTP:wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz] > Sent: 26 May 1999 01:26 > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: organic research in Scotland > > Hi - does anyone know of any Scottish organisation conducting > research into organics? Apparently, Sainsbury are partially funding > this.... > > Your help is much appreciated. > > Kind Regards > Samira > > > Samira Wohlfart > Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) > PO Box 8640 > Christchurch > New Zealand > Ph: +64 3 348-0979 > Fax: +64 3 348-1867 > Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz > Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 09:39:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11547 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11319 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:39:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web602.mail.yahoo.com (web602.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11313 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990526124027.2879.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web602.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 26 May 1999 05:40:27 PDT Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 05:40:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: request for composter information To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1058 Hello Everyone, Does anyone out there have any suggestions for a composter that fits a small city lot? I do not have much space or extra cash. There are houses close on all sides so I have to be careful with smell and appearance for my neighbor's sake. Any ideas? Thanks in advance, Kate, Philadelphia PA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 09:42:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA11593 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11096 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:37:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11069 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:41:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: New Organic Wheat Production Handbook available Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:41:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1059 Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 12:07 AM To: Andy Clark Subject: New Organic Wheat Production Handbook available Dear Andy, Can you post this announcement to sanet? Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ New Organic Wheat Production Handbook available The Organic Wheat Production Handbook, funded in part by WSARE, provides practical information for growing high quality organic wheat. Each section addresses specific management issues such as: * Planting Practices * Growth and Development * Nutrient Management * Grain Protein Content and Nitrogen * Irrigation Management * Harvest Suggestions The handbook was compiled from the best information available on organic agriculture and wheat production. While the handbook was written for New Mexico farmers, most of the information is relevant for organic wheat production throughout the United States. Softcover: 8.5' X 11" Spiral bound. 60 pages. Publication cost: FREE Copy costs, shipping and handling: $10.00* Send checks payable to: Kernel of Life c/o Organic Wheat Production Handbook 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 * Note: This is a small non-profit project. The publication is free, but copying, shipping and handling charges reflect actual costs. Expect 2 weeks for shipping, unless other arrangements are requested. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ ORDER FORM: Organic Wheat Production Handbook Ship to: Name___________________________________________________________ Company________________________________________________________ Address________________________________________________________ City_______________________________ State/Province____________ Zip__________________ Country _______________________________ Phone____________________________ Fax__________________________ ------------------------------------------------ | | | | Total | | | Qty | Cost | Amount | |-----------------------------------------------| | | | | | |Handbook: |____ | $ 0.00 ea |$_______ | | | | | | |Copying, S & H: |____ | $10.00 ea |$_______ | | --------------------| | |Total Amount Enclosed |$_______ | | | ------------------------------------------------- Make checks payable to: Kernel of Life c/o Organic Wheat Production Handbook 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 10:55:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13356 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA23122 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA23118 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 09:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 26 May 1999 10:49:23 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:49:23 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, mmiller@pcsia.com Subject: Re: ISU Butterfly info Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1060 This seems to me to be just like the pesticide spray drift problem -- except that it targets lepidopterans. Actually, all this shouldn't come as much of a surprise given that corn has been engineered to overexpress Bt toxins in hopes of getting a really good "kill" and fending off resistance development. Of course, when resistance does finally appear, it will likley be pretty robust resistance. Meanwhile, any lepidopteran (the obscure, unpopular ones as well as the big, flashy ones) that munches on Bt corn ears, leaves, roots, pollen or wherever the gene is expressed -- runs the risk of dying. Unless the GE folks find a way of limiting expression to the tissue that they want to protect, pollen mobility will continue to act like spray drift BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 12:09:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15064 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08586 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.2.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08548 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.2.16]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00232 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncc.uky.edu.uky.edu ([128.163.196.145]) by pop.uky.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA24631 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990526111137.006aaeb4@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: toria@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:11:37 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Victoria Mundy Subject: controlled microbial composting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1061 Hello everyone, Has anyone gone through the Luebke's Controlled Microbial Composting workshop? I recently visited with a woman who had, and she mentioned that with the CMC method compost is turned when the temperature falls below ____ and the CO2 level rises above ____ but I'm so stupid I didn't write down what she said! Does anyone know? Thank you, Victoria ************************************* Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy N106R Ag. Sci. North, UK Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 12:16:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15257 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20717 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:35:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20674 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.114] (pa-ppp29.hevanet.com [204.119.60.114]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA20053; Wed, 26 May 1999 08:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905261535.IAA20053@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:38:37 -0700 Subject: FW: Plants with Allergen-Free Latex From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , New Crops Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA20675 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1062 FYI only - nothing else meant or implied. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Plants with Allergen-Free Latex Date: Wed, May 26, 1999, 6:29 AM STORY LEAD: Plants with Allergen-Free Latex Now Easier to Genetically Engineer ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 26, 1999 Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Guayule, a shrub that yields high-quality, hypoallergenic natural latex, is now easier to genetically engineer, thanks to Agricultural Research Service scientists. Native to Texas, guayule (pronounced why-YOU-lee) can be processed to yield a milky latex that is free of allergens that can cause severe reactions including anaphylactic shock. An estimated 20 million Americans are allergic to the latex in gloves, condoms and other products made from the most widely used source, the Brazilian rubber tree. ARS plant physiologist Katrina Cornish leads the guayule research at the ARS Western Regional Research Center in Albany, Calif. Cornish, along with Christopher J.D. Mau and Mary H. Chapman at Albany, and former Albany researcher Javier Castilln, developed a faster, easier way to move new genes into guayule. Their work opens the way to giving tomorrow's guayule new genes that could boost production of latex, or enhance resistance to a root rot that can attack this otherwise disease-resistant shrub. The scientists' procedure, patterned after one widely used by researchers elsewhere with other plant species, relies on bathing pieces of guayule leaves in a solution containing a re-worked form of a microbe, Agrobacterium tumefaciens. The microbe, with the experimental genes inside, can slip genes into guayule cells. The leaf pieces are then nurtured to form plantlets. Cornish's team is apparently the first to use this approach successfully with guayule. An article in the current issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine tells more. View it on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/rubb0599.htm ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Katrina Cornish, ARS Western Regional Research Center, Albany, Calif., phone (510) 559-5950, fax (510) 559-5777, kcornish@pw.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 13:53:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18093 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA10650 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:57:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10639 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id LAA224238 (8.9.1/50); Wed, 26 May 1999 11:57:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990519034158.0072fa20@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 03:41:58 -0500 To: citnet-list@igc.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: health/toxics symposium Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1063 +++ Apologies for cross-postings +++ >>Subject: Developmental Toxicology Symposium, June 3-5 >>SYMPOSIUM PROBES IMPACT OF TOXINS ON DEVELOPMENT >> >>A symposium June 3-5 at the University of Wisconsin-Madison will >>explore new research on the links between environmental toxins and disease, >>including birth defects and cancer. >> >>"Horizons in Developmental Toxicology and Developmental Biology" will be >>held at the State Historical Society on Library Mall. Topics include how >>chemicals can cause toxic changes, why infants and children are most >>vulnerable, and why early exposure presents increased risk of later >>diseases such as cancer. Time will be set aside to discuss specific >>community concerns and priorities. >> >>The meeting will also feature a public forum on lessons learned about the >>effects of chemicals on human health. The discussion, scheduled for 1:30 >>p.m. Saturday, June 5, will be led by Thomas Zinnen of the Biotechnology >>Center and Kevin Niemi of the Center for Biology Education. >> >>The symposium overall features research on developmental deficiencies that >>have environmental causes and on new genetic models that reveal the >>mechanics of development. Prominent symposium speakers include 1972 Nobel >>Prize-winner Gerald Edelman of Scripps Research Institute. He will speak at >>7:15 p.m. Thursday, June 3, about topobiology, or an exploration of why >>genes are expressed in some places but not in others. >> >>Kathy Sulik, a professor at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, >>will speak at 8:45 a.m. Friday on "Birth Defects Research: A Path to >>Prevention." She will begin a morning of research talks about >>chemically-induced birth defects in children. >> >>The symposium is organized by the new UW-Madison Environmental Health >>Sciences Center and is funded by a grant from the National Institute for >>Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS). It is the first national event >>sponsored by the new UW center, directed by pharmacy professor Colin >>Jefcoate. >> >>"In the past five to 10 years, there has been an explosion of work in >>developmental biology," Jefcoate said. "We want to close the gap between >>the study of animal models and potential human health impacts." >> >>For more information on the symposium, contact Jefcoate, (608) 263-5557; or >>on the Saturday public forum, contact Zinnen, (608) 265-2420. >> >># # # Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 14:42:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19242 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA11997 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:52:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA11907 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 13:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id MAA09904; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:51:59 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma009550; Wed, 26 May 99 12:51:40 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 26 May 1999 12:51:40 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD55@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Butterfly mortality Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:51:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1064 I thought you all might like to see a picture of the pollen-coated leaves that Losey, et.al used to get the results described in their letter published in Nature. http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/1999/05/052099/monarch_3296.asp Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 15:47:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20613 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA18231 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18184 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 14:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-7.ofrf.org (dyn-209-66-100-130.scrz.got.net [209.66.100.130]) by always.got.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA49254; Wed, 26 May 1999 11:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990526093929.00a32b3c@mail.got.net> X-Sender: research@mail.got.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:57:58 -0700 To: fiskjohn@pilot.msu.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: Re: linking consumer health and production methods Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA18196 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1065 Hi John, Here is a short bibliography on the general topic of crop nutritional values as a function of organic management. This list was compiled by Rebecca King, OFRF Office Manager. I'm not sure how these break down into your three categories. Looking forward to what you can collect. Mark Lipson OFRF Bibliography: Anon. 1988. The value of organic food. The Living Earth. July-September. p. 16-17. Anon. 1992. Towards a new definition of food quality. NOFA-NY News. January/February. p.3 &6. Ausebel, Kenny. 1994. Seeds of Change: The Living Treasure. HarperSanFrancisco, San Francisco, CA 232p. Beddoe, A. F. 1992. Nourishment Home Grown. Agro-Bio Systems, Grass Valley, CA 299p. Clancy, Katherine L. 1986. The role of sustainable agriculture in improving the safety and quality of the food supply. American Journal of Alternative Agriculture. Winter. P. 11-18. Comis, Don. 1989. Nitrogen overload may shrivel vitamin content. Agricultural Research. July. P.10-11 Eggert, F. P. 1983. Effect of soil management practices on yield and foliar nutrient concentration of dry beans, carrots, and tomatoes. Pl. 247-259 In: Lockeretz, W. (ed.) Environmentally Sound Agriculture. Praeger Scientific, NY. Feenstra, Gail. 1992. Vitamin and mineral contents of carrot and celeriac grown under mineral or organic fertilization. Components. Vol. 3, No. 1 p. 9-10. Review of Leclerc, J. et al. 1991. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture, Vol. 7 p. 339-348. Fischer, Ada, and C.H. Richter. 1986. Influence of organic and mineral fertilizers on yield and quality of potatoes. P. 236-248. In: The Importance of Biological Agriculture in a World of Diminishing Resources. Proceeding of the 5th IFOAM International Scientific Conference at the University of Kassel (Germany). Hood, Sam. 1993. Exhausted soil produces exhausted people. Acres, USA. June p.30 &39. Hornick, Sharon B. 1992. Factors affecting the nutritional quality of crops. American Journal of Alternative Agriculture. Vol.7, No.1-2. P.63-68. Howard, Sir Albert. 1947. The Soil and Health. The Devin-Adair Co., New York. 307 p. Kenton, Leslie. 1988. Eat organic, and live well. The Secrets of Ecological Agriculture. The Living Earth. July-September. P.17-18. Knorr, Dietrich. 1982. Natural and organic foods: definitions, quality and problems. Cereal Foods World. Vol. 27, No.4. p. 163-168. Knorr, Dietrich. 1982. Use of a circular chromatographic method for the distinction of collard plants grown under different fertilizing conditions. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. Vol.1. p.29-38. Knorr, Dietrich, and Harmut Vogtmann. 1983. Quality of and quality determination of ecologically grown foods. P.352-381. In: Knorr, Dietrich (ed.) Sustainable Food Systems. The AVI Publishing Co., Westport, CT. Lairon, D. et al. 1986. Effects of organic and mineral fertilizations on the contents of vegetables in minerals, vitamin C, and nitrates. P. 249-260. In: The Importance of Biological Agriculture in a World of Diminishing Resources. Proceeding of the 5th IFOAM International Scientific Conference at the University of Kassel (Germany). Lampkin, Nicolas. 1990. Organic Farming. Farming Press, Ipswich, United Kingdom. p.557-573, and 608-610. Lockeretz, William. (ed.) 1997. Conference Proceedings: Agricultural Production and Nutrition. Tufts University School of Nutrition Science and Policy, Medford, MA. Maga, Joseph A. 1983. Organically grown foods. P.305-349. In: Knorr, Dietrich (ed.) Sustainable Food Systems. The AVI Publishing Co., Westport, CT. McSheelhy, T.W. 1977. Nutritive value of wheat grown under organic and chemical systems of farming. Qualitas Planatarum - Plant Foods for Human Nutrition. Vol. 27. P.113-123. Peavy, William S., and Warren Peary. 1993. Super Nutrition Gardening. Avery Publishing Co., Garden City, NY 236p. Plochberger, K. 1989. Feeding experiments. A criterion for quality estimation of biologically and conventionally produced foods. Agriculture, Ecosystems, and Environment. Vol. 27. P.419- 428. Schupman, W. 1975. Yield maximisation versus biological value. Qualitas Planatarum - Plant Food for Human Nutrition. Vol. 27. P.281-310. Shier, N.W. et al. 1984. A comparison of crude protein, moisture, ash and crop yield between organic and conventionally grown wheat. Nutrition Reports International. Vol.30, No.1. p.71-77. Velimirov, A. et al. 1992. The influence of biologically and conventionally cultivated food on the fertility of rats. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. Vo..8. p.325-337. NOTE: A familiar citing on the issue of the nutritional content of organically versus conventionally produced food is the 1948 Rutgers University report "Variation in Mineral Content in Vegetables" by Firman E. Bear published in the Proceedings of the Soil Science Society of America. However, this study did not investigate organic versus commercial produce. The tables were mis-printed to read as organic versus non-organic and for years it has circulated as fact. The study examined the mineral composition of vegetables grown on different soil types. They found that vegetables grown on heavy soils in the Ohio Valley had a greater mineral content than produce grown on sandy Coastal Plain soils near the East Coast. These results are important because they show that soil typeand probably soil organic matter contentaffect the mineral composition of foods grown on them. However, there are many environmental and cultural factors that influence the nutritional composition of produce and these may ultimately play a greater role in food quality the simple organic versus conventional logic. Source: e-mail from steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu (Steve Diver, Fayetteville, AR), May 1, 1996. At 02:06 PM 5/25/99 -0400, John Fisk wrote: >Saneters: > >I have an opportunity to make an impact upon a set of decision makers that >could result in greater opportunities and funding for sustainable >agriculture and food systems. I would very much appreciate any bit of >assitance you would offer. > >I am looking for research results that demonstate the effect of food >production methods (animal hormones, pesticides, GMO's, feed lots, storage, >food transport) on food quality and diet and health of consumers. I >prefer jounal articles, symposia proceedings, government reports, or NGO >research reports. References to very good news paper articles or magazine >stories may also be helpful. > >An example might be studies done that confirm increased occurence of food >allergies stemming from gmo's. Another may be levels of toxic pesticide >residues on food and its effect on children and adults. > >I realize that not a lot of research has been done that makes the >connection between food production methods and consumer health, however, >this is the type of information I need. > >If you know of 1, 2 or 3 references please email me directly >(fiskjohn@pilot.msu.edu). I will gather up the responses and post them to >SANET for the benefit of all. This is the type of info we need to >influence policy and reseach agendas. > >I appreciate your time and effort. > >John Fisk > > > > > >John Fisk >Research Associate >Michigan State University >Crop and Soil Science Dept. >East Lansing, MI 48824 >(517) 355-2312 >fiskjohn@pilot.msu.edu > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 17:24:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24000 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 17:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA20504 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:40:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA20492 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 16:40:24 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 8625677D.00714C4E; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:37:31 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 8625677D.0071C112 ; Wed, 26 May 1999 15:42:29 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: ncrsare@unl.edu, pdpstco@unl.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu, foodnet@lists.tmn.com, ncrsarenews@unl.edu cc: Mary.Hanks@state.mn.us, jjost@idir.net, TGRAF2@unl.edu Message-ID: <8625677D.0071C0CD.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:42:28 -0500 Subject: NCR SARE Marketing Conference Announcement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=v4oa9npkkAvtKqB7mMxLxc6zE8xiqQELnwvRiFhGMdjRm4wf6S1q6RJ6" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1066 --0__=v4oa9npkkAvtKqB7mMxLxc6zE8xiqQELnwvRiFhGMdjRm4wf6S1q6RJ6 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline **** C O N F E R E N C E A N N O U N C E M E N T **** For more information, CONTACT: Lisa Bauer, NCR SARE Communications Specialist, 402-472-0265, lbauer2@unl.edu, or see http://www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare North Central Region SARE --0__=v4oa9npkkAvtKqB7mMxLxc6zE8xiqQELnwvRiFhGMdjRm4wf6S1q6RJ6 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ?s Marketing Conference: Developing Alternative Agricultural Marketing Skills for the New Millen= nium Lincoln, NE -- As corporate concentration, global economics, and falter= ing markets have presented producers with a pessimistic vision for the futu= re of family farms, the North Central Region (NCR) Sustainable Agriculture Re= search and Education (SARE) program is offering hope through a hands-on, alter= native marketing conference, to be held on November 19-20, 1999, in Lincoln, N= ebraska. The conference will help farmers and ranchers develop skills and suppor= tive relationships that will allow them to create and sustain successful new= marketing ventures. Producers, educators, nonprofit groups, retail and wholesale food representatives, food processors, restauranteurs, and general consumers= will share information on making more direct connections between farm gates = and dinner plates to support healthier people, farms and communities. "The North Central SARE program has made concerted efforts to promote c= ommunity connections necessary for integrated local food systems," said Jim Good= man, farmer, NCR SARE administrative council member and conference planner. = "This conference is not only a culmination of NCR SARE?s efforts to this poin= t, but also an event that we hope will catalyze community food initiatives reg= ion wide." On Friday, Nov. 19, participants are invited to listen to and ask quest= ions of NCR SARE marketing project coordinators in a panel discussion. After a = "locally grown" dinner and entertainment from folk singer Ann Zimmerman, partici= pants can visit poster sessions and displays and talk one-on-one with project coordinators. Saturday, Nov. 20, will feature two keynote speakers: Kansas rancher Di= ana Endicott, who direct markets her cooperatively produced "natural beef" = to Kansas City grocery stores; and Wisconsin farmer Richard DeWilde, who sells horticultural products through community-supported agriculture, farmers= ' markets, and other high-value, innovative marketing avenues. The conference's second day will also showcase innovative alternative m= arketing strategies through workshops and poster and display sessions. Farmers, researchers, representatives of the retail food sector, and other "expe= rts" will direct workshops on topics such as business planning for successful mar= keting, market research, working cooperatively with other farmers, educating co= nsumers about agriculture, selling directly to retail food markets, on-farm pro= cessing, value-added agriculture, marketing meat products, and legal issues in d= irect marketing, among others. Conference participants will receive a soon-to-be-published and much-an= ticipated legal guide for direct farm marketing and a marketing resource notebook= with registration. The author of the legal guide, Neil Hamilton, will also c= onduct a workshop on legal issues in direct marketing. "We want farmers and ranchers to learn and share marketing skills at th= is conference," Goodman said. "But we also want to build bridges between t= hose producing products in sustainable agricultural systems and those people= and businesses interested in using the products. This results in higher pro= fits for farmers and a healthier food system." A call for exhibitors will be issued in late June, with registration ma= terials available in late summer. NCR SARE is offering co-sponsorship opportuni= ties for organizations or businesses. A limited number of travel scholarships wi= ll be available for farmers. Contact Lisa Bauer at 402-472-0265 or lbauer2@unl.edu to inquire about co-sponsorship, to put your name on a mailing list to receive registrat= ion information, or to offer suggestions on building this educational exper= ience. Updated conference information, including registration forms, will be a= vailable at http://www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare. The conference planning committee includes: John Allen, University of N= ebraska; Molly Bartlett, Ohio farmer; Jim Goodman, Wisconsin farmer; Mary Hanks,= Minnesota Department of Agriculture Sustainable Agriculture Program; Je= rry Jost, Kansas Rural Center; Ron Macher, Small Farm Today editor and farmer; Fr= ed Madison, Wisconsin Natural History Survey/University of Wisconsin; and = Lisa Bauer, NCR SARE. SARE, which works to increase knowledge about -- and help farmers and r= anchers adopt -- sustainable farming practices and systems, oversees a competit= ive grants program that has funded 1,400 projects nationwide since 1988. Th= e national SARE program in Washington, D.C., is co-sponsor of the marketi= ng conference. North Central Region SARE -- including Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas,= Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dako= ta and Wisconsin -- has funded more than $13 million-worth of projects, includ= ing more than 40 projects focusing on marketing issues. In 1995, NCR SARE began = a quest to learn more about and help farmers? overcome obstacles to successful alternative marketing. A NCR SARE Marketing Committee met with producer= s and developed a special call for marketing projects. This committee also ca= talyzed funding of a national marketing curriculum, which will be featured at t= he marketing conference. ### Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) lbauer2@unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare = --0__=v4oa9npkkAvtKqB7mMxLxc6zE8xiqQELnwvRiFhGMdjRm4wf6S1q6RJ6-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 19:50:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA26784 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02528 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:16:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02437 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d48-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.48]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA12110; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:15:32 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Roberto Verzola" , Subject: RE: Chili Concentrate Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:17:28 +1000 Message-ID: <000c01bea7cd$ec216b60$303325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <199905261023.SAA01937@phil.gn.apc.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1067 I have in the past combined chili, pepper, garlic, clay, without real benefit, until I added a very small amount of borax, in the opinion of an entomologist scarcely enough to annoy ants working aphids. But the addition of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron deficiency, quite likely in our wet environment. I tend to come back to suspecting soil deficiency as main attractant for bugs, and the need to work on nutrition while getting rid of the immediate problem. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed May 26 21:50:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28795 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 21:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA02590 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:44:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA02520 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA09007 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 20:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA20692 for ; Wed, 26 May 1999 19:44:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199905270044.TAA20692@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:44:09 -0500 Subject: Re: request for composter information In-reply-to: <19990526124027.2879.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1068 Howdy, all-- Kate Smith wrote: > Does anyone out there have any suggestions for a composter > that fits a small city lot? I do not have much space or > extra cash. There are houses close on all sides so I have > to be careful with smell and appearance for my neighbor's > sake. Any ideas? Check out the funky folks at Gardener's Supply Company in Burlington, VT: http://www.gardeners.com/index.html Go to the COMPOSTING part of their site. GSC has a few compost thangs, including a few small, beautifully designed composters priced at around $100. They pay for themselves quickly, and look spiffy. Or you can build one--check out Jerry Minnich's and Marjorie Hunt's "Rodale Guide to Composting." I seem to recall a mess of plans/suggestions for how to build low-cost composters that city varmints can't colonize. Better yet, GSC is about a 9-hour drive from where I-95 passes Newmarket/Head House Square. Take a nice long summer weekend and drive on up. :^) peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 09:09:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06636 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA23028 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA22929 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 27 May 1999 07:21:00 -0500 Message-ID: <199905270719170970.0898BDB1@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <000c01bea7cd$ec216b60$303325cb@p2> References: <000c01bea7cd$ec216b60$303325cb@p2> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:19:17 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Argall Family" , "Roberto Verzola" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Chili Concentrate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id IAA22934 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1069 Hello, >the addition of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron >deficiency, ...as main attractant for bugs You are implying that the neither the Hot Chili Pepper nor the Garlic present in the solution applied were significant contributing factors to the aphids' disappearance? It would be interesting (and important) to verify this by doing another series of tests with more controls. What are the possibilities of doing that on your end (in deference to the antecedents you already have behind you)? Or perhaps there are others receiving this that may be better positioned to do this sooner. A soil analysis to determine the existence of a boron (or other micronutrient) deficiency would also help correlate your supposition (which I have no quarrel with - my interest is in corroborating it). D H *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27/05/99 at 9:17 AM Argall Family wrote: >I have in the past combined chili, pepper, garlic, clay, without real >benefit, until I added a very small amount of borax, in the opinion of an >entomologist scarcely enough to annoy ants working aphids. But the addition >of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron >deficiency, quite likely in our wet environment. I tend to come back to >suspecting soil deficiency as main attractant for bugs, and the need to work >on nutrition while getting rid of the immediate problem. > >Dennis > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 09:49:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07617 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11094 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:50:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11070 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 08:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990527125212.19298.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 27 May 1999 05:52:12 PDT Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 05:52:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: thanks for composter info To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1070 Good Morning, Thanks to everyone that responded to my query about composters for small city lots. The responses that came from all over the world leave me in wonderment at the power of SANET and e-communication. After following several website leads, receiving good advice on smells, and considering the do-it-myself projects suggested, I'm going to try the Hi-Rise Garden Composter for $69.95 with a 2' x 2' footprint that holds 7.7 cu. ft. of compost. It is sold through gardeners.com. happy composting and thanks again, kate in Philadelphia _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 11:10:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10949 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07743 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:28:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mx01.together.net (mx01.together.net [204.97.120.61]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07723 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoo.uvm.edu (dial-203-btvt.udial.together.net [209.91.1.143]) by mx01.together.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01061; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:28:20 -0400 Message-ID: <374D6409.E2661A60@zoo.uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:26:01 -0500 From: Fred Magdoff Reply-To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas M. Hinds" CC: Argall Family , Roberto Verzola , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Chili Concentrate and borax References: <000c01bea7cd$ec216b60$303325cb@p2> <199905270719170970.0898BDB1@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1071 Hi, Keep in mind that borax is an insecticide and is used for roach control in urban settings. Not sure of its mode of action, nor how broadly it is toxic. FRED Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > Hello, > > >the addition of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron > >deficiency, ...as main attractant for bugs > > You are implying that the neither the Hot Chili Pepper nor the Garlic present in the solution applied were significant contributing factors to the aphids' disappearance? It would be interesting (and important) to verify this by doing another series of tests with more controls. What are the possibilities of doing that on your end (in deference to the antecedents you already have behind you)? Or perhaps there are others receiving this that may be better positioned to do this sooner. A soil analysis to determine the existence of a boron (or other micronutrient) deficiency would also help correlate your supposition (which I have no quarrel with - my interest is in corroborating it). > > D H > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 27/05/99 at 9:17 AM Argall Family wrote: > > >I have in the past combined chili, pepper, garlic, clay, without real > >benefit, until I added a very small amount of borax, in the opinion of an > >entomologist scarcely enough to annoy ants working aphids. But the addition > >of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron > >deficiency, quite likely in our wet environment. I tend to come back to > >suspecting soil deficiency as main attractant for bugs, and the need to work > >on nutrition while getting rid of the immediate problem. > > > >Dennis > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > Douglas M. Hinds > Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) > (Center for Community and Rural Development) > Petronilo Lopez No. 73 > Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO > e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 11:28:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11560 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16973 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:43:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16962 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:43:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id JAA47440 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 27 May 1999 09:43:05 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990519085328.006f6534@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:53:28 -0500 To: ecomda@danenet.wicip.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, wrdc@execpc.com, jimarts@aol.com, banner@dnr.state.wi.us, aburgess@facstaff.wisc.edu, lconley@mixcom.com, ccowgill@msn.com, tdawson@itis.com, audubon@msn.fullfeed.com, greenlea@mfldclin.edu, rghennin@facstaff.wisc.edu, dsjaffee@facstaff.wisc.edu, mkrome@inxpress.net, mcavoy@sschc.org, mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu, cbesmudd@igc.org, pporter@itis.com, wrdc@execpc.com, kpschmid@facstaff.wisc.edu, wi_pres@pta.org, cterrell@execpc.com, sventura@macc.wisc.edu, lwessel@itis.com, kriswick@itis.com From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Pediatric Health & Toxins Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1072 Another piece on toxicity & health from the CITnet listserve. m3 >> ENVIRONMENTAL CAUSES OF DEVELOPMENTAL >> DISORDERS EXPLORED >> >> NEW YORK - Developmental disorders such as >> autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and >> mental retardation may be more preventable once >> more research on the role of environmental toxin >> exposure in neurological disorders is conducted, >> speakers said at a Manhattan conference. >> >> While lead, PCBs, mercury and certain pesticides are >> known to cause a percentage of developmental >> disorders, research on how other toxic chemicals >> may affect children's neurological development >> remains to be done, according to Dr. Philip J. >> Landrigan, Director of the Center for Children's Health >> and the Environment at Mount Sinai School of >> Medicine, New York, the conference sponsor. >> >> "I am distressed over the fact that we know the >> causes of only a fraction of these developmental >> disorders, that 70% to 75% of them have no known >> cause. If we don't know the cause, we don't have hope >> of doing anything sensible," Dr. Landrigan said. >> >> Fewer than 20% of the approximately 75,000 >> chemicals manufactured in the last 50 years have >> been evaluated for potential neurotoxicity, according >> to a press release issued by the Center for Children's >> Health and Environment. >> >> One reason so many gaps exist in current knowledge >> about the impact of environmental toxin exposure on >> neurological function is the "...difficulty documenting >> the exposures," conference speaker Dr. Ruth A. Etzel >> of the American Academy of Pediatrics told Reuters >> Health. >> >> "We live in sort of a chemical soup where each day, >> every one of us has hundreds of some high, some low >> exposures. The kinds of effects they can have on the >> nervous system are often quite subtle and therefore >> very difficult to study," Dr. Etzel said. >> >> "We might recognize a child, for example, with severe >> mercury poisoning, but we might not recognize slight >> mercury poisoning because that might result in such >> subtle neurologic deficits that...it might look like it's in >> the normal range," Dr. Etzel added. >> >> Until more evidence is available on the impact of >> environmental toxins, Dr. Etzel urges parents and >> pediatricians "...to be observers of the environment in >> which children live." >> >> "Some of the most important discoveries about >> environmental hazards have come from pediatricians >> who notice something unusual in their practice," she >> noted, "...either a cluster of unusual diseases that >> occurs in a neighborhood, or perhaps an unusual >> exposure that alerts them to something that might be >> going on." >> >> The conference is scheduled to end on Tuesday with >> the development of "...a national research agenda and >> recommendations for protecting children from >> pollutants that affect neurological development and >> behavior." >> >> (c) Reuters Limited 1999. > >** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, >this material is distributed without profit to those who >have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included >information for research and educational purposes. ** > Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 11:28:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11575 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17833 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:45:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hamp.hampshire.edu (ednS94@hamp.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.137]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17794 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ednS94@localhost) by hamp.hampshire.edu (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11244 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:52:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric D Nash Reply-To: Eric D Nash To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: re: raw milk CSAs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1073 Disclaimer: I love raw milk, and would drink it if I could get it. Having said that.... RABIES, BOVINE - USA (OREGON) ***************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:37:14 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: News media (edited) When a cow in Southern Oregon's Curry County started attacking other cattle and charging farm vehicles, a local rancher knew something was wrong. He turned to Oregon State University's College of Veterinary Medicine, where doctors made a surprising discovery. According to their records, it was the only cow in state history to be diagnosed with rabies. "It sounded suspicious," said Dr. Jerry Heidel, the veterinarian who handled the case. "So we asked them to submit the brain of the animal, and from that it was determined it was rabid." Rabies is extremely rare in Oregon, and even when it does strike, it usually affects bats and foxes -- almost never household pets, let alone farm animals. Of the 380 suspected rabies cases Heidel investigated last year, only 17 -- mostly bats -- actually had the disease. Some of the classic signs of rabies include aggression, drooling, twitching, paralysis, bellowing and sexual excitement. "A cow won't probably bite," Heidel said. "But it will attack you, butt you and run you over." The only way to tell for sure if an animal has rabies is to kill it and conduct an necropsy. Heidel suspects the Curry County cow contracted the disease after it was bitten by a rabid bat or fox. The farmer, who stuck his hand in the cow's mouth while examining it, will likely submit to a series of painful rabies vaccinations so he won't get the disease. "Rabies isn't that common in this part of the country, and people are sometimes too complacent," Heidel said. "But you should always keep it in the back of your mind that rabies is a possibility." -- ProMED-mail e-mail: promed@usa.healthnet.org [Veterinarians and producers/farmers are some most at risk from rabies in cows. This is primarily because the drooling and head shaking are the same signs that occur when the animal has a thorn or twig lodged in its throat. Consequently, the hand goes down the mouth to try and remove the source of the animal's problem. Generally, the bellowing, sometimes described as "out of a horror movie", has made shivers crawl down spines, including mine. - Mod.TG] .....................tg/es To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 11:43:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12318 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27357 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:00:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27343 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07093 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id LAA26832 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <374D5EB8.68BD859E@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:03:20 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Chili Concentrate and borax References: <000c01bea7cd$ec216b60$303325cb@p2> <199905270719170970.0898BDB1@acnet.net> <374D6409.E2661A60@zoo.uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1074 Boric Acid is considered a insect irritant. . . I don't know if borax has the same interaction. (Supposedly, the boric acid crystals get between the exoskeleton and underlying tissue, and drives the bugs wild. . .) Just my two cents. . .Russ Fred Magdoff wrote: > Hi, > Keep in mind that borax is an insecticide and is used for roach control in urban settings. Not sure of its mode of action, nor how broadly it is toxic. > > FRED > > Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > >the addition of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron > > >deficiency, ...as main attractant for bugs > > > > You are implying that the neither the Hot Chili Pepper nor the Garlic present in the solution applied were significant contributing factors to the aphids' disappearance? It would be interesting (and important) to verify this by doing another series of tests with more controls. What are the possibilities of doing that on your end (in deference to the antecedents you already have behind you)? Or perhaps there are others receiving this that may be better positioned to do this sooner. A soil analysis to determine the existence of a boron (or other micronutrient) deficiency would also help correlate your supposition (which I have no quarrel with - my interest is in corroborating it). > > > > D H > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > > > On 27/05/99 at 9:17 AM Argall Family wrote: > > > > >I have in the past combined chili, pepper, garlic, clay, without real > > >benefit, until I added a very small amount of borax, in the opinion of an > > >entomologist scarcely enough to annoy ants working aphids. But the addition > > >of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron > > >deficiency, quite likely in our wet environment. I tend to come back to > > >suspecting soil deficiency as main attractant for bugs, and the need to work > > >on nutrition while getting rid of the immediate problem. > > > > > >Dennis > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > Douglas M. Hinds > > Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) > > (Center for Community and Rural Development) > > Petronilo Lopez No. 73 > > Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO > > e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 13:16:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16097 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA23915 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:34:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23848 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.98] (pa-ppp13.hevanet.com [204.119.60.98]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24548; Thu, 27 May 1999 09:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905271634.JAA24548@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:23:54 -0700 Subject: FW: "Waste" Gypsum Could Help Boost Crop Yields From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1075 FYI ONLY! Not iintended as a comment from, or a relfection of the opinions/ideas of the person forwarding the item. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: "Waste" Gypsum Could Help Boost Crop Yields Date: Thu, May 27, 1999, 6:49 AM STORY LEAD: "Waste" Gypsum Could Help Boost Crop Yields ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA May 27, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Instead of going to a landfill, gypsum from electric power plant smokestacks can be sold to farmers to raise corn and soybean yields while protecting soil from erosion. The tactic is still in the research stage, but it's being applied on hundreds of thousands of acres in Indiana and Illinois, according to soil scientist Darrell Norton at the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency. Norton is scheduled to present his research findings today at the 10th International Soil Conservation Organization Conference, held May 23-28 in West Lafayette, Ind. The conference theme is "Sustaining the Global Farm: Local Action for Land Stewardship." Norton has shown that gypsum "waste" from power plants helps soil hold more water, by preventing soil from crusting so more rainwater enters the soil instead of running off the field. In the past, gypsum from quarries has been used to loosen soil, to treat soils high in sodium or toxic aluminum, and to fertilize soils deficient in calcium or sulfur, according to Norton. Norton leads ARS' National Soil Erosion Research Laboratory in West Lafayette. The laboratory is co-hosting the conference along with Purdue University and USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service. Ralph Woodward, a corn and soybean farmer who works with Norton, farms in an area where most soils are low in calcium and sulfur. The discovery of soil and water benefits from gypsum from power plants is icing on the cake. Woodward believes these benefits will increase over time and show significant yield increases. He believes so strongly in the potential economic and environmental benefits of power plant gypsum that he has a Purdue graduate student doing gypsum research on his farm, in cooperation with Norton and the Indianapolis Power and Light Company. Ken Curtis, of Prairie City, Illinois, another farmer who works with Norton, also runs a business applying power plant gypsum on other farmers' fields. Trucks that used to return from the grain elevator empty now return full of gypsum. Since the Clean Air Act of 1990 and subsequent revisions, scrubbers added to power plant smokestacks are generating increasing amounts of gypsum. ---------- Scientific contact: Darrell Norton, ARS National Soil Erosion Research Laboratory, West Lafayette, Ind., phone (765) 494-8673, fax (765) 494-5948, nortond@ecn.purdue.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 13:22:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16266 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA28192 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:40:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28115 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 27 May 1999 11:40:23 -0500 Message-ID: <199905271138170270.00A8006E@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <374D5EB8.68BD859E@unity.ncsu.edu> References: <000c01bea7cd$ec216b60$303325cb@p2> <199905270719170970.0898BDB1@acnet.net> <374D6409.E2661A60@zoo.uvm.edu> <374D5EB8.68BD859E@unity.ncsu.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:38:17 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Russ Bulluck" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Chili Concentrate and borax Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA28129 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1076 As with diatomaceous earth, the action is physical. The dry particles' speculated edges cut through the exoskeleton and the dry material absorbs the insects body fluids, dessecating it. When used as it was, as an ingredient in a liquid solution, the above action would not be present. This suggests some other mechanism was at work. No soil analysis was done, so the boron as a missing micronutrient factor remains a question mark. My purpose was to call for a complete series of tests. The concept raised is of interest. And while these discussions can help point the way to a valid test plot series design, it will have to be done in the earth, rather than in cyberspace. The variables discussed were: Garlic, hot chile pepper, and the possible removal of a micronutrient deficiency that made the plant more suceptible; or a combination of the three, plus the possibility that other factors remain unidentified. This is going to take some serious work before being resolved, by someone (or an institution) that can follow up on it. I would appreciate being sent the results and hope that they would be posted here, if this happens. D H *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27/05/99 at 11:03 AM Russ Bulluck wrote: >Boric Acid is considered a insect irritant. . . I don't know if borax has the same interaction. (Supposedly, the boric acid crystals get between the exoskeleton and underlying tissue, and drives the bugs wild. . .) Just my two cents. . .Russ > >Fred Magdoff wrote: > >> Hi, >> Keep in mind that borax is an insecticide and is used for roach control in urban settings. Not sure of its mode of action, nor how broadly it is toxic. >> >> FRED >> >> Douglas M. Hinds wrote: >> >> > Hello, >> > >> > >the addition of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron >> > >deficiency, ...as main attractant for bugs >> > >> > You are implying that the neither the Hot Chili Pepper nor the Garlic present in the solution applied were significant contributing factors to the aphids' disappearance? It would be interesting (and important) to verify this by doing another series of tests with more controls. What are the possibilities of doing that on your end (in deference to the antecedents you already have behind you)? Or perhaps there are others receiving this that may be better positioned to do this sooner. A soil analysis to determine the existence of a boron (or other micronutrient) deficiency would also help correlate your supposition (which I have no quarrel with - my interest is in corroborating it). >> > >> > D H >> > >> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> > >> > On 27/05/99 at 9:17 AM Argall Family wrote: >> > >> > >I have in the past combined chili, pepper, garlic, clay, without real >> > >benefit, until I added a very small amount of borax, in the opinion of an >> > >entomologist scarcely enough to annoy ants working aphids. But the addition >> > >of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron >> > >deficiency, quite likely in our wet environment. I tend to come back to >> > >suspecting soil deficiency as main attractant for bugs, and the need to work >> > >on nutrition while getting rid of the immediate problem. >> > > >> > >Dennis >> > > >> > > >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > > >> > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >> > Douglas M. Hinds >> > Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) >> > (Center for Community and Rural Development) >> > Petronilo Lopez No. 73 >> > Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO >> > e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx >> > >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >-- >Russ Bulluck >Ph.D. Candidate >Department of Plant Pathology >North Carolina State University >PO Box 7616 >Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 > >http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot >be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, >and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil >economy that it must be studied. >--Sir E. John Russell >The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Douglas M. Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 13:35:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16672 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA11928 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:01:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11896 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA17656 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990527130643.007d6250@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:06:43 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Small Composter In-Reply-To: <199905262210.SAA16526@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1077 Get four pallets from a local factory. Make and upright box. Toss in your stuff. If you have enough material and the right ration (of veg scraps to leaves to grass clippings) you should have no smell problem. In my experience this setup is way cheaper (free) and way easier to deal with than the various plastic doo-dads sold for lots of $$ in the gardening catalogs. Good Luck! Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 14:38:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18786 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:46:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06866 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-8.ofrf.org (SC-193.got.net [209.66.101.193]) by always.got.net (8.9.2/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA81361; Thu, 27 May 1999 10:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990527095824.006f9010@mail.got.net> X-Sender: research@mail.got.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:47:44 -0700 To: fiskjohn@pilot.msu.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: Re: linking consumer health and production methods (slight correction) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA06889 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1078 Friends, Becky King in our office just corrected me: the bibliography we posted yesterday on nutrition and organic production was actually compiled by Steve Diver at ATTRA, who had provided it to us here at OFRF. Thanks to Steve D. and apologies to all for any confusion. Mark Lipson, OFRF Bibliography: -Anon. 1988. The value of organic food. The Living Earth. July-September. p. 16-17. -Anon. 1992. Towards a new definition of food quality. NOFA-NY News. January/February. p.3 &6. -Ausebel, Kenny. 1994. Seeds of Change: The Living Treasure. HarperSanFrancisco, San Francisco, CA 232p. -Beddoe, A. F. 1992. Nourishment Home Grown. Agro-Bio Systems, Grass Valley, CA 299p. -Clancy, Katherine L. 1986. The role of sustainable agriculture in improving the safety and quality of the food supply. American Journal of Alternative Agriculture. Winter. P. 11-18. -Comis, Don. 1989. Nitrogen overload may shrivel vitamin content.Agricultural Research. July. P.10-11 -Eggert, F. P. 1983. Effect of soil management practices on yield and foliar nutrient concentration of dry beans, carrots, and tomatoes. P. 247-259 In: Lockeretz, W. (ed.) Environmentally Sound Agriculture. Praeger Scientific, NY. -Feenstra, Gail. 1992. Vitamin and mineral contents of carrot and celeriac grown under mineral or organic fertilization. Components. Vol. 3, No. 1 p. 9-10. Review of Leclerc, J. et al. 1991. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture, Vol. 7 p. 339-348. -Fischer, Ada, and C.H. Richter. 1986. Influence of organic and mineral fertilizers on yield and quality of potatoes. P. 236-248. In: The Importance of Biological Agriculture in a World of Diminishing Resources. Proceeding of the 5th IFOAM International Scientific Conference at the University of Kassel (Germany). -Hood, Sam. 1993. Exhausted soil produces exhausted people. Acres, USA. June p.30 &39. -Hornick, Sharon B. 1992. Factors affecting the nutritional quality of crops. American Journal of Alternative Agriculture. Vol.7, No.1-2. P.63-68. -Howard, Sir Albert. 1947. The Soil and Health. The Devin-Adair Co., New York. 307 p. -Kenton, Leslie. 1988. Eat organic, and live well. The Secrets of Ecological Agriculture. The Living Earth. July-September. P.17-18. -Knorr, Dietrich. 1982. Natural and organic foods: definitions, quality and problems. Cereal Foods World. Vol. 27, No.4. p. 163-168. -Knorr, Dietrich. 1982. Use of a circular chromatographic method for the distinction of collard plants grown under different fertilizing conditions. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. Vol.1. p.29-38. -Knorr, Dietrich, and Harmut Vogtmann. 1983. Quality of and quality determination of ecologically grown foods. P.352-381. In: Knorr, Dietrich (ed.) Sustainable Food Systems. The AVI Publishing Co., Westport, CT. -Lairon, D. et al. 1986. Effects of organic and mineral fertilizations on the contents of vegetables in minerals, vitamin C, and nitrates. P. 249-260. In: The Importance of Biological Agriculture in a World of Diminishing Resources. Proceeding of the 5th IFOAM International Scientific Conference at the University of Kassel (Germany). -Lampkin, Nicolas. 1990. Organic Farming. Farming Press, Ipswich, United Kingdom. p.557-573, and 608-610. -Lockeretz, William. (ed.) 1997. Conference Proceedings: Agricultural Production and Nutrition. Tufts University School of Nutrition Science and Policy, Medford, MA. -Maga, Joseph A. 1983. Organically grown foods. P.305-349. In: Knorr, Dietrich (ed.) Sustainable Food Systems. The AVI Publishing Co., Westport, CT. -McSheelhy, T.W. 1977. Nutritive value of wheat grown under organic and chemical systems of farming. Qualitas Planatarum - Plant Foods for Human Nutrition. Vol. 27.P.113-123. -Peavy, William S., and Warren Peary. 1993. Super Nutrition Gardening. Avery Publishing Co., Garden City, NY 236p. -Plochberger, K. 1989. Feeding experiments. A criterion for quality estimation of biologically and conventionally produced foods. Agriculture, Ecosystems, and Environment. Vol. 27. P.419-428. -Schupman, W. 1975. Yield maximisation versus biological value. Qualitas Planatarum - Plant Food for Human Nutrition. Vol. 27. P.281-310. -Shier, N.W. et al. 1984. A comparison of crude protein, moisture, ash and crop yield between organic and conventionally grown wheat. Nutrition Reports International. Vol.30, No.1. p.71-77. -Velimirov, A. et al. 1992. The influence of biologically and conventionally cultivated food on the fertility of rats. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. Vo..8. p.325-337. SOURCE: e-mail from steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu (Steve Diver, Fayetteville, AR), May 1, 1996. NOTE: A familiar citing on the issue of the nutritional content of organically versus conventionally produced food is the 1948 Rutgers University report "Variation in Mineral Content in Vegetables" by Firman E. Bear published in the Proceedings of the Soil Science Society of America. However, this study did not investigate organic versus commercial produce. The tables were mis-printed to read as organic versus non-organic and for years it has circulated as fact. The study examined the mineral composition of vegetables grown on different soil types. They found that vegetables grown on heavy soils in the Ohio Valley had a greater mineral content than produce grown on sandy Coastal Plain soils near the East Coast. These results are important because they show that soil typeand probably soil organic matter contentaffect the mineral composition of foods grown on them. However, there are many environmental and cultural factors that influence the nutritional composition of produce and these may ultimately play a greater role in food quality the simple organic versus conventional logic. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 14:41:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18835 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA14189 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:55:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA14168 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 13:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.7) with ESMTP id S.0000131180 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:51:43 +0100 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), biotech_activists@iatp.org Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:52:00 +0100 Subject: Lawsuits follow intro of GE seeds Message-ID: <1010364414.60115642@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1079 This is about patent suits between GE companies, and it will hurt farmers. Hence, one more straw is being added to the camel's back. conclusion of article: Prudential's McMillin sees the legal costs being passed on to farmers. "At the end of the day, the farmer will be the one paying the lawyers because the cost of these lawsuits will result in more expensive products," he said. ---- Lawsuits follow introduction of hybrid seeds (Des Moines Register; 05/23/99) Johnston, Ia. -The widespread planting of genetically altered seeds in the past two years has produced a huge crop of lawsuits as companies fight to protect their research dollars and high-tech inventions. John McMillin, a seed industry analyst for Prudential Securities in New York, said so many lawsuits are being filed, he has had a hard time keeping up with them all. "It's going to take 10 years to work all of these lawsuits through the courts," he said. Traditional pollination methods in the field have become old- fashioned as years of expensive genetic research moved seed production into the laboratory. By examining plants on the microscopic level, identifying each tiny gene's function and manipulating plants' genetic information, companies are changing the crops farmers eventually produce. Corn that once would have fallen victim to pests or poor soil now grows strong in the field. Soybeans produce new oils that are low in saturated fat and have a longer shelf life. Crop yields continue to climb. Despite controversy over the new technology, including a European ban on imports of several varieties of genetically modified corn, the new products have been popular with farmers looking for a leg up on bugs, weeds and the weather. Farmers' hunger for new products and willingness to pay a premium for them have companies scrambling to meet demand and ensure a return on research that can run into the millions of dollars. With the dozens of new hybrid seeds being introduced each year come patents, which block anyone other than the owner from making, using or selling the invention for 20 years, and protection from the Plant Variety and Protection Act. Herbert Jervis, chief intellectual property counsel at Pioneer Hi- Bred International Inc. in Johnston, a suburb of Des Moines, said complications are routine in the early stages of a new technology when there are limited ways of achieving developments. "When that happens, that's when you see lawsuits," Jervis said. "It's not unique to agriculture, by the way. It happens in lots of industries as they go through maturing cycles." Lawsuits filed over the use of genetics have involved the biggest names in the seed industry: Pioneer, St. Louis-based **Monsanto** Co., Illinois-based Dekalb Genetics Corp. and Minneapolis-based Cargill Inc. However, there have been resolutions in several big cases, including one in March when **Monsanto** and longtime rival Zeneca Group of Britain dropped lawsuits against each other after making a pact over competing herbicides. David Snively, assistant general counsel for **Monsanto**, said the company has initiated little legal action over the use of genetics but must ensure that its customers receive quality products. "We certainly want to make sure that farmers, when they buy a bag of **Monsanto**'s Roundup-ready soybeans, know what they're getting, that it's really the right genes and it's truly going to perform to their expectations because our name is on the bag," he said. Slater-based Garst Seed Co., part of a European-based joint venture that is the fourth-largest seed company in the world, has so far avoided litigation over the use of genetics. Garst president Col Seccombe said his company has worked hard to reach agreements with other companies and has even turned away from pursuing some claims because of the costs involved. "If we're not certain, we'll try and negotiate with people to get clarity," he said. "With lawsuits where you're throwing around numbers of upwards of $100 million at a time, we're the fourth- largest seed company in the U.S., but we cannot afford to get into litigation of that size. This is not that profitable of a business." Jervis said Pioneer also carefully charts its genetics development and works to reach agreements with other companies. But Pioneer also must protect its seed and its customers, he said. "Although the farmers may not appreciate all the ins and outs of this, partly it's done for their protection because when we place a product on the market, we have potential liability under the patent rights of others for selling the product and the user may also have some problems," he said. Snively said it likely will take years for many of the lawsuits to be resolved. "It's that sort of litigation with an infant industry, where people are trying to sort out the rules and who's bumping into whom in the marketplace and what those rules should be," he said. Prudential's McMillin sees the legal costs being passed on to farmers. "At the end of the day, the farmer will be the one paying the lawyers because the cost of these lawsuits will result in more expensive products," he said. (Copyright 1999) From: "Biotech Activists" To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com Subject: gmos and lawsuits Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 05:56:09 -0500 -- http://www.greenbuilder.com modem: 512.288.3903 -- Green Building Professionals Directory at http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 15:05:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19358 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:05:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA16923 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:02:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16872 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool003-max21.mpop2-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.244.3]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id LWNZDCMZ; Thu, 27 May 1999 14:02:36 -0400 Message-ID: <374D8B51.C4FCAB71@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:13:38 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Rabies References: <199905271642.MAA29956@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1080 In many north eastern states farmers vacinate all animals against rabies, as there are rabid racoons aplenty (not as many as 5 years ago, as they keep dying ;-) The only problem with CT is that the State calls for certification in order to vacinate, so the cost is $10 not $2- (a little prohibitive for a couple of hundred sheep)- but, many buy there vacine in the midwest and do it anyhow. I highly recommend vacinating your animals if there is rabies in your area! it is a nasty disease. Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 16:09:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21392 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA29139 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:10:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA29086 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990527191322.12504.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 27 May 1999 12:13:22 PDT Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:13:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Excerpt from Leopold Letter To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1081 Hello Saneteers, I was just reading the Center for Rural Affairs May 1999 Newsletter which contains a reprint of the article below. It first appeared in the Leopold Letter. The clarity of the writing and the astute summation of the issues strike me as exceptional. But then there is very little about Neil Harl that is ordinary. So in case you missed this before, here's the text again. Kate ------------ Excerpt from the Winter 1998 issue of the Leopold Letter. Find it at www.leopold.iastate.edu ------------- Contract agriculture: Will it tip the balance? By Neil E. Harl, Charles F. Curtiss Distinguished Professor and professor of economics The signs of increasing use of contracts are everywhere-especially on the production side of agriculture. Specialty grains, feeder livestock, even vegetables, are being produced under contract and have for some time. So what's the concern about the rising tide of contract agriculture? Basically, the concern is the possible shift in bargaining power that is barreling down the economic highway. This topic is particularly important in light of the Des Moines Register's series, "Can Iowa Tap Its Wealth?" in September and that newspaper's editorial, "Iowa's Golden Challenge." I agree that the technology of processing and the exciting developments in corn genetics are important to the state. The key question is: Who will benefit from these breakthroughs? Concentration in seed companies Except for those who are taking the scenic trip to Mars, it's clear what's happening with seed companies. Mergers, alliances and various other forms of arrangements are reducing the number of players and increasing the level of concentration. But that's not the whole story. The revolution in ownership of germ plasm, the feature of cells that determines the characteristics of offspring, also is moving rapidly toward concentration in a few hands. The high-profile alliance between DuPont and Pioneer Hi-Bred International, the Monsanto acquisition of a greater interest in DeKalb and the Monsanto acquisition of Delta and Pine Land Company are recent examples of how the ownership and control of genetic material in crops is falling into the hands of a few, economically powerful players. This development is partly related to the changing role of the land grant universities, partly to the ability in recent years to manipulate germ plasm through genetic engineering, and partly to the consequence of the ability to obtain a monopoly-like position over unique life forms and over the process of genetic manipulation. For decades the land grant universities developed the basic genetic lines and made those lines available to the seed industry. Because of limitations on university funding and the near-revolution in genetic engineering, the private sector began pouring more money into basic research. The advent of genetic engineering meant that scientists could manipulate genetic composition-not through conventional crop breeding techniques but through laboratory procedures-to change the genetic makeup of plant and animal life. That has produced herbicide-resistant crops, for example. Finally, the U.S. Supreme Court in a 1980 landmark case determined that life forms could be patented. In addition to federal Plant Variety Protection (PVP) and simply shrouding research efforts with secrecy, the ability to patent life forms provides a powerful tool to keep competitors at bay. Effect on contracts So what effect will concentration in the seed business and control by the few resulting firms over germ plasm likely have on contract negotiations with producers? It depends on the options open to producers who don't like the terms of contracts offered to them. With numerous contract possibilities available from input suppliers, each offering inputs of roughly equal productivity and cost, the answer is perhaps "not much." But if there are just a few options, with the next best offering a much less attractive set of inputs in terms of cost and productivity, the answer is "take what you're offered." The outcome is likely to be a tilting in the terms of contracts in favor of the input supplier. The division of revenue from production, thus, would be expected to shift over time in favor of the party with the monopoly or near-monopoly position. Seed companies and other input suppliers can be expected to drive the best possible bargain which means, in the case of seed, capturing the greatest possible percentage of the value from any yield premium. The outcome would be a smaller share of the revenue from production going to the producer, resulting in less compensation to the producer and less to capitalize into land values. Seed companies would end up with a larger share of the pie with more to capitalize into the stock of the input supply firms. Even if unique corn derivatives produce revenue of $2 million per acre, it's fairly clear that whomever holds the rights to the technology involved will capture the lion's share of the revenue, not the producer. A good argument can be made that this perception of potential profits in the future is part of what is driving the intense push toward concentration in control over germ plasm and the process of genetic manipulation that is now occurring. Other shifts may follow The negotiating power of seed firms could well have other impacts. In an effort to control the germ plasm more completely, seed companies are likely to negotiate for ownership of the product with the producer under contract to produce but with only a contract right to payment, without ownership of the crop or livestock involved. Similarly, the contract may contain what would appear at first glance to be an attractive feature-the input supplier bearing the price risks. These seemingly innocent shifts would mean, however, that the economic position of the producer would be transformed from that of a risk-taking entrepreneur into a relatively risk-free world of fixed compensation. Thus, a shift not only of compensation would occur in favor of the input supplier but also a shift of management functions in the same direction. The outcome would be reminiscent of the limited role played by growers under broiler contracts. Natural barriers inhibited In general, one would expect high-handed economic behavior by near monopolists to be met by entry of new competitors attracted by the generous terms of contracts in favor of the input suppliers. And that would likely occur if entry were possible. However, barriers to entry may be fairly high. One barrier is capital. Substantial capital may be needed to mount a research effort to maintain a product flow similar to that of the firms pressing for monopoly-like concentration levels. Existing patent and PVP may mean that potential competitors are frozen out of competition (as a practical matter) for the duration of the patent or PVP certificate. One possible strategy for farmers is to forge alliances among themselves (specifically allowed by federal law so long as it does not "unduly enhance" price). The push to achieve such countervailing power was the driving force behind the formation of labor unions a century ago. Historically, however, farmers have been unwilling to accept such a disciplined approach to achieving bargaining power. Another possible area of protection against a sharp tilt in the economic terms of contracts is increased vigilance by federal (or state) anti-trust agencies. Certainly, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the U.S. Department of Justice should be sensitized to the potential for economic abuses down the road. It's been well established for decades that firms with monopoly power over a product should not be able to "tie" other products to the transaction and extend the monopoly position. Such arrangements, which involve tying products over which a firm does not have monopoly power (such as financing, insurance or risk management) to a product over which the firm does have monopoly power (such as a seed variety), are illegal per se unless it can be demonstrated that the product in monopoly status wouldn't work as well with other firms' products. And, that's rarely the case. The FTC and the Department of Justice should scrutinize all seed industry mergers carefully for anti-competitive consequences and all practices by seed companies in tying credit, insurance, risk management or other needed inputs to seed availability. Prudent advice It seems a bit far-fetched for agricultural production to be transformed so dramatically. And it may never happen to the degree painted by the scenario outlined in this article. But it's well within the range of feasibility. Only time will tell. In the meantime, the prudent course would suggest careful evaluation of mergers and alliances now occurring in rapid succession. Dr. Harl is director of the Center for International Agricultural Finance that conducts educational programs for individuals from Central and Eastern Europe, the Commonwealth of Independent States and the Baltics. He is author or coauthor of more than 350 publications in legal and economic journals and bulletins and more than 800 articles in various farm and financial publications. He has spoken widely on debtor-creditor relations, estate planning and organization of the farm business with more than 2,900 speaking appearances in 42 states. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 18:10:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26165 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA20738 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:14:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA20644 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:14:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA13688 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA01734 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 16:14:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199905272114.QAA01734@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:13:55 -0500 Subject: Drought & livestock/Mexico X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1082 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you planet-watchers. I haven't had a chance in recent years to write you all some thoughts on water, the true basis of life and ag. This summer. Stay tuned. pax mgs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DROUGHT EFFECTS, LIVESTOCK - MEXICO *********************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 From: Martin Hugh-Jones Source: Electronic Telegraph (edited) Mexico is in the grip of one of the worst droughts in its history, with cattle dying and farmers watering their crops with raw sewage. Authorities have already declared 5 northern states disaster areas, and will add 7 more states unless there is rain in the next day or so. Reservoirs and rivers are drying up, crops are wilting and more than 10,000 cattle have died. Meteorologists say this could be Mexico's worst drought. In Sonora state rainfall is 92 per cent below average. In Nayarit state there has been no rain this year. Even the Rio Grande, separating Mexico and the United States, is almost dry along a long stretch of the border. It is the second consecutive dry year across northern Mexico, and for some states the fifth consecutive year of drought. - -- Martin Hugh-Jones [Drought is a serious issue for the agriculture industry and from the aspect of water availability for people and towns. This is also an economic hardship for producers and even for the entire region. Texas and Oklahoma suffered terribly last year from prolonged excessive high temperatures and drought. Fortunately, the high temperatures of this time last year have not arrived yet, but rain is in short supply. - Mod.TG] <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 18:20:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26454 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA19281 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:13:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dub-img-12.compuserve.com (dub-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.206.142]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA19169 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id RAA17872 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:04:08 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: FW: "Waste" Gypsum Could Help Boost Crop Yields To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199905271711_MC2-7748-BF35@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1083 SANET, Does anyone know how you get gypsum from a power plant? I would think not from the gas, oil or air which are burned, perhaps from scrubbing the smoke? What else is in this stack waste? Bill Duesing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 18:32:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26699 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA10234 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:43:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from UNLVM.UNL.EDU (unlvm.unl.edu [129.93.200.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA10094 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:43:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hcarter.unl.edu (129.93.224.44) by UNLVM.UNL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 27 May 99 16:44:06 CDT Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990527164319.0079ee10@unlvm.unl.edu> X-Sender: csas007@unlvm.unl.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:43:19 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Heidi Carter Subject: New Document Available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1084 New Document Available: Summation of Evaluations from the Workshops on Facing a Watershed: Managing Profitable and Sustainable Landscapes in the 21st Century, June and July, 1998 >From 1995 through 1998, the North Central Sustainable Agriculture Training Program (NCSATP) conducted ten workshops and three year-end planning and review meetings in eleven states. NCSATP was part of the Professional Development Program of the North Central Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program. The 1998 workshops, Facing a Watershed: Managing Profitable and Sustainable Landscapes in the 21st Century, were held in St. Charles, Illinois; Traverse City, Michigan; and Ames, Iowa. Each workshop focused on a watershed influenced by a different combination of land use pressures: urbanization, tourism, and agriculture. We wrote Summation of Evaluations for educators who design programs for sustainable agriculture and natural resource management. We are sharing our experiences of what worked and what did not to increase your success. >From reading the evaluations, we outlined general themes, listed the greatest benefits and challenges to watershed planning, and discussed the numerical ratings of the sessions. Many of the principles can be applied to organizing educational events besides watershed workshops. The document is six pages of text, with much white space, and five pages of tables. If your heart flutters at the mere mention of evaluation, contact me at 402-472-0917 or csas007@unlvm.unl.edu, and I will send a hard copy or an attachment. Heidi Carter _______________________________________________________________ Heidi Carter Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems University of Nebraska 219 Keim Hall Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 p: 402-472-0917 f: 402-472-4104 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 18:51:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA27042 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA22458 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:00:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA22416 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14572 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA03513 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:00:17 -0500 Message-Id: <199905272200.RAA03513@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:00:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Small Composter In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990527130643.007d6250@crocker.com> References: <199905262210.SAA16526@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1085 Howdy, all-- Mark from CISA wrote: > Get four pallets from a local factory. Make and upright box. > Toss in your stuff. If you have enough material and the right > ration (of veg scraps to leaves to grass clippings) you should have > no smell problem. > > In my experience this setup is way cheaper (free) and way easier > to deal with than the various plastic doo-dads sold for lots of $$ > in the gardening catalogs. A few observations based on my experience in urban and rural ag. A lidless composter in a big city can draw rats, mice, raccoons, possums, cats, starlings, sparrows, pigeons, maggots, and other colonizers. This isn't a situation you or your neighbors would appreciate if you live in Kate's part of the world--say, a row home in South Philly, Manayunk, Frankford, or Darby. You haven't lived till rats or possums start fighting over eggshells and vegie waste in your tiny backyard at 3 a.m. in the city. Nor till your neighbors take it up with you as an issue. :^] As for a scrap-pallet composter, city rats can chew thru wooden pallets faster than you can say "Big Brother, Room 101." These are animals for whom there are effectively no predators, and who breed in direct proportion to how much they consume. When they reach overpopulation and get hungry, they go on attack. When they are in some sort of population balance, they still carry disease. Open composters with kitchen wastes are basically rat feeding stations, in the city. In the swampy heat of a Philadelphia July/August, porous wood (like pallet soft pine or poplar) can absorb waste liquids...and in a few days put off a smell like nothing I've ever experienced here in Madison. Neighbors then associate composting with the smell of rotting garbage. In addition, some industrial pallets are treated with chemicals--or have had chemicals leaked onto them (depending on their source)--that I wouldn't want leaching into my garden. While plastic may seem unsustainable...it is also an enduring material. A good friend of mine in Wilmington, DE, bought a "green magic" plastic barrel composter about 15 years ago that she's still using. She paid maybe $100 for it then. Not only has it been an effective tool since, at a cost of, what, $6.75 per year--she's made other productive use of the time it'd take for her to rebuild scrap-material composters in the interim. It was made of a UV-resistant material which has faded some over the years...but is still hanging in as a tool. Not many wooden tools hold up that long in the city or urban shadow. (Or even in rural areas--I'm thinking of the last time I fabricated a wooden drawbar for a drag....) Unless the wood is treated with chemicals. Finally, not only do tools in urban settings have to withstand the elements--heat, cold, UV--they also are exposed to higher proportions of industrial chemicals, acid rain, etc. I'm all for the scavenging school of food production. Making do, recycling materials, etc. However, careful technology assessment can lead to the conclusion that a $70 investment in a polymer composter is a good choice in some situations. One reason food production has moved out of the cities is that people transplanted rural technologies to cities without adapting them for their new Places. From a policy perspective, it was viewed as easier to ban the technologies, and food production systems in general, as problems than adapt them. So that today, you can keep a yard full of honking, sniveling, inbred Rottweilers...but not a few chickens. Finding the right combination of production systems, supporting technologies, and urban food production policies will take some work...and thought. Some of the tools sold for urban or suburban gardening can surely be put in the category of "doo-dads" (implying nonessential). But I think we need to do careful technology assessments before concluding that. The constraints on the urban farmer are very unlike those on other farmers. Sometimes the thought that goes into the production of a certain tool--like these composters--is careful, and designed to ease those constraints. So that part of the cost of these tools is technology in the purest sense: the word comes from Latin /tekhne-/, meaning skill. peace mish <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis: Anarcho-syndicalism is a way of *preserving* freedom! His Wife: Oh, Dennis, *forget* about freedom! We 'aven't got enough mud! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 19:59:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA28117 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA04346 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:04:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA04324 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA15391 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d59-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.59]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA01888; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:04:25 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" , Subject: RE: request for composter information Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:06:24 +1000 Message-ID: <000101bea895$8b111aa0$3b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199905270044.TAA20692@aae.wisc.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1086 Just another thought or two. We find it easier, less smelly, in suburban environment, to have two medium sized plastic bins. That means that you can finish loading one [eventually] and then start on the second one, without having to figure out what to do, how to turn over deeply unattractive stuff which was only put in the bin recently. With the two bins together, you can also expect that worms migrated into the first will finish work in one and go to the other [which is what I would call a worm farm, workers drawn by attractive conditions from all over the neighbourhood, leaving freely if pay and conditions decline, as distinct from what is conventionally called a worm farm, but is really a worm prison, worms brought in and locked up]. You don't of course have to buy two compost bins at once, but if you like this idea you might look at bins from that perspective in the hardware store. That presumes that you have enough users, material, to fill two bins over time. If not, then you might want to look at getting a worm farm [what I was jestingly calling a worm prison] instead, which will be smaller, more manipulable, producing very handy solid and liquid products for a small garden or potplants. The smell and fly issues are to an extent dealt with by the quality of the bin you get or build, but also by what you put in the bin. As a rough guide, things a dog would eat, not to be rude about dogs, are basically more likely to cause putrefaction and stink. Also, you shouldn't put things a dog produces into a composter, because you can't be sure that the temperature of such a bin will destroy pathogens. Basically, these add-scraps-as-you-go bins are different in performance from what one would do with composting with large quantities of material in a larger space. When you have a big space and lots of grass or hay or leaves and manure, etc, you can make a heap of several cubic yards and by turning that sufficiently often, every day or so, you can get the heap to a high temperature where composting is swift and pathogen breakdown and seed destruction are pretty comprehensive. Whereas the city garden bin, with bits from the kitchen daily, cuttings and clippings from the garden sometimes, is not going to be hot or fast, and is going to have to be left for quite some time to finish its work. This is relevant to the worm question too - a high temperature compost heap suits very specialist worms, whereas a 'cool' compost bin attracts average garden type worms, who can escape back to the soil, if the bin is open to the soil, if it gets too hot in the kitchen. Our suburban bins, medium sized, their input reduced by very little grass cutting and separation of material for dog and hens, take more than a year to fill one bin - when the weather is warm, the temperature rises and the level sinks away quite rapidly, especially if it's filled itself during a cold period (worms don't mind this, they are used to going deep in hot weather). Obviously much depends on where you live and what you have to put in the bin. cheers Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 20:43:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28903 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA00333 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:41:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA00045 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d59-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.59]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA06607; Fri, 28 May 1999 09:41:02 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Douglas M. Hinds" , Subject: RE: Chili Concentrate and borax Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 09:43:02 +1000 Message-ID: <000201bea89a$a8f34de0$3b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199905271138170270.00A8006E@acnet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1087 In Australia, the most common way of dealing with ants in the house is to feed sugar and borax together in a dish, which is taken back to the queen... similar technique as in dealing with termites by leaving an arsenic trioxide bait in the way of the termites. As mentioned in my earlier message, the amount of borax I used in my spray was very small relative to that kind of dosage. It may be that I had used inadequate strength of chili, garlic or pepper or clay (same impact on skeleton as diatomaceous earth, less dramatic), or maybe the weather was too damp for my spray to stick to the targets. While I understand that tests may have value, if I start from the proposition that soil deficiency, ergo plant nutrition, are critical, I wonder how you would really ever get to standardise such a magnificently diverse factor as soil. When we've looked at some research scientists' plots on which, for example, they try things on sheep, we've had to wonder what healthy animal could live on such rotten over-grazed pasture - which would of course skew results away from nutrition to problem-killing approaches. Bear in mind, as you are no doubt reminded by the word 'sheep', that I am writing from Australia, where soils are old and eroded and generally very very thin, and a soluble ion like boron is likely to be deficient over a wide area. Also bear in mind that soil tests are expensive for small farmers, and that with sufficiently diverse underlying geology and sufficiently rich soil ecology, including opening rock with very deep rotting species, soil can improve itself if given a chance, and that really needs to be given first priority, in my view. A soil test may provide some critical guide as to some trace deficiency, but we have also had some major regional disasters here where trace element deficiencies have been determined and made up, only to find that there were other major factors contributing to soil collapse, exhaustion, desiccation, devastation after a short number of seasons. I guess my original message in this thread was directed at widening the question. It becomes easy to see such well-known questions as "What will fix this particular?" or "what is the best way to apply this fix?" and run down a narrow path which is just a variant on conventional farming but using notionally acceptable substances, when what we should really be trying to do is a dance with the soil and vegetation and beasts, with them seeking to move to an ecological climax and we trying to divert them to a state of utility and productivity, with modest divergence from their path, minimal loss of their enthusiastic fundamental health. The other pest management technique I use is the magic substance LTBTA ["leave the bloody thing alone"] which is the finest way of finding out whether plants are suited to a local environment. The answer in our own highly unreliable climate, sitting on unusually good soil for Australia, is that one year will suit one fruit tree, the next year may suit another, the long term recommends both. A case: my intervention in the past, for example adding iron [ferric azoterbacterial sludge from the creek] to citrus, which everybody assured me they needed, resulted in a potassium deficiency (if my observation of autumn pests is an appropriate base for such a judgment). A single dose of wood ash and years of mulching and LTBTA have corrected the problem, no more aphids. cheers Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 20:48:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA29013 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA08106 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:54:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08065 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA24015 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 19:57:13 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:51:16 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.139] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 12183b3c ; Thu, 27 May 1999 18:50:58 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990527185120.00821240@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:51:20 -0500 To: From: Mike Miller Subject: Re: FW: "Waste" Gypsum Could Help Boost Crop Yields In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1088 Bill, you raise a very good question about the impurities in the waste gypsum. They are referring to the sludge from the flu gas desulfurization (FGD) process. I have been out of the coal cleaning research since the '80 (remember the "Acid rain is caused by trees" quote by a national leader who will remain brainless?) but one of the problems with FGD and especially the wet process was how to dispose of the resulting sludge. Landfill bulldozers tended to sink in the stuff. Anyway, everything that was in the particular coal that was burned and did not end up in the bottom ash or goes out the stack is a potential contaminant in the "power plant gypsum". A friend who worked for Babcock and Wilcox Nuclear said that if the dust from coal fired power plants was treated by the same standards as Nuclear Plants, it would have to be disposed of as a low level nuclear waste. That being said, I would not dismiss it out of hand until we know the trace elements composition and level is determined and more importantly the inherent variability of those contaminants OVER TIME in the sludge. Coal is inherently variable because it is the product of natural deposition. You know this part was in a swamp backwater, while that part was in a stream channel type of thing. Mike Miller At 17:03 27-05-99 -0600, you wrote: > >SANET, > >Does anyone know how you get gypsum from a power plant? I would think not >from the gas, oil or air which are burned, perhaps from scrubbing the >smoke? > >What else is in this stack waste? > >Bill Duesing > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu May 27 22:29:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00554 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 22:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA27672 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 21:50:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dialup0.macomb.com (IDENT:root@dialup0.macomb.com [199.120.118.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA27622 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 21:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from macomb.com ([208.34.39.232]) by dialup0.macomb.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15280; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:50:41 -0500 Message-ID: <374DF7D3.DC4F5C98@macomb.com> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:56:36 -0500 From: Kathy Jeffries Reply-To: jeffries@macomb.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jane Kuck , SANET Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Fw: alert] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E48FF435E387B3DBE9C5FE47" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1089 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E48FF435E387B3DBE9C5FE47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------E48FF435E387B3DBE9C5FE47 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from hotmail.com (law-f199.hotmail.com [209.185.130.109]) by dialup0.macomb.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA02261 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 17:51:14 -0500 Received: (qmail 9979 invoked by uid 0); 27 May 1999 22:50:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990527225050.9978.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.254.174.44 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 1999 15:50:49 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.254.174.44] From: "Gayla Havener" To: Kjaco1@aol.com, mdc24@earthlink.net, mangold.gary@mhsil.com, karenr@motion.net, jconway@pekin.net, jeffries@macomb.com, hammergk@pol.net, jellos@aol.com, benmar@up.net, mkroth@midwest.net, mmuehrin@csulb.edu, rhavener@earthlink.com, TLRN@webtv.net, gatewood.tara@mhsil.com Subject: Fwd: Fw: alert Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:50:49 CDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; ----Original Message Follows---- From: "mike" To: "Marsha Harris" ,"Heather Wells" ,"cheryl" ,"Mary Power" ,"Jerry L Williams" ,"J.C. Tonelle" ,"Jamie Stufflebeam" ,"Gayla Havener" Subject: Fw: alert Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 18:21:03 -0500 >Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 4:57 PM >Subject: Fw: alert > > >I don't know how true this is, but better safe that sorry >-----Original Message----- >From: Garwood, Jill >To: Gallo, Gina ; Calomino, Michelle >; Rice, Amy ; >'luvstropic@hotmail.com' ; 'tlevaul@siue.edu' >; 'steveyounker@hotmail.com' ; >'heatwil@siue.edu' ; 'heatwil@siue.edu' >; 'trathom@siue.edu' ; >'t-stock@students.uiuc.edu' ; >'kgarwood@students.uiuc.edu' >Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 4:18 PM >Subject: FW: alert > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bs1myers@aol.com >To: Sackie74@aol.com; jeb@netlds.com; sldurbin@hotmail.com; >nikkilpn87@chipsnet.com; JcopperTOP@aol.com; shortnote@navix.net; >jakcjak@ctaz.com; ENieto@aol.com; ballen@chipsnet.com; >MICHELLE.MAYS@nmb.norwest.com; michelle1@chipsnet.com; kinmv@ctitech.com; >kweld@uswest.net; JILL-GARWOOD@augustana.edu; HJoh100050@aol.com; >UHHUHKJ1@aol.com > >Sent: 4/28/99 6:57 AM >Subject: alert > > > >> >>Someone is sending out a very desirable >> >>screen-saver, a Bug's Life - >> >>"BUGGLST.ZIP". If you download it, you will lose everything!!! Your >hard >> >>drive will crash and someone from the Internet will get your screen >name and >> >>password! DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! IT JUST >WENT INTO >> >>circulation yesterday, as far as we know. Please distribute/inform >this >> >>message. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know >about >> >>it. This information was announced yesterday morning from Microsoft. >Please >> >>share it with everyone that might access the Internet. >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >> > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com --------------E48FF435E387B3DBE9C5FE47-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 00:12:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02037 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA12620 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:40:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12527 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA18747 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool055-pm3.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.116.55]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25258; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374D0819.B03C1AFF@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 01:53:46 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: request for composter information References: <199905270044.TAA20692@aae.wisc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1090 Right, but actually I have never yet found one that keeps out pests like rodents. I have tried everything, esp one practically guaranteed to keep out rodents, because it was fastened to an underground portion, but that part was a mesh, with large openings, and sure enough, the rats got in. One would have to make a bin that was solid, rightly covered with some lock even a raccoon could not figure out, andnot made of plastic, that rodents can eat holes into. I have finally decided I no longer have pity for rats, and I put out that terrible poison, and at last I have peace. Incredible. I go out in the morning and look around and no evidence of rodent damage. Must be just answer to prayer, after all these many decades of despair. Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison wrote: > Howdy, all-- > > Kate Smith wrote: > > > Does anyone out there have any suggestions for a composter > > that fits a small city lot? I do not have much space or > > extra cash. There are houses close on all sides so I have > > to be careful with smell and appearance for my neighbor's > > sake. Any ideas? > > Check out the funky folks at Gardener's Supply Company in Burlington, > VT: > > http://www.gardeners.com/index.html > > Go to the COMPOSTING part of their site. GSC has a few compost > thangs, including a few small, beautifully designed composters priced > at around $100. They pay for themselves quickly, and look spiffy. > > Or you can build one--check out Jerry Minnich's and Marjorie Hunt's > "Rodale Guide to Composting." I seem to recall a mess of > plans/suggestions for how to build low-cost composters that city > varmints can't colonize. > > Better yet, GSC is about a 9-hour drive from where I-95 passes > Newmarket/Head House Square. Take a nice long summer weekend and > drive on up. :^) > > peace > misha > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems > UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences > Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 > http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > If you knew what life was worth, you > would look for yours on earth. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 00:12:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02041 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 00:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA14027 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:41:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA13900 for ; Thu, 27 May 1999 23:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool055-pm3.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.116.55]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25127; Thu, 27 May 1999 20:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374D0719.EAD93CA6@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 01:49:29 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: Roberto Verzola , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Chili Concentrate References: <000c01bea7cd$ec216b60$303325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1091 Yes, absolutely, the reason for pests is that the plant/soil is inadequate. That was the whole point of Philip Callahan's work, where he showed that plants give off electromagnetic spectrum messages that bugs recognize, sensing with their sensilla. His books are very definite about that. Also, the ACRES USA Prime goes into his work, and so do I in my Organic Method Primer UPDATE. Even in my O.M. Primer BASICS, a very reduced version of the UPDATE, there is an excellent discussion of this. Also, if you read Dr. Arden Anderson's books, you would get good info too. Sold by ACRES USA Argall Family wrote: > I have in the past combined chili, pepper, garlic, clay, without real > benefit, until I added a very small amount of borax, in the opinion of an > entomologist scarcely enough to annoy ants working aphids. But the addition > of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron > deficiency, quite likely in our wet environment. I tend to come back to > suspecting soil deficiency as main attractant for bugs, and the need to work > on nutrition while getting rid of the immediate problem. > > Dennis > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 08:23:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA05959 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 08:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA02551 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 07:39:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mefocs1.me.nrcs.usda.gov (mefocs1.me.nrcs.usda.gov [151.121.215.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA02471 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 07:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from meslisa.me.nrcs.usda.gov by mefocs1.me.nrcs.usda.gov with SMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id KAA02513; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:40:41 GMT Message-ID: <374E7FB3.2AC7@me.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:36:19 -0400 From: Lisa Krall Reply-To: lkrall@me.nrcs.usda.gov Organization: USDA NRCS NEIRT Maine X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jeffries@macomb.com CC: Jane Kuck , SANET Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Fw: alert] References: <374DF7D3.DC4F5C98@macomb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1092 You can check if a virus warning is a hoax by going to http://www.datafellows.com/news/hoax/#b Information about this one is at http://www.datafellows.com/v-descs/bugglst.htm Lisa ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lisa Krall, Agronomist USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service 5 Godfrey Drive, Orono, ME 04473 Phone: 207 866-7249 FAX : 207 866-7262 email: lkrall@me.nrcs.usda.gov VoiceMail: 1 800 384-USDA, 767-8200 767-8200 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 10:52:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09220 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05962 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:05:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05954 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:01:43 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:01:33 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, mmiller@pcsia.com Subject: Re: FW: "Waste" Gypsum Could Help Boost Crop Yields Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1093 I remember reading years ago that more people die from radiation-induced cancers from coal burning residue than from nuclear power (I can imagine who promulgated this information!). Anyway, I also heard that in the 50's lignite coal in North Dakota was burned specifically as a means of creating a uranium "ore" -- ie, the resulting ash. SO, the moral of the story is that stuff left over from coal burning power plants needs careful analysis before it is converted to another use (sort of like sewage sludge, eh?). Theoretically, reasonably "pure" gypsum can be produced. The bottom ash and "clinker" stays put; the fly ash is (nearly all) removed by cyclonic separation and electrostatic precipitators, physical barriers etc.; and, finally, the volatile gases are "scrubbed" with crushed limestone and water. Of course, while sulfur oxides are the main gaseous contaminants, there are a lot of other elements that are volatilized (ie, not particulates susceptible to electrostatic precipitation) and sent up the stacks -- these can include heavy metals which could be trapped in the scrubbing process. I wonder who is doing the appropriate testing (if anyone) prior to land application? BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 10:54:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09268 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04709 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:02:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04652 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:02:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28263 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (259) by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id vFCJa01450 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:02:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:02:06 EDT Subject: Re: Drought & livestock/Mexico To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1094 Water would be a good topic to talk about. In southern Iowa, the people who know about such things look at the trefoil blooming on the side of the road and wonder why its four or five weeks early this year. Steve To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 11:34:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10086 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 11:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06879 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:54:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06848 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04753 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 10:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990528110013.007b9370@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:00:13 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: small composter In-Reply-To: <199905272210.SAA26421@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1095 I stand by my experience with pallets in an urban setting (small city in MA). I never had a problem with rats, vermin, etc. Or neighbors. They were too busy beating each other up or getting high to notice my composter. The real problem was their kids -- they can devour the veggies in your garden faster than a herd of hungry rabbits. I get my pallets from a lumber yard. They are untreated hardwood and have been used to carry other wood, concrete or various other non-leaky building supplies. Plant vining plants around it and before long no one will notice. Besides, if you have a decent garden they will be spending more time admiring your plants and flowers than whining about a composter. As for odor, in my experience that is more due to improper balance of the compost ingredients and/or too low a temperature. I do have a problem with gardening magazines and catalogs telling people that they need to spend $60 or more to make compost. I experimented with two highly touted plastic composters sold at low cost through our solid waste district. Both were lacking. One was too small to allow an effective pile of wasted to accumulate and reach the temperature needed for composting. And it had a ridiculously tiny access door. My neigbor now uses hers as chicken housing! The other was too floppy and high sided to allow for easy access to the composting materials. After years of neglect in a corner of my yard I finally cut a bunch of big holes in it and made it into one of those potato growing bins seen recently in a gardening catalog for a nice piece of change. I have no problem spending money on a tool. It just better do the job as advertised, without a lot of fuss or frustration. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 15:33:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14902 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 15:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA16789 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:16:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from beavis.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16647 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool011-max11.ds12-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.14.211]) by beavis.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id LZGN7YRK; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:16:46 -0400 Message-ID: <374EE02A.F20F4E23@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:27:54 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: compost References: <199905281456.KAA07332@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1096 So a few rodents get into the compost- woopdy doo- What difference does it really make? Get a cat or dog- that will take care of the rats- just my 2 farm cents (not worth much anymore) Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 15:48:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA15144 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 15:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA09627 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:51:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA09583 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.172.173.183] (207-172-173-183.s56.as3.kgp.pa.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.173.183]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA12942 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 14:53:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: patters@pop.erols.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:52:50 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ted Patterson Subject: Re: small composter Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1097 Kate, I think worms are the best small composters. The bulk of our kitchen waste goes to my worm bins. I've got a black plastic outdoor composter, one of the kind given or sold by many municipal waste agencies. However, if we used only the one outdoor composter, it would fill quickly, just with the household waste from our family of three. Maybe you can increase the worm population in Philadelphia. -Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 19:19:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18274 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA10563 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:42:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA10484 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aae.wisc.edu (aae.wisc.edu [144.92.122.133]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA07227 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mojo.aae.wisc.edu ([144.92.244.223]) by aae.wisc.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA26943 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 17:41:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199905282241.RAA26943@aae.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:41:41 -0500 Subject: Rats In-reply-to: <374EE02A.F20F4E23@cafarmersmarkets.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1098 Howdy, all-- Phil Gilman wrote, in response to my posting about composting in an urban setting: > So a few rodents get into the compost- woopdy doo- What difference > does it really make? Get a cat or dog- that will take care of the > rats- > > just my 2 farm cents (not worth much anymore) Phil, you are presenting the viewpoint that I mentioned yesterday: that strategies and technologies that work in rural areas must also work in urban ones. When I say urban, I'm not talking a college town, like Mark's --Amherst, Mass.--nestled on the plain between the Berkshires and scenic route 202, sprinkled with some of the Seven Sisters. I'm talking a megalopolis of tens of millions of people, stretching from Boston to D.C. A few rodents? Kate wrote from Philadelphia. Urban areas like Philadelphia have rat populations in the millions. They live in steam tunnels, electrical conduit tunnels, subways, sewers, and other extensive, hidden, human-made burrows. Not to mention houses, buildings, and other structures. Female Norway rats (/Rattus norvegicus/) have three to seven litters per year, each litter, 6 to 12 pups. Within 24 or 48 hours of giving birth, female Norways are capable of being in heat again. One rat, one year, up to 84 new rats. Roof rats (/Rattus rattus/) are nearly as prodigious. They reproduce pretty much as fast as they eat. Feed a city rat for a few months, and you add hundreds of rats to the ecosystem. Equally voracious, equally prodigious. Rats can swim rivers, fall 50 feet without being injured, chew thru electrical wires and short out a circuit without being harmed...city rats have few or no predators, and your average house-bound, complacent urban dog or cat isn't going to tangle with them. But even if we could count on this UberPet to go a-ratting in the city...how many dogs and cats do you think it would take to control rat populations of this size? How many rat-hunting dogs and cats would be temperamentally fit to live in the confines and constraints of an urban setting--it's not like letting them run around the farm, you know. When I lived downriver from Philadelphia, there were rats of a size and temperament that took down dogs and cats for breakfast. Sometimes in gangs. Children too, but I don't want to tell emergency room stories right now. George Orwell wasn't making that up, in /1984/. He knew about rats from people's experiences in the London slums. You may not see "a few rodents" as a problem in rural areas. The urban ecosystem is quite different. For instance, in 1347, a few rodents disembarked from Genoese merchant ships docked in Sicily after returning from the Black Sea. Within a year, bubonic plague outbreaks had occurred in Marseilles, Paris, England, Germany, and the Netherlands. Within five years, 25 million people--a third of the population of Europe--had died. Some cities lost 2/3rds of their populations. China is believed to have lost over 35 million people at that time. Plague bacilli (/Yersinia pestis/) are carried by fleas, which are carried by rats. Within three to four days of being bitten by a plague-carrying flea, a person who died from the plague would experience high fevers and body pain, with black swellings of the lymph nodes coming soon thereafter. Within a day or two, the swellings burst, and the infected person vomited blood. The person then died. Rats also carry ticks, and thus tick-borne diseases (such as the spirochetes that cause Lyme disease). In addition, a study in the mid-1980s found that 12% of urban rats in Philadelphia and 64% in Baltimore tested seropositive for Seoul virus, a Hantaan-like virus that can produce a hemorrhagic fever, but more often a renal syndrome. (For reference, see http://www.uct.ac.za/microbiology/ebolaess.html) Rats also carry murine typhus, and spread salmonella, leptospirosis, and trichinosis. Where they come into contact with food, they can spread all these diseases, as well as hantaviruses. Rats live only a year. This combined with their reproductive capacity means that any life form (virus, insect, bacterium, etc.) that can move quickly from host to host can always find new rats to serve as vectors, even if it is hugely deadly. That is, the colonizing life form can kill its host...but new hosts are quickly supplied. So. There in a nutshell is the woopdy-doo difference about rats in cities. They are like cockroaches, McDonalds, tax lawyers, and SUVs: there is no such thing as "a few" of them in major urban areas. Once again, I'd like to underscore this issue of assuming that things that work on farms must also work in cities. We've all seen what happens when the opposite assumption gets made. Appropriate technology means, in part, appropriately place-based technology. We who advocate for food production and sustainable living in urban areas have got to be careful in our thinking about such things, if we expect to see the cities re-greened with food. We've got to know our urban spaces as well as rural farmers know theirs. I liked Ronald Nigh's off-list observation that chickens are ideal recyclers for cities: small, eat anything, and quickly convert it to earthworm fodder. But thanks to the poor adaptation of poultry systems to urban environments in the early parts of this century, people came to believe that they were, by necessity, dirty, smelly, noisy creatures. peace misha <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Michele Gale-Sinex, communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems UW-Madison College of Ag and Life Sciences Voice: (608) 262-8018 FAX: (608) 265-3020 http://www.wisc.edu/cias/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pressure? Pressure was when I was a shoeshine boy trying to make it to America. --Sammy Sosa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 19:19:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18278 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA10073 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:41:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA09942 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 18:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d17-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.17]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA17653 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 08:41:24 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: small composter... or worm farm? Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 08:43:27 +1000 Message-ID: <000001bea95b$80badac0$113325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990528110013.007b9370@crocker.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1099 Mark I think you are right if you are using lots of material. however, a bin made with 4 pallets, if you are using pallets as-is, is actually enormous in capacity, and is effective if lots of material keeps going in, or (better) goes in at one time and is well managed all the time. Just the thing for an industrious urban activist! Kate It's not clear whether you are planning to deal with the kitchen scraps or you have lots of weeding, grass or other vegetable material to put in. Mark's design is not suitable for bit-by-bit kitchen material, is it Mark? - you can't get such a wet scrap loading system hot, and heat and air and aerobic processes are basic to Mark's design. The plastic bins are more designed for kitchen scraps and they depend in part on anaerobic processes, which gives them their tendency to stink if too wet, or if there is too much inappropriate material. They can be temperamental. The question then becomes, Kate, whether you might be better off, if small amount of kitchen scraps are involved, making a worm farm yourself. This can be done on a very small scale with two bins of some kind, stackable, which will fit tightly above each other. They can sit outside the kitchen door, out of the weather, out of the direct sun to avoid baking and evaporation. I can't advise you on the local dogs and cats - the thing obviously needs to be hard to tip over. You need a fly stopping, smell stopping lid for the two bins, and you need a bit of fly screen scrap and glue suitable for glueing the mesh to whatever the bins are made of. Use the mesh to close hand-hold holes in the bins or any other holes flies can enter. If there are no side holes, you needs some, near the top of each bin, where hand holes would be. Cut a few holes in the floor of the top bin, about an inch square, and mesh those too, so as to keep the solids and the worms in the top and allow liquid to fall through into the bottom bin, which thus must have a sound, no-leaks bottom and most of the sides. Keep the top bin moist, with an occasional rinsing pint of water over the contents. The bin at the bottom will contain the finest of liquid manure, which you should dilute. Fancy worm farms have taps in this bottom bin. Make sure the top bin is not going to be too heavy to lift off when loaded (and this is why you don't want to use styrofoam boxes because sometime such a box will come apart in your arms), and that you have a tray to sit its wet bottom on while you tip the contents (accumulate a few inches only at a time, don't wait for it to fill) of the bottom bin into a bucket. This is a very simple design: I would suggest you look at stackable bins you may have, or cheap storage bins and then look at commercially available worm farms in a garden shop. Ask all the questions you can, read the instructions and decide if you want to make a basic model yourself, as above, using principles which you will see in any such device -- or buy such a thing to take home. Lots of the commercial worm farms have three decks, allowing scraps to go in at the top, worm castings to be taken out at the middle, liquid at the bottom (the worms can travel through holes between the top and middle). My two deck machine came to grief when I put in, experimentally, stupidly, wood fire ash (wondering whether the potassium would wash though nicely), without noticing there were still some hot coals. Came back later to find the whole thing smelling much worse than compost, plastic sides melting less than artistically in several places, worms baked. But it worked before that,. The system depended no on getting worm castings broken down and washed through to the bottom with the occasional shower of water rinse. Some analysts have pointed to the very close resemblance between worm castings and the solid material (cow manure over-wintered in buried cow horns) dissolved in water to make Rudolph Steiner's Preparation 500, used by biodynamic farmers. What you get in the bottom of the worm farm is very potent indeed, and may well be worth holding to apply at full moon, if you follow such ideas. Oh, you will want to buy some worms for such a thing, or get some from a friend who has a good solid, suburban composter which should have masses of worms at some point in its strata - but not from Mark's pallet sized composter, his worms want a hot environment. Mark wrote >I stand by my experience with pallets in an urban setting Kate wrote >Does anyone out there have any suggestions for a composter that fits a small city lot? I do not have much space or extra cash. There are houses close on all sides so I have to be careful with smell and appearance for my neighbor's sake. Any ideas? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri May 28 20:17:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA18904 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 20:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA17352 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:40:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17269 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA07921 for ; Fri, 28 May 1999 19:39:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d41-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.41]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA23971; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:39:38 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Michele Gale-Sinex/CIAS, UW-Madison" , Subject: chickens and other early weekend musings Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 09:41:42 +1000 Message-ID: <001b01bea963$a3a97200$113325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199905282241.RAA26943@aae.wisc.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1100 misha you wrote in praise of these creatures at the end of your wonderful, cautionary rat discourse. I think also the urban attitude to 'chooks' (as we call them down here in Oz - nice non sexist, no-ageist name) derives from urban attitudes to roosters and sleep and the quaint idea among many folks that hens need roosters to lay eggs [huh, bicycles]. I would add also in praise of chooks that two or three require only a few square metres, if they have sun, shelter and lots of dirt. Ours at times are certainly better to watch than television and way smarter than most people in this street. It's salutary, in a government town, with its at times wooden-headed sense of bureaucratic hierarchy, to sit outside and see what a pecking order really is. Another factor in anti-chookery arises from attitudes to dirt [the chronic urban disorder of antiseptic organophobia). Most city folk go pale at the kinds of thoughts in Bill Duesing's item on 'soil and intestines'. I go way beyond Duesing, so close your eyes. I myself am of the view that we will only understand our place in the overall ecology when we accept that higher organisms are just games played by mitochondria to keep away from the oxygen atmosphere, and skeletons just a neat set of party ideas for keeping calcium in its place and out of the cytosol. I tried to discuss this with the chooks last night but they went to bed and the family dragged me inside and made me grill chicken. cheers Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 01:12:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22393 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 01:12:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA10334 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA10317 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22268 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA14540 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 00:43:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 00:43:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Is BT potentially dangerous? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1101 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:46:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob Batson Subject: Is BT potentially dangerous? >From the AGNET-L Mailing List: RED FLAG FOR GREEN SPRAY May 29, 1999 New Scientist Debora Mackenzie According to this story, French researchers have found that inhaling the spores of Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt, sprayed on organic crops as a pesticide can cause lung inflammation, internal bleeding and death in laboratory mice. The story notes that dried Bt spores have been used as a pesticide for more than 30 years and are one of the very few insecticides sanctioned for use on organic crops in Europe. Bt is also widely used to combat pest such as the spruce budworm, a caterpillar that attacks trees. Last year, French scientists isolated a strain of Bt that destroyed tissue in the wounds of a French soldier in Bosnia. The strain, known as H34, also infected wounds in immunosuppressed mice (This Week, 30 May 1998, p 7). Now the same team has found that H34 can kill mice with intact immune systems if they inhale the spores. Francoise Ramisse of le Bouchet army research laboratories near Paris and her colleagues were cited as finding that healthy mice inhaling 108 spores of Bt H34 died within eight hours from internal bleeding and tissue damage. Spores from mutants of the same strain which did not produce the insecticide were equally lethal to mice, suggesting that it was not to blame. Ramisse and her colleagues presented their results at a conference in Paris last month. The researchers think that the symptoms are caused by other toxins. The bacterium's close cousin, Bacillus cereus, produces a toxin that ruptures cell membranes. And in 1991, Japanese researchers showed that B. thuringiensis produces the same toxin. In fact, when the French researchers ran samples from the soldier from Bosnia through an automated medical analyser, it seemed to show that the bacterium was B. cereus. Ramisse suggest that companies producing Bt spores might make them safer by deleting the promoter sequence that activates the gene for the membrane-rupturing toxin. Although H34 is not used as a pesticide, commercial strains of Bt tested by the researchers also killed some mice or caused lung inflammation when inhaled. The team obtained these strains from Abbott Laboratories, a major supplier of Bt based in Chicago. Ramisse points out that the strains are sprayed on forest pests at concentrations of 1011 spores per square metre--and so might pose a danger to people in the immediate vicinity. But Abbott maintains that Bt is safe. Linda Gretton, a company spokeswoman, was quoted as saying, "We stand by our products." The French researchers have not yet tested strains made by other companies. The story notes that recorded infections by Bacillus pathogens are comparatively rare. Known pathogenic species can have very distinctive symptoms. Anthrax, for instance, is caused by B. anthracis. But where such tell-tale signs are absent, Ramisse suspects that doctors often fail to recognise that the bacteria are responsible, dismissing any Bacillus in patients' cultures as contamination. Consequently, the cultures are often discarded. When Bt was sprayed in towns in Oregon in 1991 to combat gypsy moths, the bacterium was found in clinical samples from 55 patients who had been admitted to hospital for a variety of other reasons. Robert Haward of the Soil Association, which represents Britain's organic farmers, was cited as saying that they may have to use masks and take more care when spraying the spores on crops. ==================================================================== Bob Batson L 39 12 14 N 94 33 16 W bob@sky.net Kansas City TCS - Mystic Fire Priest USDA zone 5b ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Under the most controlled conditions, the experimental apparatus will do exactly as it pleases. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 05:30:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA23914 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 05:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA18955 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 04:47:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA18844 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 04:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool006-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.6]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13338; Sat, 29 May 1999 01:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <374E17B2.56233107@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:12:34 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas M. Hinds" CC: Argall Family , Roberto Verzola , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Chili Concentrate References: <000c01bea7cd$ec216b60$303325cb@p2> <199905270719170970.0898BDB1@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1102 Don't know if I am repeating myself here, but the real facts about insect attraction were summed up by Dr. Phil Callahan long ago, and since corroborated. It is always the nutrition of the plant that makes the difference. The plant sends out a message to the insect, and that is done by electromagnetic spectrum wavelengths. That is so clearly the truth, and I made it a very strong point to include the data in the Primer UPDATE and even in the Primer BASICS. What really makes the difference it seems is usually the trace minerals. That is why using seaweed gives so much strength to the plant--every possible trace mineral the plant can use is there, and the proportions have to be perfect for plants, because seaweed is itself a plant--is the only "fertilizer" that has the perfect proportions just because it is a plant and can have absolutely anything it could possibly want, being in the ocean. Mr. Chapman's mycorrhizae are just smart enough to go thru the soil hunting for all such minerals and any other molecules of importance for growth. If you give the soil the advantage of seaweed too, the mycorrhizae can really have a ball. That is one reason, I think, why my Enzoom mix gives such startling results, sometimes, because it is made by growing harmless bacteria in a seaweed solution, then killing them without heat, so they break up and release into the seaweed solution all the amino acids, proteins, sugars, CHOs, etc etc, but also the minerals that had already been found useful by the bacteria and utilized for their own growth. When you add the benefits of the mycorrhizal searches for every tiny last bit of nutrients, you get the real boost to growth. So,. thanks again, Mr. Chapman, for sending me those 2 superhappy tomato plants. Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > Hello, > > >the addition of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron > >deficiency, ...as main attractant for bugs > > You are implying that the neither the Hot Chili Pepper nor the Garlic present in the solution applied were significant contributing factors to the aphids' disappearance? It would be interesting (and important) to verify this by doing another series of tests with more controls. What are the possibilities of doing that on your end (in deference to the antecedents you already have behind you)? Or perhaps there are others receiving this that may be better positioned to do this sooner. A soil analysis to determine the existence of a boron (or other micronutrient) deficiency would also help correlate your supposition (which I have no quarrel with - my interest is in corroborating it). > > D H > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 27/05/99 at 9:17 AM Argall Family wrote: > > >I have in the past combined chili, pepper, garlic, clay, without real > >benefit, until I added a very small amount of borax, in the opinion of an > >entomologist scarcely enough to annoy ants working aphids. But the addition > >of the borax worked, aphids disappeared, which led me to assume a boron > >deficiency, quite likely in our wet environment. I tend to come back to > >suspecting soil deficiency as main attractant for bugs, and the need to work > >on nutrition while getting rid of the immediate problem. > > > >Dennis > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > Douglas M. Hinds > Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) > (Center for Community and Rural Development) > Petronilo Lopez No. 73 > Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO > e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 07:37:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA24377 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 07:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA14495 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 06:50:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA14417 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 06:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sat, 29 May 1999 06:54:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: COMMUNITY-BASED FORESTRY INITIATIVE Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 06:54:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1103 -----Original Message----- From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov [mailto:owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov] Sent: Friday, May 28, 1999 3:24 PM *** New Grant Program *** Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk COMMUNITY-BASED FORESTRY INITIATIVE Funded by The Ford Foundation. Project Managers: The Aspen Institute Rural Economic Policy Program and The Pinchot Institute for Conservation A Request for Proposals (RFP) has been announced by the Ford Foundation for short-term organizational development grants for domestic community-based forestry projects. This is a planning component, and is the first phase of what will become a multi-year initiative. Phase One is designed to help grantees refine their strategic plan and/or project concept prior to moving on to implementation. Each proposal will need to address three key aspects of the project: social, environmental and economic. Fifteen to twenty awards will be made, up to $40,000 each. Proposals for Phase One are due July 1, 1999. The selection team is looking for a mix of applicants (including small emerging organizations) whose proposed paths seem relevant to the larger field of community-based forestry and who stand a reasonable chance of succeeding at the project that they propose. The full RFP is available on-line at http://www.aspeninstitute.org/rural/. You may also contact the Initiative managers by e-mail at forestry@aspeninstitute.org or phone at (202) 736-3851, or write to us at Ford Foundation Community Forestry Initiative, c/o The Aspen Institute, One Dupont Circle N.W., Suite 700, Washington DC 20036. Please do not contact the Ford Foundation directly. -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 09:40:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25474 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14696 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:11:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14642 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FLYLO (ppp200.cy-net.net [208.21.195.9]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA08850 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 08:11:24 -0500 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BEA9AA.EF289020@FLYLO>; Sat, 29 May 1999 08:12:03 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA9AA.EF289020@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: worm bin thread Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 08:11:54 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1104 I wanted to comment on the composter thread that is involving worm bins. I have two cheap rubbermaid bins and did NOT drill holes, give any other air circulation other than what comes in through the (not air/water tight) snap connection between lids and boxes. I started out with one bin and when they seemed too crowded, divided them into another one. I use shredded newspaper for their bedding, and add kitchen scraps mostly. If you put the scraps in one corner at a time, and cover with the bedding, there is no smell. Occasionally they get a 'pick me up' of 1/4 cup of cornmeal or goat chow, but this actually seems to act as a reproductive stimulant for some reason. These live underneath my kitchen table, so I'd be aware of any bacterial changes if they did smell. BUT, they are not for large scale composting. They may take 2 weeks to decompose coffeegrounds, and months to take away an eggshell. If you have a lot of kitchen scraps, you'll need an outside compost system (pallets work for me) as well. We have chickens that take the bulk of any kitchen wastes and only choice morsels go to the earthworm bins, and almost no leftovers for the compost bins. Those rely on the spent straw and manure and garden weeding with the occasional old milk tossed in. I agree, innercity living would be nice if hens were allowed. A lot of wasted stuff could go to them, and you'd get a lot more benefit (in my opinion) via healthy meat and eggs in return, than the benefits earthworms can provide. I lived in Houston very innercity, and several neighbors had chickens, but would butcher the roosters early so very little crowing to announce their presence. Rabbits can also be raised in small spaces and are a lot quieter. (But eat less variety of kitchen scraps). martha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 10:36:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25736 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21590 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:07:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from toolbox.total.net (toolbox.total.net [205.236.175.109]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21470 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19170 invoked from network); 29 May 1999 14:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO windows98) (216.210.34.13) by smtp.total.net with SMTP; 29 May 1999 14:07:09 -0000 Message-ID: <032101bea9db$d24f58e0$381ed2d8@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: , Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1061 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:01:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1105 On the urban compost front: Michelle, who is swell, wrote that "rats are bad"---(she gave all the details and I won't go into them, but I agree....) and that one should compost urbanely, in a manner that does not attract rats, and I agree again, since not only are there public health reasons to raise a hue and cry over urban rats, but also yer neighbors will tend to shun you, if yer composting methods invite rodentia, flies, or other evil 'vectors' into their lives.....:-) These are sufficiently 'whoop-tee-doo' reasons for me, plus I truly despise the smell of rats.... I have composted in Baltimore (large 'suburban' lot in Lauraville) and in Montreal---balcony composting, and I presently compost using Dennis's 'worm farm' paradigm, which I arrived at willy-nilly, but have since learned is the next best thing to having a cow, from a biodynamic point of view (see this year's Stella Natura for details). My present suburban composting system on a 6,000 sq ft lot involves a line of pallet bins about 50 feet long along the back fence line, about four feet deep. Feedstocks include leaves, grass clippings, and chipped branch wood, as well as all kitchen wastes. My neighbors donate their yardwastes cheerfully; my motto is "All donations gratefully accepted!" I have never had a rodent problem, in 28 years of composting. I think this is because I undestand the idea that once the microbes have truly had their way with food stuffs, it is no longer of interest to rats and other pests; my tasty morsels go into the deep part of a hot pile, and are surrounded immediately by absorptive brown materials (the brown-surround strategy!) In other words, to win the rat race, give the microherd a head start! Now, for a cheap composter in the city, it is hard to beat ye old trash can. A 120 liter Rubbermaid Bruiser can, with little wheels and a lid you could take the plug out of to avoid anaerobia, cost less than ten bucks US when I was in Florida this spring, and is about 15$ Cdn here. (120 liters is about 4 cubic feet) Some people will tell you to perforate the can for aeration, but I prefer to insert a perforated pipe down the center, or even to make aeration channels with a piece of rebar (about 2$ for a 3-4 foot length). A good book describing the options of the urban composter is The Urban/Sububurban Composter by Mark Cullen and Lorraine Johnson, 1994, St. Martin's Press, ISBN 0-312-10530-4. It has a realistic discussion of rats and refers you to the people at City Farmer for methods of rat proofing composters---hardware cloth is rat proof, chicken wire isn't, for example. The key for my own success in balcony composting lay in managing and mixing the feedstocks. We used a Vita-Mix to blend our kitchen wastes into a slurry, then added a small amount of finished compost and an amount of peat moss adequate to bring the moisture content down to 40-50%. The blending meant we could gauge the long term moisture of the mixture right from the beginning; if you only chop the vegetable matter, it will take some time for them to break down and liberate their water, so you need to anticipate this with extra absorptive materials. Seeds such as melon seeds are of interest to rodents, and if you blend nothing else, it is good to blend them prior to composting so that they will be fully accessible to the microherd, and thus not hang around for your Chompin' Charlie undesirable types...:-) If you are feeling the anti-peat beat, other browns for town include sawdust (favored by the Oligowskis), shredded leaves, wood shavings or wood chips, chopped straw, etc. Trash cans are small enough and mobile, that you can move them easily, turn the contents of one into another, and if one fills up, buying another won't break the bank! They also make a very acceptable wheelbarrow substitute for small lots, are useful to hold tools in, and are a good place to store nearly-finished compost---(maintain aeration please!) And, if you do choose wood chips or other bulky, slow to break down materials, you can easily make a riddle that fits on top of your cans, so that you can sift the material to get the good stuff out and recycle your bulkies for the next batch. (This can be referred to as separating the sheep from the goats---or the humic colloids from the ligno-cellulose! :-) Leaves and yard wastes are generally unattractive to rats, IME, and a simple piece of turkey fence can be adequate for holding such materials. Your food waste compost, once it has mostly broken down, can be added into the center of the leaf pile to add nutrients and speed the decomposition, and worms also will hasten the movement towards humus. I have found it helpful to line leaf containers with geotextile and cover the pile with same, which slows the drying out of the outsides of the pile while allowing air in. Frank Teuton---a trash can fan, for the urban Fran or Stan, who is not budgeted for a ComposTumbler (I'll pay $2.50/cubic foot, but not ten times that, thank you very much...:-) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 10:36:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25738 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21607 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:07:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from toolbox.total.net (toolbox.total.net [205.236.175.109]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21465 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19170 invoked from network); 29 May 1999 14:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO windows98) (216.210.34.13) by smtp.total.net with SMTP; 29 May 1999 14:07:09 -0000 Message-ID: <032101bea9db$d24f58e0$381ed2d8@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: , Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1061 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:01:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1106 On the urban compost front: Michelle, who is swell, wrote that "rats are bad"---(she gave all the details and I won't go into them, but I agree....) and that one should compost urbanely, in a manner that does not attract rats, and I agree again, since not only are there public health reasons to raise a hue and cry over urban rats, but also yer neighbors will tend to shun you, if yer composting methods invite rodentia, flies, or other evil 'vectors' into their lives.....:-) These are sufficiently 'whoop-tee-doo' reasons for me, plus I truly despise the smell of rats.... I have composted in Baltimore (large 'suburban' lot in Lauraville) and in Montreal---balcony composting, and I presently compost using Dennis's 'worm farm' paradigm, which I arrived at willy-nilly, but have since learned is the next best thing to having a cow, from a biodynamic point of view (see this year's Stella Natura for details). My present suburban composting system on a 6,000 sq ft lot involves a line of pallet bins about 50 feet long along the back fence line, about four feet deep. Feedstocks include leaves, grass clippings, and chipped branch wood, as well as all kitchen wastes. My neighbors donate their yardwastes cheerfully; my motto is "All donations gratefully accepted!" I have never had a rodent problem, in 28 years of composting. I think this is because I undestand the idea that once the microbes have truly had their way with food stuffs, it is no longer of interest to rats and other pests; my tasty morsels go into the deep part of a hot pile, and are surrounded immediately by absorptive brown materials (the brown-surround strategy!) In other words, to win the rat race, give the microherd a head start! Now, for a cheap composter in the city, it is hard to beat ye old trash can. A 120 liter Rubbermaid Bruiser can, with little wheels and a lid you could take the plug out of to avoid anaerobia, cost less than ten bucks US when I was in Florida this spring, and is about 15$ Cdn here. (120 liters is about 4 cubic feet) Some people will tell you to perforate the can for aeration, but I prefer to insert a perforated pipe down the center, or even to make aeration channels with a piece of rebar (about 2$ for a 3-4 foot length). A good book describing the options of the urban composter is The Urban/Sububurban Composter by Mark Cullen and Lorraine Johnson, 1994, St. Martin's Press, ISBN 0-312-10530-4. It has a realistic discussion of rats and refers you to the people at City Farmer for methods of rat proofing composters---hardware cloth is rat proof, chicken wire isn't, for example. The key for my own success in balcony composting lay in managing and mixing the feedstocks. We used a Vita-Mix to blend our kitchen wastes into a slurry, then added a small amount of finished compost and an amount of peat moss adequate to bring the moisture content down to 40-50%. The blending meant we could gauge the long term moisture of the mixture right from the beginning; if you only chop the vegetable matter, it will take some time for them to break down and liberate their water, so you need to anticipate this with extra absorptive materials. Seeds such as melon seeds are of interest to rodents, and if you blend nothing else, it is good to blend them prior to composting so that they will be fully accessible to the microherd, and thus not hang around for your Chompin' Charlie undesirable types...:-) If you are feeling the anti-peat beat, other browns for town include sawdust (favored by the Oligowskis), shredded leaves, wood shavings or wood chips, chopped straw, etc. Trash cans are small enough and mobile, that you can move them easily, turn the contents of one into another, and if one fills up, buying another won't break the bank! They also make a very acceptable wheelbarrow substitute for small lots, are useful to hold tools in, and are a good place to store nearly-finished compost---(maintain aeration please!) And, if you do choose wood chips or other bulky, slow to break down materials, you can easily make a riddle that fits on top of your cans, so that you can sift the material to get the good stuff out and recycle your bulkies for the next batch. (This can be referred to as separating the sheep from the goats---or the humic colloids from the ligno-cellulose! :-) Leaves and yard wastes are generally unattractive to rats, IME, and a simple piece of turkey fence can be adequate for holding such materials. Your food waste compost, once it has mostly broken down, can be added into the center of the leaf pile to add nutrients and speed the decomposition, and worms also will hasten the movement towards humus. I have found it helpful to line leaf containers with geotextile and cover the pile with same, which slows the drying out of the outsides of the pile while allowing air in. Frank Teuton---a trash can fan, for the urban Fran or Stan, who is not budgeted for a ComposTumbler (I'll pay $2.50/cubic foot, but not ten times that, thank you very much...:-) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 10:43:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25801 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25240 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:15:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from toolbox.total.net (toolbox.total.net [205.236.175.109]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA25178 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1873 invoked from network); 29 May 1999 14:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO windows98) (216.210.34.13) by smtp.total.net with SMTP; 29 May 1999 14:15:53 -0000 Message-ID: <032401bea9dd$0ab2a920$381ed2d8@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: , Subject: Re: Hens and Bicycles--Dis-encryption Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:10:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1107 Dennis said: >I think also the urban attitude to 'chooks' (as we call them down here in >Oz - nice non sexist, no-ageist name) derives from urban attitudes to >roosters and sleep and the quaint idea among many folks that hens need >roosters to lay eggs [huh, bicycles]. This made me ROFLMAO! Then I realized that some would not get the reference; the old Women's Movement slogan, " A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle!" :-) Of course, for those who split their karmic hairs by eating unfertilized eggs but not fertilized ones, the rooster is verboten any road....:-) Frank--silence is golden, especially when one is trying to sleep in....:-) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 10:45:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25843 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25239 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:15:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from toolbox.total.net (toolbox.total.net [205.236.175.109]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA25177 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 10:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1873 invoked from network); 29 May 1999 14:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO windows98) (216.210.34.13) by smtp.total.net with SMTP; 29 May 1999 14:15:53 -0000 Message-ID: <032401bea9dd$0ab2a920$381ed2d8@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: , Subject: Re: Hens and Bicycles--Dis-encryption Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 10:10:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1108 Dennis said: >I think also the urban attitude to 'chooks' (as we call them down here in >Oz - nice non sexist, no-ageist name) derives from urban attitudes to >roosters and sleep and the quaint idea among many folks that hens need >roosters to lay eggs [huh, bicycles]. This made me ROFLMAO! Then I realized that some would not get the reference; the old Women's Movement slogan, " A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle!" :-) Of course, for those who split their karmic hairs by eating unfertilized eggs but not fertilized ones, the rooster is verboten any road....:-) Frank--silence is golden, especially when one is trying to sleep in....:-) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 12:46:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26843 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA16994 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:20:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA16910 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26525 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [4.16.32.67] (PPPa8-ResaleOakland1-2R1016.saturn.bbn.com [4.16.32.67]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29260 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 09:20:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: greenman@pop2.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199905252210.SAA24230@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 09:19:16 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Douglas B. Johnson" Subject: a forestry question Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1109 Sanenetters, A colleague of mine has taken a sudden interest in conifers. Does anyone have any experience/advice to share? From: Daniel P Haskins Question One of my goals is to try growing pines from their seed cones. We have Norways, Jack Pines, White Pines, Spruce, Scotch Pines and others on the island. Also limited Cedar. Now some of the varieties have the harden cones that I believe need heat/fire to open them. Question is how much and how. Then instead of just scattering the seeds, I want to have a concentrated area of pots to germinate and grow the seedlings, then transplant. Also the potting soil content, I believe should be on the acidic side but how much. Do you know a good site to get all this data? Best Wishes, Douglas B. Johnson, Ph.D. Senior Associate Alameda Center for Environmental Technologies 851 West Midway Avenue Alameda Point Alameda, CA 94501 phone: 510.749.6869 fax: 510.749.6862 email: johnson@greenstart.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 14:09:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27651 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 14:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA02057 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 13:33:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from email1-1 (email.mcleod.net [208.16.32.20]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA02018 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 13:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 40960 invoked from network); 29 May 1999 17:27:37 -0000 Received: from 203-a-35-105.ppp.mcleodusa.net (208.16.35.105) by email.mcleod.net with SMTP; 29 May 1999 17:27:37 -0000 Received: by 203-A-35-105.ppp.mcleodusa.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BEA9CF.3C354100@203-A-35-105.ppp.mcleodusa.net>; Sat, 29 May 1999 12:31:54 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA9CF.3C354100@203-A-35-105.ppp.mcleodusa.net> From: Reap International To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1061 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:24:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEA9CF.3C3E68C0" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1110 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEA9CF.3C3E68C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Compost the rats. Bill ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEA9CF.3C3E68C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjYRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUAU01UUABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUA AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUA AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3NhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5uY3N1LmVkdScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpTQU5FVC1NR0BDRVMuTkNTVS5FRFUAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADYDUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHQAA AFJFOiBzYW5ldC1tZy1kaWdlc3QgVjEgIzEwNjEAbAgBBYADAA4AAADPBwUAHQAMABgADAAGAC4B ASCAAwAOAAAAzwcFAB0ADAAXADoABgBbAQEJgAEAIQAAAEVEODQxN0FGQkUxNUQzMTFBMTIxNDQ0 NTUzNTQwMDAwAOEGAQOQBgDMAQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAA QAA5AMAtUxH4qb4BHgBwAAEAAAAdAAAAUkU6IHNhbmV0LW1nLWRpZ2VzdCBWMSAjMTA2MQAAAAAC AXEAAQAAABYAAAABvqn4EVOvF4TuFb4R06EhREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4A HwwBAAAAEgAAAHJlYXBAcmVhcGludGwuY29tAAAAAwAGEAQjXl8DAAcQEgAAAB4ACBABAAAAEwAA AENPTVBPU1RUSEVSQVRTQklMTAAAAgEJEAEAAACeAAAAmgAAAC0BAABMWkZ1e4hWov8ACgEPAhUC qAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMz9wLkBxMCgzQDRRM1 B20CgC59CoAIzwnZOxg/MjUeNQKACoENsQtgbmcxvDAzFFALChRRC/EgCFAIbXBvE8AgdGhlwCBy YXRzLgqFCoVaQgMQbAqFF2EAH8AAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwABJ4CfipvgFAAAgwABJ4 CfipvgEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAMpc ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEA9CF.3C3E68C0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat May 29 22:57:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01595 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 22:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA11395 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 29 May 1999 22:23:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA11389; Sat, 29 May 1999 22:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA07189; Sat, 29 May 1999 21:23:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-243.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.243) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007169; Sat May 29 21:22:35 1999 Message-ID: <008301beaa42$edfe9300$f3f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Frank Teuton" , , Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1061 Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:20:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1111 Dear Frank, We live on a farm and our compost is just in one big pile but I read every word you wrote, you write in a very entertaining style. I enjoyed it very much. Thank-you Beth Leaves and yard wastes are generally unattractive to rats, IME, and a simple >piece of turkey fence can be adequate for holding such materials. Your food >waste compost, once it has mostly broken down, can be added into the center >of the leaf pile to add nutrients and speed the decomposition, and worms >also will hasten the movement towards humus. I have found it helpful to >line leaf containers with geotextile and cover the pile with same, which >slows the drying out of the outsides of the pile while allowing air in. > > >Frank Teuton---a trash can fan, for the urban Fran or Stan, who is not >budgeted for a ComposTumbler (I'll pay $2.50/cubic foot, but not ten times >that, thank you very much...:-) > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun May 30 03:08:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA03903 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 03:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA11570 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 30 May 1999 02:30:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA11553 for ; Sun, 30 May 1999 02:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool745-cvx.ds61-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.194.235]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22215; Sat, 29 May 1999 23:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3750A441.8B0B0638@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 19:36:49 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martha Wells CC: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: worm bin thread References: <01BEA9AA.EF289020@FLYLO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1112 did you know you can put coffee grounds directly into/onto soil? as Sam Dunbarr says, they are "candy for the earthworms". I have a friend here in town who has a little chicken coop, made by her husband--just a good frame with chicken wire fencing around it, and a little door for her to open to get eggs. I do feel sorry for the chickens, in a way, for being so confined, but maybe the good food and safety make up for lack of freedom. She gets eggs--some--would not be enough for me--but they are good, and eat her kitchen scraps. She also has a fancy worm container she bought, a black thing of 3 layers. Speaking of worm beds, haven't you all heard of Mary Appelhof and her very famous book? She certainly must know all the ins and outs. I still prefer to put the garbage in the special blender jar and whiz it up, then pour the resulting liquid on the ground. It goes in, no ants, not rats, no smell. Martha Wells wrote: > I wanted to comment on the composter thread that is involving worm bins. I > have two cheap rubbermaid bins and did NOT drill holes, give any other air > circulation other than what comes in through the (not air/water tight) snap > connection between lids and boxes. I started out with one bin and when they > seemed too crowded, divided them into another one. I use shredded newspaper > for their bedding, and add kitchen scraps mostly. If you put the scraps in > one corner at a time, and cover with the bedding, there is no smell. > Occasionally they get a 'pick me up' of 1/4 cup of cornmeal or goat chow, > but this actually seems to act as a reproductive stimulant for some reason. > These live underneath my kitchen table, so I'd be aware of any bacterial > changes if they did smell. BUT, they are not for large scale composting. > They may take 2 weeks to decompose coffeegrounds, and months to take away > an eggshell. If you have a lot of kitchen scraps, you'll need an outside > compost system (pallets work for me) as well. > We have chickens that take the bulk of any kitchen wastes and only choice > morsels go to the earthworm bins, and almost no leftovers for the compost > bins. Those rely on the spent straw and manure and garden weeding with the > occasional old milk tossed in. > I agree, innercity living would be nice if hens were allowed. A lot of > wasted stuff could go to them, and you'd get a lot more benefit (in my > opinion) via healthy meat and eggs in return, than the benefits earthworms > can provide. I lived in Houston very innercity, and several neighbors had > chickens, but would butcher the roosters early so very little crowing to > announce their presence. Rabbits can also be raised in small spaces and are > a lot quieter. (But eat less variety of kitchen scraps). > martha > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 31 10:22:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18226 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14216 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:08:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14203 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FLYLO (ppp258.cy-net.net [208.21.195.67]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA31912 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:08:07 -0500 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BEAB3C.81186680@FLYLO>; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:06:36 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEAB3C.81186680@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: chicken thread (sad lament) Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:45:54 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1113 Sanet is supposed to be 'sustainable agriculture', so I think this may be an appropriate place to air a gripe against something that is obviously not (sustainable): We live in a very rural area and more and more folk are putting in chicken factories. Breaks my heart. Drive by on a remotely warm day and you can smell the horrid stench of hot, dying chickens. People complain that they can't sit out on their porches anymore because of the neighbors chicken sheds. In Bryan (Tx) Sanderson Farms put in a large processing plant and is encouraging farmers to put up brooder / broiler houses. In the winter, the 'harvest' isn't quite so bad because they try to drive the ready birds in the dark to the slaughter house. In the warm months, it's daylight at 6am, and I find myself on the road with 18 wheeler truckloads full of terrified chickens. Cages are stacked onto open truck beds, just like apple crates, with the chickens getting full view of the passing terrain. The description of the kill system at the plant makes me hope many die in fright on the way there rather than be subjected to that. I didn't used to be so 'wimpy-hearted', but this is animal cruelty at it's finest. NOT TO MENTION the feed trucks going to the individual chicken ranches have really torn up the roadways, driving heavy vehicles constantly over roads that were never meant to withstand that traffic. I attended a master composting session and one lady was there because she operated chicken broiler houses, and needed a way to dispose of the carcasses of the dead. (composting was not a viable solution for her situation.) Between that and the concentrated chicken litter and spent grain (antibiotics and stimulants in the feed) being washed into the groundwater, these things are going to present a serious problem to us all very soon. Whenever I see 'fryer leg quarters, .19 per lb', I have to wonder at the terror that went into those meals, also the chemicals, the air and water quality and all the other abuses. The poultry industry would have us believe chicken meat is very healthy but I don't think this stuff qualifies. All this talk about GE seed, but livestock fodder is a huge industry, and farmers aren't going to mind putting these grains into their feed blends. Which, of course, inevitably end up in the end consumer via McNuggets. See the link: I'm working at the Med center (temporarily I hope) and this hospital is opening it's doors to the 2nd Heart Cath Lab on site. The other main hospital now has it's 3rd cath lab going full swing. Both centers' radiology wings aren't far behind either. (And Bryan/College Station Tx are not large cities.) If 'you are what you eat', than I suppose this is the chicken's way of saying "Touche, old chap." Sorry if this was off topic after all, but I needed a place to vent. martha end To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 31 10:23:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18242 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 10:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA28413 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:45:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA28314 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 08:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 31 May 1999 09:41:29 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:41:24 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Companion Planting in Africa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1114 Companion planting watchers might find the following article interesting reading.... *********************************************************** From: New Scientist, 24 October 1998 p. 25 by Fred Pearce Farmer's Friend Grasses that grow wild across Kenya can double yields of maize, Africa's most important grain crop. Trials in which the grasses were grown alongside maize have proved so successful that they are about to be repeated in three other African countries. The grasses do battle with the stem borer, a caterpillar that decimates maize yields in millions of fields across eastern and southern Africa. When planted around the edges of fields, some spieces attract the moths that lay stem borer eggs, then secrete a gum that kills the caterpillars. They also attract the borer's worst foe, a parasitic wasp. Other grasses, if planted between rows of maize, keep the moths away by giving off an unpleasant smell. The grasses also fend off a second major threat to maize crops. a weed called Striga that attaches itself to the plants' roots. Between them, Striga and stem borers typically cause a 40 per cent loss of maize. Scientists at the research station at Mbita Point on the shores of Lake Victoria have tested four of these grass species -- Sudan (Sorghum vulgare), napier (Pennisetum purpureum), silverleaf (Desmodium uncinatum) and molasses (Melinis minutiflora) -- on 150 Kenyan farms. They proved so successful that the British-based Gatsby Charitable Foundation, which funded the research, is extending the programme to Uganda, Tanzania and Ethiopia. "These grasses are the same ones that farmers used to grow for fodder," says Zeyaur Khan, the project's coordinator. ! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon May 31 21:15:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25706 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 21:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA07318 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:42:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vortex.more.net (vortex.more.net [198.209.253.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA07258 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from COFO.EDU (cofo.edu [209.106.220.1]) by vortex.more.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17697; Mon, 31 May 1999 19:42:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906010042.TAA17697@vortex.more.net> Received: from NOVELL-1/SpoolDir by COFO.EDU (Mercury 1.44); 31 May 99 19:36:17 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by NOVELL-1 (Mercury 1.44); 31 May 99 19:36:00 +1100 From: "Mark Hubbard" Organization: College of the Ozarks To: "Douglas B. Johnson" Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 19:35:54 CST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: a forestry question CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: References: <199905252210.SAA24230@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1115 > Question > One of my goals is to try growing pines from their seed cones. We have > Norways, Jack Pines, White Pines, Spruce, Scotch Pines and others on the > island. Also limited Cedar. (I'm not sure which island he may be referring to?) > Now some of the varieties have the harden cones that I believe need > heat/fire to open them. Question is how much and how. Of the pines listed, jack pine is the only one for which fire (heat) will aid cone drying and opening, but even for that species "some cones open every year [without fire]." (from USDA Ag. Handbook 271). I would venture a guess that an hour in an oven at about 200 degrees F would open 'em. > Then instead of just scattering the seeds, I want to have a concentrated > area of pots to germinate and grow the seedlings, then transplant. Also > the potting soil content, I believe should be on the acidic side but how > much. The pines you've listed should all do well with a pH in the range of 4.5 - 6.5 and well-drained soil. Hope this helps and I let me know if I can help further! Mark Hubbard, PhD Department of Agriculture College of the Ozarks Pt. Lookout, MO 65726 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 00:25:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA28851 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA10068 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:53:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from prontomail13.prontomail.com ([209.185.149.113]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09998 for ; Mon, 31 May 1999 23:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tonictriad (209.185.149.204) by prontomail13.prontomail.com (NPlex 2.0.123) for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 31 May 1999 20:50:52 -0700 From: "Mel Lefebvre" Message-Id: <199905312050161@tonictriad.music.com> Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:51:44 -0400 X-Priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Reply-To: tonictriad@music.com Subject: possible effects of GMO's on Autism X-Mailer: Web Based Pronto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1116 Hello all I'm absolutely new on this list so I'm not informed on whatever discussion os going around right now... I was given this list as a referral to aid me in my research. As I just said, I'm doing some research on the possible effects of Genetically engineered food (organisms) on "mental"* dissabilities, such as Autism, p.d.d, a.d.d, a.d.h.d, m.s, pschisophrenia, etc. *= It was recently discovered that these disorders are not, in fact, mental disabilities, but rather, they are caused due to weak immune systems, which in turn causes severe reactions to certain foods, such as, food with caecine or gluten. It is these allergic reactions which are partly and most probably to blame for these "mental" disorders. The role that GMO's play in my research is that, there is no solid proof that ge foods are safe for humans, in fact, there have been studies on smaller animals that proved that GE foods are very harmful. If these people, who have abnormally weak immune systems are eating these foods that are bad for us supposed "normal" people, imagine what harm these altered foods could be doing to them. If anyone has any coments, questions or any information that would be helpful, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, --Mel "... boldness has genius and power in it. Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, do it Now. ______________________ E-mail @music.com It's free! It's hot! It's yours! Sign up today at http://www.music.com/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 11:13:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05450 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17249 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17113 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05114 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990601101545.007bc9b0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:15:45 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: college town clarification In-Reply-To: <199905291052.GAA16936@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1117 At 06:52 AM 5/29/99 -0400, you wrote: >When I say urban, I'm not talking a college town, like Mark's >- --Amherst, Mass.--nestled on the plain between the Berkshires and >scenic route 202, sprinkled with some of the Seven Sisters. Sorry, but my experience with small composters is not in this lovely and thankfully now much quieter college town. I just work here. It was in the urban village of Turners Falls, a densely populated (on a much smaller scale) little burg by the CT river. Yes, roaches and rats live there too; fortunately not in as great an abundance as DC. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 11:18:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05564 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA26961 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:26:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26893 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.165] (ke-ppp15.hevanet.com [198.5.254.165]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA07959; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 07:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906011426.HAA07959@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 07:30:38 -0700 Subject: FW: Safeguarding Sprouts Against Contamination From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA26907 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1118 Does anything this stupid even NEED a comment? ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Safeguarding Sprouts Against Contamination Date: Tue, Jun 1, 1999, 6:32 AM STORY LEAD: Food Irradiation and Chlorine Team Up to Kill E. coli O157:H7 and Salmonella ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 1, 1999 Doris Stanley Lowe, (301) 893-6727, dstanley@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Treating alfalfa seeds and sprouts with a combination of irradiation and chlorine effectively safeguards them against contamination by E. coli O157:H7 and Salmonella, Agricultural Research Service scientists report. ARS scientists Donald W. Thayer, Kathleen T. Rajkowski and William F. Fett found that a treatment of irradiation and chlorine solution not only killed both organisms, but extended the shelf life of sprouts from about five days to more than a week. They conducted the lab studies at the ARS Eastern Regional Research Center's Food Safety and Plant Science and Technology Research Units in Wyndmoor, Pennsylvania. The research is part of the effort by a task force of representatives from several Federal Government agencies and industry to find ways to control microbial contamination of sprouts . The finding is good news for sprout growers. Since 1995, raw alfalfa sprouts have been recognized as a source of foodborne illness in the United States, with several outbreaks of both E. coli O157:H7 and Salmonella. FDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have advised those at high riskincluding children, the elderly, and persons with compromised immune systemsto avoid eating raw alfalfa sprouts. Since sprouts can't withstand abrasive physical washing because of their fragility, cleaning the seed has become the primary focus. In the tests, the scientists used the irradiation dose approved for irradiating meat. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved ionizing radiation as a safe and effective food preservation tool. Along with irradiation, they subjected alfalfa seeds to 2-percent, 2.5-percent, and 3-percent weight-per-volume concentrations of calcium hypochlorite (a chlorine source). A 3-percent concentration equals about 20,000 parts per million of available chlorine. With a neutral pH of about 7, the 2.5 and 3-percent concentrations reduced E. coli O157:H7 99.99 percent. The pH level is important because at a higher pH level, such as 10, the chlorine would change to a form that would not be as effective in killing bacteria. According to the scientists, the best way to eliminate pathogens would be a combination of irradiation and sanitation treatments. This is because sprouts can be contaminated internally, which would prevent a surface disinfectant from working effectively. ARS is USDA's chief scientific research agency. More information on this story appears in the agency's June Agricultural Research magazine, available at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jun99/food0699.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Donald W. Thayer, ARS Food Safety Research Unit, Eastern Regional Research Center, Wyndmoor, PA 19038, phone (215) 233-6582, fax (215) 233-6406, dthayer@arserrc.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 11:19:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05575 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02734 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:34:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gold.wvnet.edu (gold.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02721 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:34:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu (pss10961.caf.wvu.edu) by gold.wvnet.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0000BF70@gold.wvnet.edu>; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:40:51 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990601103337.006b72d8@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:33:37 -0400 To: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com>, Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Lozier Subject: Re: Soil and Human Intestines In-Reply-To: <199905280930_MC2-776D-D745@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1119 Very, very interesting, about the beneficial critters living inside us. I wonder what the dry mass of independent organisms living within a human being amounts to. I mean, relative to the human part of our body. Anybody know? I saw a statement about this recently giving a number so high I simply could not believe it, so I won't reveal it. Till later. I hope Bill or someone else can make a stab at an answer, maybe from Dr. Baker. Thanks. John Lozier, harper for harmony At 09:27 AM 5/28/99 -0400, BILL DUESING wrote: >In a recent talk at Yale University, Sidney Baker, a physician from Weston, >clearly connected the digestive processes in the soil, with similar >processes inside the human body. Apparently, every adult has a surface the >size of a tennis court lining his or her intestines. This surface is >inhabited by bacteria and fungi similar to those found in healthy soil. >According to Dr. Baker, the one hundred trillion organisms in each human's >gut constitute the second largest organ in the body. This "organ" which is >integral to our nutrition but is not genetically human, is metabolically >active and changeable. It contains over 300 species, mostly bacteria with >a few kinds of fungi. > >These intestinal organisms perform numerous chemical functions. From the >passing stream of food, they synthesize vitamins, turn fiber into the >nutrients needed by cells lining the intestines, and create >metabolically-active substances which have effects throughout the body. A >healthy, balanced intestinal ecosystem is as important to our well-being as >fertile soil is to a healthy garden. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 12:10:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA06716 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA28683 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:19:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA28626 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:19:16 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 86256783.0053E753; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:16:27 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 86256783.0054606E ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:21:37 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, ncrsare@unl.edu, pdpstco@unl.edu, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu, ncrsarenews@unl.edu, foodnet@lists.tmn.com Message-ID: <86256783.00545E9C.01@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:21:31 -0500 Subject: North Central SARE grant applications available 7/16 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1120 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 1, 1999 For applications, CONTACT: North Central Region SARE 402-472-7081 402-472-0280 (fax) ncrsare@unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare For more information, CONTACT: Lisa Bauer, Communications Specialist 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) lbauer2@unl.edu **** Usher in the New Millennium with a Sustainable Agriculture Grant from North Central Region SARE **** Lincoln, NE -- The USDA's North Central Region (NCR) Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program is calling for innovative researchers, educators, institutions and organizations to apply for competitive grants that will boost producers' profits, protect the environment and support healthy communities in the new millennium and beyond. Approximately $1.3 million will be available in 2000 to fund creative projects addressing long-term enhancement of food and fiber systems in the 12-state region. "We will enter the year 2000 with our strong vision for the survival of the small- to mid-sized farm, for the protection of our natural resources, and for the improvement of our rural and urban communities," said Alan Schlegel, NCR SARE Administrative Council chair from Kansas State University. "This round of research and education grants will continue to carry out that vision." Research and Education Priority Areas for 2000 will be outlined in the Call for Preproposals and will contain topics such as diversifying farming systems, sustainable livestock systems, marketing sustainable products, and environmentally sound management practices. The NCR SARE program encourages preproposals that include holistic approaches, involvement of interdisciplinary teams, meaningful participation of farmers and ranchers, significant outreach, and an eye for measurable results. Applications are available July 16, 1999, by contacting the NCR SARE office at 402-472-7081, 402-472-0280 (fax), or ncrsare@unl.edu. The Call for Preproposals can also be found at www.sare.org/ncrsare on July 16. Preproposals are due on September 10, 1999. The Administrative Council will invite project coordinators to develop preproposals into full proposals in December 1999; selected full proposals will be recommended for funding in May 2000, and funds will be available in the fall of 2000 to begin project work. Applicants must reside in the North Central Region: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. The Research and Education Grant Program was first funded by Congress in 1988; nearly 200 research and education grants have been awarded in the NCR since then, worth more than $13 million. The national SARE program began with the 1985 Farm Bill. Congress appropriated initial funds in 1988 for grants in sustainable agriculture research, education and demonstration. Funding goes to producers, scientists, educators and public and private institutions and organizations in three grant programs. The North Central Region, managed by a diverse Administrative Council and directed by two regional coordinators, is one of four regions in the SARE Program. ### Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) lbauer2@unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 12:41:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07433 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:41:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19721 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:52:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19669 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:56:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'jg16@cornell.edu'" Subject: NETSN WebSite Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:56:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1121 Forwarded: Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 15:31:58 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy Green Subject: NETSN WebSite The Northeast Training and Support Network for Agriculture Development website is now up and running. It contains over 30 agriculture development project profiles from all around the Northeast region - quite an impressive body of work! Many thanks to Joan Padula here at FAP for putting it all together, and to Maureen Maloney Robb for organizing the Profiles. To get to it, go to the Farming Alternatives Program website: http://www.cals.cornell.edu/dept/ruralsoc/fap/fap.html Click on Northeast Training and Support Network. Scroll to the bottom of the first screen and click on project Profiles or Project Overviews (short summaries) We welcome your ideas for further developing the site. We will begin to add key linkages soon. Suggestions welcome. Judy Green jg16@cornell.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 13:36:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08508 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA20836 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:41:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tully.jetstream.net (tully.jetstream.net [207.23.175.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA20815 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.23.187.188] (I138-P56.jetstream.net [207.23.187.138]) by tully.jetstream.net (8.8.7/SCO5) with ESMTP id JAA28819 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199905312210.SAA00617@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:44:56 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Rebecca Kneen Subject: Re: chicken thread Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1122 >All this talk about GE seed, but livestock fodder is a huge industry, and >farmers aren't going to mind putting these grains into their feed blends. >Which, of course, inevitably end up in the end consumer via McNuggets. Seems to me that farmers (like everyone else) who are concerned about using GE products of any sort won't use them period. Urbanites have this overriding concern about human health (note that much of the debate over GE is about how it will affect humans), farmers tend to be more concerned about system health. In other words, if I don't want to grow GE potatoes, why would I want to feed my hens the same stuff? Our chickens live very happily in our orchard, where they eat nasty insects and look in through my father's study window - reading about biotech over his shoulder. Such sounds of distress they make at every Avery article! I do agree that chicken factories are horrible places, full of anxiety and distress. I would love to see Greenpeace protesting in a chicken factory, rather than their usual scenic fjords and Native whale hunts. Rebecca To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 13:38:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08548 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA25761 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:49:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25687 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GWIA ([134.186.198.23]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA11880 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PESTREGGW-Message_Server by GWIA with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:52:09 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:52:05 -0700 From: "Bob Hobza" To: Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1064 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA25708 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1123 To whom it may concern Please inform your readers not to request seeds, etc. of this plant through friends, etc. before university and regulatory scientists throughly check both the positive and negative aspects of using any such plant or animal as a biological control agent. This non native could become your worst nightmare (could possibly become an important weed species if natural checks and balances are left behind or if seeds or other plant parts may be hosts to a variety of pests including insect, disease, nematode, bacterial etc. which might be more detrimental than the plant out of place). Information leads like this seem may seem logical to follow through on but only after going though the legal hoops with screening done by USDA and through the person's state department of Agriculture. There are many examples of beneficials gone awry so proceed by requesting or lending support for USDA research and get the whole picture on the negatives as well as the positives of all exotic beneficials in foreign lands or states. This is Import for organic growers since new exotic pests often have disastrous effects on all growers but especially on organic growers since they can not use every registered pesticide and eradication programs for exotic pests do not have the latitude to only use organic pesticide products. I hope my comments are helpful. Bob >>> sanet-mg-digest 05/31/99 03:10PM >>> sanet-mg-digest Monday, May 31 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1064 In this issue: Companion Planting in Africa chicken thread (sad lament) See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 09:41:24 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor Subject: Companion Planting in Africa Companion planting watchers might find the following article interesting reading.... *********************************************************** From: New Scientist, 24 October 1998 p. 25 by Fred Pearce Farmer's Friend Grasses that grow wild across Kenya can double yields of maize, Africa's most important grain crop. Trials in which the grasses were grown alongside maize have proved so successful that they are about to be repeated in three other African countries. The grasses do battle with the stem borer, a caterpillar that decimates maize yields in millions of fields across eastern and southern Africa. When planted around the edges of fields, some spieces attract the moths that lay stem borer eggs, then secrete a gum that kills the caterpillars. They also attract the borer's worst foe, a parasitic wasp. Other grasses, if planted between rows of maize, keep the moths away by giving off an unpleasant smell. The grasses also fend off a second major threat to maize crops. a weed called Striga that attaches itself to the plants' roots. Between them, Striga and stem borers typically cause a 40 per cent loss of maize. Scientists at the research station at Mbita Point on the shores of Lake Victoria have tested four of these grass species -- Sudan (Sorghum vulgare), napier (Pennisetum purpureum), silverleaf (Desmodium uncinatum) and molasses (Melinis minutiflora) -- on 150 Kenyan farms. They proved so successful that the British-based Gatsby Charitable Foundation, which funded the research, is extending the programme to Uganda, Tanzania and Ethiopia. "These grasses are the same ones that farmers used to grow for fodder," says Zeyaur Khan, the project's coordinator. ! ! ! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 07:45:54 -0500 From: Martha Wells Subject: chicken thread (sad lament) Sanet is supposed to be 'sustainable agriculture', so I think this may be an appropriate place to air a gripe against something that is obviously not (sustainable): We live in a very rural area and more and more folk are putting in chicken factories. Breaks my heart. Drive by on a remotely warm day and you can smell the horrid stench of hot, dying chickens. People complain that they can't sit out on their porches anymore because of the neighbors chicken sheds. In Bryan (Tx) Sanderson Farms put in a large processing plant and is encouraging farmers to put up brooder / broiler houses. In the winter, the 'harvest' isn't quite so bad because they try to drive the ready birds in the dark to the slaughter house. In the warm months, it's daylight at 6am, and I find myself on the road with 18 wheeler truckloads full of terrified chickens. Cages are stacked onto open truck beds, just like apple crates, with the chickens getting full view of the passing terrain. The description of the kill system at the plant makes me hope many die in fright on the way there rather than be subjected to that. I didn't used to be so 'wimpy-hearted', but this is animal cruelty at it's finest. NOT TO MENTION the feed trucks going to the individual chicken ranches have really torn up the roadways, driving heavy vehicles constantly over roads that were never meant to withstand that traffic. I attended a master composting session and one lady was there because she operated chicken broiler houses, and needed a way to dispose of the carcasses of the dead. (composting was not a viable solution for her situation.) Between that and the concentrated chicken litter and spent grain (antibiotics and stimulants in the feed) being washed into the groundwater, these things are going to present a serious problem to us all very soon. Whenever I see 'fryer leg quarters, .19 per lb', I have to wonder at the terror that went into those meals, also the chemicals, the air and water quality and all the other abuses. The poultry industry would have us believe chicken meat is very healthy but I don't think this stuff qualifies. All this talk about GE seed, but livestock fodder is a huge industry, and farmers aren't going to mind putting these grains into their feed blends. Which, of course, inevitably end up in the end consumer via McNuggets. See the link: I'm working at the Med center (temporarily I hope) and this hospital is opening it's doors to the 2nd Heart Cath Lab on site. The other main hospital now has it's 3rd cath lab going full swing. Both centers' radiology wings aren't far behind either. (And Bryan/College Station Tx are not large cities.) If 'you are what you eat', than I suppose this is the chicken's way of saying "Touche, old chap." Sorry if this was off topic after all, but I needed a place to vent. martha end To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1064 ******************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 14:01:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA08942 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA05496 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:05:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05375 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:05:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id MAA27646; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:05:37 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma026539; Tue, 1 Jun 99 12:04:43 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:04:43 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD6B@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: SANET Cc: "'Lon J. Rombough'" Subject: RE: Safeguarding Sprouts Against Contamination Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:04:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1124 Lon, > Does anything this stupid even NEED a comment? Why do you think this is stupid? > "Because of their fragility, sprouts cannot withstand abrasive > physical washing. So the focus has been on cleaning the seeds, > which are suspected as the source of the pathogens. U.S. sprout > growers are looking for an effective, practical, and cost-effective > way to ensure that sprouts are free of pathogenic organisms." Makes sense to me. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 14:32:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09731 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA27376 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:39:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27317 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (modem-pool-108.rain.org [198.68.145.108]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D866C61751 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <025101beac55$b4ea3c80$6c9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: Subject: Fw: Mail failure Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:39:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1125 check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:21 AM Subject: Mail failure > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 09:06:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 08:49:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 09:41:45 -0500 > Reply-to: pubdept@mailhub (Doug Donaldson){MHS:pubdept@IN.NET} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: Doug Donaldson > Subject: unsubscribe > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > please take me off the listserv > unsubscribe To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 14:33:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09736 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA25983 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:38:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA25874 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (modem-pool-108.rain.org [198.68.145.108]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C959C61753 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <024001beac55$8cf1b140$6c9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: Subject: Fw: Mail failure Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:38:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1126 .----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:14 AM Subject: Mail failure > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 08:58:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 08:44:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 08:31:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 08:17:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 08:02:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 07:48:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 07:35:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 07:22:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 09:14:04 -0400 > Reply-to: NManias@mailhub{MHS:NManias@AOL.COM} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: NM Manias > Subject: Re: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > Take me off this damn list....... To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 14:34:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09751 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA29933 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:42:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29828 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (modem-pool-108.rain.org [198.68.145.108]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B1D461751 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <025a01beac56$043500e0$6c9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: Subject: Fw: Mail failure Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:41:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1127 does any one on sanet know how to stop thesse messages comming from FARM-MGT they just keep comming and comming help check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 9:24 AM Subject: Mail failure > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 09:09:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 08:53:00 -0700 > Reply-to: POSTMAST@DHW{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: POSTMAST{DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/POSTMASTER}@DHW.STATE.ID.US > Subject: Mail failure > To: FARM-MGT@mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > User mail received addressed to the following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Date: 01-Jun-1999 10:54:14 -0400 > Reply-to: FranksFa@mailhub{MHS:FranksFarm@AOL.COM} > From: FARM-MGT@mailhub (Farm Management){MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > Authors: Frank Tomeo > Subject: Re: Mail failure > To: @mailhub{MHS:FARM-MGT@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU} > > Hello, > > Please stop sending me all these mail failure notices. > > Seems you can't reach an address. < following unknown addresses: > DHWTOWERS/TOWERS1/mowreyb>> > > If this continues please unsubcribe me. Please confirm. Thanks. Good luck! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 16:22:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA12645 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA28631 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:21:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA28541 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:24:48 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'\"Michelle M. Miller\"'" Subject: insect urls Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:24:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1128 Forwarded: Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:49:51 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: insect urls Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" IPMnet just listed these URLs for sites where you can view insects for identification and management. If you are interested in IPM (all pests, chem/ non-chem, local/international) you might want to look into this free listserve: IPMnetNUZ. m3 MITE SITE For a close-up view of, and background information about, numerous mite species, there is the "Mite Image Gallery" at: . The site is locat- ed on the Univ. of Queensland (Australia) server and is the result of work by D.E. Walter and colleagues. FMI: D.E. Walter, Dept. of Entomology, Univ. of Queensland, St Lucia, QLD 4072, AUSTRALIA. E-mail: . Fax: 61-7-3365-1922. Phone: 61-7-3365-1564. <#> __________________________ ELECTRONIC IPM TEXT LAUDED A committee of professional entomologists and nematologists at the Univ. of Florida, USA, has awarded a coveted "Best of the Bugs" award to RADCLIFFE'S IPM WORLD TEXTBOOK website for providing "an excellent electronic textbook on Integrated Pest Management." The award is only given to those insect- or nematode-related websites judged to be among the top 5 percent. Radcliffe's site, partially sponsored by the Consortium for International Crop Protection, is located at: . <#> ____________________ MORE INSECT WEBSITES A scientist at the Univ. of Idaho (USA) has established several websites concerning in- sect identification and management. One offers field keys to damaging stages of insects commonly attacking field crops in the U.S. Pacific Northwest. The information is also available as a publication and is soon to be released in CD format. FMI: R. Stoltz, Univ. of Idaho, PO Box 1827, Twin Falls, ID 83303- 1827, USA. E-mail: . Phone: 1-208-736-3618. <#> _________________ IMPROVED WEB SITE The Berkeley, California-based Bio-Integral Resource Center, publisher of both the respected IPM PRACTITIONER and the COMMON SENSE PEST CONTROL QUARTERLY, has re- vised its website to improve its user friendliness and increase the amount of information thereon. FMI: BIRC, PO Box 7414, Berkeley, CA 94707, USA. E-mail: . <#> Subscribe / Unsubscribe: | | .... send the message "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to: | | and include an e-mail address. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 16:56:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA13554 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03823 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:14:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from netmgr.cso.niu.edu (netmgr.cso.niu.edu [131.156.1.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03689 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wpo.cso.niu.edu (wpo.cso.niu.edu [131.156.1.244]) by netmgr.cso.niu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA23380 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 15:14:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Domain1-Message_Server by wpo.cso.niu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:14:30 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:13:58 -0500 From: "Esther Day" To: Subject: Inquiry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1129 Dear All, I am inquiring about reports/information concerning IPM/conservation education/training now and over the past 20 years in order to conduct a trend analysis for a book chapter that I am writing. I am hoping that something somewhere has been published regarding this subject. Education/information either as degrees or sub-degrees at universities, IPM certification programs and the like. I have contacted several people who have been working in IPM and did so at the time, I have emailed queries to trade magazines, I have roamed the Internet (including government sites) and I have searched AGRICOLA and other econ lit search engines for information regarding this topic. What I found is very little and nothing in writing. If anyone has any suggestions/contacts, etc. at all, please email me or post. I would be more than willing to summarize responses and repost to the list or to the respondents. Thanks, Esther Day American Farmland Trust Center for Agriculture in the Environment P.O. Box 987 DeKalb, IL 60115 ph: 815-753-9347 fax:815-753-9348 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 18:03:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15278 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08936 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:12:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08890 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id QAA176044 (8.9.1/50); Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:12:16 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990528042651.00738818@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 04:26:51 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: rat digression Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1130 FYI - thought those of you interested in rats might enjoy reading the following post to IPMnet listserve on farmer rat control strategies around the globe. Seems that these techniques could be used in urban as well as rural areas,and for other rodent problems like squirrels, opposums(not a rodent, but a problem), etc. ------------------------- * Rodents = A Big Problem Globally * ------------------------- | Rodent pests, particularly rats, pose a significant field and stores problem in many of the world's crop-growing areas. Based on his extensive experience with a variety of approaches to pest control and management strategies, K. Gallagher--a staff member of the Global IPM Facility at FAO, Rome--recently described some general principles that seem to be common across the programs of farmer groups attempting to cope with rat control, whether in Asia, Africa, or elsewhere,. Dr. Gallagher has generously agreed to share his interesting observations with IPMnet NEWS readers. 1. "Know thy enemy" seems to be very important. Farmer groups study the characteristics of rats--longevity, fecundity, bait shyness, swimming ability, nest structure, local migration/movement trails, population levels with trap and release, teeth configuration, etc. This helps to demystify [the pest] and to make control plans easier. Apparently, different species have different bait preferences in- cluding taste, texture, and size of bait (e.g large blocks vs. smaller grains). 2. "Know thy territory" is another principle that comes with community mapping and marking of preferred living sites and movement. This practice should be conducted during various seasons as food resources and habitat change over the year. 3. "Prepare thy arsenal" with testing of traps, baits, digging, smok- ing, and barriers for fields and storage bins. This technical part seems to be where many programs begin, but it is only one aspect. One program in Sumatra developed a program called "One Million Traps" and communities literally made one million traps in the area! Be prepared to modify habitat to reduce nesting sites. 4. "Be smarter than the rats themselves" which is not easy! At least we people have organizational structures. Getting organized into "rat patrols" to prepare village sub-units to monitor, trap, bait, and dig holes on a regular long-term basis is important. Maintaining vil- lage records, maps, and reporting are part of the rat patrol job. One village person should be the "King Rat" (or some other socially ap- propriate name). Prepare a "Rat Manual" in the village for future reference on how it was all done for reference when rats emerge as a problem once again. These emerge as common points. The key to successful programs seems to be "prolonged organization." Rat campaigns give temporary relief, but rats spring back. Eradication is useless unless you live on an island. High tech, low tech, appropriate tech, and other techs are all ineffective without sustained action over time. FMI: K. Gallagher, Global IPM Facility, FAO, Rome, ITALY. E-mail: . --excerpted from: Afrik-IPM Discussion List; e-mail: . <#> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 18:51:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA16306 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06712 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:53:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA06690 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.102] (pa-ppp17.hevanet.com [204.119.60.102]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA04298; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906012152.OAA04298@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 14:41:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Safeguarding Sprouts Against Contamination From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET CC: AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1131 As thin as sprouts are, radiation will easily penetrate all the tissues, disrupting every cell, affecting enzyme systems, and probably destroying much of the food value. At the same time, it is almost sure to break molecules in a way that they will have ends looking for something to reattach to. When the chlorine is added, how much is going to attach to the broken molecules, creating chlorinated compounds of all sorts and of unknown potential. Not to mention the straight chlorine residual that stays in the tissues. Thank goodness sprouts are easy to grow at home - I'd rather go that way than risk the treated ones. The main thing the treatment is going to kill off is the market for commercial sprouts. ---------- >From: "Wilson, Dale" >To: SANET >Subject: RE: Safeguarding Sprouts Against Contamination >Date: Tue, Jun 1, 1999, 10:04 AM > >Lon, > >> Does anything this stupid even NEED a comment? > >Why do you think this is stupid? > >> "Because of their fragility, sprouts cannot withstand abrasive >> physical washing. So the focus has been on cleaning the seeds, >> which are suspected as the source of the pathogens. U.S. sprout >> growers are looking for an effective, practical, and cost-effective >> way to ensure that sprouts are free of pathogenic organisms." > >Makes sense to me. > >Dale > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 19:17:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA16817 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23413 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:18:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23098 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA14126 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:18:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990601171540.006c8f84@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:15:40 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: chicken thread (sad lament) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA23350 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1132 Martha Wells wrote: (snip) >We live in a very rural area and more and more folk are putting in chicken >factories. Breaks my heart. Drive by on a remotely warm day and you can >smell the horrid stench of hot, dying chickens. People complain that they >can't sit out on their porches anymore because of the neighbors chicken >sheds. In Bryan (Tx) Sanderson Farms put in a large processing plant and is >encouraging farmers to put up brooder / broiler houses... > (snip) Dear SANET and Martha, Thank you for bringing up this very important point. This concentration of farming in corporate hands is the major threat to sustainability facing agriculture today, all over the world (even in Russia and Third World Countries). The US poultry industry is the epitome of "contract agriculture". Around 86% of poultry farms and 89% of the value of poultry production are contracted; five corporations control the production of around 226 million pounds of "poultry meat" per week. If you would like to hear how bad things really are from folks who are actually trapped in the system, take a look at this web page: http://www.web-span.com/pga/contracts/contract_farming.html Personally, though I am not a vegetarian, I will not eat this chicken. I consider it a major health threat to humans and I am saddened by the state of our country when defenders of corporate agriculture try and tell us this stuff is "safe". I don't think it's even edible. (Did you ever see a movie called "Solyent Green"?). But then I'm getting old and irrascible, like Bargyla, who thinks the whole wicked system is about to crash to ground! Regards, Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 1 21:57:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19916 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA20070 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:12:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hamp.hampshire.edu (ednS94@hamp.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.137]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19997 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ednS94@localhost) by hamp.hampshire.edu (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21118 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 21:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric D Nash To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Connecticut Farmland Conference (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY=------------74D5DEA57197CEFD2C205072 Content-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1133 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --------------74D5DEA57197CEFD2C205072 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-ID: E. Nash is not affiliated with below event: Do not reply directly! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:26:19 -0400 From: Hartford Food System To: NE community food systems Subject: Connecticut Farmland Conference Connecticut Farmland Preservation Conference June 10th Wesleyan University Middletown, Connecticut This is a one day conference devoted to local and statewide strategies to preserve Connecticut's farms and farmland. It is for anyone who wants to know more about protecting some of the most fertile soil in the Northeast and the state's dwindling number of farms. Registration is $30 and includes lunch and the Conference's own "Connecticut Farmland Preservation Toolkit", a substantial notebook compilation of model preservation information and methods. The Conference is sponsored by the Connecticut Food Policy Council and co-sponsored by the American Farmland Trust, Trust for Public Land, Conn. Rural Development Council, UConn College of Agriculture, Eastern Conn. RC&DA, Conn. Farm Bureau, Conn. Dept. of Ag., Land Conservation Coalition of Conn., and the Hartford Food System. For more information call the Hartford Food System at 860 296-9325 or email us at hfoods@erols.com --------------74D5DEA57197CEFD2C205072-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Jun 1 14:16:42 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA09275 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA10779 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:13:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10748 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from renskebert.iatp.org ([208.141.36.78]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 324; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:09:31 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990601111150.0088a100@iatp.org> X-Sender: rvanstaveren@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:11:50 -0500 To: Global Sisterhood Postings From: "Renske van Staveren" Subject: The Road to Seattle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA10764 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1134 The Road to Seattle: Citizens Shaping the Global Trade Agenda Announcing the publication of a free electronic news bulletin that will highlight events, meetings, forums, and other planning activities during the buildup to the World Trade Organization's Third Ministerial meeting, to be held November 29 - December 4, 1999, in Seattle, USA. "The Road" will inform you about the meetings and activities of government ministers and their negotiators throughout the course of this year. It will also closely track the plans of citizens groups, labor unions, church organizations, environmentalists, farmers, small businesses and others as they come together to strategize and plan for their role in the trade talks. To subscribe to The Road to Seattle, send an email to listserv@iatp.org. In the body of the message write: subscribe road_to_seattle. The full text searchable archives to this and other news bulletins produced by IATP can be viewed on the World Wide Web at: http://www.newsbulletin.org. Submissions to the Road to Seattle should be sent to Renske van Staveren at: rvanstaveren@iatp.org, or faxed to Renske at: (1) 612-870-4846. __________________________________________ Ms. Renske van Staveren, Coordinator International Forum on Food & Agriculture (IFA) c/o Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis, MN, USA 55404-2505 ph: 612-870-3423 fax: 612-870-4846 rvanstaveren@iatp.org> http://www.iffah.org __________________________________________ "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 2 00:24:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22431 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA21743 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:30:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21694 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:30:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (551) by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7NPa001220 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:29:39 EDT Subject: US Trade " Listening Sessions" ( was Winter Haven Project) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 104 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1135 Nearly a month ago, a private activist posting was circulated that announced a number of US Federally-sponsored meetings to be held around the country. Because of the editorial content from the original sender it was inferred that these meetings would be an opportunity for the citizenry to voice their displeasure over genetic engineering in agriculture. While that may very well be the case, a bit more information is required. These sessions are organized by two cabinet-level agencies in the US government. One is the USDA, and the other is the Office of the US Trade Representative, who is Charlene Barshevsky. The official reason why these are being held is that the USTR and the USDA want to gather information pertinent to the negotiations being held and to be held that cover those US products which now or will suffer export difficulties. At the time of the announcement, May 4, I believe the hormone-beef ban had yet to be dealt with by WTO ( and still the issue is not fully resolved). I suppose that this indicates that the main topic that will be spoken to is GMO crops. These sessions will be part education from the government and part testimony from the public. Some of those who undoubtedly will be there are folks who are connected to GMO technology or mainstream agriculture, and they may be expected to insist that the US continue to do everything it can to assure overseas market entry for the new crops....and perhaps underscore industry's aversion to labeling or moratoriums domestically. You will note below that first one must contact an official within the State Department of Agriculture of the state where the meeting is being held. Judging from the press release, these meetings seem to be slanted towards official industry and perhaps State government representatives who are dealing with the controvery and its somewhat catastrophic aftermath. Towards the end of May, and in the middle of work's hurricane, I suddenly realized that the notice of these meetings had slipped into the ether. Now, after an original post called " Winter Haven Project", I can see that I too was short on information and long on vigor, and after a few queries from interested folks, I did a bit of tardy homework. It would be difficult to characterize what these meetings mean beforehand, but I can see that they may be part PR initiative. Access is somewhat difficult, publicity limited ( except a few somewhat confusing blasts), and the importance of the meetings and what the results will be are vague. Foreordained permission to embargo more cheese? Honest attempt to gauge public opinion and learn? The "listening sessions" are advertised as a preamble to the Seattle WTO Ministerial meetings this fall. Do note that if you don't attend, you may send comments to the USDA Foreign Agricultural Service DC by 26 July. I admit I have been planting green beans, not fixing small engines ( anything with one piston is rocket science) and observing a new llama all weekend, so I have yet to call the Minnesota Dept. of Agriculture and see if they will allow someone with a Texas address who really lives everywhere to speak in St. Paul. However, I am going to St. Paul, will learn more beforehand, and I am going to watch for any press coverage of the Winter Haven event to see what happens there. best regards, and regrets for jumping the gun, Steve Sprinkel USDA, USTR TO SPONSOR PUBLIC LISTENING SESSIONS ON WTO NEGOTIATIONS Release No. 0193.99 Tom Amontree (202) 720-4623 tom.amontree@usda.gov Eric VanChantfort (202) 720-9443 vanchantfort@fas.usda.gov USDA, USTR TO SPONSOR PUBLIC LISTENING SESSIONS ON WTO NEGOTIATIONS Washington, May 4, 1999 Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman and U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshefsky today announced that the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) will hold 11 public listening sessions to solicit public comments on agricultural trade priorities for the upcoming World Trade Organization (WTO) negotiations. "Because trade is so vital to American agriculture, the Administration is seeking a broad range of advice and ideas to help form U.S. agricultural trade policy in preparation for the next round of the WTO negotiations," said Glickman. "The advice of farmers and ranchers, processors, exporters, and consumers will be critical in establishing U.S. agricultural trade objectives and goals for the upcoming Seattle Ministerial Meeting in late November and for the ensuing WTO negotiations." Glickman said the public listening sessions are especially important as the United States continues the agricultural trade reform process into the next century. The sessions will give USDA and USTR officials an opportunity to outline general approaches for the next round and to listen to the public and share ideas about critical trade issues, such as market access, export subsidies, tariff reductions, internal support, state trading enterprises, labor and environmental issues, and trade concerns relating to products from new technologies. "Through these listening sessions, USTR and USDA will learn first-hand which issues are most important to farmers, ranchers, and the entire agriculture industry, and what trade policies would be most effective in helping to increase U.S. agricultural exports," Ambassador Barshefsky said. "USTR and USDA negotiators will continuously review the recommendations from these sessions in developing our negotiating objectives for the next round of agricultural negotiations." JUNE 4 - Winter Haven, Florida (Nora Mayo Hall) CONTACT: Will Bussey (850) 488-3022 STATES: Florida JUNE 7 - St. Paul, Minnesota (Holiday Inn, St. Paul, East) CONTACT: Darla Riley (651) 282-5140 STATES: Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin JUNE 16 - Memphis, Tennessee (Agri-Center International) CONTACT: Joe Gaines (615) 837-5160 STATES: Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Mississippi, Arkansas JUNE 24 - Indianapolis, Indiana (Indiana State Fair) CONTACT: Julia Wickard (317) 232-8778 STATES: Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, West Virginia JUNE 29 - Sacramento, California (California Department of Food and Agriculture) CONTACT: Marjorie Beazer (916) 654-0462 STATES: California, Hawaii, Arizona JUNE 30 - Pullman, Washington (To be determined) CONTACT: Lisa Schumaker (360) 902-1926 STATES: Washington, Idho, Oregon, Alaska JULY 8 - Austin, Texas (The Texas State Capitol) CONTACT: Dawn DeBerry (512) 475-1615 STATES: Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, New Mexico JULY 12 - Des Moines, Iowa (To be determined) CONTACT: Joan Kiernan (515) 281-5323 STATES: Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska JULY 19 - Burlington, Vermont (To be determined) CONTACT: Theresa Doyle (802) 828-2430 STATES: Vermont, New York, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island JULY 23 - Bozeman, Montana (To be determined) CONTACT: Montana Department of Agriculture (406) 444-3144 STATES: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, Utah JULY 23 - Newark, Delaware (University of Delaware) CONTACT: Brenda Minor (302) 739-4811 STATES: Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland In order to appear before the USDA-USTR panel, interested persons must register with their State Departments of Agriculture for the regional sessions. Written questions and comments will be accepted in writing from those individuals who cannot attend the listening sessions. Comments must be received no later than July 26 and can be e-mailed to agsec@usda.gov or mailed to: U.S. Department of Agriculture, Trade Policy Comments, Stop 9920, 1400 Independence Ave. SW, Washington, DC 20250-9920. For more information, contact Marlene Phillips, FAS Outreach Office, at (202) 720-0103 or phillipsms@fas.usda.gov. # NOTE: USDA news releases and media advisories are available on the Internet. Access the USDA Home Page on the World Wide Web at http://www.usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 2 14:53:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04968 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA06060 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:40:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06025 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool531-cvx.ds66-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.209.21]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18451; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3754B4AF.F2724121@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:36:00 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Hubbard CC: "Douglas B. Johnson" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: a forestry question References: <199905252210.SAA24230@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <199906010042.TAA17697@vortex.more.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1136 I am SHOCKED that you don't have access, apparently, to the extremely important info that pines, like most plants and surely all conifers, need the mycorrhizal fungi inoculant when planting seeds. Esp if you are going to plant in pots, you just must buy the inoculant. It costs very little when you think of how little is needed, and how extremely valuable they are. You can order the inoculant for trees, the ECTOmycorrhize, from the world expert on the subject, a very fine person, Dr. Donald Marx, who now heads his own company, Plant Health Care, 440 William Pitt Way. Pittsburgh, PA 15238 412-826-5488 fax is 412-826-5445 This culture is very easy to use--just put a spoonful in bottom of hole or pot, where roots will contact it. And the price is so small compared to the excellent result. I do remember many years ago, some prof wanted me to do something with his pine tree study. Without the mycorrhizal fungi, the seedlings just would not grow beyond a few inches. Give them the culture, and they really did grow. Of all plants, it seems pine trees more than anything else will just appreciate the fungal aid so very much. I am absolutely sure it will be worth your while to get the cultures for your seedlings. I have no interest, no financial ties at all. I just have known about Dr. Marx for so many years, and go to hear him speak when he is out here on a speaking tour, etc. Mark Hubbard wrote: > > Question > > One of my goals is to try growing pines from their seed cones. We have > > Norways, Jack Pines, White Pines, Spruce, Scotch Pines and others on the > > island. Also limited Cedar. > > (I'm not sure which island he may be referring to?) > > > Now some of the varieties have the harden cones that I believe need > > heat/fire to open them. Question is how much and how. > > Of the pines listed, jack pine is the only one for which fire (heat) > will aid cone drying and opening, but even for that species "some > cones open every year [without fire]." (from USDA Ag. Handbook > 271). I would venture a guess that an hour in an oven at about 200 > degrees F would open 'em. > > > Then instead of just scattering the seeds, I want to have a concentrated > > area of pots to germinate and grow the seedlings, then transplant. Also > > the potting soil content, I believe should be on the acidic side but how > > much. > > The pines you've listed should all do well with a pH in the range of > 4.5 - 6.5 and well-drained soil. > > Hope this helps and I let me know if I can help further! > > Mark Hubbard, PhD > Department of Agriculture > College of the Ozarks > Pt. Lookout, MO 65726 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 2 16:06:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07068 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA06407 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:25:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA06400 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:25:30 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 86256784.006A6F1D; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:22:32 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 86256784.006AE7E4 ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:27:41 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <86256784.006AE6AD.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:27:38 -0500 Subject: probiotics and chicken feed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1137 Hello all, I am looking for a good definition of probiotics -- specifically those used in chicken feed -- including functions, risks and benefits. In addition, I'm interested in whether using fish and bone meal in chicken feed presents food safety concerns. Thank you in advance! Lisa Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) lbauer2@unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 2 17:01:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08582 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA07190 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:15:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca [142.177.1.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07177 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 16:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ken ([142.177.62.16]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 607-60631U65000L65000S0V35) with SMTP id AAA15615; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:14:36 -0300 Message-ID: <37558FE9.2365@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 17:11:21 -0300 From: Ken Isbell Reply-To: ken.isbell@ns.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bargyla Rateaver CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: a forestry question References: <199905252210.SAA24230@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <199906010042.TAA17697@vortex.more.net> <3754B4AF.F2724121@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1138 Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > > I am SHOCKED that you don't have access, apparently, to the extremely > important info that pines, like most plants and surely all conifers, need the > mycorrhizal fungi inoculant when planting seeds. Hi, Couldn't our hapless tree grower just collect some soil/humus from under his already growing pines and innoculate with that? -- ______ __/__[___] trucking along in East Uniacke /o ------o)=~~Nova Scotia, Canada Zone 5 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 2 18:37:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10822 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA13059 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:56:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12973 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 17:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool150-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.150]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06832; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3755A321.53CCEE1E@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:33:21 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Nigh CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: chicken thread (sad lament) References: <3.0.1.32.19990601171540.006c8f84@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1139 Oh, yeahhhh?? Bargyla is old all right, but she doesn't just THINK the whole world systems is going to crash, she KNOWS it, because the Creator says He is going to completely dissolve it--not a vestige will be left. Ronald Nigh wrote: > Martha Wells wrote: > > (snip) > >We live in a very rural area and more and more folk are putting in chicken > >factories. Breaks my heart. Drive by on a remotely warm day and you can > >smell the horrid stench of hot, dying chickens. People complain that they > >can't sit out on their porches anymore because of the neighbors chicken > >sheds. In Bryan (Tx) Sanderson Farms put in a large processing plant and is > >encouraging farmers to put up brooder / broiler houses... > > > (snip) > > Dear SANET and Martha, > > Thank you for bringing up this very important point. This concentration of > farming in corporate hands is the major threat to sustainability facing > agriculture today, all over the world (even in Russia and Third World > Countries). The US poultry industry is the epitome of "contract > agriculture". Around 86% of poultry farms and 89% of the value of poultry > production are contracted; five corporations control the production of > around 226 million pounds of "poultry meat" per week. If you would like to > hear how bad things really are from folks who are actually trapped in the > system, take a look at this web page: > > http://www.web-span.com/pga/contracts/contract_farming.html > > Personally, though I am not a vegetarian, I will not eat this chicken. I > consider it a major health threat to humans and I am saddened by the state > of our country when defenders of corporate agriculture try and tell us this > stuff is "safe". I don't think it's even edible. (Did you ever see a movie > called "Solyent Green"?). But then I'm getting old and irrascible, like > Bargyla, who thinks the whole wicked system is about to crash to ground! > > Regards, > > Ronald Nigh > Dana, A.C. > Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas > Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) > danamex@mail.internet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 2 19:39:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA12085 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA18353 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:50:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA18302 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:50:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (8033) by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id zPZMa03096; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3c0a7198.24870e67@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:47:03 EDT Subject: Re: probiotics and chicken feed To: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 104 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1140 At least one fish meal product I am aware of has ethoxiquin in it as a preservative. My main machine had to go back for repair, so my ethoxiquin file is not available, but a simple search will turn up some info on it, particularly look at the FDA and EPA registrations and scientific info. Generally speaking, in organic production any feed containing a synthetic like ethoxiquin should be prohibited across the board. The Organic Materials Review Institute has it on their prohibited list. OCIA does not list it specifically, but like Oregon Tilth and CCOF, OCIA "subscribes" to the OMRI list, but how the OMRI standard interfaces with the certifier's lists is unclear right now, but I am asking. I think its fair to say that the jury is out on bone meal as feed source, for organic non-ruminants or otherwise. While accepted for conventional non-ruminants, the BSE issue continues on, as Robert Stauber recently wrote: " Post Oprah ( the Texas Cattlemens suit against Oprah Winfrey-Howard Lyman) Very little reporting has been done on this critical issue, even though we have sheep, deer and elk infected with their version of the disease here in the US. Since 30 year old Doug McEwen died in Utah there is concern that the mad cow type disease that is epidemic in deer and elk in some areas of the west may be moving into humans. Cattle blood plasma is routinely fed to calves in milk replacer. Over the counter supplements contain hundreds of milligrams of 'raw bovine pituitary' with no consumer awareness of the risks of consuming brain. Etc., etc. For more on the mad cow issue, borrow our book from your favorite library: Mad Cow USA:Could the Nightmare Happen Here? Sheldon Rampton & John Stauber, 1997, Common Courage Press. Also, for the very best information on this issue, updated weekly, go to Dr. Tom Pringle's excellent website: www.mad-cow.org Steve Sprinkel To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 2 21:43:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA14120 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA24930 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:07:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA24921 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool184-cvx.ds44-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.61.84]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00030 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990602180623.009cb300@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 18:06:23 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: probiotics and chicken feed In-Reply-To: <199906022210.SAA21273@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1141 Hi Lisa, et al poultry-heads. Is there a list for "sustainable poultry?" Or "appropriate meats?" I'd be interested in a list like that. I don't know much about probiotics. We don't use them. I like to think that the aquatic plants, weeds, and reclaimed water have homeopathic properties. Salatin uses acidophilus. Below is a rambling note on poultry feeds. Two recipes from Joel Salatin's work, and our own spin on it. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but most commercial poultry feed includes meat, blood, and bone meal from slaughterhouses. We stopped using feeds with renderings a couple of years ago. At my school's facility, public concern regarding "Mad Cow Disease," or more precisely, transmissible bovine spongiform encephalopathy, seems well founded. TBSE is caused by a prion, also known as a "slow virus" or virino, and passes from mammal to mammal through the food chain. When mammal offal is inhaled or ingested, e.g. incorporating sheep scraps into cow feeds, the prions infect new hosts. English rose gardeners, who use bone meal as a soil amendment, seem to be contracting human spongiform encephalopathy called Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in inexplicably high numbers. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease was very rare, only found in human cannibals until a few years ago. Prions withstand cooking, and feeding mammal renderings which may contain prions to poultry may be unwise. If the poultry can't pass it on, the dust from the feed could still infect workers. Animal protein that our chickens do not make themselves comes from fish and insects. Fish offal can be pelletized for poultry feed by freezing fish byproducts in the solar freezer until there's enough to merit a mill run. Fish skin, bones, heads, and entrails can be run through a pelletizing mill with alfalfa greens. The pressure of the mill actually cooks the ingredients while pressing pellets, which slows decomposition and reduces odors. Landscaping with perennials along the pens can act as insectories. Unlucky insects from these borders become part of the poultry diet. >From Joel Salatin's book/video "Pasture Poultry Profits." He feeds his Polyface Farm birds the following (approximately): 60% corn 11.5% peanut meal 6.5% soybean meal 5.5% roasted soybeans 7?% meat & bone meal 4% fishmeal 2.5% alfalfa meal 1.5% kelp meal for trace metals .5% brewers yeast a tiny bit of probiotics like acidophilus By mass, the Polyface recipe: 4,600 lbs. of cornmeal 875 lbs. of peanut meal 500 lbs. soybean meal 425 lbs. roasted soy beans 525 lbs. meat and bone meal 300 lbs. fish meal 200 lbs. alfalfa meal 110 lbs. kelp 50 lbs. yeast 20 lbs. probiotic Another diet for a farmer with 3000 birds 2240 lbs. tritical 800 lbs. soy bean meal 150 lbs. alfalfa pellets 9 lbs. calcium 4 lbs. poultry vitamins 7 lbs. XP4 phosphorus Our regenerative poultry diet per dozen layers: 600 lbs. of cracked corn and/or other grains 150 lbs. of cracked peanut/soy and/or other bean/seed 50 lbs. roasted peanut/soy and/or other bean/seed 80 lbs. fish meal 40 lbs. alfalfa 20 lbs. aquatic plants (at least) 10 lbs. yeast and brewing wastes reclaimed water - as much as they want poultry grit with lime - as much as they want - That's what we try to do. With student labor, the true numbers vary. The fish offal comes from our aquaculture operation: mostly tilapia and carp. Fred FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the John T. Lyle Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From sgroff@epix.net Wed Jun 2 22:08:41 1999 Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA14718 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp79.epix.net [205.238.243.79]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999052801/PL) with ESMTP id VAA09762; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3755E306.25B8F2E0@epix.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:05:58 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Larry London CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Is BT potentially dangerous? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1142 Larry London wrote: > ---------- > > RED FLAG FOR GREEN SPRAY > May 29, 1999 > New Scientist > Debora Mackenzie > According to this story, French researchers have found that inhaling the > spores of Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt, sprayed on organic crops as a > pesticide can cause lung inflammation, internal bleeding and death in > laboratory mice. > > The story notes that dried Bt spores have been used as a pesticide for > more than 30 years and are one of the very few insecticides sanctioned > for use on organic crops in Europe. Bt is also widely used to combat > pest such as the spruce budworm, a caterpillar that attacks trees. > When Bt was sprayed in towns in Oregon in 1991 to combat gypsy moths, > the bacterium was found in clinical samples from 55 patients who had > been admitted to hospital for a variety of other reasons. Robert Haward > of the Soil Association, which represents Britain's organic farmers, was > cited as saying that they may have to use masks and take more care when > spraying the spores on crops. > Has the above information been verified? Are there any other studies on the use of Bt insecticides and it's potential side effects? Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 2 22:49:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15441 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA00903 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:00:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00848 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp79.epix.net [205.238.243.79]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999052801/PL) with ESMTP id VAA09762; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3755E306.25B8F2E0@epix.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 22:05:58 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Larry London CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Is BT potentially dangerous? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1143 Larry London wrote: > ---------- > > RED FLAG FOR GREEN SPRAY > May 29, 1999 > New Scientist > Debora Mackenzie > According to this story, French researchers have found that inhaling the > spores of Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt, sprayed on organic crops as a > pesticide can cause lung inflammation, internal bleeding and death in > laboratory mice. > > The story notes that dried Bt spores have been used as a pesticide for > more than 30 years and are one of the very few insecticides sanctioned > for use on organic crops in Europe. Bt is also widely used to combat > pest such as the spruce budworm, a caterpillar that attacks trees. > When Bt was sprayed in towns in Oregon in 1991 to combat gypsy moths, > the bacterium was found in clinical samples from 55 patients who had > been admitted to hospital for a variety of other reasons. Robert Haward > of the Soil Association, which represents Britain's organic farmers, was > cited as saying that they may have to use masks and take more care when > spraying the spores on crops. > Has the above information been verified? Are there any other studies on the use of Bt insecticides and it's potential side effects? Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 3 00:19:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA16862 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA15800 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:07:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA15794 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool420-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.144.170]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00428; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:07:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3755B481.E1BBD9FC@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:47:29 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ken.isbell@ns.sympatico.ca CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: a forestry question References: <199905252210.SAA24230@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <199906010042.TAA17697@vortex.more.net> <3754B4AF.F2724121@earthlink.net> <37558FE9.2365@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1144 What really bothers me is that people don't KNOW about mycorrhiza values. as I said, I spent all those years around academia and never heard a word about it. That is not fair, to withhold info from students. I was just lucky that I had learned of it in childhood, as my father was a green thumb and had the only library around. Ken Isbell wrote: > Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > > > > I am SHOCKED that you don't have access, apparently, to the extremely > > important info that pines, like most plants and surely all conifers, need the > > mycorrhizal fungi inoculant when planting seeds. > > Hi, > > Couldn't our hapless tree grower just collect some soil/humus from > under his already growing pines and innoculate with that? > -- > > ______ > __/__[___] > trucking along in East Uniacke /o ------o)=~~Nova Scotia, Canada Zone 5 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 3 09:11:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA21907 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA01615 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:16:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA01477 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00D7C80F@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 8:14:49 -0400 Received: from sareace2.griffin.peachnet.edu (sareace2.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.65]) by gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA01654 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906031216.IAA01654@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Gwen Roland" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:11:48 +0500 Subject: Limited-Resource Farmer Workshop X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1146 WORKSHOP: Sustainable Agriculture Production and Marketing Practices for Limited-Resource Farmers June 17 - 19, 1999 Baton Rouge, Louisiana Limited-resource farmers are, for the most part, unaware of the opportunities that are available through Southern SARE and other sustainable agriculture programs. These farmers generally own less than 150 acres of land, yet many employ conventional farming practices and rent additional acreage in hopes of turning a profit. This inevitably leads to high debt and little or no profit, not to mention the negative economic and environmental impact on the community. If limited resource-farmers are to remain part of America's production agriculture system, they must be able to take advantage of new research, appropriate technology and information that will make their land an asset to them and the environment. SARE is sponsoring this two-day workshop and tour to help educate limited-resource farmers and technical assistance providers about the possibilities inherent in employing sustainable agriculture practices and how SARE can assist them in the effort. This workshop is being held at: Holiday Inn South 9940 Airline Highway Baton Rouge, LA 70816 Phone: (504) 924-7021 Fax: (504) 924-9816 For more information about this workshop, please contact: Mr. Jerry Pennick Federation of Southern Cooperatives 2769 Church Street East Point, GA 30344 Phone: (404) 765-0991 Fax: (404) 765-9178 See agenda and other details at the following site: http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare/june17.html Gwen Roland Southern Region SARE 1109 Experiment Street Griffin, GA 30223 Ph: (770) 412-4786 Fax: (770) 412-4789 http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 3 11:57:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25790 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29078 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:47:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.42]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29035 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 811159928worldnet ([12.79.224.11]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.06 118-133) with SMTP id <19990603144705.EFTB1655@811159928worldnet> for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:47:05 +0000 Message-ID: <003101beadd0$23579de0$0be04f0c@att.net> From: "Matthew Kline" To: Subject: Corporate Chickens Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:48:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEADAE.9847A720" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1147 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEADAE.9847A720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The sad lament of odorous chicken farms is popping up in south central = PA as well. Our Township is semi-rural, and becoming more suburbanite = for Baltimore. Dedicated members of the local Township Planning = Commission (I am a volunteer) have struggled with the issue of = maintaining a good quality of life for our residents, while not = encumbering the local farmers with restrictions. We have striven to = protect the remaining farm and natural lands. While I may not agree = with many of the farming practices of the neighbors, at least the farm = land has not been planted with roads, cell towers, and one acre lots of = fescue. Large poultry farms in neighboring Townships have proven to be a problem = for the small residential developments intermingled with agriculture. = Zoning cannot exclude corporate farming, but it can place 'reasonable' = restrictions on new developments of intensive animal husbandry. Our = solution to quality of human life issues is two fold. The first has = been to enact ordinances that require new farms producing over a certain = number of animals, to provide large setbacks and buffers. The = ordinances also look at stormwater management, road weight limits, truck = traffic, access, etc. The second is to ensure that the farmers are = abiding by the Conservation District Nutrient Management Plans that they = have filed. While these plans are not as strict as I would like, they = are a start to controlling the runoff. I would encourage others to seek ordinances in their municipalities = placing 'reasonable' restrictions on intensive agriculture farms. Keep = in mind that ordinances in most states may take up to a year to get = passed, even without protest by conventional farmers and corporations. I fully realize that this does nothing for the quality of life of the = chickens, but action on several fronts is needed. After reading all the banter about chickens, and visiting the Arkansas = Conservation District Chicken Composting Website (sorry, I don't have = the address, but it's disgusting), I am considering raising a few = 'chooks' of my own. Can someone suggest a primer on sustainable small = scale (very small) production, for a suburbanite raised beginner? I = have an existing chicken coup, pasture, stream, and foxes. Thanks. Mary=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEADAE.9847A720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    The sad lament of odorous chicken farms is popping = up in south=20 central PA as well.  Our Township is semi-rural, and becoming more=20 suburbanite for Baltimore.  Dedicated members of the local Township = Planning Commission (I am a volunteer) have struggled with the issue of=20 maintaining a good quality of life for our residents, while not = encumbering the=20 local farmers with restrictions.  We have striven to protect the = remaining=20 farm and natural lands.  While I may not agree with many of = the=20 farming practices of the neighbors, at least the farm land has not been = planted=20 with roads, cell towers, and one acre lots of fescue.
     
    Large poultry farms in neighboring Townships have = proven to be=20 a problem for the small residential developments intermingled with=20 agriculture.  Zoning cannot exclude corporate farming, but it can = place=20 'reasonable' restrictions on new developments of intensive animal=20 husbandry.  Our solution to quality of human life issues is two = fold. =20 The first has been to enact ordinances that require new farms producing = over a=20 certain number of animals, to provide large setbacks and buffers.  = The=20 ordinances also look at stormwater management, road weight limits, truck = traffic, access, etc.  The second is to ensure that the farmers are = abiding=20 by the Conservation District Nutrient Management Plans that they have=20 filed.  While these plans are not as strict as I would like, they = are a=20 start to controlling the runoff.
     
    I would encourage others to seek ordinances in their = municipalities placing 'reasonable' restrictions on intensive = agriculture=20 farms.  Keep in mind that ordinances in most states may take up to = a year=20 to get passed, even without protest by conventional farmers and=20 corporations.
     
    I fully realize that this does nothing for the = quality of life=20 of the chickens, but action on several fronts is needed.
     
    After reading all the banter about chickens, and = visiting the=20 Arkansas Conservation District Chicken Composting Website (sorry, I = don't have=20 the address, but it's disgusting), I am considering raising a few = 'chooks' of my=20 own.  Can someone suggest a primer on sustainable small scale (very = small)=20 production, for a suburbanite raised beginner?  I have an = existing=20 chicken coup, pasture, stream, and foxes.  Thanks.
     
    Mary 
    ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEADAE.9847A720-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 3 12:41:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26834 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA07813 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:56:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA07768 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.132] (br-ppp29.hevanet.com [198.5.254.132]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19956; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 08:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906031556.IAA19956@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 08:53:13 -0700 Subject: FW: Pectin Plays Key Role in Fiber Quality From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , New Crops Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1148 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Pectin Plays Key Role in Fiber Quality Date: Thu, Jun 3, 1999, 6:48 AM STORY LEAD: Pectin Plays Key Role in Fiber Quality ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 3, 1999 Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- Agricultural Research Service scientists have discovered that pectin, a jelly-like substance, on cotton fiber walls appears to play a key role in controlling fiber quality. This discovery could lead to new ways to improve fiber length and strength. ARS plant physiologists Kevin C. Vaughn and Rickie B. Turley, in Stoneville, Miss., found that cotton fibers have a layer of pectin around their cells that is not present in other parts of the plant. The scientists say this pectin layer appears to allow cotton fibers to elongate. This lengthening leads to more fiber, the fluffy white part taken directly from the boll. This discovery was a surprise to Vaughn, who is with ARS' Southern Weed Science Research Unit, because his work and many other scientists' work has always focused on how cellulose--the major component of the plant cell wall--affects fiber quality and length, rather than how pectin has. The ARS scientists found that mutations or certain herbicide treatments can alter cotton fiber. In lab studies, when they altered pectin amounts, they found either cotton fiber did not grow or its physical characteristics were changed, such as short squatty fibers versus long fibers. Vaughn and Turley, who is with ARS' Crop Genetics and Production Research Unit, are trying to identify the enzymes responsible for producing fiber pectin. Ultimately, identifying those enzymes will help to improve fiber length and quality. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Kevin C. Vaughn, ARS Southern Weed Science Research Unit, Stoneville, Miss., (phone) 601-686-5211, (fax), 601-686-5422, kvaughn@ag.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 3 14:50:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA29777 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 14:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA17066 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:55:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA17008 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m18.boston.juno.com (m18.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.191]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11043 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 13:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m18.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EB75BBSF; Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:55:19 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:31:47 -0700 Subject: Re: a forestry question Message-ID: <19990603.104213.3566.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,4,6-8,15,18,20-21 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1149 Bargyla Rateaver wrote: (snip) ... pines, like most plants and surely all conifers, need the mycorrhizal fungi inoculant when planting seeds. Esp if you are going to plant in pots, you just must buy the inoculant. It costs very little when you think of how little is needed, and how extremely valuable they are. (snip) Good point, but I have the impression one can "inoculate" a new planting simply by adding a little soil from under a healthy stand of similar trees. A friend told me as little as 1 teaspoon of native soil along with a bare root fruit tree can make a BIG difference in the health of the transplant. Of course, when one starts with seeds or bare root trees, buying an inoculant may be the best choice, and I'm not against that. This, of course, goes against the advice from my master gardener class, which emphasized the need to sterilize everything in sight, but then I don't follow much of what I "learned" in that class, anyway. I'd be interested in other people's experience using soil from under similar trees for new plantings. Best regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 3 17:16:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03992 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09238 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:11:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA09191 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.171.125.93] ([128.171.125.93]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373765(10)>; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:11:12 -1000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990603101520.007cba00@pop-server.hawaii.edu> X-Sender: mikerobo@pop-server.hawaii.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:15:20 -1000 To: SANET-MG From: Michael Robotham Subject: Mycorrhizae use In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1150 Dear list members, I forwarded a message from this thread to Shannon Peters, one of our graduate students who works with mycorrhizae. She passed along the following information on a good reference book available on the topic: "There is actually a good reference put out by the Forest Service called The Container Tree Nursery Manual - Volume 5, that deals with those issues in depth and with some good scientific as well as practical knowledge. If you want to pass the info along to the listserv the specific reference is USDA Forest Service, Agriculture Handbook 674, "The Container Tree Nursery Manual - Volume 5: Biological Influences - Nursery Pests and Mycorrhizae" corresponding author Thomas D. Landis." If you would like additional information, please contact her directly at speters@hawaii.edu. Mike --------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Robotham, Ph. D. Phone: (808) 956-6835 (office) Education Specialist (808) 956-2617 (workroom) Agronomy and Soil Science Fax: (808) 956-6539 University of Hawaii at Manoa Email: mikerobo@hawaii.edu 1910 East-West Road Home Page: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~mikerobo Honolulu, HI 96822 USA ...none but ourselves can free our minds (Bob Marley--Redemption Song) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 3 17:36:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04546 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 17:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA28084 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:41:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.netaxs.com (mail@mail.netaxs.com [207.8.186.26]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA27823 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix3.netaxs.com (mail@unix3.netaxs.com [207.8.186.5]) by mail.netaxs.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13166; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from geoghega@localhost) by unix3.netaxs.com (8.8.7/8.8.4) id QAA03756; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 16:12:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Geoghegan To: Floyd Johnson cc: sanet-mg Subject: Re: Line rap In-Reply-To: <37561A33.F34A5904@cillnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1151 On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Floyd Johnson wrote: > I am new to this list so please excuse my remark if it is inappropriate. > Why do some messages fit my screen and some go on for miles side to > side? We just got a new computer with a scroll wheel and this side to > side stuff annoys me is there any way around this? Maybe my messages > look like that on your computer if so again please let me know. yes,... this has also just happened to me (: I use unix PINE through a shell connection... this had never happened before yet now I get some e-mails whose lines do not fit on the screen... I also would like to know why this is? and why now? Andy > > > Floyd > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 3 23:32:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA10836 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA15665 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:50:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA15556 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA07089 for ; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 3 Jun 99 22:48:55 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 3 Jun 99 22:48:53 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:48:51 EST Subject: Re: Line rap X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <2832731DA@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1152 Andrew and others: me too, and not just with SANET. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 10:32:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18011 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15868 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:00:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15842 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09699 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990604100557.007d1480@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 10:05:57 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: STarting a flock of chickens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1153 >After reading all the banter about chickens, and visiting the Arkansas = >Conservation District Chicken Composting Website (sorry, I don't have = >the address, but it's disgusting), I am considering raising a few = >'chooks' of my own. Can someone suggest a primer on sustainable small = >scale (very small) production, for a suburbanite raised beginner? I = >have an existing chicken coup, pasture, stream, and foxes. Thanks. Mary, Below is one of the more complete books for backyard chicken raising. We have our first six chicks (sorry, can't get myself to say 'chooks'!) about to go into the coop I finished last weekend. Electric fencing is necessary if you have foxes (remember all those great saturday morning cartoons of the fox in the henhouse?). Try Premier fencing -- they are the most affordable I've found. Also consider getting some old-fashioned backyard birds (Dominique, Java, etc). They are good layers, good for meat but also very thorough foragers. More slow growing than the typical broiler, but you are not a contract grower so you can wait! Just my two egg's worth. Mark http://www.storeybooks.com/animal/897-8prim.html ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 10:32:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18020 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14232 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:56:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14112 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:59:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "sanet-mg (E-mail)" Cc: "'slelink@kot.poltava.ua'" Subject: Ukranian organization seeks Internship opportunities Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:59:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1154 Please respond directly to Mr. Neugwou (e-mail in CC: field) since he is not subscribed to sanet. Andy Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 09:40:52 +0300 From: slelink X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu >From : Martin Luther Neugwou/ Executive Director Information Agency EUROLINK 29 Zeygyna Street Office No 403 Poltava 314014 Ukraine Email: slelink@kot.poltava.ua Tel/Fax: +38 05322 2 09 76 29th May 1999. Dear Sir/Madam, We are an Information agency, an Organisation founded in 1995 for the purpose of providing and assisting our young people with good information regarding Study opportunities, Training and Work Experience, Participation to some special Schemes abroad. We have been assisting for many years now young people wishing to study abroad, especially those wishing to study foreign languages abroad. We also give assistance to those with years of experience but wishing to broad this experience. We would to get some more information regarding The International experience you offer in other to give this opportunity to our young people. We would like to co-operate with your prestigious Council and see how we could offer the real opportunity to our young Ukrainian people wishing to improve their language skills in the spoken environment.. We are particularly interested by International Internships programme which offer practical training inn various fields including law, communications, engineering, business, agriculture, and etc... . We can assure you in the case you agreed to work with us that a very methodical selection will be made as we have good contacts and co-operation with many Universities, colleges, institutes and others organisations and enterprises her in Ukraine and many of these would like to give this opportunity to their employees her in Ukraine. We hope to offer to our young people the opportunity to gain more and more experience , to study hard, improve all their language skills, get to know the area and it's culture, relax and enjoy their selves in a friendly, English speaking, international environment, make new friends from all over the world. We think through this to promote a better understanding between peoples from all over the world. We want our people to be educated, to broaden their experience and we think by this way to achieve our aims. Please also note that we will not charge any fees from the candidates as we are an organisation working for charity. We will be very happy to hear from you soon. Thank you in advance for your consideration. And please feel free to contact me personally by phone or fax if you have any question regarding this matter Yours faithfully, Martin Luther Neugwou Executive Director Information Agency EUROLINK 29 Zeygyna Street Office No 403 Poltava 314014 Ukraine Email: slelink@kot.poltava.ua P.S.: In the case you would like our people to apply personally please do not also hesitate to contact us. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 11:59:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19995 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26414 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:06:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26409 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:05:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP301.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.39]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25364; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3757EBD7.EDB2AD73@sprintmail.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 11:08:08 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: STarting a flock of chickens References: <3.0.6.32.19990604100557.007d1480@crocker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1155 Mark, I had a flock of 25 hens and a rooster in Cincinnati, 10 minutes from downtown. I had a 250 sq. foot coop and a 500 sq. foot fenced yard- with netting on top to stop racoons from coming in a nd chickens flying out. We fed them inmedicted feed and weeds bad vegies from the garden. They paid their own way plus some with sales of eggs to a local food co-op and neighbors. We also raised our own chicks by letting one of the "good mother" hens set when she got broody- never lost a chick. There's a section on coop construction and organic raising in "Build it Better Yourself" from Rodale (out of print, but I found a copy in a used book store). Also, "The Homesteader's Handbook to Raising Small Livestock" by Jerome Balinger, Rodale press, has a good section on chickens. I haven't seen anything recently because I now farm in a suburban area where farm animals are prohibited.] Hope this helps Alex, Walden Farm Mark wrote: > >After reading all the banter about chickens, and visiting the Arkansas = > >Conservation District Chicken Composting Website (sorry, I don't have = > >the address, but it's disgusting), I am considering raising a few = > >'chooks' of my own. Can someone suggest a primer on sustainable small = > >scale (very small) production, for a suburbanite raised beginner? I = > >have an existing chicken coup, pasture, stream, and foxes. Thanks. > > Mary, > > Below is one of the more complete books for backyard chicken raising. We > have our first six chicks (sorry, can't get myself to say 'chooks'!) about > to go into the coop I finished last weekend. Electric fencing is necessary > if you have foxes (remember all those great saturday morning cartoons of > the fox in the henhouse?). Try Premier fencing -- they are the most > affordable I've found. Also consider getting some old-fashioned backyard > birds (Dominique, Java, etc). They are good layers, good for meat but also > very thorough foragers. More slow growing than the typical broiler, but > you are not a contract grower so you can wait! > > Just my two egg's worth. > > Mark > > http://www.storeybooks.com/animal/897-8prim.html > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 12:13:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20282 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15216 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:32:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15100 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.110] (pa-ppp25.hevanet.com [204.119.60.110]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23411; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906041532.IAA23411@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:34:43 -0700 Subject: FW: Algae and Bacteria Influence Herbicide Fate From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1156 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Algae and Bacteria Influence Herbicide Fate Date: Fri, Jun 4, 1999, 6:01 AM STORY LEAD: Algae and Bacteria Influence Herbicide Fate ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov June 4, 1999 ----------- Species of green algae that help break down soil-applied herbicides could lead to improved soil and water quality, Agricultural Research Service scientists report. Microbiologist Robert M. Zablotowicz, with ARS' Southern Weed Science Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., discovered the one-celled organisms while studying microbial populations in three Mississippi watershed lakes--Beasley, Deep Hollow and Thighman. The study is part of the USDA-ARS Mississippi Delta Management Systems Evaluation Area (MSEA) project, which is evaluating farming practices in the 7,320-acre area surrounding the three lakes. The project's goal is to improve farming techniques and ultimately enhance soil and water quality in the area. Studies conducted by Zablotowicz and his colleagues indicate that management practices influence lake microbial populations and their impact on water quality. Deep Hollow watershed, where intensive conservation practices such as winter cover crops and reduced tillage are employed, had the lowest sediment and highest algal populations. These algae, Selenastrum and Ankistrodesmus, can absorb and break down herbicides, such as atrazine and fluometuron, commonly used in corn and cotton production. Another major finding, according to Zablotowicz, is that a specific group of bacteria, called fluorescent pseudomonads, can degrade metolachlor, propanil and trifluralin--three commonly used herbicides in the MSEA area. These bacteria and algae can reduce herbicide longevity in Mississippi Delta lakes. Zablotowicz and other ARS scientists will continue to study how microbes, like algae and bacteria, help improve soil and water quality. Knowledge gained from the MSEA study will ultimately be used to develop management techniques that help maintain diverse aquatic microbial populations that can degrade agrochemical pollutants. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA) chief scientific research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Robert M. Zablotowicz, ARS Southern Weed Science Research Unit, Stoneville, Miss., (phone) 601-686-5260, (fax), (601) 686-5422, bzabloto@ag.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 12:26:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20501 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22798 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:47:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net (greensoft.com [204.77.123.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA22697 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906041547.LAA22697@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.154] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A4C82990714; Fri, 04 Jun 1999 10:46:16 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 15:45:20 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Line wrapping Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1157 Goofy line wrapping in messages is usually due to an incompatibility between the line length of the sender and your own window display width. In most cases you can fix it by dragging the sides of your window to make it wider. Then go to the WINDOW menu on the menu bar, where there should be an option called "Save Window Position" or something similar. Save the widened configuration. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 12:45:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20911 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 12:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA24549 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24388 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19911 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04854 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:48:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:48:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: So what is a spader? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1158 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 06:49:27 -0500 From: Allan Balliett To: osalt@teleport.com Subject: Re: So what is a spader? Eugene Canales of Ferarri Tractor will be a featured speaker at the Oct 1-3 Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Farming and Gardening Conf. which is held outside of Baltimore-Washington in Charles Town. With Joel Salatin, his presentations will center around the production, harvesting, and processing of grains on a small holding. He will have a lot of small, appropriate equipment from Europe as part of his workshops. More info, as it is avail will appear at www.igg.com/bdnow. (or email me to be on the direct info list!) We also have one of his spaders! It's wonderful if you can find a tractor that will pull slow enough. Everyone should be aware that Imants sells a 'spader' which is a spader in name alone and does not have the action that makes the Italian machines so wonderful. Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA BIODYNAMICS Now! temp mailing address: 207 W. High Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 Voice Mail: (304) 724-6763 FAX Forwarding (815) 550-6067 >Sue Andersen wrote: >"How's a spader work? What's it look like? Will it turn in a cover crop >and incorporate compost? Does it leave you with a good enough seedbed >for fine seeded crops? What HP does it require? Where do you get 'em?" > >A spader looks a lot like a rotary tiller, but instead of rotating >"tines" it has "spades" on a double cam mounting. The spades look like >small shovel blades - shaped like the Heinz food company shield in their >logo - and move in a mostly up and dowm motion, with a little tilt at >the bottom of the stroke. > >The effect is like pushing a shovel (hence the name shove-l) straight >into the ground, rocking the handle back and forth, then drawing the >shovel back out. All without turning the soil over. The action opens up >compacted soil and allows air and water in, while doing minimal damage >to soil organisms and microlife. > >It won't "turn in" a cover crop, but it will chop it up some and push >some of it down into the soil, where it will break down better then >sitting on top. It will incorporate compost, as loose material on top of >the soil falls into the openings made as the spader travels along the >soil bed. > >It will make a pretty fine seedbed if you make 2 or 3 passes, but I >caution you to find better ways to plant fine seeded crops, as >pulverizing the soil into a fine seedbed is inherently very destructive >to the soil. > >We work the bed to baseball-to-golfball sized pieces (there is, of >course a lot of smaller stuff mixed in), then plant into the soil. For >fine seeds we make a grove 2-3 inches wide, fill it with a soil mix >(much like our starting mix), mix the seeds with sand and spread that >into a groove in the soil mix in the trench. > >The horsepower required depends on the spader (size) and your soil (how >hard). Ours is 3 feet wide, with 4 shovels about 6 inches wide at the >top and 4 inches wide at the bottom. It requires 20-22 HP. > >You can get them as walk-behind (probably 8-15 HP) or standard 3-point >implements. We got ours from Farrari Tractor CIE in California. This is >a one-man operation, I think. We met him first at the Ecological Farming >Conference in California years ago. I think he still goes there every >year. We've seen him at other ag events, too. He is very active on the >west coast. I imagine he would work with anybody in the country. He was >very accomodating with us and we recommend him highly. > >Good growing, > >Will Newman II >Natural Harvest Farm >Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust >www.osalt.org =========================================================================== BD NOW!, the International Biodynamic Agriculture Discussion Forum, dedicated to restoring the earth while producing healthy, high-value, food that promotes human development. Archives to BD Now! are located at: http://csf.colorado.edu/biodynamics/ To Subscribe to BD NOW!, the BD list server, send a msg to listproc@envirolink.org In the body of the message put (do not include the "<>:s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 14:25:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23054 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA01789 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:40:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01751 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:43:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Valerie Berton'" , Sustainable Agriculture Network , Abiola Adeyemi , "Thor Lindstrom (E-mail)" , "Nancy Grudens Schuck (E-mail)" , "Beth1 Holtzman (E-mail)" , "Beth2 Holtzman (E-mail)" , "Bill Wilcke (E-mail)" , "Clark, Andy" , Craig Cramer , "Dave Swaim (E-mail)" , "Gates, Jane" , Mickie Swisher , Molly Bartlett , Shirley Harris , Susan Matsushima , Thor Lindstrom , Tom Larson , Valerie Berton Subject: 10 Years of SARE on the We Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:43:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1159 Colleagues: This month we continue our chapter-by-chapter posting of Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress. It is available on the Web at http://www.sare.org/san/10yrsofsan/ OR go to our home page, click on Publications, and scroll down to SARE: Ten Years and Counting... http://www.sare.org Ten Years of SARE showcases accomplishments of a unique USDA program that has made a difference in the lives of farmers and ranchers across the United States and Island Protectorates. To select a group of innovative, interesting and impactful projects, SARE staff chose one project from each of its four regions for the following 10 categories: Crop Production, Animal Production, Natural Resource Protection, Marketing, Community Development, Education, Pest Management, Horticulture, Professional Development, and Integrated Farm/Ranch Systems. One of the 10 categories will be highlighted each of 10 months. June Highlight: Education. For a free print version of the 96-page book, contact Abiola Adeyemi (aadeyemi@nal.usda.gov) or use the contact information below. Be sure to send your mailing address. Special thanks to Thor Lindstrom and Utah State University for their cooperative work with SAN on this web-based project! Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 14:28:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23135 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09796 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:50:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tool.epix.net (tool.epix.net [199.224.64.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09783 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp63.epix.net [205.238.243.63]) by tool.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999052801/PL) with ESMTP id NAA25457; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37581358.A189AA05@epix.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 13:56:40 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bluestem Associates CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Line wrapping References: <199906041547.LAA22697@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1160 Sanet, When I get 1 mile long messages, I simply copy the message and paste it into a "new message" box. This automatically formats the message into one window. Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 15:15:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA24113 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA23828 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:16:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23806 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA16823 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990604142237.007d4100@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:22:37 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Small scale rotational grazing resource sought Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1161 I need to find some information on small scale rotational grazing. I am working with someone who has a flock of chickens, one goat and one ram and around 7 open acres and wants to know if there is a way to set these critters up in a rotational grazing system. Any web-based resources out there? I search under MIRG and other related topics and what I get is ranch or dairy farm oriented, not geared toward small scale, non-ruminant based systems. Thanks, Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 18:44:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28402 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 18:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA10792 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:59:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10737 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:59:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Ebrnrosen@aol.com Received: from Ebrnrosen@aol.com (3866) by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7TBCa08283 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:59:01 EDT Subject: American Organic Standards Draft Available To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA10752 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1162 Organic Community invited to Comment on American Organic Standards Draft For Immediate Release Contact: Holly Givens May 21, 1999 Organic Trade Association Phone: 413/774-7511 Greenfield, MAA draft of the American Organic Standards developed by the Organic Trade Association (OTA) will be available for comment June 1 through June 30. Growers, manufacturers, brokers, distributors, certifiers, inspectors, retailers and others who produce, handle or sell organic products, as well as environmental, public interest and consumer groups are urged to read the standards at the Organic Trade Association web site (www.ota.com) and submit comments. Initiated by the OTAs Certifiers Council and developed in cooperation with the Quality Assurance Committee of the Organic Trade Association, the American Organic Standards project is designed to update OTAs organic industry guidelines and to build consensus in preparation for the release of federal organic regulations. The draft standards have been compiled by Jim Riddle, Emily Brown-Rosen and Lynn Coody. Commenting on the Draft of the American Organic Standards is one way that the organic community can participate in updating the organic industrys existing stringent standards, said Katherine DiMatteo, executive director of the Organic Trade Association. The work going into the American Organic Standards Project will also be used to guide the industry through the next comment period on regulations proposed by the United States Department of Agriculture. Comments from within every sector of the organic community will be analyzed and used in subsequent drafts of the standards. The American Organic Standards second draft is slated to go through a second public comment period in August, and the final draft will be completed by the end of October. Funding to complete the project is still needed. Businesses or individuals interested in contributing to the project can make payments available to: Organic Excellence Fund, c/o Oregon Tilth, 1860 Hawthorne NE, Suite 200, Salem, OR 97303. The Organic Trade Association (OTA) is the business association representing the organic agriculture industry in North America. Its 1000 members include growers, shippers, processors, certifiers, farmers' associations, distributors, importers, exporters, consultants, retailers and others. OTA's industry advisory boards, which include Organic Certifiers Council, Organic Fiber Council, and Organic Suppliers Advisory Council, focus attention on and recommend service for their particular sectors of the organic industry. Founded in 1985, OTA's mission is to encourage global sustainability through promoting and protecting the growth of diverse organic trade. ********************************** >From the American Organic Standards, Draft 1: The aims of the American Organic Standards are to: *Encompass principles of organic production for crops, livestock, processing, handling, and labeling, and establish certification and accreditation criteria. *Harmonize standards for the production, processing, handling and labeling of organic plant and animal products; *Establish a consensus-based set of standards supported by the United States organic industry and community, including existing public and private certification agencies; *Provide a set of standards to be used to protect consumers and producers against deception, fraud, and unsubstantiated product claims in the market place, including misrepresentation of other agricultural products as being organic; *Enable producers, processors, handlers, inspectors, and certification agencies to assess an operations compliance to a uniform organic standard; *Provide a baseline standard for certification of growers, handlers, and processors as well as the accreditation of U.S.-based organic certification agencies without precluding certification agencies or governments from creating more restrictive standards; *Provide a baseline standard for the negotiation of mutual recognition agreements between certification agencies; and *Facilitate equivalence with international guidelines for organic certification, accreditation and labeling in order to encourage local, regional, and international trade in organic products. ********************************** NOTE to all SANET readers: The AOS draft, all 120 pages, is available in .pdf format at the OTA website (www.ota.com) There is also an on-line form for comments. As a writer working on this project I would like to invite all of you to read and give us your comments, as we are working to make this a consensus based set of standards. At this point it is already a useful comparative document, as it represents a compilation of existing standards, NOSB recommendations, OTA guidelines and previous comments to the USDA, with references to OFPA, CODEX, and EU regulations, among others. We have identified a number of areas where different approaches are in use, and have suggested some alternative options ( see the list on page 119). We are hoping this process will facilitate more dialog on some of the unresolved problem areas in organic standards, and provide a unified approach toward dealing with USDA when the next version of their rule is released. Sincerely, Emily Brown Rosen Technical Director Northeast Organic Farming Association of NJ 33 Titus Mill Rd. Pennington, NJ 08534 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 20:05:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA29975 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:05:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA11099 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:32:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11083 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id QAA01028 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:32:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from research@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990604163418.00908340@mail.got.net> X-Sender: research@mail.got.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:34:18 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: Organic Biz & Regulatory Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA11084 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1163 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 4, 1999 Contact: Bob Scowcroft 831-426-6606 OFRF ANNOUNCES FOURTH BIENNIAL BUSINESS AND REGULATORY CONFERENCE The Organic Farming Research Foundation will hold its fourth biennial business and regulatory conference on the term "organic" August 1-3, 1999 at the Claremont Resort & Spa in Oakland, California. Titled "Organic: Growing into the 21st Century" this conference will present the latest technical and strategic information on a broad range of topics critical to continued expansion of the organic products industry. Of special interest this year is the impact genetically engineered organisms will have on the organic products industry. The expected publication of the Revised Organic Rule in late summer or early fall, consumers' understanding of the term "organic", and the arrival of venture capital to the organic products industry will also be covered in great detail. Some of the confirmed speakers are: Mark Ritchie, The Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy; Ed Begley Jr. Actor, Board Member ECO; Kathleen Merrigan, Administrator, USDA-AMS (pending); Marc Lapp, Center for Ethics and Toxics; Jesse Singerman, Blooming Prairie; Mathew Patsky, Adams, Harkness & Hill; Joe Glorfield, Wolavers Organic Ale; Charles Margulis, Greenpeace; and Katherine DiMatteo, Organic Trade Association. Another forty well known speakers will join an estimated two hundred participants in the three day conference. Conference registration fees have been designed to meet each sector group's needs. Participants may register under the following categories: $110 for Sunday only (Business Focus); $160 single day registration for Monday (Regulatory Focus) or Tuesday (Consumer Focus); $290 for two day registration, Monday and Tuesday; and $365 for the entire three day program. Registration for Organic: Growing into the 21st Century includes access to all panels and workshops as well as receptions, continental breakfasts and lunches, and an Information and Resource Registration Packet. Lodging and travel arrangements must be made separately. For a copy of the brochure or more information contact: Organic Farming Research Foundation, P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061, phone 831-426-6606; fax 831-426-6670; e-mail research@ofrf.org; web http://www.ofrf.org The OFRF Organic: Growing into the 21st Century conference underwriters are: PATRONS-Baccharis Capital Inc.; New Hope Natural Media; SPONSORS-Natural Business Communications; Nature's Equity; Whole Foods Markets; Sheppard, Mullin, Hampton & Richter; Newman's Own Organics, and the Organic Trade Association. OFRF's purpose is: to foster the improvement and widespread adoption of organic farming practices. Our mission is: to sponsor research related to organic farming; to disseminate research results to organic farmers and to growers interested in adopting organic production systems; and, to educate the public and decision-makers about organic farming issues. The Organic Farming Research Foundation is the only organic farmer directed, non-profit organic research foundation in the nation. Since 1990 we have awarded over $520,000 in support of 103 research and education projects. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 20:43:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA00400 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA02501 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA02401 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id RAA06405 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:07:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from research@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990604170932.0099c470@mail.got.net> X-Sender: research@mail.got.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 17:09:32 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: ORGANIC FARMING RESEARCH GRANTS AVAILABLE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1164 For Immeediate Release June 4, 1999 ORGANIC FARMING RESEARCH GRANTS AVAILABLE (Santa Cruz, Ca.) The Organic Farming Research Foundation wishes to remind farmers and other cooperators that the next deadline for submitting on-farm organic research and education proposals to OFRF is July 15, 1999. OFRF provides grants of up to $10,000 for organic farming research and education projects through a competitive grants program. Farmer leadership and/or involvement is a high priority for the OFRF board when they consider each proposal. Jane Sooby, OFRF's Technical Program Coordinator, is available to work with farmers in developing and designing their research proposals. She can also help connect them with local sources of assistance who have already studied the question and who may have some insights on how to solve the problem. To receive a copy of the OFRF PROCEDURES FOR GRANT APPLICATIONS along with a list of all previous OFRF grant awards, please contact: Guidelines, OFRF, P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, Ca. 95061. The Guidelines may also be downloaded from the OFRF website, , or you can call 831-426-6606 and request a copy. Last spring the Board of Directors awarded over $63,000 in support of eleven new on-farm research and education projects. Another $60-70,000 is available for disbursement through the fall 1999 grantmaking cycle. To date, OFRF has awarded over $520,000 in support of 102 organic research and education projects. The next deadline for proposals will be January 15, 2000. OFRF's purpose is to foster the improvement and widespread adoption of organic farming practices. ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 4 20:44:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA00409 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA01695 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:04:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA01678 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id RAA06035 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from research@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990604170641.00907a00@mail.got.net> X-Sender: research@mail.got.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 17:06:41 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: OFRF HIRES FIRST TECHNICAL PROGRAM COORDINATOR JANE SOOBY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1165 For Immediate Release Contact: Bob Scowcroft June 4, 1999 831-426-6606 OFRF HIRES FIRST TECHNICAL PROGRAM COORDINATOR JANE SOOBY (Santa Cruz, Ca.) The Board of Directors of the Organic Farming Research Foundation is pleased to announce that, effective June 1, 1999, Jane Sooby has assumed the newly created position of Technical Program Coordinator. A native Californian, Sooby worked the past four years as a research technician at the University of Nebraska High Plains Ag Lab, a dryland agriculture research facility in western Nebraska. She was also western organizer for the Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society. Sooby has extensive experience working with farmers designing on-farm research projects and analyzing data. She was also active in the local Nebraska OCIA chapter, volunteering as both a board and certification committee member. "Jane is as comfortable in the seed lab as she is on the farm," said Bob Scowcroft, OFRF's Executive Director. "She's ready to jump right in and help growers link with researchers to study the most pressing organic production problems facing us today." Prior to working in Nebraska, Sooby received her M.S. in agronomy from the University of Wyoming and her B.S. in biology from New Mexico State University in Las Cruces. Some of Sooby's early priorities at OFRF will be: monitor and evaluate each OFRF grant recipient's research and education project; circulate each project's results to a national grower audience; help develop projects for future OFRF and/or other institutional funding support; and monitor conventional agricultural publications and associations for information on research projects of interest to organic farmers. Farmers looking for organic production information or who are interested in participating in organic research projects can contact Jane at: 831-426-6606; Jane@ofrf.org; or Jane Sooby, OFRF, P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, Ca. 95061. ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 5 00:56:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA03316 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA14677 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:21:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA14589 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.70]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:25:08 -0500 Message-ID: <37581C3B.F52ECE1A@cillnet.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 13:34:35 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: Line Wrap Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1166 Hi All I am on Netscape. I've looked around and in View I found a Wrap Long Lines so I have turned it on and guess I will see what it does. I couldn't find any thing in preferences. Floyd To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 5 01:00:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA03353 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA14590 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:21:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA14445 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.70]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 23:25:11 -0500 Message-ID: <37581E27.C59D6A0A@cillnet.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 13:42:47 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: [Fwd: probiotics and chicken feed] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9A4D5618856EBD6C7B576538" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1167 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9A4D5618856EBD6C7B576538 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The closest list I know of is APPPA ( news letter ). E-Mail ppoultry@yahoo.com c/o Diane Kaufmann; 5207 70th St.; Chippewa Falls, WI. 54729; 715-723-2293 voice; 715-723-2262 Fax; Floyd --------------9A4D5618856EBD6C7B576538 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu ([152.1.45.61]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:58:26 -0500 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA24930 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:07:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA24921 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 21:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool184-cvx.ds44-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.61.84]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00030 for ; Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990602180623.009cb300@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 18:06:23 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: probiotics and chicken feed In-Reply-To: <199906022210.SAA21273@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Lisa, et al poultry-heads. Is there a list for "sustainable poultry?" Or "appropriate meats?" I'd be interested in a list like that. I don't know much about probiotics. We don't use them. I like to think that the aquatic plants, weeds, and reclaimed water have homeopathic properties. Salatin uses acidophilus. Below is a rambling note on poultry feeds. Two recipes from Joel Salatin's work, and our own spin on it. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but most commercial poultry feed includes meat, blood, and bone meal from slaughterhouses. We stopped using feeds with renderings a couple of years ago. At my school's facility, public concern regarding "Mad Cow Disease," or more precisely, transmissible bovine spongiform encephalopathy, seems well founded. TBSE is caused by a prion, also known as a "slow virus" or virino, and passes from mammal to mammal through the food chain. When mammal offal is inhaled or ingested, e.g. incorporating sheep scraps into cow feeds, the prions infect new hosts. English rose gardeners, who use bone meal as a soil amendment, seem to be contracting human spongiform encephalopathy called Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in inexplicably high numbers. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease was very rare, only found in human cannibals until a few years ago. Prions withstand cooking, and feeding mammal renderings which may contain prions to poultry may be unwise. If the poultry can't pass it on, the dust from the feed could still infect workers. Animal protein that our chickens do not make themselves comes from fish and insects. Fish offal can be pelletized for poultry feed by freezing fish byproducts in the solar freezer until there's enough to merit a mill run. Fish skin, bones, heads, and entrails can be run through a pelletizing mill with alfalfa greens. The pressure of the mill actually cooks the ingredients while pressing pellets, which slows decomposition and reduces odors. Landscaping with perennials along the pens can act as insectories. Unlucky insects from these borders become part of the poultry diet. >From Joel Salatin's book/video "Pasture Poultry Profits." He feeds his Polyface Farm birds the following (approximately): 60% corn 11.5% peanut meal 6.5% soybean meal 5.5% roasted soybeans 7?% meat & bone meal 4% fishmeal 2.5% alfalfa meal 1.5% kelp meal for trace metals .5% brewers yeast a tiny bit of probiotics like acidophilus By mass, the Polyface recipe: 4,600 lbs. of cornmeal 875 lbs. of peanut meal 500 lbs. soybean meal 425 lbs. roasted soy beans 525 lbs. meat and bone meal 300 lbs. fish meal 200 lbs. alfalfa meal 110 lbs. kelp 50 lbs. yeast 20 lbs. probiotic Another diet for a farmer with 3000 birds 2240 lbs. tritical 800 lbs. soy bean meal 150 lbs. alfalfa pellets 9 lbs. calcium 4 lbs. poultry vitamins 7 lbs. XP4 phosphorus Our regenerative poultry diet per dozen layers: 600 lbs. of cracked corn and/or other grains 150 lbs. of cracked peanut/soy and/or other bean/seed 50 lbs. roasted peanut/soy and/or other bean/seed 80 lbs. fish meal 40 lbs. alfalfa 20 lbs. aquatic plants (at least) 10 lbs. yeast and brewing wastes reclaimed water - as much as they want poultry grit with lime - as much as they want - That's what we try to do. With student labor, the true numbers vary. The fish offal comes from our aquaculture operation: mostly tilapia and carp. Fred FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Earning an MS in Sustainable Aquaculture at Cal Poly Pomona, I enjoy the rewards and challenges of living, learning, working, and playing. The dedicated, hard working team of students, staff, and faculty is the best part of being involved with the John T. Lyle Center for Regenerative Studies Anyone *CAN* live a comfortable, modern life, without the big environmental footprint. http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/ Check out my peers in the NFB. They have it together! http://www.nfb.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------9A4D5618856EBD6C7B576538-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 5 01:42:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA03686 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA13003 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:10:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA12977 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 01:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.97]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 00:14:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3758B158.17955C1F@cillnet.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 00:10:49 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: [Fwd: Small scale rotational grazing resource sought] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8E1C17236FD37323AA497A85" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1168 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8E1C17236FD37323AA497A85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Joel Salatin is all I can say. I started raising pastured poultry 2 years ago after reading Pastured Poultry Profits and it has worked very well. I had no previous knowlege of chickens at all maybe that was good. I dont think he is on the internet, if he is I would like to know about it. I currently suscribe to APPPA Grit which is very informative on such things. Their E-Mail address is ppoultry@yahoo.com hope this helps you as much as it helped me. Floyd --------------8E1C17236FD37323AA497A85 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu ([152.1.45.61]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:21:23 -0500 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA23828 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:16:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23806 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA16823 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 14:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990604142237.007d4100@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:22:37 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Small scale rotational grazing resource sought Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk I need to find some information on small scale rotational grazing. I am working with someone who has a flock of chickens, one goat and one ram and around 7 open acres and wants to know if there is a way to set these critters up in a rotational grazing system. Any web-based resources out there? I search under MIRG and other related topics and what I get is ranch or dairy farm oriented, not geared toward small scale, non-ruminant based systems. Thanks, Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------8E1C17236FD37323AA497A85-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 5 08:40:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA06267 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 08:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA08369 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:32:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA08362 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 07:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FLYLO (ppp234.cy-net.net [208.21.195.43]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA09592 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:32:00 -0500 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BEAF1C.D28AA800@FLYLO>; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:29:53 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEAF1C.D28AA800@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: livestock gardening (common sense) books: Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 06:18:30 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1169 If everyone is going to toss out their most useful books, I have one I wouldn't be without. Carla Emery's Old Fashioned Recipe Book. A large section on raising chickens (and most any other farmyard critter) naturally. Huge garden/ harvest / canning sections, and about every other topic you could imagine. Runs about $25 in most places, and it's massive (890+ pages) Because of the Y2K topics this book may be hard to find. Homesteader's Connection and AlpineHaus both normally stock it. I can get the info if anyone is interested. Note: A couple of folk wrote directly to me after my chicken lament and said they'd tried raising chickens w/out commercial feeds and had poor results. You can do it but it's tough to find all the things they may need. Instead, try game bird starter. The formula is pretty much the same as chicken starter, but turkeys and game birds can't stand the medications, so it's unmedicated. The cost will be a bit more. Right now I'm on a new 'thread'.,, realizing that grasshoppers are inactive at night, I've been trying to determine where all mine are going. Said that they sleep on the tips of grass stems, but I can't seem to find any. could it be possible they're all sleeping somewhere together? (Thinking of ways to net them for the chickens.) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 5 16:06:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09817 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 16:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19430 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:06:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA19366 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sci ([167.114.21.41]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:05:33 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990605140048.0092d9e0@mail.ipnet.com.mx> X-Sender: dmhinds@acnet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:04:30 -0500 To: Sprinkraft@aol.com From: Douglas Hinds Subject: Re: Medical applications of GE technology Cc: laszlo@gol.com, mritchie@iatp.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1170 Hi, While I would agree with Steve's point regarding GMO's in general terms (distinguishing agricultural from medical appliations), my emphasis was as stated: "GMO's should be best reserved for resolving pathologies unresolvable by other means". "For resolving pathologies" implies medical applications, that is true; while "unresolvable by other means" is self explanatory: A good example would be a birth defect requiring that a product supplied by a missing gene be administered constantly during the lifetime of the person (or conceivably but improbably, the animal or plant) involved, often putting that life in danger and/or making it highly tenuous and complicated (also a medical application - but again, my emphasis is on "resolving pathologies unresolvable by other means"). Since the intended function here is to correct "pathology" (an anomaly at best), NO mass use is contemplated, and the only "environment" receiving the GMO would be that of the target organism (i.e., the patient's own body). This is the main point: That's the only context in which it's needed - an anomalous one. (This focus also removes most of the economic stimulus behind the current frenzy driving the transnational conglomerates's GMO / R & D budgets - which simply demonstrates where their hearts and minds are really heading). In the end, the current rush toward R & D of GMO's will spell grave losses for the firms now investing in them, but that's their self chosen, prime area of concern anyway and these endeavors represent a calculated risk that as mentioned, will simply not fulfill their expectations (but probably not break them). Everyone else's problem is: How to prevent or minimize the untold damage already being done to the biosphere by GMO's already, now being and to be released, in the meantime. THAT IS a serious issue and I suggest: By charging for it. Accountability is exactly what's lacking. Otherwise, the buck will continue to be passed to the public at large and I for one am unwilling to continue paying for someone elses sick intent to profit at my and everybody else's expense. Certain asses must be kicked, so to speak. To that end, I have looked for an institution offering a law degree program in the U.S. available via the internet, but haven't found one yet, so someone else will have to do the necessary legal defense work called for, at present: Law suits, injunctions, etc. An ongoing and extensive public relations effort must also be waged on many fronts, but it seems clear that all this is being done. (So I'll get back to my own little area of endeavor - the creation or enhancement of a better way of doing things in this neck of the woods, that can in turn connect with and hopefully, constructively influence the course of events on the northern side of our common border). Hasta entonces, Douglas Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (CeDeCoR) (Center for Community and Rural Development) Petronilo Lopez No. 73 Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 MEXICO e-mail: dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/06/99 at 7:24 PM Sprinkraft@aol.com wrote: >In Digest 36, Douglas Hinds wrote: > >> Perhaps GMO's should be best >> reserved for resolving pathologies unresolvable by other means (i.e. >> inserting the gene for prothrombin formation in a hemophiliac) > >Tony: > >What Doug Hinds indicates is an idea that is common among many antagonists >toward GE/GMO technology. Strategically, the protagonist point of view is to >not mix the medical and the agricultural issues because they are not entirely >the same...However, the two ( Med and Ag) do merge on down the line when >crops or animals are created that express a medical product...and also there >is the sidebar regarding the use of antibiotic markers in the crops...and >even the use of an antibiotic to reverse the Terminator gene technology in >the field. > >In a medical-therapeutic application, at least the patient has the right to >disagree when offered the remedy. For consumers of the food crops/products, >they are not offered any right to choose. My personal opinion is that the >medical applications may have a place-my father has had a pig heart valve for >two years-but in general a more intelligent lifestyle would prevent some of >the maladies that GE ag intends to solve, such as cholesterol, low or non >caffeine coffees....and I also am wary of creating crops that have vaccines >in them. > >The strategy is to focus on the agricultural applications because the >technology is indiscriminately employed on millions of acres and now, as many >forecasted, we are seeing the unintended results...including non-target >insects that are affected by the technology, rapid resistance among target >pests, loss of the use of Bt because it is expressed on millions of acres >over a 100 day timeframe, crop losses or lower yields, poor leadership within >the conventional farming sector-who push the technology even though the >market is unstable...and so on. > >Although the same sort of ovesight should be expected within the medical >community, including the US FDA and the Center for Disease Control, the more >imminent concern is towards the broad-acre experiment in the field and the >contamination of the conventional food supply-and potentially the organic >food supply as well. > >Steve Sprinkel >Waukon, Iowa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 5 20:22:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA12434 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA03837 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:27:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA03825 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:27:01 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com (8036) by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7YOKa11719 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <690d02df.248b0c21@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:26:25 EDT Subject: topic for next digest To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1171 The USDA/ARS in Salinas Calif. is begining a dedicated program to Organic Research. The following position is part of that effort. We will also be looking for someone with a background in plant pathology and/or microbial ecology to work on this research team. The USDA-ARS in Salinas CA is seeking an Agricultural Science Research Technician (Plants) to help conduct reserch on organic production of small fruits and vegetables. A background in field research, data analysis, and organic production is essential. Highly motivated individuals with the ability to work in an independent fashion are encouraged to apply. U.S. citizenship is required. For more information, please contact Dr. Carolee T. Bull, USDA-ARS, 1636 E. Alisal St., Salinas, CA 93905. Phone (831)755-2889. For general information and application forms, contact Ms. Elsa Chavez at (831)755-2800. Applications must be postmarked by June 19, 1999. USDA-ARS is an equal opportunity provider and employer. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 5 21:15:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA12894 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 21:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA10825 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:26:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA10768 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 20:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id RAA19683 for ; Sat, 5 Jun 1999 17:26:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from research@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990605172838.00a5eca0@mail.got.net> X-Sender: research@mail.got.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 17:28:38 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: USDA/ARS Salinas Organic Research Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1172 >X-From_: ctbull@aol.com Sat Jun 5 16:39:21 1999 >From: CTBull@aol.com >Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:35:47 EDT >Subject: USDA/ARS Salinas Organic Research >To: kendall@mercury.cor.epa.gov, jimleap@cats.ucsc.edu, phgold@cats.ucsc.edu, > meisterb@ix.netcom.com, Barbara_Moritsch@ccmail.itd.nps.gov, > nadine_golden@hotmail.com, nperigo@willamette.edu, > cshennan@cats.ucsc.edu, findit@cats.ucsc.edu >CC: naos@agron.iastate.edu >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 > >Greetings, > The USDA/ARS in Salinas CA is initiating a dedicated organic research >program. We are begining by looking for two people who would like to work on >projects for oganic production. The first position advertised below is for >an organic field research manager. We will soon be looking for someone with >a background in plant pathology/ microbial ecology for the same project. If >you know anyone that would be interested in working on this project, please >have them email or call me. It is a very exciting time for this type of >research in the USDA/ARS. >Thanks >Carolee Bull > >The USDA-ARS in Salinas CA is seeking an Agricultural Science Research >Technician (Plants) to help conduct reserch on organic production of small >fruits and vegetables. A background in field research, data analysis, and >organic production is essential. Highly motivated individuals with the >ability to work in an independent fashion are encouraged to apply. U.S. >citizenship is required. For more information, please contact Dr. Carolee T. >Bull, USDA-ARS, 1636 E. Alisal St., Salinas, CA 93905. Phone (831)755-2889. >For general information and application forms, contact Ms. Elsa Chavez at >(831)755-2800. Applications must be postmarked by June 19, 1999. USDA-ARS >is an equal opportunity provider and employer. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 6 14:01:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA19650 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA18483 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:12:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eye.micron.net (eye.micron.net [198.60.253.88]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA18472 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (cboi15p37.boi.micron.net [207.70.43.38]) by eye.micron.net (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA17165 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <375AAC30.668F@micron.net> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 11:13:20 -0600 From: The Schraders Reply-To: bschrade@micron.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Salatin chicken feed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1173 In a 1999 addendum to "Pastured Poultry Profits" Salatin gives this recipe: corn 5000 lb roasted soybean 3100 lb oats 1100 lb feed grade limestone 500 lb Fertrell Nutri-Balancer 300 lb Thorvin kelp 55 lb In other places in the book he says milo or grain sorghum can be substituted for the corn, or triticale for corn and oats. He also says the corn can be cracked and some of it ground. He says the oats are best "crimped" (how the heck does one crimp oats?). And he says one can use soybean meal instead of roasted soybeans. (Another book says baby chicks shouldn't have limestone grit, to use another kind of grit to begin with.) ANYWAY, nowhere in this recipe do I see animal protein??? Diane near Boise To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 6 14:24:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20006 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 14:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA10581 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:53:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10564 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-5.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.53]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA03455; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:55:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199906061755.MAA03455@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: , "Mark" Subject: Re: Small scale rotational grazing resource sought Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:56:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1174 Your goat and ram are ruminants? Right? If you are not going to rotate(MIG), I would highly recommend sticking with ladino clover and kentucky bluegrass. Close to pure ladino for the chickens. They would be best capable of taking set stocking. The electric netting is pretty neat way of rotating chickens. Best wishes, Greg ---------- > From: Mark > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Small scale rotational grazing resource sought > Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 1:22 PM > > I need to find some information on small scale rotational grazing. I am > working with someone who has a flock of chickens, one goat and one ram and > around 7 open acres and wants to know if there is a way to set these > critters up in a rotational grazing system. Any web-based resources out > there? I search under MIRG and other related topics and what I get is > ranch or dairy farm oriented, not geared toward small scale, non-ruminant > based systems. > > Thanks, > > Mark > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 6 18:10:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA22926 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 18:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA19892 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:37:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA19825 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 17:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.199] (dial176.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.176]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA17379 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:37:38 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:37:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Nutrient content of hamster, rat & mouse manure? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1175 Dear sanet, I'm working with a garlic grower in Southern New Mexico that is using manure from hamsters, gerbils, rats and mice. We'd like to know if anyone has ever tested this type of manure to determine its nutrient makeup? Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 6 19:40:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA24150 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA10676 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:07:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA10588 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 19:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990606230701.UXYM11386.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Sun, 6 Jun 1999 16:07:01 -0700 Message-ID: <375AFF9F.4F580D57@home.com> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 16:09:19 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, nrboone@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1071 References: <199906062210.SAA09041@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1176 > Subject: Nutrient content of hamster, rat & mouse manure? > > Dear sanet, > > I'm working with a garlic grower in Southern New Mexico that is > using manure from hamsters, gerbils, rats and mice. We'd like to know if > anyone has ever tested this type of manure to determine its nutrient > makeup? > > Thanks, > > Nathan Boone > Agricultural Consultant > The content of the manures wil vary depending on the feed, so unless you also had the feed formula for a given nutrient analysis of a particular manure, it would be of no use. bill evans To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 08:28:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA01711 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA19726 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:08:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from www0f.netaddress.usa.net (www0f.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA19666 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16567 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 1999 11:08:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990607110820.16566.qmail@www0f.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.35 by www0f via web-mailer(M3.0.0.118) on Mon Jun 7 11:08:20 GMT 1999 Date: 7 Jun 99 06:08:20 CDT From: Ann Ellis To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: sweet corn X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.118) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id HAA19717 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1177 Could anyone tell me if floating row cover will keep my sweet corn from cross pollinating with the field corn that is approximately 100 feet away from it? Also would floating row cover help to keep the ear worms out of my corn? Thanks. Ann Ellis ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 10:47:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04322 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24741 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:18:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from psci.net (psci.net [63.65.184.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA24728 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from as10-d75-sc-psci.psci.net [63.65.187.75] by psci.net (SMTPD32-4.07) id A34F817B0152; Mon, 07 Jun 1999 08:20:47 EST Received: by as10-d75-sc-psci.psci.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BEB0BE.594F5A00@as10-d75-sc-psci.psci.net>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:18:40 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEB0BE.594F5A00@as10-d75-sc-psci.psci.net> From: "Kenneth J. Eck" To: "'Nathan/Rachna Boone'" , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Nutrient content of hamster, rat & mouse manure? Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:16:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA24729 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1178 My recommendation would be to have the manures professionally tested at a reliable laboratory. Here in the Mid-West, livestock production (i.e. hogs, cattle, poultry) is quite common and "standards" or "averages" for manure nutrient content exist, but actual nutrient makeup may deviate severely due to individual diets, how manure was retrieved and stored, whether the animal's water supply burst (dilutions), whether the feeders had a hole in it (concentration), etc. We recommend testing every couple of loads if the source is believed to be fairly uniform and stable; more frequently if makeup is expected to change. For your samples I'd recommend the same. If this isn't feasible, just test at least once to at least get a ballpark idea of what your grower is dealing with. NMSU should have a specialist in their ag. department that should be able to provide a list quality labs that your ag. school considers reliable. Kenneth Eck Soil & Water Conservation Specialist Purdue Agronomy Department ---------- From: Nathan/Rachna Boone Sent: Sunday, June 06, 1999 10:38 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Nutrient content of hamster, rat & mouse manure? Dear sanet, I'm working with a garlic grower in Southern New Mexico that is using manure from hamsters, gerbils, rats and mice. We'd like to know if anyone has ever tested this type of manure to determine its nutrient makeup? Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 10:48:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04335 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07128 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:52:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07118 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool050-max5.ds8-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.2.150]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA11338 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 06:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990606210853.0083ac80@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 21:08:53 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: Nutrient content of hamster, rat & mouse manure? In-Reply-To: <199906062210.SAA09041@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1179 Nathan, I do not know, but I'll bet your numbers will be very similar to fruit bats. Bats are little mammals, but not rodents, so it's just an estimate. I expect that a lot of your numbers depend on what you feed these cute little vermin. If the feed is raised organically, the manure would be. Is this a snake farm? Fred FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus and local groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at: http://www.regen.org (BWA, SAFER, Regen site that kick's butt!) http://www.csupomona.edu/~vltenbrink/index.html (Victoria's Black Walnut Page) http://www.rokcircle.com/bbs/ (The Wilderness Forum ***ON HIATUS***) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 10:58:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04584 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09124 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:01:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09075 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09260 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990607100652.007ed100@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:06:52 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: Nutrient content of hamster, rat & mouse manure? In-Reply-To: <199906062210.SAA09041@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1180 I would be incredible leery of using ANY rodent manure, especially in the Southwest. Dozens of people have been sickened and many have died due to the hantavirus, which is carried by deer mice droppings. One person died because he cleanded out a dwelling which had accumulated a significant number of droppings. Recent reports state that this year is a particularly risky year for hantavirus infection. Maybe this guy has a rodent farm, but I would not take any chances. And if your contact is growing garlic on a large scale, can h/she get a volume worth the effort and risk involved? Go here to learn more about hantavirus: http://www.hantavirus.net/ Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 11:01:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04701 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11867 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:05:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11785 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14761 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 14:05:51 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-44.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.216) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 14:05:51 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990607100047.009538e0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:04:31 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Rapeseed Oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1181 >From another list, this question: > My husband found a web site (by accident) that was proclaiming >canola oil (a.k.a. rapeseed oil) wasn't fit for human consumption... that >it was for industrial use only, and that Canada (where apparently a lot of >it is manufactured) was going to outlaw it soon (for human consumption). I >haven't heard of any of this in the news, and wondered if there was any >truth to it. I'm guessing that this stems from some confusion about the potential health impacts of genetically engineered canola, but I ask my Canadian colleagues anyway. Are you fixin' to ban canola oil? Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 12:03:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA06664 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA23437 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:47:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web604.mail.yahoo.com (web604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA23420 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990607144644.14172.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web604.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 07 Jun 1999 07:46:44 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:46:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Belgium problems--fwd To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1182 FYI Saneteers June 7, 1999 Belgium Food Scandal Spreads -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A.P. INDEXES: TOP STORIES | NEWS | SPORTS | BUSINESS | TECHNOLOGY | ENTERTAINMENT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Filed at 8:13 a.m. EDT By The Associated Press BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- The government added Belgian butter to its list of banned foods today, denying residents yet another key ingredient in their increasingly meager diet because of the dioxin food scandal. Leaders huddled in crisis session for a fourth straight day today, while hundreds of butcher and baker shops closed because the government already has banned sales of Belgian poultry, eggs, fatty beef and pork, and all byproducts. The food industry federation said the 11-day crisis over tainted animal feed already has cost producers $500 million. The United States blocked European Union imports of pork and poultry, and Singapore banned all meat products from the 15-nation group. Countries from Switzerland to South Korea took similar measures against Belgian products. The EU's executive Commission was negotiating with Belgium's government and assessing whether the list of more than 1,000 farms that used some of the 176,000 pounds of dioxin-laced animal feed was sufficient to start freeing up part of the Belgian food market again. ``The list is now final,'' said Prime Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene, ending days of insecurity. Now that the farms have been pinpointed, the government hopes it will be easy to trace any contaminated meat, eggs and byproducts. The government and leading opposition parties also agreed to set up a special inquiry commission to investigate how cancer-causing dioxins ended up on Belgian dinner plates so easily. Dioxin is a byproduct of the manufacture of some herbicides and pesticides. The health minister blamed the lack of controls on the products that went into animal feed. Checks on food come under three politicized ministries. Two officials from the company that provided the animal feed fattener that most likely contained the dioxin remained under arrest on fraud charges. Prosecutors said Monday the pollution could not have been caused by a leak in a mechanical oil tank, increasing the likelihood of fraud. The scandal was also tearing at the center-left coalition ahead of Sunday's elections. The farm ministry has traditionally been a fiefdom of Dehaene's Christian Democrats and the Socialists said they were outraged how the scandal could take so long to solve. Belgium's health and farm ministers resigned last week after it became clear they had known about the problem for a month without informing the public or the prime minister. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 12:07:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA06759 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21795 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:39:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay.interim.iamworld.net (relay.interim.iamworld.net [204.91.241.82]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21786 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: hawiaa@access.digex.net Received: from LOCALNAME (pool-209-138-146-241.bltm.grid.net [209.138.146.241]) by relay.interim.iamworld.net (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA13239; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.16.19990607104253.2fe715c6@pop.iamdigex.net> X-Sender: 10005843@pop.iamdigex.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (16) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:42:53 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: New Wallace Institute Report on Organic Cropping Systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1183 For immediate release: Friday, June 4, 1999 Contact: Rick Welsh, Wallace Institute, (301) 441-8777 ORGANIC CROPS ARE COMPETITIVE WITH CONVENTIONAL SYSTEMS, NEW WALLACE INSTITUTE REPORT CONCLUDES Farm profits from organic cropping systems can equal or exceed profits from conventional rotations in the midwestern United States, according to a new study by the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture. This central finding from the Institute's report, "The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States," is consistent with the recent increase in midwestern (and national) acreage under organic production. There has been dramatic growth in the U.S. and worldwide in the production of and demand for organically produced food and fiber. In addition, a growing number of consumers have been willing to pay premium prices for organic products, which has induced processors, in many cases, to pay premiums to farmers for organic grains. Nonetheless, the study found that premiums are not always necessary for organic systems to outperform conventional systems. To help farmers, policy-makers, and others to better understand the profitability of organic agriculture, Rick Welsh, Wallace Institute policy analyst, analyzed a set of diverse academic research studies comparing organic and conventional grain cropping systems. Following a comprehensive review of the "best science" available on the subject, Dr. Welsh provides an assessment and summary of the conditions under which growing organic crops is profitable. When organic systems were more profitable than conventional rotations, it was due to one or more factors, including: --lower production costs; --higher net returns for crops grown in the organic rotations; and --drought hardiness, allowing higher performance in drier areas or during drier periods. Beyond the economic benefits of organic systems in the U.S. Midwest, there are potential health benefits provided to farm-level workers and the natural environment. According to the report, "[g]iven the potential economic, health, and environmental benefits of organic production, a greater public policy commitment in research, investment, and education is needed." The author concludes with recommendations for state and federal agencies and private sector firms to advance organic agriculture. Copies of "The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States" are available for $15 each from the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Rd., #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770-1551. The report is also available online at the Institute's Web site, http://www.hawiaa.org. ----- The Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture is a nonprofit, tax-exempt research and education organization established in 1983 to envourage and facilitate the adoption of low-cost, resource-conserving, and environmentally sound farming systems. Henry A Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Rd Ste 117 Greenbelt MD 20770-1551 Phone: 301-441-8777 Fax: 301-220-0164 Web site: www.hawiaa.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 12:19:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA07068 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:19:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22185 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:41:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web602.mail.yahoo.com (web602.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA22161 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990607144337.14506.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web602.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 07 Jun 1999 07:43:37 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: forward from Times on GMO and compost thanks To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1184 Hello Saneteers, I've been away for a week--fishing for Striped Bass and Blue Fish off the Great Point of Nantucket Island. Yowee!! Here's a forward from the NY Times. Thanks to all that put the compost info into the public domain. Its a nice thought to know I can now go back to the archives and recapture your wisdom as I continue on my composting odyssey. The worms really do sound like the better route. (And the idea of blending up the scraps and pouring directly on the soil is something I am going to try.) But alas my totally urban husband can not mentally handle the idea of using worms to eat the scraps coming from our kitchen and small garden. Even the notion of composting is a stretch. So I am starting small and when the notion of composting is no longer a scary thing, the worms will arrive!! And no way am I letting him near Misha's post on rats. Eeek. Thankfully we have three Dalmatians and two neighbor cats that regularly prowl our space. Although I did wander out one night to the trash cans and startle an opossum quietly munching in an opened trash can. best to everyone, kate June 7, 1999 Europe's Profound Fear of Food By JOHN MICKLETHWAIT or anybody from General Motors who is even slightly insecure about his or her position, a trip to London has become a distinctly Kafkaesque experience. Pick up a tabloid newspaper, flick on a television talk show, study the graffiti on street walls and you are greeted by a constant refrain: "G.M. is evil." At Notting Hill dinner parties, people plot how to drive G.M. back to America; in Soho pubs people mutter that G.M. is "dangerous" and "disgusting." Just about every titled person in London, from the Marchioness of Worcester to Prince Charles, wants to get poor G.M. In fact, the "G.M." that has so enraged Britons stands for "genetically modified," as in "G.M. food" (though opponents now seems to have stopped adding the word "food," presumably out of fear that it will be contaminated by the deadly initials). According to one recent poll, only 1 Briton in 100 (a pollster's way of saying nobody) thinks that genetically modified products like herbicide-resistant soybeans and delayed-ripening tomatoes are good for society. Despite an expensive advertising campaign by the pioneer in the field, Monsanto, feelings run deep in most of Europe and even parts of Asia. In India activists working for Operation Cremation Monsanto have burned fields of genetically modified crops. >From America, these odd noises coming across the Atlantic and the Pacific may seem like a slightly dottier, more global replay of Britain's mad cow farce. After all, in the United States, there are genetically modified foods in just about every supermarket, and biotechnology is something you buy shares in, not something you boycott. Nevertheless, the current fuss should alarm Americans. The furor in Britain, which dates back to February, began as a bit of routine political tit-for-tat. Britain's Conservative Party, which took a drubbing over mad cows, accused Tony Blair's Labor Government of ignoring health concerns about genetically altered food. Labor replied (correctly) that there was no credible scientific evidence that it was dangerous. But somehow the phrase "Frankenstein Food" got out, and soon Monsanto (which some public relations genius had rather creepily decided to rebrand as a "life sciences" company) was in the dock. Last week, an organic farmer from Gloucestershire named Charles Windsor (yes, the Prince himself) gave the anti-G.M. crusade a royal seal of approval, warning about "an Orwellian future" in The Daily Mail. Most arguments against the technique are more sentimental than logical. Genetic modification, albeit of a more gradual sort, has taken place in fields for centuries without any harm to human beings. In many poor parts of the world, the efficiency of genetic modification might be the difference between a harvest and starvation. The most genuine scientific uncertainty seems to be over whether genetically modified seeds wreck local ecosystems, spreading with the winds and contaminating neighboring plants and insects. Prince Charles's argument that scientists shouldn't try to splice together genes that God deliberately kept apart resonates on a continent where people already have had plenty of unpleasant surprises involving "modern food," even without genetic modification. Britons were a little shocked to discover in the mad cow controversy that their farmers had been feeding bits of dead sheep to cows. Now the European Union has ordered a huge cull of Belgian chickens after the revelation that they had been contaminated by a cancer-causing chemical. It is a good bet that similar angry and questioning voices will start to be heard in the United States. American agribusiness is not noticeably healthier than the European variety. The $5 billion organic food industry has plainly grown out of the beard-and-sandals ghetto. Although it is hard to imagine the home of the microwave dinner and the Big Mac banning new sorts of food, the argument that genetically modified products should be labeled may prove hard to resist. Were it just to be a matter of slapping the odd "G.M. free" sticker on cans of beans, then the whole process might be worthwhile. But a second, nastier trend is also at work. The vilification of Monsanto is just one example of a growing anti-American slant to the debate about food in Europe. Indeed, food safety now seems to be one of the easiest places for ugly nationalist emotions to hide. Europe's Common Agricultural Policy is the single nastiest piece of protectionism in the world; its American equivalent is not much better. Politicians, whether they are Presidential candidates in Iowa or prospective deputies in Normandy, conspicuously avoid talk of reform. It is not inconceivable that in a decade's time people will look back on the current rows about food as a turning point for both globalization and what used to be called the Western alliance. If so, that old saying -- "what is good for G.M. is good for America" -- may have an ironic ring. John Micklethwait, the New York bureau chief of The Economist, is the co-author of a forthcoming book on globalization. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 13:03:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08761 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19222 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:09:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA19196 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA10510; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:09:13 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma009830; Mon, 7 Jun 99 11:08:42 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:08:42 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD8C@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Rapeseed Oil Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:08:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1185 Cass, > found a web site (by accident) that was proclaiming > canola oil (a.k.a. rapeseed oil) wasn't fit for human > consumption... that it was for industrial use only... Many varieties of rapeseed produce an oil that is not edible, oil that contains hydroxy- fatty acids and maybe other toxic or indigestible substances. Breeding efforts developed varieties that produce edible oil, and these are usually called "canola." Other varieties have been developed to accentuate the production of indigestible substances in the oil, which have various industrial uses as lubricants and feedstocks. Most of the breeding work has not involved transgenic methods. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 13:03:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08801 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19718 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:11:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19687 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.25] (gl-ppp05.hevanet.com [204.119.60.25]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28737; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906071611.JAA28737@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 09:07:52 -0700 Subject: FW: New Web Resource on Farm Animal Health From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1186 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Web Resource on Farm Animal Health Date: Mon, Jun 7, 1999, 6:43 AM STORY LEAD: New Web Resource on Farm Animal Health ---------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 7, 1999 Kathryn Barry Stelljes, (510) 559-6069, stelljes@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- "Healthy Animals" is a new online compilation of Agricultural Research Service news and expert resources on the health and well-being of agricultural animals and fish. The "Healthy Animals" web site is at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/np/ha Updated quarterly, the new web site provides links to recent ARS research accomplishments involving the health of cattle, chickens, turkeys, swine, sheep, goats, horses, catfish and other aquaculture fish species, as well as related research on deer and other wildlife. The site also provides complete contact information for the more than 25 ARS research groups that conduct studies aimed at protecting and improving farm-animal health. ARS produced the new web site to help inform veterinarians, researchers, producers, animal industry groups, news media and others interested in research. The site does not provide treatment advice for producers with sick animals or give individualized recommendations. Web browsers may want to bookmark the site as a resource for locating experts. An index lists ARS research locations covering about 70 animal-health topics. These range from specific diseases, such as Lyme disease, to broad subjects like nutrition, parasites and vaccines. Each quarter, one article in "Healthy Animals" will focus on a particular element of ARS animal research. The first issue highlights the four ARS national programs devoted to keeping animals healthy and productive: Animal Health, Animal Pests and Parasites, Aquaculture, and Animal Well-being and Stress Control Systems. To receive quarterly announcements of each new issue's arrival online, contact Kathryn Barry Stelljes, ARS Information, at (510) 559-6069 or by e-mail at stelljes@asrr.arsusda.gov. ARS is U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Caird Rexroad, Jr., Animal Production, Product Value and Safety, Beltsville, Md., (301) 504-7050, fax (301) 504-4721, e-mail cer@ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 13:12:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09073 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:12:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19575 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:10:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19535 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26891>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:15:13 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Cass Peterson cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Jun7.111513cdt.26891@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:08:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Banning Rapeseed Oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1187 No we are not fixin' to ban canola oil! Canola was bred from oilseed rape during the 60's by Prof Steffanson at the university of Manitoba to provide an alternative to wheat for prairie farmers. It differs from its industrial ancestor (rapeseed) by its lack of two compounds that are somewhat toxic- Glucosinolate & Erusic acid. All canola varieties licensed for sale by the Canadian Grain Commission contain zero Glucosinolate & zero Erusic- hence the term "double zero". Any other varieties must be grown as industrial rapeseed, usually under contract. Rapeseed is still grown in Europe & in Asia for human consumption. The old-world varieties contain varying amounts of both compounds. Glucosinolate in small amounts, is an irritant rather than a toxin. It it (if I'm not mistaken) the compound that gives mustard its 'zing'. We don't eat enough of it to do ourselves any damage although some individuals may be sensitive. Veg-oil refined from canola is highly mono-unsaturated like olive oil. However, because canola is so highly unsaturated (~92% as opposed to 85% for olive oil) it is often partially hydrogenated to give it shelf life in industrial baking & food processing applications. Persons wishing to limit their consumption of 'trans' fatty acids avoid hydrogenated oils. A recent Japanese study seemed to conclude that a diet rich in canola oil led to decreased levels of "good" cholesterols. Efforts to duplicate the study results at the U of Manitoba were inconclusive. GM canola is an on-going issue. I use mostly olive oil for all my cooking needs. Cass Peterson on 06/07/99 09:04:31 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: Subject: Rapeseed Oil >From another list, this question: > My husband found a web site (by accident) that was proclaiming >canola oil (a.k.a. rapeseed oil) wasn't fit for human consumption... that >it was for industrial use only, and that Canada (where apparently a lot of >it is manufactured) was going to outlaw it soon (for human consumption). I >haven't heard of any of this in the news, and wondered if there was any >truth to it. I'm guessing that this stems from some confusion about the potential health impacts of genetically engineered canola, but I ask my Canadian colleagues anyway. Are you fixin' to ban canola oil? Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 14:18:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA10968 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA16449 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:00:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from www14.clever.net (www14.clever.net [209.196.14.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA16362 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chitch (r-152.94.alltel.net [166.102.152.94]) by www14.clever.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA23420 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101beb106$5f586020$5e9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Reply-To: "Jere Hitchcock" From: "Jere Hitchcock" To: Subject: The safe alternative to beef, pork, poultry, etc. Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:54:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEB0E4.D5FCD020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1188 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEB0E4.D5FCD020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ostrich: =20 You hear so much about the negative aspects of chicken and beef industry = feeding all sorts of things to their animals to gain weight faster (not = necessarily safer). Why has the Ostrich been such a guarded secret? =20 We raise the Ostrich and have some 250 large birds. Our birds are as = close to "organically raised birds" as is possible. The diet of the = Ostrich contains no hormones, steroids or growth additives. We grind = and mix (corn, alfalfa pellets, soy bean meal, hay which we raise, and = vitamins and minerals) our own feed. The ostrich also graze on grass. In = addition we choose not to feed any animal byproducts from other animals, = fish, bone or blood meal. The fresh and frozen meat has no = preservatives. =20 Of the birds we raised last year, one of the 90 day old birds weighed 90 = pounds. With natural weight gain like this is it is unnecessary to have = any "artificial boosters." (That would only create leg problems!) The = birds weigh about 240 -260 pounds in 12-14 months at the time of = processing. The meat is a dark red meat, high in Iron, lower in = calories (140 vs. 211) for beef and 97% fat free. Ostriches do have fat = which is outside of the muscles unlike beef which stores fat in the = muscle (marbling). I almost forgot to mention that it is also a very = good tasting meat. =20 When the concept of eating a "safe, organically raised meat" finally = "catches on" with the public, the world will be a better and safer = place. To learn more about the Ostrich alternative to red meat and = poultry you are welcome to visit our ranch, the JC Ostrich Ranch in = Danielsville, GA or visit our web page www.jcranch.com. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEB0E4.D5FCD020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Ostrich:
     
    You hear so much about the negative aspects of = chicken and=20 beef industry feeding all sorts of things to their animals to gain = weight faster=20 (not necessarily safer).
    Why has the = Ostrich been=20 such a guarded secret?
     
    We raise the Ostrich and have some 250 large = birds.  Our=20 birds are as close to "organically raised birds" as is=20 possible.   The diet of the Ostrich contains no hormones, = steroids or=20 growth additives.  We grind and mix (corn, alfalfa pellets, soy = bean meal,=20 hay which we raise, and vitamins and minerals) our own feed. The ostrich = also=20 graze on grass. In addition we choose not to feed any animal byproducts = from=20 other animals, fish, bone or blood meal.  The fresh and frozen meat = has no=20 preservatives.
     
    Of the birds we raised last year, one of the 90 day = old birds=20 weighed 90 pounds.  With natural weight gain like this is it is = unnecessary=20 to have any "artificial boosters."  (That would only = create leg=20 problems!) The birds weigh about 240 -260 pounds in 12-14 months at the = time of=20 processing.  The meat is a dark red meat, high in Iron, lower in = calories=20 (140 vs. 211) for beef and 97% fat free.  Ostriches do have fat = which is=20 outside of the muscles unlike beef which stores fat in the muscle = (marbling). I=20 almost forgot to mention that it is also a very good tasting = meat.
     
    When the concept of eating a "safe, organically = raised=20 meat" finally "catches on" with the public, the world = will be a=20 better and safer place.  To learn more about the Ostrich = alternative to red=20 meat and poultry you are welcome to visit our ranch, the JC Ostrich = Ranch in=20 Danielsville, GA or visit our web page www.jcranch.com.
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEB0E4.D5FCD020-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 15:58:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA13722 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA10361 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:01:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA10329 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990607190249.7817.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:02:49 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:02:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Urban Farming--Fwd SF Examiner To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1189 Philadelphia has an Inner City Growers Association and at least one certified organic CSA--called SeaChange. I thought others with an interest in urban farming would enjoy this article from San Francisco. kate Growth industry: Farming in The City Katherine Seligman OF THE EXAMINER STAFF May 23, 1999 1999 San Francisco Examiner URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/archive/1999/05/23/NEWS470.dtl Backyard operations He is a farmer without a single piece of farm machinery, without overalls, without even a back yard. "I like the fact that I'm a San Francisco farmer," said Robert MacKimmie, as he tended one of the 23 bee hives that people "host" for him in their back yards. A farmer in San Francisco? If it seems as unusual as arugula in Kansas, consider this: More than $2 million in commercial crops was harvested in San Francisco last year. The unsensational but steady number represents a world not often glimpsed by most harried city dwellers - wheat grass farmed in the Mission District by a self-described "wheat grass messenger," orchids on a Bayview hillside, designer lettuce in an industrial park and honey harvested in practically every neighborhood, more than a ton of it this year by MacKimmie. At a time when the state's farmland is shrinking, urban farms have carved a niche. The federal Census of Agriculture even found that farm land in San Francisco tripled from 1992 to 1997, a fact city agriculture officials would like to, but find hard to, believe. "I don't know where they get their figures from," said Jay Seslowe, deputy agriculture inspector in San Francisco, who knows the plots of soil that can qualify as cropland and maintains they've remained fairly constant. "There have been no big increases. If you had land in San Francisco, you'd make more money if you built lofts instead of grew lettuce. Of course we'd like to see more growing." If the federal figures are true, it would mean that San Francisco farmland grew to a modest 21 acres over the five years, up from 7 acres. That's still dainty compared to the more than 27 million acres being farmed statewide - an acreage that slipped 4.4 percent from 1992 to 1997. Also due to the daintiness of City farms, don't look for John Deere tractors parked outside, hay bales, horses or other farming accouterments. More likely to be seen are farms like the garden lovingly tended by Eva Moen, proprietor of Wheat Grass Farm and Depot on 15th Street. Her 75- by 45-foot back yard is a burst of primary colors, a bright red patio jammed with white shelves of sprouting green wheat. Moen, 59, takes care of the planting, watering and marketing of 350 flats a week of the green sprouts. Much of her business comes from regulars who stop by her juice bar for a cup of the pulpy chlorophyll-rich potion and a chaser of "Rejuvelac," a fermented wheat juice said to aid digestion. "Everything that's in the soil is in the wheat grass juice," said Moen, who subsists solely on it until supper each night. Though she has run a rental agency, an appliance repair business and a home repair company, her own roots aren't far from wheat. She was born on a wheat farm in Norway. Years later, suffering from alcoholism, she said, she discovered that wheat grass helped conquer her addiction. Her business, which opened in 1994, has as much to do with educating people about the health properties of wheat grass as it does about business. In this educational aspect of farming, she is not alone. Most of San Francisco's farmland is run or sponsored by either the Garden Project or the San Francisco League of Urban Gardeners (SLUG), which aim to connect people more closely to the land and to teach responsibility rather than to bring in big bucks. "Seeing what it takes to grow food is really critical," said Kathi Colen, director of urban agriculture for SLUG. "It gives you more respect for what you eat. It fits into community health issues both physically and spiritually." SLUG works with community gardens near public housing projects in Hunters Point, Sunnydale and off Alemany Boulevard. Volunteers tend crops of corn, collard greens, lettuce, carrots, tomatoes and peppers, then distribute produce to the community. The Garden Project employs recently released inmates from the County Jail to work its half-acre garden on Carroll Avenue. It is there, over the beets, garlic, potatoes and lettuce, that ex-offenders have met and befriended seniors, who come to pick up fresh produce. "It's a teaching place," said director Catherine Sneed. "Young men who have preyed on seniors have said that by giving them vegetables, they've learned not to prey on them. They see them as human beings." Aside from being an object lesson, veggies from the Garden Project also end up at the Ferry Plaza farmers market and in salads devoured by foodies at Chez Panisse and Hayes Street Grill. Kim Nguyen also sells her crop - orchids - at the farmers market. Nguyen, who grew up in Vietnam watching her mother tend the delicate flowers, raises 20 to 30 different varieties in a greenhouse behind her Bayview home. "I've always loved orchids," she said. "When I don't see something green, like flowers inside a house, I don't feel happy." Nguyen gave up restaurant work about five years ago, she said, to devote herself to the orchid business. Though the wind howls outside her hillside home, the orchids fare well inside the greenhouse, oblivious to the outside climate. The City's damp climate largely dictates what will grow and what won't. And it's the diversity of climate - the many microclimates in this city - that has added the distinctive bouquets, tastes and textures to beekeeper MacKimmie's product. "The honey from Pacific Heights is buttery and creamy," he said. "I can't quite figure out what it is. McLaren Park is cinnamony. It even changes throughout the season." On borrowed land MacKimmie, who is a high-tech recruiter working from his Pacific Heights home when he's not in his beekeeping veil, tends hives in nine locations, including Noe Valley, Cole Valley and the Castro District. Like many San Franciscans, he has no back yard, so he has to improvise by using other people's. "When I'm at social events I say I'm a high-tech recruiter and I also keep bees," said MacKimmie, who soon will begin selling to stores under the label City Bees. "They're such an interesting thing that no one wants to talk high tech. They all want to talk about bees. Some of my best sites are coming from parties." A self-taught beekeeper, MacKimmie works without gloves as he takes the wooden hives apart to check on bee health and productivity. On one recent afternoon, he pointed out a queen bee he'd marked with green paint at a hive in Cole Valley. With the bees collectively buzzing at a low roar, he smacked a honeycombed shelf against the hive to remove a few thousand of them while his visitors cowered. "This wouldn't be unique at all in Iowa," he said, as he checked the hive for crowding, a warning that the hive residents may be creating a new queen and planning to split for new digs. Beekeeping is not technically considered a farming activity in the federal census, but the state Department of Food and Agriculture keeps track of "certified producers" who sell at farmers markets. The department, which has issued licenses for five years, lists 4,000 such producers now who sell to 300 markets. Many of those are in urban areas, said Jim Tippett, a state statistician with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Indeed, he suspects the small producers help account for the growth of farming in urban areas. "In Fresno, for example, there are 700 Hmong farmers who are growing strawberries on a few acres," he said. "I don't think you had that 10 years ago." Pressure from development Small producers are listed in Palo Alto, Los Altos and Berkeley. In those communities, as in San Francisco and the state as a whole, they face pressure from spreading development. Colen from SLUG believes there is a future in tiny urban gardens and farms because consumers value produce tended by hand. "Urban agriculture is on the upswing," she said. "The higher the profile of food projects, the better off we'll be. It gives you more respect for what you eat." _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 7 18:44:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17688 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA18067 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:47:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rttinc.com ([198.161.101.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA17933 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:46:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default [139.142.10.114] by mail.rttinc.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id AD645C7014A; Mon, 07 Jun 1999 15:45:08 MST From: "Glenn Mainland" To: "'Cass Peterson'" , Subject: RE: Rapeseed Oil Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:43:24 -0600 Message-ID: <000901beb12e$dcd34d80$9b0a8e8b@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Disposition-Notification-To: "Glenn Mainland" In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990607100047.009538e0@nb.net> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1190 I know of no move, here in Canada, to ban human consumption of Canola oil. The May 1999, Vol 15, Issue 8, of the University of California , Berkeley, Wellness Letter, reports on the apparent beneficial effect of Canola oil in preventing heart attacks, and recommends it's use. Glenn Mainland Raven, Alberta. -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Cass Peterson Sent: June 7, 1999 8:05 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Rapeseed Oil >From another list, this question: > My husband found a web site (by accident) that was proclaiming >canola oil (a.k.a. rapeseed oil) wasn't fit for human consumption... that >it was for industrial use only, and that Canada (where apparently a lot of >it is manufactured) was going to outlaw it soon (for human consumption). I >haven't heard of any of this in the news, and wondered if there was any >truth to it. I'm guessing that this stems from some confusion about the potential health impacts of genetically engineered canola, but I ask my Canadian colleagues anyway. Are you fixin' to ban canola oil? Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 09:56:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA29083 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA29185 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:58:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA29122 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:54:25 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:53:51 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, cpete@nb.net Subject: Re: Rapeseed Oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1191 I think the "unfit for human consumption" angle comes from the production of two very distinct types of canola, or rapeseed, oil. High erucic acid rape is valuable as an industrial oil, but is toxic. By the way, this is an example of pollen-pollution that predates the GE-wars debate. I have heard that some jurisdictions mandate the growing of only one type of canola (either industrial or culinary), in order to avoid cross-pollination of the two --> which would produce rapeseed useless for either application. Maybe a crop scientist out there will write in with a more precise description of this, but I've certainly heard no rumours of an impending canola ban! BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 10:18:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29586 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA26791 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:45:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26744 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:49:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'nesare@zoo.uvm.edu'" Subject: Northeast SARE Seeking Technical Committee Nominations Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:49:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1192 Please reply to NE SARE ( nesare@zoo.uvm.edu ) or address below. Northeast SARE Seeking Technical Committee Nominations The Northeast Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education program will soon have three openings on its Technical Committee. Members of the Northeast SARE Technical Committee review grant proposals and advise the SARE leadership on a range of topics that may affect program development. Nominees should be active in the agricultural community and have an understanding of the issues in sustainable agriculture. Materials on the SARE mission and the work being done by the program are available from the Northeast Region office at the address below, and at www.uvm.edu/~nesare/. The open positions are in the following areas: An agricultural economist; A rural sociologist; A farmer raising horticultural crops Appointments to the Northeast SARE Technical Committee run three years. The commitment includes one meeting a year (in mid March) and the time involved in evaluating grant proposals before the meeting. Costs associated with attending the meeting are paid by the program. To apply, or to nominate a candidate, please send or e-mail name and contact information, along with a brief description of qualifications and background, to Northeast SARE, Hills Building, University of Vermont, Burlington, Vermont 05405. E-mail: nesare@zoo.uvm.edu . ************************************* Helen Husher Writer/Editor Northeast Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) Program Hills Building -- Carrigan Drive University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405-0082 Phone: 802-656-0554 Fax: 802-656-4656 ************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 10:19:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29603 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA27318 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:46:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27242 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:50:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: UFW defeat/Watsonville vote Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:50:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1193 >From Michele Gale-Sinex: -----Original Message----- From: Misha [mailto:mgs@mailbag.com] Sent: Monday, June 07, 1999 11:41 PM To: san@nal.usda.gov Subject: UFW defeat/Watsonville vote Andy, would you please post the following to SANET-mg? Thanks. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Howdy, all-- I'm locked out of my UW e-mail account at present thanks to network and software problems. I'm also on vacation this month of June, so am off SANET in that time. But thought this analysis of the UFW's defeat in the Watsonville vote last week might interest some of you, so am fwd'ing this from home via Andy. Sorry for the formatting, but my home e-mail package (Mozilla) won't let me easily get rid of the space at the left. Don't know whether I ever mentioned this, but my first independent activism, at about age 15, was circulating petitions for the UFW. I was living (if you can call it that) in a factory, shipbuilding, and refinery town downriver from Philly. La Causa meshed precisely with the issues my family dealt with as Poorly Compensated Chattels of Sun Oil Co. :^) Eh, stories for another time, when harp music and Guinness are both flowing. peace misha gale-sinex > Why Strawberry Fields Have Been > Barren for UFW > Many factors in union's loss last > week in Watsonville vote > > Maria Alicia Gaura, Chronicle Staff Writer > > Monday, June 7, 1999 > > If any workers could benefit from unionization, it > would be those who toil in California's strawberry > fields -- at least that was what organizers for the > United Farm Workers of America thought. > > Berry workers are among the lowest paid in the > agricultural industry, and the stooping required to > tend the ground-hugging plants can lead to crippling > back injuries. Strawberry fields also are doused > with more pesticides per acre than any other > outdoor crop, increasing worker exposure to toxic > chemicals. > > But despite years of effort and millions in costs, the > campaign to organize the state's $783 million > strawberry industry has reaped a scanty harvest for > the union founded by Cesar Chavez. The UFW has > won a contract with only one berry grower so far -- > a small organic farm in Santa Cruz County that > employs only about 40 workers at peak season. > > UFW officials insist that workers have been > frightened away from unionization by threats and > intimidation from industry leaders. But Friday night's > election defeat at Coastal Berry Co. of Watsonville > -- a company that openly encouraged its 2,000 > workers to embrace the union -- has left most > observers seeking other explanations. > > `` `Why not the UFW?' That is the question > everyone is asking,'' said Watsonville Mayor Oscar > Rios. ``Given the conditions in the fields, why are > workers not running to join?'' > > Just as puzzling -- why are today's strawberry > fieldworkers apparently less willing to unionize than > the workers who defied violence to join Chavez in > the 1970s? > > ``The farm labor force today is very different than it > was 30 years ago,'' said Don Villarejo, executive > director of the California Institute of Rural Studies. > ``In 1970, half of all California farmworkers were > born in the U.S. But today 95 percent are > foreign-born, and 42 percent admitted (to > government interviewers) to being here without > papers.'' > > Today's farmworkers also are less assimilated into > U.S. culture than they were in the past and not > easily persuaded that social institutions like unions > can replace the safety net offered by extended > family ties. > > In addition, many are young. > > ``A lot of these kids are 17 or 18, and when you > mention Cesar Chavez, they think you're talking > about Julio Cesar Chavez, the boxer,'' Villarejo > said. > > The UFW targeted Coastal Berry for the first thrust > of its organizing campaign because the company is > the largest berry grower in the country, and because > owner David Gladstone, who bought the company > from Monsanto in 1997, is an investor of union > pension funds who welcomed the UFW's overtures. > In addition to signing a neutrality agreement with the > UFW, Gladstone penned an open letter to company > workers, urging them to consider the benefits of > bringing in a union. > > Yet the relatively generous pay and benefits offered > by Gladstone may have worked against the union, > because the UFW had little extra to offer the > workers in exchange for their dues. > > Industry leaders, many openly jubilant at the UFW's > travail, claim workers rejected the union because > they are well-paid, well-treated and proud of their > work. > > ``The workers who came to me said they felt the > UFW was thrust upon them by the company,'' said > James Gumberg, an attorney representing the > in-house union that came out of nowhere to defeat > the UFW twice at Coastal Berry. ``They said they > were reasonably content with what they had, and > they didn't want to upset the apple cart.'' > > But to Villarejo, pocketbook issues are only part of > the hurdle the UFW failed to clear at Coastal Berry. > Though he supports unions, Villarejo gives little > credence to UFW claims that workers are too > frightened to organize. > > Instead, he argues that workers have developed > strong networks of loyalty to their foremen and > managers that the union has been unable to > penetrate. At any given company in the Pajaro > Valley, most workers come from the same region or > village, and many are related. > > Under the existing system, workers come from their > homes in Mexico to a particular farm because they > know other people there. The foreman may be a > friend, an uncle, a brother-in-law, a cousin -- part > of a network of extended family. > > ``These are relationships based on the passing of > favors back and forth, and there is a lot of loyalty to > management,'' Villarejo said. ``The question (the > union needs to pose) is whether it is better in the > long term to have a system of democratic > representation and a secret ballot or the system > currently in place. > > ``I've always said that this (union drive) would be a > five-year effort,'' Villarejo said. ``The UFW has > made progress, but the workers are very divided.'' > > Manuel Pastor, professor of Latin American and > Latino studies at the University of California at > Santa Cruz, agrees that kinship and loyalty are > major obstacles to the UFW. > > ``Unions are more successful where there are fewer > social ties between management and workers,'' > Pastor said. ``If the managers and foremen were > white (as was usual 30 years ago), that might have > made a difference.'' > > UFW officials insist that their defeat at Coastal > Berry was due to a grower conspiracy and vow to > continue organizing until they prevail. > > ``All those arguments (about workers voluntarily > rejecting the union) are just standard anti-union > propaganda,'' said Marc Grossman, a UFW > spokesman. ``They don't explain why we've won > 18 secret ballots since 1994.'' > > According to Grossman, UFW membership has > risen from 20,000 to 27,000 since the group began > actively organizing after Chavez's death in 1993. > That is a fraction of the 80,000 members the UFW > claimed in its heyday, but it proves that workers are > embracing the union, he said. > > ``They say we can't beat this one grower (Coastal > Berry), even with both hands tied behind their > back,'' Grossman said. ``But they're being > disingenuous. They've written our obituary half a > dozen times before, but they've been wrong. We're > not going away.'' > > 1999 San Francisco Chronicle Page A1 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 10:34:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA29967 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA06185 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:59:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06173 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:03:42 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Organic food book Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:03:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1194 Apologies if this message has already crossed the airwaves... -----Original Message----- From: Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) [mailto:A.DOROSZENKO@cabi.org] Sent: Monday, June 07, 1999 5:00 AM To: 'ecol-agric' Subject: FW: Organic food book FYI > -----Original Message---- [Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)] - > > ORGANIC FOOD A GROWING BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY > June 4 /99 > Toronto Star > Ellen Roseman > According to Wayne Roberts, author of what this story calls a new book > that makes a powerful case for eating locally grown, wholesome, pure, > unadulterated, uncontaminated food, those looking for a business > opportunity, an undeveloped market just waiting to be tapped, should think > organic. > The story says that organic food accounts for less than 2 per cent of the > market, but it's been doubling every year since 1990. And it will surge, > according to Roberts, once Canadians realize how the government has > allowed mega-food producers to tamper with their fruits, vegetables, meat, > fish and grains. > The book, Real Food For A Change, a $21.95 paperback from Random House of > Canada, is, the story says, packed with fascinating facts and figures on a > subject dear to all our hearts - what we put in our mouths. The story > says that Roberts, who teaches green entrepreneurship at York University, > spent three years writing it with wife Lori Stahlbrand, a former CBC Radio > broadcaster, and Rod MacCrae, who co-ordinates Toronto's food policy > council. > Roseman says that thoufh she is fairly health-conscious and went > vegetarian a few years ago, she was struck by the potential problems the > authors unearthed about the foods we eat every day. Industrial food > production, with its dependence on crowding and chemicals, can be a > breeding ground for disease, they charge. Wheat, for example, when stored > for long periods in grain elevators, can develop fungi and moulds that, in > turn, produce poisons called mycotoxins. They can get into our bodies > when we eat bread and pasta. The story says that cattle are hauled to > giant meatpacking plants, where they stay for two or three months before > slaughter. Lack of activity, crowding and high-protein diets turn these > feedlots into "little more than sick bays." > Crowding is also endemic in poultry barns, where antibiotic feeds are > used to combat disease and promote growth. > One-third of all antibiotics used in Canada are fed to farm animals, the > book says. But overuse can lead to the evolution of "superbugs" that > withstand drugs - in humans as well as chickens. > Fish farms, too, are overcrowded and can induce disease.. So, fish are > routinely fed antibiotics and washed with pesticides. Reading labels is > no help. Labels only tell you about additives, which are put into the food > during processing. They don't tell you what was done to the food before it > gets to the processing plant. > Take genetically engineered products. Some 36 altered foods are already > approved by the Canadian government, including canola, soybeans, corn, > squash and potatoes. > Monsanto's New Leaf Potato, for example, which was approved in 1996, is > spliced with a germ that kills predatory beetles. But the health impact is > a real hot potato, they say. > Buying organic is a way to avoid being subjected to gene-splicing or > irradiation, the authors say. Many products have labels that guarantee > they have been certified by an independent agency, separate from > government. > This is a profoundly optimistic book, despite the damning information on > factory foods. It's full to brimming with stories of entrepreneurial food > producers and retailers making a difference in their communities. Annex > Organics, for example, operates from the roof of a warehouse on Eastern > Ave. and is Toronto's only certified organic food producer. It supports > three people in their 20s, who produce crunchy sprouts for 2,000 > customers, as well as tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, herbs and edible > flowers. Annex Organics breaks every rule of conventional farming, the > book says. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 11:38:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01611 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29495 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:43:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29439 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:43:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (3957) by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7HXNa07332 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3a6ee845.248e85a7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:41:43 EDT Subject: The Fires Burn In Europe To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA29444 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1195 The Fires Burn In Europe Taking Stock of US Policy in the World Trade Organization An ACRES,USA Special Edition 7 June 1999 By Steve Sprinkel St. Paul, Minnesota The fires burn in Europe, as the public controversy continues over genetically modified agriculture, but the flames flicker along the Minnesota-South Dakota border. Farm leaders and state legislators attending the USDA-USTR World Trade Organization Listening Sessions in St. Paul came out smoking on 7 June in an event attended by both Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura and North Dakota Governor Ed Schafer. Afflicted by poor commodity prices, overseas disaffection for genetically modified crops and the un-abated trend towards corporate consolidation and the vertical control of agricultural products, northern farmers spoke openly of the pain and distrust they face every day. " I think that if we had been told five years ago that this new technology would bring us so much grief, we would never have supported it," said one North Dakota grain producer. " People call this another Farm Crisis, but I feel like I have been in the middle of a crisis for most of my farming career, and I don't know how I can wish the present system on the next generation." Farmers, farm leaders, and agriculture sector representatives-from corn growers to barley malters to union leaders- met in Minnesota and told a tale of regional and international farm crisis woe to officials from the USDA, the US Department of State and the office of the US Trade Representative. The event was hosted by Minnesota Department of Agriculture Commissioner Gene Hugoson. Neighboring state officials including South Dakota's Darrel Cruea and North Dakota's Roger Johnson were in attendance. The Iowa Department of Agriculture, host of the upcoming July 12th Listening Session, wisely sent an observer to help plan for the Des Moines Session. After a day mostly spent listening to agricultural public and private sector representatives reading from the same script ( "level the playing field, defend the GMOs with "sound science" and end-foreign- subsidies) the South Dakota contingent closed the meeting on an entirely different note. Supported by fiery South Dakota State Senator Frank Kloucek and Minnesota State Representative Ted Winter, grain and livestock producers Bob Thullner and Mark Ukert passionately underscored the affects and causes of the farm crisis, blaming the multinational corporate seed and chemical sector for betraying rural communities, and the US government for failing to diligently review the scientific, economic and sociological consequences of agricultural biotechnology. Many afternoon presenters asked why the US government was so strenuously defending biotechnology policy when it has exposed farmers to much turmoil. Instead of questioning the affects the new crops have had on rural communities, officials continue to support the products manufactured by a few politically powerful corporations. Although biotechnology remains center-stage in this and other farm and food conferences, attendees also discussed trade policy affected by foreign currency valuations, foreign nation subsidies and policies ( particularly Canada's), and grain storage policy. Jesting in an acerbic Midwestern manner, Larry Green, a Minnesota farmer, thanked the USDA Foreign Agricultural Service for defending his banana production- Mr. Green reported that he and his wife have four ornamental banana trees on their summer porch. The US recently won a WTO test case against the United Kingdom and other countries over a US complaint that European policies were detrimental to fair trade- and the exports of US based companies operating in Central and South America. Many viewed the WTO banana case as a preamble to much larger issues, including the long-standing export impasse over hormone-grown beef and the much-to-be contested acceptance of genetically engineered agriculture. In summarizing the WTO banana decision, Jodi Slocum, a Wisconsin organic grower representing Farmer to Farmer, an international rural communities-oriented non-governmental organization, reminded the audience that the US government is openly caught in an obviously defective compromise when it prohibits the domestic application of materials that are nonetheless manufactured in the US and exported for use overseas, on the very products that the EU community did not want on fruit imported to member countries. South Dakota legislator Kloucek is calling for the USDA to appoint National Farmers Union President Leland Swenson to the US delegation attending the World Trade Organization Ministerial meetings in Seattle, Washington in November. Kloucek, aided by Dave Frederickson of the Minnesota Farmers Union, farmers Thullner, Ukert and other upper Midwest region producers, said that farmers need to be represented at the highest level since the policies that are implemented affect farmers more fundamentally than the chemical and seed companies that they now view as monopolistic transnational entities responsible to no one. However much the crisis confronting US family farms was described, Jim Schroeder , USDA Deputy Undersecretary for Farm and Foreign Agricultural Services, reminded farmers and their supporters that the World Trade Organization meetings this fall will most likely ignore "ag-sector consolidation, poor commodity prices, monetary policy, and GMO labeling." The discussions instead will be confined to the criteria and protocols laid out in the 1994 Uruguay Round that lead to the formation of the 134 member World Trade Organization. Responsible parties must therefore address their concerns according to the WTO agreement. Although limiting, the WTO agreement is not an entirely closed-loop endeavor. In order to reverse or amend WTO rules, current concepts within the Agricultural Provisions section need to be addressed. Among those Provisions, Most Favored Nation Status, which exempts the EU and the NAFTA under a special agreement, is potentially at risk since these continental treaties benefit traders and not producers. Dispute Settlement within the WTO also is one area that is much in need of clarification, particularly in the criteria used to empanel the three-member Dispute Settlement Body. Generally speaking, the public needs to go to school on the WTO and determine how it can be made more realistically democratic. ( http://www.wto.org) Internal Support may be the WTO Agricultural Provision that offers GE antagonists the best avenue to debate, define and confine the new technology. According to the USDA Foreign Agricultural Service, Internal Support covers " Government policies ( which) have significant consequences beyond a countrys borders.Such policies can impose costs on other countries and world markets by encouraging overproduction or inducing production of specific commodities." The explosive market-share of GMO crops can here be cited as an example of "inducing production of specific commodities". GMO technology has long been advertised for its now dubious yield potentials, and in particular, the planting of herbicide resistant crops has lead to a swift increase in total world acreage planted to them, in areas where they were never grown before. Overproduction is a result. Over supply and lower prices can in this context be addressed. Internal Support is broken into two categories, named "amber" and " green", ostensibly identifying them as "caution" and " permitted". Amber policies include "price supports(and) input subsidies". In this category, one can more cogently argue that US government participation in the development and commercialization of genetically engineered crops and farm in-puts is at least questionable under WTO, and represents a conflict of interest that the developing world in particular must be wary of. The US government has invested many billions in the development of the technology, co-owns a number of patents approved for its protection, and has openly supported and defended biotechnology politically at the expense of less controversial agricultural production systems, both in terms of cash outlays and in public sector enterprise, i.e., the awesome efforts of the US State Department, US Trade Representative and USDA to assure an unobstructed market for products co-financed by government. The St. Paul Listening Session was the second US event held in preparation to the Seattle WTO Ministerial. As you will note by refering the WTO website, the Ministerials are tantamount to the writing or adoption of state constitutions. Upcoming Listening Sessions: JUNE 16 - Memphis, Tennessee (Agri-Center International) CONTACT: Joe Gaines (615) 837-5160 STATES: Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Mississippi, Arkansas JUNE 24 - Indianapolis, Indiana (Indiana State Fair) CONTACT: Julia Wickard (317) 232-8778 STATES: Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, West Virginia JUNE 29 - Sacramento, California (California Department of Food and Agriculture) CONTACT: Marjorie Beazer (916) 654-0462 STATES: California, Hawaii, Arizona JUNE 30 - Pullman, Washington (To be determined) CONTACT: Lisa Schumaker (360) 902-1926 STATES: Washington, Idho, Oregon, Alaska JULY 8 - Austin, Texas (The Texas State Capitol) CONTACT: Dawn DeBerry (512) 475-1615 STATES: Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, New Mexico JULY 12 - Des Moines, Iowa (To be determined) CONTACT: Joan Kiernan (515) 281-5323 STATES: Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska JULY 19 - Burlington, Vermont (To be determined) CONTACT: Theresa Doyle (802) 828-2430 STATES: Vermont, New York, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island JULY 23 - Bozeman, Montana (To be determined) CONTACT: Montana Department of Agriculture (406) 444-3144 STATES: Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, Utah JULY 23 - Newark, Delaware (University of Delaware) CONTACT: Brenda Minor (302) 739-4811 STATES: Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland -30- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 12:07:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02218 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20117 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:18:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pop05.iname.net (pop05.iname.net [165.251.8.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20061 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from canada.com ([216.38.10.36]) by pop05.iname.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id LAA29302 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <375D3455.18032C92@canada.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:18:45 -0400 From: Chris Lanteigne Reply-To: chrisL@eharvest.com Organization: eHARVEST.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-compaq (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: eHARVEST.com Agriculture Starts Here!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1196 eHARVEST.com wishes to help you farm the net. We offer the leading agri-search engine, careers resource site, free classifieds, pig trading and more. Also receive a FREE copy of our Agri Internet Magazine. The magazine is published quarterly and includes the top 1000 Agri Internet websites plus articles of interest to farmers. Visit our various sites to see what eHARVEST.com is all about!! http://www.eharvest.com eHARVEST.com!! http://careers.eharvest.com eHARVEST careers!! http://classifieds.eharvest.com eHARVEST classifieds!! http://trading.eharvest.com eHARVEST Pig Trading!! http://chat.eharvest.com eHARVEST Chat Visit eHARVEST.com today for all your Agri Internet needs. Contact Chris Lanteigne at chrisL@eharvest.com com if you have any questions or need help to get started farming the Internet. I'll be glad to help. Take care, Chris Lanteigne http://www.eHARVEST.com/ email: chrisL@eharvest.com ps If you have a website, feel free to link to us or include a free search engine on your site. Just follow this link: http://www.eharvest.com/linktous.cfm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 12:49:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03172 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA10393 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:53:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10372 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:52:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.249] (dial182.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.182]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18788 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Hanta virus in rodent manure Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1197 Dear sanet, Thanks to many of you who responded to my question about using rodent manure from cage-raised pet store varieties of hamsters, gerbils, rats and mice. A large concern from many was the possible hanta virus linked to mice feces and urine. I contacted the Infectious Disease unit of UNM hospital in Albuquerque that handles all hanta virus cases in the state. They told me that ONLY wild Deer mice carry the hanta virus. Pet store mice do not carry hanta virus. However, the state vet said that rodents carry several GI pathogens that affect humans including salmonella. Thus, all rodent manure should be composted for a year to eliminate GI pathogens. Thanks to all! Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 13:02:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03486 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14912 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:04:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.rodaleinst.org (mailhost.rodaleinst.org [205.147.214.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA14902 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:04:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lgurk ([205.147.214.43]) by mailhost.rodaleinst.org (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA14187 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:58:09 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Laura Gurk" To: Subject: The Ultimate Educational Experience! Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:05:00 -0400 Message-ID: <000101beb1c8$aa2e7720$2bd693cd@ns.fast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1198 On Saturday, June 26th, 1999 The Rodale Institute Experimental Farm will be hosting a new and exciting educational conference. The conference is called a Learning Capsule and is entitled "Regenerative Farming and Gardening: Today's Solution for a Healthier Future." The day starts at 8 a.m. and consists of 18 seminars, workshops, and panels running simultaneously throughout the morning and afternoon. Participants can create their own "menu" of education from a range of topics designed to accomodate everyone from the experienced farmer and small business to the beginning gardener. The step-by-step seminars explore the history, philosophy, and concepts of the subject while providing practical help and advice. Talk to experts with over 25 years experience farming and gardening organically!! Call and reserve your space NOW!! Seating is limited and on a first come, first served basis. A bag lunch is included with registration. Snacks, coffee, and beverages will be offered throughout the day. Everyone who registers will receive a free Info-Pack that contains a comprehensive collection of all the handouts from each seminar. Come to the place where this country's regenerative movement began for a hands-on, information-enriched, fact-fortified day of workshops! For more information and registration fees, please call (610) 683-6009. Visit our homepage at www.rodaleinstitute.org . The Rodale Institute Experimental Farm is located in Kutztown, Pennsylvania which is inbetween Allentown and Reading, PA. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 13:26:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03986 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21438 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21432 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.76] (pa-ppp40.hevanet.com [204.119.60.76]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15357; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906081615.JAA15357@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:19:02 -0700 Subject: FW: Textile Treatment Keeps Microbes at Bay From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1199 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Textile Treatment Keeps Microbes at Bay Date: Tue, Jun 8, 1999, 6:51 AM STORY LEAD: Textile Treatment Keeps Microbes at Bay ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 8, 1999 Jan Suszkiw, (301) 504-1630, jsuszkiw@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- A textile treatment that has improved thermal adaptability, absorbency and other desirable properties in fabric may offer yet another benefit, scientists say. In lab tests, coating cotton, polyester and other fabrics with nontoxic polymers called polyethylene glycols (PEG) reduced by almost 100 percent the growth of several common fungi and bacteria. Most, like odor-causing Brevibacterium epidermidis bacteria, grow in socks and other clothing by forming biofibrils. The PEGs apparently mar the fibers' surface so that the biofibrils can't attach. The substances may also dehydrate the microbes, rupturing their cell membranes, according to Agricultural Research Service chemist Tyrone Vigo and University of Georgia professor Karen Leonas. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific agency. ARS' Vigo and colleagues originally developed the PEG treatments several years ago to improve comfort, wear and other properties of textiles like cotton. Commercial applications--from licensee Wisconsin Global Technologies Ltd.--include sportswear and apparel that retain or release body heat as needed. Another licensee, Bayshore Holding, Inc., uses the technology for health care products like underpads for incontinence. Last year, as part of a CRADA, the group decided to confirm and explain earlier observations that PEG treatments also impart antimicrobial properties, a trait clothing and textile manufacturers are keen to exploit, says Vigo, with ARS' Cotton Textile Chemistry Research Unit in New Orleans. The scientists found a nearly complete decrease in microbe and fungal growth after lab tests in which swaths of cotton-polyester bedsheets were inoculated with spores of Brevibacterium,Staphylococcus epideremidis bacteria, and Aspergillus fumigatus and Microsporum cookel fungi. Both fungi can cause allergies and asthma. Staph bacteria can cause skin, wound and other infections. In untreated fabrics, scientists observed minor reductions, most likely from additives briefly present after processing. A fifth pathogen, the yeast Candida albicans, was unaffected by the PEG-treated fabrics. Another benefit: scientists believe PEGs' antimicrobial action is more physical than chemical, so fabric-infecting germs should be less apt to develop resistance. ---------- Scientific contact: Tyrone Vigo, ARS Southern Regional Research Center, New Orleans, La., phone (504) 286-4487, fax (504) 286-4271, tvigo@commserver.srrc.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 14:14:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04819 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07343 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:39:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07339 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00DB3ACE@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:37:37 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 8 Jun 99 13:39:04 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 8 Jun 99 13:38:52 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:38:45 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Line Wrap In-reply-to: <199906051909.PAA23448@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <166846503A8@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1200 > Hi All > I am on Netscape. I've looked around and in View I found a Wrap Long > Lines so I have turned it on and guess I will see what it does. I > couldn't find any thing in preferences. Floyd > Thank you, Floyd! You gave me the idea to look for such a thing and found it under the heading "Reader." I will now wait for the next such post and see how it works. I never even thought of looking at the menu bar when I was in e-mail mode!! Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 14:16:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05000 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA01098 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:26:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA00943 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00DB3879@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:23:44 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 8 Jun 99 13:25:11 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 8 Jun 99 13:25:06 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:24:56 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: line wrapping In-reply-to: <199906042210.SAA18705@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <16649A61FAA@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1201 When I get posts with unwrapping lines, the best I have figured to do is widen the screen as wide as it will go and then scroll and scroll and hope that the writer ends before my scroll range does. That doesn't always happen, however, and copying and pasting the message as Steve Groff suggested has not worked for me -- it only copies what it "sees" which is what I see on the screen. For those who write me privately and are amenable to it, I ask them to put in their own hard returns, a la old fashioned type writers, and that works great. Of course, most people aren't so amenable. The computer people in my department at the university just say that it's either a problem on the other end or an irreconcileable incompatibility between the two systems. Hmm! Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 14:46:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05743 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA15830 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:52:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15794 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA49140 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:52:22 -0500 Message-ID: <375D580F.E4A0ACDD@missouri.edu> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:51:11 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson Organization: University of Missouri X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Line wrapping Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1202 Hi all, I use Netscape as both browser and message editor. In Netscape you can go to "Edit" on the toolbar, select "Preferences", then select "messages" on the Preferences Menu, then check the box marked "wrap incoming messages to window width". This has worked extremely well for me since someone on the list suggested it. Mary -- Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. Network Coordinator Food Circles Networking Project University of Missouri Outreach and Extension Department of Rural Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 Tele: 573-882-7463 Fax: 573-882-1473 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 15:04:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA06193 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA29898 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:19:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA29702 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00DB429C@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:17:48 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 8 Jun 99 14:19:16 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 8 Jun 99 14:19:14 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:19:12 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: GM story from the NY Times In-reply-to: <199906071613.MAA20181@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <16730AA5AD5@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1203 > The vilification of Monsanto is just one example of a > growing anti-American slant to the debate about food in > Europe. > > Indeed, food safety now seems to be one of the easiest > places for ugly nationalist emotions to hide. Europe's > Common Agricultural Policy is the single nastiest piece of > protectionism in the world; its American equivalent is not > much better. Politicians, whether they are Presidential > candidates in Iowa or prospective deputies in Normandy, > conspicuously avoid talk of reform. > > It is not inconceivable that in a decade's time people will > look back on the current rows about food as a turning point > for both globalization and what used to be called the > Western alliance. If so, that old saying -- "what is good > for G.M. is good for America" -- may have an ironic ring. > > John Micklethwait, the New York bureau chief of The > Economist, is the co-author of a forthcoming book on > globalization. Someone needs to alert Mr. Micklethwait that the anti-GM, anti-Monsonto stance is not just for Europeans who want to bash the US. There are plenty of us on this side of the ocean who are on *that* side of the argument. Journalists and politicians need to get a clue. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 16:18:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07918 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA27481 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:05:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA27401 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fesnet.nw.uoguelph.ca ([131.104.238.2] (may be forged)) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA07653; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FESNET/SpoolDir by fesnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.31); 8 Jun 99 13:28:00 GMT-5 Received: from SpoolDir by FESNET (Mercury 1.31); 8 Jun 99 13:27:45 GMT-5 From: "Ellen Wall" Organization: Environmental Science To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, rpoincelot@fair1.fairfield.edu, mj2patte@vortex.uwaterloo.ca, macdok@parl.gc.ca, fsdnews@mailserv.fao.org, rursoc-l@lsv.uky.edu, caldemo@parl.gc.ca, Clare Wasteneys , eyridoe@cadmin/nsac.ns.ca Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:27:44 EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Farming Systems Conference Notice and Registration X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <507D2D4D57@fesnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA27438 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1204 - Here is a notice regarding a Farming Systems Conference in October. Please distribute widely through your own networks and links. --------------------------------------------------------------------- PLEASE READ THIS NOTICE FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THE FOURTH BIENNIAL MEETING FOR THE NORTH AMERICAN CHAPTER OF THE INTERNATIONAL FARMING SYSTEMS ASSOCIATION (Formerly known as Association for Farming Systems Research and Extension) CONFERENCE TITLE: Sustaining Agriculture in the 21st Century: "Thinking Outside the Box" LOCATION: Guelph, Ontario, Canada DATE: October 20-23, 1999 WEBSITE: www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/ CONFERENCE OVERVIEW [More details on the Web Site): Wed, Oct. 20: registration; tours of farming systems and rural communities using "outside the box" thinking; reception Thurs. Oct. 21 : Plenary Address, Fred Buttel; concurrent sessions for presentations; banquet. Friday Oct. 22: Plenary Panel; concurrent sessions for presentations; informal discussion groups. Sat., Oct. 23: Workshops on the Ontario Environmental Farm Plan; post conference tours. REGISTRATION FORM: NOTE: Pending an application for SSHRC conference funding, it may be possible to waive registration fees (not banquest and tour) for Canadian graduate students. Check the web site after June 30/99 to discover the status of this opportunity. --------------------------------------------------------------------- COMPLETE AND RETURN THIS FORM TO: CONFERENCE SERVICES, UNIVERSITY OF GUELPH, GUELPH, ONTARIO, CANADA N1G 2W1 FAX: 1-519-837-8630 Name: Address: Organization: Telephone: Fax: Email: Which theme represents your main interests in the conference? Environment ---- Innovations --- Rural Communities---- Do you have any special dietary needs? Early Bird Discount applies if registration is received by August 15, 1999 Registration:(early bird)$CA105.00; (regular) $CA125.00 Banquet: $CA30.00 Tours: $CA50.00 (includes lunch) Total for all three: (early bird) $CA185.00; (regular) $CA205.00 Registration fee: Entitles registrant to attend all the sessions, the Wednesday evening reception, breaks on Thursday and Friday and one copy of the conference abstracts. Banquet: Thursday evening, includes dinner with wine at table and entertainment. Wednesday tour: Please see details of the tours on the web site ============================================================ PAYMENT INFORMATION: for Registration, Banquet and Wednesday tour only Payment (In Canadian Dollars) to follow in the mail _____ yes/no. Please note, if using the regular mail services allow at least 2 weeks for delivery of your payment to Guelph so that your cheques can arrive on time. OR Process my payment on the following credit card information (charges will be in $CA and credit card company will calculate the exchange rate): Visa: Master Card: AMEX: Card [Note: email is not a secure connection for credit card information so, if you prefer, print this form and send it by facsimile instead. Please use only one method of registration to avoid duplication] Number:____________________________________ Expiry Date ____________ Signature:____________________ Today's Date: ____________ ================================================================= HOTEL RESERVATIONS: Please contact the hotel of your choice directly. Release date for hotel rooms is September 20, 1999 reservations beyond this date can not be guaranteed at the rates below. 1. College Inn (Conference Hotel) 716 Gordon Street, Guelph, Ontario, N1G 1Y6 Phone: (519) 836-1240 Toll free 1800 563 9240 FAX: (519) 763 5225 Web site: www.atlific.com/guelph.html Rate: $CA89.00 + taxes 2. Holiday Inn (2 km distant) Scottsdale Dr., Guelph, ON Phone: (519) 836 0231 Toll Free: 1 800 holiday Rate: $CA109.00 + taxes 3.Days Inn (across the road from Conference) 785 Gordon St., Guelph, ON Phone: (519) 822 9112 Toll free: 1800 329 7466 Rate: $CA76.00 + taxes 4. Best Western (Emerald Inn-Downtown Guelph 5 km) Carden St., Guelph, ON Phone: 519 836 1331 Toll free 1 800 528 1234 Rate: $CA84.00+ taxes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ellen Wall Research Scientist Farming Systems Research Plant Agriculture University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 phone: 519 824 4120 ext 8480 fax: 519 763 8933 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 16:42:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08427 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA16449 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:35:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16379 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26884>; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:40:05 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: Andy Clark Message-Id: <99Jun8.144005cdt.26884@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:33:41 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: Organic food book- Mycotoxins in stored grain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1205 I'll read the book before I nitpick, but one factoid I must take isue with: > ...Wheat, for example, when stored > for long periods in grain elevators, can develop fungi and moulds that, in > turn, produce poisons called mycotoxins. They can get into our bodies > when we eat bread and pasta... Since they were talking about Canada, I'd like to correct a couple of points. 95% of the wheat grown in Canada and all of the wheat used for making bread & pasta in Canada is grown out here in the west. When neccesary, wheat is stored in the west in farmers bins under the cool, dry conditions prevalent here. Farmers aerate the grain to prevent mould growth & other degrading factors that would lower the worth of their product. Thats part of farm management & its one the principal winter activities on the farm during the 4 months when the temp is below -20' (not ideal conditions for mould growth!). Wheat is never stored in grain elevators (too expensive). The elevator is used only to collect enough semi-trailer loads (40t) of grain to ship 50 or 100 car unit trains (4000-8000t) to terminals at export position. The terminals collect enough tonnage to load ocean-going freighters (15,000t & up). All of this is done in a "just in time" fashion. The companies that own these facilities make their money on throughput & 'turn' the facilities 6 or 7 times in a crop year. It may be theoretically possible to culture mycotoxins in stored grain somewhere, but the conditions prevalent in Canada militate pretty strongly against it... To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 16:43:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08469 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA27400 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:54:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from arl-img-11.compuserve.com (arl-img-11.compuserve.com [149.174.217.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA27391 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.18) id PAA03902 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:53:36 -0400 From: "Joan R. Snyder" Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1073 To: "INTERNET:sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Message-ID: <199906081553_MC2-78AA-7502@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA27393 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1206 Re: Garlic Does anyone have any information on the impact of gibberellins and auxines as applied to garlic ? This information is being requested by an agricultural group in the Patagonian region of Argentina. The individual's name and direct e-mail address are as follows: I will forward anything on the list. Thank you. J Snyder Enrique Frers; fliaffm@interar.com.ar To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 16:45:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA08510 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19274 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:43:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA19247 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990608194556.23351.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:45:56 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:45:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: fwd on dioxin in europe To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1207 Forwarded with permission. This gives a bit more information on the dioxin scandal in Europe. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Harris and Denise O'Brien Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:40 AM Subject: Fw: Press release : The scandal of dioxin inpoultry is the scandal of industrial breeding... >////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////> >CPE > >Coordination Paysanne Europenne > >European Farmers Coordination > >Coordinadora Campesina Europea > >Rue Stvin 115 - 1000 Bruxelles - B > >tel: (32) 2 230 07 76 fax: (32) 2 230 03 48> >E-mail: cpe@agoranet.be> >/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////> > >PRESS RELEASE 3rd June 1999> The scandal of dioxin in poultry is the scandal of industrial breeding and of the race for the lowest possible production costs without any regardf or the population's health. After the BSE scandal, the issue of resistance to antibiotics and now the dioxin crisis, what are the Governments and the European Commission waiting for to tackle the scandal of industrial breeding? Nothing has been done either in the present CAP or in Agenda 2000 to curb the industrialisation of stockbreeding, which CPE has been denouncing for many years. Pork and poultry production are the most industrialised, which causes a frantic race for lowering production costs with a structural over production that the European Union refuses to bring under control, very low agricultural prices that only the biggest breeding farmssupported by the agroindustrial and banking sector can survive. The European Union speaks a lot about food safety,sustainableagriculture, the environment, but it is doing just the opposite and prefers to protect the interests of the agroindustrial and banking sector. How many scandals will we have to suffer for theconsumers to understand that the very low-priced farm produce stemming from theindustrialisation of production generates costs in the fields of publichealth, the environment,unemployment, which they support as tax-payers? Industrial stockbreeding generates outrageous costs forsociety: - it leads to the disappearance of most stockbreeders,with a high economic and social cost in rural areas, - it is concentrated in a few maritime regions because it developed on the basis of imports of animal feedstuffs from all over theplanet at the lowest possible price. These regions (land, rivers, groundwater, coastal waters) are overflowing with manure or droppings which causemajor environmental and water quality problems. - it uses antibiotics in feedstuffs, tranquillisers forstressed animals, growth promoters, hormones, regardless of human and animal health, - it uses unsafe agricultural or industrial waste tofeed the animals(e.g. citrus fruit waste with a too high pesticide content,animal fat from carcass disposal, etc.), - it furthers epidemics, such as the swine fever thathave already cost a lot to European taxpayers, - it doesn't respect the animals, - it produces standardised and tasteless meat. PE urges the European Union to make sure that industrial stockbreeding is gradually put an end to and to favour sustainableproduction ways linked to the soil (stockbreeding not linked to the soil is nolonger agriculture); the following measures are indispensable: - a ban on all antibiotics, growth promoters andgenetically modified organisms in animal feedstuffs, - the strict implementation of the nitrates directive, - a limitation of the size of breeding farms, - a ban on breeding practices that don't respect theanimals, - a ban on the building of any new industrial breeding factory (to be defined together with the link to the land, the size,the employment), - a ban on animal flour or fat in animal feedstuffs, - the modification of the agricultural curricula so asto foster breeding practices linked to the soil among young people. The stockbreeders affected by the dioxin crisis mustreceive financial compensation from the animal feedstuffs companies that are responsible for the scandal and must be sued. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 17:02:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA08893 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA10808 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:20:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA10798 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu by chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0:JLF-19970113) id QAA20255; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:15:25 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990608061725.006b54c0@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 06:17:25 -0400 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Lozier Subject: Re: GM story from the NY Times In-Reply-To: <16730AA5AD5@agecon.uga.edu> References: <199906071613.MAA20181@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1208 I agree with Anita that journalists and politicians should get a clue. However, at times the rhetoric gets a little steamy, and the vilification does no particular credit to the arguments. Against GMO and on many topics. Granted, there is a lot of frustration and provocation but any case will stand better in the long run if it is on solid ground and sober rhetoric. At 02:19 PM 6/8/99 EST5EDT, Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > >> The vilification of Monsanto is just one example of a >> growing anti-American slant to the debate about food in >> Europe. >> >> Indeed, food safety now seems to be one of the easiest >> places for ugly nationalist emotions to hide. Europe's >> Common Agricultural Policy is the single nastiest piece of >> protectionism in the world; its American equivalent is not >> much better. Politicians, whether they are Presidential >> candidates in Iowa or prospective deputies in Normandy, >> conspicuously avoid talk of reform. >> >> It is not inconceivable that in a decade's time people will >> look back on the current rows about food as a turning point >> for both globalization and what used to be called the >> Western alliance. If so, that old saying -- "what is good >> for G.M. is good for America" -- may have an ironic ring. >> >> John Micklethwait, the New York bureau chief of The >> Economist, is the co-author of a forthcoming book on >> globalization. > >Someone needs to alert Mr. Micklethwait that the anti-GM, >anti-Monsonto stance is not just for Europeans who want to bash the >US. There are plenty of us on this side of the ocean who are on >*that* side of the argument. Journalists and politicians need to get >a clue. Anita > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 17:51:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA09962 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01096 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:55:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA01053 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id PAA28933; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:55:39 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma028542; Tue, 8 Jun 99 15:55:22 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:55:21 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD91@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: FW: Organic food book- Mycotoxins in stored grain Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:55:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1209 Pat, Organic cookbook said: > > ...Wheat, for example, when stored for long periods in > > grain elevators, can develop fungi and moulds that, in > > turn, produce poisons called mycotoxins. You wrote: > It may be theoretically possible to culture mycotoxins in > stored grain somewhere, but the conditions > prevalent in Canada militate pretty strongly against it... I think you are right. It is pretty easy to prevent storage fungi in modern grain handling. But this thread is deceptive in it's focus on storage molds, because the big mycotoxin problem is from field fungi. Under humid conditions, Fusarium graminearum is endemic in wheat, producing a variety of toxins. I believe the food industry has some pretty stringent controls on this, and the problem is more frequent in monogastric feeding. Corn from the Southeast is sometimes infected with Aspergillus flavus via the silk, and this can give rise to dangerous levels of aflatoxin prior to harvest. More subtle is infection (nearly universal) of corn ears with Fusarium moniliforme (and related sp). Sometimes, toxic levels of nasty chemicals are produced. There are varieties of corn that resist infection and/or toxin production, and this is currently a major breeding goal. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 18:24:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA10670 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA28170 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:39:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA28062 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from computer (ip60.ts7.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.85.60]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with ESMTP id RAA10396 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906082139.RAA10396@cyberus.ca> From: "Gord Hawkes" To: Subject: New Born chicks Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 17:40:36 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1210 Hi all. Being rather new to this farming thing, and on top of that we're orchardists (not real farmers by some estimations), one of our chickens has a newly hatched brood (?) of chicks. Our chickens are all free range and have been left out at night as our barns are being leveled. We're concerned about predators but at the same time concerned about introducing mama and her chicks to a more captive surrounding. Should we attempt to cage them at night and let them free range during the day? Should we provide supplemental feed, and if so in what form? Cuz this is our first experience in this type of thing your most detailed comments would be appreciated. Gord Hawkes logcabinorchard@cyberus.ca Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, Ontario Canada K0A 2W0 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 19:13:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA11972 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23433 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:24:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23376 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:24:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (14388) by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7JGHa11719 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5f4ec04b.248ef1c3@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:22:59 EDT Subject: Second Call: EPA/USDA Workshop on Bt Crop Resistance Management To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA23387 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1211 Sign up and go. It will probably be too wet to do anything else anyway. Coordinate lodging begining here but thereafter off list. http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/btworkshop618.htm Notice of Public Meeting EPA/USDA Workshop on Bt Crop Resistance Management DATE: The meeting will be held on Friday June 18, 1999 from 8:00 am to 5:30 p.m. ADDRESS: The meeting will be held at Holiday Inn, Chicago-OHare International Airport 5440 River Road, Rosemont, IL, Telephone: (847) 671-6350 MEETING DESCRIPTION: On Friday, June 18, 1999, the EPA and USDA will conduct a one-day joint public workshop on managing the emergence of insect populations that are resistant to Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) plant-pesticides. The workshop will provide the two Agencies with information to help develop and implement plans related to managing insect resistance to Bt - focusing on Bt corn. EPA believes that managing insect resistance to Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) toxins is important because of the threat resistance poses to the high benefits and low risk of using Bt toxins in transgenic crops and in microbial spray formulations. With use of Bt-crops increasing, EPA recognizes the value of ensuring that Bt crops and microbial Bts remain effective against target pests for as long as possible. To this end, EPA has worked with stakeholders (e.g., industry, public sector research and extension, growers, user groups, public interest groups, and government agencies) to address resistance management for Bt crops. Four preselected panels will explore: Refuge Design and Deployment; Grower Education; Monitoring and Remedial Action; and Compliance. The workshop will begin with introductory comments from representatives of EPA and USDA. Panelists will be selected beforehand from the various stakeholder groups: industry, academia, USDA, conventional and organic growers, public interest groups, and the National Corn Growers Association. Each panels presentation will be followed by approximately 30-60 minutes of open discussion. Proceedings will be sent to all attendees. The agenda for the workshop, draft panel representatives, questions for panelists, and an EPA/USDA Position Paper on Bt resistance management are available A notice of the meeting was published in the Federal Register on May 24, 1999. A second meeting that will focus on Bt Cotton will be held August 26, 1999 in Memphis TN. Additional information about that meeting will be posted when available MEETING REGISTRATION: All persons planning on attending the workshop are strongly encouraged to preregister. This information is needed to ensure adequate space for attendees. There is no registration fee. To register online click here. As an alternative, you may provide the registration information [Name(s); Organization; Mailing Address; Phone; Fax; and E-mail address] by mail, e-mail or fax: Mail: Bt Crop Resistance Meeting Registration PO Box 987 DeKalb, IL 60115 FAX: (815) 753-9348 E-mail: tbullock@niu.edu ROOM RESERVATIONS: A block of rooms has been reserved at a special rate. Please make your reservation early to ensure you get a room at that rate. Make your reservation by calling: Holiday Inn OHare International, 5440 North River Road, Rosemont, IL 60018-5232; Phone: 847- 671-6350, Fax: 847- 671-5406; Room Reservations: 1-888-OHARE-HI (1-888-642-7344). The hotel is located a mile and a half east of OHare International Airport, adjacent to the Rosemont Convention Center and Rosemont Theatre. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, OR TO PROVIDE COMMENTS, CONTACT: Mail: Dr. Sharlene R. Matten Biopesticides and Pollution Prevention Division (7511-C) Office of Pesticide Programs US Environmental Protection Agency 401 M St. SW. Washington DC 20460 Phone: (703) 605-0514 FAX: (703) 308-7026 E-mail: matten.sharlene@epa.gov www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/btworkshop618.htm updated May 24, 1999 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 8 23:29:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA15383 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA26835 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:41:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA26821 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id WAA24191; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <375DD509.F3E8F9B7@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 22:44:25 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: Organic food book- Mycotoxins in stored grain References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FD91@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1212 I was gonna say what you did Dale. Most problems begin in the field and are not mitigated in storage (but often aren't exacerbated either). Also, don't forget ergot. It's making a comeback in many third world countries (as are many other mycotoxin related illnesses). . .Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 9 10:24:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA22512 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20000 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:37:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19986 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA22436 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990609094356.007df100@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:43:56 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: Fw: Press release : The scandal of dioxin inpoultry is the scandal of industrial breeding... In-Reply-To: <199906082056.QAA01825@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1213 Maybe I'm dense (lord knows I've been told so!) but that article did not clear up the question which I have not been able to find an answer to: Where did the dioxin come from and how did it get to be such a pervasive problem?? Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 9 11:06:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23723 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:25:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA17804 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:21:22 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:20:22 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, earthspn@crocker.com Subject: Re: Fw: Press release : The scandal of dioxin inpoultry is thescandal of industrial breeding... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1214 I wondered the same thing. Some posts have suggested the dioxin problem is a result of greed -- a mad scramble for the lowest bottom line. I would have suspected carelessness or stupidity, except for the line about possible fraud charges... Maybe it will be like Times Beach or the Indian Oil fiasco -- where someone was selling a waste product into an inappropriate use. BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 09:33:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA15417 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA17514 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:43:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp (chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp [133.50.192.99]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA17410 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friedepc.agr.hokudai.ac.jp (friedepc.agr.hokudai.ac.jp [133.50.193.22]) by chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp (8.8.7+2.7Wbeta7/3.6W) with SMTP id VAA10473; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:58:03 +0900 Message-ID: <37609462.C37@chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:45:22 -0700 From: Friedemann Greulich Reply-To: friede@chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp Organization: Hokudai X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: AGRISYNERGY@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: looking for intercropping info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1215 Dear Agrisynergists and Sanet-people, does anybody know of some good website with information about which garden plants like or dislike each other? Just today I got a chance to use a few fallow square meters and I want to do it most effectively. The season is short here in Hokkaido, the cool northern island of Japan. Therefore I have to act quickly if I want to harvest anything at all. I think about some red beets, beans, soybeans, salads, spinach, carrots, potatos and some herbs. Any kind of comment very welcome! Friedemann -- Dr. Friedemann Greulich, Hokkaido Univ., Fac. of Agriculture Japan, 060-8589 Sapporo, Kita-ku, Kita 9 Nishi 9 Tel.: (+81-11) 706-3349, Fax: ...-2505, priv. Tel./Fax: 614 3099 e-mail: friede@chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp homepage: http://www.agr.hokudai.ac.jp/bioorg/friede/friede.htm privat: http://www.voicenet.co.jp/~friede/fg.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 09:34:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA15425 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:34:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA24418 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:56:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA24352 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990610130031.8982.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:00:31 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:00:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: dioxin, poultry?, Belgium To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1216 Good Morning Saneteers. I'm as confused as anyone about what's going on w/r/t dioxin, Belgium, and poultry. I will pass on anything that comes through my purview. Will everyone else do the same? Maybe we can piece together what is going on. I think Misha is off line for June so we can't depend on her skills. Thanks in advance. kate _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 09:58:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16040 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00641 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:04:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA00621 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990610130625.3538.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:06:25 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 06:06:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: fwd, dioxin and EU To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1217 After a quick search, I found this from CNN America, issued June 4. It adds a few more pieces to the overall picture. kate BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union's chicken and pork producers were left reeling Friday by a U.S. suspension of all imports in the widening scare over Belgian farm products poisoned by the highly toxic chemical dioxin. Europe's worst food crisis since the mad cow disease alert deepened after the EU said it would order the destruction of all chicken, egg, pork and cattle products from around 1,000 Belgian farms that used tainted animal feed. Banner headlines in Belgian newspapers on Friday highlighted the consumer panic. "Total havoc," Het Laatste Nieuws said. "A country in need...This is a human and economic catastrophe. Our reputation abroad is ruined, the agri-industry threatened, thousands of jobs in danger, companies and traders in difficulty." "What are you eating today?" asked Het Nieuwsblad on its front page showing an empty plate, knife and fork. The U.S. Agriculture Department announced the temporary ban on Thursday and said it would review all imports of pork and poultry products from the EU since January to see if any additional action was needed. U.S. inspection officials described the U.S. action as a "hold," rather than an outright ban. It will apply to all products containing pork and poultry in addition to just the meats, the department said. Only a small quantity of European poultry products, mostly pate, are shipped to U.S. buyers. About $250 million worth of European pork was imported last year out of total U.S. imports of $701 million. On Friday South Korea also banned farm product imports from Belgium. Belgium has banned the transport of poultry, pigs and cattle while it checks which livestock farms received the tainted feed. The crisis broke a week ago when it emerged that chickens on about 400 Belgian farms had been given feed contaminated with highly toxic dioxin, rocking Prime Minister's Jean Luc Dehaene's government two weeks before an election and prompting the resignation of Belgium's farm and health ministers. Major Belgian supermarkets had already swept their shelves clear of chicken and egg products on Thursday -- including fresh pasta, mayonnaise and cakes -- when it became clear that the problem extended to both pork and beef, and possibly even milk. Public confidence in food safety, already hit by recent scares over "mad cow" disease, hormones in beef, swine fever and antibiotics in pork, took a further pounding with Belgium's admission that the tainted feed had been sold more widely than originally thought and even exported. The EU's latest plan, which will be rubber stamped on Friday, applies to some 500 pig farms and around 70 cattle farms identified by the Belgian authorities, in addition to more than 400 poultry units already targeted. All food made from meat and eggs originating on these farms since January 15 will have to be traced, removed from sale and destroyed. An EU official would not rule out that even dairy products could be affected. The managers of the Verkest fats and oils company at the center of the storm have been charged with labeling and accounting fraud. The firm is believed to have supplied animal feed makers with a tainted product, although exactly how the dioxin contamination occurred is still under investigation. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 11:31:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18524 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07181 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:53:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s-ext.ufrrj.br (server1.ufrrj.br [200.11.1.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07166 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:53:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by s-ext.ufrrj.br (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA40508 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:53:32 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from lena@ufrrj.br) Received: from dynamic.ufrrj.br(200.11.5.50), claiming to be "ufrrj.br" via SMTP by s-ext.ufrrj.br, id smtpdx40506; Thu Jun 10 11:53:26 1999 Message-ID: <3459EF20.E646BE84@ufrrj.br> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 12:45:52 -0200 From: Lena Miller X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sanet list Subject: tomato information for the tropics Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1218 Dear list members, I am new to the list and look forward to the upcoming discussions. Currently, I am pursuing a masters program in Rio, Brazil. Here we have innumerable pests and diseases which greatly limit the production of organic tomatoes. The amount of pesticides used is incredible. I am looking for bibliografic information dealing with the organic production of tomatoes (intercopping or alley cropping with corn and also rotations with oats and legumes) and control of pests and disease. If anyone has any resource leads (internet or written material), it would be much appreciated. Thanks for your help. Lena To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 11:34:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18583 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA03207 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:45:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA03202 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.220] (br-ppp14.hevanet.com [198.5.254.220]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10119; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906101445.HAA10119@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 07:47:28 -0700 Subject: FW: New Liquid Epoxies Created from Cane Sugar From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1219 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Liquid Epoxies Created from Cane Sugar Date: Thu, Jun 10, 1999, 6:52 AM NEWS RELEASE: New Liquid Epoxies Created from Cane Sugar ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Jan Suszkiw, (301) 504-1630, jsuszkiw@asrr.arsusda.gov June 10, 1999 ----------- WASHINGTON, June 10--Sugar (sucrose) extracted from sugarcane juice is the main ingredient in new liquid epoxies that can bind wood, metal, glass, concrete and other materials, U.S. Department of Agriculture scientists and collaborators report. The advance may open a new industrial outlet for the sweetener in the form of base coats, primers or adhesives for composite materials like particle boarding or boat hulls. "It's an example of science finding a surprising new use for a common, everyday agricultural commodity," said Floyd P. Horn, administrator for the Agricultural Research Service, the USDA agency carrying out the project. More than three million tons of American cane sugar is produced annually, but less than 2 percent is used for non-food purposes, such as fermentation. As a food product, cane sugar has to compete with artificial and low-calorie sweeteners. What sucrose offers that the other sweeteners do not is an abundant, chemically pure source of raw material for creating epoxies that can bind with such diverse materials as wood or plastic, says lead scientist and chemist Navzer D. Sachinvala, at the ARS' Southern Regional Research Center in New Orleans. "Once these epoxies set, they become clear glassy or rubbery materials, depending on the type used," Sachinvala says. It's too soon to say how the new epoxies will fare in a market dominated by petroleum- based products. But Sachinvala cites a few selling points, notably the sucrose epoxies' lack of ingredients like Bisphenal-A, a component of petroleum-based products. Controversy surrounds the chemical because of its alleged role in disrupting the reproductive system of mice and possibly humans. Other sucrose epoxy benefits include an ability to cure or harden in conditions from below room temperature to 150 degrees Celsius. Lab tests indicate the epoxies are also capable of remaining stable under direct exposure to sunlight and saltwater, Sachinvala reports. Results from studies published in the Journal of Polymer Science also indicate bonding strengths comparable to those of the petroleum product diglycidyl ether of Bisphenal-A, or DGEBA. One of the sucrose epoxies tested, called a crotyl monomer, outperformed the DGEBA product by 30 percent. Sachinvala began exploring cane sugar's industrial potential in 1988, first as a Case Western Reserve University graduate student, and later as a scientist at Hawaii's Agricultural Research Center (HARC) in Oahu. In 1996, he joined ARS' New Orleans center. There, along with HARC scientists Othman Hamed and David Winsor, Sachinvala perfected an epoxidation process that employs reagents like oxygenated vinegar to change sucrose's molecular structure and chemical properties. Negotiations with an industrial partner are underway to produce large amounts of the sucrose epoxies so commercial criteria like price and performance can be determined and compared to existing materials. A more detailed article appears in the June issue of Agricultural Research, ARS' monthly publication and on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jun99/epox0699.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Navzer D. Sachinvala, ARS Southern Regional Research Center, New Orleans, La., phone (504) 286-4324, fax (504) 286-4271, nozar@commserver.srrc.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 12:12:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19564 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA03641 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:32:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from borg.cc.vt.edu (borg.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.242]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA03629 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:32:26 -0400 (EDT) From: karenm@vt.edu Received: by borg.cc.vt.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2120.0) id ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:32:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:32:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2120.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA03630 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1220 Dear Sanetters, The following was forwarded to me. Perhaps some of you will have some responses for George. It's scary to think that someone would view the loss of small farms and the subsequent impact on communities the way described. k. -----Original Message----- From: George Morse [mailto:gmorse@dept.agecon.umn.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 1999 9:52 AM To: cenet@ag.ohio-state.edu Subject: Heresy -Agr Crisis CENET is the listserv of the Community Economics Network. ######################################################### To: Ceneters From: George Morse Re: Help Needed to Debunk Heresy on Agr Crisis Impacts A "friend" of mine - no, make that acquaintance but not in this department or college- has hypothesized that the "agr crisis" and the failure of some small farms probably is good for small towns. While she recognizes that the loss of a farm by a fourth generation owner is personally devastating, she argues that it is good for rural communities. Her heretical reasoning runs as follows: 1) When a small farm fails, the land will remain in agriculture (unless pulled out by urbanization). She assumes that the land will be bought by a larger farmer. So the only negative impacts on the community come if larger farms buy fewer inputs locally and spend less on consumption goods locally. (Call locally a 20 mile radius of the farm) 2) On the input size, farm size appears to be related negatively to the percent spent locally but unrelated to the total amount spent per acre locally (Chism and Levins, Minnesota Agr. Econ., 676-1-4, 1994). So there should be few or no negative intermediate spin-offs. 3) Consumer spending is shifting away from small towns toward trade centers by all types of consumers. The small farm families already spend little of their consumer dollar locally and much of what they do spend goes to mass-merchandisers who drain the profits from the locale. So the loss of small farmers has little negative consumer spending affect locally. While 1-3 only hold things constant, her heresy gets worse. 4) Especially in livestock, the loss of small farmers and replacement by large ones leads to enough greater efficiency that net income from the land increases (over long run). Further, she suggests that a little spin of the treadmill is good for encouraging the adoption of new farming practices. Higher net income (while temporary gains from the treadmill) leads to marginally more local spending and higher tax collections. 5) With the extremely tight labor markets, she argues that the labor released from small farms can be put to better use (at higher wages) outside farming. She argues that even before the farm crisis, 75% of the small farmers claimed their primary occupation is outside of farming. So what happens in the rural non-farm economy is equally as important to small farmers as what happens on the farm. Due to the tight labor market it is often hard for small businesses in rural areas to find good help. A little additional labor could provide greater stability and growth for a lot of non-farm businesses and thus benefit many other small farmers (who need to earn enough off the farm to keep their small farms alive.) So in the end, she concludes that the failure of a some small farms is good for rural areas!!! An extension educator has asked me to help "debunk this heresy." Not really being familiar with much of this literature but realizing that if it isn't heresy it ought to be, I'd appreciate any quick help you can provide. George W. Morse Department of Applied Economics University of Minnesota 1994 Buford Ave. St. Paul, MN 55108-6040 phone:612/625-9769 fax:612/625-2729 email:gmorse@dept.agecon.umn.edu ######################################################### TO SEND MESSAGE: send e-mail to cenet@ag.ohio-state.edu or cenet@agvax2.ag.ohio-state.edu (either one). TO REPLY TO MESSAGE: send e-mail to message address. Using your "reply" button sends reply to original sender only. To unsubscribe: send e-mail to < cenet-off@ag.ohio-state.edu> Administrative queries: e-mail to Karen Mundy Communications Coordinator Rural Economic Analysis Program Department of Agricultural and Applied Economics (0401) Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-9443 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 13:41:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21879 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA24340 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:53:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA24331 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:53:12 -0500 Message-ID: <199906101150280660.00A1EE9E@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <3459EF20.E646BE84@ufrrj.br> References: <3459EF20.E646BE84@ufrrj.br> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:50:28 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Lena Miller" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: tomato information for the tropics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA24333 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1221 I suggest we start by ennumerating the "pests and diseases" that will have to be dealt with. "Innumerable" doesn't give much to go on. It would also be appropriate to know something about the growing conditions - rainfall, tempreratures, location, altitude etc. Douglas M. Hinds, Director Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. (Center for Community and Rural Development, Non-profit Association) Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 Mexico U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) Tel. & Fax: 523 412-6308 (direct - Cd. Guzman, Jalisco) Tel. & Fax: 528 922-2424 (direct - Reynosa, Tamaulipas) No Tel. or Fax yet in the Cuenca de Papaloapan (Oaxaca & Veracruz) e-mail: cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx, dmhinds@acnet.net *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 31/10/97 at 12:45 PM Lena Miller wrote: >Dear list members, >I am new to the list and look forward to the upcoming discussions. >Currently, I am pursuing a masters program in Rio, Brazil. Here we have >innumerable pests and diseases which greatly limit the production of >organic tomatoes. The amount of pesticides used is incredible. I am >looking for bibliografic information dealing with the organic production >of tomatoes (intercopping or alley cropping with corn and also rotations >with oats and legumes) and control of pests and disease. If anyone has >any resource leads (internet or written material), it would be much >appreciated. Thanks for your help. > >Lena > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 14:33:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23256 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24442 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:40:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from MailHost.StVincent.Edu (IS.StVincent.Edu [199.234.124.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24426 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from admin.stvincent.edu (dnelson@stvincent.edu) by MailHost.StVincent.Edu (8.9.1a/SATSYS) with ESMTP id NAA10686 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stvincent.edu (Host-199-234-126-58.StVincent.Edu [199.234.126.58]) by admin.stvincent.edu with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id NAA27434 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <375FF7F9.8CE52448@stvincent.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:38:01 -0400 From: Dean Nelson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re:fewer small farms is good References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1222 Most of what follows is satirical. If you want to jump straight to serious comment, read the last paragraph. George Morse writes: >A "friend" of mine - no, make that acquaintance but not in this >department or college- has hypothesized that the "agr crisis" and the >failure of some small farms probably is good for small towns. The "education crisis" and the failure of some small economics departments is probably good for education. >While >she recognizes that the loss of a farm by a fourth generation owner is >personally devastating, she argues that it is good for rural >communities. Her heretical reasoning runs as follows: While we recognize that the loss of a job by dedicated educators is personally devastating, we argue that it is good for education. > 1) When a small farm fails, the land will remain in agriculture > (unless pulled out by urbanization). She assumes that the land will > be bought by a larger farmer. So the only negative impacts on the > community come if larger farms buy fewer inputs locally and spend less > on consumption goods locally. (Call locally a 20 mile radius of the > farm) When a small economics department fails, the students remain in college. They will simply choose to go to a larger college or university. The only negative impact on the educational community is if students going to large colleges tend to take fewer courses. > 2) On the input size, farm size appears to be related negatively to > the percent spent locally but unrelated to the total amount spent per > acre locally (Chism and Levins, Minnesota Agr. Econ., 676-1-4, 1994). > So there should be few or no negative intermediate spin-offs. Students going to large colleges don't tend to take fewer courses. > 3) Consumer spending is shifting away from small towns toward trade > centers by all types of consumers. The small farm families already > spend little of their consumer dollar locally and much of what they do > spend goes to mass-merchandisers who drain the profits from the > locale. So the loss of small farmers has little negative consumer > spending affect locally. Student enrollment is shifting away from small colleges toward diploma mills, so the loss of economics departments won't be noticed. > 4) Especially in livestock, the loss of small farmers and replacement > by large ones leads to enough greater efficiency that net income from > the land increases (over long run). Further, she suggests that a > little spin of the treadmill is good for encouraging the adoption of > new farming practices. Higher net income (while temporary gains > from the treadmill) leads to marginally more local spending and > higher tax collections. Especially for agricultural economic students, the loss of small departmens and replacement of large ones leads to enough greater efficiency that profit per student increases. Besides, students who get less personal attention will tend to work harder to get recognition. > 5) With the extremely tight labor markets, she argues that the labor > released from small farms can be put to better use (at higher wages) > outside farming. She argues that even before the farm crisis, 75% of > the small farmers claimed their primary occupation is outside of > farming. So what happens in the rural non-farm economy is equally as > important to small farmers as what happens on the farm. Due to the > tight labor market it is often hard for small businesses in rural > areas to find good help. A little additional labor could provide > greater stability and growth for a lot of non-farm businesses and thus > benefit many other small farmers (who need to earn enough off the > farm to keep their small farms alive.) With extremely tight labor markets, students released from defunct economics departments can put their efforts to better use. Most economics students worked part-time anyway, so what happened at work was equally important to what happened at school. Getting a job will increase the tax base on which larger colleges and universities depend, making the larger economics departments better funded for other students still in school. > So in the end, she concludes that the failure of a some small farms is > good for rural areas!!! So in the end, the elimination of your "friend"'s job would be good for education. I don't suppose my primary crticism will hold much water among economists, but here it is anyway. Whether something is a good or bad thing has very little to do with the economics of the thing. The one-dimensional analysis described is, to a large extent, beside the point. Weighing the marginal economic benefit she claims for rural communities over the cumualtive "personal devastation" of the small farmers is done without blinking. Those same people become "labor", simply a number of hours to be added to the pool. Their contribution to the community is reduced to "inputs" and "spending". Does she apply the same ethic to determine the quality and extent of care of her children? Dean Nelson, Ph.D. Laurel View Farm Ligonier, PA "I recommend this matter to your serious pondering, for it is certain that the prevalant fear of poverty among the educated classes is the worst moral disease from which our civilization suffers." William James (1902) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 10 17:09:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA27739 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA22162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:10:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postal.indy.net (postal.indy.net [199.3.65.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22137 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from indy3.indy.net (root@indy3.indy.net [199.3.65.14]) by postal.indy.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA25419 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:09:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ip209-183-94-153.ts.indy.net [209.183.94.153]) by indy3.indy.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA14608 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:11:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <375FD402.4719@indy.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:04:34 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: [Fwd: research question] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------69C557AF636" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1223 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------69C557AF636 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sanet, If any of you could help this student, I am sure it will be most appreciated. Thanks, -- Rich Molini OCIA- Indiana 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ --------------69C557AF636 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from larry.indy.net (larry.indy.net [199.3.65.253]) by postal.indy.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA20398 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:28:07 -0500 (EST) From: cmcarrig@iupui.edu Received: from coyote.iupui.edu (coyote.iupui.edu [134.68.220.82]) by larry.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16323 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:30:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from topaz.iupui.edu (cmcarrig@topaz.iupui.edu [134.68.220.72]) by coyote.iupui.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1/1.18IUPUIPO) with SMTP id KAA12881 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:28:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:28:04 -0500 (EST) To: richmo@indy.net Subject: research question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi everybody, I'm an anthropology student at Indiana University and I'm doing some research on differences in pesticide use/policy between the United States and developing nations. I'd like to get some information on both the ecological cost and the human impact of pesticide use on a global scale. If anyone knows of any current sources that would be helpful, please respond to: Cathie Carrigan cmcarrig@iupui.edu Thanks, Cathie --------------69C557AF636-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 05:53:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA09189 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA11782 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 04:54:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA11778 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 04:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.74]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 03:58:40 -0500 Message-ID: <375F504E.D85F2AB3@cillnet.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:42:38 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: [Fwd: fwd on dioxin in europe] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------44E1D625BE768F7DF73F47BC" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1224 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------44E1D625BE768F7DF73F47BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought Europe was clean of harmones and anti-biotics. Thats why they won't let our stuff in. Floyd --------------44E1D625BE768F7DF73F47BC Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu ([152.1.45.61]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:48:03 -0500 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19274 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:43:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA19247 for ; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990608194556.23351.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:45:56 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:45:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: fwd on dioxin in europe To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAB19274 Forwarded with permission. This gives a bit more information on the dioxin scandal in Europe. kate ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Harris and Denise O'Brien Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:40 AM Subject: Fw: Press release : The scandal of dioxin inpoultry is the scandal of industrial breeding... >////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////> >CPE > >Coordination Paysanne Europ=E9enne > >European Farmers Coordination > >Coordinadora Campesina Europea > >Rue St=E9vin 115 - 1000 Bruxelles - B > >tel: (32) 2 230 07 76 fax: (32) 2 230 03 48> >E-mail: cpe@agoranet.be> >/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////> > >PRESS RELEASE 3rd June 1999> The scandal of dioxin in poultry is the scandal of industrial breeding and of the race for the lowest possible production costs without any regardf or the population's health. After the BSE scandal, the issue of resistance to antibiotics and now the dioxin crisis, what are the Governments and the European Commission waiting for to tackle the scandal of industrial breeding? Nothing has been done either in the present CAP or in Agenda 2000 to curb the industrialisation of stockbreeding, which CPE has been denouncing for many years. Pork and poultry production are the most industrialised, which causes a frantic race for lowering production costs with a structural over production that the European Union refuses to bring under control, very low agricultural prices that only the biggest breeding farmssupported by the agroindustrial and banking sector can survive. The European Union speaks a lot about food safety,sustainableagriculture, the environment, but it is doing just the opposite and prefers to protect the interests of the agroindustrial and banking sector. How many scandals will we have to suffer for theconsumers to understand that the very low-priced farm produce stemming from theindustrialisation of production generates costs in the fields of publichealth, the environment,unemployment, which they support as tax-payers? Industrial stockbreeding generates outrageous costs forsociety: - it leads to the disappearance of most stockbreeders,with a high economic and social cost in rural areas, - it is concentrated in a few maritime regions because it developed on the basis of imports of animal feedstuffs from all over theplanet at the lowest possible price. These regions (land, rivers, groundwater, coastal waters) are overflowing with manure or droppings which causemajor environmental and water quality problems. - it uses antibiotics in feedstuffs, tranquillisers forstressed animals, growth promoters, hormones, regardless of human and animal health, - it uses unsafe agricultural or industrial waste tofeed the animals(e.g. citrus fruit waste with a too high pesticide content,animal fat from carcass disposal, etc.), - it furthers epidemics, such as the swine fever thathave already cost a lot to European taxpayers, - it doesn't respect the animals, - it produces standardised and tasteless meat. PE urges the European Union to make sure that industrial stockbreeding is gradually put an end to and to favour sustainableproduction ways linked to the soil (stockbreeding not linked to the soil is nolonger agriculture); the following measures are indispensable: - a ban on all antibiotics, growth promoters andgenetically modified organisms in animal feedstuffs, - the strict implementation of the nitrates directive, - a limitation of the size of breeding farms, - a ban on breeding practices that don't respect theanimals, - a ban on the building of any new industrial breeding factory (to be defined together with the link to the land, the size,the employment), - a ban on animal flour or fat in animal feedstuffs, - the modification of the agricultural curricula so asto foster breeding practices linked to the soil among young people. The stockbreeders affected by the dioxin crisis mustreceive financial compensation from the animal feedstuffs companies that are responsible for the scandal and must be sued. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the comman= d "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------44E1D625BE768F7DF73F47BC-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 11:09:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13993 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA28385 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:11:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s-ext.ufrrj.br (server1.ufrrj.br [200.11.1.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28169 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:11:25 -0400 (EDT) From: lena@ufrrj.br Received: (from uucp@localhost) by s-ext.ufrrj.br (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA45883 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:10:58 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from lena@ufrrj.br) Message-Id: <199906111410.LAA45883@s-ext.ufrrj.br> Received: from dynamic.ufrrj.br(200.11.4.62), claiming to be "lena.ufrrj.br" via SMTP by s-ext.ufrrj.br, id smtpdy45879; Fri Jun 11 11:10:50 1999 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:07:18 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: more info for the question of tomatoes In-reply-to: <199906101150280660.00A1EE9E@acnet.net> References: <3459EF20.E646BE84@ufrrj.br> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1225 Date sent: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:50:28 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Lena Miller" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: tomato information for the tropics Hi all, Sorry about the vagueness of my request. I didnt have the latin names in front of me (only the names in Portuguese). The most important disease for this area is "requeima" (phytophthora infestans). The principal pest is "broca pequena" (Neoleucinodes elegantalis), for which there is no control (including no registered toxic). The first expirament will look at both the effect of Alley cropping with corn, and a rotation crotalaria spp. (a legume ) - tomato - oat - tomato. A second expirament will look at the effect of two foliar applications on requiema: 1) is "Calda de Vicosa" - a solution of copper sulfate, magnesuim sulfate, zinc sulfate, boric acid, Cal, and water. 2) is sulfer calcium - solution of sulfer, hidrated Cal. These solutions are being used as alternatives to the toxic fungicides available. My question is: Are these really alternatives? I do not have the chemistry background or information available as to their toxicity. Thanks for the help. Lena > > I suggest we start by ennumerating the "pests and diseases" that will have to be dealt with. "Innumerable" doesn't give much to go on. It would also be appropriate to know something about the growing conditions - rainfall, tempreratures, location, altitude etc. > > Douglas M. Hinds, Director > Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C. > (Center for Community and Rural Development, Non-profit Association) > Cd. Guzman, Jalisco 49000 Mexico > U.S. Voice Mailbox: 1 630 300 0550 (e-mail linked) > U.S. Fax Mailbox: 1 630 300 0555 (e-mail linked) > Tel. & Fax: 523 412-6308 (direct - Cd. Guzman, Jalisco) > Tel. & Fax: 528 922-2424 (direct - Reynosa, Tamaulipas) > No Tel. or Fax yet in the Cuenca de Papaloapan (Oaxaca & Veracruz) > e-mail: cedecor@acnet.net, cedecor@ipnet.com.mx, dmhinds@acnet.net > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 31/10/97 at 12:45 PM Lena Miller wrote: > > >Dear list members, > >I am new to the list and look forward to the upcoming discussions. > >Currently, I am pursuing a masters program in Rio, Brazil. Here we have > >innumerable pests and diseases which greatly limit the production of > >organic tomatoes. The amount of pesticides used is incredible. I am > >looking for bibliografic information dealing with the organic production > >of tomatoes (intercopping or alley cropping with corn and also rotations > >with oats and legumes) and control of pests and disease. If anyone has > >any resource leads (internet or written material), it would be much > >appreciated. Thanks for your help. > > > >Lena > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 11:15:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14168 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04327 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:24:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04245 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:27:25 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: SAN Calendar of Events updated Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:27:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1226 SANet: We have recently added a number of events, field tours, conferences to the SAN Calendar of Events. You can view calendar events at http://www.sare.org/wreg/view_notice_adm.pl If you have events to submit, start at http://www.sare.org/wreg/notices_main_adm.pl and follow the trail to submit your events on the web. You can also start at our home page--which is surely bookmarked--and use the newly created shortcut to the calendar. http://www.sare.org If you have not submitted events before, it is simply a matter of filling out a form on the web. I usually cut and paste from a conference announcement. After you submit the form, someone--usually me--has to review the submission and OK the update to the calendar. Enjoy the summer tours and field days! Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 11:25:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA14379 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11034 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:36:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10914 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00700 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA23531; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37611FCA.E4CE2E6F@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:40:10 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Fw: Press release : The scandal of dioxin inpoultry is thescandal of industrial breeding... References: <3.0.6.32.19990609094356.007df100@crocker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1227 I "heard/read" that the dioxin was in contaminated feed Mark wrote: > Maybe I'm dense (lord knows I've been told so!) but that article did not > clear up the question which I have not been able to find an answer to: > Where did the dioxin come from and how did it get to be such a pervasive > problem?? > > Mark > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 12:05:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15601 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25927 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:05:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA25860 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:05:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4046 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 15:05:33 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-15.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.187) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 15:05:33 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990611104938.00949500@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:05:20 -0400 To: lena@ufrrj.br From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: more info for the question of tomatoes Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <199906111410.LAA45883@s-ext.ufrrj.br> References: <199906101150280660.00A1EE9E@acnet.net> <3459EF20.E646BE84@ufrrj.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA25873 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1228 Lena Miller seeks tomato info: >The most >important disease for this area is "requeima" (phytophthora >infestans). The principal pest is "broca pequena" (Neoleucinodes >elegantalis), for which there is no control (including no registered >toxic). P. infestans is known here as late blight. Less common than early blight (alternaria), but devastating when it occurs. I like the Portuguese name. It's definitely requiem for the tomatoes when late blight strikes. It's the same blight that caused the Irish potato famine. There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless of what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues incorporated immediately after last harvest). Can't help you with the pest. My insect references don't list Neoleucinodes elegantalis. From the Portuguese, it sounds like a borer (broca pequea translates to "little drill bit", I think). >A second expirament will look at the effect >of two foliar applications on requiema: 1) is "Calda de Vicosa" - a >solution of copper sulfate, magnesuim sulfate, zinc sulfate, boric >acid, Cal, and water. 2) is sulfer calcium - solution of sulfer, >hidrated Cal. These solutions are being used as alternatives to the >toxic fungicides available. My question is: Are these really >alternatives? I do not have the chemistry background or information >available as to their toxicity. The two foliar sprays that you mention would likely be accepted under organic certification regimens, but they are not harmless. Lime sulfur (sulfur and hydrated calcium) is highly corrosive and must be handled and applied with care. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 12:31:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16216 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09264 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:30:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dialup0.macomb.com (IDENT:root@dialup0.macomb.com [199.120.118.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09195 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from macomb.com ([208.34.39.242]) by dialup0.macomb.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26019; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:29:00 -0500 Message-ID: <37612BAB.8D2E8CCA@macomb.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:30:51 -0500 From: Kathy Jeffries Reply-To: jeffries@macomb.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Burghgrave , Danny Terry , Donna , gale m lewis , Gayla Havener , John Starnes , Julie Glenn , Karen Hudson , Martha Klems , "mmckendr@unlnotes.unl.edu" , Paula Clark , Robert_Northcutt , SANET , Steve Axley Subject: [Fwd: Bacteria Outwit Toughest Antibiotic] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------80F02810D0123FD226A789D8" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1229 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------80F02810D0123FD226A789D8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------80F02810D0123FD226A789D8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by dialup0.macomb.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA13683 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:39:30 -0500 From: DEUXMOOSE@aol.com Received: from DEUXMOOSE@aol.com (14459) by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id mUNKa14117 for Uggman@aol.com; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:34:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9bcbb051.24925c38@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:34:00 EDT Subject: Bacteria Outwit Toughest Antibiotic To: Uggman@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Bacteria Outwit Toughest Antibiotic 06/11/1999 By Carolyn Abraham Toronto Globe and Mail An international team of scientists reports that bacteria responsible for pneumonia, blood poisoning and meningitis have become tolerant to the antibiotic of last resort. Streptococcus pneumoniae, a germ common in the community and risky for children and the elderly, has genetically mutated into strains that no longer die when exposed to vancomycin, medicine's most powerful antibiotic. Researchers from the United States and Sweden have confirmed the development both in the lab and in cases involving three children and one adult, raising the specter of more chronic and fatal infections for ailments once thought to be curable. "The (bacteria) just sit there and wait, and as soon as you take the antibiotic away they start growing again," said Dr. Elaine Tuomanen, the head of infectious diseases at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, Tenn. The researchers, who published their findings in the Thursday issue of the science journal Nature, say the bacteria's tolerance of vancomycin is a precursor to strep pneumoniae becoming completely resistant, meaning no drug would be able to stop it from reproducing. "Emergence of vancomycin resistance in this community-acquired bacterium would be catastrophic," researchers said in the article. They found that 2 percent of 400 strains of strep pneumoniae collected from the United States, Spain and Sweden could tolerate vancomycin. Strep pneumoniae has quickly joined the ranks of bacteria that have learned to outwit the antibiotics that once killed them. Years of antibiotic over-prescription and misuse is threatening to reverse many of the medical advances of this century. The findings in Nature, however, are not entirely discouraging. In the course of studying the genetic mutations of strep pneumoniae, the researchers also pinpointed two genes that might ultimately serve as useful targets to kill the bacteria. These genes appear to be essential in determining whether the bacteria grew, fell dormant or died, and the scientists believe they may also be present in a whole range of the drug- resistant superbugs. "We're hoping that this would eventually help us to focus new antibiotics, so the bacteria will become suicidal," Tuomanen said. She's more optimistic that a test can be quickly developed to diagnose whether a patient is carrying a strep pneumoniae infection tolerant to vancomycin. Tuomanen said such a test has a crucial clinical application. For example, a boy under the age of 5 with meningitis at Le Bonheur Children's Hospital in Memphis was treated with the standard 10- day course of vancomycin and then removed from the drug. His infection, which at the time was not known to be the result of the superbug form of strep pneumoniae, returned, resulting in permanent hearing damage. "The (bacteria) just sit there and wait, and as soon as you take the antibiotic away they start growing again."Dr. Elaine Tuomanen, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. Scripps Howard News Service Oklahoman Online | Search | City/State | Community | US/World Business | Sports | Editorials | Entertainment | Living | Classifieds Search the archives of the Oklahoman Online for similar stories. You will not be charged to look for stories, only to retrieve one. All content copyrighted, 1999 The Oklahoma Publishing Co --------------80F02810D0123FD226A789D8-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 12:31:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16232 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA10828 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:32:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10741 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02948 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id LAA25558; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37612CA9.D7C03E33@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:35:06 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lena@ufrrj.br, Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: more info for the question of tomatoes References: <3459EF20.E646BE84@ufrrj.br> <199906111410.LAA45883@s-ext.ufrrj.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1230 I work with tomatoes in an organic production system. Phytophthora infestans is late blight. Bordeaux mixture (copper sulfate and hydrated calcium sulfate, in various concentrations) has been used successfully, and is organically certified in North Carolina by the Carolina Farm Stewardship Association. So the answer to your is it an alternative question is yes, but as a protectant only. Unfortunately, I've not heard of Neoleucinodes elegantalis. Further, it's not listed in the tomato disease compendium (APS Press), nor "Fungi on plants and plant products in the United States", Farr, et al. (this is pretty much the bible for plant pathologists in the US, also called "the big red book," by plant pathology student everywhere). What are the symptoms of the Neoleucinodes elegantalis disease? Is there another name for the fungus (older, or newer)? As I've said I work with different organic amendments (swine manure, composted cotton gin trash, and a rye/vetch green manure) and their effects on soil microbial and nematode communities, soil chemical and physical properties, southern blight control (caused by Sclerotium rolfsii), and (of course) tomato yield. If I can do anything for you, let me know. (Keep in mind that I'm a student writing several papers and a thesis so I can graduate in December, if all goes as planned. . ;-) Later. . .Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 12:32:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16246 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13852 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:38:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13816 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.171] (ke-ppp21.hevanet.com [198.5.254.171]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10620; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906111538.IAA10620@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:43:05 -0700 Subject: FW: Computer to Help Overcome Yield Constraints in the Tropics From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1231 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Computer to Help Overcome Yield Constraints in the Tropics Date: Fri, Jun 11, 1999, 7:52 AM STORY LEAD: Computer to Help Overcome Yield Constraints in the Tropics ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 11, 1999 Jim De Quattro, (301) 504-1626, jdequattro@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- How could computers help African farmers who still use oxen to plow their fields? A scientist with the Agricultural Research Service is part of an international team working on an answer. ARS is USDA's chief research agency. The scientists are developing and testing software that extension workers in the tropics would use to advise farmers. In the tropics, soil acidity, phosphorus deficiency and climate often limit crop yields. But with the right computerized "decision support system," a farm advisor could offer farmers alternatives consistent with their available tools and methods. The software plan is part of a multi-institutional 5-year program of the U.S. Agency for International Development to evaluate soil management and productivity in many countries. Intensive test sites include the Cinzana region of Mali in west Africa, along with sites in Costa Rica and the Philippines. Plant physiologist Dan Israel at ARS' Soybean and Nitrogen Fixation Unit in Raleigh, N.C., visited the Cinzana last year for a first-hand look at farming methods. There, oxen till the soil and manure is the main fertilizer source for millet, sorghum, cowpeas, peanuts, cassava and sesbania. In the U.S., Israel's research focuses on how soybean root nodules convert nitrogen from the air to a form plants can use. Cowpeas, Cinzana's main protein source, also fix nitrogen in this way. But phosphorus deficiency and soil acidity limit the nodules' efficiency at fixing nitrogen. The new software draws on years of US-AID funded research at North Carolina State University, Texas A&M, Cornell University and the University of Hawaii. The software has three components for making decisions on needs for lime, nitrogen or phosphorus. NCSU sociologist Frank Smith will evaluate the software's impact by surveying Tropical extension agents and farmers. An article about the project appears in the June issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine and on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jun99/west0699.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Daniel W. Israel, ARS Soybean and Nitrogen Fixation Research Unit, Raleigh, N.C., phone (919) 513-3031, fax (919) 515-2167, dan_israel@ncsu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 13:01:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16906 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA04056 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:16:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA03892 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990611161857.24572.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:18:57 PDT Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:18:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Biodavastation 3 and dioxin source rumor To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1232 > Good morning SANETEERS, > > Here's a report from Biodevastation 3 in Seattle that > some of you may enjoy. Sorry about the weird line > breaks, I fixed as many as my patience could stand. > > And the latest rumor on the source of the dioxin in > the animal feel in Europe is that used motor oil was > "recycled" into animal feed. > > kate > > >Adapted from a report by Craig Winters of The > Campaign to Label > >Genetically Engineered Foods in Seattle, > > http://www.thecampaign.org > > >It was an active time in Seattle, Washington theweek > of May 17th as representatives of groups supporting > andopposing genetic engineering met in separate > conferences. > >>The Biotechnology Industry Organization held > their annual convention, BIO>'99, with thousands in > attendance. In response, > nearly 200 activists from>around the world gathered to > hold Biodevastation 3. This conference was organized > by the Edmonds Institute and > co-sponsored by many other activist organizations, > including the Washington > Biotechnology Action Council. It was the third in a > series of international > conferences, which began in St.>Louis in July of 1998 > and continued in New Delhi > in March, 1999. > >>On Tuesday, May 18 at noon, nearly 150 activists met > outside the Washington State Convention and Trade > Center, where the BIO '99 conference was going on, to > hold an anti-genetic engineering demonstration. There > were many costumes and signs demanding that > genetically engineered foods be labeled, opposing > patents on life, etc. The group marched through the > streets of Seattle, and the march become a > mini-parade, with police closing off traffic on the > adjoining streets as we went. Then the demonstration > moved to Freeway Park, where a stage had been set up > immediately opposite the Convention Center. There > activists listened to speakers and music, and later > marched through the convention center>itself.> > >Those attending the BIO '99 event were shocked to see > the level of protest taking place. As Brian Tokar, > educator at Goddard College, author of Earth For Sale, > and keynote speaker at Biodevastation 3 stated, "The > biotechnology industry has been holding these > conferences for years and this is the first time they > have seen this level of protest and activism." The > Biodevastation 3 conference was held on Wednesday and > Thursday. It was an excellent educational event and > provided agreat opportunity to network with others. > Speakers included Dr. Michael Hansen of Consumers > Union, Ronnie Cummins of the Campaign for Food Safety, > Charles Margulis of Greenpeace, Edward Hammond of > RAFI, scientists Martha Crouch and Elaine Ingham, and > many, many others. There was a special, unannounced > appearance by TV journalist Jane Akre, who was fired > by Fox TV for her coverage of rBGH. A true diversity > of activism was represented at this conference, > >from Berkeley's Hexterminators to folks from EPA, > from those focused on labelling to those seeking a ban > on the technology. > > And, yes, the media did hear about our activities. An > article appeared on the FRONT PAGE of the Seattle > Post-Intelligencer newspaper on Thursday. This was > also the day that the story about monarch butterflies > being killed by the pollen from genetically engineered > corn hit papers all over the world. It was front page > news in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, > USA Today, and many other newspapers. > > Finally citizens of the United States are learning > about the potential devastation that genetically > engineered foods pose to personal and planetary > health. Europeans have been protestinggenetically > engineered foods for several years. The biotechnology > industry has been telling Europeans and others around > the world that American citizens have looked > >at the issues surrounding genetically engineered > foods and feel they are safe. The truth is that most > Americans don't even know their foods are genetically > engineered. There has been a virtual news blackout. > However, as activists organize in the United States > and major news media begins to report on genetically > engineered foods, the biotech industry will soon > realize that American consumers are also rejecting > these foods. > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 13:17:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA17327 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09543 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:29:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA09497 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA28320; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:29:08 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma026972; Fri, 11 Jun 99 11:28:04 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:28:03 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDA0@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'lena@ufrrj.br'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: more info for the question of tomatoes Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:28:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1233 Lena, > A second expirament will look at the effect of two foliar > applications on requiema: 1) is "Calda de Vicosa" - a solution > of copper sulfate, magnesuim sulfate, zinc sulfate, boric > acid, Cal, and water. 2) is sulfer calcium - solution of sulfer, > hidrated Cal. These solutions are being used as alternatives to the > toxic fungicides available. My question is: Are these really > alternatives? I do not have the chemistry background or information > available as to their toxicity. Salts of copper and zinc are far more toxic than most commercial fungicides and less effective. Boric acid and salts are toxic too, especially to plants. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 11 15:51:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21300 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA26186 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:50:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA26162 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00DE155B@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:42:13 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 11 Jun 99 14:43:41 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 11 Jun 99 14:43:32 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:43:28 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Brazilian tomato problems In-reply-to: <199906111534.LAA12403@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1AF9B1873C6@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1234 > There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a > major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless of > what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long > rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues > incorporated immediately after last harvest). > Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be considered. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 06:49:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA01519 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA18052 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:22:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA17805 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7305 invoked from network); 11 Jun 1999 23:21:41 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-15.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.187) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 1999 23:21:41 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990611183332.0094e880@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 19:21:30 -0400 To: sanet-mg@CES.NCSU.EDU From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems In-Reply-To: <1AF9B1873C6@agecon.uga.edu> References: <199906111534.LAA12403@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@CES.NCSU.EDU Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1235 Anita Graf, in response to a discussion of tomato problems in the tropics: >> >Often times "sustainable" amounts to >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. That's a fair comment in some respects, but it reminds me of a comment my brother once made. He's a wildlife biologist, and I asked him for advice on how to keep the deer from devouring the farm profits. "You can't blame the deer," he said. "They're just trying to help the ecosystem by eliminating the exotics." Thanks, bro. Why is it that the deer eat the radicchio and ignore the Russian thistle, which is no less an exotic? More seriously: Some part of the term "sustainability," it seems to me, has to do with the ability to supply a great diversity of foods from local or regional sources. We've figured out ways to grow--without a toxic arsenal, synthetic or organic--most of the vegetables and fruits that are suited to our climate. A few crops we gave up on, not because we couldn't grow them successfully but because we couldn't grow them profitably. Big difference there. While we Pennsylvanians don't have quite the problems that Brazilians must have with diseases and pests that flourish in heat and humidity, we sure have more trouble with those problems than farmers in semi-arid regions. ('Course, they have to have their irrigation water shipped in, which isn't all that sustainable, either.) I think Brazilians deserve locally grown tomatoes. I also think that human ingenuity, working with instead of against nature, will figure out a way to make that possible without toxic soup. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 06:52:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA01534 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11037 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:30:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10911 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08847 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:26:05 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "'sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: board Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:25:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1236 this would be an opportunity to nominate some leaders of the sustainable ag perspective to a major advisory board of usda cheers, craig NOTICE OF SOLICITATION FOR MEMBERSHIP TO THE NATIONAL AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH, EXTENSION, EDUCATION, AND ECONOMICS ADVISORY BOARD June 9, 1999 Federal Register: (Volume 64, Number 110) [Page 30960] >From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov] [DOCID:fr09jn99-34] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE Office of the Secretary AGENCY: Research, Education, and Economics, USDA. ACTION: Solicitation for membership. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: In accordance with the Federal Advisory Committee Act, 5 U.S.C. App., the United States Department of Agriculture announces solicitation for nominations to fill 10 vacancies on the National Agricultural Research, Extension, Education, and Economics Advisory Board. DATES: Deadline for Advisory Board member nominations is June 25, 1998. craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 06:56:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA01560 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA20149 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:13:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA20096 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 05:12:31 -0500 Message-ID: <199906120509490470.0332D394@acnet.net> References: <1AF9B1873C6@agecon.uga.edu> <199906120016260730.0226308C@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 05:09:49 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems - resent (original post wasn't posted) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id GAA20101 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1237 My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates that Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given - which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American tropics and is not certainly a fungus. A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up no matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the same negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a weevil? More follows below: On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >Often times "sustainable" amounts to >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >the first place. What criteria are you applying to determine whether or not "something ought to be grown in a specific place"? >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Could you do that for us? >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would >still like to make a comment. Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following supposition that was far from established: >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >sustainablity steps have been taken I suggest that more attention be given toward resolving the underlying problems, rather than supposing that a given crop - in this case, a tropical fruit with a multitude of varieties that have adapted to a multitude of soil and climatic conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific tropical place", with no valid basis for making that unwarrented assumption. More than "forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes", some of "us humans" don't bother looking for round pegs to fit into round holes. Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant (to known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good place to start. The next step would be to contact the Brazilian / Portuguese equivalent of a "Centro de Investigacion sobre Control Biologico" or a "Laboratorio de Reproducion de Organismos Beneficos", in order to determine what they've got or could breed for you. (You will probably have anticipate the pests that are likely to attack and contract the breeding of both preventive and remedial beneficial organisms, to order. And you may have to contract a series of tests first, in order to determine which variety or strain of which organism will prove most effective). Douglas Hinds *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless of >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). >> >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be >considered. > >Anita > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 07:39:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA01934 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01875 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:34:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA01799 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id RAA08330; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:34:06 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma008182; Fri, 11 Jun 99 17:33:27 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:33:27 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDA2@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@CES.NCSU.EDU Subject: Harlan symposium Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 17:33:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@CES.NCSU.EDU Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1238 I thought some of you might be interested in one of the symposia at the Crop Science Society meeting to be held in Salt Lake City, Oct 31 - Nov 4. Summary: Jack R. Harlan was one of the founders of the modern plant genetic resources movement. His life work was dedicated to plant breeding, genetics and systematics of domestication of cultivated plants, and collection of genetic resources of many species from throughout the world. His collections work rivaled that of Nicolai Vavilov and his insights on centers of crop diversity clarified, corrected, and extended Vavilov's concepts. He was greatly interested in archeobotany and anthropology and participated in several field studies. Jack was a former president of the Crop Science Society of America, a Frank Meyer Medal winner, member of the US National Academy Sciences, and received many other recognitions. He died in August 1998 at the age of 81. His fellow crop scientists have organized a symposium that will highlight fields of study that were favorite topics for Jack's research and show recent advances since his work. The title of the symposium was stolen from his last book, The Living Fields, published in 1995. * Tom Stalker , Calvin O. Qualset "Living Fields": A Celebration of Jack Harlan's Crop Science A Symposium Crop Science Society of America November 4, 1999 Salt Lake City, Utah Co-organizers: T. Stalker, C. Qualset* Speaker Topic Ted Hymowitz Personal history of Jack Harlan Ledyard Stebbins An Appreciation of Jack Harlan: My First Graduate Student [video interview] Bruce Smith Archeobotany and Evolution of Agriculture Tom Stalker Origins of Crop Plants Jan Valkoun & Adi Damania Collecting Plant Genetic Resources: Principles learned from H.V. Harlan, N.I. Vavilov, and Jack Harlan Jan M.J. de Wet Crop Systematics: Lessons from Harlan's Work John Doebley Genetic Architecture of Maize Jan Dvorak Genetics of Domestication: Example of Wheat Hugo Perales In situ Conservation: Why Do Farmers Grow Maize Landraces in Mexico? Masa Iwanaga Ex situ Conservation: A Global View Cal Qualset What we have learned from large genetic resource collections Wayne Hanna Breeding Forage Grasses: Harlan's Contributions and Future Opportunities, Including Apomixis Paula Bramel-Cox Strategies for Using Genetic Resource Collection in Crop Breeding: Example from Sorghum Henry Shands Concluding Comments **************************************** *Planning Committee: Cal Qualset, Tom Stalker, Jeff Dahlberg, Ted Hymowitz, Henry Shands, Peter Bretting, Masa Iwanaga Full day symposium: 20 minutes average per speaker. 13 speakers with 5 minutes for discussion Convener: AM Tom Stalker; PM Cal Qualset Session Chair: AM Jeff Dahlberg, PM Peter Bretting Publication: To be determined To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 07:43:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA01960 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA17582 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:20:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA17393 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.45]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:19:11 -0500 Message-ID: <199906120016260730.0226308C@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <1AF9B1873C6@agecon.uga.edu> References: <1AF9B1873C6@agecon.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:16:26 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id BAA17399 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1239 My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates that Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given, which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American tropics and is not certainly a fungus. A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up no matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the same negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a weevil? On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >Often times "sustainable" amounts to >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >the first place. What criteria are you applying to whether "something ought to be grown in a specific place"? >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Could you do that for us? >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would >still like to make a comment. Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following supposition that was far from established: >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >sustainablity steps have been taken I suggest that attention be given toward resolving the underlying problems, rather than supposing a given crop - in this case, a tropical fruit with a multitude of varieties that have adapted to a multitude of soil and climatic conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific place". Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant (to known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good place to start. The next step would be to contact the Brazilian / Portuguese equivalent of a "Centro de Investigacion sobre Control Biologico" or a "Laboratorio de Reproducion de Organismos Beneficos", in order to determine what they've got or could breed for you. (You will probably have anticipate the pests that are likely to attack and contract the breeding of both preventive and remedial beneficial organisms, to order. And may have to contract a series of tests first, in order to determine which variety or strain of which organism will prove most effective). Douglas Hinds *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless of >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). >> >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be >considered. > >Anita > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 09:37:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02560 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA04378 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:53:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04293 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA02922 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:51:37 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990612075212.0070f714@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:52:12 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: RE: more info for the question of tomatoes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id IAA04319 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1240 Dale Wilson wrote: >Salts of copper and zinc are far more toxic than most commercial fungicides >and less effective. Boric acid and salts are toxic too, especially to >plants. > This statement is misleading. Copper, zinc and boron are essential elements, necessary in certain concentrations for life. Toxic effects occur at high concentrations. Applied at concentrations normal for fertilizers or for their fungistatic effect (Cu) they are very definitely *not* toxic. On the other had, commercial fungicides very definitely *are* toxic at the concentrations applied. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 10:27:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02853 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 10:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07690 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:44:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07578 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:43:45 -0500 Message-ID: <199906120841050290.03F44602@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990611183332.0094e880@nb.net> References: <199906111534.LAA12403@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <4.1.19990611183332.0094e880@nb.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:41:05 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Cass Peterson" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA07599 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1241 *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 11/06/99 at 7:21 PM Cass Peterson wrote: >I think Brazilians deserve locally grown tomatoes. I also think that human ingenuity, working with instead of against nature, will figure out a way to make that possible without toxic soup. I second that. Assuming that something is "not meant to be", with no fast, hard and comprehensive basis for doing so, is certainly no answer. In fact, it's an insult to human intelligence. This particular subject (concrete problems growing tomatoes in a given region of Brazil) is still very far from being exhausted and this isn't the first occasion that negative, uninformed comments have partially sidetracked honest, problem solving efforts on this forum. It sounds to me like the model being used for agricultural production in that area is largely responsible for current cultivation problems, having compounded the original issue of growing tomatoes there. D H Nothing more follows below. >Anita Graf, in response to a discussion of tomato problems in the tropics: >>> >>Often times "sustainable" amounts to >>figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >>the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, >>it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to >>the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >>sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of >>toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to >>reasses the planting regime from the beginning. > >That's a fair comment in some respects, but it reminds me of a comment my >brother once made. He's a wildlife biologist, and I asked him for advice on >how to keep the deer from devouring the farm profits. "You can't blame the >deer," he said. "They're just trying to help the ecosystem by eliminating >the exotics." > >Thanks, bro. Why is it that the deer eat the radicchio and ignore the >Russian thistle, which is no less an exotic? > >More seriously: Some part of the term "sustainability," it seems to me, >has to do with the ability to supply a great diversity of foods from local >or regional sources. > >We've figured out ways to grow--without a toxic arsenal, synthetic or >organic--most of the vegetables and fruits that are suited to our climate. >A few crops we gave up on, not because we couldn't grow them successfully >but because we couldn't grow them profitably. Big difference there. > >While we Pennsylvanians don't have quite the problems that Brazilians must >have with diseases and pests that flourish in heat and humidity, we sure >have more trouble with those problems than farmers in semi-arid regions. >('Course, they have to have their irrigation water shipped in, which isn't >all that sustainable, either.) > >I think Brazilians deserve locally grown tomatoes. I also think that human >ingenuity, working with instead of against nature, will figure out a way to >make that possible without toxic soup. > >Cass Peterson >cpete@nb.net > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 12:43:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03840 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA11291 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:11:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nac.net (tempest.nac.net [209.123.109.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA11209 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906121611.MAA11209@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: (qmail 19436 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 1999 16:11:02 -0000 Received: from s22.dial1.rox.nac.net (HELO localhost) (207.99.51.112) by tempest.nac.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 16:11:02 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Phil Reynolds" Organization: Garden State EnviroNet To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:11:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Groundhogs! Reply-to: mailbox@gsenet.org X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1242 Hi Folks, Can anyone offer some advice on eliminating groundhogs from an organic vegetable garden? Can they be baited into a large Hav-A-Heart? Thanks, Phil Reynolds mailbox@gsenet.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 13:06:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03992 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27902 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:33:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27894 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:33:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199906121130130710.003B76BF@acnet.net> References: <199906111534.LAA12403@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <4.1.19990611183332.0094e880@nb.net> <199906120841050290.03F44602@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:30:13 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "Lena Miller" Subject: Fwd: Re: Brazilian tomato problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA27895 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1243 Lena, http://www.bba.de/eggpara/eggp_10/eggp10.htm (That's Germany, right)? - The Federal Biological Research Centre for Agriculture and Forestry, Egg Parasitoid News Nr. 10: List of publications on egg parasitoids that appeared from 1991 to 1997 and were not included in previous issues; contains this note: C o l o m b i a Cross G., M. V. 1996. Evaluacin el parasitismo de Trichogramma pretiosum Riley sobre el pasador del fruto del tomate Neoleucinodes elegantalis Guene (Lepidptera: Pyralidae) en el Vale del Cauca. Tesis. Universidad de Nario. 106p. The results aren't cited but the fact that a thesis was done on this subjects suggests that at least a basis existed for setting up the study and therefore Trichogramma may well do the job against Neoleucinodes elegantalis. Here in Mexico (as in the U.S.), Trichogramma wasps are widely used for biological pest control, particularly in the sugar cane industry. The same cane borer that is controlled by it will also attack corn AND tomatoes, but it's relation to Neoleucinodes elegantalis is unclear to me. In any case, there is probably no benefical parasite more widely used or easier to get ahold of than Trichogramma, so I would give that a try. I would contact the local Ag. Extention person in your area, to ask about availability. (Perhaps you can get a copy of the thesis, if you want further information beforehand). Douglas Hinds *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 12/06/99 at 8:41 AM Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 11/06/99 at 7:21 PM Cass Peterson wrote: > >>I think Brazilians deserve locally grown tomatoes. I also think that human >ingenuity, working with instead of against nature, will figure out a way to >make that possible without toxic soup. > >I second that. Assuming that something is "not meant to be", with no fast, hard and comprehensive basis for doing so, is certainly no answer. In fact, it's an insult to human intelligence. This particular subject (concrete problems growing tomatoes in a given region of Brazil) is still very far from being exhausted and this isn't the first occasion that negative, uninformed comments have partially sidetracked honest, problem solving efforts on this forum. It sounds to me like the model being used for agricultural production in that area is largely responsible for current cultivation problems, having compounded the original issue of growing tomatoes there. > >D H > >Nothing more follows below. > > > >>Anita Graf, in response to a discussion of tomato problems in the tropics: >>>> >>>Often times "sustainable" amounts to >>>figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >>>the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, >>>it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to >>>the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >>>sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of >>>toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to >>>reasses the planting regime from the beginning. >> >>That's a fair comment in some respects, but it reminds me of a comment my >>brother once made. He's a wildlife biologist, and I asked him for advice on >>how to keep the deer from devouring the farm profits. "You can't blame the >>deer," he said. "They're just trying to help the ecosystem by eliminating >>the exotics." >> >>Thanks, bro. Why is it that the deer eat the radicchio and ignore the >>Russian thistle, which is no less an exotic? >> >>More seriously: Some part of the term "sustainability," it seems to me, >>has to do with the ability to supply a great diversity of foods from local >>or regional sources. >> >>We've figured out ways to grow--without a toxic arsenal, synthetic or >>organic--most of the vegetables and fruits that are suited to our climate. >>A few crops we gave up on, not because we couldn't grow them successfully >>but because we couldn't grow them profitably. Big difference there. >> >>While we Pennsylvanians don't have quite the problems that Brazilians must >>have with diseases and pests that flourish in heat and humidity, we sure >>have more trouble with those problems than farmers in semi-arid regions. >>('Course, they have to have their irrigation water shipped in, which isn't >>all that sustainable, either.) >> >>I think Brazilians deserve locally grown tomatoes. I also think that human >>ingenuity, working with instead of against nature, will figure out a way to >>make that possible without toxic soup. >> >>Cass Peterson >>cpete@nb.net >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 13:52:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04314 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28430 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:23:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28426 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:23:13 -0500 Message-ID: <199906121220220250.00696090@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:20:22 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "Lena Miller" Subject: Growing Tomatoes in Brazil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA28427 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1244 Lena, These leads also look promising regarding non a non toxic (or relatively non toxic) means of controlling Neoleucinodes elegantalis. We have a Brazilian Reseach Unit, a Biology of Organisms lab in Venezuela, the use of pheromones (there must be pheromone hormones available for it then) and a pyrethrum (plant based) class pesticide (the last two - in English & Portuguese), all found in relation to Neoleucinodes elegantalis. If the Trichogramma works, that would be my choice. Happy follow up. Douglas Hinds http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&q=%22Neoleucinodes+elegantalis%22&stq=10&c9k 12. Embrapa - Semi-rido - Agricultura News, links and information on the Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation - Embrapa's 37 research units, two services and 15 central units.... URL: www.cpatsa.embrapa.br/projsub.html Last modified 18-Dec-98 - page size 36K - in Portuguese [Translate] 14. Solange Issa Ponce DRA. SOLANGE ISSA P. Direccin: Laboratorio de Comportamiento. Departamento de Biologa de Organismos. Universidad Simn Bolvar. Apdo. 89000. Caracas... URL: atta.labb.usb.ve/solange.htm Last modified 27-Nov-98 - page size 7K - in Spanish [Translate] 18. Eiras THE USE OF SEX PHEROMONES FOR MONITORING THE TOMATO FRUIT BORER NEOLEUCINODES ELEGANTALIS GUENEE (LEPIDOPTERA: PYRALIDAE) A E Eiras1, A Cabrera 2, G... URL: www.ifs.se/Workshops/NP_Research_LatAm_1997/Eiras.htm Last modified 9-Feb-99 - page size 3K - in English (Win-1252) [Translate] 19. BAYER - Proteo das Plantas Turbo The Champ. New insecticide with a Betacyflutrin base, from the pyrethrum class with 50g of active ingredient per liter, with trans isomer... URL: www.bayer.com.br/protplan/english/prod9.htm Last modified 2-Mar-99 - page size 9K - in English [Translate] 20. BAYER - Proteo das Plantas Turbo O campeo. Novo inseticida base de Betacyflutrin, da classe dos piretrides com 50g de ingrediente ativo por litro, com predominncia dos ismeros. URL: www.bayer.com.br/protplan/prod9.htm Last modified 20-Apr-99 - page size 9K - in Portuguese [Translate] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 14:03:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04421 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA05306 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:33:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05219 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12218 invoked from network); 12 Jun 1999 17:33:34 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-13.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.185) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 12 Jun 1999 17:33:34 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990612132212.00936ab0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:33:16 -0400 To: mailbox@gsenet.org From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: Groundhogs! Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <199906121611.MAA11209@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1245 Phil Reynolds has groundhogs (who doesn't?): > Can anyone offer some advice on eliminating groundhogs from an >organic vegetable garden? Can they be baited into a large Hav-A-Heart? > Yup. Apples make the best bait. Set the trap near the entrance to the groundhog's burrow, preferably right in the groundhog's usual path. (The entance hole will have a mound of dirt adjacent. The exit will have no mound of dirt.) If you really don't want to kill the groundhog, check the trap frequently, especially if it's in the sun. Groundhogs can't take much heat and will die in the trap if they're stuck there too long. Release them at least two miles from the garden, or they'll beat you back home. If your veggie garden is small enough, you can fence groundhogs out with a sturdy wire fence. They burrow, though, so you'll need to trench out around the garden and bury the bottom six inches or so of the fence. Another trick that often works against groundhogs, rabbits, and other rodents is blood meal as a repellent. Don't sprinkle it on the ground, though. Put a couple of tablespoons in a yogurt or margarine tub, add a little water, and put in a rock for weight. Place a few of those around the garden. Keep the lid handy for when you want to work in the garden. After a few weeks, this stuff really stinks. Cass Peterson groundhog@flickerville.com Flickerville Mountain Farm & Groundhog Ranch Specialty Produce and Flowers ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Nothing is easy. The best is worth the effort. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ www.flickerville.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 14:07:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA04436 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07443 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:39:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07424 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.51]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:39:12 -0500 Message-ID: <199906121236220180.007806DE@acnet.net> References: <199906121220220250.00696090@acnet.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:20:22 -0600 From: "Douglas M.Hinds" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "Lena Miller" Subject: Growing Tomatoes in Brazil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA07425 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1246 (Redirected by "Douglas M. Hinds" ) Here's one more that looks promising right there in Brazil: (Bio Control for Neoleucinodes elegantalis). 23. Tabla 17: Plagas de importancia econmica y estado de desarrollo de tecnologa Online since 1985. Cosave. Tabla 17: Plagas de importancia econmica y estado de desarrollo de tecnologas para el control biolgico (TCB) en el cultivo... URL: bdt.org.br/bdt/biocontrol/cosave/tabla17.html Last modified 25-Apr-99 - page size 26K - in Spanish [Translate] The URL is no longer good, but this much of it was: http://bdt.org.br/ It's a nonprofit ecology group that does research and has a tropical data base. Fundao Andr Tosello Rua Latino Coelho, 1301 13087-010 Campinas SP fone:(019) 2427022 fax:(019) 2427022 Why don't you get ahold of them? Douglas Hinds *********** BEGIN REDIRECTED MESSAGE *********** Lena, These leads also look promising regarding non a non toxic (or relatively non toxic) means of controlling Neoleucinodes elegantalis. We have a Brazilian Reseach Unit, a Biology of Organisms lab in Venezuela, the use of pheromones (there must be pheromone hormones available for it then) and a pyrethrum (plant based) class pesticide (the last two - in English & Portuguese), all found in relation to Neoleucinodes elegantalis. If the Trichogramma works, that would be my choice. Happy follow up. Douglas Hinds http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&q=%22Neoleucinodes+elegantalis%22&stq=10&c9k 12. Embrapa - Semi-rido - Agricultura News, links and information on the Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation - Embrapa's 37 research units, two services and 15 central units.... URL: www.cpatsa.embrapa.br/projsub.html Last modified 18-Dec-98 - page size 36K - in Portuguese [Translate] 14. Solange Issa Ponce DRA. SOLANGE ISSA P. Direccin: Laboratorio de Comportamiento. Departamento de Biologa de Organismos. Universidad Simn Bolvar. Apdo. 89000. Caracas... URL: atta.labb.usb.ve/solange.htm Last modified 27-Nov-98 - page size 7K - in Spanish [Translate] 18. Eiras THE USE OF SEX PHEROMONES FOR MONITORING THE TOMATO FRUIT BORER NEOLEUCINODES ELEGANTALIS GUENEE (LEPIDOPTERA: PYRALIDAE) A E Eiras1, A Cabrera 2, G... URL: www.ifs.se/Workshops/NP_Research_LatAm_1997/Eiras.htm Last modified 9-Feb-99 - page size 3K - in English (Win-1252) [Translate] 19. BAYER - Proteo das Plantas Turbo The Champ. New insecticide with a Betacyflutrin base, from the pyrethrum class with 50g of active ingredient per liter, with trans isomer... URL: www.bayer.com.br/protplan/english/prod9.htm Last modified 2-Mar-99 - page size 9K - in English [Translate] 20. BAYER - Proteo das Plantas Turbo O campeo. Novo inseticida base de Betacyflutrin, da classe dos piretrides com 50g de ingrediente ativo por litro, com predominncia dos ismeros. URL: www.bayer.com.br/protplan/prod9.htm Last modified 20-Apr-99 - page size 9K - in Portuguese [Translate] *********** END REDIRECTED MESSAGE *********** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 18:32:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07159 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23053 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:57:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA22997 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:57:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Jjwarden@aol.com Received: from Jjwarden@aol.com (3878) by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7ORZa01249 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6f280472.249431aa@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:56:58 EDT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1083 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1247 Another approach to groundhogs is to get livestock in their area. Groundhogs will often move out when the neighborhood gets too crowded. Big dogs are useful, too, because they can intimidate groundhogs into moving out. (They can also kill them, particularly if working as a team). I tried pouring used cat littler down their burrows, thinking itwould gross them out but don't think it worked. When you release those little fellers pls. don't do it near horses -ground hog holes cause broken legs. Cheers, Jenny Warden Virginia To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 19:58:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07804 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA06539 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:24:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA06480 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p40s02a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.226.65] helo=globalnet) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10sx8V-0007yd-00 for sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:24:28 +0100 Message-ID: <028801beb52a$beb465a0$23d393c3@co.uk> From: "Alan Sloan" To: References: <199906121736.NAA06820@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1083 Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 00:16:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1248 ----- Original Message ----- From: Ecofoot To: Sent: 12 June 1999 19:26 Subject: FootNews 1 > F O O T N E W S > Newsletter 1 > 12th of June 1999 > ----- > Ecological Footprints on the Internet > http://www.demesta.com/ecofoot > ecofoot@demesta.com > ----- > > This is the first FootNews newsletter, a newsletter that will be published on an irregular basis. If you don't want to get any more FootNews mail, just visit the Ecofoot site (URL as above) and cancel your subscription. > > General News about Ecofoot > ========================== > The Ecofoot site is now officially "open" for any would-be users, so spread the word about it! As it has been developed on a totally non-commercial basis, I have put zilch money in marketing and such things. > > There had been some delay as I didn't have the time to implement equivalence factors, but the program now includes definable equivalence values for whatever application. > > Some more general information about Ecofoot: > Ecofoot was developed by me while I was writing my MA thesis in human ecology, just to have something else to do sometimes. It is hosted at Demesta, a small part-time computer company I run just for the fun of it. Nevertheless, Ecofoot is completely free to use for anyone interested. Ecofoot has a number of objectives: 1) to increase awareness of the EF-concept, and 2) to make it possible to use EF-analysis as an integral part in education at any level. > > So what about those Datasheets? > =============================== > It is easy to compose your own custom data sheets for Ecofoot. I have written a short manual on how to write data sheets - just send a blank email to the following adress and the manual will be automatically sent to you: > efsheetinfo@demesta.com > > After writing a data sheet, just email it back to me and I will put it out on the Ecofoot site. The data sheet is after that available to your students/users through the Ecofoot site. Also, if you want to include instructions and/or comments for the data sheet application, just send me these instructions and I will add them to the DataSheetComment-section. The would-be users of your data sheet can then consult these instructions if any problems should arise while running your data sheet(s). > > There are currently no general/standard data sheets available at the time, but as soon as I get the latest household values from Mathis Wackernagel, I will put them out on the Ecofoot site. Also, if anyone already has any national data and would like to write a data sheet, you are more than welcome! > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 12 23:23:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA09072 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA23347 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:56:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA23285 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00060 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-41.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.185]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA08521 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:58:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199906130258.VAA08521@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Subject: Mis-labelling livestock in health food stores Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:59:15 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1249 Can anybody help me find out who the suppliers of chicken and pork are to the biggest health food chains in the country? I've been hearing way too many rumors that Premium Standard Farms is supplying pork as well as Smithfield. They are number 3 and number 1 respectively in size of confinement operations in the country. I'm fairly certain the chickens are the same way. I have been trying to sell pigs to one of the chains without any luck. It is very frustrating to here them talk about how animals should be raised and how they prefer to buy from local farmers. It is sickening if they are talking the talk but then buying confinement animals and not even from small farmers. If anyone can get federal plant inspection numbers the next time they are in one of the health food chains I would appreciate it. From what I have heard they are very reluctant to show customers the boxes with the federal inspection label. The federal inspection label identifies the plant. Anyone with a list of federal processing plants can identify where animals came from by looking at the inspection number. Thanks in advance, Greg Gunthorp Free range and antibiotic free hogs LaGrange, IN To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 13 02:22:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA10352 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 02:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA18494 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:48:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net [207.41.144.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA18406 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kenn001b-149.cybertours.com (kenn001b-149.cybertours.com [208.161.21.149]) by gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with SMTP id BAA23517 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906130548.BAA23517@gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net> X-Sender: stevem@pop.nh.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: stevem@nh.ultranet.com (Stephen Maxam) Subject: re: Grounhogs Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1250 Phil Reynolds has groundhogs (who doesn't?): > Can anyone offer some advice on eliminating groundhogs from an >organic vegetable garden? Can they be baited into a large Hav-A-Heart? > I have had three years success with a three foot economy wire fence a la Home Depot. I buried the first side of the garden but tired of digging the trench, so for the other three sides I bent the bottom 3 or 4 inches of fence outwards. Maybe I have stupid woodchucks, but they haven't tried to dig under it. Also, I bend outwards the top 6 inches or so, making a shelf. The woodchuck may try to climb the fence, but he bumps his head on the shelf, and can't figure anything further to do. This has worked 100 per cent, except a couple of times when I left a hose draped over the fence and he used this to climb over. Stephen Maxam To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 13 11:37:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13170 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08215 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:41:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07894 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.133]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA04376 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:39:52 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990613094018.00705ad0@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:40:18 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Dioxin sourced; and PCBs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA07949 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1251 I recevied this article, originally from New Scientist, for those who were wondering about the source of contamination in Belgian food. Recipe for disaster Debora Mackenzie BELGIANS WILL BE REELING from further shocks this week. Food which was last week revealed to have been contaminated with dioxins also contained high levels of PCBs--and all the contaminated produce has probably already been eaten. What's more, the first estimates of likely doses suggest that young children may be at risk from the poisons. Meat and eggs started reappearing on Belgian grocery shelves this week, after the discovery of high levels of dioxins in chickens and eggs led to the destruction of thousands of tonnes of food. In January, chicken farmers noticed that eggs were not hatching and that chicks had neural disorders. At first, vets suspected nutrient deficiencies. In April, however, a feed manufacturer sent a laying hen and suspect feed to RIKILT, the Dutch State Institute for Quality Control of Agricultural Products based in Wageningen--the nearest laboratory that could measure dioxins. RIKILT found 781 parts per trillion of dioxins in fat in the feed--more than 1500 times the legal limit. The contamination was traced to an 80-tonne batch of fat produced by Verkest, a company near Ghent, which was sold to 12 feed manufacturers. Wim Traag of RIKILT says the batch contained 8 litres of oil containing dioxins and PCBs, which are also toxic. One theory is that used transformer oil, rich in PCBs, was dumped in a public recycling container for used frying oil. The batch would have made 1600 tonnes of feed, enough to feed 16 million chickens for a day, says Traag. The number of people affected depends on how many animals ate the poison and passed it on in meat or eggs. "Either a few people got a large dose, or many people got a small dose," says Traag. So far only two chickens and two eggs collected from hatcheries in April have been analysed. All were highly contaminated. The contaminated feed may have also been eaten by pigs and cattle, prompting the widespread withdrawal of meat products across Europe. But meat and eggs produced more recently have so far tested clean. "The contamination has probably all been eaten," says Traag. The two chickens contained 958 and 775 parts per trillion of dioxin in their fat, and one had 400 parts per million of PCBs--400 times the Dutch limit for food. Given the average Belgian diet, says Martin van den Berg of the University of Utrecht, if all eggs and chickens in the affected area contained 900 parts per trillion of dioxin in their fat, people would have consumed forty times the WHO's recommended daily limit of 1 picogram per kilogram of body weight. As certain PCBs resemble dioxins as well, he says, toxic limits could well have been exceeded a hundred-fold. The impact on the Belgian population--and on people elsewhere who ate Belgian products--depends on how much food was contaminated and how long it was available. "Most people carry 2 to 6 nanograms per kilogram of body weight of dioxins already," says Rolaf van Leeuwen of the WHO's European Centre for Environment and Health in Bilthoven, the Netherlands. A single egg containing 900 parts per trillion of dioxin in its fat adds 6 nanograms to that load--an increase of as little as 1.4 per cent for an adult, but as much as 20 per cent for a three-year-old. Like PCBs, dioxins persist in body fat. The doses consumed by the Belgians are probably too low to cause cancer, according to van den Berg, but could affect neural and cognitive development, the immune system, and thyroid and steroid hormones, especially in unborn and young children. "People at risk should be identified now, and followed medically for the next ten years," he says. From New Scientist, 12 June 1999 Copyright New Scientist, RBI Limited 1999 Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 13 14:13:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA14224 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA06720 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:32:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu (saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu [131.230.252.26]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06713 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from saluki-mail.siu.edu (saluki-mail.siu.edu [131.230.252.17]) by saluki-mailsmtp.siu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA37078; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:31:29 -0500 Received: from ws0039.siu.edu (ws39.c-ag.siu.edu [131.230.82.39]) by saluki-mail.siu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17474; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:33:26 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990613123237.00a89aa0@saluki-mail.siu.edu> X-Sender: sekraft@saluki-mail.siu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:32:37 -0500 To: Ronald Nigh , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Steven Kraft Subject: Re: Dioxin sourced; and PCBs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1252 For those of you interested in this, I suggest you read The Poisoning Of Michigan which presents the impact on MI of the accidental mixing of fire retardant with dairy ration. This happened in the 1970s. Steven At 09:40 AM 6/13/99 -0500, Ronald Nigh wrote: >I recevied this article, originally from New Scientist, for those who were >wondering about the source of contamination in Belgian food. > > > > =20 > > Recipe for disaster > > Debora Mackenzie > BELGIANS WILL BE REELING from > further shocks this week. Food which was last week > revealed to have been contaminated with dioxins also > contained high levels of PCBs--and all the > contaminated produce has probably already been > eaten. What's more, the first estimates of likely doses > suggest that young children may be at risk from the > poisons.=20 > > Meat and eggs started reappearing on Belgian grocery > shelves this week, after the discovery of high levels of > dioxins in chickens and eggs led to the destruction of > thousands of tonnes of food.=20 > > In January, chicken farmers noticed that eggs were > not hatching and that chicks had neural disorders. At > first, vets suspected nutrient deficiencies. In April, > however, a feed manufacturer sent a laying hen and > suspect feed to RIKILT, the Dutch State Institute for > Quality Control of Agricultural Products based in > Wageningen--the nearest laboratory that could > measure dioxins.=20 > > RIKILT found 781 parts per trillion of dioxins in fat > in the feed--more than 1500 times the legal limit. The > contamination was traced to an 80-tonne batch of fat > produced by Verkest, a company near Ghent, which > was sold to 12 feed manufacturers.=20 > > Wim Traag of RIKILT says the batch contained 8 > litres of oil containing dioxins and PCBs, which are > also toxic. One theory is that used transformer oil, > rich in PCBs, was dumped in a public recycling > container for used frying oil.=20 > > The batch would have made 1600 tonnes of feed, > enough to feed 16 million chickens for a day, says > Traag. The number of people affected depends on > how many animals ate the poison and passed it on in > meat or eggs. "Either a few people got a large dose, or > many people got a small dose," says Traag.=20 > > So far only two chickens and two eggs collected from > hatcheries in April have been analysed. All were > highly contaminated. The contaminated feed may > have also been eaten by pigs and cattle, prompting the > widespread withdrawal of meat products across > Europe. But meat and eggs produced more recently > have so far tested clean. "The contamination has > probably all been eaten," says Traag.=20 > > The two chickens contained 958 and 775 parts per > trillion of dioxin in their fat, and one had 400 parts per > million of PCBs--400 times the Dutch limit for food. > Given the average Belgian diet, says Martin van den > Berg of the University of Utrecht, if all eggs and > chickens in the affected area contained 900 parts per > trillion of dioxin in their fat, people would have > consumed forty times the WHO's recommended daily > limit of 1 picogram per kilogram of body weight. As > certain PCBs resemble dioxins as well, he says, toxic > limits could well have been exceeded a hundred-fold.=20 > > The impact on the Belgian population--and on people > elsewhere who ate Belgian products--depends on how > much food was contaminated and how long it was > available. "Most people carry 2 to 6 nanograms per > kilogram of body weight of dioxins already," says > Rolaf van Leeuwen of the WHO's European Centre > for Environment and Health in Bilthoven, the > Netherlands. A single egg containing 900 parts per > trillion of dioxin in its fat adds 6 nanograms to that > load--an increase of as little as 1.4 per cent for an > adult, but as much as 20 per cent for a three-year-old. > Like PCBs, dioxins persist in body fat.=20 > > The doses consumed by the Belgians are probably too > low to cause cancer, according to van den Berg, but > could affect neural and cognitive development, the > immune system, and thyroid and steroid hormones, > especially in unborn and young children. "People at > risk should be identified now, and followed medically > for the next ten years," he says. > > From New Scientist, 12 June 1999 > > =20 > > > > =A9 Copyright New Scientist, RBI Limited 1999 > >Ronald Nigh >Dana, A.C. >Mexico, D.F. & San Crist=F3bal de Las Casas, Chiapas >Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) >danamex@mail.internet.com.mx > =20 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Steven E. Kraft Professor/Chair Dept. of Agribusiness Economics Southern Illinois University Carbondale Carbondale, IL 62901-4410 Ph. 618-453-2421 Fx. 618-453-1708 email: sekraft@siu.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 13 19:07:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA17728 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA04407 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:18:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA04398 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.144.141] (dialup-0141.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.144.141]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA37620 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:18:11 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <375F504E.D85F2AB3@cillnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:19:16 +0100 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: [Fwd: fwd on dioxin in europe] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA04399 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1253 I don't know who CPE are but I know a lot of their press release is untrue >CPE >> >Coordination Paysanne Europenne >Nothing has been done either in the present CAP or in >Agenda 2000 Well here in Ireland a great deal has been done under CAP and more is in agenda 2000 to encourage a move towards sustainable agriculture - check out the Rural Environment Protection Scheme on our Dept Ag web site - don't have the address but it will link from the irlgov site somewhere >developed on the basis of imports of animal feedstuffs from >all over theplanet at the lowest possible price. These >regions (land, rivers, groundwater, coastal waters) >are overflowing with manure or droppings which causemajor >environmental and water quality problems. But most european governments are now doing something about it >- it uses antibiotics in feedstuffs, true - supposed to be prescription only for known on farm health problems but law is broken - not permitted as growth promoters tranquillisers >for stressed animals, not permitted in most european countries - would be interested to find out where this is happening > growth promoters, no - banned throughout EU >hormones, ditto regardless >of human and animal health, >- it uses unsafe agricultural or industrial waste tofeed >the animals(e.g. citrus fruit waste with a too high >pesticide content, banned unless testing at safe level >animal fat from carcass disposal, banned I would like to point out that I am not an advocate of conventional farming in any way - in fact I am a standards manager for an organic certification scheme - but whoever is putting out this scaremongering rubbish is simply playing into the hands of the multinational (not just american) companies who are working so hard to prevent the consumer finding out just what is in the food they eat. kathryn Kathryn Marsh, Joint Standards Manager, Organic Trust, Tobersool, Balbriggan, Co Dublin, Ireland Phone 0353 1 841 3681 kmarsh@iol.ie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 13 21:26:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18753 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA17235 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:42:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17120 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA14950 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-15-11.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.251]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02063; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:44:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199906132344.SAA02063@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "kathryn marsh" Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: Mis-labelling livestock in health food stores Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:44:25 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1254 American consumers accept most anything. We are in the dark ages when it comes to information about our food supply. The agriculture industry in this country has way too much power and so far the sustainable ag community is making very few chinks in its armour. We aren't even 6 months into allowing meat to be labelled organic in this country! Short of buying organic, I'm not sure a person would have the slightest idea on country of origin let alone farm or whether it contains gmo's, hormones, etc. Best wishes, Greg ---------- > From: kathryn marsh > To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp > Subject: Re: Mis-labelling livestock in health food stores > Date: Sunday, June 13, 1999 4:51 PM > > > > > If anyone can get federal plant inspection numbers the next time they are > >in one of the health food chains I would appreciate it. From what I have > >heard they are very reluctant to show customers the boxes with the federal > >inspection label. The federal inspection label identifies the plant. > >Anyone with a list of federal processing plants can identify where animals > >came from by looking at the inspection number. > > > Greg > > are you seriously saying that in the US the consumer doesn't have the right > to know who the producer of his meat is? All meat here in Ireland is > traceable to source - you just ask the store - sometimes they can tell you > straight away, sometimes it takes a day or two, but all meat is directly > traceable to the farm of origin from the consumer packaging - what on earth > are american consumers willing to accept? > > kathryn > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 13 21:49:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18951 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA08554 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:17:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA08544 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:17:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.49] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:16:08 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:19:26 -0400 Subject: Mislabeling Livestock in Health Food Stores From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990614011608050.AAA279@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.49]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1255 Greg Gunthorp's query regarding mislabeling livestock in health food stores Sanet-mg-digest #1085. Recently I called the largest whole foods store in my area (17 stores in 5 state region) to see if I could sell them organic, free range poultry. The meat counter manager told me he already had organic chickens available. When I asked "who from" he named two poultry producers that are confinement broiler houses in Pennsylvania. I gently asked who certified them? He then backtracked and said the poultry sold in his store was "Free Range". When I gently pointed out to him that the chickens were in fact "confinement" he said, "Oh No, it says right here on my sign they are Free Roaming". Who certifies "free roaming" and do consumers believe this is a good thing? Then I went over to the whole food store's egg case and looked at the ORGANIC eggs, bought a half dozen for $2.65, took them home and cracked one open. It looked just like a typical supermarket egg, pallid, soft and watery. I compared it to one of my own FREE RANGE FOR SURE eggs which had a big, orange, fat and sassy yoke, and a firm white. No Contest. How did these ORGANIC eggs get certified when they look and taste like ordinary supermarket eggs? What about the rest of the organic requirements, such as rotations, and sunshine, and healthy environments including green grass, and appropriate stocking rates? Can anyone explain to me why we've struggled for 25 years to get organic food labeled and into the mainstream, and then we go and let these sick eggs be called ORGANIC? Can you imagine a consumer eating one of those tasteless so-called organic eggs and then being eager to run out and buy more? Or to buy other "organic" produce? At the same whole foods health food store I left messages for the three produce buyers, explaining that I want to supply their 17 stores with organic, free range broilers, eggs and turkeys. None of the three returned my phone calls. Not too long ago I attended a organic grain symposium where the main speaker was from a large whole foods chain. The speaker lamented several times that they really, really prefer to buy locally, but they simply can't find any farmers. Contrary to what that speaker said, I think these big whole food stores won't carry local OR organic produce if it means they have to deal with someone other than the wholesale broker. Has anyone else out there had similar experiences? Sincerely, Andy Lee Good Earth Farm 1702 Mountain View Road Buena Vista, Virginia 24416 Phone and Fax 540-261-8775 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Jun 12 23:23:01 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA09072 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA23347 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:56:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA23285 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00060 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-41.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.185]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA08521 for ; Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:58:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199906130258.VAA08521@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Subject: Mis-labelling livestock in health food stores Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:59:15 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1256 Can anybody help me find out who the suppliers of chicken and pork are to the biggest health food chains in the country? I've been hearing way too many rumors that Premium Standard Farms is supplying pork as well as Smithfield. They are number 3 and number 1 respectively in size of confinement operations in the country. I'm fairly certain the chickens are the same way. I have been trying to sell pigs to one of the chains without any luck. It is very frustrating to here them talk about how animals should be raised and how they prefer to buy from local farmers. It is sickening if they are talking the talk but then buying confinement animals and not even from small farmers. If anyone can get federal plant inspection numbers the next time they are in one of the health food chains I would appreciate it. From what I have heard they are very reluctant to show customers the boxes with the federal inspection label. The federal inspection label identifies the plant. Anyone with a list of federal processing plants can identify where animals came from by looking at the inspection number. Thanks in advance, Greg Gunthorp Free range and antibiotic free hogs LaGrange, IN To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 13 22:44:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19412 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA01175 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:04:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA01100 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d35-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.35]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16267; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:04:08 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Mark" , Subject: RE: Small scale rotational grazing resource sought Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:07:02 +1000 Message-ID: <000001beb60a$98245a40$233325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990604142237.007d4100@crocker.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1257 Mark wrote "I need to find some information on small scale rotational grazing. I am working with someone who has a flock of chickens, one goat and one ram and around 7 open acres and wants to know if there is a way to set these critters up in a rotational grazing system." I am inclined to the view that a goat alone and perhaps a ram alone, are deeply unhappy creatures, and I would discourage someone from keeping highly social animals alone. And a goat alone is likely to be a tethered goat, which is in human terms a bit like a tethered, muzzled Robyn Williams or Bette Midler. The finest book on goat husbandry is by a Scotsman, David Mackenzie, "Goat Husbandry" can't find my copy for citation. Wonderful account of the social behavior of goat herds (and their attitudes to goatherds), and of the wisdom with which goats seek the edible. Good diagrams to make the point that if you draw a goat, a cow and a sheep same size, the digestive apparatus of the goat is comparatively enormous. The goat is a fragile thing dependent on acquiring daily, by browse, rather than grazing, a wide variety of feed to keep a powerful, diverse, rough and rich compost going. So, in any succession, the goat must come first (after a good browse of weed and shrubbery is established), and have first turn at the trees and shrubs (and the berries and the peach trees, unless you have very sound fences). And it must be kept relatively dry. A wormy goat in the rain dies miserably and fast. A goat will not willingly eat off the ground. It is very vulnerable to worms, and shares worms with sheep. A sheep by contrast must have very short grass to graze, and if included in a rotation, the sheep can follow a cow. I think a sheep is not at worm risk from cattle, but a vet may have better advice. There should be a big interval in rotation between the sheep and the goat. SO: goats browse, cows then graze high, sheep graze short, chooks peck and plough, crops then flourish with their own rotation, weeds and bushes arise and cleanse the soil for the lordly goat. To raise a small goat herd takes courage, patience and time. Much as does family day care among the hyperactive, I imagine. I dearly loved a couple of milking goats we once had, but I could no more walk out the door and do something privately without these lovely women shouting to me and following me, inspecting my pockets, than I could walk past a child crying in a cot. There are few more idyllic and sensual experiences than being outdoors on a spring morning with your ear to the belly of a tall dark Anglo Nubian nanny, taking her milk as she, with sweet breath from a breakfast of molasses-sprayed horse mix, nibbles your ear. Sigh... temps perdu. But look them in the eye - they always look you in the eye - and you will know that these women, if not doted upon, fondled and restrained daily, will be fickle and treacherous. A Washington DC journalist who went feral in near-suburban Maryland wrote an entertaining little book "Never Kiss a Goat on the Lips" [in case it has been eating poison ivy, he says], which I also can't find to cite. It has useful discussions of such matters as moving the matrimonial bed to the barn to better attend to lady goats in child birth. Read it before buying a goat. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 13 22:45:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19422 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA01454 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:05:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA01331 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d35-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.35]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16362; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:04:45 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "John Lozier" , "BILL DUESING" <71042.2023@compuserve.com>, , Subject: RE: Soil and Human Intestines, etc Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:07:40 +1000 Message-ID: <001101beb60a$ae891460$233325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990601103337.006b72d8@wvu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1258 John asked, some time ago (I've been away, not seen other answers though): ->I wonder what the dry mass of independent organisms living within a human being amounts to. I mean, relative to the human part of our body. Anybody know? My understanding is that it's about 10% dry weight. (But I'm staying wet thank you - "Life is an aqueous experience" Marston Bates, The Nature of Natural History, Princeton Science Library http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/4743.html ) This sort of figure makes you realise how really simplistic our 'Listerine' thinking about fighting bacteria really is - when you realise that our survival depends on internal microorganism, much as does the rest of life, and underscores the importance of whole systems in healthy organic growing, for people or food. If people accept such a state within themselves, then they will find it easier to see the complexity of a plant's association with the soil. Lyn Margulis argues http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-journals/Leonardo/reviews/books/asbmicr.html that some functions currently performed by intestinal bacteria, for example production of vitamin B12, will eventually be taken over by hosts of the bacteria. Leaving aside the still independent microorganisms, we need to be very aware that there is very modest scientific understanding of the roles of organelles in cells or their origins. Notable among organelles are the mitochondria of which we may, depending on health, have ten to a thousand in each cell. Mitochondria have their own DNA (the formerly Unknown [US] Vietnam Soldier was identified not by his own cellular DNA but by his mitochondria's DNA). While they farm some of the maintenance of their genetic needs out to nuclear DNA, the mitochondria retain (in all cells with nuclei, in all life forms) the roles of respiration and steroidogenesis, without which life generally would have neither form nor performance. I think that wider understanding the complexity of this web of life within organisms - far more complex than the commonly discussed food chains and patterns of parasitism, symbiosis and predation between whole organisms - is very important to getting people to see the world as a bit more complex that that of a 'dominant' species having rights or obligations. We may thing we need to eat well for ourselves, but we give little conscious thought to the physiological and emotional needs (if I may venture the latter to exist) to the United Nations inside us. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 06:15:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22482 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:15:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA28825 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:40:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kang.tinet.ie (kang.tinet.ie [159.134.237.28]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA28698 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p214.ennis1.tinet.ie ([159.134.245.214] helo=tinet.ie) by kang.tinet.ie with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #23) id 10tTEI-0006pj-00 for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:40:35 +0100 Message-ID: <37643F54.142165C6@tinet.ie> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 00:31:32 +0100 From: Ute Bohnsack X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,de-DE MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: fwd on dioxin in europe] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1259 No offence, Kathryn, but because of its payment structure REPS is not targeting the biggest and most intensive farms and certainly not the large pig and poultry units. OTOH the scheme has been beneficial to the organic sector because of the extra payments available to registered organic holdings participating in the scheme. It also appears to have catapulted organic farming out of the *beardies and their weirdies* realm. Finally you can talk about 'organics' even in the most conservative of farming circles w/o getting that *smile*. The Irish Dept. of Agriculture and Food can be found at http://www.irlgov.ie/daff/ . Basic info on the Rural Environment Protection Scheme is available there. For those with a deeper interest in the matter, the Irish Heritage Council http://ireland.iol.ie/~sec/ is shortly going to publish a report on the "Impacts of Agriculture Schemes and Premia Payments on Aspects of Irish Heritage" including a detailed ag policy analysis and a good, hard look at the pros and cons of the REPS. An ag policy document has already been published by the Council which draws on findings of the report. For those interested in the European picture check out the European Commission Webserver, DGVI Agriculture at http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg06/index.htm and go to "Agriculture and Environment". Greetings from Ireland. Ute kathryn marsh wrote: [snip] > Well here in Ireland a great deal has been done under CAP and more is in > agenda 2000 to encourage a move towards sustainable agriculture - check out > the Rural Environment Protection Scheme on our Dept Ag web site - don't > have the address but it will link from the irlgov site somewhere > [snip] > I would like to point out that I am not an advocate of conventional farming > in any way - in fact I am a standards manager for an organic certification > scheme - but whoever is putting out this scaremongering rubbish is simply > playing into the hands of the multinational (not just american) companies > who are working so hard to prevent the consumer finding out just what is in > the food they eat. > > kathryn > > Kathryn Marsh, Joint Standards Manager, Organic Trust, Tobersool, > Balbriggan, Co Dublin, Ireland > Phone 0353 1 841 3681 > kmarsh@iol.ie > -- Dipl.-Ing. TU Landschafts- und Freiraumplanung Ute Bohnsack Sailchearnach Clogher Kilfenora Co. Clare Ireland mailto:sustag@tinet.ie EN-DE-EN Naturschutz, Landschaftsplanung, Landwirtschaft http://www.atril.com/bin/directory.dll/1546 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 06:36:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22557 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA08430 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:55:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA08351 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) id <01JCDHYE3VVK0006DI@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:41:55 PDT Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JCDHYCOY4M000A4P@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:48:15 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:48:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:33:45 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems To: "'Douglas M. Hinds'" , "Anita Graf (Staff)" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80AA@10.248.CABI.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1260 I found 31 hits on the CAB ABSTRACTS database since 1984 (I didn't check earlier than that). Most papers refer to Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Lepidoptera: Pyraustidae) as "tomato fruit borer". > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] > Sent: 12 June 1999 07:16 > To: Anita Graf (Staff); sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems > > > My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates that > Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" > (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given, > which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American > tropics and is not certainly a fungus. > > A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up no > matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the same > negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a > weevil? > > On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > >Often times "sustainable" amounts to > >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > >the first place. > > What criteria are you applying to whether "something ought to be grown in > a specific place"? > > >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. > > Could you do that for us? > > >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > >still like to make a comment. > > Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic > contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following > supposition that was far from established: > > >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > >sustainablity steps have been taken > > I suggest that attention be given toward resolving the underlying > problems, rather than supposing a given crop - in this case, a tropical > fruit with a multitude of varieties that have adapted to a multitude of > soil and climatic conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific place". > > Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant (to > known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good place > to start. The next step would be to contact the Brazilian / Portuguese > equivalent of a "Centro de Investigacion sobre Control Biologico" or a > "Laboratorio de Reproducion de Organismos Beneficos", in order to > determine what they've got or could breed for you. (You will probably > have anticipate the pests that are likely to attack and contract the > breeding of both preventive and remedial beneficial organisms, to order. > And may have to contract a series of tests first, in order to determine > which variety or strain of which organism will prove most effective). > > Douglas Hinds > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a > >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless > of > >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long > >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues > >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). > >> > >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to > >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, > >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to > >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of > >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to > >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't > >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are > >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be > >considered. > > > >Anita > > > > > >Anita Graf > >313-F Conner Hall > >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > >University of Georgia > >Athens, GA 30602-7509 > >(706) 542-1915 phone > >(706) 542-0739 fax > >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 06:48:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA22625 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA18783 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:11:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from bridge.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA18714 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by bridge.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09317 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:14:52 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32196 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:10:50 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 14 Jun 99 12:06:35 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 14 Jun 99 12:05:36 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:58:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: gulliver's travels - revisited Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <483AAD1579B@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id GAA18724 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1261 anybody read swift's "gulliver's travel" ? here's, how the story went on: (source unknown) ------------------ Only an ungrateful nation could forget the debt we owe to the King of Brobdingnag and his timely advice to Mr Gulliver. Had he not been so kind as to remind us of our obligations to the needy, we might never had engaged upon a project which must surely rank among our most enduring sources of pride. Indeed, so diligent has England's discharge of these duties been that she now spends more money on this enterprise than she could ever hope to recoup. Malicious tongues among us have suggested that credit for this accomplishment should rest wholly with the good offices of the European Union and its Common Agricultural Policy. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have achieved this breakthrough only by means of centuries of patriotic endeavour and the national sacrifice. For, as our historians have now established, upon returning to England Mr Gulliver wasted no time in promulgating the monarch's wise words. Scarcely had he set foot once more on his native soil than politicians of all persuasions began to abandon the self-interested pursuit of wealth and power and devote themselves to the welfare of the people. >From approximately 1730 onwards, Members of Parliament started to display a robust interest in agricultural improvement. Neglecting the less pressing affairs of state, they passed, over the next 120 years, no fewer than 4,200 Acts of Enclosure. The Acts empowered special commissioners to divide up and enclose with hedges the commons which had provided for the wasteful subsistence of England's innumerable cottars, copyholders and small freeholders. They had the effect of sensibly dispensing with the customary rights that were such an impediment to progress, and placing absolute control of the land in the hands of certain individuals, freeing them to engage in agricultural improvements of the kind the King of Brobdingnag had envisaged. By a happy and wholly unanticipated coincidence, most of the beneficiaries of these reforms were large landowners. As most Members of Parliament happened to be substantial proprietors themselves, their disinterested work on behalf of the poor was, by good fortune, rewarded. Sir Thomas Coke, of Holkham in Norfolk, was one of the landlords who first put his new powers to the service of the nation. Between 1778 and 1794, he raised the value of his land from 5000 a year to 20,000 a year by means of new agricultural techniques. His patriotic example was swiftly followed by other enlightened proprietors, and grain, sheep and cattle production were all enormously enhanced in order to furnish the Exchequer and feed the hungry. It was, of course, true that some trifling number of the rural poor - a few hundred thousand at most - lost, in the course of the enclosures, the ability to feed themselves. But this petty inconvenience was more than offset by the unrivalled opportunities with which they were now presented. Many were, for example, able to enjoy the redeeming virtues of hard work through the opportunities provided by the landlords. Others were able to move to the cities, where they could render service to their country by labouring, in conditions of noble self-sacrifice, for up to eighteen hours a day in the factories, while receiving a wage which barely ensured their survival. For reasons best known to themselves, however, the dispossessed commoners failed to demonstrate the full measure of their gratitude for these new opportunities. Far from thanking their benefactors, they rioted repeatedly, setting fire to hayricks, damaging the landlords' houses and destroying the new hedges. Fortunately, justices of the peace were conveniently placed to deal with this insurrection, for most of them were landowners. With the help of the yeomanry, they brought the full impartiality of the law to bear on these impertinent wretches - hundreds were hanged, transported, or imprisoned for life. Our representatives' concern for the moral welfare of the people was such that they begrudged no amount of patient effort in dealing with even the most inconsequential of these matters. The new capital offences they introduced allowed rogues who broke windows, pulled down fences or knocked landlords' hats off their heads to be hanged for their insolence. Perhaps the agricultural labourers who remained so strangely ungrateful for the new prosperity introduced to the countryside failed to understand that the high price the landowners continued to receive for their grain was good for the agricultural economy, as was the reduction of the workers' negligible wages. Indeed, thousands of those who starved to death utterly failed to comprehend how beneficial these arrangements were. To ensure that they persisted, the representatives who had forgone the selfish pursuit of petty politics in deference to the King of Brobdingnag's wishes, passed, from 1815 onwards, a new series of far-sighted Acts. The Corn Laws ensured that landowners would always find a good price for their grain, as they forbade the importation of foreign wheat until domestic prices had fallen below a certain level - in other words, grain could only be imported when it was least needed. Having thus secured the viability of the agricultural sector, our reformed politicians then concentrated on stimulating the economy still further by selflessly squandering their money. While the peasants starved for want of enterprise, the landlords sought to demonstrate to them what the fruits of hard labour could deliver, by means of balls and banquets, fine clothes and follies, brandy, hunting and whoring. When the Prime Minister, Sir Robert Peel, so short-sightedly sought to restrain the enterprise economy by repealing the Corn Laws, the honourable members demonstrated their disgust at this blatant attempt to mix politics with the imperative of food production, by opposing him as best as they were able. At length however, his revolutionary tendencies, so cunningly concealed earlier in his career, prevailed. Thanks to his reckless measures, both the stick of starvation and the carrot of opulence became less compelling incentives to the improving discipline of unstinting labour. To ensure, however, that politics and food production remained wholly separate affairs, agricultural labourers were denied the vote until 1884. Over the next one hundred years, land holding in England was gradually rationalised. Today, with one of the highest concentrations of ownership in the world, our landlords are a source of enduring pride to the nation. Their approach to agriculture combines the best of modern technology and traditional values. Sensibly, they have no truck with such ephemeral conceits as democratic accountability, landscape protection or market mechanisms, but plough on irrespective of such fads. Our politicians, meanwhile, have remained patriotically committed to sustaining the triumphant pace of agricultural improvement. After the Second World War, the British government decided that our vulnerable nation should never again be dependent on imports of basic foods for its sustenance. So, to free us from he necessity of buying foreign grain, it subsidised the purchase of machinery, pesticides and fertiliser, and the resulting transformation of the industry. Fortunately for international trade, nearly all of our tractors and chemicals are imported. Though we would swiftly starve in the unfortunate event of war, the degree of technological innovation on our farms should be a source of admiration. Britain is now such an advanced nation that she employs fewer people in farming as a proportion of her population than does the city state of Hong Kong. In introducing these changes, we have dispensed with many cumbersome and unnecessary obstacles, not the least of which is soil. For centuries, farmers laboured under the misapprehension that they needed soil in order to grow crops. Thanks to felicitous introduction of deep ploughing, and the accompanying relocation of much of this vexatious dirt into the sea, we are able to demonstrate that such antediluvian practices need have no place in modern agriculture. Crops can be grown on little more than shingle, with sufficient applications of fertiliser. We have disposed too of many of the unsightly lumps and ridges which one disfigured our agricultural landscape. The barrows, hill forts, field systems and ancient lanes which mired us in the past and intruded on our views of the wholesome earth, have already been erased from many parts of England, and farmers are seeking to complete the task as rapidly as possible. Modern agriculture has successfully eliminated such irritations as skylarks, song-thrushes and nightingales from many parts of their ranges, immersing the country side in a deep and lasting peace. It has relieved us of the burden of insect life, and the distraction of wild flowers. But no measure of success in modern agriculture is as uplifting as the tremendous boost to food production these new techniques have precipitated. Indeed, so well stocked are our granaries that hundreds of millions are spent each year in storing and destroying surplus food. In raising output so markedly, we not only maintain our landowners in the noble style to which they are accustomed, but also guarantee our pre-eminence in the global marketplace, by averting the possibility of self-reliance in the developing world. In Britain, such foresight costs the taxpayer a mere 2 billion a year - a competitive price for such selfless service to humankind. Yet we refuse to rest on our laurels. So determined are we to grow three, four, even ten ears of corn or its equivalent where but one grew before, that we are now trying to introduce parts of bacteria into plants, scorpions into caterpillars and humans into pigs. As humble citizens of a trifling land, our only regret must surely be that the King of Brobdingnag cannot be present to marvel at how assiduously we have followed his advice. " ----------- Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 08:54:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA23641 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA19614 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:46:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vugon.vista.ac.za ([196.13.30.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA18957 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acaleph.vista.ac.za (acaleph.vista.ac.za [196.13.2.20]) by vugon.vista.ac.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27336 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:07:36 GMT Message-Id: <199906141407.OAA27336@vugon.vista.ac.za> Received: from FT/SpoolDir by acaleph.vista.ac.za (Mercury 1.21); 14 Jun 99 13:51:59 GMT+2 Received: from SpoolDir by FT (Mercury 1.21); 14 Jun 99 13:51:22 GMT+2 From: "Dr Maggi Linington" Organization: Vista University - Academic To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:51:09 GMT+2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1086 In-reply-to: <199906141013.GAA19879@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1262 Reply to Kathryn >I would like to point out that I am not an advocate of conventional farming > in any way - in fact I am a standards manager for an organic certification > scheme I hate to split hairs on language use, but I think this is vital: What is "conventional?" I would rather see a term like Maximum profit farming or Highly intensified farming or Big business farming. I also hate the word commercial: all farming has something to do with commerce unless it is subsistance. Maybe a good term would be Hi-Tech farming. > > - but whoever is putting out this scaremongering rubbish is simply > playing into the hands of the multinational (not just american) companies > who are working so hard to prevent the consumer finding out just what is in > the food they eat. Hear Hear, A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.. I think these people either have little knowledge, or if they are knowledgeable they are extremists who have a passion to see a falsehood as a truth or they have a hidden agenda i.e. they want to scare people into buying their products etc. > kathryn > > > Kathryn Marsh, Joint Standards Manager, Organic Trust, Tobersool, > Balbriggan, Co Dublin, Ireland > Phone 0353 1 841 3681 > kmarsh@iol.ie > Dr MJ Linington HEAD:Department Agricultural Sciences email:lngtn-mj@acaleph.vista.ac.za Snail Mail: Dept. Agricutural Sciences VUDEC, Vista University P/Bag X641, Pretoria, 0001 Tel: 012 322 1303 Fax: 012 322 3243 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 08:59:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA24086 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11420 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:18:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11342 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:18:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (7811) by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7VGSa05869 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:17:19 EDT Subject: Organic time bomb To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1263 As reported in Transitions in the past year, the GMO-exclusion trend may now lead to banning the use of conventional manures or composts applied to organic farms. If the conventional market intends to ban GMO-fed livestock, the "ergo" implied here may affect organic production standards. Better be prepared to deal with this one. Steve Sprinkel Arcadia, Wisconsin SUNDAY INDEPENDENT (London) June 13 Supermarkets join forces on GM animal feed By Marie Woolf Britain's supermarkets are planning to take from their shelves meat from animals fed on GM crops because of consumer concerns about possible health risks. The move by a consortium including Sainsbury, Safeway, Marks & Spencer, Northern Foods, Nestle and Unilever, will come as a huge blow to the GM industry. Earlier this year, Sainsbury became the latest in a string of British supermarkets, including M&S and Iceland, to remove all GM ingredients from its own-brand range of foods. Now the supermarket giant has teamed up with food producers to ask the world's biggest grain producers to grow them GM-free crops for poultry, cattle and pig feed. A letter from Sainsbury's head of food safety to a genetic testing laboratory in the United States, which the Independent on Sunday has obtained, shows that the company is actively pursuing a route to GM-free meat. The move follows rising fears about the development of antibiotic resistance from GM food which could arise from feeding GM crops to animals. Scientists have warned that GM crops containing an antibiotic resistance marker gene could harm our ability to fight fatal diseases such as meningitis, typhoid and Aids-related illnesses with penicillin. GM animal feed, containing crops grown in the United States, is used in Britain but there are no laws requiring it to be labelled as such. "We took the decision to remove GM ingredients from our own-brand products earlier this year because our customers wanted that," said a Sainsbury's spokesman. "The logical next step is to try to find GM-free animal feed. People want the meat they eat to be fed on non-GM feed." The Oxford Union will tomorrow debate a motion proposing that farm animals should not be fed GM material. The organisers of the debate say Monsanto, the genetic engineering compnay, withdrew from speaking on the GM animal issue "because it was afraid of losing". Jeff Rooker, the food safety minister, also declined to speak after his invitation was vetted by the office of Jack Cunningham, who has been pushing the Government's defence of GM food. Dr Arpad Pusztai, the scientist who sparked a furore over GM foods, will argue for a ban on GM animal feed. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 10:27:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25864 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA02655 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:39:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02651 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00DF5C3F@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 9:37:27 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 14 Jun 99 09:38:58 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 14 Jun 99 09:38:54 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: "Douglas M. Hinds" Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:38:54 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: <199906120016260730.0226308C@acnet.net> References: <1AF9B1873C6@agecon.uga.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1F289BC5002@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1264 Hi Douglas, I'm surprised to hear from you. > My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates that Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English c> > A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up no matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the same negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm> > On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > >Often times "sustainable" amounts to > >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > >the first place. > > What criteria are you applying to whether "something ought to be grown in a specific place"? Good question. Given the water, soil, temperature, humidity needs of the plant, is that available in a rational, sustainable way in the specific place? And given the needs of the land, is a particular plant and its characterists most appropriate to that place? Given that tomatoes (and nightshades in general) are native to the Americas, maybe this is a given for tomatoes in Brazil. Or maybe the altitude, water, or temperature issues are wrong in this particular place, Brazil being the humongous, diverse country that it is. Or maybe they're trying to farm the thin former soils of rain forest where maybe native forest species would be more appropriate (just guessing and imagining, I really don't know what are the most appropriate measures for former rain forest areas). Or maybe they are on eroded hillsides where permanent tree crops would be more appropriate than short cycle tomatoes. Or maybe its the wrong season for tomatoes, assuming they're not so close to the seasonless equator, making them weak and more prone to pests and disease. > >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. > > Could you do that for us? I'm sure there are others who are better equiped than I to do this, but the point is, whoever does this, most know much more about the conditions under which the tomatoes are being grown. My point is that we should not be so wedded to an idea that our minds are closed to other possiblities. What I am proposing is a greater openess to the appropriatness of agriculture and the needs of the land. Without this, people make absurd decisions like growing cattle where rain forest stands, or growing oranges in the California desert, or putting in cities on the Florida everglades, or having golf coarses in Las Vegas and Pheonix, or growing thousands of monocrop acres of the same thing year after year. > >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > >still like to make a comment. > > Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following supposition that was far from established: Yes, this was a philosophical contribution. Is that so wrong? > >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > >sustainablity steps have been taken > > I suggest that attention be given toward resolving the underlying problems, rather than supposing a given crop - in this case, a tropical fruit with a multitude of varieties that have adapted to a multitude of soil and climatic conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific place". I was not trying to say that it is the case that tomatoes cannot be grown in Brazil (that would be absurd) or even that they should not be grown in this particular place (I have no idea about this particular place). I agree that the first measure is to attend to "underlying problems" especially if they relate to soil fertility, natural seed selection, and plant combinations and rotations. Again, maybe a crop like tomatoes was not the best choice behind which to pin my philosophical point, but that doesn't make the philosophy any less valid. > Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant (to known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good place to start. The next step would be to contact the Bra> > Douglas Hinds > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a > >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless of > >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long > >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues > >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). > >> > >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to > >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, > >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to > >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of > >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to > >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't > >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are > >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be > >considered. > > > >Anita > > > > > >Anita Graf > >313-F Conner Hall > >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > >University of Georgia > >Athens, GA 30602-7509 > >(706) 542-1915 phone > >(706) 542-0739 fax > >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 11:14:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26819 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA07411 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:37:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA07318 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:32:43 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:32:00 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, danamex@mail.internet.com.mx, sekraft@siu.edu Subject: Re: Dioxin sourced; and PCBs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1265 The Poisoning of Michigan fiasco was made into a movie starring Dennis Weaver. Audubon (I think) had a really good -- and really scary -- writeup a couple/few years after the incident happened. In that case, it was a mixup in bagging the fire-retardant (including PCBs) in distinctive-looking feed bags after the factory ran out of fire retardant bags. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 11:46:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA27525 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA02380 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02370 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA09003; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990614111926.007ebdf0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:19:26 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, mailbox@gsenet.org From: Mark Subject: Re: Groundhogs! In-Reply-To: <199906121736.NAA06820@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1266 OK, this may not be everyone's cup of tea...but groundhogs/woodchucks can be deterred very effectively by human urine. I heard about this from an old timer, when I was complaining about them eating the foliage off my bean plants. I tried several "applications" around the bean patch and the woodchucks took off for parts unknown. Fortunately, my new garden is woodchuck free. So no need to run afoul of the neighbors or local authorities while applying my woodchuck deterrent! Mark P.S. Applying the deterrent is aided by consumption of several of your favorite brews. Inhibitions are lowered and output is greatly increased! ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 11:47:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA27533 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27343 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:09:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27218 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA08837; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990614111506.007cbe50@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:15:06 -0400 To: goodearth@rockbridge.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: Mis-labelling livestock in health food stores Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1267 Andy et al, We are working to get more local produce into local stores, including both small single store markets, food coops, supermarket chains and health food chains. One factor we encountered was the centralized distribution system of one chain. We want them to keep our local produce labeled locally; they buy items from all over, dump them into one bin at their warehouse and then distribute them to their stores. Thus our "local" produce will be blended into the piles of food from all over. This would not work for our purposes. However, I don't think you should give up after one call to a chain. Try to find individual department managers who support your product. They may have the leeway to bring in extra product that does not come from the centralized distribution system. If people like it and it starts selling, you may get a call from the chain warehouse managers. Also try to get in-store demonstrations and samples of your products. Get them into the hands (and mouths)of the consumer when they are about to do their shopping for the week. We are doing this with certain stores of the above mentioned chain. Good luck, Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 12:15:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28327 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA14847 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:37:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emerald.tufts.edu (pmdf@emerald.tufts.edu [130.64.1.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14783 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marla.tufts.edu (st7247.infonet.tufts.edu) by emerald.tufts.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #U3521) with SMTP id <0FDB00MP2Q21HX@emerald.tufts.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:37:15 -0400 From: Marla Rhodes Subject: Organic foods in school food service - request for info X-Sender: mrhodes1@emerald.tufts.edu To: comfood-l@sardonyx.tufts.edu, nefood-l@sardonyx.tufts.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990614113715.00818700@emerald.tufts.edu> X-Envelope-to: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1268 I spoke with Laura Walter from USDA FNS who asked that I forward her message to this list. Her request is below; it's addressed to school food service professionals but she's looking for information from anyone. Please reply to her directly: laura_walter@fns.usda.gov Thanks, Marla Rhodes Northeast Food System Partnership Subject: Use of Organic Foods in School Food Service Hello, As part of a District menu planning committee, I'm looking for any information you can share regarding schools that use organic produce, organic grains, etc. in NSLP (National School Lunch Program)food service operations. If you do use organic foods, which ones? What percentage of your food purchases do they represent? What are the barriers to using more organic foods? (Cost, availability, other issues?) Any information you can provide would be a big help! Thank you in advance for your responses. Laura Walter USDA Food and Nutrition Service Western Region laura_walter@fns.usda.gov ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Marla Rhodes Northeast Food System Partnership Information and Outreach Coordinator 617-627-5481 mrhodes1@emerald.tufts.edu Interested in sharing ideas and information about community food security and sustainable food systems in the Northeast? Sign up to the email group nefood-l. Send the message SUBSCRIBE NEFOOD-L YOUR NAME to the following address: listproc@listproc.tufts.edu Leave the subject line blank. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 15:41:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02890 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA14644 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:51:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA14533 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA11607 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-25.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.169]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA31993; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:53:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199906141853.NAA31993@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Kate Smith" Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: labels. Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:53:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1269 I would just like to make sure that people are aware of what they are buying. Just because a chain food store (or other store or farmer or.......) says animals should be raised humanely and without antibiotics doesn't mean they are walking the walk. Talk is very cheap in this country. In the end, I'm coming to the conclusion the only reliable way to get what you think you are is to buy directly at the farm. Is there another reliable method? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp ---------- > From: Kate Smith > To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com > Subject: labels. > Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 8:01 AM > > > We shop at Fresh Fields in Philadelphia. I'll ask my > husband who does our shopping to note the brands being > sold. > > What else do you want us to do? Kate > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 15:48:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02964 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA26429 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:10:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26411 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-5-29.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.29]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA32628; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:12:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199906141912.OAA32628@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Dr Maggi Linington" , Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1086 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:12:58 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1270 I would think high input and conventional could be used interchangeably. Best wishes, Greg ---------- > From: Dr Maggi Linington > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1086 > Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 8:51 AM > > Reply to Kathryn > > >I would like to point out that I am not an advocate of conventional > farming > > in any way - in fact I am a standards manager for an organic certification > > scheme > > I hate to split hairs on language use, but I think this is vital: > What is "conventional?" I would rather see a term like Maximum profit > farming or Highly intensified farming or Big business farming. I also > hate the word commercial: all farming has something to do with > commerce unless it is subsistance. Maybe a good term would be Hi-Tech > farming. > > > > > > - but whoever is putting out this scaremongering rubbish is simply > > playing into the hands of the multinational (not just american) companies > > who are working so hard to prevent the consumer finding out just what is in > > the food they eat. > > Hear Hear, A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.. I think these > people either have little knowledge, or if they are knowledgeable > they are extremists who have a passion to see a falsehood as a truth > or they have a hidden agenda i.e. they want to scare people into > buying their products etc. > > > kathryn > > > > > > Kathryn Marsh, Joint Standards Manager, Organic Trust, Tobersool, > > Balbriggan, Co Dublin, Ireland > > Phone 0353 1 841 3681 > > kmarsh@iol.ie > > > Dr MJ Linington > HEAD:Department Agricultural Sciences > email:lngtn-mj@acaleph.vista.ac.za > Snail Mail: Dept. Agricutural Sciences > VUDEC, Vista University > P/Bag X641, Pretoria, 0001 > Tel: 012 322 1303 > Fax: 012 322 3243 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 16:45:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04096 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA26548 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:59:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26493 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00DFB686@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:58:01 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 14 Jun 99 15:59:32 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 14 Jun 99 15:59:08 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:59:06 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Mis-labelling livestock in health food stores In-reply-to: <199906141638.MAA23940@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1F8E03E7C89@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1271 The last time I lived near to a Wild Oats outlet (6 mos ago), I remember that they had produce from local farms, and I even knew one of the suppliers. Maybe their managment is different and would offer more opportunities at present than Whole Foods? Anita > > Andy et al, > > We are working to get more local produce into local stores, including both > small single store markets, food coops, supermarket chains and health food > chains. One factor we encountered was the centralized distribution system > of one chain. We want them to keep our local produce labeled locally; they > buy items from all over, dump them into one bin at their warehouse and then > distribute them to their stores. Thus our "local" produce will be blended > into the piles of food from all over. This would not work for our purposes. > > However, I don't think you should give up after one call to a chain. Try > to find individual department managers who support your product. They may > have the leeway to bring in extra product that does not come from the > centralized distribution system. If people like it and it starts selling, > you may get a call from the chain warehouse managers. Also try to get > in-store demonstrations and samples of your products. Get them into the > hands (and mouths)of the consumer when they are about to do their shopping > for the week. We are doing this with certain stores of the above mentioned > chain. > > Good luck, > > Mark > - ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 18:50:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06235 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA24456 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:16:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA24395 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:16:00 -0500 Message-ID: <199906141713220030.061B7863@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <1F289BC5002@agecon.uga.edu> References: <1AF9B1873C6@agecon.uga.edu> <1F289BC5002@agecon.uga.edu> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:13:22 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA24397 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1272 On 14/06/99 at 9:38 AM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >Hi Douglas, >I'm surprised to hear from you. I responded in answer to a request for agricultural information on sanet, a list in which I have participated for a number of years, with a couple of hiatus'. Why would that surprise you? >> My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates that Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English c> >> A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up no matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the same negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm> >> On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >> >> >Often times "sustainable" amounts to >> >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >> >the first place. >> >> What criteria are you applying to whether "something ought to be grown in a specific place"? > >Good question. Given the water, soil, temperature, humidity needs of >the plant, is that available in a rational, sustainable way in the >specific place? And given the needs of the land, is a particular >plant and its characterists most appropriate to that place? My reply asked for further information. There was certainly insufficient information given to even suggest that anything other than appropriate technology was needed. >Given that tomatoes (and nightshades in general) are native to the >Americas, maybe this is a given for tomatoes in Brazil. Or maybe the >altitude, water, or temperature issues are wrong in this particular >place, Brazil being the humongous, diverse country that it is. Maybe this, maybe that. Maybe you should think before responding. >Or maybe they're trying to farm the thin former soils of rain forest >where maybe native forest species would be more appropriate Pure groundless speculation. >(just guessing and imagining, Why do that on sanet? >I really don't know what are the most >appropriate measures for former rain forest areas). I can believe that. >Or maybe they >are on eroded hillsides where permanent tree crops would be more >appropriate than short cycle tomatoes. Or maybe its the wrong season >for tomatoes, assuming they're not so close to the seasonless >equator, making them weak and more prone to pests and disease. Once again - pure speculation is both unprofessional and a waste of time and band width. >> >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. >> >> Could you do that for us? > >I'm sure there are others who are better equiped than I to do this, >but the point is, whoever does this, most know much more about the >conditions under which the tomatoes are being grown. That is exactly what I called for: More detailed information. >My point is >that we should not be so wedded to an idea that our minds are closed >to other possiblities. What I am proposing is a greater openess to >the appropriatness of agriculture and the needs of the land. Without >this, people make absurd decisions like growing cattle where rain >forest stands, or growing oranges in the California desert, or >putting in cities on the Florida everglades, or having golf coarses >in Las Vegas and Pheonix, or growing thousands of monocrop acres of >the same thing year after year. This has nothing to do with the question asked. Not all of us get paid to intervene on sanet. >> >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would >> >still like to make a comment. >> >> Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following supposition that was far from established: > >Yes, this was a philosophical contribution. Is that so wrong? No. Just bad philosophy. >> >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >> >sustainablity steps have been taken >> >> I suggest that attention be given toward resolving the underlying problems, rather than supposing > a given crop - in this case, a tropical fruit with a multitude of >varieties that have adapted to a multitude of soil and climatic >conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific place". > >I was not trying to say that it is the case that tomatoes cannot be >grown in Brazil (that would be absurd) or even that they should not >be grown in this particular place (I have no idea about this >particular place). Then what was the point of all this? >I agree that the first measure is to attend to >"underlying problems" especially if they relate to soil fertility, >natural seed selection, and plant combinations and rotations. Again, >maybe a crop like tomatoes was not the best choice behind which to >pin my philosophical point, but that doesn't make the philosophy any >less valid. I suggest you save it for proven and appropriate situation. >> Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant (to known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good place to start. The next step would be to contact the Bra> >> Douglas Hinds I'm sorry, but due to other real and pressing commitments, I can't promise to participate any further in relation to this pointless thread - unless it changes for better or worse. (Better to commend you, worse to reclaim the reclaimable). But for not more of the same irrelevancy. Douglas Hinds >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >> On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >> >> >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a >> >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless of >> >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long >> >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues >> >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). >> >> >> >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would >> >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to >> >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >> >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, >> >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to >> >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >> >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of >> >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to >> >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't >> >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are >> >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be >> >considered. >> > >> >Anita >> > >> > >> >Anita Graf >> >313-F Conner Hall >> >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >> >University of Georgia >> >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >> >(706) 542-1915 phone >> >(706) 542-0739 fax >> >agraf@agecon.uga.edu >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> >> >> > > >Anita Graf >313-F Conner Hall >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >University of Georgia >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >(706) 542-1915 phone >(706) 542-0739 fax >agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 19:37:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06764 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA29522 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:05:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA29518 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:04:34 -0500 Message-ID: <199906141801560980.0647F4AE@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80AA@10.248.CABI.ORG> References: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80AA@10.248.CABI.ORG> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:01:56 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA29519 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1273 Anton, To me, there's no difference between a "tomato fruit borer" and a "perforador del fruto del tomate" except the language. As a representative of CABI, you undoubtedly have access to those excellent but relatively expensive data bases. I suggest you consider demonstrating the value of subscribing to the rest of us (I myself am familiar with them), by posting one or two citations related to Neoleucinodes elegantalis as an example. Douglas Hinds *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 14/06/99 at 2:33 AM Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: >I found 31 hits on the CAB ABSTRACTS database since 1984 (I didn't check >earlier than that). Most papers refer to Neoleucinodes elegantalis >(Lepidoptera: Pyraustidae) as tomato fruit borer". > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] >> Sent: 12 June 1999 07:16 >> To: Anita Graf (Staff); sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >> Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems >> >> >> My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates that >> Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" >> (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given, >> which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American >> tropics and is not certainly a fungus. >> >> A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up no >> matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the same >> negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a >> weevil? >> >> On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >> >> >Often times "sustainable" amounts to >> >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >> >the first place. >> >> What criteria are you applying to whether "something ought to be grown in >> a specific place"? >> >> >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. >> >> Could you do that for us? >> >> >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would >> >still like to make a comment. >> >> Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic >> contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following >> supposition that was far from established: >> >> >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >> >sustainablity steps have been taken >> >> I suggest that attention be given toward resolving the underlying >> problems, rather than supposing a given crop - in this case, a tropical >> fruit with a multitude of varieties that have adapted to a multitude of >> soil and climatic conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific place". >> >> Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant (to >> known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good place >> to start. The next step would be to contact the Brazilian / Portuguese >> equivalent of a "Centro de Investigacion sobre Control Biologico" or a >> "Laboratorio de Reproducion de Organismos Beneficos", in order to >> determine what they've got or could breed for you. (You will probably >> have anticipate the pests that are likely to attack and contract the >> breeding of both preventive and remedial beneficial organisms, to order. >> And may have to contract a series of tests first, in order to determine >> which variety or strain of which organism will prove most effective). >> >> Douglas Hinds >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >> On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >> >> >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a >> >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless >> of >> >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long >> >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues >> >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). >> >> >> >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would >> >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to >> >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in >> >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, >> >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to >> >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic >> >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of >> >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to >> >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't >> >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are >> >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be >> >considered. >> > >> >Anita >> > >> > >> >Anita Graf >> >313-F Conner Hall >> >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics >> >University of Georgia >> >Athens, GA 30602-7509 >> >(706) 542-1915 phone >> >(706) 542-0739 fax >> >agraf@agecon.uga.edu >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 19:49:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06916 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA09064 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:18:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA09060 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.199] (li-ppp18.hevanet.com [204.119.60.199]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01646; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906142318.QAA01646@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:09:04 -0700 Subject: FW: "911 Calls" in Plants From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1274 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: "911 Calls" in Plants Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999, 7:09 AM NEWS RELEASE: In Plants, "Calling All Cells" Means Busy Electrical Circuits ---------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 14, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- BELTSVILLE, Md., June 14--Drought, an insect walking on a plant leaf, a friendly pat from a gardener: All can trigger the equivalent of a cellular "911 call" from a plant to literally all of its cells, warning them to prepare for defense, according to a scientist at USDA's Agricultural Research Service. The existence of such warning systems has been known for a long time, but no one knows how they work. Now, ARS plant molecular biologist Frank J. Turano reports the "cell phone network" may run along neural "lines" similar to those found in animals. "Plant cells respond to changes in their environment and warn distant parts of the plant of potential problems," said Turano. His preliminary studies at the ARS Climate Stress Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., are starting to unravel the molecular workings behind this cellular communication system. The research may lead to new tactics for strengthening crop plants' capacities to adapt, survive and thrive in different environmental conditions. Turano has identified and cloned a dozen genes that enable plants to make receptors similar to those found in animal nerves. Previously, only two plant genes of this type have been reported in the scientific literature. He believes that these receptors may be responsible for an electrical signaling system in plants. "Knowing where the receptor genes are the most active could help pin down the basic mechanism for cell-to-cell signaling that may be involved in plant growth and environmental responses," he said. Turano has also cloned plant genes that control glutamate and GABA--gamma- aminobutyric acid--levels in plants. Glutamate and GABA are two amino acids known to control neural signal transmission in animals. Turano speculates that plants beset by insects or other stresses may use glutamate or GABA to trigger a chain reaction by opening the receptor's "floodgate." A flood of ions passing through this gate may initiate an electrical signal. The signal may trigger a long distance cell-to-cell message that can warn and prepare the plant to defend itself. The signaling system will be explored under a cooperative research and development agreement between ARS and Auxein Corp. of Lansing, Mich. Turano will pursue the genetic and molecular studies, while Auxein scientists will concentrate on the physiological aspects of the system. ARS and Auxein are applying for patent protection on the genes and technology. ---------- Scientific contact: Frank J. Turano, ARS Climate Stress Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-5527, fax (301) 504-6626, fturano@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 21:15:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA07823 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA01700 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:39:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA01508 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d60-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.60]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA17480; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:38:18 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , , Subject: RE: looking for intercropping info Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:41:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000601beb6c7$ca6de760$3c3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <37609462.C37@chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1275 Friedemann wrote: >does anybody know of some good website with information about which garden plants like or dislike each other? A search, e.g. with AltaVista, for the term 'companion planting' returns good information, e.g. http://www.waushara.net/garden/companion.html http://www.waushara.net/garden/companion.html http://www.primenet.com/~tfcox/companio.htm http://www.lisa.hafey.org/Companion_Planting.html http://www.hitech.net.au/utegrrl/companio.htm http://www.dircon.co.uk/midnet/organic/compan.htm I think it is also important to have in mind also that these lists are compiled by people with understanding of different parts of the planet. At simplest, bananas have no effective companions in Helsinki. You need to add to the lists your own sense of what does well in your own locality, in your own soils. Tomatoes may appreciate asparagus as companions, but obviously you can grow tomatoes in shallower soil than you can grow asparagus. cheers Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 22:11:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09153 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA09862 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:36:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA09760 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:36:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA17967 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:35:47 -0500 Message-ID: <199906142033110390.06D27108@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <199906141853.NAA31993@billman.kuntrynet.com> References: <199906141853.NAA31993@billman.kuntrynet.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:33:11 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , "Kate Smith" Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: labels. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAA09773 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1276 On 14/06/99 at 1:53 PM Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: >I would just like to make sure that people are aware of what they are >buying. Just because a chain food store (or other store or farmer >or.......) says animals should be raised humanely and without antibiotics >doesn't mean they are walking the walk. >Talk is very cheap in this >country. In the end, I'm coming to the conclusion the only reliable way to >get what you think you are is to buy directly at the farm. Is there >another reliable method? I believe that reliable certification groups exist, for those that need them. If that is so, the problem is that consumers are not exercising their right (or their power) to have that certification demonstrated. They need to ask to see it. On the other hand, if locally grown products are involved, claims are both more easily verifiable and more easily denounced publicly or through legal channels. What you are doing here can certainly help. These things need to be brought out into the open. >Best wishes, >Greg Gunthorp Douglas Hinds >---------- >> From: Kate Smith >> To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com >> Subject: labels. >> Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 8:01 AM >> >> >> We shop at Fresh Fields in Philadelphia. I'll ask my >> husband who does our shopping to note the brands being >> sold. >> >> What else do you want us to do? Kate >> _________________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 14 22:11:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09163 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA11769 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:38:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pop01.globecomm.net (pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA11705 for ; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from canada.com (cr732335-a.lndn1.on.wave.home.com [24.114.13.83]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id VAA11212; Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3765AE7E.CA395362@canada.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:38:06 -0400 From: Chris Lanteigne Reply-To: chrisL@eharvest.com Organization: eHARVEST.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-compaq (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: looking for intercropping info References: <000601beb6c7$ca6de760$3c3325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1277 Dear Friedemann: Search for horticulture information on eHARVEST.com, the leading agri-search engine. This powerful tool allows you to access thousands of ag websites, including many concerning gardening. Visit http://www.eharvest.com and starting finding what you want today!! Sincerely, Chris Lanteigne Argall Family wrote: > Friedemann wrote: > > >does anybody know of some good website with information about which > garden plants like or dislike each other? > > A search, e.g. with AltaVista, for the term 'companion planting' returns > good information, e.g. > > http://www.waushara.net/garden/companion.html > > http://www.waushara.net/garden/companion.html > > http://www.primenet.com/~tfcox/companio.htm > > http://www.lisa.hafey.org/Companion_Planting.html > > http://www.hitech.net.au/utegrrl/companio.htm > > http://www.dircon.co.uk/midnet/organic/compan.htm > > I think it is also important to have in mind also that these lists are > compiled by people with understanding of different parts of the planet. At > simplest, bananas have no effective companions in Helsinki. You need to add > to the lists your own sense of what does well in your own locality, in your > own soils. Tomatoes may appreciate asparagus as companions, but obviously > you can grow tomatoes in shallower soil than you can grow asparagus. > > cheers > > Dennis > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 07:33:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA15311 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA25796 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vugon.vista.ac.za ([196.13.30.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA25619 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acaleph.vista.ac.za (acaleph.vista.ac.za [196.13.2.20]) by vugon.vista.ac.za (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09482 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:15:33 GMT Received: from FT/SpoolDir by acaleph.vista.ac.za (Mercury 1.21); 15 Jun 99 12:59:51 GMT+2 Received: from SpoolDir by FT (Mercury 1.21); 15 Jun 99 12:59:12 GMT+2 From: "Dr Maggi Linington" Organization: Vista University - Academic To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:58:34 GMT+2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Conventional or High Tech In-reply-to: <199906142210.SAA21397@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Message-ID: <32C31DC1621@acaleph.vista.ac.za> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1278 RE Conventional or High Tech Farming In reply to Greg who thinks they can be used interchangeably. Maybe in the US but here we have a lot of farmers who are definitely not High tech, also not organic but could be called conventional ( we subdivide them into a group called resource poor, but that is a subdivision) Let me suggest the following: Farming practise could possibly be grouped into three categories: 1. Conventional: uses normal farming practises, modernized a bit since Dad, but is still your country farmer type (this is the middle group). 2. Organic: they farm with only natural products, no pesticides etc etc They are to the "green or ecology" side of middle 3. High Tech: These guys use every new modern innovation possible, the latest growth stimulant, hybrid seed, milking device etc. They are the "modern" or "technological" side of middle I make this distinction since certain categories are more likely to farm in an unsustainable manner than others. I don't know about the US but here we have all 3 types of farmers, some of which could be classified as Sustainable agriculture and others not, and the classification is not necessarily dependent on which category they fall under. In my opinion: None of these three are necessarily bad or good, what makes good or bad is often the type of farming PRACTISE they exercise. (A lot of the organics will disagree, but then a lot of the other two disagree with the concepts that their methods are bad). When we talk about sustainable agriculture we should be careful to get our definitions correct. Sustainable does not equal organic only. Sustainability may be regarded as a process of change where the exploitation of resources is integrated with environmental concerns in order to enhance the potential of the resource to meet future human need. A sustainable agricultural system is one in which the goal is permanence (dynamic not static) is achieved through the utilization of renewable resources. Agricultural chemicals and mechanization still have a place, but also the use of green manuring, rotation with legumes and organic wastes (Poincelot, 1986 "Towards a more sustainable agriculture" Organic farming is a specific system of farming, the aim of which is to produce food of optimum quality in a manner beneficial to the environment and wildlife. Essentially it prohibits the use of synthetic chemicals, fertilisers, pesticides and herbicides. Farming is practised in accordance with organic standards which have been formulated for horticultural crops, cereals, grass and the production of livestock and products in farming (Dept Agric and food, Ireland) It seems to me that this list focuses mainly on organic and equated that form of farming to sustainable. In this country and hopefully elsewhere sustainable has a wider meaning than organic. Issues that I would have loved to have seen discussed would have been problems in helping resource poor farmers to become sustainable and factors that play a role, or similar questions and debates. My 2 cents (south african) Dr MJ Linington HEAD:Department Agricultural Sciences email:lngtn-mj@acaleph.vista.ac.za Snail Mail: Dept. Agricutural Sciences VUDEC, Vista University P/Bag X641, Pretoria, 0001 Tel: 012 322 1303 Fax: 012 322 3243 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 09:20:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16729 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA02241 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:29:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from bridge.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02107 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:29:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by bridge.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA26473 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:33:28 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05110 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:29:52 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 15 Jun 99 14:25:36 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 15 Jun 99 14:25:22 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:25:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Organic Forum: "Keeping it 'Organic' opens the organic Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <49DFF805319@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1279 Erorganic@aol.com wrote: >OFPA defines appropriate "processing" practices: "The term >"processing" means cooking, baking, heating, drying, mixing, >grinding, churning, separating, extracting, cutting, fermenting, >eviscerating, preserving, dehydrating, freezing, or otherwise ^^^^^^^^^^ >manufacturing, and includes the packaging, canning, jarring, or ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >otherwise enclosing food in a container." >We note the definition does not include a catch all phrase like >"and other (un-described) food manufacturing and processes." whoever may be "we": i would certainly call "otherwise manufacturing" a "catch- all". the question may be as old as the moon, but do you think the word "organic" really to be the right word to explain to consumers the philosophy behind ? >"We believe that "retaining the integrity" there we have ONE possibility : "integrated" for example would be much more comprehensive. but i guess, it would be too late for a name change. people already have a (more or less vague) image of "organic" farming. and if i were an "organic" farmer, i would not vote for a cementing and fixing terms up to the extreme, like here: >As soon as food produced on organic farms loses its original >wholeness and complexity or is combined with other ingredients >that were not produced on such farms, then such food should no >longer be called "organic." consumers would not understand the fine difference between "organic" and "made with organic ingredients" and i guess, you would never be able to define the term "wholeness" nor make a difference between a "complex food" and a "less complex one". so sooner or later you would run in difficulties in a discussion with the consumer. result: you would end up with the same result as with no exactly fixed definition of "organic". though consumers only have a vague image of the term, they know very well, what they would accept and what not. example: i know an organic farm only some miles away from here, who would fulfill EVERY condition for certification (and in fact is certified), but the owner keeps his cows under such dirty conditions in the stable, that, once i had seen this, i would never in my lifetime buy anything from him. and i guess, i'm not so much different from others in my common sense and my dignity for animals. and that is, what consumers are rewarding, when they buy "organic". klaus --------------- klaus wiegand +-[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]-----+ | | | verstehen: | | sich eine Frage stellen, die durch das, | | was man versteht, genau beantwortet wird. | +-----------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 10:09:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17634 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA08439 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:30:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from guppy.pond.net (guppy.pond.net [205.240.25.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08397 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ddecou (pAp55.pond.net [207.149.187.55]) by guppy.pond.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id GAA15377 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990615063240.007d9e30@pond.net> X-Sender: ddecou@pond.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:32:40 -0700 To: sanet From: David DeCou Subject: Re: Mislabeling Livestock in Health Food Stores In-Reply-To: <19990614011608050.AAA279@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.49]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1280 At 09:19 PM 6/13/99 -0400, Patricia Foreman wrote: >Greg Gunthorp's query regarding mislabeling livestock in health food stores >Sanet-mg-digest #1085. > >Recently I called the largest whole foods store in my area (17 stores in 5 >state region) to see if I could sell them organic, free range poultry. The >meat counter manager told me he already had organic chickens available. When >I asked "who from" he named two poultry producers that are confinement >broiler houses in Pennsylvania. I gently asked who certified them? > >At the same whole foods health food store I left messages for the three >produce buyers, explaining that I want to supply their 17 stores with >organic, free range broilers, eggs and turkeys. None of the three returned >my phone calls. I hope that you did not leave messages for the PRODUCE buyers because they do not work in the meat or dairy Departments. Stores are typically divided up and as busy as many of the department heads are they might not bother to pass a message between departments without personal contact. >Not too long ago I attended a organic grain symposium where the main speaker >was from a large whole foods chain. The speaker lamented several times that >they really, really prefer to buy locally, but they simply can't find any >farmers. Contrary to what that speaker said, I think these big whole food >stores won't carry local OR organic produce if it means they have to deal >with someone other than the wholesale broker. > >Has anyone else out there had similar experiences? > >Sincerely, > >Andy Lee >Good Earth Farm >1702 Mountain View Road >Buena Vista, Virginia 24416 >Phone and Fax 540-261-8775 > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 10:37:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18234 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA00664 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00552 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:05:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from the-network-asy-20.rutgers.edu (the-network-asy-20.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.20]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA22976 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:56:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: the-network-asy-20.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.20] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <3766851D.6972@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:53:49 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: Re: Mislabeling Livestock in Health Food Stores, local agricultural products Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1281 >Not too long ago I attended a organic grain symposium where the main speaker >was from a large whole foods chain. The speaker lamented several times that >they really, really prefer to buy locally, but they simply can't find any >farmers. Contrary to what that speaker said, I think these big whole food >stores won't carry local OR organic produce if it means they have to deal >with someone other than the wholesale broker. > >Has anyone else out there had similar experiences? I have made a pasttime out of going into large chain stores and asking the produce mangers about their "certified organic" produce. Often, the certifier's logo and name is right on the package, so I am asking more to find out what they know than the information itself. I have yet to find a produce manager who even knows what I am talking about, I did find one employee, not the manager (in the last 12 months) who did know what I meant and cheerfully went and got the original crate for me. I have seen big signs which say "third party certified" but it is crystal clear that nobody in the store has a clue about what that means or which "third party" may have done the deed. It is most unsatisfactory. On the other hand, Where I shop for produce, the wonderful Whole Earth Center in Princeton, NJ, I am certain that not only the management but probably every single employee could answer such a simple question. They always have produce from local farms and make a point of telling you where everything is from with their signage so you don't have to go looking. LM To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 11:02:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18859 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06143 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:12:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06135 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:08:38 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'Dr Maggi Linington'" Subject: RE: Conventional or High Tech Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:08:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1282 i agree with linington's comments, and would suggest further that there can be a high technology version of organic . . . it doesn't use the synthetic chemicals or gmo's that some high tech non-organic farmers use, but it may use (1) a lot of refined monitoring of animal, plant, soil and environmental characteristics; (2) very specific natural substances (e.g., biorational pesticides); and (3) very complex manipulation and management of the environment (e.g., introduced pest predators) cheers, craig craig k harris dept of sociology 429b berkey hall michigan state university east lansing michigan 48824-1111 u.s.a. t: 517-355-5048 f: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Dr Maggi Linington > Sent: Tuesday, 15 June, 1999 08:58 > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Conventional or High Tech > > RE Conventional or High Tech Farming > > In reply to Greg who thinks they can be used interchangeably. > Maybe in the US but here we have a lot of farmers who are definitely > not High tech, also not organic but could be called conventional ( > we subdivide them into a group called resource poor, but that is a > subdivision) Let me suggest the following: Farming practise could > possibly be grouped into three categories: > > 1. Conventional: uses normal farming practises, modernized a bit > since Dad, but is still your country farmer type (this is the middle > group). > > 2. Organic: they farm with only natural products, no pesticides etc > etc They are to the "green or ecology" side of middle > > 3. High Tech: These guys use every new modern innovation possible, > the latest growth stimulant, hybrid seed, milking device etc. They > are the "modern" or "technological" side of middle > > I make this distinction since certain categories are more likely to > farm in an unsustainable manner than others. I don't know about > the US but here we have all 3 types of farmers, some of which could > be classified as Sustainable agriculture and others not, and the > classification is not necessarily dependent on which category they > fall under. > > In my opinion: None of these three are necessarily bad or good, what > makes good or bad is often the type of farming PRACTISE they > exercise. (A lot of the organics will disagree, but then a lot of the > other two disagree with the concepts that their methods are bad). > > When we talk about sustainable agriculture we should be careful to > get our definitions correct. Sustainable does not equal organic only. > > Sustainability may be regarded as a process of change where the > exploitation of resources is integrated with environmental concerns > in order to enhance the potential of the resource to meet future > human need. A sustainable agricultural system is one in which the > goal is permanence (dynamic not static) is achieved through the > utilization of renewable resources. Agricultural chemicals and > mechanization still have a place, but also the use of > green manuring, rotation with legumes and organic wastes (Poincelot, > 1986 "Towards a more sustainable agriculture" > > Organic farming is a specific system of farming, the > aim of which is to produce food of optimum quality in a manner > beneficial to the environment and wildlife. Essentially it prohibits > the use of synthetic chemicals, fertilisers, pesticides and > herbicides. Farming is practised in accordance with organic standards > which have been formulated for horticultural crops, cereals, grass > and the production of livestock and products in farming (Dept Agric > and food, Ireland) > > It seems to me that this list focuses mainly on organic and equated > that form of farming to sustainable. In this country and hopefully > elsewhere sustainable has a wider meaning than organic. Issues that I > would have loved to have seen discussed would have been problems in > helping resource poor farmers to become sustainable and factors that > play a role, or similar questions and debates. > > My 2 cents (south african) > > Dr MJ Linington > HEAD:Department Agricultural Sciences > email:lngtn-mj@acaleph.vista.ac.za > Snail Mail: Dept. Agricutural Sciences > VUDEC, Vista University > P/Bag X641, Pretoria, 0001 > Tel: 012 322 1303 > Fax: 012 322 3243 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 11:24:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19498 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19756 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:36:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp (root@chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp [133.50.192.99]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19708 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from friedepc.agr.hokudai.ac.jp (friedepc.agr.hokudai.ac.jp [133.50.193.22]) by chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp (8.8.7+2.7Wbeta7/3.6W) with SMTP id XAA29949; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:51:51 +0900 Message-ID: <3767467B.6B63@chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:38:51 -0700 From: Friedemann Greulich Reply-To: friede@chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp Organization: Hokudai X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: AGRISYNERGY@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: results: looking for intercropping info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1283 Dear Agrisynergists and Sanet-people, thank you all for the many helpful replies. The most useful advice came of course from cool climates like Winnipeg (Canada) or Ireland. (Special thanks to Pat Elazar and Ute Bohnsack.) I have put the collected companion-planting-links at the bottom of my agricultural links page at http://www.voicenet.co.jp/~friede/fg-agr.htm#complant warm regards (from the still cool Hokkaido) Friedemann -- Dr. Friedemann Greulich, Hokkaido Univ., Fac. of Agriculture Japan, 060-8589 Sapporo, Kita-ku, Kita 9 Nishi 9 Tel.: (+81-11) 706-3349, Fax: ...-2505, priv. Tel./Fax: 614 3099 e-mail: friede@chem.agr.hokudai.ac.jp homepage: http://www.agr.hokudai.ac.jp/bioorg/friede/friede.htm privat: http://www.voicenet.co.jp/~friede/fg.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 11:25:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19523 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA23633 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:41:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA23578 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn59tc5.gdinet.com [156.46.27.60]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21818 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:41:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:41:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906151441.JAA21818@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: Thought on WI Milk Marketing Board Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1284 Hi, I thought it very interesting that the State wants to do something constructive for dairy farmers. I have a few suggestions, you may take them for what they are worth. One is to focus research on low input pasture based dairy. The dairy farmer trying to produce as much milk as possible with the latest technologies, invariably find themselves with huge overhead and operating expenses. I often wonder if research is promoting big business, manufacturing and drug companies or farming. The unfortunate answer seems to be, to contribute to the concept of an ever expanding economy, as judged by economic indicators (GAP) that in no way separate good from bad results. As long as moneys change hands, it is considered good. Another thought is to set up a small scale dairy processing plant, similar to what has been developed in Israel. These would allow farmers to process and market there products locally and direct. It would allow for neighborhood coops to form and cooperate in a form that is consistent with sustainable concepts based on local production and market. Finally look into the regulations that are meant to protect public health, but often set in place standards that eliminate the sovereignty of a small farmer to control the destiny of himself and his produce. Surely the standards in place that allow for drugs and pesticides to be in our dairy products are not consistent with the intentions the standards were meant to set. Take the meat industry for instance, look at the contamination that occurs there. I don't think the answer to that is irradiation or greater centralization. Perhaps a review of the regulations to see how the concentration and vertical integration in our food production systems can be divested to local production and marketing is a worthy goal for the State's examination of farmer profitability. Thanks for listening, Greg David Prairie Dock Farm (920) 261-4292 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 11:48:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20003 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01859 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:06:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01777 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28708 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990615101248.007d6180@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:12:48 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: labels. In-Reply-To: <199906142210.SAA21397@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1285 At 06:10 PM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote: > I would just like to make sure that people are aware of what they are >buying. Just because a chain food store (or other store or farmer >or.......) says animals should be raised humanely and without antibiotics >doesn't mean they are walking the walk. Talk is very cheap in this >country. In the end, I'm coming to the conclusion the only reliable way to >get what you think you are is to buy directly at the farm. Is there >another reliable method? Greg, I think people should know what they are buying and be able to trust what they are buying. But I would be wary of making broad statements calling into question claims about products unless you have evidence that they are not what they appear. This kind broad based mistrust is a double edged knife. I have been at board meetings (for an organization I serve) where people have fought against investing funds in a socially responsible investment portfolio because "you never really know if they are doing what they say they are doing." This was a nationally known and widely acclaimed fund. Yet we could not muster enough support for it because of this rather baffling level of mistrust. So now the funds are going to be invested in tobacco and firearms manufacturers, something no one really wants to do. I have also seen farmers call into question other farmers' practices and spread rumors about them. They spent a lot of time discredting someone who is working hard and then their accusations ended up being false. The only reliable method is to either buy from a farm whose practices you know intimately, or to trust that an independent agency has certified them, or to trust the label. And as we have seen in Belgium, there are times when a lack of trust is warranted. Trust, but trust wisely. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 13:06:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21708 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA01774 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:48:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01767 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.144] (br-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.144]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA27864; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906151548.IAA27864@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:29:35 -0700 Subject: FW: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1286 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel Date: Tue, Jun 15, 1999, 6:35 AM NEWS RELEASE: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 15, 1999 Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- PEORIA, Ill., June 15--To help speed the development of biodiesel fuels made with vegetable oils, scientists at USDA's Agricultural Research Service here have adapted a sophisticated tool known as near-infrared spectroscopy, or NIR. Baby-boomers remember the lines at gas stations when the oil embargo of the 1970's hit. Despite the oil shortage, America's farm tractors continued to roll because of USDA research that turned vegetable oils into alternative fuels. The trend will continue in the 21st century, when motorists will see more public vehicles--buses, trains, trucks, and government-owned maintenance equipment--running on biodiesel fuels made from soybean oil. By the year 2001, the Federal Energy Policy Act requires that 75 percent of all new state and federal vehicles be filled with alternative fuels. Until now, the standard for measuring biodiesel quality has been a complex analytical method called gas chromatography, or simply GC. "But GC is a complex piece of laboratory equipment, requiring technical expertise and at least an hour to perform," said Gerhard H. Knothe, an ARS chemist in Peoria, Ill. Another drawback of GC is it requires chemical reagents and solvents that need special handling and costly disposal. Knothe has developed a safer and faster way to check the quality of biodiesel fuel by using NIR. Much of the pioneering work on biodiesel fuels began where Knothe works, at ARS' National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research. "NIR is a nifty tool also used for determining fatty acid composition in vegetable oils and oil content in seeds," said Knothe. Another plus: No special training is needed to perform the NIR test. The researchers are developing the method for more effective production monitoring and fuel quality control, improvements needed by the biodiesel producers. Biodiesel producers need to know early if the chemical reactions that occur during biodiesel fuel production are successful. Using NIR, Knothe can measure the conversion of vegetable oil to biodiesel fuel in less than a minute. NIR coupled with a fiber-optic probe uses light rather than chemicals to perform the analysis. Checking the biodiesel fuel quality is important because potential contaminants in the fuel could lead to engine deposits. "Our test will help biodiesel fuel producers determine if their products meet the quality standards of the American Society for Testing and Materials," Knothe said. -------- Scientific contact: Gerhard H. Knothe, Oil Chemical Research Unit, ARS National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., phone (309) 681-6417, fax (309) 681-6340, knothegh@mail.ncaur.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 13:37:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22461 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27605 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:28:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27539 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:27:28 -0500 Message-ID: <199906151124290320.000D8602@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <49DFF805319@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> References: <49DFF805319@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:24:29 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "Dr Maggi Linington" Subject: Re: Organic Forum: "Keeping it 'Organic' opens the organic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA27550 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1287 >whoever may be "we": i would certainly call "otherwise >manufacturing" a "catch- all". True >the question may be as old as the moon, but do you think the word >"organic" really to be the right word to explain to consumers the >philosophy behind ? "Organic" is precisely a consumer oriented word and whoever controls its use wields power over what has come to be an important niche market, that's growing faster than the "conventional one". That fact had a lot (too much, I would say), to do with the way OFPA was written. The results of that fact are simple: OFPA as it is presently written won't fly, legally; particularly in it's attempt to suppress diversity and above all, obligate certification. If those drafting OFPA had dedicated themselves to developing a legal definition of what "organic" consists of in practice (NOT in marketing, which is best left to those involved in the transaction itself and consumers are perfectly capable of getting discrepancies called to account - as the thread started recently by Greg Gunthrup demonstrates - and this should be diffused and publicized more widely), this would have given consumers a valuable tool to make sure the minimal national guidelines set down in OFPA were met (assuming a valid organic rule comes out of it) - whether the products involved were certified or not certified, which is one more option among others that must stand on it's own merit like anything els! e - a further element of defined choice. Klaus is correct in that the word "organic" is not at present a well defined label with a philosophy behind it and that is exactly where both certifiers, individual growers, public interest groups and perhaps others will continue to make known their own concepts of what agriculture and food are or should be all about. It may be pertinent to point out that Growing, Distributing and Eating are all social acts. The last just happens to occur within an interspecies framework. The above also has a bearing on Dr Maggi Linington's post. Sustainable goes beyond organic in concept but the markets in the U.S. and probably Europe - the principle markets at present for eco-ag products, sprang from what was known over the years as organic. Hopefully, someday this will change and all agriculture will become sustainable, as consumers are able to demonstrate to their lawmakers and in the marketplace that anything less is unacceptable. This will happen. How soon depends on all of us. Douglas Hinds Nothing new follows On 15/06/99 at 2:25 PM Klaus Wiegand wrote: >Erorganic@aol.com wrote: > >>OFPA defines appropriate "processing" practices: "The term >>"processing" means cooking, baking, heating, drying, mixing, >>grinding, churning, separating, extracting, cutting, fermenting, >>eviscerating, preserving, dehydrating, freezing, or otherwise > ^^^^^^^^^^ >>manufacturing, and includes the packaging, canning, jarring, or >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>otherwise enclosing food in a container." > >>We note the definition does not include a catch all phrase like >>"and other (un-described) food manufacturing and processes." > >whoever may be "we": i would certainly call "otherwise >manufacturing" a "catch- all". > >the question may be as old as the moon, but do you think the word >"organic" really to be the right word to explain to consumers the >philosophy behind ? > > >>"We believe that "retaining the integrity" > >there we have ONE possibility : "integrated" for example would be >much more comprehensive. but i guess, it would be too late for a >name change. people already have a (more or less vague) image of >"organic" farming. and if i were an "organic" farmer, i would not >vote for a cementing and fixing terms up to the extreme, like here: > > >>As soon as food produced on organic farms loses its original >>wholeness and complexity or is combined with other ingredients >>that were not produced on such farms, then such food should no >>longer be called "organic." > >consumers would not understand the fine difference between >"organic" and "made with organic ingredients" and i guess, you would >never be able to define the term "wholeness" nor make a difference >between a "complex food" and a "less complex one". so sooner or >later you would run in difficulties in a discussion with the >consumer. result: you would end up with the same result as with no >exactly fixed definition of "organic". though consumers only have >a vague image of the term, they know very well, what they would >accept and what not. example: i know an organic farm only some >miles away from here, who would fulfill EVERY condition for >certification (and in fact is certified), but the owner keeps his >cows under such dirty conditions in the stable, that, once i had >seen this, i would never in my lifetime buy anything from him. and >i guess, i'm not so much different from others in my common sense >and my dignity for animals. and that is, what consumers are >rewarding, when they buy "organic". > > > >klaus > > > --------------- > klaus wiegand > > > +-[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]-----+ > | | > | verstehen: | > | sich eine Frage stellen, die durch das, | > | was man versteht, genau beantwortet wird. | > +-----------------------------------------------+ > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 13:37:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22471 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27522 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:28:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27452 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:27:21 -0500 Message-ID: <199906151124220350.000D6AA6@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80B4@10.248.CABI.ORG> References: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80B4@10.248.CABI.ORG> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:24:22 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" , "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Agricultural Data Bases Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA27466 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1288 Anton, I understand "relatively expensive" to mean that access is not free of charge. There ARE other databases that provide abstracts that CAN be accessed free of charge, some of which will charge for sending you the article itself, if you choose to have them do that for you. (You are free to procure the article by other means and incur no charge in simply reviewing the abstracts). However, as I had mentioned below, one of the best of those showed no matches for Neoleucinodes elegantalis and this emphasizes the highly specialized nature of the CAB abstracts, as well as the depth of the contributing sources. Once again, my emphasis was on the word "relatively" and I myself consider CAB a basic (and perhaps indispensable, for those that have the resources available) source of technical information related to agriculture. While we're on the topic, perhaps others on this list might care to provide URL's for other sources of Agricultural Abstracts. As stated, my CAB bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms was the only agriculturally specific source I tried that even mentioned "Neoleucinodes elegantalis". The other source was an altavista search, the results of which were manageable mainly due to scarce material available. Furthermore, procuring the articles cited there may or may not prove to be a problem - the source of each short note (not an abstract, certainly), for each one would have to be followed up through other channels - through the original source or perhaps a library. I personally believe that the resources CAB offers stand on their own merit and Anton has demonstrated this by producing the abstracts of what appear to be some very interesting articles (i.e. the effects of pyrethroid insecticides, the influence of different types of mulches on the incidence of dam! aged fruit and the Studies on the resistance of determinate tomato cultivars to the small fruitworm Neoleucinodes elegantalis). At present, I can access the CAB data bases through one of the governmental agencies for whom it is a basic tool here. In the not so distant future, our plans include subscribing ourselves directly and this will undoubtedly permit an increased use of what CAB has to offer. Two things occur to me at present: Perhaps Anton would care to comment further on the mechanism for procuring the actual articles mentioned in CAB abstract databases, and perhaps others of you would be willing to share a few of your own valuable database resources with the rest of us. Douglas Hinds *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 15/06/99 at 4:02 AM Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: >Dear All, > >As requested by Douglas, here are some records from the CAB ABSTRACTS >database on control of Neoleucinodes elegantalis, with emphasis on >non-chemical methods of control. > >With regard to cost, which is cheaper: losing an entire tomato crop or >spending a few dollars to search a good quality database to get the >information needed to take preventive measures? The CABI databases are not >expensive, but good value for money. We cover the world's agricultural >literature (about 10000 serial titles, 1000s of books and conferences, >totalling about 165,000 abstracts each year). CABI has invested a great deal >of money and worked hard over the last few years to improve the quality of >the database too, making it one of the best available. CABI also funds four >research institutes, with stations in the UK, Caribbean, Kenya, Malaysia, >Switzerland, and Pakistan. Most of the research is done in developing >countries. CABI also has an Information for Development program, mainly >funded by sponsorship. > >To see what CABI has available in the pest control area, please go to >http://pest.cabweb.org/ > >AU: Haji, F. N. P.\ Alencar, J. A. de.\ Prezotti, L. >TI: Principal pests of tomato and alternatives for control. >FT: Principais pragas do tomateiro e alternativas de controle. >PB: Petrolina, Brazil; Empresa Brasileira de Pesquisa Agropecuaria, Centro >de > Pesquisa Agropecuaria do Tropico Semi-Arido (CPATSA) >YR: 1998 >PP: 50 pp. >LA: Es >AA: Doutora em Entomologia, Pesquisadora, Embrapa - Centro de Pesquisa > Agropecuaria do Tropico Semi-Arido, Caixa Postal 23, 56300-000, > Petrolina, PE, Brazil. > > >AU: Raetano, C. G.\ Oliveira Guassu, C. M. de\ Crocomo, W. B. >TI: Efficiency of pyrethroid insecticides for the control of tomato fruit > borer Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, 1854) - Lepidoptera - > Pyralidae. >FT: Eficiencia de inseticidas piretroides no controle da broca pequena do > tomateiro - Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, 1854) - >Lepidoptera > - Pyralidae, em tomate estaqueado. >JN: Cientifica (Jaboticabal) >YR: 1993 >VL: 21 >NO: 1 >PP: 197-202 >AA: Departamento de Defesa Fitossanitaria, Faculdade de Ciencias >Agronomicas, > UNESP, 18600 000 Botucatu, SP, Brazil. > >AU: Oliveira, A. M. de\ Cruz, C. A. da\ Santos, J. B. dos >TI: Influence of different types of mulches on the incidence of damaged >fruit > by Neoleucinodes elegantalis on tomato plants. >FT: Influencia de diferentes tipos de cobertura do solo na incidencia de > frutos brocados por Neoleucinodes elegantalis em tomateiro. >JN: Comunicado Tecnico - Empresa de Pesquisa Agropecuaria do Estado do Rio >de > Janeiro >YR: 1990 >VL: 203 >NO: 1-2 >AA: Eng. Agr., Pesquisadora da PESAGRO-RIO/Estacao Esperimental de Nova > Friburgo, Praca Getulio Vargas, 196 s/1, 28.614 Nova Friburgo, >RJ, > Brazil. > >AU: Moreira, J. O. T.\ Lara, F. M. >TI: Studies on the resistance of determinate tomato cultivars to the small > fruitworm (Neoleucinodes elegantalis Guenee 1954). >FT: Estudos sobre a resistencia de cultivares de tomateiro de crescimento > determinado a incidencia de Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, > 1854), broca pequena dos frutos. >JN: Relatorio, Faculdade de Ciencias Agrarias e Veterinarias, Jaboticabal >YR: 1982 >NO: Sub projeto 11 >PP: 52 pp. >AA: Universidade Estadual Paulista, Jaboticabal, SP, Brazil. > >========================================== >Anton Doroszenko, Team Leader, Field Crops >CAB International, Wallingford, Oxon, OX10 8DE, UK. >Tel: +44-1491-829366 Fax: +44-1491-833508 >E-mail: a.doroszenko@cabi.org >Web: http://www.cabi.org/ http://www.cabweb.org/ >========================================== > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] >> Sent: 15 June 1999 01:02 >> To: Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) >> Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >> Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems >> >> >> Anton, >> >> To me, there's no difference between a "tomato fruit borer" and a >> "perforador del fruto del tomate" except the language. As a >> representative of CABI, you undoubtedly have access to those excellent but >> relatively expensive data bases. I suggest you consider demonstrating the >> value of subscribing to the rest of us (I myself am familiar with them), >> by posting one or two citations related to Neoleucinodes elegantalis as an >> example. >> >> Douglas Hinds >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >> On 14/06/99 at 2:33 AM Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: >> >> >I found 31 hits on the CAB ABSTRACTS database since 1984 (I didn't check >> >earlier than that). Most papers refer to Neoleucinodes elegantalis >> >(Lepidoptera: Pyraustidae) as tomato fruit borer". >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] >> >> Sent: 12 June 1999 07:16 >> >> To: Anita Graf (Staff); sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >> >> Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems >> >> >> >> >> >> My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates >> that >> >> Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" >> >> (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given, >> >> which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American >> >> tropics and is not certainly a fungus. >> >> >> >> A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up >> >>no matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the >> >>same negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a >> >> weevil? >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 13:48:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22771 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA20564 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:03:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s-ext.ufrrj.br (server1.ufrrj.br [200.11.1.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20405 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: lena@ufrrj.br Received: (from uucp@localhost) by s-ext.ufrrj.br (8.9.2/8.9.2) id OAA63462; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:03:10 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from lena@ufrrj.br) Message-Id: <199906151703.OAA63462@s-ext.ufrrj.br> Received: from dynamic.ufrrj.br(200.11.4.62), claiming to be "lena.ufrrj.br" via SMTP by s-ext.ufrrj.br, id smtpdW63454; Tue Jun 15 14:03:07 1999 To: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:49:16 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: more info for the question of tomatoes CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1289 Date sent: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:32:40 -0600 (MDT) To: lena@ufrrj.br From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Re: more info for the question of tomatoes Nathan, I am testing 3 cultivars (all are the unstaked type, which are supposed to be more resistant to various pests and diseases). The expirament will be on a plot of land designated to organic agriculture over the past 10 years or more? Thanks for the advice. Lena > Dear Lena, > > It seems like you should also experiment with different tomato > varieties. There will be a range of natural resistance to these diseases > and pests in different cultivars. In addition, are you experimenting on > land that is under organic management and is healthy? Trials on > conventionally managed land with unhealthy soil will make it difficult to > understand the true relationships, the effectiveness of your treatments and > the reponse of the plants > > Good luck! > > > Nathan Boone > Agricultural Consultant > 200-B Callecita Place > Santa Fe, NM 87501 > Tel: 505.992.0649 > Fax: 508.302.7761 > Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 14:00:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23004 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA20816 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:04:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s-ext.ufrrj.br (server1.ufrrj.br [200.11.1.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20625 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:03:58 -0400 (EDT) From: lena@ufrrj.br Received: (from uucp@localhost) by s-ext.ufrrj.br (8.9.2/8.9.2) id OAA63464; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:03:10 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from lena@ufrrj.br) Message-Id: <199906151703.OAA63464@s-ext.ufrrj.br> Received: from dynamic.ufrrj.br(200.11.4.62), claiming to be "lena.ufrrj.br" via SMTP by s-ext.ufrrj.br, id smtpdO63454; Tue Jun 15 14:03:08 1999 To: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:49:16 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems cont. CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80AA@10.248.CABI.ORG> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1290 Date sent: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:33:45 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems To: "'Douglas M. Hinds'" , "Anita Graf (Staff)" , sanet- mg@ces.ncsu.edu This sounds about right. There is apparently a small borer (more problematic) and a large borer. How can I get ahold of these CAB Asbracts from here? Is there access over the internet? Also, to add to the discussion. The area for planting is in the state of Rio de Janeiro on a plot of land that has been used for organic expiramentally agriculture (at the UFRRJ) for at least 10 years?? The area is lowland with hot, humid and rainy summers and cool, dry winters. I can check on the soil type if anyone is interested. Lena > I found 31 hits on the CAB ABSTRACTS database since 1984 (I didn't check > earlier than that). Most papers refer to Neoleucinodes elegantalis > (Lepidoptera: Pyraustidae) as "tomato fruit borer". > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] > > Sent: 12 June 1999 07:16 > > To: Anita Graf (Staff); sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > > Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems > > > > > > My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates that > > Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" > > (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given, > > which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American > > tropics and is not certainly a fungus. > > > > A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up no > > matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the same > > negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a > > weevil? > > > > On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > > > >Often times "sustainable" amounts to > > >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > > >the first place. > > > > What criteria are you applying to whether "something ought to be grown in > > a specific place"? > > > > >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. > > > > Could you do that for us? > > > > >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > > >still like to make a comment. > > > > Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic > > contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following > > supposition that was far from established: > > > > >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > > >sustainablity steps have been taken > > > > I suggest that attention be given toward resolving the underlying > > problems, rather than supposing a given crop - in this case, a tropical > > fruit with a multitude of varieties that have adapted to a multitude of > > soil and climatic conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific place". > > > > Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant (to > > known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good place > > to start. The next step would be to contact the Brazilian / Portuguese > > equivalent of a "Centro de Investigacion sobre Control Biologico" or a > > "Laboratorio de Reproducion de Organismos Beneficos", in order to > > determine what they've got or could breed for you. (You will probably > > have anticipate the pests that are likely to attack and contract the > > breeding of both preventive and remedial beneficial organisms, to order. > > And may have to contract a series of tests first, in order to determine > > which variety or strain of which organism will prove most effective). > > > > Douglas Hinds > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > > > On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > > > >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight is a > > >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, regardless > > of > > >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long > > >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues > > >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). > > >> > > >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > > >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to > > >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > > >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, > > >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to > > >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > > >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of > > >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to > > >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't > > >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are > > >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be > > >considered. > > > > > >Anita > > > > > > > > >Anita Graf > > >313-F Conner Hall > > >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > > >University of Georgia > > >Athens, GA 30602-7509 > > >(706) 542-1915 phone > > >(706) 542-0739 fax > > >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > > command > > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 14:08:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23168 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA20219 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:03:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s-ext.ufrrj.br (server1.ufrrj.br [200.11.1.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20003 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:03:28 -0400 (EDT) From: lena@ufrrj.br Received: (from uucp@localhost) by s-ext.ufrrj.br (8.9.2/8.9.2) id OAA63465; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:03:10 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from lena@ufrrj.br) Message-Id: <199906151703.OAA63465@s-ext.ufrrj.br> Received: from dynamic.ufrrj.br(200.11.4.62), claiming to be "lena.ufrrj.br" via SMTP by s-ext.ufrrj.br, id smtpdN63454; Tue Jun 15 14:03:07 1999 To: "Wilson, Dale" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:49:16 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: more info for the question of tomatoes CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDA0@vela.phibred.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1291 From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'lena@ufrrj.br'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: more info for the question of tomatoes Date sent: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:28:02 -0500 Calda Vicosa is a modified version of Calda Bordelesa which has been used by brazilians for all sorts of crops for decades. The concentrations are low enough that it is considered non-toxic. Same with the other one. Lena > Lena, > > > A second expirament will look at the effect of two foliar > > applications on requiema: 1) is "Calda de Vicosa" - a solution > > of copper sulfate, magnesuim sulfate, zinc sulfate, boric > > acid, Cal, and water. 2) is sulfer calcium - solution of sulfer, > > hidrated Cal. These solutions are being used as alternatives to the > > toxic fungicides available. My question is: Are these really > > alternatives? I do not have the chemistry background or information > > available as to their toxicity. > > Salts of copper and zinc are far more toxic than most commercial fungicides > and less effective. Boric acid and salts are toxic too, especially to > plants. > > Dale > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 14:26:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA23614 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA20546 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:03:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s-ext.ufrrj.br (server1.ufrrj.br [200.11.1.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20392 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: lena@ufrrj.br Received: (from uucp@localhost) by s-ext.ufrrj.br (8.9.2/8.9.2) id OAA63463; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:03:10 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from lena@ufrrj.br) Message-Id: <199906151703.OAA63463@s-ext.ufrrj.br> Received: from dynamic.ufrrj.br(200.11.4.62), claiming to be "lena.ufrrj.br" via SMTP by s-ext.ufrrj.br, id smtpdZ63454; Tue Jun 15 14:03:08 1999 To: "Douglas M. Hinds" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:49:16 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Growing Tomatoes in Brazil CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: <199906121220220250.00696090@acnet.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA20493 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1292 Date sent: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:20:22 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "Lena Miller" Subject: Growing Tomatoes in Brazil Thanks to all for your help and discussion! Lena > > Lena, > > These leads also look promising regarding non a non toxic (or relatively non toxic) means of controlling Neoleucinodes elegantalis. We have a Brazilian Reseach Unit, a Biology of Organisms lab in Venezuela, the use of pheromones (there must be pheromone hormones available for it then) and a pyrethrum (plant based) class pesticide (the last two - in English & Portuguese), all found in relation to Neoleucinodes elegantalis. If the Trichogramma works, that would be my choice. > > Happy follow up. > > Douglas Hinds > > > http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&q=%22Neoleucinodes+elegantalis%22&stq=10&c9k > > > 12. Embrapa - Semi-rido - Agricultura > News, links and information on the Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation - Embrapa's 37 res earch units, two services and 15 central units.... > URL: www.cpatsa.embrapa.br/projsub.html > Last modified 18-Dec-98 - page size 36K - in Portuguese [Translate] > > 14. Solange Issa Ponce > DRA. SOLANGE ISSA P. Direccin: Laboratorio de Comportamiento. Departamento de Biologa de Organi smos. Universidad Simn Bolvar. Apdo. 89000. Caracas... > URL: atta.labb.usb.ve/solange.htm > Last modified 27-Nov-98 - page size 7K - in Spanish [Translate] > > 18. Eiras > THE USE OF SEX PHEROMONES FOR MONITORING THE TOMATO FRUIT BORER NEOLEUCINODES ELEGANTALIS GUENEE (LEPIDOPTERA: PYRALIDAE) A E Eiras1, A Cabrera 2, G... > > URL: www.ifs.se/Workshops/NP_Research_LatAm_1997/Eiras.htm > Last modified 9-Feb-99 - page size 3K - in English (Win-1252) [Translate] > > 19. BAYER - Proteo das Plantas > Turbo The Champ. New insecticide with a Betacyflutrin base, from the pyrethrum class with 50g of active ingredient per liter, with trans isomer... > URL: www.bayer.com.br/protplan/english/prod9.htm > Last modified 2-Mar-99 - page size 9K - in English [Translate] > > 20. BAYER - Proteo das Plantas > Turbo O campeo. Novo inseticida base de Betacyflutrin, da classe dos piretrides com 50g de in grediente ativo por litro, com predominncia dos ismeros. > URL: www.bayer.com.br/protplan/prod9.htm > Last modified 20-Apr-99 - page size 9K - in Portuguese [Translate] > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 14:50:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24278 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA17858 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:01:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umx-mail01.missouri.edu (umx-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.221]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA17151 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umx-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:57:21 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: "'sanet'" , "'Juli Brussell'" , "'direct-mkt@reeusda.gov'" , "'SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu'" , "'ncsmfarm-list@lists.ces.uwex.edu'" , veg-prod@reeusda.gov, "'naos'" , UM UOE CAFNR , "'sustainag'" Cc: "Darden, Troy" , "Ebodaghe, Denis" Subject: National Small Farm Conference Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:00:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1293 Sorry for any cross postings but wanted to be sure that everyone gets to see this. Conference announcements for the Second National Small Farm Conference are available now. If you would like to have a copy mailed to you, please email either Troy Darden (dardent@lincolnu.edu) or myself (Debi Kelly, kellyd@umsystem.edu) or you can access the registration form on the web at: http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc Second National Small Farm Conference THEME: Building Partnerships for the 21st Century WHERE: Regal Riverfront Hotel, St. Louis, MO WHEN: October 12-15, 1999 HOSTS: Lincoln University, Jefferson City, Missouri; University of Missouri-Columbia; USDA-CSREES The Second National Small Farm Conference will provide an opportunity for people in the public and private sectors, including community based organizations, land-grant institutions, small and medium sized farmers to strengthen collaboration and partnerships to work more effectively with the small farm community. Participation is the key to the conference's success. Hands-on workshops, open forum discussions, and participant-organized networking sessions will be key features of the conference. Some of the issues that participants will address include: marketing strategies, value added enterprises, grant writing, business and entrepreneurial skills, farmer-to-farmer and beginning farmer networks. SPONSORS: Lincoln University, Jefferson City; University of Missouri-Columbia; W. K. Kellogg Foundation; Farm Foundation; U.S. Environmental Protection Agency;U.S. Department of Agriculture--Agricultural Research Service; Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service, Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program; Farm Service Agency; Foreign Agricultural Service; Forest Service; National Office of Outreach; National Agricultural Statistics Service; Natural Resources Conservation Service; and Rural Development. Ask me about the 2nd National Small Farm Conference October 12-15, 1999 St Louis MO http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc debi kelly MAC Ms. Troy S. Darden, AEIC, 301 Allen Hall, Lincoln University, PO Box 29, Jefferson City, MO, 65102-0029, PH: 573-681-5587, F: 573-681-5546, dardent@lincolnu.edu Debi Kelly, Project Manager, Missouri Alternatives Center, University of Missouri, 531 Clark Hall, Columbia, MO 65211, 573-882-1905, 800-433-3704 (MO only), kellyd@umsystem.edu, http://agebb.missouri.edu/mac "There's no need to sustain the farm if there's no family to be sustained upon it." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 14:54:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24345 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA23998 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:03:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23986 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) id <01JCFDB1MLB4000EO7@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:50:41 PDT Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JCEZ3QNZY8000816@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:07:50 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:07:50 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:02:23 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems To: "'Douglas M. Hinds'" , "Doroszenko, Anton (CABI)" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80B4@10.248.CABI.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1294 Dear All, As requested by Douglas, here are some records from the CAB ABSTRACTS database on control of Neoleucinodes elegantalis, with emphasis on non-chemical methods of control. With regard to cost, which is cheaper: losing an entire tomato crop or spending a few dollars to search a good quality database to get the information needed to take preventive measures? The CABI databases are not expensive, but good value for money. We cover the world's agricultural literature (about 10000 serial titles, 1000s of books and conferences, totalling about 165,000 abstracts each year). CABI has invested a great deal of money and worked hard over the last few years to improve the quality of the database too, making it one of the best available. CABI also funds four research institutes, with stations in the UK, Caribbean, Kenya, Malaysia, Switzerland, and Pakistan. Most of the research is done in developing countries. CABI also has an Information for Development program, mainly funded by sponsorship. To see what CABI has available in the pest control area, please go to http://pest.cabweb.org/ AU: Haji, F. N. P.\ Alencar, J. A. de.\ Prezotti, L. TI: Principal pests of tomato and alternatives for control. FT: Principais pragas do tomateiro e alternativas de controle. PB: Petrolina, Brazil; Empresa Brasileira de Pesquisa Agropecuaria, Centro de Pesquisa Agropecuaria do Tropico Semi-Arido (CPATSA) YR: 1998 PP: 50 pp. LA: Es AA: Doutora em Entomologia, Pesquisadora, Embrapa - Centro de Pesquisa Agropecuaria do Tropico Semi-Arido, Caixa Postal 23, 56300-000, Petrolina, PE, Brazil. AU: Raetano, C. G.\ Oliveira Guassu, C. M. de\ Crocomo, W. B. TI: Efficiency of pyrethroid insecticides for the control of tomato fruit borer Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, 1854) - Lepidoptera - Pyralidae. FT: Eficiencia de inseticidas piretroides no controle da broca pequena do tomateiro - Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, 1854) - Lepidoptera - Pyralidae, em tomate estaqueado. JN: Cientifica (Jaboticabal) YR: 1993 VL: 21 NO: 1 PP: 197-202 AA: Departamento de Defesa Fitossanitaria, Faculdade de Ciencias Agronomicas, UNESP, 18600 000 Botucatu, SP, Brazil. AU: Oliveira, A. M. de\ Cruz, C. A. da\ Santos, J. B. dos TI: Influence of different types of mulches on the incidence of damaged fruit by Neoleucinodes elegantalis on tomato plants. FT: Influencia de diferentes tipos de cobertura do solo na incidencia de frutos brocados por Neoleucinodes elegantalis em tomateiro. JN: Comunicado Tecnico - Empresa de Pesquisa Agropecuaria do Estado do Rio de Janeiro YR: 1990 VL: 203 NO: 1-2 AA: Eng. Agr., Pesquisadora da PESAGRO-RIO/Estacao Esperimental de Nova Friburgo, Praca Getulio Vargas, 196 s/1, 28.614 Nova Friburgo, RJ, Brazil. AU: Moreira, J. O. T.\ Lara, F. M. TI: Studies on the resistance of determinate tomato cultivars to the small fruitworm (Neoleucinodes elegantalis Guenee 1954). FT: Estudos sobre a resistencia de cultivares de tomateiro de crescimento determinado a incidencia de Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, 1854), broca pequena dos frutos. JN: Relatorio, Faculdade de Ciencias Agrarias e Veterinarias, Jaboticabal YR: 1982 NO: Sub projeto 11 PP: 52 pp. AA: Universidade Estadual Paulista, Jaboticabal, SP, Brazil. ========================================== Anton Doroszenko, Team Leader, Field Crops CAB International, Wallingford, Oxon, OX10 8DE, UK. Tel: +44-1491-829366 Fax: +44-1491-833508 E-mail: a.doroszenko@cabi.org Web: http://www.cabi.org/ http://www.cabweb.org/ ========================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] > Sent: 15 June 1999 01:02 > To: Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) > Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems > > > Anton, > > To me, there's no difference between a "tomato fruit borer" and a > "perforador del fruto del tomate" except the language. As a > representative of CABI, you undoubtedly have access to those excellent but > relatively expensive data bases. I suggest you consider demonstrating the > value of subscribing to the rest of us (I myself am familiar with them), > by posting one or two citations related to Neoleucinodes elegantalis as an > example. > > Douglas Hinds > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 14/06/99 at 2:33 AM Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: > > >I found 31 hits on the CAB ABSTRACTS database since 1984 (I didn't check > >earlier than that). Most papers refer to Neoleucinodes elegantalis > >(Lepidoptera: Pyraustidae) as tomato fruit borer". > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] > >> Sent: 12 June 1999 07:16 > >> To: Anita Graf (Staff); sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > >> Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems > >> > >> > >> My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates > that > >> Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" > >> (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given, > >> which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American > >> tropics and is not certainly a fungus. > >> > >> A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up > no > >> matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the > same > >> negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a > >> weevil? > >> > >> On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > >> > >> >Often times "sustainable" amounts to > >> >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > >> >the first place. > >> > >> What criteria are you applying to whether "something ought to be grown > in > >> a specific place"? > >> > >> >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. > >> > >> Could you do that for us? > >> > >> >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > >> >still like to make a comment. > >> > >> Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic > >> contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following > >> supposition that was far from established: > >> > >> >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > >> >sustainablity steps have been taken > >> > >> I suggest that attention be given toward resolving the underlying > >> problems, rather than supposing a given crop - in this case, a tropical > >> fruit with a multitude of varieties that have adapted to a multitude of > >> soil and climatic conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific place". > >> > >> Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant > (to > >> known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good > place > >> to start. The next step would be to contact the Brazilian / Portuguese > >> equivalent of a "Centro de Investigacion sobre Control Biologico" or a > >> "Laboratorio de Reproducion de Organismos Beneficos", in order to > >> determine what they've got or could breed for you. (You will probably > >> have anticipate the pests that are likely to attack and contract the > >> breeding of both preventive and remedial beneficial organisms, to > order. > >> And may have to contract a series of tests first, in order to determine > >> which variety or strain of which organism will prove most effective). > >> > >> Douglas Hinds > >> > >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >> > >> On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > >> > >> >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight > is a > >> >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, > regardless > >> of > >> >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long > >> >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues > >> >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). > >> >> > >> >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > >> >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to > >> >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > >> >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, > >> >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to > >> >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > >> >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of > >> >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to > >> >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't > >> >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are > >> >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be > >> >considered. > >> > > >> >Anita > >> > > >> > > >> >Anita Graf > >> >313-F Conner Hall > >> >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > >> >University of Georgia > >> >Athens, GA 30602-7509 > >> >(706) 542-1915 phone > >> >(706) 542-0739 fax > >> >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > >> > > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > >> command > >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 15:09:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA24741 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA04361 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:20:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA04341 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990615182321.17520.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:23:21 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:23:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Monsanto/Government Revolving Door To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1295 And the worm continues to turn... Jun 14 1999 9:17AM SOURCE: Reuters Financial News Service Monsanto (MTC) Searle unit hires former FDA man CHICAGO, June 14 (Reuters) - Pharmaceutical company G. D. Searle & Co., a division of Monsanto Co., said Monday that it named Michael Friedman, M.D., senior vice president, clinical affairs, effective in July. Friedman was most recently at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, serving in a variety of roles, including acting commissioner. He will be responsible for directing strategy and implementation of clinical research. Searle said Friedman will support the management of its entire portfolio of clinical research products, and expedite the development of novel, value-added therapeutics. In addition, he will advise and facilitate the development of nutritional products within Monsanto's Life Sciences program. Friedman's appointment follows the retirement of John Alexander, M.D., who has led Searle's worldwide clinical trial development programs since 1991. The most recent clinical development success resulted in the December 1998 approval of Celebrex, which has had more than five million prescriptions written to date since its launch earlier this year. ((--Chicago Equities News at 312 408 8787, chicago.equities.newsroom@reuters.com)) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 15 20:07:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA01680 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA25913 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:06:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA25795 for ; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.152] (dial152.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.152]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12169; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: More follow-up on rodents and hantavirus Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1296 Dear Sanet, A fellow saneter emailed me and said that wild deer mice were not the only carriers of the hantavirus. A web search revealed the following information from The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) at: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hanta/hps/textonly2/publicp1.htm Here are the rodents that carry the types of hantavirus that cause HPS in the United States: The deer mouse (Peromyscus maniculatus) is a deceptively cute animal, with big eyes and big ears. Its head and body are normally about 2 - 3 inches long, and the tail adds another 2 - 3 inches in length. You may see it in a variety of colors, from gray to reddish brown, depending on its age. The underbelly is always white and the tail has sharply defined white sides. The deer mouse is found almost everywhere in North America. Usually, the deer mouse likes woodlands, but also turns up in desert areas. The cotton rat (Sigmodon hispidus), which you'll find in the southeastern United States (and way down into Central and South America), has a bigger body than the deer mouse-head and body about 5 - 7 inches, and another 3 - 4 inches for the tail. The hair is longer and coarser, of a grayish brown color, even grayish black. The cotton rat prefers overgrown areas with shrubs and tall grasses. The rice rat (Oryzomys palustris) is slightly smaller than the cotton rat, having a head and body 5 - 6 inches long, plus a very long, 4- to 7-inch tail. Rice rats sport short, soft, grayish brown fur on top, and gray or tawny underbellies. Their feet are whitish. As you might expect from the name, this rat likes marshy areas and is semiaquatic. It's found in the Southeastern United States and into Central America. The white-footed mouse (Peromyscus leucopus) is hard to distinguish fom the deer mouse. The head and body together are about four inches long. You should note that its tail is normally shorter than its body (about 2 - 4 inches long). Topside, its fur ranges from pale brown to reddish brown, while its underside and feet are white. The white-footed mouse is found through southern New England, the Mid-Atlantic and Southern states, the Midwest and into the western states and Mexico. It prefers wooded and brushy areas, although sometimes it will live in more open ground. Sometimes, the "country mouse" becomes a "city mouse" Both the deer mouse and the cotton rat are usually in rural areas, but can also be found in cities when conditions are right, such as easy availability of food, water and shelter. Other rodents may also carry hantavirus It appears that other rodents carrying strains of hantavirus that cause HPS are yet to be identified. In addition, yet other rodent species play host to other types of hantaviruses that cause a different type of infection, hemorrhagic fever with renal syndrome, or HFRS. It is wise, therefore, to avoid close contact with rodents in general. ---end Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 00:52:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04486 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA23935 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:17:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA23926 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool044-cvx.ds50-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.143.44]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10087; Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37668FC5.49C3AED4@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:39:17 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: labels. References: <3.0.6.32.19990615101248.007d6180@crocker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1297 Love one another. It has always worked where tried, but not often tried.=================== Mark wrote: > At 06:10 PM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > I would just like to make sure that people are aware of what they are > >buying. Just because a chain food store (or other store or farmer > >or.......) says animals should be raised humanely and without antibiotics > >doesn't mean they are walking the walk. Talk is very cheap in this > >country. In the end, I'm coming to the conclusion the only reliable way to > >get what you think you are is to buy directly at the farm. Is there > >another reliable method? > > Greg, > > I think people should know what they are buying and be able to trust what > they are buying. But I would be wary of making broad statements calling > into question claims about products unless you have evidence that they are > not what they appear. This kind broad based mistrust is a double edged > knife. I have been at board meetings (for an organization I serve) where > people have fought against investing funds in a socially responsible > investment portfolio because "you never really know if they are doing what > they say they are doing." This was a nationally known and widely acclaimed > fund. Yet we could not muster enough support for it because of this rather > baffling level of mistrust. So now the funds are going to be invested in > tobacco and firearms manufacturers, something no one really wants to do. I > have also seen farmers call into question other farmers' practices and > spread rumors about them. They spent a lot of time discredting someone who > is working hard and then their accusations ended up being false. > > The only reliable method is to either buy from a farm whose practices you > know intimately, or to trust that an independent agency has certified them, > or to trust the label. And as we have seen in Belgium, there are times > when a lack of trust is warranted. Trust, but trust wisely. > > Mark > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 06:05:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA07100 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA11932 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:13:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA11928 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d50-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.50]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA19770; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:12:19 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Lon J. Rombough" , "SANET" , "AGRISYNERGY" Subject: RE: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:15:25 +1000 Message-ID: <000401beb7d8$c4d895e0$323325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199906151548.IAA27864@hevanet.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1298 Where canola oil is added to diesel fuel in Europe [at 30%], some vehicle manufacturers approve, others advise that their existing fuel systems will be corroded by vegetable oils, and parts would need replacing to use the new fuel.. Interesting that vehicle manufacturers warn vehicle users of the tendency of vegetable oils to rancidify, but general medical opinion is that they are a good thing in humans. Rancidification occurs at room temperature, more so at body temperature, where they inhibit respiration and promote lipid peroxidation. Perhaps when there is a bigger market for such oils in machines, there will be less marketing of them to people. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 13:28:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15622 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16273 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:48:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16213 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.214] (br-ppp08.hevanet.com [198.5.254.214]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA21529; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906161448.HAA21529@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:52:36 -0700 Subject: FW: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: AGRISYNERGY , SANET , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1299 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999, 7:06 AM NEWS RELEASE: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants ---------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 16, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- MORRIS, Minn., June 16--Gardeners and farmers who are used to checking the N-P-K (nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium) levels on their fertilizer bags may someday be checking N-P-K-V levels in their soil. That's V for vanadium. Vanadium "impersonates" phosphorus and can confuse a plant into eating it instead of phosphorus. That can cause the plant to experience a phenomenon akin to that of people who eat junk food in place of a nutritious meal, reports soil scientist Alan F. Olness with the USDA's Agricultural Research Service. "The hunger goes away but the nutrients never arrive," said Olness, with ARS' North Central Soil Conservation Research Laboratory in Morris, Minn. "Phosphorus is an essential nutrient plants need for growth. But vanadium, a trace element abundant in soils throughout the world, is useless to many plants, including corn, soybean, tomatoes, Impatiens and petunias." Olness plans to study different soil types this summer to see if there is any relationship between soil type and high vanadium content. "During a growing season," he said, "plants may have only two or three time windows during which they can take in phosphorus. If they fill up on vanadium instead, they miss out on phosphorus, because their root cells can't tell them apart. Their growth and development--and yields--suffer. The more vanadium, the more the plant slows down and the lower the yield. For ornamentals, the slowdown could result in less beauty and hardiness." Vanadium captured Olness' interest about a decade ago, when he discovered that it mysteriously reduces soybean yields. "Studying the vanadium effect has been some of the most exciting work of my career," said Olness, who has worked as an ARS soil scientist for 32 years. In the past 3 years, he and colleagues have confirmed earlier work showing t hat plants do confuse this little-known soil trace element with phosphorus. Plants may not be the only organisms misled by vanadium. "Vanadium may be the missing element causing lapses in the accuracy of soil phosphorus recommendations given to farmers and gardeners," Olness said. Standard soil tests don't measure vanadium. Ten years ago, Olness developed a test that does. It also measures the ratio of vanadium to soil phosphorus and other nutrients. Olness said this test could be used to recalculate phosphorus recommendations. The optimum economic amounts of phosphorus would have to be re-determined through research. Scientists would have to consider the soil's ratio of vanadium to phosphorus when they correlate phosphorus concentrations with plant growth. "This could lead to higher phosphorus recommendations in soils that are very high in vanadium--probably over 150 parts per million," Olness said. "But it could also lower phosphorus recommendations in soils with low levels, perhaps under 100 ppm. "And the test can identify soils so high in vanadium that it wouldn't be economical to add the high levels of phosphorus required to boost yields. In that case, the farmer or gardener might want to switch to a crop that needs less phosphorus or a crop variety that blocks or neutralizes vanadium within the plant." There's even hope for the vanadium-befuddled soybean, according to Olness. "We know vanadium 'immunity' can be bred into plants, because we found a soybean variety that is rather unaffected by vanadium. This provides us with hope we can extend the ability of this variety to other crops. One of the next steps is to determine how this variety is controlling vanadium." He plans to expand his soil testing to other states in the Mississippi River Valley. He also plans to develop a phosphorus advisory so farmers can account for the vanadium effect. ---------- Scientific contact: Alan E. Olness, ARS North Central Soil Conservation Research Laboratory, Morris, Minn., phone (320) 589-3411, fax (320) 589-3787, aolness@mail.mrsars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 13:43:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16043 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA02060 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:59:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA01723 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA09604; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:58:51 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma008354; Wed, 16 Jun 99 10:58:02 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:58:02 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDA8@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: SANET Subject: Biodiesel Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:58:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1300 Dennis, I just got back from a canola workshop, and am psyched about the plasticity of this crop. I am wondering if anybody on the list has had experience with biodiesel. > Where canola oil is added to diesel fuel in Europe [at 30%], > some vehicle manufacturers approve, others advise that their > existing fuel systems will be corroded by vegetable oils, > and parts would need replacing to use the new fuel. I thought the big problem was carbonization in the injectors. I believe one can transesterify vegetable oil in your garage to make methyl esters of fatty acids, a more thermally stable fuel than triglycerides. > Interesting that vehicle manufacturers warn vehicle users of > the tendency of vegetable oils to rancidify.. With new oilseed varieties low in polyunsaturates, oxidation and gum formation should be less of a hazard. I am sure that as oil prices climb in the next few decades, biodiesel will become an important fuel. Oilseeds could be bred specifically for this use. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 13:43:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16063 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06312 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:03:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06287 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:06:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Ann Carey'" , Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?USDA_Advisory_Committee_Openings=A0_URGENT?= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:06:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1301 SANet: There are openings on three key USDA advisory committees, for your information. Details below. Please use contact information listed below for more information. 1) <> Biotech Advisory Committee Closing Date July 7, 1999 POSTMARKED 2) <> Small Farm Advisory Committee Closing Date June 25, 1999 RECEIVED 3) <>REE Advisory Board Closing Date June 25, 1999 RECEIVED <> Biotech Advisory Committee Closing Date July 7, 1999 POSTMARKED USDA Secretary Dan Glickman announced the formation of a new advisory committee to explore policy issues that arise from the "creation, application, trade, and use of agricultural biotechnology." The committee will have 25 members, at least 20 of whom will come from outside the federal government. From the Federal Register notice (available under the Agriculture Dept. listings at http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/fedreg/a990607c.html "Members of ACAB should have recognized expertise in one or more of the following areas: Recombinant-DNA (rDNA) research and applications using plants; rDNA research and applications using animals; rDNA research and applications using microbes; food science; silviculture and related forest science; fisheries science; ecology; veterinary medicine; the broad range of farming or agricultural practices; weed science; plant pathology; small farm advocacy; biodiversity issues; applicable laws and regulations relevant to agricultural biotechnology policy; risk assessment; consumer advocacy and public attitudes; public health/epidemiology; occupational health; ethics, including bioethics; human medicine; biotechnology industry activities and structure; intellectual property rights systems; and international trade. Members will be selected by the Secretary of Agriculture in order to achieve a balanced representation of viewpoints to address effectively USDA biotechnology policy issues under consideration." Nominees will need to submit the following by July 7, 1999: 1) a brief summary (2 page max.) of qualifications; 2) a current resume; 3)a completed form AD-755 (available online at http://www.usda.gov/oce/osfsd/advisorynotice.htm as well as from the SAC office and from Diane Harmon, Office of Pest Management Policy, 202-720-3191, e-mail dharmon@ars.usda.gov ). MSAWG members should send copies of their nomination information to Dave Butcher, MSAWG Grassroots Coordinator, at davidb@uslink.net . The designated USDA contact for information is Michael Schechtman, Office of the Deputy Secretary, 202-720-3817, fax 202-690-4265, e-mail miachael.g.shechtman@usda.gov for more information and receipt of nominations. <> Small Farm Advisory Committee Closing Date June 25, 1999 RECEIVED USDA will form a 15 member Advisory Committee on Small Farms in order to gather and analyze information on small farms and ranches in the U.S. and recommend actions to the Secretary to enhance the viability of these operations. The committee is explicitly intended to continue the work of the National Commission on Small Farms, and to "ensure" the implementation of the Commissions recommendations in "A Time To Act." >From the June 10, 1999 Federal Register notice (also available at http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/fedreg/a990610c.html "Members will represent small farms and ranches, and the diverse groups USDA programs serve, including but not limited to, finance, commerce, conservation, cooperatives, nonprofit organizations, rural communities, academia, state and local governments, Native Americans, farm workers, and other interests as the Secretary determines." Nominations should include: name, title, address, telephone number, and organization, and may be submitted by e-mail to adrain@nass.usda.gov or faxed to 202-690-4915. Form AD-755 is required, and is available online at http://www.usda.gov/oce/osfsd/advisorynotice.htm as well as from the SAC office and from USDA. Questions or nominations should be directed to Alfonzo Drain, Deputy Director of Small Farms, Office of the Chief Economist, USDA, Room 112-A Jamie L. Whitten Building, 1400 Independence Avenue SW, Washington, D.C. 20250-3810, telephone 202-720- 3238, fax 202-690-4915, e-mail adrain@nass.usda.gov and must be received by June 25, 1999. <>REE Advisory Board Closing Date June 25, 1999 RECEIVED The 1996 Farm Bill authorizes the creation of the National Agricultural Research, Extension, Education and Economics Advisory Board, which has operated since 1996. Because members serve for staggered, three-year terms, ten slots on the Board will be vacant as of September, 1999. These positions are: Farm Cooperatives Plant Commodity Producers National Aquaculture Associations National Food Science Associations National Nutritional Science Societies Land-Grant Colleges and Universities 1862 Scientific Community not closely associated with Agriculture An Agency of USDA lacking research capabilities Research Agency of the Federal Government other than USDA National Organization directly concerned with REE Nominations should include: name, title, address, telephone number, and organization, and submitted to the Office of the Advisory Board, Research, Education and Economics, Room 3918 South Building, Washington, D.C. 20250-2255. Form AD- 755 is also required, and is available online at http://www.usda.gov/oce/osfsd/advisorynotice.htm as well as from the SAC office and from USDA. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 14:54:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA17833 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA15249 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:53:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15152 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d64-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.64]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA10432; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 03:53:28 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Wilson, Dale" , "SANET" Subject: RE: Biodiesel Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 03:56:33 +1000 Message-ID: <001f01beb821$91a9abc0$403325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDA8@vela.phibred.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1302 Dale wrote >I am sure that as oil prices climb in the next few decades, biodiesel will become an important fuel. Oilseeds could be bred specifically for this use. another friend, Ray Peat, [ http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/ ] to whom I passed the original information on this has commented to me: >Then, Monsanto will discover that biodiesel fuel is better for human health than soybean oil. >Agricultural economists have said that modern methods use at least five calories of petroleum to produce one calorie of food. Producing the fuel oil from soybean oil would take additional energy. Using, e.g., ten gallons of petroleum to produce one gallon of diesel wouldn't be economical, unless the oil companies have come around to the idea that petroleum is being regenerated faster than we can use it. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 17:35:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21665 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03056 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:47:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03035 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:47:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Twittman@aol.com Received: from Twittman@aol.com (7984) by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7RJAa13875 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <953ac0a.249966ff@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:45:51 EDT Subject: FOOD FOR THOUGHT--A VIDEO ABOUT GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOOD To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1303 FOOD FOR THOUGHT--A VIDEO ABOUT GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOOD Do you know.that many of the foods on our supermarket shelves--including most of the soy, corn, and canola products--are geneticaly engineered? Do you know.that scientists are crossing species that would never breed in nature, such as tomatoes and fish, or toads and potatoes? How do you feel about eating genetically altered food that is actually a pesticide? None of these genetically engineered foods are tested or labeled by the government, yet many of us are unknowingly eating them every day. European countries are rejecting what many people are branding as "Frankenfoods". Here, in the U.S., the situation will only get worse until the American public demands the right to know which foods have been genetically altered. Are the genetic changes that are being engineered into thousands of foods safe? What are the movtives behind genetic engineering of our foods...? ...to help the human race? ...or to increase the profits of large multi-national corporations? FOOD FOR THOUGHT, a 30-minute video by award-winning director Ed Schehl describes the ethical concerns,the threats to organic farming, and the potential health hazards of genetically engineered foods. Consumer advocates, organic farmers and organic food producers examine how large chemical companies, such as Monsanto are profiting from genetic manipulation of our food supply and raise questions of government collusion. The video is a wake-up call and a call to action. For more information about FOOD FOR THOUGHT, contact The Video Project at (800) 4-planet or via e-mail: videoproject@videoproject.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 17:47:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21884 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA22520 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:14:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA22499 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id JAA08162 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:09:02 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz() by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:57:30 +1200 Message-ID: <4443370a2394@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz () To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:34:28 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Australian Canola has non-genetic edge X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1304 Australia Canola has non-genetic edge - ABARE AUSTRALIA: June 16, 1999  SYDNEY - Australian guarantees that its canola was not genetically modified had underpinned expansion in its canola exports, the Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics (ABARE) said yesterday.  In its June quarter Australian Commodities, the government commodities analyst said Australian canola production in 1999/00 was forecast to exceed two million tonnes, yet another record. ABARE's latest forecast of canola production of 2.011 million tonnes is unchanged on its previous forecast and compares with 1.664 million tonnes production in 1998/99. Large amounts of Australian canola continued to be exported to destinations that were less sensitive to genetically modified seed, ABARE said. With genetically modified canola varieties likely to be available to Australian farmers in the next couple of years, the industry would have to consider segregating genetically modified and non-genetically modified canola, it said. After significant expansion of its canola production in the past two years, Australia was now the second largest exporter after Canada. Competition for export markets was likely to intensify in 1999/00 but Australia was likely to gain some benefits from its current non-genetically modified status, ABARE said. ABARE forecast that Australian canola prices would fall by 19 percent to an average A$285 a tonne in 1999/00. Nearly 1.6 million tonnes of Australian canola was forecast to be available for export in 1999/00, up by 26 percent on 1998/99.  REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 17:49:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21915 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA22438 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:13:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA22426 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id QAA08278; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:13:36 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma006691; Wed, 16 Jun 99 16:12:33 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:12:33 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDAC@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: SANET Subject: RE: Biodiesel Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:12:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1305 Dennis, I wrote: >> I am sure that as oil prices climb in the next few decades, >> biodiesel will become an important fuel. Oilseeds could be bred >> specifically for this use. Ray Peat wrote: >> ...will discover that biodiesel fuel is better >> for human health than soybean oil. There is an element of truth to this. High-oleic oilseeds yield a healthful oil (much like olive), also good for certain industrial uses. You wrote: > Agricultural economists have said that modern methods use at > least five calories of petroleum to produce one calorie of food. Don't believe everything you read, or assume the context of remarks like that, to be relevant. But even if that were true in the vegetable oil context, it won't be true in the future, when petroleum becomes expensive. Farmers are smart enough to produce crops with the resources at hand. They use a lot of petroleum now because the price is low. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 18:46:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA23111 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA25407 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:05:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25347 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:05:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (8040) by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id cIYQa01253; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d13ba1e.24997988@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:04:56 EDT Subject: Re:Mycotoxins in stored grain To: WILSONDO@phibred.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1306 What are the health results for cattle fed old grain that may have mycotoxins? Do these weaken immune system as well as provoke a toxic reaction? I am studying an otherwise healthy herd of Holsteins that was hammered by BVD Virus type II when exposed at the same time to a mineral/supplement switch, two-year old farm-stored grain ( corn), and cattle brought into the herd from an auction that probably carried the BVD. BVD was diagnosed in 14 dead animals and the rest were vaccinated. Steve Sprinkel Quesoville, WI To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 21:41:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25402 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21613 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:01:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21578 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool528-cvx.ds66-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.209.18]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28487; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37672A15.F66B4C46@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:37:41 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lon J. Rombough" CC: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Subject: Re: FW: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel References: <199906151548.IAA27864@hevanet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1307 Speaking of fiber optics--the man who invented this, Kapany, was teaching entrepreneurship at UC Santa Cruz, but I was too far away to attend. He must have made so much money he could never spend it, and deserved it, too. Everywhere you turn, you say fiber optics being utilized. Lon J. Rombough wrote: > ---------- > From: "ARS News Service" > To: "ARS News List" > Subject: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel > Date: Tue, Jun 15, 1999, 6:35 AM > > NEWS RELEASE: > NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel > > ----------- > ARS News Service > Agricultural Research Service, USDA > June 15, 1999 > Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov > ----------- > > PEORIA, Ill., June 15--To help speed the development of biodiesel fuels made > with vegetable oils, scientists at USDA's Agricultural Research Service here > have adapted a sophisticated tool known as near-infrared spectroscopy, or > NIR. > > Baby-boomers remember the lines at gas stations when the oil embargo of the > 1970's hit. Despite the oil shortage, America's farm tractors continued to > roll because of USDA research that turned vegetable oils into alternative > fuels. > > The trend will continue in the 21st century, when motorists will see more > public vehicles--buses, trains, trucks, and government-owned maintenance > equipment--running on biodiesel fuels made from soybean oil. By the year > 2001, the Federal Energy Policy Act requires that 75 percent of all new > state and federal vehicles be filled with alternative fuels. > > Until now, the standard for measuring biodiesel quality has been a complex > analytical method called gas chromatography, or simply GC. > > "But GC is a complex piece of laboratory equipment, requiring technical > expertise and at least an hour to perform," said Gerhard H. Knothe, an ARS > chemist in Peoria, Ill. Another drawback of GC is it requires chemical > reagents and solvents that need special handling and costly disposal. > > Knothe has developed a safer and faster way to check the quality of > biodiesel fuel by using NIR. Much of the pioneering work on biodiesel fuels > began where Knothe works, at ARS' National Center for Agricultural > Utilization Research. > > "NIR is a nifty tool also used for determining fatty acid composition in > vegetable oils and oil content in seeds," said Knothe. Another plus: No > special training is needed to perform the NIR test. > > The researchers are developing the method for more effective production > monitoring and fuel quality control, improvements needed by the biodiesel > producers. Biodiesel producers need to know early if the chemical reactions > that occur during biodiesel fuel production are successful. > > Using NIR, Knothe can measure the conversion of vegetable oil to biodiesel > fuel in less than a minute. > > NIR coupled with a fiber-optic probe uses light rather than chemicals to > perform the analysis. Checking the biodiesel fuel quality is important > because potential contaminants in the fuel could lead to engine deposits. > "Our test will help biodiesel fuel producers determine if their products > meet the quality standards of the American Society for Testing and > Materials," Knothe said. > > -------- > Scientific contact: Gerhard H. Knothe, Oil Chemical Research Unit, ARS > National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., phone > (309) 681-6417, fax (309) 681-6340, knothegh@mail.ncaur.usda.gov. > ---------- > This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information > distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the > latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. > * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. > * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD > 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 21:42:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25419 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21749 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:01:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21683 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool528-cvx.ds66-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.209.18]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28644; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37672CB8.3493182A@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:48:56 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Douglas M. Hinds" CC: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Agricultural Data Bases References: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80B4@10.248.CABI.ORG> <199906151124220350.000D6AA6@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAA21695 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1308 Any good, big library (such as university lib) should have the CAB abstracts on their computers, so you could sit and look all you want. My trouble is that it takes a 4 hr round trip to Riverside, then have to park a mile away and walk to the library and walk back at end of day. That is all expensive. All the universities around here, San Diego, are not much good to me. Wrong subjects. Douglas M. Hinds wrote: > Anton, > > I understand "relatively expensive" to mean that access is not free of charge. There ARE other databases that provide abstracts that CAN be accessed free of charge, some of which will charge for sending you the article itself, if you choose to have them do that for you. (You are free to procure the article by other means and incur no charge in simply reviewing the abstracts). However, as I had mentioned below, one of the best of those showed no matches for Neoleucinodes elegantalis and this emphasizes the highly specialized nature of the CAB abstracts, as well as the depth of the contributing sources. Once again, my emphasis was on the word "relatively" and I myself consider CAB a basic (and perhaps indispensable, for those that have the resources available) source of technical information related to agriculture. > > While we're on the topic, perhaps others on this list might care to provide URL's for other sources of Agricultural Abstracts. As stated, my CAB bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms was the only agriculturally specific source I tried that even mentioned "Neoleucinodes elegantalis". The other source was an altavista search, the results of which were manageable mainly due to scarce material available. Furthermore, procuring the articles cited there may or may not prove to be a problem - the source of each short note (not an abstract, certainly), for each one would have to be followed up through other channels - through the original source or perhaps a library. I personally believe that the resources CAB offers stand on their own merit and Anton has demonstrated this by producing the abstracts of what appear to be some very interesting articles (i.e. the effects of pyrethroid insecticides, the influence of different types of mulches on the incidence of d! am! > aged fruit and the Studies on the resistance of determinate tomato cultivars to the small fruitworm Neoleucinodes elegantalis). > > At present, I can access the CAB data bases through one of the governmental agencies for whom it is a basic tool here. In the not so distant future, our plans include subscribing ourselves directly and this will undoubtedly permit an increased use of what CAB has to offer. > > Two things occur to me at present: Perhaps Anton would care to comment further on the mechanism for procuring the actual articles mentioned in CAB abstract databases, and perhaps others of you would be willing to share a few of your own valuable database resources with the rest of us. > > Douglas Hinds > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 15/06/99 at 4:02 AM Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: > > >Dear All, > > > >As requested by Douglas, here are some records from the CAB ABSTRACTS > >database on control of Neoleucinodes elegantalis, with emphasis on > >non-chemical methods of control. > > > >With regard to cost, which is cheaper: losing an entire tomato crop or > >spending a few dollars to search a good quality database to get the > >information needed to take preventive measures? The CABI databases are not > >expensive, but good value for money. We cover the world's agricultural > >literature (about 10000 serial titles, 1000s of books and conferences, > >totalling about 165,000 abstracts each year). CABI has invested a great deal > >of money and worked hard over the last few years to improve the quality of > >the database too, making it one of the best available. CABI also funds four > >research institutes, with stations in the UK, Caribbean, Kenya, Malaysia, > >Switzerland, and Pakistan. Most of the research is done in developing > >countries. CABI also has an Information for Development program, mainly > >funded by sponsorship. > > > >To see what CABI has available in the pest control area, please go to > >http://pest.cabweb.org/ > > > >AU: Haji, F. N. P.\ Alencar, J. A. de.\ Prezotti, L. > >TI: Principal pests of tomato and alternatives for control. > >FT: Principais pragas do tomateiro e alternativas de controle. > >PB: Petrolina, Brazil; Empresa Brasileira de Pesquisa Agropecuaria, Centro > >de > > Pesquisa Agropecuaria do Tropico Semi-Arido (CPATSA) > >YR: 1998 > >PP: 50 pp. > >LA: Es > >AA: Doutora em Entomologia, Pesquisadora, Embrapa - Centro de Pesquisa > > Agropecuaria do Tropico Semi-Arido, Caixa Postal 23, 56300-000, > > Petrolina, PE, Brazil. > > > > > >AU: Raetano, C. G.\ Oliveira Guassu, C. M. de\ Crocomo, W. B. > >TI: Efficiency of pyrethroid insecticides for the control of tomato fruit > > borer Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, 1854) - Lepidoptera - > > Pyralidae. > >FT: Eficiencia de inseticidas piretroides no controle da broca pequena do > > tomateiro - Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, 1854) - > >Lepidoptera > > - Pyralidae, em tomate estaqueado. > >JN: Cientifica (Jaboticabal) > >YR: 1993 > >VL: 21 > >NO: 1 > >PP: 197-202 > >AA: Departamento de Defesa Fitossanitaria, Faculdade de Ciencias > >Agronomicas, > > UNESP, 18600 000 Botucatu, SP, Brazil. > > > >AU: Oliveira, A. M. de\ Cruz, C. A. da\ Santos, J. B. dos > >TI: Influence of different types of mulches on the incidence of damaged > >fruit > > by Neoleucinodes elegantalis on tomato plants. > >FT: Influencia de diferentes tipos de cobertura do solo na incidencia de > > frutos brocados por Neoleucinodes elegantalis em tomateiro. > >JN: Comunicado Tecnico - Empresa de Pesquisa Agropecuaria do Estado do Rio > >de > > Janeiro > >YR: 1990 > >VL: 203 > >NO: 1-2 > >AA: Eng. Agr., Pesquisadora da PESAGRO-RIO/Estacao Esperimental de Nova > > Friburgo, Praca Getulio Vargas, 196 s/1, 28.614 Nova Friburgo, > >RJ, > > Brazil. > > > >AU: Moreira, J. O. T.\ Lara, F. M. > >TI: Studies on the resistance of determinate tomato cultivars to the small > > fruitworm (Neoleucinodes elegantalis Guenee 1954). > >FT: Estudos sobre a resistencia de cultivares de tomateiro de crescimento > > determinado a incidencia de Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Guenee, > > 1854), broca pequena dos frutos. > >JN: Relatorio, Faculdade de Ciencias Agrarias e Veterinarias, Jaboticabal > >YR: 1982 > >NO: Sub projeto 11 > >PP: 52 pp. > >AA: Universidade Estadual Paulista, Jaboticabal, SP, Brazil. > > > >========================================== > >Anton Doroszenko, Team Leader, Field Crops > >CAB International, Wallingford, Oxon, OX10 8DE, UK. > >Tel: +44-1491-829366 Fax: +44-1491-833508 > >E-mail: a.doroszenko@cabi.org > >Web: http://www.cabi.org/ http://www.cabweb.org/ > >========================================== > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] > >> Sent: 15 June 1999 01:02 > >> To: Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) > >> Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > >> Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems > >> > >> > >> Anton, > >> > >> To me, there's no difference between a "tomato fruit borer" and a > >> "perforador del fruto del tomate" except the language. As a > >> representative of CABI, you undoubtedly have access to those excellent but > >> relatively expensive data bases. I suggest you consider demonstrating the > >> value of subscribing to the rest of us (I myself am familiar with them), > >> by posting one or two citations related to Neoleucinodes elegantalis as an > >> example. > >> > >> Douglas Hinds > >> > >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >> > >> On 14/06/99 at 2:33 AM Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: > >> > >> >I found 31 hits on the CAB ABSTRACTS database since 1984 (I didn't check > >> >earlier than that). Most papers refer to Neoleucinodes elegantalis > >> >(Lepidoptera: Pyraustidae) as tomato fruit borer". > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] > >> >> Sent: 12 June 1999 07:16 > >> >> To: Anita Graf (Staff); sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > >> >> Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates > >> that > >> >> Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" > >> >> (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given, > >> >> which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American > >> >> tropics and is not certainly a fungus. > >> >> > >> >> A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up > >> >>no matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the > >> >>same negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a > >> >> weevil? > >> >> > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 21:44:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25446 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA24591 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:06:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA24503 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:09:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "Wallace Institute (E-mail)" Subject: Alternative Agriculture News, 6/99 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:09:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1309 June, 1999 Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, #117 Greenbelt, MD 20770 (301) 441-8777 E-mail: hawiaa@access.digex.net World Wide Web: http://www.hawiaa.org * * * If You Are Interested in Sustainable Agriculture... In addition to this monthly newsletter, the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture publishes the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, a quarterly, peer-reviewed journal of research on alternative agriculture. It is a scientific forum for disseminating technical, economic, and social research findings about the character and requirements of alternative agriculture systems. The factors, challenges, and obstacles in organic farmers' decision-making are featured in the new issue (Volume 14, No. 1). Other articles cover evaluation of farmers' perceptions of soil quality indicators, farmers' attitudes towards sustainable agriculture issues and environmental quality in a selected area of Bangladesh, rice and wheat production in Pakistan with effective microorganisms, a profile of an organic farm in Sweden, and commentary on whether precision agriculture is sustainable. Subscriptions to AJAA are $44 for libraries, $24 for individuals, and $12 for students; contact the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Road, #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; e-mail hawiaa@access.digex.net Table of Contents Bioengineered Corn May Be Killing Monarch Butterflies, p. 1 British Medical Group Calls for Gene-Altered Food Labeling, p. 2 Maryland Hog Farm Causes Problems Raised Nationwide, p. 3 Merrigan to Head USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service, p. 3 Animal Antibiotics Linked to Human Illnesses, p. 3 Researchers Find New Use for Alfalfa, p. 4 World Food Prize Seeks Nominations, p. 4 Positions, p. 4 Resources, p. 4 Upcoming Events, p. 5 BIOENGINEERED CORN MAY BE KILLING MONARCH BUTTERFLIES A variety of genetically altered corn produces a poison that may be killing monarch butterflies during their annual migration, according to an article published in Nature (May 20, 1999). Known as Bt corn, the variety has been genetically modified to exude a poison fatal to corn-boring caterpillars, and now accounts for more than one-quarter of the nation's corn crop, being planted on an estimated 10 to 20 million acres out of the country's 80 million acres of corn. "Pollen from the plants can blow onto nearby milkweed plants, the exclusive food upon which monarch larvae feed, and get eaten by the tiger-striped caterpillars," according to The Washington Post (May 20, 1999). "Monarchs - which already face ecological pressures but have so far managed to hold their own - may soon find themselves on the endangered species list." The research provides the first evidence that pollen from a bioengineered plant can harm non-pest species, according to The New York Times (May 20, 1999). "Butterfly or moth species other than the monarch could be affected by the transgenic plant, particularly those that live on plants like milkweeds that are often found in and around cornfields and could be dusted by Bt corn pollen," the article said. Monarch butterflies migrate from Mexico and Southern California to northern states in the spring, and their offspring return south in the fall. About half of the monarchs that winter in Mexico grow up as caterpillars in the U.S. corn belt. According to Newsweek (May 31, 1999), "Viewing the new crops as useful alternatives to pesticides, most scientists want work on them to continue, if more cautiously. The message from the monarchs, meanwhile, is that even the most well-intentioned biotechnologies are not risk-free." BRITISH MEDICAL GROUP CALLS FOR LABELING OF GENE-ALTERED FOOD Adding to opposition in Europe to bioengineered food products, the British Medical Association last month recommended that genetically altered foods be labeled to inform consumers about their origins, and that those crops be processed separately from conventional crops, rather than mixed together as is done today in the United States. "If growers in the United States or other countries continue to refuse to segregate gene-modified products, the association concluded, then Britain should consider banning imports of those foods," reported The Washington Post (May 18, 1999). "Concerns about genetically engineered corn have already halted virtually all corn exports from the United States to Europe, costing U.S. farmers about $200 million a year." England's largest grocery chain last month announced it would phase out genetically modified foods and try to switch to suppliers whose foods are not made from gene-altered crops. In addition, two large British food processors said they would stop using genetically modified ingredients "for the time being," according to a previous article in The Post (April 29, 1999). Two other articles last month chronicled Europe's opposition to genetically altered food. Newsweek (May 31, 1999) described "a noisy debate raging over what the London tabloids like to call 'Frankenstein foods.'" According to a front-page article in The Wall Street Journal (May 11, 1999), "Monsanto has done something quite remarkable for a U.S. company in Europe. It has gone from obscurity to infamy in just a few years" because of its production of genetically altered seeds, particularly soybeans imported from the United States. MARYLAND HOG FARM CAUSES PROBLEMS RAISED NATIONWIDE A local controversy over a Maryland farmer's decision to run a concentrated hog feeding operation has raised issues seen across the country, as more and more family farmers become contract farmers for huge corporate farming operations, according to an article in The Washington Post (May 23, 1999). The Maryland farmer decided "to turn from small-time dairy farming in favor of hog production on a grand scale," built two big barns, and filled them with 4,000 hogs, the article said. Now neighbors are complaining about the odor emanating from the farm, and the operation has "raised a stink with environmental groups, who fear that Maryland is ill-prepared to handle the threat to air and water posed by hogs and their excrement." State and local officials are also concerned, particularly since there are similar large-scale hog operations in place or being planned in Maryland and parts of Pennsylvania within the Chesapeake Bay watershed. But supporters of the corporate takeover of hog farming say that "farming needs to evolve that way to survive in the global marketplace." "What's happening in Frederick County reflects how large-scale operations are transforming American agriculture," according to the article. "State and local governments have been slow to recognize the coming of such large-scale farms and their possible consequences." According to the USDA, the number of U.S. hog farms has fallen from one million in 1967 to 114,000 in 1998. Operations of 1,000 or more hogs now account for 64 percent of the national inventory, and about half of all hogs are raised under some form of contractual agreement. MERRIGAN TO HEAD USDA'S AGRICULTURAL MARKETING SERVICE Kathleen Merrigan, the Wallace Institute's senior policy analyst for the past five years, has left the Institute to become the new administrator of the USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service. The AMS has a staff of 3,500. Merrigan was formerly an aide to Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) when he served as chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee. She has been a member of the National Organic Standards Board since 1993. "Same agenda, different location," said Merrigan. "This is a great opportunity to go back inside government and work with an agency responsible for many of the issues at the forefront of sustainable agriculture, notably the new organic standards, farmers markets, farmers' cooperatives, mandatory price reporting, and pesticide data collection." ANIMAL ANTIBIOTICS LINKED TO HUMAN ILLNESSES The use of antibiotics in animals has been linked to human illnesses, according to several medical reports published last month. A study from Minnesota in the New England Journal of Medicine found that the use of antibiotics in food animals such as chickens can lead to drug-resistant diarrhea in humans. It also found that some people who acquired the illness picked up the germ overseas, where antibiotics have been used more widely than in the United States. "Increasing foreign travel and the internationalization of the food trade make the use of antibiotics in food production a public health issue of global dimensions," said an editorial in the Journal. Two other studies from California and Washington, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, linked outbreaks of drug-resistant salmonella to unpasteurized milk and antibiotic use in dairy cattle. RESEARCHERS FIND NEW USE FOR ALFALFA Researchers at the USDA's Agricultural Research Service in Madison, Wisconsin, have found a way to make lactic acid from alfalfa fiber, according to an article in Agricultural Research (May, 1999). Lactic acid, now used in foods as a flavoring or preservative, could become a key ingredient in biodegradable plastics. It is currently made synthetically with chemicals or organically as a byproduct of corn fermentation; about half the U.S. lactic acid market is currently imported. Extracting lactic acid from alfalfa would give farmers more incentive to grow the crop, according to the USDA. Alfalfa is valuable in sustainable agriculture because it fixes its own nitrogen, eliminating the need to add nitrogen fertilizer. The article is available electronically on the Internet at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may99/acid0599.htm WORLD FOOD PRIZE SEEKS NOMINATIONS The World Food Prize is seeking nominations for the year 2000 World Food Prize, which recognizes outstanding individual achievement in improving the quality, quantity, or availability of food in the world. The prize emphasizes the importance of a nutritious and sustainable food supply for all people and recognizes that improving the world's food supply for the long term depends on nurturing the quality of land, water, forests, and other natural resources. The deadline for nominations is December, 31, 1999. For a brochure detailing the nomination process, contact World Food Prize, Office of the Secretariat, David Acker, College of Agriculture, Iowa State University, Ames, IA 50011-1050; (515) 294-2883; e-mail bjelland@iastate.edu POSITIONS Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture, Iowa State University, seeks a Director; a full job description is on the Internet at http://www.ag.iastate.edu/news/leopold.html; send letter, resume, and three references to Dr. Wendy Wintersteen, Chair, Leopold Center Search Committee, Iowa State University, 132 Curtiss Hall, Ames, IA 50011-1050. Community Alliance with Family Farmers seeks an Executive Director; for application, call CAFF, P.O. Box 363, Davis, CA 95617, (530) 756-8518; or e-mail caff@caff.org Institute of Ecosystem Studies seeks an Ecology Field Program Leader; send letter, resume, and three references to Dr. Alan Berkowitz, Head of Education, IES, P.O. Box R, Millbrook, N.Y. 12545. WoodPrairie Farm seeks a permanent, year-round worker; send letter, resume, and letter to Jim and Megan Gerritsen, WoodPrairie Farm, 49 Kinney Road, Bridgewater, ME 04735; (207) 425-7741. Stonewall Farm, a non-profit educational farm, seeks an educator; send inquiries to Kully Mindemann, Executive Director, Stonewall Farm, 242 Chesterfield Road, Keene, N.H. 03431. Natick Community Organic Farm seeks a year-round farmer/educator; send letter and resume to Lynda Simkins, 117 Eliot St., Natick, MA 01760. RESOURCES "1999 Progress Report," summaries of 16 research and education projects funded by the Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture, is available from the Center, Iowa State University, 209 Curtiss Hall, Ames, IA 50011-1050; (515) 294-3711; e-mail leocenter@iastate.edu "Reclaiming Our Rural Heritage: A Time to Act," a 55-minute video, is $10 from Catholic Charities, P.O. Box 1342, Sioux City, IA 51102, ATTN: Marilyn Murphy; (712) 255-4346. "The Composters' Answers Book" is $39 from BioCycle, 419 State Avenue, Emmaus, PA 18049; (610) 967-4135; e-mail biocycle@jgpress.com "Controlling Odor and Gaseous Emission Problems from Industrial Swine Facilities" is $5 from the Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture, P.O. Box 588, Poteau, OK 74953; (918) 647-9123. "Who's Coming to Dinner? Livestock Eating Habits and Their Effects on Grazing Management," a 15-minute video, is $19.95 from Publication Orders, Extension & Station Communications, Oregon State University, 422 Kerr Administration, Corvallis, OR 97331; (541) 737-0803. "Grazing in the Northeast: Assessing Current Technologies, Research Directions, and Education Needs," $30 plus $5 shipping, and "Priority Pasture Research and Education Needs," $5 plus $3.50 shipping, are available from Natural Resource, Agriculture, and Engineering Service, 152 Riley-Robb Hall, Ithaca, N.Y. 14853; (607) 255-7654; e-mail nraes@cornell.edu UPCOMING EVENTS June 21-24, "Fire & Grit: Working for Nature in Community" will be held in Shepherdstown, W.V.; contact the Orion Society, 195 Main St., Great Barrington, MA 01230; 1-888-909-6568; e-mail orion@orionsociety.org June 24-25, Advanced Community Food Security Workshop will be held in Cincinnati, OH; contact Community Food Security Coalition, P.O. Box 209, Venice, CA 90294; (310) 822-5410; e-mail asfisher@aol.com July 5-August 7, "Intensive Permaculture Course and Self Reliance Internship" will be held in Basalt, CO; contact Jerome Ostenowski, Central Rocky Mountain Permaculture Institute, P.O. Box 631, Basalt, CO 81621; (970) 927-4158; e-mail permacul@rof.net July 7-10, International Symposium on Society and Resource Management will be held in Brisbane, Australia; contact Donald R. Field, Department of Forest Ecology and Management, 1630 Linden Drive, University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI 53706; e-mail drfield@facstaff.wisc.edu July 22, 19th Annual Milan No-Till Crop Production Field Day and Planting Equipment Demonstration will be held in Milan, TN; contact Dr. Blake Brown, Superintendent, Milan Experiment Station, 6205 Ellington Drive, Milan, TN 38358; (901) 686-7362; e-mail utmilan@usit.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 16 21:58:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25615 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA03581 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:20:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vaughn.ez-net.com (root@vaughn.ez-net.com [205.243.220.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA03511 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bigolpc (pm25pc1-m4.ez-net.com [207.67.104.13]) by vaughn.ez-net.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA01052 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:19:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906170119.UAA01052@vaughn.ez-net.com> Reply-To: From: "Elisabeth Faulkner, DVM" To: Subject: Re: Re:Mycotoxins in stored grain Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:29:00 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1310 : From: Sprinkraft@aol.com : : What are the health results for cattle fed old grain that may have mycotoxins? : : Do these weaken immune system as well as provoke a toxic reaction? : : I am studying an otherwise healthy herd of Holsteins that was hammered by BVD : Virus type II when exposed at the same time to a mineral/supplement switch, : two-year old farm-stored grain ( corn), and cattle brought into the herd from : an auction that probably carried the BVD. BVD was diagnosed in 14 dead : animals and the rest were vaccinated. There is some missing info here (and just where is Quesoville?) regarding feed- lots of other potential problems besides the mold issue. Effects of mold are going to depend on overall healt of the animals, the dose/exposure, and the relative adequacy of the ration. In addition, just vaccinating those that died doesn't mean that there are not still carriers in the herd. And what is the Johne's status of the herd. Finally, what about this herd are you studying? Sounds like a poorly managed situation from what info you give. Elisabeth Faulkner, DVM Spruce, Wisconsin emfvri@ez-net.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 00:21:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA28211 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA09448 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:36:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09432 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.250.230]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990617033609.TGVY15914@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 03:36:09 +0000 Message-ID: <37686D0A.EC1C8801@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:35:38 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: organically produced Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1311 Can anyone tell me exactly what ''organically produced'' entails with reference to the Texas Organic Standards and Certification, and how does this relate to proposed federal regulations? If something is organically produced, but the label does not say it is organically grown, does this mean it may be grown with synthetic pesticides, sewage sludge/biosolids, genetically modified organisms, and irradiated, as well? Thanking you in advance. ~''Bunny'' Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 00:29:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA28320 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA18216 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:49:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from rufino2.gw.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA18073 for ; Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id LAA32038 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:42:31 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id LAA03459 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:23:13 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199906170323.LAA03459@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 17 Jun 99 10:34:13 Subject: electric fencing To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1312 Can somebody please describe how electric fencing (for swine, cattle, etc.) looks like, and what are the specs (voltages, wire sizes, current capacities, etc.)? I need enough info to be able to make one ourselves. We'd like to try an approach described in a much earlier post, setting up an electric fence around an area and confining pigs there to prepare the land for planting. Regards, Roberto Verzola Philippines To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 08:41:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA03575 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA08863 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:46:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from bridge.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA08847 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by bridge.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA25369 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:50:28 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17185 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:46:11 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 17 Jun 99 13:41:51 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 17 Jun 99 13:41:35 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:41:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re:Mycotoxins in stored grain Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <4CD454B3947@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1313 hi steve, >What are the health results for cattle fed old grain that may have >mycotoxins? >Do these weaken immune system as well as provoke a toxic reaction? yep, if they really contain mycotoxins.. -------------------------------- At a given dose, aflatoxin reduces weight gain in growing animals, but disease resistance in the same animal may be reduced already by about half that dose. Aflatoxin causes a broad variety of symptoms, which is very depending on the animal species. However, in all animals, aflatoxin can cause liver damage, decreased reproductive performance, reduced milk or egg production, embryonic death, teratogenicity (birth defects), tumors, and suppressed immune system function, even when low levels are consumed. Symptoms are very soon seen in pigs and much earlier than in cattle. Aflatoxin-contaminated feed not only reduces animal performance and overall health, but it also creates risks of residues in milk. Aflatoxin is secreted into milk in the form of aflatoxin M1 with residues approximately equal to 1 to 2 percent (1.7 percent average) of the dietary level. This ratio is not influenced greatly by milk production level since higher producing cows consume more feed and have a slightly higher transmission rate. Due to risks of milk residues, dietary aflatoxin should be kept below 25 ppb. This level is conservative due to: (1) nonuniform distribution of aflatoxin in grain and feed, (2) uncertainties in sampling and analysis, and (3) the potential for having more than one source of aflatoxin in the diet. Replacement animals may tolerate 50 to 100 ppb aflatoxin. next toxin: DON has been associated with reduced milk production in dairy cattle, vomiting by swine consuming contaminated feed or their refusal to eat feed containing the toxin, and inhibiting reproductive performance and immune function in several animal species. Dairy cattle and poultry are relatively insensitive to the dietary concentration s of DON likely to be found in feeds. In dairy cattle DON is associated with reduced feed intake, lower milk production, elevated milk somatic cell counts, and reduced reproductive efficiency. Milk production loss appears to occur when diets contain more than 300 ppb DON. Although controlled research has shown no cause and effect relationship between DON levels and reduced milk production, field observations have shown that reductions in milk output of 25 pounds per cow were seen when DON was 500 ppb or more. This suggests that DON may serve as a marker for feed that was exposed to a situation conducive to mold growth and mycotoxin formation. The possible presence of other mycotoxins, or factors more toxic than DON, seems likely. Dietary levels of 300 to 500 ppb DON in dairy feeds indicate mycotoxin problems and warrant attention. and the next: Zearalenone mimics the effect of the female hormone estrogen and, at low doses, increases the size or early maturity of mammary glands and reproductive organs. At higher doses zearalenone interferes with conception, ovulation, implantation, fetal development, and the viability of newborn animals. Zearalenone causes estrogenic responses in dairy cattle, and large doses of this toxin are associated with abortions. Other responses of dairy animals to zearalenone may include reduced feed intake, decreased milk production, vaginitis, vaginal secretions, poor reproductive performance, and mammary gland enlargement in virgin heifers. Establishment of a tolerable level of zearalenone for dairy cattle is difficult, and is at best only a guess based on a meager amount of data and field observations. As with DON, zearalenone may serve as a marker for toxic feed. It is suggested that zearalenone not exceed 250 ppb in the total diet. the next: T-2 toxin and its chemical relatives cause irritation, hemorrhage, and necrosis throughout the digestive tract, depress the regenerative process in the bone marrow and spleen, impair immune system function, and cause changes in reproductive organs. Affected animals show signs of weight loss, poor feed utilization, lack of appetite, vomiting, bloody diarrhea, abortion, and (in severe cases) death. T-2 and DAS in cattle feed further results in unthriftiness, decreased feed consumption, slow growth, lowered milk production, and sterility. An outbreak of the hemorrhagic bowel syndrome and death of some animals can occur in herds of cattle and swine. and another: Fumonisin is a mycotoxin which has only recently been discovered. Thus it has not been extensively studied. Nonetheless, it is known that in most animals fumonisin impairs immune function, causes liver and kidney damage, decreases weight gains, and increases mortality rates. In dairy cattle T-2 toxin has been associated with feed refusal, production losses, gastroenteritis, intestinal hemorrhages, and death. T-2 has also been associated with reduced immune response in calves. Data with dairy cattle are not sufficient to establish a tolerable level of T-2 in the diet. Therefore, a practical recommendation may be to avoid T-2 in excess of 100 ppb in the total diet for growing or lactating dairy animals. Beef Cattle Aflatoxin and other mycotoxins can have considerable effects on beef cattle although the problems are usually less critical than for swine and poultry. Consumption of feeds highly contaminated with aflatoxin may reduce growth rate and increase the amount of feed required per pound of gain. Calves are generally more sensitive to feed contamination than adult cattle. In affected calves, some cases have revealed severe rectal straining and a prolapsed rectum. Lactating cows show a significant reduction in milk yield. Research has shown that high levels of aflatoxin can also cause liver damage in adult cattle. Feeding a high level of aflatoxin may also depress immune function, resulting in disease outbreaks. The effects of aflatoxin fed to cattle depend on the level of aflatoxin in the ration, the length of the feeding period, and the age of the animal. If aflatoxin-contaminated feeds must be fed to beef cattle, follow these guidelines (on a dry matter basis): * Creep feeds and diets for gestating and lactating beef cows should contain less than 20 ppb of aflatoxin. * Unstressed, growing-finishing cattle in excess of 400 pounds may be fed diets containing up to 100 ppb of aflatoxin. * Diets for stressed feeder cattle should contain no more than 20 ppb of aflatoxin. Stressful conditions include weaning, shipping, extreme heat or cold, diseases, and parasites. * Animals destined for slaughter should receive aflatoxin-free diets for at least 3 weeks before slaughter. ----------------------------------------------------------- Table. Allowable Aflatoxin in Grain for Beef Cattle ----------------------------------------------------------- Percentage of Grain Aflatoxin Level in Total Diet in Diet 20 ppb 50 ppb 100 ppb ----------------------------------------------------------- 20% 100 ppb 250 ppb 500 ppb 40% 50 ppb 125 ppb 250 ppb 60% 33 ppb 83 ppb 167 ppb 80% 25 ppb 63 ppb 125 ppb This table assumes that aflatoxin is contained only in grains. This assumption is not always correct. regards Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 08:48:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA03644 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA15511 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:55:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA15442 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id GAA19607; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:55:18 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma019509; Thu, 17 Jun 99 06:55:09 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:55:09 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDAF@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Mycotoxins in stored grain Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:55:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1314 Steve, > What are the health results for cattle fed old grain that may > have mycotoxins? Ruminants are pretty tolerant to mycotoxins, but in general they are mutagenic, carcinogenic, damage liver and kidney. Some can get into the milk. > Do these weaken immune system as well as provoke a toxic reaction? I hadn't heard of that particular effect. I did a search and found 12 hits for mycotoxin x immune. Most of the work was on Fusarium toxins in monogastric animals, although one was about patulin, a Penicillium toxin. The papers showed that ingestion affected the immune system. Sometimes the animals became more susceptible to disease challenge, and sometimes less. Fusarium is not likely to grow in stored grain, but Aspergillus is. I did another search on aflatoxin x immune, and got three hits. All of these said that aflatoxin impairs immune function. I'll send these abstracts to you directly. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 09:53:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA04840 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA03867 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:15:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03824 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.2.68.82] (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06426; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: vberton@pop.wam.umd.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: vberton@wam.umd.edu (Valerie Berton) Subject: Raising meat goats Cc: nbum@email.dnet.net Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1315 Sanet - I received this request this morning, and thought some of you might be able to help. Please send any information to Norma, cc:ed above. Thanks in advance - Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist >Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:38:26 +0000 >From: Norma Bumgarner >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: vberton@wam.umd.edu >Subject: Farming >Status: > >I would like to have more information on Farming for Profit. >I raise meat goats. Percentage Boer / Alpine, I am interested in >the possible use of "feedloting" bucks. We also have cattle. In the >summer the cattle usually runs out of grass in the pastures. This >summer where I had 25 goats on about two acres of grass we were able to >round bale 6, 4X5 rolls of hay off the small piece of land. >I believe the future meat will be goat. The problem with alot of goats >in a small area is worms. But I know this can be done . With proper >care and maintenance of the animals. I would like to have your >thoughts on the matter. >Thank you, >Norma Bumgarner > ----------------------------------- Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist 2121 Ag/Life Sciences Surge Bldg. University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742-3358 (301) 405-3186 (301) 314-7373 (fax) vberton@wam.umd.edu http://www.sare.org ----------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 10:00:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA04996 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA03094 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:13:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03046 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu (pss10961.caf.wvu.edu [157.182.7.10]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id JAA01746; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990616230911.006c2738@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:09:11 -0400 To: "Wilson, Dale" , SANET From: John Lozier Subject: Re: Biodiesel In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDA8@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1316 Dennis, Dale, and others: do we have enough global cropland to accommodate fuel production as well as rising levels of meat consumption plus necessary biodiversity, wilderness reserves, etc.? I'm skeptical, but please, make me a believer! At 10:58 AM 6/16/99 -0500, Wilson, Dale wrote: >Dennis, > >I just got back from a canola workshop, and am psyched about the plasticity >of this crop. I am wondering if anybody on the list has had experience with >biodiesel. (snip) > >I am sure that as oil prices climb in the next few decades, biodiesel will >become an important fuel. Oilseeds could be bred specifically for this use. > >Dale John Lozier West Virginia University To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 10:22:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05503 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA21339 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:42:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21326 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Creamer (creamer-cel333-212.hort.ncsu.edu [152.1.76.168]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with SMTP id JAA18745 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990617134146.0094ba54@pop-in.ncsu.edu> X-Sender: ncreamer@pop-in.ncsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:41:46 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Nancy Creamer Subject: Job Opportunity Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1317 SANET readers: Following is an exciting job opportunity at The Center for Environmental Farming Systems (CEFS) in North Carolina. The Center for Environmental Farming Systems is dedicated to developing agricultural systems that are environmentally, economically, and socially sustainable. Established in 1994 at the North Carolina Department of Agriculture Cherry Farm near Goldsboro, the Center has over 2,000 acres. This unique Center is a partnership among North Carolina State University, North Carolina Agriculture and Technical State University, North Carolina Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, non-governmental organizations, and other state and federal agencies, farmers and citizens. The CEFS mission is to provide a site for long-term, large-scale interdisciplinary research, extension education, and undergraduate/graduate training and experiential learning opportunities in sustainable farming systems. Please note the closing date of June 23. Contact Person: Rosilyn M. McNair, Recruiting Specialist, EEO Officer Personnel Services Division, P.O. Box 27647 Raleigh, NC 27611 Located at: Room 302, Agriculture Building, 2 W. Edenton Street Telephone: (919) 733-2243 Fax: (919) 715-4295 E-mail: rosilyn_mcnair@ncdamail.agr.state.nc.us The North Carolina Department of Agriculture is an Equal Employment Opportunity Employer and provides an alcohol and drug free workplace. ________________________________________________________________________________ Positions are posted for a minimum of seven (7) workdays. Each position includes a closing date for accepting applications for employment. Applications received after the closing date will be considered only if the position is re-posted. All closing dates for positions will be honored. Salary ranges reflect the minimum and maximum rates for the job class. Hiring ranges reflect the maximum salary that will be paid for a position. Salaries are based on the selected applicant's relevant experience and training, labor market considerations, the need to maintain internal salary equity, available funding and other applicable policies. State employment applications (PD-107) may be submitted to the above-listed mailing address or fax number and must be received by 5:00 p.m. on the closing date. Consideration will be given to applicants who possess an equivalent combination of related training and work experience commensurate with the minimum job requirements. The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services uses the Merit-Based Recruitment and Selection Plan to Fill Positions Subject to the State Personnel Act with Highly Qualified Individuals. JUNE 15, 1999 JOB TITLE: AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH SUPERINTENDENT I VAC #: 33201 SALARY GRADE/RANGE: 70 $28,895 - $47,639 HIRING RANGE: $28,895 - $43,407 TYPE OF APPOINTMENT: PERM FULL-TIME LOCATION: WAYNE DIVISION: RESEARCH STATION/STATE FARMS DESCRIPTION OF WORK: THIS IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE AND SUPERVISORY POSITION RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING MANAGEMENT AND LEADERSHIP AT THE CENTER FOR ENVIRONMENTAL FARMING SYSTEMS, A LARGE AND COMPLEX AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH, DEMONSTRATION, AND TEACHING FACILITY. THE FACILITY HAS A LARGE DAIRY, BEEF, AND SWINE OPERATION, AS WELL AS SUSTAINABLE, ORGANIC, CONVENTIONAL AND NO-TILL CROPS OPERATION. INVOLVES SEVERAL DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF MANAGEMENT, TO INCLUDE THE DEVELOPMENT, COORDINATION AND IMPLEMENTATION OF RESEARCH PROJECTS, AS WELL AS COLLABORATION BETWEEN ADVISORY GROUPS; RESEARCH PROGRAM MANAGEMENT; FISCAL BUDGET EXECUTION; PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT; PUBLIC RELATIONS; SAFETY AND STATION OPERATIONS. KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND ABILITIES: ABILITY TO ESTABLISH AND MAINTAIN EFFECTIVE WORKING RELATIONSHIPS WITH EMPLOYEES AND OTHERS, INCLUDING FARMERS AND GROWER ORGANIZATIONS; ABILITY TO DEVELOP PLANS FOR A LONG-RANGE AGRICULTURAL PROGRAM; ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE EFFECTIVELY IN BOTH ORAL AND WRITTEN FORM. MUST POSSESS A VALID N.C. DRIVER'S LICENSE. MUST BE WILLING AND ABLE TO OBTAIN WASTE MANAGEMENT CERTIFICATION AND A PUBLIC PESTICIDE OPERATOR'S LICENSE. TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS: GRADUATION FROM A FOUR-YEAR COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY WITH A MAJOR IN ANIMAL SCIENCE, CROP SCIENCE, HORTICULTURE SCIENCE, OR A RELATED CURRICULUM AND THREE YEARS PROGRESSIVE EXPERIENCE IN GENERAL AGRICULTURAL MANAGEMENT, AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH OR AGRICULTURAL EDUCATION; OR AN EQUIVALENT COMBINATION OF TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE. **POSITION RE-ADVERTISED.** CLOSING DATE: 06/23/99 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 10:23:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05512 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24247 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:49:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24202 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:49:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (4459) by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 8BTHa01897; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8ceea9de.249a56a2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:48:18 EDT Subject: Re: Mycotoxins in stored grain To: emfvri@ez-net.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1318 Elizabeth: Thanks for the reply and questions. One animal tested positive for Johnnes. Good question. I was going to include that earlier, but edited it out because I thought it would confuse things. This small organic dairy had a long-term history of low SCC counts ( averaging in the 200K range) and half a dozen trophies on the wall. It was a traditionally closed herd until the owner came down with some health problems. They also had a closed feed system of 20-25 milking cows eating off 160 acres of small grains, alfalfa and corn, all grown and mixed on site, chopped into silage or baled. The owner's health issues prevented him from working in the field, and therefore he couldn't manage the herd or grow enough feed, which led to bringing on the new animals and buying in feed. The DVM from the State lab in Barron also noted subacute rumen acidosis as a significant contributing factor in the mortalities. The immune system supposition was based on the overall feed and supplement changes, and the fact that the supplements used earlier did not contain some of the preservatives and ingredients that the new mineral and vitamin supplements had in them. I was surprised to see that a Purina product is still listing animal fat as an ingredient for ruminants...and whether its Mad Cow or the recent Belgian dioxin experience you use a reference, it seems unacceptable. Organic dairies are allowed to use mineral and supplements....but the fine print on the bag is still something to be concerned about. For example, ethoxyquin is a common preservative. I wondered if a combination of tainted feed ( moulds, etcetera) the infected animals, and the supplements changes all contributed to the radical down turn in herd health. What does BVD stand for? Quesoville is just one of my bad jokes. I continually rename places and travel around so much no one including me knows where I live. Quesoville is the spanish translation for " cheese-town".... Steve Sprinkel Columbus, Wisconsin On the way to the USDA/EPA Bt refuge event in Chicago. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 10:24:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05535 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24604 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:50:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24564 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:50:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (4459) by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id cWPZa05869; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <80fa78df.249a56a9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:48:25 EDT Subject: Re: organically produced To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1319 Hello Bunny, Organically Produced covers the entire growing and handling process. For example, after it is grown, is the product subjected to exposure to synthetics in a commercial hydrocooler? After it is grown, do they add something to it post-harvest like a preservative on the skin of the orange? Do they make sure there isn't a bunch of GMO corn in the bottom of the combine before they combine the organic corn? Organically Produced also covers processed foods, like yogurt, frozen pie, spaghetti sauce. What enzymes, processing aids, boiler chemicals or yeasts were used? Eventually all state and private certification standards will probably use the word" produced" rather than "grown" because it is more comprehensive. Sometime this fall the USDA will release another Proposed Rule. While we know that many of the errors in the original Rule will be corrected, Processed foods and Livestock issues are somewhat at risk to economic pressures. We have lately seen a lot of the private certification agencies improve their standards on livestock, or at least deal with them a lot more comprehensively. As far as ingredients and production aids in livestock and processing go, we still have quite a lot of work to do. Steve Sprinkel To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 11:05:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06430 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA01647 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:10:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca [142.177.1.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01641 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ken ([142.177.55.17]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 607-60695U69000L69000S0V35) with SMTP id AAA6535; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:10:22 -0300 Message-ID: <3768F514.6E3D@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:16:04 -0300 From: Ken Isbell Reply-To: ken.isbell@ns.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: "Lon J. Rombough" , SANET , AGRISYNERGY Subject: Re: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel References: <000401beb7d8$c4d895e0$323325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1320 Argall Family wrote: > > Where canola oil is added to diesel fuel in Europe [at 30%], some vehicle > manufacturers approve, others advise that their existing fuel systems will > be corroded by vegetable oils, and parts would need replacing to use the new > fuel.. > > Interesting that vehicle manufacturers warn vehicle users of the tendency of > vegetable oils to rancidify, but general medical opinion is that they are a > good thing in humans. Rancidification occurs at room temperature, more so at > body temperature, where they inhibit respiration and promote lipid > peroxidation. Perhaps when there is a bigger market for such oils in > machines, there will be less marketing of them to people. > > Dennis Gee Dennis, I thought use of vegetative oils in IC engines was a good thing. Am I missing something? As well, it is only fair to the guy who hand bred the rapeseed (no bio-engineering here, just stoop labour), to differentiate between rapeseed oil which is industrial stuff, and canola oil, which was specifically bred to be wholesome for us homer saps. In the provinces in Canada where canola its grown, it is illegal to grow rape seed for fear of cross-pollination and contamination. It's unfair and malicious to lump the two together, and I'm not sure what the agenda is here. Care to explain it? -- ______ __/__[___] trucking along in East Uniacke /o ------o)=~~Nova Scotia, Canada Zone 5 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 11:24:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06799 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16938 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:28:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16931 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.146] (br-ppp22.hevanet.com [198.5.254.146]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA25944; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906171428.HAA25944@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:23:58 -0700 Subject: FW: Improving Cedarwood Oil From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: AGRISYNERGY , SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1321 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Improving Cedarwood Oil Date: Thu, Jun 17, 1999, 6:35 AM NEWS RELEASE: Cedarwood Oil: Making It More Aromatic, More Available ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 17, 1999 Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- PEORIA, Ill., June 17--When you can't see the forest for the trees, focus on the tree's valuable products. That's the approach that scientists Fred Eller and Jerry King at the Agricultural Research Service have taken in developing an environmentally safe method to extract more and better quality cedarwood oil from juniper trees. The extraction method, known as supercritical fluid extraction (SFE), already benefits consumers who drink decaffeinated coffee. Cedarwood oil--used in cosmetics, perfumes, home odorants, and as an insect control agent--is usually extracted from sawdust and wood chips by steam distillation. But this extraction method produces low oil yields and often decomposes the oil, causing it to have an off-odor. In lab tests, Eller obtained 30 percent more oil than the yield from conventional steam distillation without destroying the oil's aromatic components. "Steam distillation doesn't penetrate deeply into chips, so it averages only a 50 percent yield of the oil from the wood," said Eller, a chemist at ARS' National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research in Peoria, Ill. The presence of oxygen and high temperatures in steam distillation also erodes oil quality. But SFE, which uses carbon dioxide (CO2), works better "because it diffuses in and out of the wood more easily than steam, carrying the cedarwood oil with it. The CO2 is then easily removed from the extract when the mixture is depressurized. This leaves a more pure oil that's uncontaminated by solvent residue," Eller said. Because SFE operates in an oxygen-free atmosphere, the oil's components aren't degraded, making the cedar aroma more similar to the original wood chips than the oil extracted by steam distillation. That's based on an odor analysis by Peoria researchers. On Western rangelands, where cattle and wildlife subsist on forage grass, juniper trees and shrubs are unwelcome inhabitants. The reason: The trees crowd out forage grasses and deplete the soil of water and nutrients needed for other plants. In the Midwest and Southwest, farmers and cattle ranchers routinely remove junipers from fields and ranges at significant expense. Eller and King envision someday being able to develop a mobile SFE unit that farmers could use to produce a value-added product. This could be an economic boost especially for Midwestern farmers, where more land is being invaded by junipers. Cedarwood oil is currently valued between $4.00 a pound (for Texas oil) and $7.00 (for Virginia oil). ---------- Scientific contact: Fred J. Eller, Food Quality and Safety Research Unit, ARS National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., phone (309) 681-6232, fax (309) 681-6340, feller@mail.ncaur.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 11:27:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA06854 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01033 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:50:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from um-mail01.umsystem.edu (um-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.238.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA00962 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by um-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:50:24 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: "'sanet'" Subject: % certified organic farms Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:50:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1322 I'm being interviewed on tv today about organic farming. One of the questions they want answered is how many certified organic farms are there in the US? The tv people mentioned they read 6,000 somewhere. Also, what is the percentage of increase of organic production and consumption over the past year? Does someone have some quick numbers they could pass along to me?. Unfortunately, this interview will be in about 3-4 hours from now so time is short. I only knew about it this morning. Many thanks. Ask me about the 2nd National Small Farm Conference October 12-15, 1999 St Louis MO http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc debi kelly MAC Debi Kelly, Project Manager Missouri Alternatives Center University of Missouri 531 Clark Hall, Columbia, MO 65211 573-882-1905, 800-433-3704 (MO only) kellyd@umsystem.edu http://agebb.missouri.edu/mac "There's no need to sustain the farm if there's no family to be sustained upon it." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 12:16:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08305 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27402 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:33:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27357 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08501 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA28661; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:33:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-17.nidlink.com [216.18.141.24]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA20510; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906171533.IAA20510@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:40:28 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Announcing Ag BioTech InfoNet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1323 We have launched a new website dedicated to agricultural applications of biotechnology. It is We are posting later today the statement I will present tomorrow in Chicago, June 18, 1999, at the EPA-USDA meeting on Bt-transgenic corn and European corn borer resistance management. This critical meeting frames the issues EPA must decide in the next six months or so on the future of Bt-crops in the U.S. All Bt-corn varieties are approved for use only through crop season 2000. Seed for that year is being produced this year. The key condition set forth by EPA when these varieties were approved was that by April 2001 there must be in place a proven, science-based IRM, or insect resistance management plan. See the various statements made at the Chicago meeting for current views regarding whether that condition has or will be met. In the next few days, we will release via the webpage a new analysis of Roundup Ready yield drag data for crop year 1998. We welcome any suggestions for the new website. Please alert others who might be interested in this new resource. chuck benbrook Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 12:19:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08363 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20477 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:21:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA20382 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:21:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA27402; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:21:39 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma026633; Thu, 17 Jun 99 10:21:00 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:21:00 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDB5@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: SANET Subject: Biodiesel and the meaning of sustainability Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:20:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1324 John, > Dennis, Dale, and others: do we have enough global cropland > to accommodate fuel production as well as rising levels of > meat consumption... We don't have to eat so much meat, and we don't have to use so much energy. If meat cost, say, $10/pound in terms of todays dollar, you can bet meat consumption would drop. If diesel fuel cost $5/gallon, we would use less, and producing biodiesel will be very attractive. Times will change and markets will adjust. The prevailing view among proponents of "sustainable" agriculture seems to be that public policy should seek to discern the distant future and institute strong policy to accomodate their model of the future. This is dangerous because it is hard to predict the future. Not only that, we have enough clear inequities, market distortions and environmental problems to deal with in the immediate future. IMO, we need to create policy that looks ahead about a decade to catalyze the seeds of the solutions to tomorrows problems. For example, the government subsidizes R&D in solar power in anticipation that this will be a market-driven solution in the forseeable future. This backfired in the 1970's because the need was too far in the future (it isn't anymore). Right now, meat consumption is rising because grain is very cheap. Farmers burn a lot of diesel and apply excess N because petroleum is cheap, but that won't last very long. The markets are inexorable, and I trust them more than central planning in the long run. > plus necessary biodiversity, wilderness reserves, etc.? IMO this is the central environmental issue: making room for wild nature. "Sustainability" is the wrong issue. Agriculture in some form is sustainable because people have to eat. Most concerns on Sanet are anthropocentric and political. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 12:23:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08457 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:23:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27173 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:32:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27162 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn27tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.156]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12385 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:33:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:33:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906171533.KAA12385@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: electric fencing Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1325 Hi Roberto, We have used electric fencing to contain our pigs for about 6 years now. It works really well most of the time. The times it doesnn't work so well is with young pigs(4 to 12 weeks old), and pigs unfamiliar with electric fencing. We use two types of fencing. One is a poly strand(UV resistant polyethelene strands with stainless steel or alluminum strands woven in with the poly strands) or regular galvanized steel fencing wire. Of these two type either work well, but the poly wire is colorfull and easier for the animal and farmer to see. This visibility factor could easily be corrected with colorful rags or such tied to the steel wire. We use fiberglass fence posts 11/16" diameter for the corners, and 3/8" for the straght runs. Little plastic gizmo clips hold the wire to the posts and are easily slid up or down, even when hot. The corners are another matter...we tie knots there. The other type of fencing we use is called 'electro net'. It has hot strands of polywire spaced horizontally ever 2, 4 or 5 inches, depending on what you order. The strands are held in space by vertical plastic aligners spaced every foot. The effect is a net of hot electric horizontal wires that will contain most any animal, even poultry. The rrouble with the electro net is the pigs will root dirt onto and eventuallly over the netting. Where we use the netting(which keeps chickens, geese and young pigs out of the garden ), a single strand of poly wire is set up about a foot inside the electronet. This keeps the pigs away from the netting and avoids shorting the fence out because of rooting. There are built in fence posts every three meters orso. It is manufactured in England. Our charger produces 6200 volts, 4.60 joules, for a 5000th of a second. This results in a high pain potential and yet is safe because of the time duration. Also if the time duration is a lot longer ir will tend to melt out the poly in our wires. Generally the shorter the pulse the safer the system for melting, fire and injury potential. I'm no phyicist, but I know about pain and our fence hurts like hell if you bump into it(especially with wet feet). Another note on charging, you'll need to completely ground the system, so when the animal touches the fence the earth acts as to complete the curcuit. Any new pig introduced into the drove is put in a wooden pen about 6 meters square, with a strand of hot wire a foot inside the wood frame. The pig will quickly learn to respect the electric wire and once that is learned it will respect a hot fence without the wood pen. If your just containing pigs, one wire could be enough if the pigs are conditioned to it, the fence is kept hot, and they are not stressed form lack of food, water, or shade. If the pigs become naughty and start escaping into the garden, two or three wires may be neccessary. Two wires spaced horizontally are more effectve with pigs than two wire spaced vertically, but it takes twice as many posts. We generally use two wires, spaced vertically as Tamworths jump fairly well, and it is best not to tempt them. Below are a couple of earlier articles I wrote about using our pigs to denude soils. I can attest to the fact that pigs will eliminate poison ivy, or just about anything else you pen them in with. At Prairie Dock Farm we have been using Tamworth hogs in a pastoral grazing/cultivating system for a couple of years now. Sheep and chickens are grazed through a paddock, followed by pigs and chickens. When the pigs have finished rooting, we seed with an appropriate cover crop, let the pigs stompple it in, move them off and irrigate. It produces wonderful stands of covercrop/pasture, and the tractor never even came out of the shed. This system also works with most any nasty weed patch you may have. It is limited only by your creativity with electric fencing. Pigs once taught, develop a healthy respect for an electric fence. A single strand is usually enough as long as they have enough food and water....(boars can be another matter). Once securely fenced the pigs can be induced into the worst of places with a scoop of corn. One need only pour corn on any particular 'nasty' and it disappears. We also use the pigs in our composting program. Our farm is DNR certified to compost 40,000 cubic yards of yard waste per year. When pasture is unavailable we pen the Tams in the leaf windrow area. Again with corn as an incentive, hogs can be used to replace expensive compost turning machinery, and turn a tasty profit. We choose Tamworth howgs for a few reasons. First they are a heritage animal. This is the animal version of a heirloom vegetable, that being they are rare and we are in danger of losing their genetic heritage. Second, Tams are noted for their rooting ability, pasturing capability, variety of diet, hardiness, mothering instincts, and with a great personality. This is the type of hog your great, great grandparents probably raised. Third, they have as good a feed conversion rate as most pigs. An added benefit is they are a very lean pig. This coupled with being raised organically, on pasture hits a nice niche market. The pigs have become a big attraction at the farm with the membership and local schools(our farm is a CSA, Comunity Supported Agriculture). I think it really makes an impression on a young person to see and touch a farm animal. This is the type of experience children need to be exposed to at a young age to develop a respect for nature and life. We do rent these critters if you live in our area and meet a few safety criteria. A one day internship is necessary to avoid the occurrence of unpleasant situations. Sales are available too. Write for details. Greg, from the Farm...Goodnight. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 12:24:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08496 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA05401 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:43:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.clnk.com (mail.clnk.com [12.5.228.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05387 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([12.5.228.161]) by mail.clnk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-39877U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA182 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:46:07 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990617104628.006f83e8@mail.clnk.com> X-Sender: manjula@mail.clnk.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:46:28 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" " From: Manjula Guru Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1326 Dear Saneters, This is the first jump into the sanet talk, but I wondered how many have had the chance to come across the following US patent court ruling. U.S. Ruling Aids Opponent Of Patents for Life Forms http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-06/17/199l-061799-idx.html Manjula. ***************************************************************** Manjula V. Guru Ag. Economist, The Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture, Inc. P.O.Box 588, Hwy. 271 South,Poteau, OK 74953. Phone: (918)647-9123 Fax: (918) 647-8712. Email: manjula@kerrcenter.com To use, to understand, to love the soil, is a civilizing process. - Robert S. Kerr. ****************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 12:38:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08959 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA05596 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:45:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.clnk.com (mail.clnk.com [12.5.228.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05590 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([12.5.228.161]) by mail.clnk.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-39877U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA88 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:48:03 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990617104826.006df8c4@mail.clnk.com> X-Sender: manjula@mail.clnk.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:48:26 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" " From: Manjula Guru Subject: Patents for life forms. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1327 Dear Saneters, This is my first jump into the sanet talk, but I wondered how many have had the chance to come across the following US patent court ruling. U.S. Ruling Aids Opponent Of Patents for Life Forms http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-06/17/199l-061799-idx.html Manjula. ***************************************************************** Manjula V. Guru Ag. Economist, The Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture, Inc. P.O.Box 588, Hwy. 271 South,Poteau, OK 74953. Phone: (918)647-9123 Fax: (918) 647-8712. Email: manjula@kerrcenter.com To use, to understand, to love the soil, is a civilizing process. - Robert S. Kerr. ****************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 13:19:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA10229 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA07970 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:38:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07955 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:38:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com (4465) by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 7ZFRa08561 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:37:55 EDT Subject: Re: Mycotoxins in stored grain To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1328 Thanks to Klaus, Elizabeth and Dale for the detailed information. I wish the grain was still available to test, and wonder if there is an economical testing method farmers could use to test for the presence of the fungi. Steve To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 13:23:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA10355 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06624 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:35:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.netural.com (IDENT:qmailr@mournblade.NETural.com [206.54.248.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06611 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22765 invoked from network); 17 Jun 1999 16:35:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.bpichicago.org) (207.112.147.81) by mournblade.netural.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 1999 16:35:39 -0000 Received: by mail.bpichicago.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:50:34 -0500 Received: by mail.bpichicago.org from [192.168.0.55] (192.168.0.55::mail daemon,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:50:32 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990617113616.00698a88@[192.168.0.5]> X-Sender: ksmith@[192.168.0.5] X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:36:16 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Katherine Smith" Subject: Impact of Research In-Reply-To: <199906162115.RAA22668@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1329 Does anyone know of any studies that link research dollars spent on agriculture to actual changes in farming practices? It can be a general study, or specific to any given farming practice. I am trying to show that when governments devote dollars to research, it does actually make a difference in farming practices. I know it seems a little obvious, but I am having trouble finding supportive material. Thanks! Katherine Smith ksmith@bpichicago.org Intern Business and Professional People for the Public Interest 17 E. Monroe, Suite 212 Chicago, IL 60603 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 13:42:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA11021 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19326 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:57:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19238 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id LAA63436 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:56:54 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990616170553.0070d0a8@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:05:53 -0500 To: ecomda@danenet.wicip.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Abe Lincoln: Prophet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1330 >From the CITnet listserve: >> Here is a sobering quote by Abe Lincoln: >> >> "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that >> unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of >> my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and >> an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the >> money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its >> reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until >> all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic >> is destroyed." >> >> -- U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864 >> (letter to Col. William F. Elkins) >> Ref: The Lincoln Encyclopedia, Archer H. Shaw >> (Macmillan, 1950, NY) >> > Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 14:35:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12499 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA19723 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:45:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [208.138.185.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19676 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (node155.csj.net [208.138.185.155]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA27032 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:46:14 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Subject: goats as predator control Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:42:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000501beb8e8$e21fa240$aefcfea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1331 After 2 dogs got into my rhea pen last week I am abandoning the notion that llamas are good for predator control. It is a large pen in a densely wooded area, so after a rain the hot wires often have debris on them, shorting them out. I heard a rumor that goats can be used for predator control. Is there any truth to this? Donna C. Fezler Jacksonville, IL http://www.rhealiving.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 15:26:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA13990 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:26:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA23869 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:42:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wstcm1.westco.net (wstcm1.westco.net [205.245.79.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA23831 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from westco.net [205.245.78.137] by wstcm1.westco.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.06) id A10F11013A; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:40:15 EDT Message-ID: <37694236.732838CF@westco.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:45:10 -0400 From: Julia Farmer Organization: http://www.angelfire.com/wv/nubians X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gcr@rhealiving.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: goats as predator control References: <000501beb8e8$e21fa240$aefcfea9@donna> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1332 Donna Fezler wrote: > I heard a rumor that goats can be used for predator control. Is > there any truth to this? Absolutely none. Goats are extremely vunerable to predation by dogs and other predators. In fact, most of my livestock guardian dogs are sold to goat herds. -- Julia Farmer Farmer's Nubians & Maremma Livestock Guardian Dogs Morgantown, WV USA ********************************************************************* Got Milk? Join CHEESEMAKERS-L and make cheese http://members.xoom.com/cheesemaker/Cheesemakers-L.htm ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 18:32:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA19061 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA21216 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:43:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA21129 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cedecor.ipnet.com.mx ([167.114.21.49]) by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:43:05 -0500 Message-ID: <199906171640090060.025B4519@acnet.net> In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDB5@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDB5@vela.phibred.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.14 (2) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:40:09 -0600 From: "Douglas M. Hinds" To: "Dale Wilson" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Biodiesel and the meaning of sustainability Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA21142 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1333 You made some good points, Dale. But - when you say: >IMO this is the central environmental issue: making room for wild nature. >"Sustainability" is the wrong issue. I*M*O, sustainability IS the issue because it signifies survival - the survival of everything [except maybe cockroaches, mosquitos, ticks, fleas and possibly a few more - but that is a purely personal and sentimental concern, as the future of those pests is not at risk, anyway. I just wish it was]. By the same token, when you say: >Agriculture in some form is >sustainable because people have to eat. You are assuming that "people" are going to be around indefinitely, in spite of the destructive things they do to each other and the environment, including so many things done in the name of agriculture. The reason why agriculture must become MORE sustainable is because the biosphere that sustains (temporarily) even relatively unsustainable practices (and the difference between sustainable and unsustainable is exactly that - relative in time, while both relative and absolute in principle, since one is degenerative, the other regenerative), must be given more consideration by the people using unsustainable methods, so everyone's cell line can count on a home in the future. The importance of doing this is the reason that: >Most concerns on Sanet are >anthropocentric and political. People have created the problem and people will have to resolve it; people themselves and their governing bodies. These are issues that that affect us all. Therefore, they are public issues and what is or isn't legal is precisely the big issue, along with the incentives that should be given to desirable activities and the impediments (like taxes) that should be reasonably placed on undesirable ones. These measures too must be provided with a legal basis, in order to produce the desired effect. You may be assuming that this will happen anyway (by itself) because "people" (as a whole) will recognize and respond to pressing needs. However, in reality some will do so first, and oblige others whose vested interests tends to run counter to the public interest, even while their economic power tends to corrupt both legal systems, law makers and the media. The important thing is to substantiate exactly what the issues are, to focus on all important aspects involved. Not so long ago, the multifaceted environmental factors involved in chemical &/or monocultural, industrialized agricultural systems were barely understood. Now, with the advent of GMO's, a whole new can of worms has been opened. Much attention must (and will) be given to the field and the interchange of data and opinions is just beginning. I hope you agree, because I will be off line for a while. In any case, IMO; sustainability, the test of time (which presumes health), is as good a measurement as any. "Making room for wild nature" is fine, but it doesn't seem as basic in that while "wild nature" may have rights and adherents, the underlying concept is less purposeful in a metaphysical sense - the sense of going somewhere. The sense of purpose itself. With "wild nature", the focus can be shifted to many disparate, momentary and not necessarily cohesive or evolving realities. Douglas Hinds *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 17/06/99 at 10:20 AM Wilson, Dale wrote: >John, > >> Dennis, Dale, and others: do we have enough global cropland >> to accommodate fuel production as well as rising levels of >> meat consumption... > >We don't have to eat so much meat, and we don't have to use so much energy. >If meat cost, say, $10/pound in terms of todays dollar, you can bet meat >consumption would drop. If diesel fuel cost $5/gallon, we would use less, >and producing biodiesel will be very attractive. > >Times will change and markets will adjust. The prevailing view among >proponents of "sustainable" agriculture seems to be that public policy >should seek to discern the distant future and institute strong policy to >accomodate their model of the future. This is dangerous because it is hard >to predict the future. Not only that, we have enough clear inequities, >market distortions and environmental problems to deal with in the immediate >future. > >IMO, we need to create policy that looks ahead about a decade to catalyze >the seeds of the solutions to tomorrows problems. For example, the >government subsidizes R&D in solar power in anticipation that this will be a >market-driven solution in the forseeable future. This backfired in the >1970's because the need was too far in the future (it isn't anymore). > >Right now, meat consumption is rising because grain is very cheap. Farmers >burn a lot of diesel and apply excess N because petroleum is cheap, but that >won't last very long. The markets are inexorable, and I trust them more than >central planning in the long run. > >> plus necessary biodiversity, wilderness reserves, etc.? > >IMO this is the central environmental issue: making room for wild nature. >"Sustainability" is the wrong issue. Agriculture in some form is >sustainable because people have to eat. Most concerns on Sanet are >anthropocentric and political. > >Dale > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 21:27:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA22846 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA26320 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:48:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from server1.redigital.com.ar (server1.redigital.com.ar [209.14.115.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA26266 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from notebook-hernan (ppp9.redigital.com.ar [209.14.115.56]) by server1.redigital.com.ar (8.6.8.1/SCO5) with SMTP id AAA10180 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:48:14 GMT Reply-To: From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?SGVybuFuIEJhbGHx4Q==?=" To: Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1093 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:01:24 -0300 Message-ID: <000001beb924$f744e040$03000064@notebook-hernan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal Disposition-Notification-To: "Hernn Bala" In-Reply-To: <199906162115.RAA22668@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1334 hskdjfkhadhkfahsdkf -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu] Enviado el: Mircoles 16 de Junio de 1999 18:15 PM Para: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Asunto: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1093 sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, June 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1093 In this issue: More follow-up on rodents and hantavirus Re: labels. RE: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel FW: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants Biodiesel =?iso-8859-1?Q?USDA_Advisory_Committee_Openings=A0_URGENT?= RE: Biodiesel FOOD FOR THOUGHT--A VIDEO ABOUT GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOOD New Progressive Website RE: Biodiesel Australian Canola has non-genetic edge See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:06:14 -0600 (MDT) From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: More follow-up on rodents and hantavirus Dear Sanet, A fellow saneter emailed me and said that wild deer mice were not the only carriers of the hantavirus. A web search revealed the following information from The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) at: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hanta/hps/textonly2/publicp1.htm Here are the rodents that carry the types of hantavirus that cause HPS in the United States: The deer mouse (Peromyscus maniculatus) is a deceptively cute animal, with big eyes and big ears. Its head and body are normally about 2 - 3 inches long, and the tail adds another 2 - 3 inches in length. You may see it in a variety of colors, from gray to reddish brown, depending on its age. The underbelly is always white and the tail has sharply defined white sides. The deer mouse is found almost everywhere in North America. Usually, the deer mouse likes woodlands, but also turns up in desert areas. The cotton rat (Sigmodon hispidus), which you'll find in the southeastern United States (and way down into Central and South America), has a bigger body than the deer mouse-head and body about 5 - 7 inches, and another 3 - 4 inches for the tail. The hair is longer and coarser, of a grayish brown color, even grayish black. The cotton rat prefers overgrown areas with shrubs and tall grasses. The rice rat (Oryzomys palustris) is slightly smaller than the cotton rat, having a head and body 5 - 6 inches long, plus a very long, 4- to 7-inch tail. Rice rats sport short, soft, grayish brown fur on top, and gray or tawny underbellies. Their feet are whitish. As you might expect from the name, this rat likes marshy areas and is semiaquatic. It's found in the Southeastern United States and into Central America. The white-footed mouse (Peromyscus leucopus) is hard to distinguish fom the deer mouse. The head and body together are about four inches long. You should note that its tail is normally shorter than its body (about 2 - 4 inches long). Topside, its fur ranges from pale brown to reddish brown, while its underside and feet are white. The white-footed mouse is found through southern New England, the Mid-Atlantic and Southern states, the Midwest and into the western states and Mexico. It prefers wooded and brushy areas, although sometimes it will live in more open ground. Sometimes, the "country mouse" becomes a "city mouse" Both the deer mouse and the cotton rat are usually in rural areas, but can also be found in cities when conditions are right, such as easy availability of food, water and shelter. Other rodents may also carry hantavirus It appears that other rodents carrying strains of hantavirus that cause HPS are yet to be identified. In addition, yet other rodent species play host to other types of hantaviruses that cause a different type of infection, hemorrhagic fever with renal syndrome, or HFRS. It is wise, therefore, to avoid close contact with rodents in general. - ---end Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:39:17 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver Subject: Re: labels. Love one another. It has always worked where tried, but not often tried.=================== Mark wrote: > At 06:10 PM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > I would just like to make sure that people are aware of what they are > >buying. Just because a chain food store (or other store or farmer > >or.......) says animals should be raised humanely and without antibiotics > >doesn't mean they are walking the walk. Talk is very cheap in this > >country. In the end, I'm coming to the conclusion the only reliable way to > >get what you think you are is to buy directly at the farm. Is there > >another reliable method? > > Greg, > > I think people should know what they are buying and be able to trust what > they are buying. But I would be wary of making broad statements calling > into question claims about products unless you have evidence that they are > not what they appear. This kind broad based mistrust is a double edged > knife. I have been at board meetings (for an organization I serve) where > people have fought against investing funds in a socially responsible > investment portfolio because "you never really know if they are doing what > they say they are doing." This was a nationally known and widely acclaimed > fund. Yet we could not muster enough support for it because of this rather > baffling level of mistrust. So now the funds are going to be invested in > tobacco and firearms manufacturers, something no one really wants to do. I > have also seen farmers call into question other farmers' practices and > spread rumors about them. They spent a lot of time discredting someone who > is working hard and then their accusations ended up being false. > > The only reliable method is to either buy from a farm whose practices you > know intimately, or to trust that an independent agency has certified them, > or to trust the label. And as we have seen in Belgium, there are times > when a lack of trust is warranted. Trust, but trust wisely. > > Mark > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization > > c/o Hampshire College > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:15:25 +1000 From: "Argall Family" Subject: RE: NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel Where canola oil is added to diesel fuel in Europe [at 30%], some vehicle manufacturers approve, others advise that their existing fuel systems will be corroded by vegetable oils, and parts would need replacing to use the new fuel.. Interesting that vehicle manufacturers warn vehicle users of the tendency of vegetable oils to rancidify, but general medical opinion is that they are a good thing in humans. Rancidification occurs at room temperature, more so at body temperature, where they inhibit respiration and promote lipid peroxidation. Perhaps when there is a bigger market for such oils in machines, there will be less marketing of them to people. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 07:52:36 -0700 From: "Lon J. Rombough" Subject: FW: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants - ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants Date: Wed, Jun 16, 1999, 7:06 AM NEWS RELEASE: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants - ---------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 16, 1999 Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov - ----------- MORRIS, Minn., June 16--Gardeners and farmers who are used to checking the N-P-K (nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium) levels on their fertilizer bags may someday be checking N-P-K-V levels in their soil. That's V for vanadium. Vanadium "impersonates" phosphorus and can confuse a plant into eating it instead of phosphorus. That can cause the plant to experience a phenomenon akin to that of people who eat junk food in place of a nutritious meal, reports soil scientist Alan F. Olness with the USDA's Agricultural Research Service. "The hunger goes away but the nutrients never arrive," said Olness, with ARS' North Central Soil Conservation Research Laboratory in Morris, Minn. "Phosphorus is an essential nutrient plants need for growth. But vanadium, a trace element abundant in soils throughout the world, is useless to many plants, including corn, soybean, tomatoes, Impatiens and petunias." Olness plans to study different soil types this summer to see if there is any relationship between soil type and high vanadium content. "During a growing season," he said, "plants may have only two or three time windows during which they can take in phosphorus. If they fill up on vanadium instead, they miss out on phosphorus, because their root cells can't tell them apart. Their growth and development--and yields--suffer. The more vanadium, the more the plant slows down and the lower the yield. For ornamentals, the slowdown could result in less beauty and hardiness." Vanadium captured Olness' interest about a decade ago, when he discovered that it mysteriously reduces soybean yields. "Studying the vanadium effect has been some of the most exciting work of my career," said Olness, who has worked as an ARS soil scientist for 32 years. In the past 3 years, he and colleagues have confirmed earlier work showing t hat plants do confuse this little-known soil trace element with phosphorus. Plants may not be the only organisms misled by vanadium. "Vanadium may be the missing element causing lapses in the accuracy of soil phosphorus recommendations given to farmers and gardeners," Olness said. Standard soil tests don't measure vanadium. Ten years ago, Olness developed a test that does. It also measures the ratio of vanadium to soil phosphorus and other nutrients. Olness said this test could be used to recalculate phosphorus recommendations. The optimum economic amounts of phosphorus would have to be re-determined through research. Scientists would have to consider the soil's ratio of vanadium to phosphorus when they correlate phosphorus concentrations with plant growth. "This could lead to higher phosphorus recommendations in soils that are very high in vanadium--probably over 150 parts per million," Olness said. "But it could also lower phosphorus recommendations in soils with low levels, perhaps under 100 ppm. "And the test can identify soils so high in vanadium that it wouldn't be economical to add the high levels of phosphorus required to boost yields. In that case, the farmer or gardener might want to switch to a crop that needs less phosphorus or a crop variety that blocks or neutralizes vanadium within the plant." There's even hope for the vanadium-befuddled soybean, according to Olness. "We know vanadium 'immunity' can be bred into plants, because we found a soybean variety that is rather unaffected by vanadium. This provides us with hope we can extend the ability of this variety to other crops. One of the next steps is to determine how this variety is controlling vanadium." He plans to expand his soil testing to other states in the Mississippi River Valley. He also plans to develop a phosphorus advisory so farmers can account for the vanadium effect. - ---------- Scientific contact: Alan E. Olness, ARS North Central Soil Conservation Research Laboratory, Morris, Minn., phone (320) 589-3411, fax (320) 589-3787, aolness@mail.mrsars.usda.gov. - ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:58:01 -0500 From: "Wilson, Dale" Subject: Biodiesel Dennis, I just got back from a canola workshop, and am psyched about the plasticity of this crop. I am wondering if anybody on the list has had experience with biodiesel. > Where canola oil is added to diesel fuel in Europe [at 30%], > some vehicle manufacturers approve, others advise that their > existing fuel systems will be corroded by vegetable oils, > and parts would need replacing to use the new fuel. I thought the big problem was carbonization in the injectors. I believe one can transesterify vegetable oil in your garage to make methyl esters of fatty acids, a more thermally stable fuel than triglycerides. > Interesting that vehicle manufacturers warn vehicle users of > the tendency of vegetable oils to rancidify.. With new oilseed varieties low in polyunsaturates, oxidation and gum formation should be less of a hazard. I am sure that as oil prices climb in the next few decades, biodiesel will become an important fuel. Oilseeds could be bred specifically for this use. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:06:19 -0400 From: Andy Clark Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?USDA_Advisory_Committee_Openings=A0_URGENT?= SANet: There are openings on three key USDA advisory committees, for your information. Details below. Please use contact information listed below for more information. 1) <> Biotech Advisory Committee Closing Date July 7, 1999 POSTMARKED 2) <> Small Farm Advisory Committee Closing Date June 25, 1999 RECEIVED 3) <>REE Advisory Board Closing Date June 25, 1999 RECEIVED <> Biotech Advisory Committee Closing Date July 7, 1999 POSTMARKED USDA Secretary Dan Glickman announced the formation of a new advisory committee to explore policy issues that arise from the "creation, application, trade, and use of agricultural biotechnology." The committee will have 25 members, at least 20 of whom will come from outside the federal government. From the Federal Register notice (available under the Agriculture Dept. listings at http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/fedreg/a990607c.html "Members of ACAB should have recognized expertise in one or more of the following areas: Recombinant-DNA (rDNA) research and applications using plants; rDNA research and applications using animals; rDNA research and applications using microbes; food science; silviculture and related forest science; fisheries science; ecology; veterinary medicine; the broad range of farming or agricultural practices; weed science; plant pathology; small farm advocacy; biodiversity issues; applicable laws and regulations relevant to agricultural biotechnology policy; risk assessment; consumer advocacy and public attitudes; public health/epidemiology; occupational health; ethics, including bioethics; human medicine; biotechnology industry activities and structure; intellectual property rights systems; and international trade. Members will be selected by the Secretary of Agriculture in order to achieve a balanced representation of viewpoints to address effectively USDA biotechnology policy issues under consideration." Nominees will need to submit the following by July 7, 1999: 1) a brief summary (2 page max.) of qualifications; 2) a current resume; 3)a completed form AD-755 (available online at http://www.usda.gov/oce/osfsd/advisorynotice.htm as well as from the SAC office and from Diane Harmon, Office of Pest Management Policy, 202-720-3191, e-mail dharmon@ars.usda.gov ). MSAWG members should send copies of their nomination information to Dave Butcher, MSAWG Grassroots Coordinator, at davidb@uslink.net . The designated USDA contact for information is Michael Schechtman, Office of the Deputy Secretary, 202-720-3817, fax 202-690-4265, e-mail miachael.g.shechtman@usda.gov for more information and receipt of nominations. <> Small Farm Advisory Committee Closing Date June 25, 1999 RECEIVED USDA will form a 15 member Advisory Committee on Small Farms in order to gather and analyze information on small farms and ranches in the U.S. and recommend actions to the Secretary to enhance the viability of these operations. The committee is explicitly intended to continue the work of the National Commission on Small Farms, and to "ensure" the implementation of the Commissions recommendations in "A Time To Act." >From the June 10, 1999 Federal Register notice (also available at http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/fedreg/a990610c.html "Members will represent small farms and ranches, and the diverse groups USDA programs serve, including but not limited to, finance, commerce, conservation, cooperatives, nonprofit organizations, rural communities, academia, state and local governments, Native Americans, farm workers, and other interests as the Secretary determines." Nominations should include: name, title, address, telephone number, and organization, and may be submitted by e-mail to adrain@nass.usda.gov or faxed to 202-690-4915. Form AD-755 is required, and is available online at http://www.usda.gov/oce/osfsd/advisorynotice.htm as well as from the SAC office and from USDA. Questions or nominations should be directed to Alfonzo Drain, Deputy Director of Small Farms, Office of the Chief Economist, USDA, Room 112-A Jamie L. Whitten Building, 1400 Independence Avenue SW, Washington, D.C. 20250-3810, telephone 202-720- 3238, fax 202-690-4915, e-mail adrain@nass.usda.gov and must be received by June 25, 1999. <>REE Advisory Board Closing Date June 25, 1999 RECEIVED The 1996 Farm Bill authorizes the creation of the National Agricultural Research, Extension, Education and Economics Advisory Board, which has operated since 1996. Because members serve for staggered, three-year terms, ten slots on the Board will be vacant as of September, 1999. These positions are: Farm Cooperatives Plant Commodity Producers National Aquaculture Associations National Food Science Associations National Nutritional Science Societies Land-Grant Colleges and Universities 1862 Scientific Community not closely associated with Agriculture An Agency of USDA lacking research capabilities Research Agency of the Federal Government other than USDA National Organization directly concerned with REE Nominations should include: name, title, address, telephone number, and organization, and submitted to the Office of the Advisory Board, Research, Education and Economics, Room 3918 South Building, Washington, D.C. 20250-2255. Form AD- 755 is also required, and is available online at http://www.usda.gov/oce/osfsd/advisorynotice.htm as well as from the SAC office and from USDA. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 03:56:33 +1000 From: "Argall Family" Subject: RE: Biodiesel Dale wrote >I am sure that as oil prices climb in the next few decades, biodiesel will become an important fuel. Oilseeds could be bred specifically for this use. another friend, Ray Peat, [ http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/ ] to whom I passed the original information on this has commented to me: >Then, Monsanto will discover that biodiesel fuel is better for human health than soybean oil. >Agricultural economists have said that modern methods use at least five calories of petroleum to produce one calorie of food. Producing the fuel oil from soybean oil would take additional energy. Using, e.g., ten gallons of petroleum to produce one gallon of diesel wouldn't be economical, unless the oil companies have come around to the idea that petroleum is being regenerated faster than we can use it. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:45:51 EDT From: Twittman@aol.com Subject: FOOD FOR THOUGHT--A VIDEO ABOUT GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOOD FOOD FOR THOUGHT--A VIDEO ABOUT GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOOD Do you know.that many of the foods on our supermarket shelves--including most of the soy, corn, and canola products--are geneticaly engineered? Do you know.that scientists are crossing species that would never breed in nature, such as tomatoes and fish, or toads and potatoes? How do you feel about eating genetically altered food that is actually a pesticide? None of these genetically engineered foods are tested or labeled by the government, yet many of us are unknowingly eating them every day. European countries are rejecting what many people are branding as "Frankenfoods". Here, in the U.S., the situation will only get worse until the American public demands the right to know which foods have been genetically altered. Are the genetic changes that are being engineered into thousands of foods safe? What are the movtives behind genetic engineering of our foods...? ...to help the human race? ...or to increase the profits of large multi-national corporations? FOOD FOR THOUGHT, a 30-minute video by award-winning director Ed Schehl describes the ethical concerns,the threats to organic farming, and the potential health hazards of genetically engineered foods. Consumer advocates, organic farmers and organic food producers examine how large chemical companies, such as Monsanto are profiting from genetic manipulation of our food supply and raise questions of government collusion. The video is a wake-up call and a call to action. For more information about FOOD FOR THOUGHT, contact The Video Project at (800) 4-planet or via e-mail: videoproject@videoproject.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:15:00 -0400 From: Tad Williams Subject: New Progressive Website Dear Sir or Madam, I thought you would be interested in checking out a new online resource for political progressives called www.ProgressivePubs.com Heres what weve got already: - An online database of more than 500 progressive foundations, which you can use for free to find out about their funding priorities, program officers, trustees, and contact information. - A bookstore featuring books, studies, and reports produced by progressive nonprofits, where you can do one-stop shopping on hot political issues. (If you belong to an organization that wants help marketing all that good work youve got sitting on the shelf, let us know.) In addition, were developing hopefully, with your assistance online databases of progressive professors, politicians, and organizations. Please visit us at www.ProgressivePubs.com You can also reach us by phone (202-238-0010), fax (202-238-0011), or mail (P.O. Box 11335, Washington, DC 20008). Other details about ProgressivePubs can be found on our web site. - Tad Williams, Marketing Director P.S. In case youre wondering, we got your e-mail address from one of the multiple-address e-mails weve received in recent months about one progressive cause or another. This is a one time announcement (we hate spamming as much as you do!). To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:12:30 -0500 From: "Wilson, Dale" Subject: RE: Biodiesel Dennis, I wrote: >> I am sure that as oil prices climb in the next few decades, >> biodiesel will become an important fuel. Oilseeds could be bred >> specifically for this use. Ray Peat wrote: >> ...will discover that biodiesel fuel is better >> for human health than soybean oil. There is an element of truth to this. High-oleic oilseeds yield a healthful oil (much like olive), also good for certain industrial uses. You wrote: > Agricultural economists have said that modern methods use at > least five calories of petroleum to produce one calorie of food. Don't believe everything you read, or assume the context of remarks like that, to be relevant. But even if that were true in the vegetable oil context, it won't be true in the future, when petroleum becomes expensive. Farmers are smart enough to produce crops with the resources at hand. They use a lot of petroleum now because the price is low. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:34:28 +1200 From: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz () Subject: Australian Canola has non-genetic edge Australia Canola has non-genetic edge - ABARE AUSTRALIA: June 16, 1999  SYDNEY - Australian guarantees that its canola was not genetically modified had underpinned expansion in its canola exports, the Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics (ABARE) said yesterday.  In its June quarter Australian Commodities, the government commodities analyst said Australian canola production in 1999/00 was forecast to exceed two million tonnes, yet another record. ABARE's latest forecast of canola production of 2.011 million tonnes is unchanged on its previous forecast and compares with 1.664 million tonnes production in 1998/99. Large amounts of Australian canola continued to be exported to destinations that were less sensitive to genetically modified seed, ABARE said. With genetically modified canola varieties likely to be available to Australian farmers in the next couple of years, the industry would have to consider segregating genetically modified and non-genetically modified canola, it said. After significant expansion of its canola production in the past two years, Australia was now the second largest exporter after Canada. Competition for export markets was likely to intensify in 1999/00 but Australia was likely to gain some benefits from its current non-genetically modified status, ABARE said. ABARE forecast that Australian canola prices would fall by 19 percent to an average A$285 a tonne in 1999/00. Nearly 1.6 million tonnes of Australian canola was forecast to be available for export in 1999/00, up by 26 percent on 1998/99.  REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1093 ******************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 22:14:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA23795 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA28397 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:35:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA28316 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA18771 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:31:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "'sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: globalization and small farmers in asia Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:31:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1335 fyi . . . impact of globalization on small farmers in asia . . . from the Far Eastern Economic Review - Interactive Edition E-Newsletter Version 1.0 for June 24 1999, Vol. 162, No. 25 cheers, craig RETHINKING ASIA The WTO's Big Losers By Walden Bello June 24, 1999 For many Asians, the stalemated candidacy of Thai Deputy Prime Minister Supachai Panitchpakdi for the post of director-general of the World Trade Organization is yet another sign of the unwillingness of the United States and other traditional trading powers to seriously accommodate the interests of East Asia in the international trading system. There is a good historical basis for this view. One major reason the loose General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade was transformed into the powerful World Trade Organization during the Uruguay Round of global trade talks was to contain the Asian economic challenge and prevent the diffusion of what was regarded as the mercantilist Asian development model. Many Asians also regard the Gatt-WTO Agreement on Agriculture as a mechanism for dumping U.S. grain surpluses in the region. The agreement will be the focus of global trade negotiations during the next few years. Whether or not a "Millennium Round" of comprehensive, multisectoral negotiations is launched, the 1994 Marrakesh Accord mandated the opening of new negotiations on agriculture at the end of this year. On the eve of those talks, the countries of East Asia are divided on whether to support further liberalization of agricultural markets. Northeast Asia, particularly Japan and South Korea, are opposed to more liberalization, fearing it would mean the extinction of their small rice farmers. Indeed, it is said that Japan is supporting the European Union's call for a new round of comprehensive negotiations to give it flexibility in defending agriculture. Southeast Asian countries find themselves on the other side of the fence. They are part of the Cairns Group, an informal bloc of big and medium-sized developed and developing agricultural exporters. The Cairns Group supports the broader and faster liberalization of agricultural markets via increased market access, an end to export subsidies and a decrease in production subsidies in the North. Interestingly, Southeast Asian governments find themselves on the same side as the U.S., which has joined with the Cairns Group to push for market opening in Japan and South Korea and an end to direct income subsidies for EU farmers. In a classic instance of double standards, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has stoutly defended forms of direct income subsidies for American farmers, but the Cairns Group seems unwilling to challenge Washington. The position of Southeast Asian governments, however, serves mainly organized lobbies of cash-crop exporters and processors such as Malaysian palm-oil plantations, Philippine coconut-oil exporters and Bangkok-based Thai rice middlemen. The vast majority of unorganized small farmers in these countries are harmed by this position. The quid pro quo of more open markets for products such as palm oil and coconut oil in the North is even greater liberalization of the rice and corn industries in Asia. Some agricultural experts warn that the governments of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations are allowing themselves to be dragged by hardline Cairns Group countries such as New Zealand and Argentina into positions that will ultimately bring great harm to their small producers. Rice farmers in Malaysia and rice and corn farmers in the Philippines already bear the brunt of the damaging effects of the Uruguay Round. Thai farmers are hardly benefiting; it's the Bangkok-based middlemen that are profiting from increased Thai rice exports. Further liberalization that serves mainly the interests of the American agricultural-product dumping lobby and a small elite of Asian agro-exporters will drive the region's small farmers over the edge. That's why it's important for Asean governments, small farmers and consumer groups to closely study the anti-liberalization arguments of the Japanese and South Korean governments. They say small-farm agriculture in Asia, though it may seem inefficient in terms of unit cost, actually produces net gains because agriculture is "multifunctional": It protects biodiversity, guarantees food security, promotes rural social development, is part of a nation's cultural heritage and enhances the regional landscape. Agriculture is more than just an area of production. It is, for millions in both Northeast and Southeast Asia, a way of life. The greatest threat to small-farm communities in Asia and throughout the world is further WTO-decreed liberalization of agricultural markets. Free marketeers say greater openness will bring greater efficiency, though they fail to show how this squares with the fact that the main beneficiaries will be subsidized U.S. and European farm interests. The likely outcome of such openness is the bankruptcy of small farmers and their transmogrification into marginalized masses pouring into Asia's big cities. Like Asia as a whole in the WTO process, Asia's small farmers have been big losers in the global trade-liberalization game. It's time to stop the bleeding. The writer is professor of sociology and public administration at the University of the Philippines and co-director of Focus on the Global South, a programme of the Chulalongkorn University Social Research Institute. craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 17 22:25:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA23925 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA09562 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:50:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA09477 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.23] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:49:34 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:52:11 -0400 Subject: Assistant Farmer Job Opportunity From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990618014934994.AAA243@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.23]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1336 Good Earth Farm, Buena Vista, Virginia has a job opening for an assistant farmer to help with market gardens, free range poultry, farm school and construction projects. We are a 40-acre diversified farm in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. We raise melons, strawberries, brambles, asparagus, meat goats, free range broilers, layers and turkeys, bush hogs and grass fed beef. We sell our farm products through our farm shop and to local health food stores and restaurants. We will train the right candidate, but would prefer someone with a farm background or work experience, and a sincere interest in organic and sustainable agriculture. Interest in carpentry and house building is a plus. Must be self-starting, able to work without close supervision, willing to learn new tasks and follow directions and have a desire to live the farming lifestyle. Starting pay is $300 per week. Housing is not included but is readily available in nearby Lexington or Buena Vista. Contact Andy Lee, Good Earth Farm School, 540-261-8775. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 18 00:31:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26274 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA28345 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:47:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA28280 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default ([12.70.17.55]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990618034633.JDQP15914@default>; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 03:46:33 +0000 Message-ID: <3769C4B0.7B4B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:01:52 -0400 From: Linda Ray Organization: Linda Ray Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gcr@rhealiving.com CC: LINDARAY@worldnet.att.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Goats as Predator Control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1337 Hi Donna, I was at a SSAWG Conference in Florida a year or so ago and we wound up at an Ag. Experiment Station test plot, where there were two of the most beautiful, fit and healthy horses I've ever seen running and playing in an adjacent pasture. There was a goat (with horns) in the pasture, running with these two gorgeous horses. I commented to the SSAWG Board Prez on the exquisite grace of these horses, and that the goat was obviously having a ball in there with them. He said to me, 'You know why that goat's in there, don't you?'. I said, "No--Why?". He said, 'The goat is in there to protect those horses. Otherwise wild dogs might get in there. The goat being there keeps them away. They won't come in.' As I remember now, he said it had something to do with the goat's horns. Now, I have to tell you that this was also the biggest goat I've ever seen. And, of course, it was quite healthy and had its horns. I am about 5'9" and this goat came up probably to my ribs. Not one of those little cute short breeds. This goat would have been taller than any dog I can think of, except maybe an adult Great Dane. I have no idea what kind it was. I realize some folks may disagree but FWIW, I thought I'd pass this on. Regards, Linda To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 18 16:59:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20870 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA05926 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mx.seanet.com (dns2.seanet.com [199.181.164.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05882 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from asus (i20.dialup.seanet.com [207.12.128.20]) by mx.seanet.com (8.9.3/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06291 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:08:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Darlene Lang" To: "Sustainable Agriculture" Subject: Food Grade Milo Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:26:06 -0700 Message-ID: <000001beb9c8$cb012440$14800ccf@asus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1338 Does anyone out there have any experience with organic food grade milo? I'm interested in finding someone who has it for sale. Thanks, Darlene darlenelang@seanet.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 18 17:08:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA21027 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11639 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:13:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11622 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 1Cust161.tnt7.dial.ams3.nl.uu.net by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust95.tnt3.dial.ams3.nl.uu.net [212.136.243.95] with SMTP for id WAA22481 (8.8.8/1.18); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:13:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199906182013.WAA22481@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> From: "Frits v/d Laan" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:08:37 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: mildew question Reply-to: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net In-reply-to: <199906171430.KAA17504@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1339 I would like to know anyone who tried something like this before. To prevent mildew I use some organic extractions and I would like to add mildew itself as a spray. because most plants have different types of mildew I would like to use mildew from one of the very sensitive weeds that grow and allready are white from the fungus and make a thea or spray from this. Then spray the cultivated plants with this and wait for the natural reaction from the plants or from other fungi that protect the plants by destroing the mildew. (Vaccination principle) Does someone know something about this. Frits v/d Laan Organic horticulture. Gouda - Netherlands http://web.inter.nl.net/users/F.vd.Laan/ mail f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 18 21:50:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25471 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA14172 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:49:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14115 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-7.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.151]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA31015; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:50:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199906190050.TAA31015@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Roberto Verzola" , Subject: Re: electric fencing Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:50:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1340 I would suggest sustainable ag connection web site. Is Craig Cramer reading for web address? Also, I'm just a little biased, but there is some information on fencing on www.grassfarmer.com Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp ---------- > From: Roberto Verzola > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: electric fencing > Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 5:34 AM > > Can somebody please describe how electric fencing (for swine, cattle, > etc.) looks like, and what are the specs (voltages, wire sizes, > current capacities, etc.)? I need enough info to be able to make one > ourselves. > > We'd like to try an approach described in a much earlier post, setting > up an electric fence around an area and confining pigs there to > prepare the land for planting. > > Regards, > > Roberto Verzola > Philippines > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 19 05:01:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA28981 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 05:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA15464 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:24:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [194.126.82.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA15450 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p0bs14a06.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.222.12] helo=globalnet) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 10vGQZ-00080y-00 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:24:39 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01beba2d$7ce61260$0cde93c3@co.uk> From: "Alan Sloan" To: References: <199906152210.SAA20531@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Subject: Fertility modelling Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 01:44:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1341 Some time ago I recall someone being interested in modelling fertility. I'm forwarding a note from another interested party which turned up on another ng from Lois Agnew at mesroqilar@ameritech.net (Snip discussion of philosophy of sustainability)... ...These are good points, ones that I have been working on also. The underlying question is how does an ecosystem work? The problem with civilization is that we extract mineral potential from the soil faster than it can be replaced. In actuality, according to Connor and Shacklette in a 1970 USGS paper on agricultural minerology, 80% of our soil's nutrients are lost simply to erosion. This I purport is due to monoculture, another symptom of idealism-oversimplification, the main subject of the alphabet. In a Ukrainian study, done sometime in the 1970s (Sorry, I lost the reference) a group of students did a census of all the plant species on a 20 year old meadow. They then did a total mineral analysis of a representative sampling of each species. They found that none of the species' mineral compositions matched that of the soil, but combined, they matched it almost exactly. Since a soil's mineral composition reflects that of the underlying bedrock, it appears that species diversity plays a role in accumulating a soil's entire potential. This has got to be a clue as to how nature mitigates erosion. I suggest we investigate a wider array of plant species for food sources as well as simply for agricultural tools (...plants are nuclear powered tools). I have been collecting mineral analyses of whole plants (including roots) and recently insects, for several years and have learned quite a bit about species relations and soil erosion by plugging this information into a multidimensional linear regression, calling the error erosion. The program was recently translated from Commodore Basic into JAVA (by me) and lost a lot of its flexibility. Eventually some of the more experimental processes will be available at 06HORTICULTURE. For more superficial arguments finding the alphabet as the source of western values, see my website "Beyond Radical Deep Ecology" Lou Agnew To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 19 07:06:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA29489 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA27977 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 06:22:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mx03.together.net (mx06.together.net.120.97.204.IN-ADDR.ARPA [204.97.120.66] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA27910 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 06:21:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoo.uvm.edu (dial-298-btvt.udial.together.net [209.91.1.238]) by mx03.together.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02533 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 06:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <376B7D37.52001983@zoo.uvm.edu> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 06:21:28 -0500 From: Fred Magdoff Reply-To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: coke and the food system Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1342 Sanet folks interested in the food system,

        In yesterday's Wall Street Journal (June 18) in a story about the problems that Coca-Cola Co. is having, there is an amazing statistic.

         14% (that's fourteen percent) of all daily fluid intake (including tap water) for the US population is of products manufactured by Coke!

    FRED To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 19 09:05:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA00232 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA23076 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:26:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f178.hotmail.com [207.82.251.64]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA23064 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:26:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25986 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jun 1999 12:26:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19990619122619.25985.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.22.149.101 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 05:26:19 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.22.149.101] From: "J.S." To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: coke and the food system Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 05:26:19 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1343 don't forget just how many companies coke owns... minute maid etc etc >From: Fred Magdoff >Reply-To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu >To: sanet >Subject: coke and the food system >Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 06:21:28 -0500 > ><< text1.html >> _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 19 11:17:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01661 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11097 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:23:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11050 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21380 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA00432; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:21:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <376BA8B7.C52A0ED8@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:27:04 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net, Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: mildew question References: <199906182013.WAA22481@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1344 Mildews (both powdery and downy) are _highly_ specific. If you have weeds with a mildew, spraying the mildew will possibly cause the other weeds of that species to become infested. However, little or no reaction will occur on planted crops (unless closely related to the weed). Also, powdery and downy mildew conidia (reproductive structures) are highly hydrophobic and therefore difficult to get into solution. this would be a good idea. No harm will come to your crop, and the sensitive weed may succumb to mildew. . .Russ Frits v/d Laan wrote: > I would like to know anyone who tried something like this before. > To prevent mildew I use some organic extractions and I would like to > add mildew itself as a spray. > because most plants have different types of mildew I would like to > use mildew from one of the very sensitive weeds that grow and > allready are white from the fungus and make a thea or spray from > this. > Then spray the cultivated plants with this and wait for the natural > reaction from the plants or from other fungi that protect the plants > by destroing the mildew. > (Vaccination principle) > Does someone know something about this. > > Frits v/d Laan > Organic horticulture. Gouda - Netherlands > http://web.inter.nl.net/users/F.vd.Laan/ > mail f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 19 12:29:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02105 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:29:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21442 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:22:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21393 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maxnigh.artelco.com (c2-md25.artelco.com [204.180.112.85]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA26824 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:19:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990619095745.00834c70@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:57:45 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA21398 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1345 Dear SANET, The argument presented here seems a little strange. Vanadium is an essential element, though not much is really known about its functions. It seems to work in some N fixing systems to replace Mo, as we have commented on this list. It is necessary in such small quantities that defciencies do not seem to have been reported, as I recall. It seems highly unlikely that millions of years of plant evolution would result in plants being so easily "fooled" by an element that is so widespread. Certainly, there are levels of V, particularly with respect to other trace elements, that could be excessive or at least be suboptimal for plant health. I find it hard to believe that "root cells can't tell them apart" (i.e. V and P). I think it would be important to consider this problem in the overall context of the mineral content and availability of the particular soil in question and the other factors affecting P. >MORRIS, Minn., June 16--Gardeners and farmers who are used to >checking the >N-P-K (nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium) levels on their >fertilizer bags may >someday be checking N-P-K-V levels in their soil. That's V for vanadium. > >Vanadium "impersonates" phosphorus and can confuse a plant into >eating it >instead of phosphorus. That can cause the plant to experience a >phenomenon >akin to that of people who eat junk food in place of a nutritious meal, >reports soil scientist Alan F. Olness with the USDA's >Agricultural Research >Service. >(snip) >"Phosphorus is an essential nutrient plants need for growth. >But vanadium, a >trace element abundant in soils throughout the world, is useless to many >plants, including corn, soybean, tomatoes, Impatiens and petunias." >(snip) >During a growing season," he said, "plants may have only two >or three time >windows during which they can take in phosphorus. If they fill up on >vanadium instead, they miss out on phosphorus, because their root cells >can't tell them apart. Their growth and development--and >yields--suffer. The >more vanadium, the more the plant slows down and the lower the >yield. For >ornamentals, the slowdown could result in less beauty and hardiness." > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 19 20:45:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA06651 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA03891 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:02:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA03877 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id TAA02102; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:00:39 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma002080; Sat, 19 Jun 99 19:00:19 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:00:18 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDC2@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:00:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1346 Ronald, > Certainly, there are levels of V, particularly with respect > to other trace elements, that could be excessive or at least > be suboptimal for plant health. I find it hard to believe > that "root cells can't tell them apart" (i.e. V and P). I > think it would be important to consider this problem in the > overall context of the mineral content and availability of > the particular soil in question and the other factors > affecting P. I was curious so I searched for info on vanadium toxicity. I didn't find anything in the literature suggesting that this is an important problem, but I did find out about the mechanism of toxicity. It does mimic phosphate, inhibiting plasmamembrane ATPase, and so inhibits active transport of PO4 and everything else. Vanadium (V) also oxidizes ascorbate producing free radicals and associated membrane damage. If you want the 8 abstracts I found, let me know. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 19 20:51:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA06685 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA13031 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:14:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA13020 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA28508 for ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id TAA03505; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:14:39 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma003477; Sat, 19 Jun 99 19:14:18 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:14:18 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDC3@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: Sustainable Ag Subject: RE: mildew question Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:14:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1347 Russ, Frits wrote: >> Then spray the cultivated plants with this and wait for the natural >> reaction from the plants or from other fungi that protect the plants >> by destroing the mildew. You wrote: > this would be a good idea. No harm will come to your crop, > and the sensitive weed may succumb to mildew. . .Russ That is not what Frits was getting at. He wants to induce resistance to pathogenic strains of mildew by spraying with nonpathogenic strains. That is a neat idea, maybe it can work. There are chemicals that induce systemic resistance when sprayed on plants. This is a hot topic in the ag chemical industry, and we are trying out an inducer to control rust and other diseases in corn seed production. Jasmonate and salicylic acid are inducers, and I have heard (but not tried) that aspirin does interesting things on plants (including killing at sufficient dose). Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 20 10:14:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13865 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04252 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:39:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04247 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.170] (dial202.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.202]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14670 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:38:57 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:38:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Integrating chickens into greenhouses Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1348 Dear sanet, Does anyone have information or contacts for people who have successfully integrated chickens into greenhouses? Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 20 10:15:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13875 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04110 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:36:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04084 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.170] (dial202.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.202]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA14579 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Feeding sprouted grains to chickens Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1349 Dear sanet, Does anyone have a source of nutritional information for sprouted grains like wheat, oats and barley? I'm working with a poultry grower who is experimenting with locally available grains and we're trying to figure out rations... Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 20 12:07:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14766 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA17820 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:27:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17711 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:31:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Grower info: Albrecht short course Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:31:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1350 Hello, If possible, would you please post the following? Your help in getting this information out is most appreciated, thank you. Sincerely, Brenda Roberts, Executive Director The Center For Living In Harmony Little Creek Acres Farm Voice: 760-749-9634 www.livinginharmony.org info@livinginharmony.org July 12-16 Valley Center, CA USA Feeding and Balancing the Soil A 5-day intensive short course on the Albrecht System of Sustainable Soil Fertility taught by global soils expert Neal Kinsey. For more information on the course, book, or audio transcript you may contact: The Center For Living In Harmony Little Creek Acres Farm Voice: 760-749-9634 http://www.livinginharmony.org info@livinginharmony.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 20 12:12:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15097 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA23064 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:37:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA23050 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn26tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.155]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21710 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:38:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:38:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906201538.KAA21710@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: Chickens in a greenhouse Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1351 Nathan wrote: > > Does anyone have information or contacts for people who have >successfully integrated chickens into greenhouses? > We used to raise our baby chicks in 'Elliot Coleman' style hoop coops(recently we built a 26 x 70 foot steel frame greenhaus). They are twelve feet wide, twenty feet long, with fiberglass hoops supporting the greenhaus plastic. The ends were laminated wood arches I built with nearly full size openable doors on each end. The inside was arranged with two bays of growing tables, one one either side of a center 'walkthru'. Beneith each bay are isolatable pens that the baby chucks were raised in. The heat lamps for the chucks served dual purposes of keeping the animals warm and comfortable and heating the underside of our germination tables. It worked really swell! We kept the chucks in their little pens till they started to look crampt, and then opened up the center walk isle for them. As soon as they started to get up on the tables where the vegies grew, we shipped them off to our chicken tractors(about 4-6 weeks). One can raise about 200 chucks, starting with day olds, in a hoopcoop. We would get 50 a week and rotate them thru the nursery and finally into the center isle. As spring progressed we kept adding bedding to the floor and by the time the everything in the greenhouse was planted outside, the chucks were of a size to survive nicely in our chicken tractors. The hoopcoop was then lifted off its site and the bedding forked into a nice compost heap, wet down, and let heat up. It cost us about $500.00 to build a hoopcoop and another $150.00 to upgrade it to a chuck nursery. It only became disgusting about two day a years when the weather was wet , warm and humid. We never had any disease problems, in fact everything grew like a budget deficet! I really like the system as it is not capital intensive and is of perfect size for our 'scale of opperation'. The hoopcoops themselve are light enough for chicken tractoring, especially if you have 4 persons around to spend 10 minutes a day moving them. As the season progesses we salvage lumber tarps from the local lumber companies and use them for shade cloth to keep the chuck from premature frying. A hoopcoop will succcessfully raise out enough transplants to do a 40 or 50 member CSA(Community Supported Agriculture). As with any animal or greenhouse opperation, someone must tend it daily for temperature control, water and the like. You dasen't be too late in the morning adjusting things or plants will droop and chucks will wilt. We also sprout a lot of grain for our pigs and chickens, but that will have to wait for another day...off to the farm now! Greg Prairie Dock Farm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 20 13:15:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15576 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA00206 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:33:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00134 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10327 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id MAA21584; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <376D189A.80593FD8@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:36:43 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: mildew question References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDC3@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1352 Dale, Fritz, and others, It would work if a related plant were sprayed with a mildew from a closely related species. Most fungi don't cause disease on most plants. In fact, most fungi don't react to most plants at all (and vice versa). In order for the mildew to cause a reaction (induced systemic resistance, or systemic acquired resistance) on a plant, it must recognize "something" on the leaf surface (usually a protein, or cuticular component) and germinate, then the plant would react to the mildew. There are (as Dale points out) certain chemicals that cause plants to turn on these universal defenses (Actiguard, by Novartis, is one. Salicylic acid is another component, phosphoric acid is a third). Also, physical damage to plant can induce some plant protective compounds. Mildews are just too specific. The important thing to remember is that most plant pathogens don't cause plant disease on most plants. Disease is always the exception. Reactions to pathogens go from none to resistant reactions to susceptible reactions (disease). These, while definable, are arbitrary labels, and a continuum exists. There is also a range of disease causing organisms. Mildews and rusts are known as biotrophs. They require a living host to provide nutrients, and cannot be grown on artificial media. Mildews usually (and there are always exceptions) have a race-cultivar type of interaction. That is, a race of one species of mildew will grow on a specific cultivar of host, and not another cultivar of the same host species. (this is a generalization, since there are all sorts of this type of interaction, including species-species, species-genus, etc.) Rusts are usually the same way. Sclerotium rolfsii, on the other hand is a necrotroph, deriving it's nutrient from the dead host cells. Sclerotium rolfsii has more than 500 host species. These are extremes for generalizations. The world isn't so simple. One genus (Phytophthora) has several species that can attack a large number of plant species (P. cinnamomi, P. parasitica, P. cactorum, and P. nicotianae) and one species that attacks only two species (P. infestans, causes late blight of potato and tomato). Wow, that was a lot longer than I thought it was. For those that are still reading, I apologise for the impromptu lecture on plant pathology, and thank you for your attention. I'll step down from my soapbox now. . .Russ "Wilson, Dale" wrote: > Russ, > > Frits wrote: > >> Then spray the cultivated plants with this and wait for the natural > >> reaction from the plants or from other fungi that protect the plants > >> by destroing the mildew. > > You wrote: > > this would be a good idea. No harm will come to your crop, > > and the sensitive weed may succumb to mildew. . .Russ > > That is not what Frits was getting at. He wants to induce resistance to > pathogenic strains of mildew by spraying with nonpathogenic strains. That > is a neat idea, maybe it can work. There are chemicals that induce systemic > resistance when sprayed on plants. This is a hot topic in the ag chemical > industry, and we are trying out an inducer to control rust and other > diseases in corn seed production. Jasmonate and salicylic acid are > inducers, and I have heard (but not tried) that aspirin does interesting > things on plants (including killing at sufficient dose). > > Dale -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 20 13:32:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15676 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA03920 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:54:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA03893 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:58:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'PamMurray'" Subject: CSAS Publishes Volume 10 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:58:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1353 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Pam Murray Subject: CSAS Publishes Volume 10 "Small Farming Systems for the Midwest and Reintegrating Agriculture and Community in the Midwest" is the tenth in the green volume series, Extension and Education Materials for Sustainable Agriculture, published by the Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems (CSAS). The 166-page volume, edited by Richard Olson (CSAS) and Lisa Bauer (NCR-SARE), contains the proceedings of a seminar series held fall 1998 and spring 1999 at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. The seminar series was designed to showcase farmers and other participants in the food system who are successfully pursuing local, equitable, and sustainable strategies. The credibility of these alternatives comes from their successful implementation in the real world. They are not simply some academic theory - they work. Abstracts of the seminars and the seminar schedule can be found at http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas/majorsem.htm. The fall 1998 series titled "Small Farming Systems for the Midwest" examined alternative farming systems that are able to remain economically viable without becoming large. Farmers from five states described successful systems including market gardens, agroforestry, diversified crop/livestock, and even a winery - perhaps the ultimate on-farm value-added enterprise. The spring 1999 series, "Reintegrating Agriculture and Community in the Midwest," explored approaches to providing a more supportive environment for small farms through the relocalization of agriculture and the development of stronger ties between agriculture and the community. A successful local food system has to be a partnership between urban and rural, producer and consumer. Community Supported Agriculture, farmers' markets, urban gardens, and other mechanisms for developing partnerships are described by those who have worked with them. Other topics include strategies for preserving farmland from urban sprawl, and legal issues in direct farm marketing. Volume 10 contains a total of 22 papers. Chapter contents of Volume 10 as well as information on other publications of the CSAS can be found at http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas/reports.htm. To order, send a check payable to the University of Nebraska for $10.00 US (note that it is for Volume 10) to: Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, University of Nebraska, PO Box 830949, Lincoln NE 68583-0949. (Price includes s&h in US; for air book rate to Canada, add $5; air rate to other countries, check with the CSAS office - this applies to all volumes in the series.) Orders will be shipped out after July 5. For questions, contact Pam Murray at the CSAS office, 402-472-2056, pmurray1@unl.edu. Note: Thanks to support from the NCR SARE office, all seminars are available on videotape, which can be rented ($5) or purchased ($10) from our Communications and Information Technology office, 402-472-3035. *********************** Pam Murray, Coordinator Center for Grassland Studies and Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems PO Box 830949 University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 phone: 402-472-9383 fax: 402-472-4104 e-mail: csas001@unlvm.unl.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 20 19:54:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA19261 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02210 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:24:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fep4-orange.clear.net.nz (fep4-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02031 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tim (b001-m005-p054.wgtn.clear.net.nz [203.167.241.54]) by fep4-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.2) with SMTP id LAA06122; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:24:17 +1200 (NZST) From: "Tim Jenkins" To: Subject: Re: mildew question Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:26:53 +1200 Message-ID: <01bebb74$6164a9a0$011e1465@tim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1354 The idea of collecting spores (conidia) from one species and spraying them on a crop to give protection from the crop's own form or species of powdery mildew is an interesting one. If it worked, it would probably be through what's called "induced resistance" - the promotion of the crop's plants resistance to infection. This has been seen with some rust fungi and is certainly possible with powdery mildew. Examples with rust fungi usually involve a strain of rust to which the host plant has some resistance; inoculation with this strain may reduce the infection caused by subsequent inoculation with a strain to which the plant is not resistant. I have certainly seen resistance reactions of some plants to powdery mildew which is not suited to that species. The resistance reactions can involve plant cells dying rather than being parasitised by the fungus. There is likely to also be some production of "secondary chemicals" (a handy term for often complex molecules formed by organisms where the molecule is not of direct metabolic use but is often involved in warding off pathogen and pest damage etc). The production of any anti-fungal compounds would be induced resistance and may reduce the infection from the proper form of mildew. One of the many problems with taking advantage of this phenomenom would be that you may need to find a powdery mildew form that is closely related to one that attacks your crop plant. Generally this would be a powdery mildew form that you've collected from a plant reasonably closely related to your plant. E.g. for lettuce powdery mildew you could collect Erysiphe cichoracearum spores off Calendula (same species of powdery mildew on both lettuce and Calendula but very likely different forms i.e. formae speciales). Erysiphe cichoracearum is reported on members of over 15 plant families but depending on definition true members may be only present on members of the daisy family and within this family there are many formae speciales which to varying extents will only infect 1,2, 3 or more species to any extent. As Russ wrote, conidia are difficult to get in solution. It is better with some surfactant or soap. Spores could either be collected by soaking infected leaves (leaves can be dried first and with some species, dry leaves can be left in a paper bag for several months and the powdery mildew spores will be alright for use when they are needed. Spores could also be collected dry by brushing them off infected plants. One of the best ways to control powdery mildew without chemicals is to regularly wet the plant surface especially with soapy water. This is because powdery mildew although needing moisture at first for spore germintation but thereafter the powdery mildew mycelium grows on the outer surface of the plant and is inhibited by too much moisture. This is the reason why powdery mildew is favoured by dry weather in contrast to other fungal diseases e.g. downy mildews/rusts and general rots. Because of the effect of just water and soap on reducing powdery mildews, you should try out how effective a powdery mildew "vaccination" spray was compared to just soap and water. Any induced resistance would be temporary. A better way perhaps of inducing resistance is to use a plant extract. Some plants if dried, ground and soaked in water will provide the sort of response you are looking for, reducing powdery mildew and other diseases. Try Reynoutria (used to be Polygonum) sacchalinensis (giant knotweed). I would be interested to hear of any results (or lack of) with the mildew spray. Tim Dr Tim Jenkins SoilTech P.O. Box 558 CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND > >Mildews (both powdery and downy) are _highly_ specific. If you have weeds >with a mildew, spraying the mildew will possibly cause the other weeds of that >species to become infested. However, little or no reaction will occur on >planted crops (unless closely related to the weed). Also, powdery and downy >mildew conidia (reproductive structures) are highly hydrophobic and therefore >difficult to get into solution. > >this would be a good idea. No harm will come to your crop, and the sensitive >weed may succumb to mildew. . .Russ > >Frits v/d Laan wrote: > >> I would like to know anyone who tried something like this before. >> To prevent mildew I use some organic extractions and I would like to >> add mildew itself as a spray. >> because most plants have different types of mildew I would like to >> use mildew from one of the very sensitive weeds that grow and >> allready are white from the fungus and make a thea or spray from >> this. >> Then spray the cultivated plants with this and wait for the natural >> reaction from the plants or from other fungi that protect the plants >> by destroing the mildew. >> (Vaccination principle) >> Does someone know something about this. >> >> Frits v/d Laan >> Organic horticulture. Gouda - Netherlands >> http://web.inter.nl.net/users/F.vd.Laan/ >> mail f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >- -- >Russ Bulluck >Ph.D. Candidate >Department of Plant Pathology >North Carolina State University >PO Box 7616 >Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 > >http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 20 21:10:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19888 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA20370 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:39:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fep4-orange.clear.net.nz (fep4-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA20204 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tim (b001-m005-p054.wgtn.clear.net.nz [203.167.241.54]) by fep4-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.2) with SMTP id MAA06436; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:39:18 +1200 (NZST) From: "Tim Jenkins" To: Subject: Re: Vanadium: Nature's "Junk Food" For Plants Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:41:54 +1200 Message-ID: <01bebb7e$dc20c0c0$011e1465@tim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1355 Vanadium can take the form of vanadate (V5+) which has the same bipyramidal structure of ligands (i.e. with oxygen and hydroxyl groups) as phosphate. Therefore vanadium could compete with phosphate for uptake by plants but the significance of this would depend on the relative levels of vanadate and phosphate. Vanadium can be at high levels in some plants e.g. parsley at 30 ppm but just 10% of that in lettuce. This is much lower than the levels of phosphorus e.g. 5000 ppm and so the uptake of phosphorus may not be a significant problem. The inhibition of Na+-K+ ATPase seems to be to be much more of a possibility. At very low levels, vanadate can have a significant effect on this enzyme which mistakes the vanadate for phosphorus and becomes locked in an unusable form. I am going to be looking in to the significance of this and would appreciate any more information that is out there. It could be, of course, that any relationship between vanadium levels and phosphorus availability/uptake could just be due to soil type difference and it just happens that the soil types that have lower P availability also have high vanadium levels. Vanadium is associated with ores and it is likely that high vanadium soils may be higher in aluminium and iron than other soils (iron and aluminium as well as potentially vanadium causing problems with P availability). I imagine that this has already been checked out to some extent. If it is established that vanadium is a significant problem I would be interested in how to test for it (probably a nitric/perchloric digest to get a total level?) and how to reduce its effects (e.g. liming?). Dale mentioned vitamin C being oxidised by vanadate. This is likely to be a vice versa thing in that excess vanadium levels can be controlled by vitamin C. The trick would then be to produce plants with as high levels of vitamin C and other antioxidants as possible - in other words produce high quality plants and vanadium problems could be limited. Tim Tim Jenkins SoilTech P.O. Box 558 CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND > >I was curious so I searched for info on vanadium toxicity. I didn't find >anything in the literature suggesting that this is an important problem, but >I did find out about the mechanism of toxicity. It does mimic phosphate, >inhibiting plasmamembrane ATPase, and so inhibits active transport of PO4 >and everything else. Vanadium (V) also oxidizes ascorbate producing free >radicals and associated membrane damage. If you want the 8 abstracts I >found, let me know. > >Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 00:42:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22784 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA21585 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:47:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21522 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.134]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA18904 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool185-pm3.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.116.185]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16469; Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <376C65B5.ABCC5A3D@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:53:25 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: mildew question References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDC3@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1356 Aha, so I guessed right. You ARE in the ag chemical industry . Poor you. But I should appreciate it if you tell me in what category you place 'inducers". Usually jasmonic acid/jasmonate come under a listing of hormones--a fairly new one, after the old ones--- cytokinins, etc. ====================== Wilson, Dale wrote: > Russ, > > Frits wrote: > >> Then spray the cultivated plants with this and wait for the natural > >> reaction from the plants or from other fungi that protect the plants > >> by destroing the mildew. > > You wrote: > > this would be a good idea. No harm will come to your crop, > > and the sensitive weed may succumb to mildew. . .Russ > > That is not what Frits was getting at. He wants to induce resistance to > pathogenic strains of mildew by spraying with nonpathogenic strains. That > is a neat idea, maybe it can work. There are chemicals that induce systemic > resistance when sprayed on plants. This is a hot topic in the ag chemical > industry, and we are trying out an inducer to control rust and other > diseases in corn seed production. Jasmonate and salicylic acid are > inducers, and I have heard (but not tried) that aspirin does interesting > things on plants (including killing at sufficient dose). > > Dale > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 07:09:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA25269 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA17570 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 05:50:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA17559 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 05:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA00977 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 05:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id EAA25909; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:50:26 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma025812; Mon, 21 Jun 99 04:49:43 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:49:43 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDC4@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Russ Bulluck'" , Sustainable Ag Subject: RE: mildew question Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:49:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1357 Russ, > I apologise for the impromptu lecture on plant pathology, > and thank you for your attention. Don't apologize, plant pathology is very interesting. > There are (as Dale points out) certain chemicals that > cause plants to turn on these universal defenses (Actiguard, > by Novartis, is one. Salicylic acid is another component, It would be nice if organic growers could turn on systemic acquired resistance (SAR) using non-synthetic chemicals. Can salicylic acid do this in a practical sense? > Mildews are just too specific. Since SAR is a fairly generalized response, it might be possible to turn it on in a plant using a non-specific, sub-virulent pathogenic assault. Are their less fastidious pathogens that one could brew up and spray on to trigger SAR, or would that be playing with fire? I am thinking of facultative saprophytes that will germinate and "attempt" to infect almost anything. > The important thing to remember is that most plant pathogens > don't cause plant disease on most plants. Disease is always > the exception. Reactions to pathogens go from none to resistant > reactions to susceptible reactions (disease). Don't certain bacteria colonize the leaf surface? It is amazing to me how seed-borne Xanthomonads and Pseudomonads can survive and propagate in plant canopies, causing disease even under arid conditions. They must have a very intimate relationship with the leaf surface. Of course, in the grand scheme of things fungi are much more important pathogens Could fungal triggers of SAR be put into leaf-surface bacteria to get generic SAR triggers? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 10:05:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27424 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:05:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA23687 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:37:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23656 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d18-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.18]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA29889; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:36:48 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "SANET" Cc: "Raymond Peat" Subject: RE: Biodiesel Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:40:03 +1000 Message-ID: <000101bebbe3$2ee6cac0$123325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990616230911.006c2738@wvu.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1358 I've been away (driving an economical and efficient diesel car and tractor) but need to respond to some comments and questions, which took the thread in different directions. Some writers defensively said that farmers would use fuel while it was cheap, would use less when it was not. But that was not quite the main point in nominating quantities of petroleum based oil required to produce quantities of seed oil. The simplest, clearest proposition surely is that it makes no sense to use a larger quantity of a fuel oil to make a smaller quantity of fuel oil. Is this the case? - that you have to use more than a gallon of petroleum based fuel to make a gallon of seed oil - as my friend Ray asserts. My understanding of the potential corrosive effect of this kind of fuel derives from correspondence with another, Belgian, friend who works in the German office of a Japanese car company (no bias there, eh?). He wrote to me some time ago as follows: "... in some European countries including Germany, you can buy "naturally grown" diesel fuel which means, that it contains a high percentage of rape seed oil. It burns quite well in the engine and does normally no harm to the injection pump (it lubricates even better than our low-sulphur regular diesel fuel) but the problem is that it may attack plastic or rubber material within the fuel delivery system. That is why some manufacturers recommend not to use it. For others, you can buy conversion kits including all sealants and gaskets and plastic parts made of special material. The total market share for such special fuel is still under 4% but it is slightly increasing and propagated by "green" politicians. If you are standing behind a car that uses this diesel fuel, you can smell it; it smells like somebody is making french fries next door." Ken had written: "As well, it is only fair to the guy who hand bred the rapeseed (no bio-engineering here, just stoop labour), to differentiate between rapeseed oil which is industrial stuff, and canola oil, which was specifically bred to be wholesome for us homer saps. In the provinces in Canada where canola its grown, it is illegal to grow rape seed for fear of cross-pollination and contamination. It's unfair and malicious to lump the two together, and I'm not sure what the agenda is here. Care to explain it? I acknowledge the clarification re rape and canola Ken, though I have not seen the case for canola being healthier for people than rape seed - but would be glad to know what it is. There was no malice intended in the lumping. I must say that I have moved in the past year or so to the view that unsaturated oils are not desirable human food, in the way that they are touted to be in conventional literature, and undoubtedly are among those who seek to produce a good product. They assumed a marketed dietary role notably after they lost ground to the petroleum oils in the paint market. They succeed as paint thinners because they form films and membranes. They 'rancidify' - to use the term of biochemistry texts - at room or body temperature. As they are, by definition, in their unsaturation, readily oxidised, they are primary candidates for combination with free radicals [active oxygen forms] arising from natural inefficiency in cellular metabolic processes. While they are effective as antifreeze for seed in frozen winter environments, their value to mammals running at 37c [98.6F] is not so clear to me, given that it is at such temperatures that they are vulnerable. We are encouraged to substitute unsaturated oils for saturated oils, especially where there is cholesterol at high levels in the blood. The irony is that the more unsaturated oil we consume, the more likely it is that our capacity to convert cholesterol to steroid hormones will be depressed - and thus, perhaps, the more likely to be higher blood levels (though there are lots of variables there, including exercise and overall diet). I know this sounds at odds with so much conventional wisdom. It did so to me when I first read these arguments from endocrine physiologist Ray Peat (see esp. nutrition papers at http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/ ) a year or so ago - which led me into biochemistry texts which seemed to support Peat rather than the heart industry arguments. That's a very brief explanation of my start point. I'm not sure that I was regarding it as an agenda, though perhaps it should be. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 10:10:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27491 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00734 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:07:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00711 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04693 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA12689; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <376E39B8.DABCAEF8@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:10:16 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: mildew question References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDC4@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1359 "Wilson, Dale" wrote: > Russ, > > > I apologise for the impromptu lecture on plant pathology, > > and thank you for your attention. > > Don't apologize, plant pathology is very interesting. > > > There are (as Dale points out) certain chemicals that > > cause plants to turn on these universal defenses (Actiguard, > > by Novartis, is one. Salicylic acid is another component, > > It would be nice if organic growers could turn on systemic acquired > resistance (SAR) using non-synthetic chemicals. Can salicylic acid do this > in a practical sense? > It would be nice. Salicylic acid is very difficult to get into plants, and I don't think it is UV stable. It is a signalling molecule in the SAR pathway, and can be found in the Xylem and intracellular matrix (I think). Phosphoric acid (found in Coca Cola) is better at turning on the SAR. I think that it is one of the major ingredients in Alloette (sp). One problem with turning on the SAR pathway is that the plant devotes a _large_ amount of energy producing compounds to prevent infection, and not on fruit production. > > > Mildews are just too specific. > > Since SAR is a fairly generalized response, it might be possible to turn it > on in a plant using a non-specific, sub-virulent pathogenic assault. Are > their less fastidious pathogens that one could brew up and spray on to > trigger SAR, or would that be playing with fire? I am thinking of > facultative saprophytes that will germinate and "attempt" to infect almost > anything. > In theory, yes. Are you playing with fire? Yes. The best thing to do might be to brew up a batch of _highly_ pathogenic bugs, and then boil the batch, and use the extract to spray. The extract may contain materials that could induce SAR. Of course, the extract could also contain heat-stabile enzymes that would kill your plants! I would do this with fungi, but not bacteria, and with _great_ caution. Better yet, I would let a university experiment station do this, and watch to see what happens to their fields! > > > The important thing to remember is that most plant pathogens > > don't cause plant disease on most plants. Disease is always > > the exception. Reactions to pathogens go from none to resistant > > reactions to susceptible reactions (disease). > > Don't certain bacteria colonize the leaf surface? It is amazing to me how > seed-borne Xanthomonads and Pseudomonads can survive and propagate in plant > canopies, causing disease even under arid conditions. They must have a very > intimate relationship with the leaf surface. Of course, in the grand scheme > of things fungi are much more important pathogens Could fungal triggers of > SAR be put into leaf-surface bacteria to get generic SAR triggers? > > Dale Sorry, I didn't mention bacteria or nematodes (or viruses for that matter) . Both of which can cause disease, and induce SAR (in fact the SAR phenomenon was first observed in TMV infection and subsequent TMV challenging to different leaves on the same plant). Most plant pathogenic bacteria (except for most of the Erwinia spp.) do tend to survive epiphitically, and will cause SAR to occur. Most often hypersensitive responses occur (a different phenomenon all together), and are usually caused by a direct genetic response. Once SAR is induced (by fungi, virus, herbivory, or bacteria) it can be effective against all pathogens. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 10:17:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27648 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA01044 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:08:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA00998 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906211308.JAA00998@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.100] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A8F4FE302E0; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:07:00 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:06:16 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Mildew, etc. Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1360 Time to pop in with a brief observation from a soil chemist's point of view. You can accomplish a lot by way of increasing resistance to fungal pathogens by making sure that the crop has abundant *available* calcium. Calcium plays a key role in strengthening plant pectins, and these pectins (in turn) often provide the most important barrier to the polygalcturonase used by many (most???) fungi to exploit an infection court when germinating. Anyone who has ever made a low-sugar jam using low-methoxy pectin (e.g. Pomona) has exploited this phenomenon to stiffen the pectin by adding small amounts of soluble calcium. There is also some benefit to be had from ensuring abundant manganese availability to the crop. This can be tricky because at low pH Mn is toxic, and in alkaline conditions is often unavailable. Manganese is polyvalent with a vengence (largely pH dependent), but high levels of the non-toxic forms will allow the plant to be somewhat more resistant to attack. Copper nutrition is also a potentially interesting element of plant health, though the information is rather more anecdotal than in the case of manganese. Increasing soil copper levels has been effective in greatly reducing white mould damage to edible beans in some areas of Michigan. Many Chilean grapes grow in high copper soils and rarely need a fungicide treatment, in spite of significant pressure. Warrants further study, in any case. What is interesting to note (a bit sad, even) is the extent to which the conventional research establishment has dismissed calcium, manganese, and copper, almoste entirely because they *don't increase yields.* We don't need *more* crops, we need HEALTHIER crops. It's easier and more profitable to let the crops get sick and subsequently treat them with something out of a bag. Add to good nutrient management some of the newer fungal antagonists (Trichoderma harzianum and some others) and you have the makings of a reasonably sound preventative program. It all begins in the soil. Bart Hall Lawrence, Kansas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 10:38:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28063 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29946 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:05:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29940 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06069 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA21152; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:05:32 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma021076; Mon, 21 Jun 99 09:05:26 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:05:26 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDC5@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Russ Bulluck'" Cc: Sustainable Ag Subject: RE: mildew question Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:05:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1361 Hi Russ, > Phosphoric acid (found in Coca Cola) is better at turning on > the SAR. I think that it is one of the major ingredients in > Alloette (sp). I believe it is salts of phosphorOUS acid (H3PO3) rather than PhosphorIC acid (H3PO4). This is confusing, since phosphorous acid is also called phosphonic acid. Rumor has it that spraying off-the-shelf phosphonate is almost as good as Aliette (aluminum ethyl phosphonate). Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 11:24:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29115 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21221 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:41:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21124 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06822 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA16758; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <376E4FC5.7F528306@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:44:21 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: mildew question References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDC5@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7D923694B488211CAEC4BA16" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1362 --------------7D923694B488211CAEC4BA16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Wilson, Dale" wrote: > Hi Russ, > > > Phosphoric acid (found in Coca Cola) is better at turning on > > the SAR. I think that it is one of the major ingredients in > > Alloette (sp). > > I believe it is salts of phosphorOUS acid (H3PO3) rather than PhosphorIC > acid (H3PO4). This is confusing, since phosphorous acid is also called > phosphonic acid. Rumor has it that spraying off-the-shelf phosphonate is > almost as good as Aliette (aluminum ethyl phosphonate). > Okay, I'm not a chemist. But I suspect you are right. I'm under the impression that Rhone-Poulenc has a "use-patent" on phosphonate. That you can't legally just spray phosphonate. Not sure. . . just what I've heard. . .Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------7D923694B488211CAEC4BA16 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

    "Wilson, Dale" wrote:

    Hi Russ,

    > Phosphoric acid (found in Coca Cola) is better at turning on
    > the SAR.  I think that it is one of the major ingredients in
    > Alloette (sp).

    I believe it is salts of phosphorOUS acid (H3PO3) rather than PhosphorIC
    acid (H3PO4).  This is confusing, since phosphorous acid is also called
    phosphonic acid.  Rumor has it that spraying off-the-shelf phosphonate is
    almost as good as Aliette (aluminum ethyl phosphonate).
     

    Okay, I'm not a chemist.  But I suspect you are right.  I'm under the impression that Rhone-Poulenc has a "use-patent" on phosphonate.  That you can't legally just spray phosphonate.  Not sure. . . just what I've heard. . .Russ
    --
    Russ Bulluck
    Ph.D. Candidate
    Department of Plant Pathology
    North Carolina State University
    PO Box 7616
    Raleigh, NC  27695-7616

    http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot
    be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person,
    and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil
    economy that it must be studied.
    --Sir E. John Russell
    The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      --------------7D923694B488211CAEC4BA16-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 11:34:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29400 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25478 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:50:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25373 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.32] (gl-ppp12.hevanet.com [204.119.60.32]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA21477; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906211450.HAA21477@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:47:42 -0700 Subject: FW: GOOD NEWS ON MISSISSIPPI GROUNDWATER From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1363 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: GOOD NEWS ON MISSISSIPPI GROUNDWATER Date: Mon, Jun 21, 1999, 6:05 AM NEWS RELEASE: GOOD NEWS ON MISSISSIPPI GROUNDWATER ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA June 21, 1999 Jim De Quattro, (301) 504-1626, jdequatt@asrr.arsusda.gov ----------- WASHINGTON, June 21--Is farm runoff damaging groundwater in Mississippi? No, at least not in a special U.S. Department of Agriculture project area in the Mississippi Delta, according to a comprehensive sampling project by scientists at USDA's Agricultural Research Service. "The scientists who made the measurements aren't stopping there," said ARS administrator Floyd P. Horn. "They plan to help growers in the Delta region improve water quality for wildlife surrounding their farms." The researchers' good news on water quality comes from one of the cooperative Management Systems Evaluation Areas, or MSEAs, that USDA has set up in seven states. "In these projects, ARS scientists and other federal and state agencies work in partnership with farmers to identify and control agricultural pollution," Horn said. "The farmers agree to try environmentally friendly land management strategies so scientists can evaluate their effectiveness." Many of these strategies protected groundwater. Data from the 7,320-acre MSEA in Sunflower and LeFlore Counties in the Mississippi Delta show contamination by farm chemicals is not a problem. The ARS scientists drilled about 100 wells--at depths of five, 10 and 15 feet--in watersheds around three lakes. They checked for 18 different farm chemicals. In three years, only five of 600 well samples showed pesticide residue. Even then, levels were within limits for drinking water. "The growers are gratified to learn local groundwater is fine and are interested in learning about how to use these 'best management practices' to protect lakes near their land," said Horn. The Mississippi Delta MSEA focuses on farmland erosion control and preventing sediment and chemical runoff into three oxbow lakes--Beasley, Thighman and Deep Hollow. Near 40-acre Thighman Lake, Floyd R. Anderson, Jr., grows 4,300 acres of soybeans, corn, rice and cotton. Tillage operations could contribute to soil erosion. But "why," Anderson asked, "would I make 10 or 12 tilling trips across a field and erode my soil--and pay $6 an acre each time to do it--when three or four trips will do?" Technology being tested in the Delta MSEA not only enhances the health of the lakes, thus increasing fish and duck numbers, but may also help growers reduce costs. Many farmers plant soil-protecting cover crops, but they have to replant them each year. ARS agronomist Seth Dabney is helping Anderson test an alternative. "Balansa clover adds about 75 pounds of crop-feeding nitrogen per acre to the soil every year it's used. It produces lots of seeds, so farmers don't have to replant annually," said Dabney, at ARS' National Sedimentation Laboratory, Oxford, Miss. Other ARS scientists working in the Mississippi Delta MSEA are based at the agency's Jamie Whitten Delta State Research Center in Stoneville, Miss. Besides monitoring groundwater, researchers are tracking effects of experimental farm practices and crop rotations on weeds, beneficial microbes in the soil and water, soil organic matter and soil nutrients. A story about the Delta MSEA project is in the June issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jun99/msea0699.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Seth Dabney, ARS National Sedimentation Laboratory, 598 McElroy Dr., Oxford, MS, 38655, phone (601) 232-2975, fax (601) 232-2915, dabney@sedlab.olemiss.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * For photos, media sources should contact ARS Photo Unit at (301) 504-1606 or arsphoto@asrr.arsusda.gov. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 13:05:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA01404 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA12494 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:08:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from milkyway.uark.edu (milkyway.uark.edu [130.184.7.93]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA12406 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by milkyway.uark.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13339 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:08:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 607u.uark.edu ([130.184.56.145]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id LAA23421 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:09:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906211609.LAA23421@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Holly Born" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:07:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Farmer-owned retail operations Reply-to: hollyb@ncatark.uark.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1364 Hello everyone, I have a request for case studies of farmers who market their own and other locally produced ag products through farmer-owned retail outlets on-farm or in town. The caller is particularly interested in dairy value-adding enterprises. I've referred him to the coordinator of the SARE-funded Hometown Creamery Revival project which is gathering this type of information, but I wonder if any of you can point me to other good sources of these kinds of case studies? Thanks very much for your help! Holly Born Holly Born, Program Specialist ATTRA (Appropriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas) PO Box 3657 Fayetteville, AR 72702 (501) 442-9824/1-800-346-9140 Fax:(501) 442-9842 E-mail:hollyb@ncatark.uark.edu Web:http://www.attra.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 19:57:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA13085 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA07664 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:25:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from computo.catie.ac.cr (sanjose4-a51.racsa.co.cr [196.40.0.243] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA07545 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from michaela.catie.ac.cr ([172.16.2.198]) by computo.catie.ac.cr (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA22077 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:22:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990621173604.006a1e28@computo.catie.ac.cr> X-Sender: schaller@computo.catie.ac.cr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:36:04 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: schaller@catie.ac.cr Subject: ecological agriculture in Latinamerica Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1365 Hello everyone, I have several requests regarding ecological agriculture in Latinamerica: does anyone have information or knows where to find it, about: market of organic products (vegetables, coffee, cacao) and future development of the demand for organic products in Latin/Centralamerica? effectiveness of natural pesticides in comparison to chemical ones (tests)? side-effects of herbicides/pesticides on the culture they are applicated to? thanks a lot Michaela Schaller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 21 22:08:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA14954 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA02359 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:31:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA02355 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:31:28 -0400 (EDT) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com (303) by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id 8ICWa07778; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <694a37d7.24a040ff@aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:29:35 EDT Subject: Re: Integrating chickens into greenhouses To: nrboone@roadrunner.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1366 Nathan - I remember reading in Mother Earth News and/or the Boston Globe about an amazing lady on Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, who had a very successful greenhouse business, heated and fertilized by chickens (housed at one end) and rabbits (at the other). I think it was called Sol Viva. Among other things, she shipped mesclun to fancy New York restaurants. The greenhouse was over 3,000 square feet and plants grew at three levels, using hangers and catwalks and such. Originally the air heated by the livestock was simply blown into the greenhouse, but that didn't work because of excess ammonia. Eventually a system evolved involving underground piping and air filtering material, which works fine and justifies the cost. As I recall, this was a very profitable business, back around 1994. (betty) Ann Gras To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 00:14:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA17210 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA02799 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA02752 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA17044; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA21529; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:48:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:48:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Holly Born cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Farmer-owned retail operations In-Reply-To: <199906211609.LAA23421@ncatark.uark.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1367 http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Holly Born wrote: > Hello everyone, > I have a request for case studies of farmers who market their own and > other locally produced ag products through farmer-owned retail > outlets on-farm or in town. The caller is particularly interested in > dairy value-adding enterprises. I've referred him to the > coordinator of the SARE-funded Hometown Creamery Revival project > which is gathering this type of information, but I wonder if any of > you can point me to other good sources of these kinds of case > studies? Nutter Dairy Nutter Farm Robert P. Nutter 3111 Dairyland Rd. Hillsboro, NC 27278 Phone: Chapel Hill: 919-929-6397 A _very_ successful local dairy (in Orange County, NC) selling to many local stores (Whole Foods, for one) - excellent milk, butter, cream, possibly other products. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 00:16:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA17259 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA28819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:38:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA28810 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d39-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.39]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA19742; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:38:50 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "SANET" Cc: "Raymond Peat" Subject: RE: Biodiesel and sustainability Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:42:11 +1000 Message-ID: <001201bebc61$362fbb60$113325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000101bebbe3$2ee6cac0$123325cb@p2> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1368 Recent writing by Thomas Gold http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/ [also has lots of background] offers an entirely different perspective, suggesting that underground resources may be renewable, more than agricultural resources. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 08:44:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA21817 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA19039 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:50:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA18921 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JCOS89E0IO001W1X@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:34:10 PDT Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:40:36 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:40:36 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:34:39 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems cont. To: "'Sustainable Agriculture List'" Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80E6@10.248.CABI.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_ZdvdhKUk7BsPEjek4TAQvg)" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1369 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_ZdvdhKUk7BsPEjek4TAQvg) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Apologies for having to reach Lena by this route (original enquiry via sanet). As you can see my message bounced, with some strange error messages and comments. Lena, I hope this reaches you. ================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:17:27 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" To: "'lena@ufrrj.br'" Subject: .RE: Brazilian tomato problems cont. Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients: Recipient address: lena@ufrrj.br Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address Diagnostic code: smtp; 550 Mail from to prohibited from your location (UNKNOWN@csi.cgnet.com ip=192.156.137.135) Remote system: dns; mailhub.ufrrj.br (TCP|192.156.137.135|2740|200.11.1.254|25) (s-ext.ufrrj.br SMTP ready, Who are you gonna pretend to be today?) (s-ext.ufrrj.br Is thrilled beyond bladder control to meet csi.cgnet.com) <> ========================================== Anton Doroszenko, Team Leader, Field Crops CAB International, Wallingford, Oxon, OX10 8DE, UK. Tel: +44-1491-829366 Fax: +44-1491-833508 E-mail: a.doroszenko@cabi.org Web: http://www.cabi.org/ http://www.cabweb.org/ ========================================== --Boundary_(ID_ZdvdhKUk7BsPEjek4TAQvg) Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-description: RE: Brazilian tomato problems cont. Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:17:27 -0700 From: "Doroszenko, Anton (CABI)" Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems cont. To: "'lena@ufrrj.br'" Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D80E5@10.248.CABI.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Lena Check out http://www.cabi.org/ for information on how to access our databases. If you still have problems with access to our abstracts, go to http://www.cabi.org/mail/webmast.htm for all the contact addresses. If you do not have web access, try e-mailing marketing@cabi.org. They will provide you with the best advice. Anton > -----Original Message----- > From: lena@ufrrj.br [SMTP:lena@ufrrj.br] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 5:49 PM > To: Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) > Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems cont. > > Date sent: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:33:45 -0700 > From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" > > Subject: RE: Brazilian tomato problems > To: "'Douglas M. Hinds'" , > "Anita Graf (Staff)" , sanet- > mg@ces.ncsu.edu > This sounds about right. There is apparently a small borer (more > problematic) and a large borer. > How can I get ahold of these CAB Asbracts from here? Is there > access over the internet? Also, to add to the discussion. The area > for planting is in the state of Rio de Janeiro on a plot of land that > has been used for organic expiramentally agriculture (at the > UFRRJ) for at least 10 years?? The area is lowland with hot, humid > and rainy summers and cool, dry winters. I can check on the soil > type if anyone is interested. > > Lena > > I found 31 hits on the CAB ABSTRACTS database since 1984 (I didn't check > > earlier than that). Most papers refer to Neoleucinodes elegantalis > > (Lepidoptera: Pyraustidae) as "tomato fruit borer". > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Douglas M. Hinds [SMTP:dmhinds@acnet.net] > > > Sent: 12 June 1999 07:16 > > > To: Anita Graf (Staff); sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > > > Subject: Re: Brazilian tomato problems > > > > > > > > > My bilingual CAB Lexicon of Entomological and Related Terms indicates > that > > > Neoleucinodes elegantalis (Gn.) is "a perforador del fruto del tomate" > > > (the definition is from Venezuela), with NO English common name given, > > > which suggests that this pest may be restricted to the Latin American > > > tropics and is not certainly a fungus. > > > > > > A search of the University of Hawaii database using Carlweb turned up > no > > > matches, which reinforces that supposition. Using Uncover gave the > same > > > negative results. Is this pest similar to a pin worm or a grub or a > > > weevil? > > > > > > On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > > > > > >Often times "sustainable" amounts to > > > >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > > > >the first place. > > > > > > What criteria are you applying to whether "something ought to be grown > in > > > a specific place"? > > > > > > >it may be time to reasses the planting regime from the beginning. > > > > > > Could you do that for us? > > > > > > >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > > > >still like to make a comment. > > > > > > Obviously. But why? Was this what you consider to be a philosophic > > > contribution, or perhaps metaphysical? You began with the following > > > supposition that was far from established: > > > > > > >If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > > > >sustainablity steps have been taken > > > > > > I suggest that attention be given toward resolving the underlying > > > problems, rather than supposing a given crop - in this case, a > tropical > > > fruit with a multitude of varieties that have adapted to a multitude > of > > > soil and climatic conditions, "ought not be grown in a specific > place". > > > > > > Lastly, a careful selection of seed sources for relatively resistant > (to > > > known local diseases), natural (not GMO) varieties is always a good > place > > > to start. The next step would be to contact the Brazilian / > Portuguese > > > equivalent of a "Centro de Investigacion sobre Control Biologico" or a > > > "Laboratorio de Reproducion de Organismos Beneficos", in order to > > > determine what they've got or could breed for you. (You will probably > > > have anticipate the pests that are likely to attack and contract the > > > breeding of both preventive and remedial beneficial organisms, to > order. > > > And may have to contract a series of tests first, in order to > determine > > > which variety or strain of which organism will prove most effective). > > > > > > Douglas Hinds > > > > > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > > > > > On 11/06/99 at 2:43 PM Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > > > > > >> There are no really good remedies for it here, either. Late blight > is a > > > >> major problem for tomato and potato growers in some areas, > regardless > > > of > > > >> what chemicals they use. We deal with it on our farm by using long > > > >> rotations (five years) and strict field sanitation (all residues > > > >> incorporated immediately after last harvest). > > > >> > > > >Uh, not having anything technical to add to this discussion, I would > > > >still like to make a comment. Often times "sustainable" amounts to > > > >figuring out if something ought to be grown in a specific place in > > > >the first place. When nature starts a full-on combat of something, > > > >it can sometimes mean that that something just isn't appropriate to > > > >the area. If soils are fertile and well cared for and other basic > > > >sustainablity steps have been taken and still it takes an arsenal of > > > >toxic chemicals (organic or not) to get a harvest, it may be time to > > > >reasses the planting regime from the beginning. Granted, I don't > > > >think that this kind of thinking comes naturally to us humans who are > > > > >forever trying to fit square pegs into round holes, but it should be > > > >considered. > > > > > > > >Anita > > > > > > > > > > > >Anita Graf > > > >313-F Conner Hall > > > >Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > > > >University of Georgia > > > >Athens, GA 30602-7509 > > > >(706) 542-1915 phone > > > >(706) 542-0739 fax > > > >agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > > > command > > > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --Boundary_(ID_ZdvdhKUk7BsPEjek4TAQvg)-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 09:26:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22540 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA21867 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:40:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from um-mail01.umsystem.edu (um-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.238.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA21811 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by um-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:40:53 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: "'PetersFarm@aol.com'" , nrboone@roadrunner.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Integrating chickens into greenhouses Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:40:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1370 There is a book called "Solviva: How to Grow $500,000 on One Acre & Peace on Earth" by Anna Edey, ISBN 0-9662349-0-1. It has just about everything in it concerning heating a greenhouse with animals. There is a couple in Southwestern Missouri that are making an attempt to do something similar. They received one of the MO Sustainable Ag Demonstration Award Grants a couple of years ago. I'm not sure how they are making out but could always find out if needed. debi kelly, MAC > -----Original Message----- > From: PetersFarm@aol.com [SMTP:PetersFarm@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 8:30 PM > To: nrboone@roadrunner.com; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Integrating chickens into greenhouses > > > Nathan - > > I remember reading in Mother Earth News and/or the Boston Globe about an > amazing lady on Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, who had a very > successful > greenhouse business, heated and fertilized by chickens (housed at one end) > > and rabbits (at the other). I think it was called Sol Viva. Among other > > things, she shipped mesclun to fancy New York restaurants. > > The greenhouse was over 3,000 square feet and plants grew at three levels, > > using hangers and catwalks and such. > > Originally the air heated by the livestock was simply blown into the > greenhouse, but that didn't work because of excess ammonia. Eventually a > system evolved involving underground piping and air filtering material, > which > works fine and justifies the cost. As I recall, this was a very > profitable > business, back around 1994. > > (betty) Ann Gras > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Jun 21 21:00:54 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13954 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA20612 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:28:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA20382; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:28:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08680; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19588; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:27:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.panups X-Conference: panna.panups From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Disaster in Paraguay To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 111 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1371 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Pesticide Disaster in Paraguay June 21, 1999 An international trade union federation has called upon a U.S.-based seed company to assume responsibility for the environmental and public health disaster created in Paraguay by its local subsidiary. The International Union of Food, Agricultural, Hotel, Restaurant, Catering, Tobacco and Allied Workers' Associations (IUF) is demanding that Delta & Pine Land, the world's largest cottonseed producer, remove pesticide-contaminated cotton seed that its subsidiary dumped near a rural community in Paraguay. Delta & Pine Land is in the process of being acquired by the Monsanto Company through a share swap to be completed later this year. Last November, 30,000 sacks of expired cottonseed, weighing approximately 660 tons, were dumped near a small village 120 kilometers from the capital Asuncisn. The seeds were treated with high concentrations of toxic pesticides, including the organophosphates acephate and chlorpyrifos. The label on the seed sacks states that the acephate compound (trade name: Orthene 80 Seed Protectant) "contains material which may cause cancer, mutagenic or reproductive effects based on laboratory animal data. Risk of cancer depends on duration and level of exposure." The sacks were spread over one-and-a-half hectares and were covered with only a thin layer of soil. The disposal site is on private land in the center of a rural population of three thousand and less than 170 meters from a primary school with 262 pupils. Symptoms of pesticide poisoning such as vertigo, nausea, headaches, neurological disorders, memory loss, insomnia and skin rashes, appeared immediately in the surrounding population and worsened after the first rains. On December 28, a local resident died. His official death certificate states that he was treated by the attending physician for "acute poisoning due to pollution caused by toxins of the Delta & Pine Land seed deposited on the property of Julio Chavez." According to his widow, he fell ill on December 26 and by the next day could no longer get out of bed. Mr. Ruiz, a father of five, was thirty years old at the time of his death. Medical testing of the residents has produced irrefutable evidence of acute pesticide poisoning. The Ministries of Agriculture and of Public Health have acknowledged the results of the tests but have not taken action. The IUF has met with the Minister of Health and the president of Paraguay, and has helped to organize demonstrations and support for the victims of the contamination. Still, the government refuses to act. In August, the case will be the subject of an inquiry in Asuncisn organized by the Ethical Tribunal against Impunity in Paraguay with the support of the Latin American Regional Secretariat of the IUF. The IUF is demanding: * Immediate action to remove the toxic seed and decontaminate the area; * Immediate and comprehensive medical treatment for the victims; * A program of long-term medical and environmental surveillance, including regular monitoring of water supplies; * Adequate compensation for the victims, their families and the wider community; * Full and public disclosure of the circumstances surrounding the dumping. The thirty thousand sacks of seeds buried in the area were part of a larger shipment of 84,000 bags of Delta & Pine Land cotton seeds authorized for importation by the Paraguayan Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock in 1997. There is no information about the location of the remaining seed. The IUF is trying to determine if the seeds were already past their expiry date at the time of export from the United States and whether they were exported rather than destroyed in the U.S. where costly disposal procedures would have been required. The International Union of Food, Agricultural, Hotel, Restaurant, Catering, Tobacco and Allied Workers' Associations (IUF) is an international trade union federation composed of 329 trade unions in 118 countries with an affiliated membership of 2.6 million members. It is based in Geneva, Switzerland. Source: IUF press release, June 15, 1999. Contact: International Union of Food, Agricultural, Hotel, Restaurant, Catering, Tobacco and Allied Workers' Associations (IUF), Rampe du Pont-Rouge, 8, CH-1213 Petit-Lancy, Switzerland; phone (41-22) 793 22 33; fax (41-22) 793 22 38; email iuf@iuf.org; web site http://www.iuf.org. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 12:03:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25473 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08823 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:50:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08727 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.186] (st-ppp12.hevanet.com [198.5.254.186]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA15870; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906221449.HAA15870@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:50:23 -0700 Subject: FW: Genetic Testing for Beef Leanness From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1372 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Genetic Testing for Beef Leanness Date: Tue, Jun 22, 1999, 5:54 AM STORY LEAD: Genetic Testing Helps Single Out Leanness Gene ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov June 22, 1999 ----------- Genetic testing of cattle may soon help breeders plan sure-bet matings to make production more efficient and ensure consumers get lean but tender steaks. The key to this approach, according to Agricultural Research Service scientists, involves raising cattle with just one copy of a gene called inactive myostatin. Before birth, a calf with no copies of the inactive form produces a protein that limits the animal's potential to produce lean beef. ARS scientists at the Roman L. Hruska U.S. Meat Animal Research Center (MARC), Clay Center, Neb., found that carcasses from cattle with one inactive myostatin gene typically yield about 7 percent more edible lean beef than those from cattle without the gene. And the untrimmed carcasses have 14 percent less overall fat. A calf with two copies of inactive myostatin is extremely muscular in the hind quarters. That condition, called "double muscling," is undesirable because birth assistance is often needed. So the goal would be to produce slaughter animals with only one inactive copy of the gene. To do that and plan matings for herd replacements, breeders could use a genetic test to determine which forms of the genes animals have. Last fall, ARS and Celera AgGen, a PE Corporation business, entered a two-year Cooperative Research and Development Agreement to develop a genetic test aimed for commercial use. MARC research shows that cattle with the inactive myostatin produce beef with less marbling, or intramuscular fat, as well as less fat outside of muscle. But in this case, less marbling doesn't always mean less tender. The scientists expect to pinpoint numerous genes that together control tenderness. ARS is the chief research agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. An article about the beef leanness gene appears in the June issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The article is also online at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jun99/beef0699.htm ---------- Scientific contacts: Timothy P. Smith, ARS Roman L. Hruska U.S. Meat Animal Research Center, Clay Center, Neb., phone (402) 762-4366, fax (402) 762-4390, smith@map.marc.usda.gov; Paul Gilman, Celera Genomics, Rockville, Md., phone (240) 453-3302, fax (240) 453-3650, gilmanjp@celera.com. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 12:03:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25481 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13969 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:56:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13933 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:56:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id JAA246952 (8.9.1/50); Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:56:48 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990621130950.006fba54@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:09:50 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Farm Bureau story Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1373 FYI. Full article posted on the web site listed below. >From: DWallinga@nrdc.org (David Wallinga) >Subject: Farm Bureau Critique & Attachment >____________________Forward Header_____________________ >Subject: American Farm Bureau Federation Article > > >The American Farm Bureau Federation >The Voice of American Agriculture? > >The American Farm Bureau Federation (AFBF) calls itself the "Voice of American >Agriculture." Critics call the AFBF the "Voice of American Agribusiness". With >all the predators loose in the meat packing and food production panopolies of >today - many maintain the Farm Bureau grossly misrepresents themselves as the >family farmer. > >In the words of Rodger Slickheisen, President of Defenders of Wildlife, "They >(the AFBF) are simply an insurance and agribusiness giant, that doesn't >represent the views even of its own members, and they have ridden rough shod >over farmers and rural Americans for too long. Their constant attacks on clean >air, clean water, and wildlife restoration projects serve to illustrate how far >off base they are from most American farmers." > >Defenders of Wildlife published an informative article about the Farm Bureau in >their November of 1998. Entitled Farm "Bureau vs. Nature". This article, by >journalist Vicki Monks, takes an interesting look at the Farm Bureau's unique >non-profit tax status, their elusive business and insurance structure, and some >of their policies. > >This three part article is now available at Defenders Website at: >http://www.defenders.org/fbp01.html > >Be sure and check out all three parts of this enlightening article & feel free >to forward this to a friend. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 12:04:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25503 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11865 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:52:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11767 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.2.68.82] (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05726 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:52:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: vberton@pop.wam.umd.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: vberton@wam.umd.edu (Valerie Berton) Subject: Fwd: Grower Info Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1374 >From: Brenda Roberts >Reply-To: "info@livinginharmony.org" >To: "'vberton@wam.umd.edu'" >Subject: Grower Info >Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:26:28 -0700 >Organization: The Center For Living In Harmony >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Status: O > >Hello, > >If possible, would you please post the following? Your help in getting >this information out is most appreciated, thank you. > >Sincerely, > >Brenda Roberts, Executive Director >The Center For Living In Harmony >Little Creek Acres Farm >Voice: 760-749-9634 >www.livinginharmony.org >info@livinginharmony.org > > >July 12-16 >Valley Center, CA USA >Feeding and Balancing the Soil >A 5-day intensive short course on the Albrecht System of >Sustainable Soil Fertility taught by global soils expert Neal Kinsey. >For more information on the course, book, >or audio transcript you may contact: >The Center For Living In Harmony >Little Creek Acres Farm >Voice: 760-749-9634 >www.livinginharmony.org >info@livinginharmony.org > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 12:48:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26564 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:48:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA18751 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:58:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA18706 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990622160208.19223.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:02:08 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:02:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Agricultural Warfare To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: risanet@nal.usda.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1375 hello SANETeers, this was on the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer this morning. You can find it through www.phillynews.com should you have need for a more complete reference. peace, kate p.s. I am going to be doing some market intelligence work(gathering price/product information) in several retail grocery outlets in the Philly center city area in the next week. If you have any requests for specific info, email me directly. U.S. could face new terror tactic: Agricultural warfare By Steve Goldstein INQUIRER WASHINGTON BUREAU WASHINGTON - With government money and attention focused on thwarting biological and chemical weapons targeted at humans, officials are now just barely awakening to an equally insidious and catastrophic threat: agroterror, or biowarfare targeting a nation's animals or crops. At the moment, the United States is highly vulnerable to such an attack and has no means to detect it or immediately thwart it, according to biowarfare and law enforcement experts. Bioterrorism aimed at humans would look "economically pale" against an attack on the agricultural sector, said veterinary pathologist Corrie Brown, an agroterror expert at the University of Georgia. "A terrorist wishing to cause severe and reverberating financial consequences could simply introduce a foreign disease into American livestock, which would set off a chain reaction touching virtually every citizen's pocketbook," Brown said. "We are sitting ducks for agricultural terrorism," she said. "We're incredibly vulnerable," said Drew Richardson, an FBI special assistant overseeing a hazardous-materials unit that responds to terrorist events. "I personally think we have little ability to prevent anything. We can only hope to respond." Air Force Col. Robert Kadlec, a biowarfare expert, said agroterror "offers an adversary the means to wage a potentially subtle yet devastating form of warfare, one which would impact the political, social and economic sectors of a society and potentially of national survival itself." Because U.S. livestock and poultry are the healthiest and most protected in the world, they are especially vulnerable to new diseases. Biowarfare specialists lay out a fictitious - but quite plausible - terrorist scenario in which the $54 billion-a-year U.S. dairy and beef industry is left in turmoil, international trade is crippled, and thousands of animals would have to be destroyed: A terrorist arrives on a flight to Washington with a foot-and-mouth virus taken from an infected cow in Africa. He drives south into the Virginia countryside and transfers the virus by hand to cows and horses along the roadside. By the time he reaches Richmond, a full-blown epidemic of foot-and-mouth disease among livestock is virtually assured. The full economic and political repercussions would take years to sort out. Does this sound like hype? In Belgium last week, the prime minister was forced to resign in a food scandal that has cost the Belgian economy nearly $1 billion. The cancer-causing chemical dioxin was found in fat or fuel oil that contaminated batches of chicken and animal feed shipped to 1,400 poultry producers in Belgium and parts of France and the Netherlands. When the problem was discovered, Belgian chickens and chicken byproducts, then pork and beef, were quickly banned across Europe and Asia. No investigator has voiced such a suspicion, but what if the feed was intentionally tainted? U.S. officials said the stakes are high if a similar episode were to strike here: Annual U.S. agricultural exports total $140 billion. "These things can take you off the world market - and then it's hard to get back on," said veterinary microbiologist David Huxsoll of Louisiana State University. Compared with traditional bio-attacks, agroterror presents less risk to the perpetrator. "It gets the terrorists' coercive point across but it doesn't necessarily cross the threshold of killing people, and thus doesn't create the same kind of backlash," said terrorism expert Bruce Hoffman of the Rand Corp. Microbiologist Stefan Wagener thinks a hoax is more likely than the real thing, but adds that the "ingredients and the recipes" for an agroattack are readily available "and the willingness is increasing." Wagener described scenarios in which the dairy industry could be devastated by "mad cow" disease, Asian longhorn beetles could be used to kill maple trees and cripple syrup production in New England, or soybean rust could wipe out an $8 billion-a-year industry. "The most knowledgeable intelligence people think that an event here is likely within the next 10 years," said Thomas Frazier, an agricultural security consultant. Animals today are reared intensively - some feedlots comprise 100,000 animals - and large herds make ideal targets for infection and rapid spread. Certain segments are especially vulnerable because of concentrated animal populations, such as poultry in the Delaware-Maryland-Virginia peninsula. About three-quarters of the swine industry is located in nine Midwestern states. The largest recent animal disease outbreak occurred in 1983 and 1984, when avian influenza swept through Pennsylvania and neighboring states. A six-month eradication plan cost the federal government $63 million, while poultry prices for consumers jumped overall by $350 million. Avian influenza is a zoonotic disease, meaning it is transmissible to humans and thus has greater impact. After bovine spongiform encephalopathy - or "mad cow" disease - was discovered in Great Britain in 1988, the value of British beef fell considerably. It dropped to zero when it was discovered in 1996 that there was a probable link between eating BSE-affected meat and a variant of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in humans. Last June, virulent Newcastle disease, a foreign virus that causes bloody diarrhea and death in domestic poultry, was found in game chickens in Fresno, Calif. Rapid recognition limited the spread of the disease, but it still resulted in an estimated $400 million in lost revenue. "Agricultural terrorism could be as easy as dropping Newcastle disease, virus-contaminated bird feces, into a feeding trough, or a shred of foot-and-mouth disease into the air intake at a large hog operation," Brown said. Biological warfare against humans demands a grasp of molecular biology, most experts say. But animal disease delivery is comparatively low-tech. Foot-and-mouth disease is particularly worrisome because it is highly contagious, and once in the air the virus is capable of almost uncontrollable spread. The disease causes several ulcers and blisters. Humans carry the virus and can transmit it to animals, but people rarely develop symptoms of the disease itself. A 1997 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease among pigs in Taiwan killed the export market of fresh pork to Japan. More than eight million hogs have been slaughtered to date. The infected pig has been traced to Hong Kong, according to well-placed intelligence officials, and China is suspected of agro-sabotage. In 1996, the karnal bunt fungus was found in wheat in Arizona, resulting in a massive quarantine that also affected parts of Texas, New Mexico and California. The disease reduces wheat yields. Offensive biowarfare programs targeting agriculture have been identified in the former Soviet Union, Iraq and South Africa. Ken Alibek, a top official in Soviet germ warfare who defected in 1992, has provided the U.S. government with chilling details of a Soviet agroterror program. In his new book, "Biohazard," Alibek described a program code-named "Ecology" that developed variants of diseases to attacks cows, pigs and chickens. These agents were designed to be sprayed from tanks attached to Ilyushin bombers and flown low over a target along a straight line for hundreds of miles. Even if only a few animals were successfully infected, the contagious nature of the organisms ensured that the disease would wipe out livestock over a wide area in several months. Alibek's disclosures provided a wake-up call to government officials who had ignored agriculture in developing counterterrorism plans. Floyd Horn, a top USDA official spearheading this effort, also noted ruefully that there is no deterrent in the form of punishment for agroterror, as compared with nuclear or chemical-biological attacks that kill or injure people. The Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, the regulatory arm of the USDA, maintains a cadre of field veterinarians to monitor animal disease, but Brown and others lament budget cutbacks that reduced their numbers and said there are not nearly enough experts trained in exotic foreign diseases. "There was a national effort [on terrorism] but the USDA and agriculture got left out," said LSU's Huxsoll. "Now it's catch-up." _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 12:59:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA26801 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA28843 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:14:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA28837 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn19tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.148]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA25318 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:14:52 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:14:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906221614.LAA25318@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: Land Trust Seminar on Direct Marketing of Ag Products Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1376 Jefferson County Land Trust, Inc. P.O. Box 194 Jefferson, Wisconsin 53549 Contact: Greg David (920) 261-4292 Direct Marketing of Agricultural Products Meeting Slated An outdoor field day has been planned by the Jefferson County Land Trust to explore niche and direct marketing of agricultural products. The meeting will be held on Wednesday June 23 from 1:30 p.m. to 4 p.m. at Prairie Dock Farm, W5412 River Dale Drive, Watertown. River Dale Drive is just south of Watertown off County Road A. Dave Engel, Program Director of the Organic Crop Improvement Association (OCIA), Chapter 1 will be first on the agenda. Mr. Engel will discuss the organic certification process and give an update on the federal rules for organic products and the second draft of the American Organic Standards. Engel's presentation should be of interest to organic farmers who direct market their products and also to conventional farmers who might be interested in marketing grain crops in the lucrative organic market. Sharon International grain elevator estimates that they will be paying double the regular market price for certified organic soybeans. Karen Kerr of Bull Thistle Farm will speak about heritage animals and the direct marketing of beef. She will have several animals on display and will discuss the valuable qualities of these once predominant breeds and how they are useful today. Greg David will give a tour of Prairie Dock Farm. Greg is the proprietor of a Community Supported Agriculture Farm (CSA). CSA farms provide produce seasonally or year round to a group of subscribers, some of whom participate in working the farm. Prairie Dock Farm produces organic vegetables, chicken, pork, herbs, flowers and prairie plants. Please join us for an afternoon in the country. For more information contact Greg David at 920-261-4292. The Jefferson County Land Trust is a non-profit, non-governmental conservation organization which provides voluntary land protection options for land owners. The monthly educational sessions are funded by grants from the Herbert H. Kohl Charities and the Natural Resources Foundation. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 14:10:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28222 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA11854 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:28:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11773 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool072-cvx.ds60-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.173.72]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id N2AYSQNP; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:27:30 -0400 Message-ID: <37711C0F.5D28AF34@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:40:31 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: biomass fuels References: <199906221458.KAA14457@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1377 One thing for everyone to consider is that fossil/geological based fuels have a net carbon emission, from the moment that we begin searching for them. On the other hand, Biofuels, if properly grown and produced (ie organicly in rotation with animals and other crops - ie the Rodale experiment) are carbon "sinks" (reducers) during their production, and may well be carbon sinks over their entire lifetime (alchohol fuels), as they produce very little carbon when burned. Also, the general petroleum calories required vs calories gained refers almost always to Human potential Calories, not oxidation calories- Furthermore, the calories required figure is based upon fertilizer and pesticide intensive production, so those figures are much higher than necessary. just my 2 cents- Phil Gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 14:49:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28918 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA02960 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:04:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02904 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:04:07 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 7TRVa20058 (4222) for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a3c0927.24a12960@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:01:04 EDT Subject: Jobs in organic research To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1378 The USDA/ARS in Salinas Calif. is begining a dedicated program to Organic Research. The following position is part of that effort. We are looking for someone with a background in plant pathology and/or microbial ecology to work on this research team. The vacancy announcement for this position can be found at (http://www.ars.usda.gov/afm/hrd/vacancy/x9w-9343.htm). In addition a position for an organic farm manager is available and the vacancy announcement can be found at (http://www.ars.usda.gov/afm/hrd/vacancy/x9w-9333.htm) The USDA-ARS in Salinas CA is seeking an Agricultural Science Research Technician (Plants) to help conduct reserch on organic production of small fruits and vegetables. A background in plant pathology or microbiology is essential. Highly motivated individuals with the ability to work in an independent fashion are encouraged to apply. U.S. citizenship is required. For more information, please contact Dr. Carolee T. Bull, USDA-ARS, 1636 E. Alisal St., Salinas, CA 93905. Phone (831)755-2889. For general information and application forms, contact Ms. Elsa Chavez at (831)755-2800. Applications must be postmarked by June 19, 1999. USDA-ARS is an equal opportunity provider and employer. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 17:34:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA02945 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA14533 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:51:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14508 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA03446; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA19756; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:52:16 -0700 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:53:34 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, IPMnetNUZ@ava.bcc.orst.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: Calif. awards funds for pesticide reduced use/risk Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1379 Below is a press release from the California Department of Pesticide Regulation. The full release, including a full list of grants awarded and contact names, can be found at http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/pressrls/redpestrisk.htm For further information on the Alliance Program, contact David Supkoff at or (916) 324-4100. Media Contact: Veda Federighi, Glenn Brank (916) 445-3974 Kathy Brunetti, Agriculture Program Supervisor California Department of Pesticide Regulation ************ June 22, 1999 (99-15) DPR Awards More Than $700,000 to Reduce Pesticide Risks and Use SACRAMENTO -- Cal/EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation today announced $737,000 in Pest Management Alliance grants to fund 10 large-scale projects aimed at reducing the use of high-risk pesticides in the growing of cotton, tree fruit, almonds, rice, walnuts, sugar beets, seeds, and cut flowers. This is the second year of the Alliance program, which is designed to encourage industry-wide adoption of pest management techniques that reduce pesticide risks to workers, consumers, and the environment. In these public-private alliances, the grant recipients provide matching funds equal to the DPR grant. Last year, the Alliance awarded eight major grants that ranged up to $100,000 each. Among the 10 recipients of this year's grants are four projects from last year that will receive another year of funding to continue their innovative work. "I am especially pleased at the quality of the projects that received second-year funding," said DPR Director Paul E. Helliker. "Their projects demonstrate reduced-risk pest control practices that are economical--and that work. "For example, almond and prune growers are getting together to learn about innovative pest management methods, walnut growers are evaluating and demonstrating regional reduced-risk practices, and pear growers are applying innovative methods learned in one area to crops in other parts of the state. Typically, Alliance groups focus on communicating information through demonstrations, field days, and publications about reduced-risk practices." Helliker said that the new Alliance participants would show the same commitment to implementing alternative methods to the use of conventional pesticides. "They have a great incentive to succeed," Helliker said. "Farmers are being pressured to find alternatives to conventional pesticides, and are willing to put up their own money to help do it. Beyond our grants, we help the Alliance participants by giving them technical advice on what has worked-and what hasn't-with other crops." Four groups received Alliance funding for the second year: * The Walnut Marketing Board, based in Sacramento, to continue development of a project designed to encourage adoption of reduced-risk pest management strategies in walnuts statewide. ($65,750) *The Almond Board of California, based in Modesto, to promote a reduced-risk system of almond production through use of alternative products and practices, on-site demonstrations, and grower education. ($98,976 ) * The California Prune Board, based in Pleasanton, to expand and strengthen existing reduced-risk pest management strategies and improve communication and cooperation among different segments of the industry. ($92,727) *The California Pear Advisory Board, based in Sacramento, to establish a pheromone-based insect management project with new growers in Lake, Mendocino, El Dorado, and Sacramento counties. ($100,000) Six groups are first-time Alliance participants: *The California Cotton Ginners and Growers Associations, based in Fresno, to encourage adoption of integrated pest management (IPM) strategies by improving outreach and field evaluation in Pima and Upland cotton. ($100,000 ) * The California Beet Growers Association, based in Stockton, to improve integrated management of insect pests in sugar beets. ($88,841) *The California Cut Flower Commission, based in Watsonville, to demonstrate and implement a reduced-risk pest management strategy in fresh cut roses. ($85,000) *The California Seed Association, based in Sacramento, to develop an alfalfa seed pest management implementation training program for the central San Joaquin Valley. ($55,000) *The California Tree Fruit Agreement, Reedley, for a project to evaluate and implement sustainable pest management practices for key insect pests in clingstone canning and fresh market peaches, plums and nectarines. ($31,325) *The California Rice Research Board, Yuba City, to develop a reduced-risk program for control of rice water weevil and to demonstrate program efficacy to rice growers. ($20,000) DPR distributes grants under two major programs: the two-year-old Alliance program, which focuses on statewide projects, and the Innovations in Pest Management program. The latter, established in 1996, focuses on local and regional projects. DPR has awarded $4.3 million in grants in the two programs. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 22 19:57:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA05602 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA18942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:21:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA18879 for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:21:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Bagelhole1@aol.com Received: from Bagelhole1@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 7IRa024186 (8073) for ; Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1046c457.24a17447@aol.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:20:39 EDT Subject: Dere's a waterfall at da end of dat river da Nile. To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA18884 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1380 In a message dated 6/20/99 4:34:58 PM, ThomasH613@aol.com writes: << Those that live in cities, densely populated areas, where supplies run out, even for a short period of time. Panic will set in >> We are all floating down a river called da Nile, at the end is a waterfall that no one can hear or see, we will all learn how big or small it is when we ride it together 1/1/2000. Hopefully, it will be small, but the possibility that it will be large is not remote enough to ignore. "To not prepare fully (inventorying/stockpiling and self-sustainable neighborhoods) is folly." We need to create models, be the models for our neighborhoods, communities, and nation: 1.Low cost greenhouses with the leading edge techniques for growing organics, like "aeroponics" using vertical structures, nutrient fed looped tubing. Schools would be a great place to create "community food security" and food for the brain and body for our children. The time is ripe for growing greenhouses. 2. Edible landscapes (your front yard) 3. Window sill gardening: lettuce, herbs, sprouts, and wheat grass 4. Vertical gardening: 1. Make a column out of chickenwire and tarpaper or cardboard about 3 1/2 feet high, 14 inches diameter. Hold a 4 inch diameter pipe in center and fill with sand and stones (for watering), fill the rest of the area with good soil, remove the pipe. Cut 3 inch slits around the outside thru the wire and paper in a spiral pattern. Insert seedlings in slits (40-60). Can be used on sidewalks, balconies, roofs. Sizes are arbitrary. 4 or 5 should feed a family plenty of vegetables, plant about 2 weeks apart to keep a steady harvest. `5. Fish farming in a barrel Local govts. should be asked to bring grains from the silos across America where they often rot every year and store them in accessible places for neighborhoods in your city. http://bagelhole.hypermart.net/ (looking for website help) focus: low-tech sustainable ideas/methods ____________________________ This is a humanitarian, non-commercial project that is dependent on global collaboration to succeed (self-sustainable neighborhoods before 2000). This could be a way to divert panic as we approach the new year, by having this ready and available for those who suddenly see, the safety and beauty of being self-sustainable. If you would like to help in the best way you can, please do and respond to this e-mail. Thanks for taking the time to read this. One Family, Tom Osher (bagelhole1) San Francisco Tax id 94-3111898 415-824-4214 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 02:54:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA10758 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA07061 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:11:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA06957 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:11:42 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 7YSWa10070 (8052) for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3f92693b.24a1d474@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:11:00 EDT Subject: organic research jobs To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1381 The deadline for application for the positions in organic research were wrong in the previous announcement. The applications must be post marked by July 19, 1999 and July 26, 1999 for the farm management and microbiology position previously posted The position announcements can be found at: (http://www.ars.usda.gov/afm/hrd/vacancy/x9w-9343.htm) (plant pathology/microbiology) (http://www.ars.usda.gov/afm/hrd/vacancy/x9w-9333.htm) organic farm management. Thanks to those who recognized the error. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 09:24:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13794 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA08842 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:20:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA08794 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id mTVEa04821 (300); Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:18:59 EDT Subject: Re: FW: Genetic Testing for Beef Leanness To: lonrom@hevanet.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, AGRISYNERGY@maelstrom.stjohns.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1382 Sounds as if wannabe lean humans might benefit from this genetic knowledge! Ann Gras To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 09:48:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA14204 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:48:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA27504 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:50:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA27485 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:54:22 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'NationalCampaignForSustainableAgriculture'" Subject: National Campaign Job Opening Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:54:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1383 Forwarded... Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:00:02 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: National Campaign For Sustainable Agriculture Subject: NAtional Campaign Job Opening NATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE P.O. Box 396, Pine Bush, NY 12566, (914) 744-8448, Fax: (914) 744-8477, email: Campaign@magiccarpet.com JOB ANNOUNCEMENT: ORGANIZER -- IMMEDIATE OPENING The National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture is a diverse network of over 2000 organizations working collaboratively to shape national policies to foster a sustainable food and agriculture system -- one that is economically viable, environmentally sound, socially just, and humane. We are seeking to hire a full-time Organizer to work on a variety of policy advocacy activities. Responsibilities: -Staff Issue Committees working on issues in the following areas: Family Farm Income, Rural Development/ Marketing, Minority Farmers and Farmworkers, Research, Conservation, and Community Food Security. -Coordinate with leaders who monitor relevant national policy developments -Initiate grassroots action as needed -Facilitate collaboration with organizations on relevant Farm Bill (2002) activities -Produce action alerts, media advisories, fact sheets, etc... in collaboration with other groups and assist with other organizational communications -Organize Issue-related meetings and assist with other meetings -Do outreach to varied constituencies and initiate participation in Campaign activities Qualifications: -Experience organizing collaborative efforts of diverse groups on policy advocacy -Proven organizational and project management skills -Strong written and verbal skills, experience writing media advisories -Ability to coordinate a variety of activities -Ability to recruit, motivate, and coordinate people of different backgrounds and interest communities -Strong diplomatic skills -Proficiency with word processing and email communications -Ability to travel and work on weekends as needed for travel -Knowledge and experience with agriculture and/or environmental policies a plus -Knowledge and experience with fundraising a plus -Commitment to promoting sustainable and socially just farm and food policies -Ability to work independently and as a team member -Minimum commitment through 2002 Farm Bill Location: Preferable location at our main office in Pine Bush, N.Y. Pine Bush is a rural community located 75 miles outside of the metropolitan NY area. Salary and Benefits: $28,000-$35,000 depending on experience, plus benefits package, full time with flexible scheduling available. To Apply: Send cover letter, resume, SHORT writing samples, and references to Amy Little, Executive Director, National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture, PO Box 396, Pine Bush, NY 12566 People of color are encouraged to apply. The National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture is an equal Opportunity Employer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Amy Little, Executive Director National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture P.O. Box 396 Pine Bush, NY 12566 914-744-8448; Fax: 914-744-8477 campaign@magiccarpet.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 09:49:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA14212 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA25869 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:46:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA25856 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990623124907.14444.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 05:49:07 PDT Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 05:49:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: CA Organic, NYTimes article To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1384 SANETeers, this is a FYI from the NYTimes on the web. Kate June 22, 1999 Can Customers Trust Organic Label? Filed at 8:12 p.m. EDT By The Associated Press SANTA CRUZ, Calif. (AP) -- Consumers will pay more for food they believe to be free of pesticides and grown in an a way that protects the environment. But can they trust it? The growth of organic food from a fringe movement to a $5 billion nationwide industry is based mostly on trust. When a label says ``grown and processed in accordance with the California Organic Foods Act of 1990,'' it does not necessarily mean the food is truly organic, according to the organic foods industry, farmers, inspectors and others. Unless the food also has been independently certified, they say, it's likely no one has checked to ensure the food meets minimum state standards. ``The savvy customer knows that if it isn't certified, it isn't organic,'' said Route 1 Farms owner Jonathan Steinberg, who grows $1 million of mixed vegetables a year on 120 rented acres in Santa Cruz County and has been certified since 1982. To sell something as organic, growers have to register with the state and pay an annual fee -- from $25 for under $10,000 in sales to $2,000 for $5 million or more. Sellers of processed foods pay just $100 for an entire line of products. They also have to keep extensive paperwork showing the food is free from pesticides and synthetic chemicals. But until recently, the California Department of Food and Agriculture hasn't done much more than look into complaints, which have been rare. And the Department of Health Services, which inspects processed food, has yet to set up an organic compliance program. ``When you register with the state there are basically no on-site inspections. They come out and say 'yup, you're organic,' end of story,'' said vegetable grower Dick Peixoto of Watsonville. ``Most customers want that assurance that you're actually being monitored.'' A federal organic law -- more than a decade in the planning -- will require certification as early as this fall. Meanwhile, most major supermarkets have acted on their own. About 85 percent of the fruits and vegetables sold by California's 2500 registered organic growers, packers and shippers is now certified. But most national retailers -- including such natural food chains as Whole Foods Market -- still don't require certification for processed food. With the industry growing by 20 percent a year, the state agriculture department's budget has grown to $350,000 -- enough for 500 inspections this year, and for the first time, random, unannounced soil and tissue samplings, program director Ray Green said. For now, the industry remains small enough for organic violators to be easily discovered, and by all accounts, fraud rarely occurs. When it does, Green avoids fines or criminal charges, unless the fraud seems intentional. One such incident involved San Diego-based Petrou Foods Inc., which was caught selling olive oil as organic when some of the olives were actually harvested from a golf course. That investigation resulted in a felony conviction and $10,000 in fines. ``If someone's doing something that's not right, the whole industry learns about it. And believe me, that can be more detrimental than anything else,'' said Margaret Wittenberg, an executive at Whole Foods. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 10:12:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14859 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15148 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:16:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15069 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07177 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990623092324.007c7690@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:23:24 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Mundane first world question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1385 Some friends are relocating to Silver Spring, MD. Anyone know of any good sustainable farms/farmstands/nurseries in the area we can turn them on to? Thanks, Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 11:21:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA16296 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA28156 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:27:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28147 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:27:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.142.59.202] (208-25-61-165.stk.jps.net [208.25.61.165]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29707; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:27:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: fullcircle@mail.jps.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:30:06 -0800 To: Sanet post From: Marcie Rosenzweig Subject: Intern Wanted Cc: milstein@pipeline.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1386 Per Sarah's request. Reply info is in the body, I am not the contact on this. Marcie >From: "Sarah Milstein" >To: "csa-l" >Subject: Intern Wanted >Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:22:26 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 >Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org > >Hello, CSA-listers. > >Roxbury Farm CSA is in need of an intern. I'd like to have the >message below posted to SANET, but I don't subscribe to that list >anymore. Could somebody who's on SANET post this message there? > >Btw, replies to the ad should go to roxbury@mhonline.net, *not* to me! > >Many thanks. > >Sarah Milstein > >___________________________________________________ > >From: Jean-Paul Courtens and Sarah Shapiro > >>Intern Wanted >>Roxbury Farm >> >> There is still one apprenticeship available at Roxbury Farm. >Roxbury >>offers opportunities to be involved in all aspects of production on a >>well established, financially successful, mechanized farm, and to >work >>with and learn from a farmer with 20 years of growing experience and >a >>commitment to teaching. Several former apprentices have gone on to >>start their own farms. >> >> Roxbury Farm is a 190-acre biodynamic farm near Hudson, NY with 25 >>acres in vegetable production for a Community Supported Agriculture >>(CSA) membership of 675 shareholders located in Manhattan, Albany, >and >>Columbia County, NY. Livestock provides for a portion of the farm's >>fertility needs and supplies meat to our members. The farm has been >>operated from its inception in 1990 by Jean-Paul Courtens, who is >joined >>in 1999 by Sarah Shapiro. >> >> Interns interact with the local farm community through our >>participation in the Collaborative Regional Alliance for Farmer >Training >>(CRAFT) program, a six month program in which interns visit twelve >>organic and biodynamic farms in the region. >> >> Roxbury Farm provides on-farm housing with a full kitchen and >washing >>machine, all farm food crops, a food purchasing budget, a $300/month >>stipend, and Workers Compensation, for three interns during the >growing >>season. >> >> People with a strong interest and worth ethic should contact: >Jean-Paul >>Courtens or Sarah Shapiro at 518-851-2056, 518-851-3809, or write to >us >>at roxbury@mhonline.net or 81 Roxbury Road, Hudson, NY 12534 ASAP! > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 11:37:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA16611 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01764 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:36:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01734 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:36:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.18] (st-ppp26.hevanet.com [198.5.254.18]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA17166; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906231436.HAA17166@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:37:15 -0700 Subject: FW: "Spurgefest" Offers Flea Beetles a Feast From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1387 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: "Spurgefest" Offers Flea Beetles a Feast Date: Wed, Jun 23, 1999, 7:05 AM NEWS RELEASE: "Spurgefest" Will Offer Flea Beetles a Feast ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Kathryn Barry Stelljes, (510) 559-6069, stelljes@asrr.arsusda.gov June 23, 1999 ----------- MEDORA, N.D., June 23--Millions will gather here for lunch at the end of June--millions of beetles, that is. The featured menu item, courtesy of scientists with USDA's Agricultural Research Service, is an exotic noxious weed called leafy spurge. The weed causes millions of dollars in production losses each year. Researchers plan to give away up to 10 million flea beetles (Aphthona species) to ranchers and land managers at Spurgefest '99. Held June 29 to July 1 in Medora, N.D., Spurgefest will be the first field day for The Ecological Areawide Management of Leafy Spurge, or TEAM Leafy Spurge. Biological control using the one-eighth-inch beetles represents the cornerstone of an integrated approach to curbing the spread of leafy spurge. The weed, known to scientists as Euphorbia esula, covers at least 5 million acres in 29 states and increases about 10 percent annually. The Agricultural Research Service established TEAM Leafy Spurge in 1997 as its first Areawide Integrated Pest Management program to address rangeland weeds. The program is managed in cooperation with the USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, and includes numerous state and federal agencies as well as four land-grant universities. Spurgefest begins June 29 with a scientific meeting to present research progress against the weed. On June 30, field tours will demonstrate biological control, grazing, herbicides and other control tactics. On July 1, speakers from the Departments of Agriculture and Interior will discuss broad issues regarding invasive weeds, including a recently signed executive order on invasive species. July 1 is also the date of the Aphthona beetle give-away. Production losses and control costs attributed to leafy spurge amount to more than $144 million annually in just four of the 29 spurge-infested states: Montana, North and South Dakota and Wyoming. "Herbicides have long been the foundation of weed control," said ARS ecologist Gerry L. Anderson. "But we know now that using various combinations of control tools, such as grazing, biological control and herbicides, provides better control than any single tool. We're showing land managers how to integrate the available tools to get the best control for the lowest cost." Anderson is ARS' principal investigator on the project. He works at the agency's Northern Plains Agricultural Research Laboratory in Sidney, Mont. Leafy spurge is native to Europe and Asia. ARS researchers returned to the weed's homeland in the 1960s to search for natural enemies that might help prevent it from running rampant. Several species of flea beetles were among the most useful insects they found. After years of safety testing, ARS began importing and releasing the beetles in the 1980s. Since then, the insects have become established and are eating leafy spurge at thousands of locations in more than 19 states and Canadian provinces. The millions to be distributed this summer will be collected from sites where the beetles have reproduced on leafy spurge. "The use of biologically based, integrated management strategies is the best option for ranchers and land managers to effectively and affordably control leafy spurge," said Anderson. "This approach will help keep rangelands productive and preserve native plants and biodiversity." Leafy spurge infests about 4,200 acres of the 70,448-acre Theodore Roosevelt National Park in the North Dakota Badlands. But since 1987, the National Park Service has released more than 4 million flea beetles as part of a program to rein in the weed. The park will host the Medora event. The growing environmental and economic threat of invasive species like leafy spurge has spawned the creation of an Invasive Species Council. Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman will co-chair the Council with his counterparts at Interior and Commerce. The Council will coordinate the federal strategy to combat invasive species and identify ways to prevent their introduction and spread in the U.S. Meanwhile, the President's budget proposal for fiscal year 2000 includes an increase of more than $28.8 million for the war on invasive species. ---------- Scientific contact: Gerry L. Anderson or Chad Prosser, ARS Northern Plains Agricultural Research Laboratory, 1500 N. Central Ave., Sidney, MT 59270, phone (406) 482-2020, fax (409) 482-5038, gerry@mail.sidney.ars.usda.gov or chad@mail.sidney.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 12:06:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17400 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22063 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:11:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp5.mindspring.com (smtp5.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21960 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mindspring.com (pool-209-138-128-12.atln.grid.net [209.138.128.12]) by smtp5.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAB27431; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37704384.81E062A6@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:16:36 -0400 From: Keith Johnson Organization: The Permaculture Activist/Culture's Edge/Patterns for Abundance: http://metalab.unc.edu/pc-activist X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nrboone@roadrunner.com, "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Subject: Integrating chickens into greenhouses Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E09130411216EB79D26FA7C6" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1388 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E09130411216EB79D26FA7C6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nathan, Jerome Osentowski of the Central Rocky Mountain Permaculture Institute has integrated chickens into his greenhouse. You can get further details from him at permacul@rof.net You might also wish to try contacting the Permaculture Drylands Institute at PDrylands@aol.com Keith Johnson The Permaculture Activist Magazine Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:38:57 -0600 (MDT) From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Integrating chickens into greenhouses Dear sanet, Does anyone have information or contacts for people who have successfully integrated chickens into greenhouses? Thanks, Nathan Boone --------------E09130411216EB79D26FA7C6 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Keith Johnson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Keith Johnson n: ;Keith Johnson org: The Permaculture Activist / Culture's Edge / Patterns for Abundance email;internet: keithdj@mindspring.com title: designer / consultant x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------E09130411216EB79D26FA7C6-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 13:42:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA19909 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21444 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:46:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21404 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27663 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA17640; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm9-11.nidlink.com [216.18.141.66]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA20684; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906231646.JAA20684@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:53:57 -0700 To: , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: EPA-USDA Bt-Corn IRM Meeting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1389 I have prepared a meeting report on the June 18, 1999 EPA-USDA Bt-corn resistance management workshop. It is posted on Ag BioTech InfoNet (www.biotech-info.net), along with various other items on the meeting. Go to We plan to add statements by some of the other participants, as soon as they make them available. We have posted this material now because EPA announced at the end of the meeting that the proceedings will not be available until August. The issues addressed in Chicago are very time sensitive, for the reasons noted below; hence our decision to make this information as widely accessible as possible. Feel free to pass it along, repost it, or otherwise disseminate it, giving credit to Ag BioTech InfoNet as the source. The existing conditional registrations for all Bt-corn events lapse in April 2001. EPA must act to approve an extension of them, or there will be no Bt corn planted in crop year 2001 in the U.S. Indeed, because of the need to produce the seed corn for 2001 in 2000, EPA must act this fall or early winter in order to give the seed industry time to react, especially if EPA decides to not allow any further planting of certain or all Bt-corn events. So without doubt, this is THE major decision on ag biotechnology the U.S. government will make in the next 3 to 6 months. The Chicago meeting effectively framed Bt-IRM issues and the choices facing EPA. EPA-USDA deserve credit for designing an open, balanced meeting and working to assure all interested parties were represented. The farmer participation and input was excellent, as noted in the meeting report. If the goal is preserving the efficacy of Bt, the science clearly does not support continued use of all the existing Bt-corn events (e.g., the low- and moderate dose events do not meet the "high dose" criterion, and hence there is no resistance management plan for these). The decision whether, and on what conditions to extend the use of Bt-corn will be the most important test to date of EPA resolve to manage proven risks (resistance and Monarchs, at a minimum) from agricultural applications of biotechnology. Resistance is by far the more significant and consequential risk. If EPA does not act to assure the continued efficacy of Bt, it will set a precedent that, in the context of transgenic plants, resistance will only be managed as fully as possible, subject to the marketing plans and intentions of the companies bringing the technologies onto the market. This will be a key policy decision with international implications. It will mean that EPA deals with concerns about resistance to natural biopesticides like Bt in the same way it now deals with ecological risks from pesticides -- it grants registrations with restrictions designed to mitigate ecological impacts to the extent possible, but almost never turns down a registration to prevent ecological impacts. One can imagine a scenario where other countries, or the EU, might insist upon resistance management plans that prevent resistance, not manage it for 5 or 10 or 20 years. In the absence of a proven resistance management plan that preserves efficacy, India, for example, might object to plants genetically engineered to express neem -- a key natural biopesticide used for centuries in that country. The EPA-USDA are holding a Bt-cotton resistance management meeting on August 26, 1999 in Memphis. Many of the same issues and concerns will no doubt arise again there. chuck benbrook Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 15:20:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA23283 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA15831 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:18:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15823 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:21:58 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'maiaharbol@aol.com'" Subject: FW: please publicize: Job description: Program Coordinator Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:21:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA15827 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1390 -----Original Message----- From: Maiaharbol@aol.com [mailto:Maiaharbol@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 11:32 AM Subject: please publicize: Job description: Program Coordinator Please include this notice in your newsletter, list-servs or in any other mailings you feel are appropriate. If you have any questions, I can be contacted at (518) 234-2105. While the closing date for the following job posting is August 15, we will continue to accept applications until we have found enough qualified applicants. Many thanks for your time and help! Best wishes, Shannon Hayes Regional Farm and Food Project Bring Your Passion to Work Excellent Full-Time Job for the Right Person Program Coordinator for Sustainable Agriculture Organization Responsibilities: Organize and implement educational programs (workshops, farm tours, conferences); coordinate several annual special events and fundraisers. Conduct outreach activities; build relationships with inidviduals and groups; recruit and work with volunteers. Some administrative responsibilities. Qualifications: Self-starter who works well in a team and enjoys people. Demonstrated ability and experience as coordinator, educator, or organizer. Ability to juggle multiple projects and meet deadlines. Detail and results-orientation. Persistence. Also: Love for the land and commitment to sustainable agriculture. Some knowledge of farming and related issues and interest in learning more. Excellent verbal and written communication skills. Computer literacy (graphic design aptitude and internet literacy a plus). Familiarity with office procedures. Ability to lead groups and run meetings. Enthusiastic attitude and openness to new ideas. Willingness to raise money. Comfort with uncharted territory, doing new things. Must have vehicle (mileage paid). Willingness to work occasional evenings/weekends. Compensation starts at $22,000 to $25,000 plus benefits. The successful applicant will be part of the two-person staff. About the Regional Farm & Food Project The Regional Farm & Food Project is a 10-county not-for-profit membership organization founded in 1996. The Project promotes and develops new opportunities for family-scale agriculture and facilitates connections between farmers, consumers and communities. Our workshops and other educational programs reach a diverse array of farmers and local citizens interested in new ideas and ways of thinking. Our community development projects work with a variety of stakeholders and volunteers to initiate new possibilities that further our vision. We also hold special celebrations of local food and farming and publish a quarterly newsletter. We favor a consensus process through which everyone has a chance to be heard. We serve the region that includes urban, suburban, and rural areas, bordering Massachusetts and Vermont on the east, the Adirondack mountains to the north, and the Catskill mountains to the southwest. The Project has a diversified funding base from grants, memberships, special events, and workshop fees. To apply, please send resume, 3 references, writing sample, other materials that support your application, and letter of interest to Job Search, Regional Farm & Food Project, 27 Elm St., Albany, NY 12202. Deadline is Aug. 15, 1999, or until suitable candidates are identified. Earlier applications appreciated. Upon request, we will send applicants our newsletter. For questions, call Shannon Hayes at (518) 234-2105, or email at maiaharbol@aol.com. After August 8th, contact Tracy Frisch at (518) 426-9331. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 16:27:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA25448 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA29332 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:34:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA29276 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA18542 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990623154039.007d9810@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:40:39 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re:flea beetles In-Reply-To: <199906231820.OAA16565@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1391 Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the same beetles that chomp up my organic garden?? Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 17:08:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26568 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03473 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:32:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03468 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA08384; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01bebdb6$f2396da0$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: , "Mark" Subject: Re: Re:flea beetles Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:28:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1392 Mark: There are hundreds of different species of flea beetles and most of them are very specialized in their selection of plants on which to feed. For example, in your organic garden, you probably have the crucifer flea beetle, Phyllotreta cruciferae, which specializes on plants in the cabbage family. If you grow eggplant, you probably have the eggplant flea beetle, Epitrix fuscula, a specialist on eggplant and a few other species of solanaceous plants. You may also have the potato flea beetle, Epitrix cucumeris, also a specialist on Solanaceae. Thus, you shouldn't assume that the flea beetles on leafy spurge would be likely to feed on anything in your garden. You probably are not growing close relatives of this spurge in your garden. There is, however, a lively debate about the biological control of weeds, and whether the natural enemies of weeds have been adequately tested for their effects on all the closely related native plant species, including in some cases, endangered species of plants. I am surprised that they could do the distribution in the way described, because there is usually considerable paperwork involved in moving insects across state lines. Perhaps this species has reached the point where it has cleared the bureaucratic hurdles. -----Original Message----- From: Mark To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 3:57 PM Subject: Re:flea beetles >Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the same beetles that chomp up my >organic garden?? > >Mark >---------------------------------------------------- >Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) >An independent non-profit organization > >c/o Hampshire College >893 West Street >Amherst MA 01002-5001 >T: 413-559-5338 >F: 413-559-5404 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 17:13:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26741 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA21046 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:10:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21001 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.15]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990623201013.OIO8212@worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:10:13 +0000 Message-ID: <37713F04.753B7772@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:09:40 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kate Smith , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: CA Organic, NYTimes article References: <19990623124907.14444.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1393 I cannot trust the food that the U.S. government and the Crop Protection Association claims is safe. I would sooner trust the organic label from firms with whom I've done business in health food stores, than trust a government that protects big, often multinational enterprises to do their bidding and compromise our food. In addition, I can often taste or at least feel the different. With toxic (synthetic pesticide) food, the roof of my mouth swells; not so with organically produced foods. I feel better buying food from smaller businesses that grow out of love for the land, rather than love of spreading genetically engineered organisms over the entire planet so they can sell more herbicidem which they manufacture. Bunny Snow consumer of organic agriculture ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kate Smith wrote: > SANETeers, this is a FYI from the NYTimes on the web. Kate > > June 22, 1999 > > Can Customers Trust Organic Label? > > Filed at 8:12 p.m. EDT > > By The Associated Press > SANTA CRUZ, Calif. (AP) -- Consumers will pay more for food > they believe to be free of pesticides and grown in an a way > that protects the environment. > > But can they trust it? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 19:40:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA29983 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:40:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23837 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:38:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from server1.netpath.net (root@server1.netpath.net [206.27.45.34]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23651 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.27.39.151] (Pcorncrib.netpath.net [206.27.39.151]) by server1.netpath.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA32036 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:38:41 -0400 X-Sender: corncrib@netpath.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:47:21 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Gerry Cohn Subject: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1394 I'm trying to build a permanent fence to keep goats in and various predators out. I'm looking to use woven wire, with a hot strand or two on top. All the fencebuiders in my area are insistent on using treated posts, at least for the corners. Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for this type of fencing? Thanks. Gerry Cohn/Jessica LaMontagne 1105 W. Greensboro-Chapel Hill Road Snow Camp, NC 27349 336-376-8765 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 20:04:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA00385 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA20766 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:28:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA20653 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.251.193]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990623232752.EEMV8212@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:27:52 +0000 Message-ID: <37716D59.DB937C5@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:27:21 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: organic subject to irradiation, also? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1395 Does anyone know if the FDA plans to require irradiation of organic production, as well as conventional? ~Bunny Snow -------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/98fr/021799a.txt Federal Register SUMMARY: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is considering proposing revisions of its labeling requirements for foods treated with ionizing radiation. FDA is publishing this advance notice of proposed rulemaking (ANPRM) in response to the direction given in the Joint Explanatory Statement of the Committee of Conference that accompanied the Food and Drug Administration Modernization Act of 1997 (FDAMA). The FDAMA Joint Statement directed FDA to publish for public comment proposed changes to current regulations relating to the labeling of foods treated with ionizing radiation. As a first step, the agency is making available to the public, through this document, various documents including the relevant text from the FDAMA Joint Statement; prior FDA rulings regarding food irradiation; recent submissions to FDA regarding the labeling of irradiated foods, including a citizen petition; a report of a meeting attended by FDA representatives at which labeling of irradiated foods was discussed; and other relevant materials. The agency encourages interested persons to submit comments, including pertinent data and information, to aid FDA's consideration of revisions to the labeling requirements for irradiated foods. DATES: Written comments must be submitted by May 18, 1999. Date has been changed to July 18, 1999. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 22:46:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA02616 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA28844 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:59:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA28827 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA18813; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:57:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-230.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.230) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018481; Wed Jun 23 20:55:42 1999 Message-ID: <017d01bebde4$3114ea40$e6f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Kimberly Stoner" , , "Mark" Subject: Re: Re:flea beetles Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:52:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1396 Ok, I need an organic control of the eggplant flea beetle, one I believe that eats arrugula and tatsoi. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Kimberly Stoner To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu ; Mark Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 4:47 PM Subject: Re: Re:flea beetles >Mark: > >There are hundreds of different species of flea beetles and most of them are >very specialized in their selection of plants on which to feed. For >example, in your organic garden, you probably have the crucifer flea beetle, >Phyllotreta cruciferae, which specializes on plants in the cabbage family. >If you grow eggplant, you probably have the eggplant flea beetle, Epitrix >fuscula, a specialist on eggplant and a few other species of solanaceous >plants. You may also have the potato flea beetle, Epitrix cucumeris, also a >specialist on Solanaceae. > >Thus, you shouldn't assume that the flea beetles on leafy spurge would be >likely to feed on anything in your garden. You probably are not growing >close relatives of this spurge in your garden. > >There is, however, a lively debate about the biological control of weeds, >and whether the natural enemies of weeds have been adequately tested for >their effects on all the closely related native plant species, including in >some cases, endangered species of plants. > >I am surprised that they could do the distribution in the way described, >because there is usually considerable paperwork involved in moving insects >across state lines. Perhaps this species has reached the point where it has >cleared the bureaucratic hurdles. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 3:57 PM >Subject: Re:flea beetles > > >>Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the same beetles that chomp up my >>organic garden?? >> >>Mark >>---------------------------------------------------- >>Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) >>An independent non-profit organization >> >>c/o Hampshire College >>893 West Street >>Amherst MA 01002-5001 >>T: 413-559-5338 >>F: 413-559-5404 >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 23 22:55:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA02759 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA03717 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:08:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA03599 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from g9tfz (1Cust168.tnt23.tco2.da.uu.net [208.255.152.168]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA26760 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:08:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Patricia Ruggiero" To: "Sustainable Agriculture" Subject: FW: Re: flea beetles Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:09:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bebde6$967f85a0$0798ffd0@g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1397 I apologize if this is a second posting. I made some mistakes in the first transmission and the message came back. Pat -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Ruggiero [mailto:ruggierop@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 9:06 PM To: Sustainable Agriculture Cc: Organic Gardening Subject: Re: flea beetles The July/August 1999 issue of *Nature Conservancy* magazine has an article entitled *Double Agents: The Peril and Potential of Biological Control.* Flea beetles used against leafy spurge are discussed, and it is stated that *The beetles have demonstrated, in the language of the trade, selectivity -- the quality that often separates biocontrol's beauties from its beasties. It is a quality that may cost its seekers two to three years of overseas odysseys and extensive feeding experiments to find the bug that eats only what it is hired to eat. It is a prerequisite for release that in the past has not always been meticulously applied." I am reading the hard copy magazine. Their website is www.tnc.org The article doesn't say what the beetles do or where they go if their preferred food is not available. Pat -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Kimberly Stoner Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 4:28 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mark Subject: Re: Re:flea beetles Mark: There are hundreds of different species of flea beetles and most of them are very specialized in their selection of plants on which to feed. For example, in your organic garden, you probably have the crucifer flea beetle, Phyllotreta cruciferae, which specializes on plants in the cabbage family. If you grow eggplant, you probably have the eggplant flea beetle, Epitrix fuscula, a specialist on eggplant and a few other species of solanaceous plants. You may also have the potato flea beetle, Epitrix cucumeris, also a specialist on Solanaceae. Thus, you shouldn't assume that the flea beetles on leafy spurge would be likely to feed on anything in your garden. You probably are not growing close relatives of this spurge in your garden. There is, however, a lively debate about the biological control of weeds, and whether the natural enemies of weeds have been adequately tested for their effects on all the closely related native plant species, including in some cases, endangered species of plants. I am surprised that they could do the distribution in the way described, because there is usually considerable paperwork involved in moving insects across state lines. Perhaps this species has reached the point where it has cleared the bureaucratic hurdles. -----Original Message----- From: Mark To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 3:57 PM Subject: Re:flea beetles >Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the same beetles that chomp up my >organic garden?? > >Mark >---------------------------------------------------- >Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) >An independent non-profit organization > >c/o Hampshire College >893 West Street >Amherst MA 01002-5001 >T: 413-559-5338 >F: 413-559-5404 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 07:48:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA08827 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA02313 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 06:31:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA02255 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 06:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s1h3p8 (cust172.tnt1.dial.tor2.uunet.ca [209.47.186.172]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA16269 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 06:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990624063754.007ca800@mail.netrover.com> X-Sender: jgold@mail.netrover.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 06:37:54 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Jeff Gold Subject: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1398 In West Virginia they swore by Black Locust posts, untreated, that seem to last for decades. Jeff Gold > >I'm trying to build a permanent fence to keep goats in and various >predators out. I'm looking to use woven wire, with a hot strand or two on >top. All the fencebuiders in my area are insistent on using treated posts, >at least for the corners. > >Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for >this type of fencing? > >Thanks. > >Gerry Cohn/Jessica LaMontagne >1105 W. Greensboro-Chapel Hill Road >Snow Camp, NC 27349 >336-376-8765 > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 09:47:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10536 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA03997 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:56:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03963 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:00:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Kim Kroll'" , Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: SARE database of projects on the web Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:00:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1399 Colleagues, I am pleased to announce that we have posted the SARE database of funded projects on the web! The Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program has funded about 1,400 projects since its inception in 1988. Now in its twelfth year, SARE supports grants to researchers, educators and growers (see types of grants) in a program that is administered regionally with extensive input from the many stakeholders involved in agriculture in the U.S. The extent of farmer/grower participation in all phases of the grant-making process has given the SARE program the respect of producers, educators and many *administrators* throughout USDA and other agencies! Access the database from the SARE homepage (http://www.sare.org/). Click on "Funded Projects" to visit a gateway page explaining the grants program, how to search and basic information about our annual reporting process, which feeds into the database. For the repeat user of the database, we've set up a shortcut directly to the database search page. Take a look at the search tips that we've written. These should help you make the best use of the database. Let us know if you can improve on them through your own searching experiences. Comments, problems, questions about the database should be directed to Dr. Kim Kroll, SARE associate director (kkroll@asrr.arsusda.gov), and/or to Dr. Andy Clark, SAN Coordinator (san@nal.usda.gov). SAN is the outreach arm of the SARE program. Sanet-mg is a SAN-supported list created in 1991 to facilitate information exchange about sustainable agriculture. I think you will be amazed at the depth and breadth of projects funded by SARE in support of a more sustainable agriculture! Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 10:18:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11460 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA01092 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:41:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01022 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10093 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA24023; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3772365D.8764E71B@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:45:01 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerry Cohn , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1400 Black Locust trees can be used for fence posts (have been grown in rows for just that purpose in the US since pioneer days, at least that's what I've heard). Black Locust is extremely resistant to decomposition. The problem will be finding some big enough and straight enough (that's why they were grown on the fence line). Hope this helps. . .Russ Gerry Cohn wrote: > I'm trying to build a permanent fence to keep goats in and various > predators out. I'm looking to use woven wire, with a hot strand or two on > top. All the fencebuiders in my area are insistent on using treated posts, > at least for the corners. > > Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for > this type of fencing? > > Thanks. > > Gerry Cohn/Jessica LaMontagne > 1105 W. Greensboro-Chapel Hill Road > Snow Camp, NC 27349 > 336-376-8765 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 10:39:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11908 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16058 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15968 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:07:03 -0400 (EDT) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA12542 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id KAA14627; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906241407.KAA14627@travelers.mail.cornell.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: travelers.mail.cornell.edu: nobody set sender to dsc17@cornell.edu using -f To: Sustainable Ag Reply-To: dsc17@cornell.edu References: <3772365D.8764E71B@unity.ncsu.edu> In-Reply-To: <3772365D.8764E71B@unity.ncsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.0 X-Originating-IP: 132.236.126.56 Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber(caution) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1401 As to the discussion of black locust as fence posts, I too have found them quite rot-resistant. A problem I've seen (with some locusts) is that they are invasive. As a teenager, I spent 2 whole summers digging locust suckers out of a neighbors yard. Once you cut down the main tree the roots send up (thorny!)suckers all over the place. (I shouldn't complain though..it gave me steady employment for quite a while.) Just somehting to consider. I forget if the offending tree was a honey locust or black locust. Has anyone else encountered this? Hope everyone is having a good summer DC To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 11:34:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13155 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08265 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:45:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08251 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.19] (st-ppp27.hevanet.com [198.5.254.19]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10893; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906241445.HAA10893@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:41:19 -0700 Subject: FW: Chicory Is a Biological Plow and Sponge, All in One From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1402 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Chicory Is a Biological Plow and Sponge, All in One Date: Thu, Jun 24, 1999, 6:48 AM STORY LEAD: Chicory Is a Biological Plow and Sponge, All in One ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov June 24, 1999 ----------- Chicory, a hardy plant that can survive the sidewalk jungle, may be just the thing for pastoral rigors as well, according to a scientist with the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific wing. With its carrot-like taproot, chicory can plow its way down to great depths through hard, marginal soils--and even cracks in a sidewalk. In a pasture, it relentlessly recycles excess soil nitrogen into protein for livestock before the nitrogen can pollute groundwater. The deep rooting could also explain how chicory stays green and leafy in hot, dry summers--to keep feeding sheep and cattle after most pasture plants have stopped growing. Chicory's nitrogen appetite seems endless. ARS agronomist David P. Belesky found that this biological sponge can soak it up even at commercial fertilizer rates as high as 425 pounds an acre. At ARS' Appalachian Farming Systems Research Center in Beaver, W.Va., Belesky and colleagues have been testing three varieties--Grasslands Puna, Forage Feast and Lacerta--on Appalachian pastures for the past four years. Now they're checking the plant's appetite for nitrogen, phosphorus and other nutrients in composted turkey litter cleaned from turkey houses. It could become the preferred fertilizer for pastures in West Virginia, because it is inexpensive and readily available from nearby turkey farms. British United Turkeys of America, a turkey-production firm with breeding operations in southern West Virginia, is helping with the tests. Belesky and colleagues are testing the chicory in a pasture mix of orchardgrass and white clover. They want to see whether the deep-rooting chicory and orchardgrass can soak up any nitrogen and water missed by the shallow-rooting clover. A story about the research appears in the June issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine and on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jun99/turk0699.htm ---------- Scientific contact: David P. Belesky, ARS Appalachian Farming Systems Research Center, 1224 Airport Rd., Beaver, WV 25813-9423; phone (304) 256-2841, fax (304) 256-2921, dbelesky@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 12:11:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14355 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17405 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:59:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17396 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13550 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26888>; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:04:42 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: dsc17@cornell.edu cc: Sustainable Ag Message-Id: <99Jun24.100442cdt.26888@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 09:57:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber(caution) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1403 Maybe I mis-understood the thrust of the post cautioning against using Locust (Gleditsia) as posts because of the thorns? Fence posts don't usually sucker (unless you use Willow!) at least in my mud- perhaps your land is more bio-active than mine. If you were advising to use LIVE Locust trees as fence posts, then be sure to get the variety Gleditsia Triacanthos Inerma- the 3rd name literally means unarmed or thornless. dsc17@cornell.edu on 06/24/99 09:07:02 AM Please respond to dsc17@cornell.edu To: Sustainable Ag cc: Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber(caution) As to the discussion of black locust as fence posts, I too have found them quite rot-resistant. A problem I've seen (with some locusts) is that they are invasive. As a teenager, I spent 2 whole summers digging locust suckers out of a neighbors yard. Once you cut down the main tree the roots send up (thorny!)suckers all over the place. (I shouldn't complain though..it gave me steady employment for quite a while.) Just somehting to consider. I forget if the offending tree was a honey locust or black locust. Has anyone else encountered this? Hope everyone is having a good summer DC To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 12:21:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14764 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08784 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08775 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:35:51 -0400 (EDT) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14374 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA22649; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906241535.LAA22649@travelers.mail.cornell.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: travelers.mail.cornell.edu: nobody set sender to dsc17@cornell.edu using -f To: Pat Elazar , David Scott Conner , Sustainable Ag Reply-To: dsc17@cornell.edu References: <99Jun24.100442cdt.26888@mint.cwb.ca> In-Reply-To: <99Jun24.100442cdt.26888@mint.cwb.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.0 X-Originating-IP: 132.236.126.56 Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber(caution) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1404 I guess I was not clear. BUYING fence psost of locust seems like a great idea, if you can find them. My concern was with a). planting a stand of them for future fence posts and b). cutting down an existing locust to use as a post because they are invasive adn unpleasant to remove Hope this clears it up DC To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 16:09:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21205 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:09:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03369 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA03268 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:25:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from g9tfz (1Cust55.tnt23.tco2.da.uu.net [208.255.152.55]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18980 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Patricia Ruggiero" To: "Sustainable Agriculture" Subject: FW: Re: flea beetles Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:46 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bebe77$7fc7aa90$3798ffd0@g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1405 Message #2 of 3 Pat -----Original Message----- From: Tony & Moira Ryan [mailto:theryans@XTRA.CO.NZ] Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 1:55 AM To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: Re: Somebody's munching on my eggplants kathleen feingold wrote: > > Hi Gardeners, > I'm taking the liberty of translating this for non-Spanish speakers as it > is something that might be interesting or useful (it's something that I've > never heard of before, on or off this list). > > "Treat with 1/2 an onion in ten liters of water, leave it to soak for 24 > hours, filter and apply directly on the problem." Kathleen Many thanks, you translators perform a valuable service for us who are poor linguists. No, I haven't come across onion spray, though similar preparations from garlic are common enough. If it acts like garlic, I would expect it to be mainly an antifeedent, though I suppose it might also act against some diseases, especially if the onion used has a high sulphur content. (apropos of which I understand that the "hottest" onions are those produced under rather dry conditions. Moira -- Tony & Moira Ryan Wainuiomata, New Zealand (astride the "Ring of Fire" in the SW Pacific). To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 16:10:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21214 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03341 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA03252 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from g9tfz (1Cust55.tnt23.tco2.da.uu.net [208.255.152.55]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18963 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:25:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Patricia Ruggiero" To: "Sustainable Agriculture" Subject: Re: flea beetles Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bebe77$7f106880$3798ffd0@g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1406 I'm forwarding three messages from the OG list on combating flea beetles. This is #1. My husband used this concoction on our eggplant seedlings and it did seem to discourage the beetles. Pat -----Original Message----- From: kathleen feingold [mailto:eric@INTERBOOK.NET] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 5:24 PM To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: Re: Somebody's munching on my eggplants Hi Gardeners, I'm taking the liberty of translating this for non-Spanish speakers as it is something that might be interesting or useful (it's something that I've never heard of before, on or off this list). "Treat with 1/2 an onion in ten liters of water, leave it to soak for 24 hours, filter and apply directly on the problem." At 18:21 22-05-99 , Jesus Valero G wrote: >Hola Norberto: > >Trata con 1/2 de cebolla en 10 litros de agua, dejala repozar 24 horas, >filra y aplica direactamente sobre el problema. > >Saludos > > >At 12:45 PM 7/05/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Somebody is leaving round little (and some no so little) holes on my >>eggplant leaves. Not on the perimeter but in the middle. Any ideas what is >>and how to combat it (organically). >> >>TIA, Norberto >> >M.C. Jess Valero Garza >Campo Experimental Quertaro INIFAP >Pasteur sur 414, 2 piso, Col. Valle Alameda >C.P. 76040, Quertaro, Qro. >Mxico > >Tel y Fax: (42) 24-02-84 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 16:11:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21247 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03379 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA03290 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from g9tfz (1Cust55.tnt23.tco2.da.uu.net [208.255.152.55]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18997 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:25:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Patricia Ruggiero" To: "Sustainable Agriculture" Subject: FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bebe77$807c0670$3798ffd0@g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1407 Message #3 of 3 Pat -----Original Message----- From: Organic Gardening Discussion List [mailto:OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU] Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:54 PM To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: Re: Flea Beetles - Help!! I don't think the DE will help with flea beetles. Here's what works for us: 1. set up a good sprinkler and drench the plants with plain old water 2 x per day. Or hose them off if you don't have a sprinkler. The flea beetles never seem to bother wet leaves. 2. Cover susceptible plants as soon as you plant them. We cover eggplant, collards, mustards, arugula, tatsoi with remay and SEAL all edges with soil. This works wonders with the greens. We had total success with eggplants, too. But you have to take the covers off for pollination. 3. Once the plants are big enough, they aren't bothered much by the flea beetles. Even potatoes that looked completely eaten did not seem to have a decrease in yield. 4. Rotenone would probably work, but I don't use it. Leslie Zuck Pa Certified Organic and Common Ground Farm In a message dated 6/14/99 8:33:02 PM, rbfarr@erols.com wrote: <> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 16:33:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21681 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19891 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:53:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA19802 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990624195335.OHJK17489.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:53:35 -0700 Message-ID: <37728D1A.1F346C4F@home.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:55:06 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1108 References: <199906241539.LAA09554@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1408 Robinia pseudo-acacia---"black locust" , legume, fast growing,invasive, very high rot resistance, can last 80 years in ground contact. Traditional fence post of old as well as tree in the woodlot.. Hard, resinous, dense,strrong, tough to mill, but splitting prolly ok... Dont have a source, altho am growing variety "haudenosaunee" which is supposed to be very straight growing, Seems pretty vigorous sofar. bill evans > > Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber > > > Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for > this type of fencing?> > Thanks. > Gerry > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 16:55:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA22330 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:55:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA29035 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:08:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sal.awwwsome.com (sal.awwwsome.com [206.155.34.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28995 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:08:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from awwwsome.com ([206.155.34.160]) by sal.awwwsome.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34763U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA15483; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:07:35 -0700 Message-ID: <37728E6E.31A0E71F@awwwsome.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:00:46 -0700 From: Gary Matson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerry Cohn CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1409 The ag department at our local junior college has a mold that they use to make concrete fence posts. Reinforcing iron is placed inside before pouring the concrete, and I suppose bolts or such could be embedded to provide for connectivity for wire or wood strips later. For just the corners or breaks in slope, they would seem to be pretty practical. I'm sure they didn't think up the idea themselves, so the details must be available somewhere 'out there'. -- Gary Matson Far Northern California http://www.plantstogo.com Adapted Plants for Hot Summer Climates Gerry Cohn wrote: > I'm trying to build a permanent fence to keep goats in and various > predators out. I'm looking to use woven wire, with a hot strand or two on > top. All the fencebuiders in my area are insistent on using treated posts, > at least for the corners. > > Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for > this type of fencing? > > Thanks. > > Gerry Cohn/Jessica LaMontagne > 1105 W. Greensboro-Chapel Hill Road > Snow Camp, NC 27349 > 336-376-8765 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 17:03:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA22527 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA04976 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:19:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.clarityconnect.com (smtp.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA04870 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Craig (24.95.191.170) by smtp.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d2); Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:19:15 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990624161220.00948be0@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: cdcramer@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:17:10 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Craig Cramer Subject: Re: electric fencing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1410 On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:50:35 -0500, "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" wrote: > > I would suggest sustainable ag connection web site. Is Craig Cramer > reading for web address? I'm reading, Greg. It's just that I'm about a week behind. I've got links to online fence-building resources at: http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/links/fencebld.htm It seems like a couple of them had info about hog fencing, but most concern themselves primarily with sheep and cattle. Hope this is helpful. Craig Craig Cramer mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming http://1000ways.baka.com Sustainable Farming Connection http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 17:39:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA23540 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA24884 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:55:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA24826 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20902 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EDWHWWCN; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:54:43 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:40:48 -0700 Subject: re:Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber Message-ID: <19990624.134115.3462.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3,16,22,24-25 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1411 When we started building fences, the locals and the experts at hardware and feed stores all said we had to use expensive corner posts, but I found an old booklet on fencing that described a method which we modified to our satisfaction. Our fence is supported on metal T posts of various grades. For the corners and adjacent to the corners, we made sure we used the heavier grade of T post and set them no more than 8 feet between the corner and its nearest neighbor. We then took an 8 foot redwood rail (nominally 2x3 inches--sold for redwood fences), notched each end to fit the T posts, fastened some wire near each end, and secured the rail near the tops of the posts. Then we wrapped 9 gage wire from the bottom of the corner post diagonally to the top of the next post and back to the bottom at the corner. We used a stick (scrap 1x2) to twist the 9 gage wire to pull the adjacent post toward the corner. This effectively kept the corner post from sagging as we tightened the fence wire. (Sometimes we had to give the 9 gage wire a few extra twists as we pulled the fencing tight just to keep the corner post vertical.) Any rigid post or beam could work in place of the rail for the brace. In one case, we ran out of rails and used an ordinary 2x4. They are exposed to the weather but are not in contact with the soil so should last indefinitely in our arid climate. The rails were satisfactory although a few bent shortly after installation, so don't look as nice as they might. This method also works to brace gate posts, for which we usually used 4x4 cedar lumber from Sutherlands or Home Depot. Happy fencing. Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 17:43:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA23615 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA02204 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:04:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA02189 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26884>; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:09:55 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Patricia Ruggiero" cc: "Sustainable Agriculture" Message-Id: <99Jun24.160955cdt.26884@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:02:24 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: Flea Beetles - leaf washing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1412 Up here, we are mostly bothered by flea beetles during very dry springs. So the leaf washing tactic makes some sense to me on brassicas anyways. I'd be real careful about any foliage wetting of nightshades tho- it might cause more problems with disease than it solves with pests. This season has been cold & rainy; cold & dry; hot & dry; AND hot & humid in successive weeks! Some local mkt gardeners had to spray early brocoli & cabbage transplants because of flea beetles & I saw graduate student's family plots at the university devastated but I didn't see any damage at all in my garden. We've been harvesting spinach & oriental fry greens since May 22, brocoli since June 14. I'd like to believe that the relative absence of pests in an otherwise troublesome year is due to the massive amount of soil improvement we've done here... On the other hand, It could just be dumb luck... "Patricia Ruggiero" on 06/24/99 02:26:47 PM To: "Sustainable Agriculture" cc: Subject: FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! Message #3 of 3 Pat -----Original Message----- From: Organic Gardening Discussion List [mailto:OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU] Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:54 PM To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: Re: Flea Beetles - Help!! I don't think the DE will help with flea beetles. Here's what works for us: 1. set up a good sprinkler and drench the plants with plain old water 2 x per day. Or hose them off if you don't have a sprinkler. The flea beetles never seem to bother wet leaves. 2. Cover susceptible plants as soon as you plant them. We cover eggplant, collards, mustards, arugula, tatsoi with remay and SEAL all edges with soil. This works wonders with the greens. We had total success with eggplants, too. But you have to take the covers off for pollination. 3. Once the plants are big enough, they aren't bothered much by the flea beetles. Even potatoes that looked completely eaten did not seem to have a decrease in yield. 4. Rotenone would probably work, but I don't use it. Leslie Zuck Pa Certified Organic and Common Ground Farm In a message dated 6/14/99 8:33:02 PM, rbfarr@erols.com wrote: <> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 22:10:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA28214 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA05966 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:39:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05884 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0462.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.207]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19943; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3772CFDC.4B5EBE76@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:39:56 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lon J. Rombough" CC: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Subject: Re: FW: Chicory Is a Biological Plow and Sponge, All in One References: <199906241445.HAA10893@hevanet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1414 Newman Turner in his book, Fertility Pastures, says this about chicory, which he found to be one of the 3 best liked herbs in his pastures: "Of all the plants available to the farmer, none provides a richer source of all the minerals and trace elements, vitamins and plant hormones than chicory. "Its thick tap root penetrates, during the normal period of the pasture, a depth of anything up to 10 ft, gathering and transmitting to its stem and leaves all the known minerals and micorelements necessary for animal health and fertility. "Chicory will grow anywhere, Its deep roots will seek out its own nutritional and moisture requirements over a wide area and great depth, resulting in its survival under almost any conditions....." etc etc So everyone else finding chicory valuable is a johhny- come -lately. Lon J. Rombough wrote: > ---------- > From: "ARS News Service" > To: "ARS News List" > Subject: Chicory Is a Biological Plow and Sponge, All in One > Date: Thu, Jun 24, 1999, 6:48 AM > > STORY LEAD: > Chicory Is a Biological Plow and Sponge, All in One > > ----------- > ARS News Service > Agricultural Research Service, USDA > Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov > June 24, 1999 > ----------- > > Chicory, a hardy plant that can survive the sidewalk jungle, may be just the > thing for pastoral rigors as well, according to a scientist with the > Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific wing. > > With its carrot-like taproot, chicory can plow its way down to great depths > through hard, marginal soils--and even cracks in a sidewalk. In a pasture, > it relentlessly recycles excess soil nitrogen into protein for livestock > before the nitrogen can pollute groundwater. The deep rooting could also > explain how chicory stays green and leafy in hot, dry summers--to keep > feeding sheep and cattle after most pasture plants have stopped growing. > > Chicory's nitrogen appetite seems endless. ARS agronomist David P. Belesky > found that this biological sponge can soak it up even at commercial > fertilizer rates as high as 425 pounds an acre. > > At ARS' Appalachian Farming Systems Research Center in Beaver, W.Va., > Belesky and colleagues have been testing three varieties--Grasslands Puna, > Forage Feast and Lacerta--on Appalachian pastures for the past four years. > > Now they're checking the plant's appetite for nitrogen, phosphorus and other > nutrients in composted turkey litter cleaned from turkey houses. It could > become the preferred fertilizer for pastures in West Virginia, because it is > inexpensive and readily available from nearby turkey farms. British United > Turkeys of America, a turkey-production firm with breeding operations in > southern West Virginia, is helping with the tests. > > Belesky and colleagues are testing the chicory in a pasture mix of > orchardgrass and white clover. They want to see whether the deep-rooting > chicory and orchardgrass can soak up any nitrogen and water missed by the > shallow-rooting clover. A story about the research appears in the June > issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine and on the web at: > > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jun99/turk0699.htm > > ---------- > Scientific contact: David P. Belesky, ARS Appalachian Farming Systems > Research Center, 1224 Airport Rd., Beaver, WV 25813-9423; phone (304) > 256-2841, fax (304) 256-2921, dbelesky@asrr.arsusda.gov. > ---------- > This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information > distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the > latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at > http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. > * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. > * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD > 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 22:10:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA28222 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:10:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA06363 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:39:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA06274 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0462.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.207]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20371; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3772DCA9.69BED48E@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:34:33 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Elazar CC: Patricia Ruggiero , Sustainable Agriculture Subject: Re: FW: Flea Beetles - leaf washing References: <99Jun24.160955cdt.26884@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1415 Yes, it is always due to good soil that pests stay away. That is the one and only way to be free from pests. Callahan explains it exactly. Everyone should read the works of Philip Callahan. I copied his info, with his OK, so I can quote from my Primer BASICS book: "Insect communication is electromagnetic... antennae are used for wavelengths....Insects have antennae...the sensilla are the actual antennae....Insects zero in on the ingrared maserlike frequencies emitted by scent molecules. Insect communication is electromagnetic... Plant hairs are wave-guide antennae control systems. There is a difference between what health and unhealthy plants emit, and this is what insects can sense....That is why it is important to make the soil adequate, rather than trying to remediate effects of poor soil." See, this is why I try so very very hard to get people to spend their time, energy and money on FIRST building up the soil. Instead they want to rush thru the soil and then spend forever fussing with this and that to keep off pests. All wrong !! If the soil is adequate, no bugs want the plants living there. It is very disappointing to me, after all the long, hard, half-starved years I have spent trying to get folks to see the real facts. Now I am old and surely have not much more time left here, and what results do I see for all that massive amount of never-ending effort? Same old story, everyone wants a quick fix, instead of building the soil, building the soil, building the soil, building the soil, building the soil, building the building--------- Year 2000??? year 2001? 2002? ??????????? "Remember, there used to be an old dame that always talked about how bugs came because the soil wasn't good????" Pat Elazar wrote: > Up here, we are mostly bothered by flea beetles during very dry springs. So the > leaf washing tactic makes some sense to me on brassicas anyways. I'd be real > careful about any foliage wetting of nightshades tho- it might cause more > problems with disease than it solves with pests. This season has been cold & > rainy; cold & dry; hot & dry; AND hot & humid in successive weeks! Some local > mkt gardeners had to spray early brocoli & cabbage transplants because of flea > beetles & I saw graduate student's family plots at the university devastated but > I didn't see any damage at all in my garden. We've been harvesting spinach & > oriental fry greens since May 22, brocoli since June 14. I'd like to believe > that the relative absence of pests in an otherwise troublesome year is due to > the massive amount of soil improvement we've done here... On the other hand, It > could just be dumb luck... > > "Patricia Ruggiero" on 06/24/99 02:26:47 PM > > > > To: "Sustainable Agriculture" > > cc: > > > > Subject: FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! > > > Message #3 of 3 > > Pat > > -----Original Message----- > From: Organic Gardening Discussion List [mailto:OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU] > Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:54 PM > To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU > Subject: Re: Flea Beetles - Help!! > > I don't think the DE will help with flea beetles. Here's what works for us: > 1. set up a good sprinkler and drench the plants with plain old water 2 x > per > day. Or hose them off if you don't have a sprinkler. The flea beetles never > seem to bother wet leaves. > 2. Cover susceptible plants as soon as you plant them. We cover eggplant, > collards, mustards, arugula, tatsoi with remay and SEAL all edges with soil. > This works wonders with the greens. We had total success with eggplants, > too. > But you have to take the covers off for pollination. > 3. Once the plants are big enough, they aren't bothered much by the flea > beetles. Even potatoes that looked completely eaten did not seem to have a > decrease in yield. > 4. Rotenone would probably work, but I don't use it. > Leslie Zuck > Pa Certified Organic > and > Common Ground Farm > > In a message dated 6/14/99 8:33:02 PM, rbfarr@erols.com wrote: > > < > My garden is being overrun with flea beetles - not just on my peppers, > but on EVERYTHING. > > Going to get some Diatomaceous Earth today. But wonder what I can do to > prevent/conquer such outbreaks. > > I assume they're living in the grass - I'm on 10 acres of mostly > pasture, surrounded by 100s more. So, they're probably in the grass. > But I've never been inundated by one pest - usually, the problems are > local, and there may be several pests. > > But this year - wow! We're in a drought here, so that prob. is also to > blame. And last winter was mild. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance - > > Robert. > >> > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jun 24 22:10:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA28227 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:10:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA05537 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:38:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from www14.clever.net (www14.clever.net [209.196.14.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05470 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chitch (r-152.88.alltel.net [166.102.152.88]) by www14.clever.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA23012 for ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003401bebeaa$eb923d20$589866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Reply-To: "Jere Hitchcock" From: "Jere Hitchcock" To: Subject: fly control Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:34:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEBE89.61F20300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEBE89.61F20300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fly control: We have an Ostrich ranch in Danieslville, GA . We grind and mix our own = feed to give us a mix of feed which is healthy (no hormones etc...) and = safe for the animals. We are striving to produce an "almost" organic = meat. We use soy bean meal for a source of protein. This material = seems to attract flys from several other counties. I have heard from = two sources who were telling me about a plastic bag filled with water = attached about 4 feet off the ground which repelled flys. One person = said that he witnessed the phenomena himself and it worked. The theory = told to me was the reflected sunlight from the water was offensive to = the fly. I have tried the bags with no success. And yes, I have been = "snipe hunting" before... Question: Is there any truth to this matter. = Is there any special type of bag or water used to get the desired = results or is this just a "fairy tale" ? =20 Diatomaceous Earth seems to work well but would like some other options. = Thanks for the comments. Jere B. Hitchcock JC Ostrich Ranch Home of "OBB" our 10 foot tall bird and his 250 big friends Danielsville, Georgia 706.789.2915 www.jcranch.com ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEBE89.61F20300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Fly control:
     
    We have an Ostrich ranch in Danieslville, GA .  = We grind=20 and mix our own feed to give us a mix of feed which is healthy (no = hormones=20 etc...) and safe for the animals.  We are striving to produce an=20 "almost" organic meat.  We use soy bean meal for a source = of=20 protein.  This material seems to attract flys from several other=20 counties.  I have heard from two sources who were telling me about = a=20 plastic bag filled with water attached about 4 feet off the ground which = repelled flys.  One person said that he witnessed the phenomena = himself and=20 it worked.  The theory told to me was the reflected sunlight from = the water=20 was offensive to the fly.  I have tried the bags with no = success.  And=20 yes, I have been "snipe hunting" before... Question:  Is = there=20 any truth to this matter.  Is there any special type of bag or = water used=20 to get the desired results or is this just a "fairy tale"=20 ?  

    Diatomaceous Earth seems to work well but would like some other=20 options.  Thanks for the comments.

     
    Jere B. Hitchcock
    JC Ostrich Ranch
    Home of "OBB" our 10 foot = tall bird=20 and his 250 big = friends
    Danielsville,=20 Georgia
    706.789.2915
    www.jcranch.com
    ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BEBE89.61F20300-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 09:23:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA05171 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA00287 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:23:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umailsrv2.umd.edu (umailsrv2.umd.edu [128.8.10.76]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00220; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umail.umd.edu (bay2-14.dial.umd.edu [128.8.22.78]) by umailsrv2.umd.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA00389; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:23:14 -0400 Message-ID: <377374F8.C5CA00CC@umail.umd.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:24:25 -0400 From: "Raymond R. Weil" Organization: University of Maryland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re:fence locust posts References: <199906242210.SAA09498@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------749A4A7A882F12F49B8D2385" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1417 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------749A4A7A882F12F49B8D2385 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just a note on the use of Black Locust for fence posts. They are indeed very rot resistant IF the bark is peeled off before using them ( I use a draw knife or machete blade to do this. It comes off easily in long strips). If the bark is left on, bark beetles will make them susceptible to rot and they will not last nearly as long. The left-overs, by the way, make very good fire wood when dry, with a high heat energy content. Happy fencing. Ray Weil sanet-mg-digest wrote: > sanet-mg-digest Thursday, June 24 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1109 > > In this issue: > > Re: flea beetles > FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! > FW: Re: flea beetles > Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1108 > Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber > Re: electric fencing > re:Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber > Re: FW: Flea Beetles - leaf washing > > See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:45 -0400 > From: "Patricia Ruggiero" > Subject: Re: flea beetles > > I'm forwarding three messages from the OG list on combating flea beetles. > This is #1. > > My husband used this concoction on our eggplant seedlings and it did seem to > discourage the beetles. > > Pat > > - -----Original Message----- > From: kathleen feingold [mailto:eric@INTERBOOK.NET] > Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 5:24 PM > To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU > Subject: Re: Somebody's munching on my eggplants > > Hi Gardeners, > I'm taking the liberty of translating this for non-Spanish speakers > as it > is something that might be interesting or useful (it's something that I've > never heard of before, on or off this list). > > "Treat with 1/2 an onion in ten liters of water, leave it to soak for 24 > hours, filter and apply directly on the problem." > > At 18:21 22-05-99 , Jesus Valero G wrote: > >Hola Norberto: > > > >Trata con 1/2 de cebolla en 10 litros de agua, dejala repozar 24 horas, > >filra y aplica direactamente sobre el problema. > > > >Saludos > > > > > >At 12:45 PM 7/05/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>Somebody is leaving round little (and some no so little) holes on my > >>eggplant leaves. Not on the perimeter but in the middle. Any ideas what is > >>and how to combat it (organically). > >> > >>TIA, Norberto > >> > >M.C. Jess Valero Garza > >Campo Experimental Quertaro INIFAP > >Pasteur sur 414, 2 piso, Col. Valle Alameda > >C.P. 76040, Quertaro, Qro. > >Mxico > > > >Tel y Fax: (42) 24-02-84 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:47 -0400 > From: "Patricia Ruggiero" > Subject: FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! > > Message #3 of 3 > > Pat > > - -----Original Message----- > From: Organic Gardening Discussion List [mailto:OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU] > Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:54 PM > To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU > Subject: Re: Flea Beetles - Help!! > > I don't think the DE will help with flea beetles. Here's what works for us: > 1. set up a good sprinkler and drench the plants with plain old water 2 x > per > day. Or hose them off if you don't have a sprinkler. The flea beetles never > seem to bother wet leaves. > 2. Cover susceptible plants as soon as you plant them. We cover eggplant, > collards, mustards, arugula, tatsoi with remay and SEAL all edges with soil. > This works wonders with the greens. We had total success with eggplants, > too. > But you have to take the covers off for pollination. > 3. Once the plants are big enough, they aren't bothered much by the flea > beetles. Even potatoes that looked completely eaten did not seem to have a > decrease in yield. > 4. Rotenone would probably work, but I don't use it. > Leslie Zuck > Pa Certified Organic > and > Common Ground Farm > > In a message dated 6/14/99 8:33:02 PM, rbfarr@erols.com wrote: > > < > My garden is being overrun with flea beetles - not just on my peppers, > but on EVERYTHING. > > Going to get some Diatomaceous Earth today. But wonder what I can do to > prevent/conquer such outbreaks. > > I assume they're living in the grass - I'm on 10 acres of mostly > pasture, surrounded by 100s more. So, they're probably in the grass. > But I've never been inundated by one pest - usually, the problems are > local, and there may be several pests. > > But this year - wow! We're in a drought here, so that prob. is also to > blame. And last winter was mild. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance - > > Robert. > >> > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:46 -0400 > From: "Patricia Ruggiero" > Subject: FW: Re: flea beetles > > Message #2 of 3 > > Pat > > - -----Original Message----- > From: Tony & Moira Ryan [mailto:theryans@XTRA.CO.NZ] > Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 1:55 AM > To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU > Subject: Re: Somebody's munching on my eggplants > > kathleen feingold wrote: > > > > Hi Gardeners, > > I'm taking the liberty of translating this for non-Spanish > speakers as it > > is something that might be interesting or useful (it's something that I've > > never heard of before, on or off this list). > > > > "Treat with 1/2 an onion in ten liters of water, leave it to soak for 24 > > hours, filter and apply directly on the problem." > > Kathleen > > Many thanks, you translators perform a valuable service for us who are > poor linguists. > > No, I haven't come across onion spray, though similar preparations from > garlic are common enough. If it acts like garlic, I would expect it to > be mainly an antifeedent, though I suppose it might also act against > some diseases, especially if the onion used has a high sulphur content. > > (apropos of which I understand that the "hottest" onions are those > produced under rather dry conditions. > > Moira > - -- > Tony & Moira Ryan > Wainuiomata, > New Zealand (astride the "Ring of Fire" in the SW Pacific). > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:55:06 -0700 > From: William Evans > Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1108 > > Robinia pseudo-acacia---"black locust" , legume, fast growing,invasive, > very high rot resistance, can last 80 years in ground contact. > Traditional fence post of old as well as tree in the woodlot.. > Hard, resinous, dense,strrong, tough to mill, but splitting prolly ok... > Dont have a source, altho am growing variety "haudenosaunee" which is > supposed to be very straight growing, Seems pretty vigorous sofar. > bill evans > > > > Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber > > > > > > Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for > > this type of fencing?> > > Thanks. > Gerry > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:00:46 -0700 > From: Gary Matson > Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber > > The ag department at our local junior college has a mold that they use to make > concrete fence posts. Reinforcing iron is placed inside before pouring the > concrete, and I suppose bolts or such could be embedded to provide for > connectivity for wire or wood strips later. For just the corners or breaks in > slope, they would seem to be pretty practical. I'm sure they didn't think up > the idea themselves, so the details must be available somewhere 'out there'. > - -- > Gary Matson Far Northern California > http://www.plantstogo.com > Adapted Plants for Hot Summer Climates > > Gerry Cohn wrote: > > > I'm trying to build a permanent fence to keep goats in and various > > predators out. I'm looking to use woven wire, with a hot strand or two on > > top. All the fencebuiders in my area are insistent on using treated posts, > > at least for the corners. > > > > Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for > > this type of fencing? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Gerry Cohn/Jessica LaMontagne > > 1105 W. Greensboro-Chapel Hill Road > > Snow Camp, NC 27349 > > 336-376-8765 > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:17:10 -0400 > From: Craig Cramer > Subject: Re: electric fencing > > On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:50:35 -0500, "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" > wrote: > > > > > I would suggest sustainable ag connection web site. Is Craig Cramer > > reading for web address? > > I'm reading, Greg. It's just that I'm about a week behind. I've got links to > online fence-building resources at: > > http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/links/fencebld.htm > > It seems like a couple of them had info about hog fencing, but most concern > themselves primarily with sheep and cattle. > > Hope this is helpful. > > Craig > > Craig Cramer > mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com > > 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming > http://1000ways.baka.com > > Sustainable Farming Connection > http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:40:48 -0700 > From: Edna M Weigel > Subject: re:Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber > > When we started building fences, the locals and the experts at > hardware and feed stores all said we had to use expensive corner posts, > but I found an old booklet on fencing that described a method which we > modified to our satisfaction. > Our fence is supported on metal T posts of various grades. For > the corners and adjacent to the corners, we made sure we used the heavier > grade of T post and set them no more than 8 feet between the corner and > its nearest neighbor. We then took an 8 foot redwood rail (nominally 2x3 > inches--sold for redwood fences), notched each end to fit the T posts, > fastened some wire near each end, and secured the rail near the tops of > the posts. Then we wrapped 9 gage wire from the bottom of the corner > post diagonally to the top of the next post and back to the bottom at the > corner. We used a stick (scrap 1x2) to twist the 9 gage wire to pull the > adjacent post toward the corner. This effectively kept the corner post > from sagging as we tightened the fence wire. (Sometimes we had to give > the 9 gage wire a few extra twists as we pulled the fencing tight just to > keep the corner post vertical.) > Any rigid post or beam could work in place of the rail for the > brace. In one case, we ran out of rails and used an ordinary 2x4. They > are exposed to the weather but are not in contact with the soil so should > last indefinitely in our arid climate. The rails were satisfactory > although a few bent shortly after installation, so don't look as nice as > they might. > This method also works to brace gate posts, for which we usually > used 4x4 cedar lumber from Sutherlands or Home Depot. > Happy fencing. Edna > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:02:24 -0500 > From: "Pat Elazar" > Subject: Re: FW: Flea Beetles - leaf washing > > Up here, we are mostly bothered by flea beetles during very dry springs. So the > leaf washing tactic makes some sense to me on brassicas anyways. I'd be real > careful about any foliage wetting of nightshades tho- it might cause more > problems with disease than it solves with pests. This season has been cold & > rainy; cold & dry; hot & dry; AND hot & humid in successive weeks! Some local > mkt gardeners had to spray early brocoli & cabbage transplants because of flea > beetles & I saw graduate student's family plots at the university devastated but > I didn't see any damage at all in my garden. We've been harvesting spinach & > oriental fry greens since May 22, brocoli since June 14. I'd like to believe > that the relative absence of pests in an otherwise troublesome year is due to > the massive amount of soil improvement we've done here... On the other hand, It > could just be dumb luck... > > "Patricia Ruggiero" on 06/24/99 02:26:47 PM > > > > To: "Sustainable Agriculture" > > cc: > > > > Subject: FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! > > > Message #3 of 3 > > Pat > > - -----Original Message----- > From: Organic Gardening Discussion List [mailto:OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU] > Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:54 PM > To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU > Subject: Re: Flea Beetles - Help!! > > I don't think the DE will help with flea beetles. Here's what works for us: > 1. set up a good sprinkler and drench the plants with plain old water 2 x > per > day. Or hose them off if you don't have a sprinkler. The flea beetles never > seem to bother wet leaves. > 2. Cover susceptible plants as soon as you plant them. We cover eggplant, > collards, mustards, arugula, tatsoi with remay and SEAL all edges with soil. > This works wonders with the greens. We had total success with eggplants, > too. > But you have to take the covers off for pollination. > 3. Once the plants are big enough, they aren't bothered much by the flea > beetles. Even potatoes that looked completely eaten did not seem to have a > decrease in yield. > 4. Rotenone would probably work, but I don't use it. > Leslie Zuck > Pa Certified Organic > and > Common Ground Farm > > In a message dated 6/14/99 8:33:02 PM, rbfarr@erols.com wrote: > > < > My garden is being overrun with flea beetles - not just on my peppers, > but on EVERYTHING. > > Going to get some Diatomaceous Earth today. But wonder what I can do to > prevent/conquer such outbreaks. > > I assume they're living in the grass - I'm on 10 acres of mostly > pasture, surrounded by 100s more. So, they're probably in the grass. > But I've never been inundated by one pest - usually, the problems are > local, and there may be several pests. > > But this year - wow! We're in a drought here, so that prob. is also to > blame. And last winter was mild. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance - > > Robert. > >> > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1109 > ******************************* > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". --------------749A4A7A882F12F49B8D2385 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="rw17.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Raymond R. Weil Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rw17.vcf" begin:vcard n:Weil;Ray R. tel;fax:301 314 9041 tel;work:301 405 1314 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.agnr.umd.edu/users/nrsl/faculty/weil.htm org:University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 version:2.1 email;internet:rw17@umail.umd.edu title:Professor of Soil Science note:http://www.agnr.umd.edu/users/nrsl/faculty/weil.htm http://www.prenhall.com/books/ect_0138524440.html adr;quoted-printable:;;Dept. of Natural Resource Sciences & L.A.=0D=0A1103b H.J. Patterson Hall;College Park;Maryland;20742;USA x-mozilla-cpt:;2912 fn:Ray R. Weil end:vcard --------------749A4A7A882F12F49B8D2385-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 11:47:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07903 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16318 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:37:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@[12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16300 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (node187.csj.net [208.138.185.187] (may be forged)) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA31518; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:37:58 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "'Jere Hitchcock'" , Subject: RE: fly control Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:22:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bebf17$fca24ac0$4506fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003401bebeaa$eb923d20$589866a6@chitch.alltel.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1418 What is wrong with Diatomaceous Earth? It not only controls external flies but controls internal parasites in ostriches and rheas as well. It is cheap, environmentally safe, doesn't cause liver damage, and is readily available. The plastic bag theory makes no sense and even if it does work, it doesn't control as many problems as diatomaceous earth. Under no circumstances should commercial fly bait be used around juvenile ostriches and rheas, it can initiate fading chick syndrome when the chicks eat the contaminated flies. It is critical to these infants that they be raised in as near organic environment as possible. Donna Fezler Pioneering Research in Reversing Autoimmune Disorders through Detoxification and Nutrition while Leading the World in Rhea Research and Innovation http:www.rhealiving.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [SMTP:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Jere Hitchcock Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 8:35 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: fly control Fly control: We have an Ostrich ranch in Danieslville, GA . We grind and mix our own feed to give us a mix of feed which is healthy (no hormones etc...) and safe for the animals. We are striving to produce an "almost" organic meat. We use soy bean meal for a source of protein. This material seems to attract flys from several other counties. I have heard from two sources who were telling me about a plastic bag filled with water attached about 4 feet off the ground which repelled flys. One person said that he witnessed the phenomena himself and it worked. The theory told to me was the reflected sunlight from the water was offensive to the fly. I have tried the bags with no success. And yes, I have been "snipe hunting" before... Question: Is there any truth to this matter. Is there any special type of bag or water used to get the desired results or is this just a "fairy tale" ? Diatomaceous Earth seems to work well but would like some other options. Thanks for the comments. Jere B. Hitchcock JC Ostrich Ranch Home of "OBB" our 10 foot tall bird and his 250 big friends Danielsville, Georgia 706.789.2915 www.jcranch.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 13:16:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA10246 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA15184 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:22:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15128 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.30] (gl-ppp10.hevanet.com [204.119.60.30]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18076; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906251621.JAA18076@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:15:43 -0700 Subject: FW: "Hiding Place" of New Turkey Ailment From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1419 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: "Hiding Place" of New Turkey Ailment Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999, 7:14 AM STORY LEAD: Researchers Find Internal "Hiding Place" of New Turkey Ailment ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Jim De Quattro, (301) 504-1626, jdequattro@asrr.arsusda.gov June 25, 1999 ----------- A new disease has been killing flocks of turkeys in the Southeast since 1995. Now, scientists with USDA's Agricultural Research Service and North Carolina State University have identified one of its hiding places--and its first internal target: the turkey's disease-fighting lymph tissue. Poult Enteritis Mortality Syndrome, or PEMS, weakens the turkey's immune system, leaving it highly vulnerable to bacterial and parasitic infections. But the new discovery could lead to better understanding and--eventually--treatment and prevention. PEMS outbreaks in the Southeast have cost the turkey industry millions of dollars in losses annually. Other outbreaks have been reported in Texas and Virginia. PEMS-related mortality ranges between 25 to 96 percent in affected flocks. Birds that recover reach only about 40 percent of typical market weight. The syndrome is apparently a deadly combination of viruses. Specific causative agents have not yet been identified, according to microbiologist Stacey L. Schultz-Cherry at the ARS Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory in Athens, Ga. But she and ARS colleagues, collaborating with NCSU veterinarian John Barnes in Raleigh, N.C., found that PEMS strikes first in the thymus, or lymphoid glands of turkeys. Very few viruses are known to grow in the thymus. The ability of a virus to infect the thymus is a special concern because it is a designated disease fighter. The researchers recently isolated one virus from the thymus of a turkey sick with PEMS. They are attempting to identify it and determine its role in PEMS. The research will aid in developing diagnostic tools and treatments to prevent future outbreaks. Increased vigilance on turkey farms has decreased the incidence of PEMS, But before scientists can develop effective treatments, they need to learn much more about the causative agent or agents and their effects on the turkey's immune response. Schultz-Cherry is scheduled to present detailed findings on July 13 at the American Veterinary Association Meeting in New Orleans. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific wing. ---------- Scientific contacts: Stacey Schultz-Cherry or David Swayne, ARS Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory, Athens, Ga., phone (706) 546-3432, fax (706) 546-3161, sschultzcherry@sprynet.com or dswayne@arches.uga.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 13:36:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA10734 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA23391 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:34:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eye.micron.net (eye.micron.net [198.60.253.88]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23293 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (cboi14p75.boi.micron.net [204.229.102.76]) by eye.micron.net (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21265 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:34:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3773B011.794F@micron.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:36:34 -0600 From: The Schraders Reply-To: bschrade@micron.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: dumb question? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1420 Hi... We have three Holstein steers who are rotating through 5 paddocks in our 4 1/2 acre irrigated pasture. This is our first time having any livestock (which you will be able to tell by the next question). For the past few months they have looked nice and healthy, but I noticed today that they are attracting a lot of little bugs that seem to light on them and kind of just hang there, mostly. These look, in size, about halfway between a housefly and a gnat. Is this common and/or no problem, or is it a sign of some gross negligence on our part? :) Help please. Diane outside Nampa, Idaho To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 15:26:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA13983 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA00644 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:28:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00581 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:32:28 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Agroforestry Resources Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:32:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1421 An announcement of some Agroforestry Resources: USDA NATIONAL AGROFORESTRY CENTER The USDA National Agroforestry Center located in Lincoln NE has announced the availability of new resource materials. Information and education on agroforestry is of value in NY's educational programs addressing issues related to agricultural and food systems sustainability. These materials are available at no cost. The center has a newsletter entitled "Agroforestry Notes." A publication entitled "Agoforestry for Farms and Ranch" is a 26 page technical note describing the use of tree and shrub practices in agricultural land use settings. A new series of brochures has also been released: Working Trees for Agriculture, Working Trees for Livestock, Working Trees for Wildlife and Working Trees for Communities. To obtain more information about the center, its publications, or to order publications visit the Center's Web Site at http://www.unl.edu/nac or contact Nancy Hammond, USDA National Agroforestry Center, East Campus-UNL, Lincoln, NE 68583-0822; FAX 402-243-5712 phone 402-437-5178 ext 24. - Jim VanKirk Facilitator for IPM Activities Northeast Region Education Center 248 Grant Ave. Auburn, NY 13021-1495 315-255-1183 315-255-1187 fax email: jvankirk@cce.cornell.edu Check out the web site, IPM in the Northeast Region, at http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ipmnet/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 16:33:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA15622 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA20601 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:50:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA20564 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:54:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: Sustainable Agriculture Network , Abiola Adeyemi , "'Ray Kimsey'" Subject: Andy away: sanet administration Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:54:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1422 SANet: I will be out of the office for most of July. My assistant, Abiola Adeyemi, will be watching over the sanet list in my absence. IF YOU HAVE any problems with the list, please send mail to san@nal.usda.gov and Abiola will follow through to solution of the issue. If needed, call Abiola at 301-504-6422. Abiola will not be subscribed to the list, so sending a message to the list won't work. Remember that administrative commands must be sent to majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu, the big computer running the listserv. Subscription information pasted below. Have a good month, and I'll be back in touch in late July or early August. Enclosed are instructions for subscribing and unsubscribing from sanet-mg. NOTE that you must specify the digest format if you want to subscribe to it, or if you are already subscribed and want to unsubscribe. The digest compiles a day's messages and sends them all in one message. SUBSCRIBING To subscribe, send a message to: majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu In the BODY of the message type ONLY: subscribe sanet-mg To subscribe to the digest format, use the following INSTEAD of the above: subscribe sanet-mg-digest Be sure to save the instructions that are sent to you. You'll need them. UNSUBSCRIBING: To unsubscribe, send a message to: majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu In the BODY of the message type ONLY: unsubscribe sanet-mg To unsubscribe from the digest format, use the following INSTEAD of the above: unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest Please contact me if you have any further questions, and welcome to sanet! Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 USDA/ARS/National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 san@nal.usda.gov PH : (301) 504-6425 FAX: (301) 504-6409 http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 17:02:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16303 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA05177 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:16:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ace.orst.edu (IDENT:XYv840ODUArSUeaaIRxsl/d6+viaG79p@ace.orst.edu [128.193.97.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA05140 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ace.orst.edu (IDENT:p/zv2ojNJ/ry8O2oeg0p8Vr42MjuE2iF@ace.orst.edu [128.193.97.131]) by ace.orst.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00831; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:16:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Terry L. Miller" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" cc: Terry Miller Subject: Electronic version of Pesticide Poisoning Manual Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1423 Howdy! As many of you know, the new version of "Recognition and Management of Pesticide Poisonings" (previously known as the "Morgan manual") has been made available by U.S. EPA in hardcopy form. Now, I am happy to announce, the manual has been made available in electronic form (in PDF format) by the National Pesticide Telecommunications Network. It is available from the NPTN home page at - http://ace.orst.edu/info/nptn/ or directly at - http://ace.orst.edu/info/nptn/rmpp.htm I hope that you find this useful, and I would appreciate your comments about how the electronic version can be made more useful. NPTN plans to provide further enhancements, e.g., as hyperlinking, in the near future. Terry Miller = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Terry Miller - Professor & Director, National Pesticide Telecommunications Network Environmental & Molecular Toxicology Ag Chemistry Extension Oregon State University Email: millert@ace.orst.edu 333 Weniger Phone: 541/737-1811 Corvallis, OR 97331-6502 FAX: 541/737-0761 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 18:26:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA17755 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA02159 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA02024 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool0452.cvx2-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.135.197]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id N4328HV5; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:45:27 -0400 Message-ID: <3773FB27.3114ED95@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:56:56 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: treated wood alternatives- References: <199906242210.SAA09498@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1424 A couple- For our corner posts on high tensile electric we have always used cedar posts (eastern red?) (you need insulators for this) and for our line posts, we often use these posts Gallager imports that are a very dense wood that doesnt need insulatora and doesnt rot- cedar and red wood do not rot very fast at all, the advantage of cedar posts is that they grow relatively fast, last a long time, and are easy to control while growing (they dont take over) - they do only last about 10 years (they rot at the line of soil that is above the ground water level sometimes , but not always.) good luck phil To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jun 25 22:54:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20953 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA19820 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:17:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA19754 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 811159928worldnet ([12.79.226.71]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990626021655.YTQJ1709@811159928worldnet> for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:16:55 +0000 Message-ID: <006101bebf7a$2cc6e460$47e24f0c@att.net> Reply-To: "Mary C Kline" From: "Mary C Kline" To: References: <99Jun24.100442cdt.26888@mint.cwb.ca> Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber(caution) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:18:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1425 Pat Elazar wrote: > Maybe I mis-understood the thrust of the post cautioning against using Locust > (Gleditsia) as posts because of the thorns? > > Fence posts don't usually sucker (unless you use Willow!) at least in my mud- > perhaps your land is more bio-active than mine. If you were advising to use LIVE > Locust trees as fence posts, then be sure to get the variety Gleditsia > Triacanthos Inerma- the 3rd name literally means unarmed or thornless. > Bill Evans is correct, the Black Locust used for fence posts is Robinia pseudoacacia, not Honey Locust, Gleditsia triacanthos. I have not heard of a thornless variety, although propagators have tried to breed one. I had success controlling the suckers in my fence post lot by hand pruning them once per year, and by mowing to cut the seedlings. I have observed them to be less invasive in plant hardiness zone 5 and north. Has anyone in the upper midwest had the same observation? One comment on the use of Redwood in fencing - it is not sustainable. Mary To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 07:16:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA24804 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA03606 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:41:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA03520 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA00378; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 05:41:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-167.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.167) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000365; Sat Jun 26 05:40:55 1999 Message-ID: <004301bebfbf$ec642f40$24f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: dumb question? Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 06:37:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1426 I would say it's normal. We have livestock there are always flys. A humerous site is cow birds sitting on their heads(cattle's) eatting the flys. Beth -----Original Message----- From: The Schraders To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:41 PM Subject: dumb question? >Hi... >We have three Holstein steers who are rotating through 5 paddocks in our >4 1/2 acre irrigated pasture. This is our first time having any >livestock (which you will be able to tell by the next question). For the >past few months they have looked nice and healthy, but I noticed today >that they are attracting a lot of little bugs that seem to light on them >and kind of just hang there, mostly. These look, in size, about halfway >between a housefly and a gnat. Is this common and/or no problem, or is >it a sign of some gross negligence on our part? :) Help please. >Diane >outside Nampa, Idaho > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 08:40:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA25110 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA22930 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:03:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (dh-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA22907 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id IAA14980 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:00:09 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: FW: "Hiding Place" of New Turkey Ailment To: SANET-mg Message-ID: <199906260803_MC2-7AE0-8444@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1427 Thanks again Lon, It's good to know the ways our tax-supported researchers are enabling agricultural insanity. How many of the turkeys will be used as nothing more than (tasteless, frozen) supermarket loss leaders at Thanksgiving? Perhaps the hiding place is the hideous, large-scale, indoor turkey production facilities and in the drugs and insipid, industrial food that turkeys are given. (This hiding place is invisible to the microbiologist's laboratory.) Around here turkeys live outside eating a variety of foods, in smallish flocks, with lots of fresh air, pure water, exercise and sunlight. I appreciate this approach to living myself. I wouldn't be surprised if I got some strange immune related viruses if forced to live crowded together indoors on an unchanging diet of GE and industrially-raised food, breathing an atmosphere laced with ammonia. The USDA researchers here may be like the drunk who is looking for his keys underneath the street light, not because that's where he lost them, but because that's where the light is. As far as I know, the USDA has no researchers who have the expertise to look holistically at a system to diagnose system-caused diseases. I suspect that much of the diabetes, heart disease, and immune disorders in the humans in this country are also (industrial-food/living) system-caused diseases. When will the ARS show some real intelligence? Bill Duesing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 11:53:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26665 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22152 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:19:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@[12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22130 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jville-node39.csj.net [12.29.21.39]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10065 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:20:14 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "'SANET'" Subject: RE: "Hiding Place" of New Turkey Ailment Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:20:00 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01bebfe7$5f766da0$b295fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199906251621.JAA18076@hevanet.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1428 I just did a quick Medline search on this disease. It has all the symptoms and blood results of what we call "Fading Chick Syndrome" or Rubber Rhea Syndrome in rheas and ostriches, which are autoimmune disorders. These pathologists and vets are only looking for a pathogenic source of the problem. The symptoms not only match the rhea and ostrich problems, but the hypothyroidism is a serious problem in autoimmune disorders like fibromyalgia. My work just passed patent review and the patent will be issued in the fall for Ratite Extracts as Therapeutic Agents specifically for the treatment of fading chick syndrome and rubber rhea syndrome as autoimmune disorders and in other animals. These animals are actually dying of energy depletion. The energy molecule (ATP) is used competitively in detoxification and repair in a rate-limited manner. The biochemical pathways (which are also part of the patent) are on the website under ATP pathways. The pathogens they are finding are secondary to the primary diagnosis of TOXIN EXPOSURE or Stress. Stress can induce the body toxin response. They can vaccinate these birds till the cows come home and still there will be a problem. Knowing how turkeys are raised in confinement, the list of possible initiators is very, very long. Herbicide or pesticide drift from 1/4 mile away will cause 90% mortality in rhea chicks within 15 days. The survivors are stunted. Antibiotics can have a similar effect. Treatment that works in rheas and ostriches: SUSTAINABLE METHODS. Free range, non-polluted environments. Pasture rotation, natural liver detoxifiers, very high quality food ($$$) with very pure animal or insect protein-not "meat by-products"(preferably organic) at least in the infant stage, and a stress-free environment. More antibiotics only exacerbate the situation. By the way, my work has been vilified and ignored by the veterinarians, yet I am the only person on the able to totally reverse the condition. I also now hold a patent for treating the problem and I did it without one cent of grant money. Donna Fezler Pioneering Research in Reversing Autoimmune Disorders through Detoxification and Nutrition while Leading the World in Rhea Research and Innovation http://www.rhealiving.com To: "ARS News List" Subject: "Hiding Place" of New Turkey Ailment Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999, 7:14 AM STORY LEAD: Researchers Find Internal "Hiding Place" of New Turkey Ailment A new disease has been killing flocks of turkeys in the Southeast since 1995. Now, scientists with USDA's Agricultural Research Service and North Carolina State University have identified one of its hiding places--and its first internal target: the turkey's disease-fighting lymph tissue. Poult Enteritis Mortality Syndrome, or PEMS, weakens the turkey's immune system, leaving it highly vulnerable to bacterial and parasitic infections. But the new discovery could lead to better understanding and--eventually--treatment and prevention. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 15:26:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28320 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:26:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA02369 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:00:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA02322 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net ([209.178.170.231]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01617; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37747213.B9743D08@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:24:19 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jere Hitchcock CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: fly control References: <003401bebeaa$eb923d20$589866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------525AE66E117D12C8D53B66D9" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1429 --------------525AE66E117D12C8D53B66D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit get fly parasites from vendor such as RinconVitova, spread them around. Jere Hitchcock wrote: > Fly control: We have an Ostrich ranch in Danieslville, GA . We grind > and mix our own feed to give us a mix of feed which is healthy (no > hormones etc...) and safe for the animals. We are striving to produce > an "almost" organic meat. We use soy bean meal for a source of > protein. This material seems to attract flys from several other > counties. I have heard from two sources who were telling me about a > plastic bag filled with water attached about 4 feet off the ground > which repelled flys. One person said that he witnessed the phenomena > himself and it worked. The theory told to me was the reflected > sunlight from the water was offensive to the fly. I have tried the > bags with no success. And yes, I have been "snipe hunting" before... > Question: Is there any truth to this matter. Is there any special > type of bag or water used to get the desired results or is this just a > "fairy tale" ?Diatomaceous Earth seems to work well but would like > some other options. Thanks for the comments. Jere B. HitchcockJC > Ostrich RanchHome of "OBB" our 10 foot tall bird and his 250 big > friends > Danielsville, Georgia > 706.789.2915 > www.jcranch.com --------------525AE66E117D12C8D53B66D9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit get fly parasites from vendor such as RinconVitova, spread them around.

    Jere Hitchcock wrote:

     Fly control: We have an Ostrich ranch in Danieslville, GA .  We grind and mix our own feed to give us a mix of feed which is healthy (no hormones etc...) and safe for the animals.  We are striving to produce an "almost" organic meat.  We use soy bean meal for a source of protein.  This material seems to attract flys from several other counties.  I have heard from two sources who were telling me about a plastic bag filled with water attached about 4 feet off the ground which repelled flys.  One person said that he witnessed the phenomena himself and it worked.  The theory told to me was the reflected sunlight from the water was offensive to the fly.  I have tried the bags with no success.  And yes, I have been "snipe hunting" before... Question:  Is there any truth to this matter.  Is there any special type of bag or water used to get the desired results or is this just a "fairy tale" ?Diatomaceous Earth seems to work well but would like some other options.  Thanks for the comments. Jere B. HitchcockJC Ostrich RanchHome of "OBB" our 10 foot tall bird and his 250 big friends
    Danielsville, Georgia
    706.789.2915
    www.jcranch.com
      --------------525AE66E117D12C8D53B66D9-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 16:04:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA28567 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA25385 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:40:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA25296 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.145.213] (dialup-0469.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.145.213]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA97575; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:39:52 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:11:08 +0100 To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU From: kathryn marsh Subject: Bt Cc: AGRISYNERGY@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1430 with all these GE plants around I'm trying to round up the research on Bt itself and possible toxicities etc. We've all been using the stuff for ever and ever but recently I've not only come across suggestions that the spores are not nice for breathing - which I'd expect, breathing fungus spores is not a good idea, but also the suggestion that bt may be an entero toxin. If anyone can remember toxicity studies, maybe way back at the dawn of time, I would be grateful kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 16:48:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA28944 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA02488 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:00:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA02440 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net ([209.178.170.231]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01766; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <377474B8.FD17B19D@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:35:36 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gcr@rhealiving.com CC: "'Jere Hitchcock'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: fly control References: <000001bebf17$fca24ac0$4506fea9@donna> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1431 I have noticed that when I used a fancy fly trap, it did work, but worked too well--all the flies from far around came to see what the attraction was, and tho they did fall into the trap, it was flies, flies, flies all over. Donna Fezler wrote: > What is wrong with Diatomaceous Earth? It not only controls external flies > but controls internal parasites in ostriches and rheas as well. It is > cheap, environmentally safe, doesn't cause liver damage, and is readily > available. The plastic bag theory makes no sense and even if it does work, > it doesn't control as many problems as diatomaceous earth. > > Under no circumstances should commercial fly bait be used around juvenile > ostriches and rheas, it can initiate fading chick syndrome when the chicks > eat the contaminated flies. It is critical to these infants that they be > raised in as near organic environment as possible. > > Donna Fezler > Pioneering Research in Reversing Autoimmune Disorders through Detoxification > and Nutrition while > Leading the World in Rhea Research and Innovation > > http:www.rhealiving.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [SMTP:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] On > Behalf Of Jere Hitchcock > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 8:35 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: fly control > > Fly control: > > We have an Ostrich ranch in Danieslville, GA . We grind and mix our own > feed to give us a mix of feed which is healthy (no hormones etc...) and safe > for the animals. We are striving to produce an "almost" organic meat. We > use soy bean meal for a source of protein. This material seems to attract > flys from several other counties. I have heard from two sources who were > telling me about a plastic bag filled with water attached about 4 feet off > the ground which repelled flys. One person said that he witnessed the > phenomena himself and it worked. The theory told to me was the reflected > sunlight from the water was offensive to the fly. I have tried the bags > with no success. And yes, I have been "snipe hunting" before... Question: > Is there any truth to this matter. Is there any special type of bag or > water used to get the desired results or is this just a "fairy tale" ? > Diatomaceous Earth seems to work well but would like some other options. > Thanks for the comments. > > Jere B. Hitchcock > JC Ostrich Ranch > Home of "OBB" our 10 foot tall bird and his 250 big friends > Danielsville, Georgia > 706.789.2915 > www.jcranch.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 18:10:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA29872 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23401 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:21:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23318 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d12-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.12]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA25639 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:20:54 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: cattle/summer/manure/flies: ain't no dumb questions, was...RE: dumb question? Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 07:24:32 +1000 Message-ID: <000b01bec01a$47dcfbe0$0c3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <004301bebfbf$ec642f40$24f86ed1@dan> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1432 Diane It would be normal to see a rise in insect numbers with the summer. In addition there will be much more opportunities for flies with cow pats lying around the place. If there is a good population of dung beetles, these should be taken underground quickly, if the dung beetles are happy in your soil, and the right dung beetles are established there (there are many species, different gourmet tastes). The other possible issue is overstocking. You have a small number of animals; and this may not be a problem. Overstocking can lead to ground compaction and will leave you with more manure on the surface than otherwise. The nature of your soils, their compactability is a question. When the steers have moved away from a pasture, what do you do with the manure remaining? Running harrows over the ground, or tossing it around with a fork will break it up sooner, have it underground sooner. And if there is any degree of compaction, some deep ripping after the steer rotation may be of value. Although we previously had a breeding cattle herd on another property, we have no large animals on our present property because of our concern to avoid compacting very deep black soils. Neighbours brought in cows to the neighbourhood about three years ago, and overstocked, and we then had not only many more but new varieties of flies. Now the neighbours have gone back to a small herd, and the problem has dropped. Their cows and others from three miles away used to break in because we had decent pasture under the orchard while they had none. I noticed that the performance of dung beetles varied with soil type. Cow pats could sit for quite a while on the light sandy soils near the creek, but on the heavier soils a little further away, in a day the cow pat would be tossing and turning with beetles and in another day or so only crumbs would be left. There may also have been different treatment residues in these droppings, altering insect performance, survival. Dennis >Hi... >We have three Holstein steers who are rotating through 5 paddocks in our >4 1/2 acre irrigated pasture. This is our first time having any >livestock (which you will be able to tell by the next question). For the >past few months they have looked nice and healthy, but I noticed today >that they are attracting a lot of little bugs that seem to light on them >and kind of just hang there, mostly. These look, in size, about halfway >between a housefly and a gnat. Is this common and/or no problem, or is >it a sign of some gross negligence on our part? :) Help please. >Diane >outside Nampa, Idaho > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 20:11:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA01155 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA22402 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA22353 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp118.epix.net [205.238.243.118]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999052801/PL) with ESMTP id TAA15797; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3775674B.65079E59@epix.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:50:36 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kathryn marsh CC: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU, AGRISYNERGY@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Bt References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1433 kathryn marsh wrote: > with all these GE plants around I'm trying to round up the research on Bt > itself and possible toxicities etc. We've all been using the stuff for ever > and ever but recently I've not only come across suggestions that the spores > are not nice for breathing - which I'd expect, breathing fungus spores is > not a good idea, but also the suggestion that bt may be an entero toxin. If > anyone can remember toxicity studies, maybe way back at the dawn of time, I > would be grateful > > kathryn I'd like to know this information as well. A few weeks ago, I asked sanet if anyone could confirm the studies done in France that claimed bt sprays to be potentially dangerous. I got 0 responses. Does this means no one knows, or is it a skeleton in the closet? Also, do bt sprays kill Monarch butterfly larvae? Steve Groff -- "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 23:03:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA03342 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA00497 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:31:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vaughn.ez-net.com (root@vaughn.ez-net.com [205.243.220.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00360 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bigolpc (pm25pc1-m14.ez-net.com [207.67.104.23]) by vaughn.ez-net.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA07001 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:28:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906270228.VAA07001@vaughn.ez-net.com> Reply-To: From: "Elisabeth Faulkner" To: Subject: Fw: Agnet June 26/99 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:40:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1434 Here is a forwarding of a useful daily posting net out of Canada. If you search the archives, there have been quite a few refeerences to Bt and butterflies recently. Elisabeth Faulkner Spruce, Wisconsin emfvri@ez-net.com ---------- : From: Douglas A Powell : To: AGNET-L@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA : Subject: Agnet June 26/99 : Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 7:22 PM : : AGNET JUNE 26, 1999 : : Food, inglorious food; two new books tell you what's wrong with the : genetically engineered foods, and how you can avoid them. : We are what we eat : 30 GE test sites uprooted as more and more people take up the call to : farms!! : Companies struggle to find GM release sites : Italy says consumer at risk without GMO moratorium : Live in a particularly leafy area? It might be the new neighbor. : Merrigan named administrator of USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service : Glickman names Figueroa as deputy under secretary : : : Agnet is produced by researchers at the Agri-Food Risk Management and : Communications Project at the University of Guelph, is edited by Douglas : Powell (dpowell@uoguelph.ca), Sarah Grant (segrant@uoguelph.ca) and Amanda : Whitfield (awhitfie@uoguelph.ca), and is sponsored by the Ontario Ministry : of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs Plants Program at the University of : Guelph, with additional support provided by the U.S. National Pork : Producers, the U.S. National Food Processors Association, Novartis Seeds, : Dairy Farmers of Canada, AGCare (Agricultural Groups Concerned About : Resources and the Environment), Monsanto Canada, Pioneer Hi-Bred Limited : (Canada), the U.S. National Cattlemen's Beef Association, Ontario : Agri-Food Technologies, Novartis Crop Protection Canada, Dairy Farmers of : Ontario, the Rutgers University Food Safety Extension Program, the Crop : Protection Institute, Eastern Region Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, : Ag-West Biotech, Capital Health, the Ontario Soybean Growers Marketing : Board, the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, Food Industry Environmental : Network, Dow AgroSciences, W.G. Thompson & Sons, Crop and Food Research : New Zealand, and the Agricultural Adaptation Council (CanAdapt Program). : : archived at: : http://www.findmail.com/listsaver/agnet-l/ : : : : : To subscribe to Agnet, send mail to: : listserv@listserv.uoguelph.ca : leave subject line blank : in the body of the message type: : subscribe agnet-L firstname lastname : i.e. subscribe agnet-L Doug Powell : : To unsubscribe to Agnet, send mail to: : listserv@listserv.uoguelph.ca : leave subject line blank : in the body of the message type: : signoff agnet-L : : For more information about the Agnet research program, please contact: : Dr. Douglas Powell : dept. of plant agriculture : University of Guelph : Guelph, Ont. : N1G 2W1 : tel: 519-824-4120 x2506 : fax: 519-763-8933 : dpowell@uoguelph.ca : http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/riskcomm : : archived at: : http://www.findmail.com/listsaver/agnet-l/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jun 26 23:11:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA03454 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA03769 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:39:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA03762 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:39:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA17182 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 26 Jun 99 22:37:43 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 26 Jun 99 22:37:18 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:37:18 EST Subject: Re: Bt X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <26BBE22DD4@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1435 Kathryn: I believe that I did see something indicating toxicity to humans, but the conditions of the exposure were not the sort of thing you'd experience in garden or organic farm use. I don't recall the details, unfortunately. The fact that thousands of farmers have used Bt sprays for decades without adverse effect should give you some confidence in the products when used as directed. Nonetheless, it is always prudent to use products like Bt in moderation, and only when essential, rather than as a prophylactic application. The goal should be to wean oneself off of purchased aids, as Bt, rather than design a system that depends intrinsically on them. If used as a matter of routine, the structural difference between Bt and synthetic biocides (e.g. holistic rather than linear approaches to pest mgt) becomes semantic instead of real. Bt, or any biocide approved for use on organic farms, should be an interim measure used to achieve natural self-regulating "controls" on "pest" populations - via other resident organisms. As has been said before, pests are not born but are created by how we manage our crops. If pest control is an ongoing problem, you may wish to analyze how the system is opening up niches for pests to proliferate, and then instead of buying Bt to kill them, close the system niches to deny the pest a place to proliferate. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jun 27 00:13:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA04318 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA06106 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:37:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA06050; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.254.213.15] (1Cust15.tnt29.dfw5.da.uu.net [208.254.213.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07113; Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906270337.UAA07113@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:19:02 -0500 Subject: Re: fence locust posts From: "Lynn Byczynski" To: "Raymond R. Weil" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA06065 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1436 This is Dan Nagengast In Kansas, we use Osage Orange, also known as Hedge trees. They can last 50 years or more, are extremely dense and heavy, and are a bear to handle. I've dug some out that had been in the ground for 30 or more years, and there was no rot. You can use them elsewhere or leave them laying under a tree and they still last forever. ---------- >From: "Raymond R. Weil" >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Cc: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re:fence locust posts >Date: Fri, Jun 25, 1999, 7:24 AM > >Just a note on the use of Black Locust for fence posts. They are indeed very rot >resistant IF the bark is peeled off before using them ( I use a draw knife or >machete blade to do this. It comes off easily in long strips). If the bark is left >on, bark beetles will make them susceptible to rot and they will not last nearly as >long. The left-overs, by the way, make very good fire wood when dry, with a high >heat energy content. > >Happy fencing. > >Ray Weil > > >sanet-mg-digest wrote: > >> sanet-mg-digest Thursday, June 24 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1109 >> >> In this issue: >> >> Re: flea beetles >> FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! >> FW: Re: flea beetles >> Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1108 >> Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber >> Re: electric fencing >> re:Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber >> Re: FW: Flea Beetles - leaf washing >> >> See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:45 -0400 >> From: "Patricia Ruggiero" >> Subject: Re: flea beetles >> >> I'm forwarding three messages from the OG list on combating flea beetles. >> This is #1. >> >> My husband used this concoction on our eggplant seedlings and it did seem to >> discourage the beetles. >> >> Pat >> >> - -----Original Message----- >> From: kathleen feingold [mailto:eric@INTERBOOK.NET] >> Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 5:24 PM >> To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Somebody's munching on my eggplants >> >> Hi Gardeners, >> I'm taking the liberty of translating this for non-Spanish speakers >> as it >> is something that might be interesting or useful (it's something that I've >> never heard of before, on or off this list). >> >> "Treat with 1/2 an onion in ten liters of water, leave it to soak for 24 >> hours, filter and apply directly on the problem." >> >> At 18:21 22-05-99 , Jesus Valero G wrote: >> >Hola Norberto: >> > >> >Trata con 1/2 de cebolla en 10 litros de agua, dejala repozar 24 horas, >> >filra y aplica direactamente sobre el problema. >> > >> >Saludos >> > >> > >> >At 12:45 PM 7/05/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >>Somebody is leaving round little (and some no so little) holes on my >> >>eggplant leaves. Not on the perimeter but in the middle. Any ideas what is >> >>and how to combat it (organically). >> >> >> >>TIA, Norberto >> >> >> >M.C. Jess Valero Garza >> >Campo Experimental Quertaro INIFAP >> >Pasteur sur 414, 2 piso, Col. Valle Alameda >> >C.P. 76040, Quertaro, Qro. >> >Mxico >> > >> >Tel y Fax: (42) 24-02-84 >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:47 -0400 >> From: "Patricia Ruggiero" >> Subject: FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! >> >> Message #3 of 3 >> >> Pat >> >> - -----Original Message----- >> From: Organic Gardening Discussion List [mailto:OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU] >> Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:54 PM >> To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Flea Beetles - Help!! >> >> I don't think the DE will help with flea beetles. Here's what works for us: >> 1. set up a good sprinkler and drench the plants with plain old water 2 x >> per >> day. Or hose them off if you don't have a sprinkler. The flea beetles never >> seem to bother wet leaves. >> 2. Cover susceptible plants as soon as you plant them. We cover eggplant, >> collards, mustards, arugula, tatsoi with remay and SEAL all edges with soil. >> This works wonders with the greens. We had total success with eggplants, >> too. >> But you have to take the covers off for pollination. >> 3. Once the plants are big enough, they aren't bothered much by the flea >> beetles. Even potatoes that looked completely eaten did not seem to have a >> decrease in yield. >> 4. Rotenone would probably work, but I don't use it. >> Leslie Zuck >> Pa Certified Organic >> and >> Common Ground Farm >> >> In a message dated 6/14/99 8:33:02 PM, rbfarr@erols.com wrote: >> >> <> >> My garden is being overrun with flea beetles - not just on my peppers, >> but on EVERYTHING. >> >> Going to get some Diatomaceous Earth today. But wonder what I can do to >> prevent/conquer such outbreaks. >> >> I assume they're living in the grass - I'm on 10 acres of mostly >> pasture, surrounded by 100s more. So, they're probably in the grass. >> But I've never been inundated by one pest - usually, the problems are >> local, and there may be several pests. >> >> But this year - wow! We're in a drought here, so that prob. is also to >> blame. And last winter was mild. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Thanks in advance - >> >> Robert. >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:26:46 -0400 >> From: "Patricia Ruggiero" >> Subject: FW: Re: flea beetles >> >> Message #2 of 3 >> >> Pat >> >> - -----Original Message----- >> From: Tony & Moira Ryan [mailto:theryans@XTRA.CO.NZ] >> Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 1:55 AM >> To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Somebody's munching on my eggplants >> >> kathleen feingold wrote: >> > >> > Hi Gardeners, >> > I'm taking the liberty of translating this for non-Spanish >> speakers as it >> > is something that might be interesting or useful (it's something that I've >> > never heard of before, on or off this list). >> > >> > "Treat with 1/2 an onion in ten liters of water, leave it to soak for 24 >> > hours, filter and apply directly on the problem." >> >> Kathleen >> >> Many thanks, you translators perform a valuable service for us who are >> poor linguists. >> >> No, I haven't come across onion spray, though similar preparations from >> garlic are common enough. If it acts like garlic, I would expect it to >> be mainly an antifeedent, though I suppose it might also act against >> some diseases, especially if the onion used has a high sulphur content. >> >> (apropos of which I understand that the "hottest" onions are those >> produced under rather dry conditions. >> >> Moira >> - -- >> Tony & Moira Ryan >> Wainuiomata, >> New Zealand (astride the "Ring of Fire" in the SW Pacific). >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:55:06 -0700 >> From: William Evans >> Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1108 >> >> Robinia pseudo-acacia---"black locust" , legume, fast growing,invasive, >> very high rot resistance, can last 80 years in ground contact. >> Traditional fence post of old as well as tree in the woodlot.. >> Hard, resinous, dense,strrong, tough to mill, but splitting prolly ok... >> Dont have a source, altho am growing variety "haudenosaunee" which is >> supposed to be very straight growing, Seems pretty vigorous sofar. >> bill evans >> > >> > Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber >> > >> > >> > Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for >> > this type of fencing?> >> > Thanks. > Gerry >> > >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:00:46 -0700 >> From: Gary Matson >> Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber >> >> The ag department at our local junior college has a mold that they use to make >> concrete fence posts. Reinforcing iron is placed inside before pouring the >> concrete, and I suppose bolts or such could be embedded to provide for >> connectivity for wire or wood strips later. For just the corners or breaks in >> slope, they would seem to be pretty practical. I'm sure they didn't think up >> the idea themselves, so the details must be available somewhere 'out there'. >> - -- >> Gary Matson Far Northern California >> http://www.plantstogo.com >> Adapted Plants for Hot Summer Climates >> >> Gerry Cohn wrote: >> >> > I'm trying to build a permanent fence to keep goats in and various >> > predators out. I'm looking to use woven wire, with a hot strand or two on >> > top. All the fencebuiders in my area are insistent on using treated posts, >> > at least for the corners. >> > >> > Does anyone have any alternatives to treated wood that they've used for >> > this type of fencing? >> > >> > Thanks. >> > >> > Gerry Cohn/Jessica LaMontagne >> > 1105 W. Greensboro-Chapel Hill Road >> > Snow Camp, NC 27349 >> > 336-376-8765 >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:17:10 -0400 >> From: Craig Cramer >> Subject: Re: electric fencing >> >> On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:50:35 -0500, "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" >> wrote: >> >> > >> > I would suggest sustainable ag connection web site. Is Craig Cramer >> > reading for web address? >> >> I'm reading, Greg. It's just that I'm about a week behind. I've got links to >> online fence-building resources at: >> >> http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/links/fencebld.htm >> >> It seems like a couple of them had info about hog fencing, but most concern >> themselves primarily with sheep and cattle. >> >> Hope this is helpful. >> >> Craig >> >> Craig Cramer >> mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com >> >> 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming >> http://1000ways.baka.com >> >> Sustainable Farming Connection >> http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:40:48 -0700 >> From: Edna M Weigel >> Subject: re:Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber >> >> When we started building fences, the locals and the experts at >> hardware and feed stores all said we had to use expensive corner posts, >> but I found an old booklet on fencing that described a method which we >> modified to our satisfaction. >> Our fence is supported on metal T posts of various grades. For >> the corners and adjacent to the corners, we made sure we used the heavier >> grade of T post and set them no more than 8 feet between the corner and >> its nearest neighbor. We then took an 8 foot redwood rail (nominally 2x3 >> inches--sold for redwood fences), notched each end to fit the T posts, >> fastened some wire near each end, and secured the rail near the tops of >> the posts. Then we wrapped 9 gage wire from the bottom of the corner >> post diagonally to the top of the next post and back to the bottom at the >> corner. We used a stick (scrap 1x2) to twist the 9 gage wire to pull the >> adjacent post toward the corner. This effectively kept the corner post >> from sagging as we tightened the fence wire. (Sometimes we had to give >> the 9 gage wire a few extra twists as we pulled the fencing tight just to >> keep the corner post vertical.) >> Any rigid post or beam could work in place of the rail for the >> brace. In one case, we ran out of rails and used an ordinary 2x4. They >> are exposed to the weather but are not in contact with the soil so should >> last indefinitely in our arid climate. The rails were satisfactory >> although a few bent shortly after installation, so don't look as nice as >> they might. >> This method also works to brace gate posts, for which we usually >> used 4x4 cedar lumber from Sutherlands or Home Depot. >> Happy fencing. Edna >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> Get the Internet just the way you want it. >> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >> Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:02:24 -0500 >> From: "Pat Elazar" >> Subject: Re: FW: Flea Beetles - leaf washing >> >> Up here, we are mostly bothered by flea beetles during very dry springs. So the >> leaf washing tactic makes some sense to me on brassicas anyways. I'd be real >> careful about any foliage wetting of nightshades tho- it might cause more >> problems with disease than it solves with pests. This season has been cold & >> rainy; cold & dry; hot & dry; AND hot & humid in successive weeks! Some local >> mkt gardeners had to spray early brocoli & cabbage transplants because of flea >> beetles & I saw graduate student's family plots at the university devastated but >> I didn't see any damage at all in my garden. We've been harvesting spinach & >> oriental fry greens since May 22, brocoli since June 14. I'd like to believe >> that the relative absence of pests in an otherwise troublesome year is due to >> the massive amount of soil improvement we've done here... On the other hand, It >> could just be dumb luck... >> >> "Patricia Ruggiero" on 06/24/99 02:26:47 PM >> >> >> >> To: "Sustainable Agriculture" >> >> cc: >> >> >> >> Subject: FW: Flea Beetles - Help!! >> >> >> Message #3 of 3 >> >> Pat >> >> - -----Original Message----- >> From: Organic Gardening Discussion List [mailto:OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU] >> Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 4:54 PM >> To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Flea Beetles - Help!! >> >> I don't think the DE will help with flea beetles. Here's what works for us: >> 1. set up a good sprinkler and drench the plants with plain old water 2 x >> per >> day. Or hose them off if you don't have a sprinkler. The flea beetles never >> seem to bother wet leaves. >> 2. Cover susceptible plants as soon as you plant them. We cover eggplant, >> collards, mustards, arugula, tatsoi with remay and SEAL all edges with soil. >> This works wonders with the greens. We had total success with eggplants, >> too. >> But you have to take the covers off for pollination. >> 3. Once the plants are big enough, they aren't bothered much by the flea >> beetles. Even potatoes that looked completely eaten did not seem to have a >> decrease in yield. >> 4. Rotenone would probably work, but I don't use it. >> Leslie Zuck >> Pa Certified Organic >> and >> Common Ground Farm >> >> In a message dated 6/14/99 8:33:02 PM, rbfarr@erols.com wrote: >> >> <> >> My garden is being overrun with flea beetles - not just on my peppers, >> but on EVERYTHING. >> >> Going to get some Diatomaceous Earth today. But wonder what I can do to >> prevent/conquer such outbreaks. >> >> I assume they're living in the grass - I'm on 10 acres of mostly >> pasture, surrounded by 100s more. So, they're probably in the grass. >> But I've never been inundated by one pest - usually, the problems are >> local, and there may be several pests. >> >> But this year - wow! We're in a drought here, so that prob. is also to >> blame. And last winter was mild. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Thanks in advance - >> >> Robert. >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1109 >> ******************************* >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 28 06:46:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA27116 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA13298 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:06:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA13275 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tweli.aber.ac.uk (tweli.aber.ac.uk [144.124.16.41]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA01180 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pciifa.wir.aber.ac.uk ([144.124.76.78] helo=nhl) by tweli.aber.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10yYJA-0005l4-00; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:06:36 +0100 Message-ID: <009701bec14e$0b551dd0$4e4c7c90@nhl.wir.aber.ac.uk> From: "Nic Lampkin" To: "sanet" , "ecolagric" Subject: Lectureship in Animal Production Science. Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:07:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1437 Please find below details of a recently (re)advertised lectureship. We are still very keen to identify someone with an interest in organic livestock production research and teaching. If you wish to discuss our organic farming work specifically, please reply to me, otherwise use the contacts given below. Apologies for cross-postings. Nic Lampkin. Original message ---------------------------- The University invites applications for a Lectureship in Animal Production Science. Particular preference will be given to applicants with an interest in dairy production science since the successful candidate will be required to teach dairy production. The person appointed will join a strong team of animal scientists led by Prof. Will Haresign, responsible for teaching all aspects of animal science which underpin the agriculture, animal science and equine science courses. Collectively, these courses are responsible for around 60% of the student intake, and some are offered at both degree and HND levels. The Institute places considerable emphasis on research, and the person appointed will be expected to make a significant contribution to the further development of its research profile. Existing areas of research strength within the Animal Sciences group include (a) animal reproduction, (b) animal breeding and genetics, (c) animal nutrition and (d) organic systems of livestock production, all with a particular focus on ruminants. There would, however, be scope to develop new areas of research, subject to attracting external funding to support it. The recent creation of the Aberystwyth Biosciences Centre, a virtual institute linking the Welsh Institute of Rural Studies and the Institute of Biological Sciences within the University with the Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research, provides considerable opportunity for the development of collaborative research utilising the full range of facilities and expertise available within the Centre. Considerable links also exist with ADAS and other organisations, especially in the area of organic livestock production research. The salary scale for Lecturers is 16,655 to 29,048 per annum. It is hoped that the successful applicant will take up appointment on 1 September 1999. Application forms, returnable by 30th July 1999, may be obtained by contacting the Personnel Office, Old College, King Street, Aberystwyth, SY23 2AX, tel: 01970 621832, email: personnel@aber.ac.uk Informal enquiries may be made to Professor Will Haresign, tel: 01970 621644, email: wih@aber.ac.uk Details of the Institute and its courses can be found at http://www.wirs.aber.ac.uk/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 28 07:01:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA27260 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA21122 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:19:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA21093 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:18:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id RAA00129 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:47:29 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id PAA07855 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:36:01 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199906280736.PAA07855@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 28 Jun 99 11:51:18 Subject: Bt: safety issues To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1438 In response to some requests for info about Bt, I enclose below a relatively detailed review of safety issues. Please note that: - the article is about the Bt bacterium, not Bt crops - publication date is 1994; there are probably more recent studies I've removed the footnotes, to shorten the posting. I can also send these to those who want them. Roberto Verzola -------------------------------------- Bacillus thuringiensis (B.t.). Carrie Swadener. Journal of Pesticide Reform, Volume 14, Number 3, Fall 1994. Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides, Eugene, OR. Bacillus thuringiensis (B.t.) by Carrie Swadener Introduction Bacillus thuringiensis (B.t.) is a live microorganism that kills certain insects and is used to kill unwanted insects in forests, agriculture, and urban areas. In a purified form, some of the proteins produced by B.t. are acutely toxic to mammals. However, in their natural form, acute toxicity of commonly-used B.t. varieties is limited to caterpillars, mosquito larvae, and beetle larvae. B.t. is closely related to B. cereus, a bacteria that causes food poisoning and to B. anthracis, the agent of the disease anthrax. Few studies have been conducted on the chronic health effects, carcinogenicity, or mutagenicity of B.t. People exposed to B.t. have complained of respiratory, eye, and skin irritation, and one corneal ulcer has occurred after direct contact with a B.t. formulation. People also suffer from allergies to the "inert" (secret) ingredients. People with compromised immune systems may be particularly susceptible to B.t. Viable B.t. spores are known to exist for up to one year following application. Insect resistance to B.t. has been well documented. Genetic engineering may greatly expand use of B.t., speeding up the development of more resistance. Large-scale applications of B.t. can have far-reaching ecological impacts. B.t. can reduce dramatically the number and variety of moth and butterfly species, which in turn impacts birds and mammals that feed on caterpillars. In addition, a number of beneficial insects are adversely impacted by B.t. B.t. is less toxic to mammals and shows fewer environmental effects than many synthetic insecticides. However, this is no reason to use it indiscriminately. Its environmental and health effects as well as those of all other alternatives must be thoroughly considered before use. B.t. should be used only when necessary, and in the smallest quantities possible. It should always be used as part of a sustainable management program. --------------------------------------- As hazards of conventional, broad acting pesticides are documented, researchers look for pesticides that are are toxic only to the target pest, have less impact on other species, and have fewer environmental hazards. Bacillus thuringiensis (B.t.) insecticides result from this research. However, there is evidence suggesting that B.t. is not as benign as the manufacturers would like us to believe, and that care is warranted in its use. B.t. is a species of bacteria that has insecticidal properties affecting a selective range of insect orders. There are at least 34 subspecies of B.t.1 (also called serotypes or varieties) and probably over 800 strain isolates.2 B.t. was first isolated in 1901 in Japan from diseased silkworm larvae. It was later isolated from Mediterranean flour moths and named Bacillus thuringiensis in 1911.3 It was not until 1958 that B.t. was used commercially in the United States.4 By 1989, B.t. products had captured 90-95 per cent of the biopesticide market.5 Bacillus thuringiensis products available in the United States are comprised of one of five varieties of B.t.: B.t. var. kurstaki and var. morrisoni, which cause disease in moth and butterfly caterpillars; B.t. var. israelensis which causes disease in mosquito and blackfly larvae; B.t. var. aizawai which causes disease in wax moth caterpillars); and B.t. var. tenebrionis, also called var. san diego, which causes disease in beetle larvae.6,7 Other strains of B.t. have been discovered that exhibit pesticidal activity against nematodes, mites, flatworms, and protozoa.5 B.t. products are used to control moth pests in fruits, vegetables, and beehives; blackfly and mosquito pests in ponds and lakes; and several beetle pests in vegetables and shade trees.6 (See Fig. 1,2, and 3 for more details.) Common brand names include Dipel, Foray, Thuricide (all B.t. kurstaki), Vectobac, Mosquito Attack (all B.t. israelensis), and M-Trak (B.t. tenebrionis).6 Mode of Action When conditions for bacterial growth are not optimal B.t., like many bacteria, forms spores. Spores are the dormant stage of the bacterial life cycle, when the organism waits for better growing conditions. Unlike many other bacteria, when B.t. creates spores it also creates a protein crystal. This crystal is the toxic component of B.t.. After the insect ingests B.t., the crystal is dissolved in the insect's alkaline gut. Then the insect's digestive enzymes break down the crystal structure and activate B.t.'s insecticidal component, called the delta-endotoxin. The delta-endotoxin binds to the cells lining the midgut membrane and creates pores in the membrane, upsetting the gut's ion balance. The insect soon stops feeding and starves to death. If the insect is not susceptible to the direct action of the delta-endotoxin, death occurs after B.t. starts vegetative growth inside the insect's gut. The spore germinates after the gut membrane is broken; it then reproduces and makes more spores. This body-wide infection eventually kills the insect.8 Factors Affecting Selectivity One of B.t.'s most desirable characteristic is its selectivity; only certain insects are susceptible to the delta-endotoxin. Scientists have identified at least 29 different crystals and delta-endotoxins.5 Each is effective against specific insects. Each variety of B.t. can produce one or more of these toxins.7 Alkaline (basic; pH greater than 7) solutions activate the delta-endotoxin, and different varieties may require different pHs.9 Certain enzymes must also be present in the insect's gut to break the crystal into its toxic elements.8 In addition, certain cell characteristics in the insect gut encourage binding of the endotoxin and subsequent pore formation.7 The age of the insect is also a factor, the younger larvae being more susceptible than older larvae.8 Health Effects Testing Since B.t. is a live microbial organism, testing for the possible hazards of B.t. is conducted differently that for conventional pesticides. Microbial toxicity is described using pathogenicity (the ability of the microbe to cause disease) and infectivity (the ability of the organism to reproduce within the body.) The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires no testing of B.t. for carcinogenicity, mutagenicity, or chronic toxicity.10 Laboratory Tests of Acute Toxicity Each of the more than 800 strains of Bacillus thuringiensis may exhibit different toxicity to insects, rodents and humans. This fact complicates any discussion about the toxicity of B.t. The following are summaries of the acute toxicity data available for two commonly used commercial varieties of B.t.. Bacillus thuringiensis var. kurstaki (B.t.k.): B.t.k. and commercial products containing B.t.k. generally have low oral acute toxicity to rats. In tests with laboratory animals, researchers did not observe any adverse effects after feeding large doses.11-13 Other types of exposures have some acute effects. Rats who breathed air containing B.t.k. spores experienced respiratory depression,14 and B.t.k. spores injected into rats' veins aggravated preexisting disease.15 Both B.t.k. and Foray 48B are irritating to rabbit skin,16 and Foray 48B is moderately irritating to rabbits' eyes.12 Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis (B.t.i.): In studies assessing B.t.i.'s acute toxicity to mammals, mortality only occurred when B.t.i. was injected into the abdomen or the brain. In one study conducted on rats, 79 percent mortality occurred after a single injection into the brain.17 Effects other than mortality can also occur. For example, in mice injected with a B.t.i. suspension, spleens became enlarged.18 B.t.i. is irritating to both eyes and skin. Injection of both viable and inactivated B.t.i. spores under the skin resulted in abscesses in mice.17 Rabbits' eyes are irritated by B.t.i.18 The irritancy of B.t.i. to eyes depends on the physical characteristics of the formulation; a dry, dusty formulation with smaller particles is less irritating and cleared from the eye more quickly than a clumped formulation with larger particles.17 In a purified form, B.t.i.'s endotoxin is clearly toxic to mammals. When the delta-endotoxin from B.t.i. was injected intravenously into mice, they exhibited rapid paralysis, followed by death within 12 hours. When the same dosage was injected under the skin of suckling mice, death occurred in 2-3 hours. The delta-endotoxin also caused destruction of rat, mouse, sheep, horse, and human red blood cells.19 When a small protein isolated from the endotoxin was administered to mice at sublethal levels, mice suffered from severe hypothermia and their heart beat slowed.20 Acute Toxicity to Humans Bacillus thuringiensis var. kurstaki: There have been few experimental studies assessing the toxicity of B.t.k. to humans. Most information comes from occupational exposures, or from exposures occurring during large-scale B.t.k. programs. One case of B.t.k. infection resulted from a farmer splashing a B.t.k. formulation, Dipel, in his eye. The man developed an ulcer on his cornea from which positive B.t.k. cultures were taken.21 Another man working on a spray program splashed B.t.k. on his face and eyes. He then developed skin irritation, burning, swelling, and redness. B.t.k. was cultured from a sample taken from his eye.22 Ground-spray applicators using Foray 48B reported symptoms of eye, nose, throat, and respiratory irritation. The frequency of their complaints was found to be related to the degree of exposure. Workers with similar preexisting health problems were more likely to report adverse effects from the ground spray.23 A woman exposed to an B.t.k. formulation as a result of drift went to the hospital due to burning, itching and swelling of her face and upper chest. She later exhibited a fever, altered consciousness, and suffered seizures.24 No B.t. was cultured from tissue samples, but her doctor believed that B.t. was the cause of the clinical symptoms.25 Monitoring studies following large-scale B.t. spray programs have shown that exposed people carry B.t. in their tissues. For example, more than 11 percent of nasal swab samples taken from patients surveyed by doctors in Vancouver (Canada) following a gypsy moth spray program were found to contain B.t.k.23 B.t. was also found in cultures taken from patients in Lane County, Oregon following a gypsy moth spray program there. Monitoring studies also show that exposed people report a variety of health problems that they believe to be associated with B.t. exposure.22 For example, during the Vancouver spray program, almost 250 people reported health problems, mostly allergy-like or flu-like symptoms. During a Washington gypsy moth spray program, over 250 people reported health problems and 6 were treated in emergency rooms for allergy or asthma problems.26 Physicians have so far been unable to definitively link B.t. exposure to these health problems.22,23,26 Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis: There has only been one case of documented adverse effects of B.t.i. on humans. This case involved a researcher who accidentally injected himself with a mixture of B.t.i. and another kind of bacteria commonly found on human skin.20 He suffered from a toxic reaction and irritated lymph vessels. When these two bacteria were later injected into rodents the combination was consistently lethal, but each bacteria injected separately caused only slight inflammation.8 Special Concerns about B.t. Toxicity Exotoxins: The earliest tests done regarding B.t.'s toxicity were conducted using B.t. var. thuringiensis, a B.t. strain known to contain a second toxin called beta-exotoxin. The beta-exotoxin is toxic to vertebrates, with an LD50 (median lethal dose; the dose that kills 50 percent of a population of test animals) of 13-18 milligrams per kilogram of body weight (mg/kg) in mice when injected into the abdomen. An oral dose of 200 mg/kg per day killed mice after eight days.20 Beta-exotoxin also causes genetic damage to human blood cells.27 B.t. formulations containing beta-exotoxin have not been used in most countries20 although attempts are currently being made to register beta-exotoxin as an insecticide in the United States.8 Another toxin produced by B.t. is the alpha-exotoxin that is highly acutely toxic to mice.20 Current B.t. production methods are such that alpha- exotoxin is not a "significant component" of B.t. formulations.8 Related Bacteria: B.t. belongs to a small group of closely related Bacillus species, including B. cereus, a bacteria that is an agent of food poisoning, and B. anthracis, the pathogen of the virulent animal disease, anthrax. These three bacteria are so similar it has been theorized that they are all varieties of the same species.28,29 If B. cereus is cultured with B.t. cells, genetic material is transferred to the B. cereus cells that allows B. cereus to produce B.t.'s crystal proteins.28 Transfers of genetic material between B. anthracis and B.t. have also occurred.30 A toxin produced by B. cereus that causes diarrhea in monkeys is also produced by certain strains of B.t.,30 although this toxin is not likely to be present in B.t. spore formulations.28 Human volunteers suffered from nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, colic-like pains, and fever after eating food contaminated with one B.t. strain, B.t. var. galleriae.31 These examples indicate the close relationship between B.t. and disease-causing pathogens. Increased Susceptibility: People with compromised immune systems or preexisting allergies may be particularly susceptible to the effects of B.t. In mice with reduced immune function, the dose required to kill more than 50 percent of the mice when injected was several orders of magnitude smaller than the highest dose tested in normal mice.32 Mice with impaired immune function also showed higher mortality than regular mice when one dose of B.t.i. was injected into the abdominal cavity.33 Although no definite cases have been reported of B.t. infecting humans with compromised immune systems, the Oregon Health Division suggested before a B.t.k. spray program that "individuals with...physician-diagnosed causes of severe immune disorders may consider leaving the area during the actual spraying."34 A memo from Novo Nordisk, the manufacturer of Foray 48B, states that the amount of the spray a person would be exposed to would be too small to develop new allergies. However, "It is possible that someone that already has developed an allergy to one of the components of Foray 48B or has asthma I could be affected by exposure to small quantities of Foray 48B."35 The 1991 Material Safety Data Sheet for Foray 48B states "Repeated exposure via inhalation can result in sensitization and allergic response in hypersensitive individuals."36 Contaminants: In the mid 1980s, several B.t. products were contaminated with other bacteria, including Streptococcus faecium and S. faecalis.37 While B.t. products are routinely monitored for bacterial contaminants,2 the risk of contamination with a disease-causing bacteria is always present.25 Inert Ingredients All B.t. products contain ingredients other than B.t.. These are identified only as "inert" ingredients and are called trade secrets by the manufacturers of the products. The "inert" ingredients are potentially the most toxic components of the formulations.8 For example, during the 1992 Asian gypsy moth spray program in Oregon, a woman who was exposed to Foray 48B had a preexisting allergy to a carbohydrate that was present as an inert ingredient. Within 45 minutes of exposure, the woman suffered from joint pain and neurological symptoms.38 Because "inerts" are called trade secrets, there is little public information about their identity, but the information that is available indicates they could cause health problems. Foray 48B has contained sodium hydroxide, sulfuric acid, phosphoric acid,39 methyl paraben,40 and potassium phosphate,41 as "inerts." While these ingredients make up less than 10 percent of Foray 48B,39 they pose hazards. Sodium hydroxide, more commonly known as lye, causes "severe corrosive damage to the eyes, skin, mucous membranes and digestive system .... Breathing sodium hydroxide dust or mist leads in mild cases to irritation of the mucous membranes of the nose ... and in severe cases to damage of the upper respiratory tract."42 Sulfuric acid and phosphoric acid are both corrosive. Sulfuric acid can cause severe deep skin burns and permanent loss of vision. When inhaled as a mist, sulfuric acid may cause severe bronchial constriction, and bronchitis.43 Phosphoric acid is an irritant to skin and mucous membranes, and its vapors may cause coughing and throat irritation.43 Both methyl paraben and potassium phosphate were once registered by EPA as pesticide active ingredients.44 Sodium sulfite has been identified as an inert ingredient of the B.t.k. formulation Dipel 8AF.45 Up to ten per cent of asthmatics (about one million people in the United States) may react to sulfites, particularly those people who are treated with steroids.42 Symptoms of exposure in those sensitive to sulfites usually involve the respiratory system, and can also include nausea, diarrhea, lowered blood pressure, hives, shock, and loss of consciousness.42 Environmental Fate Very little is known about the natural ecology of B.t. It occurs naturally in many soils. In one study, B.t. was isolated from 70 per cent of soil samples taken from around the world, and was most abundant in samples taken in Asia. More than half of these isolates were undescribed varieties of B.t.46 B.t. has also been isolated from insect bodies, tree leaves and aquatic environments.7 It has even been recovered from paper.47 Soil: B.t. generally persists only a short time in soil. The half life of the insecticidal activity (the time in which half of the insecticidal activity is lost) of the crystal is about 9 days.48 However, small amounts can be quite persistent. In one experiment, B.t. spore numbers declined by one order of magnitude after 2 weeks, but then remained constant for 8 months following application.49 B.t. does not appear to move readily in soil. In one study, two varieties of B.t. were applied in adjacent plots, but did not become cross-contaminated, indicating that B.t. does not move laterally in soil.2,8 Other studies found that B.t. was not recovered past a depth of 6 centimeters after irrigation, and that movement beyond the application plot was less than 10 yards.7,50 Foliage: B.t. deposited on the upper side of leaves (exposed to the sun) may remain effective for only 1-2 days, but B.t. on the underside of leaves (i.e. protected from the sun) may remain active for 7-10 days.2,8 It is possible for it to be significantly more persistent, however. Viable spores of B.t.k. were recovered from white spruce foliage one year after application.51 In one experiment conducted in Japan, B.t. persisted for two years in a citrus orchard and remained toxic to caterpillars.52 Water: B.t.k. has been recovered from rivers and public water distribution systems after an aerial application of Thuricide 16B. Standard water treatment processes are not adequate to destroy B.t.k. spores.53 B.t.i. spores and crystals bind readily to sediments in the water column,54,55 which reduces their efficacy by making them inaccessible to mosquito and blackfly larvae. In one test, B.t.i. was applied to water, then allowed to contact mud particles. Over 99 percent of the B.t.i. spores were found in the mud, rather than in the water, after 45 minutes. The B.t.i. retained viability and toxicity for at least 22 days, killing 90 percent of the mosquito larvae when the mud was stirred and reintroduced to the water column.54 In another experiment, viable cells were recovered from the water for up to 200 days and in the sediment for up to 270 days after application.55 Air: B.t.k. has been found to drift over 3,000 meters downwind during an aerial application. The distance B.t.k. is capable of drifting depends upon the amount and method of application,56 as well as the climatic conditions. B.t. thuringiensis was measured in air for up to 17 days following an application.4 Biotechnology Examples of genetic manipulation and genetic engineering with B.t. include the following:7 * In the agricultural product Foil, the gene for a toxin with activity against beetles was transferred through conjugation (sexual reproduction in bacteria) to a B.t.k. cell that only affected butterflies and moths. The resulting cell showed insecticidal properties against beetles, butterflies, and moths. Since EPA considers the organisms resulting from conjugation to be genetically manipulated rather than genetically engineered, Foil was registered for use in the U.S. in 1990. * Pseudomonas fluorescens cells can be engineered to produce the B.t. delta-endotoxin without production of a spore. The crystal protein remains inside the P. fluorescens cell wall. In the products MVP and M-Trak, the P. fluorescens cell is killed after it produces the crystal protein. When the product is applied, the delta-endotoxin remains protected within the now dead cell wall. In this way, the B.t. delta- endotoxin retains its effectiveness for two to three times longer than other B.t. formulations. MVP and M-Trak were the first genetically engineered products to be registered by EPA, since the transgenic organism was not alive when released into the environment. * B.t.i. used to control mosquito and blackfly larvae that live on the water surface begins to sink, away from the target larvae, within 24 hours. Bacteria that naturally live on the water surface (in the same environment as mosquito or blackfly larvae), have been engineered to produce the B.t.i. crystal proteins. * Over thirty different crops have been engineered to produce the B.t. crystal protein throughout their plant structure. Any pest that feeds on any part of these plants will be exposed to the B.t. delta-endotoxin, and those susceptible to the toxin will be killed. Clearly, the possibilities for the genetic engineering of B.t. delta-endotoxins seem endless. However, researchers know so little about the ecology and genetic stability of B.t., that the potential ecological effects of these transgenic organisms are impossible to predict with certainty. Resistance Scientists once thought that the mode of action of B.t. was complex enough to prevent the development of pest insect resistance. However, time and further research proved this to be untrue. Eight insect species have been studied because of their ability to develop resistance to B.t.57 The Indian meal moth, a pest of grain storage areas, was the first insect to develop resistance to B.t.k.58 in laboratory experiments. Resistance progresses more quickly in laboratory experiments than under field conditions due to higher selection pressure in the laboratory.59 No indications of insect resistance to B.t. were observed in the field, until the development of resistance was observed in the diamondback moth in crops where B.t. had been used repeatedly. Since then, resistance has been observed in the laboratory in the tobacco budworm, the Colorado potato beetle and other insect species.57 The gypsy moth also shows potential for developing B.t. resistance.60 Some insects, such as the diamondback moth and the tobacco budworm, exhibit resistance to multiple B.t. strains.61,62 Development of resistance occurs faster when larger amounts of a pesticide are used, so that use of crop plants genetically-engineered to produce the B.t. toxin could dramatically increase the number of B.t.-resistant insects. B.t.'s Ecological Impacts Some of the most serious concerns about widespread use of B.t. as a pest control technique come from the effects it can have on animals other than the pest targeted for control. All B.t. products can kill organisms other than their intended targets. In turn, the animals that depend on these organisms for food are also impacted. Beneficial insects: Many insects are not pests, and any pest management technique needs to be especially concerned about those that are called beneficials, the insects that feed or prey on pest species. B.t. has impacts on a number of beneficial species. For example, studies of a wasp that is a parasite of the meal moth (Plodia interpunctella) found that treatment with B.t. reduced the number of eggs produced by the parasitic wasp, and the percentage of those eggs that hatched.63 Production and hatchability of eggs of a predatory bug were also decreased.63 On collards, aphid-eating flies in the family Syrphidae were reduced by Dipel treatment.64 Both B.t.tenebrionis and Dipel have caused mortality of predatory spider mites.65 Dipel also has caused mortality of the cinnabar moth, used for the biological control of the weed tansy ragwort.66 Finally, B.t.i. has caused mortality of a moth (Synclita obliteralis) that helps control aquatic weeds in Florida.67 Other insects: Many insects that do not have as directly beneficial importance to agriculture are important in the function and structure of ecosystems. A variety of studies have shown that B.t. applications can disturb insect communities. Research following large-scale B.t. applications to kill gypsy moth larvae in Lane County, Oregon, found that the number of oak-feeding caterpillar species was reduced for three years following spraying, and the number of caterpillars was reduced for two years.68 Similar results were found in a study of caterpillars feeding on tobacco brush following a B.t.k. application to control spruce budworm in Oregon.69 In untreated areas, the number of species was about 30 percent higher, and the number of caterpillars 5 times greater, than in B.t.k.-treated areas two weeks after treatment. The number of caterpillars was still reduced in treated areas the following summer. In Washington, B.t. applications in King and Pierce counties to kill gypsy moths reduced spring moth populations by almost 90 percent.70 In addition, one rare species appeared to have been eradicated from the treatment zone, and moth populations were "heavily impacted in an area more than double that which was actually sprayed" as moths moved into the treatment zone from surrounding areas.70 In West Virginia, applications of Foray 48B reduced the number of caterpillar species and the number of caterpillars. The year following application, the number of moth species and the number of moths were both reduced.71 A recent (1994) study in four different Oregon plant communities found that total weight of caterpillars was reduced between 90 and 95 percent by B.t. treatment; the number of caterpillars was reduced by 80 percent; and the number of caterpillar species was reduced by over 60 percent.72 Aquatic insects are also affected by B.t. treatments. Canadian studies found that certain stream insects (Simulium vittatum and Taeniopteryx nivalis) were killed by applications of Thuricide and Dipel respectively.73,74 Midges (chironomids) have repeatedly been shown to be killed by B.t.i.75-77 Birds: Because many birds feed on the caterpillars and other insects affected by B.t. applications, it is not surprising that impacts of B.t. spraying on birds have been documented. In Lane County, Oregon studies of chickadees following a gypsy moth spray program found that birds nesting in B.t.- treated areas brought fewer caterpillars to their nests than did birds nesting in untreated areas. The birds were able to find other food, so that nesting success was not significantly impacted.78 In New Hampshire, when B.t.- treatment reduced caterpillar abundance, black-throated blue warblers made fewer nesting attempts and also brought fewer caterpillars to their nestlings.79 A Canadian study found that numbers of caterpillars, followed by numbers of two species of warblers and a thrush, were reduced by B.t. treatment. In addition, there were fewer spruce grouse chicks in B.t. treated areas, and the chicks in those areas grew more slowly than chicks in untreated areas.80 There is also some evidence that B.t. can be directly toxic to birds. A study of the effects of application of Dipel to ringneck pheasant eggs found that hatching was only half as successful as hatching of untreated eggs. Because the Dipel was applied with a spreader-sticker compound (Plyac) the decrease in hatching may be a result of the Plyac and not the B.t. product.81 Other animals: Because shrews often feed on caterpillars, impacts from B.t. treatments are likely. A study in northern Ontario (Canada) found that treatment with Dipel changed the structure of the shrew population. Adult males emigrated, so that the proportion of juveniles increased. The juveniles and adult females who did not emigrate shifted from a diet of caterpillars to alternative prey.82 Foray 48B at high concentrations (about 3 percent) is acutely toxic to rainbow trout, probably because the product is highly acidic.83 B.t.i. treatments can also affect other animals. Low concentrations of B.t.i. endotoxins decrease the weight of tadpoles and delay their metamorphosis.84 The B.t.i. formulation Vectobac is acutely toxic to fathead minnows, probably because "inerts" in the product deplete the dissolved oxygen in water.85 The B.t.i. formulation Teknar was acutely toxic to brook trout fry, probably because of xylene used as an "inert" in the product.86 Comparison with synthetic insecticides: Where comparative studies have been done, the ecological impacts of a B.t. treatment are almost always less than those of synthetic insecticides. For example, B.t. treatment of collards caused less of an increase in aphid numbers than did treatment with carbaryl, which killed many aphid predators.64 Vectobac was much less acutely toxic to an estuary fish than other mosquito insecticides including temephos, fenoxycarb, diflubenzuron, and methoprene.87 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 28 11:29:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02356 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:29:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA24509 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:37:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24481 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:41:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Problems unsubscribing or posting? Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:41:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1439 SANet: A common problem encountered with listservs has to do with small changes in your e-mail address. For example, my e-mail address changed FROM san@nalusda.gov TO san@nal.usda.gov (add a . before usda). When this happens, majordomo may not/will not recognize your new address, and you therefore cannot get off of the list. However, messages sent to the old address will be automatically forwarded to the new address, so you would continue to receive messages (and never know there might be a problem). The second most common problem is related: You receive messages but find you cannot post to sanet. Again, majordomo does not recognize your (new) address as a member of the list. You need to have your old address taken off and your new address added to the member list. Usually you cannot do this yourself (see below). Many such changes are being made to internet services, usually altering the e-mail address after the @ sign. Ideally, you are told ahead of time to unsubscribe from lists and resubscribe after the change. IF your e-mail address has changed subtly, and you find you cannot unsubscribe from or post to sanet, please send a message to san@nal.usda.gov listing * the old e-mail address(es) -- I have had people send me 6 or 8 of them! * the new address * whether you are subscribed to the digest or standard format * the action you are requesting. i.e.: * unsubscribe the old and resubscribe the new * unsubscribe only * getting duplicate copies; unsubscribe this one You can get a list of subscribers--and find what address you're subscribed under--by sending a message to: majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu In the body of the message type: who sanet-mg (HARD RETURN HERE) who sanet-mg-digest These are actually two separate commands that will be processed by majordomo IF there is a hard return between them. You could also send them as separate messages. Hope this helps! Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 28 11:30:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02371 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 11:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA27387 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:43:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27328 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26884>; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:49:54 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Mary C Kline" cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Jun28.094954cdt.26884@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:41:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber(caution) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1440 Sorry if I contributed to anyone's confusion (except my own!) between Black Locust (Robinia) & Honey Locust (Gleditsia). Robinia is the species that is used for fence posts, but the Gleditsia is a great species for shading a barn yard or providing some shelter in a pasture & there is a thornless cultivar called Inerma that is pretty hardy. There is of course the bonus of the edible pods that can fill the hungry gap when the hay is finished & the grass isn't green yet... on 06/25/99 09:18:14 PM Please respond to "Mary C Kline" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber(caution) Pat Elazar wrote: > Maybe I mis-understood the thrust of the post cautioning against using Locust > (Gleditsia) as posts because of the thorns? > > Fence posts don't usually sucker (unless you use Willow!) at least in my mud- > perhaps your land is more bio-active than mine. If you were advising to use LIVE > Locust trees as fence posts, then be sure to get the variety Gleditsia > Triacanthos Inerma- the 3rd name literally means unarmed or thornless. > Bill Evans is correct, the Black Locust used for fence posts is Robinia pseudoacacia, not Honey Locust, Gleditsia triacanthos. I have not heard of a thornless variety, although propagators have tried to breed one. I had success controlling the suckers in my fence post lot by hand pruning them once per year, and by mowing to cut the seedlings. I have observed them to be less invasive in plant hardiness zone 5 and north. Has anyone in the upper midwest had the same observation? One comment on the use of Redwood in fencing - it is not sustainable. Mary To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 28 19:18:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07761 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA26786 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:34:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA26776 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.144.231] (dialup-0231.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.144.231]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA43522 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:33:41 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <26BBE22DD4@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:24:36 +0100 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: Bt Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1441 >Nonetheless, it is always prudent to use products like Bt in >moderation, and only when essential, rather than as a prophylactic >application. >Dr. E. Ann Clark absolutely Ann, but when I argued this position in a room full of the men from the genetic engineers this week I was laughed out of court. I'll dig out the citations I have and post them later kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jun 28 22:51:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10773 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA23530 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:00:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA23520 for ; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:00:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Cntraryfmr@aol.com Received: from Cntraryfmr@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 7BTUa09220 (3871); Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:59:20 EDT Subject: Jacob sheep LOst horn!!!!!! To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Holistic-Goats@onelist.com, DairyGoats@onelist.com, CartGoats-owner@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 216 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1442 Hello all, I came home from work this evening and my 3 1/2 month old jacob sheep wethers horn was gone. His head had blood on it but it wasn't actually bleeding. He has 2 other horns left but I don't really know what I should do about this. Any pointers. Does this type of thing usually require a trip to the vet or am I overreacting? I don't mind taking him but my vet already thinks I am a hypochrondriac with my goats so now Jacob will be next. Post to my email or to the list thanks . I won't be able to take him to the vet anyway til the AM so is there anything I should try to do tonight. He doesn't seem bothered by it unless you touch it. Thanks Marcus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 01:40:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA13091 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA27600 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:33:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA27578 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.95] (dial95.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.95]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA04593; Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:32:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: colibri@west.net, , From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: anti-hail radar systems? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1443 Can anybody verify anti-hail missiles? I can believe that radar can detect hailstorms, but are there really anti-hail missiles? My anti-hoax radar is beeping... Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 02:19:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA13408 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 02:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA16149 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:23:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net [207.41.144.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA16053 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kenn001b-226.cybertours.com (kenn001b-226.cybertours.com [208.161.21.226]) by gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with SMTP id BAA25446 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199906290523.BAA25446@gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net> X-Sender: stevem@pop.nh.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: stevem@nh.ultranet.com (Stephen Maxam) Subject: Re: Bt Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1444 >As has been said before, pests are not born but are created by how we >manage our crops. If pest control is an ongoing problem, you may >wish to analyze how the system is opening up niches for pests to >proliferate, and then instead of buying Bt to kill them, close the >system niches to deny the pest a place to proliferate. Ann Welp, my sweet corn system opens up its niches when the silk appears. I have'nt used anything yet, no pyrethrum or Bt, although I have both, the Bt being one for corn borers. Delaying harvest a little seems to result in more worms. I am using partially organic methods, i.e. a little chemical fertilizer, but lots of organic matter application, and no pesticides or herbicides. So, the question I have is this: Outside of improving the organic environment, are there any "tricks" or whatever to stop the worms? Please note that I have a large garden from which I sell occasionally, and not lots of acres. Thanks, Stephen Maxam To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 08:25:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16050 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA17629 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:18:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA17578 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-47ppp99.epix.net [209.74.47.99]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999052801/PL) with ESMTP id HAA28724; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3778AD57.5A50953C@epix.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:26:15 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet CC: "veg-prod@reeusda.gov" , "SOILQUALITY@LIST.UVM.EDU" Subject: Steve Groff's 6th annual Field Day, July 28th Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1445 Contact: Steve Groff (717) 284-5152, sgroff@epix.net PRESS RELEASE: "Maximizing for the New Millennium", Field Day (Holtwood, PA) People with an invested interest in agriculture will once again converge at Cedar Meadow Farm on July 28th, 10 AM. to 3 P.M. for Steve Groff's 6th annual Field Day. Again this year, the event will be held in conjunction with the Lancaster County Conservation Districts annual Expo, and will be sponsored by the Pennsylvania Association of Sustainable Agriculture (PASA), USDA/SARE, and local ag businesses. Steve's efforts have not gone unnoticed as he continues to be recognized as a leader in soil conservation, environmental responsibility, and long term agriculture sustainability. In January, he was named "1998 National No-Till Innovator of the Year", and in April, a prime time PBS mini-series, "Journey to Planet Earth", featured Cedar Meadow Farm along with farms from 3 other continents. "Farmers need to be innovative, but yet practical, and they need to turn a profit," Steve says. "I hope this opportunity will help farmers 'Maximize for the New Millennium,' in a way that positively impacts their bottom line while respecting the environment". The 6th annual Field Day will feature a new format for 1999. Several "learning stations" will be ongoing through out the day. Topics are: planters, irrigation, soil quality, farm use of computers, and geographic information systems (GIS). Also new this year will be a soil pit allowing people to view the effects this system has below the soil surface. Dr. Ray Weil and Joel Gruver will again fascinate the crowd with their enthusiastic knowledge of soil structure. At noon, Dan Towery, Natural Resources Specialist from the Conservation Technology Information Center in West Lafayette, Indiana, will give a national and international perspective on soil conservation trends. Jill Auburn, National Director of USDA's SARE Program, will share how farmers can apply for grants to test new sustainable practices. Steve Groff is currently utilizing funds from a SARE grant to observe the economic and environmental benefits of no-till processing tomatoes Children won't want to miss an adventure with locally renowned naturalist Chotty Sprenkle, as she takes them on a stream study and soil scavenger hunt. The all day event will feature ways to practically increase profits, save soil, and reduce pesticides in both agronomic and vegetable crops, and provide an opportunity to see first-hand the unique cropping strategies and proven soil conservation methods Steve uses. His website, www.cedarmeadowfarm.com, profiles the farm, gives additional information for the Field Day, and provides details of his video, No-Till Vegetables, A Sustainable Way to Increase Profits, Save Soil, and Reduce Pesticides. Registration will be upon arrival at the farm and door prizes will be given away throughout the day. Plenty of great food will be available to purchase. Directions: From the intersection of 272 and 372 (south of Lancaster), take 372 west 4.5 miles to Hilldale Rd. Turn right. Travel 1.5 miles to Cedar Meadow Farm -on the right. Phone: (717) 284-5152 e-mail: sgroff@epix.net -- July 28th, Field Day, "Maximizing for the New Millennium" check website for details "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 08:42:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16212 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA23660 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:40:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA23633 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:39:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-47ppp99.epix.net [209.74.47.99]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999052801/PL) with ESMTP id HAA00339; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3778B25B.39080173@epix.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:47:39 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet CC: "veg-prod@reeusda.gov" , "SOILQUALITY@LIST.UVM.EDU" Subject: Steve Groff's 6th annual Field Day (Additional info) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1446 Equipment demonstratons will be ongoing every hour as well. The no-till vegetable transplanter, Buffalo rolling stalk chopper, high residue manure injection, Aeroway, and other equipment will be in action. Field plots for observation are: no-till pumpkins, food grade soybean variety trial (Rodale Institute), 11 varieties of fresh market tomatoes, and no-tilled narrow plastic. --July 28th, Field Day, "Maximizing for the New Millennium" check website for details "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 09:45:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17187 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA19617 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:39:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19571 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA13675; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:38:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-248.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.248) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013658; Tue Jun 29 07:38:02 1999 Message-ID: <00d001bec22b$61274b60$24fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Stephen Maxam" Subject: corn Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:31:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1447 Steve wrote the message below, but I am very interested in the answer as well. We are growing a sweet corn variety called Tuxedo ordered from Fedco. It has a naturally tight husk which help deter the worms, supposedly they can't get in. I have heard an application of mineral oil helps, but I am unclear as to how to apply. I believe its just a bit on the tassles. I had a goofy idea the other day, would be to time consuming to do the a whole field but a little plot might work. Goofy idea: It the tight husk is supposed to keep out the worms what if you applied a rubber band or some sort of tie around the tassle end would that keep them out? We have the Bt for corn and will probably use it, but I suppose a worm or two will still slither in. I told my husband I have no problem telling the CSA members this is organic corn, break off the worm cook and enjoy a chemical free ear. Or I could do what I did last year (but I had way less members) husk corn break off worm put corn in bag looking beautiful :). Beth >Welp, my sweet corn system opens up its niches when the silk appears. >I have'nt used anything yet, no pyrethrum or Bt, although I have both, the >Bt being one for corn borers. >Delaying harvest a little seems to result in more worms. >I am using partially organic methods, i.e. a little chemical fertilizer, but >lots of organic matter application, and no pesticides or herbicides. >So, the question I have is this: >Outside of improving the organic environment, are there any "tricks" or >whatever to stop the worms? >Please note that I have a large garden from which I sell occasionally, and >not lots of acres. >Thanks, >Stephen Maxam > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 10:18:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17775 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04255 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:13:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web607.mail.yahoo.com (web607.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.171]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA04229 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990629131446.1917.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web607.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 06:14:46 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 06:14:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Fwd: Fw: Rural Update May/June To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1448 An FYI... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Walter > To: Rural Update > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 6:35 PM > Subject: Rural Update May/June > > > > ================= > > THE RURAL UPDATE > > May/June, 1999 > > ================= > > > > > > Community economic development news and resources > > for small towns and rural areas. > > > > Aspen Institute Rural Economic Policy Program > > Tim Walter, Editor > > Http://www.aspeninst.org/rural/updates/rujun99.html > > > > > > > > ======= IMPORTANT: NEW ADDRESS ======= > > > > We're in new offices! Please make sure you're sending > your > > newsletters and publications to our new address: > > > > Rural Economic Policy Program > > The Aspen Institute > > One Dupont Circle, NW, Suite 700 > > Washington DC 20036 > > (202) 736-5804 main number > > (202) 293-0525 new fax > > > > > > > > ===== CONTENTS ====== > > > > > > [1] Quote to Begin > > [2] Resources of Note > > [3] Calendar > > [4] Funding > > [5] Help Wanted > > [6] On the Lighter Side > > [7] Contact and Subscribing Info > > > > > > ===== [1] Quote to Open ===== > > > > > > Best selling writer Sharon McCrumb, author of a mystery > > series set in Appalachia, explaining her work: "The > more I > > traveled... coast to coast and into other countries, > the > more > > I kept meeting people who thought "Deliverance" was a > > documentary. And I thought if there's one thing that I > can > > do with serious work, let me portray the culture that I > come > > from in a way to make people understand it, to tell > them > that > > we have a really beautiful culture with a fine heritage > to > be > > proud of... And the only way I can reach a large > enough > > number of people to make this statement is to write > books > > people are willing to read. (Quote from "Tell it on > the > > Mountain: Appalachian Women Writers," fifteen > interviews > in a > > radio series by Appalshop. Contact WMMT/Appalshop, 306 > > Madison St., Whitesburg KY 41858, 606-633-0108, > 633-1009 > > fax.) > > > > > > ======= [2] Resources of Note ======= > > > > > > "OUT OF THE WOODS" > > While we are not usually fans of short stories, these > were > > terrific; author Chris Offutt is a new favorite. "Out > of > the > > Woods" is a collection of stories about rural folk who > have > > moved away from their roots and how they deal with the > return > > to those relationships. The writing is spare but > without > > pretense. While the situations are a bit unusual in > order > to > > create a dramatic effect (e.g. a levee sabotaged during > a > > flood), the characters are not cartoonish or > stereotypes. > > Simon and Schuster, 1999. (-TW-) > > > > > > THE TUPELO STORY -- NEWLY PUBLISHED > > "HAND IN HAND: COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN > TUPELO" > > Tupelo, Mississippi has been hailed as a "miracle" by > > National Public Radio. There may be no other town in > the > > U.S., seemingly ordinary in so many ways, that has gone > so > > far with such modest means. In the end, Tupelo's > success > is > > rooted in what even the most beaten-down, dispirited > > community has -- its own people. This story presents > the > tie > > between community development and economic development, > along > > with a healthy dose of courageous leadership and > innovative > > thinking. A variety of players and issues are > addressed > in > > the book, including community development corporations, > high > > technology, community organizing, local endowments, > > education, business associations, media, and leadership > > development. "Hand In Hand: Community and Economic > > Development in Tupelo" by Vaughn Grisham and Rob > Gurwitt, > > 1999; 76pp; $10, includes shipping; prepay using check > or > > credit card (Visa, MC); Aspen Institute Publications, > PO > Box > > 222, Queenstown, MD 21658, > http://www.aspeninst.org/rural; > > 410-827-9174 fax; 202-736-5804 tel. Orders from outside > U.S. > > should use credit card and actual postage will be added > to > > your order. (-RD-) > > > > > > RURAL WELFARE REFORM INITIATIVE > > A national research group is collecting cases and > > disseminating lessons on rural welfare reform > implementation. > > Spurred on by the realization that labor force > participation > > has increased in urban areas but less (if at all) in > rural > > areas, the Rural Research Policy Institute (a network > of > > academics from around the US) has just published a > white > > paper entitled "Welfare Reform in Rural America: An > Overview > > Assessment." It is available for free on the web at > > http://www.rupri.org/, or contact Sarah Dewees, > > sdewees@rupri.org or (573) 882-3024. To contribute > stories > > about what is happening in your community, use the > RUPRI > web > > site or contact Julie N. Zimmerman, 606-257-7583, > 606-257- > > 4354 fax, jzimm@pop.uky.edu. > > > > > > "WORLDS APART: WHY POVERTY PERSISTS IN RURAL AMERICA" > > A new book by Cynthia Duncan, who asserts that a strong > civil > > culture is the primary solution for addressing poverty. > This > > book is an intensive study of three communities, two > bitterly > > divided by race and class, and a third that is much > more > > successful in mobilizing its middle class citizens for > the > > benefit of all residents. In her estimation, the > importance > > of the school system is paramount. Duncan is a > sociologist > > and her writing emphasizes stories and quotes from > actual > > residents, making this an accessible read. Yale > University > > Press, 1999, $27.50, 235pp. > > > > > > "AMERICAN HOLLOW" -- NEW FILM > > Conference planners take note. This new documentary > film > > follows an extended family living in hillbilly country. > They > > scrape by, held to this place in part by a powerful > sense > of > > belonging to the land and kin. The film will air on > cable > > network HBO in the fall of 1999 as part of the "America > > Undercover" series about life among hidden, underclass > > families. After that airing, filmmaker Rory Kennedy > will > be > > available to present her movie and the story of making > it > to > > groups around the country. The film has premiered in > New > > York, Washington and the Sundance film festival. > Viewers > we > > interviewed found that once they became familiar with > movie's > > characters, the movie lost a "documentary" feel and the > story > > became engrossing. There are no colossal disasters or > massive > > civil rights violations, but there are engaging story > lines > > of love and loss. Even if you don't work in > Appalachia, > this > > film could be a good conversation starter in a process > of > > working with groups of disenfranchised people, helping > them > > voice their own trials and pride by drawing parallels > to > the > > families in the movie. Moxie Firecracker, Inc., 180 > Varick > > St., Suite 1302, NY NY 10014. (-TW-) > > > > > > RURAL COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION > > PUBLICITY MATERIALS > > The "Stand Up for Rural America" campaign has produced > a > fine > > set of materials describing the work of local community > > development corporations, primarily responsible for low > > income housing work, but increasingly business and > social > > services. A directory of 1,000 organizations is > accompanied > > by a colorful, 28-page report "Unharvested Bounty: > Reaping > > the Potential of Rural Community Development." Also > > available is an accompanying video produced by > Appalshop > > which follows the work of four community development > > corporations; it's a delightful piece that will make > you > > smile; use it with funders or community groups to set > the > > stage for a concrete discussion about the specifics of > how > a > > CDC operates. Contact Rural LISC at (202) 739-0886, > 1825 > K > > St. NW, #1100, Washington DC 20006; > standup@liscnet.org. > > > > > > LOW INCOME HOUSING GUIDE > > The "1999 Advocate's Resource Guide" consists of > chapters > for > > every major housing program, from AIDS Housing to > Youthbuild, > > plus an extensive resource directory with contact > information > > for more than 80 agencies and organizations around the > > country. Produced by the National Low Income Housing > > Coalition, free on the web at > http://www.nlihc.org/advocates/ > > or $25 in print; info@nlihc.org; 1012 14th St NW, > Suite > 610, > > Washington, D.C. 20005, 202/662-1530; Fax 202/393-1973. > > > > > > "NATIVE NETWORKING: TELECOMMUNICATIONS & INFORMATION > > TECHNOLOGY IN INDIAN COUNTRY" > > Recent report by the Benton Foundation focuses on > meshing > > policies for tribal sovereignty with federal and state > > telecom regulations. Also includes a list of some > projects > > in Indian country and resource organizations. > Available > on- > > line at http://www.benton.org/ or call 1-877-223-6866. > > > > > > WE'RE SUCKERS FOR POST OFFICES > > The National Trust for Historic Preservation has jumped > on > > the fight to get the US Postal Service to slow down its > drive > > to relocate post offices away from Main Street business > > districts. Yes, even small towns suffer from sprawl. > > Representative Earl Blumenauer (OR) and Senators Jim > Jeffords > > (VT) and Max Baucus (MT) are currently pushing > legislation. > > To find out more, contact your congressional office or > the > > NTHP at 202-588-6000; http://www.nationaltrust.org. > > > > > > ======= [3] Calendar Additions ======= > > > > > > EMPOWERING COMMUNITIES FOR THE FUTURE > > and CREATING DYNAMIC COMMUNITIES > > Aug. 1-6; Excelsior Springs, MO > > MU Direct - UMC, 103 Whitten Hall, Columbia, MO 65211 > > (800)545-2604; MUdirect@missouri.edu > > > > > > GROWING SMARTER IN RURAL AMERICA > > and REVOLVING LOAN FUND ADMINISTRATION > > National Association of Development Organizations > > Annual Training Gathering > > Aug 25-27 and 29-31; New Orleans, LA (prepare to > sweat!) > > NADO, 202-624-7806; http://www.nado.org > > > > > > EXPLORING NORTH ATLANTIC CONNECTIONS > > Exploring the connections between communities and > countries > > of the North Atlantic; arts, culture, economy. > > Sept 17-19; Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, Canada > > The North Atlantic Institute, John Othick, The Queen's > > University, jothick@uccb.ns.ca, 902-563-1234. > > > > > > RURAL EDUCATION: MORE PRECIOUS THAN GOLD > > Sept 18-21, Kalgoorlie, WA, Australia > > Society for the Provision of Education in Rural > Australia > > Rosa Lincoln, 08 9021 1344, fax 08 9091 2719, or Sheila > King, > > king@usq.edu.au. > > > > > > NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF TOWNS AND TOWNSHIPS > > NATIONAL CENTER FOR SMALL COMMUNITIES > > Annual Education Conference > > Sept 8-10; Washington DC > > NATAT, (202) 624-3550; http://www.natat.org > > > > > > NEW DEVELOPMENT FINANCE > > Third Annual Seminar > > Sept 27 - Oct 4; Frankfurt, Germany > > Organizers: Ohio St. U. Rural Finance Program and U. of > > Frankfurt; Katja Roehder, roehder@em.uni-frankfurt.de > > > http://www-agecon.ag.ohio-state.edu/ruralfinance/events.htm > > > > > > PARTNERS FOR PROSPERITY: CREATING COMMUNITY WEALTH > > Sept 29 - Oct 1; Ontario, Canada > > Ontario Municipal Social Services Association, (905) > 629- > > 3115, (905) 629-1633 fax, omssa@netcom.ca, > > http://www.lefca.com/partners_for_prosperity > > > > > > BUILDING COMMUNITIES FROM THE GRASSROOTS > > Introduces participants to basic community development > > concepts & methods. > > Oct. 3-8; Excelsior Springs, MO > > MU Direct - UMC, 103 Whitten Hall, Columbia, MO 65211 > > (800)545-2604; Mudirect@missouri.edu > > > > > > NATIONAL RURAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS CONFERENCE > > RURALTELECON '99 > > October 10 - 13, 1999; Aspen, Colorado > > Hosted by Colorado Advanced Technology Institute and > others > > http://ruraltelecon.org > > > > > > SECOND NATIONAL SMALL FARM CONFERENCE > > Oct 12-15; St. Louis, Missouri. > > www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc debodaghe@reeusda.gov > > http://www.reeusda.gov/smallfarm > > > > > > GENDER AND RURAL TRANSFORMATIONS IN EUROPE: > > PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE PROSPECTS > > 14-17 October 1999, Wageningen, The Netherlands > > (Also incorporates the World Rural Women's Day, Oct > 15th) > > Women and gender issues in agriculture and rural > development > > across Europe, including eastern Europe. > > http://www.sls.wau.nl/crds/congr_gs.htm > > > > > > TELEPOWER '99 > > Oct 18-19; Manhattan, KS > > Focus on rural telecom, emphasis on KS and midwest; > previous > > proceedings are on the web. Sponsor is one of the most > > experienced rural telecom groups in the US: Docking > > Institute, Fort Hays State University, 600 Park St., > Hays > KS > > 67601, tvallin@tiger.fhsu > > http://www.fhsu.edu/docking/telepower/tele99.htm > > > > > > 1999 NATIONAL PRESERVATION CONFERENCE > > Oct 19-24; Washington, DC > > National Trust for Historic Preservation > > http://www.nthp.org; 202-588-6444 > > > > > > SUSTAINING RURAL ENVIRONMENTS > > Issues in Globalization, Migration and Tourism > > Oct 20-23; Flagstaff, AZ > > http://www.geog.nau.edu/igust/rural/ > > > > > > NY STATE RURAL HOUSING COALITION > > 20th Anniversary Conference > > Oct 31 - Nov 2; Saratoga, NY > > 879 Madison Ave, Albany NY 12208, 518-458-8696 > > > > > > COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT VENTURE CAPITAL ALLIANCE > > Annual Conference > > Dec 14-15; Seattle, WA > > email cdvca@cdvca.org; 915 Broadway, NY NY 10010 > > > > > > NATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE > > Annual Assembly > > February 25-29th, 2000; Location TBA > > Amy Little, P.O. Box 396, Pine Bush, NY 12566 > > 914-744-8448; Fax: 914-744-8477, > campaign@magiccarpet.com > > > > > > RURAL DIMENSIONS OF WELFARE REFORM > > Research conference on poverty, welfare and food > assistance. > > May 4-5, 2000; Washington, D.C. > > povcen@nwu.edu, Rural Dimensions Conference, Joint > Center > for > > Poverty Research, Northwestern University, 2046 > Sheridan > Road > > Evanston, IL 60208 > > > > > > > > ========= [4] Funding ========= > > > > > > AWARDS FOR RURAL TELECOM COMMUNITY BUILDING > > (Note the fast approaching deadline, but relatively > easy > > application.) A new award program will give five, > $10,000 > > prizes to honor programs that have used technology for > rural > > community-building. Projects must come from a > public-private > > partnership in towns of less than 10,000. The awards > are > > funded by AOL and the program is coordinated by the > National > > Center for Small Communities. Applications must be > > postmarked by July 7th, 1999 and winners will be > announced > at > > the RuralTelecon gathering in October. The application > can > > be found online at http://www.natat.org/ncsc/aol.htm or > > http://206.168.125.58/aolawards.asp. > > > > > > NEW RURAL HEALTH NETWORK ASSISTANCE PROGRAM > > With the goal of improving the quality of and access to > care > > in rural areas, the Robert Wood Johnson foundation's > new > > "Networking for Rural Health" program will provide > rural > > health networks with consultations designed to help > local > > managers assess network strengths, weaknesses and > needs. > > Assistance will also fund outside consulting expertise > in > the > > areas of finance and clinical work. Applications are > due > > Sept 15, 1999 and February 15, 2000. This program is > being > > administered by the Alpha Center in Washington, DC; > contact > > Katherine Brown at 202-296-1818 or preferably their web > site > > at http://www.ac.org. > > > > > > ========= [5] Help Wanted ========= > > > > > > RURAL COMMUNITY COLLEGE INITIATIVE, > > AND TWO OTHER POSITIONS; CHAPEL HILL, NC > > MDC, Inc., is seeking three staff associates: 1) Staff > > Associate for the Rural Community College Initiative, > helping > > manage a technical assistance pool and facilitating > > communications and learning among a national group of > > colleges which are becoming leaders in local > development. > 2) > > Staff Associate - Researcher, producing MDC's > impressive > > "State of the South" report as well as other > communications > > projects; 3) Staff Associate, capacity building and > > leadership program, managing a training initiative for > local > > community leaders. (MDC, Inc., is a first-rate group; > it > > conducts research and manages demonstration projects in > > workforce and community development, primarily in the > > southern U.S.-TW-) For full descriptions, contact > Tracy > > Constantine MDC, Inc., Post Office Box 17268 Chapel > Hill, > NC > > 27516-7268. http://www.mdcinc.org. > > > > > > CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, ITHACA, NY > > Alternatives Federal Credit Union is an innovative, $30 > > million, community development lender in rural NY > seeking > a > > CFO to oversee accounting and computer operations. For > an > > application and complete job description, please send > letter > > of interest and resume to Sharon Kinnan, Alternatives > Federal > > Credit Union, 301 West State Street, Ithaca, NY 14850. > > Requests may be emailed to > humanresources@alternatives.org. > > Completed applications should be received at > Alternatives > by > > July 16, 1999. > > > > > > RECYCLING PROGRAM, ALBANY, OH > > Live and work in the beautiful hills of southeast Ohio. > Non- > > profit reuse center (www.eurekanet.com/~reuse) near > Athens, > > Ohio, is seeking an executive director to head a > program > that > > protects the environment and creates jobs by salvaging, > > restoring and selling discarded materials. Competitive > salary > > plus benefits. Send resume by July 20 to Search > Committee, > > ReUse Industries, 74815 U.S. Highway 50, Albany, OH > 45710. > > > > > > ======= [6] On the Lighter Side ======= > > > > > > THE LITTLE HOUSE > > Rural Update reader and outhouse owner John Christenson > has > > offered us a list he has compiled of books about > outhouses. > > Topping his list is Chic Sale's book "The Specialist." > Set > in > > rural America early in the 20th century, it is the > transcript > > of an old comedy monologue by the 'Champion Privy > Builder > of > > Sanganon County." It's been translated into nine > languages > > and has sold over 2.5 million copies. Word is that its > a > > bargain at $6 through on-line bookstores or the > publisher > at > > dbsalecons@juno.com. If you'd like the rest of John's > > reading recommendations, give him a shout out back at > > jchris@tds.lib.mn.us. > > > > > > ==== [7] Contact and Subscribing Info ==== > > > > > > The Rural Update is delivered by e-mail at no charge. > > To subscribe, send a message in the following format to > > be added automatically to our distribution list. > > Address the message to ruralupdate@lists.aspeninst.org > > with the word "subscribe" (no quotes) in the subject > > field, and in the body, place your name, organization, > > address, phone, fax and web site. Within a few > minutes, > > you will receive an automated reply confirming your > > request. If you don't receive confirmation, or have > > other questions, please contact one of our staff > > directly. If you don't have e-mail, please find a > friend > > who will subscribe for you. > > > > Archives of the Update are posted on our Web site at > > http://www.aspeninst.org/rural and on HandsNet at > > www.handsnet.org. > > > > Material in the Update can be redistributed in your > > organization's mailings or newsletters with the > > following citation: "Aspen Institute Rural Update, > > http://www.aspeninst.org/rural; > > ruralupdate@lists.aspeninst.org." If you want to > > redistribute the newsletter in its entirety on a > regular > > basis, please notify us first so we can keep track of > > our readership. > > > > We welcome input, feedback, and suggested material for > > inclusion in the newsletter. Contact Tim Walter, > Senior > > Editor, timothy@aspeninst.org. > > > > NOTE OUR NEW ADDRESS: > > Aspen Institute Rural Economic Policy Program > > One Dupont Circle, NW, Suite 700 > > Washington, DC 20036 > > (202) 736-5834 > > (202) 293-0525 (new fax) > > http://www.aspeninst.org/rural > > > > Copyright 1999, The Aspen Institute. > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 10:48:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18381 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA10554 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:23:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10440 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18697; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001401bec232$0ac6b2e0$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: , "Stephen Maxam" Subject: Re: Bt Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:19:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1449 Stephen: There is a lot of work currently on "biointensive IPM" for sweet corn. Ruth Hazzard, of the University of Massachusetts, has several publications on using Bt for European corn borers and a mixture of corn oil and Bt, applied directly to the silks, for corn earworm. She presented this work at a Farmer/Scientist conference I organized last December, and I am currently working on the proceedings of this conference (to appear in print in the fall). If you contact me directly off SANET, I'll send you a copy of the session on corn, or I'll send you the citations of Ruth's publications, and you can get them directly from her. Kim Stoner To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 10:52:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18423 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14354 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:33:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14342 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA22095; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001901bec233$34f5d7c0$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "Dan Hook" , Subject: Re: corn Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:27:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1450 Beth: Since there seems to be a lot of interest in this topic, here are some references to Ruth Hazzard's work with oil and Bt: Hazzard, R. Biointensive Insect Management in Sweet Corn. Agroecology Program.Vegetable and Small Fruit Program. Pub # VegSF99-1. Hazzard, R. 1997. Using Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) Products for European Corn Borer Control in Sweet Corn. Pub. #C-220. Both are available on request from Ruth Hazzard, Dept. of Entomology - West, Univ. of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003. Here is the relevant paragraph from the proceedings of the conference, quoted directly from Ruth: "Through replicated experiments at the UMass Research Farm, Hampshire College Farm, and at Applefield Farm in Stow, Mass., we determined the timing and rate of application, type of oil, and ratio of Bt to oil to obtain the best control with optimal kernel development. We found that 3-5 ml/ear of corn oil, applied when full-grown silk begins to wilt, with a ratio of 20 parts oil to 1 part Bt product, gives optimal control. Oil barrier treatments consistently yielded 2-3 times more marketable ears than untreated controls, with results ranging from 65% to 100% undamaged ears compared to 18 % to 87.5% clean in controls. Commercially acceptable levels of control (90-100% undamaged ears) were achieved in experiments where two foliar applications of Bt were used at the tassel stage, in combination with the direct-silk oil treatment. " Kim Stoner -----Original Message----- From: Dan Hook To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu ; Stephen Maxam Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 8:59 AM Subject: corn > >Steve wrote the message below, but I am very interested in the answer as >well. We are growing a sweet corn variety called Tuxedo ordered from Fedco. >It has a naturally tight husk which help deter the worms, supposedly they >can't get in. I have heard an application of mineral oil helps, but I am >unclear as to how to apply. I believe its just a bit on the tassles. I had >a goofy idea the other day, would be to time consuming to do the a whole >field but a little plot might work. Goofy idea: It the tight husk is >supposed to keep out the worms what if you applied a rubber band or some >sort of tie around the tassle end would that keep them out? We have the Bt >for corn and will probably use it, but I suppose a worm or two will still >slither in. I told my husband I have no problem telling the CSA members >this is organic corn, break off the worm cook and enjoy a chemical free ear. >Or I could do what I did last year (but I had way less members) husk corn >break off worm put corn in bag looking beautiful :). Beth > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 11:03:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA18691 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24977 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:55:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA24886 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA09642; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:55:29 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma008671; Tue, 29 Jun 99 08:54:38 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:54:38 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDD8@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: corn Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:54:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1451 Steve and Beth, Beth wrote: > We are growing a sweet corn variety called Tuxedo > ordered from Fedco. It has a naturally tight husk > which help deter the worms, supposedly they > can't get in. I am playing with a little tropical x temperate supersweet material I got from Jim Brewbaker in Hawaii. It has husk cover out the kazoo. Corn from the lowland tropics is naturally resistant to ear insects, but it is very late under long days. Jim at the University of Hawaii has developed some good sweetcorns, standard sugarys, and supersweets based on both brittle1 and shrunken2 genes. > I have heard an application of mineral oil helps, but > I am unclear as to how to apply. I believe its just a > bit on the tassles. No, you have to inject it into the silk channel. Maybe vegetable oil would work too. I don't know how much, but you can get large-gauge hypodermic needles from some feed stores, sometimes with a blunt point for feeding (or cut off the point). Inject a small amount into the silk channel, maybe use a repeating syringe. > I had a goofy idea the other day, would be to time consuming > to do the a whole field but a little plot might work. Goofy > idea: It the tight husk is supposed to keep out the worms > what if you applied a rubber band or some sort of tie around > the tassle end would that keep them out? Maybe your rubber band idea would work, if the husk is long enough and you close it tight. Do it right when the silks just begin to turn brown. > We have the Bt for corn and will probably use it, but I suppose > a worm or two will still slither in. Trouble is the little larvae hatch quickly and immediately crawl down the silk channel where they escape anything you spray on. You have to get good coverage and spray repeatedly. It is also possible to get some control by putting out lots of Trichograma, but again, timing is crucial. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 12:16:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA01951 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26530 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:12:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26519 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.150] (term5-22.vta.west.net [205.254.241.150]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E7DA9249FC for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:12:17 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: UK: GM TRIALS WARNING Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1452 GM TRIALS WARNING Farming News, UK June 18, 1999 GM TRIAL work is in danger of grinding to a halt in the UK as both biotech companies and those involved in the Government's own farm-scale evaluation programme find it increasingly difficult to persuade farmers to allow their land to be used for the controversial crops. Fear of being exposed to costly legal damage claims from neighbouring farmers, as well as possible long-term environmental problems, are turning out to be as significant in the decision-making process as concern over direct action by anti-GM protesters. Meanwhile, 'GM-free zones' are on the horizon. One insurance expert admitted that with GM crops being such a grey area, farmers choosing to grow them were "virtually on their own". Underwriting manager at the NFU Mutual [insurance run by the National Farmers Union], Sid Gibson, confirmed to FARMING NEWS that the principles surrounding GM crops were not clearcut and the Mutual was trying to formulate its policy. "The big unknown is where there is a risk of cross contamination," he said "Farmers considering growing GM crops should get their legal advisers to look at the contract very carefully. Responsibility should be with the biotech company or institution carrying out the trials." Chairman of the Arable Research Institute Association, Frank Oldfield, confirmed that insurance was a major issue. "I've come across a number of farmers who have said they are prepared to grow GM crops, but want to know who's going to insure them. If we can't grow the stuff we'll be out on a limb, at a disadvantage with the rest of the world." This week it became clear that the South West of England is well on the way to becoming the first UK 'GMO-free zone'. All the region's agricultural colleges are expected to become no-go areas for GMOs following the Royal Agricultural College's decision not to take part in farmscale GM crop experiments. "The possibility of the college being targeted by vandals was simply too great," farm manager Mike Limb told FARMING NEWS. The Duchy of Cornwall's London estate offices said that all future tenancy agreements would prohibit farmers using the technology and it was encouraging existing tenants to adopt the same policy. County council farm estates in the region also look likely to follow Somerset County Council's decision to block cultivation of GM crops on its 10,000acre estate. But Dr Peter Lutman, the co ordinator of the BRIGHT project set up to investigate day-to-day management problems on-farm, appealed for farmers to come forward. "GM crops are not up to commercial standards using conventional farm practice," he said. "Only by monitoring day-to-day management problems on-farm can we learn to grow them safely and successfully". To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 12:19:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02021 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA27336 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:16:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ava.bcc.orst.edu (ava.BCC.ORST.EDU [128.193.86.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27301 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from myron-266 (Shenk-266-2036a-I.CORDLEY.ORST.EDU [128.193.86.201]) by ava.bcc.orst.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11195 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:15:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990629081611.00963ec0@bcc.orst.edu> X-Sender: shenkm@bcc.orst.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:16:11 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Myron Shenk Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1113 In-Reply-To: <199906272210.SAA06792@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1453 Steve Groff, according to the following post from back on May 29, Bt may present some dangers. If I had the time I would look up another reference in my "controversy file," of the case of a Forest Service employee being infected by Bt. This was reported two or three years ago. You ask if this is a closeted skeleton. Probably not. It is more likely a case of choosing what risks we want to accept. Some of the pesticides approved for organic farming are know to have some pretty nasty effects, but we have chosen to accept them. I have seen at least two reports in which Rotenone has been shown to be a carcinogen. Why should this surprise us? According to Dr. Bruce Ames, nearly half of the first 65 compounds they tested from good old coffee proved to be carcinogens. As I traverse my daily 25-mile round trip to work, on my bicycle, I actually worry much more about the effects on my health of the exhaust of several hundred vehicles that whiz past me, within two meters of my frail body! How thankful I am that the good Lord designed our bodies with the capacity to repair thousands of DNA damages daily! Best wishes on your field day. Subject: BTsickness RED FLAG FOR GREEN SPRAY May 29, 1999 New Scientist Debora Mackenzie According to this story, French researchers have found that inhaling the spores of Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt, sprayed on organic crops as a pesticide can cause lung inflammation, internal bleeding and death in laboratory mice. The story notes that dried Bt spores have been used as a pesticide for more than 30 years and are one of the very few insecticides sanctioned for use on organic crops in Europe. Bt is also widely used to combat pest such as the spruce budworm, a caterpillar that attacks trees. Last year, French scientists isolated a strain of Bt that destroyed tissue in the wounds of a French soldier in Bosnia. The strain, known as H34, also infected wounds in immunosuppressed mice (This Week, 30 May 1998, p 7). Now the same team has found that H34 can kill mice with intact immune systems if they inhale the spores. Fran oise Ramisse of le Bouchet army research laboratories near Paris and her colleagues were cited as finding that healthy mice inhaling 108 spores of Bt H34 died within eight hours from internal bleeding and tissue damage. Spores from mutants of the same strain which did not produce the insecticide were equally lethal to mice, suggesting that it was not to blame. Ramisse and her colleagues presented their results at a conference in Paris last month. The researchers think that the symptoms are caused by other toxins. The bacterium's close cousin, Bacillus cereus, produces a toxin that ruptures cell membranes. And in 1991, Japanese researchers showed that B. thuringiensis produces the same toxin. In fact, when the French researchers ran samples from the soldier from Bosnia through an automated medical analyser, it seemed to show that the bacterium was B. cereus. Ramisse suggest that companies producing Bt spores might make them safer by deleting the promoter sequence that activates the gene for the membrane-rupturing toxin. Although H34 is not used as a pesticide, commercial strains of Bt tested by the researchers also killed some mice or caused lung inflammation when inhaled. The team obtained these strains from Abbott Laboratories, a major supplier of Bt based in Chicago. Ramisse points out that the strains are sprayed on forest pests at concentrations of 1011 spores per square metreQand so might pose a danger to people in the immediate vicinity. But Abbott maintains that Bt is safe. Linda Gretton, a company spokeswoman, was quoted as saying, "We stand by our products." The French researchers have not yet tested strains made by other companies. The story notes that recorded infections by Bacillus pathogens are comparatively rare. Known pathogenic species can have very distinctive symptoms. Anthrax, for instance, is caused by B. anthracis. But where such tell-tale signs are absent, Ramisse suspects that doctors often fail to recognise that the bacteria are responsible, dismissing any Bacillus in patients' cultures as contamination. Consequently, the cultures are often discarded. When Bt was sprayed in towns in Oregon in 1991 to combat gypsy moths, the bacterium was found in clinical samples from 55 patients who had been admitted to hospital for a variety of other reasons. Robert Haward of the Soil Association, which represents Britain's organic farmers, was cited as saying that they may have to use masks and take more care when spraying the spores on crops. Myron Shenk IPPC/OSU 2040 Cordley Hall Corvallis, OR 97331-2915 Tel. 541/737-6274 Fax: 541/737-3080 Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. Proverbs 12:18 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 12:20:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02045 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06198 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:25:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06119 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP193.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.105]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04665; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3778D7F1.E3742995@sprintmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:28:02 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan/Rachna Boone CC: colibri@west.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Activist_List@listbot.com Subject: Re: anti-hail radar systems? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1454 Nathan, Your anti-hoax radar is working perfectly. There is no such thing as anti-hail missiles. If there were, don't you think we would be using them? Sounds to me like just another attempt to blame everything on the evil empire. We are, after all, an economic and military empire like the British used to be. Alex Nathan/Rachna Boone wrote: > Can anybody verify anti-hail missiles? I can believe that radar can detect > hailstorms, but are there really anti-hail missiles? > > My anti-hoax radar is beeping... > > Nathan Boone > Agricultural Consultant > 200-B Callecita Place > Santa Fe, NM 87501 > Tel: 505.992.0649 > Fax: 508.302.7761 > Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 12:24:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02128 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11645 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:35:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11627 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA05051; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199906291435.HAA05051@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:35:20 -0700 Subject: FW: Better Plants for the "Pharm" From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA11630 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1455 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Better Plants for the "Pharm" Date: Tue, Jun 29, 1999, 6:50 AM STORY LEAD: Transforming Pollen for Better Plants for the "Pharm" ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov June 29, 1999 ----------- Alfalfa has long been sold in health food stores but it's now on its way to becoming a manufacturer of mainstream medicines, thanks to a technique patented by the Agricultural Research Service for altering future plants through pollen. The technique, pollen electro-transformation, was first developed about seven years ago by Agricultural Research Service biochemists James A. Saunders and Benjamin F. Matthews in Beltsville, Md. ARS is the USDA's chief scientific arm. BTG International, Inc., in Gulph Mills, Pa., licensed the ARS technique in 1993. Now, BTG has granted a sub-license to Medicago Inc., Qubec City, Qubec, Canada, to create "pharmable" varieties of perennial forage legumes such as alfalfa and clover. In pharming, gene-engineered plants make medicinal ingredients that pharmaceutical firms can harvest or extract directly from plants. This may be less expensive than having microbes make the pharmaceuticals in fermentation vats. In electro-transformation, pollen receives an extremely brief electrical shock that moves the desired new genes into the pollen cells' genetic material. After this pollen is used to pollinate new flowers, the plants bear seeds coded for the new genes. This eliminates the tedium of nourishing gene-engineered cells into tiny plantlets in lab dishes and, ultimately, into seed-bearing plants. It also saves time and money. ARS and BTG scientists worked together to put the technology into practice for tobacco, corn and alfalfa. Medicago, Inc.--named for the alfalfa plant genus--plans on using the technique to create alfalfa varieties that produce enzymes, proteins and other compounds for human and animal medicines, vitamins, skin care products, food additives and other products. This is the latest sub-license from research agreements between ARS and BTG since 1993. Research agreements with BTG resulted in the ARS patent. BTG and ARS also have sub-licensing or option agreements with American Cyanamid Co., Princeton, N.J., for soybeans and sugarbeets; Sanford Scientific, Inc., Waterloo, N.Y., for ornamentals; and Okanagan Biotechnology, Inc., Summerland, B.C., Canada, for cherry, peach and other stone fruits. BTG officials are evaluating potential sub- licenses for other crops and uses. ---------- Scientific contacts: James A. Saunders, ARS Climate Stress Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-7477, fax (301) 504-6626, saund10449@aol.com; Benjamin F. Matthews, ARS Soybean and Alfalfa Research Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-5730, fax (301) 504-5320, bmatthew@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 13:02:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03014 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA22549 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:11:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from server1.netpath.net (root@server1.netpath.net [206.27.45.34]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22515 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.27.39.151] (Pcorncrib.netpath.net [206.27.39.151]) by server1.netpath.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08799 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:11:15 -0400 X-Sender: corncrib@netpath.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <99Jun28.094954cdt.26884@mint.cwb.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:18:46 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Gerry Cohn Subject: Re: Fencing: alternatives to treated lumber(caution) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1456 >Sorry if I contributed to anyone's confusion (except my own!) between Black >Locust (Robinia) & Honey Locust (Gleditsia). > Okay, here's one more potential source of confusion: I've seen several ads for yellow locust posts. Is this the same as Black or Honey? If not, how are these for rot resistance? Thanks Gerry Cohn/Jessica LaMontagne 1105 W. Greensboro-Chapel Hill Road Snow Camp, NC 27349 336-376-8765 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 13:02:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03024 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA22334 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:09:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22328 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.251.118]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990629160912.ORRA1417@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:09:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3778EF83.9EDC5D69@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:08:35 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Bt References: <199906290523.BAA25446@gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1457 Stephen Maxam wrote: > I am using partially organic methods, i.e. a little chemical fertilizer, but > lots of organic matter application, and no pesticides or herbicides. Why use chemical fertilizers? If there is anything this country has too much of, it's animal manures. And, if you wish to avoid animal manures, why not green manures. Legumes are especially high nitrogen sources, when turned into the soil before planting. > So, the question I have is this: > Outside of improving the organic environment, are there any "tricks" or > whatever to stop the worms? Have you tried parasitic wasps or other beneficial organisms?See: http://www.biconet.com/biocontrol.html or call 1-800-441-BUGS for more information. Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 13:45:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04047 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA11031 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:59:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11003 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:59:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Cntraryfmr@aol.com Received: from Cntraryfmr@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 7BVUa27388 (4313); Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:58:33 EDT Subject: Roundup "the environmentally friendly herbicide" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Holistic-Goats@onelist.com, ronniewg@webtv.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 216 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1458 Subject: Roundup and Cancer PRESS RELEASE - 22 JUNE - New Study Links Monsanto's Roundup to Cancer A recent study by eminent oncologists Dr. Lennart Hardell and Dr. Mikael Eriksson of Sweden [1], has revealed clear links between one of the world's biggest selling herbicide, glyphosate, to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a form of cancer [2]. In the study published in the 15 March 1999 Journal of American Cancer Society, the researchers also maintain that exposure to glyphosate 'yielded increased risks for NHL.' They stress that with the rapidly increasing use of glyphosate since the time the study was carried out, 'glyphosate deserves further epidemiologic studies.' Glyphosate, commonly known as Roundup, is the world's most widely used herbicide. It is estimated that for 1998, over a 112,000 tonnes of glyphosate was used world-wide. It indiscriminately kills off a wide variety of weeds after application and is primarily used to control annual and perennial plants. 71% of genetically engineered crops planted in 1998 are designed to be resistant to herbicides such as glyphosate, marketed by Monsanto as Roundup. Companies developing herbicide resistant crops are also increasing their production capacity for the herbicides such as glyphosate, and also requesting permits for higher residues of these chemicals in genetically engineered food. For example, Monsanto have already received permits for a threefold increase in herbicide residues on genetically engineered soybeans in Europe and the U.S., up from 6 parts per million (PPM) to 20 PPM. According to Sadhbh O' Neill of Genetic Concern, 'this study reinforces concerns by environmentalists and health professionals that far from reducing herbicide use, glyphosate resistant crops may result in increased residues to which we as consumers will be exposed in our food.' 'Increased residues of glyphosate and its metabolites are already on sale via genetically engineered soya, common in processed foods. However no studies of the effects of GE soya sprayed with Roundup on health have been carried out either on animals or humans to date,' she continued. The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) statistics from 1997 show that expanded plantings of Roundup Ready soybeans (i.e. soybeans genetically engineered to be tolerant to the herbicide) resulted in a 72% increase in the use of glyphosate. According to the Pesticides Action Network, scientists estimate that plants genetically engineered to be herbicide resistant will actually triple the amount of herbicides used. Farmers, knowing that their crop can tolerate or resist being killed off by the herbicides, will tend to use them more liberally. O' Neill concluded: 'The EPA when authorising Monsanto's field trials for Roundup-ready sugar beet did not consider the issue of glyphosate. They considered this to be the remit of the Pesticides Control Service of the Department of Agriculture. Thus nobody has included the effects of increasing the use of glyphosate in the risk/benefit analysis carried out. It is yet another example of how regulatory authorities supposedly protecting public health have failed to implement the 'precautionary principle' with respect to GMOs.' ENDS Further information: Sadhbh O' Neill at 01-4760360 or 087-2258599 or (home) 01-6774052 Notes [1] Lennart Hardell, M.D., PhD. Department of Oncology, Orebro Medical Centre, Orebro, Sweden and Miikael Eriksson, M.D., PhD, Department of Oncology, University Hospital, Lund, Sweden, 'A Case-Control Study of Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Exposure to Pesticides', Cancer, March 15, 1999/ Volume 85/ Number 6. The findings are based on a population-based case-control study conducted in Sweden between 1987 - 1990. The necessary data was ascertained by a series of comprehensive questionnaires and follow-up telephone interviews. Dr. Hardell and Dr. Eriksson found that 'exposure to herbicides and fungicides resulted in significantly increased risks for NHL'. [2] Lymphoma is a form of cancer that afflicts the lymphatic system. It can occur at virtually any part of the body but the initial symptoms are usually seen as swellings around the lymph nodes at the base of the neck. There are basically two main kinds of lymphoma, i.e. Hodgkin's disease and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. The incidence of NHL has increased rapidly in most Western countries over the last few decades. According to the American Cancer Society, there has been an alarming 80% increase in incidences of NHL since the early 1970's. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 13:59:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04635 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06856 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:45:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ace.orst.edu (IDENT:kJsL0njfVbmFGnkDTWgXuvovlcOr6t93@ace.orst.edu [128.193.97.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06819 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ace.orst.edu (IDENT:Ek/iIX787te30GCmJR++jSzXX0GsW9Sr@ace.orst.edu [128.193.97.131]) by ace.orst.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15737; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Terry L. Miller" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: Terry Miller Subject: Pesticide Poisoning Manual Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1459 Howdy! As many of you know, the new version of "Recognition and Management of Pesticide Poisonings" (previously known as the "Morgan manual") has been made available by U.S. EPA in hardcopy form. Now, I am happy to announce, the manual has been made available in electronic form (in PDF format) by the National Pesticide Telecommunications Network. It is available from the NPTN home page at - http://ace.orst.edu/info/nptn/ or directly at - http://ace.orst.edu/info/nptn/rmpp.htm I hope that you find this useful, and I would appreciate your comments about how the electronic version can be made more useful. NPTN plans to provide further enhancements, e.g., as hyperlinking, in the near future. Terry Miller = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Terry Miller - Professor & Director, National Pesticide Telecommunications Network Environmental & Molecular Toxicology Ag Chemistry Extension Oregon State University Email: millert@ace.orst.edu 333 Weniger Phone: 541/737-1811 Corvallis, OR 97331-6502 FAX: 541/737-0761 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 14:41:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05924 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA25650 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:34:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA25623 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust119.tnt1.clarksburg.wv.da.uu.net [153.35.114.119]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03449 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37790731.1805E2F0@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:49:41 -0400 From: ceres100 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Help Wanted Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1460 I hope this is not an inappropriate post for the list but I am really having trouble finding farm help and thought some of you may know someone who would be interested in this situation. My ad goes as follows: Free rent in exchange for part time work on a peaceful picturesque family farm with a focus on sustainable agriculture, conservation of heritage breeds of livestock, and simple living. Seeking a mature single adult with livestock handling and equipment operation/ maintenance skills. Must have own transportation. No drug or alcohol problems/dogs/live in guests. References required. Roy B. Davis Rt 1 Box 351 Weston, WV 26452 ceres100@earthlink.net The work averages about 4 hrs/day, but is flexible. This would be a great situation for a retired person. I am hoping to find a person who would like to stay long term. There are lots of other farm related amenities thrown in as well.

    Thanks all. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 16:04:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07820 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14417 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:21:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14372 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool020-cvx.ds59-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.170.20]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id N7CD6B83; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:20:40 -0400 Message-ID: <37791FC4.D8590B52@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:34:29 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sanet Subject: [Fwd: Informatio on how to grow mesclun] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1461 Jennifer Maynard wrote: > Dear Sir/Madam, I live in the Caribbean and wish to grow mesclun. I > need information on the yield in pounds per foot, etc. I have an idea > of the number of side salad and meal salad servings per pound, but I > need > to know yield per area planted. Also I need to have an idea of the soil > > depth as it is not being allowed to head. Also how many cuttings can > a plant survive before it bolts, or dies, etc. Also tell me how much of > each > type. Please put me on to any one who can give me production > information so that I determine how much seed I need to purchase. Do > you know of the various seed such as follow: > > radicchio, Sesam lollo rosso, Impuls lollo rosso, baby green > oak,baby red oak, baby red leaf, baby red romaine, Rosilita Romaine, > Rouge d'HIver Romaine, Parris Island Cos, Chervil,Golden > pueslane,MacGregors FavoriteBeet root, Perpetual Spinach Beet root, > Spinach, butterheads lettuce,baby red perella, Green leaf, Tat Soi, > Tango, Elan mache', Vit mache, Chervil, Other Endives, Frisee, Red > orach, Miners Lettuce, Celtuce, Osaka Purple cress, Green mustard, Guilo > Radicchio, Early Teviso, Red Russian Kale, Fordhook giant Chard, Ruby > Red Chard, > mizuna*, red chard, red mustard, cress, arrugola, etc. and any other > recommended seed to develop two ot three mixes of mesclun for > different customers. I had searched the web, and I have gleaned > info on varieties for a number of garden writers and Extension > Bulletins on the Web. But, I cannot find the yield data and spacing > data that one would need to prepare a production plan. Tell me of any > other seed I > would need to purchase to develop of my own. Any help you can give me > would be appreciated. Do you know of seed companies that have > samples for a one serving trial in my climatic zone, etc, etc? Or > Rather could > you suggest the seed that I should consider for a climate that is > generally 75 to 85 degrees farenheight. > > Send info by e-mail to Jennifer Maynard. or by post to P.O. Box > 1809, > St. John's Antigua West Indies. > Thanks Much > Jennifer To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 16:11:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA07969 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14014 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:20:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA13997 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26881>; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:26:53 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Jun29.142653cdt.26881@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:18:40 -0500 Subject: RE: Thornless Honey Locust Cultivars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1462 I got the following from Dr Michael Gold from the dept of forrestry at U Missouri: Pat: Thornless HL needs to be purchased from a reputable nursery. Since you can take the "adult" wood (which is often thornless on even a thorny tree) from the upper, outer crown of a thorny tree and through grafting get a "thornless" tree, you can not grow honeylocust from seed and be sure of it being 'inermis'. It is possible to collect and germinate seeds (seeds must be either filed down or acid scarified to germinate readily) and grow the seedlings for a couple years in order to determine if they are thorny or not. Many thorny seedlings will show thorns within 10 weeks of germination, other that are not quite so "armed" may not reveal their true nature until a somewhat later age. Honeylocust is planted all over the country as an ornamental, but it is best to purchase a sapling from a local nursery that has a good reputation. Honeylocust that has a southern origin will suffer dieback or even death if planted in the northern tier of states. Sincerely, Dr. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Pat Elazar [mailto:Pat_Elazar@cwb.ca] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 11:24 AM To: GoldM@missouri.edu Subject: Improved Honey Locust Cultivars Hi Dr Mike! I hope you & family are okay. Glad to see you back in the west! I have an urgent question about thornless Honey Locust (G.T. Inerma). Are there grafted varities of this cultivar available, or do they grow "true" from seed? What would be the approximate range? This is from a client, not for my own use... BTW, do you have chestnuts down there at Missou? Pat To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 17:59:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA10226 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA12483 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:08:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12432 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.251]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990629210732.USN973@worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:07:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3779356E.B862466D@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:06:54 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Cornell: Biological Control --B.t. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1463 Information about Bacillus thuringiensis at: http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/pathogens/bacteria.html ~Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 21:07:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA13356 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA14367 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:19:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sol.ml.com.mx ([200.38.239.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14339 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:19:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SKYE by sol.ml.com.mx with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1460.8) id N432XG8B; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:28:06 -0600 Message-ID: <377964AD.3ED4@tortuga.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:28:29 -0600 From: Skye Reply-To: skye@tortuga.com Organization: Tamu Tariaticha, Instituto de Permacultura de Mexico X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re Monarch Survey Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1464 Don't know what is happening up there, but I can tell you that the Monarchs that overwinter here in Michoacan, Mexico all left three months ago. By end of March there were none left here. Maybe Monsanto intercepted them all! -- Skye - Apdo # 391, Patzcuaro, Michoacan, CP. 61600 Mxico. fax (52) 01 (434) 24743 Profesor y diseador en Permacultura Director del Instituto de Permacultura de Mxico A.C. Talleres de desarrollo humano, planeacin participativa y economa comunitaria. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 23:17:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA14917 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA14631 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:38:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA14533 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA06535 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:37:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2c-29.ix.netcom.com(209.110.254.29) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006512; Tue Jun 29 21:37:10 1999 Message-ID: <001c01bec2a0$9ebb8d40$1dfe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Re: corn Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:31:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1465 To everyone who answered my question about corn, big thank-you very useful info. Believe I will try to get the info from U. Mass (I live in Mass). And I apologize for using the word tassel and silk interchangeably, whoops :). Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jun 29 23:40:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA15377 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA28232 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:01:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rttinc.com ([198.161.101.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA28159 for ; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default [139.142.10.70] by mail.rttinc.com (SMTPD32-4.06) id A8002194013A; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:59:12 MST From: "Glenn Mainland" To: , "'Nathan/Rachna Boone'" Cc: , , Subject: RE: anti-hail radar systems? Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:58:20 -0600 Message-ID: <000001bec2a4$74c44f00$460a8e8b@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal Disposition-Notification-To: "Glenn Mainland" In-Reply-To: <3778D7F1.E3742995@sprintmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1466 I'm afraid that your anti-hoax radar is leading you astray. There is indeed a system of anti-hail radar and rocket launched hail suppression. In North America hail suppression is carried out by aircraft seeding the potential hail producing clouds with silver iodide crystals. However the Russians, and the Bulgarians, have been making use of rockets to seed the clouds. An exhaustive coverage of hail suppression technology - which dates back to 1921 - can be found at http://andromeda.hail.ersa.fvg.it__ Glenn Mainland Raven, Alberta -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Alex McGregor Sent: June 29, 1999 8:28 AM To: Nathan/Rachna Boone Cc: colibri@west.net; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Activist_List@listbot.com Subject: Re: anti-hail radar systems? Nathan, Your anti-hoax radar is working perfectly. There is no such thing as anti-hail missiles. If there were, don't you think we would be using them? Sounds to me like just another attempt to blame everything on the evil empire. We are, after all, an economic and military empire like the British used to be. Alex Nathan/Rachna Boone wrote: > Can anybody verify anti-hail missiles? I can believe that radar can detect > hailstorms, but are there really anti-hail missiles? > > My anti-hoax radar is beeping... > > Nathan Boone > Agricultural Consultant > 200-B Callecita Place > Santa Fe, NM 87501 > Tel: 505.992.0649 > Fax: 508.302.7761 > Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 09:01:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA20785 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA15296 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:19:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA15242 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu (pss10961.caf.wvu.edu [157.182.7.10]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id IAA27091; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990630081918.006b8890@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:19:18 -0400 To: ceres100 , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Lozier Subject: Re: Help Wanted In-Reply-To: <37790731.1805E2F0@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1467 Howdy, fellow West Virginian. Regarding your help wanted, I am not your man, but I wish you well. As for appropriateness of the post, I say it is okay, and it raises a subject I've been thinking about for a while. That is on-farm senior volunteers. I don't know tons of farmers, but I have come across two interesting cases. The first was a guy in vegetable farming in the upper potomac area, struggling against the odds, and saying that he was surviving only with the help of a retired friend who just liked farming. The other case is a farmer who has a friend, retired, I think, who shows up at critical agricultural times and camps in his mobile home. With his wife, I think. The point is that there are lots of ads and inquiries about "internships" which seem directed mainly at young people who don't know much. It is entirely appropriate to be looking for volunteers with good will who have life experience and skills. Seeing as how the farmer himself might well be regarded as a volunteer, given limited returns in many cases, the involvement of other volunteers is fitting enough. Of course each volunteer would have to go into a situation with eyes open and prepared to negotiate an acceptable and non-exploitive relationship. At 01:49 PM 6/29/99 -0400, ceres100 wrote: > >I hope this is not an inappropriate post for the list but I am really >having >trouble finding farm help and thought some of you may know someone who >would be interested in this situation. > >My ad goes as follows: >Free rent in exchange for part time work on a peaceful picturesque >family farm with a focus on sustainable agriculture, conservation of >heritage >breeds of livestock, and simple living. Seeking a mature single adult >with >livestock handling and equipment operation/ maintenance skills. Must >have >own transportation. No drug or alcohol problems/dogs/live in guests. >References >required. >Roy B. Davis >Rt 1 Box 351 >Weston, WV 26452 >ceres100@earthlink.net > >The work averages about 4 hrs/day, but is flexible. This would be a >great situation for a retired person. I am hoping to find a person who >would like to stay long term. There are lots of other farm related >amenities >thrown in as well. >

    Thanks all. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 11:00:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA22757 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:10:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19725 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26883>; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:15:59 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Jun30.091559cdt.26883@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:07:52 -0500 Subject: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1468 This originally came across on the Organic Gardening List pertaining to an article in the Chicago Sun Times. (Sorry for the cross posting) I wanted to offer the topic for discussion amongst SA-neters. Is this merely sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling on an eco-shed scale? Larry Newton wrote: > Thought you all might find this interesting. > > Residents question sludge use on farm > Chicago Sun Times June 30, 1999 > By Jon Schmid Environment Reporter > Chicago's Waste Management Inc. wants to increase the city's recycling by > spreading up to 60,000 tons a year of garbage particles on land owned by an > organic farm in Kankakee County. > The particles, called screenings, are sifted from residential garbage as > part of the sorting process. They don't contain anything dangerous and make > great fertilizer, said Scott Combis, division environmental engineer with > Waste Management. > But some residents of rural Momence, the proposed destination of the waste, > have their doubts. They don't want Chicago's garbage and are worried about > its potential effects. > "I'm for recycling, but this is not a dumping ground for the City of > Chicago," said Bud Love, who owns farmland adjacent to the proposed site > and has lived in the area all his life. > In March, Waste Management applied to the Illinois Environmental Protection > Agency for a permit to apply the sludge to land owned by Van Drunen Farms. > The Illinois EPA is expected to rule on the application by the end of this > week. > "This is like a weird John Grisham novel," said Michelle Marhofer, of > Momence. "Kankakee County has beautiful farmland." > The plan would be a first in Illinois and calls for the screenings, roughly > three-quarters to half an inch or less in size, to be ground up into a dry > sludge before being applied to the land. > "Testing we have done through composition studies showed that material that > size is highly organic and relatively free of manmade material and would be > a perfect candidate for agricultural purposes," said Combis. > But neighbors are concerned about odor problems and flies. They are also > worried that the sludge could contaminate nearby Singleton Ditch, which > flows into the Kankakee River. > The Illinois EPA is studying the rate at which the soil at the 136-acre > site could absorb metals in the sludge and how much inert material, such as > plastic and glass, it contains. > Van Drunen Farms is an organic farm that specializes in growing herbs, said > its owner, Ed Van Drunen. Soybeans or corn, probably not for human > consumption, and without the label "organic," would be grown on the site, > Van Drunen said. > "It's just not acceptable for farmland," said Leigh Marcotte, news editor > of the Sentinel, a Kankakee County newspaper that has written about the > proposal. "It belongs in a landfill." Kevin Chisolm replied: This proposal, to distribute Municipal Waste screenings on agricultural land, does not appear to be "fatally flawed. There is no reason given to believe that there is indeed a hazard or problem. The system is being proposed on a test basis, to determine if there are any presently unrecognized hazards. This, to me, seems to be a responsible way to go. I do feel that the article itself is irresponsible, inflammatory, and "fear mongering." The objections by the residents are "seat of the pants," "knee jerk" reactions to a proposal about which they apparently know absolutely nothing. If there is indeed a potential for problems, then one would assume that the Van Drunen Farms would be held liable for them. If nothing else, the Farm is risking its organic status. One can generally assume that if Farm Management is into organic registration, they must be a bit more responsible and a bit more knowledgeable than average. The article is writen in a cheap and devious manner. By mentioning the "60,000 tons per year....", the implied suggestion is that the initial test will involve spreading 60,000 tons of stuff on the farm. This would be totally stupid for a test. I would guess that the Farm is interested in trying a few truckloads, to see what results, and then if everything is OK, only then would they accept larger quantities. It portrays the farm, and the Chicago Waste Management people as totally irresponsible, and out to purposefully damage the engironment. That, to me, is mean and small minded. The Author, Schmid, should get his keyboard schmashed. :-) Kevin Chisholm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 11:01:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22800 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19892 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:10:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19746 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26288 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26883>; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:15:59 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Jun30.091559cdt.26883@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:07:52 -0500 Subject: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1469 This originally came across on the Organic Gardening List pertaining to an article in the Chicago Sun Times. (Sorry for the cross posting) I wanted to offer the topic for discussion amongst SA-neters. Is this merely sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling on an eco-shed scale? Larry Newton wrote: > Thought you all might find this interesting. > > Residents question sludge use on farm > Chicago Sun Times June 30, 1999 > By Jon Schmid Environment Reporter > Chicago's Waste Management Inc. wants to increase the city's recycling by > spreading up to 60,000 tons a year of garbage particles on land owned by an > organic farm in Kankakee County. > The particles, called screenings, are sifted from residential garbage as > part of the sorting process. They don't contain anything dangerous and make > great fertilizer, said Scott Combis, division environmental engineer with > Waste Management. > But some residents of rural Momence, the proposed destination of the waste, > have their doubts. They don't want Chicago's garbage and are worried about > its potential effects. > "I'm for recycling, but this is not a dumping ground for the City of > Chicago," said Bud Love, who owns farmland adjacent to the proposed site > and has lived in the area all his life. > In March, Waste Management applied to the Illinois Environmental Protection > Agency for a permit to apply the sludge to land owned by Van Drunen Farms. > The Illinois EPA is expected to rule on the application by the end of this > week. > "This is like a weird John Grisham novel," said Michelle Marhofer, of > Momence. "Kankakee County has beautiful farmland." > The plan would be a first in Illinois and calls for the screenings, roughly > three-quarters to half an inch or less in size, to be ground up into a dry > sludge before being applied to the land. > "Testing we have done through composition studies showed that material that > size is highly organic and relatively free of manmade material and would be > a perfect candidate for agricultural purposes," said Combis. > But neighbors are concerned about odor problems and flies. They are also > worried that the sludge could contaminate nearby Singleton Ditch, which > flows into the Kankakee River. > The Illinois EPA is studying the rate at which the soil at the 136-acre > site could absorb metals in the sludge and how much inert material, such as > plastic and glass, it contains. > Van Drunen Farms is an organic farm that specializes in growing herbs, said > its owner, Ed Van Drunen. Soybeans or corn, probably not for human > consumption, and without the label "organic," would be grown on the site, > Van Drunen said. > "It's just not acceptable for farmland," said Leigh Marcotte, news editor > of the Sentinel, a Kankakee County newspaper that has written about the > proposal. "It belongs in a landfill." Kevin Chisolm replied: This proposal, to distribute Municipal Waste screenings on agricultural land, does not appear to be "fatally flawed. There is no reason given to believe that there is indeed a hazard or problem. The system is being proposed on a test basis, to determine if there are any presently unrecognized hazards. This, to me, seems to be a responsible way to go. I do feel that the article itself is irresponsible, inflammatory, and "fear mongering." The objections by the residents are "seat of the pants," "knee jerk" reactions to a proposal about which they apparently know absolutely nothing. If there is indeed a potential for problems, then one would assume that the Van Drunen Farms would be held liable for them. If nothing else, the Farm is risking its organic status. One can generally assume that if Farm Management is into organic registration, they must be a bit more responsible and a bit more knowledgeable than average. The article is writen in a cheap and devious manner. By mentioning the "60,000 tons per year....", the implied suggestion is that the initial test will involve spreading 60,000 tons of stuff on the farm. This would be totally stupid for a test. I would guess that the Farm is interested in trying a few truckloads, to see what results, and then if everything is OK, only then would they accept larger quantities. It portrays the farm, and the Chicago Waste Management people as totally irresponsible, and out to purposefully damage the engironment. That, to me, is mean and small minded. The Author, Schmid, should get his keyboard schmashed. :-) Kevin Chisholm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 11:24:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA23363 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09362 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:42:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09298 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP331.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.109]) by raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03799 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <377A2D8A.1943A5FA@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:45:31 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: [Fwd: Roundup and Cancer - Recent research] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E113F0367AF3FFE29D2E586A" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1470 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E113F0367AF3FFE29D2E586A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------E113F0367AF3FFE29D2E586A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from noel.pd.org (qmailr@noel.pd.org [170.140.110.193]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA02049 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 05:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26906 invoked by alias); 30 Jun 1999 12:48:52 -0000 Delivered-To: org-grow@pd.org Received: (qmail 26903 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 12:48:49 -0000 Received: from stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (24.88.1.79) by noel.pd.org with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 12:48:49 -0000 Received: from ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.net (client37228.atl.mediaone.net [24.88.37.228]) by stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA29620 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002f01bec2d7$a62d5ae0$e4255818@ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.net> From: "Craig Gilbert" To: Subject: Roundup and Cancer - Recent research Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:04:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01BEC2D7.937AAC40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BEC2D7.937AAC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Roundup and Cancer PRESS RELEASE - 22 JUNE - New Study Links Monsanto's Roundup to Cancer A recent study by eminent oncologists Dr. Lennart Hardell and Dr. Mikael Eriksson of Sweden [1], has revealed clear links between one of the = world's biggest selling herbicide, glyphosate, to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a form = of cancer [2]. In the study published in the 15 March 1999 Journal of American Cancer Society, the researchers also maintain that exposure to glyphosate = 'yielded increased risks for NHL.' They stress that with the rapidly increasing = use of glyphosate since the time the study was carried out, 'glyphosate deserves further epidemiologic studies.' Glyphosate, commonly known as Roundup, is the world's most widely used herbicide. It is estimated that for 1998, over a 112,000 tonnes of glyphosate was used world-wide. It indiscriminately kills off a wide variety of weeds after application and is primarily used to control = annual and perennial plants. 71% of genetically engineered crops planted in 1998 are designed to be resistant to herbicides such as glyphosate, marketed by Monsanto as Roundup. Companies developing herbicide resistant crops are also = increasing their production capacity for the herbicides such as glyphosate, and = also requesting permits for higher residues of these chemicals in genetically engineered food. For example, Monsanto have already received permits for = a threefold increase in herbicide residues on genetically engineered = soybeans in Europe and the U.S., up from 6 parts per million (PPM) to 20 PPM. According to Sadhbh O' Neill of Genetic Concern, 'this study reinforces concerns by environmentalists and health professionals that far from reducing herbicide use, glyphosate resistant crops may result in = increased residues to which we as consumers will be exposed in our food.' 'Increased residues of glyphosate and its metabolites are already on = sale via genetically engineered soya, common in processed foods. However no studies of the effects of GE soya sprayed with Roundup on health have = been carried out either on animals or humans to date,' she continued. The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) statistics from 1997 show that expanded plantings of Roundup Ready soybeans (i.e. soybeans genetically engineered to be tolerant to the herbicide) resulted in a = 72% increase in the use of glyphosate. According to the Pesticides Action Network, scientists estimate that plants genetically engineered to be herbicide resistant will actually triple the amount of herbicides used. Farmers, knowing that their crop can tolerate or resist being killed off = by the herbicides, will tend to use them more liberally. O' Neill concluded: 'The EPA when authorising Monsanto's field trials = for Roundup-ready sugar beet did not consider the issue of glyphosate. They considered this to be the remit of the Pesticides Control Service of the Department of Agriculture. Thus nobody has included the effects of increasing the use of glyphosate in the risk/benefit analysis carried = out. It is yet another example of how regulatory authorities supposedly protecting public health have failed to implement the 'precautionary principle' with respect to GMOs.' ENDS Further information: Sadhbh O' Neill at 01-4760360 or 087-2258599 or Notes [1] Lennart Hardell, M.D., PhD. Department of Oncology, Orebro Medical Centre, Orebro, Sweden and Miikael Eriksson, M.D., PhD, Department of Oncology, University Hospital, Lund, Sweden, 'A Case-Control Study of Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Exposure to Pesticides', Cancer, March 15, = 1999/ Volume 85/ Number 6. The findings are based on a population-based case-control study = conducted in Sweden between 1987 - 1990. The necessary data was ascertained by a series of comprehensive questionnaires and follow-up telephone = interviews. Dr. Hardell and Dr. Eriksson found that 'exposure to herbicides and fungicides resulted in significantly increased risks for NHL'. [2] Lymphoma is a form of cancer that afflicts the lymphatic system. It can occur at virtually any part of the body but the initial symptoms are usually seen as swellings around the lymph nodes at the base of the = neck. There are basically two main kinds of lymphoma, i.e. Hodgkin's disease = and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. The incidence of NHL has increased rapidly in most Western countries = over the last few decades. According to the American Cancer Society, there = has been an alarming 80% increase in incidences of NHL since the early = 1970's. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BEC2D7.937AAC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Subject: Roundup and Cancer

    PRESS RELEASE - 22 JUNE - New = Study=20 Links Monsanto's Roundup to Cancer

    A recent study by eminent = oncologists=20 Dr. Lennart Hardell and Dr. Mikael
    Eriksson of Sweden [1], has = revealed clear=20 links between one of the world's
    biggest selling herbicide, = glyphosate, to=20 non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a form of
    cancer [2].

    In the study = published=20 in the 15 March 1999 Journal of American Cancer
    Society, the = researchers also=20 maintain that exposure to glyphosate 'yielded
    increased risks for = NHL.' They=20 stress that with the rapidly increasing use
    of glyphosate since the = time the=20 study was carried out, 'glyphosate
    deserves further epidemiologic=20 studies.'

    Glyphosate, commonly known as Roundup, is the world's = most=20 widely used
    herbicide. It is estimated that for 1998, over a 112,000 = tonnes=20 of
    glyphosate was used world-wide. It indiscriminately kills off a=20 wide
    variety of weeds after application and is primarily used to = control=20 annual
    and perennial plants.

    71% of genetically engineered = crops=20 planted in 1998 are designed to be
    resistant to herbicides such as=20 glyphosate, marketed by Monsanto as
    Roundup. Companies developing = herbicide=20 resistant crops are also increasing
    their production capacity for the = herbicides such as glyphosate, and also
    requesting permits for higher = residues of these chemicals in genetically
    engineered food. For = example,=20 Monsanto have already received permits for a
    threefold increase in = herbicide=20 residues on genetically engineered soybeans
    in Europe and the U.S., = up from 6=20 parts per million (PPM) to 20 PPM.

    According to Sadhbh O' Neill = of=20 Genetic Concern, 'this study reinforces
    concerns by environmentalists = and=20 health professionals that far from
    reducing herbicide use, glyphosate = resistant crops may result in increased
    residues to which we as = consumers=20 will be exposed in our food.'

    'Increased residues of glyphosate = and its=20 metabolites are already on sale
    via genetically engineered soya, = common in=20 processed foods. However no
    studies of the effects of GE soya sprayed = with=20 Roundup on health have been
    carried out either on animals or humans = to date,'=20 she continued.

    The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) = statistics from 1997
    show that expanded plantings of Roundup Ready = soybeans=20 (i.e. soybeans
    genetically engineered to be tolerant to the = herbicide)=20 resulted in a 72%
    increase in the use of glyphosate. According to the = Pesticides Action
    Network, scientists estimate that plants = genetically=20 engineered to be
    herbicide resistant will actually triple the amount = of=20 herbicides used.
    Farmers, knowing that their crop can tolerate or = resist=20 being killed off by
    the herbicides, will tend to use them more=20 liberally.

    O' Neill concluded: 'The EPA when authorising = Monsanto's field=20 trials for
    Roundup-ready sugar beet did not consider the issue of = glyphosate.=20 They
    considered this to be the remit of the Pesticides Control = Service of=20 the
    Department of Agriculture. Thus nobody has included the effects=20 of
    increasing the use of glyphosate in the risk/benefit analysis = carried=20 out.
    It is yet another example of how regulatory authorities=20 supposedly
    protecting public health have failed to implement the=20 'precautionary
    principle' with respect to = GMOs.'

    ENDS

    Further=20 information: Sadhbh O' Neill at 01-4760360 or 087-2258599=20 or

    Notes

    [1] Lennart Hardell, M.D., PhD. Department of = Oncology,=20 Orebro Medical
    Centre, Orebro, Sweden and Miikael Eriksson, M.D., = PhD,=20 Department of
    Oncology, University Hospital, Lund, Sweden, 'A = Case-Control=20 Study of
    Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Exposure to Pesticides', Cancer, = March 15,=20 1999/
    Volume 85/ Number 6.

    The findings are based on a=20 population-based case-control study conducted
    in Sweden between 1987 = - 1990.=20 The necessary data was ascertained by a
    series of comprehensive=20 questionnaires and follow-up telephone interviews.
    Dr. Hardell and = Dr.=20 Eriksson found that 'exposure to herbicides and
    fungicides resulted = in=20 significantly increased risks for NHL'.

    [2] Lymphoma is a form of = cancer=20 that afflicts the lymphatic system. It
    can occur at virtually any = part of the=20 body but the initial symptoms are
    usually seen as swellings around = the lymph=20 nodes at the base of the neck.
    There are basically two main kinds of=20 lymphoma, i.e. Hodgkin's disease and
    non-Hodgkin's = lymphoma.

    The=20 incidence of NHL has increased rapidly in most Western countries = over
    the=20 last few decades. According to the American Cancer Society, there = has
    been an=20 alarming 80% increase in incidences of NHL since the early=20 1970's.
    ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01BEC2D7.937AAC40-- --------------E113F0367AF3FFE29D2E586A-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 12:17:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA24578 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09696 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:35:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA09692 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:30:49 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:28:13 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: kstoner@caes.state.ct.us, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, guldann@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: corn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1471 Does anyone know if corn borers are toxic or otherwise a health hazard? Or, besides raising the protein content of the corn minutely, is their only damage aesthetic (admittedly a major effect when faced by squeamish consumers)? BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 12:54:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25301 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20305 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:53:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web604.mail.yahoo.com (web604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA20258 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990630155340.20988.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web604.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:53:40 PDT Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:53:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: A Square Peg into a Round Hole To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1472 FYI SANETeers... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Weissman > To: Multiple recipients of list CORP-FOCUS > > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:52 PM > Subject: A Square Peg into a Round Hole > > > > Fearful of a public backlash that might drive the > biotech > industry into > > oblivion, Monsanto is reaching out to its critics. > > > > Last week, Jeremy Rifkin, the biotech critic, flew to > Monsanto's world > > headquarters in St. Louis to address something called > the > World Business > > Council for Sustainable Development. > > > > According to a report in the New York Times, the > multinational giants > > wanted Rifkin to help them "paint a portrait of the > biotechnology > > landscape of the year 2030 and how it evolved." > > > > Also last week, Gordon Conway, president of the > Rockefeller Foundation, > > met with Monsanto's directors in Washington, D.C. to > persuade them to drop > > the terminator gene. It used to be that farmers would > plant seed, the crop > > would come up and be harvested, except for a handful of > plants, which the > > farmer would let go to seed, and save that seed for > next > year's planting. > > With the terminator gene, the crop comes up, but there > are > no seeds. So > > the farmer has to go to Monsanto to buy more seed. > > > > Conway told Dow Jones Newswires he is worried that the > backlash over the > > terminator gene, which is years from reaching the > commercial stage, is > > damaging public support for crop biotechnology in > general, > which might > > slow research that could benefit poor farmers overseas. > "We have a lot of > > people to feed and biotechnology is one of the > answers," > said Conway. > > > > Whatever you feel about citizens of conscience meeting > with corporations > > to seek to persuade them to do the right thing, (and we > are not of one > > mind on this), it is clear that the biotech industry is > in > a panic over > > its beloved high-tech future. > > > > The masses in Europe are in full revolt over the issue > (with the Prince of > > Wales leading the charge against the corporatist Labor > Party in the UK). > > And a lawsuit that the mainstream press has largely > ignored -- a lawsuit > > that threatens the well-being of Monsanto, Norvartis > and > other biotech > > firms -- is making its way through the courts. > > > > In May 1998, a number of public interest groups sued > the > Food and Drug > > Administration (FDA), alleging that the agency violated > federal law by > > allowing biotech foods onto the market without first > adequately testing > > the foods for safety and then without adequately > labelling > those foods so > > that consumers know whether, for example, they are > eating > fish genes > > spliced into their tomato sauce. > > > > The federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act incorporates > the > precautionary > > principle -- a new food additive is presumed unsafe > until > established safe > > through standard scientific procedures. But the FDA > ruled > in 1992 that > > genetically engineered foods are not new food > additives. > > > > In the FDA's critical 1992 statement of policy on > biotech > foods -- the > > policy that opened the floodgates that allowed biotech > foods to pour into > > the marketplace -- the FDA claims that it was "not > aware > of any > > information showing that foods derived by these new > [biotech] methods > > differ from other foods in any meaningful or uniform > way." > > > > In fact, internal reports and memos obtained during the > course of > > discovery for the lawsuit reveal the FDA's own > scientists > warned that > > foods produced through recombinant DNA technology > entail > different risks > > than do their conventionally produced counterparts. > > > > But these scientists were consistently disregarded by > the > bureaucrats who > > approved the agency's current policy of treating > bioengineered foods the > > same as natural foods that have been changed by > conventional breeding > > practices. > > > > "There is a profound difference between the types of > unexpected effects > > from traditional breeding and genetic engineering which > is > just glanced > > over in this document," warned Dr. Louis Priybl of the > FDA's Microbiology > > Group in criticizing a 1992 FDA draft policy paper on > the > issue. > > > > Dr. Linda Kayl, an FDA compliance officer, complained > that > the FDA was > > "trying to fit a square peg into a round hole" by > concluding that "there > > is no difference between foods modified by genetic > engineering and foods > > modified by traditional breeding practices." > > > > "The processes of genetic engineering and traditional > breeding are > > different, and according to the technical experts in > the > agency, they lead > > to different risks," Kayl said. > > > > Kayl and other FDA scientists recommended that > genetically > engineered > > foods undergo special testing. To no avail. > > > > So, Americans are now eating genetically engineered > foods. > And for the > > most part, they don't know it. > > > > The main genetically engineered crops in the United > States > are soy, corn, > > canola, cotton, potatoes, papayas, and raddichio. (You > might say -- hey, > > I don't eat cotton. But cottonseed oil is in many > vegetable oil blends, > > which are in many processed foods.) > > > > It has been estimated that corn and soy alone are in 70 > to > 80 percent of > > U.S. processed foods. And since 40 percent of this > season's soybean crop > > and 30 percent of the corn crop have been genetically > engineered, you are > > probably eating genetically engineered foods, whether > you > like it, or know > > it, or not. > > > > Steven Druker, the executive director of the Iowa > City-based Alliance for > > Bio-Integrity, is the driving force behind the lawsuit > against the FDA. > > > > The lawsuit has received little media publicity since > being filed last > > year, but Druker predicts that when the American people > learn the details > > of the FDA's deception, we'll see an earthquake of > public > reaction against > > biotech foods. > > > > "The FDA has been intentionally unleashing a host of > potentially harmful > > foods onto American dinner tables in blatant violation > of > U.S. law," > > Druker told us. "And they have been covering up the > fact > that they have > > been acting so wrongly. I don't like that. And most > people > who learn the > > facts do not like it." > > > > Bon appetit. > > > > Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, > D.C.-based > Corporate Crime > > Reporter. Robert Weissman is editor of the Washington, > D.C.-based > > Multinational Monitor. They are co-authors of Corporate > Predators: The > > Hunt for MegaProfits and the Attack on Democracy, > Common > Courage Press, > > 1999, http://www.corporatepredators.org. > > > > (c) Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman > > Focus on the Corporation is a weekly column written by > Russell Mokhiber > > and Robert Weissman. Please feel free to forward the > column to friends or > > repost the column on other lists. If you would like to > post the column on > > a web site or publish it in print format, we ask that > you > first contact us > > (russell@essential.org or rob@essential.org). > > > > Focus on the Corporation is distributed to individuals > on > the listserve > > corp-focus@essential.org. To subscribe to corp-focus, > send > an e-mail > > message to listproc@essential.org with the following > all > in one line: > > > > subscribe corp-focus (no period). > > > > Focus on the Corporation columns are posted at > > . > > > > Postings on corp-focus are limited to the columns. If > you > would like to > > comment on the columns, send a message to > russell@essential.org or > > rob@essential.org. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 13:09:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25786 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA10728 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:28:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10697 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00107 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id MAA12538; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <377A4663.B637E5C7@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:31:32 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob MacGregor , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: corn References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1473 Bob MacGregor wrote: > Does anyone know if corn borers are toxic or otherwise a health hazard? Or, besides raising the protein content of the corn minutely, is their only damage aesthetic (admittedly a major effect when faced by squeamish consumers)? > > BOB One of the biggest problems is the potential "infection court" that is created by corn borer feeding. Plant parasitic fungi (and saprophytic fungi for that matter) would have an easier time infecting (or infesting) the corn. Some fungi can produce powerful mycotoxins (Fusarium spp., Aspergillus spp.). There may also be desiccation of the ear. . . But I think the increased potential for fungal infestation/infection is the biggest thing. . . Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 13:48:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26902 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27202 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:55:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27090 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA27945 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990630130144.007ded20@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:01:44 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: sludge disposal In-Reply-To: <199906301444.KAA09789@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1474 Fear mongering or not, does anyone really think that sludge "relatively free of manmade material" is appropriate for fertilizer use? The City of Chicago and the sludge processing company cannot control what manmade materials citizens and industry throw in the trash. All manner of nasties could end up in this "soil amendment." Wasn't the Belgian dioxin poisoning allegedly caused by someone dumping transformer oil into public vegetable oil recycling tanks? We should also be aware that both cities and waste processors are desperate for places to put sewage sludge now that most landfills are full and no one wants any new ones. So of course they are very interested in pitching this material as a great farm product. If I had a farm I wouldn't use this stuff. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 14:04:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27190 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA02003 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:04:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01959 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn39ha1.gdinet.com [156.46.27.40]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13219 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:04:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:04:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199906301704.MAA13219@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: is this accurate? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1475 Jefferson County Land Trust held a field day on organic food certification and direct marketing. The field days were held at Prairie Dock Farm, near Watertown, WI. Approximately 25 people were in attendance. It was a wet rainy afternoon, but between indoor lecture and raindrops, participants were able to tour the farm and become aquatinted with heritage animals. Dave Engle of the Organic Crop Improvement Association (OCIA) spoke on the benefits of being organically certified as well as how to become certified. He said rather than being an organization of strict rules and regulations, they like to take a common sense approach to certification. Discussion continued to the scope of organics world wide. The European Union(EU), and many other agricultural nations, have not embraced high technology methods the way Americans have. For instance a 2 year ban on genetically modified organisms has been instituted by the EU, as well as a ban on bovine growth hormone(rBGH). Thoughts were express about growing ourselves out of a huge market by embracing technology much of the rest of the world considers dangerous and exploitive. Greg David , owner of Prairie Dock Farm, a local direct marketer of farm produce through a technique known as community supported agriculture(CSA), talked about the price of food in our country and the governmental policies that cause this to be so. While most of the policies reinforce former Secretary of Agriculture, Earl Butz's proclamation, "Get big, or get out", these same policies have had many more consequences than simply providing a cheap food supply for the American public. David said, "Americans spend around 11% of their income on food, and of that 11%, over half is spent on fast food. While this may seem like a good thing it has many unseen consequences. It has the effect of concentrating and centralizing our food production system. Take for instance the vertical integration in the hog market farmers suffered through last year, or the regulation of milk prices spelling doom for Wisconsin dairy farmers today. In the vegetable production arena, it forces me to compete directly with produce coming from California and other locations, subsidized by transportation,use of public water, pollution, and social costs. The vegetables grown in California are done so by employing migrant labor, some of it illegally emigrated and paid a non-living wage. These types of employment practices have real costs being born by Californian taxpayers. Further it causes food prices to be unrealistically low, and nearly impossible to make a living being a farmer." Karen Kerr, a local farmer spoke about the benefits of raising heritage animals and direct marketing to the public. A heritage animal is a breed of animal that has been around for generations, but is in danger of going extinct because they do not fit into high tech farming methods. They do however have characteristics that our forefathers thought beneficial. Most are very hardy, able to utilization a diet modern animals would find difficult to use, and fit readily into a pasture based farming method. The Scottish Highland Cattle she brought with her, are the leanest of cattle, thrive with almost no graining and have a coat that protects them from all but the severest of winter storms. They were the cattle the pioneers used to pull the prairie schooners across the American frontier because of the adaptability of their diet and their ability to be used as draft animals once a final destination was reached. Kerr also raises Cotswool and Jacobs sheep, Feighting goats and most notably Tamworth hogs. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 14:47:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28181 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA02922 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:56:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from foe.org (No.Such.Address.at.Essential.ORG [216.0.124.66] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA02813 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FOE-Message_Server by foe.org with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:55:20 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 13:55:13 -0400 From: "valerie frances" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Fair Agri-Chemical Taxes: Tax Reform for Sustainable Agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA02840 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1476 Greetings SANETers: NEWS RELEASE For Immediate Release: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 Contact: Larry Bohlen, 202-783-7400 x25 Gawain Kripke, 202-783-7400 x212 States Lose $674 Million a Year to Sales Tax Exemptions for Pesticides, Fertilizers Farm, Consumer, and Environmental Groups Call on States to Reform Tax System to Support Sustainable Agriculture Today, Friends of the Earth and nine other consumer, farm and environmental groups called upon officials in 29 states to eliminate exemptions from their state sales taxes for agricultural chemicals such as pesticides and fertilizers. The groups said the $674 million in lost revenue should be used to support family farms, sustainable agriculture, and conservation education. The groups released a report, "Fair Agricultural Chemical Taxes: Tax Reform for Sustainable Agriculture" that shows that 29 of 50 states exempt agricultural chemicals from state sales taxes, resulting in an annual loss of $674 million in revenue. The ten states losing the most revenue are Minnesota ($65 million); Texas ($62 million); Illinois ($59 million); California ($54 million); Florida ($50 million); Indiana ($45 million); Washington ($36 million); Kansas ($36 million); Ohio ($35 million); and Missouri ($27 million). "State governments should not be subsidizing the use of poisons and pollution in agriculture," said Larry Bohlen, Director of Health and Environment Programs at Friends of the Earth. "If state officials want tax breaks for farmers, there are better ways than subsidizing pollution." The report highlights health and environmental problems caused by over-reliance on pesticides and fertilizers in agriculture. For instance, in Dane County, Wisconsin, over 1/3 of rural well water is contaminated with nitrates making it unsafe for infants to drink. Nationwide, health and environmental costs as a consequence of pesticide use alone are estimated to be about $8 billion per year. "More and more Americans are asking for food free from chemicals and genetic manipulation. Government should change with the times * not stand in the way of a healthier food supply," said Larry Bohlen. The report suggests a wide range of options for state officials to tailor sales tax revenue to their state's needs. Funding could be used, for instance, to help farmers make the transition away from chemically-intensive practices, to clean up contaminated sites, or for tax relief promoting farming but not heavy use of chemicals. The "Fair Agricultural Chemical Taxes" (FACT) report is available on the web at www.foe.org/fact. Copies of the report are available to the public for $10 each to cover postage and printing. Please call Friends of the Earth at 202-783-7400 and ask for the Publications Office. Valerie Frances Fair Agri-Chemical tax Campaign Friends of the Earth 1025 Vermont Ave., NW Third Floor Washington, DC 20005 Ph: (202) 783-7400 ext 258 Fax: (202) 783-0444 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 16:47:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA01279 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA13551 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:59:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA13478 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id OAA19052; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:59:14 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma017334; Wed, 30 Jun 99 14:58:02 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:58:02 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDDB@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: corn Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:58:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1477 Bob > Does anyone know if corn borers are toxic or otherwise a > health hazard? I don't know about ECB but they say earworms are quite good fried in butter. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 17:11:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01915 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA28873 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:29:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28817 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:29:32 -0400 (EDT) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 7GVTa23465 (306); Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <66c4a609.24abd79b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:27:07 EDT Subject: Food For The Future - Suggestions Needed To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu CC: PetersFarm@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1478 Dear friends - Some of you may remember a proposal I wrote about in May of 1998, called Food For The Future, a variation on the land trust theme but with emphasis on saving farms at risk, promoting organic farming, and helping new farmers get started. The concept was so warmly received by some of you (especially Judy Green, Douglas Hinds, Kim Stoner, Cecile Mills, Amy Knutson, John Ikerd, Jonda Crosby, Tom Allen) that we've done a lot of work on it since then, but not enough - e.g., haven't done the budget for 501(c)(3) application, because the Plan still hasn't quite solidified. Anyway, three weeks ago I realized this plan could be limited to Vermont to start with, and could benefit from a lot of personal contact with people around the state. I decided to acquire a used motor home and tour Vermont from July through October, visiting organic farms, CSA's, land trusts, farm lenders, extension agents, and other good people, by invitation. I would introduce the plan and get direct feedback. The visits would get people thinking, the feedback would enrich our own thinking and the written materials needed for promotion. Very exciting idea, and I have the free time. So anyway, turns out there aren't many used motor homes for sale, especially within my price range of $5,000 and financed. I finally found one that's just right for $4,500, but financing is another matter. Banks won't finance an RV more than 7 years old, and besides my credit's ancient history is "less than perfect" and recent history doesn't seem to count. Do any of you know of resources that might help in this situation? Typical financing, I am told, is for five years at 13%, which I could manage comfortably out of my social security. Many lenders who advertise sky pie loans require that you have some home equity, but don't consider motor homes homes. (Although I learned that interest payments on motor home loans are tax deductible. Crazy world.) I suppose this reminds you of the college kid who only writes home when he/she needs money? Well, if you'd been getting postings right along on the p...r..o..g..r....e....s...s, you'd have stopped reading them. Actually the Plan itself has changed very little - major revisions are that the former owner can perhaps lease the farm (not necessarily a beginning farmer) and the leasing farmer has first option to buy the leased farm instead of having to find another one. Would be good to hear from any of you, with or without suggestions. Can e-mail one-page summary of the Plan on request, can include supporting arguments and data by mail if desired. Finally, I'm changing my first name back to Ann, which is what my husband and friends called me, for all of my 45 years in Masssachusetts, and which makes me Ann Gras the AG lady. P.S. I do read all the SANet postings, isn't it embarassing that peoples - and even governments - of other countries know so much more about GMO than Americans, when Monsanto's headquarters are right here in our own St. Louis? AG To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 17:39:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA02413 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA12736 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:57:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12720 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.134]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990630205642.DQKO4954@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:56:42 +0000 Message-ID: <377A8467.D2B79A56@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:56:07 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re:Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1479 I personally would not trust anything that Waste Management does to be safe for the natural environment. Wooing the ignorant public in south Louisiana, Waste Management advertised that their landfills were environmentally safe...like golf courses. Anyone who knows anything about this issue, knows that golf courses are like toxic waste sites. Water Environment Federation is a major player in this issue. Incinerators are not a good source of disposal of sewage sludge as they release the various pollutants into all environmental pathways. In addition, they create more noxious dioxins and furans, which are emitted into the air, soils, and food chain via enriched particulates of ash residue. All landfills are proven to leak, even Waste Management's landfills. So, where do the poor waste companies and those in the sewage treatment business dispose of this waste, when the problem is there is no safe place for the toxic substances, which are in our wastes. Commercial and residential agriculture has become a dumping ground. Toxic fertilizers, poisonous herbicides, insecticides, and fungicides that are spray/spread on grass and gardens will ultimately end up in the compost, in the ground and surface waters and the food chain. For more information on the impotency of the USEPA sludge regs, see: THE CASE FOR CAUTION.. RECOMMENDATIONS FOR LAND APPLICATION OF SEWAGE SLUDGES AND AN APPRAISAL OF THE US EPAS PART 503 SLUDGE RULES http://www.cfe.cornell.edu/wmi/PDFS/LandApp.pdf To compare the U.S. Standards with those of other countries, see: http://ecologia.nier.org/english/level1/wastenots/wn241.htm Comparison of United States, Dutch, German and Canadian Compost Quality Standards To make matters worse, sewage sludge (a.k.a. biosolids) contain everything industries and households dump down the drain. The Part 503 rule creates incentives for ''beneficial use'' of sewage sludge/biosolids. The problem is of whose use is this beneficial? Waste Management and Water Environment Federation, to name of few. Is it beneficial that e-coli, salmonella and other bacteria are in many foods that may be grown with sewage sludge? To remedy this problem, EPA is now planning on irradiating agricultural crops with radiolytic products & free radical toxins and some members of Congress want to label this process, cold or pasteurization so as not to alarm the public...that is, keep the public controlled and ignorant in order that they keep purchasing the tainted products. For more information on sludge, see: http://www.enviroweb.org/enviroissues/sludge/index.html In my opinion, American agriculture is the latest disposal site for poisons that nobody wants and vested interests and households make. An alternative is composting toilets, consuming non-toxic household and consumer products, and holding vested interests accountable. But that will never happen with industrial puppets in Congress, the USDA, EPA and the White House ...regardless of the poliltical party. BTW, some countries, such as New Zealand, are composting their garbage and sewage sludge. But based on what I observed while visiting, their garbage and sludge is less toxic than what is produced in this country. New Zealand is a country that cares more for their natural environment and public health than corporate profits. This is not true of the United States, which creates more toxic wastes than any other country in the world and dumps on other countries using trade laws. In my opinion, this is definitely sludge disposal. Separated, it could be nutrient recycling, but not when it's mixed together which is the only way it can be with profit-motivated multi-nationals in the waste business. ~Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 18:30:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA03274 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA13629 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:53:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.ppi-far.org (mail.ppi-far.org [198.78.10.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA13554 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:53:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:53:16 -0400 Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from ibm770 (206.185.4.128::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:53:15 -0400 From: "Harold Reetz" To: Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1120 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:53:09 -0500 Message-ID: <002401bec342$f13cbce0$49a0fea9@ibm770> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199906302059.QAA13192@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1480 Re: Corn borers The big problem with corn borers is the economic loss due to their feeding on the plants. Early broods attack the leaves and stalks causing physiological stress and opening the plant to secondary infections by disease organisms. This results in loss of yield potential. Later broods attack the stalk and ear shank, causing lodging and ear droppage, making harvest losses increase. When the larvae get into the ear, they can also cause quality damage, making the corn more likely to spoil in storage, and more susceptible to ear rots and other diseases which further deteriorate the quality. Some of these secondary diseases can be toxic to humans and animals that eat the corn. With profit margins very narrow in corn production, any economic loss due to corn borer in any of these ways can be devastating to the farmer's economic survival. I goes far beyond a little extra protein in the corn. Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research 111 East Washington Street Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 Phone: 217-762-2074 FAX: 217-762-8655 e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 3:59 PM To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1120 sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, June 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1120 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:28:13 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor Subject: Re: corn Does anyone know if corn borers are toxic or otherwise a health hazard? Or, besides raising the protein content of the corn minutely, is their only damage aesthetic (admittedly a major effect when faced by squeamish consumers)? BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 18:59:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA03798 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA25255 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:13:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA25239 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.134]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990630221232.MBSS2808@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:12:32 +0000 Message-ID: <377A962B.EE82E671@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:11:56 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1481 Using sewage sludge as a ''beneficial use'' is sludge disposal, plain and simple. If sewage sludge were kept separate from industrial wastes which are dumped down the drain and ends up at wastewater treatment works, that may be a different story. Certainly, the black and white newsprint and yard wastes can be composted. But, I suggest it is more environmentally friendly to use compost toilets than sewage treatment plants. But, that would put the Water Environment Federation (the wastewater treatment people) and companies such as Waste Management out of business. The 503 regulations were written to protect corporate profits in the U.S. --not public health. In the article entitled ''Nightmare Soil'' written by Joel Bleifuss and published IN OUR TIMES, the author writes: "Each year about 4 million metric tons of municipal sludge--about half of the total produced annually in the United States--are dumped on farm land. That sludge is derived chiefly from human excreta and from the water wastes of 130,000 industrial plants. Typically, municipal sludge contains PCBs, dangerous pesticides such as chlordane, chlorinated compounds such as dioxin, heavy metals such as arsenic and lead, viruses such as Hepatitis A, eggs of parasitic worms, etc. Cornell University's Toxic Chemical Laboratory recently tested 50 municipal sludges and found that two-thirds contained asbestos. 'You test it and you find so much-- dioxin, PCBs, DDT, asbestos--it's an endless list,' says Cornell toxicologist Donald Lisk. Urban sludge is a huge problem.' "In fact, according to the Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, of 30 municipal sludges analyzed in 1983, only seven were considered suitable for land application. The sludge from the other 23 plants contained elevated levels of one of more heavy metals, such as lead and cadmium. But that was using the older, more stringent standards." In 1984, according to Bleifuss, EPA began the linguistic detoxification of sewage sludge when it issued a beneficial sludge use and disposal policy that permitted the controlled use of treated sewage as fertilizer. In 1993, new regulations governing sludge policy were written into 'Part 503' of the Clean Water Act. "...EPA raised the acceptable exposure limits to some pollutants so that most of the nation's sludge could be classified as 'clean'..." For example, writes Bleifuss, "the new regulations increased the amount of lead that can be applied annually via fertilizer sludge from 111 pounds of lead per acre to 267 pounds per acre. The arsenic level was raised from 12.5 pounds per acre to 36 pounds per acre. The allowable amount of mercury jumped from 13.4 pounds per acre to 50 pounds per acre. And the amount of chromium permitted ballooned from 472 pounds per acre to 2,672 pounds per acre. In fact, under 503, sludge sold as fertilizer can be so contaminated with toxins that, according to the EPA, such sludge cannot be legally landfilled." Meanwhile, biotechnology is in the works to use crops which we normally eat, to clean up the metals which are being spread on agriculture as a ''beneficial use''. See the following article which is NO LONGER ONLINE, by Dr Janet Cotter-Howells [Telephone: 01224 272702/ e-mail: bot156@abdn.ac.uk] came initially from the URL of . I reproduce it here in its original form, as written by the author. ~Bunny Snow. **Certain plants have been identified that take up heavy metals in their various parts. Certain plants are tolerant to certain metals, whereas others will cause death. The problem is that waste sites are not contaminated with a single metal, but ususally a combination. ========================================================== Delicate yellow flowers unique to the Greek island of Lesbos have provided vital clues that could lead to the development of plants that will clean up contaminated soil. Andrew Smith and Ute Krmer from the Department of Plant Sciences at the University of Oxford and Janet Cotter-Howells of the University of Manchester (now at the University of Aberdeen) have discovered how the plant, Alyssum lesbiacum (Figure 1), mops up nickel. Armed with this knowledge, they hope to design plants that draw metals out of soil much more cheaply and cleanly than is possible with existing techniques. Figure 1. Alyssum Saxatile - a familiar relative of alyssum lesbiacum which hyperaccumulates nickel. Could saxatile be engineered to have similar properties? A. lesbiacum absorbs nickel very effectively from the soil, shuttling the metal upwards into its green tissues above ground. Like other 'hyperaccumulators', it absorbs levels of metal that would kill most other plants. Therefore these plants must employ a special mechanism for the uptake and storage of metals in a non-toxic form. No one knows why some plants accumulate metals instead of keeping them out. One theory is that the metals keep insect pests at bay by deterring them from feeding. But whatever the reason, hyperaccumulators could be very useful in cleanup operations, because they take metals out of the soil and store them in parts of the plant above ground. Metal-rich shoots and leaves could simply be harvested and disposed of, in landfill sites for example. It might even be possible to extract and recycle the metals. In research that could accelerate the development of these techniques, Smith and Krmer have discovered that A. lesbiacum mops up nickel using the amino acid histidine. Sap was sampled by collecting the exudate from de-topped plants. Analysis of the sap indicated that concentrations of the amino acid, histidine, were highly elevated, over ten-fold that of a related non-hyperaccumulator, Alyssum montanum. This suggested that histidine was the primary chelator of Ni. In collaboration with scientists at Daresbury, EXAFS was used to obtain information on the co-ordination chemistry of Ni (Figure 2). A distinct advantage of EXAFS is that it is a non-invasive technique, allowing fresh material to be analysed without any prior treatment. The experiments gave direct evidence that Ni binds to histidine in leaves, roots and sap of A. lesbiacum. Furthermore, EXAFS showed that Ni was bound to one of the N atoms within the histidine molecule. Nitrogen atoms in the amino acid carry spare electrons which they donate to the electron-hungry nickel ion, forming a strong bond as they do so. The nickel is then imprisoned inside the histidine's molecular cage. This is significant as it rules out binding of Ni to the sulphur of metallothioneins and low molecular weight peptides (phytochelatins) which were previously suggested to have an affinity for heavy metals. To their surprise, the researchers also found that the histidine roves freely in the plant's roots. Usually, histidine only functions as part of much larger biological molecules such as peptides or proteins. Figure 2. Extended X-ray absorption fine structure (EXAFS) analysis of nickel in xylem sap from A. lesbiacum. (a) Normalised oscillatory EXAFS amplitude (%), weighted by k3, plotted against the photoelectron wave vector (k). (b) Associated Fourier transform (R is the distance of scattering atoms from the primary absorber). Continuous lines are experimental data and broken lines the best theoretical fit. The group are now trying to track down the genes that orchestrate hyperaccumulation. The problem with all these hyperaccumulators is that they are slow-growing and could take many years to decontaminate a site. The process might be speeded up if the genes could be made to work in brassicas, including sprouts and cauliflowers (Figure 3), that grow fast and have plenty of foliage to soak up the metal. If the researchers find the genes responsible, they will try to transfer them into fast-growing plants that will decontaminate soils more quickly. Figure 3. Cauliflowers may be genetically engineered to hyperaccumulate heavy metals. Alan Baker, an ecologist from the University of Sheffield, is collaborating with Smith's team, tracking down plant species that hyperaccumulate metals other than nickel. The team is to begin work soon on plants from the copper-mining belt in southern Zaire that accumulate copper and cobalt. Another candidate is alpine penny-cress (Thlaspi caerulescens), a plant native to Britain that hyperaccumulates zinc. One problem that the researchers face is that polluted land is usually contaminated with several metals. Over 400 different hyperaccumulator species have been identified. Many of these plants will only be tolerant to one or two metals and will die through exposure to the rest. This suggests that different mechanisms exist for different metals. By understanding the genetic machinery controlling hyperaccumulation, Smith's team hopes to genetically engineer plants to survive this exposure, or to mop up several metals at once. Current studies are investigating the uptake and storage mechanisms of species that hyperaccumulate Cu, Zn, Pb and Co. Current decontaminating methods involved trapping the metals in the soil to make them harmless, or removing soil from the original site and exposing it to strong acids that leach out the metals. But the acids kill micro-organisms, leaving the soil barren and sterile. Also, the process costs as much as 1 million per hectare. Decontamination with plants could be much cheaper as well as being more environmentally friendly. ** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 19:06:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA03879 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA05451 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:29:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05398 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.134]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990630222917.MJPC2808@worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:29:17 +0000 Message-ID: <377A9A19.45A8DB6A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:28:41 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Elazar , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? References: <99Jun30.091559cdt.26883@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1482 Pat, It is sludge disposal and the USEPAregulations are of beneficial use to enterprises such as Waste Management and Water Environment Federation! Here is a web site that may be of interest to SANET members regarding the pathogens in sewage sludge: http://www.essential.org/cchw/nsa/nsa113.html Keep in mind that the US FDA is now mandating that various agricultural crops be irradiated and keeping in step with the detoxification terminology applied to sewage sludge (i.e. ''biosolids''), there are some in Congress who would like to label irradiation as electronic or cold pasteurization in order to misguide the public...and keep them ignorant! Tell me how concerned our government is about protecting public health or the natural environment!! Bunny Snow Pat Elazar wrote: > This originally came across on the Organic Gardening List pertaining to an > article in the Chicago Sun Times. (Sorry for the cross posting) I wanted to offer > the topic for discussion amongst SA-neters. Is this merely sludge disposal,or > nutrient recycling on an eco-shed scale? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 19:46:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA04450 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:46:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA29529 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:07:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA29424 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wclynx.com ([209.249.70.150]) by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with ESMTP id AAA108 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:07:27 -0700 Message-ID: <377AA26C.59D177B6@wclynx.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:04:12 -0700 From: Diane Cooner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: email charges Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DEF703C1D93383BC6A28AA5E" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1483 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DEF703C1D93383BC6A28AA5E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------DEF703C1D93383BC6A28AA5E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com ([198.81.17.71]) by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with ESMTP id AAA163 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:39:01 -0700 Received: from YLDRVRZ@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id tZCCa24185 (14449); Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:38:40 -0400 (EDT) From: YLDRVRZ@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:38:40 EDT Subject: Fwd: Fw: [Fwd: email charges] To: AMANI@wclynx.com, CAMPRNAMUK@aol.com, Gone4awhil@aol.com, kenenak@msn.com, newton@monitor.net, Qweanmom@aol.com, soccerdi@pacbell.net, FrannieZ@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_e6d81a17.24ab85f0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 --part1_e6d81a17.24ab85f0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit go here --part1_e6d81a17.24ab85f0_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v59.54) with SMTP; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:33:07 -0400 Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (vx) with SMTP; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:33:01 -0400 Received: from default (209-239-195-88.oak.jps.net [209.239.195.88]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA03848; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 06:32:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <017501bec2fd$5cecf4a0$27cbefd1@default> From: "Tom Meldau" To: "Shula Zuckerman" , "George Zastrow" , "Linda Mollenhauer-Meyskens" , "Joan McDaniels" , "Carl Inglin" , "Carroll Hirsch" , "Bruce Ferrigno" , "Mike Durham" , "Bob Clemens" , "Ralph David Christensen" , "Kia Abilay" Subject: Fw: [Fwd: email charges] Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 06:32:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 ->-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: email charges >Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:27:05 -0700 > > >>>Important message. Please read this and forward it to everyone on your e-mail list. >>>PROTEST!!! >>> CNN reported that in the next two weeks, Congress is going to vote on >>>allowing telephone companies to charge for Internet access. That means, >>>every time we send a long distance e-mail we will receive a long-distance >>>charge. This will get costly. Please visit the following web site AND >>>complain. Complain to your Congressman. Don't allow this to pass. > >>>http://www.house.gov/writerep > > >>> Pass this on to your friends. It is urgent! All of us have an interest in this one. >>>PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW TODAY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!! >>> > --part1_e6d81a17.24ab85f0_boundary-- --------------DEF703C1D93383BC6A28AA5E-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 20:07:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA04618 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA17183 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:37:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA17163 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28803 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1999 23:37:32 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-01.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.173) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1999 23:37:32 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990630193643.00967b20@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:37:14 -0400 To: Sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: email charges Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1484 Subject Re: email charges. Would everybody please ignore this? It ain't true. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 22:15:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA06311 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA04436 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:38:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA04431 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA05685; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:37:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-172.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.172) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005657; Wed Jun 30 20:37:27 1999 Message-ID: <001a01bec361$c98170a0$acf86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "ceres100" , , "John Lozier" Subject: Re: Help Wanted Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:33:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1485 I have given this some thought myself, senior volunteers. Mostly for the mutual benefit of they'd get to enjoy a farm, get back into gardening, probably teach us a thing or two and go home with a nice bunch of veggies, we the farmer would probably get a very dependable worker. Just didn't know the proper way to go about it. A sign at the senior center? Beth >Regarding your help wanted, I am not your man, but I wish you well. > >As for appropriateness of the post, I say it is okay, and it raises a >subject I've been thinking about for a while. That is on-farm senior >volunteers. I don't know tons of farmers, but I have come across two >interesting cases. The first was a guy in vegetable farming in the upper >potomac area, struggling against the odds, and saying that he was surviving >only with the help of a retired friend who just liked farming. The other >case is a farmer who has a friend, retired, I think, who shows up at >critical agricultural times and camps in his mobile home. With his wife, I >think. > >The point is that there are lots of ads and inquiries about "internships" >which seem directed mainly at young people who don't know much. It is >entirely appropriate to be looking for volunteers with good will who have >life experience and skills. > >Seeing as how the farmer himself might well be regarded as a volunteer, >given limited returns in many cases, the involvement of other volunteers is >fitting enough. > >Of course each volunteer would have to go into a situation with eyes open >and prepared to negotiate an acceptable and non-exploitive relationship. > >At 01:49 PM 6/29/99 -0400, ceres100 wrote: >> >>I hope this is not an inappropriate post for the list but I am really >>having >>trouble finding farm help and thought some of you may know someone who >>would be interested in this situation. >> >>My ad goes as follows: >>Free rent in exchange for part time work on a peaceful picturesque >>family farm with a focus on sustainable agriculture, conservation of >>heritage >>breeds of livestock, and simple living. Seeking a mature single adult >>with >>livestock handling and equipment operation/ maintenance skills. Must >>have >>own transportation. No drug or alcohol problems/dogs/live in guests. >>References >>required. >>Roy B. Davis >>Rt 1 Box 351 >>Weston, WV 26452 >>ceres100@earthlink.net >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 22:42:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA06637 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA14613 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:55:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA14593 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id JAA29859 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:44:39 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id KAA05066 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:17:51 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199907010217.KAA05066@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 01 Jul 99 09:06:58 Subject: sample contract To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1486 I am looking for a sample contract that farmers sign when they plant a genetically-engineered seed. I would prefer one that involves Bt corn and either Monsanto or Pioneer Hi-Bred (or both). We need the sample contract to show our own farmers in the Philippines what to expect from these companies who want to commercialize Bt corn in the Philippines. Roberto Verzola To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 23:31:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07764 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA18097 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:51:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA17978 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:55:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: goat cheese....dairy...Job Opportunity...perhaps you know som eone? Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:55:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1487 Please use contact information below: -----Original Message----- From: Holland Kensington [mailto:kii@best.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 4:10 PM To: aclark@nal.usda.gov Subject: goat cheese....dairy...Job Opportunity...perhaps you know someone? I am a recruiter working with my client to hire an Operations Manager. This is a Key position for this 20+ yr. old company; solid career opportunity....short term to General Manager / Vice President; view toward equity in the future; Experience with goat cheese / dairy; Location California. Excellent compensation / benefits; relocation assistance. If you know anyone who would be interested in considering this opportunity have them contact me. (No fee to candidate) Holland Kensington Kensington International 415-776-1509 email: kii@best.com if you have any ideas of other Directories, Associations, or sources for this professional; places I might look, I would appreciate your suggestions -- this will be an excellent opportunity for someone! Thanks! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jun 30 23:44:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07942 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA28608 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:09:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA28567 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:09:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA11334 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id zUXAa29808 (14425); Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1d1dd980.24ac3542@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:06:42 EDT Subject: Re: corn To: lrbulluc@unity.ncsu.edu, rdmacgregor@gov.pe.ca, sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1488 The Borer is different than the ear worm. The borer is the reason why some corn topples over, the worm having bored through the stalk. The ear worm is what you find on the sweet corn. In a message dated 6/30/99 11:30:37 AM Central Daylight Time, lrbulluc@unity.ncsu.edu writes: > Does anyone know if corn borers are toxic or otherwise a health hazard? Or, > besides raising the protein content of the corn minutely, is their only > damage aesthetic (admittedly a major effect when faced by squeamish consumers) > ? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 01:45:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA09368 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:45:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA08879 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:01:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA08741 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:01:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Cntraryfmr@aol.com Received: from Cntraryfmr@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id hPZOa20057 (4458); Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9206b959.24ac4fd6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 01:00:06 EDT Subject: Jacobs horn To: CartGoats-owner@onelist.com, DairyGoats@onelist.com, Holistic-Goats@onelist.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, wellpet@listservice.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 216 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1489 Hello, Thanks for your response. Jacob is doing much better. I think I was more upset about it than he was. I did take him to the vet just because I had to. He didn't do anything. He just said to take him home, clean it with peroxide and put some fly repellant on him. But at least he only charged me 12 dollars for the visit, and it made me feel better too. And jacob just loves to ride in the truck, he will sit in the front seat and BAAAAAAaA at all the passing cars, he is so funny, and all the people look at me like I am crazy. I had to leave him in the truck for a few minutes to go by the grocery to get the peroxide and had a crowd gathered when I got back, they all thought I had locked a baby in the car because they heard hinm crying for mama. But then they all thought he was agoat so I had to take him out and introduce him to everyone. But thanks for your help. I will keep you updated. Thanks again Marcus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 08:52:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12321 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA14857 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 06:55:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA14853 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 06:55:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18488 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 10:55:43 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-19.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.191) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 10:55:43 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990701063556.009a44b0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 06:55:21 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: RE: email charges In-Reply-To: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D8114@10.248.CABI.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1490 At 02:41 AM 7/1/1999 -0700, Anton Doroszenko wrote: >It may or may not be true in the US, but it certainly is true in Europe and >nearly everywhere outside the US. We have to pay for phone connection >charges to the internet and it costs a packet. Anton, you misunderstand the issue. There is an unfounded rumor that pops up from time to time to the effect that the government is about to levy a charge on individual e-mail messages, much as the postal service requires a stamp on letters. It is not true. Many people pay long-distance charges by the minute for Internet service in the United States. Until a local ISP started in my area 18 months ago, I paid 10 cents a minute to use AT&T's 800 number plus a 12-cent-a-minute surcharge from my local telephone service. Those who have so-called "budget" telephone service, which charges for local calls beyond a set number, also may pay for the local call when connecting to the Internet through their dial-up connections. >since no-one (?) in the US pays local call rates to connect to the >internet the temptation is to >stay logged on all day. Come 2 pm in Europe internet access slows down >markedly because the East Coast of the US is connecting to the internet in >the morning. There's no immediate solution for that. People tend to check their mail immediately upon arrival at the office, to see what's in store for the day. Simply being connected to one's ISP does not use up any bandwidth. You have to be actively browsing, downloading, or uploading to have any impact. Cass Peterson Flickerville Mountain Farm & Groundhog Ranch Specialty Produce and Flowers ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Nothing is easy. The best is worth the effort. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ www.flickerville.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 10:09:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13809 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:09:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA18850 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:43:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA18846 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JD1AJJNKXU000798@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:28:09 PDT Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 01 Jul 1999 03:34:50 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3B8TGY6P>; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 03:34:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 03:28:14 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: FW: Vote on Tomorrow's World To: "'Sustainable Agriculture List'" Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404E3D8119@10.248.CABI.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1491 Have you seen this? It looks like the pro-GM lobby is trying to hijack this poll. Novartis employees and GENTECH appear to be rallying support. > -----Original Message----- > From: randy.ratliff@CP.NOVARTIS.COM [SMTP:randy.ratliff@CP.NOVARTIS.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 9:23 PM > To: COTTON-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM > Subject: FW: Vote on Tomorrow's World > > Here is an opportunity to weigh in on the GM debate in Europe. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert [mailto:Robert@tiamat.sonnet.co.uk] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 3:36 PM > To: gentech@gen.free.de > Subject: Vote on Tomorrow's World > > The well know British science program Tomorrow's World is conducting a > poll > on whether or not people would eat a pizza made with lots of GM > ingredients. > You can cast a vote at; > http://www.bbc.co.uk/tw/ > > The results of the poll will be announced on the site on 7/July and > possibly > on television. > Regards > Robert > Robert@tiamat.sonnet.co.uk > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > The address for any administrative command like unsubscribe, subscribe or > help is: > GENTECH-REQUEST@gen.free.de > The searchable WWW list archive is available at > http://www.gene.ch/archives.html > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 12:00:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16622 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:00:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA05959 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:07:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05842 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA28932; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:05:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-175.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.175) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028818; Thu Jul 1 10:05:12 1999 Message-ID: <003801bec3d2$a37a43c0$aff86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Bob MacGregor" , , Subject: Re: corn Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:01:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1492 Only a guess, but I saw an entomologist on a PBS special, say as she was walking through the jungle "all bugs are edible" I wondered about the all bugs in that there must be a poisonous one somewhere. But I took her statement to mean any "ordinary" bug is edible. Which if one thinks about it is funny. We spray poisonous stuff on plants to rid them of a creature that is safely eaten. Of course some bugs eat the plant preventing them from growing, but the bugs themselves are probably edible. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Bob MacGregor To: kstoner@caes.state.ct.us ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu ; guldann@ix.netcom.com Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 11:35 AM Subject: Re: corn >Does anyone know if corn borers are toxic or otherwise a health hazard? Or, besides raising the protein content of the corn minutely, is their only damage aesthetic (admittedly a major effect when faced by squeamish consumers)? > >BOB > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 12:15:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17008 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA15473 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:22:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15420 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA01824; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:21:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-175.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.175) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001701; Thu Jul 1 10:20:48 1999 Message-ID: <004a01bec3d4$d1a224a0$aff86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Greg David" Subject: Re: is this accurate? Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:17:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1493 > We raise Scottish Highland Cattle and yes there are very easy to raise they are second only to Yaks in hardiness and their fur is so thick that often snow does not melt on it because their body heat does "leach" out to it. As for being the breed used by our forefathers to pull prairies schooners I'd tend to disagree, they don't like heat hence their success in being raised in the hills of Scotland (and New England) and their I would think unsucess in pulling wagons through deserts in the heat. I read in a book on oxen that no particular breed was favored over the other, but I would think probably not a long haired one like the highlands. Beth >Karen Kerr, a local farmer spoke about the benefits of raising heritage >animals and direct marketing to the public. A heritage animal is a breed of >animal that has been around for generations, but is in danger of going >extinct because they do not fit into high tech farming methods. They do >however have characteristics that our forefathers thought beneficial. Most >are very hardy, able to utilization a diet modern animals would find >difficult to use, and fit readily into a pasture based farming method. The >Scottish Highland Cattle she brought with her, are the leanest of cattle, >thrive with almost no graining and have a coat that protects them from all >but the severest of winter storms. They were the cattle the pioneers used to >pull the prairie schooners across the American frontier because of the >adaptability of their diet and their ability to be used as draft animals >once a final destination was reached. Kerr also raises Cotswool and Jacobs >sheep, Feighting goats and most notably Tamworth hogs. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 12:45:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17658 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA03504 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:49:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from musse.tninet.se (musse.tninet.se [195.100.94.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA03484 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21534 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 17:49:41 +0200 Received: from du156-149.ppp.algonet.se (HELO fujitsu) (195.100.149.156) by musse.tninet.se with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 17:49:41 +0200 Message-ID: <000901bec3d9$da017240$9c9564c3@fujitsu> From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?T=F8rk_Haxthausen?=" To: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:53:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEC3EA.9C4CE040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1494 Denne opdelte meddelelse er i MIME-format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEC3EA.9C4CE040 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01BEC3EA.9C4CE040" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01BEC3EA.9C4CE040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01BEC3EA.9C4CE040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA== ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEC3EA.9C4CE040-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 12:53:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17874 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14298 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:09:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA14286 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.116] (pa-ppp31.hevanet.com [204.119.60.116]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10407; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907011609.JAA10407@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:10:23 -0700 Subject: Re: From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: "T=?ISO-8859-1?B?+A==?=rk Haxthausen" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3013665027_364760_MIME_Part" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1495 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3013665027_364760_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable If your message was important, you should have put it in the letter - many of us wouldn't be able to open the file you sent, myself included. ---------- From: "T=F8rk Haxthausen" To: Date: Thu, Jul 1, 1999, 8:53 AM --MS_Mac_OE_3013665027_364760_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: <no subject> If your message was important, you should have put it in the letter - many = of us wouldn't be able to open the file you sent, myself included.
    ----------
    From: "T=F8rk Haxthausen" <tork@ebox.tninet.se>
    To: <sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu>
    Date: Thu, Jul 1, 1999, 8:53 AM


     

    --MS_Mac_OE_3013665027_364760_MIME_Part-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 14:19:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20423 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28257 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:25:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28242 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:29:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Organic vs. conventional raised poultry (RFI) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:29:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1496 Forwarding a message from Larry London RE: Organic vs. conventional raised poultry (RFI). Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:50:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry London X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: saadiahj@mardi.my Subject: Organic vs. conventional raised poultry (RFI) http://metalab.unc.edu/london InterGarden london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net There's the organic-chicken mailing list: To subscribe, just send an e-mail to organic-chicken-subscribe@egroups.com. "A blank email, no message, no subject is fine. We're a small group that discusses alternative, herbal, homeopathic and organic treatment/feeding of chickens." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:33:05 +0700 From: Dr Saadiah Jamli To: london@metalab.unc.edu Dear Sir, I am to embark on a research on organic poultry. If you have had an experience or have knowledge on organic poultry farming, could you possibly tell me the difference in meat quality, residues, meat composition and other lab analysis results etc. between organic and non-organic poultry and other species else well. If you have contact regarding the above, is it possible that I get their e-mail? Hope to hear from you soon and regards, Saadiah Jamli, D.V.M. e-mail: saadiahj@mardi.my Tel: 603-943 7337 Fax: 603-848 5053 Correspondence: Livestock Research Centre Malaysian Agricultural Research and Development Institute (MARDI) P.O Box 12301 50774 Kuala Lumpur To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 14:27:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20685 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA06230 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:38:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA06226 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool0555.cvx2-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.136.45]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id 3C3GWR3Y; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:37:07 -0400 Message-ID: <377BAA8B.EE08B439@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:51:08 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: swa@btl.net, Sanet Subject: Re: Jennifer Maynard wrote References: <772763A1EF3.AAA24CF@wgs1.btl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1497 Here is Jennifer Maynard's email Jennifer Maynard Phil To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 14:30:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20811 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07107 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:40:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from m3.boston.juno.com (m3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.198]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07047 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rick.welsh@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EEF7CE3C; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 13:36:12 EDT To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:13:56 -0400 Subject: termites Message-ID: <19990701.133052.-3175243.0.rick.welsh@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-10 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Rick Welsh Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1498 Does anyone know what type of termiticides are used when a house is "tented"? Do they use heterocyclic OPs or something else? Also, is there any regional variation in the substance used? I am interested in common practice in southern Florida. Thanks in advance. Rick Welsh Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, Suite 117,Greenbelt, MD 20770 USA p: 301-441-8777; f: 301-220-0164 e-mail: rick.welsh@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 14:35:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA20904 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08964 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:43:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA08920 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id MAA10881; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:43:23 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma008453; Thu, 1 Jul 99 12:41:56 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:41:56 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDDD@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=27T=F8rk_Haxthausen=27?= , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:41:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA08932 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1499 Tork, Please don't send word documents as attachements to Sanet messages. I am afraid to open things like this. Just put the text into the mail message. Dale Wilson -----Original Message----- From: Trk Haxthausen [mailto:tork@ebox.tninet.se] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 10:53 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 14:57:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA21697 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA24147 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:07:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host01.color-country.net (host01.color-country.net [209.63.214.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA24059 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from color-country.net (asy07.gw03.color-country.net [209.63.214.107]) by host01.color-country.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA19929; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:04:05 -0600 Message-ID: <377BAE1A.FF5D97C9@color-country.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:06:18 -0600 From: Dan Rice X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Hook , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: corn borers/insect toxicity References: <003801bec3d2$a37a43c0$aff86ed1@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1500 Hi Dan: I can't speak to the corn borer itself, but as to the "all bugs are edible" statement, that sounds dubious. One example I can think of is the blister beetle, which affects alfalfa producers. It is not so much a pest of alfalfa itself, but if a horse eats alfalfa containing dead or live beetles, it may develop cantharidiasis poisining and die. According to a Kansas State Univ. entomology leaflet, "Blister beetles contain a substance called cantharidin. This chemical is an irritant capable of blistering internal and external body tissues exposed to the chemical. Livestock most frequently come into contact with blister beetles as they consume alfalfa hay containing the dead beetles. Horses are especially susceptible..." Doesn't say anything about toxicity to humans, but I wouldn't want to try one. And what about the well-known "unpalatibility" of Monarch butterflies to birds because of the compounds developed from the larvae eating milkweed? Do they just taste bad or are they also toxic? Surely there must be other examples. The world is too varied for such simplicity as "all bugs are edible..." Then again, your PBS entomologist may have been referring to "true bugs", which are insects in the order Hemiptera (squash bugs, lygus bugs, minute pirate bugs, etc.). People (in particular entomologists) should be more careful about throwing the term "bug" around, when they really mean "insect". Use of the terms interchangeably can be very confusing... EW in Southern Utah Dan Hook wrote: > Only a guess, but I saw an entomologist on a PBS special, say as she was > walking through the jungle "all bugs are edible" I wondered about the all > bugs in that there must be a poisonous one somewhere. But I took her > statement to mean any "ordinary" bug is edible. Which if one thinks about > it is funny. We spray poisonous stuff on plants to rid them of a creature > that is safely eaten. Of course some bugs eat the plant preventing them > from growing, but the bugs themselves are probably edible. Beth > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob MacGregor > To: kstoner@caes.state.ct.us ; > sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu ; guldann@ix.netcom.com > > Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: corn > > >Does anyone know if corn borers are toxic or otherwise a health hazard? > Or, besides raising the protein content of the corn minutely, is their only > damage aesthetic (admittedly a major effect when faced by squeamish > consumers)? > > > >BOB > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 15:03:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21832 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA26373 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:09:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA26358 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:09:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Bagelhole1@aol.com Received: from Bagelhole1@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 7EQDa27391 (7990) for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5fa6086f.24ad08ab@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:08:43 EDT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1122 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1501 Hi, I am beginning to start the work on making my home a model of low-tech sustainability in an urban (San Francisco) environment. What I am starting may be good for students to also do. Its incorporating fish farming with vegetable growing inside a low-cost greenhouse. We are digging a long trench about 3 feet deep 3feet wide for the fish and a separation for the fingerlings. A solar pump will pump the fish water to tubes that will soak the root balls of the plants suspended in cups held by vertical structures and back to the fish (oxygenated and cleaned). I hope to feed the fish worms from the composting toilet, which I also hope to build soon. I have no experience doing this, though I have talked to Anna Edey who has seen this in N. Carolina and has experience with greenhouses (see book Solviva), and others. Wish me luck and feel free to send me any advise you may have, thanks. Tom Osher http://bagelhole.hypermart.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 15:03:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21848 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA27096 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:11:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27071 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990701181144.JVXR17489.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:11:44 -0700 Message-ID: <377BB017.48F3598B@home.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 11:14:47 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1123 References: <199907011550.LAA03618@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1502 what the heck is this????????AAAAAAAAUwIAAAIBAADgAAAA > AAAAAOAAAAAAAAAA4AAAAAAAAADgAAAAAAAAAOAAAAAAAAAA4AAAAAAAAADgAAAAAAAAAOAAAAAA > AAAAGAIAAAIAAAAaAgAAAAAAABoCAAAAAAAAGgIAAAAAAAAaAgAAAAAAABoCAAAAAAAAGgIAACQA > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Jul 1 09:43:17 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13225 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA12681 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 07:37:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA12467; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 07:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22516; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12158; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 03:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 02:49:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.pointer X-Conference: panna.pointer From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Resource Pointer #212 To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 79 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1504 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Resource Pointer #212 June 30, 1999 For copies of the following resources, please contact the appropriate publishers or organizations directly. *Greenpeace International's Genetic Engineering Campaign Website* http://www.greenpeace.org/~geneng Provides information on genetically engineered food, artificial organisms, patents on life, and biosafety protocol. Includes press releases and updates on recent events with links to official documents and other related texts. *Against the Grain: Biotechnology and the Corporate Takeover of Your Food, 1999* Video. Britt Bailey and Marc Lappi. Introduces scientific, political, and economic concerns about genetic engineering of crops. Discusses corporate control of genetic resources, implications for food security, popular resistance to genetic engineering of crops and more. Includes three page summary of 160 pp. book by the same name. 13 minutes. Individuals/nonprofits US$29.95, schools/libraries/corporations US$59.95. Contact The Video Project, 200 Estates Dr., Ben Lomond, CA 95005, phone (800) 4planet, fax (831) 336-2168, email videoproject@videoproject.org, website http://www.videoproject.org *Food for Thought, 1999* Video. Ed Schehl and Katherine Knight. Explores ethical problems, consumer choice and labeling issues, patenting and ownership and other concerns related to genetic engineering of crops. Features interviews with PANNA's Monica Moore, organic farmers and others. 30 minutes. Individuals/nonprofits US$29.95, schools/libraries/corporations US$69.95. Contact The Video Project, 200 Estates Dr., Ben Lomond, CA 95005, phone 800-4planet, fax 831-336-2168, email videoproject@videoproject.org, website http://www.videoproject.org *Farmageddon: Food and the Culture of Biotechnology, 1999* Brewster Keen. Critiques philosophy underlying genetic engineering in agriculture. Chapters cover individual crops, milk production, regulatory policy in Canada, popular resistance to genetic engineering and more. Includes appendix explaining basic science of genetic engineering. 240 pp. US$16.95, Can$19.95. Contact New Society Publishers, P.O. Box 189, Gabriola Island, BC VOR 1XO, Canada, website http://www.newsociety.com *Say No to Genetically Engineered Food, 1998* Provides detailed information on ecological, health, ethical, and socioeconomic concerns associated with genetically engineered foods. Discusses worldwide nutrition needs, impacts on women, intellectual property rights, and more. Covers opposition to genetic engineering in Asia, Europe, and US. Available as part of Safe Food Campaign Kit including two fact sheets, bibliography, and poster. US$15. 110 pp. Contact Pesticide Action Network (PAN) Asia and the Pacific, P.O. Box 1170, 10850 Penang, Malaysia, phone (604) 657-271 or 656-0381, fax (604) 657- 7445, email panap@panap.po.my, website http://www.poptel.org.uk/panap We encourage those interested in having resources listed in the PANUPS Resource Pointer to send review copies of publications, videos or other resources to our office. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Jun 23 11:08:01 1999 -0400 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA16073 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:62731 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165252-279>; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:57:53 -0400 Received: from web.net ([192.139.37.21]:2090 "EHLO web.net" ident: "root") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with ESMTP id <165252-280> convert rfc822-to-8bit; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:56:41 -0400 Received: from gallo.dsuper.net(ts15-03.mtl.istar.ca[198.53.14.226]) (30736 bytes) by web.net via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_hosts/T:inet_zone_bind_smtp (sender: ) id for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:56:38 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.103 1998-Oct-9 #1 built 1998-Oct-22) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:54:32 -0300 Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: Gary Gallon To: unlisted-recipients:; (no To-header on input) Subject: Wet and Wild Weather's Relation to Global Warming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Sender: cibe@pop.web.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1505 GALLON ENVIRONMENT LETTER Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment Institut Canadien du Commerce et de lenvironnement 506 Victoria Ave., Montreal, Quebec H3Y 2R5 Ph. (514) 369 0230, Fax (514) 369 3282 Email cibe@web.net Vol. 3, No. 16, June 5, 1999 ************************************************************************** INTERNATIONAL INTERNATIONAL INTERNATIONAL ************************************************************************** WET AND WILD CLIMATE CHANGE CAUSED BY GLOBAL WARMING Maybe it is time the oil companies and the coal energy operations should begin to understand their responsibility. Their greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions are responsible for not only raising global temperatures but for the unusual extreme weather system changes and wetter weather in the northern hemisphere. Recent studies from scientists can explain the action of upper atmosphere winds and find their changes closely linked to global warming. This is according to a team of scientists from Columbia University along with Drew Shindell, an atmospheric scientist from NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, using computer simulations. They found that the large winter warming that has occurred in the Northern Hemisphere over the last 30 years is likely a result of human activities that increase greenhouse gases. They found that GHG warmer winters will bring more wet weather to Europe and Western North America, Shindell said, with Western Europe the worst hit by storms coming off the Atlantic. Their research report, published in the June 3, 1999 issue of the British journal "Nature," projects a continuation of the current trend for the next 30 to 50 years. They confirmed that the global mean surface temperatures have increased in the range of 0.6 to 1.2F since the late 19th century. But far more severe warming has taken place over wide regions of northern Eurasia, Canada and Alaska, with temperatures averaging 7 to 10F warmer in the last 35 years, according to data previously compiled by the NASA's Goddard Institute. For the complete story go to website http://ens.lycos.com/ens/ *********************************************************** EUROPE USING TOUGH GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION MEASURES TO CREATE COMPETITIVE ECONOMIC ADVANTAGE While Canada and the United States experiment with voluntary measures and go slow on climate change, countries in Europe are taking a much stronger environmental stand. They are using a mixture of taxes, fiscal incentives, and regulations to drive innovation in new technologies and a competitive advantage in the world economy. Canada, once a leader in environmental technologies, will soon be buying technologies from Europe. Canada and the U.S. for that matter, will be losing their competitive advantage in the growing alternative energy and energy efficiency technologies and processes market. The European branch of the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) has issued a study which shows that an energy tax and renewable energy technology to tackle global warming will stimulate technological innovation and demand for European produced goods, and would cut unemployment across the European Union. The study released at the meeting of European Union leaders in Cologne, Germany, who were there to discuss the issue of a jobs strategy and climate change, is entitled, "A Review of Employment Effects of European Union Policies and Measures for CO2 Emission Reductions." It was commissioned by WWF and conducted by the Fraunhofer Institute for Systems and Innovation Research, Karlsruhe, Germany. It was written by Dr. Rainer Walz, Dr. Joachim Schleich, Regina Betz and Carsten Nathani. The report cites research that suggests up to 1.9 million jobs across the European Union could be created by an energy tax. The Fraunhofer Institute study looks at the costs and benefits of measures to tackle global warming greater efficiency in manufacturing processes, combined generation of heat and power, renewable energy technologies, energy efficient domestic appliances, better insulation for buildings and improved fuel economy for cars. Researchers concluded that all measures would boost employment. You can get the report at the WWF website http://www.panda.org/home.cfm ********************************************************************** A WORLDWIDE US $20 BILLION INVESTMENT IN WIND POWER WILL TRIPLE WIND ELECTRICITY ECONOMIC ACTIVITY OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS Global wind power capacity will more than triple over the five years to 2003, the Danish wind energy consultancy BTM Consult ApS forecasted. Installed capacity was just 10,000 megawatts (MW) at the end of 1998, but it is expected to soar to 21,000 MW by 2003. The consultancy said there were plans for large off shore windmills and that Europe would remain the main growth region for windmill sales. "The sales value of coming...wind power installations amounts to some US $20 billion. Denmark is taking a competitive advantage lead over Canada and other countries in windmill turbine technology, design and manufacturing in the world move to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The industry leaders include Denmarks Vestas Co. and NEG Micon Inc. NEG Micon`s 1998 gross revenues were 3.02 billion Danish Crowns. Vestas projected a 30 to 35% increase in 1999 revenues from last year`s 2.83 billion crowns. The Danish windmill turbine makers` main competitors in Europe were German and Spanish companies. Source, Reuters 'World Environment News' headlines. Planet Ark website http://www.planetark.org/news/ ****************************************************************** U.S. PRESIDENT CLINTON ORDERS GOVERNMENT TO REDUCE GHG EMISSIONS President Clinton issued an executive order this week directing his own federal agencies to reduce their energy consumption by 35% from 1985 levels by 2010. This was done after the Republicans, backed by the oil and coal industry, have blocked Clintons efforts to endorse Kyoto and apply greenhouse gas emission reductions throughout the United States. Clinton reports that better conservation on the part of the nation's biggest energy user would not only reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but will save taxpayers an estimated $750 million per year in oil, gas and coal energy consumption, and reduce emissions of GHGs. The order does not apply to energy used for the military or for transportation. Source of basic information, New York Times, "Federal Agencies Told to Lower Energy Use.", June 4, 1999. For more information visit the website http://www.caddetee.org/ ********************************************************************* NEW UN CLIMATE WEBSITE The secretariat of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) has been on the World Wide Web since 1995. This new "third generation" website, http//www.unfccc.de, updates and consolidates information from the previous sites and adds several new features and resources. Information on the site is now more streamlined making it easier and quicker to locate information. Moreover, the secretariat has upgraded its Internet connection from 128Kbs to 2Mbs in order to handle the 1,000,000-plus hits it receives each month. The site provides Parties, representatives of observer organisations and others interested in the UNFCCC process, with a one-stop source of news, data, information and documents. Information is organised under seven main headings What's New, The Secretariat, Programmes, Resources, Sessions, News Room and Site Information. For more information, visit the site or contact, Kevin Grose, Information Support Subprogramme, UNFCCC, POB 260 124, D-53153, Bonn, Germany. Tel. (49 228) 815-1528, Fax. (49 228) 815-1999, Email kgrose@unfccc.de Website http://www.unfccc.de ***************************************************************** SPAIN BLOCKS EUROPEAN BID TO APPLY CARBON TAX Progress on an energy tax for the European Union (EU) is being blocked by Spain. On May 25, Spain blocked efforts by the Germany EU presidency to push ahead with plans to extend EUwide minimum levels of energy tax raising doubts over the future of the proposal. Spain's state secretary for economic affairs, Cristbal Montoro, told a meeting of finance ministers that the very principle of expanding EUwide energy tax levels was unacceptable. Source Environment News Service (ENS) 1999. ****************************************************************** URBAN SPRAWL BAD FOR THE ECONOMY It might be good for strip mall builders and suburban home builders, but it is not good economic sense for the whole of the business community and for the municipalities that have to provide the water, sewage and electricity infrastructure. A number of American business leaders are beginning to recognize that sprawl can raise the cost of doing business and reduce long- term profitability. This is a key finding of a new study entitled, "Profiles of Business Leadership on Smart Growth, New Partnerships Demonstrate the Economic Benefits of Reducing Sprawl," which will be released June 14, 1999 in Washington, D.C. A roundtable discussion will be held on the issue in Washington, D.C. Monday, 10:30 am to 12:30 pm, June 14, 1999, at the Hotel Washington, located at 515 15th Street, NW, Washington, DC Roundtable participants will include executives from the Bank of America, Consumers Energy, DaimlerChrysler, Deere & Company, Electric Power Research Institute, and Interface, Inc. The meeting will feature U.S. EPA Administrator Carol Browner. For a copy of the report, or to attend the roundtable contact NALGEP at ph. (202) 638-6254, or go to website http://www.nalgep.org ************************************************************** GOVERNMENT OF BRAZIL COOPERATES WITH GREENPEACE TO SAVE AMAZON RAIN FOREST Brazils President Fernando Henrique Cardoso and Brazils Environment Minister, Jose Sarney Filho, met with Thilo Bode, Executive Director of Greenpeace International in the federal capital Brasilia. In a unprecedented move, the nation and the radical environment group are launching a campaign to save the Amazon rainforest, both for its biodiversity and for its future economic value to the Brazilian economy. The campaign to protect the future economic sustainable values of the Amazon rainforest will be one of Greenpeace's and the Government of Brazils top priorities going into the next Millennium. According to the Brazilian government 80 percent of all logged timber in the Amazon is illegal. Sarney detailed government plans to send army, navy and air force units into the Amazon River rainforest in its most aggressive attack yet on illegal loggers. As recently as 1970, 99 percent of the Amazon remained intact. Today, the Brazilian government estimates that 14 percent of the Brazilian Amazon, an area about the size of France has been deforested. During the last four years, an area the size of the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg combined has been lost. Greenpeace has offered its research and information capabilities to cooperate with the Brazilian government. Greenpeace produced a recent report entitled, "Facing Destruction: A Greenpeace Briefing on the Timber Industry in the Brazilian Amazon." It identifies 2,500 logging companies and sawmills, most of them illegal and not providing taxes or income to the nation, as they strip it of its valuable forest resources. The report identifies 26 foreign owned transnational companies which are now operating in the Amazon. Environment News Service (ENS) 1999. All Rights Reserved. For the complete story go to website http://ens.lycos.com/ens/ ************************************************************ MTBE IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT, A WORKSHOP IN LONDON Imperial College, London is hosting a one day experts workshop June 8, 1999, on the environmental dangers of MTBE, particularly in groundwater. The workshop is being held in collaboration with Komex International and with sponsorship from the U.K. Environment Agency. The workshop will explore the current state of knowledge about MTBE, in terms of its potential health risks, likely impact on groundwater, its ultimate fate and its transport properties. Methyl tertiarybutyl ether (MTBE) has been added to motor fuels since the early 1980s and in recent years legislation on air quality has resulted in its increased use. However, in addition to its unpleasant taste and odour, there are increasing concerns over possible health risks associated with the presence of MTBE in drinking water. A combination of high solubility, poor sorption properties and very low rates of intrinsic degradation means that MTBE is extremely mobile in groundwater and releases of MTBE from underground storage tanks and other point sources are likely to pose a future contamination threat for groundwater. A recent US survey reported MTBE to be the second most common contaminant in shallow urban aquifers in the US. For information contact, Sally Verkaik, Centre for Continuing Education, Imperial College, Room 526 Sherfield Building, Exhibition Road, London SW7 2AZ, Tel: +44 (0) 171 594 6882, Fax: +44 (0)171 594 6883, Email s.verkaik@ic.ac.uk *********************************************************************** STEEL INDUSTRY IN THE U.S. FOCUS OF NEEDED ENVIRONMENTAL CLEAN UP A new national pollution prevention performance ranking of integrated iron and steel mills by the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF) indicates that mills in Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, and Ohio rank among the worst third of facilities in the US for pollution prevention. EDF urges these plants to do more to prevent pollution. The integrated iron and steel mills that ranked among the worst third of facilities in the US based on 1996 pollution data are USX/US Steel in Gary, IN, Ispat Inland Steel in East Chicago, Indiana, National Steel in Granite City, Illinois, Bethlehem Steel in Sparrows Point, Maryland, LTV Steel in Cleveland, Ohio, and AK Steel in Middletown, Ohio. Of the nation's 14 other integrated iron and steel mills, four mills, LTV Steel in East Chicago, Indiana, Arkansas, Steel in Ashland, Kentucky, USS/Kobe Steel in Lorain, Ohio, and Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel in Steubenville, Ohio, reported data that were so unreliable they could not be ranked. The integrated iron and steel mill rankings is a powerful tool for facility neighbors to forge a dialogue with industry. For example, Ispat Inland Steel in East Chicago, Indiana, for example, put an advanced coke making process in place in 1998, so EDF expects Inland's pollution prevention performance to improve. This plant ranked in the worst third of plants in the nation in 1996. The federal government needs to create the appropriate set of incentives and regulatory changes to facilitate more such upgrades nationwide. While many mills do not report complete and accurate pollution information, four mills provided such poor data that EDF was unable to judge their pollution prevention performance. The integrated iron and steel mill rankings can be found on the new EDF Iron and Steel Community Guide website http://www.edf.org/communityguides ********************************************************************* PACIFIC CONFERENCE ON ENVIRONMENTAL AND RESOURCE ECONOMICS HELD MAY 21 TO 22, 1999 Obtain the proceedings from the Pacific Northwest Conference on Environmental and Resource Economics, held May 21 and 22, 1999, at the Eugene Hilton, in Eugene, Oregon. It was sponsored by The Mikesell Center for Environmental and Resource Economics, Department of Economics, University of Oregon. Subjects included "Selecting Biological Reserves Cost Effectively" and "Pricing Biodiversity". Andrea Maechler, from the University of California at Santa Cruz, presented a paper on, "Can a Cleaner Environment be Good for Business?" Sally Hays from the University of Oregon, spoke on "Eco-Labeling and Coordination Failures". Contact "Georgette G. Winther at email gwinther@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU ********************************************************* THE U.S. COMMITS $200 MILLION TO CLEAN WATER More than US $200 million has been budgeted for clean water improvements in rural communities in 44 states and Puerto Rico. The amount is the largest single announcement for rural wastewater projects in the US Dept of Agricultures history. About $155 million will come in the form of loans and grants from USDA. An additional $52.4 million will come from other public and private sources. ``Many of us take the luxury of clean and safe drinking water and adequate waste disposal for granted,'' Dan Glickman said. ``Even as we approach the year 2000, more than 2.3 million rural Americans live in homes without safe running water or no pipes running in it at all.'' The grants and loans will be used primarily to improve wastewater systems. **************************************************************** EUROPEAN AUTO INDUSTRY VOLUNTARILY AGREES TO CUT AUTO EMISSIONS 25% The European Commission endorsed an offer by the European auto industry to voluntarily cut carbon dioxide (CO2) pollution from cars by about 25% by reducing fuel consumption. The deal, reached after European Union governments threatened to impose legally- binding pollution limits on vehicle manufacturers, commits members of the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (ACEA) to cutting the amount of CO2 in exhaust fumes to an average 140 grams per km by 2008. The Commission said the current average in the 15-nation EU was 186g CO2/km in 1995. The deal will oblige car makers to reduce the average fuel consumption of their fleet to six litres per 100 kilometres for petrol engines and 5.3 litres per 100km for diesel vehicles. Source, Harald Agerley, Skovbrynet 16 - DK 6400 Sonderborg, Denmark, Ph. +45 74426313, email agerley@post4.tele.dk ************************************************************** CLEANER CARS IN U.S. BUT DIRTIER PRODUCTION PLANTS? Some of the world's most fuel-efficient cars are made in the dirtiest U.S. factories, says a new report by the Center for Economic Priorities. For example, Honda and Mitsubishi, makers of top-rated fuel-efficient cars, were the worst overall polluters. Mitsubishi generated 21.6 pounds of toxic emissions per vehicle produced at its Normal, IllInois, plant, according to the report, "The Worst and Best Auto & Tire Companies." That's more than four times the emissions of Chrysler's eight U.S. facilities, which rated cleanest. For more details contact, CEP, 30 Irving Place., New York, NY 10003; ph. 212- 420- 1133; fax 212-420-0988, Website http://www.cepnyc.org ******************************************************************* GENERAL MOTORS TAKES STEPS TO RECYCLE MATERIALS FROM CARS General Motors signed a US$1 billion deal to buy recycled aluminum. Under the agreement, GM will buy about 2 billion pounds of recycled aluminum from Imco Recycling Inc. over 13 years. The recycling operation will be "a perfect loop" because a quarter or more of the scrap headed for the Imco plant will come from GM. The auto maker said it expects the aluminum content of its vehicles to rise 7% annually. Another new GM initiative will recycle used industrial oil and wastewater contaminated during manufacturing. The program will recycle more than 15 million gallons of such fluids annually, and will ultimately reclaim about 5 million gallons of oil. GM will partner with Safety-Kleen to re-refine hydraulic fluids, gear oils, and lubricants. The fluids and oils will be returned to GM for reuse as maintenance lubricants and metal-removal fluids. Source, For more information, contact, Tilden Press Inc., 1519 Connecticut Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20036, ph. 202- 332- 1700, fax 202- 332- 3028 (fax), email gbl@greenbiz.com, website http://www.greenbiz.com *************************************************************** ALASKAN CONFERENCE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND THE ENVIRONMENT, JULY 22, 1999 The Alaska Conservation Alliance and the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association are co-sponsoring a conference entitled, "Can the Last Frontier Have a Sustainable Future?" The conference will be held July 22, 1999 in Anchorage. The purpose of the conference is to elicit credible, creative ideas to help build a prosperous, sustainable future for the long-term based on economic activities that do not degrade or too quickly deplete our natural assets. One of Alaska's urgent challenges is to achieve a healthy economy and high quality of life based on the sustainable use of the state's abundant natural resources, particularly those that are publicly-owned. Doing so requires balancing the investment, use and management of all of our assets, including, Financial capital, Natural capital (clean air and water, fish, wildlife, forest, mineral and petroleum resources); and human capital (accumulated knowledge, skills, technology, education). For additional information, contact Kay Brown, Executive Director, Alaska Conservation Alliance, 750 W. 2nd Ave., Suite 109, Anchorage, Alaska 99501, ph. (907) 258-6174, fax (907) 258-6177, email kay@akvoice.org ************************************************************** CANADA CANADA CANADA CANADA ************************************************************** DAVID RUNNALLS NEW PRESIDENT OF IISD Jim MacNeill, Chairman of the Board of the International Institute for Sustainable Development (IISD), announced the appointment of David Runnalls as President and CEO of the Winnipegbased Institute. Runnalls, a Canadian, has had a strong 27 year history in the environment, starting with his work for the 1972 UN Stockholm Conference on the Environment. Following the conference he helped world renown development economist Barbara Ward establish the International Institute for Environment and Development (IIED) based in London, U.K. After working in the London office for seven years, in 1981 he moved to Washington where he made IIED's North American office into one of the premier players in the international environment arena in the United States. He returned to Canada in 1988 where he helped to create the Environment Program at the Institute for Research on Public Policy. He left IRPP in 1993 to become a Senior Fellow of IISD and Senior Adviser to both the President of the International Development Research Centre and the Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme. For further information, visit the IISD website at http://iisd.ca/ or contact Lael Dyck, Office of the President, at Ph. (204) 9587707. ****************************************************************** POSSIBLE NEW ENVIRONMENT AGENDA FOR NEW ONTARIO GOVERNMENT The Recycling Council of Ontario (RCO) reports in its latest newsletter that, with the return of a majority PC government for a second term and the promise of an ambitious new agenda, the environment community looks forward to an announcement about the Waste Diversion Organization in the near future. In addition, the governments Blueprint spells out its plans to introduce Canadas toughest environmental penalties and strongest enforcement to Ontario. This will be accomplished, according to the Blueprint, with the doubling of maximum penalties for corporate environmental law breakers, the creation of an environmental SWAT team at the Ministry of the Environment to audit industries and make sure they are obeying the rules, the combining of the current patchwork quilt of laws that protect the environment into one clear, comprehensive and easily enforced set of environmental laws and the establishment of a tollfree Pollution Hotline so that citizens can report acts of pollution. Visit the Ontario Ministry of the Environment website at http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/ Also visit the RCO website at http://www.rco.on.ca/ ***************************************************************** LETTER TO THE EDITOR CORRECT THE RECORD ON PERT EMISSIONS TRADING To the Editor of the Gallon Report, In her recent report to the Legislature, Ontario Environment Commissioner Eva Legeti wrote that emission trading as a tool for pollution reduction requires transparency and accountability measures. In the May 3, 1999, edition of the Gallon Report, it was incorrectly stated that the Commissioner wrote that these attributes were lacking in the Pilot Emission Reduction Trading (PERT) Program. Thank you for allowing us to correct the record. If you have any question about PERT please feel free to call me at the number below. Sincerely, Betty Rozendaal, Chair, PERT Pilot, Senior Policy Advisor, Union Gas Ltd., 200 Yorkland Blvd., Toronto, Ontario M2J 5C6, Tel. (416) 496- 5205 ****************************************************************** UNEP INTERNATIONAL DECLARATION ON CLEANER PRODUCTION, CANADA TO HOST NEXT HIGH LEVEL MEETING On April 23, 1999, Ministers of the Environment and other global environment leaders signed the UNEP International Declaration on Cleaner Production at the ongoing session of the UN Commission on Sustainable Development. "Their signatures formalize their countries' commitment to the preventive environmental management strategy of cleaner production", said Klaus Toepfer, Executive Director of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP). At its launch at UNEP's Fifth International High-level Seminar on Cleaner Production in October 1998, in the Republic of Korea, the Declaration attained 67 inaugural signatories. Since then, over 1800 signatures have been received at various international signing ceremonies. "We are extremely pleased at the results the Declaration has achieved since the Korea launch", says Mr. Toepfer. The Environment Minister of Canada, Ms Christine Stewart, upon signing the Declaration, announced that Canada will host the 6th High-level UNEP Cleaner Production Conference in the year 2000. "We look forward to sharing our experiences with successful pollution prevention measures with the international environmental community", said Minister Stewart. For further information, please contact, the Division of Technology, Industry and Economics Division Office, Tour Mirabeau, 39-43 Quai Andre Citroen, 75739 Paris - Cedex 15, France Tel. +33 1 44 37 14 50; Fax +331 44 37 14 74 E-mail unepie@unep.fr Website http://www.unepie.org ************************************************************* ******************************************** *************************************************************** $180.90 ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION TO THE GALLON ENVIRONMENT LETTER Subscribe to "The Gallon Environment Letter". The 8 to 10 page newsletter is loaded with up to date business and policy information that your company, government agency, or organization can use immediately. It is provided twice a month. It is also accompanied by the "Green Jobs Available Report" that is sent to you once a month. Subscribe now. Send a cheque for $180.90 a year ($169.00+ $11.90 GST) and help finance the research that delivers inside information and breaking news on environment business in Canada and the world. Make your cheque out to, "Gallon Letter", 506 Victoria Ave., Montreal, Quebec, H3Y 2R5. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Copyright (c) 1999 Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment, Montreal All rights reserved. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Jun 23 21:14:25 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA01135 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA29493 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA29032; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:30:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA09757; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03261; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:42:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.pointer X-Conference: panna.pointer From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Resource Pointer #211 To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 87 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1506 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Resource Pointer #211 June 23, 1999 For copies of the following resources, please contact the appropriate publishers or organizations directly. *UCSC Farm and Garden Apprenticeship, April 17-October 20, 2000, Santa Cruz, CA* Six-month training course in organic gardening and farming sponsored by the Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems, University of California, Santa Cruz. Emphasizes hands-on learning, working side-by-side with instructors, and class instruction on organic horticultural methods. Covers soil preparation, composting, sowing, cultivation, propagation, irrigation, pest/disease control and marketing through a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) project. US$3,000 plus additional costs for books, tools and food. Apply by September 1 (international applicants), November 1 (U.S. and Canadian citizens). Contact Apprenticeship Information, The Center for Agroecology, UC Santa Cruz, 1156 High St., Santa Cruz, CA 95064; phone (831) 459-2321; fax (831) 459-2799; email annemari@zzyx.ucsc.edu *Research Methods in Organic Farming, September 5-7, 1999. Bari, Italy* Workshop sponsored by Sustainable Rural Environment and Energy Network (SREN), UN Food and Agriculture Organization Regional Office for Europe (FAO/ROE), and Mediterranean Agronomic Institute Bari of the International Center for Advanced Mediterranean Agronomic Studies (CIHEAM-IAMB). Focus will be on-farm research. Sessions will include animal welfare, strategies for increasing producer value, networking and pilot farms. Free. Limited to 30 participants. Contact Professor R. Zanoli, DIBIAGA, Faculty of Agriculture, University of Ancona, Via Brecce Bianche, I-61031 Ancona, Italy; phone (39-71) 220-4929; fax (39-71) 220-4858; email zanoli@agrecon.unian.it *Third Annual Meeting of the Community Food Security Coalition, October 15-17, 1999. Chicago, IL* Conference sponsored by GreenNet and Heifer Project International. Workshops, short courses, and field trips will be offered. Topics will include asset mapping, community development, and food system assessment. Fee to be announced. Contact Andy Fisher, CFS Coalition, P.O. Box 209, Venice, CA 90294; phone (310) 822-5410; email asfisher@aol.com; website http://www.foodsecurity.org *International and National "Organic" Standards in the EU, 1998* Lizzie Melby Jespersen. Presents text and results of a detailed questionnaire on international, national and private systems of organic standards in the European Union. Covers standards for farm conversion, crops and animal products. 182 pp. Free. Contact Jesper Lund-Larsen, General Workers Union, Kampmannsgade 4, Box 391, DK 1790, Copenhagen, Denmark; phone (45-33) 97-2406; fax (45-33) 97-2402; email miljoe@sid.dk *Food Security: Factors that Could Affect Progress toward Meeting World Food Summit Goals, 1999* U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO). Reviews outcome of 1996 World Food Summit. Identifies factors influencing developing countries' potential to fulfill food security goals. Discusses trade, food prices and grain reserves; emergency and non-emergency food aid; role of violent conflict; increasing agricultural production in developing countries; and more. 101 pp. Free. Contact U.S. GAO, P.O. Box 37050, Washington, DC 20013; phone (202) 512-6000; fax (202) 512-6061; website http://www.gao.gov We encourage those interested in having resources listed in the PANUPS Resource Pointer to send review copies of publications, videos or other resources to our office. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 15:33:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA22377 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA11919 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:40:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA11873 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 14:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11449 invoked from network); 1 Jul 1999 18:40:45 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-27.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.199) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 1999 18:40:45 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990701143424.009a4100@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 14:40:19 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: RE: Tork's Word attachment (re: anti-hail missiles) In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDDD@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1507 Dale Wilson rightly requests that Word documents not be attached to e-mail messages. Word documents can carry macro viruses, such as the recent Melissa and Explorer worm viruses, and should never be opened until they have been scanned by an up-to-date anti-virus program. I scanned Tork's message, and it was virus-free. For those of you who cannot open it because you do not have the right software, or who deleted it out of concern it might carry a virus, here is the text: ------------------ Re: anti-hailstorm missiles. When I was making a documentary film in Bulgaria 1968, we were shown the missile-sites on the mountain side above an industrial vineyard at Brestovitsa, nor far from Plovdiv. When metereological radar stations registrered approaching heavy hailstorms, the missiles were fired at the clouds in order to release their content before they reached the vast vinefields. So, the system is quite old and well-tested, and Bulgarian claims that the war in Yugoslavia has forced a temporary shut-down of radar and missile operations, thus causing widespread damage by hail to crops, appears quite plausible ----------------- Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 17:03:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24225 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01719 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01649 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.137] (term5-33.vta.west.net [205.254.241.161]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7BDC424AE3 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:03:02 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: fwd query re: Fees/controls for trade marks for ag products Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA01677 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1508 fwd query from the Mountain Forum: I'm doing a study about trade marks for commercialisation of local mountain products of small regions. Does anybody have informations about: 1. examples of control methods for the use of such trade marks (honesty, quality) 2. examples of calculation of inscription fees for participating to such a trade mark organisation I already have informations about Switzerland, but would be happy to know how people do in the rest of the world. Thanks for your help. Cristina Solari -- SEREC / BEREG CH-REGIO La Place CH-1837 Chteau-d'Oex Tel: +41 (0) 26 924 72 80 Fax: +41 (0) 26 924 79 97 serec.chregio@gve.ch http://www.ch-regio.ch To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 17:57:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA25212 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06273 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA06233 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:05:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sp2n23-t.missouri.edu (sp2n23.missouri.edu [128.206.2.84]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA88554 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:05:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (c692388@localhost) by sp2n23-t.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA151644 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:05:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: sp2n23-t.missouri.edu: c692388 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:05:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Melissa Bushdiecker X-Sender: c692388@sp2n23-t.missouri.edu Reply-To: Melissa Bushdiecker To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: sustainable agCitement Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1509 Hello, I am trying to organize the AgCitement exhibit at the Missouri State Fair in mid-August. My objective is to create an interactive exhibit in which children can participate. The fair lasts for 10 days. During that time I have been thinking to have a hands-on building of a sustainable community project, starting from scratch and ending with an extensive model of a sustainable community in which the children created themselves. I plan to have sustainable farmers from around the state there to help and provide their expertise. I am asking for feedback on this idea and perhaps some suggestions on how to make this exhibit become a success. Any info or comments you have would be great and welcomed. Many thanks. I appreciate your time, Melissa Bushdiecker Summer Intern for Sustainable Agriculture MO Dept. of Agriculture UMC Sustainable Ag Extension Program To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 18:22:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25579 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:22:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23568 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:30:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23563 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from popmail.berea.edu (popmail.berea.edu [192.68.112.236]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA16281 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpgtwy.berea.edu (192.68.112.67) by popmail.berea.edu with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:39:09 -0600 Received: from ccMail by smtpgtwy.berea.edu (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.30.00.7) id AA930864827; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 17:34:08 -0400 Message-Id: <9907019308.AA930864827@smtpgtwy.berea.edu> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.30.00.7 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 13:40:35 -0400 From: "Carolyn Orr" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1510 There are two separate issues here...the use of sludge - totally dependent on its origin and its processing... ... and the use of sludge somewhere besides where it is being produced (NIMBY approach). These two issues should not be mixed up. The first issue - the use of sludge must be evaluasted on the community (and industry or lack of) from which it originates and how it is processed... Check with Paducah KY and see how they are handling theirs. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? Author: "Pat Elazar" Wrote This originally came across on the Organic Gardening List pertaining to an article in the Chicago Sun Times. (Sorry for the cross posting) I wanted to offer the topic for discussion amongst SA-neters. Is this merely sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling on an eco-shed scale? Larry Newton wrote: > Thought you all might find this interesting. > > Residents question sludge use on farm > Chicago Sun Times June 30, 1999 > By Jon Schmid Environment Reporter > Chicago's Waste Management Inc. wants to increase the city's recycling by > spreading up to 60,000 tons a year of garbage particles on land owned by an > organic farm in Kankakee County. > The particles, called screenings, are sifted from residential garbage as > part of the sorting process. They don't contain anything dangerous and make > great fertilizer, said Scott Combis, division environmental engineer with > Waste Management. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 18:28:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25671 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23567 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:30:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from popmail.berea.edu (popmail.berea.edu [192.68.112.236]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23558 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpgtwy.berea.edu (192.68.112.67) by popmail.berea.edu with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.3.1); Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:39:09 -0600 Received: from ccMail by smtpgtwy.berea.edu (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.30.00.7) id AA930864827; Thu, 01 Jul 1999 17:34:08 -0400 Message-Id: <9907019308.AA930864827@smtpgtwy.berea.edu> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.30.00.7 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 13:40:35 -0400 From: "Carolyn Orr" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1511 There are two separate issues here...the use of sludge - totally dependent on its origin and its processing... ... and the use of sludge somewhere besides where it is being produced (NIMBY approach). These two issues should not be mixed up. The first issue - the use of sludge must be evaluasted on the community (and industry or lack of) from which it originates and how it is processed... Check with Paducah KY and see how they are handling theirs. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? Author: "Pat Elazar" Wrote This originally came across on the Organic Gardening List pertaining to an article in the Chicago Sun Times. (Sorry for the cross posting) I wanted to offer the topic for discussion amongst SA-neters. Is this merely sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling on an eco-shed scale? Larry Newton wrote: > Thought you all might find this interesting. > > Residents question sludge use on farm > Chicago Sun Times June 30, 1999 > By Jon Schmid Environment Reporter > Chicago's Waste Management Inc. wants to increase the city's recycling by > spreading up to 60,000 tons a year of garbage particles on land owned by an > organic farm in Kankakee County. > The particles, called screenings, are sifted from residential garbage as > part of the sorting process. They don't contain anything dangerous and make > great fertilizer, said Scott Combis, division environmental engineer with > Waste Management. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 18:30:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA25699 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA17770 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:24:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay.interim.iamworld.net (relay.interim.iamworld.net [204.91.241.82]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA17717 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from joannahi (1Cust145.tnt5.tco2.da.uu.net [153.35.91.145]) by relay.interim.iamworld.net (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA23168 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 17:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990701171045.0082f100@pop.access.digex.net> X-Sender: hawiaa@pop.access.digex.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 17:10:45 -0700 To: sanet From: Joanna Hildebrand Subject: Alternative Agriculture News, July 1999, Volume 17 Number 07 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1512 July, 1999 Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, #117 Greenbelt, MD 20770 (301) 441-8777 E-mail: hawiaa@access.digex.net World Wide Web: http://www.hawiaa.org * * * If You Are Interested in Sustainable Agriculture... In addition to this monthly newsletter, the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture publishes the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, a quarterly, peer-reviewed journal of research on alternative agriculture. It is a scientific forum for disseminating technical, economic, and social research findings about the character and requirements of alternative agriculture systems. The factors, challenges, and obstacles in organic farmers' decision-making are featured in the new issue (Volume 14, No. 1). Other articles cover evaluation of farmers' perceptions of soil quality indicators, farmers' attitudes towards sustainable agriculture issues and environmental quality in a selected area of Bangladesh, rice and wheat production in Pakistan with effective microorganisms, a profile of an organic farm in Sweden, and commentary on whether precision agriculture is sustainable. Subscriptions to AJAA are $44 for libraries, $24 for individuals, and $12 for students; contact the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Road, #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; e-mail hawiaa@access.digex.net Table of Contents Organic Crops Can Be As, or More, Profitable As Conventional, p. 1 Voluntary Program Will Boost Organic Exports, p. 2 Nominations Sought for Steward of the Land Award, p. 3 Positions, p. 3 Biotech Crops Reduce Pesticide Sales, But Worry Industry, p. 3 America Gets Its First Organic Restaurant, p. 4 Resources, p. 4 Upcoming Events, p. 5 ORGANIC CROPS CAN BE AS, OR MORE, PROFITABLE AS CONVENTIONAL Organic cropping systems in the midwestern United States can be as profitable, or even more profitable, than most conventional rotations, according to a new report by the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture entitled The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States. To help farmers understand the profitability of organic agriculture, the Wallace Institute report, by policy analyst Rick Welsh, analyzes studies comparing organic and conventional grain cropping systems. The report also reviews past and current research on the conditions under which growing organic crops is profitable, and provides a summary and assessment of the "best science" available on the topic. There has been dramatic worldwide growth in the production of, and demand for, organically produced agricultural products. In addition, consumers have consistently been willing to pay premium prices for organic products, which has often caused processors to pay premiums to farmers for organic grains. However, the study found that premiums are not always necessary for organic systems to outperform conventional systems. When the organic systems were more profitable, it was due to one or more factors, including: - The organic system having lower production costs; - The net returns for the types of crops in the organic rotation were higher than the net returns for the types of crops in the conventional rotation; and - Organic systems are drought hardy and can outperform conventional systems in drier areas or during drier periods. - In addition to the economic benefits of organic grain and soybean production in the midwestern United States, there are potential health benefits to farm-level workers and the natural environment from organic production. "Given the potential economic, health, and environmental benefits of organic production, a greater public policy commitment in research, investment, and education is needed," according to the report, which makes policy recommendations for state and federal agencies, and private sector firms. Such commitments could mirror the efforts of several European governments. Denmark has enacted financial support policies for organic farming, including information and marketing support and financial assistance. Sweden, through charges on fertilizers and pesticides, funds research into reducing and eliminating synthetic chemicals in agricultural production. Also needed is work on the marketing aspects of organic agriculture, the report concludes. State departments of agriculture, and other interested parties that view organic agriculture as a potentially fruitful area for environmental management and rural development, might invest resources to develop marketing information useful to organic farmers. In addition, extension services could assist organic farmers in developing or locating market outlets or developing individual or cooperative marketing strategies. The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States is available electronically on the Wallace Institute's Web site at http://www.hawiaa.org, or in hard copy for $15 from the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Road, #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; e-mail hawiaa@access.digex.net VOLUNTARY PROGRAM WILL BOOST ORGANIC EXPORTS The USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service has established a voluntary, fee-for-service program to verify that organic certification agencies in the United States comply with the requirements of the International Organization for Standardization, facilitating exports of U.S. organic agricultural products to the European Union. Effective last month, the program will verify that state and private organic certifying agencies are operating third-party certification systems in a consistent and reliable manner, enabling their acceptance on an international basis. The new program does not provide for national standards governing the marketing of organically produced agricultural commodities or products, and differs substantially from the proposed National Organic Program. To be assessed under this program, an organic certifying agency would submit an application requesting such assessment from AMS and also submit to AMS for review and evaluation, a manual documenting the organic certifying agency's quality system and certification procedures used to certify organic producers and handlers. There are currently 11 state and 33 private organic certifying agencies providing certification for organic agricultural products in the United States. The rule announcing the program was published in the Federal Register on June 10 and is available on the Internet at in the Federal Register for that date, under "Program To Assess Organic Certifying Agencies." NOMINATIONS SOUGHT FOR STEWARD OF THE LAND AWARD American Farmland Trust seeks nominations for the 2000 Steward of the Land Award, given annually to the American farmer or farm family who demonstrates outstanding land stewardship and leadership at the national, state, and local levels. The winner will be presented with the award early next year and will receive a $10,000 cash stipend. Nominations must be received by mail or fax by Monday, November 1. For nomination kits and more information, contact Matthew Snyder or Robyn Miller at AFT, (202) 331-7300 ext. 3044, or visit AFT's Web site at . POSITIONS National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture seeks an organizer to work on policy advocacy activities; send cover letter, resume, writing samples, and references to Amy Little, Executive Director, National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture, P.O. Box 396, Pine Bush, N.Y. 12566; (914) 744-8448; e-mail campaign@magiccarpet.com Regional Farm & Food Project seeks a Program Coordinator; contact Shannon Hayes, Regional Farm & Food Project, 27 Elm St., Albany, N.Y. 12202; (518) 234-2105; e-mail maiaharbol@aol.com Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems, University of California, Santa Cruz, seeks applicants for its Apprenticeship in Ecological Horticulture program; for application brochure, contact Apprenticeship Information, Center for Agroecology, UC Santa Cruz, 1156 High St., Santa Cruz, CA 95064; (831) 459-4140; e-mail annemari@zzyx.ucsc.edu Institute of Ecosystem Studies seeks a Watershed Ecology Program Educator and an Ecology Field Program Educator; contact Dr. Alan R. Berkowitz, Head of Education, IES, P.O. Box R, Millbrook, N.Y. 12545; e-mail berkowitza@ecostudies.org BIOTECH CROPS REDUCE PESTICIDE SALES, BUT WORRY INDUSTRY Accelerating use of genetically altered seeds is causing pesticide sales to decrease, but corporate concerns to increase because of consumer protests and European backlash, according to several published reports. "New bug-resistant crops are cooling demand for some pesticides, and farmers are abandoning long-used weedkillers," according to The Wall Street Journal (June 16, 1999). The use of genetically-altered seeds has cut into pesticide manufacturers' profits, and prompted some chemical companies to reduce their wholesale pesticide prices. Though the biotech industry has developed products that are selling well, "critics are raising concerns about threats to health and the environment, prompting the industry to think hard about where it is heading," according to The New York Times (June 24, 1999). The industry is using a forecasting technique known as "story building" as "an early warning system for how their strategies could go astray." Biotech companies are facing critics who have stepped up their efforts "to portray the advances as fraught with threats to human health and the environment....The result has been a crisis of confidence in the industry." The story building studies two to four contrasting visions of the future, including political surprises, industrial accidents, or social disruptions unanticipated in business plans. According to a story in Barron's Online (May 24, 1999), business analysts also have concerns about genetically altered products. "Lately, GMO [genetically modified] products have provoked fear among consumers, and the erstwhile boon is becoming a bane," the story said. "We predict that GMOs, once perceived as the driver of the bull case for this sector, will now be perceived as a pariah,' says Tim Ramey, an agribusiness analyst at Deutsche Bank Securities. We see a two-tier price system developing with genetically modified corn and soybeans at a discount to regular corn and soybeans.'" Some European processors are already paying premiums of $1 a bushel for non-GMO products, it said. AMERICA GETS ITS FIRST CERTIFIED ORGANIC RESTAURANT Restaurant Nora in Washington, D.C., has become the country's first certified organic restaurant, according to The Washington Post (June 23, 1999). The certification process, which took three years, required restaurant owner Nora Pouillon to document that at least 95 percent of the ingredients she purchases come from farmers and processors who themselves are certified. The restaurant's pantry was also inspected, and its invoices verified. Pouillon buys organic ingredients from small local farmers and more than 50 purveyors. "In getting certified, she wanted to show her peers in the environmental and natural food worlds that it could be done," according to the story. RESOURCES "Buffers -- Common-Sense Conservation" and "Buffer Solutions for Pork Production" are available from the USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service at 1-888- LANDCARE or on the Internet at . "Upper Midwest Organic Livestock Producers' Directory" is $5 from Cooperative Development Services, 30 West Mifflin St., #401, Madison, WI 53703; (608) 258-4396; e-mail darcylk@inxpress.net "Leveling the Learning Fields: As Assessment of the Agriculture Partnership Model and Voluntary Pesticide Reduction in BIOS-Merced and BIFS-Lodi" is $15 from James Grieshop, Department of Human and Community Development, University of California/Davis, One Shields Avenue, Davis, CA 95616. "Getting Food on the Table: An Action Guide to Local Food Policy" is $12 from Community Food Security Coalition, P.O. Box 209, Venice, VA 90294; (310) 822-5410. "Whole Farm Planning at Work: Success Stories of Ten Farms" is $8 from The Minnesota Project, 1885 University Avenue West, #315, St. Paul, MN 55104. UPCOMING EVENTS July-November, the 1999 Farm Ecology Tour Series will be held at several locations in Ohio; for full schedule of events and locations, contact Ohio Ecological Food & Farm Association, P.O. Box 82234, Columbus, OH 43202; (614) 267-3663; e-mail oeffa@iwaynet.net July-September, Practical Farmers of Iowa will hold farm field days at several locations in Iowa; for full schedule of events and locations, contact Rick Exner, PFI/ISU Extension Farming Systems Coordinator, (515) 294-5486; e-mail dnexner@iastate.edu July-September, on-farm summer workshops will be held at several locations in Vermont; for full schedule of events and locations, contact Northeast Organic Farming Association of Vermont, P.O. Box 697, Richmond, VT 05477; (802) 434-4122. July 26-27, "Creating Incentives for Farmer-led Source Water Protection" will be held in Columbus, OH; contact Mark Muller, Institute for Agriculture & Trade Policy, (612) 870-3420; e-mail mmuller@iatp.org July 26, Agronomy Department field day will be held in Davis, CA; contact Durga Poudel, University of California Davis Department of Agronomy and Range Science, (530) 752- 2023; e-mail ddpoudel@ucdavis.edu August 1-3, "Organic: Growing into the 21st Century" will be held in Oakland, CA; contact Organic Farming Research Foundation, P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061; (831) 426- 6606; e-mail research@ofrf.org August 1-4, National Association of Conservation Districts' Northeastern Regional Meeting will be held in Baltimore, MD; contact NACD, 9150 West Jewell, #102, Lakewood, CO 80232; (303) 988-1810. August 4-8, "Empowering Communities," the 62nd Annual Meeting of the Rural Sociological Society, will be held in Chicago, IL; contact RSS, c/o Department of Sociology, 510 Arntzen Hall, Western Washington University, Bellingham, WA 98225; (360) 650-7295; e-mail ruralsoc@cc.wwu.edu August 5, Midwest Soybean Conference will be held in Chicago, IL; contact Global Soy Forum 99, 1101 W. Peabody, #165, Urbana, IL 61801; (271) 244-7384. August 8-11, "Walk on the Wild Side," the Soil and Water Conservation Society's Annual Conference, will be held in Biloxi, MS; contact SWCS, 7515 NE Ankeny Road, Ankeny, IA 50021; on the Internet, . August 13-15, Northeast Organic Farming Association's 25th Annual Summer Conference and Celebration of Rural Life will be held in Amherst, MA; contact NOFA, 411 Sheldon Road, Barre, MA 01005; (978) 355-2853 or -2270. August 20-21, Organization for Competitive Markets' Annual Meeting will be held in Omaha, NE; contact OCM, RR2, Box 73, Hickman, NE 68372; (860) 738-9755; e-mail the.ocm@snet.net August 25-27, National Symposium on the Future of American Agriculture will be held in Athens, GA; contact Barbara Marable, Georgia Center for Continuing Education, (706) 542- 1585; e-mail marableb@gactr.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 19:17:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA26670 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 19:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01516 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:34:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01413 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.41] (gl-ppp21.hevanet.com [204.119.60.41]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA22487; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907012234.PAA22487@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 15:34:45 -0700 Subject: FW: Weevil May Help Fight Invasive Water Weed From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1513 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Weevil May Help Fight Invasive Water Weed Date: Thu, Jul 1, 1999, 8:45 AM STORY LEAD: Weevil May Help Fight Invasive Water Weed ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov July 1, 1999 ----------- Sleek black weevils are being put to work in an east Texas pond, lake, and reservoir to help stop the spread of a fast-growing water weed, Salvinia molesta. If the weevils perform as well in the United States as they have in countries such as Australia, South Africa and India, they might reduce the need for chemical controls. This week near Jasper, Texas, Agricultural Research Service scientists and colleagues from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department are freeing about 500 of the one-tenth-inch long weevils known as Cyrtobagous salviniae. Earlier, they set loose about 350 weevils. Salvinia molesta produces small, oval, green to yellow-green leaves that can form dense mats that crowd out native plants and ruin conditions for fish and wildlife. The mats can also interfere with flood control and irrigation as well as with fishing, swimming, boating, and water skiing. Native to South America, S. molesta poses a threat to waterways in warm-weather areas of the U.S. Unchecked, it can quickly double its spread in only a few days, according to Ted D. Center, who leads the ARS Aquatic Weed Control Research Laboratory in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. The weevil, also native to South America, showed up in Florida several decades ago. It is thought to have a key role in keeping another Salvinia species, S. minima, in check in Florida. The ARS researchers in Ft. Lauderdale collected the weevils in Florida and are releasing them in Texas with the permission of federal and state regulatory authorities. Weevil adults and young attack primarily the new, nitrogen-rich buds of the plant. The weevils can produce a new generation of hungry young every 3 weeks. ARS scientists and their Texas associates will monitor the weevils to determine if they can adapt. Winter weather poses the biggest threat to the newcomer insects in Texas. ARS is USDA's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Ted D. Center, ARS Aquatic Weed Control Research Laboratory, 3205 College Ave., Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33314; phone (954) 475-0541, ext. 103; fax (954) 476-9169, tcenter@ars.usda.gov ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 20:40:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA27649 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA15343 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 19:45:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA15240 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 19:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.251.170]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990701234419.IWKG2808@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:44:19 +0000 Message-ID: <377BFD2E.60266EF3@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 18:43:42 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? References: <9907019308.AA930864827@smtpgtwy.berea.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------379DAE111B3DCD3424B3AF43" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1514 --------------379DAE111B3DCD3424B3AF43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Even when there is no industry in a community, the residents should be informed what may be in the sludge based on what is in consumer products. Back in September of 1995, the Discovery Channel aired a documentary entitled Assault on the Male. The documentary pointed out that there are a number of manmade chemicals and a few natural ones, some dangerous and others once thought to have been harmless, which mimic estrogen in the bodies of wildlife and mammals (including people). The documentary cited the effects on fish down stream from sewage treatment plants. Since these chemicals are obviously dumped down the drain. Wouldn't they also be in the sewage sludge? Certainly, Cornell has identified DDT, PCBs, dioxins, lead, cadmium, mercury in the sludge. Yet, is the EPA regulating the dioxin and PCBs, or the DDT? Not unless things have changed since the initial regulations came out. They only regulate the heavy metals and with that, they allow the maximum amount to be spread on the soil. However, other unregulated chemicals can be there also, because they have been found in the effluent downstream from sewage treatment plants and studies have suggested that alkylphenol ethoxolates (in detergents) have caused devastating effects to male fish. The male fish are developing a protein that only females are said to produce. The documentary interviewed Professor Sumpter of the Department of Biology and Biochemistry at Brunel University in England. Dr. Richard Sumpter discussed his finding that his male trout produced vitellogenin, a female protein, when exposed to estrogenic pollutants in river water near sewer outlets. He tested trout in tanks and found that nonylphenol and octylphenol produced these same reactions in the fish. What is really troubling is that these effects show up at extremely small doses. At 50 ppb nonylphenol is very estrogenic to the trout. At exposures of 30 ppb it increases the vitellogenin levels in male trout 1,000 fold; 30 ppb of octylphenol (the building block of the Triton X series of surfactants) increases the levels over 1,000,000 fold. See Alkyphenol ethoxylate surfactants (usually nonylphenol ethoxylate or octylphenol ethoxylate) are found in pesticides, domestic clothes washing detergents, some shampoos, shaving foams and other cosmetics, petrochemically made detergent, the spermicidal lubricant nonoxynol-9, various laboratory detergents, including Triton X-100; pesticide formulations, and in the fuel Orimulsion --all of which can also make their way into sewage treatment plants. Nonylphenols produced these reactions in fish, and have also caused breast tissue cultures to multiply in the laboratory --a sign of breast cancer. They are also linked to developmental disorders in male mammals. ''Alkylphenol ethoxylates generally end up at sewage treatment plants, where unfortunately they are only partially degraded, mainly to other alkylphenolic compounds, which then enter rivers and the sea in the treated sewage. A recent modeling study concluded that 83 % of UK nonylphenol ethoxylate production enters the environment, with 37 % entering the aquatic environment (CES, 1993),'' according to Dr. A. Michael Warhust who is with Friends of the Earth in the U.K. Nonylphenol ethoxylates are not regulated in the U.S. And they may be entering our food. Unfortunately, in the U.S., when regulations are written, they are written using quantative risk assessment which basically allows people (as well as other animals) to die, so that business as usual can continue. The public deserves the right to know when sewage sludge is used to grow food they eat. However, we don't have that right in the U.S. And, instead of handling the problem in a more responsible manner, like educating the public about the consumer products they purchase given that alternatives are available, the government keeps the public controlled and ignorant to appease corporate powers, and at the same time, is irradiating our food to kill the pathogens found in the sludge when appear to be also contaminating some agriculture that uses the waste material. Pathogens are not nonylphenols. But they are another problem and a reason why sewage sludge--even composted sewage sludge--should not be spread of fields that grow food crops. ~Bunny Snow ____________________________________________________ Carolyn Orr wrote: > There are two separate issues here...the use of sludge - totally > dependent on its origin and its processing... > ... and the use of sludge somewhere besides where it is being produced > (NIMBY approach). > These two issues should not be mixed up. The first issue - the use of > sludge must be evaluasted on the community (and industry or lack of) > from which it originates and how it is processed... Check with Paducah > KY and see how they are handling theirs. > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? > Author: "Pat Elazar" Wrote > > This originally came across on the Organic Gardening List pertaining to an > article in the Chicago Sun Times. (Sorry for the cross posting) I wanted to > offer the topic for discussion amongst SA-neters. Is this merely sludge > disposal,or nutrient recycling on an eco-shed scale? > > Larry Newton wrote: > > > Thought you all might find this interesting. > > > > Residents question sludge use on farm > > Chicago Sun Times June 30, 1999 > > By Jon Schmid Environment Reporter > > Chicago's Waste Management Inc. wants to increase the city's recycling by > > spreading up to 60,000 tons a year of garbage particles on land owned by an > > organic farm in Kankakee County. > > The particles, called screenings, are sifted from residential garbage as > > part of the sorting process. They don't contain anything dangerous and make > > great fertilizer, said Scott Combis, division environmental engineer with > > Waste Management. > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------379DAE111B3DCD3424B3AF43 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Even when there is no industry in a community, the residents should be informed what may be in the sludge based on what is in consumer products.

    Back in September of 1995, the Discovery Channel aired a documentary
    entitled Assault on the Male.  The documentary pointed out that there are a number of  manmade chemicals and a few natural ones, some dangerous and others once thought to have been harmless, which mimic estrogen in the bodies of wildlife and mammals (including people).  The documentary cited the effects on fish down stream from sewage treatment plants.  Since these chemicals are obviously dumped down the drain. Wouldn't they also be in the sewage sludge?  Certainly, Cornell has identified DDT, PCBs, dioxins, lead, cadmium, mercury in the sludge.  Yet, is the EPA regulating the dioxin and PCBs, or the DDT?  Not unless things have changed since the initial regulations came out.  They only regulate the heavy metals and with that, they allow the maximum amount to be spread on the soil.

    However,  other unregulated chemicals can be there also, because they have been found in the effluent downstream from sewage treatment plants and studies have suggested that alkylphenol ethoxolates (in detergents) have caused devastating effects to male fish.  The male fish are developing a protein that only females are said to produce.

    The documentary interviewed Professor Sumpter of the Department of
    Biology and Biochemistry at Brunel University in England.  Dr. Richard
    Sumpter discussed his finding that his male trout produced vitellogenin,
    a female protein, when exposed to estrogenic pollutants in river water
    near sewer outlets. He tested trout in tanks and found that nonylphenol
    and octylphenol produced these same reactions in the fish. What is
    really troubling is that these effects show up at extremely small doses.
    At 50 ppb nonylphenol is very estrogenic to the trout. At exposures of
    30 ppb it increases the vitellogenin levels in male trout 1,000 fold; 30
    ppb of octylphenol (the building block of the Triton X series of
    surfactants) increases the levels over 1,000,000 fold.
    See
    <http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~mwarhurst/ape.html>
    <http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~mwarhurst/usa.html>

    Alkyphenol ethoxylate surfactants (usually nonylphenol ethoxylate or
    octylphenol ethoxylate) are found in pesticides, domestic clothes washing detergents, some shampoos, shaving foams and other cosmetics, petrochemically made detergent, the spermicidal lubricant nonoxynol-9,
    various laboratory detergents, including Triton X-100; pesticide formulations, and in the fuel Orimulsion --all of which can also make
    their way into sewage treatment plants.  Nonylphenols produced these
    reactions in fish, and have also caused breast tissue cultures to multiply in the laboratory --a sign of breast cancer.  They are also linked to developmental disorders in male mammals.

    ''Alkylphenol ethoxylates generally end up at sewage treatment plants,
    where unfortunately they are only partially degraded, mainly to other
    alkylphenolic compounds, which then enter rivers and the sea in the
    treated sewage. A recent modeling study concluded that 83 % of UK
    nonylphenol ethoxylate production enters the environment, with 37 %
    entering the aquatic environment (CES, 1993),'' according to Dr. A.
    Michael Warhust who is with Friends of the Earth in the U.K.

    Nonylphenol ethoxylates are not regulated in the U.S.  And they may be entering our food.  Unfortunately, in the U.S., when regulations are written, they are written using quantative risk assessment which basically allows people (as well as other animals) to die, so that business as usual can continue.

    The public deserves the right to know when sewage sludge is used to grow food they eat.  However, we don't have that right in the U.S.  And, instead of handling the problem in a more responsible manner, like educating the public about the consumer products they purchase given that alternatives are available, the government keeps the public controlled and ignorant to appease corporate powers, and at the same time, is irradiating our food to kill the pathogens found in the sludge when appear to be also contaminating some agriculture that uses the waste material.

    Pathogens are not nonylphenols.  But they are another problem and a reason why sewage sludge--even composted sewage sludge--should not be spread of fields that grow food crops.

    ~Bunny Snow
    ____________________________________________________

    Carolyn Orr wrote:

         There are two separate issues here...the use of sludge - totally
         dependent on its origin and its processing...
         ... and the use of sludge somewhere besides where it is being produced
         (NIMBY approach).
         These two issues should not be mixed up.  The first issue - the use of
         sludge must be evaluasted on the community (and industry or lack of)
         from which it originates and how it is processed... Check with Paducah
         KY and see how they are handling theirs.
     

    ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
    Subject: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling?
    Author:  "Pat Elazar" Wrote

    This originally came across on the Organic Gardening List pertaining to an
    article in the Chicago Sun Times. (Sorry for the cross posting) I wanted to
    offer the topic for discussion amongst SA-neters. Is this merely sludge
    disposal,or nutrient recycling on an eco-shed scale?

    Larry Newton wrote:

    > Thought you all might find this interesting.
    >
    > Residents question sludge use on farm
    > Chicago Sun Times June 30, 1999
    > By Jon Schmid Environment Reporter
    > Chicago's Waste Management Inc. wants to increase the city's recycling by
    > spreading up to 60,000 tons a year of garbage particles on land owned by an
    > organic farm in Kankakee County.
    > The particles, called screenings, are sifted from residential garbage as
    > part of the sorting process. They don't contain anything dangerous and make
    > great fertilizer, said Scott Combis, division environmental engineer with
    > Waste Management.
    >

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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 21:08:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA27920 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA27589 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:05:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA27577 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d06-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.133] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA14391; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:03:39 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Dan Hook" , "Bob MacGregor" , , Subject: RE: corn Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:07:33 +1000 Message-ID: <000b01bec41e$e22b3ce0$8579a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <003801bec3d2$a37a43c0$aff86ed1@dan> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1515 Dan Hook wrote"... I saw an entomologist on a PBS special, say as she was walking through the jungle "all bugs are edible" I wondered about the all bugs in that there must be a poisonous one somewhere." This in turn reminded me that we have in the past collected bugs to make a bug juice to spray on to plants. I think this is a common recommendation in use of Bt - you can stop buying if you keep collecting the mortally wounded are recycling their essence. The basic point being that you can return to the plant a bunch of relevant bug pathogens. I think it is useful to look on the individual bug as 10% microorganism. In terms of their dietary value for people, I suspect it's all in the quality of the butchery and cooking. I used to raise pigeons, but found the emotional and physical effort in slaughter and butchery outweighed the cuisine-nutritional benefit. Quail have always seemed to me to be on the wrong side of the effort-benefit balance point, though I once ate some very good braised sparrow in Shanghai. I can't imagine filleting a cockroach; worm burgers have been a commercial failure in Australia, other than perhaps in tax minimisation schemes.. Traditional Aboriginal Australian diet involved bingeing on seasonal bugs, a very notable example being the big fat woolly bogong moth, which migrate in millions into the high country to breed once a year, at a very handy time in terms of winter fat needs for the locals, who would put on pounds and pounds, late winter, banqueting on bogong barbecue. But these were part of a very sophisticated and selective and poison-aware, medicine-aware traditional diet. I would go with the opinion of a tradition-wise Amerindian in the jungle, ahead of an entomologist. cheers Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 21:48:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28340 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 21:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA22034 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:48:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21972 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d06-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.133] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA20679; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:48:19 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , Subject: urban sustainability, fish ponds, was RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1122 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:52:13 +1000 Message-ID: <001201bec425$1f881a80$8579a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <5fa6086f.24ad08ab@aol.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1516 Tom wrote >We are digging a long trench about 3 feet deep 3feet wide for the fish and a separation for the fingerlings. A solar pump will pump the fish water to tubes that will soak the root balls of the plants suspended in cups held by vertical structures and back to the fish (oxygenated and cleaned). I hope to feed the fish worms from the composting toilet, which I also hope to build soon. We have done something a bit similar. We had an old above ground swimming pool, no longer deep enough for growing family to swim in. We put water plants in the pond and koi [Japanese carp] and diverted a roof downpipe into the pool. Then cut an outlet hole into the side of the pool, up near the top, fitting a PVC stormwater pipe through this hole, with a T-piece on the end, above the pool, one end of the T up, the other down, with bathroom floor grates over the ends of the T. If you put a pipe straight in horizontally with a grate on the end it will choke swiftly with surface pond weed. The outlet is fitted back to the stormwater. Local water authority said OK. You will need to consider whether you need some such freshening system to deal with excess nitrogen. Your plant feeding routing may suffice. We used the old pool pump to pump to an elevated 44 gallon pump to gravity feed the fish water via half inch hose to garden. The problem with such a system, of course, is finding a balance which allows subtraction of water to plants in dry weather, without taking the pool down too far. Judgment was that if we were in a dry spell needing tap water for plants, the water would be better for garden use if first used to top up the pool. Koi, being vegetarians, eat all the surface weed we put in. We made the mistake of adding two ducks, who destroyed everything. Gambusia, mosquito fish, arrived as eggs on pond weeds, and are now in teeming millions, and as voracious carnivores they eliminate the prospect of any small animal life. They will also tear fins off quite large fish. I think we will have to remove the koi and give the pond a chlorine shock and clean out (something I do not look forward to) to solve the gambusia question. best wishes Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 1 23:44:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00028 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 23:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA12628 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:58:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA12566 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.251.226]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990702025730.MMLJ2808@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 02:57:30 +0000 Message-ID: <377C2A76.D48DA4A8@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 21:56:55 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: War: new restrictions of cholinesterase inhibitors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1517 There is a real war going on across the U.S. On one side is the USEPA is actually attempting to better protect farm workers and our children's health (while at the same time help the biotech industry). And on the other side the American Crop Protection Association, which represents about 90 major pesticide and chemical companies who manufacture organophosphate and carbamate nerve gases are brainwashing reporters. Is ACPA involved with the Texas A&M University Agricultural and Food Policy Center? AFPA has presented papers on the impacts of eliminating organophosphates and carbamates from food production. See: . The American people need to hear both sides of the issues. They need to hear from you because you are growing safer, healthier food and soil! I've taken these snippets from the middle of a long article at the URL of and the author, Mr. Bernton left his telephone number and email address for you to contact him...503-294-7689 or by e-mail at I encourage organic farmers to share their side of the story regarding the combating of these pests, lest the nerve gases stay on the market and kill beneficial organisms, livestock, wildlife, domestic animals, and children of all ages, alike. ~Bunny Snow ________________________________________________ Agencies prod farmers to cut chemical use on potatoes An EPA review of the Northwest industry to gauge cumulative risks -- on and off the farm --could lead to new restrictions Sunday, June 27, 1999 By Hal Bernton of The Oregonian staff **...To rid their fields of the worms, Oregon potato farmers use a high-volume mix of metam-sodium and 1-3 dichloropropene, fumigants that penetrate the ground and extinguish most soil life. In 1997, they pumped more than 8 million pounds of fumigants into the soil. The chemicals appear to dissipate rapidly and don't show up as residues in any of the federal sampling surveys. Nor do they appear to leach into the groundwater. State officials have found serious nitrate pollution from farm fertilizers but no significant ground-water pollution from fumigants or other pesticides. But the fumigants can drift into the air and off the fields. Each spring and fall, air monitors around the U.S. Army's Umatilla Chemical Depot, a nerve-gas storage site near Hermiston, register readings of fumigants for weeks. The fumigants also pack such a powerful punch that they kill beneficial organisms in the soil that would be a farmer's ally. "Agriculture is a biological process, and if you nuke all the organisms, it slows down the decomposition of organic matter and can disrupt the recycling of nutrients and all sorts of things," said Chuck Benbrook, an entomologist and former staff member of the National Academy of Sciences board on agriculture. Russ Ingham, an Oregon State University nematologist, is trying to find ways to reduce fumigant use. In 1997, he demonstrated that farmers could cut back their use by 20 percent annually and still achieve good nematode control. This year, in a test plot above the Columbia River, he's searching for new efficiencies, bagging dozens of soil-treatment samples for analysis at his Corvallis laboratory. He dreams of a day when fumigants no longer are needed. Toward that end, he's trying to find crops that nematodes don't attack. Grown in rotation with potatoes, such crops might knock back the nematodes to a safe level. For now, the crops most efficient at fighting nematodes aren't lucrative enough to attract many farmers. The hottest prospect so far is the humble lima bean.''... ** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 08:28:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA04347 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA27168 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:34:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from musse.tninet.se (musse.tninet.se [195.100.94.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA27138 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15166 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1999 13:34:24 +0200 Received: from du170-151.ppp.algonet.se (HELO fujitsu) (195.100.151.170) by musse.tninet.se with SMTP; 2 Jul 1999 13:34:24 +0200 Message-ID: <000f01bec47f$5b29a860$aa9764c3@fujitsu> From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?T=F8rk_Haxthausen?=" To: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:37:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEC490.07C77740" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1518 Denne opdelte meddelelse er i MIME-format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEC490.07C77740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: Lon J.Rombough Dale Wilson Cass Peterson Re: Anti-hail missiles. Sorry for the inconvenience - my inexperience with this list. Word 97 = seems reluctant to import text from own files into Outlook Express but = does it without hitch as attached files, so I tried doing it that way. The message was simply, that in 1968, I had seen the missile sites in = the mountains above the vineyards in Brestovitsa near Plovdiv when I was = filming in the area, and that the method was at least that old and well = established.So, the Bulgarians may well have suffered losses to their = harvest as a result of the war against Yugoslavia because they had to = turn off their radar and missile system in order not to disturb NATO. Thanks for your quick reactions. Tork. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEC490.07C77740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    To:
    Lon J.Rombough
    Dale Wilson
    Cass Peterson
    Re: Anti-hail missiles.
    Sorry for the inconvenience - my inexperience with = this list.=20 Word 97 seems reluctant to import text from own files into Outlook = Express but=20 does it without hitch as attached files, so I tried doing it that=20 way.
    The message was simply, that in 1968, I had seen the = missile=20 sites in the mountains above the vineyards in Brestovitsa near Plovdiv = when I=20 was filming in the area, and that the method was at least that old and = well=20 established.So, the Bulgarians may well have suffered losses to their = harvest as=20 a result of the war against Yugoslavia because they had to turn off = their radar=20 and missile system in order not to disturb NATO.
    Thanks for your quick reactions.=20 Tork.
    ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEC490.07C77740-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 09:18:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA05751 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA05750 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:38:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web607.mail.yahoo.com (web607.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.171]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA05685 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990702124011.13324.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web607.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Jul 1999 05:40:11 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 05:40:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: American Crop Protection Association To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1519 Good Morning SANETeers, Bunny mentioned the ACPA. This is a group that those with interests in agriculture should be aware of. Look at www.acpa.org and go through to the list of members. Then imagine the most powerful of the corporations listed. The CEO's of these corps are the board of directors of the ACPA. This is a very well funded group whose offices are in D.C. Have a terrific 4th weekend everyone, kate === ------------------ Kate Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 609-234-9200 (O) 609-234-0733 (F) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 10:34:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07457 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA12491 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:41:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12350 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ruth-goldstein (ws1.vancomm.com [209.8.22.66]) by mail.his.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA02856 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:37:30 -0400 Message-ID: <01BEC46E.81685E60.rgoldstein@CommunityMediaDC.org> From: Ruth Goldstein Reply-To: "rgoldstein@CommunityMediaDC.org" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Organic Pesticides-Resources Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:37:29 -0400 Organization: Community Media X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1520 Hi- I am looking for research comparing organic to inorganic pesticides. Can anyone point me to journal articles, a good book, or a good web site? Thanks. Ruth Goldstein To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 10:47:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07766 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20861 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:54:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from www1.townsqr.com (www.townsqr.com [207.18.224.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20855 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tom-speraneo (unverified [207.18.224.111]) by www1.townsqr.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 02 Jul 1999 08:53:55 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990702135229.009fa268@townsqr.com> X-Sender: snsaquasys@townsqr.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 08:52:29 -0500 To: From: S & S Aqua Farm Subject: Re: urban sustainability, fish ponds, was RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1122 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1521 At 10:52 AM 7/2/99 +1000, Dennis wrote: Gambusia, mosquito >fish, arrived as eggs on pond weeds, and are now in teeming millions, ... I've heard gambusia described as Missouri's only live-bearer, and fish-producing facilities here raise them for sales to golf courses and other locations where mosquitoes are a problem. Using a fine-mesh net you should be able to capture them to extract from your pond - then why not move them someplace where they could be of benefit (lessen mosquito populations and earn enough to replace your koi)? Paula Speraneo S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124 Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 10:48:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07772 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA23470 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:01:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA23358 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990702140612.852.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 02 Jul 1999 07:06:12 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:06:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Monsanto Move--FYI To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1522 SANET, This morning the Wall Street Journal reports on recent moves at Monsanto. The company put NutraSweet and the rest of its food-ingredient business up for sale to pay for its $8 billion spending spree on crop biotechnology. It also promoted two top executives in a move that lifts responsibility away from Shapiro, the 60 yr old CEO. Verfaillie, current president of Monsanto and De Schutter, the co-president of G.D. Searle are the two with the promotions. They also were given seats on the board of directors. The number on the board was expanded by 2 to 11 for this. What does this mean? Some think it gives the agriculture people more say in the board room and is a consolidation of power around their life science focus. (Shapiro came from Nutrasweet.) The announcement lifted Monsanto's stock price 6.5% to $42.125 per share. This is still well below the high of $63.94 when the merger with AHP was a possibility. kate _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 10:51:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07855 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02285 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:17:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02278 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:12:12 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" , "'rgoldstein@CommunityMediaDC.org'" Subject: RE: Organic Pesticides-Resources Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:12:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1523 i think it would be useful if this question could be specified in some more detail . . . both in terms of what is being compared, and in terms of what are the bases for comparison first, assuming that "organic" refers to organic farming (rather than organic chemistry), one might want to compare the pesticidal substances which are allowed under various organic certification schemes versus the pesticidal substances which are allowed under usepa fifra/ffdca regulations . . . or, one might want to compare all of the substances used in an organic farming system of pest management (e.g., foliar nutrients, field architecture) versus all of the substances used in other systems of pest management (e.g., pheromone disrupters, sterile males) second, there are many bases on which to compare organic and inorganic pesticides -- breadth of spectrum, durability, avian toxicity, worker/operator toxicity, food residues, aquatic toxicity . . . just to name a few cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Ruth Goldstein[SMTP:rgoldstein@CommunityMediaDC.org] > Reply To: rgoldstein@CommunityMediaDC.org > Sent: Friday 2 July 1999 9:37 AM > To: 'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu' > Subject: Organic Pesticides-Resources > > > Hi- > > I am looking for research comparing organic to inorganic pesticides. Can > anyone point me to journal articles, a good book, or a good web site? > > Thanks. > > Ruth Goldstein > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 11:22:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08600 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:22:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09941 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:28:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA09834 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.209] (br-ppp03.hevanet.com [198.5.254.209]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10568; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907021427.HAA10568@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 07:28:54 -0700 Subject: FW: Dwarf Pear Tree: Another Genetic Engineering First From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , NAFEX List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA09855 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1524 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Dwarf Pear Tree: Another Genetic Engineering First Date: Fri, Jul 2, 1999, 6:57 AM STORY LEAD: A Dwarf Pear Tree: Another Genetic Engineering First ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Judy McBride, (301) 504-1628, jmcbride@asrr.arsusda.gov July 2, 1999 ----------- The first genetically engineered dwarf pear tree of an existing variety has been developed by Agricultural Research Service scientists. Dwarf trees are more productive than traditional-size trees and offer growers other advantages as well. ARS horticulturists Ralph Scorza and Richard Bell at the Appalachian Fruit Research Station in Kearnesyville, WV, dwarfed Bosc pear trees by inserting a gene originally isolated from a bacterium. The new dwarf trees are growing in greenhouses at the lab, and the scientists expect the trees to bear fruit in about two or three years. The bacterial gene can be used to dwarf rootstocks or to make the scionthe top part of the treesmaller or dwarf. According to Bell, the pear industry relies on only a few major varieties and needs to improve them. Dwarfing will do that. In addition to being more productive, dwarf fruit trees allow high-density plantings of smaller trees that can produce more fruit in the same area of land than the larger, standard-size trees. And they're easier to manage, prune, spray and harvest. Fruit from a dwarf tree is the same size as fruit from a normal tree. For those growers not interested in dwarf trees, Scorza and colleagues have developed a peach tree with a new, columnar shape. Perfect for the home gardener with limited space, the columnar tree has upright, narrow branches that grow close to the tree trunk without shading other fruit or vegetables that may be growing nearby. Like dwarfs, the columnar trees require much less management and will allow high-density growing. They eliminate the large space necessary between traditional trees. Therefore, chemicals and fertilizer need be applied only to a very small area, saving the grower money and reducing environmental impacts. Compared to traditional size trees, at least three times as many columnar trees can be grown per unit of land. These new treeswhich bear excellent quality fruitare expected to be available to home gardeners within the next few years. ARS is USDA's chief scientific research agency. A more detailed story on this research is available in the agency's July Agricultural Research magazine, available on the Internet at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jul99/fruits0799.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Ralph Scorza and Richard Bell, ARS Appalachian Fruit Research Station, Kearneysville, W.Va.; fax (304) 728-2340; phone (304) 725-3451, Scorza Ext. 322, Bell Ext. 353, rscorza@afrs.ars.usda.gov, rbell@afrs.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Jul 2 07:54:29 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA03946 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 07:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA27481 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 06:45:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hpamgaad.compuserve.com (ah-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.158]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA27432 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 06:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaad.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.5) id GAA16174; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 06:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 06:41:02 -0400 From: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com> Subject: Bananas To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <199907020644_MC2-7B88-1DA0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1525 Living on the Earth, July 2, 1999, Bananas Bananas. There are serious issues lurking in this tasty yellow fruit. In the past year, bananas have been in the news for two seemingly unrelated reasons: a trade war between the US and Europe and a conflict over a newspaper report on the business and agricultural practices of the world's largest banana-marketing company. However, both stories reveal concentrated corporate power exercising unseemly influence with serious environmental and social costs and a further loss of freedom. First, a little background information: Bananas are mostly grown in the tropics. Three giant, US-based corporations control 60 percent of the global banana market. The fruit they sell is grown primarily on huge, 2,500-to-12,000-acre, corporate-owned or contracted plantations in banana republics. On the seven Windward Islands (former European colonies in the eastern Caribbean), 24,000 farmers produce about three percent of the world's supply of bananas on small farms which average less than four acres in size. Apparently, these bananas are smaller, more succulent and more expensive than those produced in Central and South America by the US corporations. The European Union (EU) wants to import a small percentage of its bananas from these former colonies. It may be out of loyalty, because they prefer to support small farms and more environmentally-benign agriculture or because the workers in the islands are better paid and society there is more equitable. These are all good reasons! However, in the brave new world of global free trade, the only thing that can matter is the bottom line. According to a World Trade Organization (WTO) decision in March, the Europeans can't make their buying decisions based on anything other than price. A small minimum quota for fruit from their former colonies, like any other social or environmental considerations, is not allowed. After the WTO decision, the US threatened to impose a 100 percent duty on some imports from Europe, and the EU backed down. It is reported that the day after the US first took the banana issue to the World Trade Organization, the CEO of the largest banana marketer, one of this country's wealthiest men, donated half a million dollars to the Democrat Party. Of course he also gives generously to the Republican Party. Before it was the name for a chain of trendy clothing stores in upscale malls, banana republic was a derogatory term. In our Webster's New World Dictionary, a banana republic is defined as "any small Latin American country that has a one crop economy controlled by foreign capital." A year ago, the Cincinnati Enquirer published an 18-page investigative report on Honduras, a real banana republic, and the activities of the Ohio-based banana marketer which is controlled by that same politically-generous CEO. The report alleged that the company used military force and a corrupt local government to solve its labor and land problems, and that its toxic pesticides poisoned workers and ecosystems in several countries. The company sued, claiming that the story was based on stolen voice-mail tapes. As a result, the Enquirer fired the reporter, ran a front-page apology for three days and paid $10 million to the banana company (enough to buy lots more government favors). That discouraged discussion of the serious environmental, social and political issues the report raised. These events have serious implications for the environment, for small farms and for democracy. They imply restrictions of our freedom to chose to support social and environmental benefits and to know about bad behavior that might discourage us from buying particular products. This seems especially unfortunate. Independence Day rings increasingly hollow as enormously concentrated corporate and personal power and wealth eats away at our democracy. Here's food for thought as we celebrate the Fourth of July and yet another good reason to support and eat from local organic gardens and farms. This is Bill Duesing, Living on the Earth (C)1999, Solar Farm Education, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 Bill and Suzanne Duesing operate the Old Solar Farm (raising NOFA/CT certified organic vegetables) and Solar Farm Education (working on urban agriculture projects in southern Connecticut and producing "Living on the Earth" radio programs). Their collection of essays Living on the Earth: Eclectic Essays for a Sustainable and Joyful Future is available from Bill Duesing, Box 135, Stevenson, CT 06491 for $14 postpaid. These essays first appeared on WSHU, public radio from Fairfield, CT. New essays are posted weekly at http://www.wshu.org/duesing and those since November 1995 are available there. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 20:24:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA03838 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA18592 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:51:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA18588 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA25226; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:51:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-144.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.144) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025212; Fri Jul 2 18:50:27 1999 Message-ID: <000d01bec4e5$1f431f00$90fd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Manjula Guru" Subject: Re: Information is needed. Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:46:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1526 Please post some of your findings to the list, I think this is a very interesting topic. Thanks Beth -----Original Message----- From: Manjula Guru To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 12:55 PM Subject: Information is needed. >Dear SANET Friends, > We are looking for data that compares the cost of hybrid seeds to the cost >of various genetically modified seeds. Also, we would like to know how much >is received for the product at the market. Yield comparisons are also needed. > If you have any information or sources please let us know. We are >preparing for a Senate hearing in Oklahoma and desire to present our >economic concerns as well as all the other issues surrounding the dangers >we see. > > > >***************************************************************** >Manjula V. Guru >Ag. Economist, >The Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture, Inc. >P.O.Box 588, Hwy. 271 South,Poteau, OK 74953. >Phone: (918)647-9123 >Fax: (918) 647-8712. >Email: manjula@kerrcenter.com >To use, to understand, to love the soil, is a civilizing process. > - Robert S. Kerr. >****************************************************************** > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 2 20:48:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA04081 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA09201 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:24:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA09178 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d20-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.20]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA29732; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:23:58 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?T=F8rk_Haxthausen?=" , Subject: plain text/HTML/Outlook Express/ hi Tork, others Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 10:27:54 +1000 Message-ID: <000401bec4ea$e4a59200$143325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <000f01bec47f$5b29a860$aa9764c3@fujitsu> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1527 Tork I find the easiest way to get text into an email message is to copy and paste between applications. Also, you are sending messages in HTML rather than plain text, and people whose email software does not handle HTML will get a mess of ASCI characters across the screen around the text. In the address book in Outlook Express, you will see a box to tick to say send messages to this address in plain text only. If you put Sanet in the address book with that box ticked, you can still write to others in HTML but all your messages to Sanet will be in plain text. Or, if you look under Format among the pull down menus at the top of your screen, you can alter your settings to send all messages in plain text. The problem with Outlook Express, when you install it is that, as I recall, its default setting is for mail to be in HTML, and to avoid sending junk to listservers, you have to undo that setting, at least for mail to listservers. Even if the listserver itself knows how to deal with HTML (and not all of them do), not every computer to which it forwards mail will be able to do so. best wishes Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 3 13:39:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14681 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA13668 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:04:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA13631 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:04:46 -0400 (EDT) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id lMQZa09311 (305); Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 13:04:03 EDT Subject: Re: greetings and homegardens To: kirchner@asrr.arsusda.gov, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1528 The Intervale in Burlington, Vermont, is home to a wide variety of gardening enterprises, I will see if they have a web site to refer you to. The non-profit Intervale Foundation was created by Gardener's Supply, a for-profit corporation. It has become a great example of interaction between farmers and an urban population. Ann Gras To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 3 15:54:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17103 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA05220 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:08:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pws.gamewood.net (pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA05140 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0104.gamewood.net [206.229.249.35]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06970 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:07:35 -0400 Message-ID: <005101bec5a1$28e8bb20$23f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: pork production Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:12:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BEC566.7BE9AB80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1529 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BEC566.7BE9AB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list, I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / Organic chicken, organic = beef , eggs, and such for sale, and was thinking about ways to produce = pork that would be of interest to CSA members or other discerning = consumers concerned with the safety, nutrition, and flavor of their food = and the environment. Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I have no desire to = build a multimillion $$ building and lagoon, but am interested in some = form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a Hoop = House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would be = bedded on wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would be = composted. Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop house idea was given to = me from a friend who thought there was something on it on the internet, = but I can't find it. Any feedback from others who sell meat as part of their farm operations? Also could use some info. on what is considered "organic" health care of = livestock. Can vaccinations be used? Are antibiotics allowed for = treatment of breeding animals (talking about injections to combat a = specific illness, not preventative doses)?=20 If I take on this enterprise, I doubt that the pigs would be "organic" = due to lack of available Organic feeds, but want to raise them to appeal = to the "No additives, hormones, or antibiotics" crowd. Amy Long Island VA akjedj@gamewood.net ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BEC566.7BE9AB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Dear list,
     
    I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / = Organic=20 chicken, organic beef , eggs, and such for sale, and was thinking about = ways to=20 produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or other = discerning=20 consumers concerned with the safety, nutrition, and flavor of their food = and the=20 environment.
     
    Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I = have no=20 desire to build a multimillion $$ building and lagoon, but am interested = in some=20 form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a Hoop = House=20 farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would be bedded on = wood=20 chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would be=20 composted.
     
    Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop house = idea was=20 given to me from a friend who thought there was something on it on the = internet,=20 but I can't find it.
     
    Any feedback from others who sell meat as part of = their farm=20 operations?
     
    Also could use some info. on what is considered "organic" health = care of=20 livestock. Can vaccinations be used? Are antibiotics allowed for = treatment of=20 breeding animals (talking about injections to combat a specific illness, = not=20 preventative doses)?
     
    If I take on this enterprise, I doubt that the pigs would be = "organic" due=20 to lack of available Organic feeds, but want to raise them to appeal to = the "No=20 additives, hormones, or antibiotics" crowd.
     
    Amy
    Long Island VA
    akjedj@gamewood.net
    ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BEC566.7BE9AB80-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 3 17:15:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA17575 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 17:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA07908 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 16:46:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07844 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 16:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-8.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.56]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA05399; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:49:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199907032049.PAA05399@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Amy and Eric Johnson" , "sanet-mg" Subject: Re: pork production Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 15:48:05 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1530 If production is going to be seasonal, I would strongly suggest against any permanent buildings. It takes a lot of consumer education to convince people that the highest quality pork is those that graze all summer and are "harvested" in late fall or early winter. That is what nature intends. Once you see pigs on pasture you will wonder why anyone raises them any other way. They require more management. No argument there. I would check the archives. I think in a previous post I suggested Leopold Center in Iowa, ATTRA, Texas Tech (?) for warm climate farrowing, and www.grassfarmer.com for some information on free range hog production. Yes, I'm biased. The pig information on American Farmland Trust's grassfarming site is mine. Pigs will work excellent on pasture. The biggest things required are proper genetics, proper management(work with nature not against), excellent fences, and quality of forage. And actually, contrary to what people think, farrowing on pasture is the easy part. Proper management and correct genetics will get you just as many pigs as the best building. The hard part on free range hog production is maintaining pastures with market hogs. Good luck, Greg ---------- From: Amy and Eric Johnson To: sanet-mg Subject: pork production Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 5:12 PM Dear list, I hear of plenty of folks raising free-range / Organic chicken, organic beef , eggs, and such for sale, and was thinking about ways to produce pork that would be of interest to CSA members or other discerning consumers concerned with the safety, nutrition, and flavor of their food and the environment. Having worked on commercial hog farms in the past, I have no desire to build a multimillion $$ building and lagoon, but am interested in some form of "Pasture Pig" production system possibly combined with a Hoop House farrowing "barn" with a concrete floor where the sows would be bedded on wood chips or straw, and the waste and soiled bedding would be composted. Anyone ever hear of anything similar? The hoop house idea was given to me from a friend who thought there was something on it on the internet, but I can't find it. Any feedback from others who sell meat as part of their farm operations? Also could use some info. on what is considered "organic" health care of livestock. Can vaccinations be used? Are antibiotics allowed for treatment of breeding animals (talking about injections to combat a specific illness, not preventative doses)? If I take on this enterprise, I doubt that the pigs would be "organic" due to lack of available Organic feeds, but want to raise them to appeal to the "No additives, hormones, or antibiotics" crowd. Amy Long Island VA akjedj@gamewood.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 3 21:39:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19419 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA25015 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:21:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from server2.CandW.ag ([205.160.233.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA24958 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from candw.ag ([205.160.233.93]) by server2.CandW.ag (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05042 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:20:06 +0400 (GMT) Message-ID: <377E9C2A.EA4794BE@candw.ag> Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 20:26:34 -0300 From: Jennifer Maynard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: How to Grow Mesclun or Baby salad Greens References: <199907032210.SAA02191@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1531 I live in the Caribbean and wish to grow mesclun. I your name on the Web. I would say I am in Zone 11, I believe and would really be happy if I could find someone who could help me. I need information on the yield of baby salad greens or mesclun in pounds per foot, or square foot etc. How many people can eat from a pound of mesclun. I have an idea of the number of side salad and meal salad servings per pound, but I need this verified. I also want to know to know yield per area if one plants a variety that can be cut three times, and one that can be cut twice. Also I need be clear on the depth of soil that the whole plant requires, do you plant them in 3 inches or 6 inches of soil, or do they need more depth? I assume as they do not head that (i.e. 3 inches) is enough. Also how many cuttings can a plant survive before it bolts, or dies, etc. Also tell me how much of each type should be planted, i.e. the proportions planted and how they translate into the proportions in the actual mix. I need to be able to determine how much seed I need to purchase say for 100 lbs yield per harvest. What are the best varieties for Zone 11? I had searched the web, and I have gleaned info on varieties for a number of garden writers and Extension Bulletins on the Web. But, I cannot find the yield data and spacing data that one would need to prepare a production plan, an investment plan or a financing plan or feasibility study. Tell me of any other seed I would need to purchase to develop of my own brand of Mesclun. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Could you suggest the seed that I should consider for a climate that is generally 75 to 85 degrees farenheight. As you see I live in the Caribbean so I am not able to visit USA farms an my extension agents know nothing of this crop. So any little piece of info can get or one can give me helps me to develop my business plan and decide how much investment I need to make. I am an agriculturist. I work with Government. I recently did some studies at Duke University in North Carolina. I was introduced to the Mesclun while there, I love to eat it and feel that there is a market for this product here, so I want to start it as a hobby, which may become my early retirement occupation. So any little thing you tell me will go far. Looking forward to hearing from one one who has even one piece of the information that I am searching for. Reply to Jennifer at email address: maynard4@candw.ag I congratulate any of you that are the European tradition of mesclun alive and increasing the palatability of our consumption of key vitamins and antioxidants by producing tasty mescluns and baby salad greens. Send info by e-mail to Jennifer Maynard. Thanks Much Jennifer To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 3 21:57:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19546 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA24542 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:07:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA24459 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:07:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA07395 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA10420; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 18:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-11.nidlink.com [216.18.141.18]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA09760; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 18:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907040106.SAA09760@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 18:15:00 -0700 To: BIOTECH-L@cornell.edu, mail@icsenglish.com, "Biotech Activists" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Response to Jonathan ?? In-Reply-To: <377E8A47.10B@icsenglish.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1532 Jonathan -- I have read the USDA report on Bt-transgenics and RR crops and am in the process of responding to it for Ag BioTech InfoNet (their is a link to the ERS report, and Jane Rissler's comments on it posted already on www.biotech-info.net; see "What's New?"). The ERS report makes very clear, in a preface to the tables, that their data is based on means of adopters versus means of non-adopters -- not a direct comparison of yields in comparable circumstances. RR soybean adopters (and Bt-transgenic adopters) may include a higher percent of large, technologically sophisticated growers; grwoers may be planting their RR beans on their better land; RR bean agronomic practices may be completed on a more timely basis, on average. These and other factors are not controlled for in the average yield comparisons made by the ERS analysts, and hence their caution to those reading the tables. We are close to posting a detailed analysis of RR soybean yield drag, drawing on several state soybean varietal trial data. Hopefully it will be posted by July 9ish. The report/section on Ag BioTech InfoNet will have links to several -- not all -- state soybean varietal trial reports for 1998. The data is absolutely clear and compelling -- the RR yield drag is real, and for some farmers a surprisingly serious "hidden tax" on the overall profitability of their operations. My review of the data suggests that the Oplinger conclusions understate somewhat the degree of RR yield drag on average, and for some growers, understate it significantly. The recent ERS report requires a careful reading. In a nutshell, no one (including Monsanto) ever claimed that inserting RR resistance genes in soybeans would raise their genetic yield potential, other things being equal. Presumably, most seed companies have sought to insert the RR gene/trait into the best commercial varieties for various regions/maturity groups. There are two ways that the RR bean version of the best commercial varieties could produce higer yields (as found in the ERS table and some varietal yield comparisons) -- * better weed control than otherwise attainable * avoid sulfonylurea and/or other herbicide injury to soybean yields (or weed management practice injury, like cultivation taking out too many plants) In all likelihood, the second factor is probably the bigger factor/more common explanation on those farms and those trials that show a RR yield advantage. Why? Because all the new chemistry, the price reductions and the guarentee programs have planted in farmers' minds a very high level of expectation for weed control; most fields are being managed for weeds very aggressively and successfully. But the actions taken can set the plant back, indirectly reducing yields below what they otherwise might be. Most farmers not using a Roundup based system are applying either sulfonylureas or imidazolinone herbicides which are known to cause some stunting/damage to soybeans earlier in the season, that reduce actual yields below potential yield in the absence of herbicide injury. That's one of the reasons why several companies developed IMI and STS soybean varieties -- to avoid carryover injury from corn fields treated the year before. On the issue of reducing herbicide use, herbicide tolerant varieties almost always result in increased reliance on herbicides as the major or sole weed management tactic. This, by definition, will increase herbicide reliance and use over time, unless the systems are so effective that they reduce weed pressure over time (unlikely). There are two ways that herbicide tolerant varieties could reduce "use." First, growers switch from a acetanilide (alachlor, metolachlor) or other "old" chemistry herbicides that are applied at .75 to 1.5 pounds a.i. per acre to Roundup-based system involving maybe .5 to .7 pounds a.i. per acre. This is not a reduction in reliance, it is a switch to more biologically-active and persistent chemistry effective at lower use rates. If the goal is/was use reduction, a RR bean system averaging in 1998 about 1 pound a.i. per acre entails almost 10 times the herbicide as some sulfonylurea systems, and at least 5 times more a.i. than several of the new low-dose herbicides like sulfentrazone. So any claims that RR beans reduce herbicide use always are incomplete without the phrase "...reduced COMPARED TO WHAT??" Second, growers plant RR beans and spot treat fields where weeds get out of control, using non-chemical alternatives in other parts of field, like cultivation. While clearly a possible option, this is being used by a very small percent of U.S. soybean growers. Results from the field this year are showing that in many parts of the Cornbelt, a full 32 ounce application rate of Roundup Ultra, or 1.5 pounds a.i., is needed to control velvet leaf and ragweed species, and that in some fields even the full rate is not working reliably. As projected by many weed scientists, the average rate of application and average number of applications will probably incrementally rise until weed shifts and resistance render RR soybeans not economically attractive. This will probably not happen for a few years because of the extraordinary price reductions that have occurred recently, and the prospect that generic competition in the Roundup market will drive the price per acre treated down as low as $4.00 to $5.00 from todays about $10.00 cost. A careful reading of the USDA data and report do not support a general claim that RR systems have reduced herbicide use, and experience in the field in 1999 suggests strongly that use this year will rise perhaps 15% to 25% above 1998 in terms of average pounds of Roundup per acre. This years average rate per crop year for Roundup in beans was 0.92 pounds, 1.3 applications per acre. In 1999, look for maybe 1.6 applications per acre and perhaps 1.2 pounds per acre on average. In 1998, the ONLY soybean acres treated with 1.2 pounds or more of herbicide active ingredient were -- * 2% acres treated with alachlor at 1.7 pounds a.i. (and probably another a.i.) * 4% acres treated with metolachlor at 1.7 pounds a.i. (ditto) * Some small portion of the 18% of acres treated with 1.0 pounds of pendimethalin, when the amount of a second/third a.i. is added in. * Some small portion of the 16% of acres treated with trifluralin at .91 pounds, when the amount of other a.i.s are added in. We will do the analysis next year when the 1999 field crop chemical use data is released, but I project that Roundup will be the major a.i. on 55-65% of the acres, and that on most of the rest of the acres, the average rate of herbicide use will be under 0.5 pounds. On perhaps 15% to 20% of the acres, the rate will be under .25 pounds. So COMPARED TO THESE SYSTEMS, RR soybeans will require about a 5-fold increase in use on a pounds applied basis. What is really needed is an "impact adjusted" measure of use and reliance, so that growers can more fully evaluate the consequences of their choices. We are working on such measures. More later. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 4 00:54:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA21047 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 00:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA13385 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 00:16:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA13372 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 00:16:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.39] [199.175.106.53] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m110dhP-000WSEC for ; Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:16:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:17:55 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: Monsanto sales pitch Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1533 This appeared on Doug Powell's agnet. Monsanto has certainly moderated their sales pitch. Notice the final sentence, the agent orange boys are now very concerned about unnecessarily killing insects. Winder what it's costing them to learn these new tricks? MONSANTO SEES ASIA WARM TO BIO-CROPS FOR FOOD SECURITY June 30, 1999 Dow Jones Joyce Teo SINGAPORE -- Charles Martin, vice president for corporate communications at Monsanto Far East Ltd. was cited as telling Dow Jones Newswires that Asia is warming to genetically modified organisms in agriculture and will step up usage of such technology over the next few years, because of the need to increase yields to achieve food security. Martin was further cited as saying that while already eating these crops, not all Asian countries are growing them, adding, Asian governments are "at various stages of refining their regulations as to what you have to do in terms of testing, the safety requirements (and) environmental requirements in order to grow these crops in the country. In the U.S., (GMO crops have) been approved for planting and in Asia, the only country that has planted GMOs is China." The story says that at the moment, Monsanto is selling its Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt, cotton seed only to China, the world's largest cotton producer. Monsanto is now conducting field tests on Bt corn in China, Thailand and Indonesia, and will target the Philippines later this year, he said. Testing and obtaining approval to develop and sell the seeds will take two to three years, Martin said. Martin said that GMO crops have clear benefits for Asian nations concerned with food security. He highlighted two specific areas: lower food prices through lower production costs and reduced usage of pesticides, which are both expensive and can kill a lot of insects unnecessarily. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 4 11:26:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24839 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06654 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06650 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907041453.KAA06650@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.125] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A536246302CE; Sun, 04 Jul 1999 09:52:38 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 14:51:03 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Monsanto sales pitch Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1534 On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:17:55 +0000, Maroc wrote: >Martin said that GMO crops have clear benefits for Asian nations concerned >with food security. He highlighted two specific areas: lower food prices >through lower production costs and reduced usage of pesticides, which are >both expensive and can kill a lot of insects unnecessarily. Cute. In practice this has indeed meant lower food prices, but through surplus production rather than lower production costs. Production costs (to the farmer) rise, while commodity prices decline. Inputs absorb an even larger share of the food dollar than before. Potentially good for the consumer (provided that marketers and processors somehow have a change of heart and actually pass on the savings arising from a commodity glut ...). Certainly *not* good for 75-90% of the farmers in a region. Certainly *not* good for the land, as parcels are consolidated and shifted to industrial production methods. Good for Monsanto (maybe), but not for anyone else, as far as I can tell. And how ironic that Monsanto is now promoting its biotech as the solution for all the problems that just a few years ago they said their chemicals *didn't* cause. ++++ "By their fruit you will recognize them ... Every good tree bears good fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. ... Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." [Christ, J. ca 30, Sermon on the Mount, cited in Matthew, ca 70, Ch 7:16-19] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Jul 4 09:48:51 1999 -0400 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24046 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:64164 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165350-280>; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:38:49 -0400 Received: from web.net ([192.139.37.21]:1291 "EHLO web.net" ident: "root") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with ESMTP id <165350-283> convert rfc822-to-8bit; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:38:32 -0400 Received: from gallo.dsuper.net(ip236.montreal10.dialup.canada.psi.net[154.5.20.236]) (31129 bytes) by web.net via sendmail with P:smtp/R:bind_hosts/T:inet_zone_bind_smtp (sender: ) id for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:38:52 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.103 1998-Oct-9 #1 built 1998-Oct-22) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 10:36:40 -0300 Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: Gary Gallon To: unlisted-recipients:; (no To-header on input) Subject: Climate Change Gallon Letter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Sender: cibe@pop.web.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1535 THE GALLON ENVIRONMENT LETTER Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment Institut Canadien du Commerce et de l'environnement 506 Victoria Ave., Montreal, Quebec H3Y 2R5 Ph. (514) 369- 0230, Fax (514) 369- 3282 Email cibe@web.net Vol. 3, No. 18, June 14, 1999 ************************************************************************** INTERNATIONAL INTERNATIONAL INTERNATIONAL ************************************************************************** GHG EMISSIONS TRADING GROUP LAUNCHED IN LONDON The International Emissions Trading Association (IETA), for greenhouse gases was launched June 4, 1999, in London, U.K. It was launched at the International Petroleum Exchange in London. Present at the launch were private sector representatives from all continents from industry and industry associations including the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, who was represented by Robert Redhead. The meeting was the product of 6 months of work by Frank Joshua, head of the UN's Emissions Trading Office (UNCTAD - Geneva), Bjorn Stigson, President of the World Business Council for Sustainable Development (WBCSD), Paulo Protasio, President, Latin American Trading Association (Brazil) and senior executives from BP/Amoco and Shell International. Much of the early work done for IETA in developing its methodology and protocol was initiated by Canada's Maurice Strong with contributions from David Runnalls, IISD and Janine Ferretti, Commission for Environmental Cooperation (CEC). The main focus of the meeting was to review and approve a 12-page legal document on the mission, objectives and structure of the IETA. Its mission is to be an independent not-for-profit association dedicated to "the development and establishment of effective market-based trading systems" that are "fair, open, efficient, accountable and consistent across national boundaries" for business. Among the objectives were a forum for learning and sharing information of actual experiences; hold events for business and decision makers to dialogue on trading rules, etc.; repository of information on trading and other market based approaches; identify emission trading opportunities; and be a forum for mediation of disputes between members. The organization clearly sees its role to be a business voice influencing national governments and the COP process. Initially IETA will be housed in the WBCSD offices in Geneva and incorporated under Swiss law. It will directly cooperate with trading bodies such as Emissions Marketing Association (EMA) in the US and similar organizations elsewhere. It will seek to promote the speedy resolution of the international negotiations on Joint Initiatives (JI) and Clean Development Mechanisms (CDM) as well as international trading. Membership fees will be $10,000 (US) for companies in OECD countries and $5,000 (US) for those companies from countries outside the OECD countries. The First Annual Meeting of IETA will take place in October 1999 at Bonn as part of Kyoto greenhouse gas reduction fifth Conference of the Parties (COP V). More information about emissions trading see the Technology Systems Analysis Programme (ETSAP) Newsletters on climate change at the website http://www.ecn.nl/unit_bs/etsap/newslet/ ****************************************************************** TRANSALTA LTD., ALBERTA IS CANADA'S REPRESENTATIVE ON IETA An eight person IETA Council of Management was elected at the meeting. It included the following senior executives on an interim basis pending the October 1999 meeting. o Paulo Protasio (Brazil - L.A.T. Assoc.) o Charles Nicholson (BP/Amoco) o Aidan Murphy (Shell International) o Dr. Robert Page (TransAlta - North America) o Nick Aldridge (International Petroleum Exchange - London) o Jed Jones (Lloyd's Register - London) o John Buttle (KPMG - Australia) o Simon Nyagba (Benue Cement - Nigeria) For more information about TransAlta's work on climate change go to its website at http://www.transalta.com/website/homepage.nsf?OpenDatabase ********************************************************************* ASSISTANT U.S. EPA ADMINISTRATOR TO LEAVE AND WORK ON CLIMATE CHANGE David Gardiner, the EPA assistant administrator for policy, is leaving the Environmental Protection Agency to become senior policy adviser to the White House Task Force on Climate Change. He worked for U.S. EPA Administrator, Carol Browner at the agency and will now help the President work on measures to meet the Kyoto Protocol targets. Source, Washington Times, 8 June 1999. For more information on the U.S. Climate change program go to the website http://www.usgcrp.gov/ *********************************************************************** ENERGY EFFICIENCY MEASURES RAISE PROPERTY VALUE By improving energy efficiency, the real estate investment and management firm Scribcor significantly increased the asset value of a bank office building for sale in suburban Chicago last year. At about $3 per square foot a year, energy bills for the 108,000-rentable-square-foot building had been running at least $1 per square foot a year higher than normal considering the area's high utility rates. An energy audit by Sieben Energy Associates of Chicago included analyzing utility bills, interviewing building staff, and surveying the building on-site. SEA first focused on operations and maintenance measures like tweaking equipment based on existing problems or potential new operating strategies. Next, the auditor identified load reduction opportunities and finally looked at more significant and generally more costly retrofit measures. SEA identified ten no- and low-cost measures projected to save between $10,000 and $20,000 annually and seven more expensive retrofit measures costing $300,000 to install but saving over $100,000 a year. Of these, the largest and most cost-effective opportunities were a lighting retrofit and air handling system measures. SEA used an hourly energy-simulation model for what-if analysis and accurate sizing of capital equipment. In all, the energy efficiency measures Scribcor put in place reduced the building's energy costs to $1.90 per square foot a year, a reduction of about 40 percent or $130,000 a year. Assuming a cap rate of 10 percent, such an increase in net operating income may have increased the building's value by as much as $1.3 million. Source, Environmental Design & Construction, May-Jun 99, p 44, by Roger Hill and Helen J. Kessler. Visit the SEA website at http://www.siebenergy.com For the full text of hte report go to http://www.edcmag.com/mayjune99_toc.html ************************************************************ THE U.S. MAY YET AGREE TO MEET KYOTO REDUCTION TARGETS Chief United Nations climate official Michael Zammit Cutajar said that despite disagreement between Europe and the United States on how to achieve the reductions of greenhouse gas emissions outlined in the Kyoto treaty, he expects a broad deal to emerge by the time the U.N. hosts the COP-6 meeting in The Hague at the end of next year. The United States favors making allowances for countries that help poorer countries reduce their emissions, while Europe wants limits to be placed on "`emissions trading'" to force countries to reduce pollution at home. Source, the article, "U.N. Official Expects Global- Warming Accord, Cites Need of U.S. Cuts for Success." Washington Times, June 11, 1999. For more information about the U.S. energy efforts go to the U.S. Dept of Energy's Office of Energy Outreach's website at http://www.doe-oeo.org/ *************************************************** GLOBAL WARMING TALKS TO BE HELD BY NATIONS' MINISTERS, NOVEMBER 2 TO 4, 1999, IN BONN Ministerial talks on climate change are set for 2-4 November 1999 in Bonn, Germany at COP 5 (fifth meeting of the Convention of the Parties). The ministers of environment and the ministers of energy will attempt to come to some agreements that are currently being hammered out by senior ministry officials from both the developed and developing countries. They just finished meeting for two weeks ending June 11 and will go back to work in Bonn from October 25 to November 2, when at that time, the ministers will arrive and finalize the deals to meet the greenhouse gas reduction commitments made at Kyoto. The last meeting was attended by some 1,500 participants from 147 governments and 152 intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations. The main outstanding issues must be finalized at the COP's Sixth Session, which will take place in late 2000 or early 2001. An offer by the Government of the Netherlands to host COP-6 in The Hague was welcomed by the participants. Many governments are awaiting the outcome of this vital conference before ratifying the Protocol and thus finalizing their acceptance of it. Over the past two weeks, government officials have paid a great deal of attention to the challenge of how the Protocol's three "mechanisms" for emissions trading, clean development, and joint implementation should function. A closely linked issue is the development of credible compliance procedures. Delegates have agreed on some of the guiding principles for a compliance system and have produced a questionnaire for obtaining the written views of governments in time for COP-5. For more information contact Michael Williams at ph. +41-22. 917 8242/44, fax (+41-22. 797 3464, e-mail mwilliams@unep.ch. Official documents are available on the Internet at the website http://www.unfccc.de ******************************************************************** PROPOSED PRINCIPLES FOR AIR EMISSIONS REDUCTION The Leonardo Academy has sent letters to the environmental agencies and energy offices in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, asking them to incorporate the Cleaner and Greener Principles into all future pollution reduction programs, including U.S. EPA-required plans to reduce nitrogen oxides (NOx, a pollutant that causes ground level ozone), fine particulate matter (PM2.5), and haze. The objective is to achieve full recognition of the environmental benefits of increased energy efficiency, renewable energy, combined heat and power, and sequestration in all air pollution reduction programsincluding currently committed emission reduction requirements, and all other future reduction programs. It recommends that all emission reduction plans, programs, and regulations should, o use a cap-and-trade approach to reduce emissions so that emission reductions receive their true market value. o reward all building owners and others for emission reductions delivered by their energy efficiency, renewable energy, combined heat and power, and sequestration (for pollutants where sequestration is possible) projects. Reward these actions with emission allowances from under the emissions cap. o allocate enough emission allowances to reward all emission reductions from these actions. 4. Use a multiple pollutant emission reduction reporting system to provide "one-stop" reporting of reductions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, mercury, greenhouse gases, and other pollutants. This makes it easy for owners and implementers of energy efficiency, renewable energy, combined heat and power, and sequestration projects to get credit for all emission reduction benefits they deliver. o give credit for early emission reduction actions from projects implemented 1990 or later. For more information on the Cleaner and Greener Principles for Pollution Reduction Programs, contact, Leonardo Academy Inc., 1526 Chandler Street, Madison, Wisconsin 53711, Ph. 608.280. 0256, Fax: 608.255.7202, email info@cleanerandgreener.org, visit website http//www.cleanerandgreener.org/CGPrinciples/ ******************************************************************* CANADA'S $150 MILLION CLIMATE CHANGE FUND The Climate Change Action Fund (CCAF) was established by the Canadian government to help Canada meet the commitments it made in December 1997 at the Third Conference of the Parties (COP3), an international climate change meeting, in Kyoto, Japan. The CCAF was announced in the 1998 federal budget, where $150 million was allocated over three years to support the development of an implementation strategy to meet these commitments and to facilitate early action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Activities under the CCAF have been divided into four components. Click on each of the following for a description of each component and its business plan. The first one is "Foundation Analysis", which includes the development of Issue Tables. It involves the development of a national implementation strategy via a multi-stakeholder consultation process. The second is "Science, Impacts and Adaptation". It targets research to better understand climate processes and to assess the impact of climate change on the regions of Canada and the options for adaptation. The third is "Technology Early Action Measures." It involves cost-shared support for the development and deployment of emission-reducing technologies. The fourth is "Public Outreach", which involves using public education and outreach activities directed at informing Canadians about climate change and encouraging them to take action. The operation of the CCAF is based on a number of principles, including building where possible on existing initiatives and mechanisms; early spending on immediate priorities while not prejudging the outcome of the national implementation process; leveraging and cost-sharing with the provinces and the private sector; concrete milestones and demonstrable results; and the development of a transparent process that engages all relevant federal departments and agencies and external stakeholders. Contact, David Oulton, Head, Climate Change Secretariat 55 Murray Street, Suite 600, Ottawa, Ontario K1N 5M3, ph. 613-943-2671, fax 613-943-2694 e-mail ccaf@climatechange.gc.ca Visit their website at http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/ ******************************************************************** CANADA'S BCNI WARNS ABOUT ATTEMPTS TO MEET KYOTO REDUCTION TARGETS As Canada's own voluntary measures flounder and its efforts to undertake serious greenhouse gas reductions lag, the Business Council on National Issues (BCNI) questions, "whether or not the arbitrary target of Kyoto makes sense...". BCNI states, "...that it does not believe such a commitment is realistic for Canada". And questions, "whether Kyoto can be reconciled with the other goals we have as a country". What is interesting is that the economic impact analysis by BCNI takes the traditional position of measure impacts on the energy and resource industries, those industries which are major energy consumers. BNCI's economic analysis did not take fully into account the economic benefits of energy efficiency and technology innovation leading to competitive advantage. BCNI's position and the full opinion can be found in the Business Council on National Issues, newsletter called, "Opinions", 1999, Number One, entitled, "Meeting the Climate Change Challenge", 90 Sparks Street Suite 806, Ottawa, Ontario K1P 5B4, Ph. (613) 238-3727, fax (613) 236-8679. Contact John Dillon at email jdillon@bcni.com, ********************************************************************* STUDY ON GLOBAL AVAILABILITY OF GHG TECHNOLOGIES Canada's Climate Change Secretariat, under the direction of David Oulton, is conducting a study entitled, "An Assessment of the Global Availability of Greenhouse Gas Mitigation Technology", for its Issues Table #1 on Technology. The study will help the issue table develop a workplan for Canada which is assessing the global availability of such technologies and assessing the need for these technologies in Canada for companies working in both the domestic and international markets, and assessing measures that have already been used either in Canada or aborad to advance technology innovation. Based on the Climate Change Secretariats findings from the Technology Table, an options paper will be prepared for the federal government to consider in meeting its Kyoto Protocol commitment. For more information visit the Climate Change Secretariat's website at http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/ ********************************************************************* INSURANCE AND FINANCE COMPANIES TAKE NEXT STEP ON ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE Over 120 financial services executives (insurers, investment companies, banks, brokers and pension funds) from Africa, Asia, North America and Europe are met in Oslo, Norway, with the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), June 10 and 11, 1999, to discuss the insurance and investments industries and the global environment. Entitled "Natural Capital at Risk", this year's annual meeting of the United Nations Environment Programme's Insurance Industry Initiative will explore the linkages between critical environmental issues and global economies affected by environmental issues like global warming. Klaus Toepfer, UNEP's Executive Director said that, "it is time for aware and active insurers and banks, acting as responsible global citizens, to move from assessing the environmental challenge to implementing solutions." The UNEP Insurance Industry Initiative has launched a study on the possible implications for insurers of the Kyoto Protocol to the UN Climate Change Convention in the second half of 1998 and the findings will be officially presented today. It suggests that the implementation of the Kyoto Protocol offers business opportunities for the insurance sector once the modalities have been adopted. "The climate debate remains one of the most important issues for the insurance sector", says Age Korsvold, President and CEO of Storebrand Insurance, host of the meeting. The insurance industry reports that environmental disasters around the world annually caused the death of 50,000 people and cost an estimated US $90 billion to the nations' economies." Dr. Juergen Zech, Chairman of the Gerling Group, stated that, "insurance managers should feel encouraged to take a leading role in the post-Kyoto dialogue. Economic and financial expertise is required in the political discussion and insurers and banks would contribute from an almost neutral position as their business is fairly clean." ************************************************************* US $100 MILLION ENVIRONMENTAL INVESTMENT BY FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS Dr. Juergen Zech, Chairman of the Gerling Group announced that eight major financial institutions had agreed to launch a joint US $100 million investment initiative called, "Sustainability Investment Partners" (SIP). "Gerling believes that there are important opportunities in the sector, especially when we can combine the expertises of such a broad group of leading companies. We have decided to invest in the new Sustainability Fund because we believe that sustainable companies are generally better managed", he said. The Oslo conference is expected to mark a watershed in the evolution of the insurance industry's stance on the environment. Insurance executives who have worked in cooperation with UNEP since 1995 are now advancing to a higher level of partnership. For more information contact, Aiko Bode, Co-ordinator UNEP Insurance Industry Initiative, Tel.+41.22.917-8197; email aiko.bode@unep.ch or Robert Bisset, UNEP Information Officer, Nairobi, email robert.bisset@unep.org ******************************************************************* NEW YORK REQUESTS GREEN TECHNOLOGY PROPOSALS The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) is now accepting proposals for residential, commercial, and institutional building projects that develop, evaluate, demonstrate, or introduce green technologies in New York State. NYSERDA has US $500,000 available to support three types of projects; first, projects that develop and demonstrate innovative tools, protocols, and practices for designing or evaluating green buildings; second, projects that develop or demonstrate innovative green building products; or third, projects involving detailed engineering feasibility studies of commercially available energy efficient technologies to make new or existing buildings greener. NYSERDA will fund up to 50 percent of a project's total cost, but all proposed projects must yield energy, environmental, and economic benefits in New York State. NYSERDA is accepting short proposals through July 12 and, after review, will request full proposals due in September. For specifics, email Bob Carver rmc@nyserda.org Other NYSERDA opportunities can be found at the website http://www.nyserda.org/rddopps.html Source, GreenClips, ************************************************************* NUCLEAR ENERGY INSTITUTE ACCUSED OF "GREENWASH" WASHINGTON, D.C. December 10 -/E-Wire/-- The Better Business Bureau of America ruled that a Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI) advertising campaign, which touted nuclear energy as "environmentally clean," was inaccurate. The BBB recommended that the nuclear industry trade group refrain from making such claims. The NEI's advertisements, which have been published in the New York Times, the Washington Post and other major newspapers and magazines, make the claim that "Nuclear energy generates electricity without polluting the air and water" and that it is "environmentally clean." The BBB, however, concluded that nuclear plants do cause thermal water pollution and that the processes needed to produce the uranium-enriched fuel for nuclear plants cause air pollution. The Better Business Bureau recommended that water and air pollution claims be carefully qualified to avoid any potential for consumer confusion and that broad, unqualified claims that nuclear energy is `Environmentally Clean' or produces electricity `without polluting the environment' be discontinued." Moreover, the BBB said that the "environmentally clean" claim is "premature at best," because as yet there is no permanent disposal system for highly radioactive waste created by nuclear plants. "Given the potential health and safety problems associated with exposure to radioactive materials, until the questions regarding a permanent repository for radioactive waste are resolved, NAD recommends that the advertiser refrain from using overly broad claims that nuclear energy is `Environmentally Clean' or produces electricity `without polluting the environment.' " For more information contact Auke Piersma, ph. 202-546-4996, Ext. 318 or Booth Gunter, ph. 202-588-7741 Go to the website for the full story at http://ens.lycos.com/e-wire/December/dec109803.html ************************************************************** GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTIONS IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES It is clear that the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change and the Kyoto Protocol affirm that "differentiated" responsibilities should be borne by industrialized and developing countries. Yet it is equally clear that fulfilling the objective of these agreements -- preventing dangerous climate change will necessarily require developing countries and those from the Eastern block to participate in the solution. The resulting stalemate between nations over the timing and nature of developing country and Eastern country participation has led to an increasingly acrimonious negotiating atmosphere. The stalemate stems, at least in part, from a default assumption evident in the current political debate that a developing country commitment would take the same basic form as an industrialized country commitment -- a limitation on the absolute level of GHG emissions. Of course, one key difference is assumed -- a developing country commitment would likely be expressed as a "growth cap" set at some level above the country*s current emissions level to allow for economic development. In this workshop, The World Resources Institute (WRI) has presented an alternative to "growth caps" in the form of a greenhouse gas intensity indicator, which expresses a country's emissions per unit of economic output. For more information about WRI's ongoing climate change activities, visit http//www.wri.org/wri/. The full article, "What Might a Developing Country Climate Commitment Look Like?" at http//www.wri.org/wri/climate/commit.html ************************************************************ EUROPEAN AUTO INDUSTRY VOLUNTEERS 25% CUT IN GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS The European Commission endorsed an offer by the European auto industry to voluntarily cut carbon dioxide (CO2) pollution from its cars by about 25% by improving fuel consumption. The voluntary deal was reached after European Union governments threatened to impose legally-binding pollution limits on vehicle manufacturers. The members of the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (ACEA) voluntarily agreed to cutting the amount of CO2 in exhaust fumes to an average 140 grams per km by 2008. The Commission said the current average in the 15-nation EU was 186g CO2/km in 1995. The voluntary agreement will oblige car makers to reduce the average fuel consumption of their fleet to six litres per 100 kilometres for petrol engines and 5.3 litres per 100 km for diesel vehicles. ACEA said it believed it could bring CO2 emissions down to 165- 170g/km by 2003, when it would see if it could meet the tougher target sought by the EU of 120g CO2/km by 2012. ****************************************************************** EU CONFERENCE ON PROMOTING RENEWABLE ENERGY,TO REDUCE GHG A Kick-off Conference for the European Union Renewable Energy Strategy, entitled, "Implementing Renewable Energy in the 21st Century", was held May 1999. The objective is to double the use of renewable energy in the European Union from the current 6% of energy use to 12% by the year 2010. This objective was set out in in the European Commission White Paper for a Community Strategy and Action Plan. The European Commission will establish the framework, provide some financial and technical assistance, and co- ordinate actions. Both public and private sector contributions will be enlisted to meet the objectives which tie in with the efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions per the Kyoto reduction targets. Included in the GHG reduction goals are to provide, o One million Photovoltaic systems o 15 million metres squared of solar collectors o 10,000 MW of wind turbine generators o 10,000 MW of CHP biomass installations o One million dwellings heated by biomass o 1,000 MW of biogas installations o 5 million tonnes of liquid biofuels For more information you can contact Maringels Prez-Latorre Head of section, New and Renewable Energy Sources, European Commission DGXVII email sustain@emml.co.uk Go to website http://www.emml.com ******************************************** *************************************************************** $180.90 ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION TO THE GALLON ENVIRONMENT LETTER Subscribe to "The Gallon Environment Letter". The 8 to 10 page newsletter is loaded with up to date business and policy information that your company, government agency, or organization can use immediately. It is provided twice a month. It is also accompanied by the "Green Jobs Available Report" that is sent to you once a month. Subscribe now. Send a cheque for $180.90 a year ($169.00+ $11.90 GST) and help finance the research that delivers inside information and breaking news on environment business in Canada and the world. Make your cheque out to, "Gallon Letter", 506 Victoria Ave., Montreal, Quebec, H3Y 2R5. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Copyright (c) 1999 Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment, Montreal All rights reserved. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Jul 4 03:29:09 1999 -0400 Received: from fastnet.magiclink.com (fastnet.magiclink.com [199.104.22.8]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id DAA22145 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 03:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907040729.DAA22145@luna.oit.unc.edu> Received: from 199.104.22.2.magiclink.com [207.14.200.165] by fastnet.magiclink.com (SMTPD32-4.07) id A3B41D3C00C6; Sun, 04 Jul 1999 00:48:20 MDT Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Outrider" To: "Farmer's Market Online" Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 00:41:48 +0000 X-Distribution: Bulk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Farmer's Market Online V4#50 Farm/Garden Edition Reply-to: manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1536 FARMER'S MARKET ONLINE Vol. 4 #50 Copyright _ 1999 Outrider News Service. "All Rights Reserved" mailto:marketfarm@aol.com http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com Published weekly in two editions: Food (Wed), Farm/Garden (Sat-Sun) July 3, 1999 Farm/Garden Edition _________________________________________________ ______MARKET SPONSOR: Business Opportunity What could you do with $1200? And a free computer? $245 investment puts you in business. Call 1-800-565-7364 3-minute recorded message will tell you more. Phone toll-free 24 hours a day 1-800-565-7364 __________________________________________________ EDITOR'S NOTE: We now have a search engine linked to our website, allowing visitors a quick and easy means of finding specific products or information. Go to the Market Entrance at http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com and click on the words "Click Here to Search the Market". This search link will soon be available in the directory banner on every page. CONTENTS Open Market Shopping Lists Booths __Farm Supply __Health and Beauty __Crafts and Gifts Bulletin Board __Fiberglass Doors __Definitions __Market Poll _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ ___SHOPPING LISTS___ http://www.farmersmarketonline.com/shopping.htm _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ CAN'T FIND WHAT YOU NEED? List it here. This space is available to shoppers seeking a specific item or items. Up to six items can be listed. Request shopping list form from MARKETFARM@aol.com or submit pertinent information. SUN-DRIED TOMATOES Date: 99-06-23 19:57:20 EDT From: goatboy@sylvaninfo.net (Cheesemakers) we are looking for a constant source of first quality sundried tomatoes for many of our cheeses at wholesale prices. Have other producers who need a source as well. Contact us online or call Bob or Jeff at 1-877-GOATBOY. Thanks. Bob and Jeff Drinking Swamp Farm Haynesville, Virginia COMPUTER CLOCK FOR RACING PIGEONS Date: 99-06-18 19:37:39 EDT From: Mia172@AOL.COM Hi, I am looking for a benzing computer clock for racing pigeons. Any idea where I can get one?? E-mail me back at Mia@aol.com Thankyou!! DRAGON FRUIT Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:08:06 -0400 From: Susan Miller Does anyone have extensive information about an Asian fruit called either Dragon Fruit or Red Dragon Fruit? Apparently it has the shape of a pineapple, a creamy flesh with tiny seeds. We only found it in Canada. Any info including nutrition data would be appreciated. soysue@home.com _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ ___THE BOOTHS___ http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/booths.htm _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ FARM SUPPLY Useful products for farmers and gardeners http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/farmsupp.htm _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ BARNS AND BACKBUILDINGS by Donald J. Berg A backyard builder's guide with 94 designs. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/barns.htm THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF COUNTRY LIVING by Carla Emery Comprehensive guide for living self-sufficiently. http://www.farmersmarketonline.com/country.htm GREENHOUSE BUILDING MATERIALS. Polycarbonate, fans, heating and misting equipment, etc. http://www.farmersmarketonline.com/sundance.htm GROWING AND SELLING HERBS by Outrider Books An introduction to growing herbs for market. http://www.webcom.com/outbooks/farm.html GROWING PROFITS by Michael and Linda Harlan How to Start and Operate a Backyard Nursery http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/growprof.htm GROWING PRODUCE FAMILY STYLE by Raymond Yoder. 96-page book about growing produce family-style. http://www.webcom.com/outbooks/farm.html HOME DISTILLATION. Hardware and Supplies. Make your own moonshine. Complete "Still" Package. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/still.htm HOOP HOUSE Greenhouse Kits. Do-it-yourself greenhouses made from formed tubing and 6 mil greenhouse film cover. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/hoophous.htm HOW TO BUILD A HOME IN THE COUNTRY. Advice from the past on building a country home. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/hcountry.htm ORGANIC FERTILIZER. N-Viro N-Hanced ALL Natural Organic Fertilizer. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/nviro.htm SEEDS, exotic. Specializing in Hot Peppers. Habanero, Peter, Purple, Ornamental, etc. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/seeds.htm SMALL SCALE BEEF PRODUCTION HANDBOOK How a small herd can add to your farm income. http://www.farmersmarketonline.com/smalbeef.htm WANTED TO BUY: Old Tractors. A primer on where to find old tractors and what to look for. http://www.webcom.com/outbooks/farm.html _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ Health and Beauty http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/health.htm _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ HERBAL EXTRACTS from Floraleads in North Carolina Sea Buckthorn Oil and Burdock Oil extracts http://www.farmersmarketonline.com/extracts.htm HERBAL TINCTURES AND TONICS from North Carolina Herbal products free of additives or synthetics. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/tincture.htm OMEGA BAR from Victoria, British Columbia Dietary source of essential fatty acids. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/omegabar.htm _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ Crafts and Gifts http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/crafts.htm _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ CANDLES made in Jerome, Idaho. Quality hand-crafted candles in a variety of scents. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/candles.htm CUTTING BOARDS crafted in Healdsburg, California Available in walnut, birch, Brazilian cherry and maple. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/wood.htm HATS made in Shoshone, Idaho. Handmade Polarfleece hats in 4 styles http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/hats.htm MINIATURE HAY BALES made in Elgin, Oklahoma Available in alfalfa, grass, straw and potpourri bales http://www.farmersMarketOnline.com/haybales.htm PHOTO ON A CAKE made in Wilmington, North Carolina Turn your favorite photos into frosting on a cake. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/cakeapix.htm SLIPPER-SOCKS made in Shoshone, Idaho. Made from warm, lightweight Polarfleece. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/slippers.htm STUFF PUPPIES made in Shoshone, Idaho. Soft, cuddly Polarfleece puppies. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/scraps.htm T-SHIRTS made in Ontario, Oregon. Made from high quality100% preshrunk cotton. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/order_ts.htm URLSHIRTS made in Licking, Missouri Wear your website. Put your homepage on a t-shirt. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/urlshirt.htm YARD ORNAMENTS crafted in Yacolt, Washington Personalized "Pumpkin Poke" stands 3 feet tall. http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/pokes.htm _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ BULLETIN BOARD http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/bulletin.htm _________________________________________________ _________________________________________________ ___FIBERGLASS DOORS http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/askbuild.htm DEAR TIM: I plan to install a new front door for my home. The fiberglass doors have my attention. They seem to have the look and feel of wood doors but not some of the problems. Some sales people tell me that the doors are basically maintenance free. Is that true? Can you really stain the doors to make them look like wood? What happens if the finish fails? Tony D., Leesville, LA DEAR TONY: You are on the right track when you choose to use a fiberglass exterior door. They have captured all of the positive qualities of different doors and packaged them into one product. Wood doors appeal to most people because they are so beautiful. Unfortunately wood combined with water usually produces warpage, rot, and premature finish failure. Anyone who owns a fiberglass boat will tell you that you can soak your new door for days and have no problems whatsoever. There are few totally maintenance free building products. Vinyl siding requires periodic washings because of air borne dirt, colorized concrete pavers can fade over time, and even your new fiberglass door finish will fail. Accept the fact that maintenance will have to be done. The trick is to keep up with it so that you can avoid a painful total finish restoration job. The stains and clear coat finishes that are supplied with just about every fiberglass door are similar to regular oil stains and clear urethanes that are used on wood doors. Sunlight, rain and exposure to the atmosphere eventually degrade clear finishes on any surface. The fiberglass door manufacturers are continuing to work hard to produce clear water based top coats that offer excellent protection. Some are now available with 5 year finish warranties. continued at... http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/askbuild.htm __DEFINITIONS http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/farmfres.htm Adult: A person who has stopped growing at both ends and is now growing in the middle. Air compressor: a machine that takes energy produced in a power plant hundreds of miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by hose to a pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last tightened 40 years ago and rounds them off. Electric hand drill: device used for spinning steel Pop rivets in their holes until you die of old age Fence: The difference between one yard and two yards. Hose cutter: a tool used to cut hoses a half inch too short. Inflation: Cutting money in half without damaging the paper. Oxyacetylene torch: device used almost exclusively for lighting various flammable objects in your shop on fire, or for igniting the grease inside a brake drum you're trying to get the bearing race out of. Phillips screwdriver: tool used to stab openings in oil cans or to round off Phillips screw heads. Tomorrow: one of the greatest time saving devices of today. ___MARKET POLL http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/index.html#Poll Last week's poll question: Do you farm or garden organically? 39 responses 17 said Yes (44%) 22 said No (56%) "No" respondents explained: "I use comerical fertilizer." "We did try for a while with our goats but found that there wasn't enough back up service and a lot of the ingredients are just not available in this country." "In this region of the desert, I am lucky to get anything to grow. Even my cacti hates this heat--temperatures are in the 110s to 120s. So to grow anything, organically or not, is a miracle." "Do alot with Jerry Baker's methods. They seem odd but really work!" A few of the "yes" respondents wrote: "Organic farming ensures future soil to grow on for our children." "I only have a mini organic farm, and my livelihood does not depend on it, but biodynamic soil improvement along with good intentions can bring about a crop that is so good, so nutritious, I may soon be able to give up my food supplements and still look 30 at 50 years old." This week's poll question: Do you farm or garden organically? To participate, send an email post with the word "YES" or "NO" as the Subject to poll@farmersmarketonline.com Or you can use our online polling station at http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/index.html#Poll Additional comments can be attached to your email post and will be posted on our Open Market page. Results of the poll and related comments will be published in our next issue. _________________________________________________ ___FARMER'S MARKET ONLINE (tm)___ Our email editions are available free of charge to any email address on request. Send an email to manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com?subject=subscribefmo To subscribe to the Farm edition only, send email to manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com?subject=subscribefarm To subscribe to the Food edition only, send email to manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com?subject=subscribefood To unsubscribe from both editions, send email to manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com?subject=stopboth To unsubscribe from the Farm edition only, send email to manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com?subject=stopfarm To unsubscribe from the Food edition only, send email to manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com?subject=stopfood Booth spaces and Farm Supply listings are available for $10 for 12 weeks, or $20 for 25 weeks. For Booth leasing information send email to fmobooth@FastFacts.net For Sponsorship advertising information, send email to manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com?subject=fmosponsor Sponsorship information is also available at http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com/sponsor.htm FARMER'S MARKET ONLINE Box 277, Shoshone, ID 83352-0277 fax (209) 396-8354 mailto:manager@FarmersMarketOnline.com http://www.FarmersMarketOnline.com From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 4 14:43:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27115 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07871 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:01:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07723 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:00:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Sprinkraft@aol.com Received: from Sprinkraft@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 7CUEa21891 (535) for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9504eec7.24b0fb2e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:00:14 EDT Subject: TRANSITIONS To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA07747 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1537 ACRES,USA For hard-copy subscriptions: 1-800-355-5313 T R A N S I T I ON S July 1999 By Steven Sprinkel Lincoln, Nebraska Running from Central Indiana over into Nebraska, up into Wisconsin and Minnesota, I have seen a lot of fine organic farms this season and met some ace practitioners of the organic arts. These farms come in all sizes and the farmers are growing a multitude of products. There are many traditional chemical farmers in transition to Organic. Livestock production is the newest form of diversification on many farms, and many feel that raising organic beef, chicken and swine for slaughter may be one crucial answer to a long-term challenge on the farm that most consumers would be surprised to learn about: surplus organic grains. Farmers like Dave Randle in Lebanon, Indiana and Dwaine and Lynn Rogge near Lincoln, Nebraska can attest to the difficulty of delivering organic grain at a fair price-and the problem of finding any market at all for wheat, oats and some of the corn. Farmers near Viroqua, Wisconsin, home to the Coulee Region Organic Production Pools dairy and fledgling meat cooperative, are under less pressure, particularly with all the new milk-cattle farms coming online this year under the Organic Valley label. A steady organic hay market would also be beneficial, everywhere. One modest exception in the upper Midwest is a bit more interest in organic corn for livestock-but this by no means should be taken as a signal to load up on corn in 2000. To do so might replicate the same error which many now recognize is endemic to the certified organic food-grade soybean deal. That deal still guides planting intentions from Pennsylvania to Kansas, but clearly the bottom has fallen out of a market which in 1997 seemed to be steady at the $20/bushel level, but now is generally in the hands of the buyers, with the price frequently wandering into single digits once again-when and if you can sell the beans. We can promote diversification all day long, but until there is diversified marketing, the picture will remain out focus. Clearly what is needed is a steady livestock-based production and marketing system, built on the CROPP model, but regionalized so that each state has at least three or four transportation zones within it to take advantage of the organic grains still in storage. Some grain has even been held over from 1997. As the organic wheat and oat harvest begins in the Midwest, perhaps the most crucial issue is finding enough storage on-farm to handle the new product. When the bins are emptied, far too much product is going to the conventional elevator. This brings up another related concern: limited local organic elevator storage. Many certified organic handlers of organic grain have appropriate cleaning facilities to screen the product, but these facilities are chiefly dedicated to food grade soybean handling, and rarely deal with small grains and corn, unless there is a system in place designed to provide a home for the product. That home may be the meat market, and it may come along faster than more elaborate grain processing, and marketing for human consumption as cereals, breads or pasta. There is certainly reason to believe that more could be done for pasta in particular. However, you may have seen the national television advertising for "Sunrise", General Mills new organic breakfast cereal: by all means go out and buy a box and help some farmer unload that grain bin. One often-heard response to these issues is that the consumer wont pay the price for organic flours for home-baking or for processed foods like pasta and cereal. Since this same thing was said about the fresh organic vegetable trade ten years ago, and that production sector now is much less hampered by price differentials, one would have to assume that the same can be done for the small grain market. Why do organic vegetables bring prices at wholesale that are more in-line with conventional than they were before? Professionalism at the production end, and enhanced post-harvest handling facilities and distribution. Are these same production attributes missing from the organic grain sector? Other than storage and transportation, I think not. What is missing is a commitment from processors, manufacturers and the retail sector to move more grain and make the cost at retail less because greater supply, in theory, should lower the price when demand is the same or improves as well. Consumers too should reverse the old adage and remember that we do not live by eating broccoli alone. Education is needed to teach consumers why conventional grains are not equal to organic grains, either on ones plate or in the field, and I am not referring to GMO versus organic crops. I understand that quite a bit of herbicide is used to kill-down the durum wheat crop in many regions, just before harvest. And there is only one way to keep nitrate levels from reaching critical levels: the use of synthetic soluble fertilizers must be drastically curtailed. Organic production wins-out not just in pesticide use, but in fertility inputs as well. I was talking with one organic farmer in Wisconsin recently about nitrate levels in his well water. When I pointed that his water was already at 8.63 PPM ( safe limit is 10 PPM), we started to go back over his yearly water tests. Much to our surprise, his nitrate levels have been going up one full PPM per year for the past 4 years. We performed a quick environmental audit: his well head could not have been better located, his manure management program was exemplary, and of course he was using no soluble fertilizers-and his 240 acre organic neighbor was not using them either. Add to that, his farm rests at the divide of two major river watersheds, so water courses from the surface or below ground should not have impacted his well. After awhile he said: " Well, the only thing I can think of is that the entire farming system around here has changed in the past ten years or so. There used to be 20 small dairies on my road, and now only two are left, But the whole township has gone to cash corn year after year, and that may be why the nitrates are going up so much." One mistake that we dont need to repeat in Organic is to become overly specialized, just as the now beleaguered conventional farm community is these days. The best example of organic grain and livestock production in situ that I have seen yet was on Jim Benders place in Weeping Water, Nebraska. Growing on nearly 600 acres, Mr. Bender also manages four small beef cattle herds, one on each of his four parcels. In his crop rotations one encounters wheat, oats and corn, fed on-farm, wholesaled soybeans ( with the splits coming back from the seed cleaner for the animals), and robust fields of 4-5 year alfalfa, permanent improved pastures, as well as large fields of sorghum Sudan grass, which is grown to about four feet before turning the cattle in to clear it off. The corn in particular was spectacular. Many know how wet it has been in Iowa and Nebraska this season, and a lot of the conventional corn has lost its nitrogen to run-off and leaching. Mr. Benders corn, on the other hand, was tall, green uniform- and had not been fertilized or manured prior to planting. What Mr. Bender has created is native fertility based on legume-based crop rotations. I think USDA Secretary Dan Glickman should walk Benders fields some day and tell me how this system is not far superior to anything else coming out of a fertilizer factory. Forget the environmental benefits. The cost of production at an organic farm such as this is more than enough reason to seed down a quarter of the acreage to alfalfa and give the combine a rest, as well as your therapist. I hear there is a sellers market these days in stress reduction and counseling, in the midst of a farm crisis that is turning out to be as dire as any we have seen in the past three decades. Finally, to underscore the benefits of consistent crop rotations in the organic Farm Plan, we need to assure that this most fundamental concept is guaranteed when the US federal law is finally implemented. As the Organic Foods Production Act of 1990 states: ORGANIC PLAN. The term "organic plan" means a plan of management of an organic farming or handling operation that has been agreed to by the producer or handler and the certifying agent and that includes written plans concerning all aspects of agricultural production or handling described in this title including crop rotation and other practices as required under this title. SOIL FERTILITY. An organic plan shall contain provisions designed to foster soil fertility, primarily through the management of the organic content of the soil through proper tillage, crop rotation, and manuring. I am not a big fan of prescriptive organic production standards but in the language noted above you have every right to expect that organic farming should be based on principles linked to the proven philosophies of Albrecht, the Rodales, Howard, Cocannauer, Leopold, Wallace, Jackson, Kirschenmann, Ford, Walters and any other of the bright lights of our organic farming heritage. The single, named and required attribute of the farm plan is crop rotation. Shall does not mean maybe. Canadian Organic Standards Canadas 1500 certified organic farmers have a national standard for organic production, and there are few complaints about what the standards are, from consumers or farmers. Canadian-grown and produced products will carry a seal which reads "Canada Organic-Biologique Canada", which will provide regulatory legitimacy for exports, once certification programs are finalized. Allan Graff, president of the Canadian Organic Advisory Board Inc. (COAB) was quoted in the Manitoba Co-operator, saying that the new standard, called the Canadian Standard for Organic Agriculture, will be a major boost to the rapidly growing organic food industry, adding, "It'll promote consumer confidence in organic produce." The Manitoba story cites COAB as estimating that the Canadian organic industry is worth nearly $1 billion annually and is expanding by 20 per cent a year. Graff hopes that organic products can be certified under the national seal later this year. One important feature of the Canadian standard is ISO-compatibility, which means it will be recognized internationally as well as domestically. Janine Gibson, an organic inspector, industry consultant and executive secretary for the Independent Organic Inspectors Association, said that " a huge demand awaits Canadian organic products certified for export. Although only one per cent of Canadians buy organic food regularly, 15 per cent of European and Japanese consumers are willing to pay a premium for organically raised products." Gibson, who also operates an organic farm near Steinbach, said the 26-page standard follows six general principles for organic production: Protect the environment Replenish and maintain soil fertility Promote biological diversity Recycle materials Promote health and needs of livestock Maintain integrity of food handling. That sounds like the basis for an admirable standard of production, especially if it is merely 26 pages long. Hooray for simplicity. One hopes that the next USDA National Organic Program Proposed Rule will be met with the same support, and have little in need of changing. USDA/NOP: Its That Time Again But it may be time to merely remember how often the last Rule was promised, only to wait for an extra three years for an abomination to roll out of Washington. Publication of the Rule is due in October. We have it on good report that the Proposed Rule is definitely a much better document than the first try, delivered at the end of 1997. National Organic Program Director Keith Jones has been sending drafts of portions of the Rule over to the USDA Office of General Counsel and to the Office of Management and Budget, so that other officials can sign off on portions piecemeal. We also observe, ironically, that the upcoming national organic standards are now seen as a top priority by the Clinton White House because of the GMO crisis. In this case its what the Proposed Rule will not allow, rather than what it will. Bill Lambrecht of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch Washington Bureau recently wrote that "Wherever the (GMO) debate sizzles, people talk about their right to eat foods with unaltered genetic codes. Rightly or wrongly, the United States is perceived as trying to deny the world that choice. That's where the government's new rules for labeling food as "organic" enter the picture. Officials hope the rules -- now being rewritten --will ensure a line of unmodified food for people here or abroad who want to know their food hasn't been genetically changed. Skeptics might view this approach as a fig leaf. And it poses some questions: For instance, will government-certified organic foods still be organic if they get pollen from modified crops growing next door? For now, the rules would enable the United States to skirt the question of mandatory labeling of GM foods, something that neither the government nor the biotechnology industry wants. "There's more than a touch of irony in the government's touting of its organic rules. For nine years, the Agriculture Department has found ways to delay the rules, which were ordered by Congress to govern the production and sale of organic foods.( And to be implemented by 1994!!) "But the delays have had something to do with an institutional disdain in the Agriculture Department for organic renegades who spurn the marvels of modern farming. Last year, the rules became hung up when the department left open the potential of bestowing the organic label on GM foods. "In a quarter-million responses, Americans said 'no' to that prospect. Now, the government is hoping that the organic rules will help rescue genetic engineering. With the U.S. becoming increasingly isolated in the global biotechnology debate, officials are looking for solutions. " Lambrecht concluded. Touch of irony? Act of desperation is more like it. Around three years ago, many in the organic community reminded the Label-the-GMOs contingent that GMOs were already de-facto labeled since genetically engineered organisms ( at least as of September 1996) were prohibited in organic production. However, the labeling issue is just as much a political battering ram as a consumer right-to-know concept. Although some felt that labeling was equivalent to giving Dr. Mengele the white-glove treatment: " What do you mean "label them"? We dont want them grown!" Labeling was perceived as a Marquis-of-Queensbury way of creating dialogue in high places, when in reality what was called for was crowbars against the machine. The folks in Sussex have had it right all along: tear up the fields. Their tactics seem to have gotten from point A to point B faster than having interminable Codex chats about it: now farmers in England would rather avoid the incredible bother, embarrassment and potential litigation should industry assurances turn out to be premature. And they have. An underwriting manager for insurance giant Cigna International suggested business insurers go slow on policies which cover GMO-selling companies. "Our experience with asbestos, PCBs and other "miracle" products in the past should have warned us of the potential dangers of diving into issues before we have an adequate awareness of the exposures," wrote Cigna official Maurice Pullen. "Prudence is, after all, meant to be the underscoring principle of insurance underwriting." American Organic Standards The Organic Trade Association authorized three of the most expert organic standards specialists in the US, Jim Riddle , Lynn Coody and Emily Brown-Rosen, to create a comprehensive standard for certified organic production. Earlier this summer, the American Organic Standards ( AOS) were released and can be viewed at . The AOS is an apt reference guide to the current status of organic production standards, with comparisons and alternative language offered throughout which captures variances as well as equivalencies on an international scale. Codex Alimentarius ( UN/FAO organic standards were adopted in Rome at the end of June), IFOAM, state organic standards ( Texas, Washington and others) as well as private certification standards were used to broadly summarize where we stand on materials, production and manufacturing practices, and inspection and accreditation criteria. The AOS was a monumental undertaking with arguably a much broader scope than the USDA is dealing with. International implications will be dealt with by the USDAs National Organic Program, but the AOS measures in great detail the complexities involved in export and product acceptance vis a vis certification and accreditation. As a sovereign state, the US is granted much power which does not need to be restated because other agencies and laws already obligate compliance which in the private sector needs to be more fully drawn. My own summary: at this point I would like to see not where we have uniformity, but where we dont, for example in the use of synthetic processing aids, or in allowing sodium ( Chilean) nitrate. One timely aspect of the AOS is a lengthy description of accreditation procedures, which are based on the ISO model. This season, the USDA is providing interim organic accreditation for US-based organic certification agencies in order to conform with a European Community deadline. The International Standards Organization model will be utilized, whether it is by IFOAM, the USDA, or any other sovereign authority. National Organic Standards Board: In Transition Although many substantive issues were discussed at the most recent NOSB meeting in Washington, DC, not much was resolved, and according to a few who attended, the decision-making process was hampered in part by some time-consuming, unusual lobbying activities from the livestock sector, some of whom stress the need for synthetic internal pesticides ( euphemistically known as parasiticides) in organic beef production. The State of Alaska also sent a contingent to argue for an organic label for wild-caught marine life. To be kind, its natural to be deferential to officials and big players in the trade, but the Board needs to keep to its agenda and conform to its own policies, or they will fall prey to the pleadings of the last person they talk to. In the same week, retiring NOSB board member Fred Kirschenmann and food quality expert Kate Clancy published an essay on materials and substances used in organic food processing. 'Keeping it "Organic": Making Sense out of the Processing of Organic Food.", was summarized by organic policy eagle Eric Kindberg as " an organic community dialogue on the Charter NOSB Final Recommendations regarding substances and processes used in handling organic farm products." What concerns Kirschenmann, Clancy and Kindberg is that, in Kindbergs words, "there are processing, certification and labeling provisions in the Charter NOSB Final Recommendations that are in conflict with the Organic Foods Production Act." As the authors wrote: "The NOSB failed to use this occasion as an opportunity to include certain processing practices among the ways that food produced on an organic farm could lose its "organic" integrity." In rebuttal, current NOSB member Steven Harper, and former NOSB members Gene Kahn and Craig Weakley, who all work for Small Planet Foods ( a conglomerate of Muir Glen, Cascadian Farm and Fantastic Foods) wrote back, objecting to " the authors' position that acceptable organic food processing methods should be based on some measure of the retention of the original integrity of the food produced on the farmAs an industry committed to changing the face of agriculture, we must not be influenced by the kind of thinking that would only marginalize our capabilities." The bottom line in all this is that the processing community does not want to depend on the " Made with Organic Ingredients" label capability when the " Certified Organically Produced" label prohibits the use of synthetic processing aids. In my opinion, if you keep the standard high enough, the producers, the ingredient-processing aid manufacturers, the processors and the certifiers will all rise to the challenge, a challenge that consumers demand of their organic food industry: No Synthetics. Go there. One Good Use for Organic Corn Many organic livestock producers are unknowingly using mineral, vitamin and feed supplements with some pretty strange things in them. Many farmers are not aware of the entire ingredient list in these materials, but the fine print on some of the bags can provide quite a shock: fish meal preserved with ethoxyquin, artificial flavorings, mineral oil, animal fat used as a flavoring in dairy cattle supplements and, of course, the unknown grain sources of many of the vitamins and supplements themselves. Before the GMO-era, organic livestock producers were given a broad exemption on using "natural" vitamins and supplements that were derived from conventional grain sources. Since Archer Daniels Midland, Cenex, Land O Lakes and Cargill seem to control much of the processing and distribution of the products and processes which provide vitamins and supplements, the organic livestock community is compromised by the fact that there are very few alternatives to the mainstream supplement manufacturers' products . After the recent dioxin scare in Belgium, it is incumbent on organic farmers to strive for adequate supplies of minerals, supplements and vitamins that are not the product of the conventional food monopoly. Clearly what is needed is internal supply of vitamins and supplements like, B12, methianone and lysine produced from organic sources. At the same time, we need to reassess the reasons why supplements are necessary. In many cases they prevent disease and enhance consistent production, for example in egg-laying operations. Generally my personal impression is that these feed additives replace the sun. It is the sun that provides Vitamin A and creates high levels of other beneficial substances carried in fodder plants which provide good livestock health. However, for many organic livestock producers the suns benefits are only available during the summer months. Storing the sun is difficult. Fresh green chop, organic vegetable debris, and grazing are some production methods which provide animals with high levels of immunity-boosting and production-promoting foods. Vegetable debris? When my farm was producing eggs, the 160-hen flock used to receive hundreds of pounds a week of post-harvest product that I wouldnt sell: cucumbers posing as watermelons, split tomatoes, cracked cabbages-everything but garlic, potatoes and onions went into the chicken yard. Just as in the challenge of organic processed foods not manufactured with synthetics, the organic livestock producers-and their input suppliers-need to observe this situation as a mandate for creative cooperation and rapid compliance with organic standards. -30- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 4 19:05:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA00022 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA28252 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:27:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA28231 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA22860 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 18:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-39.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.183]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA03951 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:31:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199907042231.RAA03951@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Subject: Questions on organic livestock standards Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:59:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1538 Steven Sprinkles latest article from ACRES that he posted on the Sanet got me thinking about current standards for organic livestock production. Can anyone answer the following questions or point me towards a list serve that would be more appropriate? Thanks in advance. Is it true that a day old chicks do not have to be hatched from organic eggs, yet all other livestock has to come from organic parents? No parasite pharmaceutical control programs can be used even if the active ingredient is derived from bacteria? I think there are two commercial parasite controls that are derived from bacteria. I've said before and I will say again that they may just be encouraging concrete production of animals as the only means to get around parasite control. I know that rotations are the best answer but how many have the required acres to make that work and still raise enough to support a family? I've figured out how to not use parasite control in my market hogs (with some variability in the pigs) but can't seem to get it to work in my sow herd that glean the same crop areas each fall. And how about treated fence post or treated wood in the construction of fences or buildings? Is that allowable or does it have to follow the three year rule? Just to let everyone know, I strongly believe the same way as Gene Logsdon on organic production. The standards should be so strong that none of the big companies ever want to join in organic production. The last proposed standards didn't do that. I think they need a statement requiring they meet the Animal Welfare Institute standards or some kind of animal welfare requirement ensuring no confinement production with an organic label. Any thoughts? Greg Gunthorp To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 5 10:46:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA03671 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17353 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:13:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17264 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26883>; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:18:47 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Liz Kirchner cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Jul5.091847cdt.26883@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:10:38 -0500 Subject: Re: greetings and homegardens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1539 "cityfarmer.org" is a Vancouver-based movement thats been in operation for about 20 years. They co-ordinate buying/selling co-ops, allotments, demo gardens, a composting demo site & CSA-type farming within their region. Their website has links to hundreds of sites around the world. Some perhaps more applicable, some perhaps less to your specific objectives.... Liz Kirchner on 07/02/99 02:39:30 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: Subject: greetings and homegardens Hi, I'm interested in knowing more about small-scale vegetable production in urban and urban-fringe areas. I'm especially interested in production and marketing cooperatives made up of small farmers/gardeners, their needs and their strategies. I wonder if any of you are growing and marketing vegetables in urban/urban fringe settings, working in or organizing co-ops or pondering any of these things. I'd appreciate any information, insight you might give me. Thanks and regards, Liz Kirchner To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 5 10:47:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA03679 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13230 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:08:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13226 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04011 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:08:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA14705; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:08:08 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma013483; Mon, 5 Jul 99 09:05:17 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:05:17 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDE7@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet Cc: "'Greg & Lei Gunthorp'" Subject: RE: Questions on organic livestock standards Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:05:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1540 Greg, > Just to let everyone know, I strongly believe the same way as > Gene Logsdon on organic production. The standards should be > so strong that none of the big companies ever want to join in > organic production. That's an interesting and revealing position. The bottom line in your vision of "organic" agriculture is social and political, not biological. IMO, trying to keep the aggressive entrepreneurs out of the game will be counterproductive. If there is money to be made in this business, entrepreneurs, small, and maybe large, will be interested. The real meaning of what you are saying is that you want to make the standards restrictive and contrived enough to keep real wages of organic farmers at about four dollars an hour. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 5 11:22:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA04047 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA10507 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:51:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10389 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04577 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-25.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.73]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA24283; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:54:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199907051454.JAA24283@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Wilson, Dale" , "sanet" Subject: Re: Questions on organic livestock standards Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:52:53 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1541 In the end, the only things that are going to work for small farms are going to be the things that somebody else can not or will not do. My family has raised hogs for at least four generations. Before the ARS, the land grants, and even the National Pork Producers Council got in on the research that has allowed mega scale, factory production a family could about guarantee that hog production was the mortgage lifters. Now we have 30-40,000 sow units popping up all over the place that I helped pay for the research to make it possible as well as yours and my taxes subsidised them to get started (Seaboard is an excellent example!) and we wonder why we have an extreme oversupply in pork production. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how these economic, social, and environmental issues are intertwined. I haven't give up on the hogs, its justs this last year has bankrupted a lot of family hog farms. I still stand by my original post. Make it extremely difficult and somehow I have faith that the small farms will figure out a way to support their family. Besides, if the goal was to get rich wouldn't we do something besides farming anyhow? (Don't get me wrong, I know a couple of people that farmed sustainably for decades that were treated very well. Most were either milk or hogs and we are trying to lose both as commodity markets.) We are going to end up as organic hog farmers. I just hope that organic standards do not allow confinement production. Partly because of rural advocacy issues but primarily because of animal welfare issues. Consumers purchasing organic products should be receiving animals that have had access to fresh air and sunlight. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer Member USDA Small Farm Commission Supporter of Small Farms and Rural America ---------- > From: Wilson, Dale > To: sanet > Cc: 'Greg & Lei Gunthorp' > Subject: RE: Questions on organic livestock standards > Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 9:05 AM > > Greg, > > > Just to let everyone know, I strongly believe the same way as > > Gene Logsdon on organic production. The standards should be > > so strong that none of the big companies ever want to join in > > organic production. > > That's an interesting and revealing position. The bottom line in your > vision of "organic" agriculture is social and political, not biological. > > IMO, trying to keep the aggressive entrepreneurs out of the game will be > counterproductive. If there is money to be made in this business, > entrepreneurs, small, and maybe large, will be interested. The real meaning > of what you are saying is that you want to make the standards restrictive > and contrived enough to keep real wages of organic farmers at about four > dollars an hour. > > Dale > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 5 19:34:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA10553 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA08052 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:58:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA08004 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP266.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.68]) by crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22826 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 15:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37813928.954203FF@sprintmail.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 19:00:57 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Questions on organic livestock standards Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1542 Dale, Dale, Dale, Shame on you for saying, "your vision of "organic" agriculture is social and political, not biological." If anyone is trying to turn organic (notice- no quotes) agriculture into a social, political, or even economic issue, it's not farmers and especially not organic farmers. Please to note that we are the ones who have preserved the real form of traditional agriculture through the past 60 years or so. Now that it's popular, all the money -hungry yobs want to get a piece of the action and want to define organic as a marketing ploy. It's all about land stewardship, long term management decisions and rebuilding our soil base. Not how many bushels or dollars per acre. As I've said earlier and as Greg said in a recent post, "Besides, if the goal was to get rich wouldn't we do something besides farming anyhow?" Those practicing agriculture do it out of love for the work and because they have a special connection and intimacy with the land, plants and animals, which is hard for those without the calling find hard to understand. Those who practice agribusiness do it for very different reasons, the main one being the acquisition of money wealth. And I'll take that $4/hour. It'll be twice what I make now working 80 hours/week, 9 months/year. Alex Poor in the bank, rich in the soul. "Wilson, Dale" wrote: > Greg, > > > Just to let everyone know, I strongly believe the same way as > > Gene Logsdon on organic production. The standards should be > > so strong that none of the big companies ever want to join in > > organic production. > > That's an interesting and revealing position. The bottom line in your > vision of "organic" agriculture is social and political, not biological. > > IMO, trying to keep the aggressive entrepreneurs out of the game will be > counterproductive. If there is money to be made in this business, > entrepreneurs, small, and maybe large, will be interested. The real meaning > of what you are saying is that you want to make the standards restrictive > and contrived enough to keep real wages of organic farmers at about four > dollars an hour. > > Dale > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 5 21:36:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA11920 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA22990 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:55:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from guppy.pond.net (guppy.pond.net [205.240.25.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA22983 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 20:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Pomri.efn.org (p3p3.pond.net [205.240.25.113]) by guppy.pond.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA18318; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990705175559.009a4100@mail.pond.net> X-Sender: omri@mail.pond.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 18:00:47 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Materials Review Institute Subject: Technical Advisory Panel Review of Organic Materials In-Reply-To: <199907052210.SAA07949@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1543 TAP Review The National Organic Standards Board (NOSB) of the US Department of Agriculture referred the following materials to the Technical Advisory Panel (TAP) for review the following substances to include on the National List of materials allowed for use in organic production, processing, and handling: Crops Amino Acids Ethylene used with activated charcoal for fruit induction in pineapple production Potassium bicarbonate for disease control Livestock Amino Acids as feed additives Chlorohexidine as a teat dip Enzymes as feed additives Glycerin as a topical antiseptic Lanolin cream as a topical antiseptic Parasiticides, including Fenbendazole, Ivermectin, and Levamisole Phosphoric Acid as a sanitizer Processing and Handling Amino Acids Enzymes, plant and yeast Ethylene gas for use on tropical dried fruit Magnesium Chloride (clarify 'refined' and 'unrefined') Waxes, including shellac, beeswax, and ammonium soaps OMRI has been contracted by the USDA to review the materials listed above. OMRI staff is managing the TAP process, and asks for scientific and technical supporting documentation scientific studies that help determine whether or not a given product is synthetic, and address the OFPA criteria. For plant crop and livestock production, the NOSB will consider the following criteria: (1) the potential of such substances for detrimental chemical interactions with other materials used in organic farming systems; (2) the toxicity and mode of action of the substance and of its breakdown products or any contaminants, and their persistence and areas of concentration in the environment; (3) the probability of environmental contamination during manufacture, use, misuse or disposal of such substance; (4) the effect of the substance on human health; (5) the effects of the substance on biological and chemical interactions in the agroecosystem, including the physiological effects of the substance on soil organisms (including the salt index and solubility of the soil), crops and livestock; (6) the alternatives to using the substance in terms of practices or other available materials; and (7) its compatibility with a system of sustainable agriculture. For materials used in post-harvest handling and processing, the NOSB will consider synthetic processing aids and adjuvants against the following criteria: (1) An equivalent substance cannot be produced from a natural source and has no substitutes that are organic ingredients. (2) Its manufacture, use and disposal does not contaminate the environment. (3) If the nutritional quality of the food is maintained and the material itself or its breakdown products do not have any adverse effect on human health. (4) Is not a preservative or used only to recreate/improve flavors, colors, textures, or nutritive value lost during processing except in the latter case as required by law. (5) Is Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) by FDA when used in accordance with Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP), and contains no residues of heavy metals or other contaminants in excess of the tolerances established by FDA. (6) Is compatible with the principles of organic handling. (7) There is no other way to produce a similar product without its use and it is used in the minimum quantity required to achieve the process. Please email any technical references or appropriate studies on the above materials to info@omri.org or mail information to OMRI at P.O. Box 11558, Eugene, OR 97440-3758 by August 3. Please do not call. OMRI is not seeking opinions, anecdotes, testimonials, or economic data, and this is not a public comment period for these materials. OMRI is seeking scientific studies and technical information that will help the NOSB make recommendations based on consideration of the above criteria. Members of the public may want to engage in a dialog about the above materials through various channels. Selected data will be provided to reviewers who will provide their comments and suggestions. OMRI staff will add their feedback, then send the TAP reviews to the USDA in time to be included in the NOSB's Fall meeting agenda, tentatively scheduled for October 25-27. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 5 22:46:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA13202 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA06717 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:10:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA06713 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:10:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from computer (ip128.ts13.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.86.128]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with ESMTP id WAA13231 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907060210.WAA13231@cyberus.ca> From: "Gord Hawkes" To: Subject: Snails Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:12:27 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1544 Greetings all. It's so hot here that chicken eggs are laid hard boiled ......... ta dum! Question on snail infestations. We have an apple grower here in the great Canadian north who has an infestation of snails on his apple trees. Any thoughts on why and if they need to be controlled? So far they appear to be causing no damage. Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, Ontario Canada K0A 2W0 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 00:35:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA15608 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA15073 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:01:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA15004 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 00:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.104] (dial104.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.104]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA06315 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:01:38 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:01:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: farm-scale vermiculture Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1545 Dear sanet, I'm looking for information on farm-scale vermiculture. Any recommendations on technical books or successful operations would be greatly appreciated. A local poultry farmer would like to research worm production as a way to add protein to his flock's small grain diet... Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Jul 5 19:38:59 1999 -0400 Received: from franklin.oit.unc.edu (franklin.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.59]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id TAA10623 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 19:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 10:36:40 -0300 Reply-To: "permaculture" From: Gary Gallon To: "permaculture" Subject: Climate Change Gallon Letter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Sender: cibe@pop.web.net X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id TAA10623 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1546 THE GALLON ENVIRONMENT LETTER Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment Institut Canadien du Commerce et de l'environnement 506 Victoria Ave., Montreal, Quebec H3Y 2R5 Ph. (514) 369- 0230, Fax (514) 369- 3282 Email cibe@web.net Vol. 3, No. 18, June 14, 1999 ************************************************************************** INTERNATIONAL INTERNATIONAL INTERNATIONAL ************************************************************************** GHG EMISSIONS TRADING GROUP LAUNCHED IN LONDON The International Emissions Trading Association (IETA), for greenhouse gases was launched June 4, 1999, in London, U.K. It was launched at the International Petroleum Exchange in London. Present at the launch were private sector representatives from all continents from industry and industry associations including the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, who was represented by Robert Redhead. The meeting was the product of 6 months of work by Frank Joshua, head of the UN's Emissions Trading Office (UNCTAD - Geneva), Bjorn Stigson, President of the World Business Council for Sustainable Development (WBCSD), Paulo Protasio, President, Latin American Trading Association (Brazil) and senior executives from BP/Amoco and Shell International. Much of the early work done for IETA in developing its methodology and protocol was initiated by Canada's Maurice Strong with contributions from David Runnalls, IISD and Janine Ferretti, Commission for Environmental Cooperation (CEC). The main focus of the meeting was to review and approve a 12-page legal document on the mission, objectives and structure of the IETA. Its mission is to be an independent not-for-profit association dedicated to "the development and establishment of effective market-based trading systems" that are "fair, open, efficient, accountable and consistent across national boundaries" for business. Among the objectives were a forum for learning and sharing information of actual experiences; hold events for business and decision makers to dialogue on trading rules, etc.; repository of information on trading and other market based approaches; identify emission trading opportunities; and be a forum for mediation of disputes between members. The organization clearly sees its role to be a business voice influencing national governments and the COP process. Initially IETA will be housed in the WBCSD offices in Geneva and incorporated under Swiss law. It will directly cooperate with trading bodies such as Emissions Marketing Association (EMA) in the US and similar organizations elsewhere. It will seek to promote the speedy resolution of the international negotiations on Joint Initiatives (JI) and Clean Development Mechanisms (CDM) as well as international trading. Membership fees will be $10,000 (US) for companies in OECD countries and $5,000 (US) for those companies from countries outside the OECD countries. The First Annual Meeting of IETA will take place in October 1999 at Bonn as part of Kyoto greenhouse gas reduction fifth Conference of the Parties (COP V). More information about emissions trading see the Technology Systems Analysis Programme (ETSAP) Newsletters on climate change at the website http://www.ecn.nl/unit_bs/etsap/newslet/ ****************************************************************** TRANSALTA LTD., ALBERTA IS CANADA'S REPRESENTATIVE ON IETA An eight person IETA Council of Management was elected at the meeting. It included the following senior executives on an interim basis pending the October 1999 meeting. o Paulo Protasio (Brazil - L.A.T. Assoc.) o Charles Nicholson (BP/Amoco) o Aidan Murphy (Shell International) o Dr. Robert Page (TransAlta - North America) o Nick Aldridge (International Petroleum Exchange - London) o Jed Jones (Lloyd's Register - London) o John Buttle (KPMG - Australia) o Simon Nyagba (Benue Cement - Nigeria) For more information about TransAlta's work on climate change go to its website at http://www.transalta.com/website/homepage.nsf?OpenDatabase ********************************************************************* ASSISTANT U.S. EPA ADMINISTRATOR TO LEAVE AND WORK ON CLIMATE CHANGE David Gardiner, the EPA assistant administrator for policy, is leaving the Environmental Protection Agency to become senior policy adviser to the White House Task Force on Climate Change. He worked for U.S. EPA Administrator, Carol Browner at the agency and will now help the President work on measures to meet the Kyoto Protocol targets. Source, Washington Times, 8 June 1999. For more information on the U.S. Climate change program go to the website http://www.usgcrp.gov/ *********************************************************************** ENERGY EFFICIENCY MEASURES RAISE PROPERTY VALUE By improving energy efficiency, the real estate investment and management firm Scribcor significantly increased the asset value of a bank office building for sale in suburban Chicago last year. At about $3 per square foot a year, energy bills for the 108,000-rentable-square-foot building had been running at least $1 per square foot a year higher than normal considering the area's high utility rates. An energy audit by Sieben Energy Associates of Chicago included analyzing utility bills, interviewing building staff, and surveying the building on-site. SEA first focused on operations and maintenance measures like tweaking equipment based on existing problems or potential new operating strategies. Next, the auditor identified load reduction opportunities and finally looked at more significant and generally more costly retrofit measures. SEA identified ten no- and low-cost measures projected to save between $10,000 and $20,000 annually and seven more expensive retrofit measures costing $300,000 to install but saving over $100,000 a year. Of these, the largest and most cost-effective opportunities were a lighting retrofit and air handling system measures. SEA used an hourly energy-simulation model for what-if analysis and accurate sizing of capital equipment. In all, the energy efficiency measures Scribcor put in place reduced the building's energy costs to $1.90 per square foot a year, a reduction of about 40 percent or $130,000 a year. Assuming a cap rate of 10 percent, such an increase in net operating income may have increased the building's value by as much as $1.3 million. Source, Environmental Design & Construction, May-Jun 99, p 44, by Roger Hill and Helen J. Kessler. Visit the SEA website at http://www.siebenergy.com For the full text of hte report go to http://www.edcmag.com/mayjune99_toc.html ************************************************************ THE U.S. MAY YET AGREE TO MEET KYOTO REDUCTION TARGETS Chief United Nations climate official Michael Zammit Cutajar said that despite disagreement between Europe and the United States on how to achieve the reductions of greenhouse gas emissions outlined in the Kyoto treaty, he expects a broad deal to emerge by the time the U.N. hosts the COP-6 meeting in The Hague at the end of next year. The United States favors making allowances for countries that help poorer countries reduce their emissions, while Europe wants limits to be placed on "`emissions trading'" to force countries to reduce pollution at home. Source, the article, "U.N. Official Expects Global- Warming Accord, Cites Need of U.S. Cuts for Success." Washington Times, June 11, 1999. For more information about the U.S. energy efforts go to the U.S. Dept of Energy's Office of Energy Outreach's website at http://www.doe-oeo.org/ *************************************************** GLOBAL WARMING TALKS TO BE HELD BY NATIONS' MINISTERS, NOVEMBER 2 TO 4, 1999, IN BONN Ministerial talks on climate change are set for 2-4 November 1999 in Bonn, Germany at COP 5 (fifth meeting of the Convention of the Parties). The ministers of environment and the ministers of energy will attempt to come to some agreements that are currently being hammered out by senior ministry officials from both the developed and developing countries. They just finished meeting for two weeks ending June 11 and will go back to work in Bonn from October 25 to November 2, when at that time, the ministers will arrive and finalize the deals to meet the greenhouse gas reduction commitments made at Kyoto. The last meeting was attended by some 1,500 participants from 147 governments and 152 intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations. The main outstanding issues must be finalized at the COP's Sixth Session, which will take place in late 2000 or early 2001. An offer by the Government of the Netherlands to host COP-6 in The Hague was welcomed by the participants. Many governments are awaiting the outcome of this vital conference before ratifying the Protocol and thus finalizing their acceptance of it. Over the past two weeks, government officials have paid a great deal of attention to the challenge of how the Protocol's three "mechanisms" for emissions trading, clean development, and joint implementation should function. A closely linked issue is the development of credible compliance procedures. Delegates have agreed on some of the guiding principles for a compliance system and have produced a questionnaire for obtaining the written views of governments in time for COP-5. For more information contact Michael Williams at ph. +41-22. 917 8242/44, fax (+41-22. 797 3464, e-mail mwilliams@unep.ch. Official documents are available on the Internet at the website http://www.unfccc.de ******************************************************************** PROPOSED PRINCIPLES FOR AIR EMISSIONS REDUCTION The Leonardo Academy has sent letters to the environmental agencies and energy offices in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, asking them to incorporate the Cleaner and Greener Principles into all future pollution reduction programs, including U.S. EPA-required plans to reduce nitrogen oxides (NOx, a pollutant that causes ground level ozone), fine particulate matter (PM2.5), and haze. The objective is to achieve full recognition of the environmental benefits of increased energy efficiency, renewable energy, combined heat and power, and sequestration in all air pollution reduction programsincluding currently committed emission reduction requirements, and all other future reduction programs. It recommends that all emission reduction plans, programs, and regulations should, o use a cap-and-trade approach to reduce emissions so that emission reductions receive their true market value. o reward all building owners and others for emission reductions delivered by their energy efficiency, renewable energy, combined heat and power, and sequestration (for pollutants where sequestration is possible) projects. Reward these actions with emission allowances from under the emissions cap. o allocate enough emission allowances to reward all emission reductions from these actions. 4. Use a multiple pollutant emission reduction reporting system to provide "one-stop" reporting of reductions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, mercury, greenhouse gases, and other pollutants. This makes it easy for owners and implementers of energy efficiency, renewable energy, combined heat and power, and sequestration projects to get credit for all emission reduction benefits they deliver. o give credit for early emission reduction actions from projects implemented 1990 or later. For more information on the Cleaner and Greener Principles for Pollution Reduction Programs, contact, Leonardo Academy Inc., 1526 Chandler Street, Madison, Wisconsin 53711, Ph. 608.280. 0256, Fax: 608.255.7202, email info@cleanerandgreener.org, visit website http//www.cleanerandgreener.org/CGPrinciples/ ******************************************************************* CANADA'S $150 MILLION CLIMATE CHANGE FUND The Climate Change Action Fund (CCAF) was established by the Canadian government to help Canada meet the commitments it made in December 1997 at the Third Conference of the Parties (COP3), an international climate change meeting, in Kyoto, Japan. The CCAF was announced in the 1998 federal budget, where $150 million was allocated over three years to support the development of an implementation strategy to meet these commitments and to facilitate early action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Activities under the CCAF have been divided into four components. Click on each of the following for a description of each component and its business plan. The first one is "Foundation Analysis", which includes the development of Issue Tables. It involves the development of a national implementation strategy via a multi-stakeholder consultation process. The second is "Science, Impacts and Adaptation". It targets research to better understand climate processes and to assess the impact of climate change on the regions of Canada and the options for adaptation. The third is "Technology Early Action Measures." It involves cost-shared support for the development and deployment of emission-reducing technologies. The fourth is "Public Outreach", which involves using public education and outreach activities directed at informing Canadians about climate change and encouraging them to take action. The operation of the CCAF is based on a number of principles, including building where possible on existing initiatives and mechanisms; early spending on immediate priorities while not prejudging the outcome of the national implementation process; leveraging and cost-sharing with the provinces and the private sector; concrete milestones and demonstrable results; and the development of a transparent process that engages all relevant federal departments and agencies and external stakeholders. Contact, David Oulton, Head, Climate Change Secretariat 55 Murray Street, Suite 600, Ottawa, Ontario K1N 5M3, ph. 613-943-2671, fax 613-943-2694 e-mail ccaf@climatechange.gc.ca Visit their website at http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/ ******************************************************************** CANADA'S BCNI WARNS ABOUT ATTEMPTS TO MEET KYOTO REDUCTION TARGETS As Canada's own voluntary measures flounder and its efforts to undertake serious greenhouse gas reductions lag, the Business Council on National Issues (BCNI) questions, "whether or not the arbitrary target of Kyoto makes sense...". BCNI states, "...that it does not believe such a commitment is realistic for Canada". And questions, "whether Kyoto can be reconciled with the other goals we have as a country". What is interesting is that the economic impact analysis by BCNI takes the traditional position of measure impacts on the energy and resource industries, those industries which are major energy consumers. BNCI's economic analysis did not take fully into account the economic benefits of energy efficiency and technology innovation leading to competitive advantage. BCNI's position and the full opinion can be found in the Business Council on National Issues, newsletter called, "Opinions", 1999, Number One, entitled, "Meeting the Climate Change Challenge", 90 Sparks Street Suite 806, Ottawa, Ontario K1P 5B4, Ph. (613) 238-3727, fax (613) 236-8679. Contact John Dillon at email jdillon@bcni.com, ********************************************************************* STUDY ON GLOBAL AVAILABILITY OF GHG TECHNOLOGIES Canada's Climate Change Secretariat, under the direction of David Oulton, is conducting a study entitled, "An Assessment of the Global Availability of Greenhouse Gas Mitigation Technology", for its Issues Table #1 on Technology. The study will help the issue table develop a workplan for Canada which is assessing the global availability of such technologies and assessing the need for these technologies in Canada for companies working in both the domestic and international markets, and assessing measures that have already been used either in Canada or aborad to advance technology innovation. Based on the Climate Change Secretariats findings from the Technology Table, an options paper will be prepared for the federal government to consider in meeting its Kyoto Protocol commitment. For more information visit the Climate Change Secretariat's website at http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/ ********************************************************************* INSURANCE AND FINANCE COMPANIES TAKE NEXT STEP ON ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE Over 120 financial services executives (insurers, investment companies, banks, brokers and pension funds) from Africa, Asia, North America and Europe are met in Oslo, Norway, with the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), June 10 and 11, 1999, to discuss the insurance and investments industries and the global environment. Entitled "Natural Capital at Risk", this year's annual meeting of the United Nations Environment Programme's Insurance Industry Initiative will explore the linkages between critical environmental issues and global economies affected by environmental issues like global warming. Klaus Toepfer, UNEP's Executive Director said that, "it is time for aware and active insurers and banks, acting as responsible global citizens, to move from assessing the environmental challenge to implementing solutions." The UNEP Insurance Industry Initiative has launched a study on the possible implications for insurers of the Kyoto Protocol to the UN Climate Change Convention in the second half of 1998 and the findings will be officially presented today. It suggests that the implementation of the Kyoto Protocol offers business opportunities for the insurance sector once the modalities have been adopted. "The climate debate remains one of the most important issues for the insurance sector", says Age Korsvold, President and CEO of Storebrand Insurance, host of the meeting. The insurance industry reports that environmental disasters around the world annually caused the death of 50,000 people and cost an estimated US $90 billion to the nations' economies." Dr. Juergen Zech, Chairman of the Gerling Group, stated that, "insurance managers should feel encouraged to take a leading role in the post-Kyoto dialogue. Economic and financial expertise is required in the political discussion and insurers and banks would contribute from an almost neutral position as their business is fairly clean." ************************************************************* US $100 MILLION ENVIRONMENTAL INVESTMENT BY FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS Dr. Juergen Zech, Chairman of the Gerling Group announced that eight major financial institutions had agreed to launch a joint US $100 million investment initiative called, "Sustainability Investment Partners" (SIP). "Gerling believes that there are important opportunities in the sector, especially when we can combine the expertises of such a broad group of leading companies. We have decided to invest in the new Sustainability Fund because we believe that sustainable companies are generally better managed", he said. The Oslo conference is expected to mark a watershed in the evolution of the insurance industry's stance on the environment. Insurance executives who have worked in cooperation with UNEP since 1995 are now advancing to a higher level of partnership. For more information contact, Aiko Bode, Co-ordinator UNEP Insurance Industry Initiative, Tel.+41.22.917-8197; email aiko.bode@unep.ch or Robert Bisset, UNEP Information Officer, Nairobi, email robert.bisset@unep.org ******************************************************************* NEW YORK REQUESTS GREEN TECHNOLOGY PROPOSALS The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA) is now accepting proposals for residential, commercial, and institutional building projects that develop, evaluate, demonstrate, or introduce green technologies in New York State. NYSERDA has US $500,000 available to support three types of projects; first, projects that develop and demonstrate innovative tools, protocols, and practices for designing or evaluating green buildings; second, projects that develop or demonstrate innovative green building products; or third, projects involving detailed engineering feasibility studies of commercially available energy efficient technologies to make new or existing buildings greener. NYSERDA will fund up to 50 percent of a project's total cost, but all proposed projects must yield energy, environmental, and economic benefits in New York State. NYSERDA is accepting short proposals through July 12 and, after review, will request full proposals due in September. For specifics, email Bob Carver rmc@nyserda.org Other NYSERDA opportunities can be found at the website http://www.nyserda.org/rddopps.html Source, GreenClips, ************************************************************* NUCLEAR ENERGY INSTITUTE ACCUSED OF "GREENWASH" WASHINGTON, D.C. December 10 -/E-Wire/-- The Better Business Bureau of America ruled that a Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI) advertising campaign, which touted nuclear energy as "environmentally clean," was inaccurate. The BBB recommended that the nuclear industry trade group refrain from making such claims. The NEI's advertisements, which have been published in the New York Times, the Washington Post and other major newspapers and magazines, make the claim that "Nuclear energy generates electricity without polluting the air and water" and that it is "environmentally clean." The BBB, however, concluded that nuclear plants do cause thermal water pollution and that the processes needed to produce the uranium-enriched fuel for nuclear plants cause air pollution. The Better Business Bureau recommended that water and air pollution claims be carefully qualified to avoid any potential for consumer confusion and that broad, unqualified claims that nuclear energy is `Environmentally Clean' or produces electricity `without polluting the environment' be discontinued." Moreover, the BBB said that the "environmentally clean" claim is "premature at best," because as yet there is no permanent disposal system for highly radioactive waste created by nuclear plants. "Given the potential health and safety problems associated with exposure to radioactive materials, until the questions regarding a permanent repository for radioactive waste are resolved, NAD recommends that the advertiser refrain from using overly broad claims that nuclear energy is `Environmentally Clean' or produces electricity `without polluting the environment.' " For more information contact Auke Piersma, ph. 202-546-4996, Ext. 318 or Booth Gunter, ph. 202-588-7741 Go to the website for the full story at http://ens.lycos.com/e-wire/December/dec109803.html ************************************************************** GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTIONS IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES It is clear that the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change and the Kyoto Protocol affirm that "differentiated" responsibilities should be borne by industrialized and developing countries. Yet it is equally clear that fulfilling the objective of these agreements -- preventing dangerous climate change will necessarily require developing countries and those from the Eastern block to participate in the solution. The resulting stalemate between nations over the timing and nature of developing country and Eastern country participation has led to an increasingly acrimonious negotiating atmosphere. The stalemate stems, at least in part, from a default assumption evident in the current political debate that a developing country commitment would take the same basic form as an industrialized country commitment -- a limitation on the absolute level of GHG emissions. Of course, one key difference is assumed -- a developing country commitment would likely be expressed as a "growth cap" set at some level above the country*s current emissions level to allow for economic development. In this workshop, The World Resources Institute (WRI) has presented an alternative to "growth caps" in the form of a greenhouse gas intensity indicator, which expresses a country's emissions per unit of economic output. For more information about WRI's ongoing climate change activities, visit http//www.wri.org/wri/. The full article, "What Might a Developing Country Climate Commitment Look Like?" at http//www.wri.org/wri/climate/commit.html ************************************************************ EUROPEAN AUTO INDUSTRY VOLUNTEERS 25% CUT IN GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS The European Commission endorsed an offer by the European auto industry to voluntarily cut carbon dioxide (CO2) pollution from its cars by about 25% by improving fuel consumption. The voluntary deal was reached after European Union governments threatened to impose legally-binding pollution limits on vehicle manufacturers. The members of the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (ACEA) voluntarily agreed to cutting the amount of CO2 in exhaust fumes to an average 140 grams per km by 2008. The Commission said the current average in the 15-nation EU was 186g CO2/km in 1995. The voluntary agreement will oblige car makers to reduce the average fuel consumption of their fleet to six litres per 100 kilometres for petrol engines and 5.3 litres per 100 km for diesel vehicles. ACEA said it believed it could bring CO2 emissions down to 165- 170g/km by 2003, when it would see if it could meet the tougher target sought by the EU of 120g CO2/km by 2012. ****************************************************************** EU CONFERENCE ON PROMOTING RENEWABLE ENERGY,TO REDUCE GHG A Kick-off Conference for the European Union Renewable Energy Strategy, entitled, "Implementing Renewable Energy in the 21st Century", was held May 1999. The objective is to double the use of renewable energy in the European Union from the current 6% of energy use to 12% by the year 2010. This objective was set out in in the European Commission White Paper for a Community Strategy and Action Plan. The European Commission will establish the framework, provide some financial and technical assistance, and co- ordinate actions. Both public and private sector contributions will be enlisted to meet the objectives which tie in with the efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions per the Kyoto reduction targets. Included in the GHG reduction goals are to provide, o One million Photovoltaic systems o 15 million metres squared of solar collectors o 10,000 MW of wind turbine generators o 10,000 MW of CHP biomass installations o One million dwellings heated by biomass o 1,000 MW of biogas installations o 5 million tonnes of liquid biofuels For more information you can contact Maringels Prez-Latorre Head of section, New and Renewable Energy Sources, European Commission DGXVII email sustain@emml.co.uk Go to website http://www.emml.com ******************************************** *************************************************************** $180.90 ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION TO THE GALLON ENVIRONMENT LETTER Subscribe to "The Gallon Environment Letter". The 8 to 10 page newsletter is loaded with up to date business and policy information that your company, government agency, or organization can use immediately. It is provided twice a month. It is also accompanied by the "Green Jobs Available Report" that is sent to you once a month. Subscribe now. Send a cheque for $180.90 a year ($169.00+ $11.90 GST) and help finance the research that delivers inside information and breaking news on environment business in Canada and the world. Make your cheque out to, "Gallon Letter", 506 Victoria Ave., Montreal, Quebec, H3Y 2R5. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Copyright (c) 1999 Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment, Montreal All rights reserved. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx --- You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: london@metalab.unc.edu To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75156P@franklin.oit.unc.edu From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 10:35:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20675 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA21853 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:52:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.netural.com (IDENT:qmailr@mournblade.NETural.com [206.54.248.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21830 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 8623 invoked from network); 6 Jul 1999 13:51:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.bpichicago.org) (207.112.147.81) by mournblade.netural.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 1999 13:51:53 -0000 Received: by mail.bpichicago.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:08:23 -0500 Received: by mail.bpichicago.org from [192.168.0.55] (192.168.0.55::mail daemon,SLMail V2.7); Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:08:22 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990706084527.006b0734@[192.168.0.5]> X-Sender: ksmith@[192.168.0.5] X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 08:45:27 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Katherine Smith" Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1128 In-Reply-To: <199907032210.SAA02191@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1547 The people to get in touch with regarding the hooped structures for raising hogs are at the Leopold Center in Ames, Iowa. They have had some different conferences about the method, and have sponsored research. I believe they have a website, which would be a good place to start. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 10:36:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20708 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA22469 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:52:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA22378 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA27169; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:51:59 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma026768; Tue, 6 Jul 99 08:51:36 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:51:36 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDEB@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'waldenfarm@sprintmail.com'" , "'Roberto Verzola'" Subject: Social and political aspects (was: Questions on organic livestock ...) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 08:51:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1548 Alex, > Shame on you for saying, "your vision of "organic" agriculture > is social and political, not biological." My point is that one of the big drivers behind "alternative", "organic", and "sustainable" (depending on the definition of sustainable) agriculture is social and political. For example Roberto wrote: > Perhaps Greg's point is better expressed as follows: > organic production can only be done by real persons > (who are biological entities) and not by legal constructs > like corporations (which are as artificial as synthetic > chemicals and pesticides). I can assure you and Roberto that "real people" do the work in companies like Monsanto, Pioneer, Novartis, Bayer, etc., not that these companies have any interest in producing "organic" crops. Of course, some "companies" do have an interest. These are "industrial", "chemical" farmers (falsely characterized IMO) whose companies are mainly successful family farms. This tendency to dehumanize your opponents is disturbing (but very understandable in a political sense). So, if someone like that is successful producing 100 acres of certified organic onions at a shot and packing them with efficient infrastructure, is that a problem? To a lot of people this IS a problem because of social and political issues. These issues are real, and should be discussed as political and social issues. Alex wrote: > Please to note that we are the ones who have preserved the > real form of traditional agriculture through the past 60 years > or so. That sounds like a social issue to me. > all the money -hungry yobs want to get a piece of the action So it is at root an us-them kind of thing? What if those "yobs" are just "real people" trying to make a living? What you are saying is SATURATED with politics. > And I'll take that $4/hour. It'll be twice what I make now working 80 > hours/week, 9 months/year. Suppose I do genuine organic agriculture better than you, hire 20 people and drive you out of business. Does that make me evil? It does bring up ethical issues of capitalism. But those need to be stated clearly, not conflated and continually sold as a biological problems. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 11:24:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21455 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22890 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:41:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22858 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.140] (br-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.140]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA15715; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907061441.HAA15715@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 07:39:42 -0700 Subject: FW: New Test Could Help Breed Edema-Resistant Pigs From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1549 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Test Could Help Breed Edema-Resistant Pigs Date: Tue, Jul 6, 1999, 6:33 AM NEWS RELEASE: New Test Could Help Breed Edema-Resistant Pigs ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov July 6, 1999 ----------- Hog farmers may be able to rear pigs with a natural ability to resist edema disease caused by an intestinal E. coli bacteria. That's welcome news for producers who lose money when young pigs get sick from a type of E. coli called F18. U.S. Department of Agriculture researchers in Ames, Iowa, and the Pig Improvement Company (PIC) of Franklin, Kentucky, cooperatively developed a DNA-based test to identify pigs genetically resistant to the F18 E. coli strain that causes edema. Rapid growth of F18 E. coli in the 3- to 14- week-old pig's small intestine after weaning leads to edema disease, characterized by a excessive build-up of body fluids. The F18 strain doesn't cause disease in humans. "This is a natural way of breeding healthier, more disease resistant pigs. For producers, this strategy is a better alternative than increasing use of antibiotics in animals. The cost of vaccines and antibiotics cuts into producers profits," said Agricultural Research Service Administrator Floyd Horn. ARS is USDA's chief scientific research agency. ARS microbiologist Julia F. Ridpath at the National Animal Disease Center in Ames, Iowa, and Brad Bosworth, who was an ARS veterinarian and is now a group veterinary scientist with PIC, discovered resistance and susceptibility to F18 is linked to a specific gene. A Swiss scientist, Peter Voegeli, concurrently made the same discovery. Ridpath and Bosworth have validated their test on more than 500 pigs. "Pigs that are resistant to edema disease lack intestinal receptors. The lack of receptors makes it impossible for this bacteria to stick or attach to the intestinal wall," said Bosworth. The scientists also identified another way to reduce the problems caused by the F18 E. coli bacteria: feed weaned pigs more animal protein in place of soybean meal. This tactic prevents the bacteria from taking hold in the susceptible pig. The death rate among pigs with full-blown edema disease is about 25 percent. ARS and the Biotechnology Research and Development Consortium (BRDC) in Peoria, Illinois, hold a patent on the test. PIC has a worldwide exclusive license for the commercial use of the technology except in Switzerland. A story about the research appears in the July issue of ARS' Agricultural Research magazine and on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jul99/pigs0799.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Julia Ridpath, ARS Enteric Diseases and Food Research, National Animal Disease Center, P.O. Box 70, Ames, Iowa 50010; phone (515) 663-7372, fax (515) 663-7458, jridpath@nadc.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 11:24:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21467 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA24635 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:46:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24509 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp124.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.124]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C88AD6174C; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008e01bec7be$38233e20$899144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , "Organic Materials Review Institute" References: <4.1.19990705175559.009a4100@mail.pond.net> Subject: Re: Technical Advisory Panel Review of Organic Materials Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:45:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1550 check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Organic Materials Review Institute To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 1999 6:00 PM Subject: Technical Advisory Panel Review of Organic Materials > TAP Review > The National Organic Standards Board (NOSB) of the US Department of Agriculture > referred the following materials to the Technical Advisory Panel (TAP) for > review the following substances to include on the National List of materials > allowed for use in organic production, processing, and handling: > > Crops > Amino Acids > Ethylene used with activated charcoal for fruit induction in pineapple > production > Potassium bicarbonate for disease control > > Livestock > Amino Acids as feed additives > Chlorohexidine as a teat dip > Enzymes as feed additives > Glycerin as a topical antiseptic > Lanolin cream as a topical antiseptic > Parasiticides, including Fenbendazole, Ivermectin, and Levamisole > Phosphoric Acid as a sanitizer > > Processing and Handling > Amino Acids > Enzymes, plant and yeast > Ethylene gas for use on tropical dried fruit > Magnesium Chloride (clarify 'refined' and 'unrefined') > Waxes, including shellac, beeswax, and ammonium soaps > > OMRI has been contracted by the USDA to review the materials listed above. OMRI > staff is managing the TAP process, and asks for scientific and technical > supporting documentation scientific studies that help determine whether or not > a given product is synthetic, and address the OFPA criteria. > > For plant crop and livestock production, the NOSB will consider the following > criteria: > (1) the potential of such substances for detrimental chemical interactions > with other materials used in organic farming systems; > (2) the toxicity and mode of action of the substance and of its breakdown > products or any contaminants, and their persistence and areas of concentration > in the environment; > (3) the probability of environmental contamination during manufacture, use, > misuse or disposal of such substance; > (4) the effect of the substance on human health; > (5) the effects of the substance on biological and chemical interactions in > the agroecosystem, including the physiological effects of the substance on soil > organisms (including the salt index and solubility of the soil), crops and > livestock; > (6) the alternatives to using the substance in terms of practices or other > available materials; and > (7) its compatibility with a system of sustainable agriculture. > > > > For materials used in post-harvest handling and processing, the NOSB will > consider synthetic processing aids and adjuvants against the following > criteria: > (1) An equivalent substance cannot be produced from a natural source > and has > no substitutes that are organic ingredients. > > (2) Its manufacture, use and disposal does not contaminate the environment. > > (3) If the nutritional quality of the food is maintained and the material > itself or its breakdown products do not have any adverse effect on human > health. > > (4) Is not a preservative or used only to recreate/improve flavors, colors, > textures, or nutritive value lost during processing except in the latter case > as required by law. > > (5) Is Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) by FDA when used in accordance > with Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP), and contains no residues of heavy > metals or other contaminants in excess of the tolerances established by FDA. > > (6) Is compatible with the principles of organic handling. > > (7) There is no other way to produce a similar product without its use and > it is used in the minimum quantity required to achieve the process. > > > > Please email any technical references or appropriate studies on the above > materials to info@omri.org or mail information to OMRI at P.O. Box 11558, > Eugene, OR 97440-3758 by August 3. Please do not call. OMRI is not seeking > opinions, anecdotes, testimonials, or economic data, and this is not a public > comment period for these materials. OMRI is seeking scientific studies and > technical information that will help the NOSB make recommendations based on > consideration of the above criteria. Members of the public may want to engage > in a dialog about the above materials through various channels. > > Selected data will be provided to reviewers who will provide their comments and > suggestions. OMRI staff will add their feedback, then send the TAP reviews to > the USDA in time to be included in the NOSB's Fall meeting agenda, tentatively > scheduled for October 25-27. > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 11:43:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21876 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA27427 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:52:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27415 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp124.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.124]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C848B61746; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009901bec7bf$15a57b00$899144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , "Organic Materials Review Institute" References: <4.1.19990705175559.009a4100@mail.pond.net> Subject: Re: Technical Advisory Panel Review of Organic Materials Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 07:51:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1551 synthetic processing aids and adjuvants and all this other synthetic stuff is not organic I don't care what the bureaucrats say . if you use synthetic aids ur not organic. they are taking away the word organic from the people and turning it into a joke. stop force state and fed. certification and all the bullshit that goes with it. give the word organic back to the people. how many bureaucratic pencil pusher do we have to kiss up to and bow down too and pay off just to grow and sell organic. check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Organic Materials Review Institute To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 1999 6:00 PM Subject: Technical Advisory Panel Review of Organic Materials > TAP Review > The National Organic Standards Board (NOSB) of the US Department of Agriculture > referred the following materials to the Technical Advisory Panel (TAP) for > review the following substances to include on the National List of materials > allowed for use in organic production, processing, and handling: > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 12:35:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23187 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA01304 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:46:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01269 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14557; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:46:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Beth von Gunten" , Subject: case studies of marketing and labels Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:38:57 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA01275 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1552 See "Marketing Sustainable Agricuture: Case Studies and Analysis from Europe". It's a summary of what was learned during a European tour (six countries) and symposium that took place Nov '98 involving 80 people from the US, Canada, the UK, France, Italy, Germany, the Czech Republic and Poland. Besides just being downright fun to read, it highlights some of the most interesting and successful marketing initiatives in Europe (with pictures and contact information); it analyzes what makes these initiatives successful; and it represents the combined work of different folks here in the US, some of whom helped write the case studies. AND it's $15.00 - a bargain at twice the price!! To place an order, contact: Ven M. Tran Environment and Agriculture Program Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy (IATP) 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55404 USA Ph: 1-612-870-3411 Fax: 1-612-870-4846 e-mail: vtran@iatp.org Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 12:58:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23531 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA17467 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:12:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA17379 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA15198; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:11:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Wilson, Dale" , Subject: RE: Social and political aspects (was: Questions on organic livestock...) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:04:25 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDEB@vela.phibred.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA17403 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1553 Dale, Sustainable agriculture, as defined by Congress and many others, has a social leg to balance environmental and economic legs. You're correct that organic markets are open to big players. The assumption of many sus ag proponents, however, is that a sustainable system is one that is relatively equitable, in which disproportionate marketing power doesn't subvert opportunity. A more egalitarian market doesn't necessarily mean inefficiency, IMO, but it would of course require significant political change. Many Europeans are heading in this direction. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org Alex, > Shame on you for saying, "your vision of "organic" agriculture > is social and political, not biological." My point is that one of the big drivers behind "alternative", "organic", and "sustainable" (depending on the definition of sustainable) agriculture is social and political. For example Roberto wrote: > Perhaps Greg's point is better expressed as follows: > organic production can only be done by real persons > (who are biological entities) and not by legal constructs > like corporations (which are as artificial as synthetic > chemicals and pesticides). I can assure you and Roberto that "real people" do the work in companies like Monsanto, Pioneer, Novartis, Bayer, etc., not that these companies have any interest in producing "organic" crops. Of course, some "companies" do have an interest. These are "industrial", "chemical" farmers (falsely characterized IMO) whose companies are mainly successful family farms. This tendency to dehumanize your opponents is disturbing (but very understandable in a political sense). So, if someone like that is successful producing 100 acres of certified organic onions at a shot and packing them with efficient infrastructure, is that a problem? To a lot of people this IS a problem because of social and political issues. These issues are real, and should be discussed as political and social issues. Alex wrote: > Please to note that we are the ones who have preserved the > real form of traditional agriculture through the past 60 years > or so. That sounds like a social issue to me. > all the money -hungry yobs want to get a piece of the action So it is at root an us-them kind of thing? What if those "yobs" are just "real people" trying to make a living? What you are saying is SATURATED with politics. > And I'll take that $4/hour. It'll be twice what I make now working 80 > hours/week, 9 months/year. Suppose I do genuine organic agriculture better than you, hire 20 people and drive you out of business. Does that make me evil? It does bring up ethical issues of capitalism. But those need to be stated clearly, not conflated and continually sold as a biological problems. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 13:24:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24263 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA22898 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:23:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22866 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [129.2.68.82] (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA20469 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:23:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: vberton@pop.wam.umd.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: vberton@wam.umd.edu (Valerie Berton) Subject: SARE pest management projects/Ten Years of SARE Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1554 This month, SARE features pest management projects as part of its chapter-by-chapter posting of Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress. It is available on the Web at http://www.sare.org/san/10yrsofsan/ OR go to our home page , click on Publications, and scroll down to SARE: Ten Years and Counting... Ten Years of SARE showcases accomplishments of a unique USDA program that has made a difference in the lives of farmers and ranchers across the United States and Island Protectorates. SARE staff chose one project from each of its four regions for the following 10 categories: Crop Production, Animal Production, Natural Resource Protection, Marketing, Community Development, Education, Pest Management, Horticulture, Professional Development, and Integrated Farm/Ranch Systems. For a free print version of the 96-page book, contact Abiola Adeyemi (aadeyemi@nal.usda.gov) or use the contact information below. Be sure to send your mailing address. Special thanks to Thor Lindstrom and Utah State University for their cooperative work with SAN on this web-based project! ----------------------------------- Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist 2121 Ag/Life Sciences Surge Bldg. University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742-3358 (301) 405-3186 (301) 314-7373 (fax) vberton@wam.umd.edu http://www.sare.org ----------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 16:12:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04971 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA24614 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:17:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA24591 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP279.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.81]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12984 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37825707.41BF379C@sprintmail.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:20:39 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Social and Political Aspects Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1555 Dale, I may have read into your quote of Greg, since you made no comment and the rest was negative. I stand corrected and glad that we both agree that the social and political aspects of sust. ag. are as important as the environmental and economic. I did not, however, dehumanize anyone. You mentioned that "real" people (your phraseology) work at Monsanto, Novartis... If anyone has dehumanized them, it's the corporate entity. They must become schizoid to work all day for a company that kills and destroys, has no ethics- is driven by profit motive only and then be able to go home and try to feel good about themselves. Or they decide that what is done in the business world is different from what they do in their private lives- i.e., "Bhopal is OK- those people should know better or should work and live somewhere else if they don't like the risk- as long as I go to church and contribute to Greenpeace." And, IMO, it's just as schizophrenic to say that the social and political aspects of sust. ag. should be discussed as a separate issue, away from the biologic. It is this kind of disassociated thinking that has gotten us in the crisis we're in- social, political, economic, ethical and spiritual. These must all be considered as a whole, for they are inseparable and affect each other. About "yobs"- perhaps you're not a Clash fan and missed the reference. It's not us and them- you're reading too much into my words. You may need to search yourself to see if you have a prejudice somewhere that leads you to this when you read words that disagree with your position. I know I struggle each day to convert my prejudices. And your example of someone "producing 100 acres of certified organic onions at a shot and packing them with efficient infrastructure" is the root of the problem- monocrops, packing for the existing infrastructure of consolidated food industry, not diversity grown in a responsible way for people who use the food to nourish their bodies. And then you said: "Suppose I do genuine organic agriculture better than you, hire 20 people and drive you out of business. Does that make me evil? It does bring up ethical issues of capitalism. But those need to be stated clearly, not conflated and continually sold as a biological problems." I wouldn't dream of "trying to run" someone out of business. That's an act of violence. Farmers are better off cooperating and realizing there's plenty of market to go around. You'll have to find someone else to fight with- I'm not interested. I am interested in what benefits my community as a whole. That's why I teach others how I grow and market. I would rather live in a community where there are so many organic farmers that I would have to quit farming, find a job so I could buy all this fresh, nutritious food . It's about enriching the community rather than hoarding information and money. And you'll have to look to your own soul for the answer about what is evil. I hope that you will some day realize that we can no longer disassociate if we wish to survive and prosper- real prosperity, not money and possessions. And please do not cry, "Foul" every time someone talks of all aspects of an issue. We need to be doing more of this. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 16:45:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA05785 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA22354 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:09:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22332 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:09:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13691 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:08:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0FEG00M0SQI3SP@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 15:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0FEG00IBPQHID9@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 852567A6.0068EABF ; Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:05:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:00:37 -0400 Subject: Workshop on Climate Change and Variability To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <852567A6.00688389.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA22335 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1556 The American Agricultural Economics Association offers several pre- and post-conference workshops at the annual meeting that will be held in Nashville, TN on August 9 - 11, 1999. You may be interested in the total program ?Farm to Table: Connecting Products, Communities, and Consumers?. See the website www.aaea.org for program details and registration form. Faculty members will find the climate change workshop of special interest. You do not have to register for the annual meeting in order to attend the workshop. Tutorial on Climate Change and Variability Saturday, August 8, 1999 8a.m. - 5p.m. Reception 5:30 - p.m. Renaissance Nashville Hotel (Headquarters Hotel) 611 Commerce Street Nashville, TN 37203-3725 This workshop is a one-day intensive tutorial/workshop on climate change and variability, the controversy surrounding it, its potential impacts and the roles it creates for applied economists. The objective of the workshop is to link agricultural economics professionals with the agribusiness, conservation, climate science, agricultural science, risk analysis and policy communities on the issues of weather and climate risk raised by the global climate change debate. Speakers for the AAEA Pre-Conference Workshop - Tutorial on Climate Change and Variability 8:00-10:00 Panel: Science: Facts and Forecasts: Tom Karl (NOAA): Historical Climate: The evidence for change; Tom Wigley (NCAR); (Stephen Schneider 2nd) : What do We Know about Greenhouse-Gas Induced Climate Change?; Peter Gleick (Pacific Institute): Water Resources In a Changing Climate; Susan Riha (Cornell University): Plant Response to Climate And Elevated Carbon Dioxide. 10:00-10:20 Break 10:20-11:15 Panel: Science: Facts and Forecasts (cont.--questions/discussion) 11:15-12:00 Economic Impacts of Climate Change on Agriculture: Facts and Fancies (Rich Adams? Dave Schimmelpfennig or Jan Lewandrowski, ERS)) 12:00-1:30 Lunch and Exhibits/Demonstrations/Posters: Global Change Data Centers and Agencies and Organizations Seeking to Support Research on Agriculture and Global Change will provide posters, information, and demonstrations on their programs. These will be available throughout the day. 1:30-3:15 Panel: Variabilitity Agriculture, and the Economic Response to Risk: David Legler (Florida State): Linda Mearns (NCAR); Are ENSO Events Becoming More Frequent; Bruce McCarl (Texas A&M)/Otto Doering/Bill Easterling: Economic Impacts of ENSO and the Value of Improved Forecasts; 1st Jerry Skees (2nd Tom Zachariah): Weather Risks and Financial Risks 3:15-3:30 Break 3:30-5:00 Panel: Resources, Agriculture, and the Environment In a Changing Climate; Dennis King (U. of Md.) Agriculture and the Cheasapeake Bay Ecosystem; Jim Shortle (Penn. State); Water Quality Economics: Designing Policies for Extreme Events; Rattan Lal (Ohio State); Multiple Benefits of Enhancing Soil Carbon; Bruce Babcock (Iowa State); The Economics of Changing Farm Practices to Enhance Soil Carbon. (Dave Sunding, UC Berkely; Emery Roe possible western water people) 5:00-5:30 Afternoon Panelists Together for Summary Q&A 6:30-8:00 Reception Registration $50 Professionals $25 Students ASFMRA registrants will receive 7.5 hours for this workshop. Need more information? Contact John Reilly; Phone: 617-253-8040; Fax: 617-253-9845,; Email: jreilly@mit.edu; or Otto Doering; Phone: 765-494-4226; Fax: 765-494-1224; Email: doering@agecon.purdue.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 19:12:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA08555 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA17132 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:23:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlserve.unl.edu (root@unlserve.unl.edu [129.93.1.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA17124 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pmurray.unl.edu (ag-pmurray.unl.edu [129.93.224.80]) by unlserve.unl.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA45622; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:22:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 17:22:03 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990706172424.3887a664@unlserve.unl.edu> X-Sender: pmurray@unlserve.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Pam Murray Subject: CSAS Announces Volume 11 Cc: richard_olson@berea.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1557 The Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln has just published Volume 11 in its series of Extension and Education Materials for Sustainable Agriculture. The title of the report is "Urbanization of Rural Landscapes: Syllabus and Teaching Materials from a University Course." The 335-page volume, edited by Richard Olson, describes a multi-disciplinary course, Urbanization of Rural Landscapes, developed and taught at UNL in spring 1999. The course was designed so that a student who successfully completes it will be able to: - Describe the major factors influencing land use decisions in the United States; - Describe the patterns and consequences of land conversion in the United States; - Identify alternatives to sprawl and other typical development patterns; - Access internet and other sources of information on land use policy and farmland preservation; - Demonstrate a familiarity with land use planning tools, policies, and procedures; - Describe trends in urbanization and land use in the Lincoln/Omaha area; - Participate in and contribute to community debates on land use issues. Volume 11 contains the course syllabus and many of the associated teaching materials including exercises, exams, selected readings, and references. The volume is organized chronologically with the materials grouped by week. Each section begins with a brief overview of themes and objectives for the week, and a description of the materials presented in the section. Some of the exercises included in the volume are: - A gallery walk exploring the factors at different scales that influence land use decisions; - An evaluation of student aesthetic responses to different rural and urban scenes; - The use of the PA BLUPRINTS software package to illustrate the relationship between land use regulations and the appearance of the landscape; - A jig-saw exercise for teaching about common land use paradigms; - A knowledge of place quiz to increase student awareness of ecological processes in their community; - A capstone visioning and planning exercise in which students apply knowledge learned throughout the course to a local landscape design problem. Volume 11 will provide some useful ideas to instructors who want to design a course on this topic or modify an existing course. Also, the reference materials in the volume may be of value to people interested in farmland and open-space preservation and land use issues. More detail about Volume 11 as well as information on other publications of the CSAS can be found at http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas/reports.htm To order, send a check payable to the University of Nebraska for $10.00 US (note that it is for Volume 11) to: Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, University of Nebraska, PO Box 830949, Lincoln NE 68583-0949. (Price includes s&h in US; for air book rate to Canada, add $5; air rate to other countries, check with the CSAS office -- this applies to all volumes in the series.) For questions, contact Pam Murray, 402-472-2056, pmurray1@unl.edu. If you wish to contact Richard Olson directly, his new e-mail address at Berea College is richard_olson@berea.edu. *********************** Pam Murray, Coordinator Center for Grassland Studies and Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems PO Box 830949 University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 phone: 402-472-9383 fax: 402-472-4104 e-mail: pmurray1@unl.edu http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/cgs http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 19:45:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA09138 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02743 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:02:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02728 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:02:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 811159928worldnet ([12.79.226.123]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990706230134.SCDE4954@811159928worldnet> for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:01:34 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01bec803$b8a17a40$7be24f0c@att.net> Reply-To: "Mary C Kline" From: "Mary C Kline" To: Subject: Wholesale Prices Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:03:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEC7E2.2F56B320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1558 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEC7E2.2F56B320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can someone suggest a wholesale price index for organic produce? I = don't have enough produce to make it profitable to join a full time = service, but need to perform a one time check for blueberries in the = Baltimore/Philly markets. Thank you. Mary ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEC7E2.2F56B320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Can someone suggest a wholesale price index for = organic=20 produce?  I don't have enough produce to make it profitable to join = a full=20 time service, but need to perform a one time check for blueberries in = the=20 Baltimore/Philly markets.  Thank you.
     
    Mary
    ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEC7E2.2F56B320-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 6 20:02:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA10509 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA12482 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:24:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA12315 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 19:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.131]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08748; Tue, 6 Jul 1999 18:26:16 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990706182420.0071e22c@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 18:24:20 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: GDC: Mexicans protest GMO corn from US Cc: enigh@core.fas.harvard.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA12410 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1559 >GREENPEACE MEXICO DELIVERS GMO CORN SEED TO HEALTH DEPARTMENT, DEMANDS IMPORT BAN. > >Nearly 100 kg of genetically modified corn seed, purchased near Mexico City was turned over to the Mexican health authorities as proof that genetically altered corn is imported to the country mixed with regular grain. Trasngenic grain is sent to Mexico without any labels or prior notification, the activists claimed. > >Eight members of Greenpeace, as well as the corn and a written petition requesting an import ban on transgenic foods and seeds, were received by local health officials who promised to refer the matter to the federal Minister of Health. Trasngenic corn has not been authorized by the Mexican government, neither as food nor seed. > > Officials have stated that transgenic corn seed will not be permitted in Mexico since the country is a center of corn domestication, harboring dozens of traditional varieties and wild relatives. The precaution is aimed at preventing genetic contamination of these valuable crop genetic resources. > >Greenpeace campaign coordinator Liza Covantes expressed concern about the unknown health effects of these foods. She cited the example of a GM variety of corn known as "Event 176" that utilizes genes for resistance to the antibiotic ampicillin, citing research from the Pasteur Institute in France. In studies commissioned by Greenpeace, samples of corn imported to Mexico were found to have both Event 176 and Bt transgenic varieties. > >The Mexican health authorities stated that they shared Greenpeace's concerns and assured that they are currently elaborating regulations to complement existing laws to allow greater control of transgenic foods. > >Sources: La Jornada, "Frenar importaciones de maz transgnico, pide Greenpeace" 2/07/1999. El Universal "Entregan a la SSA evidencias de maz transgnico" 2/07/1999. > > > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 08:33:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA18988 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA14604 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:47:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mx03.together.net (mx06.together.net.120.97.204.IN-ADDR.ARPA [204.97.120.66] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA14567 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoo.uvm.edu (dial-231-btvt.udial.together.net [209.91.1.171]) by mx03.together.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03011 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37834C34.3DAF63A@zoo.uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 07:46:45 -0500 From: Fred Magdoff Reply-To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: A VERY important program Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1560 Hi Sanet Folks,
       If you want to better understand why it is so hard to change things (agricultural and other) to arrangements that are better for most people, you should get a copy of "Free Speech for Sale", A Bill Moyers Special that appeared on Educational TV a few weeks ago. Even the most cynical will be somewhat surprised and learn something from this. The first segment is about a new republican state legislator from NC that made the mistake of putting her constituents' concerns about the hog factories in her district above the desires of the corporations.
        Although the program will probably be rebroadcast, it is worth getting copies of and making sure as many people as possible see it.
    It can be ordered at 1-800-336-1917  and costs
    $29.95 plus $4.95 shipping

    FRED
     
      To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 09:07:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA19785 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA06422 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:22:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA06371 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 09:18:29 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 09:15:33 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: Social and Political Aspects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1561 Alex, You seem confused about the way economics works. Dale never said that his hypothetical onion farm was "trying" to run anyone out of business, just that it naturally happens to the less efficient. Right after that you say, "I would rather live in a community where there are so many organic farmers that I would have to quit farming, find a job so I could buy all this fresh, nutritious food ." This is a quite good statement of just my point. When agriculture overproduces, only the very most efficient stay in the business (organic or otherwise). If organic producers oversupply the market, the prices fall until output can be "cleared". Unfortunately, this market price is below cost of production for the less efficient producers, so they tend to go out of business. If there are scale efficiencies, then smaller producers are the ones who leave agriculture for farms in the cities and end up buying the "cheap" food. This is reality whether we are talking about organic foods or high-chem foods. A major difference is that organic has (in my opinion) fewer hidden costs in the production process, so the nominal production costs are closer to the true COP. It is certainly hard to compete with a system that buries very real production costs in public welfare losses (eg, environmental damage). Nevertheless, in the end, the most efficient production system will prosper; the less efficient either go out of business, find a special niche or become a hobby subsidized by off-farm income. BOB ! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 09:30:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA20143 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA19661 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19622 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:45:48 -0400 (EDT) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: (from nobody@localhost) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA11927; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907071245.IAA11927@travelers.mail.cornell.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: travelers.mail.cornell.edu: nobody set sender to dsc17@cornell.edu using -f To: Bob MacGregor , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Reply-To: dsc17@cornell.edu References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.0 X-Originating-IP: 132.236.126.40 Subject: Re: Social and Political Aspects Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1562 As a budding economist and frequent critic of my discipline, I liked Bob's thoughts on efficiency and farm loss, and the ability of producers to externalize their costs..thus producing "cheaper" food.This is a huge problem. I believe that much of the problem is how we economists measure things Rarely are the true costs reflected in the price. When and if they ever are, then "efficiency" could mean producing at the lowest cost: least resource use, least pollution, unemployment, whatever. (Where marginal benefit equals marginal cost, however you wish to measur those things) An economics professor in my dept. says that economists are not good at telling you where to go, but once you decide where to go, it is good at telling you the best way to get there. If true costs are accounted for, efficiency may well be a good thing, as would be the market forces that would drive the less eficient out of business... What we need, in my view, is a better (more broad) way of measuring benefits and costs. Then markets and economics CAN be a powerful tool for decision making and maximizing the social good Maybe I'm just defending my chosen discipline, but I think economics is a useful way of lookin at things, and markets may be the best way to allocate resources Any thoughts? David To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 10:20:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA21115 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA22310 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:41:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.a001.sprintmail.com (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22248 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP061.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.45]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA14255 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 06:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37835998.21B18EDC@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 09:43:52 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Social and Political Aspects Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1563 Bob & David, Thank you for repeating the mantra of "modern" economics- the efficient will survive and thrive, the inefficient will fail. This is oft repeated to explain the demise of the family farm and that we should turn corporate america loose on food and processing because they do it so much better (are more efficient). The big problem with this is it's just not true. Corporate farms enjoy tax breaks, government subsidies for everything and pay lawyers instead of fines for their misbehavior. They can also afford lobbyists who now write laws and feed them to congressmen. It is a government subsidized industry. Family farms have been proven to be far more efficient than corporate megafarms, no matter how you look at it- units of food produced per hour input, caloric output versus caloric input, environmental impact, number of jobs produced... (See Family Farming by Marty Strange and others) So, something else must be at work to have caused the failure of so many family farms over the past 30 years. The thing that sticks out is the economists, bankers and ag. service providers all telling small farmers to "get big or get out" and "you have to expand to be efficient." So, most farmers listened (because after all, these people know what they're talking about, they're experts) and went into debt to buy and/or lease more land, irrigation equipment (remember the pivot grains in arid areas?), tractors, seed fertilizer and a devil's pantry of chemicals. And it wasn't just explanations. We were cajoled and ridiculed if we hesitated- we were told that this was "the modern way." Those who listened are now out of business. If all this we were told was true, why didn't these farmers prosper? Because it was all a big lie- started and funded by chemical companies, equipment manufacturers and bankers to sell product and make money form loans. And USDA & Extensions were their lackeys- did the pushing and ridiculing and continue to do so in my county. So what is the result of all this? Corporations are strangling out the independent farmers and are gaining a tighter hold on the food industry. It is being consolidated so that a few corporations will control food from the seed to the supermarket shelf. Because they're more efficient? No. Because they control more money and money runs this society these days- we have the best congress that money can buy, and if you need scientific study results to come out the way you want, there are scientists and statisticians out there who will see that you get what you want (for the right price, of course). And just how efficient has corporate america been at producing food? They put the product on the shelf all right, but do you really want to eat it? I've had Md.'s and pharmacologists tell me that 75% of the chronic illnesses in this country are due to malnutrition caused by the lack of nutrient content in our diet. And recent work by a medical researcher in osteoporosis finding that it's not due to a lack of calcium, but an imbalance of minerals in the diet. (His findings are that we need the same balance of minerals in our bones to maintain density as Albrecht's recommendation for soil to provide proper plant nutrition. Surprise!) I read an article in a food processors' magazine around 1980 that talked about how the growth in the food industry had leveled out because of the decrease in population expansion. The article was telling processors that they could increase sales by reducing the nutrient content of the food during processing. This would make people eat more to satisfy their hunger (nutrient needs). Amazing that they would put such a thing into print! And a recent report of a study showing 75% hyper allergenic reaction in workers who harvested genetically altered Bt cole crops, versus 15% in a group harvesting non genetically altered. I could go on, but the point is that big is not necessarily more efficient- especially in food production. Corporations that control enough money can buy markets by underpricing products to drive the small people out and change brand loyalty. This is done by Kroger, Safeway, Proctor & Gamble, General Foods, Tyson, Walmart, Barnes & Noble... They can then manipulate the price by being the only source or cartels, once you get all those pesky "independents" out of the market. Look around. The small farms who didn't take the bait to go in debt and expand are mostly still around, or closed because the farmer retired and the land was more valuable (brought more money for retirement) as development property than a farm. Given- there is an "economy of scale" but it is definitely not at mega-farm scale. So please don't give us any more of that "if you'll just be a good boy and do what we experts tell you and you'll get rich" bull puckey. And please stop the economic mantra about efficiency. Wake up and smell the coffee- You're just a lackey and will do all right because the corporations take care of their own- but can you look yourself in the mirror and say to yourself, "I have been an accomplice to ruining family farms and putting families on the street" and go on with your day happily? Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 11:15:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22244 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13109 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:20:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13054 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05694 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id HAA08834; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:58:05 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma008499; Wed, 7 Jul 99 07:57:48 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:57:48 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDF1@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Charles Benbrook'" Subject: RE: Response to Jonathan ?? Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:57:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1564 Chuck, > The recent ERS report requires a careful reading. In a nutshell, > no one (including Monsanto) ever claimed that inserting RR > resistance genes in soybeans would raise their genetic yield > potential, other things being equal. It all depends on the degree and type of weed pressure. It wouldn't surprise me if there were a small yield penalty in the absence of weed pressure. After all, seed companies were scrambling to get RR varieties on the market. Even with marker-assisted backcrossing, it is impossible to completely recover the recurrent genotype in just a few generations. So "junk" DNA from the background of the original transformed line contaminates the new variety. It doesn't necessarily mean that the RR gene itself is doing anything deleterious (although that wouldn't surprise me either). > Most farmers not using a Roundup based system are applying either > sulfonylureas or imidazolinone herbicides which are known to > cause some stunting/damage to soybeans earlier in the season Farmers are very sensitive to the esthetics of the crop. It doesn't matter how many times the salesman says "it'll grow out of it, trust me." Even if it really does, farmers don't like that yellowish burned look they get from many postemergence soybean herbicides. > First, growers switch from a acetanilide (alachlor, metolachlor) or > other "old" chemistry herbicides that are applied at .75 to 1.5 pounds > a.i. per acre to Roundup-based system involving maybe .5 to .7 pounds > a.i. per acre. > This is not a reduction in reliance, it is a switch to more > biologically-active and persistent chemistry effective at > lower use rates. Huh? Roundup is LESS persistent in the environment than these other herbicides. In a practical sense, it has almost zero persistence. It is accurate to say that RR beans reduce the use of environmentally persistent herbicides. > If the goal is/was use reduction, a RR bean system averaging in > 1998 about 1 pound a.i. per acre entails almost 10 times the > herbicide as some sulfonylurea systems, So, you are saying that you would rather use highly active and persistent sulfonylurea herbicides, which, BTW cause carryover problems, than Roundup which never has any such problem? Really? > ...So any claims that RR beans reduce herbicide use always are > incomplete without the phrase "...reduced COMPARED TO WHAT??" Again, RR beans reduce the use of persistent herbicides. > Second, growers plant RR beans and spot treat fields where weeds get out > of control, using non-chemical alternatives in other parts of field, > like cultivation. The biggest environmental benefits of the proliferation of herbicide resistant cultivars are increased flexibility in rotation of weed management strategies, and possibility of reactive versus preventative application. For example, a farmer might plant RR beans and decide later, after he sees what weed threats are out there, what weed control strategy, sulfonylurea, Roundup, or cultivation, to use. With preemergence chemicals, farmers are locked into high rates of persistent chemicals before they see any weeds in the field. > As projected by many weed scientists, the average rate of > application and average number of applications will probably > incrementally rise until weed shifts and resistance render > RR soybeans not economically attractive. I hope people are not that stupid. Long rotation of weed control modes of action is now possible in the corn-soybean system. Clever farmers will exploit this to control the distribution of weed species in their fields and reduce chances of resistance arising. > What is really needed is an "impact adjusted" measure of use and > reliance I agree. The criteria should include environmental contamination, propensity to elicit herbicide resistant weeds, and long term stability of the cropping system. I don't think raw numbers such as pounds of a.i. used are that relevant, since the various herbicides differ so much in biological activity, selectivity, time of application, and persistence in the environment. It is apparent that farmers really like RR beans, more so than the seed industry expected. I'll bet the reason is flexibility. It may be hard to capture this in data, but flexibility is probably a stabilizing factor. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 11:24:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22400 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19531 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:32:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19482 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00ED7315@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:30:07 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 7 Jul 99 10:32:16 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 7 Jul 99 10:32:09 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:32:07 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: organic standards, ethics, society, politics and biology In-reply-to: <199907062210.SAA08708@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <41B7FA24A99@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1565 Alex's retorts to Dale: > About "yobs"- perhaps you're not a Clash fan and missed the reference. > It's not us and them- you're reading too much into my words... and >...I wouldn't dream of "trying to run" someone out of business. >That's an act of violence. Farmers are better off cooperating and >realizing there's plenty of market to go around. You'll have to find >someone else to fight with- I'm not interested. I am interested in >what benefits my community as a whole. That's why I teach others how >I grow and market. I would rather live in a community where there >are so many organic farmers that I would have to quit farming, find >a job so I could buy all this fresh, nutritious food . It's about >enriching the community rather than hoarding information and money. >And you'll have to look to your own soul for the answer about what >is evil. And now, Anita's comment: Perhaps it is not an "us against them" question; perhaps it is a "me vs. us" question. Whether tis nobler to be greedy, competitive, and self centered (me, me, me, MEEE!), or whether tis nobler to work for the good of the community (us). Well, at some point we may realize that we can't do the former without doing the latter. I'm all for efficiency, good management, and prosperity, but the idea that it has to come at the expense of other responsible, hardworking, well-meaning people (as was suggested in Dale's letter) is just absurd. It is equally absurd to assume that prosperity can only come at the expense of ecosystems and the welfare of farm animals. It has become a paradigm, however -- a "truth" that we take for granted. The founding fathers of this paradigm are often thought of as Darwin or Adam Smith (of "invisible hand" fame), but I don't think that either of these fellows imagined where there followers might go with their ideas. Thank to John Ikerd, I offer you the following quotations from Smith's _Wealth of Nations_: "Servants, labourers, and workmenof different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, clothe, and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour to be themselves tolerably well fed, clothed, and lodged. (p. 36) He goes on to say, "The man whose whole life is spent in performing a few simple operations, of which the effects too are perhaps always the same, or very nearly the same, has no occasion to exert his understanding, or to exercise his invention in finding out expedients for removing difficulties which never occur. He naturally loses, therefore, the habit of such exertion, and generally becomes as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become." (p. 350) I can't imagine that Dale or anyone else wants to live in a world of stupid and ignorant people (or much less be one). When we do our best at whatever we do, we work for our own self interest, as Smith encouraged us to do, but even Smith says that the goal of all this is work toward "employment most suitable to the interest of society" (p.311). By rejecting most poisons and contaminents and working toward the goal of soil fertiility and sustainabilty, organic agriculture is already taking the first step toward changing the current paradigm of exploitation=prosperity. There are still many who say that people can't be fed without destruction to soils, waters, and air, just as there are people who still think that one cannot run a prosperous business without doing damage to those around him. I applaud both Alex and Greg for taking a stand against this sort of mentality, and I support the idea that organic agriculture is one in which not only ecosystems and farm systems are protected, but one in which families and people in general can be respected and allowed to thrive, not just survive as stupid and ignorant dolts of a country run by the Tysons, ADMs and Monsontos of the world. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 11:25:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22413 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19503 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:32:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19446 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coop.ext.colostate.edu (coop.EXT.ColoState.EDU [129.82.139.50]) by mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16370 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:32:12 -0600 Received: from nrcs3.cohugo.fsc.usda.gov (nrcs3.cohugo.fsc.usda.gov [199.153.37.252]) by coop.ext.colostate.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA10532 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:31:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199907071431.IAA10532@coop.ext.colostate.edu> From: "Will Arnold" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:37:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Agricultural Entrepreneur centers Reply-to: warnold@coop.ext.colostate.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1566 Hello net users, I am looking for information about any known Agricultural Entrepreneur (agripreneurs as I have heard them called) Centers. In particular I am looking for information about any entity that offers a service to individuals and/or groups interested help in the following areas: 1. Research and product development 2. Feasibility studies 3. Business incubation services 4. Market research 5. Trade areas/distribution cost/benefit analysis 6. Any thing else to help get a business up and going. I am not talking about many of current programs that want to fit you to their model rather that offer a service to help a person or group formulate and idea before going throughout the process of a business plan, and getting a loan. Where creativity is valued not the bottom line or limitations of the program. Are there such places in existence? I know of one in Kansas City but it must be geared toward the development sustainable ag and natural resource base. Thanks. Will To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 12:01:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23031 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12580 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:13:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12500 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.163] (ke-ppp13.hevanet.com [198.5.254.163]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA27637; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907071513.IAA27637@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 08:13:50 -0700 Subject: FW: Orange Cauliflower May Help Boost Nutrition From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1567 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Orange Cauliflower May Help Boost Nutrition Date: Wed, Jul 7, 1999, 7:13 AM STORY LEAD: Orange Cauliflower May Help Crop Scientists Boost Nutrition ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Hank Becker, (301) 504-1624, hbecker@asrr.arsusda.gov July 7, 1999 ----------- An orange cauliflower plant, found growing in a Canadian field nearly 30 years ago, could provide important genetic clues for boosting the nutritional value of many different crops. The mutant cauliflower produces so much beta-carotene--an orange pigment in carrots and other fruits and vegetables--that normally white parts of the plant turn orange. Beta-carotene belongs to a class of compounds known as carotenoids, important to human nutrition. Plant molecular biologist David F. Garvin at the Agricultural Research Service is studying the mutant cauliflower as a model for unraveling the biochemical and molecular basis of carotenoid production in crops. Chemical analyses indicate beta-carotene concentrations in some tissues of the mutant are several-hundred-fold higher than normal cauliflower, according to Garvin at the U.S. Plant, Soil and Nutrition Laboratory in Ithaca, N.Y. The lab is part of ARS, USDA's chief research agency. Beta-carotene has antioxidant properties that may reduce the incidence of cardiovascular disease and certain types of cancer. It's also an important source of vitamin A. But many crops important to human diets contain little or no beta-carotene. Garvin hopes the research will ultimately provide information needed to genetically engineer increased carotenoid content in important crops like wheat and rice that lack the compounds. Various characteristics of the mutant have led Garvin to postulate that an altered gene in it may act as an important switch for turning carotenoid production on or off. The programming error, according to Garvin, is due to an alteration in one gene. His preliminary molecular studies suggest this gene alteration may influence other genes required for synthesizing beta-carotene. A story about the mutant cauliflower appears in the July issue of Agricultural Research magazine and on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jul99/cauli0799.htm ---------- Scientific contact: David F. Garvin, ARS U.S. Plant, Soil and Nutrition Laboratory, Ithaca, N.Y., phone (607) 255-7308, fax (607) 255-1132, dfg3@cornell.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 12:36:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23722 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA04707 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:47:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA04688 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:43:34 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:40:42 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Subject: Re: Social and Political Aspects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1568 Alex said, " can you look yourself in the mirror and say to yourself, 'I have been an accomplice to ruining family farms and putting families on the street' and go on with your day happily?" Anyone who shops at a supermarket is doing this. Anyone who takes Bill Duesing's advice to grow your own is doing this. I seem to detect a hidden belief that the world owes farmers a living. An earlier comment in reply to one of Dale's postings suggested an efficient business that resulted in others going out of business might be considered "cancerous". So, do we set up a system to pay growers for what they grow regardless of how technically efficient they are? David and I both mentioned the problem of externalities; the problem of overt and hidden subsidies is equally distorting -- and the majority of economists that I know not only don't support them, they are quite vocal in their oposition to them! I disagree that farmers who took advice to expand have (by implication, all) gone out of business. Further, the majority of corporate farms are incorporated FAMILY farms. Why is it assumed that big=non-sustainable? A successful ecological farmer -- one who puts high-quality, competitively-priced products in the markets, has the potential to expand to the limits of his management capabilities --> why do some folks seem to think this is bad? Should we aim for total self-sufficiency in food for each individual family? Should there never be "hired hands". The hidden social agenda in a lot of this discussion is mystifying --> I also think it clouds the issue of what kind of agricultural structure and content can be ecologically and economically sustainable. BOB ! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 13:16:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24505 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29855 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:34:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov [205.156.34.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29781 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megan.csc.noaa.gov (205.156.35.22) by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (Worldmail 1.3.167); 7 Jul 1999 12:34:12 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990707120151.00b31880@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov> X-Sender: mterebus@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:21:35 -0400 To: Bob MacGregor , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, waldenfarm@sprintmail.com From: Megan Terebus Subject: Re: Social and Political Aspects In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1569 I think the larger issue in this whole discussion is the definition of sustainability. I also think that people seem to forget that sustainability can be attained millions of different ways and the key to the whole universe is creativity and diversity... and open-mindedness. While it may be sad when a farmer gets put out of business, that happens everyday and the way not to let that happen is for he/she to stay on top of things and be willing to change things around from time to time. If he/she won't do this, then maybe he/she deserves to be knocked on the head a little bit and shown that he/she isn't always right. As for the larger vs. smaller farm issue, whoever mentioned efficiency nailed it. A large farm that runs things tightly is going to last. Also it will be a good educational tool and example for others to study and follow. The same goes for a small farm that is run efficiently. As long as the individual farm operators have sustainability in their minds, what is the benefit of having a larger or smaller farm? I, personally, am partial to smaller farms simply because I like the atmosphere around them, but that doesn't mean that everyone has to like smaller farms and it also doesn't mean that I think that all large farms should be run out of town. It seems to me that this list sometimes forgets that there is another opinion out there that may be just as right as the first. We sometimes think that just because someone runs a large farm they must be "bad" while the person down the stream from them drinks clean water everyday. We get lost in the categories and forget that more than one type of system can still fit right inside the foundations that we all seem to believe in. But, I guess that is what makes for interesting reading. -megan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Megan Terebus Farm Program Developer Agricultural Conservation Innovation Center 2234 South Hobson Avenue Charleston, SC 29405 Ph. (843) 740-1326 Fx. (843) 740-1331 email: megan.terebus@agconserv.com www.agconserv.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 14:26:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26077 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA14702 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:44:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ncnoc.ncren.net (ncnoc.ncren.net [192.101.21.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA14696 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatmail.ncat.edu (ncatmail.ncat.edu [152.8.244.149]) by ncnoc.ncren.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08204 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ag.ncat.edu (agnus.ag.ncat.edu [152.8.33.7]) by ncatmail.ncat.edu (2.1.1/8.9.1/Execmail 2.1) with SMTP id NAA27051 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from talbottc.ncat.edu (unverified [152.8.6.70]) by agnus.ag.ncat.edu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 13:52:02 -0400 Message-ID: <003101bec8a8$55839420$46060898@talbottc.ncat.edu> Reply-To: "Charles W. Talbott" From: "Charles W. Talbott" To: Subject: Graduate Positions Available Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:41:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1570 Two Graduate Student Positions available to study Integrated Crop/Animal Systems Two positions are available for '99 fall semester for Graduate Students interested in studying Integrated Crop/Animal Systems. This project will examine: 1) potential for adding mulches on dry lots to enhance swine waste utilization in developing organic vegetable plots, 2) productivity of gestating sows fed a typical corn/soy diet or one supplemented with forages, 3) potential to improve woodlands under two stocking rates of swine and, 4) methods for small scale producers to enhance their market share and profitability. There is funding available to support two Graduate Students. Applicants should have a background in soils and/or animal production. Interested candidates should apply to: Dr. Charles Talbott 101 Webb Hall Greensboro, NC 27411 (336) 334-7672 (336) 334-7288 fax talbottc@ncat.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 14:31:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26155 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA12539 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:40:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12419 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00ED9A82@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:37:44 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 7 Jul 99 13:39:53 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 7 Jul 99 13:39:28 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:39:19 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Social and Political Aspects In-reply-to: <199907071433.KAA19933@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <41E9EEC0136@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1571 David wrote: > Maybe I'm just defending my chosen discipline, but I think economics is a useful > way of lookin at things, and markets may be the best way to allocate resources > Any thoughts? > Well, since you asked... Having found myself in this same funny discipline as you, I am able to follow your sound logic and econ jargon, and can very much appreciate the fact that you regard yourself as a "frequent critic" of the profession. It is my experience so far, that although economics can be used as an excellent tool for understanding certain aspects of society (like markets) and *should* be used to efficiently allocate resources, it is often used in careless and dangerous ways. (For example, externalized costs are rarely addressed.) It's sort of like the discipline of statistics which should help us get at the truth but is just as often employed to obfuscate it. We all have a remarkable way of bending most types of evidence and academic tools until they "prove" whatever it is we were hoping to prove -- especially in the realm of social science. Like any tool, it is only as good as the person employing it, which is why I think it is imperitive that issues of ethics, spirituality and morality be discussed openly. There is an ethical dimension to every decision we make, and only by bringing this out of the closet (having been stashed behind the cloaks of "objective" science) can we hope to make good use of any of our tools. I guess what I'm saying is that there is no "biology" without "social and political aspects." And to this I would add the aspect of spirituality/morality. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 15:05:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA27183 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA09510 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA09454 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:26:52 -0400 (EDT) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: (from nobody@localhost) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA24102; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907071826.OAA24102@travelers.mail.cornell.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: travelers.mail.cornell.edu: nobody set sender to dsc17@cornell.edu using -f To: Bob MacGregor , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Reply-To: dsc17@cornell.edu References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.0 X-Originating-IP: 132.236.126.57 Subject: Re: Social and Political Aspects (again) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1572 I feel like one reply to my posting unfairly put words in my mouth: I never said that big=efficient. Quite the contrary, if all costs of production and processing (especially ecological and sociological)were accounted for in the price of a good, and all benefits (including external ones, like a more heathy eco-system and aestheitc benefits of farms)were reflected in revenue, small may very well be more efficient My point was that the problem lies in the way that costs and benefits are measured and the policies that allow firms to externlize their own costs, not with the discipline of economics or even markets per se. Other than efficiency (measured, say, by the lowest cost per unit of benefit, however you choose to measure these things), I wonder what other criteria ought to be used to allocate resources? Centrally planned economies have had huge eco/socio costs as well... I agree that costs like pollution, displaced families, dying rural towns, etc. and benefits like those mentioned above, ought to be included in the price of s good. However, these concepts are extremely difficult to measure..most economists I know just assume them away. Maybe I'm a rat on a sinking ship..maybe I'm honorably trying to reform my profession. I'd like to think the latter..and that it is worth reforming David To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 15:58:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA28452 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03419 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:09:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from orion.U.Arizona.EDU (spring@hydra.U.Arizona.EDU [128.196.137.174]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA03408 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (spring@localhost) by orion.U.Arizona.EDU (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA12760 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:09:43 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:09:43 -0700 (MST) From: Cari L Spring To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: ants Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1573 Hi all . I'm trying to solve some ant problems, having tried several things, none working. I don't know the names of the four species which are causing problems. Descriptions: small red ants; flying ants; large black ants; large red ants. Tucson Sonoran Desert. Does anybody know any solutions? thanks much. Cari Spring ---------------------- Cari L Spring (520) 621-7343; spring@u.arizona.edu Faculty Development Specialist University Teaching Center, U of A To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 17:45:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA00554 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA03965 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:57:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA03957 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3MQ81BRN>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:57:20 -0500 Message-ID: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB062CB68C@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Social and Political Aspects Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:57:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1574 Sanet; I think this has been an excellent exchange of viewpoints on economics, politics, society, and sustainable agriculture. I doubt that I have much to add. But, at the risk of putting words to someone else's thoughts, it seems to me that most (not all) of the apparent conflicts in views arise from a felt need to set specific standards by which to measure success, progress, or sustainability. Some would measure success in terms of dollars and cents, and would try to put dollar and cent values on all ecological and social costs and benefits so they could be brought into the market place for allocation. Others would prefer to measure all costs and benefits in terms of their impacts on the lives of people and would prefer to convert dollars and cents, or even environmental impacts, into their value to society and would attempt to allocate resources through the political process. Still others, although not mentioned in the most recent exchange, see the natural ecosystem as the ultimate arbitrator of all values, including economic and social values, which can be addressed only through an expression of ethical or spiritual values. Each approach seem more logical than simply dealing with one dimension - be it economic, social, or ecological - and ignoring the others or assuming them away. But, I contend that no single scale of value - economic, social, or ecological - is adequate to measure true success, progress, or sustainability. We cannot ignore economic efficiency - the pursuit of short run self-interest - but neither can we allow self-interest to dominate the broader interest of society nor to degrade our basic ethical or spiritual values. We should pursue our collective interest as communities of people, but we can't allow our individual human rights or the natural environment to be degraded by our collectivism. Certainly we should live ethical, moral, spiritual lives; but we cannot possibly do so without concern for our legitimate individual self-interests and concern for others, both of the present and future. True quality of life is a product of all three - self-interest, shared-interest, and altruistic-interests. We are just kidding ourselves if we think we can live a life of quality without some reasonable balance among all three. The three dimensions of sustainability - economic, social, and ecological - reflect these same three dimensions of quality of life. All three are inherently interrelated -- are but parts of the same whole -- but are fundamentally different. Markets may be efficient allocators of private goods and services - those things which fall in the realm of self-interests. Political processes can be efficient allocators of public goods - those things which fall in the realm of shared-interests. An ethical or moral consensus is the only logical means I can see for allocating ecologically goods and services, because they reflect our responsibilities as stewards of the earth. They do not belong to us, neither individually nor collectively, nor do our dollars or our votes change our ethical and moral responsibilities. No one measure is adequate for all three. And, we cannot allow any one measure to be used as a single yardstick of success, progress, or sustainability. Perhaps pursuit of pure economic self-interest would dictate that still more farmers go out of business. But on the other hand, perhaps putting more farmers out of business is socially and ethically wrong. If so, we might strengthen our economy only to discover that we have severely weakening the social and moral fabric of our society. We seem to assume that allowing all of the other family business to fail has been good for society, so now we should allow family farms to fail as well. Perhaps allowing individual enterprises to be replaced by large-scale, corporate entities has strengthened the economy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has been good for our society -- or for humanity. A "strong economy" in socially and moral bankrupt society is but an illusion of strength. It is not sustainable. It's not necessarily immoral to allow someone to fail at farming, or at other type of endeavor. But, we should always be willing to ask if we have fulfilled our social and moral responsibilities to provide them with opportunities to succeed, or have we allowed their opportunities to be suppressed by the pursuit of greed. It seems to me that attempts to build strong collective societies have failed because they put too much emphasis on society, shared interests, and too little emphasis on individuality and spirituality. It seems that religious societies are inherently weak because they put too much emphasis on spirituality, altruistic interests, and give too little attention to social and individual values. It seems obvious to me that what we, in the so-called developed societies, are seriously at risk because we are putting far too much emphasis the individual, on short-run self-interests, and are giving too little concern to our common good and to our ethical and moral responsibilities. It is quite easy for me to believe that in most instances, we are putting too much emphasis on economics and too little on just about everything else. A sustainable society requires balance and harmony not dominance and suppression. In the days of Adam Smith, our "founding fathers" assumed that they didn't have to worry about balancing self-interest with social and ethical values. Smith and others assured them that the pursuit of self-interest was consistent with the greatest social good - and that quite likely was true in those days. Most economic enterprises were farms and other small, family operations, and ethics and morality were the dominant forces in an economically depraved society. They didn't see a need for an economic bill of rights to ensure equity of economic opportunity or to protect individuals and society from economic tyranny. They didn't see a need for an ecological bill of rights to protect the environment from human ignorance and greed. But we live in a different world today. Practically none of the assumptions required for Adam Smith's invisible hand to change "greed to good" hold true in today's economy. If the founding fathers were drafting a new constitution today, they undoubtedly would seek to ensure the protection of individuals, society, and the environment from the tyranny of economic greed. Smith and Jefferson both foresaw the day when further "enlightenment, new discoveries, new truths, and changes in circumstances" would warrant changes in the constitution. If we are to ensure sustainability, I believe that day has come. But, that's a whole-other paper. (Any who are interested may check it out at http://www.ssu.missouri.edu/faculty/jikerd/papers/billorri.htm ) John Ikerd To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 18:08:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA00890 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA15917 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:17:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15846 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.79]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990707211645.NENZ2808@worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:16:45 +0000 Message-ID: <3783C399.7D0EE746@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:16:09 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cari L Spring , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: ants References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1575 Cari, Ants, unless they endanger other animals or injure you, are beneficial organisms and prey on bad insects. However, if ants still need controlling, try red pepper --as in Cayenne, or liquid red pepper, as in Tabasco sauce helps. I've controlled fire ants, which we have in South Louisiana, by mixing 1/2 C. Tabasco with enough red Cayenne to form a thick paste. And then, adding the mixture to a gallon of hot to boiling water which I pour on large ant mounds. If ants come into the house: with a pastry brush, paint along the window mullions where they may enter. What I've noticed is that the lead ants has doubled over (in pain) and gone back the same way to warn the others. I treated my windows 10 years ago and they have not been back since. Also, cucumber seeds and rinds deter ants from coming through electrical sockets, I've learned. Another solution is spent coffee grounds which I've collected from local coffee shops. Usually I can collect at least a quart a day. Dumping the used grounds on the mounds, also helps solve the ant problem. It depends upon the size of the mounds as to how much you'll need. Lagniappe (something extra) is that earth worms really enjoy spent coffee grounds! Boiling water works. But boiling water also sterilizes the soil and kills beneficial organisms, as well as destructive ones; not to mention that it kills roots. Likewise, diatomaceous earth (DE) works. But, again, it kills beneficials as well as destructive pests. Regardless of which method you use, stir with a long stick and stand back. The surviving ants come out fighting mad!!! Bunny Snow ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Cari L Spring wrote: > Hi all . I'm trying to solve some ant problems, having tried several > things, none working. I don't know the names of the four species which > are causing problems. Descriptions: small red ants; flying ants; large > black ants; large red ants. Tucson Sonoran Desert. Does anybody know any > solutions? > > thanks much. > > Cari Spring > > ---------------------- > Cari L Spring > (520) 621-7343; spring@u.arizona.edu > Faculty Development Specialist > University Teaching Center, U of A > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 18:59:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01603 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA19720 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:14:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f25.hotmail.com [209.185.131.88]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA19712 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 72879 invoked by uid 0); 7 Jul 1999 22:14:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19990707221403.72878.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.179.251.151 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Jul 1999 15:14:02 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.179.251.151] From: Emily Young To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 15:14:02 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1576 Sanet- I am a student from Cornell University doing an internship with Indigo Development, the sustainable development division of RPP International of Oakland, CA. Indigo Development is working on creating an Eco-Industrial Park in Puerto Rico and one component of the park will be an organic farm. We are hoping to use bi-products of other businesses in the park as imputs into the farm as well as to cycle farm outputs back into the other businesses (which will include a paper mill and a waste to energy facility, among others.) I am working on the sustainable agriculture component of the park, trying to understand the support cluster associated with an organic farm. I am writing to ask for your help in my search. The construct of an organic, sustainable system is so different from the construct of an industrial agriculture operation. I would like to know about the specific needs of an organic farmer and the necessary links and associations with other businesses and organizations. I am interested in any information about materials brought into the farm as well as bi-products that leave. It would be interesting to hear not only about the current construct of an organic farming system but also about the vision for an improved organization, i.e., what is needed but not availible? Some members I have thought about: -sustainable seed companies -distributors -research groups -SA NGOs -dairys or poultry houses -networks of farmers -insect suppliers >From these categories I am not sure what is availible. I would also like to know what else is needed. I realize that this question is rather broad, but I would like to leave it that way because I have seen from your postings that you are a diverse group, each with his or her own specialty and perspective. Thank you for any insight you could share, Emily Young _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 7 20:22:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA02794 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA09382 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:40:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA09337 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id SAA17284; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:40:36 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma017045; Wed, 7 Jul 99 18:39:34 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:39:34 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDF4@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'waldenfarm@sprintmail.com'" Subject: RE: Social and Political Aspects Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:39:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1577 Alex, > They must become schizoid to work all day for a company that > kills and destroys, has no ethics- is driven by profit motive > only and then be able to go home and try to feel good about > themselves. Or they decide that what is done in the business > world is different from what they do in their private lives I don't know anybody like that, and I don't know any companies like that. Being part of the system (including being a consumer) is a matter of shades of grey not black versus white. The choices we are confronted with are not so clear. The need is to look at issues with a fresh perspective, and somehow see past current cultural and political distortions. > And, IMO, it's just as schizophrenic to say that the social and > political aspects of sust. ag. should be discussed as a separate > issue, away from the biologic. Sure these are interrelated, but you have to know what is being discussed, define terms, and jointly understand the structure of the issue, to discuss things successfully. Use of loaded terms is a common powerplay, a way to control the dialogue. It is evidenced by use of poorly defined words of indeterminate scope like patriarchy, oppression, wise-use, sustainability, right-to-life, etc. The purpose of these things is to reinforce partisanship, not to illuminate. The way it works is to get people to give assent to the hidden meanings of the term, in a blanket sense, often by reference to lofty ideas like holism or righteousness, or based on someones authority. There is no defined set of hidden meanings. The content is determined ad-hoc by the people in charge. When an individual disagrees with some small component, all of a sudden they are anti-life, racist, or anti-wisdom. The word is like a trojan horse, with all sorts of ideological exotica packed inside. When someone takes issue with one hidden item, an emotional attack is launched, publicly fueled by the emotive, common-language meaning of the word, rather than the complex hidden meaning. > It is this kind of disassociated thinking that has gotten > us in the crisis we're in- social, political, economic, > ethical and spiritual. These must all be considered as a > whole, for they are inseparable and affect each other. Being human is what has gotten us into trouble. IMO, we have got to analyze these issues in a spirit of rational love, as humble scientists picking apart the system to understand it's workings. The trouble with an emotional approach is that it is too susceptible to the vagaries and manipulations of partisans. Charismatic leaders who urge us to swallow opaque concepts whole, without inspecting the parts are to be distrusted. > It's not us and them- you're reading too much into my words. > You may need to search yourself to see if you have a prejudice > somewhere that leads you to this when you read words that > disagree with your position. I know I struggle each day to > convert my prejudices. I feel like Sanet is loaded with misunderstanding and propaganda. I am probably mistaken to some extent, but that is how I feel. I struggle all the time to reconcile the things I read here with my technical and personal experiences. > I hope that you will some day realize that we can no longer > disassociate if we wish to survive and prosper- real prosperity, > not money and possessions. And please do not cry, "Foul" every > time someone talks of all aspects of an issue. We need to be > doing more of this. Disassociation in analysis of ideas is not so dangerous as the disassociation of people. I am going to tell you what I think is true, and I am going to cry foul when I feel you are being unfair. I agree, we need to keep talking about all aspects of these issues. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 01:29:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA07316 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA10910 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:15:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA10808 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.68]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:20:09 -0500 Message-ID: <37842645.1F31CEC@cillnet.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 23:17:09 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: [Fwd: Questions on organic livestock standards] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9E101CC7B18F05B0D76E93B6" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1578 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9E101CC7B18F05B0D76E93B6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Basically this is how I see it. The large producers make grape juice. The small PROFITABLE farmer will have to invest more time & talent and make fine wine. Floyd --------------9E101CC7B18F05B0D76E93B6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu ([152.1.45.61]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:32:51 -0500 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA10507 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:51:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10389 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04577 for ; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-25.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.73]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA24283; Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:54:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199907051454.JAA24283@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Wilson, Dale" , "sanet" Subject: Re: Questions on organic livestock standards Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 09:52:53 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk In the end, the only things that are going to work for small farms are going to be the things that somebody else can not or will not do. My family has raised hogs for at least four generations. Before the ARS, the land grants, and even the National Pork Producers Council got in on the research that has allowed mega scale, factory production a family could about guarantee that hog production was the mortgage lifters. Now we have 30-40,000 sow units popping up all over the place that I helped pay for the research to make it possible as well as yours and my taxes subsidised them to get started (Seaboard is an excellent example!) and we wonder why we have an extreme oversupply in pork production. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how these economic, social, and environmental issues are intertwined. I haven't give up on the hogs, its justs this last year has bankrupted a lot of family hog farms. I still stand by my original post. Make it extremely difficult and somehow I have faith that the small farms will figure out a way to support their family. Besides, if the goal was to get rich wouldn't we do something besides farming anyhow? (Don't get me wrong, I know a couple of people that farmed sustainably for decades that were treated very well. Most were either milk or hogs and we are trying to lose both as commodity markets.) We are going to end up as organic hog farmers. I just hope that organic standards do not allow confinement production. Partly because of rural advocacy issues but primarily because of animal welfare issues. Consumers purchasing organic products should be receiving animals that have had access to fresh air and sunlight. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer Member USDA Small Farm Commission Supporter of Small Farms and Rural America ---------- > From: Wilson, Dale > To: sanet > Cc: 'Greg & Lei Gunthorp' > Subject: RE: Questions on organic livestock standards > Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 9:05 AM > > Greg, > > > Just to let everyone know, I strongly believe the same way as > > Gene Logsdon on organic production. The standards should be > > so strong that none of the big companies ever want to join in > > organic production. > > That's an interesting and revealing position. The bottom line in your > vision of "organic" agriculture is social and political, not biological. > > IMO, trying to keep the aggressive entrepreneurs out of the game will be > counterproductive. If there is money to be made in this business, > entrepreneurs, small, and maybe large, will be interested. The real meaning > of what you are saying is that you want to make the standards restrictive > and contrived enough to keep real wages of organic farmers at about four > dollars an hour. > > Dale > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------9E101CC7B18F05B0D76E93B6-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 10:49:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA13602 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04386 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:08:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04378 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 7200 ; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:09:45 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5501; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:09:46 -0400 Message-Id: <08JUL99.10975435.0031.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:09:44 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: Hart Haidn Subject: Canadian organic standard X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1579 For those of you following the development of organic standards in Canada, here is a recent press story on the official announcment of the new National Standard. The article was brought to my attention by Hart Haidn (hart.haidn@home.com) in Saskatchewan. By the way, Hart is organizing another organic conference to be held this fall (November 14-16) in Saskatoon. You can find more information on the conference, at http://agricola.homepage.com/ I would be remiss if I did not add the interpretive note that despite the impression presented in the article, there is still a ways to go before the standard will be effective. ------------------------------------------ Canada Introduces National Standard for Organic Agriculture} OTTAWA, June 29 //CNW// The Government of Canada unveiled a new National Standard of Canada for Organic Agriculture - a step that will clarify just what the organic in organic agriculture means. The Government of Canada made the announcement through the Canadian General Standards Board (CGSB) of Public Works and Government Services Canada, and the Standards Council of Canada (SCC), a federal Crown Corporation. The standard outlines principles for organic agriculture that endorse production and management practices that contribute to the quality and sustainability of the environment and ensure the ethical treatment of livestock. The joint announcement was made today by the Honourable John Manley, Minister of Industry and Minister responsible for the Standards Council of Canada, the Honourable Alfonso Gagliano, Minister of Public Works and Government Services, and the Honourable Lyle Vanclief, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. We now have a national standard that can be recognized and applied in markets around the globe, said Minister Manley. For Canadian producers of organic agri-foods produce this will translate to greater and easier access to international markets that demand these kinds of standards. Mr. Manley added that he was pleased to see the SCC actively promoting efficient and effective standardization in accordance with its mandate. I am very proud of the consensus-building work done by the Canadian General Standards Board in managing the development of this important new standard, said Minister Gagliano. It was developed through the CGSB Standards Committee on Organic Agriculture, which comprises various technical experts who provided broad-based input. Once again, the CGSB has demonstrated its unique expertise and valuable leadership as the Government of Canada s leading standardization organization. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency, which delivers all federally mandated food inspection activities, supported the Canadian organic industry in its efforts to establish the national standard. This new National Standard of Canada will provide consumers with a consistent meaning for organic , helping them to make more informed choices, said Minister Vanclief. All food produced in Canada, whether organic or not, must meet the same stringent requirements for safety and quality. Among its provisions, the standard: - prohibits use of ionizing radiation in the preservation of food - prohibits use of genetically engineered or modified organisms - encourages maximum use of recycling - encourages maximum rotation of crops and promotion of biodiversity. The document is available for purchase by the general public, and an abstract of the Standard will be available on the Web site of the Canadian General Standards Board (CGSB): http:////www.pwgsc.gc.ca//cgsb To order copies of the National Standard of Canada for Organic Agriculture, which will be listed as CAN//CGSB-32.310, contact: CGSB Sales Centre Ottawa, Canada K1A 1G6 Phone: (819) 956-0425 or 1-800-665-2472 (Canada only) Fax: (819) 956-5644 Email address: For English materials: ncr.cgsb-ongc@pwgsc.gc.ca To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 12:18:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15362 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16654 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:32:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16639 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.146] (br-ppp22.hevanet.com [198.5.254.146]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23943; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907081531.IAA23943@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:24:10 -0700 Subject: FW: First Biological Control Agent For Saltcedar From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1580 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: First Biological Control Agent For Saltcedar Date: Thu, Jul 8, 1999, 6:17 AM NEWS RELEASE: First Biological Control Agent For Saltcedar Released ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Kathryn Barry Stelljes, (510) 559-6069, stelljes@asrr.arsusda.gov July 8, 1999 ---------- TEMPLE, Texas, July 8--U.S. Department of Agriculture researchers will place about 3,000 eggs of Chinese leaf beetles in experimental field cages in six states as the first step in a biological control program for the invasive weed saltcedar. The trees, which can grow up to 30 feet tall, infest more than 1 million acres along rivers and streams throughout the West. "The leaf beetles eat only Old World species of saltcedar," said C. Jack DeLoach, an entomologist with USDA's Agricultural Research Service. Over the next few weeks, he and colleagues will place beetle eggs or larvae on caged saltcedar plants at sites in California, Colorado, Nevada, Texas, Utah and Wyoming. DeLoach, based at the ARS Grassland, Soil and Water Research Laboratory in Temple, leads the biological control project. "Saltcedar was brought into the U.S. in 1837 to protect streambanks from erosion," DeLoach said. "But no one realized that, without natural enemies, saltcedar would crowd out plants crucial to wildlife." The trees also degrade wildlife habitat, by increasing soil salinity, changing streamflows and increasing wildfire frequency. USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service today authorized permits, with concurrence from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, for ARS to release the beetles into cages at selected sites across the western U.S. DeLoach said that this is the first time biocontrol scientists have targeted a weed that can be important to an endangered animal--namely, the southwestern willow flycatcher, Empidonax traillii extimus. These birds nest in saltcedar in some locations where the trees had crowded out and replaced their native willow nesting sites. For this reason, ARS will conduct one year of field experiments during which the beetles will remain in cages. In addition, no beetles will be released in any areas near nesting flycatchers without approval from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. For the field tests, DeLoach and colleagues will erect 10-foot-square cages over existing saltcedar infestations along rivers and streams near Bishop, King City and Woodland, Calif.; Pueblo, Colo.; western Nevada (Lovelock, Schurz and Fallon); Seymour, Texas; Delta, Utah; and Lovell, Wyo. Diorhabda eggs will be placed on the saltcedar so the insects will have a food source upon hatching. Researchers will monitor the behavior of the beetles in the cages. "Diorhabda is an ideal biological control agent,"said ARS ecologist Raymond I. Carruthers. The beetle was tested extensively in China and in ARS quarantine facilities in Temple. Researchers have found no plants other than saltcedar on which the beetles feed and reproduce, and no native saltcedar relatives occur in the U.S. Carruthers leads the Exotic and Invasive Weeds Research Unit at the ARS Western Regional Research Center in Albany, Calif. "There has been some concern that the beetles will defoliate the saltcedar so quickly that the flycatchers will not have nesting areas," said Carruthers. "We do not expect this to happen. Biological control is a gradual process, and we expect willow trees to reestablish as saltcedar is slowly reduced," he said. When the beetles are ultimately approved for release outside the cages, they should spread out several hundred feet per year to infest other saltcedar plants adjacent to previously caged areas. Beetles would have to be collected and released at new sites to enhance saltcedar control. The biological control program for the saltcedar is just one of many steps USDA is taking to address the growing environmental and economic threat of invasive species. As part of a recently created Invasive Species Council, USDA , the Departments of Interior and Commerce will help draft a federal strategy to combat invasive species. The Administration's fiscal year 2000 budget proposal also includes more funding to fight these invasive species in the new millennium. ---------- Scientific contacts: C. Jack DeLoach, ARS Grassland, Soil and Water Research Laboratory, Temple, Texas, phone (254) 770-6531, fax (254) 770-6561, deloach@brc.tamus.edu; Raymond I. Carruthers, ARS Exotic and Invasive Weeds Research Unit, Albany, Calif., phone (510) 559-6127, fax (510) 559-6123, ric@pw.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 14:13:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA17658 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA16358 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:26:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from guppy.pond.net (guppy.pond.net [205.240.25.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA16309 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from thwacky (pBp26.pond.net [207.149.187.154]) by guppy.pond.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA22503 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990708101510.0092c880@mail.pond.net> X-Sender: kdowney@mail.pond.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:23:05 -0700 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "K. Downey, OMRI" Subject: OMRI Job Posting--closes August 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1581 OMRI Policy Director Job Posting Full time, top management position available with the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI), a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization founded in 1997. Its primary mission is to provide professional, independent, and transparent review of materials and compatible processes allowed to produce, process, and handle organic food and fiber. __Responsibilities__ * Develop and implement policies and decision processes directly related to the review of generic materials used in the production and processing of organic food and fiber. * Ensure the OMRI Generic Materials List is kept up to date with current legal and industry consensus of appropriate materials and processes. * Lead and manage the OMRI Advisory Council, an ad hoc body of industry experts devoted to generic materials policy considerations. __Qualifications Necessary__ * Considerable organic industry experience with an emphasis on materials issues. * Ability to manage highly technical reviews of materials. * Technical writing, library research, database management. * Ability to interact with the public, regulatory officials, and members of the technical and scientific community. * Articulate and capable of making cogent and defensible presentations. __Desirable Qualifications__ * Direct knowledge of certification and quality systems. * Advanced degree with emphasis on publication and policy development. * Ability to travel to meetings and conferences and interact with public. __Miscellaneous__ * Salary is $35,000 and up, depending upon experience. * Reports directly to OMRI Executive Director. May supervise Technical Director and Projects Coordinator. * Benefits include health insurance, paid vacations, and paid holidays. * Must live in or relocate to Eugene, Oregon area. * Must be able to start in the fall of 1999. __To Apply__ The OMRI web site at www.omri.org contains information on our work, or call us at 541-343-7600 for information. Please send a cover letter, resume or curriculum vitae, four references that we may contact via phone, and a sample of your writing to Kathleen Downey, Executive Director, Organic Materials Review Institute, Box 11558, Eugene OR 97440 USA . Job closes August 17, 1999. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 14:52:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18403 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA08209 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:06:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA08132 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.24] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id la951793 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:04:26 -0500 Message-ID: <005f01bec96d$2a4c1500$189fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "jim worstell" To: "Hal Hamilton" , "Wilson, Dale" , Subject: Re: Social and political aspects Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:17:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1582 By accepting a reductionistic three component definition of sustainability we invite people to delete or redefine the "social" component as wilsondo@phibred.com and others do. The original source for the three part definition seems to be misleading simplification of a 1984 analysis by Gordon Douglass. Douglass described three schools of thought regarding agricultural sustainability. The "community school" , in contrast to the other two schools, "pays most attention to the effects of different agricultural systems on the vitality, social organization, and culture of rural life". "[I]t's members are also ecologically minded, but their prime interest is in promoting vital, coherent, rural cultures that encourage the values of stewardship, self-reliance, humility, and holism". The "social aspects" then become not one leg of sustainability, but the entire foundation. Any economic or ecological "profit or loss" results from these social structures. Such an approach underscores the qualitative difference of sustainable and conventional agricultural systems. Think about abandoning component thinking for a more holistic approach. Aren't "vital, coherent rural cultures" common to all sustainable agricultural systems? Stressing profit and ecology instead, as we have here in the U.S., have led us into our present quagmire of agricultural crisis. Social organization which encourages "the values of stewardship, self-reliance, humility and holism," appears to provide the long-term solution. Yet we've allowed such concepts to be marginalized to the point of extinction in ag policy debates. Douglass' book, Agricultural Sustainability in the New World Order, in out of print, but a webpage discussing some of his ideas can be found at www.canr.msu.edu/bailey/background/pub 3. htm. -----Original Message----- From: Hal Hamilton To: Wilson, Dale ; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 11:34 AM Subject: RE: Social and political aspects (was: Questions on organic livestock...) >Dale, > >Sustainable agriculture, as defined by Congress and many others, has a social leg to balance environmental and economic legs. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 14:52:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18432 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA09054 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:07:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA08967 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 15:02:53 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:59:59 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Junk Science and just, plain junk... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1583 for conspiracy theorists, the attached, from Agnet 8 July, might help you avoid missing the latest alarums.... *********************************************************** JUNKMAN TAKES ON JUNK SCIENCE: SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS TWIST RESEARCH TO SERVE THEIR OWN ENDS July 8, 1999 The Edmonton Journal A12 Lorne Gunter A story about Steven Milloy, who by day is an adjunct scholar at the Cato institute, a libertarian think-tank in Washington, D.C. But when special interest lobbyists, government scientists or industry executives, politicians or litigation lawyers attempt to twist science to their own self-serving ends, Milloy transforms into his alter-ego, Junkman. Milloy chuckles at such hyperbolic descriptions of his work as publisher of the Junk Science Home Page (www.junkscience.com), designated one of the top 50 science web sites of 1998 by Popular Science. But if Milloy is not a superhero, his single-handed effort to preserve scientific objectivity in public policy debates by debunking misleading and alarmist science is, the story says, heroic. Milloy says that the food police, the people who shriek on about the dangers of genetically modified food, or compare movie theatre popcorn unfavourably with fast food hamburgers, or generate panic over the unfounded contamination of Coke on European store shelves, are often motivated by hostility to profits or hatred of multinationals, or just an evangelical zeal for vegetarianism and animal rights. Cell phones, power lines, pesticides, apples, breast implants, soothers and intravenous bags have ``all been declared hazardous by one group or another, based on incomplete science or a subjective interpretation of results,'' says Milloy. All were later declared non-hazardous by panels of respected scientists, but not before tens of billions of economic damage had been done. ! ! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 15:17:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19003 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA14400 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA14371 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:22:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.24] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id xa951831 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:20:34 -0500 Message-ID: <006401bec96f$6ba3c3c0$189fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "jim worstell" To: "Hal Hamilton" , "Wilson, Dale" , Subject: Re: Social and political aspects Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:26:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1584 By accepting a three component definition of sustainability we invite people to delete or redefine the "social" component as wilsondo@phibred.com and others do. The original source for the three part definition seems to be misleading simplification of a 1984 analysis by Gordon Douglass. Douglass described three schools of thought regarding agricultural sustainability. The "community school" , in contrast to the other two schools, "pays most attention to the effects of different agricultural systems on the vitality, social organization, and culture of rural life". "[I]t's members are also ecologically minded, but their prime interest is in promoting vital, coherent, rural cultures that encourage the values of stewardship, self-reliance, humility, and holism". The "social aspects" then become not one leg of sustainability, but the entire foundation. Any economic or ecological "profit or loss" results from these social structures. Such an approach underscores the qualitative difference of sustainable and conventional agricultural systems. Think about abandoning component thinking for a more holistic approach. Aren't "vital, coherent rural cultures" common to all sustainable agricultural systems? Stressing profit and ecology instead, as we have here in the U.S., have led us into our present quagmire of agricultural crisis. Social organization which encourages "the values of stewardship, self-reliance, humility and holism," appears to provide the long-term solution. Yet we've allowed such concepts to be marginalized to the point of extinction in ag policy debates. Douglass' book, Agricultural Sustainability in the New World Order, in out of print, but a webpage discussing some of his ideas can be found at http://www.canr.msu.edu/bailey/background/pub3.htm -----Original Message----- From: Hal Hamilton To: Wilson, Dale ; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 11:34 AM Subject: RE: Social and political aspects (was: Questions on organic livestock...) >Dale, > >Sustainable agriculture, as defined by Congress and many others, has a social leg to balance environmental and economic legs. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 16:18:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20401 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA22144 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:34:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA22094 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3MQ8FA8G>; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:33:55 -0500 Message-ID: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB062CB698@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'jim worstell'" , Hal Hamilton , "Wilson, Dale" , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:33:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1585 Jim; I think you raise an excellent point concerning the natural tendency of people to want to dissect sustainability into three parts - ecological, economic, and social. I try to avoid the habit of referring to sustainability as having three "parts" - although the reductionism habit is hard to break. Instead, I think of sustainability as a single entity that has three distinct "dimensions" -- in the same sense that a wooden box has three dimensions; height, length, and width. A box that lacks any one or two of these dimensions is not a box at all, but instead is an infinitely thin board or stick. We can't understand the fundamental nature of a box by taking it apart and looking at its height, length, or width separately. We have to understand the concept of a box as a whole. But, once we understand the holistic concept of a box; knowing its height, length, and width become important descriptive dimensions. A fundamental problem with sustainability is that, unlike a box, we can't measure the three dimensions of sustainability using inches or feet or any single unit of measure. That's one reason why we simply cannot ignore the fact that sustainability has these different dimensions. It really doesn't matter to me whether we come to the sustainability issue from an economic, ecological, or social perspective, as long as we give due consideration to all three dimensions. I have no problem with your suggestion that we approach sustainability from a social/cultural perspective as long as we give adequate consideration to the economic and ecological dimensions. I agree that we have given far too much emphasis to the economics and too little emphasis to social organization in the past, but we don't want to make a similar mistake by ignoring the economic dimension in the future. We can't make a bigger box simply by making one that it taller, or wider, or longer - by concentrating on one dimension and ignoring the other two. You included "the values of stewardship, self-reliance, humility and holism" in your description of sustainable social organization. I just prefer to deal with the dimensions more explicitly so that none gets left out. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: jim worstell [mailto:jvworstell@futura.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:17 PM To: Hal Hamilton; Wilson, Dale; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Social and political aspects By accepting a reductionistic three component definition of sustainability we invite people to delete or redefine the "social" component as wilsondo@phibred.com and others do. The original source for the three part definition seems to be misleading simplification of a 1984 analysis by Gordon Douglass. Douglass described three schools of thought regarding agricultural sustainability. The "community school" , in contrast to the other two schools, "pays most attention to the effects of different agricultural systems on the vitality, social organization, and culture of rural life". "[I]t's members are also ecologically minded, but their prime interest is in promoting vital, coherent, rural cultures that encourage the values of stewardship, self-reliance, humility, and holism". The "social aspects" then become not one leg of sustainability, but the entire foundation. Any economic or ecological "profit or loss" results from these social structures. Such an approach underscores the qualitative difference of sustainable and conventional agricultural systems. Think about abandoning component thinking for a more holistic approach. Aren't "vital, coherent rural cultures" common to all sustainable agricultural systems? Stressing profit and ecology instead, as we have here in the U.S., have led us into our present quagmire of agricultural crisis. Social organization which encourages "the values of stewardship, self-reliance, humility and holism," appears to provide the long-term solution. Yet we've allowed such concepts to be marginalized to the point of extinction in ag policy debates. Douglass' book, Agricultural Sustainability in the New World Order, in out of print, but a webpage discussing some of his ideas can be found at www.canr.msu.edu/bailey/background/pub 3.htm -----Original Message----- From: Hal Hamilton > To: Wilson, Dale >; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 11:34 AM Subject: RE: Social and political aspects (was: Questions on organic livestock...) >Dale, > >Sustainable agriculture, as defined by Congress and many others, has a social leg to balance environmental and economic legs. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 16:42:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20901 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03433 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:56:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA03390 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:51:49 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:48:57 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: RE: Social and political aspects Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1586 The practical limitations to consideration of all three dimensions are considerable. What the resource economists are trying to do is construct a common numeraire. If your box's width is measured in inches, the height in barleygrains and the depth in ogglequats, it is difficult to describe its reality. If we cannot find a common numeraire for the economic, social and environmental dimensions, then we have no way to figure out the optimal balance among them --they cannot be considered holistically, as is most desirable. Some folks would, or course, weight economic returns or social well-being above environmental concerns; others might place the sacredness of species above ANY other concern. In aggregate, though, societies (indeed, the entire world society) must eventually come to terms with the inevitable tradeoffs among the three dimensions (sort of like saying the volume of the box is fixed, so expanding one dimension means reducing another to compensate --> too crude an analogy, since technology can introduce some flexibility in the world's economy/society/environment "box"; still, the world is finite in the end). If we cannot find an acceptable way of rating all factors against each other, we will always be locked into looking at them separately. The political process becomes the ultimate arbiter which will implicitly decide on the relative value of these factors (as reflected in subsidies, tax laws, incentives, endangered species or anti-pollution regulation, etc.). BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 8 16:47:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20989 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11168 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:08:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11062 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12860 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EE2GQKVZ; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 16:06:27 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:47:20 -0700 Subject: RE:ants Message-ID: <19990708.125235.3694.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6,17,28,33,37-38 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1587 Carl Spring asked about various kinds of ants in the Sornoran desert and Bunny Snow offered some possible controls. I agree with Bunny that they can be beneficial. For those that become troublesome, I've tried some of her methods with varying success but I'd like to add one that has worked for me: FEED THEM. All my recent experience has been in Phoenix, Tucson, and Sierra Vista, AZ and I wonder if desert ants follow the same rules as those elsewhere. Obviously, my specific methods work only for vegetarian ants, but the vegetarians have been the most troublesome to me. (The thought occurs to me that this could be extended to non-vegetarian foods, but I haven't tried it.) While I lived in Phoenix, I had an enormous hill of large red ants trooping through my garden for days at a time. They disappeared into my neighbor's weed patch and returned with pieces of pig weed (amaranth). They discarded the twigs and bracts outside the hill so I assume they wanted the seeds. I reached a truce with them by harvesting (every few days) a large pigweed and delivering it to the top of their hill. Then I didn't have to worry about accidentally making one of them mad and getting stung. After I moved to Sierra Vista, I learned about the kind of big red ants (maybe the same species, for all I know) that can denude a good sized tomato vine between sundown and sunup. I tried boiling water, pepper, nasty words and a few other things--all to no avail. Then I noticed they also collected mesquite blossoms. I put a bucketfull of mesquite blossoms under a screen mounted on a wooden frame (to keep the blossoms from blowing away). I repeated this daily for about a week. This distracted them from my tomato patch. Later in the year, similar ants from a different hill denuded some tree seedlings and a friend told me to mulch with alfalfa. It worked! The ants busily carried away alfalfa leaves and left my trees alone. Baled alfalfa is a lot less seasonal than pig weed seeds or mesquite blossoms and a heck of a lot less bother. I keep alfalfa around all the time now and use it to mulch whenever I even suspect those ants are headed for my plants. Besides the benefits of any mulch, it adds nitrogen to boot. Meanwhile, I may try some of Bunny's suggestions for the ants that protect aphids; I long ago gave up eating black-eyed peas as green beans because I got tired of being stung by the black ants (various sizes, but always black, for some reason) defending their ants. Best regards, Edna Weigel ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 10:46:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05474 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24321 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:27:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24316 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:27:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3MQ8FTZW>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:26:56 -0500 Message-ID: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB062CB69B@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'Bob MacGregor'" , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:26:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1588 Bob; The practical difficulties of dealing with three different measures of the same whole are considerable, and thus, the challenges before us are not trivial. However, changing a difficult question to one that is more easily answered does not answer the difficult question. The challenge is similar to that of dealing with humans as physical, mental, and spiritual beings - three dimensions of the same whole being. We are just beginning to realize that when we deal with only parts of people we create all sorts of unanticipated problems for whole people. Perhaps as we learn to deal with people as whole beings we will learn to deal with other wholes as well. We may learn also that relationships among the economic, social and ecological dimensions are not competitive, implying inevitable tradeoffs, but instead are complimentary, implying that all must grow in harmony together. As we learn, I suspect some sociopolitical process will become the ultimate arbiter among the economic, social, and ecological -- as you suggest. After all, the question of sustainability ultimately is about the nature of human intervention into natural ecosystems. Without people the question of sustainability becomes mute. Maybe we just need to accept the fact that people must give thoughtful consideration to their actions, individually and collectively, rather than blindly hope that something else or someone else, somehow, will turn their acts of individual greed in to societal good. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Bob MacGregor [mailto:rdmacgregor@gov.pe.ca] Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 3:49 PM To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: RE: Social and political aspects The practical limitations to consideration of all three dimensions are considerable. What the resource economists are trying to do is construct a common numeraire. If your box's width is measured in inches, the height in barleygrains and the depth in ogglequats, it is difficult to describe its reality. If we cannot find a common numeraire for the economic, social and environmental dimensions, then we have no way to figure out the optimal balance among them --they cannot be considered holistically, as is most desirable. Some folks would, or course, weight economic returns or social well-being above environmental concerns; others might place the sacredness of species above ANY other concern. In aggregate, though, societies (indeed, the entire world society) must eventually come to terms with the inevitable tradeoffs among the three dimensions (sort of like saying the volume of the box is fixed, so expanding one dimension means reducing another to compensate --> too crude an analogy, since technology can introduce some flexibility in the world's economy/society/environment "box"; still, the world is finite in the end). If we cannot find an acceptable way of rating all factors against each other, we will always be locked into looking at them separately. The political process becomes the ultimate arbiter which will implicitly decide on the relative value of these factors (as reflected in subsidies, tax laws, incentives, endangered species or anti-pollution regulation, etc.). BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 10:51:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA05556 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA06934 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:50:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06917 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:50:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA26615 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990709095741.007e5770@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:57:41 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: RE: Social and political aspects In-Reply-To: <199907082210.SAA15597@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1589 >Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 14:33:55 -0500 >From: "Ikerd, John E." >Instead, I think of sustainability as a single entity that >has three distinct "dimensions" -- in the same sense that a wooden box has >three dimensions; height, length, and width. A box that lacks any one or >two of these dimensions is not a box at all, but instead is an infinitely >thin board or stick. We can't understand the fundamental nature of a box >by taking it apart and looking at its height, length, or width separately. >We have to understand the concept of a box as a whole. Does this mean we have to think INSIDE the box? Happy weekend! Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization c/o Hampshire College 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 11:00:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05791 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA06996 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:51:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06951 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.250.253]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990709135007.FVNO4954@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:50:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3785FDE3.6A978B27@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:49:23 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: ants and other pests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A9D947E2193A89FB663E301B" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1590 --------------A9D947E2193A89FB663E301B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading of less toxic to non-toxic pest controls online at , I bought the inexpensive book entitled Natural Pest Control by Andrew Lopez, ''The Invisible Gardener''. Mr. Lopez has combined many of the ant ingredients, for example, which I had previously used separately. In addition, he recommends ''ant motels'' when using ingredients such as boric acid. Ants can frequent small openings in the motels, but other creatures that may be harmed by boric acid, cannot. He treats ants well by feeding them, and ''does them in''. There is good common sense in this book, too. For example, there are two ways of sterilizing the soil: one is with heat (like boiling water), the other is with chemicals (such as chemical fertilizers, herbicides and other pesticides. Remember, ''cide'' means to kill or cause harm, and ''pests'' can be anything including your children and pets. It's nice to know that there is a resource directory and guide available for natural controls and recommendations that avoid toxic, synthetic chemicals. ~Bunny Snow --------------A9D947E2193A89FB663E301B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading of less toxic to non-toxic pest controls online at <http://www.invisiblegardener.com/>, I bought the inexpensive book entitled Natural Pest Control by Andrew Lopez, ''The Invisible Gardener''.   Mr. Lopez has combined many of the ant ingredients, for example, which I had previously used separately.  In addition, he recommends ''ant motels'' when using ingredients such as boric acid.  Ants can frequent small openings in the motels, but other creatures that may be harmed by boric acid, cannot.   He treats ants well by feeding them, and ''does them in''.

    There is good common sense in this book, too. For example, there are two ways of sterilizing the soil: one is with heat (like boiling water), the other is with chemicals (such as chemical fertilizers, herbicides and other pesticides.  Remember, ''cide'' means to kill or cause harm, and ''pests'' can be anything including your children and pets.  
     
    It's nice to know that there is a resource directory and guide available for natural controls and recommendations that avoid toxic, synthetic chemicals.

    ~Bunny Snow --------------A9D947E2193A89FB663E301B-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 11:00:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA05796 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12043 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:02:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11966 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.50] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id va953779 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:00:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000801beca13$509e65e0$329fc2d1@jvworstell> From: "Jim Worstell" To: "Ikerd, John E." , References: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB062CB698@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> Subject: Re: Social and political aspects Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:58:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1591 John, I like your three dimensional box analogy much better than the three-legged stool. I guess I'm not so much interested in measuring the outside of the box as I am understanding how the box creates itself. Like many phenomena, the important dimensions of sustainability are as yet undefined. These dimensions could be said to be folded up inside the box--as in string theory, we know time and three dimensions, but several more are inaccessible to our observation. The three dimensions are the results. What are the causes of sustainability? Let's hypothesize that the vital cultures discussed by Douglass and Bawden, are at once the foundation and the generator of sustainability. Given that notion, the task is to define the values, assumptions and habits of such "learning communities" to determine which are causes of sustainability and which are epiphenomena or even detract from sustainability. Most people growing up on small farms close to no large cities, as you and I did, experience something less than a "vital rural culture." Something like the old German saying, "Cities make free" lead many to find vital community away from the often stultifying rural areas. So, "vital rural cultures" to many is a internal contradiction. Do you think this line of thought is worth pursuing? If you do, how would you do it? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ikerd, John E. To: 'jim worstell' ; Hal Hamilton ; Wilson, Dale ; Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 2:33 PM Subject: RE: Social and political aspects > Jim; > > I think you raise an excellent point concerning the natural tendency of > people to want to dissect sustainability into three parts - ecological, > economic, and social. I try to avoid the habit of referring to > sustainability as having three "parts" - although the reductionism habit is > hard to break. Instead, I think of sustainability as a single entity that > has three distinct "dimensions" -- in the same sense that a wooden box has > three dimensions; height, length, and width. A box that lacks any one or > two of these dimensions is not a box at all, but instead is an infinitely > thin board or stick. We can't understand the fundamental nature of a box > by taking it apart and looking at its height, length, or width separately. > We have to understand the concept of a box as a whole. But, once we > understand the holistic concept of a box; knowing its height, length, and > width become important descriptive dimensions. A fundamental problem with > sustainability is that, unlike a box, we can't measure the three dimensions > of sustainability using inches or feet or any single unit of measure. > That's one reason why we simply cannot ignore the fact that sustainability > has these different dimensions. > > It really doesn't matter to me whether we come to the sustainability issue > from an economic, ecological, or social perspective, as long as we give due > consideration to all three dimensions. I have no problem with your > suggestion that we approach sustainability from a social/cultural > perspective as long as we give adequate consideration to the economic and > ecological dimensions. I agree that we have given far too much emphasis to > the economics and too little emphasis to social organization in the past, > but we don't want to make a similar mistake by ignoring the economic > dimension in the future. We can't make a bigger box simply by making one > that it taller, or wider, or longer - by concentrating on one dimension and > ignoring the other two. You included "the values of stewardship, > self-reliance, humility and holism" in your description of sustainable > social organization. I just prefer to deal with the dimensions more > explicitly so that none gets left out. > > John Ikerd > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jim worstell [mailto:jvworstell@futura.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:17 PM > To: Hal Hamilton; Wilson, Dale; > sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Social and political aspects > > By accepting a reductionistic three component definition of > sustainability we invite people to delete or redefine the "social" component > as wilsondo@phibred.com and others do. > The original source for the three part definition seems to > be misleading simplification of a 1984 analysis by Gordon Douglass. > Douglass described three schools of thought regarding agricultural > sustainability. The "community school" , in contrast to the other two > schools, "pays most attention to the effects of different agricultural > systems on the vitality, social organization, and culture of rural life". > "[I]t's members are also ecologically minded, but their prime interest is in > promoting vital, coherent, rural cultures that encourage the values of > stewardship, self-reliance, humility, and holism". > The "social aspects" then become not one leg of > sustainability, but the entire foundation. Any economic or ecological > "profit or loss" results from these social structures. Such an approach > underscores the qualitative difference of sustainable and conventional > agricultural systems. > Think about abandoning component thinking for a more > holistic approach. Aren't "vital, coherent rural cultures" common to all > sustainable agricultural systems? > Stressing profit and ecology instead, as we have here in the > U.S., have led us into our present quagmire of agricultural crisis. Social > organization which encourages "the values of stewardship, self-reliance, > humility and holism," appears to provide the long-term solution. Yet we've > allowed such concepts to be marginalized to the point of extinction in ag > policy debates. > Douglass' book, Agricultural Sustainability in the New World > Order, in out of print, but a webpage discussing some of his ideas can be > found at www.canr.msu.edu/bailey/background/pub > 3.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hal Hamilton > > To: Wilson, Dale >; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 11:34 AM > Subject: RE: Social and political aspects (was: > Questions on organic > livestock...) > > > >Dale, > > > >Sustainable agriculture, as defined by Congress and > many others, has a > social leg to balance environmental and economic legs. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe > sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > with the command "subscribe > sanet-mg-digest". > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 11:47:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07150 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13995 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:54:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13909 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.190] (st-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.190]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA18997; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 07:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907091454.HAA18997@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:55:49 -0700 Subject: FW: Bacteria, Fungi May Be Crucial in Weed Biocontrol From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List CC: Marc Hayes Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1592 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Bacteria, Fungi May Be Crucial in Weed Biocontrol Date: Fri, Jul 9, 1999, 7:11 AM STORY LEAD: Bacteria, Fungi May Be Crucial in Weed Biocontrol by Insects ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Kathryn Barry Stelljes, (510) 559-6069, stelljes@asrr.arsusda.gov July 9, 1999 ---------- Microorganisms that live in the guts of insects and in the soil may be keys to enlisting Mother Nature against weeds, scientists with the Agricultural Research Service are reporting this week at an international meeting in Montana. Many scientists around the world study and import natural insect enemies to combat invader weeds, such as leafy spurge or spotted knapweed. Since 1865, the approach has been used against at least 118 weeds in 55 countries. But consistent success has been elusive. Microbes may be part of the reason, according to scientists with the ARS Northern Plains Agricultural Research Center in Sidney, Mont. They are reporting their findings this week at the "Biological Control of Weeds --X International Symposium," held July 4-9 at Montana State University in Bozeman. ARS microbiologist Barbara A. Frederick has discovered that several insects used as biological control agents for leafy spurge and spotted knapweed harbor bacteria known as Wolbachia. The bacteria affect sperm in the insects, causing offspring to be up to 90 percent female. The skewed gender ratio may reduce the insects' ability to reproduce. But other microbes are valuable insect allies. ARS plant physiologist Anthony J. Caesar has found that flea beetles imported to control leafy spurge have been most successful where naturally present soil-borne bacteria and fungi also feed on spurge. The microbes invade roots via wounds inflicted by insect larvae when they feed. Both findings suggest useful tactics for mass laboratory rearing of insects that would be released to attack weeds. Scientists are working on artificial diets to increase the insects' populations. In the future, they may try including in these diets a compound to rid the insects of undesirable bacteria. Or, they might add beneficial microbes to a diet, so the insects would transport them directly to the weeds. ARS is the USDA's chief scientific agency. ---------- Scientific contacts: Barbara A. Frederick or Anthony J. Caesar, ARS Northern Plains Agricultural Research Center, Sidney, Mont., phone (406) 482-2020, fax (406) 482-5038, bfredri@sidney.ars.usda.gov or caesara@sidney.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 11:51:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA07316 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:51:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA13202 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:50:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13186 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA17030; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:50:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Jim Worstell" , "Ikerd, John E." , Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:44:40 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000801beca13$509e65e0$329fc2d1@jvworstell> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA13190 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1593 Jim and John, etc., This seems to be an extraordinarily fruitful line of thought. My suggestion would be to ground it in actual experience and case studies. I think of a friend Arie van den Brand, who runs an network of "nature coops" in the Netherlands. These are groups of farmers who contract, as groups, with local authorities for payment to protect specifically defined biodiversity. It all started with concern over bird nesting, and the realization by enviro groups that farm fields were actually better for particular species than "wild" nature. The farmers have become expert at noticing species interactions and entrepreneurial in their development of contractual relationships. We might describe this as component reductionism, but it seems to me to be an example of what Jim calls a learning community in which relationships and continual learning lead to a more complex "box." The conversation also makes me recall long "lessons" from John Berry Sr., who described the tobacco program: "We created the program for people. The crop was incidental. The goal was to keep these families on these hills (as he waved his arm across the window of his little country law office), to support a local economy based on good grass farming, to make sure they could pay their notes and send their children to school." [Wes Jackson once observed that the best thing about the tobacco program in KY is that it subsidizes a grass based economy.] I also recall a group of Americans I was leading in France last year. We were visiting very successful coops and entrepreneurs, and a couple of our US participants kept asking, "What's your 10 year plan for the business? What are your long term goals?" The answer kept coming back that our hosts were satisfied with where they were, of course aiming to make improvements, sometimes with modest growth goals, but rarely with ambitious growth goals. The US participants at first thought the French farmers were lying--such is the power of our assumptions. After several more interviews we because clear that there was a significant cultural difference. These were people who had created successful products, were making money, but who had few aspirations to wealth. Protecting native meadows, keeping stocking densities low, developing relationships with consumers, supporting new allied businesses in their towns, celebrating traditional culture along with innovative ideas--all these ! aspects are intertwined. Supports your assertions, Jim, I think. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Jim Worstell Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 9:59 AM To: Ikerd, John E.; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Social and political aspects John, I like your three dimensional box analogy much better than the three-legged stool. I guess I'm not so much interested in measuring the outside of the box as I am understanding how the box creates itself. Like many phenomena, the important dimensions of sustainability are as yet undefined. These dimensions could be said to be folded up inside the box--as in string theory, we know time and three dimensions, but several more are inaccessible to our observation. The three dimensions are the results. What are the causes of sustainability? Let's hypothesize that the vital cultures discussed by Douglass and Bawden, are at once the foundation and the generator of sustainability. Given that notion, the task is to define the values, assumptions and habits of such "learning communities" to determine which are causes of sustainability and which are epiphenomena or even detract from sustainability. Most people growing up on small farms close to no large cities, as you and I did, experience something less than a "vital rural culture." Something like the old German saying, "Cities make free" lead many to find vital community away from the often stultifying rural areas. So, "vital rural cultures" to many is a internal contradiction. Do you think this line of thought is worth pursuing? If you do, how would you do it? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ikerd, John E. To: 'jim worstell' ; Hal Hamilton ; Wilson, Dale ; Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 2:33 PM Subject: RE: Social and political aspects > Jim; > > I think you raise an excellent point concerning the natural tendency of > people to want to dissect sustainability into three parts - ecological, > economic, and social. I try to avoid the habit of referring to > sustainability as having three "parts" - although the reductionism habit is > hard to break. Instead, I think of sustainability as a single entity that > has three distinct "dimensions" -- in the same sense that a wooden box has > three dimensions; height, length, and width. A box that lacks any one or > two of these dimensions is not a box at all, but instead is an infinitely > thin board or stick. We can't understand the fundamental nature of a box > by taking it apart and looking at its height, length, or width separately. > We have to understand the concept of a box as a whole. But, once we > understand the holistic concept of a box; knowing its height, length, and > width become important descriptive dimensions. A fundamental problem with > sustainability is that, unlike a box, we can't measure the three dimensions > of sustainability using inches or feet or any single unit of measure. > That's one reason why we simply cannot ignore the fact that sustainability > has these different dimensions. > > It really doesn't matter to me whether we come to the sustainability issue > from an economic, ecological, or social perspective, as long as we give due > consideration to all three dimensions. I have no problem with your > suggestion that we approach sustainability from a social/cultural > perspective as long as we give adequate consideration to the economic and > ecological dimensions. I agree that we have given far too much emphasis to > the economics and too little emphasis to social organization in the past, > but we don't want to make a similar mistake by ignoring the economic > dimension in the future. We can't make a bigger box simply by making one > that it taller, or wider, or longer - by concentrating on one dimension and > ignoring the other two. You included "the values of stewardship, > self-reliance, humility and holism" in your description of sustainable > social organization. I just prefer to deal with the dimensions more > explicitly so that none gets left out. > > John Ikerd > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jim worstell [mailto:jvworstell@futura.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:17 PM > To: Hal Hamilton; Wilson, Dale; > sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Social and political aspects > > By accepting a reductionistic three component definition of > sustainability we invite people to delete or redefine the "social" component > as wilsondo@phibred.com and others do. > The original source for the three part definition seems to > be misleading simplification of a 1984 analysis by Gordon Douglass. > Douglass described three schools of thought regarding agricultural > sustainability. The "community school" , in contrast to the other two > schools, "pays most attention to the effects of different agricultural > systems on the vitality, social organization, and culture of rural life". > "[I]t's members are also ecologically minded, but their prime interest is in > promoting vital, coherent, rural cultures that encourage the values of > stewardship, self-reliance, humility, and holism". > The "social aspects" then become not one leg of > sustainability, but the entire foundation. Any economic or ecological > "profit or loss" results from these social structures. Such an approach > underscores the qualitative difference of sustainable and conventional > agricultural systems. > Think about abandoning component thinking for a more > holistic approach. Aren't "vital, coherent rural cultures" common to all > sustainable agricultural systems? > Stressing profit and ecology instead, as we have here in the > U.S., have led us into our present quagmire of agricultural crisis. Social > organization which encourages "the values of stewardship, self-reliance, > humility and holism," appears to provide the long-term solution. Yet we've > allowed such concepts to be marginalized to the point of extinction in ag > policy debates. > Douglass' book, Agricultural Sustainability in the New World > Order, in out of print, but a webpage discussing some of his ideas can be > found at www.canr.msu.edu/bailey/background/pub > 3.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hal Hamilton > > To: Wilson, Dale >; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 11:34 AM > Subject: RE: Social and political aspects (was: > Questions on organic > livestock...) > > > >Dale, > > > >Sustainable agriculture, as defined by Congress and > many others, has a > social leg to balance environmental and economic legs. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe > sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > with the command "subscribe > sanet-mg-digest". > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 13:19:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09679 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA04494 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:20:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA04471 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3MQ8F62A>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:20:40 -0500 Message-ID: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB062CB6A0@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'Hal Hamilton'" , Jim Worstell , "Ikerd, John E." , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:20:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1594 Jim and Hal; I am certainly not smart enough to answer the questions that have been raised, and am not sure I even know where to start looking for the answers. But, your suggestions of starting by looking at actual cases -- farms, communities, cities, societies, etc. - and trying to understand what makes some at least appear to be more sustainable than others would seem to be a good place to start. The thing of which I am most sure is that we have to begin observing, asking questions, formulating hypotheses, and drawing conclusions using a fundamentally different paradigm of science - holism rather than reductionism, as suggested in Bawden's sabbatical paper. In a sense, we have to start over again. We all have something of value to contribute to this process -- we are all dimensions of the whole we are trying to understand -- but we need to admit our mutual ignorance as we search together for understanding. One parting thought on this subject, we need to think from OUTSIDE the box. >From the inside, a box looks too much like a prison cell. Have a good weekend! John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Hal Hamilton [mailto:hhamilton@centerss.org] Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 9:45 AM To: Jim Worstell; Ikerd, John E.; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Jim and John, etc., This seems to be an extraordinarily fruitful line of thought. My suggestion would be to ground it in actual experience and case studies. I think of a friend Arie van den Brand, who runs an network of "nature coops" in the Netherlands. These are groups of farmers who contract, as groups, with local authorities for payment to protect specifically defined biodiversity. It all started with concern over bird nesting, and the realization by enviro groups that farm fields were actually better for particular species than "wild" nature. The farmers have become expert at noticing species interactions and entrepreneurial in their development of contractual relationships. We might describe this as component reductionism, but it seems to me to be an example of what Jim calls a learning community in which relationships and continual learning lead to a more complex "box." The conversation also makes me recall long "lessons" from John Berry Sr., who described the tobacco program: "We created the program for people. The crop was incidental. The goal was to keep these families on these hills (as he waved his arm across the window of his little country law office), to support a local economy based on good grass farming, to make sure they could pay their notes and send their children to school." [Wes Jackson once observed that the best thing about the tobacco program in KY is that it subsidizes a grass based economy.] I also recall a group of Americans I was leading in France last year. We were visiting very successful coops and entrepreneurs, and a couple of our US participants kept asking, "What's your 10 year plan for the business? What are your long term goals?" The answer kept coming back that our hosts were satisfied with where they were, of course aiming to make improvements, sometimes with modest growth goals, but rarely with ambitious growth goals. The US participants at first thought the French farmers were lying--such is the power of our assumptions. After several more interviews we because clear that there was a significant cultural difference. These were people who had created successful products, were making money, but who had few aspirations to wealth. Protecting native meadows, keeping stocking densities low, developing relationships with consumers, supporting new allied businesses in their towns, celebrating traditional culture along with innovative ideas--all these aspects are intertwined. Supports your assertions, Jim, I think. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Jim Worstell Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 9:59 AM To: Ikerd, John E.; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Social and political aspects John, I like your three dimensional box analogy much better than the three-legged stool. I guess I'm not so much interested in measuring the outside of the box as I am understanding how the box creates itself. Like many phenomena, the important dimensions of sustainability are as yet undefined. These dimensions could be said to be folded up inside the box--as in string theory, we know time and three dimensions, but several more are inaccessible to our observation. The three dimensions are the results. What are the causes of sustainability? Let's hypothesize that the vital cultures discussed by Douglass and Bawden, are at once the foundation and the generator of sustainability. Given that notion, the task is to define the values, assumptions and habits of such "learning communities" to determine which are causes of sustainability and which are epiphenomena or even detract from sustainability. Most people growing up on small farms close to no large cities, as you and I did, experience something less than a "vital rural culture." Something like the old German saying, "Cities make free" lead many to find vital community away from the often stultifying rural areas. So, "vital rural cultures" to many is a internal contradiction. Do you think this line of thought is worth pursuing? If you do, how would you do it? ----- Original Message ----- From: Ikerd, John E. To: 'jim worstell' ; Hal Hamilton ; Wilson, Dale ; Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 2:33 PM Subject: RE: Social and political aspects > Jim; > > I think you raise an excellent point concerning the natural tendency of > people to want to dissect sustainability into three parts - ecological, > economic, and social. I try to avoid the habit of referring to > sustainability as having three "parts" - although the reductionism habit is > hard to break. Instead, I think of sustainability as a single entity that > has three distinct "dimensions" -- in the same sense that a wooden box has > three dimensions; height, length, and width. A box that lacks any one or > two of these dimensions is not a box at all, but instead is an infinitely > thin board or stick. We can't understand the fundamental nature of a box > by taking it apart and looking at its height, length, or width separately. > We have to understand the concept of a box as a whole. But, once we > understand the holistic concept of a box; knowing its height, length, and > width become important descriptive dimensions. A fundamental problem with > sustainability is that, unlike a box, we can't measure the three dimensions > of sustainability using inches or feet or any single unit of measure. > That's one reason why we simply cannot ignore the fact that sustainability > has these different dimensions. > > It really doesn't matter to me whether we come to the sustainability issue > from an economic, ecological, or social perspective, as long as we give due > consideration to all three dimensions. I have no problem with your > suggestion that we approach sustainability from a social/cultural > perspective as long as we give adequate consideration to the economic and > ecological dimensions. I agree that we have given far too much emphasis to > the economics and too little emphasis to social organization in the past, > but we don't want to make a similar mistake by ignoring the economic > dimension in the future. We can't make a bigger box simply by making one > that it taller, or wider, or longer - by concentrating on one dimension and > ignoring the other two. You included "the values of stewardship, > self-reliance, humility and holism" in your description of sustainable > social organization. I just prefer to deal with the dimensions more > explicitly so that none gets left out. > > John Ikerd > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jim worstell [mailto:jvworstell@futura.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:17 PM > To: Hal Hamilton; Wilson, Dale; > sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Social and political aspects > > By accepting a reductionistic three component definition of > sustainability we invite people to delete or redefine the "social" component > as wilsondo@phibred.com and others do. > The original source for the three part definition seems to > be misleading simplification of a 1984 analysis by Gordon Douglass. > Douglass described three schools of thought regarding agricultural > sustainability. The "community school" , in contrast to the other two > schools, "pays most attention to the effects of different agricultural > systems on the vitality, social organization, and culture of rural life". > "[I]t's members are also ecologically minded, but their prime interest is in > promoting vital, coherent, rural cultures that encourage the values of > stewardship, self-reliance, humility, and holism". > The "social aspects" then become not one leg of > sustainability, but the entire foundation. Any economic or ecological > "profit or loss" results from these social structures. Such an approach > underscores the qualitative difference of sustainable and conventional > agricultural systems. > Think about abandoning component thinking for a more > holistic approach. Aren't "vital, coherent rural cultures" common to all > sustainable agricultural systems? > Stressing profit and ecology instead, as we have here in the > U.S., have led us into our present quagmire of agricultural crisis. Social > organization which encourages "the values of stewardship, self-reliance, > humility and holism," appears to provide the long-term solution. Yet we've > allowed such concepts to be marginalized to the point of extinction in ag > policy debates. > Douglass' book, Agricultural Sustainability in the New World > Order, in out of print, but a webpage discussing some of his ideas can be > found at www.canr.msu.edu/bailey/background/pub > 3.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hal Hamilton > > To: Wilson, Dale >; sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu > > > > Date: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 11:34 AM > Subject: RE: Social and political aspects (was: > Questions on organic > livestock...) > > > >Dale, > > > >Sustainable agriculture, as defined by Congress and > many others, has a > social leg to balance environmental and economic legs. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". > If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe > sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > with the command "subscribe > sanet-mg-digest". > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 13:45:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA11396 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA24646 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:51:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA24595 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:51:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.43] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id aa954148 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:49:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01beca2b$e1be4460$2b9fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "jim worstell" To: "Bob MacGregor" , Subject: Re: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:22:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1595 Funny how our assumptions control us. We assume sustainability has three dimensions, realize they can't be measured in comparable units, and despair. Yet, if we assume sustainability results from "vital, coherent, rural cultures that encourage the values of stewardship, self-reliance, humility, and holism", then we needn't worry about quantitatively measuring the economic, social and ecological symptoms. We can confidently work to encourage such "vital rural cultures." Or, much more commonly, we assume sustainability is a crock because we assume that we'll be happy only when we get all that good stuff we see on teevee. We are usually so busy completing the destinies given us by our assumptions that we don't even recognize the assumptions (usually fears) controlling us. -----Original Message----- From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 3:15 PM Subject: Re: RE: Social and political aspects >The practical limitations to consideration of all three dimensions are considerable. What the resource economists are trying to do is construct a common numeraire. If your box's width is measured in inches, the height in barleygrains and the depth in ogglequats, it is difficult to describe its reality. >If we cannot find a common numeraire for the economic, social and environmental dimensions, then we have no way to figure out the optimal balance among them --they cannot be considered holistically, as is most desirable. Some folks would, or course, weight economic returns or social well-being above environmental concerns; others might place the sacredness of species above ANY other concern. In aggregate, though, societies (indeed, the entire world society) must eventually come to terms with the inevitable tradeoffs among the three dimensions (sort of like saying the volume of the box is fixed, so expanding one dimension means reducing another to compensate --> too crude an analogy, since technology can introduce some flexibility in the world's economy/society/environment "box"; still, the world is finite in the end). >If we cannot find an acceptable way of rating all factors against each other, we will always be locked into looking at them separately. The political process becomes the ultimate arbiter which will implicitly decide on the relative value of these factors (as reflected in subsidies, tax laws, incentives, endangered species or anti-pollution regulation, etc.). > >BOB > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 14:17:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12026 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA14098 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lserve.eharvest.com ([216.38.10.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA13946 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by LSERVE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3K4HR5TF>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:27:10 -0400 Message-ID: <21EE44311E24D31193F7009027731A80811C@LSERVE> From: Chris Lanteigne To: "'SANET-MG@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: What do you think? Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:27:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1596 Hello! Many of you have seen messages coming from eHARVEST.com and I would like to ask you all if there is anything you would like to see on http://www.eHARVEST.com If you have a website or know of a good one that's related to agriculture, feel free to visit http://www.eHARVEST.com and submit your site. It's free and will get you the results you want. With over 4300 sites and counting, eHARVEST.com is the Leading Resource for agriculture. If you have a classified ad that you want on the Internet, visit eHARVEST.com Classifieds at http://classifieds.eharvest.com Post up your ad here and hundreds users will see it each week, improving the chances of buying or selling what you want. Also check out our video section at http://www.eHARVEST.com/video for video clips on new ag products from top producers. eHARVEST.com wants to know what YOU think about our site. Email me if you have any comments, and hopefully eHARVEST.com can help you farm the Agri-Internet more successfully. Take care, Chris Lanteigne eHARVEST.com chrisL@eharvest.com ps: To subscribe to our free magazine, visit http://www.eharvest.com/subscribe.cfm?task=subscribe&sitecountry=world To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 14:18:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12055 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA12781 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:25:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net [207.41.144.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12687 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maxam.bluefin.net (maxam.bluefin.net [205.162.64.241]) by gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with SMTP id NAA18101 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907091725.NAA18101@gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net> X-Sender: stevem@pop.nh.ultranet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: stevem@nh.ultranet.com (Stephen Maxam) Subject: Re: Information is needed. Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1597 Try the Albert Lea Seed House In Albert Lea MN. They are definitely "in the biz", but they have a home grown flavor as well, if you'll pardon the expression. I've had a couple of their catalogs and found them an excellent source for cover crop seed. Their home page states both their willingness to get involved with the new technologies, but also their creation of a section in their catalog for organic growers. Their prices for such items as buckwheat, vetch, oats, and suchlike is breathtakingly low, but the freight tends to cut some of that edge. Their URL is http://www.alseed.com >Dear SANET Friends, > We are looking for data that compares the cost of hybrid seeds to the cost >of various genetically modified seeds. Also, we would like to know how much >is received for the product at the market. Yield comparisons are also needed. > If you have any information or sources please let us know. We are >preparing for a Senate hearing in Oklahoma and desire to present our >economic concerns as well as all the other issues surrounding the dangers >we see. > > > >***************************************************************** >Manjula V. Guru >Ag. Economist, >The Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture, Inc. >P.O.Box 588, Hwy. 271 South,Poteau, OK 74953. >Phone: (918)647-9123 >Fax: (918) 647-8712. >Email: manjula@kerrcenter.com >To use, to understand, to love the soil, is a civilizing process. > - Robert S. Kerr To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 14:37:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12949 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA17385 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:29:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA17220 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA12341 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [4.16.32.90] (PPPa31-ResaleOakland1-2R1016.saturn.bbn.com [4.16.32.90]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20841 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:28:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: greenman@pop2.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199907072210.SAA18897@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:26:36 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Douglas B. Johnson" Subject: Re: Agricultural Entrepreneur centers Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1598 >sanet-mg-digest Wednesday, July 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1134 > >In this issue: > > Agricultural Entrepreneur centers >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:37:26 +0000 >From: "Will Arnold" >Subject: Agricultural Entrepreneur centers > >Hello net users, > >I am looking for information about any known Agricultural >Entrepreneur (agripreneurs as I have heard them called) Centers. In >particular I am looking for information about any entity that offers >a service to individuals and/or groups interested help in the >following areas: > >1. Research and product development >2. Feasibility studies >3. Business incubation services >4. Market research >5. Trade areas/distribution cost/benefit analysis >6. Any thing else to help get a business up and going. > >I am not talking about many of current programs that want to fit you >to their model rather that offer a service to help a person or group >formulate and idea before going throughout the process of a business >plan, and getting a loan. Where creativity is valued not the bottom >line or limitations of the program. Are there such places in >existence? I know of one in Kansas City but it must be geared toward >the development sustainable ag and natural resource base. Thanks. >Will > Sanetters & Will Arnold, It's been awhile since I have posted to Sanet due to the demands of new employment with a small business incubator. The incubator, the Alameda Center for Environmental Technologies, provides services that correspond with items 3 and 6 in Will's note. Items 1, 2, 4, & 5 are pretty much the responsibility of the business entity. While I am aware of nearly 600 business incubators in the country, most, with a few exceptions, limit their support to items 3 and 6 as we do. One great example of this, in your "frontyard", Will, is the Denver Enterprise Center run by Dr. David Gonzalez. DEC recently started a shared kitchen incubator with the assistance of Dr. Cameron Wold (U of Colorado-Denver). It is my understanding that at DEC, as with most incubators, some consultation is available prior to actually setting-up shop in an incubator, but that a solid business plan is required to become an incubator tenant, to gain access to the "shared" facilities (with expensive kitchen equipment, this sharing is extraordinarily valuable to start-ups), and access to management and financial resources coordinated by incubator managers. The notable exceptions to this approach to business incubation are found nowhere else except in agriculture. Cornell has a few published reports on farmer's markets as business incubators. It's an easy stretch of the mind to see ag-based businesses incubating on the town square instead of in an incubator building per se. The perennial challenge is to determine which businesses on the square have the resource capacity, market, and earnings potential to justify more capital-intensive business development. (From a more esoteric, philosophical standpoint, if sustainability is our criteria, is growth of a business from the town square to a larger, less-of-a-direct-marketing approach, the right path to follow? It is entirely possible that if the sustainability of community, economy and nature are the principles, then nothing is superior to the one-to-one of the square. A "natural" constraint on growth, might be the key to realizing sustainability.) In either case, whether in a facility or on the square, idea formulation often takes place at home at the kitchen table. SBA, business schools, and Cooperative Extension all offer assistance in "solidifying the idea" before advancing to business plan stage and loan applications. Now, more to the point, with the exception of farmer's markets, I am not aware of any incubator that is oriented or committed to sustainable ag. One idea that I am looking at right now is whether it is feasible to establish a shared kitchen incubator with covenant requirements for organic content, local and regional farm supply, and other sustainability criteria related to the integrity of the supply chain that originates with land and communities. As the DEC demonstrates, a shared kitchen incubator is a powerful tool for economic development, so I have no doubt about the feasibility of an incubator located in similar economically-distressed neighborhoods/communities in the Bay Area; the unresolved question is whether an urban incubator can sustain itself if it imposes new ethical criteria on applicant/tenants of the incubator. My personal belief is that, yes, this sustainable ag shared kitchen incubator can work. As I envision this, I sense that an incubator with sustainable ag focus will educate the managers of start-ups, stimulate urban demand and build new markets for sustainable ag products in densely-populated, not-so-close-to-the-farm cities. I hope this helps, Will. With all the programs run by the USDA and Extension, surely there are some formal business development programs? I do not have any direct knowledge of programs that provide assistance to agripreneurs, and would appreciate learning from other's what is out there. Best Wishes, Douglas B. Johnson, Ph.D. Senior Associate Alameda Center for Environmental Technologies 851 West Midway Avenue Alameda Point Alameda, CA 94501 phone: 510.749.6869 fax: 510.749.6862 email: johnson@greenstart.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 14:42:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13057 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA19029 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:32:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tully.jetstream.net (tully.jetstream.net [207.23.175.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19000 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.23.187.184] (I184-P56.jetstream.net [207.23.187.184]) by tully.jetstream.net (8.8.7/SCO5) with ESMTP id KAA27171 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:35:28 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Rebecca Kneen Subject: feeding spent grains to livestock Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA19009 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1599 Hey folks - We are starting an organic microbrewery, integrated with our farm. We intend to feed the spent grains (post brewery use) to our livestock, and to compost what we can't feed. Does anyone out there have any information on whether spent grains would have a negative effect on ruminants, chickens or pigs? Basically, spent grains are what's left after the brewery has boiled the cracked malted barley in water for about 1-2 hours. The brewery captures only about 4% of the available protein and many of the B vitamins, but I don't know what the mineral content would be like. If anyone has used spent grains to feed livestock, please let me know how it worked out! Thanks everyone, Rebecca Cranng Ales Sorrento, British Columbia To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 15:46:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17197 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA10828 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:03:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA10776 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([131.104.238.25] (may be forged)) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA24149 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3786475D.B9F91576@uoguelph.ca> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:02:54 -0400 From: Ellen Wall X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: outside the box comments Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B6777597B224827960417B64" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B6777597B224827960417B64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In light of the Ikerd/Hamilton/Worstell commentary I can't resist reminding sanet readers about the "outside the box" conference being held in Guelph, Ontario, October 20-23/99. Details at www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/ --------------B6777597B224827960417B64 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ewall.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ellen Wall Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ewall.vcf" begin:vcard n:; x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Farming Systems Research;Plant Agriculture adr:;;University of Guelph;Guelph;Ontario;N1G 2W1;Canada version:2.1 email;internet:ewall@uoguelph.ca title:Research Scientist fn:Ellen Wall end:vcard --------------B6777597B224827960417B64-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 16:52:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20132 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA18303 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:06:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA18181 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:06:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07524 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3R4F3MD5>; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:01:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "'sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: priorities Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:01:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1601 sustainable agriculture groups might utilize this opportunity to gain some attention for their priorities for research and education cheers, craig CSREES Announces Stakeholder Priorities Website ===================================== CSREES announces the establishment of a website to facilitate easy access to the priorities of our stakeholders. The site provides direct links to the priority listings of organizations: (www.reeusda.gov/teststakeholders/stakeholders2.htm). These links are provided strictly as a resource that may be helpful to those working on agricultural issues. Our primary targets are commodity groups and scientific organizations that have established research and/or educational priorities. We believe this will be helpful to faculty and others as they prepare grant proposals for submission to our programs. This stakeholder website will be linked to the Funding Opportunities location in the very near future. If your organization wishes to be listed, please contact mfleming@reeusda.gov. Provide: (1) your organization's full name; (2) the website address where your priorities are listed; and (3) an organizational contact person. Please do not provide your homepage address, but instead a direct address to your priority listings. The Stakeholder Priorities index is designed for organizations, not individuals. Inclusion of an organization's priorities does not imply an endorsement or certification by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. CSREES reserves the right not to link to websites deemed inappropriate for the USDA's Research, Education, and Economics mission area. If you have other questions about this WebSite, please contact either PETER J. JOHNSON, DVM, Division Director in CSREES' National Research Initiative at 202-401-1896; pjohnson@reeusda.gov, or WILLIAM C. WAGNER, National Program Leader, Veterinary Medicine and Section Leader, Animal Systems in CSREES/Plant and Animal Systems Unit at 202/401-4952; wwagner@reeusda.gov craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 19:03:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22724 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA26822 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:01:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA26766 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool058-cvx.ds59-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.170.58]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id 3TCRXKRS; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:00:07 -0400 Message-ID: <37867466.26EE9CC5@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:15:02 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: spent grains- References: <199907091733.NAA19239@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1602 I highly recommend the feeding of spent grains to livestock- they love fresh brewery grains- and it seems that they can utilize the remaining complex carbo's, as well as the sugars that are not removed in the sparge. I have fed the grain from many different batches to cows, and they loved them all- ALSO some cows like the left over hops as well- If you wanted to get a better idea on the nutritional content, call up the Big Rock Brewery in Calgary, as i am fairly sure that they sell there spent grains to local farmers (as many breweries do) or call you local grain company. if you ever need any help- let me know ;-) Phil Gillman Sustainable Systems and Agriculture Marketing and Management pgillman@carfarmersmarkets.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 9 19:12:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22820 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01213 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:12:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01191 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.250.167]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990709221209.IDR4651@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:12:09 +0000 Message-ID: <37867395.3521E0BE@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:11:34 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Fw: Sludge disposal,or nutrient recycling? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1603 I contacted the RTK NET's (the Right-To-Know Network) for an area report of toxic release inventory [TRI] data for Chicago industries during 1997. The following is extracted from RTK NET's copy of USEPA's TRIS database. RTK NET is run by OMB Watch and Unison Institute at 1742 Connecticut Ave., NW, Washington DC, 20009 - Phone: 202-234-8494 (hours 9:00 AM -- 6:00 PM EST). What I learned was that Chicago businesses which meet the parameters of the law, filled out the paper work to the US EPA and reported dumping (transferring) approximately 1,574,828 pounds of chemicals into publicly owned wastewater treatment works during 1997, alone. The chemicals include, but are not limited to: chromium, zinc, copper, lead, cyanide and cyanide compounds, nitrate, nitrate compounds, phosphoric acid, nickel, glycol ethers, maganese and maganese compounds, sulfuric acid aerosols, diethanolamine, ammonia, benzene, naphthalene, phenol, quinoline, toluene, xylene (mixed isomers), cresol mixed isomers, sodium nitrate, methyl ethyl ketone, acrylamide, dimethylamine, hydrogen fluoride, antimony compounds, epichlorohydrin, ethylene glycol, methanol, and vinyl acetate. In fact, in 1997 a single company admitted transferring (dumping) 286,000 pound of toluene into the publicly owned wastewater treatment works [POTW]!! Another dumped/transferred 314,740 pounds of hydrogen fluoride into the POTW --the majority of its waste; still another dumped 1,016 pounds of certain glycol ethers. While another reported dumping 43,000 pounds of carcinogenic antimony compounds; an electronics firm dumped 4,300 pounds of certain glycol ethers. And these were what was reported in one year. Often companies report less than is actually dumped. After all, why would they report more? Also, not all companies were required to report. They had to meet certain parameters under the law to report in the first place. But, these are their guesstimates. While, some of these chemicals may be beneficial for growing plants, others are among the active and misnamed inert ingredients in synthetic herbicides and other pesticides, such as cyanide compounds. I noticed a large number of companies dumped cyanide down the drain. However, alike synthetic pesticides, ( ), potentially hazardous chemical fertilizers and other hazards of ''modern'' agriculture, these chemicals may not only be in the sewage sludge which is called biosolids after ''treatment'' (composting?). Plus, being spread on farm land, city parks and home gardens is not the only pathway in which these chemicals get into our environment. Most are released via incineration which includes energy recovery (a.k.a. recycling), by disposal into landfills or deep injection wells. Regardless of the means of disposal, all industrial and consumer wastes may taint fish and other aquatic creatures, endanger the health of humans and other animals through contaminated ground and surface waters, and airborne pollution. I understand that sewage sludge is treated with bactericides, then the liquids are separated from the solids, air and microorganisms ''treat'' the residual sludge while the liquid is released back into waterways after again, treating with chemical bactericides. Previously, before the Clean Water Act's recent passage, sludge was spread on some farm land, dumped into waterways and oceans, land filled or incinerated. Now, ocean dumping is illegal and the law mandates that the EPA give incentives to farmers to take the sludge. The Water Environment Federation along with their allies in the USDA and EPA are labeling this toxic sludge as biosolids to alleviate concern of the ignorant and naive. Sludge is a problem which we all participate in making. But compost toilets could reduce the bodily waste problem and proper composting at high temperatures may reduce the pathogens. But what about the chemical wastes which industries dump down the drain? The latter, I understand, cannot be really treated to make them safe for consumption and they may harm the soil, as well as other life. After all, why don't organic farmers use synthetic chemicals? Is it because man-made chemicals often injure the soil and the life it contains? Therefore, should this problem be spread on organic agriculture which advocates avoiding the use of synthetic chemicals in favor of the precautionary principle? Changing the name of sewage sludge to biosolids is as misleading, as is calling food irradiated with ionizing radiation, cold or electronic pasteurization. It does not alter the toxicity --only the mindset. It keeps the public controlled and ignorant! Thousands of people, including yours truly, wrote to the USDA opposing the use of sewage sludge on organic agriculture. It is disheartening to learn that an organic herb farmer is reported by the Chicago paper to be using sewage sludge on its fields. I strongly believe sewage sludge by any other name is still sewage sludge and spreading it on agriculture is sludge disposal, not nutrient recycling. ~Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 10 19:34:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06436 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA15526 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:59:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA15496 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d08-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.8]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA26855 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:58:56 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: Social and political aspects Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:03:26 +1000 Message-ID: <000201becb28$6a9c2160$083325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000a01beca2b$e1be4460$2b9fc2d1@preferred-user> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1604 Jim Worstell wrote, reflecting on this extensive thread: "Funny how our assumptions control us. We assume sustainability has three dimensions, realize they can't be measured in comparable units, and despair. Marston Bates wrote in 1950, discussing the way folks can argue about the 'boundaries' of predation, symbiosis and parasitism: "Our problem really is with the human mind, which needs to deal with discrete categories, even when these have to be imposed on an essentially continuous series. The trouble comes when we mistake the nature of our categories... Science sometimes achieves rigid definition that can be handled with precise mathematical logic; but often also it must deal with vague and essentially undefinable concepts, where logic becomes a handicap. I think an important part of the scientific method is the ability to work with indefinite and provisional concepts, to accept approximations which can be used until something better is available. To be scientific in this sense, is to be unsure, to be indefinite where knowledge or the nature of the material does not warrant definiteness..." Marston Bates, The Nature of Natural History, Princeton Science Library Edition, 1990, p 140. I think this has application both to how we look at the business of farming and how we undertake the business of discussing. Some of this discussion (which I have tried to read in one dose, having been away from the computer) seems to reflect agendas well away from the core business of sustainable farming, which we ought to hope could be carried out by as many farming persons as possible, either corporate or private, all of whom have dimensions of good and evil, competition and cooperation; and perhaps a third dimension here and there.. Some of the rules and definitions tossed around seem to drift off from a central concern to see that exploitation of the earth, on any scale, by any persons, should result in that part of the earth being no less rich in its ecology, no less exploitable, over time. That principle promptly demands compromise - in at least three dimensions ;-) (e.g. we crave houses with very limited biodiversity inside; we wish to reserve some places in a town or country plan for some 'non-productive' use; we wish to vary time scales for measuring return to comparable ecological value in different places; and, most difficult, we wish to expand some individual (corporate or private) freedoms, and take away others). Maybe it is not in the purity of the idea of sustainability but in the nature of such compromise that the real issues are to be pursued - that is, the issues for definition are in the nature of the principles of compromise. In part that involves defining what is not to be compromised - but there is a need to be honest with ourselves about the cultural and attitudinal baggage we bring to that process. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 10 19:34:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06444 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA15466 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:58:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA15441 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d08-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.8]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA26754; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:57:33 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Gord Hawkes" , Subject: RE: Snails Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:02:05 +1000 Message-ID: <000001becb28$3b34d0c0$083325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199907060210.WAA13231@cyberus.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1605 Gord Hawkes wrote > We have an apple grower here in the great Canadian north who has an infestation of snails on his apple trees. Any thoughts on why and if they need to be controlled? So far they appear to be causing no damage. I have seen no answer to the questions of why and if? I imagine that the snails are eating something and this may be disadvantageous, or are they just trying to get into the shade in the Canadian summer? I wonder whether the best 'how' answer would not be chickens or ducks. That in itself would help to deal with the 'why' question, assuming [a] that there is a better market for eggs and poultry than for snails; and [b] that the integration of poultry into the manuring/fertility/pest management/grass and weed management cycles of the farm is better than reliance on molluscs, even molluscs predating molluscs. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 11 02:14:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA10481 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA10457 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:38:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA10332 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id AAA15183; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:38:16 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma015155; Sun, 11 Jul 99 00:38:06 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:38:06 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE05@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Argall Family'" Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:38:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1606 Dennis, > "Our problem really is with the human mind, which needs to deal > with discrete categories, even when these have to be imposed on > an essentially continuous series. The trouble comes when we > mistake the nature of our categories. That is right on target. People should not take the three-dimensional model of sustainability too seriously. It is just a taxonomy in which to categorize values. It is the values and principles that are important, not the nomenclature. > Some of this discussion (snip) seems to reflect > agendas well away from the core business of sustainable > farming... IMO, discrete values and agendae need to be unpacked and discussed. Some people resist unpacking sustainability because certain values they hold dear might not garner support on their own. > Some of the rules and definitions tossed around seem to drift > off from a central concern to see that exploitation of the > earth.. Yes. This must be the central concern. If this waits until all human-human problems are fixed, wild nature will be a thing of the past. > Maybe it is not in the purity of the idea of sustainability but > in the nature of such compromise that the real issues are to be > pursued - that is, the issues for definition are in the nature > of the principles of compromise. In part that involves defining > what is not to be compromised.. Setting aside visions of revolutionary zeal and purity, it involves activity and compromise in the political and policy-making arena. IMO the central goal should be the insertion of externalities into the market. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 11 04:05:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA11036 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 04:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA04283 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:30:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA04121 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 02:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d64-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.64]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA10257; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:30:15 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Wilson, Dale" , Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:34:47 +1000 Message-ID: <000101becb67$788366a0$403325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE05@vela.phibred.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1607 Dale I was with you until you said: "IMO the central goal should be the insertion of externalities into the market." Can you insert 'em for us? Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 11 08:16:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA12477 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA24354 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 07:35:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.a001.sprintmail.com (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA24301 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 07:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP167.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.103]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA04203 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 04:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37888243.3DC29F1B@sprintmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 07:38:44 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Social and political aspects Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1608 Well, this has sure opened a can of worms. Perhaps clarifying my terms better would help those who like to pick apart statements based on their own interpretation of words, rather than seeing the big picture. (Symptomatic of Reductionist thinking.) Corporate farming- perhaps the words "industrial food production" works better for those who insist that "corporate" has to mean anything incorporated. I define this as an attempt to impose industrial production line thinking on biological systems. Sustainable- This is a concept, not a technique. To be sustainable, a system has to be flexible and have the ability to try new things while retaining some sense of history, tradition... Myself, I prefer the term "Complimentary Agriculture"- observing the processes in nature and attempting to work with them, not trying to force our will on them. A review of the criticism in this thread centers around "economics." These all seem to be based on the premise that economics has Been given the status of a science or religion. Economics is all theory and subject to change under changing circumstances. (I refer you to "trickle down" and all other theories that have fallen by the wayside.) Applying economics as the directing force in agriculture has been one of our big mistakes. We have wrongly thought that, since manufacturing of goods has been so successful at capturing dollars, we should apply the same management to growing food. And there was the statement that farmers want a free ride, or something of that nature. Far from it. If I were interested in making the most money, that is cornering the niche market I have developed locally, I would be arguing for the elimination of small, locally marketing farms. This would get rid of the "competition" and I would be the only local source of high nutrient foods that are untainted with pesticides. I could get rich! But, I really wouldn't be rich. I would be only amassing money and living in a socially, culturally and economically impoverished area- rich in the bank, poor in spirit. said, "We need to create the beauty and the quality first. The quantity will follow." I would like to paraphrase that to, "We need to create high quality of life and high quality food first. The money (economics) will follow." What I mean by this is that if we chase dollars, we ignore all else. If we pursue quality based on ethics/morals/spirituality, then dollars become only a tool for exchange, not the end all and "god" it has become today. I guess this means that "the ends are determined by the means," not, "the end justifies the means." Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 11 09:06:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA12666 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA19110 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:28:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19095 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP043.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.155]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA13461 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 05:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37888E9B.A42A52A6@sprintmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 08:31:23 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Addendum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1609 In my previous post, I left off the name of the person I was quoting. It should read: Allen Chadwick said, "We need to create..." Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 11 14:57:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA16607 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 14:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08033 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 13:55:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from orion.U.Arizona.EDU (spring@hydra.U.Arizona.EDU [128.196.137.174]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07934 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 13:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (spring@localhost) by orion.U.Arizona.EDU (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA02134 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:55:07 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:55:07 -0700 (MST) From: Cari L Spring To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1610 Hi All, Thanks for the ant info. Something seems to be working. Does anybody have any experience with (effective microorganisms) "EM's" developed by Teruo Higa? Also, as a novice organic gardner I am wondering: after this summer's crop (In Tucson AZ) do I let my field's fallow? Do I plant a cover crop? Do I jsut keep composting and continually growing stuff? Thanks for your time and energy to answer these novice questions. ne well y-all. Cari ---------------------- Cari L Spring (520) 621-7343; spring@u.arizona.edu Faculty Development Specialist University Teaching Center, U of A To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 11 22:21:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21362 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA09336 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:37:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA09295 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.211.141.204] (wt-d6-204.wt.net [208.211.141.204]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA16023; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:44:54 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: lamu@pop3.wt.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199907112210.SAA18685@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 20:49:17 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Andy R Subject: Re: EM Cc: Cari L Spring Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1611 Cari, I have used it and it is used by many people in Houston, thanks to Stan Frank. I have taken his classes, made bokashi and etc... How did you find out about it and what do you need to know. Andy >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:55:07 -0700 (MST) >From: Cari L Spring >Subject: [none] > >Hi All, > >Thanks for the ant info. Something seems to be working. > >Does anybody have any experience with (effective microorganisms) "EM's" >developed by Teruo Higa? > >Also, as a novice organic gardner I am wondering: after this summer's crop >(In Tucson AZ) do I let my field's fallow? Do I plant a cover crop? Do I >jsut keep composting and continually growing stuff? > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 03:42:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA24482 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA08611 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:48:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA08498 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d15-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.15]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA27389; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:47:22 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:51:57 +1000 Message-ID: <001101becc33$08ddbae0$0f3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <37888243.3DC29F1B@sprintmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1612 Alex wrote "Well, this has sure opened a can of worms. "Perhaps clarifying my terms better would help those who like to pick apart statements based on their own interpretation of words, rather than seeing the big picture. (Symptomatic of Reductionist thinking.) "Sustainable- This is a concept, not a technique. To be sustainable, a system has to be flexible and have the ability to try new things while retaining some sense of history, tradition... Myself, I prefer the term "Complimentary Agriculture"- observing the processes in nature and attempting to work with them, not trying to force our will on them." Sorry Alex, but I really do think this is putting the worms right back in a very small box on the wrong side of the paddock. Free the worms Alex! The issue is not in the use of names, but in whether everyday issues, on the farm, off the farm, are addressed for their long term sustainability. I have cut and pasted an excerpt from a local TV program Sunday, as story which illustrates the point very well, in terms of the wider web beyond the farm that is involved. We are lost if we confine the issues to a 'complementary' box or if we confine it to the farm; we are accepting parameters that severely limit outcomes. A major economic policy issue is clearly whether profit measurement, taxation assessment and the like can focus on cycles of ecological significance rather than annual or shorter cycles. I presume this is what Dale refers to as 'inserting externalities into the market'. Though I would prefer to think in terms of requiring the market to live on the planet. The nuclear power industry was brought under a degree of control in the United States (we have no such industry in Australia, we burn coal, now also the subject of more control, hopefully) by requiring an acceptable waste disposal scheme to be in place before licensing of plants. How interesting it would be to impose such a concept on, for example, the installation of a flush toilet. Well yes, of course, it has to be done according to the rules now - the question is whether rules impose sustainability criteria. So I don't think it's really a matter of injecting externalities so much as altering the rules that are already there. If you got the food consumer to take responsibility (or indeed the food manufacturer to certify!) that the post-digestive outputs of the product were covered by an acceptable waste disposal scheme... I think that land degradation and declining food production and food nutritional value will impose some thinking in these directions at some future time - and again see the room for individual initiative in the story below, the poor farmer being zonked not by the market but by the externalities too. The issue is how to get the focus turned the right way - we have an overburden of externalities, but not all relevant. Compost the externalities, Dale! The answer is not to say that "sustainable is a concept not a technique" - it has to become a rule. Laughable? How recently would anyone have been laughed at for suggesting that governments would sue tobacco companies for health costs? Undefinable? Definitely not - if economists can find some other perspective than pure competition, some longer cycle of understanding of the way the world is. They give the occasional nod to longer business cycles; they need to slide away from the language of endogeny and exogeny, to a broader focus which does not give primacy of language to narrow and inadequate economic concepts. Economists occupy positions as advisors to princes (of government and business and individuals) as bishops once did. They have power, beyond the secular, a belief in their 'truth'. It is up to them whether they will get us out of the present overconsuming mess, comparable to the indulgence-financed extravagances of the renaissance church, or whether they will stay on the binge and in time be rolled by a disillusioned polity and an exhausted planet. We have to have global perspectives. Australians are as guilty as Americans (well maybe almost as guilty) of having small minded attitudes. Go back and read the preface to Sinclair Lewis's 'Main Street' and see the persistent political problem in your country or mine. [For convenience, I've put a bit of it at the end, below.] Dennis ============== Extract from Australian Broadcasting Corporation's Landline program summary July 11, 1999 from http://abc.net.au/landline/ll110799.htm "Kyneton Kompost Reporter: Steve Letts Up in the granitic central Victorian Hills near Kyneton one of the nations most innovative waste recycling processes has quietly been developed. Fifteen years ago Brian Barrett realised his farm was sick. His pastures were increasingly sparse, fewer calves were being born and his soil was turning to sand. >From tinkering with small scale composting, Mr Barrett now treats the bulk of the food fraction of Melbournes grease traps, as well as industrial food waste from around the state and all sawdust from the regions largest timber mill - all in a process he was originally told was impossible. Along the way Mr Barrett has won numerous fans for his rich, black organic compost. Its been certified by the National Association for Sustainable Agriculture (Australia) and is in demand from both broad acre farms and boutique vineyards as a nutrient rich top dressing and a treatment for acid soils. In effect, the composting operation has closed the circle in the food cycle, bringing back to the farm nutrients that the city would normally bury or flush out to sea. But there is a problem. Local government planning laws deem the process industrial rather than primary production and prevent its commercialisation on Mr Barretts farm. The logic being mountains of compost can be made just as long as its not sold. Its a logic thats now threatening to ruin one of the most original and constructive ways yet developed in dealing with organic waste." ============ Extract from Sinclair Lewis, 'Main Street' 1921 "Main Street is the climax of civilization. That this Ford might stand in front of the Bon Ton Store, Hannibal invaded Rome and Erasmus wrote in Oxford cloisters. What Ole Jensen the grocer says to Ezra Stowbody the banker is the new law for London, Prague, and the unprofitable isles of the sea; whatsoever Ezra does not know and sanction, that thing is heresy, worthless for knowing, and wicked to consider... "Such is our comfortable tradition and sure faith. Would he not betray himself an alien cynic who should otherwise portray Main Street, or distress the citizens by speculating whether there may not be other faiths." (Nowadays of course, Main Street comes to us all on global TV, including the up-minded PBS News Hour. If you say "Thank you for sending us Rupert Murdoch" I will have to reply "Rupert Murdoch thanks you, I'm sure, for the program content.") To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 04:17:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA24894 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA00274 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:06:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA00103 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.62] (ppp-206-170-32-62.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.62]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21956; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:59:24 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Salmonellosis/sprouts--ProMED Cc: mister3d@third-dimension.com, harmony@mwt.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1613 Howdy, all-- Thought the ongoing Sprout Saga might interest some of you. I'm back in the saddle--done been lurkin' since mid-June--and will update y'all soon. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FOODBORNE HAZARD, SPROUTS, FDA ADVISORY - USA ********************************************* A ProMED-mail post Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 22:47:29 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: FDA press release, 9 Jul 1999 The Food and Drug Administration has issued an updated health advisory to make all persons aware of the risks associated with the consumption of raw sprouts (e.g. alfalfa, clover, radish). A previous advisory on this subject was issued August 31, 1998. FDA advises that persons who wish to reduce the risk of foodborne illness should not eat or consume raw sprouts. The advice against consumption is particularly important for persons at high risk of developing serious illness due to foodborne disease (i.e., children, the elderly, and persons with weakened immune systems). Recent outbreaks include: - - May 1999, approximately 30 cases of salmonellosis associated with the consumption of clover sprouts in California. - - March-May, 1999, approximately 70 cases of salmonellosis associated with the consumption of clover sprouts in Colorado. - - January-March 1999, approximately 85 cases of salmonellosis associated with the consumption of alfalfa sprouts in Oregon, Washington, and California. - - July 1998, 8 cases of illness attributed to E. coli O157 infection associated with the consumption of alfalfa/clover sprouts in California and Nevada. - - May 1998, 18 cases of salmonellosis associated with the consumption of alfalfa sprouts in California. - - Late 1997-July 1998, 60 cases of salmonellosis associated with the consumption of an alfalfa/clover sprout mixture in California. FDA has planned immediate preventive measures as follows: - - FDA will issue national guidance to the industry based on a more thorough review of the recommendations made in a 1999 report of the National Advisory Committee on Microbiological Criteria for Foods. This guidance will focus on microbial testing, sanitation, seed quality as well as seed treatment strategies with appropriate performance standards. - - FDA will send investigators to sprout facilities to test water used to grow sprouts (spent irrigation water which is a good measure of microbial contamination) for _Salmonella_ and _E. coli_ O157. FDA will also increase surveillance of sprouting facilities and monitor the extent of industry adoption of enhanced production practices as recommended in the FDA guidance. - -- ProMED-mail [This alert is a long time in coming as outbreaks associated with sprouts have been identified for several years. What is not mentioned is the difficulty in cleaning sprouts, as well as the inability to irradiate the seeds as a means of reducing bacterial contamination. With irradiation the sprouts do not germinate, thereby defeating the purpose. This warning/alert is a necessary first step in reducing the disease burden caused by raw sprouts. - MPP] [I have chosen to post only the Fact Sheet from the FDA website because it presents the essence of the press release. The rest can be viewed at . Cooking of sprouts is also mentioned as a control measure, but that sounds something like eating canned peas. - Mod.ES] Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 05:04:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA25295 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA00323 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:06:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA00126 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:05:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.62] (ppp-206-170-32-62.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.62]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21971; Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:05:11 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Nipah virus/pig vector--ProMED Cc: mister3d@third-dimension.com, klemme@aae.wisc.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1614 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. I must have missed a mess of ProMED postings on this topic while gone in June. But this seems to summarize the issue very well. The issue of etiology is important, as those of you following prion diseases well know. I find pigs of especial interest because of their biological similarities to humans. Rick, if you think this would be of interest to Marty, would you please pass it along? Thanks. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NIPAH VIRUS - MALAYSIA (18) *************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 From: Chan Yow Cheong ProMED-mail Regional Moderator for Asia Source: Daily Express, 9 Jul 1999 [edited] A report by 25 foreign experts confirms that the viral encephalitis which hit the country recently was caused by two viruses, the Japanese Encephalitis (JE) and Nipah. Deputy Director-General of Health (Public Health) Datuk Dr Abdul Aziz Mahmood said the report submitted to the Health Ministry last month rejected claim that the authorities had wrongly identified the viruses responsible. "The experts have acknowledged that the move by the government to cull infected pigs had succeeded in controlling the outbreak," he said at a news conference to announce the findings of the foreign experts, here [Kuala Lumpur] today. Opposition leader Lim Kit Siang had in the Dewan Rakyat [Parliament] recently accused the government of failing to identify the culprit virus when it announced two viruses instead of one for causing the viral encephalitis. He claimed that only one virus was responsible and that was the Nipah virus. Dr Abdul Aziz said the foreign experts headed by zoonotic expert Dr Thomas G. Ksiazek from the Centre of Disease Control, United States, also discovered that dogs, cats and horses in the affected areas were also infected by the viruses. However, he said studies showed that these animals could not spread the viruses to other animals of the same species. The foreign experts, comprising 12 from CDC, five from Japan, three each from Australia and the World Health Organisation (WHO) and two from Germany, also commended the Malaysian government for adopting correct measures in checking the viral encephalitis since it was detected in September last year. Dr Abdul Aziz said the last JE/Nipah infected case was reported on 27 May, involving seven pig farmers in Sungai Buloh, Selangor. Four of the farmers later died, he said. As at May 27, there were 265 JE/Nipah cases detected and 105 of the patients died. - --- [Caveat emptor; if you are prepared to buy this, beware. Until at least very recently, there has not been a shred of evidence reported (no virus isolations, no seroconversions) that any Malaysian encephalitis case within the past months has been caused by Japanese encephalitis virus. Call me a skeptic (the American humorist Will Rogers, said: "There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you.") but I recall the report posted on ProMED-mail in early June [Nipah virus - Malaysia: official report 990606113005]. Below we repost the germane portions of that report. Not a shred of evidence that any 1999 encephalitis cases were caused by Japanese encephalitis virus. Still, the official line from Malaysia is not only that the epidemic was of mixed etiology (Nipah virus as well as Japanese encephalitis virus) but that the 265 cases were caused by "JE/Nipah". If this is not nonsense, I owe a huge apology to an entire country. Let's wait and see. I expect that hard data will be presented at the International Congress of Virology in Sydney next month and at the American Society for Tropical Medicine and Hygiene annual meeting the end of November. I would like to see data on virus isolations and confirmed serodiagnoses, not diagnoses based on tests of single serum samples. If one of the 25 foreign experts would be willing to provide such data, we would be pleased to post it. Meanwhile, it's a bit too early for me to draft that letter of apology. - Mod CHC] BEGINNING OF COPIED REPORT 'Emergency report' by the Director General of the Malaysian Veterinary Services, Dr Mohd Nordin Mohd Nor, to the OIE, published in their weekly DISEASE INFORMATION of 28 May 1999, Vol. 12 - No. 20. Text of a report received on 17 May 1999 from Dr Mohd Nordin Mohd Nor, Director General of Veterinary Services, Ministry of Agriculture, Kuala Lumpur; Report date: 15 May1999. 1. History of human cases The outbreak of Nipah disease in Malaysia, which has caused human fatalities, has been attributed to a viral infection in pigs. The outbreak in 1998/99 has been investigated and traced back to earlier incidences which were provisionally diagnosed as Japanese encephalitis (JE). In 1997, the illness was reported in a number of pig-farm workers, one of whom died. Most of them received treatment at private hospitals. In 1998, more cases of viral encephalitis were reported and two more villages were affected. A special Task Force comprising officers from the medical and veterinary departments was formed. By the end of 1998, ten workers from Tambun, Ulu Piah and Ampang had died from the disease after being in a coma for periods ranging from four days to a few weeks. Among the viral encephalitis cases, only about 15% were confirmed as JE, leaving the remaining 85% undetermined. By mid-December 1998, the disease had spread to Sikamat, about 60 km south of Kuala Lumpur, through movement of infected pigs. Seven of the 20 workers developed the disease and five died in January 1999. By March 1999 the disease had spread to the major pig producing area of Bukit Pelandok in the State of Negeri Sembilan. The Department of Medical Microbiology, University of Malaya, successfully isolated an unknown virus. The virus was sent to the Arbovirus Research Center, Center for Disease Control (CDC) in Fort Collins, Colorado, United States of America. There, the Malaysian and United States scientists worked together to study the characteristics of the virus. On 18 March 1999, the CDC announced that the isolate was of a genus closely related to the Hendra virus, a paramyxovirus first isolated in Brisbane, Australia, in 1994. On 10 April 1999, the isolate was officially called the Nipah virus, named after the village Sungai Nipah in Negeri Sembilan, where the worker from whom the virus was isolated had died. The disease spread to more farms and, from 1 March to 10 May 1999, a total of 224 suspected cases of viral encephalitis occurred in Negeri Sembilan with 80 fatalities. Out of a total of 258 persons suspected of being infected with the Nipah virus, 100 have died. As a measure to control the spread of the new virus, farmers and their families have been instructed to leave their villages and settle temporarily in schools and community halls outside the affected district. Assistance has been sought from experts in the CDC and Australia to help with the diagnosis and control of Nipah disease. 6.2 Serological tests Two laboratories, namely the Veterinary Research Institute (VRI), Ipoh, and the Task Force Laboratory at the Department of Medical Microbiology, University of Malaya, were selected to carry out serological tests on the veterinary and human sera respectively. Samples were tested using the IgG and IgM capture ELISA at the above laboratories and virus neutralisation tests at AAHL, Geelong (Australia). 7. Results of serological surveillance in animals during the outbreak period 7.1 Pigs In a previously infected farm, more than 95% of sows had Nipah virus antibodies. More than 90% of the piglets had antibodies assumed to be maternal antibodies. Antibody prevalence across all ages is currently being studied in an infected farm. END OF COPIED REPORT - -- ProMED-mail [This is the first comprehensive report we have seen and may be the first comprehensive report. Japanese encephalitis is no longer being reported as the etiologic agent of Nipah disease and other steps forward obviously have been taken. The overall mortality rate in humans is 38.8%. Many questions remain (Are pigs persistently infected? Does Nipah virus react with antibodies to paramyxoviruses other than Hendra virus? What is the significance of antibody if "some patients have shown serological reactivity without clinical signs"? and more). Nonetheless, the picture is clearing. - Mod.CHC] Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 06:00:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA25580 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA26468 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:51:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA26287 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dialup77-2-48.swipnet.se (d212-151-239-218.swipnet.se [212.151.239.218]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA15613; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:51:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by dialup77-2-48.swipnet.se with Microsoft Mail id <01BECC54.567240C0@dialup77-2-48.swipnet.se>; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:50:21 +0200 Message-ID: <01BECC54.567240C0@dialup77-2-48.swipnet.se> From: Jacky Foo To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'rkneen@jetstream.net'" Subject: feeding spent grains to livestock Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:13:04 +0200 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1615 Check http://segate.sunet.se/archives/et-w5.html (forum on eco-breweries) and http://segate.sunet.se/archives/et-w5.html (forum on integrated bio-systems) where search option also available to see if you can find more information that you need. From: Rebecca Kneen >We are starting an organic microbrewery, integrated with our farm. We >intend to feed the spent grains (post brewery use) to our livestock, and to >compost what we can't feed. regards jacky foo http://home2.swipnet.se/~-w-25860/jacky To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 06:48:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA25831 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA23583 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:43:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id EAA23488 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id DAA22660; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:43:14 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma022478; Mon, 12 Jul 99 03:42:22 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3W8MXM5N>; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:42:22 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE06@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Argall Family'" Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:42:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1616 Dennis, > I was with you until you said: > > "IMO the central > goal should be the insertion of externalities into the market." > > Can you insert 'em for us? I meant that people should have to pay for the environmental degredation they cause. For example, people should pay to have their trash collected, the more trash, the more you pay. Perhaps N fertilizer should be taxed. Responsible tillage practices can, and have been tied to subsidies. Air pollution credits are traded in a market. Fees for water use should reflect the cost of cleaning the effluent. Etc. etc. Markets are efficient. They should be used to help protect the environment. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 09:03:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA26798 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA13082 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:56:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA13025; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3) id HAA01515; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;3789D91D.F1D2.029D.000] Content-Identifier: Re: Agricultural UA-Content-Id: Re: Agricultural Autoforwarded: FALSE X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 7:38:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 7:38:00 -0400 From: Grace J Gershuny Subject: Re: Agricultural Entrepreneur centers -Reply To: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested), sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <3789D91D.F1D2.029D.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-p5)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1617 I recently came across a brochure for a place called the Vermont Food Venture Center. Don't have any direct knowledge of it, but it sounds like the sort of incubator you're talking about (not dedicated to particular kinds of products though). It's a joint Federal (USDA Rural Development), State & local economic development council project, subtitled "The place to start and expand your food business." A membership fee of $75 entitles you to services such as a half-day food safety & sanitation course, assistance in wholesale ingredient & packaging purchase, and access to a processing room, bakery and kitchen. There is also a business development service & revolving loan fund. It's located in northwestern Vermont. Contact info: Brian Norder, Project Director - 802-849-2000; brian.norder@fairfaxbbs.org. http://homepages.together.net/~edcnv/food Hope this helps, Grace Gershuny USDA National Organic Program Staff To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 09:41:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA27330 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA00988 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:52:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00979 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04469 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-30.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.78]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA04242 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:56:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199907121256.HAA04242@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Subject: The real problem with farming--conventional, sustainable, or organic Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:27:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1618 This latest thread on social and political aspects of agriculture has been interesting. However, I think the real problem out here with agriculture is the fact that very few farms are actually supporting families. I would think that sustainable and organic farms are doing at least as good of a job in this aspect as conventional farms. Any research on this? Unless I am an excellent marketer(I'm not!), I have no choice but to figure out how to make a living within this industrialised agriculture system. Unless I could convince my family that money was not important, I have to make a decent profit. I think the sustainable agriculture movement has made some great strides in forcing us to question why we would even want a place in this current industrialised agriculture. But we will never really change the fact that sustainablity has to include enough profit to keep the farm going and transferred to the next generation. That isn't exactly an easy task in this current ag situation. Should living close to poverty be a necessity to farm? (I guess that is better than filing bankruptcy like a large percentage of the hog farmers in this area already have!!!!) And if we are an extremely low cost producer with very little debt should we really have to direct market? And can we pretty much expect absolutely no help in the midwest on marketing and small farm support? Do you think my land grant read that one? I'm afraid we are down to the last generation of family farms in this country unless something changes drastically and soon. The sustainable and organic community might win a few battles but I'm afraid the war is going to be lost to the industrial giants. Just my 2 cents and rambling, Greg Gunthorp To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 10:19:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA27826 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA03413 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:04:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA03388 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907121304.JAA03388@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.144] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A7CDCF0368; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:04:13 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:02:36 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Social - Political // Economics Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1619 On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 03:42:21 -0500, Wilson, Dale wrote: >Markets are efficient. They should be used to help protect the environment. Market efficiency pre-supposes equal and simultaneous access to information. Please help me understand how you find that to be true in agriculture. Here in Kansas this week at the country elevators oats have dropped from $1.40 to as low as 80 cents. That might be explained by harvest. Soybeans, however, have been quoted as low as $3.58, and the harvest glut is months away. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see corn below a buck at some of the high-basis elevators come harvest time. Meanwhile, all over the eastern half of the state, guys are grabbing native prairie a quarter section (160 acres) or even half section at a time, spraying it with Roundup, and planting Roundup-Ready soybeans. Two more shots with Roundup cleans 'em up pretty good, and they might go 25 bushels per acre. That's about 1.5 tonnes per hectare for those of you in the metric world... Four hundred species per acre reduced to ONE inside of two months, all for 25 bushels of $4.00 beans that nobody even wants. As I see it, these guys are farming for *cash flow* now, and not even for "profit" as traditionally reckoned. That happens in all industries from time to time when people are waiting for prices to go back up, but the trend in agriculture has been down for a long time and shows no sign of changing anytime soon. I have to interpret Roundupping native prairie to plant beans as a sign of growing desperation on the part of the "Big Boys" of the regional farming scene. It's getting grim out here in the Heartland, folks, and the claw marks on the wall are increasingly visible. Personally, I suspect we won't make a lot of progress towards sustainability until the economy as a whole moves beyond its current frenzy of consumption and debt. With over 3/4 of adult Americans now owing more money than they're worth --- and their "worth" anchored in a bloated stock market and over-priced real estate --- we have collectively frittered away 8 years of a strong economy. What we see in the farm economy is only a *symptom* of the same rot. Based on 1075 years of price series (Europe and America), the only way economies move beyond such frenzies of debt is with a wrenching contraction. This has happened three times, with the prices deflating 25-55% in 3 to 7 years ---- (1315-22), (1596-99), and (1816-20). These transitions were very ugly, but in each case the economy emerging from the wreckage was different than that which preceded it. People were forced by circumstances to think in new ways. Conditions are in place for such a contraction in the industrialised world economy, and emerging from the other side we might actually be smart enough to a substantial environmental component in our economic thinking. We'll certainly be badly enough shaken to entertain some new ideas after 3 to 7 years of having our noses vigorously rubbed in the more than ample evidence that what we were doing before didn't work. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 11:34:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29335 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29283 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:25:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29208 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06788 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-39.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.183]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA07749 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:29:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199907121429.JAA07749@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Subject: Fw: Organic Standards for Livestock Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:26:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1620 ---------- > From: Sprinkraft@aol.com > To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com > Subject: Organic Standards for Livestock > Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 8:34 AM > > Greg and Lei: > > Could you post this to SANET for me? I unsubscribed ten days or so ago > because I was geting far too much mail to keep up with it. I read on the > archive that you and others have been discussing some of the things I > mentioned in my article, and wanted to respond. Thanks. I will subscribe > again once the dust settles. > Steve > > > I am glad to see some discussion on organic livestock, and perhaps we can > draw some thoughts together because the NOP Proposed Rule will come out this > fall, and the discussion would be a good preparation. For reference, ake a > look at some of the current organic standards, like IFOAM, CODEX, the AOS, > OCIA, FVO. These are on the web, and the AOS may be a good comparative ( > ota.com) > > First of all, the law and the federal standard provides a framework that is > based on prohibition rather than prescription. As I recently wrote, there are > few concepts that can be considered "philosophical" in the law, but crop > rotations is one of them-and what needs to be uncovered is the science behind > the prescription. > > That science seems to be saying that confinement and little access to nature > will not fit the organic plan. We can rightly infer that one depends on > invasive often synthetic responses to disease because of confinement-and the > alternative is....rotational grazing, exercise, socialization, unpolluted > water, and other holistic concepts. > > Another faint glimmer of hope is the occasional language used in the law that > broadly supports the sound tradition....such as the prohbiting the use of > substances that are "inconsistent with organic farming or handling, and the > purposes of this title." > > Now the title, or the entire law, intends to define organic....but this > statement tends to provide a broader coverage of expectations that are not > elucidated within the statute...and those expectations I feel are more > conservative than liberal. In other words, limit and restrict production > methods that are inconsistent with "the conventional wisdom" ( to borrow from > Galbraith) that is in the eye of the beholder within the system, rather than > accept those outside the system who are looking for loopholes or exceptions > to the common sense approach to creating an organic farm plan. "Consistent > with organic farming" can provide us with the means to reflect on our > tradition. > > You also have to factor in consumer expectation-this is THEIR law, more than > anyone elses. The purposes of the OFPA are > > 1 ) to establish national standards governing the marketing of certain > agricultural products as organically produced products; (2) to assure > consumers that organically produced products meet a consistent standard; and > (3) to facilitate interstate commerce in fresh and processed food that is > organically produced. > > Number 3 can not subvert the intentions of Number 2. Facilitating trade has > often been taken as a mandate to expand a market with less conservative > standards, and that is where one encounters questions like parasiticide use, > confinement, and interpretations on humane treatment. > > Common sense ( and some experience) will tell you when you are looking at an > organic livestock system....and when you are not. Poultry is a fairly vexing > sector, for example. Unless we expect organic poultry production to resemble > something from the 18th century-or a system like Joel Salatin's-birds are > probably going to be kept in houses, not allowed outside, and will have a few > square feet per bird. They will be fed organic feed, but generally the > housing will resemble conventional systems. How can standards provide for > humane treatment, access to nature, and aversion to non-feed inputs? Are > these concepts consistent with organic farming? > > I have seen some pretty neat systems that are variations on that theme-and > even encountered organic farmers that elect to only produce birds in the > summer months in order to make a more pleasant system possible. Organic is > pleasant, isn't it? When it is pleasant, one doesn't encounter manure > management problems, air or water pollution, flock health problems, or > inhumane circumstances. The federal law and most certification standards do > not allow a system that harms the environment. One encounters prohibitions on > spreading manure on frozen ground in standards such as OCIA's, for example. > If you have a feed lot in South Dakota on limited space, I think this means > you have a problem-not just with OCIA but with the OFPA as well. > > These issues are being addressed on a daily basis. Should we expect an > absolute at this point? We are in the middle of the game, not at the end. > Will confined poultry be allowed with beak trimming? Will animal feed lots be > allowed? Will swine be pastured or or penned on concrete? Some of these > things can be answered not by comparing them to conventional corporate > agriculture, but by imposing other requirements, for example, by prohibiting > synthetic medications, demanding a strict non-polluting manure management > program, no synthetic pesticides, no dependence on organic pesticides > either. Most certification organizations place things like rotenone on the " > restricted" list, and also ask the question: " What are you doing to > eliminate your dependence on the use of this material?" > > If you have a feed lot, you have flies. You have a manure problem. You also > have a consumer/social problem. To address factory farming, more requirements > are proposed or have been imposed, from EQIP to state laws prohbiting > corporate ag or county ordinances prohibiting large facilities. These infer a > more pleasant system, and organic is one definition of those systems. Organic > should not resemble the vertically integrated confinement, non-land based, > factory farm model. > > Steve Sprinkel > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 11:37:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA29450 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA28772 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:24:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28641 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990712142419.23616.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:24:19 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: social/political aspects--4th dimension To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1621 SANETEERS, I've been following this interesting thread and have to add my 2 cents. I enjoyed the box metaphor and how John used it to make his point on the need for a wholistic perspective. But in my own mind, I use a different metaphor for sustainable agriculture--a spinning top. This opens up a 4th dimension that involves balance, direction, and momentum. How this relates to what I consider the 4th aspect of sustainability--spirituality--I am not sure. We have spent very little time discussing this part of sustainability. Surely part of sustainability is the notion of something beyond our human, material world. I suspect many of us have a sense of spirituality but why do we so rarely talk about it in these public forums? Just my 2 cents, Kate _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 12:23:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA00538 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21522 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:09:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21476 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.190] (st-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.190]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA22772; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907121509.IAA22772@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:04:16 -0700 Subject: FW: Process Makes Detecting Aflatoxin Levels Easier From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1622 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Process Makes Detecting Aflatoxin Levels Easier Date: Mon, Jul 12, 1999, 7:14 AM STORY LEAD: A Ratio Process Makes It Easier To Detect Aflatoxin Levels ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Sarah Tarshis, (301)504-1611, isst@ars-grin.gov July 12, 1999 ---------- One bad nut can spoil the whole bunch, thanks to aflatoxin, a carcinogen that can contaminate peanuts and other commodities. Federal food safety regulations create a need to find the most efficient aflatoxin detection method possible. Such methods can be time-consuming and expensive. So Thomas B. Whitaker of the Agricultural Research Service has been researching methods of accurately estimating aflatoxin levels in peanut lots to better ensure appropriate handling. He developed a new method of detection that may reduce economic loss for handlers and farmers while also preserving quality. Whitaker's method of detecting aflatoxin in a lot is to measure the aflatoxin levels in the high-risk peanuts. Peanuts that are damaged, loose shelled or small are labeled high- risk. An estimated ratio of aflatoxin in high-risk peanuts to aflatoxin in the lot determines the aflatoxin of the entire lot. Whitaker found that a five-to-one ratio accurately assesses the aflatoxin levels. For example, if a high-risk sample has an aflatoxin contamination level of 100 parts per billion (ppb), the entire truckload will probably average 20 ppb--the Food and Drug Administration's legal limit for food quality safety. The ratio was derived over a wide range of concentration in many lots, according to Whitaker. The current method of detecting aflatoxin in peanuts can cause farmers and handlers to lose profits because of inaccuracy. When a truckload of peanuts is brought from a farm to the buyer, it is sampled and visually examined for moldy kernels that indicate the lot may be contaminated by aflatoxin. If even one moldy kernel is found, the entire truckload is classified as a low-grade status that could result in profit loss. The ratio method might be used to replace or complement the current method of visual analysis. A story on the research is in the July issue of Agricultural Research magazine and on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jul99/pea0799.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Dr. Thomas B. Whitaker, ARS Market Quality and Handling Research Unit, Raleigh, N.C.; phone (919) 515-6731, fax (919) 515-7760, whitaker@eos.ncsu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 14:21:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00372 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA03328 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:25:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03315 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA14043; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000e01becc8a$dc771f20$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "Wilson, Dale" , Subject: Re: Social and political aspects Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:19:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1623 To Dale and Sanet: I wonder to what extent the threat to wild nature comes from sustainable agriculture, if we exclude lawns from our definition of agriculture. I was just reading an article in Smithsonian Magazine (April 1999), where the author states that lawns in this country occupy more land than any other crop, including wheat and corn. As Bill Duesing described last week, many of those lawns get powerful doses of pesticides and fertilizers, potentially polluting the groundwater and running off into surface waters. I suspect that "well-maintained" lawns are one of the most hostile environments for wild nature of all kinds -- probably only asphalt, which also takes up a huge and expanding amount of land area in this country, is more hostile. In Connecticut, the Department of Environmental Protection actually manages several of its wildlife reserves as farmland -- growing grain, cutting hay (on carefully determined schedules for the benefit of wildlife), etc. -- because this habitat is rapidly disappearing in Connecticut and is necessary to the survival of many species of birds and other wildlife. Kim Stoner -----Original Message----- From: Wilson, Dale Snip >> Some of this discussion (snip) seems to reflect >> agendas well away from the core business of sustainable >> farming... > >IMO, discrete values and agendae need to be unpacked and discussed. Some >people resist unpacking sustainability because certain values they hold dear >might not garner support on their own. > >> Some of the rules and definitions tossed around seem to drift >> off from a central concern to see that exploitation of the >> earth.. > >Yes. This must be the central concern. If this waits until all human-human >problems are fixed, wild nature will be a thing of the past. >Snip To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 15:24:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02626 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA03908 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:28:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03904 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15281 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01becc8b$57eb2020$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: Subject: Re: Social and political aspects Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:24:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BECC69.CF822D80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1624 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BECC69.CF822D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops. In my last post, I said: I wonder to what extent the threat to wild nature comes from sustainable agriculture,=20 when I meant that I wonder to what extent the threat to wild nature = comes from agriculture, sustainable or not. Kimberly Stoner CT Agricultural Experiment Station P.O. Box 1106 123 Huntington Street New Haven, CT 06504 203-974-8480 Kimberly.Stoner@po.state.ct.us ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BECC69.CF822D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Oops.  In my last post, I=20 said:
     
    I wonder to what extent the threat to wild nature comes from=20 sustainable
    agriculture,
     
    when I meant that I wonder to what extent the threat = to wild=20 nature comes from agriculture, sustainable or not.
    Kimberly Stoner
    CT Agricultural = Experiment=20 Station
    P.O. Box 1106
    123 Huntington Street
    New Haven, CT=20 06504
    203-974-8480
    Kimberly.Stoner@po.state.c= t.us
    ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BECC69.CF822D80-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 17:53:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA06243 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09781 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:49:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09746 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA15705 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp125.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.125]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4781761746; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801becca7$ea708540$7d9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , "sanet" References: <199907121429.JAA07749@billman.kuntrynet.com> Subject: Re: Organic Standards for Livestock Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:48:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1625 your way of thinking bothers me. I think u can be organic and not do crop rotations I can understand why the law just tells us what not to use because this telling us what to use is wrong. wrong wrong . u can be organic without crop rotations,compost,covercrop etc. this telling us we have to do this and we have to do that is bull. I don't use synthics so I am organic if I rotate or not. quit telling us how to farm. I i feed organic feed and I keep chickens in a pen so the coyotes don't eat them I am still organic. u can tell me what not to use but this telling us organic growers how we must farm is bs. this whole organic tax is bs. some of the organic folks want to make their way law. this is getting nuts. I don't rotate, I have spent years building my soil I don't have to add anything or do anything . If you don't add anything or do any of that other stuff your organic . these folks want to force us to farm their way. it not about organic it is about the only way to do it is their way. o you have to not pin up your chickens you have to do it our way. organic is organic . dam organic Gestapo now they want to tell us how to farm and their way is the right way. sure they know everything bull shit these are the folks that got all this police action going like we are bad guys or something and have to be told how to raise chickens or food. one year the inspector told me I had to cut my weeds or I was not organic . these guys are really getting nuts. no I don't use compost no I don't covercrop ( I may plant a few fava beans ) I can farm by neglect and still be organic. If I don't use non organic stuff I am organic . I don't need a army of police to farm organic . never did for 6000 years never need anyone looking over my shoulder. you want to police someone go police those that use non organic stuff. tax them. this singling out organic growers for organic tax and register like a sex offender and load them up with bs paper work and make them jump through hoops just to be organic is nuts. I have to fill out paper work for three different groups of people and pay them all protection money like the Mafia or something. I have a certifier why do I need a state and fed gov to also taxes me why should I pay so many people to be organic each one u have to kiss up too and bow down too and they don't do shit to help u farm . they are all on a power trip. everyone is saying down with big government yet these nuts gave the word organic to the USDA and took it away from the people. power trippers. now they want to tell me not only what not to use but also what to use. why don't they just come over and farm for me. they all want to tell u what to do yet they don't do shit. paying all these guys supporting all these folks for what? you might like it I don't. if I sell one avocado I have to pay a certifier ,a inspector, the state , the feds, the picking order tax on avocado etc. on and on I have to pay all these folks for selling avocados . and bow down to each one and fill out paper work for each one and pay each one year after year and thats not all also the person I sell to also has to pay all these folks and do paper work for all these folks just to carry my stuff. they get paid more for the avocados than me . they take the money right off the top. who need this bs. then the avocados are taxed in the store once again. don't u guys think this is getting nuts. how many political pencil pusher does it take to see that one small farm is organic. now they want to tell us how we have to do it not just what not to use. bs sorry but bs check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg & Lei Gunthorp To: sanet Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 7:26 AM Subject: Fw: Organic Standards for Livestock > > > ---------- > > From: Sprinkraft@aol.com > > To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com > > Subject: Organic Standards for Livestock > > Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 8:34 AM > > > > Greg and Lei: > > As I recently wrote, there > are > > few concepts that can be considered "philosophical" in the law, but crop > > rotations is one of them-and what needs to be uncovered is the science > behind > > the prescription. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 19:14:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07469 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA21643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:06:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA21618 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id RAA27777; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:06:10 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma026914; Mon, 12 Jul 99 17:05:08 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3W8MX6QS>; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:05:08 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE0D@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Kimberly Stoner'" Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:05:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1626 Kim, > I wonder to what extent the threat to wild nature comes from > [agriculture, sustainable or not] if we exclude lawns from our > definition of agriculture. Well, agriculture is a threat to wild nature in two ways, it uses land directly, domesticating it so to speak, and things that run off agricultural land may damage wild systems elsewhere. > I suspect that "well-maintained" lawns are one of the most > hostile environments for wild nature of all kinds Doesn't that depend on the scale you use to judge wildness? At the level of, say, ants or pillbugs, a lawn is pretty wild. For bacteria, the surface of the cutting edge of your can-opener is an enormous wild ecosystem (until you put it in the dishwasher). > In Connecticut, the Department of Environmental Protection > actually manages several of its wildlife reserves as farmland > -- growing grain, cutting hay (on carefully determined schedules When I mentioned "wild nature" in my post, I had in mind landscape-scale areas that are not managed by people. > for the benefit of wildlife), etc. -- because this habitat > is rapidly disappearing in Connecticut and is necessary > to the survival of many species of birds and other wildlife. Now I realize that whether something is wild or not, is arbitrary. Since humans have come to dominate the earth so pervasively, is there any place that is not, in some sense, managed by humans? Maybe a context can be said to be wild if it is not managed by humans at the scale of that particular context. Thus, if I stay on the trail at Yellowstone, my environment is not wild, but if I walk out of sight of the trail, my environment becomes wild. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 20:43:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA08676 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA05701 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:26:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA05579 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d43-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.43]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA28238; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:26:19 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Wilson, Dale" , Cc: "'Kimberly Stoner'" Subject: RE: Social and political aspects Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:30:59 +1000 Message-ID: <001501beccbe$98b1e340$2b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE0D@vela.phibred.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1627 This (discussion below) is why I focused in an earlier message on the issue as being one of compromise. 'Nature' seeks to return the environment to a climax state, with 'weeds' (plants in the right place, I like to say) as pioneers. Farmers seek to divert that process for exploitation, as do other organisms. Sustainable farmers should be organisms aware of the overall process, and keen to maintain vitality rather than to dead-end the process. Hence we need to define sensible courses in terms of compromise. Grass is without question the most extravagantly worshipped species in the developed world, responsible for a devastating consumption and focus of energy and other resources, including narrow Main Street vanities, also consuming and running-off a disproportionate and carelessly deployed quantity of herbicides and pesticides of prompt, persistent and pervasive influence on the environment. Dennis =========== > I wonder to what extent the threat to wild nature comes from > [agriculture, sustainable or not] if we exclude lawns from our > definition of agriculture. Well, agriculture is a threat to wild nature in two ways, it uses land directly, domesticating it so to speak, and things that run off agricultural land may damage wild systems elsewhere. > I suspect that "well-maintained" lawns are one of the most > hostile environments for wild nature of all kinds Doesn't that depend on the scale you use to judge wildness? At the level of, say, ants or pillbugs, a lawn is pretty wild. For bacteria, the surface of the cutting edge of your can-opener is an enormous wild ecosystem (until you put it in the dishwasher). To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 21:20:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09188 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA27751 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:07:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA27734 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d43-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.43]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00712 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:07:04 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: dioxins Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:11:43 +1000 Message-ID: <001901beccc4$49b4e200$2b3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1628 -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Peat [mailto:raypeat@efn.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 9:50 AM To: Argall Family Subject: dioxins I have clipped the long middle out of the following, as the text is far too long to submit to the list. Info on how to get the text is clearly indicated. Dennis =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #656 . . ---June 24, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . A CAMPAIGN OF REASSURING FALSEHOODS . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . . The Rachel newsletter is now also available in Spanish; . . to learn how to subscribe, send the word AYUDA in an . . E-mail message to info@rachel.org. . ================================================================= A CAMPAIGN OF REASSURING FALSEHOODS Evidently the permanent government in the U.S. now sees dioxin in the food supply as a threat to itself because it has begun a new campaign of reassuring falsehoods, this time in the WALL STREET JOURNAL. We use the term "permanent government" as it was described by Lewis Lapham, editor of HARPER'S MAGAZINE: [TEXT CUT HERE] ...OBRL News is a product of the non-profit Orgone Biophysical Research Lab Greensprings Research and Educational Center PO Box 1148, Ashland, Oregon 97520 USA http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm demeo@mind.net Building upon the discoveries of the late, great natural scientist, Dr. Wilhelm Reich To subscribe to OBRL-News, send the message: subscribe obrl-news to the following address: Majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu To unsubscribe, or change to a new email address, firstly: unsubscribe obrl-news to the same address above. Then re-subscribe with your new address. subscribe obrl-news To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 21:58:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09675 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA14041 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:43:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA14014 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA19900 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-29.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.77]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA30509; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:47:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199907130047.TAA30509@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Sal" , "sanet" Subject: Re: Organic Standards for Livestock Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:45:04 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1629 Sal, I'd like to hear more about this organic farming without crop rotations, compost, covercrops, biodiversity, fresh air for the barn yard animals, management intensive grazing, rare breeds of livestock, heirloom varieties of crops, op corn, etc. It all sounds very contrary to the very nature of the concept of organic to me and I know of no-one in the midwest that has a sustainable system(this is a sustainable ag list, not an organic one) that takes care of economics, environment, and social attributes who doesn't use a quite a few of the afore mentioned list. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range hog farmer ---------- > From: Sal > To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp ; sanet > Subject: Re: Organic Standards for Livestock > Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 3:48 PM > > your way of thinking bothers me. I think u can be organic and not do crop > rotations I can understand why the law just tells us what not to use because > this telling us what to use is wrong. wrong wrong . u can be organic > without crop rotations,compost,covercrop etc. this telling us we have to do > this and we have to do that is bull. I don't use synthics so I am organic > if I rotate or not. quit telling us how to farm. I i feed organic feed > and I keep chickens in a pen so the coyotes don't eat them I am still > organic. u can tell me what not to use but this telling us organic growers > how we must farm is bs. this whole organic tax is bs. some of the organic > folks want to make their way law. this is getting nuts. I don't rotate, I > have spent years building my soil I don't have to add anything or do > anything . If you don't add anything or do any of that other stuff your > organic . these folks want to force us to farm their way. it not about > organic it is about the only way to do it is their way. o you have to not > pin up your chickens you have to do it our way. organic is organic . dam > organic Gestapo now they want to tell us how to farm and their way is the > right way. sure they know everything bull shit these are the folks that got > all this police action going like we are bad guys or something and have to > be told how to raise chickens or food. one year the inspector told me I had > to cut my weeds or I was not organic . these guys are really getting nuts. > no I don't use compost no I don't covercrop ( I may plant a few fava beans ) > I can farm by neglect and still be organic. If I don't use non organic > stuff I am organic . I don't need a army of police to farm organic . never > did for 6000 years never need anyone looking over my shoulder. you want to > police someone go police those that use non organic stuff. tax them. this > singling out organic growers for organic tax and register like a sex > offender and load them up with bs paper work and make them jump through > hoops just to be organic is nuts. I have to fill out paper work for three > different groups of people and pay them all protection money like the Mafia > or something. I have a certifier why do I need a state and fed gov to > also taxes me why should I pay so many people to be organic each one u have > to kiss up too and bow down too and they don't do shit to help u farm . > they are all on a power trip. everyone is saying down with big government > yet these nuts gave the word organic to the USDA and took it away from the > people. power trippers. now they want to tell me not only what not to use > but also what to use. why don't they just come over and farm for me. they > all want to tell u what to do yet they don't do shit. paying all these > guys supporting all these folks for what? you might like it I don't. if I > sell one avocado I have to pay a certifier ,a inspector, the state , the > feds, the picking order tax on avocado etc. on and on I have to pay all > these folks for selling avocados . and bow down to each one and fill out > paper work for each one and pay each one year after year and thats not all > also the person I sell to also has to pay all these folks and do paper work > for all these folks just to carry my stuff. they get paid more for the > avocados than me . they take the money right off the top. who need this bs. > then the avocados are taxed in the store once again. don't u guys think > this is getting nuts. how many political pencil pusher does it take to see > that one small farm is organic. now they want to tell us how we have to do > it not just what not to use. bs > > > sorry but bs > > check out a organic growers web page > http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg & Lei Gunthorp > To: sanet > Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 7:26 AM > Subject: Fw: Organic Standards for Livestock > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Sprinkraft@aol.com > > > To: hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com > > > Subject: Organic Standards for Livestock > > > Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 8:34 AM > > > > > > Greg and Lei: > > > > As I recently wrote, there > > are > > > few concepts that can be considered "philosophical" in the law, but crop > > > rotations is one of them-and what needs to be uncovered is the science > > behind > > > the prescription. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 22:04:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09742 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA25469 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:05:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA25403 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Computer (ip124.ts13.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.86.124]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with SMTP id VAA19622; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907130104.VAA19622@cyberus.ca> X-Sender: logcabinorchard@mail.cyberus.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" From: Gord Hawkes Subject: Re: The real problem with farming--conventional, sustainable, or organic Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1630 Greg. Has this thread not appeared over the last year under a number of different subject lines? We all have our own views and opinions and I respect every last one! However, the new sustainable/organic farmer is more than a steward of the land - he/she is a revolutionary with revolutionary approaches to all facets of farming. Contemporary economics has little to no meaning when applied to sustainable agriculture other than at the most basic levels i.e. "supply and demand". At one time demand had to be cultivated and nurtured and brought along in a gentle fashion using almost maternal techniques. But demand for organic healthful produce has steadily increased to the point that it is overtaking supply. What is more, the growing concern over estrogen inducing growth hormones and the overuse of organophospate insecticides is raising awareness in the aging baby boomers - they want health giving foods and are establishing ralationships with growers directly. Faith Popcorn in the Popcorn Report and David Foot in Boom, Bust & Echo have both identified that small farms producing healthful quality produce and products will pave the road in meeting the growing demands of the aging boomers - quality will win out! Greg you indicate that you believe that very few farms are supporting families. I believe some are and in many cases off farm income is required. This is based on choice in some circumstances and necessity in others. I work off the farm but my wife works on the farm allowing her to raise our children and manage the day-to-day affairs of the farm. The farm allows us to cultivate in our children the graces of nature, respect, interaction with the public - it also provides them with a sense of and appreciation for hard work and a source of income. Most urbanite family units have both parents working outside the home, their children are raised by caregivers, they have little time and ability to appreciate the simple pleasures of life and in most cases both adult members of the family unit work as a result of necessity. Who is nearer the poverty line? If we chose to develop value added product lines to our farm operation and endeavoured to market our products with a bit more effort I am convinced that our farm operation could largely support our family. We must realize that gone are the days of sow, grow, harvest and sell. Marketing now plays a major part in the small sustainable farm operation - this is reality! New Zealand went through a turbulent period with lamb production a number of years ago maybe not as severe as with hogs in N.A. but they were able to turn the corner with marketing zeal and the use of other creative means. Please don't get me wrong - I have not walked a mile in your mocassins so I am entirely unaware of your situation but I believe in the adage that when a window appears to close ever so quietly a door is opening. Best regards, Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, On Canada demand.been overtaken by demand as a result of nand motherly fashionAt 09:27 PM 7/11/99 -0500, you wrote: > This latest thread on social and political aspects of agriculture has >been interesting. However, I think the real problem out here with >agriculture is the fact that very few farms are actually supporting >families. I would think that sustainable and organic farms are doing at >least as good of a job in this aspect as conventional farms. Any research >on this? Unless I am an excellent marketer(I'm not!), I have no choice >but to figure out how to make a living within this industrialised >agriculture system. Unless I could convince my family that money was not >important, I have to make a decent profit. > I think the sustainable agriculture movement has made some great strides >in forcing us to question why we would even want a place in this current >industrialised agriculture. But we will never really change the fact that >sustainablity has to include enough profit to keep the farm going and >transferred to the next generation. That isn't exactly an easy task in >this current ag situation. Should living close to poverty be a necessity >to farm? (I guess that is better than filing bankruptcy like a large >percentage of the hog farmers in this area already have!!!!) And if we are >an extremely low cost producer with very little debt should we really have >to direct market? And can we pretty much expect absolutely no help in the >midwest on marketing and small farm support? Do you think my land grant >read that one? > I'm afraid we are down to the last generation of family farms in this >country unless something changes drastically and soon. The sustainable and >organic community might win a few battles but I'm afraid the war is going >to be lost to the industrial giants. >Just my 2 cents and rambling, >Greg Gunthorp > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 22:06:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09769 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA25176 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:04:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA25135 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Computer (ip124.ts13.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.86.124]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with SMTP id VAA18826; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907130103.VAA18826@cyberus.ca> X-Sender: logcabinorchard@mail.cyberus.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" From: Gord Hawkes Subject: Re: The real problem with farming--conventional, sustainable, or organic Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1631 Greg. Has this thread not appeared over the last year under a number of different subject lines? We all have our own views and opinions and I respect every last one! However, the new sustainable/organic farmer is more than a steward of the land - he/she is a revolutionary with revolutionary approaches to all facets of farming. Contemporary economics has little to no meaning when applied to sustainable agriculture other than at the most basic levels i.e. "supply and demand". At one time demand had to be cultivated and nurtured and brought along in a gentle fashion using almost maternal techniques. But demand for organic healthful produce has steadily increased to the point that it is overtaking supply. What is more, the growing concern over estrogen inducing growth hormones and the overuse of organophospate insecticides is raising awareness in the aging baby boomers - they want health giving foods and are establishing ralationships with growers directly. Faith Popcorn in the Popcorn Report and David Foot in Boom, Bust & Echo have both identified that small farms producing healthful quality produce and products will pave the road in meeting the growing demands of the aging boomers - quality will win out! Greg you indicate that you believe that very few farms are supporting families. I believe some are and in many cases off farm income is required. This is based on choice in some circumstances and necessity in others. I work off the farm but my wife works on the farm allowing her to raise our children and manage the day-to-day affairs of the farm. The farm allows us to cultivate in our children the graces of nature, respect, interaction with the public - it also provides them with a sense of and appreciation for hard work and a source of income. Most urbanite family units have both parents working outside the home, their children are raised by caregivers, they have little time and ability to appreciate the simple pleasures of life and in most cases both adult members of the family unit work as a result of necessity. Who is nearer the poverty line? If we chose to develop value added product lines to our farm operation and endeavoured to market our products with a bit more effort I am convinced that our farm operation could largely support our family. We must realize that gone are the days of sow, grow, harvest and sell. Marketing now plays a major part in the small sustainable farm operation - this is reality! New Zealand went through a turbulent period with lamb production a number of years ago maybe not as severe as with hogs in N.A. but they were able to turn the corner with marketing zeal and the use of other creative means. Please don't get me wrong - I have not walked a mile in your mocassins so I am entirely unaware of your situation but I believe in the adage that when a window appears to close ever so quietly a door is opening. Best regards, Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, On Canada demand.been overtaken by demand as a result of nand motherly fashionAt 09:27 PM 7/11/99 -0500, you wrote: > This latest thread on social and political aspects of agriculture has >been interesting. However, I think the real problem out here with >agriculture is the fact that very few farms are actually supporting >families. I would think that sustainable and organic farms are doing at >least as good of a job in this aspect as conventional farms. Any research >on this? Unless I am an excellent marketer(I'm not!), I have no choice >but to figure out how to make a living within this industrialised >agriculture system. Unless I could convince my family that money was not >important, I have to make a decent profit. > I think the sustainable agriculture movement has made some great strides >in forcing us to question why we would even want a place in this current >industrialised agriculture. But we will never really change the fact that >sustainablity has to include enough profit to keep the farm going and >transferred to the next generation. That isn't exactly an easy task in >this current ag situation. Should living close to poverty be a necessity >to farm? (I guess that is better than filing bankruptcy like a large >percentage of the hog farmers in this area already have!!!!) And if we are >an extremely low cost producer with very little debt should we really have >to direct market? And can we pretty much expect absolutely no help in the >midwest on marketing and small farm support? Do you think my land grant >read that one? > I'm afraid we are down to the last generation of family farms in this >country unless something changes drastically and soon. The sustainable and >organic community might win a few battles but I'm afraid the war is going >to be lost to the industrial giants. >Just my 2 cents and rambling, >Greg Gunthorp > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 12 22:21:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA09939 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:21:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA04169 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:20:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA04153 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from computer (ip48.ts11.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.86.48]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with SMTP id VAA03249 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:22:26 -0400 Message-ID: <01BECCAC.A35A5500.logcabinorchard@cyberus.ca> From: Gord Hawkes To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:22:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1632 Greg. Has this thread not appeared over the last year under a number of different subject lines? We all have our own views and opinions and I respect every last one! However, the new sustainable/organic farmer is more than a steward of the land - he/she is a revolutionary with revolutionary approaches to all facets of farming. Contemporary economics has little to no meaning when applied to sustainable agriculture other than at the most basic levels i.e. "supply and demand". At one time demand had to be cultivated and nurtured and brought along in a gentle fashion using almost maternal techniques. But demand for organic healthful produce has steadily increased to the point that it is overtaking supply. What is more, the growing concern over estrogen inducing growth hormones and the overuse of organophospate insecticides is raising awareness in the aging baby boomers - they want health giving foods and are establishing ralationships with growers directly. Faith Popcorn in the Popcorn Report and David Foot in Boom, Bust & Echo have both identified that small farms producing healthful quality produce and products will pave the road in meeting the growing demands of the aging boomers - quality will win out! Greg you indicate that you believe that very few farms are supporting families. I believe some are and in many cases off farm income is required. This is based on choice in some circumstances and necessity in others. I work off the farm but my wife works on the farm allowing her to raise our children and manage the day-to-day affairs of the farm. The farm allows us to cultivate in our children the graces of nature, respect, interaction with the public - it also provides them with a sense of and appreciation for hard work and a source of income. Most urbanite family units have both parents working outside the home, their children are raised by caregivers, they have little time and ability to appreciate the simple pleasures of life and in most cases both adult members of the family unit work as a result of necessity. Who is nearer the poverty line? If we chose to develop value added product lines to our farm operation and endeavoured to market our products with a bit more effort I am convinced that our farm operation could largely support our family. We must realize that gone are the days of sow, grow, harvest and sell. Marketing now plays a major part in the small sustainable farm operation - this is reality! New Zealand went through a turbulent period with lamb production a number of years ago maybe not as severe as with hogs in N.A. but they were able to turn the corner with marketing zeal and the use of other creative means. Please don't get me wrong - I have not walked a mile in your mocassins so I am entirely unaware of your situation but I believe in the adage that when a window appears to close ever so quietly a door is opening. Best regards, Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, On Canada demand.been overtaken by demand as a result of nand motherly fashionAt 09:27 PM 7/11/99 -0500, you wrote: > This latest thread on social and political aspects of agriculture has >been interesting. However, I think the real problem out here with >agriculture is the fact that very few farms are actually supporting >families. I would think that sustainable and organic farms are doing at >least as good of a job in this aspect as conventional farms. Any research >on this? Unless I am an excellent marketer(I'm not!), I have no choice >but to figure out how to make a living within this industrialised >agriculture system. Unless I could convince my family that money was not >important, I have to make a decent profit. > I think the sustainable agriculture movement has made some great strides >in forcing us to question why we would even want a place in this current >industrialised agriculture. But we will never really change the fact that >sustainablity has to include enough profit to keep the farm going and >transferred to the next generation. That isn't exactly an easy task in >this current ag situation. Should living close to poverty be a necessity >to farm? (I guess that is better than filing bankruptcy like a large >percentage of the hog farmers in this area already have!!!!) And if we are >an extremely low cost producer with very little debt should we really have >to direct market? And can we pretty much expect absolutely no help in the >midwest on marketing and small farm support? Do you think my land grant >read that one? > I'm afraid we are down to the last generation of family farms in this >country unless something changes drastically and soon. The sustainable and >organic community might win a few battles but I'm afraid the war is going >to be lost to the industrial giants. >Just my 2 cents and rambling, >Greg Gunthorp > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 00:12:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11847 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA06736 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:10:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA06668 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by mail.crl.com (8.8.8/) via SMTP id UAA06603 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:10:01 -0700 (PDT) env-from (toma@crl.com) Received: by crl.crl.com id AA28443 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu); Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:55:28 -0700 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:55:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Armstrong To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Social and political aspects In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE0D@vela.phibred.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1633 On Mon, 12 Jul 1999, Wilson, Dale wrote: > > Now I realize that whether something is wild or not, is arbitrary. Since > humans have come to dominate the earth so pervasively, is there any place > that is not, in some sense, managed by humans? Maybe a context can be said > to be wild if it is not managed by humans at the scale of that particular > context. Thus, if I stay on the trail at Yellowstone, my environment is not > wild, but if I walk out of sight of the trail, my environment becomes wild. Most land, if left alone and not meddled with by man for a season, will by spring become wild. Tom Armstrong toma@crl.com Sequera Ranch s.1892 San Gregorio, CA Barnyard Technology--- Ideas for tomorrow -> from yesterday's scrap. 4th -> 5(+6)th gen. on family farm. Can Ag Sustain? A ghost town stays the same: http://www.crl.com/~toma/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 02:14:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA12987 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:14:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA10573 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:12:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA10433 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 01:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.57]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990713051202.CNUD4954@worldnet.att.net>; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 05:12:02 +0000 Message-ID: <378ACA70.71CF0072@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:11:13 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gord Hawkes , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: The real problem with farming--conventional, sustainable, or organic References: <199907130103.VAA18826@cyberus.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1634 Gord Hawkes wrote: <> Is that why my husband and I were asked (as tourists going through customs into New Zealand) if we were animal rights advocates? When I asked why. I was told that animal rights activists are not welcomed in New Zealand. ~Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 03:47:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA13628 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 03:47:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA00774 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:47:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA00769 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:47:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA24618 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA17321; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-27.nidlink.com [216.18.141.34]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA17770; Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907130647.XAA17770@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:55:49 -0700 To: "Biotech Activists" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: RR Soybean Yield Drag Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1635 A just-released analysis of the magnitude of the RR soybean yield drag and some of its consequences is being released Tuesday, July 13th. It is accessible on Ag BioTech InfoNet at The report is based on a review of 1998 soybean yield trials at 8 land grants. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 08:14:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15490 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA26052 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:08:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA26001 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:08:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907131108.HAA26001@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.185] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE0D17E20242; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 06:07:57 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:06:01 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: (null) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1636 On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:22:09 -0400, Gord Hawkes wrote: >respect every last one! However, the new sustainable/organic farmer is >more than a steward of the land - he/she is a revolutionary with >revolutionary approaches to all facets of farming. If their approaches to farming are in fact "revolutionary," it hasn't filtred down to their own way of living. More than half the farmers I inspect for organic certification chew tobacco and don't have a single item of organic food in their house. Wonder Bread is a common sight as we fill out paper work around the kitchen table. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 11:51:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19198 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:51:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA28263 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:54:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28252 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:54:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 2350 ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:55:46 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 1612; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:55:46 -0400 Message-Id: <13JUL99.11803575.0023.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:55:45 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: , Subject: Position at McGill U. X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1637 Below is an announcement for a position in the Dept. of Plant Science at McGill University. Please bring this to the attention of anyone you think might be interested. Thanks, John Henning ==================================== McGill University, Montreal Canada Plant Science: Agriculture and the Environment - Assistant Professor McGill University's Faculty of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences (Department of Plant Science) invites applications for a tenure-track position at the Assistant Professor level, effective January 1, 2000. The successful candidate will be expected to conduct research and teach in the area of agriculture and the environment (e.g., agroecology, pasture/forage management and utilization, sustainable cropping systems/modeling, marginal land use) and to participate in the McGill School of Environment. Candidates must have a Ph.D. in a relevant field, excellent academic credentials, an ability to teach effectively at the undergraduate and graduate levels, and an ability to develop a strong independent research program. Excellent research facilities are available on campus, including well-equipped laboratories, state-of-the-art greenhouses, controlled-environment and plant quarantine facilities, research land (agronomy and horticulture) and modern facilities for large-animal research. Current areas of research strength in the Department include physiology and production of horticultural and agronomic crops, plant protection with an emphasis on biological control, plant breeding and genetics, applied statistics, and plant systematics. Applicants should send curriculum vitae and a statement of their teaching and research interests, and arrange for three letters of reference to be sent to: Dr. Diane Mather, Chair, Search Committee, Department of Plant Science, McGill University, Macdonald Campus, 21,111 Lakes re Road, Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC, Canada H9X 3V9 (email: infoplsci@agradm.lan.mcgill.ca; internet: www.agrenv.mcgill.ca/plant/plantsci.htm). The closing date for applications is October 1, 1999. In accordance with Canadian immigration requirements, priority will be given to Canadian citizens and permanent residents of Canada. However, all qualified applicants are encouraged to apply. McGill University is committed to equity in employment. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 12:17:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA19951 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA19796 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:34:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19785 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA05743 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA15889; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:35:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:37:32 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: California Releases 1997 Pesticide Use Data Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1638 Below is a press release from the Calif. Dept. of Pesticide Regulation. For further information call the DPR Environmental Monitoring and Pest Management Branch at 916/324-4100 or check our Web site at (The 1996 pesticide use summaries, released in May, are also available on the Web site.) Media contacts: Veda Federighi (916) 445-3974 Glenn Brank (916) 445-3970 **************************************** Kathy Brunetti, Agriculture Program Supervisor California Department of Pesticide Regulation **************************************** July 13, 1999 (99-17) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE SACRAMENTO -- Cal/EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation has released 1997 pesticide use statistics that show a 3.5 percent increase in pounds applied from 1996, and a slight decrease from 1995. Reported pesticide use in California totaled 204,779,717 pounds in 1997, compared to 197,828,481 pounds in 1996 and 205,133,950 pounds in 1995. Reported use includes production agriculture and postharvest fumigation of crops, structural pest control, landscape maintenance, and other uses. Exempt from reporting requirements and therefore not included in these totals are home and garden use of pesticides, and most industrial and institutional uses. Summaries of pesticide use in 1997 -- categorized by chemical and crop or site -- are available on DPR's Web site . (The 1996 pesticide use summaries, released in May, are also available on the Web site.) And DPR has supplemented the use data with a new study published online: Pesticide Use Analysis and Trends from 1991 to 1996. The study examines major crops, pest problems, and high-use chemicals. It also analyzes trends in pesticides where use is highest as measured in pounds, number of applications, and acres treated. "We need to reduce the use of the high-hazard pesticides, and this kind of analysis will help us understand what factors drive their use," said DPR Director Paul E. Helliker. "We can also examine the use of reduced-risk alternatives, and the crops, regions and situations where they are used most effectively." The analysis determined that 31 pesticides account for 85 percent of pounds used, 52 percent of all applications, and 50 percent of the acres treated in 1996. The same pesticides also accounted for most of the increased use from 1991 to 1996; only four pesticides accounted for 68 percent of all pounds applied. The study underscores the fact that one year of data does not signify a trend. Pesticide use varies from year to year, depending upon pest problems, weather, crops, and other factors discussed in DPR's analysis. Helliker noted that pounds applied is only one of several measures of pesticide use. "DPR's goal is to encourage the use of reduced-risk pest management tools -- including chemicals -- which have the least impact on the environment," he said. "Some reduced-risk chemicals are used at higher rates, so pounds applied may not provide an accurate measure of our progress." DPR compiles yearly pesticide use reports from the most extensive database of its kind in the nation. "The Department deferred release of the 1996 and 1997 pesticide use reports while developing software programs to provide more accurate data to the public," said Helliker. "We expect to bring the schedule of our annual pesticide use reports up to date with the release of the 1998 data in August." Some key facts from the 1997 pesticide use reports: *Production agriculture accounted for 189,796,122 pounds applied (with an additional 1,608,996 pounds used for postharvest commodity treatment) compared to 182,375,369 pounds (plus 1,847,859 postharvest) in 1996 and 187,577,922 pounds (plus 3,770,169 postharvest) in 1995. * About one-third of the total pounds applied in 1997 involved sulfur. A natural fungicide favored by organic and conventional growers alike, sulfur was also the most-used pesticide from 1991 to 1996. *The top five crops for pounds of pesticide used were wine grapes (27.1 million pounds); table and raisin grapes (26.9 million pounds); almonds (14.5 million pounds); cotton (13.4 million pounds); and oranges (11.5 million pounds). Reported pesticide applications make up about 30 percent of the pesticides sold in the state each year. In 1997, there were 653.9 million pounds of pesticide active ingredients sold in California, compared to 699.6 million pounds in 1996. These sales figures include not only chemicals whose use must be reported, but also pesticides not subject to reporting requirements. This includes pesticides used in homes and gardens and in industrial and institutional settings, such as disinfectants and other antimicrobial products. Among the latter is chlorine used for municipal water treatment. Chlorine products typically account for more than a third of the pesticide active ingredients sold in California. Approximately 10,500 branded products that contained about 800 different active ingredients were registered for sale in California in 1997. Summaries of the 1997 pesticide use data are available free online or for a nominal charge on hard copy or diskette. Two summary versions of the data (one indexed by pesticides, the other by crops) include number of applications, acreage or units treated, and pounds of pesticide used. The 300-page summaries may be ordered in hard copy ($10 each) or on diskette ($2.50). To order, send payment to: Cashier, California Department of Pesticide Regulation, 830 K Street, Sacramento 95814-3510, U. S. A. . A complete data set of the 2.5 million-plus individual 1997 pesticide use reports is also available on CD ROM at a nominal cost. For information about the CD-ROM, call the DPR Environmental Monitoring and Pest Management Branch at 916/324-4100. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 13:44:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21699 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA24561 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:38:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA24548 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.27] (gl-ppp07.hevanet.com [204.119.60.27]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12646; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907131638.JAA12646@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:30:14 -0700 Subject: FW: New Mosquito Trap in Time for Summer From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Marc Hayes , SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1639 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Mosquito Trap in Time for Summer Date: Tue, Jul 13, 1999, 6:44 AM STORY LEAD: New Mosquito Trap in Time for Summer ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov July 13, 1999 ---------- Mosquitoes are in for trouble this summer, thanks to a new trap that effectively attracts and kills mosquitoes and biting flies. The trap was co-developed under a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement between Agricultural Research Service and BioSensory, Inc., of Willimantic, Conn. The trap, registered under the trade name Dragonfly, was named for the insect that is a mosquito predator. The trap lures mosquitoes with a blend of carbon dioxide, heat and octenol, the same chemical cues that attract mosquitoes and other biting insects in nature. Mosquitoes find their human and animal blood meals first by sensing carbon dioxide in breath. Mosquitoes can sense carbon dioxide up to 100 feet away. They also can find their prey using heat sensors on their antennae. The trap mimics the human or animal blood system, which helps lure mosquitoes to the trap. The difference is that when mosquitoes hone in on the target and stop to dine, they are killed with an electronic pulse and fall into a removable tray. That's a big advantage over traditional electrical bug-zapping type traps that splatter the insect everywhere into tiny bits. Entomologist Daniel L. Kline, with ARS' Mosquito and Fly Research Unit, part of the Center for Medical, Agricultural and Veterinary Entomology in Gainesville, Fla., conducted field studies showing that the trap was effective in capturing mosquitoes. The attractants are registered with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for controlling mosquitoes and other biting insects. ARS and BioSensory have a joint patent on the attractants used in the trap, with one patent pending. The trap should be commercially available this summer from BioSensory. Questions regarding the availability and costs should be directed to the company's marketing vice president, William A. Gregoricus. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Daniel L. Kline, ARS Center for Medical, Agricultural and Veterinary Entomology, Gainesville, Fla., phone (352) 374-5933, fax (352) 374-5922, dkline@gainesville.usda.ufl.edu. William A. Gregoricus, BioSensory, Inc., Willimantic, Conn., phone (860) 423-3009, fax (860) 423-3028, biosensory.corp@snet.net, www.biosensory.com. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 14:18:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22249 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA25511 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.mntm.org (ns.mntm.org [209.18.254.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA25500 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rrc2.rrcnet.org (rrc2.rrcnet.org [209.18.245.2]) by ns.mntm.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA28019 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:33:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from anp35.rrcnet.org by rrc2.rrcnet.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/11Jul96-0511PM) id AA08969; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:32:12 -0500 Message-Id: <9907131732.AA08969@rrc2.rrcnet.org> From: "Phil Batalden" To: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:28:14 -0500 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1640 Can anyone help with with my vegetable garden vine problem. My squash and pumpkin have gotten some type of worm or bore in the vine and as a result my vines are dying. One source told me to cut open the vine; which I did; and found a worm; to put sevin on them. As I am in transition to become a certified organic producer I cannot use this product. Does anyone know how I can control this pest before and after it gets into the vine? Thanks, Deb To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 15:01:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA23014 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA18350 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:13:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18346 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA08808 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA15606; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-23.nidlink.com [216.18.141.30]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA08030; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907131813.LAA08030@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:21:57 -0700 To: "Biotech Activists" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Sec. Speech on Biotech Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1641 I just finished hearing Glickman's Nat. Press Club speech on biotech on CSPAN. Very strange, given that the USDA had been billing it as a "major policy address." There was no "news" in it. It focused on arms length regulation (not labeling) as key to consumer confidence, and on trade issues. I think the purpose of the speech was to get "back on message" and basically repudiate the Purdue speech. He spoke some about farmer fairness issues, choice of technology, etc, and he outlined dimensions of what "corporate citizenship" demands of the biotech industry, but nothing was really new or indicative of any change. In the end it was very clear that he had two things to say of note -- TRADE matters and that's where they will continue to focus; and second, labeling is complex, must be carefully considered, have to avoid confusing the public, etc. The Sec. made a few serious mistakes in the Q+A. The worst was in a response to a question that asked something like "Should the USDA be promoting hormone feed beef to consumers, is that really a good idea?" Glickman started with the "...independent reviews...sound science says its fine...but what I really believe is [U.S.] consumers have a choice...they can choose to buy hormone treated beef or not...we need to give people a choice...." Well, given that the Sec. did not support labelling, and that U.S. beef is clearly not labeled re hormone use, the Sec. will only be able to explain that the choice to "buy organic." If anyone else heard any news in the speech, please alert us to it. The text is now up on the USDA website under news releases. We will post it along with some comments on Ag BioTech InfoNet within the hour. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 17:42:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03486 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA21258 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:56:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kirkwood.hoosier.net (IDENT:root@kirkwood.hoosier.net [206.106.64.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21117 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (simmonsm@localhost) by kirkwood.hoosier.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17750; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:41:04 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:41:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. H. Michael Simmons" X-Sender: simmonsm@kirkwood.hoosier.net To: Phil Batalden cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <9907131732.AA08969@rrc2.rrcnet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1642 Deb, The squash vine borer, Melittia cucurbitae (Harris), can be controlled in a number of organic ways. Crop rotation is very important as the borers tend not to travel far and typically become a problem for squash plantations that have occupied the same space for a number of years. Aluminum foil wrapped around the stems from just below ground level to about six inches will discourage the borers. I have saved some vines by surgically removing the larvae and then mounding earth over the damaged stems. Michael City of Bloomington Parks and Recreation Department Community Garden Project Bloomington, IN On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Phil Batalden wrote: > Can anyone help with with my vegetable garden vine problem. > My squash and pumpkin have gotten some type of worm or bore in the vine and > as a result my vines are dying. > One source told me to cut open the vine; which I did; and found a worm; to > put sevin on them. > As I am in transition to become a certified organic producer I cannot use > this product. Does anyone know how I can control this pest before and after > it gets into the vine? > Thanks, > Deb > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 18:52:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA04995 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01444 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:05:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01376 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ztm51-81.Zoetermeer.NL.net by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via ztm51-81.Zoetermeer.NL.net [195.108.245.246] with SMTP for id AAA26186 (8.8.8/1.18); Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:05:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199907132205.AAA26186@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> From: "Frits v/d Laan" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:57:08 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Pesticides in Our Parks Reply-to: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net In-reply-to: <199907091453.KAA13620@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1643 > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:53:02 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Pesticides in Our Parks > > Living on the Earth, July 9, 1999: Pesticides in Our Parks > > Bridgeport's Beardsley Park // >>////contained a 22 percent nitrogen > fertilizer mixed with a broadleaf weed killer called Trimec(tm). > > I questioned the workmen about the wisdom of applying soluble nitrogen, > a serious environmental pollutant, especially in Long Island Sound. Allthough there still are places around (intensive agriculture towns etc) that still use pesticides in public places lots of cities now use pesticidefree ways to keep the parks and other green places. I live in such a city and it is nice to know that you can eat berries, collect seeds or plants from the cityparks and gardens and eat them without any risk for it is known that they are guarantied pesticidefree. I often am suprised about the low standards used in the USA concerning the use of pesticides compared with nordern europe. Frits v.d Laan Netherlands To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 18:55:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05037 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA29803 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:01:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA29771 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.146.28] (dialup-0540.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.146.28]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA58685 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:00:59 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001a01becc8b$57eb2020$1568f6cd@kim> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:22:30 +0100 To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: Social and political aspects Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1644 > Oops. In my last post, I said: I wonder to what extent the threat >to wild nature comes from sustainable >agriculture, when I meant that I wonder to what extent the threat to >wild nature comes from agriculture, sustainable or not. Kimberly Stoner Depends on the agriculture. At the weekend I visited coastal meadows locally which are normally covered with wild orchids this time of year. Because of access problems and the very poor land quality (mostly rocks) combined with low cattle prices and feed shortages last winter they weren't grazed this year and have been completely taken over by bracken. Another year without cattle will see it move across the fine turf at the sea edge with is ablaze with wild flowers from spring to autumn kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 19:42:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06032 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA09456 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:08:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA09432 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990713230757.DRMY17489.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:07:57 -0700 Message-ID: <378BC812.2C6CC403@home.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:13:22 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: vine killers References: <199907132210.SAA06377@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1645 beneficial nematodes will work if injected into the affected vine, I think Hetero habitiditis(check spelling)also to lesser extent Bt "Kurstaki" I believe..check w/ an insectary to confirm. billl evans > Can anyone help with with my vegetable garden vine problem. > My squash and pumpkin have gotten some type of worm or bore in the vine and > as a result my vines are dying. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 19:43:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06054 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA11704 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:12:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11654 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.229]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990713231151.ROJL4954@worldnet.att.net>; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:11:51 +0000 Message-ID: <378BC78D.C8C39A87@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:11:09 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "la-envirotel@igc.org" , Health and Environment Resource Center , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Who is ACSH? & Why are they discrediting claims of certain synethetic chemicals endangering the endocrine systems of human? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1646 This was posted to the Endocrine Disrupters list serve today by David M. King, Deputy Director, Communications National Environmental Trust . I thought you might be interested, in case you've read that scientists at the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH) have found no convincing evidence that certain synthetic chemicals in the environment endanger human health by disrupting the human endocrine system. Re-arrange the letters, just as ASCH has re-arranged findings in published studies, and you find ''CASH'' funded by vested interests. ~Bunny Snow TODAY'S ACSH EMAIL: ````````````````````````````````````````````````` Welcome to the latest "Update" from the American Council on Science and Health. 1) New York, NY, July 13, 1999--Discrediting claims made by environmentalists, scientists at the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH) have found no convincing evidence that certain synthetic chemicals in the environment endanger human health by disrupting the human endocrine system. In a newly released ACSH report, Endocrine Disrupters: A Scientific Perspective, experts challenge the exaggerated claims made by proponents of the endocrine disrupter hypothesis. The report concludes that typical exposures to synthetic chemicals in the environment are not linked, in humans, to alleged endocrine-related health problems such as reductions in sperm counts and cancers of reproductive organs. Continued at: http://www.acsh.org/press/releases/endmod062999.html ````````````````````````````````````````````````` Who is ASCH? ACSH is heavily financed by corporations with specific and direct interest in ACSH's chosen battles. Since it was created in 1978, it has come to the enthusiastic defense of virtually every chemical or additive backed by a major corporate interest. In many of these cases, investigative journalists have already exposed direct connections between ACSH and its funders. But in almost every instance, it takes little effort to discover which funder has a vested interest in supporting ACSHs message. Everything Bad is Good Again - Cholesterol: ACSH issued a report in 1991 stating that there is no proven link between heart disease and a high-fat diet and cholesterol. - Saccharin: According to a 1985 article in the Washington Post by Howard Kurtz, ACSH received funding from Coca-Cola, Pepsi, NutraSweet and the National Soft Drink Association, and attacked reports that saccharin is carcinogenic. - Formaldehyde: The same article noted that ACSH filed a friend-of-the-court brief in 1982 in a lawsuit brought by the Formaldehyde Institute. The suit successfully overturned a federal ban on insulation made with formaldehyde. Georgia-Pacific Co., a leading producer of the chemical and member of the Formaldehyde Institute, paid its Washington, DC, law firm to write the brief. ACSH submitted the brief under its own name. - Global Warming: In its position paper on global warming, ACSH states that implementation of fossil-fuel restrictions could "weaken the global economic system, [and] increase the incidence of poverty-related illness worldwide" This is a case of selective reasoning choosing the facts that fit and discarding the rest. Mainstream scientists recognize that a primary effect of global warming would be an increase in poverty-related illnesses such as malaria, cholera and dengue fever diseases dependent upon warm, wet climates. - Alar: In many ways, ACSHs work on the Alar issue is exemplary of the way the group works. Chemical makers with the assistance of industry front groups like ACSHfound a gold mine in keeping the decade-old Alar controversy alive. Although the chemical was banned by the government in 1991 and the EPA named it a possible human carcinogen, saying that "long-term exposure to Alar poses unacceptable risks to the public health," the American public generally recalls the issue as a case in which environmentalists were wrong. They are incorrect. In a 1973 study, Alar, a chemical used to lengthen the amount of time that apples could be left to ripen on the tree, was found to break down into a product called UMDH that is 1,000 times more carcinogenic than Alar itself. UMDH is formed when apples are cooked to make applesauce or apple juice. When environmental groups claimed that Alar was a danger, ACSH attacked the groups, maintaining the chemical was safe and the target of a media scare. ACSH receives funding from Uniroyal, the company that made Alar. Over the last decade, ACSH has made the Alar controversy a prominent part of its hallmark "Facts Versus Fears" report. A review of more than 25 "unfounded health scares," including dangers associated with saccharin, hormones in beef and DDT, the report is a whos who of products manufactured by ACSHs funders. ACSHs disinformation campaign on Alar has been alive almost since the controversy began; dozens of articles in papers from around the country have published articles on the "health scare." Though one of ACSHs main points about the "scare" was that it had a devastating effect on the apple industry, even the Washington Apple Commission noted that only two to three percent of consumers still were concerned about the chemical just a year after the story broke. Less than a year ago, ACSH and "Facts Versus Fears" even made it into the pages of the New York Times twice. The first piece was summary of the reports highlights. The second was an official correction in which the Times named Uniroyal as an ACSH funder, and clarified that the Alar was pulled from the market by the company before an EPA ban could take effect. C. EVERETT KOOPS HISTORY WITH ACSH Former US Surgeon General C. Everett Koops association with ACSH and its head, Elizabeth Whelan, is longstanding. In 1992, the pair joined forces in a strategic near-copy of their partnership on the "blue-ribbon panel" on phthalates. ACSH sponsored a Washington, DC, press conference on the third anniversary of the Alar controversy. Koop headed a panel of "experts" that claimed Alar never posed a health risk. According to an article in PR Watch, the Hill and Knowlton public relations firm persuaded Koop to write a statement that apples were safe. Whelan and Koop teamed up again to denounce Diet for a Poisoned Planet, a book that warned against the use of pesticides and chemical residues in foods. That campaign was organized by Ketchum Public Relations before the release of the book. Lorraine Thelian, the director of the Washington office of Ketchum, sits on the ACSH Board of Directors. Thelian is an expert on "environmental PR work," and her office represents a number of ACSH funders. Koop issued a statement calling the book "trash." On May 25 of this year, ACSH announced that it had joined forces with Koops new Internet healthcare site, drkoop.com. From the release: "The American Council on Science and Health (ACSH), a non-profit, consumer-advocacy organization is creating an exclusive health wire service for consumers. Guided by ACSH experts and written by experienced wire-service journalists, the daily ACSH newswire will help people better understand the health stories they see on the news by adding the often-missing scientific perspective. This partnership with drkoop.com gives consumers, who are constantly bombarded with conflicting and often alarming health news, an unbiased, scientific analysis of the latest trends in health and medicine, as well as clarifications of health misinformation found in the mainstream press." ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 19:51:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA06505 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA13575 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:16:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA13525 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.229]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990713231607.RQEF4954@worldnet.att.net>; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:16:07 +0000 Message-ID: <378BC88D.B3D6196A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:15:26 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net, "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Pesticides in Our Parks References: <199907132205.AAA26186@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1647 Fritz, The standards are low in the U.S., because the public is kept controlled and ignorant by chemical industry-funded organizations such as ACSH and American Crop Protection Association, which in turn fund government officials and Congressmen. We Americans think we are free. But, we are not!!! Only multinational corporations are free to spread disinformation. ~Bunny Snow _____________________________________________________ Frits v/d Laan wrote: > > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:53:02 -0400 (EDT) > > Subject: Pesticides in Our Parks > > > > Living on the Earth, July 9, 1999: Pesticides in Our Parks > > > > Bridgeport's Beardsley Park // > >>////contained a 22 percent nitrogen > > fertilizer mixed with a broadleaf weed killer called Trimec(tm). > > > > I questioned the workmen about the wisdom of applying soluble nitrogen, > > a serious environmental pollutant, especially in Long Island Sound. > > Allthough there still are places around (intensive agriculture towns > etc) that still use pesticides in public places lots of cities now > use pesticidefree ways to keep the parks and other green places. > I live in such a city and it is nice to know that you can eat > berries, collect seeds or plants from the cityparks and gardens and > eat them without any risk for it is known that they are guarantied > pesticidefree. > I often am suprised about the low standards used in the USA > concerning the use of pesticides compared with nordern europe. > > Frits v.d Laan > Netherlands > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 13 20:29:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA07367 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA05024 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:51:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA04892 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.72] [199.175.106.72] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m114CKe-000WS2C for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:51:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:53:17 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1142 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1648 Greg Gunthorp, in thinking about your staement that this may be the last generation of family farms, this question came into my head: to a manager or employee what is the real difference between a capitalist corporate farm and a communist state farm? Substantial decisions, whether about production or marketing, are made offsite bean-counters based upon criteria that has little or nothing to do with local needs or values. Does it really matter if the decision makers are called commisars or ceo's. Please don't get the idea I'm supporting comminism, if for no better or simpler reason than that it doesn't work. I'm beginning to think the same may be true of corporate capitalism. Don Maroc on Vancouver Island, sustaining life through natural-as-possible farming and a bit of off-farm income (you're right Greg, it ain't easy but it's satisfying) It's been a slow and aggonizing start on southern Vancouver Island this year, we are just now getting our first hot summer weather but the crops, especially in the greenhouses, have jumped into high gear. We're picking raspberries, more volume than quality because of the cool, grey weather, and a neighbour is selling buckets of black currants to the home jam makers. The bees are working hard on the blackberry blossoms. The fruit set on the apples, pears, and plums was very good but all vegetables are a month behind. Ah well, the pantry's still half full from last year's bumper crops. Oh, I forgot, the garlic (mostly that stiff-stemmed German variety) is as good as it gets and we'll start havesting next week. I've been thinning out some of the best to sell as seed and must say it enjoyed the cool, wet weather. The spuds are also luxurious but I'm holding my breath, they looked the same two years ago just before the late blight hit and we lost half the crop. By the way, the Women's Institutes in British Columbia (Canada), are gearing up this summer to start an all-out war with the global biochemical industry this fall. They're being coached by the UK Women's Institutes who appear to be rather successful. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 00:23:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA10291 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA27622 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:44:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA27554 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.254] (ppp-206-170-0-254.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.254]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10842; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:44:23 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:44:16 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: ACSH Cc: wrdc@execpc.com, mister3d@third-dimension.com, fgoodman@mwt.net, rlwills@execpc.com, populist@usa.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1649 Howdy, all-- First of all, friends, I warn you ahead of time that I am not, at present, suffering privileged people lightly. Not that I ever do, but about four hours ago I saw a Lexus-driving, gold-watch-wearing, buff, tanned, soft-handed, thirtysomething white boy blaat his horn, shake his fist and cuss at a weary, worn man pushing a shopping cart full of all his worldly possessions at 16th and Mission here in San Francisco. The man had the temerity to cross the street on a green light ahead of Lexus Boy, who was trying to blow thru the intersection on a dead red. It was only my lack of a handlebar-mounted laser-rocket launcher that prevented me from using it. But I digress. Regarding the current SANET discussion on the American Council on Science and Health--check out the list of "Scientific and policy advisors" for this organization. http://www.acsh.org/about/advisors.html It includes such populist sympathizers and scientific luminaries as Earl Butz, Michael Pariza (UW), and Dr. Hard Science himself, Dennis "Contrarian" Avery. Uh, you can decide who belongs in which category. :^] Big money is just part of the picture, Bunny. What we're seeing here is a world view that puts assertion of a particular investigative methodology ahead of everything, including the ability to ask original questions, to observe without prejudice, to learn from history, and to listen to the dictates of common sense. (Common sense? Did I say common sense? Dang ol ghost of Tom Paine must be waltzin' thru the Sunset District, on his way from the Rapidly Gentrifying Mission to some free trade-ista sweatshop on the other side of the Pacific.) Anyhow, if you'd like to see what this particular alignment of beliefs can do with a hefty communications budget, see ACSH's publications list: http://www.acsh.org/publications/index.html In brief, if there's a technology assessment issue where anyone has questioned industry in any form, or expressed concerns about a technology's effects on people, ACSH fosters and communicates the research that favors industry. I have no doubt whatever that, strictly speaking, on the turf upon which they stand to argue the Scientific Truth, and the Balance of Research-Based Facts, they are probably not wrong in their assertions. They've got the research to back their viewpoints up. And the money to sift, winnow, and communicate it. From a public interest research perspective, it's a nifty scam--uh, stance: one can always challenge the poorly funded questioners of technology to come up with a similar retinue of research to the private-sector and university researchers'. ("Yah? Well PROVE IT according to the ways WE say, nyeah!!!") Public interest research isn't exactly pulling down the big bucks lately. And even where some well-organized folks manage to squeeze these public interest projects thru the millstones of funding, peer review, and publication, it can always be argued that they didn't *counterprove* exactly what the big guns proved. Thus leading to *more* research by the well-funded researchers, to research the researchable researched researches, and re-researching the re-researched re-researches. Like the legendary foo-foo bird which flies in ever-smaller circles till it disappears up its own.... But I digress yet again. Well heck, it's not a bad way to earn a living--whether asserting the appropriate departymental line within the Ed Biz or serving as one of the managerial staff of the Knowledge Factory. After all, it costs a few bucks, being and staying an educated and privileged white person in the USA. :^] I've gotta stop reading /The Progressive Populist/. It makes me so dang cranky. http://www.eden.com/~reporter/index.html '^D :^> Reporting live from the cradle of Biotechnology and the Internet, and the frontier of the biggest Class War in US history, with a supper of California fruit (figs, plums, and apricots) and Wisconsin cheese in front of me (un-aged cow asiago and Cedar Grove garlic curds), I remain your never terribly humble correspondent, and grateful as always for the farmers who filled my plate. peace misha Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As crude a weapon as the cave man's club, the chemical barrage has been hurled against the fabric of life. --Rachel Carson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 00:27:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA10335 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA27647 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:44:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA27591 for ; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.254] (ppp-206-170-0-254.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.254]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10885; Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:37:38 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Cattlemen's Legal Fund/news archives Cc: wrdc@execpc.com, fgoodman@mwt.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1650 Howdy, all-- I was digging around various corners and crannies in agricyberspace and ran across something I thought might interest some of you. Here is the Web site of the Cattlemen's Legal Fund in St. Francis, KS: http://nobull.net/legal/ "Cattlemen's Legal Fund is a producer partnership, made up of cattlemen across the United States, dedicated to insuring a free, open and competitive market at all levels of beef production and sales." Thought some of you might appreciate their news archives. Go to the above URL, and click on the News Archives button. I believe that those of you working on consolidation in the pork, poultry, and other industries would find fodder there. Ditto those of you working on fair trade initiatives. Their links page (click on Links) is also potentially of interest. peace misha Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 04:38:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA12434 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA24072 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 03:53:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA24004 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 03:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.254] (ppp-206-170-32-80.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.80]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07798 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:59:39 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Salmonellosis/OJ--ProMED Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1651 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you food safety watchers. From the ProMED list server. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SALMONELLOSIS, ORANGE JUICE - USA (NORTHWEST) (06) ************************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 From: Marjorie P. Pollack & Chan Yow Cheong ProMED-mail Regional Moderator for Asia Source: Associated Press, 9 Jul 1999 Reacting to dozens of salmonella cases nationwide, the Food and Drug Administration on Saturday warned consumers not to drink unpasteurized orange juice distributed by an Arizona company. The juice products, both frozen and liquid, were distributed under several brand names by Sun Orchard Inc. of Tempe. Besides the Sun Orchard label, the juice was sold under the labels Earls & Joey Tomato's, Trader Joe's, Markon, Sysco, Aloha and Voila! The juice in question was dated for use by July 7 or earlier. So far, 52 cases of salmonella poisoning in Washington state have been linked to the unpasteurized orange juice. Other states and Canadian provinces also have reported cases. Health officials say those who suspect they may have salmonella poisoning should see a doctor immediately. The bacteria can cause severe intestinal distress and possibly even death. Sun Orchard has stopped production of unpasteurized juice and is now pasteurizing all of its juice products, the FDA said. - -- ProMED-mail [It is noteworthy that Trader Joe's is a food market chain that has expanded operations to the East Coast of the USA. It would seem that there may be a potential for additional reports from that region. - MPP/ Mod.ES] Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 09:43:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA15231 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA14322 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:54:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web607.mail.yahoo.com (web607.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.171]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA14299 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990714125308.16562.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web607.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:53:08 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: GM Trees Destroyed To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1652 Hello SANETeers, just an FYI...kate Media Release >FOR IMMEDIATE USE ON MONDAY 12th July 1999 >Genetic Engineering Network >Tel. 0181 374 9516 > > > >UK's ONLY GM TREES DESTOYED BY ACTIVISTS >The only field trials of Genetically Modified trees growing in the UK were >destroyed by anti GM activists during the night, the Genetic Engineering >Network has learned this morning. > >In an anonymous phone call the activists claim to have destroyed 115 of the >estimated 120 GM poplars which were growing in 2 adjacent test sites at >AstraZeneca's research station in Bracknell, Berkshire. It is claimed that >some of the trees have been ringbarked while others have been felled. As far >as GEN is aware no one has been arrested in connection with this action. > >This direct action against GM trees coincides with the opening of the Forest >Biotechnology conference taking place in Oxford this week. The conference >brings together scientists, academics and companies to discuss the GM >takeover of the world's forests. In a statement passed to GEN the anonymous >activists claiming responsibility for this action said the following : > >"Genetic modification of trees is a major threat to the worlds environment. >Forests maintain our atmosphere and climate, and sustain many thousands of >independent species of animals and plants. Those who are manipulating the >DNA of trees, using very powerful but new and dimly understood technology, >show contempt for our planet and the life it supports, including human life. >They respect only profit for themselves and their shareholders. > >"We have taken this action today in the hope of placing some obstacle, >however small, in the way of AstraZeneca and the rest of the biotechnology >business who are recklessly vandalising our world. > >"It is likely that AstraZeneca will respond by claiming that their GM trees >will allow more eco-friendly industrial processes and/or help save the >Earths forests. Such cynical claims have been made before by the >biotechtransnationals and have been shown to be false. GM trees will lead >to increased conversion of forests into regimented wood pulp factories and >increased chemical use. > >"AstraZeneca has stated that the Poplars that they were growing at Bracknell >were safe because they could not cross-pollinate. This ignores the issues of >horizontal gene transfer which genetic manipulation makes more likely to >occur. >Trees have much longer life cycles than other GM plants, they have very >extensive root systems and complex relationships with other organisms, for >instance insects and soil bacteria. Far from being safety trials the GM >Poplar tests at Bracknell posed a threat to environmental safety. > >"We have been forced to take this action ourselves because the biotechnology >companies have used their wealth and power to subvert not only the process >of >scientific innovation but also the democratic process. We call on the >Government to cease its collusion with the biotech industry. Our earth and >its >people should come before the reckless pursuit of profit." > >ENDS >Editors Notes >1. The location of the GE tree test site is Jealotts Hill Research >Station,Bracknell, Berkshire, RG12 6EY. Phone AstraZeneca: 01344 424701. The >grid reference for this site SU 8773. As far as we are aware the site can be >viewed >>from the road. > >2. The trees are owned by AstraZeneca who have now confirmed that the action >took place - They are GM Poplar, modified for reduced lignin content. Zeneca >are by far the largest UK based biotech company - earlier this year they >merged >with Astra, the pharmaceutical giant. > >3. A coalition campaign group opposing GE trees has been formed in the past >few >months. The GEFF (GE Free Forestry) coalition has been contacted and may be >able to help with media enquiries. geffcoalition@hotmail.com. For GEFF >please >call: 07771 788 750 > >4. GEFF are planning a protest outside the Forestry Biotech Conference on >Wednesday 14th July. Meeting point 9.30am, green space opposite Natural >History >museum of Oxford University, Parks Rd, Oxford. (more details below press >release) > >5. This is the 2nd time in the UK that GE trees have been targetted by >activists. The first came in 1997 when a test site of GE apple trees in >Derbyshire was ringbarked during a night time action. >========== >Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:34:14 +0100 >From: genetics >Subject: GE - An Alternative Model Farm occupied and transformed > >An Alternative Model Farm occupied and transformed > >Occupation and transformation of farm-house at farm-scale trial of genetically >modified crops. > >In the early hours of Friday morning (July 9th 1999), eighteen people >occupied a farm house belonging to the owner of Model Farm, near >Watlington in Oxfordshire where a farm scale trial (up to 10 hectares/ 24 >acres) of genetically modified (GM) oil seed rape are being grown. The >grounds of the farm house were quickly transformed into an organic garden to >demonstrate an alternative to the GM crops being grown in the adjacent >field, hence it's new name 'The Alternative Model Farm'. The garden was >completed for viewing for a wonderful open day that took place on Sunday 11th >July. > >The Alternative Model Farm (formerly known as Clare Hill Farm) was >unoccupied and is structurally sound. It has been left open and derelict for >five years and >was cleaned and made habitable by its new occupants. It forms part of >the Macclesfield Estate, reportedly 3,000 acres which also includes Model >Farm. The Estate owners had not given permission to occupy the building. > >The grounds of the farm are approximately half an acre. The organic garden >demonstrates sustainable agriculture, free from synthetic chemical >fertilisers and pesticide, natural composting, companion planting and >materials recycling are design features. An information marquee houses >disoplays and reading material explainig the dangers of GM crops and the >benefits of organic agriculture and how you can become active against GE >technology. > >Local residents in Watlington and other villages had their homes leafleted >inviting them to the open day on Sunday 11th July where many came along and >looked around with some even helping in the gardens. A community based >campaign >opposing the GM crops at Model Farm has been running since May this year. A >stall at the Watlington Festival on May Bank Holiday distributed information >and sold GM-Free cake. On 15th June a public >meeting held at Icknield School in Watlington (population 2,500) attracted >almost 200 people. A GM-free picnic and procession to the site on 10th July >attracted about 100 people including families and children in a colourful and >peaceful event. Local residents have already received Oxy-gene's Newsletter; a >second edition will accompany the open day invitation. A local residents group >concerned about the GM crop is being established. > >Model Farm is one of only two sites in the UK which are hosting farm-scale >trials of GM oil seed rape, which are scheduled to last for four years. One >of the three trials at Lushill Farm, Hannington near Swindon was stopped >earlier this year, leaving Model Farm and Boothby Graffoe, Lincolnshire as >the remaining trials. The government will not confirm that commercial >planting will have to wait until the trials are completed. > >The GM crop, which is now flowering has been modified by agrochemical >company AgrEvo to tolerate their total herbicide, Liberty. This herbicide >kills all plants ('weeds') except the GM oil seed rape. The farm scale >trial's stated purpose is to assess the effect of herbicide tolerant GM >crops on the abundance and diversity of plants and invertebrates. There is >concern that the loss of wild plants ('weeds') could remove the habitat and >food source of wildlife which birds and small mammals feed upon. Much >wildlife including song birds are already under threat from industrial >agriculture and there is concern that GM crops will intensify this pressure >and could lead to species extinction. > >Kathryn Tulip, one of the demonstrators said >"In contrast to the GM trial site across the road, the Alternative Model >Farm demonstrates a vision of sustainable agriculture which benefits people >and the environment, rather than just fuelling the profits of the >agrochemical industry". > >Oxy-gene is (Oxfordshire's Alliance opposed the genetically modified food >and crops) or it's members are **not** occupying the farmhouse but Oxy-gene >is obviously publicising the occupation by demonstrators. They are available >for interview and there is an on-site mobile phone. Note that Vodafone is >the only mobile phone network which functions in the area. > >The farmhouse ('The Alternative Model Farm') can be reached by taking >junction 6 of the M40 (signed Watlington). See map below. Turn onto the >B4009 and follow the road towards Watlington. You will pass a right hand >turn signed Lewknor and enter the village of Shirburn. On leaving the >village look for a right hand turn singed Pyrton. Take this turn and follow >the winding road into and out of Pyrton. Continue following the road which >after about half a mile will start to climb. The field of GM oil seed rape >(now flowering) can be seen on the right and on the left the >pull-in/entrance for The Alternative Model Farm (labeled Clare Hill Farm on >maps). The entrance is slightly obscured by trees and hedgerow. There should >be a sign visible from the road. If you pass the entrance to the farm then >you will come to a cross roads with a house on the right at the junction; >turn back and retrace your steps. > >The 'Stop the Crop' National Rally is being organised by the Genetic >Engineering Network. Speakers will include Alan Simpson M.P.; George >Monbiot, writer and journalist; Lynda Brown, food writer; Jean Saunders from >the successful Lushill Farm Campaign. Rally starts at 2.00 p.m. Contact >G.E.N for more details, telephone: 0181 374 9516. > >*Photographs of the occupation are available from photographer: Rob Todd >Telephone: 07977 275 563 >* Video footage on DVC format of the occupation available from Hugh >Warwick page:04325 613 406 > >OXY-GENE - Oxfordshire's alliance opposed to genetically modified food and >crops >Box 'W', 111 Magdalen Rd, Oxford. OX4 1RQ. Tel/Fax: 01865 724 024 >PRESS LIAISON TEL: 0973 953 446 === ------------------ Kate Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 609-234-9200 (O) 609-234-0733 (F) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 10:50:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17361 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA27057 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:06:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web601.mail.yahoo.com (web601.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA27011 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990714140353.25290.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web601.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:03:53 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:03:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: bt and butterflies To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1653 Found this on the Progressive Populist website that Misha referenced. Good to see a post from you Misha. I've missed you. Kate RURAL ROUTES/Margot Ford McMillen Of Bt and Butterflies Tired of the flash and boom, we're seeking another way to celebrate July 4. We still love the pyrotechnics, but nobody's fooled any more when stories of violence in local schools appear on the same page with pictures of refugees in faraway places. It's time to reconsider how we celebrate our national holidays. As I was mulling this over, a flurry of news came out on the subject of the monarch butterfly, in Nature, Wall Street Journal and Time, and your local newspaper. The monarch is in unexpected danger, because of a new genetically altered corn plant. Question: Why would anybody genetically alter corn? First of all, remember that farmers come in all sizes. Ask your farmer's market producer if he or she plants genetically altered plants. I bet they don't. Farmers that grow food to sell directly to you are leery of genetically altered plants because nobody really knows what the effects of the alterations will be in the long run. In fact, farmers raising food organically are worried about genetically altered plants because there is no guarantee the plants won't mix with tried-and-true varieties and make something else. On the other hand, the highly indebted corporate farmer who sells corn to the feed lots and chicken or hog factories are the ones planting Bt crops. Corporate farmers want maximum yields from their fields; they buy seed that they think will maximize yields. Incidentally, the crops they grow are available in all your fast foods and groceries. In the effort to maximize yields, the seed scientists look for ways to make the plants resistant to pests, which eat crops. The newest way is called by a variety of names, including genetic engineering, genetic modification, genetic alteration or gene splicing. When one term gets known and understood, they change it. The resulting plant or animal is often called a "genetically modified organism" or "GMO." It may seem that all this is just an advanced level of the kind of selection breeders have been doing for years, saving seed from the best plants to put in the ground next year. Or purposely breeding plants and animals with certain characteristics so they would have offspring that displayed those qualities. That kind of selective breeding has given us corn plants that withstand drought, or that have more ears on a stalk. It has also given us Angus cattle that yield more beef and holstein cattle that give more milk. And, selective breeding is what makes cocker spaniel dogs look different than poodles or pointers. This new technology isn't selective breeding. The new technology involves putting DNA from one species into another. Petunia genes are spliced into soybeans, or fish genes are spliced into tomatoes. The result is a kind of soybean -- or tomato -- that could never be bred naturally. The larva-killing corn resulted when scientists spliced bacteria DNA into a corn kernel. The new plant is sometimes nicknamed "Bt," after the bacteria, Bacillus thuringiensis. Bt is poisonous to many insects that feast on crops. Eating Bt corn kills pests. And, Bt corn produces pollen which carries the Bt DNA. Like all pollens, this one blows all over the place. Some of it lands on other corn, fertilizing it, and some of it might lodge in your very own sinuses, making you sneeze if you are allergic. As my sister says, someone needs to invent corn condoms. Inevitably, some pollen lands on milkweed, the only food eaten by monarchs in their caterpillar stage. And this Bt pollen, scientists proved in a Cornell University laboratory and in Iowa State University field tests, killed 44% of the monarch caterpillars exposed to it. Monarchs are the first butterflies the scientists have tested, because the orange and black beauties have a fan club. I visited a Kansas City school district that had built a curriculum around the monarch. The children -- and kids from dozens of other "Monarchwatch" schools on the hemisphere -- bring eggs into the classrooms to watch them hatch, tag the butterflies, released them gently into the sky with the hope that they'd make it to hibernation grounds in Mexico. Big kids read monarch fact sheets to kindergartners. Big kids are cool, so the little ones pay attention. At recess, I saw play stop when a butterfly passed overhead. The school neighborhood is in transition from rural pastures to suburban lawns, and children teach their parents not to mow away all the milkweed habitat. In just this little way, the kids are learning how very wonderful and mysterious our world is and how they can be responsible for some of it. I asked the kids why they studied monarchs. After all, nobody has ever proven that monarchs are good for anything. The kids answered that monarchs are part of nature, something that belongs here, beautiful, and interesting. Without monarch butterflies, the kids said, the world would be sadder. The study of monarchs is surprising. It opens up more questions than answers. Each generation of the butterflies picks up one leg of a migration from Mexico to Canada and back. It takes three generations to make a year's round, and nobody knows how the information on navigation is passed from generation to generation. Read one article about monarchs, or look up the monarchwatch web page on the internet and you'll be hooked. But monarchs are only one of the dozens of species of butterflies that live in our neighborhoods. What about fritillary? Swallowtail? painted lady? Nobody knows. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. As I write this, I'm munching on a bowl of cherries from my neighbor's tree. They're delicious -- much better than the crow I have to eat with them, because I declared last year that we could never grow cherries here. Never have and never will. I'd never plant cherry trees again, I said. She was too polite to remind me of my brash declaration. "It's the bees," she said. Two years ago, three of us women got bee hives. Caring for our bees has given us more than we ever dreamed. We work in the hives together, collect swarms together, build and paint hives together, share books and information, compare notes, develop recipes, and worry each other to distraction. We've also noticed the contribution the bees make to our environment. Our hayfields have more clover; our fruit trees have more fruit. The cherries are the most recent surprise. So what will happen when the bees bring Bt pollen back to the hives to feed their young? The answer, of course, is that nobody knows. Maybe it's too late, this year, to make plans to celebrate peace on Independence Day. But take a minute to enjoy the butterflies, the bees, the cherries. Maybe it's our last chance. Maybe we can celebrate our own independence wherever we find it. Celebrate our independent food system by eating foods grown locally and not brought by trucks from faraway places. Celebrate our independent transportation systems by walking or biking to the park. Celebrate our independent entertainment systems by playing cards with the neighbors. But maybe it's too late, because we've already promised flash and boom. Margot Ford McMillen farms and teaches English at a college in Fulton, Mo. Email: mcmillm@jaynet.wcmo.edu _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 12:51:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20258 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA17797 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:45:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17770 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.20] (gl-ppp00.hevanet.com [204.119.60.20]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00756; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907141545.IAA00756@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 08:46:41 -0700 Subject: FW: Biotech Bouquet in the Works From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1654 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Biotech Bouquet in the Works Date: Wed, Jul 14, 1999, 7:10 AM STORY LEAD: Biotech Bouquet in the Works ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Jan Suszkiw, (301) 504-1630, jsuszkiw@asrr.arsusda.gov July 14, 1999 ---------- Sturdier breeds of lily, gladiolus and other cut-flowers may come from the greenhouse of Kathryn Kamo and her colleagues in a Beltsville, Md., laboratory operated by the Agricultural Research Service, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. Using biotechnology, the scientists are seeking to do what conventional breeding has not achieved: produce commercial cultivars with resistance to viruses that menace the nation's $15 billion floriculture industry. One is the cucumber mosaic virus (CMV), a disease-causing pathogen that aphids spread to flower crops while probing for sap. Spraying insecticide is one recourse. But the practice can be costly and harmful to beneficial bugs. As an alternative, Kamo's team genetically engineered 30 strains of gladiolus with built-in defenses. About 250 of the plants are growing in a greenhouse at the U.S. National Arboretum's Floral and Nursery Crops Research Lab in Beltsville. Operated by ARS, the arboretum itself is located in Washington, D.C. The gladioli, now in full bloom in Beltsville, are resplendent in yellow and pink flowers. But soon, they'll be artificially infected with CMV so scientists can check for signs of resistance or susceptibility. Virus-induced streaking in petals, brown spotting in leaves, and other unsightly symptoms can diminish a cut-flower's aesthetic value, according to Kamo, a plant physiologist. She is particularly anxious to test the gladiolis' durability, since they're the first ornamental bulb crop to be engineered with a "gene gun." The device has enabled scientists to fire bits of genetic material, called viral DNA, into cells grown from the bulbs of the gladiolus cultivars "Peter Pears" and "Jenny Lee." From the cells, scientists grew whole plants. This summer's greenhouse studies will help show whether two viral coat proteins and an enzyme in the plants will foil CMV's ability to replicate and cause disease. The trick for scientists is perfecting an inoculation technique that leaves little doubt of disease resistance. From there, it would be up to commercial florists to develop the gladiolis into new varieties. ---------- Scientific contact: Kathryn Kamo, ARS Floral and Nursery Crops Research Lab, Beltsville, Md., (301) 504 5350, fax (301) 504-5096, kkamo@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 15:01:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00808 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA12473 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:15:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12463 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02891 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:15:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EFHQPX9C; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:14:32 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:58:58 -0700 Subject: Squash vine bores Message-ID: <19990714.110042.3446.3.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7,16,22,24-26 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1655 Maybe someone else has a less labor-intensive method of controling the bores than I've read. Fortunately, I've not had the problem. But I've read instructions to cut the vine open (lengthwise) to find the larva where you see the saw-dust-like frass. Once you've exposed the bore, FORGET THE SEVIN. Use your knife! Or pull it out and feed it to the chickens. Or put it on the ground and step on it. Then, to try to save the plant, you push the vine back together (that is why you want to make the cut lengthwise) and put some moist dirt over it. My copy of Rodale's Garden Problem Solver also talks about injecting BT with a hypodermic needle or denying the moth access with agricultural fleece (but I wonder how the bees would pollinate the blossoms). They go on to suggest a trap crop of early summer squash around late winter varieties. Harvest a few early summer squash then burn or otherwise destroy (see next paragraph) the infected summer squash plants. For more summer squash, replant late in the season. The book also suggests hand picking the eggs (.1" long brown or reddish disk shaped in rows or clusters near the base of the plant.) For the future, they suggest putting all suspectible vines in a plastic bag at the end of the season and let them cook in the sun for a week or so to destroy any remaining bores. After harvest, completely clean up the area and leave the ground bare for a few days to let birds eat any larva or pupa. Then cultivate it and leave it bare for a few more days before mulching or planting a cover crop. Although I can't claim personal experience, all this makes sence to me. Best wishes on transitioning to certified organic. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 17:12:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04513 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01611 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:29:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01545 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id IAA10793 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:15:00 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz(Samira by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:00:32 +1200 Message-ID: <375754216cb5@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: Wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz (Samira Wohlfart) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 07:53:57 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: US to label GM foods!!! Reply-to: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1656 Wednesday, July 14, 1999 Published at 12:25 GMT 13:25 UK Sci/Tech US to label GM foods  US farmers have taken to GM crops in a big way  The US Government has said that it will probably agree to label genetically-modified (GM) food. At the moment, American law does not require this. However, European governments have threatened to continue their ban on the import of certain US GM products if the Americans do not accept such labelling. Up to now, the Clinton administration has opposed GM labelling, agreeing with the American food industry that it unfairly stigmatises what they regard as perfectly safe products. But the US Agriculture Secretary, Dan Glickman, said that relations with Europe on the GM issue could deteriorate into an all-out trade war and labelling was a way in which such a crisis might be avoided. Speaking before an audience of environmentalists, lobbyists and lawmakers, Mr Glickman extolled the benefits of biotechnology. He said the technology would lead to increased yields and a decrease in the use of pesticides. Loud rhetoric According to Mr Glickman, several European countries were letting their fears override these potential benefits. And he urged them to sort out their internal differences as soon as possible. "Quite frankly, the food safety and regulatory regimes in Europe are so split, and so divided amongst the different countries, that I am extremely concerned that failure to work out these bio-tech issues in a sensible way could do deep damage in our next trade round, and affects both agriculture and non-agricultural issues," he said. "Both sides of the Atlantic must tone down rhetoric, roll up their sleeves, and work towards conflict resolution, based on open trade, sound science, and consumer involvement. And I think this can be done if the will is there." American farmers are producing more and more genetically-engineered products, with 44% of American soya beans and 36% of corn coming from GM seeds. So far this has been accepted without question by the American public. But last month, researchers at Cornell University said that pollen from GM corn had been shown to kill Monarch butterflies. Threat to butterflies This has prompted the US Environmental Defence Fund to petition the country's Environmental Protection Agency to introduce rules that would see buffer zones of 18 metres (60 feet) around GM corn to protect the butterflies. "There is considerable concern that other butterflies, not only Monarchs, but including endangered species may be killed by the widespread planting of GM corn," said Rebecca Goldburg, senior scientist for the fund. But a study presented on Tuesday by an association of biotechnology companies and research institutions said more research was required to establish the real threat to butterflies. Leonard Gianessi, senior research associate at the US National Center for Food and Agricultural Policy, said: "I know of these risk concerns, I believe that the agency will look very closely at those kind of risk concerns, to the Monarch and others. "And if they conclude that there is a risk, an increased risk, then they will do something about it. So there will be more research done." Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 19:26:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA07436 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01980 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:42:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA01966 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id RAA29820; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:42:16 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma029389; Wed, 14 Jul 99 17:41:41 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3W8MZ1MV>; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE19@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'sksnow@worldnet.att.net'" Subject: RE: Who is ACSH? & Why are they discrediting claims of certain sy nethetic chemicals endangering the endocrine systems of human? Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:41:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA01970 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1657 Bunny, I read the report and found it lucid, balanced, and well-documented. http://www.acsh.org/publications/booklets/enddis.pdf > Who is ACSH? The ACSH board is mainly scientists and physicians. I took a random sample of about twenty of the 250 ACSH board members and looked up their publications. More than half have published extensively in peer-reviewed journals, and appear to be productive scientists. > In many of these cases, investigative journalists have already > exposed direct connections between ACSH and its funders. Could you be more specific? > But in almost every instance, it takes little effort to discover > which funder has a vested interest in supporting ACSHs message. That doesn't mean their findings are wrong. > Re-arrange the letters, just as ASCH has re-arranged findings > in published studies, and you find ''CASH'' funded by vested > interests. What part of the report do you disagree with? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 14 20:53:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA08896 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02713 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:30:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02692 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.243.206]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990714232925.LAYR4651@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:29:25 +0000 Message-ID: <378D1D2E.4C1325D0@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:28:46 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Who is ACSH? & Why are they discrediting claims of certain sy nethetic chemicals endangering the endocrine systems of human? References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE19@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1658 Dale, What I wrote is: posted at: . Specifically, I wrote: <. I thought you might be interested, in case you've read that scientists at the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH) have found no convincing evidence that certain synthetic chemicals in the environment endanger human health by disrupting the human endocrine system. Re-arrange the letters, just as ASCH has re-arranged findings in published studies, and you find ''CASH'' funded by vested interests. >> ~Bunny Snow The rest was written by David King of National Environmental Trust. Wilson, Dale wrote: > Bunny, > > I read the report and found it lucid, balanced, and well-documented. > > http://www.acsh.org/publications/booklets/enddis.pdf > > > Who is ACSH? > > The ACSH board is mainly scientists and physicians. I took a random sample > of about twenty of the 250 ACSH board members and looked up their > publications. More than half have published extensively in peer-reviewed > journals, and appear to be productive scientists. > > > In many of these cases, investigative journalists have already > > exposed direct connections between ACSH and its funders. > > Could you be more specific? > > > But in almost every instance, it takes little effort to discover > > which funder has a vested interest in supporting ACSHs message. > > That doesn't mean their findings are wrong. > > > Re-arrange the letters, just as ASCH has re-arranged findings > > in published studies, and you find ''CASH'' funded by vested > > interests. > > What part of the report do you disagree with? > > Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 02:46:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA13426 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:46:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA07005 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:34:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA06991 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.210] (ppp-206-170-0-210.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.210]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06099 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE19@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE19@vela.phibred.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:32:50 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: RE: Who is ACSH? & Why are they discrediting claims of certain sy nethetic chemicals endangering the endocrine systems of human? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1659 >The ACSH board is mainly scientists and physicians. I took a random sample >of about twenty of the 250 ACSH board members and looked up their >publications. More than half have published extensively in peer-reviewed >journals, and appear to be productive scientists. That would be a nonsystematic random sample, Dale. Certainly not admissible under the standards of experimental or even quasi-experimental rigor. :^D But even taking you at your word, what you're telling us is that 11 of the 250 ACSH board members, or 4 percent, have published extensively in peer-reviewed journals and appear to be productive scientists. I'm not sure what conclusions you're drawing from this. Nor how that relates to the observation made about the relationship between "objective" science, the communication of findings, and the physics of the funding flow. > > But in almost every instance, it takes little effort to discover > > which funder has a vested interest in supporting ACSH's message. > >That doesn't mean their findings are wrong. Right and wrong aren't the point. The formulation and shaping of hypotheses, of testing mechanisms, of interpretation, of presentation, and of review is what I saw being questioned. Not abstract categories of ultimate right and wrong. Besides, everyone knows that scientists can't be wrong. > > Re-arrange the letters, just as ASCH has re-arranged findings > > in published studies, and you find ''CASH'' funded by vested > > interests. > >What part of the report do you disagree with? I'm not intending to answer for Bunny in observing that the part of the report I disagree with *is* the source(s) of funding. Here's a modest proposal: Turn these questions/issues over--at the same level of funding--to a public interest research program designed and overseen by citizens. Let citizens be part of the research teams, equal and respected members, and let them also generate not only the hypotheses but the experimental methods and designs to test them. Let citizens decide how the money will be spent, and what the researchers will earn. Let them work with researchers on the narrow-scope technical stuff that researchers know best--allow researchers the role of technical consultants. But let citizens contribute the parts that they know best--the whole-systems perspectives. Then let's see what findings emerge. Just for fun, of course. Such a thing couldn't possibly happen in the real world. Unless you went to someplace like Wisconsin. :^> Well, minus the funding levels and insulation from critique to which many corporate and university scientists are accustomed. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer a rude vigor to a polished banality. --Utah Philips To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 06:40:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA16059 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA26691 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:42:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA26614 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0012.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.182.12]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27856; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378A8FBE.7228C0ED@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:00:46 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: War: new restrictions of cholinesterase inhibitors References: <377C2A76.D48DA4A8@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1660 Incidentally, cholinesterase is one of the enzymes in the brain that distinguishes brain power. People who have much of this enzyme in the brain are said to be more capable mentally--the difference between an ordinary person and a genius is that the genius has more of this enzyme in the brain--I suppose that means, generally speaking there is more.============== Bunny Snow wrote: > There is a real war going on across the U.S. On one side is the USEPA > is actually attempting to better protect farm workers and our children's > health (while at the same time help the biotech industry). And on the > other side the American Crop Protection Association, which represents > about 90 major pesticide and chemical companies who manufacture > organophosphate and carbamate nerve gases are brainwashing reporters. > > Is ACPA involved with the Texas A&M University Agricultural and Food > Policy Center? AFPA has presented papers on the impacts of eliminating > organophosphates and carbamates from food production. See: > . > > The American people need to hear both sides of the issues. They need to > hear from you because you are growing safer, healthier food and soil! > > I've taken these snippets from the middle of a long article at the URL > of and the > author, Mr. Bernton left his telephone number and email address for you > to contact him...503-294-7689 or by e-mail at > > > I encourage organic farmers to share their side of the story regarding > the combating of these pests, lest the nerve gases stay on the market > and kill beneficial organisms, livestock, wildlife, domestic animals, > and children of all ages, alike. > > ~Bunny Snow > ________________________________________________ > > Agencies prod farmers to cut chemical use on potatoes > > An EPA review of the Northwest industry to gauge cumulative risks -- on > and off the farm --could lead to new restrictions > Sunday, June 27, 1999 > > By Hal Bernton of The Oregonian staff > > **...To rid their fields of the worms, Oregon potato farmers use a > high-volume mix of metam-sodium and 1-3 dichloropropene, fumigants that > penetrate the ground and extinguish most soil life. In 1997, they pumped > more than 8 million pounds of fumigants into the soil. > > The chemicals appear to dissipate rapidly and don't show up as residues > in any of the federal sampling surveys. Nor do they appear to leach into > the groundwater. State officials have found serious nitrate pollution > from farm fertilizers but no significant ground-water pollution from > fumigants or other pesticides. > > But the fumigants can drift into the air and off the fields. Each spring > and fall, air monitors around the U.S. Army's Umatilla Chemical Depot, a > nerve-gas storage site near Hermiston, register readings of fumigants > for weeks. > > The fumigants also pack such a powerful punch that they kill beneficial > organisms in the soil that would be a farmer's ally. > > "Agriculture is a biological process, and if you nuke all the > organisms, it slows down the decomposition of organic matter and can > disrupt the recycling of nutrients and all sorts of things," said Chuck > Benbrook, an entomologist and former staff member of the National > Academy of Sciences board on agriculture. > > Russ Ingham, an Oregon State University nematologist, is trying to find > ways to reduce fumigant use. In 1997, he demonstrated that farmers could > cut back their use by 20 percent annually and still achieve good > nematode control. This year, in a test plot above the Columbia River, > he's searching for new efficiencies, bagging dozens of soil-treatment > samples for analysis at his Corvallis laboratory. > > He dreams of a day when fumigants no longer are needed. Toward that end, > he's trying to find crops that nematodes don't attack. Grown in rotation > with potatoes, such crops might knock back the nematodes to a safe > level. > > For now, the crops most efficient at fighting nematodes aren't lucrative > enough to attract many farmers. The hottest prospect so far is the > humble lima bean.''... ** > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 06:40:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA16065 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA27237 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:43:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA27137 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0012.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.182.12]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28052; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378AA21C.4571CF2F@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:19:08 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu, "'waldenfarm@sprintmail.com'" , "'Roberto Verzola'" Subject: Re: Social and political aspects (was: Questions on organic livestock ...) References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FDEB@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1661 Those "real people" he talks about are not satisfied with just making a living. That kind of person wants to make a killing, not just a living. Mr. Wilson is always on the wrong side. ================ Wilson, Dale wrote: > Alex, > > > Shame on you for saying, "your vision of "organic" agriculture > > is social and political, not biological." > > My point is that one of the big drivers behind "alternative", "organic", and > "sustainable" (depending on the definition of sustainable) agriculture is > social and political. For example > > Roberto wrote: > > Perhaps Greg's point is better expressed as follows: > > organic production can only be done by real persons > > (who are biological entities) and not by legal constructs > > like corporations (which are as artificial as synthetic > > chemicals and pesticides). > > I can assure you and Roberto that "real people" do the work in companies > like Monsanto, Pioneer, Novartis, Bayer, etc., not that these companies have > any interest in producing "organic" crops. Of course, some "companies" do > have an interest. These are "industrial", "chemical" farmers (falsely > characterized IMO) whose companies are mainly successful family farms. This > tendency to dehumanize your opponents is disturbing (but very understandable > in a political sense). > > So, if someone like that is successful producing 100 acres of certified > organic onions at a shot and packing them with efficient infrastructure, is > that a problem? To a lot of people this IS a problem because of social and > political issues. These issues are real, and should be discussed as > political and social issues. > > Alex wrote: > > Please to note that we are the ones who have preserved the > > real form of traditional agriculture through the past 60 years > > or so. > > That sounds like a social issue to me. > > > all the money -hungry yobs want to get a piece of the action > > So it is at root an us-them kind of thing? What if those "yobs" are just > "real people" trying to make a living? What you are saying is SATURATED > with politics. > > > And I'll take that $4/hour. It'll be twice what I make now working 80 > > hours/week, 9 months/year. > > Suppose I do genuine organic agriculture better than you, hire 20 people and > drive you out of business. Does that make me evil? It does bring up > ethical issues of capitalism. But those need to be stated clearly, not > conflated and continually sold as a biological problems. > > Dale > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 06:40:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA16073 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA28275 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:44:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA28200 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0012.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.182.12]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28412; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378AC1E2.52FECADA@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:34:42 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: Gord Hawkes , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Snails References: <000001becb28$3b34d0c0$083325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1662 For snails, get the predator snail. I got rid of that pesty brown snail, years ago, and now even the neighbors (who got my predator snails when they crawled beyond my yard) no longer have the pest snail. Argall Family wrote: > Gord Hawkes wrote > > > We have an apple > grower here in the great Canadian north who has an infestation of snails on > his apple trees. Any thoughts on why and if they need to be controlled? > So far they appear to be causing no damage. > > I have seen no answer to the questions of why and if? I imagine that the > snails are eating something and this may be disadvantageous, or are they > just trying to get into the shade in the Canadian summer? > > I wonder whether the best 'how' answer would not be chickens or ducks. That > in itself would help to deal with the 'why' question, assuming [a] that > there is a better market for eggs and poultry than for snails; and [b] that > the integration of poultry into the manuring/fertility/pest management/grass > and weed management cycles of the farm is better than reliance on molluscs, > even molluscs predating molluscs. > > Dennis > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 06:41:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA16088 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA26972 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:43:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA26873 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0012.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.182.12]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27977; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378A9FA8.F618894A@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:08:40 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Questions on organic livestock standards References: <37813928.954203FF@sprintmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1663 What else kind of thinking could you expect from that man? ---------------- Alex McGregor wrote: > Dale, Dale, Dale, > > Shame on you for saying, "your vision of "organic" agriculture is social > and > political, not biological." If anyone is trying to turn organic (notice- > no > quotes) agriculture into a social, political, or even economic issue, > it's not > farmers and especially not organic farmers. > > Please to note that we are the ones who have preserved the real form of > traditional agriculture through the past 60 years or so. Now that it's > popular, > all the money -hungry yobs want to get a piece of the action and want to > define > organic as a marketing ploy. > > It's all about land stewardship, long term management decisions and > rebuilding > our soil base. Not how many bushels or dollars per acre. As I've said > earlier > and as Greg said in a recent post, "Besides, if the goal was to get rich > > wouldn't we do something besides farming anyhow?" > > Those practicing agriculture do it out of love for the work and because > they > have a special connection and intimacy with the land, plants and > animals, which > is hard for those without the calling find hard to understand. Those who > > practice agribusiness do it for very different reasons, the main one > being the > acquisition of money wealth. > > And I'll take that $4/hour. It'll be twice what I make now working 80 > hours/week, 9 months/year. > > Alex > Poor in the bank, rich in the soul. > > "Wilson, Dale" wrote: > > > Greg, > > > > > Just to let everyone know, I strongly believe the same way as > > > Gene Logsdon on organic production. The standards should be > > > so strong that none of the big companies ever want to join in > > > organic production. > > > > That's an interesting and revealing position. The bottom line in your > > > vision of "organic" agriculture is social and political, not > biological. > > > > IMO, trying to keep the aggressive entrepreneurs out of the game will > be > > counterproductive. If there is money to be made in this business, > > entrepreneurs, small, and maybe large, will be interested. The real > meaning > > of what you are saying is that you want to make the standards > restrictive > > and contrived enough to keep real wages of organic farmers at about > four > > dollars an hour. > > > > Dale > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 06:41:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA16092 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA26708 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:42:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA26651 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 05:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0012.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.182.12]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27881 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 02:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378A90A2.8FDE5CC6@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:04:34 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: (no subject)reason why no replies from me lately Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1664 Just wanted to say--I made same mistakes as before, let too much accumulate, so all messages finally wiped out. Sorry about any unanswered questions, if there were any. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 10:55:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20806 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA26768 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:47:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26759 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:47:26 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@PCSIA.COM Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10763 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:50:45 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:47:22 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.73] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 084b013c ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:47:02 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990715084122.007bade0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 08:41:22 -0500 To: Subject: IGF-1 Distribution in Milk Products Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1665 I have some questions about Insulin-Like Growth Factor 1 (IGF-1) and its distribution into the various products that are made from milk. Specifically, does IGF-1 segregate into the milk fat derived products like cheese or the skim milk fraction? Regardless of the source, natural or r-BST induced, the distribution should be the same. Since it is a protein, can one assume it will concentrate in skim milk, yougurt and other products like powdered milk and be depleted from milk fat derived products like cream and cheese? Thanks, Mike Miller. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 12:59:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA23361 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14994 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:01:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chet.brysonweb.com (IDENT:root@chet.brysonweb.com [209.67.195.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA14901 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (PPPa32-WashingtonB4-4R588.saturn.bbn.com [4.9.6.254]) by chet.brysonweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14614 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:04:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199907151604.MAA14614@chet.brysonweb.com> X-Sender: twilliams@progressivepubs.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:02:36 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Tad Williams Subject: Looking for Ag. Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA14916 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1666 I am looking for books and videos that are related to sustainable agriculture, urban agriculture, and organic food. If anyone has suggestions on websites, bookstores, or publishing companies that would be great. Also, I would like to find books that do not normally appear in the major online bookstores like amazon and barnes n nobles. Thanks. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tad Williams Marketing Director Progressive Publications Ph: (202)238-0010 Fax: (202)238-0011 www.progressivepubs.com P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 14:21:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25084 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08146 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:24:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08125 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.11]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990715172339.XLJN4651@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:23:39 +0000 Message-ID: <378E18F3.9B622359@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:22:59 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: ACSH and mainstream media: misrepresent studies and reassures falseshoods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1667 Both the American Council for Science and Health and some the U.S. mainstream media, I've found, are often misrepresenting studies and continually reassuring falsehoods whenever potentially important research has raised the concerns. I base my opinions on the well-referenced research of the RACHELs and the Environmental Research Foundation, as well as conferences attended, governmental and scientific paper secured. RACHEL's newsletters are well-researched, well-written and well-edited by Peter Montague, Ph.D., founder of the Environmental Research Foundation, a non-profit, unbiased, citizen's advocacy organization. In this and many other RACHEL's newsletters are references to the powerful ACSH, which apparently receives industrial enterprise dollars to defend any potential governmental, medical or judicial action in order to keep the public confused, ignorant, and therefore controlled, so their financial providers may continue unhindered. One only has to read through the publications of ACSH to better understand which industry is providing their funding. In fact, when I read that fluoride was good (despite the release of governmental scientific funding to the contrary) and that eggs and cholesterol does not contribute to heart disease, I wondered if these findings came from ACSH. And, when I carefully read the misinterpretation of the endocrine disruption studies, which ACSH has repeatedly called ''modulation'', I knew that ACSH was making the studies say words that original published studies and the government never used. In my believe, without going into this word by word, it is totally misrepresentation of honest scientists' work, which ACSH has spewed into the media to keep the general public confused and ignorant. A Wall Street Journal editorial, for example, cited that dioxins are natural and created in compost heaps. This is false. Dioxins, furans, PCBs and other toxic unregulated wastes may be found in compost heaps, if sewage (biosolids) or industrial sludge is used. Such wastes may contain cement clinker, which is used to stabilize wastes or as a soil additive. [See: Cement And Kiln Dust Contain Dioxins in RACHEL's #314. The URL for the Environmental Research Foundation is . In my opinion, ''science and health'' are more lip service to the industrial-funded scientists and policy makers at ACSH, the Wall Street Journal, and other propaganda-spewing media, whose real purpose is to protect ''corporate welfare''. BTW, I share this in full, so as not to take anything out of context, unlike what ACSH and their followers so cleverly continues to do. ~Bunny Snow ______________________________________ RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #656 ---June 24, 1999--- HEADLINES: A CAMPAIGN OF REASSURING FALSEHOODS A Campaign of Reassuring Falsehoods Evidently the permanent government in the U.S. now sees dioxin in the food supply as a threat to itself because it has begun a new campaign of reassuring falsehoods, this time in the WALL STREET JOURNAL. We use the term "permanent government" as it was described by Lewis Lapham, editor of HARPER'S MAGAZINE: "The permanent government, a secular oligarchy... comprises the Fortune 500 companies and their attendant lobbyists, the big media and entertainment syndicates, the civil and military services, the larger research universities and law firms. It is this government that hires the country's politicians and sets the terms and conditions under which the country's citizens can exercise their right --God-given but increasingly expensive --to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Obedient to the rule of men, not laws, the permanent government oversees the production of wealth, builds cities, manufactures goods, raises capital, fixes prices, shapes the landscape, and reserves the right to assume debt, poison rivers, cheat the customers, receive the gifts of federal subsidy, and speak to the American people in the language of low motive and base emotion."[1] Lapham distinguishes the "permanent government," which is not elected, from the "provisional government," which is: "The provisional government is the spiritual democracy that comes and goes on the trend of a political season and oversees the production of pageants....Positing a rule of laws instead of men, the provisional government must live within the cage of high-minded principle, addressing its remarks to the imaginary figure known as the informed citizen or the thinking man, a superior being who detests superficial reasoning and quack remedies, never looks at PLAYBOY, remembers the lessons of history, trusts Bill Moyers, worries about political repression in Liberia, reads (and knows himself improved by) the op-ed page of the WALL STREET JOURNAL," Lapham writes. * * * Starting in March, Belgian health authorities discovered dioxin and PCBs in poultry, eggs, beef, pork, milk, butter and even in mayonnaise. Dioxin and PCBs are members of a family of 219 toxic chemicals that can damage the immune system and the hormones of humans and other animals. They can also cause cancer, according to the World Health Organization. [See REHW #636, #653.] The toxicity of dioxins and PCBs are reported in "toxic equivalents" -- a toxicity reporting system that takes into account the particular mixture of dioxins and PCBs that is being measured. In late April, the Dutch Ministry of Health notified the Belgians that they had measured dioxin in two chickens at 958 and 775 parts per trillion toxic equivalents. In Belgium, the allowable limit for dioxin in chicken is 5 ppt toxic equivalents, and in the U.S. the limit is one ppt.[2] Still Belgian authorities said nothing publicly. Then in early June word got out that Belgian foodstuffs were widely contaminated and the European Union and the U.S. clapped a quarantine on foods from Belgium. Other countries around the world immediately followed suit: Maylasia, Myanmar, Uruguay, Thailand, Australia, Brazil, Russia, and China, among others. Suddenly tons of food were pulled from shops throughout Belgium and incinerated, leaving shelves bare. Within two weeks, the incident had cost Belgian farmers, grocers and food exporters an estimated $500 million -- a lot of money in a small country. The problem was traced to 8 liters of oil containing PCBs contaminated with 50 to 80 milligrams of dioxin. The British NEW SCIENTIST says "one theory is" that the toxic oil was taken from an electrical transformer and dumped illegally into a public recycling container for used frying oil.[3] The contaminated oil ended up in an 88-ton (80 metric tonne) batch of fat produced by Verkest, a company located near Ghent, Belgium. The fat was sold to 12 manufacturers of animal feed, who then produced 1760 tons (1600 metric tonnes) of contaminated animal feed. Starting in January, 1999, the feed was sold mainly in Belgium but also in France and the Netherlands. According to CHEMICAL & ENGINEERING NEWS, at a public hearing June 9, a Dutch official said the problem had been solved in his country -- all of the contaminated foods had been eaten. No one is sure how many people were affected because no one is yet sure how widely the contaminated feed was distributed. "Either a few people got a large dose, or many people got a small dose," said Wim Traag from the Dutch State Institute for Quality Control of Agricultural Products. The NEW SCIENTIST quoted Martin van der Berg from the University of Utrecht who calculated that adults who ate chicken and eggs contaminated at 900 ppt would take in 100 times the amount considered "safe" by the World Health Organization. A 3-year-old child eating a single egg contaminated at 900 ppt toxic equivalents would increase his or her total body burden of dioxin equivalents by 20%, van der Berge calculated. He said this would probably not be enough to cause cancer in humans "but could affect neural and cognitive development, the immune system, and thyroid and steroid hormones, especially in unborn and young children," the NEW SCIENTIST reported. Two weeks into the crisis, on June 13, the Belgian government suffered a massive defeat in elections. The next day the WALL STREET JOURNAL announced the debacle this way: "The center-left coalition of Prime Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene suffered a devastating defeat in national elections Sunday, punished for its handling of a food contamination scandal...." Mr. Dehaene promptly resigned. Clearly, the political hazards of a dioxin-contaminated food supply were not lost on the permanent government in the U.S. Less than a week after the initial revelations about dioxin in Belgian foods, the WALL STREET JOURNAL began a campaign of disinformation. On June 7, the JOURNAL had one of its staff reporters, Stephen D. Moore, try to reassure its readers under the headline, "Dioxins' Risk to Humans is Difficult to Appraise."[4] The opening paragraph of the story did not mention that dioxins are toxic; it said dioxins are created by many industrial processes but also "in compost heaps." How could anyone develop a healthy respect for a chemical that originates in a pile of lawn clippings? No one fears the familiar. Very effective propaganda. In the second paragraph, the JOURNAL introduced the idea that dioxins are toxic: "While there are dozens of different dioxins and furans, a closely related family of molecules, only about a half-dozen are toxic." Not true, but effective propaganda nevertheless. Then the real point of Mr. Moore's work unfolds: a re-telling of the story of the 1976 accident at a Hoffman-LaRoche pesticide factory in Seveso, Italy, which spewed dioxin into the surrounding community. "At Seveso, a cloud of chemicals containing dioxin was released into the air and eventually contaminated an area of 15 square kilometers with a population of 37,000 people," the JOURNAL said. And what happened to these 37,000 people? The JOURNAL now quotes Roche, the company that caused the accident: 447 citizens of Seveso "developed skin injuries that healed within a few weeks." And, "Another 193 people, mainly children, developed cases of chloracne, a condition characterized by dark skin blotches, that take months or even years to disappear." And that's the extent of it. In the next sentence, the JOURNAL assures us that dioxin caused no permanent injuries at Seveso: "The Italian government has conducted studies of longer-term effects from the Seveso accident. At least so far, there's no evidence of any significant increase of miscarriages or cancer among local residents." Very reassuring, but completely untrue. Actually, the Italian government's chief researcher, Pier Alberto Bertazzi, has published a series of studies in peer-reviewed journals, beginning in 1993, showing that many people exposed to dioxins at Seveso have suffered a variety of serious long-term effects including increased incidence of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, including cancers of the stomach and rectum, leukemias (cancer of the blood- forming cells), Hodgkin's disease, and soft tissue sarcomas.[5]-8 Now the JOURNAL returns to the theme that dioxins are natural: "Dioxins also can come from natural sources. One contamination case in the U.S. a few years ago resulted from the use of clay as a binder in chicken feed. American regulators eventually traced the contaminated clay to a quarry in the state of Arkansas and established that the source of the dioxins was prehistoric." [See REHW #555.] In actual fact, American regulators did no such thing -- they never did figure out where that dioxin came from -- but this is unvarnished propaganda, and effective as such. Evidently not satisfied with this series of misrepresentations, the WALL STREET JOURNAL on June 21 turned over its editorial page to Elizabeth Whelan, president of the American Council on Science and Health, a scheme-tank supported by the chemical industry. Ms. Whelan is, frankly, one of the crudest and most shameless dissemblers of our time. She launched her career as lapdog of the permanent government by falsifying the history of Alar, the cancer-causing farm chemical that used to be found in apple juice intended for babies in the U.S., before the apple industry came to its senses and swore off the poison in 1989. [See REHW #530-535.] In the WALL STREET JOURNAL June 21, Ms. Whelan assured her readers that ''there was no evidence" of "health-threatening toxic materials" in Belgian food. Oh? This is because, she says, "no one has ever died or become chronically ill due to environmental exposure [to dioxin]." Oh? The problem in Belgium is Belgium's "unnnecessarily stringent laws," Ms. Whelan asserts. The dioxin problem in Belgium was imaginary, Ms. Whelan assures us. It "can be explained as an example of hysterical contagion," Ms. Whelan asserts. She then waxes academic, quoting a college professor who says mass hysterias have been recorded throughout European history. On this basis, Ms. Whelan concludes that the fear of dioxin in Belgium is just like the Alar episode in the U.S. in 1989 -- a make-believe problem. It is interesting to us that the permanent government has to rely on such crude misrepresentations to reassure its loyal followers in the business community (those who read the op-ed page of the WALL STREET JOURNAL and know themselves improved by it). To us it means that the anti-dioxin campaign being conducted by grass-roots activists in the U.S. [see REHW #479] is having a good effect. No doubt the permanent government has reason to be nervous: they have contaminated the U.S. food supply with dangerous levels of dioxins and, as the Bible says, the truth will set people free. [See REHW #414, #463, #636.] --Peter Montague(National Writers Union, UAW Local 1981/AFL-CIO) ===== [1] Lewis H. Lapham, "Lights, Camera, Democracy!" HARPER'S MAGAZINE August 1996, pgs. 33-38, quoted with permission. [2] Bette Hileman, "Belgium has a problem: Dioxin-tainted food," CHEMICAL & ENGINEERING NEWS June 14, 1999, pg. 9. [3] Debora MacKenzie, "Recipe for disaster," NEW SCIENTIST No. 2190 (June 12, 1999), pg. 4. [4] Craig R. Whitney, "Food Scandal Adds to Belgium's Image of Disarray," NEW YORK TIMES June 9, 1999, pg. A4. [5] Pier Alberto Bertazzi and others, "Cancer Incidence in a Population Accidentally Exposed to 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-PARA-dioxin," EPIDEMIOLOGY Vol. 4 (September, 1993), pgs. 398-406. [6] P.A. Bertazzi, "The Seveso studies on early and long-term effects of dioxin exposure: a review," ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVES Vol. 106 Supplement 2 (April 1998), pgs. 625-633. [7] P.A. Bertazzi and others, "Dioxin exposure and cancer risk: a 15- year mortality study after the 'Seveso accident,'" EPIDEMIOLOGY Vol. 8, No. 6 (November 1997), pgs. 646-652. [8] A.C. Pesatori and others, "Dioxin exposure and non-malignant health effects: a mortality study," OCCUPATIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL MEDICINE Vol. 55, No. 2 (February 1998), pgs. 126-131. Descriptor terms: dioxin; food safety; belgium; ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 14:33:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25264 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA16507 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:37:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA16489 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.34] (gl-ppp14.hevanet.com [204.119.60.34]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01558; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907151737.KAA01558@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:32:18 -0700 Subject: FW: Measuring Air Movement a Breeze With FANS From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1668 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Measuring Air Movement a Breeze With FANS Date: Thu, Jul 15, 1999, 6:37 AM STORY LEAD: In Barns, Measuring Air Movement Is a Breeze With FANS ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Hank Becker, (301) 504-1624, hbecker@asrr.arsusda.gov July 15, 1999 ---------- Ventilation fans in animal barns and poultry houses are critical for delivering fresh air and removing heat, moisture and dust. But measuring a fan's performance has been difficult. So, Agricultural Research Service scientists designed and built FANS, short for "fan assessment numeration system." FANS combines a portable anemometer--an instrument to measure wind speed--with a computer and software to record and analyze measurements. This system helps solve measurement problems that until now had not been technically feasible to fix. Traditional techniques are cumbersome, inaccurate by 8 to 10 percent, and take 30 to 45 minutes. The anemometer in the FANS system can measure air-volume flow with 99 percent accuracy in less than 4 minutes, according to John Simmons and colleagues at ARS' Poultry Research Unit in Mississippi State, Miss. ARS is USDA's chief research agency. Simmons and ARS colleagues assembled and calibrated the anemometer in cooperation with the Aerospace Engineering Department at Mississippi State University. It was validated by a major fan manufacturer in Bremen, Ala. FANS can pinpoint the best location for ventilation fans. For example, fans placed at the end of a long poultry house are more efficient than fans along the side walls at the end. The scientists have used FANS to study effects of fan shutters, exhaust cones, belt guards and propeller deterioration. They plan studies of light baffles, fan belt condition, dust and static pressure. While primarily a research tool, FANS has many applications. It saved an egg company more than $200,000. The company had just installed belt guards on 1,100 fans in 115 poultry houses to protect employees from possible hand injuries. FANS showed that ventilation remained adequate with the guards installed; the company did not have to buy additional fans. A story about FANS appears in the July Agricultural Research magazine and on the Internet at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jul99/fans0799.htm ---------- Scientific contact: John Simmons, ARS Poultry Research Unit, Mississippi State, Miss. phone (662) 320-7480, fax (662) 323-3535, jsimmons@ra.msstate.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 14:37:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25313 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA15304 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:32:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15231 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.11]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990715173205.XOXS4651@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:32:05 +0000 Message-ID: <378E1AED.F5DDB38E@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:31:25 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: how company policy begins.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1669 A friend in New Zealand received this as a joke, but we both agree that it seems to ''encapsulate some wisdom.'' The information below was in his email to me. It is not of my writing. ~Bunny Snow ________________________________ Start with a cage containing five monkeys. In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result - all the monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it. Now, Turn off the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The New monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous Newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four monkeys that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? Because that's the way it's always been around here. And that's how company policy begins.... To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 14:50:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25894 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA00749 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:02:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lserve.eharvest.com ([216.38.10.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00708 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by LSERVE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <38R4HAA0>; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:02:29 -0400 Message-ID: <21EE44311E24D31193F7009027731A80818C@LSERVE> From: Chris Lanteigne To: "'Tad Williams'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Looking for Ag. Books Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:02:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1670 Ted, We have many agriculture books at this address. Check it out! http://www.eHARVEST.com/books/ Take care, Chris Lanteigne http://www.eHARVEST.com/ Agriculture Starts Here! chrisL@eharvest.com -----Original Message----- From: Tad Williams [mailto:twilliams@progressivepubs.com] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:03 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Looking for Ag. Books I am looking for books and videos that are related to sustainable agriculture, urban agriculture, and organic food. If anyone has suggestions on websites, bookstores, or publishing companies that would be great. Also, I would like to find books that do not normally appear in the major online bookstores like amazon and barnes n nobles. Thanks. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tad Williams Marketing Director Progressive Publications Ph: (202)238-0010 Fax: (202)238-0011 www.progressivepubs.com P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 17:03:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01293 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA19772 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:07:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19667 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.105.89.158] (ppp-207-105-89-158.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.105.89.158]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14233 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:56:40 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Columnaris in white bass/aquaculture connection Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1671 Howdy, all-- Thought you aquaculture watchers might be interested in this. For the aquaculture connection, see the moderator's note at the end. pax m ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ COLUMNARIS, WHITE BASS - USA (KANSAS) ************************************* A ProMED-mail post Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 23:21:00 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: The Wichita Eagle, 9 Jul 1999 [edited] Columnaris disease, due to _Flavobacterium columnare_, has killed an estimated 48,000 white bass at Melvern Reservoir. Several weeks ago, some 6,000 white bass also fell victim to columnaris disease at Pomona Reservoir. Leonard Jirak, district fisheries biologist for Melvern and Pomona, said that the bacteria is always present in reservoirs, adding that it increases and decreases in density for a variety of reasons that include water temperature, decomposing nutrients, sunlight and lack of oxygen. Those and other factors can trigger an outbreak. The bacteria affects the gill filaments of fish and white bass -- a schooling fish -- appear to be more susceptible based on the species-specific fish kills at Melvern and Pomona, and the 80,000 white bass that died at Cheney Reservoir in 1998. Jirak speculates that the fish kill at Melvern has run its course, but he's not counting all his fish until they've surfaced. "There were more dead ones two days ago than there were today and that tells me that it's past its peak, but it's not done," Jirak said. Steve Adams is the fish kill coordinator for Wildlife and Parks. From his perspective, it's too early to make a call on just what may have triggered the increase in the bacteria. "Logically, you would think that there's a stress that occurs, whether it's a sudden rise in temperature or an inflow of something," Adams said. "I talked with the folks at KDHE (Kansas Department of Health and Environment) and at this point I'm not aware of any unusual water quality results." Adams said that scientific studies of white bass have shown the species to be more susceptible to gill-related diseases. "It's not unusual for it to happen," Adams said. "It's a shame, but at this point we've just got to let it run it's course." [Byline: Steve Harper] - -- ProMED-mail [Columnaris disease is the second leading cause of mortality in pond raised catfish in the SE USA. It is second only to enteric septicaemia of catfish, caused by _Edwardsiella ictaluri_. Most species of fish are susceptible to columnaris disease following some type of environmental stress and when water temperatures are in the upper part of their preferred temperature range. The disease commonly occurs in channel catfish when the water temperatures are in the range of 25'C to 32'C or 77'F to 90'F in the spring, summer & fall. Schooling species of fish, like white bass, are especially susceptible. Fish with this disease usually have yellowish-brown lesions on their gills. These lesions result in the erosion of the gills by protein- and cartilage-degrading enzymes produced by the bacteria. Skin ("saddleback") lesions can be noted encircling the body of fingerlings; as well as lesions inside the fish's mouth. _F. columnare_ can also be isolated from internal organs (for example in a study in Mississippi, 40% of fish with external lesions had isolations from internal organs) but the significance is uncertain. Swelling of the posterior kidney has been noted. - MHJ] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 17:14:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01543 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:14:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA19807 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:07:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19697 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.105.89.158] (ppp-207-105-89-158.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.105.89.158]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14243 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:59:55 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Salamander death outbreak Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1672 Howdy, all-- Thought you might be interested in this. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SALAMANDER DIE-OFF - USA (UTAH) ******************************* A ProMED-mail post Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 22:42:02 -0400 To: ProMED-mail From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: The Salt Lake Tribune, 10 Jul 1999 The mysterious death last fall of at least 200 tiger salamanders in Desolation Lake east of Salt Lake City has been linked to a continent-wide disease infecting these lizard-like creatures. Similar die-offs of tiger salamanders have been reported in Maine, North Dakota, Saskatchewan and Arizona, according to a study by the National Wildlife Health Center -- a federal agency based in Madison, Wis. All of these incidents were caused by an infection triggered by a virus in the family known as "iridovirus," the researchers found. An international team of scientists is preparing a coordinated research proposal to figure out what is triggering the disease outbreaks in frogs as well as salamanders. "It is more than likely that multiple factors could be working on these animals," said James P. Collins, a biologist at Arizona State University who has been studying the spread of iridovirus in Arizona salamanders. He suspects most of the causes will be traced back to environmental problems caused by humans. Cynthia Carey, a researcher at the University of Colorado, said a goal of the next round of research will be determining whether die-offs are a normal part of the salamanders' life cycle. "What we'll find out is whether this is something unusual we need to be alarmed about, or if it is part of the natural history of salamanders," she said. A "health alert" issued in October by the National Wildlife Health Center urged wildlife officials to report all large die-offs of salamanders to help scientists trace the spread of the disease. "Whether the recently identified salamander disease is related to global amphibian declines is still unknown," stressed the alert. "Salamander die-offs have been reported previously, but scientists are not sure how common such events may be." Tiger salamanders, known to scientists as _Ambystoma tigrinum_, are found throughout much of North America. The subspecies found in Utah, Arizona and parts of western New Mexico and western Colorado is called the Arizona tiger salamander. Adults average 6 to 8 inches in length. They usually are dark black or gray with light yellow spots or bars. They are very common in Utah, said Gloria Wurst, a professor of zoology at Weber State University who has studied tiger salamanders in the Monte Cristo area east of Ogden since 1990. Salamanders can be found in most small lakes and ponds that don't have fish. That's because fish love to eat salamanders. Salamanders also readily colonize the stock ponds built for sheep and cattle. Wurst has seen no problems with the salamanders at her study sites but says the number of animals in a small pond near the Snowbasin Ski Area appears to be declining as a result of habitat disruption. Tiger salamanders begin their lives by hatching from eggs in a pond in the late spring or early summer. The larvae, which have gills and fins, live in the pond anywhere from 10 weeks to a year. Most then transform into lizard-like adults that crawl out of the water and spend the fall and winter hidden under logs and in burrows on dry land. Adult salamanders return to the pond the next spring to breed and lay eggs. The cycle was disrupted by disease last fall at Desolation Lake. Hikers visiting this popular little lake in Big Cottonwood Canyon noticed dead and dying salamanders along the shoreline and notified federal biologists. "We went up on Sept. 1 and there were hundreds of carcasses," recalled Rex Sohn, a wildlife technician for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. "We didn't do an adequate count, but I would `guestimate' that we saw 200 to 300 dead salamanders." Eight of the sick animals were captured and sent to a federal health center in Madison, Wis., where the viral infection was diagnosed. "Is it a disease that has been around a long time?" asked Sohn. "Has it become more of a concern because of more human activity in back country? Is there more human interest in wildlife now so it is being reported? Or is it a new disease? We don't know." No one has checked the lake this year, but it is assumed that some of the adults survived and there still are salamanders in the lake. Last year's die-off is puny compared to the 26,000 dead salamanders that Peter Hovingh counted at Desolation Lake in 1985. A scientific paper he and Kathleen Muriel Worthylake published in the Great Basin Naturalist in 1989 found clear evidence of a bacterial infection in those dying salamanders. Researchers now wonder whether the animals first were infected by the iridovirus and then attacked by the bacteria. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As crude a weapon as the cave man's club, the chemical barrage has been hurled against the fabric of life. --Rachel Carson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 18:09:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05055 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA27118 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:13:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA27024 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA16202 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3Z7H2LQH>; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:07:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "'sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: usda-ers report on sustainable agriculture Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:07:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1673 sanet-ers might be interested in the research report below from usda-ers . . . for more information or to download a copy, see http://www.econ.ag.gov/epubs/pdf/aib752/ cheers, craig Green Technologies for a More Sustainable Agriculture. By James Hrubovcak, Utpal Vasavada, and Joseph Aldy. Resource Economics Division, Economic Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture. Agriculture Informaiton Bulletin No. 752. Abstract For U.S. agriculture to continue along a sustainable path of economic development, further production increases must be generated by technologies that are both profitable and more environmentally benign. In this context, we assess the role of these "green" or sustainable technologies in steering agriculture along a more sustainable path. However, the lack of markets for the environmental attributes associated with green technologies can limit their development. In addition, simply making a technology available does not mean it will be adopted. Experience with green technologies such as conservation tillage, integrated pest management, enhanced nutrient management, and precision agriculture demonstrates that even when technologies are profitable, barriers to adopting new practices can limit their effectiveness. Keywords: Sustainable agriculture, natural capital, nonrenewable resources, renewable resources, environmental services, green technology, integrated pest management, conservation tillage, enhanced nutrient management, precision agriculture craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 18:09:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05061 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA27505 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:14:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail05.rapidsite.net (mail05.rapidsite.net [207.158.192.42]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA27425 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.echonet.org (209.238.138.232) by mail05.rapidsite.net (RS ver 1.0.5) with SMTP id 03958; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <378C7432@echonet.org> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:13:33 -0400 From: dcox To: "twilliams@progressivepubs.com" , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00100841, 00102132 Subject: RE: Looking for Ag. Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.50 X-Loop-Detect: 1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA27434 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1674 ECHO is opening their web bookstore tomorrow (7-16-99). Initially there will be only about 50 titles and most of those are related to sustainable agriculture in the tropics. http://www.echonet.org ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: Looking for Ag. Books Author: twilliams@progressivepubs.com Date: 7/15/99 12:02 PM I am looking for books and videos that are related to sustainable agriculture, urban agriculture, and organic food. If anyone has suggestions on websites, bookstores, or publishing companies that would be great. Also, I would like to find books that do not normally appear in the major online bookstores like amazon and barnes n nobles. Thanks. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tad Williams Marketing Director Progressive Publications Ph: (202)238-0010 Fax: (202)238-0011 www.progressivepubs.com P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 18:17:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA05177 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08316 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:35:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA08265 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id QAA09800; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:35:17 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma007378; Thu, 15 Jul 99 16:32:37 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3W8MZX3Y>; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:32:36 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE1F@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: SANET-mg Cc: "'Misha'" Subject: RE: Who is ACSH? & Why are they discrediting claims of certain sy nethetic chemicals endangering the endocrine systems of human? Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:32:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1675 Hi Misha, >> I took a random sample of about twenty of the 250 ACSH board >> members and looked up their publications. More than half have >> published extensively in peer-reviewed journals.... > But even taking you at your word, what you're telling us is that 11 > of the 250 ACSH board members, or 4 percent, have published > extensively in peer-reviewed journals and appear to be productive.. No, the best estimate (given the tiny bit of time I'm willing to spend on this) is that around half of the board (that is 125 people) appear to be productive scientists. The rest are mainly physicians. > I'm not sure what conclusions you're drawing from this. Bunny asked "who is the ACSH?" I found that the ACSH board is made up of a large number of people possessing, as far as I can tell, appropriate technical expertise. >> That doesn't mean their findings are wrong. > Right and wrong aren't the point. The formulation and shaping of > hypotheses, of testing mechanisms, of interpretation, of > presentation, and of review is what I saw being questioned. Not > abstract categories of ultimate right and wrong. Perhaps I should have chosen more precise words. By "right versus wrong" I just meant true versus false. The central point here is whether the finding of the report is true (are environmental estrogens really a negligible risk as the report claims?) > Besides, everyone knows that scientists can't be wrong. Misha, this is an important issue. There is so much propaganda flying around, that it takes some effort to sift out the reliable information. People should read the report, perhaps read some of the papers cited, and decide for themselves. > Turn these questions/issues over--at the same level of funding--to a > public interest research program designed and overseen by citizens. Isn't that a public University? > Let citizens be part of the research teams, equal and respected > members, and let them also generate not only the hypotheses but the > experimental methods and designs to test them... I don't think most people have the time or expertise to do that. > Let them work with researchers on the narrow-scope technical stuff > that researchers know best... But let citizens contribute the parts > that they know best--the whole-systems perspectives. Quantifying toxicological risk from environmental endocrine modulators strikes me as rather narrow and technical. The systems perspective that I think you are advocating (encompassing social, economic, agricultural and industrial policy) needs sober, technical estimates of risk as input. Otherwise the community might waste it's effort solving non-problems. > Well, minus the funding levels and insulation from critique to which > many corporate and university scientists are accustomed. I agree that scientists should be less insulated. And I agree that many grants are too large and waste public money. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 15 23:49:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA11606 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA27597 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:55:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.a001.sprintmail.com (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA27593 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP097.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.57]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19654 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378E9FBE.9EE5A081@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:58:06 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Looking for Ag. Books References: <199907151604.MAA14614@chet.brysonweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1676 Tad, Acres USA Publishes a monthly magazine and sells books- mostly published by Acres. They range from books by agricultural consultants to those working with energy and crystals. Their web address is: http://www.acresusa.com/ Call their 800 number to get a book catalog. Alex Tad Williams wrote: > I am looking for books and videos that are related to sustainable > agriculture, urban agriculture, and organic food. If anyone has suggestions > on websites, bookstores, or publishing companies that would be great. Also, > I would like to find books that do not normally appear in the major online > bookstores like amazon and barnes n nobles. Thanks. > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > Tad Williams > Marketing Director > Progressive Publications Ph: (202)238-0010 Fax: (202)238-0011 > www.progressivepubs.com > P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 02:13:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA12668 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 02:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA15459 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:27:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA15362 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:27:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Cntraryfmr@aol.com Received: from Cntraryfmr@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id fPESa06136 (14395); Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6d7cab39.24c017c1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:06:09 EDT Subject: Kelp Powder To: wellpet@listservice.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Holistic-Goats@onelist.com, DairyGoats@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 216 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1677 Hello, I had great success finding Diatomaceous Earth with your help, so I am wondering if anyone could recommend an online source for Kelp powder or meal as well as Flax seed meal or whole flax seeds in bulk. Thanks Marcus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 07:24:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA14649 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA23524 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:39:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA23456 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0363.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.108]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18779; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378EDDDD.108FB5EC@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:23:09 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Batalden CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: References: <9907131732.AA08969@rrc2.rrcnet.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1678 If you don't get a satisfactory answer, do you want me to look it up in the UPDATE? ================= Phil Batalden wrote: > Can anyone help with with my vegetable garden vine problem. > My squash and pumpkin have gotten some type of worm or bore in the vine and > as a result my vines are dying. > One source told me to cut open the vine; which I did; and found a worm; to > put sevin on them. > As I am in transition to become a certified organic producer I cannot use > this product. Does anyone know how I can control this pest before and after > it gets into the vine? > Thanks, > Deb > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 07:24:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA14653 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA23684 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:40:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA23565 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:39:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0363.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.108]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18952; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378EEA9D.C0EE03B4@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:17:33 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Lanteigne CC: "'Tad Williams'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Looking for Ag. Books References: <21EE44311E24D31193F7009027731A80818C@LSERVE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1679 Wow! I forgot, We are not supposed to try to sell our own stuff here, so I should not have mentioned the Primer UPDATE.Too bad, I have other books on organic farming that you might have liked to see, but you could always look up at the library, in Books in Print, that lists by author, source, topic. Chris Lanteigne wrote: > Ted, > We have many agriculture books at this address. Check it out! > http://www.eHARVEST.com/books/ > > Take care, > > Chris Lanteigne > http://www.eHARVEST.com/ Agriculture Starts Here! > chrisL@eharvest.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tad Williams [mailto:twilliams@progressivepubs.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 12:03 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Looking for Ag. Books > > I am looking for books and videos that are related to sustainable > agriculture, urban agriculture, and organic food. If anyone has suggestions > on websites, bookstores, or publishing companies that would be great. Also, > I would like to find books that do not normally appear in the major online > bookstores like amazon and barnes n nobles. Thanks. > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > Tad Williams > Marketing Director > Progressive Publications Ph: (202)238-0010 Fax: (202)238-0011 > www.progressivepubs.com > P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 07:32:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA14702 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA23543 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:39:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA23497 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0363.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.108]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18880; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378EE67E.E527CBA0@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:59:58 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tad Williams CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Looking for Ag. Books References: <199907151604.MAA14614@chet.brysonweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1680 OK, you asked for it, specifically? My own book, obtainable from me only, the most comprehensive in the world on the subject, is Organic Method Primer UPDATE, $200. Has 16 chapters, from soil conditioning through marketing. 700 pp. Electron Mic photos and sketches. 100 pp very detailed, cross-referenced index. VERY easy reading, Bible English, simple and plain and straightforward. ==================== Tad Williams wrote: > I am looking for books and videos that are related to sustainable > agriculture, urban agriculture, and organic food. If anyone has suggestions > on websites, bookstores, or publishing companies that would be great. Also, > I would like to find books that do not normally appear in the major online > bookstores like amazon and barnes n nobles. Thanks. > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > Tad Williams > Marketing Director > Progressive Publications Ph: (202)238-0010 Fax: (202)238-0011 > www.progressivepubs.com > P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 08:05:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15408 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA23651 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:40:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA23530 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 04:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0363.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.108]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18903; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <378EE98C.9508A88A@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:13:00 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net CC: SANET-mg Subject: Re: ACSH and mainstream media: misrepresent studies and reassures falseshoods References: <378E18F3.9B622359@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1681 Why should we worry about cancer-causing items? Already half,yes 50 %--1 in 2 persons--in US have or will have cancer---already--so why worry? Just let every other person you know have cancer--will anyway--why worry? It is just part of life in the US, the greatest country in the world--never mind the cancer statistics--we have liberty. Yep, you have all the rights and liberties in the world, to get cancer if you want it. Bunny Snow wrote: > Both the American Council for Science and Health and some the U.S. > mainstream media, I've found, are often misrepresenting studies and > continually reassuring falsehoods whenever potentially important > research has raised the concerns. I base my opinions on the > well-referenced research of the RACHELs and the Environmental Research > Foundation, as well as conferences attended, governmental and scientific > paper secured. > > RACHEL's newsletters are well-researched, well-written and well-edited > by Peter Montague, Ph.D., founder of the Environmental Research > Foundation, a non-profit, unbiased, citizen's advocacy organization. In > this and many other RACHEL's newsletters are references to the powerful > ACSH, which apparently receives industrial enterprise dollars to defend > any potential governmental, medical or judicial action in order to keep > the public confused, ignorant, and therefore controlled, so their > financial providers may continue unhindered. > > One only has to read through the publications of ACSH to better > understand which industry is providing their funding. In fact, when I > read that fluoride was good (despite the release of governmental > scientific funding to the contrary) and that eggs and cholesterol does > not contribute to heart disease, I wondered if these findings came from > ACSH. And, when I carefully read the misinterpretation of the endocrine > disruption studies, which ACSH has repeatedly called ''modulation'', I > knew that ACSH was making the studies say words that original published > studies and the government never used. In my believe, without going > into this word by word, it is totally misrepresentation of honest > scientists' work, which ACSH has spewed into the media to keep the > general public confused and ignorant. > > A Wall Street Journal editorial, for example, cited that dioxins are > natural and created in compost heaps. This is false. Dioxins, furans, > PCBs and other toxic unregulated wastes may be found in compost heaps, > if sewage (biosolids) or industrial sludge is used. Such wastes may > contain cement clinker, which is used to stabilize wastes or as a soil > additive. [See: Cement And Kiln Dust Contain Dioxins in RACHEL's #314. > The URL for the Environmental Research Foundation is > . > > In my opinion, ''science and health'' are more lip service to the > industrial-funded scientists and policy makers at ACSH, the Wall Street > Journal, and other propaganda-spewing media, whose real purpose is to > protect ''corporate welfare''. > > BTW, I share this in full, so as not to take anything out of context, > unlike what ACSH and their followers so cleverly continues to do. > ~Bunny Snow > ______________________________________ > > RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #656 > ---June 24, 1999--- > HEADLINES: > A CAMPAIGN OF REASSURING FALSEHOODS > > A Campaign of Reassuring Falsehoods > > Evidently the permanent government in the U.S. now sees dioxin in the > food supply as a threat to itself because it has begun a new campaign of > reassuring falsehoods, this time in the WALL STREET JOURNAL. We use the > term "permanent government" as it was described by Lewis Lapham, editor > of > HARPER'S MAGAZINE: > > "The permanent government, a secular oligarchy... comprises the Fortune > 500 companies and their attendant lobbyists, the big media and > entertainment syndicates, the civil and military services, the larger > research universities and law firms. It is this government that hires > the country's politicians and sets the terms and conditions under which > the country's citizens can exercise their right --God-given but > increasingly expensive --to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. > Obedient to the rule of men, not laws, the permanent government oversees > the production of wealth, builds cities, manufactures goods, raises > capital, fixes prices, shapes the landscape, and reserves the right to > assume debt, poison rivers, cheat the customers, receive the gifts of > federal subsidy, and speak to the American people in the language of low > motive and base emotion."[1] > > Lapham distinguishes the "permanent government," which is not elected, > from the "provisional government," which is: > > "The provisional government is the spiritual democracy that comes and > goes on the trend of a political season and oversees the production of > pageants....Positing a rule of laws instead of men, the provisional > government must live within the cage of high-minded principle, > addressing its remarks to the imaginary figure known as the informed > citizen or the thinking man, a superior being who detests > superficial reasoning and quack remedies, never looks at PLAYBOY, > remembers the lessons of history, trusts Bill Moyers, worries about > political repression in Liberia, reads (and knows himself improved by) > the op-ed page of the WALL STREET JOURNAL," Lapham writes. > > * * * > > Starting in March, Belgian health authorities discovered dioxin and PCBs > in poultry, eggs, beef, pork, milk, butter and even in mayonnaise. > Dioxin and PCBs are members of a family of 219 toxic chemicals that can > damage the immune system and the hormones of humans and other animals. > They can also cause cancer, according to the World Health Organization. > [See REHW #636, #653.] The toxicity of dioxins and PCBs are reported in > "toxic equivalents" -- a toxicity reporting system that takes into > account the particular mixture of dioxins and PCBs that is being > measured. > > In late April, the Dutch Ministry of Health notified the Belgians that > they had measured dioxin in two chickens at 958 and 775 parts per > trillion toxic equivalents. In Belgium, the allowable limit for dioxin > in chicken is 5 ppt toxic equivalents, and in the U.S. the limit is one > ppt.[2] > > Still Belgian authorities said nothing publicly. Then in early June word > got out that Belgian foodstuffs were widely contaminated and the > European Union and the U.S. clapped a quarantine on foods from Belgium. > Other countries around the world immediately followed suit: Maylasia, > Myanmar, Uruguay, Thailand, Australia, Brazil, Russia, and China, among > others. Suddenly tons of food were pulled from shops throughout Belgium > and incinerated, leaving shelves bare. Within two weeks, the incident > had cost Belgian farmers, grocers and food exporters an estimated $500 > million -- a lot of money in a small country. > > The problem was traced to 8 liters of oil containing PCBs contaminated > with 50 to 80 milligrams of dioxin. The British NEW SCIENTIST says "one > theory is" that the toxic oil was taken from an electrical transformer > and dumped illegally into a public recycling container for used frying > oil.[3] The contaminated oil ended up in an 88-ton (80 metric tonne) > batch of fat produced by Verkest, a company located near Ghent, Belgium. > The fat was sold to 12 manufacturers of animal feed, who then produced > 1760 tons (1600 metric tonnes) of contaminated animal feed. Starting in > January, 1999, the feed was sold mainly in Belgium but also in France > and the Netherlands. > > According to CHEMICAL & ENGINEERING NEWS, at a public hearing June 9, a > Dutch official said the problem had been solved in his country -- all of > the contaminated foods had been eaten. No one is sure how many people > were affected because no one is yet sure how widely the contaminated > feed was distributed. "Either a few people got a large dose, or many > people got a small dose," said Wim Traag from the Dutch State Institute > for Quality Control of Agricultural Products. > > The NEW SCIENTIST quoted Martin van der Berg from the University of > Utrecht who calculated that adults who ate chicken and eggs contaminated > at 900 ppt would take in 100 times the amount considered "safe" by the > World Health Organization. > > A 3-year-old child eating a single egg contaminated at 900 ppt toxic > equivalents would increase his or her total body burden of dioxin > equivalents by 20%, van der Berge calculated. He said this would > probably not be enough to cause cancer in humans "but could affect > neural and cognitive development, the immune system, and thyroid and > steroid hormones, especially in unborn and young children," > the NEW SCIENTIST reported. > > Two weeks into the crisis, on June 13, the Belgian government suffered a > massive defeat in elections. The next day the WALL STREET JOURNAL > announced the debacle this way: "The center-left coalition of Prime > Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene suffered a devastating defeat in national > elections Sunday, punished for its handling of a food contamination > scandal...." Mr. Dehaene promptly resigned. > > Clearly, the political hazards of a dioxin-contaminated food supply were > not lost on the permanent government in the U.S. Less than a week after > the initial revelations about dioxin in Belgian foods, the WALL STREET > JOURNAL began a campaign of disinformation. > > On June 7, the JOURNAL had one of its staff reporters, Stephen D. Moore, > try to reassure its readers under the headline, "Dioxins' Risk to Humans > is Difficult to Appraise."[4] > > The opening paragraph of the story did not mention that dioxins are > toxic; it said dioxins are created by many industrial processes but also > "in compost heaps." How could anyone develop a healthy respect for a > chemical that originates in a pile of lawn clippings? No one fears the > familiar. Very effective propaganda. > > In the second paragraph, the JOURNAL introduced the idea that dioxins > are toxic: "While there are dozens of different dioxins and furans, a > closely related family of molecules, only about a half-dozen are toxic." > Not true, but effective propaganda nevertheless. > > Then the real point of Mr. Moore's work unfolds: a re-telling of the > story of the 1976 accident at a Hoffman-LaRoche pesticide factory in > Seveso, Italy, which spewed dioxin into the surrounding community. "At > Seveso, a cloud of chemicals containing dioxin was released into the air > and eventually contaminated an area of 15 square kilometers with a > population of 37,000 people," the JOURNAL said. > > And what happened to these 37,000 people? The JOURNAL now quotes Roche, > the company that caused the accident: 447 citizens of Seveso "developed > skin injuries that healed within a few weeks." And, "Another 193 people, > mainly children, developed cases of chloracne, a condition characterized > by dark skin blotches, that take months or even years to disappear." And > that's the extent of it. In the next sentence, the JOURNAL assures us > that dioxin caused no permanent injuries at Seveso: "The Italian > government has conducted studies of longer-term effects from the Seveso > accident. At least so far, there's no evidence of any significant > increase of miscarriages or cancer among local residents." Very > reassuring, but completely untrue. > > Actually, the Italian government's chief researcher, Pier Alberto > Bertazzi, has published a series of studies in peer-reviewed journals, > beginning in 1993, showing that many people exposed to dioxins at Seveso > have suffered a variety of serious long-term effects including increased > incidence of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, including cancers of > the stomach and rectum, leukemias (cancer of the blood- forming > cells), Hodgkin's disease, and soft tissue sarcomas.[5]-8 > > Now the JOURNAL returns to the theme that dioxins are natural: "Dioxins > also can come from natural sources. One contamination case in the U.S. a > few years ago resulted from the use of clay as a binder in chicken > feed. American regulators eventually traced the contaminated clay to a > quarry in the state of Arkansas and established that the source of the > dioxins was prehistoric." [See REHW #555.] In actual fact, American > regulators did no such thing -- they never did figure out where that > dioxin came from -- but this is unvarnished propaganda, and effective as > such. > > Evidently not satisfied with this series of misrepresentations, the WALL > STREET JOURNAL on June 21 turned over its editorial page to Elizabeth > Whelan, president of the American Council on Science and Health, a > scheme-tank supported by the chemical industry. Ms. Whelan is, frankly, > one of the crudest and most shameless dissemblers of our time. She > launched her career as lapdog of the permanent government by falsifying > the history of Alar, the cancer-causing farm chemical that used to be > found in apple juice intended for babies in the U.S., before the apple > industry came to its senses and swore off the poison in 1989. [See REHW > #530-535.] > > In the WALL STREET JOURNAL June 21, Ms. Whelan assured her readers that > ''there was no evidence" of "health-threatening toxic materials" in > Belgian food. Oh? This is because, she says, "no one has ever died or > become chronically ill due to environmental exposure [to dioxin]." Oh? > The problem in Belgium is Belgium's "unnnecessarily stringent laws," Ms. > Whelan asserts. > > The dioxin problem in Belgium was imaginary, Ms. Whelan assures us. It > "can be explained as an example of hysterical contagion," Ms. Whelan > asserts. She then waxes academic, quoting a college professor who says > mass hysterias have been recorded throughout European history. On this > basis, Ms. Whelan concludes that the fear of dioxin in Belgium is just > like the Alar episode in the U.S. in 1989 -- a make-believe problem. > > It is interesting to us that the permanent government has to rely on > such crude misrepresentations to reassure its loyal followers in the > business community (those who read the op-ed page of the WALL STREET > JOURNAL and know themselves improved by it). To us it means that the > anti-dioxin campaign being conducted by grass-roots activists in the > U.S. [see REHW #479] is having a good effect. No doubt the permanent > government has reason to be nervous: they have contaminated the U.S. > food supply with dangerous levels of dioxins and, as the Bible says, the > truth will set people free. [See REHW #414, #463, #636.] > > --Peter Montague(National Writers Union, > UAW Local 1981/AFL-CIO) > > ===== > > [1] Lewis H. Lapham, "Lights, Camera, Democracy!" HARPER'S MAGAZINE > August 1996, pgs. 33-38, quoted with permission. > > [2] Bette Hileman, "Belgium has a problem: Dioxin-tainted food," > CHEMICAL & ENGINEERING NEWS June 14, 1999, pg. 9. > > [3] Debora MacKenzie, "Recipe for disaster," NEW SCIENTIST No. 2190 > (June 12, 1999), pg. 4. > > [4] Craig R. Whitney, "Food Scandal Adds to Belgium's Image of > Disarray," NEW YORK TIMES June 9, 1999, pg. A4. > > [5] Pier Alberto Bertazzi and others, "Cancer Incidence in a Population > Accidentally Exposed to 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-PARA-dioxin," > EPIDEMIOLOGY Vol. 4 (September, 1993), pgs. 398-406. > > [6] P.A. Bertazzi, "The Seveso studies on early and long-term effects of > dioxin exposure: a review," ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVES Vol. 106 > Supplement 2 (April 1998), pgs. 625-633. > > [7] P.A. Bertazzi and others, "Dioxin exposure and cancer risk: a 15- > year mortality study after the 'Seveso accident,'" EPIDEMIOLOGY Vol. 8, > No. 6 (November 1997), pgs. 646-652. > > [8] A.C. Pesatori and others, "Dioxin exposure and non-malignant health > effects: a mortality study," OCCUPATIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL MEDICINE > Vol. 55, No. 2 (February 1998), pgs. 126-131. > > Descriptor terms: dioxin; food safety; belgium; > > ### > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 10:41:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17711 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA08844 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 06:00:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA07235 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 05:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.146.118] (dialup-0630.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.146.118]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13543 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:56:43 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE19@vela.phibred.com> <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE19@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:41:51 +0100 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: RE: Who is ACSH? & Why are they discrediting claims of certain sy nethetic chemicals endangering the endocrine systems of human? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1682 >>The ACSH board is mainly scientists and physicians. I took a random sample >>of about twenty of the 250 ACSH board members and looked up their >>publications. More than half have published extensively in peer-reviewed >>journals, and appear to be productive scientists. > Had an interesting experience recently. The government put together a group to debate the issues of genetic engineering. Initial proposal was 2 representatives of the bio tech industry, 4 academic scientists and 2 NGO/antiGMO representatives. Due to popular pressure they took 2 positions off the scientists and gave them to the NGOs. Screams from the academics whose honour had been impugned. And I have to say I agreed with the academics. Spent all my life in academic circles and was a firm believer in academic neutrality. Silly me. Went to the debates and if they hadn't changed it would have been a straight 6:2 campaigning ratio. Heard far more misused statistics from the very senior indeed academics than from the overt biotech publicity people. I work in another advisory body with biotech representatives, govt representatives and more of the peer reviewed productive scientists and I find the guys with the commercial interest are far more open to argument than the ones who are going ahead through sheer blind faith. kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 11:52:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20262 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15971 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:58:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA15850 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990716140007.4078.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.136.65.33] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:00:07 EDT Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:00:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Fwd: Re: Looking for Ag. Books To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1683 The Sustainable Ag Network (SAN) is keeping an online "Sourcebook" of publications/literature/materials (you name it) relating to sustainable agriculture. You can access the Sourcebook through SAN/SARE homepage at www.sare.org (or go directly to sourcebook at http://www.sare.org/san/sourcebook/) Please note that it is an interactive sourcebook where one can update or add materials via internet. If you don't see an item there and you feel that it belongs in the sourcebook, please submit it. If you have any questions about it, please feel free to email me or Andy Clark (san@nal.usda.gov). Also, while I'm mentioning the Sourcebook, here's a small pitch for the SAN Calendar -- again -- it's interactive, so please go ahead and use and submit events to it -- you can add to it through www.sare.org via News and Events -- the shortcut is for viewing only. Mid-summer greetings! Kirsten Saylor SAN Beltsville, MD --- Alex McGregor wrote: > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:58:06 -0400 > From: Alex McGregor > Reply-to: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com > Organization: Walden Farm > To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" > > Subject: Re: Looking for Ag. Books > > Tad, > > Acres USA Publishes a monthly magazine and sells > books- mostly published by > Acres. They range from books by agricultural > consultants to those working with > energy and crystals. Their web address is: > http://www.acresusa.com/ > > Call their 800 number to get a book catalog. > > Alex > > Tad Williams wrote: > > > I am looking for books and videos that are related > to sustainable > > agriculture, urban agriculture, and organic food. > If anyone has suggestions > > on websites, bookstores, or publishing companies > that would be great. Also, > > I would like to find books that do not normally > appear in the major online > > bookstores like amazon and barnes n nobles. > Thanks. > > > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > Tad Williams > > Marketing Director > > Progressive Publications Ph: (202)238-0010 > Fax: (202)238-0011 > > www.progressivepubs.com > > P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with > the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest > format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email > majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with > the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest > format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 11:56:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20330 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01299 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:37:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01241 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 129.2.68.82 (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA00599; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <378F0C36.484D@wam.umd.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:41:06 +0000 From: Valerie Berton Organization: SARE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tad Williams CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Looking for Ag. Books References: <199907151604.MAA14614@chet.brysonweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1684 Tad: USDA's Sustainable Agriculture Network has published books, free bulletins and brochures on such topics as cover crops, mechanical weed control, rotational grazing and crop diversification. Check out www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/ The Alternative Farming Systems Information Center lists annotated bibliographies and other literature on urban agriculture at www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/sbjurbag.htm Good luck. Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 12:07:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA20504 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA06018 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:52:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05974 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-25.csj.net [12.29.22.25]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA20016 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:53:12 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Subject: Who is ACSH? A classic example of academia run amuck Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:53:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000501becf9a$f2b1bbc0$7ac3fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1685 A while back Lon published the "news" release about the ARS discovering a virus in turkeys causing the "new" disease and economic devastation among turkey growers in the SE. I e-mailed to the ARS that this wasn't a new disease at all, but an old one for the ostrich and rhea growers, and got no response. Then it showed up on pro-MED. Needless to say, I was really angry since that news release did not qualify as data or peer-reviewed information. One particular line proclaimed that the turkey poult mortality syndrome (PEMS) was a combination of deadly viruses. This is not science, it is rampant speculation!. Anyway, pro-Med didn't like my first response and it was rejected on grounds of "no data". I resubmitted this answer which goes into much more detail on the myopia of the researchers involved. I copied the second submission below. It has not showed up yet, but neither has pro-MED in a few days. I can give you another example: A certain dean of a certain veterinary school in a certain Midwest state is an expert on toxicology and has almost 200 published papers, 80 of which have to deal with safe exposure to toxic chemicals. The format is the same, they are all peer reviewed, and are scientific trash. It goes thusly: Rats are fed or exposed to a specific chemical for 13 weeks in varying concentrations, usually four. The safe level is declared as the level directly below the exposure that caused cellular or measurable blood value changes. Where is the flaw in this? Actually there are several. 1. Laboratory rat diets are optimized and are costly as animal feeds go. They are also not subject to the variants most animal feeds are. Nutrient levels are carefully maintained. One cannot extrapolate to humans who are consuming fast food on a regular basis with no supplementation. It would have been interesting to see what a safe level would be on diets as chaotic as the average American, diets supplemented with liver detoxifiers, or rats exposed to stress, and far more valid. 2. Some of the enzymes measured are so obscure they are not even found in biochemistry texts and are therefore not recognized as important measures of degeneration. 3. The time frame is far to short to declare a safe level. Autoimmune disorders take years to manifest. 4. Only one toxin is introduced at a time which is not a real life scenario. Therefore, the only conclusion that can be made is that there are no discernible physiological changes in rats exposed to X chemical at X level for 13 weeks in a controlled laboratory environment. Declaring a "safe" level is irresponsible, but these papers have passed the review process. The peer review process is a good-ole-boy network and they support each other. It is not as pristine as it may seem and sometimes the word fraud is applicable. Donna Fezler Jacksonville, IL Here is the submission to pro-Med challenging the new disease proclamation: The statement that PEMS is "a deadly combination of viruses" is pure speculation, not science. The ratite (ostrich, rhea) industry went through a long grocery list of bacteria and viruses as causative agents, all of which failed the simple test of consistency. Now, the turkey owners are experiencing the same economic devastation and all the ARS has to offer is a viral speculation. One of the researchers listed did write a paper on the profound hypophosphatemia in the rhea and his conclusion was to supplement with phosphorus. Feed companies redeveloped feed with high levels of phosphorus and injectable phosphorus became the standard treatment for acute cases. It didn't work and the birds still were horribly deformed and dying while injecting large numbers of easily stressed animals repeatedly is simply neither commercially feasible nor economically sound. The solution offered nothing in the way of an explanation that why animals that have survived on the planet for 80 million years would evolved with such a metabolic quirk. So, here are portions of the introduction to the approved patent application, which will be published in the fall, supporting my allegation that the new disease is not new at all. There are few specific references to rheas because there only a dozen published papers on any aspect of the rhea. Furthermore, since I have been black-balled, my laboratory facilities for the last two years have consisted of a glucose tester from K mart and a surplus Russian microscope. I can't even get blood values done. This is not a frivolous patent. The patent office has significantly tightened the rules for medical patents to try to stem the tide of plant and DNA patents, but once they were satisfied with the science presented (after numerous rebuttals and queries) and understood that I was not a biotech company, but just a tenacious, sole researcher, they assisted me in every way possible. Under the new rules, I could not be granted a patent specifically for human autoimmune disorders without a double-blind clinical trial (an impossibility at this point), so I was granted a patent on the production of the product with specific claims for animals. Call it a peasants revolt, if you wish. These charts, which are the heart and soul of this patent, are on the website, and show the path from ATP to autoimmune symptoms through a competitive and rate-limiting detoxification pathway. http://www.rhealiving.com/atpflow.htm http://www.rhealiving.com/ATP%20Util%20degrad.htm http://www.rhealiving.com/atptoxin.htm Patent Introduction Wasting Syndrome Manifestations in Infant Rheas and Ostriches Rhea americana (rhea) and Struthios camelus (ostrich) chicks are notoriously frustrating to raise, often succumbing to a wasting disease from one of three bewildering syndromes which develop between one week and two months of age. Birds that survive to three months of age generally mature. Morbidity and mortality can be 100% (1). Since no single pathogen can be found consistently, the syndrome is, in our opinion, metabolic in origin, and perhaps a successful evolutionary adaptation in the wild that becomes a suicide mechanism in confinement. 1. Rubber Rhea Syndrome, currently believed to be unique to the South American ostrich, is characterized by severe hypophosphatemia, mildly depressed blood glucose, low thyroxin levels, with stunting, pliable bills, softened bones, and many chicks exhibiting widening of the proximal tibiotarsus, poor feathering, depleted adipose, and ultimately, death. Bone histopathology, decreased bone ash, gross lesions, and decreased serum phosphorus characterize moderate to severe rickets (2-4). 2. Post-protozoan stunting syndrome, following successful recovery of intestinal protozoan overgrowth after a course of treatment with metronidazole, shows shortened bones and bill, widening of the tibiometatarsus, hyperkeratinosis, stunting, poor feathering, rounded heads, and ascites with varying incidence of alopecia, achromotricia, encephalomyopathy, spontaneous fractures, aneurysms, and paresis. This syndrome bears a remarkable similarity to aflatoxin poisoning. Chronic inflammation of the small intestine is apparent at necropsy (unpublished). This chronic inflammation is not exclusive to this disorder, it is so common as to be misconstrued as normal (5). 3. Fading Chick Syndrome, recognized by veterinarians and producers alike as a common problem in the ostrich and rhea, is characterized by extreme weight loss, muscle degeneration, lethargy, hypothermia, decreased appetite, stunting, frequent intestinal inflammation, ascites, and death, usually within the first month with or without secondary infections (6). The Syndromes as Accelerated Autoimmune Disorders Inconsistent chick survivability under a wide range of management systems, climates, feeding programs, and genetics pose a challenge to the commercial development of rheas and ostriches as livestock animals. These problems foster the widely accepted, but unsubstantiated view, that ratite chicks are immunosuppressed and the health problems are therefore multi-factorial (7-9). Typical efforts to solve these problems through known therapies utilizing strict biosecurity management or pharmaceutical regimens have resulted in frustration and increased production costs, threatening the ability to raise these animals competitively as food animals. Although ostriches have been raised domestically in South Africa for over 100 years as the domesticated hybrid commonly referred to as the African Black ostrich, the rhea and other subspecies of ostriches raised in the United States are basically ancient wild animals with a long history of successful evolutionary strategy in the wild state. Compounding the situation is widespread disagreement and speculation among veterinarians regarding various causative disease organisms, which upon closer examination of the symptoms, suggests these diseases are variations of Fading Chick Syndrome with an opportunistic bacterial invader of questionable pathogenicity, Megabacteriosis (10, 11), or viruses such as coronaviral enteritis (12), rotavirus, or adenovirus (13, 14). Recent results from the experimental trials at University of Georgia show that two specific adenovirus isolates are non-pathogenic to ostriches, establishing that the presence or detection of adenovirus does not implicate pathogenicity (15), refuting prior claims of adenovirus as the leading cause of Fading Chick Syndrome (16). It may prove to be a synergistic virus, playing a role in increased adiposity in chickens testing positive for adenovirus (13). This may be a beneficial synergistic reaction to the birds in a toxin situation, increasing available adipose sites for toxin deposition. In our opinion, these syndromes are similar to autoimmune disorders in humans, where the body attacks itself. However, in the case of the ostriches these are accelerated autoimmune disorders, rapidly producing disability and death in weeks rather than decades. Therefore, the cause of Fading Chick Syndrome and Rubber Rhea Syndrome is most likely a metabolic imbalance initiated by exposure to environmental toxins often compounded by stress. This is corroborated by reduced weight gain during exposure to the feed mycotoxin vomitoxin (16). The nature of the imbalance and the attempt by the birds to restore homeostasis provides the basis for utilizing the carcass extract of the ratites in humans and animals as a therapeutic agent. The closely related members of the ratite group of flightless birds, rheas (first), ostriches (second), have a dramatic, crippling, and fatal evolutionary strategy based on unchecked proteolysis and subsequent cachexia in a stressed state. These skittish birds are capable of sustained speeds up to 35 MPH with less than 2% fat available in their muscle. This indicates an ability to create and manifest an enormous amount of molecular energy in the form of nucleotides, i.e. ATP (adenosine triphosphate), to meet the enormous demand of the muscles. ATP assays of dried muscle extract showed dried rhea muscle extract had sustained ATP 64% higher than chicken and 155% higher than pork or beef. 1. Shivaprasad HL. Neonatal mortality in ostriches: an overview of possible causes. Association of Avian Veterinarians, 1993:282-285. 2. Angel CR, Bermudez, A. Serum Vitamin D metabolites and Chemistries from Healthy Rheas and Rheas with "Rubber Rhea Syndrome". Association of Avian Veterinarians Session # 4040. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1995. 3. Angel C. Personal Communication. 1995: 4. Grone A, Swayne, D.E., Nagode, L.A. Hypophosphatemic rickets in rheas (Rhea americana). Veterinary Pathology 1995;32:324-327. 5. Baltmanis B, Blue-McLendon, A, Angel, R. Effect of diet on the ostrich gastrointestinal tract size. American Ostrich 1997(April):17-24. 6. Speer B. Fading Chick Syndrome. American Ostrich 1994:30-31, 82-85. 7. Wade J. Ratite pediatric medicine and surgery. Association of Avian Veterinarians, 1992:340-356. 8. Raines AM. How to evaluate a ratite facility to aid in diagnosing chick mortality. Association of Avian Veterinarians, 1994:97-102. 9. Blue-McLendon A. Pediatric Disorders of Ostriches. Proceedings Association of Avian Veterinarians, 1993:269-271. 10. Peters L. Megabacteriosis. American Ostrich 1995(May):33, 45-48. 11. Huchzermeyer F, Henton, MM, Keffen, RH. High mortality associated with megabacteriosis of proventriculus and gizzard in ostrich chicks. Veterinary Record 1993;133(August 7):143-144. 12. Frank R, Carpenter, JW. Coronaviral enteritis in an ostrich (Struthio camelus) chick. J. of Zoo and Wildlife Medicine 1992;23(1):103-107. 13. Dhurandhar NV, Kulkarni P, Ajinkya SM, Sherikar A. Effect of adenovirus infection on adiposity in chicken. Veterinary Microbiology 1992;31(2-3):101-7. 14. Raines A. Adenovirus infection in the ostrich (struthio camelus). Proceedings of the Association of Avian Veterinarians, 1993:304-311. 15. El-Attrache j, Villegas, P, O'Connor, B, Buhr, JR, Rowland, GN. Adenovirus Pathogenicity in Immature Ostriches. American Ostrich 1997(April):3-7. 16. Scheideler S. Effects of vomitoxin on ostrich growth. American Ostrich 1997(April):14-16. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 13:12:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA21704 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00391 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:50:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00379 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.125]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990716155005.JYFV9368@worldnet.att.net>; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:50:05 +0000 Message-ID: <378F5486.7A821DE6@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:49:26 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cntraryfmr@aol.com, SANET-mg Subject: Re: Kelp Powder References: <6d7cab39.24c017c1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1686 Marcus, Kelp meal and lots of other wonderful products are available at the Biocontrol Network. See the soil page at: http://www.biconet.com/soil.html The home page is Hello, > I had great success finding Diatomaceous Earth with your help, so I am > wondering if anyone could recommend an online source for Kelp powder or meal > as well as Flax seed meal or whole flax seeds in bulk. > Thanks > Marcus > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 13:27:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22368 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA05245 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:08:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from arcs4.cc.bbsrc.ac.uk (arcs4.cc.bbsrc.ac.uk [149.155.100.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA05218 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from arcs.cc.bbsrc.ac.uk by arcs4.cc.bbsrc.ac.uk with SMTP-internal (PP) with ESMTP; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:12:29 +0100 Received: from mserv.lars.bbsrc.ac.uk by arcs.cc.bbsrc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:11:40 +0100 Received: by mserv.lars.bbsrc.ac.uk; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/24Jul97-0426PM) id AA11789; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:07:58 +0100 From: "geoff.seavers" Alternate-Recipient: allowed Auto-Forwarded: prohibited Content-Return: allowed Disclose-Recipients: prohibited Conversion: allowed Importance: normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential Subject: Closure of Long Ashton Research Station, UK To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <990716170757.8190@mserv.lars.bbsrc.ac.uk.0> X-Dmw-Body-Names: Closure of Long Ashton Research Station, UK Date: Fri, 16 Jul 99 17:07:57 +0100 X-Mailer: MailWorks 2.0-4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; Type="Text"; name="Closure_of_Long_Ashton_Research_Station__UK.TXT"; x-dmw-oid="2A864886F70F0301"; x-dmw-btname="PlainText" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1687 Dear Sanet, Just in case any of you have had any contacts with Long Ashton Research Station in the past. I thought you might like to know the latest news. BBSRC, one of our funding providers, are planning on withdrawing support from the site and transferring all resources and those scientists who are willing to move to our sister site (Rothamsted near London). Although we have considerable funding from other sources this withdrawal will mean that Long Ashton will have to close. The link below gives more details and an appeal for letters of support from anyone around the world who is interested in seeing Long Ashton remain open. We would be grateful for any support that people might be willing to offer. Please pass this message on to anyone you know who might be interested. http://www.lars.bbsrc.ac.uk/cropenv/agroecol/aeg7.html Thanks Geoff Seavers --------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail : geoff.seavers@bbsrc.ac.uk IACR Long Ashton Research Station Department of Agricultural Science University of Bristol Long Ashton Bristol BS41 9AF Telephone : 01275 392181 FAX : 01275 394007 Direct line : 01275 549209 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 14:05:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25387 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA16998 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:38:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlserve.unl.edu (root@unlserve.unl.edu [129.93.1.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA16985 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pmurray.unl.edu (ag-pmurray.unl.edu [129.93.224.80]) by unlserve.unl.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA60076; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:36:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:36:37 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990716113922.4ea7628a@unlserve.unl.edu> X-Sender: pmurray@unlserve.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, news@psupena.psu.edu From: Pam Murray Subject: July-August 1999 CSAS Newsletter Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA16992 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1688 July-August 1999 CSAS Newsletter The Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems (CSAS) in the Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources (IANR) at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln (UNL) is an interdisciplinary center formed in 1991 for the purpose of bringing together people and resources to promote an agriculture that is efficient, competitive, profitable, environmentally and socially sustainable for the indefinite future. The electronic version of this bimonthly newsletter is sent to SANET and PENPages several days before those on our mailing list receive their hard copy. The newsletters are also available along with other sustainable ag information on our World Wide Web page: http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas. Note: The electronic version is not sent to individual e-mail addresses. To be added to the "hard copy" newsletter mailing list beginning with the next bimonthly issue (not sent to overseas addresses), or for questions or comments, contact the newsletter editor, Pam Murray, Coordinator, Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, PO Box 830949, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, NE 68583-0949, 402-472-2056, fax -4104, e-mail: pmurray1@.unl.edu. Comments about the content or usefulness of this newsletter are always welcome. * * * CONTENTS: BIOTECHNOLOGY ISSUES DISCUSSED AT NABC MEETING IN LINCOLN UNIVERSITY ROLE IN BIOTECHNOLOGY: HOW DO WE SUSTAIN FOOD PRODUCTION? CSAS ISSUES VOLUMES 10 AND 11 SARE MARKETING CONFERENCE IN LINCOLN THIS NOVEMBER SEPTEMBER 10 IS DEADLINE FOR NCR SARE PREPROPOSALS NEBRASKA LEGISLATIVE BILLS STUDY MANAGEMENT AND HELP BEGINNING FARMERS/RANCHERS VOLUNTARY PROGRAM WILL BOOST ORGANIC EXPORTS CANADA INTRODUCES NATIONAL STANDARD FOR ORGANIC AGRICULTURE MERRIGAN TO HEAD USDA'S AGRICULTURAL MARKETING SERVICE NOMINATIONS SOUGHT FOR STEWARD OF THE LAND AWARD THANKS AND FAREWELL, GLEN RESOURCES COMING EVENTS * * * BIOTECHNOLOGY ISSUES DISCUSSED AT NABC MEETING IN LINCOLN Multinational corporate control of the seed industry and concentration of ownership in a few companies were two of the major concerns discussed at the 1999 meeting of the National Agricultural Biotechnology Council titled "World Food Security and Sustainability: The Impacts of Biotechnology and Industrial Consolidation." Farmers, researchers, and industry representatives gathered for three days in June to explore the current and future challenges raised by new technologies in the bio-transformation of crop plants using transgenic techniques. In addition to ownership and control issues, there were questions about who benefits from this technology, who maintains oversight on the process and represents the public good, liability for problems, and sustaining food production for the future. Per-Pinstrup Andersen of the International Food Policy Research Institute stressed the importance of food for developing countries in the future, saying that most imported grains will have to come from the U.S., and that biotechnology will contribute to intensified production on both good lands and marginal areas. Cornelia Flora from Iowa State University discussed the social impacts of our current separation of management from ownership in agriculture, and the reduced linkages between producers and consumers. She expressed concern about the disconnect of people from their food sources, and that decisions are currently made for efficiency and stockholder profit without considering equity of access to food and resources. Chuck Hassebrook of the Center for Rural Affairs and UNL Regent emphasized the importance of family farming and how the potentials of global food production can be met by individual entrepreneurs in this country and elsewhere. He stressed the importance of rural community and need for incentives to continually renew our human resources by finding ways to encourage beginning farmers, and the role of policy in this direction. Fred Kirschenmann, family farmer from North Dakota, challenged as unlikely the three claims made by those who promote biotechnology: these technologies will help farm profitability, they will simplify management with more environmentally benign systems, and they will help feed people around the world. In contrast, he believes that feeding the world is a social and not a production problem, that we continue to pursue a strategy of introducing external forces to dominate the agricultural environment, and that the farm share of the food dollar keeps going down and farmers are becoming factory workers for one of the four large consolidated food companies. Small group workshops explored the use of biotechnology through discussion and listing priority issues for the future. There are some biological concerns such as gene escape and human food safety, but hope that these can be better understood through more research. Although the benefits of understanding biological processes are obvious, there was much debate about who would control this new technology and who would benefit. Some of the challenges are an over-emphasis on profits at the expense of the public good, lack of effective public policy debate, reduction of consumer choices, and potential for accelerating economic inequity. Some argue that these are social problems unrelated to generation of new technologies, but the general feeling was that most issues in food systems are interconnected, and we need to seek agreement on how to use the potentials of these new technologies. There were several other interesting speakers in addition to those mentioned above, including Dennis Avery with the Hudson Institute, and many perspectives represented in the presentations, Q&A, and small group sessions. Complete copies of the proceedings will be available later this year from the National Agricultural Biotechnology Council, 419 BTI, Tower Road, Ithaca, NY 14853, 607-254-4856, NABC@cornell.edu, http://www.cals.cornell.edu/extension/nabc. Submitted by Charles Francis and Pam Murray UNIVERSITY ROLE IN BIOTECHNOLOGY: HOW DO WE SUSTAIN FOOD PRODUCTION? Fourth in a Series. There is growing debate about the emerging role of universities in research and applications of biotechnology. Current interest and investment in production and use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) have sparked a revolution in university research laboratories and fields. Perhaps no single set of new techniques and potential technologies has caused such a substantial short-term shift in focus of people and resources in universities. We hope that encouraging debate within the university community and among our clients will help inform people of the issues and aid in charting a rational strategy for the future. Global Food Challenges Critics and promoters of genetically transformed crops agree on the need for increased food production in the future, and agree that we must find ways to achieve this with fewer resources and less negative impact on the environment. In the past it has been possible to expand food production into new or underexploited areas, while today these lands are all in use and we have to intensify production on available acres. The challenge of a growing human population is compounded by increases in standard of living as well as changes in food preferences to more meat in the diet, and thus an accelerating demand for feed grains. With limits to land and resources, we have to produce more with less. In a recent biotechnology conference, North Dakota farmer Fred Kirschenmann questioned whether genetically transformed crops will actually help feed more people. He quoted Nobel Prize Laureate Amartya Sen, who found that studies of classic famines through history were caused by lack of "food entitlement" rather than lack of production. Thus hunger has been caused not by low levels of production but by people not having sufficient access to food that is produced. Since hunger is both an economic and social problem, and not one in agriculture, he argues that new technologies that further accelerate the differences between rich and poor people will only make the problem worse in the future. Kirschenmann cites as an example the production and export of soybeans from Brazilan activity that generates export income for the government and a few wealthy farmers, but diverts food from the local supply and causes an increase in malnutrition. Thus the challenge of meeting global food needs is far more complex than just producing more on the farm or reducing production expenses. Are Higher Yields Possible? If one of the major challenges is to increase crop yields on available arable land, we must address the question of increased land productivity. To date most genetic transformation research has been directed at resistance to insects, tolerance to herbicides, and quality traits such as crop storage life. Relatively greater success can be achieved in these traits because they are often under simple genetic control, i.e., one or a small number of genes control the expression of this characteristic of the plants. When we start breeding for increased yields, we learn quickly that this is dependent on complex inheritance patterns; yield is determined by many genes and their interactions in the plant, as well as their interactions with the surrounding environment and growth conditions. Thus it is not unexpected that yield is more difficult to influence through changes in one or a few genes. New techniques in biotechnology have made minimal contributions to increasing yield potential of major food crops, where traditional plant breeding methods have already moved yields onto a high plateau near the physiological potential of these species. Where yield advances have been made in crops, they are due to removal of a single yield-limiting factor such as resistance to a major pest problem. Biotechnology is not a panacea for increasing yields. Should the U.S. Sustain the World's Food Supply? Several questions must be asked that relate to this large issue of U.S. contributions to global food supply: Can the U.S. continue to export food for the long term? What is the long-term cost of this export of food? Who in the U.S. and elsewhere benefit from exports? The U.S. currently contributes more than any other single country to total global trade in basic grains and legumes. The Chicago Board of Trade essentially sets the world market price for most commodities. This export potential is based on a large reserve of fertile land and high level of capitalization in agriculture that reduces labor costs to a minimum. WorldWatch Institute estimates that we currently have about 1.8 acres per person of productive farmland in the U.S. With current rates of population growth from births and immigration and farmland loss to urbanization, this will be reduced to 1.2 acres per person within one generation, by 2020. Including projections of increased production due to better science and technology, by 2020 this land area will be sufficient to support our own population at the current standard of living with no exports of food. Extrapolating another generation into the future, by 2050 there will be 0.6 acres per persononly half the land needed to support our own population. Our potential for export of food in the future must be examined carefully. The long-term cost of the current high levels of production must be evaluated in terms of soil and air quality, use of non-renewable natural resources, preservation of the production potential, and incentives to farm. We still experience serious erosion of soil and nutrients from agricultural lands, in spite of major advances in soil management. Agriculture is highly dependent on fossil fuels and other materials for which we have few viable alternatives with today's technology. Cumulative losses of soil and other natural resources soon put us in a tenuous situation for producing enough food for our own country, even without exports to others. And the U.S. has yet to design a farming and food policy that keeps people on the land and encourages new farmers to get involved. Land and resource consolidation creates a large, non-involved, minimum-wage class of farm workers with little equity in the process or long-term commitment to conservation for the future. Current beneficiaries of the food export industry include the major multinational food companies, large chemical and biotechnology corporations, and other suppliers of inputs and services to this industry. Farmers increasingly play an important but minor role in a business where contracts specify crops and technologies, and decision making moves from the manager at the field and family level to that of the owners. Many farmers view biotechnology advances as further locking them into this industrial mode of farming, and see the new seed technologies as one more incentive to homogenization and consolidation in farming. An export-based agriculture and global food system are insensitive to local needs and concerns, and there is further disconnect between people and their food supply. In recipient countries, there is added insecurity with increased dependence on food imports. A viable goal for most countries should be a high degree of self-reliance in food, while still finding a logical level of participation in the global trade system. In many food import situations, there are reduced incentives for local farmers and food processors who cannot compete with the efficiency of larger producers. Classical economics suggests that the market will sort this out. It is difficult to convince a hungry family in the Third World that the global economy will somehow take care of them. Because of the many unresolved issues in how to best sustain global food production, we need to take a creative approach to development and rational use of technologies to increase both productivity in agriculture and people's access to food. There is little evidence that new advances in biotechnology will provide higher yields, nor reverse the global consolidation of resources that will further undermine the well-being of the poor. Most analysts suggest that these technologies will only accelerate the forces that separate the "haves" from the "have nots." Submitted by Charles Francis CSAS ISSUES VOLUMES 10 AND 11 Small Farming Systems for the Midwest and Reintegrating Agriculture and Community in the Midwest is the tenth in the series, Extension and Education Materials for Sustainable Agriculture, published by the Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems (CSAS). The 166-page volume, edited by Richard Olson and Lisa Bauer, contains the proceedings of a 20-session seminar series held Fall 1998 and Spring 1999 at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. The series was designed to showcase farmers and other participants in the food system who are successfully pursuing local, equitable, and sustainable strategies. The credibility of these alternatives comes from their successful implementation in the real world. The Fall 1998 series titled "Small Farming Systems for the Midwest" examined alternative farming systems that are able to remain economically viable without becoming large. Farmers from five states described successful systems including market gardens, agroforestry, diversified crop/livestock, and even a wineryperhaps the ultimate on-farm value-added enterprise. The Spring 1999 series, "Reintegrating Agriculture and Community in the Midwest," explored approaches to providing a more supportive environment for small farms through the relocalization of agriculture and the development of stronger ties between agriculture and the community. A successful local food system has to be a partnership between urban and rural, producer and consumer. Community Supported Agriculture, farmers' markets, urban gardens, and other mechanisms for developing partnerships are described by those who have worked with them. Other topics include strategies for preserving farmland from urban sprawl, and legal issues in direct farm marketing. Note: Information on ordering videos of the seminars is available at http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas/majorsem.htm Also edited by Richard Olson is Volume 11, Urbanization of Rural Landscapes: Syllabus and Teaching Materials from a University Course. The 335-page volume describes a multi-disciplinary course, Urbanization of Rural Landscapes, developed and taught at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln (UNL) this past spring. The course was designed so that students would be able to: - describe the major factors influencing land use decisions in the U.S.; - describe the patterns and consequences of land conversion in the US.; - identify alternatives to sprawl and other typical development patterns; - access internet and other sources of information on land use policy and farmland preservation; - demonstrate a familiarity with land use planning tools, policies, and procedures; - describe trends in urbanization and land use in the Lincoln/Omaha area; - participate in and contribute to community debates on land use issues. The book contains the course syllabus and associated teaching materials including exercises, exams, selected readings, and references. It is organized chronologically with the materials grouped by week. Each section begins with a brief overview of themes and objectives for the week, and a description of the materials presented in the section. It provides useful ideas to instructors who want to design a course on this topic or modify an existing course. Also, the reference materials may be of value to people interested in farmland and open-space preservation and land use issues. Chapter contents of Volumes 10 and 11 as well as information on other publications of the CSAS can be found at http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas/reports.htm. To order, send a check payable to the University of Nebraska for US$10.00 per volume (note which volume(s) you are ordering) to: Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, University of Nebraska, PO Box 830949, Lincoln NE 68583-0949. (Price includes s&h in US; for air book rate to Canada, add $5; air rate to other countries, check with the CSAS officethis applies to all volumes in the series.) For questions, contact the CSAS office, 402-472-2056, csas003@unlvm.unl.edu. SARE MARKETING CONFERENCE IN LINCOLN THIS NOVEMBER The North Central Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program is offering a hands-on alternative marketing conference, "Developing Alternative Agricultural Marketing Skills for the New Millennium," November 19-20, 1999, in Lincoln, Nebraska. Producers, educators, nonprofit groups, retail and wholesale food representatives, food processors, restauranteurs, and general consumers will share information on making more direct connections between farm gates and dinner plates to support healthier people, farms and communities. Two keynote speakers are Kansas rancher Diana Endicott, who direct markets her cooperatively produced "natural beef" to Kansas City grocery stores, and Wisconsin farmer Richard DeWilde, who sells horticultural products through community-supported agriculture, farmers' markets, and other high-value, innovative marketing avenues. The conference will also showcase innovative alternative marketing strategies through workshops and poster and display sessions. Registration fee includes a legal guide for direct farm marketing by Neil Hamiltonwho will also conduct a workshop on this topic, and a marketing resource notebook. For details on the program, registration, exhibiting, co-sponsoring, or travel scholarships for farmers, contact Lisa Bauer at 402-472-0265, lbauer1@unl.edu. The Web site will be updated as more information becomes available, http://www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare. SEPTEMBER 10 IS DEADLINE FOR NCR SARE PREPROPOSALS The USDA's North Central Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education program is calling for innovative researchers, educators, institutions and organizations to apply for competitive grants that will boost producers' profits, protect the environment and support healthy communities. Approximately $1.3 million will be available in 2000 to fund creative projects addressing long-term enhancement of food and fiber systems in the 12-state region. Applications are available by contacting the NCR SARE office at 402-472-7081, ncrsare@unl.edu, http://www.sare.org/ncrsare. VOLUNTARY PROGRAM WILL BOOST ORGANIC EXPORTS The USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service (AMS) has established a voluntary, fee-for-service program to verify that organic certification agencies in the United States comply with the requirements of the International Organization for Standardization, facilitating exports of U.S. organic agricultural products to the European Union. Effective in June the program will verify that state and private organic certifying agencies are operating third-party certification systems in a consistent and reliable manner, enabling their acceptance on an international basis. The new program does not provide for national standards governing the marketing of organically produced agricultural commodities or products, and differs substantially from the proposed National Organic Program. To be assessed under this program, an organic certifying agency would submit an application requesting such assessment from AMS and also submit to AMS for review and evaluation, a manual documenting the organic certifying agency's quality system and certification procedures used to certify organic producers and handlers. There are currently 11 state and 33 private organic certifying agencies providing certification for organic agricultural products in the United States. The rule announcing the program was published in the Federal Register on June 10 and is available on the Internet at http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara in the Federal Register for that date, under "Program To Assess Organic Certifying Agencies." Source: Alternative Agriculture News, July 1999, published by the Wallace Institute. MERRIGAN TO HEAD USDA'S AGRICULTURAL MARKETING SERVICE Kathleen Merrigan, the Wallace Institute's senior policy analyst for the past five years, is the new administrator of the USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service. Merrigan was formerly an aide to Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) when he served as chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee. She has been a member of the National Organic Standards Board since 1993. "Same agenda, different location," said Merrigan. "This is a great opportunity to go back inside government and work with an agency responsible for many of the issues at the forefront of sustainable agriculture, notably the new organic standards, farmers markets, farmers' cooperatives, mandatory price reporting, and pesticide data collection." Source: Alternative Agriculture News, June 1999, published by the Wallace Institute. THANKS AND FAREWELL, GLEN Glen Vollmar, CSAS Interim Director, officially retired June 30 (although we'll see him on campus two days a week this year). Thanks to Glen for his contributions this past year! Charles Francis returned from his sabbatic in June and has resumed the CSAS Director position. NOMINATIONS SOUGHT FOR STEWARD OF THE LAND AWARD American Farmland Trust seeks nominations for the 2000 Steward of the Land Award, given annually to the American farmer or farm family who demonstrates outstanding land stewardship and leadership at the national, state, and local levels. The winner will be presented with the award early next year and will receive a $10,000 cash stipend. Nominations must be received by mail or fax by Monday, November 1. For nomination kits and more information, contact Matthew Snyder or Robyn Miller at AFT, 202-331-7300 ext. 3044, http://www.farmland.org. NEBRASKA LEGISLATIVE BILLS STUDY MANAGEMENT AND HELP BEGINNING FARMERS/RANCHERS The following two bills were passed by the 96th Nebraska Legislature. LB 730 creates an Agricultural Structure Assessment Task Force. The task force will study: the types and management forms of Nebraska agricultural operations; past, present and future trends of ownership of land, equipment and capital in production agriculture; and agricultural product market dynamics. The objective of the task force is to recommend legislation that will help to achieve a balance among various types of agricultural entities. LB 630 allows a credit against state income tax liability for an owner of agricultural land, livestock, buildings or machinery who rents those assets for three years to a qualified beginning farmer or rancher. The credit, which begins in 2001, will be equal to 5% of the gross rental income on the rental agreement. The credit will be refundable, which means that if the credit were larger than the taxpayer's total tax liability, the taxpayer would receive the difference. A seven-member board will oversee the program. CANADA INTRODUCES NATIONAL STANDARD FOR ORGANIC AGRICULTURE On June 29 the Government of Canada unveiled a new National Standard of Canada for Organic Agriculturea step that will clarify what the "organic" in organic agriculture means. The standard outlines principles for organic agriculture that endorse production and management practices that contribute to the quality and sustainability of the environment and ensure the ethical treatment of livestock. Among its provisions, the standard: - prohibits use of ionizing radiation in the preservation of food; - prohibits use of genetically engineered or modified organisms; - encourages maximum use of recycling; - encourages maximum rotation of crops and promotion of biodiversity. To see an abstract or to order a copy of the National Standard of Canada for Organic Agriculture, which will be listed as CAN/CGSB-32.310, see http://www.pwgsc.gc.ca/cgsb. RESOURCES The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States. $15. New study shows farm profits from organic cropping systems can equal or exceed profits from conventional rotations in the Midwest. Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Rd., #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770-1551, 301-441-8777, hawiaa@access.digex.net. Also available online at the Institute's Web site, http://www.hawiaa.org. The Natural Foods Market: A National Survey of Strategies for Growth, Executive Summary, April 1999. Free. Results from over 300 interviews of food industry businesses, including farmers, manufacturers, wholesalers and retail supermarkets. Analyzes current trends and major obstacles as well as successful business strategies in natural foods market. Full report US$50 for non-profits and $150 for businesses. Wallace Institute (see above). Swine Sourcebook: Alternatives for Pork Production. $17.50 + $4 s&h. Comprehensive guide for sustainable swine production, incl. hoop structures, Swedish deep bedding, pasture systems, low antibiotic use, and marketing. U. of Minnesota College of Agriculture, Distribution Center, 20 Coffee Hall, 1420 Eckles Ave., St. Paul, MN 55108-6069, 1-800-876-8636. Marketing Sustainable Agriculture: Case Studies and Analysis from Europe. $15. Highlights successful marketing initiatives and analyzes why they are successful. Based on tour of six countries and symposium in Fall 1998. Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, 2105 First Ave. South, Minneapolis, MN 55404, 612-870-3411, vtran@iatp.org. Nebraska Rural Response Hotline. Provides financial, legal, mediation, and counseling services to Nebraska farm, ranch, and rural residents. 1-800-464-0258. Reclaiming our Rural Heritage: A Time to Act. $10. Examines changing structures of farming, livestock production, and rural community life. Catholic Charities, Attn: Marilyn Murphy, Box 1342, Sioux City, IA 51102, 712-255-4346. The USDA National Agroforestry Center has free resource materials describing how agroforestry is of value in educational programs addressing issues related to agricultural and food systems sustainability. One example is "Agroforestry for Farms and Ranches," a 26-page technical note describing the use of tree and shrub practices in agricultural land use settings. A new series of "Working Trees" brochures has also been released for: Agriculture, Livestock, Wildlife, and Communities. To obtain more information about the NAC or to order publications, see http://www.unl.edu/nac or contact Nancy Hammond, National Agroforestry Center, East Campus-UNL, Lincoln, NE 68583-0822, 402-437-5178, ext 24. New Web site dedicated to agricultural applications of biotechnology, http://www.biotech-info.net. COMING EVENTS Contact CSAS office for more information. 1999 Aug. 7 Specialty Crops Field Day, Lincoln, NE Aug. 24 Alternative Ag Expo: Diverse Systems that Work, South Sioux City, NE Oct. 12-15 Second National Small Farm Conference: Building Partnerships for the 21st Century, St. Louis, MO, http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc/ Oct. 20-23 North American Chapter Association for Farming Systems Research and Extension (AFSR/E) Biennial Meeting Sustaining Agriculture in the 21st Century: Thinking "Outside the Box," Guelph, Ontario, CA, http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/ Nov. 19-20 Developing Agricultural Marketing Skills for the New Millennium, Lincoln, NE 2000 Jan. 5-6 Mid-America Fruit Growers Conference, St. Joseph, MO Jan. 7-8 Great Plains Regional Vegetable Conference, St. Joseph, MO For additional events, see: http://www.sare.org/wreg/view_notice_adm.pl http://www.agnic.org/mtg/ # # # *********************** Pam Murray, Coordinator Center for Grassland Studies and Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems PO Box 830949 University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 phone: 402-472-9383 fax: 402-472-4104 e-mail: pmurray1@unl.edu http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/cgs http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 14:37:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25897 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA01135 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:14:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA01114 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.148] (br-ppp24.hevanet.com [198.5.254.148]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07443; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:14:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907161714.KAA07443@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:06:58 -0700 Subject: FW: Cutting Phosphorus in Dairy Cattle Feed From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1689 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Cutting Phosphorus in Dairy Cattle Feed Date: Fri, Jul 16, 1999, 8:00 AM STORY LEAD: Cutting Phosphorus in Dairy Cattle Feed Will Save Money, Help Environment ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov July 16, 1999 ---------- Feeding dairy cows 20 percent less phosphorus could save U.S. dairy producers $100 million a year and improve water quality, according to an Agricultural Research Service dairy scientist in Madison, Wis. Excess phosphorus in water--runoff from fields--can boost algae and aquatic plant growth in streams and lakes. Dairy producers have been overfeeding phosphorus to dairy cows. The National Research Council has recommended that dairy cows be fed about 3.8 grams of phosphorus per kilogram of feed dry matter. An average cow eats about 20 kilograms of dry matter per day. About a year ago, ARS dairy scientist Larry D. Satter conducted a telephone survey of more than 30 dairy nutritionists, extension specialists, feed industry representatives and nutrition consultants. He concluded that, in practice, dairy producers were feeding an average of 4.8 grams of phosphorus per kilogram of dry matter. That's 20 percent more than the typical dairy cow needs. Over the last 20 years, ARS and other research institutions have conducted 13 studies of nearly 800 milk-producing cows eating both high- and low-phosphorus diets. From these studies, Satter concludes, contrary to common belief, that cows fed high amounts of phosphorous had no enhanced reproductive performance compared to animals fed low phosphorus. Satter, based at the U.S. Dairy Forage Research Center in Madison will present these findings at the 1999 Four-State Applied Nutrition and Management Conference in LaCrosse, Wis., August 2-4. Conference attendees include dairy producers and representatives of the feed industry from Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. California, Wisconsin, New York, Minnesota and Pennsylvania are among the top dairy producing states. ARS is the chief scientific research agency for the U.S. Department of Agriculture. ---------- Scientific contact: Larry D. Satter, ARS U.S. Dairy Forage Research Center, Madison, Wis., phone (608) 264-5353, fax (608) 264-5147, lsatter@dfrc.wisc.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 14:53:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA26209 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA06115 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:32:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web601.mail.yahoo.com (web601.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA06032 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990716172931.11818.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web601.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:29:31 EDT Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:29:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: idea farm--farmers beware To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1690 hey SANETEERS, i was just paging through the New Jersey Business News for July 12, 1999 and an article with the title Idea Farm Plants Promos caught my eye. here is a summary with some direct quotes. begin summary... "Where can you find promoters in pinstripes mingling with farmers looking for solutions?" At a business just started by Total Research, a marketing research firm outside Princeton. They have created a wholly owned subsidiary called Idea Farm. It promotes all types of agriculture-related products, from pesticides to machinery. It does so through peer-selling, where a group of people from the same general vicinity in the agricultural community are invited to discuss common problems in their work. When the group discusses solutions, the moderator--an Idea Farm employee--introduces his client's product as a possible remedy. The company is targeting farmers around the country. Idea Farm may, for example, gather a group of cotton growers from the Delta region to talk about difficulties they face in raising their crops. When the group broaches the subject of bug infestation, the Idea Farm moderator flashes a new type of pesticide, and explains how the product might be beneficial to the farmers. "peer selling" its called. the article goes on and on about how effective this technique can be and the basic tone is that farmers will be an easy sell. End summary Have a good weekend everyone, kate _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 16:13:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA28593 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA06372 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:58:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA06318 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA20253; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:56:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2d-109.ix.netcom.com(209.110.255.109) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020182; Fri Jul 16 13:56:03 1999 Message-ID: <006701becfbc$861cfac0$b0fc6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Bargyla Rateaver" , Cc: "SANET-mg" Subject: Re: ACSH and mainstream media: misrepresent studies and reassures falseshoods Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:53:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1691 We will be "free" to get cancer when our food is properly labled and we can choose which chemcials to ingest. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Bargyla Rateaver To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Cc: SANET-mg Date: Friday, July 16, 1999 5:33 AM Subject: Re: ACSH and mainstream media: misrepresent studies and reassures falseshoods >Why should we worry about cancer-causing items? Already half,yes 50 %--1 in 2 >persons--in US have or will have cancer---already--so why worry? Just let >every other person you know have cancer--will anyway--why worry? It is just >part of life in the US, the greatest country in the world--never mind the >cancer statistics--we have liberty. Yep, you have all the rights and liberties >in the world, to get cancer if you want it. > >Bunny Snow wrote: > >> Both the American Council for Science and Health and some the U.S. >> mainstream media, I've found, are often misrepresenting studies and >> continually reassuring falsehoods whenever potentially important >> research has raised the concerns. I base my opinions on the >> well-referenced research of the RACHELs and the Environmental Research >> Foundation, as well as conferences attended, governmental and scientific >> paper secured. >> >> RACHEL's newsletters are well-researched, well-written and well-edited >> by Peter Montague, Ph.D., founder of the Environmental Research >> Foundation, a non-profit, unbiased, citizen's advocacy organization. In >> this and many other RACHEL's newsletters are references to the powerful >> ACSH, which apparently receives industrial enterprise dollars to defend >> any potential governmental, medical or judicial action in order to keep >> the public confused, ignorant, and therefore controlled, so their >> financial providers may continue unhindered. >> >> One only has to read through the publications of ACSH to better >> understand which industry is providing their funding. In fact, when I >> read that fluoride was good (despite the release of governmental >> scientific funding to the contrary) and that eggs and cholesterol does >> not contribute to heart disease, I wondered if these findings came from >> ACSH. And, when I carefully read the misinterpretation of the endocrine >> disruption studies, which ACSH has repeatedly called ''modulation'', I >> knew that ACSH was making the studies say words that original published >> studies and the government never used. In my believe, without going >> into this word by word, it is totally misrepresentation of honest >> scientists' work, which ACSH has spewed into the media to keep the >> general public confused and ignorant. >> >> A Wall Street Journal editorial, for example, cited that dioxins are >> natural and created in compost heaps. This is false. Dioxins, furans, >> PCBs and other toxic unregulated wastes may be found in compost heaps, >> if sewage (biosolids) or industrial sludge is used. Such wastes may >> contain cement clinker, which is used to stabilize wastes or as a soil >> additive. [See: Cement And Kiln Dust Contain Dioxins in RACHEL's #314. >> The URL for the Environmental Research Foundation is >> . >> >> In my opinion, ''science and health'' are more lip service to the >> industrial-funded scientists and policy makers at ACSH, the Wall Street >> Journal, and other propaganda-spewing media, whose real purpose is to >> protect ''corporate welfare''. >> >> BTW, I share this in full, so as not to take anything out of context, >> unlike what ACSH and their followers so cleverly continues to do. >> ~Bunny Snow >> ______________________________________ >> >> RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #656 >> ---June 24, 1999--- >> HEADLINES: >> A CAMPAIGN OF REASSURING FALSEHOODS >> >> A Campaign of Reassuring Falsehoods >> >> Evidently the permanent government in the U.S. now sees dioxin in the >> food supply as a threat to itself because it has begun a new campaign of >> reassuring falsehoods, this time in the WALL STREET JOURNAL. We use the >> term "permanent government" as it was described by Lewis Lapham, editor >> of >> HARPER'S MAGAZINE: >> >> "The permanent government, a secular oligarchy... comprises the Fortune >> 500 companies and their attendant lobbyists, the big media and >> entertainment syndicates, the civil and military services, the larger >> research universities and law firms. It is this government that hires >> the country's politicians and sets the terms and conditions under which >> the country's citizens can exercise their right --God-given but >> increasingly expensive --to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. >> Obedient to the rule of men, not laws, the permanent government oversees >> the production of wealth, builds cities, manufactures goods, raises >> capital, fixes prices, shapes the landscape, and reserves the right to >> assume debt, poison rivers, cheat the customers, receive the gifts of >> federal subsidy, and speak to the American people in the language of low >> motive and base emotion."[1] >> >> Lapham distinguishes the "permanent government," which is not elected, >> from the "provisional government," which is: >> >> "The provisional government is the spiritual democracy that comes and >> goes on the trend of a political season and oversees the production of >> pageants....Positing a rule of laws instead of men, the provisional >> government must live within the cage of high-minded principle, >> addressing its remarks to the imaginary figure known as the informed >> citizen or the thinking man, a superior being who detests >> superficial reasoning and quack remedies, never looks at PLAYBOY, >> remembers the lessons of history, trusts Bill Moyers, worries about >> political repression in Liberia, reads (and knows himself improved by) >> the op-ed page of the WALL STREET JOURNAL," Lapham writes. >> >> * * * >> >> Starting in March, Belgian health authorities discovered dioxin and PCBs >> in poultry, eggs, beef, pork, milk, butter and even in mayonnaise. >> Dioxin and PCBs are members of a family of 219 toxic chemicals that can >> damage the immune system and the hormones of humans and other animals. >> They can also cause cancer, according to the World Health Organization. >> [See REHW #636, #653.] The toxicity of dioxins and PCBs are reported in >> "toxic equivalents" -- a toxicity reporting system that takes into >> account the particular mixture of dioxins and PCBs that is being >> measured. >> >> In late April, the Dutch Ministry of Health notified the Belgians that >> they had measured dioxin in two chickens at 958 and 775 parts per >> trillion toxic equivalents. In Belgium, the allowable limit for dioxin >> in chicken is 5 ppt toxic equivalents, and in the U.S. the limit is one >> ppt.[2] >> >> Still Belgian authorities said nothing publicly. Then in early June word >> got out that Belgian foodstuffs were widely contaminated and the >> European Union and the U.S. clapped a quarantine on foods from Belgium. >> Other countries around the world immediately followed suit: Maylasia, >> Myanmar, Uruguay, Thailand, Australia, Brazil, Russia, and China, among >> others. Suddenly tons of food were pulled from shops throughout Belgium >> and incinerated, leaving shelves bare. Within two weeks, the incident >> had cost Belgian farmers, grocers and food exporters an estimated $500 >> million -- a lot of money in a small country. >> >> The problem was traced to 8 liters of oil containing PCBs contaminated >> with 50 to 80 milligrams of dioxin. The British NEW SCIENTIST says "one >> theory is" that the toxic oil was taken from an electrical transformer >> and dumped illegally into a public recycling container for used frying >> oil.[3] The contaminated oil ended up in an 88-ton (80 metric tonne) >> batch of fat produced by Verkest, a company located near Ghent, Belgium. >> The fat was sold to 12 manufacturers of animal feed, who then produced >> 1760 tons (1600 metric tonnes) of contaminated animal feed. Starting in >> January, 1999, the feed was sold mainly in Belgium but also in France >> and the Netherlands. >> >> According to CHEMICAL & ENGINEERING NEWS, at a public hearing June 9, a >> Dutch official said the problem had been solved in his country -- all of >> the contaminated foods had been eaten. No one is sure how many people >> were affected because no one is yet sure how widely the contaminated >> feed was distributed. "Either a few people got a large dose, or many >> people got a small dose," said Wim Traag from the Dutch State Institute >> for Quality Control of Agricultural Products. >> >> The NEW SCIENTIST quoted Martin van der Berg from the University of >> Utrecht who calculated that adults who ate chicken and eggs contaminated >> at 900 ppt would take in 100 times the amount considered "safe" by the >> World Health Organization. >> >> A 3-year-old child eating a single egg contaminated at 900 ppt toxic >> equivalents would increase his or her total body burden of dioxin >> equivalents by 20%, van der Berge calculated. He said this would >> probably not be enough to cause cancer in humans "but could affect >> neural and cognitive development, the immune system, and thyroid and >> steroid hormones, especially in unborn and young children," >> the NEW SCIENTIST reported. >> >> Two weeks into the crisis, on June 13, the Belgian government suffered a >> massive defeat in elections. The next day the WALL STREET JOURNAL >> announced the debacle this way: "The center-left coalition of Prime >> Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene suffered a devastating defeat in national >> elections Sunday, punished for its handling of a food contamination >> scandal...." Mr. Dehaene promptly resigned. >> >> Clearly, the political hazards of a dioxin-contaminated food supply were >> not lost on the permanent government in the U.S. Less than a week after >> the initial revelations about dioxin in Belgian foods, the WALL STREET >> JOURNAL began a campaign of disinformation. >> >> On June 7, the JOURNAL had one of its staff reporters, Stephen D. Moore, >> try to reassure its readers under the headline, "Dioxins' Risk to Humans >> is Difficult to Appraise."[4] >> >> The opening paragraph of the story did not mention that dioxins are >> toxic; it said dioxins are created by many industrial processes but also >> "in compost heaps." How could anyone develop a healthy respect for a >> chemical that originates in a pile of lawn clippings? No one fears the >> familiar. Very effective propaganda. >> >> In the second paragraph, the JOURNAL introduced the idea that dioxins >> are toxic: "While there are dozens of different dioxins and furans, a >> closely related family of molecules, only about a half-dozen are toxic." >> Not true, but effective propaganda nevertheless. >> >> Then the real point of Mr. Moore's work unfolds: a re-telling of the >> story of the 1976 accident at a Hoffman-LaRoche pesticide factory in >> Seveso, Italy, which spewed dioxin into the surrounding community. "At >> Seveso, a cloud of chemicals containing dioxin was released into the air >> and eventually contaminated an area of 15 square kilometers with a >> population of 37,000 people," the JOURNAL said. >> >> And what happened to these 37,000 people? The JOURNAL now quotes Roche, >> the company that caused the accident: 447 citizens of Seveso "developed >> skin injuries that healed within a few weeks." And, "Another 193 people, >> mainly children, developed cases of chloracne, a condition characterized >> by dark skin blotches, that take months or even years to disappear." And >> that's the extent of it. In the next sentence, the JOURNAL assures us >> that dioxin caused no permanent injuries at Seveso: "The Italian >> government has conducted studies of longer-term effects from the Seveso >> accident. At least so far, there's no evidence of any significant >> increase of miscarriages or cancer among local residents." Very >> reassuring, but completely untrue. >> >> Actually, the Italian government's chief researcher, Pier Alberto >> Bertazzi, has published a series of studies in peer-reviewed journals, >> beginning in 1993, showing that many people exposed to dioxins at Seveso >> have suffered a variety of serious long-term effects including increased >> incidence of diabetes, heart disease, and cancer, including cancers of >> the stomach and rectum, leukemias (cancer of the blood- forming >> cells), Hodgkin's disease, and soft tissue sarcomas.[5]-8 >> >> Now the JOURNAL returns to the theme that dioxins are natural: "Dioxins >> also can come from natural sources. One contamination case in the U.S. a >> few years ago resulted from the use of clay as a binder in chicken >> feed. American regulators eventually traced the contaminated clay to a >> quarry in the state of Arkansas and established that the source of the >> dioxins was prehistoric." [See REHW #555.] In actual fact, American >> regulators did no such thing -- they never did figure out where that >> dioxin came from -- but this is unvarnished propaganda, and effective as >> such. >> >> Evidently not satisfied with this series of misrepresentations, the WALL >> STREET JOURNAL on June 21 turned over its editorial page to Elizabeth >> Whelan, president of the American Council on Science and Health, a >> scheme-tank supported by the chemical industry. Ms. Whelan is, frankly, >> one of the crudest and most shameless dissemblers of our time. She >> launched her career as lapdog of the permanent government by falsifying >> the history of Alar, the cancer-causing farm chemical that used to be >> found in apple juice intended for babies in the U.S., before the apple >> industry came to its senses and swore off the poison in 1989. [See REHW >> #530-535.] >> >> In the WALL STREET JOURNAL June 21, Ms. Whelan assured her readers that >> ''there was no evidence" of "health-threatening toxic materials" in >> Belgian food. Oh? This is because, she says, "no one has ever died or >> become chronically ill due to environmental exposure [to dioxin]." Oh? >> The problem in Belgium is Belgium's "unnnecessarily stringent laws," Ms. >> Whelan asserts. >> >> The dioxin problem in Belgium was imaginary, Ms. Whelan assures us. It >> "can be explained as an example of hysterical contagion," Ms. Whelan >> asserts. She then waxes academic, quoting a college professor who says >> mass hysterias have been recorded throughout European history. On this >> basis, Ms. Whelan concludes that the fear of dioxin in Belgium is just >> like the Alar episode in the U.S. in 1989 -- a make-believe problem. >> >> It is interesting to us that the permanent government has to rely on >> such crude misrepresentations to reassure its loyal followers in the >> business community (those who read the op-ed page of the WALL STREET >> JOURNAL and know themselves improved by it). To us it means that the >> anti-dioxin campaign being conducted by grass-roots activists in the >> U.S. [see REHW #479] is having a good effect. No doubt the permanent >> government has reason to be nervous: they have contaminated the U.S. >> food supply with dangerous levels of dioxins and, as the Bible says, the >> truth will set people free. [See REHW #414, #463, #636.] >> >> --Peter Montague(National Writers Union, >> UAW Local 1981/AFL-CIO) >> >> ===== >> >> [1] Lewis H. Lapham, "Lights, Camera, Democracy!" HARPER'S MAGAZINE >> August 1996, pgs. 33-38, quoted with permission. >> >> [2] Bette Hileman, "Belgium has a problem: Dioxin-tainted food," >> CHEMICAL & ENGINEERING NEWS June 14, 1999, pg. 9. >> >> [3] Debora MacKenzie, "Recipe for disaster," NEW SCIENTIST No. 2190 >> (June 12, 1999), pg. 4. >> >> [4] Craig R. Whitney, "Food Scandal Adds to Belgium's Image of >> Disarray," NEW YORK TIMES June 9, 1999, pg. A4. >> >> [5] Pier Alberto Bertazzi and others, "Cancer Incidence in a Population >> Accidentally Exposed to 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzo-PARA-dioxin," >> EPIDEMIOLOGY Vol. 4 (September, 1993), pgs. 398-406. >> >> [6] P.A. Bertazzi, "The Seveso studies on early and long-term effects of >> dioxin exposure: a review," ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVES Vol. 106 >> Supplement 2 (April 1998), pgs. 625-633. >> >> [7] P.A. Bertazzi and others, "Dioxin exposure and cancer risk: a 15- >> year mortality study after the 'Seveso accident,'" EPIDEMIOLOGY Vol. 8, >> No. 6 (November 1997), pgs. 646-652. >> >> [8] A.C. Pesatori and others, "Dioxin exposure and non-malignant health >> effects: a mortality study," OCCUPATIONAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL MEDICINE >> Vol. 55, No. 2 (February 1998), pgs. 126-131. >> >> Descriptor terms: dioxin; food safety; belgium; >> >> ### >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 17:34:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA00845 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA19234 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:43:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19219 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-35.csj.net [12.29.22.35]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02954; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:43:18 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "'Lon J. Rombough'" Cc: Subject: Sorry Lon Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:33:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000701becfcb$dbeb6360$7ac3fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <199907161514.IAA15072@hevanet.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1692 I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of this. I actually thought you might be their publicist. Please continue to post those gems, they provide us with hours of entertainment. Donna Fezler -----Original Message----- From: Lon J. Rombough [SMTP:lonrom@hevanet.com] Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 10:16 AM To: gcr@rhealiving.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Who is ACSH? A classic example of academia run amuck PLEASE REMEMBER THAT I AM NOT "PUBLISHING" ANYTHING - SIMPLY PASSING ALONG ITEMS FROM ONE OF THE NEWS SERVICES I SUBSCRIBE TO. NO CONNECTION, ENDORSEMENT, SUPPORT OR CRITICISM OF THE ARTICLES IS INTENDED OR IMPLIED - I AM JUST PASSING THEM ALONG SO THAT OTHERS MAY READ THEM. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong - I'm not interested in getting flamed again. -Lon ---------- >From: "Donna Fezler" >To: >Subject: Who is ACSH? A classic example of academia run amuck >Date: Fri, Jul 16, 1999, 7:53 AM > > >A while back Lon published the "news" release about the ARS discovering a To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 17:57:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA01273 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA03669 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:15:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03509 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:14:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.54] (ppp-206-170-32-54.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.54]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11144; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:12:14 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Shortcomings: toxicity testing protocols Cc: klemme@aae.wisc.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1693 Howdy, all-- Re: the ongoing discussion of peer review, research protocols, critique of existing methodology, funding channels, and the power to determine what is True. Re: ACSH's assertion about the lack of evidence on endocrine disruption by environmental toxins. If you want a well-referenced, peer-reviewed article by Certified Real Scientists (TM, R, Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.) that goes into some of the existing published research on the incidence of system dysfunction (nervous, immune, endocrine, and developmental disorders) as related to exposures to environmental chemicals, as well as the research gaps, see: Endocrine, immune, and behavioral effects of aldicarb (carbamate), atrazine (triazine), and ntirate (fertilizer) mixtures at groundwater concentrations. Warren P. Porter, James W. Jaeger, Ian Carlson /Toxicology and Industrial Health/ (1999) 15, 133-150 $12 per copy; http://www.stockton-press.co.uk The authors discuss six shortcomings in the toxicological testing protocols currently used in determining the safety of registered pesticides: --Pulse doses (single exposure) at low concentrations are not considered. Pulse doses at critical developmental times in, say, the human fetus or in children, may lead to developmental changes. In the real world, that timing of exposure is important--but it hasn't been built into some experiments, which have nevertheless gone on to conclude that such effects *don't* happen. In other words, if you swing a mallet at somebody's head two seconds after they pass by, it'd be inaccurate to assume that the mallet can't cause head injury. --Toxicological testing evaluates only one route of exposure at a time, rather than looking at all possible routes of exposure (oral, skin, respiratory, etc.), and bases conclusions upon that route. --Toxicological tests have typically focused on cancer and mutation endpoints. Immune, nervous system, endocrine, and developmental ones have not been widely considered. --Most toxicological testing is done with highly pure forms of pesticidal active ingredients, rather than with the commercial formulations, which include all kinds of additives. These can alter both the pesticides' properties, in the real world, and influence the route of exposure. Manufacturing processes can allow substances to find their way from one manufacturing stream to the other--either intentionally or unintentionally. And "inert" ingredients are added to strengthen delivery of the pesticide to the living system. In other words, farmers aren't out there spraying laboratory-grade pure chemicals, and that's not what all of us are eating, breathing, and absorbing thru our skin. --There is little or no testing of how the chemicals act upon biological systems in mixtures. While it isn't possible to examine all possible mixtures experimentally, it *is* possible to examine common mixtures that occur or have occurred in specific areas, which is what this article does. --Nutritional, disease, climate, and other stresses on the organism are not taken into account. Lab animals generally live in an environment where such stresses are absent, and Porter's 1984 article in /Science/, "Toxicant-disease-enviornment interactions associated with suppression of immune system, growth, and reproduction," shows that where these stresses are present, toxic responses to registered chemicals show up that do no appear under current standard testing procedures. As for the larger discussion topic here on SANET. Ya know, I think this cow wanders around the barn even when we're all not here. :^) But I'm glad, because it's an important topic. Anyone who has ever administered a research program can tell you, a systems analysis and evaluation of an effective research program requires a consideration of institutional biases in constructing hypotheses, choosing foci, and targeting funds. I can't believe that, in 1999, anyone would be surprised that someone raised this as a question or an issue. In my not very humble opinion, it's time for the hard-line scientist types at places like ACSH to stop aggrandizing themselves by pointing out what we already know--that cutting-edge research hasn't yet been done on crucial questions that are formulated but not funded. And to start working on moving the physics of funding toward those questions. If they truly care about "truth," they'll want to see the maximum number of hypotheses tested, regardless of whether they personally benefit from this or build fame for themselves. Rather than sitting smugly enthroned upon the soft tower of already published papers, and taking a poke at anyone who tries to climb up and get their attention. These days, truth, like justice, costs money, and as an old homeless man down near the cable car terminus on Powell St. once told me, "Ya gotta pay to play, and ya gotta play to win, and I guess I just can't pay." peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As crude a weapon as the cave man's club, the chemical barrage has been hurled against the fabric of life. --Rachel Carson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 19:39:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA02506 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA19006 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:55:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA18927 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.54] (ppp-206-170-1-252.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.252]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27576 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:55:20 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Warren Porter journal article Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1694 Howdy, all-- Warren e-mailed me to say that the article in /Toxicology and Industrial Health/ which I referred you to earlier today is available at his Web site: http://www.nceas.ucsb.edu/~porter/endo.pdf You will need Adobe Acrobat to read that .pdf file. I couldn't check this URL out--I'm having some stability problems with my Netscape release *and* my dial-up connection. Gosh, I'm so glad that big corporations are taking over telecommunications and computing, and making them so much more efficient. :^) peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 16 21:08:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03537 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA27873 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:18:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA27653 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d22-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.22]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA30225; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:17:34 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Wilson, Dale" , "SANET-mg" Cc: "'Misha'" Subject: RE: Who is ACSH? & Why are they discrediting claims of certain sy nethetic chemicals endangering the endocrine systems of human? Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:22:22 +1000 Message-ID: <000201becfea$707eaf00$163325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE1F@vela.phibred.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1695 I think that one problem likely to arise in this area of research is that the targetted 'endocrine disrupters' are not alone in disrupting hormonal systems, and that the many substances involved are pervasive in the environment and diet in the modern world. This may make it easier for the substances under criticism to try to shift blame. (It's happening anyway, it can't be me) I am also of the view that the fragmentary nature of reductionist science has entrenched too many false facts derived from this peculiarly atomistic view of how the world works. And thus that research findings in many fields are going to be suspect. There is a problem of research focussed on the minutiae and ignoring the fact that systems are more complicated than brick walls. The peer review system seems to have been set up for the very best of motives (to put research effort into the most important areas and see that work is properly assessed before being published), but along the way (as is the case with any socio-political institutions) the system has acquired its own preoccupations: - it has led to a situation where it severely inhibits the articulation of contrarian opinion, and reinforces the perpetuation of some bad science. Is there, for example, a citation to demonstrate 'HIV probably causes AIDS'? No? [ http://duesberg.com/kintro.html ] Does that mean that the focus of research is to test the proposition, to test contrary propositions, or is new research based on 'false fact' that 'HIV probably causes AIDS'? The latter of course. Gilbert Ling's research on cellular physics is the basis of the MRI scanner technology, but Gilbert Ling questions the membrane theory of the cell, on grounds that it does not make sense in physics. Gilbert Ling [ http://www.gilbertling.org/ ] is denied official research funding and is supported in a laboratory by the maker of the MRI scanner. These are not peripheral questions but issues central to science and politics; I suspect that they are not exceptional cases, but symptomatic of pervasive problems with science. John Brockman says [ http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/diamond/diamond_p1.html that Jared Diamond is trying to turn history into a science. I'm not sure that's what Diamond's history writing is, but the idea seems to me to be the wrong way around. We have see science as more like history: - to turn our view of science into something more sensible, to see it, like history, as a cultural construct, a language construct, a fallible construction of ideas. We need to recognise that research makes hypothesis and the teaching of hypothesis tends to create 'fact' and dogma and orthodoxy and to demand conformity (in which respect economics is also a 'science', I guess). While the foundation of science is in processes of testing and proof, it drifts away from that in the hands of humans. Hence it is entirely appropriate to doubt, and unwise to assume that the protection of vested interests, in careers or money, arises always altruistically even when pursued intellectually. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 17 01:48:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA06517 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:48:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA09240 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:07:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eye.micron.net (eye.micron.net [198.60.253.88]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA09183 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (cboi07p02.boi.micron.net [206.206.37.3]) by eye.micron.net (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA06084 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37900F95.1C6F@micron.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:07:33 -0600 From: The Schraders Reply-To: bschrade@micron.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: DE, kelp meal, fish meal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1696 I am in the Boise Idaho area and am having trouble finding a nearby source of a few things I am looking for. Maybe someone can help me pay less than a small fortune for shipping??!!! DE kelp meal (Algit? Thorvin?) fish meal (Fertrell's Sea-Lac?) Fertrell's Nutri Balancer for poultry that's my shopping list...thanks fo rany help... --Diane To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 17 03:33:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA07155 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 03:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA21501 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:50:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.iitb.ac.in (mailhost.iitb.ac.in [202.54.44.115]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA21467 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25010 invoked from network); 17 Jul 1999 06:59:43 -0000 Received: from manashi.hss.iitb.ernet.in (144.16.104.2) by mailhost.iitb.ac.in with SMTP; 17 Jul 1999 06:59:43 -0000 Received: from localhost (dp@localhost) by manashi.hss.iitb.ernet.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA05035 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:09:03 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:09:03 +0530 (IST) From: "d.parthasarathy" To: sanet-mg Subject: sfp-13: Monsanto extends global control from seed to water (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1697 Thought this might be of interest to saneters D.Parthasarathy ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:26:31 -0400 From: Eric Fawcett To: sfp lists , sfpint@physics.utoronto.ca, sfpont@physics.utoronto.ca, sfptor@physics.utoronto.ca Subject: sfp-13: Monsanto extends global control from seed to water http://www.zmag.org/Commentaries/donorform.htm ZNet Commentary MONSANTO NOW EXPANDING MONOPOLIES FROM SEED TO WATER ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ by Dr. Vandana Shiva Over the past few years, Monsanto, a chemical company, has positioned itself as an agricultural company through control over seed the first link in the food chain. Monsanto now wants to control water, the very basis of life. In 1996, Monsanto bought the biotechnology assets of Agracetus, a subsidiary of W.R. GRACE, for $150 million and Calagene, a California based plant biotechnology company for $340 million. In 1997, Monsanto acquired Holden seeds, the Brazilian seed company Sementes Agrocerus and Asgrow. In 1998, Monsanto purchased Cargill's seed operations for $1.4 billion. It bought Delta and Pine land for $1.82 billion and Dekalb for $2.3 billion. It bought Unilever's European wheat breeding business for $525 million. In India Monsanto has bought Mahyco, Maharashtra Hybrid Company, E.I.D. Parry and Rallis. Mr.Jack Kennedy of Monsanto has stated "We propose to penetrate the Indian Agricultural sector in a big way. MAHYCO is a good vehicle." According to Robert Farley of Monsanto "what you are seeing is not just a consolidation of seed companies, it is really a consolidation of the entire food chain. Since water is an central to food production as seed is, and without water life is not possible. Monsanto is now trying to establish its control over water. During 1999 Monsanto plans to launch a new water business, starting with India and Mexico since both these countries are facing water shortages. Monsanto is seeing a new business opportunity in water because of the emerging water crisis and the funding available to make this vital resource available to people. As it states in its strategy paper, "first we believe that discontinuities (either major policy changes or major trendline breaks in resource quality or quantity) are likely, particularly in the area of water and we will be well positioned via these business to profit even more significantly when these discontinuities occur. Second, we are exploring the potential of non-conventional financing (NGO's, World Bank, USDA etc.) that may lower our investment or provide local country business building resources." Thus, the crisis of pollution and depletion of water resources is viewed by Monsanto as a business opportunity. For Monsanto "Sustainable Development" means the conversion of an ecological crisis into a market of scarce resources. "The business logic of sustainable development is that population growth and economic development will apply increasing pressure on natural resource markets. These pressures and the world's desire to prevent the consequences of these pressures if unabated, will create vast economic opportunity when we look at the world through the lens of sustainability we are in a position to see current and foresee impending resource market trends and imbalances that create market needs. We have further focussed this lens on the resource market of water and land. These are the markets that are most relevant to us as a life sciences company committed to delivering "food, health and hope" to the world, and there are markets in which there are predictable sustainability challenges and therefore opportunities to create business value." Monsanto plans to earn revenues of $420 million and net income of $63 million by 2008 from its water business in India and Mexico. By the year 2010 about 2.5 billion people in the world are projected to lack access to safe drinking water. At least 30% of the population in China, India, Mexico and US is expected to face severe water stress. By the year 2025 the supply of water in India will be 700 cubic kilometers per year while the demand is expected to rise to 1050 units. Control over this scarce and vital resource will of course be a source of guaranteed profits. As John Bastin of the European Bank of Reconstruction and Development has stated "Water is the last infrastructure frontier for Private investors." Monsanto estimates that providing safe water is a several billion dollar market. It is growing at 25 - 30% in rural communities and is estimated to be $300 million by the year 2000 in India and Mexico. This is the amount currently spent by NGO's for water development projects and local government water supply schemes and Monsanto hopes to tap these public finances for providing water to rural communities and convert water supply into market. The Indian Government spent over $ 1.2 billion between 1992-97 for various water projects whicle the World Bank spent $900 million. Monsanto would like to divert this public money from public supply of water to establishing Monsanto's water monopoly. Since in rural areas the poor cannot pay, in Monsanto's view "Capturing a piece of the value created for this segment will require the creation of a non-traditional mechanism targeted at building relationships with local government and NGO's as well as through innovative financing mechanisms, such as microcredit. Monsanto also plans to penetrate the Indian market for safe water by establishing a joint venture with Eureka Forbes / TATA, which controls 70% of the UV Technologies. To enter the water business Monsanto has acquired an equity stake in Water Health International (WHI) with an option to buy the rest of the business. Monsanto will also buy a Japanese company which has developed electrolysis technology. The joint venture with TATA / Eureka Forbes is supposed to provide market access, and fabricate, distribute, service water systems, Monsanto will leverage their brand equity in the Indian Market. The joint venture route has been chosen so that "Monsanto can achieve management control over local operations but not have legal consequences due to local issues." Another new business that Monsanto is starting in 1999 in Asia in aquaculture. The aquaculture business will build on the foundation of Monsanto's agricultural biotechnology and capabilities for fish feed and fish breeding. By 2008 Monsanto expects to earn revenues of $1.6 billion and net income of $266 million from its aquaculture business. While Monsanto's entry into aquaculture is through its Sustainable Development activity, industrial aquaculture has been established to be highly non sustainable. The Supreme Court of India had banned industrial shrimp farming because of it's catastrophic consequences. However, the government, under pressure of the aquaculture industry, is attempting to change the laws, to undo the Supreme Court order. At the same time, attempts are being made by the World Bank to privatise water resources and establish trade in water rights. These trends will suit Monsanto well in establishing its new Water Business and Aquaculture business. The World Bank has already offered to help. As the Monsanto strategy paper states "We are particularly enthusiastic about the potential of partnering with the International Finance Corporation (IFC) of the World Bank to joint venture projects in developing markets. The IFC is eager to work with Monsanto to commercialise sustainability opportunities and would bring both investment capital and on the ground capabilities to our efforts." Monsanto's Water and Aquaculture Business, like it's seed business, is aimed at controlling vital resources necessary for survival, converting them into a market and using public finances to underwrite the investments. A more efficient conversion of public goods into private profit would be difficult to find. Water is however too basic for life and survival. The right to water is the right to life. The privatisation and commodification of water is a threat to the right to life. India has had major water movements to conserve and share water. The Pani Panchayat and the water conservation movement in Maharashtra and Tarun Bharat Sangh in Alwar, have regenerated and equitably shared water as a commons. This is the only way that everyone will have the right to water and nobody will have the right to abuse and overuse water. Water is a commons and must be managed as a commons. It cannot be controlled and sold by a Life Sciences Corporation that peddles in Death. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 17 15:55:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA13362 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA20892 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:12:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA20825 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26728 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA09488; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-6.nidlink.com [216.18.141.13]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA14949; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907171911.MAA14949@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:20:24 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Assessment of Monsanto Claim re RR Beans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1698 Charles Margulis of Greenpeace posted an interesting article from a German newspaper featuring a point-counterpoint exchange involving Greenpeace International Executive Director Thilo Bode and Dr. Robert Frawley, the head of Monsanto's agricultural division. An excerpt on the impacts of Roundup Ready soybeans appears below. "Die Woche [the newspaper interviewer]: What are the concrete benefits of Green Gentech? Frawley: For example, our biotech soybeans are resistant to roundup herbicides. It has lowered the production cost of soybeans by 20%. The farmers can now change their farming practices; they no longer have to plough the soil, which reduces erosion. For the consumer, the new product has helped to control the cost of a basic food commodity." Having just completed and released a report on Roundup Ready soybean yield drag (see Ag Biotech InfoNet at , click on item number 1; it is a PDF file), the above claim that RR soybeans have reduced farmer's "production costs 20 percent" caught my eye. I have never heard such a claim nor seen any research or analysis that even comes close to supporting such a remarkable finding. If this were true, RR soybeans would be among the most dramatic advances in agricultural profitability ever. Based on my analysis, the RR soybean system technology fee, coupled with the yield drag, result in increased costs between $20.00 and $35.00 per acre on average across all farms adopting the technology. To place Frawley's claim in perspective, I turned to official USDA soybean cost of production data. All the data below are from the USDA website, accessible at . This table presents historic soybean cost of production data for the North Central U.S., the region where most U.S. soybeans are grown. Other tables accessible through the ERS "Briefing Room" present data on other regions. * 1997 full cost of production, what the ERS calls "total economic costs" -- $249.58 per acre, or $5.45 per bushel based on the average yield that year of 45.75 bushels. This was the highest average yield ever recorded, so it somewhat understates costs per bushel over the last say five years. * 20 percent of $249.58 costs per acre is $49.92; so RR soybeans reduce costs by $49.92 according to Dr. Frawley. * 1997 average seed plus chemicals cash expenses were $48.45 per acre. So even if Monsanto gave away the seed and chemicals it still would not reduce costs 20 percent, given the average 6 percent yield drag. * Roundup Ready seed plus the technology fee definitely costs more than otherwise genetically similar conventional varieties (and of course about 4 times more than on farms where growers replant seed from the prior crop year). The best estimate is that the RR soybean seed plus technology fee raises costs at least $8.00 per acre compared to otherwise similar seed. So to compensate for an $8.00 premium, other costs would have to fall by $57.92 -- or 73.4% of total variable cash expenses (total in 1997 was $78.86, and covers seed, fertilizer, pesticides, custom operations, fuel, electricity, repairs, hired labor). * The only way RR soybeans could lower "costs of production [presumably per bushel] 20 percent" would be by achieving a roughly 25% increase in yields. That is obviously not happening, and not even Monsanto would make such a claim. While a few farmers experiencing problems with their weed management systems achieve higher yields when they plant RR soybeans, the majority of soybean growers in the U.S. aggressively and successfully manage weeds. On average across all soybean producers and in the aggregate, the RR soybean yield drag depresses yields far more than yields are increased on the farms that benefiting from higher yields. The major advantage to most farmers adopting the technology is increased flexibility and simplicity in weed management -- clearly, these are major advantages for those growers that are not interested in adopting Integrated Weed Management systems. One wonders why Monsanto feels it has to go beyond these proven advantages in its public statements. The 20 percent reduction in costs claim is even more ludicrous relative to the thousands of farmers saving their own soybean seed and using sustainable agricultural systems. On these farms, growers consistently harvest comparable or higher yields at costs equal to or lower than conventional growers. Indeed, skilled growers using sustainable agricultural methods often produce soybeans at costs per bushel well below conventional neighbors. They are able to do so because there are a wide range of proven, effective non-chemical or reduced-chemical weed management systems. Most entail two to three passes with a rotary hoe and cultivator, at a cost of $12.00 to $18.00 per acre -- less than many other farmers spend on herbicides. Biotech promoters wonder why people are slow to believe in the health, environmental risk, grower benefits and "feed the world" claims made by Dr. Frawley, Monsanto, and others in the biotech industry. One reason is the gap between facts and claims such as RR soybeans reduce production costs 20 percent. chuck benbrook For more details, see Ag BioTech InfoNet, Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 18 01:32:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA19940 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 01:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA20774 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:56:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA20660 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.68] [199.175.106.68] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m115izN-0006drC for ; Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:55:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:57:42 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1153 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1699 BELGIUM-DIOXIN SCANDAL July 16 /99 AP BRUSSELS, Belgium -- Belgian lawmakers were cited as beginning an inquiry Friday into what caused farm feed to become contaminated with dioxin last month, leading to a worldwide ban on Belgian food. The story says that the legislative inquiry must determine how fats tainted with cancer-causing dioxin could have been delivered to feed makers. The scandal has cost Belgium billions of dollars in trade. Separately, the story says that Belgian farmers complained that experts determining which farms can resume deliveries to slaughterhouses are moving too slowly and urged the new government of Premier Guy Verhofstadt to replace them. Tens of thousands of pigs, cows and chickens are languishing in crowded conditions on Belgian farms. During a recent spell of hot weather, farm animals suffocated by the thousands in cramped, overheated conditions. Probably the question we don't want to ask is, why are the animals in "cramped, overheated consitions." Maroc on Vancouver Island where some animals have elbow room and shade To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 18 13:19:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26128 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA03309 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 12:51:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03293 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 12:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dewitt.iastate.edu (dewitt.agron.iastate.edu [129.186.20.17]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA08304; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:51:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990718114928.007724d4@exnet.iastate.edu> X-Sender: x1dewitt@exnet.iastate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:49:29 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Jerry DeWitt Subject: Sustainable Agriculture Photography Cc: cynthia.vagnetti@pressroom.com, dirck.halstead@pressroom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1700 More than three years ago I had the opportunity to begin a creative partnership with a talented black and white photographer from Washington DC, Cynthia Vagnetti, who had been traveling across America documenting the people working on the land. She captured their voices and images and worked across the sustainable agriculture community in the Midwest and western states. Our combined interests led us to a multi-year project starting on the road in 1998, People Sustaining the Land. This project has taken us through 38 states driving more than 50,000 miles and interacting with more than 27 farm and ranch familes over two to three visits from coast to coast. The first glimpse of a portion of work and some of Cynthia's early work is now avalable at The Digital Journalist website: http://digitaljournalist.org/contents.html This award-winning site is the creation of Time Magazine Senior White House Photographer, Dirck Halstead. We are particularly pleased and honored to be featured in the July edition of the The Digital Jounalist, and to bring our message and work in sustainable agriculture to an even wider audience. Look,see,and hear the messages of a sustainable agriculture by the people on the land.... Jerry DeWitt Iowa State University To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 18 16:35:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA28194 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11196 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:01:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11165 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.60]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990718200105.WAKL4651@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:01:05 +0000 Message-ID: <37923253.DE38CB8@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:00:19 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: Victims of those who poison for profit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1701 If the USEPA re-registers Dursban, they are listening solely to those who poison for profit and benefit from its sales. Here is one of many victims of this poison, and I know of many. http://www.herald-mail.com/news/1996/12/01/local/At_odds_with_his_world.html Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 18 17:00:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA28429 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA23154 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:28:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23108 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from computer (ip113.ts8.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.85.113]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with ESMTP id QAA12963 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907182027.QAA12963@cyberus.ca> From: "Gord Hawkes" To: "'sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: The real problem with farming--conventional, sustainable, or organic Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:10:14 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1702 Greg. Has this thread not appeared over the last year under a number of different subject lines? We all have our own views and opinions and I respect every last one! However, the new sustainable/organic farmer is more than a steward of the land - he/she is a revolutionary with revolutionary approaches to all facets of farming. Contemporary economics has little to no meaning when applied to sustainable agriculture other than at the most basic levels i.e. "supply and demand". At one time demand had to be cultivated and nurtured and brought along in a gentle fashion using almost maternal techniques. But demand for organic healthful produce has steadily increased to the point that it is overtaking supply. What is more, the growing concern over estrogen inducing growth hormones and the overuse of organophospate insecticides is raising awareness in the aging baby boomers - they want health giving foods and are establishing ralationships with growers directly. Faith Popcorn in the Popcorn Report and David Foot in Boom, Bust & Echo have both identified that small farms producing healthful quality produce and products will pave the road in meeting the growing demands of the aging boomers - quality will win out! Greg you indicate that you believe that very few farms are supporting families. I believe some are and in many cases off farm income is required. This is based on choice in some circumstances and necessity in others. I work off the farm but my wife works on the farm allowing her to raise our children and manage the day-to-day affairs of the farm. The farm allows us to cultivate in our children the graces of nature, respect, interaction with the public - it also provides them with a sense of and appreciation for hard work and a source of income. Most urbanite family units have both parents working outside the home, their children are raised by caregivers, they have little time and ability to appreciate the simple pleasures of life and in most cases both adult members of the family unit work as a result of necessity. Who is nearer the poverty line? If we chose to develop value added product lines to our farm operation and endeavoured to market our products with a bit more effort I am convinced that our farm operation could largely support our family. We must realize that gone are the days of sow, grow, harvest and sell. Marketing now plays a major part in the small sustainable farm operation - this is reality! New Zealand went through a turbulent period with lamb production a number of years ago maybe not as severe as with hogs in N.A. but they were able to turn the corner with marketing zeal and the use of other creative means. Please don't get me wrong - I have not walked a mile in your mocassins so I am entirely unaware of your situation but I believe in the adage that when a window appears to close ever so quietly a door is opening. Best regards, Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, On Canada demand.been overtaken by demand as a result of nand motherly fashionAt 09:27 PM 7/11/99 -0500, you wrote: > This latest thread on social and political aspects of agriculture has >been interesting. However, I think the real problem out here with >agriculture is the fact that very few farms are actually supporting >families. I would think that sustainable and organic farms are doing at >least as good of a job in this aspect as conventional farms. Any research >on this? Unless I am an excellent marketer(I'm not!), I have no choice >but to figure out how to make a living within this industrialised >agriculture system. Unless I could convince my family that money was not >important, I have to make a decent profit. > I think the sustainable agriculture movement has made some great strides >in forcing us to question why we would even want a place in this current >industrialised agriculture. But we will never really change the fact that >sustainablity has to include enough profit to keep the farm going and >transferred to the next generation. That isn't exactly an easy task in >this current ag situation. Should living close to poverty be a necessity >to farm? (I guess that is better than filing bankruptcy like a large >percentage of the hog farmers in this area already have!!!!) And if we are >an extremely low cost producer with very little debt should we really have >to direct market? And can we pretty much expect absolutely no help in the >midwest on marketing and small farm support? Do you think my land grant >read that one? > I'm afraid we are down to the last generation of family farms in this >country unless something changes drastically and soon. The sustainable and >organic community might win a few battles but I'm afraid the war is going >to be lost to the industrial giants. >Just my 2 cents and rambling, >Greg Gunthorp > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 18 19:04:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA29949 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 19:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA20948 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:29:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA20904 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA16387 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 18:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA10112 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm9-12.nidlink.com [216.18.141.67]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA28634 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907182229.PAA28634@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:37:49 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Thoughts about Mr. B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1703 As many of you know, Congressman George Brown passed away a few days ago. I worked for Mr. B. for three years, 1981-1983, the first three years of the Reagan Presidency. I was the ED of the ag subcommittee Brown chaired (then called Dept. Operations, Research and Foreign Agriculture, or DORFA). Skip Stiles, who worked for Cong. Brown for over 20 years I think, did ag issues in Brown's personal office back then, and ran the subcommittee for a number of years after I went to the NAS Board on Agriculture. In the early 1980s many of the laws key to the sustainable ag community today took shape in that subcommittee. Mr. Brown's principles and quiet leadership were critical and helped assure that at least some of the legislation passed by the ag committee in that era served the public's broader and longer-term interest. George Brown was a deeply thoughtful and principled man. He was a Quaker, and a scientist/engineer. He felt that politics was an honorable professional and that people of good will could make the political process work in the public's interest. I am sure his faith in the political process was tested in his last years, but I am also sure he maintained it to the end. He was very interested in the applications of science to food production and the food system. We held more hearings on S+T issues than any other. Like then Cong. Gore, Mr. B. was definitely bitten by the information systems and biotechnology bugs. He also believed that the complex, often contentious intersections of science-technology-agriculture-safety-regulation were among the toughest tests of our public institutions and goverance processes. He worked during his long career in Congress to try to sustain a place for reason and facts in the way society works through contentious issues with a large dose of the inherently unknowable. After working for Cong. Brown I had the good fortune to work for Bill Brown, then chair of the old (and long gone) Board on Agriculture, NRC/NAS. Bill Brown was then the Chairman of the Pioneer Board and Emeritus-CEO of Pioneer. I worked with Bill Brown for about 5 years. He passed away in the late 1980s, I can't remember the date. Bill Brown and George Brown had much in common, their faith, their respect for people, openness to ideas, sharp minds that could isolate wisdom from facts, and above all, compassion. They were able to engage tough issues with big stakes without tearing anyone, or anything down. These two Browns were statesman and scholars. They are and will be missed. One wonders whether, and from where a new generation of agricultural sector statesmen will emerge. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 18 22:21:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01505 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21647 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:41:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [216.12.0.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA21487 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17726 invoked from network); 19 Jul 1999 01:36:14 -0000 Received: from c3s3m34.cfw.com (HELO cfw.com) (216.12.54.85) by milo.cfw.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 1999 01:36:14 -0000 Message-ID: <37928264.5DB4545A@cfw.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:41:56 -0400 From: Jeff Ishee X-Sender: "Jeff Ishee" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Avery vs. Salatin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1704 Friends, On Wednesday, July 28, Dennis Avery and Joel Salatin will be debating modern agricultural practices and policies on the "Valley Farm Forum", hosted by WSVA radio (AM 550) in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. These gentlemen are two of the most widely known and respected agricultural speakers in North America, if not the world. They both travel extensively throughout the year addressing the concerns of farmers and the industry of agriculture; however, they are as diametrically opposed in their viewpoints as anyone can possibly be when it comes to modern agricultural practices and policies. Dennis Avery is Director of the Center for Global Food Issues, a project of the Hudson Institute, and is a former senior agricultural analyst to the U.S. State Department. He is author of the 1995 book entitled "Saving the Planet With Pesticides and Plastics: The Environmental Triumph of High-Yield Farming." Dennis Avery resides with his family at their farm in the tiny community of Swoope, Virginia. Joel Salatin is an active farmer, producing and marketing poultry, beef, pork and other farm products directly from his farm to a loyal customer base of four hundred families and twenty white tablecloth restaurants. He was one of the founders of an organization called the Virginia Association for Biological Farming, and has written three books, the most recent entitled "You Can Farm: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Start and Succeed in a Farming Enterprise." Joel resides with his family at their farm in, yes, the tiny community of Swoope, Virginia. I would like to solicit questions from this list-serve for either Mr. Avery or Mr. Salatin for possible use on the radio program. Preliminary prototype questions include: *Mr. Avery, you've written in the past that the most important benefit of modern farming is higher yields per acre. You say that not only do higher yields cut costs, but they leave us with more room for nature. You've also said that you are not certain that high-yield agriculture can feed everyone and save all the wildlife habitat. But, you say that you are certain that low-yield agriculture cannot. How did you arrive at this conclusion? *Mr. Salatin, you say in your most recent book that, as a young agricultural writer for the Staunton newspaper several years ago, you had the opportunity to get deeply in touch with the agriculture community and with farmers. You say that you heard story after horror story, saw sick animals, bankrupt middle-aged farmers, and countless young men who had inherited farms, and then lost them. You say that you saw behind the (quoting here) "curtain of the charade" and you realized that for all the promises and posturing of the agri-industrial complex, it is a dead-end street. How did you come to such a dramatic conclusion? *Mr Avery, you wrote in a Hudson Briefing Paper in 1996 that the "large increase in world food needs during the next fifty years will amplify the consequences of any policies and practices that lower farm productivity." What sort of consequences are you speaking of? *Mr. Salatin, you've gone on record as saying that farmers sometimes ask the wrong questions, and that since our paradigms define the limits of our questions, our paradigms also define the limits of our creativity. For example, you say that while the organic community runs around trying to figure out how to have a certified organic cattle feedlot, they should be asking "Why have a feedlot, Why feed ruminants grain at all?" You say that while the sustainable ag community is tripping over itself with Integrated Pest Management to reduce pesticide applications, they should be asking "Why grow corn?" If we don't feed grain to our cattle, and we don't grow corn, where does this leave the American farmer? Please submit your questions by e-mail to: farmsted@cfw.com Also, if there is sufficient interest in a printed transcript of the two-hour live broadcast, please indicate your interest as soon as possible. Price will be at our costs. Sincerely, Jeff Ishee Farm Director, WSVA Radio P.O. Box 752 Harrisonburg, VA 22801 (540) 886-9394 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 01:43:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA03374 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA19369 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:56:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA19305 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.147] (ppp-206-170-0-147.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.147]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05714; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37928264.5DB4545A@cfw.com> References: <37928264.5DB4545A@cfw.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:55:46 -0700 To: Jeff Ishee From: Misha Subject: Re: Avery vs. Salatin Cc: SANET-mg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1705 Howdy, all-- Jeff Ishee asked for input on interview questions for Dennis Avery and Joel Salatin. My offering is this: Dennis, for many years now you've witnessed to how miserable smaller scale and other farmers are, and offered your thoughts on how large-scale corporate technology and economic structures can save them. While finding fault with the solutions that successful small scale farmers have created for themselves. You say you have deep experience with farmers, but it's hard to determine what that means. You talk a lot about their misery, their struggles, their suffering and failures--which indicates that you're most familiar with a certain group of farmers. [Assuming he's familiar with farmers at all, rather than mass mediated or corporate PR representations of them, but I digress.] Therefore, would you accept the challenge of a group of successful small farmers and small farm and food activists to take an unpaid year (or two or three) off from your prestigious, high-profile job, and spend it with them, living and working on their farms and in their rural and urban communities. And furthermore, not writing or speaking a word about it publicly till after the year is finished, and you've had three additional months, in a retreat setting, to digest what you've learned? And maybe not even then, because Profile can tempt one to self-justify, rather than self-reflect. The idea, Dennis, being to open yourself to the experience and perspectives of people who not only are happy and successful, but don't need you, or your high-profile PR or "policy analysis" edifice, to "save them" from anything--to expose you to people who have the capacity to find and build their own answers, that work and work well. And to open yourself, before you reach your deathbed, to the experience of listening to the still, small inner voice in you, which you seem to be trying to drown out at all costs. Because when we hear you speak, it's hard not to feel that you're projecting your own unhappiness onto farmers, who are carrying enough of a load as it is. And it's hard not to notice that there's some part of you that may actually care about farmers...but you seem to think that the "free" market can minister to people's hearts and spirits and communities. Or your own. Well, I guess that last part zoops over from Journalism to Moral Challenge. Well, heck, Jeff--if Ambrose Bierce and Mark Twain could do it...so can you. :^) I've already got a short list running of places that Dennis the Menace has avoided immersing himself--starting with the Upper Midwest Organic Farming Conference, the Churches Center for Land and People (Sinsinawa, WI), the vast community gardens of Philadelphia, and pretty much anything Fr. Darryl's doing down in Texas. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We must imagine the unimaginable, think the unthinkable, describe the indescribable, and do the impossible. --Philip Berrigan To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 01:47:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA03412 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:47:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA26248 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:07:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com ([209.142.0.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA26140 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from walacres.ptdprolog.net (209-209-19-64.oak.inreach.net [209.209.19.64]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA10311 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001601bed18c$0671cae0$4013d1d1@ptdprolog.net> From: "Diane Joy Goodman" To: References: <199907182210.SAA10887@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Sustainable Ag Photography Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:11:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1706 This was the most exquisite, profoundly touching and universal posting I have seen on SANET. It cuts across all opinion and dialogue and is a visual expression of our common passion for farming, food and community. Of this we all need to be reminded from time to time. Thank you. Diane Joy Goodman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 02:00:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA03500 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 02:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA28816 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:17:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sys32.hou.wt.net (sys32.hou.wt.net [205.230.159.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA28734 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 01:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.211.141.194] (wt-d6-194.wt.net [208.211.141.194]) by sys32.hou.wt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA28725; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:26:09 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: lamu@pop3.wt.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001becc0f$065a27a0$4a810ccf@asus> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:30:36 -0500 To: "Darlene Lang" From: Andy R Subject: RE: EM Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Cari L Spring Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1707 >Please tell me what is >bokashi? > What are (effective microorganisms) "EM's" >Thanks, Darlene Darlene, I thought I had responded to you but I can't seem to find my post in my outbound box. So sorry but here is a response: Bokashi is a Japanese form of compost, kinda but diffent. Here is my limited understanding of it. The bokashi is made from a number of things rice hulls, rice stalks, wheat bran etc into which is inoculated microbrials, in the case of EM a certain strain the Higa ... devised up which are interesting in the sense that they are AC/DC meaning they can turn from aerobic to anaroebic but are beneficial. YOu inoculate this medium and then put in into the soil or dry it and use it to treat compost so that you have fungal compost instead of putrifying compost. It is a very different type of thing. I've used it to make lots of compost and then I bury it in my worm bed or garden. EM are effective microorganisms which Dr. Higa has figured out work together synergestically. They are in a liquid solution which is used in very diluted amounts similar to homeopathic. They are activated by Molasses and it can be used for all types of applications like cleaning your house, in your laundry etc... It is also used extensively with livestock for their digestion and to keep the flies down and do all kinds of other beneficial things. You should read Higa's book are there are workbooks on the last 4 international conferences. There are also workbooks that explain how to use it. I took a class and we have made it in groups in Houston. Imagine being able to grow tomatoes in the same spot year after year without any of the typical fungal and other problems. You will also find a much higher brix level if you were to check the produce. I could go on but check out the data. It is used in many countries from Central America, to Asia to Africa, Europe.... jCheck out the following site: http://emtech.org/ IF you need a source to buy it from I suggest you get it from Stan Frank in Houston Hope this explains a little, but as usual Steve Diver and Attra probably has done an excellant report on it. Cheers, Andy lamu@wt.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 03:09:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA04038 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA01454 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 02:26:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA01430 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 02:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.147] (ppp-206-170-0-147.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.147]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24339; Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:25:44 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Danforth Plant Science Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1708 Howdy, all-- One of our SANETtista kin (who shall remain nameless because of writing to me privately) wrote me with a query whose results I wanted to share with all. Said kindred ran across a reference to a Donald Danforth Plant Science Center in St. Louis. Asked me what I knew. I thought some of you might be interested. If it ever has anything to do with food, ag, or the like, and is HQ'd in St. Louis, my Monsanto flag goes up fast. From the Web site of this organization, here's their mission: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://danforthcenter.org/ The St. Louis-based Danforth Foundation has joined with the State of Missouri and six partners in the midwestern United States to form the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center. The independent, not-for-profit Danforth Center, located in St. Louis, Missouri, is designed to be the centerpiece of an innovative initiative that will apply the most modern scientific and business thinking to the age-old problem of providing food, plant and forestry products to the people of the world --- doing so in ways that can be sustained for generations to come. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Isn't it interesting and telling that feeding and housing and clothing people is presented here as a "problem"--as opposed to, say, an honor, a privilege, a calling, a path...? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Danforth Center's Mission: Increase understanding of basic plant biology Apply new knowledge to help sustain productivity in agriculture, forestry and allied fields Facilitate the rapid development and commercialization of promising technologies and products Contribute to the education and training of graduate and postdoctoral students, scientists and technicians from around the world The Danforth Center's founding partners are all recognized leaders in the plant sciences and include: the Missouri Botanical Garden, Purdue University, the University of Missouri-Columbia, the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Washington University in St. Louis, and the St. Louis-based Monsanto Company. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the link to "Partners" is this description of Monsanto: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Monsanto has transformed itself into a life sciences company that applies biological principles to the sustainable production of nutritional foods, medicines, and other plant-based products important to the future of the world. Furthermore, no corporation in the world has a stronger group of plant scientists than Monsanto. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well. I'll sleep better tonight. Sometimes these "centers" get formed because somebody has money and a research agenda, with a commercial agenda as well, and the "center" is the necessary aggregate of partnerships and PIs to carry that forth. Some would call it a "front." Here's what's intriguing to me: Why would this group of players need a non-profit entity to further their biotechnology research? Particularly since they're going for an admittedly commercial goal. I thought non-profits were for, you know, public interest type stuff. Anyone care to speculate/discuss? The querent also wondered whether I knew anything about Roger Beachy, who is the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center's director. Here's a few items: --At the 1997 "Agricultural Biotechnology for a Better World" conference at Asilomar, Beachy appeared on the program as Dr. Roger Beachy, International Laboratory for Tropical Agricultural Biotechnology, The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, California, USA --He is (or was--the site is undated) the chair of the Scientific Advisory Board of Xyris http://www.xyrisco.com And is blurbed up on their site thus: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. Roger Beachy is the Chair of the Scientific Advisory Board at Xyris. Dr. Beachy is Head of the Division of Plant Biology at The Scripps Research Institute and was recently named Director of the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center. He is a Member of the National Academy of Sciences. He is best known for his pioneering work in plant biology and developing the first genetically engineered food crop that is resistant to disease. Dr. Beachy's most recent research interests involve developing disease resistance strategies in transgenic crops. He holds a Ph.D. in plant pathology from Michigan State University. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Xyris is a San Diego "global agricultural biotechnology company that uses structural and functional genomics, bioinformatics, structural biology, combinatorial chemistry, and robotic high-throughput screening to discover new agricultural products for plants and animals." --For a photo of him, his haircut, and tie, and some...interesting...stuff on how university principal investigators (including him) think, see this 1997 piece, from /The Scientist/, "Top P.I.'s Say That Their Presence In Labs Acts As Safeguard Against Fraud, Sloppiness": http://165.123.33.33/yr1997/may/goodman_p1_970512.html --Here's a minor 1992 interview with him: http://www.accessexcellence.org/AB/CC/CBAB/Plant_Biologist.html I include this mainly for the painfully self-conscious folksiness in it--if there's anything as grotesque as wealthy and influential members of the California UberTechnocracy trying to pass as Just Plain Folks from the Midwest while they're making decisions that run actual JPFs off their land and out of their communities, I don't know what it is. There's more--but this'll getcha started...and let me get to sleep at a reasonable hour. :^D peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer a rude vigor to a polished banality. --Utah Philips To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 09:48:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA08002 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA04469 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:58:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.2.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04424 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.2.16]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29619 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncc.uky.edu.uky.edu ([128.163.196.145]) by pop.uky.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA25204 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990719085913.006a43a8@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: toria@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:59:13 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Victoria Mundy Subject: Sir Albert Howard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1709 Hello Saneters, Does anyone know how I can contact the "Albert Howard Foundation of Organic Husbandry"? Specifically, I am interested in knowing if they still have a research presence in central India. Please reply to me off-list. Thank you! Victoria ************************************* Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy N106R Ag. Sci. North, UK Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 11:35:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11561 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04089 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:57:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from europe.std.com (europe-e.std.com [192.74.137.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04052 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id KAA19395; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:56:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA24767; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:56:48 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:56:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Renewable News Network X-Sender: rnn@world.std.com To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: request for information In-Reply-To: <199903051612.LAA17990@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1710 >From rnn@rnn.com Mon Jul 19 09:30:16 1999 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:28:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Renewable News Network To: san-x@rnn.com Subject: request for information Dear list people. I was wondering if I could get some pointers on how to read consumer product labels, what they mean, and what the alternatives are? Last holiday season I received a can of deodorant. Putting aside any meaning in such a gift - it was a stocking stuffer - another way to buy a piece of the holiday spirit; the ingredients bothered me, starting with SD alcohol 40-B, PROPANE (and) BUTANE (and) ISOBUTANE, WATER, PROPYLENE GLCOL, etc. Here's the article that inspired me to try to get a grip on the possibly dangerous products out there. Yours truly, Ross encl: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- http://www.bobharris.com/ Just how exactly do they make pink lemonade pink? Prompted by you, my demented readers, I did a little poking around, and sure enough, there is an answer. And that answer is Crushed beetle eggs. Bleaugh! That's really the truth. Now, not all pink lemonade uses this particular dye, so check your label, but it turns out that the red coloring often used is something called "cochineal extract," which extracted from the eggs of the cochineal beetle. The cochineal beetle, incidentally, is a little squirmy thing that lives in cactus plants in Peru and the Canary Islands. Which, if you ask me, is precisely where the cochineal beetle belongs, not in a cold summertime drink many of our kids chug by the gallon. The label doesn't always say "cochineal extract." Sometimes, if they purify the extract, they call it "carmine." Swell. It's still crushed insect eggs. A rose (coloring) by any other name And while beetle eggs are supposedly pretty safe, not everything Big Brother packs in your lunchbox is. Check out www.safe-food.org if you're curious about what the hell else is throbbing around in your fridge. Y'know what? For me, here's the distressing part: I'm a vegetarian and it turns out I eat crushed beetle eggs all the time. If you eat ice cream or yogurt or candy that has a red, pink, or purple tinge, guess what? You're gargling beetle juice. Call me crazy, but it seems like that ought to be on a label somewhere. "The lemons in this pink lemonade contain no pork, beef, mollusk, or kangaroo DNA, and the ade part became pink without the use of insects, spiders, or garter snakes." Just like Mom used to make. ___________________________ Bob Harris is a radio commentator, political writer, and stand-up comedian. His new book, Steal This Book And Get Life Without Parole, will be published soon by Common Courage Press. To receive a free email subscription to The Scoop, just send a blank email to BobHarris-subscribe@listbot.com. ...you can find recent columns reprinted in the current print editions of Dollars & Sense, Extra!, and the Funny Times. Meanwhile, Mother Jones online (http://www.motherjones.com) now carries The Scoop every week. I am honored to be associated with these people. They rule. Send announcements, stories, and notices of interest to: Renewable News Network 44 Norfolk Street Needham, MA 02492 USA Contact: Ross M. Donald 781-453-9668 Responding to the heat, and keeping cool with a Solar Electric, Attic Cooling and Whole House Fan. To receive the Environmental Review , send, subscribe er-list, to ; for solar_utilities@rnn.com, send, subscribe solar_utilities To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 12:43:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA16717 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA06765 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:59:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f41.hotmail.com [207.82.250.52]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA06736 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56449 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jul 1999 15:58:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990719155814.56446.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:58:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.50] From: "J. S." To: rnn@rnn.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: request for information Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:58:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1711 Personally I would much rather eat crushed beetle eggs than alot of the other chemical and synthetic dyes that are commonly used, after all, an egg is an egg and a petroleum product is a petroleum product. I think one of the best ways to think about the product you are consuming is to think about what the product does and how that relates to how your body is designed to function both individually and in our ecosystem. For the deodorant/antiperspirant example--Your body has a purpose in sweating, cooling the body temperature and removing toxins to name a few; so a product that is designed to either stop the sweating all together (especially bad) or cloud its odours is not going to come from ingredients that we would consider "nAtural" to consume because this product is not performing a "natural " task >From: Renewable News Network >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: request for information >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:56:48 -0400 (EDT) > > >From rnn@rnn.com Mon Jul 19 09:30:16 1999 >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:28:07 -0400 (EDT) >From: Renewable News Network >To: san-x@rnn.com >Subject: request for information > >Dear list people. > >I was wondering if I could get some pointers on how to read consumer >product labels, what they mean, and what the alternatives are? > >Last holiday season I received a can of deodorant. Putting aside any >meaning in such a gift - it was a stocking stuffer - another way >to buy a piece of the holiday spirit; the ingredients bothered me, >starting with SD alcohol 40-B, PROPANE (and) BUTANE (and) ISOBUTANE, >WATER, PROPYLENE GLCOL, etc. > >Here's the article that inspired me to try to get a grip on the >possibly dangerous products out there. > >Yours truly, >Ross > >encl: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >http://www.bobharris.com/ > >Just how exactly do they make pink lemonade pink? > >Prompted by you, my demented readers, I did a little poking around, and >sure enough, there is an answer. And that answer is > >Crushed beetle eggs. > >Bleaugh! > >That's really the truth. Now, not all pink lemonade uses this particular >dye, so check your label, but it turns out that the red coloring often >used is something called "cochineal extract," which extracted from the >eggs of the cochineal beetle. > >The cochineal beetle, incidentally, is a little squirmy thing that lives >in cactus plants in Peru and the Canary Islands. Which, if you ask me, is >precisely where the cochineal beetle belongs, not in a cold summertime >drink many of our kids chug by the gallon. > >The label doesn't always say "cochineal extract." Sometimes, if they >purify the extract, they call it "carmine." Swell. It's still crushed >insect eggs. A rose (coloring) by any other name > >And while beetle eggs are supposedly pretty safe, not everything Big >Brother packs in your lunchbox is. Check out www.safe-food.org if you're >curious about what the hell else is throbbing around in your fridge. > >Y'know what? For me, here's the distressing part: I'm a vegetarian and it >turns out I eat crushed beetle eggs all the time. If you eat ice cream or >yogurt or candy that has a red, pink, or purple tinge, guess what? You're >gargling beetle juice. Call me crazy, but it seems like that ought to be >on a label somewhere. > >"The lemons in this pink lemonade contain no pork, beef, mollusk, or >kangaroo DNA, and the ade part became pink without the use of insects, >spiders, or garter snakes." > >Just like Mom used to make. > >___________________________ > >Bob Harris is a radio commentator, political writer, and stand-up >comedian. His new book, Steal This Book And Get Life Without Parole, will >be published soon by Common Courage Press. > >To receive a free email subscription to The Scoop, just send a blank email >to BobHarris-subscribe@listbot.com. > >...you can find recent columns reprinted in the current print >editions of Dollars & Sense, Extra!, and the Funny Times. Meanwhile, >Mother Jones online (http://www.motherjones.com) now carries The Scoop >every week. I am honored to be associated with these people. They rule. > > >Send announcements, stories, and notices of interest to: > Renewable News Network > 44 Norfolk Street > Needham, MA 02492 USA >Contact: Ross M. Donald 781-453-9668 > >Responding to the heat, and keeping cool with a >Solar Electric, Attic Cooling and Whole House Fan. > >To receive the Environmental Review , >send, subscribe er-list, to ; >for solar_utilities@rnn.com, send, subscribe solar_utilities > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 14:11:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA21451 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA16202 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:17:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA16142 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.42] (gl-ppp22.hevanet.com [204.119.60.42]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18461; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907191717.KAA18461@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:17:02 -0700 Subject: FW: Attention Wasps: Uncle Sam Wants You From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1712 These articles are simply being passed along for the interest of the recipients. No endorsement, opinion, or anything else should be inferred about the sender's intentions in forwarding these articles. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Attention Wasps: Uncle Sam Wants You Date: Mon, Jul 19, 1999, 9:16 AM STORY LEAD: Attention Wasps: Uncle Sam Wants You ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Jan Suszkiw, (301) 504-1630, jsuszkiw@asrr.arsusda.gov July 19, 1999 ---------- Tiny parasitic wasps that attack crop-hungry caterpillars may be recruited for a new assignment. U.S. Department of Agriculture entomologist Joe Lewis is studying the wasps' potential to sniff out chemical odors from unexploded ordnance such as bombs, mines, or toxins in nerve gases. The four-year project is funded by Controlled Biological Systems (CBS), a program administered by the Department of Defense's Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). Lewis' research group is one of several helping DARPA explore new ways of monitoring the environment around military, civilian, or agricultural areas for chemical or biological threats, particularly from terrorist activity. One CBS interest is developing new detection technologies patterned after the olfactory and neural mechanisms by which insects smell odors with their antennae. CBS coordinator Alan Rudolph first contacted Lewis a year ago, after learning of Lewis' work with Microplitis, Cotesia, and Cardiochiles wasps at the Insect Biology and Population Management Research Lab, operated in Tifton, Georgia, by USDA's Agricultural Research Service. ARS is USDA's chief scientific agency. The work of Lewis, Iowa State University collaborator Tim Baker, and ARS chemist Jim Tumlinson, is three-pronged. One is tuning the wasps' sense of smell to the odor of cyclohexanol, trinitrotuluene (TNT) and other explosives ingredients; the second is tying specific wasp behaviors to a specific odor's presence; and the third is determining how best to employ the wasps. One possibility: placing them in a mobile probe where air samples can be smelled. Another is rigging detached wasp antennae to a remotely-controlled sensor that displays the electrical readings. What makes this possible? Scientists can teach the wasps to find odors otherwise ignored in nature. In flight tunnel experiments, scientists showed that the wasps would fly towards tubes emitting cyclohexanol, TNT, vanilla and methyl jasmonate at rates of 0.05 to 30 nanograms per minute one meter downwind. In nature, this dog-like sense of smell helps wasps find plants where caterpillars can serve as hosts for offspring. ---------- Scientific contact: Joe Lewis, ARS Insect Biology and Population Management Research Lab, Tifton, Ga. phone (912) 387-2369, fax (912) 382-9467, wjl@cpes.peachnet.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 15:54:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25906 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19868 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:12:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from europe.std.com (europe-e.std.com [192.74.137.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA19766 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id PAA07598; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA07499; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:12:17 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:12:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Renewable News Network X-Sender: rnn@world.std.com To: "J. S." Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: request for information In-Reply-To: <19990719155814.56446.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1713 I get it. Eat fewer toxins, smell better. But this is beyond, me and my arm pits. I don't see, by what right, my good neighbor, unwittingly, and The Gillette Company can spray petro-based ingredients into the air. On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, J. S. wrote: > > Personally I would much rather eat crushed beetle eggs than alot of the > other chemical and synthetic dyes that are commonly used, after all, an egg > is an egg and a petroleum product is a petroleum product. I think one of > the best ways to think about the product you are consuming is to think about > what the product does and how that relates to how your body is designed to > function both individually and in our ecosystem. For the > deodorant/antiperspirant example--Your body has a purpose in sweating, > cooling the body temperature and removing toxins to name a few; so a product > that is designed to either stop the sweating all together (especially bad) > or cloud its odours is not going to come from ingredients that we would > consider "nAtural" to consume because this product is not performing a > "natural " task > > >From: Renewable News Network > >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > >Subject: request for information > >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:56:48 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > >From rnn@rnn.com Mon Jul 19 09:30:16 1999 > >Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:28:07 -0400 (EDT) > >From: Renewable News Network > >To: san-x@rnn.com > >Subject: request for information > > > >Dear list people. > > > >I was wondering if I could get some pointers on how to read consumer > >product labels, what they mean, and what the alternatives are? > > > >Last holiday season I received a can of deodorant. Putting aside any > >meaning in such a gift - it was a stocking stuffer - another way > >to buy a piece of the holiday spirit; the ingredients bothered me, > >starting with SD alcohol 40-B, PROPANE (and) BUTANE (and) ISOBUTANE, > >WATER, PROPYLENE GLCOL, etc. > > > >Here's the article that inspired me to try to get a grip on the > >possibly dangerous products out there. > > > >Yours truly, > >Ross > > > >encl: > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >http://www.bobharris.com/ > > > >Just how exactly do they make pink lemonade pink? > > > >Prompted by you, my demented readers, I did a little poking around, and > >sure enough, there is an answer. And that answer is > > > >Crushed beetle eggs. > > > >Bleaugh! > > > >That's really the truth. Now, not all pink lemonade uses this particular > >dye, so check your label, but it turns out that the red coloring often > >used is something called "cochineal extract," which extracted from the > >eggs of the cochineal beetle. > > > >The cochineal beetle, incidentally, is a little squirmy thing that lives > >in cactus plants in Peru and the Canary Islands. Which, if you ask me, is > >precisely where the cochineal beetle belongs, not in a cold summertime > >drink many of our kids chug by the gallon. > > > >The label doesn't always say "cochineal extract." Sometimes, if they > >purify the extract, they call it "carmine." Swell. It's still crushed > >insect eggs. A rose (coloring) by any other name > > > >And while beetle eggs are supposedly pretty safe, not everything Big > >Brother packs in your lunchbox is. Check out www.safe-food.org if you're > >curious about what the hell else is throbbing around in your fridge. > > > >Y'know what? For me, here's the distressing part: I'm a vegetarian and it > >turns out I eat crushed beetle eggs all the time. If you eat ice cream or > >yogurt or candy that has a red, pink, or purple tinge, guess what? You're > >gargling beetle juice. Call me crazy, but it seems like that ought to be > >on a label somewhere. > > > >"The lemons in this pink lemonade contain no pork, beef, mollusk, or > >kangaroo DNA, and the ade part became pink without the use of insects, > >spiders, or garter snakes." > > > >Just like Mom used to make. > > > >___________________________ > > > >Bob Harris is a radio commentator, political writer, and stand-up > >comedian. His new book, Steal This Book And Get Life Without Parole, will > >be published soon by Common Courage Press. > > > >To receive a free email subscription to The Scoop, just send a blank email > >to BobHarris-subscribe@listbot.com. > > > >...you can find recent columns reprinted in the current print > >editions of Dollars & Sense, Extra!, and the Funny Times. Meanwhile, > >Mother Jones online (http://www.motherjones.com) now carries The Scoop > >every week. I am honored to be associated with these people. They rule. > > > > > >Send announcements, stories, and notices of interest to: > > Renewable News Network > > 44 Norfolk Street > > Needham, MA 02492 USA > >Contact: Ross M. Donald 781-453-9668 > > > >Responding to the heat, and keeping cool with a > >Solar Electric, Attic Cooling and Whole House Fan. > > > >To receive the Environmental Review , > >send, subscribe er-list, to ; > >for solar_utilities@rnn.com, send, subscribe solar_utilities > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 17:59:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA28411 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06346 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:18:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA06329 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:18:52 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@PCSIA.COM Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA27060 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:22:12 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:18:42 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.81] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 102a113c ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:18:16 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990719161220.0080a6a0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:12:20 -0500 To: Subject: FW: PBS Documentary on Chickens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1714 To All, I knew PBS was on a downhill run when they started airing commericals; but this is sick! Are we next going to be seeing programs like COPS, Real TV, and Court TV on PBS? We appear to be a lot closer to David Korten's When Corporations Rule the World book than I thought. Let's all welcome Mr Murdock to PBS. Mike Miller >Subject: FW: PBS Documentary on Chickens >> there was a chicken farmer named Olsen in Fruita, CO who choppd off his >> chickens head. He failed to cut off the base of the brain and the left >> ear, >> so the chicekn lived for several weeks. He was put on display in Salt Lake >> City, UT. What I'm hoping you can do is put an e-mail out to the poultry >> community asking if (a) anyone is related to the chicken farmer, Olsen and >> (b) if anyone remembers this chicken whom I can speak with. >> >> Please let me know if this is a possibility or if you have any suggestions >> on locating this family. Thank you again for your help. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 18:00:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28436 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06548 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:20:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dante.agresearch.cri.nz (dante.agresearch.cri.nz [202.20.103.100]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA06493 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dante.agresearch.cri.nz; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA29284; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:19:56 +1200 Received: by rumour.agresearch.cri.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3B2K8S49>; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:15:03 +1200 Message-Id: <49D6FED192E7D0119BC10000F8773E3E4CA677@lint.agresearch.cri.nz> From: "Daly, Mike" To: "'Andy R'" Cc: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: EM Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:15:02 +1200 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1715 Andy, Good explanation about EM and EM Bokashi. I have been involved with testing the effects of EM on field crops on 'Organic' farms in New Zealand over the past 4 years with some very positive results. I have published some of those results and they are due out in the next issue of the, Journal of Sustainable Agriculture (an international journal). If anyone wants any more details you can contact me by at dalym@agresearch.cri.nz. Mike Daly -----Original Message----- From: Andy R [SMTP:lamu@wt.net] Sent: Monday, 19 July 1999 17:31 To: Darlene Lang Cc: ; Cari L Spring Subject: RE: EM >Please tell me what is >bokashi? > What are (effective microorganisms) "EM's" >Thanks, Darlene Darlene, I thought I had responded to you but I can't seem to find my post in my outbound box. So sorry but here is a response: Bokashi is a Japanese form of compost, kinda but diffent. Here is my limited understanding of it. The bokashi is made from a number of things rice hulls, rice stalks, wheat bran etc into which is inoculated microbrials, in the case of EM a certain strain the Higa ... devised up which are interesting in the sense that they are AC/DC meaning they can turn from aerobic to anaroebic but are beneficial. YOu inoculate this medium and then put in into the soil or dry it and use it to treat compost so that you have fungal compost instead of putrifying compost. It is a very different type of thing. I've used it to make lots of compost and then I bury it in my worm bed or garden. EM are effective microorganisms which Dr. Higa has figured out work together synergestically. They are in a liquid solution which is used in very diluted amounts similar to homeopathic. They are activated by Molasses and it can be used for all types of applications like cleaning your house, in your laundry etc... It is also used extensively with livestock for their digestion and to keep the flies down and do all kinds of other beneficial things. You should read Higa's book are there are workbooks on the last 4 international conferences. There are also workbooks that explain how to use it. I took a class and we have made it in groups in Houston. Imagine being able to grow tomatoes in the same spot year after year without any of the typical fungal and other problems. You will also find a much higher brix level if you were to check the produce. I could go on but check out the data. It is used in many countries from Central America, to Asia to Africa, Europe.... jCheck out the following site: http://emtech.org/ IF you need a source to buy it from I suggest you get it from Stan Frank in Houston Hope this explains a little, but as usual Steve Diver and Attra probably has done an excellant report on it. Cheers, Andy lamu@wt.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 19 18:05:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28567 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA00302 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:12:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA00285 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.139] (ppp-206-170-32-139.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.139]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23416; Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:09:54 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Cochineal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1716 Howdy, all-- Ross wrote: >Here's the article that inspired me to try to get a grip on the >possibly dangerous products out there. and cited an article about cochineal used as a reddening agent. Ross, if cochineal is the most dangerous thing you're eating, kiss the next insect you meet and thank it. First of all, I would like someone to inform Bob Harris that cochineal is made from the crushed bodies of the insect itself (/Dactylopus coccus/), not from their eggs. Stick that in your Yickie Mill and grind it. Check out the Web site for Allegro Natural Dyes to learn more. http://www.sni.net/ecolor/ I've appended a piece on cochineal at the bottom of this message. The problem, if any, isn't in the Bug Parts, but in how those natural resins are chemically altered in modern labs. Second of all, I would like someone to inform Bob Harris that a good portion of his own gut is comprised of living, dying, and dead creatures who digest his food for him and whom he, in turn, digests. And so did his Mom. None are as large as a beetle, mind you, but if he's worrying about ingesting "throbbing" things, gut ecology in any species, humans included, is a good place to look. What is the alternative to this naturally occurring and simply extracted ancient resin? Perhaps one might think of "food coloring." You know, those benign little bottles that we associate with Easter egg dying. Some of those are petrochemical dyes, and basically byproducts of the refining process. As any aggie who grew up in a refinery/port town can tell you, there's a lot of Stuff left over from a barrel of crude oil, after you take out the things you want, like gasoline. Chemists working for the petrochemical industry in the early part of this century went hog-wild finding uses for the byproducts of oil cracking and refining. Some of them found their way into our food chain as colorings, flavorings, texture conditioners, etc. And into cosmetics and body care products as well, which often is the same as eating them. None that I know of have been tested for long term, low-dose, immune, endocrine, neurological, developmental, or interactive effects. I find it intriguing that people who'd think nothing of ingesting petrochemicals, pesticides, and polymers will gack vociferously at the thought of having some beetle parts in their food. Humans have been eating insects for a long time, and they, need I remind us all, have been eating us for about that long. Synthetic ingredients date back no longer than 50-100 years. We have chemical, oil company, and other PR departments to thank for the fact that the viscous after-remains of dead plant and animal life from the Carboniferous Era (300 million years ago), devoid of any life whatever, heated and cooled and oxygenated and et ceteraed, are considered "cleaner" and "healthier" than the simple living squiggle and goo to which we owe our vital existence. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.colormaker.com/Carmine.htm In the ancient world of the Aztecs, carmine was the homage of kings. It was considered more valuable than gold. This bright red colorant required the labor of hundreds of subjects combing the desert in search of the cochineal insect. It is believed that around 1518, Cortez discovered the Aztecs using cochineal. To the Spaniards, it was an amazing colorant and considerably stronger than other dyes used in Europe. The Spanish government turned it into a lucrative export but the Europeans were never told of its insect origin. This insect Dactylopus coccus costa attaches itself to specific varieties of cactus (Opuntia or Nopalea) found in the semi-arid areas of Peru, Bolivia, Chile, The Canary Islands, and Mexico. Collection of the insects is a cottage industry, but development of plantations and deliberate seeding of the cacti is on the increase in all the producing areas. The colorant is extracted from the bodies of female insects just prior to egg-laying time and as such, may contain from 10 to 20% of their dry weight of the color principle chemically called carminic acid. The collected insects are dried and extracted with alkalized hot water or alkalized hot water containing low levels of ethanol. It is estimated that about 25 million insects are required to make 32 pounds of water-soluble extract. The extract is meticulously processed to be totally free of any insect parts. The resulting liquid is called cochineal, a term also used to refer to the insect and products prepared from the extract. It is important that buyers understand the context in which the term "cochineal" is being used because language difficulties with primary extractor can cause confusion. Cochineal (the primary extract) is a purplish-red liquid, water soluble and susceptible to microbial degradation if not handled with care. For this reason, it is often subsequently tray dried, or spray-dried. Cochineal is therefore available as a liquid (variable amount of carminic acid below 5%), crystal form (usually 95-99% carminic acid) and powdered form (about 50% carminic acid). Cochineal is pH sensitive, as it is orange-yellow below pH 4, wine red from pH 4 to 6.5, and purple-red above pH 6.5. Cochineal extract has found application primarily in the beverage industry. Its solubility in aqueous acidic systems and absence of aluminum content favor broader application. Carmine is made by precipitating carminic acid onto an alumina hydrate substrate, using aluminum or calcium cations. This precipitate is a "lake" and is traditionally dried to contain about 50 to 53% carminic acid. Carmine is insoluble in water and oil. It is stable if pH is held above 6. It is soluble in alkaline solution, where it is a bright burgundy/violet color. Liquid carmine is usually offered as a 3 to 7.5% carminic acid content in an aqueous solution, alkalized with ammonium or potassium hydroxide. Great care should be take when working with carmine solution prepared with a hydroxide. This is a strong alkali and workers are advised to avoid splashing and to always wear safety glasses. Request a MSDS from the supplier relative to the alkali used in the colorant's preparation. Carmine will precipitate out of solution at low pH. It is stable to light, heat, oxidation, storage time and is the color of choice in harsh processing applications. Carmine's only significant technical limitation is that it will precipitate in low pH solutions. A Peruvian company has obtained a U.S. Patent on an acid-proof carmine product and ColorMaker can source this colorant . In powdered form, Carmine has been used for cosmetics, pharmaceutical coatings, dry mixes, surimi, fillings, cake icings, and hard candy. In the liquid form, it has found application in coloring bakery products, icings, yogurt, candy, ice cream, gelatin desserts, various milk-based and alcoholic beverages, fruit syrups, pet foods, fish cakes, jams/preserves, meat products, marmalades, hair and skin care products, lip sticks, face powders, rouges, and blushes. This colorant cannot be Kosher certified. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 20 16:07:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA24863 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21173 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:58:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21131 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.23] (ppp-206-170-1-23.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.23]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28358; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:55:15 -0700 To: SANET-mg , iffs@nal.usda.gov From: Misha Subject: Fwd: Mastitis treatment to be tested at UW-Madison Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1717 Howdy, all-- As long as we're on the topic of university-industry "partnerships" in response to on-farm problems.... peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 7/19/99 >For More Information: >William Goodger, (608) 263-7896; wgoodger@facstaff.wisc.edu >Alison Taunton-Rigby, (508) 766-2700 > > >Note to editors: Downloadable high-resolution images of Holstein cows are >available at http://www.news.wisc.edu/newsphotos/cows.html > > >PROMISING MASTITIS TREATMENT TO GET WISCONSIN TEST RUN > >MADISON - A new bovine mastitis product that enhances the cow's immune >system and may curb the costliest disease facing dairy farmers will undergo >a key trial this year at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. > >A United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) licensing study will be >conducted at UW-Madison's Charmany Experimental Farm on the mastitis >product Quilvax-M, developed by the Massachusetts firm Aquila >Biopharmaceuticals, Inc. Aquila has been working with scientists from >UW-Madison's School of Veterinary Medicine since 1993 on developing and >testing the product. > >"This is one of three studies that will be run in parallel and is based on >earlier trials where we were able to demonstrate promising safety, >immunogenicity and effectiveness," says Alison Taunton-Rigby, president and >chief executive officer of Aquila, based in Framingham, Mass. > >If the licensing study confirms earlier tests, the drug could significantly >reduce the estimated $2 billion in annual mastitis-related economic losses, >says William Goodger, a UW-Madison professor of veterinary medicine and >principal investigator of the trial. > >Mastitis, an inflammation in the cow's udder, is caused by bacterial >infections, the most common culprits being S. aureus and E. coli. The >disease tends to lower the productivity of the cow and reduce the quality of >the milk. It often strikes the most productive cows in a herd. > >The UW-Madison site will focus on testing the effectiveness of the product >against the S. aureus bacteria. In the past two months, Goodger says the >research team has identified 44 Holstein cows from farmers across Wisconsin >that fit enrollment criteria for the study. They will be treating the cows >with the product and later challenging the animals with the S. aureus >bacteria, commonly referred to as "staph." > >Goodger says the product helps maintain the normal quality of the milk. >Cows with mastitis tend to produce milk with a high somatic cell count, >which are inflammatory white blood cells that greatly devalue the milk. > >"In previous trials, we were able to show that the somatic cell counts of >the animals stayed relatively normal," he says. > >The staph bacteria are extremely common on Wisconsin dairy farms, and are >found to some extent in about 80 percent of the state's herds. "It's a >chronic disease and farmers have a common line, 'once a staph cow, always a >staph cow,' " Goodger says. "We had to sample the bulk milk tanks of 600 >herds in Wisconsin to identify 134 farms that had cows testing negative for >S. aureus. In the past, farmers have gotten frustrated and culled their >cows (with staph)," he adds. "But that's absolutely the most expensive way >to treat the disease." > >Goodger and co-investigators Chet Thomas, a pathobiological sciences >professor; and Chris Eisele, a research associate; have collaborated with >Aquila since 1993. This new study will be a significant milestone in the >project by proving the product's market benefits and satisfying the USDA's >requirements of safety and effectiveness. > >"This has been a wonderful relationship with the farmers, the veterinarians >in the field, the UW experts in dairy science and production medicine, and >the company," Goodger says. "This relationship is what has made this >research program successful." > >Aquila is a life sciences company developing and commercializing a range of >proprietary products which enhance the immune response in animals and >humans. Its products are intended for use in treating, controlling and >preventing infectious diseases, cancers and autoimmune disorders. > >The study will run through spring 2000, and Quilvax-M may become >commercially available later next year. >### >- Brian Mattmiller, (608) 262-9772 > > > >*********************************** >For questions or comments about UW-Madison's email >news release system, please send an email to: >UW-news@facstaff.wisc.edu > >For more UW-Madison news, please visit the >Office of News and Public Affairs Web site: >http://www.news.wisc.edu/ > >Office of News and Public Affairs >University of Wisconsin-Madison >28 Bascom Hall >500 Lincoln Drive >Madison, WI 53706 > >Email: UW-news@facstaff.wisc.edu >Phone: (608) 262-3571 >Fax: (608) 262-2331 > >************************************************************** >* Brian Mattmiller / Office of News and Public Affairs * >* University of Wisconsin-Madison * >* Room 25 Bascom Hall / 500 Lincoln Dr. / Madison, WI 53706 * >* ph: 608/262-9772 / fax: 608/262-2331 * >************************************************************** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 20 16:07:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA24878 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21212 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:58:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21116 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.23] (ppp-206-170-1-23.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.23]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28310; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:40:01 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: BSE/Spain--ProMED Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA21125 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1718 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you prion watchers. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BSE, BEEF IMPORT RESTRICTIONS - SPAIN ************************************* A ProMED-mail post Date: Fri 9 Jul 1999 11:09:24 -0500 From: "Terry S. Singeltary Sr." Source: Lancet, 10 Jul 1999 [edited] Via: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy Spain adopts European BSE recommendations despite cattle farmers anger - ------------------------------------------------------------------- The Spanish Ministry of Health has angered the Spanish cattle industry by banning on 15 May 1999 the sale of veal chops, intestines, and nervous tissue from cattle imported from European Union (EU) countries that have had cases of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). On 28 June 1999, slaughterhouse workers from several Spanish regions went on an indefinite strike in protest at the ban, which will force them to separate and destroy veal-calf spinal columns, making it almost impossible for them to make veal chops. Removal of such tissues may represent an average loss of US$350 per animal -- Spain imports 750 000 calves each year for this food product. Farmers trade-unions have crititicised the ban, saying it was announced without warning. A spokesperson for the National Association of Bovine Meat Producers has said that the measure will probably paralyse a lot of slaughterhouses and quartering facilities because of the time wasted carrying out the spine separation procedure. The director of the Basque government farming department, Asier Albizu, criticised the ban saying that "to take such a measure suddenly and without giving explanation has no sense". Albizu noted that 50km away in Hendaya, France, slaughterhouses will continue the same practices and continue to sell veal chops. - -- Terry S. Singeltary Sr. Bacliff, Texas, USA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer a rude vigor to a polished banality. --Utah Philips To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 20 16:14:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA24985 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21164 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:58:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21115 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.23] (ppp-206-170-1-23.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.23]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28329; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:42:12 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: UK/BSE chronology--ProMED Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1719 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you prion watchers. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who's watching this issue more closely than I am whether this Reuters chronology is accurate. More info is available at http://www.bse.org/uk peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BSE - UK: CHRONOLOGY ******************** A ProMED-mail post [1] Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:18:36 -0400 From: "Marjorie P. Pollack" Source: Reuters 14 Jul 1999 The European Commission's decision on Wednesday to allow exports of British beef to resume from August 1 closes a chapter in the ``mad cow'' disease crisis that began more than 12 years ago. Following is a chronology of related scientific and political events beginning with the discovery in Britain of the new cattle disease in 1986: November, 1986 - "Mad cow" disease or BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy) first identified by the British government's Central Veterinary Laboratory. December, 1987 - Scientific tests reveal practice of feeding meat and bone meal containing animal parts to cattle caused BSE. June, 1988 - Britain stops feeding meat and bone meal to cattle. July, 1989 - EU bans export of British cattle born before July 18, 1988 and the offspring of infected animals. April, 1990 - Edinburgh-based Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee (SEAC) founded to lead research into BSE. March, 1991 - First case of BSE in cattle born after the 1988 meat and bone meal ban registered. July, 1993 - 100,000th confirmed case of BSE in Britain. July, 1994 - European Commission says British exports of beef-on-the-bone can only come from herds which have been BSE-free for at least six years. March, 1996 - SEAC says special unit looking into human Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD) has concluded most likely explanation for CJD is exposure to BSE before 1989 offal ban. March, 1996 - EU imposes worldwide ban on beef exports from Britain, including live bovine animals, semen, embryos and meat of bovine animals slaughtered in Britain, also materials used in manufacture of medical products, cosmetics and pharmaceuticals. April, 1996 - Britain stops selling meat from cattle aged over 30 months. May, 1996 - British government declares "policy of non-cooperation" with EU. June, 1996 - EU heads of state agree framework for lifting export ban at Florence summit. Britain ends non-cooperation policy. EU reauthorises exports of gelatine, tallow and semen. July/August, 1997 - Illegal shipments of British beef are found in various EU countries. Germany leads call for tighter British controls on exports. October, 1997 - Britain formally introduces date-based scheme covering mainland Britain and meat from animals born after August 1, 1996. January, 1998 - Britain bans sale and import of all beef-on-the-bone after SEAC says there is a small chance that BSE could be transmitted in nerve tissue, including the spinal column and bone marrow. March, 1998 - EU farm ministers give go-ahead for Northern Ireland to start sending first British beef shipments to foreign supermarket shelves under special export scheme. November, 1998 - Panel of EU vets votes in favour of lifting remaining ban on exports of mainland British beef. November 23, 1998 - A majority of EU farm ministers vote in favour of lifting the ban on mainland Britain. July 14, 1999 - European Commission lifts worldwide ban on British beef exports, effective August 1. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 20 18:25:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28088 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:25:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA03116 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:51:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA03066 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@PCSIA.COM Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA18564 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:54:57 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:51:26 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.77] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1007053c ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:51:04 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990720164459.00807b90@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:44:59 -0500 To: Subject: Fwd: Mastitis treatment to be tested at UW-Madison Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1720 >Subject: Fwd: Mastitis treatment to be tested at UW-Madison > >>Mastitis, an inflammation in the cow's udder... It often strikes the most productive cows in a herd. Wasn't there an increase in masitis for cows given r-BGH to increase there milk productivity? Apparently dairy cows are reaching a biological limit in the amount of milk they can produce without adverse health effects. However, it does sound like a good deal for the life science companies. Exacerbate a problem with one of your products; sell'em another product to cure the problems from your first product. Sounds like an automotive shop, eh? ;>) Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 20 18:57:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA28762 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA15593 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:15:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA15586 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from organic-harvest@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EFZLTUZT; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 18:14:36 EDT To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:19:45 -0400 Subject: pasture-based milk co-op? Message-ID: <19990720.171947.4302.0.organic-harvest@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,7-13 From: Barbara R Buchmayer Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1721 Dear sanet A fellow pasture based milk producer is looking for info on CLA and how to promote "green" milk to consumers. Does anyone know of a milk co-op that markets its milk as produced from pasture? I seem to remember reading about a co-op that is called "Pastureland" or something similar. It seems like it is located in Minnesota or Wisconsin. Any info about CLA or this co-op would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Barb Buchmayer Green Hills Harvest 660-244-5858 ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 20 21:10:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA01272 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA28939 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:08:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA28899 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0571.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.184.61]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17532; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37938004.991724C4@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:44:04 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Renewable News Network CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: request for information References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1722 I can tell you something about the cochineal insect. In Madagascar, the arid region inland, in the southern part of the island, the land was covered with cactus, and that was what the cattle had to eat. Some brilliant male brain decided that the reason the arid section was arid was that the cactus was using up all the moisture---(it rains once every 10 yrs, maybe)-- so the thing to to was to eradicate the cactus. So the cochineal insect was imported, --I thought I remembered from Australia??-- and sure enough, it did its job and eliminated almost all the cactus. So did that make the region more moist, the soil more water holding, more able to grow other things? Absolutely not. Ever since, cactus is very scarce, the cattle are bony, and they don't have much to eat. It was a terriblea decision and there is no way to combat the problem, since the cactus is only slowly reappearing. Renewable News Network wrote: > >From rnn@rnn.com Mon Jul 19 09:30:16 1999 > Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:28:07 -0400 (EDT) > From: Renewable News Network > To: san-x@rnn.com > Subject: request for information > > Dear list people. > > I was wondering if I could get some pointers on how to read consumer > product labels, what they mean, and what the alternatives are? > > Last holiday season I received a can of deodorant. Putting aside any > meaning in such a gift - it was a stocking stuffer - another way > to buy a piece of the holiday spirit; the ingredients bothered me, > starting with SD alcohol 40-B, PROPANE (and) BUTANE (and) ISOBUTANE, > WATER, PROPYLENE GLCOL, etc. > > Here's the article that inspired me to try to get a grip on the > possibly dangerous products out there. > > Yours truly, > Ross > > encl: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > http://www.bobharris.com/ > > Just how exactly do they make pink lemonade pink? > > Prompted by you, my demented readers, I did a little poking around, and > sure enough, there is an answer. And that answer is > > Crushed beetle eggs. > > Bleaugh! > > That's really the truth. Now, not all pink lemonade uses this particular > dye, so check your label, but it turns out that the red coloring often > used is something called "cochineal extract," which extracted from the > eggs of the cochineal beetle. > > The cochineal beetle, incidentally, is a little squirmy thing that lives > in cactus plants in Peru and the Canary Islands. Which, if you ask me, is > precisely where the cochineal beetle belongs, not in a cold summertime > drink many of our kids chug by the gallon. > > The label doesn't always say "cochineal extract." Sometimes, if they > purify the extract, they call it "carmine." Swell. It's still crushed > insect eggs. A rose (coloring) by any other name > > And while beetle eggs are supposedly pretty safe, not everything Big > Brother packs in your lunchbox is. Check out www.safe-food.org if you're > curious about what the hell else is throbbing around in your fridge. > > Y'know what? For me, here's the distressing part: I'm a vegetarian and it > turns out I eat crushed beetle eggs all the time. If you eat ice cream or > yogurt or candy that has a red, pink, or purple tinge, guess what? You're > gargling beetle juice. Call me crazy, but it seems like that ought to be > on a label somewhere. > > "The lemons in this pink lemonade contain no pork, beef, mollusk, or > kangaroo DNA, and the ade part became pink without the use of insects, > spiders, or garter snakes." > > Just like Mom used to make. > > ___________________________ > > Bob Harris is a radio commentator, political writer, and stand-up > comedian. His new book, Steal This Book And Get Life Without Parole, will > be published soon by Common Courage Press. > > To receive a free email subscription to The Scoop, just send a blank email > to BobHarris-subscribe@listbot.com. > > ...you can find recent columns reprinted in the current print > editions of Dollars & Sense, Extra!, and the Funny Times. Meanwhile, > Mother Jones online (http://www.motherjones.com) now carries The Scoop > every week. I am honored to be associated with these people. They rule. > > Send announcements, stories, and notices of interest to: > Renewable News Network > 44 Norfolk Street > Needham, MA 02492 USA > Contact: Ross M. Donald 781-453-9668 > > Responding to the heat, and keeping cool with a > Solar Electric, Attic Cooling and Whole House Fan. > > To receive the Environmental Review , > send, subscribe er-list, to ; > for solar_utilities@rnn.com, send, subscribe solar_utilities > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 20 22:31:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA03265 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA04502 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:16:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA04398 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d26-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.26]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA17365; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:14:28 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , Subject: RE: PBS Documentary on Chickens Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:18:11 +1000 Message-ID: <000301bed316$e649f3a0$1a3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990719161220.0080a6a0@pcsia.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1723 > who chopped off his > chickens head. He failed to cut off the base of the brain and the left > ear, > so the chicken lived for several weeks. He was put on display in Salt Lake > City, UT. What I'm hoping you can do is put an e-mail out to the poultry > community asking if (a) anyone is related to the chicken farmer, Olsen and > (b) if anyone remembers this chicken whom I can speak with. > > Please let me know if this is a possibility or if you have any suggestions > on locating this family. Thank you again for your help. > I think the best advice to the film producer would be to presume that that particular chicken is now mercifully deceased, and was probably reluctant to give interviews when it was on display anyway. There are only so many things a headless chook can be expected to do. Or maybe the writer of the above was speaking of the farmer being put on display, for despicable behaviour and for hens to throw eggs at. No wonder people watching TV can't separate the chickens from the eggs on the news when the TV folks get their grammar so scrambled. I wondered whether one should go easy-over a question of grammar, but the media should not be coddled. What all this seems to boil down too is mindless voyeurism. I know that if you boil a chicken with the thyroid in the family who get the soup get a nice dose of pick-me-up thyroid hormone; I am in a stew over whether serving the base of the brain with the chicken might solve some media problems. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 20 23:28:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05399 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA20521 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:32:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA20455 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.143] (ppp-206-170-32-143.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.143]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13531 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:25:43 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Happy moonday to all Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1724 Howdy, all-- Just wanted to say it's been great sharing the planet with you all these past X years. I personally am going to walk the beach tonight and gawk at the waxing moon--or may have to ride up to Twin Peaks for a break in the fog--and thank her for being there and for the tides and stuff, and also recapture the excitement, three decades ago tonight, of those grainy black and white TV images from the Sea of Tranquility. Today I can think of better ways to spend the money. But I still get a kick from the Apollo missions. http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/ peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 02:32:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA08906 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 02:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA10987 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:31:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA10804 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:31:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.143] (ppp-206-170-1-83.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.83]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19164; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:31:14 -0700 To: SANET-mg , iffs@nal.usda.gov From: Misha Subject: Extra copies of books Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1725 Yo, all-- In unpacking and reshelving books in my personal library, I've found some duplicate copies. --1992 edition of /Vital Signs: The Trends that Are Shaping Our Future/, WorldWatch Institute --/From the Ground Up: Wisconsin Sustainable Farmers Tell of their Practice and Vision/ (Wis. Dept. of Ag, 1992) --/Ecolinking: Everyone's guide to online environmental information/, Don Rittner, Peachpit Press, 1992 (dated, but I'm surprised at how many of these resources still exist--and sometimes in the old forms) --/The Dairy Debate: Consequences of Bovine Growth Hormone and Rotational Grazing Technologies/, edited by Bill Liebhardt, UC-SAREP, 1993. --/Quasi-Experimentation: Design and Analysis Issues for Field Settings/, Thomas D. Cook and Donald T. Campbell, 1979 (one of the definitive sources on how to design social research...and thus also how to critique it, as well as answer scientists who think that only lab or bench research can be reliable and valid) --World Watch Paper 131: /Shrinking Fields: Cropland Loss in a World of Eight Billion/, by Gary Gardner, July 1996 --World Watch Paper 132: /Dividing the Waters: Food Security, Ecosystem Health, and the New Politics of Scarcity/, by Sandra Postel, Sept. 1996 --/Managing Cover Crops Profitably/, second edition, Sustainable Agriculture Network, 1998. My first preference is to send these to a farmer-to-farmer network, research group, or organization. Or a rural community or school library. That is--somewhere that multiple people can access them. But if no such org. is interested, I'm willing to send them to anyone who can use them. Because of the cost of mailing, I wish to send all of them to one address--so if you want any, you get all. It's the first X pounds that costs the most to ship, as you know. If you're interested, please e-mail me; I'll give it 48 hours (since many farmers or smaller organizations don't check e-mail every day) from now, then evaluate responses, if any. peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 10:51:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15538 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:51:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA18371 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:09:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18351 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.122]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990721140845.RGXK25099@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:08:45 +0000 Message-ID: <3795D441.A01C4C7B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:08:01 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: People living on the west coast: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1726 Can you tell me the cleanliness, maintenance, and trustworthiness of the Vagabond Motel chain? My daughter is flying in to San Francisco from New Zealand and needs to get a good night's sleep and overcome jet lag before proceeding with the rest of her trip in the States. The hotels in San Francisco are extremely expensive and this is one of the few in her price range. However, we don't want her to stay at a dive! I know this is not what this list is for, but we need unbiased information. Thanks and pardon the trespass. Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 19:50:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA25920 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA21643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:10:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gold.wvnet.edu (gold.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA21603 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu (157.182.7.97:1105) by gold.wvnet.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.41C95798@gold.wvnet.edu>; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:18:14 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990721190930.006c453c@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:09:30 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Lozier Subject: Position Available: Organic Research Farm Cc: wbryan@wvu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1727 (Here's the job announcement I mentioned in an earlier long message. The project is a recently funded SARE project entitled SYSTEMS OF TRANSITION FROM CONVENTIONAL TO ORGANIC AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION. I'm really looking forward to the arrival of a good collaborator in this position. I have nothing whatsoever to do with the hiring or the project, by the way. Just a harper. JL.) Research Assistant The Division of Plant and Soil Sciences at West Virginia University seeks a research assistant to work on organic farming. A B.S. in Agronomy, Horticulture, Animal Science or related fields is required. Experience in organic farm or garden production is required. The successful candidate will work with faculty in various disciplines and coordinate field research activities. The person will be responsible to the Division Director or Designee. The Division is converting one of its farms to an organic farming research facility. Initial research will be on the transition followed by research in systems of organic crop/livestock production. The individual in the research assistant position will be responsible for the daily management of the organic farm. Applicant should send a letter of application, resume, and names, address and phone numbers of three persons who will serve as references, to Dr. Barton S. Baker, West Virginia University, 1090 Agricultural Sciences Building, P.O. Box 6108, Morgantown, WV 26506-6108, (304) 293-4817, bbaker2@wvu.edu. Applications and nominations will be considered until the position is filled. Position available September 1, 1999 and starting salary $21,000 per year. West Virginia University is an AA/EEO employer. Women and minority groups are encouraged to apply. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 19:58:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27093 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA17662 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:00:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gold.wvnet.edu (gold.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17650 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu (157.182.7.97:1101) by gold.wvnet.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.41C9575C@gold.wvnet.edu>; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:08:30 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990721185957.006ccb30@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:59:57 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, harplist@onelist.com From: John Lozier Subject: celebration, sustainable agriculture, SEEKING GIGS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1728 Dear SANET-MG and HARPLIST friends, Celebration is worth the effort, but it does take effort. I've just returned, rather exhausted, from two weeks of family celebrations. First week: son's wedding at Mather Redwood Grove in Berkeley, CA. Second week: nephew's wedding in Friday Harbor, San Juan Islands, Washington. Family members visiting from as far away as Moscow, Russia. Other family members recently back from Albania. Nostalgia. Overindulgence. Colliding egos. Sticky considerations of protocol and succession. Priceless moments: the little flower girl, my grand-daughter, conducting her own impromptu blessing of the newlyweds. Important, essential social work. I had the privilege of harping for both weddings; and both receptions had local celtic combos! Fabulous. Personal growth, too. I had the excellent fortune to meet, face-to-face, with some fine folks whose first acquaintance was made on these listservs. Time and circumstance prevented many other contacts, but we are not dismayed; the time will yet come, and soon. I know, because everywhere I go, I find the vision and spirit of harping for harmony is already there and welcoming. So now I'm fishing for opportunities to travel and perform more widely about my region (West Virginia) and across the country. For several years now, I've been following the ebb and flow of discussions on these two listservs. The topics may not seem to overlap, but they do, in me and at least a few others I know. An occasion to write the same message to both is rare; it occurred to me just once before. I write now to celebrate celebration: the occasion when people with very real differences come together to affirm their common ground. And celebration calls for music: for laughter, for tears, for restful renewal, depending on the circumstances. We have cause for celebration here at West Virginia University College of Agriculture: the awarding of a big SARE grant called SYSTEMS OF TRANSITION FROM CONVENTIONAL TO ORGANIC AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION, to the tune of $217,247 for three years. The whole story involves a really fine collaboration between a couple of very dedicated faculty people and the Mountain State Organic Growers and Buyers Association. (I'm not involved except as cheerleader; I'm fully involved dividing my efforts between part-time forage extension research and part-time harping for harmony.) I want to tell this much to my SANET-MG friends to provide some background for a POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT which I am posting separately to SANET-MG. I'm looking forward to celebration of this organic research farm project as it gets underway in the spring. How do I make this message relevant to both harp and sustag lists? My vision is expressed in the idea of harping for harmony. Music in the service of peace and sustainable development. How, you ask. Well, I believe that paradoxically, folks often avoid thinking about peace and sustainable development because we face so much discouragement. Music, especially harp music, has the power to encourage and lift up our spirits, to stay positive in the face of dire circumstances. And thereby to strengthen us to learn, and know, and communicate hopefully. Because there ARE many hopeful signs, not the least of them being the fantastic capability I have to communicate folks like you around the world. Okay, so down to the point so I can go home for dinner. I'm looking for gigs. I'm hoping to travel from West Virginia to San Francisco in October, for a class reunion, but I need gigs to defray the cost. Can you help? Assuming that I am able to make the trip, the kinds of gigs I want are three kinds: 1) good LUCRATIVE gigs of any kind, like weddings, receptions, parties, teaching workshops; 2) social mission gigs: collaborations with local harpists to benefit a charity, whether local (domestic abuse shelter, harps in the schools, jail ministry, etc.) or international (Belfast Harp Orchestra, land mine removal, etc.); or 3) sustag related (farmers associations, ag schools, consumer-supported ag projects). Once I get the funding together, I can do mission-related freebie gigs anywhere that circumstances permit. Check the Harping for Harmony Foundation web site for more info: www.harpingforharmony.org. Priorities: 1) Month of October, anywhere between West Virginia and San Francisco, your good-paying gig will help make this trip possible. 2) Any other time soon: anywhere near West Virginia. 3) Any time: anywhere. Okay, thanks for being there. Harp on. Verbally and/or musically, according to your calling. Peace, John Lozier harper for harmony jlozier@wvu.edu jlists@wvu.edu harmony@cyberplanet.net www.harpingforharmony.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 19:59:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19660 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA05162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:48:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA05136 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp41.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.141]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA29734 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:44:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <007801bed3a9$379b2200$a94b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "SANET-mg" References: <3795D441.A01C4C7B@worldnet.att.net> Subject: CBS New tonite (7/21) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:45:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1729 FYI: CBS-TV has just informed us that Dan Rather of CBS Evening News will >interview John Fagan, Ph.D., a molecular biologist who is an eloquent >international spokesperson concerning the hazards of genetically engineered >foods, on Wednesday, July 21, and Thursday, July 22, during the 5:30 p.m. >(Central time) national broadcast of CBS Evening News. Please tune in >according to your time zone. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 20:04:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA16451 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:41:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20762 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:01:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gold.wvnet.edu (gold.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20742 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:01:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu (157.182.7.97:1028) by gold.wvnet.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.41C945A7@gold.wvnet.edu>; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:09:39 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990721110052.006cab8c@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:00:52 -0400 To: Misha , SANET-mg From: John Lozier Subject: Re: Happy moonday to all In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1730 Cosmic. I hope Misha will resist the blandishments of extraterrestrial recruiters. Her local knowledge is needed here. At 07:25 PM 7/20/99 -0700, Misha wrote: >Howdy, all-- > >Just wanted to say it's been great sharing the planet with you all >these past X years. I personally am going to walk the beach tonight >and gawk at the waxing moon--or may have to ride up to Twin Peaks for >a break in the fog--and thank her for being there and for the tides >and stuff, and also recapture the excitement, three decades ago >tonight, of those grainy black and white TV images from the Sea of >Tranquility. > >Today I can think of better ways to spend the money. But I still get >a kick from the Apollo missions. > >http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/ > > > >peace >misha > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 20:07:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA16232 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:22:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08661 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:39:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08604 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.18] (st-ppp26.hevanet.com [198.5.254.18]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA25845; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:39:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907211439.HAA25845@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:28:44 -0700 Subject: FW: Project Underway to Battle Cotton Pest in Delta From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1731 These items are passed along strictly for the interest of the readers. No endorsement, statement, or opinion on the part of the person forwarding them is implied or intended. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Project Underway to Battle Cotton Pest in Delta Date: Wed, Jul 21, 1999, 6:39 AM STORY LEAD: Project Underway to Battle Cotton Pest in Delta ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov July 21, 1999 ---------- Concern about another major cotton pest that cost growers $75 million last year has led to an intensive Agricultural Research Service study over a 36- square-mile area in the Mississippi Delta region. Scientists have begun a three- to four-year project to find ways to combat the tarnished plant bug. The study consists of four 9-square-mile areas in the Delta region, with a possibility of future expansion. ARS research entomologist Gordon L. Snodgrass, with ARS' Southern Insect Management Research Unit (SIMRU) in Stoneville, Miss., discovered in 1993 that tarnished plant bugs (Lygus lineolaris)had become resistant to pyrethroids, a class of insecticides commonly used to control them. Tarnished plant bugs are a particular problem, because there are more than 100 different weed species on which they can feed and reproduce. In the winter, they lay dormant in weeds surrounding cotton fields. Then, from February or mid-to-late March, they emerge and begin laying eggs in the weeds. In late spring, they move into cotton crops when the weeds mature. ARS scientist are investigating several different approaches to controlling plant bug populations, including controlling weeds and using biological controls and developing a chemical lure called a pheromone. In field tests last summer, ARS scientists discovered that the males may produce a perfume-like pheromone that attracts both sexes--probably to signal food sources--but they are repeating the test this summer to make sure. It's the only major pest in cotton for which scientists don't have a sex pheromone, according to Snodgrass. Once they develop a pheromone, they'll be much closer to banishing the pest from cotton fields. A longer article on this research appears in the July issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/july99/bugs0799.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Gordon L. Snodgrass, ARS Southern Insect Management Research Unit, Stoneville, Miss. phone (601) 686-5231, fax (601) 686-5421, gsnodgra@ag.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * For photos, media sources should contact ARS Photo Unit at (301) 504-1606 or arsphoto@asrr.arsusda.gov. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 20:09:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA17810 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27428 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:53:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27420 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0193.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.193]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21650; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37952EE5.35740EEC@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:22:29 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha CC: SANET-mg , iffs@nal.usda.gov Subject: Re: Fwd: Mastitis treatment to be tested at UW-Madison References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1732 Why not just find out how Newman Turner eliminated this problem? Misha wrote: > Howdy, all-- > > As long as we're on the topic of university-industry "partnerships" > in response to on-farm problems.... > > peace > misha > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 7/19/99 > >For More Information: > >William Goodger, (608) 263-7896; wgoodger@facstaff.wisc.edu > >Alison Taunton-Rigby, (508) 766-2700 > > > > > >Note to editors: Downloadable high-resolution images of Holstein cows are > >available at http://www.news.wisc.edu/newsphotos/cows.html > > > > > >PROMISING MASTITIS TREATMENT TO GET WISCONSIN TEST RUN > > > >MADISON - A new bovine mastitis product that enhances the cow's immune > >system and may curb the costliest disease facing dairy farmers will undergo > >a key trial this year at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. > > > >A United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) licensing study will be > >conducted at UW-Madison's Charmany Experimental Farm on the mastitis > >product Quilvax-M, developed by the Massachusetts firm Aquila > >Biopharmaceuticals, Inc. Aquila has been working with scientists from > >UW-Madison's School of Veterinary Medicine since 1993 on developing and > >testing the product. > > > >"This is one of three studies that will be run in parallel and is based on > >earlier trials where we were able to demonstrate promising safety, > >immunogenicity and effectiveness," says Alison Taunton-Rigby, president and > >chief executive officer of Aquila, based in Framingham, Mass. > > > >If the licensing study confirms earlier tests, the drug could significantly > >reduce the estimated $2 billion in annual mastitis-related economic losses, > >says William Goodger, a UW-Madison professor of veterinary medicine and > >principal investigator of the trial. > > > >Mastitis, an inflammation in the cow's udder, is caused by bacterial > >infections, the most common culprits being S. aureus and E. coli. The > >disease tends to lower the productivity of the cow and reduce the quality of > >the milk. It often strikes the most productive cows in a herd. > > > >The UW-Madison site will focus on testing the effectiveness of the product > >against the S. aureus bacteria. In the past two months, Goodger says the > >research team has identified 44 Holstein cows from farmers across Wisconsin > >that fit enrollment criteria for the study. They will be treating the cows > >with the product and later challenging the animals with the S. aureus > >bacteria, commonly referred to as "staph." > > > >Goodger says the product helps maintain the normal quality of the milk. > >Cows with mastitis tend to produce milk with a high somatic cell count, > >which are inflammatory white blood cells that greatly devalue the milk. > > > >"In previous trials, we were able to show that the somatic cell counts of > >the animals stayed relatively normal," he says. > > > >The staph bacteria are extremely common on Wisconsin dairy farms, and are > >found to some extent in about 80 percent of the state's herds. "It's a > >chronic disease and farmers have a common line, 'once a staph cow, always a > >staph cow,' " Goodger says. "We had to sample the bulk milk tanks of 600 > >herds in Wisconsin to identify 134 farms that had cows testing negative for > >S. aureus. In the past, farmers have gotten frustrated and culled their > >cows (with staph)," he adds. "But that's absolutely the most expensive way > >to treat the disease." > > > >Goodger and co-investigators Chet Thomas, a pathobiological sciences > >professor; and Chris Eisele, a research associate; have collaborated with > >Aquila since 1993. This new study will be a significant milestone in the > >project by proving the product's market benefits and satisfying the USDA's > >requirements of safety and effectiveness. > > > >"This has been a wonderful relationship with the farmers, the veterinarians > >in the field, the UW experts in dairy science and production medicine, and > >the company," Goodger says. "This relationship is what has made this > >research program successful." > > > >Aquila is a life sciences company developing and commercializing a range of > >proprietary products which enhance the immune response in animals and > >humans. Its products are intended for use in treating, controlling and > >preventing infectious diseases, cancers and autoimmune disorders. > > > >The study will run through spring 2000, and Quilvax-M may become > >commercially available later next year. > >### > >- Brian Mattmiller, (608) 262-9772 > > > > > > > >*********************************** > >For questions or comments about UW-Madison's email > >news release system, please send an email to: > >UW-news@facstaff.wisc.edu > > > >For more UW-Madison news, please visit the > >Office of News and Public Affairs Web site: > >http://www.news.wisc.edu/ > > > >Office of News and Public Affairs > >University of Wisconsin-Madison > >28 Bascom Hall > >500 Lincoln Drive > >Madison, WI 53706 > > > >Email: UW-news@facstaff.wisc.edu > >Phone: (608) 262-3571 > >Fax: (608) 262-2331 > > > >************************************************************** > >* Brian Mattmiller / Office of News and Public Affairs * > >* University of Wisconsin-Madison * > >* Room 25 Bascom Hall / 500 Lincoln Dr. / Madison, WI 53706 * > >* ph: 608/262-9772 / fax: 608/262-2331 * > >************************************************************** > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michele Gale-Sinex > Communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > http://www.wisc.edu > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is > safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 20:28:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA28623 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA06619 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:33:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA06539 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu by chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0:JLF-19970113) id TAA25807; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:30:08 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990721193240.006b7f5c@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:32:40 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Lozier Subject: test Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1733 test, please ignore To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 21:38:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29679 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA03416 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:58:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA03411 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA25045; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 19:56:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-209.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.209) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025013; Wed Jul 21 19:56:13 1999 Message-ID: <000601bed3dc$753620a0$d1f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Julie" , "SANET-mg" Subject: Re: CBS New tonite (7/21) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:52:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1734 I was out tendin' my non-GM crops and missed it. Please post if there is a write up on a web page. Thank-you, Beth -----Original Message----- From: Julie To: SANET-mg Date: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 2:55 PM Subject: CBS New tonite (7/21) >FYI: > >CBS-TV has just informed us that Dan Rather of CBS Evening News will >>interview John Fagan, Ph.D., a molecular biologist who is an eloquent >>international spokesperson concerning the hazards of genetically engineered >>foods, on Wednesday, July 21, and Thursday, July 22, during the 5:30 p.m. >>(Central time) national broadcast of CBS Evening News. Please tune in >>according to your time zone. >> > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 21 21:57:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29862 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA13808 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:12:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA13796 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wclynx.com ([209.249.70.142]) by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with ESMTP id AAA208 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:12:28 -0700 Message-ID: <37966F30.64260FC6@wclynx.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 18:09:04 -0700 From: Diane Cooner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: GMO News on CBS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1735 This 5 minute bit could have been much worse. I thought that they gave all the air time to Monsanto and the farmer that thought GMO food was 100% okay. That was not great. However, they DID give John Fagan about 22 seconds which he used to make a powerful statement about the largely unknown longterm results on humans. They also noted that Britain is totally anti-GMO, including the Bonny Prince, and asked questions without giving answers. Good for persons capable of critical thought, but unfortunately that seems to leave out quite a bit of the American population. Tomorrow night is supposed to be addressing how this "food" is already integrated into our food supply and we don't know it, and asks why the government doesn't want GMO's labeled. We'll see! Diane Cooner in Northern California ---SAVE KPFA! check out and step up and do your part to save this vital community resource. :^] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 00:04:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02125 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA10396 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:27:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA10377 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp51.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.151]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA20728 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:23:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00a601bed3f1$a1ae8220$974b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "sanet-mg" References: <000601bed3dc$753620a0$d1f86ed1@dan> Subject: Re: CBS New tonite (7/21) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:23:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1736 Hi Beth & Diane, I forwarded the earlier notice to my local (mostly conventional) farm list & was forwarded this link by one very smug bio-tech farmer... http://www.cbs.com/flat/story_170547.html . He discredits John Fagan because he gains financially from GM testing...I could argue Monsanto gains far more than John Fagan, but why bother...the stage is set & actually, I'm smiling too... I figure I'm infiltrating their conventional ranks a bit...at least they're going to have to acknowledge that it IS an issue - after all, CBS is mainstream. Really, I wouldn't expect the farmers to change the current U.S. situation...it will have to come from the public, as it is happening abroad...the consumers will have the final say. Probably would be better to forward such things to email lists that cater to mothers raising babies and such. (I did do this once when a GE baby formula post came across Sanet by the way!) I'm grateful for the CBS piece...not ideal, but a toehold in the public is much better than a foothold amoungst farmers & agriculturists! Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 00:27:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02429 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA13666 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:36:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lserve.eharvest.com ([216.38.10.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA13588 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by LSERVE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:35:57 -0400 Message-ID: <21EE44311E24D31193F7009027731A80823C@LSERVE> From: Chris Lanteigne To: "'John Lozier '" , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu '" Cc: "'wbryan@wvu.edu '" Subject: RE: Position Available: Organic Research Farm Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 23:35:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1737 Hi John: You should consider advertising your job here: http://careers.eharvest.com/ Check it out and let me know what you think. We have thousands of visitors each week and will get you the exposure you need to find a qualified applicant! Come visit and send me an email or give me a call to find out more. Take care, Chris Lanteigne http://www.eHARVEST.com/ chrisL@eharvest.com -----Original Message----- From: John Lozier To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: wbryan@wvu.edu Sent: 7/21/99 7:09 PM Subject: Position Available: Organic Research Farm (Here's the job announcement I mentioned in an earlier long message. The project is a recently funded SARE project entitled SYSTEMS OF TRANSITION FROM CONVENTIONAL TO ORGANIC AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION. I'm really looking forward to the arrival of a good collaborator in this position. I have nothing whatsoever to do with the hiring or the project, by the way. Just a harper. JL.) Research Assistant The Division of Plant and Soil Sciences at West Virginia University seeks a research assistant to work on organic farming. A B.S. in Agronomy, Horticulture, Animal Science or related fields is required. Experience in organic farm or garden production is required. The successful candidate will work with faculty in various disciplines and coordinate field research activities. The person will be responsible to the Division Director or Designee. The Division is converting one of its farms to an organic farming research facility. Initial research will be on the transition followed by research in systems of organic crop/livestock production. The individual in the research assistant position will be responsible for the daily management of the organic farm. Applicant should send a letter of application, resume, and names, address and phone numbers of three persons who will serve as references, to Dr. Barton S. Baker, West Virginia University, 1090 Agricultural Sciences Building, P.O. Box 6108, Morgantown, WV 26506-6108, (304) 293-4817, bbaker2@wvu.edu. Applications and nominations will be considered until the position is filled. Position available September 1, 1999 and starting salary $21,000 per year. West Virginia University is an AA/EEO employer. Women and minority groups are encouraged to apply. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 08:47:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA06835 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:47:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA21947 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:50:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA21893 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA02513 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.146]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA37801 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005f01bed43a$39eede20$927a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: Fwd: Mastitis treatment to be tested at UW-Madison Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:03:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1738 Sorry for not knowing but who is Newman Turner and what did he do? -----Original Message----- From: Bargyla Rateaver To: Misha Cc: SANET-mg ; iffs@nal.usda.gov Date: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 1:27 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Mastitis treatment to be tested at UW-Madison >Why not just find out how Newman Turner eliminated this problem? > >Misha wrote: > >> Howdy, all-- >> >> As long as we're on the topic of university-industry "partnerships" >> in response to on-farm problems.... >> >> peace >> misha >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 7/19/99 >> >For More Information: >> >William Goodger, (608) 263-7896; wgoodger@facstaff.wisc.edu >> >Alison Taunton-Rigby, (508) 766-2700 >> > >> > >> >Note to editors: Downloadable high-resolution images of Holstein cows are >> >available at http://www.news.wisc.edu/newsphotos/cows.html >> > >> > >> >PROMISING MASTITIS TREATMENT TO GET WISCONSIN TEST RUN >> > >> >MADISON - A new bovine mastitis product that enhances the cow's immune >> >system and may curb the costliest disease facing dairy farmers will undergo >> >a key trial this year at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. >> > >> >A United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) licensing study will be >> >conducted at UW-Madison's Charmany Experimental Farm on the mastitis >> >product Quilvax-M, developed by the Massachusetts firm Aquila >> >Biopharmaceuticals, Inc. Aquila has been working with scientists from >> >UW-Madison's School of Veterinary Medicine since 1993 on developing and >> >testing the product. >> > >> >"This is one of three studies that will be run in parallel and is based on >> >earlier trials where we were able to demonstrate promising safety, >> >immunogenicity and effectiveness," says Alison Taunton-Rigby, president and >> >chief executive officer of Aquila, based in Framingham, Mass. >> > >> >If the licensing study confirms earlier tests, the drug could significantly >> >reduce the estimated $2 billion in annual mastitis-related economic losses, >> >says William Goodger, a UW-Madison professor of veterinary medicine and >> >principal investigator of the trial. >> > >> >Mastitis, an inflammation in the cow's udder, is caused by bacterial >> >infections, the most common culprits being S. aureus and E. coli. The >> >disease tends to lower the productivity of the cow and reduce the quality of >> >the milk. It often strikes the most productive cows in a herd. >> > >> >The UW-Madison site will focus on testing the effectiveness of the product >> >against the S. aureus bacteria. In the past two months, Goodger says the >> >research team has identified 44 Holstein cows from farmers across Wisconsin >> >that fit enrollment criteria for the study. They will be treating the cows >> >with the product and later challenging the animals with the S. aureus >> >bacteria, commonly referred to as "staph." >> > >> >Goodger says the product helps maintain the normal quality of the milk. >> >Cows with mastitis tend to produce milk with a high somatic cell count, >> >which are inflammatory white blood cells that greatly devalue the milk. >> > >> >"In previous trials, we were able to show that the somatic cell counts of >> >the animals stayed relatively normal," he says. >> > >> >The staph bacteria are extremely common on Wisconsin dairy farms, and are >> >found to some extent in about 80 percent of the state's herds. "It's a >> >chronic disease and farmers have a common line, 'once a staph cow, always a >> >staph cow,' " Goodger says. "We had to sample the bulk milk tanks of 600 >> >herds in Wisconsin to identify 134 farms that had cows testing negative for >> >S. aureus. In the past, farmers have gotten frustrated and culled their >> >cows (with staph)," he adds. "But that's absolutely the most expensive way >> >to treat the disease." >> > >> >Goodger and co-investigators Chet Thomas, a pathobiological sciences >> >professor; and Chris Eisele, a research associate; have collaborated with >> >Aquila since 1993. This new study will be a significant milestone in the >> >project by proving the product's market benefits and satisfying the USDA's >> >requirements of safety and effectiveness. >> > >> >"This has been a wonderful relationship with the farmers, the veterinarians >> >in the field, the UW experts in dairy science and production medicine, and >> >the company," Goodger says. "This relationship is what has made this >> >research program successful." >> > >> >Aquila is a life sciences company developing and commercializing a range of >> >proprietary products which enhance the immune response in animals and >> >humans. Its products are intended for use in treating, controlling and >> >preventing infectious diseases, cancers and autoimmune disorders. >> > >> >The study will run through spring 2000, and Quilvax-M may become >> >commercially available later next year. >> >### >> >- Brian Mattmiller, (608) 262-9772 >> > >> > >> > >> >*********************************** >> >For questions or comments about UW-Madison's email >> >news release system, please send an email to: >> >UW-news@facstaff.wisc.edu >> > >> >For more UW-Madison news, please visit the >> >Office of News and Public Affairs Web site: >> >http://www.news.wisc.edu/ >> > >> >Office of News and Public Affairs >> >University of Wisconsin-Madison >> >28 Bascom Hall >> >500 Lincoln Drive >> >Madison, WI 53706 >> > >> >Email: UW-news@facstaff.wisc.edu >> >Phone: (608) 262-3571 >> >Fax: (608) 262-2331 >> > >> >************************************************************** >> >* Brian Mattmiller / Office of News and Public Affairs * >> >* University of Wisconsin-Madison * >> >* Room 25 Bascom Hall / 500 Lincoln Dr. / Madison, WI 53706 * >> >* ph: 608/262-9772 / fax: 608/262-2331 * >> >************************************************************** >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Michele Gale-Sinex >> Communications manager >> Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison >> http://www.wisc.edu >> UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 >> Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) >> Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is >> safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 09:31:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07633 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA24282 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:40:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA24234 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA17776; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 07:39:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-204.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.204) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017750; Thu Jul 22 07:38:46 1999 Message-ID: <002a01bed43e$9d9b15c0$d1f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Julie" , "sanet-mg" Subject: Re: CBS New tonite (7/21) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 08:34:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1739 Dear Julie, Thanks I read it your right its ok. A very similar article was in the Boston Globe about a week ago. Front page of the Sunday food section. I know it dismayed one of my CSA members. This week I gave them freezing instructions, I'd like them to preserve their harvest for the winter so they won't have to worry about such things. Thanks and if there is a web page for tonight's please post. It's unlikely I'll be done with the chores in time to watch it. Thanks Beth -----Original Message----- From: Julie To: sanet-mg Date: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 11:31 PM Subject: Re: CBS New tonite (7/21) >Hi Beth & Diane, > >I forwarded the earlier notice to my local (mostly conventional) farm list & >was forwarded this link by one very smug bio-tech farmer... >http://www.cbs.com/flat/story_170547.html . He discredits John Fagan because >he gains financially from GM testing...I could argue Monsanto gains far more >than John Fagan, but why bother...the stage is set & actually, I'm smiling >too... To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 13:00:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04568 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25186 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:57:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.info.com.ph (mail.info.com.ph [203.172.11.150]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25178 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mr (info2-166.info.com.ph [202.163.232.166]) by mail1.info.com.ph (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA41262 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:01:20 +0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990723002810.0079c100@pop.info.com.ph> X-Sender: ccd23@pop.info.com.ph X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:28:13 +0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Chris Dizon Subject: Inquiry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1740 Dear Sir/Madam: I am a college student of Don Bosco Technical College taking up Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering. I am currently a 5th year student. My group and I are currently or is starting to make a thesis. The reason I wrote this letter is to ask for some further information, data, or facts and the processes involved including the materials used regarding plastic mulch which is under plasticulture. Providing such data would be very much appreciated because we would like to study this processes or this innovations that we might also apply in our country. I hope you could reply as soon as possible. Thank you. P.S. If we could also ask if you could refer us to some people or references that might help us developing this thesis that we are going to make regarding plastic mulch/plasticulture. We really need your help because it is difficult to find reference materials about plastic mulch. Sincerely Christopher Dizon Student (Don Bosco Technical College) PHILIPPINES To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 14:28:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA07102 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA21663 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:33:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.mntm.org (ns.mntm.org [209.18.254.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA21656 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rrc2.rrcnet.org (rrc2.rrcnet.org [209.18.245.2]) by ns.mntm.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17742 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:32:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from anp40.rrcnet.org by rrc2.rrcnet.org; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/11Jul96-0511PM) id AA12491; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:30:46 -0500 Message-Id: <9907221730.AA12491@rrc2.rrcnet.org> From: "Phil Batalden" To: "sanet" Subject: wheat straw Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:47:13 -0500 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1741 I would like to know if anyone out there knows the dollar value of wheat straw. How much should I charge per ton for the straw, instead of putting it back on the land? I am guessing 2500 pounds per acre of straw will be taken off? Should I take it off, this is my second year of transition? Phil To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 14:54:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA07642 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA13937 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:09:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13915 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3) id OAA06774 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;37975D38.7F18.04E8.000] Content-Identifier: GMO/non-GMO Comp UA-Content-Id: GMO/non-GMO Comp Autoforwarded: FALSE X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:04:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:04:00 -0400 From: Marc Safley Subject: GMO/non-GMO Comparison To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <37975D38.7F18.04E8.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-p5)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1742 The Economic Research Service posted a new release on its web site Monday that may be of interest. The release reports results of research that tested yield and pesticide use differences between GMO and non-GMO systems for cotton, soybeans, and corn. The information adds to data previously release on the web site. The 4-page "Impacts of Adopting Genetically Engineered Crops in the U.S." is available at: www.econ.ag.gov/whatsnew/issues/gmo/index.htm Marc Safley NRCS/USDA marc.safley@usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 15:34:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA09193 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:34:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07768 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:51:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07686 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13218 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.154]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA52684 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005b01bed475$04275020$9a7a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: wheat straw Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:04:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1743 Any time you can add to your soil organic matter you should. My opinion only. However, if you still wish to sell it, I buy it for near $35 per ton but I bale it. If my math is correct that comes to around $.61 per bale. Out of the mow during peak straw season in the winter it can bring as much as $1.50 per bale but $1.00 to 1.25 is much more common. Go with God, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Phil Batalden To: sanet Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 2:20 PM Subject: wheat straw > I would like to know if anyone out there knows the dollar value of wheat >straw. How much should I charge per ton for the straw, instead of putting >it back on the land? I am guessing 2500 pounds per acre of straw will be >taken off? Should I take it off, this is my second year of transition? > Phil > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 18:28:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA13059 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA17814 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:37:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA17790 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA17077 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.154]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA99017 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b701bed48c$3a51c560$9a7a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: wheat straw Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:50:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1744 Just to clear up the price a little, the prices mentioned were based on a 35 lb. bale which is all we can get into a bale without breaking a lot of bales. The kids like them that light also. The price figures out to be between $57 and $86 per ton out of the barn in peak season. All prices would be affected by supply and demand. Go with God, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer To: Sanet Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 3:26 PM Subject: Fw: wheat straw >Any time you can add to your soil organic matter you should. My opinion >only. However, if you still wish to sell it, I buy it for near $35 per ton >but I bale it. If my math is correct that comes to around $.61 per bale. Out >of the mow during peak straw season in the winter it can bring as much as >$1.50 per bale but $1.00 to 1.25 is much more common. >Go with God, >Paul > >-----Original Message----- >From: Phil Batalden >To: sanet >Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 2:20 PM >Subject: wheat straw > > >> I would like to know if anyone out there knows the dollar value of wheat >>straw. How much should I charge per ton for the straw, instead of putting >>it back on the land? I am guessing 2500 pounds per acre of straw will be >>taken off? Should I take it off, this is my second year of transition? >> Phil >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 19:32:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA14077 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA08258 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:54:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA08050 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990722225406.TXCZ17489.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:54:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3797A1C1.2919483F@home.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:57:05 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1161 References: <199907222210.SAA09124@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1745 > From: "Phil Batalden" > Subject: wheat straw > > I would like to know if anyone out there knows the dollar value of wheat > straw. How much should I charge per ton for the straw, instead of putting > it back on the land? I am guessing 2500 pounds per acre of straw will be > taken off? Should I take it off, this is my second year of transition? > Phil Do you have OM greater than 5%???? or do you lack humus?? Do you want to build that level? Id disc it under IF AND ONLY IF there is adequate N AND Ca( and other minors) to help w/ decompostion. bill evans To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 20:02:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA14591 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA27317 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:27:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA27241 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA18666 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.134] (br-ppp30.hevanet.com [198.5.254.134]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11095 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907222326.QAA11095@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:25:08 -0700 Subject: What's your problem? From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: Sustained Agriculture Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1746 I'm doing a some informal research and could use a bit of information from any and all list members. All I need is: Where you live (city and state, or even just the general area in the state) What fruits you grow. (kind of fruit and varieties) What diseases you have to deal with (or are in the area) How you deal with them (resistant varieties, spray, cultural methods, etc.) You don't even have to include your name (though if you do, you might see it in print sometime) Answers need not be long or detailed (i.e. - fruit - strawberries, var. Tioga, diseases - red stele, botrytis, use resistant varieties planted in raised beds) Thank you for any help you can give. -Lon J. Rombough Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 22 20:38:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15546 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA16540 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:57:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA16490 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.143] (br-ppp19.hevanet.com [198.5.254.143]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA18125; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907222356.QAA18125@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:49:58 -0700 Subject: FW: USDA Testing New Lure to Combat Asian Longhorned Beetle From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA16508 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1747 Disclaimer: This item is being forwarded strictly for the interest of the list members. No endorsement of them or the service that provides them, or any related agencies is intended. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: USDA Testing New Lure to Combat Asian Longhorned Beetle Date: Thu, Jul 22, 1999, 2:06 PM NEWS RELEASE: Glickman Announces USDA Testing of New Lure to Help Combat Asian Longhorned Beetle Permit to Be Required for Interstate Shipment of All Invasive Plants ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Sandy Hays (301) 504-1638, shays@asrr.arsusda.gov July 22, 1999 ---------- WASHINGTON, July 22Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman today announced that USDA researchers have developed and are now testing a new chemical attractant and lure that may help combat the pesky Asian longhorned beetle, an invasive species that has destroyed hardwood trees in Chicago and Brooklyn, New York neighborhoods. "Our goal is to eradicate this pest," said Glickman, addressing the first meeting of the President's Council on Invasive Species. "And this new lure could help us set up a Roach Motel with lifetime rooms set aside specifically for Asian longhorned beetles." Glickman also announced that USDA will prohibit any interstate movement of invasive plants, listed in the Federal Noxious Weed Act regulations, without a permit. Currently, a permit from USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service is required only where a quarantine exists. The new policy, which will be published in the Federal Register soon, will better prevent the unplanned and potentially damaging spread of invasive plants into non-infested areas of the United States. "Believe it or not: People can now order some invasive plants out of gardening catalogs and have them delivered right to their door," said Glickman. "If we are going to fight these weeds and prevent the environmental and economic havoc they can wreak, this step is absolutely essential." To create the beetle lure, USDA scientists first isolated two chemicals produced by male beetles. They then made artificial copies that appear to be potent attractants for both sexes. During promising lab tests, the two synthetic pheromones were the only substances, from either plants or insects, that interested the beetles enough to encourage them to fly toward the source in a wind tunnel. Field tests in China are currently underway. If the attractant is effective and works at appropriate distances, baited traps can be used in the United States to help flush out undetected beetle infestations and monitor high-risk areas, such as import warehouses and ports, for new introductions. The lure was discovered by entomologist Jeffrey Aldrich and chemists James E. Oliver and Aijun Zhang of the Agricultural Research Service's Insect Chemical Ecology Laboratory in Beltsville, Md. Entomologist David Lance of USDA's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service developed the trap. A patent application was filed earlier this month for the new pheromones. Last year, Glickman announced that USDA would ban the import of all untreated solid wood packing material from China, source of the Asian longhorned beetle. This preventive step has already reduced the number of beetle interceptions in the United States. The President established the Council on Invasive Species in February to coordinate and intensify federal, state, and local efforts to fight non-native plants and animals. The Council, which is chaired by Glickman, Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt, and Commerce Secretary William Daley, will work cooperatively with state and local officials, tribes, scientists, universities, environmental groups, farm organizations, shipping interests, and the business community to create a detailed invasive species management plan. Many ecologists believe the spread of exotic species constitutes one of the most serious, yet least appreciated, threats to biodiversity. Invasive species inflict a heavy toll on American agriculture, reducing the quality and raising the cost of food, feed, and fiber. Experts estimate that invasive plants have already infested over 100 million acres. Three million acres, an area twice the size of Delaware, is lost to invasive plants each year. The total economic impact of invasive species on the U.S. economy is estimated to be about $123 billion annually. ---------- Scientific contact: Jeffrey Aldrich, Insect Chemical Ecology Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504- 8531, jaldrich@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 23 09:56:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA24087 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA15213 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:56:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA15098 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA11794; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:54:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-12.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.12) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011780; Fri Jul 23 07:54:44 1999 Message-ID: <00a001bed509$f1da7380$0cf96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Julie" , "sanet-mg" Subject: CBS News update Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:50:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1748 http://db.cbs.com/prd1/now/template.display?p_story=170848&p_who=network This is the web page for the story on GM labeling. I think it's good. I think the closing paragraph makes an interesting point. It says consumer confidence in the safety of GM foods may erode "because" companies are so unwilling to label. Interesting. Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 23 10:06:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA24528 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20454 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:13:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20437 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP312.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.50]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA21625 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37986B33.4F712B7D@sprintmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:16:35 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Glyphosates and NHL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1749 To all those who wanted more references to studies linking glyphosate exposure to non-Hodgkins lynphoma. This is from a recent Rachel's Weekly: One of the herbicides linked to NHL by the most recent Hardell study is glyphosate, sold by Monsanto under the trade name Roundup. A previous study of human subjects in 1998 had implicated Roundup in hairy cell leukemia (cancer of the blood-forming organs), a rare kind of NHL.[5] Several animal studies have shown that Roundup can cause gene mutations and chromosomal aberrations.[3] [5] M. Nordstrom and others, "Occupational exposures, animal exposure, and smoking as risk factors for hairy cell leukaemia evaluated in a case-control study," BRITISH JOURNAL OF CANCER Vol. 77 (1998), pgs. 2048-2052. [3] Lennart Hardell and Mikael Eriksson, "A Case-Control Study of Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Exposure to Pesticides," CANCER Vol. 85, No. 6 (March 15, 1999), pgs. 1353-1360. What's even more eye-opening is the studies listed which link atrazine to NHL Check it out at: http://www.rachel.org. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 23 13:08:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29393 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06188 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:20:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06102 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA27058 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.173.236.37] (PPPb20-ResaleOakland1-2R1016.saturn.bbn.com [4.16.33.79]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24328 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:18:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: greenman@pop2.igc.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:16:49 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Douglas B. Johnson" Subject: Re: wheat straw Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1750 With regards to wheat straw, price and markets depend on your geographic location. For example, there is a company in Minnesota that makes particle board and other products (really cool stuff!) from wheatstraw. I am not in my office, so I regret that I cannot pass on the name and phone number. But, check with your state department of agriculture's new markets office and see what you find. I know a farmer in Oregon is making specialty building products from straw off of his own land and neighboring acreage. Having shared the above, I should add that I share Paul Schmitmeyer's view that whenever you can add organic matter, do it. You have more options if you have supplementary organic matter to incorporate for the straw loss. Best Wishes, Douglas B. Johnson, Ph.D. Senior Associate Alameda Center for Environmental Technologies 851 West Midway Avenue Alameda Point Alameda, CA 94501 phone: 510.749.6869 fax: 510.749.6862 email: johnson@greenstart.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 23 16:35:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA04744 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA15301 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:40:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mx03.together.net (mx03.together.net [204.97.120.63]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15221 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoo.uvm.edu (dial-238-btvt.udial.together.net [209.91.1.178]) by mx03.together.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12500 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3798D30A.51B88095@zoo.uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:39:39 -0500 From: Fred Magdoff Reply-To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: fyi re usda and gmos Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1751 Thought folks might find this of interest--- FRED

      From: Robert Weissman <rob@essential.org>
      Subject: USDA: Rudely Defending Biotech Foods
      Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:15:44 -0400
      To: Multiple recipients of list CORP-FOCUS <corp-focus@essential.org>
     

    When Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman wanted to address the National
    Press Club in Washington, D.C. to rave about the biotech industry and its
    wonders, he called Gene Grabowski.

    Grabowski, a former Associated Press reporter and currently a spokesperson
    for the Grocery Manufacturers of America, sits on the Press Club's
    speakers committee.

    Grabowski was happy to oblige Glickman's request. After all, GMA and
    Glickman are bosom buddies on the issue of biotech foods -- they both
    agree that since biotech foods are no different from conventional foods,
    there is no need for labeling.

    Last week, Glickman addressed a National Press Club ballroom packed with
    biotech industry and agribusiness executives, with reporters bringing up
    the rear.

    And he didn't disappoint them. Glickman hyped the benefits of biotech
    foods, and downplayed the risks. The title of the speech reflects his
    affection for the industry: "How Will Scientists, Farmers, and Consumers
    Learn to Love Biotechnology, and What Happens If They Don't?"

    Some reporters misinterpreted Glickman's "five principles to guide the
    oversight of biotechnology in the 21st century" -- an arm's length
    regulatory process, consumer acceptance, fairness to farmers, corporate
    citizenship, and fair and open trade -- as meaning the government was
    serious about reining in an industry that has run roughshod over public
    health concerns.

    In fact, the speech could have been written -- was it? -- by the
    Biotechnology Industry Association (BIO) or its member companies such as
    Monsanto and Genentech.

    The day after Glickman's speech, a reporter asked BIO president Carl
    Feldbaum whether the speech represented a "big blow" to the biotech
    industry.

    "It was a good speech," Feldbaum said. "We are quite comfortable with his
    five principles. As you get into the details, I could not find much to
    quibble with. It is in no way a blow to the biotech industry. It was quite
    positive."

    After the speech was over -- and the pro-biotech audience loved it -- we
    joined a group of reporters to seek some clarifications from the
    Secretary.

    We asked Glickman why the USDA spent $100,000 to help develop the
    terminator seed technology -- if farmers plant these seeds, still in final
    development, the resulting crop would produce seed that is sterile, and
    farmers would be forced to buy new seed from the companies.

    At first, Glickman handed the question over to his aide, Keith Pitts. But
    we wanted Glickman to answer the question.

    "I certainly don't like the name of it -- it scares the hell out of me,"
    Glickman said.

    Okay, so the name scares you. But what about the technology itself? Does
    that scare the hell out of you?

    "We need to study this," he said.

    But sir, do you think this technology should be allowed onto the market?

    Another Glickman associate yells that "he has answered the question."

    But Glickman realizes he hasn't answered the question.

    "In the future, we have to be very careful at USDA so that we don't
    finance the kind of arrangements that exclude family farmer choices,"
    Glickman said.

    In his speech, Glickman made the point that genetically engineered foods
    are already in the food supply. For 1998 crops, 44 percent of U.S.
    soybeans and 36 percent of U.S. corn were produced from genetically
    modified seeds.

    Are you concerned Mr. Secretary that we are already eating genetically
    modified foods without knowing it, without it being labeled?

    "You may be, I don't know if you are or not," Glickman responded. "I eat
    everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is safe and
    good."

    "By and large, people have confidence in this country's system of food
    safety regulation," Glickman said. "The FDA is viewed as independent."

    But the FDA is being sued for allowing biotech foods on the market without
    adequate review. And the man who approved the foods at the FDA came to the
    FDA from a law firm where he represented Monsanto, and after his stint at
    the FDA, he went to work directly for Monsanto's Washington office, where
    he sits today.

    "All I can say is that the food system is safe," Glickman said.

    Glickman was dismissive of the Europeans for opposing biotech imports from
    the United States. "When you go over there [to Europe] the attitude is --
    don't confuse me with the facts," Glickman said.

    In fact, European concerns about food safety are grounded in a moral and
    ethical belief system foreign to corporatists like Glickman.

    The Prince of Wales (Prince Charles) has raised the question -- "do we
    have the right to experiment with, and commercialize, the building blocks
    of life?"

    "I personally have no wish to eat anything produced by genetic
    modification, nor do I knowingly offer this sort of produce to my family
    or guests," Prince Charles has said.

    When asked about Prince Charles' critique, Glickman was flip.

    "I don't ask him to be Prince, and he doesn't ask me to be Secretary,"
    Glickman said.

    Before boarding the elevator to leave the Press Club, USDA communications
    director Tom Amontree accused us of being "rude" and not "nice."

    In what sense were we rude?

    You are rude because you were being "very argumentative" and you were
    asking "leading questions," he says.

    Our view is that Glickman is being rude to the American people by
    kowtowing to a powerful and reckless industry that is playing genetic
    roulette with our future.
     
    He is recklessly running roughshod over the precautionary principle, which
    should underpin our regulation of technology. The precautionary principle
    says, in brief: If you have scientific uncertainty, and if you have the
    suspicion of harm, then act with caution.
     
    Glickman has thrown caution to the wind. Who will hold him
    accountable?

    Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Corporate Crime
    Reporter. Robert Weissman is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based
    Multinational Monitor. They are co-authors of Corporate Predators: The
    Hunt for MegaProfits and the Attack on Democracy (Common Courage Press,
    1999, http://www.corporatepredators.org)

    (c) Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Focus on the Corporation is a weekly column written by Russell Mokhiber
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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 23 17:20:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA06060 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA15942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:31:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nt-01.techplus.com (nt-01.escape.ca [204.112.144.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA15834 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from glen.techplus.com ([207.161.170.23]) by nt-01.techplus.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42902U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA623 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:30:43 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990723153344.009a4730@agrimark.com> X-Sender: agri@agrimark.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:35:05 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: agri@agrimark.com (agri@agrimark.com) Subject: 5 years Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1752 It has been 5 years since we first started out on the Internet and they have been 5 fun filled years. Right from our very first sale to Lewis Cattle Oilers http://www.lewiscattleoilers.com (which has seen much change from the 1st design) all the way to our latest site to be launched (just before print) Metro Trailer http://www.metrotrailers.com To help celebrate our fifth year in web development we wanted to give you all something back. To do this we are giving prizes out and there are over 650 prizes, freebees and cash discounts to be won. For information and an entry form, please visit our main site http://www.agrimark.com and there is a link right off the home page. We would like to thank everybody for the support in the last 5 years and look forward to many many more. Thanks Glen Munford Glen Munford Agri Marketing Ltd Box 218 Morris, Manitoba R0G 1K0 ph- 204-746-2101 Fax - 204-746-2189 http://www.agrimark.com http://www.tranzmedia.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 23 18:02:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07481 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA12251 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:13:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA12238 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.224] (dial178.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.178]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA08823 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1753 Dear sanet, In Dan Glickman's recent speech about biotech to the National Press Club, he states the following: "Agricultural biotechnology has enourmous potential to help combat hunger. Genetically modified plants have the potential to resist killer weeds that are, literally, starving people in Africa and other parts of the developing world." Does anyone have information about what killer weeds he's talking about? What developing country food crops are in the pipeline for killer weed resistance? In another corner of USDA, the ERS released information on July 20, 1999, about GMO crops entitled, "Impacts of Adopting Genetically Engineered Crops in the U.S. -- Preliminary Results By contrast, increased use of herbicide-tolerant soybeans (17 percent of 1997 soybean acres) produced only a small increase in yield, and no significant change in variable profits in 1997. This being the case, how is Glickman able to predict the future so confidently? Thanks for your thoughts, Nathan Boone To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 23 23:20:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA13042 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA00062 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00051 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA12520; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA03058; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:24:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:24:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Nathan/Rachna Boone cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1754 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Nathan/Rachna Boone wrote: > In Dan Glickman's recent speech about biotech to the National Press Club, > he states the following: > > "Agricultural biotechnology has enourmous potential to help combat hunger. > Genetically modified plants have the potential to resist killer weeds that > are, literally, starving people in Africa and other parts of the developing > world." How cynical, untruthful and disengenuous. I expect the only "killer weeds" certain African farmers are really worried about exist in the "terminator" family. > Does anyone have information about what killer weeds he's talking about? > What developing country food crops are in the pipeline for killer weed > resistance? RAFI posted several news updates about this awhile back. The full text of them can be found here: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/seeds+plants/African-seed-saving Here is part of it: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:28:05 +0200 From: Lee Row To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: African seed saving Thanks to Kelly Morris, Togo-L list Winnipeg, Canada (Rural Advancement Foundation International, February 18, 1999) - The following document was released by the Rural Advancement Foundation International on 17 February 1999: Fifteen Francophone African states, among them some of the poorest countries in the world, are under pressure to sign away the right of more than 20 million small-holder farmers to save and exchange crop seed. The decision to abandon Africa's 12,000-year tradition of seed saving will be finalized at a meeting February 22-25 in the Central African Republic. The 15 governments have been told to adopt draconian intellectual property legislation for plant varieties in order to conform to a provision in the World Trade Organization (WTO) that obliges signatories to "protect" plant varieties. The legislation (a kind of legal "Terminator" because it prohibits farmers from replanting "protected" seed) is also known, euphemistically, as "Plant Breeders' Rights". If adopted, the legislation will throw some of Africa's poorest countries into an intellectual property cartel dominated by a handful of OECD states led by the USA, the UK, and Japan. During meetings in East Africa a few days ago, RAFI's Pat Mooney and Hope Shand learned that OAPI (l'Organisation Africaine de la Propriete Intellectuelle/African Intellectual Property Organization) has agreed to adopt "UPOV 91" - the world's most restrictive form of Plant Breeders' Rights. The Convention is managed by the Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants (UPOV) - a subsidiary treaty of the Geneva-based World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). "Francophone African countries are being bullied into adopting UPOV'91", says Pat Mooney, "even though the WTO is about to conduct a review of its plant variety 'protection' clause." Adds Hope Shand, "The review is not expected to be completed before 2001. Many analysts predict that a whole new trade negotiating round may be launched before the review is completed." "African patent offices are being asked to climb on a wagon other countries in other regions may never accept," agrees Pat Mooney, "Conceivably, a new trade round could render compliance unnecessary. Since six of the 15 OAPI states are "least developed countries" (according to UNDP definitions), regardless of the review or a new negotiating round, they have until at least 2006 before they have to introduce any kind of legislation." "In a worst case scenario," Hope Shand concludes, "OAPI members would still have the option to accept legislation that would allow farmers to save, re-use, and even sell purchased seed. Where is the pressure coming from and why are sovereign countries selling off the historic rights of their farmers?" Urgent Action: RAFI is writing to each of the 15 OAPI countries, contacting both Ministers of Agriculture and Ministers responsible for patent offices. "Depending on the country," Pat Mooney notes, "between one-fifth and one-half of all the farmers are small-holders who depend heavily on their ability to save seed in order to keep production reliable and costs low. There are at least 20 million such farmers in OAPI states," Mooney says, "Next week's decision could be a major blow to the region's food security. We suspect that most Agriculture Ministers don't even know what their patent offices are proposing to do." [for more information on OAPI see the document at the above URL] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 00:52:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA14514 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA26034 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:51:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA25990 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.244.71]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990724035039.CPDH5731@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:50:39 +0000 Message-ID: <379937EB.B5A788E1@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:50:03 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3C072731F022986CB1FB54DB" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1755 --------------3C072731F022986CB1FB54DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "Agricultural biotechnology has enourmous potential to help combat hunger. > Genetically modified plants have the potential to resist killer weeds that > are, literally, starving people in Africa and other parts of the developing > world." > As far as I can see, the only hunger agricultural biotechnology has the enormous potential to combat is the greed of the biotech-pesticide/pharmaceutical industry!!! Bunny Snow --------------3C072731F022986CB1FB54DB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    "Agricultural biotechnology has enourmous potential to help combat hunger.
    Genetically modified plants have the potential to resist killer weeds that
    are, literally, starving people in Africa and other parts of the developing
    world."
    As far as I can see, the only hunger agricultural biotechnology has the enormous potential to combat is the greed of the biotech-pesticide/pharmaceutical industry!!!

    Bunny Snow
      --------------3C072731F022986CB1FB54DB-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 02:12:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA15444 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 02:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA17214 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:12:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA17086 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA14818 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA19898 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:11:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:11:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1756 Found in the alt.permaculture newsgroup: Australian Broadcasting Corp. (ABC) site: http://www.powerup.com.au/~1earth/permacult.htm. The Farmer & The Permaculturist I love a well-kept country, a land without a tree, a land controlled by Round-Up, not a weed in sight to see! I love my back-pack sprayer, it's pesticides and spray, my chainsaw and my dozer, no weeds get in my way! By Mark Fry & Andre of Permaculture Noosa Inc To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 02:34:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA15609 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 02:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA28082 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:31:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA27969 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.244.71]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990724053024.YUGG25099@worldnet.att.net>; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 05:30:24 +0000 Message-ID: <37994F4B.77BBF8B3@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:29:47 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg , organic gardening discussion list Subject: It's Raining pesticides Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1757 I know that no one here uses herbicides or other pesticides on this list, but I thought this may be of interest to those of you who want to see the world with your eyes wide opened. I wonder if this could be a reason why certain cancers are increasing in certain areas of the U.S. more than other areas. I wonder if those areas where the increases are occurring are receiving their drinking water from surface waters or shallow aquifers, which may be more likely to be contaminated with weed killers. Example, studies on laboratory animals show an increase of breast tumors with the hormone disrupting herbicide atrazine. Atrazine is widely used in the U.S. and some areas of the country, such as Burlington, Vermont drinking water comes from Lake Champlain. Could that be the reason breast cancer is so high there? I realize that atrazine is also found in groundwater when that water is tested for contamination. I urge you to read the full article at the URL listed below. ~Bunny Snow _____________________________________________________________________________ http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19990403/newsstory12.html [Archive: 3 April 1999] The New Scientist It's raining pesticides Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie **RAIN IS NOT what it used to be. A new study reveals that much of the precipitation in Europe contains such high levels of dissolved pesticides that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking water. Studies in Switzerland have found that rain is laced with toxic levels of atrazine, alachlor and other commonly used crop sprays. "Drinking water standards are regularly exceeded in rain," says Stephan Mller, a chemist at the Swiss Federal Institute for Environmental Science and Technology in Dbendorf. The chemicals appear to have evaporated from fields and become part of the clouds. Both the European Union and Switzerland have set a limit of 100 nanograms for any particular pesticide in a litre of drinking water. But, especially in the first minutes of a heavy storm, rain can contain much more than that. In a study to be published by Mller and his colleague Thomas Bucheli in Analytical Chemistry this summer, one sample of rainwater contained almost 4000 nanograms per litre of 2,4-dinitrophenol, a widely used pesticide. Previously, the authors had shown that in rain samples taken from 41 storms, nine contained more than 100 nanograms of atrazine per litre, one of them around 900 nanograms... Mller warns that the growing practice of using rainwater that falls onto roofs to recharge underground water may be adding to the danger. This water often contains dissolved herbicides that had been added to roofing materials, such as bitumen sheets, to prevent vegetation growing. He suggests that the first flush of rains should be diverted into sewers to minimise the pollution of drinking water, which is not usually treated to remove these herbicides and pesticides. Meanwhile, Swedish researchers have linked pesticides to one of the most rapidly increasing cancers in the Western world. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, which has risen by 73 per cent in the US since 1973, is probably caused by several commonly used crop sprays, say the scientists...** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 02:58:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA15816 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 02:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA12734 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:52:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA12627 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29547 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [4.16.32.104] (PPPa45-ResaleOakland1-2R1016.saturn.bbn.com [4.16.32.104]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11277 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:49:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: greenman@pop2.igc.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:26:23 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Douglas B. Johnson" Subject: easier to swallow? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1758 Sanetters, Check out this snipit from Environews. Enviro-Newsbrief July 26, 1999 The following is a daily update summarizing news of interest to EPA staff. It includes information from current news sources: newspapers, newsletters, and other publications. For more information, contact the EPA Headquarters Information Resources Center at (202) 260-5922, or e-mail LIBRARY-HQ. **Viewpoints expressed in the following summaries do not necessarily reflect EPA policy** Scientists Find New Way to Manipulate Plant Genes and Modify Crop Traits. The Wall Street Journal, July 20, 1999, pB6. Genetic engineering of plants may soon be a thing of the past, if a recent breakthrough pans out. The new technique was described in two articles in the current journal of the National Academy of Sciences. Borrowed from a technique that is used to treat genetic illness in humans, the new process does not involve adding any foreign genes. Genes already present in the plant are manipulated to do things, such as modifying a wheat plant for making heartier bread, reducing the caffeine in coffee beans or eliminating fatty acids in cooking oils. One article was written by researchers at Boyce Thompson Institute for Plant Research at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. The other article was written by scientists at Pioneer Hi- Bred International Incorporated, an Iowa seed giant that has agreed to be acquired by the DuPont company. The new method is called "chimeraplasty', and it allows scientists to turn on or off or change genes already present in plants. Because it does not involve the insertion of foreign genes, researcher hope it will be more acceptable to environmentalists who fear unintended consequences of genetically modified plants. There has been much resistance here and especially in the European Union to genetically modified crops. Patents for the new process are held by Kimeragen Incorporated, a closely-held firm in Newtown, Pennsylvania. Kimeragen got the nonprofit Boyce Thompson Institute to help it figure out how to apply its technique to plants. Best Wishes, Douglas B. Johnson, Ph.D. Senior Associate Alameda Center for Environmental Technologies 851 West Midway Avenue Alameda Point Alameda, CA 94501 phone: 510.749.6869 fax: 510.749.6862 email: johnson@greenstart.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From grargall@alphalink.com.au Sat Jul 24 05:27:24 1999 Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA17138 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 05:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d03-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.130] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA20694; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:17:01 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: Aussie poem, not any more Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:20:35 +1000 Message-ID: <001001bed5b5$c95a7ca0$8279a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1759 Lawrence That little poem has more meaning when you know that back in the days when school children learned poetry, every Australian schoolchild learned, by rote: "My Country" by Dorothea Mackellar [1908] I love a sunburnt country, A land of sweeping plains, Of droughts and flooding rains. I love her far horizons, I love her jewelled sea, Her beauty and her terror, The wide brown land for me. [to the best the old fogeys here can recall the words Saturday night.] which does have the smell of nature, room for permaculture, while the parody below conveys nicely the awful stink of too many contemporary conventional attitudes Dennis ======= Lawrence London's posting was >Found in the alt.permaculture newsgroup: Australian Broadcasting Corp. (ABC) site: http://www.powerup.com.au/~1earth/permacult.htm. The Farmer & The Permaculturist I love a well-kept country, a land without a tree, a land controlled by Round-Up, not a weed in sight to see! I love my back-pack sprayer, it's pesticides and spray, my chainsaw and my dozer, no weeds get in my way! By Mark Fry & Andre of Permaculture Noosa Inc From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 06:15:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA17509 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 06:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA12436 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 05:17:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA12342 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 05:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d03-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.130] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA20694; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:17:01 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: Aussie poem, not any more Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:20:35 +1000 Message-ID: <001001bed5b5$c95a7ca0$8279a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1760 Lawrence That little poem has more meaning when you know that back in the days when school children learned poetry, every Australian schoolchild learned, by rote: "My Country" by Dorothea Mackellar [1908] I love a sunburnt country, A land of sweeping plains, Of droughts and flooding rains. I love her far horizons, I love her jewelled sea, Her beauty and her terror, The wide brown land for me. [to the best the old fogeys here can recall the words Saturday night.] which does have the smell of nature, room for permaculture, while the parody below conveys nicely the awful stink of too many contemporary conventional attitudes Dennis ======= Lawrence London's posting was >Found in the alt.permaculture newsgroup: Australian Broadcasting Corp. (ABC) site: http://www.powerup.com.au/~1earth/permacult.htm. The Farmer & The Permaculturist I love a well-kept country, a land without a tree, a land controlled by Round-Up, not a weed in sight to see! I love my back-pack sprayer, it's pesticides and spray, my chainsaw and my dozer, no weeds get in my way! By Mark Fry & Andre of Permaculture Noosa Inc To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 10:02:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19722 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16478 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:17:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16392 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA13308 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 24 Jul 99 09:17:17 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 24 Jul 99 09:17:12 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:17:10 EST Subject: Re: easier to swallow? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <8FC5950182@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1761 Douglas: is this not what traitor genes do? Turn off normal plant functions, and in such a way that they can be turned back on only by buying a proprietor product which just happens to be opened by the same company that sells the seed? Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 11:06:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20535 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05071 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:34:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05008 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3Z7H2Z7W>; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:28:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" Subject: RE: easier to swallow? Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:28:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1762 ann, i think similarly to many others, i'm trying to get some handles for grasping the genetic modification debate . . . trying to put the article doug posted into some context, it seems to me that we might distinguish several different types of modification that go beyond classical breeding by selection . . . 1) one is where we identify an existing gene (or gene complex) with the capability for altering organism development and we identify a chemical substance which can be applied to modify the action of that genetic unit while the organism is developing 2) a second is where we identify an existing genetic unit that has the potential to modify organism development but whose action is being suppressed by other parts of the genome, and we modify the genome so that the suppression no longer occurs 3) a third is like the second, but we modify the existing genome so that the suppression can be turned on or off by the application of chemical substances during the development of the organism 4) beyond these three, there are the various kinds of genetic engineering that involve putting new genetic material into the genome my sense is that the news release doug posted was an example of (2), but perhaps you can clarify that for me . . . i'm also wondering if you can suggest any examples of (1) and (3), and if you can suggest how common are each of (1), (2) and (3) cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: E. Ann Clark, Associate > Professor[SMTP:ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca] > Sent: Saturday 24 July 1999 10:17 AM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: easier to swallow? > > Douglas: is this not what traitor genes do? Turn off normal plant > functions, and in such a way that they can be turned back on only by > buying a proprietor product which just happens to be opened by the > same company that sells the seed? Ann > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca > Dr. E. Ann Clark > Associate Professor > Crop Science > University of Guelph > Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 > Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 > FAX: 519 763-8933 > http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 11:26:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20895 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19280 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:58:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19266 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA15575 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 24 Jul 99 10:59:13 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 24 Jul 99 10:59:11 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:59:09 EST Subject: RE: easier to swallow? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <9178B95857@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1763 Craig: one source that might be able to clarify these issues is the RAFI homepage (Rural Advancement Foundation International, I think it stands for). This is run by Pat Mooney out of Winnipeg, and I believe this is the group that coined the terms "terminator" and "traitor". I do not doubt that the range of applications you mention is realistic, and that others can be envisioned. What I am increasingly aware of, however, is that "no gene is an island", and that the perception of genes as discrete entities is really a misnomer. Genes act in concert with other genes, and more than that, the physical placement of genes within and among chromosomes moderates expression of the individual genes. Mae Wan Ho's book on Genetic Engineering: Dream or Nightmare, covers this authoritatively and readably. So, whether inserting a wholly novel gene or simply enhancing or silencing existing genes, the fundamental issues of gene-to-gene interaction (to say nothing of gene x environment interactions) remain the same. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 11:59:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21336 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08385 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:29:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08312 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DianeCooner ([209.249.70.153]) by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with SMTP id AAA169; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:29:04 -0700 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:31:27 -0700 Message-ID: <01BED5AE.EC4F5340.amani@wclynx.com> From: Diane Cooner To: "'sksnow@worldnet.att.net'" , SANET-mg Subject: RE: Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:31:27 -0700 Organization: Mt. Jackson Design Group X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1764 I would refer everyone back to Charles Benbrook's post last week on RR soybean yield drag. I would like to know how Mr. Glickman figures biotech is going to feed the hungry world when the mean yields are showing up less than conventional ones. A word missing from much of this dialog is "lies". I know it's a fighting word, but everytime I read these government agent comments, that's the one word that keeps coming into MY mind! diane -----Original Message----- From: Bunny Snow [SMTP:sksnow@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 8:50 PM To: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds > "Agricultural biotechnology has enourmous potential to help combat hunger. > Genetically modified plants have the potential to resist killer weeds that > are, literally, starving people in Africa and other parts of the developing > world." > As far as I can see, the only hunger agricultural biotechnology has the enormous potential to combat is the greed of the biotech-pesticide/pharmaceutical industry!!! Bunny Snow << File: ATT00000.htm >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 13:38:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22602 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA08382 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:05:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08371 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ztm51-27.Zoetermeer.NL.net by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via ztm51-27.Zoetermeer.NL.net [195.108.245.192] with SMTP for id TAA17160 (8.8.8/1.19); Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:05:00 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199907241705.TAA17160@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> From: "Frits v/d Laan" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:55:49 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Belgium dioxin scandal Reply-to: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net In-reply-to: <199907182210.SAA10887@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1765 > BELGIUM-DIOXIN SCANDAL > July 16 /99 > AP > BRUSSELS, Belgium //-SNIP//. Separately, the > story says that Belgian farmers complained that experts determining > which farms can resume deliveries to slaughterhouses are moving too > slowly and urged the new government of Premier Guy Verhofstadt to > replace them. Tens of thousands of pigs, cows and chickens are > languishing in crowded conditions on Belgian farms. During a recent > spell of hot weather, farm animals suffocated by the thousands in > cramped, overheated conditions. > > Probably the question we don't want to ask is, why are the animals in > "cramped, overheated consitions." It's even worse. Because the chickens were to big to be slaughtered they were thrown into the destructionovens and burned alive. Who cares anyway. The story in the newspaper did not tell how many were treated this way but I think this is a very good reason to ask questions about animalwelfare before you buy meat. I don't eat industrial or intensive-farming meat for years anymore. Organic meat at least is animalfriendly and (for the US) hormonefree (in EU all meat is hormonefree) Frits v/d Laan Netherlands To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 13:41:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22641 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA13784 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA13711 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22399 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26336 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:12:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:12:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: SANET-mg Subject: RE: Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds [Summer 1999 Whole Earth] In-Reply-To: <01BED5AE.EC4F5340.amani@wclynx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1766 The Summer 1999 issue of Whole Earth (Whole Earth Review <-- Co-Evolution Quarterly <-- Whole Earth Catalog) is mostly devoted to current agricultural issues with emphasis on genetially altered crops. On the cover: Cityscapes & Farmlands "Kindred Spirits or Contrary Friends" Inside TOC: Special: Cities Special: HUman Rights Special: FARMS - Globalocal Soy [14 articles] and much more This is a great quarterly magazine worth subscribing to. Those with websites may qualify for a free subscription by linking to the WE website (details below) http://www.wholeearthmag.com link@wholeearthmag.com 415-256-2800 Enjoy. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 13:56:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22808 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA23297 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:30:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA23188 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA19744 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 24 Jul 99 13:30:34 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 24 Jul 99 13:30:25 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:30:24 EST Subject: RE: government and industry X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <93FE160606@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1767 Folks: I have been following the dialogue on Glickman's speech. The mention of the "L" word (lie) brought me back to a question I keep getting from the press lately, namely, why is it that government (equally true in Canada as in the US) is so thoroughly and unambiguously committed to supporting the interests of industry? The question arises, from many disparate sources, because the process of promoting industry interests necessarily contravenes, compromises, and ultimately countervails against the presumptive and still popularly believed role of government in protecting the interests of society. You know, "of the people, by the people, for the people" and that kind of stuff? This transformation also results in the most transparently outrageous statements from elected officials, as in the current context of Glickman's speech. Equally imponderably dubious statements and speeches have been imanating from the lips of Canaidan officials in recent months - so this is an international affliction. The context of the current dialogue is genetic engineering, but I think it could equally well be biocides, or power-concentrating agricultural practices in general. Perhaps it is equally true of other contexts outside of my understanding. So, my question to you is "why" and "when"? Why is government so thoroughly, openly, and indeed, unashamedly abrogating its historical responsibility for protecting the interests of its citizens? 1. Is there some kind of implicit assumption that what is good for industry must, necessarily, be good for society as well (evidence, pls)? 2. Can it be as simple as campaign contributions/political influence? This seems implausible in countries with short campaign windows and correspondingly modest opportunities for explicit corruption, yet this same phenomenon seems to pertain globally, regardless of the density of lobbyists per elected official. 3. Or do elected officials and industry interests just swim in the same circles, intermarry and produce fertile offspring, and just basically interweave quasi-metabolic connections engendering sympathetic responsiveness when it comes to policymaking? 4. Is it just easier for elected officials to keep within the fast- flowing stream-of-consciousness which originated with Reagan/Thatcher/Mulrooney, namely, "deregulation and let the buyer beware", than to stand back and see it for what it is? I don't know, which is why I am asking. I'd like to have an answer for the interviewers who justifiably curious why no one seems to be minding the shop anymore. I also want to know "when". Has it always been this way and I was just too blind or disinterested to to see, or is this a recent phenomenon? I await your thoughts. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 15:15:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA23917 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA07885 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07877 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA25810 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA03297 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-25.nidlink.com [216.18.141.32]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA11618 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907241841.LAA11618@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:49:56 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Ann's Question re Gov't and Industry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1768 Ann -- You raise interesting and important questions. I think your answer 3 is closest to the truth. I doubt its 1 or 2 to any significant degree. Number 4 could be restated as "do today what was done yesterday"; it's easier to go with the flow than to change it. This too plays a role in the pro-biotech stance of the gov't. I have followed and been involved with developments at the national level on the ag-food-technology-environment-policy front since the late 1970s. I think there was a sea-change in the 1980s, a decade of virtually non-stop attacks by Reagan, and later Bush, on the federal government. Both the science-based agencies and Congress changed incrementally over the 12 years Republicans ran government. Senior officials, all sympathetic to the business community and dedicated to limiting the ability of agencies to act on the public's behalf, cooperated with the trade associations, consultants, the Hill, Washington lobbying crowd to punish gov't scientists/officials who got off the reservation. They also were tireless in finding better ways to ball up the administrative process with lots of rules, hurdles, impossible burdens of proof, opportunities for industry to counter adverse findings by government by collecting more data which, if nothing else, could be reliably counted on to delay actions by another 5-10 years. That's why EPA still cannot get high-risk, 1950s era pesticide technology off the market, despite the clear mandate of the FQPA and all the great new chemistry farmers can use, not to mention bioIPM and other "management based solutions to management based problems," to borrow one of your important contributions to the Sanet dialogue. The beginnings of the pro-biotech stance in the federal government occurred in the mid-1980s, again with and through the business-dominated, by then seemingly permanent Republican power structure. Clinton's victory was most unexpected and obviously shook things up. But Gore had been a biotech booster already for over a decade, and things just continued to evolve in the same way. Despite almost 8 years of Democratic control, the ex. branch agencies are still dominated by the career officials/staff that came in during the Republican years. I see little difference in how USDA and EPA agencies, at the staff level, function today compared to 1992 when Clinton was elected. If the Dems hold the White House, another 4 years might be enough to start to bring some new blood and new commitment to federal agencies. Don't hold your breadthe though. And last, a huge part of the problem in the U.S. has been the collapse of Congress as a meaningful partner in the policy process. I worked for the Congress 1981-1984. Back then, despite the craziness of the EPA scandal and attempts to rewrite virtually all environmental and public health laws, the place had integrity, the members could have intelligent discussions and often did work out good solutions through an open bipartisan process. Beginning with the Jim Wright episode, Congress basically tore its guts out live on camera, and is now overwhelmed with the stench of what it has brought upon itself. It's a miracle they can get a budget passed. As the ex. branch agencies and Congress have gone south, other forces -- mostly the permanent influence bureaucracy in D.C. -- have filled the void. So, if you wonder why Glickman's speech and USDA policy is so biased, look no further than who is investing in influencing the message. The biotech business community has spent hundreds of millions on D.C. "corporate affairs" and these affairs have become those of government. I hear there is more news yet to break on the Glickman speech, what was in it, what was not and why. Perhaps we should return to these themes when the story unfolds, as I suspect it will soon. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 15:54:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA24483 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01294 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:22:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01281 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA24156; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA07334; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:22:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:22:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: government and industry In-Reply-To: <93FE160606@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1769 On Sat, 24 Jul 1999, E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor wrote: > So, my question to you is "why" and "when"? Why is government so > thoroughly, openly, and indeed, unashamedly abrogating its historical > responsibility for protecting the interests of its citizens? Its certainly doing a good job of protecting the interests of a few of them and ignoring the rest. > 2. Can it be as simple as campaign contributions/political influence? > This seems implausible in countries with short campaign windows and > correspondingly modest opportunities for explicit corruption, yet > this same phenomenon seems to pertain globally, regardless of the > density of lobbyists per elected official. Contributions can be wafted abroad from country to country through hidden channels - this has certainly been in the news in the past - all the more reason to vote intelligently. For me its demopublicans vs Libertarians . I'll vote L. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 17:38:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26478 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA01209 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:00:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mx01.together.net (mx01.together.net [204.97.120.61]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01157 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoo.uvm.edu (dial-230-btvt.udial.together.net [209.91.1.170]) by mx01.together.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA30156; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 16:59:52 -0400 Message-ID: <379A3751.3934C3AC@zoo.uvm.edu> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 16:59:45 -0500 From: Fred Magdoff Reply-To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: government and industry References: <93FE160606@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1770 Ann and Chuck, It has been going on for a long time. The people operating both the political and economic aspects of the "system" do come from the same families, "swim in the in the same circles", generally have the same values, and do mutually "support" each other. It is only when a tremendous pressure is brought to bear (as with labor strikes during the depression or the early post war period, the civil rights and anti-war movements of the '60s, or the more recent environmental movement) that the political folks will respond to "populist" desires. However, what new is the vast increase in economic power in the hands of fewer corporations (although there was something similar going on at the turn of the last century, which resulted in the anti-trust act---not exactly vigorously enforced at the moment) and their ability to spend as much money as they want to control the debate on any issue (see below). Before the 1970s they had no such first amendment right for corporations. Chuck Benbrook's answer provides an important dimension to what is happening (regarding the effects of staffing key government agencies during Reagan and Bush and the weakness of Congress brought on partially by their own doing and partially by a concerted effort on the part of the right and by corporations to convince the public that government can do no good and that a weak federal government is a good thing.) However, the heart of the issue seems to me to be that given a system in which there is a great disparity of wealth by individuals and such wealth in corporate hands, a strong government working in the public interest is the only way to check such influence. As pointed out by the Bill Moyers program I posted info about some weeks ago (SEE BELOW for ordering information), the Supreme Court has held that corporations have the same right to first amendment free speech rights as any person. This has created a situation where corporations can spend as much money as they wish to control an agenda, as long as they don't say "vote for (or against)" some person. They can vilify the person or just make up nonsense about someone or some issue, and it is all "protected" as free speech. Combine this with the control of the media by few corporations, that also have interests in many other sectors, and it is clear that the corporate effort to get both government and media off their backs has been a huge success. That is why there is little else than the "company line" in the mass media. If the Bill Moyers tape is too heavy, take a look at the Eddie Murphy movie from a few years ago, the distinguished gentleman. Eddie (as Congressman) finds it hard to believe that it really doesn't matter which side he's on regarding the sugar quota - there's money in it for him from both sides. He figures that this is better than the street scams he use to run before he was accidentally elected. [Infrequently, sanity actually prevails over economic-political corporate power. In a recent example from the military-industrial complex, that Eisenhower warned us about so many years ago, both industry and the Defense Department are astounded that congress is considering cutting off funding for an airplane just because it is vastly over budget and doesn't work (what could those congressfolks be thinking about?). It seems that without some Georgians (like Newt) in powerful positions to go to bat for the expensive F-22 lemon produced in their disctrict/state, congress might actually do the right thing. But even this aint over yet.] We cannot have a democracy in any meaningful sense of that word as long as money sets the agenda and has the power to squelch those that don't cooperate with their interests. Of course, you can vote for tweedle dee, who is only marginally different from tweedle dum (or the other way around, if you wish to be so bold). But I feel that a democracy has a little different meaning than that. The campaign finance "reform" that has been discussed in the US congress doesn't even begin to get at what is needed to establish a meaningful democratic process where decisions are made by an informed citizenry or elected officials working on their behalf. For the Moyers program, "Bill Moyer's Free Speech for Sale" call 1-800-336-1917. It's $29.95 plus $4.95 shipping . FRED E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor wrote: > Folks: I have been following the dialogue on Glickman's speech. The > mention of the "L" word (lie) brought me back to a question I keep > getting from the press lately, namely, why is it that government > (equally true in Canada as in the US) is so thoroughly and > unambiguously committed to supporting the interests of industry? The > question arises, from many disparate sources, because the process > of promoting industry interests necessarily contravenes, compromises, > and ultimately countervails against the presumptive and still > popularly believed role of government in protecting the interests of > society. You know, "of the people, by the people, for the people" > and that kind of stuff? This transformation also results in the most > transparently outrageous statements from elected officials, as in the > current context of Glickman's speech. Equally imponderably dubious > statements and speeches have been imanating from the lips of Canaidan > officials in recent months - so this is an international affliction. > > The context of the current dialogue is genetic engineering, but I > think it could equally well be biocides, or power-concentrating > agricultural practices in general. Perhaps it is equally true of > other contexts outside of my understanding. > > So, my question to you is "why" and "when"? Why is government so > thoroughly, openly, and indeed, unashamedly abrogating its historical > responsibility for protecting the interests of its citizens? > > 1. Is there some kind of implicit assumption that what is good for > industry must, necessarily, be good for society as well (evidence, > pls)? > > 2. Can it be as simple as campaign contributions/political influence? > This seems implausible in countries with short campaign windows and > correspondingly modest opportunities for explicit corruption, yet > this same phenomenon seems to pertain globally, regardless of the > density of lobbyists per elected official. > > 3. Or do elected officials and industry interests just swim in the > same circles, intermarry and produce fertile offspring, and just > basically interweave quasi-metabolic connections engendering > sympathetic responsiveness when it comes to policymaking? > > 4. Is it just easier for elected officials to keep within the fast- > flowing stream-of-consciousness which originated with > Reagan/Thatcher/Mulrooney, namely, "deregulation and let the buyer > beware", than to stand back and see it for what it is? > > I don't know, which is why I am asking. I'd like to have an answer > for the interviewers who justifiably curious why no one seems to be > minding the shop anymore. > > I also want to know "when". Has it always been this way and I was > just too blind or disinterested to to see, or is this a recent > phenomenon? I await your thoughts. Ann > > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca > Dr. E. Ann Clark > Associate Professor > Crop Science > University of Guelph > Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 > Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 > FAX: 519 763-8933 > http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 18:57:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA27967 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA21360 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:23:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA21353 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7068 invoked from network); 24 Jul 1999 22:23:26 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-05.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.177) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 1999 22:23:26 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990724172837.0097b410@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:21:33 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: government and industry In-Reply-To: <379A3751.3934C3AC@zoo.uvm.edu> References: <93FE160606@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1771 Fred Magdoff weighs in the gov't/industry thread: >the Supreme Court has held that corporations have the same right to first >amendment free speech rights as any person. [...] Combine this with the >control of the media by few corporations, that also have interests in many >other sectors, and it is clear that the corporate effort to get both >government and media off their backs has been a huge >success. That is why there is little else than the "company line" in the >mass media. Where did the Bill Moyers tape come from, Fred? I don't mean this as criticism, but your comment seems a bit unfair. Perhaps the corporate forces have managed to tar and feather the mass media as thoroughly as they have Congress and the federal government. Caveat: This opinion comes from an erstwhile ink-stained wretch, with 20 years in daily newspapering. Disregard as you deem fit. I'd just like to point out that reputable newspapers, journals, and magazines have always covered and routinely continue to cover pork-barrelling, lobbying, agenda-setting, rogues, rascals, sleazeballs, votes-for-sale (and its corollary, science-for-sale), and more. How much the public responds to it is something else. It is only when a tremendous pressure is brought to bear (as with labor strikes during the depression or the early post war period, the civil rights and anti-war movements of the '60s, or the more recent environmental movement) that the political folks will respond to "populist" desires. A good deal of that "tremendous pressure" was a result of journalism, which in turn was a result of committed people out there making news and making the rest of the world sit up and take notice. As long as people are relatively fat and happy, fully employed, enjoying the benefits of the stock market, and don't feel their personal rights are being stomped on overmuch, the mass media's harping on how corporate interests are taking over the world goes pretty much unnoticed. Have you read the coverage or sampled editorial columns on the Microsoft trial? Anybody giving up Windows for Linux? >{Infrequently, sanity actually prevails over economic-political corporate >power. In a recent example from the military-industrial complex, that >Eisenhower warned us about so many years ago, both industry and the Defense >Department are astounded that congress is considering cutting off funding for >an airplane just because it is vastly over budget and doesn't work (what >could those >congressfolks be thinking about?). I could name a bunch of examples where sanity prevailed. Billion-dollar projects to divert rivers, drain the Great Lakes, blast out dam sites with leftover nuclear weapons, and much more that never happened because the scheme couldn't stand the light of press attention and public notice. The press is still paying attention. The public is too busy reading the comics and the sports page to notice. End of rant. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 22:52:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA00820 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA04975 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from main.nrg.com.au (IDENT:root@main.nrg.com.au [203.16.176.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA04953 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fresherb.nrg.com.au (nrgline06.nrg.com.au [203.16.176.206]) by main.nrg.com.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA30493 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:24:59 +0930 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990725121229.00710d70@nrg.com.au> X-Sender: fresherb@nrg.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:12:35 +1000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: David Hine Subject: Off topic - changing from Windows to Linux/Gov't & Industry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1772 Dear All Part of what Sanet is about is being a supportive community for those courageous, strong....(whatever) enough to change. I use Linux and love it. Yes Fred the awareness created by debate in the media has helped, but the fact that I can have an operating system that is better, more stable and only fifteen dollars helps. Then I use Star Office for the usual range of tasks - word processing, spreadsheets, presentations etc. That cost me $50.00 including printed manual. There are solutions out there for a broad range of tasks from agriculture to computing for those not wanting to be beholden to organisations who seem to them to be exploitive. It helps if we all prosper them. David David Hine Atkins Rd. Cawongla via Kyogle NSW 2474 Australia http://nrg.com.au/~fresherb Sustainable Agriculture: Productivity, System Resilience, Maintenance of Natural Assets, and Equity for Producers. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 24 23:48:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01624 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA05166 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:11:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA05049 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA02007 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.207]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA02547 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01bed64d$26a31380$cf7a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: alfalfa Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:24:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1773 Phil Looks like you've hit the Bullseye in my book !!! Go with God, Smitty -----Original Message----- From: Phil Batalden To: Paul Schmitmeyer Date: Saturday, July 24, 1999 6:52 PM Subject: Re: alfalfa > I am looking to sell wheat straw, I don't have any alfalfa to sell. I have >been offered $45/ton for the straw. The buyer wants it baled in large >square bales. That will cost $7/bale, at 3 bales/ton it will cost $21/ton >to bale it. Then I will have to deliver it 75 miles to the buyer. I don't >think $24/ton will justify the labor and trucking and loss of organic >matter. Think better to return it to field. Does that seem like a good >business decision? > Thanks from s.w. Minn > Phil > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From guldann@ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 25 08:16:20 1999 Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA06970 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA09335; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:05:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-228.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.228) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009327; Sun Jul 25 07:05:06 1999 Message-ID: <003b01bed695$64163240$e4f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Cc: Subject: Re: government and industry Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:01:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1774 Since Lawrence brought up Libertarians, of which I am no expert, course I am no expert on demopublicans either, but I digress. In a Libertariian publication I read an article on business or you might say the American Dream. I think about it often when I read this stuff or even Microsoft struggles. In short it said that no business can stay in business if the public does not want what they are selling. Supply and demand you might say, however and this was a HUGE however, the article went on to say except if there is government intervention. I am still with Ann though on the why the government got so involved. I guess you grow up thinking the gov. for the people etc. and that they got involved to "take care" of the people so business didn't trample us, but that does not seem so. It seems like for what ever reason gov. officials choose companies they'd like to make stronger than they actually would be if the general public was making the buying decsions. Its sort of strange really, it does seem we'd be better off with a separation of State and Business. Yikes its compicated. Thanks Beth >Contributions can be wafted abroad from country to country through hidden >channels - this has certainly been in the news in the past - all the more >reason to vote intelligently. For me its demopublicans vs Libertarians . >I'll vote L. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 08:42:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA07451 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA11219 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:44:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA11150 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA08666; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:43:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-228.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.228) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008662; Sun Jul 25 06:43:02 1999 Message-ID: <002401bed692$4eeee180$e4f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Diane Cooner" , , "SANET-mg" Subject: Re: Glickman's biotech speech and killer weeds Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:39:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1775 Diane, I was saying the same thing to one of my CSA members yesterday. That the GM guys make these speeches and then I read this list with studies that seem to prove them wrong. I said to my member those guys lie. Other entities are not aloud to lie, I remember something about the "All Natural" label when it first came out and restrictions being put on it, to be truthful you might say. But these guys lie and no one calls them on it, well it appears they are begining to be called on it. The CBS story and a story I read in the Boston Globe. Thanks BEth >I would refer everyone back to Charles Benbrook's post last week on RR >soybean yield drag. I would like to know how Mr. Glickman figures biotech >is going to feed the hungry world when the mean yields are showing up less >than conventional ones. >A word missing from much of this dialog is "lies". I know it's a fighting >word, but everytime I read these government agent comments, that's the one >word that keeps coming into MY mind! >diane > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 08:42:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA07455 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA09330 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:38:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA09295 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA08478; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:37:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-228.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.228) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008475; Sun Jul 25 06:37:04 1999 Message-ID: <001901bed691$7930dd00$e4f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" , Subject: Re: RE: easier to swallow? Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:33:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1776 Just like Craig I have been trying to get a handle on "GM". What I gather than from your closing statement is that you feel that within species manipulation is no "safer" than genes gathered from another species ie BT corn. Could you elaborate? Also is anyone using all this genetic knowledge to identify certain traits in plants and then go on to selective breed them the "old fashioned" way. Well thanks you folks make me feel very informed, when my CSA members mention something they've read (my question indicates I am no authority ) I feel I can answer them intelligently or at least say you should read........ Thanks Beth -----Original Message----- From: E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Saturday, July 24, 1999 10:58 AM Subject: RE: easier to swallow? >Craig: one source that might be able to clarify these issues is the >RAFI homepage (Rural Advancement Foundation International, I think it >stands for). This is run by Pat Mooney out of Winnipeg, and I >believe this is the group that coined the terms "terminator" and >"traitor". > >I do not doubt that the range of applications you mention is >realistic, and that others can be envisioned. > >What I am increasingly aware of, however, is that "no gene is an >island", and that the perception of genes as discrete entities is >really a misnomer. Genes act in concert with other genes, and more >than that, the physical placement of genes within and among >chromosomes moderates expression of the individual genes. Mae Wan >Ho's book on Genetic Engineering: Dream or Nightmare, covers this >authoritatively and readably. > >So, whether inserting a wholly novel gene or simply enhancing or >silencing existing genes, the fundamental issues of gene-to-gene >interaction (to say nothing of gene x environment interactions) >remain the same. Ann >ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca >Dr. E. Ann Clark >Associate Professor >Crop Science >University of Guelph >Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 >Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 >FAX: 519 763-8933 >http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 08:45:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA07480 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:45:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA18686 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:51:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA18511 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0018.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.18]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06621; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 04:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379A4FAA.F9722917@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 16:43:38 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net CC: SANET-mg , organic gardening discussion list Subject: Re: It's Raining pesticides References: <37994F4B.77BBF8B3@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1777 I'd like to remind people that one big cause of cancer is the heating of fats to rancidity, as rancidity causes cancer. Practically any recipe for cooked meal dish that you read starts with" slice onions and heat in oil". Check any recipe book It seems impossible for people to make meals without heating fats, and I made a special effort in the Organic Method Primer UPDATE to point out that rancidity causes cancer, and to explain that 3 things make fats/oils rancid: HEAT, LIGHT, AIR. I know people just can't bear to give up the taste of heated fats/onions to which they have become so accustomed, but THINK : EVERY OTHER AMERICAN NOW GETS CANCER. Bunny Snow wrote: > I know that no one here uses herbicides or other pesticides on this > list, but I thought this may be of interest to those of you who want to > see the world with your eyes wide opened. > > I wonder if this could be a reason why certain cancers are increasing in > certain areas of the U.S. more than other areas. I wonder if those > areas where the increases are occurring are receiving their drinking > water from surface waters or shallow aquifers, which may be more likely > to be contaminated with weed killers. Example, studies on laboratory > animals show an increase of breast tumors with the hormone disrupting > herbicide atrazine. Atrazine is widely used in the U.S. and some areas > of the country, such as Burlington, Vermont drinking water comes from > Lake Champlain. Could that be the reason breast cancer is so high > there? I realize that atrazine is also found in groundwater when that > water is tested for contamination. > > I urge you to read the full article at the URL listed below. > > ~Bunny Snow > _____________________________________________________________________________ > > http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19990403/newsstory12.html > [Archive: 3 April 1999] > The New Scientist > > It's raining pesticides > > Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie > > **RAIN IS NOT what it used to be. A new study reveals that much of the > precipitation in Europe contains such high levels of dissolved > pesticides that it would be illegal to supply it as drinking water. > > Studies in Switzerland have found that rain is laced with toxic levels > of atrazine, alachlor and > other commonly used crop sprays. "Drinking water standards are regularly > exceeded in rain," says Stephan Mller, a chemist at the Swiss Federal > Institute for Environmental Science and Technology in Dbendorf. The > chemicals appear to have evaporated from fields and become part of the > clouds. > > Both the European Union and Switzerland have set a limit of 100 > nanograms for any particular pesticide in a litre of drinking water. > But, especially in the first minutes of a heavy storm, rain can contain > much more than that. > > In a study to be published by Mller and his colleague Thomas Bucheli in > Analytical Chemistry this summer, one sample of rainwater contained > almost 4000 nanograms per litre of 2,4-dinitrophenol, a widely used > pesticide. Previously, the authors had shown that in rain samples taken > from 41 storms, nine contained more than 100 nanograms of atrazine per > litre, one of them around 900 nanograms... > > Mller warns that the growing practice of using rainwater that falls > onto roofs to recharge underground water may be adding to the danger. > This water often contains dissolved herbicides that had been added to > roofing materials, such as bitumen sheets, to prevent vegetation > growing. He suggests that the first flush of rains should be diverted > into sewers to minimise the pollution of drinking water, > which is not usually treated to remove these herbicides and pesticides. > > Meanwhile, Swedish researchers have linked pesticides to one of the most > rapidly increasing cancers in the Western world. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, > which has risen by 73 per cent in the US since 1973, is probably caused > by several commonly used crop sprays, say the scientists...** > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 09:02:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07603 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 09:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA27032 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:07:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA26976 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA09335; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 07:05:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-228.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.228) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009327; Sun Jul 25 07:05:06 1999 Message-ID: <003b01bed695$64163240$e4f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Cc: Subject: Re: government and industry Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:01:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1778 Since Lawrence brought up Libertarians, of which I am no expert, course I am no expert on demopublicans either, but I digress. In a Libertariian publication I read an article on business or you might say the American Dream. I think about it often when I read this stuff or even Microsoft struggles. In short it said that no business can stay in business if the public does not want what they are selling. Supply and demand you might say, however and this was a HUGE however, the article went on to say except if there is government intervention. I am still with Ann though on the why the government got so involved. I guess you grow up thinking the gov. for the people etc. and that they got involved to "take care" of the people so business didn't trample us, but that does not seem so. It seems like for what ever reason gov. officials choose companies they'd like to make stronger than they actually would be if the general public was making the buying decsions. Its sort of strange really, it does seem we'd be better off with a separation of State and Business. Yikes its compicated. Thanks Beth >Contributions can be wafted abroad from country to country through hidden >channels - this has certainly been in the news in the past - all the more >reason to vote intelligently. For me its demopublicans vs Libertarians . >I'll vote L. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 09:29:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07784 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 09:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA10578 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:33:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mx03.together.net (mx05.together.net [204.97.120.65]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10574 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zoo.uvm.edu (dial-300-btvt.udial.together.net [209.91.1.240]) by mx03.together.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26673; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <379B11FE.4E710154@zoo.uvm.edu> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 08:32:49 -0500 From: Fred Magdoff Reply-To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cass Peterson CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: government and industry References: <93FE160606@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> <4.2.0.58.19990724172837.0097b410@nb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1779 Cass, Of course there are a few stories in the press or on TV which attempt to cover the "rascals" and what they do. And, after all it was the media (Public Broadcasting) that "allowed" Moyer's program to be shown. If you haven't seen it, you really should. It has some very interesting footage, including interesting stuff from republican Senator McCain (is that how it's spelled?), who is quite concerned about the issue. A couple of examples from the tape--- Where was the media when the owners convinced their friends in congress to give them $70 billion (the digital spectrum)? Why wasn't it all over TV again and again? Where was the media when Hightower was taken off the ABC network after criticizing the Disney takeover of ABC? Where was the media--which was making lots of money from the attack adds--when the republican state legislator from NC was being villified and her political career cut short because she put her constituents interests above that of the industrial hog corporations? Why didn't the media show that all these adds were a bunch of nonsense? Is that the way democracy should be played out? It is not an issue of condeming congress or the media. I think that the main point is that it is impossible to have a true democracy when monied interests can usually control not only what is said about things, but the agenda as well. My guess is that after seeing Free Speech for Sale, you will have a somewhat different perspective on the US democracy. FRED Cass Peterson wrote: > Fred Magdoff weighs in the gov't/industry thread: > > >the Supreme Court has held that corporations have the same right to first > >amendment free speech rights as any person. [...] Combine this with the > >control of the media by few corporations, that also have interests in many > >other sectors, and it is clear that the corporate effort to get both > >government and media off their backs has been a huge > >success. That is why there is little else than the "company line" in the > >mass media. > > Where did the Bill Moyers tape come from, Fred? I don't mean this as > criticism, but your comment seems a bit unfair. Perhaps the corporate > forces have managed to tar and feather the mass media as thoroughly as they > have Congress and the federal government. > > Caveat: This opinion comes from an erstwhile ink-stained wretch, with 20 > years in daily newspapering. Disregard as you deem fit. I'd just like to > point out that reputable newspapers, journals, and magazines have always > covered and routinely continue to cover pork-barrelling, lobbying, > agenda-setting, rogues, rascals, sleazeballs, votes-for-sale (and its > corollary, science-for-sale), and more. How much the public responds to it > is something else. > > It is only when a tremendous pressure > is brought to bear (as with labor strikes during the depression or the early > post war period, the civil rights and anti-war movements of the '60s, or the > more recent environmental movement) that the political folks will respond to > "populist" desires. > > A good deal of that "tremendous pressure" was a result of journalism, which > in turn was a result of committed people out there making news and making > the rest of the world sit up and take notice. As long as people are > relatively fat and happy, fully employed, enjoying the benefits of the > stock market, and don't feel their personal rights are being stomped on > overmuch, the mass media's harping on how corporate interests are taking > over the world goes pretty much unnoticed. Have you read the coverage or > sampled editorial columns on the Microsoft trial? Anybody giving up Windows > for Linux? > > >{Infrequently, sanity actually prevails over economic-political corporate > >power. In a recent example from the military-industrial complex, that > >Eisenhower warned us about so many years ago, both industry and the Defense > >Department are astounded that congress is considering cutting off funding for > >an airplane just because it is vastly over budget and doesn't work (what > >could those > >congressfolks be thinking about?). > > I could name a bunch of examples where sanity prevailed. Billion-dollar > projects to divert rivers, drain the Great Lakes, blast out dam sites with > leftover nuclear weapons, and much more that never happened because the > scheme couldn't stand the light of press attention and public notice. The > press is still paying attention. The public is too busy reading the comics > and the sports page to notice. > > End of rant. > > Cass Peterson > cpete@nb.net > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 11:33:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA08961 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19960 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:24:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19864 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA09255 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 25 Jul 99 10:21:28 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 25 Jul 99 10:21:27 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:21:27 EST Subject: Re: GE primer (was: easier to swallow?) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <159917AC6@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1780 Beth: yes, I'm increasingly convinced that it really is the process, and not the product, that is suspect. Understand that I am no expert on this, my field is pasture and grazing management, so I am repeating what I've been told or have read. The issue is the presumption (some might say arrogance or even ignorance) that genes can be identified as having causal influences on some trait, such that they can be snipped out, zipped in, and presto-chango, no more problems with pest X or disease Y (or, for that matter, diabetes, overly tall or fat people, retarded people, or otherwise objectionable people). Ah, what a world. What power. What delicious arrogance. The author of The Prince must be proud. The reality, which I think will become increasingly "real" as our friends at "M" actually try to commercialize multi-genic trait products, is that genes interact. I mean, "really" interact, and often in ways that are unintended and unpredictable. The very notion of an independent "snip-zip-able" gene is actually a product of faulty, outdated science - yet this notion is the foundation of commercial GE today. Our pals in the life science companies (another misnomer) have gotten away with it so far because they are working with single gene traits, and often, genes which already exist in a given species. So, what is being inserted is another copy of the same gene but with very slight changes in it - so the plant can sometimes be "fooled" into letting it be. Understand that plant cells have fantastically elaborate processes for constantly inspecting chromosome integrity, ever alert to detecting abnormalities and either excising them or silencing them. See Mae Wan Ho's very readable book Genetic Engineering: Dream or Nightmare for a much more authoritative take on this. Understand also that "order matters" - that is to say, the particular place that a given transgene lands on a given chromosome influences its expression. And both of the methods used by GE breeders to insert transgenes are entirely random. They have no way (yet) of ensuring that the transgene(s) goes into a particular chromosome, let alone, at a particular insertion point. So, they just make zillions of attempts, and then expend enormous effort to screen out the maladapted individuals from the cases where genes have successfully inserted. But the point is, what will happen when the introduced genes are interacting not just "one-on-many" but "several-on-many"? The potential for unintended side effects will be massively increased, given that it is the interactions that determine the product - not a single gene. And be clear, that the above phenomenon pertains whether the transgenes come from within or without the host species. Case in point is the Arabidopsis example discussed earlier on this list. Find a naturally occurring mutation (in Arabidopsis) which confers herbicide resistance (chlorosulfuron, I think), pull it out and make it into a transgene, and then blast it back into other individuals (non mutant) of the same species. What happens? Transformed individuals express not just chlorosulfuron resistance, but are also changed from selfing to outcrossing species. In its natural state, Arabidopsis has 0.3% outcrossing. In transformed individuals, outcrossing increases to a range of degrees (up to 10%, if memory serves), depending on "where" in the chromosomes the transgenes insert. And this is all in the same species. So, I am increasingly convinced that it is the process that is dysfunctional and indefensible - not just the products (the latter is the industry position). Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 12:24:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA09770 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA24626 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:26:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pear.epix.net (grape.epix.net [199.224.64.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA24572 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (wlbo-202ppp39.epix.net [205.238.202.39]) by pear.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999052801/PL) with SMTP id LAA01064; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <379B2C02.6B0A@epix.net> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:23:46 -0400 From: Jim Weaver Organization: GCES X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: government and industry References: <93FE160606@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1781 Ann & Others, In February at the PASA Conference William McDonough touched on this phenomenon of government and industry. He refered to the work of Jane Jacobs and a book she wrote called "Systems for Survival". I was intrigued by this concept so got a copy. It's an interesting dialog on the moral foundations of commerce and politics. In it (and during McDonough's keynote speech) the concept of two moral syndromes, one for individuals and business, the other for government and political leaders. Commercial Moral Syndrome Shun force Come to voluntary agreements Be honest Collaborate easily with strangers and aliens Compete Respect contracts Use initiative and enterprise Be open to inventiness and novelty Be efficient Promote comfort and convenience Dissent for the sake of the task Invest for productive purposes Be industrious Be thrifty Be optimistic Guardian Moral Syndrome Shun trading Exert prowess Be obedient and disciplined Adhere to tradition Respect hierarchy Be loyal Take vengenance Deceive for the sake of the task Make rich use of leisure Be ostentatious Dispense largesse Be exclusive Show fortitude Be fatalistic Treasure honor These syndromes have evolved over time and Jacobs developes the ideas and concepts in her book. The most germane to the discussion here is the "monstrous hybrid"-anytime you mix the two syndromes. The mafia is the classic example. The U.S. government, especially appointed officials is becoming another. As you read the two you will get little tingles of where we have hybridized the two. I don't have answers to your "why?" and "when?" I offer these syndromes and concepts for further discussion. Sincerely, Jim Weaver Northern Penn Holistic Management Network RD#6 Box 205 Wellsboro, PA 16901 570-724-7788 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 14:28:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA11543 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA05975 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:23:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA05914 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA13094 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 25 Jul 99 13:20:01 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 25 Jul 99 13:19:37 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:19:36 EST Subject: Re: killer weeds References: In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <451C55D6C@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1782 Folks: "killer weeds" - is this not Striga? I seem to recall hearing reference to how GE was somehow going to do away with Striga, which is indeed a real curse in Africa. It is one of several parasitic plants, which live off of other plants, and have a special liking for certain key crop plants. The seed of Striga has evolved a really clever scheme for germinating in response to certain chemicals given off by only the germinating seed of target host plants (not others). Then, it has I think 4 days in which to grow out and contact the host roots for invasion, or else it dies. So, the seed can stay dormant for a long time, waiting for the crop to return, and when it does - whammo. I think I have the story right, but what I'm unclear on is how GE is going to kill the killer weed, particularly on the land of subsistence farmers who don't purchase seed or other inputs anyway. Perhaps someone can inform me? Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 18:29:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15154 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08296 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:38:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08286 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ztm51-35.Zoetermeer.NL.net by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via ztm51-35.Zoetermeer.NL.net [195.108.245.200] with SMTP for id XAA01986 (8.8.8/1.19); Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:37:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199907252137.XAA01986@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> From: "Frits v/d Laan" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:28:05 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: PANUPS Reply-to: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net In-reply-to: <199907241708.NAA09317@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1783 PAN. I have asked this question before because I would like to know more about the amounts of pesticides used in stead of there total amounts in dollars. How many pesticides is a dollar or is the total figure higher because prices got higher, For me there is nothing to compare these figures with. Sorry to be critical Frits v/d Laan Netherlands >========================================== > P A N U P S > Pesticide Action Network Updates Service > Several sources estimated the world agrochemical market at > approximately US$31 billion in 1998. This represents less than > 0.2% growth over 1997 sales, after figuring in currency and > inflation factors. Sales of genetically engineered seed, however, > increased by 145% over 1997 figures to US$1.6 billion. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 18:38:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15247 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA16462 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:49:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA16457 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3Z7H25TK>; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:41:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" Subject: RE: killer weeds Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:41:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1784 i'm not sure that it's useful to speculate about what secretary glickman meant by a comment in a speech; i suspect a question to the public relations people at usda would be more efficacious but as long as we find ourselves in this discussion, one way that ge could kill the killer weed on the lands of people who do not purchase seed inputs is by the release of weed predators, probably insects or nematodes, but perhaps diseases . . . for example one could bioengineer a nematode that secretes the same chemicals as a germinating target seed, and broadcast the nematodes in some form by aerial distribution . . . cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: E. Ann Clark, Associate > Professor[SMTP:aclark@plant.uoguelph.ca] > Sent: Sunday 25 July 1999 2:19 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: killer weeds > > Folks: "killer weeds" - is this not Striga? I seem to recall hearing > reference to how GE was somehow going to do away with Striga, which is > indeed a real curse in Africa. It is one of several parasitic plants, > which live off of other plants, and have a special > liking for certain key crop plants. The seed of Striga has evolved a > really clever scheme for germinating in response to certain chemicals > given off by only the germinating seed of target host plants (not others). > Then, it has I think 4 days in which to grow out and contact the host > roots for invasion, or else it dies. So, the seed can stay dormant for a > long time, waiting for the crop to return, and when it does - whammo. > I think I have the story right, but what I'm unclear on is how GE is going > to kill the killer weed, particularly on the land of subsistence farmers > who don't purchase seed or other inputs anyway. > Perhaps someone can inform me? Ann > > ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca > Dr. E. Ann Clark > Associate Professor > Crop Science > University of Guelph > Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 > Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 > FAX: 519 763-8933 > http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 18:39:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA15320 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:39:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA26396 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:05:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA26389 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3Z7H25TW>; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:59:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net'" Subject: RE: PANUPS Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:59:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1785 frits, this may be more trouble than it is worth, but the mann library at cornell university has various pesticide use reports for the past ten years or so . . . they are not organized by pesticide use, so you have to look for them a little bit . . . the initial url is: http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/ cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Frits v/d Laan[SMTP:F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net] > Reply To: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net > Sent: Sunday 25 July 1999 7:28 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: PANUPS > > PAN. > I have asked this question before because > I would like to know more about the amounts of pesticides used in > stead of there total amounts in dollars. > How many pesticides is a dollar or is the total figure higher because > prices got higher, For me there is nothing to compare these figures > with. > Sorry to be critical > Frits v/d Laan > Netherlands > > >========================================== > > P A N U P S > > Pesticide Action Network Updates Service > > Several sources estimated the world agrochemical market at > > approximately US$31 billion in 1998. This represents less than > > 0.2% growth over 1997 sales, after figuring in currency and > > inflation factors. Sales of genetically engineered seed, however, > > increased by 145% over 1997 figures to US$1.6 billion. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Jul 25 21:51:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA17031 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA19953 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:16:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA19939 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA22889 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 25 Jul 99 21:13:19 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 25 Jul 99 21:12:55 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:12:53 EST Subject: killer weed X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1786 Dave B. - you sent a response which I think indicated that the proposed GE solution to Striga was herbicide-resistant sorghum. Do I have that right? Now there is a really very VERY bad idea - but I suspect even the GE people won't touch that one. While sorghum is a key crop in parts of Africa, it also freely hybridizes with wild species, one of which - Johnsongrass - is among the ten worst weeds in the world. I think it was Norm Ellstrand (and others) who has documented the ease with which genes move among the various species. It was suggested some time ago that sorghum NOT be subjected to GE specifically because of the likelihood of genes, including herbicide-resistance genes, moving directly into serious weeds, making them virtually unstoppable. If I've got all this right, then what in the world was Glickman thinking of? Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 02:25:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA20274 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA23878 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:36:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA23826 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.7] (ppp-206-170-1-7.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.7]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08860; Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:35:02 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: vCJD/BSE prion strain--Lancet Cc: mister3d@third-dimension.com, rjcooney@facstaff.wisc.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1787 Howdy, all-- This item appeared in /The Lancet/ on Sat. and was passed along to me by John Stauber of PRWatch. http://www.prwatch.org Thought it might interest you prion-watchers and observers of evolutionary biology. Will be interesting to see what kind of response this item gets in /Lancet/ from other readers. The item that follows it, from the /Electronic Telegraph/, offers context on the /Lancet/ piece. I keep thinking of Bill Cosby's line, from a stand-up routine in the 60s, about certain delicacies in Philly, including scrambled calves' brains: "Nuh uh. I never eat anything that somebody else used to think with." peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VARIANT CREUTZFELDT-JAKOB DISEASE July 24, 1999 Lancet 1999; 354: 317-23 John Collinge MRC Prion Unit and Department of Neurogenetics, Imperial College School of Medicine at St Mary's, London, UK, and Department of Neurology, St Mary's Hospital, London (Prof J Collinge FRCP) It is clear that the prion strain causing bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle has infected human beings, manifesting itself as a novel human prion disease, variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CjD). Studies of the incubation periods seen in previous epidemics of human prion disease and of the effect of transmission barriers limiting spread of these diseases between species, suggest that the early variant CJD cases may have been exposed during the preclinical phase of the BSE epidemic. It must therefore be considered that many cases may follow from later exposure in an epidemic that would be expected to evolve over decades. Since the number of people currently incubating this disease is unknown, there are concerns that prions might be transmitted iatrogenically via blood transfusion, tissue donation, and, since prions resist routine sterilisation, contamination of surgical instruments. Such risks remain unquantified. Although variant CJD can be diagnosed during life by tonsil biopsy, a prion-specific blood test is needed to assess and manage this potential threat to public health. The theoretical possibility that BSE prions might have transferred to other species and continue to present a risk to human health cannot be excluded at present. WARNING OF MAJOR CJD EPIDEMIC July 23, 1999 The Electronic Telegraph ISSUE 1519 Roger Highfield, Science Editor Prof John Collinge of St Mary's Hospital, London, a member of the Government's Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee, was cited as writing in the Lancet Friday that a major epidemic of new variant CJD remains a strong possibility. He greets the recent optimism that the human BSE epidemic may be levelling out with caution, given that it has been only three years since new variant CJD was recognised. Prof Collinge is pessimistic because he estimates the incubation time for the disease - the time between infection with BSE and the development of the devastating brain disease CJD - is probably a matter of decades rather than years. Studies of related spongiform diseases, such as kuru, suggest incubation periods of up to 40 years. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 04:03:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA21024 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 04:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA24427 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 03:17:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA24376 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 03:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.83]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:21:37 -0500 Message-ID: <379C0BE4.1044C6CE@cillnet.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 02:19:00 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: grant ideas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1788 Hi I am looking for ideas of places to apply for grants for starting a farmer's wives' support group in central Illinois. I would appreciate any and all help. Thanks Tammy To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 10:48:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25550 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA21264 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:40:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21226 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:39:58 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@PCSIA.COM Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09528 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:43:22 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:39:42 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.76] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0860173c ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:39:24 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990726083301.00830dd0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:33:01 -0500 To: Subject: vCJD/BSE prion strain--Lancet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1789 >Subject: vCJD/BSE prion strain--Lancet >Prof Collinge is pessimistic because he estimates the incubation time for >the disease - the time between infection with BSE and the development of >the devastating brain disease CJD - is probably a matter of decades rather >than years. Studies of related spongiform diseases, such as kuru, suggest >incubation periods of up to 40 years. Look at the bright side of this opportunity, next time GM or somebody wants to off a bunch of worker who are over 40 or 50, they won't have to do it themselves, the agricultural system will have done it for them. Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 10:48:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25549 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:48:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA21094 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:38:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21090 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA28099; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:38:16 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma026764; Mon, 26 Jul 99 08:37:18 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:37:18 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE47@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" Subject: RE: GE primer (was: easier to swallow?) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:37:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1790 Ann, > The issue is the presumption (some might say arrogance or even > ignorance) that genes can be identified as having causal > influences on some trait, such that they can be snipped out, > zipped in, and presto-chango, no more problems with pest X or > disease Y (or, for that matter, diabetes, overly tall or fat... There are a lot of problems and opportunities in the world. A few can indeed be realized by introduction of a single protein into a bacteria, plant or animal species. The biotech industry has cherry-picked those problems amenable to a monogenic approach. Setting aside supposed unintended consequences (I love to argue about this, but not now), the industry has been successful. > The reality, which I think will become increasingly "real" as > our friends at "M" actually try to commercialize multi-genic > trait products, is that genes interact. I mean, "really" > interact, and often in ways that are unintended and unpredictable. The industry has been dealing with this for some time. It is just not visible to the public. For example, many Bt events interact unfavorably with genetic backgrounds. Most constructs and transformed lines never see the light of day. It is the same situation as traditional breeding, a big crap shoot. That is why size is such an asset. > The very notion of an independent "snip-zip-able" gene is > actually a product of faulty, outdated science - yet this > notion is the foundation of commercial GE today. You are attacking the self-promoted image of biotech, not the lab-bench reality. Right now, the most important use for the new technology lies in mapping the genome. > Our pals in the life science companies (another misnomer) have > gotten away with it so far because they are working with single > gene traits, and often, genes which already exist in a given > species. I beg to differ. The industry that you so villify is really the plant breeding industry. Our stock and trade is MAINLY complex polygenic traits. The initial splash into genetically enhanced products was made with transgenic technology, because these strategies are more logically monogenic, simple, and predictable. But the future of breeding lies in understanding the biology and developing more efficient ways to manipulate the endogenous genetics of crop plants than the big crap-shoot approach of traditional breeding. Even in corn, that has been so thoroughly worked, you can bet the full value of the species has not been realized. Corn has somewhere around 60,000 genes, and producing a line is like dealing out a hand of 60,000 cards. If there were only four alleles at each of these loci, that would mean that around 4 to the 60,000 power different genetic combinations are possible (don't try this on your calculator). Understanding the biology will allow rational design for specific purposes (besides simply yield) rather than the shotgun crossing-selfing-testcross approach that occupies most of our time. > They have no way (yet) of ensuring that the transgene(s) goes > into a particular chromosome, let alone, at a particular > insertion point. Oh, there are ways. They don't work very well yet, but in a few years you will be seeing targeted insertion products. > So, I am increasingly convinced that it is the process that is > dysfunctional and indefensible - not just the products (the latter is > the industry position). You know, at a place I used to work the farm manager was a nay-sayer. We (the faculty) would come to him with clever experimental designs and new ways to collect data. He would always find a reason why things couldn't work (and in his hands, they usually didn't). This guy retired and we got a new farm manager, and he made the ideas work. That is the kind of attitude I find at Pioneer. This list is filled with negative people, apparently worshipping the coming apocalypse. Yes, I am scared to death of the population explosion, and worried about the future. But I like to work on solutions, and applied biology is my thing (not GE per se). I think you will see a lot of good things come from GE methods. We are at the very beginning of this technology. It is like the transistor in 1960. I agree, GE is frightening. But you think the "process" is flawed. I want to discuss that with you. Could you define what you mean by "process"? Do you mean GE methods per se, the approach of modern biologists in general, or the progressivist enlightnment project? Dale Wilson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 11:02:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25862 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA01765 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:57:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f94.hotmail.com [207.82.250.200]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA01748 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 70272 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jul 1999 13:56:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19990726135652.70271.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:56:51 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.50] From: "J. S." To: ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: government and industry Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:56:51 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1791 I think probably the reason that noone is minding the shop is that we are all here venting to each other and not out there working to change the system. I have absolutely no intentions of being derisive or otherwise critical..but I have noticed a lot of postings lately asking about how did things get this way and how do big companies and regulators get away with outrages and the answer really is pretty simple--we let them. Implicitly yes, but we allow them. Glickman is a politician, he is not a farmer and he is not a scientist, his is a role of mediation and diplomacy and of course he is going to say that he believes our system of food security is safe, can you imagine the panic that would happen if he openly declared that the usda and fda are allowing the food industry to poison us? Change never comes quickly. One has to be patient and persistent and most of all active. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 11:02:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25868 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA03019 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:01:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA02919 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990726140125.12609.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:01:25 EDT Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:01:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Fwd: Personal account of 7/18 action in UK To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1792 forward for your information. the fire for change burns hot in Europe. kate > Subject: Personal account of 7/18 action in UK > > From: Genetic Engineering Network office > (by > way of genetics ) > > Excellent personal account from Keith Parkins re: > Watlington > > Stop the Crop National Rally - 18 July 1999 > > Coaches from around the country headed for the rally. As > the site was > approached, Police road blocks were encountered. > Ironically, the only people > the Police were letting through were the protesters and > the media (who were > out > in force). Already on site were TV crews with their > satellite dishes. > The site could not have been better located, a field on > top of a hill, > opposite > the GM crop. A farm trailer had been converted into an > impromptu sound stage. > Food, drink, and a herbal medical centre were available > on site > During the afternoon, the protesters were entertained by > speeches and music. > The speakers included Alan Simpson MP (Labour Member for > Nottingham), food > writer Lynda Brown (local resident), and environmental > writer and journalist > George Monbiot. Alan Simpson told the crowd how it was > only mass civil > disobedience that changed anything, gave an insight into > the power of global > corporations and the undue influence they were having on > government; Lynda > Brown told how this was the only issue food writers had > ever felt sufficiently > concerned about to campaign on, that it was a gut > reaction that something was > rotten, GM was not needed and was doing nothing to > improve the quality of > food; > George Monbiot launched a scathing attack on the flawed > basis of the > experiment > that was going on across the road and the global > corporations who were > engaging > in exploitation and neo-colonialism. > During the afternoon, protesters were handed out a > leaflet, detailing the > agenda, and a map of the site. On the back was legal > advice in case of any > problems with the Police. > After the speeches, everyone was to leave the rally site, > line up in two > columns, then in a clockwise and anticlockwise direction, > walk around the test > site using lanes and public footpaths. The protesters had > only got a short > distance along the road in either direction, when > individually and > spontaneously, they all headed straight to the test site > and started wandering > across the field. Of the 500 protesters attending the > rally, virtually all > those present, clad in white biohazard suits and wearing > face masks (a > necessary precaution against pollen and the sprays that > had been used on the > field), all walking across the field to the sound of Pink > Floyd. Standing on > the sound stage it was an amazing sight to watch. > The small handful of Police standing in the road (far > fewer than at the picnic > two weeks previous) were outflanked. There was little > they could do, other > than > radio for help, and watch, trying very hard, and not very > successfully, not to > laugh. The Police too, than went into the test field, > though not to accost the > protesters but to seek shelter under the trees from the > hot sun. > It didn't take long for Police reinforcements to arrive. > A Police helicopter > arrived on the scene and then hovered around for about an > hour filming the > action below. > A long time later, maybe an hour, Police reinforcements > started to arrive en > masse, but still heavily outnumbered by protesters. A > small posse of Police > then headed into the crops, trampling down more crops > than the protesters. > Most of the protesters had by this time left the test > site to visit the > Alternative > Model Farm. > A hard core of protesters were left in the field. With a > large number of > Police assembled, the press reported 80, the mood started > to turn ugly. Up > until then > there had been a good rapport between the Police and the > protesters. The new > arrivals were psyching themselves up for action, the body > language was > different, and they were clearly out looking for trouble. > It looked like the Police may be considering going into > the field and rounding > up the hard core, but they were pre-empted by the > protesters waltzing back out > of the field. The Police ran up the road to block them > off, and physically > blocked off the road by weight of numbers. By this time > the cavalry had > arrived, a couple of Police motor cyclists, and Police on > horseback. > The Police opened up the road block, and, to the cheer of > all the onlookers, > the protesters peacefully walked down the road, arm in > arm heading towards the > rally site.[At this point all those without suits were > being protected by > those > in suits and everyone was singing "We'll meet again" - it > was an amazing > moment.] As the field gate was approached, a handful of > Police officers > launched a brutal attack on two or three of the > protesters. There was no > provocation, the protesters were peacefully walking down > the road, there had > been no calling of insults or taunting of the Police, it > was Police brutality > pure and simple. Those involved simply layed into > protesters, they were > nothing better than thugs in uniform. One girl was > grabbed by the hair, and > had > her > hair pulled out by the roots, another protester was > wrestled to the ground, > down the side of a Police motorcycle, Police fists > flying, another protester > was wrestled to the ground, sat on by a fat overweight > officer, then dragged > along the road a short distance, face down. Several > officers were involved in > violent assaults on individual demonstrators. Whether > this was action under > orders, if so whose orders, is not clear. It looked as > though the officers had > it in for those targeted, and the attacks were personal, > rather than randomly > picked on protesters. Other protesters were then pushed, > jostled and herded > towards the Police horses. It was sheer luck that no one > fell under the horses > hoofs and was seriously injured. The officers on > horseback appeared to be > losing control with the horses prancing all over the > place. A tense several > minutes ensured whilst the protesters retreated back into > the field. The gate > was shut to prevent Police getting into the field and the > Police in turned > blocked the gate to stop protesters leaving. If it hadn't > been for the > protesters keeping their cool and maintaining control > over the situation, > something the Police seemed incapable of due to the > action of a few rogue > officers, a nasty situation could have turned very nasty > and spiralled out of > control. A few of those present with more sense than the > Police went round > asking everyone to stay calm and not be provoked by the > Police. > The Chief Constable of Thames Valley Police should launch > an immediate > investigation into the failure of his officers to > exercise crowd control (in > fact no crowd control was necessary), and to root out > those officers who were > involved in violence and kick them out of the force, as > there can be no place > for thugs in uniform if the public is to have any > confidence in the force. If > these officers can engage in violent assaults in broad > daylight, before many > witnesses, it begs the question as to what they get up to > when out of sight. > The Police Complaints Authority should launch an > immediate investigation. > What had been a peaceful, enjoyable and successful day, > was marred by uncalled > for Police violence and brutality. Those who witnessed > the event, were shocked > by what they saw. Those who had been on past peaceful > protests said past > experience had taught them what to expect and this was > nothing new. It cannot > even be claimed that the Police panicked as they were not > under any threat. > Someone, whether the individuals involved, or orders from > above, took a > decision to attack peaceful protesters. > Genetic Engineering Network, has asked that anyone who > was an eye witness to > the Police violence or to anyone being arrested with > excessive and > unreasonable > force to contact their London office immediately. > Any photos or video recording of the event would be very > welcome. > Genetic Engineering Network - tel 0181 374 9516 e-mail > both > and > > [WORD OF CAUTION from GEN -Any named protesters could be > accused of engaging > in criminal damage. But who are the criminals, the > protesters who have tried > to stop a major biohazard, or Lord Macclesfield and a > biotech company in > collusion with the British government who are > deliberately contaminating the > countryside with a biohazard? > As the coaches left, the protesters smiled and waved to > the security men > lounging on a landrover, the security men smiled and > waved back. Throughout > the day, security men and protesters stayed on friendly > terms. [Some of them > even cut through the barbed wire fence on the meeting > site so that people > could get away from the police violence]. The security > men showed a great > deal more > professionalism than the so-called professionals > (excluding the officers who > were there at the beginning who caused no problems). > The occupation of the test site by several hundred > protesters was one of the > largest acts of civil disobedience seen in the country. > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 11:07:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA25958 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04956 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:07:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04932 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09786 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990726101436.007bea30@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:14:36 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: heating cooking oil causes cancer In-Reply-To: <199907251530.LAA27290@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1793 I find it very difficult to believe that heating cooking oil causes cancer. Let's see some hard data please, not some blanket statements about rancidity. People have been heating cooking oil since the discovery of, well, fire and cooking oil. But cancer rates have only dramatically increased in the last century or so. Don't you think the vast explosion in industrial chemicals, hormones, pollution and other man (and woman) made nasties have more to do with cancer than sauteeing a few onions in some olive oil? Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 11:11:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26113 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04185 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f114.hotmail.com [207.82.251.42]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04158 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27204 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jul 1999 14:04:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990726140439.27203.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:04:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.50] From: "J. S." To: guldann@ix.netcom.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: RE: easier to swallow? Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:04:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1794 > Also is anyone using all this genetic knowledge >to identify certain traits in plants and then go on to selective breed them >the "old fashioned" way. Yes, many many people are. Plant breeders do use genetic knowldege int he form of doing some genetic mapping and finding a molecular marker so that they canuse that marker in something called marker assisted selection, it is a very common practice _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 11:13:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26170 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05798 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:08:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05761 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA18283; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 26 Jul 99 10:05:59 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 26 Jul 99 10:05:57 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "Wilson, Dale" Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:05:57 EST Subject: RE: GE primer (was: easier to swallow?) CC: "'E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor'" In-reply-to: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE47@vela.phibred.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <1918145B4A@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1795 Dale: I said: > > The reality, which I think will become increasingly "real" as > > our friends at "M" actually try to commercialize multi-genic > > trait products, is that genes interact. I mean, "really" > > interact, and often in ways that are unintended and unpredictable. To which, you said: > > The industry has been dealing with this for some time. It is just not > visible to the public. For example, many Bt events interact unfavorably > with genetic backgrounds. Most constructs and transformed lines never see > the light of day. It is the same situation as traditional breeding, a big > crap shoot. That is why size is such an asset. I am well aware that the industry has been dealing with it, because I actively seek out and discuss this with my colleagues. But as you note elsewhere, most people don't know this because the industry likes to take upon itself words like "precise" and "efficient" - which it isn't. > I said: > > Our pals in the life science companies (another misnomer) have > > gotten away with it so far because they are working with single > > gene traits, and often, genes which already exist in a given > > species. Then you said: > > I beg to differ. The industry that you so villify is really the plant > breeding industry. Our stock and trade is MAINLY complex polygenic traits. > The initial splash into genetically enhanced products was made with > transgenic technology, because these strategies are more logically > monogenic, simple, and predictable. > Need to be clearer - who do you mean by "our"? Plant breeders or gene jockeys? Most plant breeders that I know of work largely in multi-genic traits, achieving human-useful targets using natural selection - without contravening natural processes. It is the gene jockeys (life science company cash cow type ventures) that have depended so prominently on single gene traits. Let's be clear that despite the wholesale commercial merging of these two processes (human directed natural selection and abject, forceful violation of natural processes which have evolved explicitly to maintain species integrity), they are by no means the same thing. For more on this, see my talk entitled The Faulty Assumptions of Field Crop Genetic Engineering, mounted on my homepage. You said: > But the future of breeding lies in understanding the biology and developing > more efficient ways to manipulate the endogenous genetics of crop plants > than the big crap-shoot approach of traditional breeding. Even in corn, > that has been so thoroughly worked, you can bet the full value of the > species has not been realized. Corn has somewhere around 60,000 genes, and This starts from the presumption, which I do not share, that genetics is "the" solution to what are quite often management-induced problems. This has been discussed in some depth already on sanet, so I won't delve back into it again. But certainly, this presumption strongly channelizes one's thought into what is the way of the future, and how to get there. > > They have no way (yet) of ensuring that the transgene(s) goes > > into a particular chromosome, let alone, at a particular > > insertion point. > > Oh, there are ways. They don't work very well yet, but in a few years you > will be seeing targeted insertion products. That is why I said "yet". Too bad they couldn't wait until they got the science right before commercializing the technology. Whether it was this issue or keeping their genes at home where they belong, or unintended impacts on nontarget organisms or human food safety testing or whatever. I'm told that Big M has been forced to settle out of court on their highly dubious case against Percy. The claims are not compatible with the reality, and blind faith that "ways will be found" provide little comfort to the people and the environment which will be impacted - involuntarily - along the way. I said: > > So, I am increasingly convinced that it is the process that is > > dysfunctional and indefensible - not just the products (the latter is > > the industry position). > To which, you said: > You know, at a place I used to work the farm manager was a nay-sayer. We > (the faculty) would come to him with clever experimental designs and new > ways to collect data. He would always find a reason why things couldn't > work (and in his hands, they usually didn't). This guy retired and we got a > new farm manager, and he made the ideas work. That is the kind of attitude > I find at Pioneer. > > This list is filled with negative people, apparently worshipping the coming > apocalypse. Yes, I am scared to death of the population explosion, and > worried about the future. But I like to work on solutions, and applied > biology is my thing (not GE per se). I think you will see a lot of good > things come from GE methods. We are at the very beginning of this > technology. It is like the transistor in 1960. I agree, GE is frightening. Really, my friend, is Luddite-baiting the best defense you can make against scientifically-sound criticism? Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 11:17:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26249 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA09886 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09812 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu by chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0:JLF-19970113) id KAA18716; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:10:33 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990726100617.006bb488@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:06:17 -0400 To: David Hine From: John Lozier Subject: Re: Off topic - changing from Windows to Linux/Gov't & Industry Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990725121229.00710d70@nrg.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1796 In a nutshell, can you tell me please what is good about Linux? I loved my DOS, never did get to like WINDOWS. I actually simulate DOS for lots of my tasks, but can't quite imagine going back to single-tasking everything. It's just hard to put the system-shift high up on the priority list, with so many other things to do. This may not be strictly sustainable ag, but David's basic point is the need for a supportive community. Peace. John Lozier At 12:12 PM 7/25/99 +1000, you wrote: >>>> Dear All Part of what Sanet is about is being a supportive community for those courageous, strong....(whatever) enough to change. I use Linux and love it. Yes Fred the awareness created by debate in the media has helped, but the fact that I can have an operating system that is better, more stable and only fifteen dollars helps. Then I use Star Office for the usual range of tasks - w There are solutions out there for a broad range of tasks from agriculture to computing for those not wanting to be beholden to organisations who seem to them to be exploitive. It helps if we all prosper them. David David Hine Atkins Rd. Cawongla via Kyogle NSW 2474 Australia http://nrg.com.au/~fresherb Sustainable Agriculture: Productivity, System Resilience, Maintenance of Natural Assets, and Equity for Producers. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail <<<<<<<< To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 11:28:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26477 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16005 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:28:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15983 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.82]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990726142708.JOWU5731@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:27:08 +0000 Message-ID: <379C700F.32E5F8A9@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:26:23 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ",SANET-mg" Subject: Re: GE primer (was: easier to swallow?) References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE47@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1797 Wilson, Dale wrote: > This list is filled with negative people, apparently worshipping the coming > apocalypse. This list is also apparently filled with some people who wear rose-colored glasses and are welcoming a Trojan horse which is filled with toxic substances and manipulation techniques that kill or cause severe harm to more than pests. In a joint 1978 Water Quality Agreement, the U.S. and Canada defined a "toxic substance" as "a substance which can cause death, disease, behavioral abnormalities, cancer, genetic mutations, physiological or reproductive malfunctions or physical deformities in any organism or its offspring, or which can become poisonous after concentration in the food chain or in combination with other substances." The same companies making popular but potentially dangerous herbicides and other pesticides and manipulating genes, have also wooed the world with polychlorinated biphenyls, which are now carried in the cells of every living being on the planet and contributing to all sorts of serious retributions. Yet, some people alike some corporations, ignore history and the insanity done is the name of progress. Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 11:34:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA26631 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16372 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:29:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA16366 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.140] (br-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.140]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA15741; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907261428.HAA15741@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:25:32 -0700 Subject: FW: New Barrier Blocks Pesky Poultry Beetles From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1798 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Barrier Blocks Pesky Poultry Beetles Date: Mon, Jul 26, 1999, 5:32 AM STORY LEAD: New Barrier Blocks Pesky Beetles ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov July 26, 1999 ----------- Poultry farmers may no longer have to worry about replacing beetle- damaged hen house roofs, thanks to a new invention called BEETLBAR, developed by Agricultural Research Service scientists in Gainesville, Fla. BEETLBAR is a non-toxic physical barrier that prevents crawling insects from boring into wooden structures. Two insects in particular pose problems for poultry farmers--darkling beetles, also called lesser mealworms, and hide beetles. The larvae of these beetles develop in poultry litter and manure under high-rise poultry houses. Floor-reared birds feed on migrating beetles, which can harbor Salmonella typhimurium, Escherichia coli, tapeworms and avian leukosis virus--leading to major economic losses for farmers. This new plastic barrier, developed by research chemist David A. Carlson and research entomologist Christopher J. Geden, can be placed around trees, poultry house foundations, and a variety of residential, commercial, industrial and farm buildings. Carlson and Geden are with the ARS Center for Medical, Agricultural and Veterinary Entomology's Mosquito and Fly Research Unit. Beetle larvae usually migrate from litter and crawl up walls and posts into ceiling insulation, burrowing holes and causing major structural damage in timbers. BEETLBAR's slick surface prevents this migration. In Georgia and Virginia alone, annual losses from these insects are estimated at $9.8 and $15.9 million, respectively. Carlson says the new barrier is strong, long-lasting, lightweight, and easy to apply and clean. He says a major advantage of using BEETLBAR is that it reduces pesticides needed to control litter beetles. Another advantage of this new barrier is it will save poultry farmers money in losses from beetle-damaged broiler houses that cost thousands of dollars more to heat and cool than non-damaged houses. Beetle damaged insulation can cost more than $30,000 a house. Carlson and Geden have filed for a patent on this new invention. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. ---------- Scientific contacts: David A. Carlson and Christopher J. Geden, ARS Center for Medical, Agricultural and Veterinary Entomology, Mosquito and Fly Research Unit, Gainesville, Fla., (phone) 352-374-5931, (fax) 352-374-5922, dacarlson@nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu, cgeden@gainesville.usda.ufl.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 12:12:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27526 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04752 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:58:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04720 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA24324; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:57:58 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma023358; Mon, 26 Jul 99 09:57:27 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:57:27 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE4A@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Mark'" Subject: RE: heating cooking oil causes cancer Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:57:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1799 Mark, > I find it very difficult to believe that heating cooking oil > causes cancer. Bargyla is correct. Heating fat, or exposing it to air DOES produce a plethora of genuinely nasty chemicals (far worse than pesticides) that represent only a theoretical hazard at low dose. The key word here is theoretical. It can be easily demonstrated that if naturally occuring chemicals (even in raw food) were regulated as stringently as are pesticides, essentially no food would be approved for consumption. > But cancer rates have only dramatically > increased in the last century or so. As you requested from Bargyla, "let's see the data." Once you eliminate the effects of smoking and longevity, most cancer rates have stayed the same. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 12:12:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27525 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08764 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:10:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from borg.cc.vt.edu (borg.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.242]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08720 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:10:01 -0400 (EDT) From: karenm@vt.edu Received: by borg.cc.vt.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:09:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: hemp processing Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:09:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA08730 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1800 Hemp keeps coming up as a panacea for tobacco producers. I realize it is illegal in the US, but special permits can be obtained to produce it--at least that is what I understood from my search. The question is why aren't more people looking at hemp production? Does anyone have any information on processing hemp into cloth and paper? I have been told the processing is environmentally unfriendly because of the chemicals required to breakdown the cells, especially when dealing with cloth production. How was it processed historically--I'm told that was very labor intensive. All this is hearsay, not references to processing, either now or historically. Thanks for any information you can provide, especially on the production end. Karen Mundy Communications Coordinator Rural Economic Analysis Program Department of Agricultural and Applied Economics (0401) Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-9443 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 13:23:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA28940 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19508 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19491 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.243.134]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990726162036.NAQU8676@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:20:36 +0000 Message-ID: <379C8AA4.E5195386@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:19:48 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: Re: ...causes cancer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1801 Dale wrote: <> My father died of brain cancer at the age of 55, which is not elderly. It is actually two years younger than my husband and I are now and we have not yet been retired. I have since learned that vinyl chloride is among the causes of brain cancer and that vinyl chloride, until somewhat recently, was among the misnamed inert ingredient in pesticides! These pesticides were used on agriculture and have been identified in some crops, such as tobacco, according to court testimony in the tobacco cases. An (Internatinal Agency for the Research on Cancer) IARC Working Group reported that there is sufficient evidence for the carcinogenicity of vinyl chloride in humans (IARC S.7, 1987). Vinyl chloride has been associated with tumors of the liver, brain, lung, and hematolymphopoietic system.. A large number of epidemiological studies and case reports have substantiated the causal association between vinyl chloride and angiosarcoma of the liver. Several studies also confirm that exposure to vinyl chloride causes other forms of cancer, i.e., hepatocellular carcinoma, brain tumors, lung tumors, and malignancies of the lymphatic and hematopoietic system. More recently, other substances are suggested as links to brain cancer, such as the genetically engineered enzyme which creates asparatame --Nutrasweet. ''In the U.S., brain cancer has been steadily increasing about 0.7% per year since 1973. This steady increase is noteworthy by itself. However, among people over age 65, brain cancer has been increasing 2.9% each year...Today roughly 17,500 Americans (9600 males, 7900 females) are diagnosed with new brain cancers each year.[1] During the period 1973-1990 brain cancer steadily increased in other industrialized countries as well, especially among the elderly.[2]'' Source: Brain Cancer Update, http://www.monitor.net/rachel/r520.html > [1] Benjamin F. Hankey and others, "Brain and Other Nervous System [Cancers]," in Barry A. Miller and others, editors, SEER CANCER STATISTICS REVIEW 1973-1990 [NIH Publication No. 93-2789] (Bethesda, Maryland: National Cancer Institute, 1993, pgs. III.1-III.20. And: Nigel H. Greig and others, "Increasing Annual Incidence of Primary Malignant Brain Tumors in the Elderly," JOURNAL OF THE NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE Vol. 82, No. 20 (October 17, 1990), pgs. 1621-1624. [2] Yang Mao and others, "Increasing Brain Cancer Rates in Canada," CANADIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION JOURNAL Vol. 145, No. 12 (December 15, 1991), pgs. 1583-1591. And: M. Bahemuka and others, "International Mortality from Primary Nervous System Neoplasms: Distribution and Trends," INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF EPIDEMIOLOGY Vol. 17, No. 1 (1988), pgs. 33-38. Are Helseth and others, "Neoplasms of the Central Nervous System in Norway," APMIS Vol. 96 (1988), pgs. 1066-1074. Anders Ahlbom and Ylva Rodvall, "Brain Tumor Trends [letter]," THE LANCET November 25, 1989, pg. 1272. Y. Ben-Shlomo and G. Davey Smith, "[Untitled letter]," THE LANCET November 25, 1989, pgs. 1272- 1273. F. Levi and C. La Vecchia, "Trends in Brain Cancer [letter]," THE LANCET October 14, 1989, pg. 917. And: Anders Ahlbom, "Some Notes on Brain Tumor Epidemiology," in Devra Lee Davis and David Hoel, editors, TRENDS IN CANCER MORTALITY IN INDUSTRIAL COUNTRIES [Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences Vol. 609] (New York: New York Academy of Sciences, 1990), pgs. 179-190. Devra Lee Davis and others, "Is Brain Cancer Mortality Increasing in Industrial Countries?" AMERICAN JOURNAL OF INDUSTRIAL MEDICINE Vol. 19 (1991), pgs. 421-431. And: Devra Lee Davis and others, "Is Brain Cancer Mortality Increasing in Industrial Countries?" in Devra Lee Davis and David Hoel, editors, TRENDS IN CANCER MORTALITY IN INDUSTRIAL COUNTRIES [Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences Vol. 609] (New York: New York Academy of Sciences, 1990), pgs. 191-204. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 13:23:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA28944 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21016 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:25:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA21002 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu by chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0:JLF-19970113) id MAA23320; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:22:56 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990726120851.006c9a58@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:08:51 -0400 To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net, ",SANET-mg" From: John Lozier Subject: Re: GE primer (was: easier to swallow?) In-Reply-To: <379C700F.32E5F8A9@worldnet.att.net> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE47@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1802 Crimeny, sanet-mg friends, chill out. This list also has a lot of people of good will with an array of viewpoints. We need them all in the discussion, even the wrong ones. Tone it down a bit, please! John Lozier, harper for harmony. At 09:26 AM 7/26/99 -0500, Bunny Snow wrote: >Wilson, Dale wrote: > >> This list is filled with negative people, apparently worshipping the coming >> apocalypse. > >This list is also apparently filled with some people who wear rose-colored >glasses and are welcoming a Trojan horse which is filled with toxic substances >and manipulation techniques that kill (snip) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 13:24:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA28971 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA11942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11879 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA27709 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08908 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:10:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:10:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: heating cooking oil causes cancer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990726101436.007bea30@crocker.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1803 On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Mark wrote: > Subject: Re: heating cooking oil causes cancer from eating rancid oils heated or not from nitrosomines generated during the browning of food during cooking (in oil or dry) this is documented and has been in the news over the years To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 14:44:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00770 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA02896 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA02882 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA29408 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:50:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA09962 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:40:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:40:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: GE primer (was: easier to swallow?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990726120851.006c9a58@wvu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1804 On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, John Lozier wrote: > Crimeny, sanet-mg friends, chill out. This list also has a lot of people > of good will with an array of viewpoints. We need them all in the > discussion, even the wrong ones. Tone it down a bit, please! I don't think it needs "toning down" at all. I much prefer being informed by the dialogue in this list as it naturally develops. Maybe you can find something better to harp on, John :-) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 16:21:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA03730 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA27253 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:17:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web607.mail.yahoo.com (web607.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.171]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA27236 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990726191554.14479.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web607.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:15:54 EDT Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:15:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: australian consumer To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1805 Howdy SANETeers, A study reported in "Retail World", Australia's own supermarket newsmagazine, Vol. 52, No. 12, June 21-July 2, 1999 has some revealing statistics about consumer preferences. The study involved 800 people and was commissioned by Murdock Magazines. Eighty-eight percent of those responding were concerned about the integrity of their food. Chemicals were the major worry with 65% of those resonding indicating concern. Forty percent were anxious about genetic engineering. Nearly half said they were willing to pay more for food raised by purely natural methods. I wonder how the U.S. consumer would compare. kate _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 20:42:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA10497 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA11077 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:37:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from 56-3.clever.net (56-3.clever.net [209.235.6.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11068 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (r-152.91.alltel.net [166.102.152.91]) by 56-3.clever.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA13863 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002801bed7bf$a4cee360$5b9866a6@default> Reply-To: "Christiane Hitchcock" From: "Christiane Hitchcock" To: References: <199907262210.SAA11789@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: australian consumer Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:36:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1806 Haven't found but one or two people concerned about all the chemicals or meat by-products in their meat here in our discussions with John Q Public about ostrich meat and why we don't give our birds hormones, steroids, antibiotics, or animal by-products in their feed. I'm not sure the average farmer can make any living raising healthy food. Chris JC Ostrich Ranch www.jcranch.com > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:15:54 -0400 (EDT) > From: Kate Smith > Subject: australian consumer > > Howdy SANETeers, > A study reported in "Retail World", Australia's own > supermarket newsmagazine, Vol. 52, No. 12, June 21-July 2, > 1999 has some revealing statistics about consumer > preferences. > > The study involved 800 people and was commissioned by > Murdock Magazines. > > Eighty-eight percent of those responding were concerned > about the integrity of their food. Chemicals were the > major worry with 65% of those resonding indicating concern. > Forty percent were anxious about genetic engineering. > Nearly half said they were willing to pay more for food > raised by purely natural methods. > > I wonder how the U.S. consumer would compare. > > kate > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Jul 26 21:59:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA11816 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA20584 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:22:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA20568 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d13-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.13]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA09072; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:21:44 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Wilson, Dale" , Cc: "'Mark'" Subject: RE: heating cooking oil causes cancer Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:25:30 +1000 Message-ID: <001501bed7ce$ea60cd80$0d3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE4A@vela.phibred.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1807 I think a clear distinction needs to me made between saturated and unsaturated oils. The term 'unsaturated' refers to the availability of carbon atoms in the molecule for oxidation, hence rancidification at room temperature, not to mention body temperature. This is an issue in which sense seems to have been defeated by marketing science, and the Heart Foundations have bought the wrong end of the issue entirely, in my view. The processes by which we make steroidal hormones require conversion of cholesterol (from saturated oils, or made by the body if it doesn't think you have enough cholesterol), as the making of energy packages [ATP] requires oxygen and sugar; all these happen in the mitochondria in electron transfer processes. Free radicals are 'active oxygen forms' [AOF] or 'reactive oxygen species' [ROS] produced in such processes. In the healthiest people, mitochondrial respiration is still only 80% efficient, meaning an abundance of free radicals. The major antioxidants (to prevent damage from the free radicals) are carbon dioxide and vitamins A, B, C and E. The major rogue substances, keen to combine with the ROS are unsaturated oils. A critical factor is that the oxidation of the unsaturated oils creates a circumstance diminishing respiration and steroidogenesis generally. This has many debilitating effects, of which cancer is only one prospect. Essentially, a biological stress occurs, precipitating problems for the immune, nervous and reproductive systems. Precise disease consequences will vary from person to person. Medicine then tends to rattle off chasing the symptom trail, just as agricultural research chases the bugs and not the nutritional derangement of plants in rotten soil with their respiratory capacities choked variously. Unsaturated oils are not the only problem, but especial problems arise from their lauding by the medical establishment. Marketing of plant oils for food arose when they lost their place as paint thinners, let us hope that a market for their consumption by cars arises soon. Piggies in Wisconsin winter will have more unsaturated fat near their skins than deeper. Hot piggies in the Philippines will carry very little unsaturated oil. Pigs force fed grains will have more unsaturated fat on them (you can't buy really hard lard any more) put on watery weight more quickly than pastured, varied diet healthy pigs, make more watery money for the producer, cause more nutritionists to foam at the mouth about fats. Unsaturated grain oils, designed in nature mainly to stop seed freezing on the ground in cold climates in winter, aren't ideal in warm bloods. There is quite a lot of scientific evidence, but it's awkward for important people's careers that rare founded on ill founded conventional beliefs. Start with White Handler Smith, Principles of Biochemistry, chapter on steroids. Medline search on CO2+AOF, CO2+ROS may be of interest. Also see Ray Peat's papers on unsaturated oils and coconut oil at http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/ Read some of the apoptosis literature. Search for 'apoptosis +mitochondria'. If your mitochondria are sick, unable to perform [as, among other things, with problems with unsaturates] then apoptosis will not be efficient and cancer opportunities may arise. But remember that apoptosis is theory. Question/hypothesis opportunity: if marijuana receptors accept one of three things - the false euphorics in dope, the natural euphoria producing saturates, or the dysphoria producing unsaturates, is the heart industry campaign for unsaturate use causing mass dysphoria and demand for drugs? Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 00:49:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA14446 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA08678 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:01:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA08609 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:01:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA06336; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:00:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2c-31.ix.netcom.com(209.110.254.31) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006280; Mon Jul 26 22:59:51 1999 Message-ID: <000801bed7e3$f94a59a0$1ffe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Christiane Hitchcock" , Subject: Re: australian consumer(but I found some good news) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:56:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1808 This past week-end we went to visit a local farm that we saw publicized in a Massachusetts Farm Directory. My husband knew of the farm in a blast from the past sort of way. Well they are a nice family farm and they sell their own milk added hormone free. They don't claim to be organic but I was so pleased about the rBGH free. They also sell their own meat. I can buy pork again. I have been on almost a full pork boycott since reading about the small farmer being pushed out. I bought a ham steak and a pork roast. Havn't eaten it yet. Too busy trying to eat the surplus veggies. Well those nice people are going in my CSA newsletter(because some of my members have asked about local meat and rBGH free milk) and I hope some of my members go buy some of their stuff. I feel a little bit better about local ag. We went into the barn just as 3 yes 3 generations were finishing up the milking. A bright spot in our ag concerns. Beth > Haven't found but one or two people concerned about all the chemicals or >meat by-products in their meat here in our discussions with John Q Public >about ostrich meat and why we don't give our birds hormones, steroids, >antibiotics, or animal by-products in their feed. I'm not sure the average >farmer can make any living raising healthy food. >Chris >JC Ostrich Ranch >www.jcranch.com > >> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:15:54 -0400 (EDT) >> From: Kate Smith >> Subject: australian consumer >> >> Howdy SANETeers, >> A study reported in "Retail World", Australia's own >> supermarket newsmagazine, Vol. 52, No. 12, June 21-July 2, >> 1999 has some revealing statistics about consumer >> preferences. >> >> The study involved 800 people and was commissioned by >> Murdock Magazines. >> >> Eighty-eight percent of those responding were concerned >> about the integrity of their food. Chemicals were the >> major worry with 65% of those resonding indicating concern. >> Forty percent were anxious about genetic engineering. >> Nearly half said they were willing to pay more for food >> raised by purely natural methods. >> >> I wonder how the U.S. consumer would compare. >> >> kate >> > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 00:49:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA14451 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA05168 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:58:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA05110 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.244.120]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990727035749.JNRS27673@worldnet.att.net>; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:57:49 +0000 Message-ID: <379D2E0F.B89796D9@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:57:03 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christiane Hitchcock , SANET-mg Subject: Re: australian consumer References: <199907262210.SAA11789@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <002801bed7bf$a4cee360$5b9866a6@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1809 Christiane, To get away from potentially chemically-tainted meat, I became a vegetarian. Occasionally I buy free-range poultry for my husband, but I consume veggies, grains and beans --all grown by the organic method. When I occasionally eat chemically produced crops, I get an immediate sore throat.. In addition, they just don't compare in flavor which is why I suspect the insects won't eat them either!!! Nothing compares with organically produced agriculture!! Bunny Snow ---------------------------------------------------------- Christiane Hitchcock wrote: > Haven't found but one or two people concerned about all the chemicals or > meat by-products in their meat here in our discussions with John Q Public > about ostrich meat and why we don't give our birds hormones, steroids, > antibiotics, or animal by-products in their feed. I'm not sure the average > farmer can make any living raising healthy food. > Chris > JC Ostrich Ranch > www.jcranch.com > > > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:15:54 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Kate Smith > > Subject: australian consumer > > > > Howdy SANETeers, > > A study reported in "Retail World", Australia's own > > supermarket newsmagazine, Vol. 52, No. 12, June 21-July 2, > > 1999 has some revealing statistics about consumer > > preferences. > > > > The study involved 800 people and was commissioned by > > Murdock Magazines. > > > > Eighty-eight percent of those responding were concerned > > about the integrity of their food. Chemicals were the > > major worry with 65% of those resonding indicating concern. > > Forty percent were anxious about genetic engineering. > > Nearly half said they were willing to pay more for food > > raised by purely natural methods. > > > > I wonder how the U.S. consumer would compare. > > > > kate > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 09:38:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA22219 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA01523 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:00:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01491 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA19112; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:59:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-13.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.13) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019101; Tue Jul 27 07:58:51 1999 Message-ID: <002501bed82f$48112be0$0df86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Christiane Hitchcock" , "SANET-mg" Subject: Re: australian consumer/ organic veggies Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:55:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1810 Bunny you are right about the taste. We have a 37 member CSA and I love when folks comment on the taste. Most comments, Beets. They are not the same "species" as grocery store beets :). And a woman told me this week that the green and yellow beans where the best beans she'd eaten ever. That makes weeding bearable! Beth >Christiane, > >To get away from potentially chemically-tainted meat, I became a vegetarian. >Occasionally I buy free-range poultry for my husband, but I consume veggies, >grains and beans --all grown by the organic method. > >When I occasionally eat chemically produced crops, I get an immediate sore >throat.. In addition, they just don't compare in flavor which is why I suspect >the insects won't eat them either!!! Nothing compares with organically >produced agriculture!! > >Bunny Snow >---------------------------------------------------------- > >Christiane Hitchcock wrote: > >> Haven't found but one or two people concerned about all the chemicals or >> meat by-products in their meat here in our discussions with John Q Public >> about ostrich meat and why we don't give our birds hormones, steroids, >> antibiotics, or animal by-products in their feed. I'm not sure the average >> farmer can make any living raising healthy food. >> Chris >> JC Ostrich Ranch >> www.jcranch.com >> >> > Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:15:54 -0400 (EDT) >> > From: Kate Smith >> > Subject: australian consumer >> > >> > Howdy SANETeers, >> > A study reported in "Retail World", Australia's own >> > supermarket newsmagazine, Vol. 52, No. 12, June 21-July 2, >> > 1999 has some revealing statistics about consumer >> > preferences. >> > >> > The study involved 800 people and was commissioned by >> > Murdock Magazines. >> > >> > Eighty-eight percent of those responding were concerned >> > about the integrity of their food. Chemicals were the >> > major worry with 65% of those resonding indicating concern. >> > Forty percent were anxious about genetic engineering. >> > Nearly half said they were willing to pay more for food >> > raised by purely natural methods. >> > >> > I wonder how the U.S. consumer would compare. >> > >> > kate >> > >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 10:48:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23482 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA14395 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:12:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f176.hotmail.com [216.32.181.176]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA14381 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 76327 invoked by uid 0); 27 Jul 1999 14:11:40 -0000 Message-ID: <19990727141140.76326.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 24.95.191.247 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:11:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [24.95.191.247] From: "Lester Loam" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Negative people? I don't think so ... Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:11:40 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1811 Dale Wilson wrote: >This list is filled with negative people, apparently worshipping >the >coming apocalypse. Dale: I beg to differ. Most of the people on sanet and most in the sustainable ag community are among the most positive people I know. They don't worship the apocalypse. They're doing all they can to make sure that it doesn't happen in their lifetime or anytime in the near future. I'm not trying to speak for all, but I think most in the sustainable ag community have a strong, clear and positive vision of the world as it could be. They see the small percentage of farmers who have broken from the conventional paradigm (or never embraced it) and are forging sustainable operations that are economically and environmentally sustainable -- or at least closer to it than the run-of-the-mill farm. They envision what the world would look like if this were the rule, rather than the exception, and they like what they see. They see thriving rural communities. They see humane livestock systems. They see a global food system that is just and provides everyone with sufficient, secure and healthful food supplies. This is not an apocalyptic vision. Utopian, maybe. But not doom and gloom. If you sense negativity from this group, it is possibly because they are negative about business as usual. It might be that they are negative about the tactics you embrace to reach your somewhat different vision of a sustainable future. Are sustainable ag people defensive? You bet. I think that perhaps a decade ago, they were encouraged that there appeared to be bridges to their sustainable vision. But lately, very powerful forces appear to be trying to slam the door shut on their vision. It's easy to get defensive when you see the window of opportunity shrinking on your vision. Consequently, you hear a lot more criticism of what's happening today than you hear about the positive vision of the future. Is that what you interpret as negativity? Lester _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From brateaver@earthlink.net Tue Jul 27 11:44:13 1999 Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA24589 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.15]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25118; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379D667B.6F2CF796@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:57:48 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: heating cooking oil causes cancer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1812 Yeah, that's right, Mr. London. I did not mention that also, but it is true, carbon like that of burned toast and caramelizing, also cause cancer. I know this kind of info just makes most people angry, but it appears to be true data. Should not eat browned, burned foods. We used to love what the natives in Madagascar called "hena ritra"--meaning ripened meat--usually stew meat first browned and then cooked with water--a good brown gravy. Yeah, it tasted so good, but that was because a child learns very early to like the food it gets, usually, so grows up thinking that tastes "so good". I still love that taste too, but try to not indulge it. I cut off the burned edges of toast, and I don't use anything caramelized. When you stop to think of it, so many food we got used to are just not good for us. Anyway, no matter how you twist it,REMEMBER, EVERY OTHER AMERICAN WILL GET CANCER. What a record for a country only 200 yrs old, that started with a clean, beautiful, wooded landscape. Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Mark wrote: > > > Subject: Re: heating cooking oil causes cancer > > from eating rancid oils heated or not > > from nitrosomines generated during the browning of food during cooking > (in oil or dry) > > this is documented and has been in the news over the years > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 12:18:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA25351 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00556 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:34:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00518 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.15]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25118; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379D667B.6F2CF796@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:57:48 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: heating cooking oil causes cancer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1813 Yeah, that's right, Mr. London. I did not mention that also, but it is true, carbon like that of burned toast and caramelizing, also cause cancer. I know this kind of info just makes most people angry, but it appears to be true data. Should not eat browned, burned foods. We used to love what the natives in Madagascar called "hena ritra"--meaning ripened meat--usually stew meat first browned and then cooked with water--a good brown gravy. Yeah, it tasted so good, but that was because a child learns very early to like the food it gets, usually, so grows up thinking that tastes "so good". I still love that taste too, but try to not indulge it. I cut off the burned edges of toast, and I don't use anything caramelized. When you stop to think of it, so many food we got used to are just not good for us. Anyway, no matter how you twist it,REMEMBER, EVERY OTHER AMERICAN WILL GET CANCER. What a record for a country only 200 yrs old, that started with a clean, beautiful, wooded landscape. Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Mark wrote: > > > Subject: Re: heating cooking oil causes cancer > > from eating rancid oils heated or not > > from nitrosomines generated during the browning of food during cooking > (in oil or dry) > > this is documented and has been in the news over the years > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 13:45:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27648 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA22462 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:56:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.a001.sprintmail.com (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22384 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP067.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.51]) by crow.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08032 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379DE58A.78A1FE7E@sprintmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:59:54 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: GMOs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1814 Here's something to think about for all those who say that GMOs will save us from all our problems: Date Posted: 07/26/1999, Posted by: M.W.Ho@open.ac.uk ================================ Press Release July 27, 1999 Institute of Science in Society Contact: Dr. Mae-Wan Ho. Tel: 44-01908-653113/44-0171-272-5636 e-mail: m.w.ho@open.ac.uk MAFF Reveals New Scientific Findings Confirming Fears Over Health Hazards of GMOs The following warnings come from a letter from N. Tomlinson of UK MAFF's Joint Food Safety and Standards Group dated 4 December 1998 to the US FDA, commenting on its draft document, "Guidance for Industry: Use of Antibiotic Resistance Marker Genes in Transgenic Plants". * Exposure of farm workers and food processors to transgenic DNA in dust and pollen * Transfer of antibiotic resistant marker genes to gut microorganisms * Transfer of antibiotic marker genes to environmental organisms * Transfer of transgenic DNA into mammalian cells * Ampicillin resistance marker gene may compromise treatment for meningitis The letter from MAFF cites new findings from the University of Leeds showing "the relative difficulty with which plant DNA is degraded during processing"(p.4). It mentions other new research showing that bacteria in the mouth can take up foreign DNA and express the gene(s); and transformable bacteria are also present in the respiratory tract. MAFF warns that "there is a case to be concerned about the problem of gene transfer to environmental organisms" and that bacteria that have taken up the antibiotic resistance genes "could also act as a gene pool that may interact with human pathogens." (p.4). "The widespread use of transgenics carrying antibiotic resistance marker genes will involve a massive amplification of these genes in the biosphere. Whether or not these genes are expressed, amplification on the scale that will occur when transgenic crops are planted in large fields means that arguments about the rarity of possible transfer events will become less significant." (p.5). MAFF cites recent publications showing that transgenic DNA may gain access into mammalian cells by being carried in pathogenic bacteria that invade cells. The ampicillin-resistance marker gene encodes a beta-lactamase which inactivates penicillin and other penicillin-like antibiotics. This gene is highly mutable, and hence capable of extending its spectrum of resistence to many other similar antibiotics. "Human respiratory flora contains notable potential pathogens including Neisseria meningitidis and Streptococcus pneumoniae. These bacteria do not currently exhibit high-level, beta-lactamase mediated resistance to penicillins." (p.5) Dr. Mae-Wan Ho , a scientists who has been warning of these possibilities of horizontal gene transfer to unrelated species for several years, says,"It is irresponsible for the Government to continue with the massive farm-scale field trials in view of the evidence its own scientists are taking into account." She points out that transgenic pollen can travel for miles. Not only farm workers and food processors, but the general public will also be exposed to transgenic DNA, while bees will certainly take it up and contaminate the honey. There is no provision to monitor for horizontal gene transfer or impacts on health in the current farm-scale trials. The current farm-scale field trials involve herbicide-tolerant transgenic maize and canola. The transgenic maize carries a 'disrupted' ampicilllin-resistance gene, which is not expressed. However, given the mutability of that gene, it may become re-activated in bacteria. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 13:49:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA27805 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA29199 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:07:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA29092 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:02:49 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:59:07 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: brateaver@earthlink.net, rnn@rnn.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: request for information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1815 But wasn't the cactus an introduced species in the first place (Opuntia sp.)? My recollection is that the cacti are all new-world species. So, in that sense, it was a pest or weed displacing native species -- same thing in Australia with cactus, European rabbits, etc. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 14:15:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28398 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:15:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA13526 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:31:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA13454 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id MAA23013; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:31:28 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma021877; Tue, 27 Jul 99 12:30:47 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:30:47 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE50@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Bargyla Rateaver'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Everything causes cancer? (was cooking oil...) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:30:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1816 Bargyla, As Dennis pointed out, mitochondria in every cell in our bodies are the big sources of free radicals and active oxygen species. These are directly and indirectly (via formation of cytotoxic aldehydes) mutagenic. Similar chemicals are formed by oxidation of fats in food products as pointed out by Lawrence. Cellular systems exist to control and detoxify these chemical threats. Many other endogenous threats attack our tissues moment-by-moment. That is why cell constituents are constantly turned over, recycled and repaired. > carbon like that of burned toast and caramelizing, also cause > cancer. > ...it appears to be true data. Should not eat browned, > burned foods. I think we need to keep these risks in perspective. There is much reason to believe that rodent assays at high doses routinely overestimate carcinogenic potential when extrapolated to low doses. Feeding substances at the maximum tolerated dose (MTD) often increases rate of cell division in many tissues by direct toxic effects. This indirectly increases the rate of cancer formation. So you say, what's the difference, direct, indirect, who cares? It makes a difference when you try to extrapolate down to realistic doses. The assumption built into the regulatory system is "one molecule-one mutation." This is true for a small, but significant class of chemicals that precisely screw up processes involving DNA. But for chemicals that moderately increase cancer rates via generalized toxic effects when given at unimaginably high doses, the assumption is ridiculous, and leads to gross overestimation of risk. As Ames, et al. note (PROC. NAT. ACAD. SCI. 87: 7777-7781): "99.99% (by weight) of the pesticides in the American diet are chemicals that plants produce to defend themselves. Only 52 natural pesticides have been tested in high-dose animal cancer tests, and about half (27) are rodent carcinogens." We are naturally bathed in chemicals that theoretically cause cancer. The key word here is theoretical. It all depends on the model. > Anyway, no matter how you twist it,REMEMBER, EVERY OTHER > AMERICAN WILL GET CANCER. I don't believe that is true. According to the American Cancer Society http://www.cancer.org/statistics/cff99/basicfacts.html#hadcancer "Cancer is the second leading cause of death in the US, exceeded only by heart disease. In the US, 1 of every 4 deaths is from cancer." "The National Cancer Institute estimates that approximately 8.2 million Americans alive today have a history of cancer." Maybe I am missing some statistical nuance, but what you wrote about cancer incidence doesn't seem to jive with this. I am not convinced. I am going to continue to eat roasted salmon, fried onions, bratwurst, buttermilk pancakes etc. because they are so damn good. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 17:18:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04813 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA22197 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:20:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22189 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA08632 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:19:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [139.142.112.144] [139.142.112.144] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m119CoP-0006fkC for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:27:49 -0700 Subject: Jojoba/Patchouli From: "Beth Lischeron" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1817 Does anyone have or know of: a) sources for pure jojoba oil? b) info on patchouli essential oil (or any other EE) for use in pest control +/or as personal insect repellent? Thanks for the help, Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 17:19:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04849 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA22116 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:19:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net [207.41.144.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22106 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kenn002a-p1-097.cybertours.com (kenn002a-p1-097.cybertours.com [208.161.22.97]) by gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with SMTP id QAA02013 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907272019.QAA02013@gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net> X-Sender: stevem@pop.nh.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: stevem@nh.ultranet.com (Stephen Maxam) Subject: RE: heating cooking oil causes cancer Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1818 >> But cancer rates have only dramatically >> increased in the last century or so. > >As you requested from Bargyla, "let's see the data." Once you eliminate the >effects of smoking and longevity, most cancer rates have stayed the same. > >Dale > > I can't call up any data, but I'm quite sure I've seen references to certain cancers not related to smoking or longevity that have risen considerably in the last several decades. Anybody have anything definitive on this? Stephen Maxam To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 17:41:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05435 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA14805 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:59:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14780 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.11] (ppp-206-170-0-11.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.11]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21871; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:46:12 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: FLA: Introduced /Fusarium/ plan Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1819 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you stupidity-watchers. Maybe they could introduce some cane toads, goats, cats, and what the heck anthrax and Ebola virus while they're at it. (Pardon my editorializing. And please note the next to the last sentence in the following story, which manages to palm off any previous biological mistakes on the mistakes themselves, rather than on the people who made them, and allow that to stand as evidence that it can't happen again. :^) The person who sent it to me indicated it was in the electronic edition of the /New York Times/ this morning. peace misha (who also opines that "Ag/Bio Con" is the perfect name for such a biz) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Marijuana-Eating Fungus Seen as Potent > Weapon, but at What Cost? > > > > By RICK BRAGG > > IAMI -- For decades, the hard part for drug agents stalking > Florida's marijuana growers was finding their crop. >The growers > weave their plants among corn stalks and even tomato vines >to foil aerial > searches. In swamps, growers make berms out of muck and chicken > wire and plant their crop, leaving fat, black water >moccasins to stand > guard. > > Hidden in Florida's lush landscape, the camouflaged marijuana plants > often foiled the small army of officers, helicopters and >drug-sniffing dogs. > > Now, the new head of the state's Office of Drug Control >hopes to kill > Florida's lucrative marijuana business in the very ground >in which it > thrives, by someday dusting suspected areas with a marijuana-eating, > soil-borne fungus, Fusarium oxysporum. It is a plan that has some > politicians and Florida drug enforcement officials excited, and some > environmentalists very worried. > > The fungus, a bioherbicide engineered specifically to >attack plants like > marijuana, is otherwise harmless, said Ag/Bio Con, the Montana > company that developed it. > > "Is it safe, and does it work?" asked Jim McDonough, who >was hired by > Gov. Jeb Bush this year to head Florida's Office of Drug Control. > > "I've heard some of the top scientists in the country say, >'Yes.' " But > McDonough, who served as Director of Strategy for Barry R. > McCaffrey, the White House drug czar, said the fungus would not be > used here until it was tested in rigidly controlled >conditions at a Florida > site. > > "When you deal with science, you deal with the cost of advancing and > what is the cost of not advancing," said McDonough, who pointed out > that 47 percent of the marijuana seized in the United >States is taken here > -- and much of it is home-grown. Most years, drug agents >destroy more > than 100,000 plants, and one year, 1992, they destroyed more than > 240,000 plants. > > "With prudence and with care, make your choices," he said. > > McDonough said he has not yet presented the plan to Bush. > > But in Florida, a state that has seen its environment ravaged by > supposedly harmless plants that thrived so well in a damp, >hot climate > that they overwhelmed indigenous plants, some environmentalists say > introducing the fungus is risky, that it could mutate and >cause disease, not > only in wild plants but in crops as well. > > "I personally do not like the idea of messing with mother >nature," said Bill > Graves, senior biologist at the University of Florida >Research Center in > Homestead. "I believe that if this fungus is unleashed for >this kind of > problem, it's going to create its own problems. If it isn't executed > effectively, it's going to target and kill rare and >endangered plants." > > David Struhs, Secretary of the Florida Department of Environmental > Protection, spelled out the dangers in a letter to >McDonough dated April > 6, 1999. > > "Fusarium species," he wrote, "are capable of evolving rapidly. > Mutagenicity is by far the most disturbing factor in >attempting to use a > Fusarium species as a bioherbicide. > > "It is difficult, if not impossible," he wrote, "to >control the spread of > Fusarium species." > > The mutated fungi can cause disease in a large number of >crops, including > tomatoes, peppers, flowers, corn and vines, he wrote, and >are "normally > considered a threat to farmers as a pest, rather than as a >pesticide. > Fusarium species are more active in warm soils and can >stay resident in > the soil for years. Their longevity and enhanced activity >under Florida > conditions are of concern, as this could lead to an >increased risk of > mutagenicity." > > What that means, say environmentalists, is that it is hot >here much of the > time, and living things behave differently in Florida than >almost anywhere > else in this country. > > "In principle, I am very supportive of using biological >agents against > narcotic plants," said Raghavan Charudattan, professor of plant > pathology and weed science at the University of Florida. >"This needs to > be researched well or it could lead to great danger." > > State officials have agreed to quarantine testing of the >fungus -- at a > facility outside Gainesville usually used for, among other >things, studying > citrus canker, a catastrophic plant disease that has >ruined whole orchards > -- and for now any use of the fungus is probably years away. > > But McDonough has some powerful allies, including >Representative Bill > McCollum, a Republican from Longwood, Fla. McDonough is planning > to try to obtain part of a $23-million Congressional allocation for > research in eradicating plants like marijuana, and having >an ally like > McCollum, as well as some Republican fund-raisers who back the idea, > could be helpful. > > In Peru, angry farmers have recently accused the United >States of using a > soil fungus to destroy coca in the Upper Huallaga Valley, >saying that > fungus has spread to banana, yucca, tangerine and other food crops, > according to The Miami Herald. > > American officials, while acknowledging in June that they >had spent $14 > million on research to develop such biological agents >against poppy, coca > and marijuana, denied the charges. > > In Florida, history has taught scientists to be cautious >of introducing any > foreign, living thing into the environment. While pythons >as long as pickup > trucks have occasionally been found under houses in South >Florida, most > of the problems have been with vegetable matter. > > Kudzu, a Chinese vine that has grown rampant in the South since its > introduction in the 1920's to thwart soil erosion, has >swallowed houses > and acres of roadside in Florida, as it grows a foot a >day. Melaleuca > trees, planted decades ago to help drain the Everglades because they > suck up so much water, have infested hundreds of thousands of acres. > > Jerry Brooks, assistant director of the state Department >of Environmental > Protection's Division of Water Resources, said the >difference between > those plants and the fungus is that the state has learned >to be careful. > > "Mistakes made in the past," Brooks said, "make sure proper > precautions are being taken." > > "They were not tested," he said of the infamous plants. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 18:14:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06261 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA07685 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:36:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA07614 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.195] (st-ppp21.hevanet.com [198.5.254.195]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12961; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907272136.OAA12961@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:21:22 -0700 Subject: FW: New Pecan Tree Bears Fruit Every Year From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: NAFEX List , Tucker Hill , New Crops , SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1820 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Pecan Tree Bears Fruit Every Year Date: Tue, Jul 27, 1999, 8:19 AM STORY LEAD: New Pecan Tree Bears Fruit Every Year ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov July 27, 1999 ----------- Pecan lovers will appreciate the fruits of a new pecan variety that produces large nuts with halves that stay intact during shelling. Named "Hopi," the new variety was developed by U.S. Department of Agriculture researchers and the Texas Agricultural Experiment Station. Researchers with USDA's Agricultural Research Service developed Hopi from a cross between Schley, a commercially popular variety, and McCulley, a central Texas native variety. ARS is the chief research agency of USDA. Hopi's performance has been extensively tested and evaluated for 45 years. Yields from Hopi tree plantings are equal to Kanza and Creek, which were previously developed and released by ARS and cooperating state experiment stations. Hopi's strength is a uniform nut production from year to year, thus overcoming a main problem in pecan production: trees that bear fruit every other year. Pecans are a multimillion-dollar industry. Rural landowners in the southwest and southeast derive primary or supplemental income from growing pecan trees in orchards or woodland pastures. In 1998, U.S. pecan production was about 155 million pounds with a value of nearly $191 million. Georgia, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and Louisiana are the top five pecan-producing states. Annual fall nut shows are conducted in 100 of 214 Texas counties. This year, Hopi has been a consistent winner in Texas regional and county pecan shows. Budwood and graftwood from Hopi will be available to nurseries in February 2000. USDA does not distribute trees. Plants of this release will be deposited in the National Plant Germplasm System where they will be available for research purposes. ---------- Scientific contact: Tommy E. Thompson, ARS Crop Germplasm Research Unit, College Station, Texas; phone (409) 272-1402, fax (409) 272-1401, tet@tamu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 18:23:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06482 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11127 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:42:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA11037 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id QAA06809; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:42:14 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma005851; Tue, 27 Jul 99 16:41:23 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:41:23 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE51@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Lester Loam'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Negative people? I don't think so ... Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:41:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1821 Lester, >> This list is filled with negative people, apparently >> worshipping the coming apocalypse. > Most of the people on sanet and most in the sustainable > ag community are among the most positive people I know. > They don't worship the apocalypse. I meant in the context of genetic engineering, not in general. > I think that perhaps a decade ago, they were encouraged that > there appeared to be bridges to their sustainable vision. > But lately, very powerful forces appear to be trying to > slam the door shut on their vision. I wasn't very knowledgable about the sustainable agriculture movement ten years ago, but it seems like it's credibility and acceptance by the public have grown since then. What do think are the powerful forces trying to slam sustainable ag? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 20:19:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA08615 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA27370 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:37:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA27274 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool0107.cvx2-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.134.107]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PY26Y9TJ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:34:51 -0400 Message-ID: <379E460C.A5A3DADD@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:51:41 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: free range meats in california References: <199907272210.SAA28912@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1822 I am looking for pork, lamb and beef in Southern California- and i mean local, not whole foods - any one know of any phil To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 20:21:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA08646 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA26167 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:36:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA26052 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool0107.cvx2-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.134.107]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id PY26Y9TF; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:33:43 -0400 Message-ID: <379E45C8.568BD272@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:50:33 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1170 References: <199907272210.SAA28912@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1823 On the Cancer note, the ones that have risen the most regardless of smoking are the hormone related ones- ie breast cancer, prostate cancer and ovarian cancer- AND, as recently shown, areas with more herbicides and insecticides in the air have high rates of these (funny how the atrazine makers also make anti cancer drugs- coincidence? doubtful) phil To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 20:33:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA08753 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02438 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:47:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02351 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.11] (ppp-207-214-220-133.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.214.220.133]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10485 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:38:19 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Toxic algae Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1824 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ TOXIC ALGAE, ALLIGATOR & BIRD DEATHS - USA (FLORIDA) ******************************************* [1] Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:54:42 -0400 From: "Marjorie P. Pollack" Source: States News Service [edited] In Florida, University researchers' preliminary laboratory tests show mysterious bacteria in Florida Lakes. Researchers are unsure whether they are harmful to humans. But the bacteria are a strong suspect in several alligator deaths in Lake Griffin over the past 2 years. The one-celled bacteria are also reported in Lakes Yale, Harris and Eustis. *** [2] Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 From: *Marjorie P. Pollack* Source: Miami Herald and Associated Press [edited] The deaths of about 150 alligators in Lake Griffin over the past 2 years may have been caused by toxic algae. _Cylindrospermopsis_ spp, a green, slimy alga looks like harmless pond scum, but can release deadly toxins. The algae now cover almost all of Lake Griffin and have been found in 3 other Lake County lakes, a Seminole County lake and the St. Johns River. In the United States, the algae have previously been found in Kansas, Minnesota and Texas, but none of those cases involved dangerous toxins. [The algae only produce toxins under certain nutrient, and weather conditions, which may account for no reports of toxicities.] "As with many environmental issues involving microbes causing emerging problems, we don't pay much attention to them until they affect something we become concerned about,'' said Wayne Carmichael, a professor at Wright State University in Ohio who is studying the algae. A growing number of birds around Lake Griffin have shown symptoms similar to those of the dying alligators: lethargic behavior, convulsions and then death. If the algae aren't killing the alligators, scientists say, then the culprit is either a pesticide or an unknown virus. [Have any virus or bacteria isolations been done, or pesticide residues looked for in the alligator carcasses?] Lake Griffin has no public swimming beaches and fewer people are using it for water recreation because of deteriorating water quality. "Personally, I would not want to be drinking the water or eating the fish from there,'' said Donna Morris, a wildlife recovery specialist. - --- ProMED-mail [_Cylindrospermopsis_ spp. is one of many species of toxic algae or blue-green algae (commonly known as cyanobacteria, literally, blue-green bacteria) that can produce toxic water blooms. _Cylindrospermopsis_ spp. can produce a potent hepatotoxic (liver toxic) alkaloid called cylindrospermopsin. Poisoning usually does not occur unless there is a heavy waterbloom that forms a dense surface scum. Factors contributing to heavy waterblooms include nutrient-rich eutrophic or hypereutrophic water and warm, sunny weather. Some agricultural practices are thought to contribute to the nutrient enrichment and the waterbloom formation. Animal size and species sensitivity influences the degree of intoxication. Single stomach animals (monogastrics, ie, dogs, cats, etc) are less sensitive than ruminants (cows, deer etc) and birds. Apparently, alligators are sensitive to this species of toxic alga. Depending on bloom densities and toxin content, animals may need to ingest only a few ounces or up to several gallons to experience acute or lethal toxicity - Mod.TG] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 20:33:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA08761 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02440 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:47:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02380 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.11] (ppp-207-214-220-133.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.214.220.133]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10501 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:42:11 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Hantavirus, II Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1825 Howdy, all-- I am posting these hantavirus items in part because of the prevalence of mice, including deer mice, on many farms. Something to be aware of. I'm curious as to whether, with shifts in weather patterns and migrating droughts, the risk of such viruses might increase for those of us *not* in the U.S. Southwest. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HANTAVIRUS PULMONARY SYNDROME - USA (ARIZONA) (02) ************************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 23:20:17 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: The Arizona Republic A Coconino County man is being treated in a New Mexico hospital for a hantavirus infection, the third recognized case of hantavirus pulmonary syndrome (HPS) reported in Arizona this year. The 43-year-old man arrived at the hospital Wednesday. He was in serious but improving condition, according to hospital spokesman Greg Johnston. The man is the second Coconino County resident to contract [Sin Nombre virus] this year. The other man, a Parks resident, recovered. The third Arizona victim was an Apache County woman who died of the disease. University Hospital has developed an expertise in treating hantavirus cases, an often deadly respiratory illness that most often occurs in the Southwest. "The hospital has treated more hantavirus patients than any other hospital in the country," Johnston said. The hospital has used an experimental treatment called ECMO [extra-corporeal membrane oxygenation] for many patients, but the last 4 patients have not needed the procedure, he said. ECMO is typically used for babies with respiratory problems. A machine circulates and adds oxygen to a person's blood, doing what the heart and lungs may be too crippled to handle. The hospital has treated 11 hantavirus patients this year - 7 from New Mexico, 3 from Arizona and one from Colorado. In all, there have been 14 cases of hantavirus this year in Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado and Utah. - -- ProMED-mail [Make that 15 cases; there was another last week in the Durango, Colorado, area, very near our study site. We are seeing many more deer mice than we have ever seen there and, along with high prevalence of antibody to Sin Nombre virus, this makes for a potentially dangerous situation. Two of the recent cases have been quite mild and have not been classified as being HPS but "hantavirus infections". - Mod CHC] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 20:41:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA08865 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02407 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:47:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02329 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.11] (ppp-207-214-220-133.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.214.220.133]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10465 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:35:48 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Hantavirus mortality/Manitoba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1826 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HANTAVIRUS PULMONARY SYNDROME - CANADA (MANITOBA) ************************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 01:42:51 -0400 From: "Marjorie P. Pollack" Source: The Western Producer 22 Jul 1999 [edited] http://www.producer.com/articles/19990722/news/19990722news04.html Manitoba woman dies from hantavirus - ------------------------------- Hantavirus, a rare illness spread by deer mice, has claimed its first Manitoba victim. After five days of flu-like symptoms, a 27-year-old woman from southwestern Manitoba checked into the Brandon General Hospital on 5 Jul 1999. She had difficulty breathing. Within 6 hours, she died. Hantavirus was confirmed as the cause of her death on 9 Jul 1999. Susan Roberecki, acting chief medical officer of health for Manitoba, said she does not yet know how the woman contracted the disease. The department will spend the next couple of weeks tracing the woman's activities to find out where and how she may have come into contact with the disease. They will trap mice in the area to see whether they carry hantavirus. Elise Weiss, medical officer of health for Brandon, said the woman's family and friends so far do not appear to have any symptoms of the disease. Roberecki said hantavirus is not contagious, and cannot be spread from pets to livestock. "It's not a panic situation," said Roberecki. "This has been around for a long time. This is a rare disease." However, she said people who live or work in places where there are mice should be careful and wear protective clothing and masks when cleaning up rodent urine, feces or nests. People who develop flu-like symptoms, such as fever, headache, nausea, vomiting, muscle aches and shortness of breath within 6 weeks of being exposed to mice droppings may want to see a doctor. Hantavirus infection was first identified in the southern United States in 1993. Since 1994, 32 cases have been confirmed in Canada. Twelve of those people died. Most of the cases have been in Alberta. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 20:42:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA08878 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02457 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:47:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02409 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.11] (ppp-207-214-220-133.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.214.220.133]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10524 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:45:46 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Johnes disease in sheep/Oz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA02424 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1827 Howdy, all-- This interested me because of the observation re: using cattle in a decontamination program for sheep. TTMI. peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JOHNES DISEASE, SHEEP - AUSTRALIA ********************************* A ProMED-mail post Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:11:22 -0400 From: "Marjorie P. Pollack" Source: Australia Broadcasting Network: Tuesday 20 July, 1999 (1:41pm AEST) [edited] http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news_states/nrn/nrn-20jul1999-6.htm Tests Confirm Cattle Strain of Johnes Disease in Sheep - ----------------------------------------------------- Strain testing of South Australia's only confirmed mainland case of Johnes Disease in sheep has revealed the mid north property carries not Ovine - but Bovine Johnes Disease. The Woolana Stud at Mount Bryan has become the third property in the country to confirm sheep with the cattle strain of Johnes. Greg Johnson from the Kangaroo Island Ovine Johnes Action group, says strain testing of sheep under the Johnes Market Assurance program should become compulsory. If sheep can catch Bovine Johnes disease, destocking and replacing them with cattle may not be the best course of action. Greg Johnson said, "Using cattle for any sort of a decontamination program in destock properties might be a difficult thing to do because it's possible the contamination of the pasture with cattle strains of Johnes disease could result in disease and further contamination in those cattle during the supposed decontamination period. The other issue is it means the whole definition and the way that Johnes disease is viewed in the country needs to be seriously examined and changed." - --- ProMED-mail [Although previous titles on ProMED-mail have read "Ovine-Johnes," I think the correct term should be "Johnes Disease, Sheep," or "Johnes Disease, Ovine." Johnes is NOT just a bovine disease. Johnes Disease is caused by _Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis_, formerly known as _M paratuberculosis_. Paratuberculosis is a chronic, contagious enteritis, characterized by progressive, and persistent diarrhea, debilitation, weight loss, and eventually death. It affects, cattle, sheep, goats, llamas, camels, farmed deer, and other domestic, exotic and wild ruminants. It has ben recognized in wild rabbits, too. Horses and pigs have been infected experimentally, only. The distribution of this disease is worldwide. Crohns disease is a chronic enteritis in man. There is conflicting data on the involvement of the causative organism in Crohns disease. Therefore, animals with paratuberculosis should be considered as potential zoonotic risks until the situation with Crohns disease is clarified. Johnes Disease is characterized by weight loss and diarrhea, but initially the signs are vague and variable. Diarrhea may be intermittent, is typically thick, does not contain blood or mucus. The diarrhea becomes more severe over weeks or months and there is further weight loss. Dairy animals have a drop in milk production. The disease is progressive and terminates in emaciation and death. There is not single, good diagnostic test. A combination of tests is often used. Diagnosis is easier on a group of animals than a single animal. Fecal culture is specific, but not highly sensitive because the organisms are shed intermittently. Serological tests vary in sensitivity and specificity and are poor at identifying sub clinical cases. There is no known treatment for paratuberculosis. Control requires good sanitation and management. There is a vaccine used in some countries, and subject to approval by regulatory agencies and restricted to infected herds. Vaccines and diagnostic tests are limited in efficacy. Calfhood (less than 1 month of age) vaccination can be effective in reducing disease incidence but does not eliminate the infection. Cattle inoculated with the inactivated, whole-cell, mineral-oil vaccine develop granulomas, up to several cm in diameter, at the site of inoculation, which is usually the brisket. These vaccines may cause the cattle to react positively on subsequent tuberculin test. Accidental self-inoculation can result in severe acute reactions with sloughing and chronic synovitis and tendinitis. Vaccination does not eliminate the need for good sanitation and management - Mod.TG] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 21:46:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA09585 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA24787 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:24:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA24743 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:24:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP140.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.204]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01364 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379E4E64.A09A2745@sprintmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:27:17 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Cancer and free PR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------96D7FCE74E5F40C6659D382A" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1828 --------------96D7FCE74E5F40C6659D382A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen, Below is the whole "Rachel's" I referred to earlier. Dale wrote earlier: >As you requested from Bargyla, "let's see the data." Once you eliminate the >effects of smoking and longevity, most cancer rates have stayed the same. How does Dale explain this, for instance: "Between 1973 and 1991, the incidence of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma increased at the rate of 3.3% per year in the U.S., making it the third fastest-growing cancer (after prostate cancer, growing at 3.9% per year, and melanoma of the skin, also growing at 3.9% per year)." (from the article below) Also, If one half of the present population is predicted to have cancer, is this not an increase? I think that Dale has shown his true colors with this latest smoke screen. So, Dale, are you paid by Pioneer (soon to be Pioneer/ Dupont) as a PR agent to spread misinformation or do you do it for free? Since your posts are sent during "normal business hours," we can conclude 1 of 4 things: 1. You are paid for putting out misinformation by Pioneer 2. You're not paid, but get a wink & nod of approval from Pioneer for doing it. 3. Your employer doesn't know you're doing it and you're screwing off on Pioneer's time. 4. You don't really work for Pioneer. Alex Just another negative voice =======================Electronic Edition======================== . . . RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #660 . . ---July 22, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . PESTICIDES IN THE NEWS . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org . . ========== . . All back issues are available by E-mail: send E-mail to . . info@rachel.org with the single word HELP in the message. . . Back issues are also available from http://www.rachel.org. . . To start your own free subscription, send E-mail to . . listserv@rachel.org with the words . . SUBSCRIBE RACHEL-WEEKLY YOUR NAME in the message. . . The Rachel newsletter is now also available in Spanish; . . to learn how to subscribe, send the word AYUDA in an . . E-mail message to info@rachel.org. . ================================================================= PESTICIDES IN THE NEWS Pesticides continue to produce unpleasant surprises around the world. ** In April, researchers in Switzerland announced that much of the rain falling on Europe contains such high levels of pesticides that rainwater would be illegal if it were supplied as drinking water.[1] Rain over Europe is laced with atrazine, alochlor and other common agricultural poisons sprayed onto crops. The European Union has set a drinking water standard of 100 nanograms per liter for any individual pesticide. Stephan Muller at the Swiss federal Institute for Environmental Science and Technology in Dubendorf reported finding one sample of rain containing 4000 nanograms per liter of 2,4-dinitrophenol, a common pesticide (not to be confused with the weed killer 2,4-D). Muller had previously studied samples of rain from 41 storms over Europe and found Atrazine at levels exceeding 100 nanograms per liter in 9 of them. A 1999 study of rainfall in Greece found one or more pesticides in 90% of 205 samples taken. Atrazine was measurable in 30% of the 205 samples.[2] Atrazine is a weed killer used on 96% of the U.S. corn crop each year. Introduced in 1958, some 68 to 73 million pounds were used in the U.S. in 1995, making it the best-selling pesticide in the nation. Atrazine interferes with the hormone systems of mammals. In female rats, it causes tumors of the mammary glands, uterus, and ovaries. Two studies have suggested that it causes ovarian cancer in humans. EPA [U.S. Environmental Protection Agency] categorizes it as a "possible human carcinogen." Atrazine is found in much of the drinking water in the midwestern U.S., and it is measurable in corn, milk, beef and other foods. (See REHW #553.) ** Last March, well-known Swedish scientists Lennart Hardell and Mikael Eriksson published a case-control study (404 cases and 741 controls) showing once again that non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) is linked to pesticide exposures. Hardell and Eriksson published their first study linking phenoxy herbicides to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) in 1981.[3] Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) is a group of cancers that arise in the white blood cells. NHL is increasing rapidly in the U.S. and elsewhere in the industrialized world. Between 1973 and 1991, the incidence of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma increased at the rate of 3.3% per year in the U.S., making it the third fastest-growing cancer (after prostate cancer, growing at 3.9% per year, and melanoma of the skin, also growing at 3.9% per year).[4] In Sweden, the incidence of NHL has increased at the rate of 3.6% per year in men and 2.9% per year in women since 1958. In recent years, AIDS patients have contributed to the increase in NHL, but a steady rise in the incidence of this disease was apparent long before the AIDS epidemic. Together the known "risk factors" for NHL --including immune-suppressing drugs, rare immune-system diseases, and AIDS, explain only a small proportion of NHL cases. One of the herbicides linked to NHL by the most recent Hardell study is glyphosate, sold by Monsanto under the trade name Roundup. A previous study of human subjects in 1998 had implicated Roundup in hairy cell leukemia (cancer of the blood-forming organs), a rare kind of NHL.[5] Several animal studies have shown that Roundup can cause gene mutations and chromosomal aberrations.[3] The use of Roundup is expected to increase substantially in the next few years because several of Monsanto's genetically engineered crops (such as potatoes and corn) are "Roundup Ready" which means they have been specifically designed to withstand a thorough dousing by Roundup. The goal is to create crops that are not affected by Roundup so that unusually large quantities of Roundup can be applied to eradicate weeds without harming the crop. Roundup is Monsanto's most profitable product. (See REHW #637, #638, #639.) ** Last month, researchers in the U.S. and Canada announced that they had measured pesticides in the amniotic fluid of 30% of a sample of 9 pregnant women in Los Angeles, California.[4] A baby growing in the womb floats in amniotic fluid for 9 months before birth. The particular pesticide found in amniotic fluid -- p,p'-DDE -- is a breakdown byproduct of DDT and is known to interfere with male sexual development by de-activating the male sex hormone, testosterone. Until now, pesticides had not been measured in amniotic fluid. The unpublished study of pesticides in amniotic fluid was reported at the 81st annual meeting of the Endocrine Society in San Diego, California, in June.[6] The researchers released a statement in San Diego saying, "The concentrations of p,p'-DDE found (range of 0.01 to 0.63 nanograms per milliliter [parts per billion]) are sufficient to cause concern, since the levels measured are in the same range as some steroids [hormones] which occur naturally in the fetus at the same time of development." The statement also said, "Of the various health problems associated with these chemicals, developmental abnormalities of the male reproductive tract, suppression of immune function, development of the brain and neurobehavioral problems in children are of major concern because they are potentially avoidable and irreversible." One of the authors of the study, Siu Chan of the University of Calgary in Canada, told NEW SCIENTIST magazine that researchers cannot be sure that DDE would have any affect on babies exposed continuously in the womb.[7] But Chan pointed out that alligators were harmed by exposure to a similar chemical in Florida after a chemical spill. "In males, the penis was much smaller than normal," Chan said. (See REHW #372.) Several studies of laboratory animals have confirmed that DDE can interfere with normal sexual development of males and can cause enlarged prostate glands.[8,9] ** A study published in May in ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVES, a U.S. government science journal, makes the case that insecticides sprayed on forests in eastern Canada in the mid-1970s led to a dramatic decline in the population of Atlantic Salmon (45% reduction in small salmon, 77% reduction in large salmon).[10] Salmon are born in fresh water but after 2 or 3 years they undergo physical changes called "smoltification," after which they move downstream into salt water. Smoltification is controlled by hormones. Researchers believe the pesticide interfered with the hormones of the salmon, somehow disrupting smoltification, leading to the loss of large numbers of fish. The pesticide in question was called Matacil 1.8D. The "active ingredient" in Matacil 1.8D is aminocarb, which makes up about 25% of the insecticide by weight. The other 75% of Matacil 1.8D is an "inert ingredient" called 4-nonylphenol (4-NP for short). In laboratory tests, 4-NP is anything but inert. It is a powerful hormone disrupter. The authors of the study point out that many U.S. streams contain levels of hormone-disrupting chemicals comparable to the levels that they believe wiped out so many Atlantic salmon. (See REHW #545.) ** Consumer's Union, publisher of CONSUMER REPORTS magazine announced last February that many U.S. fruits and vegetables carry pesticide residues that exceed the limits that EPA considers safe for children. "Using U.S. Department of Agriculture statistics based on 27,000 food samples from 1994 to 1997, the magazine looked at foods children are most likely to eat," the NEW YORK TIMES reported.[11] "Almost all the foods tested for pesticide residues were within legal limits, but were frequently well above the levels the Environmental Protection Agency says are safe for young children. According to the Consumer's Union Report, even one serving of some fruits and vegetables can exceed safe daily limits for young children," the TIMES reported. "Methyl parathion accounts for most of the total toxicity on the foods that were analyzed, particularly peaches, frozen and canned green beans, pears and apples. Late last year [EPA] said that methyl parathion posed an 'unacceptable risk' but that it had not taken any action to ban it or reduce its use. Organophosphates [such as methyl parathion] are neurological poisons and work the same on humans as they do on insects," the TIMES said. One of the main aims of the CONSUMER REPORTS study was to compare pesticide levels on U.S.-grown foods vs. imported foods. In almost every case imported foods had lower levels of pesticides and/or less toxic pesticides than U.S.-grown foods. In sum, many of us are being exposed -- without our informed consent -- to industrial poisons starting in the womb, then in our food and water more or less continuously throughout childhood and into adulthood. Wildlife are being continuously exposed as well. Many of these substances interfere with mental and sexual development and can cause learning disorders and violent behavior. (See REHW #529, #551, and #648.) Science has no way of assessing what effects combinations of these poisons will have. Yet risk assessors working for the poisoners, and their apologists in government, make a good living manipulating mathematical models to "prove" that all of this is acceptably safe. They are the conductors keeping the trains running on time to Auschwitz, just doing their jobs. But of course the owners of the trains are the industrial poisoners and the political representatives they own. It boils down to this: we must get private money out of our elections so that we can choose political representatives who are not in the pockets of the poisoners. Until that happens, the poisoning will continue. [1] Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie, "It's raining pesticides; The water falling from our skies is unfit to drink," NEW SCIENTIST April 3, 1999, pg. 23. See www.newscientist.com/ns/- 19990403/newsstory12.html . [2] Emmanouil Charizopoulos and Euphemia Papadopoulou-Mourkidou, "Occurrence of Pesticides in Rain of the Axios River Basin, Greece," ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY [ES&T] Vol. 33, No. 14 (July 15, 1999), pgs. 2363-2368. [3] Lennart Hardell and Mikael Eriksson, "A Case-Control Study of Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Exposure to Pesticides," CANCER Vol. 85, No. 6 (March 15, 1999), pgs. 1353-1360. [4] Angela Harras and others, editors, CANCER RATES AND RISKS 4TH EDITION [NIH Publication No. 96-691] (Bethesda, Maryland: National Cancer Institute, 1996), pg. 17. [5] M. Nordstrom and others, "Occupational exposures, animal exposure, and smoking as risk factors for hairy cell leukaemia evaluated in a case-control study," BRITISH JOURNAL OF CANCER Vol. 77 (1998), pgs. 2048-2052. [6] Warren Foster, Siu Chan, Lawrence Platt, and Claude Hughes, "[P3-357] In utero exposure of the human fetus to xenobiotic endocrine disrupting chemicals: Detection of organochlorine compounds in samples of second trimester human amniotic fluid [abstract presented June 14, 1999 at the Endocrine Society's 81st Annual Meeting in San Diego, California]." Available from The Endocrine Society, 4350 East West Highway, Suite 500, Bethesda, MD 20814-4426. See also, "P3-357 Lay explanation of abstract" also available from the Endocrine Society. [7] Alison Motluk, "Bad for the Boys," NEW SCIENTIST June 26, 1999, pg. 15. [8] L. You and others, "Impaired male sexual development in perinatal Sprague-Dawley and Long-Evans hooded rats exposed in utero and lactationally to p,p'-DDE," TOXICOLOGICAL SCIENCES [ISSN 1096-6080] Vol. 45, No. 2 (October 1998), pgs. 162-173. [9] I.K. Loeffler and R.E. Peterson, "Interactive effects of TCDD and p,p'-DDE on male reproductive tract development in in utero and lactationally exposed rats," TOXICOLOGY AND APPLIED PHARMACOLOGY Vol. 154, No. 1 (January 1, 1999), pgs. 28-39. [10] Wayne L. Fairchild and others, "Does an Association between Pesticide Use and Subsequent Declines in Catch of Atlantic Salmon (SALMO SALAR) Represent a Case of Endocrine Disruption?" ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVES Vol. 107, No. 5 (May 1999), pgs. 349-357. [11] Marian Burros, "High Pesticide Levels Seen in U.S. Food," NEW YORK TIMES February 19, 1999, pg. unknown. See http://- archives.nytimes.com . Descriptor terms: pesticides; agriculture; atrazine; switzerland; sweden; ;ennart hardell; non-hodgkin's ;ymphoma; phenoxy herbicides; herbicides; roundup; glyphosate; biotech; amniotic fluid; dde; ddt; p,p'-dde; salmon; fish; wildlife; matacil 1.8d; methyl parathion; consumer's union; food safety; children's health; ################################################################ NOTICE In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107 this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving it for research and educational purposes. Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge even though it costs the organization considerable time and money to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do not send credit card information via E-mail. For further information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F. by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944. --Peter Montague, Editor --------------96D7FCE74E5F40C6659D382A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen,

    Below is the whole "Rachel's" I referred to earlier.

    Dale wrote earlier:
    >As you requested from Bargyla, "let's see the data."  Once you eliminate the
    >effects of smoking and longevity, most cancer rates have stayed the same.

    How does Dale explain this, for instance:
    "Between 1973 and 1991, the incidence of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma increased at the rate of 3.3% per year in the U.S., making it the third fastest-growing cancer (after prostate cancer, growing at 3.9% per year, and melanoma of the skin, also growing at 3.9% per year)." (from the article below)

    Also, If one half of the present population is predicted to have cancer, is this not an increase? I think that Dale has shown his true colors with this latest smoke screen. So, Dale, are you paid by Pioneer (soon to be Pioneer/ Dupont) as a PR agent to spread misinformation or do you do it for free? Since your posts are sent during "normal business hours," we can conclude 1 of 4 things:

    1. You are paid for putting out misinformation by Pioneer
    2. You're not paid, but get a wink & nod of approval from Pioneer for doing it.
    3. Your employer doesn't know you're doing it and you're screwing off on Pioneer's time.
    4. You don't really work for Pioneer.

    Alex
    Just another negative voice

    =======================Electronic Edition========================
    .                                                               .
    .           RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #660           .
    .                      ---July 22, 1999---                      .
    .                          HEADLINES:                           .
    .                    PESTICIDES IN THE NEWS                     .
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    =================================================================
     

    PESTICIDES IN THE NEWS

    Pesticides continue to produce unpleasant surprises around the
    world.

    ** In April, researchers in Switzerland announced that much of
    the rain falling on Europe contains such high levels of
    pesticides that rainwater would be illegal if it were supplied
    as drinking water.[1] Rain over Europe is laced with atrazine,
    alochlor and other common agricultural poisons sprayed onto
    crops.

    The European Union has set a drinking water standard of 100
    nanograms per liter for any individual pesticide. Stephan
    Muller at the Swiss federal Institute for Environmental
    Science and Technology in Dubendorf reported finding one sample
    of rain containing 4000 nanograms per liter of
    2,4-dinitrophenol, a common pesticide (not to be confused with
    the weed killer 2,4-D).

    Muller had previously studied samples of rain from 41 storms
    over Europe and found Atrazine at levels exceeding 100 nanograms
    per liter in 9 of them. A 1999 study of rainfall in Greece found
    one or more pesticides in 90% of 205 samples taken. Atrazine was
    measurable in 30% of the 205 samples.[2]

    Atrazine is a weed killer used on 96% of the U.S. corn crop each
    year. Introduced in 1958, some 68 to 73 million pounds were used
    in the U.S. in 1995, making it the best-selling pesticide in the
    nation. Atrazine interferes with the hormone systems of mammals.
    In female rats, it causes tumors of the mammary glands, uterus,
    and ovaries. Two studies have suggested that it causes ovarian
    cancer in humans. EPA [U.S. Environmental Protection Agency]
    categorizes it as a "possible human carcinogen." Atrazine is
    found in much of the drinking water in the midwestern U.S., and
    it is measurable in corn, milk, beef and other foods. (See REHW
    #553.)

    ** Last March, well-known Swedish scientists Lennart Hardell and
    Mikael Eriksson published a case-control study (404 cases and
    741 controls) showing once again that non-Hodgkin's lymphoma
    (NHL) is linked to pesticide exposures. Hardell and Eriksson
    published their first study linking phenoxy herbicides to
    non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) in 1981.[3]

    Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) is a group of cancers that arise in
    the white blood cells. NHL is increasing rapidly in the U.S. and
    elsewhere in the industrialized world.

    Between 1973 and 1991, the incidence of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma
    increased at the rate of 3.3% per year in the U.S., making it
    the third fastest-growing cancer (after prostate cancer, growing
    at 3.9% per year, and melanoma of the skin, also growing at 3.9%
    per year).[4] In Sweden, the incidence of NHL has increased at
    the rate of 3.6% per year in men and 2.9% per year in women
    since 1958.

    In recent years, AIDS patients have contributed to the increase
    in NHL, but a steady rise in the incidence of this disease was
    apparent long before the AIDS epidemic. Together the known "risk
    factors" for NHL --including immune-suppressing drugs, rare
    immune-system diseases, and AIDS, explain only a small
    proportion of NHL cases.

    One of the herbicides linked to NHL by the most recent Hardell
    study is glyphosate, sold by Monsanto under the trade name
    Roundup. A previous study of human subjects in 1998 had
    implicated Roundup in hairy cell leukemia (cancer of the
    blood-forming organs), a rare kind of NHL.[5] Several animal
    studies have shown that Roundup can cause gene mutations and
    chromosomal aberrations.[3]

    The use of Roundup is expected to increase substantially in the
    next few years because several of Monsanto's genetically
    engineered crops (such as potatoes and corn) are "Roundup Ready"
    which means they have been specifically designed to withstand a
    thorough dousing by Roundup. The goal is to create crops that
    are not affected by Roundup so that unusually large quantities
    of Roundup can be applied to eradicate weeds without harming the
    crop. Roundup is Monsanto's most profitable product. (See REHW
    #637, #638, #639.)

    ** Last month, researchers in the U.S. and Canada announced that
    they had measured pesticides in the amniotic fluid of 30% of a
    sample of 9 pregnant women in Los Angeles, California.[4] A baby
    growing in the womb floats in amniotic fluid for 9 months before
    birth.

    The particular pesticide found in amniotic fluid -- p,p'-DDE --
    is a breakdown byproduct of DDT and is known to interfere with
    male sexual development by de-activating the male sex hormone,
    testosterone. Until now, pesticides had not been measured in
    amniotic fluid.

    The unpublished study of pesticides in amniotic fluid was
    reported at the 81st annual meeting of the Endocrine Society in
    San Diego, California, in June.[6] The researchers released a
    statement in San Diego saying, "The concentrations of p,p'-DDE
    found (range of 0.01 to 0.63 nanograms per milliliter [parts per
    billion]) are sufficient to cause concern, since the levels
    measured are in the same range as some steroids [hormones] which
    occur naturally in the fetus at the same time of development."
    The statement also said, "Of the various health problems
    associated with these chemicals, developmental abnormalities of
    the male reproductive tract, suppression of immune function,
    development of the brain and neurobehavioral problems in
    children are of major concern because they are potentially
    avoidable and irreversible."

    One of the authors of the study, Siu Chan of the University of
    Calgary in Canada, told NEW SCIENTIST magazine that researchers
    cannot be sure that DDE would have any affect on babies exposed
    continuously in the womb.[7] But Chan pointed out that
    alligators were harmed by exposure to a similar chemical in
    Florida after a chemical spill. "In males, the penis was much
    smaller than normal," Chan said. (See REHW #372.) Several
    studies of laboratory animals have confirmed that DDE can
    interfere with normal sexual development of males and can cause
    enlarged prostate glands.[8,9]

    ** A study published in May in ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH
    PERSPECTIVES, a U.S. government science journal, makes the case
    that insecticides sprayed on forests in eastern Canada in the
    mid-1970s led to a dramatic decline in the population of
    Atlantic Salmon (45% reduction in small salmon, 77% reduction in
    large salmon).[10] Salmon are born in fresh water but after 2
    or 3 years they undergo physical changes called
    "smoltification," after which they move downstream into salt
    water. Smoltification is controlled by hormones. Researchers
    believe the pesticide interfered with the hormones of the
    salmon, somehow disrupting smoltification, leading to the loss
    of large numbers of fish.

    The pesticide in question was called Matacil 1.8D. The "active
    ingredient" in Matacil 1.8D is aminocarb, which makes up about
    25% of the insecticide by weight. The other 75% of Matacil 1.8D
    is an "inert ingredient" called 4-nonylphenol (4-NP for short).
    In laboratory tests, 4-NP is anything but inert. It is a
    powerful hormone disrupter.

    The authors of the study point out that many U.S. streams
    contain levels of hormone-disrupting chemicals comparable to the
    levels that they believe wiped out so many Atlantic salmon. (See
    REHW #545.)

    ** Consumer's Union, publisher of CONSUMER REPORTS magazine
    announced last February that many U.S. fruits and vegetables
    carry pesticide residues that exceed the limits that EPA
    considers safe for children. "Using U.S. Department of
    Agriculture statistics based on 27,000 food samples from 1994 to
    1997, the magazine looked at foods children are most likely to
    eat," the NEW YORK TIMES reported.[11] "Almost all the foods
    tested for pesticide residues were within legal limits, but were
    frequently well above the levels the Environmental Protection
    Agency says are safe for young children. According to the
    Consumer's Union Report, even one serving of some fruits and
    vegetables can exceed safe daily limits for young children," the
    TIMES reported.

    "Methyl parathion accounts for most of the total toxicity on the
    foods that were analyzed, particularly peaches, frozen and
    canned green beans, pears and apples. Late last year [EPA] said
    that methyl parathion posed an 'unacceptable risk' but that it
    had not taken any action to ban it or reduce its use.
    Organophosphates [such as methyl parathion] are neurological
    poisons and work the same on humans as they do on insects," the
    TIMES said.

    One of the main aims of the CONSUMER REPORTS study was to
    compare pesticide levels on U.S.-grown foods vs. imported foods.
    In almost every case imported foods had lower levels of
    pesticides and/or less toxic pesticides than U.S.-grown foods.

    In sum, many of us are being exposed -- without our informed
    consent -- to industrial poisons starting in the womb, then in
    our food and water more or less continuously throughout
    childhood and into adulthood. Wildlife are being continuously
    exposed as well. Many of these substances interfere with mental
    and sexual development and can cause learning disorders and
    violent behavior. (See REHW #529, #551, and #648.) Science has
    no way of assessing what effects combinations of these poisons
    will have.

    Yet risk assessors working for the poisoners, and their
    apologists in government, make a good living manipulating
    mathematical models to "prove" that all of this is acceptably
    safe. They are the conductors keeping the trains running on time
    to Auschwitz, just doing their jobs.

    But of course the owners of the trains are the industrial
    poisoners and the political representatives they own.

    It boils down to this: we must get private money out of our
    elections so that we can choose political representatives who
    are not in the pockets of the poisoners. Until that happens, the
    poisoning will continue.

    [1] Fred Pearce and Debora Mackenzie, "It's raining pesticides;
    The water falling from our skies is unfit to drink," NEW
    SCIENTIST April 3, 1999, pg. 23. See www.newscientist.com/ns/-
    19990403/newsstory12.html .

    [2] Emmanouil Charizopoulos and Euphemia Papadopoulou-Mourkidou,
    "Occurrence of Pesticides in Rain of the Axios River Basin,
    Greece," ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY [ES&T] Vol. 33, No.
    14 (July 15, 1999), pgs. 2363-2368.

    [3] Lennart Hardell and Mikael Eriksson, "A Case-Control Study
    of Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma and Exposure to Pesticides," CANCER Vol.
    85, No. 6 (March 15, 1999), pgs. 1353-1360.

    [4] Angela Harras and others, editors, CANCER RATES AND RISKS
    4TH EDITION [NIH Publication No. 96-691] (Bethesda, Maryland:
    National Cancer Institute, 1996), pg. 17.

    [5] M. Nordstrom and others, "Occupational exposures, animal
    exposure, and smoking as risk factors for hairy cell leukaemia
    evaluated in a case-control study," BRITISH JOURNAL OF CANCER
    Vol. 77 (1998), pgs. 2048-2052.

    [6] Warren Foster, Siu Chan, Lawrence Platt, and Claude Hughes,
    "[P3-357] In utero exposure of the human fetus to xenobiotic
    endocrine disrupting chemicals: Detection of organochlorine
    compounds in samples of second trimester human amniotic fluid
    [abstract presented June 14, 1999 at the Endocrine
    Society's 81st Annual Meeting in San Diego, California]."
    Available from The Endocrine Society, 4350 East West Highway,
    Suite 500, Bethesda, MD 20814-4426. See also, "P3-357 Lay
    explanation of abstract" also available from the Endocrine
    Society.

    [7] Alison Motluk, "Bad for the Boys," NEW SCIENTIST June 26,
    1999, pg. 15.

    [8] L. You and others, "Impaired male sexual development in
    perinatal Sprague-Dawley and Long-Evans hooded rats exposed in
    utero and lactationally to p,p'-DDE," TOXICOLOGICAL SCIENCES
    [ISSN 1096-6080] Vol. 45, No. 2 (October 1998), pgs. 162-173.

    [9] I.K. Loeffler and R.E. Peterson, "Interactive effects of
    TCDD and p,p'-DDE on male reproductive tract development in in
    utero and lactationally exposed rats," TOXICOLOGY AND APPLIED
    PHARMACOLOGY Vol. 154, No. 1 (January 1, 1999), pgs. 28-39.

    [10] Wayne L. Fairchild and others, "Does an Association between
    Pesticide Use and Subsequent Declines in Catch of Atlantic
    Salmon (SALMO SALAR) Represent a Case of Endocrine Disruption?"
    ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVES Vol. 107, No. 5 (May 1999),
    pgs. 349-357.

    [11] Marian Burros, "High Pesticide Levels Seen in U.S. Food,"
    NEW YORK TIMES February 19, 1999, pg. unknown. See http://-
    archives.nytimes.com .

    Descriptor terms: pesticides; agriculture; atrazine; switzerland;
    sweden; ;ennart hardell; non-hodgkin's ;ymphoma; phenoxy
    herbicides; herbicides; roundup; glyphosate; biotech; amniotic
    fluid; dde; ddt; p,p'-dde; salmon; fish; wildlife; matacil 1.8d;
    methyl parathion; consumer's union; food safety; children's health;
     

    ################################################################
                                 NOTICE
    In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107 this material is
    distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior
    interest in receiving it for research and educational purposes.
    Environmental Research Foundation provides this electronic
    version of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY free of charge
    even though it costs the organization considerable time and money
    to produce it. We would like to continue to provide this service
    free. You could help by making a tax-deductible contribution
    (anything you can afford, whether $5.00 or $500.00). Please send
    your tax-deductible contribution to: Environmental Research
    Foundation, P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403-7036. Please do
    not send credit card information via E-mail. For further
    information about making tax-deductible contributions to E.R.F.
    by credit card please phone us toll free at 1-888-2RACHEL, or at
    (410) 263-1584, or fax us at (410) 263-8944.
      --Peter Montague, Editor
     
     
      --------------96D7FCE74E5F40C6659D382A-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Jul 27 23:26:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA11101 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA26473 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:45:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA26404 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.214.220.208] (ppp-207-214-220-208.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.214.220.208]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08070 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:41:38 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: ABCNews.com/Farm Crisis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1829 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you: http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/farmcrisis990721.html Not, all in all, a terrible story, for something from a major news source. For example, I think it lays out the market-playing aspect of commodity-based farming quite well. However I notice that, yet again, the "crisis" is viewed as whether the farmer will be forced off that land--a tragedy, yes, but one that few consumers can relate to, particularly those who were driven of their own land a year, a decade, or a generation or more ago. Commenting upon the tears in the farmer's eyes is a nice piece of sentiment, but doesn't offer much by way of social action. Nor does it tie that individual's struggle to larger issues, like how farmland loss and falling crop prices will affect everyone. There is a clickable link at the above story to the journalist's e-mail. I encourage us all to read the story and send her POSITIVE and PROACTIVE thoughts. Like thanking her for covering the story...and using this as a teachable moment about sustainable ag, about successful farmers who aren't tied to the commodity markets as tightly as conventional cash grain folks are, etc. What say? peace misha A study in the Washington Post says that women have better verbal skills than men. I just want to say to the authors of that study: Duh. - Conan O'Brien To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 00:44:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA12443 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA09120 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA09113 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA15663 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11839; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA15669; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:53:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Beth Lischeron cc: sanet Subject: Re: Jojoba/Patchouli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1830 On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Beth Lischeron wrote: > Does anyone have or know of: > > a) sources for pure jojoba oil? > b) info on patchouli essential oil (or any other EE) for use in pest control > +/or as personal insect repellent? Try Frontier Herbs (a cooperative seeling to many natural foods stores, including Whole Foods). To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 00:48:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA12470 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:48:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA11432 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:01:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA11363 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:01:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.40] [199.175.106.43] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m119KtO-0006d7C for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:00:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:02:34 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1167 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1831 Dale Wilson, The transistor is not a good analogy, there were never worrisome outsomes, a better analogy would be atomic/nuclear power, a technology which becaue the crude science of it was possible we had to do it, the politicians fell all over themselves to get in line as the scientists held out to them the wonders and benefits to mankind. There were naysayers, many with reasoned arguments, but the bureaucratic/scientific establishment rolled over them and the media were enthralled with the promises of the new priestly class. I am not opposed to genetic engineering, I am opposed to taking stupid chances, of rushing in where angels fear to tread just for the sake of corporate profits. Dale, somehow you and other like you need to separate the thrill of scientitic discovery from the fatal attraction of quick monetary gain. It is far from perfect, like most things human, but the concept of the Precautionary Principle is a good one, far better for the health of the earth than the crude artistry of Risk Assessment, which is prone to the falacies of statistical analysis. You also need to realize that science, and the scientific method, produce only one possible view of our environment, of our functional reality. If you are incapable of understanding that there are other, equally valid, apprehensions of reality it makes commications between us impossible. We are not just naysayers, we see reality through different lenses than you. I'm not asking you to change your lenses, just suggesting that you recognize that there are others. Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 01:59:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA13195 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA24820 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:11:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA24716 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.251.217]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990728051011.WRMD25099@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 05:10:11 +0000 Message-ID: <379E9083.FCF99FBC@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:09:24 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: RE: heating cooking oil causes cancer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1832 Wilson, Dale wrote: <> Stephen Maxam (stevem@nh.ultranet.com) wrote: <; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 02:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA27979 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 02:06:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA27921 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 02:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.211] (ppp-206-170-32-211.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.211]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08243; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:05:54 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Update on me Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1833 Howdy, all-- My apologies for the flurry of messages in recent days; I've got a lot of catching up to do. Thanks to those of you who let me know that my update-on-me message of early July did not get thru to SANET. I was having hellacious problems with Internet service and my mail client, which seem to be ironed out now. In that message I wrote to let folks know that I'd moved from Madison to San Francisco in June. Some of you realize this decision was a long time in coming (several years), though to others it will probably look like a surprise. My new contact information is in my .sig file, below. If you wish to update your surface mailing lists, which I'd appreciate, I can send you my address upon request. I am still the communications manager for CIAS, and will remain so through the end of 1999. My colleagues and I worked out an arrangement where I can telecommute, with several trips back to Madison for important meetings (about every 8 weeks). My postal mail and AAE e-mail are forwarded here from the office, I check my voice mail there routinely, and I attend weekly CIAS staff meetings and other key meetings via teleconference. So far it's working out well, and I find it's much easier to focus on certain activities--like writing, reviews, research, new information product development, and Web work--than in our hot and crowded offices in Madison. In this way I can also help see CIAS through this, and other, transitions, and assist with communication planning and assessment in upcoming months. In addition, I am working out a contract with the Great Lakes Grazing Network (a Kellogg project thru the Wisconsin Rural Development Center) to do Web content engineering for them around grass-based farming. This excites me a lot because it'll get a lot of stuff I know out of my head, and to where others can use it. It also excites me because it gives me a chance to work with Kim Cates, who is as canny and splendid a networker as I've met since Mike Cannell walked this earth. My intent is to continue working in sustainable and organic ag here in northern California, and possibly even on a national basis. We'll see what the gods have in mind, regarding the various scenarios for that. They may have ideas that they haven't communicated to me yet. (I'm pretty sure that last week's thought of signing up for service on a trans-Pacific merchant vessel was the suggestion of a Trickster, probably one from my father's family of sailors, naval engineers, shipbuilders, and assorted rogues of that ilk. :^) If you want to hear more, let me know; I've prepared a longer letter to go to selected list servers (less public ones than SANET). Writing from the edge of Western civilization, though firmly rooted in the Midwest, with tendrils stretching back to the Atlantic seaboard, I wish you peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We must imagine the unimaginable, think the unthinkable, describe the indescribable, and do the impossible. --Philip Berrigan To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 03:25:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA14035 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 03:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA26943 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 02:49:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA26883 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 02:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.251.217]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990728064807.XOBD25099@worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:48:07 +0000 Message-ID: <379EA779.E23EA768@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:47:21 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beth Lischeron , SANET-mg Subject: Re: Jojoba/Patchouli References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D22A6A7FB0AFCEAEF42A4F87" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1834 --------------D22A6A7FB0AFCEAEF42A4F87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beth, What insects are you after? Plants used as herbal tea sprays, after being prepared in water solution, include: burdock against grubs of June beetle; camomile against damping off in greenhouse and coldframe; chive against leaf and fruit scab; garlic and onion against late blight on potato and tomato, and brown rot of stone fruit; goosebery against mildew; horsetail (Equistum arvense) against mildew and other fungi, esp. on grapevines, vegetables, fruit trees, rosebushes; horseradish against fungi; hyssop against bacterial diseases; stinging nettle against plant lice, according to Beatrice Trum Hunter, in her book, Gardening Without Poisons, copyright 1964. Against mosquito and mosquito larve, Ms Hunter suggested using extracts of essential oils, 100 percent kills were made using oil of sandlewood, elecampane, bayberry leaves, pumpkin seeds, and black mustard; 95 percent kills with oil of basil, garden sage, sweet basil, sweet marjoram, balm of Gilead, and caraway; 90 perent kills with oil of rosemary, cypress, and hydrangea; lesser kills with oil of patchouli, butternut, rhubarb, tupelo, prickly ash, comfrey, and others. In addition, she wrote, there are many other plant materials which are toxic to mosquito larvae. Also suggested is using plants and water, ( I assume liquidifying plants in water, then straining) as non-synthetic chemical insectical sprays. But, I cannot find mention of (and would like to receive) proportions! ~Bunny Snow ------------------------------------------- Beth Lischeron wrote: > Does anyone have or know of: > > a) sources for pure jojoba oil? > b) info on patchouli essential oil (or any other EE) for use in pest control > +/or as personal insect repellent? > > Thanks for the help, > > Beth --------------D22A6A7FB0AFCEAEF42A4F87 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beth,

    What insects are you after?

    Plants used as herbal tea sprays, after being prepared in water solution, include:
    burdock against grubs of June beetle; camomile against damping off in greenhouse and coldframe; chive against leaf and fruit scab; garlic and onion against late blight on potato and tomato, and brown rot of stone fruit; goosebery against mildew; horsetail (Equistum arvense) against mildew and other fungi, esp. on grapevines, vegetables, fruit trees, rosebushes; horseradish against fungi; hyssop against bacterial diseases; stinging nettle against plant lice, according to Beatrice Trum Hunter, in her book,  Gardening Without Poisons, copyright 1964.

    Against mosquito and mosquito larve, Ms Hunter suggested using extracts of essential oils, 100 percent kills were made using oil of sandlewood, elecampane, bayberry leaves, pumpkin seeds, and black mustard; 95 percent kills with oil of basil, garden sage, sweet basil, sweet marjoram, balm of Gilead, and caraway; 90 perent kills with oil of rosemary, cypress, and hydrangea; lesser kills with oil of patchouli, butternut, rhubarb, tupelo, prickly ash, comfrey, and others.  In addition, she wrote, there are many other plant materials which are toxic to mosquito larvae.

    Also suggested is using plants and water, ( I assume liquidifying plants in water, then straining) as non-synthetic chemical insectical sprays.  But, I cannot find mention of (and would like to receive) proportions!

    ~Bunny Snow
    -------------------------------------------

    Beth Lischeron wrote:

    Does anyone have or know of:

    a) sources for pure jojoba oil?
    b) info on patchouli essential oil (or any other EE) for use in pest control
    +/or as personal insect repellent?

    Thanks for the help,

    Beth

    --------------D22A6A7FB0AFCEAEF42A4F87-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 09:02:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17209 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA06009 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:02:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA05990 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA17439; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:01:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-13.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.13) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017418; Wed Jul 28 07:00:50 1999 Message-ID: <002601bed8f0$5d868440$0dfa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "SANET-mg" , "Misha" Subject: Re: Hantavirus, II Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:57:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1835 Question, Humans can catch it. So I got thinking, can cats? I think cats on many farmers are important rodent control. My cat does a fairly good job. And someday when we have a real barn well get a couple of barn cats. Given the closeness between people and cats any concern? Thank you Beth >Howdy, all-- > >I am posting these hantavirus items in part because of the prevalence >of mice, including deer mice, on many farms. Something to be aware >of. I'm curious as to whether, with shifts in weather patterns and >migrating droughts, the risk of such viruses might increase for those >of us *not* in the U.S. Southwest. > >peace >misha > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >HANTAVIRUS PULMONARY SYNDROME - USA (ARIZONA) (02) >************************************************** >A ProMED-mail post > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 09:12:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17355 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA19272 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:24:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA19205 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id HAA02143; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:24:27 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xmah00988; Wed, 28 Jul 99 07:23:22 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:07:02 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE52@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'waldenfarm@sprintmail.com'" , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Cancer and free PR Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:07:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1836 Alex, > So, Dale, are you paid by Pioneer (soon to be Pioneer/ Dupont) > as a PR agent to spread misinformation or do you do it for free? I'm paid to do production research, and I do it at all sorts of wacky hours. Pioneer is not interested, as far as I can tell, in debate with environmentalists. The people in charge of PR are probably too interested in covering their butts to engage in honest debate. Certainly they don't want to debate with extremists. > How does Dale explain this, for instance: "Between 1973 and 1991, > the incidence of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma increased at the rate of > 3.3% per year in the U.S., making it the third fastest-growing > cancer This particular cancer, probably IS linked to environmental contaminants, probably dioxin. But keep in mind this is not a very common kind of cancer. > after prostate cancer, growing at 3.9% per year, and > melanoma of the skin, also growing at 3.9% per year." Prostate cancer is probably explained by the great increase in screening in the last decade, along with increasing lifespan. Melanoma is explained by all the sun-tanning behavior people have engaged in over the last 30 years. > Also, If one half of the present population is predicted > to have cancer, is this not an increase? This is bogus information as far as I can tell. Check out the American Cancer Soc. website. It is more reliable than Rachels. Cited from Rachels by Alex: > "Stephan Muller at the Swiss federal Institute for Environmental > Science and Technology in Dubendorf reported finding one sample > of rain containing 4000 nanograms per liter of 2,4-dinitrophenol, > a common pesticide (not to be confused with the weed killer 2,4-D). 2,4 DNP is not a pesticide. The most closely related pesticide was dinoseb, I think it was 2,4-dinitrocresol, a herbicide. This was taken off the market a decade ago. Who the hell knows why Muller found "one sample" contaminated with DNP, or where it came from. > "Muller had previously studied samples of rain from 41 storms > over Europe and found Atrazine at levels exceeding 100 nanograms > per liter in 9 of them." I read a little about these studies. These are in samples taken in the first moments of rain storms when drops are sweeping all the particulates out of the air. Yet Rachels presents these as if they are averages. Keep in mind that 100 ng/l means 100 parts-per-TRILLION! That is a very, very low concentration. This lack of appreciation of scale has a lot to do with the anti-pesticide hysteria I see in the activist community. > "** Last month, researchers in the U.S. and Canada announced that > they had measured pesticides in the amniotic fluid of 30% of a > sample of 9 pregnant women in Los Angeles, California." Given current analytical methods, this is totally unremarkable. That people are alarmed by this (without more information), again, shows complete lack of appreciation of scale. > "...researchers cannot be sure that DDE would have any > affect on babies exposed continuously in the womb.[7] > But Chan pointed out that alligators were harmed by exposure > to a similar chemical in Florida after a chemical spill. These press-releasing scientists are working the hysteria for money. Notice how he is implying a vague hazard, not really saying anything, then relating it to an incident involving doses, probably millions of times greater. Well, I don't have time to argue all the particulars. But I urge you not to depend on polemic sources like Rachels, just like I wouldn't depend on Dupont PR materials. There is reliable information out there in the scientific community. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 09:28:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17644 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA29390 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:40:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29325 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23008 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id IAA07903; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <379EFAF6.E50CA2B8@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:43:34 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: FLA: Introduced /Fusarium/ plan References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1837 The most important thing about Fusarium oxysporum is that it tends to be host specific (thus the number of forma specialis, f sp). Further determining pathogenicity of F. oxysporum is difficult because of the f sp. problem. I know (and know of ) the researchers working on this project at APHIS in Maryland, and they have been working on this for quite a few years. They also know the importance of protecting the environment. Some of these researchers are pioneers in the Biocontrol of plant diseases through the use of other fungi, Trichoderma harzianum, and Gliocladium virens. I think that popular press has trivialized and sensationalized the issue, as usual. . .Just my two cents. . .Russ Misha wrote: > Howdy, all-- > > Thought this might interest you stupidity-watchers. Maybe they could > introduce some cane toads, goats, cats, and what the heck anthrax and > Ebola virus while they're at it. > > (Pardon my editorializing. And please note the next to the last > sentence in the following story, which manages to palm off any > previous biological mistakes on the mistakes themselves, rather than > on the people who made them, and allow that to stand as evidence that > it can't happen again. :^) > > The person who sent it to me indicated it was in the electronic > edition of the /New York Times/ this morning. > > peace > misha > > (who also opines that "Ag/Bio Con" is the perfect name for such a biz) > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Marijuana-Eating Fungus Seen as Potent > > Weapon, but at What Cost? > > > > > > > > By RICK BRAGG > > > > IAMI -- For decades, the hard part for drug agents stalking > > Florida's marijuana growers was finding their crop. > >The growers > > weave their plants among corn stalks and even tomato vines > >to foil aerial > > searches. In swamps, growers make berms out of muck and chicken > > wire and plant their crop, leaving fat, black water > >moccasins to stand > > guard. > > > > Hidden in Florida's lush landscape, the camouflaged marijuana plants > > often foiled the small army of officers, helicopters and > >drug-sniffing dogs. > > > > Now, the new head of the state's Office of Drug Control > >hopes to kill > > Florida's lucrative marijuana business in the very ground > >in which it > > thrives, by someday dusting suspected areas with a marijuana-eating, > > soil-borne fungus, Fusarium oxysporum. It is a plan that has some > > politicians and Florida drug enforcement officials excited, and some > > environmentalists very worried. > > > > The fungus, a bioherbicide engineered specifically to > >attack plants like > > marijuana, is otherwise harmless, said Ag/Bio Con, the Montana > > company that developed it. > > > > "Is it safe, and does it work?" asked Jim McDonough, who > >was hired by > > Gov. Jeb Bush this year to head Florida's Office of Drug Control. > > > > "I've heard some of the top scientists in the country say, > >'Yes.' " But > > McDonough, who served as Director of Strategy for Barry R. > > McCaffrey, the White House drug czar, said the fungus would not be > > used here until it was tested in rigidly controlled > >conditions at a Florida > > site. > > > > "When you deal with science, you deal with the cost of advancing and > > what is the cost of not advancing," said McDonough, who pointed out > > that 47 percent of the marijuana seized in the United > >States is taken here > > -- and much of it is home-grown. Most years, drug agents > >destroy more > > than 100,000 plants, and one year, 1992, they destroyed more than > > 240,000 plants. > > > > "With prudence and with care, make your choices," he said. > > > > McDonough said he has not yet presented the plan to Bush. > > > > But in Florida, a state that has seen its environment ravaged by > > supposedly harmless plants that thrived so well in a damp, > >hot climate > > that they overwhelmed indigenous plants, some environmentalists say > > introducing the fungus is risky, that it could mutate and > >cause disease, not > > only in wild plants but in crops as well. > > > > "I personally do not like the idea of messing with mother > >nature," said Bill > > Graves, senior biologist at the University of Florida > >Research Center in > > Homestead. "I believe that if this fungus is unleashed for > >this kind of > > problem, it's going to create its own problems. If it isn't executed > > effectively, it's going to target and kill rare and > >endangered plants." > > > > David Struhs, Secretary of the Florida Department of Environmental > > Protection, spelled out the dangers in a letter to > >McDonough dated April > > 6, 1999. > > > > "Fusarium species," he wrote, "are capable of evolving rapidly. > > Mutagenicity is by far the most disturbing factor in > >attempting to use a > > Fusarium species as a bioherbicide. > > > > "It is difficult, if not impossible," he wrote, "to > >control the spread of > > Fusarium species." > > > > The mutated fungi can cause disease in a large number of > >crops, including > > tomatoes, peppers, flowers, corn and vines, he wrote, and > >are "normally > > considered a threat to farmers as a pest, rather than as a > >pesticide. > > Fusarium species are more active in warm soils and can > >stay resident in > > the soil for years. Their longevity and enhanced activity > >under Florida > > conditions are of concern, as this could lead to an > >increased risk of > > mutagenicity." > > > > What that means, say environmentalists, is that it is hot > >here much of the > > time, and living things behave differently in Florida than > >almost anywhere > > else in this country. > > > > "In principle, I am very supportive of using biological > >agents against > > narcotic plants," said Raghavan Charudattan, professor of plant > > pathology and weed science at the University of Florida. > >"This needs to > > be researched well or it could lead to great danger." > > > > State officials have agreed to quarantine testing of the > >fungus -- at a > > facility outside Gainesville usually used for, among other > >things, studying > > citrus canker, a catastrophic plant disease that has > >ruined whole orchards > > -- and for now any use of the fungus is probably years away. > > > > But McDonough has some powerful allies, including > >Representative Bill > > McCollum, a Republican from Longwood, Fla. McDonough is planning > > to try to obtain part of a $23-million Congressional allocation for > > research in eradicating plants like marijuana, and having > >an ally like > > McCollum, as well as some Republican fund-raisers who back the idea, > > could be helpful. > > > > In Peru, angry farmers have recently accused the United > >States of using a > > soil fungus to destroy coca in the Upper Huallaga Valley, > >saying that > > fungus has spread to banana, yucca, tangerine and other food crops, > > according to The Miami Herald. > > > > American officials, while acknowledging in June that they > >had spent $14 > > million on research to develop such biological agents > >against poppy, coca > > and marijuana, denied the charges. > > > > In Florida, history has taught scientists to be cautious > >of introducing any > > foreign, living thing into the environment. While pythons > >as long as pickup > > trucks have occasionally been found under houses in South > >Florida, most > > of the problems have been with vegetable matter. > > > > Kudzu, a Chinese vine that has grown rampant in the South since its > > introduction in the 1920's to thwart soil erosion, has > >swallowed houses > > and acres of roadside in Florida, as it grows a foot a > >day. Melaleuca > > trees, planted decades ago to help drain the Everglades because they > > suck up so much water, have infested hundreds of thousands of acres. > > > > Jerry Brooks, assistant director of the state Department > >of Environmental > > Protection's Division of Water Resources, said the > >difference between > > those plants and the fungus is that the state has learned > >to be careful. > > > > "Mistakes made in the past," Brooks said, "make sure proper > > precautions are being taken." > > > > "They were not tested," he said of the infamous plants. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 09:39:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17875 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA08512 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:53:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA08505 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:48:21 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:44:30 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, sksnow@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: ...causes cancer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1838 Isn't vinyl chloride the "new car" smell? Seems to me you used to be able to buy it in cans (ie essence of VC) to spray in your car and keep it smelling new! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 10:15:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18861 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA01692 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:32:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA01669 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:36:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'janderso@asrr.arsusda.gov'" Subject: Beltsville SA and IPM Field Day Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:36:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1839 7th Annual Sustainable Agriculture and Integrated Pest Management Field Day See http://www.ba.ars.usda.gov/susag99.htm Horticultural and Field Crops August 11, 1999 Beltsville Agricultural Research Center USDA, ARS, Beltsville, Maryland 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. You are invited to join the Seventh Annual Sustainable Agriculture and Integrated Pest Management Field Day, August 11, 1999, at the Beltsville Agricultural Research Center (BARC). This year's focus is on Horticultural and Field Crop Sustainable Systems. The purpose is to exhibit BARC's research programs and initiatives for developing sustainable agriculture systems that we will need for the 21st century and beyond. Components of our broad effort on Horticultural and Field Crop Systems for use on small farms, including organic farms, are aimed at the development of cropping systems that increase productivity, enhance the environment, and produce more healthful fruits and vegetables while reducing fertilizer and pesticide inputs. The use of manure and composts as well as other rural and urban by-products as soil amendments also will be featured. Registration and payment for lunch will be at 8 a.m., August 11, 1999 at Building 011A. The morning tours will start at 8:30, 9:00, and 9:30 and will last about 3 hours. There will be an hour for lunch and then the afternoon bus tour will begin at 12:30 p.m. and last about 2.5 hours. Registration form is available at http://www.ba.ars.usda.gov/registra.htm For questions or comments, contact: janderso@asrr.arsusda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 10:27:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19030 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA10852 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:43:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10804 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA10325 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990728095049.007e78b0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:50:49 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: The fungus among us -- More fun from the ARS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1840 US GE: The Drug War's Fungal Solution? Newshawk: Steve Young Pubdate: Spring 1998 Source: Covert Action Quarterly Contact: caq@igc.org Website: http://www.caq.com Author: Jim Hogshire THE DRUG WAR'S FUNGAL SOLUTION? The USDA has been tinkering with the genetic code of a dangerous fungus trying to target and wipe out the Andean coca and poppy crops. But if anything goes wrong, the fusarium fungus may end up destroying food crops and a whole lot more. This past August, a piece of good news came from the maze of nameless buildings at the USDA's Agricultural Research Service (ARS) in Beltsville, Maryland. Dr. Deborah R. Fravel, a plant pathologist at the laboratory for Biocontrol of Plant Diseases (BCPD) had turned the tables on a nasty, tomato-eating fungus called Fusarium oxysporum. She had developed a "benign" strain of the fungus that "inoculates" the tomatoes, much as a vaccine protects a child against certain diseases. And the fungus is nasty. A virulent mutation of fusarium, called "Race 3" has been a bane to Florida and Georgia farmers who have trouble controlling it with even the strongest fungicides. Around the world, fusarium also destroys watermelons, chickpeas, basil, bananas, and hundreds of other crops. The blight, in all its myriad permutations, can lie dormant in the soil for years without a host plant and then springs to life, causing devastating "wilt disease." Fear of introducing the disease is one reason Japan is loath to accept US produce. While some strains of this fungus are relatively harmless to most plants, other types of fusarium can produce mycotoxins poisonous to humans. The Fungus Among Us But the USDA press release was warm and fuzzy describing "good" fungi "helping plants to help themselves." There was no mention of Fravel's part in dozens of projects aimed at producing a lethal, but "natural" herbicide from the same fungus for a very different purpose. Fravel's efforts are part of a cabal of scientists working hand in hand with the DEA, the State Department, and foreign governments to produce an herbicide designed to effect the drug war's Final Solution: total elimination of the world's illicit coca crops and opium poppies - the same goal recently announced by the United Nations. Fravel's boss at the BCPD, Dr. Robert D. Lumsden, is a prominent figure in the eradication research program. Lumsden's work with mutant strains of Fusaruim oxysporum over the past few years has taken him to sites around the world and across the country. At the University of Montana in Bozeman, he and another ARS plant pathologist, Dr. Bryan A. Bailey, are in the midst of a five-year study of the toxic effects of F. oxysporum and other fungi on opium poppies and marijuana. According to one of Lumsden's reports, unlike chemical herbicides, "these naturally-occurring fungi are safe for humans and the environment." Lumsden worked with Bailey to develop a granular formulation fusarium mycotoxin, for testing at sites "foreign and domestic." A government coca field in Hawaii was eventually used to test the mycotoxin, along with traditional chemical herbicides. A 1995 study of fusarium herbicide showed "significant kill" of coca bushes while other studies indicate a 60 to 90 percent kill-rate for opium poppies. When scientists no-ticed that ants sometimes carried away the poison pellets, Fravel and Bailey looked for ways to make them more attractive to the insects - so they would take the herbicide deeper into the soil. The ants (which preferred their pellets flavored with olive oil) were found to carry the fungus both "outside and inside their bodies." Changing Genes Later research by Bailey and others identified the gene responsible for one strain's deadly effects on coca. They then developed a way "to allow alteration of the gene expression." They began to play with the fungus' genetic code. The ARS's long-standing interest in manipulating the fusarium fungus is revealed in a series of studies it commissioned. One experiment set out "to construct a genetic map of Fusarium moniliforme" and "to identify mutants that affect the synthesis of" its mycotoxins. Another study proposed "the development of strains with enhanced pathogenicity" that could wipe out coca plants "using molecular genetic manipulations involving fungal proteins." The ARS branch in Ft. Detrick, Maryland, carried out the "successful transformation of Fusarium oxysporum" by "DNA sequence encoding." Claiming that it would have "limited environmental impact," another ARS study acknowledged that a "biocontrol strategy for coca" using Fusarium oxssporum had been "developed and successfully field tested in small scale trials." Researchers hint that they took their cue for the mycotoxin from a naturally occurring outbreak of fusarium wilt destroying crops in Peru's Upper Huallaga valley. An ongoing ARS project, begun in 1993, noted: "Studies of a naturally-occurring epidemic of fusarium wilt in Peru have been concluded which verify that the epidemic is progressing and causing significant disease in the coca producing regions of Peru. Already, the natural epidemic of fusarium wilt in the coca producing areas of Peru is causing farmers to abandon their fields. A protein produced by Fusarium oxysporum which is toxic to E. coca has been purified and its gene cloned. The data indicate that a bioherbicide using Fusarium oxysporum which is effective against coca can be produced and proof of concept field tests are being initiated." As early as 1991, Peruvian campesinos testified that they witnessed helicopters carrying DEA agents and Peruvian police dropping pellets containing the fungus onto coca fields; however, there is no other solid evidence to support the allegation that the pellets actually contained fusariurn. Other press accounts allege a direct link between the DEA and the use of fusarium: "The US Drug Enforcement Administration resumed full cooperation with the Peruvian police in 1994, when [the] strategy shifted to destroying illegal coca plantations using a mushroom known scientifically as fusarium and colloquially among the peasants as 'the coca-eater.'" Because there are so many strains or races of fusarium, it may not be possible to determine if this outbreak affecting coca and other crops is a result of natural causes or human intervention. Eat Stuff and Die The problem with creating any "bug" that will eat just one thing and then obediently cease to exist is obvious. All life-forms mutate and adapt, especially a simple organism like a fungus; sooner or later it will learn to eat something else. A similar situation occurred in 1971, when Richard Nixon misinterpreted a theory about "an insect which could consume poppy crops" and then die. Nixon, preoccupied by this imaginary weevil, by then dubbed the "screw worm" (because it was supposed to die after intercourse), asked Congress for funding. When Nixon's advisors could not be assured that this "screw worm" would be host specific - i.e., it might eat the worid's supply of poppy crops and then adapt to another host, such as rice or wheat - they lost interest in the project. Eventually even these knuckleheads dropped the idea. But research into doper bugs continued. In 1996, Bailey, Lumsden, and Fravel - - working on a project at North Carolina State University in Raleigh - wrote that their finely tuned pathogen "kills only coca and does not harm other plants." A recently launched study, however, suggests that the fusarium formulas are still not specific enough. One ARS investigator is studying the "ubiquitous species-complex of Fusarium oxysponum [that] is currently being investigated as a biological control agent. However, this fungus encompasses broad genetic variability that has not yet been delineated." There is, the researcher continues, "still a need to characterize genetically the strains that attach Erthrroxylon [coca] and/or Papaver [poppies] as well as those that occur in soils and on crop plants growing in close proximity." Translation: the innumerable strains of the fungus could possibly attack adjacent crops and do God-knows-what to everything else. Perversely, the government touts the fungus project as environmentally friendly because it avoids the use of chemicals. For years, the US has browbeaten Andean pro-ducer countries into using US-produced herbicides such as Roundup (glyphosate), and to kill off the "source" of the US drug problem. The Andean nations have balked, arguing that US consumer demand drives production, not the other way around. With the threat of withholding millions in aid dollars to bolster its side, Washington has demanded eradication. Local growers are then left not only without a cash crop, but sick from the toxic effects of the herbicides. Protests over the health effects of herbicides prompted Bolivia and Peru to stand up to Washington and prohibit Roundup--like herbicides for coca and poppy eradication. In early March 1996, Colombia abruptly halted herbicide fumigation in retaliation for being "decertified" for not complying with US drug war demands. Humans exposed to Monsanto Corporation's Roundup - the current chemical of choice - can suffer damage to the stomach, heart, kidneys, lungs and skin. Glyphosate, according to a 1993 study by the University of California Berkeley School of Public Health, was the third most commonly-reported cause of pesticide illness among agricultural workers. Another study from the Berkeley school found that it was the most frequently reported cause of pesticide illness among landscape maintenance workers. As a drug eradication chemical, glyphosate has another problem: It can be washed off for 8 hours after it is sprayed on, making it vulnerable to rain - and farmers who rush into the freshly poisoned fields to wash the toxins off their crops. Armed with the more potent herbicide Spike (tebuthiuron), the US is now pushing to use that defoliant in the drug war. Manufactured by Dow AgroSciences (formerly DowElanco and then Eli Lilly before that merger), the use of tebuthiuron has been hawked in Congress by Rep. Dan Bunon (R-IN) - a longtime recipient of money from both Indianapolis based-Eli Lilly and Dow. While killer fungi and many poisonous herbicides are not approved for use in the US, people in developing countries often have no say in what toxins are released in their communities. If some US officials have their way unilateral decision-making could become the norm. At a hearing he chaired on "certification" of nations in the drug war, Dan Burton told the State Department's narcotics point man, Robert Gelbard, how to handle countries that refused to be defoliated: "Tell the president [sic] of Peru and Bolivia at about 5:00 in the morning, 'We've got a bunch of aircraft carriers out here, and we're coming down through those valleys, and we're gonna drop this stuff, this tebuthiuron...' I think we should consider, if this really is a war on drugs, doing it unilaterally and violating the territorial boundaries of those countries and dropping that stuff. Now, I know that doesn't sit well with the State Department, but either we deal with it or our kids continue to suffer and our society continues to let this cancer grow." Whether "our" kids should be "protected" by poisoning "their" kids, however, is a policy issue that seems to escape US drug warriors. In their zeal to sound ever tougher on drug issues, Washington policy makers - together with fearless scientists eager to test their theories on other people's communities - may soon have a new biological doomsday weapon to unleash on their southern neighbors. At best, fusarium could become the latest bit of humiliation unilaterally rammed down the throat of Andean nations. At worst, the fungus could run amok unleashing the modern day equivalent of the Great Potato Famine. Checked-by: Melodi Cornett Media Awareness Project P. O. Box 651 Porterville, CA 93258 (800) 266-5759 Contact: Mark Greer (mgreer@mapinc.org) Webmaster: Matt Elrod (webmaster@mapinc.org) ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 10:28:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19055 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA10985 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:45:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kbs.msu.edu (kbs.kbs.msu.edu [192.231.113.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10981 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LAFPC1.kbs.msu.edu (192.231.113.167) by kbs.msu.edu (PMDF V5.0-8 #15644) id <01JE3DG9DCM88ZE6UI@kbs.msu.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:41:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:45:33 -0400 From: Michel Cavigelli Subject: Re: Negative people? I don't think so ... To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <01bed964$0c0713e0$a771e7c0@LAFPC1.kbs.msu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1841 My 2 1/2 cents: Please everyone, stop flaming. My views on sustainable ag and a just society are probably more closely affiliated with those of the people bad-mouthing Dale Wilson, but I think that if we can not come up with responses to Dale that are not full of accusations of where his loyalties lie and of his ethical core we are wasting everyone's time. Although he sometimes steps slightly over the boundaries of civil discourse, I am very happy that Dale takes the time (no matter who is paying him) to challenge the sustainable ag community. I get the sense that he is truly interested in the issues and think that he represents the views of perhaps the majority of people in society at large, a group that generally does not have Dale's patience with the accusatory comments thrown his way. If we can not express our views in a coherent manner in this forum that allows self-editing before pressing the send button, we will do very poorly with the less patient majority. And, with confronting the many powerful forces that are against sustainable ag. These forces, in my view, include most of agribusiness that is interested first and foremost with making a buck with high tech but user friendly technologies (like RoundUp Ready Soybeans that will and have resulted in RoundUp resistant weeds) and secondarily, if at all, with the farmer and environmental concerns. (I expect Dale to challenge this somewhat hyperbolic comment). I do not include social justice issues because I do not think many people, never mind corporations, are very interested in those issues since they generally include sharing resources with people perceived as "different". But, I transgress and perhaps reveal some negative perspective, in support of Dale's comments (I don't think negativity is always bad in light of the "optimism with no justification" that my European colleagues see among US citizens). In any case, I assume Dale and/or Pioneer's interest in this list stems in part from the success of the sustainable ag movement (true, Dale?), so we should rejoice in that and learn what we can from his input. And if Pioneer is footing the bill, all the better. Michel Michel A. Cavigelli Research Associate Michigan State University Extension W.K. Kellogg Biological Station Hickory Corners MI 49060 phone: 616-671-2412 x230 fax: 616-671-4485 cavigelli@kbs.msu.edu -----Original Message----- From: Wilson, Dale To: 'Lester Loam' ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 6:47 PM Subject: RE: Negative people? I don't think so ... Lester, >> This list is filled with negative people, apparently >> worshipping the coming apocalypse. > Most of the people on sanet and most in the sustainable > ag community are among the most positive people I know. > They don't worship the apocalypse. I meant in the context of genetic engineering, not in general. > I think that perhaps a decade ago, they were encouraged that > there appeared to be bridges to their sustainable vision. > But lately, very powerful forces appear to be trying to > slam the door shut on their vision. I wasn't very knowledgable about the sustainable agriculture movement ten years ago, but it seems like it's credibility and acceptance by the public have grown since then. What do think are the powerful forces trying to slam sustainable ag? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 11:47:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21073 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA14538 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:41:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from laboulaye.dataco19.com.ar (ftp.dataco19.com.ar [200.49.1.221]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA14500 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (unverified [200.49.1.201]) by laboulaye.dataco19.com.ar (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:46:34 -0300 Message-ID: <000901bed906$47affe60$c90131c8@default> From: "Edgardo Martini" To: Subject: Questions Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:33:39 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1842 Hi I am a new user in this mail list. I am a farmer and live in Argentina, in a semiarid region and I would like your opinion about no till practises. No till have highs demand in herbicides, but in the region where I live is (aparentely) the most profitable practise, because in winter the wind are relatively strong, then, if you work with conventional tillage, one day of strong wind can destroy that nature made in 10 o 12 years. The other question is what secure for ambient is gliphosate, Monsanto says that is the most secure, but I am not sure about this. I sorry by mi english is not good, but I hope that you understand. I will apreciate your answers Edgardo Martini Jovita - Cordoba Argentina To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 11:59:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA21386 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22183 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:52:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov [205.156.34.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22069; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jquinton.csc.noaa.gov (205.156.35.23) by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (Worldmail 1.3.167); 28 Jul 1999 10:51:38 -0400 Message-ID: <379C5B2500000DC0@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov> (added by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov) X-Sender: jquinton@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:49:43 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: Jim Quinton Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1171 In-Reply-To: <199907280026.UAA26840@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1843 If one half of the present population is predicted to have cancer, is this not an increase? I think that Dale has shown his true colors with this latest smoke screen. So, Dale, are you paid by Pioneer (soon to be Pioneer/ Dupont) as a PR agent to spread misinformation or do you do it for free? Since your posts are sent during "normal business hours," we can conclude 1 of 4 things: 1. You are paid for putting out misinformation by Pioneer 2. You're not paid, but get a wink & nod of approval from Pioneer for doing it. 3. Your employer doesn't know you're doing it and you're screwing off on Pioneer's time. 4. You don't really work for Pioneer. Alex Just another negative voice I have never met Dale, but after looking over this little rejoinder I'd rather meet him than meet Alex.... what a vicious little twit! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 12:06:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA21598 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25578 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:58:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from guppy.pond.net (guppy.pond.net [205.240.25.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25571 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ddecou (pBp30.pond.net [207.149.187.158]) by guppy.pond.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA22596 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990728080252.007f0280@pond.net> X-Sender: ddecou@pond.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:02:52 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: David DeCou Subject: GMO Pollen transfer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1844 Hello all- I am an organic farmer who is a member of a Task Force from the Organic Trade Association (OTA) which is attempting to come up with a recommendations for Organic farmers concerning GMOs. The one issue which is of deep concern is polen transfer. We in the OTA assume that when the USDA comes out with another Proposed Rule for Organic production that there will be a requirement for no use of geneticically modified materials, seeds, crops, etc. in organic production. We also assume that we will not be able to achieve an absolute zero level over time because of cross pollenation of certain crops. We know that in Europe there is DISCUSSION of a tolerance level of 0.1% contamination of GMO's in crops which are still to be considered GMO free (nothing definitive yet on this but this approaches the current abilities to test these things). Given that organic farmers will be growing crops near to their neighbors who may be growing Genetically modified crops of the same species what kind of buffer would be necessary to prevent a contamination of 0.1% in the crop. Clearly this information would be crop specific and a buffer may be in time as well as in space. This issue will be very significant organic growers in the Corn Belt currently and in other crops as well if the BioTech Industry moves ahead into a wider spectrum of crops as well. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 12:31:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22128 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09966 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:23:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09931 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.170]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990728152256.CEOU25099@worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:22:56 +0000 Message-ID: <379F201E.C73A2F40@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:22:07 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob MacGregor , SANET-mg Subject: Re: ...causes cancer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1845 Bob MacGregor wrote: > Isn't vinyl chloride the "new car" smell? Seems to me you used to be able to buy it in cans (ie essence of VC) to spray in your car and keep it smelling new! Yes! According to the USEPA, air inside new cars may contain vinyl chloride at higher levels thandetected in ambient air because ''vinyl chloride may out gas into the air from the new plastic parts.'' http://www.epa.gov/ttn/uatw/hlthef/vinylchl.html The Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet at the New Jersey Department of Health and Human Services, , says vinyl chloride has a sweet odor and is used to make plastics, adhesives and other chemicals. ''Most of the vinyl chloride produced in the United States is used to make polyvinyl chloride, a material used to manufacture a variety of plastic and vinyl products. Smaller amounts of vinyl chloride are used as a refrigerant gas and in the manufacture of other chemicals, according to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). Toxicological Profile for Vinyl Chloride. The Illinois Health Department says: one can be exposed through contaminated drinking water (vinyl chloride makes up the pipes that bring water into our homes), but most people are exposed by contaminated air. ''If your water supply is contaminated, showering, bathing, cooking, or laundering with the water can release vinyl chloride into the air where you can breathe it.'' http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/vinyl-chloride.htm Polyvinyl chloride makes up a great deal of my Saturn, inside and probably out. I have to park in the shade and keep the windows partially open, otherwise I experience headache, fatigue, dizziness, lightheadedness, and loss of memory -- all central nervous system symptoms, which coincidentally are also experienced when people and other animals are exposed to pesticides. According to Marion Moses, M.D., M.P.H.: ''Pesticides are toxic substances deliberately added to our environment to kill or harm living things. They can also kill or harm human beings. The 1947 federal pesticide law defined pesticides as 'economic poisons.' Pesticides are named according to the kind of pest they are used against'' --herbicides for weeds, insecticides for insects; fungicides, bactericides, and so forth. So, contrary to what Dale Wilson claims, 2,4 DNP IS a pesticide, just like Roundup is a pesticide! Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 12:35:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22188 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16846 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16809 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:31:17 -0400 (EDT) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: (from nobody@localhost) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id LAA28690; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907281530.LAA28690@travelers.mail.cornell.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: travelers.mail.cornell.edu: nobody set sender to dsc17@cornell.edu using -f To: Michel Cavigelli Reply-To: dsc17@cornell.edu Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu References: <01bed964$0c0713e0$a771e7c0@LAFPC1.kbs.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: <01bed964$0c0713e0$a771e7c0@LAFPC1.kbs.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 X-Originating-IP: 132.236.126.57 Subject: civility Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1846 Greetings I wish to reiterate Michel's plea for civility. His comment on being able to carry on discourse with those of differing views was very eloquent. If one cannot convince another of the value of his or her ideas without resorting to name calling or "poisoning the well" (e.g., so-and-so's view is tainted because he/she works for XX corporation), the true worth of those ideas is probably quite suspect. I like a good spirited debate as much as anyone, but I like to think I can fiercely disagree with someone and still treat him or her with dignity and respect. We (SANETers)are, in a sense, dissidents. We hold beliefs and goals pertaining to ag that are not in the minstream. How then, can we be so intolerant of people in our own virtual community that hold different views. It would be a mighty sad day when someone is so intimidated by the threat of "flaming" that he/she is reluctant to post innovative or different views on this listserve These attacks are infrequent enough that I stay on the list. I feel the need to send gentle reminders when an issue crops up. Fortunately, most of you have good e-manners and I continue to reap the benefits of your many views and experiences. Thanks! Debate and argue, attack ideas... not people Thanks for reading Hope you are all having a good summer David To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 14:19:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01703 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA03841 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:50:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emerald.tufts.edu (pmdf@emerald.tufts.edu [130.64.1.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03821 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by emerald.tufts.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #U3521) with SMTP id <0FFL00M01ARB51@emerald.tufts.edu> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:49:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Hugh Joseph Subject: Action Alert - Program for Disadvantaged Farmers To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: X-Envelope-to: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1847 ACTION ALERT - QUICK RESPONSE NEEDED! USDA PROGRAM FOR SOCIALLY DISADVANTAGED FARMERS You are urged to support efforts to increase funding for the Section 2501 program (of the 1990 Farm Bill) - Outreach and Technical Assistance for Socially Disadvantaged Farmers. This is a critical year for refunding programs supported through this initiative. CURRENT STATUS OF 2501 FUNDING: The President's budget requested $10 million for this program. Earlier this year, both the House and the Senate Appropriations Committees appropriated only $3 million, the same amount as last year. Last month, Marcy Kaptur (D - Ohio) successfully led an effort to raise the level available for this program to $10 million in the House. Specifically, the House language authorizes the Secretary of Agriculture to transfer up to $7 million in FY 2000 for this program (in addition to the $3 million appropriation). Now the Senate needs to support this language. The Senate will consider agriculture funding issues probably this week. This is the opportunity to show support for either a floor amendment or other Senate action to ensure increased funding for this program from the current $3 million to the $10 million level authorized in the original legislation. Senator (Charles S.) Robb (D) of Virginia is taking the lead on this issue. It is not clear that Senator Robb will submit this as a floor amendment. Alternatively, he may promote some kind of compromise during the House-Senate conference. This would be riskier and less likely to get us to full funding, but it is also worth supporting if a floor amendment would not pass in the Senate. It is important that the Senate agree to the House language that gives the Secretary authority to expand program funding by $7 million. WHAT TO DO: PLEASE ACT NOW! Fax, mail, or email your Senators as soon as possible, as the funding process will likely go forward this week or soon after. Ask your Senators (particularly any on Appropriations) to contact Senator Robb and to express their support for more funding for this program. Also ask them to agree to co-sponsor a floor amendment if he so chooses to take that route. Bipartisan support would be most effective. A concern regarding this funding is the source of the funding offset. The House language authorizes these funds to come out of Rural Housing, which is unsatisfactory. USDA is also concerned and is currently looking for a more suitable offset for this money. You should include this concern with your communication to your Senators. KEY SENATORS TO CONTACT: Key agriculture appropriations members include: R - Cochran, Spector, Bond, Gorton, McConnell, Burns, Stevens D - Kohl, Harkin, Dorgan, Feinstein, Durbin However, Sen. Leahy (D) and other Senate Appropriation members are also important to this process. Senator Robb: Telephone - 202-224-4024 Fax: 202-224-8689 Ag. Aide - Kim Anderson: Tel. - 202-224-8025 BACKGROUND ON 2501 PROGRAM: The Section 2501 program was part of the 1990 Farm Bill, authorizing $10 million a year to carry out the provisions of the legislation. It funds outreach and technical assistance to encourage and assist socially disadvantaged farmers and ranchers to own and operate farms and ranches, and to participate in agricultural programs. Given the recent Civil Rights settlements, and the clear need for this program as evidenced in the Civil Rights Action Team (CRAT) Recommendations and reiterated in the USDA National Commission on Small Farms Report of Jan,. 1998 report, it would seem incumbent upon Congress to be sure this program is fully funded for FY 2000. Farming opportunities for minorities and other disadvantaged persons are limited. This is one a few programs that specifically targets these constituencies, who can play a vital role in the future of US farming. The 2501 funds have mainly been used for multi-year grants, mostly to the 1890 Land-Grant Colleges. In recent years, Congress has severely underfunded the program, making it very difficult for USDA to fully fund these multi-year commitments. FY 2000 represents a critical year, as most of these contracts are ending and another round of multi-year programs needs to be funded. If the full $10 million is available, it will significantly expand the numbers of institutions that can receive these funds, and increase the levels of awards that can be made. In addition, expanded funds would allow other institutions nationwide to participate in this program. The authorizing legislation allows USDA to fund any community-based organizations as well as post-secondary institutions with experience in providing agricultural education and related services to socially disadvantaged farmers and ranchers in all regions of the country. 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 14:23:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01775 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA12292 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:01:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12279 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.170]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990728170105.DWZL25099@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:01:05 +0000 Message-ID: <379F3720.55D090B9@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:00:16 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: RE: Cancer and free PR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1848 <> Cited by Dale Wilson at: <2,4 DNP is not a pesticide. The most closely related pesticide was dinoseb, I think it was 2,4-dinitrocresol, a herbicide. This was taken off the market a decade ago. Who the hell knows why Muller found "one sample" contaminated with DNP, or where it came from.> According to Marion Moses, M.D., M.P.H.: ''Pesticides are toxic substances deliberately added to our environment to kill or harm living things. They can also kill or harm human beings. The 1947 federal pesticide law defined pesticides as 'economic poisons.' Pesticides are named according to the kind of pest they are used against'' --herbicides for weeds, insecticides for insects; fungicides, bactericides, and so forth. Hence, contrary to what Dale Wilson claims, 2,4 DNP is a pesticide, just like Roundup is a pesticide! Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 14:24:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01911 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA10768 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:57:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10682 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.170]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990728165639.DVFW25099@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:56:39 +0000 Message-ID: <379F3616.CEDF6E18@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:55:51 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: Re:...causes of cancer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1849 Bob MacGregor wrote: << Isn't vinyl chloride the "new car" smell? Seems to me you used to be able to buy it in cans (ie essence of VC) to spray in your car and keep it smelling new!>> Yes! According to the USEPA, air inside new cars may contain vinyl chloride at higher levels thandetected in ambient air because ''vinyl chloride may out gas into the air from the new plastic parts.'' http://www.epa.gov/ttn/uatw/hlthef/vinylchl.html The Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet at the New Jersey Department of Health and Human Services, , says vinyl chloride has a sweet odor and is used to make plastics, adhesives and other chemicals. ''Most of the vinyl chloride produced in the United States is used to make polyvinyl chloride, a material used to manufacture a variety of plastic and vinyl products. Smaller amounts of vinyl chloride are used as a refrigerant gas and in the manufacture of other chemicals, according to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). Toxicological Profile for Vinyl Chloride. The Illinois Health Department says: one can be exposed through contaminated drinking water (vinyl chloride makes up the pipes that bring water into our homes), but most people are exposed by contaminated air. ''If your water supply is contaminated, showering, bathing, cooking, or laundering with the water can release vinyl chloride into the air where you can breathe it.'' http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/vinyl-chloride.htm Polyvinyl chloride makes up a great deal of my Saturn, inside and probably out. I have to park in the shade and keep the windows partially open, otherwise I experience headache, fatigue, dizziness, lightheadedness, and loss of memory -- all central nervous system symptoms, which coincidentally are also experienced when people and other animals are exposed to pesticides. Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 14:56:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03410 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28118 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:29:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28059 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA01716; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:27:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2c-208.ix.netcom.com(209.110.254.208) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001670; Wed Jul 28 12:26:31 1999 Message-ID: <006601bed91d$dabf4640$0dfa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Michel Cavigelli" Cc: Subject: Re: civility Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:23:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1850 >Well said. This is however one of the (usually) most polite lists I've been on. Keep up the good work. Beth These attacks are infrequent enough that I stay on the >list. I feel the need to send gentle reminders when an >issue crops up. Fortunately, most of you have good >e-manners and I continue to reap the benefits of your >many views and experiences. Thanks! >Debate and argue, attack ideas... not people >Thanks for reading >Hope you are all having a good summer >David > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 14:57:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA03444 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA04741 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:38:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA04728 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA20044 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 28 Jul 99 13:36:28 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 28 Jul 99 13:36:03 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:36:02 EST Subject: Re: civility In-reply-to: <199907281530.LAA28690@travelers.mail.cornell.edu> References: <01bed964$0c0713e0$a771e7c0@LAFPC1.kbs.msu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <4C9A004969@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1851 Folks: permit me to second David's comment. Having watched another large and formerly effective list disintegrate/fragment because of the inability of a very few members to discuss issues without resorting to flaming, denigrating, ridiculing, and attributing ill-intent to other people, I would sure hate to see the same thing happen to SANET. And besides, it is useful to listen to the arguments of someone as diametrically opposite to prevailing list values as our friend Dale. He speaks for the mainstream agricultural community (although as I recall, he has vigorously disavowed this label), and if you haven't yet figured this out, you need to have your arguments very well thought out if and when you ever go out and try to dialogue with those folks. So, it is useful to interact with him in a non-threatening venue like SANET to hone your arguments and anticipate the rejoinders you will surely receive when you have to deal with the mainstream. And finally, if it is all just too stressful or annoying, you also have the option of just deleting unread the messages from senders you cannot muster the strength to deal with on a given day. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 15:06:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03645 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA22777 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22698 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01663 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA12341 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:06:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:06:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: civility In-Reply-To: <199907281530.LAA28690@travelers.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1852 On Wed, 28 Jul 1999 dsc17@cornell.edu wrote: > It would be a mighty sad day when someone is so > intimidated by the threat of "flaming" that he/she is > reluctant to post innovative or different views on this This doesn't happen here, thankfully, but it goes on all the time elsewhere, i.e. Usenet newsgroups. There is one called triangle.general serving residents of the RTP area (Raleigh, Chapel Hill, Durham metropolitan area. A core group of hecklers (mostly employees of mainstream industry in RTP) regularly shouts down anyone posting on environmental or alternative agriculture subjects as well as those voicing criticism of the safety of the nuclear industry. I've often wondered if these people were being paid to do this. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 16:36:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06201 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03333 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:15:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f121.hotmail.com [216.32.181.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA03298 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2813 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jul 1999 19:14:32 -0000 Message-ID: <19990728191432.2812.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 24.95.191.247 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:14:32 PDT X-Originating-IP: [24.95.191.247] From: "Lester Loam" To: WILSONDO@phibred.com, lester_loam@hotmail.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Negative people? I don't think so ... Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:14:32 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1853 "Wilson, Dale" wrote: >What do think are the powerful forces trying to slam >sustainable ag? First, like Michel, I want to thank you, Dale, for having thick skin and hanging in. You are a very valuable part of this discussion. Please keep it up. As far as forces go, I have a hard time naming names. I don't believe that we are where we are because of some Tri-Lateral Commission conspiracy, nor do I blame any individual, organization, corporation, politician or policy. You can't. It's a lot more complicated than that. But make no mistake. There are forces slamming sustainable ag: The forces that make farmers choose short-term economics over long-term stewardship. It shouldn't be either/or. The market should reward farmers handsomely for thinking a lot farther ahead than the rest of us. The forces that make it next to impossible for a new generation of farmers to work the land. The forces that tend to "homogenize" production practices over larger and larger areas, instead of relying on the ingenuity of people to craft farming systems that are truly site-specific. (Please don't tell me that precision ag is already doing this. All it's doing is helping big farms "tighten up the nozzles" a little on their corn and bean rotations, if you can call that a rotation.) The forces that have made hogs back-breakers instead of mortgage-lifters, and keep cows standing around on concrete eating hot rations. The forces that brought us the "Freedom to Fail" act of 1996. It was designed to get government out of farming, but it's doing a better job of getting farmers out of farming -- especially those who lack the deep pockets to weather poor markets. The forces that continue to reduce the number of farmers even though overall production tends to increase with the "eyes-to-acres" ratio, a fact that many who profess that they want to feed the world tend to ignore. The forces that keep consumers ignorant (or at least uncaring) about how their food choices affect their own health and the health of their planet. The forces that keep poor farmers in developing countries poor, or at least tie their fate to the vagaries of world markets. I'm sure you can think of more. There are forces doing all that. But they are too complex to attribute to any one thing. Complex answers defy simple solutions, or rather they defy ONE simple solution. But many simple solutions can change things. I've seen some that address each of those forces offered here on sanet. That's why I keep dropping in. Lester _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 16:37:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06237 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA12733 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:29:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.a001.sprintmail.com (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12698 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP088.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.176]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27405 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379F5AE3.19A7C07F@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:32:51 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Cancer & Pesticides Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1854 Dale wrote: This particular cancer, probably IS linked to environmental contaminants, probably dioxin. So, it looks like Dale failed to read the included article which read: Last March, well-known Swedish scientists Lennart Hardell and Mikael Eriksson published a case-control study (404 cases and 741 controls) showing once again that non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) is linked to pesticide exposures. Hardell and Eriksson published their first study linking phenoxy herbicides to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) in 1981. The studies did not link NHL to "probably dioxin," they linked it to a pesticide exposure. And before Dale jumps on someone else again, in the common vernacular (ask your extension office), "pesticide" is something that kills plant and animal pests and is divided into herbicides and insecticides. Also, see the article excerpt above in which the author refers to an herbicide as a pesticide. As for: But keep in mind this is not a very common kind of cancer. This type of cancer isn't that common? It has averaged a growth rate of 3.3% per year over about 20 years. That's an increase of about 60%! It's getting more common by the day. And the other 2 forms of cancer mentioned, prostate & melanoma, have grown about 75% more frequent. I'm sorry but I just don't buy that all of this increase is due to better screening and higher rates of diagnosis and sunbathing. Where are the "scientific studies" to support this idea? And: Well, I don't have time to argue all the particulars. But I urge you not to depend on polemic sources like Rachels, just like I wouldn't depend on Dupont PR materials. There is reliable information out there in the scientific community. Rachels is citing scientific studies- see the reference list. These are not "polymics," but direct quotes from scientific articles. (Funny how we dismiss those things which interfere with how we think the universe operates.) And someone (who will remain anonymous) sent me a message complaining about adding the "Rachel's" article: I think it is more appropriate for you to send such items privately rather to the entire list. You may be right, considering how Dale answered without reading the article. I was addressing his statement in earlier posts in which he says we should back our "extremist" positions with scientific references (for all the good it did). Alex A vicious little twit in a large pond To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 16:53:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA06571 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:53:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA26094 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:52:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pratt.edu (acnet.pratt.edu [204.97.89.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26070 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pratt.edu (pc15370.pratt.edu [207.127.153.70]) by pratt.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA18394 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:51:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <379F6006.210A2C22@pratt.edu> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:54:46 -0400 From: Nancy Haycock X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: cover crop help Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1855 I'm just in contract to buy a farm in Hobart, New York (about 30 miles south of Albany), where I'm planning to grow organic vegetables. This is a new phase of my life and I'm looking for advice. I won't take possession until probably September 7th, and I know that is very late to think about putting in a cover crop. BUT, the soil pH is 5.5 or so, the water table is very high, and it's basically silty loam. (elevation about 1900 feet, 15% slope) I need to do something. Here's my question. I need to raise the pH, but will it be too late for me to put in a cover crop of oats or rye grass?? I'm going to buy a 6 hp tiller, and so that would probably take me a couple of days to till. ( I think.I hope.). And, could I add lime and seed the rye grass or some other cover crop? I'd sure appreciate any advice about what I could do this fall to improve the soil so I could grow vegetables in the spring. Thanks. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 18:16:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA08735 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA09324 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:00:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f64.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.64]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA09267 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 58525 invoked by uid 0); 28 Jul 1999 20:59:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19990728205957.58524.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.179.160.113 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:59:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.179.160.113] From: "Emily Young" To: lester_loam@hotmail.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: obstacles to sustainable ag Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:59:56 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1856 Lester- I found your e-mail to be insightful. I am doing research on sustainable farming systems. Although I know the "forces that be" are complex, I am wondering if perhaps you have any ideas on what might transcend them. What do sustainable agriculture farmers need that they don't now have? Specifically, can you think of a niche for a business or a group that would support farmers? or make essential partners? I have been looking into farming co-ops, food processing plants, distribution firms, education/training, business incubators, and information systems companies for sustainable agriculture, but honestly, it is hard to find out what farmers are actually using or partnering with and also hard to know what is lacking. To the farmers of sanet- I know that the fields keep you very busy, but if you would have a minute to tell me who is part of your support cluster and also what seems to be missing, I would greatly appreciate it. Emily Young >From: "Lester Loam" >To: WILSONDO@phibred.com, lester_loam@hotmail.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: RE: Negative people? I don't think so ... >Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:14:32 EDT > >"Wilson, Dale" wrote: > >>What do think are the powerful forces trying to slam >>sustainable ag? > >First, like Michel, I want to thank you, Dale, for having thick skin and >hanging in. You are a very valuable part of this discussion. Please keep >it up. > >As far as forces go, I have a hard time naming names. I don't believe that >we are where we are because of some Tri-Lateral Commission conspiracy, nor >do I blame any individual, organization, corporation, politician or policy. >You can't. It's a lot more complicated than that. > >But make no mistake. There are forces slamming sustainable ag: > >The forces that make farmers choose short-term economics over long-term >stewardship. It shouldn't be either/or. The market should reward farmers >handsomely for thinking a lot farther ahead than the rest of us. > >The forces that make it next to impossible for a new generation of farmers >to work the land. > >The forces that tend to "homogenize" production practices over larger and >larger areas, instead of relying on the ingenuity of people to craft >farming >systems that are truly site-specific. (Please don't tell me that precision >ag is already doing this. All it's doing is helping big farms "tighten up >the nozzles" a little on their corn and bean rotations, if you can call >that >a rotation.) > >The forces that have made hogs back-breakers instead of mortgage-lifters, >and keep cows standing around on concrete eating hot rations. > >The forces that brought us the "Freedom to Fail" act of 1996. It was >designed to get government out of farming, but it's doing a better job of >getting farmers out of farming -- especially those who lack the deep >pockets >to weather poor markets. > >The forces that continue to reduce the number of farmers even though >overall >production tends to increase with the "eyes-to-acres" ratio, a fact that >many who profess that they want to feed the world tend to ignore. > >The forces that keep consumers ignorant (or at least uncaring) about how >their food choices affect their own health and the health of their planet. > >The forces that keep poor farmers in developing countries poor, or at least >tie their fate to the vagaries of world markets. > >I'm sure you can think of more. > >There are forces doing all that. But they are too complex to attribute to >any one thing. Complex answers defy simple solutions, or rather they defy >ONE simple solution. > >But many simple solutions can change things. I've seen some that address >each of those forces offered here on sanet. That's why I keep dropping in. > >Lester > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 18:25:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09017 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA24287 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:20:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kirkwood.hoosier.net (IDENT:simmonsm@kirkwood.hoosier.net [206.106.64.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA24175 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (simmonsm@localhost) by kirkwood.hoosier.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21212; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:19:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:19:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. H. Michael Simmons" X-Sender: simmonsm@kirkwood.hoosier.net To: Nancy Haycock cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: cover crop help In-Reply-To: <379F6006.210A2C22@pratt.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1857 Nancy, I seed winter rye as late as early November in Bloomington, Indiana, with good germination results. You should check with your local extension agent for specific advice in your area. Michael ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ H. Michael Simmons, Ph.D. Community Garden Project Bloomington Parks and Recreation P. O. Box 848 Bloomington, IN 47402 (812) 349-3737 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 19:26:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA11089 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA16779 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:36:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA16700 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA14591; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:34:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-160.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.160) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014546; Wed Jul 28 17:34:02 1999 Message-ID: <001e01bed948$b9c94280$a0fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Dr. H. Michael Simmons" , "Nancy Haycock" Cc: Subject: Re: cover crop help Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:29:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1858 I think that we procrastinated our winter rye planting as well into Sept or even October in Massachusetts not to far off in weather from New York. You might just be able to plant. Good Good luck in your new venture. We are in our second year. I sit here with the tub filling 'cause I am covered pretty much head to toe in dirt oh excuse me soil :). Beth >Nancy, > > I seed winter rye as late as early November in Bloomington, Indiana, >with good germination results. You should check with your local extension >agent for specific advice in your area. > >Michael > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >H. Michael Simmons, Ph.D. >Community Garden Project >Bloomington Parks and Recreation >P. O. Box 848 >Bloomington, IN 47402 >(812) 349-3737 > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 22:46:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA13991 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA24990 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:47:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA24922 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990729014719.XIPC17489.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:47:19 -0700 Message-ID: <379FB341.A535EE9F@home.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:49:53 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, nhaycock@pratt.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1174 References: <199907282210.SAA28011@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1859 Ph of the soil is dependent on the base saturation of 4 elements on the soil colloid; Magnesium,,Potassium, Calcium, and Sodium. Prolly 1 ton per acre of calcium carbonate lime (fine grind- like flour)wood help......but,to lime w/o considering the base saturations of these four elements, can get u into trouble.Your ph could be 6.5 (ideal right?) but have virtually no Ca,,,,the backbone in all plants..... Id find a soil lab that w/ analyze the ph in these terms. You might also read books by William Albrecht and Kinsey available thru ACRES USA. billevans > I'm just in contract to buy a farm in Hobart, New York (about 30 miles > south of Albany), where I'm planning to grow organic vegetables. This > is a new phase of my life and I'm looking for advice. I won't take > possession until probably September 7th, and I know that is very late to > think about putting in a cover crop. BUT, the soil pH is 5.5 or so, To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Jul 28 23:21:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA13991 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA24990 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:47:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA24922 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990729014719.XIPC17489.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:47:19 -0700 Message-ID: <379FB341.A535EE9F@home.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:49:53 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, nhaycock@pratt.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1174 References: <199907282210.SAA28011@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1860 Ph of the soil is dependent on the base saturation of 4 elements on the soil colloid; Magnesium,,Potassium, Calcium, and Sodium. Prolly 1 ton per acre of calcium carbonate lime (fine grind- like flour)wood help......but,to lime w/o considering the base saturations of these four elements, can get u into trouble.Your ph could be 6.5 (ideal right?) but have virtually no Ca,,,,the backbone in all plants..... Id find a soil lab that w/ analyze the ph in these terms. You might also read books by William Albrecht and Kinsey available thru ACRES USA. billevans > I'm just in contract to buy a farm in Hobart, New York (about 30 miles > south of Albany), where I'm planning to grow organic vegetables. This > is a new phase of my life and I'm looking for advice. I won't take > possession until probably September 7th, and I know that is very late to > think about putting in a cover crop. BUT, the soil pH is 5.5 or so, To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 03:48:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA18906 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 03:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA22490 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 03:09:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA22414 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 03:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16141; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:09:55 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03028; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:09:36 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 29 Jul 99 09:04:39 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 29 Jul 99 09:03:12 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: Jim Quinton , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:03:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1171 Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <8B8AE476EE7@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1861 hi jim, you wrote: >I have never met Dale, but after looking over this little rejoinder >I'd rather meet him than meet Alex.... what a vicious little twit! if you cannot convince by facts, show others, what a famous insulter you can be !!! why do people not take a look into papers from the experts instead of just claiming false statements out of the blue ? so let's have a look into the national library of medicine in bethesda (i did it 3 years ago, data should not have changed significantly in these 3 years): ---- U.S. Cancer Incidence and Deaths in 1992, and the Percent Change in Age-Adjusted Rates of Incidence and Death per 100,000 U.S. Population, 1950-1992. . . -----ALL RACES------- ------WHITES--------- Cancer Incidence Deaths Percent Percent type in 1992 in 1992 change in change in . (estimated) incidence, deaths, . 1950-1992 1950-1992 ---------------------------------------------------------------- stomach 24,400 13,630 -74.8 -77.6 cervix 13,500 4,641 -76.6 -74.5 rectum 45,000 7,785 -21.3 -66.9 colon 111,000 49,204 +21.6 -15.0 larynx 12,500 3,966 +50.9 -7.4 testicles 6,300 355 +113.6 -69.6 bladder 51,600 10,705 +57.1 -34.8 Hodgkin's disease 7,400 1,639 +17.3 -67.8 childhood cancers 7,800 1,679 +4.9 -62.4 leukemias 28,200 19,417 +8.7 -2.1 thyroid 12,500 1,111 +115.3 -49.5 ovaries 21,000 13,181 +5.2 +2.5 lung 168,000 145,801 +267.4 +264.0 skin melanomas 32,000 6,568 +393.3 +155.0 breast (female) 180,000 43,063 +55.9 +0.2 prostate 132,000 34,238 +266.4 +20.7 kidney 26,500 10,427 +120.6 +37.2 liver 15,400 9,554 +107.3 +22.8 non-Hodgkin's lymphomas 41,000 20,058 +183.6 +123.1 multiple myeloma 12,500 9,247 +235.8 +194.0 brain 16,900 11,941 +85.2 +50.4 pancreas 28,300 26,070 +13.6 +17.8 . All types ex- 962,000 374,747 +40.8 -15.0 cluding lung . All types 1,130,000 520,548 +54.3 +9.6 ================= Source: C.L. Kosary and others, editors, SEER CANCER STATISTICS REVIEW 1973-1992 [National Institutes of Health Publication No. 96-2789] (Bethesda, MD: National Cancer Institute, 1992), Table I-3, pg. 17. NIH says historical data for non-whites are not considered reliable spanning the period 1950-1992 so historical data are only given for whites. ------------------- this is in no way a definite proof, that pesticides do NOT cause cancer, but it is a proof, that the statement "every 2. american dies by cancer" is not correct and montagues information are also wrong (no. 1 WAS and WILL be lung cancer). otherwise this would mean: 80 millions americans total population. it would be wrong to downplay the problem, but let us stay by the facts. if you ask toxicologists, they would tell you, that they would expect a rising cancer rate in kidney and liver cancers and leukemias due to pesticide exposures and in fact that's, what IS really happening. but anybody ever asked the question, if exactly these kind of cancers also would be expected by uptake of mycotoxins, drugs, alcohol ? mycotoxins: in germany on the rise (heavily) due to increasing monoculture of cereals and especially corn. how's the situation in america ? a good argument for a good mixture of fruits, a bad one for minimal tillage. and looking at the prices here for unsubstituted market fruits: no solution for farmers under financial pressure... ------------- (for misha, who posted the information about fusarium against cannabis: greenberg mr. martell j. ethical dilemmas and solutions for risk assessment scientists journal of exposure analysis & environmental epidemiology. 2(4):381-389, 1992 oct/dec. a sample survey of u.s. scientists who belong to the society for risk analysis (sra) was made to ascertain their observations of unethical behavior in the workplace and their opinions of the likely success of programs to prevent misconduct. sra, an international organization with almost 1,700 u.s. members, includes toxicologists, epidemiologists, industrial hygienists, engineers, and social scientists, as well as experts in exposure assessment, statistics, and risk communications. respondents reported relatively low rates of clearly unethical acts such as data destruction and fabrication (7%); however, 21% reported at least one observation of plagiarism. reporting of other problematic behaviors ranged from less than 4% for human subjects violations to 51% observing deliberate overstatement of positive and deliberate understatement of negative results. sra members did not think that government intervention would be effective in reducing misconduct. they were more supportive of formal education, seminars, videotapes, and a hotline that could be called for advice. which means: please don't believe everything you read. it's good to have one's eyes wide open like you do (and many thanks for your "personalized" mails like the one with the dandy driver and the homeless - i really enjoy them very much !! what would live be with nothing but facts and without personality ?), but my experience is, that most of these announcements is pure hype (the principle: publish or perish). it's an ugly trend and in my opinion those 7% are no LOW rate and the believe of self regulation among the scientific community is nothing but a nice wish. you may believe in it, but you mustn't !! ------------- drugs (medical and recreational): rising ! alcohol: last month i had a talk with a friend (a professor, who passed the last year as a guest professor in pharmaceutics at the university of san diego). he told me, he was shocked about the amount of alcohol, which is consumed in america and with a smile he said, that he would expect the americans to disappear in the next century mostly due to impotence and to liver cancer (he laughed, which means: a LARGE grain of truth) and finally nutrition: i found the following article in "bild der wissenschaft" (the german edition of "scientific american", you also should find it there in one of the last editions): Droht Handelskrieg um Gen-Food? "Amerikanische Lebensmittel die schlechtesten der Welt." translation: trade war about gene-food ? "American food the badest in the world" i did not forget the question mark behind the last sentence, there wasn't any !! which finally brings me back to the most important question (and back on topic of sustainable agriculture): how would you define QUALITY OF FOOD ???? it certainly isn't mere absence of toxins and pesticides or the presence of all vitamins and minerals. but what is food quality really ??? (beside a very good argument for the farmer for convincing the "couch potato" to invest some more money in healthy food and less money in entertainment.) comments please... (i think it a VERY important argument for a change in breeding targets, pure breeding for high yield seems to be a "no win" for nobody! example: the rapes low in glucosinolates are good for weight gain of animals, but as it seems to turn out quite bad for human nutrition, as these ingredients have a positive effect on cancer reduction. so the circle to the initial cancer rates is closed again ;-))) klaus --------------- klaus wiegand +-[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]-----------+ | | | ERST WENN DAS LETZT COREL-CLIPART VERBRAUCHT IST | | WERDET IHR BEMERKEN, DASS SPEISEKARTEN NICHT WEH | | TUN MUESSEN! | +-----------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 05:37:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA19922 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 05:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA29735 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:52:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nornet.nor.com.au (nornet.nor.com.au [203.15.154.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA29602 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ahotson (ppp179.nor.com.au [203.15.154.99]) by nornet.nor.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA21311 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:51:44 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <030a01bed99f$b33d0260$509a0fcb@ahotson> From: "Anthony Hotson" To: "Sanet" Subject: Paramagnetism? Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:52:30 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0307_01BED9F3.829D9BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1862 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0307_01BED9F3.829D9BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was wondering if anyone could help me: I heard reference the other day to 'paramagnetism' of basaltic materials = in, and as an amendment to, soils... and the ability of such materials = to influence nutrient availability and/or plant health/vigour. Is anyone familiar with the specifics of this theory and just what this = 'paramagnetic' influence is. =20 I farm on the basaltic red krasnozem soils of the ex-rainforest region = of Nth NSW Australia (Sub-tropical) and have heard anecdotes of = hail-attracting bands of basalt in various localities here. Is this a = part of this effect too? Any pointers as to where a might find more information much appreciated. Thanks, Anthony. Tuckombil Native Foods PO Box 281 ALSTONVILLE NSW 2477 AUSTRALIA ahotson@nor.com.au Fax/Tel +61 2 6628 5558 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0307_01BED9F3.829D9BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I was wondering if anyone could help me:
     
    I heard reference the other day to 'paramagnetism' of basaltic = materials=20 in, and as an amendment to, soils... and the ability of such materials = to=20 influence nutrient availability and/or plant health/vigour.
     
    Is anyone familiar with the specifics of this theory and just what = this=20 'paramagnetic' influence is. 
     
    I farm on the basaltic red krasnozem soils of the ex-rainforest = region of=20 Nth NSW Australia (Sub-tropical) and have heard anecdotes of = hail-attracting=20 bands of basalt in various localities here.  Is this a part of this = effect=20 too?
     
    Any pointers as to where a might find more information much=20 appreciated.
     
    Thanks,
    Anthony.
     
     
    Tuckombil Native Foods
    PO Box 281
    ALSTONVILLE NSW=20 2477
    AUSTRALIA
    ahotson@nor.com.au
    Fax/Tel = ; =20 +61 2 6628 5558 
    ------=_NextPart_000_0307_01BED9F3.829D9BC0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 09:17:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23224 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA09138 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:19:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09041 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0030.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.30]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15208; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 05:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379DDA1B.431C504@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:11:07 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lester Loam CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Negative people? I don't think so ... References: <19990727141140.76326.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1863 Maybe Mr. Wilson is referring to me--maybe I flatter myself. But there is one error afloat. The real Apocalypse is the one the Bible describes, and it is the second best news the world has ever heard. The number 1 best news is that this Apocalypse is to be done by the Creator, and will be immediately followed by the restoration of Eden, worldwide. Maybe people should be more careful about the terms they use. If you use a term from the Bible, you should make clear the main point the Bible makes about the apocalyptic Armageddon--that it will instantly be followed by restoration of total perfection--Eden again and this time forever. No point in complaining that I bring up the Bible on an organic list--every bit of ag in Bible times WAS organic, and will be totally so, forever, following the Apocalypse. And I did not start this--he did. Lester Loam wrote: > Dale Wilson wrote: > > >This list is filled with negative people, apparently worshipping >the > >coming apocalypse. > > Dale: > > I beg to differ. Most of the people on sanet and most in the sustainable ag > community are among the most positive people I know. They don't worship the > apocalypse. They're doing all they can to make sure that it doesn't happen > in their lifetime or anytime in the near future. > > I'm not trying to speak for all, but I think most in the sustainable ag > community have a strong, clear and positive vision of the world as it could > be. They see the small percentage of farmers who have broken from the > conventional paradigm (or never embraced it) and are forging sustainable > operations that are economically and environmentally sustainable -- or at > least closer to it than the run-of-the-mill farm. They envision what the > world would look like if this were the rule, rather than the exception, and > they like what they see. > > They see thriving rural communities. They see humane livestock systems. > They see a global food system that is just and provides everyone with > sufficient, secure and healthful food supplies. > > This is not an apocalyptic vision. Utopian, maybe. But not doom and gloom. > > If you sense negativity from this group, it is possibly because they are > negative about business as usual. It might be that they are negative about > the tactics you embrace to reach your somewhat different vision of a > sustainable future. > > Are sustainable ag people defensive? You bet. I think that perhaps a > decade ago, they were encouraged that there appeared to be bridges to their > sustainable vision. But lately, very powerful forces appear to be trying to > slam the door shut on their vision. It's easy to get defensive when you see > the window of opportunity shrinking on your vision. > > Consequently, you hear a lot more criticism of what's happening today than > you hear about the positive vision of the future. Is that what you > interpret as negativity? > > Lester > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 09:22:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23374 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA09630 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:20:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA09560 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:15:31 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:11:24 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, nhaycock@pratt.edu Subject: Re: cover crop help? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1864 Nancy, You don't say what is on the land right now (in terms of cover), but if the part you want to till is really 15% slope, I'd suggest you consider not doing it in September. If you decide to till it in the fall, do it as early as possible and try to get a cover crop going right away. Also, be prepared to straw mulch if you don't get a really good cover crop established (or if some heavy fall rainstorms come in before it has a closed "canopy"). I'm not sure about the liming timing. Maybe others could tell whether it could be put on in the spring, instead. Also, how important it is to incorporate it into the soil (ie, can lime be a top-dressing, or applied before mulching, effectively?). Good luck on your new enterprise. BOB To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 09:28:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA23525 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA17763 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:37:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gov.pe.ca (islandtelecom20-4.islandtelecom.com [142.176.20.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA17690 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PEIGOVT-Message_Server by gov.pe.ca with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:32:36 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:28:46 -0400 From: Bob MacGregor To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Beware of Greeks bearing... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1865 The following showed up on AgNet. I guess truth really is stranger than fiction sometimes. BOB ************************************************************* GREEKS SPRAY INSECTICIDE ON ECO-TOURISTS July 28, 1999 Reuters CORFU, Greece -- A group of vegetarian, health-conscious eco-tourists from Germany got a rude surprise during breakfast when Greek crop-dusters dumped insecticide on them, the tour's organizer said Wednesday. Dirk Stoller, who books environment tours on the Greek holiday island of Corfu, told Reuters his clients had been quietly enjoying the view of olive groves from their balconies when they were suddenly engulfed. "My customers were sprayed with poison from above," he said. "They have pictures." Two of the tourists filed a lawsuit against local authorities charging that such crop dusting is illegal in the European Union, said Stoller. He said the tourist group was eating organic food at the time of the incident which occurred last week. ! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 10:16:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA25112 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18834 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:29:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f226.hotmail.com [216.32.181.226]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA18715 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19478 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jul 1999 13:28:40 -0000 Message-ID: <19990729132840.19477.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 24.95.191.247 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 06:28:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [24.95.191.247] From: "Lester Loam" To: emily_e_young@hotmail.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: obstacles to sustainable ag Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:28:39 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1866 "Emily Young" wrote: >...What do sustainable agriculture farmers need that they don't now have? >Specifically, can you think of a niche for a business or a group that would >support farmers? or make essential partners? I have been looking into >farming co-ops, food processing plants, distribution firms, >education/training, business incubators, and information systems companies >for sustainable agriculture, ... These all sound like good ideas, especially if they help farmers get a larger percentage of what consumers spend on food and there is incentive for farmers to think and act for the long-term. We must exercise care that these new marketing channels don't pick up some of the bad havits of the old system. For example, just because there is a great market for organic soybeans, farmers should resist the temptation to plant more than their farming system can handle. (Beans aren't great for erosion-prone soils.) Middlemen must resist the temptation to skim off too much profit at the expense of farmgate prices. The ultimate partnership that must be forged is between farmers and consumers. If you survey sustainable farmers, you'll find one of the big needs that they express is to educate more consumers to value what they produce and be willing to pay what it's worth. (I don't have a citation for this. But I think if you check out the surveys done by the Organic Farming Research Foundation, you'll find something like this.) I don't want to speak for Greg Gunthorp (a frequent sanet contributor), but I think that's what he's trying to do. He's got hogs raised in a way that is kind to the environment (as well as low cost). Now he's trying to find a way to get them to consumers who think what he's doing is a good idea. Sustainable farmers need a bigger pool of consumers willing to go out of their way to do this, and they need help with the logistics of getting these products to those consumers. In this age of fast food, mega-supermarkets with slotting fees, and consumers who are too busy to cook very much, this is no small task. Lester _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 12:02:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28023 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21541 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:10:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21392 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0412.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.157]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19306; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A06135.5D5DD769@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:12:05 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net CC: SANET-mg Subject: Re: heating cooking oil causes cancer References: <379E9083.FCF99FBC@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------52F50A2CC949F52D49D11B02" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1867 --------------52F50A2CC949F52D49D11B02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How good and kind people are to provide the data someone insisted that I provide. Thanks so much. --------------------------------------- Bunny Snow wrote: > Wilson, Dale wrote: > > < eliminate the > effects of smoking and longevity, most cancer rates have stayed the > same.>> > > Stephen Maxam (stevem@nh.ultranet.com) wrote: > > < certain cancers not related to smoking or longevity that have risen > considerably in the last several decades. Anybody have anything > definitive on this? ~Stephen Maxam > > Stephen, > > This may be the information for which you are looking. I urge everyone > to go to this URL, where not only a great summary has been cited from > the documents (some which I have in my possession) but there is an > interesting chart, as well. > > Don't forget, only laboratory animals may receive one pesticide or other > chemical at a time, for which they are being tested. That is not the > case in the real world. We are all bombarded by possibly tens of > thousands of different chemicals, since American industry uses some > 80,000 chemicals each year. > Furthermore, not all chemicals cause cancer. Some cause genetic damage, > others are immunotoxins, many pesticides are neurotoxins and one can > still die of neurotoxins! Many cause liver, kidney or other organ > damage or cancer, some ingredients within pesticides are suggested to > cause blood disease. The lists go on and on. ~Bunny Snow > > See, > http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/bulletin.cfm?Issue_ID=573&bulletin_ID=48 > > And here are the references: > > [1] Source: C.L. Kosary and others, editors, SEER CANCER STATISTICS > REVIEW 1973-1992 [National Institutes of Health Publication No. 96- > 2789] (Bethesda, Md.: National Cancer Institute, 1995), Table I-3, pg. > 17. NIH says historical data for non-whites are not considered reliable > spanning the period 1950-1992 so historical data are only given for > whites. > > [2] Susan S. Devesa and others, "Recent Cancer Trends in the United > States," JOURNAL OF THE NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE Vol. 87, No. 3 > (February 1, 1995), pgs. 175-182. > > [3] Lynn A. Gloeckler Ries and others, "Cancer incidence, mortality, and > patient survival in the United States," in David Schottenfeld and Joseph > F.Fraumeni, Jr., editors, CANCER EPIDEMIOLOGY AND PREVENTION [SECOND > EDITION] (New York: Oxford University Press, 1996), pgs. 168-191. > > [4] John W. Horm and others, "Cancer incidence, mortality, and survival > among racial and ethnic minority groups in the United States," in David > Schottenfeld and Joseph F. Fraumeni, Jr., editors, CANCER EPIDEMIOLOGY > AND PREVENTION [SECOND EDITION] (New York: > Oxford University Press, 1996), pgs. 192-235. > > [5] David B. Thomas and Margaret K. Karagas, "Migrant studies," in David > Schottenfeld and Joseph F. Fraumeni, Jr., editors, CANCER EPIDEMIOLOGY > AND PREVENTION [SECOND EDITION] (New York: Oxford University Press, > 1996), pgs. 236-254. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------52F50A2CC949F52D49D11B02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How good and kind people are to provide the data someone insisted that I provide. Thanks so much.
    ---------------------------------------

    Bunny Snow wrote:

    Wilson, Dale wrote:

    <<As you requested from Bargyla, "let's see the data." Once you
    eliminate the
    effects of smoking and longevity, most cancer rates have stayed the
    same.>>

    Stephen Maxam (stevem@nh.ultranet.com) wrote:

    <<I can't call up any data, but I'm quite sure I've seen references to
    certain cancers not related to smoking or longevity that have risen
    considerably in the last several decades. Anybody have anything
    definitive on this? ~Stephen Maxam

    Stephen,

    This may be the information for which you are looking.  I urge everyone
    to go to this URL, where not only a great summary has been cited from
    the documents (some which I have in my possession) but there is an
    interesting chart, as well.

    Don't forget, only laboratory animals may receive one pesticide or other
    chemical at a time, for which they are being tested.  That is not the
    case in the real world.  We are all bombarded by possibly tens of
    thousands of different chemicals, since American industry uses some
    80,000 chemicals each year.
    Furthermore, not all chemicals cause cancer.  Some cause genetic damage,
    others are immunotoxins, many pesticides are neurotoxins and one can
    still die of neurotoxins!  Many cause liver, kidney or other organ
    damage or cancer, some ingredients within pesticides are suggested to
    cause blood disease.  The lists go on and on.  ~Bunny Snow

    See,
    http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/bulletin.cfm?Issue_ID=573&bulletin_ID=48

    And here are the references:

    [1] Source: C.L. Kosary and others, editors, SEER CANCER STATISTICS
    REVIEW 1973-1992 [National Institutes of Health Publication No. 96-
    2789] (Bethesda, Md.: National Cancer Institute, 1995), Table I-3, pg.
    17. NIH says historical data for non-whites are not considered reliable
    spanning the period 1950-1992 so historical data are only given for
    whites.

    [2] Susan S. Devesa and others, "Recent Cancer Trends in the United
    States," JOURNAL OF THE NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE Vol. 87, No. 3
    (February 1, 1995), pgs. 175-182.

    [3] Lynn A. Gloeckler Ries and others, "Cancer incidence, mortality, and
    patient survival in the United States," in David Schottenfeld and Joseph
    F.Fraumeni, Jr., editors, CANCER EPIDEMIOLOGY AND PREVENTION [SECOND
    EDITION] (New York: Oxford University Press, 1996), pgs. 168-191.

    [4] John W. Horm and others, "Cancer incidence, mortality, and survival
    among racial and ethnic minority groups in the United States," in David
    Schottenfeld and Joseph F. Fraumeni, Jr., editors, CANCER EPIDEMIOLOGY
    AND PREVENTION [SECOND EDITION] (New York:
    Oxford University Press, 1996), pgs. 192-235.

    [5] David B. Thomas and Margaret K. Karagas, "Migrant studies," in David
    Schottenfeld and Joseph F. Fraumeni, Jr., editors, CANCER EPIDEMIOLOGY
    AND PREVENTION [SECOND EDITION] (New York:  Oxford University Press,
    1996), pgs. 236-254.

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      --------------52F50A2CC949F52D49D11B02-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 12:04:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28058 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21308 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:10:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21301 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0412.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.157]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18766; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A04C32.3EF3692D@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 05:42:26 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob MacGregor CC: rnn@rnn.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: request for information References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1868 Maybe the Opuntia was introduced. I suppose the answer is published somewhere, I don't know. But that would be strange in that place, 60 km inland, in an arid region where there was no agricultural business---no one ever sold any plant food from there--it was so far inland, so hot and dry. Yes, just the right place for Opuntia, true. The persons who might have had that answer are no longer living. Strangely, I am outliving all these people. But the cactus just took over. It was everywhere, before the importation of that insect. That made it hard for the natives who counted on cactus to feed the cattle. Bob MacGregor wrote: > But wasn't the cactus an introduced species in the first place (Opuntia sp.)? My recollection is that the cacti are all new-world species. So, in that sense, it was a pest or weed displacing native species -- same thing in Australia with cactus, European rabbits, etc. > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 12:15:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28421 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:18:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25461 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.138] (st-ppp29.hevanet.com [198.5.254.138]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA12968; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907291517.IAA12968@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:20:09 -0700 Subject: FW: New Tests Diagnose Bluetongue From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1869 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Tests Diagnose Bluetongue Date: Thu, Jul 29, 1999, 6:49 AM STORY LEAD: New Tests Quickly Diagnose Bluetongue, Related Diseases ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Kathryn Barry Stelljes, (510) 559-6069, stelljes@asrr.arsusda.gov July 29, 1999 ----------- New laboratory tests will allow scientists, regulators and livestock producers to quickly identify animals with bluetongue or epizootic hemorrhagic disease (EHD). ARS scientists in Laramie, Wyo., have developed the first single genetic test that distinguishes all five types of the virus that causes bluetongue in the U.S. They've also developed rapid tests that distinguish bluetongue from EHD. Bluetongue, so named because it can cause a loss of oxygen and a blue tinge to the tongue, affects sheep, goats, deer, elk and antelope. Cattle can carry the virus, usually without becoming ill. Worldwide, there are 24 strains of bluetongue virus. Countries without bluetongue strictly regulate import and export of livestock and related products, costing U.S. producers about $125 million annually. Previous tests were not always definitive, requiring additional testing. The new test, developed by ARS microbiologist William C. Wilson, reduces the time it takes to identify the virus type from several days to a single day. All official bluetongue testing in the U.S. is performed at the USDA's National Veterinary Service Laboratory in Ames, Iowa, and the lab has incorporated Wilson's test into its procedures. Wilson and ARS microbiologist James O. Mecham also developed tests that identify the two types of EHD present in the U.S. and distinguish them from bluetongue viruses. Both scientists work at ARS' Arthropod-Borne Animal Diseases Research Laboratory in Laramie. EHD can cause a bluetongue-like disease in cattle and is often fatal to white-tailed deer. Correctly identifying which virus an animal harbors is important for trade purposes. There is no cure for either bluetongue or EHD. ARS is USDA's chief scientific research agency. A detailed story on the research appears in the agency's July Agricultural Research magazine and on the Internet at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jul99/blue0799.htm ---------- Scientific contacts: William C. Wilson or James O. Mecham, ARS Arthropod-Borne Animal Diseases Research Laboratory, Laramie, Wyo., phone (307) 766-3600, fax (307) 766-3500, wcwilson@uwyo.edu (Wilson) jmecham@uwyo.edu (Mecham). ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 14:17:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA00938 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09072 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:17:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08883 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:16:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA17035 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990729132431.007f65a0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:24:31 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Translating Klaus In-Reply-To: <199907291513.LAA22900@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1870 Hey Klaus, Can you translate your quote of the day? Here is what the Altavisat translator said. I don't think it is what you meant! Mark ONLY IF THAT IS USED UP LASTLY COREL CLIPART BECOMES YOUR NOTICING THAT BILLS OF FARE NOT PAIN DOING HAVING ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 14:30:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01157 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:30:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28561 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:47:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28497 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FAC997@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:44:04 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 29 Jul 99 13:46:37 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 29 Jul 99 13:46:30 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:46:25 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: killer weeds In-reply-to: <199907232210.SAA18324@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <62ECFA12484@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1871 > In Dan Glickman's recent speech about biotech to the National Press Club, > he states the following: > > "Agricultural biotechnology has enourmous potential to help combat hunger. > Genetically modified plants have the potential to resist killer weeds that > are, literally, starving people in Africa and other parts of the developing > world." > > Does anyone have information about what killer weeds he's talking about? Personally I think he must be talking about ones like the species Politicious corruptous. :-) Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 14:35:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01236 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA24643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:41:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24473 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FAC879@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:38:35 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 29 Jul 99 13:41:08 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 29 Jul 99 13:40:41 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:40:39 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: What's your problem? In-reply-to: <199907232210.SAA18324@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <62EB6D86B45@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1872 > I'm doing a some informal research and could use a bit of information from > any and all list members. All I need is: > Where you live (city and state, or even just the general area in the state) > > What fruits you grow. (kind of fruit and varieties) > > What diseases you have to deal with (or are in the area) > > How you deal with them (resistant varieties, spray, cultural methods, etc.) Lon -- are you aware of the giant survey that the Organic Farming Research Foundation (OFRF) in Santa Cruz, CA has conducted every two years since 1993? So far, there are three survey results available (from '93, '95 and '97) and although the survey has changed in format (getting better and more complete each time) and scope (the first one is regional, the last two are national), much of what you are looking for has been surveyed there already. Depending on what you're doing with the information, you may want to look into this. Anita University of Georgia To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 14:42:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA01401 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA23440 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:40:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from guppy.pond.net (guppy.pond.net [205.240.25.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA23311 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from thwacky (pAp19.pond.net [207.149.187.19]) by guppy.pond.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA13818 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990729103931.0092bd30@mail.pond.net> X-Sender: kdowney@mail.pond.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:42:15 -0700 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "K. Downey, OMRI" Subject: OMRI Job Posting--closes September 9 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1873 Employment Opportunities--the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) is currently experiencing tremendous growth and is seeking qualified applicants for full and part time work, including and in addition to this and another job currently posted. Salary is commensurate with experience and ability. Experience in organic certification, materials use on the farm and in the processing facility, farming research, agronomy, food and veterinary science, information systems management, and other similar work will be considered. __OMRI Projects Coordinator Job Description__ The Project Coordinators duties relate to developing and organizing data about generic materials and specific products for use in organic food and fiber production and handling. The Project Coordinator reports to the Executive Director and provides support services to the Technical Director and Policy Director. It is a permanent position for 30 to 40 hours a week starting at $10/hr. __Duties__ * Maintaining files on all topics relating to generic materials on OMRIs list: keeping correspondence, research articles, and other paperwork by subject. * Library research relating to organic farming and processing materials as directed by OMRI staff. * Implementing mailings to Advisory Council members as directed by Policy Director. * Assisting with writing background papers. * Special projects with the Technical Director. These may include maintaining databases, data entry, research, writing, correspondence with brand name product applicants, and other activities. * Communications with OMRIs applicants and subscribers about content of OMRIs program: answering questions about generic materials, preliminary determination of whether applicants should apply, screening questions to go forward to other staff. * Logging all details from above communications that need to be directed towards policy or technical work. * Other projects as designated by the Executive Director. __Qualifications Needed__ * College-level education or equivalent with science or agriculture specialization. * Basic knowledge of agriculture, especially soil fertility and pest management. * Strong communications skills, both verbal and written. * Familiarity with library research methods. * Computer skills including databases, e-mail, and word processing. * Experience with or knowledge of organic farming is not required but is desirable. __To Apply__ The OMRI web site, at www.omri.org, contains information on our work, or call us at 541-343-7600 for information. Please send a cover letter, resume or curriculum vitae, four references that we may contact via phone, and a sample of your writing skills to Kathleen Downey, Executive Director, Organic Materials Review Institute, Box 11558, Eugene OR 97440 USA. Job closes September 9, 1999. Posted 7/29/99 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 15:26:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA02552 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA20689 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:24:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20685 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-9-7.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.103]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA13879; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:29:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199907291829.NAA13879@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Lester Loam" Cc: Subject: Re: obstacles to sustainable ag Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:24:19 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1874 Exactly. Its all about educating consumers who are primarily interested in convenience and cost with little or no regard for quality of their food and the impact of their purchases on environmental and social issues. Best wishes, Greg P.S. Me and another farmer have been making a weekly trip to Chicago to sell pork and eggs. Its been going pretty well. We are still working out the logistics of selling chickens. (Processing and distribution is a serious problem of farmer direct marketing.) I've been roasting at least one pig each weekend. It has not been an easy task but we are very near not needing a commodity hog market. Next weekend will be our first two events to go and sell pork sandwiches and kielbasa. We just picked up our new concession trailer (and Licensed kitchen) this Monday. It has been fun working with various health departments to get permits to cook and process our pork. (Regulations and even knowledge of the rules by various health departments and FSIS are also a serious obstacle for small farmers.) I think Joel Salitin is right that in the end it is the persistent that succeed. Very soon we will put up a post about our 3rd annual field day. It will be the 21st of August. The meal (roast pork) will start at 2:00. Come and join us for a farm tour, presentations on sustainable agriculture by area farmers, a consumer, land grant, and a rural advocy group. We expect USDA officials, state and national legislators, Farm orginization representatives, prominent midwest chefs, and consumers. ---------- > From: Lester Loam > To: emily_e_young@hotmail.com > Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: obstacles to sustainable ag > Date: Thursday, July 29, 1999 8:28 AM > > "Emily Young" wrote: > > >...What do sustainable agriculture farmers need that they don't now have? > >Specifically, can you think of a niche for a business or a group that would > >support farmers? or make essential partners? I have been looking into > >farming co-ops, food processing plants, distribution firms, > >education/training, business incubators, and information systems companies > >for sustainable agriculture, ... > > These all sound like good ideas, especially if they help farmers get a > larger percentage of what consumers spend on food and there is incentive for > farmers to think and act for the long-term. > > We must exercise care that these new marketing channels don't pick up some > of the bad havits of the old system. For example, just because there is a > great market for organic soybeans, farmers should resist the temptation to > plant more than their farming system can handle. (Beans aren't great for > erosion-prone soils.) Middlemen must resist the temptation to skim off too > much profit at the expense of farmgate prices. > > The ultimate partnership that must be forged is between farmers and > consumers. If you survey sustainable farmers, you'll find one of the big > needs that they express is to educate more consumers to value what they > produce and be willing to pay what it's worth. (I don't have a citation for > this. But I think if you check out the surveys done by the Organic Farming > Research Foundation, you'll find something like this.) > > I don't want to speak for Greg Gunthorp (a frequent sanet contributor), but > I think that's what he's trying to do. He's got hogs raised in a way that > is kind to the environment (as well as low cost). Now he's trying to find a > way to get them to consumers who think what he's doing is a good idea. > > Sustainable farmers need a bigger pool of consumers willing to go out of > their way to do this, and they need help with the logistics of getting these > products to those consumers. In this age of fast food, mega-supermarkets > with slotting fees, and consumers who are too busy to cook very much, this > is no small task. > > Lester > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 17:06:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04976 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA18474 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:04:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA18370 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA07529 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [4.9.122.12] (PPPa62-NewYorkB5-2R163.saturn.bbn.com [4.9.122.12]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA22058 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:02:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: corevaluesne@pop2.igc.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: corevaluesne@mothers.org (CORE Values Northeast) Subject: Job Posting/M&O Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1875 Please post POSITION AVAILABLE August 1999 Mothers & Others for a Livable Planet, a nonprofit environmental and consumer education organization, seeks full time membership coordinator in New York. Responsibilities: maintain all processing/tracking/reporting systems related to member recruitment, fulfillment, renewals and special appeals; assist with developing materials and carrying out schedules; oversee staff data entry and retrieval; process/track member requests, including answering mail, phone and e-mail requests; serve as liaison with direct mail consultants and mailhouse. Skills required: experience in membership development and database management; self-motivated; a skilled writer; organized; detail-oriented; computer literate (FoxPro and FileMaker Pro); able to work with and assist others. Communication skills essential. Salary: to mid-$30K, commensurate with experience. To apply: Please send letter of interest and resume to Elisabeth Marx, Exec. Dir., Mothers & Others, 40 W. 20th St., New York, NY 10011-4211. Fax 212/242-0545. Mothers & Others is an equal opportunity employer. Women and people of color are encouraged to apply. Mothers & Others for a Livable Planet 40 West 20th Street New York, NY 10011 www.mothers.org/mothers Francine Stephens Program Associate Mothers & Others "Taking Our Planet Personally" To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 17:17:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05231 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA20300 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:08:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20283 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:10:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: Abiola Adeyemi Subject: FW: International Conference on Biotechnology in the Global Econo my Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:10:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1876 SANet: This message just hit my inbox, FYI. Be sure to scroll down to the conference information. Of interest may be the viewpoints section of this site, at http://www.cid.harvard.edu/cidbiotech/comments.htm, where you can add your own viewpoints. Here are titles of a couple of the views there: 19 July, 1999 Biotechnology to benefit small-scale farmers Matin Qaim, Center for Development Research (ZEF) University of Bonn, Germany 16 July, 1999 Impacts of biotechnology on the farming communities Manjula V. Guru, Agricultural Policy Specialist The Kerr Center for Sustainable Agriculture, Inc. Poteau, Oklahoma, USA Andy -----Original Message----- From: Calestous_Juma/FS/KSG@ksg.harvard.edu [mailto:Calestous_Juma/FS/KSG@ksg.harvard.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 12:03 PM Subject: International Conference on Biotechnology in the Global Economy For more information on the International Conference on Biotechnology in the Global Economy (2-3 September 1999) at Harvard University, please visit: http://www.cid.harvard.edu/cidbiotech/homepage.htm Best regards, Calestous Juma To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 17:20:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05286 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA26866 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:15:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA26798 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (root@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16270 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21853 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21849 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:14:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac6.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:14:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Brooks Gruver To: sanet Subject: farm visits in the Boston area Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1877 Hello to all... I hope this is an appropriate forum to post this message. I will be teaching an Agroecology course at Tufts University this fall and would like to line up approximately 4 field trips to farms within a reasonable driving distance of the Tufts campus in Medford, MA. I will be attending the NOFA conference August 13-15th in Amherst and if possible I would like to make some connections within the next 2 weeks so that I can visit the farms during this trip. I am looking for farms that have examples of the following: integrated livestock and cropping systems diverse crop rotations monitoring of pest populations on farm experimentation management of habitat for beneficials advantageous utilization of on-farm natural resource variability (e.g. microclimates, soil variability...) Please share this message with any Boston area farmers that you think might be interested in giving a tour to a group of 5-15 college students with varying levels of knowledge about agriculture. Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research University of Maryland jgruv@wam.umd.edu (301) 405 - 1497 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 17:40:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05774 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00772 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:25:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00703 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA19513 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:24:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-210.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.210) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019490; Thu Jul 29 15:24:16 1999 Message-ID: <001d01bed9ff$c943bc60$f9ff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: government and industry/and other topics of interest Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:20:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1878 http://www.gvocsa.org/umkeynote399.html The above is the text of a speech by Elizabeth Henderson, author,farmer, and one of the early people in the CSA movement. It contains interesting info about farm loss to big agribusiness and hopes for the furture of organic farming. Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 18:04:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06318 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA23921 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:04:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23885 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FAF50E@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:00:58 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 29 Jul 99 17:03:31 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 29 Jul 99 17:03:10 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:03:05 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: avoiding sauteed onions In-reply-to: <199907272023.QAA23264@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <63216E066B6@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1879 Dale wrote (in part) > Maybe I am missing some statistical nuance, but what you wrote about cancer > incidence doesn't seem to jive with this. > > I am not convinced. I am going to continue to eat roasted salmon, fried > onions, bratwurst, buttermilk pancakes etc. because they are so damn good. > We all have to make choices about what we choose to live with. There are certain practices which just aren't "sustainable" for everyone. I feel like I walk a pretty narrow path by buying every "organic" grocery item that's available here on my grocery list, among other things. However, there are many practices which are just beyond me. I certainly am not convinced that carmelized onions, burnt toast, etc. are enough of a threat that I'm going to avoid them in my diet. I also can't stand taking vitamins or any other pills, so anyone who's pushing a cure-all diet with supplements isn't going to get my attention. Neither can I imagine "juicing" every vegetable that comes in the house as some of my friends are promoting. There are many different levels of "sustainablity." Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 22:44:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10359 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA21798 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:26:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lserve.eharvest.com ([216.38.10.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA21698 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by LSERVE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:26:47 -0400 Message-ID: <21EE44311E24D31193F7009027731A80093FEA@LSERVE> From: Chris Lanteigne To: "'corevaluesne@mothers.org'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Job Posting/M&O Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:26:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1880 Francine: Try posting your job at http://careers.eharvest.com/ Check it out. Thousands of agri-professionals visit each week! Take care, Chris Lanteigne http://www.eHARVEST.com/ chrisL@eharvest.com -----Original Message----- From: corevaluesne@mothers.org [mailto:corevaluesne@mothers.org] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 4:03 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Job Posting/M&O Please post POSITION AVAILABLE August 1999 Mothers & Others for a Livable Planet, a nonprofit environmental and consumer education organization, seeks full time membership coordinator in New York. Responsibilities: maintain all processing/tracking/reporting systems related to member recruitment, fulfillment, renewals and special appeals; assist with developing materials and carrying out schedules; oversee staff data entry and retrieval; process/track member requests, including answering mail, phone and e-mail requests; serve as liaison with direct mail consultants and mailhouse. Skills required: experience in membership development and database management; self-motivated; a skilled writer; organized; detail-oriented; computer literate (FoxPro and FileMaker Pro); able to work with and assist others. Communication skills essential. Salary: to mid-$30K, commensurate with experience. To apply: Please send letter of interest and resume to Elisabeth Marx, Exec. Dir., Mothers & Others, 40 W. 20th St., New York, NY 10011-4211. Fax 212/242-0545. Mothers & Others is an equal opportunity employer. Women and people of color are encouraged to apply. Mothers & Others for a Livable Planet 40 West 20th Street New York, NY 10011 www.mothers.org/mothers Francine Stephens Program Associate Mothers & Others "Taking Our Planet Personally" To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 22:46:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10374 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA22079 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:09:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA22046 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 811159928worldnet ([12.68.13.9]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990729234715.XWLP5731@811159928worldnet> for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:47:15 +0000 Message-ID: <014201beda1c$f3330860$8a11440c@att.net> Reply-To: "Matt Kline" From: "Matt Kline" To: Subject: No Till/Cover Crops Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:47:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_013F_01BED9FB.2C0FBC40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1881 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013F_01BED9FB.2C0FBC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Edgardo Martini wrote: No till have highs demand in herbicides, but in the region where I live = is (aparentely) the most profitable practise, because in winter the wind = are relatively strong, then, if you work with conventional tillage, one day = of strong wind can destroy that nature made in 10 o 12 years. The other question is what secure for ambient is gliphosate, Monsanto = says that is the most secure, but I am not sure about this. =20 I had the opportunity to visit Cedar Meadow Farm yesterday for the Field = Day. The Groff family (Steve is a Saneter), and supporting agencies = hosted an informative display. As an organic farmer I do not agree with = the practice of herbiciding cover crops, but the soil pit profile = exposed in the no till field was far healthier than any I have seen in = conventional farming. The rolling stalk chopper and no till vegetable = transplanter (family labor intensive) had impressive improvements over = conventional equipment. This was a positive multi-cultural event, with = good discussions and exchange of information. Steve Groff, could you = please post the agenda hand out for the field day on your web site? =20 Rodale Institute also had one soybean trial field - cover crops without = herbicides. Check out the web site: =20 www.cedarmeadowfarm.com ------=_NextPart_000_013F_01BED9FB.2C0FBC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Edgardo Martini wrote:
    No till have highs demand in herbicides, but in the = region=20 where I live is
    (aparentely) the most profitable practise, because in = winter=20 the wind are
    relatively strong, then, if you work with conventional = tillage,=20 one day of
    strong wind can destroy that nature made in 10 o 12 = years.
    The=20 other question is what secure for ambient is gliphosate, Monsanto = says
    that=20 is the most secure, but I am not sure about this.
     
    I had the opportunity to visit Cedar Meadow Farm = yesterday for=20 the Field Day.  The Groff family (Steve is a Saneter), and = supporting=20 agencies hosted an informative display.  As an organic farmer I do = not=20 agree with the practice of herbiciding cover crops, but the soil = pit=20 profile exposed in the no till field was far healthier than any I have = seen in=20 conventional farming.  The rolling stalk chopper and no till = vegetable=20 transplanter (family labor intensive) had impressive improvements over=20 conventional equipment.  This was a positive multi-cultural event, = with=20 good discussions and exchange of information.  Steve Groff, could = you=20 please post the agenda hand out for the field day on your web = site?
     
     Rodale Institute also had one soybean = trial field -=20 cover crops without herbicides. Check out the web site:
     
    www.cedarmeadowfarm.com
    ------=_NextPart_000_013F_01BED9FB.2C0FBC40-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 22:46:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10378 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:46:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA21991 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:09:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA21984 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.62] (ppp-206-170-1-62.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.62]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18304 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:01:51 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Corporate pigs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1882 Howdy, all-- Thought this item might interest you watchers of MegaFarm issues: http://www.corpwatch.org/trac/gallery/ I posted some time ago on factory hog farming, including URLs for the Raleigh, NC, /The News and Observer/ series on the issue. You can find that at the Pulitzer Web site: http://www.pulitzer.org/year/1996/public-service/works/ pax mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This "telephone" has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us. --Western Union internal memo, 1876. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 22:48:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10384 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA22435 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:11:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA22395 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.251.122]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990730001831.YHZT8676@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 00:18:31 +0000 Message-ID: <37A0EF2A.BBC51386@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:17:46 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: Re: avoiding sauteed onions References: <63216E066B6@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1883 > Dale wrote (in part) > > < incidence doesn't seem to jive with this. > > I am not convinced. I am going to continue to eat roasted salmon, fried > onions, bratwurst, buttermilk pancakes etc. because they are so damn good.>> Just because something tastes good, does not mean that it is good for you. However, that is your individual choice. A choice that only hurts you. > < > We all have to make choices about what we choose to live with....I certainly am > not convinced that carmelized onions, burnt toast, etc. are enough of a threat > that I'm going to avoid them in my diet.>> Again, this is a personal choice. My objection is not with what individuals choose to eat themselves. My objection is partial truths in press releases sent to the media that lifestyle causes cancer and most people get cancer based on their own diet. When there diet may be contaminated based on what industries put into the environment. Certainly cooking meat or other food at high temperatures, which happens during grilling or charring, increases the amount of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in the food. Cancer-causing Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons are in burned toast, blackened red fish (a favorite of some in Louisiana) and other charred food. It is also in the smoke from home heating of wood. This is a known fact. And, it is confirmed by the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. Until recently, the media did not report that: PAHs are present in tobacco smoke. However, it is also in creosote-treated wood products, cereals, grains, flour, bread, vegetables, fruits, meat, processed or pickled foods, and beverages. Food grown in contaminated soil or air may also contain PAHs. PAHs are formed during the incomplete burning of coal, oil and gas, garbage, or other organic substances. PAHs can be man-made or occur naturally. There is no known use for most of these chemicals except for research purposes. A few of the PAHs are used in medicines and to make dyes, plastics, and pesticides. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/phs9020.html ''PAHs can occur in the air either attached to dust particles, or in soil or sediment as solids. They can also be found in substances such as crude oil, coal, coal tar pitch, creosote, and road and roofing tar. Most PAHs do not dissolve easily in water, but some PAHs readily evaporate into the air. PAHs generally do not burn easily and they will last in the environment for months to years,'' according to the ATSDR. In fact, PAHs are found throughout the environment in the air, water, and soil. The greatest exposure occurs in the workplace. PAHs have been found in coal-tar production plants, coking plants, bitumen and asphalt production plants, coal-gasification sites, smoke houses, aluminum production plants, coal-tarring activities, and municipal trash incinerators. PAHs have also been found in other facilities where petroleum, petroleum products, or coal are used or where wood, cellulose, corn, or oil are burned, such as hospital or biomedical waste incinerators. We are exposed to PAHs from drinking water contaminated by industries, and by consumers, based on their purchases. So, it's not that individual lifestyle causes cancer, it's corporate behavior that plays a big role in contributing to cancer. And, the reason cancer has not been controlled despite the potential billions of dollars thrown into researching it, is because ''there has not been a national coordination of cancer-fighting efforts in the public, private, and voluntary sectors,'' according to a report Cancer at a Crossroads: A Report to Congress for the Nation (1994). The National Cancer Advisory Board wrote that current (as of 1994) health care reform proposals are devastating to the War on Cancer by denying resources for research and quality cancer cares; current laws, public policy, and government regulation undermine cancer prevention, treatment, and control efforts; failure to support translational research hinders rapid development of cancer fighting advances; many people in this country, especially the poor, elderly, and uninsured, receive inadequate cancer care. However, while some people have tried to enlighten the public, vested industry front groups seem hell bent to keep the public confused, ignorant, and continually purchasing their backers products. This is why the war on cancer will not be won. Not at least until each of us moves forward to reduce, rather than increase pollution. Sustaining the organic method is one way that this can be accomplished. ~Bunny Snow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Jul 29 22:49:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA10388 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:49:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA24654 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:15:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA24638 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.62] (ppp-206-170-1-62.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.62]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23846; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <62EB6D86B45@agecon.uga.edu> References: <62EB6D86B45@agecon.uga.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:26:26 -0700 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" From: Misha Subject: Re: What's your problem? Cc: SANET-mg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1884 Howdy, Anita-- With cc: to SANET. You wrote in reply to Lon's request for information from SANETters on disease problems and methods for dealing with them: >Lon -- are you aware of the giant survey that the Organic Farming >Research Foundation (OFRF) in Santa Cruz, CA has conducted every two >years since 1993? So far, there are three survey results available >(from '93, '95 and '97) and although the survey has changed in format >(getting better and more complete each time) and scope (the first >one is regional, the last two are national), much of what you are >looking for has been surveyed there already. Depending on what >you're doing with the information, you may want to look into this. It's worth noting that the respondents are certified organic farmers only. Depending on what Lon is interested in learning, this could be an asset...or could skew his findings. FYI. peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 03:36:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA14926 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 03:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA17264 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:52:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wstcm1.westco.net (wstcm1.westco.net [205.245.79.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA17235 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.westco.net [205.245.78.170] by wstcm1.westco.net (SMTPD32-4.06) id AB05364015C; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:49:41 EDT Message-id: Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:26:06 -0400 Subject: Family Farmers--Will There Be a Next Generation? To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org (Marian Buckner) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1885 I hope that a least a few of you can help me with my request. It will be very useful in my work with agriculture. (1) Can you email me comments on your opinion as to whether adequate numbers of young people can be interested in becoming farmers--will there be a next generation of family farmers (sustainable or traditional), or (2) can you mail me xeroxes of newspaper or magazine articles on young people who either are already beginning farmers, or who are committed to farming in the future? (Email me what the cost would be for your doing this, and I will email you my regular mailing address.) In my work regarding agriculture, people often say, "What's the point of saving farmland for family farmers--members of the younger generation do not want to be farmers. The big corporate factory farms will take over." In fact, some seem so convinced of this that they have pretty much given up on the family farm--whether sustainable or traditional. I am not ready to concede defeat and am cheered on by stories of young people who do intend to farm. Our local paper carried a heart-warming story about a 17-year-old who raises pigs and chickens. He says, "Everybody else wants to be a professional baseball player. I want to be a farmer." Another interesting thing that tells me this interest is considered unusual is that it was the featured front-page article. I hope that some of you can provide me with information about the next generation of family farmers (sustainable or traditional). I will do my best to put it to good use. Marian Buckner To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 04:27:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA15239 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA26198 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 03:48:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA26186 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 03:48:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id DAA23901 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 03:48:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [139.142.112.140] [139.142.112.140] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m11A7Ar-0006dXC for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 00:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 00:16:37 -0700 Subject: jojoba From: "Beth Lischeron" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1886 Hello and thanks to those who responded to my post about jojoba & patchouli oil - I did check out Frontier Herbs and they don't have what am looking for which is this, specifically: Does anyone know of a producer of jojoba oil? It is my understanding that the plant from which this is produced is native to desert regions of North America - so I am assuming traditional Hopi/Navajo/Pueblo territory. Does anyone know of Indigenous producers of this product? Many thanks for your thoughts/advice/connections! Beth Lischeron To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 07:48:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA16571 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA08565 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:10:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA08483 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA07455; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:08:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-167.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.167) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007443; Fri Jul 30 06:08:55 1999 Message-ID: <00b401beda7b$606336e0$f9ff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lester Loam" , Cc: Subject: Re: obstacles to sustainable ag Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:05:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1887 Lester, Great post. I might add that farmers need some good PR. I have been thinking about this while reading these posts. Farmers need to be presented to the general public as the important and intelligent members of society they are. Not just people covered in dirt, sitting in a John Deere tractor with a piece of hay between the teeth. The knowledge and dedication it takes to bring seed to table is I can't even think of an appropriate word, lets say hugely important. I read somewhere that all the bad press about pesticides (rightly so) has shifted the "image" of farmer , across the board, from wise caretaker, to a greedy stupid person spraying everything. Yikes low pay and low opinion. We market direct (CSA) so I can get a feel of some of my members (some talk more than others). One woman told me her son (4 ish) said he loved our farm because the people are so nice. Thanks. He "builds" farms at home and has included two plastic horses Dan and Magnum (our team). Thats were to get 'em before they get to adults and are wooed by the status quo. Massachusetts has a program Ag in the Classroom. Farmers volunteer to speak in schools. I have spent two afternoons fo far in school. Honestly I think its easier to farm :). But I must say the kids where enthusiastic (loudly enthusiastic), but it will take more than one visit and a talk about the way seeds work (and slides of the farm animals their favorite). Well good luck to us, Beth -> >The ultimate partnership that must be forged is between farmers and >consumers. If you survey sustainable farmers, you'll find one of the big >needs that they express is to educate more consumers to value what they >produce and be willing to pay what it's worth. (I don't have a citation for >this. But I think if you check out the surveys done by the Organic Farming >Research Foundation, you'll find something like this.) > >I don't want to speak for Greg Gunthorp (a frequent sanet contributor), but >I think that's what he's trying to do. He's got hogs raised in a way that >is kind to the environment (as well as low cost). Now he's trying to find a >way to get them to consumers who think what he's doing is a good idea. > >Sustainable farmers need a bigger pool of consumers willing to go out of >their way to do this, and they need help with the logistics of getting these >products to those consumers. In this age of fast food, mega-supermarkets >with slotting fees, and consumers who are too busy to cook very much, this >is no small task. > >Lester > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 08:29:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16906 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA07789 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:53:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA07778 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca [131.104.232.2]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA08858 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CSNET/MAILQ by csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.44); 30 Jul 99 07:53:17 GMT-5 Received: from MAILQ by CSNET (Mercury 1.44); 30 Jul 99 07:52:56 GMT-5 From: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" Organization: Plant Agriculture, Univ. of Guelph To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:52:55 EST Subject: Re: Family Farmers--Will There Be a Next Generation? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-ID: <76E33B7D39@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1888 Marian: Let me give you an alternative vision on the future. 1. The current generation of farmers has been trained in, and rewarded by, a linear approach to farming. The courses we teach, the extension information they receive, the research on which it is based, is virtually entirely linear in scope (e.g. one cause, one effect, no side-effects, no interactions). I acknowledge that I am stating this in an extreme position, but it is not far from true even so. 2. The only way that these kind of skills will be useful in future farming is as employees on factory farms, in an industrial model for farming. This is the future that awaits many of the next generation. 3. A separate wave of farmers is evolving however, from people who may be from a non-farm background or are perhaps 1-2 generations off of the farm. These people are entering farming not as a full-time job but as a complement to other types of employment among family members. They are also older, more mature, and more experienced in the ways of the world, than those traditionally entering farming. 4. The new wave is bringing not just years and experiences, but skills and money. Proceeds from other careers are now entering the farming community, both as a startup to buy or rent a place, and as ongoing income. This infusion of new money may come from teaching or stock investments or other businesses. This new money has no ties to industrial agriculture and is a net gain to the farming community. 5. The newcomers are not necessarily welcome - often aren't. They think differently. Values are different. Often are insensitive to the "rules" and traditions that govern farm life. And, they are not as vulnerable to manipulation. 6. The newcomers are in farming because they want to be - not because they were born to it. They are also not committed to living and dying on the same piece of land, and if something better comes down the road in 10 years time, they'll take it and be gone. This generates a whole suite of potentials and problems. 7. New ways of farming bring novel thoughts and practices into the rural landscape, many of which involve holism. Instead of sticking with ways that are tried and true (but may now be wholly unprofitable and environmentally unsound often for reasons beyond the control of the farmers), newcomers will grow red deer, or designer pumpkins, or direct market fresh veggies, or any one of countless new enterprises. They don't care what the neighbors think. In sum, the next generation of free (e.g. not indentured) farmers will be composed - quantitatively and qualitatively - of an entirely different breed of human. Different strengths and weaknesses, but they are coming. Replacement by progeny of current farmers is only part of the story. Ann ACLARK@plant.uoguelph.ca Dr. E. Ann Clark Associate Professor Crop Science University of Guelph Guelph, ON N1G 2W1 Phone: 519-824-4120 Ext. 2508 FAX: 519 763-8933 http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 10:51:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19261 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:51:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA27901 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:08:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web607.mail.yahoo.com (web607.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.171]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA27829 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990730140703.1691.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web607.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:07:03 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:07:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Spirituality--that other dimension To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1889 Good Morning SANETeers, I've been working so hard that I have gotten into trouble on a list serve in weeks. So here it is Friday and even though there are many things to do, my mind turns to stirring things up a bit. I probably should hesitate since the flaming is rather hot these days. Hopefully Dale is on vacation or has a real thick skin. I've visited Dale at his office and in fact he works with my brother. He is a real nice guy so don't be so hard on him. But what I want to stir up, is a discussion about the spirituality part of sustainable agriculture. My guess is that most of feel a connection to this paradigm that is of a spiritual nature. We feel like it is somehow linked with what many would call God. I do not chose that word. I chose the word Creation. But you may name this knowing that we are all connected to a great whole what ever you like. So in my paradigm or construct of the ultimately unknowable, we are all material beings (have a body) but each of us has a soul or spirit that is part of Creation. Thus we are all connected. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 10:51:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19278 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA01779 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:13:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web602.mail.yahoo.com (web602.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA01673 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990730141201.403.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web602.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:12:01 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Spirituality--that other dimension To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1890 Good Morning SANETeers, I've been working so hard that I have gotten into trouble on a list serve in weeks. So now it is Friday and even though there are many things to do, my mind turns to stirring things up a bit. I probably should hesitate since the flaming is rather hot these days. Hopefully Dale is on vacation or has a real thick skin. I've visited Dale at his office and in fact he works with my brother. He is a real nice guy so don't be so hard on him. But what I want to stir up, is a discussion about the spirituality part of sustainable agriculture. My guess is that most of us have "leanings" that are of a spiritual nature. We feel like our connection to sustainable agriculture is somehow linked with what many would call God. I do not chose that word. I chose the word Creation. But you may name this knowing that we are all connected to a great whole what ever you like. So in my paradigm or construct of the ultimately unknowable, we are all material beings (have a body) but each of us has a soul or spirit that is part of Creation. Thus we are all connected. Connected to one another, connected to those who have lived before and will live after us. And most importantly to this group, connected to the earth, which I believe has a consciousness that is the gestalt of all the souls that have or will live on her. Well that is no doubt too much said already. Is there anyone else out there with a comment? Peace, kate _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 10:57:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19364 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02245 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:14:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chet.brysonweb.com (IDENT:root@chet.brysonweb.com [209.67.195.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02117 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:14:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (PPPa29-WashingtonB1-1R588.saturn.bbn.com [4.9.7.211]) by chet.brysonweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21813; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:17:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199907301417.KAA21813@chet.brysonweb.com> X-Sender: twilliams@progressivepubs.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:12:01 -0400 To: MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org (Marian Buckner) From: Tad Williams Subject: Re: Family Farmers--Will There Be a Next Generation? Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA02134 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1891 At 11:26 AM 7/29/99 -0400, you wrote: > (1) Can you email me comments on your opinion as to whether adequate >numbers of young people can be interested in becoming farmers--will there >be a next generation of family farmers (sustainable or traditional), or >(2) can you mail me xeroxes of newspaper or magazine articles on young >people who either are already beginning farmers, or who are committed to >farming in the future? (Email me what the cost would be for your doing >this, and I will email you my regular mailing address.) Marian, I do not know if this helps or not, but I am a young person who is interested in farming not so much as a career, but as a part of my life that I hope to hold on to until I die. I am 23 yars old and grew up on a small dairy farm in the Shenandoah Valley of western Virginia. I live in Arlington, VA near DC and work there, but still work some on the farm on weekends and during vacation. We had a small herd of dairy cows (about 20 at peak) and also raised sheep along the way and some pigs as well. I remember as a youth despising farm work. I had to walk to bring the cows to barn especially the one stubborn cow we had that refused to join the others at the barn for her daily milk. We ended up selling the dairy cows because we could not afford to keep them any longer. That was such a sad day that I will never forget it. Also, we raised sheep for a few years. They were more headaches than anything else. Now we raise a few pigs each year and we have about 20 head of stock cattle that we raise strickly on grass and hay. Its a struggle sometimes to live on a farm especially this year we are in the middle of a bad drought here and there seems to be no end in site. But we will continue to persist and have a farm not to become economically secure. If someone asked me why I enjoy farming I could never answer them, but if you would spend time with me bailing hay or sloping pigs than that would answer the question. I think the reason our family does it is because it is something that makes us who we are. I know that I learned lessons of hard work and determination not from an olympic athlete, but from my grandfather and father. As long is there is a breath in my body I will keep that farm and make it a part of me until. Hope this helps. Tad Williams @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tad Williams Marketing Director Progressive Publications Ph: (202)238-0010 Fax: (202)238-0011 http://www.progressivepubs.com P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 11:13:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19604 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08324 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:26:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08246 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:26:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FB59A8@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:23:36 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 30 Jul 99 10:26:10 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 30 Jul 99 10:25:45 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:25:38 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: what sustainable ag farmers need In-reply-to: <199907292210.SAA05337@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <64377DF014B@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1892 Greg wrote in response to Lester: > P.S. Me and another farmer have been making a weekly trip to Chicago to > sell pork and eggs. Its been going pretty well. We are still working out > the logistics of selling chickens. (Processing and distribution is a > serious problem of farmer direct marketing.) I've been roasting at least > one pig each weekend. It has not been an easy task but we are very near > not needing a commodity hog market. Next weekend will be our first two > events to go and sell pork sandwiches and kielbasa. We just picked up our > new concession trailer (and Licensed kitchen) this Monday. It has been fun > working with various health departments to get permits to cook and process > our pork. (Regulations and even knowledge of the rules by various health > departments and FSIS are also a serious obstacle for small farmers.) I > think Joel Salitin is right that in the end it is the persistent that > succeed. I just wanted to make explicit something that Greg has mentioned implicitly. That is, for farms to sustainably and successfully market directly (or more so anyway), they probably need to put more effort into supplying value-added products. It is my opinion, Lester, that if you wanted to help out these farmers, this would be a good issue to address. Next might be marketing strategies and channels. Greg seems to have natural talent for all of these including talent as a good farmer. Increasingly, farmers all over the world need to be such Renaissance men and women if they are to survive. It isn't enough anymore "just" to be able to produce. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 11:27:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19912 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:36:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15689 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FB5C74@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:33:03 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 30 Jul 99 10:35:37 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 30 Jul 99 10:35:23 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:35:19 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: killer jokes In-reply-to: <199907292210.SAA05337@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <643A0FA6A12@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1893 Someone wrote: > > Does anyone have information about what [African] killer weeds he's talking about? And I answered: > Personally I think he must be talking about ones like the species > Politicious corruptous. :-) But for some reason I got some personal responses to this giving me actual weed spp. names as if my answer had been serious. Just to let you know, this was a joke! (If you don't get it, read it again.) Ha ha! Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 11:36:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20114 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA18849 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:44:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18700 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.213] (br-ppp07.hevanet.com [198.5.254.213]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA27612; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907301443.HAA27612@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:46:06 -0700 Subject: FW: Seed Catalogs Offer Glimpse of Yesterday From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List , NAFEX List , Maritime Pacific Northwest Gardens Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1894 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Seed Catalogs Offer Glimpse of Yesterday Date: Fri, Jul 30, 1999, 6:51 AM STORY LEAD: Seed Catalogs Offer Glimpse of Yesterday ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov July 30, 1999 ----------- Looking for that special horse-drawn lawnmower? You may not find one for sale, but an old seed catalog has an ad for an "improved" model. That catalog and more than 170,000 others in a special library collection offer a nostalgic glimpse of old-time American farming and gardening. The seed catalogs--dating as far back as the late 1700's--also serve as a scholarly resource for botanists, historians, statisticians, landscape architects and others, according to Susan H. Fugate. She oversees the catalogs and other special collections at the National Agricultural Library in Beltsville, Md. NAL, the world's largest agricultural research library, is part of the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency. The catalogs describe thousands of trees, shrubs, bulbs and other plants that farmers and gardeners of yesteryear bought from seed companies, nurseries and growers. Ads in some catalogs display farm and garden implements such as an "improved" horse-drawn lawnmower and special "horse boots" to keep the animal from "sinking in damp or soft ground." Library users have combed the catalogs to find out more about the history of a nursery implement or gardening tool, or to trace the inadvertent sale--and resulting spread--of plants today regarded as weeds. Begun in 1904, the collection has been enhanced by donations from attics and files of nursery companies and institutions such as the Massachusetts Horticultural Society, University of California at Berkeley, and the Brooklyn Botanical Garden in New York City. The seed catalog collection is featured in an article in the July 1999 issue of Agricultural Research magazine, available on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jul99/folks0799.htm ---------- Contact: Susan H. Fugate, Special Collections Section, ARS National Agricultural Library, 10301 Baltimore Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705, phone (301) 504-5876, fax (301) 504-7593, sfugate@nal.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 11:39:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20189 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:39:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA26713 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:54:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26581 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FB6083@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:50:54 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 30 Jul 99 10:53:28 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 30 Jul 99 10:53:19 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:53:11 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Edgardo's questions In-reply-to: <199907281533.LAA17203@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <643ED710327@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1895 > > Hi > I am a new user in this mail list. I am a farmer and live in Argentina, in a > semiarid region and I would like your opinion about no till practises. > No till have highs demand in herbicides, but in the region where I live is > (aparentely) the most profitable practise, because in winter the wind are > relatively strong, then, if you work with conventional tillage, one day of > strong wind can destroy that nature made in 10 o 12 years. > The other question is what secure for ambient is gliphosate, Monsanto says > that is the most secure, but I am not sure about this. > I sorry by mi english is not good, but I hope that you understand. > I will apreciate your answers > > Edgardo Martini > Jovita - Cordoba > Argentina Well, since nobody appears to have responded to you yet, I'll just let you know that Steve Groff seems to be the resident (in Sanet world) expert on no-till, and he has a lovely web page you can look at www.cedarmeadowfarm.com He's not in a semi-arid region, but it might be a good place to start anyway, or maybe he can recommend other sources of information for you. As for your other question, please permit me to restate what I think you are saying, "what are the environmental safety issues related to glyphosate?" (seguro = safe, ambiente = environment). I think you are referring to RoundUp, and there has been a lot of discussion lately on this list regarding that. If you go to http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail you can click on the list of recent Sanet letters and review what has been said. Buena suerte! Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 11:40:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20196 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA28121 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:57:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web808.mail.yahoo.com (web808.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28117 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990730150109.26263.rocketmail@web808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.221] by web808.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:01:09 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:01:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: RE: Cancer and free PR To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1896 Ask a geologist/hydrologist...Chemicals in water is awfully complicated. To determine "harm", there is the biological processes, and the human processes -- Mr. Cowdery explains it better than I do. --- Timothy Cowdery wrote: > Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:34:39 -0500 > From: Timothy Cowdery > Organization: U.S. Geological Survey > To: Kirsten Saylor > Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Cancer and free PR > > Kirsten, > > From what I could find in some references (available > by request, 1983, > 1993), 2,4-dinitrophenol is an organic molocule of > no cited use, but a > chemical closely related (structurally, but not > necessarily > degradationally) to both dinoseb > (2,4-dinitro-6-sec-butylphenol) and > 4,6-dinitro-o-cresol (which are not the same thing). > All 3 are phenols > with 2 nitro groups attached. Dinoseb and > 4,6-dinitro-o-cresol are > pesticides (The former used as an herbicide, > especially on corn and the > latter and ovicide on fruit trees) and have carbon > groups attached to the > phenol. Dinoseb degrades to "persistant polar > compounds" that could not > be identified. > > I'm not sure what the arguement is here. > 2,4-dinitrophenol does not > appear to be a pesticide, it may be a pesticide > metabolite, and is a > chemical found in both chemical synthesis and in the > environment. It is > toxic to many forms of life including bacteria, > algae, protozoa, > arthropods, and fish. It is unclear how toxic it is > to humans but must be > at some concentration. > > I did read Dale Wilson's message and I think he > makes many good points. > > 1) One must take concentration into account. > Toxicity has everything to > do with concentration, not detection. As our > detection limits continue to > decline, detection rates will increase, even if > there is no increase in > environmental concentration. > > 2) One must make the methods and purposes for which > data is collected > clear. His point on the European rain data is a > very good one. > > 3) There is a very big difference between suspicion > of a toxic effect and > proof of a toxic effect. When dealing with the > suspicion of a toxic > effect, risk analysis (cost-benefit) must be > employed and risk analysis is > notoriously full of assumptions and values not > everyone shares. Most > people really don't understand risk. > > 4) Get your information from both sides of an issue. > > Initial rain concentrations of 4,000 nanograms per > liter is 4 micrograms > per liter (the units we measured groundwater at). > This is high for a > pesticide in ground water. However, rain is not > ground water and the > average concentration in all rainwater is probably > 3-4 orders of magnitude > lower. Do I want this stuff in my rain? No. Do I > want my food grown from > pesticides that probably degrade into this stuff? > No. Am I willing to pay > much more for food grown without pesticides? Yes. > Do I even care if this > stuff is basically harmless to life? No. But these > are my answers based > on my values (my risk assessment). I think I am in > the minority. > > Also, when evaluating risk, one really has to > prioritize. The automobile > has done more damage to the physical, spiritual, and > mental health of our > civilization than the entire pesticide industry. Of > course I realize that > the automobile and pesticide industries leap from > the same mind set. > > Sorry for going bla bla bla... > > > Tim > ----------------------- Dear Tim, > > > Here's an argument -- that I > > thought your water-pesticide expertise could help > > solve. Is the 2,4 - dinitrophenol a derivative of > a pesticide? Degraded from something else? Is > there a right, wrong or just poorly misunderstood? > > Anyway, your help is much appreciated. > > > > Kirsten > >----------------------------------- > > --- Bunny Snow wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:00:16 -0500 > > > From: Bunny Snow > > > Reply-to: sksnow@worldnet.att.net > > > Organization: Pollution Solution > > > To: SANET-mg > > > Subject: RE: Cancer and free PR > > > > > > < > > "Stephan Muller at the Swiss federal Institute > for > > > Environmental Science > > > and Technology in Dubendorf reported finding one > > > sample of rain > > > containing 4000 nanograms per liter of > > > 2,4-dinitrophenol, a common > > > pesticide (not to be confused with the weed > killer > > > 2,4-D).>> > > > > > > Cited by Dale Wilson at: > > > > > > > > > <2,4 DNP is not a pesticide. The most closely > > > related pesticide was > > > dinoseb, I think it was 2,4-dinitrocresol, a > > > herbicide. This was taken > > > off the market a decade ago. Who the hell knows > why > > > Muller found "one > > > sample" contaminated with DNP, or where it came > > > from.> > > > > > > According to Marion Moses, M.D., M.P.H.: > > > ''Pesticides are toxic > > > substances deliberately added to our environment > to > > > kill or harm living > > > things. They can also kill or harm human beings. > The > > > 1947 federal > > > pesticide law defined pesticides as 'economic > > > poisons.' Pesticides are > > > named according to the kind of pest they are > used > > > against'' --herbicides > > > for weeds, insecticides for insects; fungicides, > > > bactericides, and so > > > forth. Hence, contrary to what Dale Wilson > claims, > > > 2,4 DNP is a > > > pesticide, just like Roundup is a pesticide! > > > > > > Bunny Snow > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > with > > > the command > > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the > digest > > > format, use the command > > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email > majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu > > > with the command > > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Free instant messaging and more at > http://messenger.yahoo.com > > -- > Tim Cowdery, hydrogeologist > U.S. Geological Survey > Water-Resources Division > Minnesota District > Minneapolis, Minnesota > (612) 783-3273 cowdery@usgs.gov > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 11:56:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20549 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09376 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:17:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09353 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26883>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:24:17 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Kate Smith cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Jul30.102417cdt.26883@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:14:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Spirituality--that other dimension Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1897 I think you said it all Kate! Amen. [large snip] ...So in my paradigm or construct of the ultimately unknowable, we are all material beings (have a body) but each of us has a soul or spirit that is part of Creation. Thus we are all connected. Connected to one another, connected to those who have lived before and will live after us. And most importantly to this group, connected to the earth, which I believe has a consciousness that is the gestalt of all the souls that have or will live on her. Well that is no doubt too much said already. Is there anyone else out there with a comment? Peace, kate _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 14:53:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24135 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA29641 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:32:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29617 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.237]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990730173113.RAGY10212@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:31:13 +0000 Message-ID: <37A1E132.E26CF67A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:30:26 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ",SANET-mg" Subject: Re: Cancer & Pesticides References: <379F5AE3.19A7C07F@sprintmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1898 Don't forget, dioxin has been identified as a contaminant in some pesticides, including 2,4-D. Recall, Dale, herbicides are also pesticides! According to the herbicide fact sheet entitled 2,4-D: Toxicology in the Journal of Pesticide Reform/Summer 1999, Vol. 19. No. 2: ''The U.S Environmental Protection Agency has reported that 2,4-D is contaminated with dioxins, including the notorious 2,3,7,8-TCDD. TCDD causes a variety of reproductive problems, cancer, and damage to the immune system....2,4-D exposure has been linked with increased risk of cancer, non-Hodgkins lymphoma in a series of studies. These include studies of farmers in the U.S. and Canada; workers in 2,4-D manufacturing plants; professional lawn care applicators; and gardeners. In addition, exposure to 2,4-D treated lawns has been associations with an increased risk of lymphoma in dogs. 2,4-D's ability to cause cancer has been controversial since the first of these studies was published.'' References: Hardell, L. 1979, Malignant lymphoma of histiocytic type and exposure to phenoxyacetic acids or chlorophenols. Lancct 1(8106):55-56. Ballester, O.F. et al. 1003. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in the older person: A review JAGS 41:1245-1254. Hoar, S.K. et al. 1986. Agricultural herbicide use and risk of lymphoma and soft-tissue sarcoma, JAMA 256:1141-1147. Zahm, S.H. et al. 1990. A case-control study of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and the herbicide 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) in eastern Nebraska, Epidemiol. 1: 349-356 Wigle, D.T. 1990. Mortality study of Canadian male farm operators; Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma mortality and agricultural practices in Saskatchewan. J. National Cancer Institute. 82:575-582. Hayes, H.M. et al. 1991. Case-control study of canine malignant lymphoma: positive association with dog owner's use of 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid herbicides. J. Nat. Cancer Inst. 83:1226-1231. Under Contaminants, Caroline Cox, editor of the National Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides, Journal of Pesticide Reform writes: ''...Dioxins gained notoriety as contaminants of the 2,4-D-containing herbicide Agent Orange used during the Vietnam War. The little testing that has been done shows the current 2,4-D products are contaminated with dioxins, including 2,3,7,8-TCDD...2,4,7,8-TCDD was found in 2 of the 8 samples analyzed for EPA by 2,4-D manufacturers. A closely related dioxin (1,2,3,7,8-pentachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin) was found in 3 of the 8 samples tested. The Washington Department of Agriculture recently surveyed fertilizer products, including one 2,4-D-containing product. Their analysis showed that it was contaminated with 2,3,7,8-TCDD and the same pentadioxin found by EPA as well as three related dioxins.'' Her reference is, U.S. EPA. Office of Research and Development, 1994. Estimating exposure to dioxin-like compounds. Vol. II: Properties, sources, occurrence and background exposures. Review draft. Washington, D.C., June. and Washington Depts. of Ecology, Agriculture, and Health. 1998. Screening survey for metals and dioxins in fertilizers, soil amendments, and soils in Washing State. Olympia, WA, Nov. U.S. EPA. Office of Prevention, Pesticides, and Toxic Substances. 1996. 2.4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid: Review of a chronic toxicity/carcinogenicity study in rats, a carcinogenicity study in mice, and a developmental toxicity study in rats. Memo from J. Rowland, Health Effects Division, to R. Dumas and J. Bloom, Special Review and Reregistration Division, Washington, D.C. May 23. Numerous of the misnamed ''inert'' ingredients in pesticides, also cause cancer, but either due to the way the laws are written or the way the laws are enforced protecting manufactures of pesticides from public and governmental scrutiny, true and factual information is not widely available to the public. However, under the Freedom of Information Act, the NCAP uncovered some enlightening information about secret ingredients in pesticides. And, many of these misnamed inerts are carcinogenic in people, as well as other animals. See: TOXIC SECRETS: ''INERT'' INGREDIENTS IN PESTICIDES at: http://www.efn.org/~ncap/toxicsecrets.html. This document is available in PDF at: http://www.efn.org/~ncap/inertsreport.pdf In its Executive Summary for ''Cancer at a Crossroads: A Report to Congress for the Nation,'' the National Cancer Advisory Board wrote: ''Current laws, public policy, and government regulation undermine cancer prevention, treatment, and control efforts.'' In other words, most cancers can be prevented, but it takes the will of governments, industry, and an informed --not misinformed -- citizenry to make this happen. Bunny Snow --------------------------------- Dale wrote: > < probably dioxin.>> Alex McGregor wrote: > So, it looks like Dale failed to read the included article which read: > Last March, well-known Swedish scientists Lennart Hardell and Mikael > Eriksson published a case-control study (404 cases and 741 controls) > showing once again that non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) is linked to pesticide > exposures. Hardell and Eriksson published their first study linking phenoxy > herbicides to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) in 1981. The studies did not link > NHL to "probably dioxin," they linked it to a pesticide exposure. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 14:53:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24145 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA28676 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:29:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28664 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.237]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990730172832.QZFB10212@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:28:32 +0000 Message-ID: <37A1E091.62D2CF8F@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:27:45 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ",SANET-mg" Subject: Re: Cancer & Pesticides References: <379F5AE3.19A7C07F@sprintmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1899 Don't forget, dioxin has been identified as a contaminant in some pesticides, including 2,4-D. Recall, Dale, herbicides are also pesticides! According to the herbicide fact sheet entitled 2,4-D: Toxicology in the Journal of Pesticide Reform/Summer 1999, Vol. 19. No. 2: ''The U.S Environmental Protection Agency has reported that 2,4-D is contaminated with dioxins, including the notorious 2,3,7,8-TCDD. TCDD causes a variety of reproductive problems, cancer, and damage to the immune system....2,4-D exposure has been linked with increased risk of cancer, non-Hodgkins lymphoma in a series of studies. These include studies of farmers in the U.S. and Canada; workers in 2,4-D manufacturing plants; professional lawn care applicators; and gardeners. In addition, exposure to 2,4-D treated lawns has been associations with an increased risk of lymphoma in dogs. 2,4-D's ability to cause cancer has been controversial since the first of these studies was published.'' References: Hardell, L. 1979, Malignant lymphoma of histiocytic type and exposure to phenoxyacetic acids or chlorophenols. Lancct 1(8106):55-56. Ballester, O.F. et al. 1003. Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in the older person: A review JAGS 41:1245-1254. Hoar, S.K. et al. 1986. Agricultural herbicide use and risk of lymphoma and soft-tissue sarcoma, JAMA 256:1141-1147. Zahm, S.H. et al. 1990. A case-control study of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and the herbicide 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) in eastern Nebraska, Epidemiol. 1: 349-356 Wigle, D.T. 1990. Mortality study of Canadian male farm operators; Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma mortality and agricultural practices in Saskatchewan. J. National Cancer Institute. 82:575-582. Hayes, H.M. et al. 1991. Case-control study of canine malignant lymphoma: positive association with dog owner's use of 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid herbicides. J. Nat. Cancer Inst. 83:1226-1231. Under Contaminants, Caroline Cox, editor of the National Coalitioon for Alternatives to Pesticides, Journal of Pesticide Reform writes: ''...Dioxins gained notoriety as contaminants of the 2,4-D-containing herbicide Agent Orange used during the Vietnam War. The little testing that has been done shows the current 2,4-D products are contaminated with dioxins, including 2,3,7,8-TCDD...2,4,7,8-TCDD was found in 2 of the 8 samples analyzed for EPA by 2,4-D manufacturers. A closely related dioxin (1,2,3,7,8-pentachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin) was found in 3 of the 8 samples tested. The Washington Department of Agriculture recently surveyed fertilizer products, including one 2,4-D-containing product. Their analysis showed that it was contaminated with 2,3,7,8-TCDD and the same pentadioxin found by EPA as well as three related dioxins.'' Her reference is, U.S. EPA. Office of Research and Development, 1994. Estimating exposure to dioxin-like compounds. Vol. II: Properties, sources, occurrence and background exposures. Review draft. Washington, D.C., June. and Washington Depts. of Ecology, Agriculture, and Health. 1998. Screening survey for metals and dioxins in fertilizers, soil amendments, and soils in Washing State. Olympia, WA, Nov. U.S. EPA. Office of Prevention, Pesticides, and Toxic Substances. 1996. 2.4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid: Review of a chronic toxicity/carcinogenicity study in rats, a carcinogenicity study in mice, and a developmental toxicity study in rats. Memo from J. Rowland, Health Effects Division, to R. Dumas and J. Bloom, Special Review and Reregistration Division, Washington, D.C. May 23. Numerous of the misnamed ''inert'' ingredients in pesticides, also cause cancer, but either due to the way the laws are written or the way the laws are enforced protecting manufactures of pesticides from public and governmental scrutiny, true and factual information is not widely available to the public. However, under the Freedom of Information Act, the NCAP uncovered some enlighting information about secret ingredients in pesticides. See: TOXIC SECRETS: ''INERT'' INGREDIENTS IN PESTICIDES at: http://www.efn.org/~ncap/toxicsecrets.html. This document is available in PDF at: http://www.efn.org/~ncap/inertsreport.pdf In its Executive Summary for ''Cancer at a Crossroads: A Report to Congress for the Nation,'' the National Cancer Advisory Board wrote: ''Current laws, public policy, and government regulation undermine cancer prevention, tratment, and control efforts.'' In other words, most cancers can be prevented, but it takes the will of governments, industry, and an informed --not misinformed -- citizenry to make this happen. Bunny Snow --------------------------------- Dale wrote: > < probably dioxin.>> Alex McGregor wrote: > So, it looks like Dale failed to read the included article which read: > Last March, well-known Swedish scientists Lennart Hardell and Mikael > Eriksson published a case-control study (404 cases and 741 controls) > showing once again that non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) is linked to pesticide > exposures. Hardell and Eriksson published their first study linking phenoxy > herbicides to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (NHL) in 1981. The studies did not link > NHL to "probably dioxin," they linked it to a pesticide exposure. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 15:37:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25419 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA22156 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:00:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA22063 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:59:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id NAA09006 (8.9.1/50); Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:59:35 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990730140240.00700c88@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:02:40 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Fwd:FQPA Pesticide legislative threat grows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1900 >Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:18:37 -0400 >From: DWallinga@nrdc.org (David Wallinga) >Subject: Fwd:FQPA Pesticide legislative threat grows > >Dear Colleagues: > For those of you interested in pesticides and implementation of the Food >Quality Protection Act, I'm forwarding a timely e-mail from Jacqueline Hamilton, >a co-worker in NRDC's public health program, about bills just introduced in >Congress that we believe would essentially put implementation of the FQPA in the >deep freeze. Please forward to MSAWG members and others interested in >sustainable agriculture. This is a critical point. > >David Wallinga, M.D. >Public Health Program, Natural Resources Defense Council >Suite 400, 1200 New York Ave., NW >Washington, D.C. 20005 >Ph. 202-289-6868; fax 202-289-1060 >dwallinga@nrdc.org >____________________Forward Header_____________________ >Subject: FQPA Pesticide legislative threat grows >Author: Jacqueline Hamilton >Date: 7/29/1999 7:58 PM > >Dear Colleagues, >Late-breaking news on the legislative front: industry efforts to grind FQPA >implementation to a halt got a boost today when Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE) >introduced in the Senate a mirror version of the industry bill circulating in >the House, HR 1592, sponsored by Rep. Richard Pombo (R-CA). The Pombo bill has >now garnered over 145 co-sponsors and appears to be gaining concerning momentum. > The Hagel bill, S__ (no number yet assigned), was introduced this afternoon >(7/29/99) with 17 original co-sponsors. The full list of Senate co-sponsors >follows at the end of this message. > >Though we have not seen the text of the Senate bill, we have reason to believe >that it is nearly identical to the House Pombo bill. Industry has tried to sell >this bill as 'merely improving the openness of EPA's decisionmaking,' and >'assuring that the Agency uses sound science in its decisions.' Its sponsors >say pointedly that it does not amend FQPA. NRDC's analysis of the Pombo bill, >however, has found that it would throw a roadblock in front of EPA's already >halting efforts to take action against highly toxic pesticides. The bill would >gut the FQPA safety factor provision. Further, it saddles EPA with complex and >burdensome regulations that would: freeze the state of EPA pesticide science; >greatly increase the opportunities for pesticide lawyers to sue and further hold >up EPA action; and delay any real protection for children, even for known >excessive risks, for another 5-10 years. For a longer analysis of the Pombo >bill, contact Jacqueline Hamilton at jhamilton@nrdc.org. > >Please contact your Congressional representatives in both houses and tell them >that you want pesticides out of kids' foods. Tell them that you don't want them >to meddle with FQPA. Despite industry's hysterical propaganda claiming that EPA >is acting wildly and irrationally, EPA has yet to take ANY concrete action >against a single chemical for failure to meet the FQPA safety standard for kids. > These bills, which closely track the chemical industry "Road Map" for how they >would like to see EPA act (or fail to act) under FQPA, have gained increasing >support. Congress needs to hear from the other side--consumers who want >dangerous pesticides out of their food. These bills would have the effect of >gutting the landmark protections for children in the FQPA, passed unanimously by >Congress just three years ago. Please let Congress hear from you today. > >NRDC's web site will post an action alert next Wednesday. In the mean time, you >can seek more information at www.ecologic-ipm.com and >www.cehn.org/cehn/fqpa.html > >Senate Industry FQPA bill co-sponsors: >Chuck Hagel (R-NE) Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) >Pat Roberts (R-KS) Mary Landrieu (D-LA) >Tim Hutchinson (R-AR) Thad Cochran (R-MS) >Rod Grams (R-MN) Spencer Abraham (R-MI) >Gordon Smith (R-OR) Ernest Hollings (D-SC) >Larry Craig (R-ID) Slade Gorton (R-WA) >Charles Grassely (R-IA) Michael Crapo (R-ID) >Conrad Burns (R-MT) Bill Frist (R-TN) >John Breau (D-LA) > >For a list of the House co-sponsors to date, go to the Library of Congress >"Thomas" web site, search on the bill number (HR1592) and then scroll down and >click on "Cosponsors." Thomas will also allow you to read, print or download >the bill text. > Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 15:37:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25452 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA21576 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:58:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web607.mail.yahoo.com (web607.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.171]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA21555 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990730185654.18589.rocketmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web607.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:56:53 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:56:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: virtual coop To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: risanet@nal.usda.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1901 a fyi... New farm Web site could create virtual co-op By JAMES F. DUFFY Courier Times E-mail "Farm locally, trade globally" is the motto of the Website, HTTP://www.Farmbid.com A computer is one of the last things many would associate with farming. The idea of a farmer sitting on his John Deere and tapping on his laptop, checking the latest weather reports, commodity prices or applying for loans may be incongruous, but as with all jobs, times change. It's a trend Ted Farnsworth, president and chief operating officer of Farmbid.com, is banking on as he lays the groundwork for what he would like to see become a "virtual co-op." His Web site, www.Farmbid.com , which came online last week, has a motto: "Farm locally, trade globally." The site offers farm-related material for auction, from $188,000 "self-propelled forage harvesters" to $25 piglets to miniature plastic cattle tags starting at $4. Similar to other auction sites like ebay, Farmbid.com includes a photo and description of each item. "Most people think that farmers aren't technologically advanced and they're wrong," Farnsworth said. "Research is showing that about 70 percent of farmers have computers and about 35 percent are using the Internet - it depends on the farmer." Building the site, one of the first of its kind to offer auctions on farming products, is one thing, but getting people in the agricultural industry to use it is a different challenge. Ethel McCulloch, administrative assistant at None Such Farm in Buckingham, for example, said the farm isn't even connected to the Internet and has no plans to be until after January 2000, "after the dust settles." Michael Fournier of the Penn State Cooperative Extension of Bucks County, a university-run agricultural agency, said farmers have been using an electronic service, DTN that offers grain prices, weather reports and market information for quite some time. Use of the Internet by local farmers, however, has not exactly caught fire. "Certainly the market is there and as E-trade evolves it has some possibilities down the road, but I don't see an immediate need. When a farmer needs seed now, he'll call a seed dealer or if he needs parts for his tractor, he'll call a parts dealer," he said. "They'll use a handful of dealers and they get to trust them." Lou Saporito, an agent with the Montgomery County branch of the Penn State Cooperative Extension, said the popularity of such a site could come down to which generation is doing the farming. "Sometimes farmers are slow to adopt new technology," he said. "Unless they have children who are using the Web, they may have no exposure to it at all." Concerning the idea of the virtual co-op, Scott Dengler, an official of the Middletown Grange, said it appeared to be "a step in the right direction for farming in the 21st century." The grange promotes farming and a rural way of life. "I think it will be more well received by the younger generation. Older farmers are unlikely to change the way they are doing things," said Dengler, who has a horse and hay farm in Plumsteadville and a nursery in Feasterville. "This area has more older farmers than younger, but I think the up-and-comers, the kids involved in the 4H now, will benefit the most and take the most advantage of something like this." Thomas Trycieki, president of the Bucks County Farm Bureau, who farms about 600 acres in Mechanicsville, agreed. "Farmers like to deal with people and build relationships with individuals. They like that personal contact, that handshake of trust," he said. "I think farmers will check it out because they realize they have to change with the times to stay in business. I'm sure if some think it will make their operation better they'll use it, but I think there needs to be a balance between the technology and the personal factors." Farnsworth said the goal is to create a site that combines the technological with the personal. While continuing the auctions, weather reports and market news, he would like to add a veterinary drug store for animal medication, e-mail, chat rooms and bulletin boards. The site gets about 30,000 hits a day, with interest coming from Russia and China. "We'd like to be the Amazon.com of the agricultural arena. If nothing else, seeing the prices here could work as a good bargaining tool when dealing with a local guy," he said. "I think the true benefit will be savings to the farmer, giving smaller guys an outlet to sell their product and also bringing the farming community together. In the virtual co-op, if we have a half-million farmers online we could go to someone like State Farm and take bids for health insurance or help a farmer get financing." James F. Duffy is a reporter with The Intelligencer, Doylestown. Friday, July 30, 1999 _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 15:48:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25760 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA29611 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:09:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA29414 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990730190806.18032.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:08:06 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:08:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Gerber Baby Food To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1902 On the front page of today's Wall Street Journal is a must read article for those concerned with GMO's. It describes a letter received by Novartis, a Swiss company that owns Gerber Baby Foods. The letter was from a green peace representative in New York (Charles Margulis). The letter asked whether Gerber uses genetically engineered products in its baby food. And further it asked for the steps being taken to ensure that there are no genetically modified ingredients. Here is a snip "But the concern at Novartis is that all this could turn on a dime -- that because of Greenpeace's efforts, European worries about the safety of genetically modified crops could leap across the Atlantic and damage Gerber, the largest baby-food producer in the U.S. Novartis officials had been hoping gerber was immune to the anti-bioengineered-food passions that have whipped through Europe in recent years. The letter from Mr. margulis made them stop hoping and start planning." It goes on and on, have a read if you have an opportunity. Heinz is also mentioned as taking action. === ------------------ Kate Smith, Ph.D. Vice President AUS Consultants, Inc. 155 Gaither Drive Moorestown, NJ 08057 856-234-9200 (O) 856-234-0733 (F) _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 15:48:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25762 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA24029 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:03:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA23996 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:07:34 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'zygmont@fas.usda.gov'" Subject: FW: jojoba sources?? Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:07:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1903 -----Original Message----- From: Zygmont [mailto:Zygmont@fas.usda.gov] Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 3:32 PM To: san@nal.usda.gov Subject: Re: jojoba sources?? Andy, Forwarding this to you for posting on SANET. Thanks. Janise Zygmont FAS ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Re: jojoba sources?? Author: Coonrod at FAS05 Date: 7/30/1999 2:19 PM There are no indigenous producers of the oil. Some collect seeds from the wild but sell them to the companies which produce the oil. 1. Floratech (International Flora Technologies) 1151 North Fiesta Boulevard Gilbert AZ 85233 Tel: 602-545-7000 FAX: 602-892-3000 2. Desert Whale Jojoba Company, Inc. P.O.Box 41594 2101 East Beverly St. Tucson AZ 85717 Tel: 520-882-4195 FAX: 520-882-7821 3. Superior Natural Oils Inc. International 2555 N. Coyote Dr. Suite 118 Tucson AZ 85702 Tel: 520-624-1089 FAX: 520-624-6842 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: jojoba sources?? Author: Zygmont at FAS10 Date: 7/30/1999 11:47 AM Loyd, This entry appeared on the sustainable ag network this am. If you have any suggestions, forward them to me and I will see they are posted. Many thanks. Janise Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 00:16:37 -0700 From: "Beth Lischeron" Subject: jojoba Hello and thanks to those who responded to my post about jojoba & patchouli oil - I did check out Frontier Herbs and they don't have what am looking for which is this, specifically: Does anyone know of a producer of jojoba oil? It is my understanding that the plant from which this is produced is native to desert regions of North America - so I am assuming traditional Hopi/Navajo/Pueblo territory. Does anyone know of Indigenous producers of this product? Many thanks for your thoughts/advice/connections! Beth Lischeron ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes --------------------------- From: Coonrod at FAS05 Priority: Urgent Date: 7/30/99 2:19PM To: Zygmont at FAS10 Receipt Requested Subject: Re: jojoba sources?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 16:35:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA26904 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA02303 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:15:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mb05.swip.net (mb05.swip.net [193.12.122.209]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA02259 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d212-151-240-143.swipnet.se (d212-151-240-143.swipnet.se [212.151.240.143]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA10674 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:15:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by d212-151-240-143.swipnet.se with Microsoft Mail id <01BEDAD0.9F436740@d212-151-240-143.swipnet.se>; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:15:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01BEDAD0.9F436740@d212-151-240-143.swipnet.se> From: Jacky Foo To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Internet Conference (2000) - CALL FOR ABSTRACTS Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:13:26 +0200 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1904 1st CALL FOR ABSTRACTS Internet Conference on Material Flow Analysis of Integrated Bio-Systems (March-Oct 2000) The Institute of Advanced Studies of the United Nations University (Tokyo) (http://www.ias.unu.edu) and the UNU/IAS Integrated Bio-Systems Network (http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/ibsnet), in cooperation with other organizations, welcome authors to submit abstracts of papers for the Internet Conference on Material Flow Analysis of Integrated Bio-Systems (IC-MFA-IBS) between March and October 2000. The Conference (IC-MFA-IBS) is a follow-up of the 1998 Internet Conference on Integrated Bio-Systems (http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs) and other Internet conferences that were organized on the use of ecotechnology (1994) and ecological engineering (1995, 1996) in integrated bio-systems. IC-MFA-IBS will provide papers on the web for discussions via the web and email. The goal of the conference is to facilitate a dialogue, with the objective of generating information that is useful to academia, industry, governmental and non-governmental organizations and funding agencies, on the role and application of integrated bio-systems in zero waste and emission, food production and security, sustainable industrial and agricultural development and climate change. An integrated bio-system (IBS) integrates at least 2 sub-systems so that the wastes generated by the first system are used by the next biological sub-system to produce value-added products. A common example is the use of animal manure from a livestock sub-system to produce biogas and then using nutrients in the digested slurry for crop and fish production. The general aim of an IBS is to turn material flow with losses into a closed and integrated one. IBSs can be designed for a number of purposes, e.g. to enhance resource and waste uilisation in agriculture, aquaculture, industry and for eco-buildings, human communities and cities (see http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ibs/info for more examples). The material flow analysis (MFA) is key to the design and operation of an IBS. By quantifying the material flows, useful information is generated to solve problems, to make systems more robust to changes and for the development of new ideas, planning of projects, and decision and policy making. SCOPE This Internet Conference will have a central focus on the analysis of material flows in integrated bio-systems. The organisers welcome abstracts of papers that can describe and quantify the flow of materials in existing and conceptual bio-systems under the following themes : 1) Municipal Biodegradable Solid Recycling and Conversion Systems MFA of systems that includes recycling and conversion of biodegradables, food scraps, yard trimmings and greens into bio-fuels, organic fertiliser, animal feed, biochemicals, etc. using biological sub-systems such as anaerobic digestion, composting, vermi-culture, etc.. New methods, alternative natural systems for control or remediation to avoid the need for landfills, conventional wastewater plants, etc. 2) Wastewater Treatment and Utilisation Systems MFA of systems using plants, microbes, shellfish in wastewater treatment and use of wastewaters in crop irrigation, aquaculture, wetlands, forests, etc. crop-aquaculture, livestock-aquaculture systems, integrated aquaculture/polyculture systems, etc.. 3) Integrated Aquaculture Systems MFA of aquatic food production systems such as integrated aquaculture/polyculture systems, fish-shellfish-seaweed systems, aquaculture-terrestrial integrated bio-systems, silvifisheries, fish ranching, etc. 4) Small Scale Farming Systems MFA of household bio-systems with sub-systems like livestock, biogas digesters, fish ponds, compost, vermicompost, vegetable gardens and crops plots, fruit trees, aquatic plants, etc. 5) Large Plantations, Farms and Feedlots MFA of corporate and cooperative agricultural systems using of agro-crop residues and livestock manure for production of feed, food, fibre, chemicals, energy, etc. 6) Constructed Building Complex, greenhouse and Eco-house Systems MFA of bio-systems in/on buildings for waste water treatment, food production, hydroponics, aquaponics; waste recycling or using animals and compost to heat greenhouses, etc. 7) Industry and Eco-Industrial Parks MFA of bio-systems for cleaner production, industries and industrial parks to utilise primary by-product wastes for biochemicals, food and energy production in co-operative implmentation of shared systems for complementary recovery and use. 8) Resource Utilization and Conservation in Sustainable Eco-Systems MFA of bio-systems for sustainable resource utilisation e.g. in watersheds, reservoirs, lakes, river basins, community forests, natural parks, coral reefs, mangroves, etc.. 9) Small Islands, Community, Villages and Cities MFA of IBSs for sustainable living in human communities and for urban ecology and environmental management 10) Global Issues related to Food Security, Environment and Climate Change e.g. regional studies where integrated bio-systems are used to play crucial roles to sustain food security, zero emissions and wastes; and reduction of greenhouse gases. 11) Tools and Methodology for Design and Analysis of Integrated Bio-Systems. e.g. softwares and methods for material flow analysis PROCEDURE FOR SUBMISSION AND REVIEW OF ABSTRACTS Abstracts should not be more than 1 page in size and may contain text, table, diagrams. It should include title of paper, full name(s) and postal and email address(es) of author(s), abstract and keywords. Please send abstracts to foo@swipnet.se. All submitted abstracts will be reviewed by the Planning Group of the Conference. Authors should wait for formal notification of acceptance before proceeding into preparation of the full papers. DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSION OF ABSTRACTS The deadline for the 1st Call for Abstracts is Oct 31, 1999. A 2nd Call for Abstracts will be made at a later date, if needed. CONFERENCE INFORMATION General information is available at http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ic-mfa/ Future announcements will be made via http://segate.sunet.se/archives/et-w11.html To receive conference announcements by email, please send an email to listserv@segate.sunet.se and use the subscription command: SUB ET-W11 yourfirstname yourlastname, organization e.g. SUB ET-W11 Ted Tschang, UNU/IAS-Tokyo SECRETARIAT Please address all requests or questions to: Mr. Jacky Foo Fax: 46-8-314620 *****General Request to Readers***** If you have a friend whose work could be presented in this Internet Conference, please forward this CALL FOR ABSTRACTS to your friends. Thank you To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 16:47:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27257 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA04553 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:10:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA04536 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.103] (ppp-206-170-32-103.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.103]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10242 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:07:46 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Reuters/Belgium--dioxin in food Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1905 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. Apparently it's necessary for me to remind folks that my passing along items from news services does not mean I believe in or endorse everything in them. I'm here to share information I run across, folks, not to tell anybody what to think about it. I preassume that each of you has your own interpretive thinking-cap, and that there are as many caps out there as heads they sit on. If not more. Though I am likely to also share my own humble opinions from time to time. ;^) peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DIOXIN & PCB CONTAMINATION, FOOD - BELGIUM: UPDATE ************************************************* A ProMED-mail post Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:49:41 -0400 From: "Marjorie P. Pollack" Source: Reuters 29 Jul 1999 [edited] Belgium blocks 175 farms in new food scare - --------------------------------------------- Belgium has quarantined another 175 poultry and pig farms as a scare over food contaminated with the cancer-causing chemical dioxin flared up again, a government source said on Thursday. The source said the authorities took the step after tests revealed polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), toxic chemicals which can indicate the presence of dioxins, in animal feed. The feed was supplied by the firm Versele, which used animal fat from Verkest, one of two fats processors identified as the source of Belgium's original dioxin crisis. That erupted in late May, causing Europe's worst health scare since mad cow disease. The crisis triggered worldwide bans on sales of Belgian meat, chicken, eggs, dairy products and processed foods, and led voters to oust the coalition government in June elections. Belgium told the European Union's Standing Veterinary Committee about the 175 new farms on Thursday morning, the government source said. Government officials were trying to convince the committee, made up of senior veterinary officials from the 15 EU countries, that Belgium's handling of the crisis was adequate. ``This is a precautionary measure. The level of contamination is very low. But we are being very strict now. The prime minister said last week that if there was any contamination we would quarantine farms,'' the source told Reuters. But he stressed there was no new source of contamination other than Verkest and fats processor Fogra, which was also implicated in the original contamination scandal. Belgium's latest action brings to around 1000 the number of farms placed under quarantine since late May. It flared up again last week when the government said it had added another 233 pig farms to the original blacklist in mid-July after new tests revealed high levels of PCBs in feed. The new government, which took office less than three weeks ago, has been struggling to resolve the complex crisis, which is officially estimated to cost over $1.5 billion in lost revenue. Belgium said on Tuesday it would buy back and destroy stocks of potentially contaminated pork and processed pork foods with a fat content of over 20 percent. The stocks were impounded in June as a safety precaution along with suspect beef and poultry. The EU insists all possibly risky products with a fat content of more than 2 percent must be destroyed, meaning foodstuffs now on the market would also have to be recalled. EU vets also want Belgium to explain a sudden resurgence of dioxins in feedstuffs on March 11, after the previous administration said contamination was limited to January [1999], and why an all-clear certificate was granted to a farm where dioxin-tainted produce was discovered. Belgian officials were also trying on Thursday to convince Denmark to lift its threat to ban all Belgian meat imports from Friday. Discussions continued on Thursday over a government proposal to grant interest-free loans to farmers whose revenue has dropped over 30 percent as a result of the crisis. The EU's executive Commission, which last week approved Belgian state aid to farms and food firms whose goods were impounded in the dioxin scare, says the new, wider aid package could distort competition in the EU's 15-nation internal market. "That means the Belgian proposal will have to be adapted,'' Bok Van De Voorde, spokesman for the government's dioxin trouble-shooter Freddy Willockx, told Reuters. [By Gillian Handyside] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 18:52:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA01072 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA21594 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:19:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA21563 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990730222204.23082.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.221] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:22:04 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:22:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Recommended Listservs To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1906 I need your help! (Certainly would appreciate it) I get requests for listserv (or email-lists) information quite often, and would like your help in collating those that fit within the lamplight of sustainable agriculture into a factsheet. Searching the net is taking too long with too few hits. What I need is a name of the listserv and the host. Without those I'm sunk. If you have subscription information that'd be great. (you could just forward an email to me from the listserv you want to recommend) Some I'm thinking of is the small farms, homestead list, organic gardening list, csa list, etc. And yes, sanet! Kirsten Saylor Sustainable Agriculture Network (SAN) c/o AFSIC, National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave., rm 304 Beltsville, MD 20705 W: 301/504-6173 F: 301/504-6409 ksaylor@nal.usda.gov www.sare.org SAN has an online, interactive Event Calendar AND an online, interactive Sourcebook of Sustainable Agriculture literature and resources. Check it out! www.sare.org _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 22:01:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA03878 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA27774 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:02:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA27688 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.250.236]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990731010132.QAMD5731@worldnet.att.net>; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 01:01:32 +0000 Message-ID: <37A24ABB.DC2EA1C8@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:00:44 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha , SANET-mg Subject: Re: Reuters/Belgium--dioxin in food References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1907 What most people don't understand is that even when we eat flesh grown by the organic method, it still has the possibilty to be contaminated with dioxins from agricultural pesticides, biosolids and fertilizers, incinerators that burn hospital waste, solid waste --garbage, toxic industrial wastes, chemical plants, and other industrial sources. Not only is the seed contaminated, but the soil is also. Not to mention the dioxin particles that attach to carbon and fall out over the planet and agriculture. Industry must work with governments, and consumers must be made aware rather than kept misinformed and controlled by corporate PR people in order to keep their dollars coming back into offending corporations. In Belgium and other countries where the press controls corporate disinformation better than in the U.S., the public is more informed. Bunny Snow ---------------- Misha wrote: > Howdy, all-- > > Thought this might interest some of you. > > Apparently it's necessary for me to remind folks that my passing > along items from news services does not mean I believe in or endorse > everything in them. I'm here to share information I run across, > folks, not to tell anybody what to think about it. I preassume that > each of you has your own interpretive thinking-cap, and that there > are as many caps out there as heads they sit on. If not more. Though > I am likely to also share my own humble opinions from time to time. > > ;^) > > peace > misha > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > DIOXIN & PCB CONTAMINATION, FOOD - BELGIUM: UPDATE > ************************************************* > A ProMED-mail post > > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 11:49:41 -0400 > From: "Marjorie P. Pollack" > Source: Reuters 29 Jul 1999 [edited] > > Belgium blocks 175 farms in new food scare > - --------------------------------------------- > Belgium has quarantined another 175 poultry and pig farms as a scare over > food contaminated with the cancer-causing chemical dioxin flared up again, a > government source said on Thursday. > > The source said the authorities took the step after tests revealed > polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), toxic chemicals which can indicate the > presence of dioxins, in animal feed. > > The feed was supplied by the firm Versele, which used animal fat from > Verkest, one of two fats processors identified as the source of Belgium's > original dioxin crisis. That erupted in late May, causing Europe's worst > health scare since mad cow disease. > > The crisis triggered worldwide bans on sales of Belgian meat, chicken, eggs, > dairy products and processed foods, and led voters to oust the coalition > government in June elections. > > Belgium told the European Union's Standing Veterinary Committee about the > 175 new farms on Thursday morning, the government source said. > > Government officials were trying to convince the committee, made up of > senior veterinary officials from the 15 EU countries, that Belgium's > handling of the crisis was adequate. > > ``This is a precautionary measure. The level of contamination is very low. > But we are being very strict now. The prime minister said last week that if > there was any contamination we would quarantine farms,'' the source told > Reuters. > > But he stressed there was no new source of contamination other than Verkest > and fats processor Fogra, which was also implicated in the original > contamination scandal. > > Belgium's latest action brings to around 1000 the number of farms placed > under quarantine since late May. It flared up again last week when the > government said it had added another 233 pig farms to the original blacklist > in mid-July after new tests revealed high levels of PCBs in feed. > > The new government, which took office less than three weeks ago, has been > struggling to resolve the complex crisis, which is officially estimated to > cost over $1.5 billion in lost revenue. > > Belgium said on Tuesday it would buy back and destroy stocks of potentially > contaminated pork and processed pork foods with a fat content of over 20 > percent. The stocks were impounded in June as a safety precaution along with > suspect beef and poultry. > > The EU insists all possibly risky products with a fat content of more than 2 > percent must be destroyed, meaning foodstuffs now on the market would also > have to be recalled. > > EU vets also want Belgium to explain a sudden resurgence of dioxins in > feedstuffs on March 11, after the previous administration said contamination > was limited to January [1999], and why an all-clear certificate was granted > to a farm where dioxin-tainted produce was discovered. > > Belgian officials were also trying on Thursday to convince Denmark to lift > its threat to ban all Belgian meat imports from Friday. > > Discussions continued on Thursday over a government proposal to grant > interest-free loans to farmers whose revenue has dropped over 30 percent as > a result of the crisis. > > The EU's executive Commission, which last week approved Belgian state aid to > farms and food firms whose goods were impounded in the dioxin scare, says > the new, wider aid package could distort competition in the EU's 15-nation > internal market. > > "That means the Belgian proposal will have to be adapted,'' Bok Van De > Voorde, spokesman for the government's dioxin trouble-shooter Freddy > Willockx, told Reuters. > [By Gillian Handyside] > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 22:49:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA04582 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:49:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA15445 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:35:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA15379 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0171.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.182.171]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06047; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A1185A.53B3C34A@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:13:30 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lester Loam , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Negative people? I don't think so ... References: <19990727141140.76326.qmail@hotmail.com> <379DDA1B.431C504@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1908 Of course "good" people are wanting things in this world system to be good, clean, supportive of right attitudes, etc etc., But the fact is that no human effort, individual or collective, will ever be able to produce such a world. That is why we are so "lucky" to be able to know that, although humans cannot produce this enlightened state, the Creator can and will do so. That is the end of my sayson on it. and really, it is not MY sayso, but that of the one and only perfect Mind. End of topic. Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > Maybe Mr. Wilson is referring to me--maybe I flatter myself. > But there is one error afloat. The real Apocalypse is the one the Bible > describes, and it is the second best news the world has ever heard. The number 1 > best news is that this Apocalypse is to be done by the Creator, and will be > immediately followed by the restoration of Eden, worldwide. > Maybe people should be more careful about the terms they use. If you use a > term from the Bible, you should make clear the main point the Bible makes about > the apocalyptic Armageddon--that it will instantly be followed by restoration of > total perfection--Eden again and this time forever. > No point in complaining that I bring up the Bible on an organic list--every > bit of ag in Bible times WAS organic, and will be totally so, forever, following > the Apocalypse. And I did not start this--he did. > > Lester Loam wrote: > > > Dale Wilson wrote: > > > > >This list is filled with negative people, apparently worshipping >the > > >coming apocalypse. > > > > Dale: > > > > I beg to differ. Most of the people on sanet and most in the sustainable ag > > community are among the most positive people I know. They don't worship the > > apocalypse. They're doing all they can to make sure that it doesn't happen > > in their lifetime or anytime in the near future. > > > > I'm not trying to speak for all, but I think most in the sustainable ag > > community have a strong, clear and positive vision of the world as it could > > be. They see the small percentage of farmers who have broken from the > > conventional paradigm (or never embraced it) and are forging sustainable > > operations that are economically and environmentally sustainable -- or at > > least closer to it than the run-of-the-mill farm. They envision what the > > world would look like if this were the rule, rather than the exception, and > > they like what they see. > > > > They see thriving rural communities. They see humane livestock systems. > > They see a global food system that is just and provides everyone with > > sufficient, secure and healthful food supplies. > > > > This is not an apocalyptic vision. Utopian, maybe. But not doom and gloom. > > > > If you sense negativity from this group, it is possibly because they are > > negative about business as usual. It might be that they are negative about > > the tactics you embrace to reach your somewhat different vision of a > > sustainable future. > > > > Are sustainable ag people defensive? You bet. I think that perhaps a > > decade ago, they were encouraged that there appeared to be bridges to their > > sustainable vision. But lately, very powerful forces appear to be trying to > > slam the door shut on their vision. It's easy to get defensive when you see > > the window of opportunity shrinking on your vision. > > > > Consequently, you hear a lot more criticism of what's happening today than > > you hear about the positive vision of the future. Is that what you > > interpret as negativity? > > > > Lester > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Jul 30 23:51:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA05299 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA12808 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA12752 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA04820; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA02448; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:12:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:12:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Kirsten Saylor cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Recommended Listservs In-Reply-To: <19990730222204.23082.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1909 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture - On Fri, 30 Jul 1999, Kirsten Saylor wrote: > What I need is a name of the listserv and the host. - permaculture mailing lists: 1)permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu (this one will soon be bi-directionally gated to the alt.permaculture list) 2)permaculture@envirolink.org subscription info is here: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/permaculture/misc/PC-listservs 3)permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu and many other lists, i.e. organic gardening, seed saving, soil quality, small farming, market gardening, and others - these lists are also fully accessable as newsgroups and as webforums - read and post using all three methods - all posts are archives and are publically readable) subscription info is here: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt 4)perma-l@linda.swin.de (Germany, hosted by Thilo Pfennig, mostly German language) 5)perma@eepo.com.au (Australia, hosted by Permaculture Association of Western Australia, PAWA, http://www.eepo.com.au/perma) send email to: listserver@eepo.com.au with message text: SUBSCRIBE PERMA homestead mailing list: subscription info is here: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/permaculture/misc/homestead.mailing-list csa-l mailing list: subscription info is here: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/csa/CSA-L.mailing-list.INFO organic-l mailing list (a UK list): subscription info is here: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/net-resources/organic-l.mailing-list bdnow@envirolink.org (Biodynamics) Send subscription requests to: bdnow@igg.com Newsgroups: alt.permaculture (new and very nice, no spam, no flames) own.eco.permaculture (may have to get this at DejaNews) alt.sustainable.agriculture rec.gardens.edible alt.solar.thermal (an exceptionally fine newsgroup for home-built energy systems and energy-efficient architecture - see also alt.architecture.alternative) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 00:50:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06328 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA20037 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:17:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA20027 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.214.220.5] (ppp-207-214-220-5.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.214.220.5]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12313 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990730222204.23082.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <19990730222204.23082.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:12:33 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Friday URLs: sustag and ag list servers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1910 Howdy, all-- Kirsten Saylor wrote: >I get requests for listserv (or email-lists) >information quite often, and would like your help in >collating those that fit within the lamplight of >sustainable agriculture into a factsheet. Searching >the net is taking too long with too few hits. > >What I need is a name of the listserv and the host. >Without those I'm sunk. If you have subscription >information that'd be great. (you could just forward >an email to me from the listserv you want to >recommend) I don't yet have my Windows Netscape bookmarks file installed on my Mac here at Misha-By-The-Sea, but I turned up the following on Alta Vista: Agriculture discussion groups and mailing lists http://www.oneglobe.com/agriculture/newslist.html Ag mailing lists http://georgia.ncl.ac.uk/IFS/AgLists.html Truncate this URL to the host to find the author. Mailing lists related to sustainable agriculture http://www.vtt.co.jp/staff/ancha/maillists.html Toggle off your cookies, or be prepared to click Cancel a lot (if you don't accept them, which I don't). Agriculture discussion groups and mailing lists http://www.farm.ie/links/discuss.html Ontario Ministry of Ag Web links http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/external_links/ruralink.htm References to list servers are under the commodity areas. This was a very quick search--ten minutes--so I'm sure there's more out there. I searched on the term "agriculture e-mail lists." I didn't try "agricultural" or "agricult?" or related wild cards. "Agriculture e-mail" turned up 269 hits. I also didn't look for "alternative ag" or "regenerative ag" or commodity types by name or farm type (like "goat" or "small farm e-mail" or "small farm mailing list"). Memory tells me there is a fabulous collection of links and lists by someone in Cortland, NY, with categories of sustainable and alternative ag--Craig, are you there? Do you know what/who I mean? Someone at SUNY, if I am remembering correctly. Dang, not having one's bookmarks handy is like a dream of conducting the SF Symphony nekked. ;^) There are these resources for anyone searching for e-mail lists: List of lists http://www.ulv.edu/~acs/general/list.html Links include the list search engines Liszt and CataList. They have more or less effectiveness depending on your search terms...but that's true for any bot. See also Publicly accessible mailing lists http://www.neosoft.com/internet/paml/ A simple query on "agriculture" turned up about 20 hits. The limit of this engine is that people apparently have to submit their sites. Of course, from the ranks of our own SANETtitude: Intergarden http://metalab.unc.edu/london/Gateway_to_Archives.html Larry's done a lot of the work for all of us in selecting mailing/discussion lists and linking to subscription info. And lastly but not leastly: Sustainable Farming Connection Coffee Shop http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/forums.html You didn't know Craig was into Java, eh??? :^) Search tips for richer finds: --Use AltaVista and follow their search protocols. Still the best search engine I've used. In the sense that it turns up more university, nonprofit, and governmental hits, in my experience, than other engines. --Use singular instead of plural search terms. Searching on "mailing lists" will lead the engine to overlook hits on "mailing list." Software is very literal. --Don't use commercial terms or Internet terms (like "listserv" or "listproc"). --Try searching on "e-mail" with and without the hyphen. Without the hyphen is gloppy English, or actually it's French: "email" is a French word for a particular enamelling technique. You wouldn't say Hbomb or Dday or Xcoordinate. But people will and do say "email," so might as well search on it. --As for the neologism "edress" or "eddress," don't get me started. I can think of some other places to look, but this is the 20-minute hit. My first Friday Afternoon SANET URL Hunt in California! Only now instead of doing whatever I used to do on Madison on a Friday...I get to walk on the beach, watch the sun set, and wonder why people would even think of surfing in 56-degree water. %^> With sharks in it. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This "telephone" has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us. --Western Union internal memo, 1876. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 00:52:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06351 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA22824 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:25:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA22765 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:25:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0192.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.192]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15894; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A274EA.2E4C9700@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:00:43 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: killer jokes References: <643A0FA6A12@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1911 If you are talking about the speech by the head of USDA, that remark of his about weeds being the cause of starvation in Africa,---that was a crazy remark. I grew up in that king of primitive territory, and it certainly not weeds that cause people to starve in Africa. For years those people cut down the forests for fuel to cook their food. Then when the forests were gone, the whole system changed--rain patterns, soil degradation/erosion, etc. Weeds were never a cause of lack of food. If he said it as a joke, the joke was in very bad taste. Starving is serious business. ============================= Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Someone wrote: > > > Does anyone have information about what [African] killer weeds he's talking about? > > And I answered: > > Personally I think he must be talking about ones like the species > > Politicious corruptous. :-) > > But for some reason I got some personal responses to this giving me > actual weed spp. names as if my answer had been serious. Just to let > you know, this was a joke! (If you don't get it, read it again.) Ha > ha! Anita > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 00:52:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA06359 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA22798 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:25:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA22743 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0192.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.192]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15686; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A2731E.AD28F897@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:53:02 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Elazar CC: Kate Smith , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Spirituality--that other dimension References: <99Jul30.102417cdt.26883@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1912 All humans ARE souls, just as animals are souls, they are bodies with brains, but humans have better brains than animals. The authority is the One who made people, and He says they ARE souls. If you are referring to something immaterial, there is no basis for that A human is a live body with brain, same as an animal, or the soul can also mean the life of the person or animal. There is no immaterial entity part of any creature, human or animal. The difference is that a human person, once dead, can be restored to life if that is the wish of the Person who created humans and animals. Well, I suppose such a reply will bring up that this list is for ag, not other topics. Right. =============================== Pat Elazar wrote: > I think you said it all Kate! > > Amen. > > [large snip] > ...So in my paradigm or construct of the ultimately > unknowable, we are all material beings (have a body) but > each of us has a soul or spirit that is part of Creation. > Thus we are all connected. Connected to one another, > connected to those who have lived before and will live > after us. And most importantly to this group, connected to > the earth, which I believe has a consciousness that is the > gestalt of all the souls that have or will live on her. > > Well that is no doubt too much said already. Is there > anyone else out there with a comment? > > Peace, kate > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 02:21:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA07456 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 02:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA08088 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 01:49:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from host.cillnet.com (host.cillnet.com [207.50.125.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA08069 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 01:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cillnet.com ([208.158.143.83]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:49:43 -0500 Message-ID: <37A28DB6.DC1F3057@cillnet.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:46:30 -0500 From: fjohnson@cillnet.com (Floyd Johnson) Reply-To: fjohnson@cillnet.com X-Sender: "Floyd Johnson" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: [Fwd: Paramagnetism?] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------18EA6C691259F73D6DA6C4DA" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1913 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------18EA6C691259F73D6DA6C4DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip S. Callahan has several books on paramagnetism. He is a Ph.D. and a very interesting Author and person. Floyd --------------18EA6C691259F73D6DA6C4DA Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu ([152.1.45.61]) by host.cillnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-54421U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:48:45 -0500 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA29735 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:52:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nornet.nor.com.au (nornet.nor.com.au [203.15.154.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA29602 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 04:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ahotson (ppp179.nor.com.au [203.15.154.99]) by nornet.nor.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA21311 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:51:44 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <030a01bed99f$b33d0260$509a0fcb@ahotson> From: "Anthony Hotson" To: "Sanet" Subject: Paramagnetism? Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:52:30 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0307_01BED9F3.829D9BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0307_01BED9F3.829D9BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was wondering if anyone could help me: I heard reference the other day to 'paramagnetism' of basaltic materials = in, and as an amendment to, soils... and the ability of such materials = to influence nutrient availability and/or plant health/vigour. Is anyone familiar with the specifics of this theory and just what this = 'paramagnetic' influence is. =20 I farm on the basaltic red krasnozem soils of the ex-rainforest region = of Nth NSW Australia (Sub-tropical) and have heard anecdotes of = hail-attracting bands of basalt in various localities here. Is this a = part of this effect too? Any pointers as to where a might find more information much appreciated. Thanks, Anthony. Tuckombil Native Foods PO Box 281 ALSTONVILLE NSW 2477 AUSTRALIA ahotson@nor.com.au Fax/Tel +61 2 6628 5558 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0307_01BED9F3.829D9BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I was wondering if anyone could help me:
     
    I heard reference the other day to 'paramagnetism' of basaltic = materials=20 in, and as an amendment to, soils... and the ability of such materials = to=20 influence nutrient availability and/or plant health/vigour.
     
    Is anyone familiar with the specifics of this theory and just what = this=20 'paramagnetic' influence is. 
     
    I farm on the basaltic red krasnozem soils of the ex-rainforest = region of=20 Nth NSW Australia (Sub-tropical) and have heard anecdotes of = hail-attracting=20 bands of basalt in various localities here.  Is this a part of this = effect=20 too?
     
    Any pointers as to where a might find more information much=20 appreciated.
     
    Thanks,
    Anthony.
     
     
    Tuckombil Native Foods
    PO Box 281
    ALSTONVILLE NSW=20 2477
    AUSTRALIA
    ahotson@nor.com.au
    Fax/Tel = ; =20 +61 2 6628 5558 
    ------=_NextPart_000_0307_01BED9F3.829D9BC0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------18EA6C691259F73D6DA6C4DA-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 09:41:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10350 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA02913 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:59:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02895 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:59:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-46.csj.net [12.29.22.46]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA08326 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:00:17 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Subject: GMO prophesy Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 07:59:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000401bedb54$8fb9b200$a32efea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1914 Up until now I have had no opinion on the GMO debate other than a sense of unease because there truly is little scientific data to refute it. If you do not believe in psychic clairvoyance, as I did not five years ago, then delete this post. As happens occasionally, yesterday I was given clairvoyant scientific information. Psychic input is not yet recognized as science, but this is how I do start my science, building on information I am given. I generally do not publicize how I was able to figure something out. (Case in point: run a search on 2,4 D and ATP, the energy molecule. Depletion of ATP, is the true, and yet unrecognized horror of 2,4D. The destructive pathways will be published in a patent in the fall.) However, this piece is too important to hide in my journals, I can't patent it, and it contained specific instructions. Due to the length of the input (it evolved over 15 hours), the high electromagnetic changes occurring now, and the specific time frames, I have a very high degree of confidence in the following prophesy: By the end of the first third of the next century (~2035) the effects of the GMO (genetically modified organisms) will be seen. The delay in recognizing the horror will duplicate what happened with DDT in the 50's. By the last third of the next century, ~2075, human Siamese twins will be a common occurrence of 1 per 1,000 births. Every school will have a set. Since the data and science is not yet in place to explain why this would happen or prevent it, the best we can do now is start a scrapbook, notebook, or file box with newspaper clippings, internet stories and e-mails detailing the political history and public reaction to the unfolding of this atrocity. Save them carefully wrapped and bequeath the files to an appropriate person or library in your will. Peace. Donna Fezler To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 10:20:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10928 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24136 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:39:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24122 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19744 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp143.green.eri.net [207.90.124.207]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10599 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000e01bedb5b$f8c1a620$cf7c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: Spirituality--that other dimension Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:52:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1915 You said it very well with one exception. We are all connected but though our Creator and you left Him out. Go with God, Paul -----Original Message----- From: Pat Elazar To: Kate Smith Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 11:47 AM Subject: Re: Spirituality--that other dimension >I think you said it all Kate! > >Amen. > > >[large snip] >...So in my paradigm or construct of the ultimately >unknowable, we are all material beings (have a body) but >each of us has a soul or spirit that is part of Creation. >Thus we are all connected. Connected to one another, >connected to those who have lived before and will live >after us. And most importantly to this group, connected to >the earth, which I believe has a consciousness that is the >gestalt of all the souls that have or will live on her. > >Well that is no doubt too much said already. Is there >anyone else out there with a comment? > >Peace, kate > > > >_____________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 17:07:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16764 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA09601 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:13:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.clarityconnect.com (smtp.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09553 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarityconnect.com (206.64.143.5) by smtp.clarityconnect.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:12:28 -0400 Received: from Craig (24.95.191.247) by clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d2); Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:55:44 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990731151722.00a2a6f0@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: cdcramer@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:59:35 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Craig Cramer Subject: Friday URLs: sustag and ag list servers Cc: kir139@yahoo.com, mgs23@pacbell.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1916 Misha wrote: > > Memory tells me there is a fabulous collection of links and lists by > someone in Cortland, NY, with categories of sustainable and > alternative ag--Craig, are you there? Do you know what/who I mean? I'm guessing that it's the Digital Librarian maintained by Margaret Vail Anderson, a librarian here in Cortland, N.Y. She has a ton of links there, and a ton of ag links. It's worth checking out: http://www.servtech.com/~mvail/ > > And lastly but not leastly: > Sustainable Farming Connection Coffee Shop > http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/forums.html > You didn't know Craig was into Java, eh??? :^) Actually, other than a little cut & paste and trial and error, I'm not. Glancing at that page, I can't vouch that it's very up to date. But there are some links there to other lists of ag discussion groups. There are also some discussion groups there that I found useful maybe two years ago. Some I still read. Others I don't. Here are some others that I don't think have been mentioned yet. (Sorry I didn't save all the subscribe info. I'll at least try to supply some contact info): *SAED-SHARE-L@cornell.edu -- Not much in the way of nuts and bolts farming stuff. But this is a great list for folks interested in approaches to sustainable ag education. Contact Nancy Grudens-Schuck at ng13@cornell.edu. (Give her some time. She's moving from Cornell to Iowa State about now.) *graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz -- This one has been mentioned, hasn't it? It was Misha's baby. It was pioneering. And it worked. *graze-r -- This is one you may not be aware of. It's another grazing discussion group that broke off from graze-l. Go to http://www.onelist.com/ and search for "grazing." It's pretty much all farmers and though the discussion strays from the subject a little there is some excellent information flowing here, upwards of 15 to 25 messages a day the past few weeks. I guess grazier do have more time on their hands than other dairy farmers. Which brings me to a wonderful point. I had bad experiences a couple years ago trying to use some of these free online discussion group services. They weren't very stable. But they've got the bugs out of them now, so just about anyone can start their own discussion group on any topic that they please. *There is also a pastured poultry discussion group at onelist.com. Make sure you join PasturePoultry and not ppoultry. (The former is active, the latter is pretty much dead.) *There are three USDA lists that are at least of parallel interest: veg-prod@reeusda.gov smallfarm@reeusda.gov direct-mkt@maat.reeusda.gov It would be great to have a "more sustainable" presence on these, not that there isn't any now. There are a few others that are more focused just on food issues in the Northeast that I can probably track down info on. I'd bet there are similar ones in other regions. Then if you want to get into issue oriented lists, I know there's one on biotechnology that comes out of Cornell, and I'm sure that there are others on just about any ag topic you care to name. The interactive features of the Internet have really blossomed in the last year. Don't let all this information flying around keep you from your chores. But if it's interaction you want on a topic near and dear to you, you can either find a discussion about it or create your own. Kirsten: I'm sure all of us would love to see what you pull together on this. Will you post a page at the AFSIC website? If that's a hassle just send me the information and I'll add it to the Coffeeshop page at Sustainable Farming Connection. Craig Craig Cramer mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming http://1000ways.baka.com Sustainable Farming Connection http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 19:52:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18729 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA18991 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:17:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA18947 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (root@rac7.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.147]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26985 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA22267 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22263 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:16:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac7.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:16:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Brooks Gruver To: sanet Subject: spirituality as the foundation of sustainable agriculture In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990731151722.00a2a6f0@mail.clarityconnect.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1917 Hello to all... Debate about what motivates farmers to choose management practices is a perennial thread that will weave its way through the SANET archives as long as SANET exists... The recent request for discussion about how spirituality relates to sustainable agriculture has motivated me to share a few thoughts. I think that "spirituality" is at the root of why farmers develop and adopt stewardship oriented management systems. While economics and government regulations are certainly key factors that drive managment decisions, I believe that nearly all farmers that have developed and adopted "stewardship oriented management systems" (not just select conservation management practives) are motivated by a deep conviction that they are farming in a way that is good for their land. When I use the term "stewardship oriented management systems", I am refering to management systems implemented by farmers that at some level, are consciously attempting to sustain and/or improve their farms natural resource base. These farmers may not be familiar with the lingo of ecology, yet they use management systems that both benefit from ecosystem processes and maintain the integrity of these processes. I recommend that all of you read the following publication: Moore, P., Nopar, D., Paddock, J. and R. Kroese. 1988. Excellence in agriculture : interviews with ten Minnesota stewardship farmers. Land Stewardship Project, Stillwater, MN, 105p. Some of the interviewed farmers are organic, others are not... all use management practices that they think are good for their land. Many of the farmers are religious people that are guided in their stewardship of the land by their religious principles. Stewardship farmers make management decisions that are constrained by economic and regulatory realities... however, the dominant constraint which bears upon every management decision is their sense of right and wrong. An individuals sense of right and wrong may be grounded in a specific religious tradition, in core convictions arrived at through self-discovery or any number of influences. The bottom line is that one's sense of right and wrong is something spiritual that is beyond profit, survival of the fittest or fear of punishment. I think that some of the activists in the organic movement would be very surprised if they had a conversation with some of the long term no-till farmers that I collaborated with during my Masters degree research on farmer perceptions of soil quality. These farmers are deeply interested in stewardship of their land and are fervent believers that they have greatly improved the soils on their farm through long-term no-till (with herbicides and synthetic fertilizers). My analysis of their soils showed that nearly all the long-term no-till soils had high levels of soil health indicator parameters e.g. organic matter and microbial biomass and aggregate stability. As in any business, some farmers are guided in their actions by strong principles while others are trying to get away with whatever they can. I accept that different farmers have different concepts of the best management practices for their land. Sustainability is inherently diverse in form. Farmers, scientists, politicians, people... that are not guided in their actions by strong principles are the bane of sustainability. Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research University of MD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Jul 31 21:08:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19965 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 21:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA00203 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:32:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.clarityconnect.com (smtp.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA00135 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarityconnect.com (206.64.143.5) by smtp.clarityconnect.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:21:33 -0400 Received: from Craig (128.84.227.244) by clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d2); Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:08:10 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990731200147.00a26a60@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: cdcramer@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:09:56 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Craig Cramer Subject: Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1918 I saw this on another list today, and thought it worth passing along. There is an online version and archives of other Global Citizen columns by Donella at: http://www.tidepool.org/gcarchive.html Craig Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture By Donella Meadows JULY 30, 1999 "I guess you must be in favor of pesticides," concluded a Monsanto public relations guy, after I objected to his company's genetically engineered potato. "I guess it's OK with you if people starve," said a botanist I deeply respect, with whom I have carried out a fervent argument about genetic engineering. Accusations like these astonish me. I'm an organic farmer; I'm not in favor of pesticides. I've spent decades working to end hunger; it is not OK with me that anyone starves. I believe that my two accusers and I are working toward exactly the same goal -- feeding everyone without wrecking the environment. We would all label that goal "sustainable agriculture." But we must be making radically different assumptions about what that goal looks like and how to get there from here. The idea that if I oppose genetic engineering, I must favor pesticides, arises from an assumption that those are the only two choices. If they were, I would probably agree that it's better to fool with genomes than to spray poisons over the countryside. But I see other choices. Plant many kinds of crops and rotate them, instead of one or two crops year after year, which make a perfect breeding ground for pests. Build up ecosystems above ground and in the soil so natural enemies rise and fall with the pests, searching and destroying with a specificity and safety and elegance that neither chemicals nor engineering can match. These are pest control methods based not on chemistry or genetics, but on ecology. They work. I know. I use them. I know dozens of organic farmers who use them. Small scale and large. Northeast, South, Midwest, West. Apples, lettuce, potatoes, strawberries, broccoli, rice, soybeans, wheat, corn. The claim that we need genetic engineering to feed the hungry must be based on two assumptions: first that more food will actually go to hungry people, second that genetic engineering is the only way to raise more food. I assume, to the contrary, that more food will not help those who can't afford to buy or grow it, especially if it comes from expensive, patented, designer seed. Furthermore, more food is not needed. We already grow enough to nourish everyone. If just one-third of the grain fed to animals went to humans instead, we would not have 24,000 deaths per day due to hunger. Or if 40 percent post-harvest loss rates in poor countries were reduced. Or if we shared the embarrassing crop surpluses of North America and Europe. Or if we created an economy where everyone had money to buy food or land to grow it -- which would solve a lot of other problems too. Where, when or if more food is needed, there are ways to produce it that don't require biotech or chemicals. Folks with an industrial ag mindset assume that organic agriculture would cut yields. Not only is there no evidence for that assumption, there are numerous studies to the contrary. One of the latest appeared in Nature last year; its summary opens like this: "In comparison with conventional, high-intensity agricultural methods, 'organic' alternatives can improve soil fertility and have fewer detrimental effects on the environment. These alternatives can also produce equivalent crop yields to conventional methods." Imagine what yields could be if even one-tenth as much research effort were put into organic farming as has been put into chemicals or genetics. When I show this evidence to proponents of high-tech farming, when I offer to take them to see organic farms, when I point out that hunger could be ended by sharing food or technologies that raise output without poisoning the\ earth or invading the genome, I don't think my argument even reaches their auditory nerves, much less their brains. That kind of extreme failure even to hear an argument, much less process it, alerts me that this is not a rational discussion. It is a worldview difference, a paradigm gap, a disagreement about morals and values and identities and fundamental assumptions about the way the world works. I assume the world works by the laws of ecology and economics and human nature. Ecology says that monocultures breed pests; that chemicals upset soil ecosystems and kill off natural predators; that crops with pesticide in every cell will induce pest resistance; that animals and plants should be grown in close proximity so manure can go back to the soil; and that we haven't the slightest idea what the ecological or evolutionary consequences of genetic engineering will be. Economics says you can never have a sustainable market if you produce something consumers fear and you hide critical information about how it was produced and what it contains. Because industrial agriculture has violated that law and lost the trust of consumers, the market for organic produce is growing in American and Europe by 20-30 percent per year, even with a price premium; it now totals over $9 billion. Human nature says the more actual producers can own and shape and control land and inputs and seeds and knowledge, the more inventive, adaptive, and equitable agriculture will be. Acceptance of those laws shapes my vision of sustainable agriculture. I picture healthy ecosystems and healthy human beings working together in thriving, close-knit communities. Farms are small, owner-operated, with what Wes Jackson calls a "high eyes-to-acres ratio," which means they are well managed and high-yielding. Farmers make more use of knowledge and people than of chemicals and seeds they can't breed for themselves. Animals are raised on all farms; there are good reasons why ecosystems don't concentrate all the plants in one place and all the animals in another. Food is grown everywhere, in cities, in suburbs. The distance from producer to consumer is short, there are fewer supermarkets, more farmers markets, less packaging, more freshness. The principle of one of my favorite organic farmers permeates the system: 'I'm not growing food, I'm growing health." To those who do not believe such a vision is possible, I can only say, it exists, it's alive and well and growing, it's even more profitable than the industrial vision, the food tastes better, the work is more pleasurable. I live in this vision. I have friends all over the world who live in it. Come see. -30- Donella H. Meadows is an adjunct professor of environmental studies at Dartmouth College. More about Donella Meadows. Her column appears each Friday in Tidepool. Craig Cramer mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming http://1000ways.baka.com Sustainable Farming Connection http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 1 01:26:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22012 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 01:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA01604 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:32:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA01564 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.102] (pa-ppp17.hevanet.com [204.119.60.102]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA17250; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 21:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908010432.VAA17250@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 21:34:27 -0700 Subject: FW: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1919 Forwarded for the interest of the list members. ---------- From: Amy To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils Date: Sat, Jul 31, 1999, 8:52 PM This from Richters HerbLetter By Carolyn Abraham TORONTO, July 16, [Toronto] Globe and Mail -- Researchers at the University of Guelph have applied for an international patent on lemon-scented geraniums, believing they are pollution-eating plants that could clean the environment and restore a toxic land patch to Garden of Eden. Their research has found that the familiar flowering plant has an uncanny ability to absorb metal and organic pollutants which could help to detoxify everything from abandoned gas station sites to old mining lands. They may also be of particular benefit to developing countries whose crop yields suffer because of naturally occurring high metal content in their soils. Plant biologist Praveen Saxena and his team are now hurrying to find the genes that endow the lemon-scented geranium with its rare ability to absorb pollutants so they might, through genetic engineering, enhance those traits. And although they have not yet discovered those genes, they have requested in the patent application field last year that their claim include any genetically modified form of the lemon-scented geranium that would be used to detoxify the environment. Patents have been issued on other plants, Dr. Saxena said. But the issue of laying an ownership claim over a natural life form remains a controversal area of biotechnology. This is partly because critics argue that patents often make new agricultural technology unaffordable to farmers who could benefit from it. Stephanie De Grandis, associate director of Guelph's business development office, explained that the patent would not be on the plant, but on the process of using the plant for cleaning up contaminated soil, called phytoremediation. "Anyone who went out to use these geraniums for phytoremediation would have to come and talk to us [if the patent is granted]," Dr. De Grandis said, adding that anyone who didn't could face legal action. After planting the scented geraniums in contaminated soil samples from an undisclosed site in Canada and conducting a similar trial at a contaminated Hamilton location, the researchers found that the plants cleaned up toxic soil and flourished in it. "With other methods to get rid of toxic metals in the soil, the soil is left clean, but it's useless," Dr. Saxena said. But by planting lemon-scented geraniums to clean the soil, the same land could later be used for farming, he added. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From dragon@islandnet.com Sun Aug 1 04:54:56 1999 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with SMTP id EAA24266 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 04:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [139.142.112.152] [139.142.112.152] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m11Aq54-0006eLC for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 23:18:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Jojoba/Patchouli From: "Beth Lischeron" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1920 Thanks to all who have written - and connected me with others off our list - regarding jojoba & patchouli oils. I've received some very interesting leads and I really appreciate everyone's willingness to give me a few minutes of their day to share knowledge and information. It has been a great example of how the 'net can work well! The case is certainly not closed - I have a few recommended suppliers, and some info concerning use and so on- if anyone has info ('scientific' or 'anecdotal' or 'personal' - please note the democracy-in-language here!) I would be delighted to hear any - and everything! Let me know if there is an interest in a compiled info sheet - I am keeping a file & will work away at it as I can. Thanks again all - you're a great bunch of people, and although I seldom have the time/energy to jump into the fray, I definitely appreciate the lively and informative Sanet discussions! Be well all and don't forget your sunscreen! Beth Lischeron ---------- >From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." >To: Beth Lischeron >Cc: sanet >Subject: Re: Jojoba/Patchouli >Date: Jul 27, 1999, 8:53 PM > > > On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Beth Lischeron wrote: > >> Does anyone have or know of: >> >> a) sources for pure jojoba oil? >> b) info on patchouli essential oil (or any other EE) for use in pest control >> +/or as personal insect repellent? > > Try Frontier Herbs (a cooperative seeling to many natural foods stores, > including Whole Foods). > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 1 05:39:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA24481 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 05:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA19647 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 04:44:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA19643 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 04:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id EAA03350 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 04:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [139.142.112.152] [139.142.112.152] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m11Aq54-0006eLC for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 00:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 23:18:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Jojoba/Patchouli From: "Beth Lischeron" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1921 Thanks to all who have written - and connected me with others off our list - regarding jojoba & patchouli oils. I've received some very interesting leads and I really appreciate everyone's willingness to give me a few minutes of their day to share knowledge and information. It has been a great example of how the 'net can work well! The case is certainly not closed - I have a few recommended suppliers, and some info concerning use and so on- if anyone has info ('scientific' or 'anecdotal' or 'personal' - please note the democracy-in-language here!) I would be delighted to hear any - and everything! Let me know if there is an interest in a compiled info sheet - I am keeping a file & will work away at it as I can. Thanks again all - you're a great bunch of people, and although I seldom have the time/energy to jump into the fray, I definitely appreciate the lively and informative Sanet discussions! Be well all and don't forget your sunscreen! Beth Lischeron ---------- >From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." >To: Beth Lischeron >Cc: sanet >Subject: Re: Jojoba/Patchouli >Date: Jul 27, 1999, 8:53 PM > > > On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Beth Lischeron wrote: > >> Does anyone have or know of: >> >> a) sources for pure jojoba oil? >> b) info on patchouli essential oil (or any other EE) for use in pest control >> +/or as personal insect repellent? > > Try Frontier Herbs (a cooperative seeling to many natural foods stores, > including Whole Foods). > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 1 09:46:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA25285 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA08167 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:00:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08131 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA26784; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 07:58:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-196.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.196) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026766; Sun Aug 1 07:58:19 1999 Message-ID: <001301bedb54$462f66c0$c4fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lon J. Rombough" , "SANET" , "AGRISYNERGY" Subject: Re: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:56:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1922 Interesting. Not allowing anyone to plant normal ordinary scented geraniums that I wouldn't approve of. Question after these geraniums do their job I don't supposed they can be thrown on the compost piles? :) Beth "Anyone who went out to use these geraniums for phytoremediation would >have to come and talk to us [if the patent is granted]," Dr. De Grandis >said, adding that anyone who didn't could face legal action. > > After planting the scented geraniums in contaminated soil samples from >an undisclosed site in Canada and conducting a similar trial at a >contaminated Hamilton location, the researchers found that the plants >cleaned up toxic soil and flourished in it. > > "With other methods to get rid of toxic metals in the soil, the soil >is left clean, but it's useless," Dr. Saxena said. But by planting >lemon-scented geraniums to clean the soil, the same land could later be >used for farming, he added. > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 1 13:18:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA26808 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 13:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA18620 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 11:13:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from PEAK.ORG (root@PEAK.ORG [198.68.22.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17361 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 11:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (midgard-43.PEAK.ORG [198.68.22.107]) by PEAK.ORG (8.8.5/8.6.7) with SMTP id IAA03322; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 08:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990801081224.007b5920@peak.org> X-Sender: draperj@peak.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 08:12:24 -0700 To: "Dan Hook" , "Lon J. Rombough" , "SANET" , "AGRISYNERGY" From: Jim Draper Subject: Re: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils Cc: wistyr@comp.uark.edu, rmdraper@laplaza.taos.nm.us, jsdrape@ibm.net, faym@peak.org In-Reply-To: <001301bedb54$462f66c0$c4fb6ed1@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1923 On reading about the use of specially-scented geraniums for ridding soil of contamination, my reaction was about like that of Dan Hook: what happens to the contamination? Where do you put the now-contaminated geranium plant residue (including roots)? It's something like the guy who excavated a hole for putting a swimming pool in his yard and then wondered what in hell he was going to do with the dirt --- dig another hole to put it in, and then on and on and on? At 08:56 AM 7/31/99 -0400, Dan Hook wrote: >Interesting. Not allowing anyone to plant normal ordinary scented geraniums >that I wouldn't approve of. Question after these geraniums do their job I >don't supposed they can be thrown on the compost piles? :) Beth > > "Anyone who went out to use these geraniums for phytoremediation would >>have to come and talk to us [if the patent is granted]," Dr. De Grandis >>said, adding that anyone who didn't could face legal action. >> >> After planting the scented geraniums in contaminated soil samples from >>an undisclosed site in Canada and conducting a similar trial at a >>contaminated Hamilton location, the researchers found that the plants >>cleaned up toxic soil and flourished in it. >> >> "With other methods to get rid of toxic metals in the soil, the soil >>is left clean, but it's useless," Dr. Saxena said. But by planting >>lemon-scented geraniums to clean the soil, the same land could later be >>used for farming, he added. >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From brateaver@earthlink.net Sun Aug 1 21:25:06 1999 Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02440 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 21:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0375.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.120]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22978; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A4D060.32E4D0E3@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 15:55:28 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Beth Lischeron CC: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , sanet Subject: Re: Jojoba/Patchouli References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1924 I have replied to her, but did not offer to go thru the mass of stuff on jojoba I have, but I want to tell you all that I distinctly recall, this oil is NOT for human tissue, tho excellent for machines. There is a very famous cancer place here--where people come from all over the world to get a cancer cure by eating raw foods. In their little store, the administrator has put jojoba oil in quart bottles, for sale, for cosmetic purposes. I did mention to someone there that this is not right to do, and got a glare and demand for proof. I just ignored it. I figure if people are so stupid as to believe all they hear there, let them. My missionary spirit must be dying out. I can't face going thru all that lit again. I am tired. Beth Lischeron wrote: > Thanks to all who have written - and connected me with others off our list - > regarding jojoba & patchouli oils. I've received some very interesting leads > and I really appreciate everyone's willingness to give me a few minutes of > their day to share knowledge and information. > > It has been a great example of how the 'net can work well! > > The case is certainly not closed - I have a few recommended suppliers, and > some info concerning use and so on- if anyone has info ('scientific' or > 'anecdotal' or 'personal' - please note the democracy-in-language here!) I > would be delighted to hear any - and everything! Let me know if there is an > interest in a compiled info sheet - I am keeping a file & will work away at > it as I can. > > Thanks again all - you're a great bunch of people, and although I seldom > have the time/energy to jump into the fray, I definitely appreciate the > lively and informative Sanet discussions! > > Be well all and don't forget your sunscreen! > > Beth Lischeron > > ---------- > >From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." > >To: Beth Lischeron > >Cc: sanet > >Subject: Re: Jojoba/Patchouli > >Date: Jul 27, 1999, 8:53 PM > > > > > > > On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Beth Lischeron wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have or know of: > >> > >> a) sources for pure jojoba oil? > >> b) info on patchouli essential oil (or any other EE) for use in pest control > >> +/or as personal insect repellent? > > > > Try Frontier Herbs (a cooperative seeling to many natural foods stores, > > including Whole Foods). > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 1 22:03:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA02899 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA13357 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 21:15:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA13337 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 21:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0375.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.120]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23044; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A4D2B9.C78D8FE1@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 16:05:29 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Craig Cramer CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture References: <4.1.19990731200147.00a26a60@mail.clarityconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1925 This woman writes well, and tells the truth. I know that, even if there were plenty of food sent to starving Africans, etc., those starving people would not get it. Somehow the food would not get there or get there and rot on the docks, or be grabbed by some greedy person who would keep it until it rotted because the hungry poor could not afford it. I grew up in one of those primitive types of country, and have seen people starving, so I know. If I had a way to do it, I would go back there and have people with food send it to me and battle it out on the docks until I could get it to the hungry. I remember, when anyone of the other missionaries got packages, they liked to have my father be the one to get the packages out of Customs, because he knew the man there and how to talk to him. Otherwise the Customs man would charge a high price, just off the top of his head, as he was in total control. As it is, If I did not have my precious, valuable, deeply beloved son here, I would go right now--sell the house and use the money to go, and spend the rest of my days there teaching women to read. They could then read the Truth and know there was hope for living forever in Eden. Does anyone know of a grant method to get money for a trip to Madagascar? Yeeeahhh. ======================== Craig Cramer wrote: > I saw this on another list today, and thought it worth passing along. > > There is an online version and archives of other Global Citizen columns by > Donella at: > > http://www.tidepool.org/gcarchive.html > > Craig > > Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture > By Donella Meadows > > JULY 30, 1999 > > "I guess you must be in favor of pesticides," concluded a Monsanto > public relations guy, after I > objected to his company's genetically engineered potato. > > "I guess it's OK with you if people starve," said a botanist I deeply > respect, with whom I have > carried out a fervent argument about genetic engineering. > > Accusations like these astonish me. I'm an organic farmer; I'm not in > favor of pesticides. I've spent > decades working to end hunger; it is not OK with me that anyone > starves. I believe that my two > accusers and I are working toward exactly the same goal -- feeding > everyone without wrecking the > environment. We would all label that goal "sustainable agriculture." > But we must be making radically > different assumptions about what that goal looks like and how to get > there from here. > > The idea that if I oppose genetic engineering, I must favor > pesticides, arises from an assumption that > those are the only two choices. If they were, I would probably agree > that it's better to fool with > genomes than to spray poisons over the countryside. But I see other > choices. Plant many kinds of > crops and rotate them, instead of one or two crops year after year, > which make a perfect breeding > ground for pests. Build up ecosystems above ground and in the soil so > natural enemies rise and fall > with the pests, searching and destroying with a specificity and > safety and elegance that neither > chemicals nor engineering can match. > > These are pest control methods based not on chemistry or genetics, > but on ecology. They work. I > know. I use them. I know dozens of organic farmers who use them. > Small scale and large. > Northeast, South, Midwest, West. Apples, lettuce, potatoes, > strawberries, broccoli, rice, soybeans, > wheat, corn. > > The claim that we need genetic engineering to feed the hungry must be > based on two assumptions: > first that more food will actually go to hungry people, second that > genetic engineering is the only way > to raise more food. I assume, to the contrary, that more food will > not help those who can't afford to > buy or grow it, especially if it comes from expensive, patented, > designer seed. > > Furthermore, more food is not needed. We already grow enough to > nourish everyone. If just > one-third of the grain fed to animals went to humans instead, we > would not have 24,000 deaths per > day due to hunger. Or if 40 percent post-harvest loss rates in poor > countries were reduced. Or if we > shared the embarrassing crop surpluses of North America and Europe. > Or if we created an > economy where everyone had money to buy food or land to grow it -- > which would solve a lot of > other problems too. > > Where, when or if more food is needed, there are ways to produce it > that don't require biotech or > chemicals. Folks with an industrial ag mindset assume that organic > agriculture would cut yields. Not > only is there no evidence for that assumption, there are numerous > studies to the contrary. One of the > latest appeared in Nature last year; its summary opens like this: "In > comparison with conventional, > high-intensity agricultural methods, 'organic' alternatives can > improve soil fertility and have fewer > detrimental effects on the environment. > > These alternatives can also produce equivalent crop yields to > conventional methods." > > Imagine what yields could be if even one-tenth as much research > effort were put into organic farming > as has been put into chemicals or genetics. > > When I show this evidence to proponents of high-tech farming, when I > offer to take them to see > organic farms, when I point out that hunger could be ended by sharing > food or technologies that raise > output without poisoning the\ earth or invading the genome, I don't > think my argument even reaches > their auditory nerves, much less their brains. That kind of extreme > failure even to hear an argument, > much less process it, alerts me that this is not a rational > discussion. It is a worldview difference, a > paradigm gap, a disagreement about morals and values and identities > and fundamental assumptions > about the way the world works. > > I assume the world works by the laws of ecology and economics and > human nature. > > Ecology says that monocultures breed pests; that chemicals upset soil > ecosystems and kill off natural > predators; that crops with pesticide in every cell will induce pest > resistance; that animals and plants > should be grown in close proximity so manure can go back to the soil; > and that we haven't the > slightest idea what the ecological or evolutionary consequences of > genetic engineering will be. > > Economics says you can never have a sustainable market if you produce > something consumers fear > and you hide critical information about how it was produced and what > it contains. Because industrial > agriculture has violated that law and lost the trust of consumers, > the market for organic produce is > growing in American and Europe by 20-30 percent per year, even with a > price premium; it now > totals over $9 billion. > > Human nature says the more actual producers can own and shape and > control land and inputs and > seeds and knowledge, the more inventive, adaptive, and equitable > agriculture will be. > > Acceptance of those laws shapes my vision of sustainable agriculture. > I picture healthy ecosystems > and healthy human beings working together in thriving, close-knit > communities. Farms are small, > owner-operated, with what Wes Jackson calls a "high eyes-to-acres > ratio," which means they are > well managed and high-yielding. Farmers make more use of knowledge > and people than of > chemicals and seeds they can't breed for themselves. Animals are > raised on all farms; there are good > reasons why ecosystems don't concentrate all the plants in one place > and all the animals in another. > > Food is grown everywhere, in cities, in suburbs. The distance from > producer to consumer is short, > there are fewer supermarkets, more farmers markets, less packaging, > more freshness. The principle > of one of my favorite organic farmers permeates the system: 'I'm not > growing food, I'm growing > health." > > To those who do not believe such a vision is possible, I can only > say, it exists, it's alive and well and > growing, it's even more profitable than the industrial vision, the > food tastes better, the work is more > pleasurable. I live in this vision. I have friends all over the world > who live in it. > > Come see. > > -30- > > Donella H. Meadows is an adjunct professor of environmental > studies at > Dartmouth College. More about Donella Meadows. Her column > appears > each Friday in Tidepool. > > Craig Cramer > mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com > > 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming > http://1000ways.baka.com > > Sustainable Farming Connection > http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 1 23:31:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA04213 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 23:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA16992 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:20:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [216.12.0.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA16976 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23937 invoked from network); 2 Aug 1999 02:14:44 -0000 Received: from c2s2m37.cfw.com (HELO cfw.com) (216.12.51.188) by milo.cfw.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 1999 02:14:44 -0000 Message-ID: <37A50036.87A58069@cfw.com> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 22:19:34 -0400 From: Jeff Ishee X-Sender: "Jeff Ishee" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Avery vs. Salatin/Installment #1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1926 It was raucous, it was divisive. It was gentlemanly, it was thought provoking. And, it was probably the liveliest conversation about sustainable agriculture you'd ever want to witness without having boxing gloves on. The Dennis Avery/Joel Salatin debate over modern agricultural policies and practices took place on Thursday, July 28 in a live radio broadcast for two full hours. It was my honor to act as host and moderator. The exclusive transcript below is word-for-word, and offers the first 20 minutes of an extended debate which addressed everything from the use of municipal sludge on farm crops to genetic engineering, from irradiation of foods to pastured poultry vs confinement production, etc. The phone lines lit up with callers from the very beginning, and callers added a superb dimension to the discussion, bringing up world agricultural trade issues, cancer rates related to pesticide use, and numerous other issues concerning both high-yield and sustainable agriculture. As promised, the complete transcripts (over 20 pages) are available at my costs. The goal is not to make a profit here, but just to cover the cost of transcribing, printing, and mailing to you each and every word from a two hour debate. Please don't consider this as a solicitation, or "spam." If you would like a complete transcript, from beginning to end of the Avery/Salatin debate, just mail a check for $5.00 to the address listed below. I hope that each of you enjoys the thought provoking debate, a portion of which follows. Sincerely, Jeff Ishee Farm Director, WSVA Radio P.O. box 752 Harrisonburg, VA 22801 ********************* Avery vs. Salatin Transcripts WSVA Valley Farm Forum July 28, 1999 Good morning again neighbors, I'd like to welcome you to the Valley Farm Forum, a monthly program where we invite our guests in the studio to discuss the agricultural issues of the day . . . at length . . . with your participation. My name is Jeff Ishee, and joining us in the studio today are Mr. Dennis Avery and Mr. Joel Salatin, two of the most widely-known and, in my opinion, respected agricultural analysts in North America. The both travel extensively throughout the year addressing the concerns of farmers and the industry of agriculture, but as you will soon bear witness, they are as diametrically opposed in their viewpoints as anyone can possibly be when it comes to modern agricultural practices and policies. Dennis Avery is Director of the Center for Global Food Issues, a project of the Hudson Institute, and is a former senior agricultural analyst to the U.S. State Department. He is author of the 1995 book entitled "Saving the Planet With Pesticides and Plastics: The Environmental Triumph of High-Yield Farming." Dennis Avery resides with his family at their farm in the tiny community of Swoope, Virginia. Joel Salatin is an active farmer, producing and marketing poultry, beef, pork and other farm products directly from his farm to a customer base of four hundred families and twenty white tablecloth restaurants. He was one of the founders of an organization called the Virginia Association for Biological Farming, and has written three books, the most recent entitled "You Can Farm: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Start and Succeed in a Farming Enterprise." Joel resides with his family at their farm in, yes, the tiny community of Swoope, Virginia. Gentlemen, good morning to both of you. I, like many of our listeners, have been waiting for this program for quite some time. It's been my goal to get the two of you together in the studios of WSVA since I began this position a few years ago. In my opinion, we have two of the keenest minds in agriculture in the studio with us today, and both live within a few miles of each other. The Shenandoah Valley is blessed in more ways than one. Well, there are numerous ways that we could begin today's discussion, but I think I'll start off by simply repeating a story that the Associated Press ran one week ago today. Perhaps this will demonstrate to our listeners some of the basic beliefs and concerns of Dennis and Joel when it comes to agricultural policy. Then later in the program, we'll get to some more decisive (and probably divisive) issues in farming today. But first, this story as reported by the Associated Press on July 23rd. "A transatlantic battle over hormone-treated beef escalated on Tuesday with US officials blasting comments by the French that America has (quote)"the worst food in the world." A US plan to slap sanctions on European farm exports in a battle over hormone-treated beef drew howls of pain from European pork producers on Tuesday, and calls from French farmers for a boycott of American farm products. The French government strongly criticized the US move, but the European Union refused to give up hope of a negotiated solution to avert the US threat of punitive 100 percent duties on EU farm exports. French Agriculture Minister Jean Glavany said (quoting here) "the United States is the country that has the worst food in the world." American Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman said the "inflammatory nature" of the remarks about US food by his French counterpart could only worsen the dispute. Glickman said the French went too far when they criticized the safety and quality of U.S. farm products. Now, while Dennis Avery and Joel Salatin are pondering their reaction to this story, I'd like to invite you, our listeners, to feel free to join the conversation at any point by calling us at 433-9782, or you can call us toll-free from anywhere in Virginia or West Virginia at 1-800-388-9782. If you agree, or disagree, with any of the comments our guests have made, we invite you join in the discussion and tell us what you think. Those numbers again, 433-9782, or toll free 1-800-388-9782. Well let's get started with today's Valley Farm Forum. Gentlemen, your comments on this story. Dennis, we'll start with you. Dennis Avery: The hormone treated beef controversy is a very good place to start. About a dozen years ago, Europe announced that it would not use, and would not accept, beef from animals that had been treated with hormones. It was basically to prevent a worsening of their meat surplus, and the hormones do allow farmers to produce meatier carcasses more quickly and at somewhat less cost. The Europeans have now had twelve years, actually they had time before that, but they've had twelve years since the ban to find a danger in those hormones to point to as a reason for their erecting the trade barriers, and they haven't been able to find one. Recently the Codex Aliment arius in Rome, which is the referee for the World Trade Organization, said "Since you haven't given us any proof of danger, you're going to have to lift the trade barrier." All of this rhetoric about Americans having bad food is a reaction to Europe having it's feet held to the fire on scientific proof of danger. Either put up or shut up, and they can't put up. If the beef were dangerous, the Europeans would be dying like flies. When I was at the State Department, I remember a report from Belgium that about 40% of the beef carcasses slaughtered in that country that year still had the residues of the hormones in them. The European farmers are almost universally using the hormones, but instead of buying them from a reputable pharmaceutical firm, they buy them from the black market. People have been shot to death in minor wars over these illegal hormones. Host Jeff Ishee: Joel, your response to this story? Joel Salatin:I guess that I would suggest, and I would like to ask Dennis "Is science objective?" Avery: Science is as objective as we get, Joel, and obviously science is complicated and anytime you see one report on something, you'd better wait for what the researchers call the "consensus," but on meat hormones, we've had twenty years to develop, first a consensus, and then a regulatory posture, and then the results of it, which are a continuing decline in our cancer rates, and no indication of any problems with the hormone treated beef. Salatin: There have plenty of reports coming out of especially Central America showing the hormones in meats that have caused early puberty in children and things like that . . . Avery: There have been accusations of that Joel . . . Salatin: But you see, the question is "Is science objective?" Are there any limitations to science? Avery: Well, that is a very broad question. I don't think I am willing to proceed in a world where we regulate things on the basis of hysteria and rumor rather than trying to figure out reality. Basically, science is just talking about analyzing reality. Salatin: But what is reality? Avery: Reality might be deformed frogs in Minnesota that were blamed on pesticides until the researchers proved that there were tiny parasites that were attacking the tadpoles, and the parasites prevented the legs of the frogs from growing normally. That's one aspect of science versus hysteria. We had school kids all over America communicating on the internet about the number of deformed frogs that they had found, and speculating about which chemical caused it. Then it turned out that we had a natural cause. Salatin: You know, we can get into "I could give you five details. You could give me five details." We can get bogged down in detail. But I think that the important thing is to understand that our paradigm, our frame of reference, our world view dictates how we approach science. Science has two primary limitations: One is that it has to be observable, and the other is that it has to be duplicatable. Those are the, by definition, those are the two limitations of science. As you said, they are as real as we can get. We have to see it, we have to duplicate it. And so for example, when Chernobyl blew, when the nuclear reactor blew up a few years ago, and the people, the bureaucrats in Moscow were talking over the telephone with the fellows in the control room, they asked them "If you've had a meltdown, is there any graphite?" Well, there were graphite chunks the size of wheelbarrows lying around the yard at Chernobyl, and the scientists said "No. No. There is no graphite on the lawn," because they so believed in the foolproof design of the nuclear reactor, that they absolutely could not see the graphite. Avery: I have to warn you, and I worked in the State Department for almost ten years. I had very high security clearances. I was reading Russian radio traffic the day after it occurred. These people . . . this was not a belief in science. This was a Russian system that lied to each other endemically on a daily basis . . . Salatin: And you think that Monsanto, Ceiba-Geigy, and DuPont never lied to each other, and that the tobacco industry never lies to us? Avery: I think we have a lot more checks and balances than we used to. Salatin: I think you are very mistaken. Avery: If you don't think that we have more checks and balances in our society than Stalin had in his, I would suggest you reread your textbook. Salatin: I think humans are basically the same, and we all operate under certain paradigms. Our paradigms define what the questions we will ask in a scientific experiment. I could give you, I could go for two hours, and give you easily the skewed and flawed questions that research is asked as parameters of research projects to, not come to the answer, but come to the answer that best suits the funding of the research, of the researching donor or grantor. Avery: Well maybe it's useful, Joel, to look at some of the broader outcomes. We've added roughly twenty years to our life spans in the pesticide era. Our kids IQ scores keep going up, the kids keep getting bigger, stronger, faster, can throw the ball farther, kick the soccer ball past the goalie with more power. It's partly a result of better nutrition, and the better nutrition is partly the result of high-yield farming. And not only are we giving the people of the world about a third more calories than they used to get per person, but we're giving them far more of the high quality protein and micro-nutrients like calcium and iron . . . Host Jeff Ishee: High-yield agriculture is exactly the topic that I'd like to get to next, but at the moment we're going to take a commercial break. You are listening to the Valley Farm Forum in Harrisonburg, Virginia on News Radio 550, WSVA. (commercial break) Host Jeff Ishee: Dennis, I know that you are an avid supporter of high-yield agriculture and it's environmental benefits. Please explain to our audience what high-yield agriculture is, and just how does it benefit our environment? Avery: The Soil and Water Conservation Society of America says that modern farming with hybrid seeds, irrigation, chemical fertilizer, integrated pest management with pesticides, and conservation tillage, which also needs herbicides to help prevent soil erosion, they say this is the most sustainable farming in history. We have used it to basically triple the yields on the world's best farmland. Because of that, we have saved fifteen million square miles of wildlife habitat from being plowed down to get today's food supply. We are farming 37% of the earth's land area, but that's about what we were farming at the end of World War II when we had half as many people eating far less well. So, as we look forward to a peak world population of eight and a half billion affluent, non-vegetarians, we'll demand three times as much farm output. My concern is that we get the three fold increase in farm output by tripling the yields on the best farmland, maybe quadrupling the yields on American farmland, so that we don't have to plow down wildlife and wild species in order to eat. Host Jeff Ishee: I'd like to ask you about tripling and perhaps quadrupling the output in modern American agriculture, but I want to get to our callers, and at this point we've got several folks who would like to join the conversation, so, let's go to the phones. Good Morning and welcome to the Valley Farm Forum. You are on the air. Caller: I am interested in your discussion. I don't have a strong opinion about feeding hormones to animals. Maybe I should have, but I don't. But I do have strong opinions about the use of irradiation in foods. I'm not against it. I'm very much for it. How come the government doesn't force business to irradiate foods that are potentially harmful to us because of e-coli, salmonella, and maybe other viruses? Avery: I, also, am in favor of irradiation. I am particularly in favor of it for organic food that is grown when it is grown with the assistance of manure, because that involves a serious bacterial risk, and the irradiation would eliminate that. To me, irradiation is the one big, obvious thing we can do to make what is already the safest food supply in world history significantly safer. But, so far, the public doesn't want it, and we live in a democracy. I think until the public gets really scared of something, and we got pasteurization in milk because we were really scared of tuberculosis in the cows, until we get scared enough, in my view, of e-coli, the opponents of irradiation will continue to win. Caller: Let me take you back about 30 years, when our government decided that cyclamates had to be taken out of soft drinks. They said that if you drink eight hundred cans of soda a day, you might get cancer. They did tests on rats and found out that it did cause cancer, but you'd have to drink eight hundred cans a day. Now, if the government can force the public to go without cyclamates and go to something else, why couldn't they demand . . . uh, I don't believe that there would be a great backlash against irradiation. I know some people don't want to eat meats anyway, so they are very vocal. But, if that's the only choice you had, to eat irradiated meat, especially hamburger. Now it is more dangerous than steak, I believe, isn't that right? Avery: You are absolutely correct. I love rare hamburgers, and I don't dare eat them anymore . . . Caller: I don't either. Avery: I would offer irradiated meat, and this is now possible, the Department of Agriculture has just finalized the regulations for irradiating meat, but I'd offer it as a premium product. Salatin: I'd like to offer the fact that there are plenty of people, in the scientific community, who talk about formaldehyde, and the carcinogenic qualities, the nuclear type of qualities, that are caused by the irradiation of food, and I would rather, instead of eating sterilized poop, I'd rather get the poop out of it. Get the salmonella out, the e-coli out. Cornell University just told us that if we would quit feeding grain to cattle, there is no e-coli in the gut. I would rather see us go to systems where there is no manure in it, where it is clean to begin with, rather than irradiating so that we can all eat, at least, irradiated manure. I'd rather not eat sterile manure myself. Avery: Joel, Joel, Joel. Let's keep it a little bit more honest here. We're not talking about irradiated manure. We're talking about meat which is sometimes contaminated with bacteria of various kinds. And irradiation kills them all. It kills the salmonella, it kills the e-coli, it kills virtually all of the dangerous bacteria which we've never in history been able to totally eliminate. Salatin: And we've never had the strains that we have today because of the mutated, resistant varieties done by centralized agriculture. That's right out of the Government Accounting Office report. You know, I can read it to you right out of here. But the whole reason that we've got so much tainted food now, is because of the overcrowding and the centralization of the American food system. That's right out of the Government Accounting Office. Avery: Well, the Government Accounting Office has accountants and lawyers. It doesn't have scientists. Salatin: Oh! So now we're back to science once again. See, whenever science is on your side, you say science is objective. Whenever science is on my side, you say "Oh. Well those guys aren't real scientists. They're out here make believe and in a fantasy world." Look. Let's cut it to the quick. All scientists are operating under the limitations of their own paradigm. Period. Avery: They're all trying to find out the reality . . . Salatin: No. They are not trying to find out the reality, the truth. Do you think the tobacco companies are trying to find out the reality of whether tobacco is hurting us or not? Do you think Monsanto wants to find out if genetically modified organisms are harmful or not? Do they really want to find out, when they've already invested a billion dollars in Mycogen and in the research to find out if it's any good? -end of first portion- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 01:02:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA05005 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 01:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA20159 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 00:18:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA20119 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 00:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.177]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990802041743.ZDRZ10212@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 04:17:43 +0000 Message-ID: <37A51BB6.E4634DC3@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 23:16:55 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-mg Subject: Research links breast cancer, beef hormones Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1927 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:36:56 -0700 From: Andrew Gach Posted to: Health and Environment Resource Center ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Research links breast cancer, beef hormones By Dennis Bueckert / The Canadian Press Ottawa - Consumption of hormone-treated beef may be causing girls to reach puberty earlier than they used to and making them more susceptible to breast cancer, say researchers attending a world conference on breast cancer. It is "very likely" that hormone residues in North American beef is a factor in the early onset of puberty among girls in recent decades, said Carlos Sonnenschein of the Tufts University School of Medicine at Boston. "There is no other reason to explain it," Sonnenschein said in an interview Friday. Pediatricians say the onset of menstruation has steadily decreased in recent decades. The average age for a first period is now 12, up from age 14 in 1900. Early onset of puberty with its raging hormones translates into higher risk of breast cancer, said Sonnenschein. "The length and amount of exposure to estrogens (a class of hormones) is one of the most significant risk factors in breast carcinogenesis. "Unless you are exposed to estrogens you don't get breast cancer. The longer the exposure is, the higher the incidence. Therefore if you decrease the age of menarche (first menstruation) . . . you are at higher risk." Hormones are used by cattle farmers in Canada and the United States to increase the weight of cattle prior to slaughter. They are currently the focus of a major trade dispute between North American and the European Union. Annie Sasco, of the International Agency for Research on Cancer at Lyons, France, said more study is needed but it makes sense that hormone-treated beef could affect the onset of puberty. "Any exposure to a high level of hormones is associated with earlier onset of puberty. It needs to be studied more but it makes sense." She said the risk of breast cancer associated with hormone residues in meat is not proven, and is probably small. "We all have estrogens and we need estrogens," she told the mainly female audience. "They are needed for life, for being what we are. We cannot say, 'Ban estrogens.' "We all have to try, through our diet and physical exercise, to keep our levels down. But there is a need to keep things in perspective . . . without getting into a complete panic." Even if the risk is small, she said it would be prudent to stop the use of hormones in the cattle industry there's no offsetting health benefit for consumers. The European Union has banned the use of hormones for fear they pose a health risk, and has banned imports of hormone-treated Canadian and U.S. meat. The two North American countries have taken the dispute to the World Trade Organization and have won the right to retaliate by placing tariffs on European goods. Canada announced retaliatory tariffs on a range of goods this week. The federal government maintains the hormones are safe, despite strong misgivings on the part of its own scientists at the Health Protection Branch. Four scientists with concerns have been placed under orders not to discuss the issue in public. The incidence of breast cancer has been rising steadily, most quickly in rich countries. In 1997, around the world, close to 400,000 women died of the disease. The number of new cases reported annually approached 900,000 in 1997, up from 572,000 in 1980. ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 02:04:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA05432 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 02:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA20261 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 01:23:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA20116 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 01:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.220] (dial220.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.220]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA13645; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 23:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 23:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Jeff Ishee From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Re: Avery vs. Salatin/Installment #1 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1928 Dear Jeff, To help you cut down your costs, can you email the transcript? I really don't want to use up those 20 printed pages and postage. Or, better yet, post it on a web site and you won't have any costs! Thanks for offering the debate. Nathan Boone Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 02:42:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA05765 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 02:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA08820 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 02:01:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA08743 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 02:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.220] (dial233.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.233]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA18409 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 00:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 00:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Dennis Avery and the Soil and Water Conservation Society of America Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1929 Dear sanet, I thought Dennis Avery's statement about the The Soil and Water Conservation Society of America was worth looking into. Here's what Dennis said: "The Soil and Water Conservation Society of America says that modern farming with hybrid seeds, irrigation, chemical fertilizer, integrated pest management with pesticides, and conservation tillage, which also needs herbicides to help prevent soil erosion, they say this is the most sustainable farming in history." Here's what the Soil and Water Conservation Society of America web site says: http://www.swcs.org/POLICY/policies.htm Sustainable Agriculture A productive, profitable agriculture cannot continue to exist if it does not sustain the soil, water, air, and biological systems in a productive state. Numerous civilizations in the past have failed because the soil and water resources were damaged beyond the point of productive use. However, these civilizations did not have access to our knowledge of agronomic and ecological systems. This knowledge points out that we cannot continue to rely on nonrenewable resource inputs including fossil fuels, pesticides, and fertilizers that mask yield-depressing effects of soil degradation, mine the soil resource, and degrade the surrounding ecosystem. Only in the very recent past, around 1940, did the use of fertilizers and pesticides begin to dominate farming in industrialized nations, and particularly in North America. These technologies, when applied to crops bred to take advantage of the greater inputs, markedly increased yields. It is not likely that North American agriculture will ever again see such a large magnitude gain in yield from technological advances, despite continued scientific developments in areas such as plant and animal genetics. However, these modern farming techniques have also had unintended consequences. Soil erosion increased, fragile lands were brought into production, water quality deteriorated, biological diversity was lessened, and surpluses accumulated. Nathan Boone To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 06:25:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA07447 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 06:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA23763 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 04:23:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id EAA23741 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 04:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [139.142.112.124] [139.142.112.124] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m11BD5F-0006dOC for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 01:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 23:06:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils From: "Beth Lischeron" To: Bargyla Rateaver , "Lon J. Rombough" CC: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1930 I suppose the next step is patenting clover because it 'remediates nitrogen poor soil', water because it 'remediates non-turgid plant cells', cats because they 'remediate mice-infested barns', slugs because they 'remediate hunger driven skunks', air because it remediates oxygen-depleted lungs' ... No doubt somebody somewhere is working on a gene splice to "enhance those traits" If it's good for the GDP, it must be good for us all. Up to my ears in the Frankenstein File, lemon-scented geraniums and well-aged horse manure, Beth : > ---------- >From: Bargyla Rateaver >To: "Lon J. Rombough" >Cc: SANET , AGRISYNERGY >Subject: Re: FW: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils >Date: Aug 1, 1999, 3:41 PM > > Should think one could always say:"I did not plant those flowers for THAT > reason." > ====================== > > Lon J. Rombough wrote: > >> Forwarded for the interest of the list members. >> ---------- >> From: Amy >> To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU >> Subject: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils >> Date: Sat, Jul 31, 1999, 8:52 PM >> >> This from Richters HerbLetter >> By Carolyn Abraham >> >> TORONTO, July 16, [Toronto] Globe and Mail -- Researchers at the >> University of Guelph have applied for an international patent on >> lemon-scented geraniums, believing they are pollution-eating plants that >> could clean the environment and restore a toxic land patch to Garden of >> Eden. >> >> Their research has found that the familiar flowering plant has an >> uncanny ability to absorb metal and organic pollutants which could help to >> detoxify everything from abandoned gas station sites to old mining lands. >> >> They may also be of particular benefit to developing countries whose >> crop yields suffer because of naturally occurring high metal content in >> their soils. >> >> Plant biologist Praveen Saxena and his team are now hurrying to find >> the genes that endow the lemon-scented geranium with its rare ability to >> absorb pollutants so they might, through genetic engineering, enhance >> those traits. >> >> And although they have not yet discovered those genes, they have >> requested in the patent application field last year that their claim >> include any genetically modified form of the lemon-scented geranium that >> would be used to detoxify the environment. >> >> Patents have been issued on other plants, Dr. Saxena said. But the >> issue of laying an ownership claim over a natural life form remains a >> controversal area of biotechnology. This is partly because critics argue >> that patents often make new agricultural technology unaffordable to >> farmers who could benefit from it. >> >> Stephanie De Grandis, associate director of Guelph's business >> development office, explained that the patent would not be on the plant, >> but on the process of using the plant for cleaning up contaminated soil, >> called phytoremediation. >> >> "Anyone who went out to use these geraniums for phytoremediation would >> have to come and talk to us [if the patent is granted]," Dr. De Grandis >> said, adding that anyone who didn't could face legal action. >> >> After planting the scented geraniums in contaminated soil samples from >> an undisclosed site in Canada and conducting a similar trial at a >> contaminated Hamilton location, the researchers found that the plants >> cleaned up toxic soil and flourished in it. >> >> "With other methods to get rid of toxic metals in the soil, the soil >> is left clean, but it's useless," Dr. Saxena said. But by planting >> lemon-scented geraniums to clean the soil, the same land could later be >> used for farming, he added. >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 06:44:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA07520 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 06:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA25334 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 05:46:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from leopard.info.bw (IDENT:root@leopard.info.bw [168.167.209.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25137 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 05:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar (ppp203.info.bw [168.167.210.103] (may be forged)) by leopard.info.bw (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04541 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:46:59 +0200 Message-Id: <199908020946.LAA04541@leopard.info.bw> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Andrea Rother" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:57:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: GMO's in Africa Debate Reply-to: ar@info.bw X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1931 Dear SANET List, Here is the second article to review about GMO's in Africa. The debate continues.... Regards, Andrea Rother Moderator, Pesticides-L Dept. of Community Health University of Cape Town South Africa e-mail: andrea@anat.uct.ac.za ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 21:13:05 +0300 Reply-to: Afrik-IPM Discussion List From: "Hans R. Herren" Subject: Re: Why Africa Needs Biotech? To: AFRIK-IPM@LISTSERV.VT.EDU Anyone who wishes to get a full copy of this paper should e-mail me. It will add another perspective to the debate on the need for GMO's in developing countries at this time, and what needs to be done until then... Hans R. Herren Potentials and threats of the Genetic Engineering Technology: Quest for an African Strategy at the Dawn of a New Millennium Hans R. Herren Director General, The International Centre of Insect Physiology and Ecology(ICIPE), P.O. Box 30772, Nairobi, Kenya Background Do we need genetically engineered crops to feed the world? This question is at the centre of several major controversies, ranging from intellectual property rights to biodiversity conservation via social and economic considerations. The major question really lies in what choices are science, industry and governments proposing to the farmers and the consumers? In Africa's special case, what solutions to food security makes sense in this particular socio-economic and environmental setting? The scepter of a new fiasco lies very near, as the farmers are likely to be simply weaned from pesticides to be force fed biotech seeds, in other words, taken off one treadmill and set on a new one! According to a Monsanto-initiated publicity campaign, which seeks endorsement from African heads of state, the solutions to the elusive developing world food security problem are to be found in genetically engineered food crops. It claims the following: "Biotechnology is one of tomorrow's tools in our hands today. Slowing its acceptance is a luxury our hungry world cannot afford". What is really meant is that these biotechnology products-- in this case seeds from genetically modified crops-- will cater for the needs of an increased global population. The public sector has also joined the bandwagon, which reinforces my personal concern about the dangers of such a limited approach to food security issues. The trend towards a quasi-monopolization of funding in agricultural development into a narrow set of technologies is dangerous and irresponsible. Also, too many hopes and expectations are being entrusted in these technologies, to the detriment of more conventional and proven technologies and approaches that have been very successful. It is only too obvious to concerned scientists, farmers and citizens alike that we are about to repeat, step by step, the mistakes of the insecticide era, even before it is behind us. I would even argue that these new miracle technologies are mostly not necessary, let alone desirable, to solve the world's food security problem. I am not denying that in some instances they may be of use in increasing the qualities of food crop varieties, but this aspect has relevance only once abundance has been achieved. Africa needs a homegrown food security research, capacity and institution building and implementation strategy that is tuned to its economic and social constraints and is in harmony with its diverse environment. ___________________________________________________________ Footnote: Definitions: 'Biotechnology' relates to the use of tissue culture for the rapid multiplication of improved varieties, through cell culture or the like. It also includes the use of naturally occurring microorganisms such as Bt(Bacillus thuringiensis), viruses, endophytes and others which may have been selected for their activity against certain plant pests and diseases, but which have not been genetically modified. Biotechnology may also include vaccines against parasites or vectors of animal and human diseases, diagnostic tests and gene marking tools for classical breeding. 'Genetic engineering' refers to the creation of new plant types or transgenic varieties (tgvs) through genetic manipulation of the organism's gene pool by introducing non-species-specific genes, often from other taxa/phyla. >I think there is little doubt that bio-technology tools (e.g. tissue >culture, ELISA, etc.) can be a great benefit to farmers, farm workers, and >corporations in Africa. The tools of biotech are necessary to quickly get >into the field. I have seen orchid tissue culture in back-yard production >with sterilised Coke-Cola bottles in Philippines with farmers. > >However, I think transgenic crops are not a tool, and it is useful to >differentiate "biotech" from "GMOs". They are a product of biotechnology >that have yet to be well evaluated. New findings such as pollen toxicity to >migratory lepidopteran species, the slow breakdown of B.t. in the soil from >transgenic crops, or the outcrossing of Round-Ready crops with wild species >show that ecological impacts have not been thoroughly studied. New studies >are not conclusive that new GMO crops are either better yielding or result >in the reduction of polluting inputs. Other issues such as intellectual >property rights also need to be worked out. I think there is need for >caution before jumping on the GMO for crop bandwagon. > >What is most unsettling is that those "expert organisations" that are >promoting transgenic crops also own patents (e.g. US Dept. of Agriculture, >most US universities, and of course corporations). Given their obvious >conflict of interest, who can be trusted to give an un-biased and neutral >decision? > >Yes to biotech. "Need more data" on GMO for crops. > >Kevin Gallagher ("These views are the professional opinion of K. Gallagher >and not the official views of FAO or the UN system") > > ---------- Original Text ---------- > > > >>Nature 400, 15 - 16 (1999) 1 July 1999 > >> > >>Why Africa needs agricultural biotech > >> > >>FLORENCE WAMBUGU > >> Hans R. Herren Director General International Centre of Insect Physiology and Ecology POBox 30772 Kasarani, off Thika Road Nairobi, Kenya tel. +254 2 86 16 86 fax. + 254 2 86 16 90 e-mail: herren@africaonline.co.ke or hherren@icipe.org web page http://www.icipe.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 06:44:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA07524 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 06:44:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA25559 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 05:47:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from leopard.info.bw (IDENT:root@leopard.info.bw [168.167.209.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25467 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 05:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar (ppp203.info.bw [168.167.210.103] (may be forged)) by leopard.info.bw (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04643 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:47:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199908020947.LAA04643@leopard.info.bw> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Andrea Rother" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:57:21 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: GMO Debate in Africa Reply-to: ar@info.bw X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1932 Here's the last forwarded message from the AFRIK-IPM Discussion List. Regards, Andrea Rother Moderator, Pesticides-L Dept. of Community Health University of Cape Town South Africa e-mail: andrea@anat.uct.ac.za ********************************** Date sent: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 11:10:51 -0700 Send reply to: Afrik-IPM Discussion List From: Tsedeke Abate Subject: Re: Fwd: Why Africa Needs Biotech? To: AFRIK-IPM@LISTSERV.VT.EDU I wish someone could give us an indepth cost/benefit analysis of GM foods. Reference to the experiences of American farmers (soybean, maize, cotton) will help. All the best, Tsedeke Abate To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 06:45:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA07532 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 06:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA25320 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 05:46:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from leopard.info.bw (IDENT:root@leopard.info.bw [168.167.209.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25117 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 05:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ar (ppp203.info.bw [168.167.210.103] (may be forged)) by leopard.info.bw (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA04528 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:46:47 +0200 Message-Id: <199908020946.LAA04528@leopard.info.bw> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Andrea Rother" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:57:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: GMO Debate in Africa Reply-to: ar@info.bw X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1933 Dear SANET List Members, I thought you may be interested in some of the information and debates that we have had on the AFRIK-IPM Discussion List to add to your discussions in regard to GMO's in Africa. Below is one article and the other will be attached in a separate e-mail Regards, Andrea Rother Moderator, Pesticides-L Dept. of Community Health University of Cape Town South Africa e-mail: andrea@anat.uct.ac.za *********************************************** Date sent: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:02:39 -0400 Send reply to: Afrik-IPM Discussion List From: J-P Amirault Subject: Fwd: Why Africa Needs Biotech? To: AFRIK-IPM@LISTSERV.VT.EDU ---------- Original Text ---------- >>Nature 400, 15 - 16 (1999) 1 July 1999 >> >>Why Africa needs agricultural biotech >> >>FLORENCE WAMBUGU >> >>There is urgent need for the development and use of agricultural >>biotechnology in Africa to help to counter famine, environmental >>degradation and poverty. Africa must enthusiastically join the >>biotechnology revolution. >> >>The public debate on transgenic crops in Europe is centred on fear and >>mistrust, quite possibly resulting from the experience over 'mad cow >>disease'. A recent report1 from the Food Safety Authority of Ireland to >>address European Union concerns on genetically modified (GM) crops >>concluded that there is no evidence that transgenic foods are unsafe. The >>report, by a group led by Patrick Wall, the authority's chief executive, >>says that concern in Europe is based on ethical, socioeconomic and >>anti-multinational issues; lack of knowledge or misinformation; >>environmentalism; food labelling; and consideration of the needs of >>developing countries. >> >>Many of these concerns have nothing to do with food safety. Transgenic >>foods are eaten daily in the United States, Australia, Canada, Mexico and >>elsewhere with no reported undue effects2-4. Nevertheless, the experts' >>advice does not seem to influence public opinion in Europe, probably >>because of a strong anti-biotechnology lobby that actively promotes >>misinformation and fear, and also because in some cases people have had >>good reason to distrust 'expert' pronouncements. >> >>One example of Europeans' concern for the Third World is 'terminator >>technology' -- plants engineered to be sterile. But this technology is only >>a concept and is not being further developed. No products are planned for >>Africa or elsewhere. Critics of biotechnology have used the fear of this >>technology to promote serious anti-multinational attitudes -- for example, >>crops in trials have been burnt in some parts of the world. >> >>Another concern promoted by critics of food biotechnology is that of toxins >>or allergies. An example is the case of the unpublished study by Arpad >>Pusztai, formerly of the Rowett Research Institute in Scotland, who >>suggested that rats fed with GM potatoes expressing a snowdrop lectin were >>slowly being poisoned. After an independent scientific review, these >>results were found to be misleading and to have been misinterpreted5. But >>the anti-biotechnology lobby is still using them strongly to advance its >>case in Europe, even though transgenic foods are rigorously tested for >>possible toxins and allergens before commercialization. >> >>Surely there are parallels to be drawn with an antibiotic such as >>penicillin, which has continued to be used for many years despite many >>people being allergic to it because the benefits clearly outweigh the >>risks. Why is the same reasoning not applied to transgenic foods, where >>risks at even this low level are not proven? The anti-biotech lobby also >>cites as controversial the recombinant DNA processes used to develop >>transgenic foods. But the same processes are used to develop numerous >>pharmaceuticals for humans and animals, and many other industrial products. >>The public seems prepared to accept the application of GM techniques to new >>pharmaceutical products but not to food production. Why should there be >>different standards for crops and pharmaceuticals, particularly in Africa >>where the need for food is crucial for survival? >> >>African perspective The critics of biotechnology claim that Africa has no >>chance to benefit from biotechnology, and that Africa will only be a >>dumping ground or will be exploited by multinationals6,7. On the contrary, >>small-scale farmers in Africa have benefited by using hybrid seeds from >>local and multinational companies, and transgenic seeds in effect are >>simply an added-value improvement to these hybrids. Local farmers are >>benefiting from tissue-culture technologies for banana, sugar cane, >>pyrethrum, cassava and other crops. There is every reason to believe they >>will also benefit from the crop-protection transgenic technologies in the >>pipeline for banana, such as sigatoka, the disease-resistant transgenic >>variety now ready for field trials. Virus- and pest-resistant transgenic >>sugar-cane technologies are being developed in countries such as Mauritius, >>South Africa and Egypt. >> >>The African continent, more than any other, urgently needs agricultural >>biotechnology, including transgenic crops, to improve food production. >>African countries need to think and operate as stakeholders, rather than >>accepting the 'victim mentality' created in Europe. Africa has the local >>germplasm, some of it well-characterized and clean, being held in gene >>banks in trust by centres run by the Consultative Group of International >>Agricultural Research. It also has the indigenous knowledge, local field >>ecosystems for product development, capacities and infrastructure required >>by foreign multinational companies. >> >>The needs of Africa and Europe are different. Europe has surplus food and >>has never experienced hunger, mass starvation and death on the regular >>scale we sadly witness in Africa. The priority of Africa is to feed her >>people with safe foods and to sustain agricultural production and the >>environment. >> >>Africa missed the green revolution, which helped Asia and Latin America >>achieve self-sufficiency in food production. Africa cannot afford to be >>excluded or to miss another major global 'technological revolution'. It >>must join the biotechnology endeavour. Transgenic food production increased >>from 4 million to 70 million acres worldwide from 1996 to 1998 with >>measurable economic gains and with sustainable agricultural production2. It >>would be a much higher risk for Africa to ignore agricultural >>biotechnology. Africa's crop production per unit area of land is the lowest >>in the world. For example the production of sweet potato, a staple crop, is >>6 tonnes per hectare compared to the global average of 14 tonnes per >>hectare. China produces on average 18 tonnes per hectare, three times the >>African average. There is the potential to double African production if >>viral diseases are controlled using transgenic technology. >> >>The African continent imports at least 25 per cent of its grain. The use of >>biotechnology to increase local grain production is far preferable to this >>dependence on other countries, particularly as the population growth rate >>exceeds food production. The inability to produce adequate food forces >>Africa to rely on food aid from industrialized nations when mass starvation >>occurs. Although biotechnology is not the only answer to this problem, >>Africa should certainly benefit in many ways from its use, for example in >>improved seed quality and resistance to pests and diseases. >> >>The average maize yield in Africa is about 1.7 tonnes per hectare compared >>to a global average of 4 tonnes per hectare. Some bio-technology >>applications can be used to reduce this gap, for example in the case of the >>maize streak virus (MSV), which causes losses of 100 per cent of the crop >>in many parts of the continent. A biotechnology-transfer project is under >>way to develop MSV-resistant varieties. The project is brokered by the >>International Service for the Acquisition of Agri-Biotech Applications >>(ISAAA), and involves the collaboration of the Kenya Agricultural Research >>Institute (KARI), the University of Cape Town, the International Centre for >>Insect Physiology and Ecology in Kenya, and the John Innes Centre in the >>United Kingdom. Funding is coming from the US Rockefeller Foundation, and >>Novartis in Europe has donated some technology to KARI. >> >>Researchers at KARI are studying the mechanism of MSV resistance and trying >>to map the genes responsible. Advanced biotechnology skills, including the >>use of advanced agroinoculation techniques and molecular markers, is at the >>core of this effort. A priority in Kenya is also to produce high-yielding, >>drought-tolerant crop varieties to boost food production in the 71 per cent >>of the country that is arid or semi-arid. >> >>Africa needs biotechnology to solve its environmental problems, and there >>is unlimited public demand for agricultural biotechnology products and >>services. In Kenya, the demand for tree seedlings reaches 14 million per >>year, whereas the country can only supply 3 million, a clear indication of >>the need for tissue-culture and cloning techniques to curb deforestation >>and boost reforestation using indigenous species threatened with >>extinction. These technologies are being successfully used in South Africa, >>and ISAAA has facilitated a project for application in Kenya. There are >>issues of intellectual property rights and patents that require hard work >>to develop or acquire, and advanced agricultural biotechnology skills will >>be needed. There may also be a need to work out collaboration agreements >>with the private sector or with companies that already have patents. >> >>Biotechnology in Africa is needs-based. After working at KARI for nearly a >>decade to help improve sweet-potato production using traditional breeding >>and agronomy methods, I made no progress. An opportunity to work in the >>private biotechnology sector abroad resulted in the development of a >>transgenic variety that is resistant to sweet-potato feathery mottle virus, >>which can reduce yields by 20-80 per cent. Control of this disease will >>improve household food security for millions. This project involved >>collaboration between KARI, a project called Agricultural Biotechology for >>Sustainable Productivity, funded by the US Agency for International >>Development, and Monsanto. The work by Kenyan scientists focuses on local >>varieties, and there will be a smooth and sustainable transfer of the >>technology, which will be shared with neighbouring countries. Kenyan >>scientists have been trained in gene technology techniques. ISAAA has been >>asked to help with the transfer and licensing agreement. Similar projects >>are under way for bananas, sugar cane and tropical fruits. >> >>Remaining problems Needless to say, Africa has many problems -- a shortage >>of skilled people (especially in biotechnology), poor funding of research, >>lack of appropriate policies and civil strife. Nevertheless, countries such >>as South Africa, Egypt, Zimbabwe and Kenya are taking practical steps to >>ensure that they can use biotechnology for sustainable development. >> >>African countries need to avoid exploitation and to participate as >>stakeholders in the transgenic biotechnology business. They need the right >>policies and agencies, such as operational biosafety regulatory agencies, >>breeders' rights and an effective local public and private sector, to >>interface with multinational companies that already have the technologies. >>Consumers need to be informed of the pros and cons of various agricultural >>biotechnology packages, the dangers of using unsuitable foreign germplasm, >>and how to avoid the loss of local germplasm and to maintain local >>diversity. Other checks and balances are required to avoid patenting local >>germplasm and innovations by multinationals; to ensure policies on >>intellectual property rights and to avoid unfair competition; to prevent >>the monopoly buying of local seed companies; and to prevent the >>exploitation of local consumers and companies by foreign multinationals. >>Field trials need to be done locally, in Africa, to establish environmental >>safety under tropical conditions. >> >>The main goal is to find a balanced formula for how local institutions can >>participate in transgenic product development and share the benefits, risks >>and profits of the technology, as they own the local germplasm needed by >>the multinationals for sustainable commercialization. New varieties must >>not simply replace local ones. The removal of genes that were in the public >>domain into the private sector raises concern in Africa. >> >>All these issues mean that Africa must strengthen its capacity to deal with >>various aspects of biotechnology, including issues of biosafety, creating >>and sustaining gene banks, and encouraging the emergence of a local >>biotechnology private sector. The great potential of biotechnology to >>increase agriculture in Africa lies in its 'packaged technology in the >>seed', which ensures technology benefits without changing local cultural >>practices. In the past, many foreign donors funded high-input projects, >>which have failed to be sustainable because they have failed to address >>social and economic issues such as changes in cultural practice. The >>criticism of agribiotech products in Europe is based on socioeconomic >>issues and not food safety issues, and no evidence so far justifies the >>opinion of some in Europe that Africa should be excluded from transgenic >>crops. Africans can speak for themselves. >> >>The ISAAA receives about 60% of its funding from philanthropic foundations >>such as Rockefeller, McKnight and Hitachi; 30% from bilateral agencies such >>as Danida (Denmark), BMZ (Germany) and USAID; and 10% from biotech >>companies such as Novartis, Agrevo, Pioneer and Monsanto. The views >>expressed here are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of >>ISAAA. >> >>Florence Wambugu is director of the International Service for the >>Acquisition of Agri-Biotech Applications (ISAAA AfriCenter), Regional >>African Office, PO Box 25171, Nairobi, Kenya. e-mail: f.wambugu@cgiar.org >> >> >>References >> >> 1. www.fsai.ie >> 2. James, C. Global Review of Commercialized Transgenic >> Crops ISAAA Brief No. 8 (ISAAA, 1998). >> 3. Food and Agriculture Organization Biotechnology and Food >> Safety Food and Nutrition Paper No. 61 (FAO, Rome, 1996). >> 4. Genetically Engineered Food Production Gathers Pace CSIRO >> Media Release 99/117 (CSIRO, Guelph, Canada, 1999). >> 5. Loder, N. Nature 399, 188 (1999). >> 6. Christian Aid and other groups in GM-FREE: Keeping your Life >> and Environment Free of Genetically Modified Food Vol. 1, >> No. 2 (KHI, Skelmersdale, June/July 1999). >> 7. Nuffield Council on Bioethics Genetically Modified Crops, >> www.nuffield.org/bioethics/publication/modifiedcrops/index.html >> >>************************************************ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 09:00:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09001 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA08937 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:05:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA08926 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:05:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-31.csj.net [12.29.22.31]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20947 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:06:22 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Subject: RE: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:05:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000501bedcdf$42d62220$b4b5fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1934 They have "APPLIED" for the patent-they do not have the patent. The US the patent examiners are now very, very leery of this kind of patent. I would not put money on them getting it in the US. Patents on natural plant and animal products are difficult to obtain, the result of an attempt by the US PO to stem the tide of gene and plant patents. I just went through this for the last 9 months and I had to demonstrate not only that the rhea had more of the particular factor, ATP, but that my process enhanced the natural properties inherent in the meat of the bird not obtainable by eating a rhea steak. In my first patent two years ago I only had to demonstrate how the oil was different from the other previously patented similar substances. >From the news release it sounds like they really don't have a strong explanation as to why this is happening. The patent officers are not going to be impressed by that either. Now, if they found a way to enhance the properties, i.e. by treating the beds with an unusual, non-predicted substance like cherry coke, they would definitely have something. Other organisms do this also, earthworms for one, so that is not unique in and of itself. Donna Fezler GCR Jacksonville, IL -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [SMTP:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Beth Lischeron Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 1:06 AM To: Bargyla Rateaver; Lon J. Rombough Cc: SANET; AGRISYNERGY Subject: Re: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils I suppose the next step is patenting clover because it 'remediates nitrogen poor soil', water because it 'remediates non-turgid plant cells', cats because they 'remediate mice-infested barns', slugs because they 'remediate hunger driven skunks', air because it remediates oxygen-depleted lungs' ... No doubt somebody somewhere is working on a gene splice to "enhance those traits" If it's good for the GDP, it must be good for us all. Up to my ears in the Frankenstein File, lemon-scented geraniums and well-aged horse manure, Beth : > ---------- >From: Bargyla Rateaver >To: "Lon J. Rombough" >Cc: SANET , AGRISYNERGY >Subject: Re: FW: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils >Date: Aug 1, 1999, 3:41 PM > > Should think one could always say:"I did not plant those flowers for THAT > reason." > ====================== > > Lon J. Rombough wrote: > >> Forwarded for the interest of the list members. >> ---------- >> From: Amy >> To: OGL@LSV.UKY.EDU >> Subject: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils >> Date: Sat, Jul 31, 1999, 8:52 PM >> >> This from Richters HerbLetter >> By Carolyn Abraham >> >> TORONTO, July 16, [Toronto] Globe and Mail -- Researchers at the >> University of Guelph have applied for an international patent on >> lemon-scented geraniums, believing they are pollution-eating plants that >> could clean the environment and restore a toxic land patch to Garden of >> Eden. >> >> Their research has found that the familiar flowering plant has an >> uncanny ability to absorb metal and organic pollutants which could help to >> detoxify everything from abandoned gas station sites to old mining lands. >> >> They may also be of particular benefit to developing countries whose >> crop yields suffer because of naturally occurring high metal content in >> their soils. >> >> Plant biologist Praveen Saxena and his team are now hurrying to find >> the genes that endow the lemon-scented geranium with its rare ability to >> absorb pollutants so they might, through genetic engineering, enhance >> those traits. >> >> And although they have not yet discovered those genes, they have >> requested in the patent application field last year that their claim >> include any genetically modified form of the lemon-scented geranium that >> would be used to detoxify the environment. >> >> Patents have been issued on other plants, Dr. Saxena said. But the >> issue of laying an ownership claim over a natural life form remains a >> controversal area of biotechnology. This is partly because critics argue >> that patents often make new agricultural technology unaffordable to >> farmers who could benefit from it. >> >> Stephanie De Grandis, associate director of Guelph's business >> development office, explained that the patent would not be on the plant, >> but on the process of using the plant for cleaning up contaminated soil, >> called phytoremediation. >> >> "Anyone who went out to use these geraniums for phytoremediation would >> have to come and talk to us [if the patent is granted]," Dr. De Grandis >> said, adding that anyone who didn't could face legal action. >> >> After planting the scented geraniums in contaminated soil samples from >> an undisclosed site in Canada and conducting a similar trial at a >> contaminated Hamilton location, the researchers found that the plants >> cleaned up toxic soil and flourished in it. >> >> "With other methods to get rid of toxic metals in the soil, the soil >> is left clean, but it's useless," Dr. Saxena said. But by planting >> lemon-scented geraniums to clean the soil, the same land could later be >> used for farming, he added. >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 09:48:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09661 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA07890 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from travelers.mail.cornell.edu (TRAVELERS.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA07775 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:57:03 -0400 (EDT) From: dsc17@cornell.edu Received: (from nobody@localhost) by travelers.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) id IAA04209; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908021256.IAA04209@travelers.mail.cornell.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: travelers.mail.cornell.edu: nobody set sender to dsc17@cornell.edu using -f To: Bargyla Rateaver Reply-To: dsc17@cornell.edu Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu References: <643A0FA6A12@agecon.uga.edu> <37A274EA.2E4C9700@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <37A274EA.2E4C9700@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 X-Originating-IP: 132.236.126.40 Subject: Re: killer jokes Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1935 I want to reiterate that one weed that does cause a huge problem, at least in Mali and parts of Senegal, is Striga sp. (in English "witchweed". I could give you the Wolof name but that would do you little good) a root parasite that attacks millet, sorghum, etc Your assessmant of the problems caused by "slash and burn"(S&B)ag are in line with my experiences in Senegal Striga thrives in poor, depleted soil...caused largely by S&B. I'm not sure how biotech can help..make striga-resistant plants? Sounds possbile, but I would start with measures that improve soil fertility first,..and do not make farmers dependent on outside resources like GE millet and sorghum. My point is that there is a killer weed that does lead to hunger in Africa..not thatI agree with Sec. G's solution David To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 10:23:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10267 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA23188 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA23167 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990802132830.17381.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 06:28:30 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 06:28:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: spirituality--follow up comment To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1936 Good morning SANETeers, I've had some private emails and there have been a few public email comments on my spirituality post. Here is a snip from a side email... " Please do not make the common mistake of worshiping the Creation rather than the Creator." I use this to exemplify the need to be very careful in the language we use with one another. This sentence implies that my belief system is wrong, that I am making a mistake. To me, tolerance of another's belief is very important. And for spirituality to have any place on a list of 800 people who reside all over the world, tolerance will be key. We each have struggled to piece together a construct of "the great spirit". With that said, most of the emails seek to include in a belief system, the notion of a Creator and most have some notion of a God that is referred to with the pronoun "he". I can accept this. In my head, however, I do not use a male/female notion when I think of "the old one" or "Creation". This seems too limiting. If God is everything, then God can not just be a "he". Joel did a good job of taking this thread and weaving it into the SANET fabric. The thought that sustainability is about a connection to the spirit of the land and soil is fecund with possibility. kate _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 11:11:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11156 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17466 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:15:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17401 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA22301 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990802102251.007d1930@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:22:51 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: Research links breast cancer, beef hormones In-Reply-To: <199908020948.FAA26334@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1937 I am not endorsing hormones in beef, but when a scientist says >"There is no other reason to explain it," Sonnenschein said in an >interview Friday. > I get a little nervous. Yes, the problems the scientist identifies are real. And do we really want all these tasty hormones in our burgers? Of course not. But if there is no other way to explain why women get breast cancer than hormones in beef, how do you explain Linda McCartney's recent death from breast cancer? She was a vegetarian for decades. I think scienctist can have a lot to offer in these debates. But it is very easy for advocates on both sides of the issues to find -- and often pay -- scientists to say what supports their position. It would be better in the long run to develop a risk analysis than say you must do x or never do y to avoid the big C. It is more credible to the public (who are growing skeptical of scientists that say "never eat eggs" and then later say "eat eggs") and probably more reflective of the reality that there are a lot of things out there causing illness. Some are what we choose to put in our mouths, but some are what we breath or drink that are there because of our industrial society. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 11:16:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11295 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:16:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA23635 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA23627 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from the-network-asy-35.rutgers.edu (the-network-asy-35.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.35]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA23710 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:11:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: the-network-asy-35.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.35] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <37A5D0BB.4FAD@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:09:15 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: Seeking a reference-my last ditch effort Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1938 Dear Sanet folk, My research, and all of my thinking about sustainability, involves flows of material and energy. Unfortunately, much more economic data is available than the more commodity-specific information in units of tons or bushels or atoms of carbon. One reference recommended to me simply cannot be found. I have been looking high and low, both alone and with the help of several expert librarians for any leads on the following publication: The Nature of Wealth: Discovering the Physics Within an Economic System by Fred Lundgren and Jerome Friemel National Organization of Raw Materials, Kansas City, Missouri: 1994. I can't find the publication, its authors, or this organization. Assuming it exists, I bet some one of you out there can provide a lead. I would sure appreciate that, along with any other tips on how to get (where to look for) information on material flows more generally. Somewhat in line with the ongoing discussions, I believe the dissociation of mass balance from monetary economics makes practically all our discussions essentially skew lines in space. In particular the word "efficient." The concept of "efficiency" within economics is at best unrelated to, and at worst, diametrically opposed to, the understanding that the physical scientist and the general public attach to the word. Thanks for any help with my reference-locating problem! Writing from NJ, where I planted a green manure crop (cowpea and buckwheat) on June 11 and nary a drop of rain has fallen from that day to this. The amazing thing to me is that those darned cowpeas are actually growing! I can't explain it. Everything else is brown and crunchy. Loren M. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 12:24:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12610 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00771 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:34:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA00689 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:34:42 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 862567C1.00552F54; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:30:26 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 862567C1.00557A02 ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:33:37 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu, foodnet@lists.tmn.com, ncrsare@unl.edu, pdpstco@unl.edu Message-ID: <862567C1.00557932.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:33:34 -0500 Subject: NCR SARE Improves Website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=FZkFxVX5PY7LMizGRL5c6a50NJaX5khqlXK9UwXvrRVu8KPrRRBG9E4S" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1939 --0__=FZkFxVX5PY7LMizGRL5c6a50NJaX5khqlXK9UwXvrRVu8KPrRRBG9E4S Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline A N N O U N C E M E N T For more information, contact: Lisa Bauer, NCR SARE Communications Specialist, lbauer2@unl.edu, 402-472-0265 NORTH CENTRAL SARE WEBSITE FACELIFT PRESENTS USER-FRIENDLY FEATURES Lincoln, NE -- The North Central Region SARE program invites farmers and ranchers, researchers, educators and others interested in North Central region sustainable agriculture to http://www.sare.org/ncrsare for information on research results, competitive grants and other resources to support profitable, environmentally sound farming and ranching systems. --0__=FZkFxVX5PY7LMizGRL5c6a50NJaX5khqlXK9UwXvrRVu8KPrRRBG9E4S Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ?We designed the new website as a user-friendly means to deliver inform= ation to a variety of audiences,? said Steve Waller, NCR SARE regional coordinat= or. ?This site will simplify the process of applying for grants and obtaining sus= tainable agriculture information, and it should even entice new audiences to participate.? Users can find the latest information about NCR SARE activities and pro= grams, including competitive grants, educational opportunities, sustainable ag= riculture resources and links to products from the national SARE office and SARE?= s Sustainable Agriculture Network (SAN). Features include: - application forms for competitive grant programs; - helpful tips and links for grant applicants; - information sorted by North Central states, including links to funded= SARE projects, state SARE contacts, and lists of and links to state organiza= tions; - newsletters, fact sheets and links to other publications and resource= s from SARE; - links to the national SARE program and SAN, which offer a variety sus= tainable ag information products and a searchable database of SARE projects; - links to organizations and programs nationwide; - information on NCR SARE?s November 1999 marketing conference; - and, coming soon, a calendar of educational events and resources deve= loped in NCR SARE?s Professional Development Program. Contact Lisa Bauer at 402-472-0265 or lbauer2@unl.edu for more informat= ion. We welcome your comments to further improve the site. ### **Special thanks to the Sustainable Agriculture Network (SAN), host of = the NCR site, and SAN?s Internet specialist, Tom Bates.** Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. PO Box 830840 Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) lbauer2@unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare = --0__=FZkFxVX5PY7LMizGRL5c6a50NJaX5khqlXK9UwXvrRVu8KPrRRBG9E4S-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 12:38:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12835 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA10869 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:53:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA10834 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990802155338.7361.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 08:53:38 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Forward of Washington Post Article--pesticides To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1940 here is a forward. also in the Post is the third in a series of articles on the poultry industry and the Bay. check it out at www.washingtonpost.com . kate EPA Caught Between Farmers, Food Safety Fears By Tom Kenworthy Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, August 2, 1999; Page A1 For 20 years, Steve Strong has been raising peaches, plums and nectarines in California's San Joaquin Valley, relying on a pesticide called methyl parathion to control worms and scale insects. "It's a very useful tool," Strong said. "It gives us a hammer to halt an economic disaster." So along with thousands of other growers, Strong will be paying close attention today when the Environmental Protection Agency is expected to announce several thousand new limits on the amount of pesticide residues allowed on food. Among the announcements, the EPA is expected to ban most uses of methyl parathion and a related pesticide on fruits frequently consumed by infants and children. The restrictions stem from the Food Quality Protection Act, which mandated a broad overhaul of pesticide regulations to better assess and prevent risks to public health, particularly in children. The law directs the EPA, for example, to apply "an additional tenfold margin of safety" for infants and children except when there is "reliable data" that a less stringent standard would be safe. Born in a rare burst of bipartisanship on Capitol Hill -- it passed both houses of Congress in a period of eight days in 1996 without a dissenting vote -- the law has been the subject of furious infighting ever since as the EPA has moved to implement it. Methyl parathion and the roughly four dozen other "organophosphates" account for about half the pesticides used in the United States. Because they are so widely used -- on grains, vegetables and fruits, as well as on pets and to control mosquitoes and termites -- and because of longstanding concerns about their safety, the EPA has made a priority the review of organophosphates, including the methyl parathion used by Strong on his 2,000 acres of fruit in California. The stakes for both industry and the general public are huge. Depending on how tough the EPA is in restricting their use, farmers and other users may have to switch to more expensive alternatives. A year ago, alarmed by the direction the EPA was taking, the American Crop Protection Association warned that "sooner or later, virtually all pesticides and pesticide uses will be jeopardized." Then three months ago, all seven environmental and farm worker groups serving on an EPA advisory panel on the reassessment process resigned en masse. The pesticide industry and agribusiness interests, charged one environmentalist, had "hijacked" the process. The intense battle over implementation of the new law is a classic example of how the complex process of agency rulemaking is often far more important than congressional legislating, and of how difficult it is to translate a relatively simple goal -- in this case ensuring Americans their food supply is safe -- into practice. To guarantee that Americans are protected from potentially unsafe levels of pesticide residues on food, the new law directed the EPA to reexamine the allowable levels for hundreds of different pesticides. Overall, the agency must review about 9,700 levels -- each use of a particular pesticide on an individual crop. The law requires complete evaluations of one-third of them by Tuesday, focusing first on those that pose the highest risk. Although among the most important and far-reaching provisions in the law are stringent safety requirements for children -- a response to a 1993 National Academy of Sciences report -- the law also requires the EPA to take into account the aggregate risk from different sources -- drinking water and pest-control efforts in the home, for example, as well as food -- and to consider the cumulative effects of pesticides that act in a similar manner. "The science here is enormously challenging," said a senior EPA official who spoke about the upcoming announcement on the condition of anonymity. "The act requires us for the first time ever to look at all the exposure pathways for these chemicals. . . . All of it is very controversial." About 60 million pounds of the cheap and effective organophosphates are used on about 60 million acres each year, and another 17 million pounds are used in the home and for other non-agricultural purposes. Organophosphates work by interfering in the normal transmission of nerve impulses, and they are effective against many types of insects. Though they do not persist in the environment like the banned pesticide DDT, organophosphates as a class are highly toxic, which is why some were produced as nerve agents during World War II. Alarmed by their potential to harm the developing nervous systems of infants and children -- who eat many foods with organophosphate residues -- environmental groups have called for a ban on many of these chemicals. In a recent report, for example, the Environmental Working Group estimated that more than 1 million children a day consume "an unsafe dose" of organophosphates. "We've been saying for a long time these organophosphates pose a risk to kids," said Ken Cook, the organization's president. But despite the attention paid to organophosphates, it is unlikely that when the EPA announces the results of its reassessment Monday it will have completed its work on those chemicals. According to several people who have closely tracked the agency's progress, EPA is likely to take action against a few high-profile targets -- banning methyl parathion after this year's growing season, for example -- while setting a timetable for completing action on the remaining organophosphates. And in those cases where it does propose to eliminate specific pesticide uses, EPA will establish "a common sense-type transition strategy" to minimize hardships for farmers, said an agency official. "What they want to do is announce some very modest steps on a handful of organophosphates to suggest they are doing what they should be doing," said Erik Olsen, a senior attorney with the Natural Resources Defense Council, which is planning to file a lawsuit against the EPA over the issue. "But clearly they are not going to have taken action on the vast majority of organophosphates by Aug. 3. They are way behind." Jay Vroom, president of the American Crop Protection Association, which represents the interests of farmers and the pesticide industry, predicts that the agricultural community will be treated fairly in Monday's decision. "I think the agency has struggled mightily and done good work," he said. "I'd say it will be fair, and there will be some pain, but we will survive." Olsen and other environmentalists feel that, to this point, the agricultural and chemical industries have won the battle over implementation of the pesticide law. "They've pulled out all the stops," Olsen said. A key moment, the environmentalists argue, came in April of last year, when Vice President Gore sent a memo to EPA Administrator Carol M. Browner and Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman. Gore directed that the Department of Agriculture -- long viewed by environmentalists as favoring the pesticide interests of farmers -- be included in "a sound regulatory approach" that would give "due regard" to the "needs of our Nation's agricultural producers." To the administration's critics in the environmental community, that sent a clear signal to an agency that the Environmental Working Group has called a "farm team for the pesticide lobby" because so many top pesticide regulators have gone on to represent industry interests in the private sector. If his side is winning the faraway Washington battle, it sometimes doesn't feel that way to California farmer Strong, who worries what he will do if the EPA takes methyl parathion out of his pest control arsenal. "We have no big hammers to replace it," he said. 1999 The Washington Post Company _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 12:53:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13107 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA14772 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:57:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14703 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.238.38]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990802155654.WSP8676@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:56:54 +0000 Message-ID: <37A5BF96.177F0BBF@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:56:06 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ",SANET-mg" Subject: Re: Research links breast cancer, beef hormones References: <3.0.6.32.19990802102251.007d1930@crocker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1941 I don't recall that Dr. Sonnenchein said that beef hormones are the ONLY way that women get breast cancer. Other studies co-authored by Dr. Sonnenchein has shown that some manmade chemicals, such as nonylphenols behave like estrogens. Nonylphenols are among some other identified estrogenic chemicals which are among the misnamed ''inerts'' in pesticides. This they came about accidentally when an estrogenic effect was caused to a human breast tissue culture due to leaching from a petri-dish. It caused the cells to multiply. This occurred, despite the scientists having NOT added estrogen to the culture. After requesting data unsuccessfully regarding changes from the manufacturing company, the scientists acquired services to do reverse engineering on the petri dishes, to discovered the which compound was potentially causing the estrogenic response. It was about this time, that they learned of nonylphenols. And, a short time later, the manufacturer confessed that the formula had been changed in the dishes, but the information was not shared on the label. All this was covered in the book, co-authored by Theo Colborn, PhD, which documented the story behind the accidental discovery by Sonnenchein and Anna Soto, Ph.D. Dr. Colborn's book, which will, no doubt, receive criticism by industry flaks on this list, is titled OUR STOLEN FUTURE (1996) and is written as a scientific mystery, but contains citations to thousands of scientific studies.. Studies of which some are published in Environmental Health Perspectives and other respectable journals. We must be careful not to put words into press releases and studies that are not actually present. Bunny Snow ----------------------------------------------------- Mark wrote: > I am not endorsing hormones in beef, but when a scientist says > > >"There is no other reason to explain it," Sonnenschein said in an > >interview Friday. > > > > I get a little nervous. Yes, the problems the scientist identifies are > real. And do we really want all these tasty hormones in our burgers? Of > course not. But if there is no other way to explain why women get breast > cancer than hormones in beef, how do you explain Linda McCartney's recent > death from breast cancer? She was a vegetarian for decades. > > I think scienctist can have a lot to offer in these debates. But it is > very easy for advocates on both sides of the issues to find -- and often > pay -- scientists to say what supports their position. It would be better > in the long run to develop a risk analysis than say you must do x or never > do y to avoid the big C. It is more credible to the public (who are > growing skeptical of scientists that say "never eat eggs" and then later > say "eat eggs") and probably more reflective of the reality that there are > a lot of things out there causing illness. Some are what we choose to put > in our mouths, but some are what we breath or drink that are there because > of our industrial society. > > Mark > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization. www.buylocalfood.com > > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 12:54:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13126 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA17956 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:04:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [216.12.0.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17950 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 2119 invoked from network); 2 Aug 1999 15:58:48 -0000 Received: from c3s3m13.cfw.com (HELO cfw.com) (216.12.54.64) by milo.cfw.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 1999 15:58:48 -0000 Message-ID: <37A5C15A.9A3CE911@cfw.com> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 12:03:38 -0400 From: Jeff Ishee X-Sender: "Jeff Ishee" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan/Rachna Boone CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery vs. Salatin/Installment #1 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1942 Nathan/Rachna Boone wrote: > > To help you cut down your costs, can you email the transcript? I really don't want to use up those 20 printed pages and postage. Or, better yet, post it on a web site and you won't have any costs! > > Thanks for offering the debate. ****************** Nathan and Saneteers, Great idea, but there are still costs in paying a receptionist for six hours of transcribing the Avery/Salatin debate. If I were with a university or government agency, then I could simply assign the project of transcription to someone lower on the totem pole. But our radio station is not a university or a government agency. This is real world/real costs. Sincerely, Jeff Ishee Farm Director/WSVA Radio P.O. Box 752 Harrisonburg, VA 22801 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 12:57:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13198 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21526 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:12:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21499 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08924 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EG2EYAT2; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 12:07:06 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:52:43 -0700 Subject: Corn root worm/cucumber beetle and jimson weed Message-ID: <19990802.085244.3470.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3,10,16,20,26-27 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1943 I was startled recently to read that corn root worms grow up to become cucumber beetles. I assume the reference was for either striped cucumber beetle (genus Acalymma) or spotted cucumber beetle (genus Diabrotica). This brings up a question about crop rotation. Last year, I noticed jimson weed (Datura) was a "great" trap crop for cucumber beetles (I think they were striped, but I'm not sure and I can't find any to look at right now). I let one specimen grow in my garden. By mid summer that jimson weed's leaves were riddled with holes but it was taking over a lot more space than I intended. Still, I enjoyed the lovely aromatic flowers and my cucurbits had not a beetle on them. This year, I planted corn and beans in that area and have been grumbling about jimson weed ever since. Not only did I pull out jillions of jimson weed seedlings, but I've been digging ever deeper into the corn patch trying to get rid of the tuber that keeps putting up shoots. Believe me, I'll limit jimson weed to the wild flower portion of the property in the future. Meanwhile, my corn (desert adapted--open pollinated) isn't showing any signs of losing root growth. Some blew almost down, but that was in a tremendous rain storm that even broke off lots of the native wild flowers. I conclude that it isn't a good idea to grow corn very close to anything (jimson weed, wild gourds, cucumbers, etc.) that attracts cucumber beetles, but I wonder how much distance and how long in the rotation is appropriate. Or is corn root worm a problem only in large mono cultures of hybrid corn that will be mechanically harvested? I'd be interested in reactions from gardeners, corn growers, or entomologists. Regards, Edna Weigel ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 13:30:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA13790 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA05883 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:35:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA05811 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.224] (dial210.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.210]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA13563; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Jeff Ishee From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Re: Avery vs. Salatin/Installment #1 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1944 Dear Jeff, Thanks for the response. Would you offer an at-cost email version to saneteers? I appreciate your transcribing costs, but am hoping that we can cut out copying and postage to save paper and money. Thanks, Nathan >Nathan and Saneteers, > > Great idea, but there are still costs in paying a receptionist for six >hours of transcribing the Avery/Salatin debate. If I were with a >university or government agency, then I could simply assign the project >of transcription to someone lower on the totem pole. But our radio >station is not a university or a government agency. This is real >world/real costs. > >Sincerely, > >Jeff Ishee >Farm Director/WSVA Radio >P.O. Box 752 >Harrisonburg, VA 22801 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 15:07:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16699 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA09099 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ux11.cso.uiuc.edu (jmaxwell@ux11.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.105]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA09023; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jmaxwell@localhost) by ux11.cso.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29249; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:23:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ux11.cso.uiuc.edu: jmaxwell owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:23:48 -0500 (CDT) From: j scott maxwell X-Sender: jmaxwell@ux11.cso.uiuc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu cc: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: 2,4-Dinitrophenol In-Reply-To: <199907302210.SAA15174@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1945 Hi, I haven't posted here before but have been following the discussions for a few months now and wanted to share some information that is relevant to the discussion of whether 2,4- Dinitrophenol is a pesticide or not and its relative toxicity. According to my 1989 Farm Chemicals Handbook, 2,4-Dinitrophenol is indeed a pesticide sold under the trade name Chemox PE. It is listed as an insecticide/acaricide and fungicide. As for toxicity it is relatively toxic, judging from the oral LD50 value (the quantity of material needed to kill 50% of the test animals) of 30mg/kg. By way of comparison, the herbicide 2,4-D has an oral LD50 of 375 mg/kg, and chlorpyrifos ( a very widely used insecticide) has an LD50 of about 100mg/kg. I don't know if this material is still available or if it has been banned since 1989. It is also important to keep in mind that when a material gets into the environment its specific "toxicity" is often less important than other properties that determine its bioavailability ... is it persistent, does it readily degrade into less or more toxic materials, does it complex with soil constituents and become unavailable to organisms or does it readily leach, etc. Scott Maxwell Graduate Student in Environmental Science Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois, Urbana IL To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 15:09:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16771 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA02526 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:13:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f127.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.127]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA02417 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 63646 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 1999 18:12:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990802181234.63645.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.108.9.129 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:12:31 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.108.9.129] From: "Emily Young" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Fwd: {GE} Wall St J. piece on Genetically-Altered Baby Foods Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:12:31 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1946 Thought some of you might like to see the article from the Wall Street Journal about GE and Gerber Thank you (to Kate, I think) for the post that announced it. > > > > > >================================ > >Date Posted: 07/30/1999 > >Posted by: Charles.Margulis@dialb.greenpeace.org > >================================ > > > >page one, Wall St Journal > > > >July 30, 1999 > > > > > >Genetically-Altered Baby Foods Are Being Rejected -- by Adults > > > >By LUCETTE LAGNADO Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL > > > >The letter scrolling out of a fax machine at the Gerber baby-food company > >in Michigan May 28 was just one of many arriving that day and didn't even > >name the person it was meant for, but it sure got attention. Within days, > >it had found its way to Gerber's parent company in Switzerland, Novartis > >AG, and come to the attention of its chief executive officer. There, > >executives soon were taking steps to overhaul a decades-old product that > >generates $1 billion in annual sales. > > > >The letter came from Charles Margulis, a New York man who addressed it > >simply "to the CEO" because he didn't know the chief executive's name. >The > >return address was his small apartment on the Upper West Side of > >Manhattan. But the letter also carried the logo of his employer, > >Greenpeace, the activist European environmental group. > > > >"As you know, there is growing concern around the world about genetically > >engineered food," it said. Greenpeace is "concerned that the release of > >genetically engineered organisms into the environment and food supply may > >have irreversible consequences." Does Gerber use genetically engineered > >products in its baby food, the letter wanted to know. If so, which > >products? And "what steps have you taken [if any] to ensure you are not > >using" genetically modified ingredients? > > > >Mr. Margulis asked for a reply within five business days. > > > >Europe's Ways > > > >These are tense times for U.S. food and agricultural industries: European > >opposition to importing corn and soybeans grown from genetically modified > >seeds, or beef from hormone-fed cattle, has led to an ugly trade dispute > >and taken a big bite out of U.S. agricultural exports. American >consumers, > >however, have so far greeted the hubbub roiling Europe with a big yawn. > >The U.S. Food and Drug Administration says genetically modified foods >"are > >as safe as other foods in the grocery store." > > > >But the concern at Novartis is that all this could turn on a dime -- that > >because of Greenpeace's efforts, European worries about the safety of > >genetically modified crops could leap across the Atlantic and damage > >Gerber, the largest baby-food producer in the U.S. Novartis officials had > >been hoping Gerber was immune to the anti-bioengineered-food passions >that > >have whipped through Europe in recent years. The letter from Mr. Margulis > >made them stop hoping and start planning. > > > >The company firmly believes that the bioengineered foods are safe to > >consume. Indeed, another unit of Novartis sells genetically altered crop > >seeds with which to produce such foods. But this summer, Novartis is > >moving rapidly to make preemptive changes at Gerber: At some cost and > >considerable inconvenience, Gerber is dropping some of its existing corn > >and soybean suppliers in favor of ones that can produce crops that aren't > >genetically altered. That is to say, it will no longer buy corn grown >from > >seeds modified so that the plants are resistant to corn borers, or > >soybeans from seeds altered so the crop can tolerate being sprayed with a > >potent weedkiller. > > > >It is an issue that is suddenly confronting all the U.S. baby-food > >producers. H.J. Heinz Co., the maker of the Earth's Best line, says it >has > >just decided that this line and all other baby food it produces will be > >manufactured without using genetically modified crops. A private > >manufacturer in Poway, Calif., called Healthy Times Natural Foods has > >switched from Canola oil, which sometimes is genetically altered, to > >safflower oil after facing questions from Greenpeace. As for BeechNut > >Nutrition Corp., it says it probably doesn't have much of a problem with > >this because it uses no soy and little corn. > > > >Gerber, going even further than what Greenpeace demands, plans to use >corn > >flour and soy flour that are "organic" -- that is, the crops not only > >aren't genetically altered, but they also were grown without the use of > >any insecticides or herbicides. Then, if the technicalities can be worked > >out, it plans to change ingredient labels on certain baby-food boxes and > >jars to include the word "organic." The company will still use some corn > >that isn't organic, but it will be corn that hasn't been genetically > >altered. Gerber, however, is cautious about offering any guarantees that > >its products can be made totally free of such ingredients. > > > >"I want our mothers to be comfortable," says Al Piergallini, president >and > >chief executive officer of Novartis's U.S. consumer health operation, > >which oversees Gerber. "I have got to listen to my customers. So, if >there > >is an issue, or even an inkling of an issue, I am going to make amends. >We > >have to act pre-emptively." > > > >The label issue is trickier, first because of the difficulty of avoiding > >trace amounts of genetically modified foods in the U.S., and second > >because the FDA has strict rules about what a food producer can claim > >about its product on its label. Yet one of Greenpeace's central demands >is > >that Gerber and other baby-food makers label all their products to say > >whether they contain genetically modified ingredients. To sort out this > >ticklish issue, Gerber is assembling an advisory panel of outside experts > >from several U.S. environmental and consumer groups. > > > >The whole undertaking is a dicey matter, because by shunning ingredients > >it has used for years, Gerber risks confusing or frightening its core > >customers, as well as appearing to endorse food fears that the company > >itself proclaims to be invalid. And who is to say more Greenpeace demands > >won't follow if this one is met? In Europe, the organization has recently > >started demanding that even dog food be free of genetically modified > >organisms. But Gerber officials want to get out in front of the > >competition on the issue. > > > >And they can't take a chance, says Gerber's vice president for research, > >Jan Relford. "The parents trust us; if they don't trust us, we are out of > >business," he says. So he supports the supplier changes even though he > >says the scientific evidence so far supporting the safety of genetically > >altered crops is "2,000-to-nothing." > > > >Although the FDA says it "has no information of any health effects with > >foods derived from genetic engineering," Greenpeace's point is that their > >long-term effects -- on health and the environment -- simply aren't >known. > >The organization cites various scientists and institutions, including the > >British Medical Association, which has publicly expressed concern about > >bioengineered foods. "Some of the effects may be subtle," says Martha > >Herbert, a pediatric neurologist in Boston who supports Greenpeace's > >campaign. "The problem with studying this is that the effects may be > >long-term." > > > >In the U.S., Greenpeace is by no means the potent force it is in Europe. > >There, armies of staffers and volunteers can target large corporations in > >a flash, hooking up with numerous well-connected political allies to form > >what some regard as an environmental fear brigade. > > > >In the U.S., Greenpeace has only several dozen staffers and is typically > >on the fringe of political discourse; its reputation was grist for an > >episode of the TV comedy "Seinfeld" a few years ago. Greenpeace made > >little headway in a previous effort to call attention to genetically > >modified crops, when activists went to Iowa in 1996, donned biohazard > >suits and spray-painted pink a field of soybeans. > > > >Infant Formula > > > >Mr. Margulis has had better luck, by shrewdly homing in on the >potentially > >emotional issue of baby-food safety, as his Greenpeace colleagues did > >earlier in Europe. "I am not going to be disingenuous," says Mr. >Margulis, > >who recently moved his base of operations to Baltimore. Baby food >"pressed > >so many buttons. We picked it because people are going to be concerned > >about what they are feeding their kids." Figuring the time is ripe to > >import Europe's concerns to the U.S., he says, "I have no qualms in > >saying, yes, I hope people do get very upset." > > > >In Europe, Greenpeace has had considerable success on this front. Last > >summer, it confronted executives of Novartis's Swiss baby-food line, > >Galactina, asking them point blank if it contained any genetically > >modified ingredients. Within 24 hours, Novartis blinked, saying it would > >yank certain products off Swiss grocery-store shelves. In recent months, > >it has made Greenpeace a firm promise that new Galactina products would >be > >free of genetically altered ingredients. > > > >But Galactina is tiny. It sells only three million jars of baby food a > >year. Gerber produces 5.5 million per day in the U.S. and has U.S. sales > >of $700 million annually, plus $300 million abroad. > > > >Buoyed by this success, Greenpeace launched a similar campaign in the >U.S. > >late last year. To run it, the group hired Mr. Margulis, a peace-studies > >graduate of the University of California at Berkeley. Unlike some > >more-radical Greenpeace veterans, he has had only two arrests growing out > >of environmental protests. His most flamboyant act to date: In Colombia, > >to protest against strawberries modified with the gene of a flounder (for > >its cold tolerance), he dressed up as a berry with fishy eyes. > > > >Collecting Samples > > > >The campaign started slowly. The owner of Savoy, a restaurant in the SoHo > >section of New York, hosted a lunchtime news conference to denounce > >genetically modified food, attended by a group of star chefs, some of >them > >French. The event was largely unnoticed, but Mr. Margulis, a former >pastry > >chef himself, formed a useful bond with the chefs. > > > >Then one day this spring, Mr. Margulis went to New York-area supermarkets > >and bought $5 to $10 worth of baby foods, from Gerber, Beech-Nut and > >Heinz's Earth's Best. Elsewhere he picked up two kinds of liquid feeding > >formula for the elderly and disabled, one of them made by a different >unit > >of Novartis. He shipped some of the samples to Britain for testing by RHM > >Technology, a laboratory experienced at detecting minute amounts of > >genetically modified material. > > > >Within a couple of weeks, the results came back. The lab found no > >genetically modified ingredients in the jars of baby food. But Gerber's > >dry cereal for babies contained modified corn and soy, and the formulas > >for the elderly also had bioengineered soy, Greenpeace said. > > > >Rather than confronting companies right away, Mr. Margulis faxed letters > >to several U.S. baby-food makers posing questions and seeking quick > >responses. He later called Gerber's Mr. Relford in Fremont, Mich., where > >Gerber is based, and left a voice message. > > > >Although Gerber appeared to be ignoring Mr. Margulis, it wasn't. His "to > >the CEO" letter was making its way up the corporate hierarchy, ultimately > >sparking debate at the highest levels of Novartis, a $21 billion > >corporation whose largest business is pharmaceuticals. For its CEO, >Daniel > >Vasella, who is a veteran observer of Greenpeace tactics in Europe as >well > >as a physician, the letter was a sign that Greenpeace would try to strike > >in his lucrative U.S. market. > > > >It did. On June 18, Mr. Margulis disclosed the British lab report. > >Venerable Gerber was guilty of using genetically engineered food in its > >dry baby cereal, he told reporters. The news conference took place at > >another trendy New York restaurant, Avenue, whose owners had begun > >marketing their own brand of organic baby food -- at $2.95 a jar, five > >times Gerber's price. Some star chefs were again in attendance. > > > >Greenpeace's report accused Gerber of using "altered corn" in its cereal, > >which it said "produces a bacterial toxin, Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt)." > >The report said that when "genetically altered Bt plants grow, they > >produce the toxin, which is an insecticide farmers use to ward off >certain > >pests." It also said that soybeans in Gerber baby food were grown with "a > >toxic weed killer." > > > >Gerber doesn't dispute Greenpeace's essential finding about the presence > >of ingredients from genetically modified crops in some of its products. > >But Novartis's Mr. Piergallini, a former boss of Gerber, angrily >dismisses > >the notion that genetically modified corn produces dangerous toxins, > >calling this "ludicrous and inflammatory." > > > >Headquarters Debate > > > >While maintaining a cool outward stance, Novartis and Gerber soon were > >abuzz with debate. Mr. Relford, a scientist and Midwesterner, believed > >customers wouldn't be swayed by Greenpeace -- that sound science and > >Gerber's reputation would prevail. At the same time, he wanted the >company > >to be ready to act in case circumstances suddenly changed. Mr. >Piergallini > >also doubted that European food attitudes would catch on in the U.S., but > >he thought that to be safe, Gerber should quickly take pre-emptive >action. > > > >Dr. Vasella, the Novartis CEO -- having been through the Galactina affair > >and having witnessed Greenpeace's publicity-grabbing tactics for years in > >Europe -- pushed to find an immediate solution at Gerber. And three weeks > >ago, the board of Novartis's U.S. arm agreed that Gerber should move > >aggressively to deal with the problem. One key thing on the table: > >possibly relabeling products to indicate when any of them may still > >contain tiny amounts of genetically modified crops. Some ingredients come > >from suppliers that handle both organic and genetically modified crops, >so > >that minute traces of the bioengineered stuff may show up in even the > >"purest" foods. > > > >But there are questions as to what Gerber's labels can say about > >genetically modified ingredients -- either their presence or their > >absence. That's because the FDA doesn't see any health risk in these > >ingredients. James Maryanski, the FDA's biotechnology coordinator, says > >that companies are free to include optional information if it is truthful > >and doesn't mislead the consumer. But "if someone wants to say that a > >product was or was not developed by genetic engineering, and if that > >information implies to consumers that a competing product ... wasn't as > >safe, that would be a misleading label." He adds that the FDA hasn't > >developed specific guidelines regarding label mentions of genetically > >modified foods. > > > >To figure out what to do, Gerber will consult a pool of non-Greenpeace > >environmentalists who are concerned about the long-term effects of > >bioengineered foods, and of consumer groups concerned about food safety. > > > >New Suppliers > > > >In the past two weeks, meanwhile, Gerber has moved to rid its products of > >genetically modified corn used in various cereals and other foods. Mr. > >Piergallini says it is will use mostly organic corn. While the new supply > >will probably cost twice as much -- raising corn without weed killer or > >insecticide is labor intensive and tends to produce lower per-acre yields > >-- corn is used in relatively small quantities, so the move will add only > >several hundred thousand dollars a year of expense. Once the switch is > >made, the labels will probably say "organic corn" or "organic corn >flour." > > > >The company is also switching soybean suppliers. Soon, its baby products > >will use mostly organic soy, even though these aren't easy to find in > >large quantities. Novartis's objective is to take the lead in the > >baby-food industry in moving away from genetically modified ingredients > >and set the "gold standard" for measuring and labeling these ingredients, > >Mr. Piergallini says. > > > >Will the bioengineered-food issue take hold in the U.S. as it has in > >Europe? "I can't bet -- I plan," Gerber's Mr. Relford says. "If this > >becomes an issue, we will be ready." > > > > > >Copyright c 1999 Dow Jones ? Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. > >** > > > >================================= > > > > > >*** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material > >is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior >interest > >in receiving the included information for research and educational > >purposes. *** > > > >========================== > > > > > > > >Charles Margulis > >Greenpeace Genetic Engineering Campaign > >1817 Gough Street > >Baltimore, MD 21231 > >tel 410-327-3770 > >fax 410-327-2990 > >charles.margulis@dialb.greenpeace.org > >www.greenpeace.org > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 15:39:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17621 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA24877 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA24853 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA16618; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22589; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:53:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:53:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Nathan/Rachna Boone cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Jeff Ishee Subject: Re: Avery vs. Salatin/Installment #1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1947 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture Turn the taped debate in a collection of .wav or .mp3 sound files and upload them to a website. I already have these resources set up at: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/permaculture.html - look for the upload area - - the download area is there also This method of file transfer bypasses the need to use ftp for u/l or d/l. No muss or fuss, just upload the files then view or download/save them to your computer. I would be willing to create a special page with the ul/dl tools on it for this purpose - let me know if you want it. it could reside at: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/A-S.Debate.html or whatever you want to call it. On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, Nathan/Rachna Boone wrote: > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:35:29 -0600 (MDT) > From: Nathan/Rachna Boone > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Jeff Ishee > Subject: Re: Avery vs. Salatin/Installment #1 > > Dear Jeff, > > Thanks for the response. Would you offer an at-cost email version > to saneteers? I appreciate your transcribing costs, but am hoping that we > can cut out copying and postage to save paper and money. > > Thanks, > > Nathan > > > >Nathan and Saneteers, > > > > Great idea, but there are still costs in paying a receptionist for six > >hours of transcribing the Avery/Salatin debate. If I were with a > >university or government agency, then I could simply assign the project > >of transcription to someone lower on the totem pole. But our radio > >station is not a university or a government agency. This is real > >world/real costs. > > > >Sincerely, > > > >Jeff Ishee > >Farm Director/WSVA Radio > >P.O. Box 752 > >Harrisonburg, VA 22801 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 15:55:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17894 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA26781 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:59:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA26777 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.172] (li-ppp07.hevanet.com [204.119.60.172]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA19393; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908021858.LAA19393@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:45:46 -0700 Subject: FW: Technology Spurs Alfalfa Genome Mapping From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1948 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Technology Spurs Alfalfa Genome Mapping Date: Mon, Aug 2, 1999, 7:08 AM STORY LEAD: Technology Spurs Alfalfa Genome Mapping ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Jan Suszkiw, (301) 504-1630, jsuszkiw@asrr.arsusda.gov August 2, 1999 ----------- Using computer technology to magnify light microscope images, scientists are getting the closest look yet at the chromosome housing for alfalfa's genes. The advance opens the door to genome mapping of alfalfa's 32 chromosomes for traits like winter hardiness, stand persistence, and resistance to pests like potato leaf hoppers. Alfalfa is among America's most widely grown crops, generating over $6 billion annually, primarily as hay. Yet compared to corn or soybeans, less is known about its complex genetic make-up, slowing breeding efforts. Over the past 30 years, for example, alfalfa's average yield has only increased by about one percent. Part of the problem also stems from the fact that alfalfa plants are autotetraploid, meaning their traits are governed by genes residing on four chromosomes instead of two. The legume's chromosomes are also hard to distinguish, and barely visible under a microscope. Or so it was until scientists Gary Bauchan and Azhar Hossain tackled the problem. With help from a Maryland firm, Loats Associates, they attached a light microscope to a computer imaging system at their Beltsville, Md., Soybean and Alfalfa Research Lab, operated by the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency. The result: a 10,000-fold increase in magnification, use of false-color, and the precise identification and measurement of the chromosomes' length--key to karyotyping, or arranging them from largest to smallest. Along the chromosomes' "arms," scientists observed thick bands of heterochromatin, material composed of DNA and protein. Like chromosomal roadblocks, the bands can impede the exchange of genes during breeding. One hope is that falcata alfalfas, which contain relatively few heterochromatin bands, will help breeders introduce new traits from wild species to domestic cultivars, broadening their genetic base. A longer story about the advance appears in this month's issue of "Agricultural Research," an ARS publication also on the Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/aug99/gene0899.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Gary Bauchan, ARS Soybean and Alfalfa Research Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-6649, fax (301) 504-5169, gbauchan@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 15:55:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17898 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA06277 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:15:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA06211 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA10072; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA07180; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:16:14 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:15:53 -0700 To: j scott maxwell , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: Re: 2,4-Dinitrophenol Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1949 >Hi, >I haven't posted here before but have been following the discussions for a >few months now and wanted to share some information that is relevant to >the discussion of whether 2,4- Dinitrophenol is a pesticide or not and its >relative toxicity. > >According to my 1989 Farm Chemicals Handbook, 2,4-Dinitrophenol is indeed >a pesticide sold under the trade name Chemox PE. It is listed as an >insecticide/acaricide and fungicide. As for toxicity it is relatively >toxic, judging from the oral LD50 value (the quantity of material needed >to kill 50% of the test animals) of 30mg/kg. By way of comparison, >the herbicide 2,4-D has an oral LD50 of 375 mg/kg, and chlorpyrifos ( a >very widely used insecticide) has an LD50 of about 100mg/kg. I don't know >if this material is still available or if it has been banned since 1989. No products containing 2,4-Dinitrophenol are currently registered as pesticides with the US Environmental Protection Agency. 13 products have been registered in the past. No products have been registered in California since 1991. No products containing 2,4-Dinitrophenol appear to have been registered under the trade name Chemox PE. Four Chemox PE products were previously registered in the U. S.; they contained various salts of BUTYL-4,6-DINITROPHENOL, also known as dinoseb. **************************************** Kathy Brunetti, Senior Land and Water Analyst California Department of Pesticide Regulation 830 K Street, Sacramento, California, USA 95814 voice (916) 324-4100, FAX (916) 324-4088 Our Web site: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 17:07:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA19251 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01607 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:00:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01477 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:00:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0FFU00O7OQ90FW@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0FFU00JNBPHUD0@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 852567C1.0066DFE3 ; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:43:39 -0400 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:42:08 -0400 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1183 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <852567C1.00669C20.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1950 Re: Two Mindsets Neither is a good proponent of their positions. Dennis Avery's knowledge of science is pitiful and the other man's positions suggest a wistfulness for the era preceding the Age of Enlightenment. Furthermore, the debate suggests that there are but two sides on the question of the preferred nature of agriculture production. That's absurd as well. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 17:34:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA19884 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA06542 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:55:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wintermute.essex1.com (wintermute.essex1.com [206.31.1.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA06350 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lorin ([206.31.15.217]) by wintermute.essex1.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54437U8000L800S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:59:04 -0500 Message-ID: <001101bedd29$b3effe00$d90f1fce@lorin> From: "Lorin Unterberger" To: Subject: Re: organic chicken feed recipies. Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:57:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1951 Hi folks I was wondering if anyone has an recipe for organic chicken feed. i have alot of organic soybeans and the rest would have to be grown or found in reasonable quantities. thanks Lorin Unterberger Pine Creek Organic Farm Northwestern Illinois To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 18:04:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA20522 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA25363 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:27:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA25294 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu by chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0:JLF-19970113) id RAA11054; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:24:46 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990802172630.006f2e84@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:26:30 -0400 To: sanet From: John Lozier Subject: Re: spirituality . . . art . . . and Thinking Outside the Box . . . In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990731151722.00a2a6f0@mail.clarityconnect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1952 "Thinking Outside the Box" is the theme of the conference of IFSA, International Farming Systems Association, to be held October 20-23 in Guelph, Ontario. I'm planning to be there. Anyone else? Check www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/. Spirituality is a theme that is outside the academic box. Art, including music, is another. Some of you saw my act in Toronto, at the AFHVS conference in June. I am interested in using traditional folk harp music to promote sustainable agriculture. How? By charm. That is, by enlarging the comfort zone for dealing with challenging information. Does it work? You be the judge. As a street musician, I've been known to rush in where angels fear to tread, but talking about spirituality on this list is beyond my comfort zone. However, at the Guelph meeting, I'd like to hear what others are saying about spirituality and agriculture. So please speak to me when you are in Guelph. You'll have no trouble finding me, I'll be the guy with the harp. John Lozier harper for harmony jlozier@wvu.edu jlists@wvu.edu jl@harpingforharmony.org www.harpingforharmony.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 18:10:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA20636 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA28320 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA28311 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-13-4.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.196]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA06378; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:24:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199908022124.QAA06378@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Lorin Unterberger" , Subject: Re: organic chicken feed recipies. Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:33:53 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1953 Soybeans need to be roasted or extruded before they are fed. Best of luck, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer ---------- > From: Lorin Unterberger > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: organic chicken feed recipies. > Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 3:57 PM > > Hi folks > I was wondering if anyone has an recipe for organic chicken feed. i have > alot of organic soybeans and the rest would have to be grown or found in > reasonable quantities. > thanks > Lorin Unterberger > Pine Creek Organic Farm > Northwestern Illinois > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 19:45:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22729 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 19:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA28628 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 19:08:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f219.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.219]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA28611 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 19:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 64848 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 1999 23:07:40 -0000 Message-ID: <19990802230740.64847.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.108.9.129 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:07:40 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.108.9.129] From: "Emily Young" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:07:40 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1954 Hello all- I am wondering.... to what extent do chains such as Whole Foods, Wild Oats and their many subsidiaries actually support small organic farmers? Where are these stores getting their organic produce? Their websites claim that they are supporting small farmers by featuring their produce and also by helping farmers in transition by putting a transition label on certain produce items. Where do you see these chains fitting into the movement for sustainable agriculture in terms of consumer education and also in terms of direct support for small farmers? Thanks for your thoughts, Emily _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 20:58:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA23969 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA06962 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:07:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA06879 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp140.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.140]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B6BE6175D; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008101bedd43$a4347080$8c9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Emily Young" , References: <19990802230740.64847.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:03:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1955 I am a real small grower and sell to Whole Foods . they are a big help to me. they always pay on time. they have been supporting organic growers from their start. I sold to Mrs. Gooch and then Mrs. Gooch was sold to Whole Foods and they still buy from me. Same old great bunch of folks. I like them. Not every one can make the farmers market. You have to send them your best but once they know they can count on u too have good product they are good customers. This is one small organic grower that has been dealing with them for a long time and I have no complants. In fact I am greatful they are there. check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Emily Young To: Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 4:07 PM > Hello all- > > I am wondering.... to what extent do chains such as Whole Foods, Wild Oats > and > their many subsidiaries actually support small organic farmers? Where are > these stores getting their organic produce? Their websites claim that they > are supporting small farmers by featuring their produce and also by helping > farmers in transition by putting a transition label on certain produce > items. > > Where do you see these chains fitting into the movement for sustainable > agriculture in terms of consumer education and also in terms of direct > support for small farmers? > > Thanks for your thoughts, > > Emily > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 21:23:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA24657 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA28213 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:40:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA28154 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 20:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d02-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.2]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA09646; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:39:56 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , "Lorin Unterberger" , Subject: RE: organic chicken feed recipes. Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:44:05 +1000 Message-ID: <001001bedd49$49d68820$023325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199908022124.QAA06378@billman.kuntrynet.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1956 I wonder if the highest value of the soy beans might not be as a rotation, to broadcast into tired crop areas, for nitrogen fixing, before allowing the poultry to free range through the weeds and soy bean plants [not aware of any toxicity in the plants]. Aside from Greg's comment on treating beans before feeding with them, legumes tend to be around 35% protein, and chicks, growers and layers need protein value declining form about 17 to 13% or so, so soy beans would be a good protein lift. Generally, our birds have a great preference for variety. They go crazy over the occasional treat of what is sold here as pigeon mix, with a protein content around 25%, and with big variety of seeds. With some chicken breeds, e.g. Isa Brown, you have to be careful, as high protein diets tend to produce bird-busting big eggs. Hence my thought that the highest value of the soy beans might be to feed them to the soil, allow them to help strengthen fallow ground with their strong growth and nitrogen fixing, before running the chickens through as clean-up and manuring tractors. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 21:51:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25051 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA09260 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:01:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA09204 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d02-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.2]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA12238; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:00:28 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Kathy Brunetti" , "j scott maxwell" , Subject: RE: 2,4-Dinitrophenol Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:04:37 +1000 Message-ID: <001101bedd4c$28063120$023325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1957 Cathy Brunetti wrote: "No products containing 2,4-Dinitrophenol are currently registered as pesticides with the US Environmental Protection Agency. 13 products have been registered in the past. No products have been registered in California since 1991. No products containing 2,4-Dinitrophenol appear to have been registered under the trade name Chemox PE. Four Chemox PE products were previously registered in the U. S.; they contained various salts of BUTYL-4,6-DINITROPHENOL, also known as dinoseb." Well, on another discussion list, someone offered this unnerving advice recently (Cathy, glad your comment on the relationship between product registration and this assertion that the product is on the shelves) to a guy who wanted to get rid of clover in a lawn: "This is an easy one [someone wrote], 2,4-D is the thing you need. It can be found in most over the counter weed killers and will do a nice job on clover and all it's cousins along with most broad-leaf weeds. Ortho brand Weed-B-Gone uses this as the main ingredient. Shop around and watch the % of active ingredient to determine the best buy for the money. If you have a small in-town lawn, a quart of the Ortho product may do the job, however, it is at a low enough concentration to POSSIBLY require more than one application or strengthening the mix. I buy my 2,4-D from Cenex Agronomy centers and it comes in 48% for the Amine solution. Mixed according to the label, the spray is much more concentrated than that from the Ortho (home use) mix. That is why it is more effective. [hey. I'm continuing quoting here, this is not my view] "Having said this, it is extreamly important that you know what you are doing when spraying herbicides. Properly used, chemicals are benificial and not harmfull to the environment in any way. Misused, and they make a mess. This is true for any chemical, if you don't believe me, pour a cup of table salt on the lawn in one spot and see what happens. If you can, try to find someone to demonstrate the proper way to mix, and apply 2,4-D. If this is not possible, mix a small batch in a spray bottle (one you are willing to not ever use for anything but herbicides) and do some small test spots to see how it works. If you use a strong enough mix, a light misting is all that is needed, do not spray enough to cause the mix to run off the clover and drip on the ground (this is just wasteful of the mix and your money). You should see results in 24 hours and dead clover in a few days. Give it a couple of weeks and re-apply to any missed areas. This guy added adding a p.s. to his message: "(I just mounted a 25 gal sprayer on a homemade trailer to pull behind my tractor to spray weeds on 3.5 acres)" In replying to this, at some length, incurring some red necked wrath, I included the following: "and another bit from http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/cancer/24d.txt [quoting the formal Product Infromation Sheet, which manufacturers are obliged to issue for all chemical products] ...CHRONIC (LONG-TERM) ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS Chronic toxic effects may include shortened lifespan, reproductive problems, lower fertility, and changes in appearance or behavior. Chronic effects can be seen long after first exposure(s) to a toxic chemical. 2,4-D has moderate chronic toxicity to aquatic life. Insufficient data are available to evaluate or predict the long- term effects of 2,4-D to plants, birds, or land animals. WATER SOLUBILITY 2,4-D is highly soluble in water. Concentrations of 1,000 milligrams and more will mix with a liter of water. DISTRIBUTION AND PERSISTENCE IN THE ENVIRONMENT 2,4-D is moderately persistent in water, with a half-life of between 20 to 200 days. The half-life of a pollutant is the amount of time it takes for one-half of the chemical to be degraded. About 91.7% of 2,4-D will eventually end up in water; about 3.3% will end up in aquatic sediments; about 3.5% will end up in terrestrial soil; and the rest will end up in the air. BIOACCUMULATION IN AQUATIC ORGANISMS Some substances increase in concentration, or bioaccumulate, in living organisms as they breathe contaminated air, drink contaminated water, or eat contaminated food. These chemicals can become concentrated in the tissues and internal organs of animals and humans. The concentration of 2,4-D found in fish tissues is expected to be much higher than the average concentration of 2,4-D in the water from which the fish was taken. ...." Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 2 23:11:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA26013 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA02984 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:28:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA02969 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-47ppp92.epix.net [209.74.47.92]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999072601/PL) with ESMTP id WAA17965; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A655A1.BBD651D2@epix.net> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 22:36:17 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matt Kline CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: No Till/Cover Crops and the Groff Field Day References: <014201beda1c$f3330860$8a11440c@att.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EF5B39931CE92427A99F7B72" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1958 --------------EF5B39931CE92427A99F7B72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sanet, I wanted to get in on this no-till/cover crop discussion earlier, but due to our field day preparations and constant irrigation requirements, I was unable to do so. My 100% no-till system is unique in that I use little pesticides. Cover crops, crop rotation, and long-term no-till are the keys to making this work. I personally believe the trade off of using some herbicides is more sustainable then tilling my soil for weed control and subjecting it to erosion. (I have some slopes up to 17%) The other documented benefits are increased OM- 2.7%-4.0%, soil aggregate stability has tripled, soil microbial biomass has tripled as well, and a whole host of other improvements we are just begining to understand. I'm continually amazed at the dozens of organic farmers and the 100's of others who have seen my soil and rave about the "life" in it. Matt Kline wrote: > I had the opportunity to visit Cedar Meadow Farm yesterday for the > Field Day. The Groff family (Steve is a Saneter), and supporting > agencies hosted an informative display. As an organic farmer I do not > agree with the practice of herbiciding cover crops, but the soil pit > profile exposed in the no till field was far healthier than any I have > seen in conventional farming. Dr Ray Weil, and Joel Gruver, (U of MD) have opened my eyes to the realm of the underground. At the field day we dug this soil pit in a processing tomato field and found tomato roots 40" below the soil surface! Many earthworm channels were seen and the quality of the subsoil was remarkable, according to Dr Ray Weil. > The rolling stalk chopper and no till vegetable transplanter (family > labor intensive) had impressive improvements over conventional > equipment. This was a positive multi-cultural event, with good > discussions and exchange of information. We had 357 people at our field day, which is truly a statement to the interest of sustainable agriculture. Was real pleased to have SARE's National Director, Jill Auburn as one of the speakers. > Rodale Institute also had one soybean trial field - cover crops > without herbicides. I no-tilled this food grade soybean trial into a cover of hairy vetch and rye, rolled it twice and planted 15" beans. The plot received no herbicides and was almost weed free. Some of the techniques I use are applicable to organic farms. I sure have learned alot from organic farmers! I also aggressively try and influence conventional agriculture. Conventional agriculture needs to SEE something that works, rather then hear an idealistic theory. For more info, check out our website: http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com -- Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA --------------EF5B39931CE92427A99F7B72 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sanet,
    I wanted to get in on this no-till/cover crop discussion earlier, but due to our field day preparations and constant irrigation requirements, I was unable to do so.
    My 100% no-till system is unique in that I use little pesticides. Cover crops, crop rotation, and long-term no-till are the keys to making this work. I personally believe the trade off of using some herbicides is more sustainable then tilling my soil for weed control and subjecting it to erosion. (I have some slopes up to 17%) The other documented benefits are increased OM- 2.7%-4.0%, soil aggregate stability has tripled, soil microbial biomass has tripled as well, and a whole host of other improvements we are just begining to understand. I'm continually amazed at the dozens of organic farmers and the 100's of others who have seen my soil and rave about the "life" in it.

    Matt Kline wrote:

    I had the opportunity to visit Cedar Meadow Farm yesterday for the Field Day.  The Groff family (Steve is a Saneter), and supporting agencies hosted an informative display.  As an organic farmer I do not agree with the practice of herbiciding cover crops, but the soil pit profile exposed in the no till field was far healthier than any I have seen in conventional farming.
    Dr Ray Weil, and Joel Gruver, (U of MD) have opened my eyes to the realm of the underground. At the field day we dug this soil pit in a processing tomato field and found tomato roots 40" below the soil surface! Many earthworm channels were seen and the quality of the subsoil was remarkable, according to Dr Ray Weil.
    The rolling stalk chopper and no till vegetable transplanter (family labor intensive) had impressive improvements over conventional equipment.  This was a positive multi-cultural event, with good discussions and exchange of information.
    We had 357 people at our field day, which is truly a statement to the interest of sustainable agriculture. Was real pleased to have SARE's National Director, Jill Auburn as one of the speakers.
     Rodale Institute also had one soybean trial field - cover crops without herbicides.
    I no-tilled this food grade soybean trial into a cover of hairy vetch and rye, rolled it twice and planted 15" beans. The plot received no herbicides and was almost weed free.

    Some of the techniques I use are applicable to organic farms. I sure have learned alot from organic farmers! I also aggressively try and influence conventional agriculture. Conventional agriculture needs to SEE something that works, rather then hear an idealistic theory.
    For more info, check out our website: http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com
    --
    Steve Groff

    "Enhancing the Environment"          http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/
    Cedar Meadow Farm
    679 Hilldale Road
    Holtwood, PA 17532 USA
      --------------EF5B39931CE92427A99F7B72-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 00:05:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26858 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA04026 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:18:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA03964 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-15-10.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.250]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA21010; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:09:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199908030309.WAA21010@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Argall Family" , "Lorin Unterberger" , Subject: Re: organic chicken feed recipes. Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:18:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1959 Why can't they genetically engineer a soybean plant with no trypsin inhibitors? :) Seriously though, ladino clover as a ground reconditioner and as a source of protein for non-ruminants can not be beat. Soybeans as a grazing crop have a very narrow harvesting window. Been there and done that on ones that the weeds got away from me on. I would think brassicas would be a better choice for annuals. Is anybody doing any work on a soybean plant that can be fed without making the bean crushers rich (ie ADM, price fixer to the world and the likes)? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range hog farmer ---------- > From: Argall Family > To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp ; Lorin Unterberger ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: organic chicken feed recipes. > Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 7:44 PM > > I wonder if the highest value of the soy beans might not be as a rotation, > to broadcast into tired crop areas, for nitrogen fixing, before allowing the > poultry to free range through the weeds and soy bean plants [not aware of > any toxicity in the plants]. > > Aside from Greg's comment on treating beans before feeding with them, > legumes tend to be around 35% protein, and chicks, growers and layers need > protein value declining form about 17 to 13% or so, so soy beans would be a > good protein lift. Generally, our birds have a great preference for variety. > They go crazy over the occasional treat of what is sold here as pigeon mix, > with a protein content around 25%, and with big variety of seeds. With some > chicken breeds, e.g. Isa Brown, you have to be careful, as high protein > diets tend to produce bird-busting big eggs. Hence my thought that the > highest value of the soy beans might be to feed them to the soil, allow them > to help strengthen fallow ground with their strong growth and nitrogen > fixing, before running the chickens through as clean-up and manuring > tractors. > > Dennis > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 00:08:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26905 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA00435 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:11:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA00403 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:14:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "sanet-mg (E-mail)" Cc: "'lhalprin@ucdavis.edu'" Subject: FW: UC SAREP newsletter on Web Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:14:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1960 -----Original Message----- From: Lyra Halprin [mailto:lhalprin@ucdavis.edu] Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 1:06 PM To: aclark@nal.usda.gov Subject: UC SAREP newsletter on Web Andy: I'd appreciate if you could send the following message to sanet-mg. Thanks so much for your help. Lyra -------------------- The Summer 1999 issue of the statewide University of California Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program's (SAREP) triquarterly newsletter "Sustainable Agriculture" is now available at SAREP's Web site, http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu This edition includes: *From the Director: SAREP In A New Century *SAREP Funds Methyl Bromide Alternatives *SAREP Funds Biologically Integrated Farming Systems Grants: Strawberries, Dairy/Forage *Apprenticeship in Ecological Horticulture at UC Santa Cruz *SAREP Awards New Production, Public Policy Grants *Western SARE Conference on Innovative Farming and Ranching Systems Set for March 2000 *Technical Reviews: Sources of Pesticide Use Data in California *Resources *Sources of Funding *Calendar To receive a free hard copy version of any issue from the 11 years of "Sustainable Agriculture" contact: SAREP University of California One Shields Ave. Davis, CA 95616-8716 email: sarep@ucdavis.edu phone: (530) 752-7556 Lyra Halprin Senior Public Information Officer University of California Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education Program (UC SAREP) Davis, CA 95616 Voice: (530) 752-8664 Fax: (530) 754-8550 lhalprin@ucdavis.edu Award Winning Web Site: http://www.sarep.ucdavis.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 00:08:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA26920 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA08256 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:22:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA08153 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:22:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-15-10.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.250]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA21159; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:12:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199908030312.WAA21159@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Emily Young" , Subject: Re: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:21:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1961 They are not supporting small farmers or organic agriculture in the Midwest. PERIOD! In my opinion they are a marketing gimmick. They know the right words and key phrases but too often their actions speak louder than words. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer ---------- > From: Emily Young > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: > Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 6:07 PM > > Hello all- > > I am wondering.... to what extent do chains such as Whole Foods, Wild Oats > and > their many subsidiaries actually support small organic farmers? Where are > these stores getting their organic produce? Their websites claim that they > are supporting small farmers by featuring their produce and also by helping > farmers in transition by putting a transition label on certain produce > items. > > Where do you see these chains fitting into the movement for sustainable > agriculture in terms of consumer education and also in terms of direct > support for small farmers? > > Thanks for your thoughts, > > Emily > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 00:39:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA27403 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA17204 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:49:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from thehub.knight-hub.com (root@thehub.knight-hub.com [205.177.16.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA17102 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Default (dialas-234.knight-hub.com [205.252.164.234]) by thehub.knight-hub.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA30538 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:49:28 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:49:28 -0400 Message-Id: <199908030249.WAA30538@thehub.knight-hub.com> X-Sender: auburn@knight-hub.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Walt and Jill Auburn Subject: Postdoc opportunity in sustainable ag at UC Davis Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA17119 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1962 Saneteers, this is a position working with a great team of folks on cutting-edge work that I was fortunate enough to have a small hand in during conception and early infancy...before I left UCD for USDA. Contact Karen rather than me for details, but take it from me that it's worth considering for anyone who has the skills noted and an interest in working with some wonderful people. Jill Auburn USDA-CSREES-SARE (from home account) > >Postdoctoral Scholar Opportunity > >Dept. of Agricultural and Resource Economics >Division of Agriculture and Natural Resources >University of California - Davis > > > >Apply by August 25, 1999 > >DESCRIPTION: Non-tenure track, full time temporary position (initial >appointment for two years) funded through a three year grant. Deadline >August 25 or until filled. Successful candidate will become part of an >established multidisciplinary research team assessing the opportunities >and barriers to adoption of sustainable agricultural practices from >economic, biological and sociological perspectives. > >RESPONSIBILITIES: Position will plan and perform applied research, >conduct in person interviews, mail surveys, and statistical analyses. >Position will evaluate economic and biological performance of >alternative farm management styles. Will direct and coordinate >activities in collaboration with county Cooperative Extension farm >advisors, other researchers, farmers and representatives from nonprofit >organizations. > >QUALIFICATIONS: Ph. D. in Agricultural Economics, Economics, Sociology >or related field; an MS degree with equivalent experience will be >considered. Experience in applied research required. Must also have >demonstrated ability to communicate clearly both verbally and in writing >with academics, farmers, industry members and other members of the >public. Strong computer skills including statistical analyses are >essential. Must have excellent organizational skills and be able to >work independently as well as in collaboration with the research team. >A valid drivers license and ability to travel in connection with the >research project are required. > >Submit letter of application, resume, and three references to Dr. Karen >Klonsky, Dept. of Agricultural and Resource Economics, University of >California Davis, One Shields Ave., Davis, CA 95616. > > > > > >Dr. Karen Klonsky >Dept. of Agricultural and Resource Economics >University of California >One Shields Blvd. >Davis, California 95616 > >phone: (530) 752 3563 >fax: (530) 752 5614 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 00:54:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA27620 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA02731 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:04:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA02673 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:07:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "sanet-mg (E-mail)" Cc: "'loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU'" , "'mfirestone@jsi.com'" Subject: Re: Seeking a reference-my last ditch effort Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:07:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1963 A reply about The National Organization of Raw Materials which did not make it past the non-human sanet gatekeepers... The URL listed is not correct, and I could not find a web page for the organization. Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 1:41 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mary Firestone > Newsgroups: apc.bitl.sanet Subject: Re: Seeking a reference-my last ditch effort Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 13:32:42 -0400 Organization: Institute for Global Communications To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU The National Organization of Raw Materials has a website http://www.normeconomics.com and lists as a contact person their president: Randy Cook 680 E 5 Point Highway Charlotte, MI 48813 Phone: 517-543-0111 E-Mail: rccook@compuserve.com loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU wrote: > > Dear Sanet folk, > > My research, and all of my thinking about sustainability, involves flows > of material and energy. Unfortunately, much more economic data is > available than the more commodity-specific information in units of tons > or bushels or atoms of carbon. One reference recommended to me simply > cannot be found. I have been looking high and low, both alone and with > the help of several expert librarians for any leads on the following > publication: > > The Nature of Wealth: Discovering the Physics Within an Economic System > > by Fred Lundgren and Jerome Friemel > National Organization of Raw Materials, Kansas City, Missouri: 1994. > > I can't find the publication, its authors, or this organization. > Assuming it exists, I bet some one of you out there can provide a lead. > I would sure appreciate that, along with any other tips on how to get > (where to look for) information on material flows more generally. > > Somewhat in line with the ongoing discussions, I believe the > dissociation of mass balance from monetary economics makes practically > all our discussions essentially skew lines in space. In particular the > word "efficient." The concept of "efficiency" within economics is at > best unrelated to, and at worst, diametrically opposed to, the > understanding that the physical scientist and the general public attach > to the word. > > Thanks for any help with my reference-locating problem! > > Writing from NJ, where I planted a green manure crop (cowpea and > buckwheat) on June 11 and nary a drop of rain has fallen from that day > to this. > The amazing thing to me is that those darned cowpeas are actually > growing! I can't explain it. Everything else is brown and crunchy. > > Loren M. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 01:28:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA28516 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA02088 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:50:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA02023 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0030.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.30]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01048; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A6593B.B7E4D12C@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 19:51:39 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Research links breast cancer, beef hormones References: <3.0.6.32.19990802102251.007d1930@crocker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1964 Well, there is certainly some reason why cancer now is everywhere, in every family somewhere, and when I was a child, cancer was rare, and so unknown people weren't even sure it wasn't "catching". Every other person now in US gets cancer. What a record. ================= Mark wrote: > I am not endorsing hormones in beef, but when a scientist says > > >"There is no other reason to explain it," Sonnenschein said in an > >interview Friday. > > > > I get a little nervous. Yes, the problems the scientist identifies are > real. And do we really want all these tasty hormones in our burgers? Of > course not. But if there is no other way to explain why women get breast > cancer than hormones in beef, how do you explain Linda McCartney's recent > death from breast cancer? She was a vegetarian for decades. > > I think scienctist can have a lot to offer in these debates. But it is > very easy for advocates on both sides of the issues to find -- and often > pay -- scientists to say what supports their position. It would be better > in the long run to develop a risk analysis than say you must do x or never > do y to avoid the big C. It is more credible to the public (who are > growing skeptical of scientists that say "never eat eggs" and then later > say "eat eggs") and probably more reflective of the reality that there are > a lot of things out there causing illness. Some are what we choose to put > in our mouths, but some are what we breath or drink that are there because > of our industrial society. > > Mark > ---------------------------------------------------- > Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) > An independent non-profit organization. www.buylocalfood.com > > 893 West Street > Amherst MA 01002-5001 > T: 413-559-5338 > F: 413-559-5404 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 09:13:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA05318 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA16652 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:32:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f109.hotmail.com [207.82.250.228]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA16532 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6450 invoked by uid 0); 3 Aug 1999 12:31:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990803123115.6449.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.57 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Aug 1999 05:31:15 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.57] From: "J. S." To: draperj@peak.org Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 05:31:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1965 Might refer you all also to the use of tulip poplars to clean up mercury contaminated sites--they are able to convert it and release it into the air in a less harmful form >From: Jim Draper >To: "Dan Hook" , "Lon J. Rombough" >, "SANET" , >"AGRISYNERGY" >CC: wistyr@comp.uark.edu, rmdraper@laplaza.taos.nm.us, jsdrape@ibm.net, > faym@peak.org >Subject: Re: Lem. Ger. to clean toxic soils >Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 08:12:24 -0700 > > On reading about the use of specially-scented geraniums for ridding soil >of contamination, my reaction was about like that of Dan Hook: what happens >to the contamination? Where do you put the now-contaminated geranium plant >residue (including roots)? It's something like the guy who excavated a hole >for putting a swimming pool in his yard and then wondered what in hell he >was going to do with the dirt --- dig another hole to put it in, and then >on and on and on? > > > >At 08:56 AM 7/31/99 -0400, Dan Hook wrote: > >Interesting. Not allowing anyone to plant normal ordinary scented >geraniums > >that I wouldn't approve of. Question after these geraniums do their job >I > >don't supposed they can be thrown on the compost piles? :) Beth > > > > "Anyone who went out to use these geraniums for phytoremediation would > >>have to come and talk to us [if the patent is granted]," Dr. De Grandis > >>said, adding that anyone who didn't could face legal action. > >> > >> After planting the scented geraniums in contaminated soil samples >from > >>an undisclosed site in Canada and conducting a similar trial at a > >>contaminated Hamilton location, the researchers found that the plants > >>cleaned up toxic soil and flourished in it. > >> > >> "With other methods to get rid of toxic metals in the soil, the soil > >>is left clean, but it's useless," Dr. Saxena said. But by planting > >>lemon-scented geraniums to clean the soil, the same land could later be > >>used for farming, he added. > >> > >> > >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >command > >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 10:01:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA06032 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16427 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:20:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16419 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00653 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-40.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.88]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA01368; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:11:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199908031311.IAA01368@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Nathan/Rachna Boone" Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: organic chicken feed recipes. Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:20:25 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1966 Ladino clover is a cool season pasture component that will run the highest levels of protein and amino acid levels (protein building blocks) of any pasture species. It will easily bloat ruminants if it makes up too much of a percentage of the pasture. I would strongly suggest you go to the University library and pick up some old books on poultry production. An old Morrison Feeds and Feeding, pre 1960, would be a good place to start. I've got several old hog production books around here. I used to have an old poultry production book. The research has already been done to demonstrate the effectiveness of various pasture species in non-ruminant animal production. Ladino clover was clearly the best choice. It might be debatable now days whether alfalfa should be the king of pastures for chickens and hogs because a lot more money has been spent on grazing alfalfa species. A good non-ruminant grazing program in the midwest can be built around clovers, alfalfa, brassicas(primarily rape), and some vegetative grass. Percentage reduction in feed is going to depend a lot on the quality of pasture grown. I've got sows that I haven't fed since January. They gleaned corn fields all winter and are doing just fine now on pasture. We are getting so dry now that I'm going to have to start feeding them. Good luck, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer ---------- > From: Nathan/Rachna Boone > To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp > Subject: Re: organic chicken feed recipes. > Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 11:36 PM > > Dear Greg, > > What's so special about ladino clover and non-ruminants? I'm > working with a pastured poultry project here in New Mexico and I'm all ears > for non-corn/soy feeding options for more protein. > > Have you every looked at cowpeas as a substitute for soy? I don't > have any nutritional info available, but think it could be a solution for > on-farm feed without expensive processing. Any thoughts? > > > Thanks, > > > Nathan Boone > Agricultural Consultant > 200-B Callecita Place > Santa Fe, NM 87501 > Tel: 505.992.0649 > Fax: 508.302.7761 > Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 10:35:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA06924 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA29130 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:43:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29081 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:43:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp140.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.140]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C26D61755; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <018f01beddb5$9eb2f560$8c9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , Subject: Fw: Radio show tomorrow and other stuff Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:39:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1967 check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Clark To: permaculture Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 3:17 AM Subject: Radio show tomorrow and other stuff > Hey folks- > I will be on a local one hour radio show later today (7 p.m.) on KOPN here > in Columbia, MO talking about genetic engineering and I have a couple of > hundred questions. I will limit them to just a few: > > Does anyone have a good list of biotech employees that have gone into the > regulatory agencies? And did they go back to their former jobs when they > got done? > > I am working on a list of companies/countries/agencies/groups that have > passed anti-GMO decisions, does one already exist, or the pieces of one? > > I am also trying to make a list of GMO ingredients in our food supply, does > one, or the pieces of one, already exist? > > I am working on the question from the perspective of arguments used by > apologists of the technology and why they are fallacious. Here are some of > the ones I am working on: > > GMO foods are not significantly different than hybrids. > Difference in kind, not in degree > Not enough to regulate, but enough to patent > GMO foods are safe. > To non-GMO farmers > Genetic drift > Increased prolificacy and promiscuousness of GMO's > Superweeds/superbugs > Genie out of the bottle problem > To humans > Concerns about increased food allergies > Unanticipated problems due to novel combinations > Ethical and religious concerns > Loss of antibiotics due to use of such as gene markers > To the rest of the environment > Terminator/Traitor technology > Monarch Butterfly/Green Lacewing studies > Concerns about damage to bird populations > The difference between not proven unsafe and precautionary principle > GMO foods are well regulated. > By whom? Revolving door problem > Agencies caught between regulating/promoting technologies (witness > USDA's collusion in creation of Terminator) > Regulation divided among different scientists in different departments > of different agencies whose agendas are not always in synch. > We need GMO's to: > Feed the world > Reduce the use of toxic chemicals > Those who resist the expansion of GMO's are: > Tree hugging environmentalist/Luddites > Foreign protectionists > Irrational > > So what am I missing? Please help. I will be at the farm most of tomorrow > picking for my CSA delivery/Wed. market. > Namaste', > Guy Clark > > --- > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: sals@rain.org > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture-75736A@franklin.oit.unc.edu > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 12:05:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08777 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12563 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:59:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA12513 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.160] (ke-ppp10.hevanet.com [198.5.254.160]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA19112; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908031459.HAA19112@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:01:31 -0700 Subject: FW: Villain Fungus Transformed Into Hero From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1968 This item is being forwarded strictly for the interest of the list members. No endorsement, comment, or anything else is intended or implied. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Villain Fungus Transformed Into Hero Date: Tue, Aug 3, 1999, 7:04 AM STORY LEAD: Villain Fungus Transformed Into Hero ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov August 3, 1999 ----------- A fungus that's notorious for producing toxins in stored grains may someday be transformed to do good works such as making vitamins, rubber and drugs, Agricultural Research Service scientists reported at a meeting today. ARS scientists at the National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill., have applied for a patent on a method to insert multiple genes into microorganisms to produce a variety of products. For example, the researchers modified the stored grain-infesting Fusarium sporotrichioides to produce beta-carotene. Until now, genetic engineering of organisms has usually involved introducing one or two highly expressed genes. The scientists presented their findings on the genetic transformation system today at the annual meeting of the Society for Industrial Microbiology in Arlington, Virginia. In the case of F. sporotrichioides, ARS scientist James D. Jones and colleagues systematically synthesized and inserted multi-gene arrays, or cassettes, of genetic material called DNA into the fungus. The NCAUR scientists' first genetically engineered versions of F. sporotrichioides produced a carotenoid called lycopene, the substance that gives red tomatoes their color. Carotenoids, used as food colorants, food supplements and livestock and fish feed additives, also include zeaxanthin and astaxanthin. The scientists envision additional products that someday may be produced by the microbe. These include vitamin E, industrial chemicals called terpenes, biosynthetic rubber and taxol, a drug used in treatment of some malignancies. By using the invention to introduce different gene arrays into F. sporotrichioides, several strains, each capable of producing a specific compound, could be created, according to Timothy D. Leathers, ARS project leader on new uses for ethanol coproducts. Working with just one microbial species would streamline development of technology for making a number of products. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. ---------- Scientific contacts: Timothy D. Leathers and James D. Jones, ARS National Center for Agricultural Utilization Research, Peoria, Ill.; phone (309) 681-6377 (Leathers) and (309) 681-6376 (Jones); fax number (309) 681-6689; leathetd@mail.ncaur.usda.gov and jonesjd@mail.ncaur.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 12:13:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08908 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22584 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:16:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22474 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA12550; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA15941; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:16:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001101bedd4c$28063120$023325cb@p2> References: <001101bedd4c$28063120$023325cb@p2> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:16:10 -0700 To: "Argall Family" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: RE: 2,4-Dinitrophenol Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1969 There seems to be some confusion here about "2,4-D". The term "2,4-D" almost always means 2,4-diphenoxyacetic acid, not 2,4-dinitrophenol. 2,4-D has a number of salts and esters and is widely available for home use. It is a broadleaf weed killer. 2,4-dinitrophenol appears to no longer be available in the United States. **************************************** Kathy Brunetti, Senior Land and Water Analyst California Department of Pesticide Regulation 830 K Street, Sacramento, California, USA 95814 voice (916) 324-4100, FAX (916) 324-4088 Our Web site: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 12:13:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA08912 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:13:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA26675 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:20:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26615 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA03652 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15234; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01beddc2$db549520$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: , "Edna M Weigel" Subject: Re: Corn root worm/cucumber beetle and jimson weed Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:14:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1970 Dear Edna and Sanet: When I took my first entomology course, the professor told me that it was important to be able to answer general entomology questions outside my specialty because once I identified myself as an entomologist, there would always be people in need of insect identification and advice. I think this is the best advice I ever received in my professional career. The confusion about different species of insects is pervasive. There are just not enough entomologists around for people to consult! Diatribe over. I think your post is about at least three different species of beetles. Assuming that you are in the east or midwest of the U.S. (There are different species on the west coast, and the whole species complex is different elsewhere in the world.), the most important beetle pest of cucurbits is the striped cucumber beetle, Acalymma vittatum. This beetle overwinters as an adult, typically appears soon after the plants germinate, lays its eggs at the base of cucurbit plants, where its larvae develop on the roots, and then the adults feed again on cucurbit leaves, flowers, and fruit. It also transmits bacterial wilt. There are several species of corn rootworms, one of which, Diabrotica undecimpunctata howardi, is known as both the southern corn rootworm and the spotted cucumber beetle. This beetle, like other corn rootworms, overwinters in the egg stage. The larvae develop on roots, but have a wider host range than other corn rootworm beetles or the striped cucumber beetle. I know they develop on corn roots, cucurbit roots, bean roots, and on a roots of some other grasses. Probably more than that. Because they overwinter as eggs, they appear on cucurbit plants later than the striped cucumber beetle. They feed on flowers, fruit, and leaves, and they can also transmit bacterial wilt disease. They are not as severe a pest on cucurbits in Connecticut as striped cucumber beetles, though. I suspect that the beetles on jimson weed were another beetle entirely. (Both of these beetles feed on pollen of many flowers, so they might have been feeding inside the flowers, but they wouldn't have been eating the leaves of jimson weed.) My guess would be that the beetles on jimson weed were the three-lined potato beetle, Lema trilineata. These beetles are striped in a pattern similar to the striped cucumber beetle. If you turn over the beetles and look at the body from the underside, three-lined potato beetles are reddish brown, while striped cucumber beetles are black. (The corn rootworm beetles, including the western corn rootworm, which is also often confused with striped cucumber beetles, have yellow abdomens.) Since corn rootworms spend the winter as eggs, crop rotation is an effective control. The larvae are believed to be able to travel 1 meter, at most, in the soil. There are various subtle problems with crop rotation that make it sometimes fail when corn and soybeans are grown in alternating years on a large scale, but in general, rotating corn with anything else should control rootworms to a substantial degree, as long as there are not too many grassy weeds that are also rootworm host plants. Kim Stoner -----Original Message----- From: Edna M Weigel To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 12:18 PM Subject: Corn root worm/cucumber beetle and jimson weed > I was startled recently to read that corn root worms grow up to >become cucumber beetles. I assume the reference was for either striped >cucumber beetle (genus Acalymma) or spotted cucumber beetle (genus >Diabrotica). This brings up a question about crop rotation. > Last year, I noticed jimson weed (Datura) was a "great" trap crop >for cucumber beetles (I think they were striped, but I'm not sure and I >can't find any to look at right now). I let one specimen grow in my >garden. By mid summer that jimson weed's leaves were riddled with holes >but it was taking over a lot more space than I intended. Still, I >enjoyed the lovely aromatic flowers and my cucurbits had not a beetle on >them. > This year, I planted corn and beans in that area and have been >grumbling about jimson weed ever since. Not only did I pull out jillions >of jimson weed seedlings, but I've been digging ever deeper into the corn >patch trying to get rid of the tuber that keeps putting up shoots. >Believe me, I'll limit jimson weed to the wild flower portion of the >property in the future. > Meanwhile, my corn (desert adapted--open pollinated) isn't >showing any signs of losing root growth. Some blew almost down, but that >was in a tremendous rain storm that even broke off lots of the native >wild flowers. > I conclude that it isn't a good idea to grow corn very close to >anything (jimson weed, wild gourds, cucumbers, etc.) that attracts >cucumber beetles, but I wonder how much distance and how long in the >rotation is appropriate. Or is corn root worm a problem only in large >mono cultures of hybrid corn that will be mechanically harvested? I'd be >interested in reactions from gardeners, corn growers, or entomologists. >Regards, Edna Weigel > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 13:45:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12103 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16129 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:41:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16069 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id LAA39880 (8.9.1/50); Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:41:21 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990803114402.00707aac@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 11:44:02 -0500 To: citnet-list@igc.org, ecomda@danenet.wicip.org, ppa-greatlakes@igc.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: URL : Pesticides announcement Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1971 If you haven't yet had a chance to surf the web for information on the first FQPA decision regarding both azinphos methyl and methyl parathion, go to: http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/announcement8299.htm Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 13:54:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12268 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20903 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:59:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20894 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0296.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.41]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26564; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A6788A.3BADAE75@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 22:05:14 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp CC: Argall Family , Lorin Unterberger , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: organic chicken feed recipes. References: <199908030309.WAA21010@billman.kuntrynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1972 You mention trypsin inhibitors. I looked up in the Primer UPDATE, because that rang a bell in my mind, and yes, that is one of the undesirable things mentioned. Also it says: "....Lectins bind to sugar receptor molecules on the cell membrane in the intestine, a harmful process. Phytohaemagglutinins are lectins that cause blood to clot in veins, a lethal effect; cooking destroys this reaction. "Trypsin (a protease enzyme) inhibitors are complex protein molecules that prevent digestion of protein by the enzyme. "Cooking long enough to destroy these compounds would destroy the food value. All recipes that advise to cook in boiling water, or after shorter soaking, or to cook in soakwater, should be altered to adapt to the above routine. Recipes calling for pressure cooking of 20-30 minutes should be discarded, as that amount of heat for that long a time would destroy the protein value." Does this fit with your own statement? ================== Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > Why can't they genetically engineer a soybean plant with no trypsin > inhibitors? :) Seriously though, ladino clover as a ground reconditioner > and as a source of protein for non-ruminants can not be beat. Soybeans as > a grazing crop have a very narrow harvesting window. Been there and done > that on ones that the weeds got away from me on. I would think brassicas > would be a better choice for annuals. > > Is anybody doing any work on a soybean plant that can be fed without making > the bean crushers rich (ie ADM, price fixer to the world and the likes)? > > Best wishes, > Greg Gunthorp > Free Range hog farmer > > ---------- > > From: Argall Family > > To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp ; Lorin Unterberger > ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > > Subject: RE: organic chicken feed recipes. > > Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 7:44 PM > > > > I wonder if the highest value of the soy beans might not be as a > rotation, > > to broadcast into tired crop areas, for nitrogen fixing, before allowing > the > > poultry to free range through the weeds and soy bean plants [not aware of > > any toxicity in the plants]. > > > > Aside from Greg's comment on treating beans before feeding with them, > > legumes tend to be around 35% protein, and chicks, growers and layers > need > > protein value declining form about 17 to 13% or so, so soy beans would > be a > > good protein lift. Generally, our birds have a great preference for > variety. > > They go crazy over the occasional treat of what is sold here as pigeon > mix, > > with a protein content around 25%, and with big variety of seeds. With > some > > chicken breeds, e.g. Isa Brown, you have to be careful, as high protein > > diets tend to produce bird-busting big eggs. Hence my thought that the > > highest value of the soy beans might be to feed them to the soil, allow > them > > to help strengthen fallow ground with their strong growth and nitrogen > > fixing, before running the chickens through as clean-up and manuring > > tractors. > > > > Dennis > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 13:57:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12329 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01362 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:01:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01264 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA15425 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:01:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: Subject: Sustainable living in VT Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:59:04 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id NAA01292 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1973 Here's a web site describing a new community seeking compatible residents. It will be constructed at the edge of a couple of dairy farms that have been purchased in the village of Hartland Four Corners. There will be a CSA, a small dairy and cheese making operation, a maple syrup business, and other related enterprises. Also on-site is a Sustainability Institute led by Donella Meadows, one of the community members. http://www.coopsports.com/cobbhill/index.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 14:35:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA13101 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25998 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25972 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12282 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:55:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA12588 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:44:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:44:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Radio show tomorrow and other stuff (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1974 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 05:17:57 -0500 From: Guy Clark To: permaculture Subject: Radio show tomorrow and other stuff Hey folks- I will be on a local one hour radio show later today (7 p.m.) on KOPN here in Columbia, MO talking about genetic engineering and I have a couple of hundred questions. I will limit them to just a few: Does anyone have a good list of biotech employees that have gone into the regulatory agencies? And did they go back to their former jobs when they got done? I am working on a list of companies/countries/agencies/groups that have passed anti-GMO decisions, does one already exist, or the pieces of one? I am also trying to make a list of GMO ingredients in our food supply, does one, or the pieces of one, already exist? I am working on the question from the perspective of arguments used by apologists of the technology and why they are fallacious. Here are some of the ones I am working on: GMO foods are not significantly different than hybrids. Difference in kind, not in degree Not enough to regulate, but enough to patent GMO foods are safe. To non-GMO farmers Genetic drift Increased prolificacy and promiscuousness of GMO's Superweeds/superbugs Genie out of the bottle problem To humans Concerns about increased food allergies Unanticipated problems due to novel combinations Ethical and religious concerns Loss of antibiotics due to use of such as gene markers To the rest of the environment Terminator/Traitor technology Monarch Butterfly/Green Lacewing studies Concerns about damage to bird populations The difference between not proven unsafe and precautionary principle GMO foods are well regulated. By whom? Revolving door problem Agencies caught between regulating/promoting technologies (witness USDA's collusion in creation of Terminator) Regulation divided among different scientists in different departments of different agencies whose agendas are not always in synch. We need GMO's to: Feed the world Reduce the use of toxic chemicals Those who resist the expansion of GMO's are: Tree hugging environmentalist/Luddites Foreign protectionists Irrational So what am I missing? Please help. I will be at the farm most of tomorrow picking for my CSA delivery/Wed. market. Namaste', Guy Clark To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 15:11:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA13716 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:11:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08538 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:06:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08481 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.73.251.235]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990803180542.VBBC8676@worldnet.att.net>; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:05:42 +0000 Message-ID: <37A72F43.F0DFCDAC@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:04:52 -0500 From: Bunny Snow Reply-To: sksnow@worldnet.att.net Organization: Pollution Solution X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kathy Brunetti , SANET-mg Subject: Re: 2,4-Dinitrophenol References: <001101bedd4c$28063120$023325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1975 Kathy, Thank you for clearing the different in terms between 2,4-Diphenoxyacetic acid and 2,4-dinitrophenol. There is good online information about some of the toxicity of both: http://www.epa.gov/ttn/uatw/hlthef/dinitrop.html (from the federal government) http://www.efn.org/~ncap/factsheets.html (researched gathered and authored Caroline Cox of the National Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides). The 2,4-D herbicide fact sheet is in PDF but an adobe acrobat reader software is available in order to view this important fact sheet! The misnamed inerts identified in 2,4-D were gathered using the Freedom of Information Act by NCAP and are listed at: http://www.efn.org/~ncap/24Dinert.html For more information about inert ingredients in pesticides, vist the inerts disclosure section of NCAP's web page http://www.efn.org/~ncap/inertspage.html Bunny Snow --------------------------------------------- Kathy Brunetti wrote: > There seems to be some confusion here about "2,4-D". The term > "2,4-D" almost always means 2,4-diphenoxyacetic acid, not > 2,4-dinitrophenol. 2,4-D has a number of salts and esters and is > widely available for home use. It is a broadleaf weed killer. > 2,4-dinitrophenol appears to no longer be available in the United > States. > **************************************** > Kathy Brunetti, Senior Land and Water Analyst > California Department of Pesticide Regulation > 830 K Street, Sacramento, California, USA 95814 > voice (916) 324-4100, FAX (916) 324-4088 > > Our Web site: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 15:40:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA14170 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04304 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:49:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04176 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA16571; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:48:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor" , Subject: RE: government and industry Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:46:21 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <93FE160606@csnet.nw.uoguelph.ca> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA04233 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1976 Ann, Chuck, Fred, etc., Just back from a nourishing canoe trip in the Canadian wilderness. RE the thread about the corruption, narrow-mindedness, and idiocy of govt. (example Glickman/Gore on GMOs): Fred's right that we have the best government money can buy, but there's another piece of the puzzle that hasn't been discussed much here. I'm referring to ideology, or world view. Some call it the neo-classical paradigm in economics. Faith in the market, confirmed to all by the collapse of state run economies in the former Soviet bloc. Also frequently confirmed by common sense: would you rather have a bureaucrat or an entrepreneur running the flow of goods and services we all depend on? Now don't get me wrong. I'm for creating a "box" within which markets function, with rules of the game that limit perversion of democracy, consumption of nonrenewable resources, and pollution, among other "external costs" of the market. That box has to be democratically accountable government operating with the precautionary principle and the principle of subsidiarity (do it as local as possible). But the current world view of most all opinion leaders is decidedly hostile to such a contrarian view. And ideas have power. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 17:22:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16063 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25033 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:15:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24990 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:15:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10741 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA10930; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook.nidlink.com (pm5-40.nidlink.com [216.18.141.47]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA07144; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908032014.NAA07144@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:24:13 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Pesticide Developments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA24991 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1977 Michelle Miller posted a link to the announcement of EPA's actions under the FQPA on two OPs yesterday. Consumers Union released its own analysis of actions by EPA on the first one-third of tolerances, including all OPs at a press conference Aug. 2, 1999 in D.C. NRDC announced a deadline lawsuit at the same press conference. CU's analysis of the very limited progress made by EPA in dealing with List One chemicals under the FQPA is posted, along with the press release, statement, detailed tables, etc on the FQPA webpage at: http://www.ecologic-ipm.com/tolerance.html This morning, EPA finally released details of its actions on methyl parathion and azinphos-methyl. My quick assessment follows -- Methyl Parathion Twenty-four food uses were voluntarily canceled. Of these 17 had no use reported by USDA in its most recent chemical use survey. This means there was less than 1 percent of the national acreage treated (9 cases) or the crop was not surveyed (8 cases). EPA actions impacted crops accounting for 8.6 percent of methyl parathion pounds applied across all crops (see Table below) and 16.9 percent of acres treated. Use on fresh sweet corn has apparently been continued. 15 percent of the nations acres were treated in 1998, accounting for 21,600 pounds applied. Use was most intensive in Michigan, where the insecticide was applied 2.4 times on 11 percent of the acres. Twenty-four food uses were retained. No final and official information has been released to date regarding reductions in tolerances on these uses. The cabbage use was retained even though only 1 percent of the nations acres where treated in 1998. This could emerge as a high-exposure and risk crop. There is little or no residue data on nearly half of the remaining uses so it is not possible to verify EPA claims regarding the impact of the actions taken relative to the methyl parathion Reference Dose. Azinphos-methyl Actions taken will have little or no impact on use of azinphos-methyl on key childrens foods or residues in the diet. Continued azinphos-methyl use on two crops apples and pears will take up essentially all the allowable exposure to organophosphates (OPs), placing in jeopardy most other OP uses that result in residues in food. The farm-worker provisions may reduce exposures somewhat, but will clearly not bring Margins of Exposure to acceptable levels. The EPA announced no estimates of the impact on azinphos-methyl use because none is expected. This list has discussed lately why industry seems to have such inordinate influence on government decisions in the biotech arena. The same questions arise in the area of pesticide regulation, and have for years. One of the major reasons why is laid out in discomfortingly frank detail in a recent EWG report entitled "From Bureaucrats to Fat Cats: EPA Pesticide Program is a 'Farm Team' for the Pesticide Lobby." This short, readable report can be downloaded at: http://www.ewg.org/pub/home/reports/fatcats/fatcats.html It is not a pretty picture; I could add a few personal details from my years of dealing with the same people, but there is no need. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 17:30:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16255 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03190 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:27:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03117 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FD8D46@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:24:25 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 3 Aug 99 16:27:03 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 3 Aug 99 16:26:55 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:26:55 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: support of sm farmers by large chain stores In-reply-to: <199908030406.AAA04334@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <6A9807B20C7@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1978 > Hello all- > > I am wondering.... to what extent do chains such as Whole Foods, Wild Oats > and > their many subsidiaries actually support small organic farmers? Where are > these stores getting their organic produce? Their websites claim that they > are supporting small farmers by featuring their produce and also by helping > farmers in transition by putting a transition label on certain produce > items. > > Where do you see these chains fitting into the movement for sustainable > agriculture in terms of consumer education and also in terms of direct > support for small farmers? > > Thanks for your thoughts, > Emily > I too would like info on this. There have been posts in the recent past which indicate that at least Whole Foods was not open to local farmer supplies. We are doing a study here at the Uof GA which is putting together supply and demand info for organic products, and one assumption is that these stores can be a real marketing outlet for local farmers. If these stores are really not offering a market to local producers, seems to me that someone out there must have the talent and energy to help us do some grassroots work here over the 'net to convince Whole Foods and Wild Oats that it's in their best interest to give local farmers more receptive buyers and more shelf space. What say ye? Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 17:36:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16389 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13074 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:41:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12985 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA02039; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990803164924.007ba7b0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 16:49:24 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: WHole Foods Etc In-Reply-To: <199908030406.AAA04334@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1979 Here in western MA, Whole Foods is one of the few "big" chains that buys from farmers at their store's back door rather than only through a central warehouse. They also do a lot to promote the individual farmer by putting photos of them by their products and they are working with us on our "Buy Local" marketing campaign. So I tip my cap to them. Mark Lattanzi ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. Check out our web site!!! www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 17:47:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA16645 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13596 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:44:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13420 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA02075; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990803165056.007bd5c0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 16:50:56 -0400 To: nefood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Listen to NPR at 6:06 pm TODAY!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1980 Our board president and local organic farmer Jim Pitts is going to be interviewed on NPR about the drought and its effects here in New England. Check it out at 6:06 pm. Mark Lattanzi ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. Check out our web site!!! www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 19:17:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA18203 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05254 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:18:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from vesta.plain.co.nz (IDENT:root@vesta.plain.co.nz [202.36.174.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05240 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnzch.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by vesta.plain.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id JAA12635 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:14:05 +1200 Received: from chch.agnz.co.nz(Samira by chch.agnz.co.nz (UUPC/extended 1.12p/sm3) with UUCP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:00:22 +1200 Message-ID: <76b027a2240a@chch.agnz.co.nz> From: Wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz (Samira Wohlfart) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:36:11 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Ministers Agree To Mandatory Labelling Of GM Food Reply-to: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA05247 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1981 Ministers Agree To Mandatory Labelling Of GM Food  Staff Reporter {HYPERLINK "Mailto:gorf@actrix.gen.nz"}Peter Fowler 4/08/99 07:42:00 The Australian New Zealand Food Standards Council (ANZFSC) has agreed to the mandatory labelling of genetically modified food, although some outstanding issues still have to be worked through. ANZFSC health ministers met last night in Australia to discuss the issue. It followed consideration of how to implement the "in principle" decision of December to label substantially equivalent GMFs. The ruling confirmed the initial decision, but noted there were a number of areas which need clarification by the Australia New Zealand Food Authority (ANZFA). These areas included whether to exempt refined foods, and whether the decision will be viewed as a technical trade barrier under international trade rules. The New Zealand Minister of Health, Wyatt Creech said the decision underlines the government's commitment to safe food and informed consumer choice. He said the 5500 public submissions to the Government on the issue helped influence New Zealand's vote. The common theme from individual submitters was that the consumer had a right to know whether the food they were buying was genetically modified. Meanwhile the Grocery Marketers Association, which represents processed food distributors, has expressed concern that a new regime of mandatory labels for GM foods will push up prices. Labour spokesperson on research, science and technology, Mark Peck, this morning described the decision as good, but said Labour will promote wholeheartedly legislation to require that all genetically modified foods are labelled. ANZFSC is due to meet again in October. NewsRoom 1999 Samira Wohlfart Organic Products Exporters Group Inc. (OPEG) PO Box 8640 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: +64 3 348-0979 Fax: +64 3 348-1867 Email: wohlfart@chch.agnz.co.nz Website: http://www.organicsnewzealand.org.nz To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 20:20:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA19330 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28626 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:28:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28605 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d55-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.55]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA23441 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:27:41 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: Oz/NZ: GM decision Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:31:54 +1000 Message-ID: <001901bede08$5ec00620$373325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990803165056.007bd5c0@crocker.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1982 >From the Australian Broadcasting Corporation news channel http://www.abc.net.au/channel/default.htm [for the actual press release, go to http://www.anzfa.gov.au/LatestMedia/MediaReleases/(68)_3_August_99-Health_Mi nisters_agree_to_extend_labelling_of_genetically_modified_food.htm that whole long line from http to htm is the address] Background on ANZFA at end. Dennis "Ministers agree on labelling for genetically-modified foods Australia and New Zealand have decided to make labelling of genetically-modified foods compulsory on a greater number of products. But the way has been left open to allow exemptions to the rules. Australian consumers will soon have new labels on food indicating whether it's been genetically modified. Sophie Scott reports. After a lengthy meeting in Canberra, Australia's nine health ministers and the New Zealand health minister emerged with an agreement to require mandatory labelling of genetically-modified foods and ingredients. However, when the details are sorted out, there will be a range of foods exempted from the labelling rule if they fall beneath so-called threshold levels - oils and highly refined products such as sugar are two examples. The health ministers have arranged to maintain an ongoing dialogue every two weeks during the preparation of final details of labelling rules. Federal Parliamentary Secretary for Health, Grant Tambling says the outcome should satisfy community demand. "We've now met the requirements which have been put on the table with regard to adequate labelling," Mr Tambling said. South Australian Health Minister Dean Brown says the mandatory labelling should also be acceptable to the food industry. "I believe that the extra costs will be very marginal indeed," Mr Brown said. "That's one of the tasks that need to be worked at over the next few months, to determine cost-effective ways of implementing this without substantially increasing the cost of food," he said. "In fact, I think it can be done with virtually no increasing cost at all." Ministers will meet again in October to fine-tune the arrangements which would come into force a year later. Arduous After taking seven hours to reach the compromise, New Zealand Health Minister Wyatt Creech acknowledged the complexity of the outcome. "This was an arduous and difficult discussion, not because it was hugely contested, because the practical implementation of the policy is going to be tricky," Mr Creech said. The New South Wales Health Minister, Craig Knowles, says the decision upholds the rights of consumers. "I think consumers can be satisfied that we've adopted a stringent position, mandating labelling requirements, clear indications of what's in food," Mr Knowles said. "That, of course, responds to many of the calls that have been made right around Australia in recent weeks," he said. ACT Health Minister Michael Moore says he is satisfied with the agreement. Mr Moore says the outcome will achieve most of the aims of those who wanted consumers to be provided with information on genetically modified ingredients. "Well, of course, it was difficult," he said. "You don't have ministers meeting on an issue like this for six hours if it was going to be easy. "There was a whole range of different ideas which we were trying to accommodate and reach. "But the main principle was that we wanted to deliver mandatory labelling in a comprehensive way and that's going to be done." "We're now looking at the issue of thresholds and whether or not there should be a threshold level for such foods which contain no protein whatsoever, for example, oils and refined sugars and so on, that don't carry any of the transgenic material. "Where that's the case I think there is an argument that a threshold should be applied and I think it's one that ought to be considered carefully." Cost The main lobby group representing the food industry has warned that the agreement on mandatory labelling of genetically-modified food will burden the industry with extra cost. The Food and Grocery Council says mandatory labelling could mislead and confuse consumers, and may affect Australia's international trading obligations. The council's executive director, Mitch Hooke, says the industry will work with Health Ministers to address issues of concern. BACKGROUND >From 1999 Australian Health portfolio Budget papers: http://www.health.gov.au/pubs/budget99/pbs/partc_1.htm Australia New Zealand Food Authority The Australia New Zealand Food Authority (ANZFA), in cooperation with the Australian Commonwealth, State, and Territory governments and the New Zealand Government, develops food standards and other food regulatory measures for Australia and New Zealand. Once the Australia New Zealand Food Standards Council (ANZFSC) approves a food standard they are published in the 'Food Standards Code' and are adopted by reference in State and Territory law. Food standards are gazetted in New Zealand by the New Zealand Minister of Health. In Australia, ANZFA also: coordinates the surveillance of food; coordinates food product recalls in cooperation with the States and Territories; conducts research on matters that may be included in a food standard; undertakes food safety education initiatives in cooperation with the States and Territories; develops codes of practice for industry on any matter that may be included in a food standard; and develops risk assessment policies for foods imported into Australia. During 1999-2000, the Australia New Zealand Food Authority will focus on: finalising the Review of the Food Standards Code to allow Australia and New Zealand to adopt a new joint Food Standards Code which encourages industry innovation whilst protecting the health and safety of consumers; an agreed food safety system involving coordinated trans-Tasman surveillance, monitoring and compliance; development and implementation of new food regulatory arrangements resulting from future decisions of government on the Blair Review recommendations; implementation of new arrangements with New Zealand following decisions of the Australian and New Zealand governments to improve trans-Tasman food regulation; and specific industry applications for product by product approval for genetically modified foods and possibly for other classes of food requiring individual product assessment for safety. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 3 22:47:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21026 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:47:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA17147 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:37:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17044 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.48] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:33:52 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 21:40:54 -0400 Subject: Whole Foods buying local? From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990804013352969.AAA300@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.48]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1983 Earlier this year I attended a two-day organic symposium in Maryland. One of the guest speakers was from Whole Foods. She spent 4 hours telling some 50 farmers how hard it is to find local farmers to buy food from and how desperately Whole Foods tries to do so. As far as I know, however, not one farmer that day got any contract, or encouragement to grow for Whole Foods. The following week I spent most of a day on the phone trying to connect with buyers from Whole Foods stores in Maryland, Virginia an d North Carolina. Not one person returned my calls. So much for supporting local farmers. I'm afraid Greg Gunthorp is right, Whole Foods uses the "local farmer" bit as a gimmick to increase sales of their mostly conventional products. Andy Lee Good Earth Farm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 00:18:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22010 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA07605 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:57:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07594 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA07230; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:56:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-233.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.233) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007183; Tue Aug 3 21:55:59 1999 Message-ID: <000a01bedd5b$98857c80$e9fd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Patricia Foreman" , "sanet" Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:55:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1984 I was just reading on the front page of the business section of my local paper, Worcester, Ma. the following: Paraphrased A local organic dairy farmer was having trouble making ends meet paying taxes etc. The local officials worked out a payment plan, so he gets a bit more time to farm. However in the last 10 years, VanHazinga(the farmer) has battled the state over his refusal to add vitamins to Brookside Farm's organic milk; battled the Westminster (his town) Zoning Board over sale of hot dogs and hamburgers at the stand; and again in 1993. snip He traces his current troubles to 1996, when the sale of Bread and Circus to Texas Whole Foods dealt a severe blow to his revenues. Bread and Circus was a major buyer of Brookside's 10 varieties of organic milk;the new owners (Whole Foods) had its own milk suppliers. snip "I'd love to put chocolate milk in mini-markets, Mr. Mike's and so forth, but they all have full-service contracts, " he said. (I have had the chocolate milk delish). It continues to talk about a large company Suiza Foods that have bought up most of the local dairies. VanHazinga says he'd love to sell developement rights but no one is interested. VanHazing stood in front of his barn, staring into the distance, his eyes brimming with tears of frustration. "I'm so far behind I just can't catch up", he said. -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Foreman To: sanet Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 9:37 PM Subject: Whole Foods buying local? >Earlier this year I attended a two-day organic symposium in Maryland. One of >the guest speakers was from Whole Foods. She spent 4 hours telling some 50 >farmers how hard it is to find local farmers to buy food from and how >desperately Whole Foods tries to do so. As far as I know, however, not one >farmer that day got any contract, or encouragement to grow for Whole Foods. >The following week I spent most of a day on the phone trying to connect with >buyers from Whole Foods stores in Maryland, Virginia an d North Carolina. >Not one person returned my calls. So much for supporting local farmers. I'm >afraid Greg Gunthorp is right, Whole Foods uses the "local farmer" bit as a >gimmick to increase sales of their mostly conventional products. > >Andy Lee >Good Earth Farm > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 01:03:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22437 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA21641 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:05:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21522 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:09:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "sanet-mg (E-mail)" Cc: "'Lisa Krall '" Subject: Northeast Agroforestry Conference, September 9-11, Portland, Main e Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:09:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1985 Forwarding: Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:46:29 -0400 From: Lisa Krall Organization: USDA-NRCS To: sanet CC: timetide Subject: Northeast Agroforestry Conference, September 9-11, Portland, Maine Coming in September!! Northeast Agroforestry Conference September 9-11, Portland, Maine For more information about the conference, (registration, speakers, etc.) check out the conference WEB site at http://www.me.nrcs.usda.gov//ttmercd. Or contact either the Time & Tide RC&D office in Augusta, ME at 207-622-7847 ext. 192 or Threshold to Maine RC&D office in Gray, ME at 207-657-3131. Attached is a press release for the conference, FYI INCOME OPPORTUNITIES FROM YOUR OWN BACK YARD You have a beautiful wooded backyard. Ever wonder how to reap financial rewards as well as the peace and quiet your green space provides? Several Resource Conservation and Development Areas throughout Maine and New England are collaborating to present a new and exciting agroforestry conference to be held September 9-11, 1999 in Portland, Maine that could answer that very question. Redefining agroforestry for the northeast has involved taking the traditional aspects of agroforestry and putting new ideas and concepts in their place. Income Opportunities from Specialty Products-Agroforestry in the Northeast is the informational and educational event formerly referred to as Redefining Agroforestry for the Northeast. This conference on innovative ideas and practices for using wooded areas will be held at the Radisson Eastland Hotel in the historic old port section of Portland. Funding for the conference comes in part from the National Agroforestry Center in Lincoln, Nebraska. The traditional definition of agroforestry is a group of practices that combine trees and shrubs with crop or livestock operations to help create more integrated, diverse, and sustainable farms and communities. This conference will take agroforestry beyond the traditional and explore many new and exciting practices for landowners. Workshop topics include ginseng growing, brown ash basketry, harvesting craft products and supplies, forest gardens, medicinal uses of trees and wild mushrooms, forest foods and others on special products from the forest. There will also be workshops on exporting agroforestry products and Fast Trac Entrepreneurial Training. Traditional agroforestry topics will be covered as well as the new and unusual. There is sure to be something of interest for landowners, and agricultural, forestry and rural development professionals. On Saturday afternoon conference goers will have the choice of participating in workshops or attending the Small Woodlot Owners Association of Maine Field Day at nearby Smiling Hill Farm in Westbrook. Participants will have the opportunity to choose from twenty-one, hour-long sessions on topics as interesting as they are diverse More information about the conference can be obtained from the conference web page at http://www.me.nrcs.usda.gov//ttmercd. Interested people are also encouraged to contact either the Time & Tide RC&D office in Augusta at 207-622-7847 x192 or Threshold to Maine RC&D office in Gray at 207-657-3131. Make your plans now to attend this truly unique conference. Special note for Maine Foresters: Credits will be awarded as follows: Friday, 6 credits; Saturday, 4 credits; attending complete conference, 10 credits. All credits are for category 2. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lisa Krall, Agronomist USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service 5 Godfrey Drive, Orono, ME 04473 Phone: 207 866-7249 FAX : 207 866-7262 email: lkrall@me.nrcs.usda.gov VoiceMail: 1 800 384-USDA, 767-8200 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 01:05:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA22450 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29229 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:17:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29188 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-9-46.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.142]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA01102; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:08:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199908040408.XAA01102@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Patricia Foreman" , "sanet" Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:17:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1986 It is high time someone calls them on their marketing gimmick. Because its too often the case that they don't even buy products that are natural/organic/or anything. They are conventional, non-local, and a huge premium. Its a joke. I'd be willing to forward my phone bill on to anyone that would like to see documentation. I've left at least one message a week to the Meat buyer for Wild Oats stores since March. I did get one return call and got explained how it was often too difficult to work with local farmers on meat and how they can't effectively distribute products. I already go by their stores! I've even left a message for their CEO. My next call is to 20/20, 60 minutes, or 48 hours. I'm drawing very near to making that call. I go by several of their stores on my Chicago delivery route and quite often I have boneless butterfly chops left over. It is too convenient for them to get their pork from Premium Standard Farms I guess. Yes, they are the third largest confinement operation in the country and the largest environmental polluter in the Midwest. I too have set in on their "speech" about buying local. Its a load of crap. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer ---------- > From: Patricia Foreman > To: sanet > Subject: Whole Foods buying local? > Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 8:40 PM > > Earlier this year I attended a two-day organic symposium in Maryland. One of > the guest speakers was from Whole Foods. She spent 4 hours telling some 50 > farmers how hard it is to find local farmers to buy food from and how > desperately Whole Foods tries to do so. As far as I know, however, not one > farmer that day got any contract, or encouragement to grow for Whole Foods. > The following week I spent most of a day on the phone trying to connect with > buyers from Whole Foods stores in Maryland, Virginia an d North Carolina. > Not one person returned my calls. So much for supporting local farmers. I'm > afraid Greg Gunthorp is right, Whole Foods uses the "local farmer" bit as a > gimmick to increase sales of their mostly conventional products. > > Andy Lee > Good Earth Farm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 03:31:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA23815 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA03092 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:50:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03014 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.200] (ppp-206-170-32-200.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.200]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03476 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19990803114402.00707aac@facstaff.wisc.edu> References: <3.0.2.32.19990803114402.00707aac@facstaff.wisc.edu> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:21:03 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: URL : Pesticides announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1987 Howdy, all-- Michelle Miller wrote: >If you haven't yet had a chance to surf the web for information on the >first FQPA decision regarding both azinphos methyl and methyl parathion, go >to: > >http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/announcement8299.htm This led someone at the Organic Farming Research Foundation's conference (which ended today) to note that a conventional farmer of his acquaintance was in deep mourning, having just lost two dear members of the family. :^) pax mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it. --Former U.S. Vice President, now Presidential hopeful, Dan Quayle To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 03:43:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA23934 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:43:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA07103 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:59:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07075 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA28849; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:59:58 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12727; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:59:03 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 4 Aug 99 08:53:23 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 4 Aug 99 08:52:24 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: grargall@alphalink.com.au, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:52:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: 2,4-Dinitrophenol Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <948822F0ED8@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1988 hi, dennis >Cathy Brunetti wrote: >"No products containing 2,4-Dinitrophenol are currently registered >as pesticides with the US Environmental Protection Agency. 13 >products have been registered in the past. No products have been >registered in California since 1991. No products containing 2,4- >Dinitrophenol appear to have been registered under the trade name >Chemox PE. Four Chemox PE products were previously registered in >the U. S.; they contained various salts of BUTYL-4,6- >DINITROPHENOL, also known as dinoseb." and you wrote: >Well, on another discussion list, someone offered this unnerving >advice recently (Cathy, glad your comment on the relationship >between product registration and this assertion that the product >is on the shelves) to a guy who wanted to get rid of clover in a >lawn: >"This is an easy one [someone wrote], 2,4-D is the thing you need. > It can be found in most >over the counter weed killers and will do a nice job on clover and >all it's cousins along with most broad-leaf weeds. Ortho brand >eed-B-Gone uses this as the main ingredient. and that's what i found (chem-use of usda): United States Department of Agriculture Agricultural Chemical Usage 1998 Field Crops Summary May 1999 Alfalfa Hay: Active Ingredient Publication Status By Regions and U.S., 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------------- : : Regions : United :--------------------------------- Active Ingredient : States : North- : North : : : : East : Central : South : West -------------------------------------------------------------------- : : Herbicides: : : 2,4-D : P : * * P P 2,4-DB : P : P * * P Barley: Active Ingredient Publication Status By Regions and U.S., 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------------- : : Regions : United :--------------------------------- Active Ingredient : States : North- : North : : : : East : Central : South : West -------------------------------------------------------------------- Herbicides: : : 2,4-D : P : * P * P 2,4-DB : * : * * * Corn: Active Ingredient Publication Status By States Surveyed, 1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------ : States Surveyed Active Ingredient :---------------------------------------------- - : ALL : CO : IL : IN : IA : KS : KY : MI : MN ------------------------------------------------------------------ Herbicides: : : 2,4-D : P : P P P P P * P P Upland Cotton: Active Ingredient Publication Status By States Surveyed, 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------------- : States Surveyed Active Ingredient:------------------------------------------------ : ALL : AL : AZ : AR : CA : GA : LA : MS : NC : TN -------------------------------------------------------------------- Herbicides: : : 2,4-D : P : * P * * Oats: Active Ingredient Publication Status By Regions and U.S., 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------------- : : Regions : United :--------------------------------- Active Ingredient : States : North- : North : : : : East : Central : South : West -------------------------------------------------------------------- Herbicides: : : 2,4-D : P : P P P P 2,4-DB : P : P * * Pasture and Rangeland: Active Ingredient Publication Status By Regions and U.S., 1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------ : : Regions : United :--------------------------------- Active Ingredient : States : North- : North : : : : East : Central : South : West ------------------------------------------------------------------ Herbicides: : : 2,4-D : P : P P P P 2,4-D, Dimet. salt : * : * * Sorghum: Active Ingredient Publication Status Kansas, 1998 ----------------------------- ----------------------------- Active Ingredient : Active Ingredient : ----------------------------- ----------------------------- : : Herbicides: : Herbicides:(cont.) : 2,4-D : P Paraquat : * Alachlor : P Pendimethalin : * Atrazine : P Propachlor : P ----------------------------- ----------------------------- P Usage data are published for this active ingredient. * Usage data are not published for this active ingredient. Soybeans: Active Ingredient Publication Status By States Surveyed, 1998 ------------------------------------------------------------------ : States Surveyed Active Ingredient :----------------------------------------------- : ALL : AR : IL : IN : IA : KS : KY : LA : MI ------------------------------------------------------------------ Herbicides: : : 2,4-D : P : P P P * * P * 2,4-DB : P : * * * Winter Wheat: Agricultural Chemical Applications, States Surveyed, 1998 1/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Agricultural: Area :: Rate per : Rate per : Total Chemical : Applied :: Application : Crop Year : Applied ----------------------------------------------------------------- : Percent Pounds per Acre 1,000 lbs Herbicides: : 2,4-D : 24 0.43 0.46 4,442 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Class : Common Name : Trade Name -------------------------------------------------------------------- H,O 2,4-D several H 2,4-D, Dimethlamine salt Saber, Weed-B-Gon so there seems to be some confusion about registration and i would really like to know, if usage is still allowed so to cathy brunetti (if she is reading this): may i conclude from the data above, that 2,4-d is used on one fourth of the total american wheat area and is NOT registered ?? the chem-usage-file dates from may 99... --------------- klaus wiegand +-[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]------+ | | | Hiring consultants to conduct studies can be | | an excellent means of turning problems into | | gold -- your problems into their gold. | +------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 07:49:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26042 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA17434 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:55:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17430 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id FAA06022; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:53:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-176.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.176) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006013; Wed Aug 4 05:53:50 1999 Message-ID: <000601bedd9e$5bfe0d20$b0f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , "Patricia Foreman" , "sanet" Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:52:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1989 Greg, I think you should call 20/20 etc. the darn shows are on every other day. They could use the story :). I don't see much TV advertising for the stores so they might just listen to you ie if the TV networks and Wild Oats etc.aren't buddy buddy. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy in my paper would agree to talk to them. This whole thread has been disturbing, in some way more disturbing than the GE thread. Most of my CSA members joined because they usually shop at "health" food stores and buying local chemical pesticide free food was pleasing to them. But I have given them freezing instructions etc. but of course they won't put up enough stuff to make them self sufficient through the winter. (I am having trouble finding the time heck I am having trouble finding time to eat!) Anyway so back to the stores they'll go. The store around here is Wild Harvest. I know nothing about them. The other one is tiny Living Earth. I do not think it's a chain and would not be surprised if they buy local. There is a new one a few towns away is it Nature's Heartland I think I read thats owned by a big company? There is a store near me that I think buys local Stop and Shop they are own by a big dutch I think company, but at least they buy some stuff. This is what I heard from the guy who rents from us. Conventional stuff however. Well when my son goes back to college and I can get my car back. I am going to a little farm I found and stock up on there meat, other than beef that we raise and I am about to have a freezer full. Greg keep up the good work. The reason this is disturbing is that people like my members have decided they want to buy organic, these store offer organic food. Say they wanted to "protest" what would be their alternative? Where would they realistically get their food. I say realistically because most are not about to start up a large garden dig a root cellar, freeze food etc. The organic movement succeeded it found customers, but still it seems conventional market systems are prevailing. Heavens! Beth -----Original Message----- From: Greg & Lei Gunthorp To: Patricia Foreman ; sanet Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? >It is high time someone calls them on their marketing gimmick. Because its >too often the case that they don't even buy products that are >natural/organic/or anything. They are conventional, non-local, and a huge >premium. Its a joke. I'd be willing to forward my phone bill on to anyone >that would like to see documentation. I've left at least one message a >week to the Meat buyer for Wild Oats stores since March. I did get one >return call and got explained how it was often too difficult to work with >local farmers on meat and how they can't effectively distribute products. >I already go by their stores! I've even left a message for their CEO. My >next call is to 20/20, 60 minutes, or 48 hours. I'm drawing very near to >making that call. I go by several of their stores on my Chicago delivery >route and quite often I have boneless butterfly chops left over. It is too >convenient for them to get their pork from Premium Standard Farms I guess. >Yes, they are the third largest confinement operation in the country and >the largest environmental polluter in the Midwest. I too have set in on >their "speech" about buying local. Its a load of crap. >Best wishes, >Greg Gunthorp >Free Range Hog Farmer > >---------- >> From: Patricia Foreman >> To: sanet >> Subject: Whole Foods buying local? >> Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 8:40 PM >> >> Earlier this year I attended a two-day organic symposium in Maryland. One >of >> the guest speakers was from Whole Foods. She spent 4 hours telling some >50 >> farmers how hard it is to find local farmers to buy food from and how >> desperately Whole Foods tries to do so. As far as I know, however, not >one >> farmer that day got any contract, or encouragement to grow for Whole >Foods. >> The following week I spent most of a day on the phone trying to connect >with >> buyers from Whole Foods stores in Maryland, Virginia an d North >Carolina. >> Not one person returned my calls. So much for supporting local farmers. >I'm >> afraid Greg Gunthorp is right, Whole Foods uses the "local farmer" bit as >a >> gimmick to increase sales of their mostly conventional products. >> >> Andy Lee >> Good Earth Farm >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 07:50:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA26047 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA17361 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:54:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from webserf.net ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA17349 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908041054.GAA17349@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.110] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id ABC56D7101FE; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 05:53:57 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:51:36 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1990 On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:17:29 -0500, Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: >I already go by their stores! I've even left a message for their CEO. My >next call is to 20/20, 60 minutes, or 48 hours. I'm drawing very near to >making that call. I go by several of their stores on my Chicago delivery I don't *know* that this is true with Whole Foods and Wild Oats, but the increasingly usual game in the food business is the payment of hefty "spiffs," or slotting fees to the chain. You want your corn chips on the shelf and first it's gonna cost you big time to buy the right to be on their shelves. One organic/natural soup manufacturer I know told me it would cost $100,000 up front just to get on the distributor's list. Presumably the distributors use that kind of money to pay the spiffs to the chains. Spiffs are becoming distressingly common in the produce business as well. The problem is that there are a bazillion more brands of, say, corn chips out there than any store wants to deal will. Distributors only want to carry two to four brands of a product class on their list, too. So who's gonna pay the most for a slot in the store, or for a spot on the distributor's list? Those slots have become very valuable. In the particular case of Whole Foods, their problem may be related to their stock prices. WF stock rose pretty steadily as long as the company could buy increased earnings by taking over other stores. Now they have to actually *grow* their earnings by increasing the profitability of the stores they've got. With most of their distribution now handled out of Texas (including an awful lot of produce) there's not a lot of room for anybody local. Richard deWilde's smiling face will probably be hanging up over the Madison WF produce section (and a token amount of his food on those shelves) only so long as he retains value to the company as a "poster boy." Meantime, out in "conventional" marketing (as if WF and WO aren't conventional in their approach) the farm price for watermelons has dropped by 70% from the same time last year --- 10c/lb down to 3c/lb. Strange, then, that iin the stores watermelon that could be had a year ago for 29c at retail is now up to 39c on special and 49c regular. I suspect that what we are dealing with in the food business, across the board, is a total disconnect between the consumer and agriculture. Consumers have no idea how low prices have dropped on the farm in the last two year, and I doubt that a single one was aware that the boneless ham they just bought sold for substantially more than the entire boar from which it was made. Or that there is less than 20c ingredient cost in that litre of soy milk, etc, etc. An awful lot of consumers are fat, dumb, and happy, and wish to stay that way. In such an environment the shenanigans of WF and the others are only to be expected. Farmers, find people who appreciate your food and work with them. You can cut your costs mercilessly, but with a dime of the consumer's dollar to work with you'e got no manoeuvring room. There's another 90c out there on the other end of the equation, and the good folks at WF will understandably be more interested in putting it in their pocket than in yours. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 08:24:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26570 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16128 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:39:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA16023 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id GAA16308; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:38:34 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma016219; Wed, 4 Aug 99 06:38:23 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:38:23 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE68@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: 2,4-Dinitrophenol Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:38:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1991 Klaus, > may i conclude from the data above, that 2,4-d is used on one > fourth of the total american wheat area and is NOT registered ?? > the chem-usage-file dates from may 99... The common herbicide known as 2,4-D is 2,4-dichlorophenoxy acetic acid. 2,4-dinitrophenol is an entirely different thing. Dinitrophenol and its derivatives such as Dinoseb are acutely toxic to many organisms because they partition into the mitochondrial inner membrane and allow protons to leak across the membrane, inhibiting capture of energy as ATP. A long time ago, people put dinitrophenol in weight-loss pills, because the chemical causes animals to burn calories like crazy (they get hot). But this proved to be too dangerous. See http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/cgi/iH_Indexes/Chem_H&S/iH_Chem_H&S_Frames.h tml 2,4-D (that is 2,4 dichlorophenoxy acetic acid), derivatives, and related compounds (synthetic auxins) are much less toxic to animals than dinitrophenol (although they too can uncouple ATP production in high doses). These herbicides are toxic to plants because they mimic the plant hormone IAA (indole acetic acid) triggering destructive mis-cues in tissue growth in the plant. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 08:38:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA26726 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA25380 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:51:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ultra.unicomp.net (mail.unicomp.net [209.41.64.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25341 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unicomp.net (209-41-109-134.dal.dialup.unicomp.net [209.41.109.134]) by ultra.unicomp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA28686 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:51:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37A828A3.1DF2D18E@unicomp.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 06:48:51 -0500 From: magedson Reply-To: magedson@unicomp.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? References: <19990804013352969.AAA300@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.48]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1992 Ditto - same thing in Austin during the Texas Organic Growers annual meeting. Lynn Patricia Foreman wrote: > Earlier this year I attended a two-day organic symposium in Maryland. One of > the guest speakers was from Whole Foods. She spent 4 hours telling some 50 > farmers how hard it is to find local farmers to buy food from and how > desperately Whole Foods tries to do so. As far as I know, however, not one > farmer that day got any contract, or encouragement to grow for Whole Foods. > The following week I spent most of a day on the phone trying to connect with > buyers from Whole Foods stores in Maryland, Virginia an d North Carolina. > Not one person returned my calls. So much for supporting local farmers. I'm > afraid Greg Gunthorp is right, Whole Foods uses the "local farmer" bit as a > gimmick to increase sales of their mostly conventional products. > > Andy Lee > Good Earth Farm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 09:47:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA27917 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27077 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:42:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27067 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FLYLO (ppp309.cy-net.net [208.21.195.118]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA11535 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:41:52 -0500 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BEDE4B.FDF8B140@FLYLO>; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:35:57 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEDE4B.FDF8B140@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: buying local Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:35:46 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1993 I rarely post to this group but thought this might be of some personal interest. Here in Bryan Tx, the local 'greengrocer' Mike Scarmado (Farm Patch) WILL go out of his way to buy organic produce and tries to buy local. they also have a large warehouse off-site that receives truckload shipments. They also have a whole valley full of their own farmlands, growing (commercially) quite a bit of area produce themselves. when we approached him about buying organic produce he was agreeable. The daily EARLY shipments come in, he selects the produce, organic first usually, and will pay a slight premium for quality organic produce. IF you hit his office after daybreak though, he'll still try to buy your harvest but if his OG quota is filled for the day, it goes in at regular prices. I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but I do understand how a large grocer would need to have a chain of commitment and the local growers normally aren't prepared for the turnover they need. If they toss out a mega contract for a seasonal local grower, the contract seller probably won't try to renew the contract. I know Grocer's Supply has control over many of the small grocery stores and restaurants in the area. If a local tomato grower comes to them and wants to sell his produce, if GS finds out, they have been known to pull their whole vegetable contract from the grocer. Again, I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but if you intend to go to the news folk with the way they conduct their business, best to see the problem from all angles. martha, Flylo Farms, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 11:08:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00707 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24738 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:20:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA24728 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:20:41 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 862567C3.004E655A; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:16:17 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 862567C3.004EB190 ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:19:32 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <862567C3.004EB04B.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:19:28 -0500 Subject: buying local Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1994 This conversation hits home in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'm on the board of directors for our local natural foods cooperative, Open Harvest, and we're currently setting policy statements that will direct buying habits of our general manager. Ideally, we want to go local. There are rumors that a Whole Foods is coming to town, and we think our push for local foods will not only be healthier for our community, but also that it will give us a marketing edge over Whole Foods. However, we have two farmers on our board, and just last night they were talking about the difficulties in marketing directly to the retail sector. Obviously, conventional marketing structures are well-oiled, "efficient" machines, while "alternative" marketing lacks infrastructure, at least in our area. Our board farmers highlighted distribution, farmers' marketing skills and consumer education as some areas needing attention. We need a food broker for local products, more training for farmers doing direct marketing and a consumer education campaign, among other things. I am wondering if anyone else is involved in locally owned food co-ops -- either selling to them, buying from them, or directing them -- and if you would share your experiences. Has your local food co-op contributed to a local food system, if so how? I also work for SARE, and our office in the North Central region is having a marketing conference to address these issues and others. The conference will be held Nov. 19-20 in Lincoln. See www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare for more info. Send me your address if you'd like to receive registration materials. Thank you, Lisa ---------------------- Forwarded by Lisa M Bauer/ard/IANR/UNEBR on 08/04/99 08:55 AM --------------------------- Martha Wells on 08/04/99 07:35:46 AM To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" cc: (bcc: Lisa M Bauer/ard/IANR/UNEBR) Subject: buying local I rarely post to this group but thought this might be of some personal interest. Here in Bryan Tx, the local 'greengrocer' Mike Scarmado (Farm Patch) WILL go out of his way to buy organic produce and tries to buy local. they also have a large warehouse off-site that receives truckload shipments. They also have a whole valley full of their own farmlands, growing (commercially) quite a bit of area produce themselves. when we approached him about buying organic produce he was agreeable. The daily EARLY shipments come in, he selects the produce, organic first usually, and will pay a slight premium for quality organic produce. IF you hit his office after daybreak though, he'll still try to buy your harvest but if his OG quota is filled for the day, it goes in at regular prices. I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but I do understand how a large grocer would need to have a chain of commitment and the local growers normally aren't prepared for the turnover they need. If they toss out a mega contract for a seasonal local grower, the contract seller probably won't try to renew the contract. I know Grocer's Supply has control over many of the small grocery stores and restaurants in the area. If a local tomato grower comes to them and wants to sell his produce, if GS finds out, they have been known to pull their whole vegetable contract from the grocer. Again, I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but if you intend to go to the news folk with the way they conduct their business, best to see the problem from all angles. martha, Flylo Farms, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 11:09:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00712 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00870 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:26:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00728 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0308.gamewood.net [206.229.249.71]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10039 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:25:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001301bede9f$26392c40$47f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: Whole Foods Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:31:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1995 This whole thread about Whole Foods using the support of local farmers as a marketing gimmick and then actually buying just like any old Supermarket Giant gets me hot! Greg- I think maybe you should make that call to the media, better yet, get one of your good customers to do it. To everyone with the same concern- Whole foods has a web site with "forums" for customers- How about we flood their pages w/ comments like these? Maybe Gerber isn't the only corporate giant that can change when faced with public pressures. http://192.225.33.129/company/cares/index.html Amy in VA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 11:48:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA01770 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06573 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:40:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06517 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:40:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (STD1.2/BZS-8-1.0) id KAA07703; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA00813; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:40:01 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:40:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Renewable News Network X-Sender: rnn@world.std.com To: Environmental Review Cc: oldways@tiac.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Three Food Articles... Message-Id: Approved: pub Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1996 Three Food Articles in Today's Boston Globe =========================================== 1. A trade body on hormones 2. Chefs cast a skeptical eye on altered food 3. Vitamin A derivative is added to rice 1. A trade body on hormones By Mark Weisbrot, 08/04/99 WASHINGTON, D.C. Should countries have the right to set health and safety standards for the food their citizens eat? Should they be allowed to exclude foreign-produced foods that don't meet national standards? Or should these questions be decided by the World Trade Organization? Like it or not, these issues are being decided right now. In the latest trade dispute between the world's two largest trading partners, our government placed sanctions last week on $117 million worth on European goods. The purpose of the sanctions is to force the Europeans to import American beef raised with growth hormones. Ordinarily this decision to place 100 percent tariffs on French truffles, foie gras, and other delicacies most of us have never tasted would violate our international trade agreements. But in this case the United States has the backing of the World Trade Organization, a 134-nation body that was created four years ago to negotiate and govern world trade. The WTO has ruled that Europe's ban on hormone-treated beef is illegal, and it authorized the United States to impose retaliatory trade sanctions against the European Union. Consider the arguments: The Europeans don't allow beef treated with growth hormones to be sold in their markets, regardless of where it is produced. They just don't think it is all that safe to eat. But most US beef is, in fact, treated with these hormones. So our government, at the request of the beef industry, filed a complaint at the WTO, arguing that the ban was an unfair restriction on trade. The rules of the WTO say that any health or environmental standard that affects trade must be supported by scientific evidence. So the WTO appointed a three-judge panel, which decided in March 1997 that there was not enough scientific evidence to justify Europe's ban on hormone-treated beef. But two months ago an independent panel of scientists asked by the European Commission to consider these questions reached a different conclusion. The scientists found that one of the six hormones commonly found in beef is a ''complete carcinogen.'' The panel concluded that further study would be needed on the other five hormones, although anyone reading the 142-page report would undoubtedly wonder why we Americans allow these drugs to be pumped into our own livestock. We probably wouldn't, especially for consumption by those most susceptible to the effects of the hormones, such as children and pregnant women, if most people knew what they were eating. But there are no labeling requirements for these extra ingredients in your hamburger. Regardless of how one assesses the scientific evidence, shouldn't the Europeans be allowed to err on the side of caution if they so choose? Most people would say yes. This case is particularly worrisome because everyone agrees that the law against hormone-treated beef was designed to protect Europe's consumers, not its domestic cattle industry. And the law applies without discrimination to both domestic and foreign producers. Yet the WTO insists that an unaccountable, three-judge panel meeting in secret can overturn a European law simply because it has an adverse impact on trade. The tail (trade) is wagging the dog (public health) here, and this is exactly what environmental, consumer, and labor groups warned would happen when the WTO was created four years ago. If Americans think this is only Europe's problem, they should look at a few key WTO decisions in the last couple of years that have gone against Americans. In 1997 the US Environmental Protection Agency weakened its regulations on contaminants in imported gasoline in order to comply with a WTO ruling that found these rules to be an unfair trade barrier. The enforcement of our Endangered Species Act -specifically, the protection of sea turtles - has also been compromised by recent WTO rulings. From the point of view of big business, and especially large multinational corporations, these are not disturbing developments. For business interests it is only natural to see human beings and our environment as instruments of global trade and commerce. They are quite comfortable with having these decisions made by a tribunal of an international organization where they can have the dominant influence, unencumbered by any congress, parliament, or other elected officials that might have to care what ordinary citizens think. The WTO is their creature, and it has been pretty consistent in taking the side of business against the rights of citizens and the larger community. The dispute over hormone-treated beef is another round of the ongoing fight to assert these rights. It won't be the last. Mark Weisbrot is research director at the Preamble Center in Washington. This story ran on page A23 of the Boston Globe on 08/04/99. ---------------------------------------------------- 2. Chefs cast a skeptical eye on altered food By Alison Arnett, Globe Staff, 08/04/99 Our food and exactly what's in it is shaping up to be the burning issue of the next millennium. And chefs, the come-from-behind superstars of the end of this one, are poised to be our gurus. The storm clouds have been gathering for most of this decade, ever since scientists devised a tomato with a longer shelf life, called it Flavr Savr, and put it on the market. It flopped, but the battle lines, as muddled as in real warfare, began to be drawn. On one side, there is science and industry; on the other, the skeptics who worry about bioengineered vegetables, grains, and even fish. Now the United States and the European Union are locked in a fight over altered foods that threatens to explode into an international trade war. Meanwhile, scientists for Monsanto and other big seed and food companies are genetically engineering corn, soybeans, and other products. Some milk producers inject cows with a growth hormone to increase production. Genes from one species of fish are being spliced with other species to counteract cold water and speed production. Chefs, led by such young lions as Stan Frankenthaler, owner of Salamander in Cambridge, are stepping up, scrutinizing the rush,questioning the results. ''What I feed my customers, my friends, my family is definitely important to me,'' says Frankenthaler, who is the vice chairman of the national Chefs Collaborative 2000. The collaborative, an initiative of Oldways Preservation & Exchange Trust, seeks to promote sustainable cuisine and to encourage eating local and seasonal products. To Frankenthaler and Rick Bayless, chef-owner of Frontera Grill and Topolobampo in Chicago and the collaborative's chairman, it makes perfect sense for restaurateurs to be as concerned with what's in food as with how to be creative and make money from serving it. ''We buy a lot of food,'' says Bayless, and biogenetic engineering ''is definitely going to affect our food supply.'' He adds: ''Chefs are becoming more articulate and more savvy. I don't know all the scientific things, but I can choose whether or not to serve my customers genetically altered food. Right now, there are a lot of questions floating around that we don't have answers for.'' The past decade has seen an upsurge not only in fine dining but in listing the sources of food. Even at fairly modest restaurants, menus now are likely to tout the farms where the green beans were raised, give the provenance of the beef, reveal the source of the strawberries. Chefs have proudly proclaimed relationships with small growers and farmers, many of them organic, and made it a selling point of their food. Their concern about biogenetics is a natural outgrowth. ''I'm bothered by the idea that I don't know the origins of ingredients in my food,''says Frankenthaler. By working with farmers in season, knowing his suppliers, and using as many organic products as he can, Frankenthaler feels he's fairly knowledgeable about origins. But some ingredients, such as soy oil used in frying, would cost three times as much as nonorganic, he says. ''Customers are only willing to bear so much,''he says, adding with a smile, ''It would be difficult to get customers to pay $38 for chicken.'' He buys organic flour, eggs, and canned tomatoes, plus milk produced without growth hormones. The milk issue crystallized his views early in the '90s. ''I became more deeply aware, because of the controversy around the bovine growth hormone, of the seriousness of science being involved in the foodstream.'' Milk - and whether it is affected by the hormone called rBST, used to increase production - has created stronger comment, Frankenthaler thinks, because ''it struck home. Milk is nurturing; it's what you give children. It's supposed to come straight from the cow'' without tampering. Both Frankenthaler and Bayless emphasize that the Chefs Collaborative is not saying that genetic engineering is inherently bad for the food supply. After all, as Frankenthaler says, farmers have crossed seeds and manipulated agriculture for centuries, but ''within the laws of nature.'' Now scientists are able to do amazing things, Bayless says, but some in the agricultural industry and the federal Food and Drug Administration are taking the position that the public should not be worried unless there's proof of damage. Because corn and soybeans, so far the most likely crops to have been genetically altered, are in many processed foods, consumers aren't likely to know or be able to make decisions. On the milk issue, in contrast, there was enough outcry that supermarkets began refusing to stock milk containing rBST. ''Let's just put some brakes on all of this,'' says Bayless. His question: ''Do we want the companies like Monsanto'' making these decisions for us? ''We want labeling, so that people can make their own decisions,'' he adds. And the recent case of monarch butterflies dying after feeding on the pollen of genetically altered corn was a wakeup call, he says, indicating that the seed companies hadn't thought through all the possible results. The question of labeling is under review by the US Department of Agriculture. Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman has said he is reconsidering the labeling issue after the outcry over bovine growth hormones in milk. And the monarch butterfly incident has caused more discussion among the science and industry components. One restaurateur who has chosen to take the purist's approach is Nora Pouillon, owner of the elegant Nora and Asia Nora in Washington, D.C. A national organic commission recently certified her restaurants 95 percent organic, with ingredients ranging from vegetables, milk,cheeses, and meats to items such as salt from Brittany and spices. ''I've been in business 20 years,'' Pouillon says, ''and so it's maybe more economical for me,'' because of rents and long associations with organic suppliers. ''I wouldn't do it any other way,'' she says, adding that one person on her staff is employed only to source organic products. Why chefs, one might ask. ''The answer is, chefs have always been authority figures about food,'' says K. Dun Gifford, whose Oldways organization spawned the collaborative, ''but only in the last decade have they been taken seriously. We pay a lot of money to go eat their food. If food is dangerous, they care deeply.'' As for the premise that the issue is important only to an elite group of chefs and those who pay more for organic products, Gifford angrily replies: ''The people who speak that way about the public are really the snobs. They treat food as a subject important to only rich people.'' Bayless brings the argument back to the consumer. He scoffs at the idea that Americans prefer not knowing about their food sources if that saves them money. ''The US pays less for its food than anywhere else,'' Bayless says. ''Europeans pay a lot more for food, and they won't accept'' hormones or genetic engineering. ''We're on the wrong road'' on prices, Bayless thinks. As a nation of consumers, we need to make sure our food is safe, rather than worrying so much about cost and demanding giant amounts of food. And all consumers, as well as restaurateurs, should have the right to know what's in their food, the chefs agree. For more information, write to Chefs Collaborative 2000, 25 First St., Cambridge, MA 02141, or telephone 617-621-3000, or e-mail: The local chapter president is Ana Sortun, chef of Casablanca in Harvard Square. This story ran on page C01 of the Boston Globe on 08/04/99. ----------------------------------------------------- 3. Vitamin A derivative is added to rice By Karen Hsu, Globe Correspondent, 08/04/99 Developing world seen as beneficiary ST. LOUIS - A bright, yellow-tinted rice genetically engineered to have a vitamin A derivative, with two genes from a daffodil and one from a bacterium, may help reduce vitamin A deficiency, Swiss and German researcher said yesterday. The problem, they said, is particularly severe in developing countries where the major staple food is rice. While vitamin A deficiency is virtually unheard of in the United States and other industrialized countries, 1 to 3 million children die each year from a lack of the vitamin, which is essential for proper functioning of the immune system. Vitamin A deficiency, linked to a variety of infectious diseases, is also the leading cause of blindness in children in the developing world. According to UNICEF, supplementation with vitamin A is estimated to lower a child's risk of dying from several diseases by about 23 percent. More than 100 million pre-school-age children suffer from vitamin A deficiency. After seven years of work, Ingo Potrykus of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology's Institute for Plant Sciences in Zurich, and his colleagues in Freiburg, Germany, achieved production of beta-carotene, which converts to vitamin A in the body, in rice grain by adding three genes to rice plants. The results were announced at the International Botanical Congress in St. Louis, where more than 4,000 scientists are meeting this week to discuss the latest results of plant research. Rice plants normally produce beta carotene, but only in the green parts of the plant, not in the component of rice grain eaten by humans. Beta carotene is found in dark green, leafy vegetables, and is responsible for the yellow and orange color in fruits and vegetables. Although the first successful beta carotene rice grains have not gone through animal or human testing, scientists and public health expert say they believe the results will be ''encouraging.'' Potrykus predicts that the yellow rice should be in the hands of farmers in the next two to four years. ''If the rice is acceptable to the children, it could immediately begin to make a difference.... This is a tremendously important advancement and an extremely valuable tool,'' said Dr. Alfred Sommer, dean of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, who led the research that linked vitamin A to higher death rates in children. The most common sources of vitamin A are meat, eggs, and dairy products - foods that are too expensive or unavailable to most people in developing countries. Following environmental and food safety tests, the new varieties of rice are expected to be distributed free of charge by the Philippines-based International Rice Research Institute and various agricultural research centers in developing countries. Local rice growers, using traditional breeding techniques, will transfer the characteristics of the beta-carotene rice into varieties adapted to local conditions. To battle vitamin A deficiency, UNICEF gives out vitamin A capsules when parents bring their children for immunizations. In addition, some countries have fortified staple ingredients with vitamin A. In Latin America, sugar has been fortified, and in the Philippines, wheat is fortified with vitamin A. But since the results are only proven in the laboratory at this point, UNICEF does not plan to change its focus on supplementation and fortification, a UNICEF official said. But Potrykus' results may force UNICEF to further look into a broader issue: genetically engineered food in general, which has provoked a lot of controversy in Europe and some in the United States. Most genetically altered products are benefiting farmers in the developed world, helping them increase yield, but the practice has not trickled down to developing nations. Schultink said that UNICEF currently does not have an official stand on genetically altered food. On the horizon, said Potrykus, is genetically modified rice with twice the amount of iron. Iron deficiency anemia, the most common nutritional disorder in the world, affects nearly 2 billion people, impairs immunity, and reduces people's mental and physical capabilities. Between 40 and 50 percent of children under 5 in developing countries are iron deficient. To double the iron content in the rice, researchers added a ferritin gene derived from a French bean. Ferritin is an iron storage protein found in many animals and plants. This story ran on page A4 of the Boston Globe on 08/04/99. Send announcements, stories, and notices of interest to: Renewable News Network 44 Norfolk Street Needham, MA 02492 USA Contact: Ross M. Donald 781-453-9668 With "Sol Kitchen" Solar Coffee Can Cooker Kits, its just food. To receive the Environmental Review , or Solar Utilities messages, send an e-mail to rnn@rnn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 11:59:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA02055 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20208 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:02:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20119 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:02:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.134] (br-ppp30.hevanet.com [198.5.254.134]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA27373; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908041501.IAA27373@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:04:28 -0700 Subject: FW: Better Way to Measure Catfish Feed Intake From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1997 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Better Way to Measure Catfish Feed Intake Date: Wed, Aug 4, 1999, 7:25 AM STORY LEAD: A Better Way to Measure Catfish Feed Intake, Growth ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov August 4, 1999 ----------- Tiny glass beads mixed with catfish feed are helping Agricultural Research Service scientists track how food intake affects catfish growth. Research geneticist Jeffrey T. Silverstein, based at the ARS Catfish Genetics Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., developed this technique. Until now, it's been difficult to measure how much food an individual fish eats daily, because all fish are raised together in a pond and fed simultaneously. It's easier to measure feed intake with land animals, because feed can be weighed before and after, and then calculated to determine what each animal consumed, according to Silverstein. Generally, catfish producers record feed intake based on simple observation, but this method assumes that fish consumed all the feed delivered and that they all ate the same amount. Silverstein adapted an innovative technique from salmon feeding studies--tiny glass beads in the feed--and customized it for channel catfish. The opaque glass beads are about 0.4 millimeters in diameter. They are mixed into the feed in low concentrations of about 1 percent of the feed. After feeding, catfish are anesthetized and x-rayed. This allows the beads to be counted so that an accurate feed calculation consumed by each fish can be taken. Fish with superior feed intake and conversion of feed into filet meat can be identified, so this trait can be incorporated into breeding programs. Silverstein has perfected the technique even more by automating the bead counting process. This allows him to view 600 scanned x-ray images a day, versus 200 images over a few weeks when done by hand. Automation is nearly 100 percent accurate. In indoor tank studies ARS scientists found different catfish strains consume feed at different rates. This information will help them to make genetic improvements in channel catfish. An article on the research also appears in the August issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/aug99/feed0899.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Jeffrey T. Silverstein, ARS Catfish Genetics Research Unit, Stoneville, Miss., phone (601) 686-3591, fax (601) 686-3567, jsilvers@ag.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 12:31:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03901 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07250 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:31:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07225 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id IAA17409; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:16:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA01064; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:32:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <948822F0ED8@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> References: <948822F0ED8@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:31:49 -0700 To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: RE: 2,4-Dinitrophenol Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1998 At 8:52 AM +0200 8/4/99, Klaus Wiegand wrote: >so there seems to be some confusion about registration and i would >really like to know, if usage is still allowed > >so to cathy brunetti (if she is reading this): > >may i conclude from the data above, that 2,4-d is used on one >fourth of the total american wheat area and is NOT registered ?? >the chem-usage-file dates from may 99... You may have missed my earlier post to sanet. There seems to be some confusion about the term "2,4-D". "2,4-D" almost always refers to 2,4-diphenoxyacetic acid, a widely used broadleaf herbicide that is available in a number of formulations. 2,4-dinitrophenol, on the other hand, is referred to by the full chemical name and does not appear to have been registered in the United States for several years. *************** Kathy Brunetti To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 12:35:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03977 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15630 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:43:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15621 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.11] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ya020954 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:40:45 -0500 Message-ID: <009101bede91$15e361c0$0b9fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "jim worstell" To: "Jim Weaver" Cc: Subject: Re: government and industry Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:45:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1999 Hal, Ann, Fred, Publius, Cato, et al. The monstrous hybrid of U.S. ag policy is about to disperse billions in a manner which will only deepen the long term crisis for American farmers. Why? Political activists of all stripes are by definition guardians of the virtues, values, assumptions they hold dear. One key assumption common to all political activists is the prime importance of promoting their values and assumptions. The entrepreneurial spirit focuses on innovation to create wealth within it's set of assumptions. Entrepreneurial spirit and the guardian syndrome must know and respect the validity of the other's assumptions. Else a monstrous hybrid is formed whose chief guiding assumption or value is simply its own perpetuation. This hybrid results (as shown by Jane Jacobs in case after case) in destruction of productive innovation and creation of unintended negative consequences. Impoverished regions are invariably gripped by this monstrous hybrid. Understanding these conflicting dynamics and maintaining them in creative tension (as Hal advocated in his "boxed entrepreneur" metaphor) is certainly not the approach of Tyson, IBP, many ag schools and most government bureaucracies. These seek only their own perpetuation by blurring the guardian and commercial sectors. But many environmentalists are no less eager to blur government and commerce. Unfortunately so few both understand the intrinsically alien natures of the guardian and the commercial moral syndromes and see the validity of each. The guardian impulse distributes largesse to the needy. So farmers producing least cost raw commodities get disaster payments, survive to produce another day, big farms are encouraged to expand, more low cost commodities increase the profits of multinational processing companies, marginal farm land stays in production. A program to facilitate development of farmer-owned processing and marketing cooperatives would attack the causes of the farm crisis. But the monstrous hybrid of commercial and guardian syndromes controls ag policy Jim Worstell Delta Enterprise Network www.deltanetwork.org -----Original Message----- From: Jim Weaver To: E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sunday, July 25, 1999 10:55 AM Subject: Re: government and industry >Ann & Others, > >In February at the PASA Conference William McDonough touched on this phenomenon of >government and industry. He refered to the work of Jane Jacobs and a book she wrote >called "Systems for Survival". I was intrigued by this concept so got a copy. It's an >interesting dialog on the moral foundations of commerce and politics. In it (and during >McDonough's keynote speech) the concept of two moral syndromes, one for individuals and >business, the other for government and political leaders. > >Commercial Moral Syndrome > Shun force > Come to voluntary agreements > Be honest > Collaborate easily with strangers and aliens > Compete > Respect contracts > Use initiative and enterprise> Be open to inventiness and novelty > Be efficient > Promote comfort and convenience > Dissent for the sake of the task > Invest for productive purposes > Be industrious > Be thrifty > Be optimistic > >Guardian Moral Syndrome > > Shun trading > Exert prowess > Be obedient and disciplined > Adhere to tradition > Respect hierarchy > Be loyal > Take vengenance > Deceive for the sake of the task > Make rich use of leisure > Be ostentatious > Dispense largesse > Be exclusive > Show fortitude > Be fatalistic > Treasure honor > >These syndromes have evolved over time and Jacobs developes the ideas and concepts in >her book. The most germane to the discussion here is the "monstrous hybrid"-anytime you >mix the two syndromes. The mafia is the classic example. The U.S. government, especially >appointed officials is becoming another. As you read the two you will get little tingles >of where we have hybridized the two. > >I don't have answers to your "why?" and "when?" I offer these syndromes and concepts for >further discussion. > > >Sincerely, > >Jim Weaver>Northern Penn Holistic Management Network >RD#6 Box 205 >Wellsboro, PA 16901 >570-724-7788 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 12:43:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04225 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16624 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:57:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16603 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0308.gamewood.net [206.229.249.71]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11002 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:56:32 -0400 Message-ID: <002701bedea3$71e633a0$47f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: Whole foods Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:01:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2000 Its me again:) If you would like to send a message to Whole foods, use this link: http://discussions.wellengaged.com/we/wholefoods it will allow you to post a message without having to register on their site. Come Aug. 16 you will have to register to post. Amy in VA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 12:58:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA04520 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20198 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:53:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20134 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:53:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7UOWa28698 (3862) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <80ad6499.24d9bbcd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:52:45 EDT Subject: support of sm farmers by large chain stores To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2001 Hello Anita, Mark and Emily, Experience indicates, quality of product, consistency of grade and pack, continuity of supply, diversity of supply, on time delivery and competitive price are the bases of successful produce marketing. Small farmers marketing individually or in coops must in the long haul meet these marketing standards to sell to wholesalers or stores. With the exception of specific "smaller" organic farmers, who really are not "small," few small organic farmers have chosen to meet all these conditions. A lot of the willingness to buy from smaller farmers is based completely on the individual buyer's decision making. Most chain organic produce buyers have a dedication to the freshest product and a few to buying locally offering an advantage to local/regional produce farmers. So, the question must be always asked: can local/regional farmers meet the retail marketers required conditions to provide quality product and maintain shelf life until sold to the customer. On the other hand, many produce buyers are only interested in the simplest way to buy produce--beyond a doubt that is through established distribution firms. Overall the US, Whole Foods and Wild Oats do not appear to have a consistent chain produce buying policy. Over the years, what I found worse about chain store produce buyers was their willingness to buy high quality non-organic product rather than quality local certified organic product. The stores market the high quality non-organic product at the same price as "organically produced" product. The profits are larger selling the non-organic product. Organic is the lead, but the bulk at various times of the year has been non-organically produced. Chains continue to pit organic farmers price structure against conventional high quality product (as well as small organic growers pricing against larger organic growers). A single organic farming consortium produces about 30% of all US organic produce and of the other 70%, 4 other growers supply 40%; in my estimation, what are called small growers provide about 5% of the total produce sold in chains. What has been of more concern to me over the years is that the consumer marketing coops of the US do not: 1. carry very much or the diversity of organic produce, except for Northeast Coop, 2. do not have a policy to buy from local produce farmers, except perhaps for Northeast Coop Consumer coops' memberships, and ownership, for years has placed as their number one request fresh organic produce covering the whole spectrum of crops. The coop management continues to not fulfil their wishes simply because they do not train their employees and establish the refrigeration and truck delivery infrastructure to handle perishable produce. Along with infrastructure and training, a business must make a commitment to build the market among coop clientele. But that would not be very difficult since that is what the membership wants. My experience over many years, as well as others, is that organic produce farmers can more easily break into local/regional store marketing if they lead with high quality, graded and packed highly perishables (sweet corn, spinach, lettuce, herbs, etc.) and/or fruit products. With these products, the shipped in products cannot really compete. On the other hand, the produce farm that is not efficient in biological, mechanical, labor and marketing management just cannot compete with the large producers regarding cost of production and quality of the product. Because of the high capitalization, the many skills one must acquire, the long work hours and the reality of marketing, we have seen very few people go into organic produce farming and I predict will even see less. In the business world, we call it consolidation of business into smaller numbers of producers who grow larger yearly--such is happening in organic produce. To reverse the trend there must be effective, efficient cooperative marketing, which I discuss further on. So, major chains, nationwide, generally do not buy from small organic farmers. But the reasons vary; some are related to the farmer production and post harvest handling systems, some are related to the produce buyers strategy and decision making. One more point: organic farmers marketing coops have experimented with solving diversity, quality, continuity of supply. There are a couple of organic produce farmer coops in the multimillion-dollar sales range and and a few more selling less than a million. However, in the context of organic produce marketing there are a number of shortcomings making most of them "spot" marketers, i.e. marketers for specific products at certain times of the year. Most coops are in climatic regions lacking year round farm production which makes them "spot" marketers, not full line, year round suppliers. These problems could be solved by cooperation between certified farmers across North America. Although, the Organic Farmers Marketing Association has extended this idea for a number of years, no action has been taken. It is my conclusion that for certified organic farmers to successfully market produce in the chain store system; an organic produce marketing agency in common must come into existence. With high-speed telecommunications, cooperative marketing of organic produce from growers to buyers across the US is now possible. Any takers? Best regards, Eric Kindberg To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 15:14:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA07697 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13526 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:14:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13443 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA01877; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:13:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-143.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.143) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001774; Wed Aug 4 13:13:24 1999 Message-ID: <006101bedddb$c59b05c0$b0f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Martha Wells" , Subject: Re: buying local Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:12:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2002 Martha brings up a good point. As well as Lisa who said conventional systems are better oiled. Seasonality of local produce from a store's point of view would be difficult. However the big suppliers need the grocery stores as much as the store needs the supplier. Granted a store would be up a creek if it had nothing to sell. But it does seem like if combination buying became the "norm" Seasonal stuff locally "everything" else from big guy. Granted if the "story" got to the media it would have to be looked at from both sides. But I think the small (but growing) percentage of buyers that buy organic would also be interested in the business practices of the stores they buy from. Most buyers really haven't a clue. Do you learned folks think ag can really keep up the trend it's been on, less farms but huge. Big business without the farming passion? Beth Martha wrote: >I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but I do understand how a large grocer >would need to have a chain of commitment and the local growers normally >aren't prepared for the turnover they need. If they toss out a mega >contract for a seasonal local grower, the contract seller probably won't >try to renew the contract. I know Grocer's Supply has control over many of >the small grocery stores and restaurants in the area. If a local tomato >grower comes to them and wants to sell his produce, if GS finds out, they >have been known to pull their whole vegetable contract from the grocer. >Again, I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but if you intend to go to the >news folk with the way they conduct their business, best to see the problem >from all angles. >martha, Flylo Farms, (Texas) >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/ > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 15:22:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA07163 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04827 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04771 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA06121 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA18345 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:59:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:59:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? In-Reply-To: <37A828A3.1DF2D18E@unicomp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2003 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture Offshoot of the WF thread: > Ditto - same thing in Austin during the Texas Organic Growers annual meeting. Why isn't there a North Carolina Natural Growers ..... instead of a proliferation of "non-profits" :-) :-) :-) claiming to support the market grower and small farmer, that rely on grants, donations and membership fees for survival, and, of course, money from the few "organic" farmers in the state willing to shell out a chunk of their hard earned income to pay for the 3rd party certification - in the face of loss of market share, lowered prices, increased competition from out-of-area companies. We have needed this for a long time and need it even more now. I wish a few of us could figure out a way to get a real organization for North Carolina natural growers started. This would accomodate the organic but non-certified grower who would rely on building credibility and faith amongst consumers who buy from him through csa, local green market, farmers market, direct sales, coop or even brokerage service. Those wanting organic certification would be accomodated as well. Grow locally - sell locally. We are losing growers, farmland and market share here in NC and We need to do something real to shore up small farming as a lifestyle and way of making a living here and all over the US. Eric Kindberg came to NC a few years ago and outlined a very effective plan for accomplishing much of the above. We need to followup on this now. Why are there so few posts originating from North Carolina in this forum? Eric: ----- Ascend the stage. Give us an update on your ideas, a plan for the next millenium for small growers in NC ....and elsewhere. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 16:04:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09627 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06115 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:56:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from e245000n0.hart.k12.ky.us ([170.180.51.76]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05900 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:56:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by E245000N0 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:47:45 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Wiediger, Alison" To: sanet Subject: RE: Whole Foods buying local? Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:47:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2004 Here in KY, 4-5 years ago, we had an organic producers' cooperative called Kentucky Organic Growers. It was sponsored in part by the Burley Cooperative. I participated in it both seasons it was active, was steering committee chair the second season. If anyone is interested in how that worked, and didn't work, the successes and pitfalls, let me know. I learned a lot. Our market was restaurants and subscriptions in our two large metro areas. Our three largest problems were growers not understanding standards and wanting a premium 'because it's organic' regardless of quality, consistent production, and growers too widespread for efficient movement of product. Growing and selling locally is a great idea, but you must have a good market within a reasonable driving distance, and here in KY, that doesn't always happen. I'll be glad to share. Alison Wiediger Au Naturel Farm Smiths Grove, KY > ---------- > From: Lawrence F. London, Jr.[SMTP:london@metalab.unc.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:59 PM > To: sanet > Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? > > > Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm > london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net > http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech > EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture > > Offshoot of the WF thread: > > > Ditto - same thing in Austin during the Texas Organic Growers annual > meeting. > > Why isn't there a North Carolina Natural Growers ..... > > instead of a proliferation of "non-profits" :-) :-) :-) > claiming to support the market grower and small farmer, that rely on > grants, donations and membership fees for survival, and, of course, money > from the few "organic" farmers in the state willing to shell out a chunk > of their hard earned income to pay for the 3rd party certification - in > the face of loss of market share, lowered prices, increased competition > from out-of-area companies. > > > We have needed this for a long time and need it even more now. I wish a > few of us could figure out a way to get a real organization for North > Carolina natural growers started. This would accomodate the organic but > non-certified grower who would rely on building credibility and faith > amongst consumers who buy from him through csa, local green market, > farmers market, direct sales, coop or even brokerage service. Those > wanting organic certification would be accomodated as well. > Grow locally - sell locally. We are losing growers, farmland and market > share here in NC and We need to do something real to shore up small > farming as a lifestyle and way of making a living here and all over the > US. > > Eric Kindberg came to NC a few years ago and outlined a very effective > plan for accomplishing much of the above. We need to followup on this > now. > > Why are there so few posts originating from North Carolina in this forum? > > Eric: > ----- > Ascend the stage. Give us an update on your ideas, a plan for the next > millenium for small growers in NC ....and elsewhere. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 16:04:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09631 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:36:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umx-mail01.missouri.edu (umx-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.221]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25585 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umx-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:36:08 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: UM UOE CAFNR , "'naos'" , "'sanet'" , "'sustainag'" , "'direct-mkt@reeusda.gov'" , "'SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu'" , "'SSFIN'" , veg-prod@reeusda.gov Cc: "Darden, Troy" , "Baker, David E." Subject: Nat'l Small Farm Conference Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:36:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2005 The Second National Small Farm Conference will be held Oct 12-15, 1999 at the Regal RiverFront Hotel in St. Louis, MO. Theme: Building Partnerships for the 21st Century Audience: Providers of information for small and mid-sized farmers Registration: $100 before Aug 16th; $125 after Aug 16th Sponsored by: USDA, Lincoln University, University of MO, Farm Foundation, WK Kellogg Foundation and US EPA For those of you still trying to decide if you want to attend this conference, you might want to check out the descriptions and pictures of the farm tours that have been scheduled for Thursday afternoon of the conference. http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc/tourshome.asp Ask me about the 2nd National Small Farm Conference October 12-15, 1999 St Louis MO http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc debi kelly MAC Debi Kelly, Project Manager Missouri Alternatives Center University of Missouri 531 Clark Hall, Columbia, MO 65211 573-882-1905, 800-433-3704 (MO only) kellyd@umsystem.edu http://agebb.missouri.edu/mac "There's no need to sustain the farm if there's no family to be sustained upon it." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 16:05:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA09646 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06625 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:56:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov [205.156.34.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06503 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mterebus.csc.noaa.gov (205.156.35.22) by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (Worldmail 1.3.167) for sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu; 4 Aug 1999 14:55:29 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990804143949.00b99730@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov> X-Sender: mterebus@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:42:20 -0400 To: From: Megan Terebus Subject: urban gardensl In-Reply-To: <006101bedddb$c59b05c0$b0f86ed1@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2006 I am thinking about starting up an urban garden project here in Charleston, SC. I know that some of you do it. What are some good (general) places to start looking for potential funding? Thanks in advance for the help. -megan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Megan Terebus Farm Program Developer Agricultural Conservation Innovation Center 2234 South Hobson Avenue Charleston, SC 29405 Ph. (843) 740-1326 Fx. (843) 740-1331 email: megan.terebus@agconserv.com www.agconserv.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 16:16:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA10034 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15871 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:10:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f245.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.245]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15780 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 96339 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 19:09:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804190929.96338.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.108.9.129 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:09:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.108.9.129] From: "Emily Young" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: other names for Whole Foods Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:09:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2007 Hello all- FYI, here are the other names that Whole Foods uses across the country: Bread and Circus Fresh Fields Wellspring Grocery Mercahnt of Vino Nature's Heartland The other names for Wild Oats are: Alfalfa's Markets Capers Markets Oasis Fine Foods Sunshine Grocery Uptown Whole Foods Beans, Grains and Things Ideal Market People's Market Nature's Nothwest Food for Thought Cheese n' Stuff Natureworks (This info is from www.wholefoods.com and www.wildoats.com) I am happy to be aware of all this. Emily _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 16:54:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA11025 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:54:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08947 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:51:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08918 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.142] (ppp-206-170-32-142.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.142]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20974 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:51:50 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Gulf "dead zone"/ProMED Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2008 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you lovers of the earth's waters. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DEAD ZONE - GULF OF MEXICO ************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:28:33 -0500 From: Martin Hugh-Jones Source: The Advocate, Baton Rouge, 31 Jul 1999 [edited] Scientists doing research in the Gulf of Mexico have found the largest ever "dead zone," an area where oxygen in the water is so low it cannot support life. As she has for most summers in the past decade, Louisiana Marine Consortium's Nancy Rabalais cruised the gulf off the Louisiana coast mapping the extent of low-oxygen water, a condition called "hypoxia." Rabalais said this year's dead zone is the largest ever found. She said she doesn't know why the dead zone is so big this year. The 1999 dead zone measures 7,728 square miles -- about 12 times bigger than Lake Pontchartrain and 16 times larger than East Baton Rouge Parish. This year's size is much larger than the previously recorded maximum size in 1995 by about 2000 square kilometers, or 700 square miles. Last summer, the dead zone covered less seabed than in the past few years -- about 4,800 square miles -- but went far deeper than ever. This summer, the low oxygen zone stretched west from the Mississippi River delta all the way to near the Texas border, and from close to the shore along most of the Louisiana coast out to 100-foot water depths. The low-level zone was also closer to shore this year than last. Rabalais said the term "dead zone" comes from the lack of sea life such as shrimp, crabs and fish in its bottom waters. Trawling boats were noticeably absent from the extensive area of low oxygen, with the exception of fleets working off the mouth of the Sabine River and west of Atchafalaya Bay, she said. When the bottom oxygen levels fall below 2 parts per million, anything that can swim leaves the area, and trawlers catch nothing. The displaced shrimp are concentrated on the periphery of the dead zone, where trawlers focused their efforts. Animals that cannot escape, such as the clams, snails and worms that live in the mud, eventually die if the oxygen levels fall too low for too long. The mixture of fresh and salt water and the nutrients carried by the Mississippi River system are a large part of the reason Louisiana has the largest fishery in the Lower 48 states. But it seems too many nutrients, such as nitrogen, are flowing into the river system, causing algae blooms that go well beyond what nature can handle, according to Rabalais. Possible sources of that nitrogen include fertilizers used on farms in the Mississippi River valley. Three studies, including one by the U.S. Geological Survey, estimate that more than 50 percent of the nitrogen in the river comes from farming activities. Rabalais said water from the Mississippi and Atchafalaya rivers was easily detectable in the gulf this year because of its much lower salinity and its dense concentrations of phytoplankton, or microscopic algae or plants. The fresh water lies on top of the saltier gulf waters, forming a two-layer system. The phytoplankton flourish in the nutrient-enriched waters. Eventually the phytoplankton die and sink to the bottom, or are consumed by zooplankton, and waste from the zooplankton sinks to the bottom. Bacteria decomposes all that organic matter on or near the bottom, using up the oxygen in the lower waters. Low winds and calm seas occur more commonly in the summer, creating conditions for the persistence of the two-layer system and the development of wide zones of hypoxia off the coast. The hypoxia zones usually last until a tropical storm or cold front mixes the water in all layers. [Byline: Mike Dunne, Advocate staff writer] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 17:26:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA11857 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24991 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:24:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chowan.ces.state.nc.us (chowan.ces.state.nc.us [207.4.150.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24923 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (mrayburn@localhost) by chowan.ces.state.nc.us (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12515 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:23:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Marjorie Rayburn Message-Id: <990804162340.ZM12513@chowan.ces.state.nc.us> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: NC Organic Growers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2009 In North and South Carolina the Carolina Farm Stewardship Association (CFSA) is the organic certification organization. They are also a member organization promoting sustainable agriculture (including organic agriculture). Each year they conduct the Sustainable Agriculture Conference. a 3-day series of meetings workshops , etc. where growers, gardeners, extension personnel, and others can share information on various aspects of sustainable and organic agriculture. They publish a newsletter six times a year highlighting an organic or sustainable operation and presenting updates and other information of value to its members. Contact person for CFSA is Laura Lauffer, executive director - CFSA, P.O. Box 448, Pittsboro, NC 27312 (e-mail: cfsa@intrex.net) There is also an organic growers cooperative that works with organic farmers all over North Carolina to help market organically grown products: Carolina Organic Growers Mark Lewis, Manager Box 11 570 Brevard Road Asheville, NC 28806 Yes, there is a viable, active association concerned with organic agriculture in NC (and SC). It is the Carolina Farm Stewardship Association. They have been a part of a recently completed study of "An Overview of the North Carolina Organic Industry" highlighting the increasing demand for organically produced crops in NC and the opportunities for NC farmers to respond to those demands. There also was an opportunity for NC Extension Agents to learn more about Organic Agriculture, so they could better assist organic farmers and gardeners in their area. This was provided through an in-depth, 4 credit hour course in Organic Farming Systems, organized by specialists in Horticulture, Plant Pathology, and Soil Science (Nancy Creamer, Frank Loews, Keith Baldwin, respectively) during which agents visited organic farms, talked to organic growers, saw what was being done in the area of organic research. As a final project, "students" had to write a grant proposal (SARE, etc.), for on farm research with a farmer in their county or work with a farmer to develop a multi-year farm plan for an organic enterprise. A joint project of the NC Dept of Agriculture, NC State Univ., and NC A&T State Univ. is a large scale, long term research farm in Goldsboro, NC - Center for Environmental Farming Systems which includes a 40 acre organic unit. Just thought you'd like to know what's happening in organic agriculture in North Carolina. Marjorie Rayburn -- Marjorie Rayburn, Area Specialized Agent, IPM E-Mail : mrayburn@chowan Internet: mrayburn@chowan.ces.ncsu.edu Phone: (252) 482-8431 Fax: (252) 482-0126 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 18:50:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA14474 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14300 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14290 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA12447 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA22439 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:43:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:43:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: NC Organic Growers In-Reply-To: <990804162340.ZM12513@chowan.ces.state.nc.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2010 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Marjorie Rayburn wrote: > In North and South Carolina the Carolina Farm Stewardship Association (CFSA) > There is also an organic growers cooperative that works with organic farmers > all over North Carolina to help market organically grown products: They no more even begin to fill the need for an organic grower's trade/support organization for the state's natural growers than Whole Foods does to answer their marketing needs. The above 2 orgs aren't fooling anybody serious about being and surviving economically as a small natural market grower. . To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 19:10:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA14978 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14854 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:29:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14841 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d31-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.31]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA05827; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:28:47 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Wilson, Dale" , Cc: Subject: RE: 2,4-D,different from 2,4- Dinitrophenol Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:33:02 +1000 Message-ID: <000d01bedec9$4fffa7a0$1f3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE68@vela.phibred.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2011 Dale wrote: "2,4-D (that is 2,4 dichlorophenoxy acetic acid), derivatives, and related compounds (synthetic auxins) are much less toxic to animals than dinitrophenol (although they too can uncouple ATP production in high doses). These herbicides are toxic to plants because they mimic the plant hormone IAA (indole acetic acid) triggering destructive mis-cues in tissue growth in the plant." If this is an attempt to argue in favour of the 'much less toxic' 2,4-D, I think it is unfortunate. The product safety information I posted earlier is for 2,4-D not 2,4-Dinotrophenol, I appreciate Kathy's correction of my message which initiated confusion of the two. So regard this as this as about 2,4-D, in wider perspective. Dale, interfering with mitochondrial respiration [uncoupling ATP production] in even a minor way, has wide repercussions. My own research arising from need to deal with my own chronic fatigue makes clear to me the intimate linkage between the respiratory pathway and the steroidogenic pathways, and the overall health of cells. The link to hormone production provides linkage to adrenal disturbance and to thyroid disorder and to reproductive, nervous and immune system symptoms of great diversity, too often addressed with focus on the symptoms and not on the underlying disregulation at cellular level. Note also that the production of ATP also means the production of CO2 which we (English-speaking conventional perspectives) habitually regard as a waste product (used not to be so, see http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/henders.htm , and not so regarded in some European research), but which is fundamental to cellular health. While other messages to the list associate various substances as possible cancer causes, I believe that the pathway to such cellular derangement is via this kind of interference with mitochondrial performance, including sensible apoptosis, now believed to be controlled by mitochondria. Here are a couple of research abstracts regarding the significance of CO2 production. And below that, some references regarding 2,4-D. Dennis ========= A: Regarding CO2 - the point being that this and other chemicals interfere with CO2 production as much as ATP production: Vojnosanit Pregl 1996 Jul-Aug;53(4):261-74 [Carbon dioxide inhibits the generation of active forms of oxygen in human and animal cells and the significance of the phenomenon in biology and medicine]. [Article in Serbo-Croatian (Roman)] Boljevic S, Kogan AH, Gracev SV, Jelisejeva SV, Daniljak IG Carbon dioxide (CO2) influence in generation of active oxygen forms (AOF) in human mononuclear cells (blood phagocytes and alveolar macrophages) and animal cells (tissue phagocytes, parenchymal and interstitial cells of liver, kidney, lung, brain and stomach) was investigated. The AOF generation was examined by the methods of chemiluminiscence (CL) using luminol, lucigenin and NBT (nitro blue tetrazolium) reaction. It was established that CO2 in concentrations similar to those in blood (5.1%, pCO2 37.5 mmHg) and at high concentrations (8.2%, pCO2 60 mmHg; 20%, pCO2 146 mmHg) showed pronounced inhibitory effect on the AOF generation in all the studied cells (usually reducing it 2 to 4 times). Those results were obtained not only after the direct contact of isolated cells with CO2, but also after the whole body exposure to CO2. Besides, it was established that venous blood gas mixture (CO2 - 45 mmHg, +O2 - 39 mmHg, + N2 - 646 mmHg) inhibited the AOF generation in cited cells more than the arterial blood gas mixture (CO2 - 40 mmHg, + O2 - 95 mmHg, + N2 - 595 mmHg). Carbon dioxide action mechanism was developed partially through the inhibition of the OAF generation in mitochondria and through deceleration of NADPH oxidative activity. Finally, it was established that CO2 led to the better coordination of oxidation and phosphorylation and increased the phosphorylation velocity in liver mitochondria. The results clearly confirmed the general property of CO2 to inhibit significantly the AOF generation in all the cell types. This favors the new explanation of the well-known evolutionary paradox: the Earth life and organisms preservation when the oxygen, that shows toxic effects on the cells through the AOF, occurs in the atmosphere. The results can also be used to explain in a new way the vasodilating effect of CO2 and the favorable hypercapnotherapy influence on the course of some bronchial asthma forms. The results are probably significant for the analysis of important bio-ecological problem, such as the increase of CO2 concentration in the atmosphere and its effect on the humans and animals. Izv Akad Nauk Ser Biol 1997 Mar-Apr;(2):204-17 [Carbon dioxide--a universal inhibitor of the generation of active oxygen forms by cells]. [Article in Russian] Kogan AKh, Grachev SV, Eliseeva SV, Bolevich S Studies were carried out on blood phagocytes and alveolar macrophages of 96 humans, on the cells of the viscera and tissue phagocytes (liver, brain, myocardium, lungs, kidneys, stomach, and skeletal muscle), and liver mitochondria of 186 random bred white mice. Generation of the active oxygen forms was determined using different methods after direct effect of CO2 on the cells and biopsies and indirect effect of CO2 on the integral organism. The results obtained suggest that CO2 at a tension close to that observed in the blood (37.0 mm Hg) and high tensions (60 or 146 mm Hg) is a potent inhibitor of generation of the active oxygen forms by the cells and mitochondria of the human and tissues. The mechanism of CO2 effect appears to be realized, partially, through inhibition of the NADPH-oxidase activity. The results are important for deciphering of a paradox of evolution, life preservation upon appearance of oxygen in the atmosphere and succession of anaerobiosis by aerobiosis, and elucidation of some other problems of biology and medicine, as well as analysis of the global bioecological problem, such as ever increasing CO2 content in the atmosphere. ============== B: Regarding 2,4-D >From the Agent Orange Web Site http://www.lewispublishing.com/orange.htm Agent Orange was a 50-50 mix of two chemicals, known conventionally as 2,4,D and 2,4,5,T. The combined product was mixed with kerosene or diesel fuel and dispersed by aircraft, vehicle, and hand spraying. An estimated 19 million gallons of Agent Orange were used in South Vietnam during the war. see also FARMING AT THE AGRICULTURE: ENVIRONMENT INTERFACE, E.Ann Clark, Plant Agriculture, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario (aclark@plant.uoguelph.ca) at http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/www/CRSC/faculty/eac/ohio.htm on Biocides and Birth Defects. See the product infromation at http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/cancer/24d.txt To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 19:40:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA22045 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA25593 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:47:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25577 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.37] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:43:40 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:50:43 -0400 Subject: Whole Foods buying local? From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990804224340852.AAA329@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.37]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2012 The point I want to make in this discussion is not whether or not Whole Foods can or will buy from local growers, but that they should not be using our image of wholesomeness and goodness to sell their mostly conventional products. We small farmers are pawns in the Whole Foods advertising and marketing ploys. They are very good at using phrases such as FREE ROAMING to dupe their customers into believing that ALL their products are organic, when this isn't even close to being reality. I agree with all of you who say that a chain store has buying challenges that small farmers often can't meet. For that matter, most small farmers can make more money, easier, by selling to local consumers. But, when a farmer represents a group able to produce 50,000 pasture-raised broilers annually, with a consistently excellent, USDA packaged product, available every month of the year, then we should at least have an opportunity to talk to a chain store buyer. Instead, Whole Foods continues to buy their chickens from the broiler barns, then resorts to phony advertising such as FREE ROAMING to sell product. Incidentally, the US Department of Agriculture encourages this duplicity by allowing labeling of organic chickens and eggs that are grown in barns without access to any pasture. They also allow labeling of FREE RANGE any time chickens have access to an open door that leads to the barn yard. We should ask USDA to tighten up the labeling requirements. Andy Lee Good Earth Farm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 20:24:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22968 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 20:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16559 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16479 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d31-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.31]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA11410; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:20:39 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Misha" , "SANET-mg" Subject: RE: URL : Pesticides announcement Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:24:55 +1000 Message-ID: <002301beded0$8f700680$1f3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2013 The New York Times web site carries some useful plain language reporting and history on this try http://search.nytimes.com/search/daily/bin/fastweb?getdoc+site+site+27561+3+ wAAA+pesticide%7Eand%7Echildren Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 22:41:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA27685 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13841 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13826 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA26606 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA25965 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:40:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:40:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: NC Organic Growers In-Reply-To: <990804162340.ZM12513@chowan.ces.state.nc.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2014 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Marjorie Rayburn wrote: > ....... (CFSA) And Whole Foods, aka Wellspring Grocery locally, regularly has little fund raisers for cfsa and donates a % of the daily take to them when they _could_ put those $$$ into a revolving loan fund for local small natural growers. The latter option would directly help those _producing_ the food by making it possible for them to continue doing so instead of going into the bank accounts of those _claiming_ to provide support for those growers. WF _could_ make a substantial contribution to the local community and gain credibility and new clients this way. Whole Foods is seeing real competition from chain supermarkets, who do not have any committment to carry the diversity of natural products that Whole Foods does (their house brands are excellent and a real bargain). We would be in a bad way without them. I will always spend my money there even if it costs a little more rather than shop at the supermarkets. Obviously some of their buying practices need to change but I think many folks would be hard put to do without them. I vot NOT to do the 20/20-48 hrs, etc. routine that some have suggested. I think by writing or emailing them, their BOD and their stockholders directly and pointing out the dialogue in this forum to them may do more good that the alternative, heavy-handed approach. If they went under we'd only have the chain stores who may be even harder for small growers to do business with. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 4 23:30:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA28565 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14457 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:29:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14449 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:33:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Biocontrol Compendium Available Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:33:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2015 -----Original Message----- From: Ed Rajotte [mailto:egrajotte@psu.edu] Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 11:32 AM Subject: Biocontrol Compendium Available Website Offers Biocontrol Compendium ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The Cornell Univ. (USA) sponsored website, "Biological Control: A Guide to Natural Enemies in North America," offers a continuously revised, extensive overview of biocontrol agents of insect, disease, and weed pests in North America. At last count the Guide, found at http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/, included photographs and descriptions for approximately 100 natural enemies of pest species. Additional material describes life cycles, habits and other practical information. Authored by C.R. Weeden, _et al_, the site is divided into sections for parasitoids, predators, pathogens, and weed feeders. FMI: C.R. Weeden, Jordan Hall, Cornell Univ., NYSAES, Geneva, NY 14456-0462, USA. E-mail: . Phone: 1-315-787-2253. Ed Rajotte Penn State IPM Coordinator Associate Professor of Entomology 501 ASI Penn State University University Park, PA 16802 email: egrajotte@psu.edu Voice: (814) 863-4641 Fax: (814) 865-3048 IPM website: http://paipm.cas.psu.edu Toll-free IPM information 1-800-PENNIPM (814 863-9393 out of state) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 00:07:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA29162 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 00:07:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA12324 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:16:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA12155 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.18] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id xa022981 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:13:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000901bedef0$958e4980$129fc2d1@jvworstell> From: "Jim Worstell" To: References: Subject: Re: government and industry Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:14:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2016 Maintaining the yin-yang tension between the guardian and commercial moral syndromes is tough. It does not put the innovation of the commercial moral syndrome in a box, but directs it toward regeneration. U.S. ag commodity policy and other monstrous hybrids are easier to create than the dynamic tension. E.g.: Managed healthcare http://www.acponline.org/journals/annals/15mar98/commerce.htm Ron Brown's Commerce Department http://www.reason.com/9706/ed.vip.html energy-efficient design http://www.virginia.edu/~sustain/WMDSpeech-GCAMERICA.html international trade http://www.web.net/~bmilani/MAI.htm When the will to power is in charge, the higher the ideals, the lower the results. Try to make people happy, and you lay the groundwork for misery. Try to make people moral, and you lay the groundwork for vice. Tao Te Ching ----- Original Message ----- From: Hal Hamilton To: E. Ann Clark, Associate Professor ; Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 1:46 PM Subject: RE: government and industry > Ann, Chuck, Fred, etc., > > Just back from a nourishing canoe trip in the Canadian wilderness. RE the thread about the corruption, narrow-mindedness, and idiocy of govt. (example Glickman/Gore on GMOs): Fred's right that we have the best government money can buy, but there's another piece of the puzzle that hasn't been discussed much here. I'm referring to ideology, or world view. Some call it the neo-classical paradigm in economics. Faith in the market, confirmed to all by the collapse of state run economies in the former Soviet bloc. Also frequently confirmed by common sense: would you rather have a bureaucrat or an entrepreneur running the flow of goods and services we all depend on? > > Now don't get me wrong. I'm for creating a "box" within which markets function, with rules of the game that limit perversion of democracy, consumption of nonrenewable resources, and pollution, among other "external costs" of the market. That box has to be democratically accountable government operating with the precautionary principle and the principle of subsidiarity (do it as local as possible). > > But the current world view of most all opinion leaders is decidedly hostile to such a contrarian view. And ideas have power. > > Hal > > Hal Hamilton > Center for Sustainable Systems > 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA > Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 > hhamilton@centerss.org > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 02:31:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA01226 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 02:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA01100 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:31:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cepheus.azstarnet.com (cepheus.azstarnet.com [169.197.56.195]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01002 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 01:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dialup06ip095.tus.azstarnet.com [169.197.32.223]) by cepheus.azstarnet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA20750 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:30:40 -0700 (MST) X-Sent-via: StarNet http://www.azstarnet.com/ Message-ID: <00be01bedf04$afc8fac0$df20c5a9@oemcomputer> From: "Crecencio Elenes" To: Subject: Re: buying local Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:37:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2017 Our farm is called TerraCycle. We are organically growing a variety of vegetables. We are in the process of organic certification. We are marketing in various ways: CSA - limited members to 20; vegetable stand 2x week in nearby retirement community (35 miles away); occasional jaunts to Tucson to farmers markets on Sundays; an organic produce brokerage company; and direct marketing. This sounds like we are running around in circles.....and......we are. Enough background info, now to the matter at hand. We have had different levels of success and failure to direct market our produce to retail sellers. We sell to a Tucson co-op called The Food Conspiracy. They have been extremely important to us in that they have enouraged us to sell to them, they ooh and ahh over our produce which makes us feel really good and encouraged us in our farming. There is also a local IGA grocery store.. Garretts..(independently owned), which has accepted some of our produce but has a difficult time marketing "organic". We approached Reays Ranch market, they were not interested in even talking with us until we became "certified". This past year Reays has now become "wild Oats". They were much friendlier, but are still not interested in our produce until we become certified. I'm not too optimistic they will buy from us once we have obtained organic certification. It has been extremely difficult for us to develop a market for our vegetables. The co-op pretty much saved us our first year. I don't know if they have policy statements regarding "buying local" or not but that is definitely part of their philosophy. Their email is natural@azstarnet.com. -----Original Message----- From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu To: Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 7:55 AM Subject: buying local >This conversation hits home in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'm on the board of directors >for our local natural foods cooperative, Open Harvest, and we're currently >setting policy statements that will direct buying habits of our general manager. >Ideally, we want to go local. There are rumors that a Whole Foods is coming to >town, and we think our push for local foods will not only be healthier for our >community, but also that it will give us a marketing edge over Whole Foods. > >However, we have two farmers on our board, and just last night they were talking >about the difficulties in marketing directly to the retail sector. Obviously, >conventional marketing structures are well-oiled, "efficient" machines, while >"alternative" marketing lacks infrastructure, at least in our area. Our board >farmers highlighted distribution, farmers' marketing skills and consumer >education as some areas needing attention. We need a food broker for local >products, more training for farmers doing direct marketing and a consumer >education campaign, among other things. > >I am wondering if anyone else is involved in locally owned food co-ops -- either >selling to them, buying from them, or directing them -- and if you would share >your experiences. Has your local food co-op contributed to a local food system, >if so how? > >I also work for SARE, and our office in the North Central region is having a >marketing conference to address these issues and others. The conference will be >held Nov. 19-20 in Lincoln. See www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare for more info. Send >me your address if you'd like to receive registration materials. > >Thank you, >Lisa > > >---------------------- Forwarded by Lisa M Bauer/ard/IANR/UNEBR on 08/04/99 >08:55 AM --------------------------- > > > > > >Martha Wells on 08/04/99 07:35:46 AM > > > > To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" > > > cc: (bcc: Lisa M Bauer/ard/IANR/UNEBR) > > > > Subject: buying local > > > > > > > > > >I rarely post to this group but thought this might be of some personal >interest. Here in Bryan Tx, the local 'greengrocer' Mike Scarmado (Farm >Patch) WILL go out of his way to buy organic produce and tries to buy >local. they also have a large warehouse off-site that receives truckload >shipments. They also have a whole valley full of their own farmlands, >growing (commercially) quite a bit of area produce themselves. when we >approached him about buying organic produce he was agreeable. The daily >EARLY shipments come in, he selects the produce, organic first usually, and >will pay a slight premium for quality organic produce. IF you hit his >office after daybreak though, he'll still try to buy your harvest but if >his OG quota is filled for the day, it goes in at regular prices. >I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but I do understand how a large grocer >would need to have a chain of commitment and the local growers normally >aren't prepared for the turnover they need. If they toss out a mega >contract for a seasonal local grower, the contract seller probably won't >try to renew the contract. I know Grocer's Supply has control over many of >the small grocery stores and restaurants in the area. If a local tomato >grower comes to them and wants to sell his produce, if GS finds out, they >have been known to pull their whole vegetable contract from the grocer. >Again, I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but if you intend to go to the >news folk with the way they conduct their business, best to see the problem >from all angles. >martha, Flylo Farms, (Texas) >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/ > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From lrbulluc@unity.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 09:04:38 1999 Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06333 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id IAA25460; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A98A30.680B86F3@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:57:20 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Whole Foods in NC References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2018 I'm at NC State. I conduct research with organic soil amendments, and have worked with Frank Louws, Nancy Creamer (in fact, she has some wonderful equipment that she let me use for my research), and Keith Baldwin. I've had a research plot at the CEFS that Marjorie mentioned, and I've been involved with several field days and courses last year. The first field day was specifically for organic growers, and at least 50 to 60 people showed up. There was a workshop on sustainable agriculture open to all, with many extension agents and farmers (both conventional and organic) in attendance. I do, however, agree that more should be done for growers in the three year transitional period. A commodity group for organic and transitional growers should be started. Maybe a logo (like the "Grown in North Carolina" logo of the tractor and rows forming the state) could be developed for organic and transitionally produced commodities saying "Organically produced in North Carolina." Public education is the key. Our research has shown that organic amendments when correctly applied yield vegetables as well in the first year as synthetic fertilizers do, with lower plant disease. By the way, I live right down the road from Wellspring in Raleigh, and one of the growers that has been at _every_ organic/sustainable workshop or field day I've been involved with has his picture on the wall in the Produce Department. His name is Alex (something, can't remember his last name right now). I do notice a large amount of North Carolina seasonal produce in Wellspring, such as blueberries, strawberries, cantaloupes, and watermelons. I also see alot of produce from out-of-town/overseas! Tomatoes from Holland, and Strawberries from Chile (especially in winter). There is definitely a market for these commodities, especially in urban areas. Rural NC may be less likely to be amenable to organic produce in the local Piggly Wiggly, especially when placed right next to conventionally/industrially produced vegetables that cost less simply because of volume produced. (that's my opinion, not any hard fact or research) "Lawrence F. London, Jr." wrote: > Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm > london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net > http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech > EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture > > Offshoot of the WF thread: > > > Ditto - same thing in Austin during the Texas Organic Growers annual meeting. > > Why isn't there a North Carolina Natural Growers ..... > > instead of a proliferation of "non-profits" :-) :-) :-) > claiming to support the market grower and small farmer, that rely on > grants, donations and membership fees for survival, and, of course, money > >from the few "organic" farmers in the state willing to shell out a chunk > of their hard earned income to pay for the 3rd party certification - in > the face of loss of market share, lowered prices, increased competition > >from out-of-area companies. > > We have needed this for a long time and need it even more now. I wish a > few of us could figure out a way to get a real organization for North > Carolina natural growers started. This would accomodate the organic but > non-certified grower who would rely on building credibility and faith > amongst consumers who buy from him through csa, local green market, > farmers market, direct sales, coop or even brokerage service. Those > wanting organic certification would be accomodated as well. > Grow locally - sell locally. We are losing growers, farmland and market > share here in NC and We need to do something real to shore up small > farming as a lifestyle and way of making a living here and all over the US. > > Eric Kindberg came to NC a few years ago and outlined a very effective > plan for accomplishing much of the above. We need to followup on this > now. > > Why are there so few posts originating from North Carolina in this forum? > > Eric: > ----- > Ascend the stage. Give us an update on your ideas, a plan for the next > millenium for small growers in NC ....and elsewhere. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 09:28:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06717 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05586 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:42:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05521 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-41.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.89]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA28971; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:32:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199908051232.HAA28971@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Patricia Foreman" , "sanet" Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:41:46 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2019 I know how you feel on the meat sales to this guys. I have about a thousand pigs a year. All Federal Inspected. All properly labelled, the whole works. They continue to purchase theirs from Premium Standard Farms and talk about free range and humanely raised. They don't even have to have the open door on the barn to label them free range or free roaming. Only certain square feet requirements in their concentration camps. It is conventional product and a marketing gimmick that they sell. Aren't you one of the scheduled stops for the pasture chicken genetics symposium? I've got a good friend that is going to the conference. Best wishes, Greg Free Range Hog Farmer ---------- > From: Patricia Foreman > To: sanet > Subject: Whole Foods buying local? > Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 5:50 PM > > The point I want to make in this discussion is not whether or not Whole > Foods can or will buy from local growers, but that they should not be using > our image of wholesomeness and goodness to sell their mostly conventional > products. We small farmers are pawns in the Whole Foods advertising and > marketing ploys. They are very good at using phrases such as FREE ROAMING to > dupe their customers into believing that ALL their products are organic, > when this isn't even close to being reality. I agree with all of you who say > that a chain store has buying challenges that small farmers often can't > meet. For that matter, most small farmers can make more money, easier, by > selling to local consumers. But, when a farmer represents a group able to > produce 50,000 pasture-raised broilers annually, with a consistently > excellent, USDA packaged product, available every month of the year, then we > should at least have an opportunity to talk to a chain store buyer. Instead, > Whole Foods continues to buy their chickens from the broiler barns, then > resorts to phony advertising such as FREE ROAMING to sell product. > Incidentally, the US Department of Agriculture encourages this duplicity by > allowing labeling of organic chickens and eggs that are grown in barns > without access to any pasture. They also allow labeling of FREE RANGE any > time chickens have access to an open door that leads to the barn yard. We > should ask USDA to tighten up the labeling requirements. > > Andy Lee > Good Earth Farm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 09:34:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06853 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09275 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:49:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09202 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id HAA10815; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:49:12 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma010167; Thu, 5 Aug 99 07:48:42 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:48:42 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE70@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Argall Family'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: 2,4-D,different from 2,4- Dinitrophenol Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:48:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2020 Dennis, > If this is an attempt to argue in favour of the 'much less > toxic' 2,4-D, I think it is unfortunate. I was attempting to clarify the chemical and toxicological difference between the two chemicals, not support the use of 2,4-D. But as long as you bring it up... > interfering with mitochondrial respiration [uncoupling ATP > production] in even a minor way, has wide repercussions. Most phenolic poisons can uncouple phosphorylation, but it is all a matter of dose. If you OD on 2,4-dinitrophenol (LD50=30mg/kg), the uncoupling will kill you, no doubt about it. If you OD on aspirin (LD50=200mg/kg), the uncoupling will probably kill you, but other effects might get you first. If you OD on 2,4-D herbicide (LD50>1000mg/kg), CNS depression, not uncoupling, will probably kill you, but the petroleum distillate in the formulation might get you first. Uncoupling phosphorylation is an acute, high-dose hazard caused by gross disturbance of the mitochondrial inner membrane. There is not much reason to think, nor any evidence as far as I know, that this is an insidious environmental threat. > My own research arising from need to deal with my own chronic > fatigue makes clear to me the intimate linkage between the > respiratory pathway and the steroidogenic pathways,... Theory will only get you so far. When they actually feed high doses of 2,4-D esters or amines to mammals, the chemical doesn't seem very dangerous, not from an acute, nor from a carcinogenic perspective. The biggest danger is splashing the concentrated formulation in your eyes, which can cause real injury. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 09:41:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA06985 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11886 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:54:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11842 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04448 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id IAA25460; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37A98A30.680B86F3@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:57:20 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Whole Foods in NC References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2021 I'm at NC State. I conduct research with organic soil amendments, and have worked with Frank Louws, Nancy Creamer (in fact, she has some wonderful equipment that she let me use for my research), and Keith Baldwin. I've had a research plot at the CEFS that Marjorie mentioned, and I've been involved with several field days and courses last year. The first field day was specifically for organic growers, and at least 50 to 60 people showed up. There was a workshop on sustainable agriculture open to all, with many extension agents and farmers (both conventional and organic) in attendance. I do, however, agree that more should be done for growers in the three year transitional period. A commodity group for organic and transitional growers should be started. Maybe a logo (like the "Grown in North Carolina" logo of the tractor and rows forming the state) could be developed for organic and transitionally produced commodities saying "Organically produced in North Carolina." Public education is the key. Our research has shown that organic amendments when correctly applied yield vegetables as well in the first year as synthetic fertilizers do, with lower plant disease. By the way, I live right down the road from Wellspring in Raleigh, and one of the growers that has been at _every_ organic/sustainable workshop or field day I've been involved with has his picture on the wall in the Produce Department. His name is Alex (something, can't remember his last name right now). I do notice a large amount of North Carolina seasonal produce in Wellspring, such as blueberries, strawberries, cantaloupes, and watermelons. I also see alot of produce from out-of-town/overseas! Tomatoes from Holland, and Strawberries from Chile (especially in winter). There is definitely a market for these commodities, especially in urban areas. Rural NC may be less likely to be amenable to organic produce in the local Piggly Wiggly, especially when placed right next to conventionally/industrially produced vegetables that cost less simply because of volume produced. (that's my opinion, not any hard fact or research) "Lawrence F. London, Jr." wrote: > Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm > london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net > http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech > EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture > > Offshoot of the WF thread: > > > Ditto - same thing in Austin during the Texas Organic Growers annual meeting. > > Why isn't there a North Carolina Natural Growers ..... > > instead of a proliferation of "non-profits" :-) :-) :-) > claiming to support the market grower and small farmer, that rely on > grants, donations and membership fees for survival, and, of course, money > >from the few "organic" farmers in the state willing to shell out a chunk > of their hard earned income to pay for the 3rd party certification - in > the face of loss of market share, lowered prices, increased competition > >from out-of-area companies. > > We have needed this for a long time and need it even more now. I wish a > few of us could figure out a way to get a real organization for North > Carolina natural growers started. This would accomodate the organic but > non-certified grower who would rely on building credibility and faith > amongst consumers who buy from him through csa, local green market, > farmers market, direct sales, coop or even brokerage service. Those > wanting organic certification would be accomodated as well. > Grow locally - sell locally. We are losing growers, farmland and market > share here in NC and We need to do something real to shore up small > farming as a lifestyle and way of making a living here and all over the US. > > Eric Kindberg came to NC a few years ago and outlined a very effective > plan for accomplishing much of the above. We need to followup on this > now. > > Why are there so few posts originating from North Carolina in this forum? > > Eric: > ----- > Ascend the stage. Give us an update on your ideas, a plan for the next > millenium for small growers in NC ....and elsewhere. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 09:59:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA07488 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23888 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:16:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23807 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FEA9E9@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 9:13:26 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 5 Aug 99 09:16:06 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 5 Aug 99 09:15:43 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:15:34 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Whole Foods buying local In-reply-to: <199908041057.GAA19289@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <6D2522F5E20@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2022 Greg, It is clear that you have made a lot of effort to get your local product into Whole Foods without success yet. I just have one suggetion, and that is that you *write* your request, rather than phone it again. It is my experience that businesses take letters much more seriously, always respond to them, and in so doing you get a paper trail going. If this does reach 60 Minutes-20/20 proportions (and I hope you weren't just blowing off steam with the mention of these programs!) you will definately want a paper trail. I mean, I hope it doesn't need to get there, but if a well-written, well-thought out letter doesn't get results in plan A (shelf space), it might in plan B (air time)! In fact, I hope that eveyone who is having such difficulties will start to write letters (it's easy, just push the "print" button instead of the "send" button) and then keep copies of these letters and the responses they illicit. Anita > It is high time someone calls them on their marketing gimmick. Because its > too often the case that they don't even buy products that are > natural/organic/or anything. They are conventional, non-local, and a huge > premium. Its a joke. I'd be willing to forward my phone bill on to anyone > that would like to see documentation. I've left at least one message a > week to the Meat buyer for Wild Oats stores since March. I did get one > return call and got explained how it was often too difficult to work with > local farmers on meat and how they can't effectively distribute products. > I already go by their stores! I've even left a message for their CEO. My > next call is to 20/20, 60 minutes, or 48 hours. I'm drawing very near to > making that call. I go by several of their stores on my Chicago delivery > route and quite often I have boneless butterfly chops left over. It is too > convenient for them to get their pork from Premium Standard Farms I guess. > Yes, they are the third largest confinement operation in the country and > the largest environmental polluter in the Midwest. I too have set in on > their "speech" about buying local. Its a load of crap. > Best wishes, > Greg Gunthorp > Free Range Hog Farmer > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 10:03:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07576 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22594 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:12:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f23.hotmail.com [207.82.250.233]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22573 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 73540 invoked by uid 0); 5 Aug 1999 13:11:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990805131158.73539.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.112 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 06:11:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.112] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Ag School Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 06:11:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2023 Hi! Can anyone tell me what they know of the Dutch school Wageningen, in terms of their Ecological Agriculture studies? (At the Graduate level--it looks very good, but I am not at all familiar with it) Thanks so much, Jane _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 10:09:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA07693 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00655 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:24:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00650 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05190 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp73.green.eri.net [207.90.124.137]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA72138 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003301bedf47$cd286040$897c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: buying local Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:38:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2024 Hi all, On this note it hits me home as well also. We are not having much success in our home town as well. We have a community farmers market in its first year and things are a little slow. I don't do any direct marketing yet but this is the report I am getting. I recommend visiting the following Coop site. Seems like they are making it work. After viewing this please give me your views. Thanks, Smitty Go with God -----Original Message----- From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 10:59 AM Subject: buying local >This conversation hits home in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'm on the board of directors >for our local natural foods cooperative, Open Harvest, and we're currently >setting policy statements that will direct buying habits of our general manager. >Ideally, we want to go local. There are rumors that a Whole Foods is coming to >town, and we think our push for local foods will not only be healthier for our >community, but also that it will give us a marketing edge over Whole Foods. > >However, we have two farmers on our board, and just last night they were talking >about the difficulties in marketing directly to the retail sector. Obviously, >conventional marketing structures are well-oiled, "efficient" machines, while >"alternative" marketing lacks infrastructure, at least in our area. Our board >farmers highlighted distribution, farmers' marketing skills and consumer >education as some areas needing attention. We need a food broker for local >products, more training for farmers doing direct marketing and a consumer >education campaign, among other things. > >I am wondering if anyone else is involved in locally owned food co-ops -- either >selling to them, buying from them, or directing them -- and if you would share >your experiences. Has your local food co-op contributed to a local food system, >if so how? > >I also work for SARE, and our office in the North Central region is having a >marketing conference to address these issues and others. The conference will be >held Nov. 19-20 in Lincoln. See www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare for more info. Send >me your address if you'd like to receive registration materials. > >Thank you, >Lisa > > >---------------------- Forwarded by Lisa M Bauer/ard/IANR/UNEBR on 08/04/99 >08:55 AM --------------------------- > > > > > >Martha Wells on 08/04/99 07:35:46 AM > > > > To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" > > > cc: (bcc: Lisa M Bauer/ard/IANR/UNEBR) > > > > Subject: buying local > > > > > > > > > >I rarely post to this group but thought this might be of some personal >interest. Here in Bryan Tx, the local 'greengrocer' Mike Scarmado (Farm >Patch) WILL go out of his way to buy organic produce and tries to buy >local. they also have a large warehouse off-site that receives truckload >shipments. They also have a whole valley full of their own farmlands, >growing (commercially) quite a bit of area produce themselves. when we >approached him about buying organic produce he was agreeable. The daily >EARLY shipments come in, he selects the produce, organic first usually, and >will pay a slight premium for quality organic produce. IF you hit his >office after daybreak though, he'll still try to buy your harvest but if >his OG quota is filled for the day, it goes in at regular prices. >I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but I do understand how a large grocer >would need to have a chain of commitment and the local growers normally >aren't prepared for the turnover they need. If they toss out a mega >contract for a seasonal local grower, the contract seller probably won't >try to renew the contract. I know Grocer's Supply has control over many of >the small grocery stores and restaurants in the area. If a local tomato >grower comes to them and wants to sell his produce, if GS finds out, they >have been known to pull their whole vegetable contract from the grocer. >Again, I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but if you intend to go to the >news folk with the way they conduct their business, best to see the problem >from all angles. >martha, Flylo Farms, (Texas) >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/ > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 10:35:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA08813 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04462 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:34:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04419 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05384 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp73.green.eri.net [207.90.124.137]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA75182 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004a01bedf49$332f5820$897c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: Whole Foods buying local? Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:48:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2025 Would like more info but not sure how to get in contact with you. You can e-mail me at ps@ erinet.com Thanks, Smitty -----Original Message----- From: Wiediger, Alison To: sanet Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 3:58 PM Subject: RE: Whole Foods buying local? > >Here in KY, 4-5 years ago, we had an organic producers' cooperative called >Kentucky Organic Growers. It was sponsored in part by the Burley >Cooperative. I participated in it both seasons it was active, was steering >committee chair the second season. If anyone is interested in how that >worked, and didn't work, the successes and pitfalls, let me know. I learned >a lot. Our market was restaurants and subscriptions in our two large metro >areas. Our three largest problems were growers not understanding standards >and wanting a premium 'because it's organic' regardless of quality, >consistent production, and growers too widespread for efficient movement of >product. Growing and selling locally is a great idea, but you must have a >good market within a reasonable driving distance, and here in KY, that >doesn't always happen. I'll be glad to share. > >Alison Wiediger >Au Naturel Farm >Smiths Grove, KY > > >> ---------- >> From: Lawrence F. London, Jr.[SMTP:london@metalab.unc.edu] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 12:59 PM >> To: sanet >> Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? >> >> >> Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm >> london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net >> http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech >> EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture >> >> Offshoot of the WF thread: >> >> > Ditto - same thing in Austin during the Texas Organic Growers annual >> meeting. >> >> Why isn't there a North Carolina Natural Growers ..... >> >> instead of a proliferation of "non-profits" :-) :-) :-) >> claiming to support the market grower and small farmer, that rely on >> grants, donations and membership fees for survival, and, of course, money >> from the few "organic" farmers in the state willing to shell out a chunk >> of their hard earned income to pay for the 3rd party certification - in >> the face of loss of market share, lowered prices, increased competition >> from out-of-area companies. >> >> >> We have needed this for a long time and need it even more now. I wish a >> few of us could figure out a way to get a real organization for North >> Carolina natural growers started. This would accomodate the organic but >> non-certified grower who would rely on building credibility and faith >> amongst consumers who buy from him through csa, local green market, >> farmers market, direct sales, coop or even brokerage service. Those >> wanting organic certification would be accomodated as well. >> Grow locally - sell locally. We are losing growers, farmland and market >> share here in NC and We need to do something real to shore up small >> farming as a lifestyle and way of making a living here and all over the >> US. >> >> Eric Kindberg came to NC a few years ago and outlined a very effective >> plan for accomplishing much of the above. We need to followup on this >> now. >> >> Why are there so few posts originating from North Carolina in this forum? >> >> Eric: >> ----- >> Ascend the stage. Give us an update on your ideas, a plan for the next >> millenium for small growers in NC ....and elsewhere. >> >> >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 10:50:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA09091 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19599 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:00:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19533 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp2.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.102]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA29780 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:55:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003601bedf4a$50048500$664b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "sanet" References: <19990804224340852.AAA329@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.37]> Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:56:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2026 Andy Lee wrote: >Incidentally, the US Department of Agriculture encourages this duplicity by allowing labeling of organic chickens and eggs that are grown in barns without access to any pasture. They also allow labeling of FREE RANGE any time chickens have access to an open door that leads to the barn yard. We should ask USDA to tighten up the labeling requirements. Hardly fair to lay the entire blame with the USDA on this one, although I'm hardly a fan of theirs....Can anyone tell me if there are any PRIVATE organic certifiers that require pasture-access for livestock at all? (dairy cattle, laying hens, and now meat animals). This sort of loophole in private standards has allowed confinement production of organic products before meat was allowed to be labeled "organic". I believe that one California certifier rather vaguely encourages it, but requiring & suggesting pasture access is another matter. I think that this is definitely something that should be focussed on and REQUIRED, as the USDA standards are formed. It seems to me that this would give an edge to smaller farmers who actually graze their stock, pay taxes on their pastures, etc. rather than the Horizon-dairy type operations who with their huge numbers would be hard-pressed to entertain such a practice. Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 11:10:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA10483 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07067 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:32:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07032 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00FEBBD4@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:28:54 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 5 Aug 99 10:31:33 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 5 Aug 99 10:31:16 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:31:14 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: getting local product into chain stores In-reply-to: <199908041952.PAA09074@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <6D394911745@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2027 > Experience indicates, quality of product, consistency of grade and pack, > continuity of supply, diversity of supply, on time delivery and competitive > price are the bases of successful produce marketing. Small farmers marketing I've been so pleased and impressed by the quality of information and ideas that this thread has generated. We must all do what we can to get the big stores to be open to the idea of actually buying and shelving product from small sustainable growers, but it is also clear that small producers must also do their part in what has become a very savvy and sophistocated game. I think that any kind of grassroots effort on our parts (letters to Whole Foods, etc) must bare this in mind. It is important to say "buy local," but the effort can't stop there. There must be a plan that takes into account the interests of both sides. At the very least, there probably needs to be more coordination among local and otherwise small growers to market their products. I'm thinking that maybe growers could get the big store to agree to a certain amount of shelf space or other such market opportunity to "local" food which could be filled either by contract with a local farmer or farmer co-op or on a first-come, first-served basis (and in exchange the store could take advantage of legitamate good PR). But in some way there needs to be some guarantee of consistency and quality for the grocer if more than a token space is to be given. I hope that Eric Kindberg hears from people regarding his idea of an organic produce marketing agency. In the meantime, I would encourage farmers and farmer groups to come up with a reasonable proposal that they could fulfill and which would take into consideration the needs and constraints of the grocer and then present this proposal IN WRITING to the store or store chain. I look forward to seeing what others have to say in this regard and seeing what other better-thought-out ideas are out there! Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 11:53:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13228 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27267 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:06:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27154 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00889; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908051504.IAA00889@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:05:08 -0700 Subject: FW: Russian Honey Bees Readied for American Hives From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List , Maritime Pacific Northwest Gardens Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: D X-Keywords: X-UID: 2028 Forwarded for the interest of list members. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Russian Honey Bees Readied for American Hives Date: Thu, Aug 5, 1999, 7:06 AM STORY LEAD: Breeder Readies Russian Honey Bees for American Hives ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov August 5, 1999 ----------- Hardy Russian honey bees that resist attack by devastating varroa mites will begin showing up in American beehives within a year, thanks to scientists in Louisiana with the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief research wing. The Russian bees' genetic resistance will provide beekeepers with a tool--in addition to chemical pesticides--to control the mites. Varroa mites--eight-legged parasites--are among the worst enemies of honey bees worldwide. In the U.S., the mites have attacked bees in almost every state. Though only about one- sixteenth-inch in size, they can destroy a hive of tens of thousands of bees in as little as 6 months. The mites have also eliminated most of North America's wild honey bees. Under a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement signed this week by ARS and Bernard's Apiaries, Inc., Breaux Bridge, La., bee breeder Steven J. Bernard is authorized to raise hundreds of Russian honey bee queens this fall and winter. The bees will be available for sale to U.S. beekeepers early next year. The beekeepers will use the queens to produce more queens for populating hives with mite-resistant offspring. These offspring will be fathered by male bees, known as drones, from the American hives. Compared to domestic honey bees, the Russian bees are more than twice as resistant to attack by varroa mites, according to tests by geneticist Thomas E. Rinderer and colleagues at ARS' Honey Bee Breeding, Genetics and Physiology Research Unit in Baton Rouge, La. The domestic honey bee and the Russian honey bee are the same species, Apis mellifera. But the Russian bees have had to develop resistance to survive in their homeland, the mite-infested Primorsky region of far eastern Russia. Rinderer studied the bees there, then imported them under a federal permit. He said it is likely that wild--as well as domesticated--honey bees in the U.S. will eventually have Russian honey bee parentage. Besides producing honey, honey bees pollinate dozens of crops, from apples to zucchini, worth $8 to $10 billion. An article in the August issue of the agency's monthly magazine, Agricultural Research, tells more. View it on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/aug99/bees0899.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Thomas E. Rinderer, ARS Honey Bee Breeding, Genetics and Physiology Research Unit, Baton Rouge, La., phone (225) 767-9280, fax (225) 766-9212, trinderer@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 15:02:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19317 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:02:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07924 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:05:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f133.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.133]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA07870 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23308 invoked by uid 0); 5 Aug 1999 18:04:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990805180420.23307.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.108.9.129 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 11:04:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.108.9.129] From: "Emily Young" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: seed companies and insectaries Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 11:04:20 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2029 Hello All- First, I would just like to say that I am overwhelmed by the responses to my question about WF and small farmers. Thank you so much for all the imput. I have loved watching the thread progress. It is fun to be a part of such a sincere, engaged, and concerned group. The responses have helped me tremendously with my internship. As part of my project, I am compiling a list of contacts for sustainable agriculture. On the web I have found a list of beneficial insectaries as well as seed companies.I feel, however, that this list would not be useful to someone in the future because it is not backed by recommendations. I would like to direct this inquiry to the farmers: Which insectaries and seed companies do you use, if any? and also, while I am at it, are there organizations you use for support or information? Thank you again for all your help, Sincerely, Emily _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 15:02:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19323 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:02:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08922 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:07:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08856 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11539 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.182]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA61585 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009601bedf6f$3b0379c0$897c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: Fw: buying local Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:20:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2030 Hi again, Sorry for that incomplete message before. I had left out the web site of (what sounds like) a VERY SUCCESSFUL Coop. Their site is bloomingfoods.org . I think it's worth the time to check it out. Go With God, Smitty Emily, my e-mail again is ps@erinet.com -----Original Message----- From: Emily Young To: ps@erinet.com Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Fw: buying local >Paul- > >I am not sure if it is just on my browser but the coop site that you mention >is not listed in the message. Would you mind e-mailing it to me again? > >Thanks, > >Emily > > > >>From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" >>To: "Sanet" >>Subject: Fw: buying local >>Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:38:27 -0400 >> >>Hi all, >> On this note it hits me home as well also. We are not having much >>success in our home town as well. We have a community farmers market in its >>first year and things are a little slow. I don't do any direct marketing >>yet but this is the report I am getting. >> I recommend visiting the following Coop site. Seems like they are >>making >>it work. >>After viewing this please give me your views. >>Thanks, >>Smitty >>Go with God >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu >>To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >>Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 10:59 AM >>Subject: buying local >> >> >> >This conversation hits home in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'm on the board of >>directors >> >for our local natural foods cooperative, Open Harvest, and we're >>currently >> >setting policy statements that will direct buying habits of our general >>manager. >> >Ideally, we want to go local. There are rumors that a Whole Foods is >>coming >>to >> >town, and we think our push for local foods will not only be healthier >>for >>our >> >community, but also that it will give us a marketing edge over Whole >>Foods. >> > >> >However, we have two farmers on our board, and just last night they were >>talking >> >about the difficulties in marketing directly to the retail sector. >>Obviously, >> >conventional marketing structures are well-oiled, "efficient" machines, >>while >> >"alternative" marketing lacks infrastructure, at least in our area. Our >>board >> >farmers highlighted distribution, farmers' marketing skills and consumer >> >education as some areas needing attention. We need a food broker for >>local >> >products, more training for farmers doing direct marketing and a consumer >> >education campaign, among other things. >> > >> >I am wondering if anyone else is involved in locally owned food co-ops -- >>either >> >selling to them, buying from them, or directing them -- and if you would >>share >> >your experiences. Has your local food co-op contributed to a local food >>system, >> >if so how? >> > >> >I also work for SARE, and our office in the North Central region is >>having >>a >> >marketing conference to address these issues and others. The conference >>will be >> >held Nov. 19-20 in Lincoln. See www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare for more >>info. >>Send >> >me your address if you'd like to receive registration materials. >> > >> >Thank you, >> >Lisa >> > >> > >> >---------------------- Forwarded by Lisa M Bauer/ard/IANR/UNEBR on >>08/04/99 >> >08:55 AM --------------------------- >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Martha Wells on 08/04/99 07:35:46 AM >> > >> > >> > >> > To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" >> > >> > >> > cc: (bcc: Lisa M Bauer/ard/IANR/UNEBR) >> > >> > >> > >> > Subject: buying local >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >I rarely post to this group but thought this might be of some personal >> >interest. Here in Bryan Tx, the local 'greengrocer' Mike Scarmado (Farm >> >Patch) WILL go out of his way to buy organic produce and tries to buy >> >local. they also have a large warehouse off-site that receives truckload >> >shipments. They also have a whole valley full of their own farmlands, >> >growing (commercially) quite a bit of area produce themselves. when we >> >approached him about buying organic produce he was agreeable. The daily >> >EARLY shipments come in, he selects the produce, organic first usually, >>and >> >will pay a slight premium for quality organic produce. IF you hit his >> >office after daybreak though, he'll still try to buy your harvest but if >> >his OG quota is filled for the day, it goes in at regular prices. >> >I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but I do understand how a large grocer >> >would need to have a chain of commitment and the local growers normally >> >aren't prepared for the turnover they need. If they toss out a mega >> >contract for a seasonal local grower, the contract seller probably won't >> >try to renew the contract. I know Grocer's Supply has control over many >>of >> >the small grocery stores and restaurants in the area. If a local tomato >> >grower comes to them and wants to sell his produce, if GS finds out, they >> >have been known to pull their whole vegetable contract from the grocer. >> >Again, I'm not taking up for Whole Foods but if you intend to go to the >> >news folk with the way they conduct their business, best to see the >>problem >> >from all angles. >> >martha, Flylo Farms, (Texas) >> >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/ >> > >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >>command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >> > >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >>command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 15:20:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19835 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:28:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f51.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA20515 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 33045 invoked by uid 0); 5 Aug 1999 18:26:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19990805182654.33044.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.108.9.129 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 11:26:54 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.108.9.129] From: "Emily Young" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: farmers markets Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 11:26:54 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2031 Hello Again- One more question comes to mind, If I could ask..... I am from Berkeley, California. The Berkeley Farmers Market is sponsored by a non profit, The Ecology Center. The Center promotes the market, sells booths to farmers, and regulates the activity of the market, i.e. who is allowed to sell. I am told that other farmers markets are sponsored by something such as the Chamber of Commerce. When this is the case, the market is often not as focused on organics, I have heard. (?) I am interested in the support for farmers markets. I wonder if you all could tell me who is responsible for the farmers markets that you participate in, whether it be an organization, or a town. Is there a fee to participate or guidelines to what venders can sell? Is there a general farmers market organization of some sort that helps start markets in new areas? Thanks for anything you could share, Emily _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 15:37:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20464 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:31:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amarron.propagation.net (IDENT:root@[216.221.160.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21622 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.52 (mx3-38.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.52]) by amarron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA31685; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:30:27 -0500 Message-ID: <37A9DB65.A14@smallfarms.com> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:43:50 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: buying local, whole food, smallfarms.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2032 Hi: The discussion on buying local, whole foods, bottle necks in distribution, erroneous claims about products is prevasive in the food business. We farm also. Please see: www.smallfarms.com It's a marketing web site for small farmers and ranchers. The farmer needs to get closer to the customer in order to do the kind of consumer education that's necessary for informed decision making to take place. The cost is $29.00 / year. A news release follows. Please tell other small farmers and ranchers about smallfarms.com. We'll need a site full of small farm and ranch products to attract customers and have their return business. Thank you. glenn CONTACT: Glenn S. Oshiro smallfarms.com P.O. Box 3027 Honokaa, Hi. 96727 (808) 775-9473 glenn@smallfarms.com web site: smallfarms.com SMALL FARMERS AND RANCHERS SELL through the INTERNET. Honokaa, Hawaii. July 22, 1999 Small farmers and ranchers will be listing their products on the internet site, smallfarms.com, beginning September 1. And they will not need computers, web sites or e mail. For the estimated 20% of farmers with computers, they can have their products listed and have the option of being linked to smallfarms.com. At $29.00 per year the cost is low. Consumers will be able to find farmers close to their homes and across the country using this locator system. After locating a farmer and his product on smallfarms.com, the consumer can contact the farmer via phone, e mail, fax or conventional mail. Consumers will deal directly with the growers of their foods and purchase directly from the farmers. For many consumers faced with limited choices at their supermarkets and safe food issues, discovering organic, sustainable products will become an adventure rather than an ordeal. One agricultural expert called the smallfarms.com concept, a novel idea. In addition to foods at smallfarms.com, farmers and ranchers are also listing farm related goods and services such as ranch accommodations and even books written by farmers. These non traditional initiatives are important income generating efforts for many farm businesses today. The construction of the smallfarms.com web site is taking place in Denver, Co., and is proceeding ahead of schedule. The principals of smallfarms.com, Glenn S. and Kathleen E. Oshiro, are small farmers who are identified with Oshiro Enterprises, Inc., a forty-year-old, family owned Hawaii corporation. CONTACT: Glenn S. Oshiro glenn@smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 16:34:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21984 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24277 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:30:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA24221 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990805193439.15373.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.221] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:34:39 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Fwd: farmers markets To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: claire.klotz@usda.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2033 Emily et al. It's worth taking a look at the the Agricultural Marketing Service pages -- one for farmer markets and the other for direct marketing http://www.ams.usda.gov/directmarketing/ http://www.ams.usda.gov/farmersmarkets/ Claire Klotz has been working hard on getting information together on these topics, and I find it very useful to reference. It might not answer your questions, but it can help get you there. I recommend contacting the North American Farmers' Direct Marketing Association -- they are busy working on your questions/concerns right now. I pasted the contact/description at the end of this email. Kirsten Saylor Sustainable Agriculture Network Beltsville, MD --- Emily Young wrote: > From: "Emily Young" > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: farmers markets > Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 11:26:54 PDT > > Is there a general > farmers market organization of some sort that helps > start markets in new > areas? > > Thanks for anything you could share, > > Emily > > North American Farmers' Direct Marketing Association http://www.nafdma.com NAFDMA provides an organization and environment which promotes and fosters the growth of farm direct marketing by offering opportunities for education, networking, and fellowship to its members. NAFDMA ongoing commitments are to: 1. Be a primary source of information on farm direct marketing 2. Support sustainable growth of farm direct marketing 3. Encourage open dialog within all facets of the farm direct marketing industry 4. Be a supportive public voice for members and the industry at large 5. Provide support for the further development of existing regional associations 6. Encourage formation of new regional and local associations Charlie Touchette, Executive Director 62 White Loaf Road Southampton, MA 01073 Phone: (413) 529-0386 Toll-Free: 1-888-884-9270 Fax: (413) 529-2471 E-mail: nafdma@map.com _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 16:54:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA22967 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05655 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05593 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:49:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21166; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20366; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:49:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:49:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Emily Young cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: seed companies and insectaries In-Reply-To: <19990805180420.23307.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2034 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Emily Young wrote: > I would like to direct this inquiry to the farmers: Which insectaries and > seed companies do you use, if any? Ask Sal Schettino, an organic farmer; sals@rain.org. See his homepage. > and also, while I am at it, are there organizations you use for support or > information? Appropriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas (ATTRA) in Fayetteville Arkansas. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 19:55:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27381 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06523 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:05:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay.interim.iamworld.net (relay.interim.iamworld.net [204.91.241.82]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06513 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:05:26 -0400 (EDT) From: hawiaa@access.digex.net Received: from LOCALNAME (pool-209-138-47-17.bltm.grid.net [209.138.47.17]) by relay.interim.iamworld.net (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA244749; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.16.19990805191012.0d4fea86@pop.iamdigex.net> X-Sender: 10005843@pop.iamdigex.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (16) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 19:10:12 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Alternative Agric News Aug 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2036 August 1999 Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, #117 Greenbelt, MD 20770 (301) 441-8777 E-mail: hawiaa@access.digex.net Web site: http://www.hawiaa.org * * * If You Are Interested in Sustainable Agriculture... In addition to this monthly newsletter, the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture publishes the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, a quarterly, peer-reviewed journal of research on alternative agriculture. It is a scientific forum for disseminating technical, economic, and social research findings about the character and requirements of alternative agriculture systems. The factors, challenges, and obstacles in organic farmers' decision-making are featured in the new issue (Volume 14, No. 1). Other articles cover evaluation of farmers' perceptions of soil quality indicators, farmers' attitudes towards sustainable agriculture issues and environmental quality in a selected area of Bangladesh, rice and wheat production in Pakistan with effective microorganisms, a profile of an organic farm in Sweden, and commentary on whether precision agriculture is sustainable. Subscriptions to AJAA are $44 for libraries, $24 for individuals, and $12 for students; contact the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Rd., #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; e-mail . Table of Contents Canada Introduces National Organic Standard, p. 1 Rockefeller Foundation Asks Monsanto to Stop "Terminator" Gene, p. 2 U.S. Farm Policy Has Caused "Accelerating Damage" Writes Berry, p. 3 USDA Commission to Hold "Listening Sessions" in September, p. 3 Organic Standards Board Seek Nominations, p. 3 Resources, p. 3 Glickman Calls for Review of USDA's Biotech Approval Process, p. 4 Leopold Center is Requesting Proposals, p. 4 Biocontrols Will Tackle Saltcedar Weeds, p. 4 Positions, p. 4 Upcoming Events, p. 5 CANADA INTRODUCES NATIONAL ORGANIC STANDARD The Government of Canada has introduced a new National Standard of Canada for Organic Agriculture that "can be recognized and applied in markets around the globe," according to John Manley, the Minister of Industry who is responsible for the Standards Council of Canada. "For Canadian producers of organic agri-foods produce, this will translate to greater and easier access to international markets that demand these kinds of standards." The standard was developed through the Canadian General Standards Board's Standards Committee on Organic Agriculture, which includes various technical experts, and announced through the Standards Council of Canada, which promotes efficient and effective standardization. The standard "outlines principles for organic agriculture that endorse sound production and management practices to enhance the quality and sustainability of the environment and ensure the ethical treatment of livestock." Specifically, it prohibits the use of ionizing radiation in the preservation of food, prohibits the use of genetically engineered or modified organisms, encourages maximum use of recycling, and encourages maximum rotation of crops and promotion of biodiversity. The scope of the standard includes production plans and records; crop and livestock production; production requirements for maple products, honey, greenhouse crops, mushrooms, sprouted plants, and wild and natural products; the production and processing of organic products; and the packaging, labeling, storage, and distribution of organic food products. "This new National Standard of Canada will provide consumers with a consistent meaning for 'organic,' helping them to make more informed choices," said Lyle Vanclief, Canadian Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. An abstract of the Standard is available on the Internet at ; to order copies of the entire Standard (listed as CAN/CGSB-32.310), contact CGSB Sales Centre, Ottawa, Canada K1A 1G6; (819) 956-0425; e-mail . ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION ASKS MONSANTO TO STOP "TERMINATOR" GENE The Rockefeller Foundation has asked the Monsanto Company to stop using the "terminator" gene, which makes plant seeds sterile, according to The Wall Street Journal (June 28, 1999). "Work on the terminator gene is controversial among rural development groups because it would prevent farmers from keeping some of their harvest for seed, a common practice in poor regions," the article said. "Gordon Conway, president of the New York foundation, appealed to Monsanto's directors at a board meeting in Washington. Dr. Conway's speech was the first time the Rockefeller Foundation has taken a public stand on the terminator gene, and it is now the most prestigious organization to turn against it." Dr. Conway said in an interview that he is worried that the backlash over the terminator gene is damaging public support for crop biotechnology in general, which might slow research that could benefit poor farmers overseas, according to the article. The Rockefeller Foundation is spending more than $100 million on crop biotechnology projects. Dr. Conway said that putting labels on foods that contain ingredients from genetically modified crops would help ease consumer fears about biotechnology. "I'm very worried we'll see a movement to ban field trials," he said. "If we don't have field trials, we can't figure out the benefits and risks." U.S. FARM POLICY HAS CAUSED "ACCELERATING DAMAGE," WRITES BERRY This country's farm policy has failed farmers, "as demonstrated by the past 40 or 50 years of accelerating damage," according to an op/ed piece in The New York Times by Kentucky farmer and writer Wendell Berry (July 6, 1999). "We have lost farmers in staggering numbers, mainly because of economic adversity," he wrote. "For generations we have given nothing to farm-raised children but reasons to leave home. Our farm communities have disintegrated everywhere. Ninety percent of our cropland is losing topsoil to erosion faster than the replacement rate. Our failed small farms have been replaced by chemical-dependent monocultures and animal factories, which have become major sources of pollution....I cannot see why a healthful, dependable, ecologically sound farm-and-farmer-conserving agricultural economy is not a primary goal of this country. I know that I am not alone, and that farmers are not alone, in wishing to see such a policy....Any politicians who now think that only farmers care about farming or have an interest in it are wrong. They will have to think again." USDA COMMISSION TO HOLD "LISTENING SESSIONS" IN SEPTEMBER The Commission on 21st Century Production Agriculture will hold three public listening sessions in September "to gather stakeholder input on the future of agricultural policy in the United States after 2002." The sessions will be in Chicago, IL, September 21; Montgomery, AL, September 23; and Scranton, PA, September 25. To appear before the Commission, participants must register through the Commission's Web site at , or by contacting the Commission, Public Listening Session Sign-Up, Room 3702 South Building, 1400 Independence Ave., SW, Washington, DC. 20250-0524. More information is available on the Web site or from Tim Peters at (202) 720-4860. ORGANIC STANDARDS BOARD SEEKS NOMINATIONS The USDA seeks nominations to fill four upcoming vacancies on the National Organic Standards Board. Written nominations and resumes must be postmarked by September 20. More information is available on the NOSB's Web site at , or from Keith Jones, National Organic Program, (202) 720-3252. RESOURCES "Organic Agriculture: The Credible Solution for the XXIst Century," the proceedings of the 12th international IFOAM scientific conference, is $28 from IFOAM's Web site at ; for more information, e-mail . "The Benefits of Biodiversity" is $15 plus $3 shipping from Council for Agricultural Science and Technology, 4420 West Lincoln Way, Ames, IA 50014-3447; (515) 292-2125. "Impacts of Adopting Genetically Engineered Crops in the U.S.--Preliminary Results" is available on the USDA Economic Research Service's Web site at . "Farmer Grants, 1993 to 1999," a summary of grants in the Northeast SARE Region, is free from Northeast SARE, 10 Hills Building, University of Vermont, Burlington, VT 05405- 4656; (802) 656-0471; e-mail . "Hoop Structures for Gestating Swine" is $5 from Andrea Jahn, 219 BioAg Eng, 1390 Eckles Ave., University of Minnesota, St. Paul, MN 55108; (612) 625-9733. GLICKMAN CALLS FOR REVIEW OF USDA'S BIOTECH APPROVAL PROCESS Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman last month called for an independent scientific review of the USDA's biotech approval process to ensure that "our scientists have the best information and tools to ensure our regulatory capabilities continue to evolve along with advances in the new technology." In a speech at the National Press Club, Glickman said the USDA will propose establishing regional centers to evaluate biotech products over a long period of time and to provide information to growers, consumers, researchers, and regulators. He also requested "all developers of biotech products to report any unexpected or potentially adverse effects to the Department of Agriculture upon discovery," and established a Secretary's Advisory Committee on Agricultural Biotechnology. The committee will include people from government, academia, production agriculture, agribusiness, and ethical, environmental and consumer groups to provide advice on biotech issues and policies. LEOPOLD CENTER IS REQUESTING PROPOSALS The Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture is seeking proposals for its Competitive Grants Program, which funds research, education, and demonstration projects. The deadline for submissions is Thursday, September 2. Funding for approved projects will begin on July 1, 2000. More information is available from the Center, Iowa State University, 209 Curtiss Hall, Ames, IA 50011-1050; (515) 294-3711; e-mail . BIOCONTROLS WILL TACKLE SALTCEDAR WEEDS Researchers at the USDA's Agricultural Research Service have placed about 3,000 eggs of Chinese leaf beetles in experimental field cages in six states as the first step in a biological control program for the invasive weed saltcedar, according to the USDA. Saltcedar has infested rivers and streams in the West and increases soil salinity, changes streamflows, and increases wildfire frequency. Saltcedar was brought to this country in 1837 to protect streambanks from erosion, but has spread enough to be crowding out plants crucial to wildlife. The leaf beetles eat only Old World species of saltcedar, according to the ARS. When the beetles are ultimately approved for release outside cages, they should spread out several hundred feet a year to infest other saltcedar plants. POSITIONS Organic Crop Improvement Association seeks an Internal Director and an External Director; for more information, contact OCIA Board of Directors Search Committee, 1001 Y St., Suite B, Lincoln, NE 68508-1172; (402) 477-2323; or e-mail Dave Welsch, . Center for Rural Affairs seeks a Project Leader for its Agriculture Policy Project; contact CRA, P.O. Box 406, Walthill, NE 68067; (402) 846-5428; or e-mail Jon Bailey, . McGill University seeks applications for an Assistant Professor, Agricultural and Environmental Sciences, Department of Plant Pathology; contact Dr. Diane Mather, Chair, Search Committee, Department of Plant Science, McGill University, Macdonald Campus, 21,111 Lakeshore Rd., Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC, Canada H9X 3V9; e-mail . West Virginia University seeks a research assistant in organic farming research; contact Dr. B.S. Baker, P.O. Box 6108, WVU, Morgantown, WV. 26506-6108; (304) 293-4817; e-mail . Louisiana State University seeks an Assistant/Associate Professor, Natural Resource Economics; contact Dr. Kenneth W. Paxton, Professor and Head, Department of Agricultural Economics and Agribusiness, LSU, Baton Rouge, LA 70803-5604; (225) 388-3282. Drumlin Farm seeks a livestock manager; contact Stacy Miller, Drumlin Farm, South Great Rd., Lincoln, MA 01773; (781) 259-9506 ext. 7700; e-mail . UPCOMING EVENTS August 27-29, "Seed Saving: From Seed to Seed" will be held in Occidental, CA; contact Occidental Arts and Ecology Center, 15290 Coleman Valley Rd., Occidental, CA 95465; (707) 874-1557. August 28-September 12, permaculture design course will be held at the Black Foot Nation Indian reservation, Montana; contact International Institute for Ecological Agriculture, 834 West California Way, Woodside, CA 94062; (650) 365-2993; e-mail . September 9-11, "Income Opportunities from Specialty Products: Agroforestry in the Northeast" will be held in Portland, ME; contact Mark Hews, Threshold to Maine Resource Conservation and Development Area, 67 Shaker Rd., Gray, ME 04039; (207) 657-3131. September 10-12, Biointensive Sustainable Mini-Farming Workshop will be held in Willits, CA; contact Ecology Action, 5798 Ridgewood Rd., Willits, CA 95490; (707) 459-0150. September 10-13, 11th International Exhibition of Natural Nutrition, Health, and the Environment will be held in Bologna, Italy; contact Fiere E Comunicazioni, SANA Secretariat, Via San Vittore, 14-20123 Milano, Italy; e-mail ; phone 39/02/86451078-867408. September 13-15, "Composting and Organics Recycling--Strategies for Project Success," the BioCycle Northeast Conference, will be held in Portland, ME; contact BioCycle, 419 State Ave., Emmaus, PA 18049; 1-800-661-4905. September 14-16, USDA's Rangeland, Pasture & Forages National Program will hold a workshop in Kansas City, MO; contact Nadine Kessler, ARS-National Program Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 4-2270D, Beltsville, MD 20705-5140; (301) 504-4636; e-mail . September 18, "From Farm to Fork: Reclaiming Our Food System From Corporate Giants" will be held in Bloomington, MN; contact Suzanne McIntosh, Clean Water Action, 326 Hennepin Ave. E., Minneapolis, MN 55414; (612) 623-3666. September 23-25, "Reweaving the World," the 11th Annual International Conference of the Society for Ecological Restoration, will be held in San Francisco, CA; contact SER, 1207 Seminole Highway, Suite B, Madison, WI 53711; (608) 262-9547. September 27-29, "Alliance for Environmental Stewardship: A Comprehensive Approach" will be held in St. Louis, MO; contact Richard Reynnells, USDA/CSREES, (202) 401-5352, e-mail ; or Nickolas Zimmerman, University of Maryland, (410) 651-9111, e-mail ; on the Internet, . September 30-October 3, "The Hope of the Harvest is in the Seed," the 20th Annual Conference of the American Community Gardening Association, will be held in Philadelphia, PA; contact Patricia Schrieber, Philadelphia Green, (215) 988-8841; e-mail . To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 19:59:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27435 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:59:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10011 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:09:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09946 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17109 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-7.ofrf.org (ofrf7.tychonet.com [205.179.36.7]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id QAA25724 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:08:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jane@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990805153647.0094d300@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: jane2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 16:06:58 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: scratchin' chooks and vintage research In-Reply-To: <199908031311.IAA01368@billman.kuntrynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2037 Greg wrote: >I would strongly suggest you go to the University library and pick up some >old books on poultry production. ... The research has already been done to >demonstrate the effectiveness of various pasture species in non-ruminant animal >production. And, I would add, has already been done on many low-input technologies. The North Central region SARE call for proposals last year contained a specific request for projects that locate data from old research that can be utilized in this neo-organic era. If anyone knows of any such projects that were funded, why don't you post a message and tell us what you're digging up? I also recommend that folks look carefully at the old ag station and land grant bulletins and reports from way back when to glean ideas for approaches we can use now--or discard as not worthwhile. Jane Sooby technical program coordinator Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-426-6606 831-426-6670 fax 831-460-9713 home www.ofrf.org jane@ofrf.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 20:49:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA01892 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14791 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:02:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14778 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d15-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.15]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02817; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:00:59 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Wilson, Dale" Cc: Subject: RE: 2,4-D,different from 2,4- Dinitrophenol Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:05:18 +1000 Message-ID: <000001bedf9f$5ded9d00$0f3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE70@vela.phibred.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2038 Dale wrote: "Theory will only get you so far. When they actually feed high doses of 2,4-D esters or amines to mammals, the chemical doesn't seem very dangerous, not from an acute, nor from a carcinogenic perspective. The biggest danger is splashing the concentrated formulation in your eyes, which can cause real injury. I suggest that there is something less than theory in that statement, Dale. I think it is more sensible to adopt the cautionary approach from product information, as below. Note that the list is of symptom outcomes, without discussion of the systemic derangement causing symptoms. The symptoms do not arise out of the air and some theoretical discussion of systemic causes is important. Or you can discuss with the Agent Orange crowd, for a blizzard of contrary argument. I really don't understand an agenda of dismissing what are sensible community concerns about a deteriorating chemical environment as a result of chemical treatments for narrow purposes, lacking regard for holistic scientific perspectives. Or do you question the foundation of that - that we are confronted with a massive increase in industrially produced chemicals in the environment? All science is theory; the great errors arise when theory is taught as fact, when fact is treated as dogma and becomes the basic assumptions of new research and hypothesis. It is not extremist, but sensibly scientific to question the broader ecological impact of products produced and marketed with very narrow 'scientific' claims as to their benefits. We stopped x-raying children's feet and tonsils way back, as we stopped bathing people in DDT; we've stopped dumping chemicals under houses. I don't think the room for hindsight has vanished. I don't think it helps when a case is made for the 'safety' of products which does not EVEN match the official product warnings. That can only make people doubt more. Dennis ====== The Hazard Summary http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/cancer/24d.txt reads: HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION Acute Health Effects The following acute (short term) health effects may occur immediately or shortly after exposure to 2,4-D: * Skin or eye contact can cause irritation. * Overexposure can irritate the throat and lower airways. Symptoms include headache, nausea, vomiting, poor appetite, sweating, fever and diarrhea. Muscle damage with tenderness, weakness and twitching can occur. Other effects include damage to the kidneys and liver and effects on the nerves to the arms and legs, with weakness and poor coordination. Chronic Health Effects The following chronic (long term) health effects can occur at some time after exposure to 2,4-D and can last for months or years: Cancer Hazard * 2,4-D causes MUTATIONS (genetic changes). Such chemicals may have a cancer or reproductive risk. In fact there is limited evidence that 2,4-D causes cancer of the breast and other sites in animals. Non Hodgkin's lymphoma have been observed in farmers occupationally exposed to 2,4, D. * Many scientists believe there is no safe level of exposure to a carcinogen. Such substances may also have the potential for causing reproductive damage in humans. Reproductive Hazard * 2,4-D may damage the developing fetus. * There is limited evidence that 2,4-D is a teratogen in humans and animals. Until further testing has been done, it should be treated as a possible teratogen in humans. * 2,4-D may decrease fertility in males. Other Long Term Effects * Skin allergy to 2,4-D may develop. If this happens, even low future exposure can lead to rash and itching. * Repeated exposure can lead to patchy areas of loss of skin pigment, and to kidney and liver damage. Lung effects (airway narrowing, emphysema) have also been reported. Thinning of the lining of the throat (atrophy) can also occur from the repeated irritation. [and from the end of the document] DISTRIBUTION AND PERSISTENCE IN THE ENVIRONMENT 2,4-D is moderately persistent in water, with a half-life of between 20 to 200 days. The half-life of a pollutant is the amount of time it takes for one-half of the chemical to be degraded. About 91.7% of 2,4-D will eventually end up in water; about 3.3% will end up in aquatic sediments; about 3.5% will end up in terrestrial soil; and the rest will end up in the air. BIOACCUMULATION IN AQUATIC ORGANISMS Some substances increase in concentration, or bioaccumulate, in living organisms as they breathe contaminated air, drink contaminated water, or eat contaminated food. These chemicals can become concentrated in the tissues and internal organs of animals and humans. The concentration of 2,4-D found in fish tissues is expected to be much higher than the average concentration of 2,4-D in the water from which the fish was taken. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 21:53:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06403 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22361 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:04:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emerald.tufts.edu (pmdf@emerald.tufts.edu [130.64.1.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22256 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by emerald.tufts.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #U3521) with SMTP id <0FG000N01QYQQK@emerald.tufts.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 21:04:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Hugh Joseph Subject: Community Food Security Conference Announcement In-reply-to: <2afb902c.24db4c15@aol.com> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: X-Envelope-to: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAA22284 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2039 > Conference Announcement: > To receive a conference brochure, contact: Community Food Security > Coalition, 310-822-5410, asfisher@aol.com > > Community Food Security Coalition Annual Conference: Toward a Democratic and > Just Food System > October 14-17, Chicago, IL > > The Community Food Security Coalition returns to Chicago for its annual > conference five years after its founding. Come Thursday for the Follow the > Food Chain field trips, with stops at highlights of Chicago's food system, > as well as to gain some practical skills at the afternoon's short courses. > Stay Friday for USDA's National Summit on Community Food Security, where > hundreds of activists will unite to make comprehensive commitments to cut > American hunger in half by the year 2015. On Saturday and Sunday, our > conference continues, packed with exciting activities including a nationally > prominent keynote speaker, sixteen educational workshops, a main plenary on > the global food system, a reception with homegrown food and Chicago blues, > and our annual membership meeting. > > Workshop Topics Include: > Are We Partners Yet? A Roundtable Discussion of Coalition and USDA > Efforts to Achieve Food Security > Building a National Community Food Security Policy Agenda > Cultivating Grassroots Growth of the Community Food Security Movement > Finding Common Ground between Anti-hunger and CFS Advocates > Food Banking for Self-Sufficiency and a Sustainable Food System > Getting the Word Out: Marketing Your Project > Grow It/Buy it/Store It: Preserving the Bounty Simply and Cheaply > Healthy Farms, Healthy Kids: Buying From Local Farmers to Improve the > Quality of School meals > Inner-city Supermarket Development: New Initiatives and Partnerships > Successful Urban Agriculture Models: Comparisons and Future Directions > The Soul of Agriculture > Urban Harvest: Intensive Growing on Abandoned Lots and Urban Wild Plants > What does Biotechnology hold for Community Food Systems? > What is Community Food Security? Defining Concept and Practice. > > The main plenary will be: > Regaining Control: Community Food Security Strategies in a Global Food System > > An increasingly corporate and global food system is harmful to the nation's > family farmers, the environment, the integrity of communties, and the health > of consumers. How can we regain control over the food system before it's too > late? Are we doing enough by developing model projects as alternatives to the > dominant food system? Or are we just fiddling while Rome is burning? Should > we develop a more explicitly anti-corporate agenda? > > Moderator: Molly Anderson, Tufts University > Speakers: Anuradha Mittal, Food First > Bill Heffernan, University of Missouri > Jules Pretty, University of Essex > Debbie Field, Foodshare > > Short course topics: > How to Develop a Business plan for Your Food Enterprise > Assessing your community's food system > Organizing on Local Food Policy > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 5 22:26:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA06821 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19470 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:47:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [216.12.0.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA19442 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 5790 invoked from network); 6 Aug 1999 01:41:44 -0000 Received: from c1s1m47.cfw.com (HELO cfw.com) (216.12.49.48) by milo.cfw.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 1999 01:41:44 -0000 Message-ID: <37AA3E80.472E88A0@cfw.com> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 21:46:40 -0400 From: Jeff Ishee X-Sender: "Jeff Ishee" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Avery/Salatin Debate Transcripts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2040 I would like to announce to the list that an anonymous donor has covered the cost of transcribing a recent two-hour debate between Dennis Avery and Joel Salatin. Thanks to the donor and also to Craig Cramer who is working on posting the complete debate, word-for-word, at the Sustainable Farming Connection website. Give him a little time to code it for HTML, and it should be up as soon as possible. http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection If you are looking for a no-holds barred, thought-provoking, sparks-a-flying debate about modern agricultural policies and practices, you'll want to make this a priority on your reading list. Thanks again to the anonymous donor and to Craig Cramer, and to all of you for your interest in this debate. A one-page sample follows below. The complete debate is 24 typewritten pages. Sincerely, Jeff Ishee Farm Director, WSVA Radio P.O. Box 752 Harrisonburg, VA 22801 www.valleyradio.com/agri ************************ portion of debate (all transcribed word-for-word) (on the topic of organic vs. conventional foods relating to cancer risks) Avery: There are varying shades of gray, black, and white, but really, I mean that . . . for example your cancer scare. It's out the window, and yet you guys are sticking with it. Salatin: You're trying to suggest . . . Avery: Where is the cancer threat? Salatin: I can show you report after report after report, and I know people who have died from pesticide exposure and from herbicide exposure. We have a lot of customers . . . Avery: Joel, you don't know of any such thing. Salatin: Of course I do. I talk with these people. Avery: You believe it, but . . . Salatin: Look, you can sit there in front of a computer all day, and you can look at your statisticians and you databases, but I know people. If you don't live in that world, that's not the real world. That's a fantasy world of government flying around, jetting around the country telling people what's going to happen in fifty years by looking at databases and reading scientific journals. We have customers that come to us from medical doctors with environmental sensitivities caused by residues, hormones, call it what you will, pesticides, herbicides . . . Avery: Or allergies. Salatin: Or allergies, but most of them are not. They are sensitivities to the problems, and whether it's food dye number 29 or whatever, that's in food. These are our friends. There are not part of any computer database. Avery: I had a letter from a lady in Indianapolis who said that organic food had saved her life twice, because she'd had cancer twice. (laughs) I thought the organic food was supposed to prevent her from getting cancer, and that recovering from cancer should reflect some credit on her doctors. She really believed that eating organic food had cured her from cancer twice, having gotten cancer twice. I mean, this is not a rational reality. Salatin: It is irrational, it is absolutely irrational, to think that there is nothing about a chicken or a pig or a cow that is unique, and that is any different than a computer or a robotic machine. That is not real. Avery: Who is saying that? Salatin: Well, you are. Avery: Oh, heavens no. Biology is . . . Salatin: You don't care about humane . . . Avery: Biology is infinitely more complex than a robot or a computer. Salatin: Ahhh. Yes. So biology and industry are different. And yet the whole predication of genetically modified organisms, irradiation, and everything else you are espousing, it's all predicated on a philosophy that animals and plants are simply machines. Avery: No. No. No. No. No. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 00:39:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08786 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06904 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06866 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac3.wam.umd.edu (root@rac3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.143]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06829 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac3.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA10436 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10432 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:51:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac3.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:51:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Brooks Gruver To: sanet Subject: stability in agroecosystems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2041 Hello to all... I am wondering if anyone is familiar with studies that looked at the population dynamics of non crop species in early succession agroecosystems. Are there studies that showed that under extended periods of uniform management/ecosystem disturbances (e.g. a long term cropping experiment with annual crops), populations of some non-crop species tended to stabilize while others did not ? Certainly there are studies of changes in weed and arthropod populations over time in long term experiments. Can anyone refer me to an article in which non-crop species population dynamics over time are discussed in terms of cropping system sustainability/unsustainability ? Joel Gruver Soil Quality Research U of MD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 01:49:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA09575 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 01:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06513 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06410 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21587 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA09120 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 01:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA13711 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:50:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:50:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: scratchin' chooks and vintage research In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990805153647.0094d300@mail.scruznet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2042 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Jane Sooby wrote: > And, I would add, has already been done on many low-input technologies. The > North Central region SARE call for proposals last year contained a specific > request for projects that locate data from old research that can be > utilized in this neo-organic era. If anyone knows of any such projects that > were funded, why don't you post a message and tell us what you're digging > up? I also recommend that folks look carefully at the old ag station and > land grant bulletins and reports from way back when to glean ideas for > approaches we can use now--or discard as not worthwhile. Preston Sullivan, of ATTRA, put together an organic farming bibliography while at NCSU. I have a copy of this online at: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/literature/organic-farming.bibliography/ You can download 7 small files or the whole thing as a 1 meg. file. The database is a little hard to interpret but it contains many good references with a quantity from the early 1900's. Its worth browsing and may have useful poultry references. Here's a sample: Rutherford, D. M. Chicken-bee-game bird-vegetable-orange grower. Pacific Rural Press Mar 1942 143:205 (3/21/42) Anderson, R. This farm is a factory; the Honeggers show how one family can practice "vertical diversification" now. Farm J Feb. 1944 68(2):23 Finn, H. Livestock in fruit and vegetable growing. Farmer and Stock-Breeder Feb. 1, 1944 Browne, E.N. The small-scale diversified farm, a worthwhile pattern for Australia. Rur Life June 1952 Garner, F.H. Market gardening on the mixed farm. Farmer and Stock-Breeder Ybk. 1955 Bell, R. Hens and cows earn more together. Big Farmer Winter 1965 Benne, E. J. Understanding the myth of organic farming (Nutrients are supplied by mineral fertilizers). Hoard's Dairyman. Aug. 1979. Morgan, H. Mixed farming for maintaining soil structure and fertility. So Austral Dept Agr J Aug. 1951 McCallum, N.S.K. Natures recipe for soil fertiity; organic matter must be returned. Land [Sydney] Feb. 9, 1945 Butler, T. How to get rich lands; humus; how to keep up and increase the supply. Prog F Jun. 30, 1917 Dutcher, R. Fertilizer won't replace humus. Farmer-Stockman Oct. 1945 Cooke, G.W. The roles of organic manures and organic matter in managing soils for higher crop yields: a review of the experimental evidence. In Proc Intl Seminar on Soil Environ and Fertility Mgt in Intensive Agric 1977 p. 53-64 Wheeting, L.C. Organic matter is keystone of healthy soil. Idaho Farmer Feb. 3, 1949 Stone, A.L. Weed seeds in manure. Hoard's D Aug. 13, 1920 Graber, L.F. Lime and legumes as weed destroyers. Hoard's D Feb. 1920 Whitehead, S. B. What we may learn from weeds. Field Aug. 1943 Gallup, C. M. Farm wisely like the Indians. Land [Baltimore] Spring 1945 Luckiesh, M. Destruction of insects by light traps. Electrical World Jun. 1933 Bunting, A.H. Fertilizers: Dr. Bunting replies to Sir Albert Howard. Country Life [London] Aug. 18, 1944 96:284-285 Petterson, B., and E. Wistinghausen. Effects of organic and inorganic fertilizers on soils and crops. Results of a long-term field experiment in Sweden. Woods End Agricultural Institute, Temple, ME, Misc. Pub. #1 1979 44p. Dowdy, R. H. and Larson, W. E. Metal uptake by Barley seedlings grown on soils amended with sewage sludge. J Environ Qual Apr/Jun. 1974 4(2):229-233 Baker, R. Biological control: eradication of plant pathogens by adding organic amendments to soil. CRC handbook of pest management in agriculture. 1981 317-327 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 07:35:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA14233 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12588 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:44:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from msue.msu.edu (msue.msue.msu.edu [35.8.2.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12519 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:44:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smalley (smalley3.user.msu.edu [35.10.78.136]) by msue.msu.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4) with SMTP id GAA36825 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:43:35 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990806063917.006e4df8@msue.msu.edu> X-Sender: smalley@msue.msu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 06:39:17 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Susan Smalley Subject: Marketline -- Announcement and Requests for Information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2043 Hi SANet members -- I'm writing to let you know about an exciting project that's just beginning in Michigan and to ask you for some information that will help us. First, the project: Michigan Integrated Food & Farming Systems (MIFFS) has received funding from USDA Rural Development's Rural Enterprise Grant program for Marketline. The project will provide technical assistance to expand market capabilities of Michigan entrepreneurial food-based ventures. Marketline will develop a comprehensive database listing both Michigan farms with agricultural products to sell and food businesses seeking specific Michigan-grown products. Interested people will be able to access this database by both a searchable web page and a toll-free telephone hotline. Marketline will also provide workshops to help Michigan farmers and food entrepreneurs build skills and network. Farms and food businesses from across Michigan may participate in the project, with ten counties especially targeted. Now my questions: 1) We keep hearing about similar projects in other parts of the country that are doing something similar. Most recently, I heard that such a project was discussed at the New Orleans CFS workshop. So far, however, we've been unable to get past hearsay to actually contact other people who have done/are doing this. If you know of any similar projects and can share information, please let me know. If you know the name of the state or community involved, the funding entity, the organization operating the service, names of people to contact -- anything -- I'd really appreciate hearing from you. 2) We're searching now for the right individual to hire for this project. Here is the position announcement. If you know someone who may be interested, please pass this on to them. Thanks in advance for your help. Susan Smalley POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT The Michigan Integrated Farming Systems (MIFFS) is seeking a Project oordinator for Marketline, a pilot project providing technical assistance to expand market capabilities of entrepreneurial food-based ventures in Michigan. It will link small and medium size buyers of agricultural products with farmers; develop and encourage entrepreneurial food production, processing, and marketing opportunities. Marketline is being funded by a grant from USDA Rural Development and will target growers and food businesses in 10 rural Michigan counties (Berrien, Genessee, Gratiot, Lake, Lenawee, Montcalm, Muskegon, Newaygo, Tuscola, and Van Buren). MIFFS is a nonprofit organization working to improve the economic and social well-being of Michiganders who grow and eat food, and the ecological well being of Michigan's natural resources. The Marketline Project Coordinator will be responsible to: * Cordinate work of a seven member advisory committee to guide and direct the project; * Recruit and engage project participants and collaborators; * Create a database listing Michigan farms with agricultural products to sell and food businesses seeking specific Michigan grown agricultural items; * Develop a searchable Marketline web site for use by growers and buyers; * Assist buyers in locating Michigan grown agricultural items; * Assist growers in identifying, growing, and selling to waiting markets; * Promote and publicize the services and opportunities of the project; * Organize leadership development, knowledge, and information transfer for advisory committee, growers, and buyers; * Evaluate and document project work and impacts, preparing required reports; * Manage the project's $61,000 budget over one year; * Manage any contract work or staff; * Assist MIFFS Executive Director in securing additional project resources. Qualifications sought include: * Excellent organization building skills, i.e. the ability to organize, motivate and work with advisory committee members, project collaborators, farmers, food business people, media, Extension and other agency staff, as well as other interested groups and individuals. This includes being able to work effectively with people who have differing philosophies, educational backgrounds, and/or economic status; * Evidence of successful marketing experience; * Excellent oral and written, communication skills and interpersonal skills, i.e. the ability to make public presentations, conduct workshops, compose press releases, write promotional materials and reports and, interact in a positive and motivational manner with a variety of consumers, buyers, farmers, staff, etc.; * Evidence of experience in database and website design and management; * Appreciation and understanding of sustainable agriculture; * Bachelors degree or equivalent competence in marketing, agriculture communications or related fields. Application materials should include letter of interest, resume, and a description of how your knowledge, skills, and abilities address the responsibilities and qualifications sought by MIFFS for Marketline. Include the names of three references. Applications should be submitted to Tom Guthrie, Executive Director, MIFFS, P.O. Box 4903, East Lansing, MI 48826 and received no later than 5PM on August 20, 1999. The position is open immediately and will remain open until a qualified candidate is hired. Both full and part-time candidates are invited to apply. Job sharing is an option. The Marketline office will be in the Lansing, Michigan area but other in-state locations will be considered. The project has budgeted up to $30,000 in salary plus up to an additional 20 percent for fringe benefits. This is a one year position. Extensions are possible pending available funding. Further questions may be directed to Tom Guthrie (517-432-0712); Christine Lietzau (517-373-9800); or Susan Smalley (517-432-0049). MIFFS is an equal opportunity employer and maintains a drug free work place. Susan B. Smalley Extension Specialist Sustainable Food & Farming Systems smalley@msue.msu.edu Michigan State University 517-432-0049 Voice Department of Crop & Soil Sciences 517-353-3834 Fax 270 Plant & Soil Science Building East Lansing, MI 48824-1325 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 08:07:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA14528 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03321 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:21:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03301 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26339 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA29815 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:20:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-112.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.112) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma029805; Fri Aug 6 06:20:06 1999 Message-ID: <003b01bedf34$5ab41f80$70f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: PBS Newshour Aug. 5 Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:19:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2044 Did anyone see last nights PBS newshour? There was a blurb on loss of family farms. I did not hear much discussion similar to what is discussed on this list. The farmers mentioned it was too hard to stay in business with the low prices their crops bring. "Experts" mentioned the trend to large farms like it was just the way it is. Basically it's modern times that's they way farming will be. Money from government indicated as the only way to save the farms. That is a very short overview. But it did not seem to address any real issues. If you were just a city person watching. I think you would have gleaned "oh little guy wants a hand out 'cause he can't play with the big guys. Well big guys are feeding me just fine yawn yawn." Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 08:53:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA20347 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27199 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:07:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (gaes.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.200]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27195 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sareace4.griffin.peachnet.edu (sareace4.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.64]) by gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA29297; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908061207.IAA29297@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu> From: "John C. Mayne" To: Joel Brooks Gruver Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:08:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: stability in agroecosystems Reply-to: jmayne@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2045 Joel, David Tillman at, I believe, Minnesota has done some elegant work on plant competition, succession and diversity. His work has been mostly with grasses. If you haven't already come across his work, I strongly recommend it. John Date sent: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:51:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Brooks Gruver To: sanet Subject: stability in agroecosystems > Hello to all... > > I am wondering if anyone is familiar with studies that looked at the > population dynamics of non crop species in early succession > agroecosystems. Are there studies that showed that under extended > periods of uniform management/ecosystem disturbances (e.g. a long term > cropping experiment with annual crops), populations of some non-crop > species tended to stabilize while others did not ? > > Certainly there are studies of changes in weed and arthropod populations > over time in long term experiments. > > Can anyone refer me to an article in which non-crop species > population dynamics over time are discussed in terms of cropping system > sustainability/unsustainability ? > > Joel Gruver > Soil Quality Research > U of MD > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail John C. Mayne, Ph.D. Southern SARE Program 1109 Experiment Street Griffin, GA 30223 PH: (770) 229-3350 FX: (770) 412-4789 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 10:18:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA28636 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12876 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:29:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12785 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.187] (st-ppp13.hevanet.com [198.5.254.187]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA10283; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908061329.GAA10283@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 06:31:37 -0700 Subject: FW: Conference on Boar Semen From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2046 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Conference on Boar Semen Date: Fri, Aug 6, 1999, 4:33 AM STORY LEAD: ARS Hosts International Conference on Preserving Boar Semen ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov August 6, 1999 ----------- Scientists from around the world will meet next week to discuss critical research findings and technological innovations in boar (male swine) semen preservation at the Fourth International Conference on Boar Semen Preservation, Aug. 8-11, in Beltsville, Md. The Agricultural Research Service, the chief scientific agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is hosting the conference. ARS is also one of four major sponsors of the event. The conference was initiated in 1985 when Kjell Larsson of Sweden and animal physiologist Lawrence A. Johnson, head of ARS' Germplasm and Gamete Physiology Laboratory in Beltsville, organized the first meeting in Uppsala, Sweden. It is generally held every five years. The purpose is to stimulate thinking, research and applications of principles regarding semen preservation and swine artificial insemination worldwide. Scientists, practitioners, and technicians attend the conference to discuss topics concerning swine reproduction. The conference will include 25 oral presentations from leading scientists in the field of swine reproduction. Topics covered include gamete interaction, in vitro semen evaluation, freezing boar semen, and current status of artificial insemination usage worldwide. The meeting also will offer more than 50 poster presentations. A highlight of the evening program will be a presentation by Professor E.J.C. Polge, now retired from the University of Cambridge, United Kingdom. Polge has been in the forefront of livestock semen and embryo preservation research for the past 50 years and was the first to successfully freeze bovine semen in 1949. Johnson is chairman of the conference organizing committee. He and his colleague, animal physiologist John R. Dobrinsky, will present research developments in the "Emerging Technologies for the Next Millennium" session. Johnson will present new developments in sex preselection for swine, while Dobrinsky will present his recent work on a successful method to preserve swine embryos. ---------- Scientific contact: Lawrence A. Johnson, ARS Germplasm and Gamete Physiology Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-8545, fax (301) 504-5123, LAJOHNSN@lpsi.barc.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 11:10:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00277 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14125 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:19:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14024 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:23:15 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: ERS Report on Green Technologies in Agriculture Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:23:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2047 SANet: A USDA Economic Research Service report, 42 pages in Adobe (.pdf). http://www.econ.ag.gov/epubs/pdf/aib752/index.htm It includes some interesting data on adoption of conservation tillage and IPM, data on wetlands and water pollution, and a large bibliography, among other things. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Crosby Greg NRE [mailto:GCROSBY@intranet.reeusda.gov] Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 2:54 PM Subject: SDCOUNTIL> ERS Report on Green Tech in Agriculture Green Technologies for a More Sustainable Agriculture Green Technologies for a More Sustainable Agriculture. By James Hrubovcak, Utpal Vasavada, and Joseph Aldy. Resource Economics Division, Economic Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture. Agriculture Informaiton Bulletin No. 752. Abstract For U.S. agriculture to continue along a sustainable path of economic development, further production increases must be generated by technologies that are both profitable and more environmentally benign. In this context, we assess the role of these "green" or sustainable technologies in steering agriculture along a more sustainable path. However, the lack of markets for the environmental attributes associated with green technologies can limit their development. In addition, simply making a technology available does not mean it will be adopted. Experience with green technologies such as conservation tillage,integrated pest management, enhanced nutrient management, and precision agriculture demonstrates that even when technologies are profitable, barriers to adopting new practices can limit their effectiveness. Keywords: Sustainable agriculture, natural capital, nonrenewable resources, renewable resources, environmental services, green technology, integrated pest management, conservation tillage, enhanced nutrient management, precision agriculture Contents Summary Introduction I. The Sustainability Issue-Background II. The Case for a More Sustainable Agriculture Agricultural Productivity Soil Erosion Ground-Water Quantity Surface-Water Quality Ground-Water Quality Wetland Conversion Rates An Aggregate Assessment for U.S. Agriculture III. Steering Agriculture in a More Sustainable Direction-The Role of Green Technologies Integrated Pest Management Conservation Tillage Enhanced Nutrient Management Precision Agriculture IV. Can Green Technologies Meet Sustainability Goals? Impediments to Overcome Farm Structure Economic Risk Heterogeneity of the Resource Base Other Factors V. Conclusions References Appendix 1-Farm Level Case Studies on Profitability-Environment Tradeoffs Appendix 2-Workshop on the Economics of Sustainable Agriculture ii Green Technologies for a More Sustainable Agriculture/ AIB-752 Economic Research Service/USDA Updated: July 6, 1999 http://www.econ.ag.gov/epubs/pdf/aib752/index.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 11:10:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA00286 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:10:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06565 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:10:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.clarityconnect.com (smtp.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06545 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarityconnect.com (206.64.143.5) by smtp.clarityconnect.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:09:38 -0400 Received: from Craig (24.95.191.247) by clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d2); Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:13:36 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990806091449.00a3f900@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: cdcramer@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:18:44 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Craig Cramer Subject: re: pasture access, was .... Whole Foods buying local? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2048 My recollection of the NOFA-NY organic dairy standards call for providing stock with "access to managed pasture, weather permitting." My copy of the standards is packed up, so I can't give you the exact wording or what it says about other livestock classes. Craig Craig Cramer mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming http://1000ways.baka.com Sustainable Farming Connection http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 12:16:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02502 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28483 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:30:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28461 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.105] (ppp-206-170-1-105.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.105]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21699; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:14:27 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: New variant CJD update/ProMED Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2049 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you prion-watchers. peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CJD (NEW. VAR.) - UK: UPDATE AUGUST 1999 **************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:34:00 -0400 From: Dorothy Preslar Source: Financial Times, 3 Aug 1999 (edited) One person died last month from new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (nvCJD or v-CJD) - the degenerative brain disorder linked to BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy, mad cow disease) - the department of health said yesterday. The death brings the total [death] toll to 43 since nvCJD was first recorded in 1995. The number of nvCJD deaths so far this year is 4, compared with 16 last year, 10 in 1997 and 10 in 1996. But epidemiologists say it is still too soon to discount the possibility of a nvCJD epidemic, because the disease has a long and unknown incubation period. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 12:17:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02541 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28490 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:30:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28471 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.105] (ppp-206-170-1-105.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.105]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21709 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:19:46 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: E.coli infections--Ohio/ProMED Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2050 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you food safety watchers. Note the moderator's comments at the end about vector. Note that even though a food vector has not been proven, and the thing can live just about anywhere, it's considered a "food-borne" illness or bacterium. I haven't heard anyone point to the possibility of hospitals as a vector, have you? peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ E. COLI INFECTIONS, UNKNOWN SOURCE - USA (OHIO) (02) **************************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:48:40 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: The Cincinnati Enquirer, 5 Aug 1999 A cluster of 20 recent cases of _E. coli_ sickness in Hamilton, Butler and Clermont counties has triggered an investigation by state and federal health officials. All 20 victims were infected with _E. coli_ O157:H7, a powerful, sometimes deadly food-borne bacterium that strikes about 65,000 people a year nationwide. _E. coli_ from contaminated beef killed four people and sickened hundreds of others after they ate at Jack-in-the-Box restaurants in Washington state in 1993. TRISTATE CASES State and federal health officials are searching for what caused a "cluster" of 20 confirmed cases of _E. coli_ sickness in Greater Cincinnati in June and July. Key test results are expected by week's end. - - Hamilton County: 8 confirmed cases including 2 in Loveland, 2 in Indian Hill, 2 in Anderson township, one each in Blue Ash and Symmes Township. - - Butler county: 6 confirmed cases, 3 probable cases; includes 4 in Fairfield, 2 in Liberty Township, one each in Union and Madison townships. - - Clermont County: 6 confirmed cases, mostly in Union and Miami Townships near the Hamilton County line. The Ohio Department of Health and county departments of health [have indicated that]: no deaths have occurred in the local cluster, but several victims were sick enough to require hospital care. Although the investigation is in its early stages, officials do not think all 20 people got sick from a single source of contamination, such as a group picnic or restaurant. "It is really very unlikely that it's a single source," said Janet Rickabaugh, Clermont County health commissioner. "[The investigation] could take several weeks. And we may never find out much more information on the source." Tracking the source of a foodborne illness can be complicated, health officials say. People don't always accurately remember what they eat and finding samples of contaminated food can be elusive. The 20 cases include eight in Hamilton County, six in Clermont County and six in Butler County. All were diagnosed in June or July. That's an unusually high number, even though health officials say summer is the peak season for _E. coli_ infections. Those three counties reported a total of 11 cases in 1998, [according to] Ohio Department of Health spokeswoman Jane Beathard. Statewide, 87 cases of _E. coli_ illnesses were reported this year through July 28, compared with 54 cases in the same period a year ago. _E. coli_ O157:H7 is one of hundreds of strains of _E. coli_ bacteria, many of which pose no threat to human health. The dangerous strain is commonly passed by eating undercooked beef. However, _E. coli_ outbreaks also have been linked to unpasteurized milk and apple juice, and raw alfalfa sprouts. The [infection can be] spread by failing to wash hands after using the restroom or changing diapers, or by drinking or swimming in contaminated water. To find the source or sources of the local cluster, county health departments have been interviewing victims about what they ate and where. Bacterial samples collected from the victims have been sent to the state health department for closer analysis. Three experts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, brought in at the request of the state health department, arrived Wednesday. They will be working from the Clermont County Health Department. Based on interviews with the people who became sick, food samples have been collected from at least two restaurants, but no test results were available Wednesday. The state health department expects to have results by week's end from a type of bacteria DNA testing called pulsed field gel electrophoresis. Even _E. coli_ O157:H7 can vary in subtle ways. The DNA test can tell much like a fingerprint whether any of the 20 people caught the same variation of the strain. The lack of common circumstances among the cases makes it likely that more than one source of contamination was involved. In Clermont County, none of the six victims were from the same family. In Butler County, ages of victims ranged from 4 to 82. In Hamilton County, victims lived in five different cities or townships, with ages ranging from 4 to 63. "We've been trying to find a common food source, but so far we haven't found one," said Patricia Burg, director of the Butler County Health Department. No new cases have been reported for several days, but it is too soon to tell whether the cluster is likely to grow beyond the 20 cases, Ms. Beathard said. The potential risk to the public depends on the cause or causes of the illness. Franklin County has reported four recent _E. coli_ cases near Columbus but state officials do not believe those cases are linked to the Greater Cincinnati cases. Officials also are investigating three cases reported in Kentucky and one in Indiana to see if they might be linked to the local cluster. [Byline: Tim Bonfield] - -- ProMED-mail [This article suggests this outbreak may be bigger than just the southern portion of Ohio. There is a greater than 50% increase in reported cases as of 28 July this year from the same period in 1998 (87 vs 54 cases) of which only 61% are attributed to this cluster (20 of 33). In addition, there is mention that 3 cases in Kentucky and one in Indiana are under investigation as possibly related to this cluster. One obvious question is whether this is related to a commercial product distributed in the region vs. a common source event which this article seems to rule out. - MPP] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We're not against ideas. We're against people spreading them. --Augusto Pinochet To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 12:41:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03142 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11935 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:54:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11928 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02325 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-35.csj.net [12.29.22.35]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA24960 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:55:54 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "'Sustainable AG list'" Subject: ATP: Finding the flow of work in the machine we call the body Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:59:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000201bee023$f5d97920$2577fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2051 As I investigated and discarded the germ theory and the immunosuppression theory in the rhea/ostrich chicks deaths (how can any animal successful for 40 million years be immunosuppressed?), I had developed many flow charts to help me understand the biochemistry of certain processes. One of the biochemicals that seemed incohesive and ubiquitous was ATP. It appeared everywhere, or at least it seemed to. In 1995, to get a handle on ATP I used a large piece of paper which evolved into the a flowchart of the creation, recycling, use, and degradation of ATP. It also included fatty acid or hormonal influences as I came across them. PAPS was on this chart, in its own little box, with the products that are derived from the donated sulfur: chondroitin sulfate, heparin, hyaluronic acid in connective tissue, synovial tissue, and vitreous fluid, keratan sulfate from the cornea and loose connective tissue, dermatan sulfate from the skin, and heperan sulfate form basement membranes i.e.. line the GI tract. Fast forward 18 months. In 1996 I was pressed to explain why people with Crohn's, fibromyalgia, and chronic fatigue syndrome were telling me the samples of the original rhea extract were significantly impacting their lives. I could not explain it. How could a dried meat product provide pain relief in such varied conditions? It defied logic. I had a dream which pointed to the direction. Regressing for a moment to my college days, totally uninspired by the classroom, I spent countless hours learning the intricacies of high performance cars. Racing is a euphemism for "blowing up things" supplying ample opportunity to diagnose, repair, and gain an intimate understanding of the laws of physics and applied engineering. The dream was of an IV bag of glucose going into a carburetor. I woke up and realized that I was looking at the flow of fuel in the body, the glycolytic pathway that makes ATP, rather than the flow of work, wherever that was. Even though 20+ years have passed since I torqued anything, I remembered it was the flow of work that was the significant pathway determining mechanical efficiency. So, at 2AM I awakened my engineer husband to verify what I already knew. He was not too impressed I woke him up to answer such an obvious question. I made the bold assumption that the glycolytic pathway is just the flow of fuel to the spark plug we call ATP. It is ATP that actually moves things, so the flow of work has to derive from ATP. Hence, seemed like the logical flow of work in the body. Therefore, anything that impacts ATP should impact body efficiency unless the supporting factors are increased to mitigate the energy drain. A few other people are addressing the issue. The military, sports medicine, cardiology (ATP depletion in the heart) recognize the importance. There are a few references on supplementing with nucleotides and journal letters calling for the development of laboratory test to quantify ATP status in patients, but it is only a few voices. One has to understand the importance of properly identifying the flow of work in the body to understand the impact decreased ATP can have on body processes. If we don't have the capacity to measure ATP easily in the body, how can we have the capacity to determine deleterious effects caused by its decline? The charts are on my website http:www.rhealiving.com I have to get ready for a talk on fibromyalgia tomorrow, so part three may not happen until next week. Donna Fezler To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 12:41:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA03161 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11932 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:54:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11919 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02322 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-35.csj.net [12.29.22.35]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA24952 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:55:50 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "'Sustainable AG list'" Subject: ATP part 1: fibromyalgia Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:51:32 -0500 Message-ID: <000101bee023$f2cf4660$2577fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE70@vela.phibred.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2052 Dale and Dennis, Thank you for clarifying that 2,4 D is not 2,4 Dinitrophenol. I learned this from a medical forum from people that should have known better. Now, why should we be concerned with any product that compromises ATP? Granted the scientific studies, as designed and executed, do not point to a problem. This may be due to several of the reasons we have stated on the list already: a singe toxin being tested, the superiority of lab animal diets, and tests of short duration. The web article below, identifying an ATP depletion and recommending supplements to boost ATP production, is from someone else's site. I had not even heard of fibromyalgia when I filed the patent. Based on this, we can argue any product that further compromises ATP in the estimated 12,000,000 fibromyalgia sufferers should be further compelled to prove its safety, not the other way around. ATP production is a demonstrated problem in chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia and these individuals are not aware of substances that can aggravate the condition. Medicine is adhering to the theory that the body is attacking itself. It is really rather a ridiculous theory and defies evolutionary theory as well as the innate survival mechanism. Once one questions the validity of that theory, one can explore other options freely, such as a search for an external influence. The anti-phospholipid antibodies being produced then become a survival mechanism to prevent certain factors from being tied up or stored in cell membranes. It is a cellular choice--run at a suboptimal level or die from the poison. Can you identify this autoimmune disorder? capillary rupture bleeding gums multiple spontaneous bruises weakness sore muscles in appendages anemia irregular heartbeat difficult breathing in children there may be bone abnormalities, failure to thrive I can only imagine the attempts at finding the "problem" gene, the regimens of steroids or chemotherapy, the support groups for sufferers that would emerge as millions of dollars are poured into research to solve this insidious disease where the body is obviously attacking itself. Thank goodness the problem was solved before modern medicine got a hold of it: scurvy Detoxification The substance that defines the priority of detoxification over rebuilding is the high affinity, low capacity metabolic detoxifier phosphoadenosine phosphosulfate (PAPS). Sulfate joins with ATP (and is probably the point where the MSM contributes to pain relief) in two steps to form PAPS. At this point PAPS can donate sulfur to proteoglycans and glycoaminoglycans (rescued from obscurity and made famous by the book The Arthritis Cure). These are components of cartilage, bone, skin, cornea, arteries, loose connective tissue, joints, heart, and lungs to name of few. Basically, they are ubiquitous in the body. PAPS, as tested in lab animals, has different capacities just between the mouse and the rat. So, is it really accurate to make human determinations from lab animals? The sulfation process rids the body of toxins. However, it has a limited capacity and competes for ATP and PAPS with other body processes. It is here that we think that autoimmune disorders can have their origin as a nutritional deficiency, as reversible as scurvy as long as there is no permanent damage, and we can reduce the toxin and stress load (stress depletes ATP) on the body. Next Part 2- Finding the flow of work in the machine we call the body Part 3- Nutritionally reversing the fatal accelerated autoimmune disorders in rhea (and ostrich and turkey): the data >From an article on the net: http://www.hsv.tis.net/dymedias/a/accm/FIBRO.HTM snip WHAT CAUSES FMS? Research has not identified an exact cause for FMS. However, certain events (such as a viral or bacterial infection, an automobile accident, or the development of another disorder such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, or hypothyroidism) may precipitate its onset by awakening an underlying physiological abnormality already present.(3) METABOLIC ORIGIN FMS exhibits many of the same symptoms as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). Both conditions reveal reduced diurnal glucocorticoid levels, impaired reactivity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, and reduced ATP production.(l,5) Biopsies conducted on FMS patients indicate mitochondrial damage in the muscle, a metabolic abnormality. An impairment in glycolysis leads to an "energy crisis" with abnormal carbohydrate metabolism and phosphorylation, causing failure of thiamin activation and serotonin depletion.(l ) Blood chemistry findings of FMS patients typically show: (l,5,6,7,8) snip 1. Bland, Jeffrey S.,Ph.D. "Fibromyalgia & Myofascial Pain Syndromes." Applying New Essentials in Nutritional Medicine. Gig Harbor, WA: HealthComm International, Inc., 1995. 2. "What is Fibromyalgia Syndrome?" San Diego: National Foundation for Fibromyalgia. 3. Wilson, Janet. "Her pain now has a name: Fibromyalgia." Austin, TX: Austin American-Statesman, April 10, 1995. 4. "Understanding the invisible disability." San Diego: The National Foundation for Fibromyalgia. 5. Demitrack, Mark A., M.D. Chronic fatigue syndrome: A disease of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis? Annals of Medicine 26: 1 -3, 1994. 6. Eisinger, J., M. D., et. al. Glycolysis abnormalities in fibromyalgia. Jour. of the Amer. Cola. of Nutr. 13(2):144-148, 1994. 7. Romano, Thomas, M.D., Ph.D. and Stiller, John W., M.D. Magnesium deficiency and fibromyalgiasyndrome. Jour. of Nutr. Med. 4:165-167, 1994. 8. Yunus, Muhammad B., et. al. Plasma tryptophan and other amino acids in primary fibromyalgia. Jour. of Rheum. 19(1):90-94, 1992. And the product they sell: NUTRITIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS: ATP-PLUS #495 ATP-PLUS is a hypoallergenic vegetarian formula designed to enhance the production of ATP. ATP stores energy that is created when the body burns carbohydrates and fats in the citric acid (Kreb's) cycle. When energy is needed by the body, ATP is broken down to release the stored energy. ATP is the universal energy molecule for the body in the same way that electricity is the universal energy source for a computer. Magnesium and malic acid, both of which play a role in the citric acid cycle, are essential in both aerobic and anaerobic reactions necessary for the production of energy for all bodily functions. Both substances also have an oxygen-sparing effect. Magnesium deficiencies disrupt ATP synthesis in both the glycolytic and mitochondrial pathways. Since ATP drives the membrane pumps which transport magnesium into the cell, a vicious cycle could arise in which low ATP levels give rise to even lower intracellular magnesium, causing still further ATP reduction. Malate deficiency may be the cause of physical exhaustion. SIX TABLETS CONTAIN: Magnesium (Hydroxide)....300 mg. Malic Acid...............1200 mg. Donna Fezler http:www/rhealiving.com > If this is an attempt to argue in favour of the 'much less > toxic' 2,4-D, I think it is unfortunate. I was attempting to clarify the chemical and toxicological difference between the two chemicals, not support the use of 2,4-D. But as long as you bring it up... > interfering with mitochondrial respiration [uncoupling ATP > production] in even a minor way, has wide repercussions. Most phenolic poisons can uncouple phosphorylation, but it is all a matter of dose. If you OD on 2,4-dinitrophenol (LD50=30mg/kg), the uncoupling will kill you, no doubt about it. If you OD on aspirin (LD50=200mg/kg), the uncoupling will probably kill you, but other effects might get you first. If you OD on 2,4-D herbicide (LD50>1000mg/kg), CNS depression, not uncoupling, will probably kill you, but the petroleum distillate in the formulation might get you first. Uncoupling phosphorylation is an acute, high-dose hazard caused by gross disturbance of the mitochondrial inner membrane. There is not much reason to think, nor any evidence as far as I know, that this is an insidious environmental threat. > My own research arising from need to deal with my own chronic > fatigue makes clear to me the intimate linkage between the > respiratory pathway and the steroidogenic pathways,... Theory will only get you so far. When they actually feed high doses of 2,4-D esters or amines to mammals, the chemical doesn't seem very dangerous, not from an acute, nor from a carcinogenic perspective. The biggest danger is splashing the concentrated formulation in your eyes, which can cause real injury. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 13:58:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05261 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02923 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:15:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (gaes.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.200]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02848 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:15:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sareace2.griffin.peachnet.edu (sareace2.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.65]) by gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07139 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908061714.NAA07139@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Gwen Roland" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:10:07 +0500 Subject: Southern Region SARE project summaries X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2053 Southern Region SARE Project Summaries Online All the project summaries from the most recent edition of the Southern Region SARE Annual Report on now available on our SSARE web site. Access them by clicking on the web address in my signature. When the SSARE page opens, click on PROJECTS or LATEST NEWS to get to the annual report. Gwen Roland Southern Region SARE 1109 Experiment Street Griffin, GA 30223 Ph: (770) 412-4786 Fax: (770) 412-4789 http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 13:59:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA05275 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00284 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:13:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00120 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0275.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.20]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09591; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A9FA02.FA55B1C8@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 13:54:26 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patricia Foreman CC: sanet Subject: Re: Whole Foods buying local? References: <19990804224340852.AAA329@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.37]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2054 yes, I notice that free range chickens may be allowed out the door, but not to greenery. That kind of limited freedom does no good. I was shocked, after tryng some free range chicken eggs there, that the yolks were pale yellow-certainly those chickens never ate a green leaf. Patricia Foreman wrote: > The point I want to make in this discussion is not whether or not Whole > Foods can or will buy from local growers, but that they should not be using > our image of wholesomeness and goodness to sell their mostly conventional > products. We small farmers are pawns in the Whole Foods advertising and > marketing ploys. They are very good at using phrases such as FREE ROAMING to > dupe their customers into believing that ALL their products are organic, > when this isn't even close to being reality. I agree with all of you who say > that a chain store has buying challenges that small farmers often can't > meet. For that matter, most small farmers can make more money, easier, by > selling to local consumers. But, when a farmer represents a group able to > produce 50,000 pasture-raised broilers annually, with a consistently > excellent, USDA packaged product, available every month of the year, then we > should at least have an opportunity to talk to a chain store buyer. Instead, > Whole Foods continues to buy their chickens from the broiler barns, then > resorts to phony advertising such as FREE ROAMING to sell product. > Incidentally, the US Department of Agriculture encourages this duplicity by > allowing labeling of organic chickens and eggs that are grown in barns > without access to any pasture. They also allow labeling of FREE RANGE any > time chickens have access to an open door that leads to the barn yard. We > should ask USDA to tighten up the labeling requirements. > > Andy Lee > Good Earth Farm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 14:01:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05350 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00017 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:13:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29895 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0275.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.20]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09443; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A9F2C9.BF6E93C4@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 13:23:37 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erorganic@aol.com CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: support of sm farmers by large chain stores References: <80ad6499.24d9bbcd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2055 In all the talk here about marketing, I have been wanting to suggest to some of the posters that they read the book by Eric Gibson--Sell what you Sow. I have heard many of his lectures, all very good and crammed with excellent ideas, just like the book. Erorganic@aol.com wrote: > Hello Anita, Mark and Emily, > > Experience indicates, quality of product, consistency of grade and pack, > continuity of supply, diversity of supply, on time delivery and competitive > price are the bases of successful produce marketing. Small farmers marketing > individually or in coops must in the long haul meet these marketing standards > to sell to wholesalers or stores. With the exception of specific "smaller" > organic farmers, who really are not "small," few small organic farmers have > chosen to meet all these conditions. A lot of the willingness to buy from > smaller farmers is based completely on the individual buyer's decision > making. Most chain organic produce buyers have a dedication to the freshest > product and a few to buying locally offering an advantage to local/regional > produce farmers. > > So, the question must be always asked: can local/regional farmers meet the > retail marketers required conditions to provide quality product and maintain > shelf life until sold to the customer. On the other hand, many produce > buyers are only interested in the simplest way to buy produce--beyond a doubt > that is through established distribution firms. Overall the US, Whole Foods > and Wild Oats do not appear to have a consistent chain produce buying policy. > > Over the years, what I found worse about chain store produce buyers was their > willingness to buy high quality non-organic product rather than quality local > certified organic product. The stores market the high quality non-organic > product at the same price as "organically produced" product. The profits are > larger selling the non-organic product. Organic is the lead, but the bulk at > various times of the year has been non-organically produced. > > Chains continue to pit organic farmers price structure against conventional > high quality product (as well as small organic growers pricing against larger > organic growers). A single organic farming consortium produces about 30% of > all US organic produce and of the other 70%, 4 other growers supply 40%; in > my estimation, what are called small growers provide about 5% of the total > produce sold in chains. > > What has been of more concern to me over the years is that the consumer > marketing coops of the US do not: > 1. carry very much or the diversity of organic produce, except for Northeast > Coop, > 2. do not have a policy to buy from local produce farmers, except perhaps for > Northeast Coop > > Consumer coops' memberships, and ownership, for years has placed as their > number one request fresh organic produce covering the whole spectrum of > crops. The coop management continues to not fulfil their wishes simply > because they do not train their employees and establish the refrigeration and > truck delivery infrastructure to handle perishable produce. Along with > infrastructure and training, a business must make a commitment to build the > market among coop clientele. But that would not be very difficult since that > is what the membership wants. > > My experience over many years, as well as others, is that organic produce > farmers can more easily break into local/regional store marketing if they > lead with high quality, graded and packed highly perishables (sweet corn, > spinach, lettuce, herbs, etc.) and/or fruit products. With these products, > the shipped in products cannot really compete. > > On the other hand, the produce farm that is not efficient in biological, > mechanical, labor and marketing management just cannot compete with the large > producers regarding cost of production and quality of the product. Because > of the high capitalization, the many skills one must acquire, the long work > hours and the reality of marketing, we have seen very few people go into > organic produce farming and I predict will even see less. In the business > world, we call it consolidation of business into smaller numbers of producers > who grow larger yearly--such is happening in organic produce. To reverse the > trend there must be effective, efficient cooperative marketing, which I > discuss further on. > > So, major chains, nationwide, generally do not buy from small organic > farmers. But the reasons vary; some are related to the farmer production and > post harvest handling systems, some are related to the produce buyers > strategy and decision making. > > One more point: organic farmers marketing coops have experimented with > solving diversity, quality, continuity of supply. There are a couple of > organic produce farmer coops in the multimillion-dollar sales range and and a > few more selling less than a million. However, in the context of organic > produce marketing there are a number of shortcomings making most of them > "spot" marketers, i.e. marketers for specific products at certain times of > the year. > > Most coops are in climatic regions lacking year round farm production which > makes them "spot" marketers, not full line, year round suppliers. These > problems could be solved by cooperation between certified farmers across > North America. Although, the Organic Farmers Marketing Association has > extended this idea for a number of years, no action has been taken. It is my > conclusion that for certified organic farmers to successfully market produce > in the chain store system; an organic produce marketing agency in common must > come into existence. With high-speed telecommunications, cooperative > marketing of organic produce from growers to buyers across the US is now > possible. > > Any takers? > > Best regards, > > Eric Kindberg > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 14:10:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA05904 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05585 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:22:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05562 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:26:25 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Gail Feenstra '" Subject: food systems research Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:26:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2056 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 16:08:46 -0700 From: Gail Feenstra Subject: food systems research Dear all- The June 1999 issue of the Journal of the Agriculture, Food and Human Values Society (volume 16, No. 2) is a special issue on "The restructuring of food systems: trends, research and policy issues" Guest editors are Mustafa Koc and Kenneth Dahlberg. It is a GREAT issue with a number of good articles on community food security, globalization in the food system, urban agriculture, food policy councils and food policy planning. I recommend that you go straight to the library and check it out. For those of you interested in exploring these issues further, you should consider joining the Agriculture, Food and Human Values Society. For further info about them, the website is: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/rhaynes/afhvs/ gail Gail Feenstra Food Systems Coordinator UC Sustainable Agriculture Research & Ed. Program One Shields Ave. University of California Davis, CA 95616 (530) 752-8408 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 16:32:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02434 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22095 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:32:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22078 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp16.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.116]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA07430 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:27:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002601bee041$e040ed00$744b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "sanet-mg" References: <19990804224340852.AAA329@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.37]> <37A9FA02.FA55B1C8@earthlink.net> Subject: Free roaming layers Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:28:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2057 Hi Bargyla, you wrote: (snip) I was shocked, after trying > some free range chicken eggs there, that the yolks were pale yellow-certainly > those chickens never ate a green leaf. This is even better...some city folks we heard about threw out some eggs with vivid orange yolks, thinking there was something WRONG with them. They were so used to that pathetic tell-tale pale yellow, and didn't know any better! Guess they'd flip over the pretty blue-green shells of Araucana eggs! LOL! Actually a sad state of affairs that a mere generation or two has placed us so far from our food supply...we don't even know what a darn egg yolk should look like!! Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 17:33:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03943 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26206 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:29:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26110 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:33:07 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Debbie Collison'" Subject: Field day in MD 9/9/99 Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:33:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2058 Farmer Field Day Eastern Neck National Wildlife Refuge, Rock Hall MD "Banding with Cultivation in Field Crops" September 9, 1999 9:00 am Sponsored by: Future Harvest - Chesapeake Alliance for Sustainable Agriculture U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service National Fish & Wildlife Service University of Maryland Cooperative Extension Service Eastern Neck National Wildlife Refuge Chesapeake Wildlife Heritage Featuring: Pre-emergence band-spraying in row crops Use of Raven control sprayer unit with SUKUP heavy residue cultivator Post-emergence band-spraying/side-dressing & cultivation in corn DeKalb seed corn test plots, including RUR corn Crop rotations and cover crops Organic row corn & soybeans into Rye/vetch cover, Schmidt Farm (Sudlersville) Organic corn, Plain View Farm (Chestertown) Lunch at Waterman's Crab House in Rock Hall For information and LUNCH RESERVATIONS, call Chesapeake Wildlife Heritage (410/822-5100) Directions: Route 20 south from Chestertown; Route 445 South from Rock Hall to ENNWR maintenance shop. Follow signs. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 17:33:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03947 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03785 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:41:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03700 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:45:08 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Calendar of Events Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:45:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2059 Colleagues, We (mostly Abiola Adeyemi and Kirsten Sayor in my office) have recently added a number of events to the SAN calendar. Take a peek so you don't miss anything important! Either go directly to http://www.sare.org/wreg/view_notice_adm.pl Or shortcut from the home page http://www.sare.org/ If you have events to add to the calendar, you can do that yourself (with our *approval* process) at http://www.sare.org/wreg/notices_main_adm.pl or click on News and Events from the home page. I AM PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN EVENTS FOR THE YEAR 2000, SO IF YOU KNOW OF CONFERENCES AND MEETINGS THAT FAR AHEAD, LET US KNOW OR ADD THE EVENTS TO THE CALENDAR. Thanks, Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 20:57:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA02588 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14737 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:07:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14623 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool670-cvx.ds59-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.172.160]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id QM0HFQB5; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:04:59 -0400 Message-ID: <37AB7C4E.A8E88DE6@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 17:22:38 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: farmersmarkets References: <199908052210.SAA01789@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2060 Check out www.cafarmersmarkets.org for info on California farmers markets phil gillman pgillman@cafarmersmarkets.org Southland Farmers Markets Association To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 6 23:16:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA04082 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18478 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:35:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18419 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.214.220.70] (ppp-207-214-220-70.snfc21.pacbell.net [207.214.220.70]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00094; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:25:32 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Free roaming lawyers and other amazements Cc: mister3d@third-dimension.com, pjdietma@facstaff.wisc.edu, mimimillen@juno.com, fgoodman@mwt.net, rons@dnai.com, rjcooney@facstaff.wisc.edu, dkaufman@discover-net.net, pburst@aol.com, stauber@compuserve.com, rigale@mailbag.com, wmstouch@midplains.net, fjeoc@win.bright.net, cclp@mhtc.net, lvpage@execpc.com, ramcnair@facstaff.wisc.edu, greenman@econet.org, dlottjw@aol.com, lindah@erinet.com, hahn@persoft.com, ladysusanna@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2061 Howdy, all-- In celebration of the fact that I just failed the California car driver's written test (though passed the motorcycle one), I am suspending this week's Friday afternoon SANET sustag URL hunt and offering, instead, some of the things that are making me laugh and weep. I don't suppose all SANETters will agree it has to do with sustainable agriculture, but I think it does. Everything does. 1. Julie Marquardt's latest e-mail Subject: Free roaming layers I read that as "lawyers." Thanks, Julie, for inadvertently making me laugh as hard as I made you laugh when I inadvertently vandalized the fire exit sign at Sinsinawa last March and stood there, all thumbs, trying to fix the thing. :^) 2. There's a reason for this misread. While standing in line for an hour, in downtown San Francisco's DMV office, going over the state of Calif. motorcycle manual, which has more goofy stuff in it than Dan Quayle's head, I read this line: "A farm tractor is not a motorcycle." --page 5, State of Calif. Department of Motor Vehicles 1998 Motorcycle Driver Supplement I was standing there in line leafing thru the manual, figuring I'd rely on my Wisconsin 'cycle school training instead of the bone-headed prose in this ink-leaking tome, when I saw this, burst out laughing, and couldn't stop. I seriously lost it. Short breath, tears, red face, etc. That scared people around me--imagine cattle in a chute with switchbacks, moving forward to some unknown but vaguely threatening destination at a glacial pace in a relentlessly ugly building with little or no oxygen and more than a few bad smells; I wish somebody'd hire Temple Grandin to design state office buildings, but I digress. So I felt compelled to explain why I was laughing, which was good because then folks laughed and had a little fun. Someone opined that that line had to be in there because, at some point, some lawyer tried to argue in litigation that a farm tractor indeed is a motorcycle. I said that I'd never actually done any contour strip-cropping (nooooooo thank you; I may ride a motorcycle, but I'm no daredevil), but I've heard tell it's sometimes done on two wheels. That needed an explanation for several folks. That led to lawyer jokes and a nice discussion of what model tractor Robbie Kneivel would have used for his building-to-building rooftop death jump in Las Vegas. I opined an Allis D7, retrofitted with a front-end bale fork. I've been on one of those when the nose pops up--easier than any motorcycle I've ever been on, might I add. With the possible exception of the Yamaha R1, which in sixth gear is basically a high-speed motorized unicycle. John Lozier, thru the sealed windows I could see the big statue at the edge of the Panhandle where you played the Celtic harp for the city trees a month ago. They are still dancing. 3. After my Kafka-esque time at the DMV, I treated myself to shwarma and kufta (or kofte, if you wish) at an Egyptian restaurant in my neighborhood, and read the first section of yesterday's /SF Chronicle/. Quotable Quotes: In a story on the origins of life on earth, this example of a Ph.D. allowing someone to transform Belaboring the Obvious into Intoning an Important Fact with Scientific Certitude: "Life wouldn't be what it is today if we didn't have oxygen in the atmosphere and ocean." --Roger Summons, chief research scientist, Australian Geological Survey Organization. And in the same story, NASA researcher David McKay: "This is really potentially useful." Finally, an AP story about First Lt. Ryan Berry, who is claiming the Air Force is discriminating against him for being Roman Catholic, because he refuses to work with women in his place of employment: underground nuclear missile silos. He says that his faith prevents him from working in close quarters with any woman not his wife (I guess he sees women as sex objects, and has a terrible sense of self control or can't take "no" for an answer--though I don't see how he can blame the Church for that). He was quoted: "I love my church. I love being in the military. I love my wife. I love my child. I'm not being allowed to combine those loves." The intersection of love, parenthood, refusal to work with women, and working for Armageddon is a very difficult one for me to wrap my brain around. But then I never understood a lot of things I was supposed to. Like why the Pentagon located nuclear missiles and launch control centers under farmland. Except it goes to show you how people value farmland. Paint big ol bulls-eyes all over it to attract those incoming ICBMs. Here! Blow up and irradiate our farmland! We won't need it to rebuild after World War III! We've got all the canned peas and spinach we'll need for a century!!! Ha!!! Now, uh, who has the Swiss Army knife? Not that it matters, ultimately, where you drop a weapon that has two or three warheads, each with a destructive power 15 to 25 times that of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. But the notion of the heartland being the national sacrifice area, and its trusting, hard-working people being the hostages to genocide--you don't have to be a knee-jerk tree-hugging Wisconsin/Bay Area Progressive radical (; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17895 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17873 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0059.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.59]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23925; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AB1A40.3955F255@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:24:16 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Ishee CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery/Salatin Debate Transcripts References: <37AA3E80.472E88A0@cfw.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2062 Isn't that website Lawrence London's website? I bet he donated that cash. Jeff Ishee wrote: > I would like to announce to the list that an anonymous donor has > covered the cost of transcribing a recent two-hour debate between Dennis > Avery and Joel Salatin. Thanks to the donor and also to Craig Cramer who > is working on posting the complete debate, word-for-word, at the > Sustainable Farming Connection website. Give him a little time to code > it for HTML, and it should be up as soon as possible. > > http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection > > If you are looking for a no-holds barred, thought-provoking, > sparks-a-flying debate about modern agricultural policies and practices, > you'll want to make this a priority on your reading list. > Thanks again to the anonymous donor and to Craig Cramer, and to all of > you for your interest in this debate. > A one-page sample follows below. The complete debate is 24 typewritten > pages. > > Sincerely, > > Jeff Ishee > Farm Director, WSVA Radio > P.O. Box 752 > Harrisonburg, VA 22801 > www.valleyradio.com/agri > > ************************ > portion of debate (all transcribed word-for-word) > > (on the topic of organic vs. conventional foods relating to cancer > risks) > > Avery: There are varying shades of gray, black, and white, but really, I > mean that . . . for example your cancer scare. It's out the window, and > yet you guys are sticking with it. > > Salatin: You're trying to suggest . . . > > Avery: Where is the cancer threat? > > Salatin: I can show you report after report after report, and I know > people who have died from pesticide exposure and from herbicide > exposure. We have a lot of customers . . . > > Avery: Joel, you don't know of any such thing. > > Salatin: Of course I do. I talk with these people. > > Avery: You believe it, but . . . > > Salatin: Look, you can sit there in front of a computer all day, and you > can look at your statisticians and you databases, but I know people. If > you don't live in that world, that's not the real world. That's a > fantasy world of government flying around, jetting around the country > telling people what's going to happen in fifty years by looking at > databases and reading scientific journals. We have customers that come > to us from medical doctors with environmental sensitivities caused by > residues, hormones, call it what you will, pesticides, herbicides . . . > > Avery: Or allergies. > > Salatin: Or allergies, but most of them are not. They are sensitivities > to the problems, and whether it's food dye number 29 or whatever, that's > in food. These are our friends. There are not part of any computer > database. > > Avery: I had a letter from a lady in Indianapolis who said that organic > food had saved her life twice, because she'd had cancer twice. (laughs) > I thought the organic food was supposed to prevent her from getting > cancer, and that recovering from cancer should reflect some credit on > her doctors. She really believed that eating organic food had cured her > from cancer twice, having gotten cancer twice. I mean, this is not a > rational reality. > > Salatin: It is irrational, it is absolutely irrational, to think that > there is nothing about a chicken or a pig or a cow that is unique, and > that is any different than a computer or a robotic machine. That is not > real. > > Avery: Who is saying that? > > Salatin: Well, you are. > > Avery: Oh, heavens no. Biology is . . . > > Salatin: You don't care about humane . . . > > Avery: Biology is infinitely more complex than a robot or a computer. > > Salatin: Ahhh. Yes. So biology and industry are different. And yet the > whole predication of genetically modified organisms, irradiation, and > everything else you are espousing, it's all predicated on a philosophy > that animals and plants are simply machines. > > Avery: No. No. No. No. No. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 7 19:33:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15101 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17984 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17961 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0059.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.59]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24038; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AB1DA3.C4F49BCC@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:38:43 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: "Wilson, Dale" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: 2,4-D,different from 2,4- Dinitrophenol References: <000001bedf9f$5ded9d00$0f3325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2063 I remember once, a temporary, short time job I got, teaching people who were out of a job and on welfare. Everybody new by that time, from all the media, that I teach only organic method, so I was confused when a man showed up at my classes, ostensibly to be teaching the same group at the same time--something strange. Then when he tried to squeeze in something about 2-4 D--I erupted. Somehow he vanished from speaking to my class. Funny how those farm advisor outfits just had to cling to 2 4 D. Argall Family wrote: > Dale wrote: > "Theory will only get you so far. When they actually feed high doses of > 2,4-D esters or amines to mammals, the chemical doesn't seem very dangerous, > not from an acute, nor from a carcinogenic perspective. The biggest danger > is splashing the concentrated formulation in your eyes, which can cause real > injury. > > I suggest that there is something less than theory in that statement, Dale. > I think it is more sensible to adopt the cautionary approach from product > information, as below. Note that the list is of symptom outcomes, without > discussion of the systemic derangement causing symptoms. The symptoms do not > arise out of the air and some theoretical discussion of systemic causes is > important. > > Or you can discuss with the Agent Orange crowd, for a blizzard of contrary > argument. > > I really don't understand an agenda of dismissing what are sensible > community concerns about a deteriorating chemical environment as a result of > chemical treatments for narrow purposes, lacking regard for holistic > scientific perspectives. Or do you question the foundation of that - that we > are confronted with a massive increase in industrially produced chemicals in > the environment? > > All science is theory; the great errors arise when theory is taught as fact, > when fact is treated as dogma and becomes the basic assumptions of new > research and hypothesis. It is not extremist, but sensibly scientific to > question the broader ecological impact of products produced and marketed > with very narrow 'scientific' claims as to their benefits. We stopped > x-raying children's feet and tonsils way back, as we stopped bathing people > in DDT; we've stopped dumping chemicals under houses. I don't think the room > for hindsight has vanished. I don't think it helps when a case is made for > the 'safety' of products which does not EVEN match the official product > warnings. That can only make people doubt more. > > Dennis > ====== > > The Hazard Summary http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/cancer/24d.txt reads: > > HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION > > Acute Health Effects > The following acute (short term) health effects may occur > immediately or shortly after exposure to 2,4-D: > > * Skin or eye contact can cause irritation. > * Overexposure can irritate the throat and lower airways. > Symptoms include headache, nausea, vomiting, poor appetite, > sweating, fever and diarrhea. Muscle damage with tenderness, > weakness and twitching can occur. Other effects include damage > to the kidneys and liver and effects on the nerves to the arms > and legs, with weakness and poor coordination. > > Chronic Health Effects > The following chronic (long term) health effects can occur at some > time after exposure to 2,4-D and can last for months or years: > > Cancer Hazard > * 2,4-D causes MUTATIONS (genetic changes). Such chemicals may > have a cancer or reproductive risk. In fact there is limited > evidence that 2,4-D causes cancer of the breast and other > sites in animals. Non Hodgkin's lymphoma have been observed in > farmers occupationally exposed to 2,4, D. > * Many scientists believe there is no safe level of exposure to > a carcinogen. Such substances may also have the potential for > causing reproductive damage in humans. > > Reproductive Hazard > * 2,4-D may damage the developing fetus. > * There is limited evidence that 2,4-D is a teratogen in humans > and animals. Until further testing has been done, it should be > treated as a possible teratogen in humans. > * 2,4-D may decrease fertility in males. > > Other Long Term Effects > * Skin allergy to 2,4-D may develop. If this happens, even low > future exposure can lead to rash and itching. > * Repeated exposure can lead to patchy areas of loss of skin > pigment, and to kidney and liver damage. Lung effects (airway > narrowing, emphysema) have also been reported. Thinning of the > lining of the throat (atrophy) can also occur from the > repeated irritation. > > [and from the end of the document] > > DISTRIBUTION AND PERSISTENCE IN THE ENVIRONMENT > > 2,4-D is moderately persistent in water, with a half-life of > between 20 to 200 days. The half-life of a pollutant is the amount > of time it takes for one-half of the chemical to be degraded. > About 91.7% of 2,4-D will eventually end up in water; about 3.3% > will end up in aquatic sediments; about 3.5% will end up in > terrestrial soil; and the rest will end up in the air. > > BIOACCUMULATION IN AQUATIC ORGANISMS > > Some substances increase in concentration, or bioaccumulate, in > living organisms as they breathe contaminated air, drink > contaminated water, or eat contaminated food. These > chemicals can become concentrated in the tissues and internal > organs of animals and humans. > > The concentration of 2,4-D found in fish tissues is expected to be > much higher than the average concentration of 2,4-D in the water > from which the fish was taken. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 7 19:34:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15107 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17900 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17878 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0059.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.59]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23769; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AB1936.6660ACCD@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:19:50 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: Julie , sanet Subject: Re: pasture access, was .... Whole Foods buying local? References: <000701bedf8a$282448a0$243325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2064 this is maybe why there has been such great instant success with Salatin's idea of a chicken tractor--I think that is what it is called. In my childhood, in a very primitive country, all chickens ran around all over, so they had plenty of access to greens, and certainly the egg yolks were deep orange color and tasted so good--I remember once asking 3 times for more eggs, at breakfast. Argall Family wrote: > Julie asked: > > "...Can anyone tell me if there are any PRIVATE > organic certifiers that require pasture-access for livestock at all? (dairy > cattle, laying hens, and now meat animals)." > > Certainly in Australia the accredited private certifying organisations must > meet the National Standard [relevant extract below]. > > The Australian Capital Territory (ACT), where I live (a bit equivalent to > the District of Columbia) in 1997 passed legislation banning the sale of > eggs from battery hens, in the knowledge that the law could not come into > effect immediately as it amounted to a restraint in trade and required a > public interest inquiry by the federal Productivity Commission. The report > of the Productivity Commission is at > http://www.indcom.gov.au/inquiry/batthen/report/index.html There may be > information there of relevance elsewhere. The upshot is that the ACT law can > only come into effect when all the states pass similar laws. This has been > pursued nationally by the Greens Party and some others, but without success > so far. > > Dennis > ==== > extract from The Australian National Standard > for Organic and Bio-dynamic Produce > Second Edition > Organic Produce Advisory Committee, Australian Quarantine and Inspection > Service > Copyright ISBN 0-646-35460-4 > > " > 3.27 Animals must have free access to pasture. Choice feeding, whereby > animals are provided with a wide variety of food natural to their diet, is > the preferred method of providing the livestock diet. > > 3.28 In cases of extreme climatic [in Australia this means drought] or other > extenuating circumstances (such as fires) exemption to fodder inputs may be > granted whereby inputs from other sources may be up to 40% of the dry matter > intake. The use of such feed should be sourced from, in the first instance > (i) in conversion fodder, or > (ii) conventionally produced fodder which may only be used after it has been > demonstrated that products from i) are unavailable. > Where feed is sourced from (i) above certification status is unaffected. > Livestock fed from source (ii) above must, however, be fed on organically > sourced inputs for a consecutive 6 month period before regaining organic > status. Livestock product residue testing may be required. > > 3.29 The grazing of animals in natural/rangeland areas [this is a wilderness > protection concern] is considered part of an organic production method > provided that the following are met: > - grazing occurs within clearly defined areas that are subject to the > inspection measures set out in Section 5; > - those areas have received no treatments with products other than those > referred to in Annex I for a period of three years before grazing; > - the grazing does not disturb the stability of the natural habitat. > Monitoring of re-establishment and/or maintenance of the original native > species must be undertaken; > - the animals are managed according to this Standard. > > 3.30 Maintenance of livestock must be guided by an attitude of care, > responsibility and respect for living creatures. Pain inflicted by > treatments such as castrating, marking and mulesing, must be kept to a > minimum. The use of anaesthetics will not result in loss of organic status. > Stress must be minimised. Living conditions must consider the natural needs > of the animal for free movement, food, water, shelter and shade. > Consideration must be given to their specific natural behavioural patterns > and access provided to pasture at all times. > > 3.31 The use of artificial practices such as lighting to increase > productivity is not permitted." > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 7 19:34:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15114 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17874 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17864 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07916 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0059.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.59]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23864; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AB19B2.B3556FB9@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:21:54 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jane Sooby CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: scratchin' chooks and vintage research References: <4.1.19990805153647.0094d300@mail.scruznet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2065 trouble is, many libraries discarded those old bulletins. I remember being shown a drawer full of them, by the librarian, in Petaluma, Calif.--country town. Jane Sooby wrote: > Greg wrote: > > >I would strongly suggest you go to the University library and pick up some > >old books on poultry production. ... The research has already been done to > >demonstrate the effectiveness of various pasture species in non-ruminant > animal >production. > > And, I would add, has already been done on many low-input technologies. The > North Central region SARE call for proposals last year contained a specific > request for projects that locate data from old research that can be > utilized in this neo-organic era. If anyone knows of any such projects that > were funded, why don't you post a message and tell us what you're digging > up? I also recommend that folks look carefully at the old ag station and > land grant bulletins and reports from way back when to glean ideas for > approaches we can use now--or discard as not worthwhile. > Jane Sooby > technical program coordinator > Organic Farming Research Foundation > P.O. Box 440 > Santa Cruz, CA 95061 > 831-426-6606 > 831-426-6670 fax > 831-460-9713 home > www.ofrf.org > jane@ofrf.org > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 7 19:34:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA15108 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17922 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0059.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.59]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24103; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AB1FC9.6033116A@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:47:53 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cecile Mills CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture References: <4.1.19990731200147.00a26a60@mail.clarityconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2066 I know that my parents, missionaries, always helped the natives, directly. But the mission never got quantity food to distribute, such as sacks of rice. Individual missionaries could give what theywanted to the poor they encountered. Some poor from our town's native village would come to our house and sit on the porch. My parents always gave them what they needed. What I'd like to do now is go back to Madagascar and teach women to read, so they could read the Bible--just about the only literature widely available, even there. I don't think I could ever handle large food distribution, but if any quantities of rice, manioc, etc ever came my way, I'd certainly know how to make sure it reached hungry individuals. I can never forget what Isaw, growing up there. ========================== Cecile Mills wrote: > >I know that, even if there were plenty > >of food sent to starving Africans, etc., those starving people would not get. > >it Somehow the food would not get there or get there and rot on the docks, or > >be grabbed by some greedy person who would keep it until it rotted because the > >hungry poor could not afford it. > > I read about this sequence of events in the early sixties in the book "The > Ugly American." Since we haven't gotten a delivery system down pat in > thirty years, perhaps we should help the government department(s) > responsible for poor delivery by suggesting some solutions or paths to > follow towards getting the food sent by well-meaning donatoss and unwilling > tax payers to the intended recipient. If we can send a man to the moon, > etc. etc. > > seaseal@got.net > > believe it just before you see it To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 7 20:44:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA15617 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 20:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00950 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:54:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00932 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08836 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-7.ofrf.org (ofrf7.tychonet.com [205.179.36.7]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id QAA15772 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 16:54:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jane@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990807165056.00947860@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: jane2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 16:53:41 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: Re: Hiroshima and Nagasaki In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2067 Dear Misha, Thank you for the remembrance of these atrocities. Peace activism led me to agricultural activism; they are intimately connected for those who honor the Earth and its creatures. Jane Sooby technical program coordinator Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-426-6606 831-426-6670 fax 831-460-9713 home www.ofrf.org jane@ofrf.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 7 21:50:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA16142 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 21:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14278 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 21:03:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14180 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 21:03:31 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@PCSIA.COM Received: from www.pcsia.com (pcsia.com [206.162.14.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA20183 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 21:07:00 -0400 (EDT) X-ROUTED: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 20:03:04 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.73] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1416333c ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 20:02:50 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990807195539.008adb60@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 19:55:39 -0500 To: Subject: Re: Avery/Salatin Debate Transcripts In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2068 " But when you give to the needy (or sustainable ag. farmers), do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Matthew 6:3 New International Version of the Christian's Bible To paraphase a Country and Western song, "What part of anonymous don't you understand?" Mike Miller At 18:29 07-08-99 -0600, you wrote: > >Isn't that website Lawrence London's website? I bet he donated that cash. > >Jeff Ishee wrote: > >> I would like to announce to the list that an anonymous donor has >> covered the cost of transcribing a recent two-hour debate between Dennis >> Avery and Joel Salatin. Thanks to the donor and also to Craig Cramer who >> is working on posting the complete debate, word-for-word, at the >> Sustainable Farming Connection website. Give him a little time to code >> it for HTML, and it should be up as soon as possible. >> >> http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection >> >> If you are looking for a no-holds barred, thought-provoking, >> sparks-a-flying debate about modern agricultural policies and practices, >> you'll want to make this a priority on your reading list. >> Thanks again to the anonymous donor and to Craig Cramer, and to all of >> you for your interest in this debate. >> A one-page sample follows below. The complete debate is 24 typewritten >> pages. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Jeff Ishee >> Farm Director, WSVA Radio >> P.O. Box 752 >> Harrisonburg, VA 22801 >> www.valleyradio.com/agri >> >> ************************ >> portion of debate (all transcribed word-for-word) >> >> (on the topic of organic vs. conventional foods relating to cancer >> risks) >> >> Avery: There are varying shades of gray, black, and white, but really, I >> mean that . . . for example your cancer scare. It's out the window, and >> yet you guys are sticking with it. >> >> Salatin: You're trying to suggest . . . >> >> Avery: Where is the cancer threat? >> >> Salatin: I can show you report after report after report, and I know >> people who have died from pesticide exposure and from herbicide >> exposure. We have a lot of customers . . . >> >> Avery: Joel, you don't know of any such thing. >> >> Salatin: Of course I do. I talk with these people. >> >> Avery: You believe it, but . . . >> >> Salatin: Look, you can sit there in front of a computer all day, and you >> can look at your statisticians and you databases, but I know people. If >> you don't live in that world, that's not the real world. That's a >> fantasy world of government flying around, jetting around the country >> telling people what's going to happen in fifty years by looking at >> databases and reading scientific journals. We have customers that come >> to us from medical doctors with environmental sensitivities caused by >> residues, hormones, call it what you will, pesticides, herbicides . . . >> >> Avery: Or allergies. >> >> Salatin: Or allergies, but most of them are not. They are sensitivities >> to the problems, and whether it's food dye number 29 or whatever, that's >> in food. These are our friends. There are not part of any computer >> database. >> >> Avery: I had a letter from a lady in Indianapolis who said that organic >> food had saved her life twice, because she'd had cancer twice. (laughs) >> I thought the organic food was supposed to prevent her from getting >> cancer, and that recovering from cancer should reflect some credit on >> her doctors. She really believed that eating organic food had cured her >> from cancer twice, having gotten cancer twice. I mean, this is not a >> rational reality. >> >> Salatin: It is irrational, it is absolutely irrational, to think that >> there is nothing about a chicken or a pig or a cow that is unique, and >> that is any different than a computer or a robotic machine. That is not >> real. >> >> Avery: Who is saying that? >> >> Salatin: Well, you are. >> >> Avery: Oh, heavens no. Biology is . . . >> >> Salatin: You don't care about humane . . . >> >> Avery: Biology is infinitely more complex than a robot or a computer. >> >> Salatin: Ahhh. Yes. So biology and industry are different. And yet the >> whole predication of genetically modified organisms, irradiation, and >> everything else you are espousing, it's all predicated on a philosophy >> that animals and plants are simply machines. >> >> Avery: No. No. No. No. No. >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 00:29:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA17900 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15282 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15243 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA17520; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA26461; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:46:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 23:46:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Bargyla Rateaver cc: Jeff Ishee , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery/Salatin Debate Transcripts In-Reply-To: <37AB1A40.3955F255@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2069 On Fri, 6 Aug 1999, Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > Isn't that website Lawrence London's website? I bet he donated that cash. I appreciate the thought, Bargyla, but it is Craig Cramer's website, The Sustainable Farming Connection, also at MetaLab. Craig was editor of New Farm magazine. I'm sure you remeber that nice publication. I was not the anonymous donor. > Jeff Ishee wrote: > > > I would like to announce to the list that an anonymous donor has > > covered the cost of transcribing a recent two-hour debate between Dennis > > Avery and Joel Salatin. Thanks to the donor and also to Craig Cramer who > > is working on posting the complete debate, word-for-word, at the > > Sustainable Farming Connection website. Give him a little time to code > > it for HTML, and it should be up as soon as possible. > > > > http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection > > ************************ > > portion of debate (all transcribed word-for-word) > > > > Avery: Or allergies. > > > > Salatin: Or allergies, but most of them are not. They are sensitivities > > to the problems, and whether it's food dye number 29 or whatever, that's > > in food. These are our friends. There are not part of any computer > > database. > > > > Avery: I had a letter from a lady in Indianapolis who said that organic > > food had saved her life twice, because she'd had cancer twice. (laughs) Maybe he should try a stint on Broadway. > > I thought the organic food was supposed to prevent her from getting > > cancer, and that recovering from cancer should reflect some credit on > > her doctors. She really believed that eating organic food had cured her > > from cancer twice, having gotten cancer twice. I mean, this is not a > > rational reality. Good grief, Avery really is a cretin. I thought he might have been better than this. He is not capable of intelligent debate. Why did Salatin even bother with him? Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 01:07:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA18169 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 01:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA11751 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11683 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12263 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA17994; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA27682; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:32:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 00:32:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Jane Sooby cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: scratchin' chooks and vintage research In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990805153647.0094d300@mail.scruznet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2070 On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Jane Sooby wrote: > >I would strongly suggest you go to the University library and pick up some > >old books on poultry production. ... The research has already been done to > >demonstrate the effectiveness of various pasture species in non-ruminant > animal >production. > > And, I would add, has already been done on many low-input technologies. The > North Central region SARE call for proposals last year contained a specific > request for projects that locate data from old research that can be > utilized in this neo-organic era. If anyone knows of any such projects that > were funded, why don't you post a message and tell us what you're digging > up? I also recommend that folks look carefully at the old ag station and > land grant bulletins and reports from way back when to glean ideas for > approaches we can use now--or discard as not worthwhile. Here are a few out-of-print poultry books: - The book Greg recommended: Feeds and Feeding A Handbook for the Student and Stockman Frank B. Morrison Morrison Publishing Company first publisheed 1898, 22nd Edition, 1957 1165 pps. - Poultry books: Successful Poultry Management Morley A. Jull 1943, McGraw-Hill Book Co. 467 pps. Poultry Management Heuser, Hall, Bruckner, Gregory 1952, J.B. Lippincott Co. 565 pps. The Rural Science Series Edited by L.H. Bailey MacMillan, publisher - Practical Poultry-Farming Louis M. Hurd first published 1928, my copy is 1942, MacMillan 454 pps. . Farm Poultry by Watson . The Feeding of Animals by Jordan . The Diseases of Animals by Mayo - Lippincott's Farm Manuals Edited by Kary C. Davis, PhD (Cornell) - Productive Poultry Husbandry A Complete Text Dealing With the Principles and Practices Involved in the Management of Poultry By Harry R. Lewis, B.S. 329 Illustrations in the Text 2nd edition, 1914 536 pps. J.B. Lippincott, publisher Poultry Production by William Adams Lippincott Professor of Poultry Husbandry, Kansas State Agricultural College 3rd Rev. Ed. 1921 541 pps. with 243 engravings Lea & Feibiger, publisher Philadelphia and New York [my copy was once on the shelves of Pocono Mountain Jr.-Sr. High School Library Swiftwater, Pennsylvania Pocono Township Consolidated and High School Book No. 5] - American Livestock Breeds Conservancy (ALBC), in Pittsboro, N.C., probably has many titles on poultry production in their library. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 08:47:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA20573 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 08:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA23191 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 07:58:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23174 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 07:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.66.101.179] (SC-179.got.net [209.66.101.179]) by always.got.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA97438 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 04:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 04:57:52 -0700 To: Sustainable Ag Net From: Cecile Mills Subject: RE: Two Mindsets Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2071 Re: Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture >I know that, even if there were plenty of food sent to starving >Africans, etc., those starving people would not get. it Somehow >the food would not get there or get there and rot on the docks, or >be grabbed by some greedy person who would keep it until it rotted >because the hungry poor could not afford it. > I read about this sequence of events in the early sixties in the book "The Ugly American." Since we haven't gotten a delivery system down pat in thirty years, perhaps we should help the government department(s) responsible for poor delivery by suggesting some solutions or paths to follow towards getting the food sent by well-meaning donatoss and unwilling tax payers to the intended recipient. If we can send a man to the moon, etc. etc. seaseal@got.net believe it just before you see it To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 10:05:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA20913 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24257 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:22:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24246 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [0.0.0.0] by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via hatert.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.7] with SMTP for id PAA04084 (8.8.8/1.19); Sun, 8 Aug 1999 15:22:22 +0200 (MET DST) X-NUPop-Charset: English Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 15:11:28 +0100 (CET) From: "f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net" Reply-To: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net Message-Id: <54690.f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Say Goodbye to your lawn Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2072 > The large lawn is an artificial creation, encouraged by those who want to > sell us lawn mowers, chemicals and irrigation systems. When watching TV I always look for the 'green' like trees, gardens etc. and less to what the programmmakers meant to show. The gardens around US (generalizing, sorry) houses I have always seen as very boaring but I have always thought that the people living there are just not interrested in plants, trees, birds etc. If I lived there I know my garden would be alive, very diverse, grassfree and green,green,green. Being lucky I do have a garden like that, and in summer it's not possible to see the house from the back or look trough the windows from the street. Frits v/d laan Organic horticulture /biologische boomkwekerij Gouda http://web.inter.nl.net/users/F.vd.Laan/ f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net The Netherlands To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 11:25:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA22659 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23133 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:40:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23127 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([152.168.131.40]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 164; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:43:49 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990808094048.00ad7650@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 09:40:48 -0500 To: Cecile Mills , Sustainable Ag Net From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: RE: Two Mindsets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2073 why not get out of the way and let people grow their own food? At 04:57 AM 8/8/99 -0700, Cecile Mills wrote: >Re: Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture > >>I know that, even if there were plenty of food sent to starving >>Africans, etc., those starving people would not get. it Somehow >>the food would not get there or get there and rot on the docks, or >>be grabbed by some greedy person who would keep it until it rotted >>because the hungry poor could not afford it. >> >I read about this sequence of events in the early sixties in the book "The >Ugly American." Since we haven't gotten a delivery system down pat in >thirty years, perhaps we should help the government department(s) >responsible for poor delivery by suggesting some solutions or paths to >follow towards getting the food sent by well-meaning donatoss and unwilling >tax payers to the intended recipient. If we can send a man to the moon, >etc. etc. > >seaseal@got.net > >believe it just before you see it > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 13:56:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA24397 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21373 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:17:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.clarityconnect.com (smtp.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21355 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clarityconnect.com (206.64.143.5) by smtp.clarityconnect.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d1); Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:16:03 -0400 Received: from Craig (24.95.191.247) by clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.3d2); Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:08:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990808130911.0099c4f0@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: cdcramer@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 13:12:38 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Craig Cramer Subject: Avery v. Salatin is online Cc: farmsted@cfw.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2074 The Avery v. Salatin debate can now be found online at: http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/ruralwri/features/asdebate.htm It's about 82K, so be patient if you have a slow connection. I didn't have time to proofread my coding. If you spot any major gaffs, please let me know. Thanks again to Jeff Ishee for making this possible. Enjoy. Craig Craig Cramer mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming http://1000ways.baka.com Sustainable Farming Connection http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 15:23:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA25696 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 15:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27615 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27563 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22842 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24973; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA17424; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:43:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:43:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Jane Sooby cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: scratchin' chooks and vintage research In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990805153647.0094d300@mail.scruznet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2075 On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Jane Sooby wrote: > >I would strongly suggest you go to the University library and pick up some > >old books on poultry production. ... The research has already been done to > >demonstrate the effectiveness of various pasture species in non-ruminant > animal >production. > > And, I would add, has already been done on many low-input technologies. The > North Central region SARE call for proposals last year contained a specific > request for projects that locate data from old research that can be > utilized in this neo-organic era. If anyone knows of any such projects that > were funded, why don't you post a message and tell us what you're digging > up? I also recommend that folks look carefully at the old ag station and > land grant bulletins and reports from way back when to glean ideas for > approaches we can use now--or discard as not worthwhile. The best list of old farming titles I have ever seen is here: http://www.soilandhealth.org/index.html with two pages of bibliography at: http://www.soilandhealth.orgaglibrary/01aglibwelcome.html this page contains full text of some out of print books and http://www.soilandhealth.orgaglibrary/0103Agribib.html Found this site while browsing The Sustainable Farming Connection at: Rural Writings Menu http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/ruralwri/home.htm Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 17:02:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA26827 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06638 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 16:19:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA06623 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 16:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.51] [199.175.106.57] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11DZPD-0006dHC for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:18:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:21:06 +0000 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: Irish sugar Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2076 Those cowardly faceless people had better beware, remember Novartis has threatened to withhold non-GMO sugar beet seed if there is continued biotech resistance in Ireland. MONSANTO IRISH GM SUGAR BEET DAMAGED BY CHEMICALS -REPORT August 6, 1999 Dow Jones/ Reuters DUBLIN-- The Irish Times was cited as reporting Friday about 60% of a Monsanto (MTC) trial site of genetically-modified sugar beet in southeastern Ireland has been contaminated by what appeared to be a petroleum-based chemical that had been sprayed on the crop. The story adds that no group claimed responsibility for the alleged attack, and it was unclear when the incident took place. The Irish Times quoted Dr. Patrick O'Reilly, Monsanto's business manager in Ireland, as saying the attack was "a cowardly act carried out by faceless people." Separately, a number of groups opposed to GM foods plan to protest at a site of another GM sugar beet trial in Cork on Sunday. Irish environmental group Genetic Concern spokeswoman Sadhbh O'Neill was cited as saying that while it did not itself engage in direct action against trial crops, it understood that some people were "very frustrated by the regulatory processes. ... Over 3,500 people in this country objected to these field trials but they were approved by the authorities nonetheless. These trials -- and there are currently four under way in Ireland -- are not being conducted by independent scientists but by the company itself. We don't believe the resultant analyses are being monitored closely enough by the authorities." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From kmarsh@iol.ie Sun Aug 8 17:21:26 1999 Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail1.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.192]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA27018 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.147.39] (dialup-0807.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.147.39]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22307; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 22:10:02 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990805153647.0094d300@mail.scruznet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:28:29 +0100 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: scratchin' chooks and vintage research Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2077 On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Jane Sooby wrote: > >I would strongly suggest you go to the University library and pick up some > >old books on poultry production. ... The research has already been done to > >demonstrate the effectiveness of various pasture species in non-ruminant > animal >production. This side of the atlantic can I strongly urge people to hunt for vintage volumes of the "smallholders encyclopaedia" kathryn From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 17:54:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA27892 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25541 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:11:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25513 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail1.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.192]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24643 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.147.39] (dialup-0807.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.147.39]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22307; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 22:10:02 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990805153647.0094d300@mail.scruznet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:28:29 +0100 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: scratchin' chooks and vintage research Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2078 On Thu, 5 Aug 1999, Jane Sooby wrote: > >I would strongly suggest you go to the University library and pick up some > >old books on poultry production. ... The research has already been done to > >demonstrate the effectiveness of various pasture species in non-ruminant > animal >production. This side of the atlantic can I strongly urge people to hunt for vintage volumes of the "smallholders encyclopaedia" kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 19:42:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA29355 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04497 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:05:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04416 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from organic-harvest@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EHJL4V8G; Sun, 08 Aug 1999 19:02:19 EDT To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:23:33 -0400 Subject: Future Generations of Family Farmers Message-ID: <19990808.180742.3926.0.organic-harvest@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-4,12-13,17-18,24-25,34-35,42-43,47-48,54-55, 59-60,66-74 From: Barbara R Buchmayer Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2079 Dear Marian My view of where future farmers will come from is quite different from Ann Clark's. My husband and I have farmed for about 20 years, never quite conventional farmers more like lunatic fringe. We have known a lot of conventional family farmers and have seen some of them evolve into sustainable or organic farmers. We have also known and been friends with the "new "farmers, those that have chosen to farm but were not really raised on a farm or even in a rural area. In fact my husband is from a century farm and I was raised in the 5 acre suburbs, but I always knew I was to be a farmer. We have recently started bottling our organic milk and selling it in a metropolitan area. So after 20 years we have moved from intensive grazing on our dairy to not only being graziers but being organic and adding value as well. I believe the future family farmers will be four major groups, depending on how you define "family farmers". These groups being: traditional farmers that have evolved into direct marketers or value-adders or both; "new" farmers that are innovative but not terribly tied to the land; contract growers that really are surfs on their own farms for some large corporation; and large conventional farmers. 1) The strongest or toughest of these will be the farmers that have evolved or young farmers with traditional backgrounds that are drawn to sustainable farming as the only alternative they and the land can live with. These are the people who are committed to farming and will work their butts off because they can see no other meaningful use for their lives that can provide comparable satisfaction. These people know how to work and we are talking 80 hours a week as being nothing unusual. Some will evolve because they realize it is the right direction for them and others will be forced by finances to change or get out. 2) The "new" farmers will be around, from my experience about 5 years before they realize they don't have the skills, money, commitment or whatever it does take to hang in there. They will add much depth and bring a lot of diversity to the farming community but in the end they really aren't committed to the land and will move on to greener pastures in other career areas. These are the ones that want to farm, have a lot to offer the ag community but really don't want to sacrifice too much. 3) The contract growers will survive on their farms but most of their freedom will have been taken from them in exchange for security. I don't have a clue how large this group will be but I doubt there will be very many "happy campers" among them. 4) Large conventional farmers will still be around. There seems to be no limit in size for these guys and yet they truly are family owned and managed farms. How many dairy cows can one farmer deal with? Ten , twenty or maybe even thirty thousand. Its not for me but they are expanding every day with the only limits in sight being laws governing total numbers of animals per acre and "safe" manure disposal. Sadly, I don't see a lot of farmers able or willing to be direct marketers or value-adders or a lot of "new" farmers with the resources and desire to make a go of it. I would like to see lots of sustainable and organic farmers for the good of the land and future generations. I think if we really want to have lots of family farmers we would have to impose some type of quota system guaranteeing good prices for specific amounts of commodity with any overage selling at much lower market prices. Something similar to the dairy quotas in Canada with all the pros and cons inherent to a quota system. It boils down to: Are we willing to trade our freedom and independence for security? How far are we willing to go to preserve the family farm? Barb Buchmayer Green Hills Harvest organic-harvest@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 8 21:17:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA00153 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 21:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04459 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:41:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04425 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0041.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.41]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20094; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37ACBABC.BDB2D8EB@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 16:01:16 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Emily Young CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: farmers markets References: <19990805182654.33044.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2080 Ecology Center in Berkeley,Ca is very old. I remember itfrom studend days, 40 yrs ago. It should be reliable. Emily Young wrote: > Hello Again- > > One more question comes to mind, If I could ask..... > > I am from Berkeley, California. The Berkeley Farmers Market is sponsored by > a non profit, The Ecology Center. The Center promotes the market, sells > booths to farmers, and regulates the activity of the market, i.e. who is > allowed to sell. I am told that other farmers markets are sponsored by > something such as the Chamber of Commerce. When this is the case, the market > is often not as focused on organics, I have heard. (?) > > I am interested in the support for farmers markets. I wonder if you all > could tell me who is responsible for the farmers markets that you > participate in, whether it be an organization, or a town. Is there a fee to > participate or guidelines to what venders can sell? Is there a general > farmers market organization of some sort that helps start markets in new > areas? > > Thanks for anything you could share, > > Emily > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 01:36:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA04881 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 01:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA11783 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 00:50:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11682 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 00:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.32.12] (ppp-206-170-32-12.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.32.12]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21808 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 21:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 21:42:57 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Old ag publications and the cost of memory Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2081 Howdy, all-- An interesting issue that Larry London seeded here re: the value of older ag publications, many of which, because they predate chemical intensive methods, contain rich humus for us sustaggies...and anyone concerned with agricultural practices invented sometime prior to last year by Corporation X in "university-industry partnership" with Land Grant Z. A few thoughts. 1) Many land grant college of ag libraries have large holdings of these old publications; some are being decatalogued and disposed of at a frightening rate. When I was at UW-Madison, ag library staff were pressured to make room for new publications, and that often means that older ones go to Cutter collections...or the dumpster or book sales. But at Madison's ag library--Steenbock--there were a number of folks with the good sense to know what riches these publications contained, and to foresee a day when people might once again care about what's in them. There were several folks engaged in trying to raise money to get these crumbling old ag publications into electronic format, so their contents would be preserved in that medium. If I remember correctly, there was a multi-land-grant initiative on this--and my notes on this are back in Madison. I'm cc'ing this note to Gretchen Farwell, the assistant director of Steenbock and a long-time advocate of sustainable ag information systems. If she replies, I'll post any helpful info to the group, or she can. Gretchen, thanks in advance. 2) The loss of cultural memory in agriculture, to my view, is no less important than the loss of, say, a language. I always think of the National Yiddish Book Center, founded out of the efforts of one man, Aaron Lansky, who while a student of Yiddish literature in Montreal realized that countless books in Yiddish were being discarded. These books--the property and cultural memory of people who had survived the /pogroms/ of eastern Europe, the Holocaust, and Stalin's "reforms"--were sometimes discarded by the children or grandchildren of those people, either because they couldn't read them, or didn't see the value in them. Lansky made it his life's work to collect these books, and he recruited other young people to do this also. In 1980 he founded the NYBC (a loft in a building in New York, I seem to remember), and it grew from this early collection of cast-off books to a cultural center in Amherst, MA, with holdings of 1.4 million books in a language that has been revitalized, largely thanks to his efforts. (In 1980, Yiddish experts believed that there were perhaps 70,000 extant books in the language worldwide; they were off by some orders of magnitude.) The NYBC has also built Yiddish book collections at scholarly libraries all over the world, as it has come across duplicate editions of books. Thus the written cultural memory of a people in diaspora has been preserved, and allowed to find its way back into living memory. Who is doing this for old ag publications? Who is going to farm auctions to look for old treatises on husbandry, mechanicking, breeding, etc.? How often does it happen that an elder ag agent passes away, or surviving widow/er does, and a lifetime collection of books and periodicals is lost? Or a rural library closes, ditto? Where are the regional or state or private holdings of these materials, and who is talking to their collectors? Who is developing annotated bibliographies of the catalogued and uncatalogued materials? The luminous and wonderful Walworth Co., WI, ag agent Lee Cunningham and I have had this discussion several times over the course of the past 5 or 6 years. He makes it part of his calling to give a home to old ag publications that he finds, or that people offer him. He said that people come to him because they try to donate books to their local libraries and are told that the libraries don't have the resources of shelf space or cataloguing labor to bring the books into their collections. Of course preference for those resources goes to Danielle Steel or Tom Clancy best sellers, since libraries now must justify their existence by stocking what the customers want. And libraries no longer collect books to preserve them. They are subject to vast economies of preference, taste, revenues, and technological capacity. In other words, demand means shelf space--in libraries, as in supermarkets. So I ask again--who is doing this for pre-high-chemical/high-tech ag books? Who in sustainable agriculture should assess and speak on behalf of this loss of cultural memory? I know that the National Agricultural Library does what it can--but when's the last time those folks had the resources to publicize NAL's holdings of those materials, or make them available in more easily replicable media, or develop user's guides or navigational guides to what's out there? I have serious concerns that most of sustainable ag's resources--both at the national and regional level--are being targeted at the production of new information via research funding. And that very little, if any, is being targeted at the creation of KNOWLEDGE COMMUNITIES or that preserve that information, and put it into context--a context that includes not only the new findings, but the older ones as well. Or KNOWLEDGE NAVIGATION TOOLS that allow people to access this information. Efforts to do this have struggled uphill like a VW Beetle in the Rocky Mts., running with a hot # 3 cylinder and worn-down points. Look at the struggles that the Alternative Farming Systems Information Center at NAL faces--AFSIC's staff for years now have tried to fill some of this role, doing carefully honed Agricola searches of NAL holdings to help us seekers of information know what's available. A service like that, Dan Glickman should be handing them big foamcore-mounted checks at press conferences, saying thank you with numbers with many zeroes behind it. 3) Finally, I've said this before (Cramer, you can plug your ears, because you've heard this rant more than a couple dozen times :^) but the consolidation of the publishing and telecommunications industry, coupled with the privatization of Extension, promises DISASTER for sustainable ag and the cultural memory we are trying to build with current sustag information products. If public institutions don't take up this slack, then sustainable ag information and communications will inevitably go to the highest private or corporate bidder. Wanna start making some guesses as to who that could be? Our information products are highly unlikely to able to either maintain market share *or* exist on a cost-recovery basis. Unless, of course, sustainable ag is recast as something to sell to the masses (mainstream farmers) and the cutting-edge nature of it is blunted...or forgotten.. Robert Rodale knew this--he was happy to publish /The New Farm/ and let other publications pay for it. I've heard him blasted as a poor businessman, but he certainly knew how to build an effective knowledge network. We in sustag have limited ability, in a fragmented way, to create information products within our various organizations...but then these products are so dispersed, and the organizations so poorly networked, that I see us as the equivalent of mediaeval monastic libraries in the Dark Ages. A bunch of people scattered across the world, trying to keep our respective little candles burning in a howling cultural/economic wind. The Internet has been one of the only ways we've had to talk to each other, and many of us here on SANET got here in the good old days, when universal access was still a principle of Internetworking. (AOL kissed that good bye, for everyone, in a big way by equating access with how much money they could make getting as many people as possible "on the Net" to look for--never mind.) The physics of publishing are increasingly moving in the same direction as everything else in the economy: cheap, mass scale products or costly, luxury ones. Finding publishers who will produce and then market a book (never mind a pamphlet or CD or video) with a limited-at-best readership grows ever more difficult. Niche publishers struggle along till their well-intentioned people burn out under the heat of their own efforts. This is why ATTRA is such an EXPONENTIALLY IMPORTANT INITIATIVE. Their library of sustainable-farmer-oriented literature could prove to be one of the most critical cultural resources in the nation someday. Not to mention the perfect information and knowledge complement to NAL's holdings of scholarly literature. This is why the Sustainable Farming Connection Web site was such a BRILLIANT IDEA (though it never got the resource support it needed to get it truly off the ground and sustain it as it deserves). Enough for now. Larry, thanks for seeding the topic. I wish we could all mosey across the street to The Sand Bar, the little neighborhood pub that advertises itself as "on the edge of Western civilization," and put our feet up, and talk about this stuff till the wee hours. Lacking the luxury of realtime conversation amongst us all...gods, I'm grateful for this Internet group. Thanks Andy, Abioli, Jane, and USDA/NAL. We often neglect to bow in your direction. And thanks, all, for listening. Writing from lands end, I wish you all peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We're not against ideas. We're against people spreading them. --Augusto Pinochet To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 08:13:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA08515 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:13:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA28852 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:15:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28805 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 96; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 06:18:14 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990809061315.00b8cd00@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 06:13:15 -0500 To: Misha , SANET-mg From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: Re: Old ag publications and the cost of memory In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2082 And what about the audio and video tapes? IATP has a collection, but what is needed is a very complete and well documented archive someplace. At 09:42 PM 8/8/99 -0700, Misha wrote: >Howdy, all-- > >An interesting issue that Larry London seeded here re: the value of >older ag publications, many of which, because they predate chemical >intensive methods, contain rich humus for us sustaggies...and anyone >concerned with agricultural practices invented sometime prior to last >year by Corporation X in "university-industry partnership" with Land >Grant Z. > >A few thoughts. > >1) Many land grant college of ag libraries have large holdings of >these old publications; some are being decatalogued and disposed of >at a frightening rate. When I was at UW-Madison, ag library staff >were pressured to make room for new publications, and that often >means that older ones go to Cutter collections...or the dumpster or >book sales. > >But at Madison's ag library--Steenbock--there were a number of folks >with the good sense to know what riches these publications contained, >and to foresee a day when people might once again care about what's >in them. There were several folks engaged in trying to raise money to >get these crumbling old ag publications into electronic format, so >their contents would be preserved in that medium. If I remember >correctly, there was a multi-land-grant initiative on this--and my >notes on this are back in Madison. I'm cc'ing this note to Gretchen >Farwell, the assistant director of Steenbock and a long-time advocate >of sustainable ag information systems. If she replies, I'll post any >helpful info to the group, or she can. Gretchen, thanks in advance. > >2) The loss of cultural memory in agriculture, to my view, is no less >important than the loss of, say, a language. I always think of the >National Yiddish Book Center, founded out of the efforts of one man, >Aaron Lansky, who while a student of Yiddish literature in Montreal >realized that countless books in Yiddish were being discarded. These >books--the property and cultural memory of people who had survived >the /pogroms/ of eastern Europe, the Holocaust, and Stalin's >"reforms"--were sometimes discarded by the children or grandchildren >of those people, either because they couldn't read them, or didn't >see the value in them. Lansky made it his life's work to collect >these books, and he recruited other young people to do this also. In >1980 he founded the NYBC (a loft in a building in New York, I seem to >remember), and it grew from this early collection of cast-off books >to a cultural center in Amherst, MA, with holdings of 1.4 million >books in a language that has been revitalized, largely thanks to his >efforts. (In 1980, Yiddish experts believed that there were perhaps >70,000 extant books in the language worldwide; they were off by some >orders of magnitude.) The NYBC has also built Yiddish book >collections at scholarly libraries all over the world, as it has come >across duplicate editions of books. Thus the written cultural memory >of a people in diaspora has been preserved, and allowed to find its >way back into living memory. > >Who is doing this for old ag publications? Who is going to farm >auctions to look for old treatises on husbandry, mechanicking, >breeding, etc.? How often does it happen that an elder ag agent >passes away, or surviving widow/er does, and a lifetime collection of >books and periodicals is lost? Or a rural library closes, ditto? >Where are the regional or state or private holdings of these >materials, and who is talking to their collectors? Who is developing >annotated bibliographies of the catalogued and uncatalogued materials? > >The luminous and wonderful Walworth Co., WI, ag agent Lee Cunningham >and I have had this discussion several times over the course of the >past 5 or 6 years. He makes it part of his calling to give a home to >old ag publications that he finds, or that people offer him. He said >that people come to him because they try to donate books to their >local libraries and are told that the libraries don't have the >resources of shelf space or cataloguing labor to bring the books into >their collections. > >Of course preference for those resources goes to Danielle Steel or >Tom Clancy best sellers, since libraries now must justify their >existence by stocking what the customers want. And libraries no >longer collect books to preserve them. They are subject to vast >economies of preference, taste, revenues, and technological capacity. >In other words, demand means shelf space--in libraries, as in >supermarkets. > >So I ask again--who is doing this for pre-high-chemical/high-tech ag >books? Who in sustainable agriculture should assess and speak on >behalf of this loss of cultural memory? I know that the National >Agricultural Library does what it can--but when's the last time those >folks had the resources to publicize NAL's holdings of those >materials, or make them available in more easily replicable media, or >develop user's guides or navigational guides to what's out there? > >I have serious concerns that most of sustainable ag's resources--both >at the national and regional level--are being targeted at the >production of new information via research funding. And that very >little, if any, is being targeted at the creation of KNOWLEDGE >COMMUNITIES or that preserve that information, and put it into >context--a context that includes not only the new findings, but the >older ones as well. Or KNOWLEDGE NAVIGATION TOOLS that allow people >to access this information. > >Efforts to do this have struggled uphill like a VW Beetle in the >Rocky Mts., running with a hot # 3 cylinder and worn-down points. >Look at the struggles that the Alternative Farming Systems >Information Center at NAL faces--AFSIC's staff for years now have >tried to fill some of this role, doing carefully honed Agricola >searches of NAL holdings to help us seekers of information know >what's available. A service like that, Dan Glickman should be handing >them big foamcore-mounted checks at press conferences, saying thank >you with numbers with many zeroes behind it. > > >3) Finally, I've said this before (Cramer, you can plug your ears, >because you've heard this rant more than a couple dozen times :^) but >the consolidation of the publishing and telecommunications industry, >coupled with the privatization of Extension, promises DISASTER for >sustainable ag and the cultural memory we are trying to build with >current sustag information products. If public institutions don't >take up this slack, then sustainable ag information and >communications will inevitably go to the highest private or corporate >bidder. Wanna start making some guesses as to who that could be? > >Our information products are highly unlikely to able to either >maintain market share *or* exist on a cost-recovery basis. Unless, of >course, sustainable ag is recast as something to sell to the masses >(mainstream farmers) and the cutting-edge nature of it is >blunted...or forgotten.. > >Robert Rodale knew this--he was happy to publish /The New Farm/ and >let other publications pay for it. I've heard him blasted as a poor >businessman, but he certainly knew how to build an effective >knowledge network. > >We in sustag have limited ability, in a fragmented way, to create >information products within our various organizations...but then >these products are so dispersed, and the organizations so poorly >networked, that I see us as the equivalent of mediaeval monastic >libraries in the Dark Ages. A bunch of people scattered across the >world, trying to keep our respective little candles burning in a >howling cultural/economic wind. The Internet has been one of the only >ways we've had to talk to each other, and many of us here on SANET >got here in the good old days, when universal access was still a >principle of Internetworking. (AOL kissed that good bye, for >everyone, in a big way by equating access with how much money they >could make getting as many people as possible "on the Net" to look >for--never mind.) > >The physics of publishing are increasingly moving in the same >direction as everything else in the economy: cheap, mass scale >products or costly, luxury ones. Finding publishers who will produce >and then market a book (never mind a pamphlet or CD or video) with a >limited-at-best readership grows ever more difficult. Niche >publishers struggle along till their well-intentioned people burn out >under the heat of their own efforts. > >This is why ATTRA is such an EXPONENTIALLY IMPORTANT INITIATIVE. >Their library of sustainable-farmer-oriented literature could prove >to be one of the most critical cultural resources in the nation >someday. Not to mention the perfect information and knowledge >complement to NAL's holdings of scholarly literature. > >This is why the Sustainable Farming Connection Web site was such a >BRILLIANT IDEA (though it never got the resource support it needed to >get it truly off the ground and sustain it as it deserves). > >Enough for now. Larry, thanks for seeding the topic. I wish we could >all mosey across the street to The Sand Bar, the little neighborhood >pub that advertises itself as "on the edge of Western civilization," >and put our feet up, and talk about this stuff till the wee hours. > >Lacking the luxury of realtime conversation amongst us all...gods, >I'm grateful for this Internet group. Thanks Andy, Abioli, Jane, and >USDA/NAL. We often neglect to bow in your direction. > >And thanks, all, for listening. > >Writing from lands end, I wish you all > > >peace >misha > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Michele Gale-Sinex >Communications manager >Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison >http://www.wisc.edu >UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 >Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) >Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >We're not against ideas. We're against people spreading them. >--Augusto Pinochet > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 08:46:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA09071 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28418 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:00:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28413 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02521 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.129]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22894 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004701bee260$c4307380$817a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: Future Generations of Family Farmers Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:14:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2083 Hi all, First off, you offer some very good points! There are some areas I would like to offer my view points on. I have had some first hand experience in direct sales, that is farmers to consumers. The problem is most farmers are not good direct marketers. They aren't good at it and DON'T want to do it. It's not part of their farming plan. Not to say you arn't right, it's just that most people won't do it. A note on dairying program like the one in Canada, most of them are not happy at all with their program. They DO give up a lot of their freedom to do what they do. Go with God, Smitty -----Original Message----- From: Barbara R Buchmayer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 7:36 PM Subject: Future Generations of Family Farmers >Dear Marian > >My view of where future farmers will come from is quite different from >Ann Clark's. > >My husband and I have farmed for about 20 years, never quite conventional >farmers more like lunatic fringe. We have known a lot of conventional >family farmers and have seen some of them evolve into sustainable or >organic farmers. We have also known and been friends with the "new >"farmers, those that have chosen to farm but were not really raised on a >farm or even in a rural area. In fact my husband is from a century farm >and I was raised in the 5 acre suburbs, but I always knew I was to be a >farmer. > >We have recently started bottling our organic milk and selling it in a >metropolitan area. So after 20 years we have moved from intensive >grazing on our dairy to not only being graziers but being organic and >adding value as well. > >I believe the future family farmers will be four major groups, depending >on how you define "family farmers". These groups being: traditional >farmers that have evolved into direct marketers or value-adders or both; >"new" farmers that are innovative but not terribly tied to the land; >contract growers that really are surfs on their own farms for some large >corporation; and large conventional farmers. > > 1) The strongest or toughest of these will be the farmers that >have evolved or young farmers with traditional backgrounds that are >drawn to sustainable farming as the only alternative they and the land >can live with. These are the people who are committed to farming and >will work their butts off because they can see no other meaningful use >for their lives that can provide comparable satisfaction. These people >know how to work and we are talking 80 hours a week as being nothing >unusual. Some will evolve because they realize it is the right direction >for them and others will be forced by finances to change or get out. > > 2) The "new" farmers will be around, from my experience about 5 >years before they realize they don't have the skills, money, commitment >or whatever it does take to hang in there. They will add much depth and >bring a lot of diversity to the farming community but in the end they >really aren't committed to the land and will move on to greener pastures >in other career areas. These are the ones that want to farm, have a lot >to offer the ag community but really don't want to sacrifice too much. > > 3) The contract growers will survive on their farms but most of >their freedom will have been taken from them in exchange for security. I >don't have a clue how large this group will be but I doubt there will be >very many "happy campers" among them. > > 4) Large conventional farmers will still be around. There seems >to be no limit in size for these guys and yet they truly are family owned >and managed farms. How many dairy cows can one farmer deal with? Ten , >twenty or maybe even thirty thousand. Its not for me but they are >expanding every day with the only limits in sight being laws governing >total numbers of animals per acre and "safe" manure disposal. > >Sadly, I don't see a lot of farmers able or willing to be direct >marketers or value-adders or a lot of "new" farmers with the resources >and desire to make a go of it. I would like to see lots of sustainable >and organic farmers for the good of the land and future generations. > >I think if we really want to have lots of family farmers we would have to >impose some type of quota system guaranteeing good prices for specific >amounts of commodity with any overage selling at much lower market >prices. Something similar to the dairy quotas in Canada with all the >pros and cons inherent to a quota system. It boils down to: Are we >willing to trade our freedom and independence for security? > >How far are we willing to go to preserve the family farm? > >Barb Buchmayer >Green Hills Harvest >organic-harvest@juno.com > > > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 10:07:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10233 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:20:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16931 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA16826 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:18:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-38.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.38) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma016806; Mon Aug 9 08:18:34 1999 Message-ID: <008d01bee1a0$68a65220$26fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Re: Avery v. Salatin is online Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:17:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2084 Thank-you to all involved for getting this on the web. I know my procrastinating personality would never have aloud me to send away for the pages :). I enjoyed reading it. I understand the host's comments that he didn't even get to ask but a few of his questions. My question to the group, what did you think? What do you think John and Jane Q. Public would have thought. Frankly I thought it was mostly neutral with maybe Salatin sounding more knowledgeable. He really farms Avery spewed facts. Group? Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 10:22:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10477 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:22:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23242 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:32:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23183 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 257; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:35:24 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990809083356.00b91640@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 08:33:56 -0500 To: "Dan Hook" , From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: Re: Avery v. Salatin is online In-Reply-To: <008d01bee1a0$68a65220$26fb6ed1@dan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2085 is the audio original on line? At 09:17 AM 8/8/99 -0400, Dan Hook wrote: >Thank-you to all involved for getting this on the web. I know my >procrastinating personality would never have aloud me to send away for the >pages :). I enjoyed reading it. I understand the host's comments that he >didn't even get to ask but a few of his questions. My question to the >group, what did you think? What do you think John and Jane Q. Public would >have thought. Frankly I thought it was mostly neutral with maybe Salatin >sounding more knowledgeable. He really farms Avery spewed facts. Group? >Beth > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 10:29:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10596 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00666 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:43:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA00662 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA12669; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:43:20 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma011771; Mon, 9 Aug 99 08:42:37 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:42:37 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE81@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: Sustainable Ag Net Cc: "'Mark Ritchie'" Subject: Squashing local markets (was Two Mindsets) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:42:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2086 Mark, Bargyla wrote: >>I know that, even if there were plenty of food sent to starving >>Africans, etc., those starving people would not get. it Somehow >>the food would not get there or get there and rot on the docks, or >>be grabbed by some greedy person who would keep it until it rotted >>because the hungry poor could not afford it. It probably doesn't matter exactly how the grain enters the local economy when we are dealing with very large amounts. The greedy middle men will sell it. It will depress local prices regardless, and drive local farmers out of business. Mark wrote: > why not get out of the way and let people grow their own food? This morning on the way to work the news report said something about how important it is for the US to have a strong export policy to help ameliorate the US farm crisis. I thought about all those poor farmers in developing countries inundated with cheap grain. Of course, this is an old story and most of the damage has already been done. We are at a point right now where the world can produce considerably more grain than we need. We need to find ways to keep the surplus from destroying local markets without dismantling the infrastructure that produces surpluses. After all, in a few decades humans, collectively, are going to need every kernel of corn we can get our hands on. And we will need those local markets and production capacity too. The other imperative is how to control population growth without having a police state. Maybe we could devise chemicals to reduce sperm count... ;-O (just kidding). Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 10:41:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10829 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07078 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:54:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pratt.edu (acnet.pratt.edu [204.97.89.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07006 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pratt.edu (pc15370.pratt.edu [207.127.153.70]) by pratt.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA27397 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37AEDE17.9CD5CADE@pratt.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 09:56:39 -0400 From: Nancy Haycock X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: ecoli bacteria Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2087 Hi. Hoping someone can help me. I am in contract to purchase a farm and I just had the water tested. Coliform 23+ and ecoli 5.1. The farm is fed by two springs (no well) and one spring exclusively feeds the field and the other goes into the house (and so a UV bulb wouldn't help). I will be growing organic vegetables and I know NOFA tests for potability. What I urgently need to know is how bad is 5.1? And is there any cheap solution to this problem? THANKS. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 11:14:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA11724 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25781 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:27:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25726 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA06155 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.26] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ga034326 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:23:49 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01bee272$fa02f700$1a9fc2d1@jvworstell> From: "Jim Worstell" To: "Paul Schmitmeyer" , "Sanet" References: <004701bee260$c4307380$817a5acf@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Future Generations of Family Farmers Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:23:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2088 Paul et al., You have one good point: most farmers like to farm, not worry about markets. And that's exactly why Barbara is right. The only type of government program which will help small and moderate sized family farms is some sort of supply management based on allotments attached to the land. In such programs, supply is managed so that farmers get a fair return, farmers don't have much worry about selling their crops, etc. and the taxpayers only have minor adminstrative costs The train wreck of present farm policy is resulting in a bipartisan $7-10 billion giveaway this year after a record $6.4 billion giveaway last year. But the ag economists are so wedded to their faulty assumptions that they can't even see the cost of those assumptions, much less their effect on family farms and rural communities. The few supply management programs left in the U.S. are the only ones which have resulted in prosperous family farms and rural communities. Jim Worstell www.deltanetwork.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer To: Sanet Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:14 AM Subject: Fw: Future Generations of Family Farmers > Hi all, > First off, you offer some very good points! There are some areas I would > like to offer my view points on. I have had some first hand experience in > direct sales, that is farmers to consumers. The problem is most farmers are > not good direct marketers. They aren't good at it and DON'T want to do it. > It's not part of their farming plan. Not to say you arn't right, it's just > that most people won't do it. > A note on dairying program like the one in Canada, most of them are not > happy at all with their program. They DO give up a lot of their freedom to > do what they do. > Go with God, > Smitty > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barbara R Buchmayer > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 7:36 PM > Subject: Future Generations of Family Farmers > > > >Dear Marian > > > >My view of where future farmers will come from is quite different from > >Ann Clark's. > > > >My husband and I have farmed for about 20 years, never quite conventional > >farmers more like lunatic fringe. We have known a lot of conventional > >family farmers and have seen some of them evolve into sustainable or > >organic farmers. We have also known and been friends with the "new > >"farmers, those that have chosen to farm but were not really raised on a > >farm or even in a rural area. In fact my husband is from a century farm > >and I was raised in the 5 acre suburbs, but I always knew I was to be a > >farmer. > > > >We have recently started bottling our organic milk and selling it in a > >metropolitan area. So after 20 years we have moved from intensive > >grazing on our dairy to not only being graziers but being organic and > >adding value as well. > > > >I believe the future family farmers will be four major groups, depending > >on how you define "family farmers". These groups being: traditional > >farmers that have evolved into direct marketers or value-adders or both; > >"new" farmers that are innovative but not terribly tied to the land; > >contract growers that really are surfs on their own farms for some large > >corporation; and large conventional farmers. > > > > 1) The strongest or toughest of these will be the farmers that > >have evolved or young farmers with traditional backgrounds that are > >drawn to sustainable farming as the only alternative they and the land > >can live with. These are the people who are committed to farming and > >will work their butts off because they can see no other meaningful use > >for their lives that can provide comparable satisfaction. These people > >know how to work and we are talking 80 hours a week as being nothing > >unusual. Some will evolve because they realize it is the right direction > >for them and others will be forced by finances to change or get out. > > > > 2) The "new" farmers will be around, from my experience about 5 > >years before they realize they don't have the skills, money, commitment > >or whatever it does take to hang in there. They will add much depth and > >bring a lot of diversity to the farming community but in the end they > >really aren't committed to the land and will move on to greener pastures > >in other career areas. These are the ones that want to farm, have a lot > >to offer the ag community but really don't want to sacrifice too much. > > > > 3) The contract growers will survive on their farms but most of > >their freedom will have been taken from them in exchange for security. I > >don't have a clue how large this group will be but I doubt there will be > >very many "happy campers" among them. > > > > 4) Large conventional farmers will still be around. There seems > >to be no limit in size for these guys and yet they truly are family owned > >and managed farms. How many dairy cows can one farmer deal with? Ten , > >twenty or maybe even thirty thousand. Its not for me but they are > >expanding every day with the only limits in sight being laws governing > >total numbers of animals per acre and "safe" manure disposal. > > > >Sadly, I don't see a lot of farmers able or willing to be direct > >marketers or value-adders or a lot of "new" farmers with the resources > >and desire to make a go of it. I would like to see lots of sustainable > >and organic farmers for the good of the land and future generations. > > > >I think if we really want to have lots of family farmers we would have to > >impose some type of quota system guaranteeing good prices for specific > >amounts of commodity with any overage selling at much lower market > >prices. Something similar to the dairy quotas in Canada with all the > >pros and cons inherent to a quota system. It boils down to: Are we > >willing to trade our freedom and independence for security? > > > >How far are we willing to go to preserve the family farm? > > > >Barb Buchmayer > >Green Hills Harvest > >organic-harvest@juno.com > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________ > >Get the Internet just the way you want it. > >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 11:43:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12283 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13977 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:54:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13907 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:58:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Jobs (2) at Berea College, KY Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:58:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2089 Two job listings below. (Please use contact information listed for each one). Leadership in Sustainable Agriculture Position Announcement Agricultural Educator - Agricultural Economics The Berea College Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources seeks an agricultural educator who can provide leadership in integrating economics into a program of small-scale sustainable agriculture with emphasis on the Appalachian region. Applicants are sought with entrepreneurial bent and experience and skills in (a) adding value to basic agriculture products and (b) niche marketing in a small-farm context. Understanding of the economic, social, and environmental implications of food and fiber production is also sought. Commitment to the purposes of the College and to teaching excellence in an undergraduate liberal arts environment is essential. Teaching responsibilities include introductory courses in agricultural economics and marketing as well as a senior course in farm resource management; other courses contingent on individual background and interests. Preference will be given to applicants with additional applied expertise in some area of agriculture or natural resources. Responsibilities also include integration of student work and learning through supervision of student-worker involvement in marketing, economic planning, and sustainable resource management on the College farms and or forests. Ph.D. preferred, Masters required; salary and rank commensurate with experience. Duties begin September, 2000. Berea College is a four-year institution devoted to undergraduate education rooted in the liberal arts. The College's mission includes special commitments to students of limited economic means and high ability, the Appalachian region, interracial and intercultural education, and the development of perspectives and values deeply informed by the Christian faith. A full tuition scholarship for each student and a work program in which all students participate have long been distinctive features of a Berea education. Though many students are the first in their families to attend college, Berea ranks among the leading colleges in the South in percentage of graduates who earn Ph.D. degrees. The College is located 30 miles south of Lexington, Kentucky in the town of Berea (pop. 10,000). The Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources manages diversified crop and livestock operations on 1200 acres of College farms for classroom and student labor use and has access to 8000 acres of College forest and watershed land. Applicants should send a letter of application, curriculum vitae, transcripts and three letters of recommendation to: Mike Panciera, Acting Chair, Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources, CPO 2356, Berea College, Berea, KY 40404. Review of applicants will begin October 15, 1999 until filled. In keeping with the College's inclusive Christian tradition and its emphasis on the dignity and worth of all people, Berea embraces and values diversity through encouragement of applications from women and members of minority groups. Leadership in Sustainable Agriculture Position Announcement Agricultural Educator - Animal Science The Berea College Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources seeks an animal scientist to provide leadership in integrating livestock and wildlife into a program of small-scale sustainable agriculture in the Appalachian region. Applicants are sought who have expertise in livestock production combined with (a) strong interest in the role of livestock in the development and holistic management of local, small-scale food production systems and (b) understanding of the economic, social, and environmental implications of animal production. Commitment to the purposes of the College and to teaching excellence in an undergraduate liberal arts environment is essential. Teaching responsibilities include undergraduate courses involving aspects of livestock production systems; other courses contingent on individual background and interests. Preference will be given to applicants with applied expertise in some area of animal production and management systems, such as; swine, silvo-pastoral, wildlife, aquaculture, or livestock marketing in a small-farm context. Responsibilities also include integration of student work and learning through the supervision of student-worker involvement in livestock production and sustainable resource management on the College farms and/or forests. Ph.D. or equivalent expected; salary and rank commensurate with experience. Duties begin September, 2000. Berea College is a four-year institution devoted to undergraduate education rooted in the liberal arts. The College's mission includes special commitments to students of limited economic means and high ability, the Appalachian region, interracial and intercultural education, and the development of perspectives and values deeply informed by the Christian faith. A full tuition scholarship for each student and a work program in which all students participate have long been distinctive features of a Berea education. Though many students are the first in their families to attend college, Berea ranks among the leading colleges in the South in percentage of graduates who earn Ph.D. degrees. The College is located 30 miles south of Lexington, Kentucky in the town of Berea (pop. 10,000). The Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources manages diversified crop and livestock operations on 1200 acres of College farms for classroom and student labor use and has access to 8000 acres of College forest and watershed land. Applicants should send a letter of application, curriculum vitae, transcripts and three letters of recommendation to: Mike Panciera, Acting Chair, Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources, CPO 2356, Berea College, Berea, KY 40404. Review of applicants will begin November 1, 1999 until filled. In keeping with the College's inclusive Christian tradition and its emphasis on the dignity and worth of all people, Berea embraces and values diversity through encouragement of applications from women and members of minority groups. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 11:46:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12334 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA17327 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:04:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17319 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07046 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3Z7HJVSJ>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:58:22 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: Paul Schmitmeyer , Sanet , "'Jim Worstell'" Subject: RE: Future Generations of Family Farmers Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:58:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2090 jim, could you say a little bit more about the "few supply management programs left in the U.S." . . . perhaps a list or some brief description thanks, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Jim Worstell[SMTP:jvworstell@futura.net] > Sent: Monday 9 August 1999 10:23 AM > To: Paul Schmitmeyer; Sanet > Subject: Re: Future Generations of Family Farmers > > Paul et al., > > You have one good point: most farmers like to farm, not worry about > markets. > And that's exactly why Barbara is right. The only type of government > program which will help small and moderate sized family farms is some sort > of supply management based on allotments attached to the land. In such > programs, supply is managed so that farmers get a fair return, farmers > don't > have much worry about selling their crops, etc. and the taxpayers only > have > minor adminstrative costs > > The train wreck of present farm policy is resulting in a bipartisan $7-10 > billion giveaway this year after a record $6.4 billion giveaway last > year. > But the ag economists are so wedded to their faulty assumptions that they > can't even see the cost of those assumptions, much less their effect on > family farms and rural communities. > > The few supply management programs left in the U.S. are the only ones > which > have resulted in prosperous family farms and rural communities. > > Jim Worstell > www.deltanetwork.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Schmitmeyer > To: Sanet > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:14 AM > Subject: Fw: Future Generations of Family Farmers > > > > Hi all, > > First off, you offer some very good points! There are some areas I > would > > like to offer my view points on. I have had some first hand experience > in > > direct sales, that is farmers to consumers. The problem is most farmers > are > > not good direct marketers. They aren't good at it and DON'T want to do > it. > > It's not part of their farming plan. Not to say you arn't right, it's > just > > that most people won't do it. > > A note on dairying program like the one in Canada, most of them are > not > > happy at all with their program. They DO give up a lot of their freedom > to > > do what they do. > > Go with God, > > Smitty > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Barbara R Buchmayer > > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > > Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 7:36 PM > > Subject: Future Generations of Family Farmers > > > > > > >Dear Marian > > > > > >My view of where future farmers will come from is quite different > from > > >Ann Clark's. > > > > > >My husband and I have farmed for about 20 years, never quite > conventional > > >farmers more like lunatic fringe. We have known a lot of conventional > > >family farmers and have seen some of them evolve into sustainable or > > >organic farmers. We have also known and been friends with the "new > > >"farmers, those that have chosen to farm but were not really raised on > a > > >farm or even in a rural area. In fact my husband is from a century > farm > > >and I was raised in the 5 acre suburbs, but I always knew I was to be a > > >farmer. > > > > > >We have recently started bottling our organic milk and selling it in a > > >metropolitan area. So after 20 years we have moved from intensive > > >grazing on our dairy to not only being graziers but being organic and > > >adding value as well. > > > > > >I believe the future family farmers will be four major groups, > depending > > >on how you define "family farmers". These groups being: traditional > > >farmers that have evolved into direct marketers or value-adders or > both; > > >"new" farmers that are innovative but not terribly tied to the land; > > >contract growers that really are surfs on their own farms for some > large > > >corporation; and large conventional farmers. > > > > > > 1) The strongest or toughest of these will be the farmers that > > >have evolved or young farmers with traditional backgrounds that are > > >drawn to sustainable farming as the only alternative they and the land > > >can live with. These are the people who are committed to farming and > > >will work their butts off because they can see no other meaningful use > > >for their lives that can provide comparable satisfaction. These > people > > >know how to work and we are talking 80 hours a week as being nothing > > >unusual. Some will evolve because they realize it is the right > direction > > >for them and others will be forced by finances to change or get out. > > > > > > 2) The "new" farmers will be around, from my experience about 5 > > >years before they realize they don't have the skills, money, commitment > > >or whatever it does take to hang in there. They will add much depth > and > > >bring a lot of diversity to the farming community but in the end they > > >really aren't committed to the land and will move on to greener > pastures > > >in other career areas. These are the ones that want to farm, have a > lot > > >to offer the ag community but really don't want to sacrifice too much. > > > > > > 3) The contract growers will survive on their farms but most of > > >their freedom will have been taken from them in exchange for security. > I > > >don't have a clue how large this group will be but I doubt there will > be > > >very many "happy campers" among them. > > > > > > 4) Large conventional farmers will still be around. There seems > > >to be no limit in size for these guys and yet they truly are family > owned > > >and managed farms. How many dairy cows can one farmer deal with? Ten > , > > >twenty or maybe even thirty thousand. Its not for me but they are > > >expanding every day with the only limits in sight being laws governing > > >total numbers of animals per acre and "safe" manure disposal. > > > > > >Sadly, I don't see a lot of farmers able or willing to be direct > > >marketers or value-adders or a lot of "new" farmers with the resources > > >and desire to make a go of it. I would like to see lots of sustainable > > >and organic farmers for the good of the land and future generations. > > > > > >I think if we really want to have lots of family farmers we would have > to > > >impose some type of quota system guaranteeing good prices for specific > > >amounts of commodity with any overage selling at much lower market > > >prices. Something similar to the dairy quotas in Canada with all the > > >pros and cons inherent to a quota system. It boils down to: Are we > > >willing to trade our freedom and independence for security? > > > > > >How far are we willing to go to preserve the family farm? > > > > > >Barb Buchmayer > > >Green Hills Harvest > > >organic-harvest@juno.com > > > > > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________ > > >Get the Internet just the way you want it. > > >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > > >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 12:11:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA12863 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29422 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:26:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29366 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.190] (st-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.190]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA16181; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908091525.IAA16181@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 08:27:25 -0700 Subject: FW: Antioxidant Power of Natural Product Supplements Highly Variable From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA29375 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2091 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Antioxidant Power of Natural Product Supplements Highly Variable Date: Mon, Aug 9, 1999, 7:05 AM STORY LEAD: Antioxidant Power of Natural Product Supplements Highly Variable ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Judy McBride, (301) 504-1628, jmcbride@asrr.arsusda.gov August 9, 1999 ----------- Chances are you'll get more protection from eating fresh fruits and vegetables than from taking natural product supplements claiming to be potent antioxidants. That's according to analyses of 46 commercial preparations by researchers with the Agricultural Research Service, the chief scientific agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The total antioxidant capacity of 40 berry-based supplements ranged from 16 to 3985 ORAC units--a 249-fold difference. The supplements tested included bilberry, cranberry, chokeberry and elderberry extracts. Six other antioxidant products with grape seed or pine bark extracts or pycnogenol ranged from 16 to 8392 ORAC units--a 525-fold difference. ORAC--short for oxygen radical absorbance capacity--measures the ability of a chemical or biological sample to disarm oxygen free radicals, which can precipitate a cascade of oxidative damage in body cells. Theory holds that such damage is behind heart disease, cancer and other diseases of aging. So antioxidant supplements are gaining popularity. The results remind consumers that there are no industry standards for the antioxidant capacity of natural product supplements and thus little assurance of a high quality product, according to ARS chemists Ron Prior and Guohua Cao at the USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts in Boston, Mass. Prior and Cao report their findings in the summer issue of the Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association. An abstract of the article will appear on the Web at: http://www.americanutra.com The researchers point out that a single serving of fresh or freshly cooked fruits or vegetables supplies an average of 300 to 400 ORAC units. Many fruits and vegetables--such as berries, plums, oranges, leafy greens and beets--provide much higher antioxidant levels. By contrast 28 of the 40 berry extracts tested and one of the six other products wouldn't provide 300 ORAC units in a day's suggested intake. ---------- Scientific contacts: Ronald L. Prior, phone (617) 556-3311, or Guohua Cao, phone (617) 556-3141, USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University, Boston, Mass., fax (617) 556-3299, prior@hnrc.tufts.edu, cao_am@hnrc.tufts.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 12:25:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13073 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13111 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:47:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlserve.unl.edu (root@unlserve.unl.edu [129.93.1.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13054 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pmurray.unl.edu (ag-pmurray.unl.edu [129.93.224.80]) by unlserve.unl.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA23866 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:44:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:44:55 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990809104833.49b7d9a8@unlserve.unl.edu> X-Sender: pmurray@unlserve.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Pam Murray Subject: The Farmer's Wife Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2092 In case you missed it, PBS will rebroadcast the Frontline series "The Farmer's Wife" beginning Sunday, August 22. See http://www.pbs.org/whatson/1999/08/descriptions/FRON.html *********************** Pam Murray, Coordinator Center for Grassland Studies and Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems PO Box 830949 University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 phone: 402-472-9383 fax: 402-472-4104 e-mail: pmurray1@unl.edu http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/cgs http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 12:40:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13679 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19439 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19418 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:02:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: NY Times: "It's Raining Farm Subsidies" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:02:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2093 -----Original Message----- From: Fred Magdoff [mailto:fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 9:15 PM To: Andy Clark Subject: please post Andy, There is an interesting article in Sunday's NY Times that I thought sanet-mg folks might be interested in. FRED August 8, 1999 It's Raining Farm Subsidies By TIM WEINER WASHINGTON -- CITY slickers may think there was some connection between the withered cornstalks they saw on the nightly news last week and the Senate's passing a $7.4 billion "emergency" agricultural aid bill on Wednesday. In fact, there is a crisis in American farming, but it has little to do with this summer's drought, and a lot to do with Washington. Federal farm policy is creating bigger and bigger farms and fewer and fewer farmers, converting tens of billions of taxpayers' dollars into cattle fodder, creating big profits for the biggest agribusinesses and underwriting cheap hamburgers. But that policy is bringing precious little benefit -- and, some argue, great harm -- to small farmers trying to make a living, critics say. These critics include the conservative Senator Phil Gramm of Texas, the centrist National Farmers Union, which represents 300,000 farmers and ranchers, and the liberal Environmental Defense Fund. Though they marshal their arguments in different ways, they generally agree that a system begun back in the Depression to help farmers survive is now "planting a seed that is going to destroy American agriculture as we know it," as Gramm said last week. The Government will plow close to $24 billion into agriculture this year, assuming the Senate bill becomes law. That Federal money will account for nearly half of all farm income, Agriculture Department figures show. No other American business receives this kind of subsidy. Very little Federal largesse goes to small farmers growing food. Most of it goes to the increasingly industrialized production of a few basic commodities like wheat, soybeans and corn -- not the sweet corn of summer, but the corn that animals eat. One-third of the wheat, three-quarters of the corn and almost all the soybeans are used for feed, not food. And much of the market for those commodities is controlled by corporations like Cargill, the nation's largest privately held company, and Archer-Daniels-Midland, the politically connected conglomerate recently fined $100 million for price-fixing. These two companies control 60 percent of the export market for American grain. "Agriculture policy does not protect the person you or I think of as a farmer," Tom Buis of the National Farmers Union said. "It benefits the largest operations and the processors. And the processors want cheap grain. There are a lot of different interests in agriculture, and the farmers are the least powerful." The number of small farmers -- those with annual gross incomes below $250,000 -- has declined by 75 percent since the 1960's. With tiny profit margins, farmers must have bigger farms, pricier machines, more fertilizers, fence-to-fence plantings. Yet this often gets them nowhere. Midwestern corn farmers' gross earnings per acre are about the same as they were in 1950, though their yields have doubled, Agriculture Department figures show. Forced to adapt or die, fewer farmers are running bigger and bigger operations. Hog barns and chicken coops become huge meat factories; these economies of scale affect farming and ranching everywhere. Farmland is concentrated in fewer and fewer hands: Five percent of the landowners now own 50 percent of all farmland. And just as no other industry gets the kind of Federal subsidy that agriculture does, no other industry suffers from overproduction on the same scale. One big reason that prices are plummeting is that farmers are growing too much. There is no market for half this fall's wheat crop-- close to a billion bushels, growers say. F EDERAL farm law iscontributing to that oversupply, the critics say. The law was revised by the Republican Congress in 1996 to remove the set-aside subsidy, which paid farmers to let part of their fields lie fallow. The old law had many critics, but thechange "accelerated this trend of overproduction," said Buis. "It encouraged more production without any measures to control supply." Tim Searchinger, a senior attorney at the EnvironmentalDefense Fund in Washington, said: "The subsidies mean that farmers produce toomany basic crops, taxpayers pay them for the excess, and farmers keep doing it. They mean millions more acres of corn and wheat fields, more tons of fertilizer and pesticides." Before the Senate's new bill, the Agriculture Department forecast farm income declining very slightly this year, from $44.1 billion last year to $43.8 billion. Congress, by passing a bill of that size, would push the figure up above $50 billion -- with $24 billion coming from the Treasury. The same forecast shows the total value of farm assets rising and farm debt declining this year. The new farm law was supposed to let the market rule. To an extent, it has. The agribusiness giants like overproduction because it keeps prices down. But Congress pumps more and more money into the system -- including a $6 billion "emergency" package last October along with the $7.4 billion offered by the Senate -- and the total payout has been greater than or equal to what would have been paid under the old law, according to Agriculture Department figures cited by Searchinger. "We are paying so much money that we are actually encouraging more production rather than compensating people partially for their losses," Senator Gramm said. "We are going to end up exacerbating oversupply and driving prices further and further down." There is a farm crisis, but it seems to be that the market, supported by the Government, is forcing America's small farmers to get big or get out. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 13:10:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14150 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07375 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:27:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07369 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08662 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 179; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:30:30 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990809112858.00b9da90@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 11:28:58 -0500 To: "Harris, Craig" , Paul Schmitmeyer , Sanet , "'Jim Worstell'" From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: RE: Future Generations of Family Farmers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2094 peanuts sugar some marketing orders tobacco a few dairy coops I think At 10:58 AM 8/9/99 -0400, Harris, Craig wrote: >jim, >could you say a little bit more about the "few supply management programs >left in the U.S." . . . perhaps a list or some brief description >thanks, >craig > >craig k harris >department of sociology >michigan state university >429b berkey hall >east lansing michigan 48824-1111 >tel: 517-355-5048 >fax: 517-432-2856 > > >> ---------- >> From: Jim Worstell[SMTP:jvworstell@futura.net] >> Sent: Monday 9 August 1999 10:23 AM >> To: Paul Schmitmeyer; Sanet >> Subject: Re: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> >> Paul et al., >> >> You have one good point: most farmers like to farm, not worry about >> markets. >> And that's exactly why Barbara is right. The only type of government >> program which will help small and moderate sized family farms is some sort >> of supply management based on allotments attached to the land. In such >> programs, supply is managed so that farmers get a fair return, farmers >> don't >> have much worry about selling their crops, etc. and the taxpayers only >> have >> minor adminstrative costs >> >> The train wreck of present farm policy is resulting in a bipartisan $7-10 >> billion giveaway this year after a record $6.4 billion giveaway last >> year. >> But the ag economists are so wedded to their faulty assumptions that they >> can't even see the cost of those assumptions, much less their effect on >> family farms and rural communities. >> >> The few supply management programs left in the U.S. are the only ones >> which >> have resulted in prosperous family farms and rural communities. >> >> Jim Worstell >> www.deltanetwork.org >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Schmitmeyer >> To: Sanet >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:14 AM >> Subject: Fw: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> >> >> > Hi all, >> > First off, you offer some very good points! There are some areas I >> would >> > like to offer my view points on. I have had some first hand experience >> in >> > direct sales, that is farmers to consumers. The problem is most farmers >> are >> > not good direct marketers. They aren't good at it and DON'T want to do >> it. >> > It's not part of their farming plan. Not to say you arn't right, it's >> just >> > that most people won't do it. >> > A note on dairying program like the one in Canada, most of them are >> not >> > happy at all with their program. They DO give up a lot of their freedom >> to >> > do what they do. >> > Go with God, >> > Smitty >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Barbara R Buchmayer >> > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >> > Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 7:36 PM >> > Subject: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> > >> > >> > >Dear Marian >> > > >> > >My view of where future farmers will come from is quite different >> from >> > >Ann Clark's. >> > > >> > >My husband and I have farmed for about 20 years, never quite >> conventional >> > >farmers more like lunatic fringe. We have known a lot of conventional >> > >family farmers and have seen some of them evolve into sustainable or >> > >organic farmers. We have also known and been friends with the "new >> > >"farmers, those that have chosen to farm but were not really raised on >> a >> > >farm or even in a rural area. In fact my husband is from a century >> farm >> > >and I was raised in the 5 acre suburbs, but I always knew I was to be a >> > >farmer. >> > > >> > >We have recently started bottling our organic milk and selling it in a >> > >metropolitan area. So after 20 years we have moved from intensive >> > >grazing on our dairy to not only being graziers but being organic and >> > >adding value as well. >> > > >> > >I believe the future family farmers will be four major groups, >> depending >> > >on how you define "family farmers". These groups being: traditional >> > >farmers that have evolved into direct marketers or value-adders or >> both; >> > >"new" farmers that are innovative but not terribly tied to the land; >> > >contract growers that really are surfs on their own farms for some >> large >> > >corporation; and large conventional farmers. >> > > >> > > 1) The strongest or toughest of these will be the farmers that >> > >have evolved or young farmers with traditional backgrounds that are >> > >drawn to sustainable farming as the only alternative they and the land >> > >can live with. These are the people who are committed to farming and >> > >will work their butts off because they can see no other meaningful use >> > >for their lives that can provide comparable satisfaction. These >> people >> > >know how to work and we are talking 80 hours a week as being nothing >> > >unusual. Some will evolve because they realize it is the right >> direction >> > >for them and others will be forced by finances to change or get out. >> > > >> > > 2) The "new" farmers will be around, from my experience about 5 >> > >years before they realize they don't have the skills, money, commitment >> > >or whatever it does take to hang in there. They will add much depth >> and >> > >bring a lot of diversity to the farming community but in the end they >> > >really aren't committed to the land and will move on to greener >> pastures >> > >in other career areas. These are the ones that want to farm, have a >> lot >> > >to offer the ag community but really don't want to sacrifice too much. >> > > >> > > 3) The contract growers will survive on their farms but most of >> > >their freedom will have been taken from them in exchange for security. >> I >> > >don't have a clue how large this group will be but I doubt there will >> be >> > >very many "happy campers" among them. >> > > >> > > 4) Large conventional farmers will still be around. There seems >> > >to be no limit in size for these guys and yet they truly are family >> owned >> > >and managed farms. How many dairy cows can one farmer deal with? Ten >> , >> > >twenty or maybe even thirty thousand. Its not for me but they are >> > >expanding every day with the only limits in sight being laws governing >> > >total numbers of animals per acre and "safe" manure disposal. >> > > >> > >Sadly, I don't see a lot of farmers able or willing to be direct >> > >marketers or value-adders or a lot of "new" farmers with the resources >> > >and desire to make a go of it. I would like to see lots of sustainable >> > >and organic farmers for the good of the land and future generations. >> > > >> > >I think if we really want to have lots of family farmers we would have >> to >> > >impose some type of quota system guaranteeing good prices for specific >> > >amounts of commodity with any overage selling at much lower market >> > >prices. Something similar to the dairy quotas in Canada with all the >> > >pros and cons inherent to a quota system. It boils down to: Are we >> > >willing to trade our freedom and independence for security? >> > > >> > >How far are we willing to go to preserve the family farm? >> > > >> > >Barb Buchmayer >> > >Green Hills Harvest >> > >organic-harvest@juno.com >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >> > >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >> > >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >> > >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. >> > > >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> command >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > > >> > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > > >> > >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 13:34:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA14934 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:44:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17631 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08946 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:44:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <3Z7HJV75>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:38:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "Harris, Craig" , Paul Schmitmeyer , Sanet , "'Jim Worstell'" , "'Mark Ritchie'" Subject: RE: Future Generations of Family Farmers Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:38:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2095 mark, thanks for the list > peanuts -- do you know what is the mechanism here > sugar -- is this just quotas on imports, or is there more > some marketing orders -- tart cherries is one; do you know if there are > others > tobacco -- is this still the allotment program, or something else > a few dairy coops I think -- are these marketing orders, or coop rules cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Mark Ritchie[SMTP:mritchie@iatp.org] > Sent: Monday 9 August 1999 12:28 PM > To: Harris, Craig; Paul Schmitmeyer; Sanet; 'Jim Worstell' > Subject: RE: Future Generations of Family Farmers > > peanuts > sugar > some marketing orders > tobacco > a few dairy coops I think > > > > > At 10:58 AM 8/9/99 -0400, Harris, Craig wrote: > >jim, > >could you say a little bit more about the "few supply management programs > >left in the U.S." . . . perhaps a list or some brief description > >thanks, > >craig > > > >craig k harris > >department of sociology > >michigan state university > >429b berkey hall > >east lansing michigan 48824-1111 > >tel: 517-355-5048 > >fax: 517-432-2856 > > > > > >> ---------- > >> From: Jim Worstell[SMTP:jvworstell@futura.net] > >> Sent: Monday 9 August 1999 10:23 AM > >> To: Paul Schmitmeyer; Sanet > >> Subject: Re: Future Generations of Family Farmers > >> > >> Paul et al., > >> > >> You have one good point: most farmers like to farm, not worry about > >> markets. > >> And that's exactly why Barbara is right. The only type of government > >> program which will help small and moderate sized family farms is some > sort > >> of supply management based on allotments attached to the land. In > such > >> programs, supply is managed so that farmers get a fair return, farmers > >> don't > >> have much worry about selling their crops, etc. and the taxpayers only > >> have > >> minor adminstrative costs > >> > >> The train wreck of present farm policy is resulting in a bipartisan > $7-10 > >> billion giveaway this year after a record $6.4 billion giveaway last > >> year. > >> But the ag economists are so wedded to their faulty assumptions that > they > >> can't even see the cost of those assumptions, much less their effect on > >> family farms and rural communities. > >> > >> The few supply management programs left in the U.S. are the only ones > >> which > >> have resulted in prosperous family farms and rural communities. > >> > >> Jim Worstell > >> www.deltanetwork.org > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Paul Schmitmeyer > >> To: Sanet > >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:14 AM > >> Subject: Fw: Future Generations of Family Farmers > >> > >> > >> > Hi all, > >> > First off, you offer some very good points! There are some areas > I > >> would > >> > like to offer my view points on. I have had some first hand > experience > >> in > >> > direct sales, that is farmers to consumers. The problem is most > farmers > >> are > >> > not good direct marketers. They aren't good at it and DON'T want to > do > >> it. > >> > It's not part of their farming plan. Not to say you arn't right, it's > >> just > >> > that most people won't do it. > >> > A note on dairying program like the one in Canada, most of them > are > >> not > >> > happy at all with their program. They DO give up a lot of their > freedom > >> to > >> > do what they do. > >> > Go with God, > >> > Smitty > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Barbara R Buchmayer > >> > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > >> > Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 7:36 PM > >> > Subject: Future Generations of Family Farmers > >> > > >> > > >> > >Dear Marian > >> > > > >> > >My view of where future farmers will come from is quite different > >> from > >> > >Ann Clark's. > >> > > > >> > >My husband and I have farmed for about 20 years, never quite > >> conventional > >> > >farmers more like lunatic fringe. We have known a lot of > conventional > >> > >family farmers and have seen some of them evolve into sustainable or > >> > >organic farmers. We have also known and been friends with the "new > >> > >"farmers, those that have chosen to farm but were not really raised > on > >> a > >> > >farm or even in a rural area. In fact my husband is from a century > >> farm > >> > >and I was raised in the 5 acre suburbs, but I always knew I was to > be a > >> > >farmer. > >> > > > >> > >We have recently started bottling our organic milk and selling it in > a > >> > >metropolitan area. So after 20 years we have moved from intensive > >> > >grazing on our dairy to not only being graziers but being organic > and > >> > >adding value as well. > >> > > > >> > >I believe the future family farmers will be four major groups, > >> depending > >> > >on how you define "family farmers". These groups being: > traditional > >> > >farmers that have evolved into direct marketers or value-adders or > >> both; > >> > >"new" farmers that are innovative but not terribly tied to the land; > >> > >contract growers that really are surfs on their own farms for some > >> large > >> > >corporation; and large conventional farmers. > >> > > > >> > > 1) The strongest or toughest of these will be the farmers that > >> > >have evolved or young farmers with traditional backgrounds that are > >> > >drawn to sustainable farming as the only alternative they and the > land > >> > >can live with. These are the people who are committed to farming > and > >> > >will work their butts off because they can see no other meaningful > use > >> > >for their lives that can provide comparable satisfaction. These > >> people > >> > >know how to work and we are talking 80 hours a week as being nothing > >> > >unusual. Some will evolve because they realize it is the right > >> direction > >> > >for them and others will be forced by finances to change or get out. > >> > > > >> > > 2) The "new" farmers will be around, from my experience about 5 > >> > >years before they realize they don't have the skills, money, > commitment > >> > >or whatever it does take to hang in there. They will add much depth > >> and > >> > >bring a lot of diversity to the farming community but in the end > they > >> > >really aren't committed to the land and will move on to greener > >> pastures > >> > >in other career areas. These are the ones that want to farm, have a > >> lot > >> > >to offer the ag community but really don't want to sacrifice too > much. > >> > > > >> > > 3) The contract growers will survive on their farms but most of > >> > >their freedom will have been taken from them in exchange for > security. > >> I > >> > >don't have a clue how large this group will be but I doubt there > will > >> be > >> > >very many "happy campers" among them. > >> > > > >> > > 4) Large conventional farmers will still be around. There seems > >> > >to be no limit in size for these guys and yet they truly are family > >> owned > >> > >and managed farms. How many dairy cows can one farmer deal with? > Ten > >> , > >> > >twenty or maybe even thirty thousand. Its not for me but they are > >> > >expanding every day with the only limits in sight being laws > governing > >> > >total numbers of animals per acre and "safe" manure disposal. > >> > > > >> > >Sadly, I don't see a lot of farmers able or willing to be direct > >> > >marketers or value-adders or a lot of "new" farmers with the > resources > >> > >and desire to make a go of it. I would like to see lots of > sustainable > >> > >and organic farmers for the good of the land and future generations. > >> > > > >> > >I think if we really want to have lots of family farmers we would > have > >> to > >> > >impose some type of quota system guaranteeing good prices for > specific > >> > >amounts of commodity with any overage selling at much lower market > >> > >prices. Something similar to the dairy quotas in Canada with all > the > >> > >pros and cons inherent to a quota system. It boils down to: Are we > >> > >willing to trade our freedom and independence for security? > >> > > > >> > >How far are we willing to go to preserve the family farm? > >> > > > >> > >Barb Buchmayer > >> > >Green Hills Harvest > >> > >organic-harvest@juno.com > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >___________________________________________________________________ > >> > >Get the Internet just the way you want it. > >> > >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > >> > >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >> > > > >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > >> command > >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the > command > >> > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > > > >> > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >> > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > >> command > >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > > >> > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >> > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >> > >> > >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >> > >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >> > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the > command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > Mark Ritchie, President > Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy > 2105 First Ave. South > Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA > 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) > mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 13:50:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15501 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21272 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:52:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21225 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09114 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA27105; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:51:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Mark Ritchie" , "Harris, Craig" , "Paul Schmitmeyer" , "Sanet" , "'Jim Worstell'" Subject: RE: Future Generations of Family Farmers Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:42:14 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990809112858.00b9da90@iatp.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA21231 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2096 One of the interesting things about some of the "Appelation d'Origine Controllee" (name of origin controlled) cheeses in France is that the farmers voluntarily mandate to themselves a production control system in order to keep supply in line with demand, actually to limit supply in order to maintain a high priced niche. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Mark Ritchie Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:29 PM To: Harris, Craig; Paul Schmitmeyer; Sanet; 'Jim Worstell' Subject: RE: Future Generations of Family Farmers peanuts sugar some marketing orders tobacco a few dairy coops I think At 10:58 AM 8/9/99 -0400, Harris, Craig wrote: >jim, >could you say a little bit more about the "few supply management programs >left in the U.S." . . . perhaps a list or some brief description >thanks, >craig > >craig k harris >department of sociology >michigan state university >429b berkey hall >east lansing michigan 48824-1111 >tel: 517-355-5048 >fax: 517-432-2856 > > >> ---------- >> From: Jim Worstell[SMTP:jvworstell@futura.net] >> Sent: Monday 9 August 1999 10:23 AM >> To: Paul Schmitmeyer; Sanet >> Subject: Re: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> >> Paul et al., >> >> You have one good point: most farmers like to farm, not worry about >> markets. >> And that's exactly why Barbara is right. The only type of government >> program which will help small and moderate sized family farms is some sort >> of supply management based on allotments attached to the land. In such >> programs, supply is managed so that farmers get a fair return, farmers >> don't >> have much worry about selling their crops, etc. and the taxpayers only >> have >> minor adminstrative costs >> >> The train wreck of present farm policy is resulting in a bipartisan $7-10 >> billion giveaway this year after a record $6.4 billion giveaway last >> year. >> But the ag economists are so wedded to their faulty assumptions that they >> can't even see the cost of those assumptions, much less their effect on >> family farms and rural communities. >> >> The few supply management programs left in the U.S. are the only ones >> which >> have resulted in prosperous family farms and rural communities. >> >> Jim Worstell >> www.deltanetwork.org >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Paul Schmitmeyer >> To: Sanet >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:14 AM >> Subject: Fw: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> >> >> > Hi all, >> > First off, you offer some very good points! There are some areas I >> would >> > like to offer my view points on. I have had some first hand experience >> in >> > direct sales, that is farmers to consumers. The problem is most farmers >> are >> > not good direct marketers. They aren't good at it and DON'T want to do >> it. >> > It's not part of their farming plan. Not to say you arn't right, it's >> just >> > that most people won't do it. >> > A note on dairying program like the one in Canada, most of them are >> not >> > happy at all with their program. They DO give up a lot of their freedom >> to >> > do what they do. >> > Go with God, >> > Smitty >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Barbara R Buchmayer >> > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >> > Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 7:36 PM >> > Subject: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> > >> > >> > >Dear Marian >> > > >> > >My view of where future farmers will come from is quite different >> from >> > >Ann Clark's. >> > > >> > >My husband and I have farmed for about 20 years, never quite >> conventional >> > >farmers more like lunatic fringe. We have known a lot of conventional >> > >family farmers and have seen some of them evolve into sustainable or >> > >organic farmers. We have also known and been friends with the "new >> > >"farmers, those that have chosen to farm but were not really raised on >> a >> > >farm or even in a rural area. In fact my husband is from a century >> farm >> > >and I was raised in the 5 acre suburbs, but I always knew I was to be a >> > >farmer. >> > > >> > >We have recently started bottling our organic milk and selling it in a >> > >metropolitan area. So after 20 years we have moved from intensive >> > >grazing on our dairy to not only being graziers but being organic and >> > >adding value as well. >> > > >> > >I believe the future family farmers will be four major groups, >> depending >> > >on how you define "family farmers". These groups being: traditional >> > >farmers that have evolved into direct marketers or value-adders or >> both; >> > >"new" farmers that are innovative but not terribly tied to the land; >> > >contract growers that really are surfs on their own farms for some >> large >> > >corporation; and large conventional farmers. >> > > >> > > 1) The strongest or toughest of these will be the farmers that >> > >have evolved or young farmers with traditional backgrounds that are >> > >drawn to sustainable farming as the only alternative they and the land >> > >can live with. These are the people who are committed to farming and >> > >will work their butts off because they can see no other meaningful use >> > >for their lives that can provide comparable satisfaction. These >> people >> > >know how to work and we are talking 80 hours a week as being nothing >> > >unusual. Some will evolve because they realize it is the right >> direction >> > >for them and others will be forced by finances to change or get out. >> > > >> > > 2) The "new" farmers will be around, from my experience about 5 >> > >years before they realize they don't have the skills, money, commitment >> > >or whatever it does take to hang in there. They will add much depth >> and >> > >bring a lot of diversity to the farming community but in the end they >> > >really aren't committed to the land and will move on to greener >> pastures >> > >in other career areas. These are the ones that want to farm, have a >> lot >> > >to offer the ag community but really don't want to sacrifice too much. >> > > >> > > 3) The contract growers will survive on their farms but most of >> > >their freedom will have been taken from them in exchange for security. >> I >> > >don't have a clue how large this group will be but I doubt there will >> be >> > >very many "happy campers" among them. >> > > >> > > 4) Large conventional farmers will still be around. There seems >> > >to be no limit in size for these guys and yet they truly are family >> owned >> > >and managed farms. How many dairy cows can one farmer deal with? Ten >> , >> > >twenty or maybe even thirty thousand. Its not for me but they are >> > >expanding every day with the only limits in sight being laws governing >> > >total numbers of animals per acre and "safe" manure disposal. >> > > >> > >Sadly, I don't see a lot of farmers able or willing to be direct >> > >marketers or value-adders or a lot of "new" farmers with the resources >> > >and desire to make a go of it. I would like to see lots of sustainable >> > >and organic farmers for the good of the land and future generations. >> > > >> > >I think if we really want to have lots of family farmers we would have >> to >> > >impose some type of quota system guaranteeing good prices for specific >> > >amounts of commodity with any overage selling at much lower market >> > >prices. Something similar to the dairy quotas in Canada with all the >> > >pros and cons inherent to a quota system. It boils down to: Are we >> > >willing to trade our freedom and independence for security? >> > > >> > >How far are we willing to go to preserve the family farm? >> > > >> > >Barb Buchmayer >> > >Green Hills Harvest >> > >organic-harvest@juno.com >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >> > >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >> > >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >> > >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. >> > > >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> command >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > > >> > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > > >> > >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 14:31:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA17078 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21320 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:43:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA21278 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990809173819.6248.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 10:38:19 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:38:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: today's wall street journal To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2097 on page a18 in the review and outlook section of the wall street journal is a scathing piece of writing entitled Greenwar. here is the last paragraph... "All of these things, plus the fact that biotech could be painted as a conspiracy of U.S. agribusiness, have worked against the industry in Europe. When the Iceland grocery chain decided to use genetically--modified foods as a wedge issue, it ran a picture of Bill Clinton with the tagline "The U.S. President doesn't care what you put in your mouth." One hesitates to speculate what Americans would have made of the slogan. The best lesson we could learn from Europe is the foolishness of allowing food technology and safety to become politicized merely for the benefit of fund-raising by the fringe." And in an earlier paragraph it reminds us that no one has sprouted wings as a result of the many years that Coke has been using high-fructose corn sweetener made from genetically modified corn. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 14:34:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA17123 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19236 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:38:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19231 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09990 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 274; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:41:59 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990809124027.00b89690@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:40:27 -0500 To: "Harris, Craig" , "Harris, Craig" , Paul Schmitmeyer , Sanet , "'Jim Worstell'" From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: RE: Future Generations of Family Farmers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2098 Sugar, peanuts, and tobacco are on allotments (and largely in coops, but not exclusively) There are quite a few marketing orders, we could get a list from USDA on the coops = I think it is local rules At 12:38 PM 8/9/99 -0400, Harris, Craig wrote: >mark, >thanks for the list >> peanuts -- do you know what is the mechanism here >> sugar -- is this just quotas on imports, or is there more >> some marketing orders -- tart cherries is one; do you know if there are >> others >> tobacco -- is this still the allotment program, or something else >> a few dairy coops I think -- are these marketing orders, or coop rules >cheers, >craig > >craig k harris >department of sociology >michigan state university >429b berkey hall >east lansing michigan 48824-1111 >tel: 517-355-5048 >fax: 517-432-2856 > > >> ---------- >> From: Mark Ritchie[SMTP:mritchie@iatp.org] >> Sent: Monday 9 August 1999 12:28 PM >> To: Harris, Craig; Paul Schmitmeyer; Sanet; 'Jim Worstell' >> Subject: RE: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> >> peanuts >> sugar >> some marketing orders >> tobacco >> a few dairy coops I think >> >> >> >> >> At 10:58 AM 8/9/99 -0400, Harris, Craig wrote: >> >jim, >> >could you say a little bit more about the "few supply management programs >> >left in the U.S." . . . perhaps a list or some brief description >> >thanks, >> >craig >> > >> >craig k harris >> >department of sociology >> >michigan state university >> >429b berkey hall >> >east lansing michigan 48824-1111 >> >tel: 517-355-5048 >> >fax: 517-432-2856 >> > >> > >> >> ---------- >> >> From: Jim Worstell[SMTP:jvworstell@futura.net] >> >> Sent: Monday 9 August 1999 10:23 AM >> >> To: Paul Schmitmeyer; Sanet >> >> Subject: Re: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> >> >> >> Paul et al., >> >> >> >> You have one good point: most farmers like to farm, not worry about >> >> markets. >> >> And that's exactly why Barbara is right. The only type of government >> >> program which will help small and moderate sized family farms is some >> sort >> >> of supply management based on allotments attached to the land. In >> such >> >> programs, supply is managed so that farmers get a fair return, farmers >> >> don't >> >> have much worry about selling their crops, etc. and the taxpayers only >> >> have >> >> minor adminstrative costs >> >> >> >> The train wreck of present farm policy is resulting in a bipartisan >> $7-10 >> >> billion giveaway this year after a record $6.4 billion giveaway last >> >> year. >> >> But the ag economists are so wedded to their faulty assumptions that >> they >> >> can't even see the cost of those assumptions, much less their effect on >> >> family farms and rural communities. >> >> >> >> The few supply management programs left in the U.S. are the only ones >> >> which >> >> have resulted in prosperous family farms and rural communities. >> >> >> >> Jim Worstell >> >> www.deltanetwork.org >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Paul Schmitmeyer >> >> To: Sanet >> >> Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:14 AM >> >> Subject: Fw: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi all, >> >> > First off, you offer some very good points! There are some areas >> I >> >> would >> >> > like to offer my view points on. I have had some first hand >> experience >> >> in >> >> > direct sales, that is farmers to consumers. The problem is most >> farmers >> >> are >> >> > not good direct marketers. They aren't good at it and DON'T want to >> do >> >> it. >> >> > It's not part of their farming plan. Not to say you arn't right, it's >> >> just >> >> > that most people won't do it. >> >> > A note on dairying program like the one in Canada, most of them >> are >> >> not >> >> > happy at all with their program. They DO give up a lot of their >> freedom >> >> to >> >> > do what they do. >> >> > Go with God, >> >> > Smitty >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: Barbara R Buchmayer >> >> > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >> >> > Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 7:36 PM >> >> > Subject: Future Generations of Family Farmers >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >Dear Marian >> >> > > >> >> > >My view of where future farmers will come from is quite different >> >> from >> >> > >Ann Clark's. >> >> > > >> >> > >My husband and I have farmed for about 20 years, never quite >> >> conventional >> >> > >farmers more like lunatic fringe. We have known a lot of >> conventional >> >> > >family farmers and have seen some of them evolve into sustainable or >> >> > >organic farmers. We have also known and been friends with the "new >> >> > >"farmers, those that have chosen to farm but were not really raised >> on >> >> a >> >> > >farm or even in a rural area. In fact my husband is from a century >> >> farm >> >> > >and I was raised in the 5 acre suburbs, but I always knew I was to >> be a >> >> > >farmer. >> >> > > >> >> > >We have recently started bottling our organic milk and selling it in >> a >> >> > >metropolitan area. So after 20 years we have moved from intensive >> >> > >grazing on our dairy to not only being graziers but being organic >> and >> >> > >adding value as well. >> >> > > >> >> > >I believe the future family farmers will be four major groups, >> >> depending >> >> > >on how you define "family farmers". These groups being: >> traditional >> >> > >farmers that have evolved into direct marketers or value-adders or >> >> both; >> >> > >"new" farmers that are innovative but not terribly tied to the land; >> >> > >contract growers that really are surfs on their own farms for some >> >> large >> >> > >corporation; and large conventional farmers. >> >> > > >> >> > > 1) The strongest or toughest of these will be the farmers that >> >> > >have evolved or young farmers with traditional backgrounds that are >> >> > >drawn to sustainable farming as the only alternative they and the >> land >> >> > >can live with. These are the people who are committed to farming >> and >> >> > >will work their butts off because they can see no other meaningful >> use >> >> > >for their lives that can provide comparable satisfaction. These >> >> people >> >> > >know how to work and we are talking 80 hours a week as being nothing >> >> > >unusual. Some will evolve because they realize it is the right >> >> direction >> >> > >for them and others will be forced by finances to change or get out. >> >> > > >> >> > > 2) The "new" farmers will be around, from my experience about 5 >> >> > >years before they realize they don't have the skills, money, >> commitment >> >> > >or whatever it does take to hang in there. They will add much depth >> >> and >> >> > >bring a lot of diversity to the farming community but in the end >> they >> >> > >really aren't committed to the land and will move on to greener >> >> pastures >> >> > >in other career areas. These are the ones that want to farm, have a >> >> lot >> >> > >to offer the ag community but really don't want to sacrifice too >> much. >> >> > > >> >> > > 3) The contract growers will survive on their farms but most of >> >> > >their freedom will have been taken from them in exchange for >> security. >> >> I >> >> > >don't have a clue how large this group will be but I doubt there >> will >> >> be >> >> > >very many "happy campers" among them. >> >> > > >> >> > > 4) Large conventional farmers will still be around. There seems >> >> > >to be no limit in size for these guys and yet they truly are family >> >> owned >> >> > >and managed farms. How many dairy cows can one farmer deal with? >> Ten >> >> , >> >> > >twenty or maybe even thirty thousand. Its not for me but they are >> >> > >expanding every day with the only limits in sight being laws >> governing >> >> > >total numbers of animals per acre and "safe" manure disposal. >> >> > > >> >> > >Sadly, I don't see a lot of farmers able or willing to be direct >> >> > >marketers or value-adders or a lot of "new" farmers with the >> resources >> >> > >and desire to make a go of it. I would like to see lots of >> sustainable >> >> > >and organic farmers for the good of the land and future generations. >> >> > > >> >> > >I think if we really want to have lots of family farmers we would >> have >> >> to >> >> > >impose some type of quota system guaranteeing good prices for >> specific >> >> > >amounts of commodity with any overage selling at much lower market >> >> > >prices. Something similar to the dairy quotas in Canada with all >> the >> >> > >pros and cons inherent to a quota system. It boils down to: Are we >> >> > >willing to trade our freedom and independence for security? >> >> > > >> >> > >How far are we willing to go to preserve the family farm? >> >> > > >> >> > >Barb Buchmayer >> >> > >Green Hills Harvest >> >> > >organic-harvest@juno.com >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >> >> > >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >> >> > >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >> >> > >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. >> >> > > >> >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> >> command >> >> > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the >> command >> >> > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> > > >> >> > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >> > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> >> command >> >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> > >> >> > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >> > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> command >> >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >> command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >> Mark Ritchie, President >> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy >> 2105 First Ave. South >> Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA >> 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) >> mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org >> > Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 15:50:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19468 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02311 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:54:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA02305 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:54:12 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 862567C8.00679B1E; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:51:39 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 862567C8.0067BCC8 ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:53:05 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu, pdpstco@unl.edu cc: jholley@tmn.com Message-ID: <862567C8.0067BC34.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:53:02 -0500 Subject: Call for marketing conference exhibitors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=LDAx6JjdzCEXzAFVfSAMgJ9LCvmP8olEr6yAvTRRVKpILbAZ07PVJ4QQ" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2099 --0__=LDAx6JjdzCEXzAFVfSAMgJ9LCvmP8olEr6yAvTRRVKpILbAZ07PVJ4QQ Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline CALL FOR EXHIBITORS Proposals due Sept. 1 North Central Region SARE ALTERNATIVE AGRICULTURAL MARKETING CONFERENCE November 19-20, 1999 University of Nebraska-Lincoln *Submit inquiries and applications to contact info in signature below.* This conference will help farmers and ranchers develop skills and supportive relationships that will allow them to create and sustain successful alternative marketing ventures. In addition, others promoting healthy food systems will share ideas about how to make direct connections between farm gates and dinner plates. The $75 conference fee includes exhibit sessions, workshops, panel discussions, keynote speakers and other activities that will probe a variety of direct marketing topics. Each conference participant will receive a marketing resources notebook and Neil Hamilton --0__=LDAx6JjdzCEXzAFVfSAMgJ9LCvmP8olEr6yAvTRRVKpILbAZ07PVJ4QQ Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ?s Legal Guide for Direct Farm Marketing. Poster/display sessions promise to provide opportunities to network wit= h farmers, educators, agricultural and environmental groups, food industr= y representatives, researchers and general consumers. Exhibit proposals a= re invited on topics relevant to alternative agricultural marketing, such = as small business planning, using the Internet to make sales, producer cooperati= ves, consumer education, community-supported agriculture, small-scale proces= sing, value-added agriculture and resources for direct marketing. Exhibitors = can rent poster board space for $15 or exhibit tables for $25. A Call for Exhibitors will soon be available at http://www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare. Or contact Lisa Bauer at 402-472-0= 265 or lbauer2@unl.edu for printed copies or more information. Proposals are d= ue Sept. 1. Exhibit proposals will be evaluated for contribution to conference g= oals and educational merit. Exhibitors will be notified of acceptance by Sept. 1= 5. Please help us build on this educational experience and share your mark= eting savvy! ********************************* Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. PO Box 830840 Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) lbauer2@unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare = --0__=LDAx6JjdzCEXzAFVfSAMgJ9LCvmP8olEr6yAvTRRVKpILbAZ07PVJ4QQ-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 16:03:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19861 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12113 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:09:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12014 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:09:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12555 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-7.ofrf.org (ofrf7.tychonet.com [205.179.36.7]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id MAA23707 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:08:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jane@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990809120359.00956380@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: jane2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:08:15 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2100 NAFEX seems a natural collaborator in the sustainable ag quest, being a network of fruit aficiandos who fervently believe in the power of the amateur to improve the quality and hardiness of fruits of all kinds. In "The Handbook for Fruit Explorers" (1986), Ram Fishman writes: By the end of the First World War, however, it was becoming increasingly apparent that we had evolved into a mass society of consumers fed by an ever-shrinking number of agricultural producers. The active quest for better fruit varieties was relegated to an elite corp of professional pomologists working for the universities and government agencies. The years that followed witnessed a drastic reduction in the variety and, in many respects, the quality of the fruit available in the marketplace. Scores of fine old cultivars became virtually extinct, as a few commercial varieties were allowed to dominate. Modern fuit culture became the province of large-scale orchardists in a few select regions, and modern fruit was rated primarily on appearance, shipping ability, and tolerance to prolonged cold storage. Too often the new scientific pomology and commercial orchard practices resulted in mediocrity for the fruit consumer. A few remembered the old varieties and flavors with nostalgia, but most people soon forgot and were content with commercial-quality fruit. NAFEX started as a network of amateur fruit growers who passed around bundles of letters containing growing tips, strategies, varieties, etc. Known as the Round Robin of Corresponding and Contributing Horticultural Hobbyists, it evolved into NAFEX which publishes the fruit-growers' newsletter "Pomona." NAFEX has a website (http://www.nafex.org/) and maintains a library of materials on fruit and nut production, including many old pamphlets and publications. Check it out! Jane Sooby technical program coordinator Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-426-6606 831-426-6670 fax 831-460-9713 home www.ofrf.org jane@ofrf.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 16:04:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA19883 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12411 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:10:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12402 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12581 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-7.ofrf.org (ofrf7.tychonet.com [205.179.36.7]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id MAA23827 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:09:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jane@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990809113642.00951ea0@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: jane2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:08:51 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: why British consumers oppose GM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2101 Dear Sanet, Reading a publication by the North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX, "The Handbook for Fruit Explorers," Ram Fishman, 1986), I found an interesting insight that may explain the greater resistance to GM crops in Great Britain than in the U.S.: As Europe emerged from the Dark Ages, the cloistered gardens of monasteries became models for the walled gardens of the High Middle Ages. By the time of the Renaissance, gardening for beauty and pleasure had become a widespread enthusiasm of the more affluent classes, and fruit culture naturally benefited from this overall resurgence of horticultural interest. In many ways, this renaissance in gardening was inspired by the biblical image of paradise as a fruit garden. The English in particular were fascinated by the pious pleasure afforded the gardener skilled in the culture of fruit trees. While we may appreciate the English horticulturalist's inspiration to create a paradise imbued with sober Christian values, *we must also recognize in the British character a more earthly passion for plant life that goes back to the forest altars of Druid priests.* (p.9) ("emphasis" mine) Jane Sooby technical program coordinator Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-426-6606 831-426-6670 fax 831-460-9713 home www.ofrf.org jane@ofrf.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 16:30:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA20911 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23510 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:30:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23493 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FLYLO (ppp245.cy-net.net [208.21.195.54]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12441 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:29:26 -0500 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BEE270.3E3619A0@FLYLO>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:05:32 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEE270.3E3619A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Phil Gramm Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:14:55 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2102 If Phil Gramm and Willie Nelson ever get together, they could make some real progress for farmers. I've been watching for Senator Gramm to get the monetary backing he'd need to make a solid run for the Presidency. martha, Flylo Farms, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 16:49:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21258 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04488 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:49:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04478 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:49:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA18400; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:47:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2a-213.ix.netcom.com(209.110.252.213) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018362; Mon Aug 9 14:47:34 1999 Message-ID: <00b501bee1d6$c2436440$26fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lon J. Rombough" , "SANET" , "AGRISYNERGY" , "Organic Gardening Discussion List" Subject: Re: Antioxidant Power of Natural Product Supplements Highly Variable Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 15:46:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2103 >While I tend to believe the below study under the heading: whole foods are better for you than "manufactured" preparations. One has to chuckle on who did the study and what they found. I would assume the US. Depart of Ag. would prefer to find that fruits and veggies are better. I just had to point this out in light of all the "bias" in scientific research threads lately (of which I agree there are). I do like the closing paragraph though our greens and beets are growing quite nicely. Beth vegetables than from taking natural product supplements claiming to be >potent antioxidants. That's according to analyses of 46 commercial >preparations by researchers with the Agricultural Research Service, the >chief scientific agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. > >snip >The researchers point out that a single serving of fresh or freshly cooked >fruits or vegetables supplies an average of 300 to 400 ORAC units. Many >fruits and vegetables--such as berries, plums, oranges, leafy greens and >beets--provide much higher antioxidant levels. By contrast 28 of the 40 >berry extracts tested and one of the six other products wouldn't provide 300 >ORAC units in a day's suggested intake. > >---------- >Scientific contacts: Ronald L. Prior, phone (617) 556-3311, or Guohua Cao, >phone (617) 556-3141, USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts >University, Boston, Mass., fax (617) 556-3299, prior@hnrc.tufts.edu, >cao_am@hnrc.tufts.edu. >---------- >This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information >distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the >latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at >http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. >* Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. >* ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD >20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 16:59:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA21498 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06282 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:53:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06223 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:56:52 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mary Gold To: "'Misha'" Cc: SANET-mg , Susan Chapman , Andy Clark , Abiola Adeyemi , Jane Gates Subject: RE: Old ag publications and the cost of memory Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:56:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2104 Michele, Thanks for the focus on "loss of cultural memory", and the encouragement to us here at the National Ag. Library! I have appreciated the whole sanet-mg exchange on old ag publications. As an ag librarian and a history major, I am doubly aware of the treasures that lie on the shelves above my office, and the "community of knowledge" (I like that term) that they represent. Each time I venture into the stacks I am amazed at what I find. There doesn't seem to be any aspect of food and fiber production that hasn't been addressed before. (In fact, I have come to believe that if I can't find something there it's because I haven't looked hard enough... just need more hours in the day.) I have stopped being surprised by the depth of information (some of it decades old) on every "new" concept that I am researching. I too, lament the waning of attention paid to these resources. The National Agricultural Library Reference staff and the Alternative Farming Systems Information Center have worked to make some of the wonderful information here more accessible to the public. Resources permitting (I also like the large check with many zeros image!), we will continue the effort. Some of the work done here includes: GUIDE TO HISTORICAL RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL AGRICULTURAL LIBRARY: THE GENERAL COLLECTION (Special Reference Briefs: SRB 94-02), by Susan Chapman, Reference and User Services Branch [This publication is designed as an entree to historical research at the National Agricultural Library, not as a comprehensive bibliography. Only a small number of the thousands of books and articles of historical interest have been included. Although the collection is worldwide in scope, containing material in some 75 languages, emphasis is on American agriculture and on English language publications. The Guide is divided into two sections: the General Collection, and Additional Resources. In addition to works dealing exclusively with agriculture, a limited number of selected materials in general history, the history of science, medicine, and technology, and general biography have been included. An update is in process.] http://www.nal.usda.gov/ref/history.htm The NAL Reference Staff have also put together indexes to the following USDA series: [none are available on the website yet; however, very limited supplies of hardcopy versions are available on request. Reference and AFSIC staff can also search for specific topics and titles in these series on request.] Index to USDA Miscellaneous Publications, Numbers 1-1479, compiled by Ellen Kay Miller. NAL, 1992. 109 p. NAL call no.: aS21.A99 1992 [Misc. Publications began publication in 1927] Index to USDA Technical Bulletins, Numbers 1-1802, compiled by Ellen Kay Miller. NAL, 1993. 120 p. NAL call no.: aZ5073.I52 1993 [Technical Bulletins began publication in 1927] USDA Agriculture Handbooks: Numbers 1-690, compiled by Ellen Kay Miller. NAL, 1992. 55 p. NAL call no.: S501.2 [Handbooks began publication in 1950] Index to USDA Agricultural Information Bulletins, Numbers 1-649, compiled by Ellen Kay Miller. NAL, 1992. NAL call no.: aS21.A74M54 1992 [Ag. Info. Bulletins began publication in 1949] NAL, along with a consortium of other agricultural libraries, has also been active in several Preservation projects (digital and microfilm) of historic materials. http://www.nal.usda.gov/preservation/ Finally, NAL does accept donations of older books and journals, video tapes, etc. For their policies see: Gift and Exchange Program http://www.nal.usda.gov/acq/gift_and_exchange.html AFSIC Resources: Tracing the Evolution of Organic/Sustainable Agriculture: A Selected and Annotated Bibliography, compiled by Jane Potter Gates. Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture (BLA) no. 72. NAL, November 1988. http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/AFSIC_pubs/tracing.htm During the late 80s and early 90s, Jane Gates worked on a series of "oral histories", videotaped interviews with "people who have provided leadership and inspiration in the field of alternative or sustainable agriculture." Interviewees include Wes Jackson, Fred Kirschenmann, William Lockeretz, Patrick Madden, James Duke, Robert Rodale, Paul O'Connell, Dick Thompson, Jayne MacLean, Charles Francis, and Garth Youngberg. The tapes are available through Interlibrary Loan, or can be viewed here at NAL. AFSIC recently published Vegetables and Fruits: A Guide to Heirloom Varieties and Community-Based Stewardship, by Suzanne DeMuth. NAL, September 1998. (3 Volumes.) It is a wonderful resource on historic American vegetable and fruit varieties. Volume 3 addresses older publications in particular related to varieties. All three volumes (Volume 1. Annotated Bibliography; Volume 2. Resource Organizations; Volume 3. Historical Supplement) are available in hardcopy from our office or can be read via our website: http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/AFSIC_pubs/heirloom/heirloom.htm Although I am an enthusiastic advocate of making this knowledge electronically available, there is something special about leafing through the old volumes of planting guides, market plans, and field studies. Here at the Library, I can actually do that. Most of the documents indexed in the above publications can be requested, leafed through, read, and photocopied in the NAL Reference area. The National Agricultural Library is open to the public every weekday, 8 to 4:30. Within the US, the materials can also be requested through Interlibrary Loan. Thanks from Abiola, Andy, Jane and me for your message, Michelle. And thanks for giving me the chance to pass along information about the candle burners here at the Library and AFSIC. Sincerely, Mary Mary V. Gold Alternative Farming Systems Information Center National Agricultural Library, ARS, USDA 10301 Baltimore Ave., Room 304 Beltsville MD 20705-2351 phone: 301-504-6559 fax: 301-504-6409 e-mail: mgold@nal.usda.gov http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic -----Original Message----- From: Misha [mailto:mgs23@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:43 AM To: SANET-mg Subject: Old ag publications and the cost of memory Howdy, all-- An interesting issue that Larry London seeded here re: the value of older ag publications, many of which, because they predate chemical intensive methods, contain rich humus for us sustaggies...and anyone concerned with agricultural practices invented sometime prior to last year by Corporation X in "university-industry partnership" with Land Grant Z. A few thoughts. 1) Many land grant college of ag libraries have large holdings of these old publications; some are being decatalogued and disposed of at a frightening rate. When I was at UW-Madison, ag library staff were pressured to make room for new publications, and that often means that older ones go to Cutter collections...or the dumpster or book sales. But at Madison's ag library--Steenbock--there were a number of folks with the good sense to know what riches these publications contained, and to foresee a day when people might once again care about what's in them. There were several folks engaged in trying to raise money to get these crumbling old ag publications into electronic format, so their contents would be preserved in that medium. If I remember correctly, there was a multi-land-grant initiative on this--and my notes on this are back in Madison. I'm cc'ing this note to Gretchen Farwell, the assistant director of Steenbock and a long-time advocate of sustainable ag information systems. If she replies, I'll post any helpful info to the group, or she can. Gretchen, thanks in advance. 2) The loss of cultural memory in agriculture, to my view, is no less important than the loss of, say, a language. I always think of the National Yiddish Book Center, founded out of the efforts of one man, Aaron Lansky, who while a student of Yiddish literature in Montreal realized that countless books in Yiddish were being discarded. These books--the property and cultural memory of people who had survived the /pogroms/ of eastern Europe, the Holocaust, and Stalin's "reforms"--were sometimes discarded by the children or grandchildren of those people, either because they couldn't read them, or didn't see the value in them. Lansky made it his life's work to collect these books, and he recruited other young people to do this also. In 1980 he founded the NYBC (a loft in a building in New York, I seem to remember), and it grew from this early collection of cast-off books to a cultural center in Amherst, MA, with holdings of 1.4 million books in a language that has been revitalized, largely thanks to his efforts. (In 1980, Yiddish experts believed that there were perhaps 70,000 extant books in the language worldwide; they were off by some orders of magnitude.) The NYBC has also built Yiddish book collections at scholarly libraries all over the world, as it has come across duplicate editions of books. Thus the written cultural memory of a people in diaspora has been preserved, and allowed to find its way back into living memory. Who is doing this for old ag publications? Who is going to farm auctions to look for old treatises on husbandry, mechanicking, breeding, etc.? How often does it happen that an elder ag agent passes away, or surviving widow/er does, and a lifetime collection of books and periodicals is lost? Or a rural library closes, ditto? Where are the regional or state or private holdings of these materials, and who is talking to their collectors? Who is developing annotated bibliographies of the catalogued and uncatalogued materials? The luminous and wonderful Walworth Co., WI, ag agent Lee Cunningham and I have had this discussion several times over the course of the past 5 or 6 years. He makes it part of his calling to give a home to old ag publications that he finds, or that people offer him. He said that people come to him because they try to donate books to their local libraries and are told that the libraries don't have the resources of shelf space or cataloguing labor to bring the books into their collections. Of course preference for those resources goes to Danielle Steel or Tom Clancy best sellers, since libraries now must justify their existence by stocking what the customers want. And libraries no longer collect books to preserve them. They are subject to vast economies of preference, taste, revenues, and technological capacity. In other words, demand means shelf space--in libraries, as in supermarkets. So I ask again--who is doing this for pre-high-chemical/high-tech ag books? Who in sustainable agriculture should assess and speak on behalf of this loss of cultural memory? I know that the National Agricultural Library does what it can--but when's the last time those folks had the resources to publicize NAL's holdings of those materials, or make them available in more easily replicable media, or develop user's guides or navigational guides to what's out there? I have serious concerns that most of sustainable ag's resources--both at the national and regional level--are being targeted at the production of new information via research funding. And that very little, if any, is being targeted at the creation of KNOWLEDGE COMMUNITIES or that preserve that information, and put it into context--a context that includes not only the new findings, but the older ones as well. Or KNOWLEDGE NAVIGATION TOOLS that allow people to access this information. Efforts to do this have struggled uphill like a VW Beetle in the Rocky Mts., running with a hot # 3 cylinder and worn-down points. Look at the struggles that the Alternative Farming Systems Information Center at NAL faces--AFSIC's staff for years now have tried to fill some of this role, doing carefully honed Agricola searches of NAL holdings to help us seekers of information know what's available. A service like that, Dan Glickman should be handing them big foamcore-mounted checks at press conferences, saying thank you with numbers with many zeroes behind it. 3) Finally, I've said this before (Cramer, you can plug your ears, because you've heard this rant more than a couple dozen times :^) but the consolidation of the publishing and telecommunications industry, coupled with the privatization of Extension, promises DISASTER for sustainable ag and the cultural memory we are trying to build with current sustag information products. If public institutions don't take up this slack, then sustainable ag information and communications will inevitably go to the highest private or corporate bidder. Wanna start making some guesses as to who that could be? Our information products are highly unlikely to able to either maintain market share *or* exist on a cost-recovery basis. Unless, of course, sustainable ag is recast as something to sell to the masses (mainstream farmers) and the cutting-edge nature of it is blunted...or forgotten.. Robert Rodale knew this--he was happy to publish /The New Farm/ and let other publications pay for it. I've heard him blasted as a poor businessman, but he certainly knew how to build an effective knowledge network. We in sustag have limited ability, in a fragmented way, to create information products within our various organizations...but then these products are so dispersed, and the organizations so poorly networked, that I see us as the equivalent of mediaeval monastic libraries in the Dark Ages. A bunch of people scattered across the world, trying to keep our respective little candles burning in a howling cultural/economic wind. The Internet has been one of the only ways we've had to talk to each other, and many of us here on SANET got here in the good old days, when universal access was still a principle of Internetworking. (AOL kissed that good bye, for everyone, in a big way by equating access with how much money they could make getting as many people as possible "on the Net" to look for--never mind.) The physics of publishing are increasingly moving in the same direction as everything else in the economy: cheap, mass scale products or costly, luxury ones. Finding publishers who will produce and then market a book (never mind a pamphlet or CD or video) with a limited-at-best readership grows ever more difficult. Niche publishers struggle along till their well-intentioned people burn out under the heat of their own efforts. This is why ATTRA is such an EXPONENTIALLY IMPORTANT INITIATIVE. Their library of sustainable-farmer-oriented literature could prove to be one of the most critical cultural resources in the nation someday. Not to mention the perfect information and knowledge complement to NAL's holdings of scholarly literature. This is why the Sustainable Farming Connection Web site was such a BRILLIANT IDEA (though it never got the resource support it needed to get it truly off the ground and sustain it as it deserves). Enough for now. Larry, thanks for seeding the topic. I wish we could all mosey across the street to The Sand Bar, the little neighborhood pub that advertises itself as "on the edge of Western civilization," and put our feet up, and talk about this stuff till the wee hours. Lacking the luxury of realtime conversation amongst us all...gods, I'm grateful for this Internet group. Thanks Andy, Abioli, Jane, and USDA/NAL. We often neglect to bow in your direction. And thanks, all, for listening. Writing from lands end, I wish you all peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We're not against ideas. We're against people spreading them. --Augusto Pinochet To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 17:20:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA22344 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18909 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:15:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18900 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:15:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.171] (li-ppp06.hevanet.com [204.119.60.171]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA17167 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908092015.NAA17167@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 13:17:23 -0700 Subject: Re: North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX) From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2105 As a longtime NAFEX member, I agree. Not everyone in NAFEX does things completely in the sustainable mode, but the percentage of sustainable growers is higher than among general commercial growers. One of the members, Michael Phillips, has written a good book on organic apple growing that is worth reading. If you wish, I can post the review. It's not long - about 350 words. -Lon Rombough Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom ---------- >From: Jane Sooby >To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX) >Date: Mon, Aug 9, 1999, 12:08 PM > > >NAFEX seems a natural collaborator in the sustainable ag quest, being a >network of fruit aficiandos who fervently believe in the power of the >amateur to improve the quality and hardiness of fruits of all kinds. In >"The Handbook for Fruit Explorers" (1986), Ram Fishman writes: > >By the end of the First World War, however, it was becoming increasingly >apparent that we had evolved into a mass society of consumers fed by an >ever-shrinking number of agricultural producers. The active quest for >better fruit varieties was relegated to an elite corp of professional >pomologists working for the universities and government agencies. The years >that followed witnessed a drastic reduction in the variety and, in many >respects, the quality of the fruit available in the marketplace. Scores of >fine old cultivars became virtually extinct, as a few commercial varieties >were allowed to dominate. Modern fuit culture became the province of >large-scale orchardists in a few select regions, and modern fruit was rated >primarily on appearance, shipping ability, and tolerance to prolonged cold >storage. > Too often the new scientific pomology and commercial orchard practices >resulted in mediocrity for the fruit consumer. A few remembered the old >varieties and flavors with nostalgia, but most people soon forgot and were >content with commercial-quality fruit. > >NAFEX started as a network of amateur fruit growers who passed around >bundles of letters containing growing tips, strategies, varieties, etc. >Known as the Round Robin of Corresponding and Contributing Horticultural >Hobbyists, it evolved into NAFEX which publishes the fruit-growers' >newsletter "Pomona." > >NAFEX has a website (http://www.nafex.org/) and maintains a library of >materials on fruit and nut production, including many old pamphlets and >publications. Check it out! > > >Jane Sooby >technical program coordinator >Organic Farming Research Foundation >P.O. Box 440 >Santa Cruz, CA 95061 >831-426-6606 >831-426-6670 fax >831-460-9713 home >www.ofrf.org >jane@ofrf.org > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 17:56:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA23230 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05773 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:40:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05761 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:40:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.51] [199.175.106.59] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11DwC3-0006dMC for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:38:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:41:01 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1197 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2106 Emily from Berkeley, In the Cowichan Valley on southern Vancouver Island our Farmers' Market (open Saturday only, April to October) operates pretty much as yours. It is managed by a Smallholders' non-profit society. The land belongs to the city of Duncan. Vendors pay a modest fee for booth space. Certified organic is not required but nearly all vendors fit the heading organic or natural. No meats are sold at the market but orders are taken. Processed foods (from baked goods to honey) and handicrafts are permitted if made locally (a flea market was not allowed). There is usually live musical entertainment. The market, in its present form, is about four years old, it is very well attended. Some things, like free range eggs, are sold out within an hour of opening. In addition to the market there is a farm-gate marketing group in Saanich (30 to 45 minutes away) to which some of the Cowichan farms belong. They publish an annual flyer in the form of an eight-page tabloid complete with maps to locate farms, each farm listed with commodities produced, and a calander when each commodity is ripe and ready for sale. About 60 farms are represented. It is very successful. Also in the Cowichan Valley are two farm stores, both organic, one Demeter certified, open year around and offering weekly produce box programs, each has a couple of hundred customers. Hope this helps, Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 18:01:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA23357 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20766 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:07:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA20724 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990809211041.13849.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.136.65.96] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 14:10:41 PDT Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:10:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Re: today's wall street journal To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2107 Has anyone seen the most recent edition of "Organic Gardening"? I missed Maria's editorial re: biotech and Monsanto until I read the letters in this edition. Also: throughout this edition, are "food facts" alerting people to the presence of biotech in their foods, not to mention pesticides and hormones and corporatization of the seed industry (threating the diversity of seed varieties available and viable). This more politicized stance is relatively new from the magazine. Their (new?) motto, "if you don't or can't grow it yourself, BUY organic!" Thanks Kate for helping keep me up on Ag news in the mainstream. Kirsten --- Kate Smith wrote: > on page a18 in the review and outlook section of the > wall > street journal is a scathing piece of writing > entitled > Greenwar. > > here is the last paragraph... > > "All of these things, plus the fact that biotech > could be > painted as a conspiracy of U.S. agribusiness, have > worked > against the industry in Europe. When the Iceland > grocery > chain decided to use genetically--modified foods as > a wedge > issue, it ran a picture of Bill Clinton with the > tagline > "The U.S. President doesn't care what you put in > your > mouth." One hesitates to speculate what Americans > would > have made of the slogan. The best lesson we could > learn > from Europe is the foolishness of allowing food > technology > and safety to become politicized merely for the > benefit of > fund-raising by the fringe." > > And in an earlier paragraph it reminds us that no > one has > sprouted wings as a result of the many years that > Coke has > been using high-fructose corn sweetener made from > genetically modified corn. > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 21:13:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA28179 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28008 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:17:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27958 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:16:40 -0500 Message-ID: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB0B9711DE@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Webb, Kevin" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: Avery v. Salatin is online Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:16:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2108 It seems the curse to anyone trying to explain sustainability is that they are forced to try and explain it within the understanding/world view that sustainability is seeking to supplant; I never know where to start when talking to someone who is new to the subject. Sustainability does not lend itself to sound bites or bar graphs, nor should it try in my opinion. Yet in a society seemingly ruled by the information age we are most often forced to do just that. I'm afraid that Jane and John Q. Public might have found Avery more convincing, at least in reading he seemed more polished than Salatin to me; maybe I'm just being cynical in thinking that people are more swayed by sweet talking. Considering Avery seemed to deliberately misquote the Soil and Water Conservation Society of America, I find myself tempted to see him as some shadowy figure wrapped up in a grand conspiracy to destroy organic/sustainable ag. I definitely question his motives even more than before. Still the question to me remains: how do we as members of the sustainable ag community educate the public at large in a way that is complete yet concise? (Not to mention non-judgemental yet inspirational, informed but open to input, etc.)We must make the issue real to people who think little or nothing about agriculture in their daily lives. Kevin Webb Food Circles Networking Project Department of Rural Sociology University of Missouri-Columbia 105 Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 (573) 882-3776 [573] 882=1473 (fax) webbk@missouri.edu -----Original Message----- From: Dan Hook [mailto:guldann@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 8:18 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery v. Salatin is online Thank-you to all involved for getting this on the web. I know my procrastinating personality would never have aloud me to send away for the pages :). I enjoyed reading it. I understand the host's comments that he didn't even get to ask but a few of his questions. My question to the group, what did you think? What do you think John and Jane Q. Public would have thought. Frankly I thought it was mostly neutral with maybe Salatin sounding more knowledgeable. He really farms Avery spewed facts. Group? Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 9 23:10:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA00221 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20068 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:18:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (stsml01.atl.mediaone.net [24.88.1.79]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19855 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.net (client61052.atl.mediaone.net [24.88.61.52]) by stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25293 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:18:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <037d01bee2b5$ea4faa40$343d5818@ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.net> From: "Craig Gilbert" To: Subject: Paulownia Trees from China Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:24:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_037A_01BEE2B5.E96DD5C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2109 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_037A_01BEE2B5.E96DD5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some discussions on the Georgia Land Stewardship list have addressed = this tree native to China with a deep tap root, pounds of leaves, and a = life of some 10 years to have a viable timber product. Previous Sanet = posts have mentioned its ability to aid in reclaiming sites of hog = waste. The issue of introducing the species to this area with out understanding = its impact on the balance of our eco system was raised. Is there a useful insight as to introducing yet another foreign plant = into our region (Southeast)? Does anyone know of potential problems with = this tree? Thank you Incidentally see the Georgia Land Stewardship Assoc.. site at http://www.pd.org/~glsa/=20 ------=_NextPart_000_037A_01BEE2B5.E96DD5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Some discussions on the Georgia Land = Stewardship=20 list have addressed this tree native to China with a deep tap root, = pounds of=20 leaves, and a life of some 10 years to have a viable timber product. = Previous=20 Sanet posts have mentioned its ability to aid in reclaiming sites of hog = waste.
     
    The issue of introducing the species = to this=20 area with out understanding its impact on the balance of our eco system = was=20 raised.
    Is there a useful insight as to = introducing yet=20 another foreign plant into our region (Southeast)? Does anyone know of = potential=20 problems with this tree?
     
    Thank you
     
    Incidentally see the Georgia Land = Stewardship=20 Assoc.. site at
    http://www.pd.org/~glsa/ =
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_037A_01BEE2B5.E96DD5C0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 00:57:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA02314 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA03639 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:07:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03563 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-13-17.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.209]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA26229; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:58:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199908100358.WAA26229@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Webb, Kevin" , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Avery v. Salatin is online Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:07:06 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2110 I have not read the entire Salatin/Avery feud but I think we need to give credit to anyone who can even get a word in edge wise with Dennis Avery. He is one of the best heavy hitters that the industrialised food supply has to offer. I've got a feeling he is as sharp as they get about avoiding the real issues in agriculture. My hat goes off to Joel Salatin. I've been in some Farm Bureau Discussion meets and went up against some "Avery" types. It is extremely difficult to keep a conversation aimed at true family farm struggles and rural community issues. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer LaGrange, IN Visit our farm on the web at www.grassfarmer Visit it in reality on August 21st for our annual field day. (Free Hog Roast!) ---------- > From: Webb, Kevin > To: 'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu' > Subject: RE: Avery v. Salatin is online > Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:16 PM > > It seems the curse to anyone trying to explain sustainability is that they > are forced to try and explain it within the understanding/world view that > sustainability is seeking to supplant; I never know where to start when > talking to someone who is new to the subject. Sustainability does not lend > itself to sound bites or bar graphs, nor should it try in my opinion. Yet in > a society seemingly ruled by the information age we are most often forced to > do just that. > > I'm afraid that Jane and John Q. Public might have found Avery more > convincing, at least in reading he seemed more polished than Salatin to me; > maybe I'm just being cynical in thinking that people are more swayed by > sweet talking. Considering Avery seemed to deliberately misquote the Soil > and Water Conservation Society of America, I find myself tempted to see him > as some shadowy figure wrapped up in a grand conspiracy to destroy > organic/sustainable ag. I definitely question his motives even more than > before. > > Still the question to me remains: how do we as members of the sustainable ag > community educate the public at large in a way that is complete yet concise? > (Not to mention non-judgemental yet inspirational, informed but open to > input, etc.)We must make the issue real to people who think little or > nothing about agriculture in their daily lives. > > Kevin Webb > Food Circles Networking Project > Department of Rural Sociology > University of Missouri-Columbia > 105 Sociology > Columbia, MO 65211 > (573) 882-3776 > [573] 882=1473 (fax) > webbk@missouri.edu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Hook [mailto:guldann@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 8:18 AM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Avery v. Salatin is online > > > Thank-you to all involved for getting this on the web. I know my > procrastinating personality would never have aloud me to send away for the > pages :). I enjoyed reading it. I understand the host's comments that he > didn't even get to ask but a few of his questions. My question to the > group, what did you think? What do you think John and Jane Q. Public would > have thought. Frankly I thought it was mostly neutral with maybe Salatin > sounding more knowledgeable. He really farms Avery spewed facts. Group? > Beth > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 03:43:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA05285 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 03:43:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA26355 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 03:01:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26289 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 03:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0059.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.59]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16464; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AE2E59.1F5B3D7C@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 18:26:49 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Ritchie CC: Cecile Mills , Sustainable Ag Net Subject: Re: Two Mindsets References: <3.0.5.32.19990808094048.00ad7650@iatp.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2111 "get out of the way"====What would you do in the arid region of southern Madagascar, of which I was thinking, when there was no rain no rain no rain for a long, long time. Can't grow rice. Can't grow the greens those people like to eat and need to eat. Cattle can't find green stuff to eat. People get weak when they are so hungry. You should be there and try it sometime. Mark Ritchie wrote: > why not get out of the way and let people grow their own food? > > At 04:57 AM 8/8/99 -0700, Cecile Mills wrote: > >Re: Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture > > > >>I know that, even if there were plenty of food sent to starving > >>Africans, etc., those starving people would not get. it Somehow > >>the food would not get there or get there and rot on the docks, or > >>be grabbed by some greedy person who would keep it until it rotted > >>because the hungry poor could not afford it. > >> > >I read about this sequence of events in the early sixties in the book "The > >Ugly American." Since we haven't gotten a delivery system down pat in > >thirty years, perhaps we should help the government department(s) > >responsible for poor delivery by suggesting some solutions or paths to > >follow towards getting the food sent by well-meaning donatoss and unwilling > >tax payers to the intended recipient. If we can send a man to the moon, > >etc. etc. > > > >seaseal@got.net > > > >believe it just before you see it > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > Mark Ritchie, President > Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy > 2105 First Ave. South > Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA > 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) > mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 04:30:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA05653 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17330 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 03:38:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17320 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 03:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.66.101.243] (SC-192.got.net [209.66.101.192]) by always.got.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA41505 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37ACBABC.BDB2D8EB@earthlink.net> References: <19990805182654.33044.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:37:30 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cecile Mills Subject: Re: farmers markets Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2112 Bargyla Rateaver wrote: >I am told that other farmers markets are sponsored by > something such as the Chamber of Commerce. When this is the case, the market > is often not as focused on organics, I have heard. (?) This happened in our agricultural community of Watsonville. The Chamber of Commerce wanted to have the Farmers' Market on Thursday night as that was when the local large department store was open late. The farmers pleaded, citing the fact that they were at a Farmers' Market that afternoon in Monterey, about 30 minutes away, making it a tough day if they went to both Markets. The C o C didn't care, went ahead, and alienated nearly all the organic farmers around. That market folded as the result of diminished customers afer an earthquake ruined our downtown in 1989. A new Farmers' Market, also not organized by organic farmers but commercial interests, has only two stalls (out of about fifteen) that are organic. Sad, but unless organic farmers (or member organizations supporting them) begin joining the C o C and attending meetings and getting on committees and somehow wresting some of the decision making away, this will probably continue. In the next large community up, Santa Cruz, a Farmers' Market there is organized differently through the city, (not the C o C) and has probably 90% organic of about 35 stalls. That market has been going for ten years, while our new baby is only two years old. The fee for a stall there is $30, while ours is $15. Vendors can only sell what they grow or produce. Both markets have sections for things like bread, jams, salsa, and cheese. We have a dynamo woman how manages three of the regional Farmers' Markets and assists others in getting going. > I am interested in the support for farmers markets. I wonder if you all > could tell me who is responsible for the farmers markets that you > participate in, whether it be an organization, or a town. Is there a fee to > participate or guidelines to what venders can sell? Is there a general > farmers market organization of some sort that helps start markets in new > areas? seaseal@got.net believe it just before you see it To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 04:58:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA05834 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA25016 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:01:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24926 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0151.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.151]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25467; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 01:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AFD213.EF5233B7@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:17:39 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Webb, Kevin" CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Avery v. Salatin is online References: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB0B9711DE@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2113 How about the Man who was perfect, gave his all for others, never said one ugly word to any undeserving person, spread the word about loving even our enemies, healed all who came to him, fully and completely without cost, even ended up giving his life for all of us. Did that effort affect YOUR life??? ============================ Webb, Kevin wrote: > It seems the curse to anyone trying to explain sustainability is that they > are forced to try and explain it within the understanding/world view that > sustainability is seeking to supplant; I never know where to start when > talking to someone who is new to the subject. Sustainability does not lend > itself to sound bites or bar graphs, nor should it try in my opinion. Yet in > a society seemingly ruled by the information age we are most often forced to > do just that. > > I'm afraid that Jane and John Q. Public might have found Avery more > convincing, at least in reading he seemed more polished than Salatin to me; > maybe I'm just being cynical in thinking that people are more swayed by > sweet talking. Considering Avery seemed to deliberately misquote the Soil > and Water Conservation Society of America, I find myself tempted to see him > as some shadowy figure wrapped up in a grand conspiracy to destroy > organic/sustainable ag. I definitely question his motives even more than > before. > > Still the question to me remains: how do we as members of the sustainable ag > community educate the public at large in a way that is complete yet concise? > (Not to mention non-judgemental yet inspirational, informed but open to > input, etc.)We must make the issue real to people who think little or > nothing about agriculture in their daily lives. > > Kevin Webb > Food Circles Networking Project > Department of Rural Sociology > University of Missouri-Columbia > 105 Sociology > Columbia, MO 65211 > (573) 882-3776 > [573] 882=1473 (fax) > webbk@missouri.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Hook [mailto:guldann@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 8:18 AM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Avery v. Salatin is online > > Thank-you to all involved for getting this on the web. I know my > procrastinating personality would never have aloud me to send away for the > pages :). I enjoyed reading it. I understand the host's comments that he > didn't even get to ask but a few of his questions. My question to the > group, what did you think? What do you think John and Jane Q. Public would > have thought. Frankly I thought it was mostly neutral with maybe Salatin > sounding more knowledgeable. He really farms Avery spewed facts. Group? > Beth > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 04:59:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA05844 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA25156 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:01:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25054 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0151.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.151]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25418; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 01:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AFD0D1.511BF0CA@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:12:18 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Craig Gilbert CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Paulownia Trees from China References: <037d01bee2b5$ea4faa40$343d5818@ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2791F36D57272860F140B0C1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2114 --------------2791F36D57272860F140B0C1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Incidentally, its wood is very brittle. Tree branches break off so easily. Craig Gilbert wrote: > Some discussions on the Georgia Land Stewardship list have addressed > this tree native to China with a deep tap root, pounds of leaves, and > a life of some 10 years to have a viable timber product. Previous > Sanet posts have mentioned its ability to aid in reclaiming sites of > hog waste. The issue of introducing the species to this area with out > understanding its impact on the balance of our eco system was > raised.Is there a useful insight as to introducing yet another foreign > plant into our region (Southeast)? Does anyone know of potential > problems with this tree? Thank you Incidentally see the Georgia Land > Stewardship Assoc.. site athttp://www.pd.org/~glsa/ --------------2791F36D57272860F140B0C1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Incidentally, its wood is very brittle. Tree branches break off so easily.

    Craig Gilbert wrote:

     Some discussions on the Georgia Land Stewardship list have addressed this tree native to China with a deep tap root, pounds of leaves, and a life of some 10 years to have a viable timber product. Previous Sanet posts have mentioned its ability to aid in reclaiming sites of hog waste. The issue of introducing the species to this area with out understanding its impact on the balance of our eco system was raised.Is there a useful insight as to introducing yet another foreign plant into our region (Southeast)? Does anyone know of potential problems with this tree? Thank you Incidentally see the Georgia Land Stewardship Assoc.. site athttp://www.pd.org/~glsa/ 
      --------------2791F36D57272860F140B0C1-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 05:04:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA05881 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA25141 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:01:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25047 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:01:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0151.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.151]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25506; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 01:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AFD2D5.5A341E3A@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:20:53 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kirsten Saylor CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: today's wall street journal References: <19990809211041.13849.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2115 How about the whole change of tone of that magazine? Did you notice that sentence, embracing a new approach? Even recipes, yet. Kirsten Saylor wrote: > Has anyone seen the most recent edition of "Organic > Gardening"? I missed Maria's editorial re: biotech > and Monsanto until I read the letters in this edition. > Also: throughout this edition, are "food facts" > alerting people to the presence of biotech in their > foods, not to mention pesticides and hormones and > corporatization of the seed industry (threating the > diversity of seed varieties available and viable). > > This more politicized stance is relatively new from > the magazine. Their (new?) motto, "if you don't or > can't grow it yourself, BUY organic!" > > Thanks Kate for helping keep me up on Ag news in the > mainstream. > > Kirsten > > --- Kate Smith wrote: > > on page a18 in the review and outlook section of the > > wall > > street journal is a scathing piece of writing > > entitled > > Greenwar. > > > > here is the last paragraph... > > > > "All of these things, plus the fact that biotech > > could be > > painted as a conspiracy of U.S. agribusiness, have > > worked > > against the industry in Europe. When the Iceland > > grocery > > chain decided to use genetically--modified foods as > > a wedge > > issue, it ran a picture of Bill Clinton with the > > tagline > > "The U.S. President doesn't care what you put in > > your > > mouth." One hesitates to speculate what Americans > > would > > have made of the slogan. The best lesson we could > > learn > > from Europe is the foolishness of allowing food > > technology > > and safety to become politicized merely for the > > benefit of > > fund-raising by the fringe." > > > > And in an earlier paragraph it reminds us that no > > one has > > sprouted wings as a result of the many years that > > Coke has > > been using high-fructose corn sweetener made from > > genetically modified corn. > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 06:58:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA06594 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA10752 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:07:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10635 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 168; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:10:11 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990810045749.00afb720@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:57:49 -0500 To: "Craig Gilbert" , From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: Re: Paulownia Trees from China In-Reply-To: <037d01bee2b5$ea4faa40$343d5818@ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.n et> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2116 another kudzu? At 10:24 PM 8/9/99 -0000, Craig Gilbert wrote: >>>> Some discussions on the Georgia Land Stewardship list have addressed this tree native to China with a deep tap root, pounds of leaves, and a life of some 10 years to have a viable timber product. Previous Sanet posts have mentioned its ability to aid in reclaiming sites of hog waste. The issue of introducing the species to this area with out understanding its impact on the balance of our eco system was raised. Is there a useful insight as to introducing yet another foreign plant into our region (Southeast)? Does anyone know of potential problems with this tree? Thank you Incidentally see the Georgia Land Stewardship Assoc.. site at <http://www.pd.org/~glsa/ <<<<<<<< Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 06:58:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA06598 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA10787 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:07:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10675 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 168; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:10:13 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990810050832.00af83e0@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:08:32 -0500 To: Bargyla Rateaver , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: Re: Two Mindsets In-Reply-To: <37AE2E59.1F5B3D7C@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990808094048.00ad7650@iatp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2117 Dearest Bargyla, Let me ignore the false implications and accusations in this recent posting and get to the point. If southern Madagascar is short, then the obvious next place to get food is from their food reserves. If the food reserves are depleted, then the next best source is a close source - like Central or Northern Madagascar, etc. Shipping food from Minnesota to Madagascar is easy -- it is also deadly and would be last on the list from my point of view. Sincerely, Mark Ritchie At 06:26 PM 8/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >"get out of the way"====What would you do in the arid region of southern >Madagascar, of which I was thinking, when there was no rain no rain no rain for >a long, long time. Can't grow rice. Can't grow the greens those people like to >eat and need to eat. Cattle can't find green stuff to eat. People get weak when >they are so hungry. You should be there and try it sometime. > >Mark Ritchie wrote: > >> why not get out of the way and let people grow their own food? >> >> At 04:57 AM 8/8/99 -0700, Cecile Mills wrote: >> >Re: Two Mindsets, Two Visions of Sustainable Agriculture >> > >> >>I know that, even if there were plenty of food sent to starving >> >>Africans, etc., those starving people would not get. it Somehow >> >>the food would not get there or get there and rot on the docks, or >> >>be grabbed by some greedy person who would keep it until it rotted >> >>because the hungry poor could not afford it. >> >> >> >I read about this sequence of events in the early sixties in the book "The >> >Ugly American." Since we haven't gotten a delivery system down pat in >> >thirty years, perhaps we should help the government department(s) >> >responsible for poor delivery by suggesting some solutions or paths to >> >follow towards getting the food sent by well-meaning donatoss and unwilling >> >tax payers to the intended recipient. If we can send a man to the moon, >> >etc. etc. >> > >> >seaseal@got.net >> > >> >believe it just before you see it >> > >> > >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > >> Mark Ritchie, President >> Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy >> 2105 First Ave. South >> Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA >> 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) >> mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 09:09:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA09603 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27079 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:02:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov [205.156.34.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27068; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jquinton.csc.noaa.gov (205.156.35.23) by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov (Worldmail 1.3.167); 10 Aug 1999 08:01:49 -0400 Message-ID: <37A97BD5000018B2@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov> (added by mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov) X-Sender: jquinton@mailsrv.csc.noaa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:59:40 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: Jim Quinton Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1209 In-Reply-To: <199908100802.EAA26186@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2118
    ===========================================
    P A N U P S
    Pesticide Action Network Updates Service
    ===========================================

    Organic Crops Competitive with Conventional Systems

    August 9, 1999

    Farm profits from organic cropping systems can equal or exceed profits
    from conventional rotations in the Midwestern United States, according
    to a new study by the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative
    Agriculture. The report, The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean
    Production in the Midwestern United States, reviews past and current
    research on conditions that make growing organic crops profitable, as
    well as studies that compare organic grain and soybean production with
    conventional production.

    There has been dramatic growth in the U.S. and worldwide in the
    production of and demand for organically produced food and fiber. At
    the same time, consumers around the world have been willing to pay
    premium prices for organic products. For example, farm prices for
    organic corn were on average 35% higher than U.S. cash prices for
    conventionally grown corn in 1995, 44% higher in 1996 and 73%
    higher in 1997. Prices for organic, cleaned Clear Hilum soybeans (the
    type used by the Japanese for tofu) were more than twice the U.S. cash
    price for conventionally grown soybeans in 1995 and 1997, and almost
    twice those levels in 1996.


    This news brief is very good and very timely from my standpoint. There is a burgeoning demand for organically grown grains and oilseeds. There is also burgeoning production. With the current depression in commodity production rippling through the Cornbelt and Great Plains states, the price signals emanating from the organics market are being understood loud and clear. Prepare for a veritable surge in organic grain and oilseeds production in the immediate future as desparate farmers respond....   Logically, the premiums will be under pressure as this mounting flood of organically produced grain and oilseeds comes through the 'pipeline' and comparative economic systems re-balance during the next few growing seasons...


    Jim Quinton, Adoption Risk Analyst

    Ag Conservation Innovation Center
    2234 S. Hobson Ave.
    Charleston, SC    29405-2413

    phone: (843) 740-1327
    fax: (843) 740-1331

    e-mail:  Jim.Quinton@agconserv.com
    also e-mail:  quintons@charleston.net

    http://www.agconserv.com/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 09:41:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA10201 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14958 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:44:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14949 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csi.cgnet.com (csi.cgnet.com [192.156.137.135]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28575 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JEL9UK5HH4000CRL@CSI.CGNET.COM> for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:13:10 PDT Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:20:35 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:20:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:10:04 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: why British consumers oppose GM To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404EAC08B4@10.248.CABI.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2119 Oh, m'gosh, what tosh! The Fishman analysis is simplistic in the extreme. The nostalgic attachment of the British to their gardens has more to do with the Church and landed gentry than any Druid priest. The Church maintained the serf system in the Middle Ages, were huge land owners themselves, and were hand-in-glove with the State. Later the landed gentry controlled more and more of the land. By the end of the eighteenth century the industrial revolution was in full swing in the UK and at the turn of the nineteenth century only 30% made their living on the land. Land enclosure during the nineteenth century put more and more power into the hands of fewer and fewer people and the rural poor were expelled from previously common land and forced into towns. Even worse were the land clearances, most notorious in Scotland, in the mid-nineteenth century where huge tracts of land were cleared of people for sheep farming. Hence the large emmigration to Canada and the USA at that time. Basically, the British were thrown off their land by powerful and ruthless business interests (sound familiar?). The pious horticulturalist who wanted to create paradise mentioned below were the self-same powerful land owners. The Brits love their gardens because that is all they have left remotely connected to the land. Of course, my analysis is also too simplistic. Factor in other things like island nation, two world wars, lost empire, high population on small land area, 1% currently farming, BSE, etc, and we get a clearer insight into the British psyche and why they oppose GM foods. All this history has made us more cautious than some. Anton Doroszenko (I am British, despite the name) > -----Original Message----- > From: Jane Sooby [SMTP:jane@ofrf.org] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 8:09 PM > To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: why British consumers oppose GM > > Dear Sanet, > > Reading a publication by the North American Fruit Explorers (NAFEX, "The > Handbook for Fruit Explorers," Ram Fishman, 1986), I found an interesting > insight that may explain the greater resistance to GM crops in Great > Britain than in the U.S.: > > As Europe emerged from the Dark Ages, the cloistered gardens of > monasteries > became models for the walled gardens of the High Middle Ages. By the time > of the Renaissance, gardening for beauty and pleasure had become a > widespread enthusiasm of the more affluent classes, and fruit culture > naturally benefited from this overall resurgence of horticultural > interest. > In many ways, this renaissance in gardening was inspired by the biblical > image of paradise as a fruit garden. The English in particular were > fascinated by the pious pleasure afforded the gardener skilled in the > culture of fruit trees. While we may appreciate the English > horticulturalist's inspiration to create a paradise imbued with sober > Christian values, *we must also recognize in the British character a more > earthly passion for plant life that goes back to the forest altars of > Druid > priests.* (p.9) > > ("emphasis" mine) > > > > > Jane Sooby > technical program coordinator > Organic Farming Research Foundation > P.O. Box 440 > Santa Cruz, CA 95061 > 831-426-6606 > 831-426-6670 fax > 831-460-9713 home > www.ofrf.org > jane@ofrf.org > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 10:34:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11343 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:34:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15815 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:32:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15746 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:32:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu ([157.182.7.97]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id JAA16200; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990810085617.006cae5c@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:56:17 -0400 To: "Julie" , "sanet-mg" From: John Lozier Subject: store eggs versus chicken eggs; was Re: Free roaming layers In-Reply-To: <002601bee041$e040ed00$744b2e9c@oemcomputer> References: <19990804224340852.AAA329@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.37]> <37A9FA02.FA55B1C8@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2120 When our son was little, we got some of those free-roaming eggs and he immediately noticed the yolks were orange, not the usual yellow. "What kind of eggs are these," he demanded. "Chicken eggs," we said. His response: "I want store eggs, not chicken eggs!" That was about 25 years ago, and it is now part of our family folklore. At 02:28 PM 8/6/99 -0500, Julie wrote: >Hi Bargyla, > >you wrote: > >(snip) I was shocked, after trying >> some free range chicken eggs there, that the yolks were pale >yellow-certainly >> those chickens never ate a green leaf. > >This is even better...some city folks we heard about threw out some eggs >with vivid orange yolks, thinking there was something WRONG with them. They >were so used to that pathetic tell-tale pale yellow, and didn't know any >better! Guess they'd flip over the pretty blue-green shells of Araucana >eggs! LOL! > >Actually a sad state of affairs that a mere generation or two has placed us >so far from our food supply...we don't even know what a darn egg yolk should >look like!! > >Julie > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Aug 9 19:44:30 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA26020 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26134 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:43:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26110; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27995; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21352; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 14:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.panups X-Conference: panna.panups From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Organic Crops Competitive To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 106 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2121 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Organic Crops Competitive with Conventional Systems August 9, 1999 Farm profits from organic cropping systems can equal or exceed profits from conventional rotations in the Midwestern United States, according to a new study by the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture. The report, The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States, reviews past and current research on conditions that make growing organic crops profitable, as well as studies that compare organic grain and soybean production with conventional production. There has been dramatic growth in the U.S. and worldwide in the production of and demand for organically produced food and fiber. At the same time, consumers around the world have been willing to pay premium prices for organic products. For example, farm prices for organic corn were on average 35% higher than U.S. cash prices for conventionally grown corn in 1995, 44% higher in 1996 and 73% higher in 1997. Prices for organic, cleaned Clear Hilum soybeans (the type used by the Japanese for tofu) were more than twice the U.S. cash price for conventionally grown soybeans in 1995 and 1997, and almost twice those levels in 1996. Nonetheless, the study found that premiums are not always necessary for organic systems to outperform conventional systems. To illustrate the potential profitability of organic agriculture, Rick Welsh of the Wallace Institute analyzed a diverse set of academic studies comparing organic and conventional grain cropping systems. Among the data reviewed were six land-grant university studies that compared organic and conventional grain cropping systems; studies were conducted in Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska and two in South Dakota. Following a comprehensive review of the "best science" available on the subject, Dr. Welsh determined that when organic systems were more profitable than conventional rotations, it was usually due to one or more of the following factors: * lower production costs; * higher net returns for crops grown in the organic rotations; and * drought hardiness, allowing higher performance in drier areas or during drier periods. In addition to these economic benefits, the report found that organic systems in the U.S. Midwest produce benefits for the natural environment and workers' health. The report's recommendations call for a greater U.S. public policy commitment to organic agriculture, especially in areas related to research, investment and education. Several European countries have already instituted policies that support organic farming. Denmark, for example, has enacted financial support policies, including information and marketing support and financial assistance during the transition to organic farming. Other countries with similar policies include Sweden, Germany, Norway, Finland, Austria and Switzerland. Efforts have paid off: the organic farming sector in these countries has increased dramatically since the programs were initiated. There has been some support for organic agriculture in the United States. In Iowa, for example, a state-level program supports organic farming through the Environmental Quality Incentive Program (EQIP) that provides targeted financial incentives to farmers. Administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, EQIP is designed to promote adoption of particular conservation management practices. EQIP is a federal-state cost-share program in which states designate a list of conservation management practices. If EQIP funding is increased and other state legislatures list certified organic production as a conservation practice, EQIP could play a significant role in increasing the number of acres farmed organically in the U.S. Copies of The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States are available for US$15 from the Wallace Institute. The report is also available online at the Institute's web site, http://www.hawiaa.org. Source: Henry A. Wallace Institute press release, June 4, 1999. The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States, Policy Studies Report No. 13, May 1999. Contact: The Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture, 9200 Edmonston Road, #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; phone (301) 441- 8777; fax (301) 220-0164; email hawiaa@access.digex.net; web site www.hawiaa.org. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Aug 10 05:29:49 1999 -0400 Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE (segate.sunet.se [192.36.125.6]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id FAA06057 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 05:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from segate.sunet.se (192.36.125.16) by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <15.94390F03@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:21:31 +0100 Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LISTSERV release 1.8d) with NJE id 505798 for ET-ANN@SEGATE.SUNET.SE; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:21:28 +0200 Received: from mb05.swip.net (193.12.122.209) by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <15.9254502B@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:21:28 +0100 Received: from d212-151-160-152.swipnet.se (d212-151-164-232.swipnet.se [212.151.164.232]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA12798 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:18:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by d212-151-160-152.swipnet.se with Microsoft Mail id <01BEE322.1A9F6700@d212-151-160-152.swipnet.se>; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:18:42 +0200 Encoding: 92 TEXT Approved-By: Jacky Foo Message-ID: <01BEE322.1A9F6700@d212-151-160-152.swipnet.se> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:16:38 +0200 Reply-To: Jacky Foo Sender: Ecotechnology Announcements From: Jacky Foo Subject: [ET-ANN] IBSnet Electronic Seminar - October 4-29, 1999 To: ET-ANN@SEGATE.SUNET.SE Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2122 The Integrated Bio-Systems Network and the Institute of Advanced Studies of the United Nations University (Tokyo) cordially invites you to join an electronic Seminar via Internet. TITLE: Community-Based Technologies for Domestic Wastewater Treatment and Reuse: options for urban agriculture DATE: 4-29 Oct. 1999 PRESENTED BY: Mr. Gregory Rose, School of Planning, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. http://www.fes.uwaterloo.ca/u/gdrose/ SPONSOR: Institute of Advanced Studies, United Nations University, Tokyo (http://www.ias.unu.edu) REGISTRATION: free of charge (a) send an email to listserv@segate.sunet.se and use the subscription command: SUB ET-W2 yourfirstname yourlastname, organization e.g. SUB ET-W2 Gregory Rose, U of Waterloo or (b) register via http://segate.sunet.se/archives/et-w2.html DISCUSSION PAPER: The discussion paper for the seminar is available at http://www.fes.uwaterloo.ca/u/gdrose/uetext.htm . If you dont have web access, you can request for a hardcopy of "CFP Report 27" (free of charge) from Jeff Pelletier or Brenda Lee Wilson at IDRC (note: please give 3-4 weeks for processing and airmail delivery). SUMMARY: The seminar is based on the IDRC report which comprises a literature review related to alternative options for managing human waste or "bio-waste" in the urban context. The aim of the report is to review recent developments in naturally-based wastewater TREATMENT, RECOVERY and REUSE options and to explore how alternative interventions could potentially contribute to the: i) provision of sanitation; ii) conservation/protection of fresh water resources; iii) improvement of soil integrity; and, iv) production of value-added products through linkages with URBAN AGRICULTURE. Overall, the report suggests that alternatives exist to highly capitalised and centralised biowaste treatment systems that are dependent on water-borne conveyance and electromechanical inputs for operation and maintenance. The report explores the concept of managing urban wastewater flows at zero and intermediate distances, based on urban micro-watersheds, and reviews several technological interventions that may act as key components of integrated bio-systems (IBS). The report is divided into two major sections. SECTION A is comprised of the problem background and reviews central themes associated with the management of bio-waste in an urban, developing world context. This section also suggests that zero-discharge systems are requisite to decreasing the environmental externals that accrue from community to city to ecosystem to biosphere when linear discharge options are favoured. SECTION B reviews selected treatment and recovery technologies that I have identified as noteworthy and potentially appropriate for treating and recovering bio-waste and facilitating its reuse at the local-level. AUTHOR: Mr. Gregory Rose (http://www.fes.uwaterloo.ca/u/gdrose/) is a Ph D student at the University of Waterloo in the Faculty of Environmental Studies (School of Planning). He has a MSc degree from Tulane University (School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine, New Orleans). His current Ph D research relates to "regenerative waste management" and concerns the selection and implementation of effective low-input technologies that can effectively promote the reuse of organic waste. In 1998-1999 he was the recipient of an IDRC (International Development Research Centre, Ottawa) "Centre Internship Award" with the Cities Feeding People Programme Initiative which enabled him to travel Asia and the Middle East and resulting in the report at http://www.idrc.ca/cfp/rep27_e.html. ++++++Additional Notices SPECIAL INVITATION: if you wish to present an electronic seminar, please contact Mr. Jacky Foo - IBSnet Coordinator . An electronic seminar normally lasts for 3-4 weeks. It is conducted as an Internet discussion over this mailing list (ET-W2@SEGATE.SUNET.SE http://segate.sunet.se/archives/et-w2.html) using a scientific paper or article or report (not published or published). The topic for the seminar should be related to integrated bio-systems that involve waste treatment and utilisation and its bio-conversion into value-added products. Please email/airmail a copy of the background material to the IBSnet Coordinator for a preliminary review. FORTHCOMING ACTIVITY: March-October, 2000: Internet Conference on Material Flow Analysis of Integrated Bio-Systems. http://www.ias.unu.edu/proceedings/icibs/ic-mfa ACKNOWLEDGEMENT: The IBSnet is sponsored by the Institute of Advanced Studies of the United Nations University, Tokyo. (http://www.ias.unu.edu) From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 10:56:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11721 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15479 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:32:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15474 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu ([157.182.7.97]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id JAA16208; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990810092045.006a6d94@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:20:45 -0400 To: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com>, Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com From: John Lozier Subject: Grassland versus lawns; was Re: Now's the Time to Say Good-bye to Your Lawn Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <199908071703_MC2-8015-EDBC@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2123 Bill, I think you are a bit harsh with lawns. My own lawn, which hasn't been fertilized in 30 years, is a diverse ecosystem of clovers, dandelions, mosses, and other things besides grass. Now under drought it is patchy brown and green, still nice to have. At times of normal moisture it is a beautiful mini-jungle, under an intermittent mowing management. I especially love to see clovers rampant in a lawn. A couple of years ago I had an early morning paper route and there was a new development where the contractor installed a uniform sod. Somehow, one of those places got infested with clover and it seemed like a miracle to me. I even contemplated the radical action of spreading clover seed as I made my early morning rounds. I didn't do it, though. On the lower-budget side of the development the contractor used sod that had been stored on a pallet for too long, so most of it was dead. He spread it anyway, relying upon the adaptability of grass to fill in the spaces. That would have been the best place to establish an alternative sward. Grassland is a beautiful thing. I caught the spell of grassland in the plains of Venezuela. But grassland in the proper sense is not a monoculture, it is a complex ecosystem akin to a miniature rain forest. Instead of dissing lawns, why not promote the beauty of a domestic grassland. Sincerely, John Lozier harper for harmony At 05:01 PM 8/7/99 -0400, BILL DUESING wrote: >Living on the Earth, July 30, 1999: Now's the Time to Say Good-bye to Your >Lawn > >This drought and heat wave are just the impetus you need to finally get rid >of your lawn. While most trees and shrubs are still fairly green, lawns >everywhere are brown and unsightly. We are at a turning point in the >reputation of an American icon. > snip To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 11:28:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12486 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28434 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:43:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28370 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu ([157.182.7.97]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id KAA17507; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990810103704.006d2184@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:37:04 -0400 To: "Webb, Kevin" , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" From: John Lozier Subject: charming and farming; was RE: Avery v. Salatin is online In-Reply-To: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB0B9711DE@umc-mail02.missou ri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2124 At 07:16 PM 8/9/99 -0500, Webb, Kevin wrote: > >Still the question to me remains: how do we as members of the sustainable ag >community educate the public at large in a way that is complete yet concise? Be a charmer. Despite all, people are still charmed when they encounter the farm and community life of old. This is a huge asset. Media can manipulate the image but they can't deliver the reality of personally meaningful old-time down-home farm and community life. They own the media, but we own our lives. Live your life. As a farmer, as a charmer. Be (t)here now. Drink deep and often at the source: visit the farms. Deliver to the people by direct marketing, csa's, farm markets, b&b's. Keep on keepin' on. I'd like to visit Dennis's farm, if he has one. I've visited Joel's farm. It is charming. Does that sound patronizing? WRONG!! John Lozier harper for (c)harmony To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 11:25:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12435 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26718 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26700 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990810143751.BBQ11128.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:37:51 -0700 Message-ID: <37B03A25.7FCC4991@home.com> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:41:41 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, GarlicBed@Mediaone.net Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1209 References: <199908100802.EAA26186@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2125 > > Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:24:14 -0000 > From: "Craig Gilbert" > Subject: Paulownia Trees from China > Some discussions on the Georgia Land Stewardship list have addressed = > this tree native to China with a deep tap root, pounds of leaves, and a = > life of some 10 years to have a viable timber product. ..... In San diego, californy....they sell a cultivar of "Empress Tree" Paulowinia tomentosa var "sumthinorother" at local home depot's. I have read that it already populates all 50 US States as well.its not new to the seen by any means. The tree grows like a weed, can be repeatedly harvested at 5 years w/ a caliper of foot or more.. sprouts from cut stumps like grass grows.... weight slightly heavier than wet balsawood..... doesnt change dimension w/ changes in humidity, mills easily(hello ,woodworkers?),,, lightweight Hardwood classification.... 6 dollars a board foot(if you can find it).... Traditionally used to construct a kind of dowry chest for Japanese marriage ceremony, supposedly thousands of years old use in Fareastern culture. I planted one three yrs ago..wow.At thirteen months, I pushed over the trunk and broke it to the ground...only eight feet high prior to my "trimming". It sprouted anew w/ four shoots(trimmed one off) Two shooots went past 22 feet after eight months, the third was 24 feet.....It loves fertile sandy deep soil w/ water ,,for this to occur.My tree is planted on a bank of fill dirt. Grrows very easily from root cuttings. Start a plantation and make wood moulding, or broker to Japan . bill evans To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 12:08:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA13636 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19141 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:18:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19117 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA10756; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:17:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2a-213.ix.netcom.com(209.110.252.213) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma010710; Tue Aug 10 10:16:36 1999 Message-ID: <015701bee27a$16cbe020$26fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "John Lozier" Cc: Subject: Re: Grassland versus lawns; was Re: Now's the Time to Say Good-bye to Your Lawn Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:15:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2126 John Thanks for writing this I have to agree with you. Our lawn is basically a patch of grass and weeds that gets mowed. We pretty much ignore it. This year trying to run a CSA and having a drought its really ignored. We live on a farm so we are also surrounded by pasture and wooded areas. All "maintained" by the cattle and horses. I like the way lawn and pasture look. But I do agree it should be chemical free, and precious water should never be used on it in times of drought. Actually we never water our lawn. John if you are every harping through the Northeast and want a roof over your head in Massachusetts zap me a note. Give me two weeks notice. Housework in on the bottom of my chores list! Beth >Bill, I think you are a bit harsh with lawns. My own lawn, which hasn't >been fertilized in 30 years, is a diverse ecosystem of clovers, dandelions, >mosses, and other things besides grass. Now under drought it is patchy >brown and green, still nice to have. At times of normal moisture it is a >beautiful mini-jungle, under an intermittent mowing management. > >I especially love to see clovers rampant in a lawn. A couple of years ago >I had an early morning paper route and there was a new development where >the contractor installed a uniform sod. Somehow, one of those places got >infested with clover and it seemed like a miracle to me. I even >contemplated the radical action of spreading clover seed as I made my early >morning rounds. I didn't do it, though. > >On the lower-budget side of the development the contractor used sod that >had been stored on a pallet for too long, so most of it was dead. He >spread it anyway, relying upon the adaptability of grass to fill in the >spaces. That would have been the best place to establish an alternative >sward. > >Grassland is a beautiful thing. I caught the spell of grassland in the >plains of Venezuela. But grassland in the proper sense is not a >monoculture, it is a complex ecosystem akin to a miniature rain forest. > >Instead of dissing lawns, why not promote the beauty of a domestic grassland. > >Sincerely, John Lozier >harper for harmony > >At 05:01 PM 8/7/99 -0400, BILL DUESING wrote: >>Living on the Earth, July 30, 1999: Now's the Time to Say Good-bye to Your >>Lawn >> >>This drought and heat wave are just the impetus you need to finally get rid >>of your lawn. While most trees and shrubs are still fairly green, lawns >>everywhere are brown and unsightly. We are at a turning point in the >>reputation of an American icon. >> >snip > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 12:28:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA14136 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01683 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:39:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01605 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA14097; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2a-213.ix.netcom.com(209.110.252.213) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013994; Tue Aug 10 10:37:40 1999 Message-ID: <016001bee27d$08a0d520$26fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "John Lozier" Subject: Re: charming and farming; was RE: Avery v. Salatin is online Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:37:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2127 John, Well I must agree with you again. We run a CSA on my husband's "homestead". The farm his father bought in '49. Previously it was a dairy farm, and has been a farm for 200+ years. It is 85 acres now I suppose in early 1700s it was most of the street and was sold off through the 1800s. I know part of the appeal of our CSA is the farm. Yes the "charming farm" not the real farm. Yes they get a glimpse of real farming, but they don't do the work so not really. But thats ok, we knew that. That is why our CSA is pick-up only we are providing food for stomach and eyes. I'd have to say just about everyone when they pickup says or looks at something other than their veggies. Oh what a nice breeze you have up here (we are on a hill with few houses to block the breeze), oh its so pretty, may I pat the horses. The kids like the chickens and feed them grass. One kid's mother told me her son is in love with us (he is only about 4), builds farms at home from toys. Say he likes the farm cause we so nice (Thanks), I told him two weeks ago he could name the 5 chickens, well his mother told me he has talked of nothing else and is giving it deep thought. I can't wait to see what names a 4 year old comes up with. I just found out one of my members has worked in environmental law, conservation stuff etc. And he said if ever I had a question about conservation etc he send me in the right direction. He brought it up, I believe because he knows this place is valuable for just being a farm. We are a bit of an oasis in an increasing Suburban area. Which of course is the double edge sword of CSA. Customers who do not have enough land (ok they could ditch the lawn), time or knowledge to garden, but have the finances to "chance" an odd marketing method. But there is not much farmy support around. Agways (farm store of past) are now pretty much garden centers with a token farm thing on shelf. No one can give any advice. So yes I agree, its one of the things I keep saying to the guys, "if we get people to love our farm they will help us protect it" I mean that in that if they are our customer that helps us stay sustainable. And in the future if we need "muscle" to help us remain open space we will have some spokes people. Thanks Beth >>Still the question to me remains: how do we as members of the sustainable ag >>community educate the public at large in a way that is complete yet concise? > >Be a charmer. Despite all, people are still charmed when they encounter >the farm and community life of old. This is a huge asset. Media can >manipulate the image but they can't deliver the reality of personally >meaningful old-time down-home farm and community life. They own the media, >but we own our lives. > >Live your life. As a farmer, as a charmer. Be (t)here now. Drink deep >and often at the source: visit the farms. Deliver to the people by direct >marketing, csa's, farm markets, b&b's. Keep on keepin' on. > >I'd like to visit Dennis's farm, if he has one. I've visited Joel's farm. >It is charming. Does that sound patronizing? WRONG!! > >John Lozier >harper for (c)harmony > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 12:33:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12486 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:28:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28434 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:43:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28370 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:43:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu ([157.182.7.97]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id KAA17507; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990810103704.006d2184@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlists@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:37:04 -0400 To: "Webb, Kevin" , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" From: John Lozier Subject: charming and farming; was RE: Avery v. Salatin is online In-Reply-To: <2DF3344FA15BD111B413006094516DFB0B9711DE@umc-mail02.missou ri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2128 At 07:16 PM 8/9/99 -0500, Webb, Kevin wrote: > >Still the question to me remains: how do we as members of the sustainable ag >community educate the public at large in a way that is complete yet concise? Be a charmer. Despite all, people are still charmed when they encounter the farm and community life of old. This is a huge asset. Media can manipulate the image but they can't deliver the reality of personally meaningful old-time down-home farm and community life. They own the media, but we own our lives. Live your life. As a farmer, as a charmer. Be (t)here now. Drink deep and often at the source: visit the farms. Deliver to the people by direct marketing, csa's, farm markets, b&b's. Keep on keepin' on. I'd like to visit Dennis's farm, if he has one. I've visited Joel's farm. It is charming. Does that sound patronizing? WRONG!! John Lozier harper for (c)harmony To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 12:33:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA12435 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26718 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26700 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990810143751.BBQ11128.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:37:51 -0700 Message-ID: <37B03A25.7FCC4991@home.com> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:41:41 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, GarlicBed@Mediaone.net Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1209 References: <199908100802.EAA26186@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2129 > > Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:24:14 -0000 > From: "Craig Gilbert" > Subject: Paulownia Trees from China > Some discussions on the Georgia Land Stewardship list have addressed = > this tree native to China with a deep tap root, pounds of leaves, and a = > life of some 10 years to have a viable timber product. ..... In San diego, californy....they sell a cultivar of "Empress Tree" Paulowinia tomentosa var "sumthinorother" at local home depot's. I have read that it already populates all 50 US States as well.its not new to the seen by any means. The tree grows like a weed, can be repeatedly harvested at 5 years w/ a caliper of foot or more.. sprouts from cut stumps like grass grows.... weight slightly heavier than wet balsawood..... doesnt change dimension w/ changes in humidity, mills easily(hello ,woodworkers?),,, lightweight Hardwood classification.... 6 dollars a board foot(if you can find it).... Traditionally used to construct a kind of dowry chest for Japanese marriage ceremony, supposedly thousands of years old use in Fareastern culture. I planted one three yrs ago..wow.At thirteen months, I pushed over the trunk and broke it to the ground...only eight feet high prior to my "trimming". It sprouted anew w/ four shoots(trimmed one off) Two shooots went past 22 feet after eight months, the third was 24 feet.....It loves fertile sandy deep soil w/ water ,,for this to occur.My tree is planted on a bank of fill dirt. Grrows very easily from root cuttings. Start a plantation and make wood moulding, or broker to Japan . bill evans To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 13:13:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15574 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00504 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f63.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.63]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00408 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55529 invoked by uid 0); 10 Aug 1999 16:21:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990810162158.55528.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.108.9.129 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:21:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.108.9.129] From: "Emily Young" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: charming and farming; was RE: Avery v. Salatin is online Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:21:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2130 Beth, You got me, I'm charmed! Will you let us know what he names the chickens? Cheers, Emily >From: "Dan Hook" >Reply-To: "Dan Hook" >To: , "John Lozier" >Subject: Re: charming and farming; was RE: Avery v. Salatin is online >Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:37:02 -0400 > > >John, Well I must agree with you again. We run a CSA on my husband's >"homestead". The farm his father bought in '49. Previously it was a dairy >farm, and has been a farm for 200+ years. It is 85 acres now I suppose in >early 1700s it was most of the street and was sold off through the 1800s. >I >know part of the appeal of our CSA is the farm. Yes the "charming farm" >not the real farm. Yes they get a glimpse of real farming, but they don't >do the work so not really. But thats ok, we knew that. That is why our >CSA >is pick-up only we are providing food for stomach and eyes. I'd have to >say >just about everyone when they pickup says or looks at something other than >their veggies. Oh what a nice breeze you have up here (we are on a hill >with few houses to block the breeze), oh its so pretty, may I pat the >horses. The kids like the chickens and feed them grass. One kid's mother >told me her son is in love with us (he is only about 4), builds farms at >home from toys. Say he likes the farm cause we so nice (Thanks), I told >him >two weeks ago he could name the 5 chickens, well his mother told me he has >talked of nothing else and is giving it deep thought. I can't wait to see >what names a 4 year old comes up with. I just found out one of my members >has worked in environmental law, conservation stuff etc. And he said if >ever I had a question about conservation etc he send me in the right >direction. He brought it up, I believe because he knows this place is >valuable for just being a farm. We are a bit of an oasis in an increasing >Suburban area. Which of course is the double edge sword of CSA. Customers >who do not have enough land (ok they could ditch the lawn), time or >knowledge to garden, but have the finances to "chance" an odd marketing >method. But there is not much farmy support around. Agways (farm store of >past) are now pretty much garden centers with a token farm thing on shelf. >No one can give any advice. So yes I agree, its one of the things I keep >saying to the guys, "if we get people to love our farm they will help us >protect it" I mean that in that if they are our customer that helps us >stay >sustainable. And in the future if we need "muscle" to help us remain open >space we will have some spokes people. Thanks Beth > >>Still the question to me remains: how do we as members of the >sustainable >ag > >>community educate the public at large in a way that is complete yet >concise? > > > >Be a charmer. Despite all, people are still charmed when they encounter > >the farm and community life of old. This is a huge asset. Media can > >manipulate the image but they can't deliver the reality of personally > >meaningful old-time down-home farm and community life. They own the >media, > >but we own our lives. > > > >Live your life. As a farmer, as a charmer. Be (t)here now. Drink deep > >and often at the source: visit the farms. Deliver to the people by >direct > >marketing, csa's, farm markets, b&b's. Keep on keepin' on. > > > >I'd like to visit Dennis's farm, if he has one. I've visited Joel's >farm. > >It is charming. Does that sound patronizing? WRONG!! > > > >John Lozier > >harper for (c)harmony > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 13:17:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA15740 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02849 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:29:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02784 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:33:33 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'spiritus@uninets.net'" Subject: FW: small scale grain thresher? Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:33:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2131 Can anyone help? Pease reply to Bruce at spiritus@uninets.net (he is not on sanet, so will not receive replies to sanet). Bruce Walker Bioregional Conservancy & Reclamation Trust P. O. Box 777 Unity, ME 04988 Tel/fax: 1 207 568 3139 -----Original Message----- From: spiritus [mailto:spiritus@uninets.net] Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 4:15 PM To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu Subject: small scale grain thresher? Hi, I'm with the Bioregional Conservancy and Reclamation Trust in central Maine. We are developing an intergated sustainable model farm system with eventual related cottage industries, ie bakery. I am looking for threshing equipment suitable for small acreage, and have a few acres of winter rye to harvest right now. Do you know of such, even stationary units, even human powered? Do you know of plans for same? What is used in 3rd world countries to mechanically thresh grains? We have many small fields, 15-20 acres that need to be better used or they will grow back to woods. Help if you can! Thanks a million Bruce Walker Bioregional Conservancy & Reclamation Trust P. O. Box 777 Unity, ME 04988 Tel/fax: 1 207 568 3139 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 15:00:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA19526 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05330 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:08:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA05310 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990810180703.13970.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:07:03 PDT Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:07:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: maggots To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2132 good afternoon SANETeers, i've a compost question. thanks to the helpful hints from others on the list, i located and purchased a small, urban-sized composter for my little yard in Philadelphia. the compost seems to be doing well. but now i noticed this morning as i opened the lid to peer in that there are hundreds of maggots (i quess that's what they are) eating the grapes and tomatoes that i tossed in the past few days. the surface was boiling with them. Eeeek. i thought the years growing up on the farm had cured me of a squeemish stomach, but this made me a bit sick. i know the advice was to mush everything up before it went into the composter, but i haven't been doing that. should i worry about all these squirming things? have a safe and peaceful solar eclipse, kate _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 15:54:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21958 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03375 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:03:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03268 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA16053; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:01:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2a-122.ix.netcom.com(209.110.252.122) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma015981; Tue Aug 10 14:01:18 1999 Message-ID: <000a01bee299$6bbd6300$7afc6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Emily Young" , Subject: Re: charming and farming; was RE: Avery v. Salatin is online Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:00:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2133 Ok! >Beth, > >You got me, I'm charmed! Will you let us know what he names the chickens? > >Cheers, > >Emily > > > >>From: "Dan Hook" >>Reply-To: "Dan Hook" >>To: , "John Lozier" >>Subject: Re: charming and farming; was RE: Avery v. Salatin is online >>Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:37:02 -0400 >> >> >>John, Well I must agree with you again. We run a CSA on my husband's >>"homestead". The farm his father bought in '49. Previously it was a dairy >>farm, and has been a farm for 200+ years. It is 85 acres now I suppose in >>early 1700s it was most of the street and was sold off through the 1800s. >>I >>know part of the appeal of our CSA is the farm. Yes the "charming farm" >>not the real farm. Yes they get a glimpse of real farming, but they don't >>do the work so not really. But thats ok, we knew that. That is why our >>CSA >>is pick-up only we are providing food for stomach and eyes. I'd have to >>say >>just about everyone when they pickup says or looks at something other than >>their veggies. Oh what a nice breeze you have up here (we are on a hill >>with few houses to block the breeze), oh its so pretty, may I pat the >>horses. The kids like the chickens and feed them grass. One kid's mother >>told me her son is in love with us (he is only about 4), builds farms at >>home from toys. Say he likes the farm cause we so nice (Thanks), I told >>him >>two weeks ago he could name the 5 chickens, well his mother told me he has >>talked of nothing else and is giving it deep thought. I can't wait to see >>what names a 4 year old comes up with. I just found out one of my members >>has worked in environmental law, conservation stuff etc. And he said if >>ever I had a question about conservation etc he send me in the right >>direction. He brought it up, I believe because he knows this place is >>valuable for just being a farm. We are a bit of an oasis in an increasing >>Suburban area. Which of course is the double edge sword of CSA. Customers >>who do not have enough land (ok they could ditch the lawn), time or >>knowledge to garden, but have the finances to "chance" an odd marketing >>method. But there is not much farmy support around. Agways (farm store of >>past) are now pretty much garden centers with a token farm thing on shelf. >>No one can give any advice. So yes I agree, its one of the things I keep >>saying to the guys, "if we get people to love our farm they will help us >>protect it" I mean that in that if they are our customer that helps us >>stay >>sustainable. And in the future if we need "muscle" to help us remain open >>space we will have some spokes people. Thanks Beth >> >>Still the question to me remains: how do we as members of the >>sustainable >>ag >> >>community educate the public at large in a way that is complete yet >>concise? >> > >> >Be a charmer. Despite all, people are still charmed when they encounter >> >the farm and community life of old. This is a huge asset. Media can >> >manipulate the image but they can't deliver the reality of personally >> >meaningful old-time down-home farm and community life. They own the >>media, >> >but we own our lives. >> > >> >Live your life. As a farmer, as a charmer. Be (t)here now. Drink deep >> >and often at the source: visit the farms. Deliver to the people by >>direct >> >marketing, csa's, farm markets, b&b's. Keep on keepin' on. >> > >> >I'd like to visit Dennis's farm, if he has one. I've visited Joel's >>farm. >> >It is charming. Does that sound patronizing? WRONG!! >> > >> >John Lozier >> >harper for (c)harmony >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the >>command >> >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 15:55:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA21999 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:55:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05935 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05873 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA20089 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA17669 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:04:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: small scale grain thresher? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2134 Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/tools http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Andy Clark wrote: > Subject: FW: small scale grain thresher? > -----Original Message----- > From: spiritus [mailto:spiritus@uninets.net] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 4:15 PM > To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu > Subject: small scale grain thresher? > I'm with the Bioregional Conservancy and Reclamation Trust in central > Maine. We are developing an intergated sustainable model farm system with > eventual related cottage industries, ie bakery. I am looking for threshing > equipment suitable for small acreage, and have a few acres of winter rye to > harvest right now. Do you know of such, even stationary units, even human > powered? Do you know of plans for same? What is used in 3rd world > countries to mechanically thresh grains? We have many small fields, 15-20 > acres that need to be better used or they will grow back to woods. Help if Maybe others can post their responses here so we can all benefit. In this book: "Food and Life" by Gerald Ames & Rose Wyler "Creative Science Series" Pub. 1966 by Creative Educational Society, Inc. Mankato, Minnesota in cooperation with the Museum of Natural History, NYC Library of Congress card number: 65-27828 On page 81 is a photograph of a threshing machine (shown threshing rice) Caption: "Threshing rice by machine at a research center in the Phillipines" Preceeding page: " ... In the Phillipines, special threshing machines are being tried out with the help of the Rockefeller and Ford Foundations (opposite)." The machine depicted seems the ideal thresher for a small farm. Dimensions might be 28-30" wide X 52" long X 90" tall. It is manually fed through a hopper at the top; chaff goes out through aduct in fromt, cant's make out where grain exits. It is operated in stationary position, is mounted on two wheels under frame with trailer tongue & hitch (can see this in photo). I'll bet some of these are still around on farms or research stations. Newer models are probably pricey, if available. I have a fine roller mill for pulverizing grain for livestock feed, its a "Feedlot" brand made by Roskamp Mfg. Co., Cedar Falls, Iowa. Very heavily built, easy to adjust fineness of grind and is powered by a 1-2 hp electric motor. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 16:46:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA23805 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00474 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:44:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00464 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:44:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:47:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: FW: small scale grain thresher? Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:47:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2135 A request to post this information to sanet, too. -----Original Message----- From: Matt Arant [mailto:matthew-arant@uiowa.edu] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 1:38 PM To: Andy Clark Subject: Re: FW: small scale grain thresher? >Can anyone help? > >Please reply to Bruce at spiritus@uninets.net (he is not on sanet, so will >not receive replies to sanet). If anyone knows of such threshers, could they also post the info to the list, please? Thanks : ) >Hi, >I'm with the Bioregional Conservancy and Reclamation Trust in central >Maine. We are developing an intergated sustainable model farm system with >eventual related cottage industries, ie bakery. I am looking for threshing >equipment suitable for small acreage, and have a few acres of winter rye to >harvest right now. Do you know of such, even stationary units, even human >powered? Do you know of plans for same? What is used in 3rd world >countries to mechanically thresh grains? We have many small fields, 15-20 >acres that need to be better used or they will grow back to woods. Help if >you can! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 18:27:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26013 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:27:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05638 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:28:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05628 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp46.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.146]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA12980 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:24:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <004801bee377$3ff6b9e0$924b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: References: <199908100802.EAA26186@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37B03A25.7FCC4991@home.com> Subject: Empress Tree Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:28:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2136 Bill, you wrote: re: "Empress Tree" > I have read that it already populates all 50 US States as well.its not > new to the seen by any means. I wanted to line our gravel road with these trees once, reading that they made a beautiful weepy-sort of spring floral display, but read later that they could not tolerate Wisconsin types of winters? Do you know about it's cold tolerance? Thanks, Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 18:38:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26314 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15905 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:43:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ultra.unicomp.net (mail.unicomp.net [209.41.64.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15894 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unicomp.net (209-41-109-159.dal.dialup.unicomp.net [209.41.109.159]) by ultra.unicomp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16053 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:43:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37B09C5C.132A80AA@unicomp.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:40:44 -0500 From: magedson Reply-To: magedson@unicomp.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Grain Combine - small Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2137 Sanet-ers, Does anyone have a source on small grain combines ? I'm not refering to a thresher! McCormick used to make one. I have heard there are some that you can pull behind a tractor. We have a CSA and raise chickens and sheep. A small harvester is needed for about 20 acres of wheat, mung beans, etc. Thanks for any help, Lynn Magedson Good Earth Organic Farm Celeste Texas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 18:48:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26523 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26284 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:59:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26269 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-44.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.188]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA25656 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:50:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199908102150.QAA25656@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: Subject: Avery Vs. Salatin - two answers say it all! Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:58:03 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2138 Unlike my husband, I DID read through the whole Avery/Salatin debate! The responses to one question pretty much summed up the whole debate for me. The host, Jeff Ishee asked how Dennis and Joel felt about their sons following in their footsteps. Here are the responses: Avery: Oh, it makes me feel a little nervous, because we don't get paid very well for what we do in this field, and I'm concerned that he'll be able to build the kind of career that his brain power and energy ought to let him have. Salatin: For my part, I really can't talk about it without getting choked up. It's the blessing of anything that we have created in agricultural paradigms on our farm, and that's romancing the next generation into it. And that, to me, is the ultimate sustainability. Now, doesn't this illustrate the difference in the priorities of these two men? Avery might be a smooth talker, but I give more credit to someone who speaks from his heart like Salatin does. Lei Gunthorp Pasture hog farmer's wife LaGrange, Indiana To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 18:57:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA26630 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29820 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:06:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29759 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.140] (br-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.140]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15798; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908102205.PAA15798@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:08:25 -0700 Subject: FW: Celebrating 20 Years of ARS Research Station From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , NAFEX List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2139 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Celebrating 20 Years of ARS Research Station Date: Tue, Aug 10, 1999, 11:17 AM NEWS RELEASE: Senator Byrd Plants Bluebyrd Plum Celebrating 20 Years of ARS Research Station ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Judy McBride, (301) 504-1628, jmcbride@asrr.arsusda.gov August 10, 1999 ----------- KEARNEYSVILLE, W.Va., Aug. 10--U.S. Senator Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia today planted a plum tree named in his honor at the Appalachian Fruit Research Station here in celebration of the station's 20th anniversary. In 1979, Senator Byrd dedicated the 500-acre research facility operated by the Agricultural Research Service, the chief research agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. "Senator Byrd has been a staunch supporter of the research conducted at Kearneysville," ARS Administrator Floyd P. Horn said at the planting ceremony. "It was with this in mind that Ralph Scorza, the ARS horticulturist who released the new plum, named it Bluebyrd." "Scientists at this laboratory strive to develop the science, technology and genetic base that will produce more and better fruit crops while minimizing disruptions of the ecosystem," Horn continued. "With this new plum tree, we're giving consumers a new, sweet-tasting plum. We're also giving growers a high-quality, consistently high-producing European-type plum for the mid-Atlantic and other fruit growing regions of the United States." Bluebyrd is available in nurseries for the first time this year. Released in 1998, Bluebyrd has been successfully tested under cold winter conditions in Kearneysville and in Geneva, N.Y. First selected and tested in 1968 at ARS' Beltsville (Md.) Agricultural Research Center, Bluebyrd ripens during the first week of September at Kearneysville. With deep purple skin and amber colored fruit, this plum consistently produces heavy crops when cross-pollinated. The plums are sweet and flavorful, and the hardy trees resist diseases. Other fruits developed by the Kearneysville researchers include two peaches, two pears and a nectarine, station director Dariusz Swietlik said. Kearneysville researchers also developed particle film technology, a non-toxic alternative to pesticides, which protects apples, pears and peaches from some insects and diseases while improving fruit yield and quality. In addition, discoveries of station researchers have been turned into two commercial products to control diseases naturally on fruit after harvest: Aspire, a yeast-based product, and Biosave 110, a bacteria-based product. The researchers have found other alternatives for protecting fruit trees from pest insects and mites, including non-toxic sugar esters, beneficial insects and flowering cover crops to attract beneficial insects to the orchard. They also developed a mathematical model to predict the occurrence and appropriate control measures for fire blight, a devastating disease of apple and pear trees worldwide. Engineering research at Kearneysville has produced a prototype for an automatic apple inspection system and mechanical harvesters for blueberries, blackberries, raspberries and oranges. The scientists also developed new culture systems for growing strawberries in a soil-less medium or in hydroponics for higher economic return. Other developments at Kearneysville include a hydroponic system to produce lettuce, basil and other horticultural crops in aquaculture waste water. This not only provides nutrients for the plants, but also removes pollutants from the waste water, which can be safely returned to the environment. ---------- Scientific contacts: Ralph Scorza or Dariusz Swietlik, ARS Appalachian Fruit Research Station, Kearneysville, WVa.; phone (304) 725-3451 X-322 (Scorza), X-326 (Swietlik); fax (304) 728-2340; rscorza@afrs.ars.usda.gov, dswietlik@afrs.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 19:50:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA27653 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:50:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06252 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:55:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06144 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by mail.crl.com (8.8.8/) via SMTP id PAA08209; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:55:06 -0700 (PDT) env-from (toma@crl.com) Received: by crl.crl.com id AA21065 (5.65c/IDA-1.5); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:42:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:42:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Armstrong To: magedson Cc: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Grain Combine - small In-Reply-To: <37B09C5C.132A80AA@unicomp.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2140 On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, magedson wrote: > Sanet-ers, > > Does anyone have a source on small grain combines ? I'm not refering to > a thresher! > McCormick used to make one. I have heard there are some that you can > pull behind a > tractor. All of the american farm equipment companies built these back in the 30's and 40's. There were many sold. A lot of these are still stored in barns and sheds. They are of some interest to tractor colectors, most of whom live on small farms and use them. They are usually sold for only a few hundred dollars because they are hard to move long distances and must have a shed to live in or they deteriorate. Owning one and keeping it running is a commitment The Allis Chalmers Model 66 was a popular machine: http://www.apocalypse.org/~jbvb/faf/ac_66.html I suggest you look around in your area, maybe run a wanted ad in a few papers. Tom Armstrong toma@crl.com Sequera Ranch s.1892 San Gregorio, CA Barnyard Technology--- Ideas for tomorrow -> from yesterday's scrap. 4th -> 5(+6)th gen. on family farm. Can Ag Sustain? A ghost town stays the same: http://www.crl.com/~toma/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 21:33:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA29607 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19585 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:46:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19563 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id TAA23832; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:45:27 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma023661; Tue, 10 Aug 99 19:44:27 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:44:27 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE8E@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'magedson@unicomp.net'" , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: Grain Combine - small Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:44:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2141 Lynn, > We have a CSA and raise chickens and sheep. A small harvester > is needed for about 20 acres of wheat, mung beans, etc. Why not just have it done custom? Wouldn't that be cheaper? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 23:00:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08378 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19002 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (root@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18267; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA29714; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29710; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:10:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac6.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:10:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Brooks Gruver To: magedson cc: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Grain Combine - small In-Reply-To: <37B09C5C.132A80AA@unicomp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2142 Hello to all, For feeding ruminants or chickens, why not bale up the grain, stem seed heads and all...then let the animals sort through it. I have read that this has been done with good results... I think i also read that putting the bales through a hammer mill will significantly improve the digestibility of baled grains for some types of livestock. Joel Gruver To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 23:00:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08382 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24688 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:22:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24639 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:22:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990811022152.JVAW16727.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:21:52 -0700 Message-ID: <37B0DF34.73B54DB9@home.com> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:25:56 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, marq@mwt.net Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1211 References: <199908102210.SAA04406@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2143 Julie, I would assume that if the root zone was mulched heavily that it would sprout anew each year. Top growth w/ definately die back, but the roots are another story. I think tree is hardy to 20 below...China can be a cold place too. Try one tree next spring so it will have a good long seasonto establish. If it sprouts the following year, just take root cuttings and go for it. bill evans > > I wanted to line our gravel road with these trees once, reading that they > made a beautiful weepy-sort of spring floral display, To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 23:00:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08394 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25922 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:24:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25780 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:24:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Bagelhole1@aol.com Received: from Bagelhole1@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7DGZa14818 (4565) for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <799478e7.24e2387d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:22:53 EDT Subject: maggots, um yummy To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2144 In a message dated 8/11/99 12:00:38 AM, owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu writes: <> We were thinking of growing maggots for food, dry them and grind them up. Insects, the food for the next millenium. Join the leading edge. Tom O http://bagelhole.hypermart.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 23:10:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA08472 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02640 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02570 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07847 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA24615 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:33:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:33:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Grain Combine - small In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE8E@vela.phibred.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2145 I found this harvesting equipment refernce on the Web; have no idea what it is. Hort Imports (Raccomobile) Box 184 Yorkton, Saskatchewan S3N 2V7 Canada (306) 786-6663 North American source of the Raccomobile featured in the "Foreign Exchange" article in Organic Gardening about Eliot Coleman's tour of European organic farms. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 10 23:30:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA09257 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16065 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:54:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16045 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp17.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.117]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA23579 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:49:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <006a01bee3a4$b04053a0$754b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: References: <199908102210.SAA04406@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37B0DF34.73B54DB9@home.com> Subject: Chem/GE trespass law Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:53:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2146 Can anyone direct me to federal or state statute or caselaw (website maybe?) regarding chemical/GE trespass by a conventional farm to a neighboring organic farm? We are currently approaching our township, as they seem to be pretty indiscriminate about cutting back shrubbery, trees, etc. along roadsides that act as buffer zones between our farm & conventional neighbors. I understand that there is law that exists which makes the farmer responsible to keep his inputs ON HIS OWN FARM, and liable for loss of certification status & market of a neighbors crop should contamination occur, but need concrete citations. I've asked for the township's assistance to keep these "fences" in tact as much as possible, without, creating road hazards of course. I also understand there is an organic agriculture law institute in Rosemont, PA, who I've contacted & am waiting to receive response. Any other thoughts most welcome. Thanks for your help, Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 00:45:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA10770 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02492 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:58:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02423 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.24] (gl-ppp04.hevanet.com [204.119.60.24]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA04375 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908110357.UAA04375@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:01:02 -0700 Subject: Book Review From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2147 I've had two people ask to see my review of Michael Phillips' book on organic apple growing, but I can only find one in my inbox. If you asked and didn't get a copy, let me know. -Lon Rombough Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 00:57:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA10851 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09839 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:11:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ultra.unicomp.net (mail.unicomp.net [209.41.64.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09771 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unicomp.net (209-41-109-80.dal.dialup.unicomp.net [209.41.109.80]) by ultra.unicomp.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA14404 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:11:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37B0F753.BAB55DE0@unicomp.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:08:52 -0500 From: magedson Reply-To: magedson@unicomp.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Grain Combine - small References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FE8E@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2148 Dale, Tried that. The farmers in the area will harvest mine after they do their own fields. This year all the rye was down by the time they got around to mine. Hiring out the combining was our first choice - until we got burned 2 years in a row. We have had better luck with our hay - but the hay guy does not do any combining. Lynn Wilson, Dale wrote: > Lynn, > > > We have a CSA and raise chickens and sheep. A small harvester > > is needed for about 20 acres of wheat, mung beans, etc. > > Why not just have it done custom? Wouldn't that be cheaper? > > Dale > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 01:08:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA10982 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA22092 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moose.uvm.edu (moose.uvm.edu [132.198.101.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21986 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from okapi.uvm.edu (okapi.uvm.edu [132.198.101.80]) by moose.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA38276 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:29:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (tmarcott@localhost) by okapi.uvm.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29728 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:29:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: okapi.uvm.edu: tmarcott owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:29:11 -0400 (EDT) From: ^cancel X-Sender: tmarcott@okapi.uvm.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Internship Opportunity in VT Message-ID: Organization: University of Vermont MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2149 Hello All, Please circulate the following. I am also interested in other sites that may be good places to post the Internship Opportunity that follows. Thank you, Travis Marcotte Application Deadline: October 1, 1999 Yellow Wood Associates, Inc. a nationally recognized consulting firm specializing in rural community economic development, is offering a two year paid internship to the right individual. To qualify, you must have a Master's Degree or be a Master's Candidate in Rural Development, Agriculture Economics, Rural Sociology, Applied Economics, Natural Resource Management/Planning, Community Development, Environmental Studies, or equivalent, a strong interest in rural development in the United States, a solid background in economics, and some previous work experience, and be willing to commit to a two year position. The position offers opportunities to develop skills in research, project management, marketing, facilitation, and training; work on a diverse array of projects on the cutting edge of rural development; develop a deeper understanding of rural communities, economies, and natural resource sectors; and be exposed to new and emerging ideas in rural development. Potential for career advancement. Stipend: $23,000 a year plus health benefits. To learn more about Yellow Wood Associates, visit our website at http://www.together.net/~yellow. For more information and a complete description of responsibilities, desirable qualifications, and skills, please contact Frances Young at Yellow Wood Associates, Inc., 95 South Main Street, St. Albans, VT, 802-524-6141, email: yellow2@together.net. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 02:19:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id CAA12502 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29419 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:32:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29382 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.1.3] (ppp-206-170-1-3.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.1.3]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24325 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:31:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990810180703.13970.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> References: <19990810180703.13970.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:29:39 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: maggots Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2150 Howdy, all-- Well, since I went ballistic on the need to control RATS in big-city compost heaps, I feel some compunction to respond to this one. :^) It's funny, but as soon as I saw the "Subject" line of this message and who it was from, I thought, "She's got em in her new composter." :^D >the compost seems to be doing well. but now i noticed this >morning as i opened the lid to peer in that there are >hundreds of maggots (i quess that's what they are) eating >the grapes and tomatoes that i tossed in the past few days. > the surface was boiling with them. Eeeek. i thought the >years growing up on the farm had cured me of a squeemish >stomach, but this made me a bit sick. White, squirming, about the size of a grain of rice, and, yes, "boiling." Sounds like some fly's larvae to me. Which is what maggots are. I've got goosebumps on my legs just thinking about it. Talk about ancient genetic memory. And no amount of experience can take it away. It's just there. >i know the advice was to mush everything up before it went >into the composter, but i haven't been doing that. should >i worry about all these squirming things? Only if you mind playing host to flies. OK, ready? Are you eating? Stop, or come back later to read this. Common house flies lay their eggs on rotting material--up to 100 per brood. These hatch out into maggots, which feed on the place they've hatched till they can become grown up flies. A fly can carry four million microbes that cause hepatitis, salmonella, dysentery, typhoid, cholera, tapeworm, hookworm, and more. Flies are major disease vectors in many parts of the world. They have sticky-pads on their feet (kinda like post-its), that let them walk surfaces at any angle. The glue picks up microbes and other substances from anything they land on. But here's more joy: they taste thru their feet. So they walk on everything to check it out. Kate's organic compost is the least of our worries. The fly that has just checked out (and tested the palatability of) the dog droppings on the lawn or the puddle of in the alley, and laid its eggs there to hatch and feast--well, you get my point--it goes on to check out and test the palatability of, say, your sandwich. Your drinking glass. Your apple. Or your organic compost for that matter. And just think: our high-chemical-control-inclined sistren and brethren, who spray the dickens out of fly-intensive places, give the resistant SuperFlies (no Richard Roundtree jokes, please) an opportunity to distribute those pesticides around with their busy little bodies. Here's more Fun Fly Facts that David Cronenberg didn't have to make up. They sponge their food up with a proboscis. But what about solid food, you ask. Easily taken care of: the fly regurgitates its saliva onto the food to liquefy it. Can you imagine what's in that drool? And, yes, they leave residues of that stuff around between meals. As well as their own droppings (flyspecks). A fly generation runs about a month, but in the course of a summer, a single fly can produce up to a dozen broods. Litters. Or whatever you'd call a mingle of maggots. And these are just plain old common house flies, the black ones. Green and blue bottle flies look for carrion. Then there are horseflies, and stable flies, which can bite thru fabric and leather (after all, horses wear horsehide). Mosquitoes, whom we all know well. Gnats and midges. All blood-suckers. But your maggots, Kate, in my experience of that part of the world, are probably houseflies and some bottle flies perhaps. First of all, trust your evolutionary revulsion and destroy the things. Scrape them off into a pail of scalding hot soapy water, with whatever words of karmic apology you consider called for, and Do Them In. I always liked the prayer that Russell Hoban had one of his characters utter in the novel /Riddley Walker/ during a boar hunt: "Your turn now, my turn later." The world doesn't need more flies. Or maggots. Or flies. Or maggots. Or--you get the picture. Next, when you add things to your compost, tuck them into the top third or so of what's there; this is easier as your heap gets fuller. Or if you compost grass clippings, leaves, shredded paper, etc., that can tuck the food wastes in. But flies in my experience are not drawn to composters as readily if wet and rotting foods aren't exposed. They beam in on the smell of putrefaction. This won't stop the flies from trying, but it may cut down on the number of those who do. I've learned thru various urban gardeners the trick of planting mint around the composter. Flies don't like mint. The next trick is to keep the mint from taking over your neighborhood, but you already know about that. Other things folks have planted near the composter: basil, tansy, marigolds, and suchlike scented herbs. Someone once suggested putting the composter next to the herb garden, but I wouldn't do that--I wouldn't want to encourage flies in stopping near the composter and landing on the herbs. I've also known folks who've used traditional herbal fly repellants around their composters, like pennyroyal, camphor, eucalyptus, or bay--hanging bruised leaves in clusters or applying dabs of oil to the outside of the composter. Also, encourage biodiversity: ants, frogs, toads, spiders, snakes, and birds will feast on maggots. You *could* try laying open the composter and seeing who comes to tidy up...but the maggots could just tuck away where they're not seen. I would think that a pet toad or snake would be a great idea. A garden-living pet, that is. Give them a down-low garden light near the composter, turn it on a few hours a night to provide a nice supply of bugs...but now I'm digressing into urban wild habitat.... If you find that flies are entirely out of control, you can put screen around your composter (I once ended up lining a compost bin with hardware cloth to control bees and flies). I personally think setting fly traps out (bottle traps baited with food or pheromone lures) is a good idea. People controlling flies in livestock areas have resorted to many, and sometimes desperate, measures. Some--like electric zappers, biological controls, flypaper, and pheromone traps--are environmentally more benign than others--like "no pest" strips, sprays, and ear tags. But if you've ever grappled with a dense hoard of flies in the summer--biting ones or not--you can understand why people were so excited about DDT when it came out. The knockdown-kill effect must have been stunning for folks to witness. Don't get me wrong: flies are recyclers, and maggots clean up a lot of stuff that we humans leave behind, etc. But like many city creatures (including humans), they have concentrated to the point where living with them is not only unpleasant, it can be dangerous. It's a tenuous balance we humans expect of nature in the very cities we've built to be colonies for a limited number of species. Without the usual checks and balances in place, you may have to assert control while working to increase biodiversity. Making cities more sustainable is big work. I can post some resources Friday if folks are interested. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Half of this game is ninety percent mental. --former Philadelphia Phillies manager Danny Ozark To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 03:28:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA13895 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA19145 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:45:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19115 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA13210 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:45:25 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20712 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:45:14 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 11 Aug 99 08:39:20 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 11 Aug 99 08:39:01 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:38:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Old ag publications and the cost of memory Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <9F04B6200C9@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2151 hello misha, >1) Many land grant college of ag libraries have large holdings of >these old publications; maybe someone would be willing to initiate the "project gutenberg of agriculture" what about looking around in utah (perhaps at the amish or the hutterers?). of course we would not expect them to publish it in electronic form on the internet (they have no modems by punishment). but they should have large and well-sorted libraries of agricultural practises.... you know that in ancient times there existed so-called "books" (i myself remember having seen some with my own eyes and even had the luck to once hold one of them in my hands) ? these were so to speak big "files", which were collected on special themes and then printed as a "book" with a table of contents on the first or last page ("links") and some side with literature ("URL's"). the content was in text AND in graphics ("full multimedia"). and since the sumerian empire there was a friendly and knowledgable caste of priests ("web designers"), which were called "librarians" and which catalogued them (the "database system") in stacks ("subdirectories") and kept them in large numbers and in almost every city ("portal") available for everyone with minimum "provider fees". here in old germany these public mailboxes in ancient times used to be called "libraries". there even were a few people, who had such "books" at home, because everyone could "download" them in "bookshops" and some even owned a few of such precious diamonds. i have a friend, who owns a whole 17 of them (you would expect it, he's a professor!). biggest advantage: you can even read ("browse") them to your girl-friend ("filesharing") or lying in a meadow or sitting on the toilet seat ("offline-reading") without a hand-held ... which means: people should get their *sses out of their chairs before the computer ;-)) nobody can be so amusingly arrogant as a young man who has just discovered an old idea and thinks it is his own. - sydney j. harris klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 03:30:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA13905 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA18757 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:41:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18717 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA13186 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:42:18 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20627 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:41:45 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 11 Aug 99 08:36:22 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 11 Aug 99 08:35:48 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:35:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Three Food Articles... Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <9F03DAC7164@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2152 >Three Food Articles in Today's Boston Globe >3. Vitamin A derivative is added to rice this is certainly a useful idea.. >On the horizon, said Potrykus, is genetically modified rice with >twice the amount of iron. Iron deficiency anemia, the most common >nutritional disorder in the world, affects nearly 2 billion people, [..] >capabilities. Between 40 and 50 percent of children under 5 in >developing countries are iron deficient. To double the iron >content in the rice, researchers added a ferritin gene derived from >a French bean. while that isn't, but just a perfect example, why initially we should distrust such ways of "improvement" of nutrition. it is known for at least 20 years, that iron (or better its absence or low rates in blood) plays an important part in the body's defence mechanism against bacteria. there are a lot of research papers (not just a few), which clearly show, that well-meant supplementation of iron (and especially supplementation among malnutrient african people in hot climates with high risks of epidemics spreading) leads to a highly !! increased (about 80-90%) infection rate among the supplemented people. the same with your black "top gunners", which the usaf set off from their planes because of the risk of oxygen deficiency. put your fighting crews to a country with malaria and you will see, that you made a big error with setting them off their flying job;- ))). oxygen deficiency is nature's heterocygots answer to malaria... nature itsself shows the way to avoid such infections. you know, that an egg as a whole contains high levels of free iron. BUT: only in the egg yolk, not in the albumen. in the white of the egg iron is strongly bound to conalbumin. so any bacteria (which for growth highly depend on enough free iron) invading the eggshell will lack this essential nutrient and will starve and thus not multiply. human breast milk contains 20% lactoferrin, also strongly binding free iron (in contrast to cows's milk with 2%). that's one of the most important reasons, why breastfed children get less infections that bottle-fed ones. lactoferrin is also found in high concentrations in wound regions, in tears and saliva. what does these findings tell you ? and the researchers, who found conalbumin, predicted, that there must be a similar molecule for binding iron. yep, it was sound found: transferrin !! transferrin is binding iron VERY strongly and is only donating it to cells with a special marker. guess why ? NO bacteria DO have that marker ! now comes the tricky part. people with a lack of iron also have only about 20-10% of the normal transferrin serum levels. if you offer iron supplementation to these people (esp. if underfed), they will very soon show signs of dangerous infections (mortality is also much higher). here is the real problem with these reductionist researchers. their knowlegde in own field it the limit for the sky. you can easily replace a 2 hours' research in the library by 2 months just working in the lab. !! the simple thing they should have done was a medline search with "leucocyte endogenious mediator" or "LEM". dozens of related articles. one of them: ABSTRACT: There is growing evidence that normal or only mildly increased amounts of iron in the liver can be damaging, particularly when they are combined with other hepatotoxic factors such as alcohol, porphyrogenic drugs, or chronic viral hepatitis. Iron enhances the pathogenicity of microorganisms, adversely affects the function of macrophages and lymphocytes, and enhances fibrogenic pathways, all of which may increase hepatic injury due to iron itself or to iron and other factors. Iron may also be a co-carcinogen or promoter of hepatocellular carcinoma, even in patients without HC or cirrhosis. Based on this and other evidence, we hope that the era of indiscriminate iron supplementation will come to an end. Bloodletting, a therapy much in vogue 2 centuries ago, is deservedly enjoying a renaissance, based on our current understanding of the toxic effects of iron and the benefits of its depletion. NLM PUBMED CIT. ID: 8723325 SOURCE: Semin Liver Dis 1996 Feb;16(1):65-82 or (a deep view) E.D. Weinberg; Physiological reviews, 64:65-102 (1984) (yes 1984!!) also very informative V. Gordeuk et al; NEJM 327: 1473-1477 (1992) science could be a real advancement/benefit for mankind, if only these researchers would be willing to discuss their views with researchers from other disciplines prior to claim to be the redeemer everyone waited for and to offer the ultimate solution for the starving rest of the world. instead some of them "play" (for them it is merely a play, they do not get ill) the devil in sheep's clothes. why don't they stick to their field of knowledge and just say : we are able to breed rice with high levels of iron and then stop any ill-bred speculation before talking to nutritional experts. pure arrogant behaviour: we are experts in breeding, so we are also educated for being experts for the rest of science... btw: hemochromatosis (iron overload) is also the most common recessive disorder in america - 10% of you are carriers for these genes and iron is cause #1 in poisoning among children (swallowing iron supplementation pills) imagine this nice situation: an agricultural scientist, a farmer, a biologist and a (don't know, maybe a geologist, a soil or nutrition expert, a veterinary or even an historian or a sales manager) trying to discuss and solve a problem TOGETHER..... btw: our BML/FAL (counterpart of your USDA) highly praises your american land grant colleges for working in a more interdisciplinary way (research, education and counseling in one institution) than our research institutes.... the whole is not a special problem of medicine, but also of agriculture. if only organic and conventional farmers would be willing to sit together on one table and discuss their knowledge and experiences. it would be an advantage for both of the groups. i tried to get them together for years, but in vain. it seems, as if they are in a war of the worlds against each other. the conventional farmers do "nothing but spending their leasure time to look, if and where they might find a spraying window", the others are "digging cats at fullmoon and consulting witches and throwing bones to fight scab"....... i learned something very interesting in a study of treating mealdew on cucumbers. organic growers treat their plants BEFORE any visible infection with equisetum (and according to maria von thun and steiner they have to stirr the melting pot with the plant-extract and water with a special ritual - something like 20 times to the left , then 20 times to the right at at a given speed, a special time of the day and a special moon phase). i tried it on cucumbers and it worked. i tried it with just stirring the way, speed and time i liked it - it worked !!! then i put the leaves under an electronic microscope and i saw: the cuticula of the leaves got hurt by the silicium crystals and the plant reacted by building stronger cell walls and adding lignin to the cuticula. which the fungi then are less easily to penetrate by cell lysis !!! nothing mysterious about moon phases and "gaia" energies, pure physics and chemistry, but also no "biologic-dynamic mumbo-jumbo", which should be forbidden by law. just a real good working solution for a real problem. same problem for the other side: if organic matter is so important: on our experimental station we get about 12 to/ha/y of organic residues in the soil for conventional farming and only half of it for the organic plots. so contemplating production of organic matter conventional farming should add more humus (although i see a VERY big problem here: organic matter is NOT humus. add tons of sawdust to your fields and you highly improve your % of organic matter. do we agree, that this does not have an adequate advantage ?. there is not easy and cheap way to analyse real HUMUS, usually you get % of organic matter from the lab !!) nevertheless leaching of nitrate under "organic" production is reduced, although o.m. is lower. no answer for that fact !!! and over the years i could see one of the advantages/disadvantages of the two systems in our experimental station, when it's time for plowing the fields and you ask, who is going to plow. in dry years lots of voluntaries for the organic field plots and few for the conventional plots. in wet years: noone to find for the "organic" parts of the station, everyone wants to plow the conventional farmed areas..... farming isn't just about black and white...(or organic versus conventional) ! THAT'S a real problem. noone of the two opposite groups is willing to listen to the other one, although they BOTH could learn from each other. times are not so favorable to farmers as a whole, that they can tear themselfes to pieces ignoring their global bad situation. to me sustainable agriculture is not about organic or conventional, but more to survival as independant and one of the most important parts of society... a special european problem ?? again a question to misha (comments from others by all means also welcome) : how would a PROFESSIONAL COMMUNICATION manager deal with this situation ? how would you bring these TWO groups together on ONE roundtable ??? (did you?). an invitation to a free beer or wine did not work !! klaus Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 03:54:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA14032 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA04617 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:08:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04501 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:08:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA13466 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:08:31 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20873 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:07:59 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 11 Aug 99 09:02:06 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 11 Aug 99 09:01:16 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:01:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: ecoli bacteria Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <9F0AA502631@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2153 hello nancy >Hi. Hoping someone can help me. I am in contract to purchase a farm >and I just had the water tested. Coliform 23+ and ecoli 5.1. The >farm is fed by two springs (no well) and one spring exclusively >feeds the field and the other goes into the house (and so a UV >bulb wouldn't help). in DRINKING water there shouldn't be ANY ecoli ! otherwise i would not ask you for a glass of water. but the numbers do look a bit strange to me. coliform 23+ ? there is no further information on the analysis certificate ? something like 23 * 10^5 (or 10^6 ?) colony forming units ? found in what volume of water ?? 100 ccm or 1 liter or one gallon ? >is there any cheap solution to this problem? mostly there isn't. you will have to find the source of the contamination (breaking-down of the walls of the well ?). before you do not know the source, you can only guess about the costs. Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 06:01:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA14715 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA09578 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:41:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp03.iafrica.com (smtp03.iafrica.com [196.7.0.133]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09420 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:41:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [196.7.192.156] (helo=spock1) by smtp03.iafrica.com with smtp (Exim 1.92 #1) for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu id 11ETvr-0009gp-00; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:40:24 +0200 Reply-To: From: "Riaan Botes" To: Subject: RE: maggots, um yummy Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:34:33 +0200 Message-ID: <000501bee3d5$1f5bc640$9cc007c4@spock1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 In-Reply-To: <799478e7.24e2387d@aol.com> Importance: Normal Disposition-Notification-To: "Riaan Botes" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2154 Hi I think this is my first post to this group. I have been lurking here for over a year - very interesting. |We were thinking of growing maggots for food, dry them and |grind them up. |Insects, the food for the next millenium. Join the leading edge. In Benin, West Africa, there is a sustainable agric college called Songhai. They use maggots in a very interesting manner. I stand corrected on the figures, but as I recall them: They have an area of about 20m x 30m divided up into 1m x 1m recesses about 15cm deep and each "hole/bin" is surrounded by a channel. Into these bins go kitchen offal, dead rodents, lizards, pig sty gunk etc. etc. and vegetable refuse. All mixed together - a fly gourmet diner. The flies lay eggs, maggots hatch and eat/process this stuff and when the maggots cannot find any food left in these bins, they crawl out in search of more. They then fall into the channels where they are collected and put in buckets. Once all the maggots have left a bin, the content is removed and then new mix added. 1. The maggots are collected by the elderly in the community - giving them the opportunity to contribute - instead of being sidelined. 2. The remnant material from the bins is compost and this is reworked into the communal gardens. 3. It tends to concentrate the flies around these bins and keeps them away from the rest of the area, especially food preparation areas. 4. Maggots are 70% protein 5. 1 ton gunk produces 7 tons of maggots 6. Used as fish food in aquaculture they produce about 2 tons of Tilapia, which are harvested and sold to the surrounding communities. The project director has a saying ".. that there is no free lunch for anyone here. Even the flies have to work for their food". Cheers Riaan To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From brateaver@earthlink.net Wed Aug 11 07:22:47 1999 Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id HAA15507 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12630; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B0D613.CDEF3A3C@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:46:59 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: small scale grain thresher? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2155 this kind of info is found under the heading: Appropriate technology. Oodles of info under that wording. =================== Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm > london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net > http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/tools > http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech > EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture > > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Andy Clark wrote: > > > Subject: FW: small scale grain thresher? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spiritus [mailto:spiritus@uninets.net] > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 4:15 PM > > To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu > > Subject: small scale grain thresher? > > I'm with the Bioregional Conservancy and Reclamation Trust in central > > Maine. We are developing an intergated sustainable model farm system with > > eventual related cottage industries, ie bakery. I am looking for threshing > > equipment suitable for small acreage, and have a few acres of winter rye to > > harvest right now. Do you know of such, even stationary units, even human > > powered? Do you know of plans for same? What is used in 3rd world > > countries to mechanically thresh grains? We have many small fields, 15-20 > > acres that need to be better used or they will grow back to woods. Help if > > Maybe others can post their responses here so we can all benefit. > > In this book: > > "Food and Life" > by Gerald Ames & Rose Wyler > "Creative Science Series" > Pub. 1966 by Creative Educational Society, Inc. > Mankato, Minnesota > in cooperation with the Museum of Natural History, NYC > Library of Congress card number: 65-27828 > On page 81 is a photograph of a threshing machine (shown threshing rice) > Caption: "Threshing rice by machine at a research center in the > Phillipines" > Preceeding page: " ... In the Phillipines, special threshing machines are > being tried out with the help of the Rockefeller and Ford Foundations > (opposite)." > The machine depicted seems the ideal thresher for a small farm. Dimensions > might be 28-30" wide X 52" long X 90" tall. It is manually fed through a > hopper at the top; chaff goes out through aduct in fromt, cant's make out > where grain exits. It is operated in stationary position, is mounted on > two wheels under frame with trailer tongue & hitch (can see this in > photo). > > I'll bet some of these are still around on farms or research stations. > Newer models are probably pricey, if available. > > I have a fine roller mill for pulverizing grain for livestock feed, > its a "Feedlot" brand made by Roskamp Mfg. Co., Cedar Falls, Iowa. > Very heavily built, easy to adjust fineness of grind and is powered by a > 1-2 hp electric motor. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 08:03:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15977 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:03:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05101 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05046 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12569; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B0D32C.64647130@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:34:36 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Lozier CC: Julie , sanet-mg Subject: Re: store eggs versus chicken eggs; was Re: Free roaming layers References: <19990804224340852.AAA329@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.37]> <37A9FA02.FA55B1C8@earthlink.net> <3.0.1.32.19990810085617.006cae5c@wvu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2156 Reminds me of another child, who was invited to eat at his friend's house. He came back to tell his mother, those people must be very poor. All they had for napkins was rags. That poor boy had never known anything but paper napkins, did not recognize quality table setting when he saw it. ============= John Lozier wrote: > When our son was little, we got some of those free-roaming eggs and he > immediately noticed the yolks were orange, not the usual yellow. "What > kind of eggs are these," he demanded. "Chicken eggs," we said. His response: > > "I want store eggs, not chicken eggs!" > > That was about 25 years ago, and it is now part of our family folklore. > > At 02:28 PM 8/6/99 -0500, Julie wrote: > >Hi Bargyla, > > > >you wrote: > > > >(snip) I was shocked, after trying > >> some free range chicken eggs there, that the yolks were pale > >yellow-certainly > >> those chickens never ate a green leaf. > > > >This is even better...some city folks we heard about threw out some eggs > >with vivid orange yolks, thinking there was something WRONG with them. They > >were so used to that pathetic tell-tale pale yellow, and didn't know any > >better! Guess they'd flip over the pretty blue-green shells of Araucana > >eggs! LOL! > > > >Actually a sad state of affairs that a mere generation or two has placed us > >so far from our food supply...we don't even know what a darn egg yolk should > >look like!! > > > >Julie > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 08:03:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA15975 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05139 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05087 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12589; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B0D546.C23A9430@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:43:35 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Clark CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" , "'spiritus@uninets.net'" Subject: Re: FW: small scale grain thresher? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2157 I can tell you how our rice was prepared. We bought it as grains, but with the hulls on. The day's meal portion was put in a wooden mortar, hollowed out from a stump of wood. Two women would pound it, each with a pestly, each taking a turn. Thum from woman A, then thump from woman B, and so on, alternating, until the grains were freed from hulls. Then the whole mass was put on a woven disk, and the disk shaken in the wind, so everything but the grain would blow off. That was the "threshed" grain we cooked. Of course, along with the hulls discarded, was the priceless reddish powder of the layer just inside the hull. That was where the flavor was, and we still yearn for that "red rice" of our childhood. That was probably where most of the nutritional value was. But even at that, we had the red rice we loved so much. Myy younger sister had a chance to return, and she said they could not find red rice any more, anywhere. What a loss. Andy Clark wrote: > Can anyone help? > > Pease reply to Bruce at spiritus@uninets.net (he is not on sanet, so will > not receive replies to sanet). > > Bruce Walker > Bioregional Conservancy & Reclamation Trust > P. O. Box 777 > Unity, ME 04988 > Tel/fax: 1 207 568 3139 > > -----Original Message----- > From: spiritus [mailto:spiritus@uninets.net] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 4:15 PM > To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu > Subject: small scale grain thresher? > > Hi, > I'm with the Bioregional Conservancy and Reclamation Trust in central > Maine. We are developing an intergated sustainable model farm system with > eventual related cottage industries, ie bakery. I am looking for threshing > equipment suitable for small acreage, and have a few acres of winter rye to > harvest right now. Do you know of such, even stationary units, even human > powered? Do you know of plans for same? What is used in 3rd world > countries to mechanically thresh grains? We have many small fields, 15-20 > acres that need to be better used or they will grow back to woods. Help if > you can! > > Thanks a million > > Bruce Walker > > Bioregional Conservancy & Reclamation Trust > P. O. Box 777 > Unity, ME 04988 > Tel/fax: 1 207 568 3139 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 08:05:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16009 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05265 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05214 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12708; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B0DAAF.850E08B3@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:06:39 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery Vs. Salatin - two answers say it all! References: <199908102150.QAA25656@billman.kuntrynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2158 Not only that he "speaks from the heart", but just think!! the man who spends his life just trying to boost the horrible chemicals usage, is hoping his own child won't waste away his life like that, while Salatin has already trained his children to appreciate life all over his farm and to learn to make a living, honestly and decently, from such sources, and has somethign worthwhile to leave them when he is gone. Trash vs. good things. Lies vs truth The Scriptures vs. evolution fairy tales.. ===================== Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > Unlike my husband, I DID read through the whole Avery/Salatin debate! The > responses to one question pretty much summed up the whole debate for me. > The host, Jeff Ishee asked how Dennis and Joel felt about their sons > following in their footsteps. Here are the responses: > > Avery: Oh, it makes me feel a little nervous, because we don't get paid > very well for what we do in this field, and I'm concerned that he'll be > able to build the kind of career that his brain power and energy ought to > let him have. > > Salatin: For my part, I really can't talk about it without getting choked > up. It's the blessing of anything that we have created in agricultural > paradigms on our farm, and that's romancing the next generation into it. > And that, to me, is the ultimate sustainability. > > Now, doesn't this illustrate the difference in the priorities of these two > men? Avery might be a smooth talker, but I give more credit to someone who > speaks from his heart like Salatin does. > > Lei Gunthorp > Pasture hog farmer's wife > LaGrange, Indiana > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 08:06:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16019 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05359 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05300 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12794; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B0DDBD.2E79D982@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:19:41 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Lozier CC: BILL DUESING <71042.2023@compuserve.com>, Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Grassland versus lawns; was Re: Now's the Time to Say Good-bye to Your Lawn References: <3.0.1.32.19990810092045.006a6d94@wvu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2159 I don't have lawn, just dead leaves all over. I was told, if I wanted to sell, I should at once get sod and plant it all over, because that is what sells the place. I suppose that is true. I value the dead leaves, the deeper the better, because it is organic matter that improves the soil for the trees growing there, (and vines along the perimeter fence). but that would mean nothing to people who just visualize a home enwrapped with green lawn. I suppose whoever has to sell this place when I am dead will have to put down the sod, as recommended. John Lozier wrote: > Bill, I think you are a bit harsh with lawns. My own lawn, which hasn't > been fertilized in 30 years, is a diverse ecosystem of clovers, dandelions, > mosses, and other things besides grass. Now under drought it is patchy > brown and green, still nice to have. At times of normal moisture it is a > beautiful mini-jungle, under an intermittent mowing management. > > I especially love to see clovers rampant in a lawn. A couple of years ago > I had an early morning paper route and there was a new development where > the contractor installed a uniform sod. Somehow, one of those places got > infested with clover and it seemed like a miracle to me. I even > contemplated the radical action of spreading clover seed as I made my early > morning rounds. I didn't do it, though. > > On the lower-budget side of the development the contractor used sod that > had been stored on a pallet for too long, so most of it was dead. He > spread it anyway, relying upon the adaptability of grass to fill in the > spaces. That would have been the best place to establish an alternative > sward. > > Grassland is a beautiful thing. I caught the spell of grassland in the > plains of Venezuela. But grassland in the proper sense is not a > monoculture, it is a complex ecosystem akin to a miniature rain forest. > > Instead of dissing lawns, why not promote the beauty of a domestic grassland. > > Sincerely, John Lozier > harper for harmony > > At 05:01 PM 8/7/99 -0400, BILL DUESING wrote: > >Living on the Earth, July 30, 1999: Now's the Time to Say Good-bye to Your > >Lawn > > > >This drought and heat wave are just the impetus you need to finally get rid > >of your lawn. While most trees and shrubs are still fairly green, lawns > >everywhere are brown and unsightly. We are at a turning point in the > >reputation of an American icon. > > > snip > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 08:06:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16023 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05870 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:13:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05691 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:13:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13224; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B0FAB7.E99E3C39@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:23:20 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Renewable News Network CC: Environmental Review , oldways@tiac.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Three Food Articles... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2160 This is the kind of thing that worries one. As I have said several times on this list, I grew up in a tropical, very primitive region, and those people ate , besides rice, greens of great variety,--the kind of greens here called weeds--but that provided all the vitamin A anyone needed. There was never any need for vitamin pills--everyone ate the similar diet--cooked rice, with greens and stew beef, and raw tomatoes with onions, as "salad".. They had wonderful, white, strong teeth. No dentists existed. Nowhere to buy eyeglasses. Diseases came from unsanitary conditions--easy access of "germs" to people, who slept on dirt floors, cooked on wood fire by a big black kettle set on stones. No refrigeration anywhere. Had to cook up everything at night to keep it overnight for next day eating. Renewable News Network wrote: > Three Food Articles in Today's Boston Globe > =========================================== > 1. A trade body on hormones > 2. Chefs cast a skeptical eye on altered food > 3. Vitamin A derivative is added to rice > > 1. A trade body on hormones > By Mark Weisbrot, 08/04/99 > > WASHINGTON, D.C. Should countries have the right to set health and > safety standards for the food their citizens eat? Should they be > allowed to exclude foreign-produced foods that don't meet national > standards? Or should these questions be decided by the World Trade > Organization? > > Like it or not, these issues are being decided right now. In the > latest trade dispute between the world's two largest trading > partners, our government placed sanctions last week on $117 million > worth on European goods. The purpose of the sanctions is to force > the Europeans to import American beef raised with growth hormones. > Ordinarily this decision to place 100 percent tariffs on French > truffles, foie gras, and other delicacies most of us have never > tasted would violate our international trade agreements. But in > this case the United States has the backing of the World Trade > Organization, a 134-nation body that was created four years ago to > negotiate and govern world trade. The WTO has ruled that Europe's > ban on hormone-treated beef is illegal, and it authorized the > United States to impose retaliatory trade sanctions against the > European Union. > > Consider the arguments: The Europeans don't allow beef treated with > growth hormones to be sold in their markets, regardless of where it > is produced. They just don't think it is all that safe to eat. > But most US beef is, in fact, treated with these hormones. So our > government, at the request of the beef industry, filed a complaint > at the WTO, arguing that the ban was an unfair restriction on > trade. The rules of the WTO say that any health or environmental > standard that affects trade must be supported by scientific > evidence. So the WTO appointed a three-judge panel, which decided > in March 1997 that there was not enough scientific evidence to > justify Europe's ban on hormone-treated beef. But two months ago > an independent panel of scientists asked by the European Commission > to consider these questions reached a different conclusion. The > scientists found that one of the six hormones commonly found in > beef is a ''complete carcinogen.'' The panel concluded that > further study would be needed on the other five hormones, although > anyone reading the 142-page report would undoubtedly wonder why we > Americans allow these drugs to be pumped into our own livestock. > We probably wouldn't, especially for consumption by those most > susceptible to the effects of the hormones, such as children and > pregnant women, if most people knew what they were eating. But > there are no labeling requirements for these extra ingredients in > your hamburger. Regardless of how one assesses the scientific > evidence, shouldn't the Europeans be allowed to err on the side of > caution if they so choose? Most people would say yes. This case > is particularly worrisome because everyone agrees that the law > against hormone-treated beef was designed to protect Europe's > consumers, not its domestic cattle industry. And the law applies > without discrimination to both domestic and foreign producers. Yet > the WTO insists that an unaccountable, three-judge panel meeting in > secret can overturn a European law simply because it has an adverse > impact on trade. The tail (trade) is wagging the dog (public > health) here, and this is exactly what environmental, consumer, and > labor groups warned would happen when the WTO was created four > years ago. > > If Americans think this is only Europe's problem, they should look > at a few key WTO decisions in the last couple of years that have > gone against Americans. In 1997 the US Environmental Protection > Agency weakened its regulations on contaminants in imported > gasoline in order to comply with a WTO ruling that found these > rules to be an unfair trade barrier. The enforcement of our > Endangered Species Act -specifically, the protection of sea turtles > - has also been compromised by recent WTO rulings. From the point > of view of big business, and especially large multinational > corporations, these are not disturbing developments. For business > interests it is only natural to see human beings and our > environment as instruments of global trade and commerce. They are > quite comfortable with having these decisions made by a tribunal of > an international organization where they can have the dominant > influence, unencumbered by any congress, parliament, or other > elected officials that might have to care what ordinary citizens > think. The WTO is their creature, and it has been pretty > consistent in taking the side of business against the rights of > citizens and the larger community. The dispute over > hormone-treated beef is another round of the ongoing fight to > assert these rights. It won't be the last. Mark Weisbrot is > research director at the Preamble Center in Washington. > > This story ran on page A23 of the Boston Globe on 08/04/99. > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > 2. Chefs cast a skeptical eye on altered food > By Alison Arnett, Globe Staff, 08/04/99 > > Our food and exactly what's in it is shaping up to be the burning > issue of the next millennium. And chefs, the come-from-behind > superstars of the end of this one, are poised to be our gurus. The > storm clouds have been gathering for most of this decade, ever > since scientists devised a tomato with a longer shelf life, called > it Flavr Savr, and put it on the market. It flopped, but the > battle lines, as muddled as in real warfare, began to be drawn. On > one side, there is science and industry; on the other, the skeptics > who worry about bioengineered vegetables, grains, and even fish. > Now the United States and the European Union are locked in a fight > over altered foods that threatens to explode into an international > trade war. Meanwhile, scientists for Monsanto and other big seed > and food companies are genetically engineering corn, soybeans, and > other products. Some milk producers inject cows with a growth > hormone to increase production. Genes from one species of fish are > being spliced with other species to counteract cold water and speed > production. > > Chefs, led by such young lions as Stan Frankenthaler, owner of > Salamander in Cambridge, are stepping up, scrutinizing the > rush,questioning the results. > > ''What I feed my customers, my friends, my family is definitely > important to me,'' says Frankenthaler, who is the vice chairman of > the national Chefs Collaborative 2000. The collaborative, an > initiative of Oldways Preservation & Exchange Trust, seeks to > promote sustainable cuisine and to encourage eating local and > seasonal products. To Frankenthaler and Rick Bayless, chef-owner > of Frontera Grill and Topolobampo in Chicago and the > collaborative's chairman, it makes perfect sense for restaurateurs > to be as concerned with what's in food as with how to be creative > and make money from serving it. > > ''We buy a lot of food,'' says Bayless, and biogenetic engineering > ''is definitely going to affect our food supply.'' He adds: > ''Chefs are becoming more articulate and more savvy. I don't know > all the scientific things, but I can choose whether or not to serve > my customers genetically altered food. Right now, there are a lot > of questions floating around that we don't have answers for.'' > > The past decade has seen an upsurge not only in fine dining but in > listing the sources of food. Even at fairly modest restaurants, > menus now are likely to tout the farms where the green beans were > raised, give the provenance of the beef, reveal the source of the > strawberries. Chefs have proudly proclaimed relationships with > small growers and farmers, many of them organic, and made it a > selling point of their food. Their concern about biogenetics is a > natural outgrowth. > > ''I'm bothered by the idea that I don't know the origins of > ingredients in my food,''says Frankenthaler. By working with > farmers in season, knowing his suppliers, and using as many organic > products as he can, Frankenthaler feels he's fairly knowledgeable > about origins. But some ingredients, such as soy oil used in > frying, would cost three times as much as nonorganic, he says. > > ''Customers are only willing to bear so much,''he says, adding with > a smile, ''It would be difficult to get customers to pay $38 for > chicken.'' He buys organic flour, eggs, and canned tomatoes, plus > milk produced without growth hormones. The milk issue crystallized > his views early in the '90s. > > ''I became more deeply aware, because of the controversy around the > bovine growth hormone, of the seriousness of science being involved > in the foodstream.'' Milk - and whether it is affected by the > hormone called rBST, used to increase production - has created > stronger comment, Frankenthaler thinks, because ''it struck home. > Milk is nurturing; it's what you give children. It's supposed to > come straight from the cow'' without tampering. Both Frankenthaler > and Bayless emphasize that the Chefs Collaborative is not saying > that genetic engineering is inherently bad for the food supply. > After all, as Frankenthaler says, farmers have crossed seeds and > manipulated agriculture for centuries, but ''within the laws of > nature.'' Now scientists are able to do amazing things, Bayless > says, but some in the agricultural industry and the federal Food > and Drug Administration are taking the position that the public > should not be worried unless there's proof of damage. Because corn > and soybeans, so far the most likely crops to have been genetically > altered, are in many processed foods, consumers aren't likely to > know or be able to make decisions. On the milk issue, in contrast, > there was enough outcry that supermarkets began refusing to stock > milk containing rBST. > > ''Let's just put some brakes on all of this,'' says Bayless. His > question: ''Do we want the companies like Monsanto'' making these > decisions for us? > > ''We want labeling, so that people can make their own decisions,'' > he adds. And the recent case of monarch butterflies dying after > feeding on the pollen of genetically altered corn was a wakeup > call, he says, indicating that the seed companies hadn't thought > through all the possible results. The question of labeling is > under review by the US Department of Agriculture. Agriculture > Secretary Dan Glickman has said he is reconsidering the labeling > issue after the outcry over bovine growth hormones in milk. And > the monarch butterfly incident has caused more discussion among the > science and industry components. > > One restaurateur who has chosen to take the purist's approach is > Nora Pouillon, owner of the elegant Nora and Asia Nora in > Washington, D.C. A national organic commission recently certified > her restaurants 95 percent organic, with ingredients ranging from > vegetables, milk,cheeses, and meats to items such as salt from > Brittany and spices. > > ''I've been in business 20 years,'' Pouillon says, ''and so it's > maybe more economical for me,'' because of rents and long > associations with organic suppliers. ''I wouldn't do it any other > way,'' she says, adding that one person on her staff is employed > only to source organic products. Why chefs, one might ask. > > ''The answer is, chefs have always been authority figures about > food,'' says K. Dun Gifford, whose Oldways organization spawned the > collaborative, ''but only in the last decade have they been taken > seriously. We pay a lot of money to go eat their food. If food is > dangerous, they care deeply.'' > > As for the premise that the issue is important only to an elite > group of chefs and those who pay more for organic products, Gifford > angrily replies: > > ''The people who speak that way about the public are really the > snobs. They treat food as a subject important to only rich > people.'' Bayless brings the argument back to the consumer. He > scoffs at the idea that Americans prefer not knowing about their > food sources if that saves them money. > > ''The US pays less for its food than anywhere else,'' Bayless says. > ''Europeans pay a lot more for food, and they won't accept'' > hormones or genetic engineering. ''We're on the wrong road'' on > prices, Bayless thinks. As a nation of consumers, we need to make > sure our food is safe, rather than worrying so much about cost and > demanding giant amounts of food. And all consumers, as well as > restaurateurs, should have the right to know what's in their food, > the chefs agree. > > For more information, write to Chefs Collaborative 2000, 25 First > St., Cambridge, MA 02141, or telephone 617-621-3000, or e-mail: > The local chapter president is Ana Sortun, chef > of Casablanca in Harvard Square. > > This story ran on page C01 of the Boston Globe on 08/04/99. > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > 3. Vitamin A derivative is added to rice > By Karen Hsu, Globe Correspondent, 08/04/99 > > Developing world seen as beneficiary > > ST. LOUIS - A bright, yellow-tinted rice genetically engineered to > have a vitamin A derivative, with two genes from a daffodil and one > from a bacterium, may help reduce vitamin A deficiency, Swiss and > German researcher said yesterday. The problem, they said, is > particularly severe in developing countries where the major staple > food is rice. While vitamin A deficiency is virtually unheard of > in the United States and other industrialized countries, 1 to 3 > million children die each year from a lack of the vitamin, which is > essential for proper functioning of the immune system. Vitamin A > deficiency, linked to a variety of infectious diseases, is also the > leading cause of blindness in children in the developing world. > According to UNICEF, supplementation with vitamin A is estimated to > lower a child's risk of dying from several diseases by about 23 > percent. More than 100 million pre-school-age children suffer from > vitamin A deficiency. After seven years of work, Ingo Potrykus of > the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology's Institute for Plant > Sciences in Zurich, and his colleagues in Freiburg, Germany, > achieved production of beta-carotene, which converts to vitamin A > in the body, in rice grain by adding three genes to rice plants. > The results were announced at the International Botanical Congress > in St. Louis, where more than 4,000 scientists are meeting this > week to discuss the latest results of plant research. Rice plants > normally produce beta carotene, but only in the green parts of the > plant, not in the component of rice grain eaten by humans. Beta > carotene is found in dark green, leafy vegetables, and is > responsible for the yellow and orange color in fruits and > vegetables. Although the first successful beta carotene rice > grains have not gone through animal or human testing, scientists > and public health expert say they believe the results will be > ''encouraging.'' Potrykus predicts that the yellow rice should be > in the hands of farmers in the next two to four years. > > ''If the rice is acceptable to the children, it could immediately > begin to make a difference.... This is a tremendously important > advancement and an extremely valuable tool,'' said Dr. Alfred > Sommer, dean of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public > Health, who led the research that linked vitamin A to higher death > rates in children. The most common sources of vitamin A are meat, > eggs, and dairy products - foods that are too expensive or > unavailable to most people in developing countries. Following > environmental and food safety tests, the new varieties of rice are > expected to be distributed free of charge by the Philippines-based > International Rice Research Institute and various agricultural > research centers in developing countries. Local rice growers, > using traditional breeding techniques, will transfer the > characteristics of the beta-carotene rice into varieties adapted to > local conditions. To battle vitamin A deficiency, UNICEF gives out > vitamin A capsules when parents bring their children for > immunizations. In addition, some countries have fortified staple > ingredients with vitamin A. In Latin America, sugar has been > fortified, and in the Philippines, wheat is fortified with vitamin > A. But since the results are only proven in the laboratory at this > point, UNICEF does not plan to change its focus on supplementation > and fortification, a UNICEF official said. > > But Potrykus' results may force UNICEF to further look into a > broader issue: genetically engineered food in general, which has > provoked a lot of controversy in Europe and some in the United > States. Most genetically altered products are benefiting farmers > in the developed world, helping them increase yield, but the > practice has not trickled down to developing nations. Schultink > said that UNICEF currently does not have an official stand on > genetically altered food. > > On the horizon, said Potrykus, is genetically modified rice with > twice the amount of iron. Iron deficiency anemia, the most common > nutritional disorder in the world, affects nearly 2 billion people, > impairs immunity, and reduces people's mental and physical > capabilities. Between 40 and 50 percent of children under 5 in > developing countries are iron deficient. To double the iron > content in the rice, researchers added a ferritin gene derived from > a French bean. Ferritin is an iron storage protein found in many > animals and plants. > > This story ran on page A4 of the Boston Globe on 08/04/99. > > Send announcements, stories, and notices of interest to: > Renewable News Network > 44 Norfolk Street > Needham, MA 02492 USA > Contact: Ross M. Donald 781-453-9668 > > With "Sol Kitchen" Solar Coffee Can Cooker Kits, its just food. > > To receive the Environmental Review , > or Solar Utilities messages, send an e-mail to rnn@rnn.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 08:07:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16028 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05241 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05173 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12630; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B0D613.CDEF3A3C@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:46:59 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: small scale grain thresher? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2161 this kind of info is found under the heading: Appropriate technology. Oodles of info under that wording. =================== Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm > london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net > http://metalab.unc.edu/london/orgfarm/tools > http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech > EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture > > On Tue, 10 Aug 1999, Andy Clark wrote: > > > Subject: FW: small scale grain thresher? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spiritus [mailto:spiritus@uninets.net] > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 4:15 PM > > To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu > > Subject: small scale grain thresher? > > I'm with the Bioregional Conservancy and Reclamation Trust in central > > Maine. We are developing an intergated sustainable model farm system with > > eventual related cottage industries, ie bakery. I am looking for threshing > > equipment suitable for small acreage, and have a few acres of winter rye to > > harvest right now. Do you know of such, even stationary units, even human > > powered? Do you know of plans for same? What is used in 3rd world > > countries to mechanically thresh grains? We have many small fields, 15-20 > > acres that need to be better used or they will grow back to woods. Help if > > Maybe others can post their responses here so we can all benefit. > > In this book: > > "Food and Life" > by Gerald Ames & Rose Wyler > "Creative Science Series" > Pub. 1966 by Creative Educational Society, Inc. > Mankato, Minnesota > in cooperation with the Museum of Natural History, NYC > Library of Congress card number: 65-27828 > On page 81 is a photograph of a threshing machine (shown threshing rice) > Caption: "Threshing rice by machine at a research center in the > Phillipines" > Preceeding page: " ... In the Phillipines, special threshing machines are > being tried out with the help of the Rockefeller and Ford Foundations > (opposite)." > The machine depicted seems the ideal thresher for a small farm. Dimensions > might be 28-30" wide X 52" long X 90" tall. It is manually fed through a > hopper at the top; chaff goes out through aduct in fromt, cant's make out > where grain exits. It is operated in stationary position, is mounted on > two wheels under frame with trailer tongue & hitch (can see this in > photo). > > I'll bet some of these are still around on farms or research stations. > Newer models are probably pricey, if available. > > I have a fine roller mill for pulverizing grain for livestock feed, > its a "Feedlot" brand made by Roskamp Mfg. Co., Cedar Falls, Iowa. > Very heavily built, easy to adjust fineness of grind and is powered by a > 1-2 hp electric motor. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 08:12:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16110 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:12:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05429 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05346 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0015.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.164.15]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12839; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B0E08A.7CA47C1A@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:31:38 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary Gold CC: "'Misha'" , SANET-mg , Susan Chapman , Andy Clark , Abiola Adeyemi , Jane Gates Subject: Re: Old ag publications and the cost of memory References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2162 It was a good idea of yours to list so many good sources, esp since most people would never think of looking there. Incidentally, I got a big kick out of noting, when all those famous people were being taped, that it never even occurred to them, to include me, or it did occur and was vetoed, in spite of the fact that I started the organic movement in Calif, most certainly made more noise about organics than anybody else around, except Robert Rodale. I got a real bang out of reading something somewhere, years ago, complaining about "Rateaver and Rodale"--imagine my being classed with such a big name--oh, oh. Mary Gold wrote: > Michele, > > Thanks for the focus on "loss of cultural memory", and the encouragement to > us here at the National Ag. Library! I have appreciated the whole sanet-mg > exchange on old ag publications. As an ag librarian and a history major, I > am doubly aware of the treasures that lie on the shelves above my office, > and the "community of knowledge" (I like that term) that they represent. > Each time I venture into the stacks I am amazed at what I find. There > doesn't seem to be any aspect of food and fiber production that hasn't been > addressed before. (In fact, I have come to believe that if I can't find > something there it's because I haven't looked hard enough... just need more > hours in the day.) I have stopped being surprised by the depth of > information (some of it decades old) on every "new" concept that I am > researching. I too, lament the waning of attention paid to these resources. > > The National Agricultural Library Reference staff and the Alternative > Farming Systems Information Center have worked to make some of the wonderful > information here more accessible to the public. Resources permitting (I > also like the large check with many zeros image!), we will continue the > effort. Some of the work done here includes: > > GUIDE TO HISTORICAL RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL AGRICULTURAL LIBRARY: THE > GENERAL COLLECTION (Special Reference Briefs: SRB 94-02), by Susan Chapman, > Reference and User Services Branch [This publication is designed as an > entree to historical research at the National Agricultural Library, not as a > comprehensive bibliography. Only a small number of the thousands of books > and articles of historical interest have been included. Although the > collection is worldwide in scope, containing material in some 75 languages, > emphasis is on American agriculture and on English language publications. > > The Guide is divided into two sections: the General Collection, and > Additional Resources. In addition to works dealing exclusively with > agriculture, a limited number of selected materials in general history, the > history of science, medicine, and technology, and general biography have > been included. An update is in process.] > http://www.nal.usda.gov/ref/history.htm > > The NAL Reference Staff have also put together indexes to the following USDA > series: > [none are available on the website yet; however, very limited supplies of > hardcopy versions are available on request. Reference and AFSIC staff can > also search for specific topics and titles in these series on request.] > > Index to USDA Miscellaneous Publications, Numbers 1-1479, compiled by Ellen > Kay Miller. NAL, 1992. 109 p. NAL call no.: aS21.A99 1992 [Misc. > Publications began publication in 1927] > > Index to USDA Technical Bulletins, Numbers 1-1802, compiled by Ellen Kay > Miller. NAL, 1993. 120 p. NAL call no.: aZ5073.I52 1993 [Technical Bulletins > began publication in 1927] > > USDA Agriculture Handbooks: Numbers 1-690, compiled by Ellen Kay Miller. > NAL, 1992. 55 p. NAL call no.: S501.2 [Handbooks began publication in 1950] > > Index to USDA Agricultural Information Bulletins, Numbers 1-649, compiled by > Ellen Kay Miller. NAL, 1992. NAL call no.: aS21.A74M54 1992 [Ag. Info. > Bulletins began publication in 1949] > > NAL, along with a consortium of other agricultural libraries, has also been > active in several Preservation projects (digital and microfilm) of historic > materials. > http://www.nal.usda.gov/preservation/ > > Finally, NAL does accept donations of older books and journals, video tapes, > etc. For their policies see: Gift and Exchange Program > http://www.nal.usda.gov/acq/gift_and_exchange.html > > AFSIC Resources: > > Tracing the Evolution of Organic/Sustainable Agriculture: A Selected and > Annotated Bibliography, compiled by Jane Potter Gates. Bibliographies and > Literature of Agriculture (BLA) no. 72. NAL, November 1988. > http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/AFSIC_pubs/tracing.htm > > During the late 80s and early 90s, Jane Gates worked on a series of "oral > histories", videotaped interviews with "people who have provided leadership > and inspiration in the field of alternative or sustainable agriculture." > Interviewees include Wes Jackson, Fred Kirschenmann, William Lockeretz, > Patrick Madden, James Duke, Robert Rodale, Paul O'Connell, Dick Thompson, > Jayne MacLean, Charles Francis, and Garth Youngberg. The tapes are > available through Interlibrary Loan, or can be viewed here at NAL. > > AFSIC recently published Vegetables and Fruits: A Guide to Heirloom > Varieties and Community-Based Stewardship, by Suzanne DeMuth. NAL, September > 1998. (3 Volumes.) It is a wonderful resource on historic American > vegetable and fruit varieties. Volume 3 addresses older publications in > particular related to varieties. All three volumes (Volume 1. Annotated > Bibliography; Volume 2. Resource Organizations; Volume 3. Historical > Supplement) are available in hardcopy from our office or can be read via our > website: http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/AFSIC_pubs/heirloom/heirloom.htm > > Although I am an enthusiastic advocate of making this knowledge > electronically available, there is something special about leafing through > the old volumes of planting guides, market plans, and field studies. Here > at the Library, I can actually do that. Most of the documents indexed in > the above publications can be requested, leafed through, read, and > photocopied in the NAL Reference area. The National Agricultural Library is > open to the public every weekday, 8 to 4:30. Within the US, the materials > can also be requested through Interlibrary Loan. > > Thanks from Abiola, Andy, Jane and me for your message, Michelle. And > thanks for giving me the chance to pass along information about the candle > burners here at the Library and AFSIC. > > Sincerely, > Mary > > Mary V. Gold > Alternative Farming Systems Information Center > National Agricultural Library, ARS, USDA > 10301 Baltimore Ave., Room 304 > Beltsville MD 20705-2351 > phone: 301-504-6559 > fax: 301-504-6409 > e-mail: mgold@nal.usda.gov > http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic > > -----Original Message----- > From: Misha [mailto:mgs23@pacbell.net] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:43 AM > To: SANET-mg > Subject: Old ag publications and the cost of memory > > Howdy, all-- > > An interesting issue that Larry London seeded here re: the value of > older ag publications, many of which, because they predate chemical > intensive methods, contain rich humus for us sustaggies...and anyone > concerned with agricultural practices invented sometime prior to last > year by Corporation X in "university-industry partnership" with Land > Grant Z. > > A few thoughts. > > 1) Many land grant college of ag libraries have large holdings of > these old publications; some are being decatalogued and disposed of > at a frightening rate. When I was at UW-Madison, ag library staff > were pressured to make room for new publications, and that often > means that older ones go to Cutter collections...or the dumpster or > book sales. > > But at Madison's ag library--Steenbock--there were a number of folks > with the good sense to know what riches these publications contained, > and to foresee a day when people might once again care about what's > in them. There were several folks engaged in trying to raise money to > get these crumbling old ag publications into electronic format, so > their contents would be preserved in that medium. If I remember > correctly, there was a multi-land-grant initiative on this--and my > notes on this are back in Madison. I'm cc'ing this note to Gretchen > Farwell, the assistant director of Steenbock and a long-time advocate > of sustainable ag information systems. If she replies, I'll post any > helpful info to the group, or she can. Gretchen, thanks in advance. > > 2) The loss of cultural memory in agriculture, to my view, is no less > important than the loss of, say, a language. I always think of the > National Yiddish Book Center, founded out of the efforts of one man, > Aaron Lansky, who while a student of Yiddish literature in Montreal > realized that countless books in Yiddish were being discarded. These > books--the property and cultural memory of people who had survived > the /pogroms/ of eastern Europe, the Holocaust, and Stalin's > "reforms"--were sometimes discarded by the children or grandchildren > of those people, either because they couldn't read them, or didn't > see the value in them. Lansky made it his life's work to collect > these books, and he recruited other young people to do this also. In > 1980 he founded the NYBC (a loft in a building in New York, I seem to > remember), and it grew from this early collection of cast-off books > to a cultural center in Amherst, MA, with holdings of 1.4 million > books in a language that has been revitalized, largely thanks to his > efforts. (In 1980, Yiddish experts believed that there were perhaps > 70,000 extant books in the language worldwide; they were off by some > orders of magnitude.) The NYBC has also built Yiddish book > collections at scholarly libraries all over the world, as it has come > across duplicate editions of books. Thus the written cultural memory > of a people in diaspora has been preserved, and allowed to find its > way back into living memory. > > Who is doing this for old ag publications? Who is going to farm > auctions to look for old treatises on husbandry, mechanicking, > breeding, etc.? How often does it happen that an elder ag agent > passes away, or surviving widow/er does, and a lifetime collection of > books and periodicals is lost? Or a rural library closes, ditto? > Where are the regional or state or private holdings of these > materials, and who is talking to their collectors? Who is developing > annotated bibliographies of the catalogued and uncatalogued materials? > > The luminous and wonderful Walworth Co., WI, ag agent Lee Cunningham > and I have had this discussion several times over the course of the > past 5 or 6 years. He makes it part of his calling to give a home to > old ag publications that he finds, or that people offer him. He said > that people come to him because they try to donate books to their > local libraries and are told that the libraries don't have the > resources of shelf space or cataloguing labor to bring the books into > their collections. > > Of course preference for those resources goes to Danielle Steel or > Tom Clancy best sellers, since libraries now must justify their > existence by stocking what the customers want. And libraries no > longer collect books to preserve them. They are subject to vast > economies of preference, taste, revenues, and technological capacity. > In other words, demand means shelf space--in libraries, as in > supermarkets. > > So I ask again--who is doing this for pre-high-chemical/high-tech ag > books? Who in sustainable agriculture should assess and speak on > behalf of this loss of cultural memory? I know that the National > Agricultural Library does what it can--but when's the last time those > folks had the resources to publicize NAL's holdings of those > materials, or make them available in more easily replicable media, or > develop user's guides or navigational guides to what's out there? > > I have serious concerns that most of sustainable ag's resources--both > at the national and regional level--are being targeted at the > production of new information via research funding. And that very > little, if any, is being targeted at the creation of KNOWLEDGE > COMMUNITIES or that preserve that information, and put it into > context--a context that includes not only the new findings, but the > older ones as well. Or KNOWLEDGE NAVIGATION TOOLS that allow people > to access this information. > > Efforts to do this have struggled uphill like a VW Beetle in the > Rocky Mts., running with a hot # 3 cylinder and worn-down points. > Look at the struggles that the Alternative Farming Systems > Information Center at NAL faces--AFSIC's staff for years now have > tried to fill some of this role, doing carefully honed Agricola > searches of NAL holdings to help us seekers of information know > what's available. A service like that, Dan Glickman should be handing > them big foamcore-mounted checks at press conferences, saying thank > you with numbers with many zeroes behind it. > > 3) Finally, I've said this before (Cramer, you can plug your ears, > because you've heard this rant more than a couple dozen times :^) but > the consolidation of the publishing and telecommunications industry, > coupled with the privatization of Extension, promises DISASTER for > sustainable ag and the cultural memory we are trying to build with > current sustag information products. If public institutions don't > take up this slack, then sustainable ag information and > communications will inevitably go to the highest private or corporate > bidder. Wanna start making some guesses as to who that could be? > > Our information products are highly unlikely to able to either > maintain market share *or* exist on a cost-recovery basis. Unless, of > course, sustainable ag is recast as something to sell to the masses > (mainstream farmers) and the cutting-edge nature of it is > blunted...or forgotten.. > > Robert Rodale knew this--he was happy to publish /The New Farm/ and > let other publications pay for it. I've heard him blasted as a poor > businessman, but he certainly knew how to build an effective > knowledge network. > > We in sustag have limited ability, in a fragmented way, to create > information products within our various organizations...but then > these products are so dispersed, and the organizations so poorly > networked, that I see us as the equivalent of mediaeval monastic > libraries in the Dark Ages. A bunch of people scattered across the > world, trying to keep our respective little candles burning in a > howling cultural/economic wind. The Internet has been one of the only > ways we've had to talk to each other, and many of us here on SANET > got here in the good old days, when universal access was still a > principle of Internetworking. (AOL kissed that good bye, for > everyone, in a big way by equating access with how much money they > could make getting as many people as possible "on the Net" to look > for--never mind.) > > The physics of publishing are increasingly moving in the same > direction as everything else in the economy: cheap, mass scale > products or costly, luxury ones. Finding publishers who will produce > and then market a book (never mind a pamphlet or CD or video) with a > limited-at-best readership grows ever more difficult. Niche > publishers struggle along till their well-intentioned people burn out > under the heat of their own efforts. > > This is why ATTRA is such an EXPONENTIALLY IMPORTANT INITIATIVE. > Their library of sustainable-farmer-oriented literature could prove > to be one of the most critical cultural resources in the nation > someday. Not to mention the perfect information and knowledge > complement to NAL's holdings of scholarly literature. > > This is why the Sustainable Farming Connection Web site was such a > BRILLIANT IDEA (though it never got the resource support it needed to > get it truly off the ground and sustain it as it deserves). > > Enough for now. Larry, thanks for seeding the topic. I wish we could > all mosey across the street to The Sand Bar, the little neighborhood > pub that advertises itself as "on the edge of Western civilization," > and put our feet up, and talk about this stuff till the wee hours. > > Lacking the luxury of realtime conversation amongst us all...gods, > I'm grateful for this Internet group. Thanks Andy, Abioli, Jane, and > USDA/NAL. We often neglect to bow in your direction. > > And thanks, all, for listening. > > Writing from lands end, I wish you all > > peace > misha > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michele Gale-Sinex > Communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > http://www.wisc.edu > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > We're not against ideas. We're against people spreading them. > --Augusto Pinochet > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 08:58:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16613 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14583 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:07:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from toolbox.total.net (toolbox.total.net [205.236.175.109]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14551 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19685 invoked from network); 11 Aug 1999 12:07:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO windows98) (216.210.30.65) by smtp.total.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 1999 12:07:13 -0000 Message-ID: <002601bee3f0$f4f97d40$411ed2d8@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: , Subject: shagging flies in compost Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:58:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2163 Kate komplained: ><the grapes and tomatoes that i tossed in the past few days. > the surface was boiling with them. Eeeek. i thought the >years growing up on the farm had cured me of a squeemish >stomach, but this made me a bit sick. > >i know the advice was to mush everything up before it went >into the composter, but i haven't been doing that. should >i worry about all these squirming things? Yup. You can kill them with insecticidal nematodes, poured in with a watering can..... And prevent them in the future with a 'Brown-Surround' strategy, rigorously applied: for every inch of fresh garbage type stuff (aka 'Greens') put two inches of chopped straw, shredded newspapers and cardboard, shredded leaves, sawdust, woodchips or peat moss ('Browns'). Put the garbage in the center of the composter, spreading it out only to within an inch or two of the edge, never right up to it, and immediately cover it with the browns of your choice. You might also wish to top off the pile with a piece of burlap, landscape fabric, or window screen; hardware cloth, typically available in 1/2 and 1/4 inch sizes, is not useful to keep out flies....its holes are too large. (But it will keep out rats, which the others won't...) The browns I have listed above are typically obtained dry, and the kitchen wastes you will be adding are both green and wet. You want to stay within 40-60% humidity so that the pile stays aerobic, since the by-products of anaerobia are foul-smelling *and* attractive to flies..... Unless you have worms. About four pounds of worms in a 2 x 2 foot composter should get you started, and then you can keep the moisture up in the 80% range; you still need to follow the Brown-Surround program, though. If you do go for worms, get a compost thermometer and be sure temps are below 100 degrees F in the bottom of the pile before you introduce them there.... In short, composting is a skill, and like all skills, requires a certain period of time to acquire, as well as some trials and errors.... Hopefully you aren't finding it too trying, and will soon be able to exclaim with pride: "There ain't no flies on us! There ain't no flies on us! There may be flies, on some youse guys.... But there ain't no flies on us!" :-) Good composting, Frank Teuton P.S.--gloves are de rigeur for any work you do in maggoty compost, but not yer baseball glove.....;-) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 09:00:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA16638 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14584 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:07:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from toolbox.total.net (toolbox.total.net [205.236.175.109]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14550 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19685 invoked from network); 11 Aug 1999 12:07:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO windows98) (216.210.30.65) by smtp.total.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 1999 12:07:13 -0000 Message-ID: <002601bee3f0$f4f97d40$411ed2d8@windows98> From: "Frank Teuton" To: , Subject: shagging flies in compost Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:58:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2164 Kate komplained: ><the grapes and tomatoes that i tossed in the past few days. > the surface was boiling with them. Eeeek. i thought the >years growing up on the farm had cured me of a squeemish >stomach, but this made me a bit sick. > >i know the advice was to mush everything up before it went >into the composter, but i haven't been doing that. should >i worry about all these squirming things? Yup. You can kill them with insecticidal nematodes, poured in with a watering can..... And prevent them in the future with a 'Brown-Surround' strategy, rigorously applied: for every inch of fresh garbage type stuff (aka 'Greens') put two inches of chopped straw, shredded newspapers and cardboard, shredded leaves, sawdust, woodchips or peat moss ('Browns'). Put the garbage in the center of the composter, spreading it out only to within an inch or two of the edge, never right up to it, and immediately cover it with the browns of your choice. You might also wish to top off the pile with a piece of burlap, landscape fabric, or window screen; hardware cloth, typically available in 1/2 and 1/4 inch sizes, is not useful to keep out flies....its holes are too large. (But it will keep out rats, which the others won't...) The browns I have listed above are typically obtained dry, and the kitchen wastes you will be adding are both green and wet. You want to stay within 40-60% humidity so that the pile stays aerobic, since the by-products of anaerobia are foul-smelling *and* attractive to flies..... Unless you have worms. About four pounds of worms in a 2 x 2 foot composter should get you started, and then you can keep the moisture up in the 80% range; you still need to follow the Brown-Surround program, though. If you do go for worms, get a compost thermometer and be sure temps are below 100 degrees F in the bottom of the pile before you introduce them there.... In short, composting is a skill, and like all skills, requires a certain period of time to acquire, as well as some trials and errors.... Hopefully you aren't finding it too trying, and will soon be able to exclaim with pride: "There ain't no flies on us! There ain't no flies on us! There may be flies, on some youse guys.... But there ain't no flies on us!" :-) Good composting, Frank Teuton P.S.--gloves are de rigeur for any work you do in maggoty compost, but not yer baseball glove.....;-) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 09:24:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17078 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21752 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:21:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21591 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:21:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d56-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.56]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA18383 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:21:18 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: Paulownia Trees from China Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:25:56 +1000 Message-ID: <002601bee3f4$a97205a0$383325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990810045749.00afb720@iatp.org> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2165 Mark asked: > another kudzu? After Craig asked: > Is there a useful insight as to introducing yet another foreign plant into our region (Southeast)? Does anyone know of potential problems with this tree? and Bargyla commented: >Incidentally, its wood is very brittle. Tree branches break off so easily. Although I cannot speak of the Southeast USA, I have seen kudzu in this country, gone mad, and I don't think paulownia is any such threat. I had written to Craig before seeing the Mark and Bargyla comments, and so I set out my note to Craig below. The brittleness comes with the very rapid growth - the objective being to get 20 ft in the first year, without side branches, to form the millable log at 8 to 12 years. The tree is thus very vulnerable to windstorms when young. However, it is conventional practice to chop the tree at ground level in its second year, so as to produce a first growth stronger and taller from one selected shoot. At field days here it has been suggested that in the US paulownia is considered good for poor soils. If this were so, we agreed, then your poor soils are like our best and deepest soils. Dennis ===== I wrote previously: Craig We have a couple of dozen paulownia trees in and around an orchard on deep black soil in South East Australia. We also have an investment in a project growing the trees a couple of hundred miles from here - but we have no commercial interest in promoting them to you or others. I would have thought these guys would be your local experts: http://www.paulownia.com/about.html Our experience is that: in shallow soil, the trees do not grow at all. We have friends who put in trees when we put ours in 5 or six years ago. Ours are 20 to 40 feet high, theirs are zero to four feet, on shallow soil. ours have grown from broken roots, where these have been chopped. But only a few, and usefully, being able to transplant these. the flowers in spring have not led to any seeding of trees there are no self generating suckers, as with poplars, alders, etc. I have tried to take cuttings of young branches broken or pruned - they don't take. The forestry project where we have invested presents as a very orderly operation with no appearance of runaway trees. the great virtue of the trees in the operation is rapid straight growth, plus coppicing, so you get quick regrowth You seem to need root cuttings and they then need nurture - they can be stopped . My impression from observation, rather than science is that, certainly in our environment, they are about as dangerous as hydrangeas best wishes Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Aug 11 06:19:34 1999 -0400 Received: from hosting.kornet.net (w4.kornet.nm.kr [168.126.63.21]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA14895 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 17 ([203.229.153.17]) by hosting.kornet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA25474; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:30:39 +0900 (KST) Message-Id: <199908110930.SAA25474@hosting.kornet.net> X-Sender: seoul@ngo99korea.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Demo Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:13:42 +0900 To: cjmorris@compuserve.com, carl@demesta.com, indigos@tpgi.com.au, ecolink@envirolink.org, citrus@geocities.com, webmaster@oedp.de, ip-eac@cfn.cs.Dal.CA, www@eco-pros.com, tkerin@ecorecycle.vic.gov.au, ECOTEMA@aol.com, henro@sequoia.pacweb.com, info@ecotrust.org, nben@web.net, arkabc@ix.netcom.com, mystica@i-next.net, post@ends.co.uk, 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beckystan@pirg.org, envst_info@lifesci.ucsb.edu, pronatura@ccs.ro, renaud.labracherie@uee.org, cmagary@treeo.doce.ufl.edu, fieldschool@gateway.ce.utk.edu, beirouti@cs.ubc.ca, info@vegan.org, vgunpower@earthling.net, vsxe-request@maelstrom.stjohns.edu, info@vegan-welt.de, tom@aworldapart.com, gedge@veg.org, TheVRG@aol.com, VegeTexan@aol.com, steve@veggiedate.COM, VYNet@mhv.net, veggie@vegweb.com, oceania@virtualdolphin.org, Brian@lifepassage.com, vivavegi@novalink.com, pswp@yale.edu, ygf@desktop.org, LizYktn@aol.com, yesbugs@aol.com, camps@yesworld.org, savage@awod.com, chakal@home.com, radin@u.washington.edu, tcosmas@aol.com, wawild@aol.com, mmarchat@erg.com, kballash@lalc.k12.ca.us, wastecap@wastecap.org, cschmidt@water-ed.org, mfield@utm.edu, deger@co.waukesha.wi.us, outreach@web.net, edevalk@dds.nl, wafcliz@igc.org, info@wildernesscommittee.org, tnm2@cornell.edu, xkumar1@hotmail.com From: 1999 Seoul International Conference of NGOs Subject: Invitation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2166 1999 Seoul International Conference of NGOs - Inspire, Empower, Act! - Dear friends, We would like to draw your attention to the 1999 Seoul International Conference of NGOs entitled, "The Role of NGOs in the 21st Century: Inspire, Empower, and Act!", which will provide an impetus to strengthening global network and solidarity among NGOs in meeting the challenges of a new era. The goals of the Conference are to assess commitments made by governments at recent UN world conferences, to advocate fulfillment of these commitments, to engage in policy dialogue with the United Nations and Government agencies, and to enhance communication and collaboration among national, regional and international NGOs, to build networks for more effective implementation of NGO activities in support of the world conference recommendations, to provide an opportunity for NGOs to exchange experiences and seeks common and concrete measures for self-empowerment and alliance-building. So far, more than 500 organizations have expressed their willingness to participate. As of July, the United Nations, UN agencies and international Organizations including ILO, UNCTAD, UNEP, UNESCO, UNIFEM have endorsed the Seoul Conference. A Nobel Laureate and President of Green Cross International Mikhail Gorbachev, Former President of Ireland Mary Robinson, and several high-ranking officers of the United Nations will join the Conference. In addition, featured speakers for Plenaries including Deputy Executive Director of UNICEF Stephen Lewis, Representative of the International Criminal Court, Clarence Dias, Professor of Yale University, Wendell Bell, the President of the International Association of Educators for World Peace Charles Mercieca, Chairman of the World View International Foundation, Dr. Steiner Opstad, and the Secretary-General of CIVICUS Kumi Naidoo have already confirmed their participation. There will be 120 to 150 group sessions for 11 thematic areas. The opportunities are open to all organizations which are willing to organize a group session or serve as a speaker/panelist. We are encouraging organizations to participate in varied group sessions, cultural performance, and exhibition which will be the main events of the Conference. Please refer to the Website of the Seoul Conference at www.ngo99korea.org for more detailed information. Enclosed are additional informations and a registration form which include all the relevant information on scheduling, accommodations, incentive packages and traveling. (* You can register by on-line. http://www.ngo99korea.org) We look forward to your participation and wish your organization prosperity and many blessings in your noble endeavors. Sincerely yours, Secretariat The Korea Organizing Committee The 1999 Seoul International Conference of NGOs Overall Theme : The Role of NGOs in the 21st Century - Inspire, Empower, Act! - Date : October 10-15, 1999 Venue : Olympic Park, Seoul, Korea Co-Hosts: - The Conference of Non-Governmental Organizations in Consultative Relationship with the United Nations (CONGO) - The Executive Committee of the NGOs Associated with the Department of Public Information of the United Nations (NGO/DPI Executive Committee) - Global Cooperation Society (GCS) International /Kyung Hee University, Seoul, Korea Conveners: Dr. Young Seek Choue - Founder and Chancellor of Kyung Hee University - President of the GCS International Dr. Elaine Valdov (Chair of the NGO/DPI Executive Committee) Dr. Afaf Mahfouz (President of the CONGO) Estimated Number of Participants : 3000 - 5000 persons Conference Goals: Vision: It is said that the 21st Century will be an NGO era, marked by widespread civic involvement in all phases of work on behalf of the human family and the United Nations endeavors - human rights, sustainable development, the well-being of children, gender equality, peace and security, among them. In particular, NGOs will serve as vital partners of the United Nations and its member governments in implementing the pledges made at global world conferences of the 1990s. It is crucial that the broadest segment of the NGO community be represented at this historic and important conference at the threshold of the new century. In addition to the goal of following promises made over the past decade, the Conference will offer opportunities for NGOs to reflect together on their successes and challenges and to plan strategies for future action. This Conference will also provide a vital forum for reflection over humanity's common values, ideals and goals at the threshold of the New Millennium. Goals: The primary goals of the conference are : 1) To assess commitments made by governments at recent UN world conferences; The 1990 World Summit for Children (New York) The 1992 UN Conference on Environment and Development (Rio de Janeiro) The 1993 World Conference on Human Rights (Vienna) The 1994 International Conference on Population and Development (Cairo) The 1995 Summit on Social Development (Copenhagen) The 1995 World Conference on Women (Beijing) The 1996 Conference on Human Settlements (Istanbul) The 1996 World Food Summit(Rome) 2) To advocate fulfillment of these commitments ; 3) To engage in policy dialogue with the United Nations and government agencies, with an opportunity for enhanced communications and collaborations among a diverse grouping of NGOs ; 4) To build networks for more effective implementation of NGO activities in support of the world conference recommendations, to provide. Remarks: "I hope that this conference can reflect on the overall state of modern civilization and further explore a new paradigm that could enable the global human community to prosper in peace and harmony." (Dr. Young Seek Choue, Founder-Chancellor of Kyung Hee University System) "We need to explore in Seoul how member states can be more accountable in keeping promises made at these important world conferences." (Dr. Afaf Mahfouz, President of Conference of NGOs in Consultative Relationship with the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations) "This conference can be the birthplace of global partnerships, an opportunity for peoples and governments to come together and work to make life better for all." (Dr. Elaine Valdov, Chair, Executive Committee of NGOs Associated with the Department of Public Information of the United Nations) PROGRAM * Plenary I : The Century that Was The State of the World - An NGO Perspective NGOs : The Success Stories NGOs : The Challenges l * Plenary II : The 21st Century : A Preview Emerging Critical Issues Empowering NGOs - UN/NGO Partnerships Building Partnerships and Alliances *Plenary III : A Look at Human Progress Ethics and Human Values A Case Study : UNESCO and Culture of Peace l Humanity and Technology l * Thematic Areas Peace and Security Environment and Human Settlement Education for All Ethics and Values Human Rights Economic and Social Justice and Development Gender Equality Youth and Children Public Health, Reproductive Health and Mental Health Productive Aging Empowering NGOs * Other Sessions (51 to 75 slots) * Plenary IV : Charting the Course: Issues and Action Plans Recommendations and Final Document (NGO Blueprint) Time Schedule Registration (9:30 - 18:00) Welcoming Reception (5:30 - 21:00) Opening (10:00-12:00) Plenary I (14:00-15:30) Plenary II (16:00-17:30) Plenary III (09:30-11:00) Opening Thematic Plenary I (11:30-13:00) Opening Thematic Plenary II (14:00-15:30) Group Session 1 (16:00-17:30) Group Session 2 (09:30-11:00) Group Session 3 (11:30-13:00) Group Session 4 (14:00-15:30) Group Session 5 (16:00-17:30) October 14 (Thursday) Group Session 6 (09:30-11:00) Closing Thematic Plenary I (11:30-13:00) Closing Thematic Plenary II (14:00-15:30) Wrap-Up Plenary on Empowering NGOs (16:00-17:30) October 15 (Friday) Rapporteurs (9:30-11:00) Plenary IV (11:00-13:00) Closing Session (15:00-16:30) Peace Parade Farewell Party October 16 (Saturday) Departure & Optional Tour (Cultural Events including opera, Korean folk dance and folk music, Regional Caucuses, and other activities will be held through the Conference period) (Speakers for Plenaries) Plenary I : The Century That Was (October 11, Monday 14:00-15:30) Moderator : Olara Otunnu, USG (1) The State of the World : An NGO Perspective Speaker : Stephen Lewis (Deputy Executive Director, UNICEF) (2) NGOs : The Success Stories Speaker : Clarence Diaz (International Criminal Court) Rev. Kyung-Suk Soh, Executive Director of Korea Council of Citizens' Movement (3) NGOs: The Challenges (NGO Representative from China or Japan) Plenary II : The 21st Century: A Preview (October 11, Monday, 16:00-17:30) Moderator : Mary Racelis (1) Emerging Critical Issues Speaker : Wendell Bell, (Professor at Yale, Futurist) (2) Empowering NGOs-UN/NGO Partnerships Speaker : Martin Khor, Director, Third World Network (to be invited) (3) Building Partnerships and Alliances Speaker : Kumi Naidoo (Secretary-General, CIVICUS) Plenary III : A Look at Human Progress (October 12, Tuesday, 09:30-11:00) Moderator : Sara Langwe (President of FEMNET) (1) Ethics and Human Values Speaker : Dr. Dong-Gil KIM or Yu Soo Kim (Korean NGO Representative) (2) Culture of Peace Speaker : Charles Mercieca (President, International Association of Educator for World Peace) (3) Humanity and Technology Speaker : Dr. Steinar Opstad (Chairman, the World View Intentional Foundation) Plenary IV : Charting the Course (October 15, Friday, 11:00-13:00) Moderator : an NGO Representative Platform for Action Plans Recommendations and Final Document Speaker : Chief Rapporteur, Chairman of Drafting Committee Wrap-up speaker : Dr. Fred Sai The Conveners - The Conference of Non-Governmental Organizations in Consultative Relationship with the United Nations - CONGO 777 UN Plaza (8th floor) New York, NY 10017 Tel. (212) 986-8557 Fax. 986-0821 Internet : www.conferenceofngos.org The Conference of NGOs in Consultative Relationship with the United Nations (CONGO) was established in 1948 "to ensure that NGOs in consultative status enjoy the fullest opportunities and all appropriate facilities for performing their consultative functions" as defined in the Charter of the United Nations. CONGO assists the family of non-governmental organizations to improve their relationships with the United Nations and to provide a forum for NGOs with common interests in coming together to study, plan, support, and act. Membership is open to all NGOs in consultative status with the United Nations Economic and Social Council. - The Executive Committee of the Non-Governmental Organizations Associated with the Department of Public Information of the United Nations - NGO/DPI UN NGO Resource Center UN Secretariat L IB-31 New York, NY 10017 Tel. (212) 963-7233 Fax. 963-2819 E-mail : evaldov@undp.org The Executive Committee of NGOs associated with the Department of Public Information of the United Nations (NGO/DPI) is an advisory and liaison board representing the interests of NGOs working with the informational outreach arm of the world body. It provides a forum for NGOs to network, build alliances and create action plans, in keeping with the goals of UNDPI to forge and maintain links to peoples around the world. - The Global Cooperation Society International - GCS International Kyung Hee University Seoul 130-701, Korea Tel. 82-2-961-0216 Fax. 961-0225 Internet : www.gcs-ngo.org The Global Cooperation Society (GCS) International was established in 1978 with the purpose of helping to create a better human society . "through the harmonization of material prosperity with spiritual maturity and the integration of individual interests and communal ethics." The GCS International is the institutional embodiment of a movement founded by 67 scholars and international leaders, including the chancellor of Kyung Hee University System, Dr. Young Seek Choue. Headquartered in Seoul, the movement has chapters in 35 countries. THE HOST Kyung Hee University (in Seoul, Korea) Dongdaemun-gu, Seoul 130-701, Korea Tel. 82-2-961-0030 Fax. 962-4343 Internet : www.kyunghee.ac.kr Kyung Hee University was established in 1949 under the guidance of Dr. Young Seek Choue, who continues to serve as its Chancellor. The University was founded on the principle of developing citizens to foster a world of peace and harmony. Marking its first half-century in 1999, Kyung Hee University has 17 colleges, an extensive library and museum system, a number of affiliated research institutes, and an advanced medical center. It has a 245-acre campus in Seoul, a 510-acre campus in Suwon and a third campus in Kwangnung housing the Graduate Institute of Peace Studies, which was the recipient of the 1993 UNESCO Prize for Peace Education. (Supporting Organizations ) The following UN agencies and international organizations have endorsed and, in most part, are expected to participate in the 1999 Seoul International Conference of NGOs (as of July 7, 1999). United Nations (UN) Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) International Labour Organization (ILO) International Organization for Migration (IOM) Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) Organization Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) The Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS(UNAIDS) United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (UNHCHR) Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) United Nations Children Fund (UNICEF) Secretariat of the United Nations International Decade for Natural Disaster Reduction (UNIDNDR) United Nations Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM) United Nations University (UNU) United Nations Volunteers (UNV) World Bank The conference organizers are seeking co-sponsors from within the broad United Nations family and other international organizations. For further information, please contact the Secretariat of the Conference. Korea Organizing Committee Wonseo Building Room 305 Wonseo Dong, Jongno Gu, Seoul, 110-280, Korea Tel. 82-2-762-2323 Fax. 762-9833 E-mail : seoul@ngo99korea.org Internet : www.ngo99korea.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- REGISTRATION FORM *You can register by on-line. (http://www.ngo99korea.org)* One per participant. Forms may be photocopied. The Seoul International Conference of NGOs will be held in Seoul from October 10 to 16, 1999. Please return this form with payment in US dollars to the Korea Organizing Committee by fax, mail, or e-mail. The Korea Organizing Committee #305 Wonseo Bldg., 171, Wonseo-dong, Chongno-gu, Seoul 110-280, Korea Tel : +(82-2)762-2323 Fax: +(82-2)762-9833 E-mail : seoul@ngo99korea.org Website : www.ngo99korea.org I. REGISTRATION 1. Participant : Mr.___ Mrs.____ Ms.____ Other_____ First Name _____________________________Family Name ______________________ Date of Birth (dd/mm/yy) _________________________________________________ Nationality _______________________________ Passport No. ______________________________ Address _________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________ Country __________________________________ Postal/Zip Code ______________________________ Tel _______________________________________ Fax ________________________________________ E-mail __________________________________________________________________ Which theme(s) are you interested in? * Peace and Security _____ * Environment and Human Settlement ______ * Ethics and Values _____ * Youth and Children _________ * Education for All _______ * Economic and Social Development _______ * Human Rights _____ * Gender Equality _________ * Productive Aging _______ * Empowering NGOs ________ * Public Health, Reproductive Health and Mental Health ______ 2. Organization Summary Are you a member of an NGO? ( ) No ( ) Yes Name of Institutional Affiliation_________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________ Position/Title in Organization __________________________________________ Address of Organization _________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________ Country______________________________ Postal/Zip Code __________________ Tel _________________________________ Fax ______________________________ E-mail __________________________________________________________________ Mail should be sent to : ( )Home ( )Organization 3. Registration Fee (Non-refundable) * The registration fee covers all meetings, opening and closing sessions, welcoming and farewell receptions, a ticket of musical concert, and a conference kit which includes a program book, a souvenir, a toto beg, and tickets for Korean folk music. * Discounts for group registrations will be offered : more than 10 persons 10% off; more than 20 persons 15% off; more than 30 persons 20% off. Adult Participant ( ) By 30 August 1999 : US$ 80 ( ) After 30 August 1999 : US$ 100 ( ) Student or youth under age of 24 discount registration fee* ( ) By 30 August 1999 : US$ 10 ( ) After 30 August 1999 : US$ 30 * Please enclose proof of enrollment or a document showing date of birth. * My registration fee is US$ _______________ 4. Working Languages Simultaneous interpretation will be offered in English, French, and Korean for the Opening and Closing Ceremonies and Plenaries. 5. Activities Sign-up 1) Cultural Activities l Type and Description of the Proposed Activities __________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________ Expected Duration of Activity __________ Hours __________ Minutes Number of Performers __________ Persons Preferred Date for Activity (dd/mm/yy) ____________________________ 2) Exhibition Space Rental US$ 50 per booth per day includes: 1 Booth (Total Space : 3m x 3m x 2.4m) 1 Table (1. 8m x 0.8) 2 Chairs 220 Voltage Facility Additional equipment can be rented upon request. Total Number of Booths __________ Total Number of Days __________ (From _____________ To _______________) TOTAL AMOUNT US$ ________________________ Cancellation request should be notified to the Korea Organizing Committee in writing. The date of receipt of your cancellation notice is your cancellation date. * Cancellation before 30 August : full refund * Cancellation after 30 August : 50% refund * Cancellation after 30 September : No refund 6. Hotel Reservation (Please skip this section if you are making your own accommodation arrangements.) The following hotel accommodations have been arranged by the Korea Organizing Committee. If you would like to make a reservation, please complete the form below and return it with the registration form and the required deposit amount in US dollars. * The rates are fixed in Korean currency, Won. As the exchange rate slightly fluctuates, the charges may vary accordingly. For your guidance, the exchange rate as of 7 July 1999 is US$1 = 1,170won. Using this rate, the hotel prices range from US $15 to US$240 per person including breakfast, taxes and service charge. Land Package Rate per night per person : (Please check in the appropriate box) Deposit in US$ per room per person Number of room(s) to reserve Group 1 (Youth Hostel class) : Deposit - $80 (Single Rm : 35,000~50,000Won) (Double/Twin Rm : 25,000~33,500Won) (Four-Bed Rm : 18,000~23,000Won) Group 2 (Tourist class) : Deposit - $120 (Single Rm : 73,000~110,000Won) (Double/Twin Rm : 45,000~62,000Won) (Four-Bed Rm : 40,750 Won) Group 3(First class) : Deposit - $150 (Single Rm : 151,000~160,000Won) (Double/Twin Rm : 82,000~86,500Won) Group 4 (Deluxe class) - Deposit $250 (Single Rm : 211,000~279,000Won) (Double/Twin RM : 115,000~162,000 Won) Note: Housing for Group I is located outside of Seoul and 40 minutes to one hour away from the conference venue. There will be limited places for shopping and other activities around the area. Shuttle buses will be available to and from the venue and the lodgings with minimum charges. *TOTAL DEPOSIT AMOUNT : US$ _____________ (Payment must be made at the time of registration) * Check-in Date : __________ (October 1999) Check-out Date : __________ (October 1999) * Total Number of Night(s) ________ * Cancellation notice must be sent to the Korea Organizing Committee in writing. The date of receipt of your cancellation notice is your cancellation date. Cancellation penalty : One week prior to check-in date: 10% of the deposit One day prior to check-in date: 50% of the deposit On check-in date : 100 % of the deposit If you would like to share rooms with yourcolleagues, please indicate under the following space. _______________________________________________________________________ 7. Voluntary Contribution * Your voluntary contribution would be appreciated to help the participation of financially constrained NGOs or youths/students. CONTRIBUTION AMOUNT : US$ ________________ 8. Payment Registration Fee US$ _______________ Hotel Deposit US$ _______________ Exhibition Space Rental US$ _______________ Voluntary Contribution US$ _______________ TOTAL : US$ ________________ 9. Method of Payment * Bank Wire Transfer* To be transferred to : Korea Exchange Bank, Kyedong Branch Swift BIC Code : KOEXKRSE Account number : 117-JSD-101954 Account holder : Korea Organizing Committee Remittal (Name of person paying)_____________________________________ Name of Bank ________________________________________________________ * Please enclose a copy of the transfer receipt. *Credit Card ( )VISA ( ) MASTER ( ) AMERICAN EXPRESS Card Number ______________________ Expiration Date ___________________ Name on Card __________________________________________________________ I authorize US$________________ to be charged on my credit card. Signature _______________________________ Date _______________________ * International Money Order denominated in US$ and made payable to : Korea Organizing Committee (In US dollars on a check drawn on a US Bank.) 10. Optional Tours Tours will be arranged and conducted by the Worldwide Express Co. Ltd. Please make reservations with the Korean Organizing Committee three days prior to the tour date. Various daily tours are also available to downtown Seoul and historical places. Contact the Korean Organizing Committee for more information and on-site tour desk will be available during the conference for arrangements. * Two-day tours after the Conference (Tours will leave with a minimum of 10 persons) Code : T15-1 Course Fee (Won) Mark ( ) - Andong Cultural Tour : 270,000 ( ) - Pusoksa Buddist Temple : 270,000 ( ) - Hahoe Folk Village : 270,000 ( ) - Tosansowon Confucian Academy : ( ) Code : T16-1 Course-Fee (Won) Mark( ) - Kyoungju Excursion (Historical City) : 270,000 ( ) Code : T16-2 Course-Fee(Won) Mark ( ) - Mt. Sorak Tour : 250,000 ( ) Includes transportation, hotel accommodation, meals, and an English speaking guide. *A Three-day tour after the Conference Tours will leave with a minimum of 10 persons Code : T16-3 Course-Fee (Won) Mark( ) - Cheju Island Tour Fee : 605,000 (Won) --- ( ) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Application form for Group Session/Workshop The 1999 Seoul International Conference of NGOs October 10-16, 1999 Under each theme of the 1999 Seoul International Conference of NGOs, there will be workshops (or group sessions) of 90 minutes each. You are welcome to submit an application by August 30 to organize a workshop in any of the following areas. Official languages of this workshop will be English and Korean. National and/or language groups are welcome to bring interpreters or mobile equipment * Peace and Security _____ * Environment and Human Settlement _____ * Ethics and Values _____ * Youth and Children _________ * Education for All _______ * Social and Economic Development ______ * Human Rights _____ * Gender Equality _________ * Productive Aging _______ * Empowering NGOs ________ * Public Health, Reproductive Health and Mental Health ______ ORGANIZATION INFORMATION Name of Organization ___________________________________________________ Contact Person __________________________ Title ________________________ Address ________________________________________________________________ Tel _________________Fax ________________ E-mail _____________________ WORKSHOP PROPOSAL Proposed Title of the Workshop/Panel Discussion _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Purpose _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Organization(s) in Charge _______________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Organization(s) Involved ________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Speakers ________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ Preferred Date(s) and Time ______________________________________________ #305 Wonseo Bldg., 171 Wonseo-dong, Chongno-gu, Seoul 110-280, Korea Phone : (82-2) 762-2323 Fax : (82-2)762-9833 Internet : www.ngo99korea.org E-mail : kocngo@ngo99korea.org * If you need more space for description, please use additional papers. * You can register by on-line. (http://www.ngo99korea.org) From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Aug 11 08:19:56 1999 -0400 Received: from barra.domain.com.br (barra.domain.com.br [200.196.128.5]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA16180 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dorival (200.196.131.61) by barra.domain.com.br (NPlex 4.0.024); Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:50:58 -0300 Message-ID: <017f01bee3ef$bcdf6b00$3d83c4c8@dorival> Reply-To: "BIOSFERA" From: "BIOSFERA" To: Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?WORLD_SEMI-ARID=9299?= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:50:28 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_017C_01BEE3D6.9770A140" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2167 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_017C_01BEE3D6.9770A140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sir/ Madam, I would like to inform you that the Brazilian Society for the = Environment (BIOSFERA) is promoting; in the period 29 November to 2 = December, 1999; and carrying out, an International Symposium on = Sustainable Development in Semi-Arid Regions (WORLD SEMI-ARID=9299). The = event is to be held in the city of Jo=E3o Pessoa, Paraiba, Brazil, with = the full support of the Ministry of the Environment, Ministry of = Agriculture and the Government from the State of Paraiba. You will be able to find attached the preliminary program of the = symposium and we would very much appreciate receiving your comments or = suggestions on it, ideally before the 15 August, 1999, when the final = program of the event will be defined. We would especially like to ask you for your collaboration with = reference to the following items: 1.. Suggestions of themes for conferences or round table events;=20 2.. Recommendations of names, (along with their addresses or = e-mails), of potential speakers from your country or from other = countries. In this respect, BIOSFERA is quite willing to carry the costs = of expenses of flight and accommodation for up to 30 speakers;=20 3.. Recommendations of Institutions of your country or abroad with = experience of projects within the area of sustainable development in = semi-arid regions;=20 4.. Recommendations of development agencies, agencies of = international co-operation or financial agencies experienced in = financing sustainable development projects for semi-arid regions. On the = occasion of WORLD SEMI-ARID=9299, some projects from the semi-arid = region of the Northeast of Brazil will be presented, as diverse projects = are still dependent on international financing. We would also like to invite you, if possible, to be one of the = lecturers of WORLD SEMI-ARID=9299 and so could you please inform us as = to if you accept our invite, by the 15 August, 1999 at the latest. = Please also indicate which is your principle field of interest for a = conference or round table. If you accept our invite, could you please send us, at the latest the 15 = September, 1999, via e-mail or on floppy disk, an extended abstract of = your work. Each abstract should have a maximum of 3,500 words or 6 typed = pages. The official languages of the event for oral presentations will be = English and Portuguese with a simultaneous translation service from one = to the other. However for any resulting publications from the event, = work in English, Portuguese, French or Spanish will be accepted. Lastly, I would like to inform you that BIOSFERA is a Brazilian NGO, = that works principally in the areas of congresses and events on the = environment and also in environmental training. You are welcome to visit = our web site to find out more about our organisation at: = www.biosfera.com.br. In advance I would like to thank you for your valuable collaboration, Yours Sincerely Prof. Dorival C. Bruni President of BIOSFERA Postal Address: Brazilian Society for the Environment (BIOSFERA), P.O.Box 2432, Rio de Janeiro, RJ, CEP: 20001-970. Tel/Fax: (+55 21) 221-0155/ 2217626 Tel: (+55 21) 252-1631 E-mail: biosfera@biosfera.com.br Web site: www.biosfera.com.br INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT OF SEMI-ARID REGIONS = - WORLD SEMI-ARID=B499 - WSA=B499 Convention Center of the Hotel Tamba=FA, Jo=E3o Pessoa, Para=EDba, Brazil, 29th of November to 2nd of December de = 1999. OBJECTIVE (1) To present the progress and advances in the world within the area of = sustainable development in semi-arid regions; (2) to carry out = conferences, round table events and discussions on technical, political, = economic and social aspects, referring to semi-arid regions; (3) to = stimulate international interchange and cooperation; (4) to analyze the = recommendations of the international financial agencies and the = technical cooperation agencies in supporting the projects carried out in = developing countries. TARGET PUBLIC The event will have the participation of professionals, specialists, = professors, researchers, governmental authorities, managers of both = financial agencies and international cooperation, entrepreneurs, = diplomats, representatives of NGO=B4s and people interested in = sustainable development in semi-arid regions within the whole world. = WSA=B499 will count on the support and participation of delegates from = more than forty countries, including the biggest countries of Latin = America and the Caribbean, as well as the United States, Canada, France, = Germany, Italy, England, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Austria, Belgium, = Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway and Finland. Also delegates are = expected from Japan, South Korea, Australia, South Africa and Israel, = along with diverse countries of Eastern Europe, including Russia, = Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary. Additionally in = WSA=9299, we expect to have representatives from China, Mongolia, India, = Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, Ethiopia, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, and = Zaire e Tanzania. We are awaiting the confirmation of participation from = other countries. THEMES OF THE SYMPOSIUM 1. The Environmental Problems of the Semi-Arid Regions: Reality and = Perspectives 2. How to Optimize the Utilization of Hydric Resources of Semi-Arid = Regions 3. The Agricultural Inclination of the Semi-Arid Regions: How to = Reorganize and Optimize the agriculture and to Promote Rural Development 4.How to reduce the Vulnerability of the Semi-Arid Regions=20 5.The Question of Poverty in the Semi-Arid Regions: Diagnosis=92s and = Alternatives to overcome these Problems=20 6.Strategies to Combat the Drought in Semi-Arid Regions: World Progress = and Advances=20 7.The Urban Question in the Semi-Arid Regions: Urban, Environmental, = Economic and Social Aspects=20 8.Use of New Technology in the development of Semi-Arid Regions, with = Special Emphasis on Energy Generation and Supply of Hydric Resources=20 9.Recommendations of Financial Agencies and International Cooperation = Agencies in Carrying out Sustainable Development Programs in Semi-Arid = Regions of the Earth=20 10.Problems and Solutions for Sustainable Development in Semi-Arid = Regions: The Political and Technical Vision of the Developed and = Developing Countries=20 11.Impacts of Climatic Variations in Semi-Arid Regions=20 12.The Economic Question in the Semi-Arid Regions: Present Status and = Prospects=20 13.The Transposition of Drainage Basins in the Semi-Arid Regions: = International Experiences=20 14.The Sustainable Development of the Semi-Arid Region of the Northeast = of Brazil: The Planning and Actions of their Respective Governments PANEL OF FINANCIAL AGENCIES As part of the Symposium there will be a special panel aimed at = presenting, analyzing and discussing the actions and the projects = carried out in different semi-arid regions in the whole world. As such, = representatives from grand international financial agencies (e.g. World = Bank, Interamerican Development Bank =96 IDB) and from International = Cooperation Agencies from all the developed countries, along with = representatives of international bodies (United Nations, European Union, = Organization of the American States and others) are invited to = participate in the panel. Through this panel, the mechanisms and = procedures used by international agencies and institutions to promote = the sustainable development of semi-arid regions will be analyzed. There = will also be presentations and discussions on the successes and failures = of previous projects and the directives for planning future action. The = panel is open to the participation of all interested national and = international agencies. Those interested parties can get in contact with = the Organizing Committee of WSA=B499 by the very latest, the 15 of = September, 1999. INSTRUCTIONS FOR PRESENTING PAPERS The invited speakers of the round tables and technical sessions and also = the voluntary speakers should send extended abstracts of their work = before, or at the very latest, the 15 of September, 1999. Each extended = abstract should contain upto 3,500 words, or, six typed pages. The text = can be written in English, Portuguese, Spanish or French. Please send it = on a floppy disk (1.44 MB) PC compatible or by e-mail, with the name of = the author responsible for the presentation. During the event, the oral = presentations can be done in either English or Portuguese. ORGANIZATION OF WSA=B499 The organization of WSA=B499 is the responsibility of the Brazilian = Society for the Environment (BIOSFERA). The event is supported by the = Ministry of the Environment, Ministry of National Integration, Ministry = of Agriculture, Government of the State of Para=EDba and the National = Department of Works against Drought - DNOCS, among other institutions. ENTRY FORM OF SHOWING INTEREST IN WSA=9299 Personal Details: Surname: _________________ First Name: ________________________ Institution: ___________________________________________________ Address: ____________________________________________________ City: _____________ State / Province: _______ Zipcode: _______________=20 Country: _____________ Tel.: _______________ Fax: _________________ E-mail: ______________________ Web Site: ________________________ Abstract of Curriculum Vitae: > > > > > Would you be available to participate in WSA=B499? ( )Yes, with air ticket and accommodation costs covered by WSA=B499 ( )Yes. My institution could pay my expenses of air ticket and = accomodation ( )No, I could not participate in the event=20 Which theme would you propose as a conference?=20 ______________________________________________________________ Additionally, would you like to participate as: ( )speaker or ( )debater = in any of the round tables of the event? ( )yes ( )no Which themes are of interest to you? ________________________________________________________________ With reference to the themes of WSA=B499, what alterations would you = propose? If possible, please suggest; alterations of themes, new themes = or the exclusion of themes. _____________________________________________________________ If possible, could you please recommend any names of people potentially = interested in such a conference, in your country or another. Please = include their respective telephone numbers, fax or e-mail address. ______________________________________________________________ Other comments, criticisms and suggestions ______________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________ ORGANIZING COMMITTEE OF WSA=B499 BRAZILIAN SOCIETY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT - BIOSFERA P.O. Box 2432, 20001-970 =96 Rio de Janeiro, RJ, Brasil Tel / Fax: + (55 =96 21) 2210155, 2217626 Tel.: + (55 =96 21) 2521631 E-Mail: biosfera@biosfera.com.br ------=_NextPart_000_017C_01BEE3D6.9770A140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Dear Sir/ Madam,

    I would like to inform you that the Brazilian Society for the = Environment=20 (BIOSFERA) is promoting; in the period 29 November to 2 December, 1999; = and=20 carrying out, an International Symposium on Sustainable = Development in=20 Semi-Arid Regions (WORLD SEMI-ARID’99). The event is to be = held in=20 the city of João Pessoa, Paraiba, Brazil, with the full support = of the=20 Ministry of the Environment, Ministry of Agriculture and the Government = from the=20 State of Paraiba.

    You will be able to find attached the preliminary program of the = symposium=20 and we would very much appreciate receiving your comments or suggestions = on it,=20 ideally before the 15 August, 1999, when the final program of the event = will be=20 defined.

    We would especially like to ask you for your collaboration with = reference to=20 the following items:

    1. Suggestions of themes for conferences or round table events;=20
    2. Recommendations of names, (along with their addresses or = e-mails), of=20 potential speakers from your country or from other countries. In = this=20 respect, BIOSFERA is quite willing to carry the costs of expenses of = flight=20 and accommodation for up to 30 speakers;=20
    3. Recommendations of Institutions of your country or abroad with=20 experience of projects within the area of sustainable development in = semi-arid regions;=20
    4. Recommendations of development agencies, agencies of = international=20 co-operation or financial agencies experienced in financing = sustainable=20 development projects for semi-arid regions. On the occasion of WORLD = SEMI-ARID’99, some projects from the semi-arid region of the = Northeast=20 of Brazil will be presented, as diverse projects are still dependent = on=20 international financing.

    We would also like to invite you, if possible, to be one of the = lecturers of=20 WORLD SEMI-ARID’99 and so could you please inform us as to if you = accept=20 our invite, by the 15 August, 1999 at the latest. Please also indicate = which is=20 your principle field of interest for a conference or round table.

    If you accept our invite, could you please send us, at the latest the = 15=20 September, 1999, via e-mail or on floppy disk, an extended abstract of = your=20 work. Each abstract should have a maximum of 3,500 words or 6 typed = pages.

    The official languages of the event for oral presentations will be = English=20 and Portuguese with a simultaneous translation service from one to the = other.=20 However for any resulting publications from the event, work in English,=20 Portuguese, French or Spanish will be accepted.

    Lastly, I would like to inform you that BIOSFERA is a Brazilian NGO, = that=20 works principally in the areas of congresses and events on the = environment and=20 also in environmental training. You are welcome to visit our web site to = find=20 out more about our organisation at: www.biosfera.com.br.

    In advance I would like to thank you for your valuable = collaboration,

    Yours Sincerely

    Prof. Dorival C. Bruni

    President of BIOSFERA

    Postal Address:

    Brazilian Society for the Environment (BIOSFERA),

    P.O.Box 2432,

    Rio de Janeiro, RJ,

    CEP: 20001-970.

    Tel/Fax: (+55 21) 221-0155/ 2217626

    Tel: (+55 21) 252-1631

    E-mail: biosfera@biosfera.com.br

    =

    Web site: www.biosfera.com.br

    INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT OF = SEMI-ARID=20 REGIONS - WORLD SEMI-ARID´99 - WSA´99

    =

    Convention Center of the Hotel Tambaú,

    João Pessoa, Paraíba, Brazil, 29th of = November to=20 2nd of December de 1999.

    OBJECTIVE

    (1) To present the progress and advances in the world within the area = of=20 sustainable development in semi-arid regions; (2) to carry out = conferences,=20 round table events and discussions on technical, political, economic and = social=20 aspects, referring to semi-arid regions; (3) to stimulate international=20 interchange and cooperation; (4) to analyze the recommendations of the=20 international financial agencies and the technical cooperation agencies = in=20 supporting the projects carried out in developing countries.

    TARGET PUBLIC

    The event will have the participation of professionals, specialists,=20 professors, researchers, governmental authorities, managers of both = financial=20 agencies and international cooperation, entrepreneurs, diplomats,=20 representatives of NGO´s and people interested in sustainable = development=20 in semi-arid regions within the whole world. WSA´99 will count on = the=20 support and participation of delegates from more than forty countries, = including=20 the biggest countries of Latin America and the Caribbean, as well as the = United=20 States, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, England, Spain, Portugal, = Holland,=20 Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway and Finland. Also = delegates are expected from Japan, South Korea, Australia, South Africa = and=20 Israel, along with diverse countries of Eastern Europe, including = Russia,=20 Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary. Additionally in = WSA’99, we=20 expect to have representatives from China, Mongolia, India, Saudi = Arabia,=20 Turkey, Egypt, Ethiopia, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, and Zaire e = Tanzania. We are=20 awaiting the confirmation of participation from other=20 countries.

    THEMES OF THE SYMPOSIUM

    1. The Environmental Problems of the Semi-Arid Regions: Reality and=20 Perspectives

    2. How to Optimize the Utilization of Hydric Resources of Semi-Arid=20 Regions

    3. The Agricultural Inclination of the Semi-Arid Regions: How to = Reorganize=20 and Optimize the agriculture and to Promote Rural Development

    4.How to reduce the Vulnerability of the Semi-Arid Regions

    5.The Question of Poverty in the Semi-Arid Regions: Diagnosis’s = and=20 Alternatives to overcome these Problems

    6.Strategies to Combat the Drought in Semi-Arid Regions: World = Progress and=20 Advances

    7.The Urban Question in the Semi-Arid Regions: Urban, Environmental, = Economic=20 and Social Aspects

    8.Use of New Technology in the development of Semi-Arid Regions, with = Special=20 Emphasis on Energy Generation and Supply of Hydric Resources

    9.Recommendations of Financial Agencies and International Cooperation = Agencies in Carrying out Sustainable Development Programs in Semi-Arid = Regions=20 of the Earth

    10.Problems and Solutions for Sustainable Development in Semi-Arid = Regions:=20 The Political and Technical Vision of the Developed and Developing = Countries=20

    11.Impacts of Climatic Variations in Semi-Arid Regions

    12.The Economic Question in the Semi-Arid Regions: Present Status and = Prospects

    13.The Transposition of Drainage Basins in the Semi-Arid Regions:=20 International Experiences

    14.The Sustainable Development of the Semi-Arid Region of the = Northeast of=20 Brazil: The Planning and Actions of their Respective=20 Governments

    PANEL OF FINANCIAL AGENCIES

    As part of the Symposium there will be a special panel aimed at = presenting,=20 analyzing and discussing the actions and the projects carried out in = different=20 semi-arid regions in the whole world. As such, representatives from = grand=20 international financial agencies (e.g. World Bank, Interamerican = Development=20 Bank – IDB) and from International Cooperation Agencies from all = the=20 developed countries, along with representatives of international bodies = (United=20 Nations, European Union, Organization of the American States and others) = are=20 invited to participate in the panel. Through this panel, the mechanisms = and=20 procedures used by international agencies and institutions to promote = the=20 sustainable development of semi-arid regions will be analyzed. There = will also=20 be presentations and discussions on the successes and failures of = previous=20 projects and the directives for planning future action. The panel is = open to the=20 participation of all interested national and international agencies. = Those=20 interested parties can get in contact with the Organizing Committee of=20 WSA´99 by the very latest, the 15 of September, = 1999.

    INSTRUCTIONS FOR PRESENTING PAPERS

    The invited speakers of the round tables and technical sessions and = also the=20 voluntary speakers should send extended abstracts of their work before, = or at=20 the very latest, the 15 of September, 1999. Each extended abstract = should=20 contain upto 3,500 words, or, six typed pages. The text can be written = in=20 English, Portuguese, Spanish or French. Please send it on a floppy disk = (1.44=20 MB) PC compatible or by e-mail, with the name of the author responsible = for the=20 presentation. During the event, the oral presentations can be done in = either=20 English or Portuguese.

    ORGANIZATION OF WSA´99

    The organization of WSA´99 is the responsibility of the = Brazilian=20 Society for the Environment (BIOSFERA). The event is supported by the = Ministry=20 of the Environment, Ministry of National Integration, Ministry of = Agriculture,=20 Government of the State of Paraíba and the National Department of = Works=20 against Drought - DNOCS, among other institutions.

    ENTRY FORM OF SHOWING INTEREST IN WSA’99

    Personal Details:

    Surname: _________________ First Name: ________________________

    Institution: ___________________________________________________

    Address: ____________________________________________________

    City: _____________ State / Province: _______ Zipcode: = _______________

    Country: _____________ Tel.: _______________ Fax: = _________________

    E-mail: ______________________ Web Site: ________________________

    Abstract of Curriculum Vitae:

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

    Would you be available to participate in WSA´99?

    ( )Yes, with air ticket and accommodation costs covered by = WSA´99

    ( )Yes. My institution could pay my expenses of air ticket and=20 accomodation

    ( )No, I could not participate in the event

    Which theme would you propose as a conference?

    ______________________________________________________________

    Additionally, would you like to participate as: ( )speaker or ( = )debater in=20 any of the round tables of the event? ( )yes ( )no

    Which themes are of interest to you?

    ________________________________________________________________

    With reference to the themes of WSA´99, what alterations would = you=20 propose? If possible, please suggest; alterations of themes, new themes = or the=20 exclusion of themes.

    _____________________________________________________________

     

    If possible, could you please recommend any names of people = potentially=20 interested in such a conference, in your country or another. Please = include=20 their respective telephone numbers, fax or e-mail address.

    ______________________________________________________________

    Other comments, criticisms and suggestions

    __________________________________________________________= ____

    __________________________________________________________= _____

    ORGANIZING COMMITTEE OF WSA´99

    BRAZILIAN SOCIETY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT - BIOSFERA

    P.O. Box 2432, 20001-970 – Rio de Janeiro, RJ,=20 Brasil

    Tel / Fax: + (55 – 21) 2210155, 2217626

    Tel.: + (55 – 21) 2521631 E-Mail: biosfera@biosfera.com.br

    =
    ------=_NextPart_000_017C_01BEE3D6.9770A140-- From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 10:11:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18367 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17861 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17857 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from the-network-asy-94.rutgers.edu (the-network-asy-94.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.94]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12928 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:50:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: the-network-asy-94.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.94] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <37B19B4E.3FBD@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:48:30 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: RE: MAGGOTS, andbody ever hear of "limberneck"? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2168 I picked up another tip about maggots recently, and am seeking an expansion of this knowledge, especially in view of the idea of feeding the maggots to fish. After a big picnic this summer, the refuse got tossed into a metal 55 gallon drum. (As usual, it is very difficult to get a large group of people to do what you want them to with their waste) Anyway, a day or so later, my Grandad and I were out there and he noted with disgust that there were maggots in the can and mentioned he would have to burn the whole mess, which he proceeded to do without delay. Ignorant creature that I am, I asked about the use of the chickens to clean up the maggot problem. "No! Fly maggots will kill your chickens," he says. "They get all wobbly and can't hold their heads up, then they fall over and eventually die." He didn't know the causative agent, but mentioned that these symptoms were well known and were referred to as "limberneck." Can anyone provide more details? Loren M. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 10:23:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18679 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28230 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:18:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28127 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:21:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Valerie Berton'" , Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Ten Years of SARE on the Web (continued) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:20:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2169 Colleagues: This month we continue our chapter-by-chapter posting of Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress. It is available on the Web at http://www.sare.org/san/10yrsofsan/ OR go to our home page and click on Publications. http://www.sare.org/ Ten Years of SARE showcases accomplishments of a unique USDA program that has made a difference in the lives of farmers and ranchers across the United States and Island Protectorates. To select a group of innovative, interesting and impactful projects, SARE staff chose one project from each of its four regions for the following 10 categories: Crop Production, Animal Production, Natural Resource Protection, Marketing, Community Development, Education, Pest Management, Horticulture, Professional Development, and Integrated Farm/Ranch Systems. One of the 10 categories will be highlighted each month. August Highlight: HORTICULTURE. For a free print version of this colorful, 96-page book, contact me via e-mail or use the contact information below. Be sure to send your mailing address. Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 10:46:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19287 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10309 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:41:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from milkyway.uark.edu (mailgate.uark.edu [130.184.7.105]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10165 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by milkyway.uark.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21409; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:40:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from 607u.uark.edu ([130.184.56.145]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id IAA07141; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:41:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908111341.IAA07141@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Holly Born" To: riaanb@iafrica.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:38:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Tender larval care-maggots Reply-to: hollyb@ncatark.uark.edu In-reply-to: <000501bee3d5$1f5bc640$9cc007c4@spock1> References: <799478e7.24e2387d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2170 Riaan and everyone: I spent a week at the Songhai Centre while I was in the Peace Corps (Togo) and learned their maggot raising system. I brought it back to the farmers in my village and it was VERY successful. They were raising various types of poultry and fish (tilapia, catfish, and some native species) and found the maggots to be an excellent source of free protein. I would be very interested in hearing about any problems people have encountered in using maggots as feed. I fed my own flock of chickens and guineas on maggots and they did very well. I can say from my own experience and the experience of some 30 farmers that none of our animals seemed to suffer any adverse effects from it and neither did anyone who ate the fish or poultry. Thanks for your letter! Holly Born Holly Born, Program Specialist ATTRA (Appropriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas) PO Box 3657 Fayetteville, AR 72702 (501) 442-9824/1-800-346-9140 Fax:(501) 442-9842 E-mail:hollyb@ncatark.uark.edu Web:http://www.attra.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 10:54:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19434 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16163 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:49:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16075 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:53:02 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'hhusher@zoo.uvm.edu'" Subject: Northeast SARE Livestock and Forage Funding Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:52:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2171 August 11, 1999 For immediate release Contact Helen Husher at Northeast SARE (hhusher@zoo.uvm.edu) Northeast SARE Announces Changes in Livestock and Forage Funding The Northeast Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education program is initiating changes in its research grant application process in two areas-livestock management (including small, non-dairy livestock such as chickens) and forage crops. "This targeted change is a part of program evolution," said Fred Magdoff, the regional coordinator for Northeast SARE. "We want to work closely with applicants in these two areas and discuss our ideas about project outcomes. By changing the way applications are developed, we hope to improve and clarify what projects will do." One result of this change is that all the research grant applicants in these two areas will now attend a workshop, set for October 27, 1999 in Albany, New York, to discuss the new application format and to explore the implications for project design. "We will still look for projects in applied research with the primary focus on farmers," Magdoff explains, "and the purpose of this pilot project is to see how we can use the application process to develop proposals closer to the SARE mission." That mission is to explore and support sustainable and innovative farming practices that are profitable, environmentally sound, and beneficial to the community. Anyone who plans to develop a Northeast SARE research grant application in livestock or forage crops should get in touch with the Northeast SARE office by October 6 to make a workshop reservation. The number is 802/656-0471; the e-mail address is nesare@zoo.uvm.edu. Northeast SARE will pay for travel to the workshop and for accommodations; the workshop itself is free. ************************************* Helen Husher Writer/Editor Northeast Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) Program Hills Building -- Carrigan Drive University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405-0082 Phone: 802-656-0554 Fax: 802-656-4656 ************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 11:13:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA19750 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22085 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:59:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22021 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([152.166.20.222]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 279; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:02:43 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990811090113.00928530@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:01:13 -0500 To: Andy Clark , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: There may be a big piece on McNeil Lehrer today on gmos/wto In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2172 There may be a big piece on McNeil Lehrer today on gmos/wto Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 11:41:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20699 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12655 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12643 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA19117; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17443; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:30:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:30:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Klaus Wiegand cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Old ag publications and the cost of memory In-Reply-To: <9F04B6200C9@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2173 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Klaus Wiegand wrote: > >1) Many land grant college of ag libraries have large holdings of > >these old publications; > > maybe someone would be willing to initiate the "project > gutenberg of agriculture" This website is doing just that: The Soil and Health Library http://www.soilandhealth.org/index.html go to the page listed: 1) Radical Agriculture, "Agriculture Library" "Welcome To The Holistic Agriculture Library" [someone should ask the webmaster to remove the high ascii characters from the URL for this page] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 11:42:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20731 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12601 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:30:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lserve.eharvest.com ([216.38.10.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12581 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by LSERVE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:29:46 -0400 Message-ID: <21EE44311E24D31193F7009027731A8009403E@LSERVE> From: Chris Lanteigne To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Internship Opportunity in VT Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:29:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2174 Hi Travis Try looking at http://careers.eharvest.com/ Check it out and get a hold of me and we can figure something out. Take care, Chris Lanteigne http://www.eHARVEST.com/ chrisL@eharvest.com -----Original Message----- From: ^cancel [mailto:tmarcott@zoo.uvm.edu] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 12:29 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Internship Opportunity in VT Hello All, Please circulate the following. I am also interested in other sites that may be good places to post the Internship Opportunity that follows. Thank you, Travis Marcotte Application Deadline: October 1, 1999 Yellow Wood Associates, Inc. a nationally recognized consulting firm specializing in rural community economic development, is offering a two year paid internship to the right individual. To qualify, you must have a Master's Degree or be a Master's Candidate in Rural Development, Agriculture Economics, Rural Sociology, Applied Economics, Natural Resource Management/Planning, Community Development, Environmental Studies, or equivalent, a strong interest in rural development in the United States, a solid background in economics, and some previous work experience, and be willing to commit to a two year position. The position offers opportunities to develop skills in research, project management, marketing, facilitation, and training; work on a diverse array of projects on the cutting edge of rural development; develop a deeper understanding of rural communities, economies, and natural resource sectors; and be exposed to new and emerging ideas in rural development. Potential for career advancement. Stipend: $23,000 a year plus health benefits. To learn more about Yellow Wood Associates, visit our website at http://www.together.net/~yellow. For more information and a complete description of responsibilities, desirable qualifications, and skills, please contact Frances Young at Yellow Wood Associates, Inc., 95 South Main Street, St. Albans, VT, 802-524-6141, email: yellow2@together.net. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 11:42:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20738 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16787 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:40:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web604.mail.yahoo.com (web604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16739 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990811143758.10608.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web604.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:37:58 PDT Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:37:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: maggot-cide To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2175 Good morning all, Gulp. I guess my course of action is elimination of the pests. Gad, I have so little capacity to kill. But Misha weaves a pretty convincing arguement. Of all the methods that were mentioned, the nematodes poured in with water seem the most compatible with my temperment. Though having a pet frog or snake sounds ok. The problem is Molly, Izzy, and Jake--my three dogs. I can see them ganging up on any small creature I try to introduce into their outdoor space. Scrapping off and putting in boiling water is definitely out of my reach. Reminds me of the last time I was near Lobsters being cooked. I had to leave the room. The insecticidal nematodes, are these easily acquired? kate _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 12:59:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22869 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16099 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:25:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16079 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:25:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:29:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: Andy Clark , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'spiritus@uninets.net'" Subject: RE: small scale grain thresher? Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:29:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2176 SANet: >From my days of small-plot, small grain research, there are several brands of small plot equipment that might fit the bill, although this type of equipment is usually on the expensive side. Remembering the manufacturer (Hege) of one type of thresher, I found it on the web at http://www.hegeageq.com/stationary.html Also found Cicoria Agricultural Machinery at http://www.cicoria.it/uk/plot375.html Both are described below. Andy Clark, SAN Coordinator http://www.sare.org/ (Standard government disclaimer: Mention of trade name does not imply endorsement by the USDA or the University of Maryland, nor does it suggest that other equipment is not suitable). Hege 122C Stationary Thresher The Hege 122C stationary thresher is made with high capacity and many options. It can be powered by diesel, gasoline, electric motor, or PTO power. The machine can also be made as a 3-point or tow behind model. Hege 16 Thresher The Hege 16 thresher is designed to be easily adjusted for a single head of wheat or other cereal grains. It can be used in conjunction with the Hege 90 single row drill, and can thresh directly into the magazine trays. Hege 3SA Seed Cleaner The Hege 3SA seed cleaner was designed to clean seed lots ranging from a few grams to a few bushels. The machine has an oscillating screen pan to increase efficiency and speed, and has a wide range of screen sizes available for a variety of seeds. Hege Equipment, Inc. 13915 W 53rd Street N Colwich, KS 67030 USA Phone: (316) 796-0992 Fax: (316) 796-0704 E-mail: hegeusa@aol.com Hege Maschinen GmbH Domane Hohebuch D-74638 Waldenburg, Germany Telephone ++ 7942/109-0 Telefax ++ 7942/109-99 Telex 74451 E-mail: HegeOffice@aol.com Cicoria Agricultural Machinery at http://www.cicoria.it/uk/plot375.html mod. PLOT 375 Technical specifications Small thresher, ideal for plots of land (hence the name), or small holdings. As well as being ideal for the threshing of cereals (corn - barley - oats), it can be used with perfect results for rice, legumes (peas - beans - soya, etc.), small-seed plants (clover and so on), oil seed plants, garden produce, etc. Its adaptability to so many different plant types comes essentially from its simplicity; the technical specifications which grant this are a regulation in the drum revolutions, and variation in the winnowing blower. The machine can be mounted on four wheels, two of which are pirouetting. This is an ideal answer to the problem of working in one place or with small movements on compacted soil or in yards. It can also be mounted on two large tyred wheels and towed by means of a tow-bar. The machine can be powered: 1.By a 2.2KW, three-phase electric motor, when work is in one place, and near a mains supply; 2.With an IM 300-type 6 HP four-stroke petrol engine. The thresher, which has met with particular success, is highly desirable for the simplicity of its construction, ease of use, and - above all - complete lack of pollution when it passes from one product to another. Threshing is delicate, thanks to a drum with rubber blades, and the cycle can be observed (even when the machine is running) thanks to transparent Perspex(tm) panels. Production rates are a direct ratio of the size, and depend greatly on the skill of operators; output varies from 100 to 300 Kg per hour. To optimise output, it is a good idea two have two people: one to feed the machine, and the other to check the controls and change containers (for both finished product and waste). The operator feeds the ears into the machine from the top, without leaving go, while the drum removes the seeds. When the operation is finished (there is a change in both the feel and the sound), the operator need only throw away the seeded ear and feed the next one in. As can be seen, the inlet manifold is closed by a mobile panel (which stops any seeds coming back out) which opens when a product is inserted. In the event of difficulty, the operator can open it manually by sharply depressing the small lever to the left. This action eliminates residual waste or any ears which the operator has accidentally let go of. The shelling operation inside the drum may be followed by looking through two transparent, semicircular doors. The operator will notice that the seeds, together with many tiny particles, move downwards towards the base, where there is a collecting bin. What happens is that the seeds, being heavier, collect at the bottom, while lighter particles begin to rise to the top, and are channelled over to the right where they end up in another bin. This cycle is dependent upon a suction apparatus mounted on the rear: this creates a vacuum which draws in air from the left. The air thus carries all the particles which are lighter than the seeds which are being threshed. The vacuum can be regulated by a sheet metal diaphragm. Home | Combines | Forage Harvesters/Choppers | Planting Equipment | Seed Treaters | Stationary Threshers/Seed Cleaners | Spraying Equipment | Other Equipment | Plot Marker & Labels | Calendar of Events | Let's Talk | Request Information | Dealer Locations | Company History > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Clark > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 12:34 PM > To: 'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu' > Cc: 'spiritus@uninets.net' > Subject: FW: small scale grain thresher? > > > Can anyone help? > > Pease reply to Bruce at spiritus@uninets.net (he is not on > sanet, so will not receive replies to sanet). > > Bruce Walker > Bioregional Conservancy & Reclamation Trust > P. O. Box 777 > Unity, ME 04988 > Tel/fax: 1 207 568 3139 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: spiritus [mailto:spiritus@uninets.net] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 4:15 PM > To: fmagdoff@zoo.uvm.edu > Subject: small scale grain thresher? > > > Hi, > I'm with the Bioregional Conservancy and Reclamation Trust in central > Maine. We are developing an intergated sustainable model farm > system with > eventual related cottage industries, ie bakery. I am looking > for threshing > equipment suitable for small acreage, and have a few acres of > winter rye to > harvest right now. Do you know of such, even stationary > units, even human > powered? Do you know of plans for same? What is used in 3rd world > countries to mechanically thresh grains? We have many small > fields, 15-20 > acres that need to be better used or they will grow back to > woods. Help if > you can! > > Thanks a million > > Bruce Walker > > Bioregional Conservancy & Reclamation Trust > P. O. Box 777 > Unity, ME 04988 > Tel/fax: 1 207 568 3139 > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 12:59:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA22880 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07497 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:59:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07486 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.194] (st-ppp20.hevanet.com [198.5.254.194]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA01703; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:58:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908111558.IAA01703@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:52:41 -0700 Subject: FW: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2177 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought Date: Wed, Aug 11, 1999, 7:26 AM STORY LEAD: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov August 11, 1999 ----------- Despite soil-parching drought, green sweet-corn plants tower six feet above protective organic mulch in a cornfield in Beltsville, Md. Nearby, corn planted in bare soil won't be worth harvesting. Both fields are at the Beltsville (Md.) Agricultural Research Center (BARC), part of the Agricultural Research Service, USDA's chief scientific agency. Key to sustaining the corn through the drought is hairy vetch, a legume grown as a cover crop. The vetch--killed before researchers planted the corn--forms a dense mat. It helps rain or irrigation water seep in rather than flow across fields and erode the soil. The mulch also slows evaporation and supplies natural nitrogen fertilizer. The 7,000-acre BARC now uses hairy vetch to grow much of the corn needed for its livestock. The researchers have already developed vetch systems for tomatoes--now being adopted by some growers--and are testing similar cover crops with peppers, cantaloupes, snap beans and other vegetables. Organic mulch is vital to the center's program in sustainable agriculture--that is, farming in ways both economical and environmentally friendly, and relying on renewable, on-farm resources. That's why biodiesel is the newest contribution to Beltsville's seven-year-old sustainable farming program. Beginning this month, biodiesel, a mix of 20 percent soybean oil and 80-percent regular diesel fuel, will power all farm and road crew diesel vehicles on the center's 6,000-acre east side. Researchers will compare the two fuels for engine performance and wear. The program is part of a federal effort to reduce reliance on petroleum while creating new markets for U.S. crops. A fact sheet on the center's biodiesel use is on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/1999/990811.biodiesel.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Ronald F. Korcak, ARS Beltsville Agricultural Research Center, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-5193, fax (301) 504-5863, korcakr@ba.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 14:31:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28358 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12502 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:43:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12492 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.66.100.69] (dyn-209-66-100-69.scrz.got.net [209.66.100.69]) by always.got.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA44303 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:41:55 -0700 To: Sustainable Ag Net From: Cecile Mills Subject: maggots and chickens Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2178 Loren Muldowney wrote: >"No! Fly maggots will kill your chickens," he says. "They get all >wobbly and can't hold their heads up, then they fall over and eventually >die." > >He didn't know the causative agent, but mentioned that these symptoms >were well known and were referred to as "limberneck." While I usually drop maggots into the fish ponds, as those fishies love them so, my chickens do eat them when I uncover my compost piles to turn or add. They haven't gotten sick yet. Maybe different kinds of maggots produced by different flies produce different results. Also, I have quite a collection of frogs and toads hanging around the compost piles, safely under the covers--the chickens love them too. Those chickens eat everything...saw one finishing off a mouse the cat had gotten and discarded. seaseal@got.net believe it just before you see it To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 14:46:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA28993 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23274 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23261 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA27752 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA20069 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:59:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:59:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought In-Reply-To: <199908111558.IAA01703@hevanet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2179 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Lon J. Rombough wrote: > Subject: FW: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought > > Despite soil-parching drought, green sweet-corn plants tower six feet above > protective organic mulch in a cornfield in Beltsville, Md. Nearby, corn > planted in bare soil won't be worth harvesting. That says it all, almost. > Key to sustaining the corn through the drought is hairy vetch, a legume > grown as a cover crop. The vetch--killed before researchers planted the > corn--forms a dense mat. It helps rain or irrigation water seep in rather > than flow across fields and erode the soil. The mulch also slows evaporation > and supplies natural nitrogen fertilizer. What about organic matter in the soil and slight crusting of the soil forming a semi-impermeable barrier to evaporation _plus_ mulch, which helps. It seems to me water holding capacity of the soil is almost more important unless you have 1' or more of settled, aged compost or mulch on the surface. I have volunteer pigweed and other interesting catch crops (not very deep-rooted) growing vigorously with no mulch or supplemental watering in a new raised bed containing much aged manure and compost. There is a slight crust over the top of the bed; soil immediately underneath (2-4") in nice and moist. <><><> 1st fertilizer department Are we due for another ice age in the next 100-200 years? Anyone have any ideas about this besides Bargyla :-) (<---note polite, respectful smiley). Seriously though, I heard a ham radio operator talking about a serious possibility of this in the near future and thought I'm bring it up here as this would bear heavily on world food production. I guess those not living on another planetary body might be living underground eating cultivated microbes and reading by bioluminescence. <><><><> 2nd fertilizer department I have somewhere in my shop an old burlap Peruvian GUANO bag (probably 50# size) in good condition. If anyone would like this for a museum or other collection of agricultural memorabilia let me know and I'll be glad to donate it. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 15:30:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA00621 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17184 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:41:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (hermes.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.189.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17087 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by hermes.cdpr.ca.gov (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA11727 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA07875; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:41:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:41:56 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: maggots and limberneck Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2180 Limberneck is another name for avian botulism. One source of botulism toxin is maggots. From Texas A&M: Botulism is not a bacterial infection, but a condition produced by ingestion of a toxin produced by the bacterium Cl. botulinum. The organism is common in nature and is widely dispersed in soils. Ingestion of the organism is not harmful. It becomes dangerous only when conditions are favorable for the growth and multiplication of the bacteria and its subsequent toxin production. The organism grows best under high humidity and relatively high temperature and in an environment containing decaying organic material. Acid conditions are detrimental. Stagnant pools or damp areas containing decaying matter with an alkaline reaction are a danger area. Botulism may result from consumption of any decaying animal or vegetable. Decaying carcasses are a frequent source of toxin, and fly maggots feeding on such tissue may contain enough toxin to cause the disease when ingested. The toxin is water soluble; consequently, water sources may become contaminated. *************** Kathy Brunetti To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 16:05:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA01535 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06688 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:12:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06591 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.96] (ppp-206-170-0-96.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.96]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00166 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:07:51 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Limberneck/avian botulism Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2181 Howdy, all-- Loren Muldowney's story about "limberneck" resulting from feeding chickens on maggots is one I'd heard from a local knowledge perspective out east, as well. My dad worked on some friends' pig farms in Essington, PA, before and after his service in World War Two. Most of those farms were diversified and also had poultry, and I can remember him talking about this. He was a compassionate man, and couldn't stand to see animals suffering. Loren--good question you raised--because you've challenged my thinking that these maggots could be biocontrolled by birds in an urban composter. See below. "Limberneck" is a condition caused by avian botulism. I posted here recently about ponds as reservoirs of avian botulism. --U.S. Fish and Wildlife service info: http://www.emtc.nbs.gov/http_data/nwhc/factshts/avian.html The authors are at the National Wildlife Health Laboratory, in Madison. "Avian Botulism affects the nervous system, causing muscle paralysis. Depending on how far the disease has progressed, various levels of paralysis will be observed. An early sign in birds is the inability to fly. Once the ability to fly is lost and leg muscles become paralyzed, ducks suffering from botulism often propel themselves across the water and mud flats with their wings. This sequence of signs is in contrast to that of lead-poisoned birds, which have difficulty flying but remain able to walk and run. "Paralysis of the inner eyelid and neck muscles follows. These are the two most easily recognizable signs associated with avian botulism. The inability of the bird to hold its head erect is the reason this disease is called "limberneck." Frequently, birds will drown once they reach this stage in the disease. Those that do not drown will eventually die from respiratory failure as paralysis spreads. "Favorable environmental conditions occur in the tissues of decaying animal and insect carcasses. The decomposition process uses up all available oxygen in the carcass, creating anaerobic conditions. Bacterial spores ingested during the life of the animal germinate after death. As the bacteria multiply and die, the toxin is released. "The cycle of avian botulism "Outbreaks of avian botulism occur when the toxin is taken in by birds. The die-off may begin as birds feed directly on invertebrate carcasses that contain the toxin, or as a result of feeding on live maggots of flesh-flies and blowflies. Flies lay their eggs on dead vertebrates, and the resulting maggots store botulinal toxin in their bodies as they consume the carcass. More than 5,000 maggots can be produced by a single bird carcass; consumption of just two to five toxin-bearing maggots is often enough to kill a duck!" Note that the difference between this and Kate's situation is that the source of the botulinal toxin is dead vertebrates and invertebrates. Kate is decomposing/composting vegetables. Which is what I was thinking when I suggested laying the heap open to the air for city birds to pick at. However, from --Texas A&M http://gallus.tamu.edu/Diseases/PDSec5.htm#BOTULISM comes this: "Botulism is a disease caused by the ingestion of a toxin produced by the anerobic bacterium Clostridium botulinum. All domestic fowl and most wild birds are susceptible. An interesting exception is the vulture, which is apparently immune and feeds on decaying carcasses. Many human deaths have been attributed to their consuming food or water containing the toxin. "Cause: Botulism is not a bacterial infection, but a condition produced by ingestion of a toxin produced by the bacterium Cl. botulinum. The organism is common in nature and is widely dispersed in soils. Ingestion of the organism is not harmful. It becomes dangerous only when conditions are favorable for the growth and multiplication of the bacteria and its subsequent toxin production. The organism grows best under high humidity and relatively high temperature and in an environment containing decaying organic material. Acid conditions are detrimental. Stagnant pools or damp areas containing decaying matter with an alkaline reaction are a danger area. Botulism may result from consumption of any decaying animal or vegetable. Decaying carcasses are a frequent source of toxin, and fly maggots feeding on such tissue may contain enough toxin to cause the disease when ingested. The toxin is water soluble; consequently, water sources may become contaminated. "The toxin is one of the most potent, being about 17 times as deadly as cobra venom for the guinea pig. The toxin is relatively heat stable but may be destroyed by boiling. There are different types of the toxin. Types A and C usually are responsible for the disease in birds, while type B most frequently affects man." So this indicates that maggots in partly-finished compost *could* be a problem for birds, under certain circumstances? There is some good informationon avian botulism/limberneck at: --Environment Canada http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/ab_1.html See especially, --"Methods of tranfer" for info on maggots: http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/ab_4.html That site also has an EXTENSIVE annotated bibliography on avian botulism http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/ab_7.html See especially: http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab24.html http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab2.html http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab175.html http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab65.html http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab262.html This one intrigued me: it lists a bunch of antibiotics that people can feed chickens to control botulism; this refers back to the ongoing SANET discussion of antibiotics in the food chain, and the notion of drugging animals to overcome pathogens caused by systemic imbalances: http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab292.html One last resource: --Skipio's (breeder of insects for kept birds and reptiles) http://www.skipio.com/birds.htm "Insects are a natural nutrition source for all birds at some point in their development except for some who obtain their animal protein from fish, mammals, reptiles or amphibians. Live mealworms and crickets, originally marketed as fish bait, have long been available for feeding birds and other animals. These insects were grown on vegetable diets. Some bird breeders to their dismay tried feeding their birds maggots that were grown on offal or wastes from the local butcher shop. The maggots were suitable for fish bait but could carry claustridium botulinum that resulted in fatal limberneck disease. A mistaken idea associated with those larvae was that they could be cleansed with corn meal. That was not true. Only insects that have been grown on vegetable diets should be fed to birds!" Sooooo. Not sure where that leaves us. My guess would be that if the conditions in the heap weren't too alkaline, and what went into it was clean (not rotted) food, the chance of botulin toxin accumulating in the maggots would be relatively low. Comment, anyone? Hope this is of use to you-all with poultry, as well. I've seen chickens go after maggoty produce, either gleaning in the garden, or something left too long in the scrap bucket (which is also risking Salmonellosis). Finally, Loren, you asked about feeding maggots to fish. Here's a nice little site that looks like a student one, very well referenced: http://iaith.simplenet.com/botulism/botubird.html The student was apparently in a course on Microbial Disease and Human Society. The above URL has an item about botulism in fish, and footnotes. Also: http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab50.html Now that we've had this discussion, watch for Dennis Avery to show up claiming that composting causes botulism. :^) (not sure why I'm smiling) peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 16:05:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA01549 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:05:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06839 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:12:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06712 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.170.0.96] (ppp-206-170-0-96.snfc21.pacbell.net [206.170.0.96]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00198 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:09:10 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Soil organisms antagonistic to pathogens Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2182 Howdy, all-- Ran across this reference in pursuit of an answer to Loren's question about limberneck. It meshes with a number of threads on SANET recently, including soil health as a contributor to overall health, and the value of "old" information/research. Waksman, S.A., and Woodruff, H.B. 1940 The soil as a source of microorganisms antagonistic to disease-producing bacteria. J. Bacteriol. 40, 581-600. http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab117.html [Summary] The soil contains a number of different types of microorganisms antagonistic to various bacteria belonging to gram-positive and gram-negative groups. By enriching the soil with the specific bacteria, the corresponding antagonists increase and can be readily isolated. This has been done most readily by the use of an agar medium containing viable cells of the specific organism as the sole available nutrient. Out of a number of antagonistic organisms isolated from the soil, two were studied in greater detail, one a bacterium belonging to the Pseudomonas aeruginosa group, and the other an Actinomyces. These organisms were found to inhibit the growth of several gram-negative bacteria, as well and, even to a greater extent, of numerous gram-positive bacteria. The active substance produced by the two antagonists was found to be largely thermostable; it passed through a Seitz filter, it was removed by charcoal and was, partly at least, ethersoluble. Highly active preparations were obtained which inhibited, in very dilute solutions, the growth of Escherichia coli, Brucella abortus, and of many other bacteria. The active substance had also a strong bactericidal effect upon Escherichia coli (215,000,000 viable cells) and of Brucella abortus (68,000,000 viable cells). The active substance of the two antagonists was found to reduce, in very low concentrations, the bacterial populations of natural substrates, such as milk; when added to aggar it prevented the development of the great majority of soil bacteria and actinomycetes, but not of fungi. See also: http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab209.html Wentz, M.W., Scott, R.A., and Vennes, J.W. 1967 Clostridium botulinum type F, seasonal inhibition by Bacillus licheniformis. Science 155, 89-90. [Abstract] Clostridium botulinum type F has been identified during the summer months in mud samples from a small stream. Its absence during the period from October to April in these mud samples is attributed to the presence of Bacillus licheniformis. Some peer-reviewed, published evidence that when a system is in balance, and soil is healthy, specific pathogens stand less of a chance of flourishing. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Red meat is NOT bad for you. Blue-green meat, now *that's* bad for you! --Tommy Smothers To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 16:19:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA01727 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13290 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:29:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from email1-1 (email.mcleod.net [208.16.32.20]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA13275 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 16340 invoked from network); 11 Aug 1999 19:20:48 -0000 Received: from 312-a-41-17.ppp.mcleodusa.net (208.16.41.17) by email.mcleod.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 1999 19:20:48 -0000 Received: by 312-A-41-17.ppp.mcleodusa.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BEE405.D776A940@312-A-41-17.ppp.mcleodusa.net>; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:28:55 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEE405.D776A940@312-A-41-17.ppp.mcleodusa.net> From: Reap International To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1215 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:28:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEE405.D7877220" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2183 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE405.D7877220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please circulate the following. We are very interested in help from the sustainable agriculture community. Bill Mueller NEWSLETTER AVAILABLE REAP International (Rural Enterprise Adaptation Program) invites interested persons and organizations to receive our latest newsletter. REAP is a nonprofit organization which has worked in Russia, Latvia and Lithuania since 1992. Our mission is to encourage rural stability at select sites where we partner with foreign nationals to deliver programs of training, information transfer and development projects. Our approach is to work through rural schools to strengthen villages. We promote diversification, micro-enterprises, sustainable agriculture and environmental stewardship. REAP operates school exchanges and internships. Our latest newsletter highlights the summer program which was just concluded in July, including the First International Green Walk at Lake Baikal, our summer school exchange and volunteer programs. Interested persons can also order a video cassette with a TV news series done on this past summer's program, and we have available T-shirts from our Walk. Please contact us with your mailing address at REAP@reapintl.com Or you can write to us at 1427 4th Street SW Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52404 Or call: (319) 366-4230 Bill Mueller, Director ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE405.D7877220 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjcTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUAU01UUABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUA AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUA AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3NhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5uY3N1LmVkdScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpTQU5FVC1NR0BDRVMuTkNTVS5FRFUAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADYDUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHQAA AFJFOiBzYW5ldC1tZy1kaWdlc3QgVjEgIzEyMTUAbQgBBYADAA4AAADPBwgACwAOABwABgADABwB ASCAAwAOAAAAzwcIAAsADgAaAA0AAwAhAQEJgAEAIQAAADhCMTI3RjU3RUY0RkQzMTFBMTIxNDQ0 NTUzNTQwMDAwANsGAQOQBgAIBgAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAA QAA5AKBBEKMv5L4BHgBwAAEAAAAdAAAAUkU6IHNhbmV0LW1nLWRpZ2VzdCBWMSAjMTIxNQAAAAAC AXEAAQAAABYAAAABvuQvoqNXfxKNT+8R06EhREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4A HwwBAAAAEgAAAHJlYXBAcmVhcGludGwuY29tAAAAAwAGENDDbyYDAAcQUQQAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAA AFBMRUFTRUNJUkNVTEFURVRIRUZPTExPV0lOR1dFQVJFVkVSWUlOVEVSRVNURURJTkhFTFBGUk9N VEhFU1VTVEFJTkFCTEVBR1JJQ1VMVFVSRUNPTU1VTklUWUJJTExNVUVMTEUAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACH BAAAgwQAABoHAABMWkZ1NAB8s/8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPF AgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMz9wLkBxMCgzQDRRM1B20CgP59CoAIzwnZAoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsK FFFBC/EgUGxlYRGwIGBjaXJjdQtgE9Ag7HRoG+ACEGwX0APwGfBwLiAgVxvgCsAb4HZ5BJB5IAuA E9AYQBPBZOUeUSAcsGxwHNADYRyT/HN1E8ALcQGgG6AdwAnAOmkcMXQIcBvhA3BtdbEDAHR5LgqF CoVCAxD/D7EKUB0ABJAiTAr7FWEbUgBORVdTTEVUVARFUhSwVkFJTEEGQiZAIkxSRUFQIGZJHnIg gHRpAiAHQCDsKFIIcCkhRR5yE1AEAPEb4EFkYQUwKNMbgANg0QnAYW0pHlF2IgAHkeseaSRVcASQ cwIgBCAAcMse8AWwZwBwaXoo0wQgiHRvIBhAY2VpHhCbLgAIcCAcUhPAIG4H0P5zG6ACQASQHXEo IwQAHcDNIqZuAiATUG9mIgAuC+ggd2ghEGgfMBvAM5A9BbBrHuQpYAQQBzAsIF5MHGAr0DGgLdJM IgBoLnUuQTGnAJBuL0AgMag5OTIdcU8vsW0EAb8q4jFxLvEJ8AWgKXFnG+D2cilzIEFiAxAiAR3A BUD7EbAboGM6wSvjM6AekSKm9ncb4CSBdDBQPGE2IRzR+RhAaWcDoCjGLtMNsDpg/x4RLUArNAQg MoAckCmAC4D/HUE1QAuAPYEAwCrTJFVAEX0AgGY9AS3SDbAeEBfQcNcHgAIwP0JqOxFzN8UqkH8y YQDQM+A4tDRCHJEDYHXeZzPgObQ2thFwbwbwLtP/E8AYQBnwHKEDoCvQHQA5cd9D4h2hMmEEYBxx ZD8CAJA9MpBjKNM1QDgwBQBvLftDMSn1czVANrYgPyFELdL3CfAr0ANgbkMiOeMH0AsR+nMzsHAw 9kMABJAv8kZ8/TkAeBFxGfAHkS3SHmMAgH9PgUPhIkw38i/vHzA9wGj/OmBF8EPQH9UhwD8oM5VP MP0EIGpMcSKmBaA3QApADbD1HvNKHEB5QJJZAh1BHJPuRhwQMCEofEcJ0h2QB0C/RYA6sTVgNHAi pwtwawdA3zVAL6JWhVE9LcN2BvAh4P8T0D8pHXAocyyPLZJKQAOg/z5hLwAFsASBMZEr0A2wLwCf SkAEEDCiPSQxoFRWMEP3OtEIgQQgZAIgL4EDoByg3zFxLOYbwDrBVpMnBCA/Vf81QC3SPIERgC9x aaALcAtg+SCiVC1PcQAgBCAfky+i/1yCHXEiTBuWAiEA0AVATHA9PSR5L6IAwDpRWnFhZN5kHqEt sQVAKCJAGEAqkPkeYWwuIaFTXQXAbmFjA/53BRAcci8AbeE6sSRWAZFBN3A0MjcgND1RU9dHsRHA BgBXc3pDCYAn8jdwUU9gNUBJHSAxoDUyuDQwNHD/SkAdADodgAwoMzeAK5AzNjYtvXRAMwp2Ir8E kDVARBwQvzsRBbAkXxr4fDUXYQB+kAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMIAXqF8v5L4BQAAIMIAX qF8v5L4BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAACdzQ== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE405.D7877220-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 16:34:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02163 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20285 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:39:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from msue.msu.edu (msue.msue.msu.edu [35.8.2.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20164 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from graphics.fst.msu.edu (bolinp.fst.msu.edu [35.8.60.112]) by msue.msu.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA53456 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:38:42 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990811153032.006add60@msue.msu.edu> X-Sender: bolinp@msue.msu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:30:32 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Patricia C. Bolin" Subject: maggots, chickens, and limberneck Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2184 I typed "limberneck" into a Web search engine, & found that it is avian botulism: http://www.emtc.nbs.gov/http_data/nwhc/factshts/avian.html "Outbreaks of avian botulism occur when the toxin is taken in by birds. The die-off may begin as birds feed directly on invertebrate carcasses that contain the toxin, or as a result of feeding on live maggots of flesh-flies and blowflies. Flies lay their eggs on dead vertebrates, and the resulting maggots store botulinal toxin in their bodies as they consume the carcass. More than 5,000 maggots can be produced by a single bird carcass; consumption of just two to five toxin-bearing maggots is often enough to kill a duck!" --pat-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 16:38:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02223 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22077 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:43:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22027 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [0.0.0.0] by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via hatert.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.7] with SMTP for id VAA15320 (8.8.8/1.19); Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:49 +0200 (MET DST) X-NUPop-Charset: English Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:31:35 +0100 (CET) From: "f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net" Reply-To: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net Message-Id: <77496.f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Synthetic rice Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2185 >> 3. Vitamin A derivative is added to rice >> SNIP // >> On the horizon, said Potrykus, is genetically modified rice with >> twice the amount of iron. Iron deficiency anemia, the most common >> nutritional disorder in the world, affects nearly 2 billion people, After vitamine A and iron there will be a whole list of additives so people don't have to eat anything else anymore but rice? Do we really think we can create food like this or should we look into diversification of the food we eat. The US itself has large foodrelated problems themselves, maybe they should learn a lesson from there own 'created products' on health. Frits v/d laan Organic horticulture /biologische boomkwekerij Gouda http://web.inter.nl.net/users/F.vd.Laan/ f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net The Netherlands To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 16:48:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA02383 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00752 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:55:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00742 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:55:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: small scale grain thresher? Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:55:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2186 -----Original Message----- From: Allan Balliett [mailto:igg@igg.com] Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 3:48 AM To: Andy Clark Subject: RE: small scale grain thresher? Eugene Canales of Ferrai Tractor CIE, a supplier of appropriate technology for small farms, will be doing a series of workshops on small scale grain production at the Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Food and Farming Conference, Oct 1-3 of this year (see http://igg.com/bdnow/). While he will be bringing some small scale European grain equipment with him, he has expressed an interest in getting some other equipment made available for demonstration at the conference. I know that he is interested in working out a very beneficial deal with anyone who is interested in purchasing an Italian reaper/binder or a small combine if they will pick it up after the show. This is not meant to be an add for Eugene, it's posted in the spirit of getting good equipment into the hands of an interested grower at a good price. It looks like Greg Shulz of NEWFARMS will be onhand at the conference to talk about the the small scale grain production coop he has pulled together out in New Mexico. (It is my understanding that the growers now have their own bakery.) For more information about the Ferrari deal, or about the conference, please contact me at igg@igg.com Thanks -Allan Balliett http://www.igg.com/bdnow To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 17:08:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA03131 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12362 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:16:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12308 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.221] (dial221.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.221]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06027 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Farmer-in-residence concept Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2187 Dear Sanet, A community outside Santa Fe is working to revitalize agriculture in their valley. One interesting idea is to use the "artist-in-residence" model, but for a farmer. The community would provide housing and a stipend. In exchange, the farmer would work with the community and youth to provide information, consult with area growers, host workshops, etc. Does anybody know of anything like this in other communities? Has it been successful? How was it structured, etc? Thanks for any information! Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 17:55:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA05267 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14489 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:06:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14295 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA11287 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [4.9.39.243] (PPPa61-PhiladelphiaA7-1R604.saturn.bbn.com [4.9.39.243]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22828 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:04:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: libby@pop.igc.apc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908101624.MAA01218@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:04:04 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Libby J. Goldstein" Subject: Pawlonia Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2188 < Does anyone know of potential problems with this tree? Yup, it self-seeds like mad and will grow anywhere including in cracks in the sidewalk. It also loves to take over park land; however, there are many tree thieves who will come into a park and take the trees away to resell them to Japanese woodworkers who love the straight grained wood. I guess that's good for the native woodies. Libby libby@igc.apc.org Libby J. Goldstein phone & fax: 215-465-8878 Philadelphia USDA zone 7A Sunset zone 32 My garden must be n-dimensional if it's out here in cyberspace. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 18:04:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06369 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:04:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15576 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:08:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from the.link.ca (the.link.ca [198.169.185.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15567 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nagoub (dial133.link.ca [204.83.156.133]) by the.link.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11007 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:07:40 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990811150053.007c5c70@the.link.ca> X-Sender: sen@the.link.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:00:53 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Saskatchewan Eco Network Subject: FW: small scale grain thresher? In-Reply-To: <199908111114.HAA06206@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2189 If you are looking for a small scale grain thresher, try the MacLeod Harvest system. The company's head office is in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The MacLeod system works in two parts with a thresher out in the field and a stationary mill back in the yard. It separates weed seeds, chaff and grain leaving the straw in the fields. It reduces the spread of weeds by minimizing distribution during harvest, and these seeds can then be used as feed. The MacLeod Harvest system will be profiled in the next issue of Synergy magazine, available from Synergy Magazine Co-operative, Box 8803, Saskatoon, SK S7K 6S6. For more information call (306)242-4097 or email synergy@link.ca Cathy Holtslander *********************************************************** Saskatchewan Eco Network #203-115 2nd Ave. North Saskatoon, SK S7K 2B1 phone: (306) 652-1275 fax: (306) 665-2128 email: sen@link.ca The Saskatchewan Eco Network is an affiliate of the Canadian Environmental Network To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 18:08:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07336 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26853 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:27:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26845 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.114.172.187] (dhcp-172-52.UCSC.EDU [128.114.172.187]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id OAA13596 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:30:47 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Anne-Marie Napoli Subject: Sustainable Ag Education Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2190 The Center for Agroecology at UC Santa Cruz offers a 6-month training course in organic gardening and farming called the Apprenticeship in Ecological Horticulture. The course emphasizes hands-on learning, working side-by-side with instructors, and class instruction on organic horticultural methods. Cultural requirements for vegetable, herb, flower and fruit cultivars are covered, including the specifics of soil preparation, composting, sowing, cultivation, propagation, irrigation, pest and disease control. Marketing efforts include an on-site Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) project. This is a full-time program involving field and garden work, classes, readings, and field trips. The 35-40 apprentices each year come from all regions of the US and abroad, and represent a wide spectrum of ages, backgrounds, and interests. There are several full and partial tuition waivers available for minorities and for economically disadvantaged individuals. Tuition for the 2000 program is $3,000 with additional costs for books, tools, and food. Most apprentices choose to live on the Farm in their own tents. Program graduates receive a certificate carrying 20 units of UC Extension credit. For an informational brochure and application, please write, call or visit our Web site: Apprenticeship Information The Center for Agroecology UC Santa Cruz 1156 High Street Santa Cruz, CA 95064 (831) 459-2321, (831) 459-2799 (FAX) http://zzyx.ucsc.edu/casfs e-mail: annemari@zzyx.ucsc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 18:15:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07422 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26869 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:27:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26858 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06749 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EHR6E4FP; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:19:40 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:05:14 -0700 Subject: maggots Message-ID: <19990811.140514.3430.3.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3,8,15,17-18 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2191 My chickens would be delighted if I could figure out how to grow maggots for them. I thought maybe one of these days, I'd get over my squimishness and try some experiments--then I read Misha's post. Maybe I'll concentrate on tomato worms, grasshoppers, soy beans, etc. instead. Then I read Riaan's post about someone growning maggots for fish food. Then Loren quoted his grandfather talking about "limberneck" in chickens and Holly reported (among other things) feeding them to chickens successfully and Cecile also reported letting her chickens eat them with no ill effects. And, now I can add a bit to the discussion; about insecticidal nematodes, ARBICO (www.usit.net.BICONET) supplies them. Most likely there are lots of other places that also sell them.) We tried them unsuccessfully for termites then later talked to a pest control expert who had successfully used them in other parts of the state but found they didn't work with our soils. I don't think we were able to keep the soil moist enough for them. I'm facinated with the wealth of ideas and information on this list! Thanks for being there... -Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 18:22:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA07532 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28424 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:31:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28352 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.148] (br-ppp24.hevanet.com [198.5.254.148]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA09651; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908112130.OAA09651@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:33:36 -0700 Subject: FW: High CO2 Stimulates Soil-Building "Glue" From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2192 No endorsement, comment, or anything else about these items is intended or implied. The items are forwarded simply for the interest of list members. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: High CO2 Stimulates Soil-Building "Glue" Date: Wed, Aug 11, 1999, 11:03 AM STORY LEAD: High CO2 Stimulates Soil-Building "Glue" ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov August 12, 1999 ----------- In the first examination of the effects of high atmospheric carbon dioxide levels on soil structure, an Agricultural Research Service scientist and cooperators found that the gas stimulates soil-dwelling fungi to produce more of a unique protein that greatly amplifies a soil's ability to store carbon. The study's results are described in a letter published in the August 12 issue of Nature magazine. One of the letter's authors, ARS soil scientist Sara F. Wright, previously discovered the protein and named it glomalin. She suspects it may be the primary glue that holds soil together. Now it appears that a little of this glue goes a long way toward helping soils keep carbon out of the atmosphere in the form of carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas contributing to possible global warming. The lead author, Matthias C. Rillig, is with the Carnegie Institution of Washington at Stanford, Calif., as is Christopher B. Field. The fourth author, Michael F. Allen, is with the University of California at Riverside. The researchers studied three different ecosystems: two grasslands in northern California and chaparral in southern California. In all three, they found that as more carbon dioxide was pumped into open-top chambers placed over grassland plants growing outdoors, or in a greenhouse built around shrubs, glomalin levels rose, along with soil stability. The high carbon dioxide levels in the air increase the amount of carbon taken in by plant roots. That gives the fungi more food and enables them to produce more glomalin. The glomalin glues soil particles together and helps them clump, improving soil structure. This eases the passage of air and water through soil, boosting plant yields. It also helps soil resist erosion and hold in soil carbon -- valuable organic matter that holds nutrients to recycle slowly to plants. Farmers can increase glomalin levels further by avoiding plowing and by growing cover crops year-round if feasible. Fungi need live roots to produce glomalin. ---------- Scientific contact: Sara F. Wright, ARS Soil Microbial Systems Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-8156, fax 504-8370, swright@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 18:48:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09819 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18247 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:00:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18230 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id OAA02314 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990811145747.00ade410@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: mark2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:03:14 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Lipson Subject: Wire story on Organics & GMOs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2193 >From the Bloomberg wire service today. > >Gene-Altered Crops Are Trouble in the Wind for Organic Foods >8/11/99 15:20 > >Gene-Altered Crops Are Trouble in the Wind for Organic Foods > > Hudson, Wisconsin, Aug. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Organic food maker >Terra Prima Inc. got a sour taste of modern food technology late >last year. > After a test by an importer in the Netherlands found a trace >of genetically engineered corn in Terra tortilla chips, company >officials decided they couldn't sell the product as organic. More >frustrating was lack of accountability for the ``contamination'' >of its product. The organic farmer who sold Terra the corn said >he was unaware of the problem, explaining wind probably blew corn >pollen from a neighboring farm into his field. > The explanation is plausible, though most corn pollen >doesn't travel more than 60 feet, said Bob Nielsen, an agronomist >with Purdue University. Still, the possibility troubles not just >organic producers but also farmers who don't want to be penalized >for growing genetically modified food. > ``You bet it raises concern,'' Nielsen said. ``But it's >going to depend on how well or how thoroughly grain will be >tested for contaminants at the point of sale.'' > Grain processors such as Archer Daniels Midland Co., food >makers such as Novartis AG's Gerber baby-food unit and organic >food companies such as Terra have responded to consumer concerns >by demanding farmers provide corn that's not genetically >engineered. > DuPont Co., Monsanto Co. and even Gerber's parent company, >Novartis, have staked part of their futures on genetically >engineered food. They are treading carefully to promote the >technology without contributing to consumer fears. > > Food Safety Scares > > European consumers, shaken by food safety scares such as the >1996 outbreak of mad-cow disease in the U.K and more recently >dioxin-tainted chicken in Belgium, are especially distrustful of >the technology, which involves altering genetic traits of corn, >soybeans and other crops so they can resist pests or withstand >greater doses of weed killer. > The Terra chips tested in Europe contained genetically >modified corn that included the bacteria Bacillus thuringiensis, >or Bt, a toxin that kills the destructive European corn borer. > Terra, based in Hudson, Wisconsin, decided to destroy 87,000 >bags of the contaminated chips at a cost of $147,000. For a >company with about $2.5 million in sales, the loss was sizable, >said Melodi Nelson, vice president of the closely held food >maker. > She doesn't blame the organic farmer who sold Terra the corn >and said the source of the contamination wasn't clear. > ``I'd like to see a moratorium on genetically modified crops >until they can reassure us that we won't have cross- >pollination,'' Nelson said. > > Monarch Butterflies > > Bt corn moved into the spotlight in May, when a Cornell >University researcher found that monarch butterfly larvae that >feed on its pollen could die. The findings contributed to >investor apprehension about Monsanto, which has borrowed heavily >to acquire seed companies to market its genetically-modified crop >technology. > Shares of Monsanto have fallen 17 percent this year and >traded this week as low as 38 3/4, down from a high of 50 13/16 >in March. > The issue is not likely to blow over. An estimated 38 >percent of this year's U.S. corn crop and nearly half of the U.S. >soybean crop was planted with genetically engineered seeds. > ``This is really indicative of how this biotechnology is >going to change how we grow food in the United States,'' said >Scott McFarland, director of industry relations for the National >Corn Growers Association. ''There's a lot more risk than farmers >have taken on in the past.'' > > Insurance Questions > > Farmers who use the technology are concerned about >liability, if they are accused of contaminating other crops, >because crop insurers haven't addressed the issue. > John Nelson, president of Acceptance Insurance Cos. in >Omaha, Nebraska, said his company doesn't offer a policy to cover >a lawsuit related to genetically engineered seeds. The company's >American Agrisurance unit is the third biggest U.S. crop insurer. >Nelson said he's studying the issue. > Some farmers are looking to the seed companies for guidance, >which so far, they haven't offered. ``We couldn't get to any >resolution,'' said Kyle Phillips, a corn grower in Knoxville, >Iowa. > Doyle Karr, a spokesman for Des Moines-based Pioneer Hi-Bred >International Inc., said, ``We're looking at it but we haven't >given any guidance. The difficult thing is it's hard to >prevent.'' DuPont plans to buy Pioneer, the world's largest seed >company, in the next two months. > A Novartis official said organic farmers could reduce the >risk of contamination if they follow standard farming practices >like creating a buffer between neighboring fields and planting at >different times than their neighbors. > If an organic farmer ``wishes to ensure no corn pollen in >his fields, he needs to take the necessary precautions,'' said >Jeff Stein, director of regulatory and government affairs for >Novartis' U.S. crop business. > Some organic farmers may be considering lawsuits against >their neighbors, said Bob Scowcroft, spokesman for the Organic >Farming Research Foundation. The issue was top of the agenda at a >San Francisco-area organic food conference earlier this month. > Others would ``prefer to be more proactive'' and work out a >compromise with their neighbors, said Ken Rosmann, marketing >director for Heartland Organic Marketing Cooperative, >representing 140 organic farmers in Iowa and Missouri. > >--Brett Chase in Chicago (312) 692-3728 /mfr > >Story illustration: to graph Monsanto's stock performance, MTC US > GPCT > > >Company news: News by industry: >MTC US CN Monsanto NI BTC Biotechnolgy >DD US CN DuPont NI AGR Agriculture >NOV SW CN Novartis NI INS Insurance >AIF US CN Acceptance Ins. NI GRN Grains >PHB US CN Pioneer NI DRG Drugs > > NI CHM Chemicals > > >News by category: Regional news: >NI COS Companies NI WI Wisconsin >NI BMRFER Fertilizers-Res. NI DE Delaware >NI FOD Food NI MO Missouri > NI IA Iowa > NI US U.S. > NI SW Sweden > NI EUROP Europe > > >For more stories about Monsanto and biotechnology: MTC US > TCNI BTC > > > > >-0- (BN ) Aug/11/1999 15:20 Organic Farming Research Foundation Mark Lipson, Policy Program Director ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670 PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 22:24:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15876 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11256 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11202 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10765 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.238] (term7-48.vta.west.net [205.254.243.48]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D5BC249FC for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:41:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:41:53 -0800 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Organic mastitis conference Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2194 The Soil Association and the Organic Livestock Research Group at the University of Reading are organising the first ever organic mastitis conference on the 3rd of September at the National Agricultural Centre in Stoneleigh, UK. Please contact The SoilAssociation Producer Services for details and booking forms (tel. 00 44 (0) 117 914 2415). The preliminary programme attached. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 22:24:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15884 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11311 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11249 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10771 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:41:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.238] (term7-48.vta.west.net [205.254.243.48]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2159C249C1; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:41:58 -0800 To: , From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: ANTI-CROP BIOTERRORISM SYMPOSIUM, AUGUST 1999 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2195 ANTI-CROP BIOTERRORISM SYMPOSIUM, AUGUST 1999 Source: American Phytopathological Society Plant Pathologists to Discuss Anti-Crop Bioterrorism and Food Security August 1999 Most people have heard of the Irish potato famine and other plant diseases that have wiped out a country's staple crop. Throughout history, there have been many famines and epidemics as a result of disease. What if they were caused deliberately? Many people are aware of the threat of biological weapons directed towards people, but few realize the potential dire effects of crop bioterrorism, the use of pathogens to cause a food crop epidemic or contamination of our food supply. According to Norm Schaad, USDA-ARS Foreign Disease-Weed Science Research Unit and member of the American Phytopathological Society, "Our current agriculture infrastructure is susceptible to disease outbreaks resulting from bioterrorism. As members of the plant science community we are aware of the risk and feel it's important to interact with other scientists and agencies in a cooperative effort to review the issues.'' A symposium to bring together plant pathologists, military intelligence and criminal experts to discuss anti-crop bioterrorism will be held during the joint American Phytopathological Society (APS) and Canadian Phytopathological Society (CPS) Annual Meeting in Montreal, Canada. This session will feature speakers from federal agencies, universities and the private sector convened by Anne Vidaver, University of Nebraska. "This is the first international symposium being held to create an awareness among individuals with expertise in the agricultural scientific community to develop measures against crop bioterrorism,'' says Schaad. Jan Leach, Kansas State University, will discuss proposed strategies to minimize potential threats to the U.S. food supply. "Proactive development of crops with novel and broad spectrum resistances to plant disease may hinder the success of altered organisms,'' says Leach. "This is an active area of research by plant pathologists today.'' "More funding for and emphasis on pathogen identification as well as a formal national procedure for surveying and reporting new plant diseases could reduce the destructive effects of deliberate pathogen releases,'' says Bob Forster, University of Idaho Research and Extension Centre. Forster, Leach and Schaad as well as Thomas Frazier, GenCon; Wallace Deen, private consultant; David Huxsoll, Louisiana State University; Larry Madden, Ohio State University; Robert Hickson, USAF Academy and D.E. Wilson, FBI Laboratory will present their views on ways of approaching anti-crop bioterrorism during this symposium. The symposium on plant pathology's role in combatting anti-crop bioterrorism and promoting food security, will be held at the APS/CPS Annual Meeting in Montreal, Canada on Tuesday, August 10 at 2 p.m. Complimentary registration is available for reporters and science writers, please contact Kathleen Koegler, APS, at +1.651.454.7250 or kkoegler@scisoc.org. The American Phytopathological Society (APS) is an international professional scientific organization dedicated to the study and control of plant disease with 5000 members worldwide. For more information on APS, visit the website at http://www.scisoc.org or contact APS Headquarters at +1.651.454.7250, aps@scisoc.org. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 22:24:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15880 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11267 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11211 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10768 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.238] (term7-48.vta.west.net [205.254.243.48]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 88C1024A13 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:41:56 -0800 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: GERBER BABY FOOD, GRILLED BY GREENPEACE, PLANS SWIFT OVERHAUL Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2196 STRAINED PEACE: GERBER BABY FOOD, GRILLED BY GREENPEACE, PLANS SWIFT OVERHAUL. GENE-MODIFIED CORN AND SOY WILL GO, ALTHOUGH FIRM FEELS SURE THEY ARE SAFE. HEINZ TAKES ACTION, TOO. The Wall Street Journal, July 30, 1999, pA1, 6. Also in: http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/1999/08/080499/gerber_4784.asp A letter arrived on the fax machine at the Gerber baby food company in Michigan on May 28 and it certainly got attention. Soon top executives were formulating plans to change its decades- old product that has sales totaling $1 billion a year. Written by Charles Margulis and addressed "to the CEO," the letter displayed the logo of Greenpeace, the activist European environmental group. The letter stated, "As you know, there is growing concern around the world about genetically engineered food." Greenpeace is "concerned that the release of genetically engineered organisms into the environment and food supply may have irreversible consequences." It asked if Gerber used genetically engineered ingredients in its baby foods. If so, what products? Mr. Margulis also wanted to know "what steps have you taken (if any) to ensure you are not using" genetically modified substances. He asked for a reply within five business days. European opposition to genetically modified foods has already taken its toll on American agricultural exports. American consumers have reacted more mildly about the whole issue. The Food and Drug Administration has tried to reassure the public that genetically modified foods "are as safe as other foods in the grocery store." But, with the involvement of Greenpeace, industry officials worry that the climate in the US could change overnight and damage companies like Gerber, Heinz and Beech Nut Nutrition Corporation. Already, the maker of the Earth's Best line says it has just decided that all baby food it produces will be made without modified crops. In California, Healthy Times Natural Foods has switched from Canola oil (which is sometimes altered) to safflower oil after hearing from Greenpeace. Gerber is going a step further than that. The company plans to use corn flour and soy flour that is "organic," with no genetic modifications or insecticides or herbicides. Al Piergallini, president and chief executive officer of Gerber's parent company, Novartis AG, said, "I want our mothers to be comfortable." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 11 22:24:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA15897 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11370 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11323 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10774 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.238] (term7-48.vta.west.net [205.254.243.48]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A364249D8 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:42:01 -0800 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Swiss farmers seek compensation for GE contamination of maize seed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2197 Swiss soiled seed prompts tolerance question by Ingeborg Furst Nature Biotechnology, Volume 17 / July 1999 Page 629 On July 1, the Swiss government's tolerance standard for genetic purity of food comes into effect. Switzerland is the first country in Europe to set a limit for genetic contamination, but current controversy over genetically contaminated corn seeds highlights the urgent EU-wide need for such a standard for crops. In May, it was discovered by the Swiss Department of Agriculture (Budesamt fur Landwirtschaft; Bern) and the district president of Baden-Wurtlemberg (Tubingen, Germany) that Pioneer Hi-Bred's (Des Moines, IA) nongenetically modified corn seed varieties, Ulla and Benicia, actually contained novel genes from a variety of corn genetically modified to be resistant to the corn borer, Bacillus thuringiensis. Contamination of the seeds, which were harvested in the United States, was "probably caused by stray pollen during the growing season," says Ulrich Schmidt, managing director of Pioneer in Buxtehude, Germany, which represents the grain manufacturer in Switzerland. It is likely that incorporation of pollen from GM varieties into Ulla and Benicia occurred this way because "Pioneer does not offer a commercial GM variety of Ulla or Benicia." Before the contamination was discovered, Pioneer had sold enough Ulla and Benicia seeds to sow 400 hectares (roughly 0.5% of total corn cultivation in Switzerland), about 200 hectares of which had already been planted. Estimates of the amount of genetic contamination of non-GM DNA by GM DNA vary between 0.1 and 0.5%-- respectively below the limit set in both countries for contamination resulting from physical mixing of varieties. Under German and Swiss seed market laws, this "technical" contamination with seed from weed and other varieties can be as high as 3% and 5%, respectively. But because there are no tolerance standards set for genetic purity, the contaminated Pioneer seeds are not approved for release into the environment, and planting therefore infringes the Swiss environment conservation law (Umweltschutzgesetz), as well as violating the German gene technology law (Gentechnikgesetz). As a result, the Swiss Department of Agriculture (Bundesamt fur Landwirtschaft, Bern) has prohibited the import and trade of contaminated Ulla and Benicia and has ordered the destruction of any already sown. However, Pioneer and the entire grain industry are not able to guarantee the genetic purity of their conventional non-GM varieties, says Schmidt. "Genetic inserts are in the nature of things," agrees Rainer Linneweber, spokesperson for Novartis Seed (Bad Salzuflen, Germany). "Despite our high-level quality management and our ISO certification, even a 100% [technical] purity for conventional seed is utopian," he adds. But although the Swiss government has now set a 1% tolerance standard for genetic contamination of food, such a standard for crops remains absent. In the meantime, both Switzerland and Germany have analyzed the contaminated seed: The Swiss Department of Agriculture could detect by PCR the presence but not the amount of DNA sequences from GM corn varieties. But analysis ordered by the Baden-Wurttemberg district has called two specific GM varieties into question &endash; one from Pioneer and one from another unnamed grain manufacturer, according to Grit Puchan, spokesperson for the Baden-Wurttemberg district. "We still need to clarify whether or not these GM-corn seed varieties have been granted marketing approval in the EU and subsequently in Germany," says Puchan. If they have, the release of their contaminants would already be approved under the existing EU 90/220 directive. In this case, Pioneer must simply label the seeds accordingly to satisfy German authorities, says Edgar Muschketat, spokesperson for the Berlin-based Robert-Koch-Institut, which approves the release of GMOs into the environment. But this question is irrelevant, according to Hans-Georg Dederer, jurist at the Institute for Public Law at the University of Bonn, who says a loophole in the law means that genetically contaminated seeds need no special approval under 90/220. "A crop genetically modified by stray pollen is not a product within the meaning of 90/220, because 'product' implies a willful preparation," he says. Meanwhile, a "witch hunt-like atmosphere" reigns in Switzerland, says Klaus Ammann, director of the Botanic Garden at the University of Bern and member of the Commission for Biosafety (Kommission fur biologische Sicherheit). But although some corn fields have been destroyed by fire or herbicides, many farmers (mainly in western Switzerland) refuse to destroy the corn until Pioneer and the Swiss government agree to compensate them. In addition, the Swiss farmers' association (Schweizerischer Bauernverband) is deciding whether to file a class action lawsuit against Pioneer (via the Swiss seed importer), and Pioneer is considering halting sales via the Swiss seed importer to farmers in Switzerland. As Nature Biotechnology was going to press, the Swiss seed importer Eric Schweizer Samen AG agreed to pay farmers 700 Swiss Francs per hectare. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 04:58:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA20616 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 04:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA05162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 04:13:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA05101 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 04:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0098.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.98]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20484; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 01:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B16018.8DC82C37@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:35:52 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha CC: SANET-mg Subject: Re: maggots References: <19990810180703.13970.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2198 An easy way to do with garbage: either grind in the blender (using an extra jar for just that purpose) and pour the liquid into a hole in the soil. OR, just dig a hole and chop the garbage into that soil, then fill the hole with soil. Over the years, I find these methods easier in the long run, than any other tricks. Blending is really good, the stuff disappears inot the soil and will surely be easy for earthworms to incorporate. Misha wrote: > Howdy, all-- > > Well, since I went ballistic on the need to control RATS in big-city > compost heaps, I feel some compunction to respond to this one. :^) > > It's funny, but as soon as I saw the "Subject" line of this message > and who it was from, I thought, "She's got em in her new composter." > :^D > > >the compost seems to be doing well. but now i noticed this > >morning as i opened the lid to peer in that there are > >hundreds of maggots (i quess that's what they are) eating > >the grapes and tomatoes that i tossed in the past few days. > > the surface was boiling with them. Eeeek. i thought the > >years growing up on the farm had cured me of a squeemish > >stomach, but this made me a bit sick. > > White, squirming, about the size of a grain of rice, and, yes, > "boiling." Sounds like some fly's larvae to me. Which is what maggots > are. I've got goosebumps on my legs just thinking about it. Talk > about ancient genetic memory. And no amount of experience can take it > away. It's just there. > > >i know the advice was to mush everything up before it went > >into the composter, but i haven't been doing that. should > >i worry about all these squirming things? > > Only if you mind playing host to flies. OK, ready? Are you eating? > Stop, or come back later to read this. > > Common house flies lay their eggs on rotting material--up to 100 per > brood. These hatch out into maggots, which feed on the place they've > hatched till they can become grown up flies. > > A fly can carry four million microbes that cause hepatitis, > salmonella, dysentery, typhoid, cholera, tapeworm, hookworm, and > more. Flies are major disease vectors in many parts of the world. > > They have sticky-pads on their feet (kinda like post-its), that let > them walk surfaces at any angle. The glue picks up microbes and other > substances from anything they land on. But here's more joy: they > taste thru their feet. So they walk on everything to check it out. > Kate's organic compost is the least of our worries. The fly that has > just checked out (and tested the palatability of) the dog droppings > on the lawn or the puddle of in the alley, and laid its > eggs there to hatch and feast--well, you get my point--it goes on to > check out and test the palatability of, say, your sandwich. Your > drinking glass. Your apple. Or your organic compost for that matter. > > And just think: our high-chemical-control-inclined sistren and > brethren, who spray the dickens out of fly-intensive places, give the > resistant SuperFlies (no Richard Roundtree jokes, please) an > opportunity to distribute those pesticides around with their busy > little bodies. > > Here's more Fun Fly Facts that David Cronenberg didn't have to make > up. They sponge their food up with a proboscis. But what about solid > food, you ask. Easily taken care of: the fly regurgitates its saliva > onto the food to liquefy it. Can you imagine what's in that drool? > And, yes, they leave residues of that stuff around between meals. As > well as their own droppings (flyspecks). > > A fly generation runs about a month, but in the course of a summer, a > single fly can produce up to a dozen broods. Litters. Or whatever > you'd call a mingle of maggots. > > And these are just plain old common house flies, the black ones. > Green and blue bottle flies look for carrion. Then there are > horseflies, and stable flies, which can bite thru fabric and leather > (after all, horses wear horsehide). Mosquitoes, whom we all know > well. Gnats and midges. All blood-suckers. > > But your maggots, Kate, in my experience of that part of the world, > are probably houseflies and some bottle flies perhaps. > > First of all, trust your evolutionary revulsion and destroy the > things. Scrape them off into a pail of scalding hot soapy water, with > whatever words of karmic apology you consider called for, and Do Them > In. I always liked the prayer that Russell Hoban had one of his > characters utter in the novel /Riddley Walker/ during a boar hunt: > "Your turn now, my turn later." The world doesn't need more flies. Or > maggots. Or flies. Or maggots. Or--you get the picture. > > Next, when you add things to your compost, tuck them into the top > third or so of what's there; this is easier as your heap gets fuller. > Or if you compost grass clippings, leaves, shredded paper, etc., that > can tuck the food wastes in. But flies in my experience are not drawn > to composters as readily if wet and rotting foods aren't exposed. > They beam in on the smell of putrefaction. This won't stop the flies > from trying, but it may cut down on the number of those who do. > > I've learned thru various urban gardeners the trick of planting mint > around the composter. Flies don't like mint. The next trick is to > keep the mint from taking over your neighborhood, but you already > know about that. > > Other things folks have planted near the composter: basil, tansy, > marigolds, and suchlike scented herbs. Someone once suggested putting > the composter next to the herb garden, but I wouldn't do that--I > wouldn't want to encourage flies in stopping near the composter and > landing on the herbs. I've also known folks who've used traditional > herbal fly repellants around their composters, like pennyroyal, > camphor, eucalyptus, or bay--hanging bruised leaves in clusters or > applying dabs of oil to the outside of the composter. > > Also, encourage biodiversity: ants, frogs, toads, spiders, snakes, > and birds will feast on maggots. You *could* try laying open the > composter and seeing who comes to tidy up...but the maggots could > just tuck away where they're not seen. > > I would think that a pet toad or snake would be a great idea. A > garden-living pet, that is. Give them a down-low garden light near > the composter, turn it on a few hours a night to provide a nice > supply of bugs...but now I'm digressing into urban wild habitat.... > > If you find that flies are entirely out of control, you can put > screen around your composter (I once ended up lining a compost bin > with hardware cloth to control bees and flies). > > I personally think setting fly traps out (bottle traps baited with > food or pheromone lures) is a good idea. > > People controlling flies in livestock areas have resorted to many, > and sometimes desperate, measures. Some--like electric zappers, > biological controls, flypaper, and pheromone traps--are > environmentally more benign than others--like "no pest" strips, > sprays, and ear tags. But if you've ever grappled with a dense hoard > of flies in the summer--biting ones or not--you can understand why > people were so excited about DDT when it came out. The knockdown-kill > effect must have been stunning for folks to witness. > > Don't get me wrong: flies are recyclers, and maggots clean up a lot > of stuff that we humans leave behind, etc. But like many city > creatures (including humans), they have concentrated to the point > where living with them is not only unpleasant, it can be dangerous. > It's a tenuous balance we humans expect of nature in the very cities > we've built to be colonies for a limited number of species. Without > the usual checks and balances in place, you may have to assert > control while working to increase biodiversity. Making cities more > sustainable is big work. > > I can post some resources Friday if folks are interested. > > peace > misha > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michele Gale-Sinex > Communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > http://www.wisc.edu > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Half of this game is ninety percent mental. --former Philadelphia Phillies > manager Danny Ozark > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 04:58:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id EAA20620 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 04:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA05632 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 04:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA05534 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 04:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0098.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.98]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20593; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 01:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B165DB.7C73D3C6@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 05:00:27 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: riaanb@iafrica.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: maggots, um yummy References: <000501bee3d5$1f5bc640$9cc007c4@spock1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2199 In my childhood in Madagascar, we several times had grasshoppers in clouds, coming with a rasping noise, descending on gardens and eating everything down to the ground. The natives ate them. I never could stand to eat one, but my sister did and found them palatable enough. Riaan Botes wrote: > Hi I think this is my first post to this group. I have been lurking here for > over a year - very interesting. > > |We were thinking of growing maggots for food, dry them and > |grind them up. > |Insects, the food for the next millenium. Join the leading edge. > > In Benin, West Africa, there is a sustainable agric college called Songhai. > They use maggots in a very interesting manner. > > I stand corrected on the figures, but as I recall them: > > They have an area of about 20m x 30m divided up into 1m x 1m recesses about > 15cm deep and each "hole/bin" is surrounded by a channel. Into these bins go > kitchen offal, dead rodents, lizards, pig sty gunk etc. etc. and vegetable > refuse. All mixed together - a fly gourmet diner. > > The flies lay eggs, maggots hatch and eat/process this stuff and when the > maggots cannot find any food left in these bins, they crawl out in search of > more. They then fall into the channels where they are collected and put in > buckets. Once all the maggots have left a bin, the content is removed and > then new mix added. > > 1. The maggots are collected by the elderly in the community - giving them > the opportunity to contribute - instead of being sidelined. > 2. The remnant material from the bins is compost and this is reworked into > the communal gardens. > 3. It tends to concentrate the flies around these bins and keeps them away > from the rest of the area, especially food preparation areas. > 4. Maggots are 70% protein > 5. 1 ton gunk produces 7 tons of maggots > 6. Used as fish food in aquaculture they produce about 2 tons of Tilapia, > which are harvested and sold to the surrounding communities. > > The project director has a saying ".. that there is no free lunch for anyone > here. Even the flies have to work for their food". > > Cheers > > Riaan > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 09:59:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA02224 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24528 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:08:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24466 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:08:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:12:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Tom Green'" Subject: FW: Conference: Adding Value through Env. Marketing Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:12:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2200 Message is a bit long. **FOR MORE INFORMATION Contact The IPM Institute of North America, Inc., 1914 Rowley Ave., Madison WI 53705, (608) 232-1528, FAX (608) 232-1530; or visit the web site at http://www.iatp.org/enviroag/ for conference updates. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Green [mailto:tagreen@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 11:25 PM To: Andy Clark ****CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT**** **Adding Value through Environmental Marketing: Opportunities for Food Producers, Processors and Retailers** **DATES: December 6-7, 1999, closing by 2 PM on December 7 **LOCATION: Edgewater Hotel, Madison WI, USA **CONFERENCE GOALS: 1. Build awareness of Environmental Management Systems (EMSs) and potential for use in environmentally identified/certified marketing, including rationale and mechanisms 2. Create an atmosphere where decision makers in a variety of food chains can initiate relationships leading to expanded adoption of EMSs in production and marketing, with a focus on major field crops in the upper midwest including meat and dairy products as the largest destinations for these field crops. **RATIONALE: A revolution in attitudes and buying habits is sweeping through the marketplace. A whopping 52% of consumers indicate a willingness to pay price premiums for food produced with minimal harm to the environment. The following headlines hint at the scope of the rapid, global change confronting our industry: "Stores Can't Meet Rising Demand for Organic Food" - The Daily Telegraph, January 7, 1999 "FTC Releases Revised Consumer Brochure about 'Green' Claims" - M2 Presswire, April 23, 1999 "Horizon Organic Milks the Competition and Moves into Other Natural Realms" - The Wall Street Journal, March 9, 1999 "Monsanto Pushes Benefits of GM Foods to the Environment" - Irish Times, March 1, 1999 "Often-Scorned 'Green' Funds Turn Rivals Green with Envy" - Dow Jones News Service, March 5, 1999 To make optimum decisions, those involved in food production, processing, distribution and marketing need to be fully informed on these and following issues: * Are consumers aware of the efforts producers and others in agriculture have made to reduce environmental impacts? What are the most effective ways to communicate these actions and benefits to consumers? * How large is the "green" consumer market? How do I recognize a "green" consumer? How fast is the environmental market growing? * What's the difference between organic, natural, IPM and other eco-labels? Which standard is most appropriate for my products and markets? How do the various standards regulate compliance, maintain credibility and prevent cheating? * What's the connection between consumers' food safety and environmental concerns? What's the current status on the market for GMO crops? How can I help my organization and our customers separate hype and hysteria from real benefits to the environment worthy of support? * Will "green" products earn a price premium or greater market access in my industry? How will premium dollars be distributed among producers, processors, distributors and retailers? How have "green" prices fared compared to the recent historic lows in commodity crops and livestock? * Do the benefits to producers, processors and others outweigh the costs? * If I develop and market a "green" product line, how will consumers respond to my conventional products? * How do I produce and market environmentally identified products? What are the pitfalls to avoid? Who can help me develop an effective program? * Do environmental production and marketing programs really make a difference? Do they invite greater government regulation, or less? * What's my next step? Participants in the conference will be armed with accurate, complete and up-to-date information and establish valuable new relationships with experienced professionals and potential partners. Register now by calling (608) 232-1528 or by completing the enclosed registration form and faxing to (608) 265-3163. Space is limited. Register early, avoid the higher late registration fee, and ensure your participation with senior executives and managers from farm organizations, processors, grocery manufacturers, distributors, retailers, government and pubic interest groups. **PRELIMINARY PROGRAM Monday, December 6, 1999 7:00 AM Registration and Continental Breakfast 7:45 AM Welcome and Introduction Thomas Green, Ph.D., President, IPM Institute of North America, Inc., Madison WI 7:55 AM Room for Improvement in Production Practices Harold Coble, Ph.D., IPM Coordinator, USDA, Washington, D.C. 8:15 AM Consumers Demand for "Green" Products Harvey Hartman, President, The Hartman Group, Seattle WA 9:00 AM Lessons from the Organic Experience Katherine DiMatteo, Executive Director, Organic Trade Association, Greenfield MA 9:20 AM Establishing the Largest Organic Brand Mark Retzloff, Senior Vice President, Horizon Organic Dairy, Longmont CO 10:00 AM Break 10:30 AM IPM Label Products on Supermarket Shelves William Pool, Manager, Agricultural Production and Research, Wegmans Food Markets, Rochester NY; and Curt Petzoldt, Asst. Director, NYS IPM Program, Cornell University, Geneva NY 11:15 AM Audience-Led Discussion with Presenter Panel Coble, Hartman, DiMatteo, Retzloff, Pool, Petzoldt 12:00 Noon Lunch and Presentation: Environmental Management Systems and Standards: ISO 14000 Jeff Wilson, Owner, Birkbank Farm, Orton Ontario Tom O'Neill, Manager, Norfolk Fruit Growers, Ontario 1:15 PM Exporting Environmentally Identified Grains Dan Burke, President, Pacific Soybean and Grain, San Francisco CA 1:55 PM Natural Foods Distribution and Marketing Ron Lautrup, National Commodities Mgr., United Natural Foods, Inc., Dayville CT 2:35 PM Break 3:05 PM The Food Alliance Deborah Kane, Executive Director, Portland OR 3:20 PM Ontario Farm Plan Ellen Wall, Research Scientist, University of Guelph Ontario 3:35 PM Chesapeake MilkTM , Eco-labeled by Environmental Quality Initiative Lori Sandman, Executive Director, Kutztown PA 3:50 PM IPM Institute of North America Thomas Green 4:05 PM Audience-Led Discussion with Presenter Panel Wilson, Burke, Lautrup, Kane, Wall, Sandman, Green 4:50 PM Closing Remarks Harold Coble 7:00 PM Reception Tuesday, December 7, 1999 7:00 AM Continental Breakfast 7:50 AM Charge for Breakout Sessions: Ensuring Environmental Marketing Success A facilitated opportunity to examine in detail the issues common to a specific food production chain, make connections with other decision makers in your own and related businesses, and explore opportunities to create ongoing relationships Breakout 1: Feed Grains and Meat Products Breakout 2: Feed Grains and Dairy Products Breakout 3: Processed Food Grains and Sugar Breakout 4: Potatoes, Fresh and Processed Fruit and Vegetables 9:30 AM Break 10:00 AM Repeat of Breakout Sessions (to allow your participation in more than one chain) 11:30 AM Self-Guided Walking Tour of Posted Reports from Breakout Sessions 12:00 Noon Lunch and Informal Discussion 1:00 PM Where to from here? Brief comments from designated listeners on key issues raised during the conference followed by a round robin of participant comments on needs and plans for the future 2:00 PM Conference Close **PRESENTERS: Harold Coble, Ph.D., USDA National IPM Coordinator, Washington, D.C. Dr. Coble also fills both research and extension roles as Professor of Weed Science at North Carolina State University (NCSU). His major research efforts have been in weed biology and ecology and in developing economic weed control systems for cotton, peanuts, corn and soybeans. Dr. Coble received his B.S. and M.S. degrees in Crop Science from NCSU and his Ph.D. in agronomy from the University of Illinois. In addition to serving as Council for Agricultural Science and Technology representative, Dr. Coble has served as President of the Weed Science Society of America, and the Weed Science Society of North Carolina. Harvey Hartman, President, The Hartman Group, Seattle, Washington. Mr. Hartman works with senior management of companies to ensure the success of strategic marketing programs. He has lectured on environmental business and marketing strategy at leading business schools and co-authored major studies including: Natural Sensibility: A Study of America's Changing Culture (1998): The Evolving Organic Marketplace (1997); The Hartman Report, Food and the Environment, A Consumers Perspective (1996 & 1997); and The Greening of Consumers: A Retailers Guide (1997). Mr. Hartman has consulted to Fortune 500 companies, EPA, FDA, USDA, World Wildlife Fund and others. Katherine DiMatteo, Executive Director, Organic Trade Association, Greenfield, Massachusetts. Ms. DiMatteo has led the OTA since 1990, overseeing its growth to over 1000 members including growers, packers, retailers, processors, certifiers, farmer associations, brokers, consultants and distributors. OTA promotes organic products, protects the organic standards and serves as the leading voice and resource on organic agriculture and products. OTA is active in the International Federation of Organic Agriculture Movements, creating a global system of organic production and verification. Mark Retzloff, Senior Vice President, Corporate Development, Horizon Organic Dairy, Longmont, Colorado. Mr. Retzloff is in charge of mergers, acquisitions and co-branding. Horizon is the #1 organic brand in the US, producing certified organic milk, cheese and other dairy products nationwide through a network of organic milk producers and processors. The company's products are sold by more than 8,000 conventional supermarkets, specialty retailers and natural foods stores. Horizon has experienced 67% sales growth over the past year. William Pool, Manager, Agricultural Production and Research, Wegmans Food Markets, Rochester, New York. Since 1995, Mr. Pool has led Wegmans' innovative Integrated Pest Management (IPM) food product marketing program. The project involving land-grant universities like Cornell and Penn State, fresh market and processing vegetable growers in 4 states, and processed vegetable packers in two states. Wegmans is a privately held retailer with 60 retail stores in three states and sales approaching $2.5 billion in 1999. Curtis Petzoldt, Ph.D., Assistant Director, NY State IPM Program, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York. Dr. Petzoldt's responsibilities have included managing Cornell's IPM-labeling effort, including working with organizations such as Wegmans Food Markets and the New York State Berry Growers Association to establish their Cornell-licensed IPM food product labels. Dr. Petzoldt's publications include IPM systems for onions, sweet corn, snap beans, potatoes and cabbage. Dr. Petzoldt holds a Ph.D. in Plant Pathology from the University of California at Davis. Jeff Wilson, Owner, Birkbank Farms, Orton, Ontario. Mr. Wilson has operated Birkbank Farms since 1976, producing small fruit and vegetable crops on 300 acres. Birkbank Farms has completed a structured self-assessment of environmental issues on the farm, as part of the Ontario Farm Plan. Mr. Wilson is former chair of Agricultural Groups Concerned About Resources and the Environment (AGCARE), a member of the Ontario Farm and Environmental Coalition, and has addressed international audiences on his experience with environmental management systems in agriculture. Daniel Burke, President, Pacific Soybean and Grain, San Francisco, California. In 1974, Mr. Burke founded Pacific Soybean & Grain, an international supplier of organic and non-GMO ingredients for specialty food processors, with offices in San Francisco, CA, Story, City, IA and Tokyo, Japan. The company has innovated identity-preserved systems for improved seed selection, post-harvest handling, storage and distribution of premium food-grade soybean varieties for use throughout the soyfoods industry. Mr. Burke has held numerous leadership roles in various trade organizations, including the Soyfoods Association of North America, the Organic Trade Association and IFOAM, and has addressed numerous industry conferences in Asia, Europe, North America and Central America. Ron Lautrup, National Commodities Manager, United Natural Foods, Dayville, Connecticut. Mr. Lautrup is responsible for procurement strategies and grower/supplier relations for all unbranded and bulk products. United Natural Foods is the largest natural foods distributor in the U.S., supplying more than 6,500 retail stores in 46 states with groceries, body care products, supplements and frozen foods. The company achieved $729 million in sales in 1998, representing 73% growth over the previous year. Ellen Wall, Research Scientist, University of Guelph Farming Systems Research, Guelph Ontario. For the past five years, Dr. Wall has worked with an inter-disciplinary team examining sustainable agriculture issues, including a comprehensive analysis of the international standard for environmental systems, ISO 14001, and its implications for the agricultural sector. Deborah Kane, Executive Director, The Food Alliance (TFA), Portland, Oregon. Deborah is charged with organizational development of TFA, a non-profit organization increasing awareness of the link between environmentally friendly farming practices and protection of natural resources. Farmers who meet TFA's strict eligibility requirements can market their products with the TFA-Approved Seal. Deborah earned an M.S. in Conservation Ecology and Sustainable Development from the University of Georgia and has over ten years experience in agriculture and environmental non-profit management. Lori Sandman, Executive Director, Environmental Quality Initiative, Inc. (EQI), Kutztown, Pennsylvania. Ms. Sandman served as Project Manager for the Dairy Network Partnership (DNP), a coalition formed by the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, Pennsylvania Association for Sustainable Agriculture, Penn State University, Rodale Institute and US EPA. DNP is now succeeded by EQI, developing incentives for reducing environmental impacts of agriculture. Chesapeake MilkTM bears the EQI eco-label, and is currently being test marketed in the Mid-Atlantic region. Thomas Green, Ph.D., President, IPM Institute of North America, Inc., Madison, Wisconsin. Dr. Green founded an IPM supply business, now part of GEMPLER'S, Inc., a national direct marketer to agriculture. He provides consulting services to industries and organizations working to broaden adoption of IPM. He co-founded the IPM Institute, a non-profit organization developing IPM practice guidelines and certification for agriculture, buildings and grounds. He holds a Ph.D. in Entomology from the University of Massachusetts. Adding Value through Environmental Marketing: Opportunities for Food Producers, Processors and Retailers Adding Value through Environmental Marketing: Opportunities for Food Producers, Processors and Retailers December 6-7, 1999 at the Edgewater Hotel, Madison, Wisconsin **REGISTRATION FORM [For a printable registration form, go to http://www.iatp.org/enviroag/ Please complete and fax to 608-265-3163, or mail with payment to Environmental Marketing Conference, Pat Gaitan, The Pyle Center, Room 139, 702 Langdon St., Madison, WI 53706. Name: Badge Name: Company/Organization: Address: City, State, Zip: Telephone: Fax: E-mail: Registration fee includes entrance to sessions, continental breakfasts, lunches and refreshment breaks (two days); conference materials and reception Monday evening. See information on hotel accommodations on reverse. All registrations sent after August 23, 1999 will be required to pay the higher fee of $200. Registration: ____ $160.00 on or before August 23, 1999 ____ $200.00 after August 23, 1999 Your sponsorship will help defray the costs of the conference. Sponsorships include one registration, a display table in the break area of the main meeting room and acknowledgements on the conference web site and program. Sponsorship: ____ $1000.00 Gold ____ $750.00 Silver ____ $400.00 Bronze Method of Payment: ___ Mastercard ___ Visa ___ American Express Cardholder Name: Credit Card Number: Exp. Date: Signature (required for credit card transactions): Fax form with credit card numbers and signature to 608-265-3163, or mail form with check or money order payable to UW-Extension to the above address. **ACCOMMODATIONS Blocks of rooms have been reserved for the nights of December 5 and 6 at the facilities listed below. Please reserve your room directly with the lodging site of your choice and identify yourself as a participant of the Environmental Marketing Conference to ensure your special conference rates. A credit card number will be required to guarantee your room. The deadline for room reservations at the conference rate is November 1, 1999, at which time room blocks will be released. All Conference Sessions will be held at the Edgewater Hotel. The Edgewater Hotel On Lake Mendota Standard $89.00 666 Wisconsin Avenue Lakefront $129.00 800-922-5512 or 608-256-9071 Suite $169.00 Room rate applies for one to four persons per room, please mention group code 2319 when placing your reservation Web site: www.gowisconsin.com\edgewater Complimentary airport shuttle available The Concourse Hotel 1 West Dayton St. Single $85.00 800-356-8293 or 608 257-6000 Double $95.00 Web site: www.concoursehotel.com Complimentary airport shuttle available (Four blocks from the conference site) The Madison Inn 601 Langdon St. Single $52.00 608-257-4391 Double $62.00 (Four blocks from the conference site) Madison is also home to a number of distinguished Bed and Breakfasts. Mansion Hill Inn, (608) 255-3999, and Collins House (608) 255-4230, are conveniently located near the conference hotel. **TRANSPORTATION Dane County Regional Airport, in Madison, is served by United, Northwest, Midwest Express, and other major airlines. Madison is approximately 2 hours drive from Milwaukee's General Mitchell Airport, and three hours from Chicago O'Hare Airport. Bus service is available from downtown Chicago and O'Hare to within 6 blocks of the Edgewater Hotel, via Van Galder Bus Co., 800-747-0994, and from downtown Milwaukee and Mitchell via Badger Coaches, 608-255-6771. Adding Value through Environmental Marketing: Opportunities for Food Producers, Processors and Retailers **FOR MORE INFORMATION Contact The IPM Institute of North America, Inc., 1914 Rowley Ave., Madison WI 53705, (608) 232-1528, FAX (608) 232-1530; or visit the web site at http://www.iatp.org/enviroag/ for conference updates. Sponsors to date: The Joyce Foundation, US EPA Pesticide Environmental Stewardship Program, National Science Foundation Center for IPM, The Food Alliance. Coordinators: Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, Illinois Environmental Protection Agency, IPM Institute of North America, Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, Ohio Citizen Action, University of Guelph Farming Systems Research, University of Wisconsin Cooperative Extension IPM Program, Center for Integrated Agricultural Studies Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project ****************************** Thomas A. Green, Ph.D. IPM Works 1914 Rowley Ave Madison WI 53705 608 232-1528 608 232-1530 (fax) tagreen@compuserve.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 10:00:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA02251 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26824 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:10:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26752 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:10:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA14032; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002c01bee4c3$3357cba0$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "Kate Smith" , Subject: Re: maggot-cide Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:53:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2201 Hi Kate and Sanet: A website with a good listing of sources of nematodes and other beneficial organisms is: Suppliers of Beneficial Organisms in North America http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/dprdocs/goodbug/benefic.htm There are listings for parasitic wasps that attack houseflies, too, but they are probably more appropriate for use for long-term control in barns with a continuing supply of manure than in a compost pile. Kim Stoner -----Original Message----- From: Kate Smith To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:53 AM Subject: maggot-cide >Good morning all, > >Gulp. I guess my course of action is elimination of the >pests. Gad, I have so little capacity to kill. > >But Misha weaves a pretty convincing arguement. Of all the >methods that were mentioned, the nematodes poured in with >water seem the most compatible with my temperment. > >Though having a pet frog or snake sounds ok. The problem >is Molly, Izzy, and Jake--my three dogs. I can see them >ganging up on any small creature I try to introduce into >their outdoor space. > >Scrapping off and putting in boiling water is definitely >out of my reach. Reminds me of the last time I was near >Lobsters being cooked. I had to leave the room. > >The insecticidal nematodes, are these easily acquired? > >kate > > > > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 10:46:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA03360 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26344 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:03:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26295 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:06:39 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'campaign@magiccarpet.com'" Subject: National Campaign Job Opening Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:06:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2202 >From: "Natl. Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture" > >Subject: National Campaign Job Opening >NATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE > >P.O. Box 396, Pine Bush, NY 12566, (914) 744-8448, Fax: (914) 744-8477, > email: Campaign@magiccarpet.com > >JOB ANNOUNCEMENT: ORGANIZER -- IMMEDIATE OPENING > >The National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture is a diverse network of >over 2000 organizations working collaboratively to shape national policies >to foster a sustainable food and agriculture system -- one that is >economically viable, environmentally sound, socially just, and humane. We >are seeking to hire a full-time Organizer to work on a variety of policy >advocacy activities. This is a newly created position. > >Responsibilities: >-Staff Issue Committees working on issues in the following areas: Family >Farm Income, Rural Development/ Marketing, Minority Farmers and >Farmworkers, Research, Conservation, and Community Food Security. > >-Coordinate with leaders who monitor relevant national policy developments > >-Initiate grassroots action as needed > >-Facilitate collaboration with organizations on relevant Farm Bill (2002) >activities > >-Produce action alerts, media advisories, fact sheets, etc... in >collaboration with other groups and assist with other organizational >communications > >-Organize Issue-related meetings and assist with other meetings > >-Do outreach to varied constituencies and initiate participation in >Campaign activities > >Qualifications: >-Experience organizing collaborative efforts of diverse groups on policy >advocacy >-Proven organizational and project management skills >-Strong written and verbal skills, experience writing media advisories >-Ability to coordinate a variety of activities >-Ability to recruit, motivate, and coordinate people of different >backgrounds and interest communities >-Strong diplomatic skills >-Proficiency with word processing and email communications >-Ability to travel and work on weekends as needed for travel >-Knowledge and experience with agriculture and/or environmental policies a >plus >-Knowledge and experience with fundraising a plus >-Commitment to promoting sustainable and socially just farm and food >policies >-Ability to work independently and as a team member >-Minimum commitment through 2002 Farm Bill > >Location: Preferable location at our main office in Pine Bush, N.Y. Pine >Bush is a rural community located 75 miles outside of the metropolitan NY >area. > >Salary and Benefits: $28,000-$35,000 depending on experience, plus benefits >package, full time with flexible scheduling available. > >To Apply: Send cover letter, resume, SHORT writing samples, and references >to >Amy Little, Executive Director, National Campaign for Sustainable >Agriculture, PO Box 396, Pine Bush, NY 12566 >Deadline: September 1, 1999 > >People of color are encouraged to apply. >The National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture is an equal Opportunity >Employer >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Amy Little, Executive Director >National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture >P.O. Box 396 >Pine Bush, NY 12566 >P: 914-744-8448; F: 914-74-8477 >campaign@magiccarpet.com >http://www.SustainableAgriculture.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Liana Hoodes National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture P.O. Box 396 Pine Bush, New York 12566 Phone: 914-744-8448 Fax: 914-744-8477 emamil: campaign@magiccarpet.com http://www.SustainableAgriculture.net If you would like to join our (free) Action Alert Network, please email us your name, address, phone, fax, and email. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 13:54:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA10327 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15789 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:01:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.mcsweb1.com (postoff@mail.mcsweb1.com [209.63.201.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15734 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nt1.mcsweb1.com ([209.63.202.78]) by mail.mcsweb1.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-44404U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA21798 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:35:13 -0700 Received: by NT1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:05:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3156F97367AED211878F00902713A33E03FF6A@NT1> From: Jonathan Moscatello To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: Cherise Melton Subject: Position Announcement- farm manager Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:05:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2203 While this is short notice, I would encourage applicants to apply. This is a great opportunity to get some practical experience working in CA agriculture and with Cambodian Refugees. Jonathan Moscatello Farm Manager Rural California Housing Corporation 3120 Freeboard Drive Suite 202 Sacramento, CA 95691 (916) 414-4400 (916) 414-4490 fax RURAL CALIFORNIA HOUSING CORPORATION 3120 Freeboard Drive Suite 202, West Sacramento, CA 95691 (916) 414-4000 fax (916) 414-4490. JOB DESCRIPTION: FARM MANAGER Open until 8/16/99 Salary: $2,373-3,094 per month + benefits (steps 11-17) Division: Rental Operations Status: Full-time Exempt Supervisor: Sr. Resident Services Manager OBJECTIVE: The Rural California Housing Corporation (RCHC) is a nonprofit housing and community development organization. The mission of RCHC is to improve the living conditions of low-income people within the service area of the organization. RCHC has received a two year grant for the Park Village Farm Project. The purpose of this project is to establish a self-sustaining farm that will promote food security and create economic opportunities for low-income families living in Park Village Apartments in Stockton, CA. The Farm Manager will be responsible for all operations of the farm and for training project participants to manage the farm themselves. This position is funded for a maximum of two years (through Sept 2000), at which time the participants will take over all operations. The farm site is on 27 acres located near Lathrop just south of Stockton. RESPONSIBILITIES: Specific job goals, objectives and tasks are established for each employee as part of the annual evaluation and work plan process. The following are general responsibilities: 1. Manage operations of the farm 2. Train participants on all aspects of farm operations, business management and marketing so they can assume full responsibility for running the farm within one year 3. Oversee the farm subscription (CSA) program 4. Implement farmers market sales for the farm 5. Collaborate with other partner organizations to provide a support network and training opportunities for participants 6. Assist with the establishment of the business entity that will own and operate the farm 7. Establish and oversee a record keeping system for the business 8. Help with the development of new sustainable agriculture projects at RCHC. KNOWLEDGE, ABILITIES AND SKILLS 1. Three years experience working in agriculture, preferably in managing a small farm 2. Ability to market produce and ability to make contacts in the wholesale agriculture market 3. Ability to manage the operational and business aspects of a small farm 4. Understanding of community food security and sustainable agriculture preferred 5. Ability and willingness to teach others farm operations 6. Ability to work effectively with the Southeast Asian community 7. Ability to speak Cambodian preferred, but not necessary 8. Sensitivity to the philosophy upon which the Park Village Farm Project was developed 9. Demonstrated ability to work independently 10. Ability to use word processing and spreadsheet programs 11. Valid California driver's license and ability to use personal vehicle that can be used for business travel. RURAL CALIFORNIA HOUSING CORPORATION IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 17:42:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA15732 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08943 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08813 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.59.109.94] (diallv116.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.116]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06100 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Average compensation for CA farm managers? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2204 Dear Sanet, Would anyone be willing to share information about salaries/compensation packages for farm managers operating a diverse organic farm in California? Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 21:16:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19570 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07102 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:30:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06999 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990813003009.XACQ16727.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:30:09 -0700 Message-ID: <37B3683C.3F77131F@home.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:35:08 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: maggot-cide References: <199908122210.SAA28267@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2205 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Subject: Re: maggot-cide > > Ivefound that a gallon or two of dihydrogen monoxide at say 120 degrees F kills em dead diego bill To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 12 21:20:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA19600 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15109 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:39:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15021 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26781 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-7.ofrf.org (ofrf7.tychonet.com [205.179.36.7]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id RAA25946 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:38:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jane@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990812173606.009597b0@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: jane2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:37:55 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: unique farmer protest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2206 rip 'n' read off the AP wire: S. Korea Official Cut Self in Protest SEOUL, South Korea--The head of a livestock farmers' association tried to kill himself during a Parliamentary hearing Thursday to protest a government plan to restructure his group. Shin Koo-bum, head of the Korea Federation of Livestock Farmers' Cooperatives, slashed his abdomen with a knife as lawmakers pondered a bill on the restructuring, National Assembly officials said. Shin was rushed to a hospital. The national station KBS-TV reported that he was not critically injured. Despite the bloodshed, the assembly's Agriculture and Fisheries Committee approved the bill Shin was protesting. It calls for the merger of 192 livestock farmers' cooperatives into the Korea Federation of Agricultural Cooperatives. The government pushed the merger to make the cooperatives more efficient. Shin's group opposed the restructuring, saying it will cost the group jobs. The bill still must pass the Assembly's plenary session this week to become law. Copyright 1999 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved Jane Sooby technical program coordinator Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-426-6606 831-426-6670 fax 831-460-9713 home www.ofrf.org jane@ofrf.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Aug 12 22:27:17 1999 -0400 Received: from mail.montana.com (mailB.montana.com [199.2.139.117]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA20540 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ism.net (mso-usr1-165.montana.com [208.4.227.165]) by mail.montana.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03887; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:04:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37B37B92.8B7D97BA@ism.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:57:40 -0600 From: Gene Bernofsky X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lcv@lcv.org" Subject: MINING KENYA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2207 The coastline of Kenya, from the port of Shimoni to the ancient village of Mambrui, is under severe environmental threat from irresponsible mining. The Kenyan coast is a stunning tropical paradise, with its 250 miles of palm-fringed beaches, blue lagoons and magnificent coral reef. Tourism, Kenya's largest industry, depends on its pristine beauty. More importantly, many endangered species-from the only bands of Colobus monkeys on the East African coast to Kenya's last remaining herds of Sable antelope-depend on the coastal area's fragile ecosystem, which is already stressed by the impacts of tourism. Tiomin Resources of Canada has secured permission from the Kenyan government to strip mine for titanium at five coastal sites, with virtually no public input or media exposure. The extracted ore will be shipped out of the country via Shimoni harbor, an important tourist destination for whale and dolphin viewing. Kenya has no guidelines, regulations, or protections governing mining and, with international investment flagging, its government has welcomed Tiomin's extensive mining project despite the threat it poses to the environment and indigenous people. The ancestral lands of the Digo people will be stripped of all vegetation during the mining process, as titanium rich sands are extracted at the rate of 1,500 tons per hour. These impoverished subsistence farmers have already begun to sign over the surface rights to Tiomin for paltry sums based on their land's current usage rather than the mineral wealth that lies below its surface. Following mining, the soil structure of their land will be lost, since revegetation of sands is difficult, extremely expensive and, in fact, has never been demonstrated to be feasible. Most Kenyans are unaware of Tiomin's plans to mine their beautiful coast for titanium, used primarily as a whitener for paint, foods, plastics, paper and cosmetics. However, Africa, Ncha ya Uvumbuzi (ANU), a newly formed grassroots group, plans to change that. Organized by Dr. Kamau Gachigi, a materials engineer, and Mr. James Gethenji, a farmer and businessman, ANU held its first meeting in May 1999, which was attended by over 200 concerned Kenyans. At the organizers' invitation, Tiomin's Vice President of Corporate Development, Matthew Edler, also attended. Mr. Edler confirmed Tiomin's plans to complete a feasibility study early in 2000, which is required to secure funding from the World Bank. Once this study is completed, Tiomin will be free to move forward quickly. It is therefore urgent that ANU receive immediate support to achieve its goal of publicizing Tiomin's plans, organizing a public response, and halting the almost certain destruction of Kenya's coast. ANU has sought the assistance of World Wide Film Expedition (WWFE) as part of its campaign. WWFE, a non-profit environmental media production group, has been producing award-winning videos for grassroots campaigns since 1983.  We produce and distribute proactive videos at no charge to the activists who use them to document and publicize environmental problems. These videos enhance organizing and publicity efforts, as activists work closely with our video production team to create the story they want to tell, then use the video to educate and organize others. Our videos have been central to numerous successful campaigns to halt potentially harmful mining practices. For example, we produced the first media piece about the Noranda gold mine that was proposed for the border of Yellowstone National Park. Undermining Yellowstone won two awards and propelled the public outcry which culminated in President Clinton's intervention to halt this mine. Our most recent video, the award-winning Trembling Waters, exposed DuPont's plans for a titanium mine on the boundary of the Okefenokee National Wildlife Refuge. DuPont has since halted its plans. We have produced videos for groups as diverse as Native American activists working to halt the expansion of a cyanide heap leach gold mine on the Ft. Belknap Reservation in Montana, organizing miners in Troy, Montana, and ranchers fighting a zinc and copper mine in Montana's Big Snowy Mountains. The video will advocate for the indigenous peoples of the Kenyan coast, the wildlife, and habitat of the region. Using original Kenyan music and dance, it will document the natural beauty of the area and highlight the proposed mines' impacts on tourism. Interviews will encompass a wide range of stakeholders including representatives of Tiomin Resources. The program will advocate for responsible mining and environmental guidelines. It is important for developing countries such as Kenya to avoid the resource exploitation habits of the West, especially given the current global economic context. This will happen only if we can overcome the profit-driven resource development of the past with public awareness, participation and leadership. Kenya presents a unique opportunity, given its government's stated aim of democratic reforms. There is an activist base in Kenya-both environmental and human rights-which, if informed and supported, could shape Kenya's environmental practices in a positive manner. This base, in conjunction with Kenya's eco-tourist operators and their clients, will serve as the target audience for the video we plan to produce. We intend to be on location in Kenya during February, 2000. We have contacted over 30 "progressive/environmental" Foundations to raise a $130,000 in grants for the project. We have had no success. The Foundations like the project but state that their guidelines and policies do not fund Africa. We are writing you to ask for any suggestions you can make as to where we may apply for funding. Please help if you can. Thank you, most kindly. Sincerely, Gene Bernofsky World Wide Film Expedition 243 Mount Avenue Missoula, Montana 59801 USA wwfe@ism.net www.ism.net/~wwfe/ 406.728.1341 From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 06:24:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA07431 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 06:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA19211 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:37:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19198 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03588 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 05:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from toshiba-markr ([208.141.36.107]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 188; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 04:40:08 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990813043802.0093e140@iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 04:38:02 -0500 To: Jane Sooby , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: Re: unique farmer protest In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990812173606.009597b0@mail.scruznet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2208 Not so unique. The head of the Korean young farmers union did the same at the GATT/WTO headquaters in Geneva during the Uruguay Round of talks At 05:37 PM 8/12/99 -0700, Jane Sooby wrote: >rip 'n' read off the AP wire: > >S. Korea Official Cut Self in Protest > SEOUL, South Korea--The head of a > livestock farmers' association tried to > kill himself during a Parliamentary hearing > Thursday to protest a government plan to > restructure his group. > Shin Koo-bum, head of the Korea > Federation of Livestock Farmers' > Cooperatives, slashed his abdomen with a > knife as lawmakers pondered a bill on the > restructuring, National Assembly officials said. > Shin was rushed to a hospital. The national > station KBS-TV reported that he was not > critically injured. > Despite the bloodshed, the assembly's > Agriculture and Fisheries Committee approved > the bill Shin was protesting. It calls for the > merger of 192 livestock farmers' cooperatives > into the Korea Federation of Agricultural > Cooperatives. > The government pushed the merger to > make the cooperatives more efficient. Shin's > group opposed the restructuring, saying it will > cost the group jobs. > The bill still must pass the Assembly's > plenary session this week to become law. > > Copyright 1999 Associated Press. All Rights > Reserved >Jane Sooby >technical program coordinator >Organic Farming Research Foundation >P.O. Box 440 >Santa Cruz, CA 95061 >831-426-6606 >831-426-6670 fax >831-460-9713 home >www.ofrf.org >jane@ofrf.org > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 08:05:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA07948 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19949 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:05:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19865 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from user-33qtiau.dialup.mindspring.com (user-33qtiau.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.201.94]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA27332; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by user-33qtiau.dialup.mindspring.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BEE541.4BFD9EE0@user-33qtiau.dialup.mindspring.com>; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 04:07:02 -0700 Message-ID: <01BEE541.4BFD9EE0@user-33qtiau.dialup.mindspring.com> From: Clem Clay and Deb Bix To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Evaluating Sustainability Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 04:06:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id HAA19877 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2209 Hi Folks, I'm looking for references on methods of evaluating the relative sustainability of individual farms. I am working with a California farmers' market that is seeking to define and increase its commitment to sustainability, and we will clearly need some sense of where we are, where we're going, and how to measure our progress. We would like to be able to roughly characterize the sustainability our particular group of farms, as well as any single farm in the group. The analysis would give a sense of how far along the spectrum from conventional to ideally sustainable a set of practices is, given the region and crop type and other on-farm conditions. Over time, it would give us a sense of the progress being made by individual farms and the market as a whole towards a more sustainable agriculture. We will not have the resources to collect, analyze, and verify vast quantities of information, so a truly comprehensive quantitative approach is not an option, in addition to having dubious merit. We can ask farmers to answer detailed survey-style questions about their farm practices and philosophies, and we can visit farms to verify data where necessary. I look forward to hearing from anyone who has created a similar assessment tool, or who knows of relevant resources or references. Thanks, Clem To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 10:10:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA10239 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23006 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:27:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA22955 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:26:59 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 862567CC.0049A128; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:24:13 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 862567CC.0049C797 ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:25:52 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <862567CC.0049C631.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:25:48 -0500 Subject: CRP - Efficiency Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2210 Please send replies to this request to the e-mail address below ....... Hello, I am a graduate student of Agriculture in Munich, Germany and am currently writing my thesis on the Conservation Reserve Program. The aim is an economic evaluation of the program, which consists largely of an analysis of the economic benefits for the farmer. I was therefor wondering if you knew of any studies that were ever done on the effect of the CRP on farm incomes. I would greatly appreciate your help and am looking forward to your reply. Inken Brehm [brehmink@gis.net] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 11:50:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA13700 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27533 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:06:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27515 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.14] (st-ppp24.hevanet.com [198.5.254.14]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03761; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908131506.IAA03761@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:09:08 -0700 Subject: FW: Simulated Gut Measures Iron Available From Food From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2211 ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Simulated Gut Measures Iron Available From Food Date: Fri, Aug 13, 1999, 7:30 AM STORY LEAD: Simulated Gut Measures Iron Available From Food ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Hank Becker, (301) 504-1624, hbecker@asrr.arsusda.gov August 13, 1999 ----------- An artificial gut invented by Agricultural Research Service scientists promises to accelerate knowledge about the amount of iron available from food and food supplements. The system is the first to model in the lab what occurs in the human intestinal tract. The research, led by ARS human physiologist Raymond P. Glahn, has already led to suggestions for improving the nutritional makeup of infant formula. The model should have broad applications for studying staples like rice, corn, wheat and beans; food supplements; pharmaceutical iron preparations, and baby foods such as formula, cereals and purees, according to Glahn. He's based at the agency's U.S. Plant, Soil and Nutrition Laboratory in Ithaca, N.Y. ARS is the chief research agency of USDA. Iron deficiency is the world's most prevalent nutrient deficiency. Even in developed countries, it remains a serious concern for women during pregnancy and childbearing years. Children, too, must receive proper iron nutrition. To help solve the problem, Glahn and colleagues have developed an in vitro model. It couples simulated food digestion with a human intestinal cell line, Caco-2. The model allows food digestion to occur simultaneously with opportunity for nutrient uptake by Caco-2 cells. So far, Glahn and co-workers have used the system to investigate iron availability of rice cereal, infant formulas and iron supplements. His model is a fast, inexpensive, easy method for determining the relative availability of iron from different foods or from different crop varieties of the same food. The research team continues to improve and expand the model, which may eventually be used to measure bioavailability of other micronutrients, such as vitamin A, zinc, selenium and iodine. Future studies will determine iron and zinc bioavailability in other micronutrient-enriched, staple food crops including corn, wheat and cassava. More details appear in a story in the August issue of Agricultural Research magazine and on the web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/aug99/iron0899.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Raymond P. Glahn, ARS U.S. Plant, Soil and Nutrition Laboratory, Ithaca, N.Y., phone (607) 255-2457, fax (607) 255-1132, rpg3@cornell.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From brateaver@earthlink.net Fri Aug 13 12:46:35 1999 Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA18220 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0320.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.183.65]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19781; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B28FC8.B48444CC@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:11:36 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2212 Yeah. me As you highly literate people all should know, there can not be any ice age approaching, because the Creator has said that, instead, he will destroy this whole system that man has built up, and restore Eden, where everyone will live forever, always young, healthy, strong and happyl Why do people like to think they know more than the Creator knows?????? Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Lon J. Rombough wrote: > > > Subject: FW: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought > > > > Despite soil-parching drought, green sweet-corn plants tower six feet above > > protective organic mulch in a cornfield in Beltsville, Md. Nearby, corn > > planted in bare soil won't be worth harvesting. > > That says it all, almost. > > > Key to sustaining the corn through the drought is hairy vetch, a legume > > grown as a cover crop. The vetch--killed before researchers planted the > > corn--forms a dense mat. It helps rain or irrigation water seep in rather > > than flow across fields and erode the soil. The mulch also slows evaporation > > and supplies natural nitrogen fertilizer. > > What about organic matter in the soil and slight crusting of the soil > forming a semi-impermeable barrier to evaporation _plus_ mulch, which > helps. It seems to me water holding capacity of the soil is > almost more important unless you have 1' or more of settled, aged > compost or mulch on the surface. > > I have volunteer pigweed and other interesting catch crops (not very > deep-rooted) growing vigorously with no mulch or supplemental watering in > a new raised bed containing much aged manure and compost. > There is a slight crust over the top of the bed; soil immediately > underneath (2-4") in nice and moist. > > <><><> > 1st fertilizer department > > Are we due for another ice age in the next 100-200 years? Anyone > have any ideas about this besides Bargyla :-) (<---note polite, respectful > smiley). Seriously though, I heard a ham radio operator talking about a > serious possibility of this in the near future and thought I'm bring > it up here as this would bear heavily on world food production. I guess > those not living on another planetary body might be living underground > eating cultivated microbes and reading by bioluminescence. > > <><><><> > 2nd fertilizer department > > I have somewhere in my shop an old burlap Peruvian GUANO bag (probably 50# > size) in good condition. If anyone would like this for a museum or other > collection of agricultural memorabilia let me know and I'll be glad to > donate it. > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 13:15:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA19089 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23312 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:36:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23270 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0320.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.183.65]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19471; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B28CC6.43EF5B25@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 01:58:46 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha CC: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Limberneck/avian botulism References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2213 I still won't any more put food scraps in a compost pile. It is fast, easy and safe to either put the scraps through a blender and just pour that liquid over soil, or dig a hole , put in the food scraps, and chop them into the soil in the hole, using a spade, then filling up the hole with soil. Simpler in the long run. Misha wrote: > Howdy, all-- > > Loren Muldowney's story about "limberneck" resulting from feeding > chickens on maggots is one I'd heard from a local knowledge > perspective out east, as well. My dad worked on some friends' pig > farms in Essington, PA, before and after his service in World War > Two. Most of those farms were diversified and also had poultry, and I > can remember him talking about this. He was a compassionate man, and > couldn't stand to see animals suffering. > > Loren--good question you raised--because you've challenged my > thinking that these maggots could be biocontrolled by birds in an > urban composter. See below. > > "Limberneck" is a condition caused by avian botulism. I posted here > recently about ponds as reservoirs of avian botulism. > > --U.S. Fish and Wildlife service info: > http://www.emtc.nbs.gov/http_data/nwhc/factshts/avian.html > > The authors are at the National Wildlife Health Laboratory, in Madison. > > "Avian Botulism affects the nervous system, causing muscle paralysis. > Depending on how far the disease has progressed, various levels of > paralysis will be > observed. An early sign in birds is the inability to fly. Once the > ability to fly is lost and leg muscles become paralyzed, ducks > suffering from botulism often propel > themselves across the water and mud flats with their wings. This > sequence of signs is in contrast to that of lead-poisoned birds, > which have difficulty flying but > remain able to walk and run. > > "Paralysis of the inner eyelid and neck muscles follows. These are > the two most easily recognizable signs associated with avian > botulism. The inability of the bird to hold its head erect is the > reason this disease is called "limberneck." Frequently, birds will > drown once they reach this stage in the disease. Those that do not > drown will eventually die from respiratory failure as paralysis > spreads. > > "Favorable environmental conditions occur in the tissues of decaying > animal and insect carcasses. The decomposition process uses up all > available oxygen in the > carcass, creating anaerobic conditions. Bacterial spores ingested > during the life of the animal germinate after death. As the bacteria > multiply and die, the toxin is > released. > > "The cycle of avian botulism > > "Outbreaks of avian botulism occur when the toxin is taken in by > birds. The die-off may begin as birds feed directly on invertebrate > carcasses that contain the toxin, or as a result of feeding on live > maggots of flesh-flies and blowflies. Flies lay their eggs on dead > vertebrates, and the resulting maggots store botulinal toxin in their > bodies as they consume the carcass. More than 5,000 maggots can be > produced by a single bird carcass; consumption of just two to five > toxin-bearing maggots is > often enough to kill a duck!" > > Note that the difference between this and Kate's situation is that > the source of the botulinal toxin is dead vertebrates and > invertebrates. Kate is decomposing/composting vegetables. Which is > what I was thinking when I suggested laying the heap open to the air > for city birds to pick at. > > However, from > > --Texas A&M > http://gallus.tamu.edu/Diseases/PDSec5.htm#BOTULISM > > comes this: > > "Botulism is a disease caused by the ingestion of a toxin produced by > the anerobic bacterium Clostridium botulinum. All domestic fowl and > most wild birds are susceptible. An interesting exception is the > vulture, which is apparently immune and feeds on decaying carcasses. > Many human deaths have been attributed to their consuming food or > water containing the toxin. > > "Cause: Botulism is not a bacterial infection, but a condition > produced by ingestion of a toxin produced by the bacterium Cl. > botulinum. The organism is > common in nature and is widely dispersed in soils. Ingestion of the > organism is not harmful. It becomes dangerous only when conditions > are favorable for the > growth and multiplication of the bacteria and its subsequent toxin > production. The organism grows best under high humidity and > relatively high temperature and > in an environment containing decaying organic material. Acid > conditions are detrimental. Stagnant pools or damp areas containing > decaying matter with an > alkaline reaction are a danger area. Botulism may result from > consumption of any decaying animal or vegetable. Decaying carcasses > are a frequent source of > toxin, and fly maggots feeding on such tissue may contain enough > toxin to cause the disease when ingested. The toxin is water soluble; > consequently, water > sources may become contaminated. > > "The toxin is one of the most potent, being about 17 times as deadly > as cobra venom for the guinea pig. The toxin is relatively heat > stable but may be destroyed by boiling. There are different types of > the toxin. Types A and C usually are responsible for the disease in > birds, while type B most frequently affects man." > > > So this indicates that maggots in partly-finished compost *could* be > a problem for birds, under certain circumstances? > > There is some good informationon avian botulism/limberneck at: > > --Environment Canada > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/ab_1.html > > See especially, > > --"Methods of tranfer" for info on maggots: > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/ab_4.html > > That site also has an EXTENSIVE annotated bibliography on avian botulism > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/ab_7.html > > See especially: > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab24.html > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab2.html > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab175.html > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab65.html > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab262.html > > This one intrigued me: it lists a bunch of antibiotics that people > can feed chickens to control botulism; this refers back to the > ongoing SANET discussion of antibiotics in the food chain, and the > notion of drugging animals to overcome pathogens caused by systemic > imbalances: > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab292.html > > > One last resource: > > --Skipio's (breeder of insects for kept birds and reptiles) > http://www.skipio.com/birds.htm > > "Insects are a natural nutrition source for all birds at some point > in their development except for some who obtain their animal protein > from fish, mammals, reptiles or amphibians. Live mealworms and > crickets, originally marketed as fish bait, have long been available > for feeding birds and other animals. These insects were grown on > vegetable diets. Some bird breeders to their dismay tried feeding > their birds maggots that were grown on offal or wastes from the local > butcher shop. The maggots were suitable for fish bait but could carry > claustridium botulinum that resulted in fatal limberneck disease. A > mistaken idea associated with those larvae was that they could be > cleansed with corn meal. That was not true. Only insects that have > been grown on vegetable diets should be fed to birds!" > > Sooooo. Not sure where that leaves us. My guess would be that if the > conditions in the heap weren't too alkaline, and what went into it > was clean (not rotted) food, the chance of botulin toxin accumulating > in the maggots would be relatively low. > > Comment, anyone? > > Hope this is of use to you-all with poultry, as well. I've seen > chickens go after maggoty produce, either gleaning in the garden, or > something left too long in the scrap bucket (which is also risking > Salmonellosis). > > Finally, Loren, you asked about feeding maggots to fish. > > Here's a nice little site that looks like a student one, very well referenced: > http://iaith.simplenet.com/botulism/botubird.html > > The student was apparently in a course on Microbial Disease and Human > Society. The above URL has an item about botulism in fish, and > footnotes. > > Also: > http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/ENGLISH/LIFE/MIGBIRDS/AVIANB/References/ab50.html > > Now that we've had this discussion, watch for Dennis Avery to show up > claiming that composting causes botulism. > > :^) > > (not sure why I'm smiling) > > peace > misha > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michele Gale-Sinex > Communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > http://www.wisc.edu > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is > safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 13:19:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA19177 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:19:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23432 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:36:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23372 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0320.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.183.65]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19781; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B28FC8.B48444CC@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:11:36 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FW: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2214 Yeah. me As you highly literate people all should know, there can not be any ice age approaching, because the Creator has said that, instead, he will destroy this whole system that man has built up, and restore Eden, where everyone will live forever, always young, healthy, strong and happyl Why do people like to think they know more than the Creator knows?????? Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Lon J. Rombough wrote: > > > Subject: FW: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought > > > > Despite soil-parching drought, green sweet-corn plants tower six feet above > > protective organic mulch in a cornfield in Beltsville, Md. Nearby, corn > > planted in bare soil won't be worth harvesting. > > That says it all, almost. > > > Key to sustaining the corn through the drought is hairy vetch, a legume > > grown as a cover crop. The vetch--killed before researchers planted the > > corn--forms a dense mat. It helps rain or irrigation water seep in rather > > than flow across fields and erode the soil. The mulch also slows evaporation > > and supplies natural nitrogen fertilizer. > > What about organic matter in the soil and slight crusting of the soil > forming a semi-impermeable barrier to evaporation _plus_ mulch, which > helps. It seems to me water holding capacity of the soil is > almost more important unless you have 1' or more of settled, aged > compost or mulch on the surface. > > I have volunteer pigweed and other interesting catch crops (not very > deep-rooted) growing vigorously with no mulch or supplemental watering in > a new raised bed containing much aged manure and compost. > There is a slight crust over the top of the bed; soil immediately > underneath (2-4") in nice and moist. > > <><><> > 1st fertilizer department > > Are we due for another ice age in the next 100-200 years? Anyone > have any ideas about this besides Bargyla :-) (<---note polite, respectful > smiley). Seriously though, I heard a ham radio operator talking about a > serious possibility of this in the near future and thought I'm bring > it up here as this would bear heavily on world food production. I guess > those not living on another planetary body might be living underground > eating cultivated microbes and reading by bioluminescence. > > <><><><> > 2nd fertilizer department > > I have somewhere in my shop an old burlap Peruvian GUANO bag (probably 50# > size) in good condition. If anyone would like this for a museum or other > collection of agricultural memorabilia let me know and I'll be glad to > donate it. > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 13:31:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA19391 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23730 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:37:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23699 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0320.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.183.65]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21034; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B29F6B.D8294A02@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 03:18:19 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary Gold , "'Misha'" , SANET-mg , Susan Chapman , Andy Clark , Abiola Adeyemi , Jane Gates Subject: Re: Old ag publications and the cost of memory References: <37B0E08A.7CA47C1A@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2215 Oh, yes, I forgot to mention, everyone on that list of superduper organic people, is MALE. Not one woman. Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > It was a good idea of yours to list so many good sources, esp since most people > would never think of looking there. > Incidentally, I got a big kick out of noting, when all those famous people > were being taped, that it never even occurred to them, to include me, or it did > occur and was vetoed, in spite of the fact that I started the organic movement > in Calif, most certainly made more noise about organics than anybody else > around, except Robert Rodale. > I got a real bang out of reading something somewhere, years ago, complaining > about "Rateaver and Rodale"--imagine my being classed with such a big name--oh, > oh. > > Mary Gold wrote: > > > Michele, > > > > Thanks for the focus on "loss of cultural memory", and the encouragement to > > us here at the National Ag. Library! I have appreciated the whole sanet-mg > > exchange on old ag publications. As an ag librarian and a history major, I > > am doubly aware of the treasures that lie on the shelves above my office, > > and the "community of knowledge" (I like that term) that they represent. > > Each time I venture into the stacks I am amazed at what I find. There > > doesn't seem to be any aspect of food and fiber production that hasn't been > > addressed before. (In fact, I have come to believe that if I can't find > > something there it's because I haven't looked hard enough... just need more > > hours in the day.) I have stopped being surprised by the depth of > > information (some of it decades old) on every "new" concept that I am > > researching. I too, lament the waning of attention paid to these resources. > > > > The National Agricultural Library Reference staff and the Alternative > > Farming Systems Information Center have worked to make some of the wonderful > > information here more accessible to the public. Resources permitting (I > > also like the large check with many zeros image!), we will continue the > > effort. Some of the work done here includes: > > > > GUIDE TO HISTORICAL RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL AGRICULTURAL LIBRARY: THE > > GENERAL COLLECTION (Special Reference Briefs: SRB 94-02), by Susan Chapman, > > Reference and User Services Branch [This publication is designed as an > > entree to historical research at the National Agricultural Library, not as a > > comprehensive bibliography. Only a small number of the thousands of books > > and articles of historical interest have been included. Although the > > collection is worldwide in scope, containing material in some 75 languages, > > emphasis is on American agriculture and on English language publications. > > > > The Guide is divided into two sections: the General Collection, and > > Additional Resources. In addition to works dealing exclusively with > > agriculture, a limited number of selected materials in general history, the > > history of science, medicine, and technology, and general biography have > > been included. An update is in process.] > > http://www.nal.usda.gov/ref/history.htm > > > > The NAL Reference Staff have also put together indexes to the following USDA > > series: > > [none are available on the website yet; however, very limited supplies of > > hardcopy versions are available on request. Reference and AFSIC staff can > > also search for specific topics and titles in these series on request.] > > > > Index to USDA Miscellaneous Publications, Numbers 1-1479, compiled by Ellen > > Kay Miller. NAL, 1992. 109 p. NAL call no.: aS21.A99 1992 [Misc. > > Publications began publication in 1927] > > > > Index to USDA Technical Bulletins, Numbers 1-1802, compiled by Ellen Kay > > Miller. NAL, 1993. 120 p. NAL call no.: aZ5073.I52 1993 [Technical Bulletins > > began publication in 1927] > > > > USDA Agriculture Handbooks: Numbers 1-690, compiled by Ellen Kay Miller. > > NAL, 1992. 55 p. NAL call no.: S501.2 [Handbooks began publication in 1950] > > > > Index to USDA Agricultural Information Bulletins, Numbers 1-649, compiled by > > Ellen Kay Miller. NAL, 1992. NAL call no.: aS21.A74M54 1992 [Ag. Info. > > Bulletins began publication in 1949] > > > > NAL, along with a consortium of other agricultural libraries, has also been > > active in several Preservation projects (digital and microfilm) of historic > > materials. > > http://www.nal.usda.gov/preservation/ > > > > Finally, NAL does accept donations of older books and journals, video tapes, > > etc. For their policies see: Gift and Exchange Program > > http://www.nal.usda.gov/acq/gift_and_exchange.html > > > > AFSIC Resources: > > > > Tracing the Evolution of Organic/Sustainable Agriculture: A Selected and > > Annotated Bibliography, compiled by Jane Potter Gates. Bibliographies and > > Literature of Agriculture (BLA) no. 72. NAL, November 1988. > > http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/AFSIC_pubs/tracing.htm > > > > During the late 80s and early 90s, Jane Gates worked on a series of "oral > > histories", videotaped interviews with "people who have provided leadership > > and inspiration in the field of alternative or sustainable agriculture." > > Interviewees include Wes Jackson, Fred Kirschenmann, William Lockeretz, > > Patrick Madden, James Duke, Robert Rodale, Paul O'Connell, Dick Thompson, > > Jayne MacLean, Charles Francis, and Garth Youngberg. The tapes are > > available through Interlibrary Loan, or can be viewed here at NAL. > > > > AFSIC recently published Vegetables and Fruits: A Guide to Heirloom > > Varieties and Community-Based Stewardship, by Suzanne DeMuth. NAL, September > > 1998. (3 Volumes.) It is a wonderful resource on historic American > > vegetable and fruit varieties. Volume 3 addresses older publications in > > particular related to varieties. All three volumes (Volume 1. Annotated > > Bibliography; Volume 2. Resource Organizations; Volume 3. Historical > > Supplement) are available in hardcopy from our office or can be read via our > > website: http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/AFSIC_pubs/heirloom/heirloom.htm > > > > Although I am an enthusiastic advocate of making this knowledge > > electronically available, there is something special about leafing through > > the old volumes of planting guides, market plans, and field studies. Here > > at the Library, I can actually do that. Most of the documents indexed in > > the above publications can be requested, leafed through, read, and > > photocopied in the NAL Reference area. The National Agricultural Library is > > open to the public every weekday, 8 to 4:30. Within the US, the materials > > can also be requested through Interlibrary Loan. > > > > Thanks from Abiola, Andy, Jane and me for your message, Michelle. And > > thanks for giving me the chance to pass along information about the candle > > burners here at the Library and AFSIC. > > > > Sincerely, > > Mary > > > > Mary V. Gold > > Alternative Farming Systems Information Center > > National Agricultural Library, ARS, USDA > > 10301 Baltimore Ave., Room 304 > > Beltsville MD 20705-2351 > > phone: 301-504-6559 > > fax: 301-504-6409 > > e-mail: mgold@nal.usda.gov > > http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Misha [mailto:mgs23@pacbell.net] > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:43 AM > > To: SANET-mg > > Subject: Old ag publications and the cost of memory > > > > Howdy, all-- > > > > An interesting issue that Larry London seeded here re: the value of > > older ag publications, many of which, because they predate chemical > > intensive methods, contain rich humus for us sustaggies...and anyone > > concerned with agricultural practices invented sometime prior to last > > year by Corporation X in "university-industry partnership" with Land > > Grant Z. > > > > A few thoughts. > > > > 1) Many land grant college of ag libraries have large holdings of > > these old publications; some are being decatalogued and disposed of > > at a frightening rate. When I was at UW-Madison, ag library staff > > were pressured to make room for new publications, and that often > > means that older ones go to Cutter collections...or the dumpster or > > book sales. > > > > But at Madison's ag library--Steenbock--there were a number of folks > > with the good sense to know what riches these publications contained, > > and to foresee a day when people might once again care about what's > > in them. There were several folks engaged in trying to raise money to > > get these crumbling old ag publications into electronic format, so > > their contents would be preserved in that medium. If I remember > > correctly, there was a multi-land-grant initiative on this--and my > > notes on this are back in Madison. I'm cc'ing this note to Gretchen > > Farwell, the assistant director of Steenbock and a long-time advocate > > of sustainable ag information systems. If she replies, I'll post any > > helpful info to the group, or she can. Gretchen, thanks in advance. > > > > 2) The loss of cultural memory in agriculture, to my view, is no less > > important than the loss of, say, a language. I always think of the > > National Yiddish Book Center, founded out of the efforts of one man, > > Aaron Lansky, who while a student of Yiddish literature in Montreal > > realized that countless books in Yiddish were being discarded. These > > books--the property and cultural memory of people who had survived > > the /pogroms/ of eastern Europe, the Holocaust, and Stalin's > > "reforms"--were sometimes discarded by the children or grandchildren > > of those people, either because they couldn't read them, or didn't > > see the value in them. Lansky made it his life's work to collect > > these books, and he recruited other young people to do this also. In > > 1980 he founded the NYBC (a loft in a building in New York, I seem to > > remember), and it grew from this early collection of cast-off books > > to a cultural center in Amherst, MA, with holdings of 1.4 million > > books in a language that has been revitalized, largely thanks to his > > efforts. (In 1980, Yiddish experts believed that there were perhaps > > 70,000 extant books in the language worldwide; they were off by some > > orders of magnitude.) The NYBC has also built Yiddish book > > collections at scholarly libraries all over the world, as it has come > > across duplicate editions of books. Thus the written cultural memory > > of a people in diaspora has been preserved, and allowed to find its > > way back into living memory. > > > > Who is doing this for old ag publications? Who is going to farm > > auctions to look for old treatises on husbandry, mechanicking, > > breeding, etc.? How often does it happen that an elder ag agent > > passes away, or surviving widow/er does, and a lifetime collection of > > books and periodicals is lost? Or a rural library closes, ditto? > > Where are the regional or state or private holdings of these > > materials, and who is talking to their collectors? Who is developing > > annotated bibliographies of the catalogued and uncatalogued materials? > > > > The luminous and wonderful Walworth Co., WI, ag agent Lee Cunningham > > and I have had this discussion several times over the course of the > > past 5 or 6 years. He makes it part of his calling to give a home to > > old ag publications that he finds, or that people offer him. He said > > that people come to him because they try to donate books to their > > local libraries and are told that the libraries don't have the > > resources of shelf space or cataloguing labor to bring the books into > > their collections. > > > > Of course preference for those resources goes to Danielle Steel or > > Tom Clancy best sellers, since libraries now must justify their > > existence by stocking what the customers want. And libraries no > > longer collect books to preserve them. They are subject to vast > > economies of preference, taste, revenues, and technological capacity. > > In other words, demand means shelf space--in libraries, as in > > supermarkets. > > > > So I ask again--who is doing this for pre-high-chemical/high-tech ag > > books? Who in sustainable agriculture should assess and speak on > > behalf of this loss of cultural memory? I know that the National > > Agricultural Library does what it can--but when's the last time those > > folks had the resources to publicize NAL's holdings of those > > materials, or make them available in more easily replicable media, or > > develop user's guides or navigational guides to what's out there? > > > > I have serious concerns that most of sustainable ag's resources--both > > at the national and regional level--are being targeted at the > > production of new information via research funding. And that very > > little, if any, is being targeted at the creation of KNOWLEDGE > > COMMUNITIES or that preserve that information, and put it into > > context--a context that includes not only the new findings, but the > > older ones as well. Or KNOWLEDGE NAVIGATION TOOLS that allow people > > to access this information. > > > > Efforts to do this have struggled uphill like a VW Beetle in the > > Rocky Mts., running with a hot # 3 cylinder and worn-down points. > > Look at the struggles that the Alternative Farming Systems > > Information Center at NAL faces--AFSIC's staff for years now have > > tried to fill some of this role, doing carefully honed Agricola > > searches of NAL holdings to help us seekers of information know > > what's available. A service like that, Dan Glickman should be handing > > them big foamcore-mounted checks at press conferences, saying thank > > you with numbers with many zeroes behind it. > > > > 3) Finally, I've said this before (Cramer, you can plug your ears, > > because you've heard this rant more than a couple dozen times :^) but > > the consolidation of the publishing and telecommunications industry, > > coupled with the privatization of Extension, promises DISASTER for > > sustainable ag and the cultural memory we are trying to build with > > current sustag information products. If public institutions don't > > take up this slack, then sustainable ag information and > > communications will inevitably go to the highest private or corporate > > bidder. Wanna start making some guesses as to who that could be? > > > > Our information products are highly unlikely to able to either > > maintain market share *or* exist on a cost-recovery basis. Unless, of > > course, sustainable ag is recast as something to sell to the masses > > (mainstream farmers) and the cutting-edge nature of it is > > blunted...or forgotten.. > > > > Robert Rodale knew this--he was happy to publish /The New Farm/ and > > let other publications pay for it. I've heard him blasted as a poor > > businessman, but he certainly knew how to build an effective > > knowledge network. > > > > We in sustag have limited ability, in a fragmented way, to create > > information products within our various organizations...but then > > these products are so dispersed, and the organizations so poorly > > networked, that I see us as the equivalent of mediaeval monastic > > libraries in the Dark Ages. A bunch of people scattered across the > > world, trying to keep our respective little candles burning in a > > howling cultural/economic wind. The Internet has been one of the only > > ways we've had to talk to each other, and many of us here on SANET > > got here in the good old days, when universal access was still a > > principle of Internetworking. (AOL kissed that good bye, for > > everyone, in a big way by equating access with how much money they > > could make getting as many people as possible "on the Net" to look > > for--never mind.) > > > > The physics of publishing are increasingly moving in the same > > direction as everything else in the economy: cheap, mass scale > > products or costly, luxury ones. Finding publishers who will produce > > and then market a book (never mind a pamphlet or CD or video) with a > > limited-at-best readership grows ever more difficult. Niche > > publishers struggle along till their well-intentioned people burn out > > under the heat of their own efforts. > > > > This is why ATTRA is such an EXPONENTIALLY IMPORTANT INITIATIVE. > > Their library of sustainable-farmer-oriented literature could prove > > to be one of the most critical cultural resources in the nation > > someday. Not to mention the perfect information and knowledge > > complement to NAL's holdings of scholarly literature. > > > > This is why the Sustainable Farming Connection Web site was such a > > BRILLIANT IDEA (though it never got the resource support it needed to > > get it truly off the ground and sustain it as it deserves). > > > > Enough for now. Larry, thanks for seeding the topic. I wish we could > > all mosey across the street to The Sand Bar, the little neighborhood > > pub that advertises itself as "on the edge of Western civilization," > > and put our feet up, and talk about this stuff till the wee hours. > > > > Lacking the luxury of realtime conversation amongst us all...gods, > > I'm grateful for this Internet group. Thanks Andy, Abioli, Jane, and > > USDA/NAL. We often neglect to bow in your direction. > > > > And thanks, all, for listening. > > > > Writing from lands end, I wish you all > > > > peace > > misha > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Michele Gale-Sinex > > Communications manager > > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > > http://www.wisc.edu > > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > We're not against ideas. We're against people spreading them. > > --Augusto Pinochet > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 14:36:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA21726 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17884 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:59:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17878 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool0298.cvx2-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.135.43]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id Q5AXXH7W; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:56:18 -0400 Message-ID: <37B460A1.57E9BCC0@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:14:58 -0700 From: Phil Gillman Organization: Southland Farmers' Market Association-- www.cafarmersmarkets.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: ice age References: <199908131637.MAA23787@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2216 Another ice age is indeed very possible, as one of the most likely scenarios to result from global warming is the disruption of the North Atlantic Sink, the area off of Greenland where glacial runoff sinks into the deep, rather than remaining on the surface. Unfortunately, if the volume of this fresh water becomes too great, then the sink is disrupted. (So what's the big deal?) well, if the sink is disrupted, the surface currents are then inturn disrupted, and the surface current most likely to be effected is the Gulf Stream. The failure of the sink would most likely stop the flow of the gulf stream, and almost immediately plung europe into an ice age, which would in turn effect global weather systems drastically. This Appears to have happened in the past, often occuring suddenly, over the course of only 2 to 5 years altering global weather patterns. Many scientists are begining to see this as the most likely outcome of continued global warming (a sort of ecological rebalancing perhaps ;-) SO, grow organic, and rotate in grazing animals- for that seems to be the best way to survive a drought, AND reduce global warming at the same time- Phil Gillman Sustainable Systems Consulting and Marketing philmang@hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 17:14:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA29195 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25853 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:32:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25697 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id TAA01491; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:57:28 GMT Message-ID: <37B47878.99D43492@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:56:40 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Paulownia trees Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2217 After having been introduced in this country many years ago as an ornamental, it was found that Japan represented a great market for paulownia. They use the wood for many items including small boxes and traditional wedding gifts and furniture. In the early 80's there was a boom in demand and the trees started being cut by the hundreds of thousands, even to the point that old ornamentals were being harvested by homeowners, or stolen from them. The boom market eventually crashed for awhile and the "paulownia fever" abated some. However, there is still a strong market for the trees and they actually exceed $$ value for veneer grade red oak, white oak, and walnut per mbf. I am a little concerned about the desire to rush the growth of these trees. I seem to remember hearing that the faster the tree grew the lower the value. Just FYI. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 18:35:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA00590 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20578 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:54:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20561 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10742 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:39:39 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: The books Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2218 Howdy, all-- My apologies for taking just over three weeks to get back to you all about this, but I have found a home for the extra (duplicate) books in my personal library. I posted an item about that on Moonday, 7/20. I wanted to give it a week or so (instead of the original 48 hours) to give a shot at them to folks who don't check their e-mail every day. Then the past two weeks have been a bit goofy. I have stories for you about some of the communications adventures I've had in this transition...because they relate (well, in my mind anyway) to sustainable ag and this larger question of building sustag information systems and networks. I wish I had multiple sets of these books to give to everyone who asked. Thank you to all of you who expressed interest. I'm glad we're all here, so that such resource-sharing can happen. Otherwise these books would have gone to Aardvark used books on Church St., and may or may not have ever found their way to folks who'd actually use them. peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 20:39:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA02497 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09406 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:58:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09372 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d10-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.10]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA06790; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:57:56 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Phil Gillman" , Subject: RE: ice age Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:02:45 +1000 Message-ID: <000201bee5e8$56069d40$0a3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37B460A1.57E9BCC0@cafarmersmarkets.org> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2219 And as the North Atlantic Sink rises to the surface again in the southern ocean, somewhere southwest of Australia (contributing to the massive amount of life in deep Antarctic waters), I have always presumed that the whole Southern Oscillation is directly connected to the North Atlantic Sink. The SO comes about because as the globe rotates the water tries not to rotate, and South America sticks its long finger in and the water goes up and around the south Pacific, in a circle subject to oscillation. There is then an actual gradient of water level, perceptible by satellite, back across the central Pacific, the water turned north by South America pushing back east with varying pressure. There is an associated variation in air pressure. When that westward air push is weak, you have the El Nino circumstance (El Nino, the Christ child, arising from the Peruvian expectation of this thing producing devastating rain at Christmas; how odd that we now have the invention of 'La Nina' for the opposite effect) Down here El Nino means monsoonal weather tears east, rather than southeast, out of Indonesia, causing devastation in Pacific Island states, and drought, instead of summer rain, in Australia. El Nino also impacts on the Northern Pacific, as American readers know. How El Nino then feeds back across north America and into the Atlantic circumstance again, I leave to northern hemisphere speculation. But while I believe we must try to be less wasteful of resources, I tend to the view that vulcanism has the major effect on big climate trends. As I also tend to the view that a slight increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide may benefit cellular health. Otherwise, I agree with Phil, though we still have to solve the ozone-weakening effect of those grazing ruminant producers of methane. Each chicken, not cow? I'd like to see John Wayne movies redone with chooks not cows.... Imagine the impact on the macho... the long long chook drive to Kansas, sitting round the campfire at night re-writing the state biology curriculum, arguing whether the world is round, or whether it's just a long henpecking route north... Pecos Bill astride a sturdy turkey... It's the mythologies we have to redraw. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Phil Gillman Sent: Saturday, August 14, 1999 4:15 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: ice age Another ice age is indeed very possible, as one of the most likely scenarios to result from global warming is the disruption of the North Atlantic Sink, the area off of Greenland where glacial runoff sinks into the deep, rather than remaining on the surface. Unfortunately, if the volume of this fresh water becomes too great, then the sink is disrupted. (So what's the big deal?) well, if the sink is disrupted, the surface currents are then inturn disrupted, and the surface current most likely to be effected is the Gulf Stream. The failure of the sink would most likely stop the flow of the gulf stream, and almost immediately plung europe into an ice age, which would in turn effect global weather systems drastically. This Appears to have happened in the past, often occuring suddenly, over the course of only 2 to 5 years altering global weather patterns. Many scientists are begining to see this as the most likely outcome of continued global warming (a sort of ecological rebalancing perhaps ;-) SO, grow organic, and rotate in grazing animals- for that seems to be the best way to survive a drought, AND reduce global warming at the same time- Phil Gillman Sustainable Systems Consulting and Marketing philmang@hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 21:10:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA02814 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01928 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:34:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sandy.surfsouth.com (IDENT:root@sandy.surfsouth.com [205.139.60.110]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01895 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from surfsouth.com (02-ocil-018.dial.optilinkcomm.net [216.128.152.150]) by sandy.surfsouth.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18310; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:34:13 -0400 Message-ID: <37B4BAAA.C1EC84F2@surfsouth.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:39:06 -0400 From: David Drexler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mike richardson CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Paulownia trees References: <37B47878.99D43492@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2220 Greetings Mike Nice post about Paulownia. Accurate and brief. I would like to add some facts that I have researched and learned from experience about these trees. Wood workers tell me fast grown "works and mills" as good as slow grown The wood is easily air dried. Can be kiln dried extremely fast with out damage. Does not wrap, crack, or split. Is extremely dimensionally stable with changes in humidity. Is fire resistant and is a very good insulator of heat and electricity Is rot resistant. ( I have run no test on this but by observation it looks equal to above ground cca treatment.) While being extremely light it does have an excellent strength to weight ratio. The market for this wood will rapidly develop in the US once a supply is available. The market to the orient is a myth. China has 5 million acre now and can ship to the orient a lot cheaper than from the US. By some estimates there are 50 to 100,000 acres growing in US plantations now. Most under 5 years of age. I have no doubt that "when the wood is available they will come." This is different than exotics of past particular in the processing. The lumber industry and mills already exist. Besides a small bandsaw operator can saw and dry this lumber. Of course a large mill could devour the whole 100,000 acres in a winter. Look again at the above qualities and the uses are many. Moldings, Picture frames, boat framing (already being done), veneers, furniture making, outdoor decks without chemicals!!! Hey the Chinese even make shoes of them. I am a grower and consultant and will be offering the trees for sale next spring. Hope the group doesn't mind a little plug. Thanks David D. mike richardson wrote: > After having been introduced in this country many years ago as an > ornamental, it was found that Japan represented a great market for > paulownia. They use the wood for many items including small boxes and > traditional wedding gifts and furniture. In the early 80's there was a > boom in demand and the trees started being cut by the hundreds of > thousands, even to the point that old ornamentals were being harvested > by homeowners, or stolen from them. The boom market eventually crashed > for awhile and the "paulownia fever" abated some. However, there is > still a strong market for the trees and they actually exceed $$ value > for veneer grade red oak, white oak, and walnut per mbf. I am a little > concerned about the desire to rush the growth of these trees. I seem to > remember hearing that the faster the tree grew the lower the value. > Just FYI. > > Son of Richard > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 21:29:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA03064 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:47:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10804 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.178] (st-ppp04.hevanet.com [198.5.254.178]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01266; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908140046.RAA01266@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:49:07 -0700 Subject: FW: So Far, This Corn Defies the Drought From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2221 List Members: I have been forwarding ARS news releases to these lists strictly for the interests of the members. Once again someone hasn't bothered to read the headers and disclaimers to know that I am NOT the author, but have just been passing along items I thought the members might want to see. The reply below is one that was sent to me, personally. What makes it particularly annoying is that the e-mail address suggests it was from someone connected with the ARS (the address was <------@asrr.arsusda.gov> ) If you want to debate these things, there are addresses at the bottom of the releases for people you can contact, or you can debate each other through the list. Or you can subscribe to the ARS news service - it's free, and the address is on the bottom of the news releases. I recommend you do so as I'm getting tired of putting up with morons like this and am likely not going to forward many more releases. ------------------------------- I think you should clarify this story before it gets out of hand. The "Key to sustaining the corn through the drought is hairy vetch". Not true, it's the irrigation that is making the difference. If it wasn't for the irrigation the corn would be waist high and dead. And for "all the corn needed for the livestock planted into hairy vetch" it's all waist high and dead. I have corn planted into hairy vetch and crimsn clover and it's even worse. As for the 7,000 acre BARC, most of the 7,000 acres is woods, wetlands, plot research area and building complex. There may be 500 acres of vetch corn. The University of Maryland farms the a large portion of the actual farm and they don't use vetch. This story if very misleading and may come back to haunt you and ARS. I thought you should know the real story! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 22:13:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA03662 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26199 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:15:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from email1-1 (email.mcleod.net [208.16.32.20]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26179 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 46376 invoked from network); 14 Aug 1999 01:07:19 -0000 Received: from 319-a-42-114.ppp.mcleodusa.net (HELO 207-A-36-38.ppp.mcleodusa.net) (208.16.42.114) by email.mcleod.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 1999 01:07:19 -0000 Received: by 207-A-36-38.ppp.mcleodusa.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BEE5C8.905EBBA0@207-A-36-38.ppp.mcleodusa.net>; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:15:19 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEE5C8.905EBBA0@207-A-36-38.ppp.mcleodusa.net> From: Reap International To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1221 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:15:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEE5C8.9078AC40" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2222 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE5C8.9078AC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Radio Show Announcement The First International Green Walk at Lake Baikal, sponsored by REAP = International and our Russian partners "Aura" and "FIRN" will be = spotlighted on Friday August 20 on the nationally syndicated "The = Environment Show" hosted by Peter Berle. The program airs in over 250 = markets around the country, principally on NPR-affiliated stations. The interview with Bill Mueller of REAP will focus on the lessons = learned by Walk participants in their interactions with local people, = notably the dilemma between economic survival and environmental = protection. The program will explore the deterioration of quality of = life for Buryat people today as they use up the resources of their = beloved lake region in their efforts to survive. Interested people can also contact REAP for a copy of the "Declaration" = which was produced as a result of the Green Walk. Our latest newsletter highlights the Walk and is available on request. =20 Finally, for a limited time, persons can obtain a VHS cassette which has = a 17-minute, 5-part news series by Cedar Rapids (Iowa) news anchor Bruce = Aune. These cassettes cost $10, including shipping. REAP International 1427 4th Street SW Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52404 (319) 366-4230; FAX: 366-2209 E-Mail: REAP@reapintl.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE5C8.9078AC40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhMBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUAU01UUABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUA AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUA AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3NhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5uY3N1LmVkdScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpTQU5FVC1NR0BDRVMuTkNTVS5FRFUAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADYDUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHQAA AFJFOiBzYW5ldC1tZy1kaWdlc3QgVjEgIzEyMjEAaggBBYADAA4AAADPBwgADQAUAA8ACgAFAB0B ASCAAwAOAAAAzwcIAA0AFAAPAAYABQAZAQEJgAEAIQAAADlDMjVDOEZDNjg1MUQzMTFBMTIxNDQ0 NTUzNTQwMDAwAMsGAQOQBgDwBQAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAA QAA5AMA9InTy5b4BHgBwAAEAAAAdAAAAUkU6IHNhbmV0LW1nLWRpZ2VzdCBWMSAjMTIyMQAAAAAC AXEAAQAAABYAAAABvuXydCL8yCWdUWgR06EhREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4A HwwBAAAAEgAAAHJlYXBAcmVhcGludGwuY29tAAAAAwAGELp/yscDAAcQHAQAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAA AFJBRElPU0hPV0FOTk9VTkNFTUVOVFRIRUZJUlNUSU5URVJOQVRJT05BTEdSRUVOV0FMS0FUTEFL RUJBSUtBTCxTUE9OU09SRURCWVJFQVBJTlRFUk5BVElPTkFMQU5ET1VSUlUAAAAAAgEJEAEAAABu BAAAagQAAJoGAABMWkZ1EA+dM/8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPF AgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMz9wLkBxMCgzQDRRM1B20Cg3Y1EswUxX0KgAjPCdk78RnPMjU1AoAKgQ2x C2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKF5JDAdAH8GFkaW8GAGgibwfgQW5uCGBuYxsT4AnwdAqFCoVUaGXYIEZpEaAF QEkCMASRXGF0HqAhsAMgRwnSIBJXB0BrICHAIExhKmsg4EILcGsHQCwgNHNwAiBzBbAJgCBi4nkH 8EVBUCFdAHAkcHsIYQfwdQQQBzADoAqxdCZuBJAEICJBCHBhIsEl4yJGSVJOJ9AD8BpsAyBiIOAj 8XRsaVxnaBPQJhEDoEYFEGT2YSSgJ5BnJoAFQB5BKeGWdCDRIbZsJKBzeSYALGljIcAkYSIgwkVu /nYhEAIgH6IewyfQHuATwT0kc1ARwASQI2AEkGxlLC4gILMTUG8JwGFt2yLgIREgC4AmIHYvMRwA 6x5QAMByI0B0BCAKwB9RjyRwK1IFoB9gdHJ5I9A7E1ALgGMFICvzKeFOUPhSLWEN0AMQBzApohPA +SHDcy4f7zDhIYEtYAfR7wPwK1AjYCiyTQpQKMAvMdxvZiS0KKMCEGMmgCsW/y+QBBAkETpRCsAn MCRzIqP/JvIsgDPBAjAw0ytRIRA29D8A0DWDN5QZYCyQAyBwZfpvC1BlI9AfQAGRLBErUpsekC+Q bQDAKOF0dyJiewWRH0BtLIAj4AhwLWB2/yXFCfAtZz6SA2AT0D2jL735KKNleAtQJEE/tC8SHqDn J7Ah0jiycXUHQDewNBF7ONApYGYg4AIQL0EIcHnfIvE+xCtABHAqUWEEICtR5ySgJoAg4HVwK0MZ 0CQw/whwH4A50TjQPOQo8BlgMTDvJHALYCNBGdBnRoI8tw3B/xlxSYEesEGUL6A17CFjB5D/KaJI pSyQA6AHQCQwMtFC8d89oCS0R/JAYAWgcEdTK1K8IkQFkAtgRlQogWgsgM030HdJcTAhZHUfgCRw 50lxQGBKoXVsBUBS5SJIfTXdTyZBC2AT0CExJzB3/nMvkAJALzFUQCmAKWNJg/8ilSYBBAAi4EHg AxA/cSDg/ynhGdBG8FABL7E17CEAK+P/I9BSNClgQVApoiHQB4AzUecnQTqiUNJvYgGQMPFAYPxW SAXwLJAEEFkiVCURgJFVcjE3LUFQbnUT0Pkj0DUtJvJYwyPgBnEHkd0kkUMJgArBHnBwKjAEIOQo SR7wYSljRABwEXD9SAJyVREqcScwL7RKAWDm81+xLnEgJBzwI9AzkQpA7x6QHNAj4FRAcGTAHNA1 3QUkz2wKhTE0MjcgujQ3wVMzIAngLeFXCoUPZEoj0GUiYtAyNDA0IQqFKDMxOWVgMzY0Ni1sYDMa 0CDwQVhWOi/AcDIyAdA5CoVF3C1NW1FxAWrCQBnQZLHpAjBsLgWgbTXsHT8eQQt0NRjxAHaQAAAD ABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMICYc3Hy5b4BQAAIMICYc3Hy5b4BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAA AAD21w== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE5C8.9078AC40-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 13 23:39:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA07426 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08056 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:02:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07983 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 811159928worldnet ([12.79.227.119]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990814030131.ROIQ15884@811159928worldnet> for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 03:01:31 +0000 Message-ID: <004d01bee601$94f20f80$77e34f0c@att.net> Reply-To: "Matthew Kline" From: "Matthew Kline" To: References: <037d01bee2b5$ea4faa40$343d5818@ccg-computer.atl.mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Paulownia Trees from China Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:03:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEE5E0.0A718780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2223 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEE5E0.0A718780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paulownia has escaped cultivation in the mid-Atlantic states, to invade = highway cuts, disturbed areas, and native forests. In the native forest = areas it seems to disrupt the undergrowth, eliminating native shrubs. = (I could not discern whether this was due to soil disturbance or change = of soil organisms.) The 'cute' purple flowers and potential rapid = growth aid sales of Paulownia trees offered by mail order catalogues. = While these are field observations and not scientifically backed, the = forest biologists I have spoken to take a dim view of the species. = Previous posts have indicated brittle wood with wind and ice damage. = The trees offer few redeeming qualities and no wildlife value. From an = environmental standpoint I could not recommend planting more invasive = exotic species. I highly recommend that the Georgia Land Stewardship = Assoc. read Alien Invasion: America's Battle With Non-Native Animals = and Plants, by Robert S. Devine. Paulownia is not as invasive as = Melaleuca, Kudzu, or Norway Maples, but please consider the health of = forests near the propagation areas. Mary Craig Wrote: Some discussions on the Georgia Land Stewardship list have addressed = this tree native to China with a deep tap root, pounds of leaves, and a = life of some 10 years to have a viable timber product. Previous Sanet = posts have mentioned its ability to aid in reclaiming sites of hog = waste. =20 The issue of introducing the species to this area with out = understanding its impact on the balance of our eco system was raised. Is there a useful insight as to introducing yet another foreign plant = into our region (Southeast)? Does anyone know of potential problems with = this tree? =20 Thank you =20 Incidentally see the Georgia Land Stewardship Assoc.. site at http://www.pd.org/~glsa/=20 ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEE5E0.0A718780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Paulownia  has escaped cultivation in the = mid-Atlantic=20 states, to invade highway cuts, disturbed areas, and native = forests.  In=20 the native forest areas it seems to disrupt the undergrowth, eliminating = native=20 shrubs.  (I could not discern whether this was due to soil = disturbance or=20 change of soil organisms.)  The 'cute' purple flowers and potential = rapid=20 growth aid sales of Paulownia trees offered by mail order = catalogues. =20 While these are field observations and not scientifically backed, the = forest=20 biologists I have spoken to take a dim view of the species.  = Previous posts=20 have indicated brittle wood with wind and ice damage.  The trees = offer few=20 redeeming qualities and no wildlife value.  From an environmental=20 standpoint I could not recommend planting more invasive exotic = species.  I=20 highly recommend that the Georgia Land Stewardship Assoc. read = Alien=20 Invasion:  America's Battle With Non-Native Animals and=20 Plants, by Robert S. Devine.  Paulownia is not as = invasive as=20 Melaleuca, Kudzu, or Norway Maples, but please consider the health of = forests=20 near the propagation areas.
     
    Mary
    Craig Wrote:
    Some discussions on the Georgia = Land=20 Stewardship list have addressed this tree native to China with a deep = tap=20 root, pounds of leaves, and a life of some 10 years to have a viable = timber=20 product. Previous Sanet posts have mentioned its ability to aid in = reclaiming=20 sites of hog waste.
     
    The issue of introducing the = species to this=20 area with out understanding its impact on the balance of our eco = system was=20 raised.
    Is there a useful insight as to = introducing=20 yet another foreign plant into our region (Southeast)? Does anyone = know of=20 potential problems with this tree?
     
    Thank you
     
    Incidentally see the Georgia Land = Stewardship=20 Assoc.. site at
    http://www.pd.org/~glsa/ =
     
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEE5E0.0A718780-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 14 13:36:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA00874 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 13:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19333 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:43:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19316 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.30] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id xa050099 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:39:15 -0500 Message-ID: <005f01bee673$c2761a60$1f9fc2d1@jvworstell> From: "Jim Worstell" To: References: Subject: Come work with DEN Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:40:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2225 If you or one of your friends needs a challenge, loves rural areas and enjoys organizing, we might just have what you've been looking for. Delta Enterprise Network (DEN) has been funded to begin establishing "enterprise facilitation units" based in Dumas and Almyra, Arkansas and serving DeSha, Chicot, Phillips, Arkansas, Monroe and Lee Counties. Three people will be hired as soon as possible to help farmers and rural communities find sustainable alternatives to least-cost commodity production. Initially the work will involve rapid rural appraisal to define the landscape of value-added diversification in the area, followed by awareness-building through informal meetings, workshops and a conference in early November. As the project develops, staff will be expected to facilitate feasibility analysis, business plan development and integrative research with farmers, entrepreneurs and researchers. Each positions will entail some public policy education work (national, regional and state). In a final "working interview" in the Delta, the successful applicants will demonstrate ability to work with or around local power structures in the Delta. Must be willing to move to Dumas and live in the Delta. Positions will have an intensive three month trial period. Salary depends on experience ($21-$42,000 per year). If you're ready to pick up and move to the Delta right now, check out our website (http://www.deltanetwork.org). If you don't know much about the Delta, check out our links page, especially http://www.moon.com/road_trip/great_river_road/mississippi.html. Questions? Call Sara or Angela at 870-673-2132 from 9-5 beginning Monday, August 16. Interested? Fax a two page resume and list of five references (with phone numbers) to 870-673-7050. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 14 21:11:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA22198 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 21:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24456 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:21:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24448 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.66.100.52] (dyn-209-66-100-52.scrz.got.net [209.66.100.52]) by always.got.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA83018; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:23:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: seaseal@mail.got.net (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:20:38 -0700 To: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten), sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cecile Mills Subject: Re: ANTI-CROP BIOTERRORISM SYMPOSIUM, AUGUST 1999 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2226 colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) wrote: >Most people have heard of the Irish potato famine and other >plant diseases that have wiped out a country's staple crop. >Throughout history, there have been many famines and epidemics as >a result of disease. What if they were caused deliberately? Many >people are aware of the threat of biological weapons directed >towards people, but few realize the potential dire effects of crop >bioterrorism, the use of pathogens to cause a food crop epidemic >or contamination of our food supply. I would like some thoughts on how MONOCROPPING was and is responsible for disease epidemics such as the Irish Potato Famine. Would diversifying crops prevent possibility of bioterrorism? seaseal@got.net believe it just before you see it To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 15 00:07:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA24637 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02056 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 23:20:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01997 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 23:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0204.gamewood.net [206.229.249.51]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA01741 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 23:19:25 -0400 Message-ID: <003901bee6e6$ea4c7b60$33f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: comments on ag. fueled by Avery/Salatin debate + others. Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 23:25:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2227 Thanks so much for supplying the debate transcripts! I enjoyed it a lot, very informative. I especially thought Avery's comments in support of America's beef with hormones interesting as he then uses the opposite argument in favor of irradiation. Avery states: <"Recently the Codex Aliment arius in Rome, which is the referee for the World Trade Organization, said "Since you haven't given us any proof of danger, you're going to have to lift the trade barrier." All of this rhetoric about Americans having bad food is a reaction to Europe having it's feet held to the fire on scientific proof of danger. Either put up or shut up, and they can't put up."> So says I: They haven't proven that the hormones are harmful, so let's force them to import the stuff into their food supply... and yet... Avery: I, also, am in favor of irradiation. I am particularly in favor of it for organic food that is grown when it is grown with the assistance of manure, because that involves a serious bacterial risk, and the irradiation would eliminate that. To me, irradiation is the one big, obvious thing we can do to make what is already the safest food supply in world history significantly safer. But, so far, the public doesn't want it, and we live in a democracy. First I'm going to ignore for the moment his comment that implies that organic foods pose a more serious risk of contamination than over-populated industrial agricultural production, and therefore need irradiation, and focus on the last part of his statement: "But, so far, the public doesn't want it (irradiation), and we live in a democracy." If we're so democratic, why are we shoving our hormone treated beef at Europe? When I hear the words "has no proven harmful effects" I get real nervous; remember how Pen-phen (sp.) was released by the FDA for weight-loss, and then after the public was used as Guinea pigs to prove its harmful effects it was then pulled off the shelves? So maybe the EU hasn't been able to find enough proof to support their ban, I myself don't see too much harm in the hormones (of course I graduated from a land-grant college that was doing such studies and have in the past popped many a Ralgro into the ear of a steer), but if they don't want it , so be it. Another thing that gets me riled is a newsreport on NPR the other day- (may have been 2 separate reports) that Clinton and Glickman are trying to find ways to open up export markets to help the farmer and also how they want to find more uses for agricultural products as an energy source (ethanol, methane, etc.). Oh yeah, a lot of help to FARMERS!!! When's the last time you heard a farmer talk about filling a barge to send to another country? Or build a methane collector on his small family farm!? The average farmer takes his grain down to the grain elevator where he takes what ever he can get for his grain, he's not happy about it but since most of the smaller grain elevators close enough for him to transport his product to have been bought up/closed down by the same folk(ADM, Cargill) that own the elevator he's at now, there's not much he can do about it. Unless of course he becomes a "price maker" instead of a "price taker" by value adding or finding a niche market, and most traditional farmers won't/can't do that. What's my solution? Heck if I know! I guess those small alternative/sustainable farmers that can make a go of farming keep up the good fight and try to get the media interested? You know, the underdog versus the indusrtial giant kind of thing? We need more Greg Gunthorps, Joel Salatins, CSA's etc. to pave the way. Hope one day I too can say "I'm a successful farmer". I'm compiling a little booklet of farming enterprises that if not at least successful, are keeping afloat amidst the sea of agricultural naysayers in order to inform my friends and other contacts (not to mention inspire myself) that there is hope! Amy Amy To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 15 13:48:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA16877 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 13:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18694 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18576 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 13:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0289.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.183.34]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03554; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 10:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B4ED30.4E6FE9D2@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:14:40 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Gillman CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: ice age References: <199908131637.MAA23787@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37B460A1.57E9BCC0@cafarmersmarkets.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2228 All these ideas are really worthless, because they go contrary to what the Creator has already said will happen. He will melt all the ice and snow as part of the ways He will carry on His war of Armageddon, destroying the entire manmade system of living, and restore Eden, human and nature perfection forever on a perfect planet. Sure, scientists will say this is silly, but time will prove the Creator right as always. All those people before the Flood thought they were pretty smart too, but they all drowned. Phil Gillman wrote: > Another ice age is indeed very possible, as one of the most likely > scenarios to result from global warming is the disruption of the North > Atlantic Sink, the area off of Greenland where glacial runoff sinks into > the deep, rather than remaining on the surface. Unfortunately, if the > volume of this fresh water becomes too great, then the sink is > disrupted. (So what's the big deal?) well, if the sink is disrupted, the > surface currents are then inturn disrupted, and the surface current most > likely to be effected is the Gulf Stream. The failure of the sink would > most likely stop the flow of the gulf stream, and almost immediately > plung europe into an ice age, which would in turn effect global weather > systems drastically. This Appears to have happened in the past, often > occuring suddenly, over the course of only 2 to 5 years altering global > weather patterns. > > Many scientists are begining to see this as the most likely outcome of > continued global warming (a sort of ecological rebalancing perhaps ;-) > SO, grow organic, and rotate in grazing animals- for that seems to be > the best way to survive a drought, AND reduce global warming at the same > time- > > Phil Gillman > Sustainable Systems Consulting and Marketing > philmang@hotmail.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 15 14:53:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA21031 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 14:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29008 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 14:14:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail1.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.192]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28964 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 14:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.146.34] (dialup-0546.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.146.34]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA61323; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:13:09 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 17:48:36 +0100 To: Cecile Mills , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: ANTI-CROP BIOTERRORISM SYMPOSIUM, AUGUST 1999 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2229 >colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) wrote: >>I would like some thoughts on how MONOCROPPING was and is responsible for >disease epidemics such as the Irish Potato Famine. Would diversifying crops >prevent possibility of bioterrorism? > >seaseal@got.net > There is a level beyond which diversification can't help that much. The novelist John Christopher wrote a sci-fi in the 60s called "The death of grass". Think about it. kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 15 17:02:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA04159 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 17:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05430 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 16:06:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05331 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22344 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 13:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 07:28:46 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Farmers market info URL Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2230 Howdy, all-- Darth Cheezer and I have been working on the last touches to the Hawaii Web site (the combination farm tour/volcano/Leonid adventure of last November on the Big Island)...and trying to learn more about cherimoya fruits (soursops). Which we literally ran into--squish--all over the island. He dug up a URL that I thought might interest those of you who followed the farmers market information thread here recently: http://www.marketreport.com/indexsaved.htm Some intriguing information here, as well as a very nice interface. The site's sensibility is quite urban/urbane...but those of you watching consumer trends for direct marketing could find it instructive. Unfortunately, the thing was apparently developed for sale, and it doesn't look like it's been updated recently. Who would buy it? I don't know...I'm not sure what the product is, to be honest (what does one buy when one buys a Web site of this nature?), but I don't want to digress. I learned from this site that Calif. direct-marketing farmers are producing quail, duck, and goose eggs for sale...and apparently there's an eager market. Hm. Perhaps I could go into the peach-faced lovebird egg biz. I'll inform my two little males (Pasha and Squirt) about that, and see what they think. :^] peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On the Borscht Scale--zero being NO BORSCHT and 10 being BORSCHT-O-PLENTY, I give them a big zero. Keep in mind that I don't like borscht, so zero is good. --Mister 3D To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 15 21:48:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06646 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10022 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:36:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09897 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d62-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.62]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA31789; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:35:02 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Amy and Eric Johnson" , "sanet-mg" Subject: organic standards/manures, was... comments on ag. fueled by Avery/Salatin debate + others. Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:39:55 +1000 Message-ID: <000001bee77f$dc832e40$3e3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <003901bee6e6$ea4c7b60$33f9e5ce@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2231 Amy wrote "Avery: I, also, am in favor of irradiation. I am particularly in favor of it for organic food that is grown when it is grown with the assistance of manure, because that involves a serious bacterial risk, and the irradiation would eliminate that." Amy, certified organic food, at least in Australia, should not be grown in manure. Manures must go through some adequate (time or temperature) composting process to deal with pathogens. I think that we, as organisms who are 10% dry weight microorganisms ourselves, should try to move away from the marketing perspective that a world without microbes is a real world or a safe world. The issue is of overall plant health and nutrition and of a microorganism environment which is on balance beneficial, supporting larger organism (plants or people) which are robust and vigorous at the cellular level and resistant to immune disorder. I agree with a focus of your message, that there is nothing special about replacing chemical fertilisers with 'natural' fertilisers. The focus of organic growing has to be well away from that. The focus needs to move from the plant to the soil. Only in a really healthy and lively soil will a plant with vitality grow. In a real sense, the origins of life are around us every moment in the soil, in the intimacy of association and the complexity of the boundaries between mineral derived molecules, bacteria and fungi, and plant root fibres. As in the intestine, the symbiotic relationships are essential to health of the organism. It is sensible really, to look at our own dependence on plants, and on animals better equipped than we are to digest plants, as part of the whole symbiotic package. And note that parasitism is really a sub-set of symbiosis - it is not always easy to say that a given microorganism (or a given bug, or person in a community) is just a dangerous factor or one which has a role of value from some perspectives. When overall ecological balance is weakened, when organisms are subjected to environmental stresses, opportunistic organisms may have destabilising effects. The purpose of organic growing, in an ecologically supportive sense, is not to fight individual bugs, but to strengthen whole ecologies. Dennis The Australian National Standard for Organic and Bio-dynamic Produce .Second Edition Organic Produce Advisory Committee, Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service Copyright ISBN 0-646-35460-4 "3.2 The aims outlined above are achieved through management practices that create soils of enhanced biological activity, as determined by the humus level, crumb structure and feeder root development, such that plants are fed through the soil ecosystem and not primarily through soluble fertilisers added to the soil. Plants grown in organic systems take up nutrients that are released slowly from humus colloids, at a rate governed by warmth. In this system, the metabolism of the plant and its ability to assimilate nutrients is not overstressed by excessive uptake of soluble salts in the soil water (such as nitrates). Therefore the development of soil structure is fundamental to organic farming systems. Organic farming systems rely to the maximum extent feasible upon crop rotations, crop residues, animal manures [but on this, Amy, see 3.9 below], legumes, green manures, mechanical cultivation, approved mineral-bearing rocks and aspects of biological pest management to maintain soil productivity and tilth, to supply plant nutrients and to control diseases, insects, weeds and other pests... "3.9 The fertility and the biological activity of the soil must be maintained or increased by any combination of the following methods: - cultivation of legumes, green manures or perennial deep-rooting plants in an appropriate rotation programme; - sheet composting using animal manures must go through two green manure crops before the area is used for small crops; - fully composted organic matter derived from selected sources as listed in Annex IB;..." Annex B does not allow fresh manure: "B. Permitted materials for use in Soil Fertilising and Soil Conditioning Substances Specific conditions slurry from certified sources aerobic compost compost is the conversion of organic anaerobic compost materials into humus colloids straw mined carbon-based products such as peat, or coal blood and bone, fish meal, hoof and horn meal, or other waste products from fish or animal processing seaweed or seaweed meal plant and animal derived by-products of the food and textile industries sawdust, bark and wood waste from untreated sources basic slag only after residue testing for heavy metals dolomite and lime from natural sources gypsum (calcium sulphate) from natural sources calcined or rock phosphate and other crushed mineral bearing rocks excluding those minerals which are more than 20% soluble phosphoric guano rock potash and sulphate potash wood ash from untreated sources sulphur clay, bentonite attapulgite perlite trace elements includes materials such as borax natural chelates are acceptable, eg ligno sulphonates not synthetically chelated elements and those using the natural chelating agents such as citric, maleic, tartaric and other di- and tri- acids homoeopathic preparations approved microbiological and biological preparations naturally occurring biologicalorganisms (eg worms and worm castings) excluding products derived from genetic modification technology fish products zeolites vermiculite potassium glauconite" To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 15 22:33:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA07113 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20877 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:48:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20788 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp49.epix.net [209.74.60.49]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999072601/PL) with ESMTP id VAA24631 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:47:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37B76F47.CC9F6F4B@epix.net> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:54:15 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: Which legume cover crop? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2232 Sanet, I want to plant a legume cover in some of my small grain fields, that were harvested this summer, in preparation for no till planting sweet corn in the spring. I already planted a soybean/spring oats mix for the same purpose. I was thinking that field peas might be a better cover due to more N contribution. I'll plant vetch later. Any other ideas or suggestions? BTW, we just got our first decent rain in 6 weeks that I think will germinate the seeds. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 00:42:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08639 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 00:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07183 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07169 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08381; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 00:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA01723; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:57:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:57:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Steve Groff cc: sanet Subject: Re: Which legume cover crop? In-Reply-To: <37B76F47.CC9F6F4B@epix.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2233 On Sun, 15 Aug 1999, Steve Groff wrote: > I want to plant a legume cover in some of my small grain fields, that > were harvested this summer, in preparation for no till planting sweet > corn in the spring. I already planted a soybean/spring oats mix for the > same purpose. I was thinking that field peas might be a better cover due > to more N contribution. I'll plant vetch later. Any other ideas or > suggestions? Austrian Winter Pea or maybe rye grain + tall sweet clover (biennial - yellow and white) which grow well together. I don't know what TSC does if planted this time of the year but if sown now with rye and it (TSC) germinates in Spring it will come up nicely within the rye taking off from winter dormancy for flush of spring growth. Its a vigouous grower despite shading and will overtake the rye, maturing as the rye dies down and isn't bothered by allelopathic. TSC is very deep rooted and fixes more nitrogen than any other clover. In second year of growth it really takes off and puts out lots of seed. Harvesting for forage or plowing it under before this should easily prevent it from become a problem weed. I think there's an ATTRA bulletin on cover crops that recommends planting rye grain and TSC together. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 09:03:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA12907 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26775 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:28:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26771 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:28:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0202.gamewood.net [206.229.249.49]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA25890 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:27:57 -0400 Message-ID: <006501bee7fc$b408c100$31f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: Re:comments on ag. fueled by Avery/Salatin debate + others Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:33:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01BEE7C2.06C81480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2234 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BEE7C2.06C81480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sanet-eers and Dennis, I understand about needing to compost manure, I never use fresh = uncomposted manure, my point was, and I didn't go into this in my post, = as I was referring to a later part of Avery's statement ("To me, = irradiation is the one big, obvious thing we can do to make what is already the safest food supply in world history significantly safer. But, so far, the public doesn't want it, and we = live in a democracy.") in which he defers to public refusal of irradiation based upon = non-scientific reasons, but will not yield to the same type of refusal = by the European countries which ban hormone treated beef. But I resent his comments since he implies that organic food poses a = greater threat of bacterial risk. Granted healthy soil is chock full of = bacteria as opposed to chemically loaded soils which provide a hostile = environment for these microbes. But to imply that organic food is a = greater health risk and therefore in greater need of irradiation than = say, hamburger out of a Monfort packing plant, is irresponsible. Maybe = if Avery wasn't so negative about people who are managing to make = successful use of sustainable/alternative methods, he would feel better = about his son following his agricultural footsteps. Thanks very much for the organics standards bit at the end of your = e-mail! Good reading! Amy ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BEE7C2.06C81480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Sanet-eers and Dennis,
     
    I understand about needing to compost manure, I = never use=20 fresh uncomposted manure, my point was, and I didn't go into this in my = post, as=20 I was referring to a later part of Avery's statement ("To me, = irradiation is the=20 one big, obvious thing we
    can do to make what is already the safest = food=20 supply in world history
    significantly safer. But, so far, the public = doesn't=20 want it, and we live in
    a democracy.")
    in which he defers to = public=20 refusal of irradiation based upon non-scientific reasons, but will not = yield to=20 the same type of refusal by the European countries which ban  = hormone=20 treated beef.
     
    But I resent his comments since he implies that=20 organic food poses a greater threat of bacterial = risk.=20 Granted healthy soil is chock full of bacteria as opposed to chemically = loaded=20 soils which provide a hostile environment for these microbes. But to = imply that=20 organic food is a greater health risk and therefore in greater need of=20 irradiation than say, hamburger out of a Monfort packing plant, is=20 irresponsible. Maybe if Avery wasn't so negative about people who are = managing=20 to make successful use of sustainable/alternative methods, he would feel = better=20 about his son following his agricultural footsteps.
     
    Thanks very much for the organics standards bit at = the end of=20 your e-mail! Good reading!
     
    Amy
    ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01BEE7C2.06C81480-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 09:35:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA13577 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:35:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18112 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:03:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18058 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:07:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'bliebhardt@JOHNSTOWN.TEAGASC.IE'" Subject: Food ad Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:07:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2235 Forwarded: From: bliebhardt@JOHNSTOWN.TEAGASC.IE Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:02:23 +0000 Subject: Food ad To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Folks, The Sunday Times in the UK had a full page ad that went as follows in bold type. NO GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD WHERE YOU SEE THIS LABEL SAINSBURY'S SAINSBURY'S ARE THE FIRST MAJOR SUPERMARKET TO START MAKING ALL OWN-LABEL FOOD WITHOUT GENETICALLY MODIFIED INGREDIENTS. IT HASN'T BEEN EASY. BUT BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU IT'S IMPORTANT TO US. SAINBURY'S MAKING LIFE TASTE BETTER That is the total ad. Last year at this time Monsanto ran six weeks of ads selling GMO's to the public and one year later this is the result. Sainbury's is a major UK supermarket. For those in the US I think this would like Safeway, Kroger or A and P putting this add in the NY Times. The English Govt't has said that in the future all GMO trials will be done with out letting the public know where they are being carried out because many have been destroyed. Last week the news from France said that the makers of French animal feeds were caught putting sewage sludge in the animal feeds-a practice that was supposed to have been abolished in 1991. It seems to me that some of the future strength of organic agriculture will depend on how conventional agricultrue continues to play the game. If they continue to do stupid anti consummer things as they have in the past few years they will continue to make the case for organic very well. By anti cousummer things I am talking about labeling, being honest with what is in the package, animal welfare, environmental stewardship, and being honest about GMO', use of sewage sludge, irriadiation, pesticides and nutrient sources and some social issues. The US continuing efforts to maket hormone fed beef in my opinion is another really smart effort. How long will it take them to realize-people over here do not want that stuff. It would appear that the consummers in much of Europe have lost faith in the regulatory structure because of BSE, Dioxan's in animals and a host of other things. So marketing something which has unknown risks and they are unknown makes it a tough sell. Bill Liebhardt To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 10:51:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15186 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28818 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:07:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web604.mail.yahoo.com (web604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28742 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990816140514.19536.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web604.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:05:14 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:05:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: and another ge article To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2236 Labelling issues are on the horizon... Next Food Fight Brewing Is Over Listing Genes on Labels Processors, Retailers Resisting Demand of Some Consumer Groups By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, August 15, 1999; Page A17 Food is more thoroughly labeled than ever. When shoppers go to the grocery store, they can tell at a glance how much salt, sugar, fiber, fat and selected nutrients each item contains. But labels do not disclose perhaps the most controversial change in the nature of food these days: the addition of genes from unrelated organisms through genetic engineering. Now, spurred by a debate over possible health and environmental risks from gene-altered foods in Europe, where labeling rules are already in force, some Americans are starting to call for such labels here as well. It is a demand that the food industry desperately hopes will go away. But many experts believe that the labeling issue will be the battleground on which the war over engineered food will be fought. "Labeling is absolutely a critical acid test issue for the U.S. biotech food industry," said Charles Benbrook, a consultant on biotechnology for Consumers Union and a former executive director of the National Research Council's board on agriculture, an arm of the National Academy of Sciences. Until recently, no one in the United States seemed to care whether gene-modified food was labeled. But that's changing. Last summer, two consumer groups sued the Food and Drug Administration, claiming that the agency's failure to institute a labeling regimen for gene-altered food is in violation of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act. The law demands that food additives not "generally recognized as safe" be labeled. This spring, activists gathered a half-million signatures calling for labeling of gene-altered food and submitted them to Congress and other officials. Most food processors and retailers are opposed. They note that U.S. regulators have deemed gene-altered food safe, and they warn that labels could cost consumers millions of dollars. Most important, they say, mandatory labels would wrongly imply that safety or nutritional value has been compromised in these foods, undermining confidence in the high-tech varieties that producers claim will ultimately help feed the world's growing population. "The concern," said Carl Feldbaum, president of the Biotechnology Industry Organization, "is that a label would be seen as a stigma, like a skull and crossbones." The industry is also wary of labels saying "free of genetically engineered ingredients," because such labels might imply superiority, as in "fat free." The Grocery Manufacturers of America (GMA) recently announced that it and other groups would initiate a $1 million advertising and educational campaign to counter the nascent U.S. anti-biotech and pro-labeling movements. "We are trying to effectively reach out so what has happened in certain European countries does not happen here," said GMA spokesman Gene Grabowski. "In our view a lot of clamor and misinformation and hysteria has been allowed to overwhelm reasonable debate on this issue." The industry's position raises the difficult question of whether there are appropriate limits to the amount of information that should be made available to consumers and, if so, who should decide them. The FDA and the food industry say labels should be reserved for relevant, "science-based" information. But a number of consumers believe that science should not be the sole criterion. Some orthodox rabbis, for example, say their strict dietary laws require them to know when a foreign gene -- say, a pig gene -- has been spliced into their food. (No pig genes have been put into crops, but one has been experimentally engineered into salmon to accelerate growth.) Other shoppers are concerned about the ecological risks that some scientists have said gene-altered agriculture poses. They don't want their purchasing dollars to support biotech agriculture, but they find the "organic" niche too limited. Biotech labeling is not unprecedented in this country. In 1993, Ben & Jerry's triggered a three-year legal battle by labeling its products as containing milk only from cows raised free of a genetically engineered hormone that boosts milk production. "People can say 'dolphin-free tuna' and 'stone-ground wheat,' " said Liz Bankowski, a senior director for the company in South Burlington, Vt. "We felt strongly that people have the right to know how their milk is produced." After tangling with federal and state regulators over the issue, Ben & Jerry's won the right to keep the label as long as it is accompanied by a disclaimer saying the FDA considers the milk equivalent to conventional milk, and that in any case there is no known way of testing milk to confirm whether it is really free of the offending hormone. That problem of being able to back up a claim that a food either contains or does not contain genetically engineered ingredients has plagued regulators in the European Union, where a law went into effect in September saying all gene-modified foods must be labeled. The European law did not specify how much gene-altered material must be present to trigger a label. Now EU ministers are having to negotiate whether a food can avoid the label if it has less than, say, 1 percent engineered ingredients. They must also decide whether "1 percent" means 1 percent of the whole product or 1 percent of the ingredient in question. Complicating the issue, altered DNA or proteins can disappear during processing, so products can test negative despite their gene-altered origins. At the same time, even a sprinkling of engineered cornmeal or soy flour from a previous shipment can make an entire grain silo or rail car of otherwise unengineered food test falsely positive as engineered. Melodi Nelson has a good sense of what that can mean. Last fall, testers in Europe detected traces of genetically engineered corn in organic corn chips made by her company, Prima Terra Inc. of Hudson, Wis. Some of the corn supplied to Prima Terra from a certified organic supplier was contaminated, it turned out, with minuscule amounts of gene-altered corn, perhaps because a few grains of engineered pollen blew into the organic grower's fields from a neighboring farm. The positive test forced Prima Terra to recall 87,000 bags of chips valued at $147,000. "It broke my heart," she said. What do consumers really want? Consumer groups cite studies indicating that 80 to 90 percent of Americans think gene-altered food ought to be marked, and 50 to 60 percent say they would choose nonengineered food if they could. But other studies have found that those numbers drop precipitously when people are given additional information, such as that the FDA has deemed the food safe and nutritious. "In focus groups, consumers say, 'Tell us if there is something meaningful or different or good or bad,' " said Tom Hoban, a professor of sociology at North Carolina State University in Raleigh, who has done research on biotech labels. "Consumers are saying, 'I have enough food anxiety, and phew, I don't want to worry about something else unless I have to.' " Consumers have also balked when told labeling may significantly increase the cost of the food. Grocery groups have not made specific cost estimates but argue that labeling would entail creating expensive separate transportation and processing streams for engineered and nonengineered foods. Yet quietly, some of America's largest agricultural corporations have begun to do just that. In June, Archer Daniels Midland Co., the giant commodities processor and merchandiser, said it would separate U.S.-grown nonengineered crops for export to European countries. Several large American growers have begun using gene-testing companies to certify food as free of foreign DNA. And as confident as American companies say they are about the safety of gene-altered food, fear of public rejection has them on the defensive. Last month, when Greenpeace announced that one kind of Gerber baby food contained gene-altered ingredients, the company quickly announced it would find a supplier that could guarantee nonengineered ingredients. Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 10:54:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA15233 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26044 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:05:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25953 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990816140414.27836.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:04:14 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:04:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: another genetic eng. article To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2237 Biotech Food Raises a Crop of Questions Genetically modified food offers benefits, but is it safe for human consumption? By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, August 15, 1999; Page A01 Steve Taylor practically yawned when researchers at Pioneer Hi-Bred, the giant agricultural seed company, asked him in 1995 to study a new soybean they had invented. "I didn't think we'd find anything interesting," the University of Nebraska scientist recently recalled. Little did Taylor know that his findings would help trigger a wave of anxiety over the safety of genetically engineered food in Europe, a wave that, years later, now threatens to engulf the United States as well. Pioneer had spliced a Brazil nut gene into soybeans, creating a soybean that boasted a nutritious nut protein. Taylor's task was to find out whether the new soybean would cause allergies in people allergic to Brazil nuts, a potential danger because people with allergies to nuts wouldn't think to avoid soy. The company had put just one of the Brazil nut's thousands of proteins into its new soybean, and the odds of that one causing the nut's allergies were incredibly low, Taylor said. So he could hardly believe it when first one test, then another, and finally a third indicated that the transferred protein was indeed a major cause of Brazil nut allergies. In trying to build a better soybean, the company had made a potentially deadly one. Pioneer immediately halted the soybean project. But Taylor's study lives on today as a symbol of everything that is both frightening and reassuring about genetically altered food, which has quietly made its way into nearly every American kitchen. Frightening because the study proved that a gene-altered food could cause an unexpected and potentially fatal reaction. Reassuring because the problem was detected before the product was marketed. And symbolic above all because it was, and still is, one of the very few studies ever to look directly for any harm from an engineered food or crop. That dearth of studies is the legacy of a U.S. policy that considers gene-altered plants and food to be fundamentally the same as conventional ones, a policy some Americans are starting to question. It is also the legacy of the sheer scientific difficulty of conducting the kinds of tests that might assure people that engineered crops and food are safe. And it is the legacy of broken promises by the Food and Drug Administration and the Environmental Protection Agency, both of which have said for the past five years that they intend to write rules to minimize the chances that gene-altered food will cause allergies or damage the environment. "Americans are starting to realize that this process is not as all wrapped up as they thought it was," said Carol Tucker Foreman, a food safety specialist at the Consumer Federation in Washington. Genetically engineered food, which is endowed with bacterial, viral and other genes not native to human food, has been widely, if mostly unknowingly, consumed in the United States since 1996. As far as scientists can tell, no one has ever been harmed. But with evidence accumulating that the crops may be less environmentally benign than biotech companies had predicted -- most recently, gene-altered corn was found capable of killing monarch butterflies -- some Americans are reconsidering the technology's overall safety. "I've had more calls about this allergy research in the past three months than I've had in the three years since we published it," Taylor said. In Europe, that crisis of confidence already runs deep. Activists regularly vandalize newly planted plots of gene-altered crops. Major grocery chains have refused to carry engineered food. And food processors have begun to hire DNA fingerprinting labs to verify that their products are free of foreign genes. The British Medical Association has warned that the technology may lead to the emergence of new allergies and speed the evolution of microbes resistant to antibiotics. Other groups worry that gene-altered crops may lead to the growth of insecticide-resistant bugs, or "superweeds" unfazed by herbicides. In this country, gene-altered food is virtually unavoidable. About one-third of the corn growing in the United States is genetically engineered, mostly to exude its own insecticide, as is about half of the cotton crop (including some grown for edible cottonseed oil) and a smaller percentage of potatoes. Half of all U.S. soybeans are genetically modified as well, mostly to produce a chemical that makes the plants impervious to weed-killing sprays. So with the exception of explicitly organic food, which flows through independent "identity-preserved" food streams, nearly everything made with soy, corn or cotton in this country ends up containing at least some gene-altered ingredients. That's a lot of different foods. Soy protein can be found in about 60 percent of all processed food, including frozen meals, baby food, yogurt and other products. And corn, in addition to being the main ingredient in tortilla chips and corn starch, provides the high-fructose sweeteners found in many "natural" sodas, fruit drinks and other products. U.S. regulators and industry representatives argue that engineered food is, if anything, safer than conventional food. Old-fashioned plant breeding involves the random and uncontrolled reassortment of thousands of genes with every mating, they note. By contrast, biotechnology allows the precise transfer of a single well-understood gene into a plant, leaving little to chance. Moreover, they say, since 1992 the FDA has required allergy tests like the ones Taylor did for all new food made with genes taken from milk, eggs, wheat, fish, shellfish, legumes or nuts, foods that account for perhaps 90 percent of American food allergies. The agency also insists that gene-altered food be nutritionally equivalent to its conventional counterparts. Most important, advocates say, the FDA can demand extensive safety testing if the new gene "differs substantially" from those generally found in other food. But critics call that a hollow promise. They note that all 44 crops that so far have gained FDA marketing approval have avoided that scrutiny because the agency has accepted the industry's claims that they are "substantially equivalent" to conventional food. That is, they claim, because the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act demands safety testing on all new additives not "generally recognized as safe." Now activists are suing the FDA in federal court to force such testing on the bacterial and other genes being added to food crops. Safety testing can be difficult, as researchers found with the Flavr Savr tomato, which was given a gene to make it ripen more slowly. When Calgene and Zeneca Plant Science developed that tomato in the early 1990s, no FDA rules were in place. So the companies voluntarily agreed to conduct a full range of tests. When scientists tried to feed rodents the tomatoes, however, the animals wouldn't eat them, recalled Roger Salquist, one of the scientists involved in creating the Flavr Savr. "I gotta tell you, you can be Chef Boyardee and mice are still not going to like them." The researchers went so far as to force-feed the tomatoes to rodents through gastric tubes and stomach washes. The procedure made the rodents sick, of course, and revealed nothing about the food's safety. The tomato ultimately won approval from the FDA but failed in the market in part because it was so expensive. Safety testing is also difficult because there's no widely accepted way to predict a new food's potential to cause an allergy. The FDA is now five years behind in its promise to develop guidelines for doing so. With no formal guidelines in place, it's largely up to the industry to decide whether and how to test for the allergy potential of new food not already on the FDA's "must test" list. That means there is a small chance that someone will suffer an allergic reaction, and perhaps a serious one, but science can never assure safety with 100 percent certainty, said University of Wisconsin professor Robert Bush, chief of allergies at the Veterans Affairs Hospital in Madison. And when deciding how much effort and expense should be rallied to minimize that risk, Bush said, people should remember that new foods are introduced all the time from other parts of the world without regulators demanding studies on their allergy potential. "I don't think there was a hue and cry about introducing kiwis onto the U.S. market," Bush said, even though many Americans have proven allergic to them. The effects of gene-altered crops on the environment are at least as complicated as those on the human body. The EPA requires companies to conduct limited ecological impact tests before marketing gene-altered crops. But while the agency has promised to spell out in detail what crop developers should do to ensure that their gene-altered plants won't damage the environment, it has failed to do so for the past five years. Meanwhile, several recent scientific studies have highlighted a of potential problems that may be arising from engineered crops. The most publicized of those was the recent finding that pollen from corn that has been engineered to produce an insecticide called Bt is toxic not only to the caterpillar pest it is aimed at, but also to the monarch butterfly. The laboratory study leaves unresolved whether monarchs are actually being harmed around cornfields. But it inspired a coalition of national environmental groups, including several that had not weighed in on agricultural biotechnology before, to ask the EPA to stop its registration of new varieties of Bt corn until the agency comes up with a more complete ecological safety plan. At the same time, recent studies have pointed to a variety of other problems that seem to be emerging from Bt corn. One report, for example, suggests that the EPA's primary strategy for preventing the emergence of Bt-resistant insects -- a plan that calls for planting "refuges" of conventional corn in nearby fields -- may be doomed to fail because Bt resistance genes in insects behave differently than scientists had thought. Another study showed that Bt can alter the time it takes an insect to reach adulthood. That could dash the EPA's hopes that Bt-resistant insects will mate with Bt-susceptible ones and give birth to offspring still vulnerable to the chemical. Still other studies suggest that Bt corn may be inadvertently killing beneficial insects such as ladybugs and lacewings, which eat insect pests. If true, then the insecticidal crops may be giving reprieves to as many insect pests as they are killing. And scientists are finding that some engineered crops, such as herbicide-resistant canola in Canada, are cross-pollinating with wild relatives more widely than had been predicted, creating hardy weeds that can survive herbicidal sprays. Now, the EPA faces a potentially larger problem: whether to approve a new kind of Bt corn called Bt cry9C. It's a decision that many observers see as a test case of just where the agency will draw the line on the degree of risk it is willing to accept. While other versions of Bt break down harmlessly in the human digestive tract, the cry9C protein remains stable in the human stomach. And because the protein can survive digestion, it has increased potential to cause allergies. The FDA demands extra allergy testing for new food that contains such stable proteins. And AgrEvo, the German company that is seeking approval for cry9C corn, has conducted some additional tests, including a comparison of cry9C's molecular structure with known allergy-causing proteins. Reassuringly no similarities exist. But as the agency considers whether to approve the corn for human ingestion, it is up against the reality that there is no surefire way of testing a new protein like cry9C for its potential to cause allergies in people. "We all wish there was a test where you plug in a protein and out pops a 'yes' or 'no' answer," said Sue MacIntosh, a protein chemist with AgrEvo. But there is no such test, short of giving it to a lot of people and seeing what happens. The EPA is considering the company's application and hopes to make a decision by fall. THE NEW BIOLOGY Human cloning, once thought impossible, today seems possible, and perhaps even probable. Growing spare body parts in the lab, once the stuff of science fiction, is being pursued by scientists everywhere. Embryos are being genetically selected to be healthy, or male; "designer babies" may not be too far behind. Plants genetically engineered to produce their own pesticides, and even certain types of plastics, are growing in fields. Science is entering a new world where the once-unthinkable is suddenly doable. The Washington Post is examining this scientific revolution in a series of occasional articles about this new biology exploding at the turn of the century. ON THE SHELF Much of the corn, soy and cotton grown in the United States is genetically engineered. Therefore, ingesting food made from genetically engineered crops is almost inevitable. Percentage of U.S. crop that's genetically engineered: Corn 33% Soy 50% Cotton 50% Products that may contain one or more genetically engineered ingredient: Corn * Juice * Soda Cotton * Nuts Soy * Tuna Corn & Soy * Frozen pizza * Spaghetti sauce * Crackers * Cookies * Salad dressing Corn, Soy & Cotton * Soup Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 11:06:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA15619 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03133 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:20:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03100 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA14399; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37B81ECF.15CF3C25@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:23:12 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joel Brooks Gruver CC: sanet Subject: Re: stability in agroecosystems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2238 Joel, I'm not sure if this is exactly what your are loking for, but Deb Neher has looked at medium- and long-term perenial systems and annual systems, and the effects on microbial biomass and nematode communities. These are definitely non-crop! Neher, D.A., and Campbell, C.L. 1994. Nematode communities and microbial biomass in soils with annual and perenial crops. Applied Soil Ecology 1:17-28. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 11:52:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA16804 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02938 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:10:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amarron.propagation.net (amarron.propagation.net [216.221.160.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02926 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.35 (mx3-21.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.35]) by amarron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA30494; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:09:18 -0500 Message-ID: <37B82CD0.3E4@smallfarms.com> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 05:22:56 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Food safety Regs. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2239 Dear Readers: Is there anyone keeping track of the FDAs food safety guidelines that are being discussed in Congress? While I favor further food safety initiatives, I understand that there is the possibility that the guidelines may be enacted into law and that the cost of certification and audits will be carried by the individual farmer no matter how produce is marketed; the size of the farm; or the amount of product up for sale. As organic and sustainable farmers who have been at the forefront of the food safety, it seems to me that this is an unintended consequence of your efforts. The consumers wants and deserves a safe food supply. Supermarkets and retailers have liability and safety concerns. Are the current food safety guidelines not a problem for you? Would meeting specifications for new food safety legislation be a minor adjustment in your operations and budgets? Will small farmers on the bubble be able to carry the burden of any new cost alone? Should the cost for audits be some how shared? Ive heard very little discussion on this. Im curious and concerned. glenn@smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 12:26:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17461 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22011 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:38:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from tinman.oznet.ksu.edu (root@tinman.oznet.ksu.edu [129.130.75.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21931 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oz.oznet.ksu.edu (oz.oznet.ksu.edu [129.130.75.3]) by tinman.oznet.ksu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02839 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:37:34 -0500 Received: from OZ/SpoolDir by oz.oznet.ksu.edu (Mercury 1.44); 16 Aug 99 10:37:46 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by OZ (Mercury 1.44); 16 Aug 99 09:54:38 -0600 From: "Paula Ford" Organization: K-State Research and Extension To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:54:32 -0600 Subject: Travel scholarship available for NC Region educators to attend Small Farm Trade Show and Conference X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v3.01d) Message-ID: <5078AB07AF@oz.oznet.ksu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2240 0100,0100,0100Times New RomanTravel Scholarships Available to Attend the 7th National Small Farm Trade Show and Conference Manhattan, KS -- The North Central Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (NCR SARE) Professional Development Program (PDP) is offering travel scholarships to individuals and teams of agricultural educators, cooperative extension personnel, farmers/ranchers and researchers from across the North Central region to attend the 7th National Small Farm Trade Show and Conference in Columbia, Mo. on Nov. 5-6, 1999. The NCR SARE PDP will fund approximately 50 scholarships to the conference. Scholarships will provide funds to cover registration, travel expenses and a one year subscription to Small Farm Today Magazine (maximum $500). Agricultural information providers and extension educators are important resources for farmers seeking ways to increase their profitability. The scholarships to educators, information providers and farmers will expose them to the practical information and expertise of small farmers throughout the region who have successfully and profitably created alternative, sustainable farming systems. The theme for this years Small Farm Today Conference and Trade Show is Profitable Alternatives for Family Farms and will include talks and short courses designed to provide practical information on alternative paths to profitability. The keynote speaker is Don Bixby, director of the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy, an organization that promotes the conservation of rare and minor breeds of livestock in the U.S.A. Other featured speakers include Sandie Shores, author of Growing and Selling Fresh Cut Herbs; Ron Macher, farmer/author of Making Your Small Farm Profitable and editor of Small Farm Today Magazine; Ben Bartlett, farmer/educator and grazing expert from Michigan; and Lynn Byczynski, author of The Flower Farmer and Editor of Growing for Market. A complete schedule of events and further information about the conference can be obtained by calling Small Farm Today at 1-800-633- 2535 or writing to: The National Small Farm Trade Show and Conference, 3903 W. Ridge Trail Rd., Clark, MO 65243-9525. Arial CG TimesThis year marks the third year of the scholarship program, whichArial hasTimes New Roman provided funds to support the attendance of more than 150 people representing all 12 North Central region states in the Small Farm Trade Show and Conference. Past participants have rated this program as very useful to carrying out their work back home, and have appreciated the opportunity to network with others working throughout the region. Arial  Times New RomanTo apply; send letter of interest indicating why you would like to attend the conference, a budget estimate for travel (budgets less than $500 are encouraged), and a list of fellow team members (if applicable) to Paula B. Ford, NCR SARE PDP Coordinator, 4A Edwards Hall, Kansas State University, Manhattan, KS 66506-4810. Further information on the scholarships can be obtained from Paula Ford, NCR SARE PDP at 785.532.5328 (voice) 785.532.7615 (fax), pford@oz.oznet.ksu.edu or on the NCR SARE web page at http://www.sare.org/ncrsare. Applications should be received no later than Sept. 15, 1999 and selections will be made by Oct. 1, 1999. The North Central region includes Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, Wisconsin. 0100,0100,0100Scholarship recipients will be expected to submit a brief evaluation immediately after the event and a follow-up evaluation one year after the conference. The North Central region SARE Program is a federal competitive grants program funded by the USDA that provides support for projects and activities that explore environmentally sound, economically viable, socially responsible agriculture. Arial Paula B. Ford Regional Professional Development Program Coordinator North Central Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program 4A Edwards Hall Kansas State University Manhattan, KS 66506-4810 Phone - 785.532.5328 pford@oz.oznet.ksu.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 12:42:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA17765 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29420 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:54:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29354 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:54:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.186] (st-ppp12.hevanet.com [198.5.254.186]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA24069 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908161553.IAA24069@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:57:04 -0700 Subject: FW: Natural Controls for Plant Fungi From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2241 These items are forwarded strictly for the interest of list members. No comment, endorsement or any connection of any kind to the item is implied or intended. It is recommended that readers sign up for the free ARS news service through the addresses given at the bottom of the item as forwarding of them may soon cease. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Natural Controls for Plant Fungi Date: Mon, Aug 16, 1999, 7:27 AM STORY LEAD: New R&D Agreement Aims at Natural Controls for Plant Fungi ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Sarah Tarshis, (301) 504-1611, isst@ars-grin.gov August 16, 1999 ----------- Zosteric acid, a natural product made by a common seagrass, may lead to a nontoxic way to protect strawberries and other crops from fungal diseases. Scientists at the Agricultural Research Service--USDA's chief scientific arm--are exploring the acid as an environmentally safe alternative to chemical fungicides. Zosteric acid is found in eelgrass (Zostera marina L.) that grows in many saltwater bays and harbors. Under a new Cooperative Research and Development Agreement, ARS and PhycoGen, Inc., Portland, Me., will evaluate zosteric acid against fungi that cause fruit and crown rot of strawberries. Fungal pathogens rely on spores to infect a plant or fruit, but spores must first attach to a leaf or fruit surface and then germinate to cause infection. Unlike chemical fungicides, zosteric acid doesn't kill fungi; rather, it may act as a shield, preventing spores from attaching. This mode of action would be environmentally safe and would sidestep the risk of fungi developing chemical resistance. David Wedge of ARS' Natural Products Utilization Research Lab in Oxford, Miss., will conduct laboratory studies with strawberries and blueberries, and Barbara Smith with ARS in Poplarville, Miss., will also conduct greenhouse studies. Kenneth Curry of the University of Southern Mississippi will work with the ARS team to examine zosteric acid's antifungal features. Randall Alberte of PhycoGen will conduct lab studies on strawberries. Most research to develop fungicides is done by industry and focuses on major crops. But the ARS research will benefit small farmers who often grow so-called "minor crops." While grown on relatively few acres, minor crops are worth about $31 billion annually to U.S. growers and are economically vital to many rural communities and family farms. PhycoGen, which manufactures zosteric acid, will also cooperate with ARS to develop a product to protect stored seeds from fungi. The company is also exploring the acid as a marine antifouling agent for boat hulls and other applications. ---------- Scientific contact: David Wedge, ARS Natural Products Utilization Research Unit, National Center for Natural Product Research, University, MS 38677, phone (601) 232-1137, fax (601) 232-1035, dwedge@olemiss.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 16:55:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id QAA27904 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29970 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moose.uvm.edu (moose.uvm.edu [132.198.101.60]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29781 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from okapi.uvm.edu (okapi.uvm.edu [132.198.101.80]) by moose.uvm.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA76180; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:10:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (gharris@localhost) by okapi.uvm.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA122108; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:10:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: okapi.uvm.edu: gharris owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:10:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gwyneth E. Harris" X-Sender: gharris@okapi.uvm.edu To: Bargyla Rateaver cc: Phil Gillman , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: god and the ice age In-Reply-To: <37B4ED30.4E6FE9D2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Organization: University of Vermont MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2242 Sorry, but I can't take it any more! Bargyla, the only thing that is worthless on this list is people who discount and insult other people's views. Your religion is great for you, but, in case you hadn't noticed, it's not the only one out there, and it is insulting for you to continue to speak down to those who have different beliefs--scientific, religious or whatever else. I respect your right to hold views and express them, but when it comes to calling other people's ideas "worthless" and discounting them outright, I get all riled up. I'd rather drown than loose the right to think and feel what I believe--and I'm sure you feel the same way, so be nice and open your mind! They're just ideas. Maybe we'll have two or three more ice ages before your creator restores your eden--maybe your right, and it's coming right up, maybe we all will just die of old age and compost slowly. The point is, that whatever i personally think is right, I don't tell you that you're wrong. I've posted this to the whole list so that if others out there think I'm being unreasonable, they can let me know... I hope that this is all taken in the spirit in which it was written--annoyed yet honest. *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#* Gwyneth Harris Moretown, VT gharris@zoo.uvm.edu On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > All these ideas are really worthless, because they go contrary to what the > Creator has already said will happen. He will melt all the ice and snow as > part of the ways He will carry on His war of Armageddon, destroying the entire > manmade system of living, and restore Eden, human and nature perfection > forever on a perfect planet. > > Sure, scientists will say this is silly, but time will prove the Creator right > as always. All those people before the Flood thought they were pretty smart > too, but they all drowned. > > Phil Gillman wrote: > > > Another ice age is indeed very possible, as one of the most likely > > scenarios to result from global warming is the disruption of the North > > Atlantic Sink, the area off of Greenland where glacial runoff sinks into > > the deep, rather than remaining on the surface. Unfortunately, if the > > volume of this fresh water becomes too great, then the sink is > > disrupted. (So what's the big deal?) well, if the sink is disrupted, the > > surface currents are then inturn disrupted, and the surface current most > > likely to be effected is the Gulf Stream. The failure of the sink would > > most likely stop the flow of the gulf stream, and almost immediately > > plung europe into an ice age, which would in turn effect global weather > > systems drastically. This Appears to have happened in the past, often > > occuring suddenly, over the course of only 2 to 5 years altering global > > weather patterns. > > > > Many scientists are begining to see this as the most likely outcome of > > continued global warming (a sort of ecological rebalancing perhaps ;-) > > SO, grow organic, and rotate in grazing animals- for that seems to be > > the best way to survive a drought, AND reduce global warming at the same > > time- > > > > Phil Gillman > > Sustainable Systems Consulting and Marketing > > philmang@hotmail.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 18:54:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA06410 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23874 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:22:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23867 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17441 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:22:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp82.green.eri.net [207.90.124.146]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA65087 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000e01bee837$de133a80$927c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: Grain Combine - small Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:37:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2243 If you are interested in a small combine, just check your local dealers and ask them for a source. I live in Ohio and if you watch your sales you could probably pick up a combine for less than $3,000. Keep in mind what you are getting. Something very old and somewhat unreliable. Smitty. -----Original Message----- From: magedson To: 'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu' Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 6:28 PM Subject: Grain Combine - small >Sanet-ers, > >Does anyone have a source on small grain combines ? I'm not refering to >a thresher! >McCormick used to make one. I have heard there are some that you can >pull behind a >tractor. > >We have a CSA and raise chickens and sheep. A small harvester is needed >for about >20 acres of wheat, mung beans, etc. > >Thanks for any help, > >Lynn Magedson >Good Earth Organic Farm >Celeste Texas > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 19:12:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA09222 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04403 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:40:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from shelly.surfsouth.com (IDENT:root@shelly.surfsouth.com [205.139.60.100]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04395 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from surfsouth.com (02-ocil-017.dial.optilinkcomm.net [216.128.152.149]) by shelly.surfsouth.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23552 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:39:41 -0400 Message-ID: <37B892D5.2F799558@surfsouth.com> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:38:14 -0400 From: David Drexler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Substain. Ag." Subject: Paulownia vs Kudzu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2244 Greetings San-ers Last week I brought up the tree Paulownia and it was labled invasive and called a pest tree. As a member of the American Paulownia Association I raised the issue to compare it to Kudzu. Here is a reply by one member that I thought I would pass along regards david d. ---------------------------- I made a car trip to Southern Illinois during June. Took the back roads for several hundred miles. A college buddy was with me and has always been interested in my trees. But living in the Buckhead section of Atlanta does not allow him much room for a paulownia farm. Since he is fortunate enough to have a very large place, (six acres) I gave him six trees this summer to ease his pain. We both looked for wild paulownia along rural roads in Georgia, Kentucky, Tennesse, and Illinois. Guess what, the score was: One under an old tractor shed in Kentucky and one close to the Jefferson Davis Monument in Kentucky. (Duplicate of the George Washington in D.C. except one cubic foot bigger! Out in the sticks... At his true birth place. As you know, his family moved to Mississippi during his infancy. What a site!) Now here is the real kicker. One by a mail box behind the McDonald's in Buckhead, one growing out of a concrete crack under I-75 at the Buckhead exit, and six in my friends back yard. So there you have it. After riding over 600 miles, Upscale Atlanta wins! Kudzu my eye... -------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 19:26:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA10465 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12022 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:52:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11935 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.25] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:49:05 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:56:18 -0400 Subject: pasture poultry rations From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3017674578_372063_MIME_Part" Message-ID: <19990816224905364.AAA383@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.25]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2245 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3017674578_372063_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lately I see a lot of traffic regarding pasture poultry recipes. We are working directly with Jeff Maddox at Fertrell to get complete rations recipes. His telephone Number is 800-347-1566. Anyone can call him directly. He is very easy to talk with and eager to help us with our pasture poultry questions. If Jeff isn't there you can ask to speak to Ed Wilter or Ralph Stauffer. Here are the recipes I am using in my broilers, layers and turkeys. It's okay to substitute things, since some folks will not have specific ingredients available in their areas. It is important however, to work with a knowledgeable feed mixer, to make sure your substitute ingredients will work. Leave out the kelp and probiotics if not available in your area. You probably won't see a significant difference in performance. pasture broilers STARTER 20% protein Per Ton: ground shelled corn 500 cracked shelled corn 500 ground roasted soybeans 600 (must be roasted, otherwise toxic) oats or spelt or wheat 200 (don't have to be crimped, feed whole)(can also use wheat middlings) Sealac or other fishmeal 75 Nutribalancer 60 Aragonite (Fertrell) 25 (or use feeding limestone or ground oyster shell) Kelp Meal 15 Fertrell or Fastrack Probiotic 2.5 Pasture Broiler GROWER 18% protein (its okay to use this as a broiler starter, too) PER TON Ground Corn 700 Cracked Corn 700 Soy Bean Meal 450 Sealac or fishmeal 50 Aragonite 25 (can also use feeding limestone or ground oyster shell) Nutribalancer 60 (if not available in your area work with your feed meal to develop a substitute vitamin mineral pack plus di-calcium phosphate and salt) Soy Bean Oil 25 Kelp Meal 10 (if not available,leave it out) Probiotic 2.5 (If not available,leave it out) Pasture LAYERS 16% protein Cracked corn 500 Ground corn 500 ground roasted soybeans 600 Oats or wheat 200 (feed whole, don't have to be crimped) Nutribalancer 60 Aragonite 140 (or use feeding limestone or ground oyster shell) Kelp meal 15.5 Fertrell probiotic 2.5 Turkey STARTER 28% protein cracked corn 400 soy meal 400 ground roasted soybeans 500 Sealac or fishmeal 100 Spelt or oats 500 (First few days they won't eat some whole oats, that's okay) Dynafoss or DiCal 8 Aragonite 15 (or use feeding limestone or ground oyster shell) Nutribalancer 80 (or mix your own) Thanks Andy Lee Good Earth Farm School 1702 Mountain View Road Buena Vista, Virginia 24416 Phone and Fax: 540-261-8775 goodearth@rockbridge.net --MS_Mac_OE_3017674578_372063_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable pasture poultry rations Lately I see a lot of traffic regarding pasture poultry recipes. We are= working directly
    with Jeff Maddox at Fertrell to get complete rations recipes. His telephone=
    Number is 800-347-1566. Anyone can call him directly.
    He is very easy to talk with and eager to help us with our pasture poultry<= BR> questions. If Jeff isn't there you can ask to speak to Ed Wilter or Ralph Stauffer.

    Here are the recipes I am using in my broilers, layers and turkeys. It's okay to substitute things, since some folks will not have specific
    ingredients available in their areas. It is important however, to work with=
    a knowledgeable feed mixer, to make sure your substitute ingredients will work. Leave out the kelp and probiotics if not available in your area.
    You probably won't see a significant difference in performance.

    pasture broilers STARTER 20% protein
    Per Ton:
    ground shelled corn          &= nbsp;500
    cracked shelled corn          = 500
    ground roasted soybeans       600 (must be ro= asted, otherwise toxic)
    oats or spelt or wheat        200 (don't= have to be crimped, feed whole)(can
    also use wheat middlings)
    Sealac or other fishmeal       75
    Nutribalancer           &= nbsp;            = ; 60
    Aragonite (Fertrell)          =      25 (or use feeding limestone or ground
    oyster shell)
    Kelp Meal            = ;            &nb= sp;      15
    Fertrell or Fastrack Probiotic 2.5


    Pasture Broiler GROWER 18% protein (its okay to use this as a broiler
    starter, too)
    PER TON
    Ground Corn           &nb= sp;         700
    Cracked Corn           &n= bsp;        700
    Soy Bean Meal           &= nbsp;       450
    Sealac or fishmeal          &n= bsp;    50
    Aragonite            = ;            25 = (can also use feeding limestone or
    ground oyster shell)
    Nutribalancer           &= nbsp;        60 (if not available in= your area work with
    your feed meal to develop a
    substitute vitamin mineral pack plus di-calcium phosphate and salt)
    Soy Bean Oil           &n= bsp;         25
    Kelp Meal            = ;            10 = (if not available,leave it out)
    Probiotic            = ;            &nb= sp;2.5 (If not available,leave it out)


    Pasture LAYERS 16% protein
    Cracked corn           &n= bsp;        500
    Ground corn           &nb= sp;         500
    ground roasted soybeans         600=
    Oats or wheat           &= nbsp;       200 (feed whole, don't have t= o be crimped)
    Nutribalancer           &= nbsp;        60
    Aragonite            = ;           140 (or u= se feeding limestone or ground
    oyster shell)
    Kelp meal            = ;            15.= 5
    Fertrell probiotic          &n= bsp;     2.5


    Turkey STARTER 28% protein
    cracked corn           &n= bsp;        400
    soy meal            =             400<= BR> ground roasted soybeans         500=
    Sealac or fishmeal          &n= bsp;   100
    Spelt or oats           &= nbsp;       500 (First few days they won'= t eat some
    whole oats, that's okay)
    Dynafoss or DiCal          &nb= sp;      8
    Aragonite            = ;            15 = (or use feeding limestone or ground
    oyster shell)
    Nutribalancer           &= nbsp;        80 (or mix your own)



    Thanks

    Andy Lee
    Good Earth Farm School
    1702 Mountain View Road
    Buena Vista, Virginia 24416
    Phone and Fax: 540-261-8775
    goodearth@rockbridge.net

    --MS_Mac_OE_3017674578_372063_MIME_Part-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 20:13:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17276 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:13:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15107 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:44:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nyct.net (bsd4.nyct.net [204.141.86.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15099 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (ppp64.nyct.net [207.198.184.64]) by nyct.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA22928 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:45:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sharon@nyct.net) Message-ID: <37B8A1C6.164@nyct.net> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:41:58 -0400 From: Sharon Reply-To: sharon@nyct.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Paulownia vs kudzu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2246 Lots of young paulownia trees growing in the wild in the New Jersey Palisades along the Hudson River. They are found down along the banks of the river as well as on the top of the rock outcrop several hundred feet above. The huge leaves of the young trees make them very visible. If Norway Maples are cited to shade out native species, this one must be so much more worrisome. Was told that they established a foothold here in the NY Harbor area because the silk floss of the seed capsules was used as a packing material in crates coming in from China. Might be anecdotal. Interestingly enough there are a few adult trees whose bloom I enjoy in a park on the NY side of the river, and I have not seen seedlings or young trees in the woodland areas there. Wonder if they are weeded out by the Parks Dept. as part of their native species initiatives or if conditions are not as much to the trees liking. Sharon To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 20:28:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17717 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26694 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26683 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17267 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA05142 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:01:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:01:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Paulownia vs Kudzu In-Reply-To: <37B892D5.2F799558@surfsouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2247 On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, David Drexler wrote: > Last week I brought up the tree Paulownia and it was labled invasive and > called a pest tree. > > As a member of the American Paulownia Association I raised the issue to > compare it to Kudzu. Paulownia couldn't be worse than wild mulberry which extends runners deep underground everywhere, like persimmon and wild plum. I posted this to a permaculture list: - I am interested in propagating KUDZU to plant in certain areas that can benefit from its role as a nitrogen fixer and in other areas where it can engulf and shade out other weeds (Bermuda grass and Johnson grass). Upon harvest it could be used as livestock feed, mulch and as an ingredient in compost.Somehow I am convinced I can keep it in check. If I can control Bermuda, Johnson grass, crabgrass and pigweed I should be successful with kudzu. Bamboo, no way to control it permanently (if its growing from a neighbors land into your fertile tilled fields). Question: What is the best way to propagate it? tuber, runner, vine (layered), seed? Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From lonrom@hevanet.com Mon Aug 16 20:31:01 1999 Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17746 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.156] (ke-ppp06.hevanet.com [198.5.254.156]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05489; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908170019.RAA05489@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:19:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Paulownia vs Kudzu From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2248 Summer rainfall is definitely a factor in kudzu spread - I have seen it here in Oregon where summer is dry with low humidty (surprise!) and it makes a fairly large plant, but never spreads. This after watching it for at least 5 years. The Himalaya blackberry fills that "niche" as a really noxious invader. Well, noxious except for the very tasty fruit. ---------- >From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: Paulownia vs Kudzu >Date: Mon, Aug 16, 1999, 5:01 PM > > > > >On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, David Drexler wrote: > >> Last week I brought up the tree Paulownia and it was labled invasive and >> called a pest tree. >> >> As a member of the American Paulownia Association I raised the issue to >> compare it to Kudzu. > >Paulownia couldn't be worse than wild mulberry which extends runners >deep underground everywhere, like persimmon and wild plum. > >I posted this to a permaculture list: >- >I am interested in propagating KUDZU to plant in certain areas >that can benefit from its role as a nitrogen fixer and in other areas >where it can engulf and shade out other weeds (Bermuda grass and Johnson >grass). Upon harvest it could be used as livestock feed, mulch and as >an ingredient in compost.Somehow I am convinced I can keep it in check. >If I can control Bermuda, Johnson grass, crabgrass and pigweed I should be >successful with kudzu. Bamboo, no way to control it permanently >(if its growing from a neighbors land into your fertile tilled fields). > >Question: What is the best way to propagate it? >tuber, runner, vine (layered), seed? > >Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm >london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net >http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech >EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 20:48:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA17998 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08279 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:20:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08230 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.156] (ke-ppp06.hevanet.com [198.5.254.156]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05489; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908170019.RAA05489@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:19:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Paulownia vs Kudzu From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." CC: SANET Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2249 Summer rainfall is definitely a factor in kudzu spread - I have seen it here in Oregon where summer is dry with low humidty (surprise!) and it makes a fairly large plant, but never spreads. This after watching it for at least 5 years. The Himalaya blackberry fills that "niche" as a really noxious invader. Well, noxious except for the very tasty fruit. ---------- >From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: Paulownia vs Kudzu >Date: Mon, Aug 16, 1999, 5:01 PM > > > > >On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, David Drexler wrote: > >> Last week I brought up the tree Paulownia and it was labled invasive and >> called a pest tree. >> >> As a member of the American Paulownia Association I raised the issue to >> compare it to Kudzu. > >Paulownia couldn't be worse than wild mulberry which extends runners >deep underground everywhere, like persimmon and wild plum. > >I posted this to a permaculture list: >- >I am interested in propagating KUDZU to plant in certain areas >that can benefit from its role as a nitrogen fixer and in other areas >where it can engulf and shade out other weeds (Bermuda grass and Johnson >grass). Upon harvest it could be used as livestock feed, mulch and as >an ingredient in compost.Somehow I am convinced I can keep it in check. >If I can control Bermuda, Johnson grass, crabgrass and pigweed I should be >successful with kudzu. Bamboo, no way to control it permanently >(if its growing from a neighbors land into your fertile tilled fields). > >Question: What is the best way to propagate it? >tuber, runner, vine (layered), seed? > >Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm >london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net >http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech >EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 21:20:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA18462 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:20:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23294 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:39:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23202 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-13-31.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.223]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA21084; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:30:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199908170030.TAA21084@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Patricia Foreman" , "sanet" Subject: Re: pasture poultry rations Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:38:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2250 Do you have the vitamin/mineral levels in this Nutribalancer? Thanks, Greg Gunthorp ---------- From: Patricia Foreman To: sanet Subject: pasture poultry rations Date: Monday, August 16, 1999 5:56 PM Lately I see a lot of traffic regarding pasture poultry recipes. We are working directly with Jeff Maddox at Fertrell to get complete rations recipes. His telephone Number is 800-347-1566. Anyone can call him directly. He is very easy to talk with and eager to help us with our pasture poultry questions. If Jeff isn't there you can ask to speak to Ed Wilter or Ralph Stauffer. Here are the recipes I am using in my broilers, layers and turkeys. It's okay to substitute things, since some folks will not have specific ingredients available in their areas. It is important however, to work with a knowledgeable feed mixer, to make sure your substitute ingredients will work. Leave out the kelp and probiotics if not available in your area. You probably won't see a significant difference in performance. pasture broilers STARTER 20% protein Per Ton: ground shelled corn 500 cracked shelled corn 500 ground roasted soybeans 600 (must be roasted, otherwise toxic) oats or spelt or wheat 200 (don't have to be crimped, feed whole)(can also use wheat middlings) Sealac or other fishmeal 75 Nutribalancer 60 Aragonite (Fertrell) 25 (or use feeding limestone or ground oyster shell) Kelp Meal 15 Fertrell or Fastrack Probiotic 2.5 Pasture Broiler GROWER 18% protein (its okay to use this as a broiler starter, too) PER TON Ground Corn 700 Cracked Corn 700 Soy Bean Meal 450 Sealac or fishmeal 50 Aragonite 25 (can also use feeding limestone or ground oyster shell) Nutribalancer 60 (if not available in your area work with your feed meal to develop a substitute vitamin mineral pack plus di-calcium phosphate and salt) Soy Bean Oil 25 Kelp Meal 10 (if not available,leave it out) Probiotic 2.5 (If not available,leave it out) Pasture LAYERS 16% protein Cracked corn 500 Ground corn 500 ground roasted soybeans 600 Oats or wheat 200 (feed whole, don't have to be crimped) Nutribalancer 60 Aragonite 140 (or use feeding limestone or ground oyster shell) Kelp meal 15.5 Fertrell probiotic 2.5 Turkey STARTER 28% protein cracked corn 400 soy meal 400 ground roasted soybeans 500 Sealac or fishmeal 100 Spelt or oats 500 (First few days they won't eat some whole oats, that's okay) Dynafoss or DiCal 8 Aragonite 15 (or use feeding limestone or ground oyster shell) Nutribalancer 80 (or mix your own) Thanks Andy Lee Good Earth Farm School 1702 Mountain View Road Buena Vista, Virginia 24416 Phone and Fax: 540-261-8775 goodearth@rockbridge.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 22:38:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA21970 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14793 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14723 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA19935; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA06675; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:57:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:57:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "Lon J. Rombough" cc: SANET Subject: Re: Paulownia vs Kudzu In-Reply-To: <199908170019.RAA05489@hevanet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2251 On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, Lon J. Rombough wrote: > Summer rainfall is definitely a factor in kudzu spread - I have seen it here > in Oregon where summer is dry with low humidty (surprise!) and it makes a > fairly large plant, but never spreads. This after watching it for at least That was the exact reply I was hoping to get. :-) I could plant it in open fields subject to drying in summer, no trees nearby to "hang out in". Lots of compost, weed eradication and harvestable tuber, not to mention nitrogen fixing plus soil tilth improvement from shading and cooling by the kudzu. I wonder if it could co-exist with lespedeza, also a very vigorous grower, and drought resistant. Help hold back the next ice age, plant more kudzu. I wonder of any pollinators benefit from the deliciously fragrant kudzu blooms? > 5 years. The Himalaya blackberry fills that "niche" as a really noxious > invader. Well, noxious except for the very tasty fruit. Any kin to the common wild blackberry we have here in the Eastern US? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 16 23:06:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA23413 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11468 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:40:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11349 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.90] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:36:17 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:43:32 -0400 Subject: Pasture Poultry Recipes From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990817023617947.AAA133@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.90]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2252 Some folks are having difficulty finding Fertrell products. Call Fertrell at 1-800-347-1566 to find a dealer in your area. If you have to mix a substitute here are the ingredients in Poultry Nutri-Balancer , Aragonite and Fertrell probiotics. Fertrell Poultry Nutri-Balancer Guaranteed Analysis calcium, not more than13.5% calcium, not less than 12.5% salt 12.5% phosphorus 11% selenium 0027% vitamin A 120,000 iu/lb. vitamin D3 40,000 iu/lb. vitamin E 300 iu/lb. ingredients: dicalcium phosphate, salt, kelp meal, sodium selenite, Vitamin A supplement, Vitamin D3 supplemnet, Vitamin E supplement, di-Methionine, Choline, Menadione, d-Pantothenic Acid, Niacin, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine, Thiamine, vitamin B12, Biotin, Folic Acid, Polysaccharide Complexes of Iron, Manganese, Zinc, Copper and Cobolt. Fertrell Aragonite percent by weight CaCO3 min. 94.00 max. 97.00 Available Calcium 37.00 Fe2 03 0.025 A12 03 0.15 MgCO3 1.50 S03 0.20 NaCL 1.25 SrO 1.25 Si02 0.88 Fertrell Direct Fed Microbials guaranteed analysis: 40 billion colony forming units in a 3# bag, mix one bag per ton of finished feed. Ingredients: yeast culture (Diamond V), Calcium Carbonate, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation product, Bacillus Licheniformis, Bacillus Subtilis, Lactobacillus Lactis, Streptococcus Faecium, (Dried Aspergillis Oryzae Fermentation Extract) Thank You, Andy Lee Good Earth Farm School Buena Vista, Virginia In trying to build a better mousetrap, we sometimes create a much better mouse. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 01:27:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA28676 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08278 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:53:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08100 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09027 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006a01bee3a4$b04053a0$754b2e9c@oemcomputer> References: <199908102210.SAA04406@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> <37B0DF34.73B54DB9@home.com> <006a01bee3a4$b04053a0$754b2e9c@oemcomputer> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:21:00 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: Chem/GE trespass law Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2253 Howdy, all-- Julie M. asked: >Can anyone direct me to federal or state statute or caselaw (website maybe?) >regarding chemical/GE trespass by a conventional farm to a neighboring >organic farm? We are currently approaching our township, as they seem to be >pretty indiscriminate about cutting back shrubbery, trees, etc. along >roadsides that act as buffer zones between our farm & conventional >neighbors. > >I understand that there is law that exists which makes the farmer >responsible to keep his inputs ON HIS OWN FARM, and liable for loss of >certification status & market of a neighbors crop should contamination >occur, but need concrete citations. I've asked for the township's assistance >to keep these "fences" in tact as much as possible, without, creating road >hazards of course. I also understand there is an organic agriculture law >institute in Rosemont, PA, who I've contacted & am waiting to receive >response. Any other thoughts most welcome. Julie, you might try contacting Oregon Tilth: organic@tilth.org and inquiring of their director of legal affairs, Margaret Clark. She has interest in a variety of intellectual property issues that relate to organics. Not sure whether this is one of them...but might be worth a try, for statutory or caselaw leads if nothing else. Tilth may be taking the lead on this. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before. --Steven Wright To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 01:27:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA28677 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08223 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:53:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08142 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09065 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:37:47 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: E. coli, Ohio Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2254 Howdy, all-- Again, I find it fascinating how deeply satisfying it is for people to be able to trace these infections back to food, and particularly "perhaps to a cabbage wholesaler or grower." Not, please note, to somebody at KFC who didn't wash her/his hands properly after diapering the toddler who picked it up from another kid at daycare. Or from a public toilet splashing up water upon flushing. Or other imaginable sources. I'd love us to have a discussion here on SANET of this. Namely, in an age where immune systems are stressed till they can scarcely function, where people and microbes intermingle at a rate unparalleled in human history, and where indiscriminate antibiotic and disinfectant use has created lines of super-bugs...folks appear to need to have a farmer to hang for infectious outbreaks. Or am I being defensive? I'm not saying food cannot be a vector of disease. I have no doubt that some farmers have a poor understanding of the mechanisms of infection and disease. Just observing what looks to me like a pattern in many of these stories. I've seen these infections referred to "food-borne illness" even when there is no evidence that the infected people got it from food at all. And that this mechanistic explanation of infections leaves out a huge system-context of interlocking issues. Thoughts? peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ E. COLI INFECTIONS, SOURCE IDENTIFIED - USA (0HIO) ************************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 14:02:42 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: The Cincinnati Post, 14 Aug 1999 [edited] Coleslaw at four Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants carried the _E. coli_ bacteria that sickened 11 people in Hamilton, Clermont and Butler counties. A total 30 cases of _E. coli_ have been reported in Southwest Ohio. Health officials do not expect to identify another single source to link the remaining 19 cases. The coleslaw - possibly tainted as a result of poorly washed cabbage - was prepared at each restaurant and served between July 5-27. KFC executives said Friday they changed procedures July 30 after learning one of the restaurants could be a potential source of the bacteria. The Food and Drug Administration started an investigation Friday to try to trace back the _E. coli_ source, perhaps to a cabbage wholesaler or grower. "It is safe to eat our coleslaw," said Jonathan Blum, KFC senior vice president of public affairs. "The health department has fully inspected our restaurants and tested our coleslaw. They have given us a clean bill of health." The four affected KFC outlets were in Anderson Township, Batavia, Fairfield and Milford. No other KFC restaurants are involved. "No recent cases have been linked to KFC," said Dr. Janet Rickabaugh, Clermont County health commissioner. The time range from eating food tainted by _E. coli_ and becoming ill ranges from two to 10 days. All of the _E. coli_ victims are recovered or recovering, Dr. Rickabaugh said. The link of the bacteria to KFC began when the same pattern of _E. coli_ was identified in 11 people through testing at the Ohio Department of Health. "That one pattern in the 11 cases has not been seen in Ohio before," Dr. Rickabaugh said. Interviews with the victims by local health officials and investigators from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention uncovered the transmission by coleslaw, first at the Milford KFC, then at the others. A health inspection revealed "the practice of preparing the cabbage in the stores was not sufficient," Dr. Rickabaugh said. Until July 30, each restaurant prepared its own coleslaw, including chopping the cabbage and carrots and mixing the dressing. Now, Blum said, all Ohio Valley KFC outlets purchase prepackaged chopped slaw mix. "All these things together have led the FDA to believe that a trace-back of ingredients is a worthwhile task," Dr. Rickabaugh said. "Therefore, a trace is ensuing with the hope to find a link to a specific ingredient." The number of people stricken with _E. coli_ since mid-June are 12 in Hamilton County (three KFC customers), eight in Clermont County (five KFC-connected), seven in Butler County (3 KFC- related), two in Warren County and one in Brown County. _E. coli_ causes diarrhea, abdominal cramps and nausea and can lead to kidney failure in infants and elderly people. The strain of the bacteria found here - _E. coli_ O157 - is the one that first appeared in 1993 in the Northwest. In that outbreak, 300 people were stricken after eating hamburgers from the Jack in the Box chain. [Byline: Laurel Campbell, Post staff reporter] \ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As crude a weapon as the cave man's club, the chemical barrage has been hurled against the fabric of life. --Rachel Carson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 01:29:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA28979 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08228 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:53:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08125 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:53:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09047 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:22:23 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Sorgum ergot movement Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2255 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you plant disease watchers. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLAVICEPS AFRICANA, FIRST REPORT - INDIA **************************************** A ProMED-mail post Date: Jul 18 19:42:43 1999 From: ProMED-mail Source: EPPO Report-9906, item 99/097 First report of Claviceps africana in India The ergot of sorghum, _Claviceps africana_, has recently spread to the Americas and Australia (see EPPO RS 97/031, 97/073, 97/119, 98/114). In Asia, its presence was so far only reported in Japan, Thailand and Yemen. In India, another fungus _Claviceps sorghi_ is present and considered as endemic. The anamorph of _C. sorghi_ (_Sphacelia sorghi_) is morphologically similar to that of _C. africana_. Five isolates of sorghum ergot from several locations in southern India had previously been identified as _C. sorghi_. But recently, further studies have demonstrated that 2 of them (from Andhra Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh) were in fact _C. africana_. This finding suggests that the data published in recent years in India on sorghum ergot disease (thought to be caused only by _C. sorghi_) may have to be revised, as well as the future strategies to control the disease. This is the first report of _C. africana_ in India. Source: Bogo, A.; Mantle, P.G. (1999) Claviceps africana discovered in India. Plant Disease, 83(1), p 79. [_Claviceps sorghi_, first observed in India in 1915, has been considered the only pathogen that causes sorghum ergot disease in India. The disease was subsequently observed in Kenya in 1924, spreading to many other countries in Africa. Characterization of African isolates (size and morphology of sclerotia, characteristics of the teleomorph [sexual stage] of the fungus, and the presence of dihydroergosine which is unique to the African pathogen, showed that it was a new species, _C. africana_. Unlike _C. sorghi_ which produces primary conidia, _C. africana_ produces secondary and tertiary conidia, thus providing a massive inoculative potential for spread to sorghum and other related species, and pearl millet. Its spread across large land masses in Africa, Asia, and the Americas is more than likely associated with its capacity to produce conidia in an iterative manner. _C. sorghi_ is predominately localized to India, Myanmar, Japan, Thailand, the Philippines, and possibly Taiwan, whereas _C. africana_ is present in Africa, the Americas, India, Australia, and perhaps elsewhere. RAPD analyses of _C. africana_ isolates from Australia, India, Bolivia and the USA showed that the Australian and Indian isolates are related but different from those from North and South America. Recent isolates of the sorghum ergot pathogen in India were found to be predominantly _C. africana_. In India, _C. sorghi_ is being displaced by the more aggressive _C. africana_, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to find sclerotia of _C. sorghi_. Circumstances surrounding the arrival of _C. africana_ in India are not known, but unwitting importation of seedlots containing _C. africana_-infected seed and sclerotia is an obvious possibility. For comprehensive information about sorghum ergot, see the following reference: Bandyopadhyay et al., 1998, Ergot: a new disease that threat to sorghum in the Americas and Australia. Plant Disease 82:356-367. Information can also be obtained from a website: . - Mod.DH] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the end, they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, "Make us your slaves, but feed us." -Dostoevsky To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 01:34:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA29057 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16345 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:04:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16334 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:04:46 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:04:10 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:04:10 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.75] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0041013c ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:04:02 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990816235612.007be100@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:56:12 -0500 To: Subject: Re: Paulownia vs Kudzu In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2256 Before you plant kudzu please, please take a drive along I-20 between Birmingham and Atlanta to see what a non-native plant can do to the enironment. Whether it is purple loosestrife in Wisconsin or multiflora rose in Iowa the results are the same. Once you open that Pandora's box, you cannot change your mind and your neighbors will not even have a say in the havoc you can bring to bear on their land. I would love to get ahold of the jerk who introduced multiflora rose to Iowa to replace cattle fences. Even if you think you can control the plant, remember there are bird and other seed carriers that you cannot control. Mike Miller At 21:58 16-08-99 -0600, you wrote: > > > >On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, Lon J. Rombough wrote: >> Summer rainfall is definitely a factor in kudzu spread - I have seen it here >> in Oregon where summer is dry with low humidty (surprise!) and it makes a >> fairly large plant, but never spreads. This after watching it for at least > >That was the exact reply I was hoping to get. :-) >I could plant it in open fields subject to drying in summer, no trees >nearby to "hang out in". Lots of compost, weed eradication and harvestable >tuber, not to mention nitrogen fixing plus soil tilth improvement from >shading and cooling by the kudzu. I wonder if it could co-exist with >lespedeza, also a very vigorous grower, and drought resistant. > >Help hold back the next ice age, plant more kudzu. I wonder of any >pollinators benefit from the deliciously fragrant kudzu blooms? > >> 5 years. The Himalaya blackberry fills that "niche" as a really noxious >> invader. Well, noxious except for the very tasty fruit. > > >Any kin to the common wild blackberry we have here in the Eastern US? > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 06:26:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id GAA12491 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 06:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13851 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:37:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA13796 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [139.142.112.139] [139.142.112.139] by mail.islandnet.com with esmtp id m11GfQk-0006crC for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:09:21 -0700 Subject: Re: god and the ice age From: "Beth Lischeron" To: "Gwyneth E. Harris" , Bargyla Rateaver CC: Phil Gillman , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2257 Thank you Gwyneth - I too am tired of this insulting and inappropriate commentary and would be pleased if we could get onto more useful, mutually respectful turf. Frankly, this nonsense makes me want to vomit. Beth ---------- >From: "Gwyneth E. Harris" >To: Bargyla Rateaver >Cc: Phil Gillman , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: god and the ice age >Date: Aug 16, 1999, 1:10 PM > > Sorry, but I can't take it any more! Bargyla, the only thing that is > worthless on this list is people who discount and insult other people's > views. Your religion is great for you, but, in case you hadn't noticed, > it's not the only one out there, and it is insulting for you to continue > to speak down to those who have different beliefs--scientific, religious > or whatever else. I respect your right to hold views and express them, > but when it comes to calling other people's ideas "worthless" and > discounting them outright, I get all riled up. I'd rather drown than > loose the right to think and feel what I believe--and I'm sure you feel > the same way, so be nice and open your mind! They're just ideas. Maybe > we'll have two or three more ice ages before your creator restores your > eden--maybe your right, and it's coming right up, maybe we all will just > die of old age and compost slowly. The point is, that whatever i > personally think is right, I don't tell you that you're wrong. > > I've posted this to the whole list so that if others out there think I'm > being unreasonable, they can let me know... I hope that this is all taken > in the spirit in which it was written--annoyed yet honest. > *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#* > Gwyneth Harris > Moretown, VT > gharris@zoo.uvm.edu > > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > >> All these ideas are really worthless, because they go contrary to what the >> Creator has already said will happen. He will melt all the ice and snow as >> part of the ways He will carry on His war of Armageddon, destroying the entire >> manmade system of living, and restore Eden, human and nature perfection >> forever on a perfect planet. >> >> Sure, scientists will say this is silly, but time will prove the Creator right >> as always. All those people before the Flood thought they were pretty smart >> too, but they all drowned. >> >> Phil Gillman wrote: >> >> > Another ice age is indeed very possible, as one of the most likely >> > scenarios to result from global warming is the disruption of the North >> > Atlantic Sink, the area off of Greenland where glacial runoff sinks into >> > the deep, rather than remaining on the surface. Unfortunately, if the >> > volume of this fresh water becomes too great, then the sink is >> > disrupted. (So what's the big deal?) well, if the sink is disrupted, the >> > surface currents are then inturn disrupted, and the surface current most >> > likely to be effected is the Gulf Stream. The failure of the sink would >> > most likely stop the flow of the gulf stream, and almost immediately >> > plung europe into an ice age, which would in turn effect global weather >> > systems drastically. This Appears to have happened in the past, often >> > occuring suddenly, over the course of only 2 to 5 years altering global >> > weather patterns. >> > >> > Many scientists are begining to see this as the most likely outcome of >> > continued global warming (a sort of ecological rebalancing perhaps ;-) >> > SO, grow organic, and rotate in grazing animals- for that seems to be >> > the best way to survive a drought, AND reduce global warming at the same >> > time- >> > >> > Phil Gillman >> > Sustainable Systems Consulting and Marketing >> > philmang@hotmail.com >> > >> > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> > >> > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> >> >> >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >> > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 08:20:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA13706 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA25213 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:25:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25178 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27505 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp87.green.eri.net [207.90.124.151]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA10651 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007301bee8a5$26210a60$977c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Fw: Paulownia trees Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:39:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2258 Hi all, Sorry if this was covered earlier. I was wondering how one might get seed or seedlings of these trees. I live in Ohio. Anyone know? Thanks, Paul -----Original Message----- From: David Drexler To: mike richardson Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:07 PM Subject: Re: Paulownia trees >Greetings Mike > >Nice post about Paulownia. Accurate and brief. >I would like to add some facts that I have researched and learned from >experience about these trees. >Wood workers tell me fast grown "works and mills" as good as slow grown >The wood is easily air dried. >Can be kiln dried extremely fast with out damage. >Does not wrap, crack, or split. >Is extremely dimensionally stable with changes in humidity. >Is fire resistant and is a very good insulator of heat and electricity >Is rot resistant. ( I have run no test on this but by observation it looks >equal to above ground cca treatment.) >While being extremely light it does have an excellent strength to weight >ratio. >The market for this wood will rapidly develop in the US once a supply is >available. The market to the orient is a myth. China has 5 million acre now >and can ship to the orient a lot cheaper than from the US. By some estimates >there are 50 to 100,000 acres growing in US plantations now. Most under 5 >years of age. I have no doubt that "when the wood is available they will >come." This is different than exotics of past particular in the processing. >The lumber industry and mills already exist. Besides a small bandsaw operator >can saw and dry this lumber. Of course a large mill could devour the whole >100,000 acres in a winter. >Look again at the above qualities and the uses are many. >Moldings, Picture frames, boat framing (already being done), veneers, >furniture making, outdoor decks without chemicals!!! Hey the Chinese even >make shoes of them. >I am a grower and consultant and will be offering the trees for sale next >spring. Hope the group doesn't mind a little plug. > > > >Thanks >David D. > > >mike richardson wrote: > >> After having been introduced in this country many years ago as an >> ornamental, it was found that Japan represented a great market for >> paulownia. They use the wood for many items including small boxes and >> traditional wedding gifts and furniture. In the early 80's there was a >> boom in demand and the trees started being cut by the hundreds of >> thousands, even to the point that old ornamentals were being harvested >> by homeowners, or stolen from them. The boom market eventually crashed >> for awhile and the "paulownia fever" abated some. However, there is >> still a strong market for the trees and they actually exceed $$ value >> for veneer grade red oak, white oak, and walnut per mbf. I am a little >> concerned about the desire to rush the growth of these trees. I seem to >> remember hearing that the faster the tree grew the lower the value. >> Just FYI. >> >> Son of Richard >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 08:32:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA14179 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07500 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07441 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from the-network-asy-25.rutgers.edu (the-network-asy-25.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.25]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA29954; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:32:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: the-network-asy-25.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.25] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <37B971EB.5D0B@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:30:03 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sgroff@epix.net CC: sanet Subject: Re: Which legume cover crop? References: <37B76F47.CC9F6F4B@epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2259 Steve Groff wrote: > > Sanet, > I want to plant a legume cover in some of my small grain fields, that > were harvested this summer, in preparation for no till planting sweet > corn in the spring. I already planted a soybean/spring oats mix for the > same purpose. I was thinking that field peas might be a better cover due > to more N contribution. I'll plant vetch later. Any other ideas or > suggestions? Steve, We have the "Soil Builder" mix of 4 legumes (Bell Beans, Magnus Peas, Lana Woolypod Vetch, Purple Vetch) along with Cayuse Oats "to stabilize the soil, and to nurse and scaffold the vetches." This is in NJ, I think you are in a similar climatic zone. We got the blend from Peaceful Valley Farm Supply. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 09:46:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA15605 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22598 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:59:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web606.mail.yahoo.com (web606.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.170]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22554 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990817125806.12105.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web606.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:58:06 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:58:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Paulownia To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2260 Good Morning SANETeers, I've been following the Paulownia thread and have to smile at the ability for our discussions to take on wonderful detail about relatively obscure topics. But now I have to jump in and put in my two cents for the Paulownia. In Philadelphia is a beautiful fountain set in a ring of trees, known as Logan's Circle. It's between the art museum and city hall. These huge trees have the most beautiful lavendar flowers in the spring. I was told these were Pawlonia (sic) trees. I tried to look up the tree under that spelling and found nothing. So obviously they must be Paulownia trees. Now maybe its the fountain, but these trees seem almost magical. Very graceful and so very beautiful. kate smith Philadelphia _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 10:37:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA16639 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22289 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:49:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22270 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA02689; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:14:17 GMT Message-ID: <37B95FF0.C1B52AF5@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:13:20 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: kudzu, etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2261 I believe that kudzu was introduce first as an erosion control plant by the old Soil Conservation Service (now Natural Resources Conservation Service). In that respect it did its job, but of course as we now know, it became quite a problem. However, an agronomy prof of mine also taught that, when controlled, it makes excellent animal fodder and can be grazed or hayed. He said it can support up to 4 animal units per acre, is highly nutritious, and very palatable to livestock. Possibly the best way to control the stuff is to plant it in a field that is surrounded by well traveled roads. When people have asked me for advice on killing kudzu, besides using 2,4-D or other chemical treatments, my first response is to suggest they put a fence around it and turn in cattle. Think about it, have you ever seen a pasture fence with kudzu climbing on it? I have seen cattle lean against a barbed wire fence to get at it. On the subject of multiflora rose - That was touted I believe by the Fish & Wildlife service, with help from SCS. It worked as advertised, but as has been stated, it could not be controlled due to birds. Over the years farmers have spent many millions trying to eradicate this persistant weed. Combinations of 2,4-D and diesel fuel, applied usually more than once, will do the trick. HOWEVER, I do not advise using diesel fuel due to the possibility of contaminating ground water. Roundup, Tordon, and Spike have also shown ability to kill it. I have also known farmers who have pulled larger bushes out of the ground with tractors, then chemically treated any regrowth. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 17 11:30:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA17976 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:30:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21206 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:36:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21092 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 4940 ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:34:28 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 1408; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:34:28 -0400 Message-Id: <17AUG99.11420450.0025.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:34:28 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Subject: another genetic eng. article X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2262 Here is another article from the GMO press gang.... ramblings on the GMO front and the zit that just doesn't seem to go away. ========== http://archives.theglobeandmail.com/ The Globe and Mail, Toronto, August 16, 1999, >From the Editorial Page A12 Fear of science and love of the land Biotechnology in agriculture is the key to having our cake and rain forests too The case of a Saskatchewan farmer battling Monsanto Co. about the use of genetically altered canola seeds and the chemical herbicide that goes with them will deepen suspicions among many people about biotechnology in agriculture. Genetically modified (GM) foods have precipitated opposition in Europe to the point that consumers are forcing supermarkets to certify that no GM foods exist within their stores. Attitudes in North America are less hostile, but the great potential of GM foods to increase productivity in agriculture could be threatened by public opinion in the absence of effective answers to broadly unfounded fears. Last month, the European Union rejected a ruling from the World Trade Organization requiring the EU to eliminate barriers to the import of North American beef that has been treated with growth hormones. There is no evidence that growth hormones in cows change the nature of beef consumed by humans, but Europeans exploit such fears to justify trade barriers that protect their own beef producers. The spectre of "Frankenstein foods" is raised in Europe to restrict imports of everything from steaks to tomatoes. The Canadian government fell prey to similarly inchoate fears and specific interests when it rejected the use of a hormone that increases milk production in dairy cows last year. In a Canadian supply-management system already plagued with overproduction of milk, higher productivity in dairy cows threatens the status quo. Because no evidence could be found that human health was at risk, Ottawa relied on claims that cow health might be affected, despite the absence of any such significant problems in the United States. General hostility to technologically grounded increases in food productivity also applies to irradiation, which kills rotting agents and prolongs the shelf life of many foods. The sound of "radiation" is enough, apparently, to scare many consumers away. The Europeans are considering a total ban on the use of antibiotics in animal feed on grounds that antibiotic residues may contribute to the growth of so-called superbugs that "use" low doses to become resistant. In fact, the Wall Street Journal reported that "EU officials concede that they lack clear scientific evidence to link the use of antibiotics in animal feed to growing antibiotic resistance in humans." Nevertheless the officials invoke a "precautionary principle" to give enormous benefit to any doubt in these cases. Productivity in agriculture is the cost. Dennis Avery of the Hudson Institute argues in the July issue of World Link Magazine that "neither population growth, urban sprawl nor global warming pose nearly as great a threat to the world's wildlands as the energetic plows of the low-yield farmers . . . Without the higher crop yields achieved with hybrid seeds, chemical fertilizers, irrigation and modern pest control, the world would already have plowed another 40 million square kilometres of wildlands to produce today's food supply." GM foods must be the source of another revolution in agricultural productivity if we are to prevent the loss of vastly more natural land. Fear of new technology fed by low-productivity agricultural interests operating behind high trade barriers threatens not only the supply, quality and affordability of food in coming years, but the global environment. It is not enough to decry public opposition to genetically altered foods and related innovations; rational doubts require convincing assurances from public and private authorities lest the growing power of science be sadly hobbled in expanding fields. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 15:29:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24840 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12792 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:25:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12652 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:25:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:28:12 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Gary Huber'" Subject: FW: local food in IA Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:28:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2263 Forwarding an example of work on a local food system in Iowa. From the author: ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16982 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:36:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16911 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ztm51-82.Zoetermeer.NL.net by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via ztm51-82.Zoetermeer.NL.net [195.108.245.247] with SMTP id UAA07978 (8.8.8/1.19); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:35:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908201835.UAA07978@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> From: "Frits v/d Laan" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:36:10 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: spray machines Reply-to: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net CC: ssteve@amauta.rcp.net.pe In-reply-to: <199908180501.BAA13864@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2264 Sharon I think your question will be better received in non sustainable listservers. > I'm trying to figure out the brand name of a backpack sprayer for > pesticides/insecticides etc. that is bright blue with orange top cap and > bottom . Frits v/d laan NL To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 15:39:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25033 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:39:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08336 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:20:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08320 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu ([157.182.7.97]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id NAA20920 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990820131751.006a816c@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlozier@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:17:51 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Lozier Subject: Current SA materials for wide general public Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2265 I'll be playing my harp at a farm celebration tomorrow near Grantsville, MD, and right now I'm wishing for a bright and timely kind of sustainable ag info sheet that I could distribute to the general public. Brief, up-beat, timely. Does anyone have such a thing? Or can I find something to download from the web? My concept is to have one sheet, two sides, nice graphics, big print. Bite sized items, but solid and sourced. Front side would have hot current stuff like the GE, Codex Alimentarius, growth of organic market, etc. Back side has background info that doesn't need to change in 3 weeks or 3 months: compost, grazing, CSA's, etc. The key thing for me is to make it encouraging, hopeful, not polemic. Pointed, but still respectful of the diversity of views in a small community. Okay, I probably should be able to distill what I want from the ongoing stream of info. But there's so much! Please wing me your reply, whether citing web pages, or suggesting items, or telling your story. Maybe I can actually put something out this afternoon! But if it can't be done by tomorrow, that's okay. I'm still going to need this in days and weeks to come. John Lozier harper for harmony with nature through ecological farming To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 15:43:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25147 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26510 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:59:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26479 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:59:54 -0400 (EDT) From: EMLIPSON@aol.com Received: from EMLIPSON@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7LEJa02400 (4412) for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <675151bc.24eee326@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:58:14 EDT Subject: organic resources for consumers To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2266 Dear SANET members and readers, I'm a writer who has written frequently about organics for consumer and trade publications. I'm now working on a consumer guide to organic foods to be published in spring 2000, and looking for items to include in a good resource section. This is not a cookbook or gardening book, but a book intended to help educate the mainstream (and otherwise) consumer about what 'organic' really means and why it matters, from environmental reasons to family farming. The book will also include a good resource and bibliography section. If you or your organization offer publications, periodicals, newsletters, guides, farm tours, films, or any other resource that would be valuable TO CONSUMERS, please let me know! This section will also suggest cookbooks and other relevant books. If you have suggestions, you can reach me at ELorganic@aol.com. I appreciate your help in this project -- Thank you! Elaine Lipson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 15:43:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25152 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:43:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:52:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19773 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA26259 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:50:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-139.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.139) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026104; Fri Aug 20 11:49:41 1999 Message-ID: <004301beeb2b$dcb31ec0$8bfd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Re: religion on SANet Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:48:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2267 >If nothing else interesting thread. I very much agree with what Dale wrote. We do tend to have "problems" with religion, yet we put a seed into the ground, water, than enjoy a plate full of steaming best ever veggies (or raw for those proponents), how "magical", "spiritual" is that! I get that that the consensus is we shouldn't "ban" religious discussion. But as in real life be POLITE. Respectully disagree. PS Pray, chant etc for rain :) Beth >I agree. I don't think discussion of God, or putative ethical forces and >spiritual entities should be condemned on Sanet. In fact, I think the >derivation from christianity of the natural-law ethics embodied in the >environmental movement is a very interesting subject (though perhaps beyond >the scope of the list). IMO, many things discussed on this list are of a >quasi-religious nature. > >Dale > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 15:43:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25166 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:43:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22390 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:54:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22278 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.7.3) id MAA22707 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;37BD8738.7F18.227E.000] Content-Identifier: Landscape Struct UA-Content-Id: Landscape Struct Autoforwarded: FALSE X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:49:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:49:00 -0400 From: Marc Safley Subject: Landscape Structure and Biological Control To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <37BD8738.7F18.227E.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-p5)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2268 There is a research article of interest in the August 6th edition of 'Science' that should be of interest to those on this list. It is entitled "Landscape Structure and Biological Control in Agroecosystems" and was written by Carsten Thies and Teja Tscharntke, Department of Agroecology, University of Goettingen, Germany. Following is the abstract: "Biological pest control has primarily relied on local improvements in populations of natural enemies, but landscape structure may also be important. This is shown here with experiments at different spatial scales using the rape pollen beetle (Meligethes aeneus), an important pest on oilseed rape (Brassica napus). The presence of old field margin strips along rape fields was asociated with increased mortality of pollen beetles resulting from parasitism and adjacent, large, old fallow habitats had an even greater effect. In structurally complex landscapes, parasitism was higher and crop damage was lower than in simple landscapes with a high percentage of agricultural use." Marc Safley Agricultural Ecologist NRCS/USDA marc.safley@usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 17:28:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26938 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29098 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:45:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29061 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA01154; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:44:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-139.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.139) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001075; Fri Aug 20 15:43:20 1999 Message-ID: <00bc01beeb4c$81ab94a0$8bfd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: organic resources for consumers Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:42:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2269 I would suggest the OFAs, the organic farming associations. I know there is NOFA, northeast and MOFA, Maine. I assume there are others. I think MOFA and NOFA have web pages. Best of luck, Beth snip The book will also include a good resource and bibliography section. If you >or your organization offer publications, periodicals, newsletters, guides, >farm tours, films, or any other resource that would be valuable TO CONSUMERS, >please let me know! This section will also suggest cookbooks and other >relevant books. If you have suggestions, you can reach me at >ELorganic@aol.com. I appreciate your help in this project -- Thank you! >Elaine Lipson > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 17:38:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27066 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03316 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:51:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03191 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA02007; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:50:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-139.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.139) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001982; Fri Aug 20 15:50:27 1999 Message-ID: <00c701beeb4d$800b83c0$8bfd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "John Lozier" Subject: Re: Current SA materials for wide general public Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:49:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2270 Hi John, I am stealing this web page from a recent post to this list. I have not checked it yet but from the info in the post is sounds like it might have some stuff you are interested in www.nfm-online.com/ Type in CSA(Community Supported Agriculture) into a search engine and you'll get a few pages pick a definition you like Same for compost grazing etc. Since you need it for tomorrow just give a quick peek, throw a bit of info on your paper include the web page addresses you like, save flashy info for when you have more time to get it ready. Good luck with your harp playing, Beth -----Original Message----- From: John Lozier To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 2:07 PM Subject: Current SA materials for wide general public >I'll be playing my harp at a farm celebration tomorrow near Grantsville, >MD, and right now I'm wishing for a bright and timely kind of sustainable >ag info sheet that I could distribute to the general public. Brief, >up-beat, timely. Does anyone have such a thing? Or can I find something >to download from the web? > >My concept is to have one sheet, two sides, nice graphics, big print. Bite >sized items, but solid and sourced. Front side would have hot current >stuff like the GE, Codex Alimentarius, growth of organic market, etc. Back >side has background info that doesn't need to change in 3 weeks or 3 >months: compost, grazing, CSA's, etc. The key thing for me is to make it >encouraging, hopeful, not polemic. Pointed, but still respectful of the >diversity of views in a small community. > >Okay, I probably should be able to distill what I want from the ongoing >stream of info. But there's so much! Please wing me your reply, whether >citing web pages, or suggesting items, or telling your story. Maybe I can >actually put something out this afternoon! But if it can't be done by >tomorrow, that's okay. I'm still going to need this in days and weeks to >come. > >John Lozier >harper for harmony with nature through ecological farming > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 18:48:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28116 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12263 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:54:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from intserver6.econ.ag.gov (intserver6.econ.ag.gov [151.121.66.226]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12249 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from router-3.econ.ag.gov by intserver6.econ.ag.gov (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0123A853@intserver6.econ.ag.gov>; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:52:11 -0400 Received: from intserver.econ.ag.gov (~user_b187.econ.ag.gov) by email.econ.ag.gov (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.FFB895EE@email.econ.ag.gov>; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:53:12 -0400 Message-ID: <37BDCE9A.40126E0B@intserver.econ.ag.gov> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:54:34 -0400 From: Catherine Greene X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Kudzu - planting References: <37BAEB14.15143F9E@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2271 Kudzu infests approximately 7 million acres of land in the U.S., mostly in the South, and is on the Federal Noxious Weed List. The Federal Noxious Weed Act [7 U.S.C. 2801-2814] "provides authority for a regulatory system designed to prevent the introduction into or through the United States of noxious weeds from foreign countries. The Secretary is authorized to initiate control and eradication actions against incipient infestations of noxious weed that are introduced into this country." (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/weeds/nwauthor.html) I have been working extremely hard for years removing Kudzu--and enlisting the help of neighbors, civic association, city officials, landscape architects and federal grants--in a bid to keep Kudzu from taking over the tiny city park/wooded area near my home. I see Kudzu killing trees everywhere we go when I visit my siblings in Georgia and South Carolina. New evidence is emerging that it may be spread by seed. Why plant Kudzu when the selection of non-invasive forages and ornamental vines is plentiful? Cathy Greene Alexandria, Virginia mike richardson wrote: > Okay children, draw near and listen well. For those that do not mind > incuring the ridicule and wrath of neighbors, here are planting > instructions for establishing kudzu. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Aug 20 21:18:34 1999 -0400 Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00357 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dirtfarmer ([153.37.239.179]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990821010607.EOFF15925@dirtfarmer> for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:06:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000101beeb71$b6797ec0$b3ef2599@dirtfarmer> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Kudzu - planting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:08:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2272 Re: Kudzu - planting mike richardson (mrichardson@tn.nrcs.usda.gov) Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:19:17 -0500 Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ] Previous message: Glenn: "Re: Why Do Farmers Keep Farming When It's Hard?" Okay children, draw near and listen well. For those that do not mind incuring the ridicule and wrath of neighbors, here are planting instructions for establishing kudzu. One point at the beginning ... it is actually somewhat difficult to get started, but once going...well, you all know what can happen. Kudzu does not do well on extremely heavy clays, or on poorly drained soils. Pick a field that has deep, well drained soils. Kudzu is very tolerant of a wide variety of soils, but obviously the better the soil the faster the establishment and the better the production. It must be set in prepared ground with a minimum of competition present. Liming is necessary, especially on very acid soils. Apply lime during ground preparation to bring the soil pH to 6.5 to 7.0. Alternately, mix about 0.4 lbs. ag lime in the soil used to plant each crown. Fertilization to begin the stand: Broadcast about 500 lbs. 0-20-20 per acre just prior to planting. Alternately, apply one handfull of 0-20-20 in separate holes about 3-4 inches from each seedling or crown planted. This prevents the fertilizer from burning the roots. Remember, that the broadcasting method will also be fertilizing weeds that will compete with the new kudzu growth. Whichever method is used, repeat each spring at least until the kudzu is well established. Do not use any nitrogen fertilizers since the kudzu is a legume and will provide for itself. Set seedlings or crowns in a hole opened with either a tree planting bar, mattock, or similar device, about 6' apart. Buds on the crown or seeling stock should be set at or just below the ground surface. Firm the soil around the plant. Stand failures frequently result from too deep or too shallow setting, or from setting plants upside down. After vines have started propagation can be hastened by placing soil on vine nodes, which will then cause new crowns to develope. Do not mulch. Do not mow kudzu during the growing season during establishment, until after a killing frost. Annual mowing, hand cutting of runners, grazing or use of herbicides can control growth of vines into unwanted areas. I do not know how to harvest kudzu for hay, but an old farm management textbook might have that info. With that all said, I would appreciate it if you would not bring up my name when someone asks "What the devil were you thinking by deliberately planting this stuff?" ;-> Son of Richard From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 20 23:01:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01540 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23967 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:24:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23891 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0307.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.52]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21693; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BCD2B2.B0FAC6D1@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:59:46 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kate Smith CC: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: NY Times Article--Berkeley going organic References: <19990818141035.18421.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2273 Yeah, a good idea. When I started my battles to be able to teach organic method in tax-supported universities,I had my hands full. Wish I could have added a public school battle too. It is wonderful if that can be really, truly carried out. If I were up there instead of down here in San Diego, I'd like to pitch in and help. Thanks for telling us about it. Kate Smith wrote: > FYI.... > > August 18, 1999 > > Berkeley Cafeterias Going Organic > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > A.P. INDEXES: TOP STORIES | NEWS | SPORTS | BUSINESS | > TECHNOLOGY | ENTERTAINMENT > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Filed at 7:31 a.m. EDT > > By The Associated Press > BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) -- Forget about mystery meat. > Berkeley's school cafeterias are going organic. > > The city's school board is expected to approve a plan today > that would give students the option of munching on > pesticide-free baby carrots and sandwiches made with > organic bread. > > The food would be grown in school gardens and purchased > from local organic farmers. Milk would be certified clean > of bovine growth hormones. > > ``That's pretty rare -- and pretty expensive -- but > Berkeley is an unusual place,'' said Rick DeBurgh, who > added that he has never heard of schools serving organic > cafeteria fare in his 22 years with the California School > Food Services Association. > > Santa Monica has experimented with a farmer's market salad > bar, but Berkeley wants to serve organic foods in the main > dishes and after-school snacks. The plan also calls for > removing irradiated and genetically altered foods. > > The new menu is intended to emphasize healthy eating habits > and teach students where their food comes from. > > ``Most kids don't even know what organic means,'' said > Berkeley High School junior Coriale Areceneaux. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 00:16:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02266 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06152 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:31:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06109 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP283.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.85]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26084 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BE1E4F.48D56F87@sprintmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:34:39 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Bible phobia Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2274 Jim, You missed the whole point of what I was saying. If you go back and read my original post on the subject, you'll see (I hope) that I was turning Bargyla's words back on her and inserting how fundamentalists in the Southeast view the "heresies" of Catholicism. My point is that any ritual can be viewed as "heathen" with the right viewpoint. I was NOT dissing the Roman Catholic religion. You took issue (or offense) by saying: "Lastly, before we assert our perception of "strange" religious practice, we had better assess our own ignorance. Catholics, for example, do not "worship" dead saints nor icons...they worship the triune God, the Creator. That they ask for prayerful intercession from dead saints (residing in heaven nonetheless), or conclude after considerable deliberation that grace can be transferred via inanimate objects, is also an act of faith and should serve as an initiator of discussion, not a barrier." Take a deep breath, put your persecution complexes aside and read in context. And know who you're talking to before calling them "ignorant." I was educated from the fourth grade through high school in Roman Catholic schools, even though I was raised in the Anglo Catholic church. So, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that I know more about the Roman church than you know about the Anglican church. And what's this barrier stuff? I see what I wrote as more of a bridge than a barrier. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 00:54:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02537 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:54:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00873 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:14:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00802 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wclynx.com ([209.249.70.168]) by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with ESMTP id AAA148; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:13:20 -0700 Message-ID: <37BE268D.2ABBAF72@wclynx.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:09:50 -0700 From: Diane Cooner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: in all fairness to Monsanto References: <3.0.6.32.19990819220922.007b9900@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2275 Greetings to All Saneteers.... I have a very hard time feeling any sympathy for Monsanto, or being falsely compelled to believe that they are owed any "fairness" when they are seeking to control the world's seed supply and are now looking to make a buck by controlling drinkable water in Mexico and India. They are not "playing fair" with the world - why is there any talk of "fairness" in dealing with them? Really, I don't get this line of thought. Diane in Northern California mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > I just tried to go to the site listed and to the root fao.org site but got > a Network Error unable to request URL from host. > > This seems to me to be a battle of spinmeisters. If the Codex Alimentarius > Commission was not willing to issue a ruling against the 1993 European > moratorium on rBST then one would be led to believe there is something to > the European concerns, especially now as implied below, they are trying to > determine a safe level for the residue from rBST induced hormones above the > naturally occuring base level. > > Your spinmeister, my sinmeister pick your expert. This game reminds me of > part of a song by Don Henley called The Garden of Allah on the Acutal Miles > CD. > > "Today, I made an appearance downtown. I am an expert witness; because I > say I am. And I said Gentleman and I use that word loosely, I will testify > for you. I'm a gun for hire, I'm a saint, I'm a liar. Because there are no > facts, there is no truth, just data to be manipulated. I can get you any > result you like, what's it worth to you? Because there is no wrong, there > is no right and I sleep very well at night. No shame, no solution, no > remorse, no retribution. Just people selling t-shirts, just Opportunity to > participate in the pathetic little circus and Winning, Winning Winning." > > The majority of the Epstein post was not even talking about the Codex > Alimentarius Commission and he did address the JECFA and it's position (as > well as it's composition and biases) on the matter. > > For the "life science industry" to cry foul on this seems dishonest. How > is Epstein's spin any different from the spins put out my Avery implying > that organic farmers are the source of E. coli 0157? How about Richard > Lugars statement today blaming any future world hunger on the EU because > they will not accept Frankenfoods? What happened to "The Customer is > ALWAYS Right." I guess that died with Edward Deming. > > The straw man of world hunger is exposed by the current glut of corn etc., > etc. for most other crops. Obviously, there is more food than the world > can pay for being produced on the existing amount of farmland let alone > cutting down more rainforest. And the other obvious solution to the > "overpopulation problem" just might be to use birth control but that would > not lead to the sale of more Roundup or rBST now would it? > > Before we feel sorry for monsanto, lets look at the total picture. Mike > Miller > > Subject: in all fairness to Monsanto > > > > > >---- > >got this from their site....... > >squeemish diego bill > > > > > > A Recent 'Press Release' (Aug. 18, 1999, S.S. > > Epstein) Alleging A United Nations Ruling That Milk > > From Cows Supplemented With BST Is Unsafe Is A > > Total Fabrication ..... > > In fact, the most recent action regarding bovine > >somatotropin (BST) by the > > Codex Alimentarius Commission was announced in a news > >release on July 4, > > 1999. At that time, Codex decided to postpone setting > >a maximum residue limit > > for BST until a consensus is reached. The indepedent > >scientific committee that > > provides scientific advice to Codex -- the Joint > >Expert Committee on Food > > Additives (JEFCA) -- has twice reviewed and reaffirmed > >that milk and dairy > > products from cows receiving BST is safe for human > >consumption. And, in July > > 1999, the European scientific committee (Committee for > >Veterinary Medicinal > > Products) also reaffirmed the safety of BST. Epstein's > >characterization that the > > Commission ruled in favor of the 1993 European > >moratorium on the product is > > false and misleading. > > > > To review the Codex news release issued July 4, or to > >listen/download excerpts > > from John Lupien, Director of the food and nutrition > >Division of the Food and > > Agriculture Organization (FAO) regarding the > >Commission's decision on BST, > > please visit: > > > > > >http://www.fao.org/WAICENT/OIS/PRESS_NE/PRESSENG/1999/pren9941.htm > > > > In addition, U.S. representatives to Codex may be > >contacted at 202-205-7760 > > for clarification. > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 05:46:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04655 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06809 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:07:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06710 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03390 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 02:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990820131751.006a816c@wvu.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.19990820131751.006a816c@wvu.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:20:47 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: Current SA materials for wide general public Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2276 Howdy, all-- John Lozier wrote: >I'll be playing my harp at a farm celebration tomorrow near Grantsville, >MD, and right now I'm wishing for a bright and timely kind of sustainable >ag info sheet that I could distribute to the general public. Brief, >up-beat, timely. Does anyone have such a thing? Or can I find something >to download from the web? > >My concept is to have one sheet, two sides, nice graphics, big print. Bite >sized items, but solid and sourced. Front side would have hot current >stuff like the GE, Codex Alimentarius, growth of organic market, etc. Back >side has background info that doesn't need to change in 3 weeks or 3 >months: compost, grazing, CSA's, etc. The key thing for me is to make it >encouraging, hopeful, not polemic. Pointed, but still respectful of the >diversity of views in a small community. I suggest the /Power Eater's Guide to Organic and Sustainable Food/, published by CIAS. Probably more as a model for other efforts, John, since about 2/5 of the info in it is local to Madison and Wisconsin. Printed on five different brightly colored cardstocks, 5 1/4 x 11, the /Power Eater's Guide/ is subtitled "Change the world and your foodshed with a fork, wallet, and brain." It provides a brief introduction to key concepts, including "Walk the Walk" (where locally [Madison] to purchase locally, organically, sustainably produced foods"), "Talk the Talk" (definitions of terms including "organic," "sustainable ag," "foodshed," etc.), "Be a Power Eater" (actions people can take to support locally, organically, sustainably grown foods), "See the Big Picture" (some brief, compelling facts on farmland loss), and "Know the Local Terrain" (key organizations doing sustag work in Wisconsin). It's too late for you to get some of these (if interested) for tomorrow, but for future reference, contact my colleague John Hendrickson for copies: jhendric@facstaff.wisc.edu Also, fyi, John H. and I are preparing some offspring publications--same tone, audience, and format--in a series we're calling "Meal Tickets." These will be issue oriented. We're working on two right now--one on energy use in the food system, and one on where the consumer food dollar goes. Our deadline for the first two is the third week of September. peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 11:24:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06395 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05213 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:46:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05070 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:46:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-47ppp56.epix.net [209.74.47.56]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999072601/PL) with ESMTP id KAA27572 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37BEBD26.B9AD3BC@epix.net> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:52:22 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: project manager postion available for organic farmette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2277 I am the president of Goodwill Industries in Lancaster County Pennsylvania. We are entering into a unique project that will allow us to operate a 6+ acre farmette in Millersville. Our goal is to grow organic vegetables for local market using the labor of people with various disabilities and vocational disadvantages. We have the people, the farm (including greenhouses), facilities and equipment and the support resources needed for the program. What we need is a key leadership person to hire as our project manager. We want to bring this person on board now to begin preparing the fields for the coming season's plantings. This unique person will have the responsibility of developing our site as a PA Certified Organic site and lead us through all the production issues. We will have one additional staff person helping to support the project manager by concentrating on the development of the people who will be our workforce. Do you know some people who might be challenged by such an opportunity. If so please pass along their names, addresses and phone numbers. We are most thankful for your time and consideration. Sincerely, Ron Kratofil /President Goodwill Industries of Southeastern PA 1048 N. Plum Street Lancaster, PA 17601 (717) 394-0647 Ron Kratofil ---------- please respond to above address only. thanks, Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 11:37:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06468 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14576 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:00:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14552 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:00:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Twittman@aol.com Received: from Twittman@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7YLDa03769 (4181) for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <17fb91f7.24f018aa@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:58:50 EDT Subject: HR1504 and S910 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2278 Hi Sanet Members, Anyone know more about the two bills below. I saw this on the Biotech list and am wondering if there is more to this story. Best, Thomas Wittman HR1504 and S910 pending in the US Congress and Senate right now despite any original good intent are bad law that will repress biological control alternatives to pesticide, in the guise of "protecting the environment". Callous bureaucrats are turning the environmental community upon itself to protect the pesticide marketplace. Biological control agents are not "plant pests" no mater how badly the pesticide industry would like them labeled that way. Releasing beneficial insects are not "biological invasions" that are more environmentally damming than pesticide use. They are instead a vast and underutilized natural rescue belonging to all Americans. Please while there is still time request a copy of this legislation and send your comments to your elected officials, also Dan Glickman, Secretary of Agriculture, and President Clinton. Passage of this legislation will turn the federal government into "Ladybug Police" that will warn against the possible environmental damage from ladybugs, lacewings and predatory mites while failing to protect the public especially children and women from pesticides adequately. Biological control has one of the best health, human safety, environmental records and economic efficiencies of any human enterprise. These laws will create thousands of new roadblocks in every state, giving legal authority to block projects to replace the ambiguous authority that has been used for years to keep pesticides in schools, our homes, workplaces and crops. These bills will also effectively and negatively impact the food quality protection act (FQPA) that is reducing the amount of pesticides in our children's food supply. The public and the common good will not be protected from harm. However I believe that access will be officially denied to safer, more affordable sustainable alternatives, this will be the practical result of these deeply flawed proposals. Stop this deceptive legislation now. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 13:57:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07550 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14054 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14029 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07365 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03658 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:19:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:19:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Bible phobia In-Reply-To: <37BE1E4F.48D56F87@sprintmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2279 On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Alex McGregor wrote: > You missed the whole point of what I was saying. If you go back and read > my original post on the subject, you'll see (I hope) that I was turning > Bargyla's words back on her and inserting how fundamentalists in the > Southeast view the "heresies" of Catholicism. My point is that any > ritual can be viewed as "heathen" with the right viewpoint. I was NOT > dissing the Roman Catholic religion. What has that to do with Bargyla, a teacher of the organic method of farming, living in California, a devout Christian and student of Biblical teachings? How your skewed "logic" leads you to ideologically connect her to the more radical Christian elements in the South is completely beyond me. I thought her posts were refreshing and enlightening, not negative as you seem to have decided. They offerred an uplifting perspective for those involved in the practice of regenerative agriculture. I guess that part breezed by you in your attempt to impart a different meaning to her message. The Christian fundamentalists that I know here in North Carolina are too busy keeping on farming, keeping their land and keeping their quality of life to have time deciding that the Catholic viewpoint is "heathen". They honor all the diverse religions of the world that accept the existence of God as the one supreme being. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 16:37:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08786 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25991 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25871 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:58:47 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:58:07 -0500 X-ROUTED: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:58:06 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.73] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0e45393c ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:57:58 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990821144946.007c4700@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:49:46 -0500 To: Subject: HR1504 and S910 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2280 To obtain the text of these bills, go to http://thomas.loc.gov/ and search by the bill numbers HR1510 or S910. I looked at them in brief and it looks like this could be used like a SLAP lawsuit to really tie up the Organic Pest Control Industry. Anybody can petition to add a"plant pest" to the list of controlled substances. Now with Science for Hire Information any thing could be banned. Nobody said the "life sciences industry" was stupid (or moral). Mike Miller >To: MMiller >From: Twittman@aol.com >Date: 21 Aug 99 10:46:12 -0600 >Subject: HR1504 and S910 > > >Hi Sanet Members, > Anyone know more about the two bills below. I saw this on the Biotech list >and am wondering if there is more to this story. >Best, >Thomas Wittman > > > >HR1504 and S910 pending in the US Congress and Senate right now despite any >original good intent are bad law that will repress biological control >alternatives to pesticide, in the guise of "protecting the environment". >Callous bureaucrats are turning the environmental community upon itself to >protect the pesticide marketplace. Biological control agents are not "plant >pests" no mater how badly the pesticide industry would like them labeled that >way. Releasing beneficial insects are not "biological invasions" that are >more environmentally damming than pesticide use. They are instead a vast and >underutilized natural rescue belonging to all Americans. Please while there >is still time request a copy of this legislation and send your comments to >your elected officials, also Dan Glickman, Secretary of Agriculture, and >President Clinton. > >Passage of this legislation will turn the federal government into "Ladybug >Police" that will warn against the possible environmental damage from >ladybugs, lacewings and predatory mites while failing to protect the public >especially children and women from pesticides adequately. Biological control >has one of the best health, human safety, environmental records and economic >efficiencies of any human enterprise. These laws will create thousands of >new roadblocks in every state, giving legal authority to block projects to >replace the ambiguous authority that has been used for years to keep >pesticides in schools, our homes, workplaces and crops. These bills will >also effectively and negatively impact the food quality protection act (FQPA) >that is reducing the amount of pesticides in our children's food supply. The >public and the common good will not be protected from harm. However I >believe that access will be officially denied to safer, more affordable >sustainable alternatives, this will be the practical result of these deeply >flawed proposals. Stop this deceptive legislation now. > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From grargall@alphalink.com.au Sat Aug 21 19:12:23 1999 Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10064 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d44-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.44]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA20240; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:00:44 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: RE: Bible phobia Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:05:55 +1000 Message-ID: <000001beec29$b966f820$2c3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2281 A person wrote: "What has that to do with Bargyla..." Guys, guys, the problem arose from this statement from Bargyla: "All these ideas are really worthless, because they go contrary to..." I don't care what the 'contrary to' is when folks talk like that, I don't want to get into the trivial details, let's just try to avoid competitive contempt. That's where the offense lies. Offense was initially taken elegantly and seconded positively, then Bargyla expressed contrition nicely, though sticking to the guns of her convictions: I would expect no less! But lets not go on bickering and confuse sanctimonious angst with arguments about spiritual values. Amen, ahwomen. Dennis From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 19:39:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10303 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:39:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23334 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:01:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23278 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d44-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.44]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA20240; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:00:44 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: RE: Bible phobia Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:05:55 +1000 Message-ID: <000001beec29$b966f820$2c3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2282 A person wrote: "What has that to do with Bargyla..." Guys, guys, the problem arose from this statement from Bargyla: "All these ideas are really worthless, because they go contrary to..." I don't care what the 'contrary to' is when folks talk like that, I don't want to get into the trivial details, let's just try to avoid competitive contempt. That's where the offense lies. Offense was initially taken elegantly and seconded positively, then Bargyla expressed contrition nicely, though sticking to the guns of her convictions: I would expect no less! But lets not go on bickering and confuse sanctimonious angst with arguments about spiritual values. Amen, ahwomen. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 19:49:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10384 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04654 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:19:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04639 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0771.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.185.6]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02977; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BE2E9F.F21D91AF@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:44:15 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jknotwell@ded1.ded.state.ne.us CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Bible phobia References: <152B6147E3F@ded1.ded.state.ne.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2283 You know, folks, all you folks, I never intended to start a furor. As I have said repeatedly, I just start writing as I think, and as much of my thinking is so saturated with what I had dinned into me, morning, noon and night all my young years, and then on my own, due to my own interest, Bible talks just seems to do itself--I don't realize the slant of my own wording, I suppose. So if everyone will just try to put up with me, I'll try to be more ordinary in my writing. Thanks to each and every one who sounds so tolerant and --should I say--:forgiving--. jknotwell@ded1.ded.state.ne.us wrote: > Nothing like a little Bible quotation to raise the hackles and send > everyone retreating into the safer realm of science. For such a > simple concept, faith can be so mind-bogglingly complex for many. > Do we really need "no religion rules" to operate honorably on this > list? Do we really need to observe the "I'm OK, You're OK" attitude > about truth? Do we really need to assert religious falsehoods to > make our points? > > Religion is the realm within which we search for the truth...and > there is only one (truth, that is). There are definitely thousands of > religions searching for it, but there is only one truth to find. How is > sustainable agriculture not a religion? If there was no creation to > steward and love, we would not even have this list or this topic? > > Saying that we are all right in our beliefs simply because they are > ours (the Druids are right because thats what they believe, the > Muslims are right because thats what they believe, on and on ad > infinitum) gets us no closer to the truth, and puts us on a > ridiculously high pedestal relative to the Creator. The only thing we > know for certain is that we don't know the whole truth. So if we > take a stand for certain behaviors as being right (sustainable > agriculture for instance), then that is an act of faith and nothing to > be ashamed of, nor frightened of, nor is it a discussion to be > avoided. > > Lastly, before we assert our perception of "strange" religious > practice, we had better assess our own ignorance. Catholics, for > example, do not "worship" dead saints nor icons...they worship the > triune God, the Creator. That they ask for prayerful intercession > from dead saints (residing in heaven nonetheless), or conclude > after considerable deliberation that grace can be transferred via > inanimate objects, is also an act of faith and should serve as an > initiator of discussion, not a barrier. > > So thank you Bargyla for opening this particular can of worms, as > we all know worms are beneficial and not to be avoided. So, with > all due respect and diplomacy, let's get on with it. > > JimK > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 19:50:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10391 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04676 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:19:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04663 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0771.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.185.6]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03141; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BE2F77.5250F72C@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:47:51 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Hook CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RNews about Dr. Ann Clark References: <004301beeb2b$dcb31ec0$8bfd6ed1@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2284 I was so surprised, when I read the July ACRES USA. to find a very long, very fine discussion by this superduper lady scientist. You all should read it. She writes, as usual, with not only scientific accuracy and ability to see through things, but with skill of a true writer. She said she was going on a year's vacation--ha ha, writing is part of that vacation, I bet. Good for her. I hope you all read it. Superb job. --------------------------------------- P.S. I did not know how to reach everyone, so just sneaked in on Dan Hook's reply. =========================================== ================================ Dan Hook wrote: > >If nothing else interesting thread. I very much agree with what Dale > wrote. We do tend to have "problems" with religion, yet we put a seed into > the ground, water, than enjoy a plate full of steaming best ever veggies (or > raw for those proponents), how "magical", "spiritual" is that! I get that > that the consensus is we shouldn't "ban" religious discussion. But as in > real life be POLITE. Respectully disagree. PS Pray, chant etc for rain :) > Beth > > >I agree. I don't think discussion of God, or putative ethical forces and > >spiritual entities should be condemned on Sanet. In fact, I think the > >derivation from christianity of the natural-law ethics embodied in the > >environmental movement is a very interesting subject (though perhaps beyond > >the scope of the list). IMO, many things discussed on this list are of a > >quasi-religious nature. > > > >Dale > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 19:58:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10462 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06300 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:23:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA06267 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:23:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.59] [199.175.106.59] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11IKSk-0006d9C for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:22:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:24:36 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: ladybugs and fruit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2285 Do ladybugs eat fruit? In harvesting plums I noted that every one in which the skin was split open there were ladybugs in the in the flesh of the fruit. In all cases the ladybugs were a light yellow colour. I couldn't find any smaller creatures on which the ladybugs could be feeding. Now we are picking blackberries and I'm finding yellow ladybugs on the fruit. If I try to move the ladybugs from the fruit to the leaves they fly away. Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 20:32:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10798 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00362 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:00:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00249 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990821235934.QMSH16727.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:59:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37BF3E15.4D7FA613@home.com> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:02:29 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: inall fairness to monsanto References: <199908212210.SAA20242@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2286 THe original post stated that the UN CODEX had ruled that rBGH was unsafe..What really happened wasas that they ruled to postpone the vote. NOT that rBGH was unsafe(i believe -as others- that it is unsafe) billevans Below is an excerpt from a post by Robert Cohen... "Sam has done this before...it is a complete fabrication. Monsanto is correct. Please check out the middle of my homepage: http://www.notmilk.com NOTMILK TIMES > They are not "playing fair" with the world - why is there any talk of > "fairness" in dealing with them? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 22:40:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14888 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23342 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:05:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23262 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:05:09 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:04:28 -0500 X-ROUTED: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:04:28 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.81] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 152d083c ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:04:08 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990821205556.008ca100@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:55:56 -0500 To: Subject: ladybugs and fruit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2287 Are the "ladybugs" light yellow or greenish yellow with black spots? If so, they are probably spotted cucumber beetles. The fly away part sound familiar. It has been a particularly bad year for them here in Iowa. Last year it was the squash bugs. Anybody know a nice safe way to handle cucumber beetles? Mike Miller >To: MMiller >From: maroc@islandnet.com >Date: 21 Aug 99 19:12:40 -0600 >Subject: ladybugs and fruit > > >Do ladybugs eat fruit? In harvesting plums I noted that every one in which >the skin was split open there were ladybugs in the in the flesh of the >fruit. In all cases the ladybugs were a light yellow colour. I couldn't >find any smaller creatures on which the ladybugs could be feeding. Now we >are picking blackberries and I'm finding yellow ladybugs on the fruit. If >I try to move the ladybugs from the fruit to the leaves they fly away. > >Don Maroc >Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 21 22:49:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15827 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28262 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:15:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28253 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp133.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.133]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C07461762; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002e01beec44$e83e97a0$859144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Bargyla Rateaver" , Cc: References: <152B6147E3F@ded1.ded.state.ne.us> <37BE2E9F.F21D91AF@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Bible phobia Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:20:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2288 I seen on TV tonight that religious leaders are suing for just the reasons we are talking about. its nothing personal . .and u see now folks are suing because of the no labels and the fact they the government is infringing on the right of one to practice their beliefs. I can see that can u. two many religious folks have dietary laws and this is not right. not labeling is not right because folks now can not trust any food from the USA unless its organic . School kid should sue and only eat organic or the poor kids that want to follow their God have no idea what is in the food at school. is that a apple or a porkapple. is the milk from cows that have been injected with a genetically engineered growth hormone or not. Can't folks see the changes are a coming. right is might. people of a lot of different faiths are coming together and saying we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it any more. this evil is so evil that different faiths are coming together as one voice saying LABEL your Frankenstein foods .we don't want to be the white mice. check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Bargyla Rateaver To: Cc: Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Bible phobia > You know, folks, all you folks, I never intended to start a furor. As I have > said repeatedly, I just start writing as I think, and as much of my thinking > is so saturated with what I had dinned into me, morning, noon and night all my > young years, and then on my own, due to my own interest, Bible talks just > seems to do itself--I don't realize the slant of my own wording, I suppose. > > So if everyone will just try to put up with me, I'll try to be more ordinary > in my writing. Thanks to each and every one who sounds so tolerant and > --should I say--:forgiving--. > > > > jknotwell@ded1.ded.state.ne.us wrote: > > > Nothing like a little Bible quotation to raise the hackles and send > > everyone retreating into the safer realm of science. For such a > > simple concept, faith can be so mind-bogglingly complex for many. > > Do we really need "no religion rules" to operate honorably on this > > list? Do we really need to observe the "I'm OK, You're OK" attitude > > about truth? Do we really need to assert religious falsehoods to > > make our points? > > > > Religion is the realm within which we search for the truth...and > > there is only one (truth, that is). There are definitely thousands of > > religions searching for it, but there is only one truth to find. How is > > sustainable agriculture not a religion? If there was no creation to > > steward and love, we would not even have this list or this topic? > > > > Saying that we are all right in our beliefs simply because they are > > ours (the Druids are right because thats what they believe, the > > Muslims are right because thats what they believe, on and on ad > > infinitum) gets us no closer to the truth, and puts us on a > > ridiculously high pedestal relative to the Creator. The only thing we > > know for certain is that we don't know the whole truth. So if we > > take a stand for certain behaviors as being right (sustainable > > agriculture for instance), then that is an act of faith and nothing to > > be ashamed of, nor frightened of, nor is it a discussion to be > > avoided. > > > > Lastly, before we assert our perception of "strange" religious > > practice, we had better assess our own ignorance. Catholics, for > > example, do not "worship" dead saints nor icons...they worship the > > triune God, the Creator. That they ask for prayerful intercession > > from dead saints (residing in heaven nonetheless), or conclude > > after considerable deliberation that grace can be transferred via > > inanimate objects, is also an act of faith and should serve as an > > initiator of discussion, not a barrier. > > > > So thank you Bargyla for opening this particular can of worms, as > > we all know worms are beneficial and not to be avoided. So, with > > all due respect and diplomacy, let's get on with it. > > > > JimK > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Aug 22 02:18:17 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25065 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 02:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA06257 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06117 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:40:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21635; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id BAA10246; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:39:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Newsgroups: alt.permaculture,alt.sustainable.agriculture Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu Subject: Donations solicited for victims of earthquake in Turkey (website) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2289 I located a website here in North Carolina with information on how to make donations (money, medical supplies, possibly clothes and other goods) to help the victims of the earthquake in Turkey. Here is the contact information: The American Turkish Association of North Carolina (ATA-NC) http://www.ata-nc.org There are links to other Turkey-related websites here, some possibly containing more earthquake relief information. Email: mail_master@ata-nc.org or Telephone: (919) 571-1494 (ATA-NC) ---------------------------------------------------------- Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 22 12:56:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18265 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01367 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:17:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01333 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.166.98] (pm3mbr1-166-51.intrepid.net [209.190.166.51]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25227 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:16:59 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:22:01 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Allan Balliett Subject: MD, VA, WV Federal Drought Relief (?) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2290 I haven't had a chance to follow up on this at all. I've heard that there is federal money for upgrading irrigation. Does anyone know the details on this? (I'm doing organic vegetable, orchard and grain growing in WV) Thanks -Allan igg@igg.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 22 16:33:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19927 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13438 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:47:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailout04.btx.dtag.de (mailout04.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.152]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13271 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fwd05.btx.dtag.de ([194.25.2.165]) by mailout04.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 11IdZw-000242-00; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:46:56 +0200 Received: from Noname (333100000669-0001(btxid)@[193.158.182.138]) by fwd05.btx.dtag.de with smtp id ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:46:42 +0200 Message-ID: <37C05414.F7E9A91E@t-online.de> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:48:36 +0200 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de]C-DT (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: (Kein "Betreff") X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: 333100000669-0001@t-online.de From: jbeilag@t-online.de (Johannes grosse Beilage) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2291 signoff sanet-mg To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 02:32:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25017 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 02:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA01973 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 01:36:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01963 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 01:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.46 (mx3-32.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.46]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA12601; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:35:21 -0500 Message-ID: <37C0E0D9.41D3@smallfarms.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:49:13 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Missouri Rally...promo Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------15AC50287D41" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2292 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------15AC50287D41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There is an important farm rally in Columbia, Missouri at the Boone County Fairgrounds coming up this Sunday, August 29. There are national names and organizations attending. (See Mary Hendricksons message to us, Wed., August 18, !999.) Now Im a small farmer and you cant tell me that the Missouri Farmers Union, the national people and the community, including the business community are just getting together for the evening barbecue. Theyll be there doing something for us. Were all members of a national small farm, small town, small ranch community. Kathy and I own smallfarms.com, the marketing Web site for small farmers and ranchers. Its a business, just like our farm. We support what the folks in Kansas are doing and we thank them because theyre going to help us. Just look at the list of speakers wholl be in Columbia. To encourage all small farmers and ranchers to get to the Rural Unity Rally, we will give a free registration at smallfarms.com to the small farmer or small rancher who travels the farthest to get there. Well also give a free one year registration to the small farmer or rancher who organizes the largest caravan to Missouri. E mail, call or write us after youre home from the rally. This offer is not limited to Sanet readers. Spread the word: Columbia, Mo., 8/29/99. glenn Buy from the Farmer www.smallfarms.com --------------15AC50287D41 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by amarron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16235 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:10:10 -0500 Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22637 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:18:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22564 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA48660 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:17:54 -0500 Message-ID: <37BB30C1.1970919@missouri.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:16:33 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Farmers Union Rally in Missouri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Hi Sanetters, FYI for any close to Missouri and interested in coming. Columbia Area Food Circle and Columbia Farmers Market will also be participating in the event so sustainable food systems will have a strong voice. Mary ________________________________________ Stand Shoulder to Shoulder with Rural America! Show Me Solutions to Saving Family Farms Attend Rural Unity Day August 29, 1999 Boone County Fairgrounds Columbia, Mo. 1:00 P.M. Join farmers, ranchers, business owners, church groups, bankers, and others and speak with one voice on behalf of rural America. A Community event to call attention to the farm crisis. U.S. Representatives, Kenny Hulshof, U.S. Senators Kit Bond, Paul Wellstone, Mike Dunn, USDA-Washington D.C., Adam Golodner, Chief of Anti Trust Division-Justice Department-Washington D.C.,Leland Swenson-President of National Farmers Union, Dr. Heffernan- University of Missouri, Mike Stumo- Organization for Competitive Markets, Barbara Ross, Catholic Diocese, Ronda Perry-Missouri Rural Crisis Center, and many others are scheduled to speak and will be in attendance to give you answers and hear your concerns. We know the crisis, and we are ready to start on the solutions to solve this problem, so that we can ensure the survival of rural America and independent family farmers. In unity, lets start the process to a prospering industry just as other industries are in todays economy. Sponsored by the Missouri Farmers Union For More information: 573-588-2425 All organizations in the state are invited to attend and participate in the event and represent their members. All members of any organization are also encouraged to attend and get involved to share unity and a clear voice in the agricultural sector. Put the UNITY back into COMMUNITY A pork barbecue will be held prior to meeting by donation only. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------15AC50287D41-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 11:14:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02693 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27310 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:03:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27284 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp10.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.110]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA26783 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:58:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00c301beed70$14878b60$6e4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: Agriculturelaw.com Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:02:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2293 Dear Friends, In my search for info regarding pesticide/GE trespass, I stumbled onto a website, www.agriculturelaw.com and found organic farming resources glaringly absent from the site (the nerve!) There were, however, at the Guest Commentary link, a number of Dennis Avery submissions. I emailed the site manager, asking where I might find information on the National Standards (we'll get to chemical/GE trespass later) and he suggested a guest commentary submission. Was hoping this might be the perfect soapbox for one of the more eloquent Sanetters...and perhaps even an opportunity to dispute some Avery mis-information, offer guidance to those who might consider conversion, etc. This is a mainstream, conventional site, and needs a good stiff dose of alternative, sustainable, and/or organic ag! Thanks, in advance, for your submissions, Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 11:14:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02698 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01397 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:14:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01385 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05443 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.190]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA71999 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b201beed73$d11fd9a0$ac7a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!! Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:58:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0051_01BEED4E.14951860" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2294 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BEED4E.14951860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all !! One large void that I see out there is practical "Good for You" = recipes ARE GOOD!!! I plan to compile a list of recipes for anyone = trying to cook healthy meals, including for ourself but need some help! Requirements include: * No processed sugar or other "processed" food ingredients, not just = organic.=20 * No white flour.(which is processed. Honey is permitted. * Recipe favorites that are tried and tested. I hate it when my wife has = to use us as guinea pigs! lol Too many food processing practices take out too many good nutrients. = I plan to compose some type of cookbook from the recipes I receive. I = will attach your name to them(only if you want) and will send a free = copy via e-mail to all those who participate. I hope this is ok to list here. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BEED4E.14951860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi all !!
        One large void = that I see out=20 there is practical "Good for You" recipes ARE GOOD!!! I plan = to=20 compile a list of recipes for anyone trying to cook healthy meals, = including for=20 ourself but need some help!
     
    Requirements include:
    * No processed sugar or other=20 "processed" food ingredients, not just organic.
    * No white = flour.(which is=20 processed. Honey is permitted.
    * Recipe=20 favorites that are tried and tested. I hate it when my wife has to use = us as=20 guinea pigs! lol
     
        Too many food = processing=20 practices take out too many good nutrients. I plan to compose some type = of=20 cookbook from the recipes I receive. I will attach your name to = them(only if you=20 want) and will send a free copy via e-mail to all those who=20 participate.
     
    I hope this is ok to list here.
     
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BEED4E.14951860-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 11:49:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03245 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23047 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:55:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.2.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23020 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.2.16]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA79279 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncc.uky.edu.uky.edu ([128.163.196.145]) by pop.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA15842 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990823105430.006b6f50@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: toria@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:54:30 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Victoria Mundy Subject: Scripture discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2295 Hello everyone, The scripture discussion was interesting. Hey, I found a Bible verse which struck me as very *a propos* for those of us working against land consolidation and farmland loss: "Woe to those who join house to house and field to field until there is no one, that they may be alone in the midst of the land!" (Isaiah 5:8) Would anyone be interested in an off-list or limited-list discussion of how scriptures from many different religions address agricultural or resource issues? (We could set a time limit of a week or two so this didn't turn into a whole 'nother listserv.) I am proposing simple comparison ("here's an example from the Bible, here's one from the Koran, here's one from..."), not discussion of which is better or true-er. If you're interested, please e-mail me privately and I'll set it up. Victoria ************************************* Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy N106R Ag. Sci. North, UK Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 12:54:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05304 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24192 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:56:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24083 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0207.gamewood.net [206.229.249.54]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA10542; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:55:24 -0400 Message-ID: <001101beed99$dc878240$36f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "sanet-mg" , Subject: yellow ladybugs Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:01:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2296 Sounds like you've got spotted cucumber beetles to me! Are they a yellowish green? And are they somewhat more elongated than normal ladybugs? A guide to identifying insects is an invaluable tool, look in the gardening section of your library or bookstore, or do a web search on cucumber beetles check out http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Vegetables/veg025e/img_twob.htm http://ipmwww.ncsu.edu/PEST_ID/pestid.html We've got these pesky critters in abundance this year since our drip irrigation is keeping the gardens alive while all our neighbors gardens are dry and dead. Cucumber beetles are especially problematic (especially on members of the squash family) as they transmit bacterial and/or viral wilt disease organisms. I started with insecticidal soap, then neem, and am ready to get out the rotenone soon if I don't see any drop in their numbers. I've also got some yellow sticky traps out near the blossoms of my pumpkins, they're attracted to yellow. BTW- anybody know where I can buy the cucurbitan (spelling?) pheromone so I can increase the effectiveness of my sticky traps? Amy in VA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 13:40:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07177 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10329 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:33:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10270 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:33:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7RGGa28682 (4182) for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:30:17 EDT Subject: Fed Proposed Legislation could affect use of biological controls in organic farm To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2297 A communication from the ORGANIC 4UM: Facilitated by Eric Kindberg, certified organic farmer Email: erorganic@aol.com Website: http://members.aol.com/organic4um Written contributions and comments are sought. If you desire your email address to be removed from our circulation list, please inform us. To be added to this email circulation request to organic4um@aol.com NOTICE In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107 this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving it for research and educational purposes. The Organic 4UM distributes this material free of charge even though it takes considerable time and money to produce it. Eric Kindberg, Editor Hello all, The following public correspondance relates to proposed federal legislation could affect organic farms and handling operations. We encourage you to download the details and offer public opinions. Best regards, Eric Kindberg Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:49:46 -0500 From: mmiller@pcsia.com Subject: HR1504 and S910 To obtain the text of these bills, go to http://thomas.loc.gov/ and search by the bill numbers HR1510 or S910. I looked at them in brief and it looks like this could be used like a SLAP lawsuit to really tie up the Organic Pest Control Industry. Anybody can petition to add a"plant pest" to the list of controlled substances. Now with Science for Hire Information any thing could be banned. Nobody said the "life sciences industry" was stupid (or moral). Mike Miller >To: MMiller >From: Twittman@aol.com >Date: 21 Aug 99 10:46:12 -0600 >Subject: HR1504 and S910 > > >Hi Sanet Members, > Anyone know more about the two bills below. I saw this on the Biotech list >and am wondering if there is more to this story. >Best, >Thomas Wittman > > > >HR1504 and S910 pending in the US Congress and Senate right now despite any >original good intent are bad law that will repress biological control >alternatives to pesticide, in the guise of "protecting the environment". >Callous bureaucrats are turning the environmental community upon itself to >protect the pesticide marketplace. Biological control agents are not "plant >pests" no mater how badly the pesticide industry would like them labeled that >way. Releasing beneficial insects are not "biological invasions" that are >more environmentally damming than pesticide use. They are instead a vast and >underutilized natural rescue belonging to all Americans. Please while there >is still time request a copy of this legislation and send your comments to >your elected officials, also Dan Glickman, Secretary of Agriculture, and >President Clinton. > >Passage of this legislation will turn the federal government into "Ladybug >Police" that will warn against the possible environmental damage from >ladybugs, lacewings and predatory mites while failing to protect the public >especially children and women from pesticides adequately. Biological control >has one of the best health, human safety, environmental records and economic >efficiencies of any human enterprise. These laws will create thousands of >new roadblocks in every state, giving legal authority to block projects to >replace the ambiguous authority that has been used for years to keep >pesticides in schools, our homes, workplaces and crops. These bills will >also effectively and negatively impact the food quality protection act (FQPA) >that is reducing the amount of pesticides in our children's food supply. The >public and the common good will not be protected from harm. However I >believe that access will be officially denied to safer, more affordable >sustainable alternatives, this will be the practical result of these deeply >flawed proposals. Stop this deceptive legislation now. > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 13:42:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07200 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10058 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:32:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10024 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lserve.eharvest.com ([216.38.10.51]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07837 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by LSERVE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:31:16 -0400 Message-ID: <21EE44311E24D31193F7009027731A8009408C@LSERVE> From: Chris Lanteigne To: "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" , Sanet Subject: RE: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!! Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:31:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BEED84.EB8FF9F0" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2298 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEED84.EB8FF9F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Paul, Go to http://chat.eharvest.com/ and click on the recipe chat. There's some good stuff here and you can engage with current users. Good luck! chris -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer [mailto:ps@erinet.com] Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 9:59 AM To: Sanet Subject: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!! Hi all !! One large void that I see out there is practical "Good for You" recipes ARE GOOD!!! I plan to compile a list of recipes for anyone trying to cook healthy meals, including for ourself but need some help! Requirements include: * No processed sugar or other "processed" food ingredients, not just organic. * No white flour.(which is processed. Honey is permitted. * Recipe favorites that are tried and tested. I hate it when my wife has to use us as guinea pigs! lol Too many food processing practices take out too many good nutrients. I plan to compose some type of cookbook from the recipes I receive. I will attach your name to them(only if you want) and will send a free copy via e-mail to all those who participate. I hope this is ok to list here. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEED84.EB8FF9F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Paul,
    Go to http://chat.eharvest.com/ and click on the recipe chat.  There's some good stuff here and you can engage with current users.
     
    Good luck!
    chris
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Schmitmeyer [mailto:ps@erinet.com]
    Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 9:59 AM
    To: Sanet
    Subject: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!!

    Hi all !!
        One large void that I see out there is practical "Good for You" recipes ARE GOOD!!! I plan to compile a list of recipes for anyone trying to cook healthy meals, including for ourself but need some help!
     
    Requirements include:
    * No processed sugar or other "processed" food ingredients, not just organic.
    * No white flour.(which is processed. Honey is permitted.
    * Recipe favorites that are tried and tested. I hate it when my wife has to use us as guinea pigs! lol
     
        Too many food processing practices take out too many good nutrients. I plan to compose some type of cookbook from the recipes I receive. I will attach your name to them(only if you want) and will send a free copy via e-mail to all those who participate.
     
    I hope this is ok to list here.
     
     
    ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEED84.EB8FF9F0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 13:53:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07384 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22160 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:58:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22155 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08228 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:57:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA07206; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm9-6.nidlink.com [216.18.141.61]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA08968; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908231657.JAA08968@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:07:33 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, , From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Misinformation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2299 Various lists have shared an important Reuters World Report story dated Monday, Aug. 23, 1999 (we'll post it to Ag BioTech InfoNet soon). It is entitled "Japan label plan seen affecting U.S. GM crop output." The story has solid, up to date data on trade, GMO plantings, etc, and this passage: "Traders estimate purchasing costs for U.S. corn by Japanese end-users could rise as much as 50 percent if they seek non-GM crops. As for U.S. soybeans, purchasing costs by Japanese users are expected to rise by about 30 percent." In the last few weeks I have spoken to several companies/people shipping non-GMO corn and soybeans to Europe and Japan. They appreciate very much the misinformation campaign that the grain trade and biotech industry is engaged in re the high costs of procuring non-GMO grain, since it makes the modest premiums they are asking for seem extremely reasonable. The GMO/biotech industry and proponents keep asking "why do people not trust us when we say we've tested the food...its safe...etc.?" I think it has something to do with the repeated lack of basic honesty in various industry pronouncements. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 14:38:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09423 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14140 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:43:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14113 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.01094785@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:39:12 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 23 Aug 99 13:42:20 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 23 Aug 99 13:42:13 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:42:05 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: religion or God on Sanet In-reply-to: <199908201828.OAA14655@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2300 Sal wrote: > I don't feel we should leave God out of this . I think that is what is wrong > with ag. today they leave God out . they think they are making the stuff > grow. they are creating and changing life on earth and playing God. Kate Smith recently tried to stir up a conversation about sprituality, spiritual values and agriculture, and I didn't see much response. I'm curious as to why and how Bargyla's narrow minded Bible spoutings have evoked this most recent discussion. I believe it was Gwyneth and Beth who publically protested Bargyla's patronizing Bible-thumping, but I don't think that either one of them were in any way discouraging a discussion of spirituality and agriculture. Quite the opposite. I think they were both reacting to big chunks of raw dogma hurled into this forum. Dogma is unprocessed, finger-wagging, ultimatum-laden "recipes" for life. It's also pretty hard to swallow, if you insist on digesting what you swallow. Raw dogma is what I hear when Bargyla gives her version of TRUTH. Spritual truth, the result of one's own internal processing and digesting, is real nutrition, and what I see as appropriate to the discussions here. It's more than just recognizing that there are other sacred texts (a la Alex's response; it's even deeper than that. There are also other ways of understanding the SAME sacred text. There is not one utterance or piece of writing which does not deserve your own reflection, questioning, and processing to make it your own if you are going to take it at all. I also don't think that anyone's temporal age on this planet has anything to do with it. A person who at even an advanced age still does not allow sacred words to penetrate her and integrate inside of her but rather continues to spout the raw dogma she was fed as a child, is, in my opinion, not wise according to her years. She may be brilliant when it comes to organic ag practices, but her understanding of religion and spirituality is still raw and undeveloped. And I'm not saying this in a purposefully disrespectful way or just because I don't agree with something she might say, I say it because it just simply sounds like the same old rhetoric you can find on any intervenous-religion show on Sunday morning tv. There is a difference between something which comes from *inside* you (whether or not I agree with it) and something that is passed on, unprocessed, from the outside. It's this sort of lack of internal processing which allows things like GE to go on unchecked and many other evils in the world to proliforate. We DO need to discuss spiritual and moral values on this list -- ABSOLUTELY, and interrated to this must be the understanding that this means processing everything which comes our way and making an effort to separate grain from chaff. We might not all agree as what is the grain of truth and what is the chaff, but we should have at least done all our own winnowing. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Mon Aug 23 14:46:31 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09629 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA13244; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:32:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12866 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:28:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0101.gamewood.net [206.229.249.32]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA15508; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:28:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000701beedaf$47388a20$20f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "veg-prod" , "sanet-mg" , "CSA list" Subject: Drip tape vs. T-tape Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:34:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2301 Anybody out there who can tell me what the difference between 1/2" Thin walled Drip Tape sold by The Drip Store and tee tape sold by Drip works? T-tape seems to be able to use less pressure so it can water more area (more lines/rows) at one time, and is much cheaper than drip tape from drip store (about half price). But they look to use the same fittings which The Drip Store has cheaper. The drip store also has better prices for 1/2 inch supply tubing and fittings and a better info. section both on their site and catalog. Thanks a Bunch! Amy in VA From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Aug 23 13:11:37 1999 -0400 Received: from cas.chemistry.gatech.edu (cas.chemistry.gatech.edu [130.207.35.195]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA05503 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bostwick@localhost) by cas.chemistry.gatech.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA23832 for london@metalab.unc.edu; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:12:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:12:15 -0400 From: bostwick@cas.chemistry.gatech.edu (David Bostwick) Message-Id: <199908231712.NAA23832@cas.chemistry.gatech.edu> To: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: rec.gardens.bamboo vote ack Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2302 I suggest that you read this entire message and save it. This is an automatic message sent to you after your vote has been counted. If this is correct, there is no need for you to reply. If your vote is registered incorrectly then please vote again so I can fix it. You may change your vote by voting again. The last vote I receive will be the one counted. This vote will replace any previous votes you have cast. If this vote is in response to the first CFV, you do *not* have to vote again when the second CFV is posted, unless you want to change your vote. Voter address: london@metalab.unc.edu Voter name: Larry London Your name, address, and vote will be listed in the final vote listing. If you do not want that information listed, you will need to vote again, using CANCEL as your vote. This will erase your vote and remove any information about you from appearing in the final vote listing. YES vote on rec.gardens.bamboo Receipt of this message simply acknowledges your ballot. If your ballot is determined to be invalid on closer inspection (e.g., if the ballot was supplied by a third party), I reserve the right to disallow your vote. Thank you for voting. David Bostwick Running UseVote 3.0 From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 15:16:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10232 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25945 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:08:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25934 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.01094E70@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:04:35 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 23 Aug 99 14:07:43 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 23 Aug 99 14:07:43 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:07:35 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: I'm Ok, You're Ok In-reply-to: <199908201828.OAA14655@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <8873ECC2499@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2303 > list? Do we really need to observe the "I'm OK, You're OK" attitude > about truth? Do we really need to assert religious falsehoods to > make our points? This is somewhat off-topic, but I just had to comment. I see the book title _I'm Ok, You're Ok_ misused all the time to mean "fluffy, saccherine, nonesense," and I just want to inform you all that this book, written in 1967 as the public introduction to Transactional Analysis, is anything BUT that. It is one of the best books I have ever read regarding human interaction, and one of the best tools I know of to help people to communicate in mature and thoughtful ways and to understand why this doesn't always occur. I wish more people would read this book and not just continue to misunderstand its title. I'm sure that if the author had any idea how his terminology would be misunderstood, he would have named the book differently, and maybe used different terminology all together to express his concept. Again, I highly recommend this book to anyone who seeks to have better communication and better relationships. There are few books in the New Age genre of self-help that can even come close to touching this book. If you were to understand the real meaning behind "I'm ok, you're ok," you would not denegrate it as fluff. In fact you ought to celebrate it as something very profound. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 15:26:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10516 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06361 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:29:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06328 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0101.gamewood.net [206.229.249.32]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA15508; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:28:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000701beedaf$47388a20$20f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "veg-prod" , "sanet-mg" , "CSA list" Subject: Drip tape vs. T-tape Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:34:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2304 Anybody out there who can tell me what the difference between 1/2" Thin walled Drip Tape sold by The Drip Store and tee tape sold by Drip works? T-tape seems to be able to use less pressure so it can water more area (more lines/rows) at one time, and is much cheaper than drip tape from drip store (about half price). But they look to use the same fittings which The Drip Store has cheaper. The drip store also has better prices for 1/2 inch supply tubing and fittings and a better info. section both on their site and catalog. Thanks a Bunch! Amy in VA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 15:29:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10575 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05937 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:28:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05843 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13136 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:12:26 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Sustag general audience pubs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2305 Howdy, all-- I've gotten a passel of queries about CIAS's "meal tickets," and thought a mass update would be of use, since this will be a rather stressed week for me, and my networking time is likely to plummet. John Hendrickson and I are working on two topics, as I said: energy use in the food system, and where the food dollar goes. These are very BRIEF publications--designed to pique the interest of and educate a general audience, and are modeled on our /Power Eater's Guide/, which was very well received. Now that I once again have the ability to access the UW-Madison server (after three months of working with Pacific Bell to get DSL networking installed in my apartment), I can make commitments regarding Web materials. We will be putting these publications on the CIAS Web site when they're complete. Early October is the goal, and PDF and TXT versions are the plan. If you want paper copies of these, you can either download them from the Web and duplicate them yourselves, or write to us at CIAS for copies. You can also feel free to use what we've done as a model for your own area. peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Arguing with a lovebird is like arguing with a two-year-old. You certainly won't lose...but you won't win, either. --Mister 3D To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 16:20:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11475 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03682 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:18:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03571 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26881>; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:25:55 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Aug23.142555cdt.26881@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:15:11 -0500 Subject: website devoted to hummingbirds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2306 sorry for the o/t post- a lady contributor to this list has a website devoted largely to hummingbirds. I lost the refernce URL by accident- could you please identify yourself (And your site)? Thank you & pardon me. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 18:51:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14479 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13269 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:56:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13126 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx (inter900.internet.com.mx [200.34.210.90]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14377 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:56:07 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990823165057.00735a10@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:50:57 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Southern agenda on Trade/WTO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA13191 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2307 Dear SANET, The following is from another list dedicated to NGO activity around the upcoming "Millenium Round" of the World Trade Organization in Seattle in November of this year. G-8 countries want to further liberalize rules, especially with regard to food and agriculture and services. Third World countries and NGOs from all over the world have their doubts and believe that a full review of the environmental and social effects of "free trade" and WTO so far should be carried out before and further liberalization occurs. I especially direct your attention to the section on "Agriculture and Food Security". ========== From: "cuts" to: StopWTORound@onelist.com subj: Southern Agenda for the WTO: A Civil Society Perspective no/date: C.88(2)/1999.08.23 from: cutsjpr@jp1.dot.net.in +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ KINDLY QUOTE OUR REF. NO. & DT. IN YOUR RESPONSE. IT HELPS US IN LOCATING THE RIGHT FILE QUICKLY. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sorry for X-posting Dear All, CUTS Centre for International Trade, Economics & Environment organised an international conference, "Southern Agenda for the Next Millennium: Role of the Civil Society" at Bangalore, India on 18-19 AUgust, 1999. The Conference was held close to the G-15 Trade/Commerce Ministers meeting. The objective of the Conference was to deliberate on the current international trade policy issues from the civil society's perspective so as to evolve a synergistic position, and take forward well-argued viewpoints and concerns on sustainable development in the South to the Seattle Ministerial Conference of the WTO. The Conference was attended by over 60 people from representatives of civil society, media, academia, governments (from G-15 group of countries), inter-governmental organisations. The declaration is also available in our web site . While looking forward to your valued response, I remain, With warm regards, Bipul ------------------------------------------------------------- Bipul Chatterjee, Consumer Unity & Trust Society, CUTS Centre for International Trade, Economics & Environment, D-218, Bhaskar Marg, Bani Park, Jaipur 302 016, Rajasthan, India. Ph: 91.141.20 2940/20 5802/20 0155 (H) Fx: 91.141.20 2968 E-mail: cutsjpr@jp1.dot.net.in [jp1 (one)] Web Site: www.cuts-india.org [KINDLY MENTION THE REFERENCE NUMBER AND DATE IN YOUR REPLY] ------------------------------------------------------------- Mission: Pursuing economic equity and social justice within and across borders for over 16 years. ================================================================= SOUTHERN AGENDA FOR WTO: A CIVIL SOCIETY PERSPECTIVE This Summary provides the highlights of the deliberations at the International Conference on "Southern Agenda for the Next Millenium: Role of the Civil Society" organized in Bangalore by the CUTS Centre for International Trade, Economics and Environment, on August 18 and 19, 1999. This conference brought together over 50 delegates from several NGOs and research institutions of the G-15 and other developing countries to discuss the contribution that civil society organizations could make to the Seattle Round deliberations, so as to safeguard the interests of citizens in these, and other developing countries. A Vision for the World Order The world trade order should accord a high priority to the autonomy of developing countries in designing and implementing development strategies. It should accept the fact that many instruments used by these countries to achieve development objectives are in contradiction to the theoretical concept of free trade. Provisions made in the world trade system to account for the special needs and problems of developing countries should not be stated as mere expressions of interest by the developed world. The system must enforce measures designed to provide special and differential treatment to the developing countries. No world order can succeed in its objectives if it does not accommodate diversity. To do this, the WTO process needs to bring back to centre stage a balance between the basic responsibility and accountability of governments towards their people and the requirements of an international system. It should respect the different priorities of countries at various stages of development. The acceptance of divergent development strategies is crucial, because development cannot be viewed in simple terms of per capita income. It is a multi-dimensional process, and each country should have the autonomy and flexibility to decide how it prioritizes these dimensions. * A vision of the world order that gives countries the space to implement their own strategies of sustainable, multi-dimensional development, while respecting the priorities of other countries, is the starting point of this agenda. Strategic Coordination There is general agreement that the WTO in its current form is far from serving the best interests of the citizens of developing countries. This perception is equally true for the common citizens of the developed world. Based on the theoretical foundation that free trade benefits all those who participate in it, the reality of the system since it was initiated five years ago suggests that countries who advocate free trade rarely practice it. More so, instead of evolving into an organization based on principles, it had become one in which every agreement was the result of intense conflict between countries or groups of countries, which eventually concluded on the basis of the superior bargaining power of developed countries. In fact, this is a process, which has put the developing countries as a group at an inherent disadvantage. There are grave doubts about the merits of holding a new round of trade negotiations while this unequal bargaining situation prevails. From the South's perspective, the benefits of continuing negotiations in the WTO framework lie in using them for detailed reviews of existing agreements, and implementation of remedial action achieving balance and equity in the system. The best way to go about this is by a process of strategic coordination between developing countries. It is for developing countries to seek out their common interests and stand firm as a group to assert those interests in the new round. To make strategic coordination effective, an effort needs to be made at two levels. The governments of these countries should work together with clear perception of national interest in mind. This would need to be complemented by active collaboration with civil society organizations, which would assert the priority of issues relating to equity and social justice. This combination would then be in a position to formulate a strategic positive agenda that could be put forward at the Seattle meeting of the WTO. * The primary objective of continuing negotiations is a full review of the implementation and impact of existing agreements. * Southern countries must strategically coordinate to identify their common interests, and collectively negotiate to advance them. * Civil Society must ensure that equity and social justice are given high priority in the negotiating positions of these countries. The rights and interests of consumers, rural and urban workers, small farmers and enterprises, and vulnerable social groups must be protected. * This process also requires that southern governments encourage, support and collaborate with civil society organizations in their own countries. Strategic co-ordination cannot be effective in promoting joint objectives unless this broad range of resources is effectively used. * With respect to continuing negotiations, new issues, such as investment policy, competition policy, government procurement, trade facilitation, e-commerce, information technology, social and environmental clauses et al should not be put onto the agenda. The Structure of WTO The WTO has four main functions: rule-making, policy orientation and monitoring, negotiations and dispute settlement. All these functions have been shaped by the unequal bargaining power between the developed and developing world. For the WTO to have any chance of advancing southern interests, concerted action by the southern governments and civil society organizations is essential. The immediate task is to develop a common agenda for the Seattle negotiations. It must be emphasized that the WTO does not operate in isolation. It is a part of a broader arrangement of multilateral financial and regulatory institutions, many of which also reflect the same inequalities. * Given the diversity of needs, interests, resources and approaches to development among southern countries, a fair, equitable and transparent rule-based system is necessary. * A multilateral trade and financial system that is resistant to the unequal bargaining power between South and North cannot emerge without collective action by southern countries. Agriculture and Food Security The experience with the Agreement on Agriculture has been in virtual contradiction to the expectations of southern signatories. The pressure to reduce subsidies and increase market access to the northern producers has been intense. Simultaneously, the degree of support received by the latter from their governments has been increasing. The subsidies typically provided by southern governments have been classified as violating the Agreement. On the other hand, the bulk of subsidies provided by northern governments have been placed in the "non- actionable" category. Even as the north continues to artificially enhance the competitiveness of its agricultural products, the south is constrained to reducing or freezing its quantum of subsidies to this sector. The same asymmetry prevails with respect to market access. Both tariff and non-tariff barriers have been used by the north to restrict the south's access to their markets. Genuine competitiveness, which is the underpinning of free trade is clearly not being given an opportunity in this sector. Closely related to the issue of market access is that of food security. The existing agreement can conceivably put a country which is not self-sufficient in food at the mercy of global traders to meet its basic needs. Guaranteeing the availability of food to its citizens is a sovereign responsibility of any nation. This cannot be subordinated to the requirements of any world trading regime. One way of doing this is to take domestic production for domestic consumption outside the ambit of the agreement. * The reality of the Agreement on Agriculture is far from the expectations of the southern countries. It has, in effect, forced them to stop supporting their own farmers, while opening up their markets to the heavily subsidized producers from the north. This is of particular concern for countries threatened with food shortages, because food aid programmes are declining in significance. * Opening up trade in agriculture, under whatever conditions, cannot be given precedence over the sovereign responsibility of governments to ensure food security. * Another objective is to protect the livelihoods of groups traditionally involved in food production, such as small farmers and fisherpersons. Linkage Issues Environmental and Social Issues Environment and social issues are increasingly being pushed onto the trade agenda. It is recognized that solutions to environmental and social problems are a fundamental part of any vision of sustainable development. These are not issues that need to be imposed on southern economies in any way. There are existing national and international mechanisms designed to address these problems. A trade regime is neither an appropriate nor an effective device to achieve these objectives. Firstly, there is every danger that it can be used by countries to raise non-tariff barriers. Secondly, the bulk of environmental and social problems are related to domestic economic activity, whereas the WTO can only influence export-related activities. * Environmental and Social Issues are an integral part of any vision of sustainable development. Trade restrictive measures are neither appropriate nor effective mechanism to address these problems. They need to be advanced through independent policy routes supported by international cooperation. Inconsistency between Instruments Conflict between TRIPs and CBD The south is at a great disadvantage with respect to its biological resources, because of the inherent conflicts between the Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD) and the Agreement on Trade Related Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS). The former is a scheme, which gives countries a great deal of control over their indigenous resources; not just at the governmental level, but devolving to the communities that have traditionally used these resources. The latter seeks to commercialize traditional knowledge; it fails to recognize the relationships between communities and biological resources. It is structured so as to give an unequal advantage to commercial interests of the north. The conflict between the two agreements could be resolved in favour of the affected southern communities by taking full advantage of the scope of sui generis legislation, which would protect the interests of the groups involved in southern countries. * The CBD acknowledges sovereignty and the rights of communities to share in the benefits of biological diversity, neither of which are acknowledged by TRIPs. The forthcoming review must amend TRIPs to bring it in line with CBD. ================================================================= This Summary has been endorsed by the following participating organisations at the Conference, and it is open for supporting sign-ons from others. 1. Focus on the Global South, Bangkok, Thailand, and Bombay, India 2. International South Group Network, Harare, Zimbabwe 3. Consumers International, Penang, Malaysia 4. Yayasan Lembaga Konsumen Indonesia, Jakarta, Indonesia 5. Africa Centre for Technology Studies, Nairobi, Kenya 6. Era Consumer, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia 7. DESCO, Lima, Peru 8. Law & Society Trust, Colombo, Sri Lanka 9. Council on International and Public Affairs, New York, USA 10. ZERO, Harare, Zimbabwe 11. ACIM, Port Louis, Mauritius 12. FEDCOT, Chennai, India 13. Gene Campaign, New Delhi, India 14. Council for Social Development, New Delhi, India 15. Consumer Guidance Society of India, Bombay, India 16. Citizen, Consumer and Civic Group, Madras, India 17. CREAT, Bangalore, India 18. Consumer Education Centre, Bangalore, India 19. Indian Institute for Consumer Studies, Bangalore, India 20. Consumer Guidance Society, Vijayawada, India 21. CUTS, Jaipur, India Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 19:00:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14623 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA25586 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:17:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25560 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24344 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> References: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:12:11 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Time out Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2308 How quickly we divide our ranks among and against ourselves. I wish to step into this and call a time out on this topic. Not a "shut up" or "no talk." Just a time out. I'm seeing some unconscious judgmentalism come out that personally makes me very uncomfortable. Anita Graf wrote: >Kate Smith recently tried to stir up a conversation about >sprituality, spiritual values and agriculture, and I didn't see much >response. I'm curious as to why and how Bargyla's narrow minded >Bible spoutings have evoked this most recent discussion. I believe >it was Gwyneth and Beth who publically protested Bargyla's >patronizing Bible-thumping, but I don't think that either one of them >were in any way discouraging a discussion of spirituality and >agriculture. I would suggest that the reason there wasn't much response is that, when there was--when Bargyla offered her views--she soon was attacked. She's got more courage than I do. From the response she got, apparently there's not a lot of tolerance for diverse beliefs here. And we apparently feel deeply threatened quite readily. Bargyla's words can be reduced as "narrow minded" "spoutings" or "patronizing Bible-thumping." Who among us would assign these categories to some of the equally strongly phrased, equally opinionated writings valued by people on this list. Does the name "Wendell Berry" ring any bells in this context? Wes Jackson? Jim Hightower? >Quite the opposite. I think they were both reacting to >big chunks of raw dogma hurled into this forum. Dogma is >unprocessed, finger-wagging, ultimatum-laden "recipes" for life. >It's also pretty hard to swallow, if you insist on digesting what you >swallow. Raw dogma is what I hear when Bargyla gives her version >of TRUTH. Spritual truth, the result of one's own internal >processing and digesting, is real nutrition, and what I see as >appropriate to the discussions here. It's more than just recognizing >that there are other sacred texts (a la Alex's response; it's even >deeper than that. There are also other ways of understanding the >SAME sacred text. Anita, although I agree with you on the last sentence there--based on 25 years of study of comparative religion and comparative mythology, as well as walking my own spiritual paths--your words here come across as no less dogmatic, to my eye. There are indeed many ways of understanding the same thing, but no one is required to believe anything other than what they do. And even those of us who believe that we have broad, diverse minds have our own dogmatic spaces. Bargyla appears to be aware of her own biases, and admits to them. I understand that in some faiths, "Know thyself" is the first and only commandment. People are entitled to be dogmatic--being human may in fact ensure it. Whether they choose to listen to others and modify their beliefs is up to them. But writing them off, or alienating them, is likely only to harden dogma with a sense of persecution. There is no communication possible except between equals. And while answering dogma with dogma can send us all to the kennels, I'd suggest that we get farther when people actually say what they believe. Even when that includes an unwillingness to change what they believe. As for things being hard to swallow, as Miss Piggy once said, "My diet secret? Never eat anything you can't lift." >There is not one utterance or piece of writing >which does not deserve your own reflection, questioning, and >processing to make it your own if you are going to take it at all. I >also don't think that anyone's temporal age on this planet has >anything to do with it. A person who at even an advanced age still >does not allow sacred words to penetrate her and integrate inside of >her but rather continues to spout the raw dogma she was fed as a >child, is, in my opinion, not wise according to her years. She may >be brilliant when it comes to organic ag practices, but her >understanding of religion and spirituality is still raw and >undeveloped. This is uncalled for, in my view. I'm asking for a time-out. It is not up to anyone on this list to judge anyone's "advancement" or "understanding" or "brilliance." None of us has any way of knowing what another's experience of the sacred has been. That is intimate territory, between them and their divine. And anyone who knows their *own* experience of the sacred so well that they have the latitude to judge others' should be running for public office or taking the reins of multinational corporations, because that clarity of vision is sorely needed in high places. I'm deeply uncomfortable with this. If we can listen to the dogmas of Chief Seattle (an often-referred-to wise elder), and other people we will never know except through their writings, or other people's written reports of their spoken works, how can we possibly judge someone who bases their knowledge on Biblical writings? I'm also confused as to why it is an elder woman who is bearing the brunt of all this anger and projection, suddenly, and why it is women who are the most vocal. On the days that I see fools everywhere, or another person as unwise, I remember that I tend to see in others what I fear or dislike in myself. Bargyla is, in my estimation, entitled to "thump" her Bible as hard and as loudly as she wishes, if indeed that's what she's doing. My deities are different than hers, and I do not feel threatened by the fact that she sees hers as strongly as I see mine. Nor do I feel uncomfortable that she would view me as a primitive animist, full of superstitions. She would, I believe, dig in the dirt with me anyway. We'd both, I believe, rescue worms from the sidewalk after a hard rain. I do not believe that she'd ever intentionally cause me harm, and if she caused me any unintentional harm, I sense that she'd listen when I told her that, and try to make amends. She has not forced any of us to believe what she believes; she has simply spoken her beliefs strongly. In her belief system, truth is revealed, and is contained in a sacred book. The divine has not spoken to me as it speaks to her. I talk to birds and the moon and the sea and the stars, and quietly, smugly, pity those who don't, who get their revelations from "lesser" sources. All that does, in my mind, is bear witness to the enormity of the divine, and the complexity of its manifestations. All that does is strengthen my sense that if I truly wish to know the divine, I'd best start with knowing myself, and others, and be aware of my own patterns of judgment. There is a place for *everyone* at the table, and I don't think the deities will seat Bible-readers apart--at a better table nor a worse one. > And I'm not saying this in a purposefully disrespectful >way or just because I don't agree with something she might say, I say >it because it just simply sounds like the same old rhetoric you can >find on any intervenous-religion show on Sunday morning tv. There is >a difference between something which comes from *inside* you (whether >or not I agree with it) and something that is passed on, unprocessed, >from the outside. Anita, it looks like you feel strongly about the relationship of an individual's spirit to the revealed or internal or inherited truths, but judging another's religion strikes me as inappropriate here. One could argue that sustainable ag is the same old rhetoric you can find in any 19th century Jeffersonian hemp-smoke-and- breakfast-brandy vision of landedness, or in any 20th century heartland sentimentalism. In fact, folks have dismissed sustainable ag in just that way. It ain't science, it has to be foo foo. The only way out of that conundrum, it seems to me, is to step away from judgment altogether. Which isn't possible. The next best thing, then, is to be aware of one's patterns of judgment. I want to tell a story. In 1981, I was through-hiking the Appalachian Trail. I got very ill while in the Smoky Mountains. After my recuperation, my hiking partner and I were making our way back to the AT--or trying to--by trying to hitch a ride in Asheville, NC, back into the mountains. We were discouraged by many signs prohibiting hitch-hiking. We were walking along a frontage road, night was falling, we were exhausted and not sure how we'd get back to the mountains. We didn't have a lot of money. Suddenly a big old car appeared, and the driver rolled down his window. He said, "Looks like you folks could use a lift, can I help you?" In brief, this man took us to his house, in a valley in Marshall, TN. He and his wife fed us supper, did our laundry, did not ask who we were or what our religion was. After supper they took us out, and we walked their land in the valley. The man was especially proud of the red-tailed hawk's nest in one of his big old trees. He protected it with a shotgun against some of the less aware neighbors, who apparently tried to use the birds for target practice. My hiking partner was my boyfriend, and at this time, he had a big, bushy beard and long hair and a dark dark tan. (On more than one occasion in Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee, he was called a nigra. Just as on more than one occasion, I was told that I was asking for rape, wearing hiking shorts and a sleeveless shirt.) This man and his wife must have noticed that we did not wear wedding rings, but they put us up for the night in a shared room. They didn't ask questions. They didn't judge us. The man said that he and his wife were sitting in a restaurant, and saw us walk by, and said to each other, "Looks like those folks could use a lift." The next morning, the man drove us to an AT trailhead. In the course of 18 hours together I'd learned many things. I learned about the history of the area--Civil War history, more recent events. I learned about the natural history of the area--what was in bloom, what animals were living where, where to find the best streams for fresh, safe water, or for crayfish, or for fishing. Where some secret trails were, with especially beautiful views. Where some of the less-safe places for hikers were, in the upcoming stretch of trail. This man was a Baptist preacher. He was the equivalent of a bishop, though he laughed and said that, with eighty-odd sects (at that time) of Baptists, it didn't take much (and he winked) to become a bishop. He was a narrow-minded, dogmatic, fire n brimstone Bible thumper. He described himself that way. He had personally seen and talked to god, and to Jesus Christ. Mike (my hiking partner/boyfriend) and I talked about this for a long time. This man challenged our beliefs, and did so in a way that I never forgot. I didn't end up more like him in a particular expression of faith...but I did end up understanding more about diversity and tolerance. While he didn't express his beliefs in words, he did in actions. And while we could judge and condemn the theory, we had been nourished by the practice. About a week later, we were off the trail again, and needed a ride back. This time, someone offered us a ride, an earnest young man with a mess of gospel tracts, and a humungous amount of exposition of his faith in Jesus Christ as his personal savior, as well as autobiographical detail about his life journey from despair to salvation. We saw someone offering us a ride, and sharing the truth that had transformed and sustained him, and even made it possible that he would extend strangers such courtesies. He pressured us to accept Jesus. We said no, thank you, we had our deities in place. He let us know he was concerned for our immortal souls. We said (and meant it), thank you, that's really thoughtful of you. He let us know that he was suffering, that we weren't saved. We offered him compassion, that he could feel that deeply. He sent us on our way with his prayers. It is one thing if people are forced to believe something. That I will speak out against, as strongly as I can. I have personal experience with coercive faith. People of various faiths have, in my lifetime, forced me, or tried to force me not to do things I've needed to do, to walk with my deities as I experience them. People of various faiths have prevented me from doing such things, as well. These things happened at a time when I was not empowered to stand up to them. And, yes, I know how it is, to have others be coercive in this way--the personal costs of it. Bargyla is, in my estimation, is not coercing, was not coercing, and could not coerce any of us to do or believe anything. All she did was comment, strongly, on how her knowing of the truth is at odds with other versions of the truth expressed here. She is entitled--as any of us is--to experience, witness to, and walk with the divine as she sees fit. Particularly when invited to. Many religious traditions suggest that judgment should be left to the Judge. I don't know who that is. I know it's not me, and I suspect that none of us on this list inherited that cosmic gavel, either. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Harold: Maude, do you pray? Maude: Pray? No, I communicate. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 19:27:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15712 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18573 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:51:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18552 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-134.csj.net [12.29.22.134]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA20846 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:53:34 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Subject: FW: rBST mik : response from Epstein himself Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:50:21 -0500 Message-ID: <001601beedb9$e305e6a0$affefea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2309 -----Original Message----- From: william Aal [SMTP:waal@seanet.com] Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 4:53 PM To: Rick Roush; gentech@gen.free.de Subject: RE: rBST mik : response from Epstein himself Hi all, I took it upon myself to read between the lines a little, since Monsanto and the supporters of rBGH were flooding the e-mail and airwaves with their response. It seemed odd that the foes and supporters of rBGH might be on the same side of an issue, so I called Epstein up and following my note is what he sent back. I think we should be careful to read the politics in the decision that the Codex Commission did make. it is often the case that tabling is a decision not to move any further, because the US couldn't get enough support for its position. It takes a little subtility to not just look at the surface of these types of proceedings. I'm not saying I understand all of the goings on here, but we should be analytical of these types of stories. Bill Aal Washington Biotechnology Action Council Postscript to PR Newswirg, August IS Press Relase on "Monsanto's Genetically Modifiedfied Milk In response to the strong interest and supportive calls, apart from some narrow legalistic questions, on this press release, I would like to furtherclarify the Codex ruling. Since 1995, the U.S. has pressured the Codex Commission to adopt a standard, based on tolerances or Maximum Residue Limits, for residues of rBGH in milk in attempts to prove its safety and promote its international export. At its June 30 meeting, the Commission unanimously rejected further consideration of this U.S. proposal, particularly in light of the recent Canadian ban or "notice of non-compliance", and of recent reports to the European Commission by two committees of independent international experts on the cancer and other risks of Monsanto's milk. By such action, the Commission explicitly ruled that national governments have absolute rights to decide whether or not to permit imports of rBGH milk in view of well based public health concerns, My August 18 press release is clearly consistent with these events, notwithstanding the self -interested protestations by spokesmen for the FDA, the highly Hawed and unaccountable Joint Expert Committee on Food Additives and Monsanto, It may be further noted that the premier health and science U.K. journalist George Moribiot in his July 22 article in The Guardian, reported that "three weeks ago the European Union routed an American attempt to fbrcc - - (Europe) to accept (rBGH milk) since safety concerns about rBGH milk could not be ignored". Monbiot also commented on the "deluge of absolutely no coverage at all" with which this unprecedented and momentous ruling against genetically modified food has been greeted. . School of Public Health (MC 922) August 23,1999 2121 West Taylor Street CHicago, Illinois 60612-7260 Phone. (312) 996-2296/2297 - Nix (312) 996-1374 - E-mail epstein@uic.edu -----Original Message----- From: Rick Roush [mailto:rroush@waite.adelaide.edu.au] Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 10:40 PM To: gentech@gen.free.de Subject: Re: rBST mil, archive 1730 Maroc: As I have said on this server in the past and in my comment on this story, "I am no fan of bst". I agree that it is completely unnecessary from a production standpoint, although I would disagree slightly that some benefit must accrue to private dairymen in competition with their neighbors or it wouldn't sell. However, my point is that if you have a really good case, do you have to sink to distortions to make it? If you do exaggerate, do you have any greater (or even equal) moral integrity than those you criticise? You CAN pick your friends even in politics, and unless you are prepared to sink to the lowest levels, you ought to. Cohen at his web site clearly took the high ground, and I respect him for it. Rick >Rick, you may be correct about Epstein's interpretation of the Codex >action, or he may be correctly reading between the lines but I guess in >politics (and this is about politics, public and corporate) you can't >always pick your friends). Some day it could be possible that milk >produced by cows being drugged with rBST will be shown to be detrimental to >human health but we don't have to wait to know that the use of rBST is >negative to the health of cattle. We knew this long before Monsanto even >became interested in the drug (back when American Cyanamid was the main >promoter). There is also a negative side effect on dairy farmers who raise >fine herds of registered cattle for breeding purposes. > >Beyond the health aspects of rBST I'd like to have your take, Rick, on the >use of a drug which is If all completely unnecessary from the production >standpoint. We can already greatly overproduce at a very low product >retail price (here in Canada we use a supply=management system to avoid >over-production), so why resort to a drug whose only real benefit is >corporate profit? farmers use the drug there is no benefit to >individual farmers. The only way farmers can benefit is if the poor >managers use it to overcome their shortcoming. > >The social and ethical side of the arguments about rBST are more important >that the scientific. > >Don Maroc >Vancouver Island, Canada <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The address for any administrative command like unsubscribe, subscribe or help is: GENTECH-REQUEST@gen.free.de The searchable WWW list archive is available at http://www.gene.ch/archives.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 19:38:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15974 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22390 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:58:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22332 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:58:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:59:34 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.143] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A1C08223014A; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:57:04 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg" Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:54:56 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: religion or God on Sanet Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2310 On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:42:05 EST5EDT, Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >of TRUTH. Spritual truth, the result of one's own internal >processing and digesting, is real nutrition, and what I see as >appropriate to the discussions here. I disagree. What you describe is relativism in its purest form. Relativism in the form of "We each define our own 'truth.' " Truth, almost by definition, must independent of the individual. We may struggle to understand and apply it, but we can never *define* it. The problem with relativism is that when all "truth" becomes equally valid, the idea of absolute truth must of necessity vanish. Unfortunately, when you lose absolute truth, the basis of justice is largely lost with it. What was formerly in the realm of justice consequently devolves into a pure and unadulterated power struggle ... which is what we have these days in America. "We define our own truth" was the essence of rebellion in the Garden of Eden story, so none of us should be surprised that it repeatedly slithers into human arrogance. Sadly, that attitude carries its own consequences, as the sorry state of both the American land and American culture indicate so very clearly. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 19:47:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16413 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29797 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:08:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cyberus.ca (mail.cyberus.ca [209.195.95.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29786 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from computer (ip68.ts7.mn.dialup.ottawa.cyberus.ca [209.195.85.68]) by cyberus.ca (8.9.3/Cyberus Online Inc) with ESMTP id TAA12224; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:07:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908232307.TAA12224@cyberus.ca> From: "Gord Hawkes" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , Subject: Re: I'm Ok, You're Ok Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:10:22 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2311 Wow! I think I'm ok, definitely think Bargyla's ok, sure that Anita is ok, same with Kate, Gwyneth and Beth, Misha she's ok too, there are a couple Aussie's I'm not too sure about (just kidding). Hey folks we're all ok! Let's not take ourselves too seriously - bravo for those who have sound fundamental beliefs be it religious or otherwise. It's what makes this group interesting - we're sorta like one big happy sometimes disfunctional family, but that's what makes the world go round - that is if one subscribes to the belief that the world goes round - not meaning to offend any of you flat earth society members. Bargyla has shown great restraint and poise in her apologies - I tip my hat to you for being mature and definitely courteous. So let us discuss the issues of sustainable agriculture and let us mix those discussions with our own personal twists and idiosyncrasies, cuz after all we're "just" human with many foibles - 'specially those Aussies! Gord Hawkes Log Cabin Orchard Osgoode, Ontario Canada (no comments please) ---------- > From: Anita Graf (Staff) > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: I'm Ok, You're Ok > Date: Monday, August 23, 1999 10:07 AM > > > > list? Do we really need to observe the "I'm OK, You're OK" attitude > > about truth? Do we really need to assert religious falsehoods to > > make our points? > > This is somewhat off-topic, but I just had to comment. I see the > book title _I'm Ok, You're Ok_ misused all the time to mean "fluffy, K > saccherine, nonesense," and I just want to inform you all that this > book, written in 1967 as the public introduction to Transactional > Analysis, is anything BUT that. It is one of the best books I have > ever read regarding human interaction, and one of the best tools I > know of to help people to communicate in mature and thoughtful ways > and to understand why this doesn't always occur. I wish more people > would read this book and not just continue to misunderstand its > title. I'm sure that if the author had any idea how his terminology > would be misunderstood, he would have named the book differently, and > maybe used different terminology all together to express his concept. > Again, I highly recommend this book to anyone who seeks to have > better communication and better relationships. There are few books > in the New Age genre of self-help that can even come close to > touching this book. If you were to understand the real meaning > behind "I'm ok, you're ok," you would not denegrate it as fluff. In > fact you ought to celebrate it as something very profound. > > Anita > > > Anita Graf > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 21:34:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17792 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06020 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:45:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06010 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d42-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.42]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA01576; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:44:44 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Gord Hawkes" , Subject: RE: I'm Ok, You're Ok Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:50:03 +1000 Message-ID: <000501beedca$9a28e2a0$2a3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <199908232307.TAA12224@cyberus.ca> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2312 Gord wrote: "cuz after all we're "just" human with many foibles - 'specially those Aussies!" Hi Gord I enjoyed it! But I thought I was the only Aussie on the list... do I make too much noise for one? Actually, I thought I should also write because while I have found it very valuable generally subscribing to the list for half a year now, I have found it especially valuable to read your messages. My wife and I are still living with two daughters (finishing education) at home in town in Canberra, and our farm is 220km away. Over the years, indeed most months, we wonder if it really has much point, trying to go on with the farm. Reading your messages I get a real impression of folks somewhat like us trying to get the benefits from life as part of nature. And it has encouraged me to stick at it. And always, getting to the farm and the first few minutes in the quiet there is a kind of redemption, a reassurance, a re-integration to a properly modest place in the environment. We have no TV, no computer, a little radio, wood, gas and we use about 200 to 500 watt/hours [i.e. a 100 watt bulb for 2 to five hours] a day of electricity from the solar system. Having been preoccupied in the last couple of years with house building at the farm (a small house, easy to clean, easy to heat, encouraging us to get outside to the max), we have just spent some weeks trying to get the orchard back on track, pruning with the chainsaw and the mulcher (a big 9hp industrial machine, weighing 120kg [280lbs], able to reduce prunings to a good mulch/compost additive). It was also nice that Margaret decided she wanted to become the expert sharpener of the chainsaw - usually I am too rattled from wielding the thing to do it properly. Usually our pruning policy is to have such an exhausting and inconclusive dispute over pruning that nothing gets pruned, maybe just the occasional UN General Assembly resolution adopted grudgingly - but we seem to have made a bit of a breakthrough this winter. We had to make some judgments that would wipe off a lot of the fruiting from this year's crop, which has worked out OK too, I think, as suddenly the temperatures are high, in an early hot spring, which I'm pretty sure will be followed by icy frost in September, likely to kill new fruit. One year (until a flood took away our little weather station) we recorded in a September [spring] thirty day period temperatures from -1c [30F] and 35c [95F], with 8 inches of rain. Extraordinary daily shifts (makes it great for work and then sleep), wonderful growing opportunity with deep black alluvial soil but very tough for the early bloomers! Now we have the distraction from the farm of a second grandchild about to be born in Melbourne [700km away]. But we are confirmed in the virtue and sheer enjoyment of bringing the farm deeper into productivity. It is now essentially a closed system, with the only prospective future imports of poultry, possibly sheep which will resist fly problems (the kind without wool around the bottom) to add the essential livestock to the balance. But that awaits our being there full times, and meanwhile there are a lot of native species around. We also seem to have a new young wombat manager-in-residence at the farm, to prune up the bottom of the citrus, take care of the fallen fruit and [swine!] and eat the bamboo shoots from underground. In my dotage I have to spare a thought for the old and rusty walking grey haired wombat who seems to have lost his territory, but the young fellow looks pretty fit. take care in Ontario, Lord Hawkes. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 22:09:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18237 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08103 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:36:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08029 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16339 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d42-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.42]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA10356 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:35:51 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "sanet" Subject: plants/electrical fields Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:41:10 +1000 Message-ID: <000901beedd1$bdfee920$2a3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2313 This exchange of thoughts may be of interest -----Original Message----- From: Raymond Peat [mailto:raypeat@efn.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 4:18 AM To: Argall Family Subject: Re: After reading of Clive Baxter's experiments in the 1960s I hooked a microammeter to a leaf of my phlegmatic aloe plant, and there was no change at all for a few hours; when the mailman came down the walk, my dog (who hated people in uniforms) dashed barking toward the window, where the aloe was. Instantly, there was an extreme increase in conductance. J.C. Bose was the pioneer in measuring plant electrical/emotional fields, and he also suggested that vital properties could be found in minerals. I think Michael Polanyi's physics and Lancelot Law Whyte's formative principle extended the implications of this attitude toward matter. At 01:04 AM 8/24/99 +1000, you wrote: > >The 'Travellers' Tales' column in the Far Eastern Economic Review > http://www.feer.com is lighthearted, but this item appears to have something >more interesting.. > > TRAVELLERS' TALES > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >---- >By Nury Vittachi >Issue cover-dated August 26, 1999 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >---- > >GREEN PARTY: Lots of people talk to their plants. Scientists say it makes >them grow better. But now, thanks to a wonderful breakthrough in Japan, your >plants can talk to you. >All you need is a little device called a Plantone, made by Epoch Co. It's a >box with wires. One wire leads to a rod, to be stuck into the soil, and >others lead to clips, which you attach to the plant's leaves. > >The machine is highly sensitive to changes in the natural electricity that >all plants and animals have. It can detect changes of one ten-thousandth of >a volt. These signals are converted into sounds (the range is three octaves) >and lights (the flashing diodes have three colours). > >Once the plant is wired up, you and your family members can stroke the >plant, try out various plant foods on it, or just stand near it. Almost >immediately, you will be able to tell how excited it is. "A strong reaction >will trigger a higher-pitched sound and the appropriate lights," the Nikkei >Weekly reported. With many plants favouring certain individuals over others, >a whole new area of family arguments opens up. > >The developer, Mitsue Ishikawa, said: "I thought it would be nice to know >how plants react to external stimuli, such as being touched or approached by >someone." The Plantone costs Yen6,980 ($58) and is powered by regular radio >batteries. > >Now here's the spooky bit. When the devices were being developed, Ishikawa >once approached the office late at night, when there were no stimuli around. >But he clearly heard the plants generating tunes to each other. What were >they saying? Nobody knows. > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >---- > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 22:10:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18258 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03331 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:32:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03196 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0497.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.242]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20741; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C08046.63C403BA@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:57:10 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: ladybugs and fruit References: <3.0.6.32.19990821205556.008ca100@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2314 I can look up cuc beetles in the Primer UPDATE, if you want me to. I don't know what you mean by a safe way. I don't promote use of poisons. mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > Are the "ladybugs" light yellow or greenish yellow with black spots? If > so, they are probably spotted cucumber beetles. The fly away part sound > familiar. It has been a particularly bad year for them here in Iowa. Last > year it was the squash bugs. Anybody know a nice safe way to handle > cucumber beetles? Mike Miller > > >To: MMiller > >From: maroc@islandnet.com > >Date: 21 Aug 99 19:12:40 -0600 > >Subject: ladybugs and fruit > > > > > >Do ladybugs eat fruit? In harvesting plums I noted that every one in which > >the skin was split open there were ladybugs in the in the flesh of the > >fruit. In all cases the ladybugs were a light yellow colour. I couldn't > >find any smaller creatures on which the ladybugs could be feeding. Now we > >are picking blackberries and I'm finding yellow ladybugs on the fruit. If > >I try to move the ladybugs from the fruit to the leaves they fly away. > > > >Don Maroc > >Vancouver Island, Canada > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 22:14:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18340 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08047 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:36:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07997 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d42-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.42]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA10329 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:35:46 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: spiritual issues Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:41:05 +1000 Message-ID: <000801beedd1$bb3f7b00$2a3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <199908232307.TAA12224@cyberus.ca> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2315 On the spiritual issue, I should relate a story from my experience as a volunteer English tutor to new migrants in recent years. Together with another tutor, we had half a dozen fellows around the table at the Canberra Workers Club (across the road from their English classrooms, much less formal, $5 for three years membership, sports channel on the TV). Being good old guys, we discussed - easy with two square tables pushed together and a handful of drinks coasters - the different rules of the four or five different football codes played in this country. Then there was a serious discussion about how to read the bus timetables, focussed at the other end of the table. Suddenly, from beside me the Mon [Burmese minority] farmer said to me "Create and invent. What is the difference, please?" I was a bit stunned by the shift in sophistication, and also confronted by the difficulty of explaining with modest vocabulary to people still learning the language, what the difference was. As I made some progress, the Cambodian doctor with us said, helpfully: "Imagination?" so we then had three interesting terms to deal with, and off down the language slope I slid happily, until the farmer said: "Cows?" I said: "What about cows?" He said: "Do cows have imagination?" I said, after being totally halted for a moment: "Well, you are the Buddhist, perhaps you can answer this question better than I can" "Well," he said, "There is this cow in a paddock and he looks out and sees all these other cows, and sees all this land and he says to himself 'All this will be mine'. Is that imagination?" Playing for time, I say: "You mean a bull?" "Yes, I mean a bull." "Instinct" says the Cambodian doctor, with professional dismissive tone. So we now have four words to deal with: create, invent, imagination and instinct. This is heady stuff, stuff to get tied up in even on SANET, let alone among OK guys at the Workers Club trying to learn basic English. A little deeper in the discussion, the Mon farmer says: "Rats?" The Cambodian doctor says "What are rats?" I say: "Do you know what a mouse is?" He says yes. As I begin to explain that a rat is like a large mouse, his face clouds and he says quietly: "I know what rats are." (He had been driven out of Phnom Penh in 1975 at age 6 into forced labour by the Pol Pot regime. Later, back in PP while the Hun Sen government was still isolated by the west because of its support from Hanoi, in the late 80s he learned his medicine in French, while engineering students learned in Russian and economics students studied in Vietnamese - ah, what simple lives we lead in rich countries) "So what about the rats?" asked the doctor, with pained expression. The farmer gave a vivid account of the elaborate galleries of tunnel homes the rats built under his rice fields in the farm from which he as fled to political exile. "Is this not imagination?" he asked. Later, the doctor asked me "Is it true as believed in my country, that a snake will not attack a pregnant woman?" I expressed the thought in reply that a snake might well be able to tell the difference between a pregnant woman loaded with progesterone and a man hunter drenched in testosterone. Our discussion of rats also led him to note that during the Pol Pot time, killing an animal was punishable by death, so that people would take a pig, tie it in a pond for a while, then bring it out and remove the leeches. These would be roasted over coals, then slit down the black, and the baked blood eaten. The pig, of course, would still be alive. An interesting tale of adaptation and of the intersection of our proud human social systems management with simple efforts to survive in an ecological niche. Life in the atmosphere is much more diverse than life in the sea http://kaos.erin.gov.au/life/general_info/bd_box1.html and it seems to me that this can be seen not in terms of 'richness' but also because so much more difficult adaptation is required to live in the air, with water filled bodies, making energy by burning dangerous oxygen. I think the power of technology takes us away from the sorts of questions in the discussion above, which can only come from an awareness not of being a dominant and science and technology proud species, but being part of an ecological whole, survival in which depends on adaptation and cooperation rather than competition and control. So it is too, perhaps, with ideas as well as technology. Dennis p.s. another little anecdote from my tutoring experience. I had a discussion group around a table, in a classroom for advanced students. I looked around me and was amazed at what we had assembled that day. There was a Bosnian journalist, whose husband was at another table, away from the Serbian doctor, also at my table. There was the officer from the Lebanese National Police Drug Squad, come into exile to avoid the fate of his assassinated brother. There was the young, totally idealistic Burmese guerrilla soldier, 32, with 18 years in the jungle behind him. Then there was the relatively suave Burmese democrat politician in exile. And the Korean ballet dancer. And me, the retired diplomat. I remarked on this. "We have the State!" shouted the Serbian doctor, and everyone fell about laughing. The teacher approached, puzzled look on face, and asked "What's going on here?" to which the doctor replied, instantly "And here comes the citizen!". More laughs. Later, the Burmese politician, discussing life on the Thai-Burma border, between his years in a Rangoon prison and his time in a Bangkok prison, told us very vividly and sincerely of his encounter, in a gust of wind in the jungle one day, with the beautiful spirit princess who had been his wife in a former life. As this story swirled and swirled, I could see the European listeners reacting similarly and somewhat skeptically, hopefully learning that Serbs and Bosnians are really much closer to each other than they might think. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 23:43:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19980 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06604 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:08:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06589 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:09:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.176] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AC599F61014A; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:07:05 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg" Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 03:04:58 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: I'm Ok, You're Ok Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2316 On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:50:03 +1000, Argall Family wrote: >I'm pretty sure will be followed by icy frost in September, likely to kill >new fruit. One year (until a flood took away our little weather station) we >recorded in a September [spring] thirty day period temperatures from -1c >[30F] and 35c [95F], with 8 inches of rain. Extraordinary daily shifts >(makes it great for work and then sleep), wonderful growing opportunity with >deep black alluvial soil but very tough for the early bloomers! For you and any other folks needing to retard early bloomers, you can usually delay them about 3 to 15 days by mulching the roots heavily as winter nears its end. Keeping the trees' feet colder (because the mulch insulates them) simply makes it harder to get the sap flowing up to the buds, and they don't bloom as early. Won't always work, but worth a try. Here in Kansas it was the best apricot crop in 15 years because there was a gradual warm-up and no frost. Canned a bunch of them --- Yum. BTW, the word 'apricot' comes from the same root as 'precocious.' To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 23 23:48:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20050 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13795 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:15:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from always.got.net (always.got.net [207.111.232.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13721 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.66.100.13] (dyn-209-66-100-13.scrz.got.net [209.66.100.13]) by always.got.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA33900; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00c301beed70$14878b60$6e4b2e9c@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:13:40 -0700 To: "Julie" , Sustainable Ag Net From: Cecile Mills Subject: Re: Agriculturelaw.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2317 "Julie" wrote: >In my search for info regarding pesticide/GE trespass, I stumbled onto a >website, www.agriculturelaw.com and found organic farming resources >glaringly absent from the site This past week, the Secretary of Agriculture in California visited his FIRST organic farm. I believe the people in the forefront of mainstream agriculture are ignorant in the true sense of the word--why else would they exclude organic information and resources? (Don't answer that if you're going to say that they are in the pockets of the petro-chemical multinationals.) seaseal@got.net believe it just before you see it To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 01:50:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21368 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23625 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:05:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23548 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18938 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0519.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.184.9]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21448; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C1FB91.A495B2EB@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:55:29 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Schmitmeyer CC: Sanet Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!! References: <00b201beed73$d11fd9a0$ac7a5acf@oemcomputer> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A14F0978906670C2964BA9F4" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2318 --------------A14F0978906670C2964BA9F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is really needed is not a COOKING food book, but a book of really good, interesting, different, satisfying book of how to prepare RAW food. Half the nation of US is dying of cancer. It is time for people to forget cooking and learn to enjoy raw food. I think it is so shocking--when I was a child, someone with cancer was so rare, and we all would worry if it was catching. Now, EVERY OTHER PERSON YOU KNOW WILL DIE OF CANCER. Paul Schmitmeyer wrote: > Hi all !! One large void that I see out there is practical "Good > for You" recipes ARE GOOD!!! I plan to compile a list of recipes for > anyone trying to cook healthy meals, including for ourself but need > some help! Requirements include:* No processed sugar or other > "processed" food ingredients, not just organic.* No white flour.(which > is processed. Honey is permitted.* Recipe favorites that are tried and > tested. I hate it when my wife has to use us as guinea pigs! lol > Too many food processing practices take out too many good nutrients. I > plan to compose some type of cookbook from the recipes I receive. I > will attach your name to them(only if you want) and will send a free > copy via e-mail to all those who participate. I hope this is ok to > list here. --------------A14F0978906670C2964BA9F4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is really needed is not a COOKING food book, but a book of really good, interesting, different, satisfying book of how to prepare RAW food.  Half the nation of US is dying of cancer. It is time for people to forget cooking and learn to enjoy raw food.
        I think it is so shocking--when I was a child, someone with cancer was so rare, and we all would worry if it was catching. Now, EVERY OTHER PERSON YOU KNOW WILL DIE OF CANCER.

    Paul Schmitmeyer wrote:

     Hi all !!    One large void that I see out there is practical "Good for You" recipes ARE GOOD!!! I plan to compile a list of recipes for anyone trying to cook healthy meals, including for ourself but need some help! Requirements include:* No processed sugar or other "processed" food ingredients, not just organic.* No white flour.(which is processed. Honey is permitted.* Recipe favorites that are tried and tested. I hate it when my wife has to use us as guinea pigs! lol     Too many food processing practices take out too many good nutrients. I plan to compose some type of cookbook from the recipes I receive. I will attach your name to them(only if you want) and will send a free copy via e-mail to all those who participate. I hope this is ok to list here.  
      --------------A14F0978906670C2964BA9F4-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 01:51:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21399 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23973 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:06:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23873 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0519.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.184.9]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21822; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C21992.AA8A7A97@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:03:31 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: religion or God on Sanet References: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2319 Interesting. I thought I was careful to quote Bible passages accurately.The world is full of people who have their own ideas. I did not quote things I learned, as authority. I thought I made it plain that I was taught wrong. I quoted the Bible, which was OSTENSIBLY the basis for the things I was taught. I found out I was taught lies. It was the confusion between what I had been taught and what the Bible actually says that bothered me. When I stayed with just the Bible, it all became clear. Sure, most people don't accept the Bible as the only truth. I do. Right. ==================== Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Sal wrote: > > I don't feel we should leave God out of this . I think that is what is wrong > > with ag. today they leave God out . they think they are making the stuff > > grow. they are creating and changing life on earth and playing God. > > Kate Smith recently tried to stir up a conversation about > sprituality, spiritual values and agriculture, and I didn't see much > response. I'm curious as to why and how Bargyla's narrow minded > Bible spoutings have evoked this most recent discussion. I believe > it was Gwyneth and Beth who publically protested Bargyla's > patronizing Bible-thumping, but I don't think that either one of them > were in any way discouraging a discussion of spirituality and > agriculture. Quite the opposite. I think they were both reacting to > big chunks of raw dogma hurled into this forum. Dogma is > unprocessed, finger-wagging, ultimatum-laden "recipes" for life. > It's also pretty hard to swallow, if you insist on digesting what you > swallow. Raw dogma is what I hear when Bargyla gives her version > of TRUTH. Spritual truth, the result of one's own internal > processing and digesting, is real nutrition, and what I see as > appropriate to the discussions here. It's more than just recognizing > that there are other sacred texts (a la Alex's response; it's even > deeper than that. There are also other ways of understanding the > SAME sacred text. There is not one utterance or piece of writing > which does not deserve your own reflection, questioning, and > processing to make it your own if you are going to take it at all. I > also don't think that anyone's temporal age on this planet has > anything to do with it. A person who at even an advanced age still > does not allow sacred words to penetrate her and integrate inside of > her but rather continues to spout the raw dogma she was fed as a > child, is, in my opinion, not wise according to her years. She may > be brilliant when it comes to organic ag practices, but her > understanding of religion and spirituality is still raw and > undeveloped. And I'm not saying this in a purposefully disrespectful > way or just because I don't agree with something she might say, I say > it because it just simply sounds like the same old rhetoric you can > find on any intervenous-religion show on Sunday morning tv. There is > a difference between something which comes from *inside* you (whether > or not I agree with it) and something that is passed on, unprocessed, > from the outside. > > It's this sort of lack of internal processing which allows things > like GE to go on unchecked and many other evils in the world to > proliforate. We DO need to discuss spiritual and moral values on > this list -- ABSOLUTELY, and interrated to this must be the > understanding that this means processing everything which comes > our way and making an effort to separate grain from chaff. We > might not all agree as what is the grain of truth and what is the > chaff, but we should have at least done all our own winnowing. > > Anita > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 01:54:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21431 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA24127 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:06:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23872 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:05:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0519.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.184.9]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22207; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C22087.782DBA79@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:33:11 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha CC: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Time out References: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2320 Deara Everybody. I especially appreciate those who, like, and especially like, Misha, try to smooth things out and be fair. I can't understand all the turmoil. I just read, once more, reference to "ice ages" to come, and instantly I thought of all the Bible says that would contradict this, and I should have SHUT UP. Instead, I spoke right up. Yes, I do quote the Bible as the one and only authority. Yes. So if that bothers anyone, sorry. I can't change the fact, but I can shut up and I did not need to spout off right away. I never thought of contradicting A PERSON, just the idea of ice ages, because according to the Bible, that is not possible. I'll try to remember to be more careful. Dear oh dear, what a turnmoil. Who would ever have imagined just some Bible quotes would stir up such animosity. Well, I can try to shut up. Hope it works. ?????!!!!!???? Anyway, special thanks to all who had kind words about me. Unexpected. Misha wrote: > How quickly we divide our ranks among and against ourselves. > > I wish to step into this and call a time out on this topic. Not a > "shut up" or "no talk." Just a time out. I'm seeing some unconscious > judgmentalism come out that personally makes me very uncomfortable. > > Anita Graf wrote: > > >Kate Smith recently tried to stir up a conversation about > >sprituality, spiritual values and agriculture, and I didn't see much > >response. I'm curious as to why and how Bargyla's narrow minded > >Bible spoutings have evoked this most recent discussion. I believe > >it was Gwyneth and Beth who publically protested Bargyla's > >patronizing Bible-thumping, but I don't think that either one of them > >were in any way discouraging a discussion of spirituality and > >agriculture. > > I would suggest that the reason there wasn't much response is that, > when there was--when Bargyla offered her views--she soon was attacked. > > She's got more courage than I do. From the response she got, > apparently there's not a lot of tolerance for diverse beliefs here. > And we apparently feel deeply threatened quite readily. > > Bargyla's words can be reduced as "narrow minded" "spoutings" or > "patronizing Bible-thumping." Who among us would assign these > categories to some of the equally strongly phrased, equally > opinionated writings valued by people on this list. Does the name > "Wendell Berry" ring any bells in this context? Wes Jackson? Jim > Hightower? > > >Quite the opposite. I think they were both reacting to > >big chunks of raw dogma hurled into this forum. Dogma is > >unprocessed, finger-wagging, ultimatum-laden "recipes" for life. > >It's also pretty hard to swallow, if you insist on digesting what you > >swallow. Raw dogma is what I hear when Bargyla gives her version > >of TRUTH. Spritual truth, the result of one's own internal > >processing and digesting, is real nutrition, and what I see as > >appropriate to the discussions here. It's more than just recognizing > >that there are other sacred texts (a la Alex's response; it's even > >deeper than that. There are also other ways of understanding the > >SAME sacred text. > > Anita, although I agree with you on the last sentence there--based on > 25 years of study of comparative religion and comparative mythology, > as well as walking my own spiritual paths--your words here come > across as no less dogmatic, to my eye. There are indeed many ways of > understanding the same thing, but no one is required to believe > anything other than what they do. And even those of us who believe > that we have broad, diverse minds have our own dogmatic spaces. > > Bargyla appears to be aware of her own biases, and admits to them. I > understand that in some faiths, "Know thyself" is the first and only > commandment. > > People are entitled to be dogmatic--being human may in fact ensure > it. Whether they choose to listen to others and modify their beliefs > is up to them. But writing them off, or alienating them, is likely > only to harden dogma with a sense of persecution. There is no > communication possible except between equals. And while answering > dogma with dogma can send us all to the kennels, I'd suggest that we > get farther when people actually say what they believe. Even when > that includes an unwillingness to change what they believe. > > As for things being hard to swallow, as Miss Piggy once said, "My > diet secret? Never eat anything you can't lift." > > >There is not one utterance or piece of writing > >which does not deserve your own reflection, questioning, and > >processing to make it your own if you are going to take it at all. I > >also don't think that anyone's temporal age on this planet has > >anything to do with it. A person who at even an advanced age still > >does not allow sacred words to penetrate her and integrate inside of > >her but rather continues to spout the raw dogma she was fed as a > >child, is, in my opinion, not wise according to her years. She may > >be brilliant when it comes to organic ag practices, but her > >understanding of religion and spirituality is still raw and > >undeveloped. > > This is uncalled for, in my view. I'm asking for a time-out. It is > not up to anyone on this list to judge anyone's "advancement" or > "understanding" or "brilliance." None of us has any way of knowing > what another's experience of the sacred has been. That is intimate > territory, between them and their divine. And anyone who knows their > *own* experience of the sacred so well that they have the latitude to > judge others' should be running for public office or taking the reins > of multinational corporations, because that clarity of vision is > sorely needed in high places. > > I'm deeply uncomfortable with this. If we can listen to the dogmas of > Chief Seattle (an often-referred-to wise elder), and other people we > will never know except through their writings, or other people's > written reports of their spoken works, how can we possibly judge > someone who bases their knowledge on Biblical writings? I'm also > confused as to why it is an elder woman who is bearing the brunt of > all this anger and projection, suddenly, and why it is women who are > the most vocal. > > On the days that I see fools everywhere, or another person as unwise, > I remember that I tend to see in others what I fear or dislike in > myself. > > Bargyla is, in my estimation, entitled to "thump" her Bible as hard > and as loudly as she wishes, if indeed that's what she's doing. My > deities are different than hers, and I do not feel threatened by the > fact that she sees hers as strongly as I see mine. Nor do I feel > uncomfortable that she would view me as a primitive animist, full of > superstitions. She would, I believe, dig in the dirt with me anyway. > We'd both, I believe, rescue worms from the sidewalk after a hard > rain. I do not believe that she'd ever intentionally cause me harm, > and if she caused me any unintentional harm, I sense that she'd > listen when I told her that, and try to make amends. > > She has not forced any of us to believe what she believes; she has > simply spoken her beliefs strongly. In her belief system, truth is > revealed, and is contained in a sacred book. The divine has not > spoken to me as it speaks to her. I talk to birds and the moon and > the sea and the stars, and quietly, smugly, pity those who don't, who > get their revelations from "lesser" sources. > > All that does, in my mind, is bear witness to the enormity of the > divine, and the complexity of its manifestations. All that does is > strengthen my sense that if I truly wish to know the divine, I'd best > start with knowing myself, and others, and be aware of my own > patterns of judgment. There is a place for *everyone* at the table, > and I don't think the deities will seat Bible-readers apart--at a > better table nor a worse one. > > > And I'm not saying this in a purposefully disrespectful > >way or just because I don't agree with something she might say, I say > >it because it just simply sounds like the same old rhetoric you can > >find on any intervenous-religion show on Sunday morning tv. There is > >a difference between something which comes from *inside* you (whether > >or not I agree with it) and something that is passed on, unprocessed, > >from the outside. > > Anita, it looks like you feel strongly about the relationship of an > individual's spirit to the revealed or internal or inherited truths, > but judging another's religion strikes me as inappropriate here. One > could argue that sustainable ag is the same old rhetoric you can find > in any 19th century Jeffersonian hemp-smoke-and- breakfast-brandy > vision of landedness, or in any 20th century heartland > sentimentalism. In fact, folks have dismissed sustainable ag in just > that way. It ain't science, it has to be foo foo. > > The only way out of that conundrum, it seems to me, is to step away > from judgment altogether. Which isn't possible. The next best thing, > then, is to be aware of one's patterns of judgment. > > I want to tell a story. In 1981, I was through-hiking the Appalachian > Trail. I got very ill while in the Smoky Mountains. After my > recuperation, my hiking partner and I were making our way back to the > AT--or trying to--by trying to hitch a ride in Asheville, NC, back > into the mountains. We were discouraged by many signs prohibiting > hitch-hiking. We were walking along a frontage road, night was > falling, we were exhausted and not sure how we'd get back to the > mountains. We didn't have a lot of money. > > Suddenly a big old car appeared, and the driver rolled down his > window. He said, "Looks like you folks could use a lift, can I help > you?" > > In brief, this man took us to his house, in a valley in Marshall, TN. > He and his wife fed us supper, did our laundry, did not ask who we > were or what our religion was. After supper they took us out, and we > walked their land in the valley. The man was especially proud of the > red-tailed hawk's nest in one of his big old trees. He protected it > with a shotgun against some of the less aware neighbors, who > apparently tried to use the birds for target practice. My hiking > partner was my boyfriend, and at this time, he had a big, bushy beard > and long hair and a dark dark tan. (On more than one occasion in > Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee, he was called a nigra. Just > as on more than one occasion, I was told that I was asking for rape, > wearing hiking shorts and a sleeveless shirt.) This man and his wife > must have noticed that we did not wear wedding rings, but they put us > up for the night in a shared room. They didn't ask questions. They > didn't judge us. The man said that he and his wife were sitting in a > restaurant, and saw us walk by, and said to each other, "Looks like > those folks could use a lift." > > The next morning, the man drove us to an AT trailhead. In the course > of 18 hours together I'd learned many things. > > I learned about the history of the area--Civil War history, more recent events. > > I learned about the natural history of the area--what was in bloom, > what animals were living where, where to find the best streams for > fresh, safe water, or for crayfish, or for fishing. Where some secret > trails were, with especially beautiful views. Where some of the > less-safe places for hikers were, in the upcoming stretch of trail. > > This man was a Baptist preacher. He was the equivalent of a bishop, > though he laughed and said that, with eighty-odd sects (at that time) > of Baptists, it didn't take much (and he winked) to become a bishop. > > He was a narrow-minded, dogmatic, fire n brimstone Bible thumper. He > described himself that way. He had personally seen and talked to god, > and to Jesus Christ. > > Mike (my hiking partner/boyfriend) and I talked about this for a long > time. This man challenged our beliefs, and did so in a way that I > never forgot. I didn't end up more like him in a particular > expression of faith...but I did end up understanding more about > diversity and tolerance. > > While he didn't express his beliefs in words, he did in actions. And > while we could judge and condemn the theory, we had been nourished by > the practice. > > About a week later, we were off the trail again, and needed a ride > back. This time, someone offered us a ride, an earnest young man with > a mess of gospel tracts, and a humungous amount of exposition of his > faith in Jesus Christ as his personal savior, as well as > autobiographical detail about his life journey from despair to > salvation. > > We saw someone offering us a ride, and sharing the truth that had > transformed and sustained him, and even made it possible that he > would extend strangers such courtesies. He pressured us to accept > Jesus. We said no, thank you, we had our deities in place. He let us > know he was concerned for our immortal souls. We said (and meant it), > thank you, that's really thoughtful of you. He let us know that he > was suffering, that we weren't saved. We offered him compassion, that > he could feel that deeply. He sent us on our way with his prayers. > > It is one thing if people are forced to believe something. That I > will speak out against, as strongly as I can. I have personal > experience with coercive faith. People of various faiths have, in my > lifetime, forced me, or tried to force me not to do things I've > needed to do, to walk with my deities as I experience them. People of > various faiths have prevented me from doing such things, as well. > These things happened at a time when I was not empowered to stand up > to them. And, yes, I know how it is, to have others be coercive in > this way--the personal costs of it. > > Bargyla is, in my estimation, is not coercing, was not coercing, and > could not coerce any of us to do or believe anything. All she did was > comment, strongly, on how her knowing of the truth is at odds with > other versions of the truth expressed here. She is entitled--as any > of us is--to experience, witness to, and walk with the divine as she > sees fit. Particularly when invited to. > > Many religious traditions suggest that judgment should be left to the > Judge. I don't know who that is. I know it's not me, and I suspect > that none of us on this list inherited that cosmic gavel, either. > > peace > misha > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michele Gale-Sinex > Communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > http://www.wisc.edu > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Harold: Maude, do you pray? > Maude: Pray? No, I communicate. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 09:30:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25200 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28708 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:49:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.2.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28693 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.2.16]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA37697; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncc.uky.edu.uky.edu ([128.163.196.145]) by pop.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA28798; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990824084742.006b3050@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: toria@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:47:42 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, naos@agron.iastate.edu, iffs@nal.usda.org From: Victoria Mundy Subject: Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2321 Apologies for cross posting...... Some of us on SANET are going to hold an off-list discussion of what the scriptures of different religions have to say about agriculture. If you would like to join us, please send me an e-mail off list and I'll add your name to the mailings. Thanks to those who have already responded This conversation will be limited to August 26-Sept. 1, so that we don't get a whole new listserv! You do not have to be a religious scholar by any stretch of the imagination (I'm sure not) and you may simply listen although I hope everyone will contribute at least a little something. Any scripture from any religion is fair game. If your religion doesn't have scriptures, stories are welcome. We will simply be comparing what the different writings and stories say, NOT in any way discussing which is better or more true or more worthy. The more the merrier, everyone is welcome who is willing to follow the basic ground rules of courtesy, respect, and non-judgmental listening. Hoping many will join us and looking forward to it, Victoria ************************************* Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy N106R Ag. Sci. North, UK Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 09:46:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25396 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12847 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:12:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umx-mail01.missouri.edu (umx-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.221]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12810 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umx-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:11:48 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: "'sanet'" , "'sustainag'" Cc: "Hoette, Gary D." Subject: FYI Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:11:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2322 Some of us in MO are following this very closely. Thought some of you might like to see this. debi kelly, MAC > -----Original Message----- > From: Hoette, Gary D. > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 7:58 AM > To: UM UOE IPAST > Subject: > > Dear Friends, > > I thought you would be interested in the following news item about > consumer opinions about consolidation in food and agriculture. > > http://www.dreyfus.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=Cn8iyWbWbtu5uvtaWmW&Top > ic=Agriculture > > Gary To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 11:26:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27222 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22357 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:20:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22322 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:19:28 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DDC6@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "SANET-MG (E-mail)" Subject: Truth and Belief Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:19:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2323 Sanet; It's all a matter of belief - the mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something. All facts depend on beliefs because all proofs rely on beliefs concerning the appropriate process for separating fact from fallacy. This does not imply that all truth is relative, or that truth is determined by beliefs. It means that truth quite simply has more than one dimension. Thus, a person with one set of beliefs may see one dimension of truth while a person with another set of beliefs sees another. Truth cannot be whatever we might wish for it to be, truth exists as an absolute. Some things are false and others are true. But, those things that are true have more than one dimension. The more dimensions of truth we are able to see, the more we are able to understand it. Our unique beliefs limit us individually to seeing only one dimension of truth. We can see other dimensions of truth only through those who hold beliefs different from our own. At least, that is what I believe. John Ikerd For those who believe No proof is necessary. For those who don't believe No proof is possible. John and Lyn St. Clair Thomas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 11:43:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27540 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:11:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postal.indy.net (postal.indy.net [199.3.65.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21067 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from indy4.indy.net (root@indy4 [199.3.65.4]) by postal.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24636; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:11:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ip209-183-86-59.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.59]) by indy4.indy.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA10702; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:12:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37C26DDE.36D1@indy.net> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:03:10 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha CC: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Time out References: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2324 > Misha wrote > > how can we possibly judge > someone who bases their knowledge on Biblical writings? Just an observation, I believe the bible was written by human beings who at the time thought for example among other things 1) eclipses were a message from the heavens 2) the earth was flat I'm not judging anyone. Just questioning their references and sources. Later, Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 12:06:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27929 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00184 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:24:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00115 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:24:48 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 862567D7.00546438; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:21:46 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 862567D7.00548F24 ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:23:36 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu, direct-mkt@reeusda.gov, jholley@tmn.com, pdpstco@unl.edu Message-ID: <862567D7.00548D40.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:23:29 -0500 Subject: NC SARE -- Call for Marketing Resources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2325 CALL FOR MARKETING RESOURCES for a MARKETING CONFERENCE NOTEBOOK Alternative Agricultural Marketing: Developing Skills for the New Millennium **A Conference Sponsored by the North Central Region SARE Program** Nov. 19-20, 1999 Lincoln, Nebraska The North Central Region SARE program is developing a marketing resources notebook for conference participants and others. (Let me know if you are interested in a copy!) The marketing notebook is intended to reinforce and supplement information presented at the conference. The diverse audience for the notebook includes farmers and ranchers, educators and others working with farmers and a variety of food and farming groups and business representatives, including small-scale processors and retailers. To find notebook resources, I will search various listerve archives, websites and Sustainable Ag Network (SAN) publications, as well as consult with marketing organizations and nonprofit groups. We invite additional suggestions for resources (books, magazines, newsletters, electronic resources, organizations, programs, events, etc.) that explore the following topics as related to alternative ag marketing: Business planning Marketing and merchandising Using the Internet Farmer co-ops and networks Consumer connections and education Institutional marketing Local food systems Retail/wholesale markets Restaurant sales On-farm/small-scale processing Value added products Miscellaneous alternative/direct marketing resources Please submit materials and suggestions to: Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. PO Box 830840 Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) lbauer2@unl.edu For more information about the marketing conference, contact me or please see http://www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!! Lisa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 12:52:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28634 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23884 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:02:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23858 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28987 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA16980; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:59:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-245.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.245) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011544; Tue Aug 24 10:31:06 1999 Message-ID: <009901beee45$8b428860$98fe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Bargyla Rateaver" , "Paul Schmitmeyer" Cc: "Sanet" Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!! Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:30:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0096_01BEEE24.011D8DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2326 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BEEE24.011D8DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Someone on another list was looking for info on raw food. Do you have a = book or web page to recommend. I include recipes in my CSA newletter, I = don't mind including non-recipes. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Bargyla Rateaver To: Paul Schmitmeyer Cc: Sanet Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 1:36 AM Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!! =20 =20 What is really needed is not a COOKING food book, but a book of = really good, interesting, different, satisfying book of how to prepare = RAW food. Half the nation of US is dying of cancer. It is time for = people to forget cooking and learn to enjoy raw food.=20 I think it is so shocking--when I was a child, someone with = cancer was so rare, and we all would worry if it was catching. Now, = EVERY OTHER PERSON YOU KNOW WILL DIE OF CANCER.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BEEE24.011D8DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Someone on another list was looking = for info on=20 raw food.  Do you have a book or web page to recommend.  I = include=20 recipes in my CSA newletter, I don't mind including non-recipes. =20 Beth
    -----Original = Message-----
    From:=20 Bargyla Rateaver <brateaver@earthlink.net>To:=20 Paul Schmitmeyer <ps@erinet.com>
    Cc: = Sanet <sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu>
    Date:=20 Tuesday, August 24, 1999 1:36 AM
    Subject: Re: Good For = You=20 Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!!

    What is really = needed=20 is not a COOKING food book, but a book of really good, interesting,=20 different, satisfying book of how to prepare RAW food.  Half = the nation=20 of US is dying of cancer. It is time for people to forget cooking = and learn=20 to enjoy raw food.
        I think it is so = shocking--when I=20 was a child, someone with cancer was so rare, and we all would worry = if it=20 was catching. Now, EVERY OTHER PERSON YOU KNOW WILL DIE OF CANCER.=20

     

    ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01BEEE24.011D8DE0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 14:46:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00510 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26781 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:52:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA26594 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:52:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id MAA08525; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:51:51 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma007733; Tue, 24 Aug 99 12:51:23 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:51:25 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:51:23 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEB8@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: SANET-mg Cc: "'Misha'" Subject: RE: Food irradiation Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:51:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2327 Misha, > Can someone explain to me how food irradiation is so selective that > it can disrupt the cellular processes of the microbes that cause > rotting, with the effect of killing them, but will not disrupt the > cellular or molecular processes or structure of the food itself? Rotting is mediated by microorganisms that must reproduce to rot the food. One of the main effects of ionizing radiation is to cause single-strand breaks in DNA. The direct and immediate damage is small and localized, and most of the DNA can function normally. But when the DNA is replicated, as when a bacterium divides, all hell breaks loose, and large deletions can occur. This is likely to be lethal to the progeny. An analogous situation is radiotherapy to kill tumors. Irradiating the brain is relatively safe because adult nerve cells do not divide, and radiotherapy is often good for treatment of brain tumors whose cells are actively dividing. Irradiation of the digestive system or skin is very harmful because cells in these tissues continue to divide. This is why anti-cancer treatments make people sick. > Or is it accepted that irradiation *will* disrupt the cellular or > molecular processes/structure of the food itself, but that what's bad > for the "rotting agents" is OK for the nourishing agents? I don't think they use doses of radiation high enough to kill fruits and vegetables outright (of course, some food items are not alive when we buy them anyway). Irradiation of food products can cause chemical changes in food. Ionizing radiation produces hydroxyl radicals in water. These very powerful oxidants trigger oxidative chain-reactions that can alter flavor, and destroy certain vitamins. But such reactions are not unique to ionizing radiation. Cooking, age, iron, light, and exposure to oxygen cause oxidative chain reactions. I think it is unfair to make a blanket condemnation of food irradiation because it can damage vitamins or flavor. I don't have the data at hand, but the losses may be minor compared to processes like blanching, canning, or drying. > I want to know the answer from the > food-irradiation-proponents' point of view. I'm not sure I qualify as a proponent. I just don't understand what all the fuss is about. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 16:11:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02638 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10999 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:11:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10895 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.209] (br-ppp03.hevanet.com [198.5.254.209]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08316; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908241910.MAA08316@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:42:51 -0700 Subject: FW: Scientific Help for Tennessee Valley Soils From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2328 This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Scientific Help for Tennessee Valley Soils Date: Tue, Aug 24, 1999, 4:35 AM NEWS RELEASE: USDA Researchers Help Farmers Preserve Tennessee Valley Soils ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov August 24, 1999 ----------- Auburn, Ala., Aug. 24--U.S. Department of Agriculture and Auburn University scientists are teaming up on a joint project to help cotton growers correct soil problems in the Tennessee Valley, which includes Tennessee and parts of Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia. "Although the land is very fertile, the soils in this area are heavily eroded and heavily compacted, and plant roots don't extend very deep into the soil," said Agricultural Research Service Administrator Floyd P. Horn. "About 60 percent of the soil in the Valley is highly erodible. Years of conventional tillage, coupled with little crop rotation, have severely depleted the soil organic matter, in some areas to less than 1 percent." Conservation agronomist Ben Moore with USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service in Troy, Ala., has worked with Valley farmers to help them comply with conservation management alternatives required by the Food Security Act of 1985. Growers who followed these conservation practices in earlier years had reduced yields. "That's mainly because crops previously grown under conservation tillage were not as competitive as those grown under conventional tillage," Moore said. Agronomist D. Wayne Reeves and agricultural engineer Randy L. Raper, with ARS' National Soil Dynamics Laboratory, in Auburn, Ala., were asked to help growers develop soil management systems that would protect the soil from erosion, which also allows them to maintain or improve cotton yields, reduce input costs and improve soil quality. In field studies, Reeves found deep tilling to 17 inches and planting a rye cover crop in fall increases yields and reduces soil compaction. Three-year average yields for this system were about 1,040 pounds of lint per acre. "Our best conservation tillage treatment gave yields that were 14 percent higher than conventional tillage and 18 percent higher than no tillage without using a cover crop, the system Tennessee Valley farmers adopted when they first went to conservation tillage," Reeves said. "At current prices for cotton, fall deep tillage in combination with a rye cover crop paid for itself more than three times over." An in-depth article appears in the August issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/aug99/tenn0899.htm ---------- Scientific contacts: D. Wayne Reeves and Randy L. Raper, ARS National Soil Dynamics Laboratory, Auburn, Ala., phone (334) 844-4666 [Reeves], (334) 844-4654 [Raper], wreeves@acesag.auburn.edu, rlraper@eng.auburn.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 16:26:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02912 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21299 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21197 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01876 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:37:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA03761 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:26:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: 8-24-99 3:22 PM EDT PBS TOTN Factory Farming With Pigs & Chickens Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2329 Turn on your FM radios, tune in PBS for: 8-24-99 3:00 PM EDT PBS TOTN Factory Farming With Pigs & Chickens Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 16:28:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02940 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23062 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22954 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA25593; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:29:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-245.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.245) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025552; Tue Aug 24 14:29:27 1999 Message-ID: <00f201beee66$d8aace20$98fe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "SANET-mg" Cc: "'Misha'" Subject: Re: Food irradiation Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:28:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2330 >Ah but the waste products can go in the compost pile!:) Plus cooking, blanching etc is a choice(the consumere makes) in "processing" radiation is done to "raw" food. Beth >radiation. Cooking, age, iron, light, and exposure to oxygen cause >oxidative chain reactions. I think it is unfair to make a blanket >condemnation of food irradiation because it can damage vitamins or flavor. >I don't have the data at hand, but the losses may be minor compared to >processes like blanching, canning, or drying. > >> I want to know the answer from the >> food-irradiation-proponents' point of view. > >I'm not sure I qualify as a proponent. I just don't understand what all the >fuss is about. > >Dale > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 19:00:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11657 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA03112 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:11:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nygate.undp.org (nygate.undp.org [192.124.42.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03040 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umka.undp.org (umka.undp.org [192.124.42.40]) by nygate.undp.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.3) with ESMTP id SAA18873 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet01.hq.undp.org ([127.0.0.1]) by umka.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4978 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:05:52 -0400 Received: from undp.org ([165.65.10.98]) by inet01.hq.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA287A for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:01:52 -0400 Message-ID: <37C31540.7A462D05@undp.org> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:57:20 -0400 From: "David Fazzino" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest References: <199908212210.SAA20242@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------61098D278C31663B12A06AB1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2331 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------61098D278C31663B12A06AB1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I have a couple of questions regarding mushroom production. First, in regards to production in the United States, are there alternatives to the addition of animal manure in the production of Agaricus sp (white button mushrooms). Second what is the possibility of utilizing mushrooms to increase food security (either via subsistence or increased income) in less developed countries? Are there organizations/individuals who have worked with this concept in the past? Any contact information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, David Fazzino --------------61098D278C31663B12A06AB1 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for david.fazzino@undp.org Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: david.fazzino@undp.org n: ;david.fazzino@undp.org email;internet: david.fazzino@undp.org x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------61098D278C31663B12A06AB1-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 19:07:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11790 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14673 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:30:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA14643 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id RAA05050; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:29:28 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma004872; Tue, 24 Aug 99 17:29:10 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:29:11 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:29:09 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEBC@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: SANET-mg Cc: "'Dan Hook'" Subject: RE: Food irradiation Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:29:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2332 Beth, > ...cooking, blanching etc is a choice(the consumere makes) in > "processing" radiation is done to "raw" food. It is also done to preserve processed or cooked food, as an alternative to pressure canning or dehydration. But your point about choice is a good one, but one that has a lot of precedent. Many see irradiation, at least in the meat context, as a public health issue. Public policy often circumvents free choice in the interest of personal safety. An example is helmet laws for motorcyclists. A lot of people prefer to ride without a helmet. Should that be illegal? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 19:55:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12540 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15505 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:15:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA15492 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:15:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 25975 invoked from network); 24 Aug 1999 23:14:48 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-06.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.178) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 1999 23:14:48 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990824185652.009805c0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:14:44 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: RE: Food irradiation and motorcycle helmets In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEBC@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2333 Dale Wilson wrote: >Many see irradiation, at least in the >meat context, as a public health issue. Public policy often circumvents >free choice in the interest of personal safety. An example is helmet laws >for motorcyclists. A lot of people prefer to ride without a helmet. Should >that be illegal? I don't see these as analogous issues. There is no question about what happens when an unprotected skull hits the pavement at 60 miles per hour. There are still legitimate questions about what happens when irradiated foodstuffs are consumed as part of a long-term diet. It is not yet clear, to me and many others, that the connection between public policy and personal safety has been made for irradiated foods. Food safety is a public issue, of course, but irradiation is being promoted as a cure-all measure for food-borne disease problems that might better be solved by other means. If you keep banging yourself upside the head with a hammer, and as a result get a headache, should you take a high-strength pain reliever or should you stop banging yourself upside the head with a hammer? Before we start nuking everything we eat, perhaps we should look at how the food is grown, what's being fed to it, and how it is handled and processed on its way to the consumer. Maybe the problems could be solved there. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 22:09:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14243 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23593 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:55:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23578 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:55:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-67ppp197.epix.net [199.224.67.197]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999072601/PL) with ESMTP id UAA23061; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37C340C5.B066484B@epix.net> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:03:02 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cecile Mills CC: Julie , Sustainable Ag Net Subject: Re: Agriculturelaw.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2334 Cecile Mills wrote: > > > This past week, the Secretary of Agriculture in California visited his > FIRST organic farm. I believe the people in the forefront of mainstream > agriculture are ignorant in the true sense of the word--why else would they > exclude organic information and resources? The U.S. Deputy Secretary of Ag, Richard Ruminger, has a son who has an organic farm in CA. He is one who I think has at least some understanding of the needs of sustainable farming, but I will say that I don't know his political track record very well. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 23:06:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14864 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16366 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:12:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16259 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp42.blueriver.mwt.net [156.46.253.169]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA22088 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:07:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <007001beee9f$1ccf21e0$a9fd2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: References: Subject: Re: 8-24-99 3:22 PM EDT PBS TOTN Factory Farming With Pigs & Chickens Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:11:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2335 If you missed it live, go to http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/ and then 'latest shows'...it is the Hour Two segment...listen to it via RealPlayer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence F. London, Jr. To: Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 2:26 PM Subject: 8-24-99 3:22 PM EDT PBS TOTN Factory Farming With Pigs & Chickens > > > Turn on your FM radios, tune in PBS for: > > 8-24-99 3:00 PM EDT PBS TOTN Factory Farming With Pigs & Chickens > > Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm > london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net > http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech > EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 24 23:13:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14988 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25879 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:27:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25813 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA23388 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:26:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-203.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.203) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma023238; Tue Aug 24 21:25:28 1999 Message-ID: <011901beeea0$f80e0900$98fe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "SANET-mg" Subject: Re: Food irradiation Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:24:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2336 Yikes Dale, Ya pushed a button on that one :). I am trained as a physical therapist and as a student I had a motercycle accident victim as a patient about the only thing not broken on him was his head. Massachusetts helmet law probably saved it. Neighboring NH the joke is something to the effect that their motercycles are donormobiles. >Beth, > >> ...cooking, blanching etc is a choice(the consumere makes) in >> "processing" radiation is done to "raw" food. > >It is also done to preserve processed or cooked food, as an alternative to >pressure canning or dehydration. But your point about choice is a good one, >but one that has a lot of precedent. Many see irradiation, at least in the >meat context, as a public health issue. Public policy often circumvents >free choice in the interest of personal safety. An example is helmet laws >for motorcyclists. A lot of people prefer to ride without a helmet. Should >that be illegal? > >Dale > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 04:27:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA18266 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17348 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:53:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17174 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:53:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d39-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.39]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA21529; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:52:01 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Bluestem Associates" , "sanet-mg" Subject: early bloomers/late frost/mulch, was ....RE: I'm Ok, You're Ok Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:57:21 +1000 Message-ID: <000001beeecf$76048040$273325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2337 Bart wrote: >For you and any other folks needing to retard early bloomers, you can usually delay them about 3 to 15 days by mulching the roots heavily as winter nears its end. Keeping the trees' feet colder (because the mulch insulates them) simply makes it harder to get the sap flowing up to the buds, and they don't bloom as early. I've been thinking about this Bart. We have been heavy mulchers generally, having started trees with a comfrey barrier against Kikuyu grass, mowing the grass sideways into the comfrey through the summer, chopping the comfrey regularly, ending the season with a depth of really good litter breaking down. Our winters are generally dry. But with some more woolly aphid on trees this last year [perhaps also because the trees had gone unpruned and it was pretty dark and dank in places] I had been thinking that we should, for plant/soil health, be clearing away the litter in the winter, and letting the sun onto the ground while the leaves are off. Any thoughts on that. Also, to have the effect that you point to, I imagine that you'd need to have the mulch pretty well out to the drip line. Yes? As I say, our place tends to be in a winter rain shadow. This is generally pretty advantageous in avoiding mouldiness in winter. It sounds like work to me, but maybe the smart thing would be to try to [a] clear mulch at leaf fall [end of our May, into June] and get that material into compost [b] water well late July, while putting down mulch again (question for me - where from?), the watering being [1] to top up soil moisture before the spring [2] add a bit more thermal inertia, to keep it cooler longer [3] to be in under the mulch and stay there longer. any thoughts? - Bart or others.. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 09:15:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20886 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14522 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:36:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14472 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:36:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:37:51 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.149] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A335B33E01DC; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:36:05 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg" Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:33:17 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: early bloomers/late frost/mulch Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2338 On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:57:21 +1000, Argall Family wrote: > We have been heavy mulchers generally, >having started trees with a comfrey barrier against Kikuyu grass, Golly, talk about weed versus weed! >But with some more woolly aphid on trees this last year [perhaps also >because the trees had gone unpruned and it was pretty dark and dank in >places] I had been thinking that we should, for plant/soil health, be >clearing away the litter in the winter, and letting the sun onto the ground >while the leaves are off. I'd sure start with pruning for better ventilation. It's a lot easier than clearing away half decomposed mulch, and may be more effective. If nothing else it would allow for better coverage with one of the contact organic-acceptable insecticides such as the speciality soaps. >Also, to have the effect that you point to, I imagine that you'd need to >have the mulch pretty well out to the drip line. I'd actually start from about 50 cm outside the dripline and work my way in, leaving an open are of about 50 cm radius around the trunk to impede rambunctious rummaging rodents. My mulch of choice would be clean straw. By about the end of July you might wish to lean a wide plank up against the north or northwest side of the trunk to keep the afternoon sun from warming it. >It sounds like work to me, but maybe the smart thing would be to try to [a] >clear mulch at leaf fall [end of our May, into June] and get that material >into compost [b] water well late July, while putting down mulch again >(question for me - where from?), the watering being [1] to top up soil >moisture before the spring [2] add a bit more thermal inertia, to keep it >cooler longer [3] to be in under the mulch and stay there longer. Sounds like a plan. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 10:00:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21723 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09571 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:21:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09484 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:21:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10383; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002d01beeefc$a3a4ac00$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "Amy and Eric Johnson" , "sanet-mg" , Subject: Re: yellow ladybugs Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:20:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2339 I'm not sure if the original writer has lady beetles or something else. Lady beetles feed on sources of sugar (like honeydew produced by their aphid prey), but I think usually the fruit would have to already be damaged and juice leaking out before the lady beetles would feed. Another possibility would be sap beetles or picnic beetles, a group that specializes in feeding on oozing juices. I'm afraid I don't have enough information to know what you are likely to have. About cucumber beetles and cucurbitacin: cucurbitacin is a feeding stimulant, but does not volatilize into the air, so it does not attract the beetles from a distance. The work done with cucurbitacin has been with mixing the feeding stimulant with an insecticide to get the beetles to eat the insecticide. Thus, a smaller amount of insecticide per acre can be used. There is a formulated product, called "Adios" that uses this strategy. The insecticide used is carbaryl. I believe that it may be possible to buy dried powdered extracts from buffalo gourd, which is high in cucurbitacins. Mike Hoffmann, of Cornell University, has worked with volatile attractants that attract the cucumber beetles over a longer distance. He has found that a mixture of three chemicals, (1,2,4 trimethoxybenzene, indole, and trans-cinnamaldehyde) are an effective attractant. All these chemicals are available from specialty chemical companies (Sigma, Aldrich, etc.), but are not available in a farmer-friendly mixture. None are very hazardous, but require some safety precautions (a chemical hood, gloves, safety glasses). Mike is working on a system where these chemicals would be incorporated in a yellow cloth along with an insecticide. Kim Stoner -----Original Message----- From: Amy and Eric Johnson To: sanet-mg ; maroc@islandnet.com Date: Monday, August 23, 1999 12:12 PM Subject: yellow ladybugs >Sounds like you've got spotted cucumber beetles to me! Are they a yellowish >green? And are they somewhat more elongated than normal ladybugs? A guide to >identifying insects is an invaluable tool, look in the gardening section of >your library or bookstore, or do a web search on cucumber beetles > >check out >http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Vegetables/veg025e/img_twob.htm > >http://ipmwww.ncsu.edu/PEST_ID/pestid.html > >We've got these pesky critters in abundance this year since our drip >irrigation is keeping the gardens alive while all our neighbors gardens are >dry and dead. > >Cucumber beetles are especially problematic (especially on members of the >squash family) as they transmit bacterial and/or viral wilt disease >organisms. I started with insecticidal soap, then neem, and am ready to get >out the rotenone soon if I don't see any drop in their numbers. I've also >got some yellow sticky traps out near the blossoms of my pumpkins, they're >attracted to yellow. > >BTW- anybody know where I can buy the cucurbitan (spelling?) pheromone so I >can increase the effectiveness of my sticky traps? > >Amy in VA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 10:59:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22902 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08774 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:09:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08761 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.010AD5E1@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:05:24 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 25 Aug 99 10:08:35 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 25 Aug 99 10:08:17 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:08:14 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: truth and belief In-reply-to: <199908242210.SAA02553@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <8B342C91A42@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2340 > From: "Ikerd, John E." > Subject: Truth and Belief > > Sanet; > > It's all a matter of belief - the mental acceptance of and conviction in the > truth, actuality, or validity of something. This may often be true, especially when we are influenced by unexamined (or, for that matter, openly accepted) prejudices. However, most of us have also had the experience of nuetral and open mind whereupon we go about searching for an answer that is satisfactory, and, at least at the outset, the outcome is uncertain. After searching, questioning, and probing, we may all find different answers to what seemed like the same question originally. It will most likely illustrate that we are simply all a little off target -- that the universal truth of the Universe and the Meaning of Life is a tricky thing to get ahold of. But having all done the work to get where we got, we could then sit down and have a really interesting discussion. I submit to you that the discussion is far less meaningful and interesting if had among people who decided the answer without ever even going looking for it. So, you might say, who am I to decide that Bargyla has not examined her beliefs? No one in particular, I suppose, I just haven't seen evidence of it. Just like she always says that 50% of the population will get cancer without showing us how she got there (and in fact when she was given contrary information, it didn't seem to make much of a difference). I know that many of you reacted strongly and negatively to my recent long post on religious dogma and spiritual beliefs (Misha was probably just the spokesperson for many). I heard that you thought I was the real judgemental and narrow minded protagonist of the story. I gotcha. I appologize for being less diplomatic than I might have been. I was feeling brave, and frank at that moment and not afraid to "stir it up." Just for the record, my intention was not to invalidate Bargyla as a person (or to "shut her up" -- I'm not a bully). Questioning the validity of a person's science (if you will permit me to use the idea of "spiritual science") is not the same as saying the person him/herself doesn't have worth. (Btw, the original meaning of "I'm ok, you're ok" is the recognition of the basic worth of one's self and others.) My intention was to point out that there are beliefs which are taken in unexamined and those which are thoroughly questioned and examined before they are allowed to permeate the believer. Put me on the side of Socrates who preferred hemlock to living the unexamined life. I don't think you should accept organic agriculture either based on blind faith -- or anything else for that matter. Here's my basic belief: the end does not justify the means. (If the means are blind and unexamined, then the end is of not much value.) Anita (having probably perched myself at the end of a limb again and considering the possibility that I will be misunderstood and will offend again, but taking that chance.) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 14:03:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26950 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24673 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:27:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24656 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990825172709.6539.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.138.60] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:27:09 PDT Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:27:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: GMO's and Europe's banking community To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2341 >From the progressive review's website -> GUARDIAN (LONDON): Europe's biggest bank has advisedthe world's largest investors to sell their shares in leading companies involved in the development of genetically modified organisms because consumers do not want to buy their products. In a report sent to several thousand of the world's large institutional investors, including British pension funds, Deutsche Bank says that "growing negative sentiment" is creating problems for the leading companies, including Monsanto and Novartis. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 14:43:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27740 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:43:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09583 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:59:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA09569 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id MAA10782; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:58:22 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma010292; Wed, 25 Aug 99 12:58:03 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:58:07 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:58:03 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEBD@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Cass Peterson'" Subject: RE: Food irradiation and motorcycle helmets Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:57:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2342 Cass, >> A lot of people prefer to ride without a helmet. Should >> that be illegal? > I don't see these as analogous issues. There is no question > about what happens when an unprotected skull hits the pavement > at 60 miles per hour. There are still legitimate questions > about what happens when irradiated foodstuffs are consumed > as part of a long-term diet. This reminds me of my time in Colombia. WEARING a helmet was illegal in Cali because helmets made it harder to identify the motorcycle-riding assassins so common in Colombia. So I guess risk assessment is a political issue (but I'll bet a lot more Colombians were killed in motorcycle accidents than by assassins!) > It is not yet clear, to me and many others, that the connection > between public policy and personal safety has been made for > irradiated foods. Do I really need to do a literature search and trot out statistics about how many thousands of people are made ill or killed each year from E-coli or Salmonella from meat? I'm sure many of these could have been prevented by irradiation. > Food safety is a public issue, of course, but irradiation is > being promoted as a cure-all measure for food-borne disease > problems that might better be solved by other means. First, I have never heard this called a "cure all" by proponents of irradiation. They regard it as just another santitation tool. Second, the argument you make is like saying "helmet laws are not needed since the root cause is people driving too fast and not being careful." Sure, if everybody (every single person on the line) was more responsible and careful in the meat industry, irradiation might not be needed. But shit (literally) happens, things go wrong, people are inattentive, unseen mistakes occur. This is true even in small scale production. The problem in large scale production is that a minute amount of fecal material could contaminate 100,000 pounds of ground beef, and hurt thousands of people in one shot. The advantage of top-down regulation like helmet laws and irradiation of meat, is that it provides a back-up safety system in case personal morality and responsibility are inconsistent (as they always are in large human systems like highways and meat packing plants). > Before we start nuking everything we eat, perhaps we should > look at how the food is grown, what's being fed to it,.... Despite your inflammatory language, the argument against irradiation really comes down to whether or not the practice has any deleterious side-effects, and how serious they are. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 14:58:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28035 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08377 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:56:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08258 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25938; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:34:50 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Health effects/GMO L-tryptophan Cc: mister3d@third-dimension.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2343 Howdy, all-- While doing a brief search on migraine and ophthalmic migraine, I ran across a World Wide Web site that I thought some of you GMO watchers might be interested in. It's the site of the the National Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome Network, Inc., a non-profit organization that supports people with this condition. The network also encourages "research to improve treatment for L-tryptophan-induced EMS" and works toward "increasing awareness of the cause and effects of the disease." A backgrounder in the group's words: "In the fall of 1989, three patients in New Mexico were found to have extremely high eosinophil counts in their blood and were suffering from severe myalgias (muscle pain and spasms). Upon investigation it was determined that all three had ingested a petrochemically and genetically engineered product labeled L-Tryptophan. L-T in its natural form is an amino acid found in such products as milk and turkey. Within weeks the number of cases exploded into an epidemic of over 1,500 cases in the U.S. This new disease became known as Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome (EMS). Victims of EMS were suffering in unrelenting degrees of pain. Many became totally and permanently incapacitated, a number were on life support equipment and scores of EMS victims died." The site provides medical and experiential documentation of the illness, the believed cause, and other issues. I pass it along for your interest and evaluation. There are some interesting perspectives there--a combination of the precautionary principle (affected patients and their families who feel they've been used as guinea pigs in genetic engineering) and risk assessment (there are links to research on the topic). And of course plenty of assertions by the medical community that, see?, we always TOLD you supplements could be harmful! I'm not saying that this isn't true, but it intrigues me that, at a time when iatrogenic causes account for so much patient illness and death, prominent members of the medical community are so excitedly pointing fingers elsewhere, instead of at themselves. It's always easier to project blame than to take responsibility, and much more lucrative to quash questions and dissenting opinion than to build it into research agendas. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I MAKE friends. They're toys. My friends are toys. I make them. It's a hobby. I'm a genetic designer. --J.F. Sebastian (William Sanderson, /Blade Runner/) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 15:03:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28351 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16861 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:08:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice.mr.net (maillist.MR.Net [137.192.180.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16840 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by postoffice.mr.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12009 at Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:07:51 -0500 (CDT) SMTP "HELO" = [199.199.192.132] But _really_ from norshor2-1.nas.mr.net [199.199.192.131] SMTP "MAIL FROM" = alliance@mr.net SMTP "RCPT TO" = Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:10:59 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, genetics@gn.apc.org From: Ronnie Cummins Subject: Hazards of GE Foods & Crops: Why We Need A Global Moratorium Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2344 Campaign for Food Safety News #21 August 24, 1999 News and Analysis on Genetic Engineering, Factory Farming, & Organics by: Ronnie Cummins & Ben Lilliston Campaign for Food Safety Affiliated with the Organic Consumers Association ___________________________________________________________________ Hazards of Genetically Engineered Foods and Crops: Why We Need A Global Moratorium by: Ronnie Cummins, Director, Campaign for Food Safety/Organic Consumers Association The technology of genetic engineering (GE), wielded by transnational "life science" corporations such as Monsanto and Novartis, is the practice of altering or disrupting the genetic blueprints of living organisms--plants, animals, humans, microorganisms--patenting them, and then selling the resulting gene-foods, seeds, or other products for profit. Life science corporations proclaim, with great fanfare, that their new products will make agriculture sustainable, eliminate world hunger, cure disease, and vastly improve public health. In reality, through their business practices and political lobbying, the gene engineers have made it clear that they intend to use GE to dominate and monopolize the global market for seeds, foods, fiber, and medical products. GE is a revolutionary new technology still in its early experimental stages of development. This technology has the power to break down fundamental genetic barriers--not only between species--but between humans, animals, and plants. By randomly inserting together the genes of non-related species--utilizing viruses, antibiotic-resistant genes, and bacteria as vectors, markers, and promoters--and permanently altering their genetic codes, gene-altered organisms are created that pass these genetic changes onto their offspring through heredity. Gene engineers all over the world are now snipping, inserting, recombining, rearranging, editing, and programming genetic material. Animal genes and even human genes are randomly inserted into the chromosomes of plants, fish, and animals, creating heretofore unimaginable transgenic life forms. For the first time in history, transnational biotechnology corporations are becoming the architects and "owners" of life. With little or no regulatory restraints, labeling requirements, or scientific protocol, bio-engineers have begun creating hundreds of new GE "Frankenfoods" and crops, oblivious to human and environmental hazards, or negative socioeconomic impacts on the world's several billion farmers and rural villagers. Despite an increasing number of scientists warning that current gene-splicing techniques are crude, inexact, and unpredictable--and therefore inherently dangerous--pro-biotech governments and regulatory agencies, led by the US, maintain that GE foods and crops are "substantially equivalent" to conventional foods, and therefore require neither mandatory labeling nor pre-market safety-testing. This Brave New World of Frankenfoods is frightening. There are currently more than four dozen genetically engineered foods and crops being grown or sold in the US. These foods and crops are widely dispersed into the food chain and the environment. Over 70 million acres of GE crops are presently under cultivation in the US, while up to 500,000 dairy cows are being injected regularly with Monsanto's recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH). Most supermarket processed food items now "test positive" for the presence of GE ingredients. In addition several dozen more GE crops are in the final stages of development and will soon be released into the environment and sold in the marketplace. According to the biotechnology industry almost 100% of US food and fiber will be genetically engineered within 5-10 years. The "hidden menu" of these unlabeled genetically engineered foods and food ingredients in the US now includes soybeans, soy oil, corn, potatoes, squash, canola oil, cotton seed oil, papaya, tomatoes, and dairy products. Genetic engineering of food and fiber products is inherently unpredictable and dangerous--for humans, for animals, the environment, and for the future of sustainable and organic agriculture. As Dr. Michael Antoniou, a British molecular scientist points out, gene-splicing has already resulted in the "unexpected production of toxic substances... in genetically engineered bacteria, yeast, plants, and animals with the problem remaining undetected until a major health hazard has arisen." The hazards of GE foods and crops fall basically into three categories: human health hazards, environmental hazards, and socioeconomic hazards. A brief look at the already-proven and likely hazards of GE products provides a convincing argument for why we need a global moratorium on all GE foods and crops. Toxins & Poisons Genetically engineered products clearly have the potential to be toxic and a threat to human health. In 1989 a genetically engineered brand of L-tryptophan, a common dietary supplement, killed 37 Americans and permanently disabled or afflicted more than 5,000 others with a potentially fatal and painful blood disorder, eosinophilia myalgia syndrome (EMS), before it was recalled by the Food and Drug Administration. The manufacturer, Showa Denko, Japan's third largest chemical company, had for the first time in 1988-89 used GE bacteria to produce the over-the-counter supplement. It is believed that the bacteria somehow became contaminated during the recombinant DNA process. Showa Denko has already paid out over $2 billion in damages to EMS victims. In 1999, front-page headline stories in the British press revealed Rowett Institute scientist Dr. Arpad Pusztai's explosive research findings that GE potatoes, spliced with DNA from the snowdrop plant and a commonly used viral promoter, the Cauliflower Mosaic Virus (CaMv), are poisonous to mammals. GE-snowdrop potatoes, found to be significantly different in chemical composition from regular potatoes, damaged the vital organs and immune systems of lab rats fed the GE potatoes. Most alarming of all, damage to the rats' stomach linings--apparently a severe viral infection--most likely was caused by the CaMv viral promoter, a promoter spliced into nearly all GE foods and crops. Dr. Pusztai's pathbreaking research work unfortunately remains incomplete (government funding was cut off and he was fired after he spoke to the media). But more and more scientists around the world are warning that genetic manipulation can increase the levels of natural plant toxins in foods (or create entirely new toxins) in unexpected ways by switching on genes that produce poisons. And since regulatory agencies do not currently require the kind of thorough chemical and feeding tests that Dr. Pusztai was conducting, consumers have now become involuntary guinea pigs in a vast genetic experiment. As Dr. Pusztai warns, "Think of William Tell shooting an arrow at a target. Now put a blindfold on the man doing the shooting and that's the reality of the genetic engineer doing a gene insertion." Increased Cancer Risks In 1994, the FDA approved the sale of Monsanto's controversial GE recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH)--injected into dairy cows to force them to produce more milk-- even though scientists warned that significantly higher levels (400-500% or more) of a potent chemical hormone, Insulin-Like Growth Factor (IGF-1), in the milk and dairy products of injected cows, could pose serious hazards for human breast, prostate, and colon cancer. A number of studies have shown that humans with elevated levels of IGF-1 in their bodies are much more likely to get cancer. In addition the US Congressional watchdog agency, the GAO, told the FDA not to approve rBGH, arguing that increased antibiotic residues in the milk of rBGH-injected cows (resulting from higher rates of udder infections requiring antibiotic treatment) posed an unacceptable risk for public health. In 1998, heretofore undisclosed Monsanto/FDA documents were released by government scientists in Canada, showing damage to laboratory rats fed dosages of rBGH. Significant infiltration of rBGH into the prostate of the rats as well as thyroid cysts indicated potential cancer hazards from the drug. Subsequently the government of Canada banned rBGH in early 1999. The European Union has had a ban in place since 1994. Although rBGH continues to be injected into 4-5% of all US dairy cows, no other industrialized country has legalized its use. Even the GATT Codex Alimentarius, a United Nations food standards body, has refused to certify that rBGH is safe. Food Allergies In 1996 a major GE food disaster was narrowly averted when Nebraska researchers learned that a Brazil nut gene spliced into soybeans could induce potentially fatal allergies in people sensitive to Brazil nuts. Animal tests of these Brazil nut-spliced soybeans had turned up negative. People with food allergies (which currently afflicts 8% of all American children), whose symptoms can range from mild unpleasantness to sudden death, may likely be harmed by exposure to foreign proteins spliced into common food products. Since humans have never before eaten most of the foreign proteins now being gene-spliced into foods, stringent pre-market safety-testing (including long-term animal feeding and volunteer human feeding studies) is necessary in order to prevent a future public health disaster. Mandatory labeling is also necessary so that those suffering from food allergies can avoid hazardous GE foods and so that public health officials can trace allergens back to their source when GE-induced food allergies break out. Unfortunately the FDA and other global regulatory agencies do not routinely require pre-market animal and human studies to ascertain whether new allergens or toxins, or increased levels of human allergens or toxins we already know about, are present in genetically engineered foods. As British scientist Dr. Mae-Wan Ho points out "There is no known way to predict the allergenic potential of GE foods. Allergic reactions typically occur only some time after the subject is sensitized by initial exposure to the allergen." Damage to Food Quality & Nutrition A 1999 study by Dr. Marc Lappe published in the Journal of Medicinal Food found that concentrations of beneficial phytoestrogen compounds thought to protect against heart disease and cancer were lower in genetically modified soybeans than in traditional strains. These and other studies, including Dr. Pusztai's, indicate that genetically engineering food will likely result in foods lower in quality and nutrition. For example the milk from cows injected with rBGH contains higher levels of pus, bacteria, and fat. Antibiotic Resistance When gene engineers splice a foreign gene into a plant or microbe, they often link it to another gene, called an antibiotic resistance marker gene (ARM), that helps determine if the first gene was successfully spliced into the host organism. Some researchers warn that these ARM genes might unexpectedly recombine with disease-causing bacteria or microbes in the environment or in the guts of animals or people who eat GE food, contributing to the growing public health danger of antibiotic resistance--of infections that cannot be cured with traditional antibiotics, for example new strains of salmonella, e-coli, campylobacter, and enterococci. EU authorities are currently considering a ban on all GE foods containing antibiotic resistant marker genes. Increased Pesticide Residues in the Soil and on Crops Contrary to biotech industry propaganda, recent studies have found that US farmers growing GE crops are using just as many toxic pesticides and herbicides as conventional farmers, and in some cases are using more. Crops genetically engineered to be herbicide-resistant account for 70% of all GE crops planted in 1998. The so-called "benefits" of these herbicide-resistant crops are that farmers can spray as much of a particular herbicide on their crops as they want--killing the weeds without damaging their crop. Scientists estimate that herbicide-resistant crops planted around the globe will triple the amount of toxic broad-spectrum herbicides used in agriculture. These broad-spectrum herbicides are designed to literally kill everything green.The leaders in biotechnology are the same giant chemical companies--Monsanto, DuPont, AgrEvo, Novartis, and Rhone-Poulenc--that sell toxic pesticides. These companies are genetically engineering plants to be resistant to herbicides that they manufacture so they can sell more herbicides to farmers who, in turn, can apply more poisonous herbicides to crops to kill weeds. Genetic Pollution "Genetic pollution" and collateral damage from GE field crops already have begun to wreak environmental havoc. Wind, rain, birds, bees, and insect pollinators have begun carrying genetically-altered pollen into adjoining fields, polluting the DNA of crops of organic and non-GE farmers. An organic farm in Texas has been contaminated with genetic drift from GE crops on a nearby farm and EU regulators are considering setting an "allowable limit" for gentic contamination of non-GE foods, because they don't believe genetic pollution can be controlled. Because they are alive, gene-altered crops are inherently more unpredictable than chemical pollutants--they can reproduce, migrate, and mutate. Once released, it is virtually impossible to recall genetically engineered organisms back to the laboratory or the field. Damage to Beneficial Insects and Soil Fertility Earlier this year, Cornell University researchers made a startling discovery. They found that pollen from genetically engineered Bt corn was poisonous to Monarch butterflies. The study adds to a growing body of evidence that GE crops are adversely affecting a number of beneficial insects, including ladybugs and lacewings, as well as beneficial soil microorganisms, bees, and possibly birds. Creation of GE "Superweeds" and "Superpests" Genetically engineering crops to be herbicide-resistant or to produce their own pesticide presents dangerous problems. Pests and weeds will inevitably emerge that are pesticide or herbicide-resistant, which means that stronger, more toxic chemicals will be needed to get rid of the pests. We are already seeing the emergence of the first "superweeds" as GE herbicide-resistant crops such as rapeseed (canola) spread their herbicide-resistance traits to related weeds such as wild mustard plants. Lab and field tests also indicate that common plant pests such as cotton boll worms, living under constant pressure from GE crops, will soon evolve into "superpests" completely immune to Bt sprays and other environmentally sustainable biopesticides. This will present a serious danger for organic and sustainable farmers whose biological pest management practices will be unable to cope with increasing numbers of superpests and superweeds. Creation of New Viruses and Bacteria Gene-splicing will inevitably result in unanticipated outcomes and dangerous surprises that damage plants and the environment. Researchers conducting experiments at Michigan State University several years ago found that genetically-altering plants to resist viruses can cause the viruses to mutate into new, more virulent forms. Scientists in Oregon found that a genetically engineered soil microorganism, Klebsiella planticola, completely killed essential soil nutrients. Environmental Protection Agency whistle blowers issued similar warnings in 1997 protesting government approval of a GE soil bacteria called Rhizobium melitoli. Genetic "Bio-Invasion" By virtue of their "superior" genes, some genetically engineered plants and animals will inevitably run amok, overpowering wild species in the same way that introduced exotic species, such as kudzu vine and Dutch elm disease, which have created problems in North America. What will happen to wild fish and marine species, for example, when scientists release into the environment carp, salmon, and trout that are twice as large, and eat twice as much food, as their wild counterparts? Socioeconomic Hazards The patenting of genetically engineered foods and widespread biotech food production threatens to eliminate farming as it has been practiced for 12,000 years. GE patents such as the Terminator Technology will render seeds infertile and force hundreds of millions of farmers who now save and share their seeds to purchase evermore expensive GE seeds and chemical inputs from a handful of global biotech/seed monopolies. If the trend is not stopped, the patenting of transgenic plants and food-producing animals will soon lead to universal "bioserfdom" in which farmers will lease their plants and animals from biotech conglomerates such as Monsanto and pay royalties on seeds and offspring. Family and indigenous farmers will be driven off the land and consumers' food choices will be dictated by a cartel of transnational corporations. Rural communities will be devastated.Hundreds of millions of farmers and agricultural workers worldwide will lose their livelihoods. Ethical Hazards The genetic engineering and patenting of animals reduces living beings to the status of manufactured products and will result in much suffering. In January 1994, the USDA announced that scientists had completed genetic "road maps" for cattle and pigs, a precursor to evermore experimentation on live animals. In addition to the cruelty inherent in such experimentation (the "mistakes" are born with painful deformities, crippled, blind, and so on), these "manufactured" creatures have no greater value to their "creators" than mechanical inventions. Animals genetically engineered for use in laboratories, such as the infamous "Harvard mouse" which contains a human cancer-causing gene that will be passed down to all succeeding generations, were created to suffer. A purely reductionist science, biotechnology reduces all life to bits of information (genetic code) that can be arranged and rearranged at whim. Stripped of their integrity and sacred qualities, animals who are merely objects to their "inventors" will be treated as such. Currently, hundreds of genetically engineered "freak" animals are awaiting patent approval from the federal government. One can only wonder, after the wholesale gene-altering and patenting of animals, will GE "designer babies" be next? For further information on the hazards of GE foods & crops, see our web site and its links: http://www.purefood.org To volunteer to help form an anti-GE Grassroots Action Network in your community call 218-726-1443 or email What Can You Do? Guidelines for Local GE Grassroots Action Networks Campaign Goals As the anti-genetic engineering campaign in Europe has shown, mass grassroots action is the key to stopping this technology and moving agriculture in an organic and sustainable direction. The Campaign for Food Safety and the Organic Consumers Association--along with allied organizations and networks worldwide--endorse the following Food Agenda 2000 as the foundation for our local-to-global campaign work: (1) A Global Moratorium on all Genetically Engineered Foods and Crops; (2) Stop Factory Farming. Begin the Phase-out of industrial agriculture and factory farming--with a goal of significantly reducing the use of toxic chemicals and animal drugs on conventional farms by the year 2010. This phase-out will include a ban on the most dangerous farm chemicals and animal feed additives (antibiotics, hormones, and rendered animal protein) as well as the implementation of intensive Integrated Pest Management Practices (reduce use of chemical fertilizers through natural composting, crop rotation, cover crops, use of beneficial insects, etc.) (3) 30% Organic by the Year 2010. We demand government funding and implementation of transition to organic programs so that at least 30% of US (and global) agriculture is organic by the Year 2010--with a strong emphasis on production for local and regional markets by small and medium-sized organic farmers. Campaign Tactics: Six Actions You Can Take In Your Local Community In the US, the implementation of this Food Agenda 2000 will require the development of mass-based Grassroots Action Networks nationwide. We ask volunteers willing to help build these Networks to take the following steps: (1) Contact our Campaign Field Organizers by email, telephone, fax, or regular mail and volunteer to coordinate or participate in a GE Grassroots Action Network in your community. Send emails to Call 218-726-1443 Fax 218-726-1446 Write: CFS/OCA 6114 Highway 61 Little Marais, MN 55614 (2) Help us circulate our Food Agenda 2000 petition to identify as many people as possible in your area who oppose GE foods and factory farming and support organic agriculture. After these petition names are collected we will set up local data bases for two-way communication and mobilization. Help us find retail stores and coops that will circulate our petitions and Action Alerts. Make copies of these materials and circulate them widely. (3) Help us find subscribers for our free electronic newsletters (Campaign for Food Safety News and Organic View) and donors and supporters for our work. (4) Tune in to our CFS/OCA web sites and for regular news, updates, and Action Alerts. (5) Help organize forums, protests, and news-making events in your local community. (6) Help us put pressure on elected public officials and regulatory agencies to demand either an outright GE moratorium or (a) comprehensive mandatory labeling of all GE food and fiber products; (b) mandatory, stringent pre-market safety-testing of all GE products; and (c) mandatory long-term liability insurance for GE corporations and labs. ##End of Campaign for Food Safety News #21 Ronnie Cummins, Director Campaign for Food Safety/Organic Consumers Association 6114 Hwy 61 Little Marais, Minnesota 55614 Telephone: 218-226-4164 Fax: 218-226-4157 email: alliance@mr.net URL: http://www.purefood.org Affiliated with the Organic Consumers Association http://www.organicconsumers.org To Subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Campaign for Food Safety News send an email to: majordomo@mr.net with the simple message in the body of the text: subscribe pure-food-action To subscribe to the free electronic newsletter, Organic View, send an email to: organicview@organicconsumers.org with the simple message in the body of the text: subscribe To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 17:14:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01196 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05455 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:27:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05372 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22365 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:10:26 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Health effects/GMO L-tryptophan Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2345 Howdy, all-- I am sending this a second time; my apologies, but I left the URL out the first time. Thanks to those of you who let me know I'd done this. While doing a brief search on migraine and ophthalmic migraine, I ran across a World Wide Web site that I thought some of you GMO watchers might be interested in. http://www.nemsn.org/ems/home.html It's the site of the the National Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome Network, Inc., a non-profit organization that supports people with this condition. The network also encourages "research to improve treatment for L-tryptophan-induced EMS" and works toward "increasing awareness of the cause and effects of the disease." A backgrounder in the group's words: "In the fall of 1989, three patients in New Mexico were found to have extremely high eosinophil counts in their blood and were suffering from severe myalgias (muscle pain and spasms). Upon investigation it was determined that all three had ingested a petrochemically and genetically engineered product labeled L-Tryptophan. L-T in its natural form is an amino acid found in such products as milk and turkey. Within weeks the number of cases exploded into an epidemic of over 1,500 cases in the U.S. This new disease became known as Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome (EMS). Victims of EMS were suffering in unrelenting degrees of pain. Many became totally and permanently incapacitated, a number were on life support equipment and scores of EMS victims died." The site provides medical and experiential documentation of the illness, the believed cause, and other issues. I pass it along for your interest and evaluation. There are some interesting perspectives there--a combination of the precautionary principle (affected patients and their families who feel they've been used as guinea pigs in genetic engineering) and risk assessment (there are links to research on the topic). And of course plenty of assertions by the medical community that, see?, we always TOLD you supplements could be harmful! I'm not saying that this isn't true, but it intrigues me that, at a time when iatrogenic causes account for so much patient illness and death, prominent members of the medical community are so excitedly pointing fingers elsewhere, instead of at themselves. It's always easier to project blame than to take responsibility, and much more lucrative to quash questions and dissenting opinion than to build it into research agendas. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I MAKE friends. They're toys. My friends are toys. I make them. It's a hobby. I'm a genetic designer. --J.F. Sebastian (William Sanderson, /Blade Runner/) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 18:19:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02750 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29702 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:48:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29674 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:48:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24883 invoked from network); 25 Aug 1999 21:47:23 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-27.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.199) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 1999 21:47:23 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990825170354.009961f0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:47:16 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: RE: Food irradiation and motorcycle helmets In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEBD@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2346 Dale Wilson wrote: > > It is not yet clear, to me and many others, that the connection > > between public policy and personal safety has been made for > > irradiated foods. > >Do I really need to do a literature search and trot out statistics about how >many thousands of people are made ill or killed each year from E-coli or >Salmonella from meat? 'Course not, Dale. But to be fair, you might have quoted what I said *ahead* of that sentence, which was: "There are still legitimate questions about what happens when irradiated foodstuffs are consumed *as part of a long-term diet" (emphasis added). > > Food safety is a public issue, of course, but irradiation is > > being promoted as a cure-all measure for food-borne disease > > problems that might better be solved by other means. > >First, I have never heard this called a "cure all" by proponents of >irradiation. They regard it as just another santitation tool. To me, it appears that proponents regard irradiation as a one-size-fits-all sanitation tool. Irradiation for meat, irradiation for milk, irradiation for fresh produce. That jibes with the definition of cure-all, synonymous with panacea, "a remedy for all ills or difficulties" (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate, 10th Ed). If I have chosen a word that confuses the issue, I apologize. >Second, the argument you make is like saying "helmet laws are not needed >since the root cause is people driving too fast and not being careful." I don't think my argument is like saying that at all. Helmet laws are in place because we know full well the consequences of not wearing the helmet should an accident occur (which could as easily be the result of mechanical failure, wet pavement, a child darting into the street...). Whatever the root cause of food contamination, I am not persuaded that we know enough yet about the *consequences* of the proposed remedy--irradiation. >The advantage of top-down regulation like helmet laws and irradiation of >meat, is that it provides a back-up safety system in case personal morality >and responsibility are inconsistent (as they always are in large human >systems like highways and meat packing plants). The disadvantage of top-down regulation is that it tends, over time, to remove any impetus for *increased* personal (or corporate) morality and responsibility. The speed limit is the speed limit, and the person who spins out in a driving rainstorm says plaintively, "But I wasn't speeding." Regulations are regulations, and companies learn to toe the line. As long as they are in compliance with the rules, they need think no further about their responsibility for the public good or their moral obligations to a civilized society. Regulations, which are designed as much to limit liability as to safeguard the public, set both floor and ceiling. > > Before we start nuking everything we eat, perhaps we should > > look at how the food is grown, what's being fed to it,.... > >Despite your inflammatory language, the argument against irradiation really >comes down to whether or not the practice has any deleterious side-effects, >and how serious they are. Sorry, Dale. I didn't mean to be inflammatory. In my vocabulary, "nuking" is a relatively benign term that I use to refer to the workings of my microwave as well as other forms of radiation. A neighbor undergoing therapy for breast cancer says she's going in for her regular nuking. I did not intend to offend with the term. But as long as you're talking about inflammatory (Webster's again: "tending to excite anger, disorder, or tumult"), your prose might fit the bill, too: >The problem in large scale production is that a minute amount of fecal >material could >contaminate 100,000 pounds of ground beef, and hurt thousands of people in >one shot. Shouldn't we think some more about large-scale production? Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 19:22:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04043 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:22:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04661 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:41:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04564 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00289 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0058.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.58]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16530; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C36DDF.642F61F2@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:15:27 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Hook CC: Paul Schmitmeyer , Sanet Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!! References: <009901beee45$8b428860$98fe6ed1@dan> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E9AA7A058A25BD2FD156ADAA" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2347 --------------E9AA7A058A25BD2FD156ADAA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Living withGreen Power, by Elysa Markowitz, Alive Books 7436 Fraser Park Dr. Burnaby, BC Canada V5J 5B9 I don'tknow the price. You needto buy the machine that is suggested throughout the book. It processes AND juices, called Green Power. There is also the book of recipes used by the Optimum Health Institute==where people go when they have been given up everywhere else, usually. I won't say everyone would like to eat these things, but---- Optimum Health Institute of SanDieago Optimal Living Recipes You can order it from there: OHI, 6970 Central Av., Lemon Grove, CA 91945 619-464-3346 Dan Hook wrote: > Someone on another list was looking for info on raw food. Do you > have a book or web page to recommend. I include recipes in my CSA > newletter, I don't mind including non-recipes. Beth > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bargyla Rateaver > To: Paul Schmitmeyer > Cc: Sanet > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 1:36 AM > Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD > !!!What is really needed is not a COOKING food book, but a > book of really good, interesting, different, satisfying book > of how to prepare RAW food. Half the nation of US is dying > of cancer. It is time for people to forget cooking and learn > to enjoy raw food. > I think it is so shocking--when I was a child, someone > with cancer was so rare, and we all would worry if it was > catching. Now, EVERY OTHER PERSON YOU KNOW WILL DIE OF > CANCER. > > > --------------E9AA7A058A25BD2FD156ADAA Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Living withGreen Power, by Elysa Markowitz, Alive Books 7436 Fraser Park Dr. Burnaby, BC Canada V5J 5B9   I don'tknow the price.  You needto buy the machine that is suggested throughout the book. It processes AND juices, called Green Power.

    There is also the book of recipes used by the Optimum Health Institute==where people go when they have been given up everywhere else,  usually. I won't say everyone would like to eat these things, but----
     Optimum Health Institute of SanDieago Optimal Living Recipes You can order it from there:  OHI, 6970 Central Av., Lemon Grove, CA 91945  619-464-3346
     

    Dan Hook wrote:

     Someone on another list was looking for info on raw food.  Do you have a book or web page to recommend.  I include recipes in my CSA newletter, I don't mind including non-recipes.  Beth
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Bargyla Rateaver <brateaver@earthlink.net>
    To: Paul Schmitmeyer <ps@erinet.com>
    Cc: Sanet <sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu>
    Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 1:36 AM
    Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!!What is really needed is not a COOKING food book, but a book of really good, interesting, different, satisfying book of how to prepare RAW food.  Half the nation of US is dying of cancer. It is time for people to forget cooking and learn to enjoy raw food.
        I think it is so shocking--when I was a child, someone with cancer was so rare, and we all would worry if it was catching. Now, EVERY OTHER PERSON YOU KNOW WILL DIE OF CANCER.

     

      --------------E9AA7A058A25BD2FD156ADAA-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 19:22:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04047 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04031 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:40:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03944 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0058.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.58]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14255; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C32F35.8D5EEECB@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:48:05 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: richmo@indy.net CC: Misha , SANET-mg Subject: Re: Time out References: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> <37C26DDE.36D1@indy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2348 OOPs here we go again. I just can't let that slide. 1. Absolutely not--the Bible writers DID NOT think or say anything so silly. Where in the world did that nutty idea come from, that they thought eclipses were this or that? There is NO reference to any such thing. 2. THEY ???? thought the earth was flat?????? On the contrary , it was people who did not really believe the Bible who thought that. It is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that Bible writers KNEW the earth was round, and suspended in space. It was not Bible writers who put out such silly stuff, but those who DID NOT KNOW it who talked so silly. I made a special point of putting these verses on the Dedication Page of the Primer UPDATE: ,,,,,:Job 26:7 "He ..hangeth the earth upon nothing." .... Isaiah 40:22 "It is He that sitteth unpon the globe of the earth" (Douay) What could be plainer than that? You better take that back, sir !!!!! right away !!!!! Rich Molini wrote: > > Misha wrote > > > > how can we possibly judge > > someone who bases their knowledge on Biblical writings? > > Just an observation, I believe the bible was written by human > beings who at the time thought for example among other things > 1) eclipses were a message from the heavens > 2) the earth was flat > > I'm not judging anyone. Just questioning their references and sources. > > Later, > Rich Molini > 2419 East 281st Street > Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 > http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 19:23:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04059 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04663 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04590 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00292 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0058.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.58]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16695; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C36FD3.E717DF83@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:23:47 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Hook CC: Paul Schmitmeyer , Sanet Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!! References: <009901beee45$8b428860$98fe6ed1@dan> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------579913806B826C61EF770560" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2349 --------------579913806B826C61EF770560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe I should tell everyone what I try to do for my eyes. Someone told me this to do. In blender I put raw, green leaves--could be weeds, dandelions, parsley, celery, spinach, etc. With water, and whiz it until the water looks green--not just green leaf bits in the water, but the whole liquid is green. Or I may use raw carrots. Then I add 2 raw eggs. BUT these are eggs I know are safe to eat raw. Can't use just any eggs from the store. Add 1 big spoonful of butter. Add 1/2 cup of raw flax seed, ground up. Add juice of 1, preferably 2 lemons. (I sometimes use orange instead) Add spoonful of honey Whiz it all together. Drink as is. Tastes very good, really. I may leave out the butter and use that on baked potato maybe?? I do have to eat some cooked starch or I can't get to sleep. I may add brewer's yeast. I may add fruit, like banana, etc. instead of the honey. I also add a spoon of the superduper Vit B mix recommended by Adelle Davis. I read this in her book, and talked a vitamin mftr into making it for me. It tastes HORRIBLE, but it works like magic. Dan Hook wrote: > Someone on another list was looking for info on raw food. Do you > have a book or web page to recommend. I include recipes in my CSA > newletter, I don't mind including non-recipes. Beth > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bargyla Rateaver > To: Paul Schmitmeyer > Cc: Sanet > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 1:36 AM > Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD > !!!What is really needed is not a COOKING food book, but a > book of really good, interesting, different, satisfying book > of how to prepare RAW food. Half the nation of US is dying > of cancer. It is time for people to forget cooking and learn > to enjoy raw food. > I think it is so shocking--when I was a child, someone > with cancer was so rare, and we all would worry if it was > catching. Now, EVERY OTHER PERSON YOU KNOW WILL DIE OF > CANCER. > > > --------------579913806B826C61EF770560 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe I should tell everyone what I try to do for my eyes. Someone told me this to do.
      In blender I put raw, green leaves--could be weeds, dandelions, parsley, celery, spinach, etc. With water, and whiz it until the water looks green--not just green leaf bits in the water, but the whole liquid is green.  Or I may use raw carrots.
       Then I add 2 raw eggs.  BUT these are eggs I know are safe to eat raw. Can't use just any eggs from the store.
        Add 1 big spoonful of butter.
        Add 1/2 cup of raw flax seed, ground up.
        Add juice of  1, preferably 2 lemons. (I sometimes use orange instead)
        Add spoonful of honey

    Whiz it all together. Drink as is. Tastes very good, really.
    I may leave out the butter and use that on baked potato maybe?? I do have to eat some cooked starch or I can't get to sleep.
     I may add brewer's yeast.
      I may add fruit, like banana, etc. instead of the honey.

    I also add a spoon of the superduper Vit B mix recommended by Adelle Davis. I read this in her book, and talked a vitamin mftr into making it for me. It tastes HORRIBLE, but it works like magic.

    Dan Hook wrote:

     Someone on another list was looking for info on raw food.  Do you have a book or web page to recommend.  I include recipes in my CSA newletter, I don't mind including non-recipes.  Beth
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Bargyla Rateaver <brateaver@earthlink.net>
    To: Paul Schmitmeyer <ps@erinet.com>
    Cc: Sanet <sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu>
    Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 1:36 AM
    Subject: Re: Good For You Cooking Recipes That are GOOD !!!What is really needed is not a COOKING food book, but a book of really good, interesting, different, satisfying book of how to prepare RAW food.  Half the nation of US is dying of cancer. It is time for people to forget cooking and learn to enjoy raw food.
        I think it is so shocking--when I was a child, someone with cancer was so rare, and we all would worry if it was catching. Now, EVERY OTHER PERSON YOU KNOW WILL DIE OF CANCER.

     

      --------------579913806B826C61EF770560-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 20:10:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04552 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17183 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:41:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [216.12.0.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA17016 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 10838 invoked from network); 25 Aug 1999 23:40:18 -0000 Received: from c4s8m23.cfw.com (HELO cfw.com) (216.12.57.74) by milo.cfw.com with SMTP; 25 Aug 1999 23:40:18 -0000 Message-ID: <37C47F00.CC6CFE72@cfw.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:40:48 -0400 From: Jeff Ishee X-Sender: "Jeff Ishee" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "direct-mkt@reeusda.gov" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Submissions for new book Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2350 Friends, I will be writing a new book this winter (and possibly into spring?) on the topic of public farmers' markets. The goal is to furnish farmers, vendors, and market management with a single resource of information that will enable them to capture the most satisfaction and profit from their efforts. I would like to include a chapter relating successful operations at public farmers' market all across North America, hence this request. If you would like to submit an article for possible inclusion in the book, please forward this material to me as soon as possible. Specifically, I'm looking for: * photographs of market displays (b/w or color) * photographs of market signs * photographs of special market events/promotions * stories from successful market farmers * stories from market managers * copies of rules and regs for your market Articles should be a maximum of 2000 words, and preferably e-mailed in plain text. If you don't like to write, consider a telephone interview that will allow me to share your story. Photographs should emphasize action and be close-ups rather than from across the parking lot. All submissions become the property of our farm based publishing enterprise Bittersweet Farmstead. Photographs will be returned only if you include a SASE with your submission. Credit will be given in the book to the submitting author/photographer; however, all material will be copyrighted by the publisher upon publication of the book. Any person submitting material that is eventually used in the book will receive two complimentary copies. Make sure that you include a shipping address with your submission. Please submit your material no later than November 30, 1999 to the address listed below. See reviews of a previous work at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096568900X/qid=935621851/sr=1-2/002-9119437-0508803 Sincerely, Jeff Ishee Bittersweet Farmstead P.O. Box 52 Middlebrook, VA 24459 (540) 886-9394 e-mail: farmsted@cfw.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 20:55:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05004 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18322 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:26:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18134 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d60-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.60]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA26617; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:25:04 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , Subject: RE: truth and belief Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:30:28 +1000 Message-ID: <000501beef5a$32af58c0$3c3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <8B342C91A42@agecon.uga.edu> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2351 I think I'm somewhere up the tree on this one, maybe near the limb where Anita says she is. I am uneasy about the word 'truth' as it seems to lead to trouble. John said truth is absolute. That is really a self-definition by a very assertive little word, a word given weight especially, probably almost universally, by its use by mothers. There may be facts, there are probably, more truthfully [;-)], good hypotheses and useful assumptions. Going beyond that is where science gets itself into trouble and seeks the authority of religion. Religious truth is assertion based on faith, not testable. the problem with some semitic monotheistic religions (including fundamentalist Christianity) is that the logic follows, for the believer, that if something is divine and inescapable truth, it obliterates other possible views and for some people, that produces an obligation to coerce universal acceptance of such 'truth'. Salman Rushdie, in 'Satanic Verses' really upset some people when, after a conversation between Mohammed and the Angel Gabriel up a tree in the desert, M being given different advice from some earlier advice from G, M thanks G and Gabriel replies: "Well, just remember that all you got from me was what you wanted to hear in the first place." The opposite of belief is not disbelief, Rushdie remarks, but doubt. The problem in the current dialogue is that those who believe and those who doubt follow quite different ways of addressing issues. Anita says: "... most of us have also had the experience of neutral and open mind whereupon we go about searching for an answer that is satisfactory, and, at least at the outset, the outcome is uncertain. After searching, questioning, and probing, we may all find different answers to what seemed like the same question originally." Having been brought up as a fundamentalist Christian I have to say Anita that the 'most of us' glosses over the fact that a whole raft of people are not among these 'most' and that there is a severe clash of minds. Training as an anthropologist, and life spent on four continents, has made it evident to me that it is a general characteristic of our species to establish mystical explanations to achieve certainty, remove doubt and avoid the search; these diverse religious beliefs have meaning in each society in providing supernatural reinforcement for conformist behaviour. In our diverse society we have diverse beliefs and sanctions for a diversity of moral conformities. In our secular society, science too often seeks religious status by demanding conformity among its proponents, earlier hypotheses become taught as dogma and 'truth' becomes false, the word 'absolute' still applying to the demand for conformity. This is why in the 'most scientific' country on the planet you (I speak as a foreigner with affection for the US) have the only advance state in which there is a real battle between science and creationist dogma - because science has taken on the mantle of dogma itself. In broader political context - the higher sense of politics as a nation's best ideals - one need only reflect upon the evolving nature of self-evident truths such as the idea that all men are born equal, a stunning advance in the 18th century, with its unperceived gender exclusion and assertion by happy slave owners. Truth is not absolute, however self-evident. I think I prefer to keep this little word truth as a test for personal behaviour, more than anything else, and I tend not to use it because I prefer the word honest. Whether because of how I was raised, or because of personal ethical values as an adult, or because professional experience pits me against the folly of lying, where or whenever, I see no value in being other than honest with people. Perhaps the truth is ;-) that Anita was a bit brutal, as is Bargyla, in honestly stating their minds. But having expressed doubt about the first three words of the Anita quote above, I concur with the rest of it, entirely. It is true that I have that view. I doubt it's worth. Bit it's not worth the paper to argue whether the statement is the 'truth'; too many will disagree, anyway. In the end, language is everything, the vehicle and the meaning of all ideas and beliefs (acknowledging that the most mysterious intellectual, emotional and physical experiences acquire beauty often by being inexpressible, which for some makes them spiritual, mystical or religious experiences). We need to be honest with each other, but we need to try to be gentle at the same time. The problem, I acknowledge is that some will find some ideas, however expressed, offensive to their own beliefs. That goes for what I have said above too, I am sure. My own position with my own family makes this clear to me. I find their fundamentalist faith deeply limiting and at times offensive in the prejudiced views sometimes imposed on me; they view me as a lost soul, also something dangerous to be wiped off the benchtop or at least not invited into the kitchen of their minds. And I would no more try to get Bargyla to alter her views than I would seek to alter my 84 year old mother's views. Some things are too hard, apart from anything else. On the internet, we diversely-opinioned folks are in an extraordinary environment where I think we speak to each other with more candour than we may elsewhere. My own view on the issue of organic farming and spirituality is that the link has dangers. I believe it can and should be argued that modern organic farming can be more scientific that modern scientific agriculture (exposing the word science to review), to the extent that it takes into account broad ecological processes, ignored in 'crop/pest/damn the soil' agriculture. I read into some messages on the spiritual theme that it is spiritual to respect the broader ecology. I think it's important to argue it first as good sense. 'Spiritual' carries risks in that it may be a lightning rod to divert energy from further probing thought, or some claim to ownership by people who are 'spiritual'. (Most of our most cherished beliefs are claims to status of one kind or another, be it as 'god's chosen' or some other special status; Kosovo is cut from the grubby end of the same cloth.) My own perspective might be, were it religious, closer to some Asian religions than the semitic religions that dominate the developed world. I find it not demeaning, but uplifting, to remove from my mind notions of being a chosen species or race or community. I find it useful to think that we may have, as a species, developed a big front brain not for loftiness but to cope, as an awkward mutant, without adequate hair, with the heat of the African plains. And that thus the cognitive processes of which we are so proud, and on which this message is based, arose because the front brain, wonderful cooling device that it is, didn't have enough to do in cool climates and the chilling gives rise to mystical states and hormonal changes, especially where there are nutritional deficits. There have been suggestions that body temperatures were higher some centuries ago. Certainly there are arguments that extravagance of thought and dogmatic belief may be characteristic of slightly low body temperature http://www.mall-net.com/mcs/coldbody.html#Scale But I offer this as food for thought, not as truth. I feel it is more useful to think and think provocatively rather than accept truths, scientific or religious. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 21:01:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05073 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24661 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:35:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24656 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.31] (gl-ppp11.hevanet.com [204.119.60.31]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA07128; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908260034.RAA07128@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:37:42 -0700 Subject: FW: Organic v. Plastic Mulch on Pesticide Loss From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2352 This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648.---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Organic v. Plastic Mulch on Pesticide Loss Date: Wed, Aug 25, 1999, 7:52 AM STORY LEAD: Vegetative Mulch Cuts Pesticide Losses in Runoff ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Sarah Tarshis, (301) 504-1611, isst@ars-grin.gov August 25, 1999 ----------- Growing vegetables with an organic mulch, hairy vetch--a legume-- instead of plastic mulch cut pesticide losses by as much as 90 percent in experiments in Maryland. The vetch also greatly reduced water runoff and sediment losses. Today, Agricultural Research Service scientists presented the findings--the first showing the tactic's effect on pesticide loss--at a meeting of the American Chemical Society in New Orleans. ARS is the USDA's chief scientific wing. The Chesapeake Bay and its aquatic organisms have long been threatened by polluted runoff from farms, lawns, golf courses, streets, septic tanks and other sources. And on the Bay's Delmarva peninsula, runoff from vegetable fields may contribute to endangering shellfish such as shrimp, clams and oysters. The new findings point to ways to reduce this threat. Polyethylene mulch is used to conserve soil moisture and control weeds on about 4,600 acres of tomato and floral crops in Northhampton and Accomack counties, Virginia, that make up Virginia's eastern shore. Runoff increases, however, because plastic covers 50 to 75 percent of the fields. Pesticides that aren't absorbed into the soil can be removed easily from the plastic surface by rain. In a three-year collaborative study, ARS chemist Cathleen Hapeman and her co-workers grew tomato plants in both plastic-covered and hairy vetch mulch plots at the agency's Beltsville, Md., Agricultural Research Center. They measured the runoff and its sediment and pesticide concentrations. Compared to the plastic-covered plots, the vetch-mulch plots lost about two to 10 times less water, 10 times less soil and, on average, 10 times less pesticide. Scientists tested some runoff from the plots on clams and other bottom-feeding organisms that serve as indicators of water quality. Preliminary results of the tests, conducted at the University of Maryland's Chesapeake Biological Lab in Solomons, Md., showed that runoff from polyethylene plots can harm the aquatic organisms. The organisms were less affected by runoff from plots mulched with hairy vetch. ---------- Scientific contact: Cathleen Hapeman, ARS Environmental Chemistry Lab, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-6511, fax (301) 504-5048, chapeman@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 22:51:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06365 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03784 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:13:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03704 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:14:47 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.146] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A2A54D7D014A; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:12:53 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:10:13 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: 'Flat-earth' Bible Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2353 On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:48:05 -0700, Bargyla Rateaver wrote: >,,,,,:Job 26:7 "He ..hangeth the earth upon nothing." > >.... Isaiah 40:22 "It is He that sitteth unpon the globe of the earth" >(Douay) > >What could be plainer than that? I wonder why it is that many (most??) people who criticise the Bible have apparently never read it ? >From what I have encountered directly --- I am *not* referring to this list --- it often seems that an awful lot of them are a bit terrified by the prospect that it might actually apply to them, and thereby run it down rather than face the possibility of its relevance to their lives, even as nothing more than one of the great wisdom books of human history. There are 72 Old Testament references to land care, and I am looking forward to participating in the parallel agscripture discussion for the next few days to learn better what other faiths have to say about the matter. Meantime, as I sit here in Kansas it is amazing to see the degree to which news media outside the state have distorted the state school board's decision favoring local control of how evolution is taught. That topic is decidedly off-list, but I did want to share the best comment I have yet encountered in the world-wide debate that was spawned right here in the Heartland. One of the Chinese palaeontologists working on a major dinosaur deposit in that country --- fossils that in many ways defy Darwinian theory --- made the following trenchant observation... "In China, we may criticise Darwin, but it is very risky to criticise our government. In America it is acceptable to criticise the government, but apparently very risky to criticise Darwin." 'nuf said. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 23:53:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07158 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:53:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09940 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:13:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09911 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d36-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.36]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA19280 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:12:41 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: truth and belief Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:18:06 +1000 Message-ID: <000801beef71$9da17660$3c3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <000501beef5a$32af58c0$3c3325cb@p2> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2354 Sorry, but I need to correct a couple of editorial errors in a long message sent earlier: I said: "But having expressed doubt about the first three words of the Anita quote above, I concur with the rest of it, entirely. It is true that I have that view. I doubt it's worth. Bit it's not worth the paper to argue whether the statement is the 'truth';..." I left out a 'don't'. The third sentence should read: "I DON'T doubt its worth." I later said: "I believe it can and should be argued that modern organic farming can be more scientific that modern scientific agriculture..." in which the second 'that' should be 'than', as in "modern organic farming can be more scientific THAN modern scientific agriculture" Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 23:54:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07162 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09490 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09484 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06739 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA27580 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:08:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:08:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: water demand forecasting (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA09485 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2355 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:48:43 +0100 From: Joo Nuno To: sustag@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: water demand forecasting Dear sirs I'm trying to get a mathematical model to quantify the water in agricultural utilization as like rural utilization (bathrooms, kitchen, and so on). The next point is forecast future water demand in agriculture. The questions are: 1-> Is there some model, or some other way to do this?; 2-> What kind of information should i get from farmers, or other information sources?; 3-> Is this possible, if there is no systematic control of water utilization? I'm not an expert in agriculture, but this work is very useful for other objective. Thank you very much. I look forward to your suggestions Joo Nuno I To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Aug 25 23:55:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07179 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09945 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:13:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09918 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d36-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.36]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA19292 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:12:44 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: RE: yellow ladybugs/comfrey Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:18:09 +1000 Message-ID: <000901beef71$9f113300$3c3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <002d01beeefc$a3a4ac00$1568f6cd@kim> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2356 Some ladybirds [as we call them down here] are carnivores, some herbivores. The beneficial ones are the carnivores, devourers of aphids, etc. There is one herbivorous ladybird here [called the 28 spot] which is a problem with its taste for potato leaf and more. We have found this bug also likes comfrey leaves, and the availability of lots of comfrey leaf allows its population to grow and it is then predated sufficient to effectively eliminate its impact on the potatoes. So Bart, maybe comfrey is a weed as you suggest but: - it has potential in pest management - it is a good grass barrier - being deep rooted it is a mineral miner and this adds to its value as a compost accelerant - under its broad leaves, the ground is cool and moist and provides habitat for all sorts of creatures - being deep rooted it is not a great competitor with the shallow roots of young fruit trees - it tends to die back early in drought weather and is not fiercely competitive in times of water stress - you can use its juice (containing alantoin), preferably from a piece of root, the leaf being prickly, to deal with scratches in the field BUT it must not be chopped up by a cultivator, unless you want to become a bulk supplier of comfrey leaf to a herbalist, as every root fragment will grow. Not a problem if you don't use a rotary hoe. We put four bits of comfrey root around every fruit tree we plant, two or three feet from the trunk. It's cheap, multipurpose and valuable. You do need, through the summer, to hit the comfrey leaves, two or three feet high, with a knife [I use a cane knife, which has a handy hook at the tip of the back, very good for pulling mulch where you want it], every few weeks through summer, chopping them up where they fall and pulling them away from the trunk. As the trees mature and the canopy closes (in a close planted permaculture orchard), and grass competition declines, the comfrey gives up. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 00:25:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07849 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03084 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:55:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02952 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.233.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.233]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA09849 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990825205247.008aec10@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:52:47 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: Position Open @ Cal Poly's CRS In-Reply-To: <199908260216.WAA07091@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2357 Hello again SA-folks, As I've written before, many months back, I lived, worked, and studied at Cal Poly Pomona's John Lyle Center for Regenerative Studies. It is an unique facility on the edge of LA County. You may be amazed by the infrastructure: Dish-Sterling, PV's, wind turbine, 98% edible landscaping, sustainable reclaimed water aquaculture & agriculture, and even a strawbale greenhouse that doubles as a coolhouse in summer. But I fell in love with it because of all the people. The community that grows out of the site is truely magical. If you're up to the challenge of organic food production on LA's urban fringe, this may be a job for you! I'm just passing the word, Fred ------------------------------ For Info Write To: armsurf@earthlink.net Cal Poly's Center for Regenerative Studies http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~crs/ is seeking qualified candidates for the position of Land Technician. Candidates should have practical hands-on skills in operating a food system based on regenerative practices. CV's may be send to the Office of the Director (909) 869-5188. Paul Sommers Outreach Coordinator === Paul Sommers armsurf@earthlink.net 760-944-8551 __________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 05:08:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09831 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 05:08:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16871 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:33:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16745 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27863 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:33:08 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10814 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:33:45 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 26 Aug 99 10:28:00 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 26 Aug 99 10:27:28 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:27:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: GMO's and Europe's banking community Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <3291355FD2@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2358 >From the progressive review's website -> >GUARDIAN (LONDON): Europe's biggest bank has >advised the world's largest investors to sell their >shares in leading companies involved in the >development of genetically modified organisms because >consumers do not want to buy their products. In a >report sent to several thousand of the world's large >institutional investors, yes, thanks for the forward. i yet got the total report from a friend.. excerpt: >GMOs Are Dead >We are reducing our rating on Pioneer Hi-Bred to SELL from HOLD, >and we would broadly recommend a sale of the seed sector. >Our SELL rating on Pioneer does not imply that we >believe there is major downside to the stock - DuPont has >announced its intention to acquire Pioneer at $40 per share. We >are not saying that the deal will not close when i finished reading, i thought what ARE they trying to tell me at last ?. yes, but no... maybe, but also... stock consulting as usual...keeping the options as open as possible... at first all these comments sound quite logical, BUT: are the above consultants from Deutsche Bank the same consultants, who do beg you on their knees to nevermore mention the two words "Schneider" and "peanuts" in any german newspaper, because these two words meant am embarassing billion $ loss for the deutsche bank due to totally!!! wrong consulting ? are these the same consultants, who advised "Deutsche Bank" to invest billions of dollars in russia, because of the "possible" tremendous earnings ?. today the same consultants get pale faces and cold glittering sweat on their noses, if yeltzin merely had said "nasdarovje" at a bankett. every time yeltzin is getting a little cold, their steel tower in frankfurt is shaken by a small earthquake, and if he is dying one day due to liver cirrhosis, all what is left to them, is to commit harakiri (alternatively leaving the almost crashed bank with a 1M $-settlement from the bankrupt investors' charges or tax-payers' money like in "operation peso shield") ?. are these the same consultants, who led the deutsche bank into the actual situation of having a total risk position of 17.5 billion euro (i have the interim report dating from july 99 just before me). are they the same, who are proud of never having a value-at-risk (possible loss) of 136 billion euro A DAY ?? are these the people working in rust-free steel towers, who would not be able to distinguish a field of wheat from a corn field and who think, that milk is produced in steel tanks (no joke, about one third of school kids in frankfurt do not know, where milk comes from. you'll have to tell them in high school, that milk in reality is produced from male pigs' and donkey's feathers!) ?? i would sooner believe a farmer, who tells me, his clover fields are glowing magenta-green at night (maybe an UFO, bringing back elvis in his true shape as a gray) than one of these smart money boys and their fairy tales about the future of agriculture. may i give them a humble little lesson in money consulting ?? (with a special hint, that this is in NO way my opinion about any other consultants in other professions) a) the report is totally wrong in telling, that investment money is drawn from future rating of the shares ! see above: "downside to the stock". did they never learn, that a company sells their shares just ONCE and gets it's money out of that single sell? in the contrary: the higher the future price for the share, the more difficult to buy it back and keep the influence on future decisions... basics of the 1. semester in economy... b) some words about the question, if a randomly choosen stock buy is more profitable than a buy/sell following advice of money consultants, flooded economists, math-sci research by cash-flow, neuronal connected computer algorythms, chaos- driven system theoreticists, tai-panned daytrading investors and head-shoulder-chartists: the most important sentence in the famous and meanwhile classic book "a random walk down wall street" by burton g. malkiel was: "up to now there isn't ANY scientific proof, that over-all-performances of professionally managed portefeuilles would be more profitable than an randomly choosen portfolio". proof follows immediately: c) the dart-method for choosing shares was invented by the famous economist and nobel-price-winner paul samuelson. here's, how it goes: during a senate's hearing samuelson fixed a list of joined-stock companies on a dart disc and asked a senator (his name was mcintyre), to throw on it with 10 dart arrows. the companies hit by the 10 darts were chosen for investment. after 10 years this randomly "thrown" portfolio was compared to all the other professionaly managed portfolios. result: the "thrown" portfolio had earned more money that ALL the other ones... although these were managed by an uncountable army of highly paid analysts supported by "artificial intelligence" information systems, trend charts, buy-sell-lines, stop-loss-marks and analyses of experienced market experts. a swedish professor of economy even did a funnier thing. he choose a chimpanzee as dart player and counterpart of the professionals ... the ape won with a lead of 5 percent. this test was the laughter of the whole scandinavia for about two weeks (and should never be forgotten) today the mere mentioning of this more than funny test with all its conclusions in any of these frankfurt bank steel towers corresponds to asking your boss to be fired immediately... while i certainly agree with some of their views, let's not forget, that these consultants are employees of a PRIVATE bank and their only aim in business is to make a lot of fast money (meaning: tell people to buy, if they already have bought the same shares and to sell, if they want to buy them cheap some days later, if they expect a large rise in the future!). what i wanna say in short: i certainly did not choose the profession of a farmer/horticulturist to let me tell by some bankers (who in questions of economy apparently have the same knowledge as this ape and whose advice are even worse than throwing the dice), that any development in farming and marketing and its implications on society can be predicted by them. the only one SURE thing about the future is, that people in 20 years will still need shelter, clothings, air, water and FOOD. the outcome of the fight over GMO's is still as undecided as ever and one of the major reasons a lot of farmers here in europe are against gmo's is the fact, that NO agricultural development (even if in general positive) of the last 40 years has had ANY lasting positive impact on farmer's income. prices and the relation of expendures for food vs. income fell constantly over this period. compared to the 50ies our income has been downsized to roughly 50% of the income 50 years ago, while almost all the other prices rose about 200-500% (some exceptions are gold, coal, steel, minings, energy and that makes me think, too. they all are natural resources, which ALL are "exploited" - just like farmers??). the only valuable decision on future planting is YOUR OWN EXPECTATION of the future market and the only support you get is asking a lot of neighbours, on what decisions they base their food choices. next thing to do is to change that behavior by convincing them to buy other things than burgers and soft ice. the trend to "universal" food ("whereever you travel, mc-food tastes the same from rio to shanghai, so you need not worry about any strange ingredients", that was one of the statements of a youngster i heard at a discussion yesterday - naked fear of the unknown. is that the attitude of our future generation ?) certainly does not look bright for us. as a mail should not only critizise: last week i shared a meeting of a loosely connected group named "slow food". they meet once a week to eat a well prepared menu, where all ingredients originate from small local farmers. the farmers work together with local cooks and the dinners are more than just swallowing calories (i remember having read something like that some days ago in sust ag). the preparation, the origin and the growing methods are explained (by a nicely explaining farmer, who knows, what he is talking about. and as a joke after the wonderful soup he gave everyone a ready-to-cook freeze-dried soup in a paper bag (bought for 25 pence) and asked: "anybody interested in that undefinible soup with a full 6.5 grams of dried meat in it?" ;-))) such meetings surely at least are as opinion-rising as TV spots from the food giants. admitted: less for the poorer families and you need to put away some time for the preparation and the dinner itsself, but that's exactly, what the name "slow food" stands for. dinner becomes a happening and a social event... and once you get "addicted" to the taste, it infiltrates your mind and your opinion about eating habits and the value and taste of food. although part of my education was pomology, they also served an apple of a more than 100 year old variety, i never heard of and which is absolutely outdated in the market. it had the "perfect" and "final" taste and for such an apple i will pay three times the price of a "mutzu" or a "braeburn".... but just THAT apple is the reason, why i think that economists, who predict the future of gene technology are like blind men trying to explain to deafs the colors of a rainbow.. what if the gene companies will come up with an apple of exactly THAT taste and the yields of a "delicious" ??? up to now they haven't, let us take advantage of it. mourning won't help. the problem is more to convince john doe, that he will loose something very valuable, if big enterprises will take over the farm business and we will end up with "soylent green". farmers still rate quite high in public opinion (despite all these bad news about bse, dioxin aso, which is mainly attributed to modern production and distribution systems, we should take advantage of this, let big business solve their problems themselfes, they are NOT everyone elses) and we should take care, that it will remain that way. but we ourselfes will have to get active for that high opinion and CONVINCE the public of the advantages. the problem? farmers (at least here in germany) prefer to flock together at farmer's meetings, but you rarely see them talking to lawyers, clerks, butchers, carpenters, tailors and other business men... i also see it as of the most important tasks of officials to spread a "good press" for the farmer and the value of his products among the public, not only among the scientific community. a lot of researchers find their time be be "too important" for writing simple and convincing articles in the newspapers, which john doe is reading each day.. (ignoring the fact, that they have a responsability for these taxpayers). at first it may be a bit difficult to learn, how to write newspaper articles, but sooner or later i learned, how to reduce the facts down to simple words and short, but convincing newspaper articles. "press releases" style won't work !!!! the editor won't even accept it for printing. give them articles ready to print and you will make a journalist one of the luckiest people in the world ;-:] --------------- klaus wiegand +-[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]-----------+ | | | Basically my wife was immature. I'd be at home | | in the bath and she'd come in and sink my boats. | | Woody Allen | +-----------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 09:36:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12310 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14046 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:55:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13987 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04599; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002401beefc2$27e89380$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "Argall Family" , "sanet-mg" Subject: Re: yellow ladybugs/comfrey Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:54:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2359 It is true that some lady beetles (or ladybugs or lady bird beetles or coccinellids) are plant eaters. However, there are relatively few herbivorous lady beetles in North America north of Mexico. Here in the northeast, all we have are the Mexican bean beetle (feeding on bean leaves), the squash beetle (feeding on squash and other cucurbit leaves and sometimes on squash fruit), and one other beetle, Subcoccinella sp., which is newly introduced and feeds on leaves of the wildflower/weed bouncing bet. I am not sure that any of these occurs in British Columbia, where the person lives who asked the question, and I wouldn't expect any of them to be likely to feed on plums and berries. Kim Stoner -----Original Message----- From: Argall Family To: sanet-mg Date: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 11:29 PM Subject: RE: yellow ladybugs/comfrey >Some ladybirds [as we call them down here] are carnivores, some herbivores. > >The beneficial ones are the carnivores, devourers of aphids, etc. > >There is one herbivorous ladybird here [called the 28 spot] which is a >problem with its taste for potato leaf and more. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 09:51:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12521 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25146 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postal.indy.net (postal.indy.net [199.3.65.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25141 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from indy3.indy.net (root@indy3 [199.3.65.14]) by postal.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01446; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ip209-183-86-53.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.53]) by indy3.indy.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA24694; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:16:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37C4F5A2.6935@indy.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:06:58 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bargyla Rateaver CC: Misha , SANET-mg Subject: Re: Time out References: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> <37C26DDE.36D1@indy.net> <37C32F35.8D5EEECB@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2360 Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > You better take that back, sir !!!!! right away !!!!! > Sorry Bargyla, can't do that. I would assume that you also believe the sun rotates around the earth , or do you have a biblical " interpretation" that explains that one away. Seems every biblical, talamudic, torahic, bagavatgetic or whatever fictional inaccuracies are explainable with the proper twist. By the way, the earth is the center of the cosmos. later, -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 09:55:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12577 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27343 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:21:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27245 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:24:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'pumpkinbirdie@webtv.net'" Subject: Info request: growing coleus forskohlii Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:23:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2361 Please e-mail pumpkinbirdie@webtv.net directly with your replies, since they are not subscribed to sanet. From: pumpkinbirdie@webtv.net (pumpkin birdie) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:09:48 -1000 (HST) Subject: growing coleus forskohlii We live in Hawaii and would like to find a source of the Indian ayruvedic herb, coleus forskohlii. There is ome info. on the internet for commercial sources of the processed herb in pill form for human comsumption. We'd like information about growing this herb. Can't even find a good picture of it to see what it looks like. Anyone have any knwledge of this? Thanks! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 10:45:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13501 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17582 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:59:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17535 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:58:58 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 862567D9.004C8595; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:55:49 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 862567D9.004CB2A9 ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:57:44 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-ID: <862567D9.004CB137.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:57:40 -0500 Subject: Great Cities/Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant Urban Water Resources Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=IVPYXyfynGvIkPFQiJsdoEErYXfHGVHQnMesUnkY9gcJLfHtsTsSp2bx" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2362 --0__=IVPYXyfynGvIkPFQiJsdoEErYXfHGVHQnMesUnkY9gcJLfHtsTsSp2bx Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Please reply to Robin Goettel at goettel@uiuc.edu ......... ANNOUNCING AN IMPORTANT NATIONAL EVENT . . . --0__=IVPYXyfynGvIkPFQiJsdoEErYXfHGVHQnMesUnkY9gcJLfHtsTsSp2bx Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =A0Great Cities/Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant Urban Water Resources Confer= ence =A0=A0=A0=A0IMPROVED DECISION-MAKING FOR WATER RESOURCES: =A0=A0=A0 THE KEY TO SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT FOR METROPOLITAN REGI= ONS =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 September 16-17, 1999 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 University of Illinois at Chicago =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Chicago, Illinois WE EXTEND A SPECIAL INVITATION TO THE FOLLOWING PROFESSIONALS: 1.=A0 Practitioners, professionals, and environmental and planning= officials involved in water resources, sustainable development, and regional= growth issues and projects. 2.=A0 Scholars in water resource research and related educational disciplines. 3.=A0 Government officials interested in water resource and region= al growth issues =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 For complete conference information and regi= stration materials:=A0 < http://www.uic.edu/depts/oceps/sea-grant >http://www.uic.edu/depts/oceps/sea-grant KEYNOTE SPEAKERS: -=A0 Honorable William M. Daley (invited) =A0=A0 U.S. Secretary of Commerce -=A0 Honorable David Crombie =A0=A0 Chair, Waterfront Regeneration Trust, Toronto, Ontario, Can= ada -=A0 Franklin M. Fisher =A0=A0 Professor of Economics, Massachusetts Institute of Technolo= gy, Cambridge, Massachusetts OVERALL PURPOSE OF CONFERENCE: This important national conference seeks to bring together hydrolo= gical resource scholars, researchers, state, federal and municipal offic= ials, practitioners, and civic organizations to advance the understandin= g of water resources as the basis of sustainable metropolitan communiti= es. THE CONFERENCE WILL: 1.=A0 Develop a more sophisticated understanding of the relationsh= ip between regional economic growth and its hydrological resource base. 2.=A0 Examine case studies highlighting problems and explore possi= ble responses that can support region-based governance of urban water resources. 3.=A0 Offer an overview of problems imposed by current water suppl= y and sewage infrastructure practices and their economic implications. 4.=A0 Present a vision of how improved water resource modeling, co= mbined with preservation of existing natural capital, might guide future inves= tments in urban hydrological infrastructure. 5.=A0 Identify the research requirements necessary to create regio= nal-scale integrated economic-ecologic models and decision-making tools that= can guide future urban water infrastructure investments and governance= . Again, for complete conference information and registration materi= als:=A0 < http://www.uic.edu/depts/oceps/sea-grant >http://www.uic.edu/depts/oceps/sea-grant <<<< ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robin G. Goettel, Communications Coordinator Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant College Program University of Illinois 63 Mumford Hall 1301 W. Gregory Drive Urbana, IL 61801 ph 217 333-9448 fax 217 333-2614 email goettel@uiuc.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = --0__=IVPYXyfynGvIkPFQiJsdoEErYXfHGVHQnMesUnkY9gcJLfHtsTsSp2bx-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 10:56:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14020 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19413 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:03:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19396 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-45.csj.net [12.29.22.45]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA12979 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:02:31 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Subject: need a paper on pesticide combos and endocrine function Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:00:59 -0500 Message-ID: <000101beefcb$6f5518c0$6c46fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2363 I will pay the costs for someone to get me a copy of this paper. I have no way to get it, I am not affiliated with a university and the Illinois public library system says they can't do it. Donna Fezler 217 243-7683 fax 217 245 2919 Jacksonville, IL Endocrine, immune, and behavioral effects of aldicarb (carbamate), atrazine (triazine) and nitrate (fertilizer) mixtures at groundwater concentrations Toxicol Ind Health 1999 vol 15, issue 1-2 pp133-150 99204011 This paper describes the results of 5 years of research on interactive effects of mixtures of aldicarb, atrazine, and nitrate on endocrine, immune, and nervous system function. The concentrations of chemicals used were the same order of magnitude as current maximum contaminant levels (MCLs) for all three compounds. Such levels occur in groundwater across the United States. Dosing was through voluntary consumption of drinking water. We used fractional and full factorial designs with center replicates to determine multifactor effects. We used chronic doses in experiments that varied in duration from 22 to 103 days. We tested for changes in thyroid hormone levels, ability to make antibodies to foreign proteins, and aggression in wild deer mice, Peromyscus maniculatus, and white outbred Swiss Webster mice, Mus musculus, ND4 strain. Endocrine, immune, and behavior changes occurred due to doses of mixtures, but rarely due to single compounds at the same concentrations. Immune assay data suggest the possibility of seasonal effects at low doses. We present a multiple-level model to help interpret the data in the context of human health and biological conservation concerns. We discuss six testing deficiencies of currently registered pesticides, and suggest areas of human health concerns if present trends in pesticide use continue. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 11:09:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14242 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25646 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:14:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25550 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.193] (st-ppp19.hevanet.com [198.5.254.193]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA05548; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908261413.HAA05548@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:16:49 -0700 Subject: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2364 Comment: I can't prove it just from this article, but this material sounds very much like it was bred by traditional methods, not Genetic Manipulation. ------------------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases Date: Thu, Aug 26, 1999, 2:27 AM STORY LEAD: ARS Releases New Soybean Disease Defenses ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov August 26, 1999 ----------- A new soybean variety and a germplasm line that fight off some major crop diseases have been released by Agricultural Research Service scientists. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. Research geneticist Jeffrey M. Tyler of ARS' Crop Genetics and Production Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., developed the new variety, called Bolivar, in cooperation with the Mississippi Agricultural and Forestry Experiment Station, Mississippi State, Miss. In field studies, Bolivar had high seed yield and good plant height in early season plantings, an environment that normally suppresses plant growth. It is adapted to the clay soils of the lower Mississippi River valley and east Mississippi. Bolivar is also tolerant to Phytophthora rot and resistant to stem canker and soybean cyst nematode race 3. It has moderate resistance to races 2 and 5. ARS research geneticist Thomas C. Kilen, also with the Stoneville unit, developed and released the new high-yielding soybean germplasm line D95-5246. It is resistant to Phytophthora rot and soybean cyst nematodes races 3 and 14. The fungus Phytophthora sojae causes Phytophthora rot, a major soybean disease. Millions of soybean bushels are lost each year to this disease. Soybean cyst nematodes are worm-like pests that eat soybean roots, causing more losses than all other soybean pathogens combined. The nematodes destroyed nearly 16.4 million bushels of soybeans last year. Last year, combined losses from both were estimated at 20 million bushels in 16 southern states. These two new releases should give farmers another defense against major soybean crop- killers. To date, Stoneville scientists have developed 29 high-yielding soybean varieties and 24 new germplasm lines with improved pest resistance. Small amounts of seed are available from the scientists for research purposes only. An in-depth article on soybean research appears in the August issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/aug99/soy0899.htm ---------- Scientific contacts: Jeffrey M. Tyler and Thomas C. Kilen, ARS Crop Genetics and Production Research Unit, Stoneville, Miss., 38776, (phone) 601-686-5241, (fax) 601-686-5218, jtyler@ag.gov, tkilen@ag.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 11:27:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14590 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:27:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03951 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:31:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA03912 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 8825 ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:28:52 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 1928; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:28:53 -0400 Message-Id: <26AUG99.11319720.0028.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:28:52 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Subject: GMO's and Europe's banking community X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2365 I was very interested to see Kirsten's post. There is a point of view that "the market" (aka equity, futures, derivatives etc) has all the relevant information and prices assets in a rational manner. Like all myths, there is surely some truth to be found here, and given the downside risks these companies face, it has been a bit of a mystery to me that the short sellers of this world have not alreay driven the shares of these firms into the ground ...... .....time will tell. john henning ========================================== Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:27:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: GMO's and Europe's banking community To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >From the progressive review's website -> GUARDIAN (LONDON): Europe's biggest bank has advisedthe world's largest investors to sell their shares in leading companies involved in the development of genetically modified organisms because consumers do not want to buy their products. In a report sent to several thousand of the world's large institutional investors, including British pension funds, Deutsche Bank says that "growing negative sentiment" is creating problems for the leading companies, including Monsanto and Novartis. __________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 11:49:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15110 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15320 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:52:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smta-hub-2.CGNET.COM (smta-hub-2.CGNET.COM [198.93.224.234]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15277 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csi.cgnet.com ([192.156.137.135]) by smta-hub-2.cgnet.com (PMDF V5.2-32 #39435) with ESMTP id <0FH20046RUJ6Z6@smta-hub-2.cgnet.com> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cabihubex.cabi.org by CSI.CGNET.COM (PMDF V5.1-10 #18290) with SMTP id <01JF7Q1IHZFQ001ILE@CSI.CGNET.COM>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 06:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 198.93.224.54 by cabihubex.cabi.org (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:01:18 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by cabihubex.cabi.org with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:01:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 06:56:25 -0700 From: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" Subject: RE: Time out To: "'richmo@indy.net'" Cc: "'Sustainable Agriculture List'" Message-id: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404EAC08FF@10.248.CABI.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2366 I think your answer requires an apology to Bargyla. What an insult. Your knowledge of the Bible is pathetic. The Bible says nothing of the sort. Why comment on something you obviously know little or nothing about. We still say the sun 'rises' and 'sets' without questioning the scientific accuracy of that. It's not meant to be a scientific statement, but a commonplace description of what one sees. The Bible often does that, and so it should. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich Molini [SMTP:richmo@indy.net] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 9:07 AM > To: Bargyla Rateaver > Cc: Misha; SANET-mg > Subject: Re: Time out > > Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > > > You better take that back, sir !!!!! right away !!!!! > > > Sorry Bargyla, can't do that. I would assume that you also believe the > sun rotates around the earth , or do you have a biblical " > interpretation" that explains that one away. Seems every biblical, > talamudic, torahic, bagavatgetic or whatever fictional inaccuracies are > explainable with the proper twist. By the way, the earth is the center > of the cosmos. > later, > -- > Rich Molini > 2419 East 281st Street > Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 > http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 13:00:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15796 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06005 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:31:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA05956 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.59] [199.175.106.37] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11K1TO-0006dnC for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:32:20 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: ladybugs and fruit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2367 Thank you very much, all of you who answered my question about the yellow ladybugs. Someone kindly pointed me to a web site that has photos of cucumber beetles. What I have are not cucumber beetles. You mention that it is doubtful that the ladybugs would or could break into the plums and blackberries. Right now the wasps are thick on all fruit. It may well be that the ladybugs are just enjoying a sugary treat after the wasps open the door for them. My faulty memory tells me we used to have only orange ladybugs with black dots. Now we have orange and red and yellow ones of several shades. A lot of people buy packages of ladybugs as predators to get rid of aphids and mealybugs, and, of course, many of them fly free and multiply. Thank you all again, I've learned a few things, and am happy to say that there are no cucumber beetles on any of my cucumbers, summer squash, or zucchini. Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 13:00:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15983 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16452 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:50:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nygate.undp.org (nygate.undp.org [192.124.42.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16351; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:50:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from umka.undp.org (umka.undp.org [192.124.42.40]) by nygate.undp.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.3) with ESMTP id LAA17141; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:49:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from inet01.hq.undp.org ([127.0.0.1]) by umka.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA74E6; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:46:20 -0400 Received: from undp.org ([165.65.10.98]) by inet01.hq.undp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA572A; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:42:15 -0400 Message-ID: <37C55F42.537082F5@undp.org> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:37:39 -0400 From: "David Fazzino" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Info Request on Mushroom Production References: <199908261403.KAA19544@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C6B10D92AEE74ADD8B4CED2B" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2368 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C6B10D92AEE74ADD8B4CED2B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a couple of questions regarding mushroom production. First, in regards to production in the United States, are there alternatives to the addition of animal manure in the production of Agaricus sp (white button mushrooms). Second what is the possibility of utilizing mushrooms to increase food security (either via subsistence or increased income) in less developed countries? Are there organizations/individuals who have worked with this concept in the past? Any contact information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, David Fazzino --------------C6B10D92AEE74ADD8B4CED2B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for david.fazzino@undp.org Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: david.fazzino@undp.org n: ;david.fazzino@undp.org email;internet: david.fazzino@undp.org x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------C6B10D92AEE74ADD8B4CED2B-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 13:04:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16875 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20474 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:01:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20269 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-8.csj.net [12.29.22.8]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18009 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:00:38 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Subject: RE: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:58:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01beefdb$e9cdaf80$6c46fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199908261413.HAA05548@hevanet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2369 The Illinois State Fair had a large display prominently showing GM as just another in a long line of genetic modification processes through history. Among the examples depicted in large murals were Mendel's experiments with peas, cheesemaking, and pasteurization. Therefore, under THAT definition this is genetic manipulation. It didn't say who paid for the display as it was part of the Illinois exhibit, but Monsanto was mentioned a few times. I was at an economic development meeting the week prior to the fair and the Illinois Dept of AG Director of Marketing was absolutely beaming about how they were trying to educate the public that GM was no different than pasteurization. Just doing her job, she said later. Donna Fezler -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [SMTP:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Lon J. Rombough Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 9:17 AM To: SANET; AGRISYNERGY Subject: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases Comment: I can't prove it just from this article, but this material sounds very much like it was bred by traditional methods, not Genetic Manipulation. ------------------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases Date: Thu, Aug 26, 1999, 2:27 AM STORY LEAD: ARS Releases New Soybean Disease Defenses ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov August 26, 1999 ----------- A new soybean variety and a germplasm line that fight off some major crop diseases have been released by Agricultural Research Service scientists. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. Research geneticist Jeffrey M. Tyler of ARS' Crop Genetics and Production Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., developed the new variety, called Bolivar, in cooperation with the Mississippi Agricultural and Forestry Experiment Station, Mississippi State, Miss. In field studies, Bolivar had high seed yield and good plant height in early season plantings, an environment that normally suppresses plant growth. It is adapted to the clay soils of the lower Mississippi River valley and east Mississippi. Bolivar is also tolerant to Phytophthora rot and resistant to stem canker and soybean cyst nematode race 3. It has moderate resistance to races 2 and 5. ARS research geneticist Thomas C. Kilen, also with the Stoneville unit, developed and released the new high-yielding soybean germplasm line D95-5246. It is resistant to Phytophthora rot and soybean cyst nematodes races 3 and 14. The fungus Phytophthora sojae causes Phytophthora rot, a major soybean disease. Millions of soybean bushels are lost each year to this disease. Soybean cyst nematodes are worm-like pests that eat soybean roots, causing more losses than all other soybean pathogens combined. The nematodes destroyed nearly 16.4 million bushels of soybeans last year. Last year, combined losses from both were estimated at 20 million bushels in 16 southern states. These two new releases should give farmers another defense against major soybean crop- killers. To date, Stoneville scientists have developed 29 high-yielding soybean varieties and 24 new germplasm lines with improved pest resistance. Small amounts of seed are available from the scientists for research purposes only. An in-depth article on soybean research appears in the August issue of Agricultural Research magazine. The story is also on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/aug99/soy0899.htm ---------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 13:05:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16911 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:05:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00628 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:18:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00594 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15565; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000101beefcb$6f5518c0$6c46fea9@donna> References: <000101beefcb$6f5518c0$6c46fea9@donna> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:13:56 -0700 To: From: Misha Subject: Re: need a paper on pesticide combos and endocrine function Cc: SANET-mg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2370 Hi, all-- Donna wrote: >I will pay the costs for someone to get me a copy of this paper. I have no >way to get it, I am not affiliated with a university and the Illinois public >library system says they can't do it. > >Donna Fezler >217 243-7683 >fax 217 245 2919 >Jacksonville, IL > >Endocrine, immune, and behavioral effects of aldicarb (carbamate), atrazine >(triazine) and nitrate (fertilizer) mixtures at groundwater concentrations > >Toxicol Ind Health 1999 vol 15, issue 1-2 pp133-150 A PDF version of this paper by Warren Porter, James Jaeger, and Ian Carlson appears on the World Wide Web at http://www.nceas.ucsb.edu/~porter/endo.pdf You will need the Adobe Acrobat Reader (available for free download from various sites) to read it. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is a revolution, dammit! We're going to have to offend SOMEbody! --John Adams (in the musical /1776/) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 13:07:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17009 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:07:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28750 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:12:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28628 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990826161132.KHIJ16727.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:11:32 -0700 Message-ID: <37C567CD.62DC6065@home.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:14:05 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: water utilization model References: <199908261403.KAA19544@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2371 sounds like "water utilization"should read "efficiency"(same as)... so for a given rainfall, one would look at amounts of runoff, amounts evaporated, stored to aquafier either natural or manmade,amounts of environmentally benefiecient transducers(trees, plants, etc.), amounts transpired thru the vegetation/evaporated from the soil,etc, etc... how one could crunch this all down into a mathematical model is beyond me....but here's some info i cullled from the net....courtesy of http://www.tiac.net/users/seeker/creative.html """........Another interesting invention that has never been implemented on a large scale was designed in 1931 by M. Achille Knapen. He succeeded in condensing and extracting water from warm air to irrigate fields and vineyards in southern France with what he called, an "air well" (See U.S. patent no. 1,816,592). Looking like a 40-foot concrete beehive, it was possible to produce as much as 6,000 gallons of water daily for every 1,000 square feet of condensing surface. An airwell can be built on practically any scale, and the wall materials can be concrete blocks, bricks or concentric hollow shells filled with sand or earth. A small airwell 12 feet high and 12 feet across with walls 2 feet thick can supply a generous output of daily water. It can be fitted with top and bottom air pipes, and a multitude of condensing plates on the inside. Warm air circulates and gives up moisture on the cool inside condensing plates angled downward toward a catch basin at the bottom were it is collected. Using scrap and local materials, makeshift air wells could help solve many water problems in drought ridden areas of the world, especially in Third World countries. """ bill evans > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 13:13:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17112 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23284 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:08:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from reuben.ruralist.com (mfu14-153.mfu.org [206.10.14.153] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23209 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p134.ts1.diac.com (209.64.42.176) by reuben.ruralist.com (Worldmail 1.3.167) for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; 26 Aug 1999 11:10:22 -0500 Received: by p134.ts1.diac.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BEEFA9.E31D1CC0@p134.ts1.diac.com>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:00:55 -0700 Message-ID: <01BEEFA9.E31D1CC0@p134.ts1.diac.com> From: Lynn Eschbach To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: A suburban sprawl haiku Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:00:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEEFA9.E31D1CC0" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2372 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEFA9.E31D1CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A suburban sprawl haiku: 100 houses Planted on 20 acres Cannot be eaten ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEFA9.E31D1CC0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjcRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAsAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHNhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5u Y3N1LmVkdQBTTVRQAHNhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5uY3N1LmVkdQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA AB4AAzABAAAAFgAAAHNhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5uY3N1LmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEw AQAAABgAAAAnc2FuZXQtbWdAY2VzLm5jc3UuZWR1JwACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOlNBTkVULU1H QENFUy5OQ1NVLkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAFgAAAHNhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5u Y3N1LmVkdQAAAAIB918BAAAASQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHNhbmV0LW1nQGNl cy5uY3N1LmVkdQBTTVRQAHNhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5uY3N1LmVkdQAAAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAA AgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAplZAQSAAQAZAAAAQSBzdWJ1cmJhbiBzcHJhd2wgaGFpa3UgAM4IAQWA AwAOAAAAzwcIABoACgAAABAABAAWAQEggAMADgAAAM8HCAAaAAkAOQAsAAQAagEBCYABACEAAAA1 QURCMTM2RUY5NTlEMzExQTlGQjAwMDBDMEZFOTMwMQAuBwEDkAYAdAcAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsA IwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAwJSYeOTvvgEeAHAAAQAA ABkAAABBIHN1YnVyYmFuIHNwcmF3bCBoYWlrdSAAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb7v5HiHbhPbW1n5 EdOp+wAAwP6TAQAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABcAAABseW5uLmVzY2hiYWNo QHJtZnUub3JnAAADAAYQLKIDzAMABxA7AAAAHgAIEAEAAAA8AAAAQVNVQlVSQkFOU1BSQVdMSEFJ S1U6MTAwSE9VU0VTUExBTlRFRE9OMjBBQ1JFU0NBTk5PVEJFRUFURU4AAgEJEAEAAACEBAAAgAQA ADQLAABMWkZ1tZMqCQMACgByY3BnMTI1cjIMYGMxAzABBwtgbpEOEDAzMw8WZmUPkk8B9wKkA2MC AGNoCsBzhGV0AtFwcnEyAACSKgqhbm8SUCAwAdCFAdA2D6AwNTA0FCHzAdAUEDR9B20CgwBQA9T7 Ef8TC2IT4RRQE7IY9BTQrwcTAoACkQjmOwlvMBrf+mUOMDUcCh0hHN8d6Rv0/x4SHH8gTyANH48d vxwPEGD8Mjgl2ibxJq8nuRv0J+K/Jk8qHyndKV8njytUOQ5QHy6kMAEoIzAAAoJzdHnqbAeQaAng dAAAE1AD8FBkY3RsCrFcMlhhmGRqdTFwBRBnaAVCOxYyDAFjCcAyYAMwc258ZXgXMAewBbAAwAJz c7EAUHNiMhRQMWBhE/D0XGsJ4HALkDI/MqMIYOsykAuAZTGgdjlgAUAzm78MMDRkKAA3QASgC4Bn J/HpNOZiYRcQZAIgNaA1Rucx0DOQO5EgMTEzDlA2n/83rzi/AFE5/ACgNG48fz2G/zEkD8A+jz+f QK8OUDnvQw/bRB89szMCghMQYzZgS6GTM5A9sHRpOZAgRAEQqGF1bAVAUArAYQnA4GFwaCBGAiE2 JCVA6GZpLQ+QOAFAOTBQM+tHDzKjYgsgcglQUlIWoNlSUnc0JUEXAHAB0E1yfzO/Sp9Lpk/QTpAF EAIwLUNPMANhOiBUb1ewUyh1YmoFkHRXsERh6HRlOjYkNk//UQ9SH/9TL1Q5McA9ow4hS6E6tg5Q m1VvVn5SOYEXASBIPZH7BJA2JDdZb1p/W49cnTkPL12/D5BpcAjQYgqwdDj/SfoPVEYQX79gxmoA YdALULx5L09AXLALEWJFczYk/ygAYz9kT2VfXK9UT2tfbG/vbXVX0ld0WKk5b78zPwMwHWmzOXOf dK96oERvY/51B4ACMAXQTwAaAXjSeDD3eHBxUQGAblgwAGAJ8E2g730AAgE14F5SZQDwfQAxgJJw HoBcdgiQd2sLgP5ka0CAogTwB0AQYQFADgDvcSI9goIFAhBvBUIXIRLyDVjAbQtRWMAgQzpc6lxX AG9O4W1PMAMQB5BNhLBNDeADYHNvAYAgrk8BIA3gf/BchmZFAMD1AxAuS3B0fdAXEHhwNSHtZ3J4 AUB/AW4x0BrwiAQ9TjRjAyAS8wCABZBsdv9BoUbQDnA14IqSAZAAIIsi/4DxfUEBwYqRFuAPcAAA RtDzDNABkCAuGhKKiA5Qi0L/TnB4wIu/jM+N3w/ARtAFgbePf5CPkZ9sa0BG0GyPP/uT/5UFKY4M JUCS35e/lPT4YiAoApGY34rTWVCWj/+bT5xfnW+LAGMQnrKLj6Af/6EvjgwoAJ6/pD+lT6ZfiwD/ eACjP6jPqd+q5Ar5AzB4L/t5P3rNewqFr6Swb7F/BUDwe0Egc1ggCHBLMAOgG3KATsB3AyAW4Glr dX46CoUKhWlhPXAIYBcQc/0KhVAPUVjANSACIEVgNaC/ANAa8Lm2tB+1L7Y3QwBwuxNQBUBiE4A9 kFjAbrtmDH0AwADAMAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzDAbQse5O++AUAACDDAbQse 5O++AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAA AAsAL4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA EYUAAAAAAAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEA AAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAAAQAA AAAAAAADAA00/TcAANUK ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEFA9.E31D1CC0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 13:18:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17264 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:18:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04066 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:27:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postal.indy.net (postal.indy.net [199.3.65.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04022 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:27:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from indy4.indy.net (root@indy4 [199.3.65.4]) by postal.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27256; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (ip209-183-86-28.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.28]) by indy4.indy.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29986; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:28:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37C52298.E6D@indy.net> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:18:48 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" CC: "'Sustainable Agriculture List'" Subject: Re: Time out References: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404EAC08FF@10.248.CABI.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2373 Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: > > I think your answer requires an apology to Bargyla. What an insult. Your > knowledge of the Bible is pathetic. The Bible says nothing of the sort. Why > comment on something you obviously know little or nothing about. We still > say the sun 'rises' and 'sets' without questioning the scientific accuracy > of that. It's not meant to be a scientific statement, but a commonplace > description of what one sees. The Bible often does that, and so it should. > ANTON, In yesterday's popular vernacular, you should "chill out". I never said I possessed any biblical knowledge. I do not care to fritter away my time on that matter. I have all along been commenting only on the culture(s) which produced that great work of fiction (and I will grant some suspect history). I see no real harm in your, BR, Bluestem, etc beliefs, if you don't try to apply them to 1999. When you make an attempt to validate, substantiate, or apply statements from a document written that long ago, you run into some real logistical nightmares unless you play the "faith" trump. -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 15:28:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20341 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07763 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:26:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07661 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:28:07 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.160] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A6BB63600182; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:26:03 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:23:24 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Time out Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2374 On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:18:48 +0000, Rich Molini wrote: >will grant some suspect history). I see no real harm in your, BR, >Bluestem, etc beliefs, if you don't try to apply them to 1999. When you >make an attempt to validate, substantiate, or apply statements from a >document written that long ago, you run into some real logistical >nightmares unless you play the "faith" trump. Or unless you believe that human nature has not changed all that much over the last 100 generations. 2500 year-old references to "road rage" --- see 2 Kings 9:20 --- suggest that it probably hasn't. Our toys may be bigger, and our tools more powerful, but inside --- where it matters --- we are not significantly different, as any even half-hearted reading of Proverbs would quickly establish. And as so concisely put in the Bhagavad Gita ( also about 2500 years ago --- date uncertain, first recorded in Sanskrit ca. 250 AD, from earlier oral transmissions ) "The wise retain equanimity in the face of negativity because they recognise it as the release of stress." Regards, Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 15:48:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20341 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07763 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:26:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07661 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:28:07 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.160] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A6BB63600182; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:26:03 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:23:24 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Time out Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2375 On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:18:48 +0000, Rich Molini wrote: >will grant some suspect history). I see no real harm in your, BR, >Bluestem, etc beliefs, if you don't try to apply them to 1999. When you >make an attempt to validate, substantiate, or apply statements from a >document written that long ago, you run into some real logistical >nightmares unless you play the "faith" trump. Or unless you believe that human nature has not changed all that much over the last 100 generations. 2500 year-old references to "road rage" --- see 2 Kings 9:20 --- suggest that it probably hasn't. Our toys may be bigger, and our tools more powerful, but inside --- where it matters --- we are not significantly different, as any even half-hearted reading of Proverbs would quickly establish. And as so concisely put in the Bhagavad Gita ( also about 2500 years ago --- date uncertain, first recorded in Sanskrit ca. 250 AD, from earlier oral transmissions ) "The wise retain equanimity in the face of negativity because they recognise it as the release of stress." Regards, Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 15:54:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21177 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15426 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:45:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.america.net (smtp.america.net [199.170.121.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15411 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:45:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.210.135.47] (max9-29.stc.net [208.210.135.29]) by smtp.america.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA25103 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEBD@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:51:34 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Hugh Lovel Subject: RE: Food irradiation and motorcycle helmets Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2376 >Second, the argument you make is like saying "helmet laws are not needed >since the root cause is people driving too fast and not being careful." >Sure, if everybody (every single person on the line) was more responsible >and careful in the meat industry, irradiation might not be needed. But shit >(literally) happens, things go wrong, people are inattentive, unseen >mistakes occur. This is true even in small scale production. The problem >in large scale production is that a minute amount of fecal material could >contaminate 100,000 pounds of ground beef, and hurt thousands of people in >one shot. > >The advantage of top-down regulation like helmet laws and irradiation of >meat, is that it provides a back-up safety system in case personal morality >and responsibility are inconsistent (as they always are in large human >systems like highways and meat packing plants). > >> Before we start nuking everything we eat, perhaps we should >> look at how the food is grown, what's being fed to it,.... > >Despite your inflammatory language, the argument against irradiation really >comes down to whether or not the practice has any deleterious side-effects, >and how serious they are. > >Dale I don't see where motorcycle helmet laws are even roughly equivalent to mandatory irradiation of foods. The E-coli problem in meats is an outcome of raising beef in feedlots and feeding them the by-products of grain processing. These concentrates give the animals they are fed to the equivalent of chronic diarhea and in time the most virulent coliforms result. These virulent strains of E-coli perhaps COULD occur in the digestive tracts of pasture raised animals, but the fact is there is no evidence that they do. With feedlot (confinement) beef there IS the likelihood of virulent coliforms multiplying in the digestive tracts of the cattle and potentially infecting every animal in the feedlot since they are constantly wading in their excrement. Any sort of wound or breach of their skin and you then have virulent coliforms in the flesh. Moreover, if you've ever worked in a slaughter house you know that the animals come in covered in excrement and despite skilled removal of the hides contamination of the outside of the carcass with manure from the hide inevitably occurs occasionally. This isn't too much of a problem with the steaks since even a rare steak is cooked on the outside where the contamination occurs. But for hamburger the outside of the carcass is ground up and mixed along with everything else. So much for eating juicy, pink-on-the-inside chopped sirloin steaks at your favorite steakhouse--or for that matter the same goes for fixing them at home. With commercial hamburger the rule any more is cook it to a frazzle to kill the coliforms because there is a fair chance of getting seriously ill or dying otherwise. If you are fortunate enough (as I am) to raise your own beef on pasture and hay and take it to a small, clean, local packing house (as I do) then you still may enjoy the luxury of juicy hamburgers. Is mandatory food irradiation the answer to making commercial hamburger coliform free? First, it isn't necessary. One only need cook one's hamburgers and meat loafs, etc. well done to avoid risk. The answer ought to be phasing out animal confinement operations since these pollutive eyesores (and nosesores), while being the darlings of the grain processors, are the worst and most unecological things going on in agriculture. And even disregarding soil errosion and chemical abuses associated with grain farming, or the air and water quality issues of animal confinement, as for the quality of life of the animals or the quality of food on the tables of consumers animal confinement operations are the pits there too. As for the reasons advanced for mandatory irradiation, the real bottom line is the meat processors could then fill their warehouses when there is a drought in Texas and beef has to either be slaughtered or starve--so the price is 7 cents a pound on the hoof. Irradiated it would last long enough to be sold when beef prices soar because of the resulting shortage after all the cows in Texas are slaughtered and beef raisers are trying to rebuild herds. What a great way to make a killing, and a little judicious lobbying and contributions to some political campaigns is easily affordable by comparison to the potential profits. So the food safety issue is rather a good sales approach but it isn't the compelling reason behind lobbying efforts. If we wanted safe food, we really should raise beef on grass and hay like nature has for untold thousands of years. As for the safety of irradiated foods, what happens when ionizing radiation sterilizes food is that high energy (primarily gamma) particles bombard the chemical bonds in the food, breaking and changing the molecular structures at virtually random places. The result is what is called "unique radiolytic by-products" or in other words a potpouri of unusual chemicals that our bodies have little experience with and that we don't even have methods of chemical analysis to fully identify. So it is quite true that we don't know what the health consequences may be of eating irradiated foods. However, it wouldn't be good science to assume that there would be no consequences or even that there would be no adverse consequences. Almost certainly there would be adverse consequences, but there is virtually no way of predicting what they might be or how serious they might be. They might be quite serious indeed. As you point out we can be pretty sure of what will happen when an unprotected skull hits the road surface (or anything else) at 60 mph, but what our peril might be from eating irradiated beef is anyone's guess. Does that make it advisable for government to mandate irradiation of beef and turn the population into guinea pigs so we find out what consequences can be expected? Hardly. And we certainly needn't pass such measures so the grain processors, feedlots and slaughter operations can increase their already bloated profits. Much better if we all just cook our hamburgers well done. Regards, Hugh Lovel ***** Hugh Lovel 8475 Dockery Road Blairsville, Georgia 30512 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 16:41:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22359 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18079 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18000 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:42:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21161 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id PAA26216 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:41:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:41:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Time out In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2377 On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Bluestem Associates wrote: > And as so concisely put in the Bhagavad Gita ( also about 2500 years > ago --- date uncertain, first recorded in Sanskrit ca. 250 AD, from > earlier oral transmissions ) > > "The wise retain equanimity in the face of negativity because they > recognise it as the release of stress." 'Every day the intelligent person learns something new, but every day the wise person gives up some certainty' The Buddha. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 16:50:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22537 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19798 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:48:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19729 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp112.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.112]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E93CE617CE; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401beeffc$e9cee500$709144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , "Bargyla Rateaver" Cc: "Misha" , "SANET-mg" References: <886D2061CE9@agecon.uga.edu> <37C26DDE.36D1@indy.net> <37C32F35.8D5EEECB@earthlink.net> <37C4F5A2.6935@indy.net> Subject: Re: Time out Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:55:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2378 I think the point about having this talk on Sanet is not to question one persons thoughts but to say that the USDA is releasing stuff not labeling it and making it really hard for a lot of folks whose religious teaching have dietary laws . there are a lot of those folks and even if you do not feel as they do ,still u should know the USDA mixing up life on earth by mixing up DNA are making these people take note. If the USDA wants to not care about all these folks then so be it. But I feel we should have a right to point out the USDA how they are making life hard on people who are trying to follow their religious teaching . I can understand the scribes and Pharisees saying lets leave God out of this and hanging the man on a tree for his words alone. and I can see things have not changed much . Still the USDA and these big money companies don't care about our beliefs so they not only don't label but want to sneak the DNA Frankenstein food in on us. so I am not saying every one has to have the same ideals. its just a shame that the USDA and friends not only don't care about our God but work against many religions like Jews, Hindus,Moslems,vegetarians,and on and on all those that have dietary laws. that's why I feel there is a place on sanet for this kind of talk ..here . Lets put it on the table and see what other have to say. . Now they that love the darkness and want to keep us all in the dark may not like this talk. I want to know what I am eating and drinking and breathing and they want to keep us in the dark. IMHO you notice how in the beginning when they first started releasing DNA altered stuff their was public talk most all against it but what did the USDA do. They stopped the public input and just started releasing stuff not caring about what the people thought and not only that hiding their wickedness. Mrs. Rateaver is brave she know full well what happen when you talk about God to a group like this. She can take your ridicule she's tough in her beliefs and I may not think as she does but I can see why folks who trust in God question the United States Department of Ag. and want to tell them about their wickedness and hope they will change. until then I don't trust one product from the USA that is not organic and can understand why the rest of the world is just saying NO. . check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Rich Molini To: Bargyla Rateaver Cc: Misha ; SANET-mg Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 1:06 AM Subject: Re: Time out > Bargyla Rateaver wrote: > > > You better take that back, sir !!!!! right away !!!!! > > > Sorry Bargyla, can't do that. I would assume that you also believe the > sun rotates around the earth , or do you have a biblical " > interpretation" that explains that one away. Seems every biblical, > talamudic, torahic, bagavatgetic or whatever fictional inaccuracies are > explainable with the proper twist. By the way, the earth is the center > of the cosmos. > later, > -- > Rich Molini > 2419 East 281st Street > Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 > http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 17:23:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23747 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA15532 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:37:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15502; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA05376; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:36:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Sanet" , "sanet" , "'CAIA' listserve" , "IFFS" Subject: leadership seminar opportunity Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:31:46 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2379 ANNOUNCEMENT Leadership for a Living Landscape The Taproot Seminar Series is kicking off November 13-19 with a six-day intensive leadership seminar at Georgia OKeefes former home in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Multi-functional Agriculture: Leadership for a Living Landscape is the focus of the first of six seminars. The Learning Communities Project, funded primarily by the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, is sponsoring the seminar series. Participants are being solicited from farm groups, land trust groups, conservation organizations, rural planning initiatives, rural development agencies, water quality projects, extension services and environmental groups. The most important characteristic of participants, however, is that they seek to go on an adventure -- to stretch their perspectives, to expand their way of thinking and to open to discoveries about themselves. The seminar will blend learning about effective strategies with awareness about how our inner worlds drive our work. Participants will map the system within which they work, uncover mental models, deepen theories of leadership for social change, analyze conflict styles and management, increase skills of building healthy teams and develop strategies for shared visions, policy development, issue framing and creative communications. The group will learn about the concept and practice of multi-functional agriculture in Europe and different parts of the U.S. as a way to increase the involvement of multiple stakeholders in the future of agriculture. The concept of multi-functional agriculture implies that in addition to food and fiber, farms produce many of the public goods desired by society. These public goods include rural development, tourism attractions, food with regional distinctiveness, wildlife habitat and clean water. Stakeholders working in these various arenas need opportunities to discuss their common interests, to create shared visions and to develop common strategies which ultimately can lead to a healthier future for agriculture. Future seminars will focus on the World Trade Organization; connections among agriculture, diet and health; watershed organizing; alternative models of rural community organizing; and regional labels, green marketing and rural development. Leaders of the Learning Communities Project are Carol Anderson, Hal Hamilton, Mark Ritchie, Barbara Rusmore and Vicki Van Zee. For a full program description and application, contact Jeneene Spencer at 606-986-5336 or jspencer@centerss.org. Visit the web site at www.centerss.org. # # # To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 17:30:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23982 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20980 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:47:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20900 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id UAA01196; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:12:22 GMT Message-ID: <37C59F75.64E3B76B@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:11:33 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Truth & Belief Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2380 Excuse me for interupting, but wouldn't a better forum for religious debate be better served by a newsgroup FOR religious debate? I would think that a newsgroup/forum on sustainable agriculture and like subjects is not the best place for an on-going debate such as the one refererenced. There seems to be a lot of this religious debating on sanet that we have to delete through to find posts on the subjects we came to this forum for. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 17:30:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24002 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22361 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:49:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22289 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FLYLO (ppp237.cy-net.net [208.21.195.46]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA02530 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:48:45 -0500 Received: by FLYLO with Microsoft Mail id <01BEEFD7.551996A0@FLYLO>; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:26:13 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEEFD7.551996A0@FLYLO> From: Martha Wells To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: Hugh's lament Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:13:42 -0500 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2381 Hugh, while I normally read and enjoy everything you write, (on BD NOW and this list) I have to wonder at one sentence in your rant against irradiation of beef. Now don't get me wrong, I think it should be prominently labeled with bright radiation symbols, since the populace lost out to Big Time Industry in the actual approval of irradiated meats. But, this sentence out of your lengthy 'rant' puzzled me: <> As far as I know, we have yet to develop the ability to dissolve beef hides and hair as a food source. And, let me rant a little on my own: it's not the e-coli in the meat that has me worried, it's the antibiotics in the food itself to counteract the advent of e-coli and other close-contact organisms. I'm still on my anti-CAFO campaign and have been researching the methods used in raising poultry, hogs, and beef in close confinement. The results would frighten anyone. We may need to be more concerned over the poultry industry than the beef industry. When the only 'hide' we actually consume are pork or chicken skins, then turn around and grind feathers, dead birds, fecal matter and spent feeds back into BEEF feeds, aren't we (as an industry) asking for trouble? martha, Flylo Farms, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 17:45:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24445 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28114 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27994 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA02967 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007f01bef005$f46c6600$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "SANET-mg" Subject: Growing fava beans over the winter Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:59:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007C_01BEEFE4.6B187720" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2382 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BEEFE4.6B187720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello sanet: I am interested in growing fava beans over the winter in Connecticut = (USDA zone 6). I am growing them as a cover crop, but what I am = particularly interested in is growing a good crop of bean aphids and = lady beetles to use in my experiments next year. Therefore, I want fava = beans I can plant now that will survive the winter, if possible. In looking through "Managing Cover Crops Profitably," the information = sheets from SARE about cover crops in the Northeast U.S., and various = seed catalogs and extension publications, I get the impression that = survival of fava beans over the winter here is uncertain, but that there = may be cold-hardy varieties that can make it. Does anyone have experience with growing fava beans over the winter, = recommendations of cold-hardy varieties, and sources of seed? The = temperature here in the winter usually gets down to 0 degrees F. (about = -18 degrees C., I think) at least briefly and snow cover is unreliable. Thanks for any help. Kimberly Stoner CT Agricultural Experiment Station P.O. Box 1106 123 Huntington Street New Haven, CT 06504 203-974-8480 Kimberly.Stoner@po.state.ct.us ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BEEFE4.6B187720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hello sanet:
     
    I am interested in growing fava beans over the = winter in=20 Connecticut (USDA zone 6).  I am growing them as a cover crop, but = what I=20 am particularly interested in is growing a good crop of bean aphids and = lady=20 beetles to use in my experiments next year.  Therefore, I want fava = beans I=20 can plant now that will survive the winter, if possible.
     
    In looking through "Managing Cover Crops=20 Profitably," the information sheets from SARE about cover crops in = the=20 Northeast U.S., and various seed catalogs and extension publications, I = get the=20 impression that survival of fava beans over the winter here is = uncertain, but=20 that there may be cold-hardy varieties that can make it.
     
    Does anyone have experience with growing fava beans = over the=20 winter, recommendations of cold-hardy varieties, and sources of = seed?  The=20 temperature here in the winter usually gets down to 0 degrees F. (about = -18=20 degrees C., I think) at least briefly and snow cover is = unreliable.
     
    Thanks for any help.
    Kimberly Stoner
    CT Agricultural = Experiment=20 Station
    P.O. Box 1106
    123 Huntington Street
    New Haven, CT=20 06504
    203-974-8480
    Kimberly.Stoner@po.state.c= t.us
    ------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BEEFE4.6B187720-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 18:17:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25399 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18901 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:35:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA18882 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id QAA11225; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:34:21 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma010804; Thu, 26 Aug 99 16:34:01 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:34:02 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:34:00 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEC1@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Martha Wells'" Subject: RE: Hugh's lament Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:33:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2383 Martha, Hugh wrote: > < and mixed along > with everything else>> Martha wrote: > As far as I know, we have yet to develop the ability to > dissolve beef hides and hair as a food source. I think Hugh just meant that the outside of the skinned carcass is likely to be contaminated with fecal material, but it doesn't matter that much. It DOES matter when you grind it up into hamburger. > And, let me rant a little on my own: it's not the e-coli in > the meat that has me worried, it's the antibiotics in the > food itself to counteract the advent of e-coli and other > close-contact organisms. The elaboration of antibiotic-resistant pathogens from feeding antibiotics, seems more dangerous than the small amount of antibiotic residues that get into the meat. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 18:41:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25936 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:41:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28537 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:57:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28449 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d16-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.16]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA09591; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:55:35 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "mike richardson" , Subject: RE: Truth & Belief Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:01:04 +1000 Message-ID: <000f01bef00e$7e002660$103325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <37C59F75.64E3B76B@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2384 Dear SoR I think I would agree with your message were it not for the fact that there seems to be (from six months observation) a deep divide between participants in the discussion group, deeply affecting how they think about the land. I held back from contributing for quite some time. I think there are arguments either way: you can have a sulky 'us and them' sort of environment and talk about everything except your deepest motivation, or you can search for some understanding. I think in the end the less schizoid, though more exasperating, approach, of sharing minds, is preferable. Though the 'Time out' thread does not seem to involve too much mind-sharing, I must confess. The problem with short messages is that they tend more often to involve smart cracks from minds often unwilling to share. I regret the length of my last piece, but it did bear substantially upon agricultural issues at the end. Perhaps I should have flagged that at the front! Dennis -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of mike richardson Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 6:12 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Truth & Belief Excuse me for interupting, but wouldn't a better forum for religious debate be better served by a newsgroup FOR religious debate? I would think that a newsgroup/forum on sustainable agriculture and like subjects is not the best place for an on-going debate such as the one refererenced. There seems to be a lot of this religious debating on sanet that we have to delete through to find posts on the subjects we came to this forum for. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 18:43:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25981 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19431 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:37:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay1.smtp.psi.net (relay1.smtp.psi.net [38.8.14.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19404 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [38.167.41.1] (helo=facserver.fifthave.org) by relay1.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu id 11K7Ce-0001ph-00; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:37:01 -0400 Received: by FACSERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:39:08 -0400 Message-ID: From: Tom Smith To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Irradiated food Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:39:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2385 Tom replies: There is serious concern that irradiation will create mutagens in our food, such as benzene and formaldehyde, and ncluding some that have never been analyzed yet--the URPs--unknown radiolytic products. In reversing itself and calling the irradiation process safe, the FDA only looked at five studies, and has thrown out hundreds of other studies, which showed that these irradiated foods cause cancer in animals, and cause chromosomal abberations in Indian children who were fed the stuff. It's not even just a question of food safety, nor is it one of consumer choice. The food irradiation process would also entail the construction of many more irradiation plants, which would legitimate the whole nuclear energy cycle. That is probably the principle reason it is being promoted--so that the federal government can foist its nuclear waste upon the states and so that the federal government can get away with creating plutonium again.. There have been major accidents at these plants. Workers have been explosed to radiation. Radioactive water has been poured into public sewer systems. Dale's idea of consumer choice is infantile. It's like somebody saying, "Waahh! I want to go to the moon, so you have to build me a rocket ship, and a whole space program, to take me there." At whose expense? And what dangers, to the public, are intrinsic to what you are asking for? There are other questions and concerns involved besides your own whims. If you don't like the prospect of eating infected meat, which is the principle reason given for supporting Irradiation, then DON'T EAT IT. The human body was not designed to eat meat, even organic, free-range animal meats. And the crap they are using to feed animals these days--including sewage sludge--makes the problem much that worse, and would not be addressed by irradiation. Besides that, cattle farming is one of the greatest sources of global warming, both in terms of clear cut rainforests and the gases they emit. Tom Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:14:44 -0400 From: Cass Peterson Subject: RE: Food irradiation and motorcycle helmets Dale Wilson wrote: >Many see irradiation, at least in the >meat context, as a public health issue. Public policy often circumvents >free choice in the interest of personal safety. An example is helmet laws >for motorcyclists. A lot of people prefer to ride without a helmet. Should >that be illegal? I don't see these as analogous issues. There is no question about what happens when an unprotected skull hits the pavement at 60 miles per hour. There are still legitimate questions about what happens when irradiated foodstuffs are consumed as part of a long-term diet. It is not yet clear, to me and many others, that the connection between public policy and personal safety has been made for irradiated foods. Food safety is a public issue, of course, but irradiation is being promoted as a cure-all measure for food-borne disease problems that might better be solved by other means. If you keep banging yourself upside the head with a hammer, and as a result get a headache, should you take a high-strength pain reliever or should you stop banging yourself upside the head with a hammer? Before we start nuking everything we eat, perhaps we should look at how the food is grown, what's being fed to it, and how it is handled and processed on its way to the consumer. Maybe the problems could be solved there. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 20:43:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28206 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04670 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:00:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04662 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA14608 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:59:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-66.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.66) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014577; Thu Aug 26 18:58:36 1999 Message-ID: <002f01bef01e$d31c87a0$42f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" Cc: "SANET-mg" Subject: GM and religion Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:57:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2386 >Snipped quite a bit of below message. I do not think the GM food producers can ignore persons who diet forbids certain foods. This group most likely will not be swayed. Its only in the past week in various posts that the issue of "pure" food due to religious reasons got me thinking. I had already thought and felt sorry for the person who say is allergic to nuts and reads every label etc. Then bites into some totally nut unrelated food and has a allergic reaction. Anyone who is strict about there diet either allergy or religion has probably already for years been a very careful consumer. I think this is a group to be reckoned with. Consumers who know what the want to spend THEIR money on. Someone said it before "isn't the consumer always right?" These consumers will go elsewhere, organics, CSAs, co-ops etc in search of their food and I can't imagine they are a tiny group. I just found this very interesting. I was wondering is there such a thing as a kosher garden, kosher CSA etc? Beth the USDA and these big money companies don't care about our beliefs so they >not only don't label but want to sneak the DNA Frankenstein food in on us. >so I am not saying every one has to have the same ideals. its just a shame >that the USDA and friends not only don't care about our God but work >against many religions like Jews, Hindus,Moslems,vegetarians,and on and on >all those that have dietary laws. that's why I feel there is a place on >sanet for this kind of talk ..here . Lets put it on the table and see what >other have to say. . Now they that love the darkness and want to keep us >all in the dark may not like this talk. I want to know what I am eating and >drinking and breathing and they want to keep us in the dark. IMHO you >notice how in the beginning when they first started releasing DNA altered >stuff their was public talk most all against it but what did the USDA do. >They stopped the public input and just started releasing stuff not caring >about what the people thought and not only that hiding their wickedness. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 21:32:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28953 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07905 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:58:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from shelly.surfsouth.com (IDENT:root@shelly.surfsouth.com [205.139.60.100]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07849 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from surfsouth.com (02-ocil-029.dial.optilinkcomm.net [216.128.152.167]) by shelly.surfsouth.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14572; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:57:17 -0400 Message-ID: <37C5E221.1CFD2DCB@surfsouth.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:56:02 -0400 From: David Drexler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mike richardson CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Truth & Belief References: <37C59F75.64E3B76B@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2387 AMEN!!! AHMEN mike richardson wrote: > Excuse me for interupting, but wouldn't a better forum for religious > debate be better served by a newsgroup FOR religious debate? I would > think that a newsgroup/forum on sustainable agriculture and like > subjects is not the best place for an on-going debate such as the one > refererenced. There seems to be a lot of this religious debating on > sanet that we have to delete through to find posts on the subjects we > came to this forum for. > > Son of Richard > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 23:52:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01268 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26312 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:14:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26308 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18091; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:49:43 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Probiotics for the troops Cc: rjcooney@facstaff.wisc.edu, rons@dnai.com, masher9@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2388 Howdy, all-- Given the state of general crankiness that's been looming over our little virtual circle lately, like the summer fog over the Outer Sunset here in SF, I offer the following, in the service and support of sustainable agriculture. Humor promotes soil health. Make my day, someone--demand my peer-reviewed citations. :^> May these increase the EVMGSQ (Experimentally Verifiable Mean Good Spirits Quotient) of those who read them. Some of these are earthy, so those with snootier (dis-embodied, un-soiled) humor muses should hit the delete key now and go back to chuckling at the restrained witticisms of George Will or the cynical snipings of Maureen Dowd. '^D peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > The following definitions are from the Washington Post Style > Invitational (a weekly contest for readers). The idea of this > one is simply to redefine words from the dictionary - no added > or changed letters. > > Abdicate - v. To give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach. > > Carcinoma - n. A valley in California, notable for its heavy smog. > > Esplanade - v., to attempt an explanation while drunk. > > Willy-nilly - adj., impotent. > > Flabbergasted - adj., appalled over how much weight you have gained. > > Negligent - adj., describes a condition in which you >absent-mindedly answer the door in your nightie. > > Lymph - v. To walk with a lisp. > > Gargoyle - n., an olive-flavored mouthwash. > > Bustard - n., a very rude Metrobus driver. > > Coffee - n., a person who is coughed upon. > > Flatulence - n., the emergency vehicle that picks you up after you >are run over by a steamroller. > > Balderdash - n., a rapidly receding hairline. > > Semantics - n., pranks conducted by young men studying for the >priesthood, including such things as gluing the pages of the >priest's prayer book together just before vespers. > > Rectitude - n., the formal, dignified demeanor assumed by a >proctologist immediately before he examines you. > > Marionettes - n., residents of Washington D.C. who have been >jerked around by the mayor. > > Oyster - n., a person who sprinkles his conversation with Yiddish >expressions. > > Circumvent - n., the opening in the front of boxer shorts. > > and... > > The Washington Post's "Style Invitational" asked readers to > take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, > subtracting or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. > > Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. > > Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of >obtaining sex. > > Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high. . . > > Tatyr: A lecherous Mr. Potato Head. > > Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the >recipient who doesn't get it. > > Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. > > Hipatitis: Terminal coolness. > > Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. > > Burglesque: A poorly planned break-in. (See: Watergate) > > Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these >really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and >it's like a serious bummer. > > Glibido: All talk and no action. > > Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when >they come at you rapidly. > > Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a refund from the IRS, which >lasts until you realize it was your money to start with. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is a mystery, and I don't like mysteries. They give me a bellyache, and I've got a beauty right now. --Capt. James T. Kirk To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 23:54:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01289 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26598 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:14:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26487 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:14:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18772 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908261413.HAA05548@hevanet.com> References: <199908261413.HAA05548@hevanet.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:27:47 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2389 Howdy, all-- Lon wrote: >Comment: I can't prove it just from this article, but this material sounds >very much like it was bred by traditional methods, not Genetic Manipulation. In response to: >STORY LEAD: >ARS Releases New Soybean Disease Defenses > >----------- >ARS News Service >Agricultural Research Service, USDA >Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov >August 26, 1999 >----------- > >A new soybean variety and a germplasm line that fight off some major crop >diseases have been released by Agricultural Research Service scientists. ARS >is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. > >Research geneticist Jeffrey M. Tyler of ARS' Crop Genetics and Production >Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., developed the new variety, called >Bolivar, in cooperation with the Mississippi Agricultural and Forestry > Experiment Station, Mississippi State, Miss. Lon, you anticipated my question. Some of these ARS releases are fuzzy on that point. Is that a trend, in your experience, in this particular information source--to gloss over that? Do we have any evidence that it's a deliberate trend, or just sloppy reportage? My guess was that "germplasm line" meant a bred line, not a spliced one. peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 26 23:57:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01323 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28094 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:17:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27978 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00733 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA03934 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:16:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:16:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Irradiated food In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2390 On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Tom Smith wrote: > If you don't like the prospect of eating infected meat, which is the > principle reason given for supporting Irradiation, then DON'T EAT IT. The Its all about _local_ meat production on small-medium sized family farms for _local_ sales: carefully controlled quality production; no middleman (other than a coop of some sort, possibly), no storage, no long distance shipping. Certified organic, non certified organic transitional or conventional - customers live close enough to the producers to easily ascertain for themselves the quality of the farmer's product through direct contact or word of mouth. I see networks (food circles, fertile crescent concept) of producers and marketing coops serving overlapping regions providing quality meat from coast to coast. Its possible and should happen even if a a new, alternative, nationwide (I'd include Canada) network of regional marketing networks has to be built from the ground up. > human body was not designed to eat meat, even organic, free-range animal > meats. And the crap they are using to feed animals these days--including > sewage sludge--makes the problem much that worse, and would not be addressed > by irradiation. Besides that, cattle farming is one of the greatest sources > of global warming, both in terms of clear cut rainforests and the gases they > emit. The methane problem would cease to exist if all farms would recycle their manure using a carefully planned system of direct land application or composting for application on field or row crop. For factory farms with excessive quantities of manure, composting it to produce a product suitable for a variety of farming industries could become a reality with a little R&D. In coastal NC where there are so many hog farms, composted manure could be used to grow timber bamboo, hemp for paper and cloth, cotton, paulownia, ...... even kudzu (ducking and running). In fact I'd bet that crops like bamboo and river birch could utilize irrigation with highly dilute manure slurry as part of a composting system to convert raw manure to a safe and valuable fertilizer. Sluice the pig manure out over acres of kudzu planted on gentle slope. Harvest the kudzu by baling or grinding and pelletizing for animal feed or to add as biomass to more manure to be composted. Collect the excess runoff at bottom of slope behind swales or dams for further composting, later to be added as bioactivator to piles of fresh manure to be composted. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 09:08:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06292 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02323 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:17:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex2.theitgroup.com ([207.247.16.120]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02283 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:17:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theitgroup.com (torrn2.theitgroup.com [10.1.2.10]) by torrex2.theitgroup.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id RK3H5SJC; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:23:28 -0700 Received: from IT-Message_Server by theitgroup.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:16:09 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:18:10 -0700 From: RALPH COLE To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Organic feed grains Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2391 Does anyone know of a source for organic feed grains in the southeast or mid-atlantic region? I only know of one place in Wisconsin for this, and that's a bit far from Tennessee. The local feed mills don't have much motivation to supply organic feeds. Thanks, Ralph To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 09:42:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06935 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24453 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:59:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24381 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:59:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:58:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: REALLY time out: Religion and sanetiquette Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:58:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2392 Colleagues, I rarely have occasion to step in and play referee. Sadly, I do so now. I have received e-mails and phone calls asking me to intervene. First order of business is to maintain civility. Please do so. Secondly, let's keep on topic. This is a list for discussions of sustainable agriculture. Please focus on sustainable agriculture in your discussions. If you want to take the discussion off the list and continue it privately, that's standard practice if the content is not of interest to all subscribers. Victoria Mundy has offered to host a (temporary) list to continue this discussion. I'll paste her message below. That discussion was to begin August 26. See below for details. Finally, when replying to a message, please cut and paste relevant parts of the previous message(s) rather than including all of the text from all of the messages in the thread. I'll be glad to help anyone who is not sure how to do this. Thanks for your cooperation!. I get lots of very positive feedback about sanet! See below for the Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion. Andy _____________________________________________________ Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion Victoria Mundy (toria@pop.uky.edu) Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:47:42 -0400 Apologies for cross posting...... Some of us on SANET are going to hold an off-list discussion of what the scriptures of different religions have to say about agriculture. If you would like to join us, please send me an e-mail off list and I'll add your name to the mailings. Thanks to those who have already responded. (toria@pop.uky.edu) This conversation will be limited to August 26-Sept. 1, so that we don't get a whole new listserv! You do not have to be a religious scholar by any stretch of the imagination (I'm sure not) and you may simply listen although I hope everyone will contribute at least a little something. Any scripture from any religion is fair game. If your religion doesn't have scriptures, stories are welcome. We will simply be comparing what the different writings and stories say, NOT in any way discussing which is better or more true or more worthy. The more the merrier, everyone is welcome who is willing to follow the basic ground rules of courtesy, respect, and non-judgmental listening. Hoping many will join us and looking forward to it, Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 _________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 10:32:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08031 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:32:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18697 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:50:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18659 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:50:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu ([157.182.7.97]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id JAA05628 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990827092720.00696bd4@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlozier@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:27:20 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: John Lozier Subject: Farmer's markets and street music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2393 This is Farmer's Market week. Who knew? It was announced on August 20th, and celebrated August 21-28 (see following story) Speaking of Farmer's Markets, when I played my harp at the market in Santa Cruz a couple of months back, there were other musicians there too. I got to thinking that there is a certain similarity in the "direct marketing" approach of farmers and street musicians. Plus, there is a cultural linkage between music and food, the idea of celebration. Musicians and others: can you tell about how music is made a part of the sustag movement in your area, at the farmers market or wherever? Jeff Ishee wants to write a book about farm markets. If you'll tell your stories, I might assemble them into a chapter for him about farm market street music. As noted before, I'm planning to be in Guelph October 20-23, for IFSA conference. How about an ad-hoc convocation of agri-musicians?? John Lozier harper for harmony www.harpingforharmony.org >> Release No. 0345.99 >> >> Andrew Hatch (202) 720-8998 >> andrew.hatch@usda.gov >> Billy A. Cox (202) 720-8998 >> billy.cox@usda.gov >> >>GLICKMAN ANNOUNCES NATIONAL FARMERS MARKET WEEK >> >> WASHINGTON, August 20, 1999--Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman today >>proclaimed August 21-28 as National Farmers Market Week. >> >> "Farmers markets and roadside stands have always been a way for >>Americans to stay in touch with our heritage and our roots," said Glickman. >>"Today, farmers markets are also critical to the success of American >>agriculture by allowing small farmers to sell their fresh produce directly >>to >>consumers. At USDA, we work hard to increase awareness among farmers and >>consumers about the convenience and value of farmers markets." >> >> USDA works closely with state departments of agriculture encouraging >>the >>increased development of farmers markets to assist the small grower. >>Particular emphasis is placed on minority farmers and providing access to >>fresh fruits and vegetables to the urban, under-served consumer. One way >>USDA >>is accomplishing these goals is through the USDA-operated farmers market >>which >>is held weekly at department headquarters. >> >> USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service works with states to encourage >>market growth, while the Food and Nutrition Service helps needy families >>gain >>access to healthy produce. Food stamp recipients can use their benefits at >>most farmers markets, as can many participants in the Women, Infants, and >>Children program. >> >> The number of farmers markets in the United States has grown >>dramatically in recent years. USDA's 1998 farmers market directory lists >>2,746 farmers markets, up from 2,410 in 1996 and 1,755 in 1994, when USDA >>began collecting the data. Sales at farmers markets will total $1 billion >>this year, with most of the money going directly to small family farmers. >> >> Information on farmers markets, including the National Directory of >>Farmers Markets, can be obtained on the web at >>www.ams.usda.gov/farmersmarkets >>or by calling 800-384-8704. >> >> # > >Linda Elswick >Washington Representative >Community Food Security Coalition > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 10:43:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08224 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22440 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:59:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aipc.com (gateway.aipc.com [207.15.8.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22369 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:59:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by gateway.aipc.com id <23081>; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:01:28 -0500 Message-Id: <99Aug27.090128cdt.23081@gateway.aipc.com> From: "Updike, Kim" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: Organic feed grains Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:57:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2394 Ralph: Do you have the facility to store some grain in bulk? Your best bet may be to contact your local extension center and see if there is a farmer in your area who is interested in Organic production. You may be able to contract with him personally. Don't stop with the local office either - ask them for a contact at the state level. Someone should be able to put you in contact with an organic grower. I know there are some in SE Missouri. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 11:24:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09037 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12118 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:38:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12102 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:38:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0FH4003GYOCYUH@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0FH4009TKOEPZ7@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:32:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 852567DA.004F91BD ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:29:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:22:04 -0400 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1252 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <852567DA.004F6AEB.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2395 Subject: CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE, GAINESVILLE,FL., 09-09-99 LAST CHANCE FOR GREAT ROOM RATES AT THE UNIVERSITY CENTRE HOTEL, GAINESVILLE, FL., (352-371-3333) IS AUGUST 25, 1999 Included in this email is the SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT of the most recent program for the CLIMATE CHANGE, PEST CONTROL AND AGRICULTURE CONFERENCE that will be held on September 9, 1999 at the UNIVERSITY CENTRE HOTEL, GAINESVILLE, FL. (This hotel has transportation to and from the Gainesville airport. Just call 352-371-3333 for pickup once you arrive at the airport.) 7:00-8:00 REGISTRATION 8:15-8:35 WELCOME John Lombardi, President, University of Florida*, Gainesville, FL Andrew Manale, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C.* Agriculture and Climate Change: Beyond Adaptation John Gordon, Chair, Food and Resource Economics Department, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 8:35-9:25 THE STATE OF CLIMATE CHANGE: POLICY AND RESEARCH David Zilberman, University of California, Berkeley CA Climate Change: Economic Impacts and Possibilities for Agriculture. Ujjayant Chakravorty, Emory University, HI The Economics and Politics of Climate Change: International Issues 9:25-10:40 CLIMATE CHANGE AND FLORIDA Clyde Kiker, (Moderator) University of Florida, Gainesville, FL Climate Change: An Overview Jim O'Brien, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL Climate Variability and Agriculture over the United States Hartwell Allen, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL and Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture CO2, Climate Change and Southeast Agricultural Crops Janaki Alavalapati, School of Forest Resources and Conservation, Gainesville, FL Forestry and the Economics of Carbon Sequestration in Florida 10:40-10:50 BREAK 10:50-12:15 CLIMATE CHANGE AND PEST CONTROL Andrew Paul Guiterrez, University of California, Berkeley, CA The Disruption of Natural and Biological Control by Climate Change Dave Lincoln, University of South Carolina, Columbia, SC Consequences of Global Change for Insect Pests Paul Jepson, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR Impacts of Climate Change on Pesticide Use and Pesticide Impacts 12:15-2:00 LUNCH SPEAKER Carol Browner* Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C. 2:00-3:15 CLIMATE CHANGE AND PEST CONTROL Matthew Ayers, Dartmouth College, Title Unconfirmed to Date James Bunce, USDA/ARS,Washington, D.C. Climate Change and Weed Control 3:15-3:30 BREAK 3:30-5:00 CLIMATE CHANGE, AGRICULTURE AND CARBON SEGUESTRATION Rattan Lal, Ohio State University, Columbus, OH Soil Management and Carbon Sequestration: A Science Perspective Andy Schmitz and Charles Moss, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL and Chris Dumas, University of North Carolina, Wilmington, NC The Economics of Carbon Sequestration Bruce McCarl, Texas A&M, College Station, TX The Economics of Climate Change in Agriculture: A Synthesis. 5:00-5;30 DISCUSSION 5:30-6:30 RECEPTION *Unconfirmed FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE CONFERENCE REFER TO OUR WEB-SITE THAT WILL BE UPDATED ON 08-24-99 http://kierkegaard.ifas.ufl.edu/climatechange.html REGISTRATION: Students - $30 (price change) All Others - $125 Please email this registration form to schmitz@fred.ifas.ufl.edu or fax it to 352-392-3646 for processing, and send your payment made out to CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE to : H. Carole Schmitz University of Florida POB 110240 GAINESVILLE, FL 32611-0240 (YOU MAY PREFER TO PAY AT THE REGISTRATION DESK UPON YOUR ARRIVAL AT THE CONFERENCE SITE FROM 7:00-8:00 ON 09-09-99, BUT PLEASE SEND US THIS REGISTRATION FORM PRIOR TO THE CONFERENCE SO WE CAN PREPARE YOUR NAME TAG AND RECEIPT) QUESTIONS? 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 11:58:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09814 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28243 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:14:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28227 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: MariavHM@aol.com Received: from MariavHM@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7QCLa22756 (4389); Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7a0df748.24f8050f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:13:19 EDT Subject: Save the Date--December 2-3, 1999 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, duane@libertynet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2396 Regional Summit: The Future of Our Food and Farms December 2-3, 1999 Philadelphia, PA Concerned about food, farming and hunger prevention in the Delaware Valley? Plan to attend "The Future of Our Food and Farms" regional summit on December 2-3, 1999, at the Radisson Hotel Philadelphia International Airport. "The Future of Our Food and Farms" is a regional summit to promote agriculture, learn about trends in food distribution and find ways to reduce hunger. The conference is designed to educate and encourage networking among those involved in the production, distribution and consumption of food in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Who should attend: Farmers, food industry professionals, government officials, advocates for hunger prevention and consumers. For more information, contact The Farmers' Market Trust, 215-568-0830, ext. 13 or 800-417-9499. e-mail: foodfarm@libertynet.org. Fax: 215-568-0882 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 12:46:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01584 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19982 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:59:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from staff1.cso.uiuc.edu (root@staff1.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.59]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19978 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bl101-84.nres.uiuc.edu (bl101-84.nres.uiuc.edu [128.174.101.84]) by staff1.cso.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA06727 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:58:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990827105411.00cae310@staff.uiuc.edu> X-Sender: aslan@staff.uiuc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:54:11 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Dan Anderson Subject: faith and truth continued Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2397 Fellow Seekers: I can imagine there are many on this list who are going to groan at the= sight of yet another post dealing with the religion question, but I can't= help myself. I'm finding it one of the more interesting threads we've seen= in a while. I think it's very appropriate to explore the potential= spiritual aspects of science and agriculture. I was especially impressed= with Dennis' observation that science in America has been elevated to dogma= (a religion in itself) and that is the reason we are the only country= debating evolution vs creation. I would modify that to say that science has= been elevated to dogma throughout the whole world, but America is the only= country where Christians are still strong enough or free enough to argue= the point.=20 What I don't understand is the assumption that faith and the acceptance of= God and absolute truth have to result in the end of critical thinking. I= imagine the whole wing of the Jesuit priesthood, men of faith who somehow= manage to think their way through numerous PhDs, scoff at this notion. Many= of our most famous scientists from long ago made huge advances in thinking= despite the fact that they were devout Christians. The consensus of the= scientists who have contributed to this thread seems to be that those who= believe in absolute truth have skipped ahead to the end of the book (the= wrong book) to read the last page and then in laziness put the book down. I= want to suggest that the acceptance of the existence of God and absolute= truth is a starting point, a presupposition, just like belief in no God and= no absolute truth is a presupposition. I would also argue that the blind= acceptance of the latter presupposition is just as non-scientific as the= blind acceptance of the former. Neither can be proven or disprove. Both= have to be accepted by faith as true. Secular scientists don't believe in= God because they don't want to believe in God, not because the "hypothesis"= of God has been rejected scientifically.=20 As a Christian, I can spend my whole life using the tools of science to= investigate how the world works, think just as critically about= agriculture/biological processes and get just as far down the road as a= secular scientist/thinker. Where Christian presuppositions do "inhibit" my= thinking is in the moral/ethical/social realm. I believe there is right and= wrong. I believe God gave us rules for living and relating to one another.= I accept these rules by faith, but believe they are also logical and work= when people understand and adhere to them. These rules provide boundaries= to behavior, not boundaries to thinking. I would suggest that such moral= rules are inherent to a sustainable agriculture. Sustainable agriculture is= agriculture with social and environmental boundaries that will have to= based on some moral imperative. Science alone is ill equipped to provide= such imperatives. It gets too bogged down in the variation and the= pseudo-moral obsession with not offending ANYone.=20 Modern ag has been dominated by scientific application without moral= boundaries. Ag development in the western world has been guided by the sole= ethic of Increased Production (money). Now we're trying to justify the= expansion of that to developing countries with a "Feed the World" cause.= Believe me, money is still at the heart of it. We need additional rules for= behavior if we're going to do this without destroying the earth and= ourselves in the process. For rules to work they have to come from a higher= authority. They must be imposed from outside ourselves (and that includes= our science). Thus the need for God.=20 Dan Anderson Agroecology/Sustainable Agriculture Program University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Dept. of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences W-503 Turner Hall 1102 S. Goodwin Urbana, IL 61801 MC-047 217/333-1588 217/333-7370 fax aslan@uiuc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 14:37:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05415 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10335 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:42:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10295 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:42:35 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:41:39 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:41:38 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.78] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0c311c3c ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:41:28 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990827123300.008f68c0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:33:00 -0500 To: Subject: Native USA Version of BSE? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2398 Sometime back, the local PBS station had to fill some time from some commerical length programs being aired. Instead of running ads for underwriters or upcoming programs, they ran a short film from Arkansas about the Bald Eagle die offs occuring there. Bald Eagles are dying in several west central lakes. No virus or bacterial cause was found in the otherwise healthy birds. Only the brains were abnormal (white spots on the slide, I think) and the eagles before dying were very uncoordinated and staggered around. Coots, also exhibit this same disease, so the program, suggested the Bald Eagles might be picking up the "disease" from eating them. I thought, "the dying eagles stagger just like the cows in Britian, they are no doubt eating dead diseased animals with similar symptons and no known causative agent can be found : BINGO, there just might be a prion disease for birds too " and moved on until NOVA reaired "The Brain Eater" show which I had missed first time around. In the NOVA program, they were looking at US cattle for a native version of BSE to little avail. I don't know anything much about this area as I am an engineer by training but the similarities are obvious even to the novice. Since the Arkansa program ended with the mystery unsolved, I ask those of you on the list who are experienced in this field, could a prion type disease explain the die offs of Bald Eagles in Arkansas? Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Aug 27 13:09:07 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02116 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03265 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:27:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03236 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:26:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7LOEa07546 (4189) for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49901834.24f81592@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:23:46 EDT Subject: Consumers and business awareness are driving the nails in the coffin of GE To: Organic4um@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2399 A communication from the ORGANIC 4UM: Facilitated by Eric Kindberg, certified organic farmer Email: erorganic@aol.com Website: http://members.aol.com/organic4um Hello, The following are the most recent and unpredictable business community responses generated by consumer awareness. Written contributions and comments are sought. If you desire your email address to be removed from our circulation list, please inform us. To be added to this email circulation request to organic4um@aol.com NOTICE In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107 this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving it for research and educational purposes. The Organic 4UM distributes this material free of charge even though it takes considerable time and money to produce it. Eric Kindberg, Editor CORN GROWERS CALL ON FARMERS TO CONSIDER ALTERNATIVES TO PLANTING GMOS IF QUESTIONS ARE NOT ANSWERED August 25, 1999 WASHINGTON -- To ease the dilemma over the uncertainly caused by genetically modified organisms (GMO), the American Corn Growers Association (ACGA) is proposing that farmers should look at the option of planting non-GMO crops if certain questions are not answered. This is not an issue over the health or scientific effects of GMOs. It's an issue over production agriculture's inability to answer the many questions that surround this controversial issue. "GMOs have become the albatross around the neck of farmers on issues of trade, labeling, testing, certification, segregation, market availability and agribusiness concentration. Until all these issues are answered, it is best for production agriculture to examine alternatives to planting GMOs," said Gary Goldberg, Chief Executive Officer of the ACGA. There are many uncertainties facing farmers. Historically low prices brought about by overproduction have made the future unclear. Adding to this uncertainty is unfair to producers. Therefore, the ACGA is calling on the following questions to be addressed: -- How do we export GMO grains to unwilling foreign customers and will the USDA encourage the sale of GMO free crops? -- Who will be responsible for maintaining separate channels for GMO crops and assuring the integrity of non-GMO crops? Will farmers who plant traditional (non-GMO) varieties be burdened with testing and other costs associated with segregation or identity preservation? -- If testing is needed, who will do the testing, can the testing be done in the field, and how much will the tests costs? -- How far do GMO and GMO free grains have to be planted from each other to prevent cross-pollination? -- Since GMO fields can cross-pollinate with non-GMO fields, will GMO growers be required to plant buffer zones? How large should the buffer zones be? -- Will biotech companies be liable for contamination of non-GMO crops caused by cross-pollination? -- Will there be the need for liability waivers between neighbors to prevent legal ramifications in the event of one neighbor not knowing what another neighbor is planting? -- How does a grain elevator plan to segregate GMO from GMO free and will there be a price differential? -- What kind of certification procedure will be needed for the elevator and will each elevator have its own certification form? -- Should USDA come forward with a universal certification process that would be accepted by all grain elevators? -- How does the monopolistic practice of a handful of companies controlling the entire GMO process effect the future of U.S. food production? -- How would labeling of GMO products fall within the GATT framework? -- Are the supposedly higher yields of GMOs marketable in a climate that already has overproduction and oversupply? "Farmers are caught in the middle of this dispute between grain exporters, foreign buyers, seed companies, local grain elevators and different governments. The ACGA feels it is best for producers to consider alternatives for this upcoming planting season until these many questions are answered," concluded Goldberg. The ACGA calls on seed companies to make sure that an adequate supply of GMO free seed is available to farmers for the 2000 planting season and that no undue pressure to plant GMOs is placed upon a producer by his or her seed company. /Web site: http://www.acga.org / Subject: GMO's and Europe's banking community >From the progressive review's website -> GUARDIAN (LONDON): Europe's biggest bank has advisedthe world's largest investors to sell their shares in leading companies involved in the development of genetically modified organisms because consumers do not want to buy their products. In a report sent to several thousand of the world's large institutional investors, including British pension funds, Deutsche Bank says that "growing negative sentiment" is creating problems for the leading companies, including Monsanto and Novartis. NOTE the response to this newspaper article from a professor on spread of ge pollen. (at bottom) posted by laurel Organic, high-tech growers square off Chicago Sun-Times August 15, 1999 HUDSON, WIS. - Organic food maker Terra Prima Inc. got a sour taste of modern food technology late last year. After a test by an importer in the Netherlands found a trace of genetically engineered corn in Terra tortilla chips, company officials destroyed 87,000 bags of the product because they couldn't sell it as organic. The farmer who sold Terra the corn said he was unaware of the problem, explaining wind probably blew corn pollen from a neighboring farm onto his field. The explanation is plausible, though most corn pollen doesn't travel more than 60 feet, said Bob Nielsen, an agronomist with Purdue University. The possibility of migrating pollen troubles not just organic producers but also farmers who don't want to be penalized for growing genetically modified food. LETTER by professor Philip Regal: "I had warned about this at conferences since at least 1989, as I recall. I warned at scientific workshops and in publications that the industry and its allies in government had better review seed purity standards because these had been based on old-fashioned scientific assumptions and on narrow practical goals that would not apply in the case of genetically engineered organisms as they would soon be used. [See 1990 publication in my bibliography through my URL below: "Gene flow and adaptability in transgenic agricultural organisms." Note also that I analysed scientific knowledge of pollen travel distances extensively in a review paper in 1982: "Pollination by wind and animals: Ecology of geographic patterns. Ann. Rev. Ecol. Syst. 13:492-524, before I had ever imagined that I would get involved in biotech matters.] It is true that, on average, wind-carried pollen does not travel very far. But this simply means that pollen settles out and the concentration dilutes rapidly in still air. Biologically effective travel distances in actuality vary enormously depending on the size of the source (e.g. number of acres of corn fields) and direction and speed of winds. Pollen from large fields will thus be able to pollinate over great distances even in relatively still air because there is so much pollen to begin with to settle out and dilute. If the wind is blowing in the right direction, the distances then can be even more greatly increased. One can think of the lone pine tree out on a rock in an ocean or large lake miles from other pine trees, it will often get pollinated because there are so many pine trees as a source and because of favorable winds. Somehow I doubt that the agronomist knows much about this subject, if he was quoted correctly, because agronomists have generally gone with conventional wisdom on pollination rather than on up-to-date scientific knowledge. For most of their needs the old ideas have been good enough." Philip J. Regal Professor EEB Department 1987 Upper Buford Circle University of Minnesota St. Paul, Minnesota 55108 Home webpage: http://biosci.umn.edu/~pregal/phil.html Direct to biosafety webpage: http://biosci.umn.edu/~pregal/biosafety.html (612) 343-5590 (Home&answering machine) (612) 624-6777 (Dept. FAX machine) e-mail-> regal001@maroon.tc.umn.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------- To get off the CONS-SPST-BIOTECH-FORUM list, send any message to: CONS-SPST-BIOTECH-FORUM-signoff-request@LISTS.SIERRACLUB.ORG To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 14:44:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05556 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02333 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:29:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.ppi-far.org (mail.ppi-far.org [198.78.10.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02118 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:27:01 -0400 Received: by mail.ppi-far.org from ibm770 (206.185.4.169::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:26:52 -0400 From: "Harold Reetz" To: Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:26:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <199908271600.MAA20217@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2400 Dan: This kind of ranting really destroys the credibility of this forum. I have tried to be tolerant of most of what I read here, but attacks such as this one on USDA and industry and scientists in general go too far. I can assume this is personal opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but in my career in Extension and in industry, I have felt an obligation to avoid public comments of personal opinion like the ones posted in this message. I think it destroys your credibility, but more important undermines the credibility of Extension as an unbiased source of information. (Since this is an Extension forum.) That credibility was established by many years of hard working people who took that credibility seriously as a trust from the public to be protected. Maybe the electronic medium makes it less important to watch what you "say", but I hope not. I do not think you will find either USDA or industry to be full of non-caring, non-religious people who intentionally poison and injure the public. Most of us work very hard to do just the opposite. I am sorry you felt a need to make such comments on this forum and undermine what is generally a useful exchange of ideas. I hope I am not the only one who is offended by this. Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research 111 East Washington Street Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 Phone: 217-762-2074 FAX: 217-762-8655 e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu] Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 11:01 AM To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 sanet-mg-digest Friday, August 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1253 In this issue: GM and religion Re: Truth & Belief Re: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases Probiotics for the troops Re: Irradiated food Organic feed grains REALLY time out: Religion and sanetiquette Farmer's markets and street music RE: Organic feed grains Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1252 Save the Date--December 2-3, 1999 faith and truth continued See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:57:54 -0400 From: "Dan Hook" Subject: GM and religion >Snipped quite a bit of below message. I do not think the GM food producers can ignore persons who diet forbids certain foods. This group most likely will not be swayed. Its only in the past week in various posts that the issue of "pure" food due to religious reasons got me thinking. I had already thought and felt sorry for the person who say is allergic to nuts and reads every label etc. Then bites into some totally nut unrelated food and has a allergic reaction. Anyone who is strict about there diet either allergy or religion has probably already for years been a very careful consumer. I think this is a group to be reckoned with. Consumers who know what the want to spend THEIR money on. Someone said it before "isn't the consumer always right?" These consumers will go elsewhere, organics, CSAs, co-ops etc in search of their food and I can't imagine they are a tiny group. I just found this very interesting. I was wondering is there such a thing as a kosher garden, kosher CSA etc? Beth the USDA and these big money companies don't care about our beliefs so they >not only don't label but want to sneak the DNA Frankenstein food in on us. >so I am not saying every one has to have the same ideals. its just a shame >that the USDA and friends not only don't care about our God but work >against many religions like Jews, Hindus,Moslems,vegetarians,and on and on >all those that have dietary laws. that's why I feel there is a place on >sanet for this kind of talk ..here . Lets put it on the table and see what >other have to say. . Now they that love the darkness and want to keep us >all in the dark may not like this talk. I want to know what I am eating and >drinking and breathing and they want to keep us in the dark. IMHO you >notice how in the beginning when they first started releasing DNA altered >stuff their was public talk most all against it but what did the USDA do. >They stopped the public input and just started releasing stuff not caring >about what the people thought and not only that hiding their wickedness. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:56:02 -0400 From: David Drexler Subject: Re: Truth & Belief AMEN!!! AHMEN mike richardson wrote: > Excuse me for interupting, but wouldn't a better forum for religious > debate be better served by a newsgroup FOR religious debate? I would > think that a newsgroup/forum on sustainable agriculture and like > subjects is not the best place for an on-going debate such as the one > refererenced. There seems to be a lot of this religious debating on > sanet that we have to delete through to find posts on the subjects we > came to this forum for. > > Son of Richard > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:27:47 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Re: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases Howdy, all-- Lon wrote: >Comment: I can't prove it just from this article, but this material sounds >very much like it was bred by traditional methods, not Genetic Manipulation. In response to: >STORY LEAD: >ARS Releases New Soybean Disease Defenses > >----------- >ARS News Service >Agricultural Research Service, USDA >Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov >August 26, 1999 >----------- > >A new soybean variety and a germplasm line that fight off some major crop >diseases have been released by Agricultural Research Service scientists. ARS >is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. > >Research geneticist Jeffrey M. Tyler of ARS' Crop Genetics and Production >Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., developed the new variety, called >Bolivar, in cooperation with the Mississippi Agricultural and Forestry > Experiment Station, Mississippi State, Miss. Lon, you anticipated my question. Some of these ARS releases are fuzzy on that point. Is that a trend, in your experience, in this particular information source--to gloss over that? Do we have any evidence that it's a deliberate trend, or just sloppy reportage? My guess was that "germplasm line" meant a bred line, not a spliced one. peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:49:43 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Probiotics for the troops Howdy, all-- Given the state of general crankiness that's been looming over our little virtual circle lately, like the summer fog over the Outer Sunset here in SF, I offer the following, in the service and support of sustainable agriculture. Humor promotes soil health. Make my day, someone--demand my peer-reviewed citations. :^> May these increase the EVMGSQ (Experimentally Verifiable Mean Good Spirits Quotient) of those who read them. Some of these are earthy, so those with snootier (dis-embodied, un-soiled) humor muses should hit the delete key now and go back to chuckling at the restrained witticisms of George Will or the cynical snipings of Maureen Dowd. '^D peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > The following definitions are from the Washington Post Style > Invitational (a weekly contest for readers). The idea of this > one is simply to redefine words from the dictionary - no added > or changed letters. > > Abdicate - v. To give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach. > > Carcinoma - n. A valley in California, notable for its heavy smog. > > Esplanade - v., to attempt an explanation while drunk. > > Willy-nilly - adj., impotent. > > Flabbergasted - adj., appalled over how much weight you have gained. > > Negligent - adj., describes a condition in which you >absent-mindedly answer the door in your nightie. > > Lymph - v. To walk with a lisp. > > Gargoyle - n., an olive-flavored mouthwash. > > Bustard - n., a very rude Metrobus driver. > > Coffee - n., a person who is coughed upon. > > Flatulence - n., the emergency vehicle that picks you up after you >are run over by a steamroller. > > Balderdash - n., a rapidly receding hairline. > > Semantics - n., pranks conducted by young men studying for the >priesthood, including such things as gluing the pages of the >priest's prayer book together just before vespers. > > Rectitude - n., the formal, dignified demeanor assumed by a >proctologist immediately before he examines you. > > Marionettes - n., residents of Washington D.C. who have been >jerked around by the mayor. > > Oyster - n., a person who sprinkles his conversation with Yiddish >expressions. > > Circumvent - n., the opening in the front of boxer shorts. > > and... > > The Washington Post's "Style Invitational" asked readers to > take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, > subtracting or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. > > Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. > > Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of >obtaining sex. > > Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high. . . > > Tatyr: A lecherous Mr. Potato Head. > > Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the >recipient who doesn't get it. > > Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. > > Hipatitis: Terminal coolness. > > Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. > > Burglesque: A poorly planned break-in. (See: Watergate) > > Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these >really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and >it's like a serious bummer. > > Glibido: All talk and no action. > > Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when >they come at you rapidly. > > Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a refund from the IRS, which >lasts until you realize it was your money to start with. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is a mystery, and I don't like mysteries. They give me a bellyache, and I've got a beauty right now. --Capt. James T. Kirk To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:16:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Subject: Re: Irradiated food On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Tom Smith wrote: > If you don't like the prospect of eating infected meat, which is the > principle reason given for supporting Irradiation, then DON'T EAT IT. The Its all about _local_ meat production on small-medium sized family farms for _local_ sales: carefully controlled quality production; no middleman (other than a coop of some sort, possibly), no storage, no long distance shipping. Certified organic, non certified organic transitional or conventional - customers live close enough to the producers to easily ascertain for themselves the quality of the farmer's product through direct contact or word of mouth. I see networks (food circles, fertile crescent concept) of producers and marketing coops serving overlapping regions providing quality meat from coast to coast. Its possible and should happen even if a a new, alternative, nationwide (I'd include Canada) network of regional marketing networks has to be built from the ground up. > human body was not designed to eat meat, even organic, free-range animal > meats. And the crap they are using to feed animals these days--including > sewage sludge--makes the problem much that worse, and would not be addressed > by irradiation. Besides that, cattle farming is one of the greatest sources > of global warming, both in terms of clear cut rainforests and the gases they > emit. The methane problem would cease to exist if all farms would recycle their manure using a carefully planned system of direct land application or composting for application on field or row crop. For factory farms with excessive quantities of manure, composting it to produce a product suitable for a variety of farming industries could become a reality with a little R&D. In coastal NC where there are so many hog farms, composted manure could be used to grow timber bamboo, hemp for paper and cloth, cotton, paulownia, ...... even kudzu (ducking and running). In fact I'd bet that crops like bamboo and river birch could utilize irrigation with highly dilute manure slurry as part of a composting system to convert raw manure to a safe and valuable fertilizer. Sluice the pig manure out over acres of kudzu planted on gentle slope. Harvest the kudzu by baling or grinding and pelletizing for animal feed or to add as biomass to more manure to be composted. Collect the excess runoff at bottom of slope behind swales or dams for further composting, later to be added as bioactivator to piles of fresh manure to be composted. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:18:10 -0700 From: RALPH COLE Subject: Organic feed grains Does anyone know of a source for organic feed grains in the southeast or mid-atlantic region? I only know of one place in Wisconsin for this, and that's a bit far from Tennessee. The local feed mills don't have much motivation to supply organic feeds. Thanks, Ralph To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:58:03 -0400 From: Andy Clark Subject: REALLY time out: Religion and sanetiquette Colleagues, I rarely have occasion to step in and play referee. Sadly, I do so now. I have received e-mails and phone calls asking me to intervene. First order of business is to maintain civility. Please do so. Secondly, let's keep on topic. This is a list for discussions of sustainable agriculture. Please focus on sustainable agriculture in your discussions. If you want to take the discussion off the list and continue it privately, that's standard practice if the content is not of interest to all subscribers. Victoria Mundy has offered to host a (temporary) list to continue this discussion. I'll paste her message below. That discussion was to begin August 26. See below for details. Finally, when replying to a message, please cut and paste relevant parts of the previous message(s) rather than including all of the text from all of the messages in the thread. I'll be glad to help anyone who is not sure how to do this. Thanks for your cooperation!. I get lots of very positive feedback about sanet! See below for the Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion. Andy _____________________________________________________ Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion Victoria Mundy (toria@pop.uky.edu) Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:47:42 -0400 Apologies for cross posting...... Some of us on SANET are going to hold an off-list discussion of what the scriptures of different religions have to say about agriculture. If you would like to join us, please send me an e-mail off list and I'll add your name to the mailings. Thanks to those who have already responded. (toria@pop.uky.edu) This conversation will be limited to August 26-Sept. 1, so that we don't get a whole new listserv! You do not have to be a religious scholar by any stretch of the imagination (I'm sure not) and you may simply listen although I hope everyone will contribute at least a little something. Any scripture from any religion is fair game. If your religion doesn't have scriptures, stories are welcome. We will simply be comparing what the different writings and stories say, NOT in any way discussing which is better or more true or more worthy. The more the merrier, everyone is welcome who is willing to follow the basic ground rules of courtesy, respect, and non-judgmental listening. Hoping many will join us and looking forward to it, Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 _________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:27:20 -0400 From: John Lozier Subject: Farmer's markets and street music This is Farmer's Market week. Who knew? It was announced on August 20th, and celebrated August 21-28 (see following story) Speaking of Farmer's Markets, when I played my harp at the market in Santa Cruz a couple of months back, there were other musicians there too. I got to thinking that there is a certain similarity in the "direct marketing" approach of farmers and street musicians. Plus, there is a cultural linkage between music and food, the idea of celebration. Musicians and others: can you tell about how music is made a part of the sustag movement in your area, at the farmers market or wherever? Jeff Ishee wants to write a book about farm markets. If you'll tell your stories, I might assemble them into a chapter for him about farm market street music. As noted before, I'm planning to be in Guelph October 20-23, for IFSA conference. How about an ad-hoc convocation of agri-musicians?? John Lozier harper for harmony www.harpingforharmony.org >> Release No. 0345.99 >> >> Andrew Hatch (202) 720-8998 >> andrew.hatch@usda.gov >> Billy A. Cox (202) 720-8998 >> billy.cox@usda.gov >> >>GLICKMAN ANNOUNCES NATIONAL FARMERS MARKET WEEK >> >> WASHINGTON, August 20, 1999--Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman today >>proclaimed August 21-28 as National Farmers Market Week. >> >> "Farmers markets and roadside stands have always been a way for >>Americans to stay in touch with our heritage and our roots," said Glickman. >>"Today, farmers markets are also critical to the success of American >>agriculture by allowing small farmers to sell their fresh produce directly >>to >>consumers. At USDA, we work hard to increase awareness among farmers and >>consumers about the convenience and value of farmers markets." >> >> USDA works closely with state departments of agriculture encouraging >>the >>increased development of farmers markets to assist the small grower. >>Particular emphasis is placed on minority farmers and providing access to >>fresh fruits and vegetables to the urban, under-served consumer. One way >>USDA >>is accomplishing these goals is through the USDA-operated farmers market >>which >>is held weekly at department headquarters. >> >> USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service works with states to encourage >>market growth, while the Food and Nutrition Service helps needy families >>gain >>access to healthy produce. Food stamp recipients can use their benefits at >>most farmers markets, as can many participants in the Women, Infants, and >>Children program. >> >> The number of farmers markets in the United States has grown >>dramatically in recent years. USDA's 1998 farmers market directory lists >>2,746 farmers markets, up from 2,410 in 1996 and 1,755 in 1994, when USDA >>began collecting the data. Sales at farmers markets will total $1 billion >>this year, with most of the money going directly to small family farmers. >> >> Information on farmers markets, including the National Directory of >>Farmers Markets, can be obtained on the web at >>www.ams.usda.gov/farmersmarkets >>or by calling 800-384-8704. >> >> # > >Linda Elswick >Washington Representative >Community Food Security Coalition > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:57:50 -0500 From: "Updike, Kim" Subject: RE: Organic feed grains Ralph: Do you have the facility to store some grain in bulk? Your best bet may be to contact your local extension center and see if there is a farmer in your area who is interested in Organic production. You may be able to contract with him personally. Don't stop with the local office either - ask them for a contact at the state level. Someone should be able to put you in contact with an organic grower. I know there are some in SE Missouri. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:22:04 -0400 From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1252 Subject: CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE, GAINESVILLE,FL., 09-09-99 LAST CHANCE FOR GREAT ROOM RATES AT THE UNIVERSITY CENTRE HOTEL, GAINESVILLE, FL., (352-371-3333) IS AUGUST 25, 1999 Included in this email is the SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT of the most recent program for the CLIMATE CHANGE, PEST CONTROL AND AGRICULTURE CONFERENCE that will be held on September 9, 1999 at the UNIVERSITY CENTRE HOTEL, GAINESVILLE, FL. (This hotel has transportation to and from the Gainesville airport. Just call 352-371-3333 for pickup once you arrive at the airport.) 7:00-8:00 REGISTRATION 8:15-8:35 WELCOME John Lombardi, President, University of Florida*, Gainesville, FL Andrew Manale, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C.* Agriculture and Climate Change: Beyond Adaptation John Gordon, Chair, Food and Resource Economics Department, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 8:35-9:25 THE STATE OF CLIMATE CHANGE: POLICY AND RESEARCH David Zilberman, University of California, Berkeley CA Climate Change: Economic Impacts and Possibilities for Agriculture. Ujjayant Chakravorty, Emory University, HI The Economics and Politics of Climate Change: International Issues 9:25-10:40 CLIMATE CHANGE AND FLORIDA Clyde Kiker, (Moderator) University of Florida, Gainesville, FL Climate Change: An Overview Jim O'Brien, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL Climate Variability and Agriculture over the United States Hartwell Allen, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL and Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture CO2, Climate Change and Southeast Agricultural Crops Janaki Alavalapati, School of Forest Resources and Conservation, Gainesville, FL Forestry and the Economics of Carbon Sequestration in Florida 10:40-10:50 BREAK 10:50-12:15 CLIMATE CHANGE AND PEST CONTROL Andrew Paul Guiterrez, University of California, Berkeley, CA The Disruption of Natural and Biological Control by Climate Change Dave Lincoln, University of South Carolina, Columbia, SC Consequences of Global Change for Insect Pests Paul Jepson, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR Impacts of Climate Change on Pesticide Use and Pesticide Impacts 12:15-2:00 LUNCH SPEAKER Carol Browner* Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C. 2:00-3:15 CLIMATE CHANGE AND PEST CONTROL Matthew Ayers, Dartmouth College, Title Unconfirmed to Date James Bunce, USDA/ARS,Washington, D.C. Climate Change and Weed Control 3:15-3:30 BREAK 3:30-5:00 CLIMATE CHANGE, AGRICULTURE AND CARBON SEGUESTRATION Rattan Lal, Ohio State University, Columbus, OH Soil Management and Carbon Sequestration: A Science Perspective Andy Schmitz and Charles Moss, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL and Chris Dumas, University of North Carolina, Wilmington, NC The Economics of Carbon Sequestration Bruce McCarl, Texas A&M, College Station, TX The Economics of Climate Change in Agriculture: A Synthesis. 5:00-5;30 DISCUSSION 5:30-6:30 RECEPTION *Unconfirmed FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE CONFERENCE REFER TO OUR WEB-SITE THAT WILL BE UPDATED ON 08-24-99 http://kierkegaard.ifas.ufl.edu/climatechange.html REGISTRATION: Students - $30 (price change) All Others - $125 Please email this registration form to schmitz@fred.ifas.ufl.edu or fax it to 352-392-3646 for processing, and send your payment made out to CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE to : H. Carole Schmitz University of Florida POB 110240 GAINESVILLE, FL 32611-0240 (YOU MAY PREFER TO PAY AT THE REGISTRATION DESK UPON YOUR ARRIVAL AT THE CONFERENCE SITE FROM 7:00-8:00 ON 09-09-99, BUT PLEASE SEND US THIS REGISTRATION FORM PRIOR TO THE CONFERENCE SO WE CAN PREPARE YOUR NAME TAG AND RECEIPT) QUESTIONS? EMAIL: schmitz@fred.ifas.ufl.edu REGISTRATION FORM NAME ____________________________________________________________ AFFILATION _______________________________________________________ ADDRESS __________________________________________________________ ZIP CODE ___________________________________ PHONE ____________________________________________________________ FAX _______________________________________________________________ EMAIL _____________________________________________________________ RECEIPT # ______________________ CHECK # ________________ AMT REC ________________ INVOICE # ______________________ INVOICE # ______________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:13:19 EDT From: MariavHM@aol.com Subject: Save the Date--December 2-3, 1999 Regional Summit: The Future of Our Food and Farms December 2-3, 1999 Philadelphia, PA Concerned about food, farming and hunger prevention in the Delaware Valley? Plan to attend "The Future of Our Food and Farms" regional summit on December 2-3, 1999, at the Radisson Hotel Philadelphia International Airport. "The Future of Our Food and Farms" is a regional summit to promote agriculture, learn about trends in food distribution and find ways to reduce hunger. The conference is designed to educate and encourage networking among those involved in the production, distribution and consumption of food in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Who should attend: Farmers, food industry professionals, government officials, advocates for hunger prevention and consumers. For more information, contact The Farmers' Market Trust, 215-568-0830, ext. 13 or 800-417-9499. e-mail: foodfarm@libertynet.org. Fax: 215-568-0882 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:54:11 -0500 From: Dan Anderson Subject: faith and truth continued Fellow Seekers: I can imagine there are many on this list who are going to groan at the= sight of yet another post dealing with the religion question, but I can't= help myself. I'm finding it one of the more interesting threads we've seen= in a while. I think it's very appropriate to explore the potential= spiritual aspects of science and agriculture. I was especially impressed= with Dennis' observation that science in America has been elevated to dogma= (a religion in itself) and that is the reason we are the only country= debating evolution vs creation. I would modify that to say that science has= been elevated to dogma throughout the whole world, but America is the only= country where Christians are still strong enough or free enough to argue= the point.=20 What I don't understand is the assumption that faith and the acceptance of= God and absolute truth have to result in the end of critical thinking. I= imagine the whole wing of the Jesuit priesthood, men of faith who somehow= manage to think their way through numerous PhDs, scoff at this notion. Many= of our most famous scientists from long ago made huge advances in thinking= despite the fact that they were devout Christians. The consensus of the= scientists who have contributed to this thread seems to be that those who= believe in absolute truth have skipped ahead to the end of the book (the= wrong book) to read the last page and then in laziness put the book down. I= want to suggest that the acceptance of the existence of God and absolute= truth is a starting point, a presupposition, just like belief in no God and= no absolute truth is a presupposition. I would also argue that the blind= acceptance of the latter presupposition is just as non-scientific as the= blind acceptance of the former. Neither can be proven or disprove. Both= have to be accepted by faith as true. Secular scientists don't believe in= God because they don't want to believe in God, not because the "hypothesis"= of God has been rejected scientifically.=20 As a Christian, I can spend my whole life using the tools of science to= investigate how the world works, think just as critically about= agriculture/biological processes and get just as far down the road as a= secular scientist/thinker. Where Christian presuppositions do "inhibit" my= thinking is in the moral/ethical/social realm. I believe there is right and= wrong. I believe God gave us rules for living and relating to one another.= I accept these rules by faith, but believe they are also logical and work= when people understand and adhere to them. These rules provide boundaries= to behavior, not boundaries to thinking. I would suggest that such moral= rules are inherent to a sustainable agriculture. Sustainable agriculture is= agriculture with social and environmental boundaries that will have to= based on some moral imperative. Science alone is ill equipped to provide= such imperatives. It gets too bogged down in the variation and the= pseudo-moral obsession with not offending ANYone.=20 Modern ag has been dominated by scientific application without moral= boundaries. Ag development in the western world has been guided by the sole= ethic of Increased Production (money). Now we're trying to justify the= expansion of that to developing countries with a "Feed the World" cause.= Believe me, money is still at the heart of it. We need additional rules for= behavior if we're going to do this without destroying the earth and= ourselves in the process. For rules to work they have to come from a higher= authority. They must be imposed from outside ourselves (and that includes= our science). Thus the need for God.=20 Dan Anderson Agroecology/Sustainable Agriculture Program University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Dept. of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences W-503 Turner Hall 1102 S. Goodwin Urbana, IL 61801 MC-047 217/333-1588 217/333-7370 fax aslan@uiuc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ------------------------------ End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 ******************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 15:23:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06571 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28616 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:27:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28542 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:30:38 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'ssfarm@lynks.com'" Subject: Trying to comply with NRCS Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:30:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2401 Forwarding: Please send replies to ssfarm@lynks.com Friends at SANet: A dairy farmer in Mississippi called me last night because he needs help working with NRCS. He has a lagoon that doesn't meet their specifications, and a neighbor has turned in several complaints. Although this farmer wants to save his farm and do the right thing, he has reason to believe the local NRCS people won't work with him. They have told him that they can fine him hugh daily fines that would effectively put him out of business. Do you know who this farmer can call for help? Please email any suggestions directly to my email below. Thanks. Keith Richards Southern SAWG ssfarm@lynks.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 15:31:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06831 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02190 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:33:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02090 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:36:12 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'AbbySeaman'" Subject: Farming system research coordinator position Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:36:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2402 Forwarding: Contact for this position is Abby Seaman IPM Program Office NYSAES Geneva, NY 14456 Sanet; We're seeking someone with interest and experience in farming systems research to coordinate a Northeast SARE funded research project. Contact information is at the bottom of the announcement. TITLE: Farming System Research Coordinator LOCATION: Department of Entomology Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 DATE AVAILABLE: March 1, 2000 DURATION: One year, with renewal for an additional two years, contingent upon mutual consent, satisfactory performance, and available funding. DESCRIPTION: The objective of the project is to investigate relationships among selected components of conventional and organic farming ecosystems. Components including soil health indicators, and disease, weed and arthropod diversity and abundance in the two systems will be studied. Project outcomes will help growers, researchers and educators better understand the mechanisms working together in a whole system approach to pest management. The successful candidate will be an integral part of a multidisciplinary team and have primary responsibility for designing and executing field sampling, laboratory analysis, and data management needed to accomplish the project goals in collaboration with other team members. Research will focus on diversified vegetable operations throughout New York, targeting potatoes and winter squash for in-depth study. QUALIFICATIONS: B.S. in an agriculture related discipline, experience in farm systems research and analysis, and practical field research experience. Demonstrated ability to work cooperatively within a team approach with both colleagues and farmers. Demonstrated ability to collect, manage, and analyze data, and prepare data for publication. Written and oral presentation skills for farmer and technical audiences; and interpersonal skills to effectively train and manage temporary employees and communicate with cooperating growers. Desirable to have experience directly related to entomology, soil science or plant nutrition. SALARY: $25,000 per year plus excellent benefits TO APPLY: Send letter of application describing qualifications and interest in position, CV, and names of three references to: Abby Seaman IPM Program Office NYSAES Geneva, NY 14456 DEADLINE FOR APPLICATION: Oct. 1, 1999 CORNELL UNIVERSITY IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY/AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER. Abby Seaman IPM Program Office Area Extension Educator NYSAES, Geneva, NY 14456 WNY Vegetable IPM Phone: (315) 787-2422 Cornell Cooperative Extension FAX: (315) 787-2360 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 15:42:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07116 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08383 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:47:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08282 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (dynamic25.pm09.sf3d.best.com [209.24.239.25]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id LAA04447; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: "RALPH COLE" , Subject: RE: Organic feed grains Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:45:15 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01bef0bc$4d39bce0$f9ea18d1@business> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2403 I'd recommend contacting CROPP / Organic Valley, in LaFarge, WI. info@organicvalley.com, tel: (608) 625-2602. - Michael ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of RALPH COLE Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 5:18 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Organic feed grains Does anyone know of a source for organic feed grains in the southeast or mid-atlantic region? I only know of one place in Wisconsin for this, and that's a bit far from Tennessee. The local feed mills don't have much motivation to supply organic feeds. Thanks, Ralph To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 16:09:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07705 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01624 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:31:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01563 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.21] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:26:58 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:35:23 -0400 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990827192658674.AAA84@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.21]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2404 ---------- >From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu (sanet-mg-digest) >To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 >Date: Fri, Aug 27, 1999, 12:00 PM > > Does anyone know of a source for organic feed grains in the southeast > or mid-atlantic region? Neil Martin at Southside Poultry in Blackstone, Virginia, 1-804-292-1744 sells OCIA certified organic poultry feed. He is too far away to help you directly, but may know someone in your region who has organic grains. And, check the OCIA chapter in Tennessee, they will know. If you don't have their number I think Rich Molini can get it for you.... Rich, are you there???? Andy Lee Good Earth Farm School To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 16:40:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08502 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA15463 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:01:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mr.usu.edu (mr.usu.edu [129.123.1.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15371 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ext.usu.edu (ext.usu.edu [129.123.20.12]) by mr.usu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B28B91D2E1 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from EDU-USU-EXT/SpoolDir by ext.usu.edu (Mercury 1.44); 27 Aug 99 13:56:56 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by EDU-USU-EXT (Mercury 1.44); 27 Aug 99 13:56:39 -0700 Received: from laptrex (129.123.13.197) by ext.usu.edu (Mercury 1.44); 27 Aug 99 13:56:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990827135943.007a4dc0@ext.usu.edu> X-Sender: philr@ext.usu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:59:43 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Dr. Phil Rasmussen" Subject: TIME OUT!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2405 Colleagues: I appreciate Andy for stepping in to return our attention to the many problems at hand that face those of us striving for a sustainable agriculture and those of us striving to sustain agriculture in general. With farms being swallowed-up by subdivisions and paved-over by development, we need to be discussing the cures for the problems and not attacking each other. (see below....) I also agree with Dr. Reetz (message also attached, below) that there are many, including Dr. Reetz, in both Extension and Industry who are working toward a truly sustainable agriculture. The USDA-CSREES SARE program, that sponsors and pays for this particular newsgroup is evidence of a continuing USDA commitment to sustainability. That SAN (Sustainable Agriculture Network) that, initially, recommended the establishment of this newsgroup, was comprised of members of industry (CENEX), extension, research, USDA agencies, and various non-profit groups who, in spite of individual differences, resolved to, unitedly, endeavor to enhance the sustainability of U.S. agriculture. Let's keep that spirit alive. If we have considerable concerns about a "post", let's handle it via DIRECT email. It seems to me that we need to get back to the exchange of ideas regarding the principles and practices of sustainability. Thanks to Andy Clark and Harold Reetz for bringing us back to the task at hand....and suggesting that we work TOGETHER on the problems. Phil Rasmussen >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:58:03 -0400 >From: Andy Clark >Subject: REALLY time out: Religion and sanetiquette >Colleagues, > >I rarely have occasion to step in and play referee. Sadly, I do so now. I >have received e-mails and phone calls asking me to intervene. > >First order of business is to maintain civility. Please do so. > >Secondly, let's keep on topic. This is a list for discussions of >sustainable agriculture. Please focus on sustainable agriculture in your >discussions. If you want to take the discussion off the list and continue >it privately, that's standard practice if the content is not of interest to >all subscribers. > SECOND ATTACHED MESSAGE... > > >Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 > >This kind of ranting really destroys the credibility of this forum. I have >tried to be tolerant of most of what I read here, but attacks such as this >one on USDA and industry and scientists in general go too far. I can assume >this is personal opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but in my >career in Extension and in industry, I have felt an obligation to avoid >public comments of personal opinion like the ones posted in this message. I >think it destroys your credibility, but more important undermines the >credibility of Extension as an unbiased source of information. (Since this >is an Extension forum.) That credibility was established by many years of >hard working people who took that credibility seriously as a trust from the >public to be protected. Maybe the electronic medium makes it less important >to watch what you "say", but I hope not. I do not think you will find >either USDA or industry to be full of non-caring, non-religious people who >intentionally poison and injure the public. Most of us work very hard to do >just the opposite. I am sorry you felt a need to make such comments on this >forum and undermine what is generally a useful exchange of ideas. I hope I >am not the only one who is offended by this. > >Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. Dr. V. Philip Rasmussen, Professor & Head Internet EMAIL: soilcomp@cc.usu.edu SARE Project Internet WWW-page: http://wsare.usu.edu ************************************************************* Department Head Plants, Soils, & Biometeorology Department UMC-4820 --- UTAH STATE UNIVERSITY Logan, UT 84322-4820 FAX:435-797-3376 Phone: 435-797-3394 (This has a back-up voice-mail) Cellular: 435-770-0630 (This has a back-up voice-mail) PHYSICAL ADDRESS FOR FED-EX: 4865 Old Main Hill Room 322, Agr. Sci. Bldg., Ut.St.Univ, Logan, UT 84322-4820 ************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 17:22:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09618 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02251 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:35:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02170 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:38:16 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Organic and food safety Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:38:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2406 It would be interesting to track some of these sources down. This may be a revival of the story that was going around a few month ago RE: CDC's numbers on organic and foodborne illness. This article comes from FSnet, a daily news feed out of Guelph. See http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/riskcomm/news-today/today.html or http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/riskcomm/news-today/ if a few days have passed. Another source of information about Food Safety--including irradiation--is the Foodsafe listserv: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodborne/foodborn.htm Andy > From FSnet 8/26/99 > > ORGANIC FOOD CREATES HIGHER RISK FOR FOOD POISONING > Aug. 25 /99 > US Newswire > Marc Morano > WASHINGTON -- An investigation by the nationally syndicated television > newsmagazine program American Investigator revealed in June 1998 that, > according to the Centers for Disease Control's (CDC) own numbers, organic > and natural food products represent a higher rate of food borne illness, > commonly referred to as food poisoning. Correspondent Marc Morano explains > that "by creating food free of synthetic chemicals and preservatives, > organic and natural foods have removed barriers between humans and harmful > disease-causing bacteria." > Virlie Walker, an FDA official, is now on record warning that, "Most > especially at risk are your organic products because they could be > fertilized with manure." Also on record is chief of the CDC's Foodborne > illness division Robert V. Tauxe, addressing pathogens that thrive in > manure, "Organic means a food was grown in animal manure." > Dr. Lester Crawford of the Georgetown Center for Food and Nutrition Policy > told American Investigator, "Organic foods as they're raised with manure > as fertilizers and sometimes without chlorinated water, provide a great > opportunity for bacteria to grow." > "Just on the basis of the label, I would probably tend to shy away from > the organic," said Dr. Dean Cliver, a food scientist from University of > Southern California-Davis. > Even though modern chemical farming occasionally uses manure, they also > use salt, preservatives and chemical washes, which kill harmful bacteria. > Organic proponents told American Investigator that manure is safe from > bacteria if it's properly composted, however the newsmagazine found no > standard or scientific gauge to determine what is "properly" composted > manure. Dr. Cliver said, "We can tell you how a hamburger is very well > done but we can't tell you when manure is very well done." > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 17:22:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09620 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29234 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:28:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA29173 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 1315 ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:25:38 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8025; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:25:39 -0400 Message-Id: <27AUG99.17741671.0014.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:25:38 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: Subject: Dairy Position: McGill U., Montreal X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2407 Please pass this along to anyone who might be interested. For those who no little of Quebec, it is the major dairy region in Canada. The person filling this position has a real opportunity to make links with the industry and influence the adoption of sustainable practices in the province. The Macdonald Campus has a dairy research unit on site with about 90 cows. At the same time, there is a position open in the area of forage management (Agroecology) in the Dept. of Plant Science. Although there is no formal link between these positions, they do offer good potential for collaborative research. Thanks .... john henning ========================================================== Position Announcement, McGill University, Montreal, Canada The Department of Animal Science at McGill University invites applications for a tenure-track position of Assistant Professor of Dairy Nutrition and Management. The successful applicant will be expected to supervise graduate students and to teach a dairy production course at the undergraduate level and upper level courses in nutrition and lactation physiology. The individual is expected to develop a strong and independent research program supported by outside research funds in dairy nutrition and/or physiology, as related to dairy production. The required qualifications include a Ph.D. in dairy science or animal science with specialization in ruminant nutrition and a good knowledge and understanding of ruminant metabolism; strong potential for or a record of developing an independent research program in dairy nutrition and/or physiology; ability for effective teaching at the graduate and undergraduate levels. Communication and interaction with the dairy industry in Quebec will be expected. Salary is commensurate with the candidate's qualifications and research record. Submit letter of application, curriculum vitae, statement of teaching and research interests, and names of three referees willing to furnish letters of reference to: Dr. Xin Zhao, Chair Department of Animal Science McGill University, Macdonald Campus 21,111 Lakeshore Road Ste. Anne de Bellevue, QC H9X 3V9 Fax: (514) 398-7964 http://www.agrenv.mcgill.ca Applications will be considered before October 31, 1999. In accordance with Canadian immigration requirements, priority will be given to Canadian citizens and permanent residents of Canada. However, all qualified applicants are encouraged to apply. McGill University is committed to equity in employment. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 17:29:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09786 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03454 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:36:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03340 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA20703; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:34:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-231.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.231) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020633; Fri Aug 27 15:34:11 1999 Message-ID: <001901bef0cb$5afe5fc0$e7fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Harold Reetz" , Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:32:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2408 Harold if you had read the first line of the post you would have notice that only the first paragraph was mine. I wrote in my first line "Snipped quite a bit of message below. I did not rant never do (not in print anyway). I just went on to point out that the fellow you term ranting brought out a good point. In America consumers are supposed to be right. If some inner calling dictates how you spend you food dollar, then GM companies had best watch out, purely from a marketing standpoint. Read posts carefully. Beth (not Dan and not the original poster) -----Original Message----- From: Harold Reetz To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, August 27, 1999 2:30 PM Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 >Dan: > >This kind of ranting really destroys the credibility of this forum. I have >tried to be tolerant of most of what I read here, but attacks such as this >one on USDA and industry and scientists in general go too far. I can assume >this is personal opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but in my >career in Extension and in industry, I have felt an obligation to avoid >public comments of personal opinion like the ones posted in this message. I >think it destroys your credibility, but more important undermines the >credibility of Extension as an unbiased source of information. (Since this >is an Extension forum.) That credibility was established by many years of >hard working people who took that credibility seriously as a trust from the >public to be protected. Maybe the electronic medium makes it less important >to watch what you "say", but I hope not. I do not think you will find >either USDA or industry to be full of non-caring, non-religious people who >intentionally poison and injure the public. Most of us work very hard to do >just the opposite. I am sorry you felt a need to make such comments on this >forum and undermine what is generally a useful exchange of ideas. I hope I >am not the only one who is offended by this. > > >Dr. Harold F. Reetz, Jr. >Midwest Director, Potash & Phosphate Institute >Vice President, Foundation for Agronomic Research >111 East Washington Street >Monticello, Illinois 61856-1640 > >Phone: 217-762-2074 >FAX: 217-762-8655 >e-mail: hreetz@ppi-far.org >PPI Home Page: http://www.ppi-far.org >InfoAg99: http://www.ppi-far.org/infoag99 >Site-Specific Project: http://www.farmresearch.com >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >[mailto:owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu] >Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 11:01 AM >To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 > > >sanet-mg-digest Friday, August 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1253 > > > >In this issue: > > GM and religion > Re: Truth & Belief > Re: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases > Probiotics for the troops > Re: Irradiated food > Organic feed grains > REALLY time out: Religion and sanetiquette > Farmer's markets and street music > RE: Organic feed grains > Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1252 > Save the Date--December 2-3, 1999 > faith and truth continued > >See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:57:54 -0400 >From: "Dan Hook" >Subject: GM and religion > >>Snipped quite a bit of below message. I do not think the GM food >producers can ignore persons who diet forbids certain foods. This group >most likely will not be swayed. Its only in the past week in various posts >that the issue of "pure" food due to religious reasons got me thinking. I >had already thought and felt sorry for the person who say is allergic to >nuts and reads every label etc. Then bites into some totally nut unrelated >food and has a allergic reaction. Anyone who is strict about there diet >either allergy or religion has probably already for years been a very >careful consumer. I think this is a group to be reckoned with. Consumers >who know what the want to spend THEIR money on. Someone said it before >"isn't the consumer always right?" These consumers will go elsewhere, >organics, CSAs, co-ops etc in search of their food and I can't imagine they >are a tiny group. I just found this very interesting. I was wondering is >there such a thing as a kosher garden, kosher CSA etc? Beth > >the USDA and these big money companies don't care about our beliefs so they >>not only don't label but want to sneak the DNA Frankenstein food in on us. >>so I am not saying every one has to have the same ideals. its just a shame >>that the USDA and friends not only don't care about our God but work >>against many religions like Jews, Hindus,Moslems,vegetarians,and on and on >>all those that have dietary laws. that's why I feel there is a place on >>sanet for this kind of talk ..here . Lets put it on the table and see what >>other have to say. . Now they that love the darkness and want to keep us >>all in the dark may not like this talk. I want to know what I am eating >and >>drinking and breathing and they want to keep us in the dark. IMHO you >>notice how in the beginning when they first started releasing DNA altered >>stuff their was public talk most all against it but what did the USDA do. >>They stopped the public input and just started releasing stuff not caring >>about what the people thought and not only that hiding their wickedness. > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:56:02 -0400 >From: David Drexler >Subject: Re: Truth & Belief > >AMEN!!! AHMEN > >mike richardson wrote: > >> Excuse me for interupting, but wouldn't a better forum for religious >> debate be better served by a newsgroup FOR religious debate? I would >> think that a newsgroup/forum on sustainable agriculture and like >> subjects is not the best place for an on-going debate such as the one >> refererenced. There seems to be a lot of this religious debating on >> sanet that we have to delete through to find posts on the subjects we >> came to this forum for. >> >> Son of Richard >> >> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >> "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >> "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >> All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >> http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:27:47 -0700 >From: Misha >Subject: Re: FW: New Defenses for Soybean Diseases > >Howdy, all-- > >Lon wrote: > >>Comment: I can't prove it just from this article, but this material sounds >>very much like it was bred by traditional methods, not Genetic >Manipulation. > >In response to: > >>STORY LEAD: >>ARS Releases New Soybean Disease Defenses >> >>----------- >>ARS News Service >>Agricultural Research Service, USDA >>Tara Weaver-Missick, (301) 504-1619, tweaver@asrr.arsusda.gov >>August 26, 1999 >>----------- >> >>A new soybean variety and a germplasm line that fight off some major crop >>diseases have been released by Agricultural Research Service scientists. >ARS >>is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief research agency. >> >>Research geneticist Jeffrey M. Tyler of ARS' Crop Genetics and Production >>Research Unit in Stoneville, Miss., developed the new variety, called >>Bolivar, in cooperation with the Mississippi Agricultural and Forestry >> Experiment Station, Mississippi State, Miss. > > >Lon, you anticipated my question. Some of these ARS releases are >fuzzy on that point. Is that a trend, in your experience, in this >particular information source--to gloss over that? Do we have any >evidence that it's a deliberate trend, or just sloppy reportage? > >My guess was that "germplasm line" meant a bred line, not a spliced one. > > >peace >misha > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:49:43 -0700 >From: Misha >Subject: Probiotics for the troops > >Howdy, all-- > >Given the state of general crankiness that's been looming over our >little virtual circle lately, like the summer fog over the Outer >Sunset here in SF, I offer the following, in the service and support >of sustainable agriculture. Humor promotes soil health. > >Make my day, someone--demand my peer-reviewed citations. :^> > >May these increase the EVMGSQ (Experimentally Verifiable Mean Good >Spirits Quotient) of those who read them. > >Some of these are earthy, so those with snootier (dis-embodied, >un-soiled) humor muses should hit the delete key now and go back to >chuckling at the restrained witticisms of George Will or the cynical >snipings of Maureen Dowd. > >'^D > > >peace >misha > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> The following definitions are from the Washington Post Style >> Invitational (a weekly contest for readers). The idea of this >> one is simply to redefine words from the dictionary - no added >> or changed letters. >> >> Abdicate - v. To give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach. >> >> Carcinoma - n. A valley in California, notable for its heavy smog. >> >> Esplanade - v., to attempt an explanation while drunk. >> >> Willy-nilly - adj., impotent. >> >> Flabbergasted - adj., appalled over how much weight you have gained. >> >> Negligent - adj., describes a condition in which you >>absent-mindedly answer the door in your nightie. >> >> Lymph - v. To walk with a lisp. >> >> Gargoyle - n., an olive-flavored mouthwash. >> >> Bustard - n., a very rude Metrobus driver. >> >> Coffee - n., a person who is coughed upon. >> >> Flatulence - n., the emergency vehicle that picks you up after you >>are run over by a steamroller. >> >> Balderdash - n., a rapidly receding hairline. >> >> Semantics - n., pranks conducted by young men studying for the >>priesthood, including such things as gluing the pages of the >>priest's prayer book together just before vespers. >> >> Rectitude - n., the formal, dignified demeanor assumed by a >>proctologist immediately before he examines you. >> >> Marionettes - n., residents of Washington D.C. who have been >>jerked around by the mayor. >> >> Oyster - n., a person who sprinkles his conversation with Yiddish >>expressions. >> >> Circumvent - n., the opening in the front of boxer shorts. >> >> and... >> >> The Washington Post's "Style Invitational" asked readers to >> take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, >> subtracting or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. >> >> Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. >> >> Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of >>obtaining sex. >> >> Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high. . . >> >> Tatyr: A lecherous Mr. Potato Head. >> >> Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the >>recipient who doesn't get it. >> >> Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. >> >> Hipatitis: Terminal coolness. >> >> Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. >> >> Burglesque: A poorly planned break-in. (See: Watergate) >> >> Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these >>really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and >>it's like a serious bummer. >> >> Glibido: All talk and no action. >> >> Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when >>they come at you rapidly. >> >> Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a refund from the IRS, which >>lasts until you realize it was your money to start with. > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Michele Gale-Sinex >Communications manager >Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison >http://www.wisc.edu >UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 >Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) >Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >This is a mystery, and I don't like mysteries. They give me a bellyache, >and I've got a beauty right now. --Capt. James T. Kirk > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:16:15 -0400 (EDT) >From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." >Subject: Re: Irradiated food > >On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Tom Smith wrote: > >> If you don't like the prospect of eating infected meat, which is the >> principle reason given for supporting Irradiation, then DON'T EAT IT. The > >Its all about _local_ meat production on small-medium sized family farms >for _local_ sales: carefully controlled quality production; no middleman >(other than a coop of some sort, possibly), no storage, no long distance >shipping. Certified organic, non certified organic transitional or >conventional - customers live close enough to the producers to easily >ascertain for themselves the quality of the farmer's product through >direct contact or word of mouth. I see networks (food circles, fertile >crescent concept) of producers and marketing coops serving overlapping >regions providing quality meat from coast to coast. Its possible and >should happen even if a a new, alternative, nationwide (I'd include >Canada) network of regional marketing networks has to be built from the >ground up. > >> human body was not designed to eat meat, even organic, free-range animal >> meats. And the crap they are using to feed animals these days--including >> sewage sludge--makes the problem much that worse, and would not be >addressed >> by irradiation. Besides that, cattle farming is one of the greatest >sources >> of global warming, both in terms of clear cut rainforests and the gases >they >> emit. > >The methane problem would cease to exist if all farms would recycle their >manure using a carefully planned system of direct land application or >composting for application on field or row crop. For factory farms with >excessive quantities of manure, composting it to produce a product >suitable for a variety of farming industries could become a reality with a >little R&D. In coastal NC where there are so many hog farms, composted >manure could be used to grow timber bamboo, hemp for paper and cloth, >cotton, paulownia, ...... even kudzu (ducking and running). In fact I'd >bet that crops like bamboo and river birch could utilize irrigation with >highly dilute manure slurry as part of a composting system to convert >raw manure to a safe and valuable fertilizer. Sluice the pig manure out >over acres of kudzu planted on gentle slope. Harvest the kudzu by baling >or grinding and pelletizing for animal feed or to add as biomass to more >manure to be composted. Collect the excess runoff at bottom of slope >behind swales or dams for further composting, later to be added as >bioactivator to piles of fresh manure to be composted. > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:18:10 -0700 >From: RALPH COLE >Subject: Organic feed grains > >Does anyone know of a source for organic feed grains in the southeast >or mid-atlantic region? I only know of one place in Wisconsin for this, and >that's a bit far from Tennessee. The local feed mills don't have much >motivation to supply organic feeds. > >Thanks, >Ralph > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:58:03 -0400 >From: Andy Clark >Subject: REALLY time out: Religion and sanetiquette > >Colleagues, > >I rarely have occasion to step in and play referee. Sadly, I do so now. I >have received e-mails and phone calls asking me to intervene. > >First order of business is to maintain civility. Please do so. > >Secondly, let's keep on topic. This is a list for discussions of >sustainable agriculture. Please focus on sustainable agriculture in your >discussions. If you want to take the discussion off the list and continue >it privately, that's standard practice if the content is not of interest to >all subscribers. > >Victoria Mundy has offered to host a (temporary) list to continue this >discussion. I'll paste her message below. That discussion was to begin >August 26. See below for details. > >Finally, when replying to a message, please cut and paste relevant parts of >the previous message(s) rather than including all of the text from all of >the messages in the thread. I'll be glad to help anyone who is not sure how >to do this. > >Thanks for your cooperation!. I get lots of very positive feedback about >sanet! > >See below for the Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion. > >Andy >_____________________________________________________ >Agriculture in Scriptures Discussion > >Victoria Mundy (toria@pop.uky.edu) >Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:47:42 -0400 > >Apologies for cross posting...... > >Some of us on SANET are going to hold an off-list discussion of what the >scriptures of different religions have to say about agriculture. If you >would like to join us, please send me an e-mail off list and I'll add your >name to the mailings. Thanks to those who have already responded. >(toria@pop.uky.edu) > >This conversation will be limited to August 26-Sept. 1, so that we don't >get a whole new listserv! > >You do not have to be a religious scholar by any stretch of the imagination >(I'm sure not) and you may simply listen although I hope everyone will >contribute at least a little something. Any scripture from any religion is >fair game. If your religion doesn't have scriptures, stories are welcome. > >We will simply be comparing what the different writings and stories say, >NOT in any way discussing which is better or more true or more worthy. The >more the merrier, everyone is welcome who is willing to follow the basic >ground rules of courtesy, respect, and non-judgmental listening. > >Hoping many will join us and looking forward to it, > >Victoria Mundy >Dept. of Agronomy >Lexington, KY 40546-0091 >606/257-2103 >_________________________________________________________ > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:27:20 -0400 >From: John Lozier >Subject: Farmer's markets and street music > >This is Farmer's Market week. Who knew? It was announced on August 20th, >and celebrated August 21-28 (see following story) > >Speaking of Farmer's Markets, when I played my harp at the market in Santa >Cruz a couple of months back, there were other musicians there too. I got >to thinking that there is a certain similarity in the "direct marketing" >approach of farmers and street musicians. Plus, there is a cultural >linkage between music and food, the idea of celebration. > >Musicians and others: can you tell about how music is made a part of the >sustag movement in your area, at the farmers market or wherever? > >Jeff Ishee wants to write a book about farm markets. If you'll tell your >stories, I might assemble them into a chapter for him about farm market >street music. > >As noted before, I'm planning to be in Guelph October 20-23, for IFSA >conference. How about an ad-hoc convocation of agri-musicians?? > >John Lozier >harper for harmony >www.harpingforharmony.org > >>> Release No. 0345.99 >>> >>> Andrew Hatch (202) 720-8998 >>> andrew.hatch@usda.gov >>> Billy A. Cox (202) 720-8998 >>> billy.cox@usda.gov >>> >>>GLICKMAN ANNOUNCES NATIONAL FARMERS MARKET WEEK >>> >>> WASHINGTON, August 20, 1999--Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman today >>>proclaimed August 21-28 as National Farmers Market Week. >>> >>> "Farmers markets and roadside stands have always been a way for >>>Americans to stay in touch with our heritage and our roots," said >Glickman. >>>"Today, farmers markets are also critical to the success of American >>>agriculture by allowing small farmers to sell their fresh produce directly >>>to >>>consumers. At USDA, we work hard to increase awareness among farmers and >>>consumers about the convenience and value of farmers markets." >>> >>> USDA works closely with state departments of agriculture encouraging >>>the >>>increased development of farmers markets to assist the small grower. >>>Particular emphasis is placed on minority farmers and providing access to >>>fresh fruits and vegetables to the urban, under-served consumer. One way >>>USDA >>>is accomplishing these goals is through the USDA-operated farmers market >>>which >>>is held weekly at department headquarters. >>> >>> USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service works with states to encourage >>>market growth, while the Food and Nutrition Service helps needy families >>>gain >>>access to healthy produce. Food stamp recipients can use their benefits >at >>>most farmers markets, as can many participants in the Women, Infants, and >>>Children program. >>> >>> The number of farmers markets in the United States has grown >>>dramatically in recent years. USDA's 1998 farmers market directory lists >>>2,746 farmers markets, up from 2,410 in 1996 and 1,755 in 1994, when USDA >>>began collecting the data. Sales at farmers markets will total $1 billion >>>this year, with most of the money going directly to small family farmers. >>> >>> Information on farmers markets, including the National Directory of >>>Farmers Markets, can be obtained on the web at >>>www.ams.usda.gov/farmersmarkets >>>or by calling 800-384-8704. >>> >>> # >> >>Linda Elswick >>Washington Representative >>Community Food Security Coalition >> >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:57:50 -0500 >From: "Updike, Kim" >Subject: RE: Organic feed grains > >Ralph: > >Do you have the facility to store some grain in bulk? Your best bet may be >to contact your local extension center and see if there is a farmer in your >area who is interested in Organic production. You may be able to contract >with him personally. Don't stop with the local office either - ask them >for a contact at the state level. Someone should be able to put you in >contact with an organic grower. I know there are some in SE Missouri. > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:22:04 -0400 >From: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov >Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1252 > >Subject: CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE, GAINESVILLE,FL., 09-09-99 > > > > >LAST CHANCE FOR GREAT ROOM RATES AT THE UNIVERSITY CENTRE HOTEL, >GAINESVILLE, FL., (352-371-3333) IS AUGUST 25, 1999 > >Included in this email is the SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT of the most recent >program for the CLIMATE CHANGE, PEST CONTROL AND AGRICULTURE >CONFERENCE that will be held on September 9, 1999 at the UNIVERSITY >CENTRE HOTEL, GAINESVILLE, FL. (This hotel has transportation to and >from the Gainesville airport. Just call 352-371-3333 for pickup once >you arrive at the airport.) > >7:00-8:00 REGISTRATION > >8:15-8:35 >WELCOME > >John Lombardi, President, University of Florida*, Gainesville, FL > >Andrew Manale, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C.* >Agriculture and Climate Change: Beyond Adaptation > >John Gordon, Chair, Food and Resource Economics Department, >University of Florida, Gainesville, FL > > >8:35-9:25 >THE STATE OF CLIMATE CHANGE: POLICY AND RESEARCH > >David Zilberman, University of California, Berkeley CA >Climate Change: Economic Impacts and Possibilities for Agriculture. > >Ujjayant Chakravorty, Emory University, HI >The Economics and Politics of Climate Change: International Issues > > >9:25-10:40 >CLIMATE CHANGE AND FLORIDA > >Clyde Kiker, (Moderator) University of Florida, Gainesville, FL >Climate Change: An Overview > >Jim O'Brien, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL >Climate Variability and Agriculture over the United States > >Hartwell Allen, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL and >Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture >CO2, Climate Change and Southeast Agricultural Crops > >Janaki Alavalapati, School of Forest Resources and Conservation, >Gainesville, FL >Forestry and the Economics of Carbon Sequestration in Florida > >10:40-10:50 >BREAK > >10:50-12:15 >CLIMATE CHANGE AND PEST CONTROL > >Andrew Paul Guiterrez, University of California, Berkeley, CA >The Disruption of Natural and Biological Control by Climate Change > >Dave Lincoln, University of South Carolina, Columbia, SC >Consequences of Global Change for Insect Pests > >Paul Jepson, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR >Impacts of Climate Change on Pesticide Use and Pesticide Impacts > >12:15-2:00 >LUNCH SPEAKER > >Carol Browner* >Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, D.C. > >2:00-3:15 >CLIMATE CHANGE AND PEST CONTROL > >Matthew Ayers, Dartmouth College, >Title Unconfirmed to Date > >James Bunce, USDA/ARS,Washington, D.C. >Climate Change and Weed Control > >3:15-3:30 >BREAK > >3:30-5:00 >CLIMATE CHANGE, AGRICULTURE AND CARBON SEGUESTRATION > >Rattan Lal, Ohio State University, Columbus, OH >Soil Management and Carbon Sequestration: A Science Perspective > >Andy Schmitz and Charles Moss, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL >and Chris Dumas, University of North Carolina, Wilmington, NC The >Economics of Carbon Sequestration > >Bruce McCarl, Texas A&M, College Station, TX >The Economics of Climate Change in Agriculture: A Synthesis. > >5:00-5;30 >DISCUSSION > >5:30-6:30 >RECEPTION >*Unconfirmed > >FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE CONFERENCE REFER TO OUR WEB-SITE > THAT WILL BE UPDATED ON 08-24-99 > > http://kierkegaard.ifas.ufl.edu/climatechange.html > > > REGISTRATION: Students - $30 (price change) > All Others - $125 > > > >Please email this registration form to schmitz@fred.ifas.ufl.edu or >fax it to 352-392-3646 for processing, and send your payment made out >to CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE to : > > H. Carole Schmitz > University of Florida > POB 110240 > GAINESVILLE, FL 32611-0240 > >(YOU MAY PREFER TO PAY AT THE REGISTRATION DESK UPON YOUR ARRIVAL AT >THE CONFERENCE SITE FROM 7:00-8:00 ON 09-09-99, BUT PLEASE SEND US >THIS REGISTRATION FORM PRIOR TO THE CONFERENCE SO WE CAN PREPARE YOUR >NAME TAG AND RECEIPT) > > QUESTIONS? > > EMAIL: schmitz@fred.ifas.ufl.edu > > > > REGISTRATION FORM > >NAME ____________________________________________________________ > >AFFILATION _______________________________________________________ > >ADDRESS __________________________________________________________ > >ZIP CODE ___________________________________ > >PHONE ____________________________________________________________ > >FAX _______________________________________________________________ > >EMAIL _____________________________________________________________ > > > >RECEIPT # ______________________ CHECK # ________________ > >AMT REC ________________ INVOICE # ______________________ > >INVOICE # ______________________ > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:13:19 EDT >From: MariavHM@aol.com >Subject: Save the Date--December 2-3, 1999 > >Regional Summit: The Future of Our Food and Farms >December 2-3, 1999 >Philadelphia, PA > >Concerned about food, farming and hunger prevention in the Delaware Valley? > Plan to attend "The Future of Our Food and Farms" regional summit on >December 2-3, 1999, at the Radisson Hotel Philadelphia International >Airport. > "The Future of Our Food and Farms" is a regional summit to promote >agriculture, learn about trends in food distribution and find ways to >reduce hunger. The conference is designed to educate and encourage >networking among those involved in the production, distribution and >consumption of food in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. >Who should attend: Farmers, food industry professionals, government >officials, advocates for hunger prevention and consumers. > > >For more information, contact The Farmers' Market Trust, 215-568-0830, ext. >13 or 800-417-9499. e-mail: foodfarm@libertynet.org. Fax: 215-568-0882 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:54:11 -0500 >From: Dan Anderson >Subject: faith and truth continued > >Fellow Seekers: > > >I can imagine there are many on this list who are going to groan at the= > sight of yet another post dealing with the religion question, but I can't= > help myself. I'm finding it one of the more interesting threads we've seen= > in a while. I think it's very appropriate to explore the potential= > spiritual aspects of science and agriculture. I was especially impressed= > with Dennis' observation that science in America has been elevated to >dogma= > (a religion in itself) and that is the reason we are the only country= > debating evolution vs creation. I would modify that to say that science >has= > been elevated to dogma throughout the whole world, but America is the only= > country where Christians are still strong enough or free enough to argue= > the point.=20 > > >What I don't understand is the assumption that faith and the acceptance of= > God and absolute truth have to result in the end of critical thinking. I= > imagine the whole wing of the Jesuit priesthood, men of faith who somehow= > manage to think their way through numerous PhDs, scoff at this notion. >Many= > of our most famous scientists from long ago made huge advances in thinking= > despite the fact that they were devout Christians. The consensus of the= > scientists who have contributed to this thread seems to be that those who= > believe in absolute truth have skipped ahead to the end of the book (the= > wrong book) to read the last page and then in laziness put the book down. >I= > want to suggest that the acceptance of the existence of God and absolute= > truth is a starting point, a presupposition, just like belief in no God >and= > no absolute truth is a presupposition. I would also argue that the blind= > acceptance of the latter presupposition is just as non-scientific as the= > blind acceptance of the former. Neither can be proven or disprove. Both= > have to be accepted by faith as true. Secular scientists don't believe in= > God because they don't want to believe in God, not because the >"hypothesis"= > of God has been rejected scientifically.=20 > > >As a Christian, I can spend my whole life using the tools of science to= > investigate how the world works, think just as critically about= > agriculture/biological processes and get just as far down the road as a= > secular scientist/thinker. Where Christian presuppositions do "inhibit" my= > thinking is in the moral/ethical/social realm. I believe there is right >and= > wrong. I believe God gave us rules for living and relating to one another.= > I accept these rules by faith, but believe they are also logical and work= > when people understand and adhere to them. These rules provide boundaries= > to behavior, not boundaries to thinking. I would suggest that such moral= > rules are inherent to a sustainable agriculture. Sustainable agriculture >is= > agriculture with social and environmental boundaries that will have to= > based on some moral imperative. Science alone is ill equipped to provide= > such imperatives. It gets too bogged down in the variation and the= > pseudo-moral obsession with not offending ANYone.=20 > > >Modern ag has been dominated by scientific application without moral= > boundaries. Ag development in the western world has been guided by the >sole= > ethic of Increased Production (money). Now we're trying to justify the= > expansion of that to developing countries with a "Feed the World" cause.= > Believe me, money is still at the heart of it. We need additional rules >for= > behavior if we're going to do this without destroying the earth and= > ourselves in the process. For rules to work they have to come from a >higher= > authority. They must be imposed from outside ourselves (and that includes= > our science). Thus the need for God.=20 > > > > > > >Dan Anderson > >Agroecology/Sustainable Agriculture Program > >University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign > >Dept. of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences > >W-503 Turner Hall > >1102 S. Goodwin > >Urbana, IL 61801 MC-047 > >217/333-1588 > >217/333-7370 fax > >aslan@uiuc.edu > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >------------------------------ > >End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1253 >******************************* > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 18:00:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11075 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:00:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24065 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:22:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex2.theitgroup.com ([207.247.16.120]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23991 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theitgroup.com (torrn2.theitgroup.com [10.1.2.10]) by torrex2.theitgroup.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id RK3H5ZLJ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:28:02 -0700 Received: from IT-Message_Server by theitgroup.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:20:45 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:09:58 -0700 From: RALPH COLE To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Tom's hot meat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2409 Tom- You say "There have been major accidents at these plants. Workers have been exposed to radiation. Radioactive water has been poured into public sewer systems." I don't know what major accidents you are referring to. Yes, workers are exposed to radiation. All people are exposed to ionizing radiation. I work in the nuclear field with both sealed sources and loose contamination and I get more exposure to ionizing radiation when I'm out mowing hay than I do in the lab. Further, packing plants would only be using sealed sources, so whatever is exposed to the sources will not pick up or become radioactive. It's just like you getting a chest x-ray. You don't become radioactive, but you do receive a dose. You say "The human body was not designed to eat meat, even organic, free-range animal meats." On the contrary, human morphology is a prime example of an omnivorous animal. I know - I researched the topic during my 17 year sojourn as a vegetarian. We have teeth adapted to both tearing meat and chewing vegetables. Our intestines are neither as short as canine intestines, nor as long as herbivore intestines. Etc., etc. I think our designer knew what he was doing. And the connection between ruminants contributing to "global warming" has been dismissed several times. You touch on some serious issues that I agree with. And I am definitely not pro-nuclear nor am I in favor of food irradiation. I produce pastured zero-antibiotic meat on my farm, sold directly to customers on-farm. However, I think you might want to familiarize yourself with some of the areas you discuss before making such accusations and assertions. Those of us in favor of clean food don't need to give the others easy ammunition to use against us. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 20:21:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14573 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17082 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:47:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17074 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:48:43 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.184] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A34D2592005A; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:46:21 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:39:59 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Dairy Position: McGill U., Montreal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2410 On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:25:38 EDT, John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca wrote: >Please pass this along to anyone who might be interested. For >those who know little of Quebec, it is the major dairy region >in Canada. I'm going to add an unofficial commentary here for those of you who would consider either of these positions at McGill. Anyone interested in these positions should know some things about Quebec that the folks hiring you would probably not volunteer. I lived and worked for 13 years (1978-91) in Quebec and speak French well enough to be mistaken for a native speaker all the time in Europe and much of the time in Quebec. Nevertheless, I was the object of repeated discrimination on the basis of my mostly-Anglo ethnicity and name. More often than not the discrimination was quasi-official and/or urban, rather than at the hands of ordinary *rural* Quebecois. Nothing during several repeat visits leads me to believe anything has changed. Discrimination against Jews is virulent, sometimes vicious, and occasionally official, as in the government's removal of kosher foods from the store shelves in the middle of Passover because the labels weren't in French. If your children have not attended school in English, in Canada, you will in all likelihood be denied the right to send them to school in English in Quebec. When my 12-year-old nephew came from the States to live with us for two years, it took six months of wrangling to get special Ministerial permission for him to attend a local English school. Taxation rates are outrageous, and Quebec is the only place I've ever seen mothers swell with pride and say, "My son is a bureaucrat." As for bureaucracy and heavy-handed officiousness, I'd say Quebec may have found its equal along the Bolivia -- Peru border, but eastern Europe doesn't even come close. There is a 'Regie' (regulatory board) controlling just about everything, and you can get in trouble for things like not hiring an over-priced union carpenter through official channels. Quebec is very much like France in being a bastion of trade-unionism, usually with enthusiastic government support. The province's 40,000 - odd farmers are required by law to pay dues to the Union de Producteurs Agricoles, a vehemently nationalistic, left-wing farmers union. If you can handle the social environment, however, there are some really good things about Quebec. It is one of the most advanced jurisdictions in North America as regards sustainable and organic agriculture. McGill has been involved to some degree since 1974. Quebec farmers are some of the best in the world, and the official farmland protection (a *good* side of that intrusive bureaucracy) means that even 15-20 miles from Montreal farmland is cultivated and affordable. Speculators are largely out of the equation. Montreal is nice, and Quebec City is even nicer. In either city on a snowy Tuesday in February you'll find people on the sidewalk at 11 PM, and the food can be fabulous. If you're willing to tolerate the oppressive bureaucracy, barely-latent discrimination, confiscatory taxation, and absolutely goofy politics, your time in Quebec could be interesting and professionally stimulating. It's one of the hotbeds of sustainable ag, and has been for a quarter-century. Just make sure you go into it all with your eyes wide-open. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 21:14:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15330 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06135 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:41:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA06103 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id TAA17632; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:57 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma017603; Fri, 27 Aug 99 19:40:48 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:50 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:48 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEC5@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Dan Anderson'" Subject: Authority (was: Faith and truth continued) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2411 Dan, > ...many on this list who are going to groan at the sight of > yet another post dealing with the religion question, but I > can't help myself. Yeah, I can't either. But hey, if people don't like it, they can hit delete now! > What I don't understand is the assumption that faith and the > acceptance of God and absolute truth have to result in the end > of critical thinking. My gut feeling is to say "Yes! you are right!" But upon thinking critically about this, I am not so sure. If I offer you a story, claiming it to be absolutely true, will you have faith and believe me? No! you would say, I have faith in God, not you." You trust internal validation by God, for the faith you place in the story you hold so dear. But is internal validation that reliable? Why is your internal validation more reliable than someone elses, whose faith contradicts your own? > I want to suggest that the acceptance of the existence of God > and absolute truth is a starting point, a presupposition, just > like belief in no God and no absolute truth is a presupposition. > I would also argue that the blind acceptance of the latter > presupposition is just as non-scientific as the blind acceptance > of the former. What about the agnostic stance? I think many scientists are agnostics. > Secular scientists don't believe in God because they don't want > to believe in God, not because the "hypothesis" of God has been > rejected scientifically. It is impossible to generalize about scientists, but sure, let's go ahead. If I set aside my Christian belief system, it seems the worldview that embraces God's active involvement in the workings of the universe, has been objectively retreating since the sixteenth century. In what realm of knowledge, that we generally take for granted, is this not true? Naturalistic models can explain most of what we experience. Yet believers conveniently build another pocket to contain God, isolating God from the physical world. The dualism that characterizes modernity occurred as belief in transcendence retreated into the realm of mind. IMO, spiritual/physical dualism is a child of mind/body dualism, and this error results from a cognitive artifact associated with self-consciousness. Transcendence has attempted (so to speak) a breakout from the physicalist prison, and that is what we call romanticism. Rather than embracing the unity of all things, and the concept of simple truth (including "scientific" knowledge) modern romantics (including many in the environmental movement) retreat further into their minds, into relativism, idealism, and postmodernism. Wallowing in all this crap, they are easy prey for whatever trendy message or orthodoxy comes along. Dogma. It all has to do with group dynamics, and the ease with which we fall into line behind authority figures. > I believe there is right and wrong. I believe God gave us rules > for living and relating to one another. How do you think God revealed these? Through the prophets and scriptures? Through nonhuman nature? Through the evolution of altruistic human instinct? > Sustainable agriculture is agriculture with social and environmental > boundaries that will have to based on some moral imperative. It seems like the SA movement formulates ethical norms on the basis of natural law (excluding humans). The norms seem inconsistent, and derived from a romantic, dualistic framework. > Science alone is ill equipped to provide such imperatives. What about evolutionary ethics? Is that possible? > Modern ag has been dominated by scientific application > without moral boundaries. I'm not sure that is true. I think science is part of the progressive project of the Enlightenment, and that is not so evil IMO. Most people I know in ag science, are very ethically grounded. Many are devout Christians. I don't find many idealists and relativists though. I think most scientists are trying to work for the good of people. They want to do good. Of course they (we) might be deceived by systemic evil. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 22:00:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15736 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22157 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22145 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15516 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id VAA07528 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:22:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:22:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: OCIA In-Reply-To: <19990827192658674.AAA84@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.21]> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2412 > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Patricia Foreman wrote: > > Does anyone know of a source for organic feed grains in the southeast > > or mid-atlantic region? > > Neil Martin at Southside Poultry in Blackstone, Virginia, 1-804-292-1744 > sells OCIA certified organic poultry feed. He is too far away to help you > directly, but may know someone in your region who has organic grains. And, > check the OCIA chapter in Tennessee, they will know. If you don't have their > number I think Rich Molini can get it for you.... Rich, are you there???? > > Andy Lee > Good Earth Farm School Is OCIA active in North Carolina? If so does anyone know of a contact person? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Aug 27 23:42:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17314 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28697 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:06:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28645 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:06:07 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:05:20 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:05:20 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.78] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1660023c ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:05:02 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990827215636.009397b0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:56:36 -0500 To: Subject: FW: Organic and food safety Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2413 Gosh, I am sure dizzy after reading this shill's report. I especially liked the quote "Organic means a food was grown in animal manure." Try the Hudson Institute and their Nuclear Waste Disposal Subcommittee (grin) as a possible source. This is the same manure that avery is spouting - probably from an internal source. (evil grin). Mike Miller >Subject: FW: Organic and food safety > > >It would be interesting to track some of these sources down. This may be a >revival of the story that was going around a few month ago RE: CDC's numbers >on organic and foodborne illness. This article comes from FSnet, a daily >news feed out of Guelph. > >See http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/riskcomm/news-today/today.html > >or http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/riskcomm/news-today/ if a few days have >passed. > >Another source of information about Food Safety--including irradiation--is >the Foodsafe listserv: >http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodborne/foodborn.htm > > >Andy > > >> From FSnet 8/26/99 >> >> ORGANIC FOOD CREATES HIGHER RISK FOR FOOD POISONING >> Aug. 25 /99 >> US Newswire >> Marc Morano >> WASHINGTON -- An investigation by the nationally syndicated television >> newsmagazine program American Investigator revealed in June 1998 that, >> according to the Centers for Disease Control's (CDC) own numbers, organic >> and natural food products represent a higher rate of food borne illness, >> commonly referred to as food poisoning. Correspondent Marc Morano explains >> that "by creating food free of synthetic chemicals and preservatives, >> organic and natural foods have removed barriers between humans and harmful >> disease-causing bacteria." >> Virlie Walker, an FDA official, is now on record warning that, "Most >> especially at risk are your organic products because they could be >> fertilized with manure." Also on record is chief of the CDC's Foodborne >> illness division Robert V. Tauxe, addressing pathogens that thrive in >> manure, "Organic means a food was grown in animal manure." >> Dr. Lester Crawford of the Georgetown Center for Food and Nutrition Policy >> told American Investigator, "Organic foods as they're raised with manure >> as fertilizers and sometimes without chlorinated water, provide a great >> opportunity for bacteria to grow." >> "Just on the basis of the label, I would probably tend to shy away from >> the organic," said Dr. Dean Cliver, a food scientist from University of >> Southern California-Davis. >> Even though modern chemical farming occasionally uses manure, they also >> use salt, preservatives and chemical washes, which kill harmful bacteria. >> Organic proponents told American Investigator that manure is safe from >> bacteria if it's properly composted, however the newsmagazine found no >> standard or scientific gauge to determine what is "properly" composted >> manure. Dr. Cliver said, "We can tell you how a hamburger is very well >> done but we can't tell you when manure is very well done." >> >> >> >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 00:11:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17957 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA12404 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:38:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12381 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-24.csj.net [12.29.22.24]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA03408; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:38:11 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: Cc: "'Jacksonville Journal Courier'" Subject: American Corn Growers Association GMO position Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:37:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bef106$a8d54700$eb93fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2414 This was part of the eharvest.com email that was sent to the list. Easy to miss with global implications. Corn Growers Call on Farmers to Consider Alternatives to Planting GMOs If Questions Are Not Answered WASHINGTON, Aug. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- To ease the dilemma over the uncertainly caused by genetically modified organisms (GMO), the American Corn Growers Association (ACGA) is proposing that farmers should look at the option of planting non-GMO crops if certain questions are not answered. This is not an issue over the health or scientific effects of GMOs. It's an issue over production agriculture's inability to answer the many questions that surround this controversial issue. ``GMOs have become the albatross around the neck of farmers on issues of trade, labeling, testing, certification, segregation, market availability and agribusiness concentration. Until all these issues are answered, it is best for production agriculture to examine alternatives to planting GMOs,'' said Gary Goldberg, Chief Executive Officer of the ACGA. There are many uncertainties facing farmers. Historically low prices brought about by overproduction have made the future unclear. Adding to this uncertainty is unfair to producers. Therefore, the ACGA is calling on the following questions to be addressed: -- How do we export GMO grains to unwilling foreign customers and will the USDA encourage the sale of GMO free crops? -- Who will be responsible for maintaining separate channels for GMO crops and assuring the integrity of non-GMO crops? Will farmers who plant traditional (non-GMO) varieties be burdened with testing and other costs associated with segregation or identity preservation? -- If testing is needed, who will do the testing, can the testing be done in the field, and how much will the tests costs? -- How far do GMO and GMO free grains have to be planted from each other to prevent cross-pollination? -- Since GMO fields can cross-pollinate with non-GMO fields, will GMO growers be required to plant buffer zones? How large should the buffer zones be? -- Will biotech companies be liable for contamination of non-GMO crops caused by cross-pollination? -- Will there be the need for liability waivers between neighbors to prevent legal ramifications in the event of one neighbor not knowing what another neighbor is planting? -- How does a grain elevator plan to segregate GMO from GMO free and will there be a price differential? -- What kind of certification procedure will be needed for the elevator and will each elevator have its own certification form? -- Should USDA come forward with a universal certification process that would be accepted by all grain elevators? -- How does the monopolistic practice of a handful of companies controlling the entire GMO process effect the future of U.S. food production? -- How would labeling of GMO products fall within the GATT framework? -- Are the supposedly higher yields of GMOs marketable in a climate that already has overproduction and oversupply? ``Farmers are caught in the middle of this dispute between grain exporters, foreign buyers, seed companies, local grain elevators and different governments. The ACGA feels it is best for producers to consider alternatives for this upcoming planting season until these many questions are answered,'' concluded Goldberg. The ACGA calls on seed companies to make sure that an adequate supply of GMO free seed is available to farmers for the 2000 planting season and that no undue pressure to plant GMOs is placed upon a producer by his or her seed company. SOURCE: American Corn Growers Association To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 01:46:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19300 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15853 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:08:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15754 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20195 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:04:23 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: No. Calif.--chickens for adoption Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2415 Howdy, all-- Is there anyone in the northern Calif./Bay Area who has farmland and would be able to adopt three hens from the San Francisco Animal Care and Control shelter? Three of the loveliest, and friendliest, hens I've ever met, are there awaiting their fate. Here are photos of two of them, Cameron and Catherine: http://www.ci.sf.ca.us/acc/other.htm I have had occasion to visit the shelter regularly since my darling yearling lutino lovebird, Pasha, broke out of his well-secured cage (alligator clips and twist-ties) last Saturday and slipped out of the slightly open bathroom window (open for ventilation to offset the pilot light on the heater--houses here don't, by and large, have screens). I am heartbroken about it--and so is his buddy, Squirt. I'll be visiting the shelter often, hoping that some kind soul finds him and takes him there. Anyway, the hens appear gentle and sweet, and come to the door of their pens, with that inquiring sound they make, when I go into the small animal room. There are also several lovely King Pigeons--white and tame. If anyone thinks they could take these birds, let me know. I'd be happy to act as the SF liaison, and help in whatever way to find them a home, including assisting with adoption fees, helping with transportation, etc. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Humans don't eat roosters -- why? They make eggs with the hens and wake everyone up in the morning. I tried it with the hens: it didn't work. So I turned to crowing, and lo! I discover my gift. But no sooner do I become indispensable than they bring in a machine to do the job. Ohhhh-oh-oh, the treachery of it -- a mechanical rooster! --Ferdinand the duck To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 01:46:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19304 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15841 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:08:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15733 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:08:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20181; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:03:53 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: FW: Organic and food safety Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2416 Howdy, all-- Andy wrote: >It would be interesting to track some of these sources down. This may be a >revival of the story that was going around a few month ago RE: CDC's numbers >on organic and foodborne illness. This article comes from FSnet, a daily >news feed out of Guelph. Andy, it's kinda related, and here's how I see it--not, perhaps, in content...but certainly in information strategy. > > From FSnet 8/26/99 > > > > ORGANIC FOOD CREATES HIGHER RISK FOR FOOD POISONING > > Aug. 25 /99 > > US Newswire Here's the original story. http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0825-119.htm Do you notice that there is no source listed on this item? U.S. Newswire http://www.usnewswire.com is not the source. It is the distribution service. USN describes itself thus: It's a pass-along service.This service takes news feeds from Whoever and sends them out with the imprimatur of "U.S. Newswire." They have a "standard of acceptability," but they do not edit, fact-check, or source-check. They broadcast. OK, that's their niche. So what if an item comes across, like this organic food one, and there's no source, and people pass it along as though it were verified? One could choose to believe it, particularly if predisposed to believe that organic food is bad. Or one could be skeptical. As Andy (justifiably) was. And then some little info-termite has to sit down on a date-less Friday evening and check it. :^) My pleasure. OK. If you recall, in January of this year, a U.S. Newswire item came thru various channels bearing the title "Sierra Club Executive Endorses High-Yield Agriculture." It was un-sourced, but turned out to be a Hudson Institute (Dennis Avery's organization) press release, distributed via USN. At that time, I concluded that USN oughtn't be considered a completely reputable source, for the above reasons. In a case like this one, USN has the out of saying, hey, *we* didn't produce this news, our MEMBERS did. And the member organizations know that their partisan "reportage" is masked with the U.S. Newswire dateline. I reported this on SANET. http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/30-html/0356.html I have a call in to Bill McCarren, founder of US Newswire; we'll see if he responds to my request for clarification on USN's requirements for source identification. Now let's go on. > > Marc Morano > > WASHINGTON -- An investigation by the nationally syndicated television > > newsmagazine program American Investigator "Nationally syndicated television newsmagazine program"? Criminy, so were the McCarthy hearings, when you come down to it. (Ooops...I just dated myself--were the McCarthy hearings on TV? I wasn't born yet.) But anyway, hold that reference, please, because I'll come back to it. As for American Investigator? I never heard of it. But then I haven't turned on my TV to receive broadcasts since moving to San Francisco--a few movies and Bill Moyers' interview with George Lucas. So I did an Alta Vista search on that phrase, and came up with a bunch of hits, the first ten or so of which 404'd (file not found). They all had a common URL/domain name: http://www.freecongress.org I truncated one of the URLs and got the home page of The Free Congress Foundation. "A non-profit, tax-exempt organization." Washington, DC. In their own words: "Free Congress Foundation is politically conservative, but it is more than that: it is also culturally conservative. Most think tanks talk about tax rates or the environment or welfare policy and occasionally we do also. But our main focus is on the Culture War. Will America return to the culture that made it great, our traditional, Judeo-Christian, Western culture? Or will we continue the long slide into the cultural and moral decay of political correctness? If we do, America, once the greatest nation on earth, will become no less than a third world country." Source: http://www.freecongress.org/fcf/ Apart from the fact that this confused me--here I thought that the cultures that made America great were African (given that it was enslaved African agriculturalists and their free descendant industrial laborers who built the food system and industrial base of the colonies)--this rang a bell for me. The founder and head of this organization is Paul Weyrich, one of the organizers of the ultra-right-wing cabal once the darlings but now emerging as the plague of the Republican Party. Seems the GOP is no longer politically correct enough for Weyrich and his cabalistas, and so he/they are trying to destroy it in his pursuit of a utopian conservatism that never, ever, compromises on anything, and destroys any individual Republican lawmaker who vacillates in the slightest from that standard of perfection. Republican lawmakers who've been targeted by his wrath (including that leftist enemy of Western civilization, Orrin Hatch) have designated him as divisive, paranoid, negative, pessimistic, temperamental, and reactionary. Hey, I'm just passing along what I've read in conservative journals and heard from conservative friends. I've never met the man. Interestingly, he is from Wisconsin, ja hey. In Wisconsin, side by side with diverse compassionate, courageous Progressives like Bob LaFollette and Russ Feingold and Erwin Knoll and John Nichols and Tammy Baldwin, we seem to create snickerdoodle political reactionaries whose communications appear to reflect a low sense of self-esteem, a fascination with their own voices, a taste for demagoguery and extremism, and a spirit mean enough to eat all the chrome off of a 1955 Olds Super 88. Weyrich is one of the favored--though perhaps falling out of favor, since helping bring Newt Gingrich down in last year's putsch--talking heads of the ultraconservative far-right. He has dabbled in ultraconservative telecommunications enterprises, and was one of the founders of NET, an intentionally ideologically driven public affairs network, founded in 1993, and I believe now defunct, or anyway moribund. He left it because he said there was a "difference of viewpoint" on how to conduct the network. For starters, under his leadership, it was hemorrhaging money, and nobody was watching the programming. Though TCI's John Malone was really eager to carry it. Is Weyrich ringing any bells yet? No? Does the Heritage Foundation? He started it in 1973 with a $1/4-million gift from Joseph Coors, of the Coors beer empire. Today, the Heritage Foundation has an annual budget of $25 million. They spend it on research and policy initiatives. $25 million buys a lot of Free Congress, eh? So. The Free Congress Foundation, founded and headed up by Paul Weyrich, produces, among other information products, a TV show called "The American Investigator." "The only hard-hitting investigative news program in America today that investigates stories the establishment would rather sweep under the carpet." This was news to me, by golly. Welcome to the establishment, organic farmers!!!!! It was a long wait, do you suppose we'll all get rich now? Yep, I can see where organic farming would contribute to "the long slide into the cultural and moral decay of political correctness." Nothing like clean food, a good work ethic, a sense of stewardship, and a strong sense of community to grease those skids. So. Watch those sources, be alert for red flags. The Free Congress Foundation is an organization for which "news" and "spin" are indistinguishable. It has a clearly stated political mission, and admits that its "reportage" is targeted to carry that out. U.S. Newswire makes no distinction between those pixels and others. And so we come to this story of organic food being unsafe because "Organic means a food was grown in animal manure." Oh, golly. I laughed, then went out and bought a pint of Ben and Jerry's "Bovinity Divinity" ice cream at my neighborhood store. Half a pint later , I returned to a more ruminant state, and realized I felt deep concern about this story. It's bonky as a jar full of grasshoppers. The sort of thing I'd've used in my communications survey courses to teach young folks how to spot and analyze misleading reportage. That doesn't mean it can't be highly damaging. OK, one last thing: > Also on record is chief of the CDC's Foodborne > illness division Robert V. Tauxe, addressing pathogens that thrive in > manure, "Organic means a food was grown in animal manure." Here is a late 1997 article by Tauxe on emerging infectious diseases: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol3no4/tauxe.htm Nowhere in this piece does he say a thing about organic growing methods. In it, he raises quite valid epidemiological concerns. Here is the abstract: "The epidemiology of foodborne disease is changing. New pathogens have emerged, and some have spread worldwide. Many, including Salmonella, Escherichia coli O157:H7, Campylobacter, and Yersinia enterocolitica, have reservoirs in healthy food animals, from which they spread to an increasing variety of foods. These pathogens cause millions of cases of sporadic illness and chronic complications, as well as large and challenging outbreaks over many states and nations. Improved surveillance that combines rapid subtyping methods, cluster identification, and collaborative epidemiologic investigation can identify and halt large, dispersed outbreaks. Outbreak investigations and case-control studies of sporadic cases can identify sources of infection and guide the development of specific prevention strategies. Better understanding of how pathogens persist in animal reservoirs is also critical to successful long-term prevention. In the past, the central challenge of foodborne disease lay in preventing the contamination of human food with sewage or animal manure. In the future, prevention of foodborne disease will increasingly depend on controlling contamination of feed and water consumed by the animals themselves." If epidemiologists are observing changes in outbreak patterns, that's something we in the organics and sustainable ag community need to know, from an impartial perspective...and it's going to raise a bunch of research needs, as well. Also I searched CDC's site on his name, and found 187 documents; needless to say, even a date-less Friday night would be no excuse for reading them all. But I smell something here, and it isn't fish. Did Tauxe really say that? Anyone have CDC connections, who can fact-check this? I couldn't turn up contact information for him. > Dr. Cliver ["a food scientist from University of Southern > California-Davis"]. said, "We can tell you how a hamburger is very > well done but we can't tell you when manure is very well done." Oh, HONey--shaaaaaa. There are times when it's *perfectly* clear when manure is very well done. peace misha PS--A Harvard student has put a copy of a /New Republic/ article on-line; it profiles Weyrich: "Robespierre of the Right: what I ate at the revolution"; /The New Republic/, 217:17 (October 27, 1997), p. 20-. By David Grann. http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~mcloughl/network/history.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oh, your hands are connected to your arms, your arms are connected to your shoulders, your shoulders are connected to your body, your body is connected to your head. Oh, your head is connected to... nothing... and that explains a lot. --Red Green To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 01:46:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19308 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15715 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:08:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15616 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20115 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:59:39 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: Organic feed grains Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2417 Howdy, all-- Ralph Cole asked: >Does anyone know of a source for organic feed grains in the southeast >or mid-atlantic region? I only know of one place in Wisconsin for this, and >that's a bit far from Tennessee. The local feed mills don't have much >motivation to supply organic feeds. Ralph, off the top of my head, a few ideas on where you might find that information. Michael Straus suggested Organic Valley/CROPP; here is their Web site: http://www.organicvalley.com At that site you will find loads of information, including "The Organic Trader," which has leads to organic feed, forages, and more: http://www.organicvalley.com/trader.htm Subscription information for this service appears there. OFMA's site includes this "farmer's market": http://web.iquest.net/ofma/4sale.htm I don't have a sense of how many people access that, or how effective it is to advertise there. It doesn't look as lively as the Organic Valley one--that is, postings are older ('98) and not very frequent. See what you think. I am, of course, a great supporter of human-to-human networking around existing information sources. One that comes to mind is publications by certifying agencies that list feed/forage growers (either as a column or as a stand-alone directory). The newsletter of the Wisconsin OCIA chapter (/The Organic Broadcaster/). It provides a feed, forage, and other inputs networking column--folks list what they need or what they have available or are seeking to buy. I can't for the life of me find which of these gazillion boxes I have my back issues in...but if I'm not mistaken, that column lists feed sources from all over the US. The editor of the /Broadcaster/ could help you figure out where to go for more information close to your area. She could also tell you whether I'm remembering correctly what's in that column. Lila Marmel sunmoon@mwt.net Faye Jones, the organizer of the Upper Midwest Organic Farming Conference, and education coordinator for the Midwest Organic and Sustainable Education Services (MOSES), might be of help to you on this question: Faye Jones fjeoc@win.bright.net I don't know whether other certifying agencies' chapters provide the same service, but that would be worth checking into. For instance, Oregon Tilth publishes a directory of its certified folks; I can't say off the top of my head whether it's available to anyone who wants to subscribe to it or not. (It wouldn't be much use otherwise, would it?) I've seen other small directories of this sort; I don't know of any centralized repository of them. Does ATTRA have any? Whatever you learn about information resources for this, Ralph, would you kindly share it with all us SANETters? peace misha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 07:44:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23123 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16651 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:03:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16619 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA19057; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 06:02:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-231.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.231) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019050; Sat Aug 28 06:01:30 1999 Message-ID: <000801bef144$87ed5260$e7fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Organic and food safety Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:00:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2418 Hi list this theme was posted before question did the CDC do such a study? A big chuckle at not being able to tell if compost is done, well who tells if all the package manure in garden stores is "done". Gosh this makes it sound like ya take a manure pile see and ya just throw some seeds on it a whala organic gardening. Beth >> >>> From FSnet 8/26/99 >>> >>> ORGANIC FOOD CREATES HIGHER RISK FOR FOOD POISONING >>> Aug. 25 /99 >>> US Newswire >>> Marc Morano >>> WASHINGTON -- An investigation by the nationally syndicated television >>> newsmagazine program American Investigator revealed in June 1998 that, >>> according to the Centers for Disease Control's (CDC) own numbers, organic >>> and natural food products represent a higher rate of food borne illness, >>> commonly referred to as food poisoning. Correspondent Marc Morano explains >>> that "by creating food free of synthetic chemicals and preservatives, >>> organic and natural foods have removed barriers between humans and harmful >>> disease-causing bacteria." >>> Virlie Walker, an FDA official, is now on record warning that, "Most >>> especially at risk are your organic products because they could be >>> fertilized with manure." Also on record is chief of the CDC's Foodborne >>> illness division Robert V. Tauxe, addressing pathogens that thrive in >>> manure, "Organic means a food was grown in animal manure." >>> Dr. Lester Crawford of the Georgetown Center for Food and Nutrition Policy >>> told American Investigator, "Organic foods as they're raised with manure >>> as fertilizers and sometimes without chlorinated water, provide a great >>> opportunity for bacteria to grow." >>> "Just on the basis of the label, I would probably tend to shy away from >>> the organic," said Dr. Dean Cliver, a food scientist from University of >>> Southern California-Davis. >>> Even though modern chemical farming occasionally uses manure, they also >>> use salt, preservatives and chemical washes, which kill harmful bacteria. >>> Organic proponents told American Investigator that manure is safe from >>> bacteria if it's properly composted, however the newsmagazine found no >>> standard or scientific gauge to determine what is "properly" composted >>> manure. Dr. Cliver said, "We can tell you how a hamburger is very well >>> done but we can't tell you when manure is very well done." >>> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 09:38:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24940 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03142 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:10:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03127 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0022.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.22]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11943; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 06:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C4772D.27F35393@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:07:26 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: truth and belief References: <8B342C91A42@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2419 Doesn't any of it matter. Nobody hurt my feelings. And after all, the real truth will be shown up so clearly at Armageddon that there will never ever anywhere on earth be any questions again as to what is THE truth. Anita Graf wrote me such a nice reply-- let her be. ==================== Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > From: "Ikerd, John E." > > Subject: Truth and Belief > > > > Sanet; > > > > It's all a matter of belief - the mental acceptance of and conviction in the > > truth, actuality, or validity of something. > > This may often be true, especially when we are influenced by > unexamined (or, for that matter, openly accepted) prejudices. > However, most of us have also had the experience of nuetral and open > mind whereupon we go about searching for an answer that is > satisfactory, and, at least at the outset, the outcome is uncertain. > After searching, questioning, and probing, we may all find different > answers to what seemed like the same question originally. It will > most likely illustrate that we are simply all a little off target -- > that the universal truth of the Universe and the Meaning of Life > is a tricky thing to get ahold of. But having all done the work > to get where we got, we could then sit down and have a really > interesting discussion. I submit to you that the discussion is far > less meaningful and interesting if had among people who decided the > answer without ever even going looking for it. > > So, you might say, who am I to decide that Bargyla has not examined > her beliefs? No one in particular, I suppose, I just haven't seen > evidence of it. Just like she always says that 50% of the population > will get cancer without showing us how she got there (and in fact > when she was given contrary information, it didn't seem to make much > of a difference). > > I know that many of you reacted strongly and negatively to my recent > long post on religious dogma and spiritual beliefs (Misha was > probably just the spokesperson for many). I heard that you thought I > was the real judgemental and narrow minded protagonist of the story. > I gotcha. I appologize for being less diplomatic than I might have > been. I was feeling brave, and frank at that moment and not afraid > to "stir it up." Just for the record, my intention was not to > invalidate Bargyla as a person (or to "shut her up" -- I'm not a > bully). Questioning the validity of a person's science (if you will > permit me to use the idea of "spiritual science") is not the same as > saying the person him/herself doesn't have worth. (Btw, the original > meaning of "I'm ok, you're ok" is the recognition of the basic worth > of one's self and others.) My intention was to point out that there > are beliefs which are taken in unexamined and those which are > thoroughly questioned and examined before they are allowed to > permeate the believer. Put me on the side of Socrates who preferred > hemlock to living the unexamined life. I don't think you should > accept organic agriculture either based on blind faith -- or anything > else for that matter. Here's my basic belief: the end does not > justify the means. (If the means are blind and unexamined, then the > end is of not much value.) > > Anita (having probably perched myself at the end of a limb again and > considering the possibility that I will be misunderstood and will > offend again, but taking that chance.) > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 09:38:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24939 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03230 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:10:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03226 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0022.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.22]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12144; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 06:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C47F38.1A9E02DF@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:41:45 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha CC: SANET-mg , mister3d@third-dimension.com Subject: Re: Health effects/GMO L-tryptophan References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2420 There is an organization, with a big library, with hdqtrs in both Germany (stuttgart) and Sedona AZ, that publishes World Research News. They gather up every tiny or large scrap of data, books, publns of many kinds, on medical/problem topics. They have a catalog of books, videos and audio tapes. If you have any trouble, or know of someone who has, they will send a HUGE mass of data to you, hoping you will offer a donation. I sent for what they had on sarcoidosis, because my son has that, and it apparently is an "orphan" disease--who works on it/??? so he cannot find the cause or remedy. It means all the organis gradually fill up with scar tissue, and you die. As I am desperately in need of knowing/keeping my deeply beloved son (is) alive, I had them send what they had. I was astounded at the range and amount--they never let even a tiny bit of data get lost. They have a big library of all kinds of sources. Just thought it might be good for everyone to know about that. World Research News World Research Fdn, World Research Bldg, 41 Bell Rock Plaza, Sedona, Arizona 86351. 520-284-3300, fax 520-284-3530 Misha wrote: > Howdy, all-- > > While doing a brief search on migraine and ophthalmic migraine, I ran > across a World Wide Web site that I thought some of you GMO watchers > might be interested in. > > It's the site of the the National Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome > Network, Inc., a non-profit organization that supports people with > this condition. The network also encourages "research to improve > treatment for L-tryptophan-induced EMS" and works toward "increasing > awareness of the cause and effects of the disease." > > A backgrounder in the group's words: > > "In the fall of 1989, three patients in New Mexico were found to have > extremely high eosinophil counts in their blood and were suffering > from severe myalgias (muscle pain and spasms). Upon investigation it > was determined that all three had > ingested a petrochemically and genetically engineered product labeled > L-Tryptophan. L-T in its natural form is an amino acid found in such > products as milk and turkey. Within weeks the number of cases > exploded into an epidemic of over 1,500 cases in the U.S. This new > disease became known as Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome (EMS). Victims > of EMS were suffering in unrelenting degrees of pain. Many became > totally and permanently incapacitated, a number were on life support > equipment and scores of EMS victims died." > > The site provides medical and experiential documentation of the > illness, the believed cause, and other issues. I pass it along for > your interest and evaluation. > > There are some interesting perspectives there--a combination of the > precautionary principle (affected patients and their families who > feel they've been used as guinea pigs in genetic engineering) and > risk assessment (there are links to research on the topic). And of > course plenty of assertions by the medical community that, see?, we > always TOLD you supplements could be harmful! I'm not saying that > this isn't true, but it intrigues me that, at a time when iatrogenic > causes account for so much patient illness and death, prominent > members of the medical community are so excitedly pointing fingers > elsewhere, instead of at themselves. > > It's always easier to project blame than to take responsibility, and > much more lucrative to quash questions and dissenting opinion than to > build it into research agendas. > > peace > misha > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michele Gale-Sinex > Communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > http://www.wisc.edu > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I MAKE friends. They're toys. My friends are toys. I make them. It's a hobby. > I'm a genetic designer. --J.F. Sebastian (William Sanderson, /Blade Runner/) > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 09:39:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24947 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:39:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03105 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:10:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03093 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0022.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.22]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11801; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 06:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C4715C.80B588FF@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:42:36 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sgroff@epix.net CC: Cecile Mills , Julie , Sustainable Ag Net Subject: Re: Agriculturelaw.com References: <37C340C5.B066484B@epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2421 I have heard Rominger speak, and talked tohim. I never got the impression he was particularly favorable to organic method--his life is that of an official--has to toe the line, I suppose. Steve Groff wrote: > Cecile Mills wrote: > > > > > > > This past week, the Secretary of Agriculture in California visited his > > FIRST organic farm. I believe the people in the forefront of mainstream > > agriculture are ignorant in the true sense of the word--why else would they > > exclude organic information and resources? > > The U.S. Deputy Secretary of Ag, Richard Ruminger, has a son who has an organic > farm in CA. He is one who I think has at least some understanding of the needs > of sustainable farming, but I will say that I don't know his political track > record very well. > > Steve Groff > > "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ > Cedar Meadow Farm > 679 Hilldale Road > Holtwood, PA 17532 USA > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 09:40:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24951 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:40:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03147 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:10:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03143 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0022.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.22]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11982; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 06:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C47920.F4515948@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:15:44 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: truth and belief References: <8B342C91A42@agecon.uga.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2422 I forgot---yes, someone did ask my source for the statement that cancer in US now affects 1 out of every 2 persons. I don't recall where I saw that, and have stopped saving so much "medical" kind of info, as the house is bulging now with my files and stacks of unfiled data. But again I saw it--again did not bother to copy it, that I can remember---but if and when I see it again, I shall surely make note of it to tell it here. It had not occurred to me that such a bit of data was so unusual--I suppose I figured, without much thinking, that such figures must be around many places. Could be tracked down, but who has the time? If it had occurred to me that a source was important, I suppose I would have printed it out or photocopies it. Surely it must exist many place, since I have already seen it in 2 different places. Just don't have the time and strength to hunt thru everything in this house. Sorry if it was careless, or that I should not have quoted it without keeping a source on file. I figure my work is just helping people with organic method info, so then I should have kept my big mouth--big key-pushing-finger, rather. to my self. tsk tsk, poor Bargyla is always in the wrong. Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > > From: "Ikerd, John E." > > Subject: Truth and Belief > > > > Sanet; > > > > It's all a matter of belief - the mental acceptance of and conviction in the > > truth, actuality, or validity of something. > > This may often be true, especially when we are influenced by > unexamined (or, for that matter, openly accepted) prejudices. > However, most of us have also had the experience of nuetral and open > mind whereupon we go about searching for an answer that is > satisfactory, and, at least at the outset, the outcome is uncertain. > After searching, questioning, and probing, we may all find different > answers to what seemed like the same question originally. It will > most likely illustrate that we are simply all a little off target -- > that the universal truth of the Universe and the Meaning of Life > is a tricky thing to get ahold of. But having all done the work > to get where we got, we could then sit down and have a really > interesting discussion. I submit to you that the discussion is far > less meaningful and interesting if had among people who decided the > answer without ever even going looking for it. > > So, you might say, who am I to decide that Bargyla has not examined > her beliefs? No one in particular, I suppose, I just haven't seen > evidence of it. Just like she always says that 50% of the population > will get cancer without showing us how she got there (and in fact > when she was given contrary information, it didn't seem to make much > of a difference). > > I know that many of you reacted strongly and negatively to my recent > long post on religious dogma and spiritual beliefs (Misha was > probably just the spokesperson for many). I heard that you thought I > was the real judgemental and narrow minded protagonist of the story. > I gotcha. I appologize for being less diplomatic than I might have > been. I was feeling brave, and frank at that moment and not afraid > to "stir it up." Just for the record, my intention was not to > invalidate Bargyla as a person (or to "shut her up" -- I'm not a > bully). Questioning the validity of a person's science (if you will > permit me to use the idea of "spiritual science") is not the same as > saying the person him/herself doesn't have worth. (Btw, the original > meaning of "I'm ok, you're ok" is the recognition of the basic worth > of one's self and others.) My intention was to point out that there > are beliefs which are taken in unexamined and those which are > thoroughly questioned and examined before they are allowed to > permeate the believer. Put me on the side of Socrates who preferred > hemlock to living the unexamined life. I don't think you should > accept organic agriculture either based on blind faith -- or anything > else for that matter. Here's my basic belief: the end does not > justify the means. (If the means are blind and unexamined, then the > end is of not much value.) > > Anita (having probably perched myself at the end of a limb again and > considering the possibility that I will be misunderstood and will > offend again, but taking that chance.) > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Aug 28 10:12:17 1999 -0400 Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25266 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:12:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Pburst@aol.com Received: from Pburst@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id sZQOa03711 (3999) for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <72e85f2f.24f94569@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:00:09 EDT Subject: Re: OCIA To: london@metalab.unc.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2423 Hi, Try asking at their international office (402/477-2323). They are unltimately responsible for the chapters and should be able to direct you. Good Luck! Patti Bursten Independent Organic Inspector Black Earth, WI From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 16:59:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01232 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09263 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:14:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09254 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.213 (mx3-70.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.213]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA32395; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:13:22 -0500 Message-ID: <37C84629.3116@smallfarms.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:27:21 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Lost Consumer Survey Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2424 Hello: Does anyone recall a survey done by a national polling organization which showed that some 50% of consumers were concerned about safe food issues and that many of them were willing to pay more for organic and sustainable food? It may have gone on to say that the consumer felt that the small farmer was the best source of info on food safety. I may be confusing sources and polls, or the information may have been part of a larger news article. A small rancher friend and I were talking about it, and if my memory is even somewhat accurate, I'd like to get her info on this. Thank you. glenn Buy from the Farmer www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 17:23:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01610 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22649 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:47:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22630 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:39:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'glenn@smallfarms.com'" Subject: RE: Lost Consumer Survey Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:39:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2425 many polls have found results along these lines . . . one that is very close to your question was by the Southern Regional Research Project On Agriculture and the Environment S-246 . . . a good overview of these results is in the Council On Agricultural Science and Technology publication on Consumer Perceptions of Food Safety by Eileen vanRavenswaay . . . i'm not sure about perceptions of small farmers as sources of information, but many surveys find that consumers believe that small farmers produce safer food than large scale farmers cheers, craig craig k harris dept of sociology 429b berkey hall michigan state university east lansing michigan 48824-1111 u.s.a. tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Glenn[SMTP:glenn@smallfarms.com] > Reply To: glenn@smallfarms.com > Sent: Saturday 28 August 1999 15:27 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Lost Consumer Survey > > Hello: > > Does anyone recall a survey done by a national polling organization > which showed that some 50% of consumers were concerned about safe food > issues and that many of them were willing to pay more for organic and > sustainable food? It may have gone on to say that the consumer felt > that the small farmer was the best source of info on food safety. > > I may be confusing sources and polls, or the information may have been > part of a larger news article. > > A small rancher friend and I were talking about it, and if my memory is > even somewhat accurate, I'd like to get her info on this. > > Thank you. > > glenn > Buy from the Farmer > www.smallfarms.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 19:34:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03690 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10237 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:55:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10224 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:54:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.137]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA16135 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:49:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990828175157.00732a38@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:51:57 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Cancer rates in US Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA10225 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2426 From: RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #641 . . ---March 11, 1999--- . . HEADLINES: . . THE CANCER WAR GRINDS ON . . ========== . . Environmental Research Foundation . . P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD 21403 . . Fax (410) 263-8944; E-mail: erf@rachel.org (SNIP) >Cancer struck 1,228,000 Americans for >the first time in 1998, and 564,800 Americans died of cancer in >1998. A man's chances of getting cancer during his lifetime are >now 48% (about 1 out of 2) and a woman's chances are now 38% >(about 4 out of 10). Clearly, we have a very long way to go >before we can claim that the "war on cancer" has been won. (SNIP) >Ref: Lynn A.G. Ries and others, SEER CANCER STATISTICS REVIEW, 1973-1995 (Bethesda, Maryland: National Cancer Institute, 1998). Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 20:08:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04031 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25079 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25070 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0121.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.182.121]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16756; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C7EED9.3DCF050@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:14:50 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: truth and belief References: <000501beef5a$32af58c0$3c3325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2427 I am terribly surprised to hear myself characterized as brutal. I don't ever slam any individual or groups of individuals. I merely state that the Bible is THE word of the Almighty, and I quote from it. I know there are many religions of many different kinds, and that such religions, or variations of them, and that such existed thru the ages of Bible times. Nothing new about that fact. BUT the real answer will be when Armageddon comes. Then there will be no more replies, no arguments, no varations of the themes, etc. There will be just the one fact--God will either destroy you or save you thru the destruction he brings upon humanity in general. THAT is what will decide once and for all, throughout eternity, which book had the truth, which faith is life-saving. That will be final and total end of all religions other than that in the Bible. Sure there are plenty of religions, all kinds and variations on the themes. But Jesus said there was only one right way, and I would not say he was "brutal". He was definite, yes,, and extremely critical of those who disagreed, because he knew what was true. He called the religious hypocrites of his times "offspring of vipers" and he said they not only did not want to get life--the kind of life the Creator offers, nor were they willing to follow the path leading to everlasting life. He said they would not get everlasting life. He was correct. Would you also say he was "brutal"? Argall Family wrote: > I think I'm somewhere up the tree on this one, maybe near the limb where > Anita says she is. > > I am uneasy about the word 'truth' as it seems to lead to trouble. John said > truth is absolute. That is really a self-definition by a very assertive > little word, a word given weight especially, probably almost universally, by > its use by mothers. > > There may be facts, there are probably, more truthfully [;-)], good > hypotheses and useful assumptions. Going beyond that is where science gets > itself into trouble and seeks the authority of religion. Religious truth is > assertion based on faith, not testable. the problem with some semitic > monotheistic religions (including fundamentalist Christianity) is that the > logic follows, for the believer, that if something is divine and inescapable > truth, it obliterates other possible views and for some people, that > produces an obligation to coerce universal acceptance of such 'truth'. > > Salman Rushdie, in 'Satanic Verses' really upset some people when, after a > conversation between Mohammed and the Angel Gabriel up a tree in the desert, > M being given different advice from some earlier advice from G, M thanks G > and Gabriel replies: "Well, just remember that all you got from me was what > you wanted to hear in the first place." The opposite of belief is not > disbelief, Rushdie remarks, but doubt. > > The problem in the current dialogue is that those who believe and those who > doubt follow quite different ways of addressing issues. Anita says: > > "... most of us have also had the experience of neutral and open > mind whereupon we go about searching for an answer that is > satisfactory, and, at least at the outset, the outcome is uncertain. > After searching, questioning, and probing, we may all find different > answers to what seemed like the same question originally." > > Having been brought up as a fundamentalist Christian I have to say Anita > that the 'most of us' glosses over the fact that a whole raft of people are > not among these 'most' and that there is a severe clash of minds. > > Training as an anthropologist, and life spent on four continents, has made > it evident to me that it is a general characteristic of our species to > establish mystical explanations to achieve certainty, remove doubt and avoid > the search; these diverse religious beliefs have meaning in each society in > providing supernatural reinforcement for conformist behaviour. In our > diverse society we have diverse beliefs and sanctions for a diversity of > moral conformities. In our secular society, science too often seeks > religious status by demanding conformity among its proponents, earlier > hypotheses become taught as dogma and 'truth' becomes false, the word > 'absolute' still applying to the demand for conformity. This is why in the > 'most scientific' country on the planet you (I speak as a foreigner with > affection for the US) have the only advance state in which there is a real > battle between science and creationist dogma - because science has taken on > the mantle of dogma itself. > > In broader political context - the higher sense of politics as a nation's > best ideals - one need only reflect upon the evolving nature of self-evident > truths such as the idea that all men are born equal, a stunning advance in > the 18th century, with its unperceived gender exclusion and assertion by > happy slave owners. Truth is not absolute, however self-evident. > > I think I prefer to keep this little word truth as a test for personal > behaviour, more than anything else, and I tend not to use it because I > prefer the word honest. Whether because of how I was raised, or because of > personal ethical values as an adult, or because professional experience pits > me against the folly of lying, where or whenever, I see no value in being > other than honest with people. > > Perhaps the truth is ;-) that Anita was a bit brutal, as is Bargyla, in > honestly stating their minds. > > But having expressed doubt about the first three words of the Anita quote > above, I concur with the rest of it, entirely. It is true that I have that > view. I doubt it's worth. Bit it's not worth the paper to argue whether the > statement is the 'truth'; too many will disagree, anyway. In the end, > language is everything, the vehicle and the meaning of all ideas and beliefs > (acknowledging that the most mysterious intellectual, emotional and physical > experiences acquire beauty often by being inexpressible, which for some > makes them spiritual, mystical or religious experiences). > > We need to be honest with each other, but we need to try to be gentle at the > same time. The problem, I acknowledge is that some will find some ideas, > however expressed, offensive to their own beliefs. That goes for what I have > said above too, I am sure. > > My own position with my own family makes this clear to me. I find their > fundamentalist faith deeply limiting and at times offensive in the > prejudiced views sometimes imposed on me; they view me as a lost soul, also > something dangerous to be wiped off the benchtop or at least not invited > into the kitchen of their minds. And I would no more try to get Bargyla to > alter her views than I would seek to alter my 84 year old mother's views. > Some things are too hard, apart from anything else. > > On the internet, we diversely-opinioned folks are in an extraordinary > environment where I think we speak to each other with more candour than we > may elsewhere. > > My own view on the issue of organic farming and spirituality is that the > link has dangers. > > I believe it can and should be argued that modern organic farming can be > more scientific that modern scientific agriculture (exposing the word > science to review), to the extent that it takes into account broad > ecological processes, ignored in 'crop/pest/damn the soil' agriculture. I > read into some messages on the spiritual theme that it is spiritual to > respect the broader ecology. I think it's important to argue it first as > good sense. 'Spiritual' carries risks in that it may be a lightning rod to > divert energy from further probing thought, or some claim to ownership by > people who are 'spiritual'. (Most of our most cherished beliefs are claims > to status of one kind or another, be it as 'god's chosen' or some other > special status; Kosovo is cut from the grubby end of the same cloth.) > > My own perspective might be, were it religious, closer to some Asian > religions than the semitic religions that dominate the developed world. I > find it not demeaning, but uplifting, to remove from my mind notions of > being a chosen species or race or community. I find it useful to think that > we may have, as a species, developed a big front brain not for loftiness but > to cope, as an awkward mutant, without adequate hair, with the heat of the > African plains. And that thus the cognitive processes of which we are so > proud, and on which this message is based, arose because the front brain, > wonderful cooling device that it is, didn't have enough to do in cool > climates and the chilling gives rise to mystical states and hormonal > changes, especially where there are nutritional deficits. There have been > suggestions that body temperatures were higher some centuries ago. Certainly > there are arguments that extravagance of thought and dogmatic belief may be > characteristic of slightly low body temperature > http://www.mall-net.com/mcs/coldbody.html#Scale > > But I offer this as food for thought, not as truth. I feel it is more useful > to think and think provocatively rather than accept truths, scientific or > religious. > > Dennis > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Aug 28 23:16:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06189 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00086 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:28:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00072 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DigitalArk.ark.com (io5p33.ark.com [209.53.216.185]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with ESMTP id TAA27690 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:27:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199908290227.TAA27690@ark.com> From: "Ellen Rainwalker" To: Subject: Beneficial Insects Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:30:56 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2428 Hi folks - I am new to the list. I am an organic farmer up in British Columbia. I have heard that there are two bills HR1504 and S910 pending in the US Congress and Senate that are against biological controls, calling them "plant pests". Does anyone know anything about this? Ellen Rainwalker To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 01:54:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07949 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA28867 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:10:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from post1.fast.net (post1.fast.net [198.69.204.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28803 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gregbowm (maxtnt04-abe-91.fast.net [209.92.9.91]) by post1.fast.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA24462; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 01:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37C8A86B.7C4F@fast.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:26:35 -0400 From: Greg Bowman Reply-To: gbowman@fast.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: Kimberly.Stoner@po.state.ct.us Subject: RE: Growing fava beans over the winter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2429 On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Kim Stoner wrote: I am interested in growing fava beans over the winter in Connecticut = (USDA zone 6). I am growing them as a cover crop, but what I am = particularly interested in is growing a good crop of bean aphids and = lady beetles to use in my experiments next year. /snip/ Kim: Agway sells Fava Bean - Broad Windsor (320 seeds per pound!) I'll be planting soon done here in my part of Zone 6 from my five pound bag of '96 seed. I've grown them twice in the past three years and they survived winters of both light and heavy snow, with temps down to zero. They were planted in micro-plots of organic soil (compost-amended red clay-shale) in slow transition to Bio-Intensive--4x10 feet. Yes-I've had the aphids both years, but they don't seem to prevent good production or diminish the pod quality. I wasn't observant enough to check for lady beetles. Sorry. For biological efficiency, I know I should terminate the crop at blossoming (the cover crop book tells me so!), but I really enjoy the encouragement of early blooms and then amazing my friends with the size of the fava bean. Greg -- Greg Bowman - Indian Creek Community Farm - Harleysville PA Communicating for whole farms...for whole communities...for the whole world. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 13:17:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14968 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09313 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:36:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09299 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:36:42 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7LAIa14808 (4239) for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4fa5454f.24fabb36@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:35:02 EDT Subject: from Food safety net To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2430 WHY SO MANY FOLKS WANT ORGANIC FOOD Sunday, August 29, 1999 Los Angeles Times James F. Montgomery of Redondo Beach writes that he is extremely concerned about the safety of our food supply ["Organic Milk Pours Into Mainstream," July 24]. Unfortunately, the USDA and FDA, which should be protecting the public, are doing the opposite by allowing practices that have not been adequately studied to take place. Foods are produced with antibiotics, growth hormones, pesticides, herbicides and sewage sludge, and are genetically engineered and irradiated. These methods are neither safe nor sustainable. This is why many Americans have lost faith in the government to protect us and have embraced certified organic food and farmers. Dan Kegel of Los Angeles writes that in tobacco-industry-like fashion, cattlemen and dairy producers--and the Los Angeles Times, it seems--still deny there's any evidence that feeding antibiotics to cattle can cause harm to humans. Keeping our nation's food supply safe from antibiotic-resistant bacteria should be one of our top goals. Buying organic milk is one small way we can make our preferences known. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 13:18:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14980 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:33:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08622 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:33:13 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7TUSa07549 (4239) for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3adac1b4.24faba70@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:31:44 EDT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1258 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2431 On the subject of the CDC and organic food safety... After one of D. Avery's articles stating that there was a higher risk of food-borne illness from organically grown foods, I contacted the CDC to get a copy of the report. I wanted to see how the research was conducted. The CDC issued a statement that they have never conducted a study to evaluate the relative risk of organic vs. conventionally grown produce. So to my knowledge there is no REAL data on this subject.... Carolee Bull To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 15:31:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17218 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27831 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:53:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27821 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0345.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.90]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10081; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C882CF.76DFAD7F@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:46:08 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: richmo@indy.net CC: "Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp)" , "'Sustainable Agriculture List'" Subject: Re: Time out References: <9BDA45A9E96FD211AD7700104BC3404EAC08FF@10.248.CABI.ORG> <37C52298.E6D@indy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2432 We are being told to drop Scriptural subjects from this list. I am willing. As far as I know, I intended to reply to the one person who wrote to/about me. Maybe by mistake I hit the "reply to all". sorry about that, if I did. I am often so very tired when I do internet--remember I am 83 and still having to support myself totally with whatever I can do to keep up. so I get tired and make mistakes and am forgetting things I should remember. So, Andy et al, I apologize. but I think sometimes, even tho I reply to just the one person who writes me (or try to), someone else QUOTES ME and so the discussion escalates. I can't be held responsible when others quote me stuff I write to an individual. Also, this poor Mr. Molini clearly does not believe the Bible so should be pitied rather than criticized. As I keep reminding everyone, when Armageddon comes, NO ONE will ever again not know what is the real truth. So I am going to be extra careful that I reply to the PERSON WHO WRITES ME, and try to not hit the reply to all. Sorry if I did. ================= Rich Molini wrote: > Anton Doroszenko (TL, Fld Crp) wrote: > > > > I think your answer requires an apology to Bargyla. What an insult. Your > > knowledge of the Bible is pathetic. The Bible says nothing of the sort. Why > > comment on something you obviously know little or nothing about. We still > > say the sun 'rises' and 'sets' without questioning the scientific accuracy > > of that. It's not meant to be a scientific statement, but a commonplace > > description of what one sees. The Bible often does that, and so it should. > > > ANTON, > In yesterday's popular vernacular, you should "chill out". > I never said I possessed any biblical knowledge. I do not care to > fritter away my time on that matter. I have all along been commenting > only on the culture(s) which produced that great work of fiction (and I > will grant some suspect history). I see no real harm in your, BR, > Bluestem, etc beliefs, if you don't try to apply them to 1999. When you > make an attempt to validate, substantiate, or apply statements from a > document written that long ago, you run into some real logistical > nightmares unless you play the "faith" trump. > -- > Rich Molini > 2419 East 281st Street > Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 > http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 15:31:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17219 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27859 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:53:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27836 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0345.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.90]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10130; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C88321.9B22FDD6@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:47:30 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kimberly Stoner CC: Argall Family , sanet-mg Subject: Re: yellow ladybugs/comfrey References: <002401beefc2$27e89380$1568f6cd@kim> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2433 OK folks, she always has the right answers. Heed her. Kimberly Stoner wrote: > It is true that some lady beetles (or ladybugs or lady bird beetles or > coccinellids) are plant eaters. However, there are relatively few > herbivorous lady beetles in North America north of Mexico. Here in the > northeast, all we have are the Mexican bean beetle (feeding on bean leaves), > the squash beetle (feeding on squash and other cucurbit leaves and sometimes > on squash fruit), and one other beetle, Subcoccinella sp., which is newly > introduced and feeds on leaves of the wildflower/weed bouncing bet. I am > not sure that any of these occurs in British Columbia, where the person > lives who asked the question, and I wouldn't expect any of them to be likely > to feed on plums and berries. > Kim Stoner > -----Original Message----- > From: Argall Family > To: sanet-mg > Date: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 11:29 PM > Subject: RE: yellow ladybugs/comfrey > > >Some ladybirds [as we call them down here] are carnivores, some herbivores. > > > >The beneficial ones are the carnivores, devourers of aphids, etc. > > > >There is one herbivorous ladybird here [called the 28 spot] which is a > >problem with its taste for potato leaf and more. > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 15:31:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17217 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:31:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27747 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:52:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27728 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0345.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.90]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09527; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C8758F.B6AFFA7C@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:49:35 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: sanet-mg Subject: Re: yellow ladybugs/comfrey References: <000901beef71$9f113300$3c3325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2434 My, how interesting. Thanks for telling us. Too bad Lawrence Hills did not hear that before he died. I am always worried when I see it pop up. I now think I have all of it contained in a very large container. I sometimes just cut 6 big leaves and use in a sandwich. I even had someone make me a batch of comfrey cream, but I especially said I did NOT want any mineral oil in it. But this man cheated me, put it in anyway,used some other name in the label and it was not until I took it to a branch of the FDA that I found out that name was really mineral oil. So now I don't have any really good comfrey cream any more. The original comfrey cream I got from Mr Hills also was, I think, a cheat, as I suspect it was vaseline that he used. He also did not have the integrity I expect. So I am sorry I do not have any comfrey cream any more. That stuff--I suppose it is the allantoin in it--really truly does heal. Really works. Argall Family wrote: > Some ladybirds [as we call them down here] are carnivores, some herbivores. > > The beneficial ones are the carnivores, devourers of aphids, etc. > > There is one herbivorous ladybird here [called the 28 spot] which is a > problem with its taste for potato leaf and more. > > We have found this bug also likes comfrey leaves, and the availability of > lots of comfrey leaf allows its population to grow and it is then predated > sufficient to effectively eliminate its impact on the potatoes. > > So Bart, maybe comfrey is a weed as you suggest but: > - it has potential in pest management > - it is a good grass barrier > - being deep rooted it is a mineral miner and this adds to its value as a > compost accelerant > - under its broad leaves, the ground is cool and moist and provides habitat > for all sorts of creatures > - being deep rooted it is not a great competitor with the shallow roots of > young fruit trees > - it tends to die back early in drought weather and is not fiercely > competitive in times of water stress > - you can use its juice (containing alantoin), preferably from a piece of > root, the leaf being prickly, to deal with scratches in the field > > BUT it must not be chopped up by a cultivator, unless you want to become a > bulk supplier of comfrey leaf to a herbalist, as every root fragment will > grow. Not a problem if you don't use a rotary hoe. > > We put four bits of comfrey root around every fruit tree we plant, two or > three feet from the trunk. It's cheap, multipurpose and valuable. You do > need, through the summer, to hit the comfrey leaves, two or three feet high, > with a knife [I use a cane knife, which has a handy hook at the tip of the > back, very good for pulling mulch where you want it], every few weeks > through summer, chopping them up where they fall and pulling them away from > the trunk. > > As the trees mature and the canopy closes (in a close planted permaculture > orchard), and grass competition declines, the comfrey gives up. > > Dennis > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 15:31:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17227 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27791 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:53:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27771 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (pool0345.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.171.90]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09704; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C87AF1.6D561790@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:12:33 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Chambers CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Position Open @ Cal Poly's CRS References: <3.0.5.32.19990825205247.008aec10@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2435 I got completey fed up with Cal Poly when I got such ugly treatment from them, They did buy some of the books I reprinted, but when I asked about teaching my course there, long ago when I was driving weekly to classes all over California, they turned me down in such an ugly way. They said they were having such a course given by so and so--someone no one ever heard of, and of course that course did not have a text (mine being the only one anywhere) and it never became famous. A few years ago some new person there ordered the Primer from me, but when I said I had been shocked long ago by the way I was treated, he took offence and said, cancel the order. I never thought Cal Poly at either Pomona or Cal Poly was very good. I also checked their library. I always figured UC was much preferable. Fred Chambers wrote: > Hello again SA-folks, > > As I've written before, many months back, I lived, worked, and studied at > Cal Poly Pomona's John Lyle Center for Regenerative Studies. It is an > unique facility on the edge of LA County. You may be amazed by the > infrastructure: Dish-Sterling, PV's, wind turbine, 98% edible landscaping, > sustainable reclaimed water aquaculture & agriculture, and even a strawbale > greenhouse that doubles as a coolhouse in summer. But I fell in love with > it because of all the people. The community that grows out of the site is > truely magical. If you're up to the challenge of organic food production > on LA's urban fringe, this may be a job for you! > > I'm just passing the word, > Fred > ------------------------------ > > For Info Write To: armsurf@earthlink.net > > Cal Poly's Center for Regenerative Studies > http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~crs/ is seeking > qualified candidates for the position of Land > Technician. Candidates should have practical hands-on > skills in operating a food system based on > regenerative practices. CV's may be send to the Office > of the Director (909) 869-5188. > > Paul Sommers > Outreach Coordinator > > === > Paul Sommers > armsurf@earthlink.net > 760-944-8551 > __________________________________________________ > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 18:08:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19558 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:08:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20502 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:28:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20489 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.244.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.244]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10823; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990829142651.008377c0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:26:51 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: Re: Position Open @ Cal Poly's CRS In-Reply-To: <199908291854.OAA28071@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2436 Yep Bargyla, I earned my BS in biology from UCSD, but came to Cal Poly for the opportunity to study at CRS. (http://www.csupomona.edu/~crs/) This isn't a perfect world. I know that a few duds work at Cal Poly. The 1,477-acre campus must have thoudsands of employees. Let me remind you, Los Angeles is within the belly of the beast. I cannot apologize for them, but just try to get each one kicked out and replaced with someone better. The world is very much what we make of it. Until a few months ago, Cal Poly was planning to turn all the farmland into a golf course. The students fought it long and hard. Eventually, enough faculty were won over by the opposition, and the project was abandoned. It only happened because we took the initiative. Due to student pressure on other fronts, the Center for Regenerative Studies is under new management. The director is gone, replaced with an interim director. The assistant director is gone and replaced. This farm manager/land tech was the 3rd loafer. Now he's off to greener pastures. We need someone like you, an experienced firebrand who knows how to supply a year-round bioregional kitchen. Paul Sommers is a new faculty. He really seems like the kind of guy who can get the students thinking about their environmental impacts, petrochemical free agriculture, and their role in our future. I met him at the Food Security Conference at UCLA a couple years ago. Were you there? Perhaps you would be a good farm manager/land tech. The position works with the faculty and students to grow food for the kitchen, manage weeds, maintain the infrastructure, ensure integration of systems, and in short - run the farm. I would jump for the job, but I'm not available. I'm not quite done with my degree. I encourage you to apply. Yours, Fred >> For Info Write To: armsurf@earthlink.net >> >> Cal Poly's Center for Regenerative Studies >> http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~crs/ is seeking >> qualified candidates for the position of Land >> Technician. Candidates should have practical hands-on >> skills in operating a food system based on >> regenerative practices. CV's may be send to the Office >> of the Director (909) 869-5188. >> >> Paul Sommers >> Outreach Coordinator >> >> === >> Paul Sommers >> armsurf@earthlink.net >> 760-944-8551 >> __________________________________________________ >> Bargyla Rateaver says >I got completey fed up with Cal Poly when I got such ugly treatment from them, >They did buy some of the books I reprinted, but when I asked about teaching my >course there, long ago when I was driving weekly to classes all over >California, they turned me down in such an ugly way. They said they were having >such a course given by so and so--someone no one ever heard of, and of course >that course did not have a text (mine being the only one anywhere) and it never >became famous. > A few years ago some new person there ordered the Primer from me, but when I >said I had been shocked long ago by the way I was treated, he took offence and >said, cancel the order. > >I never thought Cal Poly at either Pomona or Cal Poly was very good. I also >checked their library. I always figured UC was much preferable. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 18:08:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19562 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20662 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:28:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20640 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.244.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.244]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11693; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990829133322.0082f820@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:33:22 -0700 To: Bargyla Rateaver From: Fred Chambers Subject: Re: Position Open @ Cal Poly's CRS Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <37C87AF1.6D561790@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990825205247.008aec10@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2437 Yep, I know that a lot of duds work at Cal Poly. I cannot apologize for them, but just try to get each one kicked out and replaced with someone better. The world is very much what we make of it. Until a few months ago, Cal Poly was planning to turn all the farmland into a golf course. The students fought it long and hard. Eventually, enough faculty were won over by the opposition, and the project was abandoned. It only hppened because we took the initiative. We kicked out the last administration of the Center for Regenerative Studies. The director is gone, and there's an interim director. The assistant director is gone, and there's a new assistant director. This farm manager/land tech was the 3rd loafer. Now he's off to greener pastures. We need someone like you. Paul Sommers is a new faculty, and I only know what he seems like. He really seems like the kind of guy who can get the students thinking about their environmental impacts, petrochemical free agriculture, and bioregionality. I met him at the Food Security Conference at UCLA a couple years ago. Were you there? Perhaps you would be a good farm manager/land tech. The position works with the faculty and students to grow food for the kitchen, manage weeds, maintain the infrastructure, ensure integration of systems, and in short - run the farm. I would jump for the job, but I'm not available. I'm just a student, and not quite done... I encourage you to apply. Yours, Fred >> >> For Info Write To: armsurf@earthlink.net >> >> Cal Poly's Center for Regenerative Studies >> http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~crs/ is seeking >> qualified candidates for the position of Land >> Technician. Candidates should have practical hands-on >> skills in operating a food system based on >> regenerative practices. CV's may be send to the Office >> of the Director (909) 869-5188. >> >> Paul Sommers >> Outreach Coordinator >> >> === >> Paul Sommers >> armsurf@earthlink.net >> 760-944-8551 >> __________________________________________________ >> FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Black Walnut Alliance is one of many campus and local groups encouraging Cal Poly to explore environmentally responsible uses of campus green spaces. Visit and post at: http://www.regen.org (BWA, SAFER, Regen site that kick's butt!) http://www.csupomona.edu/~vltenbrink/index.html (Victoria's Black Walnut Page) http://www.rokcircle.com (The Wilderness Forum) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Aug 29 19:56:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21633 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26220 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26204 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.32] (gl-ppp12.hevanet.com [204.119.60.32]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20830; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908292314.QAA20830@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:43:40 -0700 Subject: FW: New Green Pea Released From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Organic Gardening Discussion List Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2438 This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: New Green Pea Released Date: Fri, Aug 27, 1999, 4:48 AM STORY LEAD: Green Pixie--Not Just Another New Green Pea ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Hank Becker, (301) 504-1624, hbecker@asrr.arsusda.gov August 27, 1999 ----------- Scientists at the Agricultural Research Service have released their 12th new southern pea variety, Green Pixie. Green Pixie is the first green-cotyledon variety to yield small, delicate, cream-type green peas. Cotyledons, also known as the leaves of the embryo, account for most of the embryonic tissue inside the seed. Because of the green-cotyledon gene, Green Pixie peas can be harvested dry and still retain their fresh green color. Richard Fery and ARS colleagues in Charleston, S.C., developed Green Pixie for the frozen food industry. But the new variety can be grown and picked fresh by home gardeners in addition to being harvested as near-dry peas for food-processing uses. Seed of Green Pixie have been released to 10 commercial seed growers and food processing companies so they can multiply supplies. The new variety should be available to growers by fall 2000. The scientists developed Green Pixie over a nine-year period by crossbreeding the popular, small, white-colored White Acre peas with the light-olive colored, but larger Bettergreen peas. The scientists say Green Pixie can be used either to replace White Acre or to substitute for Bettergreen when grown to produce a blended pack of Bettergreen and White Acre peas. When harvested as dry peas and stored, Green Pixie makes an attractive dry pack. Dry peas can be restored to their fresh-harvest seed size and green color by soaking them in water for one hour and then blanching them in boiling water for three minutes. Dry pods of Green Pixie produce 16 peas in about 76 days. The dry peas resemble White Acre--100 weigh about 1/2 ounce--but they're much smaller than Bettergreen's. Breeder's seed will be maintained by ARS' U.S. Vegetable Laboratory in Charleston. Genetic material for developing new cultivars is available through the National Plant Germplasm System, maintained by ARS, USDA's chief scientific agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Richard L. Fery, ARS U.S. Vegetable Laboratory, Charleston, S.C., phone (843) 556-0840, fax (843) 763-7013, rfery@awod.com. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 03:33:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25879 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA00279 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 02:48:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00204 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 02:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04825 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:57:01 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Rominger on organics Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2439 Howdy, all-- In response to the recent queries about USDA Deputy Secretary Richard Rominger's attitudes toward organic and sustainable ag, you might want to check out the address he gave at the 19th Annual Ecological Farming Conference in Pacific Grove, CA, in January of '99. For an audiotape, order from this Web source: http://www.csa-efc.org/tapes99.html For a printed copy, pick up the Summer, 1999 (#6) issue of the Organic Farming Research Foundation's information bulletin. Ask for subscription/order information: research@ofrf.org Among his other comments, he said: "The growth and prosperity of the small farmer is a key aspect of organic farming. Like sustainable farming and farmers' demonstrated capacity to do right both by the environment and their own economics, it's an excellent reason why organic agriculture is an idea whose time as come. At its core, certifying products as organic is about choice--choice for American consumers and the opportunity for small farmers and ranchers to build a solid niche for themselves and expand their growing markets." He mostly talks about USDA programs that deal with organics. From my reading, he doesn't come across as "pro" or "con"--but that's not surprising. That's not his job. But he certainly doesn't sound like he's negating organics, or unaware of some of the key research, policy, and practice issues (from his agency's perspective). That could simply mean he has a good speechwriter. I don't mean that to sound cynical. Part of our job as sustainable and organic action-takers and vision-makers is to educate people within agencies, universities, and other institutions about why we do what we do--our vision, our actions, our beliefs. We can honk about "government" not being aware, or "the Land Grants" ignoring our concerns, but input into places of power has always required energy, focus, and creativity. Seems to me that taking common sense to high places is an intentional effort, not an automatic one. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 08:44:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28284 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:44:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:00:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27894 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp52.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.152]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id GAA13542 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 06:55:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003201bef2df$0e9001a0$984b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "SANET-mg" References: Subject: GE threatens US grain profits Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 06:59:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2440 NY times article: New trade threat to American Farmers: http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/082999sci-gm-consumers.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 10:04:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29166 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01871 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:22:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01808 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:24:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mary Gold To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: Jane Gates Subject: Biorhythms of plants CD Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:24:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2441 Hello Sanetters, We have recieved the following question here at the Alternative Farming Systems Information Center, and I have been unable to come up with any leads to help. Does anyone in the group know about the CD in question, or have experience working with biorhythms of plants? I would really appreciate any information. Thanks. Mary V. Gold Alternative Farming Systems Information Center National Agricultural Library, ARS, USDA 10301 Baltimore Ave., Room 304 Beltsville MD 20705-2351 phone: 301-504-6559 fax: 301-504-6409 e-mail: mgold@nal.usda.gov http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic MESSAGE SENT US: help! i am desperately looking for a cd that has the recorded sounds of biorhythms of plants that are arranged to make a sort of "music". i dont have any clue as to the name of the cd nor the name of the creator of the cd; in fact, the only reason that i know of this cd is that i had a friend who had claimed to own it.. unfortunately, i have lost contact with him... i am very interested in finding this cd...i know that with the lack of information that i have given you, the chances of my receiving help are very small, but any info that you may have would greatly interest me.. thank you for your time, To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 10:25:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29532 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:25:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06932 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:46:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06906 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:46:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.010E1CB8@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 9:45:34 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 30 Aug 99 09:45:28 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 30 Aug 99 09:45:10 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:45:09 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: ag and ethics (was Athority) CC: "Wilson, Dale" In-reply-to: <199908280510.BAA16283@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <92AE4774597@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2442 Dale wrote: > I think > most scientists are trying to work for the good of people. They want to do > good. Of course they (we) might be deceived by systemic evil. I would agree that most people *want* to do good, the question is whether they have a strong enough internal rudder to cut through the opposing currents. That experiment in the 50s that made ordinary people think that they were in charge of electrical shock applications in a human behavior study (though they didn't realize the study was of *them* and not the people they were "shocking") shows that seemingly good and "moral" people are capable of immense cruelty and "immoral" behavior. The purpose of that experiment was to understand what might have happened in Nazi Germany, and I'm quite convinced that the bulk of any population is susceptible to such evilness not because the people are inherently "bad" or that they do not desire "good," but because they are not strong enough in their own self-awereness and moral grounding. It takes unusual strength of character and courage to say "the buck stops here" in most of the morally ambiguous environments that are most often found in daily life. There are peer pressures, societal pressures, pressures from your boss, etc. Many times, the pressure is to do what you know to be *not* "good," or at least what you would know to be not good if you were to really challenge yourself about it. We're also all well equiped with the mechanism of denial which can make distinction of "good" and "not good" (or even "evil") quite fuzzy. Decision making is rarely black and white to the people who are in the middle of them, and sometimes all it takes is a little denial and self-deception to tip the balance. I may think that it's perfectly clear that building a nuclear bomb or working in a weapons-grade plutonium factory (or developing more agrochemicals) is patently evil, but people who are actually in these professions may not see the alternative as much better due to issues of professional reputation and prestige (a PhD in nuclear physics, say), fear of unemployment and poverty, fear of social isolation, and on and on. I would venture to say that LOTS AND LOTS of people are employed doing things they don't enjoy and don't feel right doing (and therefore making a dubious moral decision becomes just one more bad decision) and even more people don't even THINK about what their passions, interests, beliefs, and moral boundaries are or where they lie. In such an environment, it is not enough to say that chemists, agronomists, politicians, nuclear physisits or whoever are "Christian" (which is usually more a reference to church attendence or a self-proclaimed lable which may not have much to do with a persons committment to a Christ-like life) or that they desire to do "good." That is just not enough. Much more is required. There may indeed be people who think that they can do *good* through agro-chemicals, GMOs, and the like, but I think that the criticism is that not enough people in these industries are actually paying any attention to the moral ramifications of their work. I'd say it's a pretty valid criticism, since I would guess that most people at some point make a trade off of scrutinizing their work for moral content in favor of getting a paycheck which allows them to do all the other things they desire to do in thier lives. Do you think that a burger flipper at McFood questions the significance or morality of his job? Does the architect who designs golf courses think about the effect this has on chemical runoff? Does the real estate broker think about what it means to sell a piece of wild or agricutural land for a strip mall or a casino? Does the person selling the land? Does the fisherman think about his participation in the overfishing of the marine resources? Dale, why should the people you work with be any different? The desire to do good and the committment to do it even in the face of difficulty and adversity are quite different. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 10:28:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29586 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08514 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:52:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08487 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA00728; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:17:11 GMT Message-ID: <37CA8454.4E01D37A@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:17:09 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: religion on sanet Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6C8B050297A17E55F923F712" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2443 --------------6C8B050297A17E55F923F712 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----------------------------------------------------- Dan, > ...many on this list who are going to groan at the sight of > yet another post dealing with the religion question, but I > can't help myself. Yeah, I can't either. But hey, if people don't like it, they can hit delete now! ------------------------------------------------------ Man, I can't believe the arrogance of some people. Really guys, this isn't a religious forum, its about agriculture. Wouldn't it be more polite if you were to exchange personal email to talk about religion, or go to a group dedicated to that subject? Why clutter up this forum with unrelated discussion? Son of Richard --------------6C8B050297A17E55F923F712 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----------------------------------------------------
    Dan,

    > ...many on this list who are going to groan at the sight of
    > yet another post dealing with the religion question, but I
    > can't help myself.

    Yeah, I can't either.  But hey, if people don't like it, they can hit delete
    now!
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Man, I can't believe the arrogance of some people.

    Really guys, this isn't a religious forum, its about agriculture.  Wouldn't it be more polite if you were to exchange personal email to talk about religion, or go to a group dedicated to that subject?   Why clutter up this forum with unrelated discussion?

    Son of Richard
     
      --------------6C8B050297A17E55F923F712-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 11:21:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00986 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22188 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:26:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22114 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:26:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA28475; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:25:46 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma027919; Mon, 30 Aug 99 09:25:27 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:25:28 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:25:27 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEC7@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'mike richardson'" Subject: RE: religion on sanet Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:25:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2444 Mike, > Man, I can't believe the arrogance of some people. > Really guys, this isn't a religious forum, its about > agriculture. Wouldn't it be more polite if you were to > exchange personal email to talk about religion, or go to > a group dedicated to that subject? Yeah, you are right, sorry. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 11:53:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02709 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05038 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:57:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hpamgaad.compuserve.com (mailgate@ah-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.158]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04998 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaad.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id KAA10059 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:55:46 -0400 From: Tom Green Subject: Lost consumer survey references To: Sanet posting Message-ID: <199908301055_MC2-82E2-C0F3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA05017 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2445 Here are some refs: Govindasamy, R., J. Italia and J. Rabin. 1998. Consumer Response and Perceptions of Integrated Pest Management Produce. NJ Agricultural Experiment Station Publication P-02137-5-98, 45 pp. Govindasamy, R., J. Italia and J. Rabin. 1997. Consumer Response to Integrated Pest Management and Organic Agriculture: An Econometric Analysis. NJ Agricultural Experiment Station Publication P-02137-2-97, 45 pp. Above two are available on the web at: http://aesop.rutgers.edu/~agecon/agmkt.htm Hartman Group. 1996. The Hartman Report Phase I. Food and the Environment: A Consumer's Perspective. The Hartman Group, 10422 SE 14th St, Bellevue, WA 98004. Also, info below about an upcoming conference on this topic: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE #### CONFERENCE SET ON ENVIRONMENTAL MARKETING How concerned are your customers about the environmental impacts of your production practices? How can you effectively communicate your efforts to reduce these impacts? What market advantages are available to companies that deliver environmental benefits to consumers? More than 50% of consumers indicate a preference for goods produced in an environmentally sound manner. The organic market is currently $5 billion dollars, growing 20% annually, and now includes marketing giants such as Quaker Oats and General Mills. Products identified with other eco-labels and environmental standards, including ISO 14001, are also experiencing double digit sales growth in domestic and international markets. Are you prepared to turn this challenge into an opportunity for your organization? At this conference, you will discuss these issues with national experts and industry leaders, including Harvey Hartman, a consultant advising senior management of Fortune 500 companies on environmental and marketing strategies; Katherine DiMatteo, Executive Director of the Organic Trade Association, representing over 1000 members; Mark Retzloff, Senior Vice President of Horizon Organic Dairy, the largest organic brand with over $57 million in annual sales; Daniel Burke, President of Pacific Soybean and Grain, an international supplier of identity-preserved grains; and Ron Lautrup, National Commodities Manager, United Natural Foods, the largest natural foods distributor in the U.S., with $729 million in sales and 73% growth in 1998. "Adding Value through Environmental Marketing: Opportunities for Food Producers, Processors and Retailers" with special focus on production, marketing and distribution of field crops, meat and dairy products will be held December 6-7, 1999, at the Edgewater Hotel in Madison, Wisconsin. Attendance is limited to the first 160 registrants. For more information, contact the IPM Institute of North America, 1914 Rowley Ave., Madison, WI 53705, (608) 232-1528, Fax (608) 232-1530, E-mail , or visit the web site at . #### ****************************** Thomas A. Green, Ph.D. IPM Works 1914 Rowley Ave Madison WI 53705 608 232-1528 608 232-1530 (fax) tagreen@compuserve.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 12:16:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03054 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08660 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:13:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web602.mail.yahoo.com (web602.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA08626 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990830151208.25190.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web602.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:12:08 PDT Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:12:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: NYTimes on the Web To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2446 This was forwarded to me by a friend and appeared August 29, 1999 under the National Science/Health section on the NY Times Website. We do have many farmers who will be caught in the middle on this one. kate By MELODY PETERSEN WASHINGTON -- American farmers paid premium prices this spring to sow many of their fields with genetically engineered corn and soybeans, but now as the fall harvest nears, more of the international buyers they depend upon are saying they do not want those crops. Consumers and food companies in a growing number of countries are shunning the new crops created by genetic engineers at such companies as Monsanto, DuPont and Novartis. Foreign consumers say they do not wish to eat the new foods like corn that have been altered to produce their own pesticide, and some companies are reacting quickly to consumers' desires even though no clear evidence exists that the crops are unsafe. This week in Japan, for example, the Kirin Brewery Company announced that starting in 2001 it would use only corn that has not been genetically engineered. While bowing to customers' concerns, Kirin made clear that it did not think the products were unhealthy. A day later, Kirin's competitor, Sapporo Breweries, announced that it, too, would revert to traditional corn, which is an ingredient in some types of beer. The biotechnology industry plays down the recent decisions of some food companies, saying they are overreacting to threats that aren't real. Most consumers, the industry says, do not mind these new products. Until a few months ago, opposition to genetically altered foods was largely confined to Europe, and trade officials in the United States have been battling the European Union, which has stopped buying all American corn. But this summer, the Clinton Administration's efforts have grown increasingly urgent, in an attempt to contain the aversion to these crops that is leaping from continent to continent. Japan, which now wants mandatory labeling of gene-altered products, is the largest importer of American crops, and Mexico, whose top producer of corn flour for tortillas is avoiding altered grain, is the second largest importer of American corn. "This is a very significant trade threat," said Peter Scher, who directs the agricultural negotiations for the United States Trade Representative's Office. "The only thing I can tell farmers is that we are doing everything we can to sell their products overseas." About a third of American crops, including soybeans and corn, are exported. This year, American farmers planted an estimated 60 million acres (the size of the United Kingdom) with genetically engineered corn and soybean seeds, accounting for nearly half of all soybeans in the United States and about a third of all corn. Most farmers still expect that they will find a market for much of this year's corn and soybean crops, industry officials say. But they have already been told that seven varieties of gene-altered corn, representing about 5 percent of the expected harvest, will be rejected by corn exporters. Most of that will be ground into animal feed. Next year's harvest looms as more troublesome, with public sentiment changing, foreign markets shrinking and the agriculture industry struggling to adjust. For the first time this summer, many corn growers are dealing with costly new issues. Local grain elevator operators, who buy and store wagonloads of corn to sell to the exporters, have begun asking farmers to separate some types of gene-altered corn from ordinary corn to appease international buyers. Dennis Mitchell, a farmer in Houghton, S.D., has been an enthusiastic producer of gene-altered corn and planted 600 acres this spring, 80 percent of which is a crop altered to produce a toxin that kills the European corn borer. He boasts that the new seeds have increased his yield by at least 15 percent, and he has received assurances from local elevator operators that he will be able to sell his grain this year. But he is paying close attention to the tremors in the marketplace, especially now that American companies like Gerber and Heinz baby foods have announced that they will not use genetically altered corn or soy ingredients. And he is uncertain what he will do next year when spring planting season arrives. "I wish we could get this cleared up," he said. "I certainly can't raise anything I can't market." Such uncertainty only adds to the problems of American farmers, who point out that this year's crop prices are the lowest in more than a decade. "This is such a hard time for us, and then you compound that with this uncertainty," said Gary Goldberg, the chief executive of the American Corn Growers Association, a group that has been opposed to some practices of the biotechnology industry. It represents 14,000 independent farmers. "Farmers are going to get caught in the middle," he said. Clinton Administration officials have repeatedly assured consumers that all of the genetically engineered crops that have been approved in the United States are safe for people to eat. And, indeed, there is no compelling scientific evidence that shows the foods are unsafe. But the crops are so new that there is not enough evidence to prove the foods' safety to a minority of scientists who say further studies need to be done. Dan Glickman, the Secretary of Agriculture, said that the consumers' concerns seemed to be spreading like "an infectious disease." "This technology," he said, "got a little bit ahead of the politics." He and Federal trade officials have spent the summer pressing European leaders and agricultural ministers to reconsider what is essentially the European Union's moratorium on new types of gene-altered crops. They have threatened some countries with intercession by the World Trade Organization, arguing that restrictions on these foods run counter to the current science supporting their safety. Genetic engineering is a process in which scientists splice one organism's genes into another. For example, scientists created the pesticide-producing corn by inserting a gene from a bacterium. Most of the corn and soybeans have been altered to either produce their own pesticides or to be resistant to herbicides. The first gene-altered seeds were offered to farmers in 1996, and growers snatched them up, quickly making the new biotechnology into a multibillion-dollar business for the seed companies. The biotechnology companies say that the food companies are caving in to pressure from environmental advocates who have written letters saying that consumers do not want these products. "Consumers are turning away from these foods in enormously smaller numbers than the activists would have you believe," said L. Val Giddings, a vice president for food and agriculture at the Biotechnology Industry Organization, a trade group of more than 800 companies in Washington. Still, farmers and trade officials point to new problems. In Mexico, which bought $500 million of American corn last year, Grupo Maseca, the company that is the leading producer of corn flour, said recently that it would avoid importing genetically modified grain. The corn flour is made into tortillas, the Mexican staple. In South Korea, another large importer of American grain, corn-processing companies said they were considering buying corn from China instead of the United States because of concerns about the gene-altered crop. And, in Japan, the Government passed a law requiring food companies to label products that have been genetically engineered. (In the United States, Federal officials have only recently said they will consider voluntary labeling.) Preparing for awareness generated by the labeling in Japan, a subsidiary of the Honda Motor Company said this week that it would build a plant in the United States and hire farmers to supply it only with unaltered, conventional soybeans. The soybeans, which would be exported back to Japan, would be made into tofu. In the United States, where there has been little uproar over the foods, the baby food makers Gerber and H. J. Heinz were the first large food companies to reject the new products. Then Iams, the pet food company, said it would not buy the seven varieties of gene-altered corn that have not been approved by European regulators. Iams's announcement shut down an alternative route that farmers had for that corn that exporters will not accept. The agricultural industry has begun responding, with exporters trying to devise new methods to bridge the growing gap between farmers and consumers. A two-price system -- higher prices for conventional crops and lower prices for genetically-altered crops -- is clearly developing. For example, this year, the Archer Daniels Midland Company has been paying some farmers an extra 18 cents for each bushel of non-altered soybeans. The American Corn Growers Association, which represents mostly family farms, told its members last week that they should consider planting only conventional seeds next spring, unless a host of questions can be answered, including whether the United States will be able to export the genetically altered crops. The National Corn Growers Association, which is about twice as big as the American Corn Growers Association, and has a financial partnership with Monsanto and some of the other agricultural companies, has not followed suit. Susan Keith, the group's senior director for public policy, said that the association, which is based in St. Louis, was keeping farmers informed of what types of genetically altered corn could be the hardest to sell, but had not suggested that they consider planting only conventional seeds. The worries about international trade have deepened farmers' fears of a bleaker economic future. Prices for most crops are the lowest in 10 years, and farmers say they are concerned that grain prices are falling even further now that foreign consumers are turning away from genetically altered crops. But experts say prices have mostly been affected by the larger harvests in other countries, which have reduced the demand for grain from the United States. In addition, the financial crisis in Asia caused exports to fall last year and prices to drop. And overproduction of some crops continues to hurt prices. For now, uncertainty about the next planting season is bedeviling the nation's farmers. They cannot predict where the next food backlash will surface and sometimes, even if they do, it is too late. "It wasn't until May that farmers got word that Europe had not approved certain kinds of corn," Goldberg said. "By then, the corn was in the ground." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 12:18:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03074 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10446 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:21:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10415 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] (empmac.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.48]) by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04226; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908290227.TAA27690@ark.com> References: <199908290227.TAA27690@ark.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:21:34 -0700 To: "Ellen Rainwalker" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: Re: Beneficial Insects Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2447 >Hi folks - I am new to the list. I am an organic farmer up in British >Columbia. I have heard that there are two bills HR1504 and S910 pending in >the US Congress and Senate that are against biological controls, calling >them "plant pests". Does anyone know anything about this? > >Ellen Rainwalker There is a mailing list called BCREGS devoted to discussion of these kinds of issues. I haven't seen any mention of these bills, but it would be a good place to post your inquiry. If you want to join the list, sending a one-line e-mail message (with no "subject") to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU The one line should read: SUBSCRIBE BCREGS-L Jane Doe ....where Jane Doe is your real name. The system will automatically retreive your e-mail address......so do not put anything else in the body of the message other than this one line. **************************************** Kathy Brunetti, Senior Land and Water Analyst California Department of Pesticide Regulation 830 K Street, Sacramento, California, USA 95814 voice (916) 324-4100, FAX (916) 324-4088 Our Web site: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 12:26:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03254 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12300 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:30:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12265 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn84tc4.gdinet.com [156.46.27.213]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09672 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:29:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:29:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908301529.KAA09672@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: A Day in the Life...of a Seed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2448 It was a good day last Sunday, a day to do one of my favorite chores... planting the cover crop. It's one of the tasks I look forward to as I know it does good for the land. It helps heal and preserve the soil that is so valuable. We plant cover crop the old fashioned way, by hand, with a hand crank/over the shoulder canvas bag. It's hard work, striding up and down the fields, in the soft loose soils, turning the crank and watching the seed fly. There's no need to go to the gym after a day of planting the cover crops, one receives plenty of exercise walking in the soft loose soil. A ten acre field takes some six miles of strenuous walking. I like planting the cover crop seed. I like the smell of the fresh soil as my feet sink in the soft Earth. I like the strain of walking in that fresh Earth, the way it makes my heart pound and my lungs strain. It's good to get a work-out doing something I enjoy and knowing the Earth benefits from. It makes me hopeful to think of the plants that will rise up out of the fields from last Sunday's planting. Choosing cover crop seed is a matter of holistic consideration. We need to decide what it is our crop to do. Should it hold the soil in place over winter? Should it soak up excess nitrogen? Should it produce nitrogen? Will we want it to suppress weed growth in spring or fall, or seed germination next spring? Maybe it should winter kill and leave a decaying bed of mulch to plant through next spring. The pigs will want their pasture full of tasty nutritious treats by early summer. And the wild things will need to be taken into consideration too. After deciding what it is our cover crop is to do, we choose the best species for the job. Then, finally we get to mix the seed. This is the best part, pouring the seed into the our biggest garden cart, specie by specie, getting them ready to mix together. I like all the different shapes and sizes of the seed, and the color. The different seed types make a mosaic of colors and textures unequaled. But most of all I like the way they feel...the way the seed flows through your hands as you start the mixing process. They flow, like water through your fingers. And they always feel cool, even on the hottest days. I think it's their life force that makes them feel so good. It gives me goose bumples just to think of it. There's a lot of life in that garden cart, and it's that caress of life that I look forward to this time of year. It started to rain as I put the tractor away after disking the seed in. It was a long easy rain that lasted three days. That rain nurtured the life force in those seeds, and now, a week later, the fields are covered with a carpet of green growing seedlings. Life is strong in those seedlings and I hpoe that force be with us always. >From the Farm, Greg To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 12:26:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03260 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14463 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:37:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14386 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id PAA01045; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:02:24 GMT Message-ID: <37CA9CFF.C3278536@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:02:24 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: trying to comply with NRCS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2449 NRCS does not have regulatory powers, therefore cannot impose fines on dairy producers whose facilities do not meet NRCS specifications. However, if the animals wastes from the dairy are polluting or have the potential to pollute waters of the state then there are state agencies that can impose restrictions, fines, etc. NRCS will provide technical assistance to landusers to bring their waste handling systems up to par, and there could even be financial assistance through EQIP and/or state programs that will help considerably with the high cost of such facilities. However, if the farmer has already received an official order to "clean up or get out," then it might be difficult or impossible to get cost-share funding approved. If that is the case then NRCS can only offer technical assistance. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 12:47:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03541 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24779 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:59:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24765 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.190] (st-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.190]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09295; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908301558.IAA09295@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 06:42:11 -0700 Subject: FW: Nematodes Online From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY , Viticulture Mailgroup Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2450 This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504- 1648. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Nematodes Online Date: Mon, Aug 30, 1999, 4:31 AM STORY LEAD: Online Information to Help Identify and Track $100 Billion Worm Pests ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Hank Becker, (301) 504-1624, hbecker@asrr.arsusda.gov August 30, 1999 ----------- An online database of microscopic worms that cause $100 billion in damage worldwide is now available on the World Wide Web. The USDA Nematode Collection, one of the world's largest and most valuable archives of these microscopic worms, contains information on thousands of species of nematodes that infect nearly every agronomic and horticultural plant important to agriculture. In the United States alone, plant parasitic nematodes cause annual economic losses estimated at nearly $10 billion from decreased food, fiber and ornamental production. Scientists at the Agricultural Research Service say their new searchable database will make it easier for scientists anywhere to identify and track these destructive pests. The search page can be found at: http://www.nem.barc.usda.gov/database/search.cfm The web site makes the USDA Nematode Collection more accessible to U.S. and foreign scientists and others ranging from quarantine officials to students doing science projects. Established by retired ARS nematologist A. Morgan Golden in 1960, the collection is a valuable asset for furthering scientific knowledge of the tiny worms. It is maintained at the ARS Nematology Laboratory in Beltsville, Md. The collection holds more than 34,000 permanent slides and vials and 19,500 species entries. Samples were gathered from 180 countries by some 3,000 collectors. The records in the database represent 555 nematode genera and 1,670 species on 800 plant hosts. In addition, 180 insect hosts are represented by specimens in the collection. Most nematodes feed on bacteria, fungi and other soil organisms. Others are parasitic, obtaining their food from animals (like the dog heartworm), humans (like the pinworm) or plants. The plant parasites cause yield losses by feeding or by transmitting disease-causing viruses, fungi and bacteria. The website offers other resources including hot links to nematology societies and university collection sites. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific agency. ---------- Scientific contacts: Zafar A. Handoo and Donna Ellington, ARS Nematology Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-5660, fax (301) 504-6666, nematax@asrr.arsusda.gov and delling@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504- 1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Aug 30 12:20:05 1999 -0400 Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03091 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:20:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-7.ofrf.org (ofrf7.tychonet.com [205.179.36.7]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id JAA25672 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jane@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990830090514.009675d0@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: jane2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:06:57 -0700 To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." From: Jane Sooby Subject: Re: OCIA In-Reply-To: References: <19990827192658674.AAA84@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.21]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2451 Dear Lawrence, >From OFRF's National Organic Certifiers Directory (Sept. 1998): OCIA #1 Pattie White 1842 S. Charleston Rd. Darlington, SC 29532 803-395-0793 number of growers: 8 Best, Jane Sooby technical program coordinator Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-426-6606 831-426-6670 fax 831-460-9713 home www.ofrf.org jane@ofrf.org From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 14:14:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05727 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25824 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25807 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04828; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA25190; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:23:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:23:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Mary Gold cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Jane Gates Subject: Re: Biorhythms of plants CD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2452 On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Mary Gold wrote: > We have recieved the following question here at the Alternative Farming > Systems Information Center, and I have been unable to come up with any leads > to help. Does anyone in the group know about the CD in question, or have > experience working with biorhythms of plants? I would really appreciate any > information. > > MESSAGE SENT US: help! i am desperately looking for a cd that has the > recorded sounds of biorhythms of plants that are arranged to make a sort of > "music". i dont have any clue as to the name of the cd nor the name of the > creator of the cd; in fact, the only reason that i know of this cd is that > i had a friend who had claimed to own it.. unfortunately, i have lost > contact with him... i am very interested in finding this cd...i know that > with the lack of information that i have given you, the chances > of my receiving help are very small, but any info that you may have would > greatly interest me.. thank you for your time, A Japanese researcher has invented and is now marketing a device that measures micro voltage changes in plants in response to people in varying degrees of proximity to the plants. It translates these voltage changes into 1) flashes of light 2) sound - can't remember which. I'm racking my brain to remember where I read about this, on the Web or in this month's issue of some magazine. Anyway, this was announced within the past week or two. This may have been the device used to collect the sounds used on the CD. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 15:04:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06898 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10279 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:00:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA10263 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id MAA08948; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:59:44 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma007516; Mon, 30 Aug 99 12:58:41 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:58:44 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:58:41 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FECA@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Anita Graf (Staff)'" Subject: RE: ag and ethics (was Athority) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:58:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2453 Anita, >> I think most scientists are trying to work for the good >> of people. They want to do good. Of course they (we) >> might be deceived by systemic evil. > I would agree that most people *want* to do good, the question is > whether they have a strong enough internal rudder to cut through the > opposing currents. Internal rudders don't appear to be very reliable. IMO, the answer is immersion in nature, including science, and a healthy distrust of authority. I don't see a lot of evidence that going deeper and deeper into one's mind to get in touch with "deep feelings" is very productive. > ...shows that seemingly good and "moral" people are capable of > immense cruelty and "immoral" behavior. The purpose of that > experiment was to understand what might have happened in Nazi > Germany, and I'm quite convinced that the bulk of any population > is susceptible to such evilness not because the people are > inherently "bad" or that they do not desire "good," but because > they are not strong enough in their own self-awereness and moral > grounding. I am not sure Nazism is a clear example. The question being debated in historical circles is: to what extent did the long-term culture of antisemitism condition ordinary Germans to cheerfully participate in unspeakable acts, as opposed to coercion by charismatic authority. See Goldhagen "Hitlers Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" versus Finklestein "A Nation on Trial: The Goldhagen Thesis and Historical Truth." The matter seems to have become very politicized, but the truth is probably intermediate. > It takes unusual strength of character and courage to say "the > buck stops here" in most of the morally ambiguous environments > that are most often found in daily life. In my gut, I completely agree with you. But you know, German soldiers with weak stomachs had to try hard and summon strength of character to shoot so many people in the back of the head, to do their civic duty (Goldhagen's spin, anyhow). So, what does this analogy have to do with environmentalism? Do people exploit nature because of long term culture (some would say instinct), or because they are being actively tricked and subverted by an evil system? I get the feeling that most (left-leaning) activists think that people are intrinsically good, but are deceived and ensnared by an evil system. On the other hand, "deep ecologists" feel that more intrinsic ethical values are the problem. > There are peer pressures, societal pressures, pressures from > your boss, etc. Many times, the pressure is to do what you > know to be *not* "good," or at least what you would know to be > not good if you were to really challenge yourself about it. I don't think this really manifests itself in clear-cut ethical terms, generally speaking. I have felt such pressures regarding scientific details and interpretation. I have never been asked to do anything I thought was morally wrong. > We're also all well equiped with the mechanism of denial > which can make distinction of "good" and "not good" (or > even "evil") quite fuzzy. Decision making is rarely black > and white to the people who are in the middle of them... You are ignoring the more basic question of defining good versus evil in a particular case. You think that people who disagree with you must be "in denial." You are starting with the assumption that your moral compass is the correct one, and that people who don't live up to your moral standards are suffering from an internal failing or inconsistency. > I may think that it's perfectly clear that building a nuclear > bomb or working in a weapons-grade plutonium factory (or developing > more agrochemicals) is patently evil, but people who are actually > in these professions may not see the alternative as much better > due to issues of professional reputation and prestige...fear of > unemployment and poverty, fear of social isolation, and on and on. I think that is presumptuous of you. In other words, when people fail to abide by the ethical standards you have concocted, it is because they are too weak to resist. They are wooed by the rewards of their career. Did it occur to you that they may simply disagree about what is good? > would venture to say that LOTS AND LOTS of people are employed > doing things they don't enjoy and don't feel right doing... I really doubt it. It looks to me like the social systems we have going (including corporations) are in approximate congruence with the ethical norms of most people. > In such an environment, it is not enough to say that chemists, > agronomists, politicians, nuclear physisits or whoever are > "Christian"... or that they desire to do "good." That is just > not enough. I can tell you feel deeply about this. But I think you really want people to conform to your values and the values of your social group. These seem to diverge from societal norms. > I think that the criticism is that not enough people in these > industries are actually paying any attention to the moral > ramifications of their work. This occurs on an informal basis, at least in my department. > I would guess that most people at some point make a trade off of > scrutinizing their work for moral content in favor of getting a > paycheck which allows them to do all the other things they desire > to do in thier lives. I don't think people consciously do this, but it probably occurs at some level for some people. > Do you think that a burger flipper at McFood questions the > significance or morality of his job? Does the architect who > designs golf courses think about the effect this has on > chemical runoff? Does the real estate broker think about > what it means to sell a piece of wild or agricutural land for > a strip mall or a casino? Does the person selling the land? I am sure they do sometimes, but probably their values are different from yours. I think that many people don't care that much about wild nature, for example. > Dale, why should the people you work with be any different? > The desire to do good and the committment to do it even in > the face of difficulty and adversity are quite different. I feel insulted by your assumption that my associates and I are not consistent or upright enough to stand against the force of peer pressure, or that we love the material pleasures of this life so much that we do things that are obviously wrong. I think our differences lie in ethical norms. I think your norms are informed by an organicist interpretation of nature, that puts a lot of stock in "being natural." I also don't think you realize how influenced you are by the academic left in your vision of the corporation as an evil cultural element. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 15:21:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07136 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12979 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:11:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12928 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp131.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.131]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 50F1A6176C; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003a01bef311$00658780$839144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , References: Subject: Re: Federal bills Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:56:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2454 last time they had public input on this there were a lot of good responses hope they saved them all. my problem is that if we argue for beneficials and win they will use that to release genetically engineered life under the guise of and on the coat tails of beneficial insects. saying of course they are the same as not genetically engineered life. it seem every time they want to talk about something it is because they want something. the old way of releasing beneficial really worked out here in Ca. we have got rid of a lot of pests for real like the citrus scale etc. it use to be colleges were into biological control heavy back then and it was working but then chemistry and bio engineering took over . we know living pest controls works but watch out because genetically engineered stuff is ready to go on line and they need the biocontrols to piggy back on. IMHO yes to research on natural predators ,etc and no to genetically engineered life controls. you know a lacewing can travel 8 miles in the larva state how u going to keep them off organic farms that can't use stuff that has had their dna .altered in the lab . we have been using biocontrols in Ca." Natural biological control" for years and I have not heard of one bad thing, I say we should do more with biology and less with chemistry but that's not where the money is. watch out you may be arguing for GMOs and not even know it. check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathy Brunetti To: Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 8:12 AM Subject: Federal bills > This was posted to sanet, the sustainable ag. listserv. Does anyone > have information about these bills? > > At 7:30 PM -0700 8/28/99, Ellen Rainwalker wrote: > >Hi folks - I am new to the list. I am an organic farmer up in British > >Columbia. I have heard that there are two bills HR1504 and S910 > >pending in the US Congress and Senate that are against biological > >controls, calling them "plant pests". Does anyone know anything > >about this? > > **************************************** > Kathy Brunetti, Senior Land and Water Analyst > California Department of Pesticide Regulation > 830 K Street, Sacramento, California, USA 95814 > voice (916) 324-4100, FAX (916) 324-4088 > > Our Web site: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 15:25:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07185 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15573 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:22:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA15504 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:22:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.41] [199.175.106.62] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11LW3C-0006eUC for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:21:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:23:30 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: religion Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2455 Son of Richard, If you are involved with organic/natural/sustainbable agriculture or production of food and are not aware of the spiritual connections of individuals with the earth, you are missing something very important in your life. That spiritual relationship can be expressed in many ways. If I want respect for my views I, of course, have to respect others. I forget where this all started but I believe if a few peoplehad let slide a comment Bargyla's it would have never taken place. We often learn a great deal from those we disagree with most. Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 15:33:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07295 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25046 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:39:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25039 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23752; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:38:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Wilson, Dale" , Cc: "'Anita Graf (Staff)'" Subject: RE: ag and ethics (was Athority) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:25:55 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FECA@vela.phibred.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2456 The exchange between Dale and Anita seems to be about values, good and evil, whether scientists and corporate employees have sufficient or a different moral compass, and Dale's assertion that Anita is unwittingly influenced by "left academics." I'm reminded of a conversation in Yes magazine between Paul Hawkin and David Korten. They both served as consultants or advisors to Monsanto's sustainability task force, and they both concluded that it was a waste of time because, regardless of the personal commitments of individuals at all levels of Monsanto, the actual behavior of Monsanto, as a corporation, is inimical to sustainability. That's a gross generalization, of course, but I'd argue that it's fundamentally accurate. Dale, your definition of sustainability seems to rest on preservation of "wild nature." That seems to me to be an extremely narrow conflation of the concept. You also suggest to Anita that she is ignoring the relativism of ethics and thereby trying to impose her values on others. Doesn't it seem that there is some universality to this, that the survival of our planet is ultimately at stake. I agree with Daly's observations that our species is living beyond our means, and Daly points to the neo-classical paradigm of economics as the root "mental model" that allows us to rationalize these unsustainable systemic behaviors. So I'd argue that this debate is not so much about ethics as about sustainability, which is a concept in which ethics play a role along with economics, ecology, sociology, political science, etc.. And I'd always argue the case for there being an "objective reality" independent of each of our points of view. Good responsible people can believe they are acting ethically but still be contributing to ecologic or social dysfunction. Am I duped by material dialectics? The goal seems to me to reform our social system in such a way that rational choice by individuals will contribute to collective sustainability. Right now, it doesn't matter very much in the larger scheme of things if I live 20 minutes out of town on a little farm, commuting to work every day, and flying my 50,000+ Gold Medallion miles to meetings on sustainability. Individual rationality, collective irrationality. Somehow or other a combination of taxes, incentives, new technologies, and new opportunities for both living and working need to influence my individual choices so they make collective sense. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 16:03:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07891 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06036 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05970 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp131.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.131]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D76CA61770; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006501bef318$7ef36e80$839144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Jan" , , Subject: Fw: Re: Federal bills Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:50:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2457 check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Federal bills > See the information below for HR1504 and S910. > > Jim > > ****************** > HR1504 > > TABLE OF CONTENTS: > > Title I: Plant Protection > Title II: Inspection and Enforcement > Title III: Miscellaneous Provisions > Title IV: Authorization of Appropriations > > Plant Protection Act - Title I: Plant Protection - Prohibits a person > from importing, exporting, or moving in interstate commerce an > authorized plant pest. Authorizes the Secretary of Agriculture to > permit such introduction or movement. Prohibits the unauthorized > mailing, and knowing delivery by a mail carrier, of plant pests. > > (Sec. 102) Authorizes the Secretary to restrict the importation, > movement, and means of conveyance of plants, plant products, > biological control organisms, plant pests, and noxious weeds in order > to prevent their U.S. introduction and interstate movement. > > Authorizes: (1) the Secretary to publish lists of noxious weeds and > biological control agents; and (2) private petitions to add or remove > listings. > > (Sec. 103) Directs the Secretary of the Treasury to notify the > Secretary of such articles' arrival, and hold them at the port of > entry until inspected and authorized for U.S. movement by the > Secretary. Prohibits a person from moving unauthorized and uninspected > articles from a port of entry or interstate. > > (Sec. 104) Authorizes: (1) the Secretary to take specified remedial > and emergency measures either directly or by the owner, including > treatment or disposal, to avoid dissemination of a plant pest or > noxious weed; and (2) owner compensation for unauthorized disposals. > > (Sec. 107) Directs the Secretary to carry out a grasshopper and Mormon > Cricket control program, including: (1) cost sharing for State and > private land; and (2) personnel training. > > (Sec. 108) Authorizes the Secretary to make phytosanitary export > certificates based upon foreign requirements. > > Title II: Inspection and Enforcement - Sets forth provisions with > respect to: (1) inspections, warrants, and seizures, (2) information > collection; (3) subpoena authority; (4) criminal and civil penalties; > and (5) enforcement authority of the Attorney General. > > Title III: Miscellaneous Provisions - Authorizes the Secretary to > enter into reimbursable fee agreements for preclearance > outside the United States. > > (Sec. 305) States that this Act shall not apply to U.S. postal > employees in the course of their duties. > > (Sec. 308) Repeals specified Acts. > > Title IV: Authorization of Appropriations - Authorizes appropriations > to carry out this Act. > ********************** > S910 > > SUMMARY: > > (AS INTRODUCED) > > TABLE OF CONTENTS: > > Title I: Plant Protection > Title II: Inspection and Enforcement > Title III: Miscellaneous Provisions > Title IV: Federal Coordination > Title V: Authorization of Appropriations > > Noxious Weed Coordination and Plant Protection Act - Title I: Plant > Protection - Prohibits a person from importing, > exporting, or moving in interstate commerce an authorized plant pest. > Authorizes the Secretary of Agriculture to permit such introduction or > movement. Prohibits the unauthorized mailing, and knowing delivery by > a mail carrier, of plant pests. > > (Sec. 102) Authorizes the Secretary to restrict the importation, > movement, and means of conveyance of plants, plant products, > biological control organisms, plant pests, and noxious weeds in order > to prevent their U.S. introduction and interstate movement. > > Authorizes: (1) the Secretary to publish lists of noxious weeds and > biological control agents; and (2) private petitions to add or remove > listings. > > (Sec. 103) Directs the Secretary of the Treasury to notify the > Secretary of such articles' arrival, and hold them at the port of > entry until inspected and authorized for U.S. movement by the > Secretary. Prohibits a person from moving unauthorized and uninspected > articles from a port of entry or interstate. > > (Sec. 104) Authorizes: (1) the Secretary to take specified remedial > and emergency measures either directly or by the owner, including > treatment or disposal, to avoid dissemination of a plant pest or > noxious weed; and (2) owner compensation for unauthorized disposals. > > (Sec. 107) Directs the Secretary to carry out a grasshopper and Mormon > Cricket control program, including: (1) cost sharing for State and > private land; and (2) personnel training. > > (Sec. 108) Authorizes the Secretary to make phytosanitary export > certificates based upon foreign requirements. > > Title II: Inspection and Enforcement - Sets forth provisions with > respect to: (1) inspections, warrants, and seizures, (2) information > collection; (3) subpoena authority; (4) criminal and civil penalties; > and (5) enforcement authority of the Attorney General. > > Title III: Miscellaneous Provisions - Authorizes the Secretary to > enter into reimbursable fee agreements for preclearance outside the > United States. > > (Sec. 304) States that this Act shall not apply to U.S. postal > employees in the course of their duties. > > (Sec. 307) Repeals specified Acts. > > Title IV: Federal Coordination - Establishes the Invasive Species > Council to provide national leadership regarding invasive species, > including networking and other specified activities. > > Directs the Secretary of the Interior to establish a related advisory > committee. > > Directs the Council to develop and submit to the Congress a national > invasive species action plan. > > Title V: Authorization of Appropriations - Authorizes appropriations > to carry out this Act. > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > Subject: Federal bills > Author: brunetti@EMPM.CDPR.CA.GOV at GATEWAY > Date: 8/30/99 11:12 AM > > > This was posted to sanet, the sustainable ag. listserv. Does anyone > have information about these bills? > > At 7:30 PM -0700 8/28/99, Ellen Rainwalker wrote: > >Hi folks - I am new to the list. I am an organic farmer up in British > >Columbia. I have heard that there are two bills HR1504 and S910 > >pending in the US Congress and Senate that are against biological > >controls, calling them "plant pests". Does anyone know anything > >about this? > > **************************************** Kathy Brunetti, Senior Land > and Water Analyst California Department of Pesticide Regulation > 830 K Street, Sacramento, California, USA 95814 voice (916) 324-4100, > FAX (916) 324-4088 > Our Web site: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 16:38:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08834 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16851 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:47:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16839 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.010E87E2@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:46:17 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 30 Aug 99 15:46:11 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 30 Aug 99 15:45:57 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:45:47 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: "unrelated" discussions In-reply-to: <199908301515.LAA09108@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <930E8032744@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2458 > Man, I can't believe the arrogance of some people. > > Really guys, this isn't a religious forum, its about agriculture. > Wouldn't it be more polite if you were to exchange personal email to > talk about religion, or go to a group dedicated to that subject? Why > clutter up this forum with unrelated discussion? > > Son of Richard Man, I can't believe how narrow minded some people can be, SOR! This "agriculture" forum is about a lot more than giving recomendations about proper cover crops or where to buy a grain thresher. It's about agriculture in the context of the whole human being and in the context of nature. It requires a lot of "outside the box" thinking. It also requires decision-making that might not always make sense given current market signals. When all your decisions are based on straight forward short-cycle market signals (if it makes money: go, if it results in a loss of cash: stop) then you don't need discussion of ethics, morality, and spirituality and religion. Without any deeper understanding about human motivation or the moral and ethical consequences of your actions, you might as well say something like "get big or get out." You might conclude that small farms are anachronistic and not worth saving. You might decide that agrochemicals, GMOs, vertical integration of markets, and large scale monocropping is the way to go. Yes, I'd say that the loss of dialog about morals and ethics has much to do with the current farm crisis and many other environmental and social crises which exist. Honestly, I don't think that the thread on religion/spirituality, morals and ethics here has been random or irrelevant. If you're a busy farmer with time only to read the cover crop and grain thresher posts, then do some judicious deleting. Clearly, there are a lot of people who can see how a discussion of ethics and spirituality fits with sustainable ag. We're not discussing how many angels fit on the top of a pin, we're looking at the very motivation and moral impetus that leads people to support and carry out sustainable farming even in times of adversity and social disdain. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 16:48:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09003 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25124 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25112 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:00:20 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.191] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A2492EB80140; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:58:01 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg" Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:55:24 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: ag and ethics Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2459 On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:58:34 -0500, Wilson, Dale wrote: >Internal rudders don't appear to be very reliable. IMO, the answer is >immersion in nature, including science, and a healthy distrust of authority. >I don't see a lot of evidence that going deeper and deeper into one's mind >to get in touch with "deep feelings" is very productive. [major snip] >So, what does this analogy have to do with environmentalism? Do people >exploit nature because of long term culture (some would say instinct), or >because they are being actively tricked and subverted by an evil system? I >get the feeling that most (left-leaning) activists think that people are >intrinsically good, but are deceived and ensnared by an evil system. On the >other hand, "deep ecologists" feel that more intrinsic ethical values are >the problem. Christianity (and to some extent Judaism) take this a step further, holding that people are inherently sinful, and it is only through grace that we are able to work around this sin-nature. I'm not going to get into the discussion again, but this is an excellent example of how one's faith (be it in Secular Humanism or whatever else) *profoundly* affects one's understanding of the world and its troubles. Periodic faith-focused discussions are relevant to sustainable agriculture every bit as much as periodic discussions of bedrock geology are relevant to discussions about managing high-magnesium soils. I would add to Dale's comments that"getting in touch with our feelings" can be helpful, but only if the purpose of the exercise is to make sure that our actions are not ruled by those feelings. As to the question of expoliting nature as a long-term cultural phenomenon, two things come to mind. I suspect that a large part of the problem is that EFFECT is usually removed in both time and space from CAUSE. People don't realise that they are doing grave damage because the results are not immediate. Orchardists did not make the connection between their sprays of DDT to control codling moth and the fact that spider mites were becoming an ever-more-serious problem in their orchards ten years later. Certain entomologists (AD Pickett and others) not only had understood what would happen, but forecast it in print --- including some government orchard spray manuals --- as early as 1950. When International Nickel (INCO) raised their Sudbury smelter stack to 800-odd feet (because American astronauts had used the Sudbury area to simulate the moon...) they moved their sulphur problems from local to far downwind. My neighbours did not understand that their soild acidity problems and higher lime bills were related to something that happened 700 miles to the west, 15 years earlier. The second problem is that of the INCENTIVE TRAP --- a situation in which it is to the short term advantage of an individual to do something that is harmful to him/her over ther longer term, or is harmful to society in general. Government subsidies to agriculture fit into that category. So do the guys here in Kansas this year who destroyed native tallgrass prairie in order to plant Roundup-Ready soybeans. It is only the LDP subsidies that make such action even a remotely paying proposition, and I suspect that not a few of these folks will use the cash from those beans (provided they can sell 'em ...) to pay off a bank loan, while leaving the suppliers hanging out to dry. Historically, about the only two things capable of overcoming a powerful incentive trap are totalitarian government and/or strong religious taboos. Pigs are tropical animals and use up / mess up a lot of water. The Middle East has very little water. Pigs in that environment would be a mojor problem in competing for human water. Pigs are also very tasty. Ooops -- incentive trap. Voila, religious taboo. In southeast Asia, on the other hand, water is abundant, and the story turned out very differently, the consumption of pigs being a component of many religious ceremonies. Functionally, it would seem that the combination of incentive traps and the distance between cause and effect can explain a great deal of the problems we see in conventional agriculture. Education and ethics can probably address the cause-effect distance problem, but I suspect that dealing with the many existing incentive traps in agriculture will be a much more complicated and long-term proposition. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 17:31:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09706 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10014 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:37:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mds03.prontomail.com (mds03.prontomail.com [209.185.149.93]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09981 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peggy2 (209.185.149.226) by mds03.prontomail.com (NPlex 2.0.123) for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:31:35 -0700 From: "Peggy Adams" Message-Id: <199908301333031@peggy2.looksmart.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:33:03 -0800 X-Priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Avery, manure and food safety X-Mailer: Web Based Pronto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA09985 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2460 Sanet, It may turn out that Avery's worries about manure may be better directed at conventional farming. I just returned from a meeting with the mayor of a small rural Idaho town. He is negotiating with a local, conventional, large scale farmer to spray the town's liquid, uncomposted sewage sludge on land currently in CRS. He would like to get local farmers to spray it of field stubble, too. I have also read recently that large-scale potato growers in southern Idaho are experimenting with spraying uncomposted manure from local dairies and feed lots on commercial fields as a way to solve the disposal problems associated with CAFOs. It seems that as the problem of manure disposal becomes a larger issue for CAFOs conventional farmers, at least here in Idaho, are finding the use of manure increasingly attractive. Peggy Adams Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute Moscow, Idaho LookSmart or keep looking. http://www.looksmart.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 17:54:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10102 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:54:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24279 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:12:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24251 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21329 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EKA3E8RC; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:10:06 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:47:46 -0700 Subject: ladybugs, cucumber beetles, and bean beetles Message-ID: <19990830.135513.3454.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7,13,28,31-32 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2461 Someone asked if (light yellow) lady bugs eat fruit and someone else suggested they might be spotted cucumber beetles. I have another candidate, which is in the same family as laddy bugs: Mexican bean beetle. They look a lot like large yellow lady beetles and their larva skelletonize bean leaves. I just cut down my corn patch (after harvesting fermenting corn) which was interplanted with pinto beans. I don't think the bean beetles did serious damage because they weren't numerous until the bean crop was essentially all ripe. Meanwhile, the corn stalks were still green and oozed juice where I cut them. Flies, wasps, occassional bean beetles and both striped and spotted cucumber beetles gathered, apparently to sip the juice. I also had lots of convergent lady beetles (and a few of those black ones with two bright red spots) present, but didn't notice any lady beetles gathering at the corn stalk cuts. BTW, for those of you who responded when I asked about the relationship of cucumber beetles attracted to jimson weed relative to their larva being corn root worm: by the end of the season, nearly half of my corn stalks had blown down, but I attributed it to high winds when the ground was saturated by rain (I think I counted 19 days in the last 29 with rain). Anyway, my county agent tells me both spotted and striped cucumber beetles are common here and that jimson weed contains curcurbitin (spelling?) which attracts them. He told of someone who deliberately grows jimson weed (after one season of doing so, I'll keep them to the native flower section of my yard in the future) and sends the tubers to an insecticide company for making a bait so he uses less Sevin than he used to. While I was harvesting my corn, I made it a point to pull some of the blown-down stalks (very challenging despite moist soil). I couldn't see any damage to the roots. If the larva of cucumber beetles had been attacking them, would it have been obvious? Whatever the answer, I'm hauling the residue out to the chicken yard for them to pick over, and plan to plant something else in that patch next season (maybe tomatoes and cucumbers). Any comments? Best regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 18:28:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11104 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09561 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:51:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09534 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.49] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:46:31 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:54:58 -0400 Subject: Rotational cropping melons/turkeys/livestock From: "Patricia Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990830214631165.AAA283@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.49]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2462 I have two cover crop questions. Please excuse the cross posting. First, I am tilling under a 1/2-acre watermelon/cantaloupe crop after harvest this week and want to put in a cover crop for the winter. This is sandy loam, pH 6.5, and I have t-tape and overhead irrigation available. The field was spaded with a 12-inch deep spader in mid-June 1999. Currently it has melon vines and a huge crop of weeds, crab grass and fescue that re-established. I want to add more nitrogen to the soil, be able to graze turkeys on the cover crop in October-November, light grazing of meat goats and beef bulls thru the winter, and turn under a decent amount of green matter and root mass in late April 2000 so I can replant watermelons and cantaloupes on the field in early May. What would you suggest? Second, in early May 2000 I will put down red plastic mulch for the melons, with beds spaced about 3-feet apart. I want to plant a cover crop in the strip between the beds to protect the soil, cushion the melons that stray out off the plastic mulch, add nitrogen, and keep weeds from germinating. What would you suggest? thanks, Andy Lee, Good Earth Farm, Buena Vista, Virginia To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 19:07:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12013 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24752 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:28:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24746 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp49.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.149]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA27824 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:23:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002001bef336$be6312a0$b2fd2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: IOIA Organic Inspector Training Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:25:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2463 Is anyone attending the upcoming IOIA Organic Inspectors' training in Michigan (9/22-9/26)? I would like to get in touch with anyone going, especially from the WI area. Am interested in contact with anyone going to any of the courses (Basic Livestock, Basic Farm and/or Basic Process Inspection) Please contact me privately. Thanks, Julie marq@mwt.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 19:28:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12440 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05607 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:50:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05590 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA169140 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:49:41 -0500 Message-ID: <37CB0A1E.1A8C35CA@missouri.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:47:59 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: Upcoming Alternative Trade Conference in Kansas City Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2464 In late September, officials from a number of North American cities, transportation offices, and trade delegations will be in Kansas City to talk about developing Interstate 35 as the "NAFTA Corridor" from Winnipeg to Mexico (which will pass through Kansas City). No citizen groups from agriculture, environment, labor, cities etc. were invited to participate. So they created their own conference and invited all the people NAFTA will impact the most! An agenda follows. One panel specifically focuses on a North American agribusiness -- IBP -- as a case study of how free trade impacts agriculture, food, labor and the environment. Bill Heffernan, Mike Callicrate, and Jerry Helmick will be featured on the panel. Thought some of you might be interested in coming out. Mary ______________________ Who Pays the Bill? A Citizens Summit on Free Fair Trade September 24-25 Also, teach-ins and other activities Sept. 23-24 While corporations run away with the profits of free trade, citizens are left to pay the bills in: Lost jobs Lower wages Bankrupt family farmers Peasants forced off the land to become immigrants Environmental devastation Loss of democracy Help us formulate a Citizens' Agenda for Fair Trade which puts people first. UMKC -Royal Hall, Rm. 111 800 E. 52nd Street Kansas City, MO AGENDA FRIDAY EVENING, SEPTEMBER 24 Who is making trade policy in the U.S. and Mexico? 7:00 Congress's responsibility to the citizens of a global economy, and how can citizens move Congress? Member of Congress 8:15 Narcotrafficking and political change on the Mexican border Ninfa Deander, Publisher of El Maana newspaper, Nuevo Laredo 9:00 Reception SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 25 9:00 NAFTA's impact on workers in U.S. Canada and Mexico: George Becker, President, United Steelworkers (invited) Martha Ojeda, Director, Coalition for Justice in the Maquiladoras Former worker from Steelworkers Local 4706, Goldblatt Tool (just moved to Mexico) David Locke, Communications Workers of America 10:40 Organizing Alternatives to the I-35 Corridor Development Phil Young, Vice President, Teamsters International Craig Volland, Kansas Sierra Club Tim McDermott, Save Richard Gebaur Committee Valli Sharpe-Geisler, Reform Party 11:50 Lunch and small group discussions 1:00 What's our Beef? How IBP uses free trade to destroy farmers and food safety and exploit immigrant workers William Heffernan, rural sociologist, UMC Mike Callicrate, farmer and rancher who filed suit against IBP An Immigrant worker Jerry Helmick, United Food and Commercial Workers 2:15 Organizing for a People's Fair Trade Agenda and the Road to the WTO Meeting in Seattle, Nov. '99. Ruth Caplan, Alliance for Democracy 3:00 Citizen's Agenda for Fair Trade Open discussion and adoption of a Citizen's Agenda to be presented to governmental bodies. 4:00 Adjourn Cosponsors: Boilermakers International Catholics for Justice Cross Border Network for Justice & Solidarity Firefighters Local 42 Food Circles Networking Project Greater Kansas City AFL-CIO Greater KC Fair Trade Coalition Greater KC Greens Holy Family Catholic Worker Center Institute for Labor Studies Kansas AFL-CIO Kansas City Area Labor Party Kansas City Kansas Community College - Campus Forum KU Amnesty International Missouri AFL-CIO Missouri Rural Crisis Center MO-KAN Alliance for Democracy Reform Party of Kansas Reform Party of Missouri Reform Party of Jackson City, MO Sierra Club -Kansas & Southern Plains Regional Conservation Committee Teamsters Local 41 Tri-County Labor Council-AFL-CIO United Autoworkers (UAW) Local 249 UAW Local 31 & Local 31 Retirees UAW CAP-Kansas City Missouri & Kansas United Steelworkers Advisory Council United Steelworkers Local 13 United We Stand, MO & KS Village Presbyterian Peace & Justice Advocates To Register: Name_____________________________________________________________________ Organization (if any)_________________________________________________________ Address ___________________________________________________________________ City _____________________________ State____ Zip________________ Phone __________Fax____________ Email__________________________ Enclosed is my check for: $35 Fri/Sat____(Reduced rates for students and low income) $15 (Fri eve)___ $25 (Sat only)_____ (Price includes: Continental breakfast and lunch) I will need housing_____ I will need hotel accommodations ____ (We will send recommendations) Make checks out to Longview Community College. You may call in, fax or email registration and mail in check or pay by credit card (Visa or Master Card) to: The Institute for Labor Studies UMKC-360AC 5100 Rockhill Rd. Kansas City, MO 64110 Phone:(816) 235-1470 Fax: (816) 235-5529 Email: ancelj@umkc.edu Contact Person: Judy Ancel To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 20:08:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12896 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22361 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:35:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22347 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA03285 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:33:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2d-96.ix.netcom.com(209.110.255.96) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002697; Mon Aug 30 18:31:32 1999 Message-ID: <000c01bef33f$a2225200$60ff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Re: Avery, manure and food safety Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:30:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2465 Hi List, In the below post Peggy mentions the possible spraying of "raw" manure on potato fields. Is this not an ok practice if done say in the fall then it sort of composts all winter and crop is not planted in spring? Beth > > >It may turn out that Avery's worries about manure may be better directed at conventional farming. I just returned from a meeting with the mayor of a small rural Idaho town. He is negotiating with a local, conventional, large scale farmer to spray the town's liquid, uncomposted sewage sludge on land currently in CRS. He would like to get local farmers to spray it of field stubble, too. > >I have also read recently that large-scale potato growers in southern Idaho are experimenting with spraying uncomposted manure from local dairies and feed lots on commercial fields as a way to solve the disposal problems associated with CAFOs. > >It seems that as the problem of manure disposal becomes a larger issue for CAFOs conventional farmers, at least here in Idaho, are finding the use of manure increasingly attractive. > > >Peggy Adams >Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute >Moscow, Idaho > >LookSmart or keep looking. >http://www.looksmart.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Aug 30 21:31:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15395 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00102 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:58:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca (pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca [129.128.5.19]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00052; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from altair.ucs.ualberta.ca (altair.ucs.ualberta.ca [129.128.5.41]) by pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22753; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:57:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca (gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca [129.128.98.13]) by altair.ucs.ualberta.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25285; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:57:41 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:57:41 -0600 (MDT) From: S Rempel X-Sender: rempel@gpu3.srv.ualberta.ca To: sanet-mg-digest cc: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1263 In-Reply-To: <199908302210.SAA15056@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2466 Hello: I am involved in growing out and conserving heritage and ancestral varieties of wheats. I live in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I believe that organic growers in Europe and elsewhere find that many of these old varieties are of great interest for low input farming conditions. I'm curious to know if there are other curators of heritage cereals out there. I'd like to find out about your work and collection. Thanks. Sharon ------------- Sharon Rempel mailing address: #194, 3803 Calgary Trail, Edmonton, Alberta T6J 5M8 Canada phone (780)461-9958 fax (780)469-6314 "Only when the last tree has died and the last river poisoned and the last fish caught will we realize that we cannot eat money." 19th century Cree Indian ------------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 09:04:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22130 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14868 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:02:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14850 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:02:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7UIYa05147 (3860) for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49ac2116.24fd1dfa@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:00:58 EDT Subject: Sept 3-7, seeking written contributions to organic farm research methodology To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id IAA14854 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2467 Hello, I have been invited to participate in the following workshop to discuss and develop approaches in organic farming research methodologies. The workshop is on one hand a consolidation of ideas to date and on the other hand a step in the continuing development of the most relevant and useful approachs to solving and documenting solutions to organic farmers' questions and needs. I would appreciate any thoughts, papers, innovations you may have on the subject of organic farm reseach methodologies relating to the following four areas of the parallel sessions. The parallel sessions are as follows: Improving organic farming techniques to reduce the environmental impact (facil.: L. Phillips - UK) Networking and organic pilot farms (facil.: U. Zerger - IT/DE) Improving animal welfare and health (facil.: Ton Baars - NL) Strategies for higher producer value in organic farming systems (facil.: O. Schmid - CH) This is the requested format for formal introduction of papers: "INSTRUCTIONS FOR CONTRIBUTORS Parallel sessions handouts: max. two A4 pages, single spaced, Times 12, text/graphics for inclusion in the proceedings. Structure: Introduction Overview of the methodology/project proposed/in progress Brief assessment of the potentials of the methodology/project proposed/used Conclusions & proposals References Please bring the files on diskette and 40 printed copies to the Workshop." I am willing to convey developed concepts as composed on paper to the group meeting. I can receive them via email message anytime up to Sunday, the 3rd. I apoligize for bringing this so late to your attention, but farming is time consuming. The Humane Society US along with Ripplebrook Organic Growers has provided assistance for the travel expense and US/FAO has provided the room and board for the meeting. A report concerning the thoughts and proposals from the meeting will be provided shortly after its termination. Best regards, Eric Kindberg AGENDA: 2nd SREN Workshop on "Research Methodologies in Organic Farming" PROVISIONAL AGENDA Saturday, 4 September 1999 21.00 hours Pre-workshop meeting of speakers & group facilitators in order to fine-tune workshop aims, brainstorming techniques & reporting Sunday, 5 September 1999 08.30 hours Registration of participants Plenary session: Chairman: R. Zanoli (Coordinator of the Working Group - IT) 09.00 hours Welcome: M. De Cristofaro (Minister of Agriculture - Regional Government of Apulia - IT) Opening: C. Lacirignola (CIHEAM-MAIB - IT) 09.30 hours FAO & Organic Agriculture (N. Scialabba - FAO) 09.45 hours R&D in Organic Farming in the 5th (EC) Framework Programme (A. Borchard - DGVI) 10. 00 hours R&D in Organic farming in Mediterranean areas (F. De Castro - IAMB) 10.15 hours Coffee break and press conference SESSION 1: On farm & participatory research in organic farming 11.00 hours Introduction to the Workshop (R. Zanoli - Coordinator of the Working Group - IT) 11.10 hours Review of current on-farm research in organic farming (W. Lockeretz/Christopher Stopes - Tufts University & Eco-Stopes Consultancy - USA & UK) 11.30 hours A simulation approach for organic farming guided by farmers: a participatory approach to agricultural policy research (A. Haring - University of Hohenheim - DE) 11.50 hours The changing role of the researcher/advisor in agriculture: implications for Organic farming (F. M. Santucci - University of Perugia - IT) 12.10 hours Open plenary discussion 13.00 hours Lunch SESSION II: Group meetings on on-farm & participatory research 14.30 hours Meetings of parallel group sessions: Improving organic farming techniques to reduce the environmental impact (facil.: L. Phillips - UK) Networking and organic pilot farms (facil.: U. Zerger - IT/DE) Improving animal welfare and health (facil.: Ton Baars - NL) Strategies for higher producer value in organic farming systems (facil.: O. Schmid - CH) 17.00 hours Coffee break 17.30 hours Parallel group sessions continue 19.00 hours End of group work 20.00 hours Dinner Monday, 6 September 1998 Plenary session: 09.00 hours Parallel group sessions continue with preparation of the SWOT report 10.30 hours Coffee break 11.00 hours Parallel group sessions continue with preparation of the SWOT report 12.00 hours Meeting of facilitators & rapporteurs for preparing the summary reports of the sessions 13.00 hours Lunch 14.30 hours Visit to IAMB 16.00 hours Coffee break 16.30 hours Reports of parallel group sessions 17.30 hours Discussion 18.30 hours End of group work Tuesday, 7 September 1998 Plenary session: Chairman: R. Krell (REU-FAO) 09.00 hours Review and future programmes of the Working group: objectives 10.30 hours Coffee break 11.00 hours Review and future programmes of the Working group: organisational aspects 12.30 hours End of workshop NB. Not all speakers have confirmed their participation. INSTRUCTIONS FOR CONTRIBUTORS Parallel sessions handouts: max. two A4 pages, single spaced, Times 12, text/graphics for inclusion in the proceedings. Structure: Introduction Overview of the methodology/project proposed/in progress Brief assessment of the potentials of the methodology/project proposed/used Conclusions & proposals References Please bring the files on diskette and 40 printed copies to the Workshop. ******************************** Prof. Dr. Raffaele Zanoli Associate Professor of Agricultural Economics DIBIAGA,Faculty of Agriculture University of Ancona Via Brecce Bianche I-60131 ANCONA (Italy) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 09:24:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22387 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00891 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po4.wam.umd.edu (po4.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00821 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:36:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (root@rac7.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.147]) by po4.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17248; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03409; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jennsueb@localhost) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03405; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:35:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac7.wam.umd.edu: jennsueb owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:35:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Jennifer Sue Butler To: Dan Hook cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery, manure and food safety In-Reply-To: <000c01bef33f$a2225200$60ff6ed1@dan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2468 It could be a potential problem if there is precipitation and phosphorus moves out of the field and into a water body. On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Dan Hook wrote: > Hi List, In the below post Peggy mentions the possible spraying of "raw" > manure on potato fields. Is this not an ok practice if done say in the fall > then it sort of composts all winter and crop is not planted in spring? Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 10:34:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23402 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06007 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:45:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06002 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA07670; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:44:37 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma006957; Tue, 31 Aug 99 08:44:06 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:44:06 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:44:05 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FED0@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Hal Hamilton'" Subject: RE: ag and ethics (was Athority) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:44:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2469 Hal, > Dale, your definition of sustainability seems to rest on > preservation of "wild nature." That seems to me to be an > extremely narrow conflation of the concept. ???? Here is the exchange regarding wild lands: Anita wrote: >>> Does the real estate broker think about what it means >>> to sell a piece of wild or agricutural land for a strip >>> mall or a casino? Does the person selling the land? I wrote: >> I am sure they do sometimes, but probably their values are >> different from yours. I think that many people don't care >> that much about wild nature, for example. You wrote: > So I'd argue that this debate is not so much about ethics as > about sustainability, which is a concept in which ethics play a > role along with economics, ecology, sociology, political science. "Sustainability" is a political code-word, useless for ordinary conversation about biology, cultural practices, or ethics. > And I'd always argue the case for there being an "objective > reality" independent of each of our points of view. At least we agree on something. And this is very important. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 11:02:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23930 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:02:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21039 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:17:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20994 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:16:52 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DDE4@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: "Unrelated" discussions?? Defintely related. Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:16:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2470 Sanet; I agree with Anita - even it that only makes two of us. I don't think you can have a meaningful discussing of sustainability that excludes spirituality. Spirituality and religion are not the same things - although we are not likely to have a discussion of one without the other. To me, spirituality simply means a felt need to be in harmony with some higher order of things. With regard to spirituality, I don't think it really matters whether one refers to this higher order as God, nature, or something else. Spirituality is simply a belief that we can't just do whatever we please here on earth, that we can't necessarily fix anything that we might mess up, that we won't necessarily find a substitute for every resource that we use up, that human technology is not the answer to every human ill, and that the market is not God. We have to conform to some higher order of things rather than bend and twist nature to things to fit every whim. Sustainability ultimately is about intergenerational equity - to meet the needs of the present while leaving equal or better opportunities for the future. Most seem to agree that sustainable systems must be economically viable, ecologically sound, and socially responsible. Economic viability is about self interest - meeting our own needs today and tomorrow. Social responsibility is mostly about shared interest - meeting needs which we share with others within families, communities, nations, society, today and tomorrow. Ecological sustainability in mostly about altruistic interests - meeting the needs of others, needs which go beyond our own selfish interests or interests that we share with others. Certainly, we may gain personally from a healthy environment today, as does the rest of society. But we have no narrow self interest, nor do we have a shared societal interest, in protecting and conserving resources for all future generations. We won't be here, no one we know will be here, we may not even have any descendents here on earth when those resources are used. Spirituality is interconnected with self interests and with shared interests, but it is the central issue in altruistic interests, which in turn is central to ecological sustainability. We are concerned about ecological "sustainability" only if we have some felt need to live in harmony with some higher order of things - if we are spiritual. If we do not believe in a higher order, or do not feel a need to find harmony with it, there is no logical reason to be concerned about whether or not people thousands of years from now will have opportunities equal to or better than we have today. They can take care of themselves. We have to clean up messes left by people in the past, so they can clean up ours. They can find a replacement for anything we use up. Future technology will take care of any problem that arises. And, the market is perfectly capable of allocating scarce resources over time. If we exclude spirituality from our discussion of sustainability, we exclude ecological "sustainability" from our discussion as well. We could still talk about individual and societal environmental risks of the present, but conserving and protecting resources for the indefinite future would make no sense. Any discussion of spirituality should be thoughtful and considerate - respectful of the opinions and beliefs of all. After all we are not talking about anything we can prove. A higher order, by definition, is something above and beyond us. We can't contain and subject it to us, because we are contained within it are subject to it. Spirituality will always be about belief, -- not fact. Hopefully, the inevitable discussions of religion that will accompany discussions of spirituality can be thoughtful and considerate as well - respectful not only of all opinions and beliefs but also of the "feelings" of others. But, I sincerely hope that we will not prohibit the discussion of spirituality, and therefore the discussion of sustainability, on the sustainable agriculture network, simply because discussions of religion oftentimes become uncomfortable. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Anita Graf (Staff) [mailto:agraf@agecon.uga.edu] Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 10:46 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: "unrelated" discussions > Man, I can't believe the arrogance of some people. > > Really guys, this isn't a religious forum, its about agriculture. > Wouldn't it be more polite if you were to exchange personal email to > talk about religion, or go to a group dedicated to that subject? Why > clutter up this forum with unrelated discussion? > > Son of Richard Man, I can't believe how narrow minded some people can be, SOR! This "agriculture" forum is about a lot more than giving recomendations about proper cover crops or where to buy a grain thresher. It's about agriculture in the context of the whole human being and in the context of nature. It requires a lot of "outside the box" thinking. It also requires decision-making that might not always make sense given current market signals. Clearly, there are a lot of people who can see how a discussion of ethics and spirituality fits with sustainable ag. We're not discussing how many angels fit on the top of a pin, we're looking at the very motivation and moral impetus that leads people to support and carry out sustainable farming even in times of adversity and social disdain. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 11:40:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24558 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06616 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:52:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06496 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:55:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: grant opportunity Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:55:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2471 Contact Katherine Trent, Manager of Agricultural Relations, Philip Morris Management Corp, 804 274-3329 for information or an application packet. Philip Morris Inc announces its Shared Solutions Agricultural Contributions Program, to foster creative thinking that leads to innovative pilot programs addressing issues shared by all members of the farm-to-consumer chain. Grant categories are: Science (educating consumers about farming and food production practices, ensuring food safety, preserving and enhancing the environment in agriculture); Economics (promoting use of risk management tools, promoting increased understanding of benefits of trade liberalization). Grants are for up to $25000 (or larger for strong proposals) to 501(c)(3) organizations and partners. Applications are due September 10 with notification on Dec 1, 1999. Contact Katherine Trent, Manager of Agricultural Relations, Philip Morris Management Corp, 804 274-3329 for information or an application packet. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 11:47:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24657 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:56:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from purple.tmn.com (purple.tmn.com [205.177.137.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11141 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tmn.com ([164.106.173.25]) by purple.tmn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25759; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37CBE9E1.16C21225@tmn.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:42:41 -0400 From: tabeles Reply-To: tabeles@tmn.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ikerd, John E." CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, agraf@agecon.uga.edu Subject: Re: "Unrelated" discussions?? Defintely related. References: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DDE4@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2472 I believe that John is correct in his sense. But, this list has been resistant to any thread which did not appear to be directly applicable in the field or in the marketplace. Yet, if John is right in his premises, then all of the current practices must be informed by underlying metaphysical constructs such as a definition of sustainability and/or a concept of the "sacred", however it is termed. In fact, the concept of family farms and rural community are not informed just by pragmatic facts, but, indeed, are severely tempered by an underlying philosophical position which can be decoupled, often, from basic environmental practices. thoughts? tom abeles "Ikerd, John E." wrote: > Sanet; > > I agree with Anita - even it that only makes two of us. I don't think you > can have a meaningful discussing of sustainability that excludes > spirituality. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 12:02:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24807 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18271 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:21:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18242 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:24:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'\"R. Jiffin I. Arboleda\" '" Subject: Faculty Opening at UBC Faculty of Agricultural Sciences Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:24:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2473 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:50:01 -0700 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "R. Jiffin I. Arboleda" Subject: Faculty Opening at UBC Faculty of Agricultural Sciences Please post and disseminate to interested parties. Thank you. Instructor I Position Agroecology Program UBC Faculty of Agricultural Sciences The Faculty of Agricultural Sciences at the University of British Columbia invites applications from suitably qualified persons for the position of Instructor I in the Agroecology Program. The position involves undergraduate and graduate teaching, research and community service. Candidates must have a Ph.D. in philosophy, biology, sociology or a similar field and teaching/research interests in the areas of critical thinking, ethics and sustainable agriculture. Preference will be given to individuals with strengths in the areas of critical thinking, ethics and sustainable agriculture. Ideally candidates will bring a global perspective to their teaching through direct experience or interest in global issues. Candidates must also be committed to undergraduate teaching in an interdisciplinary and flexible, team-teaching framework (consult our WEB site for more curriculum development information: www.agsci.ubc.ca). The Faculty is in the process of a significant transformation of its undergraduate programs with an emphasis on problem-based learning as a pedagogy and distributed learning as the means of delivery. It is expected that this position may involve connections across the campus to teach collaboratively with units such as anthropology, sociology, international relations and women's studies. Salary is commensurate with qualifications and experience. Duties include participation in developing and delivering the Land, Food & Community I course, particularly the modules in critical thinking and ethics, and assisting in the development and delivery of the total new Agroecology curriculum; working in the areas of cultural diversity, ethnic relations and relations between scientific and community-based ecological knowledge; promoting our "global graduate studies" program; and mentoring graduate students. Teaching and curriculum development experience an asset. UBC hires on the basis of merit and is committed to employment equity. UBC encourages all qualified persons to apply. In accordance with Canadian immigration requirements, priority will be given to Canadian citizens and permanent residents of Canada in the first instance. This position is subject to budgetary approval. Applications will be received until November 1, 1999 or until the position is filled. Applicants should submit a letter containing a statement of teaching and research interest, a full curriculum vitae, names of three referees, and a sample of research to: Dr. Art Bomke Chair. Agroecology Search Committee c/o Faculty of Agricultural Sciences The University of British Columbia 248-2357 Main Mall, Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 ___________________________________ R. Jiffin I. Arboleda Assistant to the Dean Faculty of Agricultural Sciences The University of British Columbia 248-2357 Main Mall Vancouver BC V6T 1Z4 jiffina@interchange.ubc.ca 604.822.3105 ___________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 12:12:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24922 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28626 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:40:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28550 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.39] (gl-ppp19.hevanet.com [204.119.60.39]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA08178; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908311539.IAA08178@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:36:34 -0700 Subject: FW: Scientists Adapt DNA Test to Sugarbeet Fungal Pathogens From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2474 This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Scientists Adapt DNA Test to Sugarbeet Fungal Pathogens Date: Tue, Aug 31, 1999, 7:13 AM STORY LEAD: Scientists Adapt DNA Test to Sugarbeet Fungal Pathogens ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Ben Hardin, (309) 681-6597, bhardin@asrr.arsusda.gov August 31, 1999 ----------- Sugarbeet growers may soon get a new tool for identifying fungi poised to damage their crop. With the same basic technology used in diagnosing human disease, Agricultural Research Service scientists developed a way to quickly identify any of six major fungi types that attack U.S. sugarbeets. Each disease can cause multimillion-dollar losses. Developed at ARS' Red River Valley Agricultural Research Center, Fargo, N.D., the diagnostic process can be completed within 8 hours. Researchers designed DNA probes that detect unique DNA segments for each fungal type. Using polymerase chain reaction (PCR), the scientists reproduce millions of copies of unique segments occurring in a plant tissue sample harboring fungi. From the amplified DNA, they can quickly distinguish pathogens by a "DNA fingerprint" generated when DNA is cut into pieces with an enzyme. With PCR, scientists don't have to isolate fungi from diseased roots or leaves and spend days culturing them before they're identified. Rapid identification of offending microbes by their DNA would tip off growers to the need for applying the most appropriate control measures before diseases seriously curtail yields. Further research aims at narrowing the fungi's identification by species as well as genus. The scientists have already developed probes to distinguish Aphanomyces cochlioides, which causes black root disease of sugarbeet, from A. euteiches, which causes root rot in peas and other legumes. Other sugarbeet fungi include Pythium ultimum, Cercospora beticola, Phoma betae, Fusarium oxysporum and Rhizoctonia solani. Another goal is to use the technology to analyze fungi in field soils as well as plant samples. By knowing soil infestation levels, farmers could better decide when and where to rotate crops. ARS is USDA's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: John J. Weiland, Sugarbeet and Potato Research, ARS Red River Valley Agricultural Research Center, Fargo, N.D., phone (701) 239-1373; fax (701) 239-1349, weilandj@fargo.ars.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 12:20:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25160 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27760 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:36:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27753 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:36:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA25487; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:36:04 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma025150; Tue, 31 Aug 99 10:35:51 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:35:53 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:35:51 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FED3@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Ikerd, John E.'" Subject: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:35:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2475 John, > Spirituality and religion are not the same things - > although we are not likely to have a discussion of one > without the other. To me, spirituality simply means a > felt need to be in harmony with some higher order of things. IMO, "spirituality" in the environmentalist community is a derivative of christianity, with a vaguley defined Telos, Entelechy or Universal-Mind-Soul in the place of God. Despite the "deep ecologists" over in the corner, most of what I hear on Sanet seems to be part of the general (primarily social) progressive vision of the enlightenment, a christian derivative. Values like equity, freedom, and health dominate the discussion. It seems quite anthropocentric. > We have to conform to some higher order of things rather > than bend and twist nature to things to fit every whim. This is a statement of the natural law ethics of the movement. The "higher order of things" is the putative guiding hand of Nature (God substitute), and the law is written in the biosphere as opposed to stone tablets. The difficulty IMO, is that reading the "Law" is difficult in practice, and many people do so through the lense of idiosyncratic social theory. This contributes to the anthropocentricity. > Sustainability ultimately is about intergenerational equity - > to meet the needs of the present while leaving equal or better > opportunities for the future. YES! THAT, is a good definition of sustainability. But it still isn't a big help in the exegesis of natural law. > Most seem to agree that sustainable systems must be > economically viable, ecologically sound, and socially > responsible. Everybody from the heads of Dupont and Monsanto on down would agree with that statement. The devil is in the details, and it depends on how you interpret natural law, and whether you buy into the concept of natural law. > We are concerned about ecological "sustainability" only if we > have some felt need to live in harmony with some higher order > of things - if we are spiritual. What about physicalists (those who do not believe in the existence of a "higher order") but nevertheless do care? > If we do not believe in a higher order, or do not feel a need > to find harmony with it, there is no logical reason to be > concerned about whether or not people thousands of years from now > will have opportunities equal to or better than we have today. Are you familiar with E.O. Wilson's view that altruism is instinctive, honed by group selection? He is a physicalist and former evangelical christian. Can ethics derived from apparent evolution of altruism (another reading of nature) form a basis for sustainability (intergenerational sense)? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 15:54:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01041 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:54:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28733 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:56:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crilling.telmex.net.mx (crilling.telmex.net.mx [200.33.150.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28635 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.78.95] ("port 2055"@[148.233.78.95]) by sims01.telmex.net.mx (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FHC00IUOGFAN4@sims01.telmex.net.mx> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:21:16 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:30:00 -0600 From: Guillermo Romero Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1264 In-reply-to: <199908311522.LAA19592@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA28665 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2476 >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:25:35 -0500 >From: "Julie" >Subject: IOIA Organic Inspector Training > >Is anyone attending the upcoming IOIA Organic Inspectors' training in >Michigan (9/22-9/26)? I would like to get in touch with anyone going, >especially from the WI area. Am interested in contact with anyone going to >any of the courses (Basic Livestock, Basic Farm and/or Basic Process >Inspection) >Please contact me privately. Thanks, > >Julie >marq@mwt.net Hi Julie: Because I am going to the Mid Atlantic BD conference, I am thinking in also taking the opportunity and do the IAOI Basic Organic Farm Inspector Trainning (Sept 23-26). This is not definite because IAOI is also planning a trainning in Mex and the regst deadline is tomorrow. Whenever you get the chance, please re-send the pict of you and Allan. How was your experience with Allan? Cheers Guillermo Romero Ibarrola Comala, Colima, MEXICO To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 16:01:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01546 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07437 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:12:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07358 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:12:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from igce.igc.org (igce.igc.org [192.82.108.49]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA18770 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [4.9.158.180] (PPPa30-NewYork1-5R211.saturn.bbn.com [4.9.158.180]) by igce.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA08264 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:09:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: corevaluesne@pop2.igc.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: corevaluesne@mothers.org (CORE Values Northeast) Subject: Position Opening Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2477 Please circulate. FINANCE DIRECTOR Mothers & Others for a Livable Planet seeks a Finance Director. Resp. incl. budgeting, A/P & GL, audit, analysis, payroll and HR. interface w/ ED & Board Fin. Comm. Degree in acctg, 5+ yr non-proft exp., computer proficiency, Peachtree a+. Fax to M.E at 212/242-0545 or write to M&O at 40 W. 20th St., NYC, NY 10011 attn. M.E. Francine Stephens Senior Program Associate Mothers & Others "Taking Our Planet Personally" To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 16:32:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02102 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19323 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:34:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19295 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rdsft-59.mw.issp.UCSC.EDU (rdsft-59.mw.issp.UCSC.EDU [209.54.195.59]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4.cats-athena) with SMTP id MAA22283 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:33:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rumpleteazer.ucsc.edu: rdsft-59.mw.issp.UCSC.EDU [209.54.195.59] didn't use HELO protocol Message-Id: <4.1.19990831122935.00ab0520@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu> X-Sender: amarsh@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:35:30 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Andrew Marshall Subject: seeking info. re: the Fund for Rural America Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2478 Greetings SANETteers, I am a graduate student in interested in the USDA/ Federal Government's commitment to sustainable and alternative agricultural development as reflected in the political struggles around the 1996 farm bill. I am particularly interested in understanding and locating the rise and fall of the Fund for Rural America as exemplary of this process. I'm wondering if anyone out there help me out with the following questions, or to communicate with me further, or forward this enquiry to people who might: *what was the process by which the FRA was included in the FAIR? *whose idea was it? *who wrote it and lobbied for it? *who spoke on its behalf in congress, and what were their rationales & justifications for its necessity? I would truly appreciate any replies, and thank you all for the work you do on behalf of agricultural and rural sustainability. ******************************************** Andrew Marshall Department of Environmental Studies University of California Santa Cruz CA 95064 ph. 831-459-5647 fax. 831-459-4015 ******************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 17:07:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02808 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13339 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:18:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13329 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:17:53 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DDE5@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'Wilson, Dale'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:17:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2479 Dale Some brief responses below. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Wilson, Dale [mailto:WILSONDO@phibred.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 10:36 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: 'Ikerd, John E.' Subject: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) John, > Spirituality and religion are not the same things - > although we are not likely to have a discussion of one > without the other. To me, spirituality simply means a > felt need to be in harmony with some higher order of things. IMO, "spirituality" in the environmentalist community is a derivative of christianity, with a vaguley defined Telos, Entelechy or Universal-Mind-Soul in the place of God. I suspect for some this true and for others it's not. Despite the "deep ecologists" over in the corner, most of what I hear on Sanet seems to be part of the general (primarily social) progressive vision of the enlightenment, a christian derivative. Values like equity, freedom, and health dominate the discussion. It seems quite anthropocentric. Anthropocentricity (at least in the sense of belief that humans are special) does not exclude legitimate concern for other species nor for other elements of the natural environment. > We have to conform to some higher order of things rather > than bend and twist nature to things to fit every whim. This is a statement of the natural law ethics of the movement. The "higher order of things" is the putative guiding hand of Nature (God substitute), and the law is written in the biosphere as opposed to stone tablets. The difficulty IMO, is that reading the "Law" is difficult in practice, and many people do so through the lense of idiosyncratic social theory. This contributes to the anthropocentricity. Important tasks frequently are quite challenging. Lots of different approaches may be worthy of pursuit. > Sustainability ultimately is about intergenerational equity - > to meet the needs of the present while leaving equal or better > opportunities for the future. YES! THAT, is a good definition of sustainability. But it still isn't a big help in the exegesis of natural law. The fact that it's neither simple nor easy doesn't mean that it not worth doing. > Most seem to agree that sustainable systems must be > economically viable, ecologically sound, and socially > responsible. Everybody from the heads of Dupont and Monsanto on down would agree with that statement. The devil is in the details, and it depends on how you interpret natural law, and whether you buy into the concept of natural law. Right. Look for evidence of spirituality as an indicator of whether a "sustainable agriculture" program actually addresses sustainability or is instead an advertising or public relations strategy. > We are concerned about ecological "sustainability" only if we > have some felt need to live in harmony with some higher order > of things - if we are spiritual. What about physicalists (those who do not believe in the existence of a "higher order") but nevertheless do care? I don't know why they would care about something in which they have no individual or shared interest unless they believed that there was some other legitimate reason - something beyond themselves and each other, i.e. some higher order - that provides with an incentive or responsibility to caring. > If we do not believe in a higher order, or do not feel a need > to find harmony with it, there is no logical reason to be > concerned about whether or not people thousands of years from now > will have opportunities equal to or better than we have today. Are you familiar with E.O. Wilson's view that altruism is instinctive, honed by group selection? He is a physicalist and former evangelical christian. Can ethics derived from apparent evolution of altruism (another reading of nature) form a basis for sustainability (intergenerational sense)? I believe that true altruism is a product of spirituality, regardless of how it is logically derived or has culturally evolved. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 17:25:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03103 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24919 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:37:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24900 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:37:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA08818; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:36:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Andrew Marshall" , Subject: RE: seeking info. re: the Fund for Rural America Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:21:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990831122935.00ab0520@cats-po-1.ucsc.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2480 Call Ferd Hoefner at the Sust. Ag Coalition (202) 547-5754 fhoefner@msawg.org and Amy Little, Campaign for Sus Ag (914) 744-8448 campaign@magiccarpet.com Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Marshall Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 3:36 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: seeking info. re: the Fund for Rural America Greetings SANETteers, I am a graduate student in interested in the USDA/ Federal Government's commitment to sustainable and alternative agricultural development as reflected in the political struggles around the 1996 farm bill. I am particularly interested in understanding and locating the rise and fall of the Fund for Rural America as exemplary of this process. I'm wondering if anyone out there help me out with the following questions, or to communicate with me further, or forward this enquiry to people who might: *what was the process by which the FRA was included in the FAIR? *whose idea was it? *who wrote it and lobbied for it? *who spoke on its behalf in congress, and what were their rationales & justifications for its necessity? I would truly appreciate any replies, and thank you all for the work you do on behalf of agricultural and rural sustainability. ******************************************** Andrew Marshall Department of Environmental Studies University of California Santa Cruz CA 95064 ph. 831-459-5647 fax. 831-459-4015 ******************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 17:35:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03304 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29665 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:48:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29608 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15871 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jps.net (216-119-26-166.o1.jps.net [216.119.26.166]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA15653 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CC4DB3.C97E47D7@jps.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:48:36 -0800 From: Eric Gibson Reply-To: egibson@jps.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: The New Farmers Market Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2481 REQUEST FOR SUBMISSIONS The New Farmers Market: 1001 Ways to Make Market Sales Sizzle! by Eric Gibson, author of Sell What You Sow! The New Farmers Market will be based on interviews and questionnaires with successful farmers market producers, farmers and managers around the country. Publication date is January of next year. To receive pricing and ordering information about this new book, send an email request to egibson@jps.net Be sure to include your mailing addressplease also send any additional contacts you feel would be interested. (To see more details, as well as the cover of this book, go to http://www.jps.net/grower/nfm.html). With due regards to my friend Jeff Ishee, who posted an almost identical notice a few weeks ago, I too was about to post a similar request for submissions for a new book on farmers markets! Oh well! Variety only enhances farmers markets, so theres no losers, and the winners will be the farmers and market managers who will soon have some great information on how to find satisfaction and profits from farmers markets. My requests are for: Logos of farmers markets, or photographs of market displays or market events; Best Ideas (1 - 4 paragraphs each) in one or more of the following categories: *Choosing the best products to bring to market (how to stay ahead of trends and the competition); * Display (attractiveness & abundance, product labels, signs, space & color utilization, set-up); *Merchandising (bagging/packaging, recipe & nutrition sheets, pricing); * Selling Tips (sampling, educating customers, relating to customers); * Starting & Promoting the Market (getting the community behind the market, special events, media coverage, setting up an internet web site); * Key issues & challenges & what to do about them: (farmer-grown, market diversity (should you allow crafts?), supermarket competition, buy local campaigns, etc.) Everyone who sends in a logo, photograph or Best Idea receives a Free Shipping offer! Each person submitting material that is used in the book will receive an additional 30 percent-off offer. (Be sure to include your address). Each person who submits material that receives a 5-Lettuce rating in the book receives a free copy! Deadline for submissions is Nov. 15, 1999. Send them to Eric Gibson, 11543 Quartz Dr. #1, Auburn CA 95602. Please include a note stating your permission to reprint photographs or logos in the book, The New Farmers Market. Photos and logos will be returned if an SASE is included. Thank you! Eric Gibson New World Publishing egibson@jps.net http://www.jps.net/grower To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 17:45:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03508 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:45:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06467 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:56:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06411 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jps.net (216-119-26-166.o1.jps.net [216.119.26.166]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA16889 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CC4F8F.B4F0BB31@jps.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:56:32 -0800 From: Eric Gibson Reply-To: egibson@jps.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET-MG@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: The New Farmers Market Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2482 REQUEST FOR SUBMISSIONS The New Farmers Market: 1001 Ways to Make Market Sales Sizzle! by Eric Gibson, author of Sell What You Sow! The New Farmers Market will be based on interviews and questionnaires with successful farmers market producers, farmers and managers around the country. Publication date is January of next year. To receive pricing and ordering information about this new book, send an email request to egibson@jps.net Be sure to include your mailing addressplease also send any additional contacts you feel would be interested. (To see more details, as well as the cover of this book, go to http://www.jps.net/grower/nfm.html). With due regards to my friend Jeff Ishee, who posted an almost identical notice a few weeks ago, I too was about to post a similar request for submissions for a new book on farmers markets! Oh well! Variety only enhances farmers markets, so theres no losers, and the winners will be the farmers and market managers who will soon have some great information on how to find satisfaction and profits from farmers markets. My requests are for: Logos of farmers markets, or photographs of market displays or market events; Best Ideas (1 - 4 paragraphs each) in one or more of the following categories: *Choosing the best products to bring to market (how to stay ahead of trends and the competition); * Display (attractiveness & abundance, product labels, signs, space & color utilization, set-up); *Merchandising (bagging/packaging, recipe & nutrition sheets, pricing); * Selling Tips (sampling, educating customers, relating to customers); * Starting & Promoting the Market (getting the community behind the market, special events, media coverage, setting up an internet web site); * Key issues & challenges & what to do about them: (farmer-grown, market diversity (should you allow crafts?), supermarket competition, buy local campaigns, etc.) Everyone who sends in a logo, photograph or Best Idea receives a Free Shipping offer! Each person submitting material that is used in the book will receive an additional 30 percent-off offer. (Be sure to include your address). Each person who submits material that receives a 5-Lettuce rating in the book receives a free copy! Deadline for submissions is Nov. 15, 1999. Send them to Eric Gibson, 11543 Quartz Dr. #1, Auburn CA 95602. Please include a note stating your permission to reprint photographs or logos in the book, The New Farmers Market. Photos and logos will be returned if an SASE is included. Thank you! Eric Gibson New World Publishing egibson@jps.net http://www.jps.net/grower To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 19:15:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06196 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10070 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:41:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09984 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool0790.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.173.25]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA08933; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990831125446.0082a100@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:54:46 -0700 To: Bargyla Rateaver , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: Re: Position Open @ Cal Poly's CRS In-Reply-To: <37CB3EE3.6CA2A17E@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19990825205247.008aec10@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19990829133322.0082f820@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2483 Thanks for writing again Bargyla, You're only 83? Did you know 'Colonel Sanders' didn't open his first chicken restaurant until he was 65? He was active into his 90's, and is still the most recognized man on earth. If you are enjoying your retirement, please consider your acolytes. Surely one of your students has a background in Permaculture, and can help guide the people at the John T Lyle Center for Regenerative Studies. The 20-member intentional community needs an experienced farmer who can help them grow a year-round harvest. The soil, compost, water, animals, and labor is all there, but they need a permaculturist with experience. Please pass the word to people you deem worthy. I connected with Bonnie the secretary at JTLCRS. Everything is supposed to go through her office, so she usually knows what's happening. Bonnie Namanny Tel: 909-869-5155 Fax: 909-869-5188 According to her, the JTLCRS is running an ad for the position of Land Technician. She thinks it was renamed as Site Technician, running as an emergency temporary position for now. They do plan to run it as a full-time probationary appointment very soon. You can call Human Resource Services at (909) 869-3733 for the details. I couldn't find it at their website yesterday, but maybe it was my oversight. visit http://www.csupomona.edu/~hrs/ The hilltop Center is public property, and everyone is welcome to come up and wander around. Tours are free, but must be scheduled with Bonnie. Students are living there now, and they are always friendly and happy to show people around. As I understand it, this position may fill at any time. I think that's what 'emergency' means. Email and phone Paul Sommers. He's supposed to be chairing the search committee. Paul Sommers Tel: 760-944-8551 Fax: 909-869-5188 >> Cal Poly's Center for Regenerative Studies >> http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~crs/ is seeking >> qualified candidates for the position of Land >> Technician. Candidates should have practical hands-on >> skills in operating a food system based on >> regenerative practices. CV's may be send to the Office >> of the Director (909) 869-5188. >> >> Paul Sommers >> Outreach Coordinator To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 19:17:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06223 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11128 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:42:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11050 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [204.119.60.33] (gl-ppp13.hevanet.com [204.119.60.33]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA03623 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908312241.PAA03623@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:55:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2484 I've been to places like Findhorn and have seen the connection between the spiritual and the physical world, so while I don't dispute the need for discussing all this, it would seem fitting that the philosophical side might be better covered in a separate list and leave this list for the physical side. The spiritual side makes for some fascinating discoveries, but I think the people on this list probably joined it more for the physical aspects that they can apply in their growing practices. In brief, how about starting a new list and let this one go back to it's basic purpose. ---------- >From: "Ikerd, John E." >To: "'Wilson, Dale'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: RE: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) >Date: Tue, Aug 31, 1999, 1:17 PM > >Dale > >Some brief responses below. > >John Ikerd > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wilson, Dale [mailto:WILSONDO@phibred.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 10:36 AM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Cc: 'Ikerd, John E.' > Subject: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) > > John, > > > Spirituality and religion are not the same things - > > although we are not likely to have a discussion of one > > without the other. To me, spirituality simply means a > > felt need to be in harmony with some higher order of >things. > > IMO, "spirituality" in the environmentalist community is a >derivative of > christianity, with a vaguley defined Telos, Entelechy or >Universal-Mind-Soul > in the place of God. > > I suspect for some this true and for others it's not. > > Despite the "deep ecologists" over in the corner, most > of what I hear on Sanet seems to be part of the general >(primarily social) > progressive vision of the enlightenment, a christian >derivative. Values > like equity, freedom, and health dominate the discussion. >It seems quite > anthropocentric. > > Anthropocentricity (at least in the sense of belief that >humans are special) does not exclude legitimate concern for other species >nor for other elements of the natural environment. > > > > We have to conform to some higher order of things rather > > than bend and twist nature to things to fit every whim. > > This is a statement of the natural law ethics of the >movement. The "higher > order of things" is the putative guiding hand of Nature (God >substitute), > and the law is written in the biosphere as opposed to stone >tablets. The > difficulty IMO, is that reading the "Law" is difficult in >practice, and many > people do so through the lense of idiosyncratic social >theory. This > contributes to the anthropocentricity. > > Important tasks frequently are quite challenging. Lots of >different approaches may be worthy of pursuit. > > > Sustainability ultimately is about intergenerational >equity - > > to meet the needs of the present while leaving equal or >better > > opportunities for the future. > > YES! THAT, is a good definition of sustainability. But it >still isn't a big > help in the exegesis of natural law. > > The fact that it's neither simple nor easy doesn't mean that >it not worth doing. > > > Most seem to agree that sustainable systems must be > > economically viable, ecologically sound, and socially > > responsible. > > Everybody from the heads of Dupont and Monsanto on down >would agree with > that statement. The devil is in the details, and it depends >on how you > interpret natural law, and whether you buy into the concept >of natural law. > > Right. Look for evidence of spirituality as an indicator of >whether a "sustainable agriculture" program actually addresses >sustainability or is instead an advertising or public relations strategy. > > > We are concerned about ecological "sustainability" only if >we > > have some felt need to live in harmony with some higher >order > > of things - if we are spiritual. > > What about physicalists (those who do not believe in the >existence of a > "higher order") but nevertheless do care? > > I don't know why they would care about something in which >they have no individual or shared interest unless they believed that there >was some other legitimate reason - something beyond themselves and each >other, i.e. some higher order - that provides with an incentive or >responsibility to caring. > > > If we do not believe in a higher order, or do not feel a >need > > to find harmony with it, there is no logical reason to be > > concerned about whether or not people thousands of years >from now > > will have opportunities equal to or better than we have >today. > > Are you familiar with E.O. Wilson's view that altruism is >instinctive, honed > by group selection? He is a physicalist and former >evangelical christian. > Can ethics derived from apparent evolution of altruism >(another reading of > nature) form a basis for sustainability (intergenerational >sense)? > > I believe that true altruism is a product of spirituality, >regardless of how it is logically derived or has culturally evolved. > > > Dale > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 20:28:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07306 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26311 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:57:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA26218 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id SAA29358; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:56:09 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma029121; Tue, 31 Aug 99 18:55:11 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:55:13 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:55:11 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FED9@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:55:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2485 Lon, > In brief, how about starting a new list and let this one go > back to it's basic purpose. I can see both sides to this, but you are probably right, SANET should be more technical in scope. I'll back out of the spirituality thread. But no need to start a list, there are already relevant lists. One suggestion is a large, but relatively inactive public listserver called ecopsychology run out of St John's University. Discussion of spiritual aspects of environmentalism is central to that list. To get on that list send a message to: LISTSERV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU leave the subject line blank. In the body of the message field type: SUB ECOPSYCHOLOGY Another list is a small (20-30 member) private list, a splinter from the above list (IMO the most interesting people are in the splinter). The little list is very active, personal, and challenging. Almost nothing is out of bounds. If anyone is interested contact me privately. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 21:03:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07840 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21602 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:36:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cpmt2.cyberport.net (IDENT:0@[206.100.148.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21591 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:36:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (tc4-1-7.cyberport.net [208.168.121.118]) by cpmt2.cyberport.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA07667 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909010035.SAA07667@cpmt2.cyberport.net> Reply-To: From: "Joe Brenneman" To: Subject: Buckwheat for forage Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:48:23 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2486 Greetings, Can anyone tell me if Buckwheat can be chopped and ensiled to be used as a forage crop. Actually, I guess I know that it can be chopped and used, I'm wondering if it has any nutritional value as such and if so when should it be whacked down? Thanks, Joe Brenneman Two Dog Dairy Kalispell MT To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 21:12:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07962 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25770 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:47:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from purple.tmn.com (purple.tmn.com [205.177.137.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25751 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tmn.com ([164.106.173.25]) by purple.tmn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21653; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37CC7462.6DBF476D@tmn.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:33:38 -0400 From: tabeles Reply-To: tabeles@tmn.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lon J. Rombough" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) References: <199908312241.PAA03623@hevanet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2487 "Lon J. Rombough" wrote, in a very small part: > The spiritual side makes for some fascinating discoveries, but I think > the people on this list probably joined it more for the physical aspects > that they can apply in their growing practices. > In brief, how about starting a new list and let this one go back to it's > basic purpose. ---------------------------------------------------- As I mentioned earlier, this list seems to value what might be termed the pragmatic over the more subjective or spirtual side of agriculture. We must, though, give pause and ask why when many of the practices in the organic and sustainable arena up to a few years ago were considered to be in this latter camp with no rationale or "scientific" basis. The movement has fought long and hard to be able to sit pare passu with the "scientists" and have their ideas considered equally with conventional wisdom that they are reluctant to admit those further out of fears not fully articulated. Yet we know that science does not discover via a logically/rational path; but uses that "argument" to validate what started out as a fringe speculation, yet to be admitted to the world of the Academy. We have seen this with the organic/sustainable movement in agriculture. Can this list afford to ignore the heritage and sell this soul for the king's shilling of conventional acceptance? Can metaphysics be stripped out and agriculture reduced to a "science" thoughts? tom abeles To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 22:48:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17012 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:48:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18404 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18391 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:12:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09295 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA01471 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:11:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Nature Spirit [new mailing list by this name just formed] In-Reply-To: <199908312241.PAA03623@hevanet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2488 On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Lon J. Rombough wrote: > I've been to places like Findhorn and have seen the connection between the > spiritual and the physical world, so while I don't dispute the need for > discussing all this, it would seem fitting that the philosophical side might > be better covered in a separate list and leave this list for the physical > side. The spiritual side makes for some fascinating discoveries, but I think > the people on this list probably joined it more for the physical aspects > that they can apply in their growing practices. > In brief, how about starting a new list and let this one go back to it's > basic purpose. Done. For those in sanet wanting one for their very own use I have just formed Nature Spirit. Thanks to Dale Wilson for coming up with this name; it appealed to me instantly and I wondered why I hadn't created such a list a long time ago. Its time has come. It is open to anyone but you have to be a subscriber to post and see who else is on the list. Our Lyris server offers many advantages over much other list software, it is accessable via the web, by email or as a newsgroup. I like the newsgroup interface because it is fast and displays attached graphics and offers d/l of sound files (I'd love to get a post from John Lozier with attached sound file of him playing his harp, to listen to at dusk as I look out over my fields). If those interested prefer a different name for the list I can easily make the change. Posting ID is: nature-spirit@franklin.oit.unc.edu Access: ------- Subscribing over the web is easier than by email. General information: http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt Access is also possible at: http://matalab.unc.edu/london Over the web (homepage for the list): http://franklin.oit.unc.edu/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=nature-spirit By email: nature-spirit@franklin.oit.unc.edu (or email me, london@metalab.unc.edu, for help) As a secure newsgroup: news://franklin.oit.unc.edu/nature-spirit Or add MetaLab's Lyris NNTP newsserver to your news client: franklin.oit.unc.edu/nature-spirit (you have to be subscribed to post but anyone may freely read> Lawrence London london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 22:48:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17013 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:48:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20332 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:16:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20217 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26800 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:46:31 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: CAREFUL!!! qiaoxh@public.sti.ac.cn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2489 Folks, I advise caution with Qiao Xiao Hong's message headered Subject: Please open the file. (The announcement of the international meeting.) The attached file is a Word file. Word files carry macro viruses. Don't open this file unless you're prepared to risk a macro virus. *NEVER* open a Word file unless you are prepared to take this risk. I don't know who this person is, and the message is not signed. I'm assuming that you all got a copy, since the TO: field carries what looks like an alias. It's a good idea to cut and paste copy into e-mail messages, rather than attach files like this. Some mailing lists do not even allow attachments, for this reason and bandwidth ones. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove you don't need it. --Bob Hope To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 23:09:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17219 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01497 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:34:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net [207.172.11.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01484 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:34:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maxam.bluefin.net (maxam.bluefin.net [205.162.64.241]) by gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with SMTP id WAA05088 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909010233.WAA05088@gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net> X-Sender: stevem@pop.nh.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: stevem@nh.ultranet.com (Stephen Maxam) Subject: A suburban sprawl haiku, modified Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2490 A suburban sprawl haiku, modified: 100 houses Planted on 20 acres Can be eaten By termites Carpenter ants And Time To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Aug 31 23:46:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20034 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26395 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:16:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26375 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp115.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.115]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 197D161743; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01f201bef428$abd84860$739144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Lon J. Rombough" , References: <199908312241.PAA03623@hevanet.com> Subject: Re: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:18:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2491 it would be a shame if the farmers planted stuff they could not sell . the physical would get lost wouldn't it. now that even dog food sellers don't want GMOs what are they going to do with all of it. and if it be known that meat eggs and even farmed fish will be eating genetically engineered food and to avoid GMOs don't they also have to stop buying USDA meat and eggs and etc because they are dumping the GMO they can't sell into animal food. Now does that give those that don't want USDA meat yet other reason not to buy it beside the reason of all the hormones and antibiotics.I would think yes---they will be taken in the devices that they have imagined---God works in mysterious way - they can never improve on perfection--they can only mess it up---there is a time and a place for all things --even butterfly's . I think not talking about religious dietary laws and how people feel about what they eat is a mistake that may hurt the grower because he may not be able to get his price.. . so by not wanting to hear how people feel you USDA folks may be giving the farmer bad advice. Farmers are seeing that now. prices are already low low low. and a few are blaming the USDA . so stay there sanet and close your ears. stay there on your high horse. and only talk among yourselves and it will sneak up on you like a thief in the night. close your ears only talk about the physical . what does a 15% increases in product mean if no one wants it. stay there. check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Lon J. Rombough To: Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) > I've been to places like Findhorn and have seen the connection between the > spiritual and the physical world, so while I don't dispute the need for > discussing all this, it would seem fitting that the philosophical side might > be better covered in a separate list and leave this list for the physical > side. The spiritual side makes for some fascinating discoveries, but I think > the people on this list probably joined it more for the physical aspects > that they can apply in their growing practices. > In brief, how about starting a new list and let this one go back to it's > basic purpose. > ---------- . To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 04:04:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27340 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 04:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA29896 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 03:23:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29862 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 03:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11496 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:23:06 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09343 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:23:32 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 1 Sep 99 09:17:40 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 1 Sep 99 09:16:54 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:16:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Lost Consumer Survey Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <85CAD84D00@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id DAA29866 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2492 hello glenn >Does anyone recall a survey done by a national polling organization >which showed that some 50% of consumers were concerned about safe >food issues and that many of them were willing to pay more for >organic and sustainable food? per chance i stumbled over that (from gb), it's not exactly on organic, but more on food health and food "purity" and "natural" food. ---------- Free Radicals and Food Additives Edited by Okezie L. Aruoma and Barry Halliwell University of London King's College Taylor & Francis London & New York - Philadelphia 1991 [..] Levels of concern and issues of priority to consumers have of course changed over time. In 1983 a survey of 968 people by Consumers' Association found that 62% would decide against buying a food because of what they saw in the list of contents on the label. (For socio-economic groups A and B the figure was 74%) When asked what would have to be in the food to stop them buying it: 59% referred to specific additives or additives in general; 35% said specific foods; 10% said soya or meat substitute; 8% said lots of fat or annnal fat; and 61% said sugar. [..] In the following year (1998) a Consumers' Association survey of 1107 adults found that 74% of people asked thought some chemical residues were dangerous to health, and 62% said they were prepared to pay more for food produced without chemical treatment (Consumers' Association, 1988). [..] A 1989 National Opinion Poll/Mintel survey of the attitudes of 933 adults to agrochemicals found 26% wanted to see all agrochemicals banned (30% of women), 45% wanted to see agrochemicals significantly reduced, 33% claimed they would be prepared to pay up to 10% more for organic produce, and 15% claimed to be prepared to pay premiums of more than 25% for organic produce (National Opinion Poll/Mintel, 1989). [..] A Consumers' Association Survey of 1477 shoppers' views on organic food in 1989 found that of the 22% who had purposely bought organic food, 20% said that freedom from chemicals or residues was their main reason for buying (of the 78% who had never bought it, 27% were put off by it's higher price and 19% were happy with conventional food) (Consumers' Association, 1990a). [..] International comparison The Gallup surveys in mid-1990 found that people in the USA had broadly similar concerns to People in the UK, despite significant differences in cultural eating habits and publicity about food issues. The survey of Americans found that most were worried about the quality of their diet. One in four said they were taking more heed of food warnings and nutrition advice (Gallup, 1990a). The equivalent UK survey of almost 1000 people found that, in some cases, British consumers were more willing than Americans to change their diets in accordance with health advice. [..] 1.4. UK and USA comparison: almost 1000 people in the UK and 1225 people in the USA were asked 'what efforts are you personally making to..' avoid certain food items or to eat more of others (Don't know' replies have been omitted) (Gallup. 1990a) --------------------------------------------------------------- UK USA| UK USA | Eat green vegetables | Avoid food with a lot of fat? Strong effort 65 59 | Strong effort 52 57 Some effort 25 28 | Some effort 27 30 No effort 10 13 | No effort 20 13 | | Avoid food with additives? | Avoid red meat? Strong effort 36 30 | Strong effort 21 28 Some effort 34 40 | Some effort 21 37 No effort 30 29 | No effort 57 35 | | Avoid a lot of salt/sodium? | Eat foods high in fiber? Strong effort 37 49 | Strong effort 51 43 Some effort 27 29 | Some effort 30 39 No effort 35 21 | No effort 19 17 | | Avoid beverages with caffeine?| Eat a wide variety of food? Strong effort 23 32 | Strong effort 62 54 Some effort 22 29 | Some effort 29 36 No effort 55 41 | No effort 8 10 | | Eat fresh food and vegetables?| Avoid high cholesterol? Strong effort 74 63 | Strong effort 38 49 Some effort 20 30 | Some effort 33 32 No effort 6 7 | No effort 29 18 | | Avoid foods with lot of sugar?| Avoid fried foods? Strong effort 42 45 | Strong effort 48 41 Some effort 30 35 | Some effort 27 38 No effort 25 20 | No effort 25 18 | -------------------------------+------------------------------------ | [..] Research in Ireland suggests that consumers experience a hierarchy of concerns: there is usually less concern about intrinsic, basic food components; greater concern with the impact of processing (added salt, added sugar and fibre lost by processing); and greatest concern about additives and contam- inants (Nash, 1988). There are some deviations from this hierarchy of concerns, which indicates that other factors are involved. Nash suggests that the level of concern is related to the perceived degree of control which a consumer has over the status of the food. When a consumer is presented with a range of products which can be evaluated for quality and wholesomeness by inspection, and when the products are fully labelled, the consumer is in reasonable control of the choice. [..] Extraneous 'contaminants', which may include veterinary drug residues, pesticide residues, small chemical changes caused by irradiation and microorgamsms, are possibly a source of greater concern to many consumers because they cannot be spotted by looking at food. At present, information and education about food issues are inadequate, so it is not very surprising if consumers sometimes get their priorities wrong. [..] Consumer confidence Concerns about food are not likely to disappear while significant numbers of consumers feel that food is not being produced in the way it could or should be. New concerns are already in embryonic state: mycotoxins, products of biotechnology, new preservation processes, nutritional implications of caloriefree ingredients and environmental effects of food packaging, to name a few. Both consumer organizations and food producers will always be fire-fighting until we solve the basic problem, which is that consumers no longer have faith in the government to ensure that food is as safe as it can reasonably be. The long-term aim must be to restore consumer confidence in decisionmaking processes. Slick public-relations campaigns and bland reassurances are not a lasting solution. The regulatory systems need to be made much more open so that consumers can see clearly the basis on which decisions are made. Consumers and their representatives should be allowed access to safety data [..] References (excerpt) CONSUMERS' ASSOCIATION, (1987), Consumer attitudes to food irradiation: report of a general public survey, London: Consumers' Association. FDS MARKFT RESEARCH GROUP, (1990), reported in Today, 18 May. GALLUP, (1990a), survey reported in Daily Telegraph, 7 June. HARRIS RESEARCH CENTRE, (1989), Survey reported in The Grocer, 21 October. Marketing, (1989), 'Crisis in food', 26 October, London. NASH, P., (1988), Proceedings of the Conference on Pure Food Production, Dublin: The Agricultural Institute. PRESTO and KMS, (1986), Eating What Comes Naturally, Middlesex: Argyll Stores, RIMMER, J., (1989), Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Information Bureau 'The environmentally aware consumer', Farm Shop and Pick Your Own conference, November. COX, B. D., BLAXTER, M., BUCKLEY, A. FEHNER, N. P., GOLDING, J., GORE, M., HUPPERT, F. A., NICKSON, J., ROTH, M., STARK, J., WARDWORTH, M. E. J. and WHICHELOW, M., (1987), The Health and Life Style Survey, The Health Promotion Research Trust. --------------- klaus wiegand +-[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]---------+ | | | Dear Mrs, Mr, Miss or Mr and Mrs Daneeka, | | Words cannot express the deep personal grief | | I experienced when your husband, son, father | | or brother was killed, wounded or reported | | missed in action. | | Joseph Heller - Catch 22 | +---------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 07:10:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28286 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:10:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA01894 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:39:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01828 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 06:39:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA13913 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:39:24 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10695 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:40:20 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 1 Sep 99 12:33:57 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 1 Sep 99 12:33:56 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:33:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Lost Consumer Survey Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <89138678C4@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2493 small correction [..] In the following year (1998) a Consumers' Association survey of ^^^^^ this must read : 1988 !! da*n ocr.... klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 10:05:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00237 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01812 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:08:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01751 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp56.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.156]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA12078 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:02:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002a01bef47a$cb25eb80$9c4b2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: References: Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1264 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:06:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2494 Dear Guillermo, Am sorry to hear you will miss the IOIA training. It seems a wonderful opportunity, not just to become an inspector, but to learn the nuts-n-bolts of organic certification. Especially for, say, a company who might be expanding into organic food processing, that would benefit greatly from having an employee who was versed in the rules & regs of organic production standards. Regarding internships at Claymont (see www.claymont.org) I would recommend it to anyone seeking a biodynamic/organic learning experience with a spiritual flavor. The community there is extremely diverse & the facility hosts visitor groups which gather for training, retreat, or celebration. I encountered Pagans, Tibetan Buddhists, and was exposed to the residents' spiritual leanings toward The Fourth Way. The facility itself is rich in history & lore which makes for interesting talk with the community members. You can plan on working hard, learning a great deal, and eating great food, as the food is quite wonderful. I suspect you can learn more about the details of internship from the Biodynamic website http://www.igg.com/bdnow/menu.html or you can attend the Mid-Atlantic BD conference there & gather your impressions before committing to apprenticeship. Regards, Julie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 10:05:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00242 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:05:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02907 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:11:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (gaes.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.200]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02862 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:11:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sareace6 (sareace6.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.69]) by gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA23172 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909011310.JAA23172@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu> From: "John Mayne" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:11:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Southern SARE Producer Grants Reply-to: jmayne@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2495 SOUTHERN REGION SARE PROGRAM announces: The 2000 Southern Region SARE Producer Grant Call for Proposals has been released. Any producer or producer organization in the US SOUTHERN REGION is eligible to apply for a Southern Region SARE Producer Grant. The Southern Region is comprised of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Puerto Rico and the U.S.Virgin Islands. Producer Grants are awarded for a maximum of $10,000, are competitive, and the projects must promote sustainable agriculture. Full information can be found in the application packet. To have a Producer Grant Call for Proposals sent to you please call: (770) 412-4787. The Southern Region SARE Producer Grant Call for Proposals can also be downloaded from the web at http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare/ If you have any questions about the Southern SARE Producer Grant Program, please contact: John C. Mayne, Ph.D. Producer Grants Coordinator Southern Region SARE Program 1109 Experiment Street Griffin, GA 30223-1797 Ph: (770) 229-3350 jmayne@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 10:13:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00399 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08123 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:18:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08025 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:18:05 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DDE8@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:18:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2496 Sanet; Who owns this list? Who decides whether or not a list that carries the name sustainable agriculture is a place to discuss sustainable agriculture, in all of its dimensions, or is limited to discussion of the physical dimensions of sustainable agriculture - thereby excluding its social and ecological (i.e. spiritual) dimensions? Perhaps there should be another list for those who wish to discuss only the physical dimensions of sustainability. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Lon J. Rombough [mailto:lonrom@hevanet.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 4:55 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) I've been to places like Findhorn and have seen the connection between the spiritual and the physical world, so while I don't dispute the need for discussing all this, it would seem fitting that the philosophical side might be better covered in a separate list and leave this list for the physical side. The spiritual side makes for some fascinating discoveries, but I think the people on this list probably joined it more for the physical aspects that they can apply in their growing practices. In brief, how about starting a new list and let this one go back to it's basic purpose. ---------- >From: "Ikerd, John E." >To: "'Wilson, Dale'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: RE: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) >Date: Tue, Aug 31, 1999, 1:17 PM > >Dale > >Some brief responses below. > >John Ikerd > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wilson, Dale [mailto:WILSONDO@phibred.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 10:36 AM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Cc: 'Ikerd, John E.' > Subject: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) > > John, > > > Spirituality and religion are not the same things - > > although we are not likely to have a discussion of one > > without the other. To me, spirituality simply means a > > felt need to be in harmony with some higher order of >things. > > IMO, "spirituality" in the environmentalist community is a >derivative of > christianity, with a vaguley defined Telos, Entelechy or >Universal-Mind-Soul > in the place of God. > > I suspect for some this true and for others it's not. > > Despite the "deep ecologists" over in the corner, most > of what I hear on Sanet seems to be part of the general >(primarily social) > progressive vision of the enlightenment, a christian >derivative. Values > like equity, freedom, and health dominate the discussion. >It seems quite > anthropocentric. > > Anthropocentricity (at least in the sense of belief that >humans are special) does not exclude legitimate concern for other species >nor for other elements of the natural environment. > > > > We have to conform to some higher order of things rather > > than bend and twist nature to things to fit every whim. > > This is a statement of the natural law ethics of the >movement. The "higher > order of things" is the putative guiding hand of Nature (God >substitute), > and the law is written in the biosphere as opposed to stone >tablets. The > difficulty IMO, is that reading the "Law" is difficult in >practice, and many > people do so through the lense of idiosyncratic social >theory. This > contributes to the anthropocentricity. > > Important tasks frequently are quite challenging. Lots of >different approaches may be worthy of pursuit. > > > Sustainability ultimately is about intergenerational >equity - > > to meet the needs of the present while leaving equal or >better > > opportunities for the future. > > YES! THAT, is a good definition of sustainability. But it >still isn't a big > help in the exegesis of natural law. > > The fact that it's neither simple nor easy doesn't mean that >it not worth doing. > > > Most seem to agree that sustainable systems must be > > economically viable, ecologically sound, and socially > > responsible. > > Everybody from the heads of Dupont and Monsanto on down >would agree with > that statement. The devil is in the details, and it depends >on how you > interpret natural law, and whether you buy into the concept >of natural law. > > Right. Look for evidence of spirituality as an indicator of >whether a "sustainable agriculture" program actually addresses >sustainability or is instead an advertising or public relations strategy. > > > We are concerned about ecological "sustainability" only if >we > > have some felt need to live in harmony with some higher >order > > of things - if we are spiritual. > > What about physicalists (those who do not believe in the >existence of a > "higher order") but nevertheless do care? > > I don't know why they would care about something in which >they have no individual or shared interest unless they believed that there >was some other legitimate reason - something beyond themselves and each >other, i.e. some higher order - that provides with an incentive or >responsibility to caring. > > > If we do not believe in a higher order, or do not feel a >need > > to find harmony with it, there is no logical reason to be > > concerned about whether or not people thousands of years >from now > > will have opportunities equal to or better than we have >today. > > Are you familiar with E.O. Wilson's view that altruism is >instinctive, honed > by group selection? He is a physicalist and former >evangelical christian. > Can ethics derived from apparent evolution of altruism >(another reading of > nature) form a basis for sustainability (intergenerational >sense)? > > I believe that true altruism is a product of spirituality, >regardless of how it is logically derived or has culturally evolved. > > > Dale > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 10:54:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01159 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:54:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27289 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:01:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27265 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA15876; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:00:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: Cc: "Renske" , "Ritchie Mark" , "Vuarin Pierre" Subject: URGENT request for support of French Farmers Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:42:34 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DDE8@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2497 I have been asked by French friends to organize, today, a real and symbolic show of US support for the French farmers who have been jailed for protesting the confiscatory US tarrifs that were imposed in a trade war over the EU's ban on beef raised with hormones. The original 5 French farmers arrested face bail and penalties of about $17,500 apiece. I am personally pledging $200. Please, if you are willing to contribute, let me know today, Wednesday, before midnight, how much. I will let you know where and how to send your contribution. It may be partially or wholly returned if not needed, but don't count on it. Please also let me know if you are willing for your name and/or organization to be used in a press conference in France tomorrow or Friday. This is personal for me. My wife and I helped one of the farmers, Jose Bove, milk his 250 sheep last summer. Their milk goes to make Roquefort cheese, one of the commodities upon which the US government is slapping a huge tarrif. These farmers work in a high rocky region that is really only suitable for grazing sheep. They work hard and make a very high quality product. Up until the early 1980s Jose and his neighbors in the Larzac waged a struggle against the French army, which announced in 1971 that they were seizing the land for a nuclear base. The farmers eventually won the fight, and the social cohesion that resulted from those years of up-hill movement-building has yielded local leadership that is now willing to take on Novartis, Monsanto and the US government over the adulteration and homogenization of food and culture. In my opinion, they are global leaders and not just French leaders. Our US voice in support will make a difference, in the media, in our own hearts, and to our colleagues in Europe. Even very small gifts will make a large impact. Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 10:56:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01227 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26955 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:00:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26924 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA00713; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:25:05 GMT Message-ID: <37CD2908.F8DFFB02@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:24:24 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: manure & food safety Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2498 Manure from hog and dairy holding ponds (solids and liquids - usually slurried) is commonly pumped onto crop, hay, and (less so) pasture fields. Used properly it is a valuable source of nutrients for farmers and recovers much of the cost that they put into (and through) their animals, while lessening the cost of buying commercial fertilizers (thereby lessening the mining of raw materials, use of natural gas, etc). Using manures in nothing new. Composting of liquid manure systems is not needed, but composting of dry systems is, especially for chicken and turkey houses, especially since the litter also contains dead birds. There are several very good designs for handling solid or liquid animal wastes safely. (Notice that I have not said anything about using human waste, and won't) However, as has been alluded too, improper use of animal manures can and does cause significant water quality problems. Applying manure on frozen ground, steep slopes, just prior to significant rainfall, or on land that is fequently flooded can all cause major problems for water quality. Also, the field(s) being used for such manure disposal should also be tested regularly for phosophorous loading and nitrate leaching. If a farmers is close to a urbanizing area he/she can expect trouble from non-farming neighbors that are downwind of the manure application. In such a case, broadcast spraying might not be the best method, going instead to an injection system. This is only the briefest of comments on use of animal manures in farming operations. For more detailed information there are many good publications and expert people sources at colleges of agriculture, the Agriculture Research Service, Extension Service, and Natural Resources Conservation Service, to name but a few. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 11:02:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01606 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08497 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:23:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08462 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [198.5.254.209] (br-ppp03.hevanet.com [198.5.254.209]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA03812; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909011422.HAA03812@hevanet.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (297) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 07:26:32 -0700 Subject: FW: Preventing Spread of Mexican Rice Borer From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , AGRISYNERGY Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2499 This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Preventing Spread of Mexican Rice Borer Date: Wed, Sep 1, 1999, 6:55 AM STORY LEAD: Louisiana and Texas Cooperate to Prevent Spread of Mexican Rice Borer ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Jim De Quattro, (301) 504-1626, jdequatt@asrr.arsusda.gov September 1, 1999 ----------- Scientists with the Agricultural Research Service and Louisiana State University Agricultural Center are working with scientists in Texas to prevent Mexican rice borers from spreading to Louisiana. Traps to detect rice borer moths have been placed in the Beaumont, Texas, area and selected Louisiana locations. The rice borer, Eoreuma loftini, is native to Mexico and was first detected in south Texas in 1980. It costs sugarcane growers in the Lower Rio Grande Valley of Texas about $10 million to $20 million a year in lost yields. The pest also attacks rice, sorghum, wheat and forage grasses. The borer is now a concern in Louisiana because of a new sugarcane plantation in Beaumont, Texas. Sugarcane from the area will be sent by rail to Louisiana for grinding, but scientists hope to intercept the moths before the cane is shipped. Young rice borer larvae feed on and in leaf sheaths. They also bore into stalks, which sometimes break. As the insect bores through the cane, it becomes packed with feeding debris and excrement. This helps shield the larva from chemical and biological controls. The adult, about the size of a horsefly, escapes to mate. The traps will release a synthetic version of the female rice borer's natural sex attractant, or pheromone. This gaseous compound, developed by ARS scientists, will lure male moths into the traps. If scientists find moths in the traps, they will determine the extent of the invasion. Finding any moths could lead to an automatic suspension of Beaumont sugarcane shipments to Louisiana. Scientists hope cultural controls and natural predators will prevent further expansion of the insect. Michael Way of Texas A&M University and Texas Department of Agriculture officials have placed traps in Jefferson, Chambers and Liberty counties in Texas. William White with ARS' Sugarcane Research Unit in New Orleans and T.E. Regan of Louisiana State University will set traps in Louisiana and supervise the program. ARS is the USDA's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: William White, Sugarcane Research Unit, ARS Southern Regional Research Center, New Orleans, La., phone (504) 853-3176 ext. 176, fax (504) 868-8369, wwhite@nola.srrc.usda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 11:21:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02097 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20939 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20868 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (root@rac6.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.146]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29265 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac6.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20284 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:50:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jgruv@localhost) by rac6.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20280 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:50:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac6.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:50:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Brooks Gruver To: sanet Subject: innovative use of EQIP funding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2500 Hello to all, Several weeks ago a press release posted on this list included the following: *There has been some support for organic agriculture in the United *States. In Iowa, for example, a state-level program supports organic *farming through the Environmental Quality Incentive Program (EQIP) *that provides targeted financial incentives to farmers. Administered by *the U.S. Department of Agriculture, EQIP is designed to promote *adoption of particular conservation management practices. EQIP is a *federal-state cost-share program in which states designate a list of *conservation management practices. If EQIP funding is increased and *other state legislatures list certified organic production as a *conservation practice, EQIP could play a significant role in increasing *the number of acres farmed organically in the U.S. Can anyone provide additional information about the process through which EQIP funds are used to support organic production in Iowa ? I know that the focus in MD is to use EQIP money to promote adoption of buffer strips. How flexible is the USDA's EQIP program ? Is it administered completely by state officials ? Are any states other than Iowa using EQIP money to specifically support organic production ? Can any one comment on other innovative uses of USDA subsidy programs to support adoption of "sustainable" management practices ? Joel Gruver Agroecology instructor Center for Agriculture, Food and the Environment Tufts University To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 12:04:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03114 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05515 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:23:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05503 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.7.3) id LAA22353 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:21:59 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;37CD43A2.7F18.5FD5.000] Content-Identifier: Community Agricu UA-Content-Id: Community Agricu Autoforwarded: FALSE Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:17:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:17:00 -0400 From: Marc Safley Subject: Community Agricuture To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <37CD43A2.7F18.5FD5.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-supplement)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2501 Good morning, SANETers, World Food Day is approaching and there are plans for a National Summit on Community Food Security held October 14-15 in Chicago and at other sites around the country. Community gardens, community supported agriculture, sustainable agriculture, etc. are among the means that could cut American hunger and food insecurity in half by the year 2015. If you have had experience with community gardens or CSA , then what are the points you would pass along to community groups considering whether or not to get into these types of activities or arrangements? Can success be learned? Thank you for sharing your experience. Marc Safley Natural Resources Conservation Service marc.safley@usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 12:11:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03369 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16296 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:49:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16205 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP194.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.106]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10520 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CD4BA9.BE518B04@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:52:09 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Nature Spirit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2502 John, You wrote earlier: "I agree with Anita - even if that only makes two of us. I don't think you can have a meaningful discussing of sustainability that excludes spirituality." Let me say here that I am in agreement with you both about the necessity of including spirituality in a discussion of sustainable ag. (I guess that makes three.) We may even be missing the boat by not having it be the guiding principle. And later you wrote: "Who decides whether or not a list that carries the name sustainable agriculture is a place to discuss sustainable agriculture, in all of its dimensions, or is limited to discussion of the physical dimensions of sustainable agriculture - thereby excluding its social and ecological (i.e. spiritual) dimensions?" What we may need to keep in mind is the history of western philosophy/religion. When western science "discovered" that the earth was not the center of the physical universe and religion was saying that it was, a deal was struck- "Science" would say what goes in the physical world and "Religion" would say what goes in the metaphysical. Hence, our present dualism and the pervasive idea that what we do in the physical world has no impact on the metaphysical and vice versa. Many are still living in this historical perspective. How else can we explain the devastation of our planet and each other? Anyone who comes full circle, back to reuniting their existence, must necessarily put aside justifications and try to look at all actions in a deeper "spiritual" way. In agriculture, this leads us beyond the immediate needs of our bank account to what is the best long-term decision for the health of the land (on which all other health depends). And we must ask the question, "What is in the best interest for all?" Not just, "What will benefit me best?" And you wrote: "Perhaps there should be another list for those who wish to discuss only the physical dimensions of sustainability." I have to say that there is no way to have a discussion on just the physical dimensions of "sustainability" and I'm sure you're aware of this. Sustainable Agriculture, as I've said before, is not about farming techniques. Techniques should be the expression of our deeply held beliefs, not something we think up as better ways to make money. In a truly sustainable system, sust. ag. is only one expression of our spirituality. Where people relate to each other from a spiritual base to determine what our physical relationships should be, it is my belief that there would be no need to discuss the "financial" aspects of sustainability. We would sustain each other. OK, I've crossed the line again to stand beside John and Anita. The choice is to load your ammunition or consider what we have said form a spiritual perspective. Or, as the Zen in me says, "Or not." Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Sep 1 09:21:56 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29420; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17142 for smallfarm-jarude; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:18:57 GMT Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:18:57 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199909011118.LAA17142@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2503 THE NEW FARMERS MARKET Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk To: Multiple Recipients of the List From: Smallfarm-owner Subject: REQUEST FOR SUBMISSIONS The New Farmers Market: 1001 Ways to Make Market Sales Sizzle! by Eric Gibson, author of Sell What You Sow! The New Farmers Market will be based on interviews and questionnaires with successful farmers market producers, farmers and managers around the country. Publication date is January of next year. To receive pricing and ordering information about this new book, send an email request to egibson@jps.net Be sure to include your mailing address. Please send any additional contacts you feel would be interested. (To see more details, as well as the cover of this book, go to http://www.jps.net/grower/nfm.html). My requests are for: o Logos of farmers markets, or photographs of market displays or market events; o "Best Ideas" (1 - 4 paragraphs each) in one or more of the following categories: * Choosing the best products to bring to market (how to stay ahead of trends and the competition); * Display (attractiveness & abundance, product labels, signs, space & color utilization, set-up); * Merchandising (bagging/packaging, recipe & nutrition sheets, pricing); * Selling Tips (sampling, educating customers, relating to customers); * Starting & Promoting the Market (getting the community behind the market, special events, media coverage, setting up an internet web site); * Key issues & challenges & what to do about them: ("farmer-grown," market diversity (should you allow crafts?), supermarket competition, "buy local" campaigns, etc.) Everyone who sends in a logo, photograph or "Best Idea" receives a Free Shipping offer! Each person submitting material that is used in the book will receive an additional 30 percent-off offer. (Be sure to include your address). Each person who submits material that receives a "5-Lettuce" rating in the book receives a free copy! Deadline for submissions is Nov. 15, 1999. Send them to Eric Gibson, 11543 Quartz Dr. #1, Auburn CA 95602. Please include a note stating your permission to reprint photographs or logos in the book, "The New Farmers Market." Photos and logos will be returned if an SASE is included. Thank you! Eric Gibson New World Publishing egibson@jps.net http://www.jps.net/grower -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 13:18:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04801 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12746 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:41:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12571 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:44:25 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: Andy Clark , "Beth1 Holtzman (E-mail)" , "Beth2 Holtzman (E-mail)" , "Bill Wilcke (E-mail)" , Craig Cramer , "Dave Swaim (E-mail)" , Jane Gates , Mickie Swisher , Molly Bartlett , Shirley Harris , "Shirley Harris (home)" , Susan Matsushima , Thor Lindstrom , Tom Larson , Valerie Berton Subject: Ten Years of SARE on the web Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:44:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2504 Colleagues: This month we continue our chapter-by-chapter posting of Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress. It is available on the Web at http://www.sare.org/san/10yrsofsan/ OR go to our home page and click on Publications. http://www.sare.org/ Ten Years of SARE showcases accomplishments of a unique USDA program that has made a difference in the lives of farmers and ranchers across the United States and Island Protectorates. To select a group of innovative, interesting and impactful projects, SARE staff chose one project from each of its four regions for the following 10 categories: Crop Production, Animal Production, Natural Resource Protection, Marketing, Community Development, Education, Pest Management, Horticulture, Professional Development, and Integrated Farm/Ranch Systems. One of the 10 categories will be highlighted each month. September Highlight: Professional Development. These stories describe SARE Professional Development Program (PDP) projects. See http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/sare/funding.html for more information about the PDP program and grants. For a free print version of this colorful, 96-page book, contact me via e-mail or use the contact information below. Be sure to send your mailing address. Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 13:24:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04890 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17262 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17254 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04158 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA02767 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:53:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:53:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) In-Reply-To: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DDE8@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2505 On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Ikerd, John E. wrote: > Perhaps there should be another list for those who wish to discuss only the > physical dimensions of sustainability. There is one at MetaLab called sustainable-agriculture. See http://metalab.unc.edu/london/forumdoc.txt for a complete list of available forums plus access information for each. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 15:49:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07702 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20448 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:07:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20415 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP243.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.5]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27879 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CD7A3B.22A8FA6@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:10:52 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Small scale Threshers & Heirloom Grains Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2506 Someone posted a query about small scale grain harvesting equipment (must have deleted it). I picked up the new Acres USA and on the front is an article on small scale grain harvesting equipment! It includes machines from PTO to walk behind to treadle powered threshers. Acres- PO Box 91299, Austin, TX 78709, 1-800-355-5313. It was written by Eugene Canales, owner of Ferrari Tractor, PO Box 1045, Gridley, CA 95948, 530-846-6401. Also, for heirloom grain seed: Bountiful Gardens, 18001 Shafer Ranch Rd., Willits, CA 95490-9626, or KUSA Seed Foundation, 330 South Pueblo, Ojai CA 93023 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 19:26:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13541 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06898 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:55:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web103.yahoomail.com (web103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA06886 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990901225520.7915.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [131.187.96.252] by web103.yahoomail.com; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:55:20 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:55:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Tammy Fischer Subject: pasture pork To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2507 Hello all I work on an educational farm that has a small--but expanding-- pork operation. We are interested in making the transition from a confinement system to a pasture-based one. We also would like to mix our own feed instead of using commercial pre-mixed feed. I am wondering if anyone has some good recipes for pig chow as well as any pearls of wisdom or piles of caveats for aspiring pasture pork producers like myself. Thanks so much Tammy Fischer Aullwood Audubon Farm, Dayton OH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 1 23:51:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16867 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07164 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:36:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07067 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-5-10.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.10]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA24306; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:28:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199909020328.WAA24306@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Tammy Fischer" , Subject: Re: pasture pork Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:34:08 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2508 I would suggest checking the archives of the SANET. I have posted several times on sources of information for pasture hog production. Best of luck, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer LaGrange, IN visit our farm online at www.grassfarmer ---------- > From: Tammy Fischer > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: pasture pork > Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 5:55 PM > > > Hello all > > I work on an educational farm that has a small--but expanding-- pork > operation. We are interested in making the transition from a > confinement system to a pasture-based one. We also would like to mix > our own feed instead of using commercial pre-mixed feed. > > I am wondering if anyone has some good recipes for pig chow as well as > any pearls of wisdom or piles of caveats for aspiring pasture pork > producers like myself. > > Thanks so much > > Tammy Fischer > > Aullwood Audubon Farm, Dayton OH > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 01:37:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20100 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:37:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA11653 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:18:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA11649 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.171.28.125] ([216.171.28.125] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.7) with ESMTP id S.0000171913 for ; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 00:12:58 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew), PDines@compuserve.com Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:13:09 GMT Subject: genetically altered lettuce in Salinas Valley Message-ID: <1091633150.18754743@greenbuilder.com> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2509 Hi all - An organic farmer ally recently reported that he had heard "that they are about to start planting genetically altered lettuce seed in the Salinas Valley." I have an email in asking if he might have more info on what brand/variety it was. Have you heard anything about this? Also - please feel free to let me know if you have of any Northern California GE plantings, with whatever details and clues you might have. Best regards - Patricia Dines Community Action Publications www.monitor.net/~cap Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:41:52 -0400 From: Patricia Dines Subject: genetically altered lettuce in Salinas Valley -- Green Homes For Sale: http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/ Green Building Pros: http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ Calendar: http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/ Bookstore: http://www.greenbuilder.com/bookstore To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 03:18:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20892 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:18:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19757 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:04:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19745 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:04:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01694; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:41:19 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Physician's guide to pesticide poisoning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2510 Howdy, all-- I was digging around for information on pesticide modes of action (particularly an herbicide MOA site I'd run across about two years ago and later lost track of), and found the following resource, which I found wonderfully concise and jam-packed with good information. Physician's Guide to Pesticide Poisoning (Texas A&M) http://www-aes.tamu.edu/doug/MED/pgpp.htm The Web formatting is more than a little wonky, but if you can get past that, there's a lot to learn here, even for the general reader. I can post the herbicide MOA URLs I dug up, if anyone wants them. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wash your hands after using any pesticide product. --Dow Elanco To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 03:18:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20896 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19753 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:04:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19727 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 03:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01680 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:06:42 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Natural foods consumer study Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2511 Howdy, all-- Glenn enquired about a bit of market research on natural foods buyers that he couldn't track down. Glenn, were you referring to the /Hartman Report: Food and the Environment, A Consumer's Perspective/???? Here's are two places to read synopses: A talk Chuck Benbrook gave at Guelph in January of 1998 http://www.pmac.net/xroad.htm A summary by "New Hope Communications" http://www.nfm-online.com/nfm_backs/Jan_97/news_profiling.html If you want a copy of the report, you have to join The Food Alliance: http://www.thefoodalliance.org/publctns.html peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Let us be thankful we have commerce. Buy more. Buy more now. Buy. And be happy. --OM (/THX 1138/) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 08:25:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22901 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05661 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:01:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05652 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.7.3) id HAA24414 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;37CE65C5.7F18.04E9.000] Content-Identifier: National Summit UA-Content-Id: National Summit Autoforwarded: FALSE Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 7:55:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 7:55:00 -0400 From: Marc Safley Subject: National Summit on Community Food Security To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <37CE65C5.7F18.04E9.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-supplement)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2512 I have had some inquiries for details of the Summit to be held in October. Regrettably, I have no details with the exception of the following web address at which you can find information as it is released: www.reeusda.gov/food_security/summit.htm Marc Safley Natural Resources Conservation Service marc.safley@usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 09:26:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23849 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11423 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:03:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11366 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA29076; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:02:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Sanet" , "IFFS" , "Thompson John" , "Robins, Nick" , "Michael Dimmock" , "Lydon, Betsy" , "Boer Leentje den" , "Granatstein, David" , "Zee Vicki Van" , "Sligh Michael" , "Kane Deborah" , "Vorley Bill" , "Gilje Kathryn" , "Bijl, Gert van der" , "Spencer, Jeneene" Cc: "Renske" , "Ritchie Mark" , "Sligh Michael" Subject: french farmer support update Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:40:10 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2513 Colleagues, If you have already responded, thank you. Two requests for others: 1) we need signatures for a letter to the European press, and 2) there is still another day or two to contribute financially. Even very small gifts matter. All I need is pledges right now. I'll let you know where to send a check. In the last 24 hours we have raised $3,780 from 37 people and organizations to help get Jose Bove out of jail. These donations range from $10 to $1,000. Jose was incarcerated for helping to lead the protest over punitive tarrifs. As I wrote yesterday, Jose and his neighbors milk sheep for Roquefort cheese, one of the products attacked by the US govt. in retaliation for Europe's refusal to admit beef raised with hormones. The real issues are food sovereignty and limits to the global power of corporations. The following is a draft of the statement for which we need signatures: We citizens of the US join our French colleagues in supporting the rights of peoples to feed themselves as they choose. We oppose the attempts of global institutions and national governments to lower food quality and threaten cultural sovereignty. We agree in particular that citizens of all countries and their governments have the right to refuse food with hormones and genetically modified ingredients. We are ourselves farmers, professionals in agricultural organizations, and supporters of family farmers in the US. Farmers everywhere struggle for survival, and we consider Jose Bove and his neighbors to be our neighbors. Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 10:05:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24497 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27668 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:40:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27623 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0111063B@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 9:40:00 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 2 Sep 99 09:39:53 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 2 Sep 99 09:39:52 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:39:49 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: metaphysical talk on Sanet In-reply-to: <199909010725.DAA00060@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <972D0746042@agecon.uga.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2514 > Yet we know that science does not discover via a logically/rational path; but > uses that "argument" to validate what started out as a fringe speculation, yet > to be admitted to the world of the Academy. We have seen this with the > organic/sustainable movement in agriculture. > > Can this list afford to ignore the heritage and sell this soul for the king's > shilling of conventional acceptance? Can metaphysics be stripped out and > agriculture reduced to a "science" > > thoughts? > > tom abeles Thank you so much for this, Tom. I for one do not want a splinter group. That would defeat the whole purpose of this thread, imo. And I have seen at least as much participation on this thread as on prions or the molecular structure of a given pesticide. There will always be some thread that doesn't interest me or is over my head, or, imo, has been covered ad nauseum, but I promise you I won't interject the suggestion that all those interested in X go form their own group and leave the rest of us out of it. The "physical" posts to this list (what cover crop to plant, whether a field of hay should be bailed and sold or left for mulch) seems to me have never been the bulk of the posts anyway (surly someone out their will want to challenge this and do a count!), so I don't think that the comment "this is a list for physical ag posts only" (as Lon Rombough argued) is valid. So what constitutes politically correct non-"physical" posts may have more to do with convention and paradigm than anything else. Is it outside the scope of this list to talk about the economic rationals behind agriculture? Is it outside the scope to discuss animal welfare issues (very hot in the organic National Rules discussion)? If there's no money in CRP, why should farmers conserve soil if crop prices are high and they can make money by planting on marginal lands? I can't see *this* going anywhere but to a "non physical" discussion. I don't need to write about the spiritual aspects of agriculture everyday or every post. But I would like to defend a corner of this list for such issues. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 10:54:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25496 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21473 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:28:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21454 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:27:46 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DDEB@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'agraf@agecon.uga.edu'" , "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: metaphysical talk on Sanet Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:27:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2515 Anita; I wasn't seriously suggesting a new list for discussion of the physical aspects to sustainable agriculture. I was simply suggesting that discussion the physical dimensions of sustainability in the absence of the metaphysical would be no more meaningful that would discussion of the metaphysical without the physical. Like you, I am more than ready to sit back and sort through a lot of comments on the physical dimensions of sustainability for a while to see what I can learn. But, I would like to feel free to comment now and then if I think I have something that might contribute to the discussion. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Anita Graf (Staff) [mailto:agraf@agecon.uga.edu] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 4:40 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: metaphysical talk on Sanet I don't need to write about the spiritual aspects of agriculture everyday or every post. But I would like to defend a corner of this list for such issues. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 11:04:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25634 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23394 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:35:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23378 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA00287 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Sanet" Subject: Is sustainability a useless word? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:11:51 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2516 Dale writes: "Sustainability" is a political code-word, useless for ordinary conversation about biology, cultural practices, or ethics. What do you all think? Clearly the word sustainability is politically loaded. That is, if powerful sectors of our economy, led by powerful people, and supported by powerful politicians, are engaged in activities that are unsustainable, then the concept of sustainability has political meaning. That doesn't make it useless, but it does add multiple layers of meaning and import. I'd argue that the concept also has analytic usefulness, although definitions are tough. The Natural Step folks have one that I don't think has a social dimension. We could at least agree that humankind shouldn't be using up resources faster than they can be regenerated and that we should not be polluting more than can be absorbed. I'm a layperson in these matters, lacking precision I'm sure. And I don't really care whether we lump social concerns within or without the concept of sustainability. I care about equity regardless, for example. But that's another matter. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 12:14:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27096 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22919 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:33:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22870 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:29:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Training opportunity: Organic farming in the Czech Republic - placement Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:29:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2517 I don't have any other information about this program. Use contact information listed below. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Clark Mactavish [mailto:106774.357@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:44 AM To: afsic@nal.usda.gov Subject: Organic farming in the Czech Republic - placement International work / training / study placements. The Clark Mactavish Group are the UK's most active international trainer for the land-based sector. Each year almost 200 people travel to European destinations to undertake practical training and project work. For its work in this area, Clark Mactavish were awarded the Department for Education and Employment's (DfEE) UK National prize entitled 'Celebrating Europe'. Between now and March 2000, we have training opportunities in Hungary, Slovakia, France, Ireland, Germany, Denmark, Iceland, Italy, Cyprus and the Czech Republic. We are URGENTLY seeking candidates to travel to an organic farm near Litomysl in the Czech Republic for a six week training / work experience programme, commencing 20th September 1999. For this placement we are able to access EU funding from the Leonardo da Vinci programme. The funding covers travel, accommodation, three meals per day, insurance and training costs, it is feasible for candidates to attend this programme with no personal funds at all (but not recommended because they would miss social opportunities). Candidates would do enjoyable practical tasks on the farm such as harvesting, gathering fruit, ploughing, hedge laying, woodland work, building renovation using traditional methods, etc. The group size we are seeking is 6 persons. Candidates would fly to Prague and then travel by train - there are opportunities (and funds) to do some extra-curricular visits within the Czech Republic. Interested candidates should telephone as soon as possible and ask for Martin Clark on 016973-21516 or fax on 016973-23040 or E-Mail on 106774.357@compuserve.com. PLEASE DO NOT DELAY - THIS PLACEMENT OPPORTUNITY IS VERY MUCH ON A 'FIRST COME - FIRST SERVED' BASIS. Martin Clark. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 12:33:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27510 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:33:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00621 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:57:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00537 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA00681; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:56:34 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma029139; Thu, 2 Sep 99 10:55:35 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:55:35 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:55:34 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEE0@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Anita Graf (Staff)'" Subject: RE: metaphysical talk on Sanet Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:55:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2518 Anita, > Is it outside the scope of this list to talk about the economic > rationals behind agriculture? Is it outside the scope to discuss > animal welfare issues (very hot in the organic National Rules > discussion)? If there's no money in CRP, why should farmers conserve > soil if crop prices are high and they can make money by planting on > marginal lands? I can't see *this* going anywhere but to a "non > physical" discussion. There is no way to make a clean split between physical, political and spiritual. Underlying all your above examples is the matter of values. Sustainability is all about values and ethics. If we have no discussion of these, it seems like the matter is left hanging. Also, without some consideration of values and motivation, the implication is that everyone who disagrees with any aspect of the sustainable orthodoxy is simply evil. They may just have a technical disagreement. I would recommend that everybody make an effort to include an informative statement on the subject line, demonstrate in your post how your subject is related (somehow) to agriculture, and then don't worry. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 12:45:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27750 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:45:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01930 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:00:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01911 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:00:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s1h3p8 (cust10.tnt1.dial.tor2.uunet.ca [209.47.186.10]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12399 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:58:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-From: jgold@netrover.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990902120649.007dc800@mail.netrover.com> X-Sender: jgold@mail.netrover.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:06:49 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Jeff Gold Subject: Re: Is sustainability a useless word? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2519 Sustainability is an important concept arising from the recognition that all planetary resources are finite, that a constant supply of energy is required to operate geophysical and biological processes and that if the human species overspends its energy or material budget we will all suffer enormous consequences. It is too important a concept to be restricted to any one area of human activity: political, scientific, agricultural or whatever. Sustainability needs to have a spiritual dimension as well. Spirit, indefinable and ephemeral as it may be, is the source of value. We need values to order priorities and inform decisions. Only then can we be conscious co-creators in the material world. Otherwise we are merely another species in the biosphere, subject to pre-existing natural laws and ruled by our initial genetic endowment. The world as we find it, with its great cities, global culture and impressive technology, is a human invention created by the choices of countless individuals over the millennia. We have the power to dream up a different world, and by our choices each and every day we either bring that new world to life or merely perpetuate the world brought to life by our ancestors' dreams. Jeff Gold. At 10:11 AM 9/2/99 -0400, you wrote: >Dale writes: "Sustainability" is a political code-word, useless for ordinary >conversation >about biology, cultural practices, or ethics. > >What do you all think? Clearly the word sustainability is politically >loaded. That is, if powerful sectors of our economy, led by powerful >people, and supported by powerful politicians, are engaged in activities >that are unsustainable, then the concept of sustainability has political >meaning. That doesn't make it useless, but it does add multiple layers of >meaning and import. I'd argue that the concept also has analytic >usefulness, although definitions are tough. The Natural Step folks have one >that I don't think has a social dimension. We could at least agree that >humankind shouldn't be using up resources faster than they can be >regenerated and that we should not be polluting more than can be absorbed. >I'm a layperson in these matters, lacking precision I'm sure. And I don't >really care whether we lump social concerns within or without the concept of >sustainability. I care about equity regardless, for example. But that's >another matter. > >Hal >Hal Hamilton >Center for Sustainable Systems >433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA >Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 >hhamilton@centerss.org > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 12:54:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27926 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07210 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:15:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07153 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id PAA01530; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:41:07 GMT Message-ID: <37CE9A8F.CE4EB033@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:41:04 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Pasture pigs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2520 > > I work on an educational farm that has a small--but expanding-- pork > operation. We are interested in making the transition from a > confinement system to a pasture-based one. We also would like to mix > our own feed instead of using commercial pre-mixed feed. > > I am wondering if anyone has some good recipes for pig chow as well as > any pearls of wisdom or piles of caveats for aspiring pasture pork > producers like myself. > > Thanks so much > > Tammy Fischer > > Aullwood Audubon Farm, Dayton OH > You should be able to find good research as well as practical information on pasture pig farming from your local Extension Service and/or Natural Resources Conservation Service. While both agencies probably deal mostly with confined operations, both should also have information pertaining to pasture management for a wide variety of livestock. You can find them in the phone book - probably under county govt. for Extension, and under U.S. Dept. of Ag. for NRCS. Good luck. BUT, remember that successful pasture management has very little to do with luck. It has to do with MANAGEMENT. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 13:20:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28486 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16990 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:31:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16902 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id AAA11196 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:16:24 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id AAA00778 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 00:52:51 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199909021652.AAA00778@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 02 Sep 99 23:48:23 Subject: organic corn prices To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2521 I am interested in knowing the average price of organic corn, compared to conventional corn, and also to genetically-engineered Bt corn in the U.S. (and elsewhere). I need the figures for the public debates we are now engaged in regarding the field-testing of Bt corn in the Philippines. I would appreciate any info (or URL) in this regard. Second question: some corn farmers have told us that they have a very simple way of dealing with the corn borer: they detassle the corn plants. They insist that this controls the corn borer infestation. I just want to know from this list if anyone knows from experience (or from theory) that this approach will work. If it does, as the farmers I talked to insist, then there really is no reason to go through all that trouble to develop Bt corn, is there? Thank you all. Roberto Verzola To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 13:53:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29034 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02683 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:08:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02667 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id PAA01611; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:54:02 GMT Message-ID: <37CE9D99.B643167B@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:54:01 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Nature Spirit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BDDAAF59A8FA07A7D3E17C14" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2522 --------------BDDAAF59A8FA07A7D3E17C14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Visulize white flag over my head): Okay John, Anita, Alex et al. I humbly agree that agriculture, sustainable or not, does (and should) include a certain degree of spirituality. I think where I was in disagreement on use of sanet for discussions spiritual was with the totally unrelated discussions on whose version or interpretation of the Bible, God, the end of the world, etc. was being ranted upon. Like I said before (paraphrased) if you want to shout at each other from different pews do it somewhere else. That was not to say that discussions spiritual/religious on agriculture do not have a place here. Does anyone understand the difference as I see it? Son of Richard --------------BDDAAF59A8FA07A7D3E17C14 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Visulize white flag over my head):

    Okay John, Anita, Alex et al.  I humbly agree that agriculture, sustainable or not, does (and should) include a certain degree of spirituality.  I think where I was in disagreement on use of sanet for discussions spiritual was with the totally unrelated discussions on whose version or interpretation of the Bible, God, the end of the world, etc. was being ranted upon.  Like I said before (paraphrased) if you want to shout at each other from different pews do it somewhere else.  That was not to say that discussions spiritual/religious  on agriculture do not have a place here.  Does anyone understand the difference as I see it?

    Son of Richard --------------BDDAAF59A8FA07A7D3E17C14-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 13:53:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29035 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10319 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:18:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10308 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-15-5.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.245]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA29191; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:10:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199909021710.MAA29191@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "mike richardson" , Subject: Re: Pasture pigs Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:15:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2523 I got a good laugh out of that one. There are only a couple of land grants in the whole country that have even done ANY work with pastured hogs since the 50's. Of course there are exceptions in the extension profession but they are few and far between. Best wishes, Greg "> > > You should be able to find good research as well as practical > information on pasture pig farming from your local Extension Service > and/or Natural Resources Conservation Service. > > Son of Richard" > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 13:58:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29101 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14121 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:22:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14105 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:21:38 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D01953A1C@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Webb, Kevin" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Is sustainability a useless word? Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:21:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2524 IMO: Sustainability is the foundation, conceptually speaking, upon which we build the more tangible constructs, systems, and methods of our disciplines, whether they be of 'biology, cultural practices, or ethics'. Sustainability is a philosophy, a guiding principle. This is not to say that we cannot label certain very tangible methods, etc. as sustainable. But, they are sustainable because, within a larger framework, they strive towards a common goal: the preservation and rejuvenation of our planets resources (and I mean this in the most inclusive of ways: natural resources, human resources, spiritual resources). That the term sustainable is politically charged does not render it invalid; it is not the first term/concept to be bandied about and continuously re-defined. Yet I think sustainability is unique in this sense because it demands of us to re-define ourselves, both personally and professionally and both as individuals and as a culture. Even as we seek to define it seeks to define us. I believe that we are one the verge of a cultural/social change that will rival the industrial revolution for its historic relevance. The course towards defining sustainability and seeking to manifest it will be rocky, no doubt. But there is nothing worth gaining that is not attained through hard work and struggle. This is as true of a harvest of crops as it is of spiritual enlightenment. Ultimately, sustainability may be best understood within the context of social change. As Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream, so must we. We must dream of fertile fields, healthy families, prosperous communities. This vision then sets the goal, provides the challenge which we all will face in our own ways. The agronomist and the economist may play with different building blocks, but the construction is one whole. Useless? No! Challenging? Oh yes! Thanks for listening to me rant, Kevin Kevin Webb Food Circles Networking Project Department of Rural Sociology University of Missouri-Columbia 105 Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 (573) 882-3776 [573] 882=1473 (fax) webbk@missouri.edu -----Original Message----- From: Hal Hamilton [mailto:hhamilton@centerss.org] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 9:12 AM To: Sanet Subject: Is sustainability a useless word? Dale writes: "Sustainability" is a political code-word, useless for ordinary conversation about biology, cultural practices, or ethics. What do you all think? Clearly the word sustainability is politically loaded. That is, if powerful sectors of our economy, led by powerful people, and supported by powerful politicians, are engaged in activities that are unsustainable, then the concept of sustainability has political meaning. That doesn't make it useless, but it does add multiple layers of meaning and import. I'd argue that the concept also has analytic usefulness, although definitions are tough. The Natural Step folks have one that I don't think has a social dimension. We could at least agree that humankind shouldn't be using up resources faster than they can be regenerated and that we should not be polluting more than can be absorbed. I'm a layperson in these matters, lacking precision I'm sure. And I don't really care whether we lump social concerns within or without the concept of sustainability. I care about equity regardless, for example. But that's another matter. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Sep 2 07:43:09 1999 -0400 Received: from net.bio.net (net.bio.net [198.94.52.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22399 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:43:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id EAA14482 for symbios-list; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 04:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id EAA14477; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 04:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909021144.EAA14477@net.bio.net> To: nobody@net.bio.net X-Really-To: symbios@net.bio.net Newsgroups: bionet.biology.symbiosis Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:50:12 +0200 From: Johannes Woestemeyer Subject: Fungal Phylogeny for PhD students Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2525 Dear colleagues! Please forward this job offer to all those in your vicinity who could be interested in working on molecular phylogeny of fungi: In a project financed by 'Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft' we work on family and order structure of zygomycetes. Based on sequences of protein coding genes from the cellular functions 'cell cycle control', 'cytoskeleton' and 'translational apparatus' we want to add the phylogenetic dimension to a wealth of taxonomic knowledge and expertise in this important fungal group. The position is to be filled beginning of October at the earliest and end of the Winter term at the latest. Knowledge of German language is not required. Experimental working conditions are good. We are technically well equipped and have sound expertise at all levels of cloning and sequencing. Primers for the required genes have been developed and checked in screening experiments. Research is institutionally linked to an independent group at the institute of General Microbiology and Microbial Genetics, the 'Fungal Reference Centre' (FRC). The PhD candidate will be supervised by the FRC leader, Dr. Kerstin Voigt and by myself in close cooperation. Both supervisors have their experimental skills in this and other fields and perform experiments themselves within the project. We expect a highly motivated young colleague, integration into a vivid multidisciplinary institute, some expertise in Genetics and Molecular Biology as well as a feeling for evolutionary biology. Special taxonomic knowledge of fungi is not requested at the beginning. If interested, please send your details to Dr. Voigt or to me: Friedrich-Schiller-Universitaet Jena Lehrstuhl fuer Allgemeine Mikrobiologie und Mikrobengenetik Neugasse 24 D-07743 Jena Email applications are also possible: please direct to b5wojo@rz.uni-jena.de I will call back for further details or in order to make appointments for a personal date, ideally beginning of October. Best wishes, Johannes Woestemeyer ------------------------------------------------------- Prof. Dr. Johannes Woestemeyer Institute of General Microbiology and Microbe Genetics Friedrich-Schiller-University Jena Neugasse 24 D-07743 Jena - Germany Tel. : +49 (0)3641 949310/1 Fax : +49 (0)3641 949312 E-Mail : b5wojo@rz.uni-jena.de Homepage: http://www.uni-jena.de/biologie/mikrobio/ -------------------------------------------------------- From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 14:30:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29795 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28231 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:53:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28159 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA34626 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:52:04 -0600 Received: from edandsue (dialup0369.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.53.213]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA49998 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:52:02 -0600 From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Subject: Wall Street Journal Article: ADM asks farmers to segregate GM crops Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:44:44 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-reply-to: <37CE9A8F.CE4EB033@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2526 Check this one out! The article bellows appears in today's Wall Street Journal. Ed Sparling 1306 Whedbee St Ft Collins, CO 80524 970-407-1373 edandsue@lamar.colostate.edu ____________________________________________________________________ ADM Warns Its Grain Suppliers To Segregate Gene-Altered Crops By SCOTT KILMAN Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Archer-Daniels-Midland Co., in a move that could dent farmer interest in biotechnology, warned its grain suppliers to begin segregating genetically modified crops from conventional crops. The statement by one of America's biggest millers, which is being faxed to grain elevators throughout the Midwest, is the clearest sign yet that the consumer backlash over genetically modified crops in Europe and Asia is rattling American exporters, as well as creating some opportunities. Practically speaking, there isn't enough time for any big changes this year because the Midwest harvest starts in a few weeks. Roughly half of the soybean fields maturing in U.S. fields are genetically altered, and almost all of that crop will be mixed with conventional soybeans. Install Testing Equipment But the statement by the Decatur, Ill., grain processor is clearly intended to warn Midwest grain elevators and farmers to prepare to do business differently next year. Many of the hundreds of grain elevators that supply ADM might need to install testing equipment that identifies gene-altered crops. Potentially thousands of farmers will have to build new storage bins in order to keep their crops apart. "This should be a wake-up call to the industry," an ADM spokesperson said. Although ADM said it "remains supportive of the science and safety" of genetically engineered crops, the company said it wants to be in a position to supply a growing number of overseas customers who are leery of genetically modified crops. ADM's biggest rivals have yet to follow its lead. But farmer groups reacted angrily Wednesday because they fear the move could lead to an industrywide two-tier pricing system that would penalize their members for growing the new crops. Introduced three years ago, the first wave of genetically modified plants have been wildly popular with U.S. soybean, corn and cotton farmers because they are easier to grow than their conventional cousins. The plants are genetically altered so that they resist pests and tolerate exposure to herbicides. 'Profitability Problems' The National Corn Growers Association said in a statement that ADM's new policy "undoubtedly adds to the many profitability problems that growers are experiencing this year with low prices and drought conditions." Leon Corzine, an Assumption, Ill., corn and soybean farmer who sells crops to ADM, said he and his neighbors will be less likely to plant genetically modified crops because of the company's policy. "I guess the new technology has just outrun consumer acceptance," he said. Monsanto Co., one of the biggest suppliers of genetically modified seed, had already expected U.S. sales of its genetically modified lines to grow somewhat more slowly next year, in large part because the product already penetrated much of the farmer market. While grain officials said ADM's move could damp demand by some farmers for genetically engineered seed, the St. Louis biotechnology company expects "continued adoption of the technology by farmers," said Nicholas Filippello, a Monsanto economist, adding: "We don't expect a significant impact on our financial results." In New York Stock Exchange composite trading Wednesday, Monsanto rose 12.5 cents a share to close at $41.25 a share. New Products From Grain Most grain processors have been loath to handle genetically modified crops any differently. They don't want to give any ammunition to groups critical of a technology the processors hope might some day permit them to make new products and chemicals from grain. Cargill Inc., for example, reiterated Wednesday that it hasn't any plans to require that farmers segregate the crops it buys from them on the open market. The Minneapolis commodity company, which has a biotechnology joint venture with Monsanto, said that if consumer demand for conventional crops became strong enough it would instead contract with farmers to grow them. ADM is taking a different tack in part because it has less invested in crop biotechnology than its rivals. Another reason is that ADM makes soybean-based veggie burgers; vegetarians seem particularly concerned about crop biotechnology. ADM had already warned farmers earlier this year that some of its U.S. mills wouldn't accept some lines of insect-proof corn because they hadn't been cleared by European Union regulators for import into Europe. ADM also formed a joint venture with DuPont Co. in April that contracts with farmers to grow conventional soybeans. DuPont, the Wilmington, Del., chemical company, used conventional breeding techniques to develop soybean plants able to tolerate exposure to one of its herbicides. In New York Stock Exchange composite trading Wednesday, ADM rose 12.5 cents to close at $13.125 a share. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 15:58:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01398 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04830 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:13:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hqmail.usda.gov (hqmail.usda.gov [199.128.3.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04799 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from x400@localhost) by hqmail.usda.gov (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.7.3) id PAA07501 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-MTS-Identifier: [/P=GOV+USDA/A=ATTMAIL/C=US/;37CEC9AC.7F18.001E.000] Content-Identifier: More National Su UA-Content-Id: More National Su Autoforwarded: FALSE Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Personal Received: by ATTMAIL; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:20:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:20:00 -0400 From: Marc Safley Subject: More National Summit Information To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu (Receipt Notification Requested) Message-Id: <37CEC9AC.7F18.001E.000@MHS> X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetJunction 4.6-supplement)/MIME Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2527 I have just received some additional information about the National Summit on Community Food Security. While the central site for the Summit will be Chicago, there are plans for many local World Food Day satellite downlink sites. If you have questions about this national event, there is a person to contact: Janna Paschal at 202-720-5402 or janna.paschal@usda.gov . Marc Safley Natural Resources Conservation Service marc.safley@usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 16:06:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01563 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:06:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14149 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:27:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14134 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:27:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:29:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'lonrom@hevanet.com'" Subject: ARS bulletins Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:29:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2528 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 08:28:38 -0700 Subject: ARS bulletins From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET If anyone else receives the ARS bulletins I've been forwarding to SANET, you might want to take over forwarding them. I am unsubscribing from SANET as it has wandered too far from the areas I found of interest when I joined. ______________ Andy adds: ---------- Each item (Lon has been forwarding) is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. The Information Staff of the Agricultural Research Service operates the ARS News Service as an e-mail news list for journalists. Our goal is to send our subscribers something new, interesting and scientifically significant on every workday, Monday through Friday. To sign up: Address Internet e-mail to majordomo@ars-grin.gov Leave the subject blank For the body, type exactly this: subscribe ars-news You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705- 5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 16:23:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01820 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16412 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:33:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emerald.tufts.edu (pmdf@emerald.tufts.edu [130.64.1.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16400 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from marla.tufts.edu (st7247.infonet.tufts.edu [130.64.217.97]) by emerald.tufts.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #37771) with SMTP id <0FHG00E7S6AHBA@emerald.tufts.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 15:32:48 -0400 From: Marla Rhodes Subject: journalist looking for GE foods info X-Sender: mrhodes1@emerald.tufts.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990902153248.007e95b0@emerald.tufts.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2529 Sanetters, I'm forwarding this request for an "expert" found on a internet service called profnet (where journalists go to find experts/professors to discuss specific issues). ---marla rhodes >GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS - WOMEN'S HEALTH ADVOCATE. I'm doing a >feature about the pros and cons of genetically engineered foods, and I >need >an expert to take the "con" position, discussing possible hazards and >problems associated with these foods. Need leads by September 13. >>> >Wendy >Meyeroff [T::9/01:4062] > ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** Marla Rhodes Northeast Food System Partnership Information and Outreach Coordinator 617-627-5442 mrhodes1@tufts.edu Interested in sharing ideas and information about community food security and sustainable food systems in the Northeast? Sign up to the email group nefood-l. Send the message SUBSCRIBE NEFOOD-L YOUR NAME to the following address: listproc@listproc.tufts.edu Leave the subject line blank. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 16:25:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01880 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22090 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:45:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22016 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04414 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:41:18 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Political code words Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2530 Howdy, all-- I hereby challenge Dale Wilson to supply us with a word that does not have a political connotation. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Men protect women, a man once told me indignantly. Sure, some do. Who do they protect them from? Other women? Children? Wild rutabagas? Rampaging rabbits? --Helen Protenko To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 16:38:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02137 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27000 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26978 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:56:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: ARS News: Deer Collar Could Help Harness Lyme Ticks Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:56:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2531 From: "Lon J. Rombough" To: SANET , ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Deer Collar Could Help Harness Lyme Ticks Date: Thu, Sep 2, 1999, 6:24 AM STORY LEAD: Deer Collar Could Help Harness Lyme Ticks ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov September 2, 1999 ----------- An automatic device that puts a pesticide-impregnated collar around a white-tailed deer's neck may help reduce Lyme disease in the northeast and help control cattle fever ticks along the Texas-Mexico border. Pesticide collars are commonly used for controlling ticks and other parasites on domestic animals. But, until now, collaring wildlife has meant trapping or tranquilizing the deer. The new collaring unit, patented by Agricultural Research Service scientists, lures deer to a specially designed feeder filled with corn. To eat, the animal must place its neck near the collaring mechanism, which releases a self-adjusting, flexible collar, similar to flea collars worn by cats and dogs. ARS researchers based in Kerrville, Texas, have used the collars on captive deer behind fences at the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife's Kerr Wildlife Management Area in Hunt, Texas. They have not seen any ticks attached and successfully feeding on the neck and head of collared deer. Without collars, these deer typically have hundreds to thousands of ticks feeding on them. The collars were impregnated with amitraz, a pesticide approved for livestock that also kills ticks on the deer's hair and skin. The pesticide currently is not approved for use on deer, but--if labeled for this use--would be safe to use during the hunting season from October through December. That's when most adult blacklegged ticks--the culprits behind Lyme disease--feed on deer. Lyme disease is the most prevalent tickborne human disease in the United States. About 90 percent of the cases reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention occur in Northeastern states. ARS and Wildlife Management Technologies of Noank, Conn., have signed a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement to develop a commercial prototype collaring unit and evaluate its effectiveness in a variety of situations. The scientists have developed an electronic device to prevent double-collaring. And they are working to design the collars to biodegrade or fall off once the insecticide breaks down. ---------- Scientific contact: J. Mathews Pound, ARS U.S. Livestock Insects Research Laboratory, Kerrville, Texas, phone (830) 792-0342, fax (830) 792-0337, jmpound@ktc.com. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 16:42:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02219 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02272 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:06:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02206 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id PAA18768 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:05:38 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990902150724.0070c258@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 15:07:24 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: anti-trust Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2532 An invitation from National Catholic Rural Life Conference.... >You are cordially invited to attend A Conference on Anti-Trust and Economic >Concentration in Agriculture sponsored by U.S.Senator Tom Harkin and >U.S.Senator Chuck Grassley featuring Joel Klein, Assistant Attorney General >for Anti-Trust U.S.Department of Justice and Mike Dunn, Undersecretary for >Marketing and Regulatory Programs, U.S. Department of Agriculture Tuesday, >September 7, 1999 12:00 noon - 3:00 p.m. Ballantyne Auditorium, Cedar Hall, >Kirkwood Community College, Cedar Rapids, Iowa. For More Information, call >515 284 4574 (Parking available off south entrance of Kirkwood, at trucking >school, shuttle available) > >"The conference is set to discuss the quickening pace of economic >concentration and consolidation in agriculture; the impact on farmers, rural >communities and consumers; and needed actions and responses to this trend." > >We are going from Des Moines, IA The National Catholic Rural Life Conference, >4625 Beaver Avenue, Des Moines, IA, 50310 515 270 2634. > Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 17:50:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03866 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14077 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:11:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14065 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:11:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id QAA18876 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:10:53 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990902161244.00707220@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:12:44 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: health workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2533 > [Federal Register: August 31, 1999 (Volume 64, Number 168)] > > National Institutes of Health, National Institute of > Environmental Health Sciences; Notice of Workshop on ``The Role of > Human Exposure Assessment in the Prevention of Environmental Disease,'' > Doubletree Hotel, l750 Rockville Pike, Rockville, MD, September 22-24, > 1999 > > Overview > Knowledge of human exposures to agents of potential public health > concern is critical for a successful and scientifically sound approach > to the evaluation of human health risks resulting from environmental > and occupational exposures. This workshop will focus on the exposure- > dose-response-disease paradigm and will describe current opportunities > and challenges in exposure assessment research, provide usable > information on disease-specific chemical exposures that will enhance > integration of exposure assessment with epidemiology and toxicology > studies, and highlight approaches for further research and the > development of effective prevention and intervention strategies. The > two and one-half day workshop is structured so that most of the time > will be spent in organized breakout sessions on the state of the > science and case studies that will gain focus from the plenary > sessions. A Workshop Proceedings Report summarizing the workshop and > sessions, and report/recommendations from the breakout groups is > planned. URL : http://web.fie.com/htdoc/fed/nih/gen/any/proc/any/fr08319901.htm Matching Keywords : Environmental Health Occupational Health and Safety Toxicology Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 17:56:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04056 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15153 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:15:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from schilling.ucdavis.edu (root@schilling.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13681 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.120.215.247] (danr247.ucdavis.edu [128.120.215.247]) by schilling.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.12) with ESMTP id OAA25591; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 14:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1275814867==_ma============" X-Sender: kelleher@mailbox.ucdavis.edu Message-Id: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:27:04 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, sare-pdp@warp.nal.usda.gov From: Kristen Kelleher Subject: NEWS: 2000 SUS AG EVENT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2534 --============_-1275814867==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" EDITORS & COLLEAGUES: Please post this news release, or the dates and title of this major conference, in print and electronic calendars and news outlets. Also, please pass it on to colleagues who may be interested in the event. ============================================ *News* For Immediate Release: August 1999 Potential attendees, contact: Gina Hashagen, Oregon State University (541) 737-5477; hashageg@bcc.orst.edu Or, go to http://wsare.usu.edu/2000 to note your interest in registering News media, contact: Kristen Kelleher, communications specialist (530) 752-5987; kkelleher@ucdavis.edu --Major Conference Celebrates Sustainable Agriculture Coming of Age in the Year 2000 March 7-9, 2000-- The millennium event in Portland, Oregon will include innovative agricultural techniques, outcomes of scientific research, networking, visioning for the future and successful examples of sustainable agriculture enterprises. Logan, UT - "Farming and Ranching for Profit, Stewardship, and Community" is the theme of a major sustainable agriculture conference to be held in Portland, Oregon on March 7-9, 2000. Nationally-known speakers, producers, researchers, agricultural extension agents and others from the Western U.S. and around the nation will share their sustainable agriculture successes, experiences and research results. The event is sponsored by the USDA Western Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (Western SARE) program, with major contributions from several land-grant universities and the federal sustainable agriculture effort. "I'm convinced that sustainable agriculture can ensure the survival of American family farming, which is the bottom-line reason I'm committed to the effort," said Larry Thompson, a berry and vegetable grower from Boring, Oregon and chair of Western SARE's governing Administrative Council. According to Thompson, this event will showcase techniques, experts and enterprises that demonstrate why "sustainable agriculture will continue to grow" in the next century and be adopted by all types of producers and agricultural enterprises - large and small, corporate and owner-operated. Among diverse sessions, confirmed keynote speakers include Virginia producer and author Joel Salatin, who will talk about how to increase farm and ranch profits through innovative livestock and ecological practices. Salatin, author of "Pastured Poultry Profits" and "Salad Bar Beef" will both speak and conduct a workshop at the event. In addition, Oregonian Karla Chambers, co-owner and marketing director of Stahlbush Island Farms, will discuss changes in consumer demand for sustainably grown foods. Stahlbush Island Farms is a 2,000-acre vegetable and fruit production and processing operation that markets its frozen pureed foods worldwide. A day-long tour will give attendees on-the-ground experience with prospering Portland-area farms, direct-marketing approaches, eco-labeling successes, and youth and community efforts that relate to local agriculture. Issues about farming in the midst of urban sprawl and regulation will also be illustrated. "Sustainable agriculture has come of age in the year 2000 - as a means of operating a profitable farm or ranch, protecting natural resources, increasing quality of life and producing high quality food and fiber," said John Luna, conference planning committee member and integrated farming systems specialist at Oregon State University. "We expect more than 500 farmers, ranchers, field advisors, scientists, policy-makers, agri-business representatives, educators and sustainable agriculture advocates from around the Western U.S. to come to Portland to learn about and share evolving sustainable agricultural practices," said Luna. The conference will highlight the methods and outcomes of diverse research and education projects funded by the SARE effort -- including university-based, on-farm and producer-directed work. Innovative marketing strategies and examples will be shared, and the role of non-profit organizations and public policy in promoting sustainable agriculture will also be discussed. The benefits of involving farmers and ranchers in agricultural research is another key element of the program. "Sustainable agriculture focuses on increasing profits for farmers, reducing agriculture's impact on natural resources such as water quality and wildlife habitat, and raising quality of life for farm families and their communities," said national SARE Director Jill Auburn. "I look forward to this Western event, which will help build momentum for more sustainable agriculture successes in the year 2000 and beyond," said Auburn. Specific program topics include: irrigated and dryland cropping systems; grazing and livestock operations; innovative marketing strategies, including eco-labeling and direct-marketing; soil quality; biological pest control; vegetable, tree fruit, wine grape and other crops; and more. The program will also offer a number of information-sharing opportunities. The event venue is the Columbia River Doubletree Hotel in Portland, which is situated on the Columbia riverfront, just 10 minutes north of downtown. For more information about the conference, or to register, contact Gina Hashagen, Oregon State University, at hashageg@bcc.orst.edu or (541) 737-5477. Conference information is also on-line at http://wsare.usu.edu/2000 Interested news media should contact Kristen Kelleher, communications specialist for Western SARE, at (530) 752-5987 or kkelleher@ucdavis.edu. About Western SARE Since 1988 through federal fiscal 1999, the U.S. Congress has allocated more than $103.3 million to the SARE effort; Western SARE has received $23.2 million in funds. The SARE program, which was authorized by Congress in the 1990 and 1996 Farm Bills, is managed in the West by an Administrative Council. The committee of scientists, producers and administrators represent a variety of interests and provide local leadership to research and training efforts. It operates in cooperation with the USDA SARE office and the Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service. V. Philip Rasmussen, a soil scientist at the program's host institution, Utah State University, is regional coordinator of the Western program. The Western region includes Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming and the Island Protectorates of American Samoa, Guam, Micronesia and the Northern Mariana Islands. ### ******************************* Kristen Kelleher Senior Public Information Rep/ Communications Specialist Western SARE Mail and contact information: SARE University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616-8716 (530) 752-5987 (530) 754-8550 kkelleher@ucdavis.edu FOR UPS, FED-X, or other priority mail: SARE, University of California DANR Bldg, Hopkins Rd. Davis, CA 95616 ****************************** --============_-1275814867==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Times_New_RomanEDITORS & COLLEAGUES: Please post this news release, or the dates and title of this major conference, in print and electronic calendars and news outlets. Also, please pass it on to colleagues who may be interested in the event. ============================================ *News* For Immediate Release: August 1999 Potential attendees, contact: Gina Hashagen, Oregon State University (541) 737-5477; hashageg@bcc.orst.edu Or, go to 0000,0000,00FFhttp://wsare.usu.edu/2000 to note your interest in registering News media, contact: Kristen Kelleher, communications specialist (530) 752-5987; kkelleher@ucdavis.edu --Major Conference Celebrates Sustainable Agriculture Coming of Age in the Year 2000 March 7-9, 2000-- The millennium event in Portland, Oregon will include innovative agricultural techniques, outcomes of scientific research, networking, visioning for the future and successful examples of sustainable agriculture enterprises. Logan, UT - "Farming and Ranching for Profit, Stewardship, and Community" is the theme of a major sustainable agriculture conference to be held in Portland, Oregon on March 7-9, 2000. Nationally-known speakers, producers, researchers, agricultural extension agents and others from the Western U.S. and around the nation will share their sustainable agriculture successes, experiences and research results. The event is sponsored by the USDA Western Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (Western SARE) program, with major contributions from several land-grant universities and the federal sustainable agriculture effort. "I'm convinced that sustainable agriculture can ensure the survival of American family farming, which is the bottom-line reason I'm committed to the effort," said Larry Thompson, a berry and vegetable grower from Boring, Oregon and chair of Western SARE's governing Administrative Council. According to Thompson, this event will showcase techniques, experts and enterprises that demonstrate why "sustainable agriculture will continue to grow" in the next century and be adopted by all types of producers and agricultural enterprises - large and small, corporate and owner-operated. Among diverse sessions, confirmed keynote speakers include Virginia producer and author Joel Salatin, who will talk about how to increase farm and ranch profits through innovative livestock and ecological practices. Salatin, author of "Pastured Poultry Profits" and "Salad Bar Beef" will both speak and conduct a workshop at the event. In addition, Oregonian Karla Chambers, co-owner and marketing director of Stahlbush Island Farms, will discuss changes in consumer demand for sustainably grown foods. Stahlbush Island Farms is a 2,000-acre vegetable and fruit production and processing operation that markets its frozen pureed foods worldwide. A day-long tour will give attendees on-the-ground experience with prospering Portland-area farms, direct-marketing approaches, eco-labeling successes, and youth and community efforts that relate to local agriculture. Issues about farming in the midst of urban sprawl and regulation will also be illustrated. "Sustainable agriculture has come of age in the year 2000 - as a means of operating a profitable farm or ranch, protecting natural resources, increasing quality of life and producing high quality food and fiber," said John Luna, conference planning committee member and integrated farming systems specialist at Oregon State University. "We expect more than 500 farmers, ranchers, field advisors, scientists, policy-makers, agri-business representatives, educators and sustainable agriculture advocates from around the Western U.S. to come to Portland to learn about and share evolving sustainable agricultural practices," said Luna. The conference will highlight the methods and outcomes of diverse research and education projects funded by the SARE effort -- including university-based, on-farm and producer-directed work. Innovative marketing strategies and examples will be shared, and the role of non-profit organizations and public policy in promoting sustainable agriculture will also be discussed. The benefits of involving farmers and ranchers in agricultural research is another key element of the program. "Sustainable agriculture focuses on increasing profits for farmers, reducing agriculture's impact on natural resources such as water quality and wildlife habitat, and raising quality of life for farm families and their communities," said national SARE Director Jill Auburn. "I look forward to this Western event, which will help build momentum for more sustainable agriculture successes in the year 2000 and beyond," said Auburn. Specific program topics include: irrigated and dryland cropping systems; grazing and livestock operations; innovative marketing strategies, including eco-labeling and direct-marketing; soil quality; biological pest control; vegetable, tree fruit, wine grape and other crops; and more. The program will also offer a number of information-sharing opportunities. The event venue is the Columbia River Doubletree Hotel in Portland, which is situated on the Columbia riverfront, just 10 minutes north of downtown. For more information about the conference, or to register, contact Gina Hashagen, Oregon State University, at hashageg@bcc.orst.edu or (541) 737-5477. Conference information is also on-line at 0000,0000,00FFhttp://wsare.usu.edu/2000 Interested news media should contact Kristen Kelleher, communications specialist for Western SARE, at (530) 752-5987 or 0000,0000,00FFkkelleher@ucdavis.edu. About Western SARE Since 1988 through federal fiscal 1999, the U.S. Congress has allocated more than $103.3 million to the SARE effort; Western SARE has received $23.2 million in funds. The SARE program, which was authorized by Congress in the 1990 and 1996 Farm Bills, is managed in the West by an Administrative Council. The committee of scientists, producers and administrators represent a variety of interests and provide local leadership to research and training efforts. It operates in cooperation with the USDA SARE office and the Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service. V. Philip Rasmussen, a soil scientist at the program's host institution, Utah State University, is regional coordinator of the Western program. The Western region includes Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming and the Island Protectorates of American Samoa, Guam, Micronesia and the Northern Mariana Islands. ### ******************************* Kristen Kelleher Senior Public Information Rep/ Communications Specialist Western SARE Mail and contact information: SARE University of California One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616-8716 (530) 752-5987 (530) 754-8550 kkelleher@ucdavis.edu FOR UPS, FED-X, or other priority mail: SARE, University of California DANR Bldg, Hopkins Rd. Davis, CA 95616 ****************************** --============_-1275814867==_ma============-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 18:22:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04511 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08130 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08048 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id QAA37106 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:49:13 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990902165108.0072d0c0@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:51:08 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Hartman Reports Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2535 Misha wrote "Glenn enquired about a bit of market research on natural foods buyers that he couldn't track down. Glenn, were you referring to the /Hartman Report: Food and the Environment, A Consumer's Perspective/????" If these reports are of interest, you may be able to purchase a copy from Harvey Hartman directly (they aren't cheap!). His email is hartma29@nwlink.com, tel: 206.451.9094 He also has a market report newsletter that may be of interest. If you want to know more about the reports, email me directly. We've used them extensively at Willy St. Grocery Coop as well as with the Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction project when speaking with conventional growers to spark their interest in growing for a specific market. There is a conference scheduled for December 6-7 in Madison, WI to discuss infrastructure needs to support environmental marketing for commodity crops (esp. corn and soy beans) at which Harvey will be a speaker. Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 18:54:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04933 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:54:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28662 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:18:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ems02.energy.wsu.edu (ems02.energy.wsu.edu [192.152.10.236]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28655 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ems02.energy.wsu.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:17:03 -0700 Message-ID: <32BFA4EACB99D1119D110020AFD209CE6B3ACB@ems02.energy.wsu.edu> From: Cristina Love To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Agriculture and Energy Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 15:17:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2536 Hello, I am looking for good information on energy topics in relation to agriculture. I intend on sharing the information with a wide-ranging audience (limited to the US), on an on-going basis. What I'd like are leads to good fact sheets and publications, web sites, training opportunities, etc. I welcome your referrals. Christine Love WSU Coop. Ext. Energy Program (360) 956-2172 lovec@energy.wsu.edu "There are few things as fun as raising hell for the good of the people." -Molly Ivins- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 19:11:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05212 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10212 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:37:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from email1-1 (email.mcleod.net [208.16.32.20]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA10198 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 47426 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1999 22:28:02 -0000 Received: from 307-a-40-41.ppp.mcleodusa.net (HELO 315-A-41-170.ppp.mcleodusa.net) (208.16.40.41) by email.mcleod.net with SMTP; 2 Sep 1999 22:28:02 -0000 Received: by 315-A-41-170.ppp.mcleodusa.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BEF569.B6B8FB20@315-A-41-170.ppp.mcleodusa.net>; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:36:39 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEF569.B6B8FB20@315-A-41-170.ppp.mcleodusa.net> From: Reap International To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1270 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:15:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEF569.B6C09C40" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2537 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEF569.B6C09C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sanet Users, we are very intersted in having persons involved with = sustainable agriculture and rural development help us with our rural = work at Lake Baikal. Please look over the following project. I hope we = can have member support! Thanks, Bill Mueller NOTICE OF SECOND INTERNATIONALGREEN WALK,=20 BURYATIA SIBERIA (LAKE BAIKAL)=20 SUMMER 2000 REAP International invites interested organizations to join us in the = Second=20 Annual Green Walk at Lake Baikal (Siberia), to take place in the summer = of=20 2000. It is our objective to use this event as the basis for new = coalition- building and NGO involvement at Lake Baikal. The Walk will provide your = organization with the opportunity to become involved directly or = indirectly=20 with this unique place and its particular set of environmental/economic=20 challenges. Our objective is to make Baikal accessible to the widest = number=20 of organizations and individuals from the United States, other countries = and=20 other regions of Russia. =20 The structure of the Walk is very simple. Participants walk along = established=20 roads, passing through villages and towns and sleeping in tents. = Camping=20 equipment and food are transported by truck. Participants are = responsible for=20 making camp meals. There are meetings with locals, visits to businesses = and=20 organizations, cultural and group activities. In 2000 there will also = be several=20 mini-projects undertaken by the Walkers. The Walk will be about three=20 weeks with an optional fourth week.=20 REAP's Green Walk partners include the Russian nongovernmental=20 organizations "FIRN" and "Aura" and the Ministry of Education and = Science=20 of Buryatia. REAP has been bringing people to Russia since 1992. Baikal is the world's most unique lake. Since it joined UNESCO's World=20 Heritage Program in 1996, there have been an increase in local = organizations=20 at Baikal which address its social, economic and environmental problems. = =20 But there has also been a decrease in formal international involvement,=20 particularly in the republic of Buryatia. Nor has Buryatia advanced =20 economically in recent years. This is most serious because Buryatia is = the =20 primary caretaker for Baikal, with proportionally more shoreline, rivers = and=20 resource usage than its watershed neighbors of Irkutsk or Chita.=20 The First Annual Green Walk concluded July 18, 1999 revealed the crisis = of=20 this situation. The 10-day Walk covered 122 kilometers, passed through = 23=20 villages and made contact with nearly 1,000 local people in large and = small=20 gatherings. The overriding point made by those people: They are distressed at how they are forced to live, which causes them=20 to destroy their environment for survival, and thus destroys their = quality of=20 life. They said no one but our Walkers had heard their concerns or = offered to=20 be their representatives. They were eager for any form of support. =20 We invite you to walk with us, to see for yourself, and to provide = assistance=20 in your own particular ways. The Walk will also provide opportunities = for=20 interested parties to sponsor Russian youth in projects. You may also = have=20 simultaneous cooperating events at your location to promote solidarity. In the coming months the final design of the Green Walk will be = determined.=20 Please consider the Walk for one of your formal organizational = activities, or=20 as a chance for interested members to do something on their own. Your=20 support is welcome in any form. Much of this work will be aimed at=20 cooperation with rural schools and local youth leaders who can be your=20 partners. As in the past, REAP will also try to involve rural = educators,=20 scientists, local administrators, academics and others into this work. = REAP will provide coordination and facilitation for your organization to = take=20 part. In November we will post the full details for participation in = the Walk, =20 cooperation, or sponsorships of youth leadership projects.=20 Please contact us if you are interested in this project. REAP International 1427 4th Street SW Cedar Rapids, Iowa 52404 (319) 366-4230=20 E-Mail: REAP@reapintl.com ATTN: Bill Mueller, Director 2 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEF569.B6C09C40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUAU01UUABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUA AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAABzYW5ldC1tZ0BjZXMubmNzdS5lZHUA AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3NhbmV0LW1nQGNlcy5uY3N1LmVkdScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpTQU5FVC1NR0BDRVMuTkNTVS5FRFUAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAADYDUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAHQAA AFJFOiBzYW5ldC1tZy1kaWdlc3QgVjEgIzEyNzAAbggBBYADAA4AAADPBwkAAgARAA8ADwAEABQB ASCAAwAOAAAAzwcJAAIAEQANAB8ABAAiAQEJgAEAIQAAAEQ0RkMyNjRFMUQ2MUQzMTFBMTIxNDQ0 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If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 19:27:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05409 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20600 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:50:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA20588 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id RAA06502; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:49:39 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma006303; Thu, 2 Sep 99 17:49:16 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:49:18 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:49:15 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEE1@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: SANET-mg Cc: "'Misha'" Subject: RE: Political code words Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:49:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2538 Misha, > I hereby challenge Dale Wilson to supply us with a word that does not > have a political connotation. After I saw John Ikerds definition of sustainability: "Sustainability ultimately is about intergenerational equity - to meet the needs of the present while leaving equal or better opportunities for the future." I was almost wishing I hadn't been so hasty condemning that word. But to take up your challenge anyhow, It isn't that political "connotations" are ever totally absent, it is that some words are so co-opted as political slogans, they lose their everyday meaning and usefulness. Here are some words off the top of my head that have NOT: pliers millimeter temperature sensor sugar seed (you can probably tell I just came from the lab!) Here are some words that have been pretty much co-opted: family values choice (in the abortion context) liberty (during French revolution) total-quality management (politics in companies) organic racism For example, several years ago I asked an SA activist what the "S" word meant. I said "..so it means that whatever it is we are doing, can be continued into the indefinite future." He said (something like) "Oh no, sustainability means social equity, loving nature, natural-law spirituality...." Basically any "good" stuff you want to throw into it. Sustainability is really a political movement. The word denotes a group of like-minded people, who want to control the agenda by packing lots of their own opinions into a nice-sounding term. So, the meaning of the word has changed. I guess that is okay. But I think Ikerd's definition approaches something more concise and useful. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 20:24:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06516 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25353 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:45:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (IDENT:root@saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25315 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.235 (mx3-92.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.235]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA08484; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:44:04 -0500 Message-ID: <37CF0F18.782F@smallfarms.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:58:16 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Hartman Reports Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2539 Dear Michelle, Misha, all who helped and readers: It is the Hartman Report! Thank you so much. I began talking with a rancher in Hawaii about the findings in the report when she asked me for the source. Now I need to get her a copy, thanks to all of you who looked for it, as a service of smallfarms.com The bad news in this report is that we're mainstream. Customers and consumers want our products because we're safe, have variety and are identified with quality products. I always wanted to be mainstream. Thanks. glenn Buy from the Farmer www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 20:38:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06847 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05189 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:57:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (IDENT:root@saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05178 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.235 (mx3-92.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.235]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12517; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:55:54 -0500 Message-ID: <37CF11DD.15E7@smallfarms.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 14:10:06 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Free Almonds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2540 Hello: Sherry, an organic almond grower 1.5 hrs. north of Berkley, Ca.is offering free almonds at her farm. U pick. She wants to avoid rotting fruit and things that eat rotten fruit in her orchard. Tell your customers about her. Call her at (503) 796-2237 and/or see smallfarms.com for more details. glenn Buy from the Farmer www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 2 20:42:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06894 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07078 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:02:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07024 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:03:38 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.194] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AFE08D0007C; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:01:36 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:58:29 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: Political code words Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2541 Was it not Lenin who said "If you control the terminology, you control the debate." (approximate quote)? Thus it is that you get Rind and other NAMBLA types attempting to define child sexual abuse as "inter-generational sex," and outfits such as Monsanto attempting to co-opt sustainable as being "no-till." When Canadians or Europeans help their farmers it's "subsidies," and when Americans help theirs it's "emergency aid." Bull-crumble. As Vaclav Havel so aptly put it, "Restore the real meaning of words, to live in truth." Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 10:18:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18155 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08006 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:41:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from purple.tmn.com (purple.tmn.com [205.177.137.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07970 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:41:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tmn.com ([164.106.173.25]) by purple.tmn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23129; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37CFBEA8.8554ABE1@tmn.com> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 08:27:20 -0400 From: tabeles Reply-To: tabeles@tmn.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cristina Love CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Agriculture and Energy References: <32BFA4EACB99D1119D110020AFD209CE6B3ACB@ems02.energy.wsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2542 There is a very large body of literature in this arena starting with efforts in the early 70's with the first energy crisis or even going back before WWII with the usda effort on alcohol. What information do you currently have, what sources have you used and where do you find you are lacking in information. What is your focus and who is your audience, what level of sophistication are you expecting, and what is the purpose of this effort. thoughts? tom abeles Cristina Love wrote: > Hello, > > I am looking for good information on energy topics in relation to > agriculture. I intend on sharing the information with a wide-ranging > audience (limited to the US), on an on-going basis. What I'd like are leads > to good fact sheets and publications, web sites, training opportunities, > etc. > > I welcome your referrals. > > Christine Love > WSU Coop. Ext. Energy Program > (360) 956-2172 > lovec@energy.wsu.edu > > "There are few things as fun as raising hell for the good of the people." > > -Molly Ivins- > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 12:01:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20440 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25227 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:19:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25216 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:20:55 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.155] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A6D49882005C; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:18:44 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:15:45 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Agriculture and Energy Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2543 On Fri, 03 Sep 1999 08:27:20 -0400, tabeles wrote: >There is a very large body of literature in this arena starting with efforts in >the early 70's with the first energy crisis or even going back before WWII with >the usda effort on alcohol. Divid Pimentel of Cornell did some work about ten years back looking at the energy economics of ethanol. If I remember his results correctly, he found that when you include the energy required to grow the corn, handle the corn, and deliver the corn to the ethanol plant --- as well as ferment and distill the corn into ethanol --- it takes about 130,000 btu to produce one gallon of ethanol. Said gallon of ethanol contains 76,000 btu of energy. Ooops. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 13:06:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22742 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21165 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:14:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA21138 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:13:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [199.175.106.62] [199.175.106.31] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11MvxD-0006dgC for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:12:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: maroc@mail.islandnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:15:16 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: maroc@islandnet.com (Maroc) Subject: good science Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2544 When European scientific research can determine that hormone treated beef is a health hazard and Canadian/American research shows it is perfectly safe to eat, it says more about science and scientists than about beef. Is it a matter of asking the right questions or is it a matter of paying the right rates? Does "good science" cost more or less that "junk science"? Probably in most cases "good science" is my science and "junk science" is your science. Who made the determination that science is the only criteria for testing genetically modified foods? Article below is from Doug Powell's Food Safety list. Don Maroc Vancouver Island, Canada FOOD SAFETY LIKELY HOT TRADE TOPIC Aept 2, 1999 Western Producer Barry Wilson Ottawa bureau Canadian negotiators at upcoming World Trade Organization talks will, according to this story, resist any attempt by the European Union to expand the definition of how to judge the safety of food products involved in trade. Last week, agriculture minister Lyle Vanclief was cited as saying that Canada is proposing that a committee of the WTO be created to draw up rules for how products of biotechnology are treated, adding, "The basis of our decision making must be science, not emotion," and that the issue of genetically modified organisms is expected to be one of the more contentious debates during the WTO round beginning in early December and slated to last at least three years. As with the beef hormone issue, genetically engineered food has become a case of dueling scientists as European studies raise questions and North American studies proclaim GMO products safe, subject to the usual tests for nutrition, composition and allergens. At a Aug. 19 briefing, senior Agriculture Canada trade official Mike Gifford was cited as saying that the next WTO agreement must include clear rules to keep politics out of health and safety judgments and that the European move to ban beef from cattle raised with growth hormones was a "politicized" decision, based more on public fear than on scientific evidence, adding, "Now they are trying to rationalize after the fact what they did originally by ignoring science." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 13:07:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22784 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03349 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:35:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03329 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 3590 ; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:33:14 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8008; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:33:14 -0400 Message-Id: <03SEP99.13558077.0022.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:33:13 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Agriculture and Energy X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:17:02 EDT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2545 Christine .... i have put a few references up on the web that might be of use: www.agrenv.mcgill.ca/agrecon/staff/ .. click on my name to get my page then look for the link to the energy and agr bibliography ... john henning ================================== >Hello, > >I am looking for good information on energy topics in relation to >agriculture. I intend on sharing the information with a wide-ranging >audience (limited to the US), on an on-going basis. What I'd like are leads >to good fact sheets and publications, web sites, training opportunities, >etc. > >I welcome your referrals. > >Christine Love >WSU Coop. Ext. Energy Program >(360) 956-2172 >lovec@energy.wsu.edu > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 13:11:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22882 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:11:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04357 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:39:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04272 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coop.ext.colostate.edu (coop.EXT.ColoState.EDU [129.82.139.50]) by mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22956; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:37:58 -0600 Received: from nrcs3.cohugo.fsc.usda.gov (nrcs3.cohugo.fsc.usda.gov [199.153.37.252]) by coop.ext.colostate.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA09552; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:34:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199909031634.KAA09552@coop.ext.colostate.edu> From: "Will Arnold" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "Lon J. Rombough" Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:48:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Nature Spirit (was: definitely related) Reply-to: warnold@coop.ext.colostate.edu In-reply-to: <199908312241.PAA03623@hevanet.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2546 After being gone for a few days, and upon downloading messages, I agree with the idea that sanet should stick to the physical. However, as I work my way through the postings I come out the other end much richer because of the discussions. I work for Extension and NRCS as a community development person for the past 10 years. I have worked in some of the most depressed agricultural areas in the country and I know what damage has been wrought by science, educators, government programs big business and some hard headed individuals. I also know that we must talk about sustainable living in all it's dimensions. The expert role does not work. USDA has proven it over and over. We must learn to listen to people, create ever expanding networks, do some science but connect it to sustainable lives. If all we talk of is the physical nuts and bolts we will forget that sustainable ag is a holistic movement. We are fortunate to be at the forefront of a great revolution. Revolutions fail when they cannot define their purpose and then develop some traditions and folkways based on input of the early founders. This is a higher order endeavor and must not be watered down for want of prestige and recognition by the intellectual, or monied establishments. The status quo is in need of change and this group has the people, the ideas, the wherewithal to make those changes. However if the spiritual is deemed as a separate part of the movement when the dust settles what we will have will be the same thing just different. Thus listen, speak, write, pray and if it doesn't suit you, delete. Thank you. Will Arnold Regional Extension Specialist/RC&D Community Development P.O. Box 157 Hugo CO 80821 (719)743-2370 ext 112 warnold@coop.ext.colostate.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 13:19:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23038 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05962 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:43:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex3.theitgroup.com ([207.247.16.119]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05949 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theitgroup.com (torrn2.theitgroup.com [10.1.2.10]) by torrex3.theitgroup.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id SGKCJFZA; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:43:35 -0700 Received: from IT-Message_Server by theitgroup.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:21:07 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:23:08 -0700 From: RALPH COLE To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Poultry rations: ingredients and comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2547 Getting back to a topic that was discussed a few weeks ago, I have questions about poultry feed ingredient sources, and human mercury reactions to feed ingredients: A lot of people are (I assume) using roasted soybeans for protein in their feed mix. I would too, but can't find a local source, so am using the meal which is extruded and doesn't carry the inhibiting enzyme. Another grower here in Tennessee adds soybean oil back into his ration to make up for the fat lost in the extrusion process. Do you all have trouble acquiring roasted soybeans? or is everyone roasting their own, as I am contemplating? The meal results in an overly powdery texture which I am not thrilled with (except for chicks and poults). But I would need to fabricate a roaster, or find a used commercial unit. A second point centers on the kelp and fishmeal. I think both ingredients (+ probiotic) are critical to the final product I offer to my customers. I personally favor the SeaLac over regular fishmeal. I would rather have a cold water fish source, but SeaLac is a superior product nonetheless, I believe. I have ordered bags of kelp from every N. American supplier I can locate and all are N. American based, except the Thorvin Icelandic kelp. The outward appearance of the Icelandic kelp is much better than the N. American, the former being green and sweet smelling, and the latter being brown and rather unremarkable in scent. I don't know what difference this has on nutrition, but the subjective factors favor the Icelandic kelp. The checkbook factor favor$ the N. American kelps. What are other folks' experiences or comments? Lastly, I sell mixed feed on the side not so much as a business but to help out folks who don't need the volume required for ton quantities. A lady recently bought some chicken feed from me who had experienced debilitating chronic mercury reactions in recent years. She finally had her amalgams replaced, which helped a lot, but she also had to identify food sources of trace amounts of mercury and mercury compounds. One source of mercury is warm water sea life, meaning fish meal and kelp. The possibility of mercury being added to my chickens and turkeys had never occurred to me before (blame it on a busy schedule) but now I'm wondering what the prevalence of mercury-in-food reactions are, and if anyone has gone through a similar episode in their life. Comments? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 15:24:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07547 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24469 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:10:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24434 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DigitalArk.ark.com (io6p33.ark.com [209.53.216.233]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with ESMTP id LAA02844 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:09:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199909031809.LAA02844@ark.com> From: "Ellen Rainwalker" To: Subject: Spirituality in Agriculture Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:12:55 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2548 I stand with John and Anita. Spirituality is part of the "culture" part of agriculture. I find it interesting that the word agribusiness gets rid of the "culture" part and replaces it with "business", thus removing the spirituality from it. Ellen Rainwalker To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 15:57:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08155 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23673 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:13:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23661 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:12:41 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Michael Straus'" Subject: FW: California Farm Conference press release Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:12:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA23663 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2549 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Straus [mailto:info@beyondorganic.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 4:32 PM Subject: California Farm Conference press release Below is the press release (text version)of the California Farm Conference - "Cultivating the Farm-City Connection". Full press kits, photos, and assistance in arranging interviews with farmers and other interesting participants are all available upon request. The conference is unique, in that it will bring together multiple interest groups to discuss and shape the future of California food and agriculture. Please join us. Many thanks, Michael Straus P/R Coordinator, 1999 California Farm Conference 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 http://www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com ------------------------------------------------ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE September 1, 1999 Press Contact: Michael Straus Phone: 415-289-6958 Fax: 415-663-8079 e-mail: info@beyondorganic.com http://www.caff.org 15TH CALIFORNIA FARM CONFERENCE TO CULTIVATE THE FARM-CITY CONNECTION SACRAMENTO, CA - In the wake of staggering statistics showing a loss of 2 acres of U.S. farmland every minute since 1970, the 15th California Farm Conference, entitled "Cultivating the Farm-City Connection", will connect farmers, consumers, educators, food professionals, environmentalist and policy makers in a targeted series of workshops offering concrete solutions to a growing problem. The conference will be held November 7-9 at the Berkeley Marina Radisson Hotel, in Berkeley, CA. Chez Panisse, Olivetto's, and One market, known for their support of local farms, will also prepare a family style Farm to City Celebration Dinner using the finest ingredients from local farms. The meal, which is open to the public as well as Conference registrants, will be hosted by renowned chef/author Bradley Ogden at his San Francisco waterfront restaurant, One Market, on Sunday, November 7th at 7:00 pm. As urban, suburban and rural boundaries collide, the need for a good interface between them is fundamental to the destiny of California's agriculture. While it is inevitable that cities must grow to meet the demand for housing, this year's California Farm Conference will focus on intelligent planning and policies, such as urban agriculture, small scale family farming, and conservation programs that will effect the future of the urban/suburban/farm connection. "It's really hard to grow food in a bed of asphalt. For as long as I've been farming it's been clear to me that it would take a lot more than a ton of manure," said Peter Worsley, organic grower, Inverness, CA. "I think this conference will help all of us understand the complex issues facing us," added Worsley. Consumers are becoming increasingly removed from the agricultural process of growing and producing the food they eat. Many people in urban areas have never set foot on a farm, and the supermarket shopping experience would almost lead one to believe milk is made in a factory, not by cows. Although the vast majority of Californians feel little connection with agriculture, the agricultural economy affects every Californian: California has the most productive farmland in the United States, producing 55% of our nation's fruits, nuts and vegetables. Nearly 10% of jobs in California are directly dependent on agricultural production. 8.5% of California's annual personal income is generated by the farm economy. Over 30% of all land in California is open space because of working farms and ranches. We all eat. Agriculture's role in sustaining economic prosperity, independence, and a sense of place is far reaching. Agriculture produces not only the food we eat, the clothes we wear, and the products we work and play with, it also provides rural lands which are a rich cultural legacy, furnishing both open space and wildlife habitat. The three day conference is sponsored by leading California food, agricultural and governmental organizations, including the Community Alliance with Family Farmers (CAFF), the University of California Cooperative Extension (Alameda County), and the California Federation of Certified Farmers' Markets. It is open to the public. For more information on Farm Conference registration and the Farm to City Celebration Dinner call 510-222-5091 or email: kbarzin@compuserve.com -END- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 3 17:20:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09874 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11123 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:38:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11078 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA06920; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:37:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000601bef64c$07195280$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "Hal Hamilton" , "Sanet" Subject: Re: Is sustainability a useless word? Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:35:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2550 At the Northeast Organic Farming Association regional conference this summer, there was a day-long workshop on the possibility of applying The Natural Step to agriculture in the U.S. I know there was a post about The Natural Step and Swedish agriculture on Sanet last spring, but it didn't make much impression on me at the time. After hearing a Swedish organic farmer (and president of the organic farming organization in Sweden) talk about how this movement has transformed the thinking about natural resources, energy, and environment in Sweden, I think The Natural Step deserves another look from the sustainable agriculture community here. I bring it up here, because it represents an attempt to bring a scientific standard to sustainability. According to the information in the workshop, at least, there has been extensive scientific review of the orginal documents. At the same time, the basis has been framed in terms that, while setting a very high standard, also make common sense. My information is at home, but here are the "Four Conditions" as far as I remember them: 1. Substances extracted from the earth's crust (e.g. fossil fuels, metals, other minerals) should not be extracted, dispersed, or used up at a faster rate than they are being deposited. 2. Man-made substances should not be produced at a rate faster than they can be broken down and incorporated into living ecosystems. 3. The quality of existing ecosystems should not be systematically degraded. 4. Existing resources should be used as efficiently and equitably as possible. I am sure that these are not the exact words, but I think they convey the basic ideas. The consideration of social systems, Hal, is limited to the word "equitably" (which may not even be the right word) in the last condition. In the workshop I attended, considerable time was spent emphasizing the fair and equitable distribution of resources. As I am sure you can imagine, the devil is in the details, but even the Swedish organic farmer felt that this is very challenging, but ultimately necessary standard to reach. Maybe I can write more, and more accurately, next week. I am out of time today. Kim Stoner -----Original Message----- From: Hal Hamilton To: Sanet Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:54 AM Subject: Is sustainability a useless word? >Dale writes: "Sustainability" is a political code-word, useless for ordinary >conversation >about biology, cultural practices, or ethics. > >What do you all think? Clearly the word sustainability is politically >loaded. That is, if powerful sectors of our economy, led by powerful >people, and supported by powerful politicians, are engaged in activities >that are unsustainable, then the concept of sustainability has political >meaning. That doesn't make it useless, but it does add multiple layers of >meaning and import. I'd argue that the concept also has analytic >usefulness, although definitions are tough. The Natural Step folks have one >that I don't think has a social dimension. We could at least agree that >humankind shouldn't be using up resources faster than they can be >regenerated and that we should not be polluting more than can be absorbed. >I'm a layperson in these matters, lacking precision I'm sure. And I don't >really care whether we lump social concerns within or without the concept of >sustainability. I care about equity regardless, for example. But that's >another matter. > >Hal >Hal Hamilton >Center for Sustainable Systems >433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA >Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 >hhamilton@centerss.org > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 4 11:36:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09237 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09629 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:01:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postal.indy.net (postal.indy.net [199.3.65.16]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09479 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from indy4.indy.net (root@indy4 [199.3.65.4]) by postal.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10262; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from richmo.indy.net (ip209-183-86-70.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.70]) by indy4.indy.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA11441; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:02:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37D0EBC8.3819@indy.net> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:52:08 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mike richardson CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: kudzu, etc. References: <37B95FF0.C1B52AF5@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2551 mike richardson wrote: > Over > the years farmers have spent many millions trying to eradicate this > persistant weed. Combinations of 2,4-D and diesel fuel, applied usually > more than once, will do the trick. HOWEVER, I do not advise using > diesel fuel due to the possibility of contaminating ground water. > Roundup, Tordon, and Spike have also shown ability to kill it. > Son of Richard SOR, So applying a biocide is the preferable method? You should see if Monsanto or Dupont will pay money for your advertisement. Later, -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 4 12:39:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16630 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08890 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08836 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09695 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA28515 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:03:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:03:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Seed Industry Giants Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2552 From: "Lise Norgren" Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture Subject: Seed Industry Giants ** World Seed Conference: Shrinking Club of Industry Giants ** Gather for Wake or Pep Rally? **RAFI Releases Newly Updated Seed Industry Giants: Who Owns Whom?** An inauspicious gathering of the 1999 World Seed Conference takes place 6-8 September in Cambridge UK to mark the 75th anniversary of the international seed trade. RAFI takes this opportunity to release its 1999 update on seed industry consolidation. A shrinking number of colossal companies - the Gene Giants - dominate global sales of seeds, agrochemicals and pharmaceuticals. "Given the dramatic rate of consolidation in the global seed trade, membership is evaporating and all of the seed industry CEO's could probably meet for a weenie roast on someone's patio," remarks Pat Mooney, Executive Director of RAFI, who is among the featured speakers at next week's World Seed Conference. According to RAFI, the top five Gene Giants (AstaZeneca, DuPont, Monsanto, Novartis, Aventis) account for nearly two-thirds of the global pesticide market (60%), almost one-quarter (23%) of the commercial seed market, and virtually 100% of the transgenic (genetically modified) seed market. "The Gene Giants' portfolio extends far beyond plant breeding," explains Mooney, "From plants, to animals, to human genetic material they are fast becoming monopoly monarchs over all the life kingdoms," said Mooney. Five years ago, none of top 5 Gene Giants appeared on the list of leading seed corporations. In fact, 3 of the top 5 companies didn't even exist (Zeneca + Astra merged to form AstraZeneca; Rhone Poulenc + Hoechst became Aventis; Ciba Geigy + Sandoz became Novartis. DuPont swallowed Pioneer Hi-Bred earlier this year. A few short years ago, many would have predicted that the 1999 World Seed Conference would be a gala event to reap the profits and promise of genetically modified (GM) seeds. After all, sales of transgenic seeds grew twenty-fold from 1995-1998; analysts predicted industry revenues would surpass $3 billion in 2000 and explode to $25 billion in 2010. But much has changed in the past year. The Cambridge gathering is rapidly taking on the trappings of a wake, and the group might forego their patio picnic to hunker down in a bunker instead. The civil society organizations who plan to protest in Cambridge under the banner "Seeds of Resistance," will reinforce the message that GMOs are under siege Seed Industry Top 10 Company Seed Sales (US) Millions - 1998 DuPont (USA) $1,835+ Monsanto (USA) $1,800 (estimate) Novartis(Switzerland) $1,000 Groupe Limagrain (France) $733 Savia S.A. de C.V. (Mexico) $428 AstraZeneca (UK and Neth.) $412 KWS AG (Germany) $370 AgriBiotech, Inc. (USA) $370 Sakata (Japan) $349* Takii (Japan) $300* (estimate) Top 10 Agrochemical Companies Company Pesticide Sales (U.S.) Millions 1998 Aventis (Germany) $4,676 Novartis (Switzerland) $4,152 Monsanto (USA) $4.032 DuPont (USA) $3,156 AstraZeneca (UK and Neth.) $2,897 Bayer (Germany) $2,273 American Home Products $2,194 Dow (USA) $2,132 BASF (Germany) $1,945 Makhteshim-Agan (Israel) $801 Source: RAFI and Agrow No. 335 August 27 1999. *Note: 1998 sales figures were not available for some seed companies Consolidation: Vital Statistics The top 10 seed companies control approximately 33% of the $23 billion seed trade worldwide. The top 3 seed companies (DuPont, Monsanto, Novartis) account for 20% of the global seed trade. The top 10 agrochemical companies control 91% of the $31 billion agrochemical market. The top five Gene Giants (AstraZeneca, DuPont, Monsanto, Novartis and Aventis) account for nearly two-thirds of the global pesticide market (60%), almost one-quarter (23%) of the global seed market, and virtually 100% of the transgenic seed market. In the words of U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman, opposition to genetically engineered foods and seeds, once confined to Europe, has spread like "an infectious disease." The list of food processors, retailers, farmers, consumers and governments who give a thumbs down to GMOs is mushrooming. Earlier this year, the world's largest food processors, Unilever and Nestle, said they would reject GM ingredients in their European products. Europe's largest grocery store chains followed suit. Last week, Japanese brewers, Kirin and Sapporo, announced they would begin using only non-genetically engineered maize to brew their beer. The Japanese government now requires companies to label genetically engineered products. In the dog house: Mexico's biggest tortilla maker, Grupo Maseca, says it will stop importing genetically modified grain. After Greenpeace disclosed that commercial baby food contains GMOs, U.S.-based Gerber (Novartis) and H.J. Heinz vowed to reject genetically engineered corn and soya. Adding insult to injury, US pet food company Iams recently announced that GMO maize isn't acceptable for dog food! In Brazil, the world's second largest exporter of soybeans, a federal judge barred the planting of GM soybeans until environmental impact assessments are prepared. The Brazilian state of Rio Grande do Sul has declared itself a GM-free state. Farmers Defecting : Peasants and farmers worldwide, from France to India to Brazil have successfully protested the introduction of GM seeds. Now, even US farmers may be defecting from a genetically modified future. A Deutsche Bank study entitled "GMOs Are Dead" sent tremors through the international investment community with its prediction in May, 1999 that price premiums for GMO seeds could collapse. In a desperate attempt to rescue a sinking ship, Deutsche Bank reports that Monsanto began offering free RoundUp herbicide to farmers who use the company's new RoundUp Ready (herbicide tolerant) maize seed. In growing numbers, American farmers resent being guinea pigs for GMO crops that nobody wants to buy or eat. An uncharacteristically bold press release issued by the American Corn Growers Association last week said that "GMOs have become the albatross around the neck of farmers" and urged its members to plant non-GM seed. The Corn Growers struck at the guts of the issue when it asked, "How does the monopolistic practice of a handful of companies controlling the entire GMO process effect the future of U.S. food production?" http://www.acga.org Reaping what you sow: "It's too soon to declare that GMOs are dead," cautions RAFI's Hope Shand. The fight for food is just beginning. The Gene Giants may soon become bargain buys for bigger fish - the food processors or insurance companies. "When Terminator technology was unveiled 18 months ago, we were all shocked by the extravagance of corporate greed and the specter of self-destructing, suicide seeds. Now, GMO markets are self-destructing. Maybe the Gene Giants are reaping what they sow," said Shand. RAFI's newly updated chart, Seed Industry Consolidation: Who Owns Whom? will be available on RAFI's web site, http:www.rafi.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 4 13:17:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00715 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29330 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:43:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from purple.tmn.com (purple.tmn.com [205.177.137.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29254 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tmn.com ([164.106.173.25]) by purple.tmn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18074; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:39:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D148D3.AF3EAF53@tmn.com> Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:29:07 -0400 From: tabeles Reply-To: tabeles@tmn.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kimberly Stoner , Sanet Subject: Re: Is sustainability a useless word? References: <000601bef64c$07195280$1568f6cd@kim> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2553 Sustainbility is, indeed a useless word within the context that it is currently being used because it ignores time as the critical dimension. A tree may take several centuries to grow and die yet be broken down within months. The consumption/production cycles do not necessarily have to be on the same time scale. Fossil fuels are an interesting example. I am not certain that we are even sure if they are currently being replenished or if we are sure exactly how long it took to create them since this depends on whatever model we have developed to explain their presence. We assume that humans are fully evolved species, yet their very existance is short when compared to the length of time it took Tyrannasaurus Rex and compatriots to just demise, much less rise and evolve. This does not argue for the wanton consumption of resources, though. Nor does it deny the possibility that resources of a certain type, in our current embodiment, are finite and that conservation should not be promoted. What it argues for, in part, is the naive definitions of sustainability promulgated by the Bruntland report which has promoted an extrapolist vision of what future generations will be and what they will or should want and expect. It argues for the fact that humans learn from mistakes and have the ability to self correct because of their big brain. It argues against adopting a Flagellante/Supplicante approach toward our current life-style. Kimberly Stoner wrote:, in a small part: > . After hearing a Swedish organic > farmer (and president of the organic farming organization in Sweden) talk > about how this movement has transformed the thinking about natural > resources, energy, and environment in Sweden, I think The Natural Step > deserves another look from the sustainable agriculture community here. > > ..... but here are the "Four Conditions" as far as I > remember them: > 1. Substances extracted from the earth's crust (e.g. fossil fuels, metals, > other minerals) should not be extracted, dispersed, or used up at a faster > rate than they are being deposited. This is the Myth of time where cycles must coincide. It also does not acknowledge that humans, with their big brain did, indeed, create problems, but may create solutions which are substantively different from our current understanding of how the system has existed in the past. We can not go back to the future. We can not deny that the earth has had many catastrophic changes or that humans, like fire ravaging a forest, may be playing a critical part in the evolution of the planet and the larger system > > 2. Man-made substances should not be produced at a rate faster than they > can be broken down and incorporated into living ecosystems. On the other hand, Mother Nature does not follow this rule either > > 3. The quality of existing ecosystems should not be systematically degraded. And the key here is the operational definition of "degrade". After all, what is farming about but conversion of the ecosystem to human benefit. Is cutting down forests and converting prairie to farms degrading the land? On the other hand, is Mt. St. Helen's eruption not also creating degredation- Life is about birth, growth, deterioration and conversion- Was the environment degraded when the NGO's destroyed the malaria mosquito in Africa which lead to a resultant population explosion with its devastating consequences. Perhaps the Hipocratic oath which is human focused is denying the natural cycle by saving lives and expanding the population > > 4. Existing resources should be used as efficiently and equitably as > possible. The operational term is, of course, "equitably" and therein lies the key. Equitable to whom, people, globally, or the microbes in the rain forest or the termites eating the support beams in your house? Sustainability is a philosophical issue and not an operational term either in the bio/physical or socio/cultural sphere. It informs but can not prescribe thoughts? tom abeles To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 4 14:41:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23885 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08139 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:07:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from pws.gamewood.net (IDENT:root@pws.gamewood.net [199.0.155.48]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08105 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (pts0208.gamewood.net [206.229.249.55]) by pws.gamewood.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA22256 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:06:36 -0400 Message-ID: <002201bef71a$276cba80$37f9e5ce@pavilion> From: "Amy and Eric Johnson" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: Re: Nature Spirit (was: definately related) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:12:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2554 >> In brief, how about starting a new list and let this one go >> back to it's basic purpose. Amen! ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:17:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28893 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:31:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28864 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:31:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14791 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.144]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA82577; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:30:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002f01bef7e8$1f075480$907a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" , "Graze-L" , "Cell Tech/onelist" Subject: Fw: Senate Prayer Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:46:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2555 -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Mescher To: Paul Schmitmeyer Date: Saturday, September 04, 1999 7:11 PM Subject: Fw: Senate Prayer > >-----Original Message----- > > > >> >> >> >>------>> >>> When minister, Joe Wright was asked to open the >>>new >>>session of the Kansas State Senate, everyone was >>>expecting the usual generalities, but this is what >>>they heard: >>> >>> [The Prayer]: >>> >>> "Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask >>>Your forgiveness, and to seek Your direction and >>>guidance. We know Your Word says, "Woe on those who >>>call evil good," but that is exactly what we have >>>done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and >>>reversed our values. We confess that: We have >>>ridiculed the absolute truth of Your Word, and called >>>it pluralism. We have worshiped other gods and called >>>it multiculturalism. We have endorsed perversion, and >>>called it an alternative lifestyle. We have exploited >>>the poor, and called it the lottery. We have rewarded >>>laziness, and called it welfare. We have killed our >>>unborn, and called it choice. We have shot >>>abortionists, and called it justifiable. We have >>>neglected to discipline >>>our children, and called it building self-esteem. We >>>have abused power, and called it politics. We have >>>coveted our neighbor's possessions, and called it >>>ambition. We have polluted the air with profanity and >>>pornography, and called it freedom of expression. We >>>have ridiculed the time-honored values of our >>>forefathers, and called it enlightenment. >>> Search us, Oh God, and know our hearts today; >>>cleanse us from every sin, and set us free. Guide and >>>bless these men and women who have been sent to direct >>>us to the center of Your will. I ask it in the name >>>of Your Son, the living Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen." >>> >>> The response was immediate. A number of >>>legislators >>>walked out during the prayer in protest. In six short >>>weeks, Central Christian Church, where Reverend Wright >>>is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with >>>only >>>47 of those calls responding negatively. The church >>>is >>>now receiving international requests for copies of the >>>prayer from India, Africa, and Korea. Commentator >>>Paul Harvey aired the prayer on "The Rest of the >>>Story" on the radio, and received a larger response to >>>this program than any other he has ever aired. >>> >>> With the Lord's help, may this prayer sweep over >>>our >>>nation, and wholeheartedly become our desire so that >>>we again can be called "one nation under God." >>> >>> >>>__________________________________________________ >>>Do You Yahoo!? >>>Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 6 07:10:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23991 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 07:10:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09432 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:24:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09427 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01404 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d02-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.2]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA11084; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:22:54 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Paul Schmitmeyer" , "Sanet" Subject: sustainability and multiculturalism etc, was .. Senate Prayer Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:28:59 +1000 Message-ID: <000701bef852$a17ec8c0$023325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002f01bef7e8$1f075480$907a5acf@oemcomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2556 I'm afraid that this [below] is the kind of statistically meaningless, distorted self promotion, in support of narrow-minded obsession, that I have been more accustomed to reading in the past when studying news broadcasts out of North Korea, or China during the Cultural Revolution. Sustainable agriculture must have as its basis pluralistic perspectives, multicultural perspectives, broad ecological tolerance, INCLUDING WITHIN OUR OWN SPECIES. Anyone remember the war in Kosovo? Or maybe WW2? These were about multiculturalism, pluralism and tolerance, and we, meaning your country and mine (Australia) then opposed the enemies of multiculturalism, pluralism and tolerance. ALL the opponents of multiculturalism, pluralism and tolerance think they are righteous, make no mistake. That's what makes them serious enemies. Dennis >>> In six short >>>weeks, Central Christian Church, where Reverend Wright >>>is pastor, logged more than 5,000 phone calls with >>>only >>>47 of those calls responding negatively. The church >>>is >>>now receiving international requests for copies of the >>>prayer from India, Africa, and Korea. Commentator >>>Paul Harvey aired the prayer on "The Rest of the >>>Story" on the radio, and received a larger response to >>>this program than any other he has ever aired. >>> >>> With the Lord's help, may this prayer sweep over >>>our >>>nation, and wholeheartedly become our desire so that >>>we again can be called "one nation under God." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Mon Sep 6 09:37:09 1999 Received: from listserv.oit.unc.edu (listserv.oit.unc.edu [152.2.25.17]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25027 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41756 "HELO localhost" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165380-1096>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:35:57 -0400 Received: from coyote.rain.org ([198.68.144.2]:3444 "HELO coyote.rain.org" ident: "postfix") by listserv.oit.unc.edu with SMTP id <165380-1091>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:33:27 -0400 Received: from sals (mp139.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.139]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 26E9A6174C; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <008e01bef86d$6487d5e0$8b9144c6@rain.org> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:40:31 -0700 Reply-To: permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu Sender: owner-permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu From: "Sal" To: , , Subject: Fw: Bad Anti-Biological Control Bills Pending in the US Congress and Senate. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01BEF832.B6F33D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Orcpt: rfc822;permaculture@listserv.oit.unc.edu X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2557 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BEF832.B6F33D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: kim defazio=20 To: sals@rain.org=20 Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 1:44 AM Subject: Bad Anti-Biological Control Bills Pending in the US Congress = and Senate. Editor: Please make this known. =20 Two proposals H.R. 1504 and S. 910 will establish conditions that will = guarantee more pesticide use, greater adoption of genetically modified = organisms (GMO'S) and slow the implementation of the Food Quality = Protection Act (FQPA) by greatly limiting access to biological control = alternatives. These laws do not make any distinction between beneficial = biological control organisms and harmful "plant pests". They are not = the same thing, that interpretation would serve only one purpose; the = wholesale repression of biological control technology. Organic farming = and sustainable agriculture will be crippled, biological farming will be = dead on arrival. These bills are are fatally flawed and should be = withdraw. They are poison pills, with a plausible exterior and = unacceptable improperly defined, counterproductive content. =20 While there is still time, they are presently still in committee, obtain = the full text of these bills, read them carefully and let the Honorable = Dan Gickman, Secretary U.S. Department of Agriculture, 14th St.and = Independence Ave. SW, Washington, DC 20250. Fax: 202-720-2166 just what = you think. Contact your local elected officials and make it clear that = this is not just a bill that "will take proactive measures to prevent = noxious weeds and foreign organisms from destroying crops." as the = analysis of the bill reported to our elected officials states. Instead = it is the work of remarkable cowards who would repress biological = control technology to maintain a option sterilized landscape for the = multinational agrochemical and genetic engineering corporations. These = bills would serve magnificently in their relentless assault on the = family farm.=20 =20 The protections these bills claim a need for already exist. = Collectively the Plant Quarantine Act; 7 U.S.C. 151-164a, 167 of 1912, = The Federal Plant Pest Act (7 U.S.C. 150aa et seq., 7 U.S.C. 147a note), = Department of Agriculture Organic Act of 1944 (7U.S.C. 147a), and The Federal Noxious Weed Act of 1974 (7 U.S.C. 2814) = already do what this new bill offers; with one important difference "the = only good bug is a dead bug" anti-biological control component has been = imbedded. This is a sneaky but sadly predictable was to get around the = complete drubbing that USDA took on the biological control regulation = "strawman" document, that was put out for public comment a few years = back that was universally slammed by all comenters, then withdrawn. = Apparently this is the clandestine resurrection of the rules and = regulations that nobody wanted. =20 "Protecting" us from saner, safer, more affordable and environmentally = benign pest management is not in the best interest of the common good. = Biological control has one of the best health and safety, environmental = and economic return records of any human enterprise. What is this? = Biological control is the very engine that drives the planet it goes on = around us every minute of every day. Biological control has already been = "beta tested" for 2.5 billion years and proven itself worthy. Life and = life process will be both "owned" and regulated by this pending = authority. =20 =20 The definitions in this bill are acutely worse than the botched organic = standards proposal. Biological control organisms are not plant pests. = We should all demand an explanation for why they are being are they = being labeled that way. There is no scientific justification for such a = representation. You only have to look at the enforcement aspect of = these bills to see just how dangerous and silly they are. Put another = way this law will "protect" the environment from the environment. This = is nothing less than arrogant hubris. IPM practitioners will have no = fear of having to integrate their coveted pesticides with any bothersome = living component, the mission will then be accomplished. =20 =20 The terms I personally thought I would never hear in association with = biological control include warrantless searches, Secretary of Treasury, = contraband, prohibition on intrastate and interstate movement. Sec. 105 = Biological Control and "Declaration of Extraordinary Emergency and = Resulting Authorities." United States Magistrate Judge, warrant for = entry, Enforcement of subpoena, Criminal penalties for violation, A. = $50,000.00 Dollars in the case of any individual, $250,000.00 in the = case of any other person, and $500,000.00 in the case of all violations = adjudicated in a single proceeding, settlement of civil penalties, and a = year in prison. Some of these penalties are greater than violating drug = laws. Is this being done to "taint" biological control as = "risky","dangerous" and marginally illegal? =20 I guess the real question is do we have enough prisons to make room for = large number of government employees that apparently must have been = criminally negligent up until now for not protecting us from these awful = "risks"? Why would have our government and elected officials failed to = protect the public all these years from enormous dangers associated with = the use of ladybugs, lacewings, and nematode that this pending = legislation implies in its draconian enforcement severity? Unless there = is no real risk and this is a very serious snow job being played out at = public expense. Have the advertisements in the back of gardening = magazines actually been representing shills for the risky and = dangerous"bug trade"? The trials will probably go on for years. The = television spin-off, Ladybug Cops, and Land Grant Entomologist "Secret = Agent's", busting down the door of an illegal bug traffickers will win = our Friday night time slots. Exposing the operators unlicensed = beneficial predatory spider mite operations will be the work of the = "Americas Most Wanted" program. Kicking the door in on a family farm = for a ladybug harvesting operation, will all be good fun. Has poor = science education in America come to this? Will people now be arrested = for criminal pesticide evasion? There is something horribly wrong here. =20 As a practical matter these laws will be grossly abused. They are = pointed directly at the family farmer and alternative agriculture. They = will give legal authority to those individual employees that have been = hostile and obstructionists for many years deeply imbedded in many = federal and state governments and public institutions, such as the = extension service of our land grant universities and some State = Department of Agriculture's. The direct result will have an immediate = and sustained cooling effect biological control projects nationwide. = Who would want to be the test case for these kinds of exaggerated fines = and penalties and you can just about count on someone zealously working = to justify these outrageous proposals, to show just how "necessary" they = really are. I am surprised ladybugs were not named as tools of = bioterrorism in this outrageous artificial construction. =20 Who actually authored this defective "product", chemical pesticide = industry representatives, or maciavellian bureaucrats working to expand = fiefdoms? Obviously somebody wants them, but these bills are clearly = not in the best interest of the majority of the American people. Patrick D. McKown, Samuel DeFazio, Jean E. McKown, Praxis. 616-673-2793. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BEF832.B6F33D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

     
    check out a organic growers web page
    http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.h= tml
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: kim defazio =
    Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 1:44 AM
    Subject: Bad Anti-Biological Control Bills Pending in the US = Congress and Senate.

    Editor: Please make = this=20 known.
     
    Two proposals H.R. 1504 and = S. 910 will=20 establish conditions that will guarantee more pesticide use, = greater=20 adoption of genetically modified organisms (GMO'S) and slow the = implementation=20 of the Food Quality Protection Act (FQPA) by greatly limiting access to=20 biological control alternatives.  These laws do not make any = distinction=20 between beneficial biological control organisms and harmful "plant = pests". =20 They are not the same thing, that interpretation would serve only one = purpose;=20 the wholesale repression of biological control technology. Organic = farming and=20 sustainable agriculture will be crippled, biological farming will be = dead on=20 arrival.  These bills are are fatally flawed and should be = withdraw. =20 They are poison pills, with a plausible exterior and unacceptable = improperly=20 defined, counterproductive content.
     
    While there is still time, they are = presently=20 still in committee, obtain the full text of these bills, read them = carefully and=20 let the Honorable Dan Gickman, Secretary U.S. = Department of=20 Agriculture, 14th St.and Independence Ave. SW, Washington, DC = 20250.  Fax:=20 202-720-2166 just what you think. Contact your local = elected=20 officials and make it clear that this is not just a bill that "will take = proactive measures to prevent noxious weeds and foreign organisms from=20 destroying crops." as the analysis of the bill reported to our elected = officials=20 states. Instead it is the work of remarkable cowards who would repress=20 biological control technology to maintain a option sterilized landscape = for the=20 multinational agrochemical and genetic engineering corporations.  = These=20 bills would serve magnificently in their relentless assault on the = family farm.=20
     
    The protections these bills claim a need for = already=20 exist.  Collectively the Plant Quarantine Act; 7 U.S.C. = 151-164a,=20 167 of 1912, The Federal Plant Pest Act (7 U.S.C. 150aa et seq., 7 = U.S.C. 147a=20 note), Department of Agriculture Organic Act of 1944
    (7U.S.C. 147a), and The Federal Noxious Weed Act of = 1974 (7=20 U.S.C. 2814) already do what this new bill offers; with one important=20 difference "the only good bug is a dead bug" = anti-biological=20 control component has been imbedded.  This is a sneaky but sadly=20 predictable was to get around the complete drubbing that USDA took on = the=20 biological control regulation "strawman" document, that was put out for = public=20 comment a few years back that was universally slammed by all comenters, = then=20 withdrawn.  Apparently this is the clandestine=20 resurrection of the rules and regulations that nobody = wanted.
     
     "Protecting" us = from saner,=20 safer, more affordable and environmentally benign pest management = is=20 not in the best interest of the common good.  Biological control = has one of=20 the best health and safety, environmental and economic return records of = any=20 human enterprise.  What is this? Biological control is the very = engine that=20 drives the planet it goes on around us every minute of every day. = Biological=20 control has already been "beta tested" for 2.5 billion years and proven = itself=20 worthy. Life and life process will be both "owned" and regulated by this = pending=20 authority. 
     
    The definitions in = this bill=20 are acutely worse than the botched organic standards = proposal. =20 Biological control organisms are not plant pests.  = We should all demand an explanation for why they are being are = they=20 being labeled that way.  There is no scientific justification for = such a=20 representationYou only have to look at the = enforcement=20 aspect of these bills to see just how dangerous and silly they are. Put = another=20 way this law will "protect" the environment from the environment. This = is=20 nothing less than arrogant hubris.  IPM practitioners will have no = fear of=20 having to integrate their coveted pesticides with any bothersome living=20 component, the mission will then be = accomplished.     =20
     
    The terms I personally thought I would never = hear in=20 association with biological control=20 include warrantless searches,  Secretary of Treasury, = contraband,=20 prohibition on intrastate and interstate movement.  Sec. 105 =20 Biological Control and "Declaration of Extraordinary Emergency and = Resulting=20 Authorities." United States Magistrate Judge, warrant for entry, = Enforcement of=20 subpoena, Criminal penalties for violation, A. = $50,000.00=20 Dollars in the case of any individual, $250,000.00 in the case of = any other person, and $500,000.00 in the case of all violations = adjudicated in a single proceeding, settlement of civil penalties, and a = year in=20 prison. Some of these penalties are greater than violating drug laws. Is = this=20 being done to "taint" biological control as "risky","dangerous" and = marginally=20 illegal?
     
    I guess the real question is do we have = enough prisons=20 to make room for large number of government employees that = apparently=20 must have been criminally negligent up until now for not protecting us = from=20 these awful "risks"?  Why would have our government and elected = officials=20 failed to protect the public all these years from enormous dangers = associated=20 with the use of ladybugs, lacewings, and nematode that this pending = legislation=20 implies in its draconian enforcement severity? Unless there is = no real=20 risk and this is a very serious snow job being played out at public = expense.=20 Have the advertisements in the back of gardening magazines actually been = representing shills for the risky and dangerous"bug trade"?  The = trials=20 will probably go on for years.  The television spin-off, Ladybug = Cops, and=20 Land Grant Entomologist "Secret Agent's", busting down the door of an = illegal=20 bug traffickers will win our Friday night time slots.  Exposing the = operators unlicensed beneficial predatory spider mite operations will be = the=20 work of the "Americas Most Wanted" program.  Kicking the door in on = a=20 family farm for a ladybug harvesting operation, will all be good = fun.  Has=20 poor science education in America come to this?  Will people now be = arrested for criminal pesticide evasion? There is something horribly = wrong=20 here.
     
     As a practical=20 matter these laws will be grossly abused.  They are = pointed=20 directly at the family farmer and alternative agriculture.  = They will give legal authority to those = individual=20 employees that have been hostile and obstructionists for many years = deeply=20 imbedded in many federal and state governments and public institutions, = such as=20 the extension service of our land grant universities and some State = Department=20 of Agriculture's.  The direct result will have an immediate and = sustained=20 cooling effect biological control projects=20 nationwide.  Who would want to be the test = case for=20 these kinds of exaggerated fines and penalties and you can just about = count on=20 someone zealously working to justify these outrageous proposals, to show = just=20 how "necessary" they really are.  I am surprised ladybugs were not = named as=20 tools of bioterrorism in this outrageous artificial = construction.
     
    Who actually authored this defective=20 "product", chemical pesticide industry representatives, or = maciavellian=20 bureaucrats working to expand fiefdoms?  Obviously somebody wants = them, but=20 these bills are clearly not in the best interest of the majority of the = American=20 people.
     
    Patrick D. McKown, Samuel DeFazio, = Jean E.=20 McKown, Praxis.=20 616-673-2793.
    ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BEF832.B6F33D00-- From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 6 10:26:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25751 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05055 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:35:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05050 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 09:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp139.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.139]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 26E9A6174C; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008e01bef86d$6487d5e0$8b9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , , Subject: Fw: Bad Anti-Biological Control Bills Pending in the US Congress and Senate. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 06:40:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008B_01BEF832.B6F33D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2558 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BEF832.B6F33D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: kim defazio=20 To: sals@rain.org=20 Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 1:44 AM Subject: Bad Anti-Biological Control Bills Pending in the US Congress = and Senate. Editor: Please make this known. =20 Two proposals H.R. 1504 and S. 910 will establish conditions that will = guarantee more pesticide use, greater adoption of genetically modified = organisms (GMO'S) and slow the implementation of the Food Quality = Protection Act (FQPA) by greatly limiting access to biological control = alternatives. These laws do not make any distinction between beneficial = biological control organisms and harmful "plant pests". They are not = the same thing, that interpretation would serve only one purpose; the = wholesale repression of biological control technology. Organic farming = and sustainable agriculture will be crippled, biological farming will be = dead on arrival. These bills are are fatally flawed and should be = withdraw. They are poison pills, with a plausible exterior and = unacceptable improperly defined, counterproductive content. =20 While there is still time, they are presently still in committee, obtain = the full text of these bills, read them carefully and let the Honorable = Dan Gickman, Secretary U.S. Department of Agriculture, 14th St.and = Independence Ave. SW, Washington, DC 20250. Fax: 202-720-2166 just what = you think. Contact your local elected officials and make it clear that = this is not just a bill that "will take proactive measures to prevent = noxious weeds and foreign organisms from destroying crops." as the = analysis of the bill reported to our elected officials states. Instead = it is the work of remarkable cowards who would repress biological = control technology to maintain a option sterilized landscape for the = multinational agrochemical and genetic engineering corporations. These = bills would serve magnificently in their relentless assault on the = family farm.=20 =20 The protections these bills claim a need for already exist. = Collectively the Plant Quarantine Act; 7 U.S.C. 151-164a, 167 of 1912, = The Federal Plant Pest Act (7 U.S.C. 150aa et seq., 7 U.S.C. 147a note), = Department of Agriculture Organic Act of 1944 (7U.S.C. 147a), and The Federal Noxious Weed Act of 1974 (7 U.S.C. 2814) = already do what this new bill offers; with one important difference "the = only good bug is a dead bug" anti-biological control component has been = imbedded. This is a sneaky but sadly predictable was to get around the = complete drubbing that USDA took on the biological control regulation = "strawman" document, that was put out for public comment a few years = back that was universally slammed by all comenters, then withdrawn. = Apparently this is the clandestine resurrection of the rules and = regulations that nobody wanted. =20 "Protecting" us from saner, safer, more affordable and environmentally = benign pest management is not in the best interest of the common good. = Biological control has one of the best health and safety, environmental = and economic return records of any human enterprise. What is this? = Biological control is the very engine that drives the planet it goes on = around us every minute of every day. Biological control has already been = "beta tested" for 2.5 billion years and proven itself worthy. Life and = life process will be both "owned" and regulated by this pending = authority. =20 =20 The definitions in this bill are acutely worse than the botched organic = standards proposal. Biological control organisms are not plant pests. = We should all demand an explanation for why they are being are they = being labeled that way. There is no scientific justification for such a = representation. You only have to look at the enforcement aspect of = these bills to see just how dangerous and silly they are. Put another = way this law will "protect" the environment from the environment. This = is nothing less than arrogant hubris. IPM practitioners will have no = fear of having to integrate their coveted pesticides with any bothersome = living component, the mission will then be accomplished. =20 =20 The terms I personally thought I would never hear in association with = biological control include warrantless searches, Secretary of Treasury, = contraband, prohibition on intrastate and interstate movement. Sec. 105 = Biological Control and "Declaration of Extraordinary Emergency and = Resulting Authorities." United States Magistrate Judge, warrant for = entry, Enforcement of subpoena, Criminal penalties for violation, A. = $50,000.00 Dollars in the case of any individual, $250,000.00 in the = case of any other person, and $500,000.00 in the case of all violations = adjudicated in a single proceeding, settlement of civil penalties, and a = year in prison. Some of these penalties are greater than violating drug = laws. Is this being done to "taint" biological control as = "risky","dangerous" and marginally illegal? =20 I guess the real question is do we have enough prisons to make room for = large number of government employees that apparently must have been = criminally negligent up until now for not protecting us from these awful = "risks"? Why would have our government and elected officials failed to = protect the public all these years from enormous dangers associated with = the use of ladybugs, lacewings, and nematode that this pending = legislation implies in its draconian enforcement severity? Unless there = is no real risk and this is a very serious snow job being played out at = public expense. Have the advertisements in the back of gardening = magazines actually been representing shills for the risky and = dangerous"bug trade"? The trials will probably go on for years. The = television spin-off, Ladybug Cops, and Land Grant Entomologist "Secret = Agent's", busting down the door of an illegal bug traffickers will win = our Friday night time slots. Exposing the operators unlicensed = beneficial predatory spider mite operations will be the work of the = "Americas Most Wanted" program. Kicking the door in on a family farm = for a ladybug harvesting operation, will all be good fun. Has poor = science education in America come to this? Will people now be arrested = for criminal pesticide evasion? There is something horribly wrong here. =20 As a practical matter these laws will be grossly abused. They are = pointed directly at the family farmer and alternative agriculture. They = will give legal authority to those individual employees that have been = hostile and obstructionists for many years deeply imbedded in many = federal and state governments and public institutions, such as the = extension service of our land grant universities and some State = Department of Agriculture's. The direct result will have an immediate = and sustained cooling effect biological control projects nationwide. = Who would want to be the test case for these kinds of exaggerated fines = and penalties and you can just about count on someone zealously working = to justify these outrageous proposals, to show just how "necessary" they = really are. I am surprised ladybugs were not named as tools of = bioterrorism in this outrageous artificial construction. =20 Who actually authored this defective "product", chemical pesticide = industry representatives, or maciavellian bureaucrats working to expand = fiefdoms? Obviously somebody wants them, but these bills are clearly = not in the best interest of the majority of the American people. Patrick D. McKown, Samuel DeFazio, Jean E. McKown, Praxis. 616-673-2793. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BEF832.B6F33D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     
    check out a organic growers web page
    http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.h= tml
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: kim defazio =
    Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 1:44 AM
    Subject: Bad Anti-Biological Control Bills Pending in the US = Congress and Senate.

    Editor: Please make = this=20 known.
     
    Two proposals H.R. 1504 and = S. 910 will=20 establish conditions that will guarantee more pesticide use, = greater=20 adoption of genetically modified organisms (GMO'S) and slow the = implementation=20 of the Food Quality Protection Act (FQPA) by greatly limiting access to=20 biological control alternatives.  These laws do not make any = distinction=20 between beneficial biological control organisms and harmful "plant = pests". =20 They are not the same thing, that interpretation would serve only one = purpose;=20 the wholesale repression of biological control technology. Organic = farming and=20 sustainable agriculture will be crippled, biological farming will be = dead on=20 arrival.  These bills are are fatally flawed and should be = withdraw. =20 They are poison pills, with a plausible exterior and unacceptable = improperly=20 defined, counterproductive content.
     
    While there is still time, they are = presently=20 still in committee, obtain the full text of these bills, read them = carefully and=20 let the Honorable Dan Gickman, Secretary U.S. = Department of=20 Agriculture, 14th St.and Independence Ave. SW, Washington, DC = 20250.  Fax:=20 202-720-2166 just what you think. Contact your local = elected=20 officials and make it clear that this is not just a bill that "will take = proactive measures to prevent noxious weeds and foreign organisms from=20 destroying crops." as the analysis of the bill reported to our elected = officials=20 states. Instead it is the work of remarkable cowards who would repress=20 biological control technology to maintain a option sterilized landscape = for the=20 multinational agrochemical and genetic engineering corporations.  = These=20 bills would serve magnificently in their relentless assault on the = family farm.=20
     
    The protections these bills claim a need for = already=20 exist.  Collectively the Plant Quarantine Act; 7 U.S.C. = 151-164a,=20 167 of 1912, The Federal Plant Pest Act (7 U.S.C. 150aa et seq., 7 = U.S.C. 147a=20 note), Department of Agriculture Organic Act of 1944
    (7U.S.C. 147a), and The Federal Noxious Weed Act of = 1974 (7=20 U.S.C. 2814) already do what this new bill offers; with one important=20 difference "the only good bug is a dead bug" = anti-biological=20 control component has been imbedded.  This is a sneaky but sadly=20 predictable was to get around the complete drubbing that USDA took on = the=20 biological control regulation "strawman" document, that was put out for = public=20 comment a few years back that was universally slammed by all comenters, = then=20 withdrawn.  Apparently this is the clandestine=20 resurrection of the rules and regulations that nobody = wanted.
     
     "Protecting" us = from saner,=20 safer, more affordable and environmentally benign pest management = is=20 not in the best interest of the common good.  Biological control = has one of=20 the best health and safety, environmental and economic return records of = any=20 human enterprise.  What is this? Biological control is the very = engine that=20 drives the planet it goes on around us every minute of every day. = Biological=20 control has already been "beta tested" for 2.5 billion years and proven = itself=20 worthy. Life and life process will be both "owned" and regulated by this = pending=20 authority. 
     
    The definitions in = this bill=20 are acutely worse than the botched organic standards = proposal. =20 Biological control organisms are not plant pests.  = We should all demand an explanation for why they are being are = they=20 being labeled that way.  There is no scientific justification for = such a=20 representationYou only have to look at the = enforcement=20 aspect of these bills to see just how dangerous and silly they are. Put = another=20 way this law will "protect" the environment from the environment. This = is=20 nothing less than arrogant hubris.  IPM practitioners will have no = fear of=20 having to integrate their coveted pesticides with any bothersome living=20 component, the mission will then be = accomplished.     =20
     
    The terms I personally thought I would never = hear in=20 association with biological control=20 include warrantless searches,  Secretary of Treasury, = contraband,=20 prohibition on intrastate and interstate movement.  Sec. 105 =20 Biological Control and "Declaration of Extraordinary Emergency and = Resulting=20 Authorities." United States Magistrate Judge, warrant for entry, = Enforcement of=20 subpoena, Criminal penalties for violation, A. = $50,000.00=20 Dollars in the case of any individual, $250,000.00 in the case of = any other person, and $500,000.00 in the case of all violations = adjudicated in a single proceeding, settlement of civil penalties, and a = year in=20 prison. Some of these penalties are greater than violating drug laws. Is = this=20 being done to "taint" biological control as "risky","dangerous" and = marginally=20 illegal?
     
    I guess the real question is do we have = enough prisons=20 to make room for large number of government employees that = apparently=20 must have been criminally negligent up until now for not protecting us = from=20 these awful "risks"?  Why would have our government and elected = officials=20 failed to protect the public all these years from enormous dangers = associated=20 with the use of ladybugs, lacewings, and nematode that this pending = legislation=20 implies in its draconian enforcement severity? Unless there is = no real=20 risk and this is a very serious snow job being played out at public = expense.=20 Have the advertisements in the back of gardening magazines actually been = representing shills for the risky and dangerous"bug trade"?  The = trials=20 will probably go on for years.  The television spin-off, Ladybug = Cops, and=20 Land Grant Entomologist "Secret Agent's", busting down the door of an = illegal=20 bug traffickers will win our Friday night time slots.  Exposing the = operators unlicensed beneficial predatory spider mite operations will be = the=20 work of the "Americas Most Wanted" program.  Kicking the door in on = a=20 family farm for a ladybug harvesting operation, will all be good = fun.  Has=20 poor science education in America come to this?  Will people now be = arrested for criminal pesticide evasion? There is something horribly = wrong=20 here.
     
     As a practical=20 matter these laws will be grossly abused.  They are = pointed=20 directly at the family farmer and alternative agriculture.  = They will give legal authority to those = individual=20 employees that have been hostile and obstructionists for many years = deeply=20 imbedded in many federal and state governments and public institutions, = such as=20 the extension service of our land grant universities and some State = Department=20 of Agriculture's.  The direct result will have an immediate and = sustained=20 cooling effect biological control projects=20 nationwide.  Who would want to be the test = case for=20 these kinds of exaggerated fines and penalties and you can just about = count on=20 someone zealously working to justify these outrageous proposals, to show = just=20 how "necessary" they really are.  I am surprised ladybugs were not = named as=20 tools of bioterrorism in this outrageous artificial = construction.
     
    Who actually authored this defective=20 "product", chemical pesticide industry representatives, or = maciavellian=20 bureaucrats working to expand fiefdoms?  Obviously somebody wants = them, but=20 these bills are clearly not in the best interest of the majority of the = American=20 people.
     
    Patrick D. McKown, Samuel DeFazio, = Jean E.=20 McKown, Praxis.=20 616-673-2793.
    ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BEF832.B6F33D00-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 6 12:00:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27287 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19383 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:18:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19273 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:20:07 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.145] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AB13107D01F0; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 10:17:39 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 15:14:43 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: sustainability and multiculturalism Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2559 On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:28:59 +1000, Argall Family wrote: >pluralism and tolerance. ALL the opponents of multiculturalism, pluralism >and tolerance think they are righteous, make no mistake. That's what makes >them serious enemies. I come back to my point of a few days ago, borrowing from Vaclav Havel, about restoring the real meaning of words, to live in truth. And from Lenin about controlling terminology. There is a major power struggle in the US, and probably elsewhere, to redefine terms to our liking and then apply their new meanings retroactively. This is happening in sustainable agriculture as well, as for example the legislation before Congress to redefine many beneficial insects, entomopathogens, and fungal antagonists as "Plant Pests." I repeat my example about high-herbicide no-till being redefined as "sustainable" (even when it means the destruction of native tallgrass prairie). Thus we face the sorry spectacle of tolerance being redefined from "indulgence of practices or beliefs different from one's own" (Merriam-Webster) to active affirmation of and support for those beliefs. If you don't affirm and support beliefs and practices different from your own, your are now defined as "intolerant" or even worse --- such as "serious enemies." In such an environment, multiculturalism is redefined to mean that all cultures are equal. They are *not,* as anyone who has spent much time as a visitor to the White Trash culture will readily attest. Pluralism is redefined from a free interchange of ideas and evaluation of their truth claims to a new meaning in which all *ideas* (or even feelings !) are equally valid. In its extreme forms, pluralism would hold that "There is no god but Allah, and Ronald McDonald is his prophet." is a belief of equal value to "There is no god but Allah, and Muhamet is his prophet." What patent nonsense. In sustainable agriculture the equivalent is to say that "a nutrient is a nutrient is a nutrient," and that all forms of fertilizer are equally valid. Anhydrous ammonia and alfalfa are equally valid sources of nitrogen, and to suggest that one is actually better than the other is to be intolerant. Attempting to compare tolerance (as applied to the Holocaust), or multi-culturalism (as applied in the Austro-Hungarian empire), or pluralism of ideas (as applied in discourse, debate, or even the corner soapbox) to the modern redefinitions thereof is akin to comparing two temperatures when one is in Celsius and the other in Farenheit. When we examine these broader issues in light of their agricultural analogues it becomes clear (to me at least) that the purpose of examining differences is precisely to evaluate their relative validity and value. That doesn't mean we run out an exterminate all farmers using anhydrous and blow up every nurse-tank in the county, but neither does it mean that we stifle all debate on the matter in the name of tolerance and pluralism, branding those favoring anhydrous as "hateful." Currently, "tolerance" and "pluralism" (redefined versions) are being used intentionally to stifle debate and discussion of the relative values of behaviours, belief systems, and cultural values. This CONTRAPHOBIA (fear of opposition, not a real word, but I think it fits!) has led to an environment in which one side is doing all in its power to silence debate by branding any opposition as "hate." The incredible irony in sustainable agriculture is that it is the conventional side usually trying to stifle the debate, whereas in the social arena it is the relativists trying to silence the conventional side. I would think that if any group of people would be sensitive to that dynamic, it would be sustainable agriculture folks. Yet many who rail against it when they are on the receiving end in agriculture seem to have no hesitation about dishing it out themselves in the social arena. Am I the only one who finds that sort of Macchievellian inconsistency somewhat disturbing? And does it not undermine our credibility? Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 6 19:50:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03497 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:50:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07703 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:25:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07699 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11927 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EKVBRPX4; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 19:21:58 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:06:59 -0700 Subject: guinea fowl Message-ID: <19990906.160700.3534.3.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4,8,14,20-22 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2560 Dear SANET Friends: Last spring a friend (I think) gave me 4 guinea fowl. My delight didn't last long. (If you want to know what I don't like about guineas and turkeys, contact me off-line to avoid boring everyone else with my tales of woe.) I contacted another friend who had guineas and, to my relief, he wanted them. His flock was down to one elderly hen and he wanted to give her company. That seemed like a good ending to a nightmare, but he's back with questions I can't answer. Maybe someone out there can. 1) Is there some way, short of standing guard all day on his front porch for my friend (who, incidentaly, admits "I love those guys") to keep them from hanging out and pooping in front of his front door? I suggested a spray of water but he says he's tried that but can't stay there ALL the time. I told him I'd heard that a sprinkling of chili pepper has been used to discourage pigons and he's thinking of trying it. 2) Is there some way to keep them from plucking all the feathers from the one on the bottom of the pecking order? Actually, the one on the very bottom of the pecking order now hangs out with the elderly hen, but two of them gang up on the next-lowest one and have pulled out all its tail feathers and many of the wing feathers. (After the way they treated my chickens, it doesn't suprise me a bit.) Any suggestions out there? Best regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 6 21:26:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04702 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20177 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:02:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20137 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DigitalArk.ark.com (io5p7.ark.com [209.53.216.159]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with ESMTP id SAA04636 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:01:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199909070101.SAA04636@ark.com> From: "Ellen Rainwalker" To: Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1276 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:01:10 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2561 That senate prayer is SCAREY!! Sounds like the one nation under one self-righteous vengeful male god to me. Wouldn't want any part of that one. Anyhow, isn't this forum supposed to be about agriculture, not fundamentalist christianity? Ellen To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 6 21:27:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04710 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19927 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:01:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19889 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:01:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.47 (mx3-103.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.246]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA32448; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:00:31 -0500 Message-ID: <37D46704.7E21@smallfarms.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 15:14:45 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: [Fwd: Re: Free Almonds] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------77C172892507" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2562 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------77C172892507 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for catching this, Barbara. Saneters please take note, The correct phone number for Sherry, the organic almond grower is (530) 796 2237. --------------77C172892507 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23038 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:50:41 -0500 Received: from dante38.u.washington.edu (bbwetzel@dante38.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.198]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id OAA24282 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:50:41 -0700 Received: from localhost (bbwetzel@localhost) by dante38.u.washington.edu (8.9.3+UW99.02/8.9.3+UW99.01) with ESMTP id OAA73538 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:50:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "B. Wetzel" To: Glenn Subject: Re: Free Almonds In-Reply-To: <37CF11DD.15E7@smallfarms.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Do you mean 530 area code? 503 is Oregon. BW Barbara Wetzel On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Glenn wrote: > Hello: > > Sherry, an organic almond grower 1.5 hrs. north of Berkley, Ca.is > offering free almonds at her farm. U pick. She wants to avoid rotting > fruit and things that eat rotten fruit in her orchard. > > Tell your customers about her. Call her at (503) 796-2237 and/or see > smallfarms.com for more details. > > glenn > Buy from the Farmer > www.smallfarms.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > --------------77C172892507-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 6 22:37:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05381 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23444 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:08:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23429 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandy.surfsouth.com (IDENT:root@sandy.surfsouth.com [205.139.60.110]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13915 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from surfsouth.com (02-ocil-03e.dial.optilinkcomm.net [216.128.152.188]) by sandy.surfsouth.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27369 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:07:08 -0400 Message-ID: <37D4730E.14D9D08@surfsouth.com> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 22:06:07 -0400 From: David Drexler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: wayward guineas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2563 Greetings Edna Seems you are asking for the wrong thing. Ask if any one has any recipes for guineas. DD To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 6 23:30:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05958 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19386 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:04:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19380 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10482; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:39:57 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Economic Reporting Review Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2564 Howdy, all-- If you, like me, spend more time yelling at /The New York Times/ or /Washington Post/ than it takes to read them... ...you might have interest in the following resource. It spots the errors of fact or interpretative biases/assumptions in these two newspapers' reporting on economic issues. It's called the Economic Reporting Review, a weekly service of FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, which has been supplying analysis, fact-checking, and bias-checking of media content since 1986) and The Preamble Center (a DC-based research center whose main interest is the economic problems confronting working families). http://www.fair.org/err/index.html The Economic Reporting Review is authored by Dean Baker. Here's one item from this week's review, so you can get a flavor of it. The format presents the title, author, and source of the article in question, and then Baker's critique. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Inflation? It Just Doesn't Add Up" Sylvia Nasar New York Times, August 22, 1999, Section 3 page 1 This article examines the factors that have helped to keep inflation low during this expansion. While much of the analysis is insightful, it includes several statements that are inaccurate or misleading. For example, at one point it contrasts the current period of stable low inflation with the "bad old days, when upwardly spiraling prices seemed as inevitable as the sunrise." This description of the bad old days really refers to just two periods: the gradual acceleration of inflation in the late '60s, which was associated with the escalation of the Vietnam War, and the oil shock driven inflation of the '70s. The '80s were characterized by declining and then stable inflation and the '50s by generally low inflation. Examined against the backdrop of the entire post-war period, the experience of the '90s does not stand out as being unusual. The article also asserts that increased competition due to the deregulation of industries such as airlines, railroads and telecommunications has been a major factor in keeping prices down. This claim seems dubious, since corporations have managed to increase their profit margins considerably in the last two decades. In 1978, at the profit peak of the late '70s business cycle, the capital share (profits plus interest) of corporate income was 19.1 percent. By comparison in 1997, the profit peak in the current cycle, the profit share of corporate income had risen by more than two and a half percentage points to 21.6 percent. The fact that firms have been able to significantly increase their profit margins seems inconsistent with the claim that they are feeling greater competitive pressures. The article also comments on the high human costs associated with prior recessions which were induced to control inflation. It asserts that the memory of these recessions help keep inflation at bay. Although the Federal Reserve Board did use unemployment to control inflation in the '70s and '80s, it does not follow that this was the only possible way to control inflation. Nor is it obviously the case, that in the absence of the extraordinary events of the '60s and '70s-a major war and an effective oil cartel-that the United States economy faces the prospect of anything other than a minor acceleration in the rate of inflation. There are two small errors in the article that are worth noting. The article notes a comment from Northwestern University Professor Robert Gordon, that declining computer prices have reduced the annual rate of inflation by half a percentage point. While this comment is accurate, it refers to the inflation rate measured by the GDP deflator. The inflation rate measured by the consumer price index (CPI) is the main focus of the article. The impact of falling computer prices has been to lower the rate of inflation measured by the CPI by approximately 0.05 percentage points since 1998. Prior to 1998 the impact of falling computer prices on the CPI inflation rate was considerably smaller. The other error is a graph accompanying the article which is labeled as the "four-quarter moving average of the medical care component of Consumer Price Index." The graph actually shows the difference between the inflation rate shown by medical care component and the overall Consumer Price Index. SOURCE: Dean Baker, the Economic Reporting Review, http://www.fair.org/err/990830.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reading Baker's critiques is also a wonderful exercise in learning to do media criticism. You can subscribe to a mailing list of these reviews, as well. PS--on the item above (990830.html), scroll down and check out the item "Solidarity and the Price of Apricots." It says that a new regulation in France requires retail sellers of produce to display the price given to the farmers of that produce; it was in the 8/21/99 /NYT/. peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you knew what life was worth, you would look for yours on earth. And now you see the light--you stand up for your rights. --Bob Marley, Peter Tosh To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 09:37:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11277 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05918 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:44:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA05807 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:44:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990907124222.23591.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 05:42:22 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:42:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: India and Monsters To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2565 A glimpse into what is happening in India with respect to Monsanto... >Press release from "Monsanto Quit India" Campaign - 1 Sept 1999 - > >MNC's invasion of Indian Agriculture - The Real Swadeshi - Videshi issue >in Bellary > >Monsanto, the world's largest biotech company has invaded India. > >It now owns and controls Cargill seeds, MAHYCO, Rallis, EID Parry. The >main Cargill seed plant, now owned by Monsanto is in Bellary. This plant >was pulled down by angry farmers in 1992 because of the high rates of seed >failure. > >Monsanto has taken over the biotech lab of our premier research institute, >the Indian Institute of Science in Bangalore. Monsanto is also robbing all >our Universities of our scientists. This is intellectual hijack and >intellectual theft. > >Monsanto has also engaged in Biopiracy by patenting our cotton, mustard, >neem and soyabean. Through patents on seeds it is trying to establish a >totalitarian control over agriculture. > >Monsanto's undertook illegal and hazardous trials of genetically engineered >Bt. cotton. It has continued its trials in spite of the Supreme Court case. >Scientific evidence proves that toxic Bt plants kill beneficial species >such as butterflies, bees and beetles. Bt crops also accelerate evolution >of resistance in pests and the evolution of 'super pests'. This will lead >to more debts and more suicides and will wipe out both our biodiversity and >our farmers. > >Thousands of farmers have already committed suicide because of huge debts >linked to costly seeds and costly pesticides, herbicides and increasing >seed failures. Pests are becoming resistant to pesticides leading to higher >debts and higher crop failure. Monsanto is also trying to import gene guns >and virulent genetically engineered plasmids for making and selling >Terminator seeds, and other ecologically hazardous products. This is a gene >war on our farms, against all species. > >Monsanto is also trying to control drinking water and convert the growing >water >scarcity into limitless profits. > >Seed famine and water famines are the most severe threats the majority of >Indians are facing today. > >However, no political party and no politician are addressing these survival >issues faced by Indian people. > >Because Monsanto poses a severe threat to Indian agriculture and Indian >farmers, Indian citizens have been telling Monsanto to quit India, since >Quit India day, Aug 9th 1998. > >We repeat this call during the Indian general election 1999 from Bellary, >which >is a citadel of corporate invasion into Indian agriculture. Bellary >symbolizes the combined imperialist power of Cargill, the world's largest >grain trader and Monsanto, the world's largest seed monopoly. > >This is the real Vidheshi invasion and threat to India. > >Ignoring the real economic threat to the survival of the Indian people, the >Congress and BJP have reduced the Bellary Election to a "foreigner - >native" issue focussing only on individual personalities in the election >contest between the Congress President, Italian born Sonia Gandhi and BJP >representative, Sushma Swaraj. > >The Bija Satyagraha Movement started by 2500 groups around the country, >represented in Bellary by Navdanya and the Karnataka Krishak Samaj wants to >draw attention on the real Videshi invasion by Monsanto & Cargill. The Bija >Satyagraha Movement is building the Swadeshi alternative of keeping the >seed in >our hands and keeping it free of patents, genetic engineering & MNC's control. > >We also want to draw attention to fact that both the BJP and Congress have >colluded with foreign MNC's. They have allowed Monsanto and Cargill to >enter Indian agriculture and rob us of our fundamental security - our food >security. > >Both BJP and Congress joined hands to change Indian patent laws and allow >Bio-pirates like Monsanto to have monopoly markets through patents for >products derived from our neem, cotton and mustard etc. > >Gandhi defined Swadeshi as economic democracy. Our politicians are >corrupting the content of this powerful word. > >The citizens of India will save "Swadeshi' from being trivialized into a >call for xenophobia and narrow nationalism. Navdanya and Karnataka Krishak >Samaj will address a press conference and march to the Cargill and Monsanto >Seed factory on 2nd September 1999. > >Our Swadeshi call from Bellary is: > >1. "Monsanto Quit India" >2. "Monsanto Stop the Hijack of Indian Seed and Water" >3. "No Patents on Life" - "No Patents on Seeds" > >Our Swadeshi test for every candidate and Political Party is > >1. The next Government must scrap the new Patent Act 1999 and Stop the >implementation of TRIPS. It must also takes step to revise and reform TRIPs >by supporting the African Proposal to WTO. >2. The next elected government must stop the genetically engineering trials >that threaten our farmers, our biodiversity and our food security. >3. The government must stop the import of the Gene Guns and genetically >engineered plasmids by Monsanto. > >Bija Satyagraha For Further Information please contact: >Navdanya Karnataka Krishak Samaj A * 60, Hauz Khas, New Delhi * 110 016 >Bellary Tel: 011-6968 077, 6853 772, Fax: 011- 6856 795 Email: >vshiva@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in > ---------------- Northeast Resistance Against Genetic Engineering http://www.bckweb.com/nerage __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 10:34:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12519 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04981 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:45:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04948 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:47:08 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.143] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A6BD86DC0234; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 08:44:29 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:41:46 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Economic Reporting Review Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2566 On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:39:57 -0700, Misha wrote: >It spots the errors of fact or interpretative biases/assumptions in >these two newspapers' reporting on economic issues. Do you think it can help me understand why politicians on both sides of the aisle and at both ends of Pennsylvania avenue have be squabbling over what to do with the Budget Surplus --- and newspapers across the land reporting on 99 Billion dollars to distribute --- while apparently unnoticed, the US National Debt has increased by an average of $416 million per day, every single day since 1 October 1998 ?? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 11:08:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13040 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27353 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:28:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27261 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:32:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "Helen Husher (E-mail)" Subject: Northeast SARE Grant Applications Available on the Web Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:32:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2567 Northeast SARE Grant Applications Available on the Web Applications for Farmer Grants, Professional Development Grants, and Research and Education Grants are now available on the World Wide Web--potential applicants can go to http://www.uvm.edu/~nesare and follow the "Grants and Application Information" link. The applications can be downloaded by clicking on the highlighted text that follows the description of each type of grant. Deadlines for the 2000 grants are as follows: December 6: postmark deadline for Farmer Grant applications January 20: deadline for receipt of Research and Education Grant applications January 27: deadline for receipt of Professional Development Grant applications Applications can also be requested by calling 802/656-0471. You can also call this number if you have questions about the application process or the application itself. The mailing address for Northeast SARE is 10 Hills Building, University of Vermont, Burlington, VT 05405-0082. ************************************* Helen Husher Writer/Editor Northeast Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) Program Hills Building -- Carrigan Drive University of Vermont Burlington, VT 05405-0082 Phone: 802-656-0554 Fax: 802-656-4656 ************************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 12:12:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14457 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29738 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:46:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29715 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04824; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003001bef947$fd266a20$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: "SANET-mg" , "kathryn marsh" Subject: Re: Sweden and The Natural Step Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:44:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2568 To Kathryn and Sanet: It is probably not fair to have you form your opinions on The Natural Step on the basis of my faulty memory. To get it straight from the source, go to the website: http://www.naturalstep.org/direct/index.html Kim -----Original Message----- From: kathryn marsh To: kstoner@caes.state.ct.us Date: Sunday, September 05, 1999 3:30 AM Subject: Sweden >Kim > >I don't remember the original posting - so you have any details on where I >can find more information on The Natural Step > >kathryn > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 12:30:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14826 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:48:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00152 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:48:39 -0400 (EDT) From: hawiaa@access.digex.net Received: from LOCALNAME (pool-209-138-47-216.bltm.grid.net [209.138.47.216]) by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA23179 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.16.19990907115344.2cc72142@pop.iamdigex.net> X-Sender: 10005843@pop.iamdigex.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (16) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:53:44 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Alternative Agric News Sept 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2569 September 1999 Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, #117 Greenbelt, MD 20770 (301) 441-8777 E-mail: hawiaa@access.digex.net Web: http://www.hawiaa.org * * * If You Are Interested in Sustainable Agriculture... In addition to this monthly newsletter, the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture publishes the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, a quarterly, peer-reviewed journal of research on alternative agriculture. It is a scientific forum for disseminating technical, economic, and social research findings about the character and requirements of alternative agriculture systems. The factors, challenges, and obstacles in organic farmers' decision-making are featured in the new issue (Volume 14, No. 1). Other articles cover evaluation of farmers' perceptions of soil quality indicators, farmers' attitudes towards sustainable agriculture issues and environmental quality in a selected area of Bangladesh, rice and wheat production in Pakistan with effective microorganisms, a profile of an organic farm in Sweden, and commentary on whether precision agriculture is sustainable. Subscriptions to AJAA are $44 for libraries, $24 for individuals, and $12 for students; contact the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Rd., #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; e-mail hawiaa@access.digex.net. Table of Contents: Gene-Altered Food is "New Trade Threat for U.S. Farmers," p. 1 EPA Eliminates and Reduces Uses of Two Pesticides, p. 2 Berkeley Schools to Offer Organic Food to Students, p. 2 Comment Period Opens for Factory Farm Proposal, p. 3 Positions, p. 3 Bugs May Become Resistant to BT Cotton Faster Than Expected, p. 3 U.S. Policy Has Led to "Dearth of Studies" on Engineered Foods, p. 4 British Farmers Feel the Heat for Planting "GM" Crops, p. 4 Resources, p. 5 Upcoming Events, p. 5 GENE-ALTERED FOOD IS "NEW TRADE THREAT FOR U.S. FARMERS" As the fall harvest nears, more of the international buyers American farmers depend on are saying they don't want genetically engineered corn and soybeans, according to a front-page article in The New York Times (August 29, 1999). "Consumers and food companies in a growing number of countries are shunning the new crops created by genetic engineers," the story said. "Trade officials in the United States have been battling the European Union, which has stopped buying all American corn. But this summer, the Clinton Administration's efforts have grown increasingly urgent, in an attempt to contain the aversion to these crops that is leaping from continent to continent." According to Peter Scher, who directs the agricultural negotiations for the U.S. Trade Representatives Office, "This is a very significant trade threat." Farmers have been told that seven varieties of gene-altered corn, representing about 5 percent of the expected harvest, will be rejected by corn exporters, the article said. Local grain elevator operators have begun asking farmers to separate some types of gene-altered corn from ordinary corn to appease international buyers. "Next year's harvest looms as more troublesome, with public sentiment changing, foreign markets shrinking and the agriculture industry struggling to adjust," according to the article. "The American Corn Growers Association, which represents mostly family farms, told its members last week that they should consider planting only conventional seeds next spring, unless a host of questions can be answered, including whether the United States will be able to export the genetically altered corn." EPA ELIMINATES AND REDUCES USES OF TWO PESTICIDES The EPA last month announced plans to eliminate specific uses of methyl parathion, and eliminate some uses of and significantly lower allowable residues for azinphos methyl, two organophosphate pesticides. It also announced an 18-month schedule for completing its review of all 39 organophosphates. Under the Food Quality Protection Act, the EPA said it would next year eliminate the continued use of methyl parathion on apples, peaches, pears, grapes, nectarines, cherries, plums, carrots, certain peas, certain beans, turnips, and tomatoes. Approximately 4.2 million pounds of the pesticide were applied last year, but 75 percent of that was applied to cotton, corn, and wheat, which are not affected by the new regulations. The EPA will reduce application rates and required practices for azinphos methyl that will result in the significant reduction of allowable residues on apples, pears, and peaches. It will be banned on sugar cane and on cotton east of the Mississippi River. USDA Deputy Secretary Richard Rominger participated in the EPA briefing about the regulatory actions. "It's clear that agriculture must do more than react chemical-by-chemical, waiting until cumulative pesticide risks are calculated," he said. "To respond to this challenge, the Department is working commodity-by-commodity and region-by-region to develop the best strategies for moving toward pest management practices that have the least risk." Many organophosphates were used as a replacement for DDT after its ban in 1972. According to The Washington Post (August 3, 1999), "Because of questions about organophosphates' possible toxicity to humans, particularly to the developing nervous systems of infants and children, critics have for years been calling for tougher restrictions or outright bans on the use of the pesticides." More information is available on the Internet at www.epa.gov/pesticides. BERKELEY SCHOOLS TO OFFER ORGANIC FOOD TO STUDENTS The Berkeley Board of Education voted last month to become the first school system in the country to offer a full menu of organic food to its students. It will serve organic food in main dishes and after-school snacks, and will remove irradiated and genetically altered foods from the menu, according to the Associated Press. School officials hope eventually to have an all-natural menu, including milk from cows that have not been injected with the bovine growth hormone (BGH). In developing the plan, School Superintendent Jack McLaughlin said he wanted to improve both school lunches and student health. "The new menu is intended to emphasize healthy eating habits and teach students where their food comes from," the AP story said. Under the new policy, schools will have gardens and will incorporate eating, gardening, and nutrition into the curriculum. Every school will have its own organic vegetable garden tended by the students to teach them about agriculture and ecology, and to provide up to 25 percent of the organic produce needed. What the district can't grow, it will buy from local organic farmers. "School officials believe that adding organic items should not cost too much more than buying the old standbys," according to The San Francisco Chronicle. The organic foods will be phased in with the traditional cafeteria choices as grant money comes in to pay organic farmers. The USDA provided grant funds to the Center for Ecoliteracy, a non-profit organization, to help start the gardens and establish a food policy for the Berkeley school district. COMMENT PERIOD OPENS FOR FACTORY FARM PROPOSAL The EPA last month released proposed guidelines for Clean Water Act permitting for concentrated animal feeding operations, and opened a public comment period which will last until the beginning of October. The guidelines provide information on which facilities need to apply, co-permitting of corporate entities, land application of manure, and public notice, monitoring, and reporting requirements. Information on the guidelines and public comment period is available on the Internet at www.epa.gov/owm. POSITIONS Washington State University seeks a dryland farming specialist for integrated, sustainable systems; Ph.D. required; for more information, contact Dr. Edward B. Adams, Agriculture & Natural Resources Program Leader, (509) 358-7960; e-mail adamse@wsu.edu. Berea College Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources seeks an agricultural educator in agricultural economics, and an agricultural educator in animal science; for either position, send letter, C.V., transcripts, and three letters of recommendation to Mike Panciera, Acting Chair, Department of Agriculture and Natural Resources, CPO 2356, Berea College, Berea, KY 40404. North Carolina State University is offering a graduate assistantship in its Department of Plant Pathology; contact Dr. Mark Boudreau, Department of Environmental Studies, Warren Wilson College, Asheville, NC 28815; (828) 298-3325 ext. 335; e-mail markb@warren-wilson.edu. University of Wisconsin-Madison Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems seeks a Communications Manager; contact Dr. Rick Klemme, Director, CIAS, 1450 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706; (608) 262-5201; e-mail klemme@aae.wisc.edu. BUGS MAY BECOME RESISTANT TO BT COTTON FASTER THAN EXPECTED University of Arizona scientists have written in Nature that some insects may be able to develop resistance to genetically modified "bug-proof" cotton plants more quickly than expected, according to an article in The Wall Street Journal (August 5, 1999). "The peer-reviewed laboratory study, which is being published in today's issue of the science magazine Nature, signals that some genetically modified plants might become obsolete sooner than their inventors had planned," the article said. Farmers this year are planting 3.5 million acres of bug-resistant cotton, which contains a gene transplanted from Bacillus thuringiensis, or Bt. "The potential problem exposed by the University of Arizona study is that the mating cycle of its Bt-resistant bugs was out of synch with that of regular pink bollworms," according to the article. "That suggests any Bt-resistant bugs that develop in the wild might only be able to mate with each other, which could trigger a population explosion of their kind." U.S. POLICY HAS LED TO "DEARTH OF STUDIES" ON ENGINEERED FOODS A "dearth of studies" that "look directly for any harm from an engineered food or crop" is "the legacy of a U.S. policy that considers gene-altered plants and food to be fundamentally the same as conventional ones, a policy some Americans are starting to question," according to an article in The Washington Post (August 15, 1999). "It is also the legacy of the sheer scientific difficulty of conducting the kinds of tests that might assure people that engineered crops and food are safe." With new evidence that genetically altered crops may be "less environmentally benign than biotech companies had predicted," the article said, "some Americans are reconsidering the technology's overall safety." But the Food and Drug Administration is five years behind in developing guidelines for safety testing, and there are no formal guidelines for such testing in place, according to the article. BRITISH FARMERS FEEL THE HEAT FOR PLANTING "GM" CROPS Four British farmers who are taking part in government-run field trials of genetically modified, or what Europeans call "GM," seed crops "have been targeted by protesters who have already invaded other such plantings, trampling and ripping up roots in fields of oil seed rape and corn," according to an article in The New York Times (August 23, 1999). "The protesters' acts of destruction, while illegal and extreme, are an expression of the widespread opposition to the introduction of genetically modified crops in Europe and particularly in Britain." One of the farmers argues that only field tests can provide answers to people's concerns, but 79 percent of the British public think that such tests should be stopped. RESOURCES "Marketing Sustainably Produced Foods" is available from Food Choices, 30 West Mifflin St., #401, Madison, WI 53703; (608) 258-4396. "Urbanization of Rural Landscapes," a syllabus and teaching materials, is $10 from Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, University of Nebraska, PO Box 830949, Lincoln, NE 68583; (402) 472-2056; on the Internet at ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas/reports.htm. "Organic Dairy Farming" is $8 from Community Conservation Consultants, Rt. 1 Box 96, Gays Mills, WI 54631; (608) 735-4717; e-mail ccc@mwt.net. "IPM Field Corn Pocket Guide" is $7 plus $3.75 shipping/handling from Natural Resource, Agriculture, and Engineering Service, Cooperative Extension, 152 Riley-Robb Hall, Ithaca, NY 14853; (607) 255-7654; e-mail nraes@cornell.edu. "Biological Control: A Guide to Natural Enemies in North America" is available on the Internet at www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/, or from C.R. Weeden, Jordan Hall, Cornell University, NYSAES, Geneva, NY 14456-0462; (315) 787-2253; e-mail crw7@cornell.edu. UPCOMING EVENTS September 25, Country Living Field Day will be held in Carroll County, OH; contact Ohio State University Extension, (330) 627-4310. September 28, Chesapeake Bay Day will be held at the USDAs Agricultural Research Center, Beltsville, MD; contact Janet Gates, USDA, (301) 504-7338. October 1-2, "Traditional Nutrition and Restorative Agriculture," the fourth Annual Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Conference, will be held in Charles Town, WV; contact conference planners, (304) 876-2373. October 8-10, "Healing Our Culture Through Biodynamic Agriculture" will be held in Spring Valley, NY; contact Biodynamic Association, PO Box 29135, San Francisco, CA 94129. October 10-15 and October 17-22, "Herbicide Action" will be held at Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN; contact Kathy Hyman, Division of Conferences, Purdue University, 1586 Stewart Center, Rm. 116, West Lafayette, IN 47907-1586; 1-800-359-2968, ext. 92H, or (765) 494-2758; e-mail kfhyman@conf.purdue.edu. October 12-15, National Small Farm Conference will be held in St. Louis, MO; contact Debi Kelly, Missouri Alternatives Center, University of Missouri; (573) 882-1905; e-mail kellyd@umsystem.edu; or Dyremple Marsh, Lincoln University, Jefferson City, MO; (573) 681- 5547; e-mail marshd@lincolnu.edu. October 14-17, Community Food Security Coalition's Annual Meeting will be held in Chicago, IL; contact Andy Fisher, CFS Coalition, PO Box 209, Venice, CA 90294; (310) 822-5410; e-mail asfisher@aol.com; on the Internet at www.foodsecurity.org. October 15 is the deadline for abstracts for the January 29-February 2, 2000, meeting of the Southern Rural Sociological Association; contact Dr. Donald McDowell, SRSA Program Chair, North Carolina A&T State University, C.H. Moor, A26, Greensboro, NC 27411; (336) 334-7054; e-mail mcdowedr@ncat.edu. October 15 is the deadline for abstracts for the May 16-18, 2000, National Extension Natural Resources Conference; contact Larry Biles, National Program Leader, Forest Management, USDA/CSREES/NRE; (202) 401-4926; e-mail lbiles@reeusda.gov. October 20-23, "Sustaining Agriculture in the 21st Century: Thinking Outside the Box," the fourth biennial meeting of the International Farming Systems Association, will be held in Guelph, Ontario, Canada; information is available on the Internet at www.oac.uoguelph.ca/FSR/. October 20-24, Natural Products Expo East will be held in Baltimore, MD; contact Expo, PO Box 671, Boulder, CO 80306; (303) 998-9118. October 25-27, "Utilizing Organics and Recyclables--Waste Management for the Millennium" will be held in Cedar Rapids, IA; contact BioCycle magazine, 1-800-661-4905. October 26-28, "Exploring Opportunities for Carbon Sequestration" will be held in Missoula, MT; contact Bitter Root RC&D, 1709 North First St., Hamilton, MT 59840; (406) 363-5450. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 12:51:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15179 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13660 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:18:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13643 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:21:38 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Avery on global warming; GE tofu; French farmers Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:21:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA13646 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2570 SANet: I was struck by three (unrelated--it all seems related!) letters to the editor of the Washington Post on 8/28/99: Dennis Avery tells us we have nothing to fear from global warming; a tofu company defends its product that has only 0.1 percent GMO materials; and the third addresses hormones, tariffs and the use of pesticides by French farmers. All three letters are pasted below, for your information: Climate, Castles, Cathedrals Saturday, August 28, 1999; Page A18 What if the eco-activists are right and global warming is heading our way, as David Ignatius asks ["Naysay Now, Pay Later"? op-ed, Aug.18]. Luckily, we can look at the prospect of warming through the historical record, not an uncertain computer model. The answer is that we'd return to the finest weather in recorded history, the Medieval Climate Optimum (950-1300 A.D.). The Climate Optimum featured temperatures about 3 degrees Fahrenheit higher than we have now. That's almost exactly what the global climate models are predicting (though we've had no significant warming since 1940). Food production surged during the optimum because of milder winters and longer growing seasons. All of the famous cathedrals and castles in Europe were built during that period because people had time to spare from working in the fields. Storms were fewer and milder. The polar ice caps did not melt. There was no wave of wildlife species extinction. DENNIS T. AVERY Swoope, Va. Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company Our Wholesome Tofu Saturday, August 28, 1999; Page A18 I write in response to Rick Weiss's two "Biotech" news stories that ran on Aug. 15, one on the front page. Our product, Mori-Nu Tofu, was shown in a close-up photograph captioned "This tofu consumer food from California, for sale in markets in this region, contains engineered soybean products." While I am sure The Post had no malicious intent, the caption's wording apparently has led many readers to believe that our product is loaded with genetically altered ingredients because, unfortunately, we have had several phone calls from concerned consumers and stores. Our company is very concerned with food safety and packages our tofu aseptically, which increases nutrient retention and flavor while ensuring safety. For the record, a recent test conducted by a third-party testing lab shows our product to contain only 0.1 percent of genetically modified material. ARTHUR Z. MIO Director of Sales and Marketing Morinaga Nutritional Foods, Inc. Torrance, Calif. Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company Enough to Gag On Saturday, August 28, 1999; Page A18 The French farmers protesting American hormones in imported beef are probably only sorry they didn't think of it first ["Something's Rotten in Roquefort: A New U.S. Tariff," front page, Aug. 21]. I visit the French countryside often, and when I hear them speak disingenuously of their produits de qualite I can only gag on the enormous amounts of fertilizer, insecticide, herbicide and you-name-it-cide I see them spreading everywhere, polluting the groundwater and endangering public health throughout its beautiful country. This is the same government that has chosen to put at risk the entire continent by its obsessive attachment to nuclear power. I offer my congratulations to the American officials for their exquisitely chosen targets in French agriculture. The protests in Roquefort, Dijon and foie-gras land are confirmation of the effectiveness of the message. RICHARD JOHNSTON New York Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 13:59:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16488 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17578 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:25:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17569 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:28:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'hogan.1@osu.edu'" Subject: Sixth Annual Country Living Field Day Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:28:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2571 For a field day flyer which includes a map, please send your mailing address to: hogan.1@osu.edu, or Mike Hogan, OSU Extension, Courthouse, 119 Public Square, Carrollton, OH 44615-1498. For more information call 330-627-4310. The Sixth Annual Country Living Field Day will be held Saturday, September 25, 1999 from 10 am to 5 pm in Augusta, Ohio, in the foothills of the Appalachians in Eastern Ohio. Joel Salatin will be the capstone speaker for this event which will feature workshops, short seminars, demonstrations, farm tours, and exhibits on dozens of alternative, sustainable, and small-scale agriculture and natural resources topics. Topics Include: organic farming, growing for restaurants, freshwater fish farming, ginseng and goldenseal, mushrooms, CSA, forest management, growing berries, extending the grazing season, solar energy, beekeeping, managed grazing, beef cattle marketing, goats, pasture raised poultry, grape production, growing pumpkins and gourds, pasture-raised pork, working dogs, farming the internet and dozens more! Five two-hour workshops will be held as follows: Beef Cattle Marketing at 11:30 am, Getting Started in farming at 11:30 am, Getting started in Beekeeping at 1:30 p.m., Managing Your Woodlot at 2:00 p.m., and Management Intensive Grazing at 2:30 p.m. There will also be a large display of rare heritage breed livestock and a timber frame construction demonstration going on throughout the day. An extensive children's program is also planned including a Kids Safety Roundup and a Children's Activity Area. Youth who complete the Kids Safety Roundup will receive a free t-shirt and water bottle, and all participating families will receive a free family first aid kit. The Children's Activity Area will feature agricultural crafts and activities. All activities at the Country Living Field Day are free and registration is not required. The field day is sponsored by Ohio State University Extension and the Small Scale Agriculture Committee. For a field day flyer which includes a map, please send your mailing address to: hogan.1@osu.edu, or Mike Hogan, OSU Extension, Courthouse, 119 Public Square, Carrollton, OH 44615-1498. For more information call 330-627-4310. ************************************* * Mike Hogan * * Extension Agent * * and Co-Coordinator * * Sustainable Agriculture Team * * Ohio State University Extension * * Courthouse, 119 Public Square * * Carrollton, OH 44615-1498 * * hogan.1@osu.edu * * 330-627-4310 office * * 330-627-7683 home * * 740-381-0975 mobile * * 330-627-6656 FAX * ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 14:00:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16501 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18049 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18043 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15784 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03685 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:26:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:26:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Water Recycling Technology Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2572 Could followups be made to this post with any additional links, contacts and bibliographic or database references folks may have? - Natural Technology Systems http://surf.to/NaturalTechnology email: mlomas@tinet.ie Water Recycling http://waterrecycling.com/ Water Recycling Reference Databases on the World Wide Web http://waterrecycling.com/referenc.htm (there's an incredible amount of information here) And more from their links page: - Ocean Arks International http://www.mbl.edu/html/OA/mission.html Living Machine at the Findhorn Foundation http://www.gaia.org/findhorn/ecovil/ecolm.html Wetland Wastewater Treatment Plant, Arcata, CA http://www.humnat.org/wastwet.htm The SWAMP project http://www.computan.on.ca/~prodigal/ftgeo.htm Stensund Folk College in Trosa, south of Stockholm, Sweden http://www.algonet.se/~stensund/sec2.htm Advanced Integrated Pond (AIP) systems, St Helena, California http://www.eren.doe.gov/cities_counties To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 14:00:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16509 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10785 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10762 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15628 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03536 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:17:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:17:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Alternative Agric News Sept 1999 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19990907115344.2cc72142@pop.iamdigex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2573 On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 hawiaa@access.digex.net wrote: > Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:53:44 > From: hawiaa@access.digex.net > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Alternative Agric News Sept 1999 I'm glad to see AA News being posted to sanet again; I hope it will continue. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 14:18:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16839 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17561 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17550 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15744 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA03645 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:24:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Sweden and The Natural Step In-Reply-To: <003001bef947$fd266a20$1568f6cd@kim> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2574 On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Kimberly Stoner wrote: > To Kathryn and Sanet: > It is probably not fair to have you form your opinions on The Natural Step > on the basis of my faulty memory. To get it straight from the source, go to > the website: > http://www.naturalstep.org/direct/index.html Here's a little feedback from the permaculture list: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 07:15:12 -0700 From: Toby Hemenway To: permaculture Subject: Re: The Natural Step They have a web site at http://www.naturalstep.org/direct/index.html; I saw a talk about the program by Paul Hawken at The Bioneers Conference; he's active with them. There are informal contacts between some PC and Natural Step people, but I don't know of formal links. They've done a good job of moving into the "suit-wearing" niche for the sustainability crowd, working with a number of large corporations and foundations, and grounding their message in respectability by getting big-name scientists to endorse them. Seems to me they're doing a very good thing. <...snip..> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 14:20:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16894 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23467 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:45:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23444 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07684; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:44:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Andy Clark" , Subject: RE: French farmers Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:41:19 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2575 The French farmers I have met who produce milk for Roquefort use very little of the chemicals described in Andy's pass-along post from the Post. THese are guys who milk sheep up in the mountains. And by the way, in response to a post on this list and a couple of others, 69 people have pledged a total of $4,985 to support Jose Bove and his colleagues. The news has been all over Europe. The following is a brief description of impacts in France. Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To day, Jose Bove (french farmer from the Confederation farmer movement in french) was liberated. He was in jail the 16 august. He had participated with 400 people to the dimanteling a Mac donald restaurant in Millau, little sity in the south of France. It was a reaction against the sub taxation of french and european products by USA, after the prohibition of meat with hormons by European Union. The justice had asked 100 000 USD for guarantee for the 5 farmers who were in jail. Four farmers were Free. Jose after few days had refused to pay the guarantee (or the farm movement). It had created a movement of solidarity in france and abroad. 60 farmers, activists, intelectuals from USA had sent money very rapidly. The confederation had received money from a lot of individuals people. All the newspapers, TV, radios had talken about the problem of GMO, meat with hormons. Jacques Chirac, president of France had said that France will not accept GMO and Meat with hormons. A lot of action had been realized in front and inside mac donald restaurants. There is a debate of the nature of food, with this action. It had created very good condition for the WTO mobilization and against GMO. We think that it would be very interesting to organize an international day "for the right of the people to feed themslf and on the right to choose ttheir food" the 16 TH october (during the mobilization week related to WTO . 12 -18 october) . The 16 th october is in the same time the world food day (FAO). What do you think of this idea ? Cordially Pierre VUARIN To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 15:14:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17852 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19098 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:43:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19092 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:43:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01256 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id OAA22029; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D55D64.62051C4E@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:45:56 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roberto Verzola , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: organic corn prices References: <199909021652.AAA00778@phil.gn.apc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2576 Roberto Verzola wrote: > I am interested in knowing the average price of organic corn, compared > to conventional corn, and also to genetically-engineered Bt corn in > the U.S. (and elsewhere). I need the figures for the public debates we > are now engaged in regarding the field-testing of Bt corn in the > Philippines. I would appreciate any info (or URL) in this regard. > > Second question: some corn farmers have told us that they have a very > simple way of dealing with the corn borer: they detassle the corn > plants. They insist that this controls the corn borer infestation. I > just want to know from this list if anyone knows from experience (or > >from theory) that this approach will work. If it does, as the farmers > I talked to insist, then there really is no reason to go through all > that trouble to develop Bt corn, is there? > > Thank you all. Below is Table 3 from a report of on-farm research that was posted on the web a year or so ago (by Andy Clark).. It shows organic corn going for $4.05 a bushel wit conventional corn going for $2.70 /bu. Also gives net profit and gross costs. I'm also attaching the Editor's note. Let me know if you need anything else. . .Russ (Editors' note: Results of PFI 1997 onfarm research are appearing in The Practical Farmer over the course of this year. We hope this will give readers a chance to absorb these cooperator reports. In this issue we report on some research on row spacing and with tillage and weed management. In 1997, we learned more about bugs in strip intercropping, including effects of Bt corn and migrating corn rootworm larvae. And Jeff Klinge and Deb Tidwell provide crop production budgets for organic and conventionally grown corn.) Table 3. Corn production budgets, organic and conventional, Klinge farm. Item Organic (1) Conventional (2) PreHarvest Machinery $27.50 $20.25 Seed (Ceiba 3475) 29,000 plants/acre $31.90 $31.90 Nitrogen (no P or K) 60 lbs $0.00 $14.40 Herbicide 2.4 qt. Harness Extra, .78 oz Permit, additives $0.00 $36.13 Insecticide 8 lbs Aztec $0.00 $17.12 Crop Insurance $5.00 $5.00 Interest 9.5% for 8 months $4.08 $7.90 PreHarvest Total $68.48 $132.70 Harvest Machinery Combine $22.00 $22.00 Haul Grain $4.00 $4.00 Dry Grain ($0.15/bu) $19.20 $21.75 Harvest Total $45.20 $47.25 Labor $8.00/hr $48.00 $32.00 Land cash rent equivalent $150.00 $150.00 Total Cost per Acre $311.68 $362.45 Crop Yield (bu/acre) 128 145 Cost per Bushel $2.44 $2.50 Sale Price (per bu) $4.05 $2.70 Gross Income per Acre $518.40 $391.50 Net Profit per Acre $206.72 $29.05 (1) Organic: tandem disk 2x, chisel plow, harrow, plant, hoe 2x, cultivate 3x. (2) Conventional: tandem disk 2x, chisel plow, harrow, plant, hoe 1x, cultivate 1x. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 16:37:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19529 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08009 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:12:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07942 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:15:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FSNET: Poison risk is greater from organic foods, says scientist Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:15:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2577 Only one article is pasted below--from FSNET. Sorry for the formatting--I didn't have time to fix it. Andy Clark > FSNET SEPTEMBER 7, 1999 > > E. coli source discovered, 112 ill > E. coli, toxigenic, waterborne - USA (Washington) (02) > Poison risk is greater from organic foods, says scientist > EU food agency wins backing in Iberia > EU likely to OK Belgian loans to dioxin-affected cos > Undiagnosed illness, school - USA (Connecticut) > ********** > FSnet is produced by researchers at the Agri-Food Risk Management and > Communications Project at the University of Guelph, is edited > by Douglas > Powell (dpowell@uoguelph.ca), Sarah Grant > (segrant@uoguelph.ca), and is > supported by the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and > Rural Affairs, > Health Canada, the U.S. National Pork Producers, the U.S. > National Food > Processors Association, Pfizer Animal Health Group, Dairy Farmers of > Canada, AGCare (Agricultural Groups Concerned About Resources and the > Environment), Monsanto Canada, Pioneer Hi-Bred Limited > (Canada), Canadian > Animal Health Institute, Novartis Crop Protection Canada, > Dairy Farmers of > Ontario, Meat & Livestock Australia, Canadian On-Farm Food > Safety Program, > Canadian Pork Council, the U.S. National Cattlemen's Beef Association, > Maple Leaf Meats/Poultry, Caravelle Foods, CKE Restaurants Inc., the > Rutgers University Food Safety Extension Program, Ontario Farm Animal > Council, Fleishman-Hillard Canada, Ag-West Biotech, Food > Safety Initiative > at New England Medical Center, J.M. Schneider, Capital > Health, Parmalat > Food, the Ontario Soybean Growers Marketing Board, the Canadian > Cattlemen's Association, Food Industry Environmental Network, Canadian > Poultry and Egg Processors, Chicken Farmers of Canada, MDS Nordion, > American Meat Institute, International Food Focus, and the > Agricultural > Adaptation Council (CanAdapt Program). > > archived at: > http://www.extension.iastate.edu/files/fscurrent/ > ********** > > POISON RISK IS GREATER FROM ORGANIC FOODS, SAYS SCIENTIST > Sept. 6/99 > Sunday Times > Stephen Bevan and Lois Jones > Organic food is 30 times more likely to poison you than > conventional food, > according to a leading scientist and top government adviser. > Professor Alan Gray, acting chairman of the Advisory > Committee on Releases > to the Environment, which advises the government on the safety of > genetically modified (GM) crops and other "novel" organisms, > said it was a > "myth" that organic food was safer. > "You are 30 times more likely to poison yourself with organic produce > because it allows Bt [the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis] to spread > directly. There's this myth about it being natural," he said. > Sprays containing Bt have been used for a decade by farmers to control > caterpillars. When ingested, the bacterium produces endotoxins which > attack > the walls of the insects' guts. In mammals, they can cause death from > septic shock. > It is one of a number of biological agents permitted by > organic certifying > bodies such as the Soil Association, which insists it is safe > when used > properly. Ironically the production of Bt toxin is one of the > key features > of many GM crops. > "Because it's derived from the soil it's deemed to be natural > and organic > farmers are therefore allowed to spray it," said Gray. "But > Bt affects the > health of people who work with it due to the ingestion of > endotoxins." He > was also concerned about the presence of harmful bacteria > such as E-coli > (a > cause of food poisoning) in manures used by organic farmers. > "By using manures instead of fertilisers you're recycling > E-coli from the > guts of cattle and other animals," said Gray. "This is the > way the world > was before we had organic fertilisers. I'm not against organic food. > There's this sense that it's safe, but in fact the risk is > greater than > from eating some generic foods." > His comments were immediately attacked as misconceived by the Soil > Association, which certifies the majority of organic > producers. "People > like Professor Gray ought to know better," said Richard Young, the > association's agricultural policy adviser. "We've drawn up > standards for > 30 > years to prevent these problems. Many diseases such as E-coli > are a result > of intensive farming systems." > Patrick Holden, director of the Soil Association, said he > suspected Gray's > comments were based on misinformation put about by the agrichemicals > industry. "Our view is that biological toxins are fine so > long as we can > show they are not dangerous and are used in a targeted way. > If there is > new > evidence which challenges that we would revisit the inclusion > of Bt on the > permitted list." > Holden admitted that manure from conventional farms could > contain E-coli > or salmonella but said strict rules about how it was used made it > extremely > unlikely that it could contaminate any organic products. > Radio 4 presenter John Humphrys, a keen fan of organic food, > said: "I'm > not > an expert but my reaction is that this is nonsense. I've been eating > organic food for 20 years and I haven't suffered from it." > The comments by Gray, who works at the Institute of > Terrestrial Ecology's > Furzebrook research station in Dorset and is vice-president > of the British > Ecological Society, threaten to upset the rapidly growing and > lucrative > organic market. Supermarkets have doubled their sales of > organic products > in the past year. In some sectors, such as baby food, organic products > represent as much as 40% of the market despite prices which > can be as much > as 50% higher. > Much of the demand is driven by people who are looking for safer, > healthier > food, as well as less intensive farming methods which are said to be > better > for the environment and for animal welfare. Food certified by the Soil > Association must be produced without the use of chemical fertilisers, > herbicides or pesticides. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 17:10:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20347 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24708 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:41:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24626 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04705 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crl.crl.com (crl.com [165.113.1.12]) by mail.crl.com (8.8.8/) via SMTP id NAA14682 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:40:06 -0700 (PDT) env-from (toma@crl.com) Received: by crl.crl.com id AA03143 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu); Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:33:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:33:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Armstrong To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: guinea fowl In-Reply-To: <19990906.160700.3534.3.eweigel@juno.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2578 I am interested in getting some guinea fowl see if they would help control ticks. We are invaded by two different kinds of ticks at two seasons of the year. I have found chickens helpfull, but we can't let them out much because of coyotes. I have heard that guineas are usefull for this because they feed mostly on insects. Does anyone have any knowledge on guineas? Tom Armstrong toma@crl.com Sequera Ranch s.1892 San Gregorio, CA Barnyard Technology--- Ideas for tomorrow -> from yesterday's scrap. 4th -> 5(+6)th gen. on family farm. Can Ag Sustain? A ghost town stays the same: http://www.crl.com/~toma/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 18:59:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22613 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:59:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28875 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:18:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28846 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:20:02 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.183] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AEED3F170266; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 17:17:17 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:14:39 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: National debt numbers Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2579 On Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:16:39 -0600, TED ROGERS wrote: >Gee Bart, are you saying that there is no surplus? Ted --- You and several others have asked me the same question. I'm not saying there's no surplus, the *NUMBERS* are saying there's no surplus .... NatDebt 99.09.07 = $ 5,670,241 million NatDebt 98.09.30 = $ 5,526,193 million Increase in ND = $144,040 million in 342 days This works out to $421.2 million per day. That is a 36% worse daily increase than in FY98, by the way ... NatDebt 98.09.30 = $ 5,526,193 million NatDebt 97.09.30 = $ 5,413,146 million Increase in ND = $113,047 million This works out to a mere $309.7 million per day. To put the present debt in a context we ordinary folks can understand, consider a tightly packed stack of 1000 brand new $1 bills. It will be 4 inches high. The US National Debt, as of today, would make a stack 343,455 miles (552,619 km) high. The average daily increase is equivalent to 26.2 miles per day. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 19:01:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22682 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:01:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10195 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:35:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10132 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07611 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA03298; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm9-30.nidlink.com [216.18.141.85]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA19684; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909072233.PAA19684@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 15:44:42 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, , From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Deutsche Bank Report Now on Web Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2580 I am pleased to announce that the Deutsche Bank has given permission to Ag Biotech InfoNet to post the full text of its provocative July 12, 1999 report "Ag Biotech: Thanks, But No Thanks?" This 26 page report analyzes the Dupont-Pioneer merger and sets forth the Bank's assessment of the financial prospects for life science companies that have invested heavily in seed industry mergers and biotechnology. Excerpts of the report are circulating on various lists and have, in some instances, been misquoted or taken out of context. A careful read of the report, its tables and the appendices is well worth the time for anyone interested in the economics of the emerging agricultural biotech industry. The full report is being made available in PDF format and is accessible at: http://www.biotech-info.net/Deutsche.html chuck benbrook Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 19:03:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22703 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01050 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:22:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01012 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp171.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.171]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 03A3B61752; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <018b01bef97e$a2530d60$ab9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Andy Clark" , References: Subject: Re: FSNET: Poison risk is greater from organic foods, says scientist Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:16:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2581 Can the USDA do something to save us from organic growers. Can't they regulate it and maybe get rid of organic growing all together. maybe make it so there is no more organic growers. who do these folks think putting all our life's in danger. they are tiring to grow food organic. 30 time more dangerous that GMOs something must be done about this. Only the USDA can help us get rid of these folks can u please post the others articles . I did not know organic food was so dangerous . thanks for the post Andy and keep up the great work. its about time the truth came out. I knew u could not trust these folks. bring back DDT check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Clark To: Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 1:15 PM Subject: FSNET: Poison risk is greater from organic foods, says scientist > Only one article is pasted below--from FSNET. Sorry for the formatting--I > didn't have time to fix it. > > Andy Clark > > > FSNET SEPTEMBER 7, 1999 > > > > E. coli source discovered, 112 ill > > E. coli, toxigenic, waterborne - USA (Washington) (02) > > Poison risk is greater from organic foods, says scientist > > EU food agency wins backing in Iberia > > EU likely to OK Belgian loans to dioxin-affected cos > > Undiagnosed illness, school - USA (Connecticut) > > ********** > > FSnet is produced by researchers at the Agri-Food Risk Management and > > Communications Project at the University of Guelph, is edited > > by Douglas > Powell (dpowell@uoguelph.ca), Sarah Grant > > (segrant@uoguelph.ca), and is > supported by the Ontario Ministry of > Agriculture, Food and > > Rural Affairs, > Health Canada, the U.S. National Pork Producers, the U.S. > > > National Food > Processors Association, Pfizer Animal Health Group, Dairy > Farmers of > > Canada, AGCare (Agricultural Groups Concerned About Resources and the > > Environment), Monsanto Canada, Pioneer Hi-Bred Limited > > (Canada), Canadian > Animal Health Institute, Novartis Crop Protection > Canada, > > Dairy Farmers of > Ontario, Meat & Livestock Australia, Canadian On-Farm > Food > > Safety Program, > Canadian Pork Council, the U.S. National Cattlemen's > Beef Association, > > Maple Leaf Meats/Poultry, Caravelle Foods, CKE Restaurants Inc., the > > Rutgers University Food Safety Extension Program, Ontario Farm Animal > > Council, Fleishman-Hillard Canada, Ag-West Biotech, Food > > Safety Initiative > at New England Medical Center, J.M. Schneider, Capital > > > Health, Parmalat > Food, the Ontario Soybean Growers Marketing Board, the > Canadian > > Cattlemen's Association, Food Industry Environmental Network, Canadian > > Poultry and Egg Processors, Chicken Farmers of Canada, MDS Nordion, > > American Meat Institute, International Food Focus, and the > > Agricultural > Adaptation Council (CanAdapt Program). > > > > archived at: > > http://www.extension.iastate.edu/files/fscurrent/ > > ********** > > > > > > POISON RISK IS GREATER FROM ORGANIC FOODS, SAYS SCIENTIST > > Sept. 6/99 > > Sunday Times > > Stephen Bevan and Lois Jones > > Organic food is 30 times more likely to poison you than > > conventional food, > > according to a leading scientist and top government adviser. > > Professor Alan Gray, acting chairman of the Advisory > > Committee on Releases > > to the Environment, which advises the government on the safety of > > genetically modified (GM) crops and other "novel" organisms, > > said it was a > > "myth" that organic food was safer. > > "You are 30 times more likely to poison yourself with organic produce > > because it allows Bt [the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis] to spread > > directly. There's this myth about it being natural," he said. > > Sprays containing Bt have been used for a decade by farmers to control > > caterpillars. When ingested, the bacterium produces endotoxins which > > attack > > the walls of the insects' guts. In mammals, they can cause death from > > septic shock. > > It is one of a number of biological agents permitted by > > organic certifying > > bodies such as the Soil Association, which insists it is safe > > when used > > properly. Ironically the production of Bt toxin is one of the > > key features > > of many GM crops. > > "Because it's derived from the soil it's deemed to be natural > > and organic > > farmers are therefore allowed to spray it," said Gray. "But > > Bt affects the > > health of people who work with it due to the ingestion of > > endotoxins." He > > was also concerned about the presence of harmful bacteria > > such as E-coli > > (a > > cause of food poisoning) in manures used by organic farmers. > > "By using manures instead of fertilisers you're recycling > > E-coli from the > > guts of cattle and other animals," said Gray. "This is the > > way the world > > was before we had organic fertilisers. I'm not against organic food. > > There's this sense that it's safe, but in fact the risk is > > greater than > > from eating some generic foods." > > His comments were immediately attacked as misconceived by the Soil > > Association, which certifies the majority of organic > > producers. "People > > like Professor Gray ought to know better," said Richard Young, the > > association's agricultural policy adviser. "We've drawn up > > standards for > > 30 > > years to prevent these problems. Many diseases such as E-coli > > are a result > > of intensive farming systems." > > Patrick Holden, director of the Soil Association, said he > > suspected Gray's > > comments were based on misinformation put about by the agrichemicals > > industry. "Our view is that biological toxins are fine so > > long as we can > > show they are not dangerous and are used in a targeted way. > > If there is > > new > > evidence which challenges that we would revisit the inclusion > > of Bt on the > > permitted list." > > Holden admitted that manure from conventional farms could > > contain E-coli > > or salmonella but said strict rules about how it was used made it > > extremely > > unlikely that it could contaminate any organic products. > > Radio 4 presenter John Humphrys, a keen fan of organic food, > > said: "I'm > > not > > an expert but my reaction is that this is nonsense. I've been eating > > organic food for 20 years and I haven't suffered from it." > > The comments by Gray, who works at the Institute of > > Terrestrial Ecology's > > Furzebrook research station in Dorset and is vice-president > > of the British > > Ecological Society, threaten to upset the rapidly growing and > > lucrative > > organic market. Supermarkets have doubled their sales of > > organic products > > in the past year. In some sectors, such as baby food, organic products > > represent as much as 40% of the market despite prices which > > can be as much > > as 50% higher. > > Much of the demand is driven by people who are looking for safer, > > healthier > > food, as well as less intensive farming methods which are said to be > > better > > for the environment and for animal welfare. Food certified by the Soil > > Association must be produced without the use of chemical fertilisers, > > herbicides or pesticides. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 19:07:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22872 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16974 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:45:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA16898 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990907224529.1559.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.204.81.202] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 15:45:29 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:45:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: Monster Rumor To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2582 Hello SANETeers, The rumor around the water fountain is that Shapiro is out as CEO of Monsanto as of the end of October. In addition, 1700 jobs will go. Don't know if it's true or a plant. Kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 19:46:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24398 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06910 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06847 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23351 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id TAA11095 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:15:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:15:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FSNET: Poison risk is greater from organic foods, says scientist In-Reply-To: <018b01bef97e$a2530d60$ab9144c6@rain.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2583 On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Sal wrote: > its about time the truth came out. I knew u could not trust these folks. Between Batman & Robin's (G.G. Liddy and Dennis Avery) collective hot air accelerating global warming the resulting early ice age will solve all those problemms, Sal. > bring back DDT Believe it or not "they" are trying to do just that, in 3rd world countries with malaria-carrying mosquitos. They say DDT works better than anything else. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 21:08:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14180 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01841 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:36:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01767 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:36:46 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:35:48 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:35:48 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.67] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1340223c ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:35:34 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990907192625.00937820@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:26:25 -0500 To: Subject: FSNET: Poison risk is greater from organic foods, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2584 Get out your green barnyard boots, somebody really blew it with the original piece of "life science" propaganda reported on here. (I wonder how long Prof. Gray will be with this lobbying front group?) If applying bacillius thuringensis Bacteria to plants leaves, which when ingested by lepidoptera caterpilliars produces a harmful endotoxin in their gut, is harmful to humans, How Much More Dangerous is it to eat corn and potatoes that are altered to produce the BT endotoxin Directly Thoughout Their Plant Tissues INCLUDING the plant tissues we EAT? I guess when you try to lie about reality, it is hard to keep your logic straight. MMiller >> archived at: >> http://www.extension.iastate.edu/files/fscurrent/ >> POISON RISK IS GREATER FROM ORGANIC FOODS, SAYS SCIENTIST >> Sept. 6/99 >> Sunday Times >> Stephen Bevan and Lois Jones .... >> "You are 30 times more likely to poison yourself with organic produce >> because it allows Bt [the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis] to spread >> directly. There's this myth about it being natural," he said. >> Sprays containing Bt have been used for a decade by farmers to control >> caterpillars. When ingested, the bacterium produces endotoxins which >> attack >> the walls of the insects' guts. In mammals, they can cause death from >> septic shock. ..... To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 21:14:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20535 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:14:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14308 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:54:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14264 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:54:45 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:53:48 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:53:48 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.71] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 130f223c ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:53:34 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990907194425.007c72f0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:44:25 -0500 To: Subject: HR1504 and S910 to the rescue? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2585 >Can the USDA do something to save us from organic growers. Can't they >regulate it and maybe get rid of organic growing all together. maybe make >it so there is no more organic growers. Your "wish" has already been thought of by the "life science" industry and their PAC recipents in Congress. HR1504 and S910 pending in the US Congress and Senate ..... Let's see if the corporate "investment" in the National media will pay off. Who wants to bet NBC will pick this organic food story up first? Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 7 22:48:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10849 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:48:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18949 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:27:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from rrc2.rrcnet.org (king.rrcnet.org [209.105.74.131] (may be forged)) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18940 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bataphil.rrcnet.org (l1-anp-11.rrcnet.org [209.105.74.151]) by rrc2.rrcnet.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA07164 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:25:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909080225.VAA07164@rrc2.rrcnet.org> From: "Phil Batalden" To: "sanet" Subject: food labeling Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:17:43 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2586 Being relatively new to this list, I have a couple of questions that may have already been discussed. Since I don't know how many genes are in corn and soybeans. When would corn or soybeans cease to be corn and soybeans? When one foreign gene is added? or two ? or ten percent? fifty percent? or when they finally don't look like corn or soybeans? When will the government require a different name on the label for these new ingredients? Phil To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Aug 30 18:17:27 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10811 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00459 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:36:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00323; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29782; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04816; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:45:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.pointer X-Conference: panna.pointer From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Resource Pointer #218 To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 91 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2587 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Resource Pointer #218 August 30, 1999 For copies of the following resources, please contact the appropriate publishers or organizations directly. *New Perspectives on Pesticides* September 10-11, 1999, Houston, TX. Conference sponsored by Texas Pesticide Information Network and Texans for Alternatives to Pesticides. Workshop sessions include pesticide use in schools; pesticides in drinking water; food quality; and alternatives to pesticide use in agriculture, gardens, and homes. Conference is preceded by Organic Products Fair at Houston Arboretum and Nature Center. Keynote address by Dr. Michael Hansen of Consumers Union. US$10 registration includes lunch on Saturday. Contact Texas Center for Policy Studies, P.O. Box 2618, Austin, TX 78768; phone (512) 474-0811; email tcps@econet.org; website http://www.texascenter.org/txpin *The Role of Human Exposure Assessment in the Prevention of Environmental Disease* September 22-24, 1999, Rockville, MD. Conference organized by National Institutes of Health (NIH) and National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS). Focus on exposure-dose-response-disease paradigm. Goals include describing current challenges in exposure assessment research; enhancing integration of exposure assessment with epidemiology and toxicology studies; and developing effective prevention and intervention strategies. US$75. Register by September 10. Contact Exposure Assessment Workshop, MD: A3-02, Research Triangle Park, NC 27709; phone (919) 541-4982; fax (919) 541-0295; email sabella@niehs.nih.gov *Participatory Integrated Pest Management, 1999* Paul ter Weel and Harry Van der Wulp. Provides practical introduction to participatory IPM. Summarizes problems with pesticide use in agriculture and examines lessons learned through IPM case studies. Outlines benefits of participatory IPM for food security as well as poverty alleviation and rural development. Written as a guide for staff at Netherlands Embassies in developing countries. 67 pp. Free. Contact Ministry of Foreign Affairs, P.O. Box 20061, 2500 EB The Hague, The Netherlands; fax (31-70) 348-4820, include order code 0385/E *Approaches to Reducing Agricultural Pesticide Use, 1999* Public Voice for Food and Health Policy. Discussion paper prepared for task force on agrochemical use reduction. Evaluates strategies for encouraging reduced pesticide use. Argues for greater attention to environmental concerns; strict application of 1996 Food Quality Protection Act; and improved crop insurance program. Discusses pros and cons of eco-labeling programs; need for reduction of pesticide use by food processors; environmental taxation options; and more. 30 pp. US$3. Contact Public Voice for Food and Health Policy, 1012 14th St. NW, Suite 800, Washington, DC 20005; phone (202) 387-6121; fax (202) 347-6261; website http://www.publicvoicedc.com *Purdue Pesticide Programs Website* http://www.btny.purdue.edu/PPP/ Resource provided by Purdue University Cooperative Extension Service, dedicated to pesticide education outreach; coordination of pesticide research and impact assessment projects; and transfer of regulatory information. Provides access to Purdue Pesticide Programs (PPP) publications for pesticide professionals and general public. Titles include Pesticides and Applicator Certification; Pesticides and Spill Management; Pesticides and Epidemiology; and more. Includes links to current and past issues of PPP quarterly newsletter. Newsletter and other publications also available in hard copy, most free of charge. Contact Purdue Pesticide Programs, 1155 Lilly Hall of Life Sciences, West Lafayette, IN 47907- 1155; phone (765) 494-4566 or (888) 398-4636; fax (765) 496-1556; email whitford@btny.purdue.edu We encourage those interested in having resources listed in the PANUPS Resource Pointer to send review copies of publications, videos or other resources to our office. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 02:43:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27674 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA06664 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:18:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06604 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07930 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:12:49 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: Avery on global warming; GE tofu; French farmers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id CAA06617 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2588 Howdy, all-- Andy wrote: >I was struck by three (unrelated--it all seems related!) letters to the >editor of the Washington Post on 8/28/99: Oh, they're related alright, Andy. In my view, primarily in this way: If someone published research evidence in the science section that the sun rose this morning, the /Post/ would look for letters to the editor by the Flat Earth Society claming that the sun DIDN'T rise, the Dragon of the East spat it out for the Dragon of the West to later devour, and it's those dadblamed liberals who run the world who think in terms of such hoo-ha as celestial motion and round planets. Later, Maureen Dowd would write a sniping opinion column about it. :^) This is the latter-day interpretation of the principle that used to be known "journalistic balance." Actual balance requires way more staff and human-hours -per-story than most newspapers care to budget. So if Source A says X, we must concomitantly, or later in the Letters to the Editor section publish source B saying not-X. This also accounts for why Dennis Avery gets called upon to "balance" the perspectives of people who actually have them, when all he basically does is sit there saying "Nuh-uh, NYEAH!" and spouting undocumented assertions, while trying to change the subject (I think it was Greg Gunthorp who observed that here recently, re: Jeff Ishee's Avery/Salatin interview). There's always a market for uninformed "contrarians." >Climate, Castles, Cathedrals > >Saturday, August 28, 1999; Page A18 > >What if the eco-activists are right and global warming is heading our way, >as David Ignatius asks ["Naysay Now, Pay Later"? op-ed, Aug.18]. > >Luckily, we can look at the prospect of warming through the historical >record, not an uncertain computer model. The answer is that we'd return to >the finest weather in recorded history, the Medieval Climate Optimum >(950-1300 A.D.). The Climate Optimum featured temperatures about 3 >degrees Fahrenheit higher than we have now. That's almost exactly what >the global climate models are predicting (though we've had no significant >warming since 1940). > >Food production surged during the optimum because of milder winters and >longer growing seasons. All of the famous cathedrals and castles in Europe >were built during that period because people had time to spare from >working in the fields. Storms were fewer and milder. The polar ice caps >did not melt. There was no wave of wildlife species extinction. > >DENNIS T. AVERY >Swoope, Va. > > Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company I laughed till the bird stared, when I read this. Dennis's version of mediaeval history reads like a Monty Python movie: Scene I: Year, 957, somewhere in Shropshire JOAN, goodwife of Aethelred: Aethelred!! We 'ave some lovely filth over 'ere for the pigs n wattle daub!!! AETHELRED, peasant farmer and serf: No, way, love! I'm not muckin' in the muckety-muck no more! The weather's been so nice and warm since 950, I don't 'ave to work much tillin' the land by 'and and 'orse, plantin', growin' the crops, settin' em by, gettin' em to market! Why, the food practically grows itself through the miracle of climate warming! I 'ave so much time on my 'ands! So, goodwife, I'm leavin' you an' the kids an' the family an' the countryside and movin' to the big city and buildin' a big cathedral for the Pope...or maybe I'll stay right 'ere an' build a luxurious castle for our UberLord and 'is army! They've done so much for us serfs...anyway, didn't kill us yet...so it's time we did sumpin' in return for them! Besides creatin' their wealth, which at this point in 'istory consists mainly of food, since armies march on their stomachs and even the powerful 'ave to eat! Given Dennis Avery's tendency to align himself with those with money and profile opportunities (corporations, media, foundations), his Churches N Cathedrals interpretation of the Middle Ages is no doubt, to his mind, plausible. Historical phenomena like the forced concentration of wealth and land in Europe, or the economic enslavement of the craftsman class, or the unplanned urbanization that led to the Black Plague (the Howard Zinn model of history--where it's happening to the unchronicled majority) are not likely to get his attention. And he's likely anyway to consider a castle more important than a crop as a measure of a culture's success. (Whereas I'd say a culture's advanced status can be measured in inches of good humus. To hell with castles--I adore old stuff as much as any history geek...but any civilization full of slaves and administrators, with an architect or two and a handful of obscenely wealthy people, can build castles and cathedrals. Only a free society with good values, social justice, and true wisdom can build soil). Our buddy Dennis could learn a lot from historian Michael Clanchy's treatise on land use and its documentation in England. He examined Chancery Court records, starting with the Norman Conquest and moving through the /quo warranto/ proceedings that made it possible for the French conquering class to steal smallholders' land solely because they were not literate (the entire framework of English/Anglo-Saxon land law and jurisprudence was based on oral forms). This occurred over the course of three centuries--1066 to 1377. Pretty close to Dennis's time frames, eh? But let's not trouble him with facts, on history, global climate change, the effects of pesticides on biological systems, the needs and experiences of rural communities, or anything else. The man is so far removed from reality, his words should require DEA approval before consumption, on the grounds that they can cause giddiness, disordered vision, and hallucinations. Do not read before operating heavy machinery. >Our Wholesome Tofu > >Saturday, August 28, 1999; Page A18 > >I write in response to Rick Weiss's two "Biotech" news stories that ran on >Aug. 15, one on the front page. Our product, Mori-Nu Tofu, was shown >in a close-up photograph captioned "This tofu consumer food from >California, for sale in markets in this region, contains engineered soybean >products." > >While I am sure The Post had no malicious intent, the caption's wording >apparently has led many readers to believe that our product is loaded with >genetically altered ingredients because, unfortunately, we have had several >phone calls from concerned consumers and stores. > >Our company is very concerned with food safety and packages our tofu >aseptically, which increases nutrient retention and flavor while ensuring >safety. For the record, a recent test conducted by a third-party testing lab >shows our product to contain only 0.1 percent of genetically modified >material. > >ARTHUR Z. MIO >Director of Sales and Marketing >Morinaga Nutritional Foods, Inc. >Torrance, Calif. > > Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company There's a wonderful cartoon in the 8/9 issue of /The New Yorker/. A lab-coat-clad scientist is at a podium, beseiged by the microphones and attentions of an obviously assertive flock of folks, and he, looking defensive and eager, says something like, "But apart from the presence of a few rat droppings and shards of glass, it's a perfectly wonderful product!!!!!!" And finally: >Enough to Gag On > >Saturday, August 28, 1999; Page A18 > >The French farmers protesting American hormones in imported beef are >probably only sorry they didn't think of it first ["Something's Rotten in >Roquefort: A New U.S. Tariff," front page, Aug. 21]. I visit the French >countryside often, and when I hear them speak disingenuously of their >produits de qualite I can only gag on the enormous amounts of fertilizer, >insecticide, herbicide and you-name-it-cide I see them spreading >everywhere, polluting the groundwater and endangering public health >throughout its beautiful country. This is the same government that has >chosen to put at risk the entire continent by its obsessive attachment to >nuclear power. > >I offer my congratulations to the American officials for their exquisitely >chosen targets in French agriculture. The protests in Roquefort, Dijon and >foie-gras land are confirmation of the effectiveness of the message. > >RICHARD JOHNSTON >New York > > Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company French bashing *and* farmer bashing!!! Two mints in one!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya just gotta New York!!! peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is a revolution, dammit! We're going to have to offend SOMEbody! --John Adams (in the musical /1776/) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 02:44:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA29050 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA06649 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:18:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06570 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:18:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07892 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:59:10 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: Economic Reporting Review Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2589 Howdy, all-- Bart asked: > >It spots the errors of fact or interpretative biases/assumptions in > >these two newspapers' reporting on economic issues. > >Do you think it can help me understand why politicians on both sides of >the aisle and at both ends of Pennsylvania avenue have be squabbling >over what to do with the Budget Surplus --- and newspapers across the >land reporting on 99 Billion dollars to distribute --- while apparently >unnoticed, the US National Debt has increased by an average of $416 >million per day, every single day since 1 October 1998 ?? The ERR archives might have insights on that. This is the kind of question that Dean Baker considers--the construction of economic data and its reportage. I can't do anything other than recommend you look for yourself. As for understanding the motives of politicians, the politicians to whom you refer are, by and large, multimillionaires. In my experience their motives aren't that much more confusing or mysterious than that of Edna's guinea fowl. That is: pecking order, and alpha male dominance. Only far less democratic than bird society. As for economists, most of the ones I've known have been long on theory and short on practical experience...and always eager to assert that they have no political motives for the way they construct their data. ERR's sponsoring organizations might be of help to you in your confusion; The Preamble Center is a good place to go for working-people-based economic analysis, if you're interested in independent perspectives on the topic: http://www.preamble.org FAIR, Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, since 1986 has worked to reveal how media corporations function in both their business dealings and reportage: http://www.fair.org Another good source of independent information analysis includes PR Watch, sponsored by the Center for Media and Democracy: http://www.prwatch.org PR Watch does a good job of indicating which monied forces are shaping public discourse in what ways. Today's hype is frequently tomorrow's headline. I've also found Project Censored very helpful. Each year, this project chooses a "top ten" list of news stories that mainstream media ignored (though smaller, independent media often have investigated and reported): http://www.sonoma.edu/ProjectCensored/ There is also Corporate Watch: http://www.corporatewatch.org This quote is on their home page: "The Earth is not dying, it is being killed, and those who are killing it have names and addresses." --Utah Philips Bart, pardon my bluntness, but based on your last three SANET postings, you come across as convinced that the world sucks pennywhistles and the US is going to Hades in a handbag. To me, that seems more of a perspective than anything that information sources can change. I personally see a lot of cause for joy, hope, and excitement in a time of amazing growth and chaos. For chaos, as the mathematicians and physicists have discovered, is merely a higher order of order, waiting to unfold. The fact that organizations like those above manage to exist and do wonderful work, at a time when so many people are cynical, curmudgeonly, and re-adhering themselves to the security of absolutist viewpoints to avoid coping with exciting change, strikes me as something of the caliber of Divine Intervention. Or anyway a message. But then my personal deities are Evolutionary: big on growth and change, and not much interested in stagnation. And none of them have much invested in the status quo of the past 50 years. They're in this for the much longer haul. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I prefer a rude vigor to a polished banality. --Utah Philips To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 09:46:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15212 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18900 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:19:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18867 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.137]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA03873 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:13:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990908081803.00716804@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 08:18:03 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: FSNET: Poison risk is greater from organic foods, says scientist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA18868 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2590 Dear SANET, Science for pay at the service of corporate politics has reached a new low with this pathetic piece of propaghanda. The willingness of scientists to make statements like this is clearly descrediting science in the public eyes. At one time scientists were believed to be altruistically motivated by the search for knowledge for the benefit of all. Perhpas it was never true, but it was an ideal and it kept scientist from this kind of grovelling to corporate interests. To make such a statement, using fictional quantities to give a false air of "scientific precision" ("30 times more dangerous") with absolutely no kind of study to back it up is junk science at it's worst and a disgusting display of subservience to the basest interests of our society. As a scientist I am ashamed and saddened and I protest this debasement of our profession. This and other statements are clearly timed with the bills introduced to outlaw "plant pests" and other moves--corporate America is clearly on the warpath against real organic farming. Armed with unethical science, WTO and Codex Alimentarius and the new Federal organic regulations it will soon me the case that the only "organic" farmer in America is Monsanto. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 10:41:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16234 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14272 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:09:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14268 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990908140842.JDMK29123.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:08:42 -0700 Message-ID: <37D66EBF.3E2F6B9E@home.com> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 07:12:15 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: organic is pathogenic, NOT! References: <199909080621.CAA09755@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2591 > > > Organic food is 30 times more likely to poison you than > > > conventional food, > > > What a bunch of hogwash.....Personally ,I eat veggies out of the garden(clean em/dust em off/ on my shirt,pants...eat eggs raw(free range-all natural feed, no hormones... and my Harris Ranch (top sirloin) raw , or just slightly browned. Raw milk on occasion as well as suplemental organic veggies from the store. If anything, I breaking the envelope and should be exposing myself to more risk/pathogens. Hoooey I say Bill Evans sandiego To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 10:45:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16325 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:45:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14013 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:08:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA13974 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 3249 ; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 10:05:29 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 1926; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:05:29 -0400 Message-Id: <08SEP99.10898512.0019.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 10:05:28 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: Subject: Re[2]: Agriculture and Energy X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Tue, 07 Sep 1999 18:09:18 EDT Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2592 Appologies to those who ran into trouble connecting to the energy bibliography address i posted a few days back. ... correct address is: www.agrenv.mcgill.ca/agrecon/staff.htm .. then click on my name and look for the bibliography link on my page ... ... you can get there direct at: http://www.agrenv.mcgill.ca/AGRECON/STAFF/HENNING/energy.htm .....john ============ >Hi John, > >I get the following message when I try your link > >Directory Listing Denied >This Virtual Directory does not allow contents to be listed. > >Can we get around that? > >Thanks, >Christine > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca >[mailto:INF3@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA] > Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 9:33 AM > To: LoveC@energy.wsu.edu > Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Agriculture and Energy > > Christine .... i have put a few references up on the web >that > might be of use: > > www.agrenv.mcgill.ca/agrecon/staff/ > > .. click on my name to get my page then look for the link > to the energy and agr bibliography > > ... john henning > > ================================== > >Hello, > > > >I am looking for good information on energy topics in >relation to > >agriculture. I intend on sharing the information with a >wide-ranging > >audience (limited to the US), on an on-going basis. What >I'd like are leads > >to good fact sheets and publications, web sites, training >opportunities, > >etc. > > > >I welcome your referrals. > > > >Christine Love > >WSU Coop. Ext. Energy Program > >(360) 956-2172 > >lovec@energy.wsu.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 10:55:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16808 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:23:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23126 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA00777; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:48:10 GMT Message-ID: <37D668E8.F682E8CF@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 08:47:21 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Guinea fowl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2593 I agree with Miss Edna - guineas are fine for insect (including tick) control, but only if you can stand them. Besides being messy, they are incredibly annoying. I used to have a neighbor with a flock of about 20. They liked to guard my place as well as his. After a couple of months I asked my neighbor if he would like some help "harvesting" those birds. He got tired of 'em too, 'cause a week later they were gone. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 10:59:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16882 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25360 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:30:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25298 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA00780; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:54:38 GMT Message-ID: <37D66A9C.1F029281@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 08:54:37 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Senate Prayer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2594 Ellen....run for your life!! You said something about this forum being for agriculture, not religion. You must be new to this newsgroup. Heed my advice, use the term "spirituality" and you may be safe ;-> And Saneteers....don't start with me again, I'm just pulling her cyberleg a little. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 11:28:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17462 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08561 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08492 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16804 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA14729 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:55:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:55:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2595 PRN CONSUMER ALERT: Sep8 1999 5:21 WASHINGTON, Sept. 7 /PRNewswire/ -- The following op-ed piece is by Frances B. Smith, Executive Director of Consumer Alert: Archer Daniels Midland Co. -- fond of touting itself as "Supermarket to the World" -- should change its slogan to "Specialty Market to the Rich of the World." ADM recently warned its grain suppliers they would have to segregate crops produced from biotechnology from those produced conventionally. Not only would this redundancy cause prices to rise significantly for consumers on a whole range of food products, but reactions like ADM's could spread and grind to a halt the potential benefits that biotechnology could bring to millions of starving and malnourished people in developing countries. ADM's action came in the wake of hysteria in Europe fueled by anti-biotechnology activists and fanned by tabloid-type media coverage. The anti- biotech campaigns have moved quickly to the U.S. and Canada. Leading the charge was Greenpeace, whose first targets were baby food producers -- Gerber, for one -- whom they scared into promising "never ever to do it again, mommy," that is, to use food produced through biotechnology in its baby foods. Gerber is going to use "organic" food instead, even though there is no scientific evidence that organically grown food is safer, purer, or more healthful than conventionally grown or bio-engineered food. Indeed, agronomists point to Centers for Disease Control data showing fresh, unprocessed organic foodstuffs may have a higher incidence of food-borne pathogens. Some large companies before Gerber had already caved in to the fear-mongering campaigns against foods produced through biotechnology, even though they know and have stated publicly that there is no scientific justification for their actions.As ADM said in its statement, the company "remains supportive of the science and safety" of bioengineered crops, but it was worried about customers abroad who are concerned about gene-altered crops. ADM's buckling under, however, speaks more loudly than its "supportive" words to customers and consumers and is likely to provide fertile ground for activists to make further inroads.Indeed, Reuters quotes European activists as declaring "victory" in response to ADM's cave-in. Critical public health benefits that biotechnology can offer could be set back through companies' playing into the hands of Greenpeace, et al.If biotechnology research proceeds at its current pace, the human and environmental benefits of agricultural biotechnology could be dramatic and widespread in the near future. That would mean higher crop yields and a likely reduction in pesticide usage. Biotechnology is the best hope we have of meeting the growing food demands of a world population that will increase by at least 50 percent in the next several years.If we don't increase yields on the land already being farmed, the alternative is to put more land into production -- lands that now represent forests and wildlife areas. Among the possibilities of biotechnology are drought resistant crops and plants resistant to aluminum toxicity, which cuts crop yields in vast regions of the world, primarily in developing countries. Enhanced nutritional levels of staple crops can prevent diseases that are life-threatening or debilitating. In just one example, gene-altered rice has been enhanced with Vitamin A and could help eradicate blindness, caused by a deficiency of that vitamin, in millions of children. Currently, consumers know little about those benefits. Activist groups that are campaigning against this new technology in countries across the world ignore the positive and instead promote images of fear and dread to depict the products of biotechnology. It is not a food safety issue, however. It is an issue of a new technology that rubs against the values and tastes of some, who, in satisfying their own preferences, would deny biotechnology's benefits to the world. SOURCEConsumer Alert -0- 09/07/1999 /CONTACT:Fran Smith of Consumer Alert, 202-467-5809, or e-mail, Info@consumeralert.org/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From guldann@ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 8 11:31:22 1999 Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17516 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA21255; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:30:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2c-184.ix.netcom.com(209.110.254.184) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021126; Wed Sep 8 10:29:59 1999 Message-ID: <007e01befa0e$f5d7cf80$aafe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:29:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2596 -Ok yuke on the below piece. It is still humerous the play the starving people card. Beth > > >PRN CONSUMER ALERT: >Sep8 1999 5:21 > >WASHINGTON, Sept. 7 /PRNewswire/ -- The following op-ed piece is by Frances >B. Smith, Executive Director of Consumer Alert: >Archer Daniels Midland Co. -- fond of touting itself as "Supermarket to the >World" -- should change its slogan to "Specialty Market to the Rich of the >World." ADM recently warned its grain suppliers they would have to >segregate crops produced from biotechnology from those produced >conventionally. Not only would this redundancy cause prices to rise >significantly for consumers on a whole range of food products, but >reactions like ADM's could spread and grind to a halt the potential >benefits that biotechnology could bring to millions of starving and >malnourished people in developing countries. ADM's action came in the wake >of hysteria in Europe fueled by anti-biotechnology activists and fanned by >tabloid-type media coverage. The anti- biotech campaigns have moved quickly >to the U.S. and Canada. Leading the charge was Greenpeace, whose first >targets were baby food producers -- Gerber, for one -- >snip From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 11:37:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17706 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09826 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:01:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09717 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id OAA00825; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:26:24 GMT Message-ID: <37D67210.50DC6E54@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 09:26:24 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Good Science Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2597 Don Morac said: Does "good science" cost more or less that "junk science"? Probably in most cases "good science" is my science and "junk science" is your science. Or, in the descriptive words I often use when dealing with arguments/debates political, "It all depends on whose bull is being gored." Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 11:38:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17776 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06856 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:52:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA06828 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990908145221.10128.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.234] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 07:52:21 PDT Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:52:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Fwd: RE: Food Ethics Review To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, nefood-l@listproc.tufts.edu, comfood-l@listproc.tufts.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2598 Forwarded -- --- tom.gold-blyth@blacksci.co.uk wrote: > From: tom.gold-blyth@blacksci.co.uk > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:45:06 +0100 > To: kir139@yahoo.com > Subject: RE: Food Ethics Review > Tom Gold-Blyth > Marketing & Sales Manager > Blackwell Science Ltd > Tel Direct: +44 (0) 1865 206183 > Tel Main: +44 (0) 1865 206206 > Fax: +44 (0) 1865 721205 > E-mail: > URL: > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > CALL for PAPERS > > New Journal in 2000 > > FOOD ETHICS REVIEW > Promoting discussion and debate about food > > * Do we need GM foods and are they safe ? > * Do supermarkets offer consumer choice or achieve consumer control ? > * Does intensive agriculture show greater respect for money than for animals and > environments ? > * Are organic foods an expensive step into the past only for the wealthy and privileged > ? > > Food Ethics Review .... > > is an exciting new international refereed journal for all who are involved with food at > a professional level including those in agricultural and food related business and > commerce, academia and research, government and public bodies. > > will serve as an essential forum for ideas and discussion on ethical and moral issues > in relation to food, raising the level of debate at every stage in the food chain from > primary production to the consumer. > > will adopt a broad inter-disciplinary approach to the subject of food and publish > original and authoritative research, review articles, viewpoint letters and > commentaries from diverse areas, including: > > - agriculture and food production > - the biosciences > - environmental and public health > - food science and technology > - food marketing and retailing > - philosophy, politics and economics > - the humanitarian and social sciences > > EDITORIAL BOARD > > Editor > > David Early - Harper Adams University > > Associate Editors > > Margaret Britz - University of Melbourne, Australia > Magni Martens, The Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Denmark > > Editorial Board Members > > Gavin Bailey - Safeway plc, UK > Mostafa Barigou - University of Birmingham, UK > Lawrence Busch - Michigan State University, USA > Colin Dennis - Campden & Chorleywood Research Association, UK > Michael Fuller - University of Plymouth, UK > Susan Harlander - Pillsbury Technology Centre, USA > David Hughes - Wye College, University of London, UK > Anthony Kinney - Dupont, USA > Margaret Mar - House of Lords, UK > Ben Mepham - Centre for Food Ethics, UK > Stephen Parsons - Harper Adams University College, UK > David Richardson - Nestle Ltd, UK > Michele Sadler - Institute of Grocery Distribution, UK > Graham Scott - Harper Adams University College, UK > Paul Thompson - Purdue University, USA > Stephen Wilkinson - Keele University, UK > > > FOOD ETHICS REVIEW...will be at the forefront of discussion on ethical and moral issues > in relation to food. Papers published will include the following areas: > > > designer foods and nutraceuticals > > food availability and supply > > food ingredients development and use, eg chemically engineered non-nutritious food > materials > > food retailing and its social impact > > duty of the agri-food industry to food animals, the environment and future > generations > > genetically engineered food crops and food materials - ethical dimensions in relation > to socio-economic and socio environmental considerations > > genetically engineered food crops and food materials in relation to issues of human > nutrition, food safety and food security > > impact of the agri-industry on consumer health and autonomy > > obligations of food producers, manufacturers and retailers to consumers in relation > to competitive advantage and profit > > the actions of international trading and international standards organisations in > setting standards for food such that they act as barriers to trade and restrict food > availability > > the relationship between profit, food quality and nutrition in the production, > manufacture and retailing of food > > the relationship between the agri-food industry's profit motives and the need for > human beings for a balanced nutritious diet > > Food Ethics Review (1466-7665) will be published quarterly in 2000 - first issue in > March. > > For all information about either: > > Guidelines for Authors > Subscriptions > > > Please e-mail: tom.gold-blyth@blacksci.co.uk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 12:11:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18800 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:11:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:33:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24529 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA21255; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:30:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2c-184.ix.netcom.com(209.110.254.184) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021126; Wed Sep 8 10:29:59 1999 Message-ID: <007e01befa0e$f5d7cf80$aafe6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:29:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2599 -Ok yuke on the below piece. It is still humerous the play the starving people card. Beth > > >PRN CONSUMER ALERT: >Sep8 1999 5:21 > >WASHINGTON, Sept. 7 /PRNewswire/ -- The following op-ed piece is by Frances >B. Smith, Executive Director of Consumer Alert: >Archer Daniels Midland Co. -- fond of touting itself as "Supermarket to the >World" -- should change its slogan to "Specialty Market to the Rich of the >World." ADM recently warned its grain suppliers they would have to >segregate crops produced from biotechnology from those produced >conventionally. Not only would this redundancy cause prices to rise >significantly for consumers on a whole range of food products, but >reactions like ADM's could spread and grind to a halt the potential >benefits that biotechnology could bring to millions of starving and >malnourished people in developing countries. ADM's action came in the wake >of hysteria in Europe fueled by anti-biotechnology activists and fanned by >tabloid-type media coverage. The anti- biotech campaigns have moved quickly >to the U.S. and Canada. Leading the charge was Greenpeace, whose first >targets were baby food producers -- Gerber, for one -- >snip To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 12:18:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18894 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04697 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:52:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from spamraaa.compuserve.com (as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.142]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04676 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id LAA22433 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:51:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.175.109.32] (mid-qbu-nqq-vty5.as.wcom.net [216.192.109.5]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with ESMTP id LAA22329 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: LawsonValentine@pop.site1.csi.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:50:56 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Lucy Miller Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2600 This is really bothering me. I know the question came up on sanet a few weeks ago, but did we ever establish whether or not this study exists? I know Dennis Avery was touting such a study at the very beginning of this year. He was quoted in the Wall Street Journal, and it was picked up by the Times. But Times food/consumer writer Marian Burros debunked the whole thing, explaining that there WAS NO SUCH STUDY! (I think it was specifically supposed to be about e coli contamination.) So is this another study? Did the CDC take Dennis' cue and __do__ a study? Does anyone out there know? > > Indeed, agronomists point to >Centers for Disease Control data showing fresh, unprocessed organic >foodstuffs may have a higher incidence of food-borne pathogens. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 12:46:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19526 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17087 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:15:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE2.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17080 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from abc ([128.253.251.239]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14603; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990908120530.00b34c30@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: cm52@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:14:10 -0400 To: dsfs@lists.umbc.edu, BIOTECH-L@cornell.edu, biotech_activists@iatp.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Chris McCullum Subject: GE Article in Time Magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2601 FYI - see below. For those of you who follow the genetic engineering debate, there is a two-page article on genetic engineering and international trade, food safety, and consumer concerns, i.e., consumer-right-to-know in the latest issue of Time magazine (September 13, 1999) - pp. 43-44 under the Business section. Apologies for any cross postings. Chris To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 13:16:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20082 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:16:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28555 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:39:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28546 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:39:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA06579; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:38:29 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma006045; Wed, 8 Sep 99 11:38:04 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 08 Sep 1999 11:38:04 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:38:03 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEEE@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Phil Batalden'" Cc: sanet Subject: Breeding and speciation (was food labeling) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:37:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2602 Phil, > When would corn or soybeans cease to be corn and soybeans? > When one foreign gene is added? or two ? or ten percent? > fifty percent? or when they finally don't look like corn or > soybeans? Species are integrated systems of great complexity. No one understands enough biology to engineer them on a systems level. Corn has something like 60,000 genes. Crop species are mainly manipulated by conventional breeding, by sexual recombination of diverse types and selection of progeny. Compared to the great changes that have apparently occurred over millions of years via natural selection, all the changes we make are pretty minor. One interesting example, and seeming exception is corn. The form and growth habit were very much changed (apparently derived from teosinte) through selection by humans several thousand years ago. Probably, rare mutants were selected and propagated and this gave rise to what we call corn. No transformation of plants this dramatic has occurred yet in the modern period, so there are no regulatory precedents. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 13:32:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20400 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05928 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:57:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05701 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp117.epix.net [209.74.60.117]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999072601/PL) with ESMTP id MAA16888 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D6981C.5D1EC3FC@epix.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 13:08:44 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: Generation of farmers endangered by antitrust action Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2603 WORLD VIEW REPORT September 8, 1999 Generation of farmers endangered by antitrust inaction, says Senator More than 400 farmers and rural activists, including sizable groups from Kansas, Missouri and Minnesota, filled an auditorium in Kirkwood College, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, on Tuesday for a town hall meeting on antitrust and economic concentration in agriculture. Senators Grassley and Harkin of Iowa and Wellstone of Minnesota, Mike Dunn of USDA, Joel Klein of the U.S. Department of Justice and Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller briefed the audience and received input from farmers, academics and the audience. Senator Wellstone received enthusiastic audience support for when he announced he would ask President Clinton to give a yes or no answer to his proposal to place a moratorium on mergers or acquisitions of companies worth over $50 million until Congress can review anti-trust laws and consider further legislation. This action is vital, said Wellstone, because "we are on course to lose a generation of producers" if something isn't done quickly. For the rest of the story, go to http://www.agriculture.com/worldwide/partners/agonline.html -- Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 14:01:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20821 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23717 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:28:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23704 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:28:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ztm51-43.Zoetermeer.NL.net by grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via ztm51-43.Zoetermeer.NL.net [195.108.245.208] with SMTP id TAA04610 (8.8.8/1.19); Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:27:21 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909081727.TAA04610@grootstal.nijmegen.inter.nl.net> From: "Frits v/d Laan" To: "J.F.Hensler" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:25:57 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Rain vs. Irrigation Reply-to: F.vd.Laan@inter.nl.net CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2604 > Date: Mon, 06 Sep 99 13:03:00 > From: "J.F.Hensler" > Subject: Re: Rain vs. Irrigation > (Terry Mooney) wrote: > > > > > Why doesn't irrigation water have the same dramatic effect on plants > > >that rainwater does ? A very important fact is the moisture of the air, When it rains this is almost 100% relatively. plants have developed over millions of years in this conditions so on one hand they might experiens irrigation as artificial. It could also be that when the air is very hot and dry plants will evaporate the water they take up and salts, nutrients will stay behind in higher concentrations than when plants get water from rain. > Eliska replied: > > > > I'm wondering that myself. Water conservation proponents say that a > > deep watering twice a week will help a plant develop deep roots and > > good growth. > > After a dry spell here in Florida, during which my plants just hung > > in, we had lots of rain. They flourished - lots of new foilage and > > flowers and growth spurts. > > > > So waht's up with that? > > > Yo both: > > I remember reading somewhere, I can't provide a reference, that rain > water (especially thunder showers) contains a small amount of > nitrogen, in effect applying a top dressing of fertilizer every time > it rains. We too have noticed that rain water is far superior to well > water for all types of growing things... > > Skip Frits v/d Laan Organic horticulture. Gouda - Netherlands http://web.inter.nl.net/users/F.vd.Laan/ mail f.vd.laan@inter.nl.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 16:52:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23857 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24755 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:24:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (wvnvm.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24682 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Kotcon.CAF.WVU.EDU [157.182.39.119] by WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:24:04 EDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990908202152.00f634c8@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jkotcon@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:21:52 -0400 To: "Wilson, Dale" From: James Kotcon Subject: Re: Breeding and speciation (was food labeling) Cc: sanet Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2605 I do not believe any consensus exists among scientists as to how much genetic divergence is needed to name a new species. In some bacteria, a single gene difference will lead to a new species name, while in other bacteria, as much as 30 % of the genome may vary within the same "species". Humans and chimpanzees share 99 % of our genome, so that 1 % difference appears to be biologically and evolutionarily significant. Jim Kotcon At 11:37 AM 9/8/99 -0500, you wrote: >Phil, > >> When would corn or soybeans cease to be corn and soybeans? >> When one foreign gene is added? or two ? or ten percent? >> fifty percent? or when they finally don't look like corn or >> soybeans? > >Species are integrated systems of great complexity. No one understands >enough biology to engineer them on a systems level. Corn has something like >60,000 genes. Crop species are mainly manipulated by conventional breeding, >by sexual recombination of diverse types and selection of progeny. Compared >to the great changes that have apparently occurred over millions of years >via natural selection, all the changes we make are pretty minor. One >interesting example, and seeming exception is corn. The form and growth >habit were very much changed (apparently derived from teosinte) through >selection by humans several thousand years ago. Probably, rare mutants were >selected and propagated and this gave rise to what we call corn. > >No transformation of plants this dramatic has occurred yet in the modern >period, so there are no regulatory precedents. > >Dale > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 17:35:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24755 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18483 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:00:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA18432 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:00:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id PAA22039; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:59:48 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma020696; Wed, 8 Sep 99 15:58:53 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 08 Sep 1999 15:58:54 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:58:52 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEEF@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'James Kotcon'" Cc: sanet Subject: RE: Breeding and speciation (was food labeling) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:58:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2606 Jim, > I do not believe any consensus exists among > scientists as to how much genetic divergence > is needed to name a new species. It seems like there is consensus that calling something a different species hinges on reproductive isolation. The isolation may result from actual reproductive incompatibility (ie, genetic difference) or spatial-temporal isolation. The latter reason is why different runs of salmon are considered different species, for the purpose of the endangered species act. When populations are reproductively isolated for any reason, they will begin to diverge genetically. Plant breeding has tended to break down barriers in an attempt to stir the pot to develop new varieties. For example, wild Solanum species are crossed with potato to move disease resistance genes from the wild species into the crop. Sometimes the crosses are not very compatible, and special techniques are needed to permit crossing. In any case, the meaning of "species" depends on the context. In the breeding context, only cross-compatibility is relevant. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 18:35:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26073 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04794 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:07:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04742 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:07:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02035 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EK2B4U8L; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:04:16 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:47:56 -0700 Subject: food labeling Message-ID: <19990908.144914.3518.2.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4-6,15,21,28,32-33 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2607 Phil asked: .... When would corn or soybeans cease to be corn and soybeans? When one foreign gene is added? or two ? or ten percent? fifty percent? or when they finally don't look like corn or soybeans? When will the government require a different name on the label for these new ingredients?... Edna's reply: I don't know how much corn or soybeans--or whatever--can be changed before the powers that be will decide they are "substantially different" but I feel labeling for any gene taken from outside of a species is critical because a gene (taken from an entirely different organism) might make a protein to which I or someone else is allergic while the plant and food product still looks like corn or soybeans. I understand that someone actually choose a Brazil Nut gene to "improve" another food crop (was it soybean?) and inadvertently choose the gene that produces the primary allergen of Brazil nuts. To put it another way, my body can detect (by allergic reaction) levels of contaminants that analytical chemists are hard-pressed to detect by other means. Meanwhile, if one happens to be allergic to Brazil nuts, he or she can avoid Brazil Nuts. It should be that simple. But now they have to worry about what Brazil Nut proteins may have been inserted into what still looks like (and is labeled as) another food. Corn and soybeans each must have thousands, if not millions, of genes and many, many of them would have to be changed before the corn or soybeans look "substantially different." But if the one gene that is changed produces a protein that someone is allergic to, that person's body will know even if the government, influenced by all the mega bucks GE companies are pouring into lobbying, defines the new product and not substantially different. Thank goodness for the public outcry that forced Glickman to back down on allowing GE foods to be considered "organic." That means I still have one way of avoiding unlabeled GE foods...that is, unless some organic farmer's crop is contaminated by a neighbor's GE crop... Regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 19:21:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26884 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02921 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:47:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02813 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02670 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EK2EEQPE; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:44:36 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:28:18 -0700 Subject: Rain vs. Irrigation Message-ID: <19990908.152922.3518.4.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12,17-18 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2608 What I'm missing in the previous discussions of this subject (and my computer time has been limited so I may have overlooked something by scanning too fast) is the fact that rain water (as opposed to ground water and surface runoff water) is nearly free of salts. At least in the arid part of Arizona where I live, the conventional advice is to water deeply every third or fourth time to wash the salts below root level. I don't do that, but then I don't add conventional fertilizer or more than a very little manure and thus have less salt build up in my soil than I otherwise would have. Conventional fertilizing (as well as excessive manure) adds to the problem by adding excess salts (I'm not talking about just sodium chloride here, but salts such as ammonium nitrate, super phosphate, etc.) which change the osmotic pressure in the soil to make it harder for the plants to take up the water that is present. While I agree that the nitrogen and humidity most likely have a positive effect, I think the relative purity of rain water makes it more effectively absorbed by plants than water that has been saturated with whatever salts it picks up as it percolates through the ground on its way to the water table. Happy growing, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Sep 8 19:08:07 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26647 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26704 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:36:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26557; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29395; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24207; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 14:40:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.panups X-Conference: panna.panups From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Seed Industry Giants To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 107 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2609 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Seed Industry Giants: Who Owns Whom? September 8, 1999 A shrinking number of colossal companies -- nicknamed the "Gene Giants" -- dominate global sales of seeds and agrochemicals, according to a new report released by the Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI). The top five Gene Giants (AstaZeneca, DuPont, Monsanto, Novartis, Aventis) account for nearly two-thirds of the global pesticide market (60%), almost one-quarter (23%) of the commercial seed market, and virtually 100% of the transgenic (genetically engineered) seed market. "The Gene Giants' portfolio extends far beyond plant breeding," explains Pat Mooney, Executive Director of RAFI. "From plants, to animals, to human genetic material, they are fast becoming monopoly monarchs over all the life kingdoms." Five years ago, none of top five Gene Giants appeared on the list of leading seed corporations. In fact, three of the top five companies didn't even exist. Zeneca and Astra merged to form AstraZeneca; Rhone Poulenc and Hoechst became Aventis; Ciba Geigy and Sandoz became Novartis; and DuPont swallowed Pioneer Hi-Bred earlier this year. Seed Industry Top 10 Company 1998 Seed Sales (US) Millions ======= ============================= DuPont (USA) $1,835+ Monsanto (USA) $1,800 (estimate) Novartis(Switzerland) $1,000 Groupe Limagrain (France) $733 Savia S.A. de C.V. (Mexico) $428 AstraZeneca (UK and Neth.) $412 KWS AG (Germany) $370 AgriBiotech, Inc. (USA) $370 Sakata (Japan) $349* Takii (Japan) $300* (estimate) Top 10 Agrochemical Companies Company 1998 Pesticide Sales (U.S.) Millions ======= ==================================== Aventis (Germany) $4,676 Novartis (Switzerland) $4,152 Monsanto (USA) $4,032 DuPont (USA) $3,156 AstraZeneca (UK and Neth.) $2,897 Bayer (Germany) $2,273 American Home Products $2,194 Dow (USA) $2,132 BASF (Germany) $1,945 Makhteshim-Agan (Israel) $801 *Note: 1998 sales figures were not available for some seed companies Consolidation: Vital Statistics % The top 10 seed companies control approximately 33% of the US$23 billion seed trade worldwide. % The top three seed companies (DuPont, Monsanto, Novartis) account for 20% of the global seed trade. % The top 10 agrochemical companies control 91% of the $31 billion agrochemical market. % The top five Gene Giants (AstraZeneca, DuPont, Monsanto, Novartis and Aventis) account for nearly two-thirds of the global pesticide market (60%), almost one-quarter (23%) of the global seed market, and virtually 100% of the transgenic seed market. RAFI, the Rural Advancement Foundation International, is an international civil society organization headquartered in Canada. RAFI is dedicated to the conservation and sustainable use of biodiversity, and to the socially responsible development of technologies useful to rural societies. RAFI is concerned about the loss of agricultural biodiversity, and the impact of intellectual property on farmers and food security. RAFI's newly updated chart, Seed Industry Consolidation: Who Owns Whom? will be available on RAFI's Web site, http://www.rafi.org. Source: Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) News Release, September 3, 1999. Contact: RAFI (Rural Advancement Foundation Int'l.) 110 Osborne St., Suite 202, Winnipeg MB R3L 1Y5, Canada; phone (204) 453-5259; fax (204) 925-8034; email rafi@rafi.org; Web site http://www.rafi.org. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 8 21:19:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28768 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:19:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28732 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:46:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28720 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:46:45 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:45:47 -0500 X-ROUTED: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:45:46 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.82] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 13211e3c ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:45:30 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990908193618.0094c490@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:36:18 -0500 To: Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2610 This is exactly the kind of uncertainity that the authors of this hoax were hoping to engender in the general population. I mean no offense to you personally. Science is now so much the realm of specialists that the typical citizen does not have time or access to the information to track down every piece of BS coming down the pike from the Science for Hire camp. This is the advange of having all kinds of money and no morals. This is the biotechs sweet revenge for the European resistance (and growing US resistance) to having Franken Foods shoveled down their throats. Everybody has to eat and few people in the industrialized world have the time, land or knowledge to grow and prepare any significant portion of their own food. In other parts of the world, landlords or corporations and their allies control much of the arible land and now increasing, the water supplies. Thus, if you can sully the repuatation of your competition (organic food) to your gene-altered food, most consumers will have little choice but to shutup and eat what they are told to eat. Welcome to the "New World Order". Mike Miller Ps. I have copied below Misha's research into the first airing of this "report" for your easy review. >This is really bothering me. I know the question came up on sanet a >few weeks ago, but did we ever establish whether or not this study >exists? I know Dennis Avery was touting such a study at the very >beginning of this year. He was quoted in the Wall Street Journal, >and it was picked up by the Times. But Times food/consumer writer >Marian Burros debunked the whole thing, explaining that there WAS NO >SUCH STUDY! (I think it was specifically supposed to be about e coli >contamination.) > >So is this another study? Did the CDC take Dennis' cue and __do__ a >study? Does anyone out there know? > >> >> Indeed, agronomists point to >>Centers for Disease Control data showing fresh, unprocessed organic >>foodstuffs may have a higher incidence of food-borne pathogens. From: mgs23@pacbell.net Date: 28 Aug 99 01:02:34 -0600 Subject: Re: FW: Organic and food safety Howdy, all-- Andy wrote: >It would be interesting to track some of these sources down. This may be a >revival of the story that was going around a few month ago RE: CDC's numbers >on organic and foodborne illness. This article comes from FSnet, a daily >news feed out of Guelph. Andy, it's kinda related, and here's how I see it--not, perhaps, in content...but certainly in information strategy. > > From FSnet 8/26/99 > > > > ORGANIC FOOD CREATES HIGHER RISK FOR FOOD POISONING > > Aug. 25 /99 > > US Newswire Here's the original story. http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0825-119.htm Do you notice that there is no source listed on this item? U.S. Newswire http://www.usnewswire.com is not the source. It is the distribution service. USN describes itself thus: It's a pass-along service.This service takes news feeds from Whoever and sends them out with the imprimatur of "U.S. Newswire." They have a "standard of acceptability," but they do not edit, fact-check, or source-check. They broadcast. OK, that's their niche. So what if an item comes across, like this organic food one, and there's no source, and people pass it along as though it were verified? One could choose to believe it, particularly if predisposed to believe that organic food is bad. Or one could be skeptical. As Andy (justifiably) was. And then some little info-termite has to sit down on a date-less Friday evening and check it. :^) My pleasure. OK. If you recall, in January of this year, a U.S. Newswire item came thru various channels bearing the title "Sierra Club Executive Endorses High-Yield Agriculture." It was un-sourced, but turned out to be a Hudson Institute (Dennis Avery's organization) press release, distributed via USN. At that time, I concluded that USN oughtn't be considered a completely reputable source, for the above reasons. In a case like this one, USN has the out of saying, hey, *we* didn't produce this news, our MEMBERS did. And the member organizations know that their partisan "reportage" is masked with the U.S. Newswire dateline. I reported this on SANET. http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/30-html/0356.html I have a call in to Bill McCarren, founder of US Newswire; we'll see if he responds to my request for clarification on USN's requirements for source identification. Now let's go on. > > Marc Morano > > WASHINGTON -- An investigation by the nationally syndicated television > > newsmagazine program American Investigator "Nationally syndicated television newsmagazine program"? Criminy, so were the McCarthy hearings, when you come down to it. (Ooops...I just dated myself--were the McCarthy hearings on TV? I wasn't born yet.) But anyway, hold that reference, please, because I'll come back to it. As for American Investigator? I never heard of it. But then I haven't turned on my TV to receive broadcasts since moving to San Francisco--a few movies and Bill Moyers' interview with George Lucas. So I did an Alta Vista search on that phrase, and came up with a bunch of hits, the first ten or so of which 404'd (file not found). They all had a common URL/domain name: http://www.freecongress.org I truncated one of the URLs and got the home page of The Free Congress Foundation. "A non-profit, tax-exempt organization." Washington, DC. In their own words: "Free Congress Foundation is politically conservative, but it is more than that: it is also culturally conservative. Most think tanks talk about tax rates or the environment or welfare policy and occasionally we do also. But our main focus is on the Culture War. Will America return to the culture that made it great, our traditional, Judeo-Christian, Western culture? Or will we continue the long slide into the cultural and moral decay of political correctness? If we do, America, once the greatest nation on earth, will become no less than a third world country." Source: http://www.freecongress.org/fcf/ Apart from the fact that this confused me--here I thought that the cultures that made America great were African (given that it was enslaved African agriculturalists and their free descendant industrial laborers who built the food system and industrial base of the colonies)--this rang a bell for me. The founder and head of this organization is Paul Weyrich, one of the organizers of the ultra-right-wing cabal once the darlings but now emerging as the plague of the Republican Party. Seems the GOP is no longer politically correct enough for Weyrich and his cabalistas, and so he/they are trying to destroy it in his pursuit of a utopian conservatism that never, ever, compromises on anything, and destroys any individual Republican lawmaker who vacillates in the slightest from that standard of perfection. Republican lawmakers who've been targeted by his wrath (including that leftist enemy of Western civilization, Orrin Hatch) have designated him as divisive, paranoid, negative, pessimistic, temperamental, and reactionary. Hey, I'm just passing along what I've read in conservative journals and heard from conservative friends. I've never met the man. Interestingly, he is from Wisconsin, ja hey. In Wisconsin, side by side with diverse compassionate, courageous Progressives like Bob LaFollette and Russ Feingold and Erwin Knoll and John Nichols and Tammy Baldwin, we seem to create snickerdoodle political reactionaries whose communications appear to reflect a low sense of self-esteem, a fascination with their own voices, a taste for demagoguery and extremism, and a spirit mean enough to eat all the chrome off of a 1955 Olds Super 88. Weyrich is one of the favored--though perhaps falling out of favor, since helping bring Newt Gingrich down in last year's putsch--talking heads of the ultraconservative far-right. He has dabbled in ultraconservative telecommunications enterprises, and was one of the founders of NET, an intentionally ideologically driven public affairs network, founded in 1993, and I believe now defunct, or anyway moribund. He left it because he said there was a "difference of viewpoint" on how to conduct the network. For starters, under his leadership, it was hemorrhaging money, and nobody was watching the programming. Though TCI's John Malone was really eager to carry it. Is Weyrich ringing any bells yet? No? Does the Heritage Foundation? He started it in 1973 with a $1/4-million gift from Joseph Coors, of the Coors beer empire. Today, the Heritage Foundation has an annual budget of $25 million. They spend it on research and policy initiatives. $25 million buys a lot of Free Congress, eh? So. The Free Congress Foundation, founded and headed up by Paul Weyrich, produces, among other information products, a TV show called "The American Investigator." "The only hard-hitting investigative news program in America today that investigates stories the establishment would rather sweep under the carpet." This was news to me, by golly. Welcome to the establishment, organic farmers!!!!! It was a long wait, do you suppose we'll all get rich now? Yep, I can see where organic farming would contribute to "the long slide into the cultural and moral decay of political correctness." Nothing like clean food, a good work ethic, a sense of stewardship, and a strong sense of community to grease those skids. So. Watch those sources, be alert for red flags. The Free Congress Foundation is an organization for which "news" and "spin" are indistinguishable. It has a clearly stated political mission, and admits that its "reportage" is targeted to carry that out. U.S. Newswire makes no distinction between those pixels and others. And so we come to this story of organic food being unsafe because "Organic means a food was grown in animal manure." Oh, golly. I laughed, then went out and bought a pint of Ben and Jerry's "Bovinity Divinity" ice cream at my neighborhood store. Half a pint later , I returned to a more ruminant state, and realized I felt deep concern about this story. It's bonky as a jar full of grasshoppers. The sort of thing I'd've used in my communications survey courses to teach young folks how to spot and analyze misleading reportage. That doesn't mean it can't be highly damaging. OK, one last thing: > Also on record is chief of the CDC's Foodborne > illness division Robert V. Tauxe, addressing pathogens that thrive in > manure, "Organic means a food was grown in animal manure." Here is a late 1997 article by Tauxe on emerging infectious diseases: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol3no4/tauxe.htm Nowhere in this piece does he say a thing about organic growing methods. In it, he raises quite valid epidemiological concerns. Here is the abstract: "The epidemiology of foodborne disease is changing. New pathogens have emerged, and some have spread worldwide. Many, including Salmonella, Escherichia coli O157:H7, Campylobacter, and Yersinia enterocolitica, have reservoirs in healthy food animals, from which they spread to an increasing variety of foods. These pathogens cause millions of cases of sporadic illness and chronic complications, as well as large and challenging outbreaks over many states and nations. Improved surveillance that combines rapid subtyping methods, cluster identification, and collaborative epidemiologic investigation can identify and halt large, dispersed outbreaks. Outbreak investigations and case-control studies of sporadic cases can identify sources of infection and guide the development of specific prevention strategies. Better understanding of how pathogens persist in animal reservoirs is also critical to successful long-term prevention. In the past, the central challenge of foodborne disease lay in preventing the contamination of human food with sewage or animal manure. In the future, prevention of foodborne disease will increasingly depend on controlling contamination of feed and water consumed by the animals themselves." If epidemiologists are observing changes in outbreak patterns, that's something we in the organics and sustainable ag community need to know, from an impartial perspective...and it's going to raise a bunch of research needs, as well. Also I searched CDC's site on his name, and found 187 documents; needless to say, even a date-less Friday night would be no excuse for reading them all. But I smell something here, and it isn't fish. Did Tauxe really say that? Anyone have CDC connections, who can fact-check this? I couldn't turn up contact information for him. > Dr. Cliver ["a food scientist from University of Southern > California-Davis"]. said, "We can tell you how a hamburger is very > well done but we can't tell you when manure is very well done." Oh, HONey--shaaaaaa. There are times when it's *perfectly* clear when manure is very well done. peace misha PS--A Harvard student has put a copy of a /New Republic/ article on-line; it profiles Weyrich: "Robespierre of the Right: what I ate at the revolution"; /The New Republic/, 217:17 (October 27, 1997), p. 20-. By David Grann. http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~mcloughl/network/history.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oh, your hands are connected to your arms, your arms are connected to your shoulders, your shoulders are connected to your body, your body is connected to your head. Oh, your head is connected to... nothing... and that explains a lot. --Red Green To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 01:32:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02866 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03818 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:06:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03731 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FHS00MG10T045@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:42:26 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Frontiers of genetic research To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2611 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ News and Features Agricultural and Consumer Press Service College of Agricultural and Life Sciences 440 Henry Mall University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison WI 53706 (608) 262-1461 For Immediate Release For More Information: Richard Amasino (608) 262-4704 amasino@biochem.wisc.edu UW-MADISON'S AMASINO WINS ALEXANDER VON HUMBOLDT AWARD Richard M. Amasino, a plant molecular biologist in the Department of Biochemistry at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, has been named the recipient of the 1999 Alexander von Humboldt Award. Amasino will receive the award at a ceremony Oct. 27 in Madison, Wis. Amasino is being recognized for his studies of processes that regulate flowering time in plants and the mechanisms that control senescence, the process by which leaves age and drop from plants. Those findings help explain how plants regulate important activities; they have far-reaching implications for agriculture. The Alexander von Humboldt Award is one of the most prestigious awards for agricultural research in the United States. Named in honor of the 19th-century German naturalist and geographer, the award is presented each year to an individual considered to have made the most significant contribution to agriculture in the previous five years. Amasino and his colleagues recently identified a key gene that determines whether plants behave as annuals or biennials. Annuals produce flowers their first summer; biennials, such as cabbage, carrots, onions and beets, produce flowers the summer after they've been exposed to prolonged cold. Amasino and his group also created a gene that blocks senescence. They demonstrated that plants with that gene produced more plant tissue and seeds than control plants. Scientists at universities and companies around the world are following up on the discovery, which has the potential to improve agricultural crops, such as alfalfa, corn, soybean and vegetables, as well as ornamental plants and cut flowers. Amasino has been on the UW-Madison faculty since 1985, and has received other honors including a Shaw Scholar Award and a Presidential Young Investigator Award. Dr. Alfred Toepfer, an internationally known grain merchant from Hamburg, Germany, established the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation in New York City in 1969. Under Toepfer's leadership, the foundation's board of trustees established the Alexander von Humboldt Award in 1974. The award includes a $15,000 cash prize, a medallion, a certificate, and a $5,000 scholarship for a student to study agriculture in Germany. Amasino is the third professor from the UW-Madison College of Agricultural and Life Sciences to receive the award since its inception in 1975. Neal First, an animal scientist, received the award in 1987 and Winston Brill, a former professor of bacteriology, received the award in 1979. ### Amasino von Humboldt 9/99 Writer: George Gallepp (608) 262-3636 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 01:32:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02870 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03780 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:06:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03730 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FHS00MG10T045@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:42:20 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Seed industry, who owns whom? To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2612 Howdy, all-- Thought some of you might be interested in RAFI's updated chart on who owns whom in the seed industry. http://www.rafi.org/pr/release36a.html peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn. --Ray Kinsella (in /Field of Dreams/) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 01:33:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02879 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03669 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:06:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03555 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FHS00MG10T045@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:19:35 -0700 From: Misha Subject: New variant/variant CJD case rate/UK To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2613 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest you prion-watchers. Via the ProMED list. I had a bit of trouble understanding the table, with the loss of formatting in ASCII text. I think it's the first vertical column that's headered "Year," and the second "Referrals." Then the others fall under the five subcategories of "Deaths of definite and probable cases in the UK." Please note: these are ONLY nvCJD cases in the UK, apparently. Please note that the source "M2 Communications Ltd." is not identified by the person who posted this. And please note the change in SEAC nomenclature from "new variant CJD" to "variant CJD." Some folks have e-mailed me in the past to ask what "Iatrogenic" means. It's a word that comes from the Greek /iatros/, meaning physician (< /iasthai/, to heal), and -genic, origin. In other words, illness caused by a physician. In a slightly broader sense, it's used to mean any illness that people get from health care providers. For example, exposure to hepatitis thru blood transfusions; infection with "super viruses" (highly antibiotic-resistant viral strains) while in hospital; or exposure to Creutzfeld-Jakob disease through corneal transplants, dura mater (cerebral tissue) graft, growth hormone administration, neurosurgery, etc. I ran across a reference that might further interest some of you: a joint workshop, apparently in June, 1998, on transmissible spongiform encephalopathies sponsored by the University of MD and the FDA: http://www.life.umd.edu/jifsan/tse/ FYI. peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CJD (NEW VARIANT), CASE RATE - UK (03) ************************************** Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:37:31 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: M2 Communications Ltd 09/06/1999 13:59 (edited) The Department of Health is today issuing the latest monthly table, giving the numbers of deaths of definite and probable cases of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in the UK. Year Referrals Deaths of definite and probable cases in the UK Sporadic latrogenic familial GSS vCJD Total 1985 - 26 1 1 0 - 28 1986 - 26 0 0 0 - 26 1987 - 23 0 0 1 - 24 1988 - 22 1 1 0 - 24 1989 - 28 2 2 0 - 32 1990 53 28 5 0 0 - 33 1991 75 32 1 3 0 - 36 1992 96 43 2 5 1 - 51 1993 78 38 4 2 2 - 46 1994 116 51 1 4 3 - 59 1995 87 35 4 2 3 3 47 1996 134 40 4 2 4 10 60 1997 161 59 6 4 1 10 80 1998 150 54 3 3 0 16 76 1999* 104 20 2 0 0 4 26 * To 31 July 1999. Total number of definite and probable cases of vCJD = 43. 1. The next table will be published on Monday 4 October 1999. 2. At its meeting on 18 March 1999 the Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee (SEAC) agreed variant CJD (vCJD) should now be used in preference to nvCJD in line with current practice in many scientific journals. Referrals: This is a simple count of all the cases which have been referred to the National CJD Surveillance Unit for further investigation in the year in question. CJD may be no more than suspected; about half the cases referred in the past have turned out not to be CJD. Cases are notified to the Unit from a variety of sources including neurologists, neuropathologists, neurophysiologists, general physicians, psychiatrists, electroencephalogram (EEG) departments etc. As a safety net, death certificates coded under the specific rubrics 046.1 and 331.9 in the 9th ICD Revisions are obtained from the Office for National Statistics in England and Wales, the General Register Office for Scotland and the General Register Office for Northern Ireland. Deaths: These columns show the number of deaths which have occurred in definite and probable cases of all types of CJD and GSS in the year shown. The figure includes both cases referred to the Unit for investigation while the patient was still alive and those where CJD was only discovered post mortem (including a few cases picked up by the Unit from death certificates). There is therefore no read across from these columns to the referrals column. The figures will be subject to retrospective adjustment as diagnoses are confirmed. Definite and Probable: This refers to the diagnostic status of cases. In definite cases the diagnosis will have been pathologically confirmed, in most cases by post mortem examination of brain tissue (rarely it may be possible to establish a definite diagnosis by brain biopsy while the patient is still alive). Probable cases have not been confirmed pathologically; some cases are never confirmed pathologically because a post mortem examination does not take place (for instance where the relatives of the patient refuse consent) and these cases remain permanently in the probable category. Sporadic: Classic CJD cases with typical EEG and brain pathology. Sporadic cases appear to occur spontaneously with no identifiable cause and account for 85% of all cases. Probable sporadic: Cases with a history of rapidly progressive dementia, typical EEG and at least two of the following clinical features; myoclonus, visual or cerebellar signs, pyramidal/extrapyramidal signs or akinetic mutism. Iatrogenic: Where infection with classic CJD has occurred accidentally as the result of a medical procedure. All UK cases have resulted from treatment with human derived pituitary growth hormones or from grafts using dura mater (a membrane lining the skull). Familial: Cases occurring in families associated with mutations in the PrP gene (10 - 15% of cases). GSS: Gertsmann-Straussler-Scheinker syndrome - an exceedingly rare inherited autosomal dominant disease, typified by chronic progressive ataxia and terminal dementia. The clinical duration is from 2 to 10 years, much longer than for CJD. vCJD: Variant CJD, the hitherto unrecognised variant of CJD discovered by the National CJD Surveillance Unit and reported in The Lancet on 6 April 1996. This is characterised clinically by a progressive neuropsychiatric disorder leading to ataxia, dementia and myoclonus (or chorea) without the typical EEG appearance of CJD. Neuropathology shows marked spongiform change and extensive florid plaques throughout the brain. Definite vCJD cases still alive: These will be cases where the diagnosis has been pathologically confirmed (by brain biopsy). Probable vCJD: Cases in which post-mortem (or brain biopsy) has not been carried out and which fulfill preliminary criteria for the clinical diagnosis of vCJD. These criteria cannot yet be fully validated because of the limited experience of vCJD. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 02:40:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03617 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA18224 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:13:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net [207.172.11.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18160 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kenn001b-p2-066.cybertours.com (maxam.bluefin.net [205.162.64.241]) by gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult.n14767) with SMTP id CAA23480 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909090612.CAA23480@gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net> X-Sender: stevem@pop.nh.ultranet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: stevem@nh.ultranet.com (Stephen Maxam) Subject: Re: guinea fowl Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2614 >1) Is there some way, short of standing guard all day on his front >porch for my friend (who, incidentaly, admits "I love those guys") to >keep them from hanging out and pooping in front of his front door? >2) Is there some way to keep them from plucking all the feathers >from the one on the bottom of the pecking order? > Any suggestions out there? >Best regards, Edna P'raps here's an answer: In Newton Tolman's book, "North of Monadnock", an old timer gave out with one of the finest examples of Yankee rhetoric I've ever seen. When asked what would make a porcupine want to chew up some old boards, he answered, "I guess the critters just know whereof them things be." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 04:32:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04349 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 04:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA29308 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 03:55:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29247 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 03:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00782; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:55:20 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15128; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:56:02 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 9 Sep 99 09:49:30 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 9 Sep 99 09:49:15 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: James Kotcon , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:49:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Breeding and speciation (was food labeling) Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <14656E950EF@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2615 hello james, > I do not believe any consensus exists among scientists as >to how much genetic divergence is needed to name a new species. In >some bacteria, a single gene difference will lead to a new species >name, while in other bacteria, as much as 30 % of the genome may >vary within the same "species". it might even be more. take X triticale for example, sth. like an interbreed between rye and wheat. at first you get about 50:50 for the relation of wheat:rye, but if you breed this line and cross it with a pure wheat, you get something like 75:25, or if crossed with a pure rye, a relation of 25:75. i once asked a breeder: is that still a real triticale? and i heard a loud YES. when i asked: if you go on with mixing the lines and you got just only 10% of rye, that's still a triticale ? again a definite YES. when i asked: "what about 5 %?" he said: "depends on which 5%, you would have difficulties to see it in a single plant, but certainly you can distiniguish them, when you compare it with a pure wheat or pure rye." so what he said, was that the divergence in a "true" triticale can lie at least between 5 and 95% and it's still considered a X triticale. Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 04:52:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04536 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 04:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA20637 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 04:23:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20615 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 04:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01293; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:23:33 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15479; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:23:43 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 9 Sep 99 10:17:12 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 9 Sep 99 10:16:13 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: Andy Clark , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:16:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Avery on global warming; GE tofu; French farmers Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <146C9DF04AA@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id EAA20616 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2616 hello andy, >I was struck by three (unrelated--it all seems related!) letters to >the editor of the Washington Post on 8/28/99: >Dennis Avery tells us we have nothing to fear from global >warming; up to now even in europe almost everyone knows, that avery is the self-declared expert #1 on every item ;-)) but: there are indeed indications, that some northern countries might be among the few winners of a global warming. that's why by the slowdown of agreements for the 25% co2 reductions by the american delegations in rio and rome you did not make friends with a lot of other countries (esp. indonesia, tonga islands and the netherlands). so it depends on how you define the word "WE" (from a view from abroad: does that mean "YOU" or really "WE" ??) --------------------------------------- Global Warming Bad? Not to Some Farmers In Alaska's Far North. The Wall Street Journal, June 10, 1998, ppA1,A8. Farmers in Alaska such as Dennis Green and Scott L. Hollembaek are experiencing some profitable benefits from the rising temperatures of the past three decades. Green was able to harvest a surprise crop of oat hay last year after his usual oat crop. The extra crop earned him $75,000, almost all of which was profit. Weather analysts say that the growing season in this area of northern Alaska has lengthened by about 20%. Also, the average temperature of winter nights has risen from 50 or 60 degrees below zero to 20 or 30 below. "Hell, we're out there running around in our T-shirts," said Hollembaek, a neighbor of Green. Hollembaek's cattle and bison have been able to survive the winter on a smaller amount of the expensive feed that is necessary for them to keep up their body heat. Hollenbaek's own heating bills have dropped as well, and he only went through 10 cords of firewood at $50 each last winter, rather than his usual 20 cords. Areas near the Arctic circle are more dramatically affected by climate change than other regions of the world. Warming temperatures cause the areas' snow cover to melt, which then reflects less sunlight away from the earth, allowing for even further warming. In the late seventies government programs were established to attract farmers to Alaska from other states. Many of them seized the easy loan money and tried to grow the same crops they grew in "the lower 48." Farming in Alaska is harsh, though, and an early September snow can stay on the ground all winter, ruining an entire crop. Most of the farmers who came to Alaska for the program gave up early and left. With the recent warming trend, however, more people are trying to make it by farming in Alaska. Popular crops include barley, grass for lawns in Anchorage, and bison that will become low-cholesterol steaks. Green is experimenting with a reindeer herd to make reindeer sausage. But there are down sides to the warming trend, too. The permafrost is thawing in places, which is causing roadways and construction to sag. Caribou herds are also suffering because the moss that they live on is not thriving in the warmer temperatures. And insect pests, such as spruce beetles, are able to migrate further north, now. Not all of the farmers in the region even believe that global warming is happening. William Sutton, a transplanted farmer from Idaho, says, "Thirty years ain't enough to tell you anything. This is all Al Gore smoke-and-mirrors BS." ------------------------------------- >a tofu company defends its product that has only 0.1 >percent GMO materials; let's face it, although it might look like the fight about gmo in agriculture seems to tend in the direction of public refusal, we are VERY far from a real stop of mixing conventional with ge food. ask any breeder you really know quite good enough to be honest to you an he will tell you, that there is almost no way to differenciate a conventional bred variety from one injected with strange genome and that it quite easy to cheat. where should be the difference ? chromosomes are a sequence of genes, which are altered and mixed with other genes by the breeding process and if breeders do not force the process up to the extreme (injecting specific and already identified codons from other species) and do not tell the authorities of their gene lab work, noone would be able to prove otherwise... just how ??? it would not be THAT simple as i said here in 2 sentences, but you can perfectly well fake a breeding line and the further breeding process in 4 to 5 years.... hell, you cannot control everything, esp. with the trend of "lean government". [next article] >Climate, Castles, Cathedrals >Luckily, we can look at the prospect of warming through the >historical record, not an uncertain computer model. The answer is >that we'd return to the finest weather in recorded history, the Medieval Climate Optimum (950-1300 A.D.). ahh, another #1 expert.. the "finest" weather for whom ? >All of the famous cathedrals and castles in Europe were built >during that period because people had time to spare from working >in the fields. just call it plain rubbish ! noone of the workers had spare time, they simply HAD TO HAVE "spare" time for god's honor (and forced a little bit by their landlord's hellebardes and swords's bearers and their bishop's fulmination of excommunication, if they did not obey immediately) there were no longlasting pattern in food production and hunger from the 12th to the 18th century. famines came and went and they were mostly influenced by wars and huge armies occupying a country and seizing every food they got. if it was a "standing army" they robbed the farmers continuously and brougth the seized food into their own countries (tax, called "the tenth", though it often was more than half), if they passed through, they devasted the fields by the tactic of "burnt soil". [if anyone in doubt: literature available and i'm willing to give avery a short lesson in ancient european church history. if i look out of my window in the institute, i have a perfect view on the oldest cathedrale in europe just 500 m away] >Storms were fewer and milder. The polar ice caps did not melt. >There was no wave of wildlife species extinction. >DENNIS T. AVERY >Swoope, Va. ahh, now i see, that i'm wrong, it's the same expert as before (just on another topic)..... meteorologist will tell him, that it's quite the other way round. the warmer, the more storms.... assurance companies will tell the same story.. [3rd article] >The French farmers protesting American hormones in imported beef >are probably only sorry they didn't think of it first a strawman, hormones simply are NOT allowed AND they are one of the few things, which are controlled *rigourously* by diaries & the governmental control system.. statement of the EC: Risks to Human Health from Hormone Residues in Bovine Meat Products: http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg24/health/sc/scv/out21_en.html >produits de qualite I can only gag on the enormous amounts of >fertilizer, insecticide, herbicide and you-name-it-cide I see >them spreading everywhere, polluting the groundwater and >endangering public health throughout its beautiful country. as often, partially true (but not as global as cited). whenever i've been in switzerland, austria and the french midi in early spring, i was very surprised of the intense green colors of the meadows even in high altitudes (when it's still cold and not yet the time for intense growth). i did not wonder anymore, when i saw the big tractors carrying huge barrels of manure bringing up to the high moutains. there it's spread by huge pumps onto the meadows and sometimes even onto the snow. result: early grass growth, but also high leaching into the groundwater. i do not know the situation in france (it should be the same, because subsidies are paid from bruxelles, not from paris) but in switzerland and austria those mountain farmers are paid subsidaries up to 90% of the average income, because by cultivating the mountain slopes these farmers are preventing landslips, people in the valley are extremely afraid of. (if you do now mow the meadows, the snow tends to slip in dangerous avalanches like on a sheet of ice. if you have ever been in the alpes, you know that the countries there consist of either mountains or valleys, but very few flat regions. that's why the non-farmers are all too willing to pay the remaining few mountain farmers). so farmers there are not just paid for producing milk, cheese and meat, but more for preventing major catastrophies, these countries and their economies are very vulnerable against. france is different, because the mountains there make only a minor part of the country. on the other side prices for agricultural products are lower in france, so the pressure for farmers to use fertilizers and pesticides is much higher. the organic system in france is quite well developed, also in the mountain regions (haute provene & drme). at least, that's what i was told by officials from the department of sane.. so the reporter cited might very well have told the truth, but it's the same as everywhere else: small farming (mostly selfsufficient and older people, who do not have the money to buy big tractors) and big farming makes a huge difference in management.. unfortunately the younger people are heading to the cities for jobs in a bank and the old farmers get older. so the government tries to keep the younger ones up in the mountainfarming business with high subsidaries. besides that: try to tell anyone in switzerland, that there is no global warming and they stare at you, as if you were a madman just fled from an asylum. switzerland has lost more than 40% !! of its glaciers in less than 80 years.. result: the mountains are collapsing and swiss government has to spent more and more money in building expensive steel and concrete barriers in the mountains to prevent gigantic landslips. nowadays they have to spent about 8% of their BNP just in barrier building, repairs of streets and houses. tendancy: quickly rising. switzerland is a marvellous country. but last year i spent a holiday in a valley, just in the shadow of a mountain, which the geologic experts expect to come down in the next 10-20 years, at first i did not sleep that calm as in a usual holiday and get a feeling of the risk of farming in that region... bankruptcy is a nasty thing, but being buried under millions of tons of stones is worse. klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 09:00:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06606 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14258 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:26:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from borg.cc.vt.edu (borg.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.242]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14126 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: karenm@vt.edu Received: by borg.cc.vt.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:25:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: who will control the gene pool? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:25:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2617 The following is an excerpt from Barry Flinchbaugh's talk. Unfortunately, that's all that was reported about the impact of who controls the gene pool. Is this an issue we should be concerned about with the next farm bill and how do we have an impact on what happens? The full text of the article is at http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/news/topstory.htm Released: August 27, 1999 Flinchbaugh: Gene Pool Control Seen More Influential On 21st Century Ag Than Farm Legislation MANHATTAN, Kan.- Farmers are beginning to think about the next U.S. farm bill due in 2002, but interest rates and who controls the gene pool will be more important to agriculture 20 years from now than will any farm bill, said Kansas State University economist, Barry Flinchbaugh. Karen Mundy Communications Coordinator Rural Economic Analysis Program Department of Agricultural and Applied Economics (0401) Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-9443 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 09:10:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06786 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24769 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:42:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24763 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04169 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id IAA21504; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D7ABC5.8A49F7DD@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:44:53 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Breeding and speciation (was food labeling) References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEEF@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2618 "Wilson, Dale" wrote: > Jim, > > > I do not believe any consensus exists among > > scientists as to how much genetic divergence > > is needed to name a new species. > > It seems like there is consensus that calling something a different species > hinges on reproductive isolation. The isolation may result from actual > reproductive incompatibility (ie, genetic difference) or spatial-temporal I agree. One species concept (especially for bacteria) states that genetic diversity (measured by bands of DNA present on gels from PCR electrophoresis) must have at least 70% compatability. However, DNA from one species of bacteria can get into another species through conjugation, > In any case, the meaning of "species" depends on the context. In the > breeding context, only cross-compatibility is relevant. > > Dale Species also depends on the scale on which you look. for _most_ multi-cellular organisms, interbreeding to produce viable offspring is a major component of the "Species Concept" (Actually the Concept of the "Species Concept" is often taught in different classes, and differs to some extent in every class!). However, with single celled organisms, and some multi-cellular organisms (esp. fungi), sexual reproduction is rare or absent. . . The correct answer the the original question is. . . "It Depends. . . " -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 09:54:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07751 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04540 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:58:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f140.hotmail.com [216.32.181.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04403 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 92338 invoked by uid 0); 9 Sep 1999 12:56:47 -0000 Message-ID: <19990909125647.92337.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 24.95.173.142 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 05:56:46 PDT X-Originating-IP: [24.95.173.142] From: "Lester Loam" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:56:46 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2619 I will follow our friend Misha's example and dig a little bit on this group. But I'm sure I won't be as thorough as she would be. If you go to the Consumer Alert homepage at consumeralert.org you'll read right at the top (count the red flags as you read): THE FREE-MARKET CONSUMER GROUP "Consumer Alert is everything that most other self-styled consumerist organizations are not: scholarly, scientific, honest, and motivated not by self-interest, but by the public interest." --Dr. Henry Miller: Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University. They say they have members in all 50 states. But I'd like to know more about their constituency. The who we are page tells you that they are a Washington, D.C. based nonprofit with the goal of: Consumer Alert's mission is to enhance understanding and appreciation of the consumer benefits of a market economy so that individuals and policymakers rely more on private rather than government approaches to consumer concerns. So in other words, they want the folks who sell us stuff to police themselves. I am reminded of the astronaut who said that at lift off the only thing he could think of is that he was sitting on top of thousands of parts all built by the lowest bidder. Thankfully, their were some government imposed minimum standards in the specifications. The what we do page gives the usual list of educational activities like newsletters, &etc. They also have a consumer coalition group on global warming with the cute name "Cooler Heads Coalition." I'll bet they use loaded words like hysteria a lot in their news releases, too. I didn't go very deep into their site. But I wanted to find out who is behind this group. I didn't get any answers in my limited surfing. When I clicked on the link to their staff and advisors I got a 404 (file not found) error. Very interesting. Lester >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:55:28 -0400 (EDT) >From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." >Subject: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH > >PRN CONSUMER ALERT: >Sep8 1999 5:21 > >WASHINGTON, Sept. 7 /PRNewswire/ -- The following op-ed piece is by Frances >B. Smith, Executive Director of Consumer Alert: >Archer Daniels Midland Co. -- fond of touting itself as "Supermarket to the >World" -- should change its slogan to "Specialty Market to the Rich of the >World." ADM recently warned its grain suppliers they would have to >segregate crops produced from biotechnology from those produced >conventionally. Not only would this redundancy cause prices to rise >significantly for consumers on a whole range of food products, but >reactions like ADM's could spread and grind to a halt the potential >benefits that biotechnology could bring to millions of starving and >malnourished people in developing countries. ADM's action came in the wake >of hysteria in Europe fueled by anti-biotechnology activists and fanned by >tabloid-type media coverage. The anti- biotech campaigns have moved quickly >to the U.S. and Canada. Leading the charge was Greenpeace, whose first >targets were baby food producers -- Gerber, for one -- whom they scared >into promising "never ever to do it again, mommy," that is, to use food >produced through biotechnology in its baby foods. Gerber is going to use >"organic" food instead, even though there is no scientific evidence that >organically grown food is safer, purer, or more healthful than >conventionally grown or bio-engineered food. Indeed, agronomists point to >Centers for Disease Control data showing fresh, unprocessed organic >foodstuffs may have a higher incidence of food-borne pathogens. Some large >companies before Gerber had already caved in to the fear-mongering >campaigns against foods produced through biotechnology, even though they >know and have stated publicly that there is no scientific justification for >their actions.As ADM said in its statement, the company "remains supportive >of the science and safety" of bioengineered crops, but it was worried about >customers abroad who are concerned about gene-altered crops. ADM's >buckling under, however, speaks more loudly than its "supportive" words to >customers and consumers and is likely to provide fertile ground for >activists to make further inroads.Indeed, Reuters quotes European activists >as declaring "victory" in response to ADM's cave-in. Critical public health >benefits that biotechnology can offer could be set back through companies' >playing into the hands of Greenpeace, et al.If biotechnology research >proceeds at its current pace, the human and environmental benefits of >agricultural biotechnology could be dramatic and widespread in the near >future. That would mean higher crop yields and a likely reduction in >pesticide usage. Biotechnology is the best hope we have of meeting the >growing food demands of a world population that will increase by at least >50 percent in the next several years.If we don't increase yields on the >land already being farmed, the alternative is to put more land into >production -- lands that now represent forests and wildlife areas. Among >the possibilities of biotechnology are drought resistant crops and plants >resistant to aluminum toxicity, which cuts crop yields in vast regions of >the world, primarily in developing countries. Enhanced nutritional levels >of staple crops can prevent diseases that are life-threatening or >debilitating. In just one example, gene-altered rice has been enhanced with >Vitamin A and could help eradicate blindness, caused by a deficiency of >that vitamin, in millions of children. Currently, consumers know little >about those benefits. Activist groups that are campaigning against this new >technology in countries across the world ignore the positive and instead >promote images of fear and dread to depict the products of biotechnology. >It is not a food safety issue, however. It is an issue of a new technology >that rubs against the values and tastes of some, who, in satisfying their >own preferences, would deny biotechnology's benefits to the world. > >SOURCEConsumer Alert >- -0- 09/07/1999 >/CONTACT:Fran Smith of Consumer Alert, 202-467-5809, or e-mail, >Info@consumeralert.org/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 10:56:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01132 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01704 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:42:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01683 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp116.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.116]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D9ECA61754; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006701befac8$fffc98a0$749144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: , Subject: Fw: effects of gmo's on organic farming Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:41:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2620 . ----- Original Message ----- From: Cheryl Kemp To: Sam Statham ; Ian Reed ; Betty Khoo ; Welink ; Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:45 PM Subject: Fw: effects of gmo's on organic farming > This was passed on from another list and it is really important, > Cheryl Kemp. > --Date: Thursday, 9 September 1999 10:12 am > Subject: FW: effects of gmo's on organic farming > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dorothy Bowes [SMTP:asehaqld@powerup.com.au] > >> Sent: Sunday, 5 September 1999 6:11 > >> To: Listbot > >> Subject: effects of gmo's on organic farming > >> > >> I would like to describe the impact of genetic engineering on our 3400 > >> acre > >> organic farm. It would be helpful if these sorts of observations could > be > >> > >> confirmed (or not) by research. > >> > >> There are three main changes that we have seen in North Dakota. > >> > >> 1) We can no longer plant crops that are insect or wind pollinated which > >> are > >> known to be genetically modified. Accordingly, we did not plant canola > >> this > >> year. Canola had been a good crop in our rotation. This limits the > >> diversity > >> of foodstuffs both on farm and in the market place. How many farmers are > >> changing their rotations because we can't "fence in" GMOs and keep them > >> off > >> our land? > >> > >> 2) Different pesticides are being used with GMOs which cause alarming > >> damage > >> across the landscape. Because of weather changes, SE North Dakota is now > >> part > >> of the corn and soybean belt. Pesticides used with "Liberty" Corn cause > >> root > >> systems to grow up instead of down. This, apparently, makes plants grow > >> topsy > >> turvy - the crown ends up pointing down to the earth. Other pesticides, > >> particularly herbicides, are rejuvenated in rain. Because we live in the > >> windiest state in the Union, the damage is ubiquitous. Of course, GMOs > >> are > >> not the only "cause" of new herbicides. However, they are part of the > >> industrialised approach to agriculture which promotes chemicals which are > >> antithetical to life. > >> > >> 3) The timing of herbicide spraying has changed. Farmers now spray for > >> the > >> entire season instead of just in the spring. While GMOs are just one of > >> several factors instigating season-long spraying, they are a significant > >> factor. This means that both plants and humans are exposed to pesticides > >> from > >> April through September. > >> > >> I find it ironic that I am expected to feed the world but can't expect to > >> feed > >> my own family because of herbicide damage to orchards, vineyards, gardens > >> and > >> farms. An unscientific survey among organic farmers in the upper midwest > >> indicates that herbicide damage has increased on our land over the past 3 > >> years. > >> > >> Some of you may know that research has shown that babies conceived in the > >> spring in rural Minnesota (just next door to North Dakota) have a higher > >> rate > >> of birth defects. Does this mean that we need to issue warnings that we > >> should not conceive for the six months of April-Sept. because of the risk > >> of > >> birth defects? > >> > >> Damage resulting from GMOs is not hypothetical. One of the other longest > >> standing organic farmers in North Dakota is now asking if he will be able > >> to > >> continue farming and gardening, not because of the economic crisis but > >> because > >> the chemical damage on his farm and garden is so serious. He raises all > >> the > >> food for the 3 generations of family on his farm. He raises seed for > >> garden > >> supply companies. And he raises small grains. > >> > >> Unfortunately, if we want organic farming to continue, we will need to > >> intervene ... and soon. > >> > >> Carolyn Raffensperger > >> Kirschenmann Family Farms. > >> > >> > >> ______________________________________________________________________ To > >> unsubscribe, write to seqenv-unsubscribe@listbot.com MSN Messenger > Service > >> lets you stay in touch instantly with your family & friends - Visit > >> http://messenger.msn.com > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 11:32:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02823 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02269 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:45:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02228 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:45:17 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:44:18 -0500 X-ROUTED: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:44:18 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.73] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0959033c ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:44:04 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990909093446.00942510@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:34:46 -0500 To: Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2621 >which meant: almost ONE HALF of the organic fertilizers sold in OUR >country were infected with salmonella (serovar mostly not >identified), 3/4th with "enterobacteria" and that is A LOT TOO MUCH >!!!! Klaus, I suspect that if you looked at your soils you would find 100 % bacterial contamination. What does this have to do with organic produce? We don't eat the fertilizer or the soil and we wash our produce just like everybody else. As you no doubt know, the bacillus thuringensis referred to in the thread to which you are responding is found in soils. Do you then suggest that we should go to hydroponic production to avoid bacterial contamination? If you grow food in dirt, it will be possible to contaminate the produce through mishandling regardless of whether you incorporate composted manure or granular fertilizer. If you use sewage sludge as a fertilizer, you get the heavy metal contamination you deserve. The same thing applies to antibiotic laced, confinement livestock sludge. These are personal opinions, of course, but let's get back to the original thrust of my post. The reason that the attack on organic produce is occurring now is that since the world's consumers will not buy their products on a free will basis, the "life science" companies have to eliminate any alternatives to the products they are offering. This is a classic case of FUD : FEAR, UNCERTAINTY & DOUBT (the microsoft strategy to stifle competition in the computer software industry). Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 11:39:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03088 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:39:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04772 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:52:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04670 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA17859; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D7CA3D.728713A2@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:54:53 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lester Loam CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH References: <19990909125647.92337.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2622 It appears to me that the Consumer alert group is a front for the National Consumer Coalition, which has 25 or so other groups (I didn't check them all, but most are not as much consumer groups as "business/chemicals good, science/scientists bad" groups. www.junkscience.com touts the efficacy and importance of DDT!) Atlas foundation (one of the members of NCC) --"relies on contributions from private foundations, corporations, and individuals that share a commitment to the future of the free society. " --"When I want to get in touch with a market-oriented person or organization I first check Atlas's web page." Jerry Jordan Member of the Mont Pelerin Society President of the Federal Reserve Bank in Cleveland these are copied from their webpage These organizations are several layers deep in keeping keeping their funding sources from public knowledge. . . Americans for Tax Reforms-- a group associated with Town Hall, whose member groups (another one of these _very_ deep "Covers") include the Christian Coalition, the Oliver North Radio Show, Family research Council, and others (nothing wrong with conservatives per se, until they start messing with Science) Capital Research Center (NCC member) doesn't show it's own funding sources, but does give a link to corporate sponsors of Planned Parenthood on the top webpage. (does list Trustees, most of which come from other "Foundations") Citizens against Gov. Waste (NCC member, Town Hall member) lists many "Wasteful projects" (many of which are environmental programs, such as aquifer treatment programs, coral reef studies, environmental education, etc.) I'll not go on, because it's not completely relevant to this listserver. Just thought you should know -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 11:39:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03092 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:39:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02299 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:45:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlserve.unl.edu (root@unlserve.unl.edu [129.93.1.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02280 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hcarter.unl.edu (agro-hcarter.unl.edu [129.93.224.44]) by unlserve.unl.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA130908 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:42:22 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990909094409.007a1ab0@unlserve.unl.edu> X-Sender: hcarter@unlserve.unl.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:44:09 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Heidi Carter Subject: New Fact Sheet Available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2623 Dear Readers: Last February I was asked to judge student chapter displays at the Society for Range Management meeting. After viewing the exhibits, I thought the quality could have been better. I told one of the advisors, "Chuck, someone needs to write a tip sheet for these students on how to put together a poster." He said, "Great, let me know when you are finished, and I will post it on the web." Hmm, I didn't think I had volunteered. I've put together Come and Look at This One: Tips for Getting Your Poster Noticed. Because student groups have varying budgets, I outlined the basics and some options. The document includes recommendations for planning, organization and design, text, photographs, proofreading questions and preparation, placement and transportation, presentation day, next steps, and examples of poster-exhibits. Lisa Bauer, Communications Specialist for the North Central Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program, was one of my editors. Lisa said the fact sheet would also benefit farmers who are asked to present posters. Her comment prompted me to inform Sanet readers. I would like to thank Lisa Bauer and the SAN program for lending me pictures of their displays. I would also like to thank Chuck Butterfield, Chadron State College in Nebraska, for his whiz-bang web skills. You can view Come and Look at This One: Tips for Getting Your Poster Noticed at http://www.srm.org/ under the Student Conclave category. Heidi Carter University of Nebraska 402-472-0917 _______________________________________________________________ Heidi Carter Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems University of Nebraska 219 Keim Hall Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 p: 402-472-0917 f: 402-472-4104 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 11:46:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03277 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14186 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:08:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14174 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:10:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.187] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AD5D397C012A; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:08:13 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:04:52 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Mediaeval Agriculture & warming Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2624 On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:16:04 +0200, Klaus Wiegand wrote: >>Luckily, we can look at the prospect of warming through the >>historical record, not an uncertain computer model. The answer is >>that we'd return to the finest weather in recorded history, the >Medieval Climate Optimum (950-1300 A.D.). >>All of the famous cathedrals and castles in Europe were built >>during that period because people had time to spare from working >>in the fields. > >just call it plain rubbish ! noone of the workers had spare time, >there were no longlasting pattern in food production and hunger >from the 12th to the 18th century. famines came and went The climate optimum was a real phenomenon, of worldwide scope. I believe (but am not sure) that the warming during that era dried things out in the US Southwest to the extent that one or more Native American societies collapsed. To link that warming, however, to improved agriculture in Europe (a la Avery...) is a stretch. Cereal yields did not appreciably decrease after 1300. Such data are scarce (and not particularly reliable), but those I have (from England, France, and Germany) show --- if anything --- a continued *increase* in yields after the end of the MCO. Yield ratios (seed harvested to seed planted) at the time were just plain lousy. English wheat from 1200-1450 @ 3.8 +/- 0.1 (various 25-60 year periods). Barley 3.8 +/- 0.3. Oats 2.5 +/- 0.3. France and Germany, broadly similar. Italy, sketchy but apparently in the same range. In today's teminology, these work out to 0.5 t/ha for wheat, 0.4 t/ha for barley, and about 0.2 t/ha for oats (Wh = 8 bu/ac, Bar = 8 bu/ac, Oats = 5 bu/ac). Even compared to poor organic farmers today, the yields are terrible. Those yields, however, were better than what they had been before about 1000 AD. I believe the improved agricultural situation related primarily to two *non*-climate factors --- agricultural and military technology. >From the time of Charlemagne onward, the adoption throughout Europe of the heavy plow, the three-field rotation system, the nailed horseshoe, improved harnesses, and the whippletree made a substantial difference in the manor peasant's ability to work the land. By about 1200, the horse (originally bred for military purposes) had largely replaced oxen in the field. Horses work much faster than oxen. Nor should we under-estimate the agricultural impact of the stirrup. Stirrups enabled cavalry / knights to make lance charges without being un-horsed. In effect it was the invention of the mediaeval "tank," and it profoundly changed both tactics and strategic balance. In doing so it opened up much better ag land for settlement. Prior to the 11th century, most people lived in readily definsible areas --- hilltops, heads of valleys, etc --- that generally precluded highly productive soils. The stirrup opened up bottomlands and plains to relatively secure (for the era) settlement and large areas of excellent land came under cultivation for the first time. Better land and better technology presumably increased yield ratios --- and total harvest --- in the 11th century, but I haven't found the data to back up that statement. Not surprisingly, the population increased accordingly. In England, France, Germany, and Italy, populations roughly tripled between 1000 and 1300. Many other social and economic factors were (little doubt) involved, but there were certainly a *lot* more people around to work on Cathedrals and many other projects, such as continually enlarging the area enclosed by city walls. By the early 14th century, population growth and urban concentration had moved beyond the point of stability for that era. Conditions were ripe for "correction," by famine or plague. Although there had been localised food shortages, such as in 1317, the famine or plague question was definitively answered in 1348 by the Black Death. The point is, however, that all this was going on largely independent of the Mediaeval Climate Optimum. Bart PS --- if you want to look at *real* global warming, consider the Eocene (about 45 million years ago). The climate of Ellesmere Island (Canada) at 80 degrees North latitude was roughly equivalent to that of Memphis. There are vast fossilized cypress forests on Ellesmere, and geo-magnetic studies have established that the island was very close to its present position at the time of those cypress forests. If we are to be concerned about warming, it should be for selfish human reasons ike coastal flooding, increased storminess, droughts, and the like --- Earth will make out just fine, but we might not. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 12:08:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03864 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25286 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ux8.cso.uiuc.edu (jmaxwell@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.44]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25280 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jmaxwell@localhost) by ux8.cso.uiuc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02043 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:28:27 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ux8.cso.uiuc.edu: jmaxwell owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:28:27 -0500 (CDT) From: j scott maxwell X-Sender: jmaxwell@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1281 - Defining species In-Reply-To: <199909082210.SAA06145@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2625 Dale wrote: Jim, >> I do not believe any consensus exists among >> scientists as to how much genetic divergence >> is needed to name a new species. >It seems like there is consensus that calling something a different >species hinges on reproductive isolation. The isolation may result from >actual reproductive incompatibility (ie, genetic difference) or >spatial-temporal isolation. There are numerous execptions to the reproductive isolation definition of species (e.g., coydogs ... coyote - domestic dog offspring that are fertile) especially when organisms like fungi are considered. I remember from a mycology class I took a couple of years ago that the entire taxonomic system for fungi is a hotly contested issue as species are being reorganized into different families and orders based on genetic mapping. Some scientists are advocating species designation based on a certain level of variation in ribosomal DNA, while other mycologists counter that this approach to species determination makes no practical sense and advocate a more ecologically based determination. I'm not sure that the classical explanation of reproductive isolation is still the consensus view among the scientific community for defining a species. It seems that consensus is lacking. Scott Maxwell To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 13:37:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06378 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07442 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:52:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA07426 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.12] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na220311 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:50:59 -0500 Message-ID: <002f01befae3$cde1cc80$0c9fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "Jim Worstell" To: , "James Kotcon" , Subject: Re: Re: Breeding and speciation (was food labeling) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:53:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2626 Klaus, It's really impossible to say a given organism is x percent of one parent and x percent of another parent in any sexually reproducing species, much less when the cross is between genera or classes or kingdoms. For example, if you unite cells of different species and genera, often chromosomes of one of the two various parents drops out. When human cells are united with various plant and fungi species, the human chromosomes are quickly and invariably (with present technology) eliminated as the line divides and grows. Rye has 7 pairs of chromosomes, bread wheat has 21 (3 genomes of 7). The hybrid of rye and wheat has 28 chromosomes. In meiosis, the rye and wheat chromosomes often pair and exchange chromatin, because of the physical compatibility of rye and wheat chromosomes. The resulting gametes have various numbers of chromosomes depending on where the nuclear envelope forms after the first division of meiosis. Unreduced gametes often result. These 28 chromosome gametes would be "1/4 rye" as far as the genetic material carried by the chromosomes (7 of the 28 chromosomes were from the rye parent). But there is also genetic material in the cytoplasm which comes with the female parent. So if rye is the female, the unreduced gametes on the hybrid are more than 1/4 rye. A selfed wheat-rye hybrid could be an almost infinite combination of "percentages of rye and wheat," depending on how many chromosomes pass through the meiotic division which eventually resulted in the pollen. Some of the old plant cytogenetics texts, or any paper by Ernie Sears would clarify this better than I could. A good website is: http://lausd.k12.ca.us/~kmcmahon/AP%20Bio%20Lectures/Meiosis/MLCG.html I don't know any good places for up-to-date info on tissue hybrids between plants and higher vertebrates, but I'll bet monsantan (sp.?) would know. -----Original Message----- From: Klaus Wiegand To: James Kotcon ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 3:09 AM Subject: Re: Breeding and speciation (was food labeling) hello james, > I do not believe any consensus exists among scientists as >to how much genetic divergence is needed to name a new species. In >some bacteria, a single gene difference will lead to a new species >name, while in other bacteria, as much as 30 % of the genome may >vary within the same "species". it might even be more. take X triticale for example, sth. like an interbreed between rye and wheat. at first you get about 50:50 for the relation of wheat:rye, but if you breed this line and cross it with a pure wheat, you get something like 75:25, or if crossed with a pure rye, a relation of 25:75. i once asked a breeder: is that still a real triticale? and i heard a loud YES. when i asked: if you go on with mixing the lines and you got just only 10% of rye, that's still a triticale ? again a definite YES. when i asked: "what about 5 %?" he said: "depends on which 5%, you would have difficulties to see it in a single plant, but certainly you can distiniguish them, when you compare it with a pure wheat or pure rye." so what he said, was that the divergence in a "true" triticale can lie at least between 5 and 95% and it's still considered a X triticale. Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 13:47:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06556 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15853 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:09:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15745 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990909170922.19090.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.234] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:09:22 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:09:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Studies Shows Protecting Farmland Makes Cents To: sanet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2627 Forwarded -- (Kirsten) Studies Shows Protecting Farmland Makes Cents Farms and open lands in Northampton County, Virginia contributed over four times as much money to the countys tax base in 1998 as they used in services, according to a recent study by the American Farmland Trust. The study also found that revenues from residential development in the county were not enough to cover the cost of services demanded by that land use. The study, which looked at the costs and revenues associated with different land uses, is one of 60 Cost of Community Services studies performed in communities nationwide since 1986. By giving county residents current facts on land use to help inform planning decisions, the studies challenge the assumption that development is always the best land use option. One example, The Cost of Community Services in Monmouth County New Jersey, analyzes the cost of Community Services in five New Jersey Townships and proves that farms and open space are good for the local tax base. It is available for $14.95 by calling 800-370-4879. -- ************************************************** Robyn Miller Media Specialist American Farmland Trust 1200 18th Street, NW Washington, DC 20036 P 202-331-7300 ext. 3055 F 202-659-8339 E-mail: rmiller@farmland.org ************************************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 15:19:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09031 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18097 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:26:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18068 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09822 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:25:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "sanet" Subject: organic corn yields Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:19:50 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19990909170922.19090.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2628 Where does one look, or who should one ask for data on organic corn yields over time? Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 15:37:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09537 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:37:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00600 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:53:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA00496 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id NAA24061; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:52:21 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma023649; Thu, 9 Sep 99 13:52:05 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:52:05 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEF5@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de'" , Andy Clark , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Tracing genetics (was: Avery on global warming; GE tofu; French f armers Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:51:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2629 Klaus, > there is almost no way to differenciate a conventional bred > variety from one injected with strange genome and that it > quite easy to cheat. where should be the difference? I don't think this is too big a problem because transgenes are spliced onto a promoter that turns them on in a particular tissue. There are not very many promoters in use. The promoter sequences can apparently be used as PCR primers in a cocktail to generically detect GMO's with great sensitivity (I would say excessive sensitivity!). > chromosomes are a sequence of genes, which are altered and > mixed with other genes by the breeding process The assumption of independent assortment is not really very good over time scales of cultivar development, and chunks of chromosomes are inherited. It is possible to trace the heritage of genetic material that has been stolen, even without distinctive promoter sequences. Pioneer has half the corn seed industry in court right now, and they have had to admit chasing selfs in our (non-gmo) seed. > and if breeders do not force the process up to the extreme > (injecting specific and already identified codons from other > species) and do not tell the authorities of their gene lab > work, noone would be able to prove otherwise... just how ??? All the information about promoter sequences, and transgenes in general is patented and in the public domain. Developing these things is a big deal, and there is great incentive to patent everything. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 15:51:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10025 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09715 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:14:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chet.brysonweb.com (IDENT:root@chet.brysonweb.com [209.67.195.73]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09649 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (PPPa34-WashingtonB3-3R588.saturn.bbn.com [4.9.7.72]) by chet.brysonweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA05161 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:18:59 -0400 Message-Id: <199909091918.PAA05161@chet.brysonweb.com> X-Sender: twilliams@progressivepubs.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:11:14 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Tad Williams Subject: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2630 I am trying to locate information or organizations that work towards preserving farmland either though land trusts or historical preservation. I am especially interested in finding out what local and state governments are doing to support these initiatives. Thanks, @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tad Williams Progressive Resources Publications P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 202-238-0010; Fax: 202-238-0011 twilliams@progressivepubs.com http://www.progressivepubs.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 16:22:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10527 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19968 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:38:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19924 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-5-7.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.7]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA06793; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:30:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199909091930.OAA06793@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "SANET-mg" , "Misha" Subject: Re: Avery on global warming; GE tofu; French farmers Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:35:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2631 I didn't read all the following posts on Avery's comments but wasn't there some huge contradictions in his "work". 1. His whole message centers around the idea that the world has never been able to feed itself well until pesticides and commercial fertilizer came on the scene. Now he is saying they did quite well in the 12th, 13th, and 14th century. Did they have pesticides and fertilizers? 2. His whole scare campaign to get people to embrace corporatism is based on the premise that we are going to run out of food. Now we don't need to be concerned about global warming because it will drastically improve food production. What is the need for alarm then? I guess I think it is very hard to read Dennis Avery and not get confused. I'm never sure whether we are or aren't going to run out of food in his opinion. I just know whichever side he is on its going to justify big business rolling on without consequences. Do people see through his logic? Or does his message work on people similar to the crap that PBS airs as commercials for ADM. (Their commercial says they are extremely concerned about feeding the hungry world. That is why they are doubling in size at least every 5 years.) The true issues surrounding food security and sustainability are being blurred by the corporate heavy hitters in my opinion. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp free range hog farmer LaGrange, IN To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 19:31:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14932 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06689 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:32:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA06616 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990909223228.25212.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.234] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:32:28 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:32:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: USDA FOOD SECURITY INITIATIVE AND FOOD SUMMIT ANNOUNCED To: sanet Cc: ipsa@igc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2632 This email is forwarded Although its fairly long, this email announces, gives some background and describes USDA's Food Security Initiative --Kirsten Saylor ---------------------- From: Linda Elswick, Community Food Security Coalition and International Partnership for Sustainable Agriculture Reply-to: ipsa@igc.org USDA FOOD SECURITY INITIATIVE AND FOOD SUMMIT ANNOUNCED USDA has announced the Community Food Security Initiative and Food Summit, which the Coalition encourages all to attend, just prior to our annual Conference. Make plans now to join us in Chicago for the Summit (October 14-15) and Coalition Conference "Toward a Democratic and Just Food System" (October 14, 16 & 17) or by teleconference downlink locally (Summit program, October 15th). See the USDA announcement below and invitation that follows, as well as additional details on World Food Day. We worked for and won this one! Implementation of the Initiative has been a major accomplishment of the Coalition-led Community Food Security Empowerment Act document published in January 1995 for the Farm Bill which called for such a Community Food Security program within USDA: Excerpts from the Community Food Security Empowerment Act, January 1995 "USDA should adopt community food security as a central agency mission. To implement that approach, a community food security program should be established at the highest levels within the USDA. The program would coordinate food-security related programs within USDA; play a planning role for both inter-governmental and extra-governmental food security-related programs; and provide a focal point for linkages between the USDA and other federal agency activities as they relate to food security issues."... The Coalition is working to help plan the program for the Food Summit which will introduce the Community Food Security Initiative. This Initiative has been formed in the past few months by USDA staff with input by the Coalition. The Summit offers a timely look at what USDA and communities across the country are doing to build sustainable food systems and end hunger, including a plenary panel featuring a comprehensive look at community food security and examples of program efforts from around the country. All of this nicely complements the Coalition conference and this is a good opportunity to combine both events. There will be a teleconference with downlink sites across the country linked to World Food Day, workshops and opportunities to meet with the new USDA State Community Food Security liaisons. The Summit offers a number of programs, some of which will be built on more in-depth sessions offered on the 16th at the Coalition's Conference. These will be designed to offer an introduction to the wide range of issues encompassed in the framework of community food security, reaching an audience of USDA staff and delegates from all over the country. The Coalition remains active working with USDA on policy and programs for food security, serving on the planning committee for the Summit, participating as a partner in advancing common concerns, and continuing to monitor Department efforts to spearheard this issue. It is a significant victory to have this level of attention and commitment by the Department of Agriculture, one of which the Coalition and other organizations who advocated for it can be proud. The Summit is also an opportunity to meet with groups cross the country and begin forging additional partnerships to see that all of this effort will make a difference. Don't miss it. *********************************************************** GLICKMAN ANNOUNCES SUMMIT, ACTION PLAN FOR COMMUNITY FOOD SECURITY INITIATIVE WASHINGTON, Aug. 9, 1999- In remarks today to the national anti-hunger organization Share Our Strength, Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman unveiled a detailed plan of action for the USDA Community Food Security Initiative, including the announcement of the first-ever National CFS Summit, and the naming of CFS Liaisons in all 50 states. The Initiative, launched in February, seeks to cut domestic hunger in half by the year 2015 through USDA partnerships with states, municipalities, nonprofit groups, and the private sector that strengthen local food systems. "I want people to see this summit as a way to make government involvement in fighting hunger more effective through cooperative efforts with communities,"Glickman said. "Just because government isn't the only answer doesn't mean government is not an important part of the solution. It most certainly is. I want to see communities become more adept at utilizing governments vast resources and extensive programs to further food security goals." The National Summit on Community Food Security: Building Partnerships to End Hunger, will be held on October 15 in conjunction with the World Food Day observance, will take place at central site in Chicago, and will be broadcast by satellite to downlink sites around the country. The Summit will both highlight existing best practices already working to bolster food Security, as well as mobilize new commitments to fight hunger from all sectors of society. "Together, we can conquer hunger in America," Glickman said. "And with a Community Food Security Liaison--a USDA employee-in each state, we will be there to help you." Glickman said that the new Community Food Security Liaisons will provide "one-stop-shopping" for nonprofit groups and citizens who need to utilize USDA resources to bolster local food security efforts. The Community Food Security Action Plan has as its primary goals: catalyzing the creation of new-and expanding the capacity of existing-local infrastructures; increasing economic and job security; strengthening the federal nutrition assistance safety net; improving community food production and marketing; bolstering supplemental food provided by nonprofit groups; boosting education and awareness; and improving research, monitoring, and evaluation. Earlier today, USDA's Risk Management Agency announced new guidelines to encourage farmers covered under federal crop insurance programs to glean And donate to charitable organizations field crops that would otherwise go unused or be destroyed. # USDA Community Food Security Initiative What We're Doing: Seeking to cut hunger in America in half by the year 2015 , the USDA Community Food Security Initiative is creating and expanding grass-roots partnerships that build local food systems and reduce hunger. How We're Doing It: USDA is joining with states, municipalities, nonprofit groups, and the private sector to strengthen local food systems by replicating best practices of existing efforts and by catalyzing new community commitments to fight hunger. Goals We're Targeting: 1) Creating new --- and enhancing existing --- local infrastructures to reduce hunger and food insecurity. 2) Increasing economic and job security by helping low-income people obtain living wage jobs and attain self-sufficiency 3) Strengthening the Federal nutrition assistance safety net by supporting the full and efficient use of programs such as Food Stamps, WIC, school meals, summer feeding, and TEFAP. 4) Bolstering supplemental food provided by nonprofit groups by aiding food recovery, gleaning, and food donation programs. 5) Improving community food production and marketing by aiding projects that grow, process, and distribute food locally 6) Boosting education and awareness by increasing efforts to inform the public about nutrition, food safety, and food security 7) Improving research, monitoring, and evaluation efforts to help communities assess and strengthen food security Methods We're Using: Catalyzing the development of new partnerships on the local, state, and Federal levels to help communities reduce hunger. Improving the coordination between existing USDA programs--such as nutrition assistance programs, community food grants, ongoing research, farmers' markets, and food recovery projects--and related Federal, State, and community initiatives. Expanding technical assistance to states, communities, and nonprofit groups to build long-term local structures to increase food security. Increasing public awareness of the causes of food insecurity and highlighting innovative community solutions to hunger. For more information, contact: Joel Berg, Coordinator of Community Food Security, USDA, Room 536-A, 14th and Independence, SW, Washington, DC, 20250, phone (202) 720-5746, fax (202) 690-1131, e-mail: joel.ber-@usda.gov Media Contact: Laura Trivers (202) 720-4623 laura.triver-@usda.gov Public Contact: Janna Paschal (202) 720-5402 janna.pascha-@usda.gov __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 19:33:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14962 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11367 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:40:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA11266 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990909224037.6290.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.202.222.234] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:40:37 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:40:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: INVITATION: NATIONAL SUMMIT ON COMMUNITY FOOD SECURITY To: sanet Cc: ipsa@igc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2633 Forwarded -- Kirsten Saylor -------------------------------- Date:Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:50:57 -0700 (PDT) To:Community Food Security Coalition From:Linda Elswick Subject:INVITATION: NATIONAL SUMMIT ON COMMUNITY FOOD SECURITY Reply-to:ipsa@igc.org OCTOBER 14 AND 15, 1999 NATIONAL SUMMIT ON COMMUNITY FOOD SECURITY: BUILDING PARTNERSHIPS TO END HUNGER Chicago, Illinois & at local Satellite Downlink Sites WHAT IS THE NATIONAL SUMMIT ON COMMUNITY FOOD SECURITY? Sponsored by the United States Department of Agriculture, the Summit will mark World Food Day by mobilizing communities and individuals to make comprehensive commitments to cut American hunger and food insecurity in half by the year 2015. To reach the goal, the Summit will: 1. Generate commitments to fight hunger and strengthen local food systems; 2. Highlight best practices that are already working to bolster food security; 3. Develop new innovative partnerships; and 4. Increase national awareness of the problems of -- and solutions to --- food insecurity and hunger. WHO CAN PARTICIPATE IN THE SUMMIT? Anyone who is interested in fighting hunger and building their local food system can participate by attending the central Summit site in Chicago or any of hundreds of World Food Day satellite downlink sites. There is no registration fee. Attendees will include: Community Delegations. Develop a community delegation to attend the Summit. These delegations would include the key local stakeholders such as municipal officials, food security and anti-hunger leaders, farmers, businesspeople, and community-based nonprofit groups. State Delegations: We urge Governors and state-wide organizations to create a state delegation that includes key state constituencies such as state officials, state nonprofit groups, state farming groups, businesses, tribal leaders, anti-hunger and food security groups, and foundations. Committed Community and State Leaders: If it is not possible to form a delegation, we urge committed organizations and individuals on the local and state level to join us. National Leaders in the public, private, and nonprofit sectors. WHAT WILL HAPPEN AT THE SUMMIT? Technical assistance workshops Community/State/Regional Meetings Networking with local, state and national leaders Sharing of best practices Development of local, state, and national commitments HOW CAN PEOPLE OR ORGANIZATIONS PARTICIPATE? Fill in the attached form and fax it to (202)479-6801. For participants traveling to Chicago, room reservations must be made at the Wyndham Chicago Hotel (the central Summit site) by September 13th (phone number: 312- 573-0300. Please note, there is a limited number of rooms available from the Wyndham at a special rate of $129.00 plus tax. If you have questions about the conference content, contact Janna Paschal at (202) 720-5402 TENTATIVE AGENDA (All Times Central Time) THURSDAY, OCTOBER 14 8:30 am - 1:30 pm - Site Visits (sponsored by the Community Food Security Coalition (Optional) 9:00 am - noon - USDA Community Food Security Liaisons Training 1:30 - 2:30 p.m. - Opening Session 2:45 - 5:00 p.m. - Technical assistance workshops by local and national experts on: Community infrastructures, Economic and job security, Federal nutrition assistance safety net, Supplemental food provided by non-profit groups, Community food production and marketing, Education and awareness, Research and monitoring, 6:00 - 8:00 p.m. - Welcoming Reception FRIDAY, OCTOBER 15* * All events below will occur at central Chicago site; only events occurring between 11:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. will be broadcast to a downlink site. 9:00 a.m. - 10:00a.m. Morning Plenary 10:00 a.m.- Noon Technical Assistance Sessions Noon - 1:00 p.m. Plenary Session 1:00 p.m. - 2:00 p.m. World Food Day Broadcast 2:15 p.m. - 4:00 p.m. Community/state/regional delegation meetings 4:15 p.m. - 5:15 p.m. Closing Ceremony NOTE: The Community Food Security Coalition's Annual Conference, Toward a Just and Democratic Food System, will be held in Chicago October 14-17. It will feature a main plenary on the global food system, workshops on a variety of topics, short courses, field trips to local food systems and more. This conference greatly compliments the Summit. For more information, contact the CFSC at 310-822-5410,or asfisher@aol.com. -------------------- REGISTRATION FORM (There is no registration fee. Lodging is the attendees' responsibility.) Name: Preferred Badge Name: Organization Name: Address: E-Mail Address: Phone Number: Fax Number: Check all applicable: I will participate in the Summit at:_____ Central Chicago Site ___ Local downlink Site (specific information will follow) Delegation type preference: ____ State ______ Tribal _____ Community _____Other Will use Summit to: ____ Make new commitments ______ Highlight best practices Fax to: (202) 479-6801, e-mail to crystal_penn@grad.usda.gov or mail to Crystal Penn, Graduate School, USDA, 600 Maryland Avenue, SW, Suite 280, Washington, DC 20024; call 202-314-3465 with registration questions. For attendees requiring overnight accommodations in Chicago, there is a block of rooms at the Wyndham Chicago Hotel available through September 13 or until filled. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 20:04:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15659 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17517 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:45:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy3.bigplanet.com ([216.169.193.145]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17455 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ts008d05.dal-tx.concentric.net [206.173.141.113]) by proxy3.bigplanet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21513; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:44:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <00e201befb13$f1aab700$988dadce@oemcomputer> Reply-To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_J._Rankin_BioLIFE=AE_Technologies_Inc.?=" From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_J._Rankin_BioLIFE=AE_Technologies_Inc.?=" To: "Sanet Sanet" Subject: Compost Needed Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:37:47 -0500 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?BioLIFE=AE_Technologies=2C_Inc.?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2634 Dear Sanet, We are in need of large quantities of compost from primarily animal sources. We will take it in bulk. Could you please let us know if you are aware of good reliable sources. Sincerely, Michael J. Rankin BioLIFE Technologies, Inc. Web: http://welcome.to/biolife To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 20:39:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16097 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01632 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:54:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01561 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id QAA27541; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:53:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990909164039.00b716e0@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: mark2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:54:44 -0700 To: "sanet" From: Mark Lipson Subject: Re: organic corn yields Cc: "Hal Hamilton" In-Reply-To: References: <19990909170922.19090.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2635 Some time series data on organic corn yields is summarized in a recent report by Rick Welsh at the Wallace Institute: "The Economics of Organic Grain and Soybean Production in the Midwestern United States" on the web at This is mainly a survey piece which synthesizes the results from various studies of "cropping systems trials". So you can find your way to the original data sets and investigators if need be. Also, in the results of the most recent National Organic Farmers Survey from the Organic Farming Research Foundation, median yields and prices of all organic crops are presented, as reported by the (1,200) responding growers. For the 1997 crop year, 65 growers reported a range of yields from 35 bu/ac to 145 bu/ac, with the median being 100 bu/ac. The Survey results are available from OFRF at the numbers below. At 11:19 AM 9/9/99 , you wrote: >Where does one look, or who should one ask for data >on organic corn yields over time? > >Hal Hamilton >Center for Sustainable Systems >433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA >Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 >hhamilton@centerss.org > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Organic Farming Research Foundation Mark Lipson, Policy Program Director ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670 PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 20:52:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16296 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11312 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:10:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11202 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id RAA00667 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:09:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990909165756.00958880@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: mark2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:11:10 -0700 To: "sanet" From: Mark Lipson Subject: NEW Organic Research Wkshp Transcript Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by scruz.net id RAA00667 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2636 This new publication is now available as a PDF file at:
    <= http://www.ofrf.org/policy/index.html>
    Copies are also available from the Organic Farming Research Foundation (see below).


    Proceedings of the Workshop:
    "Organic Farming and Marketing Research - New Partnerships and Priorities"
    Held October 29, 1998 at USDA offices in Washington, D.C.
    Co-Sponsored by the Organic Farming Research Foundation, USDA, and the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture.

    Publication of these proceedings is made possible by a grant from the USDA Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education program, under USDA Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service Agreement No. 99-COOP-2-7536.  Any opinions, findings, conclusions, or recommendations expressed in this publication are those of the presenter(s) and do not necessarily reflect the view of the United States Department of Agriculture.

    TABLE OF CONTENTS
            ****         &nb= sp;  Introduction         &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;                =          &nbs= p;        4
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Todd Hamner & Mark Lipson, Eds.
            Speaker #1:     The Scientific Congress on Organic Agricultural Research        &n= bsp; 5
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Mark Lipson, Organic Farming Research Foundation        
            Speaker #2:     1998 Organic Research Initiative Legislation      &nbs= p;         &n= bsp;   18
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Mark Keating, Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture    
            Speaker #3:     Sustainable Development and Small Farms       &nbs= p;         19
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Adela Backiel, USDA, Office of the Chief Economist
            Speaker #4:     Organic Research in the SARE Program         &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;20
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Jill Auburn, USDA, Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education
            Speaker #5:     Organic Research in Michigan             &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;   21
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Susan Houghton, Michigan Organic Food and Farm Alliance
            Speaker #6:     Research Needs from the Farm Inspector=92s Perspective    23
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Jim Riddle, Independent Organic Inspectors Association
            Speaker #7:     The Alternative Farming Systems Information Center       &nb= sp;      26
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Mary Gold, USDA, National Agricultural=20 Library  
            Speaker #8:     ARS National Programs and Organic Agriculture         &nb= sp; 27
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Mike Jawson, USDA, Agricultural Research Service
            Speaker #9:     Organic Research at the Beltsville Research Center       &nb= sp;      29
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    John Teasdale, USDA, Agricultural Research Service
            Speaker #10:    The ARS Long-term Farming Systems Project       &n= bsp;         =       32
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Mark Davis, USDA, Agricultural Research Service
            Speaker #11:    The Economics of Organic Grain Production in the Midwest        34<= br>         &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Rick Welsh, Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture
            Speaker #12:    ARS Research into Microbial Pesticides       = ;         &nb= sp; 37               &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Michael McGuire, USDA, Agricultural Research Service
            Speaker #13:    Meeting the Data Needs of the Organic Industry (Part 1) 45
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Catherine Greene, USDA, Economic Research Service
            Speaker #14:    Meeting the Data Needs of the Organic Industry (Part 2) 47
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Norman Bennett, USDA, National Agricultural Statistics Service
            Speaker #15:    Meeting the Data Needs of the Organic Industry (Part 3) 48
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Terry Long, USDA, Agricultural Marketing Service                 Speaker #16:    Beginning to Understand Organic Markets         &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;     49
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Barry Krisoff, USDA, Economic Research Service
            Speaker #17:    Price Premiums for Organic Fresh and Processed Foods    50
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Ann Vandeman, USDA, Economic Research Service
            Speaker #18:    International Issues Pertaining to Organic Agriculture         &nb= sp;55
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Janice Zygmont, USDA, Foreign Agricultural Service
            Speaker #19:    Local, Grass-fed Beef: Production and Marketing Concerns        58
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Jenny Warden, Piedmont Farm Marketing Project
            Speaker #20:    Greening the Food System         &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;         &nb= sp; 58
            &nb= sp;         &= nbsp;         = ;    Ann Thrupp, World Resources Institute
            ****    
         &nb= sp;  SPEAKER CONTACT INFORMATION      &nbs= p;         &n= bsp;         =    64




    Organic Farming Research Foundation
    Mark Lipson, Policy Program Director
    ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670
    PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061
    To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 21:37:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17464 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13537 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:00:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13528 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (ncs-61.nbn.com [199.4.66.61]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id RAA27301; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: "Tad Williams" , Subject: RE: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:58:38 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01befb27$9dc3be20$384204c7@business> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199909091918.PAA05161@chet.brysonweb.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2637 Tad, I'd suggest contacting Ralph Grossi, President of the American Farmland Trust in Washington D.C. info@farmland.org In California, contact Bob Burner at the Marin Agricultural Land Trust, 415-663-1158, rberner@malt.org - Michael ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Tad Williams Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:11 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland I am trying to locate information or organizations that work towards preserving farmland either though land trusts or historical preservation. I am especially interested in finding out what local and state governments are doing to support these initiatives. Thanks, @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tad Williams Progressive Resources Publications P.O. Box 11335 Washington, DC 20008 202-238-0010; Fax: 202-238-0011 twilliams@progressivepubs.com http://www.progressivepubs.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 22:04:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17904 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25136 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:19:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25056 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:19:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA110598 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:18:28 -0600 Received: from edandsue (dialup0302.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.53.146]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA37506; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:18:25 -0600 From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Cc: Subject: RE: Genetic engineering--an interesting exchange in SCIENCE, Sept 3 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:10:59 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <00e201befb13$f1aab700$988dadce@oemcomputer> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2638 Dear Colleagues: The three letters copied below are from SCIENCE, Volume 285, Number 5433 Issue of 3 Sep 1999, p 1489. The first two are responding to an editorial in the July 16 issue of SCIENCE. The last is a response by the author of the article--Roger N. Beachy. Those of you who have the journal available should check it out; the formatting here is poor. The letters are also on the website below, but I think that one needs to be a subscriber to access it. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/285/5433/1489c Regards, Ed Sparling Prof Emeritus Ag and Resource Econ Dept Colo State University ------------------------------------------------------- THE LETTERS: Redesigning Evolution? Roger N. Beachy (Editorial, 16 July, p. 335) bewails the "hysteria" and "mistrust" that have led many Europeans to disbelieve U.S. official findings that genetically altered foods are safe for both eaters and ecosystems. A simpler explanation would be the widespread and justifiable perception that key committees, agencies, and policy positions have been captured or compromised by commercial interests. Ex-regulators reviewing their own past decisions, and consultants to or former employees of the industries being scrutinized, do not look independent. Neither do studies performed or sponsored by those industries, especially if unpublished. Old, narrow, superseded science and lack of relevant disciplinary backgrounds may make findings unconvincing. Revolving-door appointments tarnish the appearance of integrity in policy advice. Such conditions, widespread in U.S. and for that matter U.N. food regulation, rationally explain weak public confidence. Beachy regrettably contributes to this problem by failing to note that a leading transgenics company is a cofounder and major funder of his institution, whose genuine independence, despite its university and nonprofit partners, remains to be established. The "comprehensive scientific reviews" that Beachy says ensure food safety look very different to readers of a recent report (1) that the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) all lack jurisdiction to test and certify the safety of genetically modified foods. The FDA, for example, does not test the safety of genetically altered potatoes because the EPA regulates the Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) insecticide they produce. (Companies can opt out of FDA regulation of other transgenic foods simply by saying they are safe.) The EPA does not follow the FDA's food standard, "reasonable certainty of no harm," but sets human tolerances subject to risk-benefit analyses. But the EPA does not test the potatoes either; it merely feeds separately produced Bt insecticide to mice and assumes that the potatoes are otherwise identical [an assumption now coming into question for soybeans (2)]. Purchased, the insecticide comes with a long EPA warning label, but eaten in potatoes, it is unlabeled, because the FDA, which controls plant-food labels, is barred by law from including on them any pesticide information. Nonetheless, the potato vendor's spokesman is quoted as saying that his firm "should not have to vouchsafe the safety of biotech food. Our interest is in selling as much of it as possible. Assuring its safety is the F.D.A.'s job." (1). Why should this runaround inspire public confidence either? And who, if anyone, ensures ecological safety, which may be an even greater concern (3)? Genetically altered crops are being rejected by many leading international buyers and trade at a discount (4), doubtless because of fear and risk-aversion. But fear is not always irrational, especially when so many of the surprises have been bad ones. Beachy is right that the basis of concern needs scientific clarification. However, both transgenics and science will lose legitimacy if cheerleading replaces thoughtful and rigorous discussion of food and ecosystem safety, especially from the commonly missing perspectives of ecology and evolutionary biology. For example, is importing genes from remote taxa really like traditional breeding? Might transgenics let pathogens jump the species barrier? Do transgenes speed horizontal gene flow? Why? How safe are antibiotic-resistance markers and viral carriers? How certain and permanent is "substantial equivalence" of gene-altered foods? Does evolution occur in the genomic "nanoecosystem"? Are so-called "junk genes" its vital biodiversity? What comes of ignoring genomic and environmental contexts that influence expression in the phenotype or of injecting alien genes into random genomic sites? And now for the tough, fundamental questions: What would be the long-term ecological implications of success in creating the properties being sought? Is redesigning evolution to work not at its biological pace but at that of quarterly earnings reports--and to align not with biological fitness but with economic profitability (survival not of the fittest but of the fattest)--really a good idea? Can it still foresee and forestall? Can novel life forms with unexpected consequences be reliably recalled? Is transgenics, as someone said of nuclear fission, "a fit technology for a wise, farseeing, and incorruptible people"? And is transgenics really essential to avoid starvation--or is it, as nuclear power proved to be, just a distraction from available, superior, but systematically suppressed and overlooked alternatives (5)? Amory B. Lovins Co-Chief Executive Office Research), Rocky Mountain Institute, 1739 Snowmass Creek Road, Snowmass, Colorado 81654-9199, USA References and Notes 1.M. Pollan, N.Y. Times Mag., 25 October 1998, p. 44. 2.For example, M. Lapp, E. B. Bailey, C. Childress, K. D. R. Setchell, J. Medic. Food 1, 241 1998/1999). 3.J. Rissler and M. Mellon, The Ecological Risks of Engineered Crops (MIT Press, Cambridge, MA, 1996). 4.T. S. Ramey, M. J. Wimer, R. M. Rocker, "GMOs are dead" (Deutsche Bank Research, New York, 21 May 1999). 5.A. B. Lovins and L. H. Lovins, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, 1 August 1999, condensed from "A tale of two botanies," posted at www.rmi.org/twobotanies.html; G. Conway, The Doubly Green Revolution (Penguin, Harmondsworth, UK, 1997); National Research Council, Alternative Agriculture (National Academy Press, Washington, DC, 1989); Lost Crops of Africa, vol. 1, Grains (National Academy Press, Washington, DC, 1996); P. Hawken, A. B. Lovins, L. H. Lovins, Natural Capitalism: Creating the Next Industrial Revolution (Little Brown, New York, 1999), esp. chap. 10. Editorial writer Beachy is identified as president of the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center in St. Louis, Missouri. But he does not inform us that for many years he has collaborated with, and been financed by, the Monsanto Corporation (1), a leader in corporate plant biotechnology and the subject of much criticism in this area (2). The Monsanto Corporation is a founding partner of the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center (3). In addition, Beachy chairs the Scientific Advisory Board of Xyris, another agricultural biotechnology firm (4). These significant corporate involvements and their consequent biases cannot be inferred from his stated affiliation. As Beachy notes, plantings of genetically modified crops have increased dramatically over the past few years. He asserts that the commercial use of such crops followed "comprehensive scientific reviews." Others refute this statement. Beachy's pro-Monsanto biases are revealed by his not acknowledging the arguments of reputable scientists and biotechnology policy analysts that the "reviews" have in fact been minimal, short-term, and conducted by industry (and largely unpublished, rather than public and peer reviewed) and that they have not addressed the full range of risks posed by these novel organisms (5). Differing views about the risks of genetically modified crops are thus matters of scientific debate (6). However, by posing the issue in terms of "hysteria" and "fear of biotechnology," Beachy uses his position as editorialist to obstruct essential technical and public discourse. As a matter of policy, Science should follow the practice of other scientific society-sponsored journals (7) by requiring that all authors and editorialists fully disclose financial interests in their subject matter. Only then can readers knowledgeably evaluate the writer's statements and potential biases. Claire Nader Chair, Board of Directors, Council for Responsible Genetics, 5 Upland Road, Cambridge, MA 02140, USA. Email: crg@gene-watch.org Martha R. Herbert, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA 02129, USA Paul R. Billings, Veterans Health Administration, Grand Prairie, TX 75050, USA Philip L. Bereano, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195, USA Ruth Hubbard, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA Jonathan King, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA Sheldon Krimsky, Tufts University, Medford, MA 02155, USA Stuart A. Newman, New York Medical College, Valhalla, NY 10595, USA Doreen Stabinsky, Sacramento State University, Sacramento, CA 95819, USA* *The signers of this letters are all board members of the Council for Responsible Genetics. References and Notes 1.R. N. Beachy, The Scientist, 4, 15 (1990); www.the-scientist.lib.upenn.edu/yr1990/july/opin1_900723.html 2.For example, D. Barboza, N.Y. Times, 5 August 1999, p. C1. 3.danforthcenter.org/partners.htm 4.www.xyrisco.com/sabrd.htm 5.For example, M. Mellon and J. Rissler, Bio/Technology 13, 96 (1995); B. Purrington and J. Bergeleson, Trends Ecol. Evol. 10, 340 (1995); R. Wrubel, S. Krimsky, R. Wetzler, BioScience 42, 280 (1992). 6.Board of Science and Education, The Impact of Genetic Modification on Agriculture, Food, and Health (British Medical Association, London, 18 May 1999), www.bma.org.uk/public/science/genmod.htm; R. Weiss, Washington Post, 18 May 1999, p. A2; P. Mitchell and J. Bradbury, Lancet 353, 1769 (1999); Anonymous [editorial], ibid., p. 1811. 7.D. Rennie, A. Flanagin, R. M. Glass, J. Am. Med. Assoc. 266, 266 (1991). Response Lovins questions the conclusion that current regulatory mechanisms are sufficient to oversee foods developed through genetic modification. The fact is that the FDA has absolute legal right over the foods developed by any process. New varieties produced by means of biotechnology must be shown to possess chemical equivalence with the parent materials; such proof is provided by the company making application. After review (generally requiring 12 to 18 months), the FDA rules to accept or reject; it also holds the right to remove any food product at a later date. The EPA evaluates the environmental safety of any new pesticidal product (such as the Bt protein), and sets daily allowances of residues of the protein and/or its derivatives in the food or in the environment. The USDA determines whether the new variety does or does not have impacts on the ecology of the environment in which it is planted and, accordingly, determines acceptability. These processes together can require up to 6 years to gain approval of a new variety developed by genetic transformation. Such requirements are not required of varieties produced by chemical or radiation mutagenesis, or by other techniques used in plant breeding. Lovins and board members of the Council for Responsible Genetics question the independence of the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center. Legal documents that establish the Center are open to the public and confirm the independence from Monsanto Company and other companies. I would not have accepted the position as president and director of the center under other conditions. Like the authors of the letters, I, too, believe in full disclosure. I am currently a member of the Science Advisory Board of Akkadix, in San Diego, a newly established corporation, and Advisor for Biotechnology for the Rohm and Haas Corporation, in Philadelphia. I have not received support for sponsored research from the Monsanto Company since 1991 and have served only as an ad hoc consultant. I have served as an ad hoc consultant and advisor for a variety of other biotechnology companies since 1982. I respect the right of others to disagree and expect all reputable scientists to present accurate information and honest conclusions. Regardless of the differences of opinions expressed in these letters, I believe that all can agree that the more scientists learn about plants, both within or outside of agriculture, the greater the likelihood that we will develop sustainable methods to meet the challenges of a growing population. Roger N. Beachy Donald Danforth Plant Science Center, St. Louis, MO 63105, USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 9 23:59:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19321 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06116 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:06:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from www14.clever.net (www14.clever.net [209.196.14.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05925 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chitch (r-152.59.alltel.net [166.102.152.59]) by www14.clever.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA19242 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000f01befb38$7ca549a0$3b9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Reply-To: "Jere Hitchcock" From: "Jere Hitchcock" To: Subject: Fighting the wrong enemy Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:59:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEFB16.F3DF42E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2639 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEFB16.F3DF42E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First let me say that I am not an Monsanto fan. =20 =20 Following the debate on GM foods on sagnet has left me with the = impression that the people who are repelled by the genetic changes in = corn and soy for example are driven by religious/spiritual (as the most = recent debates herein) or that only "God" can create or alter life theme = or variation thereof, or some fanatical concerns that the one in 60,000 = genes (their number not mine) in a Brazil or peanut nut will be added to = corn or soy and would destroy their lives. The anti-group prides itself = in trampling test crops in foreign lands. Folks, you have the wrong = enemy... Let the GM groups explore the potential benefits of such work = (if any) and be responsible for their mistakes.=20 =20 If you anti GM folks want to do a service for mankind, why don't 'you = all' come to Georgia and stomp out the some 35,000 acres of tobacco crop = which is a "KNOWN" carcinogenic. We don't even have to guess about this = one. This is a "no brainer." =20 Jere B. Hitchcock www.jcranch.com ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEFB16.F3DF42E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    First let me say that I am not an = Monsanto=20 fan. 
     
    Following the debate on GM foods on = sagnet has=20 left me with the impression that the people who are repelled by the = genetic=20 changes in corn and soy for example are driven by religious/spiritual = (as the=20 most recent debates herein) or that only "God" can create or = alter=20 life theme or variation thereof, or some fanatical concerns that the one = in=20 60,000 genes (their number not mine) in a Brazil or peanut nut will be = added to=20 corn or soy and would destroy their lives.  The anti-group prides = itself in=20 trampling test crops in foreign lands.  Folks, you have the wrong = enemy...=20 Let the GM groups explore the potential benefits of such work (if any) = and be=20 responsible for their mistakes. 
     
    If you anti GM folks want to do a = service for=20 mankind, why don't 'you all' come to Georgia and stomp out the some = 35,000 acres=20 of tobacco crop which is a "KNOWN" carcinogenic.  We = don't even=20 have to guess about this one.  This is a "no=20 brainer."
     
     
    Jere B. Hitchcock
    www.jcranch.com
    ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEFB16.F3DF42E0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 00:03:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19371 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16600 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:19:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16572 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id LAA30345 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:00:14 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id LAA12379 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:36:55 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199909100336.LAA12379@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 10 Sep 99 09:57:53 Subject: New Report Lauds Small Farms To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2640 Small Farms More Productive than Large Farms but Threatened by Trade Agreements The Institute for Food and Development Policy/Food First and the Transnational Institute release a new report: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture In the Context of Global Trade Negotiations By Peter Rosset full text of the report available at: http://www.foodfirst.org/pubs/policybs/pb4.html September 14, 1999 Maastricht, Netherlands -- Small farms are more productive than large farms, yet their continued existence is threatened by international trade agreements, according to a major study released today at a United Nations conference here in Maastricht.* The Institute for Food and Development Policy, also known as "Food First," based in California, USA, and the Transnational Institute, based in The Netherlands, published the study authored by agricultural development specialist Dr. Peter Rosset. Challenging the conventional wisdom that small farms are backward and unproductive, the study shows that small farmers worldwide produce from 2 to 10 times more per unit area than do larger, corporate farmers. "In fact small farms are 'multi-functional' -- more productive, more efficient, and contribute more to economic development than do large farms," said Dr. Rosset, Executive Director of the Institute for Food and Development Policy and the author of the report. Dr. Rosset is an official delegate to the Maastricht conference, representing the Global Forum on Sustainable Food and Nutritional Security, based in Brazil. Communities surrounded by populous small farms have healthier economies than do communities surrounded by depopulated large, mechanized farms, according the study. Small farmers also take better care of natural resources, including reducing soil erosion and conserving biodiversity. Small farmers are better stewards of natural resources, safeguarding the future sustainability of agricultural production. "Despite more than a century of anti-small farmer policies in country after country, in both industrialized and third world countries," said Dr. Rosset, "small farmers not only still cling to the soil but continue to be more productive and more efficient than large, agri-business farming operations. Small farmers offer the best way to feed the world, and the only way to effectively conserve soil resources for future generations." Unfortunately the study shows that today the world's small farmers face unprecedented threats to their livelihoods, thanks to free trade agreements negotiated in recent years. "Free trade causes the prices farmers receive to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them into bankruptcy by the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest can survive, according to the study. The World Trade Organization (WTO) Agreement on Agriculture (AOA), to be negotiated in Seattle, USA, in November, 1999, is the weapon that could deal the final death blow to the world's small farmers, according to Rosset. "The U.S. Government negotiators," said Rosset, himself an American, "have as their goal for Seattle the complete liberalization of trade in farm products." Rosset, and the institutes that published his report, are issuing a call to recognize the true, multiple value of small farms, and to defeat the American government plans for the AOA. "Small farmers are a key resource for our very survival into the future," said Mr. Erik Heijmans, of the Transnational Institute, which co- published the study. "We must oppose trade agreements which place them in jeopardy." * "Cultivating Our Futures," the FAO/Netherlands Conference on the Multifunctional Character of Agriculture and Land, 12-17 September 1999, Maastricht, The Netherlands. Information at: http://www.fao.org/mfcal # # # Food First/The Institute for Food and Development Policy 398 60th Street Oakland, California 94618 USA tel: 510/654-4400 fax: 510/654-4551 foodfirst@foodfirst.org Transnational Institute Paulus Potterstraat 20 1071 DA, Amsterdam The Netherlands Tel: 31-20-6626608 Fax: 31-20-6757176 tni@tni.org Global Forum on Sustainable Food and Nutritional Security SGAN 905 Conjunto "B", Parte "A" 70.790-050 Brasilia, DF Brazil Tel: +55 61 347 4914 Fax: +55 61 347 9002 agora@tba.com.br Anuradha Mittal Policy Director Institute for Food and Development Policy - Food First 398 60th Street, Oakland, CA 94618 USA Phone: (510) 654-4400 Fax: (510) 654-4551 http://www.foodfirst.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 00:28:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19611 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02638 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:44:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02586 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:44:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.137]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA11009 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:37:58 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990909224323.0071f920@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:43:23 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Small farms, more productive, threatened by WTO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id XAA02611 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2641 Small Farms More Productive than Large Farms but Threatened by Trade Agreements The Institute for Food and Development Policy/Food First and the Transnational Institute Release a New Report: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture In the Context of Global Trade Negotiations By Peter Rosset full text of the report available at: http://www.foodfirst.org/pubs/policybs/pb4.html September 14, 1999 Maastricht, Netherlands -- Small farms are more productive than large farms, yet their continued existence is threatened by international trade agreements, according to a major study released today at a United Nations conference here in Maastricht.* The Institute for Food and Development Policy, also known as "Food First," based in California, USA, and the Transnational Institute, based in The Netherlands, published the study authored by agricultural development specialist Dr. Peter Rosset. Challenging the conventional wisdom that small farms are backward and unproductive, the study shows that small farmers worldwide produce from 2 to 10 times more per unit area than do larger, corporate farmers. "In fact small farms are 'multi-functional' -- more productive, more efficient, and contribute more to economic development than do large farms," said Dr. Rosset, Executive Director of the Institute for Food and Development Policy and the author of the report. Dr. Rosset is an official delegate to the Maastricht conference, representing the Global Forum on Sustainable Food and Nutritional Security, based in Brazil. Communities surrounded by populous small farms have healthier economies than do communities surrounded by depopulated large, mechanized farms, according the study. Small farmers also take better care of natural resources, including reducing soil erosion and conserving biodiversity. Small farmers are better stewards of natural resources, safeguarding the future sustainability of agricultural production. "Despite more than a century of anti-small farmer policies in country after country, in both industrialized and third world countries," said Dr. Rosset, "small farmers not only still cling to the soil but continue to be more productive and more efficient than large, agri-business farming operations. Small farmers offer the best way to feed the world, and the only way to effectively conserve soil resources for future generations." Unfortunately the study shows that today the world's small farmers face unprecedented threats to their livelihoods, thanks to free trade agreements negotiated in recent years. "Free trade causes the prices farmers receive to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them into bankruptcy by the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest can survive, according to the study. The World Trade Organization (WTO) Agreement on Agriculture (AOA), to be negotiated in Seattle, USA, in November, 1999, is the weapon that could deal the final death blow to the world's small farmers, according to Rosset. "The U.S. Government negotiators," said Rosset, himself an American, "have as their goal for Seattle the complete liberalization of trade in farm products." Rosset, and the institutes that published his report, are issuing a call to recognize the true, multiple value of small farms, and to defeat the American government plans for the AOA. "Small farmers are a key resource for our very survival into the future," said Mr. Erik Heijmans, of the Transnational Institute, which co- published the study. "We must oppose trade agreements which place them in jeopardy." * "Cultivating Our Futures," the FAO/Netherlands Conference on the Multifunctional Character of Agriculture and Land, 12-17 September 1999, Maastricht, The Netherlands. Information at: http://www.fao.org/mfcal # # # Food First/The Institute for Food and Development Policy 398 60th Street Oakland, California 94618 USA tel: 510/654-4400 fax: 510/654-4551 foodfirst@foodfirst.org Transnational Institute Paulus Potterstraat 20 1071 DA, Amsterdam The Netherlands Tel: 31-20-6626608 Fax: 31-20-6757176 tni@tni.org Global Forum on Sustainable Food and Nutritional Security SGAN 905 Conjunto "B", Parte "A" 70.790-050 Brasilia, DF Brazil Tel: +55 61 347 4914 Fax: +55 61 347 9002 agora@tba.com.br please note my new principal e-mail address: ---------------------------- rosset@foodfirst.org ---------------------------- Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 01:26:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20097 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA15784 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:47:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15758 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19759 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA08704 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:46:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:46:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery on global warming <..> Vertical integration in agribusiness. In-Reply-To: <199909091930.OAA06793@billman.kuntrynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2642 On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > I guess I think it is very hard to read Dennis Avery and not get confused. > I'm never sure whether we are or aren't going to run out of food in his > opinion. I just know whichever side he is on its going to justify big > business rolling on without consequences. Do people see through his logic? > Or does his message work on people similar to the crap that PBS airs as > commercials for ADM. (Their commercial says they are extremely concerned > about feeding the hungry world. That is why they are doubling in size at > least every 5 years.) The true issues surrounding food security and > sustainability are being blurred by the corporate heavy hitters in my > opinion. We see vertical integration in the hog and poultry industries and I hear that, offshore, quietly, it is also happening in field crop production as seed breeders/producers are also buying into farms, land, shipping, warehousing/storage, brokerage all over the world in order to guarantee year-round delivery of product to supermarket chains, depriving American farmers, some local, of that lucrative market. Is it possible that grass/grain/bean farmers in the American Heartland will see increased competition and lowered prices from attempts by big seed companies to become vertically integrated in the field crop (grass/grain/bean/vegetable.fruit) arena? They can produce the seed, grow it overseas or in the US, process/warehouse it/distribute it themselves for sales in the US, thus undercutting American farmers and forcing them into bankruptcy. If they are then able to buy up land from backrupt farmers they can increase their stranglehold on food production. Sal's forwarded article describing problems farmers are having growing GE crops in North Dakota seems to describe yet another mini-array of tools big agribiz can use to drive farmers out of business, especially the organic ones. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 01:27:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20112 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17965 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17907 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19790 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11939 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:51:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:51:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy In-Reply-To: <000f01befb38$7ca549a0$3b9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2643 On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Jere Hitchcock wrote: > Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:59:20 -0400 > From: Jere Hitchcock > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Fighting the wrong enemy > > First let me say that I am not an Monsanto fan. > Following the debate on GM foods on sagnet has left me with the > impression that the people who are repelled by the genetic changes in > corn and soy for example are driven by religious/spiritual (as the I don't think you are reading sanet-mg very closely. Reread the article forwarded by Sal Schettino on the plight of farmers in North Dakota adversely affected by the growing of GE crops. It is not a religious'issue for these folks. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 07:06:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22392 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:06:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09024 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:34:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09012 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu ([157.182.7.97]) by dogwood.telcom.wvu.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8/JLF-19981102) with SMTP id GAA04165; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990910055306.006d6458@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlozier@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:53:06 -0400 To: "Jere Hitchcock" , From: John Lozier Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy In-Reply-To: <000f01befb38$7ca549a0$3b9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2644 Speaking of being responsible, what are the insurance companies doing about covering the potential liabilities of GMO? I've seen it said that limited liability concerns are what humbled nuclear power, and also are affecting developments associated with global warming (eg coastal flooding, etc.) Can anyone give some knowledgeable info about insurance coverage for GMO disasters? Thanks. At 10:59 PM 9/9/99 -0400, Jere Hitchcock wrote: Folks, you have the wrong enemy... Let the GM groups explore the potential benefits of such work (if any) and be responsible for their mistakes. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 07:14:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22430 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:14:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12581 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:43:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12531 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27849 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:42:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp70.green.eri.net [207.90.124.134]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA11883 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008a01befb7b$6d19a920$867c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Farmland Preservation Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:58:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0087_01BEFB59.E504A2E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2645 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BEFB59.E504A2E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, In our area there is a county that recently voted for legislation = that the smallest parcel of land that can be sold off a farm is 40 = acres. This put the brakes on any developement. Anyone that wants to = build has to purchase a 40 acre plot reducing the number of people = finacially able to do that. Furthermore, most people would probably opt = to rent out the remaining acreage. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BEFB59.E504A2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi all,
        In our area there = is a county=20 that recently voted for legislation that the smallest parcel of land = that can be=20 sold off a farm is 40 acres. This put the brakes on any developement. = Anyone=20 that wants to build has to purchase a 40 acre plot reducing the number = of people=20 finacially able to do that. Furthermore, most people would probably opt = to rent=20 out the remaining acreage.
    Paul
    ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01BEFB59.E504A2E0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 08:25:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22922 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27063 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:48:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27054 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s1h3p8 (cust136.tnt1.dial.tor2.uunet.ca [209.47.186.136]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA24121 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:47:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-From: jgold@netrover.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990910075525.007e1990@mail.netrover.com> X-Sender: jgold@mail.netrover.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:55:25 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Jeff Gold Subject: RE: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2646 Try the Nature conservancy at . >----- >From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On >Behalf Of Tad Williams >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:11 PM >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland > > >I am trying to locate information or organizations that work towards >preserving farmland either though land trusts or historical preservation. I >am especially interested in finding out what local and state governments >are doing to support these initiatives. > >Thanks, > > >@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >Tad Williams >Progressive Resources Publications >P.O. Box 11335 >Washington, DC 20008 >202-238-0010; Fax: 202-238-0011 >twilliams@progressivepubs.com > > >http://www.progressivepubs.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 08:35:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23099 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12524 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.2.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12371 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.2.16]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA90161 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncc.uky.edu.uky.edu ([128.163.196.145]) by pop.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03308 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990910080810.006a5610@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: toria@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:08:10 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Victoria Mundy Subject: Searching for organic farmers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2647 Hello everyone, Next spring, January 2000 - April 2000, University of Kentucky Agronomy is offering a class about certified organic agriculture. I'm looking for 3 organic farmers in each SARE region (12 in all) who would be willing to spend just an hour talking to the students over the phone! It would be great if you were involved in a SARE project or have something we could read about your farm. Conversations would be on Tuesdays, from 11am-12:15pm eastern time (yes, they already have next springs calendar of courses out and people are thinking about syllabi!). This class is based on farmer experiences. Students read about farms, talk to farmers, interview KY farmers, and only then do they hit the journals in the library. So we really need you! If you are interested, please email me off-list. Thank you very much, Victoria Mundy PS I'd like to thank, on this public forum, the farmers who talked to us last year. I don't want to pester them by asking them this year too, but I hope they'll email me along with others! ************************************* Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy N106R Ag. Sci. North, UK Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 09:24:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23831 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03591 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:44:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (wvnvm.wvnet.edu [129.71.2.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03574 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Kotcon.CAF.WVU.EDU [157.182.39.119] by WVNVM.WVNET.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:44:27 EDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19990910124211.00f5f1b8@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jkotcon@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:42:11 -0400 To: "Jere Hitchcock" From: James Kotcon Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2648 Jere Hitchcock alleges that opposition to GM crops is driven by religious/spiritual concerns. An artice in Science magazine (16 July, 1999, Vol 285:384-387) reports a scientific survey of attitudes and reaches a similar conclusion: "...respondents with concerns about gene technology tended to think principally in terms of moral acceptability rather than risk-a significant difference from the way in which experts nrmally judge the acceptability of new technologies." The article further notes that those who find GM crops to be morally acceptable in principle, but too risky in practice, account for less than 3 % of the population. Given recent reports documenting ecological risks, I would expect this proportion to grow. These reports appear to strengthen the need for more ecological impact research to better quantify and understand these risks. Nevertheless, I believe the real insight is the distinction between those who assess risks in a technical sense, versus those whose decisions are reached based on moral/ethical grounds. This gap cannot be bridged by more research alone, because one side presents more and more scientific research they believe is convincing, while the other side presents a moral argument that they believe is convincing, and neither side addresses the other's concerns. James Kotcon At 10:59 PM 9/9/99 -0400, you wrote: >First let me say that I am not an Monsanto fan. > >Following the debate on GM foods on sagnet has left me with the impression that the people who are repelled by the genetic changes in corn and soy for example are driven by religious/spiritual (as the most recent debates herein) or that only "God" can create or alter life theme or variation thereof, or some fanatical concerns that the one in 60,000 genes (their number not mine) in a Brazil or peanut nut will be added to corn or soy and would destroy their lives. The anti-group prides itself in trampling test crops in foreign lands. Folks, you have the wrong enemy... Let the GM groups explore the potential benefits of such work (if any) and be responsible for their mistakes. > >If you anti GM folks want to do a service for mankind, why don't 'you all' come to Georgia and stomp out the some 35,000 acres of tobacco crop which is a "KNOWN" carcinogenic. We don't even have to guess about this one. This is a "no brainer." > > >Jere B. Hitchcock >www.jcranch.com > > > > > > > > > >
    First let me say that I am not an Monsanto >fan. 
    >
     
    >
    Following the debate on GM foods on sagnet has >left me with the impression that the people who are repelled by the genetic >changes in corn and soy for example are driven by religious/spiritual (as the >most recent debates herein) or that only "God" can create or alter >life theme or variation thereof, or some fanatical concerns that the one in >60,000 genes (their number not mine) in a Brazil or peanut nut will be added to >corn or soy and would destroy their lives.  The anti-group prides itself in >trampling test crops in foreign lands.  Folks, you have the wrong enemy... >Let the GM groups explore the potential benefits of such work (if any) and be >responsible for their mistakes. 
    >
     
    >
    If you anti GM folks want to do a service for >mankind, why don't 'you all' come to Georgia and stomp out the some 35,000 acres >of tobacco crop which is a "KNOWN" carcinogenic.  We don't even >have to guess about this one.  This is a "no >brainer."
    >
     
    >
     
    > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 09:32:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23960 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13265 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:00:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s2k.itribe.net (s2k.itribe.net [209.49.144.208]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13211 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from picusnet.com (26.dialup03.picus.com [207.7.93.131]) by s2k.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA08812; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D9001E.B91478A4@picusnet.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:57:02 -0400 From: Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-RCN032399 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jere Hitchcock CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy References: <000f01befb38$7ca549a0$3b9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E59B45528134329B2E4E776F" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2649 --------------E59B45528134329B2E4E776F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Let the GM groups explore the potential benefits of such work (if any) > and be responsible for their mistakes. If their 'mistakes' have a negative impact on the environment or food safety, assigning responsibility won't do much good. Sasha --------------E59B45528134329B2E4E776F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    Let the GM groups explore the potential benefits of such work (if any) and be responsible for their mistakes.
    If their 'mistakes' have a negative impact on the environment or food safety, assigning responsibility won't do much good.

    Sasha --------------E59B45528134329B2E4E776F-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 09:42:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24117 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21467 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21380 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bermuda-asy-70.rutgers.edu (bermuda-asy-70.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.198]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA10630; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:02:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: bermuda-asy-70.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.198] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <37D92B1A.6B90@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:00:26 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jere Hitchcock CC: sanet Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy References: <000f01befb38$7ca549a0$3b9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2650 > Following the debate on GM foods on sagnet has left me with the > impression that the people who are repelled by the genetic changes in > corn and soy for example are driven by religious/spiritual (as the > most recent debates herein) or that only "God" can create or alter > life theme or variation thereof, or some fanatical concerns that the > one in 60,000 genes (their number not mine) in a Brazil or peanut nut > will be added to corn or soy and would destroy their lives. Your impression is inaccurate, and is perpetuated by those who want to discredit the opposition. Long, reasoned, detailed, scientific arguments never make the news. > Folks, you have the wrong enemy... Let the GM groups explore the > potential benefits of such work (if any) and be responsible for their > mistakes. There is no meaningful way for them to be "responsible" for their mistakes. No recall is possible. That is the whole point. And the record keeping is not being done to even make it possible to determine said mistakes. > why don't 'you > all' come to Georgia and stomp out the some 35,000 acres of tobacco > crop which is a "KNOWN" carcinogenic. We don't even have to guess > about this one. This is a "no brainer." Tobacco is not working its dastardly deeds while growing in the field! And when one does consume tobacco in one form or another, it is never unknown to the user. One has a choice, both philisophically and practically, because it is physically possible to exercise that choice. I never worry that I will shake dried oregano on to my pizza, but that tobacco will fall on it instead. I don't have to grow all my own food in an enclosed biosphere to avoid consuming tobacco. How shall I exercise my "right" to not consume GE food? Or do I have such a right? How are the ecological effects of someone elses choices to be assessed or contained? How can they be made to be "responsible?" LM To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 09:44:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24146 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:44:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21963 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:17:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21895 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC097104 - 63.14.84.161 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:15:31 -0700 Message-ID: <003501befb8e$8d4fd620$a1540e3f@PC097104> From: "Manning" To: , "Tad Williams" References: <199909091918.PAA05161@chet.brysonweb.com> Subject: Re: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:15:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2651 Tad, Try contacting American Farmland Trust at www.farmland.org . Contact Tim Storrow. Preserving farmland is their goal. And I'm sure they can direct you to others working for that same goal. Patricia Manning ----- Original Message ----- From: Tad Williams To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 1:11 PM Subject: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 09:48:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24272 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25408 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:20:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA25393 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:20:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA24715; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:19:50 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma024436; Fri, 10 Sep 99 08:19:38 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:19:40 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:19:38 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FEF9@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'John Lozier'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Fighting the wrong enemy Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:19:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2652 John, > Can anyone give some knowledgeable info about insurance > coverage for GMO disasters? I guess you would have to define "GMO disaster" before estimating the risk of occurrence, or the cost of coverage. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com Fri Sep 10 10:08:37 1999 Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24583 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-9-31.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.127]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA32288; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:02:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199909101402.JAA32288@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: Re: Avery on global warming <..> Vertical integration in agribusiness. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:06:48 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2653 I think we are starting to see the beginnings of the integration of grain (number 2 yellow corn and soybeans.) I don't think the corporations will ever want to own all the land unless they can severely depress land prices a lot lower level than we can imagine. (Land prices now are way out of line with commodity prices but are actually quite cheap in relation to wages in town.) All they want is control of the commodity and the farmer. They can do that with a production contract on the grain just like they do with chicken and hog serfs. They let the "farmer" invest all the money and they still control all the decisions. They keep these commodity prices at these levels for a while longer and most crop farmers will have no choice but to line up in droves to sign crop production contracts just like the farmers are lining up in droves to sign hog and chicken production contracts. They offered some contracts for corn and beans this spring from what I've heard. Add in the fact that most farmers now are starting to purchase the GMO grains that require purchases of the same companies chemicals. Then these companies are aligning with the sellers so there is only one output for their grain. GMO's make perfect sense for the corporate clusters. They get to sell the chemicals and seed at their price and buy the grain at their price because they are the only bidder. Then watch our government kick in the LDP's for the farmers. No supply control and the corporates have a huge supply of crops that they can sell on the world market for below world prices. Freedom to Farm played right into their hands. I personally think this corporate controlled model is all central planning and will see the same results as the central planning model in the former soviet union. It makes little difference if its a government or a corporate boardroom that steals the will of the people. I've said it too many times before on this listserve and I'll say it again. Its is now or never if we are going to save family scale agriculture. Maybe its not worth saving? I for one do not like the idea of absolutely no commodity market to fall back upon. We keep getting closer to the day that no commodity will be priced before the grocery store. And I still don't buy the idea that most farmers have the skill nor the desire to be direct marketers. Small sustainable farmers can compete quite favorably on cost of production if given an open and competitive market. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog farmer LaGrange, IN ---------- > From: Lawrence F. London, Jr. > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Avery on global warming <..> Vertical integration in agribusiness. > Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 11:46 PM > > > > On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > > > I guess I think it is very hard to read Dennis Avery and not get confused. > > I'm never sure whether we are or aren't going to run out of food in his > > opinion. I just know whichever side he is on its going to justify big > > business rolling on without consequences. Do people see through his logic? > > Or does his message work on people similar to the crap that PBS airs as > > commercials for ADM. (Their commercial says they are extremely concerned > > about feeding the hungry world. That is why they are doubling in size at > > least every 5 years.) The true issues surrounding food security and > > sustainability are being blurred by the corporate heavy hitters in my > > opinion. > > We see vertical integration in the hog and poultry industries and I hear > that, offshore, quietly, it is also happening in field crop production > as seed breeders/producers are also buying into farms, land, shipping, > warehousing/storage, brokerage all over the world in order to guarantee > year-round delivery of product to supermarket chains, depriving American > farmers, some local, of that lucrative market. Is it possible that > grass/grain/bean farmers in the American Heartland will see increased > competition and lowered prices from attempts by big seed companies to > become vertically integrated in the field crop > (grass/grain/bean/vegetable.fruit) arena? They can produce the seed, grow > it overseas or in the US, process/warehouse it/distribute it themselves > for sales in the US, thus undercutting American farmers and forcing them > into bankruptcy. If they are then able to buy up land from backrupt > farmers they can increase their stranglehold on food production. Sal's > forwarded article describing problems farmers are having growing GE crops > in North Dakota seems to describe yet another mini-array of tools big > agribiz can use to drive farmers out of business, especially the organic > ones. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 10:40:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25171 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14413 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:03:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from netmgr.cso.niu.edu (netmgr.cso.niu.edu [131.156.1.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14390 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:03:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wpo.cso.niu.edu (wpo.cso.niu.edu [131.156.1.244]) by netmgr.cso.niu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA27579 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:02:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Domain1-Message_Server by wpo.cso.niu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:02:04 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:01:26 -0500 From: "Esther Day" To: Subject: RE: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2654 Also: American Farmland Trust at www.farmland.org >>> Jeff Gold 09/10/99 06:55am >>> Try the Nature conservancy at . >----- >From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On >Behalf Of Tad Williams >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:11 PM >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Looking for Information on Preserving Farmland > > >I am trying to locate information or organizations that work towards >preserving farmland either though land trusts or historical preservation. I >am especially interested in finding out what local and state governments >are doing to support these initiatives. > >Thanks, > > >@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >Tad Williams >Progressive Resources Publications >P.O. Box 11335 >Washington, DC 20008 >202-238-0010; Fax: 202-238-0011 >twilliams@progressivepubs.com > > >http://www.progressivepubs.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Sep 10 08:35:38 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23118; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15160 for smallfarm-jarude; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:44:13 GMT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:44:13 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199909101044.KAA15160@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2655 ------------------------------------------------ Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk To: Multiple Recipients of the List From: Smallfarm-owner Subject: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE September 1, 1999 Press Contact: Michael Straus Phone: 415-289-6958 Fax: 415-663-8079 e-mail: info@beyondorganic.com www.caff.org 15TH CALIFORNIA FARM CONFERENCE TO CULTIVATE THE FARM-CITY CONNECTION SACRAMENTO, CA - In the wake of staggering statistics showing a loss of 2 acres of U.S. farmland every minute since 1970, the 15th California Farm Conference, entitled "Cultivating the Farm-City Connection", will connect farmers, consumers, educators, food professionals, environmentalist and policy makers in a targeted series of workshops offering concrete solutions to a growing problem. The conference will be held November 7-9 at the Berkeley Marina Radisson Hotel, in Berkeley, CA. Chez Panisse, Olivetto's, and One market, known for their support of local farms, will also prepare a family style Farm to City Celebration Dinner using the finest ingredients from local farms. The meal, which is open to the public as well as Conference registrants, will be hosted by renowned chef/author Bradley Ogden at his San Francisco waterfront restaurant, One Market, on Sunday, November 7th at 7:00 pm. As urban, suburban and rural boundaries collide, the need for a good interface between them is fundamental to the destiny of California's agriculture. While it is inevitable that cities must grow to meet the demand for housing, this year's California Farm Conference will focus on intelligent planning and policies, such as urban agriculture, small scale family farming, and conservation programs that will effect the future of the urban/suburban/farm connection. "It's really hard to grow food in a bed of asphalt. For as long as I've been farming it's been clear to me that it would take a lot more than a ton of manure," said Peter Worsley, organic grower, Inverness, CA. "I think this conference will help all of us understand the complex issues facing us," added Worsley. Consumers are becoming increasingly removed from the agricultural process of growing and producing the food they eat. Many people in urban areas have never set foot on a farm, and the supermarket shopping experience would almost lead one to believe milk is made in a factory, not by cows. Although the vast majority of Californians feel little connection with agriculture, the agricultural economy affects every Californian: + California has the most productive farmland in the United States, producing 55% of our nation's fruits, nuts and vegetables. + Nearly 10% of jobs in California are directly dependent on agricultural production. + 8.5% of California's annual personal income is generated by the farm economy. + Over 30% of all land in California is open space because of working farms and ranches. + We all eat. Agriculture's role in sustaining economic prosperity, independence, and a sense of place is far reaching. Agriculture produces not only the food we eat, the clothes we wear, and the products we work and play with, it also provides rural lands which are a rich cultural legacy, furnishing both open space and wildlife habitat. The three day conference is sponsored by leading California food, agricultural and governmental organizations, including the Community Alliance with Family Farmers (CAFF), the University of California Cooperative Extension (Alameda County), and the California Federation of Certified Farmers' Markets. It is open to the public. For more information on Farm Conference registration and the Farm to City Celebration Dinner call 510-222-5091 or email: kbarzin@compuserve.com -END- -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Sep 7 13:45:12 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16179; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17201 for smallfarm-jarude; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:18:04 GMT Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:18:04 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199909071518.PAA17201@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2656 SECOND NATIONAL SMALL FARM CONFERENCE Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk To: Multiple Recipients of the List From: Smallfarm-owner Subject: For Immediate Release. For More Information Contact: September 7, 1999; Troy Darden (573) 681-5587 Register Now for the Second National Small Farm Conference! Farmers, companies and individuals who work with farmers can still register for the Second National Small Farm Conference (SNSFC), scheduled for October 12-15, 1999 at the Regal Riverfront Hotel in downtown St. Louis, Missouri. Registration for the conference is $125. This price includes meals, conference materials and the educational tours. Some rooms are still available at the Regal Riverfront Hotel through SEPTEMBER 10, at a rate of $66 plus tax. Conference organizers are urging people to make reservations now before the hotel sells out. You can make your hotel reservations by calling the Riverfront Hotel at 1-800-325-7353. Registration packets, consisting of the conference agenda and program schedule, are available by contacting Lincoln University Cooperative Extension at 573-681-5587. The conference web page for the NSFC is complete and includes information on the conference and its sponsors, as well as a printable version of the application for registration. The web address is http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc. The Internet site has received about 200-300 visitors a day since it opened in February. Lincoln University Cooperative Extension (LUCE), University of Missouri Extension and the U.S. Department of Agriculture are organizing the conference. The conference will provide a forum for more than 500 participants to exchange ideas about improving the state of affairs for today's small farmer. Another goal is to establish national and regional small farm databases to strengthen information exchange. The conference will include over 35 sessions, farm tours, reception, and exhibits. Some of the topics to be covered are marketing strategies for small farmers, value-added enterprises, grant writing, entrepreneurial skills training, building farmer networks, and sustainable agriculture. "The conference will address issues of viability that small farmers face everyday," says Marsh. "The conference also holds a significant reward for small farmers wanting to maintain the farm lifestyle." NSFC has gained the support and the sponsorship of many organizations also interested in serving small to mid-sized farmers. The Farm Foundation, W.K. Kellogg Foundation, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (Office of Compliance Assistance), and USDA are among many agencies helping to make the conference successful. For more information, contact Troy Darden at (573) 681-5587. Ms. Troy S. Darden Publications Coordinator Lincoln University Agriculture & Extension Information Center 301 Allen Hall PO Box 29 Jefferson City, MO 65102-0029 573-681-5587 phone 573-681-5546 fax dardent@lincolnu.edu e-mail -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Jun 29 13:53:39 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04540; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:53:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17244 for smallfarm-jarude; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:22:31 GMT Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:22:31 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199906291522.PAA17244@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2657 SECOND NATIONAL SMALL FARM CONFERENCE Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Conference announcements for the Second National Small Farm Conference are now available. If you would like to have a copy mailed to you, please email either Troy Darden (dardent@lincolnu.edu) or myself (Debi Kelly, kellyd@umsystem.edu) or you can access the registration form on the web at: http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc Second National Small Farm Conference THEME: Building Partnerships for the 21st Century WHERE: Regal Riverfront Hotel, St. Louis, MO WHEN: October 12-15, 1999 HOSTS: Lincoln University, Jefferson City, Missouri; University of Missouri-Columbia; USDA-CSREES The Second National Small Farm Conference will provide an opportunity for people in the public and private sectors, including community based organizations, land-grant institutions, small and medium sized farmers to strengthen collaboration and partnerships to work more effectively with the small farm community. Participation is the key to the conference's success. Hands-on workshops, open forum discussions, and participant-organized networking sessions will be key features of the conference. Some of the issues that participants will address include: marketing strategies, value added enterprises, grant writing, business and entrepreneurial skills, farmer-to-farmer and beginning farmer networks. SPONSORS: Lincoln University, Jefferson City; University of Missouri-Columbia; W. K. Kellogg Foundation; Farm Foundation; U.S. Environmental Protection Agency;U.S. Department of Agriculture--Agricultural Research Service; Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service, Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program; Farm Service Agency; Foreign Agricultural Service; Forest Service; National Office of Outreach; National Agricultural Statistics Service; Natural Resources Conservation Service; and Rural Development. Ask me about the 2nd National Small Farm Conference October 12-15, 1999 St Louis MO http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc debi kelly MAC Ms. Troy S. Darden, AEIC, 301 Allen Hall, Lincoln University, PO Box 29, Jefferson City, MO, 65102-0029, PH: 573-681-5587, F: 573-681-5546, dardent@lincolnu.edu Debi Kelly, Project Manager, Missouri Alternatives Center, University of Missouri, 531 Clark Hall, Columbia, MO 65211, 573-882-1905, 800-433-3704 (MO only), kellyd@umsystem.edu, http://agebb.missouri.edu/mac "There's no need to sustain the farm if there's no family to be sustained upon it." -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Jul 7 08:57:06 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA19686; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15091 for smallfarm-jarude; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:44:18 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:44:18 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199907071044.KAA15091@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2658 Please share with appropriate contacts Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT CHALLENGE GRANTS --Requests for Proposals 99/00 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 09:18:04 +0500 Subject: Sus Dev Challenge Grants RFP 99/00 Reply-to: gcrosby@reeusda.gov Priority: normal http://www.epa.gov/ecocommunity/sdcg/ NOTE: This summary is provided to help users understand the contents of the full document. Please see the full text of the Federal Register notice (published July 1, 1999) for complete information about applying for a Sustainable Development Challenge Grant. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY [FRL-6370-4] Sustainable Development Challenge Grant Program AGENCY: Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). ACTION: Solicitation of proposals for FY 1999/2000. SUMMARY: The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is soliciting proposals for the combined FY 1999/2000 Sustainable Development Challenge Grant (SDCG) program, one of President Clinton's "high priority" actions described in the March 16, 1995 report, "Reinventing Environmental Regulation." EPA also is soliciting comments on the SDCG program's overall design. The EPA anticipates that approximately $9.4 million will be available for the SDCG program in FY 1999/2000. This includes $4.7 million already authorized by Congress for FY 1999 and an additional $4.7 million requested for the program in the President's FY 2000 Budget Request and subject to Congressional authorization. The SDCG program challenges communities to invest in a sustainable future that links environmental protection, economic prosperity and community well-being. It provides an opportunity to develop place-based approaches to problem solving that can be replicated in other communities. The SDCG program strongly encourages community members, business and government entities to work cooperatively to develop flexible, locally-oriented approaches that link place-based environmental management and quality of life activities with sustainable development and revitalization. These grants are intended to catalyze community- based projects to promote environmentally and economically sustainable development; build partnerships which increase a community's capacity to take steps that will ensure the long-term health of ecosystems and humans, economic vitality, and community well-being; and leverage public and private investments to enhance environmental quality by enabling community efforts to continue beyond the period of EPA funding. EPA will select projects on a competitive basis using the criteria outlined in the section titled "SDCG Program Criteria." Applicants may compete for funding from EPA in two ranges for FY 1999/2000: (1) requesting $30,000 to $100,000 with a total project budget of $125,000 or less and (2) requesting between $100,001 and $250,000 with no limit on the total project budget amount. Proposals will compete with other proposals in the same range (i.e., a proposal for $30,000-$100,000 will not compete with a proposal requesting $100,001-$250,000). Applicants in each category are required to provide a minimum 20% match from non- federal funding sources. This document includes the following: background information on the Sustainable Development Challenge Grant program; the process for preparing and submitting proposals; a description of the FY 1999/2000 program; the program's relationship to other related EPA activities; the SDCG Program Criteria; and the selection and award process. DATES: The period for submission of proposals for FY 1999/2000 will begin upon publication of this Federal Register document. Project proposals must be postmarked by September 29, 1999 to be considered for funding. -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Jul 21 23:38:28 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18259; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:09:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14021 for smallfarm-jarude; Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:54:33 GMT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:54:33 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199907211454.OAA14021@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2659 INTERNSHIP OPPORTUNITY! Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Wagbo Peace Center has openings for interns in sustainable agriculture. Wagbo Peace Center is an experiential education center teaching peaceable, sustainable living with emphases on nonviolence and sustainable agriculture. Internships focus on hands-on application of small-scale sustainable agriculture methods. Activities for late summer and fall will include: organic produce gardening with CSA marketing program, rough construction, composting, bee keeping, firewood, saw milling, canning, woodshop work, farmers market, youth-at-risk apprenticeship students, as well as daily chores and livestock care, general farm maintenance and daily work with draft horses. Required skills include good communication and public relations (customers, school tours, etc.), willingness to work at a production level, physical strength, ability to work independently or with a group, and a desire to make Wagbo's mission your priority during your internship. Farming skills will be taught, prior experience in some form of farming is helpful but not required. Housing, food produced on-site, and a $200 per month stipend are provided. Internship positions are available beginning in August or September, 1999. Requested commitment is 3-4 months (through December 18, minimum). To request an application, send your name and mailing address to: Rick & Tracy Meisterheim, Wagbo Peace Center, 5745 North M-66, East Jordan, MI 49727, 616-536-0333 phone, 616-536-0396 fax, wagbo@juno.com -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Jul 28 09:09:04 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id JAA17293; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA10783 for smallfarm-jarude; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:02:07 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:02:07 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199907281102.LAA10783@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2660 PERMACULTURE CERTIFICATION COURSES Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Dear Friends of Farmers and Gardeners! We are the non-profit International Institute of Ecological Agriculture and under the guidance of our President, "Farmer" Dave Blume, we have been teaching Permaculture certification and related classes for over a decade nationwide. We are also working farmers: we run Our Farm, a Community Supported Agriculture Project in Woodside, California. We are hoping you can help us get the word out about our upcoming classes to your members, people in your community, readers, etc. through your resources, email, or website. And we would also appreciate it if you could link to our website: www.permaculture.com . We would be happy to list you as a sponsor in exchange and hand out your materials at our class. I am forwarding a blurb about the classes, a bio of who we are and an article entitled "What is Permaculture?". Please edit as you like and let me know if you would like to talk with Dave Blume personally. He is an experienced speaker and a great interview. Also, I will be happy to send you some more info if you need it. All classes are open to any interested students. Thanks: Doreen Nagle, 415.454-2521 phone and fax. TWO WEEK PERMACULTURE CERTIFICATION COURSES REGISTERING NOW MONTANA: INDIAN RESERVATION August 28 - September 12 NEW YORK: Upstate STAATSBURG, NEW YORK October 18 - November 1 1) A very rare opportunity! I.I.E.A. is honored to be selected to head this special class. Students from outside the reservation will live on the one million acre Black Foot Nation reservation at the foot of Glacier National Park in Montana while learning and designing a Permaculture site side-by-side with the Native American reservation residents. This course will also teach how to reduce the reservation residents' high incidence of diabetes through Pemaculture techniques and prepare for the melting off of the glaciers which supply the reservation with water. Students will also learn how to create their own energy source. The entire group will practice their new skills through the creation of a group Permaculture design. 2) Lush, Beautiful Breezy Hills Orchard in upstate New York has been the location for Martha Stewart and her TV crew, and now they have asked us to host a Permaculture class so they can add a Permaculture Design to their already impressive accomplishments. A great hands-on chance to learn this valuable technique. Join us! From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Jul 28 13:21:19 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA23445; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15739 for smallfarm-jarude; Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:30:26 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:30:26 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199907281430.OAA15739@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2661 USDA SMALL BUSINESS INNOVATION RESEARCH (SBIR) PROGRAM Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Phase I Closing Date: September 2, 1999 Phase II Closing Date: February 10, 2000 Telephone: 202-401-4002 SBIR website: www.reeusda.gov/sbir The USDA SBIR program has issued its request for proposals for FY 2000 with a proposal receipt date of September 2, 1999. The SBIR program supports high quality R & D proposals that contain advanced concepts related to important agricultural problems and opportunities that could lead to significant public benefit. The objectives of the SBIR program are to: 1) Stimulate technological innovation in the private sector. 2) Strengthen the role of small businesses in meeting Federal R & D needs. 3) Increase private sector commercialization of important innovations, including those derived from R & D efforts supported by the USDA and other Federal agencies. 4) Foster and encourage the participation of minority and disadvantaged small business firms in technological innovation. The SBIR program consists of three phases: 1) Phase I - limited to 6 months and $70,000 and focused on proving scientific feasibility. 2) Phase II - limited to two years and $275,000 and represents principal R & D effort. Only Phase I winners are eligible to apply for a Phase II grant. 3) Phase III - pursue commercial applications of SBIR-sponsored Phase I and Phase II research using private sector funds or non-SBIR Federal funds. The USDA SBIR program accepts proposals in nine different topic areas: 1) Forests and Related Resources 2) Plant Production and Protection 3) Animal Production and Protection 4) Air, Water and Soils 5) Food Science and Nutrition 6) Rural and Community Development 7) Aquaculture 8) Industrial Applications 9) Marketing and Trade Only legitimate small businesses (less than 500 employees) can apply to the SBIR program. University personnel, however, can participate through a subcontract agreement. The regulations stipulate that for Phase I grants a maximum of 33% of the grant can be allocated to a subcontract. In Phase II this increases to 50%. Thus, a university faculty member could receive up to $23,100 on a $70,000 Phase I grant and up to $137,500 on a $275,000 Phase II grant. Further information about the USDA SBIR program, including the FY 2000 Program Solicitation and Technical Abstracts of past awards, can be obtained from the SBIR home page at www.reeusda.gov/sbir. For a printed copy of the FY 2000 Program Solicitation or for Technical Abstracts, please complete the request form on the reverse side and mail or fax your request to: Dr. Charles F. Cleland Director USDA SBIR Program STOP 2243 1400 Independence Ave., SW Washington, DC 20250-2243 202/401-4002 FAX: 202/401-6070 Request Form for USDA SBIR Program Solicitation and Technical Abstracts If you would like a printed copy of the FY 2000 Program Solicitation or the Technical Abstracts for FY 1999 or earlier, please provide your complete address below. NAME: COMPANY: ADDRESS: CITY: STATE: ZIPCODE: Check the items you wish to receive: FY 2000 Program Solicitation FY 1999 Technical Abstracts FY 1998 Technical Abstracts FY 1997 Technical Abstracts FY 1996 Technical Abstracts Other (specify) Please mail or fax this form to: Dr. Charles F. Cleland Director USDA SBIR Program STOP 2243 1400 Independence Ave., SW Washington, DC 20250-2243 202/401-4002 FAX: 202/401-6070 -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Jul 29 08:51:51 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA22655; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15844 for smallfarm-jarude; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:46:41 GMT Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:46:41 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199907291046.KAA15844@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2662 GUNTHROP'S 3rd ANNUAL FIELD DAY & SAFE PICNIC Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk We would like to invite you to attend our 3rd Annual Field Day and the 1st Annual SAFE Picnic! The festivities will take place on Saturday, August 21, 1999, beginning at 2:00 p.m. with a hog roast. This will be followed by an informal educational session on alternative and low investment livestock production, organic production, consumer concerns, and the obstacles faced by small farms today. We will end the day by climbing aboard the hay wagons for a tour of our farm. SAFE (Sustainable Agriculture for Everyone) is a regional membership organization of family farmers, food processors, consumers, and health care professionals committed to the development of a sustainable food system that supports healthy lifestyles, profitable family farms, a clean environment and prosperous local communities. We currently have about 50 members in the area. My husband had the opportunity to serve on the USDAAEs Small Farm Commission, and this helped to broaden his view on the changes taking place in agriculture today. As agriculture continues to consolidate, successful small farms are becoming few and far between. We have been fortunate to have a low-input production method passed on from generation to generation. Now we would like to share our methods and ideas with others, in order to help to sustain the rural communities that are so important to American society. We raise between 1,000-1,200 pigs per year on our 60 acre farm. We have a pasture-based production system that sets our operation apart from the majority of hog farms today. Our hogs get a substantial portion of their diets from pasture in the spring and summer and by gleaning corn, bean, and wheat fields in the fall and winter. Not only does this reduce our feed bill, but it also produces healthy animals that donAEt require antibiotics. Another added benefit of our production methods is the quality of our pork. This has allowed us to provide a diversified product to a very critical group of consumers. At our field day last year, we had people in attendance at our field day from 5 different states as well as 2 foreign countries. This year our guest list includes members of the USDA and other state & federal government officials, farm organization officers, chefAEs from the Midwest, the media, and consumers. We hope to give different individuals a chance to speak up about what they are doing to promote IndianaAEs family farms, what they would like to see done, some of the obstacles they face, and hopefully, how they have cleared some of the hurdles. Our farm is located in LaGrange, Indiana, about 8 miles south of the toll road (80/90) and 12 miles West of I-69. Please call for further directions, if needed. We hope to see you on the 21st! Sincerely, Greg & Lei Gunthorp (219) 367-2708 -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Jul 29 08:52:00 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id IAA22659; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 08:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14491 for smallfarm-jarude; Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:37:36 GMT Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:37:36 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199907291037.KAA14491@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2663 USDA Scientific Cooperation and Research Program Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk The United States Department of Agriculture's annual Scientific Cooperation and Research Program funds short-term visits (4 weeks, $5,000 limit) of a U.S. scientist to a foreign institution or of the foreign scientist to the U.S.; long-term visits (maximum of one year, and $5,000) or longer-term research collaboration (1-3 years, $10,000 per year limit). Applications must be made by the U.S. institution and can be proposed for collaboration with colleagues in any country with which the U.S. has diplomatic relationships. Scientists must be located at an appropriate research institution, which includes the International Agricultural Research Centers, in the partner country. The proposed research must have mutual benefits, and be related to specific target areas in agriculture and forestry. The target subject areas for the 2000 proposals are: Value-Added New Products and Associated Topics; Collection, Preservation, and Characterization of Plant, Animal, and Microbial Germplasm; Environment and Natural Resources; Nutrition and Food Safety; and International Agricultural Trade. Submission deadlines for proposals is September 4, 1999. Application information is available from the USDA, International Cooperation and Development, Research and Scientific Exchanges Division, South Building, Room 3230, Washington, DC 20250-1091, Telephone: (202)720-3282 (Helen Neil), neil@fas.usda.gov or FAX: (202)690-1955. Also, check out the following website: www.fas.usda.gov/icd/grants/scrp.htm -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Aug 5 12:45:39 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA15267; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04377 for smallfarm-jarude; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:11:15 GMT Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:11:15 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199908051411.OAA04377@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2664 SECOND NATIONAL SMALL FARM CONFERENCE Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk The Second National Small Farm Conference will be held Oct 12-15, 1999 at the Regal RiverFront Hotel in St. Louis, MO. Theme: Building Partnerships for the 21st Century Audience: Providers of information for small and mid-sized farmers; and interested small farmers Registration: $100 before Aug 16th; $125 after Aug 16th Sponsored by: USDA, Lincoln University, University of MO, Farm Foundation, W.K Kellogg Foundation and US EPA (Office of Agriculture Compliance Assistance Center). Please check out the descriptions and pictures of the farm tours that have been scheduled for Thursday afternoon of the conference at the farm tours' website: http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc/tourshome.asp CONFERENCE WEBSITE: www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc If you have any questions concerning conference registration, please contact: Troy Darden Lincoln Cooperative Extension Program P. O. Box 29 Jefferson City, MO 65102 Phone: 573-681-5587 Fax: 573-681-5546 E-mail: dardent@lincolnu.edu Forwarded By: Denis Ebodaghe National Program Leader for Small Farms USDA-CSREES Washington, DC 20250 CSREES Small Farm Program Website: http://www.reeusda.gov/smallfarm -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Aug 13 10:32:53 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2] (may be forged)) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA11311; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16271 for smallfarm-jarude; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:26:19 GMT Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:26:19 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199908131226.MAA16271@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2665 SMALL FARM SUCCESS STORIES Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk If you would like to share a success story on small farm endeavors, please send a one-page write-up in a 12 font-type so it can be shared at the Second National Small Farm Conference to be held in St. Louis, October 12-15, 1999 at the Regal Riverfront Hotel. In 1996, at the First National Small Farm Conference, we had a 37-page report that was shared at the conference, and the title was Small Farms: Success Stories/Impacts. Each submission was one page and we had several feedbacks from many states. We need reports on small farm efforts that have made a difference in the economic, social, or technical performance of the small farm community such as increase in income level, higher standard of living, adoption of alternative practices, adoption of new crops, improvements in recordkeeping, farm management, marketing strategies, etc. In your write-up, please identify the problem addressed by the project, the methods used to address the problem/challenge, and the changes that came about as a result of the activity or activities. It will also be helpful if you can identify specific elements or methods that contributed to the outcome of the project. Any questions concerning the format of the write-up can be directed to me, Denis Ebodaghe at 202-401-4385, e-mail: debodaghe or to Nelson Escobar at 202-401-4900, e-mail: eescobar@reeusda.gov Please send your write-up by fax or e-mail. Please do not send it as an attachment. Title of write-up should be on the first line of the page, followed by name, and contact information of sender such as mailing address, phone, fax and e-mail, then your write-up all on the same page. DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSIONS: SEPTEMBER 17, 1999 PLEASE SEND YOUR SUBMISSIONS TO: CSREES Small Farm Program Fax: 202-401-5179 E-mail: sfp@reeusda.gov Mailing address: Stop 2220 1400 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20250-2220 DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSION: SEPTEMBER 17, 1999 Thanks Denis Ebodaghe National Program Leader for Small Farms USDA-CSREES Phone: 202-401-4385 Fax: 202-401-5179 E-mail: debodaghe@reeusda.gov CSREES Website: www.reeusda.gov/smallfarm -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Aug 23 18:42:11 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14363; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA18769 for smallfarm-jarude; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:21:05 GMT Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:21:05 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199908232021.UAA18769@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2666 Ag. News from the Ag. Center Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk Here's the latest news from EPA's National Agriculture Compliance Assistance Center -- we hope you'll find items of interest that will be useful to you and your clients. This regular update is being sent to you, at your request, to notify you that the Ag Center has added new information to its web site -- http://www.epa.gov/oeca/ag/. Make Your Voice Heard -- Click on the "banner" at the top of the Ag Center's home page to see a list of EPA proposed actions for which public comment is invited. Or go directly to http://www.epa.gov/oeca/ag/napr.html You will find brief summaries of the proposals, comment deadlines, and links to more information. Ag Center Offers More Fact Sheets -- The Ag Center has added new or updated versions of several fact sheets to its list of available publications. Six new species-specific Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation fact sheets are companions to the earlier "CAFO Permit Requirements -- General" (Ag Center document no. 11001). They cover slaughter and feeder cattle, dairy cattle, horses, sheep, swine, and poultry. The Worker Protection Standard fact sheets are not new titles, but are being offered in an updated graphic design format. You can order the fact sheets now through the Center's "fax-back" system, and you will soon be able to view them on the web site -- we will keep you posted. The number to call for the fact sheets, and for other up-to-date information on environmental requirements that affect agriculture, is 1-888-663-2155. This is a toll-free number. Callers can request that documents be faxed or sent by mail, or can choose to talk to an Ag Center representative. For a complete list of what's available through the fax-on-demand system, ask for document 10001 -- Ag Center Publications. Worker Protection fact sheets include, for example: 22014 WPS -- Posted Warnings 22002 WPS -- Closed Systems Among the new CAFO listings are: 11017 CAFO Permit Requirements -- Slaughter/Feeder Cattle 11019 CAFO Permit Requirements -- Swine 11016 CAFO Permit Requirements -- Poultry 11014 CAFO Permit Requirements -- Dairy New items on the Ag Center's Compliance News page -- August 6 -- EPA Releases Draft Guidance for Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations Permits; Seeks Comments August 2 -- EPA Acts To Reduce Children's Exposures to Methyl Parathion and Azinphos Methyl July 30 -- EPA Issues First-of-its-Kind Discharge Permit to MA Dairy Farm -- EPA/USDA Workshop on Bacillus thuringiensis Crop Resistance Management -- Recent EPA Actions on Pesticide Tolerances: Zinc Phosphide Diuron Fenbutatin Formaldehyde Imidacloprid Propiconazole Pyriproxyfen Azoxystrobin -- 80 OP Pesticide Tolerances Considered Reassessed by EPA Thank you for your interest in the Ag Center. We welcome your feedback -- you can comment on this or any of the services of the Ag Center via the *comment* feature at the web site. URL: http://www.epa.gov/oeca/ag/comment.html You can unsubscribe to this list by sending the command unsubscribe agcenter in the body of an email message to the listserver at listserver@unixmail.rtpnc.epa.gov To subscribe to this list, send the command subscribe agcenter Firstname Lastname (Your first name and last name) in the body of an email message to the listserver at listserver@unixmail.rtpnc.epa.gov For additional listserver information, send the command help in the body of an email message to the listserver at listserver@unixmail.rtpnc.epa.gov Ginah K. Mortensen, Director National Agriculture Compliance Assistance Center U.S. Environmental Protection Agency 726 Minnesota Avenue Kansas City, KS 66101 Toll-free: 1-888-663-2155 Fax: 913-551-7270 Internet: http://www.epa.gov/oeca/ag -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Sep 7 13:45:12 1999 -0400 Received: from maat.reeusda.gov ([192.73.224.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16179; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by maat.reeusda.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA17201 for smallfarm-jarude; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:18:04 GMT Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:18:04 GMT From: owner-smallfarm@maat.reeusda.gov Message-Id: <199909071518.PAA17201@maat.reeusda.gov> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2667 SECOND NATIONAL SMALL FARM CONFERENCE Sender: owner-smallfarm@reeusda.gov Precedence: bulk To: Multiple Recipients of the List From: Smallfarm-owner Subject: For Immediate Release. For More Information Contact: September 7, 1999; Troy Darden (573) 681-5587 Register Now for the Second National Small Farm Conference! Farmers, companies and individuals who work with farmers can still register for the Second National Small Farm Conference (SNSFC), scheduled for October 12-15, 1999 at the Regal Riverfront Hotel in downtown St. Louis, Missouri. Registration for the conference is $125. This price includes meals, conference materials and the educational tours. Some rooms are still available at the Regal Riverfront Hotel through SEPTEMBER 10, at a rate of $66 plus tax. Conference organizers are urging people to make reservations now before the hotel sells out. You can make your hotel reservations by calling the Riverfront Hotel at 1-800-325-7353. Registration packets, consisting of the conference agenda and program schedule, are available by contacting Lincoln University Cooperative Extension at 573-681-5587. The conference web page for the NSFC is complete and includes information on the conference and its sponsors, as well as a printable version of the application for registration. The web address is http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc. The Internet site has received about 200-300 visitors a day since it opened in February. Lincoln University Cooperative Extension (LUCE), University of Missouri Extension and the U.S. Department of Agriculture are organizing the conference. The conference will provide a forum for more than 500 participants to exchange ideas about improving the state of affairs for today's small farmer. Another goal is to establish national and regional small farm databases to strengthen information exchange. The conference will include over 35 sessions, farm tours, reception, and exhibits. Some of the topics to be covered are marketing strategies for small farmers, value-added enterprises, grant writing, entrepreneurial skills training, building farmer networks, and sustainable agriculture. "The conference will address issues of viability that small farmers face everyday," says Marsh. "The conference also holds a significant reward for small farmers wanting to maintain the farm lifestyle." NSFC has gained the support and the sponsorship of many organizations also interested in serving small to mid-sized farmers. The Farm Foundation, W.K. Kellogg Foundation, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (Office of Compliance Assistance), and USDA are among many agencies helping to make the conference successful. For more information, contact Troy Darden at (573) 681-5587. Ms. Troy S. Darden Publications Coordinator Lincoln University Agriculture & Extension Information Center 301 Allen Hall PO Box 29 Jefferson City, MO 65102-0029 573-681-5587 phone 573-681-5546 fax dardent@lincolnu.edu e-mail -- To Subscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- subscribe smallfarm To Unsubscribe Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov In the body, type -- unsubscribe smallfarm From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 11:41:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26581 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21281 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:09:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21268 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-9-31.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.127]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA32288; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:02:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199909101402.JAA32288@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: Re: Avery on global warming <..> Vertical integration in agribusiness. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:06:48 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2668 I think we are starting to see the beginnings of the integration of grain (number 2 yellow corn and soybeans.) I don't think the corporations will ever want to own all the land unless they can severely depress land prices a lot lower level than we can imagine. (Land prices now are way out of line with commodity prices but are actually quite cheap in relation to wages in town.) All they want is control of the commodity and the farmer. They can do that with a production contract on the grain just like they do with chicken and hog serfs. They let the "farmer" invest all the money and they still control all the decisions. They keep these commodity prices at these levels for a while longer and most crop farmers will have no choice but to line up in droves to sign crop production contracts just like the farmers are lining up in droves to sign hog and chicken production contracts. They offered some contracts for corn and beans this spring from what I've heard. Add in the fact that most farmers now are starting to purchase the GMO grains that require purchases of the same companies chemicals. Then these companies are aligning with the sellers so there is only one output for their grain. GMO's make perfect sense for the corporate clusters. They get to sell the chemicals and seed at their price and buy the grain at their price because they are the only bidder. Then watch our government kick in the LDP's for the farmers. No supply control and the corporates have a huge supply of crops that they can sell on the world market for below world prices. Freedom to Farm played right into their hands. I personally think this corporate controlled model is all central planning and will see the same results as the central planning model in the former soviet union. It makes little difference if its a government or a corporate boardroom that steals the will of the people. I've said it too many times before on this listserve and I'll say it again. Its is now or never if we are going to save family scale agriculture. Maybe its not worth saving? I for one do not like the idea of absolutely no commodity market to fall back upon. We keep getting closer to the day that no commodity will be priced before the grocery store. And I still don't buy the idea that most farmers have the skill nor the desire to be direct marketers. Small sustainable farmers can compete quite favorably on cost of production if given an open and competitive market. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog farmer LaGrange, IN ---------- > From: Lawrence F. London, Jr. > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: Avery on global warming <..> Vertical integration in agribusiness. > Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 11:46 PM > > > > On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > > > I guess I think it is very hard to read Dennis Avery and not get confused. > > I'm never sure whether we are or aren't going to run out of food in his > > opinion. I just know whichever side he is on its going to justify big > > business rolling on without consequences. Do people see through his logic? > > Or does his message work on people similar to the crap that PBS airs as > > commercials for ADM. (Their commercial says they are extremely concerned > > about feeding the hungry world. That is why they are doubling in size at > > least every 5 years.) The true issues surrounding food security and > > sustainability are being blurred by the corporate heavy hitters in my > > opinion. > > We see vertical integration in the hog and poultry industries and I hear > that, offshore, quietly, it is also happening in field crop production > as seed breeders/producers are also buying into farms, land, shipping, > warehousing/storage, brokerage all over the world in order to guarantee > year-round delivery of product to supermarket chains, depriving American > farmers, some local, of that lucrative market. Is it possible that > grass/grain/bean farmers in the American Heartland will see increased > competition and lowered prices from attempts by big seed companies to > become vertically integrated in the field crop > (grass/grain/bean/vegetable.fruit) arena? They can produce the seed, grow > it overseas or in the US, process/warehouse it/distribute it themselves > for sales in the US, thus undercutting American farmers and forcing them > into bankruptcy. If they are then able to buy up land from backrupt > farmers they can increase their stranglehold on food production. Sal's > forwarded article describing problems farmers are having growing GE crops > in North Dakota seems to describe yet another mini-array of tools big > agribiz can use to drive farmers out of business, especially the organic > ones. > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 12:13:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27330 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01813 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:32:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from spamraaa.compuserve.com (as-img-rel-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.142]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01781 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id LAA15752 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.192.111.49] (mid-qbu-nqx-vty2.as.wcom.net [216.192.116.2]) by spamraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with ESMTP id LAA15697 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: LawsonValentine@pop.site1.csi.com Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:30:53 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Lucy Miller Subject: Vertical Integration vs. New Report Lauds Small Farms Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2669 Greg Gunthorp says: > Small sustainable farmers can compete quite favorably on >cost of production if given an open and competitive market. Food First says: >"Free trade causes the prices farmers receive >to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them into bankruptcy by >the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest can survive, >according to the study. > >The World Trade Organization (WTO) Agreement on Agriculture (AOA), to be >negotiated in Seattle, USA, in November, 1999, is the weapon that could >deal the final death blow to the world's small farmers, according to >Rosset. "The U.S. Government negotiators," said Rosset, himself an >American, "have as their goal for Seattle the complete liberalization of >trade in farm products. . . . We must oppose trade agreements which >place them in jeopardy." Hmm. . . Does Greg's open and competitive market equate with the WTO's free trade? Or are the definitions quite different? If the latter, did Food First miss a trick by not making the distinction? Seems to me they (we!) ought to be making Greg's point, which I think was that "free trade" and "global corporate hegemony" are not quite the same. Lucy Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 13:06:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28591 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:06:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04702 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:36:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04565 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-13-4.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.196]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA08565; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:28:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199909101628.LAA08565@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: , "Lucy Miller" Subject: Re: Vertical Integration vs. New Report Lauds Small Farms Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:33:03 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2670 I am talking about a completely different thing than the free trade people talk about. When I talk about open and competitive markets I'm talking about price discovery, mandatory price reporting or some information mechanism, non-discriminatory practices for volume, abuse of regulations that discriminate against new or small processors, food prices having no correlation to commodity production because of concentration, etc. I'm basically saying I don't like the trend towards food ONLY being priced at the grocery store. They are trying to cut the non-contracted production from small farms entirely out of the food chain. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp ---------- > From: Lucy Miller > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Vertical Integration vs. New Report Lauds Small Farms > Date: Friday, September 10, 1999 10:30 AM > > Greg Gunthorp says: > > > Small sustainable farmers can compete quite favorably on > >cost of production if given an open and competitive market. > > Food First says: > >"Free trade causes the prices farmers receive > >to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them into bankruptcy by > >the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest can survive, > >according to the study. > > > >The World Trade Organization (WTO) Agreement on Agriculture (AOA), to be > >negotiated in Seattle, USA, in November, 1999, is the weapon that could > >deal the final death blow to the world's small farmers, according to > >Rosset. "The U.S. Government negotiators," said Rosset, himself an > >American, "have as their goal for Seattle the complete liberalization of > >trade in farm products. . . . We must oppose trade agreements which > >place them in jeopardy." > > > Hmm. . . Does Greg's open and competitive market equate with the > WTO's free trade? Or are the definitions quite different? If the > latter, did Food First miss a trick by not making the distinction? > Seems to me they (we!) ought to be making Greg's point, which I think > was that "free trade" and "global corporate hegemony" are not quite > the same. > > Lucy Miller > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 22:15:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07986 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19287 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:43:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from www14.clever.net (www14.clever.net [209.196.14.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19283 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chitch (r-152.58.alltel.net [166.102.152.58]) by www14.clever.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA25405; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001701befbf6$0fde3520$3a9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Reply-To: "Jere Hitchcock" From: "Jere Hitchcock" To: Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:36:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2671 Loren, Thanks for you response. We seem to differ on some major concepts. Your response: Tobacco is not working its dastardly deeds while growing in the field! Reply: If it wasn't growing then we would have a such a high rate of cancer. (Quoted by some to be 1 in 2 ). Brother, that is dastardly by definition. Your response: And when one does consume tobacco in one form or another, it is never unknown to the user. Reply: While my mother never smoked in her life, she was forced to work in a smoke ladened environment. This, I am very certain has contributed to her emphysema that she suffers from today. So it is "forced upon" those of us who do not intend, nor want, to inhale the smoke but because we do not have an option of not breathing the air surrounding us, we will suffer from "second hand smoke." Your response: One has a choice, both philosophically and practically, because it is physically possible to exercise that choice. I never worry that I will shake dried oregano on to my pizza, but that tobacco will fall on it instead. Reply: Well when I go for pizza I risk the contact with second hand smoke. Exactly what would you do or can you do when you are eating and the inconsiderate person at the next table is smoking and blowing the smoke your direction. I opted for clean air but instead I get smoke ladened air which again has been proven to be carcinogenic Your response: I don't have to grow all my own food in an enclosed biosphere to avoid consuming tobacco. Reply: Well the only way we can get away from smoke from others is to do just that, live in an enclosed biosphere. Your Response: How shall I exercise my "right" to not consume GE food? Or do I have such a right? Reply: You have a much better chance avoiding the GE foods than I have of avoiding "second hand smoke" from others. Now that I have refuted each of your lines of reasoning, are you now ready to come to Georgia and stomp out some tobacco fields? As a post script: I contacted the Secretary of Agriculture in the State of Georgia and specifically asked if we could require farmers to list the ingredients fed to animals for human consumption--specifically hormones, steroids, antibiotics and animal by-products. His response was that it was an impractical and impossible thing to do. If you are interested in the exact verbiage I will be glad to fax a copy of the letter to you attention. Jere B. Hitchcock Danielsville, Georgia 706.789.2915 www.jcranch.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Sep 10 22:15:26 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07987 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08693 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:28:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08562; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA17555; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14283; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:36:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.pointer X-Conference: panna.pointer From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Resource Pointer #219 To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 89 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2672 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Resource Pointer #219 September 10, 1999 For copies of the following resources, please contact the appropriate publishers or organizations directly. *1999 NEHA Right-to-Know Conference and Exhibition* October 25- 28, 1999, Denver, CO. Organized by National Environmental Health Association (NEHA) in cooperation with U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Includes presentations on links between Toxics Release Inventory (TRI) data and accidental chemical releases; role of health care providers in providing environmental information to the public; uses of Right-to-Know (RTK) data; and more. US$49 through Oct. 1, US$59 after Oct. 1. Contact NEHA, RTK Department, 720 S. Colorado Blvd., Suite 970-S, Denver, CO 80246-1925; phone (303) 756-9090; fax (303) 691-9490; website http://www.neha.org *Health Effects of Contemporary-Use Pesticides: The Wildlife/Human Connection, 1999* Theo Colborn et al., eds. Special issue of Toxicology and Industrial Health. Presents results of September 1996 Wingspread Work Session on Health Effects of Contemporary-Use Pesticides. Includes 20 original papers by Wingspread participants. Topics include endocrine disruption in mice and rats, immunotoxicity of pesticides, children's exposure to xenoestrogens and U.S. herbicide use. Also provides text of consensus statement by 23 scientists on pesticide-related health concerns, research needs and responsibilities of industry and scientific community. 275 pp. US$70 plus shipping/handling. Contact Toxicology and Industrial Health, Stockton Press, 345 Park Ave. South, NY, NY 10010-1707; phone (212) 726- 9333; fax (212) 696-0052; website http://www.stockton-press.co.uk *Protecting Public Health and the Environment: Implementing the Precautionary Principle, 1999* Carolyn Raffensperger and Joel Tickner, eds. Presents results of work initiated at 1998 Wingspread Conference on Implementing the Precautionary Principle. Describes history, content and philosophical foundations of principle of precautionary action, with applications ranging from agriculture to manufacturing. Sections cover law and theory; integrating precaution into policy; and precautionary principle in action. Includes case studies of manganese in gasoline, tetraethyl lead, endocrine disrupters and more. 385 pp. US$30. Contact Island Press, 76381 Commercial Street, P.O. Box 7, Covelo, CA 95428; phone (707) 983-6432; fax (707) 983- 6414; email ipwest@igc.apc.org; website http:www.islandpress.org *The Precautionary Principle in Action: A Handbook, 1999* Joel Tickner et al. Presents precautionary principle as a tool for environmentalists. Covers history of the precautionary principle, components and methods of precaution, step-by-step precautionary "process flow," application to toxicity testing for industrial chemicals, section on "answering the critics" and more. Appendix includes 1998 Wingspread Statement on the Precautionary Principle. 32 pp. Activists US$5, corporations US$20; send 8.5 self-addressed envelope with US$1.40 postage for orders within United States. Contact Science and Environmental Health Network, Rt. 1, Box 73, Windsor, ND 58424; phone/fax (701) 763-6286; email craffensperger@compuserve.com *The Monitoring Network for Health and Environment* Volunteer- staffed network gathering information on environmental health problems. Provides standardized forms for reporting environmental health problems and records problems in database. Aims to improve knowledge of environment-related illness and help identify emerging patterns. Working to expand network internationally. Contact Miep Verheuvel, Piccolo 38, 3068 HR Rotterdam, Netherlands; phone (45) 571-0420; fax (45) 571-1104; email gezomil@worldonline.org We encourage those interested in having resources listed in the PANUPS Resource Pointer to send review copies of publications, videos or other resources to our office. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 10 23:44:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09118 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15255 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:02:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wintermute.essex1.com (wintermute.essex1.com [206.31.1.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15251 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:02:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lorin ([206.31.15.150]) by wintermute.essex1.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54437U8000L800S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:06:27 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01befc01$e49e50a0$960f1fce@lorin> From: "Lorin Unterberger" To: "sanet" Subject: Re: a little of everthing Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:00:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2673 hi folks.. sorry if its imprudent. but since you were talking about tobacco. does anyone know when to harvest it for best quality. and second when is the best time to harvest leeks and will they bolt. third can alfalfa be grown with perennial grasses as an attempt to rest and break up plow pan. and fourth can alfalfa be grown with out being cut and smother canada thistle. thanks the other lorin To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 11 08:11:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12764 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:11:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20488 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:44:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20434 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bermuda-asy-13.rutgers.edu (bermuda-asy-13.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.141]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA13554; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:42:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: bermuda-asy-13.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.141] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <37DA66DF.5A3F@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:27:43 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jere Hitchcock CC: sanet Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy References: <001701befbf6$0fde3520$3a9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2674 > Your response: Tobacco is not working its dastardly deeds while growing in > the field! > > Reply: If it wasn't growing then we would have a such a high rate of > cancer. (Quoted by some to be 1 in 2 ). Brother, that is dastardly by > definition. Tobacco doesn't cause cancer by sitting in the field soaking up sunlight, while certain GE crops are already shown to be causing ecological damage doing just that. But as for second-hand smoke and all the rest, we have no argument; there is nobody on the planet who hates being in the same atmosphere as a lit cigarette as much as I. And there isn't a workplace I've seen in 8-10 years where anybody lights up. It has been a wonderful transition, as I remember well the days of being trapped in airports, and airplanes, shopping malls, restaurants, and my college cafeteria, as well as being a small child in a family where all the adults smoked and getting together on holidays was an exercise in misery for us kids. Now all the smokers are huddled in the front doors of their work buildings outdoors, so to enter a public building you have to run a smoke gauntlet. I hold my breath and hope I don't get fumed so bad that I have to undress on the deck to keep the odor from my home. I can avoid the company of smokers, and restaurants and bars where smoking is still allowed. I try to let the propriator know why I shun their place. Yes we do have no-smoking BARS! I never thought I'd see the day for that, but it's here. Places of business advertise being smoke-free as a selling point. The beautiful thing about this is, we don't have to EITHER oppose being assaulted by second hand smoke or being trespassed upon by other chemicals or opposing being the guinea pigs, along with the whole biosphere, of someone else's genetic contaminant. We can do both! > As a post script: I contacted the Secretary of Agriculture in the State of > Georgia and specifically asked if we could require farmers to list the > ingredients fed to animals for human consumption--specifically hormones, > steroids, antibiotics and animal by-products. His response was that it was > an impractical and impossible thing to do. Well of course this is what is behind the popularity of organic foods. It is easier (in theory) to let the customer who wants none of the above to have a choice than enact regulation on anyone not willingly participating. It was a surprise to many that the "nozzlehead" industry exposed their real face by trying and continuing to try to make sure that nobody can advertise that none of the above are used. It made them look real bad and I believe will ultimately blow up in their faces because it really made people mad. It seems that the public thinks it is allowed to make personal choices based not only on "science" but on all kinds of grounds outside the extraordinarily limited realm of risk assessment. And I wouldn't want to be the politico who tells the public otherwise. LM To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 11 09:31:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13326 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA07075 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:53:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07061 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:55:00 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.135] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A08C261402B2; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:52:28 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:49:23 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: a little of everything Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2675 On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:00:10 -0500, Lorin Unterberger wrote: >best time to harvest leeks and will they bolt. Generally as late in the season as possible. Leeks like cool weather and lots of water. Some will bolt through the summer, but even with a couple of weeks of 100 F weather here in Kansas we only lost about 5% to bolting. Didn't really lose 'em --- ate 'em early! >third can alfalfa be grown with perennial grasses as an attempt to rest and break up plow pan. Yes. However the first year, I'd grow yellow sweet clover (a biennial) as its roots are thicker and more aggressive at penetrating a pan. For the longer term, alfalfa will also do just fine, but the seed is more expensive. >can alfalfa be grown with out being cut and smother canada thistle. No. The best non-chemical ways to get rid of Canada thistle (called sow thistle in Canada) all involve starving the root system --- which can be 5 or 10 feet deep! the plant is weakest at the early bud stage. Cut it at that point, after which, do not let green growth remain above ground for more than a week or so. After several weeks of major hassling the thistles, plant winter rye. The next year, evaluate thistle pressure in the rye, going after any particularly heavy patches. A tractor-mounted rotary tiller works great for spot tillage. Harvest the rye and go back to hassling the thistles as before. Once again, plant winter rye, this time as a cover crop, and resume your rotation the following spring. You'll still have a few stragglers, which should be controlled aggressively with a hoe, machete, or whatever. I prefer a cotton-choppin' hoe for this because it's heavy and you can put a nasty edge on it in the shop. In any case --- as an absolute minimum --- nobody gets to set seed. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 11 10:28:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13882 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19747 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:00:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19696 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp128.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.128]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E7BC461764; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005201befc5d$c6ee0bc0$809144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Jere Hitchcock" , Cc: "sanet" References: <001701befbf6$0fde3520$3a9866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:58:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2676 check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html .and yet they force organic growers to do just that .. the impractical and the impossible yeah thats us . > > As a post script: I contacted the Secretary of Agriculture in the State of > Georgia and specifically asked if we could require farmers to list the > ingredients fed to animals for human consumption--specifically hormones, > steroids, antibiotics and animal by-products. His response was that it was > an impractical and impossible thing to do. If you are interested in the > exact verbiage I will be glad to fax a copy of the letter to you attention. > > Jere B. Hitchcock > Danielsville, Georgia > 706.789.2915 > www.jcranch.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 11 13:59:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16078 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05697 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:30:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f49.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.49]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA05655 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 73331 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 1999 17:28:37 -0000 Message-ID: <19990911172837.73330.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 192.124.42.32 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:28:37 PDT X-Originating-IP: [192.124.42.32] From: "David Fazzino" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: DDT Use in Third World Countries Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:28:37 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2677 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:15:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Subject: Re: FSNET: Poison risk is greater from organic foods, says scientist On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Sal wrote: > its about time the truth came out. I knew u could not trust these folks. Between Batman & Robin's (G.G. Liddy and Dennis Avery) collective hot air accelerating global warming the resulting early ice age will solve all those problemms, Sal. > bring back DDT Believe it or not "they" are trying to do just that, in 3rd world countries with malaria-carrying mosquitos. They say DDT works better than anything else. Lawrence, Who is the 'they' that you are referring to? From my understanding of the regulations surrounding DDT, it is currently legal to use it in the United States in order to control malaria carrying mosquitos so perhaps this is not merely a "third world" issue. While the effects of DDT are well documented some of the alternatives such as deltamethrin and propoxur have their own negative effects on humans and environment. These two, along with DDT, were being considered for use in a recent vector control programme in Madagascar. In the end it was decided by both the United Nations and World Bank not to use DDT for vector control. For those interested in learning more about this issue I would recommend "Resolving the DDT Dilemma", an excellent publication by the World Wildlife Federation. This contains information on alternatives to DDT and case studies of DDT control programmes in developing countries. Another interesting study by the International Development Research Centre @www.irdc.ca/instittution/emalaria.html has found that coconuts can combat malaria. I would hope that this will make it clear that there is much work being done on the international level to control malaria without the use of the DDT and also that we all maintain efforts to provide each other with concise information rather than broad statements that leave room for misinterpretation. David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 11 17:53:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19537 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12623 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12617 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19273; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24591; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:29:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:29:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: David Fazzino cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: DDT Use in Third World Countries In-Reply-To: <19990911172837.73330.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2678 On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, David Fazzino wrote: > Believe it or not "they" are trying to do just that, in 3rd world > countries with malaria-carrying mosquitos. They say DDT works better > than anything else. > > Lawrence, > > Who is the 'they' that you are referring to? From my understanding of I heard it on the radio, san't remember whether it was NPR or the BBC; you could check their websites to see which has the reportage. > I would hope that this will make it clear that there is much work being done > on the international level to control malaria without the use of the DDT and > also that we all maintain efforts to provide each other with concise > information rather than broad statements that leave room for > misinterpretation. The organization that released the DDT news to the media should know about this. Maybe you could contact them. I am fairly sure it was NPR or BBC; you could email both to find out. I heard it within the past 2 weeks. LL To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 11 17:54:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19547 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04410 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04401 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19184 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:19:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id RAA24433 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:19:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:19:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: INFO NEEDED (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2679 Maybe this will be of interest to some: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:12:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Tony Seamon To: london@sunSITE.unc.edu Cc: sdjstaff@aol.com Subject: INFO NEEDED A N.C. group is trying to help the Russian JOHN Q Citizen to help himself at small town farming. We have an age group that has played instead of worked. I wanted to know if your organization has ever helped in anything like this before and or if would be interested in looking futher into this. We will be having Project Leader and Mgr. leaving within the next 2 weeks to go back to Russia. Respectfully Yours Tony Seamon Morehead City, N.C. Tony and Judy Seamon Where Working Together Works To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 12 01:53:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23468 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA18273 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:30:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA18128 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from usrns19.dialup.hawaii.edu ([128.171.66.19]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <374345(1)>; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:29:34 -1000 Message-ID: <37DC37FD.51C886C5@hawaii.edu> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:32:13 -1000 From: Russell Yost Organization: University of Hawaii at Manoa X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1277 References: <199909071549.LAA00348@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2680 Hi, Chick, I've been away as planned. I'll be in for the duration of this and next week -- Sept. 13 to 30 and then away again. Can we have a call next Wednesday? thanks, "SC&A, Inc." wrote: > > Russell, > > There are still no promising results. I will email you the spread sheets as > soon as I can get the results entered. I would like for us to talk on > Thursday (9-9) if possible. Please let me know if we (Bill and I) can call > you at your office on Thursday. > > Chick > > At 08:19 AM 8/31/99 -1000, you wrote: > >Hi, Chick, > > Unfortunately, I won't be able to be available for our weekly phone > >call for Sept. 1 and 8. I will be traveling. I would be able to > >respond to email, however. Is there anything we should discuss today > >(Tuesday)? I hope you have found some interesting behavior with the > >samples. I hope we can continue and complete the washing experiments. > >That is some useful information, although it probably will not be fully > >utilized for the restoration of Bikini as it now appears. Nevertheless, > >plans and objectives can change and knowledge of Cs behavior in such > >soils remains a missing link. > > > >Best regards, > > > >-- > >Russell Yost > >University of Hawai`i at Manoa > >1910 East West Road > >Honolulu, Hawai`i > > > >Phone: 808-956-7066 > >Fax: 808-956-6539 > >Email: rsyost@hawaii.edu > >Web: http://agrss.sherman.hawaii.edu/staff/yost.htm > > > > > > > > > Charles R. Phillips -- Russell Yost University of Hawai`i at Manoa 1910 East West Road Honolulu, Hawai`i Phone: 808-956-7066 Fax: 808-956-6539 Email: rsyost@hawaii.edu Web: http://agrss.sherman.hawaii.edu/staff/yost.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 12 08:22:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28953 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05255 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:00:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05178 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bermuda-asy-13.rutgers.edu (bermuda-asy-13.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.141]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA15188; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:58:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: bermuda-asy-13.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.141] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <37DBBC30.206F@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:44:00 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Kotcon CC: sanet Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy References: <1.5.4.32.19990910124211.00f5f1b8@wvu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2681 > Nevertheless, I believe the real insight is the distinction between > those who assess risks in a technical sense, versus those whose decisions > are reached based on moral/ethical grounds. This gap cannot be bridged by > more research alone, because one side presents more and more scientific > research they believe is convincing, while the other side presents a moral > argument that they believe is convincing, and neither side addresses the > other's concerns. Well said and worth repeating. And the "scientific" side has earned the distrust of the other by its bullying, to the detriment of science in the mind of the public, I believe, in the following way. The sales force for the scientific side continues to insist on how objective its take, how external, how APOLITICAL. Apparently it is blind to the fact that the position of wanting to use risk assessment rather than make a coherent argument on other grounds, and the idea that those who are more convinced by ethical arguments are nevertheless to be forced to accept risk assessment methodology applied to them, is of itself a highly political and non-scientific position. This point is not, of course, lost upon anyone else. LM To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 12 13:05:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03675 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05884 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:38:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05791 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:38:39 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:37:32 -0500 X-ROUTED: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:37:32 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.71] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0b17143c ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:37:20 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990912112754.0097d100@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:27:54 -0500 To: Subject: Clearinghouse Proposal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2682 Given the halftruth nature of many press releases that have graced our list and " the long Shelf-life " of these halftruths as one list member put it, I was wondering if any site was following these bits of agricultural doublespeak and offering critical reasoned responses? Misha recently mentioned this type of site for economic analysis at : http://www.fair.org/err/index.html but I am wondering if there is an equivalent site that keeps track of the Fib of the Day from the "life science" industry? Several people have offered very elegant and reasoned rebuttals to some of these pieces of spin. What is needed is a place to collect and edit this information into a format that is useful to the person who suspects a half truth but does not have the information to expose the spinmeister that some list members have. Does anybody know of such a site? Is any existing site or organization interesting in adding such a feature? Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 12 15:53:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08628 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15736 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:13:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15676 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17784 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:04:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: Sanet , "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" Subject: RE: Farmland Preservation Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:04:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2683 while it may put the brakes on development, it does not stop development, and it redistributes the benefits of develop . . . if the smallest parcel of farmland that can be partitioned off is 40 acres, then only developers with sufficient financial backing will be able to get into the game . . . a smaller number of well-bankrolled developers will be in a stronger bargaining position vis-a-vis the farmland owners who wish to sell their land, and thus will be able to drive down the price paid to farmland owners . . . once these developers own the land, they will want to maximize the profit they obtain from their investment, so they are more likely to build higher density subdivisions . . . they are less likely to retain five or ten acre parcels with a single family residence, and thus they are less likely to retain rural open space cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Paul Schmitmeyer[SMTP:ps@erinet.com] > Sent: Friday 10 September 1999 6:58 AM > To: Sanet > Subject: Farmland Preservation > > Hi all, > In our area there is a county that recently voted for legislation that > the smallest parcel of land that can be sold off a farm is 40 acres. This > put the brakes on any developement. Anyone that wants to build has to > purchase a 40 acre plot reducing the number of people finacially able to > do that. Furthermore, most people would probably opt to rent out the > remaining acreage. > Paul > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 12 19:35:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11373 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10268 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:53:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA09998 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from usrns56.dialup.hawaii.edu ([128.171.66.56]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373805(3)>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:51:41 -1000 Message-ID: <37DD807D.575BC0D1@hawaii.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:53:49 -1000 From: Russell Yost Organization: University of Hawaii at Manoa X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1290 References: <199909122210.SAA12206@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2684 My apologies for including some personal messages to the list. I hope it doesn't happen again. Sorry. sanet-mg-digest wrote: > > sanet-mg-digest Sunday, September 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1290 > > In this issue: > > Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1277 > Re: Fighting the wrong enemy > Clearinghouse Proposal > RE: Farmland Preservation > > See the end of the digest for information about sanet-mg-digest. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:32:13 -1000 > From: Russell Yost > Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1277 > > Hi, Chick, > I've been away as planned. I'll be in for the duration of this and > next week -- Sept. 13 to 30 and then away again. > Can we have a call next Wednesday? > thanks, > > "SC&A, Inc." wrote: > > > > Russell, > > > > There are still no promising results. I will email you the spread sheets as > > soon as I can get the results entered. I would like for us to talk on > > Thursday (9-9) if possible. Please let me know if we (Bill and I) can call > > you at your office on Thursday. > > > > Chick > > > > At 08:19 AM 8/31/99 -1000, you wrote: > > >Hi, Chick, > > > Unfortunately, I won't be able to be available for our weekly phone > > >call for Sept. 1 and 8. I will be traveling. I would be able to > > >respond to email, however. Is there anything we should discuss today > > >(Tuesday)? I hope you have found some interesting behavior with the > > >samples. I hope we can continue and complete the washing experiments. > > >That is some useful information, although it probably will not be fully > > >utilized for the restoration of Bikini as it now appears. Nevertheless, > > >plans and objectives can change and knowledge of Cs behavior in such > > >soils remains a missing link. > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >-- > > >Russell Yost > > >University of Hawai`i at Manoa > > >1910 East West Road > > >Honolulu, Hawai`i > > > > > >Phone: 808-956-7066 > > >Fax: 808-956-6539 > > >Email: rsyost@hawaii.edu > > >Web: http://agrss.sherman.hawaii.edu/staff/yost.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Charles R. Phillips > > - -- > Russell Yost > University of Hawai`i at Manoa > 1910 East West Road > Honolulu, Hawai`i > > Phone: 808-956-7066 > Fax: 808-956-6539 > Email: rsyost@hawaii.edu > Web: http://agrss.sherman.hawaii.edu/staff/yost.htm > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:44:00 -0700 > From: Loren Muldowney > Subject: Re: Fighting the wrong enemy > > > Nevertheless, I believe the real insight is the distinction between > > those who assess risks in a technical sense, versus those whose decisions > > are reached based on moral/ethical grounds. This gap cannot be bridged by > > more research alone, because one side presents more and more scientific > > research they believe is convincing, while the other side presents a moral > > argument that they believe is convincing, and neither side addresses the > > other's concerns. > > Well said and worth repeating. And the "scientific" side has earned the > distrust of the other by its bullying, to the detriment of science in > the mind of the public, I believe, in the following way. > > The sales force for the scientific side continues to insist on how > objective its take, how external, how APOLITICAL. Apparently it is > blind to the fact that the position of wanting to use risk assessment > rather than make a coherent argument on other grounds, and the idea that > those who are more convinced by ethical arguments are nevertheless to be > forced to accept risk assessment methodology applied to them, is of > itself a highly political and non-scientific position. This point is > not, of course, lost upon anyone else. > > LM > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:27:54 -0500 > From: mmiller@pcsia.com > Subject: Clearinghouse Proposal > > Given the halftruth nature of many press releases that have graced our list > and " the long Shelf-life " of these halftruths as one list member put it, > I was wondering if any site was following these bits of agricultural > doublespeak and offering critical reasoned responses? Misha recently > mentioned this type of site for economic analysis at : > > http://www.fair.org/err/index.html > > but I am wondering if there is an equivalent site that keeps track of the > Fib of the Day from the "life science" industry? > > Several people have offered very elegant and reasoned rebuttals to some of > these pieces of spin. What is needed is a place to collect and edit this > information into a format that is useful to the person who suspects a half > truth but does not have the information to expose the spinmeister that some > list members have. > > Does anybody know of such a site? Is any existing site or organization > interesting in adding such a feature? > > Mike Miller > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:04:44 -0400 > From: "Harris, Craig" > Subject: RE: Farmland Preservation > > while it may put the brakes on development, it does not stop development, > and it redistributes the benefits of develop . . . if the smallest parcel of > farmland that can be partitioned off is 40 acres, then only developers with > sufficient financial backing will be able to get into the game . . . a > smaller number of well-bankrolled developers will be in a stronger > bargaining position vis-a-vis the farmland owners who wish to sell their > land, and thus will be able to drive down the price paid to farmland owners > . . . once these developers own the land, they will want to maximize the > profit they obtain from their investment, so they are more likely to build > higher density subdivisions . . . they are less likely to retain five or ten > acre parcels with a single family residence, and thus they are less likely > to retain rural open space > cheers, > craig > > craig k harris > department of sociology > michigan state university > 429b berkey hall > east lansing michigan 48824-1111 > tel: 517-355-5048 > fax: 517-432-2856 > > > ---------- > > From: Paul Schmitmeyer[SMTP:ps@erinet.com] > > Sent: Friday 10 September 1999 6:58 AM > > To: Sanet > > Subject: Farmland Preservation > > > > Hi all, > > In our area there is a county that recently voted for legislation that > > the smallest parcel of land that can be sold off a farm is 40 acres. This > > put the brakes on any developement. Anyone that wants to build has to > > purchase a 40 acre plot reducing the number of people finacially able to > > do that. Furthermore, most people would probably opt to rent out the > > remaining acreage. > > Paul > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1290 > ******************************* > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". -- Russell Yost University of Hawai`i at Manoa 1910 East West Road Honolulu, Hawai`i Phone: 808-956-7066 Fax: 808-956-6539 Email: rsyost@hawaii.edu Web: http://agrss.sherman.hawaii.edu/staff/yost.htm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 12 20:35:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11808 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28752 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:06:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28744 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp34.epix.net [209.74.60.34]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999072601/PL) with ESMTP id UAA12892; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DC41A1.D69F6BE7@epix.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:13:21 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lorin Unterberger CC: sanet Subject: Re: a little of everthing References: <000a01befc01$e49e50a0$960f1fce@lorin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2685 Lorin Unterberger wrote: > hi folks.. > > can alfalfa be grown with out being cut and smother canada thistle. I've found alfalfa to be a great way to get rid of canada thistle, but it needs to be cut regularly. 3 years usually takes care of it. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 12 23:43:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13892 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21593 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:43:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21576 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21887 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ELCWL5YZ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:40:08 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:17:22 -0700 Subject: Johnson grass seeds Message-ID: <19990912.172446.3438.2.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,8,15,19-21 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2686 Dear SANETers: We have the misfortune of having Johnson grass naturalized along roadsides in our area. I succeeded in killing out a small patch in my chicken yard by persistent digging and shading with black plastic. Along the road, we have several larger patches. I cut the flowers and seed heads off the patches upwind from our garden area before I cut the stalks near the ground to make sure they don't re-bloom again this summer. Now I have a pillow case of flowers and seeds and there is plenty more available. I don't want to chance putting this stuff in my compost but hate to send biodegradeable material to the landfill. I assume it would make good chicken feed IF I can make sure any stray seeds won't sprout. I plan to let it dry and then put it into the solar oven on a nice sunny day to bake it. (Or maybe even put it into our propane oven sometime when I'm making biscuits or cookies.) Does anyone out there know how high a temperature for how long would make sure NONE of it is left viable? If this turns out to be reasonably easy to accomplish, I might make it a point to harvest the rest of the seeds on our property for "free" chicken feed rather than take up garden space growing corn and sorghum. Hope someone can help. Regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 00:28:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14343 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18788 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:24:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18740 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp117.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.117]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 448A261748 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <019e01befd86$73036580$759144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: Subject: Fw: GE problems Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:22:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2687 check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob To: Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 6:00 AM Subject: GE problems > Seems it's getting harder to market GE foods... > > Rob > becida@the-bridge.net > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-09/12/184l-091299-idx.html > > >>As the crucial fall harvest season approaches, many U.S. farmers and > other agricultural workers are in a near panic because of escalating > uncertainty over genetically engineered crops. > > Farmers planted millions of acres of the high-tech crops this year. But > foreign buyers are rejecting them in droves, despite aggressive U.S. > marketing efforts and assurances of their safety.<< > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 00:48:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14506 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18196 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:23:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18146 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:23:42 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:22:38 -0500 X-ROUTED: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:22:38 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.66] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 14521c3c ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:22:30 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990912201249.007c1470@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:12:49 -0500 To: Subject: E. coli link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2688 Here is what the CDC says about E. coli contamination. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/foodborn/e_coli.htm Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 00:48:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14514 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28045 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:25:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28036 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19358 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:44:37 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: "Global warming" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2689 Howdy, all-- Just a quick reminder that when folks like Dennis Avery use the term "global warming" they're generally trying to convince people not to think about global climate change. Planetary warming has been observed and measured. But the issue is not as simple as Avery and others present it. It's not a matter of a linear increase in the amount of heat captured by the CO2 in the atmosphere and held. We live in an ecosystem, not a log-linear world. Warming is only one observed phenomenon. There are other observable changes in climate patterns, including greater diversity in weather patterns in a given season, increases in "hundred year events" (severe or extreme weather, wind, and wave patterns), and temperature gradients in the North Atlantic Ocean. As for changing temperature gradients--the difference between the deep-sea water temperature and the surface water temperature is an engine that causes mixing of seawater, which carries nutrients (like O2, N, S, C) between surface and deeps, feeding the ecosystems there, which basically support life on the planet. Does anyone need to be reminded that our planet's oxygen comes from the work of these sea microorganisms? NOAA oceanographers have been documenting a dramatic slowing in the mixing/churning activity in this system. I can post some Web resources on global climate change tomorrow or next week, if anyone's interested (Friday afternoon link search). Also, one more thing. About Dennis's view of 950-1300 as the Good Old Warm Days. It was in the 1300s that plague outbreaks killed 1/3 of the population of Europe--not to mention tens of millions more in China and elsewhere. Most folks tend to think about that in a very simple model. For example, people got the plague because rats with plague-infected fleas arrived on ships. Yep, that was the vector. But that doesn't explain the outbreak. Why were so many people so susceptible? After all, 2/3 of the population survived, and many were exposed to the /Yersinia pestis/ microbe, and fought it off. Is that only explicable by their genetic makeup? Or might it be that there was more to it than that--and if so, what? But let's look at it from the microbe's perspective. Plagues follow warming. Existing microbes live--and are controlled--within VERY SPECIFIC temperature ranges. Many global epidemiologists are deeply concerned that even a 1-degree rise in mean planetary temperature could give advantage to the spread of highly virulent forms of malaria, cholera, and even some of the hemorrhagic viruses (like Ebola, Crimean-Congo, Marburg). Not only that, increasing heat means increasing stress on human hosts. So the advantage to the microbes are at least twofold--more territory for them, and more hosts whose bodies are overwhelmed and can't fight them off. Microbes are everywhere--each of us carries, for example, pneumonia viruses, herpesviruses, viruses not yet named or recognized, viruses-in-mutation. But we've got this fabulous, anciently evolved, cellular communications system--the immune-neurological-endocrine system--which acts in dialogue with these other life forms. When our INE system is functioning well--when the stress on it isn't debilitating it as a whole or any part of it--our bodies can, by and large, react in ways that keep it functioning; humans are extraordinarily adaptive creatures. And part of what supports our INE system is ecological balance. Well, duh--we're part of the ecology, and when environmental systems are at balance, so we're likely to be. Unfortunately, it's easier for people to think in binary terms: bad = microbes (quick! get the Lysol!), good = no sneezing or snuffles EVER; bad = rain, good = unending sunny days; bad = soil ("dirt"), good = sparkling clean fabricated surfaces.... Most people I've ever met think that bad = cold, good = warm (well, when it's COLD out, you can't pour unidentified petrochemicals over charcoal briquets, incinerate them, and start producing polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in which to steep your meat!). Avery sounds like one of them--a binary thinker to the core, he assumes that warmer is better. And look! He's got historical "proof"! But my guess is that, if cholera, malaria, and hemorrhagic virus outbreaks became commonplace in Swoope, Virginia.... He'd blame it on the "liberal press." :^) peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The man does not know enough to keep the beans out of chili. --Molly Ivins To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 00:48:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14518 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28044 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:25:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28034 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19348 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:47:53 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Shigellosis and diapers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2690 Howdy, all-- I found this story to be a good reminder of some simple sanitation principles--and disease vectors--often forgotten. News media have seized on farmers and farming and organic ag as "causes" of /E. coli/ infections. And often taken information out of context, or provided poor context. This story interested me for the reporter's apparent ability to think beyond a panicky, sensationalist approach to the topic. And also a willingness to remind people of a common fecal-matter disease vector. But of course it's easiest to blame farmers for fecal-matter contamination. There are so few of them. The last time I suggested to someone that her child's bout with watery diarrhea could have come from contact with human-feces-transmitted microbes at day care, and that she might check on sanitation precautions there, she assured me that couldn't be so, that it was probably something in the food chain. When I reminded her that her child ate regular meals at a place where diapers were routinely changed, and served by the people who changed those diapers, she opined that that seemed like "a stretch." When I suggested that human feces, including that of children and infants, carry many microbes, she indicated that I obviously was not a nice person, and hated children, to think that little babies would be spreading disease. As Emo Phillips says, some mornings it's just not worth chewing thru the straps. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SHIGELLOSIS - USA (WISCONSIN) ***************************** Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:45:48 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8 Sep 1999 [edited] The Milwaukee Health Department is warning physicians about an increase of diarrheal illness caused by _Shigella_ bacteria, and is urging the public to practice good hand-washing to prevent its spread. So far this year, about 200 cases have been confirmed in Milwaukee County; the normal rate is zero to 10 per month, Health Commissioner Seth Foldy said. It is not an epidemic and is not transmitted through treated city water, as the _Cryptosporidium_ epidemic was six years ago, he emphasized. "It primarily is a person-to-person, fecal-oral spread. It is not in the water," Foldy said. "Diapers is where it's at," and two-thirds of cases this year have occurred among children in diapers or people who handle them, including clusters of cases at institutional and home-based day care centers, Foldy said. "The single most important disease control strategy for this illness is hand-washing. "People need to know that hand-washing will benefit them not only with (preventing) Shigella but also with their chances of getting many other illnesses." An alert to community physicians to watch and test for _Shigella_ among patients with severe diarrhea is being mailed with this month's Milwaukee County Medical Society newsletter, Foldy said. Symptoms [of shigellosis] include watery diarrhea often accompanied by fever, nausea, vomiting and cramps. Stool often contains blood, mucus and pus, according to "Control of Communicable Disease in Man," a widely used reference book on infectious disease published by the American Public Health Association. Illness often is worse in children than adults. It lasts an average of four to seven days and usually resolves on its own. The typical incubation period is one to three days but can be up to a week. Infection spreads to others in a household 40% of the time - hence, Foldy's warnings about hand-washing and cleaning under fingernails, which is the primary way to prevent further transmission. It takes very little bacteria to produce infection, and someone infected with _Shigella_ can remain contagious for a month after symptoms abate. Milwaukee's increase appears to have started in spring 1998, Foldy said. Once health officials verified the trend and determined it was a sustained high level of cases rather than an isolated outbreak, they started interviewing and testing each reported case, along with household and occupational contacts. About 84% of cases this year were among city residents and 16% were in Milwaukee County suburbs. About 30% involve children under age 6. The biggest cluster was 21 cases at a day care center. The species involved in the Milwaukee area cases is _Shigella sonnei_, which produces less severe illness [than _S. dysenteriae_] and rarely causes death. It's also possible to be infected and not have symptoms. "This particular bug is not a killer, nor does it lead to chronic disease like certain _E. coli_, _Salmonella_ and cryptosporidia," Foldy said. But if someone gets [shigellosis], it also means they could get one of those other [infections] through the same pathway - contact with infected stool, he said. And those other illnesses can be fatal or have serious consequences such as kidney failure. Physicians are required to report cases of _Shigella_ infection to public health officials. Foldy thinks some of the increase is due to a reporting system instituted about two years ago that makes it easier for suburban Milwaukee County health departments to notify the Milwaukee Health Department. But that doesn't account for all or even most of the increase, and Foldy said federal health experts believe that the true number of cases in a community is about 20 times the number of confirmed cases reported to health authorities. [Byline: Marilynn Marchione] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm a problem solver. --Xena, warrior princess To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 00:49:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14522 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28083 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:25:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28050 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19425; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:24:25 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: NYC spraying malathion/St. Louis encephalitis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2691 Howdy, all-- Thought some of you might be interested in this: http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/encephalitis990911.html This has been an ongoing discussion on ProMED in recent weeks. This is an issue that concerns me deeply. Research and fieldwork in infectious diseases went through terrible cuts in the 80s, and now, as then, epidemiologists have had concerns that lack of understanding of and action on proactive infectious disease control can lead things to get out of hand in cities. As with agribusiness, it's easier ("cheaper") to just spray. My concern is that we'll be seeing more and more of this sort of thing. I.e., as farmers are under greater pressure to stop using pesticides, urban health organizations will increasingly justify uses such as the above in "emergency" situations. I do not question that an outbreak of something like St. Louis encephalitis is indeed an emergency situation. However, I would like to see urban health officials and policymakers held to a similar standard as farmers. Malathion spraying in New York City is going to run off into the water, just like malathion spraying in agricultural areas. It's going to affect pollinators and amphibians. It's going to harm those exposed to it. It's going to drift. Etc. Perhaps someday there can be a sustainable urban environment movement? Where issues like scouting for pests, building immune system health, and understanding the ecology of disease will be emphasized. And where farmers aren't cast as villains, but rather everyone learns to rethink ecological balance.. You'll note that the above story perpetuates the myth that people who react to pesticides must be "sensitive." As opposed to, say, awake and aware. Or alive. Here's the PESTIS fact sheet on malathion, by NCAP: gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:2998/0PESTIS/r.937188074.16337.1 Here's NCAP's discussion of malathion's effects on nontarget organisms: gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:2998/0PESTIS/r.937188074.16337.2 Here's PANNA's March 1998 report on USDA's withdrawal of a plan to spray malathion by air in an agricultural situation: gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:2998/0PESTIS/r.937188074.16337.4 Here's the New Jersey Dept. of Health's hazardous substance sheet on malathion: http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/1150.pdf peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wash your hands after using any pesticide product. --Dow Elanco To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 01:31:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14857 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15762 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:36:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from www14.clever.net (www14.clever.net [209.196.14.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15690 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chitch (r-152.53.alltel.net [166.102.152.53]) by www14.clever.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA15043; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003f01befd98$2024ede0$359866a6@chitch.alltel.net> Reply-To: "Jere Hitchcock" From: "Jere Hitchcock" To: Cc: "Tom Allen" Subject: Wrong enemy # 2 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:28:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFD76.9525C000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2692 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFD76.9525C000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom Allen, In response to your e-mail to me. Wrong enemy #1: We both have something in common--the early death of our = fathers from cigarette smoking and the ill effects there of. The other = thing we have in common is that we are both alive and have not succumbed = to the effects of GM foods. Is the tobacco or GM foods worse? Two = dead; two alive. Maybe by your account that is a "draw." But I still = see it differently. Wrong enemy #2: I have lobbied for the inclusion of data for the = consumer to read on the label of meat products. The proposed label = should list the all of the steroids, hormones, and growth additives in = feed product given to animals for human consumption. These efforts have = fallen on deaf ears so far to date. You will get the same response when = you ask for the GM labels. We have spent almost all of our savings to = raise the Ostrich which does not have any of the above (growth = additives) and we do not feed any animal by-products to the birds (mad = cow disease). The world is just too busy "counting their money" to give = a damn about these issues and the few of us with the energy and time and = money must make a decision as whether to continue onward or quit. I have in my lifetime seen the females of our species develop at 14-15 = years old when I was growing up, to now where the development is 9-10 = years. Folks, I do not know of a child who is 3 years out of first = grade who is ready for the mantle of womanhood. This has a direct = cause: eating meat (chicken, beef , and other meats) laced with = steroids, hormones, and growth stimulants . Where did the growth = hormones come from? The feed of course... Same story... Nobody gives = a damn, they are all to busy counting their money. And please do not give me the standard answer "My child is developing = early because she just has big bones." B.S. Although the people who = read these pages may not agree (and generally disagree) on the course of = proceeding, we are probably some of the few people on the face of the = earth who really give a big damn. We all care but just have different = opinions. God bless sanet people. Jere B. Hitchcock Danielsville, Georgia 706.789.2915 www.jcranch.com ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFD76.9525C000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Tom Allen, In response to your = e-mail to=20 me.
     
    Wrong enemy #1: We both have=20 something in common--the early death of our fathers from cigarette = smoking and=20 the ill effects there of.  The other thing we have in common is = that we are=20 both alive and have not succumbed to the effects of GM foods.  Is = the=20 tobacco or GM foods worse?  Two dead; two alive.  Maybe by = your=20 account that is a "draw."  But I still see it=20 differently.
     
    Wrong enemy #2:  I have=20 lobbied for the inclusion of data for the consumer to read on the label = of meat=20 products.  The proposed label should list the all of the steroids,=20 hormones, and growth additives in feed product given to animals for = human=20 consumption.  These efforts have fallen on deaf ears so far to = date. =20 You will get the same response when you ask for the GM labels.  We = have=20 spent almost all of our savings to raise the Ostrich which does not have = any of=20 the above (growth additives) and we do not feed any animal by-products = to the=20 birds (mad cow disease).  The world is just too busy "counting = their=20 money" to give a damn about these issues and the few of us with the = energy=20 and time and money must make a decision as whether to continue onward or = quit.
     
    I have in my lifetime seen the females of our = species develop=20 at 14-15 years old when I was growing up, to now where the development = is 9-10=20 years.  Folks, I do not know of a child who is 3 years out of first = grade=20 who is ready for the mantle of womanhood.  This has a direct = cause: =20 eating meat (chicken, beef , and other meats) laced with steroids, = hormones, and=20 growth stimulants .  Where did the growth hormones come from?  = The=20 feed of course...  Same story...  Nobody gives a damn, they = are all to=20 busy counting their money.
     
    And please do not give me the standard answer = "My child=20 is developing early because she just has big bones."  = B.S. =20 Although the people who read these pages may not agree (and generally = disagree)=20 on the course of proceeding, we are probably some of the few people on = the face=20 of the earth who really give a big damn.  We all care but just have = different opinions.  God bless sanet people.
     
    Jere B. Hitchcock
    Danielsville,=20 Georgia
    706.789.2915
    www.jcranch.com
    ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01BEFD76.9525C000-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 01:42:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14916 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA16836 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:26:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16767 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (dynamic53.pm07.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.181]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id VAA21827; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: , Subject: RE: Clearinghouse Proposal Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:28:20 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990912112754.0097d100@pcsia.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2693 Mike, I've been pondering for many months developing of a centralized media clearinghouse for the world of sustainable agriculture. "Fib of the Day" sounds like something that would work really well. Currently, I do not have the resources to develop the concept independently, but I would be very interested in working on such a project. - Michael Straus ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of mmiller@pcsia.com Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 9:28 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Clearinghouse Proposal Given the halftruth nature of many press releases that have graced our list and " the long Shelf-life " of these halftruths as one list member put it, I was wondering if any site was following these bits of agricultural doublespeak and offering critical reasoned responses? Misha recently mentioned this type of site for economic analysis at : http://www.fair.org/err/index.html but I am wondering if there is an equivalent site that keeps track of the Fib of the Day from the "life science" industry? Several people have offered very elegant and reasoned rebuttals to some of these pieces of spin. What is needed is a place to collect and edit this information into a format that is useful to the person who suspects a half truth but does not have the information to expose the spinmeister that some list members have. Does anybody know of such a site? Is any existing site or organization interesting in adding such a feature? Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 02:18:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA15240 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA28162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:37:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from nyct.net (bsd4.nyct.net [204.141.86.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28117 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (ppp66.nyct.net [207.198.184.66]) by nyct.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA05320 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:36:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sharon@nyct.net) Message-ID: <37DC8D41.74C8@nyct.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:36:01 -0400 From: Sharon Reply-To: sharon@nyct.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: NYC spraying malathion/St. Louis encephalitis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2694 Misha: Thank you for providing references re malathion. Just what I was looking for. I sat down tonight to do my malathion research, but thought I would check my email first and there you were. I am a resident of New York City and am mad as hell millions of us are subjected to such widespread spraying. And I have read and heard conflicting reports as to when and how (aerial vs truck) my neighborhood was being sprayed. NYC had to get the spray from Suffolk County because there was none on hand. Another case of the bureaucrats, due to budget constraints, sloughing off mosquito control over the last few years and then going for overkill. All summer long I have seen only one mosquito; we have been in drought most of the season. I can't argue against select spraying of wet areas where mosquitos breed but not miles of concrete and buildings. I hope the political cartoonists will be picturing the Mayor as the mosquito he is. Although he says the spraying is safe, read in one of the newspapers "even if you should be sprayed on", I don't see him and his aides volunteering. Sharon To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 05:21:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16445 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:21:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA14979 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:20:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14907 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24776; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:19:55 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02681; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:56:35 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 09:49:59 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 09:49:29 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: bluestem@webserf.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:49:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Mediaeval Agriculture & warming Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <1A658EF3866@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2695 >To link that warming, however, to improved agriculture in >Europe (a la Avery...) is a stretch. Cereal yields did not >appreciably decrease after 1300. Such data are scarce (and not >particularly reliable), but those I have (from England, France, >and Germany) show --- if anything --- a continued *increase* in >yields after the end of the MCO. according to my sources (most from italy - roman empire and it's influence on recordkeeping) there even were no real famines, as we think them to be today. hunger was a reality of the 3. to 6. century. later there were regularly floods, freeze and drought and hordes of robbers invading regions, but not the kind of hunger we know today in africa and asia and there weren't plant epidemies like in the 18th and 19th century. people were quite inventive: they collected herbs and roots, baked "phantasy breads", ate any kind of meat. and there was lot of "saltus" (as the romans called the uncultivated soil in contrary to "ager", the cultivated fields. then there were the "barbarians" (celtic and germanic tribes, my predecessors), who always had enough of wild animals for hunt. these were mostly pigs, but also horses and cattle. bread was unknown to them, also wine, they drank milk and met (kind of beer). and they ate lots of fat. hunger was unknown to them and there are sources, where roman clerics complained about the "barbarians, who do eat like cyclops unnatural amounts of foods". there were only single years of hunger like in 591 and 843. the 11th century was a century of hunger, mostly because of heavy rains. people ate people and at the marketplace of tournus marketenders sold large amounts flesh of dead people. but the most important invention of this time was probably the invention of an unknown genuis: hay. In the classical world of greece and rome and in all earlier times, there was no hay. civilization could exist only in warm climates where horses could stay alive through the winter by grazing. without grass in winter you could not have horses, and without horses you could not have urban civilization. up to the 13th century forests were turned into meadows, hay was reaped and stored, and civilization moved north over the alps. So hay gave birth to vienna and paris and london and berlin, and later to moscow. people began to cultivate more wood and production rose. but from just that time i found a source with a yield ratio of 1:3 !!! (montanari, m; campagne medievali. strutture proddutive, rapporti di lavoro, sistemi alimentari, 1984). translated to your nice example: that would make a 20t/ha seeding rate !! in the last decades of the 13th century and the beginning of the 14th food production declined sharphly. did this time fell into the climate change you mentioned ?? i don't know anything about climate in ancient times and every schoolboy who listened to his history teacher, might know better...;-)) in the 15th and 16th century there was more than enough food and people in the small german kingdoms and principalities had a recorded average consumation of about 100 kg meat/person !!!! (including children) take away the religious times of lents (about 150 days a year) and you come to 400-500 gr of meat a day. amazing, isn't it ? the french of these days ate 60-70 kg meat/year, the italians 30 kg. the large agricultural expansion phases were in the 16th and 18 century >Better land and better technology presumably increased yield >ratios --- and total harvest --- in the 11th century, but I haven't found the data to back up that statement. here i found exactly the contrary (mollat, m; les pauvres au moyen age. etude sociale; paris 1978) and the strangest thing i found: there was never such a thing as a irish "potato" famine. millions of people died, but that was NOT the result of the phytophthora alone. it was the occupying power of the brits, the land tenure system and taxation. for every shipload of (usually undigestible) food aid that reached irish docks, six or more shiploads of cereal crops left irish ports (source william fry et al. "historical and recent migrations of phytophtora infestans: chronology, pathways and implications, plant dieseases, july 1993, p. 653). as i read the sources it became clear to me, what a fool i (and evidently a lot of others) had been to believe, that the entire irish farmland was planted with potatoes and people depended entirely on one genus and would not have had the intelligence to switch to grain and other fruits in the following years. (as i wrote above, there WERE grains for seed, but they were shipped to britain. no wonder the english are still hated by the irish.. the blight certainly was a catastrophy, but not merely one like it is described today. sounds quite similar to today's famines in ethiopia. ethiopia was using some of its prime agricultural land at the height of the 1984 famine in the horn of africa to produce linseed cake, cottonseed cake and rapeseed meal for export to britain and other european nations as feed for livestock. that might have been intelligent, if for every calorie they sold they could have bought 2 from grain. but that was not the case. so to the gentec-people: please do not talk to me of feeding the starving!! Tewolde Berhan Gebre , ethiopia's representative at the negotiations to draw up a biosafety protocol as part of the convention on Biological Diversity said it quite right: "there are still hungry people in Ethiopia, but they are hungry because they have no money, no longer because there is no food to buy . . . We strongly resent the abuse of our poverty to sway the interests of the european public." shame on him: he simply forgot to mention the interests of our big brother, the americans.... short note on hunger there: The U.S. Conference of Mayors reports that requests for emergency food increased an average of 14% during the period 1997-1998. One out of five requests for food assistance went unmet. The AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PUBLIC HEALTH in 1998 reported that 10 million Americans -- including more than four million children -- do not have enough to eat; a majority are members of families with at least one member working. there are a lot of things to correct in europe like Egziabher said, but up to now we haven't sunk that deep to let our children starve.... klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 07:19:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16934 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA16635 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:53:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16528 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA26804; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:53:10 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04318; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:21:56 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 12:15:21 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 12:14:50 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: rverzola@phil.gn.apc.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:14:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: New Report Lauds Small Farms Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <1A8C5214407@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2696 >Small Farms More Productive than Large Farms but Threatened by >Trade Agreements >Maastricht, Netherlands -- Small farms are more productive than >large farms, yet their continued existence is threatened by >international trade agreements, according to a major study >released today at a United Nations conference here in >Maastricht.* new report, old facts. (nevertheless thanks for the forwarding, it's always nice to see an organisation sell old wine in new barrels). 20 years old and just a confirmation what is already known. source: fao, 1980 world census on agriculture, census bulletins, rome, 1980, summary on p.15. klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 07:24:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16963 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA16360 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:53:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16221 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA26794 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:53:04 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04212 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:04:08 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 11:57:32 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 11:56:47 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:56:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <1A87820650F@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2697 hello mike, >Klaus, I suspect that if you looked at your soils you would find >100 % bacterial contamination. What does this have to do with >organic produce? yep, but we're talking of ENTERO-bacteria here and these you will not find in soil by itsself (just as the name tells you). they are a clear sign of bad or wrong hygienic conditions or bad or unsatisfiing composting. and what that does have to do with organic produce ? well, it's the almost only organic growers, who use feathermeals, guano, bonemeals. for conventional farmers the relation of nutrient content vs. price is just too small. according to my findings i would say, that a farmer, who neither uses organic fertilizers NOR sewage slugde, has definite better hygienic conditions in the field than anyone, who uses EITHER of them. which other conclusion did you draw from the data ? what i never would say, that IN TOTO one of the production systems is more hygienic. i will mostly depend on the fruits you're growing. all short-culture plants like leak, radish aso MIGHT run you into trouble. here in germany there are time restrictions for sewage sludge applications, but not for fertilizers... want a real ugly experience ? just last week we found out, that main distributors for feedstuff mixed large amounts of substratum prior used for mushroom production into the feedstuff. this substratum consists of a smear of deteriorated and highly contaminated straw, barnyard manure, an uncountable number of colony-forming bacteria, residues of urea other unindentified nitrogen fertilizers. then there were amounts of mycotoxin our gas chromatographs at first could not measure (the recorder paper was too small!). cows are no waste disposers and sometimes i doubt about the sanity of human minds, who think, that this will have no consequences. here's a clear bonus for organic growers, who can (or need to) avoid such stuff and i would not recommand to use such a rubbish in the allowed 10% of external feedstuff. and you better take care of your hay and the silage processing... Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 09:29:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18133 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28485 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:50:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28475 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04318 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26883>; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:59:10 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Edna M Weigel cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Sep13.075910cdt.26883@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:46:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Johnson grass seeds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2698 (Edna asked about the correct temp & duration to denature Johnsongrass seeds before putting them in the compost pile) unless you can achieve about 1000'F for several years, I wouldn't put them in the compost pile unless you reduce them to carbon first. The seeds last forever almost under unbelieveble heat & moisture extremes. I know from personal struggles with that customer in my former life. Johnsongrass almost single-handedly destroyed commercial cotton production in Turkey in the 70's. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 11:02:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19886 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:02:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13912 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:21:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umx-mail02.missouri.edu (umx-mail02.missouri.edu [128.206.10.222]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13874 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umx-mail02 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:20:17 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kelly, Debi" To: "'sanet'" Cc: "Kerlin, Katherine E. (UMC-Student)" Subject: woman in ag Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:20:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2699 I've been asked by someone in the local media who is doing a story on women in ag, the following question: What was the percentage of women run farms in the US and in MO about 20-50 years ago and what would that percentage be today? Where might she find some good info on the web about this? She's already done a search and is finding it hard to decipher through all the "hits". Thanks, debi kelly, MAC Ask me about the 2nd National Small Farm Conference October 12-15, 1999 St Louis MO http://www.luce.lincolnu.edu/nsfc debi kelly MAC Debi Kelly, Project Manager Missouri Alternatives Center University of Missouri 531 Clark Hall, Columbia, MO 65211 573-882-1905, 800-433-3704 (MO only) kellyd@umsystem.edu http://agebb.missouri.edu/mac "There's no need to sustain the farm if there's no family to be sustained upon it." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 11:12:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20109 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16782 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:31:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16734 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA16818; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DD0B41.481F2042@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:33:37 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, lrbulluc@unity.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH References: <1A87820650F@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2700 Klaus Wiegand wrote: > hello mike, > > >Klaus, I suspect that if you looked at your soils you would find > >100 % bacterial contamination. What does this have to do with > >organic produce? > > yep, but we're talking of ENTERO-bacteria here and these you will > not find in soil by itsself (just as the name tells you). they are > a clear sign of bad or wrong hygienic conditions or bad > or unsatisfiing composting. > That's not entirely true. Enteric bacteria (from the Family Enterobacteraceae, including Enterobacter, Shigella, Escherichia, and Salmonella species) are found in soils amended with both organic and synthetic fertility amendments (research that I have been involved with show that on average, after amendment of soil with organic amendments such as cattle manure, swine manure, and different kinds of composts, a spike of enteric bacteria occurs, with between 1*10 to log 6.4-8.1, or more than 1000000 to 100000000 colony forming units, CFU, per gram of soil occurring in soils). Often populations will decline over time in soils amended with organic amendments, while increasing in soils amended with synthetic fertilizers, and over studies have found no significant difference over time in soils regardless of amendment type (1*10 to log 7.2-7.4 CFU's per gram soil). The major point I want to make is that even in soils _never_ (to my knowledge, and one study was conducted on experimental research stations) amended with organic amendments enteric bacteria are _Always_ present. The major question is whether the populations present are pathogenic to people. For the most part, the answer must be no. If pathogenic enteric bacteria were always present in soil, and since most soils (regardless of fertilizer type used) contain enteric bacteria, more food-borne illnesses (on fresh vegetables and fruit) would be attributed to them. Pathogenic enteric bacteria are accustomed (and thrive) in the gut of vertebrates (both warm- and cold-blooded organisms), usually with temps at 37 degrees C (for mammalian pathogens), and an abundant food source. The soil is an oligotrophic environment of highly variable temps and food availability, rarely meeting the optima for growth and development needed for our pathogenic friends. Any organic amendment (regardless of composting, although composted organic amendments have many advantages over uncomposted manures, not the least of which is smell) that is incorporated into the soil and left alone until harvest (2 to 3 months for most vegetables, longer for other crops) few if any pathogenic enteric bacteria will likely remain. Can anyone guarantee that no pathogenic bacteria will be in the soil at harvest, or that contamination with pathogens is impossible? No. However, the regulations required for organic production in the United States prohibit application of raw manures (and in some cases composts) a certain time period before harvest. I'm not sure whether similar regulations exist for conventional agricultural fields or not. . . > and what that does have to do with organic produce ? well, it's the > almost only organic growers, who use feathermeals, guano, > bonemeals. for conventional farmers the relation of nutrient > content vs. price is just too small. > > according to my findings i would say, that a farmer, who neither > uses organic fertilizers NOR sewage slugde, has definite better > hygienic conditions in the field than anyone, who uses EITHER of > them. which other conclusion did you draw from the data ? > Conventional farmers (especially those with other ventures such as hog farming) also use > want a real ugly experience ? just last week we found > out, that main distributors for feedstuff mixed large > amounts of substratum prior used for mushroom production > into the feedstuff. this substratum consists of a smear > of deteriorated and highly contaminated straw, barnyard manure, an > uncountable number of colony-forming bacteria, residues of urea > other unindentified nitrogen fertilizers. then there were amounts of > mycotoxin our gas chromatographs at first could not measure (the > recorder paper was too small!). cows are no waste disposers and > sometimes i doubt about the sanity of human minds, who think, that > this will have no consequences. I can see where this would be a problem. I don't think that material such as these should be placed in feeds! I do know, however, that cow love composted cotton gin trash (correctly composted to temps above 55 degrees C for at least a week or more). They eat it like molasses (according to one farmer I talked to). -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 11:35:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20589 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03337 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:01:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from quapaw.astate.edu (quapaw.astate.edu [147.97.1.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03304 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TOLTEC.astate.edu (toltec.astate.edu [147.97.7.1]) by quapaw.astate.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA27479 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:36:55 -0500 Received: from TOLTEC/MAILQUEUE by TOLTEC.astate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 08:36:47 CDT Received: from MAILQUEUE by TOLTEC (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 08:36:29 CDT From: "PATRICK STEWART" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:36:23 CST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1290 In-reply-to: <199909122210.SAA12206@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <1202A60611D@TOLTEC.astate.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2701 > RE: Farmland Preservation > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:04:44 -0400 > From: "Harris, Craig" > Subject: RE: Farmland Preservation > > while it may put the brakes on development, it does not stop development, > and it redistributes the benefits of develop . . . if the smallest parcel of > farmland that can be partitioned off is 40 acres, then only developers with > sufficient financial backing will be able to get into the game . . . a > smaller number of well-bankrolled developers will be in a stronger > bargaining position vis-a-vis the farmland owners who wish to sell their > land, and thus will be able to drive down the price paid to farmland owners > . . . once these developers own the land, they will want to maximize the > profit they obtain from their investment, so they are more likely to build > higher density subdivisions . . . they are less likely to retain five or ten > acre parcels with a single family residence, and thus they are less likely > to retain rural open space > cheers, > craig Craig, I might not fully agree with your argument for a couple of reasons: a) a study I worked on a few years ago (Stewart and Libby. "Determinants of Farmland Value: The Case of DeKalb Cty, IL" Review of Ag. Econ. 20(1):80-95) suggests that comprehensive county land use zoning at the 40 acre level outside of municipalities is an effective means of protecting farmland. While this zoning has come under attack in the courts (Case 10. Under the Blade:The Conversion of Agricultural Landscapes Eds. Richard K. Olson and Thomas A. Lyson. Boulder, CO: Westview Press. 1999:340-346), it has held firm. Of course, regional variation and level of suburbanization pressures are also key determinants, as are political conditions. b) The argument for the benefits of small "farmettes" is, I do not believe, well-founded. In addition to leading to greater reliance on automobiles, the open space retained by these large-lot spaces are often not ecologically sound as this land is not as permeable as farmland, leading to less aquifer recharge and greater potential for flooding (again, depending on the region). In addition, land held in these types of land uses (and associated types such as golf courses), often use higher amounts of pesticides and fertilizer, with associated non-point source pollution problems. However, I will agree with you on the potential for socio-economic domination by larger companies and concurrent stratification of society based upon economic well-being. However, it may be best that we consider mechanisms that keep farming as decentralized as possible and provide economic supports for this activity (esp. as it serves ecological and food security needs) all the while keeping a toolbox of zoning tools supporting development within preexisting communities. However, as prefaced earlier- an awful lot of this argument is based upon the specific situation faced in specific locales and addresses development on prime farmland, not access to farmland by farmers. A good source of information that may be utilized is found at the Farmland Information Library: http://farm.fic.niu.edu/fic/home.html Cheers and good luck, Patrick > > craig k harris > department of sociology > michigan state university > 429b berkey hall > east lansing michigan 48824-1111 > tel: 517-355-5048 > fax: 517-432-2856 > > > > ---------- > > From: Paul Schmitmeyer[SMTP:ps@erinet.com] > > Sent: Friday 10 September 1999 6:58 AM > > To: Sanet > > Subject: Farmland Preservation > > > > Hi all, > > In our area there is a county that recently voted for legislation that > > the smallest parcel of land that can be sold off a farm is 40 acres. This > > put the brakes on any developement. Anyone that wants to build has to > > purchase a 40 acre plot reducing the number of people finacially able to > > do that. Furthermore, most people would probably opt to rent out the > > remaining acreage. > > Paul > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > End of sanet-mg-digest V1 #1290 > ******************************* > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the comannd > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > Patrick A. Stewart, Ph.D. Department of Political Science P.O. Box 1750 Arkansas State University State University, AR 72467 (870) 972-3048 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 14:19:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24487 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20122 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:05:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20110 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] (empmac.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.48]) by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25088 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:01:42 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: Calif. Drafting Regs. for Methyl Bromide, Chloropicrin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2702 This is a press release from the California Department of Pesticide Regulation. for further information, contact DPR's Communications office: Veda Federighi (916) 445-3974 or Glenn Brank (916) 445-3970 **************************************** Kathy Brunetti, Senior Land and Water Analyst California Department of Pesticide Regulation **************************************** September 13, 1999 (99-22) DPR Drafting Regulations for Methyl Bromide, Chloropicrin SACRAMENTO- Cal/EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation is developing statewide regulations on the agricultural use of methyl bromide and chloropicrin, DPR Director Paul E. Helliker announced today. In addition to those two fumigants, DPR is re-evaluating other high-risk pesticides to determine if new regulations are appropriate. These mandatory rules would replace some of the discretionary controls now set at the county level, said Helliker. "Since 1979, the state has relied on county agricultural commissioners to decide on use restrictions for many pesticides used in their counties, and this process has usually worked well," he said. "Because we have new data on risks and exposure to these chemicals, it is time to re-examine our system to ensure that it continues protecting public health and our environment." Helliker emphasized that county agricultural commissioners will maintain an integral role in regulating pesticides. "While commissioners must retain some flexibility to respond to local conditions, they also can benefit from statewide directives that are unambiguous and consistent," he said. "The public and pesticide users benefit too, because the rules are clear and apply statewide." Transferring some permit restrictions into regulatory requirements will meet two important DPR goals, said Helliker. "First, it ensures the uniform enforcement of use practices we feel are most critical to protecting health and the environment. Second, our use of the formal regulatory process will allow the public to have a voice in the outcome." Helliker said that promulgating conditions for the use of restricted chemicals -- such as buffer zones around fields fumigated with methyl bromide -- are part of an overall reassessment of DPR enforcement policies and procedures. "While I believe that California has the nation's best pesticide regulatory program, we can always improve," said Helliker. "Our rules must be clear, and they must be carried out fairly and equitably." California's system for regulating the most toxic pesticides is the strictest in the nation. California is the only state that requires users of these "restricted materials" to obtain both special training and a site-specific permit from their county agricultural commissioner. When considering whether to issue a permit, commissioners must first take into account the presence of sensitive sites in the area -- for example, schools, hospitals, and residential neighborhoods. A commissioner may deny the permit, or may require specific use practices designed to protect health and the environment. DPR provides guidelines for specific use practices that commissioners may require before granting a permit. A number of factors motivated DPR to begin the rulemaking process. Under the Birth Defects Prevention Act of 1984, DPR required additional health effects studies to be performed on methyl bromide and other pesticides. DPR recently completed a risk characterization for methyl bromide that is currently undergoing scientific peer review before release to the general public. DPR risk assessments for about two dozen other pesticides are also in progress. DPR will consider regulations to address any additional safety measures indicated by these risk assessments. In addition, DPR held a symposium on methyl bromide monitoring techniques in late June. Participants made a number of recommendations on changes in methodologies to improve the accuracy of monitoring. Those recommendations -- which could also alter buffer zones -- will be reflected in the regulations, Helliker said. Finally, a recent San Francisco Superior Court decision requiring DPR to adopt regulations on field fumigation use for methyl bromide and chloropicrin will also be factored into the rulemaking process. Helliker said that in the coming weeks, the Department will discuss possible approaches to regulations for methyl bromide and chloropicrin with representatives of activist groups and the regulated community. These informal discussions will be followed by the formal public notification and comment period required for all proposed regulations, including a public hearing if one is requested. One of six boards and departments within the California Environmental Protection Agency, DPR regulates the use of pesticides to protect human health and the environment. # To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 14:19:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24486 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:19:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25897 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:12:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from purple.tmn.com (purple.tmn.com [205.177.137.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25863 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tmn.com ([164.106.173.25]) by purple.tmn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12974; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:07:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DD2C9A.AA11DD74@tmn.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:55:54 -0400 From: tabeles Reply-To: tabeles@tmn.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roberto Verzola CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, foodfirst@foodfirst.org Subject: Re: New Report Lauds Small Farms References: <199909100336.LAA12379@phil.gn.apc.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B38EF74EC43C01F1D9F09391" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2703 --------------B38EF74EC43C01F1D9F09391 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It would be wonderful if someone could write a serious defense of the small farm from a systems perspective. The Food First white paper certainly falls far short. One of the major issues is its attempt to globalize when the size of the farming operations are often dependent of highly local bio/physical restrainsts, first and socio/economic factors second. In developing countries where starving/landless peasants are given an opportunity to produce, there are real opportunities. There the productivity is directed to immediate need and not necssarily off-farm export to generate capital to participate in the Nintendo world of global commerce. On the other hand, the small farm in the wheat belt of the US has always had its problems ever since the US government convinced immigrants that they should fund the railroads by buying small plots on which to start a farming operation. External issues also enter into the equation when farmers start wanting manufactured goods. Raw material production has always had trouble generating capital to purchase value added commodities. As the demand for the latter rises in the farmers, either they get bigger or they generate more profits from their holdings. Of course, when food goes up, so does manufactured goods and we are back to square one. This, of course, has been the rationale for value added processes in farming- not always possible. The Food First paper, in staying at the macro level and meshing third and first world looks good on the surface. But the devil is in the details thoughts? tom abeles --------------B38EF74EC43C01F1D9F09391 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
     
    It would be wonderful if someone could write a serious defense of the small farm from a systems perspective. The Food First white paper certainly falls far short. One of the major issues is its attempt to globalize when the size of the farming operations are often dependent of highly local bio/physical restrainsts, first and socio/economic factors second. In developing countries where starving/landless peasants are given an opportunity to produce, there are real opportunities. There the productivity is directed to immediate need and not necssarily off-farm export to generate capital to participate in the Nintendo world of global commerce. On the other hand, the small farm in the wheat belt of the US has always had its problems ever since the US government convinced immigrants that they should fund the railroads by buying small plots on which to start a farming operation.

    External issues also enter into the equation when farmers start wanting manufactured goods. Raw material production has always had trouble generating capital to purchase value added commodities. As the demand for the latter rises in the farmers, either they get bigger or they generate more profits from their holdings. Of course, when food goes up, so does manufactured goods and we are back to square one. This, of course, has been the rationale for value added processes in farming- not always possible.

    The Food First paper, in staying at the macro level and meshing third and first world looks good on the surface. But the devil is in the details

    thoughts?

    tom abeles
     
      --------------B38EF74EC43C01F1D9F09391-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 14:49:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25053 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00957 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:30:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00465 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DigitalArk.ark.com (io5p39.ark.com [209.53.216.191]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with ESMTP id KAA15711 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:26:56 -0700 Message-Id: <199909131726.KAA15711@ark.com> From: "Ellen Rainwalker" To: Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1286 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:46:02 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2704 Re Roger Beachey's reply to the letters criticizing GM crops - did you notice that he calls Bt a "protein" - another example of pro-GM doublespeak. What's next - calling a virus a "vitamin"? Do they really think we are all that stupid? Ellen To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 15:33:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26319 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05209 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:48:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA05167 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:48:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.52] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ka237572 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:46:15 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01befe18$ae700640$349fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "Jim Worstell" To: "Ellen Rainwalker" , Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1286 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:49:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2705 Ellen, Roger Beachey in the early 80s was known for "Beachey Blots." These were smudges on electrophoretic gels which he alleged were something important, but which few others could be sure were anything other than smudges. I encountered him on numerous occasions before I had the sense to get out of genetic engineering. He is like many other gene jockeys: too much hubris and too lacking in liberal arts education to even know it. However, in this case, the "Bt gene" inserted in various plants does produce a protein which causes most of its insecticidal properties. It wouldn't surprise me at all that he muddied the waters and tried to confuse folks. He was good at that in the early 80s and has had plenty of time to practice since then. But he is probably a fine man who loves his wife and children. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Ellen Rainwalker To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 1:06 PM Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1286 >Re Roger Beachey's reply to the letters criticizing GM crops - did you >notice that he calls Bt a "protein" - another example of pro-GM >doublespeak. What's next - calling a virus a "vitamin"? Do they really >think we are all that stupid? Ellen > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 16:50:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28497 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10108 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:57:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10092 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA27103 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990913160619.007c06b0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:06:19 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: News Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2706 Some news from the agriculture.com site Novartis to back biotech awareness efforts To help educate US consumers about the benefits of plant biotechnology research, Novartis is launching two new initiatives. The company will invest $300,000 to build a display at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago called "Farm to Plate." Each year, it will reach the museum's 2 million visitors including more than 400,000 children. The company has also awarded a $150,000 three-year grant to the Washington DC-based Biotechnology Institute to produce and distribute "Your World" magazine, which goes to thousands of science teachers in the US and emphasizes practical applications of bioscience research. 09/13/1999 08:29 a.m.CDT And a little shameless self promotion as well!! Farmers promoted in 'local heros' campaign Residents of western Massachusetts are being hailed as heroes for producing and buying local farm goods. The "Be a Local Hero, Buy Locally Grown" education campaign launched by the Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA), hopes to drive up demand for local farm products, thus helping preserve the rural landscape, the environment, and local communities. "Our research shows that consumers want to support local farms, but don't always know what products are local when they shop," says Margaret Christie, CISA director. "We're helping people realize that it's easy to get produce, milk, meat, and eggs from local sources." To date, 15 retailers are using "local heroes" promotional materials in their stores. Learn more here: http://www.buylocalfood.com. 09/13/1999 08:41 a.m.CDT Mark Lattanzi ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. Check out our web site!!! www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 17:49:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00596 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21171 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:04:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21074 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id UAA01324; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:29:04 GMT Message-ID: <37DD5E6D.6926DB15@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:28:29 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Johnsongrass seeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2707 To properly dispose of the collected johnsongrass seed, place in paper bag, place paper bag on small mound of crumpled newspaper in a clear area. Strike match to crumpled newspaper. Stand by with hose to douse any escaping embers. To ensure problem is not repeated next year, when johnsongrass leaves appear, wipe with sponge soaked in abour 4% solution of Roundup. Wear rubber gloves. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 17:52:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00699 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05478 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:23:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05324 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id UAA01358; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:49:06 GMT Message-ID: <37DD6310.8D382183@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:48:16 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Preserving farmland Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2708 Also look at USDA web site for leads to the Farmland Protection Act. It is only viable in a few states because it requires the states to develope and run the program. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 20:02:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03356 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01727 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:33:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hdflns01.hostdepot.com (ns1.hostdepot.com [12.8.12.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01623 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cafarmersmarkets.org (pool0629.cvx25-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.218.119]) by hdflns01.hostdepot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id SRMP0XP1; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:31:41 -0400 Message-ID: <37DD8DA2.49558BE1@cafarmersmarkets.org> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:49:54 -0700 From: Phil Gillman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: ClearingHouse Proposal References: <199909131432.KAA17112@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2709 Hello All, A web clearing house for sustainable agriculture news and "truth in advertising" is a project that i would be very interested in working on, and would be willing to invest a decent amount of time into- perhaps off list we should begin an informal email chain to discuss it- I would be willing to do a fair amount of coding and setup, and at least some maintenance as well. Perhaps we could round up some sponsors as well- Phil Gillman 1022 Amorosa Pl Venice CA 90291 Fresh_Earth@hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 13 21:23:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04921 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29706 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29607 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04519 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA12410 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:56:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:56:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Johnsongrass seeds In-Reply-To: <37DD5E6D.6926DB15@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2710 On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, mike richardson wrote: > To properly dispose of the collected johnsongrass seed, place in paper > bag, place paper bag on small mound of crumpled newspaper in a clear > area. Strike match to crumpled newspaper. Stand by with hose to douse > any escaping embers. Where the smoke touches the ground it will sprout and flourish. Incineration only makes it more determined. > > To ensure problem is not repeated next year, when johnsongrass leaves > appear, wipe with sponge soaked in abour 4% solution of Roundup. Wear > rubber gloves. To ensure no further problems contaminating you or your property with the dreaded RoundUp (TM), take unused portion, in original container back to where you bought it and demand your money be returned since they wittingly sold you a product only the HAZMAT people should be allowed to handle. No further comment. dirtfarmer Son of the Earth Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Sep 12 17:56:37 1999 -0400 Received: from BROWNVM.brown.edu (brownvm.brown.edu [128.148.19.19]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10353 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909122156.RAA10353@luna.oit.unc.edu> Received: from BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU by BROWNVM.brown.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with BSMTP id 6229; Sun, 12 Sep 99 17:57:24 EDT Received: from BROWNVM (NJE origin HI500010@BROWNVM) by BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9701; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:57:24 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 99 17:56:23 EDT From: Tom Allen Subject: Re: DDT Use in Third World Countries To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2711 It was NPR. I heard it too, lauded by a medical doctor as the only viable solu tion to malarial epidemics in the tropics. Tom Allen From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 07:08:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10838 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA24406 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:40:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24334 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26762 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp75.green.eri.net [207.90.124.139]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA44696 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002701befe9f$d04cc5a0$8b7c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: 40 Acres Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:56:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BEFE7E.46D74500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2712 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BEFE7E.46D74500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again Patrick and all, I must be missing the point here somewhere or left out some details. = In the zoning area I mentioned, the land was all zoned agricultural with = the smallest amount to be sold off to anyone would be the 40 acres. This = means; no housing, no factories, no streets, no nothing but one house. Am I still missing something? Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BEFE7E.46D74500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi again Patrick and = all,
        I must be missing = the point=20 here somewhere or left out some details. In the zoning area I mentioned, = the=20 land was all zoned agricultural with the smallest amount to be sold off = to=20 anyone would be the 40 acres. This means; no housing, no factories, no = streets,=20 no nothing but one house.
        Am I still = missing=20 something?
    Paul
    ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BEFE7E.46D74500-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 08:04:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11250 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA29327 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:35:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29285 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:35:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27487 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:34:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA05493; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:33:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-154.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.154) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005346; Tue Sep 14 06:31:45 1999 Message-ID: <002e01befea4$cc1b85c0$9afb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Paul Schmitmeyer" , "Sanet" Subject: Re: 40 Acres Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:32:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEFE83.433D1500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2713 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEFE83.433D1500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My question to this zoning law would be, is the original owner = compensated for the loss of value of the farm, ie the difference in = price if sold as house lots or as 40 acre farm chunks? I hate to see = open space lost to development. But as a farm owner I don't want my = right to choose taken away. We would love to sell development rights, = but we are not in a postion to "donate" the land to the town or state. = Beth -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer To: Sanet Date: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:05 AM Subject: 40 Acres =20 =20 Hi again Patrick and all, I must be missing the point here somewhere or left out some = details. In the zoning area I mentioned, the land was all zoned = agricultural with the smallest amount to be sold off to anyone would be = the 40 acres. This means; no housing, no factories, no streets, no = nothing but one house. Am I still missing something? Paul ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEFE83.433D1500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    My question to this zoning law would = be, is the=20 original owner compensated for the loss of value of the farm, ie the = difference=20 in price if sold as house lots or as 40 acre farm chunks?  I hate = to see=20 open space lost to development.  But as a farm owner I don't want = my right=20 to choose taken away.  We would love to sell development rights, = but we are=20 not in a postion to "donate" the land to the town or = state. =20 Beth
    -----Original = Message-----
    From:=20 Paul Schmitmeyer <ps@erinet.com>
    To: = Sanet <sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu>
    Date:=20 Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:05 AM
    Subject: 40=20 Acres

    Hi again Patrick and = all,
        I must be = missing the=20 point here somewhere or left out some details. In the zoning area I=20 mentioned, the land was all zoned agricultural with the smallest = amount to=20 be sold off to anyone would be the 40 acres. This means; no housing, = no=20 factories, no streets, no nothing but one house.
        Am I still = missing=20 something?
    Paul
    ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEFE83.433D1500-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 08:48:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11836 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28749 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:18:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA28717 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id HAA01894; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:17:33 -0500 Received: from firescan01.phibred.com(170.54.240.21) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma001349; Tue, 14 Sep 99 07:16:46 -0500 Received: from 170.54.241.13 by firescan01.phibred.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:16:48 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:16:46 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF00@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Johnsongrass seeds Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:16:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2714 Lawrence, >> To ensure problem is not repeated next year, when >> johnsongrass leaves appear, wipe with sponge soaked in >> abour 4% solution of Roundup. Wear rubber gloves. > To ensure no further problems contaminating you or your > property with the dreaded RoundUp (TM), take unused portion, > in original container back to where you bought it and demand > your money be returned since they wittingly sold you a > product only the HAZMAT people should be allowed to handle. Wow! Get real! Roundup is just fine, and safe, for spot treating nasty weeds like johnsongrass. Most grasses are especially susceptible to Roundup and it will give a reliable kill on things like johnsongrass and quackgrass. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 09:11:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12290 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:11:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09328 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:36:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09289 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:36:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7FTZa06249 (7807) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42541610.250f9a47@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:32:07 EDT Subject: Report on attendance at the 2nd Workshop on "Research Methodologies in Organic F To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2715 September 12, 1999 >From Eric Kindberg Ripplebrook Organic Growers, Fairfield, Iowa, A report on attendance at the 2nd Workshop on "Research Methodologies in Organic Farming" can be found at: http://members.aol.com/organic4um/info/research.html The workshop was sponsored by the regional office for Europe of the UN's Food and Agriculture Office, FAO. The Mediterranean Agronomic Institute of Bari, Italy hosted the group for the three day meeting. Attendees were present from Egypt, Italy, Turkey, Germany, Lithuania, France, Palestine, Albania, Austria, Denmark, Greece, Poland, Bulgaria, Iowa and MA USA, United Kingdom, Hungary, Switzerland, Slovenia, Netherlands, Bosnia, Croatia and Tunisia. Proposals are being made that an organic research section be considered for inclusion in the 2001 US Farm Bill. The track record of agricultural and university research institutions and USDA/State extension agents regarding organic farming has been exceedingly poor. Organic farmers themselves have and continue to be the self-financiers and basis of organic farming research. Suggesting a 2001 Farm Bill section raises serious questions of what is the best research methodology for organic farming and what are the substantial questions needing answers. The meeting, that unfortunately only two organic farmers were in attendance, directed its attention to these issues and may be useful in the US discussion of an organic research agenda and methodology. The 1999 FAO-REU workshop participants defined the term "pilot farms" as encompassing three categories of "on farm research" projects. In the previous, 1998 FAO-REU workshop the convening group had concluded that all organic farming research should be performed in consultation and co-operation with organic farmers. Organic farmers are "experts" at farm production and management in their own right and must receive "benefits" commensurate with their research support and work. Such a direct involvement with organic farmers is defined as "participatory research." The website has on display a copy of the table generated at the workshop discussing categories of "pilot farm research" at the address http://members.aol.com/organic4um/info/research.htmlInterim report on: The following is report of the workshop on the following issues: IMPROVING ORGANIC FARMING TECHNIQUES TO REDUCE THE ENVRIONMENTAL IMPACT Objectives: To consider new techniques and/or improvement of existing techniques within participatory on-farm research, and To network information within the organic community. Overarching organic community concerns: Climate change Pollution of air water and land Soil erosion and degradation in soil quality Loss of biodiversity Landscape quality (aesthetic and cultural) Use of non-renewable resources Negative impact caused by GE introduction Forest fires and farm waste management On-farm concerns: Organic farming standards set forth an ideal that reduces farmer, farm worker environmental and consumer health risk. However, associated with all food and fiber production systems there is an environmental impact to a greater or lessor extent. Organic farmers recognize potential negative environmental impact from their practices and systems. Among the factors to be considered and for which further improvement have been identified as need are: Nutrient losses Optimization of nutrient cycles/management in different agro-ecological systems Soil quality and assessment, restoration and conservation including Retention of soil structure and development of humus Environmental impact of tillage Water management within soil Biotic considerations: Multi-functional cropping systems that include legumes. Considering integration of perennial and annual species. Soil microbiology and invertebrate species enhancement. Crop protection Weed control strategies. Pest and disease control strategies--effect on target and non-target species. Maintaining local genetic pools--Evaluation, selection and development of appropriate plant cultivars and livestock breeds for organic farming systems. Livestock, nutrition, health, welfare and impact on soil and water conditions. Livestock waste management. To create a public understanding of the positive benefits from organic farming: To date there has been considerable research efforts investigating negative impacts of commercial farming. There now needs to be a shift of emphasis to quantifying the benefits of organic farming in regard to: Landscape quality Biodiversity Storage of carbon in soil Increased humus, water retention and fertility Ecological sound infrastructure management We recommend these research and extension approaches: Determination of a scale of activity, question of single or multiple farms or fields -Systems comparison, as appropriate; -Knowing when to make best use of conventional research; -A combination of on-farm/plot trials and whole farm monitoring/documentation, as appropriate; -Farmer participation in determining and implementing research programs; -Utilizing pilot and demonstration farm networks. We appreciate the assistance of the Humane Society US and others in attending the conference. Best regards, Eric Erorganic@aol.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 09:37:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12738 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23195 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:09:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23188 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:09:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:12:53 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: AFT's Conservation Easements conference Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:12:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2716 Sanet: Along the lines of farmland preservation, American Farmland Trust sponsors this conference: CALL FOR PROPOSALS American Farmland Trust's 13th Annual Purchase of Agricultural Conservation Easements Conference PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future April 8-10, 2000 East Windsor, New Jersey Hosted by New Jersey State Agriculture Development Committee Sponsored by Monmouth Conservation Foundation New Jersey Conservation Foundation Supported by Partners for Livable Communities Deadline for Proposals: October 15, 1999 CALL FOR PROPOSALS American Farmland Trust's 13th Annual Purchase of Agricultural Conservation Easements Conference PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future * What is PACE 2000 AFT's annual conference on Purchase of Agricultural Conservation Easement programs is the nation's largest gathering of farmland protection program managers, organizers and landowners. Now in its 13 year, the conference offers the most comprehensive training available on how to develop and administer state, local and private programs to purchase easements on working farms and ranches. * Conference Goal The goals of this year's conference are to: increase the effectiveness of PACE programs, promote new program development, illustrate how PACE programs can help ensure the permanence of agriculture in a community, and encourage the economic, social and environmental benefits that result from this permanence. * Audience The conference is designed especially for program managers, land trusts, community organizations, landowners, public officials and others interested in buying or selling agricultural conservation easements or developing a farmland protection program. * Workshop Format The conference will consist of two days of sessions and workshops in classroom and round-table style settings. Sessions will be 90 minutes long and run concurrently. Speakers have flexibility in form and method of presentation. Emphasis should be placed on practical information and tools, problem solving, model programs and policy development. * When and Where All sessions will be held on Monday April 9 and Tuesday April 10 in East Windsor, N.J. at The National Conference Center at the Ramada Inn. An opening banquet will be held on Sunday evening April 8 at the conference center. * Selection Deadline for proposals is Friday, October 15th, 1999. Sessions will be selected on the basis of their relevance to conference goals and PACE program objectives. If your proposal is accepted, you will be notified by December 1, 1999. A final workshop description, materials for the conference workbook, and audiovisual requests are due by February 1, 2000. * Responsibilities of Speakers All speakers are expected to register for the conference and are responsible for making and paying for their own travel and accommodations. SUGGESTED WORKSHOP TOPICS Please submit proposals in one of these three categories: 1) PACE Fundamentals, 2) Technical Issues, and 3) Special Topics. The following are suggested ideas for possible workshops: 1. PACE Fundamentals * How to Create a PACE Program * Funding a PACE Program * Essential Ingredients in an Agricultural Conservation Easement * How to Gain Public Support * How to Grant or Sell an Easement * Case Studies on Getting Started 2. Technical Issues * Valuing Easements * Financing Easement Restricted Farms * How State and Local Programs Interact * Strategies to Minimize Landowners' Tax Burdens * Securitizable Installment Payment Agreements * Media Strategies in Crafting a PACE Campaign * Monitoring and Enforcing Easements * Using PACE as Part of an Estate Planning Strategy * Investment Strategies for PACE Proceeds 3. Special Topics * Writing Easements to Effect Multiple Environmental Enhancements * Using Transfer of Development Rights Programs to Complement PACE * Public Relations Training for Working with Media * Agricultural Economic Development * Urban Growth Boundaries * GIS and Making Maps * Federal Policy Report * Costs of Sprawl Please submit an abstract (300 word maximum) and a short biography by October 15, 1999 to Lynn Johnson, American Farmland Trust, One Short Street, Northampton, MA 01060. Phone: (413) 586-9330, Fax: (413) 586-9332, or ljohnson@farmland.org . For updated information visit our website at www.farmland.org . Workshop Proposal for PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future Please Print Clearly or Type Proposed Workshop Title_____________________________________________________ Name of Presenter___________________________________________________________ Title/Profession____________________________________________________________ _ Company/Organization_______________________________________________________ Address ___________________________________________________________________ City________________________________________State_____ Zip___________________ Telephone_____________________________ FAX ________________________________ Email Address ______________________________________________________________ Co-presenter(s) if any________________________________________________________ Title/Profession _____________________________________________________________ Company/Organization _______________________________________________________ Subject Area: ___ PACE Fundamentals ___ Technical Issues ___ Special Topics Format: ___ Lecture with Q &A ___ Roundtable ___ Guided Discussion On a separate sheet of paper please provide a typed description of the workshop you are proposing (maximum 300 words) and a brief biography of your qualifications. Send to: Lynn Johnson American Farmland Trust Herrick Mill, One Short Street Northampton, MA 01060 Tel: (413) 586-9330 Fax: (413) 586-9332 Email: ljohnson@farmland.org This form can also be found on AFT's web site To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 12:52:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16623 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00523 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:59:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00480 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.132]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA17104 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:52:12 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990914105626.00731464@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:56:26 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: FAO Conf.Comments by Rosset in Maastricht Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA00520 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2717 Dear SANET, Here are some comments by Peter Rosset on the proceedings at the FAO Confrence on the Multifunctional Character of Agriculture. >From: rosset@foodfirst.org >Sent: 14 September 1999 11:14 >To: agr99-Conference >Cc: rosset@sirius.com >Subject: an NGO report from Maastricht > >Dear members of the virtual conference: > >As an NGO participant here in Maastricht I wish to share >some impressions at lunch time of the third day. But >first, to introduce myself: I am Peter Rosset of Food >First/The Institute for Food and Development Policy, based in the >USA, but I am the official participant on behalf of the >Global Forum for Sustainable Nutrition and Food Security, >based in Brazil, which has hundreds of civil society >organization members from both South and North countries >worldwide. > >NGO participation has thus far been frustrating for two >reasons: > >1. The rules of engagement are such that the floor is >first given to each government who wishes to speak, >then to each multi-lateral agency who wishes to speak, >and finally, if there are a few minutes left over, the >NGOs, unions and other civil society actors may get a word >or two in edgewise (when everyone is already exhausted >and ready to leave!). > >2. There appears to be a coordinated and well orchestrated effort by the >Cairns Groups countries and followers to sabotage this meeting. For those >not "in the know," the Cairns Group brings togteher the major grain >exporting countries and 'friends.' These include the United States (the >leader), Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, >Paraguay, >and some others. A few countries who, based on objective criteria, should >not be in this group, but due to political pressure are, seem to include the >Philippines and some others. > >The Cairns Group is locked in mortal combat with the EU on the agricultural >negotiations leading up to the WTO ministerial in Seattle later this year. >While the Europeans would like to preserve some protection for their >farmers, the big grain exporters want >complete free trade on a global scale (for obviously selfish reasons -- >which is not to say that Europe does not have selfish motivations as well! >After all, the North is the North!). The Cairns Group is very worried that >Southern nations may rally around multi-functionality in opposition to >further >trade liberalization in the WTO, so they are trying to drive a wedge between >Europe and the South ('divide and conquer'). > >Therefore each time a Cairns reprsentative speaks, he or she says (always >using the exact same language as though they were programmed robots) that >multi-functionality is a European conspiracy to maintain export subsidies >(not true -- if it is a selfish argument from Europe, it is to protect >themselves from U.S. dumping), that it is a "meaningless and useless >concept," and that it is a diguise for all kinds of "trade distorting" >policies. They further argue that "trade distorting mechanisms" always >damage the environment and increase poverty. With these arguments they hope >this meeting will produce nothing, and that >most Southern countries will join with the U.S. and the other >big grain exporters in voting for full liberalization in Seattle. > >This is very unfortunate, for if most South countries join the >U.S. in this, they will be committing rural suicide. If they are >lured by anti-EU sentiments into dropping their own sovereignty >and right to protect and guide their own agricultural development, they run >the risk of having their economies innundated with cheap Cairns group >exports, which will undercut their own rural producers and intensify the >collapse of rural livelihhods and the exodus to the cities. > >Because the Cairns Groups members and their followers are numerous, and >because their strategy is to monopolize the floor and endlessless repeat the >same mantra, the meeting has become a very depressing exercise. > >We seem to wasting what would be an excellent opportunity to work together >on policies that could create enabling macroeconomic environments and other >policies to realize the full multi-functional potential of agriculture, >particularly on how to maximize the potential and participation of poor, >small farmers in their domestic economies. > >Virtually all the NGO representatives are very frustrated, but we will >continue to struggle to make the remaining days productive. > >See my paper for this conference posted at the >Food First website: http://www.foodfirst.org > >Best wishes to all, >Peter > > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 15:30:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20702 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14071 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14059 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18192; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA08129; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:59:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:59:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "Wilson, Dale" cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Johnsongrass seeds In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF00@vela.phibred.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2718 On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Wilson, Dale wrote: > Wow! Get real! Roundup is just fine, and safe, for spot treating nasty weeds > like johnsongrass. Most grasses are especially susceptible to Roundup and > it will give a reliable kill on things like johnsongrass and quackgrass. 1) With market gardening you can till, pull, dig or outcompete with companion crop enough of the pest weed to make this method worth considering 2) With broad acre farming your method is too labor intensive thus necessitating overuse of the pesticide through mass spraying - not good for the land 3) Give your advice to the average homeowner gardener and landscaper and they will usually misuse the herbicide, rarely taking the trouble to use it as you and Mike suggested. 4)You can get rid of Johnson grass with the right kind of tillage and cover cropping; Bermuda grass, pigweed and crabgrass too. I have done it on 5 acres. Ask me and I'll tell you how. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 15:49:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21134 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10707 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:09:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wintermute.essex1.com (wintermute.essex1.com [206.31.1.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10689 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lorin ([206.31.15.211]) by wintermute.essex1.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-54437U8000L800S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:13:22 -0500 Message-ID: <004b01befee4$89875960$d30f1fce@lorin> From: "Lorin Unterberger" To: Subject: Re: educational farms Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:02:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2719 hi folks I am thinking of leaving the farm for a while. I was wondering if anyone knows of any educational sustainable farms possibly focusing on disadvantaged youth that may have openings. cheers Lorin Unterberger Pine Creek Organic Farm. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From guldann@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 14 17:07:38 1999 Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22666 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:07:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA23183; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:06:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-154.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.154) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021979; Tue Sep 14 16:01:45 1999 Message-ID: <00a301befef4$6fa7dd20$9afb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Cc: Subject: Re: Johnsongrass seeds Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:02:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2720 >Lawrence wrote: >4)You can get rid of Johnson grass with the right kind of tillage and >cover cropping; Bermuda grass, pigweed and crabgrass too. I have done it >on 5 acres. Ask me and I'll tell you how. > I'm asking! We have a field of about 10 acres due to poor management by our tenant it's over run in assorted weeds. While we don't have time to take over the whole field, we are thinking of 3ish acres. It has an assortment of weeds mostly jimson and I can't think of the name of the other one (my husband is the weed expert). It has sort of oak leaf sized leaves and thorns, my husband says it has tap roots. What would be the best cover crop for this fall. If we decides to take on this project, we will plant pumpkins there next year. And while we're on the subject aren't there pumpkin growing "tricks" such as planting red clover between the rows? Thanks Beth From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 17:43:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23558 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10778 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:09:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10738 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA23183; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:06:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-154.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.154) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021979; Tue Sep 14 16:01:45 1999 Message-ID: <00a301befef4$6fa7dd20$9afb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Cc: Subject: Re: Johnsongrass seeds Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:02:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2721 >Lawrence wrote: >4)You can get rid of Johnson grass with the right kind of tillage and >cover cropping; Bermuda grass, pigweed and crabgrass too. I have done it >on 5 acres. Ask me and I'll tell you how. > I'm asking! We have a field of about 10 acres due to poor management by our tenant it's over run in assorted weeds. While we don't have time to take over the whole field, we are thinking of 3ish acres. It has an assortment of weeds mostly jimson and I can't think of the name of the other one (my husband is the weed expert). It has sort of oak leaf sized leaves and thorns, my husband says it has tap roots. What would be the best cover crop for this fall. If we decides to take on this project, we will plant pumpkins there next year. And while we're on the subject aren't there pumpkin growing "tricks" such as planting red clover between the rows? Thanks Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 18:04:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23913 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19467 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:22:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from quapaw.astate.edu (quapaw.astate.edu [147.97.1.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19147 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TOLTEC.astate.edu (toltec.astate.edu [147.97.7.1]) by quapaw.astate.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28808 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:24:51 -0500 Received: from TOLTEC/MAILQUEUE by TOLTEC.astate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 14 Sep 99 16:20:14 CDT Received: from MAILQUEUE by TOLTEC (Mercury 1.44); 14 Sep 99 16:20:01 CDT From: "PATRICK STEWART" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:19:52 CST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1294 In-reply-to: <199909141603.MAA01935@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <13FF7D9133F@TOLTEC.astate.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2722 > > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:56:32 -0400 > From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" > Subject: 40 Acres > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > - ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BEFE7E.46D74500 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi again Patrick and all, > I must be missing the point here somewhere or left out some details. = > In the zoning area I mentioned, the land was all zoned agricultural with = > the smallest amount to be sold off to anyone would be the 40 acres. This = > means; no housing, no factories, no streets, no nothing but one house. > Am I still missing something? > Paul > Paul As the DeKalb County zoning has it, landowners can not subdivide the land into small "farmettes" (which usually end up being one house on five acres of weeds). There are a few parcels in DeKalb County that have been "grandfathered" in at smaller parcel levels (<40 acres and with a house on it), but no new divisions (and new houses) may occur unless the land does not have a house built on the subdivided land (i.e., if you divide a 40 acre parcel with one house, you can not subdivide it into two 20 acre parcels with two houses). However, the zoning may be changed if it is annexed by a municipality that is immediately adjacent to the land (there are some other expectations based on legal cases that are too extensive to go into here). > > My question to this zoning law would be, is the original owner = > compensated for the loss of value of the farm, ie the difference in = > price if sold as house lots or as 40 acre farm chunks? I hate to see = > open space lost to development. But as a farm owner I don't want my = > right to choose taken away. We would love to sell development rights, = > but we are not in a postion to "donate" the land to the town or state. = > Beth I fully agree with you on the ability to choose-- however, due to sprawl, increased taxation, the reduction of agriculture support services, etc. there is a need to explore the entire toolbox of land use policy. Agricultural zoning is only one approach, and it hopefully helps farmers retain the use-value of the land while preventing negative land development. I could not make any statements on selling development rights (purchase of development rights (PDR) and transfer of development rights (TDR) only have enabling legislation allowing for them to be used in certain states -- and there is the further question of which land to buy and who will pay for it. American Farmland Trust has done a good bit of research into this area, especially in the Chicago-area. The PACE conference mentioned below might also be a good place to check.) Either way, good luck. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Schmitmeyer > To: Sanet > Date: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:05 AM > Subject: 40 Acres > =20 > =20 > Hi again Patrick and all, > I must be missing the point here somewhere or left out some = > details. In the zoning area I mentioned, the land was all zoned = > agricultural with the smallest amount to be sold off to anyone would be = > the 40 acres. This means; no housing, no factories, no streets, no = > nothing but one house. > Am I still missing something? > Paul > > - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEFE83.433D1500 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> HTML//EN"> > > > >
    My question to this zoning law would = > be, is the=20 > original owner compensated for the loss of value of the farm, ie the = > difference=20 > in price if sold as house lots or as 40 acre farm chunks?  I hate = > to see=20 > open space lost to development.  But as a farm owner I don't want = > my right=20 > to choose taken away.  We would love to sell development rights, = > but we are=20 > not in a postion to "donate" the land to the town or = > state. =20 > Beth
    > style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = > 5px"> >
    -----Original = > Message-----
    From:=20 > Paul Schmitmeyer < href=3D"mailto:ps@erinet.com">ps@erinet.com>
    To: = > Sanet < = > href=3D"mailto:sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu">sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu A>>
    Date:=20 > Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:05 AM
    Subject: 40=20 > Acres

    >
    Hi again Patrick and = > all,
    >
        I must be = > missing the=20 > point here somewhere or left out some details. In the zoning area I=20 > mentioned, the land was all zoned agricultural with the smallest = > amount to=20 > be sold off to anyone would be the 40 acres. This means; no housing, = > no=20 > factories, no streets, no nothing but one house.
    >
        Am I still = > missing=20 > something?
    >
    size=3D2>Paul
    > > - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEFE83.433D1500-- > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:16:45 -0500 > From: "Wilson, Dale" > Subject: RE: Johnsongrass seeds > > Lawrence, > > >> To ensure problem is not repeated next year, when > >> johnsongrass leaves appear, wipe with sponge soaked in > >> abour 4% solution of Roundup. Wear rubber gloves. > > > To ensure no further problems contaminating you or your > > property with the dreaded RoundUp (TM), take unused portion, > > in original container back to where you bought it and demand > > your money be returned since they wittingly sold you a > > product only the HAZMAT people should be allowed to handle. > > Wow! Get real! Roundup is just fine, and safe, for spot treating nasty weeds > like johnsongrass. Most grasses are especially susceptible to Roundup and > it will give a reliable kill on things like johnsongrass and quackgrass. > > Dale > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:32:07 EDT > From: Erorganic@aol.com > Subject: Report on attendance at the 2nd Workshop on "Research Methodologies in Organic F > > September 12, 1999 > > From Eric Kindberg > Ripplebrook Organic Growers, > Fairfield, Iowa, > > A report on attendance at the 2nd Workshop on "Research Methodologies in > Organic Farming" can be found at: > http://members.aol.com/organic4um/info/research.html > > The workshop was sponsored by the regional office for Europe of the UN's Food > and Agriculture Office, FAO. The Mediterranean Agronomic Institute of Bari, > Italy hosted the group for the three day meeting. > > Attendees were present from Egypt, Italy, Turkey, Germany, Lithuania, France, > Palestine, Albania, Austria, Denmark, Greece, Poland, Bulgaria, Iowa and MA > USA, United Kingdom, Hungary, Switzerland, Slovenia, Netherlands, Bosnia, > Croatia and Tunisia. > > Proposals are being made that an organic research section be considered for > inclusion in the 2001 US Farm Bill. The track record of agricultural and > university research institutions and USDA/State extension agents regarding > organic farming has been exceedingly poor. Organic farmers themselves have > and continue to be the self-financiers and basis of organic farming research. > > > Suggesting a 2001 Farm Bill section raises serious questions of what is the > best research methodology for organic farming and what are the substantial > questions needing answers. The meeting, that unfortunately only two organic > farmers were in attendance, directed its attention to these issues and may be > useful in the US discussion of an organic research agenda and methodology. > > The 1999 FAO-REU workshop participants defined the term "pilot farms" as > encompassing three categories of "on farm research" projects. In the > previous, 1998 FAO-REU workshop the convening group had concluded that all > organic farming research should be performed in consultation and co-operation > with organic farmers. Organic farmers are "experts" at farm production and > management in their own right and must receive "benefits" commensurate with > their research support and work. Such a direct involvement with organic > farmers is defined as "participatory research." > > The website has on display a copy of the table generated at the workshop > discussing categories of "pilot farm research" at the address > http://members.aol.com/organic4um/info/research.htmlInterim report on: > > The following is report of the workshop on the following issues: > > IMPROVING ORGANIC FARMING TECHNIQUES TO REDUCE THE ENVRIONMENTAL IMPACT > > Objectives: > To consider new techniques and/or improvement of existing techniques within > participatory on-farm research, and > To network information within the organic community. > > > Overarching organic community concerns: > Climate change > Pollution of air water and land > Soil erosion and degradation in soil quality > Loss of biodiversity > Landscape quality (aesthetic and cultural) > Use of non-renewable resources > Negative impact caused by GE introduction > Forest fires and farm waste management > > On-farm concerns: > Organic farming standards set forth an ideal that reduces farmer, farm worker > environmental and consumer health risk. However, associated with all food > and fiber production systems there is an environmental impact to a greater or > lessor extent. Organic farmers recognize potential negative environmental > impact from their practices and systems. > Among the factors to be considered and for which further improvement have > been identified as need are: > > Nutrient losses > Optimization of nutrient cycles/management in different agro-ecological > systems > > Soil quality and assessment, restoration and conservation including > Retention of soil structure and development of humus > Environmental impact of tillage > Water management within soil > > Biotic considerations: > Multi-functional cropping systems that include legumes. > Considering integration of perennial and annual species. > Soil microbiology and invertebrate species enhancement. > Crop protection > Weed control strategies. > Pest and disease control strategies--effect on target and non-target > species. > Maintaining local genetic pools--Evaluation, selection and development of > appropriate plant cultivars and livestock breeds for organic farming systems. > Livestock, nutrition, health, welfare and impact on soil and water conditions. > Livestock waste management. > > To create a public understanding of the positive benefits from organic > farming: > To date there has been considerable research efforts investigating negative > impacts of commercial farming. There now needs to be a shift of emphasis to > quantifying the benefits of organic farming in regard to: > Landscape quality > Biodiversity > Storage of carbon in soil > Increased humus, water retention and fertility > Ecological sound infrastructure management > > We recommend these research and extension approaches: > Determination of a scale of activity, question of single or multiple farms or > fields > - -Systems comparison, as appropriate; > - -Knowing when to make best use of conventional research; > - -A combination of on-farm/plot trials and whole farm > monitoring/documentation, as appropriate; > - -Farmer participation in determining and implementing research programs; > - -Utilizing pilot and demonstration farm networks. > > > > We appreciate the assistance of the Humane Society US and others in attending > the conference. > > Best regards, > > Eric > Erorganic@aol.com > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:12:47 -0400 > From: Andy Clark > Subject: AFT's Conservation Easements conference > > Sanet: > > Along the lines of farmland preservation, American Farmland Trust sponsors > this conference: > > CALL FOR PROPOSALS > > American Farmland Trust's > 13th Annual Purchase of Agricultural Conservation Easements Conference > > > PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future > > > April 8-10, 2000 > East Windsor, New Jersey > > Hosted by > New Jersey State Agriculture Development Committee > > Sponsored by > Monmouth Conservation Foundation > New Jersey Conservation Foundation > > Supported by > Partners for Livable Communities > > Deadline for Proposals: October 15, 1999 > > > > > > > > CALL FOR PROPOSALS > > American Farmland Trust's > 13th Annual Purchase of Agricultural Conservation Easements Conference > > PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future > > * What is PACE 2000 > AFT's annual conference on Purchase of Agricultural > Conservation Easement programs is the nation's largest gathering of farmland > protection program managers, organizers and landowners. Now in its 13 year, > the conference offers the most comprehensive training available on how to > develop and administer state, local and private programs to purchase > easements on working farms and ranches. > > * Conference Goal > The goals of this year's conference are to: increase the > effectiveness of PACE programs, promote new program development, illustrate > how PACE programs can help ensure the permanence of agriculture in a > community, and encourage the economic, social and environmental benefits > that result from this permanence. > > * Audience > The conference is designed especially for program managers, > land trusts, community organizations, landowners, public officials and > others interested in buying or selling agricultural conservation easements > or developing a farmland protection program. > > * Workshop Format > The conference will consist of two days of sessions and > workshops in classroom and round-table style settings. Sessions will be 90 > minutes long and run concurrently. Speakers have flexibility in form and > method of presentation. Emphasis should be placed on practical information > and tools, problem solving, model programs and policy development. > > * When and Where > All sessions will be held on Monday April 9 and Tuesday > April 10 in East Windsor, N.J. at The National Conference Center at the > Ramada Inn. An opening banquet will be held on Sunday evening April 8 at > the conference center. > > * Selection > Deadline for proposals is Friday, October 15th, 1999. > Sessions will be selected on the basis of their relevance to conference > goals and PACE program objectives. If your proposal is accepted, you will > be notified by December 1, 1999. A final workshop description, materials > for the conference workbook, and audiovisual requests are due by February 1, > 2000. > > * Responsibilities of Speakers > All speakers are expected to register for the conference and > are responsible for making and paying for their own travel and > accommodations. > SUGGESTED WORKSHOP TOPICS > > > Please submit proposals in one of these three categories: 1) PACE > Fundamentals, 2) Technical Issues, and 3) Special Topics. The following are > suggested ideas for possible workshops: > > 1. PACE Fundamentals > > * How to Create a PACE Program > * Funding a PACE Program > * Essential Ingredients in an Agricultural Conservation > Easement > * How to Gain Public Support > * How to Grant or Sell an Easement > * Case Studies on Getting Started > > > 2. Technical Issues > > * Valuing Easements > * Financing Easement Restricted Farms > * How State and Local Programs Interact > * Strategies to Minimize Landowners' Tax Burdens > * Securitizable Installment Payment Agreements > * Media Strategies in Crafting a PACE Campaign > * Monitoring and Enforcing Easements > * Using PACE as Part of an Estate Planning Strategy > * Investment Strategies for PACE Proceeds > > > 3. Special Topics > > * Writing Easements to Effect Multiple Environmental > Enhancements > * Using Transfer of Development Rights Programs to Complement > PACE > * Public Relations Training for Working with Media > * Agricultural Economic Development > * Urban Growth Boundaries > * GIS and Making Maps > * Federal Policy Report > * Costs of Sprawl > > > Please submit an abstract (300 word maximum) and a short biography by > October 15, 1999 to Lynn Johnson, American Farmland Trust, One Short Street, > Northampton, MA 01060. > Phone: (413) 586-9330, Fax: (413) 586-9332, or ljohnson@farmland.org > . > For updated information visit our website at www.farmland.org > . > > > Workshop Proposal for > > PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future > > Please Print Clearly or Type > > Proposed Workshop Title_____________________________________________________ > > Name of Presenter___________________________________________________________ > > Title/Profession____________________________________________________________ > _ > > Company/Organization_______________________________________________________ > > Address ___________________________________________________________________ > > City________________________________________State_____ > Zip___________________ > > Telephone_____________________________ FAX ________________________________ > > Email Address ______________________________________________________________ > > Co-presenter(s) if > any________________________________________________________ > > Title/Profession > _____________________________________________________________ > > Company/Organization _______________________________________________________ > > Subject Area: > ___ PACE Fundamentals ___ Technical Issues ___ Special Topics > > Format: > ___ Lecture with Q &A ___ Roundtable ___ Guided Discussion > > On a separate sheet of paper please provide a typed description of the > workshop you are proposing (maximum 300 words) and a brief biography of your > qualifications. > > Send to: > Lynn Johnson > American Farmland Trust > Herrick Mill, One Short Street > Northampton, MA 01060 > Tel: (413) 586-9330 Fax: (413) 586-9332 > Email: ljohnson@farmland.org > This form can also be found on AFT's web site > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:28:25 -0400 > From: Allan Balliett > Subject: Joel Salatin at Claymont October 1-3 > > August 14, 1999 > > Joel Salatin, Family Farming Innovator > October 1-3 Claymont Court, Charles Town,WV > http://www.igg.com/bdnow/bdconf/ > CONTACT: Allan Balliett (304) 724-6763 > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > One of Americas most dynamic and innovative farmers will address the Fourth > Annual Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Food and Farming Conference October 1-3 at > Claymont Court in Charles Town, West Virginia. > > Promoting food production that is environmentally, emotionally and > economically enhancing for both producer and consumer, Joel Salatin is a > third generation organic farmer. His presentations about the familys > 550-acre Shenandoah Valley farm continually receive standing ovations. > > He has authored three books, You Can Farm, Pastured Poultry Profits and > Salad Bar Beef. His columns appear in Stockman Grass Farmer and Quit You > Like Men magazines. > > A word craftsman and sought after conference speaker, Salatin describes his > diverse farm enterprises with ear-catching phrases, salad bar beef, > pastured poultry, pigaerator pork, pastured rabbits. And what he calls > relationship marketing to 400 cheerleaders gives him full retail dollars > for everything the farm produces. He addresses a wide range of issues, from > creating the farm your children will want to making a white collar salary > from a pleasant life in the country. > > Although his message is a decidedly positive one, it draws clear > distinctions between food produced in inhumane, factory farms and food > produced in pasture-based, animal friendly farms. > > His presentations carry several themes: Let animals do the work, value > adding through marketing, diversity and multiple-use, organic matter, fully > utilizing resources before buying anything. Woven throughout his talk has a > strong consumer thrust: If you want an agriculture that does not pump > animals full of drugs and hormones, pollute the water, erode the soil and Patrick A. Stewart, Ph.D. Department of Political Science P.O. Box 1750 Arkansas State University State University, AR 72467 (870) 972-3048 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 18:31:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24342 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:31:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02206 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:48:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from quapaw.astate.edu (quapaw.astate.edu [147.97.1.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02138 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TOLTEC.astate.edu (toltec.astate.edu [147.97.7.1]) by quapaw.astate.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28808 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:24:51 -0500 Received: from TOLTEC/MAILQUEUE by TOLTEC.astate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 14 Sep 99 16:20:14 CDT Received: from MAILQUEUE by TOLTEC (Mercury 1.44); 14 Sep 99 16:20:01 CDT From: "PATRICK STEWART" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:19:52 CST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1294 In-reply-to: <199909141603.MAA01935@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <13FF7D9133F@TOLTEC.astate.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2723 > > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:56:32 -0400 > From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" > Subject: 40 Acres > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > - ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BEFE7E.46D74500 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi again Patrick and all, > I must be missing the point here somewhere or left out some details. = > In the zoning area I mentioned, the land was all zoned agricultural with = > the smallest amount to be sold off to anyone would be the 40 acres. This = > means; no housing, no factories, no streets, no nothing but one house. > Am I still missing something? > Paul > Paul As the DeKalb County zoning has it, landowners can not subdivide the land into small "farmettes" (which usually end up being one house on five acres of weeds). There are a few parcels in DeKalb County that have been "grandfathered" in at smaller parcel levels (<40 acres and with a house on it), but no new divisions (and new houses) may occur unless the land does not have a house built on the subdivided land (i.e., if you divide a 40 acre parcel with one house, you can not subdivide it into two 20 acre parcels with two houses). However, the zoning may be changed if it is annexed by a municipality that is immediately adjacent to the land (there are some other expectations based on legal cases that are too extensive to go into here). > > My question to this zoning law would be, is the original owner = > compensated for the loss of value of the farm, ie the difference in = > price if sold as house lots or as 40 acre farm chunks? I hate to see = > open space lost to development. But as a farm owner I don't want my = > right to choose taken away. We would love to sell development rights, = > but we are not in a postion to "donate" the land to the town or state. = > Beth I fully agree with you on the ability to choose-- however, due to sprawl, increased taxation, the reduction of agriculture support services, etc. there is a need to explore the entire toolbox of land use policy. Agricultural zoning is only one approach, and it hopefully helps farmers retain the use-value of the land while preventing negative land development. I could not make any statements on selling development rights (purchase of development rights (PDR) and transfer of development rights (TDR) only have enabling legislation allowing for them to be used in certain states -- and there is the further question of which land to buy and who will pay for it. American Farmland Trust has done a good bit of research into this area, especially in the Chicago-area. The PACE conference mentioned below might also be a good place to check.) Either way, good luck. Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Schmitmeyer > To: Sanet > Date: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:05 AM > Subject: 40 Acres > =20 > =20 > Hi again Patrick and all, > I must be missing the point here somewhere or left out some = > details. In the zoning area I mentioned, the land was all zoned = > agricultural with the smallest amount to be sold off to anyone would be = > the 40 acres. This means; no housing, no factories, no streets, no = > nothing but one house. > Am I still missing something? > Paul > > - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEFE83.433D1500 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> HTML//EN"> > > > >
    My question to this zoning law would = > be, is the=20 > original owner compensated for the loss of value of the farm, ie the = > difference=20 > in price if sold as house lots or as 40 acre farm chunks?  I hate = > to see=20 > open space lost to development.  But as a farm owner I don't want = > my right=20 > to choose taken away.  We would love to sell development rights, = > but we are=20 > not in a postion to "donate" the land to the town or = > state. =20 > Beth
    > style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = > 5px"> >
    -----Original = > Message-----
    From:=20 > Paul Schmitmeyer < href=3D"mailto:ps@erinet.com">ps@erinet.com>
    To: = > Sanet < = > href=3D"mailto:sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu">sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu A>>
    Date:=20 > Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:05 AM
    Subject: 40=20 > Acres

    >
    Hi again Patrick and = > all,
    >
        I must be = > missing the=20 > point here somewhere or left out some details. In the zoning area I=20 > mentioned, the land was all zoned agricultural with the smallest = > amount to=20 > be sold off to anyone would be the 40 acres. This means; no housing, = > no=20 > factories, no streets, no nothing but one house.
    >
        Am I still = > missing=20 > something?
    >
    size=3D2>Paul
    > > - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEFE83.433D1500-- > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:16:45 -0500 > From: "Wilson, Dale" > Subject: RE: Johnsongrass seeds > > Lawrence, > > >> To ensure problem is not repeated next year, when > >> johnsongrass leaves appear, wipe with sponge soaked in > >> abour 4% solution of Roundup. Wear rubber gloves. > > > To ensure no further problems contaminating you or your > > property with the dreaded RoundUp (TM), take unused portion, > > in original container back to where you bought it and demand > > your money be returned since they wittingly sold you a > > product only the HAZMAT people should be allowed to handle. > > Wow! Get real! Roundup is just fine, and safe, for spot treating nasty weeds > like johnsongrass. Most grasses are especially susceptible to Roundup and > it will give a reliable kill on things like johnsongrass and quackgrass. > > Dale > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:32:07 EDT > From: Erorganic@aol.com > Subject: Report on attendance at the 2nd Workshop on "Research Methodologies in Organic F > > September 12, 1999 > > From Eric Kindberg > Ripplebrook Organic Growers, > Fairfield, Iowa, > > A report on attendance at the 2nd Workshop on "Research Methodologies in > Organic Farming" can be found at: > http://members.aol.com/organic4um/info/research.html > > The workshop was sponsored by the regional office for Europe of the UN's Food > and Agriculture Office, FAO. The Mediterranean Agronomic Institute of Bari, > Italy hosted the group for the three day meeting. > > Attendees were present from Egypt, Italy, Turkey, Germany, Lithuania, France, > Palestine, Albania, Austria, Denmark, Greece, Poland, Bulgaria, Iowa and MA > USA, United Kingdom, Hungary, Switzerland, Slovenia, Netherlands, Bosnia, > Croatia and Tunisia. > > Proposals are being made that an organic research section be considered for > inclusion in the 2001 US Farm Bill. The track record of agricultural and > university research institutions and USDA/State extension agents regarding > organic farming has been exceedingly poor. Organic farmers themselves have > and continue to be the self-financiers and basis of organic farming research. > > > Suggesting a 2001 Farm Bill section raises serious questions of what is the > best research methodology for organic farming and what are the substantial > questions needing answers. The meeting, that unfortunately only two organic > farmers were in attendance, directed its attention to these issues and may be > useful in the US discussion of an organic research agenda and methodology. > > The 1999 FAO-REU workshop participants defined the term "pilot farms" as > encompassing three categories of "on farm research" projects. In the > previous, 1998 FAO-REU workshop the convening group had concluded that all > organic farming research should be performed in consultation and co-operation > with organic farmers. Organic farmers are "experts" at farm production and > management in their own right and must receive "benefits" commensurate with > their research support and work. Such a direct involvement with organic > farmers is defined as "participatory research." > > The website has on display a copy of the table generated at the workshop > discussing categories of "pilot farm research" at the address > http://members.aol.com/organic4um/info/research.htmlInterim report on: > > The following is report of the workshop on the following issues: > > IMPROVING ORGANIC FARMING TECHNIQUES TO REDUCE THE ENVRIONMENTAL IMPACT > > Objectives: > To consider new techniques and/or improvement of existing techniques within > participatory on-farm research, and > To network information within the organic community. > > > Overarching organic community concerns: > Climate change > Pollution of air water and land > Soil erosion and degradation in soil quality > Loss of biodiversity > Landscape quality (aesthetic and cultural) > Use of non-renewable resources > Negative impact caused by GE introduction > Forest fires and farm waste management > > On-farm concerns: > Organic farming standards set forth an ideal that reduces farmer, farm worker > environmental and consumer health risk. However, associated with all food > and fiber production systems there is an environmental impact to a greater or > lessor extent. Organic farmers recognize potential negative environmental > impact from their practices and systems. > Among the factors to be considered and for which further improvement have > been identified as need are: > > Nutrient losses > Optimization of nutrient cycles/management in different agro-ecological > systems > > Soil quality and assessment, restoration and conservation including > Retention of soil structure and development of humus > Environmental impact of tillage > Water management within soil > > Biotic considerations: > Multi-functional cropping systems that include legumes. > Considering integration of perennial and annual species. > Soil microbiology and invertebrate species enhancement. > Crop protection > Weed control strategies. > Pest and disease control strategies--effect on target and non-target > species. > Maintaining local genetic pools--Evaluation, selection and development of > appropriate plant cultivars and livestock breeds for organic farming systems. > Livestock, nutrition, health, welfare and impact on soil and water conditions. > Livestock waste management. > > To create a public understanding of the positive benefits from organic > farming: > To date there has been considerable research efforts investigating negative > impacts of commercial farming. There now needs to be a shift of emphasis to > quantifying the benefits of organic farming in regard to: > Landscape quality > Biodiversity > Storage of carbon in soil > Increased humus, water retention and fertility > Ecological sound infrastructure management > > We recommend these research and extension approaches: > Determination of a scale of activity, question of single or multiple farms or > fields > - -Systems comparison, as appropriate; > - -Knowing when to make best use of conventional research; > - -A combination of on-farm/plot trials and whole farm > monitoring/documentation, as appropriate; > - -Farmer participation in determining and implementing research programs; > - -Utilizing pilot and demonstration farm networks. > > > > We appreciate the assistance of the Humane Society US and others in attending > the conference. > > Best regards, > > Eric > Erorganic@aol.com > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:12:47 -0400 > From: Andy Clark > Subject: AFT's Conservation Easements conference > > Sanet: > > Along the lines of farmland preservation, American Farmland Trust sponsors > this conference: > > CALL FOR PROPOSALS > > American Farmland Trust's > 13th Annual Purchase of Agricultural Conservation Easements Conference > > > PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future > > > April 8-10, 2000 > East Windsor, New Jersey > > Hosted by > New Jersey State Agriculture Development Committee > > Sponsored by > Monmouth Conservation Foundation > New Jersey Conservation Foundation > > Supported by > Partners for Livable Communities > > Deadline for Proposals: October 15, 1999 > > > > > > > > CALL FOR PROPOSALS > > American Farmland Trust's > 13th Annual Purchase of Agricultural Conservation Easements Conference > > PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future > > * What is PACE 2000 > AFT's annual conference on Purchase of Agricultural > Conservation Easement programs is the nation's largest gathering of farmland > protection program managers, organizers and landowners. Now in its 13 year, > the conference offers the most comprehensive training available on how to > develop and administer state, local and private programs to purchase > easements on working farms and ranches. > > * Conference Goal > The goals of this year's conference are to: increase the > effectiveness of PACE programs, promote new program development, illustrate > how PACE programs can help ensure the permanence of agriculture in a > community, and encourage the economic, social and environmental benefits > that result from this permanence. > > * Audience > The conference is designed especially for program managers, > land trusts, community organizations, landowners, public officials and > others interested in buying or selling agricultural conservation easements > or developing a farmland protection program. > > * Workshop Format > The conference will consist of two days of sessions and > workshops in classroom and round-table style settings. Sessions will be 90 > minutes long and run concurrently. Speakers have flexibility in form and > method of presentation. Emphasis should be placed on practical information > and tools, problem solving, model programs and policy development. > > * When and Where > All sessions will be held on Monday April 9 and Tuesday > April 10 in East Windsor, N.J. at The National Conference Center at the > Ramada Inn. An opening banquet will be held on Sunday evening April 8 at > the conference center. > > * Selection > Deadline for proposals is Friday, October 15th, 1999. > Sessions will be selected on the basis of their relevance to conference > goals and PACE program objectives. If your proposal is accepted, you will > be notified by December 1, 1999. A final workshop description, materials > for the conference workbook, and audiovisual requests are due by February 1, > 2000. > > * Responsibilities of Speakers > All speakers are expected to register for the conference and > are responsible for making and paying for their own travel and > accommodations. > SUGGESTED WORKSHOP TOPICS > > > Please submit proposals in one of these three categories: 1) PACE > Fundamentals, 2) Technical Issues, and 3) Special Topics. The following are > suggested ideas for possible workshops: > > 1. PACE Fundamentals > > * How to Create a PACE Program > * Funding a PACE Program > * Essential Ingredients in an Agricultural Conservation > Easement > * How to Gain Public Support > * How to Grant or Sell an Easement > * Case Studies on Getting Started > > > 2. Technical Issues > > * Valuing Easements > * Financing Easement Restricted Farms > * How State and Local Programs Interact > * Strategies to Minimize Landowners' Tax Burdens > * Securitizable Installment Payment Agreements > * Media Strategies in Crafting a PACE Campaign > * Monitoring and Enforcing Easements > * Using PACE as Part of an Estate Planning Strategy > * Investment Strategies for PACE Proceeds > > > 3. Special Topics > > * Writing Easements to Effect Multiple Environmental > Enhancements > * Using Transfer of Development Rights Programs to Complement > PACE > * Public Relations Training for Working with Media > * Agricultural Economic Development > * Urban Growth Boundaries > * GIS and Making Maps > * Federal Policy Report > * Costs of Sprawl > > > Please submit an abstract (300 word maximum) and a short biography by > October 15, 1999 to Lynn Johnson, American Farmland Trust, One Short Street, > Northampton, MA 01060. > Phone: (413) 586-9330, Fax: (413) 586-9332, or ljohnson@farmland.org > . > For updated information visit our website at www.farmland.org > . > > > Workshop Proposal for > > PACE 2000: Foundations for the Future > > Please Print Clearly or Type > > Proposed Workshop Title_____________________________________________________ > > Name of Presenter___________________________________________________________ > > Title/Profession____________________________________________________________ > _ > > Company/Organization_______________________________________________________ > > Address ___________________________________________________________________ > > City________________________________________State_____ > Zip___________________ > > Telephone_____________________________ FAX ________________________________ > > Email Address ______________________________________________________________ > > Co-presenter(s) if > any________________________________________________________ > > Title/Profession > _____________________________________________________________ > > Company/Organization _______________________________________________________ > > Subject Area: > ___ PACE Fundamentals ___ Technical Issues ___ Special Topics > > Format: > ___ Lecture with Q &A ___ Roundtable ___ Guided Discussion > > On a separate sheet of paper please provide a typed description of the > workshop you are proposing (maximum 300 words) and a brief biography of your > qualifications. > > Send to: > Lynn Johnson > American Farmland Trust > Herrick Mill, One Short Street > Northampton, MA 01060 > Tel: (413) 586-9330 Fax: (413) 586-9332 > Email: ljohnson@farmland.org > This form can also be found on AFT's web site > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:28:25 -0400 > From: Allan Balliett > Subject: Joel Salatin at Claymont October 1-3 > > August 14, 1999 > > Joel Salatin, Family Farming Innovator > October 1-3 Claymont Court, Charles Town,WV > http://www.igg.com/bdnow/bdconf/ > CONTACT: Allan Balliett (304) 724-6763 > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > One of Americas most dynamic and innovative farmers will address the Fourth > Annual Mid-Atlantic Biodynamic Food and Farming Conference October 1-3 at > Claymont Court in Charles Town, West Virginia. > > Promoting food production that is environmentally, emotionally and > economically enhancing for both producer and consumer, Joel Salatin is a > third generation organic farmer. His presentations about the familys > 550-acre Shenandoah Valley farm continually receive standing ovations. > > He has authored three books, You Can Farm, Pastured Poultry Profits and > Salad Bar Beef. His columns appear in Stockman Grass Farmer and Quit You > Like Men magazines. > > A word craftsman and sought after conference speaker, Salatin describes his > diverse farm enterprises with ear-catching phrases, salad bar beef, > pastured poultry, pigaerator pork, pastured rabbits. And what he calls > relationship marketing to 400 cheerleaders gives him full retail dollars > for everything the farm produces. He addresses a wide range of issues, from > creating the farm your children will want to making a white collar salary > from a pleasant life in the country. > > Although his message is a decidedly positive one, it draws clear > distinctions between food produced in inhumane, factory farms and food > produced in pasture-based, animal friendly farms. > > His presentations carry several themes: Let animals do the work, value > adding through marketing, diversity and multiple-use, organic matter, fully > utilizing resources before buying anything. Woven throughout his talk has a > strong consumer thrust: If you want an agriculture that does not pump > animals full of drugs and hormones, pollute the water, erode the soil and Patrick A. Stewart, Ph.D. Department of Political Science P.O. Box 1750 Arkansas State University State University, AR 72467 (870) 972-3048 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 19:29:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25203 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09032 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:03:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09023 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13978 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp119.green.eri.net [207.90.124.183]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA06847 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101beff07$81038ca0$b77c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: 40 acres Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:18:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEFEE5.F8B30400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2724 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEFEE5.F8B30400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello beth and all, I understand your feelings about your right to choose. However can = you understand that this is nothing but greed involved. You may be = thinking "Wonder what he would say if the shoe was on the other foot?" = Well, we are wearing one of those shoes right now. We have land the town = wants to purchase. I don't want to but have not been able to convince my = family otherwise. We could sure use the money. My position is still not = to sell. All laws tend to upset someone but you have to start somewhere = and someone is not going to like it.=20 Thats all for now. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEFEE5.F8B30400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hello beth and all,
        I understand your = feelings=20 about your right to choose. However can you understand that this is = nothing but=20 greed involved. You may be thinking "Wonder what he would say if = the shoe=20 was on the other foot?" Well, we are wearing one of those shoes = right now.=20 We have land the town wants to purchase. I don't want to but have not = been able=20 to convince my family otherwise. We could sure use the money. My = position is=20 still not to sell. All laws tend to upset someone but you have to start=20 somewhere and someone is not going to like it.
    Thats all for now.
    Paul
    ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BEFEE5.F8B30400-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 19:58:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26455 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15612 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:10:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.uky.edu (smtp.uky.edu [128.163.2.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15540 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.2.16]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14094; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncc.uky.edu.uky.edu ([128.163.196.145]) by pop.uky.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA17802; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990914190828.00698298@pop.uky.edu> X-Sender: toria@pop.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:08:28 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, iffs@nal.usda.gov, naos@agron.iastate.edu From: Victoria Mundy Subject: Agriculture in scriptures compilation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2725 Apologies for cross posting..... >From Aug. 26 - Sept. 1, some of us held an off-list discussion, trading snippets of scriptures and stories from various religions and mythologies, concerning agriculture. It was a really good learning time. If you'd like to see a compilation of the messages, please e-mail me privately. Thanks! Victoria ************************************* Victoria Mundy Dept. of Agronomy N106R Ag. Sci. North, UK Lexington, KY 40546-0091 606/257-2103 ************************************* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 14 22:29:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29178 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24762 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:01:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24620 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:01:25 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:00:21 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:00:20 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.79] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1507033c ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:00:02 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990914205029.00993890@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:50:29 -0500 To: Subject: Sewage Sludge Labeling Bill Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2726 Just a little something to stir the pot. I wonder how they define "sewage sludge"? Municipal/industrial waste treatment sludge only or do they include animal wastes and slurries? Mike Miller Sourced though http://thomas.loc.gov/. To amend the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act and the egg, meat, and poultry inspection laws to ensure that consumers receive notification regarding food products produced from crops, livestock,... (Introduced in the House) HR 261 IH1S 106th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 261 To amend the Food , Drug, and Cosmetic Act and the egg, meat, and poultry inspection laws to ensure that consumers receive notification regarding food products produced from crops, livestock, or poultry raised on land on which sewage sludge was applied. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES January 6, 1999 Mr. SERRANO introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Commerce, and in addition to the Committee on Agriculture, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned A BILL To amend the Food , Drug, and Cosmetic Act and the egg, meat, and poultry inspection laws to ensure that consumers receive notification regarding food products produced from crops, livestock, or poultry raised on land on which sewage sludge was applied. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. NOTIFICATION TO CONSUMERS OF FOOD PRODUCTS PRODUCED ON LAND ON WHICH SEWAGE SLUDGE HAS BEEN APPLIED. (a) ADULTERATED FOOD UNDER FEDERAL FOOD , DRUG, AND COSMETIC ACT- Section 402 of the Federal Food , Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 342) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph: `(h)(1) If it is a food (intended for human consumption and offered for sale) that was produced, or contains any ingredient that was produced, on land on which sewage sludge was applied, unless-- `(A) the application of sewage sludge to the land terminated more than one year before the date on which the production of the food or ingredient on the land commenced; `(B) the food bears a label that clearly indicates that the food , or an ingredient of the food , was produced on land on which sewage sludge was applied; or `(C) in the case of a raw agricultural commodity or other food generally offered for sale without labeling , a sign is posted within close proximity of the food to notify consumers that the food , or an ingredient of the food , was produced on land on which sewage sludge was applied.'. (b) ADULTERATED FOOD UNDER EGG PRODUCTS INSPECTION ACT- Section 4(a) of the Egg Products Inspection Act (21 U.S.C. 1033(a)) is amended-- (1) by striking `or' at the end of paragraph (7); (2) by striking the period at the end of paragraph (8) and inserting `; or'; and (3) by adding at the end the following new paragraph: `(9) if it is derived from poultry that were raised, or that consumed animal feed produced, on land on which sewage sludge was applied, unless-- `(A) the application of sewage sludge to the land terminated more than one year before the date on which the poultry began to be raised on the land or the date on which the production of the animal feed on the land commenced; or `(B) the container bears a label that clearly indicates that the egg or egg product was derived from poultry that-- `(i) were raised on land on which sewage sludge was applied; or `(ii) consumed animal feed produced on land on which sewage sludge was applied.'. (c) ADULTERATED FOOD UNDER FEDERAL MEAT INSPECTION ACT- Section 1(m) of the Federal Meat Inspection Act (21 U.S.C. 601(m)) is amended-- (1) by striking `or' at the end of paragraph (8); (2) by striking the period at the end of paragraph (9) and inserting `; or'; and (3) by adding at the end the following new paragraph: `(10) if it is derived from livestock that grazed, or consumed animal feed produced, on land on which sewage sludge was applied, unless-- `(A) the application of sewage sludge to the land terminated more than one year before the date on which the livestock began grazing on the land or the date on which the production of the animal feed on the land commenced; `(B) the carcass, part thereof, meat or meat food product bears a label that clearly indicates that the livestock-- `(i) grazed on land on which sewage sludge was applied; or `(ii) consumed animal feed produced on land on which sewage sludge was applied; or `(C) in the case of a carcass, part thereof, meat or meat food product generally offered for sale without labeling , a sign is posted within close proximity of the item to notify consumers that the livestock-- `(i) grazed on land on which sewage sludge was applied; or `(ii) consumed animal feed produced on land on which sewage sludge was applied.'. (d) ADULTERATED FOOD UNDER POULTRY PRODUCTS INSPECTION ACT- Section 4(g) of the Egg Products Inspection Act (21 U.S.C. 453(g)) is amended-- (1) by striking `or' at the end of paragraph (7); (2) by striking the period at the end of paragraph (8) and inserting `; or'; and (3) by adding at the end the following new paragraph: `(9) if it is derived from poultry that were raised, or that consumed animal feed produced, on land on which sewage sludge was applied, unless-- `(A) the application of sewage sludge to the land terminated more than one year before the date on which the poultry began to be raised on the land or the date on which the production of the animal feed on the land commenced; `(B) the poultry product bears a label that clearly indicates that the poultry contained in the product-- `(i) were raised on land on which sewage sludge was applied; or `(ii) consumed animal feed produced on land on which sewage sludge was applied; or `(C) in the case of a poultry product generally offered for sale without labeling , a sign is posted within close proximity of the item to notify consumers that the poultry contained in the product-- `(i) were raised on land on which sewage sludge was applied; or `(ii) consumed animal feed produced on land on which sewage sludge was applied.'. (e) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendments made by this section shall take effect one year after the date of the enactment of this Act. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 08:31:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04638 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11744 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:45:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11725 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24355 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA00626; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:42:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1d-154.ix.netcom.com(209.110.251.154) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000555; Wed Sep 15 06:42:18 1999 Message-ID: <002b01beff6f$76aaa460$9afb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Paul Schmitmeyer" , "Sanet" Subject: Re: 40 acres Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:42:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEFF4D.ED70A620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2727 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEFF4D.ED70A620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Be advised, in our situation all concerned are in agreement not to sell. = HOWEVER we live in a town that 50 years ago was primarily all farms. = It is now primarily all houses. Guess there was a bit of selling out! = We are on one of the last acreage's left. Why because we've haven't = sold out. A year ago our property was in consideration for a school, = emanate domain that would have been. The town made weak noises about = purchasing our land this spring, offered us pennies(well also feel they = do not want it for open space but municipal use). So I get a bit miffed = when governments start noising around our land. Land I must add is = available, open, and a working farm because of OUR hard work. We never = want to sell, honestly. However I said it before we are not in a = financial place that we want to or can or even think its fair to reduce = the value of our land because other squandered theirs. We are in = Massachusetts and they do have and APR program. We have been told that = there is quite a waiting list and were also told don't rush into it. = This from someone who's farm is in the APR. They have been having = problems with the "fine print" on the contracts. I guess it keeps = changing! =20 What would help keep more farmland open is more help to farmers, not = handouts, but stuff like training, business advice, help in advertising = etc. Massachusetts is I think better than many. Our land is taxed as a = farm (we'd have to pay back taxes if we sold for big bucks), the Ma. = Dept of Food and Ag this summer started a radio buy local campaign. = They do have training classes and other stuff. =20 I honestly believe it isn't always as you said greed that makes someone = sell out, but simply no reason to go one farming. There is a chunk of land near me 60 acres I think. It has not only been = a farm for 200+ years it has been owned by the same family. A for sale = sign just went up. It has been zoned industrial for some time, there = are two high tech companies already bordering it. One heir is retaining = her houselot and a few acres. The other heirs live far away and realize = as a farm it is unlikely any one will want it. They don't wish to farm. = Oh and the town hasn't bought it either :). Of course the price tag is = high (probably too high in the industrial market around here) over 1 or = 2 million. =20 Good luck to you Paul. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer To: Sanet Date: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:28 PM Subject: 40 acres =20 =20 Hello beth and all, I understand your feelings about your right to choose. However = can you understand that this is nothing but greed involved. You may be = thinking "Wonder what he would say if the shoe was on the other foot?" = Well, we are wearing one of those shoes right now. We have land the town = wants to purchase. I don't want to but have not been able to convince my = family otherwise. We could sure use the money. My position is still not = to sell. All laws tend to upset someone but you have to start somewhere = and someone is not going to like it.=20 Thats all for now. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEFF4D.ED70A620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Be advised, in our situation all = concerned are=20 in agreement not to sell.  HOWEVER we live in a town that 50 years = ago was=20 primarily all farms.  It is now primarily all houses.  Guess = there was=20 a bit of selling out!  We are on one of the last acreage's = left.  Why=20 because we've haven't sold out.  A year ago our property was in=20 consideration for a school, emanate domain that would have been.  = The=20 town  made weak noises about purchasing our land this spring, = offered us=20 pennies(well also feel they do not want it for open space but municipal=20 use).  So I get a bit miffed when governments start noising around = our=20 land.  Land I must add is available, open, and a working farm = because of=20 OUR hard work.  We never want to sell, honestly.  However I = said it=20 before we are not in a financial place that we want to or can or even = think its=20 fair to reduce the value of our land because other squandered = theirs.  We=20 are in Massachusetts and they do have and APR program.  We have = been told=20 that there is quite a waiting list and were also told don't rush into = it. =20 This from someone who's farm is in the APR.  They have been having = problems=20 with the "fine print" on the contracts.  I guess it keeps = changing! 
    What would = help keep more=20 farmland open is more help to farmers, not handouts, but stuff like = training,=20 business advice, help in advertising etc. Massachusetts is I think = better than=20 many.  Our land is taxed as a farm (we'd have to pay back taxes if = we sold=20 for big bucks), the Ma. Dept of Food and Ag this summer started a radio = buy=20 local campaign.  They do have training classes and other = stuff. =20
    I honestly believe it isn't always as you said greed = that=20 makes someone sell out, but simply no reason to go one = farming.
    There is a chunk of land near me 60 acres I = think.  It=20 has not only been a farm for 200+ years it has been owned by the same=20 family.  A for sale sign just went up.  It has been zoned = industrial=20 for some time, there are two high tech companies already bordering = it.  One=20 heir is retaining her houselot and a few acres.  The other heirs = live far=20 away and realize as a farm it is unlikely any one will want it.  = They don't=20 wish to farm. Oh and the town hasn't bought it either :).  Of = course the=20 price tag is high (probably too high in the industrial market around = here) over=20 1 or 2 million. 
    Good luck to you Paul.  Beth
     
     
     
     
    -----Original = Message-----
    From:=20 Paul Schmitmeyer <ps@erinet.com>
    To: = Sanet <sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu>
    Date:=20 Tuesday, September 14, 1999 7:28 PM
    Subject: 40=20 acres

    Hello beth and all,
        I understand = your=20 feelings about your right to choose. However can you understand that = this is=20 nothing but greed involved. You may be thinking "Wonder what he = would=20 say if the shoe was on the other foot?" Well, we are wearing = one of=20 those shoes right now. We have land the town wants to purchase. I = don't want=20 to but have not been able to convince my family otherwise. We could = sure use=20 the money. My position is still not to sell. All laws tend to upset = someone=20 but you have to start somewhere and someone is not going to like it. =
    Thats all for now.
    Paul
    ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BEFF4D.ED70A620-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 14:52:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12504 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06945 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:43:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06848 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id MAA19912 (8.9.1/50); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:41:53 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990915124317.0071ca5c@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:43:17 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, citnet-list@igc.org, lmmille3@facstaff.wisc.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: farm rally Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2728 Forwarding a speech made a couple days ago at the Farm Rally --- m3 Farm Rally United States Capitol September 13, 1999 Washington, DC Brother David Andrews, CSC Executive Director The National Catholic Rural Life Conference Thank you for your kind introduction.I am the Executive Director of the National Catholic Rural Life Conference which for 75 years has been at the side of family farmers. I am also the Vice Chair of the Rural Church Ecumenical Network and can tell you from my personal knowledge that the faith community supports the struggle of family farmers today for justice. Our Green Ribbon Campaign has become a national effort by the faith community. The Rural Church Ecumenical Network has said publicly: It is time to speak the truth to power. Lutherans understand that farming is a vocation. Presbyterians have said: We will advocate for the survival of family farmers, ranchers, and rural communities. Other faith groups have agreed as well. The Christian scriptures tell us God created the human being, placed her in the garden --to tend it and to keep it. Furthermore we read: I have freed you from slavery--so you can stand erect. Isaiah says: Woe to you who join field to field and house to house until you remain alone on the land. Our President (of NCRLC) is Bishop Raymond Burke, the son of dairy farmers, Bishop of La Crosse, Wisconsin, said recently: We need to speak the truth about agriculture....It is a way of life, it is stewardship, the respectful care of the land, plants and animals in accord with Gods plan--is best carried out by families.--not by transnational corporations. Our Polish friends here today, facing an onslaught by a huge Pork company, Smithfields, taught a state controlled monopoly that families could not be defeated by collective farms; so too, they can teach monopoly controlled states a lesson too. We support family farms, not collective farms....whether their names be Murphy, Smithy, or IBP. In 1986 our faith community placed white crosses in the ground as a symbol of the foreclosures which were taking place. Today, were wearing green ribbons---to symbolize our hope. We shall overcome. We dont want a politics of compassion or a politics of pity. We want a politics of justice. Not a thousand points of light, but a thousand webs of life....communities, farmers, ranchers, animals, plants, all over America living together in harmony. My faith community--the Roman Catholic Church--has always supported family farms and has condemned the cult of efficiency, the culture of death, structures of sin. Listen to Pope John Paul II: There are many ....large scale structures of sin which deliberately steer the goods of the earth, away from their true purpose, that of serving the good of all, towards private and sterile ends in a process which spreads contageously. Market manipulation, the devastation of the environment, profits for a very few--these are some of the fruits of the structures of sin. I invite all of you to spread the word about the Green Ribbon Campaign--be a sign of hope, Check NCRLC.com for more information. I announce a National Period of Prayer, Reflection and Action on behalf of family farms, ranchers, rural communities, a healthy environment--from World Food Day (October 16) to Thanksgiving (November 25) Bring a farmer to the pulpit, have a special day of prayer, have a night of reflection with a pot-luck for groups of neighbors. We can help give you some ideas. +Stop Merger Mania: including that of Cargil and Continental Grain...I call for each state Attorney General to object to the approval by the Justice Department of this merger. I support Senator Wellstones call for a moratorium. +Congress needs to give early emergency support, dont dilly dally on the backs of our farm families +Food is to important to subject it to the volatility of the market...get rid of Freedom to Fail! Remember these principles: *The economy is for the person, the person is not for the economy. The human being is created in the image of God, not of a slave or a thing. *In Gods plan....farming is a stewardship, not cartel control. *Justice and the Common Good, not private greed or government negligence --are fundamental moral principles for American agriculture. *The Web of Life is one---humans are to be responsible stewards of creation, not predatory megamachines which devastate nature and dehumanize people. In 1890, Pope Leo XIII condemned Those accursed financiers, whose home is where profit is. (Rerum Novarum) Dont let them take your homes. Dont let them take your land. Don't let them take your soul. Keep hope alive. Wear a green ribbon--support family farms. Be a sign of hope. Be hopeful. Keep hope alive. God bless you all, we shall overcome. Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 15:36:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13422 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24344 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:33:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA24310 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:33:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.58] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id fa247057 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:30:46 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01beffa8$dd5cfd00$3a9fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "Jim Worstell" To: "sanet" Subject: Fw: MCA-TEAM> Marketing and Risk Strategies Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:20:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2729 If someone from Pennsylvania Sustainable Agriculture Association reads this and is knowledgeable about ag marketing alternatives in PA, could they place contact Ms. Richwine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Carol L. Richwine To: mca-team@reeusda.gov ; Multiple recipients of List Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 12:27 PM Subject: MCA-TEAM> Marketing and Risk Strategies >Good Afternoon, > >I visited your website and am very interested in having this program occur >on a local level for Adams County, PA. I coordinate a young farmers' >association and our October topic of education is marketing and hedging >strategies. I would be grateful for any information or contact people in >my area. > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 16:10:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14039 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28650 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:53:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.rodaleinst.org (mailhost.rodaleinst.org [205.147.214.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28632 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ldrink.ns.fast.net ([205.147.214.76]) by mailhost.rodaleinst.org (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA24290 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:45:27 -0400 Message-ID: <37DFF36F.516@Rodaleinst.org> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:28:47 -0400 From: ldrink@rodaleinst.org (Laurie Drinkwater) Reply-To: ldrink@rodaleinst.org Organization: Rodale Institute X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Reply to Avery Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2730 FYI. I was asked to post this letter which appeared in the Wall Street Journal in reply to Dennis Avery's last piece. August 16, 1999 Mr. Ned Crabb Editorial Editor The Wall Street Journal Dear Mr. Crabb: Regarding the August 12th column 'Why Greens Should Love Pesticides' by Dennis T. Avery, director of the Center for Global Food Issues for the Hudson Institute: It is very sad that Mr. Avery persists in portraying organic food production as a return to agricultural systems that do not utilize any of the scientific advances of the last 50 years and produce poor yields. The challenges of agricultural production are, in fact, far more complex than Mr. Avery suggests in his black and white statements about yields, wildlands and cancer. Based on scientific research at The Rodale Institute, we can discount Mr. Avery's suggestion that organic agriculture is "low yielding, traditional agriculture." In fact, conventional and organic farming both rely on technology advances and sophisticated knowledge of crop requirements. The primary difference is that organic agriculture, far more than industrially based conventional agriculture, attempts to understand and manage biological processes in order to optimize yields while reducing environmental impacts. Organic management depends more on applied ecology and less on applied chemistry than does conventional agriculture. Research at The Rodale Institute and land grant universities, comparing conventional and organic crop production, has shown that organic systems can produce yields that are similar to the same crop under conventional management. Just as Mr. Avery's remarks about yields are erroneous, so too is his view of industrial agriculture as an environmentally benign world-saving enterprise. Unfortunately, the "wildlands" have been damaged by the industrial agriculture that is purported to protect them. Extensive scientific literature demonstrates without question that there are numerous unexpected problems resulting from the widespread use of agricultural chemicals. In many cases, the direct effects on human health are not fully understood until the chemical has already been in use for decades. This is partly because the effects of toxins on animals, particularly long-lived animals such as humans, are often not visible immediately and may only be evident in the next generation. The carcinogenic effects of DES on the daughters of mothers who took the drug twenty years beforehand are case in point. The future of agricultural production is complex, but what is clear is that food production is a crucial issue for us all to consider. At present, very little research has focused on the development of organic crop production techniques and therefore, if the world stopped using all pesticides and synthetic fertilizers tomorrow, yields would indeed suffer. However, rather than decry the organic system, our universal goal should be to increase research into environmentally sound production systems without resorting to an increase in pesticide use, in order to ensure access to healthy food for everyone, while protecting our natural resources. Sincerely, Laurie E. Drinkwater, Ph.D. Director, US Regenerative Agriculture Resource Center ***************************** Laurie E. Drinkwater, Ph.D. Director, US RARC Rodale Institute 611 Siegfriedale Road Kutztown, PA 19530 voice: 610-683-1437 FAX: 610-683-8548 ldrink@rodaleinst.org ***************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 17:40:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16257 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02506 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:36:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02499 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 129.2.68.82 (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA19055; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DFCAB9.2D17@wam.umd.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:36:10 +0000 From: Valerie Berton Organization: SARE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: aadeyemi@nal.usda.gov, "Lindstrom, Thor" Subject: SARE annual highlights available on-line Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2731 Sanet: SARE's eight-page annual report, the 1999 SARE Project Highlights, is available on-line at www.sare.org under the "publications" link. We encourage you to distribute the Highlights to farmers, ranchers, agricultural educators and others who may be interested in profitable alternatives to conventional farming systems. The publication outlines 12 SARE projects from Connecticut to California that focus on ways to cut production costs or add value to agricultural products -- resulting in greater profits for producers. USDA's Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program has spent the last 12 years funding projects that seek alternatives to boost profits, improve natural reosurces and enhance communities. For a print copy, contact Abiola Adeyemi at aadeyemi@nal.usda.gov Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 18:10:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16934 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11266 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:10:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11160 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19127 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 21:09:10 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-48.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.220) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 21:09:10 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990915170007.00968cc0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:07:17 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: 40 acres Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2732 Today's Baltimore Sun has an interesting feature on a fruit farm, in the family since 1951, that is being sold to one of the area's biggest builders. The farmers' points are very much the same as those Beth has made here. What is sometimes overlooked in the desire to preserve farmland is that, for many farmers, the land is the only retirement plan. Taking the value of the land away from people who have struggled for years in a high-risk, low-return business seems unfair to the extreme. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 18:12:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16975 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18071 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:21:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18059 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id QAA59106 (8.9.1/50); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:20:43 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990915162226.0071bd30@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:22:26 -0500 To: ecomda@danenet.wicip.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, citnet-list@igc.org From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Lawns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2733 FYI - m3 >This story is so true, I thought I should share it... Susan Mudd > >"Winterize your lawn," the big sign outside the garden store >commanded. I've fed it, watered it, mowed it, raked it and watched a >lot of it die anyway. Now I'm supposed to winterize it? I hope >it's too late. Grass lawns have to be the stupidest thing we've >come up with outside of thong swimsuits! We constantly battle >dandelions, Queen Anne's lace, thistle, violets, chicory and clover >that thrive naturally, so we can grow grass that must be nursed >through an annual four-step chemical dependency. > >Imagine the conversation The Creator might have with St. Francis >about this: > >"Frank you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is >going on down there? What happened to the >dandelions, violets, thistle and stuff I started eons ago? I had a >perfect, no-maintenance garden plan. Those plants grow in any type >of soil, withstand drought and multiply with abandon. The nectar >from the long-lasting blossoms attracted butterflies, honey bees and >flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by >now. But all I see are these green rectangles." > >"It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites. They >started calling your flowers 'weeds' and went to great extent to >kill them and replace them with grass." > >"Grass? But it's so boring. It's not colorful. It doesn't attract >butterflies, birds and bees, only grubs and sod worms. It's >temperamental with temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want >all that grass growing there?" > >"Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it >green. They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning >any other plant that crops up in the lawn." > >"The spring rains and cool weather probably make grass grow really >fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy." > >"Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it - >sometimes twice a week." > >"They cut it? Do they then bale it like hay?" > >"Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags." > >"They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?" > >"No, sir. Just the opposite. They pay to throw it away." > >"Now let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will >grow. And when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it >away?" > >"Yes, sir." > >"These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back >on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and >saves them a lot of work." > >"You aren't going believe this Lord. When the grass stops growing >so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so they >can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it." > >"What nonsense! At least they kept some of the trees. That was a >sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow >leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In >the autumn they fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to >keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. Plus, >as they rot, the leaves form compost to enhance the soil. It's a >natural circle of life." > >"You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new >circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles >and have them hauled away." > >"No! What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the >winter and keep the soil moist and loose?" > >"After throwing away your leaves, they go out and buy something they >call mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the >leaves." > >"And where do they get this mulch?" > >"They cut down trees and grind them up." > >"Enough! I don't want to think about this anymore. Saint >Catherine, you're in charge of the arts. What movie have you >scheduled for us tonight?" > >"Dumb and Dumber, Lord. It's a real stupid movie about..." > >"Never mind I think I just heard the whole story." > > > > Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 20:39:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19995 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17992 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:32:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA17945 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 29443 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1999 23:31:29 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-48.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.220) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 23:31:29 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990915192549.00980b00@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:29:40 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Re: 40 acres In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990915170007.00968cc0@nb.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2734 I amend myself. >Today's Baltimore Sun has an interesting feature on a fruit farm, in the >family since 1951, that is being sold to one of the area's biggest builders. Since 1851, of course. Even in today's fast-paced world, history takes longer than that. Cass Peterson cpete@nb.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 15 23:07:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22962 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22548 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:16:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22448 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA11960; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:14:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-35.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.35) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011287; Wed Sep 15 21:12:04 1999 Message-ID: <004101beffe8$fb242c60$23f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Cass Peterson" Subject: Re: 40 acres Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:12:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2735 . Cass wrote: >What is sometimes overlooked in the desire to preserve farmland is that, >for many farmers, the land is the only retirement plan. Taking the value of >the land away from people who have struggled for years in a high-risk, >low-return business seems unfair to the extreme. >This sums it up well. We talk on this list about small farmers getting poor treatment at the hands of Monsanto, factory animal farms etc, Well "expecting" farmers to "save" the world from themselves by donating their open space to the cause, a cause I might add most farmers have championed alone is as Cass said unfair. I think if society as a whole thinks that farm land needs preserving then society as a whole should chip in. Development rights type programs seem to be a way. Society chips in buys the dev. rights from farmers. The farmer continues to farm. The farmer may sell the farm at a farm price (remember farmer has been paid the difference due to the developement rights purchase) some other young enthusiastic farmer can afford the land and continue to farm. (Many farms would probably stay farms but a new owner can't afford it). Seems fair. Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 08:17:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29151 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05375 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:50:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05354 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01764 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.199]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA34580 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002201bf0033$92b794a0$c77a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: 40 Acres Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:06:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF0012.0AAA2F80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2736 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF0012.0AAA2F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi again Beth, Pardon my arogance in assuming that everyones situation is the = same. Sometimes we believe that it is the same all over the world as it = is where we live ourselves. Sometimes it is not greed for selling = although looking from the outside it always appears that way. As with my = own operation, it will be very tempting to "sell out" that other farm = that is close to town. I didn't know that you would have to pay back = taxes for a different tax assesment. That doesn't sound legal to me. = Logic tells me that as long as the farm was farmed as a farm it should = be taxed as such. Not that the legal system was ever built on logic. Good Luck, Paul ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF0012.0AAA2F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi again Beth,
         Pardon my = arogance in=20 assuming that everyones situation is the same. Sometimes we believe that = it is=20 the same all over the world as it is where we live ourselves. = Sometimes it is not greed for selling although = looking from=20 the outside it always appears that way. As with my own operation, it = will be=20 very tempting to "sell out" that other farm that is close to = town. I=20 didn't know that you would have to pay back taxes for a different tax = assesment.=20 That doesn't sound legal to me. Logic tells me that as long as the farm = was=20 farmed as a farm it should be taxed as such. Not that the legal system = was ever=20 built on logic.
         Good = Luck,
     
    Paul
    ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF0012.0AAA2F80-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 08:56:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29497 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22256 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:39:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22242 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02342 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:38:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer ([207.90.122.199]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA45762 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005b01bf003a$58d1a260$c77a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Freedom to milk; LIAR Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:55:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF0018.CECE39A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2737 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF0018.CECE39A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bullshit !!!! Sorry bout that but the ignorance of the do good'ers appalls me. I = am a dairy farmer so the subject is very close to me. 1. The "milk tax" has very seldom cost the tax payers a dime because the = milk program runs on its own money.=20 Yes there are price supports that are in place but they have not = been used in years and only when they do they are only a floor price to = help farmers through the low price swings. The program actually helps = the consumer by keeping as many dairy farmers producing milk as = possible. 2. The "Federal Orders" was cut from 33 or so (not sure on that number) = to 11 via appeal.=20 3. The price differential will be eliminated. This is a good thing. The = way it was only made it possible for farmers to dairy where it wouldn't = otherwise be feasible. "Constant" artificial supplementation of any = price is not good. You will have to wait to see the net results of the freedom to farm act = for years to come. Farmers are being drove off their farms in swarms. = Unfare trade policies are mostly to blame. Someone led you astray on this one guys. Thanks for letting me vent.=20 Paul ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF0018.CECE39A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Bullshit !!!!
        Sorry bout that but the ignorance = of the do=20 good'ers appalls me. I am a dairy farmer so the subject is very close to = me.
     
    1. The "milk tax" has very seldom cost the = tax=20 payers a dime because the milk program runs on its own money. =
     
        Yes there are price supports that = are in=20 place but they have not been used in years and only when they do they = are only a=20 floor price to help farmers through the low price swings. The program = actually=20 helps the consumer by keeping as many dairy farmers producing milk as=20 possible.
     
     
    2. The "Federal Orders" was cut from 33 or = so (not=20 sure on that number) to 11 via appeal.
     
    3. The price differential will be eliminated. This = is a good=20 thing. The way it was only made it possible for farmers to dairy where = it=20 wouldn't otherwise be feasible. "Constant" artificial = supplementation=20 of any price is not good.
     
    You will have to wait to see the net results of the = freedom to=20 farm act for years to come. Farmers are being drove off their farms in = swarms.=20 Unfare trade policies are mostly to blame.
     
    Someone led you astray on this one=20 guys.
     
    Thanks for letting me vent.
    Paul
    ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF0018.CECE39A0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 10:34:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01062 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:34:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29139 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:48:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.rodaleinst.org (mailhost.rodaleinst.org [205.147.214.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29131 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coshin.rodaleinst.org ([205.147.214.45]) by mailhost.rodaleinst.org (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA25179 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:40:27 -0400 Received: by coshin.rodaleinst.org with Microsoft Mail id <01BF0020.191C45E0@coshin.rodaleinst.org>; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:47:24 -0400 Message-ID: <01BF0020.191C45E0@coshin.rodaleinst.org> From: lweber@rodaleinst.org (Leon Weber) To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: organic seed treatment Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:47:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id IAA29132 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2738 A researcher in Kenya requested information on organic seed treatment, such as the use of oils or other approved materials. Any pointers to good information resources would be appreciated. Leon To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 13:10:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03739 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13441 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:55:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (coopext.cahe.wsu.edu [134.121.1.21]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13417 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Bob.cahe.wsu.edu (cahefr90042.cahe.wsu.edu [199.237.90.42]) by coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA24872 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:53:57 -0700 Message-ID: <01BF0021.034900E0.amcguire@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu> From: Andy McGuire Reply-To: "amcguire@wsu.edu" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Kelp and Chromium Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:53:54 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2739 Some new scientific discoveries that made me wonder. >From an AP article: Researchers at Texas Tech have discovered that cattle that are fed kelp gain more weight, are more resistant to disease, and are more likely to be of a higher grade when butchered. The article states that the researchers "discovered" the benefits of seaweed by accident. It seems they overheard other researchers who were noticing differences in turf grass on golf courses that had been sprayed with a kelp solution. They wondered if it would work with cattle, and BING they had a discovery. I am not positive, but I think that organic farmers have been using kelp in similar ways for years. Maybe the next big discovery will be that feeding kelp to chickens (as Joel Salatin has been for years) is also beneficial. Just think of all the possible scientific discoveries we could have by looking at organic farming practices and then putting the science stamp of approval on those practices. However, it was noted that "Ranchers seem skeptical," but would try it if it were available on the market. Who knows, it could end up in feedlot bunks across the country. Reminds me of a quote of Deepak Chopra: 'Science is always behind. In the beginning scientists say, "This guy's a fraud," but then their second reaction is that maybe he or she has something to say. Their third reaction is that they do have something to say but that we don't buy all of it. Their fourth reaction is that it was their idea in the first place. Then it becomes mainstream thinking, and then finally it's scientific dogma. Because science is a dogma like anything else. It can't be divorced from the content of the cultural world view. What science is very useful for is to document something that we already know." On this same line, ARS researchers have given us another reason to give up Wonder bread. They have found that Chromium deficiency, common in industrialized nations, can lead to middle-age diabetes. Whole grains, they say, are a good source of chromium. That's all. Andy McGuire Agricultural Systems Educator Washington State University Cooperative Extension PO Box 37, Courthouse Ephrata WA 98823 509-754-2011, Ext. 413 Fax: 509-754-0163 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 15:00:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06593 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18408 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:37:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA18385 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32077 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 17:35:08 -0000 Received: from cabbage-a-07.warfordsburg.nb.net (HELO cass) (209.161.71.179) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 17:35:08 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990916130941.009935c0@nb.net> X-Sender: cpete@nb.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:33:18 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Cass Peterson Subject: Farm Interns and Migrant Workers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2740 Saneteers: Many small-scale farms, especially organic ones and even more especially those growing vegetable and fruit crops, use summer apprentices or interns as part or all of their outside labor force. The interns, typically college students or new grads, work and learn on the farm in return for housing (usually rustic) and a stipend (usually low). More often than not, it's a satisfactory arrangement for both grower and intern. We've hosted more than 30 summer interns at our farm, some of whom returned for a second and even a third year. But I often wondered what would happen if someone decided that our summer interns had to be managed like migrant farmworkers. I knew that the housing wouldn't pass muster (heck, my own house wouldn't pass muster!). Last year, good friends of mine in Maryland found out what would happen. As a result, Martha Daughdrill and Paul Benton of Newburg Vegetable Farm in Newburg, MD, aren't farming anymore. They've written about the experience for Growing for Market, a newsletter for market gardeners published by Fairplain Publications in Lawrence, KS. Lynn Byczynski, editor and publisher, has given me permission to post their article on my farm's Web site. It's at . Cass Peterson Flickerville Mountain Farm & Groundhog Ranch Specialty Produce and Flowers ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Nothing is easy. The best is worth the effort. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ www.flickerville.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 16:01:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07772 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09342 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:47:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09326 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ruth-goldstein (ws1.vancomm.com [209.8.22.66]) by mail.his.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18294 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:42:23 -0400 Message-ID: <01BF0051.B03E7F20.rgoldstein@communitymediadc.org> From: Ruth Goldstein Reply-To: "rgoldstein@communitymediadc.org" To: "'sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Food Systems in MD, PA, DE, VA Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:42:22 -0400 Organization: Community Media X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2741 I am looking for compiled information on food produced, processed, and distributed in the Chesapeake Bay region, including MD, PA, DE,and VA. I am looking for : how many acres or tons or gallons of vegetables, corn, milk, beef, chickens etc are produced in these states; where this food goes; how much is available to consumers in the same region. Does any one have any leads, reports, or contacts on this type of information? Thanks. Ruth Goldstein ************************************************************************ ****** Ruth Goldstein Chesapeake Campaign Coordinator Community Media 1019 19th Street, NW Suite 1200 Washington DC 20036 (202) 331-0771(Ph) (202) 331-9420 (F) rgoldstein@communitymediadc.org "Promoting Sustainable Food Systems in the Chesapeake Bay Region" ************************************************************************ ********* To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 16:29:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08731 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:29:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14453 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:15:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ultra3-4.rz.Uni-Hohenheim.DE (ultra3-4.rz.uni-hohenheim.de [144.41.4.28]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14438 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:15:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 410b-pc173 ([144.41.164.173]) by ultra3-4.rz.Uni-Hohenheim.DE (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA09456 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:14:25 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <199909161914.VAA09456@ultra3-4.rz.Uni-Hohenheim.DE> From: "Matthias Stolze" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:16:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Organic Farming in Europe ONLINE X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA14441 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2742 The new series 'Organic Farming in Europe: Economics and Policy' is online now. You are welcome to visit us at http://www.uni-hohenheim.de/~i410a/ofeurope/ The new homepage of 'Organic Farming in Europe: Economics and Policy' informs you about all current and forthcoming volumes of the series. With our new online ordering system, you can order every book of the series directly and easily. Currently, following volumes are available: Volume 1: Lampkin, N., C. Foster, S. Padel and P. Midmore: The policy and regulatory environment for organic farming in Europe. ISBN 3-933403-00-6, 20 Euro Volume 2: Lampkin, N., C. Foster and S. Padel: The policy and regulatory environment for organic farming in Europe: Country reports. ISBN 3-933403-01-4, 22 Euro. Volume 3: Foster, C. and N. Lampkin: European organic production statistics, 1993 - 1996. ISBN 3-933403-02-2, 12 Euro Volume 4: Zanoli, R. and D. Gambelli: Output and public expenditure implications of the development of organic farming in Europe. ISBN 3-933403-03-0, 18 Euro See you at 'Organic Farming in Europe ONLINE' Matthias Stolze ---------------------------- Organic Farming in Europe: Economics and Policy Universitt Hohenheim Institut 410A D-70593 Stuttgart Germany phone: +49 (0)711 459-2543 fax: +49 (0)711 459-2555 internet: http://www.uni-hohenheim.de/~i410a/ofeurope/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 20:20:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13069 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17102 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:52:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17085 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA27168; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:50:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-243.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.243) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027145; Thu Sep 16 17:49:38 1999 Message-ID: <01c701bf0095$e3ac24e0$23f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Cass Peterson" Subject: Re: Farm Interns and Migrant Workers Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:50:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2743 Bureaucracy at its finest. Does anyone know if others states would be this strict/weird? We aspire someday to have interns. For all the reasons one gets interns, work of course, but opportunity to teach, youthful enthusiasm, and fun. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Cass Peterson To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thursday, September 16, 1999 2:59 PM Subject: Farm Interns and Migrant Workers >Saneteers: > >Many small-scale farms, especially organic ones and even more especially >those growing vegetable and fruit crops, use summer apprentices or interns >as part or all of their outside labor force. The interns, typically college >students or new grads, work and learn on the farm in return for housing >(usually rustic) and a stipend (usually low). > >More often than not, it's a satisfactory arrangement for both grower and >intern. We've hosted more than 30 summer interns at our farm, some of whom >returned for a second and even a third year. But I often wondered what >would happen if someone decided that our summer interns had to be managed >like migrant farmworkers. I knew that the housing wouldn't pass muster >(heck, my own house wouldn't pass muster!). > >Last year, good friends of mine in Maryland found out what would happen. As >a result, Martha Daughdrill and Paul Benton of Newburg Vegetable Farm in >Newburg, MD, aren't farming anymore. They've written about the experience >for Growing for Market, a newsletter for market gardeners published by >Fairplain Publications in Lawrence, KS. > >Lynn Byczynski, editor and publisher, has given me permission to post their >article on my farm's Web site. It's at . > >Cass Peterson >Flickerville Mountain Farm & Groundhog Ranch >Specialty Produce and Flowers >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Nothing is easy. The best is worth the effort. >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >www.flickerville.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 20:25:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13167 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06742 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:31:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA06728 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990916003051.10044.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.83.184] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:30:51 PDT Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:30:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: different ways of knowing To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2744 Good Evening SANETeers, I am passing along a request for assistance. A professor at the U. of Wisconsin--Madison who is teaching a food systems course which incorporates service learning and ethics for the common good asked me to help him obtain information on "women's ways of knowing." The students will be undergraduates. Specifically he is looking for recommendations of women writers on agriculture and community building. If you have ideas, email him directly at campbell@aae.wisc.edu Thanks, Kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 20:29:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13204 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17234 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:53:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17172 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA27197; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:50:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-243.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.243) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027188; Thu Sep 16 17:50:23 1999 Message-ID: <01cc01bf0095$fe619b80$23f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Subject: Re: Food Systems in MD, PA, DE, VA Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:51:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2745 Check and see if their Dept of Food and Ag. have web pages. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Ruth Goldstein To: 'sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu' Date: Thursday, September 16, 1999 3:58 PM Subject: Food Systems in MD, PA, DE, VA > > >I am looking for compiled information on food produced, processed, and >distributed in the Chesapeake Bay region, including MD, PA, DE,and VA. > >I am looking for : how many acres or tons or gallons of vegetables, corn, >milk, beef, chickens etc are produced in these states; where this food >goes; how much is available to consumers in the same region. Does any one >have any leads, reports, or contacts on this type of information? Thanks. > Ruth Goldstein > >************************************************************************ >****** >Ruth Goldstein >Chesapeake Campaign Coordinator >Community Media >1019 19th Street, NW Suite 1200 >Washington DC 20036 >(202) 331-0771(Ph) >(202) 331-9420 (F) >rgoldstein@communitymediadc.org > >"Promoting Sustainable Food Systems in the Chesapeake Bay Region" >************************************************************************ >********* > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 16 20:32:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13441 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24430 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:30:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24230 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.134]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA21062; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:23:52 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990916172205.0073f544@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:22:05 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: IFOAM statement at Maastricht Cc: naos@agron.iastate.edu, ITCALUMET@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA24378 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2746 POSITION DOCUMENT ON ORGANIC AGRICULTURE from IFOAM for the FAO conference "Cultivating our Future" 12th - 17th of September 1999 in Maastricht IFOAM, the world wide umbrella organisation of the organic agriculture movement with 740 member organisations in 103 countries has official consultative status with the UN/CSD as well as with FAO. IFOAM actively promotes organic agriculture systems at the international level, e.g. at the FAO/SARD den Bosch Conference in 1991, the UNCED conference in 1992 with its subsequent CSD meetings and in the context of the Codex Alimentarius Commission guidelines for organic agriculture. Sustainable agriculture? - Commitment and progress is lacking The growing ecological and socio-economic crisis of agriculture continues to result in the marginalisation of farmers world wide, but mainly in Third-World countries at an increasingly alarming rate. This state of affairs is caused mainly by the ever quickening impetus of globalisation, its attendant hi-tech industrialisation processes and reconfiguration of powerful market forces. The actions taken by international organisations and governments to remedy the situation often remain too rhetorical, meagre and fragmented. The commitment to sustainable agriculture made at the Earth Summit still lacks more concrete movements towards implementation on all public sector levels. Often old and non-sustainable concepts of agriculture development have just been renamed or get simply "green washed". The world will grow organically Organic agriculture is experiencing rapid world wide growth through the creative energy of thousands of grass root organisations, farmers and traders. In some countries we also see astonishing support from the public sector and governments. A lot can be learnt from countries like Finland, Sweden, Switzerland and Austria, where organic agriculture has already a 6 to 10% share in total farming and farmland. Many good examples also exist in developing countries. For example in Uganda thousands of farmers practise organic agriculture especially for cotton production. Ten thousands of "campesinos" in Mexico have sound incomes today and good perspectives for the future because they grow organic products such as coffee and sell it in the fair trade and organic market. In Egypt the best selling herb teas are certified organic and are sold in 9,000 shops and pharmacies. In Asia, countries that have a developed organic agriculture, include among others Japan, India, Sri Lanka and the Philippines. The few examples in the "taking stock" document (case studies 12, 14 and 24) give only a very little glimpse on the contributions of the organic movement to "Sustainable Agriculture and Rural Development" (SARD). All over the world one finds "organic" growth rates in the range of 20 - 30% annually. If this rate of growth continues within a decade a number of countries will have the majority of their land and food markets in organic! PTO MFCAL - Organic agriculture has incorporated the "multifunctional" framework >From its very beginning the organic agriculture movement has been built on what we call "holistic" concepts incorporating the "Multifunctional Character of Agriculture and Land" (MFCAL). These concepts are reflected in IFOAMs membership, which besides organic farmer associations, includes also processor, trade, consumer, environmental and training organisations. The SARD approach aims for sustainability that "concerns land, water, plant and animal genetic resources, is environmentally non-degrading, technically appropriate, economically viable and socially acceptable". Organic agriculture with its holistic principles has a record of consequence and excellence in implementing the SARD aims. In fact, issues such as long-term soil fertility, maximum use and recycling of renewable energy, locally adapted techniques, fair wages, and viability of rural enterprises have always been key elements of organic management. Conclusions and proposals for action Too much confusion has been created by not clearly defining, in operational terms, the concepts of "sustainable" agriculture. The lack of workable indicators is perceived as a major gap, yet sustainability indicators have been developed in physical (organic) and social-economical (fair trade) terms. For over 20 years IFOAM has expertise in organic standard setting (e.g. for production, processing, cotton/fibres) and is now registered by ISO as an international standard setting body. Organic farming, with its ecological standards and quality guarantee system through certification and accreditation, is the most precisely defined and controlled form of agriculture. It's logical, therefore, to conclude "organic agriculture is sustainability put into practise". To give the environmental and social components of the MAFCL framework a real chance, it will be necessary to increase the efforts in introducing environmental and social accounting (based on internalisation of costs). Appropriate incentive programmes for conversion to organic agriculture have to be increased- always based on organic production standards. Given the voluntary character of organic agriculture, its important to stress that ultimate responsibility for setting our ecological and social standards must stay within the private sector. The government's role should concentrate on enforcement mechanisms of these standards. Expanded free trade without organic standards will only accelerate environmental and social "dumping", the mining of soils and the further destruction of whole ecosystems and rural communities. On 29 January 1999 the FAO Committee on Agriculture (COAG) adopted a report, which concluded among others "that many aspects of organic farming were important elements of a system approach to sustainable food production" and recognised "the environmental and potential health benefits of organic agriculture and its contribution of innovative production technologies to other agriculture systems and to the overall goals of sustainability". The fact that COAG supported the proposal "to give the practise associated with organic agriculture a place within sustainable agriculture programmes" and that it endorsed "the development of an organisation-wide and cross -sectoral programme in organic agriculture" provides a good platform for the debates and documents of the upcoming CSD review on agriculture. The organic movement as represented by IFOAM expects FAO and the upcoming CSD session on agriculture next year: *To examine the solution potential of organic agriculture more closely. * To work towards a better understanding of how organic agriculture meets the framework of MFCAL. * To strengthen the links and cooperation between goverments and NGOs from the organic sector on national and international level. * To ensure that the acknowledgement for organic farming made by FAO (COAG and the Council) will be taken to the CSD. September 1999, Tholey-Theley, Germany Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 00:32:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16562 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10329 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:42:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10286 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d51-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.51]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA07770; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:41:16 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Michelle M. Miller" , Subject: RE: Lawns Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:47:57 +1000 Message-ID: <001201bf00bf$6e2475e0$333325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <3.0.2.32.19990915162226.0071bd30@facstaff.wisc.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2747 Nigel Calder, ['Einstein's Universe' 1980] wrote in a book now out of print "Timescale : An Atlas of the Fourth Dimension" in the 1980s that observers from Mars would probably conclude that grasses are the dominant species on this planet, given the slave effort put in to their geographical expansion and tending, their feeding, seed collection, reproduction, etc. Calder presents arguments against the greenhouse effect as caused by human activity in a recent paper, abstract at http://www.microtech.com.au/daly/calder/calder.htm Entertaining such views seems sensible to me, given my tendency to doubt gross popular wisdom. Calder is not arguing a case against energy conservation, conservation of non-renewable resources. We just have to do the right things for the right reasons. I suspect that part of the forcefulness of the argument for human command of greenhouse is its seductive suggestion that we can control climate if we 'obey'... from which folks of various persuasion can get a thrill. And, getting back to the subject, the grass-slavery of suburban society seems to me one of the most pervasive demands for social conformity and control of 'nature'. Leave the grass long, and the leaves where they fall, as I do, and see the beady eyes directed at you, from the gardens of the disciplined. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 04:12:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA18540 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA15131 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 03:26:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15107 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 03:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FI700BW20MKP0@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:43:29 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Re: different ways of knowing In-reply-to: <19990916003051.10044.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> To: SANET-mg Cc: campbell@aae.wisc.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" References: <19990916003051.10044.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2748 Howdy, all-- Kate wrote: >I am passing along a request for assistance. A professor at the >U. of Wisconsin--Madison who is teaching a food systems course >which incorporates service learning and ethics for the common >good asked me to help him obtain information on "women's ways of >knowing." The students will be undergraduates. > >Specifically he is looking for recommendations of women writers >on agriculture and community building. If you have ideas, email >him directly at campbell@aae.wisc.edu Gerry, I'm also posting this to SANET since I missed my last Friday's URL Hunt and Post Session thanks to the return of Darth Cheezer from a trip to Washington state, where his motorcycle broke down just outside the Hanford Nuclear Reservation and marooned him for many days. ;^] My two ducats worth: if you want to foster discusion/learning about women's ways of knowing, ask the women in the class. Let the students do the lit review/searches and build the syllabus. Y'all can learn together as ya go. Medium and message. Make the practice the theory, and vice versa. This isn't the sort of thing that lends itself well to the Pre-Course Creation of the Authoritative Syllabus. Which is pretty much the antithesis of what you're trying to incorporate, if you catch my drift. :^) As for women writers on ag and community building, there's been a mess of this on SANET, in the past 7 years. Go to the archives at http://www.sare.org and start leafing thru and see what the women here have had to say. There was a wonderful discussion of gender in agriculture...hm, I can't quite remember when, but I do remember someone accused me of being--hold your breath, you'll need it to gasp with--a FEMINIST. '^D Search also for the many discussions of the sociology of science, the epistemology of agriculture, religion and spirituality's relation to "objective" knowledge, and related issues. Search on those keywords. For instance, Vandana Shiva on women as seed breeders and the multinational Seed State's threat to this knowledge base http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/26-html/0198.html Andy Clark and Jane Gates's fwd of an item on "lost crops of Africa" http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/15-html/0032.html Kathy Lawrence on the role of women in ag http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/4-html/0297.html Gillian Drake's thread on women's contributions to ag starting at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/7-html/0127.html Various discussions of ecofeminism, including this one starting with Jessica Laub's answer to a question: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/5-html/0072.html Betty Gras's, Marcie Rose's, Rich Molini's and others' discussion of women, feminism, food, and work, including these: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/22-html/0398.html http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/22-html/0389.html http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/22-html/0393.html http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/22-html/0391.html http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail/html-home/22-html/0395.html I've got a transcript of a panel from the 1997 Upper Midwest Organic Farming Conference: "Women as Activists in Rural Communities." Speakers were Sr. Miriam Brown, of the Churches Center for Land and People; Diane Kaufmann of Sundance Farms; and Jane Hawley Stevens of Nature's Acres herbals. I was trying to turn this into the first CIAS /Issues Paper/ prior to moving to SF...and it got way back-burnered, thanks to the fact that four hours a day is a lot less than 10 or 11. But these three women talked about the personal and social challenges of taking a role as activists in rural communities, and how their socialization as women at first impaired but then liberated their involvement as activists. As for other resources on the sociology of knowledge with a gender perspective: PUBLICATIONS /Women's Ways of Knowing/, Mary Field Belenky, ed., Harper Collins 1997. It's based on interviews with women, and discusses in pretty good detail an epistemology of women's ways of knowing. If I'm not mistaken this was an interview-based expansion on an earlier work by the same authors and editors, /Knowledge, Difference, and Power: Women's Ways of Knowing/, which I seem to remember reading when it was new...in about 1986. It made a lot of men in academe really really angry. It still does, but people have since then learned to suppress their opinions and project blame for their cowardice onto liberals ("PC"). :^) I still find Carolyn Merchant's /The Death of Nature: Women, Ecology, and the Scientific Revolution/ (1980...was it Harper?) a mind-blower, and I've read the thing at least 40 times. She outlines the gendered mythos of Cartesian rationalism, which otherized women and women's ways of knowing...at the same time it was otherizing the earth. She traces the environmental/ecological crisis to this alienation. Anything by Merchant since then on ecofeminism could be useful...she often places her observations on women's ways of thinking within the context of environmentalism and environmental ethics. This is appropriate, since women's knowledge is distinguished by its awareness of context. Evelyn Fox Keller's /Reflections on Gender and Science/ is out of print, but you should be able to turn up a copy at Avol's or McDermott's (Lisa and Pat McDermott could find you a copy, I'm sure--they've been helpful to me over the years in locating OOP works on these topics). But this was one of the seedbed works on the topic. No discussion of women's ways of knowing is complete without Keller's fabulous biography of Barbara McClintock: /A Feeling for the Organism/. I think it came out in '93--just after I started at CIAS. Don't know the publisher. But the discussion of McClintock's gift of intuition as both an extraordinary scientific gift...and the thing that got her blackballed in academe...is outstanding. It's worth the price of the book for the cover photo of the elder McClintock and an ear of her beloved corn. ANYTHING by Karen Warren at Macalester; my goodness, but she does rock, and you should consider having her come in as a guest lecturer/discussant. /Ecofeminism: Women, Culture, Nature/ (IU Press, 1997) is a tour de force. She is a stunning philosopher, and a wonderful writer. I remember reading an essay in the early 90s on "old wives' tales" by Linda Alcoff at Syracuse; I don't remember where it was published, but it was a wonderful discussion of the construction of women's ways of knowing/communicating as inferior. The demonization of women's ways of knowing as healers was succinctly summarized in Barbara Ehrenreich's and Deirdre English's /Witches, Midwives, and Nurses: A History of Women Healers/, a 1973 pamphlet that's surely out of print, but I'll bet the women's studies collection at Memorial Library has it; it's a must-read, IMO, for your topic, and another seedbed work. Helen Longino's /Science as Social Knowledge/ (Princeton...early 90s, I think '91?) takes perspectives from Michel Foucault, Donna Haraway, and Jurgen Habermas, and offers a stunning critique of the notion of "objective" data and interpretation. See Vandana Shiva's statement on "Monocultures, Monopolies, Myths, and Masculinization of Agriculture" at the International Conference on Women in Agriculture, 1998: http://oneworld.org/guides/biotech/Vandana.htm She could not attend the conference, but this statement was circulated there. POSSIBLE CASE STUDIES A fabulous case study for women's knowing--and the costs of knowing what women know, in historical context--is Sor Juana Inez de la Cruz. Stephanie Merrim has a new work out about women's writing and knowledge in the 17th century, with Sor Juana Inez as a lens. I first learned about her by reading Eduardo Galeano's /Memoria del Fuego/ trilogy, the last volume of which appeared in 1984. I don't know the title of Merrim's work...but I know it's very new. Gerry, check Room of One's Own. Actually, Gerry, ask for some resources there. Another good case study is Hildegard of Bingen, the 12th century churchwoman from the Rhine. Bear and Co. in Santa Fe was the first house to translate her works into English in the early 80s. She had long been dismissed as a mystic (just as Rachel Carson was once branded a "druid priestess"--apparently there was a time when that was considered an insult). But now it's possible to see her thinking and work as major miracles--that they even managed to exist within the framework of a very patriarchal church structure. Of course the Inquisition put an end to all that (ref. Carolyn Merchant). PEOPLE At UW-Madison, check in with Linda Gordon in the history dept. (L&S) and Mariamne Whatley (education and C&I). Judy Leavitt at Madison...she's an historian of medicine and if I'm not mistaken lives in Steve S's neighborhood. :^) Janice Bogstad at UW-Eau Claire teaches a course on women's studies research techniques, including women's ways of learning; I met her I believe it was at the UW-System women's conference...some years ago... bogstajm@uwec.edu Meenakshi Gigi Durham, in the journalism department at UT-Austin, studies women's and girls' ways of knowing, using media, and constructing narratives. gdurham@utc.cc.utexas.edu ORGANIZATIONS The Society for the History of Technology has long had a stream of folks interested in this issue. Gerry, I don't have any contacts there anymore, but Judy Leavitt might. I can't remember who forwarded me this URL from the National Society for Experiential Education: http://www.nsee.org/found.htm But there is a lot of overlap between the mainstream criticisms of experiential ed and of women's ways of knowing. What was intriguing to me about this: the notion that authority-based and experiential learning are viewed by some as binary, and opposed, states...just as gender is. ASSORTED BIBLIOGRAPHIES An amigo at one of the two-year UW campuses recently sent me this URL: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/feminism/epi.html It's a bibliography on feminist epistemology. I can't remember who sent me this URL, a bibliography on ways of knowing: http://www.stark.kent.edu/LIBRARY/NEW/WAYSBIB.htm I'd better stop now. My brain hurts. :^) Hope this is of some help to you. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm a problem solver. --Xena, warrior princess To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 10:02:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22379 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01492 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:21:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01469 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:21:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:23:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.156] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A023E52A008A; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:20:35 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:17:35 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: Lawns Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2749 On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:47:57 +1000, Argall Family wrote: >And, getting back to the subject, the grass-slavery of suburban society >seems to me one of the most pervasive demands for social conformity and >control of 'nature'. Leave the grass long, and the leaves where they fall, >as I do, and see the beady eyes directed at you, from the gardens of the >disciplined. A geographer friend of mine at the University of Calgary postulates that in rural areas, the size of a lawn is inversely proportional to the amount of time its owners have lived in the area .... (-: To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 10:05:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22461 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01050 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:19:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01040 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:20:57 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.156] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AF88E309008A; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:18:00 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:15:00 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: different ways of knowing Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2750 On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:43:29 -0700, Misha wrote: >Another good case study is Hildegard of Bingen, the 12th century >churchwoman from the Rhine. Bear and Co. in Santa Fe was the first >house to translate her works into English in the early 80s. She had >long been dismissed as a mystic Hildegard was also the composer of some interesting (and somewhat significant) music, including (unless you want to go back to the Greek dramatists) what is arguably the first proto-opera in the western repertoire. Some of her work has appeared on disc in the last few years, and if you like Mediaeval music (as I do) it is certainly worth a listen. In working as a philosopher/mystic --- poet --- composer, she presaged the Renaissance in many ways. Now, if she'd only published a treatise on agricultural matters we could spend a lot more time discussing her work on this list --- but it was several hundred years before anyone came up with anything to improve on the classic Roman agricultural writers. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 10:52:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23211 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18549 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:06:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18524 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26906>; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:15:29 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Argall Family" cc: "Michelle M. Miller" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Sep17.091529cdt.26906@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:04:37 -0500 Subject: RE: Lawns- THE VIEW FROM OUTER SPACE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2751 You guys are way off base! Any alien observers of earth, having noticed that when a Canine & a Homo Sapiens go for a walk, the Homo Sapiens collects the droppings, would have drawn the obvious conclusion that Canines are the dominant life form on Terra! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 11:34:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24714 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01808 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:36:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA01726 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:22:11 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:31:09 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, danamex@mail.internet.com.mx Cc: naos@agron.iastate.edu, ITCALUMET@aol.com Subject: IFOAM statement at Maastricht -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2752 snip: It's logical, therefore, to conclude "organic agriculture is Sustainability put into practice". Having become quite immune to IFOAM's pompous and ill founded statements I find that I am surprisingly livid at the contemplation of this particular rendition. Organiculture, as I learned it, holds the same potential today that it has for the past seventy five years. As a SOIL based system of agroecosystem management it offers the future possibility of long-term Sustainability. To project that potential on to the current practice of organic agriculture and to make such pronouncements as the above insures that the "Organic Movement" will find no place in the leadership of competent agriculture in the next century. Best, Ted Rogers, Biologist USDA-Office of Pest Management Policy To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 12:09:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26249 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14231 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:26:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f318.hotmail.com [207.82.250.238]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14141 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 63654 invoked by uid 0); 17 Sep 1999 15:24:54 -0000 Message-ID: <19990917152454.63653.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.32.118 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:24:53 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.32.118] From: "J. S." To: TROGERS@ars.usda.gov, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, danamex@mail.internet.com.mx Cc: naos@agron.iastate.edu, ITCALUMET@aol.com Subject: Re: IFOAM statement at Maastricht -Reply Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:24:53 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2753 Well put. It is statements like these from IFOAM that not only turn off the rest of the world but prevent the rest of us from making real progress at all levels. Jane >From: Ted Rogers >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, danamex@mail.internet.com.mx >CC: naos@agron.iastate.edu, ITCALUMET@aol.com >Subject: IFOAM statement at Maastricht -Reply >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:31:09 -0600 > >snip: It's logical, therefore, to conclude >"organic agriculture is Sustainability put into practice". > >Having become quite immune to IFOAM's pompous and ill founded >statements I find that I am surprisingly livid at the contemplation of this >particular rendition. > >Organiculture, as I learned it, holds the same potential today that it has >for the past seventy five years. As a SOIL based system of >agroecosystem management it offers the future possibility of long-term >Sustainability. To project that potential on to the current practice of >organic agriculture and to make such pronouncements as the above >insures that the "Organic Movement" will find no place in the leadership >of competent agriculture in the next century. > >Best, > >Ted Rogers, Biologist >USDA-Office of Pest Management Policy > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 12:09:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26268 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12805 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:24:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12792 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:26:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.165] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id ACF61D97028A; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:23:34 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:20:36 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: THE VIEW FROM OUTER SPACE Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2754 On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:04:37 -0500, Pat Elazar wrote: >You guys are way off base! Any alien observers of earth, having noticed that >when a Canine & a Homo Sapiens go for a walk, the Homo Sapiens collects the >droppings, would have drawn the obvious conclusion that Canines are the dominant >life form on Terra! On a more serious note, even from a very, Very, VERY long way away (many llight years beyond the front wave of our post 1920 electromagnetic emissions), an intelligent, obervant, technical civilisation would know that there is life on Earth because of the high-methane distortion in our spectrographic profile. They wouldn't know whether it was from tepid tundra or burping bovines, but they'd know there was life of some sort here. Once our electromagnetic emissions hit them, however, they'd rapidly conclude that there was no *intelligent* life in the region. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 12:53:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27427 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:53:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26758 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:54:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26747 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.202] (term6-5.vta.west.net [205.254.241.197]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F023924BC1; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 2 (High) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:52:35 -0800 To: foodsafe@nal.usda.gov, ifstnet@onelist.com, foodserv@list.msu.edu, food-law@tc.umn.edu, food-for-thought@mailbase.ac.uk, FSNET-L@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA, infoterra@cedar.univie.ac.at, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, AGRISYNERGY@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU, HEALTHE@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, Activist_List@listbot.com, rachel@rachel.org From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Fwd from BSE list: blood test in live sheep, elk Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2755 Foreward from the BSE list: This looks to be a major advance. The full text will be of great interest. tom Use of capillary electrophoresis and fluorescent labeled peptides to detect the abnormal prion protein in the blood of animals that are infected with a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy. Schmerr MJ mschmerr@nadc.ars.usda.gov, Jenny AL, Bulgin MS, Miller JM, Hamir AN, Cutlip RC, Goodwin KR J Chromatogr A 1999 Aug 20;853(1-2):207-14 National Animal Disease Center, MWA, ARS, US Department of Agriculture, Ames, IA 50010, USA. Transmissible spongiform encephalopathies in humans and in animals are fatal neuro-degenerative diseases with long incubation times. The putative cause of these diseases is a normal host protein, the prion protein, that becomes altered. This abnormal prion protein is found mostly in the brains of infected individuals in later stages of the disease, but also can be found in lymphoid and other tissues in lower amounts. In order to eradicate this disease in animals, it is important to develop a system that can concentrate the abnormal prion protein and an assay that is very sensitive. The sensitivity that can be achieved with capillary electrophoresis makes it possible to detect the abnormal protein in blood. A peptide from the carboxyl terminal region, amino acid positions 218-232, was labeled at the amino terminus with fluorescein during the synthesis of the peptide. Antibodies that have been produced to this peptide were affinity purified and used in a capillary electrophoresis immunoassay. The amount of fluorescein labeled peptide in the capillary was 50 amol. Blood was obtained from normal sheep and elk, from sheep infected with scrapie and elk infected with chronic wasting disease. Buffy coats and plasma were prepared by a conventional method. After treatment with proteinase K, which destroys the normal protein but not the altered one, the blood fractions were extracted and tested in the capillary electrophoresis immunoassay for the abnormal prion protein. The abnormal prion protein was detected in fractions from blood from infected animals but not from normal animals. This assay makes a pre-clinical assay possible for these diseases and could be adapted to test for the abnormal prion protein in process materials that are used for manufacture of pharmaceuticals and products for human consumption. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 12:54:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27435 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27422 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:57:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from acme.sb.west.net (acme.sb.west.net [205.254.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27408 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [205.254.241.202] (term5-27.vta.west.net [205.254.241.155]) by acme.sb.west.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6FA6C24B5D; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 2 (High) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:55:03 -0800 To: foodsafe@nal.usda.gov, ifstnet@onelist.com, foodserv@list.msu.edu, food-law@tc.umn.edu, food-for-thought@mailbase.ac.uk, FSNET-L@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA, infoterra@cedar.univie.ac.at, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, AGRISYNERGY@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU, HEALTHE@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, Activist_List@listbot.com, rachel@rachel.org From: colibri@west.net (Beth von Gunten) Subject: Fwd from BSE list: blood test in live sheep, elk Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2756 Foreward from the BSE list: This looks to be a major advance. The full text will be of great interest. tom Use of capillary electrophoresis and fluorescent labeled peptides to detect the abnormal prion protein in the blood of animals that are infected with a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy. Schmerr MJ mschmerr@nadc.ars.usda.gov, Jenny AL, Bulgin MS, Miller JM, Hamir AN, Cutlip RC, Goodwin KR J Chromatogr A 1999 Aug 20;853(1-2):207-14 National Animal Disease Center, MWA, ARS, US Department of Agriculture, Ames, IA 50010, USA. Transmissible spongiform encephalopathies in humans and in animals are fatal neuro-degenerative diseases with long incubation times. The putative cause of these diseases is a normal host protein, the prion protein, that becomes altered. This abnormal prion protein is found mostly in the brains of infected individuals in later stages of the disease, but also can be found in lymphoid and other tissues in lower amounts. In order to eradicate this disease in animals, it is important to develop a system that can concentrate the abnormal prion protein and an assay that is very sensitive. The sensitivity that can be achieved with capillary electrophoresis makes it possible to detect the abnormal protein in blood. A peptide from the carboxyl terminal region, amino acid positions 218-232, was labeled at the amino terminus with fluorescein during the synthesis of the peptide. Antibodies that have been produced to this peptide were affinity purified and used in a capillary electrophoresis immunoassay. The amount of fluorescein labeled peptide in the capillary was 50 amol. Blood was obtained from normal sheep and elk, from sheep infected with scrapie and elk infected with chronic wasting disease. Buffy coats and plasma were prepared by a conventional method. After treatment with proteinase K, which destroys the normal protein but not the altered one, the blood fractions were extracted and tested in the capillary electrophoresis immunoassay for the abnormal prion protein. The abnormal prion protein was detected in fractions from blood from infected animals but not from normal animals. This assay makes a pre-clinical assay possible for these diseases and could be adapted to test for the abnormal prion protein in process materials that are used for manufacture of pharmaceuticals and products for human consumption. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 13:13:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27920 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28849 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:04:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28808 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.131]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA21811; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:57:54 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990917105848.00710974@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:58:48 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: IFOAM; Organics and competent leadership Cc: Ted Rogers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA28842 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2757 Dear Mr Rogers, This is a spiteful and venomous comment and I wonder at its motivation. It does not contribute to the rational evaulation of organic agriculture, the most significant worldwide attempt on the part farmers to actually practice an alternative "sustainable" agriculture. IFOAM has, for many years, received the disdain of American politicians, academics and even many famers. It seems to represent a threat to some US interests. This is unfortunate since IFOAM, more than any other organization, as achieved an international forum for open discussion among organic farmers and researchers. It has created, through a process of democratic concensus and long before there were any "national organic standards", the only world standards for organic agriculture and has received ISO recognition as a reference. This is a significant achievement for organic agriculture. IFOAM is made up of humans and therefore is not perfect. But Americans who wish to advance the practice of organic agriculture and its influence in world development and agricultural policies would do well to support IFOAM's efforts. I might point out that organic agriculture is the only farming system in the world that has written standards and an inspection and certification system in place to guarantee that those standards are met. It is for this reason that organic food is receiving the increasing approval and confidence of consumers throughout the world, growing at the pace of 20-30% per year and IFOAM's document states. IFOAM standards have played a key role in this process and in harmonizing standards between countries. This is compentent leadership in sustainable agriculture--both on the part of IFOAM and of organic farmers--far more so that anything USDA has given us. Indeed the current efforts by government and corporate scientists to discredit organics is an indication of its successful ascent in the favor of consumers. Organic agriculture was around long before the term "sustainability" was coined by the politicians, so it is not quite accurate to say that it is sustainability put in to practice. As practiced, it is far from ideal, as we have often discussed on this list. But it is the only system being practiced by large numbers of famers today that has even approached ecological, economic and social sanity. It is the only system that offers a concrete alternative to farmers, including an established, more direct market. It is far more than just a "soil based system of agroecosystem managment". It is a practical philosophy, not only of farming, but of community, stewardship and relationship with the land. The experience of thousands of organic farmers, processors, merchants, consumer coops and scientists belies the validity of your outburst. Organic agriculture is already providing leadership in sustainable agriculture and no serious consideration of our agroecological future can fail to take this experience into account, whatever deficiencies it may have. Personally, I found the IFOAM statement pertinent and inspiring which is why I wanted to share it with SANET. At 08:31 AM 17/09/99 -0600, you wrote: >snip: It's logical, therefore, to conclude >"organic agriculture is Sustainability put into practice". > >Having become quite immune to IFOAM's pompous and ill founded >statements I find that I am surprisingly livid at the contemplation of this >particular rendition. > >Organiculture, as I learned it, holds the same potential today that it has >for the past seventy five years. As a SOIL based system of >agroecosystem management it offers the future possibility of long-term >Sustainability. To project that potential on to the current practice of >organic agriculture and to make such pronouncements as the above >insures that the "Organic Movement" will find no place in the leadership >of competent agriculture in the next century. > >Best, > >Ted Rogers, Biologist >USDA-Office of Pest Management Policy > > Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 14:58:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00954 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02718 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:33:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu [157.182.140.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA02683 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pss1096.caf.wvu.edu by chestnut.telcom.wvu.edu (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0:JLF-19970113) id NAA12717; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:29:34 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990917132829.006a05a8@wvu.edu> X-Sender: jlozier@wvu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:28:29 -0400 To: "J. S." , TROGERS@ars.usda.gov, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, danamex@mail.internet.com.mx From: John Lozier Subject: Re: IFOAM statement at Maastricht -Reply Cc: naos@agron.iastate.edu, ITCALUMET@aol.com In-Reply-To: <19990917152454.63653.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2758 This statement seems a bit of a stretch. At 08:24 AM 9/17/99 PDT, J. S. wrote: It is statements like these from IFOAM that not only turn off the >rest of the world but prevent the rest of us from making real progress at >all levels. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 14:59:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00971 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:59:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08223 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:57:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08085 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FI700I33TPU2Z@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:19:58 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Re: Fwd from BSE list: blood test in live sheep, elk In-reply-to: To: SANET-mg Cc: foodsafe@nal.usda.gov, ifstnet@onelist.com, foodserv@list.msu.edu, food-law@tc.umn.edu, food-for-thought@mailbase.ac.uk, FSNET-L@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA, infoterra@cedar.univie.ac.at, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, AGRISYNERGY@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU, HEALTHE@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, Activist_List@listbot.com, rachel@rachel.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" References: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2759 Howdy, all-- Tom wrote: >Foreward from the BSE list: > >This looks to be a major advance. The full text will be of great interest. > >tom > > >Use of capillary electrophoresis and fluorescent labeled peptides to detect >the abnormal prion protein in the blood of animals that are infected with a >transmissible spongiform encephalopathy. > >Schmerr MJ mschmerr@nadc.ars.usda.gov, Jenny AL, Bulgin MS, Miller JM, >Hamir AN, Cutlip RC, Goodwin KR >J Chromatogr A 1999 Aug 20;853(1-2):207-14 >National Animal Disease Center, MWA, ARS, US Department of Agriculture, >Ames, IA 50010, USA. Tom, what do you see as the Major Advance? Do you think that the technical ability to identify these prions with this methodology will result in an actual reduction in exposure to them? I'm asking a technology-assessment-and-equity question and am truly interested in your thoughts. I'll listen, then say more. Just curious. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before. --Steven Wright To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 15:02:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01063 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17931 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:13:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17888 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:13:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-4.ofrf.org (ofrf4.tychonet.com [205.179.36.4]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id LAA04294 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:12:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from research@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990917105841.00b24e80@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: ofrf@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:09:52 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: Family Farmers--Will There Be a Next Generation? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2760 Marian, I have heard this same question many times and I find it very interesting because I often see the other side of coin. I am 23, grew up in a large suburb and I am dying to farm. I live in Santa Cruz and I know of so many people my age who come from all different backgrounds (often non-farming) who are so eager to farm and learn all they can. A lot of these people are also struggling with the lack of available and affordable farmland. I know that the situation here in California is very different than in other regions of the country. But urban sprawl and a lack of family connections is making it very difficult for this young generation of farmers to get a foothold. Unless you have family financial support, or as Ann Clark described, have already worked for awhile in a different business and saved your money, you will be hard pressed to start a farm around here. I have heard of organizations trying to connect young potential farmers to older farmers who are retiring and have no family to pass the farm on to. I think this is a wonderful way of dealing with these issues and would like to see more of this happening. Rebecca King Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 ph: (831) 426-6606 fax: (831) 426-6670 www.ofrf.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 16:49:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05028 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23647 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:54:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f128.hotmail.com [216.32.181.128]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23633 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 27652 invoked by uid 0); 17 Sep 1999 19:52:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990917195239.27651.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 24.95.173.142 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [24.95.173.142] From: "Lester Loam" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Floyd effects? Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:52:39 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2761 Following hurricane Floyd the past few days, my first thoughts were of course were with the people who were in its path, hoping that no one got killed and that the damage wasn't too bad. My second thoughts were about all those hog lagoons in North Carolina and all those chicken farms on the Delmarva Peninsula. What does 20 inches of rain do to them? Did they hold up? Or did they fail, making life worse for the people in the area. I got the news release from the USGS below. They note that water quality problems are common after storms like this. Lester News Release U.S. Geological Survey U.S. Department of the Interior Release Date: September 17, 1999 Contacts: Carolyn DiDonato (703) 648-4463 email:cdidonat@usgs.gov Donna Runkle (703) 648-4469 email:dlrunkle@usgs.gov As Hurricane Floyd Moves Up the Atlantic Coast . . . . USGS Scientists Tackle the Science of the Storm As Hurricane Floyd continues to bring heavy rain and dangerous storm surges to the Atlantic Coast, USGS scientists are tackling the challenges that a storm of this intensity brings to coastal resources - from flood-swollen rivers, to saturated hillsides, to vulnerable barrier islands, to altered wildlife habitats. Flooding The USGS network of streamflow gaging stations located in every state continuously provide information on the rising floodwaters from the rain associated with Hurricane Floyd. Information transmitted via satellite is available to federal, state and local emergency-management officials and to the public at http://water.usgs.gov/realtime.html This real-time information is indispensable for emergency preparedness and the rapid communication of flood information to National Weather Service river forecast centers, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Although many USGS offices along Floyd's path were closed on Thursday as a safeguard for their employees, essential staff were in the field monitoring the flood conditions, making flood measurements and flagging high-water marks. As of Thursday evening, September 16, at 5:00 PM: * In North Carolina the Tar and Neuse Rivers were above flood stage and continue to rise. USGS crews have been hampered in reaching stream measurement sites due to flooded roads, toppled trees and power lines, and road blocks as utility crews work to restore power. * The most severe flooding in South Carolina occurred in the Waccamaw River basin. In the area near Longs, South Carolina, the Waccamaw River may crest near or exceed the historical high streamflow based on 49 years of continuous streamflow data. Western portions of both North and South Carolina continue to experience severe drought conditions. * Flooding in Maryland and Delaware was occurring in the Patuxent River watershed and on most of the Delmarva Peninsula. * Meherrin, Nottoway, and Blackwater Rivers in southeastern Virginia were above flood stage. * In New Jersey, flooding was occurring along the Rahway River near Springfield and the Raritan River at Bound Brook. Water-quality Monitoring As Hurricane Floyd continues along the coast, the immediate water-quality concern is the material washed into streams by surface runoff from heavy rains. USGS teams will be in the field for several days collecting stream water-quality samples. The samples will be analyzed for concentrations of bacteria, nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus), pesticides, and sediment. The possible presence of fecal coliform and E.coli bacteria in drinking-water supplies is a primary human health concern during and after floods. An excess of nutrients can result in algal blooms, including Pfiesteria. Sediment in the water column can significantly reduce the amount of light that reaches submerged aquatic vegetation relied on by many organisms. Large rainfall events associated with tropical storms have caused extended periods of poor water quality along the coast. The USGS has documented extremely low dissolved-oxygen concentrations for several weeks after heavy amounts of decaying organic matter (limbs, leaves, grasses, animal waste) flowed from swamps and tidal marshes into rivers after hurricanes Hugo, Bonnie, and Fran. This past spring, the USGS began a two-year study at the Cumberland Island National Seashore, near the Georgia/Florida line, to study water-quality conditions and aquatic communities. Hurricanes and tropical storms in the area may provide a glimpse of how coastal and climatic processes affect water-quality conditions and aquatic communities on barrier islands. Coastal Erosion and Storm Surge USGS geologists, in cooperation with National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, will monitor changes along the coastline as they relate to storm surge and wave action. This will be measured from the air using a Scanning Radar Altimeter. By relating storm surge and wave heights to coastal changes, future hurricane impacts can be predicted more accurately. Mapping hurricane storm surge data is critical for understanding the volume of water and amount of sediment that inundates the coast during a hurricane. Coastal surveys are scheduled to be flown on Saturday, September 18 to assess coastal changes resulting from Hurricane Floyd. Biological work Hurricanes play a dynamic role in shaping coastal systems because of their ability to massively change wildlife habitats of barrier islands, coastal marshes, and forests. USGS scientists are gearing up in the wake of Hurricane Floyd to assess damage to wildlife and habitat from Florida to Maine. USGS biologists will use computer models to predict effects on wildlife habitat; remote sensing and geographic information systems will be used to study and monitor wetland responses to hurricanes; and research will be conducted to determine hurricane effects on coastal erosion and wetland forests. While several years of research are needed before fully determining the effects of hurricanes on birds, USGS biologists expect that shorebird migration has been seriously disrupted and that many coastal species may have been pushed to far-inland sites. Sandpipers, plovers, knots, and others may end up feeding and roosting in agricultural fields in eastern Tennessee or Kentucky. The endangered Northeast breeding population of roseate terns may have dodged the hurricane because it is late in the season. Most terns should be well on their way from their summer staging area in Cape Cod, Mass., to northern South America where they spend the winter. USGS biologists will not know the impact on this particular species until next summer, when a census is conducted of the major colonies in New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Maine. Ongoing USGS studies on the effects of deer browsing on vegetation in the flood plain of the Patuxent River in Maryland may have been obscured by the damaging effects of Hurricane Floyd. USGS biologists will evaluate the impacts of Hurricanes Floyd and Dennis on sediment deposition in the Virginia coastal marsh study areas established this spring. Landslides Although Floyd has remained near the coast, past hurricanes that traveled inland to the Appalachian Mountains brought large amounts of rain to steep hillsides and caused landslides. During Hurricane Camille in 1969, for example, intense rainfall triggered debris flows in Nelson County, Virginia causing 150 deaths. In the Blue Ridge Mountains of central Virginia rainfall having an intensity of about two inches per hour and lasting for four hours, or one inch per hour for 10 hours, is likely to trigger debris flows and other types of landslides on steep slopes. As of mid-day on September 16, rainfall amounts received in the mountainous parts of central Virginia have been significantly below these amounts, making the likelihood of landsliding very low. As the nation's largest water, earth and biological science, and civilian mapping agency, the USGS works in cooperation with more than 2,000 organizations across the country to provide reliable, impartial scientific information to resource managers, planners, and other customers. This information is gathered in every state by USGS scientists to minimize the loss of life and property from natural disasters, contribute to the sound conservation and the economic and physical development of the nation's natural resources, and enhance the quality of life by monitoring water, biological, energy, and mineral resources. * * USGS * * * In-depth information about USGS programs may be found on the USGS home page at http://www.usgs.gov . To receive the latest USGS news releases automatically by e-mail, send a request to listproc@listserver.usgs.gov. Specify the listserver(s) of interest from the following names: water-pr; geologic-pr; hazards-pr; biological-pr; mapping-pr; products-pr; lecture-pr. In the body of the message write: subscribe (name of listserver) (your name). Example: water-pr joe smith. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 17:50:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06268 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17869 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:12:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f34.hotmail.com [207.82.250.45]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA17856 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12794 invoked by uid 0); 17 Sep 1999 21:11:13 -0000 Message-ID: <19990917211113.12793.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.32.135 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:11:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.32.135] From: "J. S." To: jlozier@wvu.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: IFOAM statement at Maastricht -Reply Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:11:12 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2762 well, i don't really think so. Although people on this list, including myself, are sympathetic to IFOAM and also believe in many of the same principles, we need to think about addressing the rest of the world. and you don't catch flies with vinegar. period. so for IFOAM to say that efforts others have made to be sustainable ( and yes, precision agridulture and other advances ARE better than what most people do now even if they are not ideal) are bogus does not really help the situation. It makes farmers mad, it makes me mad because it is a non problem-solving approach and in fact it is of the same hard line no deal stance perspective that so many people take towards implementing a more ecologically based agriculture, just a stubborn not mind-flexing way of thinking. and i say progress is progress and if we can make more sustainble practices step by step that is better than all or nothing, where saving our natural resources are concerned. Call me a compromiser if you want, but you do not have to compromise your ideals in order to work within a system to improve it. >From: John Lozier >To: "J. S." , TROGERS@ars.usda.gov, >sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, danamex@mail.internet.com.mx >CC: naos@agron.iastate.edu, ITCALUMET@aol.com >Subject: Re: IFOAM statement at Maastricht -Reply >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:28:29 -0400 > >This statement seems a bit of a stretch. > >At 08:24 AM 9/17/99 PDT, J. S. wrote: >It is statements like these from IFOAM that not only turn off the > >rest of the world but prevent the rest of us from making real progress at > >all levels. > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 18:12:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06623 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:12:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15426 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:01:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15409 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03627 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA07768; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm5-11.nidlink.com [216.18.141.18]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA28731; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909172058.NAA28731@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:09:59 -0700 To: , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Biotech and Precautionary Principle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2763 Around the world people, organizations and governments are struggling to develop a widely acceptable framework in which to evaluate agricultural/food system applications of biotechnology. The Precautionary Principle has emerged as one of the most visible alternatives to conventional risk-benefit and cost-benefit based systems. Recent issues of Nature have contained an important exchange of letters highlighting the concerns of some re the Precautionary principle being "anti-science" and the responses of others who feel otherwise. Access much information on the Precautionary principle, including this exchange, on Ag BioTech InfoNet at: http://www.biotech-info.net/policy.html#precautionary The "Precautionary Principle in Action: A Handbook" is particular clear and useful for those who have heard little about the PP. I hope everyone interested in the financial prospects of the life sciences companies that have invested heavily in ag biotechnology took time to download and study the remarkable July 12, 1999 report by Deutsche Bank. As noted in my earlier post, the Bank gave us permission to post the full report in PDF format. I was sure there would be widespread interest in the full report, despite the excerpts that had floated around the Internet over the last 6 weeks. I was right. In the first 4 days after posting, 1,919 copies of the report were downloaded. Five of the ten host-servers visiting Ag BioTech InfoNet most often during those 4 days were housed at ag chemical divisions of life science corporations. Given the growing talk of divesture/mergers of ag chemical divisions across the life sciences industry -- for a provocative account, see the Sept. 17, 1999 issue of Chemical Week -- it is understandable why so many people in ag chemical companies wanted to read for themselves what Deutsche Bank had to say. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 19:59:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08118 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05851 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:14:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05839 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:16:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.182] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AB1E254B0090; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:13:34 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:10:40 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: IFOAM Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2764 On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:11:12 PDT, J. S. wrote: >you don't catch flies with vinegar. period. so for IFOAM to say that >efforts others have made to be sustainable (snip) are bogus does not really help the situation. >>At 08:24 AM 9/17/99 PDT, J. S. wrote: >>It is statements like these from IFOAM that not only turn off the >> >rest of the world but prevent the rest of us from making real progress at >> >all levels. It is difficult for North Americans to comprehend the cultural ethos of IFOAM. I have been trained by IFOAM both to do international inspection work and to serve as an evaluator in the accreditation of certification programs, so I am more than passingly familiar with some aspects of the organisation. It should be noted that the word IFOAM (and most of its European members) use for organic certification is "CONTROL." For me, that sums it up. That IFOAM and other Europeans skillfully use organic regulations as a non-tariff trade barrier is simply icing on their cake. Compare the traffic in *processed* organic foods going into Europe compared to that leaving. Raw materials from North America get in much easier. Vintage mercantilism / colonialism wrought anew within the organic market. Statements such as that at Maasstricht merely reflect deeper attitudes. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 20:23:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08412 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11081 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:38:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11060 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-47ppp33.epix.net [209.74.47.33]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999072601/PL) with ESMTP id TAA14442; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E2D222.EA9EE895@epix.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:43:30 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lester Loam CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Floyd effects? References: <19990917195239.27651.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2765 Sanet, I live in SE PA and our farm received 8.8 inches of rain from Floyd as well as 50 mph winds. I must say that I was proud of the way my permanent cover cropping system held up to the deluge. I spent 1.5 hours yesterday video taping the clean water leaving my fields as well as the "clay soup" that was leaving my "conventional" neighbors fields. I don't have hard data, but the total volume also appeared much less then a similar area of land at my neighbors. Today, I could find no ditches on my 12-17% sloped fields. It's so ironic that in the last 12 days we got over 14 inches of rain- more than all we had since last winter! Now, the next challenge will be to get 20 acres of processing tomatoes harvested next week. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 21:40:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09197 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA12050 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:56:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12041 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:56:46 -0400 (EDT) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7CSKa19727 (306) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:55:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:55:07 EDT Subject: Farm For Sale To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2766 Good friends of mine are selling a farm in Alburg, Vermont, because they are buying a bigger farm. The farm for sale is organic (of course), has 59 acres, dairy barn in use but needs some work, good sized well built house. They would like it to go to a young family that would maintain it as an organic farm. Price is only $105,000. For more information you can e-mail me, Ann Gras at petersfarm@aol.com. Thanks, Ann Gras To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 17 23:10:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11260 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18952 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:42:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18922 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-44.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.188]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA15005; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:35:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199909180235.VAA15005@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Lester Loam" , Subject: Re: Floyd effects? Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:38:17 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2767 I thought exactly the same thing only I wasn't smart enough to keep my mouth (keyboard?) shut over on the National Pork Producers Council's web site. Talking about opening up a can of worms. Oh well, its not like they didn't know I'm no fan of their industrialised agriculture. My guess is we are a couple of days off the news hitting of the lagoon breaks. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp free range hog, chicken, and rabbit farmer ---------- > From: Lester Loam > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Floyd effects? > Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 2:52 PM > > Following hurricane Floyd the past few days, my first thoughts were of > course were with the people who were in its path, hoping that no one got > killed and that the damage wasn't too bad. > > My second thoughts were about all those hog lagoons in North Carolina and > all those chicken farms on the Delmarva Peninsula. What does 20 inches of > rain do to them? Did they hold up? Or did they fail, making life worse for > the people in the area. > > I got the news release from the USGS below. They note that water quality > problems are common after storms like this. > > Lester > > News Release > > > U.S. Geological Survey > U.S. Department of the Interior > > > Release Date: September 17, 1999 > > > Contacts: > Carolyn DiDonato (703) 648-4463 email:cdidonat@usgs.gov > Donna Runkle (703) 648-4469 email:dlrunkle@usgs.gov > > > > As Hurricane Floyd Moves Up the Atlantic Coast . . . . > USGS Scientists Tackle the Science of the Storm > > > As Hurricane Floyd continues to bring heavy rain and dangerous storm surges > to the Atlantic Coast, USGS scientists are tackling the challenges that a > storm of this intensity brings to coastal resources - from flood-swollen > rivers, to saturated hillsides, to vulnerable barrier islands, to altered > wildlife habitats. > > > Flooding > > > The USGS network of streamflow gaging stations located in every state > continuously provide information on the rising floodwaters from the rain > associated with Hurricane Floyd. Information transmitted via satellite is > available to federal, state and local emergency-management officials and to > the public at http://water.usgs.gov/realtime.html This real-time > information > is indispensable for emergency preparedness and the rapid communication of > flood information to National Weather Service river forecast centers, the > U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. > > > Although many USGS offices along Floyd's path were closed on Thursday as a > safeguard for their employees, essential staff were in the field monitoring > the flood conditions, making flood measurements and flagging high-water > marks. > > > As of Thursday evening, September 16, at 5:00 PM: > > > * In North Carolina the Tar and Neuse Rivers were above flood stage > and > continue to rise. USGS crews have been hampered in reaching stream > measurement sites due to flooded roads, toppled trees and power lines, and > road blocks as utility crews work to restore power. > > > * The most severe flooding in South Carolina occurred in the Waccamaw > River > basin. In the area near Longs, South Carolina, the Waccamaw River may > crest near or exceed the historical high streamflow based on 49 years of > continuous streamflow data. Western portions of both North and South > Carolina continue to experience severe drought conditions. > > > * Flooding in Maryland and Delaware was occurring in the Patuxent > River > watershed and on most of the Delmarva Peninsula. > > > * Meherrin, Nottoway, and Blackwater Rivers in southeastern Virginia > were > above flood stage. > > > * In New Jersey, flooding was occurring along the Rahway River near > Springfield and the Raritan River at Bound Brook. > > > Water-quality Monitoring > > > As Hurricane Floyd continues along the coast, the immediate water-quality > concern is the material washed into streams by surface runoff from heavy > rains. USGS teams will be in the field for several days collecting stream > water-quality samples. The samples will be analyzed for concentrations of > bacteria, nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus), pesticides, and sediment. > The possible presence of fecal coliform and E.coli bacteria in > drinking-water supplies is a primary human health concern during and after > floods. An excess of nutrients can result in algal blooms, including > Pfiesteria. Sediment in the water column can significantly reduce the > amount of light that reaches submerged aquatic vegetation relied on by many > organisms. > > > Large rainfall events associated with tropical storms have caused extended > periods of poor water quality along the coast. The USGS has documented > extremely low dissolved-oxygen concentrations for several weeks after heavy > amounts of decaying organic matter (limbs, leaves, grasses, animal waste) > flowed from swamps and tidal marshes into rivers after hurricanes Hugo, > Bonnie, and Fran. > > > This past spring, the USGS began a two-year study at the Cumberland Island > National Seashore, near the Georgia/Florida line, to study water-quality > conditions and aquatic communities. Hurricanes and tropical storms in the > area may provide a glimpse of how coastal and climatic processes affect > water-quality conditions and aquatic communities on barrier islands. > > > Coastal Erosion and Storm Surge > > > USGS geologists, in cooperation with National Aeronautics and Space > Administration and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, > will monitor changes along the coastline as they relate to storm surge and > wave action. This will be measured from the air using a Scanning Radar > Altimeter. By relating storm surge and wave heights to coastal changes, > future hurricane impacts can be predicted more accurately. > > > Mapping hurricane storm surge data is critical for understanding the volume > of water and amount of sediment that inundates the coast during a > hurricane. Coastal surveys are scheduled to be flown on Saturday, > September 18 to assess coastal changes resulting from Hurricane Floyd. > > > Biological work > > > Hurricanes play a dynamic role in shaping coastal systems because of their > ability to massively change wildlife habitats of barrier islands, coastal > marshes, and forests. USGS scientists are gearing up in the wake of > Hurricane Floyd to assess damage to wildlife and habitat from Florida to > Maine. > > > USGS biologists will use computer models to predict effects on wildlife > habitat; remote sensing and geographic information systems will be used to > study and monitor wetland responses to hurricanes; and research will be > conducted to determine hurricane effects on coastal erosion and wetland > forests. > > While several years of research are needed before fully determining the > effects of hurricanes on birds, USGS biologists expect that shorebird > migration has been seriously disrupted and that many coastal species may > have been pushed to far-inland sites. Sandpipers, plovers, knots, and > others may end up feeding and roosting in agricultural fields in eastern > Tennessee or Kentucky. > > > The endangered Northeast breeding population of roseate terns may have > dodged the hurricane because it is late in the season. Most terns should be > well on their way from their summer staging area in Cape Cod, Mass., to > northern South America where they spend the winter. USGS biologists will > not know the impact on this particular species until next summer, when a > census is conducted of the major colonies in New York, Connecticut, > Massachusetts, and Maine. > > Ongoing USGS studies on the effects of deer browsing on vegetation in the > flood plain of the Patuxent River in Maryland may have been obscured by the > damaging effects of Hurricane Floyd. > > > USGS biologists will evaluate the impacts of Hurricanes Floyd and Dennis on > sediment deposition in the Virginia coastal marsh study areas established > this spring. > > > Landslides > > > Although Floyd has remained near the coast, past hurricanes that traveled > inland to the Appalachian Mountains brought large amounts of rain to steep > hillsides and caused landslides. During Hurricane Camille in 1969, for > example, intense rainfall triggered debris flows in Nelson County, Virginia > causing 150 deaths. > > > In the Blue Ridge Mountains of central Virginia rainfall having an > intensity of about two inches per hour and lasting for four hours, or one > inch per hour for 10 hours, is likely to trigger debris flows and other > types of landslides on steep slopes. As of mid-day on September 16, > rainfall amounts received in the mountainous parts of central Virginia have > been significantly below these amounts, making the likelihood of > landsliding very low. > > > As the nation's largest water, earth and biological science, and civilian > mapping agency, the USGS works in cooperation with more than 2,000 > organizations across the country to provide reliable, impartial scientific > information to resource managers, planners, and other customers. This > information is gathered in every state by USGS scientists to minimize the > loss of life and property from natural disasters, contribute to the sound > conservation and the economic and physical development of the nation's > natural resources, and enhance the quality of life by monitoring water, > biological, energy, and mineral resources. > > > * * USGS * * * > > > In-depth information about USGS programs may be found on the USGS home page > at http://www.usgs.gov . To receive the latest USGS news releases > automatically by e-mail, send a request to listproc@listserver.usgs.gov. > Specify the listserver(s) of interest from the following names: water-pr; > geologic-pr; hazards-pr; biological-pr; mapping-pr; products-pr; > lecture-pr. In the body of the message write: subscribe (name of > listserver) (your name). Example: water-pr joe smith. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 18 10:03:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17220 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29063 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:26:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29052 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp109.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.109]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 838526174A for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01c301bf01d9$0ca2f380$6d9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990916172205.0073f544@mail.internet.com.mx> Subject: Re: IFOAM statement at Maastricht Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:23:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2768 this is a Position Document . So u know where we stand. I like IFOAM and always did. I think they will be our safety net to protect us organic growers . I don't count on the USDA for protection as they may be a big part of our problems. We need a world wide umbrella organization that does not bow to what the USDA may end up calling organic. They will help us keep the word organic and protect the word organic from some of the sustainable ag. folks and USDA folks that just don't get it. I am glad to see CCOF and IFOAM join hands . They think a lot as I think and I am glad to have such a powerful friend. I understand way some folks on this list don't not like them but they make no bones about where they stand. and It is not on the fence. hehe GOOD for them and a great statement of Position. I will proudly put their label on my goods. I feel they are Right On the mark. check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html - Subject: IFOAM statement at Maastricht > POSITION DOCUMENT ON ORGANIC AGRICULTURE > from IFOAM for the FAO conference "Cultivating our Future" 12th - 17th of > September 1999 in Maastricht > > IFOAM, the world wide umbrella organisation of the organic agriculture > movement with 740 member organisations in 103 countries has official > consultative status with the UN/CSD as well as with FAO. IFOAM actively > promotes organic agriculture systems at the international level, e.g. at the > FAO/SARD den Bosch Conference in 1991, the UNCED conference in 1992 with > its subsequent CSD meetings and in the context of the Codex Alimentarius > Commission guidelines for organic agriculture. > > Sustainable agriculture? - Commitment and progress is lacking > > The growing ecological and socio-economic crisis of agriculture continues to > result in the marginalisation of farmers world wide, but mainly in > Third-World countries at an increasingly alarming rate. This state of > affairs is caused mainly by the ever quickening impetus of globalisation, > its attendant hi-tech industrialisation processes and reconfiguration of > powerful market forces. The actions taken by international organisations and > governments to remedy the situation often remain too rhetorical, meagre and > fragmented. The commitment to sustainable agriculture made at the Earth > Summit still lacks more concrete movements towards implementation on all > public sector levels. Often old and non-sustainable concepts of agriculture > development have just been renamed or get simply "green washed". > .yada yada yada To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 18 11:28:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17906 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29611 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:50:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29605 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17580 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp67.green.eri.net [207.90.124.131]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA48635 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004001bf01e7$558de920$837c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Floyd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:06:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF01C5.CD5EF240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2769 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF01C5.CD5EF240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Steve, 1st of all, Congradulations on your vidio taping the water run off. = You have confirmed what has been told to me. I am in transition at the = present time and was told similar stories, not sure how true they were. = One of my concerns has always been how I can argue with the no-till guys = and their erosion control, a very big talking point for them and one = that has been hard for me to argue with.=20 Thanks for the info and reasurance. Paul ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF01C5.CD5EF240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hi Steve,
        1st of all, = Congradulations=20 on your vidio taping the water run off. You have confirmed what has been = told to=20 me. I am in transition at the present time and was told similar stories, = not=20 sure how true they were. One of my concerns has always been how I can = argue with=20 the no-till guys and their erosion control, a very big talking point for = them=20 and one that has been hard for me to argue with.
    Thanks for the info and = reasurance.
    Paul
    ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01BF01C5.CD5EF240-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 18 13:24:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19172 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07723 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:49:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07712 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:49:38 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:48:32 -0500 X-ROUTED: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:48:30 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.71] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0b3a133c ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:48:18 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990918113836.00998150@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:38:36 -0500 To: Subject: Re: Floyd effects? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2770 Just thought of a useful application for Genetic Engineering marker genes in pollution monitoring from large confinement operation. Since each corporation supplies the feed to their confinement operations, a marker gene similar to the antibotic marker gene could be added to some component of the feed that would genetically "tag" the manure from the sites under that corporation's control. Since each corporation's feed would have a unique genetic fingerprint, it would be easy to trace the reponsible party by analysis of the polluted water sample. Mike Miller >At 22:35 17-09-99 -0600, you wrote: > >big snip > >> Water-quality Monitoring > >> As Hurricane Floyd continues along the coast, the immediate water-quality >> concern is the material washed into streams by surface runoff from heavy >> rains. USGS teams will be in the field for several days collecting >>stream water-quality samples. The samples will be analyzed for concentrations >>of bacteria, nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus), pesticides, and sediment. >> The possible presence of fecal coliform and E.coli bacteria in >> drinking-water supplies is a primary human health concern during and >>after floods. An excess of nutrients can result in algal blooms, including >> Pfiesteria. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 18 13:24:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19176 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06159 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:43:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06125 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18974 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.49] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na257465 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: <002501bf01f4$9fc689e0$319fc2d1@jvworstell> From: "Jim Worstell" To: "Sanet" References: <005b01bf003a$58d1a260$c77a5acf@oemcomputer> Subject: Multinationals can be forced to change Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:41:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF01CA.B617D520" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Info: Mail gateway to the Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2771 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF01CA.B617D520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Latest news from the BBC on GM foods: McDonalds, Burger King and = Domino's Pizza ban GM ingredients. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_450000/450979.stm Britain's biggest fast-food chains, including McDonald's and Burger = King, say they have removed genetically-modified (GM) ingredients from = their menus in time for the introduction of new labelling laws. Friends = of the Earth surveyed 11 leading chains and found all said they did not = use GM soya or maize.=20 The government has ordered all food containing GM ingredients to be = labelled from Sunday following implementation of a European Union = directive last September.=20 Caterers, shops, food-makers and restaurants must all comply or face = fines.=20 However, FoE highlighted a loophole in the legislation which meant = food outlets could supply meals which contained GM derivatives such as = GM lecithin and GM soya oil without having to tell customers.=20 Two of the companies surveyed - Pret a Manger and Domino's Pizza - = said they had removed GM derivatives while a further six said they were = removing them.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF01CA.B617D520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Latest news from the BBC on GM foods:  = McDonalds, Burger=20 King and Domino's Pizza ban GM ingredients.
     
     
    htt= p://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_450000/450979.stm
    Britain's=20 biggest fast-food chains, including McDonald's and Burger King, say = they have=20 removed genetically-modified (GM) ingredients from their menus in time = for the=20 introduction of new labelling laws. Friends of the Earth surveyed 11 = leading=20 chains and found all said they did not use GM soya or maize.=20

    The government has ordered all food containing GM ingredients to be = labelled from Sunday following implementation of a European Union = directive=20 last September.=20

    Caterers, shops, food-makers and restaurants must all comply or = face fines.=20

    However, FoE highlighted a loophole in the legislation which meant = food=20 outlets could supply meals which contained GM derivatives such as GM = lecithin=20 and GM soya oil without having to tell customers.=20

    Two of the companies surveyed - Pret a Manger and Domino's Pizza - = said=20 they had removed GM derivatives while a further six said they were = removing=20 them.

    ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BF01CA.B617D520-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 18 23:51:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25921 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19787 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:20:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f247.hotmail.com [207.82.251.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA19766 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23832 invoked by uid 0); 19 Sep 1999 03:19:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990919031907.23831.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.153.172.121 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:19:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.153.172.121] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Floyd effects? Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:19:07 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2772 Just thought it was interesting that today NPR did have a spot about the pollution and possible contamination from the Eastern NC hog farms; maybe this will help galvanize anti-confinement sentiment. I guess you can always hope. > > > >> Water-quality Monitoring > > > >> As Hurricane Floyd continues along the coast, the immediate >water-quality > >> concern is the material washed into streams by surface runoff from >heavy > >> rains. USGS teams will be in the field for several days collecting > >>stream water-quality samples. The samples will be analyzed for >concentrations > >>of bacteria, nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus), pesticides, and >sediment. > >> The possible presence of fecal coliform and E.coli bacteria in > >> drinking-water supplies is a primary human health concern during and > >>after floods. An excess of nutrients can result in algal blooms, >including > >> Pfiesteria. > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 19 05:25:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28407 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA17333 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:59:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17311 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 04:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.43.24.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.43.24]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28535; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E1F08F.CD82D2C4@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:41:03 -0700 From: Gylver Wagnon X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "amcguire@wsu.edu" CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: Kelp and Chromium References: <01BF0021.034900E0.amcguire@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2773 Really!!!And here I have been promoting seaweed for so many purposes, INCLUDING animal feed. and I reprinted the book Seaweed in Agriculture and Horticulture by W. Stephenson, and have quoted it online for years---including the data on feeding seaweed to farm animals. Why are these people so fast asleep that they never heard of feeding seaweed to animals? Using it on the farm or in the garden is newer--at least the use of soluble seaweed powder is newer than the age old practice of feeding seaweed to animals--especially by people who live by the seashores. It was the idea of making a soluble powder out of seaweed that was new==and it was started by Maxicrop, the company known worldwide for its superlative product. I can see that this kind of information needs to be on my web site, since apparently there are still people who don't realize seaweed's value. Incidentally, did you know that seaweed foam is the lightest substance made? It floats in the air. I have a tiny sample in my files. Andy McGuire wrote: > Some new scientific discoveries that made me wonder. > > >From an AP article: Researchers at Texas Tech have discovered that cattle > that are fed kelp gain more weight, are more resistant to disease, and are > more likely to be of a higher grade when butchered. The article states > that the researchers "discovered" the benefits of seaweed by accident. It > seems they overheard other researchers who were noticing differences in > turf grass on golf courses that had been sprayed with a kelp solution. > They wondered if it would work with cattle, and BING they had a discovery. > > I am not positive, but I think that organic farmers have been using kelp in > similar ways for years. Maybe the next big discovery will be that feeding > kelp to chickens (as Joel Salatin has been for years) is also beneficial. > Just think of all the possible scientific discoveries we could have by > looking at organic farming practices and then putting the science stamp of > approval on those practices. > > However, it was noted that "Ranchers seem skeptical," but would try it if > it were available on the market. Who knows, it could end up in feedlot > bunks across the country. > > Reminds me of a quote of Deepak Chopra: 'Science is always behind. In the > beginning scientists say, "This guy's a fraud," but then their second > reaction is that maybe he or she has something to say. Their third > reaction is that they do have something to say but that we don't buy all of > it. Their fourth reaction is that it was their idea in the first place. > Then it becomes mainstream thinking, and then finally it's scientific > dogma. Because science is a dogma like anything else. It can't be > divorced from the content of the cultural world view. What science is very > useful for is to document something that we already know." > > On this same line, ARS researchers have given us another reason to give up > Wonder bread. They have found that Chromium deficiency, common in > industrialized nations, can lead to middle-age diabetes. Whole grains, > they say, are a good source of chromium. > > That's all. > > Andy McGuire > Agricultural Systems Educator > Washington State University Cooperative Extension > PO Box 37, Courthouse > Ephrata WA 98823 > 509-754-2011, Ext. 413 > Fax: 509-754-0163 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 19 15:02:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03197 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04548 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:21:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04517 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.46.7.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.46.7]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04429; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E528C0.22254320@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:17:36 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Nigh CC: naos@agron.iastate.edu, SANET Subject: Re: IFOAM; Organics and competent leadership References: <3.0.1.32.19990917110622.00726a90@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3E374572D17E881A7DE433D4" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2774 --------------3E374572D17E881A7DE433D4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think I had better open my mouth this time, since it seems I am the only one still alive in US who really knows the whole history of IFOAM. This is long, but if you want to know the real, inside face of this, here are the facts, and you will never again have an opportunity to know about it. If you really want to know the whole truth, never told anywhere before, here it is. It is a rather long story, but this is the real basis of the whole IFOAM affair. I am the ONLY USA MEMBER of IFOAM who has been a member since the beginning of it--non stop.. It was originally taken over, very competently, by Dr. Hardy Vogtmann, after some young fellow made a mess of it, stole the books of its library, etc etc. What really started it all---and this you can learn from me only, as there is undoubtedly no one else around who knows all the details, is may own lone effort------ so here goes: I had been totally immersed in an effort to help people learn about organic method, way back in the 1960's. I started the organic movement in California, inadvertently, by inventing and teaching the FIRST IN THE WORLD course in organic method, for university degree credit, and transfer degree credit. I started at UC Berkeley at the time of the so-called "Flower Children"--well, I had been pushing organics even earlier around the Bay Area.. But I got the idea of teaching at other campuses, so for 5 yrs I traveled up and down the state, teaching in a different county every day, sometimes 3 classes a day. That is what got the whole uproar going, as the media helped me so very much. One time I managed to be able to speak at the "enemy" campus of UCDavis, only because a grad student designed a debate series there, between the organic side and the "enemy" side--university/chemical company clique. It became famous instantly. He set up the first one, on medical basis. People came from ALL OVER, driving hundreds of miles at furious pace, after working hours, to get to UCDavis campus in time. The auditorium was jammed full. The debate became so uproarious, so venemous from the academic/chemical side, that the UC authorities nearly canceled the whole thing. The 2nd debate was between 2 soils profs at UCD , for the "enemy" side, and Robert Rodale and myself on the organic side. I was astounded that the Soils Profs were both very, very polite, pleasant, and referred to me several times as "our colleague, Dr. Rateaver". It just took the wind out of my sails. I had expected vituperation. The students just made such an uproar, interrupting my speech several times with clapping, stamping feet, yelling. Clearly, the campus was in favor of organics, tho no prof dared to approve my course so I never got to teach there. But Robert Rodale said to me: You had the whole audience in your hand. So he came later to speak to my class, and eventually he offered me the opportunity to teach, nationwide, at the expense of Rodale Press. I could not take advantage of that, as I had an aged mother to take care of, and a teenage son to put thru college. But it was probably a mistake on my part, as Robert Rodale interpreted it as a snub. But he got to know who I was. The importance of all this is: It was while I was in the Bay Area that I got the idea of having a WORLD meeting on organics. So I set up arrangements at the San Francisco Hilton Hotel, and started writing around for companies to take booths. Friends (former students) printed up stationery for me, as a gift: First International Conference on Organic Method for Farm and Garden. I used this stationery to write around to get exhibitors and speakers. The first effort I made to get a speaker was to try to phone Robert Rodale to ask him to speak. For some unknown reason I got some male secretary who snubbed me completely: "Oh yeah, there are other people who want to speak to him too." So I did not get to ask Robert Rodale to be the key speaker. One of my students, knowing of my Hotel arrangements, took it upon himself, officiously, to write to Rodale Press and tell them about the conference I was setting up. The managing editor, Mr. Goldman, whom I had already known by phone and correspondence, phoned me and said, " Jerry Goldstein ( at that time 1 of the 3 owners of Rodale Press) called me to ask what is this? Something as important as this and WE NOT KNOW ABOUT IT? I did not know what to say!!" So I explained that I HAD tried to tell Rodale Press about my conference and invite Robert Rodale to speak, but I had been snubbed by some male secretary. So from then on it seemed Rodale Press was not so friendly to me, although always very polite and helpful and generous with books. . BUT, right after Rodale Press heard that I had set up for an International Meeting, dated for Jan 1-4, 1973, with 72 speakers, they IMMEDIATELY made extremely rapid arrangements in France for THEIR international meeting, to be held 2 months before mine, for Nov 72. They put out a special publication, with a brown paper covering and green printing, to alert everyone to this sudden, newly invented INTERNATIONAL meeting. Well, I did get my meeting done, using every last penny of the only 1-year job payment I had received, so I did not go into debt for it. But when I saw Rodale Press had initiated their own program, to make sure it PREDATED MINE, I could see the handwriting on the wall, and I never again attempted to have an intl meeting on my own. My own effort was not needed, since Europe had , at Rodale initiative, undertaken to do it. So I just immediately offered to be a member, I sent copies of all the books I had published, etc. etc. The young Frenchman who had so suddently been enlisted to run IFOAM was clearly a flop. He absconded with the books I sent for the IFOAM library, and probably with everything else too. I sent a second set. But the saving grace was that somebody smart got Dr. Hardy Vogtmann to take over, and that is exactly what he did. He made IFOAM the worldwide authority it is today. He set up everything marvelously, with typical German competence, and ran it like clockwork. It is thanks to him that IFOAM became so suddenly, with great effort, THE international authority on how to do organic farming. He became the first Ph.D. prof to run a Ph.D.granting department of organics, at the German university--Kassel , at Witzenhausen. I took advantage of his great knowledge and got to know him personally, several times when he was in California, and of course, also at the IFOAM meeting in Montreal. So IFOAM is the intl authority it is today, due toHIS work. Rodale Press I think supported it, or at least paid most of its cost, to start with,but soon dropped out and was never again a prominent name with it. Rodale Press had accomplished its purpose--to make sure it was THEY and not I, who would be known for an international meeting. IFOAM became well known and funds came to it, so it has sailed on ever since. It was one of Dr. Vogymann's students, Bernard Geier, who took over the helm, and Dr. Vogtmann went on to be the German equivalent of the job Glickman has today. Now he has his own "ecofarm" and has Prince Charles as visitor ===everyone knows Prince Charles has his own organic farm. So I pat myself on the back for having BOMBED Rodale Press into sponsoring the beginnings of IFOAM. THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF IFOAM. Rodale Press had the money and pushed their sponsored meeting into existence at once, though they dropped special interest thereafter, and that name eventually became the now internationally known IFOAM. It was only when the corporations started taking an interest in it, after IFOAM became a big thing, that I began to worry about it. I think that was also when Dr. Vogtmann started to wonder about it too. He had had to quit, being totally exhausted [naturally], with all he had to do, running the whole First-in-the-world course with Ph.D. level degrees, and doing the IFOAM too. His health began to go. I felt that as soon as the big money people started to take an interest, after all of us real organic people had done the hard work to get IFOAM afloat internationally, that there would be trouble ahead. One cause for trouble showed up pretty fast. One of the main values of IFOAM is the requirement of decent treatment for workers--"socially just". It did not take long before some company started to protest that clause. Well, I still pay my yearly fee. That amount of money I could always stretch out somehow, but when the corporations began to enter, suddenly the fees became astronomical. I protested, and as a special favor to ME, "because of all you have done for the organic movement", I am allowed to pay half, but it is still a stretch, and there are things about it that worry me, but so far I have stuck to it. If I just can't find that much money in my purse, and still eat at least 1 meal a day, I suppose Mr. Geier would still OK my full membership anyway, just out of pity, and because everyone knows of my so intense interest in organics, and that I have written the one and only text , and a book that turns out to be the most comprehensive in the world on the subject.. But, and here I thank Dr. Nigh for his input, it is certainly NOT THE POSITION OF academia to startt sneering or making cracks about IFOAM. Academia had absolutely nothing to do with any of it, and they can just keep their snooty noses out! Academia, as an institution, is the enemy that fought me when I worked like mad to get organic method installed in the world's educational system , as a valid, degree-worth course. I taught for 5 years, wrote the ONLY TEXT, and was running up and down the state every week, using up 4 cars, driving over half a million miles, and I never got paid enough for even the gas, let alone for my time, effort and knowledge of the field. So, ACADEMIA, SHUT UP!! ===================================================== Ronald Nigh wrote: > Dear Mr Rogers, > This is a spiteful and venomous comment and I wonder at its motivation. It > does not contribute to the rational evaulation of organic agriculture, the > most significant worldwide attempt on the part farmers to actually practice > an alternative "sustainable" agriculture. > > IFOAM has, for many years, received the disdain of American politicians, > academics and even many famers. It seems to represent a threat to some US > interests. This is unfortunate since IFOAM, more than any other > organization, as achieved an international forum for open discussion among > organic farmers and researchers. It has created, through a process of > democratic concensus and long before there were any "national organic > standards", the only world standards for organic agriculture and has > received ISO recognition as a reference. This is a significant achievement > for organic agriculture. IFOAM is made up of humans and therefore is not > perfect. But Americans who wish to advance the practice of organic > agriculture and its influence in world development and agricultural > policies would do well to support IFOAM's efforts. > > I might point out that organic agriculture is the only farming system in > the world that has written standards and an inspection and certification > system in place to guarantee that those standards are met. It is for this > reason that organic food is receiving the increasing approval and > confidence of consumers throughout the world, growing at the pace of 20-30% > per year and IFOAM's document states. IFOAM standards have played a key > role in this process and in harmonizing standards between countries. This > is compentent leadership in sustainable agriculture--both on the part of > IFOAM and of organic farmers--far more so that anything USDA has given us. > > Indeed the current efforts by government and corporate scientists to > discredit organics is an indication of its successful ascent in the favor > of consumers. Organic agriculture was around long before the term > "sustainability" was coined by the politicians, so it is not quite > accurate to say that it is sustainability put in to practice. As > practiced, it is far from ideal, as we have often discussed on this list. > But it is the only system being practiced by large numbers of famers today > that has even approached ecological, economic and social sanity. It is the > only system that offers a concrete alternative to farmers, including an > established, more direct market. It is far more than just a "soil based > system of agroecosystem managment". It is a practical philosophy, not only > of farming, but of community, stewardship and relationship with the land. > The experience of thousands of organic farmers, processors, merchants, > consumer coops and scientists belies the validity of your outburst. Organic > agriculture is already providing leadership in sustainable agriculture and > no serious consideration of our agroecological future can fail to take this > experience into account, whatever deficiencies it may have. > > Personally, I found the IFOAM statement pertinent and inspiring which is > why I wanted to share it with SANET. > > At 08:31 AM 17/09/99 -0600, you wrote: > >snip: It's logical, therefore, to conclude > >"organic agriculture is Sustainability put into practice". > > > >Having become quite immune to IFOAM's pompous and ill founded > >statements I find that I am surprisingly livid at the contemplation of this > >particular rendition. > > > >Organiculture, as I learned it, holds the same potential today that it has > >for the past seventy five years. As a SOIL based system of > >agroecosystem management it offers the future possibility of long-term > >Sustainability. To project that potential on to the current practice of > >organic agriculture and to make such pronouncements as the above > >insures that the "Organic Movement" will find no place in the leadership > >of competent agriculture in the next century. > > > >Best, > > > >Ted Rogers, Biologist > >USDA-Office of Pest Management Policy > > > > > Ronald Nigh > Dana, A.C. > Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas > Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) > danamex@mail.internet.com.mx --------------3E374572D17E881A7DE433D4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I had better open my mouth this time, since it seems I am the only one still alive in US who really knows the whole history of IFOAM.
     
        This is long, but if you want to know the real, inside face of this, here are the facts, and you will never again have an opportunity to know about it.

       If you really want to know the whole truth, never told anywhere before, here it is.
       It is a rather long story, but this is the real basis of the whole IFOAM affair.

    I am the ONLY USA MEMBER of IFOAM who has been a member since the beginning of it--non stop..

       It was originally taken over, very competently, by Dr. Hardy Vogtmann, after some young fellow made a mess of it, stole the books of its library, etc etc.

        What really started it all---and this you can learn from me only, as there is undoubtedly no one else around who knows all the details, is may own lone effort------ so here goes:
     
    I had been totally immersed in an effort to help people learn about organic method, way back in the 1960's.  I started the organic movement in California, inadvertently, by inventing and teaching the FIRST IN THE WORLD course in organic method, for university degree credit, and transfer degree credit.
        I started at UC Berkeley at the time of the so-called "Flower Children"--well, I had been pushing organics even earlier around the Bay Area.. But I got the idea of teaching at other campuses, so for 5 yrs I traveled up and down the state, teaching in a different county every day, sometimes 3 classes a day. That is what got the whole uproar going, as the media helped me so very much.

        One time I managed to be able to speak at the "enemy" campus of UCDavis, only because a grad student designed a debate series there, between the organic side and the   "enemy" side--university/chemical company clique. It became famous instantly.
          He set up the first one, on medical basis. People came from ALL OVER, driving hundreds of miles at furious pace, after working hours, to get to UCDavis campus in time. The auditorium was  jammed full. The debate became so uproarious, so venemous from the academic/chemical side, that the UC authorities nearly canceled the whole thing.
       The 2nd debate was between 2 soils profs at UCD , for the "enemy" side, and Robert Rodale and myself on the organic side. I was astounded that the Soils Profs were both very, very polite, pleasant, and referred to me several times as "our colleague, Dr. Rateaver". It just took the wind out of my sails. I had expected vituperation.
        The students just made such an uproar, interrupting my speech several times with  clapping, stamping feet, yelling. Clearly, the campus was in favor of organics, tho no prof dared to approve my course so I never got to teach there.

    But Robert Rodale said to me: You had the whole audience in your hand. So he came later to speak to my class, and eventually he offered me the opportunity to teach, nationwide, at the expense of Rodale Press.  I could not take advantage of that, as I had an aged mother to take care of, and a teenage son to put thru college. But it was probably a mistake on my part, as Robert Rodale interpreted it as a snub. But he got to know who I was.

    The importance of all this is:
        It was while I was in the Bay Area that I got the idea of having a WORLD meeting on organics. So I set up arrangements at the San Francisco Hilton Hotel, and started writing around for companies to take booths.
        Friends (former students) printed up stationery for me, as a gift: First International Conference on Organic Method for Farm and Garden.
        I used this stationery to write around to get exhibitors and speakers.
        The first effort I made to get a speaker was to try to phone Robert Rodale to ask him to speak. For some unknown reason I got some male secretary who snubbed me completely: "Oh yeah, there are other people who want to speak to him too." So I did not get to ask Robert Rodale to be the key speaker.
     
        One of my students, knowing of my Hotel arrangements, took it upon himself, officiously, to write to Rodale Press and tell them about the conference I was setting up. The managing editor, Mr. Goldman,  whom I had already known by phone and correspondence, phoned me and said, " Jerry Goldstein ( at that time 1 of the 3 owners of Rodale Press) called me to ask what is this? Something as important as this and WE NOT KNOW ABOUT IT?  I did not know what to say!!"
     
     So I explained that I HAD tried to tell Rodale Press about my conference and invite Robert Rodale to speak, but I had been snubbed by some male secretary. So from then on it seemed Rodale Press was not so friendly to me, although  always very polite and helpful and generous with books.
    .
    BUT, right after Rodale Press heard that I had set up for an International Meeting, dated  for Jan 1-4, 1973, with 72 speakers,  they IMMEDIATELY made extremely rapid arrangements in France for  THEIR international meeting, to be held 2 months before mine, for Nov 72. They put out a special publication, with a brown paper covering and green printing, to alert everyone to this sudden, newly invented INTERNATIONAL meeting.
     
    Well, I did get my meeting done, using every last penny of the only 1-year job payment I had received, so I did not go into debt for it.
        But when I saw Rodale Press had initiated their own program, to make sure it PREDATED MINE, I could see the handwriting on the wall, and I never again attempted to have an intl meeting on my own.
        My own effort was not needed, since Europe had , at Rodale initiative, undertaken to do it.

    So I just immediately offered to be a member, I sent copies of all the books I had published, etc. etc. The young Frenchman who had so suddently been enlisted to run IFOAM was clearly a flop. He absconded with the books I sent for the IFOAM library, and probably with everything else too. I sent a second set.

    But the saving grace was that somebody smart got Dr. Hardy Vogtmann to take over, and that is exactly what he did. He made IFOAM the worldwide authority it is today. He set up everything marvelously, with typical German competence, and ran it like clockwork.
         It is thanks to him that IFOAM became so suddenly, with great effort, THE international authority on how to do organic farming. He became the first Ph.D. prof to run a Ph.D.granting department of organics, at the German university--Kassel , at Witzenhausen.
        I took advantage of his great knowledge and got to know him personally, several times when he was in California, and of course, also at the IFOAM meeting in Montreal.

    So IFOAM is the intl authority it is today, due toHIS work. Rodale Press I think supported it, or at least paid most of its cost, to start with,but soon dropped out and was never again a prominent name with it. Rodale Press had accomplished its purpose--to make sure it was THEY and not I, who would be known for an international meeting.  IFOAM became well known and funds came to it, so it has sailed on ever since.

        It was one of Dr. Vogymann's students, Bernard Geier, who took over the helm, and Dr. Vogtmann went on to be the German equivalent of the job Glickman has today. Now he has his own "ecofarm" and has Prince Charles as visitor ===everyone knows Prince Charles has his own organic farm.

    So I pat myself on the back for having BOMBED Rodale Press into sponsoring the beginnings of IFOAM.

           THAT WAS THE BEGINNING OF IFOAM. Rodale Press had the money and pushed their sponsored meeting into existence at once, though they dropped special interest thereafter, and that name eventually became the now internationally known IFOAM.

    It was only when the corporations started taking an interest in it, after IFOAM became a big thing, that I began to worry about it. I think that was also when Dr. Vogtmann started to wonder about it too. He had had to quit, being totally exhausted [naturally], with all he had to do, running the whole First-in-the-world course with Ph.D. level degrees, and doing the IFOAM too. His health began to go.

    I felt that as soon as the big money people started to take an interest, after all of us real organic people had done the hard work to get IFOAM afloat internationally, that there would be trouble ahead.
        One cause for trouble showed up pretty fast. One of the main values of IFOAM is the requirement of decent treatment for workers--"socially just". It  did not take long before some company started to protest that clause.

    Well, I still pay my yearly fee. That amount of money I could always stretch out somehow, but when the corporations began to enter, suddenly the fees became astronomical. I protested, and as a special favor to ME,  "because of all you have done for the organic movement", I am allowed to pay half, but it is still a stretch, and there are things about it that worry me, but so far I have stuck to it.
         If I just can't find that much money in my purse, and still eat at least 1 meal a day, I suppose Mr. Geier would still OK my full membership anyway, just out of pity, and because everyone knows of my so intense interest in organics, and that I have written the one and only text , and a book that turns out to be the most comprehensive in the world on the subject..

    But, and here I thank Dr. Nigh for his input, it is certainly NOT THE POSITION OF academia to startt sneering or making cracks about IFOAM. Academia had absolutely nothing to do with any of it, and they can just keep their snooty noses out!

        Academia, as an institution,  is the enemy that fought me when I worked like mad to get organic method installed in the world's educational system , as a valid, degree-worth course. I taught for 5 years, wrote the ONLY TEXT, and was running up and down the state every week, using up 4 cars, driving over half a million miles, and I never got paid enough for even the gas, let alone for my time, effort and knowledge of the field.

    So, ACADEMIA, SHUT UP!!
    =====================================================
    Ronald Nigh wrote:

    Dear Mr Rogers,
    This is a spiteful and venomous comment and I wonder at its motivation.  It
    does not contribute to the rational evaulation of organic agriculture, the
    most significant worldwide attempt on the part farmers to actually practice
    an alternative "sustainable" agriculture.

    IFOAM has, for many years, received the disdain of American politicians,
    academics and even many famers. It seems to represent a threat to some US
    interests. This is unfortunate since IFOAM, more than any other
    organization, as achieved an international forum for open discussion among
    organic farmers and researchers. It has created, through a process of
    democratic concensus and long before there were any "national organic
    standards",  the only world standards for organic agriculture and has
    received ISO recognition as a reference. This is a significant achievement
    for organic agriculture. IFOAM is made up of humans and therefore is not
    perfect. But Americans who wish to advance the practice of organic
    agriculture and its influence in world development and agricultural
    policies would do well to support IFOAM's efforts.

    I might point out that organic agriculture is the only farming system in
    the world that has written standards and an inspection and certification
    system in place to guarantee that those standards are met.  It is for this
    reason that organic food is receiving the increasing approval and
    confidence of consumers throughout the world, growing at the pace of 20-30%
    per year and IFOAM's document states. IFOAM standards have played a key
    role in this process and in harmonizing standards between countries.  This
    is compentent leadership in sustainable agriculture--both on the part of
    IFOAM and of organic farmers--far more so that anything USDA has given us.

    Indeed the current efforts by government and corporate scientists to
    discredit organics is an indication of its successful ascent in the favor
    of consumers.  Organic agriculture was around long before the term
    "sustainability" was coined by the politicians,  so it is not quite
    accurate to say that it is sustainability put in to practice.  As
    practiced, it is far from ideal, as we have often discussed on this list.
    But it is the only system being practiced by large numbers of famers today
    that has even approached ecological, economic and social sanity. It is the
    only system that offers a concrete alternative to farmers, including an
    established,  more direct market.  It is far more than just a "soil based
    system of agroecosystem managment". It is a practical philosophy, not only
    of farming, but of community, stewardship and relationship with the land.
    The experience of thousands of organic farmers, processors, merchants,
    consumer coops and scientists belies the validity of your outburst. Organic
    agriculture is already providing leadership in sustainable agriculture and
    no serious consideration of our agroecological future can fail to take this
    experience into account, whatever deficiencies it may have.

    Personally, I found the IFOAM statement pertinent and inspiring which is
    why I wanted to share it with SANET.

    At 08:31 AM 17/09/99 -0600, you wrote:
    >snip: It's logical, therefore, to conclude
    >"organic agriculture is Sustainability put into practice".
    >
    >Having become quite immune to IFOAM's pompous and ill founded
    >statements I find that I am surprisingly livid at the contemplation of this
    >particular rendition.
    >
    >Organiculture, as I learned it, holds the same potential today that it has
    >for the past seventy five years.  As a SOIL based system of
    >agroecosystem management it offers the future possibility of long-term
    >Sustainability.  To project that potential on to the current practice of
    >organic agriculture and to make such pronouncements as the above
    >insures that the "Organic Movement" will find no place in the leadership
    >of competent agriculture in the next century.
    >
    >Best,
    >
    >Ted Rogers, Biologist
    >USDA-Office of Pest Management Policy
    >
    >
    Ronald Nigh
    Dana, A.C.
    Mexico, D.F. & San Cristóbal de Las Casas, Chiapas
    Tel. y FAX  525-666-73-66 (DF)
              529-678-72-15 (Chiapas)
    danamex@mail.internet.com.mx

      --------------3E374572D17E881A7DE433D4-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 19 19:55:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06098 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16458 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:16:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16449 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp40.epix.net [209.74.60.40]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999072601/PL) with ESMTP id TAA22277 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E57016.827C331D@epix.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:21:58 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: video of clean water runoff on Groff Farm References: <19990917195239.27651.qmail@hotmail.com> <37E2D222.EA9EE895@epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2775 sanet, Several have contacted me regarding the video I took of the clean water running off our "permanent cover" farm vs. the "clay soup" leaving my nieghbors conventional farm during Hurricane Floyd. I've decided to edit the footage and then make it availible to those who would like to have a copy. (don't know the cost yet) I will also put some short clips on my website. Anyone who is interested in a copy can contact me and I'll let you know when it's done.Since I'm still busy harvesting the crops it will probably be thanksgiving till I have it ready. -- Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Sep 18 15:29:36 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20938 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:29:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20231 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:41:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20213 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA13149; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27947; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:53:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.pointer X-Conference: panna.pointer From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Resource Pointer #220 To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 87 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2776 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Resource Pointer #220 September 17, 1999 For copies of the following resources, please contact the appropriate publishers or organizations directly. *Edmonds Institute Website* http://www.edmonds-institute.org Provides information on Edmonds Institute's activities plus science and policy papers on biotechnology. Covers Edmonds Institute's challenge to bioprospecting in Yellowstone; science of Terminator technology; history of U.S. biotechnology policy debates; and downloadable versions of Edmonds Institute's Manual for Assessing Ecological and Human Health Effects of Genetically Engineered Organisms. Contact The Edmonds Institute, 20319 92nd Ave. W., Edmonds, Washington 98020; phone (425) 775-5383; fax (425) 670-8410; email beb@igc.org *Mothers for Natural Law Website* http://www.safe-food.org Provides information on Mothers for Natural Law campaign for labeling of genetically engineered (GE) food. Includes list of GE crops currently approved for sale; database of sources for non-GE food ingredients; and information on testing and certification of non-GE foods. Also provides guidelines for shoppers on avoiding GE products; information on GE enzymes; resources for gardeners; and more. Includes link to petition on labeling plus information on how to become involved in GE campaigns. Contact Mothers for Natural Law, P.O. Box 1177, Fairfield, IA 52556; phone (515) 472-2809 *OECD Environmental Health and Safety Website* http://www.oecd.org/ehs/ Covers Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) activities related to chemical accidents, pesticides, biotechnology and more. Includes "biotrack online," covering international harmonization of regulatory oversight in biotechnology. Provides links to text of consensus documents on regulatory assessment of biotechnology products; database of field trials of genetically engineered crops; proceedings of task force on safety of novel foods; and more. Contact OECD, 2, rue Andri Pascal, 75775 Paris Cedex 16; phone (33-1) 45248200; fax (33-1) 45241675 *Monsanto: Food, Health, Hope, 1999* A.V. Krebs. Food First Backgrounder, Summer 1999. Reviews and critiques Monsanto policies and products and describes global opposition efforts. Discusses rejection of Terminator technology by Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR); suicides among Indian farmers due to failure of Monsanto cotton crops; suppression of investigative journalism on recombinant bovine growth hormone (r- BGH); and more. Criticizes Monsanto's adoption of trademark phrase "Food-Health-Hope." 8 pp. US$0.50. Contact Institute for Food and Development Policy, 398 60th St., Oakland, CA 94618; phone (510) 654-4400; email foodfirst@foodfirst.org; website http://www.foodfirst.org *The Monsanto Files: Can We Survive Genetic Engineering? Spanish translation, 1999* Spanish translation of May 1999 issue of The Ecologist . English version was initially shredded by printer due to fears of legal action by Monsanto. Discusses Monsanto products including Agent Orange, Roundup, recombinant bovine growth hormone (r-BGH) and Terminator technology. Covers "revolving door" between Monsanto and government agencies; Monsanto's public relations campaigns; and company's lack of transparency. 66 pp. US$4.95. Contact Ecologistas en Accisn, Marquis de Leganis, 12 - 28004 Madrid, Spain; phone (91) 5312739; fax (91) 5312611; email ecologistas@nodo50.org; website http://www.nodo50.org/ecologistas We encourage those interested in having resources listed in the PANUPS Resource Pointer to send review copies of publications, videos or other resources to our office. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 04:21:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11538 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA10146 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:14:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10037 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28787 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:14:17 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13032 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:14:22 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 20 Sep 99 09:07:37 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 20 Sep 99 09:07:31 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:07:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Kelp and Chromium Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <24DA7B80E22@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2777 hello andy, >Some new scientific discoveries that made me wonder. >I am not positive, but I think that organic farmers have been using >kelp in similar ways for years. Maybe the next big discovery >will be that feeding kelp to chickens (as Joel Salatin has been >for years) is also beneficial. one question: does the article say, whether the kelp was in dry form or fresh ? and how much did they feed the cows ? please take a look at the publication years of the articles below Kandiah, S. Manurial value of some agricultural waste products, wood ashes, seaweeds and water hyacinth. Trop Agr [Ceylon] Jan/Mar. 1946 102(1):31-38 Chowdhury, S. Manures and manuring. CH VIII. Sea-weed and water hyacinth. Alahabad Farmer Nov. 1945 19:160-163 Walsh, T. Kelp as a reverting material for superphosphate. Erie Dept Agr J 1948 45:51-64 Bell, L. J. Why the Cornish storm their beaches for seaweed. Smallholder Sep. 30, 1949 81(2061):16-17 Conlon, J. Seaweed-the complete fertilizer. Beet Grower Jan. 1951 4:261-264 Haun, T.H. Sea vegetation, a source of natural trace minerals. A medical view of agriculture. II-III. New Agr June/July 1951 33(9):12-13;(10):12-13 Browne, M.B. Seaweed as fertilizer and weed killer. Grower [London] Nov. 13, 1954 42:945-947 Senn, T.L., Martin, J.A., Fox, D.F. Gift from the sea. (Seaweeds as fertilizer for vegetables.) Amer Veg Grower Nov. 1961 9(11):20 Webber, E.R. Seaweed in agriculture. Fert and Feed Stuffs J Mar. 8, 1961 54(5):197-198,203 Miles, G.P.L. Seaweed for animal and plant nutrition. Fert and Feed Stuffs J May 30, 1962 56(11):463-464 Great Britain Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries. Seaweed as manure. Gt Brit Min Agr and Fisheries Advisory Leaflet 200, London 1943 2p. Ireland Dept. of Agriculture Seaweed as manure. Ireland Dept Agr L 99 Oct. 1959 4p. Commonwealth Bur of Soils Bibliography on seaweed as fertilizers (1958-1942). Commonwealth Bur Soil Sci [Annot. Bib.] Mar. 1960 3p. Gt. Brit. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. Seaweed as manure. Gt Brit Min Ag Fish & Food Adv L 200 Feb. 1962 rev. 3p. Commonwealth Bur of Soils Bibliography on seaweed as fertilizers (1958-1942). Commonwealth Bur Soil Sci [Annot. Bib.] Mar. 1960 3p. Gt. Brit. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. Seaweed as manure. Gt Brit Min Ag Fish & Food Adv L 200 Feb. 1962 rev. 3p. Jarrett, G. The calcified seaweed story (Lithothamnium calcareum, fertilizer for pastures). The Soil Association Sep. 1979 6,i.e.,5(3):2-5 Howie, G.W. The use of wrack in wartime. (Seaweed as manure) Isle of Man Bd of Agr Increased Food Prod Advisory Leaflet 7 Peel 1941 5p. Tseng, C.K. Utilization of seaweeds. Sci Monthly July 1944 59:37-46 Chidambaram, K., Unny, M.M. Note on the value of seaweeds as manure (Abs.). Int Seaweed Symp Proc 1952, pub. 1953 1:67-68 Little, E.C.S. The decomposition rates and manurial value of some common brown seaweeds. Pacific Sci Cong Proc 1949, pub. 1953 7(5):83-91 Rosenauer, H. Seaweeds, a plant food. World Crops Sep. 1958 10(9):329-330 Francki, R.I.B. Studies in manurial values of seaweeds. I-II. Plant and Soil June 1960 12(4):297-323 Wachtel, T. The use of seaweed as a fertilizer. West Aust Dept Agr J 1961 (ser 4) Venkataraman, G.S. Algae, fertilizers of the future. Indian Farming May 1962 12(2):6-7,15 Driggers, B.F., and Maurice, P.E. Observations on the effect of seaweed extracts on strawberries and peaches. N J State Hort Soc Hort News May 1964 45(3):12,15 Ramanathan, K.M. and others A study on the composting of sea-weeds. Madras Agr J Nov. 1964 51(11):451-457 Commonwealth Bur. of Soils Bibliography on seaweed as fertilizer (1964-1931) revision of No. 288). Commonwealth Bur Soils [Annot Bibliogr] 1965 903,7p. Blunden, G., Challen, S.B., Woods, D.L. Seaweed extracts as fertilizers. J Sci Food Agr June 1968 19(6):289-293 Chase, J. L. H. Seaweed, pollution and organic husbandry [Fertilizers] Soil Assoc J Oct. 1970 16(4):221-223 Rapson, A.M., Moore, L.B., Elliott, I.L. Seaweed as a source of potash in New Zealand. New Zeal J Sci & Tech Mar. 1942 23:149B-170B Myklestad, S. Experiments with seaweed as supplemental fertilizer. Int Symp Seaweed Res Proc 4th Symp 1961, pub. 1964 :432-438 Blunden, G. The effects of aqueous seaweed extract as a fertilizer additive. [Horticultural crops, foliar application] In Intl Symposium on Seaweed Research, 7th Proceedings 1971 584-589 Stephenson, J. W. Grow successfully with seaweed [Fertilizers] Soil Assoc Jul. 1973 1(4):8-9 Biswas, D.K. Integrated measures for control and utilization (as manure and compost) of aquatic weeds. Bhagirath; the irrigation & power quarterly New Delhi, Central Water Comm. Ministry of Agriculture and Irrigation Jul. 1978 25(3):138-142 Blunden, G. Wildgoose, P.B., Nicholson, F.E. The effects of aqueous seaweed extract on sugar beet (Cytokinin activity). Botanica Marina Dec. 1979 22(8):539-541 ---- all taken from : /pub/academic/agriculture/sustainable_agriculture/bibliography (i hadn't archived the url completely, so i assume it to be something like http://www.ncsu/pub/...) Bibliography of organic gardening and farming books, periodicals and journals dating from the 1800's to the 1960's. Prepared by Preston Sullivan (now with A.T.T.R.A., Fayetteville, Ark.) at North Carolina State University, Dept.of Soil Science Released for use by sunSITE Sustainable Agriculture Archives by Dr. Larry King, Dept. of Soil Science, N.C.S.U. --- seaweed not only is a naturally used fertilizer for hundreds of year, but for at least the same time is also used as staple food in coastal regions of asia, south america and africa. their overall micronutrient content as fertilizer is smaller than that of nowadays fertilizer, but it is also more constant and broader (the shell of the earth, where fertilizers are explored, varies very much. it also varies among the different genus of seaweed). 3 additional things to mention: it's not SOO bad to read about old facts in new publications. by these means people are reminded of old knowledge and it might get a new drive and a new chance under today's aspects. and up to now i did not find ANY source for beneficial effects of feeding seaweeds.. the coastal inhabitants have free and (almost also important) short transportation ways to "harvest" seaweed. so for them it is a very interesting way to add minerals to their fields. whether it is biologically (under medical aspects) useful to dry it and sell it as under multi license systems, i strongly doubt. but it's certainly economically useful to transport the dried seaweed into the country, because it's sundried (i.e almost for free). noone of the guests in our institute for example in bangladesh or india would even have asked the question, if seaweed is useful and healthy !!! they told me of a lot of research in asian institutes and in my opinion the ONLY reason we never have heard of it, is the language barrier. older asian journals are unknown in europe (you don't get them in libraries) and the few i found, often were written in their natural language with a short english summary. now, does anyone here can read urdu or japanese ??? there's an enormous fundus of knowledge no western scientist is able to learn and that largely contributes to the different philosophies and points of view between them and us. maybe the problem is smaller at the west coast of the usa and australia, but here in europe asian science is "undiscovered land". i'm absolutely sure, there exist thousands of papers from asian agricultural and medical institutes about the use of seaweed.. there should be a reason, why japanese use it for their "miso". like these western sources: TI Earth Week: Deep-Sea Cures SO Houston Chronicle (12/16/96) P. 7C AB Researchers in search of new drug candidates to treat AIDS, cancer, Alzheimer's, and other disorders have begun exploring the oceans near the Bahamas. Using a high-tech submersible from Florida's Harbor Beach Oceanographic Institute, the scientists are collecting algae and other organisms that may produce unique chemical compounds. Previously, researchers isolated a group of compounds called topsentins from sea organisms that may be useful as a treatment for arthritis. Copyright (c) 1996 - Information, Inc., Bethesda, MD. This information is provided by the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC), National AIDS Clearinghouse as a public service. Noncommercial reproduction encouraged. Jensen A. PRESENT AND FUTURE NEEDS FOR ALGAE AND ALGAL PRODUCTS Hydrobiologia. 261:15-23, 1993 Jun 18. A review of the present needs, mainly for production of phycocolloids and food condiments, is given. Supply and demand vary from balanced, in some, to disproportionate in other fields. World-wide shortage of agarophytes contrasts with huge, unexploited beds of brown seaweeds. In future, partly conflicting trends will decide the needs for algae and algal products. Growth in the human population, pollution, overexploitation of land and lack of freshwater will encourage use of seaweeds. Modem biotechnology will favour this development, but will also be a serious threat to industrial exploitation of seaweeds. Future uses of marine algae will be decisively influenced by the effort put into and the results coming out of seaweed research. Gerwick WH et al. BIOLOGICALLY ACTIVE OXYLIPINS FROM SEAWEEDS Hydrobiologia. 261:653-665, 1993 Jun 18. Our previous research has shown that many red algae metabolize polyunsaturated fatty acids to oxidized products resembling the eicosanoid hormones from mammals. We have extended these studies to members of the Phaeophyceae and Chlorophyta and find they also possess similar biosynthetic pathways. From several we have identified novel prostaglandin-like substances. Studies of the molecular mechanisms by which some of these marine oxylipins are formed have revealed that novel oxidative reactions are utilized. Understanding of these biosynthetic pathways in detail has allowed their utilization to produce research biochemicals of high value, such as 12S-hydroperoxyeicosatetraenoic acid (12S-HPETE). Because of their biological properties, seaweed-derived oxylipins have potential utility as pharmaceuticals and research biochemicals. Crouch IJ. Vanstaden J. EVIDENCE FOR THE PRESENCE OF PLANT GROWTH REGULATORS IN COMMERCIAL SEAWEED PRODUCTS [Review] Plant Growth Regulation. 13(1):21-29, 1993 May. Although seaweeds and various seaweed products have been utilized in agricultural practices for many years, the precise mechanism by which they elicit their beneficial growth responses is still not fully understood. The amount of mineral nutrients in commercial preparations cannot account for the magnitude of the responses. Some other factor, such as the presence of endogenous plant growth regulators is, therefore, thought to be involved. This paper reviews the literature supporting evidence for the occurrence of plant hormones in commercial seaweed preparations. evidently the minerals in the seawater were (and still are) very inportant for the first fishes, who later became amphibia, when they began their first "excursions" to the land. today it is assumed, that they did not develop bones for reasons of stability or walking and going upright, but because these primitive skeletons were their reservoir of minerals, which were so important to them and were not found on their food on land.. contrary: what maybe gave seaweed a bad reputation in your country (here it is much less known), are these salescritters selling unproven algae like super blue green algae from f. example lake klamath for health purposes in *homoepathic doses* for 39,95$/10 pcs. they have such potions as pycnogenol, super blue green algae (aka pond scum. the faecal infections in klamath are so high, that fish poisoning is a annual summer event), g-d's recipe, and other have no demonstrated proof that they do anything against the condition. they even steal b-vitamins from your body's liver depots.. the sales are normally done with scare tactics, lies, and phony anecdotes about how such-and-such helped their neighbors kid and that parent stood by for ten zillion years while the evil pharmaceutical made the child grow two heads and a prehensile tail. however, if you want to suffer wds (wallet depletion syndrome) you could waste your money on it. remember: blue-green is also the color of your money !!! klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 04:29:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11586 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 04:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19898 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:54:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19826 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28975; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:52:53 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:38:03 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: CDC: foodborne disease estimates Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2778 Howdy, all-- In our ongoing thread on organic food and foodborne diseases (FBDs), thought you might like to see last week's CDC press release on the topic, via ProMED. Note this paragraph, which appears as the next-to-the-last one: "Although the U.S. food supply is among the safest in the world, the nation increasingly faces new food safety challenges. Novel pathogens are emerging, and familiar ones are growing resistant to treatment. Since 1942, the number of known food-borne pathogens has increased more than five-fold. American consumers eat out more and cook for themselves less. They also eat more processed food than ever before, involving more people and more preparation, thus increasing the chance for disease-producing food-handling errors. In addition, the number of people most vulnerable to food-borne disease continues to grow: baby boomers are aging thus increasing their vulnerability to food-borne illness." Novel pathogens and treatment resistance are matters of the industrial/ "managed-care" health and the industrial food systems' putting unusual selection pressures on microbes, encouraging the evolution of resistant strains. (I've got another item for you all in the works on that topic, going back to Russ Bulluck's thoughts on soil-borne enteric bacteria.) Increasing consumption of value-added food and food-handling problems in that sector are features of the industrial food system. And it's a demographic reality that all people are aging and living longer. Not, might I note, just "baby boomers." Last I checked, the people now alive in their 80s, who are among the most vulnerable to /E. coli/, /Salmonella/, and other FBDs are Depression-era people. In addition, I don't know what proportion of organic food is sold directly to consumers or to retail outlets, for home preparation. But I'm willing to bet that it's a much higher proportion than industrial food. I base that on CIAS's work in the past 5 years on the institutional buying of local and organic food--not many institutions and restaurants source their food from organic farms/growers. And the key to preventing foodborne illness lies, as it always has, in proper preparation: cleanliness in handling, appropriate cooking of meats and eggs, etc. That's a lot harder to get hold of in an industrialized food system than a more democratized one. Here's the full release: FOODBORNE DISEASE ESTIMATES, CDC, PULSENET - USA ************************************************* A ProMED post Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:37:09 -0400 From: Thomas James Allen Source: CDC press release, 16 Sep 1999 The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released today the most complete estimate to date on the incidence of food-borne disease in the United States. According to data published in the current issue of CDC's Emerging Infectious Diseases, CDC's peer-reviewed journal that tracks new and reemerging infectious diseases worldwide, diseases caused by food may cause an estimated 325 000 serious illnesses resulting in hospitalizations, 76 million cases of gastrointestinal illnesses, and 5000 deaths each year. "While the U.S. food supply remains one of the safest in the world, these new findings further support what we have said all along: the public health burden of food-borne disease is substantial," said HHS Secretary Donna E. Shalala. "Our investments in better tracking and surveillance systems have resulted in more complete data to help us evaluate ongoing and future food safety efforts. I urge Congress to help us continue to build upon our food safety programs -- we need to maintain our aggressive efforts on food safety, and we need to fully fund the President's food safety initiative." The data being released today come from a variety of sources including new and existing surveillance systems, death certificates and published studies from academic institutions. According to CDC Director Dr. Jeffrey Koplan, these are the most complete estimates ever calculated and should not be compared to previous estimates since the estimates are a result of better information and new analyses rather than changes in disease frequency over time. These new estimates provide a snapshot of the problem and do not measure trends and do not indicate that the problem is getting better or worse. In addition, these new estimates include some diseases, such as those caused by _E. coli_ O157:H7 and Norwalk-like viruses, that were not included in some previous estimates, he noted. "Accurate estimates of disease burden are the foundation of sound public health policy," Dr. Koplan said. "We're extremely pleased to have a new baseline to measure our future efforts to improve food safety. Updated estimates of food-borne illness are needed to guide new prevention efforts and assess the effectiveness of food safety measures." These measures used 1997 as a baseline --- before key food safety programs were implemented. Although the U.S. food supply is among the safest in the world, the nation increasingly faces new food safety challenges. Novel pathogens are emerging, and familiar ones are growing resistant to treatment. Since 1942, the number of known food-borne pathogens has increased more than five-fold. American consumers eat out more and cook for themselves less. They also eat more processed food than ever before, involving more people and more preparation, thus increasing the chance for disease-producing food-handling errors. In addition, the number of people most vulnerable to food-borne disease continues to grow: baby boomers are aging thus increasing their vulnerability to food-borne illness. Since 1993, the Clinton Administration significantly has expanded food safety programs, increasing consumer protections to ensure that the U.S. food supply remains one of the safest in the world. Some improvements include: new safety standards for meat, poultry and seafood products, better surveillance for food-borne diseases through FoodNet, and a new Early Warning System implemented to improve our detection of outbreaks. In 1998, CDC launched a collaborative interagency initiative called PulseNet that uses DNA fingerprinting to better detect food-borne illness. Today, any one of the more than 35 laboratories in CDC's PulseNet network can fingerprint _E. coli_ in less than 24 hours whereas the process used to take days or weeks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Add this to your Debunking Dennis files. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 06:14:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12151 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03545 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:09:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03536 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:00:38 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: SANET-mg , "'Misha'" Subject: RE: foodborne disease estimates Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:00:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2779 while in general i agree with misha's overview of the cdc press release, i would pick up on a couple points . . . first, the elderly . . . the cdc said: the number of people most vulnerable to food-borne disease continues to grow: baby boomers are aging thus increasing their vulnerability to food-borne illness . . . normally the way one would pursue this line of inquiry is to look at age-specific rates of food-borne disease . . . the 'elderly hypothesis' would lead one to expect that rates among older persons are rising faster than rates for younger age groups, and/or that the number of cases among older persons is rising faster than numbers for younger age groups . . . whle these may be going on, i have not seen any analysis that actually shows that it is happening second, democratization . . . the key to preventing foodborne illness lies, as it always has, in proper preparation: cleanliness in handling, appropriate cooking of meats and eggs, etc. That's a lot harder to get hold of in an industrialized food system than a more democratized one . . . while i'm all for democratization, i'm not sure that proper preparation is easier to get hold of in a democratized systrem . . . while presumably the motivation is in the right place, educating hundreds of millions of food preparers is an enormous burden, especially if the foodborne disease situation itself is continually changing so that education has to be continuing . . . again, i'm not arguing for an industrialized food system; i am arguing that food safety is not necessarily easier in a democratized system cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Misha[SMTP:mgs23@pacbell.net] > Sent: Sunday 19 September 1999 8:38 PM > To: SANET-mg > Subject: CDC: foodborne disease estimates > > Howdy, all-- > > In our ongoing thread on organic food and foodborne diseases (FBDs), > thought you might like to see last week's CDC press release on the > topic, via ProMED. > > Note this paragraph, which appears as the next-to-the-last one: > > "Although the U.S. food supply is among the safest in the world, the > nation > increasingly faces new food safety challenges. Novel pathogens are > emerging, and familiar ones are growing resistant to treatment. Since > 1942, > the number of known food-borne pathogens has increased more than > five-fold. > American consumers eat out more and cook for themselves less. They also > eat > more processed food than ever before, involving more people and more > preparation, thus increasing the chance for disease-producing > food-handling > errors. In addition, the number of people most vulnerable to food-borne > disease continues to grow: baby boomers are aging thus increasing their > vulnerability to food-borne illness." > > Novel pathogens and treatment resistance are matters of the > industrial/ "managed-care" health and the industrial food systems' > putting unusual selection pressures on microbes, encouraging the > evolution of resistant strains. (I've got another item for you all in > the works on that topic, going back to Russ Bulluck's thoughts on > soil-borne enteric bacteria.) > > Increasing consumption of value-added food and food-handling problems > in that sector are features of the industrial food system. > > And it's a demographic reality that all people are aging and living > longer. Not, might I note, just "baby boomers." Last I checked, the > people now alive in their 80s, who are among the most vulnerable to > /E. coli/, /Salmonella/, and other FBDs are Depression-era people. > > In addition, I don't know what proportion of organic food is sold > directly to consumers or to retail outlets, for home preparation. But > I'm willing to bet that it's a much higher proportion than industrial > food. I base that on CIAS's work in the past 5 years on the > institutional buying of local and organic food--not many institutions > and restaurants source their food from organic farms/growers. And the > key to preventing foodborne illness lies, as it always has, in proper > preparation: cleanliness in handling, appropriate cooking of meats > and eggs, etc. That's a lot harder to get hold of in an > industrialized food system than a more democratized one. > > Here's the full release: > > > FOODBORNE DISEASE ESTIMATES, CDC, PULSENET - USA > ************************************************* > A ProMED post > > Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:37:09 -0400 > From: Thomas James Allen > Source: CDC press release, 16 Sep 1999 > > > The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released today the > most complete estimate to date on the incidence of food-borne disease in > the United States. According to data published in the current issue of > CDC's Emerging Infectious Diseases, CDC's peer-reviewed journal that > tracks > new and reemerging infectious diseases worldwide, diseases caused by food > may cause an estimated 325 000 serious illnesses resulting in > hospitalizations, 76 million cases of gastrointestinal illnesses, and 5000 > deaths each year. > > "While the U.S. food supply remains one of the safest in the world, these > new findings further support what we have said all along: the public > health > burden of food-borne disease is substantial," said HHS Secretary Donna E. > Shalala. "Our investments in better tracking and surveillance systems have > resulted in more complete data to help us evaluate ongoing and future food > safety efforts. I urge Congress to help us continue to build upon our food > safety programs -- we need to maintain our aggressive efforts on food > safety, and we need to fully fund the President's food safety initiative." > > The data being released today come from a variety of sources including new > and existing surveillance systems, death certificates and published > studies > from academic institutions. According to CDC Director Dr. Jeffrey Koplan, > these are the most complete estimates ever calculated and should not be > compared to previous estimates since the estimates are a result of better > information and new analyses rather than changes in disease frequency over > time. These new estimates provide a snapshot of the problem and do not > measure trends and do not indicate that the problem is getting better or > worse. In addition, these new estimates include some diseases, such as > those caused by _E. coli_ O157:H7 and Norwalk-like viruses, that were not > included in some previous estimates, he noted. > > "Accurate estimates of disease burden are the foundation of sound public > health policy," Dr. Koplan said. "We're extremely pleased to have a new > baseline to measure our future efforts to improve food safety. Updated > estimates of food-borne illness are needed to guide new prevention efforts > and assess the effectiveness of food safety measures." These measures used > 1997 as a baseline --- before key food safety programs were implemented. > > Although the U.S. food supply is among the safest in the world, the nation > increasingly faces new food safety challenges. Novel pathogens are > emerging, and familiar ones are growing resistant to treatment. Since > 1942, > the number of known food-borne pathogens has increased more than > five-fold. > American consumers eat out more and cook for themselves less. They also > eat > more processed food than ever before, involving more people and more > preparation, thus increasing the chance for disease-producing > food-handling > errors. In addition, the number of people most vulnerable to food-borne > disease continues to grow: baby boomers are aging thus increasing their > vulnerability to food-borne illness. > > Since 1993, the Clinton Administration significantly has expanded food > safety programs, increasing consumer protections to ensure that the U.S. > food supply remains one of the safest in the world. Some improvements > include: new safety standards for meat, poultry and seafood products, > better surveillance for food-borne diseases through FoodNet, and a new > Early Warning System implemented to improve our detection of outbreaks. In > 1998, CDC launched a collaborative interagency initiative called PulseNet > that uses DNA fingerprinting to better detect food-borne illness. Today, > any one of the more than 35 laboratories in CDC's PulseNet network can > fingerprint _E. coli_ in less than 24 hours whereas the process used to > take days or weeks. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Add this to your Debunking Dennis files. > > > peace > misha > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michele Gale-Sinex > Communications manager > Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison > http://www.wisc.edu > UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 > Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) > Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is > safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 09:15:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13884 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19406 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:31:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19391 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:35:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: Virtual Conference Sustainable Animal Production Oct. 99 - Ma rch Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:35:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2780 -----Original Message----- From: McAlister [mailto:Mcalist@VW.tiho-hannover.de] Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 4:47 AM To: 'ag/vet Cc: mflachs@vw.tiho-hannover.de; moennig@viro.tiho-hannover.de; ruthe@marketing-agrar.de Subject: Virtual Conference Sustainable Animal Production Oct. 99 - March Dear colleague, On the eve of the millennium sustainable animal production is one of the major challenges facing the world's ever increasing population. A research consortium formed by scientists from the German Federal Agricultural Research Centre (Braunschweig), the Universities of Goettingen and Vechta and the School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover is therefore holding a virtual conference on that complex topic. The primary goal of the conference is to develop a scientifically sound vision for a future animal production that is not only commercially viable but also environmentally sound, responsive to consumer demands, and adequate to animal health and welfare needs. More information and registration details are available at the conference site: http://www.agriculture.de We cordially invite you to participate and ask you to forward this message to colleagues who would be interested. Sincerely, Prof. Volker Moennig Rector, School of Veterinary Medicine Hannover on behalf of the Research Consortium Sustainable Animal Production To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 09:17:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13921 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16919 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:26:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16771 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:30:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: CGIAR Conference on Biotechnology in Developing Countries Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:30:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2781 An International Conference on Biotechnology in developing countries is being organized by CGIAR during October 21-22, 1999 at The World Bank Washington, DC. Some very topical and interesting issues such as risks from biotech, IPR issues, and 'communicating biotech' are being discussed in an open forum plus invited talks by Van Montagu, Bruce Alberts, Serageldin and Swaminathan. The registration is free but slots are limited. For more information, visit: http://www.cgiar.org/cgnas.htm or write to Dr. Manuel Lantin (Mlantin@worldbank.org) The CGIAR Secretariat The World Bank 1818 H Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20433, USA Telephone: 202.473.8951 Fax: 202.473.8110 Some topic areas are highlighted here. See the web for more information http://www.cgiar.org/cgnas.htm [cut] "Specific topics to be addressed are: Risks to environment * Risks to human health * Risks and impact on social and economic order * Ethical challenges * Roles of public and private sectors in biotechnology research for developing country agriculture * Intellectual property management " A special session on "Communicating Biotechnology" will focus on the important role of the media in informing the public about risks and benefits and in promoting a balanced discussion of the issues." [cut] "Specifically, the sessions will address the following questions: * What are the challenges? * What are the opportunities for deploying biotechnological approaches? * What are the constraints to the use of these approaches? * How can the CGIAR and international agricultural research centers assist developing countries to build national capacity in areas of biotechnology, including risk and regulatory issues and intellectual property management?" [cut] An International Conference on Biotechnology in developing countries is being organized by CGIAR during October 21-22, 1999 at The World Bank Washington, DC. Some very topical and interesting issues such as risks from biotech, IPR issues, and 'communicating biotech' are being discussed in an open forum plus invited talks by Van Montagu, Bruce Alberts, Serageldin and Swaminathan. The registration is free but slots are limited. For more information, visit: http://www.cgiar.org/cgnas.htm or write to Dr. Manuel Lantin (Mlantin@worldbank.org) The CGIAR Secretariat The World Bank 1818 H Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20433, USA Telephone: 202.473.8951 Fax: 202.473.8110 - Prakash ================================ Convened by the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR) and the US National Academy of Sciences Biotechnology and its potential impact on agriculture in developing countries will be the theme of an international conference on October 21-22, 1999 at the World Bank in Washington, DC. The conference is sponsored by the Consultative Group on International Agricultural Research (CGIAR) in partnership with the U.S. National Academy of Sciences (NAS). There are two key objectives: (1) to broaden awareness of developing countries' views on issues associated with biotechnology, their experiences with its use, and their needs and priorities; and (2) to contribute to a science-based understanding of the issues and public concerns related to biotechnology and how these might be addressed. By providing a forum for scientific debate and review of the best available evidence on these issues, the conference aims to advance public understanding through open, inclusive, and participatory debate that is grounded in scientific evidence and concerned with the common good. Representatives of national research organizations, academics, scientists, international agricultural researchers, non-governmental and community-based organizations, the private sector, development communicators, and the media have been invited to contribute their perspectives. The conference will explore a diverse range of issues-technological, environmental, ethical, economic and social-specifically regarding the needs of small farmers in developing countries. The secretariat for the conference is provided by the CGIAR. Manuel Lantin, Science Advisor, is the conference coordinator. For information see the CGIAR website at www.cgiar.org or contact: The CGIAR Secretariat The World Bank 1818 H Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20433, USA Telephone: 202.473.8951 Fax: 202.473.8110 Conference Organization Bruce Alberts, President of the US National Academy of Sciences, Ismail Serageldin, World Bank Vice President and CGIAR Chairman, and distinguished scientists M.S. Swaminathan and Marc Van Montagu will open the conference with keynote addresses on the challenges to agriculture faced by developing countries and the potential role that biotechnology can play in addressing such challenges. Senior policy makers and leaders of national agricultural research systems from developing countries in Asia-Pacific, Sub-Saharan Africa, West Asia and North Africa, and Latin America and the Caribbean will share their views on and experiences with biotechnology in parallel sessions. Specifically, the sessions will address the following questions: What are the challenges? * What are the opportunities for deploying biotechnological approaches? * What are the constraints to the use of these approaches? * How can the CGIAR and international agricultural research centers assist developing countries to build national capacity in areas of biotechnology, including risk and regulatory issues and intellectual property management? Critical issues and public concerns related to biotechnology, particularly in the context of developing countries, will be discussed in plenary. These sessions will draw upon the presentation and discussions in the preceding parallel sessions. Specific topics to be addressed are: Risks to environment * Risks to human health * Risks and impact on social and economic order * Ethical challenges * Roles of public and private sectors in biotechnology research for developing country agriculture * Intellectual property management A special session on "Communicating Biotechnology" will focus on the important role of the media in informing the public about risks and benefits and in promoting a balanced discussion of the issues. The closing plenary will be devoted to presentation of a conference summary report. CGIAR and NAS will publish the edited proceedings of the conference. ================================================ C. S. Prakash Tuskegee University Center for Plant Biotechnology Research Tuskegee, AL 36088 USA Email: Prakash@tusk.edu Phone (334) 727 8023; Fax (334) 727 8067 ================================================ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 10:46:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15276 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21991 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:54:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21974 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05665 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA13875 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E63D0B.ACFE334@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:56:27 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Floyd effects? References: <19990917195239.27651.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2782 Lester Loam wrote: > Following hurricane Floyd the past few days, my first thoughts were of > course were with the people who were in its path, hoping that no one got > killed and that the damage wasn't too bad. > > My second thoughts were about all those hog lagoons in North Carolina and > all those chicken farms on the Delmarva Peninsula. What does 20 inches of > rain do to them? Did they hold up? Or did they fail, making life worse for > the people in the area. According to the local news (WRAL), an estimate of 100,000 swine and 1,000,000 poultry are dead. Water quality is expected to be affected. More importantly, one river (the Neuse) runs through two counties with more pigs than people, and is not expected to crest until Wednesday, at 24 to 26 feet above flood stage! -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 12:46:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17966 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14778 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:54:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlnotes.unl.edu (unlnotes.unl.edu [129.93.1.131]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14700 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: lmbauer@unlnotes.unl.edu Received: from unlnotes02.unl.edu ([129.93.1.3]) by unlnotes.unl.edu (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) with SMTP id 862567F2.00570A2F; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:50:42 -0500 Received: by unlnotes02.unl.edu(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 862567F2.0057436F ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:53:08 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, SAEd-Share-L@cornell.edu, jholley@tmn.com, ncrsarenews@unl.edu Message-ID: <862567F2.00574282.00@unlnotes02.unl.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:53:05 -0500 Subject: Register for SARE's marketing conference online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2783 Greetings, If you are interested, you can now register online for North Central Region SARE's Alternative Agricultural Marketing conference, to be held Nov. 19-20, 1999, in Lincoln, Nebraska. Go to http://www.unl.edu/conted/acpp/sare Call 402-472-2844 or send e-mail to acpp1@unl.edu for more information or for a farmer scholarship application form. Farmer scholarship applicants must reside in the North Central region, but participants from any state or country are welcome at the conference. Thank you, Lisa Lisa Bauer Communications Specialist North Central Region SARE University of Nebraska 13A Activities Bldg. PO Box 830840 Lincoln, NE 68583-0840 402-472-0265 402-472-0280 (fax) lbauer2@unl.edu www.sare.org/ncrsare To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 14:23:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19966 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15202 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:43:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA15120 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:29:11 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:37:57 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, janebug@hotmail.com, jlozier@wvu.edu Subject: Re: IFOAM statement at Maastricht -Reply -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2784 Jane, thanks for your earlier comment and this response; I am afraid that any positive feelings I might have had toward IFOAM fell by the wayside a while back, familiarity and all that (see Bart's comment). Yeah, despite my discomforts with precision agriculture and some other of the "advanced approaches" they occasionally show some promise. I am seeing a great deal of good stuff going on in the so called conventional realm. I have even run into a few folks who know what humus is and that it ain't "just organic matter", wonders never cease. There are so many structural problems that will take generations to effect. Where are the truly competent managers of agro-ecosystems in the numbers necessary to establish what you or I might formulate as an ideal agrarian system... We are very fortunate to have folks like Steve Groff out there slugging; just wish there were more of them. Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 14:26:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20033 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03178 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:15:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA03174 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:01:57 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:10:27 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, bluestem@webserf.net Subject: Re: IFOAM -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2785 Precisely, some how the scientific organization (IFOAM) that I was so excited about back in the early seventies, when it was created, has been subsumed by the standards setting and marketing interests (these interests are all to close for proper standards enforcement in every organization that I am familiar with, please correct me if I missed on this point Bart). I believe that the Soil Association has gone the same way. I do not think that marketing can be ignored, indeed it is a critical aspect of the whole beast but when it absorbs everything else strange things happen. The profits then must be protected at all costs, humus management or sustainability be damned. Bart, my old friend, we are truly cursed to live in these interesting times. Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Sep 20 03:56:54 1999 -0400 Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11399 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29034; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:34:57 -0700 To: rons@dnai.com, wmstouch@midplains.net, rjcooney@facstaff.wisc.edu, kestiles@students.wisc.edu, grargall@alphalink.com.au, greenman@optelnow.net, bb@omri.org, cdcramer@clarityconnect.com, london@metalab.unc.edu, lvpage@execpc.com, csbakery@aol.com, lindah@erinet.com, danrice@color-country.net, rigale@mailbag.com, rbruman@dnai.com, klutgens@streetfusion.com, gtreking@hotmail.com, mpeterso@uwc.edu, san@nal.usda.gov, geek@fullfeed.com From: Misha Subject: The Page of Anxiety and other resources Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2786 In the course of engineering a initiation for a prospective new member of my M/C (one of those Vast Presidential Duties and Responsibilities), and researching appropriate activities, I digressed (all roads lead to roam) into countersteering through the pylons of wack-shit-daddy URLs that have accreted in my FNORD bookmark folder. So in the spirit of SHARING, and since I've been out of touch with a bunch of you since learning about my mom's death in Phila. this summer, I send these along, given that the days are getting short, the nights long, the winter squash appearing in produce markets everywhere (even in SF, how strange), and Dan "Mr. Pumpkinhead" Quayle's vapid-bimbo countenance is appearing more frequently lately than double-backed tape in the backstage dressing rooms of beauty pageant contestants. I don't know what we all did to deserve that (Quayle), but karma is karma, just as dogma is dogma, magma is magma, and smegma is smegma. An enigma. I do think these resources will contribute to --------------> YOUR <----------------- overall good karma. If not, you can pass them along. I don't think there's any penalty for passing bad karma along, just for generating it. Having said that, light your candles/incense/desk lamps and avail yourselves of: The Page of Anxiety http://ic.net/~kottca/ (Erica, check the link, "Utah's Worst Drivers.") The Periodic Table of the Condiments http://www.math.grin.edu/~hamilton/fnord/condiments.html More or less funny, depending, than other periodic tables (elements, mixology, birds, presidents, fruits and nuts, and elephants [which always cracks me up] http://www.intranet.csupomona.edu/~jcclark/more/elephant.html ). By the way, The Periodic Table of Poetry http://www.superdeluxe.com/elemental/ is still looking for poems on scandium, vanadium, manganese, germanium, ruthenium, rhodium, indium, tellurium, xenon through holmium (praseodymium gone unpoesied? gods!), thulium through hafnium, rhenium, osmium, thalium, polomium, astatine, actinium through proactinium, berkelium (no!), californium (double no!!!), and fermium through meitnerium. Emergency Spanish Phrases http://www.math.grin.edu/~hamilton/fnord/spanish.html The Worldwide Institute for the Preservation of Everything http://www.dungeon.com:80/~weaver/ (Includes polymer coating for the planet, the millennium stocktake, protective satellite force field, and more) The Balloon Hat Experience (Currently my second-favorite Web site.) http://www.balloonhat.com/ Earth Coincidences Network (created with NotePad!!!) http://www.coincidence.net/index.html Elan Farlander's Random Alias Generator http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Cottage/6312/ CSETI http://www.cseti.com/ Center for Weird Studies http://www.fnord.org/html/cws.html (See the hard drive compression testing [with treestump and sledgehammer], and links to Tesla coil, Van de Graff generator, ball lightning, capacitor discharge, trebuchet, potato gun, fun with grapes, blowtorched Pop-Tarts, the exploding whale, marshmallow bunny tests, and other high-tech/home-science pages) Documentation and Diagrams of the Atomic Bomb http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/neutronics/todd/nuc.bomb.html (Why shouldn't you know what Bangladesh knows?) Bastard Help Desk Guy From Hell http://23ae.onestop.net/bastard/help0.html For those of you not terribly familiar with Discordian subculture, this version of the sacred canonical text is a good place to start: Swedish translation of the Principia Discordia http://hem.passagen.se/max33wat/ The Flat Earth Society http://www.flat-earth.org/ The Church of Common Sense http://www.angelfire.com/co/COMMONSENSE/sheol.html The Vicious Deer Page http://ic.net/~kottca/vdeer/index.htm Thought Crime http://deoxy.org/tcrime.htm Chunk 666 (chopper bikes, temperance league, and disinformation cabal) http://www.reed.edu/~karl/chunk/ Stuff by Chris King (best Gnostic site I've run across, ever) http://matu1.math.auckland.ac.nz/~king/Preprints/book/genesis.htm d|i|s|i|n|f|o|r|m|a|t|i|o|n http://www.disinfo.com The Church of Spam http://www.grapevinenet.com/swiggy/index.htm And my favorite URL of the century, even more than the one with all the Simpsons episodes catalogued, summarized, quoted, and commented-upon: The Bureau of Atomic Tourism http://www.oz.net/~chrisp/atomic.html Go directly to the entry on the Trinity Test Site, and watch your Surreal-O-Meter pin in the red zone with the first photo: http://www.oz.net/~chrisp/trinity.htm Enjoy. That is an order. p m 2323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323232323 president, bavarian illuminati motorcycle club http://www.bimc.org/ pagan goddess, priestess of mercury, daughter of demeter-by-the-sea ...seek balance...ride safe...wear your goddamn helmet..............o%o> From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Sep 20 11:45:18 1999 -0400 Received: from net.bio.net (net.bio.net [198.94.52.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16636 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:45:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA20504 for symbios-list; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA20492; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909201548.IAA20492@net.bio.net> To: nobody@net.bio.net X-Really-To: symbios@net.bio.net Newsgroups: bionet.biology.symbiosis Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:32:53 +0200 From: Hans Christian Weber Subject: Re: TICS Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2787 Ladies and Gentlemen, dear Friends and Colleagues: I was very pleased at the positive response I received after sending the first announcement of the Third International Congress on Symbiosis. Interested scientists from all over the world are looking forward to attend the TICS at the Philipps-University, Marburg, Germany. Now, it is my pleasure to forward to you the 2nd Announcement as an enclosure- if you have the possibility of internet connection, you will find the same (and some more) information in our homepage: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~b_morpho/symbio.html Also, filling in the forms for registration and presentation allows you to directly apply for the TICS! If you don't like to use the internet for application, you may also print the page and send them to us via 'snail mail'. If you do not have internet connection but email, please, ask for the second announcement by email: weberh@mailer.uni-marburg.de If you know a colleague who could be interested to attend our Congress, please draw his attention to the TICS and the information contained herein. We are convinced that A: all of us will be enriched by the different contributions on symbiosis B: you will have an interesting and enjoyable week in Marburg with the possibility for discussions in a relaxed atmosphere of German "Gemuetlichkeit". C: you will say after the congress that you had a well-spent time! On behalf of the session chairs, my staff and students too, I am very pleased to welcome you. Dr. Hans Christian Weber Professor of Botany Chair, 3rd International Congress on Symbiosis -- Prof. Dr. Hans Christian Weber Philipps-Universitaet/Fb Biologie -Spezielle Botanik und Mykologie- 35032 Marburg -GERMANY- Tel: ++49 (0)6421 2822091 homepage: http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~b_morpho/weber.html From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 16:47:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22648 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27287 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:45:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27281 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13106 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id MAA15501 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990920120425.00baec10@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: mark2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:45:13 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Lipson Subject: "Biotechnology companies face new foe: the Internet" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2788 Biotechnology companies face new foe: the Internet By Bill Lambrecht Post-Dispatch Washington Bureau WASHINGTON - Analysts at Deutsche Bank in Germany came up with some grim conclusions this summer about the financial prospects for genetically modified crops, saying companies such as Monsanto were losing battle after battle. A few years ago, the German report never would have traveled outside the rarefied air of global investors. But that was before the World Wide Web. This month, a consultant in Idaho arranged for the bank analysis to be posted on the Web, and in three days, thousands of people had downloaded the 25-page report and further disseminated it around the globe. Critics, farmers and people still making up their minds about the new technology had a new piece of information. The Internet is enabling mobilization like never before and, in the process, giving biotechnology companies fits. In recent months, St. Louis-based Monsanto Co. and its rivals in the new science of genetically engineering food have watched in dismay as pockets of protest have mushroomed. Europe and Japan are demanding the labeling of modified foods. A trade war is brewing between the United States and Europe. American farmers are wondering whether to continue sowing tens of millions of acres with gene-altered seeds. What is behind the recent developments? More people, especially Europeans, are raising questions about environmental safety, potential health effects and the power of the companies to determine the nature of food. But perhaps no single factor looms larger in biotechnology's tumble than the role of the Internet. The Web has given critics and skeptics the arena to post studies, opinions and vitriol for the world to consume. E-mail and listserves -- electronic mailing lists -- enable activists to work with one another and to exchange scraps of information instantly. All the activity leaves the impression, real or imagined, of a vibrant global movement. The "life science" companies and biotechnology devotees use the Internet, too, and in time they hope that it will play a key role in convincing the world that biotechnology can yield food that is not only safe, but better. But as it stands, one powerful new technology may be functioning to stem the growth of another powerful new technology. The Idaho consultant who distributed the German report, Charles Benbrook, contends that people who had misgivings in the past about farm and food policies had no means to link up and reinforce their beliefs. The Internet has changed all that. "Activists can transfer fresh and important information around the world with speed and ease," Benbrook said. "And that's something we've never experienced before." Changing policy Until last year, the most public responses received by the Department of Agriculture on a new rule was 7,000. Then Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman asked Americans to tell him what they thought of a new organic foods policy that would let food that was genetically engineered, irradiated or fertilized with sludge carry the government's new "organic" label. More than 250,000 people responded, mostly by e-mail, and the vast majority said it was a terrible idea. Under the nearly completed rules, genetically engineered food in the United States won't be labeled as organic. The Internet is becoming an important factor in politics and public policy debates on a host of issues. Until recently, interest groups usually consisted of associations with national memberships and slick magazines. Now, with the Internet, people can mobilize and pressure governments with the push of a button. "It changes the presumptions of representative democracy," said Phil Noble, a political consultant and founder of PoliticsOnline. "I think the Internet is going to do for public policy what the telephone did for lobbying." People can be mobilized, too, in ways that don't give a true picture of public sentiment. "In literally a matter of hours, I can create an interest group of tens of thousands on whatever my issue is right now, and mobilize them to send mail, e-mail or even rotten eggs," Noble said. Political scientist Michael Cornfield of George Washington University said "cyberlobbying" soon will dominate grass-roots organizing because of its speed and low cost. "It won't level the playing field between those who don't buy access and those who do, but it will make it easier for people to be involved in grass-roots lobbying," he said. Anti-genetic engineering forces seem to be finding it easy right now. A PR headache With a staff of five in the United States and Canada, the Rural Advancement Foundation International has about 30,000 fewer employees than Monsanto. Yet RAFI's "Terminator" campaign has created a monumental public relations headache for Monsanto and triggered anti-biotechnology sentiments around the world. The Terminator is the RAFI-coined name for a genetic technology that renders seeds sterile so they can't be saved for the next crop. That way, farmers must buy more modified seeds and pay the additional "technology fee." The sterile-seed invention was patented last year by the U.S. government and a Mississippi seed company that Monsanto is acquiring. Using the Internet, RAFI has persuaded some of the world's leading agriculture researchers and even the biotechnology-friendly Rockefeller Foundation to condemn the Terminator on the grounds that it is unfair to low-income farmers and might even be harmful if farmers planted them unknowingly. RAFI's Hope Shand said that the Internet has dramatically increased her organization's power to reach people. In a recent 16-month period, she said, RAFI had 1.3 million "hits" on its Web site, from which visitors downloaded 455,000 pages. "The Terminator campaign would never have been possible without the spread of information on the Internet," she said. Another Internet campaign torpedoed an effort by Monsanto in Bangladesh. Last year, Monsanto agreed to give $150,000 to the Grameen Bank, which is known internationally for giving loans to poor farmers. But after the bank received a barrage of e-mail critical of Monsanto, the arrangement was scrapped. Distorting reality? Dozens of groups - from the Union of Concerned Scientists to direct-action proponents such as Greenpeace - use the Internet to work against biotechnology. Friends of the Earth and some of the biggest environmental advocacy groups wage online global campaigns. An Internet drive to force mandatory labeling of modified food is being waged out of Washington state. Crop saboteurs, such as genetiX snowball in Britain, hook up with the Direct Action Media Network and organizations that take a militant approach to advocacy. Then there's Mutanto, a Web site that parodies Monsanto's. Instead of Monsanto's slogan of "Food, Health and Hope," Mutanto offers "Fraud, Stealth and Hype." The critics of genetic food are simply exploiting their Internet advantage, said Michael Hanson of Consumers Union, which publishes Consumer Reports. "The other side has just as much access, but they're just not as good at it." The "other side" thinks that the anti-biotechnology campaigners succeed on the Internet through distortion: distorting the facts about safety and creating the false impression that consumers, not just activists, worry about modified food. A relatively few activists have been able to create a sense of movement that didn't exist before the Internet, biotechnology companies say. As a result, news outlets and others believe there's more out there than there really is, even though some of the anti-biotechnology sites get very few visitors. "It's a dual-edged sword," Monsanto's Jay Byrne said. "On one hand, the Internet allows people with opinions or even spurious facts to share that information broadly. But at the same time, it allows the public access to scientific and academic information that so far has been generally supportive of the technology. The challenge lies in discerning between the two." Monsanto uses the Web aggressively and has won awards for it, including one this month from an agribusiness magazine for its French Web page. The company tailors individual sites around the world to combat anti-genetic food sentiments. In the United Kingdom, Monsanto's Web site went so far as to offer a link to Greenpeace and post critical press accounts of itself to stimulate debate. Monsanto uses its British site to sponsor a public dialogue on the outbreak of European incidents of crop destruction by protesters. By the same token, detractors accuse Monsanto of exaggerating in cyberspace biotechnology's potential to feed hungry people. Despite the Internet's power and potential, both sides in the biotechnology debate concede that it will come down eventually to people sorting through issues themselves just like they've always done. Benbrook, the Idaho consultant, said, "If the public doesn't believe what is said, the fanciest Web sites and the biggest public relations campaigns in the world won't amount to much." Organic Farming Research Foundation Mark Lipson, Policy Program Director ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670 PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 16:47:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22652 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25212 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:39:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from unlserve.unl.edu (root@unlserve.unl.edu [129.93.1.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25186 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:39:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pmurray.unl.edu (ag-pmurray.unl.edu [129.93.224.80]) by unlserve.unl.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA47022; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:36:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:36:03 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990920143942.3cefca5a@unlserve.unl.edu> X-Sender: pmurray@unlserve.unl.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, news@psupena.psu.edu From: Pam Murray Subject: September-October 1999 CSAS Newsletter Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA25196 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2789 September-October 1999 CSAS Newsletter The Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems (CSAS) in the Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources (IANR) at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln (UNL) is an interdisciplinary center formed in 1991 for the purpose of bringing together people and resources to promote an agriculture that is efficient, competitive, profitable, environmentally and socially sustainable for the indefinite future. The newsletters are also available along with other sustainable ag information on our World Wide Web page: http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas Note: The electronic version is not sent to individual e-mail addresses. To be added to the "hard copy" newsletter mailing list beginning with the next bimonthly issue (not sent to overseas addresses), or for questions or comments, contact the newsletter editor, Pam Murray, Coordinator, Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems, PO Box 830949, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, NE 68583-0949, 402-472-2056, fax -4104, e-mail: pmurray1@.unl.edu. Comments about the content or usefulness of this newsletter are always welcome. * * * CONTENTS: NEW ENERGY IN FARMING COMMUNITIES UNIVERSITY ROLE IN BIOTECHNOLOGY: HOW DO WE ASSESS THE RISKS AND BENEFITS? CSAS DIRECTOR RECEIVES HONORARY DEGREE SOOBY NOW AT OFRF NCR SARE REVISED WEB SITE NEW FOOD ETHICS JOURNAL IN 2000 DOE ANNOUNCES NEW WIND ENERGY INITIATIVE CONFERENCE CELEBRATES SUSTAINABLE AG COMING OF AGE IN 2000 RESOURCES COMING EVENTS DID YOU KNOW... * * * NEW ENERGY IN FARMING COMMUNITIES Current crops and cropping systems in Nebraska and throughout the country reflect the northern European heritage of the majority of our farmers. The farming industry has evolved during the past two centuries, with major changes in types of technology, additions of pesticides and fertilizers, and increases in productivity per unit of labor. Although the systems have become more refined, we are essentially growing the same crops using an industrial approach. With current commodity prices, there is little hope for an improved economic situation in agriculture, and many farmers are understandably discouraged. Here's a new source of innovation and encouragement. In an August 12, 1999 Wall Street Journal article titled "Immigrants See Hope in Farming," Scott Kilman and Joel Millman report that opportunity is being grasped by immigrants to the U.S. from developing countries. Often coming from areas where land is scarce and economic systems do not allow or encourage entrepreneurs, new people are bringing energy and ideas into agriculture. The authors say that "American agriculture is receiving the biggest infusion of new blood since the original wave of immigrant farmers from Europe played out several generations ago." The innovations span the spectrum from vegetables to fruit crops, fish to rice, and ethnic specialty crops to dairies. Examples in the article include a former migrant farm worker from Mexico who now grows 135 acres of apple, peach, and cherry trees in Washington state. There are more than 1,000 Laotians farming in California, and Cambodians growing vegetables and fish in Massachusetts. Vietnamese fishermen are growing rice in Texas. Dutch farmers are starting dairies in Texas, Michigan, and Washington. A recent article in Nebraska Farmer magazine described a Portuguese dairyman who had recently moved his herd to Nebraska. The Wall Street Journal article continues with a description of the reception of these immigrants into rural communities. Farm equipment and input dealers welcome the infusion of people and energy into farming. A service manager at an equipment dealership in Washington state recently took Spanish classes and wants to hire bilingual employees. University of Minnesota is teaching Hmong, Somali, and Ethiopian farmers about pest management, soil fertility, and marketing. The head of the program says, "The countryside was built on their kind of hard work." Most immigrant farmers are willing to work hard and expect no handout from the government, partly because this expectation is not part of their prior farming culture and also because they are not primarily growing federally-subsidized commodities. The specialty vegetable and fruit crops, small animals, fish, mushroom, and other niche products are not part of the federal program. Many also have difficulty getting loans. Thus, they are infusing this new energy, work ethic, and enthusiasm through their own efforts and not through subsidies. The authors point out that many immigrants are pursuing their own agrarian roots. There is a growing market for unique products, organic foods, and ethnic specialties, and these can often be grown on small land areas with major investments of time and labor by the farmer and family. Often they bring with them a serious land ethic, one which also came with the Europeans who invested in land because it would "always be there," unlike other types of investment. What better way to establish a conservation and stewardship ethic in the rural areas of this country? Is there a message for Nebraskans? Given the progression toward ever larger investments in land and machinery and reliance on a few key commodities, it may be increasingly difficult for many farmers to make a profit no matter how hard they work. Crops our ancestors brought from Europe are not the only options. While immigrants can learn a language and a new culture from those already in our rural areas, we can learn from them about new crops, intensive systems, and innovative ways to make a living and establish a quality of life through agriculture. Submitted by Charles Francis UNIVERSITY ROLE IN BIOTECHNOLOGY: HOW DO WE ASSESS THE RISKS AND BENEFITS? Fifth in a Series. There is growing debate about the emerging role of universities in research and applications of biotechnology. Current interest and investment in production and use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) have sparked a revolution in university research laboratories and fields. Perhaps no single set of new techniques and potential technologies has caused such a substantial short-term shift in focus of people and resources in universities. We hope that encouraging debate within the university community and among our clients will help inform people of the issues and aid in charting a rational strategy for the future. What are the specific risks? Potential risks from the use of transgenic organisms (often called GMOs) were elaborated at the June meeting of the National Agricultural Biotechnology Council (see CSAS newsletter, July-August 1999). Gene escape, especially through the transfer of pollen from modified plants and pollination of wild relatives of crops, is being widely debated by geneticists and ecologists. Most support the conclusion that the risk of escape and establishment of these new genes is low, but not impossible. Some conclude that even a small level of risk is unacceptable, and that a precautionary approach, including much more testing, would be a prudent path. To the issue of wide crosses or transfer of genes among drastically different species, many plant breeders argue that this is a logical extension of conventional breeding techniques used for decades in the search for genes that control specific traits, for example, stress tolerance, insect resistance, or grain quality. Others such as Wes Jackson, cytogeneticist and futurist, draw the tolerance line at moving genes within major families, like the grasses. Outside these limits, such as moving a flounder gene to a tomato for cold tolerance, he suggests that we are creating genetic combinations with which humans and other animals have no evolutionary selection experience, thus introducing unacceptable risk. More immediately tangible than these potential risks to the ecosystem are the possible risks to humans who consume the food from transgenic plants. This is the expressed concern from people in EU countries and others around the world in opposition to GMO-based foods, and the reason that major food processors and supermarket chains in Europe have recently decided to only use and market non-GMO grains for the near future. We have been assured by the companies that market seed that the productsplant-based foods or livestock fed on GMO grainsare no different than those that come from conventional crops. A majority of people in the U.S. seem to accept these claims or are indifferent toward such concerns. Perhaps this reflects greater trust in the commercial sector, general acceptance of new technologies, or apathy on the part of consumers who are interested only in getting food that is convenient and cheap. In contrast, people in Europe have a much higher level of respect for food, expect to pay more for quality, and see food as more integral to their culture. They may also have a higher level of scepticism about the assurances of large corporations that conduct their own safety testing and have greater allegiance to their stockholders than to clients who consume the products. Concern about food safety may be associated with the impersonal relationship of consumers with this unknown source of food, and with the entire concept of a global food system dominated by a few multinational corporations and lacking in any local responsibility or control. Other risks that may or may not be important to consumers include the ownership of genetic material (see CSAS newsletter, May-June 1999), issues of equity in the availability of food products or the benefits of research, and the consolidation of land resources and farming activities in a smaller number of large farms. On the first issue, major purchases of seed companies by multinational chemical corporations have removed their ownership from communities, states, or even nations, and patenting of new varieties restricts their use to those willing to pay royalties for technology. On the second, Jeffrey Sachs recently said in The Economist (14 August 1999) that "inequalities of income across the globe are actually exceeded by the inequalities of scientific output and technological innovation." He further observed that "global science is directed by the rich countries for the rich-country markets," and found that technology does not easily cross the "ecological divide" between temperate and tropical countries. On the last issue, we know that a growing proportion of food is produced on a smaller number of farms, a trend that maintains cheap food but causes the decline and death of many rural communities. What is the university's role? As a research and education organization, the university has an obligation to study and describe objectively how these technologies work and their potential impacts on production and society. In research on transgenic plants we can assure less potential bias if the work is financed by sources other than those that will benefit from the results, thus government or foundation support is far preferable to that from the seed or chemical industries. It is essential that the new crop plants are studied as components of systems, and not in isolated conditions of the laboratory. Recent research on low concentrations of nitrate together with insecticide and herbicide residues shows that the "cocktail" of these water contaminants can cause cancer in test animals at chemical rates below what is considered safe for the individual compounds, a result also described in the 1962 Rachel Carson book Silent Spring. This underlines the importance of testing in the context of real-world systems. It is also essential to sort out the claims of benefits of any new technologies, including GMO crops, and to determine who will benefit in the long term. In the past we have often concentrated research on the immediate production and economic consequences of introducing a single new variety or production practice, without taking into account the effect on the entire production system and community. The implicit assumption has been that higher levels of production meant greater income and thus benefits for the producer as well as the rest of the industry. Appropriate social science methods exist to study impacts of technology, and we are obligated to use these before introducing or promoting new technologies. A comprehensive look at transgenic crops, how and where they will be grown, and the impact on the food system can help us determine the distribution of benefits. For example, multi-generation farm families that have been driven from their livelihood by consolidation in agriculture would scarcely be seen as beneficiaries of large-farm specific technologies, even though these same changes could result in cheaper food for urban dwellers. New crop varieties that compel a grower to use a predetermined package of chemical inputs are seen as a step toward control by corporations of an "assembly-line, industrial model" of agricultural production that removes decision making and independence from the farmer. None of these issues has been given high priority in the past by plant breeders developing new varieties. Increased awareness of the broader economic and social issues is causing scientists to take a longer look at the types of technology being developed. We are also starting to assess the costs and benefits in a more comprehensive and holistic manner. This emerging focus by universities will help us continue to provide valuable service to agriculture as well as to society. Submitted by Charles Francis CSAS DIRECTOR RECEIVES HONORARY DEGREE Charles Francis, CSAS Director since 1991, traveled back to the area of his recently completed sabbatic to receive an honorary Doctor of Science degree from Helsinki University. Francis was Visiting NOVA Professor in Agroecology assigned to the Agricultural University of Norway from June 1998-June 1999. During that time he worked with a regional team to develop a new M.S. curriculum in Agroecology. This work involved extensive travel in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and the Baltic countries. The honorary degree was awarded in recognition of his contributions to agriculture and education in Finland and the Nordic/Baltic Region. SOOBY NOW AT OFRF Jane Sooby, formerly with the University of Nebraska and the Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society, began working for the Organic Farming Research Foundation (OFRF) in June. In her new position she offers resources to assist people in planning organic farming research, including contacts with local extension and/or university cooperators, help with literature reviews on the background of research questions, assistance in shaping production questions into research projects, and tips on experimental design and data collection. She invites farmers, ranchers, and researchers to contact her for further information on applying for organic farming research grants at OFRF, PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061, 831-426-6606, jane@ofrf.org. Note: OFRF has increased its ceiling for individual grants to $10,000. The next deadline for submitting proposals for organic farming research and education projects is January 15, 2000. More information is available at http://www.ofrf.org/. NCR SARE REVISED WEB SITE The North Central Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (NCR SARE) program invites farmers and ranchers, researchers, educators and others interested in North Central region sustainable agriculture to access http://www.sare.org/ncrsare for information on research results, competitive grants, and other resources to support profitable, environmentally sound farming and ranching systems. Users can find the latest information about NCR SARE activities and programs, including competitive grants, educational opportunities, sustainable agriculture resources, and links to products from the national SARE office and SARE's Sustainable Agriculture Network (SAN). Features include: - application forms for competitive grant programs; - helpful tips and links for grant applicants; - information sorted by North Central states, including links to funded SARE projects, state SARE contacts, and lists of and links to state organizations; - newsletters, fact sheets, and links to other publications and resources from SARE; - links to the national SARE program and SAN, which offer a variety of sustainable ag information products and a searchable database of SARE projects; - links to organizations and programs nationwide; - information on NCR SARE's November 1999 marketing conference; - coming soon, a calendar of educational events and resources developed in NCR SARE's Professional Development Program. Contact Lisa Bauer at 402-472-0265 or lbauer2@unl.edu for more information. NEW FOOD ETHICS JOURNAL IN 2000 Food Ethics Review is a new international refereed journal for all who are involved with food at a professional level, including those in agricultural and food related business and commerce, academia and research, government and public bodies. The journal will serve as an essential forum for ideas and discussion on ethical and moral issues in relation to food, raising the level of debate at every stage in the food chain from primary production to the consumer. It will adopt an interdisciplinary approach to the subject of food and publish original and authoritative research, review articles, viewpoint letters and commentaries from diverse areas including: agriculture and food production; biosciences; environmental and public health; food science and technology; food marketing and retailing; philosophy, politics and economics; the humanitarian and social sciences. The Editor is David Early at Harper Adams University, and Associate Editors are Margaret Britz at University of Melbourne, Australia, and Magni Martens at The Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University, Denmark. Food Ethics Review will be published quarterly in 2000, with the first issue in March. For more information contact Tom Gold-Blyth, tom.gold-blyth@blacksci.co.uk. DOE ANNOUNCES NEW WIND ENERGY INITIATIVE At the annual conference of the wind energy industry in June, DOE Secretary Richardson announced a new initiative to promote wind energy projects, with three main goals: supply at least 5% of the nation's electricity needs by 2020; double the number of states having more than 20 megawatts of wind capacity to 16 by 2005, and triple the number to 24 by 2010; and increase the federal government's use of wind generated electricity to 5% by 2010. Nearly $1.2 million in DOE grants will go to states, cities, and wind technology companies for small wind turbine projects in 10 states across the country. For details, see http://home.doe.gov/news/releases99/junpr/pr99153.htm. CONFERENCE CELEBRATES SUSTAINABLE AG COMING OF AGE IN 2000 "Farming and Ranching for Profit, Stewardship, and Community" is the theme of a major sustainable agriculture conference to be held in Portland, Oregon on March 7-9, 2000. Nationally-known speakers, producers, researchers, agricultural extension agents, and others from the western U.S. and around the nation will share their sustainable agriculture successes, experiences, and research results. The event is sponsored by the USDA Western Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (SARE) program, with major contributions from several land-grant universities and the federal sustainable agriculture effort. The event will showcase techniques, experts and enterprises that demonstrate why "sustainable agriculture will continue to grow" in the next century and be adopted by all types of producers and agricultural enterpriseslarge and small, corporate and owner-operated. Confirmed keynote speakers include Virginia producer and author Joel Salatin, who will talk about how to increase farm and ranch profits through innovative livestock and ecological practices. Salatin, author of Pastured Poultry Profits and Salad Bar Beef, will also conduct a workshop. In addition, Oregonian Karla Chambers, co-owner and marketing director of Stahlbush Island Farms, will discuss changes in consumer demand for sustainably grown foods. A day-long tour will give attendees on-the-ground experience with prospering Portland-area farms, direct-marketing approaches, eco-labeling successes, and youth and community efforts that relate to local agriculture. Issues about farming in the midst of urban sprawl and regulation will also be illustrated. The conference will highlight the methods and outcomes of diverse research and education projects funded by SARE including university-based, on-farm and producer-directed work. Innovative marketing strategies and examples will be shared, and the role of non-profit organizations and public policy in promoting sustainable agriculture will also be discussed. The benefits of involving farmers and ranchers in agricultural research is another key element of the program. Specific program topics include: irrigated and dryland cropping systems; grazing and livestock operations; innovative marketing strategies, including eco-labeling and direct-marketing; soil quality; biological pest control; vegetable, tree fruit, wine grape and other crops; and more. The program will also offer a number of information-sharing opportunities. For more information about the conference, or to register, contact Gina Hashagen, Oregon State University, at hashageg@bcc.orst.edu, 541-737-5477. Conference information is also online at http://wsare.usu.edu/2000. RESOURCES Organic Wheat Production Handbook. The 60-page book is free, but there is $10 copy/s&h fee. Provides practical information for growing high-quality organic wheat. Each section addresses specific management issues such as: planting practices, growth and development, nutrient management, grain protein content and nitrogen, irrigation management, harvest suggestions. While written for New Mexico farmers, most of the information is relevant for organic wheat production throughout the U.S. Send checks payable to: Kernel of Life, c/o Organic Wheat Production Handbook, 200-B Callecita Place, Santa Fe, NM 87501. Legal Guide for Farm Marketers. $20. Explores legal issues regarding direct marketing farm products, contracts, liability and insurance, processing and marketing of meat and poultry, labor and employment, community-supported agriculture, farmers markets, and local food processing rules. Drake University Agricultural Law Center, 2507 University Ave., Des moines, IA 50311-4505, 515-271-2947. Sharing the Harvest: A Guide to Community-Supported Agriculture. $24.95 + $3 s&h. This how-to book by Elizabeth Henderson with Robyn VanEn (who died before it was finished) covers getting started, finances, and legalities of a CSA. Food growing, handling, and distribution are discussed. Chelsea Green Publishing Co., PO Box 428, White River Junction, VT 05001, 1-800-639-4099, http://www.chelseagreen.com. You can also order directly from Elizabeth Henderson, 2218 Welcher Rd, Newark, NY 14513, 315-331-9029. Sustainable Agriculture Task Force Report. Issued Summer 1999. This is one of the reports from the President's Council on Sustainable Development. Copies of PCSD Reports may be obtained by calling 1-800-363-3732, or may be purchased from the U. S. Government Printing Office by calling 202-512-1800. Many are also at the PCSD Web site: http://www.whitehouse.gov/PCSD/. Greenbook '98: A Diversity of Tools. Free. Summarizes knowledge gained through innovative or experimental farming projects in Minnesota. Includes project description, results, management tips, and additional resources related to more than 40 projects funded by the Energy and Sustainable Agriculture Program. Projects focus on alternative crops, cropping systems and soil fertility, fruits and vegetables, livestock, or whole farm systems. Energy and Sustainable Agriculture Program, Minnesota Department of Agriculture, 90 West Plato Boulevard, Saint Paul, MN 55107, 651-296-7673, prescott.bergh@state.mn.us, http://www.mda.state.mn.us. The full transcript of a debate between Dennis Avery and Joel Salatin aired July 28, 1999 on WSVA radio in Harrisonburg, VA can be found at the Sustainable Farming Connection Web site, http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/. Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market. $42 + $5.50 s&h. This 280-page book containing 91 illustrations introduces the full range of processes for moderate-scale vegetable production using ecological practices that minimize the need for synthetic inputs and maximize stewardship of resources. Provides practical information on selecting a farm site, planning and record keeping, marketing options, and systems for starting, planting, protecting, and harvesting crops. NRAES-104, Coop. Ext., 152 Riley-Robb Hall, Ithaca, NY 14853-5701, 607-255-7654, nraes@cornell.edu, http://www.nraes.org A Guide to Successful Direct Marketing. $12. Includes developing a business plan, advertising, quality control, product display techniques and pricing. Make checks payable to T.E.E.F. (Texas Extension Education Foundation) and mail to Tracy Davis, Texas Ag. Extension Service, Texas A&M University, 464 Blocker Bldg., College Station, TX 77843-2124, 409-845-1772, tdavis@tamu.edu. Fresh Produce Marketing (B-5053). Free. Describes wholesale markets for producers who cannot sell all products directly and are getting large enough to sell to restaurants or wholesalers. Covers market research, post-harvest steps, calculating costs, a developing a marketing plan. Order from Tracy Davis (see above). COMING EVENTS Contact CSAS office for more information. 1999 Nov. 10-11 Farmer Cooperatives 2000, Kansas City, MO Nov. 11-13 Northeast Community Supported Agriculture Conference II, Tamiment, PA Nov. 19-20 Developing Agricultural Marketing Skills for the New Millennium, Lincoln, NE Dec. 6-7 Adding Value Through Environmental Management and Marketing: Opportunities for Food Producers, Processors and Retailers, Madison, WI, http://www.iatp.org/labels/envcommodities/ Dec. 9-11 Acres USA Conference, Minneapolis, MN 2000 Jan. 5-6 Mid-America Fruit Growers Conference, St. Joseph, MO Jan. 7-8 Great Plains Regional Vegetable Conference, St. Joseph, MO Jan 19-22 20th Annual Ecological Farming Conference, Pacific Grove, CA, http://www.csa-efc.org Feb. 26 Nebraska Sustainable Agriculture Society Annual Meeting, Aurora, NE Mar. 7-9 Farming and Ranching for Profit, Stewardship, and Community Conference, Portland, OR For additional events, see: http://www.sare.org/wreg/view_notice_adm.pl http://www.agnic.org/mtg/ DID YOU KNOW... In August the Berkeley, California school board adopted a new food philosophy that includes a contract with a San Francisco-based distributor to purchase 700 pieces of organic fruit a day to stock the snack program. There is also a mandate for an organic garden at every school to defray some of the added expenses of serving pesticide-free foods. "GMOs have become the albatross around the neck of farmers on issues of trade, labeling, testing, certification, segregation, market availability and agribusiness concentration. Until all these issues are answered, it is best for production agriculture to examine alternatives to planting GMOs," said Gary Goldberg, Chief Executive Officer of the American Corn Growers Association. See the 8/24/99 press release at http://www.acga.org/news/. Northampton County's farms and open lands contributed over four times as much money to the county's tax base in 1998 as they used in services, according to a study released 8/10/99 by the American Farmland Trust. The study also found that revenues from residential development were not enough to cover the cost of services demanded by that land use. See the press release at http://www.farmland.org/news/index.htm. *********************** Pam Murray, Coordinator Center for Grassland Studies and Center for Sustainable Agricultural Systems PO Box 830949 University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68583-0949 phone: 402-472-9383 fax: 402-472-4104 e-mail: pmurray1@unl.edu http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/cgs http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/csas To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 16:52:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22727 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28723 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:49:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28696 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13197 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf8.tychonet.com (ofrf8.tychonet.com [205.179.36.8]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id MAA16383 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:48:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990920124929.00b297a0@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: mark2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:49:45 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Lipson Subject: "Biotech battle opens way for test-makers." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2790 September 19,1999 Biotech battle opens way for test-makers. By Robert Steyer Of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch * As those who produce and store gene-altered crops struggle to ease public concerns and find a way to move forward, a new market is beginning to emerge for companies that can offer tools that tell consumers where their food is coming from. Starting next month, when the grain shipping season heats up, more than 300 trucks filled with soybeans, corn and other crops will rumble through the streets of St. Louis each day, bringing their bounty to the ADM Growmark grain elevator. But this busy season will get busier, as more U.S. elevators start separating genetically modified grains from standard ones, a response to growing concerns about biotechnology, most notably in Europe. For elevators like the ADM Growmark facility here, which serves export markets, that means the conga line of trucks will deposit some grain at separate storage areas for shipment on special barges. Segregating crops is causing uncertainty in the U.S. farm and food industries. But one thing is clear: The battle over biotech means more companies will test their products more often. Although this uproar is becoming a burden for grain elevators and a bane for gene giants such as Monsanto Co., it's a boon for genetic testing companies. Some tests resemble over-the-counter pregnancy tests. Others are akin to DNA fingerprinting used by law enforcement. Their common goal: to make sure genetically altered grains aren't mixed with conventional ones. Unless U.S. food companies segregate their produce and prove they can offer biotech-free grains, they run the risk of having food shipments rejected, especially at foreign ports. The companies and trade associations along the U.S. food chain warn that the price of food will rise. They believe biotech foods are safe, but they would rather incur extra cost than consumers' wrath. If test-makers have gauged the market and public sentiment correctly, their tests soon will be standard for the people who sell food, process it, store it, ship it and grow it. "There's no escaping the fact that many consumers are concerned about genetically modified organisms," said Dwight Denham, global business unit manager for Strategic Diagnostics of Newark, Del., a maker of test kits for gene-altered crops. "It's an issue that food companies will have to deal with." Creators of the new tests claim they can overcome doubts that widespread tests are costly, time-consuming and aren't practical. "Since 1996, the (agribusiness) industry and the U.S. Department of Agriculture have been saying there are no practical tests," said Robert Oates, vice president of marketing for Genetic ID, of Fairfield, Iowa, another tester of biotech foods. "There's been interest in the industry to make it seem like testing is unreliable or difficult or expensive." The interest in testing is a direct result of a consumer backlash against biotech foods, especially in Europe, where people and politicians are calling for labeling of these foods or outright bans. This opposition has reverberated through the food system -- to foreign grocers, food companies, regulators and politicians -- as well as to some other big U.S. export markets, including Japan. Domestic biotech critics are stepping up their efforts to restrain the planting of biotech crops or to promote labeling of foods with genetically modified ingredients. At the same time, however, U.S. farmers planted a record number of crops that are altered to tolerate some herbicides and to battle pests. How farmers will react next year is a mystery. But the food industry is taking no chances. "There's a lot of desire for nongenetically enhanced grains in Japan and Europe," said Carla Miller, a spokeswoman for Archer Daniels Midland, the big grain processor based in Decatur, Ill., which pays farmers extra for some biotech-free soybeans. ADM recently told suppliers to segregate biotech crops, often called genetically modified organisms. "We'll be testing for (biotech) soybeans," Miller said. "We will take GMOs. We also are alerting farmers that there is a market for non-GMO crops." Members of Growmark, a seed co-operative in Bloomington, Ill., are buying a new kit to test for Roundup Ready soybeans, which are altered to tolerate Monsanto Co.'s Roundup herbicide. A farmer can use the test in his field with a piece of a soybean plant. A grain elevator can use the test with bean samples. The test's expense "will be very, very insignificant compared to the cost of segregating the beans," said Larry Keene, Growmark's director of value-enhanced products. Genetic testing in the seed business isn't new. For example, Pioneer Hi-Bred International, the world's biggest seed corn company, has done genetic fingerprinting of seeds and plants for nearly 20 years. The tests determine whether unique traits from conventional breeding show up uniformly in the company's seeds. They also identify genetic markers that could help the company breed seeds that resist some diseases. The tests also help protect against someone using Pioneer seed illegally, said Stephen Smith, germ plasm security director for the company based in Des Moines, Iowa. Pioneer used these tests as the basis for suing other seed companies, including a Monsanto subsidiary, last October. Monsanto denies the charges. Companies or consumers, can order laboratory tests that can check for gene-altered ingredients in foods ranging from infant formulas to taco shells to corn muffin mixes. That's what the magazine Consumer Reports did recently, choosing two laboratories to test the DNA -- the genetic blueprint -- of foods for genetically modified ingredients. To insure accuracy, the labs tested multiple samples of many products. The test for each sample cost $200 to $300 and took one to two days, a Consumer Reports spokesman said. Consumers and farmers don't have the time or money to conduct such tests. And until the biotech debate intensified, the food industry hadn't had much need for fast, flexible, cheap and on-site genetic tests. Some farmers and grain elevators have segregated crops for years, usually small amounts of "designer grains" such as white corn for tortillas or high-oil corn for animal feed. They are created through conventional breeding and account for perhaps 5 percent of the U.S. corn crop. "That's a lot different than a commodity-based system where all soybeans have been treated alike," said Jim Stitzlein, manager of market development for Consolidated Grain & Barge Co. of Mandeville, La., which owns 60 grain elevators. His company is experimenting with a test kit from Strategic Diagnostics that checks Roundup Ready soybeans, the modified crop that tolerates Monsanto's Roundup herbicide. "It will give us something we hadn't had before," Stitzlein said. "Testing will be an added cost, but it also has value because it helps us manage risk." Companies worry about accidentally mixing gene-altered grains with conventional grains bound for Europe. "If one truckload is a mistake, it spoils the whole (grain) container," Stitzlein said. Many grain elevators have been separating genetically engineered grains by relying on the word of farmers, who certify that their crops are conventional or gene-altered. But farmers can make mistakes. They can forget which fields contain gene-altered crops; they can mix conventional and modified grains. In the case of corn hybrids, their conventional varieties can be cross-pollinated by altered varieties. So grain elevators conduct quality-control tests, sending batches of corn or soybeans to laboratories to check their DNA for genetic modifications. Stitzlein said the tests haven't always been reliable. That's why companies such as Strategic Diagnostics and Genetic ID pitch their products as ways to increase testing convenience and reliability. Whether in a lab or in the field, the tests must avoid or minimize false positives and false negatives. The former is an inaccurate reading that says a gene-altered substance is present; the latter is an erroneous reading that a GMO hasn't been detected. The common themes in the food/crop testing business are immunoassays and DNA analysis. Immunoassays rely on proteins called antibodies that can be engineered to react to a specific substance, producing a yes-no result much as a home pregnancy test that turns a certain color. Strategic Diagnostics specializes in immunoassays. This science has progressed to the point where such tests can identify water pollutants, pesticides and micro-organisms. By changing a test sample size, the immunoassay can be adjusted to detect smaller or larger percentages of a target substance. For example, a grain elevator could prepare a batch of 1,000 soybeans; if one bean was Roundup Ready, the test could come up positive for altered DNA. Yes-no tests take a few minutes. Other immunoassays testing the percentage of gene-altered material in crop sample take several hours. The DNA tests take longer, are more expensive and can't be done in the field or at a grain elevator. They quantify precise amounts of genetic material. Unlike immunoassays, they can detect multiple gene-altered ingredients in a single grain as well as in processed food. Genetic ID focuses on DNA tests, which use chemicals to extract modified DNA from the natural DNA of a specific food. Multiple copies of the DNA are made through a process called polymerase chain reaction. Then the sample is analyzed and the different DNA is counted. Right now, the pace of creating tests is moving slower than the growing -- or creating -- of gene-altered crops. The gene-testing companies are glad to talk, but it's rare for their clients to comment. Monsanto won't discuss its use of technology even though it has a crop-test development and licensing deal with Strategic Diagnostics. Terms were not revealed. Strategic Diagnostics created the Roundup Ready soybean kit, and a kit testing Monsanto's insect-fighting corn is due Oct. 1. Since 1995, Monsanto, other biotech companies and seed producers have used Strategic Diagnostics' technologies to measure the purity of seed varieties. Clients include Delta & Pine Land Co. -- the largest U.S. cotton seed company -- as well as AgrEvo, a giant crop protection company. "I want farmers to know there is no mystery about this," said Kelly Cullum, vice president of sales for Strategic Diagnostics. She said her company is battling what she calls "the three fallacies in agriculture: There is no way to segregate crops; there is no quick test; and the non-GMO market is going to disappear." GENETICALLY ENGINEERED FOODS Organic Farming Research Foundation Mark Lipson, Policy Program Director ph: 831-426-4006 or -6606; fax: 831-426-6670 PO Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 17:59:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24325 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08092 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:12:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07985 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15278 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29110 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:10:58 -0600 Received: from edandsue (dialup0448.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.54.37]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA229250 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:10:57 -0600 From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: Subject: RE: "Biotechnology companies face new foe: the Internet" Ataway Charles!!! Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:09:50 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990920120425.00baec10@mail.scruznet.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2791 Thanks to Charles Benbrook-and others of you who have struggled to get the news out. Corporate spin doctors not-withstanding, the public will shall be done. Reminiscent of the anti-nuke movement, isn't it? Maybe we have a 'butterfly alliance.' Ed Sparling Ag Econ Dept Colorado State University Ft Collins, CO To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 18:14:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24456 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA22032 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:40:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21946 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15708 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA05573; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm5-1.nidlink.com [216.18.141.8]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA02405; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909202138.OAA02405@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:50:10 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Consolidation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2792 The Sept. 13, 1999 "Feedstuffs" has a remarkable lead editorial entitled "U.S. Agriculture needs leaders, not populists, to survive." (Page 8). It states that it is time for ag leaders and farmers to stop complaining and referencing romantic notions re the decline of the family farm. It states -- "Based on the best estimates of analysts, economists and other sources interviewed by this publication, American agriculture must now quickly consolidate all farmers and livestock producers into about 50 production systems...each with its own brands...and several lines..." And then, in a conclusion reminiscent of the Earl Butz-era headline in a now infamous Time Magazine article, "...And the Message to Farmers Is -- Get Big or Get Out!" -- the editorial states -- "However, putting these systems together will be a Rushmorean task that must begin now and be done with a sense of urgency. It is time to say to the voices of anger and fear and resistance that they either need to join the process or get off the mountain." So that settles it I guess. chuck Charles Benbrook 208-263-5236 (voice) Benbrook Consulting Services 208-263-7342 (fax) 5085 Upper Pack River Road benbrook@hillnet.com [e-mail] Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 http://www.pmac.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 19:34:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25553 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:34:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23712 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23663 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (root@eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16590 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU (lamar.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.75]) by eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15502; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:38:53 -0600 Received: from edandsue (dialup0448.PPP.ColoState.EDU [129.82.54.37]) by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA200718; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:38:51 -0600 From: "Ed and Sue Sparling" To: , Subject: RE: Consolidation--Remember what happens to 'Earl Butz' in "Moo?" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:37:44 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <199909202138.OAA02405@enaila.nidlink.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2793 Chuck, et al, With apologies for being flip; I can't resist it. I wonder which economists "Feedstuffs" talked to? Probably Professor Gift (of the Econ Dept at Moo University in the satirical novel "Moo") was among them. Care to venture a guess about who it was that inspired the Professor Gift character? If memory serves me, JK Galbraith had bought into the common wisdom that bigger is better in his "New Industrial State," a book popular in the late 1960's. That thinking has been out of vogue for some time in industrial organization (the part of economics dealing with anti-trust, etc)-and judging from the tendency for modern corporations to spin-off and downsize, current business doesn't really buy the 'get-big-get-out' bromide. Detroit followed that prescription down a blind alley in the 50's and 60's. Looks like the feedlot industry would like US agriculture to emulate it. Ed Sparling To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 20:18:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26234 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25216 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:36:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25192 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17411 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-7-21.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.69]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02026 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:29:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199909202329.SAA02026@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "sanet" Subject: Fw: News Article in Saturday's Star Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:32:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2794 Is our only real problem that we didn't inherit enough money? Apparently the ag economist from Purdue, the land of concrete and iron, thinks so. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range Hog Farmer > > By Norm Heikens Indianapolis Star/News INDIANAPOLIS (Sept. 18, 1999) -- > Meet Jerry Rulon, consolidator. At a time low prices are driving other > farmers to their knees, Rulon is adding to his operation. He snapped up a > bankrupt pig factory in December. And through much of the farm crisis, the > grain farmer has negotiated with prospective landlords to add to the 5,000 > acres he owns and rents in Hamilton and Tipton counties. "I'm a contrary > son of a buck," Rulon says with a hearty laugh. "You always want to expand > at the bottom of the cycle. Farmers like Rulon aren't making the news very > often these days. Hogging the attention are farmers struggling to preserve > their livelihoods in the face of drought, weakened markets and a rapidly > changing industry. But financially secure farmers are just as much a > reality. Purdue University agricultural economist Howard Doster says he > wouldn't be surprised if at least two farmers are positioned to expand for > every one who will go out of business this year. While hurting farmers plan > liquidations or survey their odds of staying in business, their prosperous > neighbors are quietly scouting for bargains on land and equipment. "The > ones who are going to be left standing are those who are pretty good, pretty > big and pretty well-financed," Doster says. "They see opportunity rather > than being frozen by their problems." Opportunities could be plentiful, > depending on how the crisis plays out. Experts describe farmers' plight as > the worst since the mid-1980s, when one in 10 farmers were forced out of > business after land values plummeted. At least 10 percent of Indiana's > 65,000 farmers will quit from 1998 to 2000, Purdue economists say, and some > bankers predict even greater losses. In an average year, 1 percent to 2 > percent leave the farm. Two years of low prices and bleak prospects for a > quick turnaround are leading bankers to break the news to borrowers that > they are cutting off their credit. Other farmers are leaving voluntarily to > protect their assets and avoid being forced into bankruptcy. The crisis was > caused by a glut of products and too few buyers. The world produced three > consecutive years of record-breaking crops. Meanwhile, Asia's economy > collapsed. European countries kept their trade barriers and the strong > American dollar made agricultural exports expensive. Many grain farmers are > breaking even or experiencing small losses. But historically low hog prices, > triggered by factory farm expansions and slaughterhouse closings in Indiana, > have eroded about half of hog farmers' net worth. Industry watchers say hog > farmers won't buy much for a long time despite somewhat improved prices. > They're too poor. Grain farmers will do the lion's share of the > consolidating. Because data isn't available, economists and other experts > are reluctant to estimate just how many farmers they think are prepared to > take on more land or other assets such as buildings and equipment. But it > isn't a tiny minority. "There are numerous farmers who, if they wanted to > buy a farm today, could write a check," says Daryl Fry, vice president of > The Farmers Bank in Frankfort. Expansion-minded farmers fall into two > groups: those who can afford to buy land and those who can only afford to > rent. Interest costs, alone, on a land mortgage can equal the cost to buy > seed, fertilizer and chemicals. Many farmers prefer to rent and control > greater acreage than to tie up their assets in land. Nearly every > financially viable farmer who isn't near retirement is on the prowl to rent > more land, observers say. Howard Halderman of Halderman Farm Management > Services in Wabash says 90 percent of the firm's 550 tenants in Indiana, > Ohio and Michigan are capable of farming more ground. When the firm needs a > new tenant for a particular tract, it often takes bids from as many as 10 > strong, capable operators in the area. "Most guys want to expand," > Halderman says. Halderman tenant Dean Lamb is one. Lamb, who raises 6,000 > acres of corn and soybeans north of Lebanon with his father, brother and > sister, says the family could absorb 500 more acres without having to buy > additional equipment. Excess capacity like that makes it easy for many > farmers to add acreage. "When someone goes out (of business), it doesn't > take much for someone else to step in," Lamb says. Comparatively few > farmers have the means to buy land. But parcels with rich soil command > prices of more than $2,500 an acre -- beyond the ability of the land to > generate a profit from crops. Nonetheless, farms "for the most part are > selling to another farmer," says Greg Maxwell, who oversees ag lending in > Indiana for National City Bank. "There's still a lot of money out there." > Hamilton County farmer Rulon bought 35 acres with the hog buildings. Rulon > says he got it for less than $400,000, a third of its worth just two years > ago. Rulon wants to buy more land, but he's waiting until the price drops. > Given the gravity of the farm crisis, it's overpriced, he says. Few > prosperous farmers discuss their plans publicly for fear of irritating > financially strapped neighbors. Operators interested in absorbing a > distressed neighbor walk on eggshells. "You need to keep your head down if > you want to get along in your neighborhood," Danville farmer John Hardin Jr. > says of expansion-minded farmers Adds Halderman, "If they back-stab > somebody, it's just not as much fun to walk down the street." > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 20:32:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26350 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:32:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03274 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:54:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03216 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spdmgaab.compuserve.com (ds-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17623 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id TAA06207 for sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:52:20 -0400 From: Tom Green Subject: Consolidation: the lighter side of Cc: "[unknown]" Message-ID: <199909201952_MC2-8597-28C4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA03226 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2795 That must be "Rushmorean" as in Rush Limbaugh. I think the correct spelling is "Rushmoronean". To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 20 23:56:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29087 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:56:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15461 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15444 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28541 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA27263 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:12:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:12:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: AG-VISION.com (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2796 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:43:56 -0700 From: Ricardo Rabago To: sustag@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: AG-VISION.com Hello Everyone, Please consider visiting our new AG audio and video site. AG-VISION.com mission is to become the most complete Agriculture guide to all AG audio and video streaming media on the internet. AG-VISION.com is the daily program guide for AG users interested in viewing live or prerecorded radio programs, speeches, U.S.D.A. news events, or any other AG streaming media. Thanks and please let us know what you think about AG-VISION.COM! Ricardo ricardo@ag-vision.com www.ag-vision.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 00:45:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29541 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08347 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:59:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08343 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23326 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:56:42 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Nuclear spills/waste land Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2797 Howdy, all-- About three weeks ago, Ralph responded to Tom. >You say "There have been major accidents at these plants. Workers >have been exposed to radiation. Radioactive water has been poured into >public sewer systems." I don't know what major accidents you are >referring to. I was busy with some personal business at the time, so am sorry for the delay in sharing these thoughts on that thread. Ralph, here is a summary list of the accidents admitted/reported by the US Atomic Energy Commission/Dept. of Energy at research facilities, power plants, nuclear bomb test sites and facilities, and more: http://www.nitehawk.com/alleycat/nukes.html There are many books, interviews, and news articles available on these issues. One example of radioactive water reaching the water table (I don't know about sewer systems) has been documented by the State of Oregon Department of Energy at the Hanford (Oregon) nuclear site. Reactor B at this site is a plutonium production reactor and until recently was used to make fuel for nuclear weapons. It was originally part of the Manhattan Project. From Dirk Dunning, Oregon DOE's Hanford Program Coordinator, in a 1996 interview in the /Environmental Review Newsletter/: "What happens to the Hanford site over time? A large amount of the wastes that have been disposed of or buried or leaked at the Hanford site through its fifty years has gone to the ground water already. There is an even larger amount of waste hanging in the soil which may in the future move into the groundwater and then towards and into the Columbia River. This is a problem today where some of the material along the river at the N reactor, at the K reactor, at the H and D reactors and a couple of other locations is already moving into the Columbia River. At the N reactor, strontium 90 is entering the river at levels well above the drinking water limits. At the D and H reactors, hexavalent chrome is entering the river in an area of spawning beds for some of the native salmon at levels toxic to salmon fry. "We also have an immensely large underground plume of tritium moving across the site and into the river at the old Hanford town site, at levels well above the drinking water standard. In all those cases the levels in the main Columbia River are not significantly elevated, and are below the drinking water standards. But that does not take into account the effects as waste enters the river, particularly for the salmon and many other organisms that live on the edges of the river." Source: http://www.igc.org/envreview/dunning.html For maps of radioactive waste burials at Hanford, see: http://www.whistleblower.org/www/hanfmap.htm http://web.netibs.com/lonepine/hanford.html A non-profit organization called the Government Accountability Project has a site: http://www.whistleblower.org/ that includes various efforts by citizens to hold government agencies accountable. One is Hanford; another is food safety. Regarding Hanford: "The Hanford Nuclear Site in southeastern Washington state stores 54 million gallons of dangerous high-level radioactive waste containing hundreds of millions of curies from the nation's nuclear weapons production process in hundreds of massive underground nuclear waste tanks, a third of which are acknowledged to have failed and leaked. The problem has become all the more urgent since the government recently admitted that, contrary to prior assurances, tank waste containing some of the worst long-lived radionuclides have reached the groundwater beneath the Hanford Site are migrating towards the nearby Columbia River." "Government officials estimate that as much as 450 billion gallons of contaminated liquid wastes were dumped to the soils. As a result, the groundwater under more than 85 square miles of the site is contaminated above current standards. Some of the most radioactive materials were stored in underground tanks, constructed of concrete and containing a carbon steel liner. Of the 177 underground tanks, 69 are acknowledged to have failed so far, and to have leaked radioactive and chemically toxic solutions to the soils, where they have migrated to the groundwater which feeds the Columbia River." Source: http://www.whistleblower.org/www/hanford.htm If you would like to see one of the most perfect examples of Bureau-Babble I've ever run across in my career, see this, from the US DOE: http://www.bhi-erc.com/200Area/200area.htm "Past operations in the 200 Areas has resulted in approximately 700 Environmental Restoration (ER) waste sites largely consisting of waste sites that received liquid wastewater (ponds, cribs, french drains, and ditches) and solid waste (burial grounds)." Isn't that amazing? Operations resulted in waste sites that received liquid wastewater. And then: "The current scope for the project includes characterization to assess the nature and extent of soil contamination and to select appropriate remedial actions." Sounds like just another interesting day's research, eh? With government agencies using slippery, mealy-mouthed language like this, while admitting between the lines they've done egregious harm to people and the land and water, I'm not surprised that Ralph, and others, aren't aware of radioactive contamination of earth and water, or the human health consquences of that. There are many other examples; I include this simply as an exercise in awareness. There are ways of using a particular national language that lead me to question the notion that English is just one language. Many people say that "language by nature lies," but I've never agreed with that. Language is a tool. It can be used to clarify or to confuse, to build collaboration or to enhance control. Clarity, honesty, frankness, and integrity are gifts of the soul, and not all people choose to unwrap them. And some, alas, are trained from the cradle to use it to manipulate, rather than to witness. Those who use it to witness, these days, are often ridiculed (unscientific, impressionistic, emotional, undocumented, subjective), while master manipulators are held up as exemplars. Finally, I want to be honest where I'm coming from here, I've tracked this issue of citizen exposure to radiation since high school--nuclear accidents, exposure of people downwind from nuclear tests, the interaction of weather patterns with test-bomb radiation plumes, nuclear waste storage, nuclear terrorism, and more. My big interest in this developed in the mid-70s out of a /Frontline/ report on missing weapons-grade plutonium at the Kerr-McGee breeder reactor in Crescent, OK, the emerging stories of Hiroshima and Nagasaki /hibakusha/, and the death of Karen Silkwood. I also read Ernest Sternglass's /Low-Level Radiation from Hiroshima to Three Mile Island/, published in 1972 (Ballantine). (He published a second edition in 1981, by McGraw-Hill, updated with TMI stuff.) I was very pleased to see it now on-line: http://www.ratical.org/radiation/SecretFallout/ Sternglass is/was a professor of radiology at the University of Pittsburgh and a member of all the appropriate physics, radiology, and such societies. He may be a heretic Then, when I was in college, I got to know some nuclear engineers who worked at the Peach Bottom nuclear station in SE Penna, along the Susquehanna River. Peach Bottom was one of three generation stations within an hour or less drive of Chester. These nuclear engineers told me one night how they loved their job at this remote location because the twisty, windy road that led up to it was a great place to drive their sports cars really fast, after getting stoned or drunk. Then after work, they could do it again. That was a revelation to me. After that, I made a hobby of visiting these nuclear power plants' visitor centers and asking innocent questions of their Public Information Officers, all of whom were chirpy, perky, and about 20 years old. My favorite site to visit was the Salem Nuclear Power facility, in the SW corner of southern New Jersey. It sits, in fact, upon Sinnicksen land--land held for a century and a half by the first of my father's people to land in the New World from Sweden and Finland in the 1640s--so I've always held a grudge against it. The cooling towers are visible from the Bombay Hook national wildlife refuge, across the Delaware Bay. Anyway, my favorite question to ask in the mid-80s was, wasn't it true that Reactor Number X at Salem was of the same Babcock and Wilcox design as the reactor at Chernobyl, which lacked a containment vessel. You should've seen the heads swivel among the other folks there. Another time, to test a hypothesis I had about the security at the place, I walked into the entryway to one of the reactor buildings like I belonged there. I gave the security guard a big smile, said something about whatever ballgame was happening or just had happened, meanwhile fishing around for my security clearance badge, oh DARN, did I leave it in my locker? I was literally holding the pen to sign myself in and the security guard had his finger on the buzzer, ready to unlock the door. Now, I'm sure there was more than one door to get in, but this guy was going to let me in on the authority of my smile. Jeez. My mistake? I had my boyfriend with me, and the guard was going to let him in too, but then my boyfriend chickened out and said, "Are you sure we're allowed in here?" By the way, this was also the time in my life when I watched my father die of asbestos-related cancers, and then I spent 9 years in court trying to hold the supplying corporations responsible. So. When people tell me how good GMOs are for me--or antibiotics, polymers, or anything else for that matter--I have this looooooong history of knowing that what the science and tech boys tell is is generally filtered through Marketing first. And that message is shaped by what's good for Stockholders and Quarterly Profits. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I do not like the word 'bomb.' It is not a bomb, it is a device which is exploding. --France's ambassador to NZ, Jacques LeBlanc, on French nuclear testing To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 08:49:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03148 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11230 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:54:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA11226 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 05:40:43 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:45:38 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, danamex@mail.internet.com.mx Subject: IFOAM; Organics and competent leadership -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id HAA11227 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2798 Mr. Nigh, Oh dear, *spiteful and venomous* I assure you that there was no intention in that direction though my curmudgeon*s heart is delighted that you read such into my comments. Perhaps I have had to read, listen to and be the brunt of so many organic community/industry diatribes that I have begun to reflect their total lack of civility. I apologize to every one, I have kept my mouth shut for a long time and after this response and one other to Laurie Drinkwater*s recent post, I am going to shut my mouth and go back to lurking and biting my tongue. I consider the whole organic debate great spectator sport and almost every post I see makes me happier that I am no longer involved in it in any way. Any comment that I make here is purely my opinion and does not reflect the Departments continuing commitment to and work on the organic program and organic research. As far as disdain for IFOAM is concerned I think that Bart put the full picture before you and I need not repeat or paraphrase any of that. My perspective on organic standards, after having read most of the standards that have been written in or translated into English and having visited well over one hundred organic operations, both farms and processors, is that the organic community/industry has many standards about which they have many meetings, meeting the standards however is not a high priority. If any of my colleagues in the government or among our corporate clients are making attempts to discredit organics I would quickly advise them that they would be better served keeping their comments to themselves. They could not be nearly as effective at discrediting the organic community/industry as the organic folks are at discrediting themselves. My experience by the way is that there are a number of corporations and many government scientist who are very supportive of the organic market place and research oriented toward understanding of organic methods and particularly organic production problems. I think that it is really important that we not silence rational voices of caution on either side of any issue. It seems to me that debate and replication of research are critical elements of scientific progress. I believe that during the seventies and the eighties the organic movement did offer some critical leadership and created a quasi-legitimate break from the pack. That leadership may have parented the *sustainable* movement. If the organic movement had been able to adjust to the past decade their was the opportunity to move back out onto the cutting edge. It does not appear to me that the parochial and protectionist stand taken by IFOAM and its minions will allow that to happen. They will be aided by the discordant and disorganized organic community/industry here in the US. Indeed I firmly believe that there will emerge very shortly a gaggle of sustainable/ecological/green labels, that will be corporate brand names or commodity trademarks and that will dominate the market and leave organic to its tiny niche. I personally consider the distribution issue, out of which many of the social issues naturally emerge, more important than the soil based system of agro-ecosystem management concept. However, I think that trying to solve all those related issues within the *organic* concept is suicidal both practically and politically. Where are the real leaders of an agricultural reformation in the twenty first century? Some you will never know, some that you do know are people like Joel Salatin and Steve Groff, I wonder if either of them bother to read the pronouncements of IFOAM? Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 10:10:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04590 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:10:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24487 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:26:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24363 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28828 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA15726 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E78810.D757F106@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:28:49 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: Additional Flood Effects--Animal deaths Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2799 So far 4 million poultry, 500,000 hogs in North Carolina. Still counting. . . I also saw a news release about pets. Pets are not allowed in shelters. They were being rescued by a group of people until all boats were removed from the water because of environmental contamination (hog lagoons, municipal treatment systems, poultry houses, septic systems, all under water). -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 11:03:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05483 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05697 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:52:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05598 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.136]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA04205 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:44:02 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990921084950.00735eb4@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:49:50 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re:IFOAM; Organics and competent leadership -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA05615 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2800 Dr. Mr. Rogers, Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply and for clarifying your point of view with respect to IFOAM and organics. I understand you position much better now, though I do not agree with it. Perhaps our difference arises from our experience. I work with small farmers in Mexico, mostly Indians, for whom organic agriculture is both very old and very new. To them it opens a desperately needed direct market for quality food products and is also a revindication of their own agricultural traditions that, for decades, have been villified by technocrats. They work very hard to meet international organic standard to gain access to the organic market. And, though there are one or two bad apples in every barrel, I am moved at the enthusiasm with which they understand and express the organic philosophy. Given the violence with which Mexico's market has been forced open for the US food industry, and the way the US market is still highly protected from Mexican products (this is called "free trade" by the Clinton administration) I am not overly impressed when people in US agriculture accuse the Europeans of looking out for their commercial interests. In Mexico, we have certainly had our share of European colonialist attitudes in organics, especially as we try to create a Mexican national certification system and stop having to pay foreign inspectors $300-$800 per day. But we don't notice a lot of difference--OCIA and IFOAM all sing the same song, as far as we can tell. For that matter, the way people and our whole value system has become obsessed with money in recent decades, can we criticize organic farmers for having to worry about their profits? But the real question that should unite us under the organic banner are the more fundamental questions: what world do want to live in? One in which our food supply is controlled by a few, historically unethical, corporations, where "quality" means standardized schlock and fit into the processing machinery and lasts forever on the shelf but provides nutrition for neither the body or the spirit? (Sometimes you have to look at the picture on the box to know just what your supposed to be eating!) Do we want to see small farmers, the diverse rural landscapes, the varieties of native crops, and good plain food made with love and without chemicals driven out by WTO, Codex Alimentarius and the monopolistic practices of our "food system"? Are we to lose farm culture, farm cultures all over the world such as the Maya where I work, the crop genetic variety they conserve, the unique products and food you can find in each town? I think these things are worth defending against corporate greed. You say these things can't be "solved within the organic concept", to attempt so is suicidal. Yet I don't think the "organic concept" is limited nor graven in stone. I was impressed by the two or three OCIA assemblies I attended where farmers would spend a day or two discussing standards. I think the attitude their was that organic is dynamic concept and is very much open to resolving the broader issues. I would point our that it is a "social movement". People scoff at the term movement but think about that, it is a social phenomenon in which thousands of people worldwide have already come to an agreement about a lot of things. I don't see anything else on the horizon that offers us them means of building an alternative to coroporate agriculture together. I question the motives of those who say "scrap it". Certainly you are right to point to the danger of the proliferation of "eco-labels", something I have always spoken out against, and the threat of coroporate take over. The disarray of the organic "industry" in America is also a sad fact. America is so big and prosperous that people sometimes forget that there is also a rest-of-the-world (not even counting Europe) and there, organics is growing fast. To abandon the organic movment would be a tragic mistake that most of us are not about to make. If you have no more faith in your own US organic farmers--the ones I know are dedicated and skilled farmers--then at least remember the impact that the growing organic market in the US has for thousands of small farmers outside the US, such as the Maya organic coffee growers of Chiapas. Organic is our best chance, for all of us, in the US and beyond. I just don't see precision farming taking its place as a real alternative. So let's fix it where it needs fixing. I think if you go back and read the IFOAM statement again, forgetting your negative feelings about IFOAM for a minute, you will see that it is not a bad statement. It is something world farmers can rally around and hopefully stop the Clinton administration and its corporate backers from taking another step in imposing industrial agriculture on the world in the name of "free trade" in Seattle in November. Let's get our priorities straight and stick together before we've lost it all, our farmers, our relationship to the land and wholesome food for our children. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 11:11:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05616 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16963 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:13:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16938 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from regenerative.earthlink.net (pool0418.cvx7-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.165.163]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA08393 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990921071114.008991c0@earthlink.net> X-Sender: regenerative@earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:11:14 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Fred Chambers Subject: Job Announcement - Job Coach - Casa Colina, SoCalif. In-Reply-To: <199909211353.JAA06204@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2801 JOB ANNOUNCEMENT-August 5, 1999 Job Coach Horticultural Therapy and Training Program Casa Colina / Career Development Center http://www.casacolina.org/ Exciting and dynamic position offered in the nations leading Horticultural Therapy and Training Program. Best of what horticulture has to offer in addition to the opportunity to serve a wide range of people with disabilities. Full time (and possible part-time position) available for Job Coach to support and train people with disabilities in diverse horticultural settings: Landscape Maintenance, Nursery Production, Public and Demonstration Gardens, and more. General Description: The position of Job Coach is responsible for directing and training individuals with disabilities at horticulture job sites; to provide intensive task related training on the job. Job Coach attitudes and actions also impact the way client, co-workers, supervisors and employers interact with one another. The Job Coach is utilized in maintaining a professional and supportive work environment for all persons involved. Summary of Duties and Responsibilities: Job Coach will be responsible for leading and training crews of people with a wide range of disabilities, performing evaluation and preparation of work environments, working with rehabilitation staff in assessing and addressing clients work performance and behaviors, communicating with case managers, writing weekly progress notes regarding each individuals goals and participation in program, developing and implementing instruction plans for clients at horticulture work sites, maintaining on-the-job records and other relevant data, following up with employers and customers on client as well as job performance, meeting with and informing Horticulture Program Coordinator and Case Manager on a weekly basis regarding client and program needs, transporting clients to worksites, operating and maintaining passenger vehicles and horticultural equipment, and further duties as assigned by Horticulture Program Coordinator. Summary of Skills, Knowledge and Abilities: Job Coach must possess a desire to work with people with disabilities, be able to communicate effectively with a variety of people, be able to develop and sustain employment opportunities, show tact, maturity, perseverance and organization, demonstrate knowledge of horticulture, nursery skills, and landscaping, acquire and demonstrate knowledge of client rights in the areas of confidentiality, informed consent, intervention procedures and regulations of Title 17 and Title 2, advocate for all workers in creating and maintaining relations in the best interests of the client. Summary of Minimum Qualifications: Job Coach must possess sufficient education, training, and work experience to accomplish the duties and responsibilities of the position; have a valid California Drivers License, with no more than one moving violation in the previous three years, and no convictions for Driving Under the Influence of intoxicants or Reckless Driving during the previous three years; be capable of safely performing functions indigenous to the position, including routine or repeated and extended periods of standing, walking, physical exertion, climbing ladders, reaching, operating in confined or uncomfortable environs, lifting and carrying loads; and using tools and equipment. It is the policy of Casa Colina to provide reasonable accommodation. (Refer to C2-200 Employment Policies and Procedures). Note: Employment is contingent on successfully completing a post offer physical and the ability to present documented evidence of the right to work and remain in the United States. This Description is a Summary Version Only. Please request a full Job Description as well as general information about the Casa Colina Horticultural Therapy and Training Program from Anne Lumsdun, Program Secretary by calling (909) 596-7733 x 2245 or writing to Casa Colina Horticultural Therapy and Training Program 2850 N. Garey Ave., Pomona, CA 91769-6001 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 11:15:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05693 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17983 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:17:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17942 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:17:47 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:16:37 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:16:36 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.73] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0933133c ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:16:20 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990921090623.009af5b0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:06:23 -0500 To: Subject: RE: Consolidation/Feedstuffs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2802 >Subject: RE: Consolidation--Remember what happens to 'Earl snip >I wonder which economists "Feedstuffs" talked to? Given that the following was on the opening page of the Feedstuffs website http://www.feedstuffs.com/, "Feedstuffs is a weekly newspaper serving agribusiness decision makers involved in the manufacture, production and distribution of products and services for livestock and poultry, including vertically integrated and large-scale feeding enterprises. Feedstuffs provides news, information and analysis on the businesses of feed manufacturing and food animal production, including the related areas of animal health and nutrition, industry trends, feed ingredients, government regulations and marketing." I doubt they were talking to economists who work for any organizations like the National Farmer's Union. Their editorial wish may be short sighted though. What happens to their circulation if the "American agriculture (does) must now quickly consolidate all farmers and livestock producers into about 50 production systems...". Who, except for those 50 sets of bureaucracts, will have money to spend on newpapers? ;>) Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 12:15:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07050 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18062 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:33:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18031 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:31:49 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D01953A5B@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Webb, Kevin" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: Consolidation--Remember what happens to 'Earl Butz' in "Moo?" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:31:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2803 Undoubtedly, the title of the article, "U.S. Agriculture needs leaders, not populists, to survive", was a misprint. I'm sure what they meant to say was "U.S. Agriculture needs populist leaders to survive." Kevin Kevin Webb Food Circles Networking Project Department of Rural Sociology University of Missouri-Columbia 105 Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 (573) 882-3776 [573] 882=1473 (fax) webbk@missouri.edu -----Original Message----- From: Ed and Sue Sparling [mailto:edandsue@lamar.colostate.edu] Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 5:38 PM To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; PatrickMadden@compuserve.com Subject: RE: Consolidation--Remember what happens to 'Earl Butz' in "Moo?" Chuck, et al, With apologies for being flip; I can't resist it. I wonder which economists "Feedstuffs" talked to? Probably Professor Gift (of the Econ Dept at Moo University in the satirical novel "Moo") was among them. Care to venture a guess about who it was that inspired the Professor Gift character? If memory serves me, JK Galbraith had bought into the common wisdom that bigger is better in his "New Industrial State," a book popular in the late 1960's. That thinking has been out of vogue for some time in industrial organization (the part of economics dealing with anti-trust, etc)-and judging from the tendency for modern corporations to spin-off and downsize, current business doesn't really buy the 'get-big-get-out' bromide. Detroit followed that prescription down a blind alley in the 50's and 60's. Looks like the feedlot industry would like US agriculture to emulate it. Ed Sparling To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 12:41:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07492 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28402 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:52:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28367 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:38:21 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:47:05 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, ldrink@rodaleinst.org Subject: Reply to Avery -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id LAA28382 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2804 I was pleased to see Laurie Drinkwater*s response to the most recent Avery attack. I think that it is critical to fight disinformation and half truth with the best possible truth. The Rodale research is particularly good since they are committed to long range comparative studies. They also have the advantage of having the involvement of a neighbor who has a livestock operation so that parts of their studies have a quasi-integrated livestock unit. It was also good to see that OTA was able to counter the public health menace argument which was a real stretch. We were pretty sure when this came up a couple of years ago that conventional vegetables and fruits use more raw manure than organic operations do. I do find it ironic that the organic community/industry is faced with this kind of attack and half truth, considering that their own problems now and into the future arise from their own propagation of half truths and misinformation. The unfounded arguments that organic food is safer, more healthy, or *purer* than conventional, not to mention the insinuation that there are no organic *factory farms* and that all animals from which organic animal products are harvested have free access to the outdoors and pasture leave one limp with astonishment. These half truths which have been allowed to continue uncorrected in the minds of the average organic consumer, if not encouraged by the organic marketers, are the soft underbelly of the organic industry. I have been giving this warning unheeded for almost a decade. How long before someone more competent and sophisticated than a Dennis Avery discovers these contradictions and exploits them. Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 14:34:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09731 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09665 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:27:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09613 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:27:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18112 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:10:06 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Fwd: Toxics and safety Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2805 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. From Common Courage Press. peace misha >Date: 21 Sep 1999 16:59:08 -0000 >From: "Common Courage Political Literacy Course" > >Delivered-To: mailing list PolitLit@listbot.com >Subject: Chemicals: Do You Smell Fraud? > >Info on this email course is at the bottom. > >Toxics and safety: have we got the right mix? > >True or false? In the last half century, several developments have >constrained chemical companies from selling harmful products, ensuring our >greater health and safety. Since DDT and asbestos are now banned, the >government will eventually remove all other harmful chemicals from the >market. With the growing popularity of organic food, pesticides are on the >way out. We can trust the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and >Drug Administration to regulate what pesticides and other products get >used. On top of this, the potential for huge legal liabilities when >products hurt people has kept the chemical industry on a tight leash. We >can never be totally safe, but the regulatory and legal systems minimize >the risk of illness or worse from chemicals. The worst is over. > >Dan Fagin and Marianne Lavelle, co-authors of "Toxic Deception: How the >Chemical Industry Manipulates Science, Bends the Law and Endangers Your >Health," upset this optimism with some disturbing facts: > >1. The World Health Organization estimated in 1989 that pesticides >worldwide cause one million poisonings a year and 20,000 deaths. > >2. The problem is getting worse: According to one 1992 study, pesticides >like Monsanto's Ortho Weed-B-Gon, which contains 2, 4-D, are used at least >once a year by 98 percent of all families in the U.S. And it's a huge, >fast-growing industry: in 1995, the largest 100 U.S.-based chemical >companies sold over $234 billion worth of chemical products. This >represents a 17 percent growth over the previous year's sales and a tidy >profit of $35 billion. > >3. The EPA is overwhelmed. While 300 man-made chemicals have been >identified as cancer-causing agents in chemical tests, 80 percent of >chemicals currently on the market remain untested. > >4. Fear of law suits is not as constraining a force on corporate behavior >as many would like to believe. Chemical companies also know more about >their products than they like to admit. In 1991 and 1992, the EPA offered >amnesty from big money fines to any manufacturers who turned in health >studies they should have turned in to the agency earlier. Manufacturers >suddenly turned over 10,000 documents! > >5. What are the health effects? While it's difficult to paint a complete >picture, the dangers are clear. As Lavelle and Fagin write, "At least 20 >peer-reviewed studies have linked various pesticides to cancer in >children. A recent study of 474 Denver children, for example, found that >they were more than twice as likely to get leukemia if pest strips had >been used in their homes and also were significantly more likely to get >brain tumors or lymphomas if their homes had been treated by >exterminators." > >How did we get here? Why isn't the EPA doing a better job? Can science >solve this mess? What can we do? These questions are addressed in "Toxic >Deception" and will be the subject of future emails. Click on >http://www.commoncouragepress.com/toxicd.html for more. > > Also available: a Beyond the Book interview with Marianne Lavelle and Dan >Fagin, "Dangerous Chemicals, Deadly Decisions." >http://www.commoncouragepress.com/toxicdinterview.html > >TOMORROW: Jim Hightower examines corporations on your mind. > >This is the free Political Literacy Course from Common Courage Press: A >backbone of facts to stand up to spineless power. Email 11, September 21 >1999. Week 3: Corporate Crime. Homepage: http://www.commoncouragepress.com >To subscribe for free: mailto:PolitLit-subscribe@listbot.com >Course archive: http://www.commoncouragepress.com/politlitarchive.html >Chatroom: http://www.cartserver.com/bbs/a/3827/index.cgi >Feedback/Title suggestions: mailto:gbates@commoncouragepress.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 14:34:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09735 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12259 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:30:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12201 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04590 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id NAA17688 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E7C151.648762A@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:33:05 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Sierra Club press release on Floyd, CAFOS (fwd)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2806 This is word from a "Hog list-server" -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Fw: Sierra Club press release on Floyd, CAFOS (fwd) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:19:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Environmental Resource Program Reply-To: checchogs@listserv.oit.unc.edu To: checchogs@listserv.oit.unc.edu Subject: Floyd's Floods Intensify Health Risk From Factory Farms FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: CONTACT: September 20, 1999 Ed Hopkins, 202-675-7908 Megan Fowler, 415-977-5627 FLOYD'S FLOODS INTENSIFY HEALTH RISK CREATED BY HUGE HOG AND POULTRY OPERATIONS Sierra Club Calls For EPA Ban on Open-Air Animal Waste Cesspools; Strengthening of Public Health Protections Washington, DC - In the aftermath of Hurricane Floyd's environmental devastation in North Carolina and Maryland's Eastern Shore, the Sierra Club today called upon the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to prevent massive amounts of animal waste from entering rivers by banning "lagoons" - the giant cesspools used to store animal waste - and prohibiting the construction of factory farms in floodplains. Hurricane Floyd has created unprecedented contamination in North Carolina's waterways. It is reported that 100,000 hogs and 1 million chickens are dead and Neuse Riverkeeper Rick Dove has estimated that breached lagoons have discharged an excess of 100 million gallons of hog waste. On Maryland's Eastern Shore, massive amounts of chicken waste has washed into the Chesapeake Bay threatening to destroy fish and wildlife habitat. "The Sierra Club extends its deepest sympathy to the victims of this terrible disaster. While we cannot keep hurricanes from happening, we can reduce the damage they cause," said Carl Pope, Executive Director of the Sierra Club. "Recovering from a hurricane is tough enough without this major water pollution crisis." "Disastrous leaks and spills from these animal waste cesspools have occurred during far less severe storms in North Carolina and other states," Pope stated. "The environmental disaster caused by the inundation of hog lagoons and massive hog and chicken farms in North Carolina and Maryland is a wake-up call for tough national rules on industrial livestock operations. It's time for the EPA to prohibit this antiquated and inherently unsafe technology and require the phase-out of existing lagoons." Animal waste is responsible for polluting 35,000 miles of rivers in 22 states and contaminating groundwater in 17 states, according to a 1998 EPA study. U.S. EPA is currently requesting comments on new guidance for issuing Clean Water Act permits for Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations (CAFOs). This is the first action the Clinton Administration has taken since the EPA and USDA released a strategy for dealing with animal waste pollution problems in March. "EPA's proposal is pitifully weak and fails to address the water pollution problems factory farms cause across America," said Ed Hopkins, Sierra Club's Senior Washington Representative. He also noted that the agency's proposal fails even to take obvious steps to protect water, such as prohibiting the construction of factory farms in floodplains, requiring governmental review of manure management plans, and phasing out the use of open-air lagoons for waste storage. "Regulations should be designed to protect our waterways and ensure that factory farms are not located in areas subject to flooding and other periodic - and predictable - natural disasters," Hopkins concluded. ### To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 15:24:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10806 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10428 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:32:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s2k.itribe.net (s2k.itribe.net [209.49.144.208]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10272 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from picusnet.com (5.dialup09.picus.com [207.7.94.158]) by s2k.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA22013 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E7CE26.410A566D@picusnet.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:27:50 -0400 From: Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-RCN032399 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Is Dennis Avery a liar and other questions? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2807 Hello again, I've been following the Dennis Avery threads and reading John Robbins and I have to admit, I am really confused. I went to college for three years during which time the vast majority of my classes were in the physical sciences so I am almost completely unfamiliar with biological science. What I don't understand is this; how can scientists in the same discipline come up with different answers to the same questions? That is pretty darn impossible in physics and math so why is it so common in these other scientific disciplines? Is somebody lying? I have a hard time believing that because nobody wins if the environment is destroyed. It's not like there's another planet for the well heeled to run to. I have read some of Dennis Avery's words and he is a smooth talking guy. He is also, I think, clearly intelligent. Clinton was a Rhodes scholar. John Robbins presents what seems to be a clear picture that meat production is destabilizing other economies, causing wide spread hunger and is responsible for untold environmental damage. Add to this picture the consequences of the global market which tend to force the price of commodities ever downward and it all seems like "A Really Bad Idea" yet Clinton and I presume Gore and I presume George W., should he get elected, and Reagan, and Bush etc... are now or have been promoting these policies. Why? Not even the greediest, most unscrupulous person in the world would set fire to a house he cannot leave to make a profit. Another question: how does vertical integration differ from a monopoly? It's been a long time since I studied monopolies but they seem to pretty much the same thing. Is Monsanto doing anything, actually as opposed to some day in some hypothetical future, to combat world hunger? From what I've read, they are contributing to hunger by promoting those crops that take arable land out of local food production by concentrating on feed grade soybeans and corn and cotton. Do they know this? I know somebody who retired from Monsanto and he seem's like a nice guy. All my information is second hand but I do see that most of the people who are pro GM etc..., make their living from the mega corps. And I find it deeply troubling that these same people seem to be in and out of government jobs. Still, I come back to my basic premise: No one sets his house on fire. Thanks Sasha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 16:09:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11653 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17577 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:52:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17518 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIF0024VB0JFP@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:46:49 -0700 From: Misha Subject: NYC/SL encephalitis To: SANET-mg Cc: stauber@compuserve.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2808 Howdy, all-- Some new stuff in on the NYC spraying for SLE. First, here's the spraying schedule from the NYC city Web site. http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/oem/html/spraying_sched.html Sumithrin is also being used; this is a synthetic pyrethroid, like resmethrin. Go to the PESTIS site, gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:2998/7PESTIS and search on the name of this pesticide. See esp. the third hit, on the use of pesticides on airplanes. Sumithrin is used for this. Second, this item from ProMED; again, see moderator Charles Calisher's comments at the end on the Public Information handling of information about basic biology and epidemiology. I read this as very important. In effect, NYC is spraying without hard data confirming an infection, if you go by his critique of the NYC Dept. of Health press release. Spray. And pray. Always a good substitute for thinking. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ST. LOUIS ENCEPHALITIS - USA (NEW YORK CITY) (07) ************************************************* A ProMED post Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:12:15 -0400 From: Marjorie P. Pollack Source: Press release, NYC Dept. of Health, Office of Public Affairs, 13 Sep 1999 Eleven confirmed cases of St. Louis Encephalitis (including 3 deaths); 65 cases under investigation (including one death) At a news conference at City Hall this afternoon, Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani provided an update on the investigation of St. Louis encephalitis (SLE) in New York City. Yesterday, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) confirmed two additional cases of SLE, bringing to 11 the number of confirmed cases; there are 65 [other] cases under investigation. Mayor Giuliani said, "Yesterday, the CDC provided results on 19 additional cases under investigation for SLE. Fourteen of these cases were found to be negative for the virus. However, there are now two additional cases confirmed: one case is a 15 year-old who is in stable condition; and the other is of a 38 year-old who has been released from the hospital. Three other cases are borderline. [see comment below] "The appearance of the SLE virus in a younger population is not unexpected but the elderly are still much more vulnerable to becoming seriously ill. Nonetheless, all New Yorkers should take precautions against mosquito bites. Most people who are infected with the SLE virus will recover. I urge New Yorkers to be calm and cooperative as we continue our surveillance for this virus and do whatever is necessary to protect the health of our City," the Mayor concluded. Jerome Hauer, Director of the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management (MOEM), said, "We will complete this round of aerial and ground spraying of the five boroughs by tomorrow evening before resuming these preventive activities in the next several days, weather permitting." Health Commissioner Cohen said, "Based on information received yesterday from the CDC, which confirmed two cases, ruled out 14, and established 3 more borderline cases, we are now investigating 65 possible cases of SLE. Among these, 7 are probable, 17 are suspect, 38 are of low probability [see comment below] and 3 have not yet been classified. Among the 65 cases being investigated, 13 are considered to be in the borderline category. This borderline category characterizes those cases that have to be retested by the CDC. It should be noted that each of those borderline cases have varying levels of probability for confirmation. "The public should be reassured that younger adults are most likely to fully recover from an SLE infection. These additional confirmed cases of SLE represent infections that occurred prior to September 3, when our praying efforts began. However, any individual who experiences a severe headache with high fever or any other SLE-like symptoms, including stiff neck or disorientation, should seek medical attention immediately," Dr. Cohen concluded. The New York City Department of Health continues to recommend precautions to reduce the risk of exposure to mosquitoes. [precautions listed - Mod.CHC] The spraying schedule, information about SLE, and Health Department releases since September 3 are available on the City's Web site at: Hotline to answer questions from the public: 1-888-MOEM-NYC (1-888-663-6692) - -- ProMED [There is no such thing as a "borderline" diagnosis. Exclusive of virus isolation or detection (i.e., antigen detection assays, PCR or other detection of SLE viral RNA), which always are either "positive" or "negative", depending on whether a virus or its RNA is detected or not, serodiagnosis is (should be) done with paired serum samples. Therefore, either there is a significant rise or fall in antibody titer or there is not. As we recently discussed, re: infections with eastern equine and western equine encephalitis viruses, use of single serum samples for serodiagnosis can lead to a presumptive diagnosis at best, even under the pressure that must exist in the political context. Terms such as "probable", "suspect", "low probability", "borderline", and "varying levels of probability for confirmation" are nonsensical. Whoever is interpreting the CDC results is going way out on a limb and is not communicating well. I assume this is not at the laboratory (CDC) level, else we will have an even bigger and more confusing epidemiological mess than we now have. Under the present circumstances, the presence of IgM antibody in a single serum from a person in NY City could be considered (even VERY) presumptive, which likely is good enough to make medical, vector control, and other decisions, but it should not be considered as confirmatory of a recent infection. - Mod.CHC] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wash your hands after using any pesticide product. --Dow Elanco To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 17:20:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12841 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00337 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:19:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00072 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA13926 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:17:18 -0500 Message-ID: <37E7E772.1ACEFCCB@missouri.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:15:47 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Monopoly and Vertical Integration (Was Is Dennis Avery a liar and other questions?) References: <37E7CE26.410A566D@picusnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2809 Sasha wrote: > What I don't understand is this; how can scientists in the > same discipline come up with different answers to the same questions? > That is pretty darn impossible in physics and math so why is it so > common in these other scientific disciplines? Is somebody lying? Nobody's lying, they are just making different assumptions in their quest to explain phenomena. Math and physics are the most "pure" sciences some say -- the more you deal with living organisms the more complex systems one has to explain and the messier "pure" science becomes. Unfortunately, the way science is taught in the U.S. leaves the impression that science is the build up of a long body of work over years and years. In actual fact, one scientific paradigm prevails as an explanation for phenomena until enough evidence accumulates to discredit it. Then a new paradigm emerges relatively quickly (see Kuhn, Thomas, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions) which has the power to best explain the most evidence. (And of course, there are always lots of competing paradigms at any given time, which is what I think we are seeing in the biotech field.) Thus, quantum physics eventually displaced Newtonian physics because it was better at explanation. In addition, science is almost never "value-free" as some like to claim it is. Science is ever changing and scientists with integrity always admit there are competing explanations for natural and social phenomena. However, some arguments are more systematic and better reasoned than others, which is where I think Dennis Avery probably falls down. But then so do some of his critics. The important thing is to judge scientific theories on their internal coherence and logic -- as well as their power of explanation -- particularly when one is dealing with social science data, an arena into which Avery seems to wander quite often. > Another question: how does vertical integration differ from a monopoly? > It's been a long time since I studied monopolies but they seem to pretty > much the same thing. When Bill Heffernan and I study concentration in agriculture, we say that when 4 or fewer firms control 40% or more of a market, the firms act like a monopoly. (We base that on small group theory and economic literature from the early 1980s.) This means they don't have to collude to set prices, they observe what the other major buyers in the market are doing and adjust their behavior accordingly. (Which is the difficulty with proving anti-trust.) Vertical integration is not about monopoly per se; a vertically integrated firm could have "monopoly" power in one commodity, or one stage of processing, and not have monopoly power in other sectors. Firms vertically integrate to reduce uncertainities and to spread their risk -- i.e. diversify, exactly what farmers are encouraged not to do. If they lose money in one sector, they can make it up in another. Horizontal integration occurs when one firm, operating in one stage of a commodity buys or acquires other firms in that same commodity stage. Vertical integration is when the firm moves up or down stages of the commodity and across commodities. Globalization spreads risks for firms into other markets and other countries. Example: ADM started out as a grain processor, acquired other firms doing the same thing, expanded into grain trading and further processing of corn and soybeans, expanded internationally. ConAgra has diversified their risk by 1) processing a number of commodities, including wheat, hogs, beef, chicken, turkeys, sheep and seafood, 2) "operating across the food chain..." in terms of supplying farmer inputs, buying grain, processing grain, supplying feed, processing meat, turning that meat into branded food products, and 3)"...around the world." If prices are too high in the US, if crops fail here etc.etc, there risks are spread globally and they can also search for different markets. This gives these large TNCs (Transnational corporations) a great deal more power (as well as deeper pockets) than farmers to influence production and consumption issues. For more information on this, check out our report on concentration and consolidation to the National Farmers Union at www.nfu.org Mary -- Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. Network Coordinator Food Circles Networking Project University of Missouri Outreach and Extension Department of Rural Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 Tele: 573-882-7463 Fax: 573-882-1473 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 17:28:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12917 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10752 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:40:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10571 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990921203835.XQCC29123.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com>; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:38:35 -0700 Message-ID: <37E7ED4F.7C462AC@home.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:40:48 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, wibekkah@picusnet.com Subject: the house is on fire References: <199909211854.OAA18066@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2810 ""All my information is second hand but I do see that most of the people who are pro GM etc..., make their living from the mega corps. And I find it deeply troubling that these same people seem to be in and out of government jobs. Still, I come back to my basic premise: No one sets his house on fire."" Ok then, iI think we have different things in mind, as I know that there are many environmental disasters/ foibles. ... I really am puzzled by your statement..maybe i'm not reading it right. As i see it, one has to only be aware of current events around him to see that many "fires" are being set,intentional and not. billevans T To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 17:29:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12921 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:29:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07266 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:33:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from empm.cdpr.ca.gov (empm.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07262 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [134.186.108.48] (empmac.cdpr.ca.gov [134.186.108.48]) by empm.cdpr.ca.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06196 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: brunetti@134.186.108.6 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:33:40 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Kathy Brunetti Subject: Calif. Offers $800,000 for Safe Pesticide Alternatives Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2811 California Department of Pesticide Regulation September 20, 1999 (99-23) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DPR Offers $800,000 for Safe Pesticide Alternatives on the Farm and in Urban Neighborhoods SACRAMENTO -- Cal/EPA's Department of Pesticide Regulation will award $800,000 in Pest Management Alliance grants aimed at reducing pesticide risks to workers, consumers, and the environment. Alliance grant details will be provided at a workshop at 1:30 p.m. on October 19 in the Department of Food and Agriculture auditorium at 1220 N Street, Sacramento. Potential grant applicants must attend the workshop. Agricultural marketing orders and commissions, trade associations, urban groups, and others are eligible for grants. "As DPR's Pest Management Alliance moves into its second year, our focus is on promoting safe and effective alternatives to higher-risk pesticides," said DPR Director Paul E. Helliker. "Our goal is to create public-private alliances that reduce the impact of pesticides on human health and the environment. And we're looking beyond the farm to encourage new alliances that deal with the pest management needs of urban and suburban areas." DPR will fund approximately eight major grants, with up to $100,000 per year for each project. Individual Alliance grants may be renewed for up to five years. Grant recipients must match their Alliance awards dollar for dollar. Proposals may involve applied research, demonstration projects, or a combination of the two. Projects also must serve as a practical model for adoption of integrated pest management (IPM) practices throughout an industry and across the state. IPM works with nature to control pest problems while minimizing the use of pesticides. Alliance priorities for the 1999-2000 grants include: -- Alternatives to high-toxicity pesticides, including organophosphates and carbamates, toxic category I products, and other restricted use materials; -- Projects aimed at reducing worker exposure to pesticides; -- Projects aimed at protecting surface and ground water quality; -- Alternatives to methyl bromide and other fumigants; -- Projects to promote IPM in schools and other public buildings; -- Reduced-risk strategies for residential pest management in urban areas; and -- Alternatives to using pesticides for new or secondary pest problems that occur after adoption of a reduced-risk pest management system. DPR has awarded $4.3 million in grants for reduced-risk pest management projects since 1996. In August, DPR announced that $600,000 in grants are available in fiscal 1999-2000 for local and regional projects under the Pest Management Grant program. The Alliance program -- which supports large-scale, statewide projects -- is the latest in a series of reduced-risk initiatives by DPR that rely upon communication, cooperation, and incentives, rather than regulatory mandates. Alliance funding involves a three-stage process: initial workshop, proposal development, and evaluation of grant applications. First, Alliance details will be explained to potential applicants at the mandatory October 19 workshop. Applicants must then submit a detailed proposal, which includes a work plan and timetable. Applicants that submit the most promising proposals will receive up to $5,000 from DPR to conduct a pest management evaluation. These evaluations will help applicants develop full proposals that will be reviewed by DPR to determine which projects will receive full funding. These will be announced in mid-May, 2000. For more Alliance information, or to receive a bid package by mail, write to Lyndon Hawkins at the Environmental Monitoring and Pest Management Branch, DPR, 830 K Street, Sacramento, CA 95814; call Hawkins at (916) 324-4100, or e-mail . Potential applicants can also get a copy of the proposal package from DPR's Web site in the "What's New" section (http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/whatnew.htm) One of six boards and departments within the California Environmental Protection Agency, DPR regulates the use of pesticides to protect human health and the environment. Media Contacts: Veda Federighi, Glenn Brank (916) 445-3974 # To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 17:55:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13379 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:55:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28810 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:11:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28790 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.12.75.139] ([209.12.75.139]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA01247 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:10:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:10:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Sender: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Brown rot of peach Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2812 Dear sanet, Does anyone know of an organically-accepted method of dealing with Brown rot of peaches caused by the fungus Monilinia fructicola? Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 19:23:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14935 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19695 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:46:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19655 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03504; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:45:33 -0700 To: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) From: Misha Subject: Re: Brown rot of peach Cc: SANET-mg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2813 Hi, Nathan-- > Does anyone know of an organically-accepted method of dealing with >Brown rot of peaches caused by the fungus Monilinia fructicola? Some biocontrol methods/observations I've heard from organic growers at different stages of the stone-fruit cycle: --Remove rotted/dried fruit from trees to decrease inoculum. --Cultivate the orchard floor to bury the mummies. --Choose early maturing cultivars. --Take care not to injure fruit on the twig. --Refrigeration, or cool storage, for harvested fruit. --Excessive nitrogen makes canopies thicker, thus shading the fruit more and increasing conditions that encourage the bacterium. On the institutional front, I turned up some stuff in a VERY quick search. Here's a summary of cultural approaches research from UC-Davis's IPM program: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Cultural Approaches to Control Brown Rot of Stone Fruits in California. Principal Investigators: T. J. Michailides, Plant Pathology, Davis/Kearney Agricultural Center, Parlier; B. A. Holtz, UC Cooperative Extension, Madera County; C. Hong Objectives: Determine the importance of Monilinia fructicola apothecia as a source of primary inoculum in stonefruit orchards in the San Joaquin Valley. Study the conditions that favor the stromatization of mummified fruit by M. fructicola that enhance the production of apothecia capable of initiating blossom infections in the spring. Determine the importance of thinned fruit as a source of inoculum during the season; and whether thinned fruit can become stromatized, overwinter, and produce apothecia in the spring. Summary of Accomplishments: Apothecia of the brown rot pathogen, Monilinia fructicola, of stone fruit were commonly observed in February and March in commercial orchards during a disease survey and in experimental orchards where stonefruit mummies were added. Several millions of ascospores can be released by each apothecium at the beginning of the season. Conidial sporulation of M. fructicola was not observed either on mummified fruit, peduncles, or blighted flowers and twigs. Mummies, however, produced conidia under laboratory conditions. Blossom blight was less severe in research plots where mummies were removed than when mummies were left on the ground. Subsequently, preharvest fruit brown rot was also less severe in plots where mummies were completely removed than where infected fruit were left on the ground. A similar relationship was observed for postharvest fruit brown rot in both 1995 and 1996. In addition, preharvest fruit brown rot was reduced in plots where the orchard floors were disced, herbicides were applied to berms in the tree rows, and mummies were removed in comparison with plots where no till, no herbicide, and no removal of mummies were practiced. These results suggest that apothecia can function as a main source of primary inoculum for initiating brown rot epidemics in stonefruit orchards of the San Joaquin Valley; and that blossom blight and fruit rot can be reduced by removing mummies from orchard floors or by preventing the development of apothecia after discing and/or applying herbicides during winter. Apothecia were produced in February and early March from stromatized mummies that were placed in the orchard soil only in October, November, or December. Stromatized mummies placed in the field in August/September and January/February did not produce apothecia, presumably because they did not have the proper conditions for apothecia development. Apothecia were never produced from nonstromatized or fresh fruit mummies, and laboratory results confirmed these field studies. Therefore, growers who knock infected fruit to the ground before October (preferentially immediately after harvest) can break the life cycle of the brown rot fungus by preventing fresh mummies to become stromatized and by subjecting the mummies under conditions favorable to destruction. Field fruit brown rot was less severe in plots where thinned fruit were removed than where thinned fruit were not removed and where the thinned fruit were added in five orchards in both 1995 and 1996. Postharvest brown rot was also less severe in treatment plots, from one nectarine orchard in 1996, where thinned fruit were completely removed than where thinned fruit were not removed. No difference was observed in both pre and postharvest brown rot of fruit from treatment plots where thinned fruit were racked from "dry" berms into "wet" irrigation drenches than when thinned fruit was left untouched in two nectarine orchards. Our results suggest that thinned fruit can function as a significant source of secondary inoculum for M. fructicola and brown rot disease can be reduced by destroying thinned fruit. SOURCE: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/IPMPROJECT/1998/98biorational.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From the Good Fruit Grower (Yakima, WA): ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Researchers have yet to find a biological fungicide effective against brown rot, although they have identified cultural practices that can increase disease incidence, and are studying yeasts as potential combatants. The influence of excessive nitrogen, composted waste, thinning practices, and yeasts upon brown rot have been studied by Dr. Themis Michailides, associate professor of plant pathology for University of California (UC), Davis. Stationed at UC's Kearney Agricultural Center in Parlier, he has examined many approaches to reduce brown rot problems. Although it has long been recognized that fertilization practices affect levels of plant diseases, until recently, there were few good examples reinforcingthat concept. Data from research studying the effects of nitrogen on Fantasia nectarines show that blossoms from unfertilized trees resulted in the lowest levels of disease infection. More stamens were infected on blossoms from trees receiving high nitrogen rates (250 and 325 pounds of nitrogen per acre per year) than from trees that were unfertilized, or received 100- and 175-pound rates. Additionally, the higher nitrogen treatments also showed higher disease incidence from the research inoculations in green and mature fruit. Positive correlation was also found in overwintering mummy fruit, which had higher disease incidence from trees in the high nitrogen category. Evaluation of the fruit cuticle weight showed that cuticle thickness was greatest in the unfertilized fruit, decreasing in thickness as the nitrogen rates increased. High nitrogen treatments resulted in denser canopies, which shade fruit to cause thinner cuticles. Postharvest storage potential and brown rot susceptibility are both affected by cuticle thickness and potential water loss. The interdisciplinary research conducted by Michailides, and others, showed that nitrogen fertilizer rates higher than 100 pounds per acre per year on Fantasia nectarines produced no beneficial effects and increased brown rot infection. Michailides is also studying the potential of yeasts to fight M. fructicola, although he said it is too soon to report upon results. When comparing brown rot in a trial of peach trees treated with traditional fertilizers and composts to a plot treated with composted waste from urban yards, he found that the urban compost did not increase or make worse the incidence of brown rot, and may have reduced its severity. He is further studying what may be a connection between the "green waste" and the many yeast spores that were found on the fruit surfaces. Growers frequently overlook the significance of thinned fruit as a source of secondary inoculum in the spread of brown rot. Results from recently completed research show that brown rot was less in nectarine orchards where thinned fruit were completely removed than on those from plots where thinned fruit were left on the floor of the orchard. SOURCE: http://www.goodfruit.com/archive/May1-97/special1.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lisa Skog at U. of Guelph was working on the use of "natural fruit volatiles for reduction of postharvest rot of stonefruits and pears." "Sponsored by the Ontario Research Enhancement Program. Co-operators: Brian McGarvey, Agriculture and Agri-food Canada and Dennis Murr, U.of Guelph. "Various fruit volatiles which are produced as part of the plant's natural volatile profile or in response to mechanical injury, microbial attack or environmental stress are being evaluated as antimicrobial agents. Research is being focussed on reducing brown rot (Monilinia fructicola) and blue mould (Penicillium expansum) of Ontario stonefruits and pears. Once effective compounds have been determined, investigations into the mode of action and application methods appropriate for Ontario industries will occur." SOURCE: http://www.oac.uoguelph.ca/hrio/skog.htm Whether "natural fruit volatiles" would qualify under certification standards is not something I know. Hope this helps. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The shorter the tether, the sooner the goat starves. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 21 23:14:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18231 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28702 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:40:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28642 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.69.30.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.69.30]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25103; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E768FA.6F0E8160@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:16:10 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Rogers CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, janebug@hotmail.com, jlozier@wvu.edu Subject: Re: IFOAM statement at Maastricht -Reply -Reply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2814 Anyone interested in humus, etc., should be certain to read' Humic, Fulvic and Microbial Balance--Organic Soil Conditioning by William Jackson. Until you have read this, you haven't covered the field. Just the references alone, would be worth the time--1500 of them. Ted Rogers wrote: > Jane, thanks for your earlier comment and this response; I am afraid that > any positive feelings I might have had toward IFOAM fell by the wayside > a while back, familiarity and all that (see Bart's comment). Yeah, despite > my discomforts with precision agriculture and some other of the > "advanced approaches" they occasionally show some promise. I am > seeing a great deal of good stuff going on in the so called conventional > realm. I have even run into a few folks who know what humus is and > that it ain't "just organic matter", wonders never cease. > > There are so many structural problems that will take generations to > effect. Where are the truly competent managers of agro-ecosystems in > the numbers necessary to establish what you or I might formulate as an > ideal agrarian system... > > We are very fortunate to have folks like Steve Groff out there slugging; > just wish there were more of them. > > Best, > > Ted > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 04:44:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21210 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA29454 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:18:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29411 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA30192 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:18:02 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25211 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:18:08 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 22 Sep 99 10:11:22 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 22 Sep 99 10:11:06 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:10:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re:IFOAM; Organics and competent leadership -Reply Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <27EB77243DC@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2815 hello, ronald >In Mexico, we have certainly had our share of European colonialist >attitudes in organics, especially as we try to create a Mexican >national certification system and stop having to pay foreign >inspectors $300-$800 per day. you might be interested in a mail from sci.agriculture: ----------------- Subject: Soil Association Report From: "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:08:06 +0100 The Soil Association (in the UK) has produced a report "The Threat to the Organic Meat Market from Increased Inspection Charges" written by Robert Kennard and Richard Young. These two have done sterling work and the report absolutely shreds the Meat Hygiene Service, the Government in general and MAFF in particular. I must admit that this one report is good enough to get me to forgive the Soil Association for it's occassional "Holier than thou" attitude. I got my copy by telephoning 0117 929 0661. The fax number given is 0117 925 2504 and it even has an email address given as info@soilassociation.org This is the sort of document you want to read and then stand over your MP while he/she/it reads it and squirms. ---------- sorry, no further information.... klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 11:33:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25767 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27730 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:41:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27701 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-13-14.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.206]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA23870; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:34:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199909221434.JAA23870@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg" , Subject: Re: Is Dennis Avery a liar and other questions? Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:37:15 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2816 Where do I get ahold of this John Robbins peice? What I think is destabilizing to rural communities is the US mentality that animals have to be raised on exclusive grain diets in sunless, cruel, concentrated environments. The average system does pose a lot of social, environmental, and economic risks to consumers and farmers alike. There are alternatives. It is not the animals that are the problem. It is the system. Animal production can play a key role in sustainable agriculture. In fact, I'm still trying to understand how large scale organic production can be done without animal production. The soil building qualities of intensive grazing and compost from livestock manure are too numerous to mention. Before we even start mentioning the gross sales per acre compared with crops. Besides, where do most of these grains go anyhow? What I would like to hear discussion on is the sustainability of organic farms in the US midwest without livestock either in the rotation or as part of the nutrient source. I don't think they are very common. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Free Range hog, chicken, and rabbit farmer ---------- > From: Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Is Dennis Avery a liar and other questions? > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 1:27 PM > > Hello again, > > I've been following the Dennis Avery threads and reading John Robbins > and I have to admit, I am really confused. I went to college for three > years during which time the vast majority of my classes were in the > physical sciences so I am almost completely unfamiliar with biological > science. What I don't understand is this; how can scientists in the > same discipline come up with different answers to the same questions? > That is pretty darn impossible in physics and math so why is it so > common in these other scientific disciplines? Is somebody lying? I > have a hard time believing that because nobody wins if the environment > is destroyed. It's not like there's another planet for the well heeled > to run to. > > I have read some of Dennis Avery's words and he is a smooth talking > guy. He is also, I think, clearly intelligent. Clinton was a Rhodes > scholar. John Robbins presents what seems to be a clear picture that > meat production is destabilizing other economies, causing wide spread > hunger and is responsible for untold environmental damage. Add to this > picture the consequences of the global market which tend to force the > price of commodities ever downward and it all seems like "A Really Bad > Idea" yet Clinton and I presume Gore and I presume George W., should he > get elected, and Reagan, and Bush etc... are now or have been promoting > these policies. Why? > > Not even the greediest, most unscrupulous person in the world would set > fire to a house he cannot leave to make a profit. > > Another question: how does vertical integration differ from a monopoly? > It's been a long time since I studied monopolies but they seem to pretty > much the same thing. > > Is Monsanto doing anything, actually as opposed to some day in some > hypothetical future, to combat world hunger? From what I've read, they > are contributing to hunger by promoting those crops that take arable > land out of local food production by concentrating on feed grade > soybeans and corn and cotton. Do they know this? I know somebody who > retired from Monsanto and he seem's like a nice guy. > > All my information is second hand but I do see that most of the people > who are pro GM etc..., make their living from the mega corps. And I > find it deeply troubling that these same people seem to be in and out of > government jobs. Still, I come back to my basic premise: No one sets > his house on fire. > > Thanks > > Sasha > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 13:16:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29048 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20541 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:29:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20496 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26856 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id MAA29733 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:28:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:28:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: ARS News: Will Pasteurization Make Manure Safer? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2817 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:03:54 -0300 From: ARS News Service To: ARS News List Subject: Will Pasteurization Make Manure Safer? NEWS RELEASE: Research to Pasteurize Manure Featured at Chesapeake Bay Day ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, dcomis@asrr.arsusda.gov September 22, 1999 ----------- BELTSVILLE, Md., Sept. 21--Agricultural Research Service administrator Floyd P. Horn announced today the start of an experiment to see if pasteurization is an effective means of killing E. coli, Cryptosporidium parvum and other pathogens possibly lurking in cow manure, to make sure it can be used safely to improve soils. "N-Viro, International, of Toledo, Ohio, has loaned the U.S. Department of Agriculture patented equipment used to pasteurize biosolids--the solids remaining after wastewater treatment," Horn said. "The equipment turns the sludge into 'N-Viro Soil,' a product that meets the strictest federal standards for safe biosolids." Horn said N-Viro moved the equipment--a vertical and horizontal silo with a manure hopper and mixing bins in between--to a composting facility at USDA's Beltsville (Md.) Agricultural Research Center. He said the equipment mixes recycled materials like cement or lime kiln dust, coal ash from electric power plants, and gypsum with manure. A natural chemical reaction occurs when the lime or other high-calcium material hits the manure, creating heat, ammonia and high pH that kill pathogens. The equipment can be seen on a tour of the composting facility as part of the first Beltsville Chesapeake Bay Day activities on Sept. 28 at the research center, operated by ARS, USDA's chief scientific agency. Horn said Patricia D. Millner, research leader of the Soil Microbial Systems Laboratory in Beltsville, has begun experiments to compare pasteurization with composting. Millner said she will assess each system for its ability to kill pathogens and control odor. She will also test a hybrid system that combines quicker composting with the pasteurization technique. Millner said she wants to see if the pasteurization process will also convert phosphorus in manure to a form less likely to leach into streams and rivers. "We will also test the addition of materials such as alum residue from wastewater treatment plants for their ability to stabilize phosphorus in manure," she said. Horn said if the experiment works it could help areas such as the Chesapeake Bay both by preventing the escape of pathogens and phosphorus and by providing a safe outlet for two materials found in excess in Chesapeake Bay coastal areas: high-phosphorus chicken litter and harbor dredging spoils. "We will try pasteurizing chicken manure in a mixture of dredging spoils to convert the spoils into a substitute soil for reclamation of road cuts, strip mines and other degraded soil sites that need topsoil for plant growth," he said. A complete agenda and free online registration for the Beltsville Chesapeake Bay Day is on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ba.ars.usda.gov/bayday.htm ---------- Scientific contact: Patricia D. Millner, Soil Microbial Systems Laboratory, ARS Beltsville Agricultural Research Center, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-8163, fax (301) 504-8370, pmillner@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isjd@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 13:17:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29082 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18800 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:24:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18788 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29511 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from debheleb.uvm.edu (132.198.166.38) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.E59D56B0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:23:30 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990922122639.00858010@pop.uvm.edu> X-Sender: dheleba@pop.uvm.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:26:39 -0400 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: "Debra M. Heleba" Subject: Int'l Dairy Sheep Conference in VT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA18791 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2818 To sanet list, The following is a press release about an upcoming dairy sheep conference scheduled for November 4-6 in Brattleboro, Vermont. Deb INTERNATIONAL DAIRY SHEEP CONFERENCE TO BE HELD NOV. 4-6 IN SOUTHERN VERMONT Brattleboro, Vt.--In the United States, sheep traditionally have been raised for wool or meat, but interest in raising them for cheese and other dairy products has been increasing in the past few years. An international conference is planned for Nov. 4-6 in Brattleboro, Vt., for dairy sheep producers and others interested in learning more about this industry. Speakers from France, Canada, and several states will discuss management techniques, production, marketing, and research. The conference, the Great Lakes Dairy Sheep Symposium, has been held in Wisconsin for four years. This is the first time another state has been asked to host the conference. It will be held at the Quality Inn in Brattleboro with tours to sheep dairies in Vermont and New York. The conference fee is $60, and $30 for each additional member of the family or farm operation, for registrations received by Oct. 15. Late registrations will be charged an additional $10. The fee covers lunch on Friday and Saturday plus tours. The Friday night banquet, featuring local products, will be held at the nationally acclaimed Putney Inn. The cost is an extra $25 per adult, $10 to 14 per child depending on entre. For a registration form, or if requiring special assistance to attend, call the Center for Sustainable Agriculture at (802) 656-5459, email susagctr@zoo.uvm.edu or visit the conference website at http://www.uvm.edu/~susagctr/SheepSymposium.html. Conference participants should contact the hotel directly to reserve their rooms. The number is (802) 254-8701. A special conference room rate of $59 for double occupancy will be available for rooms booked by Oct. 4. On Nov. 4, the first day of the conference, participants will tour the Old Chatham Sheepherding Company in Old Chatham, N.Y., the largest sheep dairy in the United States and one of the country's first sheep milk cheese makers. The dairy milks 1,000 ewes and buys additional fluid milk from Wisconsin's dairies for its assortment of cheeses. The farm has a state-of-the-art milking parlor outfitted with equipment from Italy, a large producer of sheep's milk cheese, and a new creamery. The following day the program opens with a talk by Dr. Franois Bocquier on the effects of nutrients on ewes' milk quality. Bocquier is a small ruminant nutritionist with the National Institute of Agronomic Research in Theix, France. Yves Berger of the University of Wisconsin-Madison will discuss the effect of various weaning systems on commercial milk yield and lamb production. Participants also will learn about herd health management and recordkeeping, new sheep research, and farm adapted breeds. The latter will feature a panel discussion with Vermont and Canadian sheep producers sharing information about their flocks. On the final day of the conference, participants will have a chance to visit the Major Farm in Westminister West, home to Vermont Shepherd's cheese room and aging cave. Vermont Shepherd cheese is a traditional, aged, sheep's milk cheese that has won numerous national awards for its fine flavor, including a blue ribbon at this year's American Cheese Council for farmhouse sheep cheese. The tour will include a look at the cave with optional tours to nearby sheep dairies that produce green cheeses for Vermont Shepherd. The annual Vermont Sheeposium in Randolph, Vt., on Nov. 6 coincides with the last day of the conference. Anyone wishing to attend this instead of the tour should contact Tom Bennett at (802) 229-4020 for information on the program and registration fee. The Great Lakes Dairy Sheep Symposium is sponsored by the University of Vermont (UVM) Small Ruminant Dairy Project; UVM Extension; the Spooner Agricultural Research Station at the University of Wisconsin--Madison; and the Babcock Institute for International Dairy Research and Development. -30- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Debra M. Heleba UVM Center for Sustainable Agriculture 590 Main Street, Room 200 Burlington, Vermont 05405 tel: (802) 656-0233 fax: (802) 656-8874 email: dheleba@zoo.uvm.edu http://www.uvm.edu/~susagctr To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 16:02:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03926 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09842 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:11:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s2k.itribe.net (s2k.itribe.net [209.49.144.208]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09787 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:11:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from picusnet.com (36.dialup05.picus.com [207.7.93.237]) by s2k.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA13844; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:06:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E928AB.17015006@picusnet.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:06:20 -0400 From: Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-RCN032399 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" References: <199909221434.JAA23870@billman.kuntrynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2819 Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > Where do I get ahold of this John Robbins peice? John Robbins has written at least two books. The one I have finished reading is "May All Be Fed". His premise is not that meat production is destabilizing Rural American communities but that it is causing famine in South America and Africa as more and more arable land is taken out of the production of food staples and planted to feed grade soy beans and other grains which are then exported primarily to the U.S., Canada, Europe and Japan. And yes, the import of these commodities is a direct result of the feed lot system but also of the amount of meat we see fit to raise. I do not agree with everything John Robbins writes. I, too, think that animals are necessary to organic farming and I do eat meat. However, he makes a compelling case that large scale meat production in the U.S. etc..., is directly responsible for much of the famine and hunger that exists today. I did not mean to suggest that John Robbins believes that wide spread hunger and poverty lead to instability and that such 'instability' is very contagious, these are my beliefs.. It is also my belief that the "global marketplace" is a disaster and that its dynamic almost requires that the prices of the food and goods we consume in the "developed" nations must continue to go down. As more and more land is put into animal production, the prices will continue to drop which, of course, will require that even more land be taken out of food production and given over to animal production etc., etc.. In an Interview in 'Acres', Fred Kirshenmann, an organic farmer and rancher, made a point that what we don't need small scale food production as much as we need food production to be done on an "appropriate scale". I absolutely agree with this and with Joel Salatin's position that most of the environmental damage that results from modern day meat production is a consequence of the concentration of animals in feed lots and factory 'farms' as well as the practice of feeding grazing animals grains. Mr. Kirschenmann, also states that he feeds his animals "crop residues" rather then "cash grain" although he does have pasture land that has never been plowed. I would go further than Joel Salatin or Fred Kirschenmann but not quite as far as John Robbins. I do not believe that any land should be given over to animal production unless there is enough locally grown food available to feed the area's population and absolutely not for export. At the same time, it makes sense to me that having pasture as part of a rotation and grazing animals on it helps the soil maintain its fertility. Even dedicated pasture land, like the 900 acres on Mr. Kirschenmann's farm, has a place and most localities have some land that really is unsuited to any kind of cropping, raising animals on such land seems like the perfect use for it. I think you run into more problems with poultry and dairy production because then, it seems, that it really is difficult to raise the animals without supplemental grain feeding and particularly if you want reliable egg and milk production. But this is all book learning for me. I don't have any real experience. Believe me, if you lived anywhere near me, I would be at your door with purse in hand. I really miss my bacon and I caved the other day and bought some in the grocery store. Sasha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 17:10:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05451 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25673 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:33:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from psci.net (psci.net [63.65.184.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25640 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from as1-d195-sc-psci.psci.net [63.65.186.195] by psci.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9733BBB00E4; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:34:27 -0500 Received: by as1-d195-sc-psci.psci.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BF050F.7747B660@as1-d195-sc-psci.psci.net>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:30:57 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF050F.7747B660@as1-d195-sc-psci.psci.net> From: "Kenneth J. Eck" To: "'ARCH-L@listserv.tamu.edu'" , "'sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Information Specialist Position - Soil Conservation, #2, Ind. Dept. of Nat. Resources Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:28:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA25644 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2820 INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES VACANCY ANNOUNCEMENT SALARIED POSITIONX PCN 150-010-000-04-00010 BI-WEEKLY RATE: $1180 TITLE/POSITION: Program Director 1 (Information Specialist) CLASS CODE: 2WM1 DIVISION/PROPERTY: Division of Soil Conservation LOCATION (CITY & COUNTY): Indianapolis, Marion JOB DESCRIPTION: The Information Specialist is responsible for conception, writing, editing, layout and production of all informational products of Division programs including newsletter, brochures, displays, exhibits, website, video and computer presentations. Plans and develops information/education/marketing strategies for Division programs. Works with individuals from other state, federal, and local agencies in partnership approach to addressing natural resource management information and education needs. EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS: At least three years of applicable experience in natural resource management, communications, information technology or marketing. Knowledge of soil & water conservation practices is preferred. Strong verbal and written communication skills required. Advanced computer skills and extensive experience in word processing, data base management, graphics applications, desktop publishing, and/or Internet website management required. Specialized knowledge of principles of photography, artistic composition, layout and design of publications preferred. ACADEMIC REQUIREMENT: Bachelor's Degree in agriculture, natural resources, communications, education, journalism, marketing or closely related field. CLOSING DATE FOR APPLICATIONS: September 24, 1999. ALL INQUIRIES REGARDING VACANCIES SHOULD BE REFERRED TO: DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES HUMAN RESOURCES DIVISION 402 W. WASHINGTON, W261 IGCS INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA 46204 DIVISION CONTACT PERSON: Gregory L. Biberdorf, Chief of Budget and Personnel PHONE: (317)-233-3870 DATE: August 30, 1999 _______________________________________________________________________ POSITION CONTROL NUMBER: 150-010-000-04-00010 PAT BENCHMARK JOB DESCRIPTION DIVISION OF SOIL CONSERVATION INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES CLASS TITLE: PROGRAM DIRECTOR 1 WORKING TITLE: Information Specialist DUTIES: Incumbent serves at the senior level as an information specialist for the Division, responsible for conception, writing, editing, layout and production of all informational products of Division programs including monthly newsletter, brochures, publications, displays and exhibits, maintenance and updates to Division's internet website, and video or computer presentations. Incumbent works with all programs including Lake and River Enhancement, Stormwater and Sediment Control, Agricultural Conservation, Soil and Water Conservation District Capacity (SWCD) Building, Hoosier Riverwatch, and Project Wet. Provides technical expertise in writing, editing and associated production tasks for other Division staff. Representative duties includes: Designs/creates educational and informational materials, programs, and exhibits for all programs of the Division. Serves as editor for all written informational and educational materials created by other Division staff. Plans, develops, and implements information/marketing strategies in cooperation with appropriate Division staff to further the development, promotion and visibility of all Division programs and initiatives. Develops training materials, videos, brochures, and displays for use by Division staff and SWCDs. Edits and produces monthly newsletter, Topsoil, for statewide distribution. Maintains and updates the Division's Internet website. Coordinates program development for the training programs for SWCD supervisors and employees. Performs other related duties as assigned. Job Requirements Bachelor of Science degree from an accredited university or college in agriculture, natural resources, communications, education, journalism, marketing, or a closely-related field and at least three years of applicable experience in natural resource management, communications, information technology or marketing. Knowledge of theories, principles, and practices in the area of erosion and sediment control and water quality is preferred. Strong verbal and written communication skills. Advanced computer skills and extensive experience in word processing, data base management, graphics applications, Internet website management, and desktop publishing. Specialized knowledge of principles of photography, artistic composition, and technical aspects of photographic/electronic image production. Specialized knowledge of technical aspects of display design, layout, and construction. Exceptional organizational skills and ability to adapt to and prioritize variable assignments. Occasional statewide travel; includes night meetings and overnight lodging. Ability to maintain a valid Indiana Driver's license. Difficulty of Work Incumbent performs duties under overall policy guidelines of the Department and Division, and State Soil Conservation Board. Incumbent must work cooperatively with many organizations and levels of government to effectively perform his/her duties and achieve the objectives of the Division, Board, and Department. Incumbent must use creativity, ingenuity, and work with multiple disciplines in developing informational and educational products regarding complex natural resource management issues including soil erosion and water quality enhancement. III. Responsibility Incumbent is responsible to the Division's Chief of Budget and Personnel. Incumbent performs work independently under Department and Division guidelines with minimal daily supervision or guidance. Work must be accurate and complete; errors can result in project delays, ineffectiveness, increased expenses, anxiety, added costs to clientele, and impaired relations with the public, other agencies and organizations. Work Relationships Incumbent is in frequent contact with other personnel of the Division and Department, Purdue University Cooperative Extension Service, SWCDs, USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service, private consultants, organizations and agencies, media representatives, landusers and contractors, and the general public. All duties must be performed in an accurate, ethical, and courteous manner. V. Physical Effort and Work Environment Incumbent works in an office environment. Incumbent will have some travel statewide for meetings and assignments at all times of the year and in varying weather conditions. I acknowledge that the above description is a representation of the major duties and responsibilities of this position. ______________________________________ __________________ Employee Date ______________________________________ __________________ Employee's Supervisor Date To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 17:10:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05456 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25576 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:32:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from psci.net (psci.net [63.65.184.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25554 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:32:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from as1-d195-sc-psci.psci.net [63.65.186.195] by psci.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A93FDCF011C; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:33:35 -0500 Received: by as1-d195-sc-psci.psci.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BF050F.599EF060@as1-d195-sc-psci.psci.net>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:30:07 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF050F.599EF060@as1-d195-sc-psci.psci.net> From: "Kenneth J. Eck" To: "'ARCH-L@listserv.tamu.edu'" , "'sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Information & Publication Specialist - Soil Conservation #1 , Purdue University/IDNR Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:23:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA25556 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2821 Department of Agronomy Purdue University West Lafayette, Indiana 47907 Position Announcement A contracted position through Purdue University Title: Information and Publication Specialist Location: Indiana Government Center office, Indianapolis, Indiana DUTIES: As an information and publication specialist, a contracted position through Purdue University, for the Indiana Department of Natural Resources, Division of Soil Conservation (Division) responsible for conception, writing, editing, layout and production of all informational products of Division programs including monthly newsletter, brochures, publications, displays and exhibits, maintenance and updates to Division's internet website, and video or computer presentations. Specialist works with all programs including Lake and River Enhancement, Stormwater and Sediment Control, Agricultural Conservation, Soil and Water Conservation District Capacity Building, Hoosier River Watch, and Project WET. Provides technical expertise in writing, editing and associated production tasks for other Division staff. Representative duties includes: * Designs/creates educational, training informational materials, and exhibits for all programs of the Division. * Plans, develops, and implements information/marketing strategies in cooperation with appropriate Division staff to further the development, promotion, and visibility of all Division programs and initiatives. * Serves as editor for all written informational and educational materials created by other Division staff. * Edits and produces monthly newsletter, Topsoil, for statewide distribution. * Coordinates program development training for SWCD supervisors and employees. * Maintains and updates the Division's Internet website. * Performs other related duties as assigned. Education and Experience Bachelor of Science degree from an accredited university or college in agriculture, natural resources, communications, education, journalism, marketing, or a closely-related field and at least three years of applicable experience in natural resource management, communication, information technology or marketing. The specialist should also be knowledgeable and/or understand the following: * Knowledge of theories, principles, and practices in the area of erosion and sediment control and water quality are preferred. * Strong verbal and written communication skills. * Advanced computer skills and extensive experience in word processing, data base management, graphics applications, Internet website management, and desktop publishing. * Specialized knowledge of principles of photography, artistic composition, and technical aspects of photographic/electronic image production. * Specialized knowledge of technical aspects of display design, layout, and construction. * Exceptional organizational skills and ability to adapt to and prioritize variable assignments. * Occasional statewide travel; includes night meetings and overnight lodging. * Ability to maintain a valid Indiana Driver's license. Assignment Performs duties under overall policy guidelines of Purdue University, Division, and State Soil Conservation Board. Must work cooperatively with many organizations and levels of government to effectively perform his/her duties and achieve the objectives of Purdue University, Division, and State Soil Conservation Board. Specialist must use creativity, ingenuity, and work with multiple disciplines in developing informational and educational products regarding complex natural resource management issues including soil erosion and water quality enhancement. Responsibility The specialist is responsible to the Department Head of Agronomy, Purdue University and the Division's Chief of Budget and Personnel. Specialist performs work independently with minimal daily supervision or guidance. Work must be accurate and complete. Position Relationships Specialist is in frequent contact with other personnel of Purdue University, the Division and other Departments of IDNR, Cooperative Extension Service, SWCDs, USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service, private consultants, organizations and agencies, media representatives, landusers and contractors, and the general public. All duties must be performed in an accurate, ethical, and courteous manner. Position Status: A professional non-tenured position. The salary will be commensurate with qualifications and experience. For more information regarding the position contact, Jim Krejci, (765) 494-4795 (office phone); jmkrejci@purdue.edu (email). Application Deadline: September 30, 1999, or until suitable applicant is selected. To apply send a cover letter, resume, transcripts and names, addresses and telephone numbers for three references to: Dr. W. W. McFee, Head Department of Agronomy 1150 Lilly Hall Purdue University West Lafayette, IN 47907-1150 Purdue University is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer RESPONSIBILITIES Describe the ESSENTIAL and OTHER responsibilities of this position, in order of importance. ESSENTIAL responsibilities are those functions that the individual who holds the position is normally required to perform and their removal would fundamentally alter the purpose of the position. OTHER responsibilities are functions that are performed as part of the position but their removal does not fundamentally alter the position. (See guidelines for more information.) Indicate the percent of the total time devoted to each responsibility in the space provided. Attach additional pages if necessary. RESPONSIBILITIES PERCENT ============================================================================= Representative duties includes: * Designs/creates educational, training informational 30% materials, and exhibits for all programs of the Division. * Plans, develops, and implements information/marketing 30% strategies in cooperation with appropriate Division staff to further the development, promotion, and visibility of all Division programs and initiatives. * Serves as editor for all written informational and 10% educational materials created by other Division staff. * Edits and produces monthly newsletter, Topsoil, for 10% statewide distribution. * Coordinates program development training for SWCD 10% supervisors and employees. * Maintains and updates the Division's Internet website. 5% * Performs other related duties as assigned. 5% === 100% ______________________ _____ _______________________ _______ Supervisor's Signature Date Dept. Head's Signature Date This description identifies the specific duties and responsibilities and indicates the kinds of tasks and levels of work difficulty required of positions with this title. It is not intended to limit or modify the right of any supervisor to assign and direct the work of employees. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 17:10:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05468 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25945 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:35:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25918 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id PAA80364 (8.9.1/50); Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:33:51 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990922153510.0078fcec@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:35:10 -0500 To: citnet-list@citnet.org, ecomda@danenet.wicip.org, peermail@envirolink.org, ppa-greatlakes@igc.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: WI pesticide use database release Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2822 Times New RomanFYI -- m3 For Immediate Release: For More Information Contact:=20 Times New RomanSeptember 22, 1999 Jane Shibilski - Wis. PTA (715) 847- 2244 outTom Dawson - Wis. Strat. Pesticide Info. Project (608) 294-9026 Groups Assail Agriculture Secretary's Secrecy=20 Stance Coalition Voices Criticism Of Ag Secretary's Opposition to Public Right to Know Milwaukee/Madison=97Today members of a broad coalition of health, public interest and environmental organizations assailed=20 Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection Secretary Ben Brancel's demand for blanket secrecy for pesticide applicators as a condition for a proposed pesticide use database. The Pesticide Database System (PDS) is part of the budget bill=20 deadlocked in the Legislative budget conference committee. Conference Committee leaders asked Secretary Brancel and database supporters to meet in an attempt to break the deadlock. A coalition of health, medical, agricultural, parent, educational, conservation, government and environmental groups support the PDS. Chemical manufacturers, sellers and commercial users oppose the PDS proposal. "DATCP is supposed to be protecting the public from pesticides. When I heard the head of DATCP was demanding blanket secrecy for all pesticide user information, I was stunned," said Kathy Johnson, president of the Wisconsin League of Women Voters. "The public has a right to know.=20 Pesticides don't have a right to privacy. Pesticide lawn signs are a perfect example," she said. "State agency heads should be protecting the public's right- to-know, not fronting for industry groups who repress it," she said. Johnson cited lobbying by pest control companies for=20 confidentiality of their practices if the database is created.=20 Brancel took the position on pesticide secrecy on September, 15, 1999, when he met for a second time with database supporters. One of the negotiators, Wisconsin Strategic Pesticide Information Project Director Tom Dawson, recently reported to coalition partners, "Secretary Brancel said he would not agree to any bill that does not provide permanent automatic blanket confidentiality to all persons who report pesticide use information to the database, even in public schools, day care centers, government property, and public accommodations." Medical researchers and government agencies could use the data, but only if they kept the data secret from public view. "This position is both a surprise and major disappointment," he said. On hearing of Secretary Brancel's position, the Milwaukee-based=20 Sixteenth Street Community Health Center Environmental Health Director Peter McAvoy, said, "Health researchers aren't the only ones who need this information. Parents need it too." "If we expect parents to take an active role in disease prevention for their children and themselves, we have to give them the tools to make intelligent decisions. That means making site-specific pesticide use data publicly accessible," McAvoy said. Wisconsin Breast Cancer Coalition President Peggy Schuemann of Milwaukee was more pointed. "The idea of suppressing pesticide use information that is needed by ordinary people to learn about and avoid pesticide exposures is unthinkable." "Since when do chemical companies have the right to keep secret where their pesticide chemicals are used?" she asked. "Children's health needs to be the public's primary concern- not=20 the confidentiality fears of privately owned chemical companies," said Jane Shibilski, immediate past president of the Wisconsin Parent Teacher Association, citing last year's debacle in which the public records law forced Brancel to back away from granting blanket confidentiality to information collected during a state funded school pesticide use survey.=20 "Taxpayers shouldn't have to go to each and every school their children attend to find out what's going on, especially when a public database can be just a click away on a web site," said Shibilski. "Creating a loophole in the public records law for chemical trucks to drive through is a dangerous precedent," she said. "A pesticide database for our schools and other places where our children live and play should be an open and accessible to all community members," she said. "As a farmer who is trained to use pesticides properly, I have=20 nothing to hide and will gladly report my pesticide use practices if=20 that is what we need," said cash grain farmer John Pounder. "What's the big deal? It's no secret farmers and lawn companies use pesticides.=20 Let's put the information to work," he said. "Secretary Brancel's demand completely undermines the idea of providing citizens the tool they need to prevent unwanted pesticide exposures," said Susan Mudd, State Director for Citizens for a Better Environment who also attended last week's meeting with DATCP. "Thousands of people throughout Wisconsin are demanding they be given the right to know where pesticides are used so they can protect their children, their pets and themselves. Brancel is choosing to ignore the "Consumer Protection" mission of his state agency," she said. =20 =20 ### Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 20:14:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08181 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:14:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02772 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:20:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02743 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:20:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26891>; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:29:55 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg cc: Greg & Lei Gunthorp , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Sep22.182955cdt.26891@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2823 Sasha wrote: >John Robbins has written at least two books. The one I have finished reading is >"May All Be Fed". His premise is not that meat production is destabilizing >Rural American communities but that it is causing famine in South America and >Africa as more and more arable land is taken out of the production of food >staples and planted to feed grade soy beans and other grains which are then >exported primarily to the U.S., Canada, Europe and Japan. And yes, the import >of these commodities is a direct result of the feed lot system but also of the >amount of meat we see fit to raise... (major snip) large scale meat production in the U.S. >etc, is directly responsible for much of the famine and hunger that exists today. Pat: Mark Twain once said: "Dont disturb my logic with facts!" The USA indeed consumes the most soymeal of any country, but it also produces the most. In fact, the USA exports 6-8 million tons per year of soymeal used as protein supplement in livestock feeds. Canada is also a net exporter of protein meals (peas, canola meal & flaxmeal), albeit a smaller one. Europe does buy some protein meal- their ag policy is very complicated_ suffice to say that it pays EU farmers better to grow surplus cereals which are then dumped on world grain markets, rather than to grow oilseeds. They have their own logic & I'm sure it makes some sense to them... "Other grains" I assume to be coarse grains or feed grains such as corn, barley, oats, sorghum primarily fed to animals. The US imports (10 year avg) about 2.5 million tons of combined coarse grains, but exports about 55 million tons! USA & Canada sell about 65% of all the feed grains sold in the world market- most of the rest is from Australia, China, Europe & Argentina so you could argue that starving Africans are not filling feedlots in USA & Canada! Japan buys most of its food offshore, so I'm not surprised that they buy about 30% of the world trade in feed grain & a large portion of the protein meal sold in Asia. However, the Japanese are not big meat eaters, so starving Africans are not filling Japanese feedlots either... If someone wants a reference for the stats, I can supply it. I guess I have a problem with the guy saying that people are starving somewhere; feed grains are being grown in starving countries & shipped to rich countries & meat eating is the cause of starvation. People may be starving in Africa or S America, but I think its because they either don't have jobs so they can't pay for commercial food, or don't have access to land to be able to produce their own food. Or, more insidiously, they live in a country like Sudan, where a ruling minority group with more guns has decided to exterminate the indigenous people by using access to food as a weapon... (Where are the B-52's when we need them?) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 22 21:52:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09594 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:52:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19708 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:26:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from spdmraaa.compuserve.com (ds-img-rel-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19573 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) id VAA19584 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.192.97.101] (hil-qbu-ptt-vty55.as.wcom.net [206.175.110.55]) by spdmraaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.0) with ESMTP id VAA19568 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: LawsonValentine@pop.site1.csi.com Message-Id: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:23:57 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Lucy Miller Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2824 > > I guess I have a problem with the guy saying that people are >starving somewhere; feed grains are being grown in starving >countries & shipped to rich countries & meat eating is the cause of >starvation. I think it's worth remembering that Robbins comes from a strong animal rights perspective. This neither validates nor invalidates his arguments, but it might help us spot the spin, if any. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 23 01:36:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13216 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA07413 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:17:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s2k.itribe.net (s2k.itribe.net [209.49.144.208]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07296 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from picusnet.com (19.dialup01.picus.com [207.7.93.28]) by s2k.itribe.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA04462; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E9B6D3.A8D560B1@picusnet.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:12:51 -0400 From: Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-RCN032399 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Elazar CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" References: <99Sep22.182955cdt.26891@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2825 Pat Elazar wrote: > Sasha wrote: > > If someone wants a reference for the stats, I can supply it. I guess I have a > problem with the guy saying that people are starving somewhere; feed grains are > being grown in starving countries & shipped to rich countries & meat eating is > the cause of starvation. People may be starving in Africa or S America, but I > think its because they either don't have jobs so they can't pay for commercial > food, or don't have access to land to be able to produce their own food I don't know, maybe this a war of the stats? I am not generating these, just passing them on. According to John Robbins (and I have read elsewhere that our grain reserves are down to nil, something I personally find hard to believe), we have not had very good crops in the last couple of years and we do not have the grain reserves that people think we do. According to me (having lived in Japan for a few years) and others, meat consumption in Japan specifically and Asia in general has risen dramatically over the last fifteen years or so. As for South America, somebody is buying the grains that are being fed to animals and I do believe that we, among others, are buying the meat that is now being raised on what was once rain forest. Certainly the land is not being used to feed the impoverished South Americans. I don't think the issue is who is buying the meat as much as the fact that it is being bought. Who knows? I haven't been there but some things are obvious and some things "ring true", at least to me. We produce and take in a tremendous amount of animal protein. Most of this production seems to have negative consequences for a whole lot of people. Not counting grass fed cattle and feed animals that make use of otherwise non-productive land, feeding cattle makes less food potentially available to feed people--the conversion is what 16 pounds of feed/1 lb of person if that feed goes through a cow first?. In the U.S., we could, I believe, feed everyone well and still produce nearly as much meat as we do although there would still be negative environmental and health consequences given the amount of meat we consume and the manner in which we raise cattle. However, In countries were severe hunger, bordering on starvation, occurs, land that is used to produce animal feed, whether the feed is exported or the meat is exported, is a significant factor in causing that hunger. Of course, the production of so called "cash crops" is also a factor as well as the political systems that let people starve, not to mention wars and the odd drought. I suppose the mistake lies in focusing solely on one aspect of a problem. But it is difficult not to, given that most people gain their expertise in one field. Certainly John Robbins lays a lot of the world's misery at those cloven hoofed feet, maybe more than is justified, but there has to be some goal that is being met by cutting down rain forest and confiscating the land of small land holders. Sasha To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 23 13:21:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05482 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12110 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:40:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12017 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04798 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:39:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37EA657C.13E72EA9@uoguelph.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:38:05 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: on Sustainable Meat Production (long) References: <99Sep22.182955cdt.26891@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2AA6C0D0B1D709673FC872D7" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2826 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2AA6C0D0B1D709673FC872D7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat: you are right. In a nutshell, "Them's that eats is them's that pays". Global starvation has little if anything to do with confinement feeding systems in the US. This is BY NO MEANS a justification for confinement feeding systems, but a simple statement of fact. Starving people and confinement feeding are two separate, but parallel issues - each involving "grain" or food nutrients, but for different reasons. The central problem of the US (and perhaps other grain-exporting countries as well) has always been overproduction. We produce more than we can sell, so we search creatively for ways of absorbing the excess (e.g. anyone remember PL480?) so we can produce yet more. Sound a little circular? There is a logic to it, but you have to be imaginative to follow it. Why do farmers continually strive for higher yields, more milk/cow, faster rate of gain in steers, hogs, etc? Because we, in university and government ag research, give them the tools and varieties/hybrids to do it, and industry feeds them all the promos, peer-incentives, and paint to make it seem attractive. Why do we strive so hard to produce more, when all it does it drive down the price, tighten the margin on what we do produce (the difference between cost of and value of production), and oblige us to get bigger, and buy more inputs, to produce more, just to stay in business? They call it a treadmill, and so it is. If your goal (as a research community) was to support and sustain the farming community and natural environment, while ensuring abundant and healthy food for society - which is what all the platitudes say - this would be nonsensical. Continued overproduction, particularly using techniques that are increasingly harmful to both human (farmer and consumer) health and the environment, is fundamentally incompatible with the goal of *serving* the farming community, protecting natural resources, and producing safe food for society. Indeed, it is the antithesis of this goal. Clearly, and I would welcome ideas to the contrary, the goal is NOT to sustain the farming ommunity...etc, but something else. The beneficiary of our hard work - and our real client(s) - may become clearer if we consider who it is that *has* benefited from sustained overproduction, narrow production margins, and a continually declining farm population. a. Some say society benefits, because food is cheaper. Hard argument to make, when such a small fraction of the dollar value spent by consumers for "food" actually gets to the farmer. Most - and it is over 90% for many prepared foods, including a loaf of bread - goes to marketers, processors, and other post-farmgate segments in the food chain. So, the price that farmers receive for their products has remarkably little bearing on the value of food to consumers. Cheap food may have been a real goal decades ago, but today, it is a specious if compelling argument. Everybody likes a bargain. b. OK, if not society, then who? Farmers? Someone once said that ag researchers must be the only class of people in the world who rate their success on how many of their own clients they can drive out of business. Perhaps, maybe 40 years ago, farmers were delighted to leave their land and get to the city, and it may well have been a blessing to give them the tools and reasons to leave farming. But that "joy of release" sure doesn't pertain today, when many farm families are hanging desperately onto their land and their home, working part time and doing without, just to make it through another year. Do the figures on standard of living, rate of suicide and abuse, etc. bear out the premise that farmers have benefited from higher yields and high-tech agriculture? I think not. c. OK, so if it is not consumer and farmers, who is left? The environment? Nuf said. d. That leaves.....what other segment of ag and food? Those who supply the inputs, upon which high yields are based, and who purchase, market, trade, process, and sell the products. This brief amateur analysis (with apologies to those of you who do this for a living), suggests that all available evidence is inconsistent with the premise that the high yield agriculture paradigm which we in the publicly funded research community have nurtured with such care is serving society, farmers, or the environment - our ostensible "clients". The inference is inescapable - we are serving another sector entirely, even to the point of disenfranchising our own mandated clients. Now, against this background, consider the evolution of confinement-feeding systems. Feeding grain to livestock (and esp. to classes of livestock that can do very nicely, thank you very much, without grain entirely) has always been a way of buffering against either the weather or the market. Rain-damaged grain could still be fed to stock - not a complete loss. If the market favors fat cattle, then keep the grain and feed them out. Fair enough. But now, confinement feeding has become the tail that is wagging the dog. Some 70-90% of all grain produced in North America is grown specifically for livestock feeding. Imagine it! And why? because livestock are quite inefficient at converting grain, and hence, consume a lot of cheap grain to produce products that we value - meat, milk, etc. What better way to justify and absorb ever higher grain yields, while at the same time, producing a "value-added" product? An acre of "milk" is worth a great deal more than as acre of "corn" - particularly to those processing the milk. Indeed, it could be argued that confinement feeding systems were, at least at one time, a logical solution to the problem of overproduction. The only problem is that now our capacity to absorb livestock products is saturated, and grain overproduction has even overshot this solution, yet we continue to produce still more that we still can't sell. Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that there are not starving people who would benefit from grain - ideally, their own grain, produced by their own hands on their own farms. But they are not going to benefit from "our" grain, even if we stopped feeding it to livestock (which we *should* do, but for other reasons)- because they don't have the money to buy it. The same is true of genetic engineering. People are hungry for reasons that have remarkably little to do with corn genetics, and everything to do with entitlement and accessibility. It is important to look closely at causality in these kinds of disputes, to avoid the pitfalls of false assumptions - intentional (a la Avery) or otherwise. Ann --------------2AA6C0D0B1D709673FC872D7 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------2AA6C0D0B1D709673FC872D7-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 23 16:59:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09773 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14355 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:28:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14257 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15258 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-11-41.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.185]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA22834; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:21:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199909232021.PAA22834@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: Cc: "sanet" Subject: raw/pasteurized cream Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:23:47 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2827 Does anyone have any information on the shelf life of raw cream? How long can it stay refrigerated before it has to be pasteurized? Thanks, Greg Gunthorp To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 23 17:00:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09785 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13925 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:27:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13851 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id PAA18566 (8.9.1/50); Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:26:08 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990923152732.019d6194@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:27:32 -0500 To: citnet-list@citnet.org, mkd-priority@umich.edu, ppa-greatlakes@igc.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Please read! The Hunger Site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2828 Well worth a minute of your time! -----Original Message----- From: Mukesh Desai Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:23 PM Subject: Please read! The Hunger Site THE HUNGER SITE http://www.thehungersite.com This is a really commendable and important website. All you have to do is click a button and somewhere in the world a hungry person gets a meal to eat, at no cost to you. The food is paid for by corporate sponsors. Donations are routed through the United Nations World Food Program. The stats on hunger are sobering: every 3.6 seconds someone dies from hunger, usually chronic malnutrition, yielding a total of 24,000 people a day. All you do is go to the site and click. You are only allowed one click per day so spread the word to others. Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 23 18:36:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11704 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20302 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:13:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20288 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26891>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:22:30 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Benjamin and Sasha Goldberg cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Sep23.172230cdt.26891@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:11:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2829 Sasha wrote: Ann has addressed much of this point, but I would like to stress that we (that is those of us in Canada & USA are NOT eating rain forest meat! North America is a large net exporter of meat. Now you do have point if you ask why we are overproducing what we dont have adequate markets for though...or if you ask why we have to produce feedlot beef, factory chicken or factory pork... Sorry- wrong & wrong again! Feeding spent brewers mash, barley rejected for brewing, wheat rejected for milling, or sorghum to animals makes MORE not less food available for human consumption. Precicely because ruminant animals can eat fibrous foods that we cannot process in our delicate gut. That sorghum or barley is often produced on land that could not grow kidney beans or good bread wheat for human consumption anyways. I really don't know what you mean about 16lb of feed/1lb of person. Cattle gain their first 500-700lb on a diet of mothers milk & grass. Their moms eat mainly grass. When the snow is too deep to paw through, the rancher throws out a few bales made of that same grass for them to chew on. We feed steers for the last 100-200 days of their lives on the kinds of grains mentioned above. They gain about 2 & half lb/day eating 5lb of grain. That 2/1 ratio is roughly the same as the conversion for chicken & pork. The difference is that cattle can eat sagebrush & twigs to put on the first 700lb (or more- if you have the grass) it just takes a little longer. None of the feedstuffs mentioned here are coming out of the mouths of hungry people. As far as I know, of the major countries exporting feedgrains USA, Canada, Australia, Europe have little or no hunger problems. Argentina & Brazil have greatly expanded feedgrain production recently in areas adjacent to export ports. Those areas were formerly devoted to large-scale low-quality beef production NOT rain forest or smallholder homesteads! This much I know pretty well. I'm less familiar with the areas of NE Brazil where there IS genuine hunger (and rain forest destruction). I think people are settling there who have been made redundant by mechanisation of the sugar industry in N Brazil. Thats similar to the mass migrations of US blacks from the south in the 1910's & 20's and poor whites from the great plains in the '30's that contributed greatly to urban social problems in this century. But I'm no expert... I agree with you there. But I think you are assuming a cause & effect relationship where none exists i.e. A are cutting down rain forest; B are unemployed & hungry; C eat meat; therefore A occurs because of B & C? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 23 18:36:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11709 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:36:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20185 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:12:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20168 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:12:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17721 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA07614; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:10:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2d-137.ix.netcom.com(209.110.255.137) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007142; Thu Sep 23 17:08:43 1999 Message-ID: <002801bf0610$6851d4e0$89ff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , Cc: "sanet" Subject: Re: raw/pasteurized cream Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:10:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2830 I can't answer your question completely, but if I recall correctly when raw milk/cream sours (not spoils) it is still usable where as pasteurized can't "sour" it spoils, Due I suppose to lack of "good" bacteria. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Greg & Lei Gunthorp To: graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz Cc: sanet Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 4:57 PM Subject: raw/pasteurized cream >Does anyone have any information on the shelf life of raw cream? How long >can it stay refrigerated before it has to be pasteurized? > >Thanks, >Greg Gunthorp > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 23 18:58:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12120 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04460 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:36:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04391 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26888>; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:45:28 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "E. Ann Clark" cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Sep23.174528cdt.26888@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:34:45 -0500 Subject: Re: on Sustainable Meat Production (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2831 E. Ann Clark said: I would only add that livestock as a diversification to a grain operation has traditionally been a reasonable risk management strategy for farmers as poulrty, beef & pork are on different business cycles from corn/soy & wheat- so thats quite rational. The time demands for managing traditionally sized livestock enterprises (100 sows not 10,000) were complementary enough not to cause a conflict with the grain operation. The problem is, we have- at the same time- urban consumers who expect their dirt-cheap food to come from "Old Mcdonald had a Farm" & well capitalised conglomerates controling genetics, inputs & ultimately prices who expect to have the same (low) level of regulation for 10,000 sow industrial production units as Old Mcdonald had for 10 sows. < Indeed, it I wont argue with the point, but I personally think that confinement systems & factory hens are the product of externality. That is, society (or future generations) & not the operator absorbs the costs of pollution and nuisance from the feedlots & stink factories. If the price of factory pork included the actuarial costs for liability for all future environmentally based lawsuits, they would not be competitive with free-range pork. Bang on Ann! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 23 20:56:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13395 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14936 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:29:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14882 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01481; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:58:59 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Fwd: GRASS-BASED DAIRYING SEMINAR Cc: klemme@aae.wisc.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2832 Howdy, all-- Thought this might interest some of you. Please note that it's NOT limited to folks in Wisconsin. An experiment in distance education. Also, if you take part, I'd like to hear your feedback on it. peace misha > >News and Features > >Agricultural and Consumer Press Service College of >Agricultural and Life >Sciences >440 Henry Mall University of Wisconsin-Madison >Madison WI 53706 (608) 262-1461 > > For Immediate Release > For More Information: > Dick Cates (608) 588-2836 > rlcates@facstaff.wisc.edu > >GRASS-BASED DAIRYING SEMINAR OFFERED AROUND THE STATE > >People interested in starting grass-based dairy farms won't have to travel >long distances to learn from current graziers and other grass-based dairy >specialists. A Distance Education project based at the University of >Wisconsin-Madison's College of Agricultural and Life Sciences will allow >students to "meet" with the experts at county UW-Extension offices and on >their home computers. The seminar will be taught at the Animal Sciences >building on the CALS campus, with audio and synchronized PowerPoint visuals >transmitted over the Internet to county offices and home PCs. > >Through presentations and discussions, the seminar will familiarize >students with the principles and practices of developing and managing a >grass-based dairy farm business. Instructors include grass-based dairy >farmers, UW-Extension specialists and county agents, and representatives of >ag lending and other ag agencies. > >The course will meet on Wednesdays for three terms, beginning Nov. 10 and >ending March 29, 2000. Term 1 will cover starting a grass-based dairy >business (including goal-setting, grazing principles, fencing, watering and >lane construction, farm selection and layout, and winter feeding and >housing); term 2, developing a business plan; and term 3, managing the >business. A final list of all term topics will be available later this >autumn. > >The seminar will be offered at eight walk-in sites in Wisconsin, where >county Extension dairy agents will act as coordinators and facilitators. >(SEE BOX FOR LOCATIONS AND CONTACTS) All students enrolled at a >site will share the $200 site fee. > >Eight sites will also be open to PC users anywhere in the United States or >Canada on a first-come, first-serve basis. For more information on the PC >sites, go to http://www.cals.wisc.edu/media/news/09_99/grassdairy.html > >The seminar is offered by the UW-Madison Farm and Industry Short Course, >the Wisconsin School for Beginning Dairy Farmers (Center for >Integrated Agricultural Systems, UW-Madison), and Cooperative >Extension, UW-Extension. > >The enrollment deadline is Oct. 15. For an enrollment application, please >contact Kathy Martin Taylor, program assistant at the Wisconsin School for >Beginning Dairy Farmers, Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems, >(608) 262-5200, kmtaylor@aae.wisc.edu >### >rjc grazing seminar 9/99 > > > > GRASS-BASED DAIRYING SEMINAR > >County Sites and Contacts > >LOCATION CONTACT PERSON PHONE > >Crawford Co UWEX office, Vance Haugen 608-326-0223 >Prairie Du Chien > >Dunn Co UWEX office, Jim Faust 715-232-1636 >Menomonie > >Jackson Co UWEX office, Arden Hardie 715-284-4257 >Black River Falls > >Lincoln or Marathon Co Tom Cadwallader 715-536-0304 >UWEX office, Merrill or or >Wausau (Location will be Paul Daigle, Marathon 715-261-6006 >decided after applications Co LCD >are received) > >North Central WI Tech Gene Siriann 715-654-6362 >College, Medford or > Andy Hagar - Taylor 715-748-332 > Co UWEX > >North East WI Tech Kevin Klingberg 920-498-5637 >College, Green Bay > >Sauk Co UWEX office, Paul Dietman 608-355-3257 >Baraboo > >Spooner Agri. Exp. Station Russell Kiecker 715-635-3506 >Spooner > > >******************************************************************** >Bob Cooney, press service editor >College of Agricultural and Life Sciences >University of Wisconsin-Madison >440 Henry Mall >Madison WI 53706 >phone (608) 262-2679 FAX (608) 265-3042 >rjcooney@facstaff.wisc.edu >O- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Sep 23 11:49:18 1999 -0400 Received: from net.bio.net (net.bio.net [198.94.52.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03785 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA19091 for symbios-list; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA19087; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909231543.IAA19087@net.bio.net> To: nobody@net.bio.net X-Really-To: symbios@net.bio.net Newsgroups: bionet.biology.symbiosis Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:00:09 -0700 (PDT) From: BIOSCI Administrator Subject: BIOSCI/bionet miniFAQ & Fundraiser Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2833 (LAST REVISION: 14-AUG-99) This BIOSCI "miniFAQ" is designed to answer the questions that come up the *most frequently*. The main BIOSCI FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) is accessible on the World Wide Web at URL http://www.bio.net/. If you can not find an answer to your question in this or other documentation, the BIOSCI technical support staff answers e-mail queries sent to biosci-help@net.bio.net We can only answer questions about the use of the newsgroups and mailing lists. We unfortunately do not have the staff to do Internet information searches or answer scientific questions. Please post those to the appropriate BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. Contents: -------- 0) BIOSCI NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT!! 1) Using the WWW to access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. 2) What to do about "spams," i.e., junk mail, ads, etc. 3) Examples of subscribing and unsubscribing to the mailing lists. 4) The BIOSCI user address and research interest directory. 0) BIOSCI NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT!! ------------------------------ BIOSCI's government funding has been expended, and we are now operating solely from advertising revenue that we have raised from our Web site at http://www.bio.net/. We need just a few minutes of your time to help us serve you. You can do two important things which will take very little time for you individually and will immensely help us continue to help you. First, please use our WWW system at http://www.bio.net/ to access the archives. You can post or reply to messages via your Web browser as described in item #1 below. Your usage helps attract sponsors. If you contact any of our sponsors, please be sure to thank them for supporting BIOSCI. It is critical for them to get this feedback if they are to continue their sponsorship for the long term. Second, if you work for a company or organization that provides products or services of interest to the biology community, please pass this message on to your marketing or marketing communications department or other appropriate group. Please ask them to help support BIOSCI by sponsoring our Web site and explain the uses and benefits of the system to the biology community. If they are interested, they can then contact us for further information at our tech support address, biosci-help@net.bio.net. 1) Using the WWW to access the BIOSCI/bionet newsgroups. -------------------------------------------------------- All BIOSCI/bionet full newsgroups are accessible through the World Wide Web (WWW) at URL http://www.bio.net. One can read and reply publicly or privately to both recent postings and archived messages through one's Web browser if it is configured properly to send e-mail. Each newsgroup is equipped with its own WAIS index. The main BIOSCI home page also has access to the BIO-JOURNALS Table of Contents database WAIS index and the BIOSCI user address database described in another item further below. 2) What to do about "spams," i.e., junk mail, ads, etc. ------------------------------------------------------- BIOSCI is a set of parallel USENET newsgroups (the "bionet" groups), mailing lists, and a hypermail archive at URL http://www.bio.net/. The same postings are distributed on all media (except for a small number of mailing-list-only groups at net.bio.net). Unfortunately it is becoming a despicable practice on the Internet (by a few people out to make a fast buck) to do automated mass postings to thousands of newsgroups and mailing lists. These attempts to grab free advertising are refered to as "spams" in the usual, somewhat boneheaded, net terminology. USENET is more susceptible to this practice, and many spams originate on the USENET groups and then are passed on to the mailing lists. However, spammers also get lists of mailing addresses and hit these too, so neither medium is immune. What should you do personally if you get junk mail? --------------------------------------------------- Just delete it and move on without reading it further. Filing a protest is becoming increasingly useless because spammers are often disguising the addresses where the messages are sent from. Unless you really understand Internet mail systems, your attempt at protest by sending replies to the message will often end up being sent to the address of an innocent person that the spammer is victimizing. What can BIOSCI/bionet do to protect its newsgroups? ---------------------------------------------------- The only solution currently available is to moderate the newsgroup. If this newsgroup is already moderated, then you are in good shape. Moderation protects the USENET distribution from about 95% of the spams that are being sent to date and protects the mailing lists completely. Moderation means, however, that someone has to take the time to review each message before it goes out. We have set up software here that simply allows the moderator to forward to an address at net.bio.net messages that (s)he wishes to have distributed. This takes no more time than that needed to read the message and pass it on, say about 1 min. per message. Most newsgroups currently have a discussion leader who is responsible for their newsgroup. The discussions leaders and their e-mail addresses are listed in the BIOSCI Information Sheet which is available on the Web at http://www.bio.net/. If a newsgroup is being hit with too many junk postings, please contact the discussion leader for that group and see if there is interest in moderating the group. Please do not assume that by simply posting a complaint to the newsgroup itself, anyone on the BIOSCI staff will act on your complaint. With close to 100 newsgroups to run, the BIOSCI staff has to rely on the discussion leaders of each newsgroup to report problems directly to us at biosci-help@net.bio.net. We will moderate any of our newsgroups if the discussion leader tells us that the readership of the group wishes to do so and if a moderator is willing to do the work. For most BIOSCI/bionet groups, this entails only a few minutes of work each day. Moderating a newsgroup will resolve probably 95% of the junk postings on the USENET distribution. Unfortunately there are easy ways for determined spammers to override the moderation mechanism on USENET, but we can protect our e-mail subscribers from unwanted postings if the newsgroup is moderated. You can also access our newsgroups over the WWW at URL http://www.bio.net. While this Web interface will not stop spammers from trying to post to the groups, this will give you yet another way, besides using USENET news, to keep the junk out of your personal mail files. For those of you with local USENET news systems, the Web interface will also give you faster access to new newsgroups and recent postings. 3) Examples of subscribing and unsubscribing to the mailing lists. ------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE NOTE: The BIOSCI management does NOT act on subscription/unsubscription requests that are posted improperly to the newsgroups and mailing lists. People who do this only bother everyone on the lists to no avail. Please be sure to follow the proper procedures below. Gory details are in the BIOSCI Information sheets on the Web at http://www.bio.net. Below we give an example utilizing the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS list at both of our two BIOSCI sites: Users in the Americas and Pacific Rim countries who use the BIOSCI ------------------------------------------------------------------ node at computer net.bio.net: ---------------------------- A) Determine the "listname" which is the <=8 character mail address ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for the group. These can be found in the BIOSCI Info. Sheet. For the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS group the mailing address is methods@net.bio.net. The listname is the portion of the address to the left of the @ sign, i.e., "methods". The listname is used with the "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" commands illustrated below. B) Mail all commands in the body of a mail message addressed to biosci-server@net.bio.net. Do NOT send commands to the newsgroup posting addresses! Leave the Subject: line blank, any text on it will be ignored. C) In the body of your message put one or more of the following commands with an "end" command on the last line, e.g., subscribe methods unsubscribe methods end Do NOT put your e-mail address or other text on these lines. The server only allows you to cancel your subscription if the address on your mail header matches the address on our mailing list. Please ask for help at biosci-help@net.bio.net if your address has changed, e.g., if you know you are on the list but the server tells you that you are not a member. Users in Europe, Africa, and Central Asia who use the BIOSCI node at -------------------------------------------------------------------- the UK-HGMP-Resource Centre (known as hgmp.mrc.ac.uk): ----------------------------------------------------- A) Determine the "listname" which is the <=8 character mail address ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ for the group. These can be found in the BIOSCI Info. Sheet. For the METHODS-AND-REAGENTS group the mailing address is methods@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk. The listname is the portion of the address to the left of the @ sign, i.e., "methods". The listname is used with the "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" commands illustrated below. B) Mail all commands in the body of a mail message addressed to majordomo@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk. Do NOT send commands to the newsgroup posting addresses! Leave the Subject: line blank, any text on it will be ignored. C) In the body of your message put one or more of the following commands with an "end" command on the last line, e.g., subscribe methods unsubscribe methods end Please ask for help at biosci@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk if your address has changed, e.g., if you know you are on the list but the server tells you that you are not a member. 4) The BIOSCI user address and research interest directory. ----------------------------------------------------------- Please take this opportunity to add your name, address, and research interest information to the BIOSCI User Address Database if you have not already done so. You can fill out the address form directly through our Web page at URL http://www.bio.net/adrform.html. The address database is reindexed nightly for WWW access (the URL is http://www.bio.net/). If you are not directly on the Internet but can reach it by e-mail, please use our waismail server to access the user directory. waismail use is described above. You can also request a user address form by e-mail from biosci-help@net.bio.net. Please check your database entry from time-to-time to see if your address information is still up-to-date. Because of our limited personnel resources, we ask that you resubmit a *complete* form to revise your entry; we only replace complete entries and do not have resources to edit old forms. From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 02:29:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17578 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:29:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04839 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:01:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04767 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23933 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:00:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d01-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.128] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA24185; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:59:51 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Dan Hook" , "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , Cc: "sanet" Subject: RE: raw/pasteurized cream Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:06:52 +1000 Message-ID: <000a01bf0652$fef335a0$8079a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <002801bf0610$6851d4e0$89ff6ed1@dan> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2834 Which raises the question - how is commercial 'sour cream' produced? Beth wrote: :I can't answer your question completely, but if I recall correctly when raw milk/cream sours (not spoils) it is still usable where as pasteurized can't "sour" it spoils, Due I suppose to lack of "good" bacteria. Beth after Greg wrote: >Does anyone have any information on the shelf life of raw cream? How long >can it stay refrigerated before it has to be pasteurized? > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 02:53:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17695 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA17224 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:24:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17185 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24176 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (dynamic32.pm02.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.96]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id XAA24234; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , Cc: "sanet" Subject: RE: raw/pasteurized cream Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:24:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199909232021.PAA22834@billman.kuntrynet.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2835 Shelf life of raw milk (or cream) depends on bacteria levels, which depends on the cleanliness of the milking operation, storage container. As a rule of thumb, it lasts until it doesn't taste good anymore. Maybe 3-7 days. Separate from the milk, which (I don't know why) doesn't hold up as well. Refrig. at 38 degree F or lower. You can let it sour naturally (never done it myself). If you plan to pasteurize it, do it on day one. Don't wait til it's about to go off. Pasteurizing at a low temperature will preserve the flavor better. (approx 150 deg. F for 30 min, or 165 deg F for 20 sec - actual numbers available from the govt in the "Pasteurized Milk Ordinance." Michael "I'm not a milkman, but I play one of TV" Straus ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Greg & Lei Gunthorp Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 1:24 PM To: graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz Cc: sanet Subject: raw/pasteurized cream Does anyone have any information on the shelf life of raw cream? How long can it stay refrigerated before it has to be pasteurized? Thanks, Greg Gunthorp To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 03:21:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17857 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA10620 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:02:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10615 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24655 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (dynamic48.pm06.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.112]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id XAA20218; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: "Argall Family" , "Dan Hook" , "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , Cc: "sanet" Subject: RE: raw/pasteurized cream Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:02:15 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000a01bf0652$fef335a0$8079a1ca@p2> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2836 Commercial sour cream is produced like yogurt - take milk, with a certain fat level, add cultures, gums, stabilizers, thickeners and preservatives. ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Argall Family Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 11:07 PM To: Dan Hook; Greg & Lei Gunthorp; graze-l@taranaki.ac.nz Cc: sanet Subject: RE: raw/pasteurized cream Which raises the question - how is commercial 'sour cream' produced? Beth wrote: :I can't answer your question completely, but if I recall correctly when raw milk/cream sours (not spoils) it is still usable where as pasteurized can't "sour" it spoils, Due I suppose to lack of "good" bacteria. Beth after Greg wrote: >Does anyone have any information on the shelf life of raw cream? How long >can it stay refrigerated before it has to be pasteurized? > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 08:25:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19939 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07367 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:57:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mur3.odyssey.on.ca (mur3.odyssey.on.ca [209.213.224.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07357 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mur (ts5-26.odyssey.on.ca [209.213.229.76]) by mur3.odyssey.on.ca (8.9.1/Odyssey) with SMTP id HAA05775 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003601bf0684$1653bea0$4ce5d5d1@odyssey.on.ca> Reply-To: "Paula Bannerman" From: "Paula Bannerman" To: "sanet-mg" References: <99Sep23.172230cdt.26891@mint.cwb.ca> Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:58:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2837 >Pat Elazar wrote: > Ann has addressed much of this point, but I would like to stress that we (that > is those of us in Canada & USA are NOT eating rain forest meat! North America is > a large net exporter of meat. Now you do have point if you ask why we are > overproducing what we dont have adequate markets for though...or if you ask why > we have to produce feedlot beef, factory chicken or factory pork... I'm wondering if anyone has any background information concerning the accussations that Mcdonalds (and other large fast food chains) are the ones who are buying up rain forest meat? Just curious, in relation to this discussion. I know the US banned the fast food chains from importing meat for their stores a while back....although I'm not sure about Canada. I believe other countries though are still allowing it to be imported. Anyone have any info? Paula Bannerman - pbannerman@odyssey.on.ca http://www.odyssey.on.ca/~pbannerman "We Attract who we are" Robertson Davies To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 10:39:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22294 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23848 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:11:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f213.hotmail.com [207.82.251.104]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23754 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31477 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1999 14:09:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990924140924.31476.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:09:24 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.50] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: raw/pasteurized cream Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:09:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2838 Check withe Irma Rombauer in the old Joy of Cooking cookbook; the section "know your ingredients" has an amazing amount of information about commercial production, home production and spoilage cautions. >From: "Argall Family" >To: "Dan Hook" , "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" >, >CC: "sanet" >Subject: RE: raw/pasteurized cream >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:06:52 +1000 > >Which raises the question - how is commercial 'sour cream' produced? > >Beth wrote: > >:I can't answer your question completely, but if I recall correctly when >raw >milk/cream sours (not spoils) it is still usable where as pasteurized can't >"sour" it spoils, Due I suppose to lack of "good" bacteria. Beth > >after Greg wrote: > > >Does anyone have any information on the shelf life of raw cream? How >long > >can it stay refrigerated before it has to be pasteurized? > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 10:41:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22566 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25260 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:14:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25192 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-15-4.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.244]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA14929; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:08:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199909241408.JAA14929@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Paula Bannerman" , "sanet-mg" Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:10:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2839 Actually, I'm not sure where you find the data, but while I was serving on the USDA small farm commission we received testimony that the US is the largest IMPORTER of beef in the world. I don't know how much of it comes from South America but I'm sure some does. Also, foreign meat can be imported into the US and still be sold with a USDA inspection seal. I've even seen foreign boxed beef at our "local country meat shop". Its sad what we have reduced agriculture to in this country. On a more positive note, Niman Ranch Pork Company's pork has replaced Smithfields pork in a large health food chain on the east coast. Niman Ranch gets all of its pork from producers in the midwest who raise humanely on pasture or deep bedding and never use antibiotics. (Smithfield is the largest confinement operation in the country. 650,000 sows if their acquisition of Murphys Family Farm goes through.) Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp > >Pat Elazar wrote: > > Ann has addressed much of this point, but I would like to stress that we > (that > > is those of us in Canada & USA are NOT eating rain forest meat! North > America is > > a large net exporter of meat. Now you do have point if you ask why we are > > overproducing what we dont have adequate markets for though...or if you > ask why > > we have to produce feedlot beef, factory chicken or factory pork... /san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 10:48:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22676 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03407 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:25:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03400 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:25:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20738 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37EB9752.D2C69C12@uoguelph.ca> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:22:58 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: Re: Meat imports References: <199909241408.JAA14929@billman.kuntrynet.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------818A811CA80685D933D57338" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2840 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------818A811CA80685D933D57338 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg: I recall a conference presentation I heard once while speaking in Alberta. The ag economist at the lecturn stated that beef was both the fastest growing import AND the fastest growing export in Canada. How can this be? Because the beef exported was "raw material" beef, as in calves, while the beef imported was "value-added, finished product" beef in the form of meat. Need to be aware of the subtleties of the stats. Ann --------------818A811CA80685D933D57338 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------818A811CA80685D933D57338-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 12:15:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24573 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08073 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:32:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sp2n17.missouri.edu (sp2n17-t.missouri.edu [128.206.2.27]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07995 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from missouri.edu ([128.206.61.172]) by sp2n17.missouri.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA76278 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:31:06 -0500 Message-ID: <37EB98C4.97A2214F@missouri.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:29:08 -0500 From: Mary Hendrickson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" References: <99Sep23.172230cdt.26891@mint.cwb.ca> <003601bf0684$1653bea0$4ce5d5d1@odyssey.on.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2841 Paula Bannerman wrote > I'm wondering if anyone has any background information concerning the > accussations that Mcdonalds (and other large fast food chains) are the ones > who are buying up rain forest meat? While North America might be a large net exporter of meat, this is not true for US beef. In fact, the US imports about 18% more beef than it exports. Much of this does come from South America, although I'm not claiming this is all beef produced in former rainforests. McDonalds does not use imported beef according to its claims -- claims supported by many cattle ranchers. The issue gets pretty sticky however, because we have no real good stats about where our meat comes from -- hence the push for country of origin labeling at the national level. For instance, imported meat tends to be much leaner -- and some say tougher -- than US beef. Since hamburger (which accounts for about 45 percent of the beef eaten in the US!) can have a high fat content, lean imported beef is mixed with fat trimmings from US beef to make hamburger. Bill Heffernan likes to say that since the fat drips away while those hamburgers are out on the grill, the US part of the meat goes up in smoke! So again, where does our beef come from? Mary -- Mary Hendrickson, Ph.D. Network Coordinator Food Circles Networking Project University of Missouri Outreach and Extension Department of Rural Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 Tele: 573-882-7463 Fax: 573-882-1473 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 12:16:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24580 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:16:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12105 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:38:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12095 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA22336 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:36:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-37.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.37) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021816; Fri Sep 24 10:34:21 1999 Message-ID: <003501bf06a2$7f8ed940$25fd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: Re: raw/pasteurized cream Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:35:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2842 Hi list I forgot I had this web page it might answer some of your questions: http://www.realmilk.com -----Original Message----- From: J. S. To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: RE: raw/pasteurized cream >Check withe Irma Rombauer in the old Joy of Cooking cookbook; the section >"know your ingredients" has an amazing amount of information about >commercial production, home production and spoilage cautions. > > >>From: "Argall Family" >>To: "Dan Hook" , "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" >>, >>CC: "sanet" >>Subject: RE: raw/pasteurized cream >>Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:06:52 +1000 >> >>Which raises the question - how is commercial 'sour cream' produced? >> >>Beth wrote: >> >>:I can't answer your question completely, but if I recall correctly when >>raw >>milk/cream sours (not spoils) it is still usable where as pasteurized can't >>"sour" it spoils, Due I suppose to lack of "good" bacteria. Beth >> >>after Greg wrote: >> >> >Does anyone have any information on the shelf life of raw cream? How >>long >> >can it stay refrigerated before it has to be pasteurized? >> > >> >> >>To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >>"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >>To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >>"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". >> >>All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >>http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 12:24:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24754 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15234 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:46:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15214 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:46:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:45:05 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DE36@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'E. Ann Clark'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: on Sustainable Meat Production (long) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:45:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2843 Ann; Well said! John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: E. Ann Clark [mailto:eaclark@uoguelph.ca] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 12:38 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: on Sustainable Meat Production (long) << File: Card for E. Ann Clark >> Pat: you are right. In a nutshell, "Them's that eats is them's that pays". Global starvation has little if anything to do with confinement feeding systems in the US. This is BY NO MEANS a justification for confinement feeding systems, but a simple statement of fact. Starving people and confinement feeding are two separate, but parallel issues - each involving "grain" or food nutrients, but for different reasons. The central problem of the US (and perhaps other grain-exporting countries as well) has always been overproduction. We produce more than we can sell, so we search creatively for ways of absorbing the excess (e.g. anyone remember PL480?) so we can produce yet more. Sound a little circular? There is a logic to it, but you have to be imaginative to follow it. Why do farmers continually strive for higher yields, more milk/cow, faster rate of gain in steers, hogs, etc? Because we, in university and government ag research, give them the tools and varieties/hybrids to do it, and industry feeds them all the promos, peer-incentives, and paint to make it seem attractive. Why do we strive so hard to produce more, when all it does it drive down the price, tighten the margin on what we do produce (the difference between cost of and value of production), and oblige us to get bigger, and buy more inputs, to produce more, just to stay in business? They call it a treadmill, and so it is. If your goal (as a research community) was to support and sustain the farming community and natural environment, while ensuring abundant and healthy food for society - which is what all the platitudes say - this would be nonsensical. Continued overproduction, particularly using techniques that are increasingly harmful to both human (farmer and consumer) health and the environment, is fundamentally incompatible with the goal of *serving* the farming community, protecting natural resources, and producing safe food for society. Indeed, it is the antithesis of this goal. Clearly, and I would welcome ideas to the contrary, the goal is NOT to sustain the farming ommunity...etc, but something else. The beneficiary of our hard work - and our real client(s) - may become clearer if we consider who it is that *has* benefited from sustained overproduction, narrow production margins, and a continually declining farm population. a. Some say society benefits, because food is cheaper. Hard argument to make, when such a small fraction of the dollar value spent by consumers for "food" actually gets to the farmer. Most - and it is over 90% for many prepared foods, including a loaf of bread - goes to marketers, processors, and other post-farmgate segments in the food chain. So, the price that farmers receive for their products has remarkably little bearing on the value of food to consumers. Cheap food may have been a real goal decades ago, but today, it is a specious if compelling argument. Everybody likes a bargain. b. OK, if not society, then who? Farmers? Someone once said that ag researchers must be the only class of people in the world who rate their success on how many of their own clients they can drive out of business. Perhaps, maybe 40 years ago, farmers were delighted to leave their land and get to the city, and it may well have been a blessing to give them the tools and reasons to leave farming. But that "joy of release" sure doesn't pertain today, when many farm families are hanging desperately onto their land and their home, working part time and doing without, just to make it through another year. Do the figures on standard of living, rate of suicide and abuse, etc. bear out the premise that farmers have benefited from higher yields and high-tech agriculture? I think not. c. OK, so if it is not consumer and farmers, who is left? The environment? Nuf said. d. That leaves.....what other segment of ag and food? Those who supply the inputs, upon which high yields are based, and who purchase, market, trade, process, and sell the products. This brief amateur analysis (with apologies to those of you who do this for a living), suggests that all available evidence is inconsistent with the premise that the high yield agriculture paradigm which we in the publicly funded research community have nurtured with such care is serving society, farmers, or the environment - our ostensible "clients". The inference is inescapable - we are serving another sector entirely, even to the point of disenfranchising our own mandated clients. Now, against this background, consider the evolution of confinement-feeding systems. Feeding grain to livestock (and esp. to classes of livestock that can do very nicely, thank you very much, without grain entirely) has always been a way of buffering against either the weather or the market. Rain-damaged grain could still be fed to stock - not a complete loss. If the market favors fat cattle, then keep the grain and feed them out. Fair enough. But now, confinement feeding has become the tail that is wagging the dog. Some 70-90% of all grain produced in North America is grown specifically for livestock feeding. Imagine it! And why? because livestock are quite inefficient at converting grain, and hence, consume a lot of cheap grain to produce products that we value - meat, milk, etc. What better way to justify and absorb ever higher grain yields, while at the same time, producing a "value-added" product? An acre of "milk" is worth a great deal more than as acre of "corn" - particularly to those processing the milk. Indeed, it could be argued that confinement feeding systems were, at least at one time, a logical solution to the problem of overproduction. The only problem is that now our capacity to absorb livestock products is saturated, and grain overproduction has even overshot this solution, yet we continue to produce still more that we still can't sell. Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that there are not starving people who would benefit from grain - ideally, their own grain, produced by their own hands on their own farms. But they are not going to benefit from "our" grain, even if we stopped feeding it to livestock (which we *should* do, but for other reasons)- because they don't have the money to buy it. The same is true of genetic engineering. People are hungry for reasons that have remarkably little to do with corn genetics, and everything to do with entitlement and accessibility. It is important to look closely at causality in these kinds of disputes, to avoid the pitfalls of false assumptions - intentional (a la Avery) or otherwise. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 12:53:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25283 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07414 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:23:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07408 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26892>; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:32:46 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" cc: "sanet-mg" Message-Id: <99Sep24.113246cdt.26892@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:22:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2844 Gregg Wrote: ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23362 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:32:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23300 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greg (tnt-9-47.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.143]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA29532; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:26:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199909241826.NAA29532@billman.kuntrynet.com> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Pat Elazar" Cc: "sanet-mg" Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:28:14 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2845 I wasn't talking about Candian Beef. I was talking about foreign beef that the packaging was in Spanish. Product of Uraguay, Brazil and the likes. That is what the boxes had on them at the small, local "country" meat market! It gives a whole new meaning to country meat market. Its country all right. Just don't know which country! Best wishes, Greg ---------- > From: Pat Elazar > To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp > Cc: sanet-mg > Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a liar?" > Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 11:22 AM > > I don't want to kick a nationalist hornets nest, but after NAFTA, its pretty > hard to call Canadian or Mexican products "foreign" anymore... We get your ice > cream & yoghurts & you guys get our ham. If it makes you feel better, the > companies bringing that stuff in are all American anyways like Iowa Beef > Packers, Cargil etc. > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Fri Sep 24 01:58:33 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17300 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA18186 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:29:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18088 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA27157; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12188; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:24:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.panups X-Conference: panna.panups From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Colombian Drug Wars To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 107 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2846 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Farmers are Victims in Colombian Drug Wars September 23, 1999 Under the premise of eradicating drug crops, the Colombian government has been spraying traditional farming communities indiscriminately with herbicides containing glyphosate. In June of this year, the Colombian government began spraying homes and farms of the Yanacona indigenous community in the Macizo Colombiano region, Cauca province. Herbicides were sprayed over houses, community centers, schools, water sources, pastures and workers in the fields. Intended to kill small crops of opium poppy, the raw material used to make heroin, the spraying destroyed crops and pasture lands the Yanacona depend on for food and income. Fish and chickens died, other farm animals became ill, and both adults and children suffered symptoms of pesticide poisoning. Faced with illnesses and loss of crops, the Yanacona indigenous community sent a delegation to meet with the governor of the province, demanding a stop to the spraying. The governor promised that a fact- finding commission including representatives of several governmental and nongovernmental agencies would visit the community to collect testimony on the spraying. The actual commission consisted, however, of just two representatives of the provincial government. Some 1500 members of the Yanacona community assembled to meet with the fact-finding commission. People presented testimony of their experience of being "sprayed like flies" and becoming ill. Mothers reported on illnesses among children, including respiratory distress, rashes, vomiting, diarrhea, fever, migraines and conjunctivitis. One pregnant mother with five children testified that all her children were sick and her livelihood had been destroyed. Others reported that their pastures had been ruined and their cattle were ill. The spraying destroyed crops the Yanacona grow to feed their families and has affected their ability to sell their farm products. For example, the sale price of milk and cheese has fallen by 50% or more, due to customers' fears that the cows have drunk water contaminated with pesticides. Community members maintain that the majority of the Yanacona farms that have been sprayed do not grow poppies. In another area of Colombia, spraying with glyphosate has undone the successes of small farmers who were working to establish ecologically and economically sound alternatives to drug crops. Farmers in Caqueta province have designed intercropped gardens of native species, pasture areas with tree cover, and small-scale fish farming. In August, the government began spraying herbicides that have killed seedlings in their nurseries and crops in their fields, contaminated water sources and made adults and children sick. The farmers are seeking help from the International Red Cross to set up a forum in which to present testimony on what they have experienced. Colombia produces three illicit drug crops: marijuana, coca and opium poppy. Commercial production of coca for processing into cocaine began in the mid-1970s and has increased dramatically; Colombia is now the world's largest producer of cocaine. Large-scale production of opium poppy did not begin until 1990, but it too has grown rapidly. Colombia is now the primary supplier of heroin to the eastern United States. Between 1990 and 1998, the U.S. provided some US$625 million to the Colombian National Police and the Colombian military for aircraft, weapons, ammunition and other support for the war on drugs. Beginning in 1996, the U.S. State Department identified herbicide spraying to eradicate opium poppy crops as a priority; the cost of this undertaking for fiscal year 1999 may be as high as US$68 million. Yet the expensive and inhumane "war on drugs" has not brought the drug trade under control. According to conservative estimates, the area in Colombia planted with illegal crops increased by almost 400% between 1978 and 1998. Between 1996 and 1998, despite consistent spraying, coca production in Colombia increased by 50% and poppy production remained approximately constant. RAPALMIRA (PAN-Colombia) is calling for the immediate suspension and long-term prohibition of aerial spraying to eradicate drug crops, and for the implementation of a genuine program of alternative, sustainable development. Source: This material is excerpted from "Casualties of the 'War on Drugs': Traditional Farms Destroyed with Herbicides," by Elsa Nivia and Rachel Massey, Global Pesticide Campaigner, August 1999. For the complete article, contact PANNA at panna@panna.org. Contact: PANNA =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 18:11:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01213 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14159 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:35:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f178.hotmail.com [207.82.251.64]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA14091 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55910 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1999 21:33:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990924213314.55909.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.54.103 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:33:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.54.103] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Vt Dairy Farm Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:33:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2847 Hi, Does anyone remember the info about a dairy farm for sale in Vermont that was posted here a short while ago? I seem to have deleted the message and don't remeber who sent it. Thanks for your help, jane ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Sep 24 20:39:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03354 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27323 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:16:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gwsmtp.ohsu.edu (gwsmtp.ohsu.edu [137.53.4.219]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA27285 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gwiadom1-Message_Server by gwsmtp.ohsu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:15:15 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:14:59 -0700 From: "Kendra Wise" To: Subject: Introduction and learning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA27304 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2848 Dear list, I recently subscribed to the list and have been delighted with the quality of discussion (philosophical as well and statistical and practical ) that I have seen so far. Although I do not currently farm, I have goaled myself to be on a small (25-75 acres) farm by the year 2009. While I wait, my idea is to learn as much as possible about sustainable/organic agriculture as I possibly can. I envision a diversified small farm specializing in rare and endangered varieties of livestock and heirloom vegetable crops, which will also include pastures, orchards and grain fields. I'd like to ask those of you who actively farm sustainably what you consider your most valuable skills and abilities. I'm interested in both academic skills and learning as well as practical abilities. I suppose that this may be considered a request for a 10-year course of study on theories and practices of sustainable agriculture. I look forward to learning much more from this list. Thanks, and have a great weekend! Kendra Wise wiseke@ohsu.edu Portland, OR To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 25 03:43:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07164 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 03:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA00310 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 03:30:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov (merlin.rtpnc.epa.gov [134.67.208.148]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00294 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 03:30:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26439) with ESMTP id <0FIL00BT8SPTK7@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 03:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.1-12 #26438) with SMTP id <0FIK00O2WUIAKQ@epamail.epa.gov> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 hotfix 1 (767.1 12-15-1998)) id 852567F6.006611FB ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:34:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:32:14 -0400 Subject: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Message-id: <852567F6.00659AEC.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-disposition: inline X-Lotus-FromDomain: EPA Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2849 Short-Term Storage of Flood Water on Farmland A colleague is developing and examining the idea that the benefits of short-term storage and management of flood water on farmland may be much greater than the associated costs. This storage would supplement the storage that is already available in COE and Small Watershed structures. If large amounts of flood water could be stored on farmland, the effective operation of all these activities should be closely coordinated. I include a summary of the idea and a request. Summary Short-term storage of flood waters by the temporary plugging of ditches and drainage systems and holding water on farmland with berms around the edge of fields and other actions could reduce the social and environmental cost associated with downstream flood impacts. In return, farmers would be paid an amount that would cover the opportunity cost of the land for the period of runoff storage including crop loss and any other related costs. Additionally, there could be cost sharing of installing berms and risers to store water on the surface, gates to retain water in drainage ditches, and modifications to drainage systems to temporarily store water in drainage pipes and the soil. Request First, I solicit and welcome comments on (1) the feasibility of storing and managing runoff on farmland and (2) any suggestions and ideas on ways that can be used to provide short-term storage of water on farmland. Second, if you have installed berms and risers, gates in drainage ditches, controlled drainage and subirrigation systems, or other systems that would provide short-term storage of water on farmland, please share information on the costs associated with these systems in as much detail as is available. Thank you very much for the information and ideas you share. Publications and other materials welcomed. William Crosswhite USEPA Mail code 2121 401 M Street SW Washington, DC 20460 202-260-6804 Fax 202-260-2300 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 25 08:28:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09616 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24124 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:59:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24108 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA01599; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:57:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2b-37.ix.netcom.com(209.110.253.37) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001593; Sat Sep 25 06:57:08 1999 Message-ID: <009b01bf074d$56e83d00$25fd6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Kendra Wise" , Subject: Re: Introduction and learning Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:58:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2850 Hi Kendara, My suggestions is go out and DO some farming. Start with a little garden in your back yard. See if you can get a working share CSA I am sure they'd be glad to have you (I know we would). Or work or volunteer at another kind of farm. While I think you should stick to your goal I think you should get as much practical experience as you can in the next 10 years. We are in our second year of a CSA. We went into it with a good supply of gardening knowledge which was invaluable. But actually growing and harvesting for customers is alot of work physically (obvious) and emotionally, we all wanted desperately to do a really good job. Read lots of gardening etc. books but get out and do some farm work. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Kendra Wise To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:38 PM Subject: Introduction and learning >Dear list, > >I recently subscribed to the list and have been delighted with the quality of discussion (philosophical as well and statistical and practical ) that I have seen so far. Although I do not currently farm, I have goaled myself to be on a small (25-75 acres) farm by the year 2009. > >While I wait, my idea is to learn as much as possible about sustainable/organic agriculture as I possibly can. I envision a diversified small farm specializing in rare and endangered varieties of livestock and heirloom vegetable crops, which will also include pastures, orchards and grain fields. > >I'd like to ask those of you who actively farm sustainably what you consider your most valuable skills and abilities. I'm interested in both academic skills and learning as well as practical abilities. I suppose that this may be considered a request for a 10-year course of study on theories and practices of sustainable agriculture. > >I look forward to learning much more from this list. Thanks, and have a great weekend! > >Kendra Wise >wiseke@ohsu.edu >Portland, OR > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 25 09:49:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09984 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16225 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:24:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16216 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP244.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.6]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA18250; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37ECCDBD.DEE513F5@sprintmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:27:25 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" , "Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov" Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland References: <852567F6.00659AEC.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2851 William, Bravo! Someone is finally looking at one of the impacts of agriculture on flooding! I can offer no ideas on dams and floodgates, but I can offer an idea to make this sort of approach less necessary. It looks like we are again looking at a problem (flooding) and dealing with the symptoms rather than addressing the root cause. More flooding is evident as we add more and more impervious structures through development. Another factor is the degradation of our soil quality through use of chemicals and over tillage. These farming practices reduce the ability of soils to absorb water and recharge ground water reserves. Thus, higher runoff. It seems to me that improving the quality of soils in our agricultural areas would lessen flooding at a lower cost, provide a long term solution, obviate maintenance and regulation, while improving our ability to produce quality food. I realize that government agencies think only in terms of centralized, regulated, budgeted programs, but a program that addresses the root causes of a problem would be far more successful, benefit more sectors and require less long term funding due to continued regulation. It would empower farmers to increase the quality and productivity of their land and increase their income without making them dependent on another federal program for income. I also realize that public programs require substantiated results for money spent- easier to cite number of dams and water holding potential statistics than to talk about increase of soil quality. But think of the nightmare of regulating all those floodgates across the country. Do we need a federal agency larger than TVA? Again, it looks like the federal government is looking to farmers to solve the problems created by an unsustainable society. It has already been proposed that farmland receive sewage sludge from urban areas. Now we need to flood our fields to keep from flooding urban areas that create the most runoff from buildings and roads? The only way to regulate a centralized program would be to shut down the independent farm operators, and the growing of food and regulation of water on the fields placed under a central governmental agency. Do we have any examples of how well this has worked in other countries? Alex Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov wrote: > Short-Term Storage of Flood Water on Farmland > > A colleague is developing and examining the idea that the benefits of short-term > storage and management of flood water on farmland may be much greater than the > associated costs. This storage would supplement the storage that is already > available in COE and Small Watershed structures. If large amounts of flood > water could be stored on farmland, the effective operation of all these > activities should be closely coordinated. I include a summary of the idea and a > request. > > Summary > > Short-term storage of flood waters by the temporary plugging of ditches and > drainage systems and holding water on farmland with berms around the edge of > fields and other actions could reduce the social and environmental cost > associated with downstream flood impacts. In return, farmers would be paid an > amount that would cover the opportunity cost of the land for the period of > runoff storage including crop loss and any other related costs. Additionally, > there could be cost sharing of installing berms and risers to store water on the > surface, gates to retain water in drainage ditches, and modifications to > drainage systems to temporarily store water in drainage pipes and the soil. > > Request > > First, I solicit and welcome comments on (1) the feasibility of storing and > managing runoff on farmland and (2) any suggestions and ideas on ways that can > be used to provide short-term storage of water on farmland. > > Second, if you have installed berms and risers, gates in drainage ditches, > controlled drainage and subirrigation systems, or other systems that would > provide short-term storage of water on farmland, please share information on the > costs associated with these systems in as much detail as is available. > > Thank you very much for the information and ideas you share. Publications and > other materials welcomed. > > William Crosswhite > USEPA Mail code 2121 > 401 M Street SW > Washington, DC 20460 > > 202-260-6804 > Fax 202-260-2300 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 25 11:31:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10478 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:31:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06098 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:01:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from shelly.surfsouth.com (IDENT:root@shelly.surfsouth.com [205.139.60.100]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06085 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from surfsouth.com (02-ocil-035.dial.optilinkcomm.net [216.128.152.179]) by shelly.surfsouth.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00819; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:00:31 -0400 Message-ID: <37ECE371.D12B83EC@surfsouth.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:00:02 -0400 From: David Drexler Reply-To: david@paulowniatrees.com Organization: PaulowniaTrees.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com CC: Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov, "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" , "Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov" Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland References: <852567F6.00659AEC.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> <37ECCDBD.DEE513F5@sprintmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2852 Flooding solution >From small farm ponds to large corp of engineers dam, they do little to prevent flooding. If they are full of water as they usually are then a large inflow of water just overflows and is continued on downstream. There are thousand of acres of timber land that is in bottom land and growing timber successfully. Now place a dam across the stream but only allow a small discharge for the exit. The dam is not "plugged" and the reservoir is not allow to fill normally. With large rainfall the reservoir fills but is released through the small opening over a 6 to 10 day period. This flooding of the timber is usually not harmful to most trees if it doesn't last too long. Instead of the Govt. paying large sum to build reservoirs that dont do much for flood control, disperse this money to small land owner to construct and maintain these dry reservoirs. Actually a double use of the land and everyone benefits. Alex McGregor wrote: > William, > > Bravo! Someone is finally looking at one of the impacts of agriculture on flooding! > I can offer no ideas on dams and floodgates, but I can offer an idea to make this > sort of approach less necessary. > > It looks like we are again looking at a problem (flooding) and dealing with the > symptoms rather than addressing the root cause. More flooding is evident as we add > more and more impervious structures through development. Another factor is the > degradation of our soil quality through use of chemicals and over tillage. These > farming practices reduce the ability of soils to absorb water and recharge ground > water reserves. Thus, higher runoff. > > It seems to me that improving the quality of soils in our agricultural areas would > lessen flooding at a lower cost, provide a long term solution, obviate maintenance > and regulation, while improving our ability to produce quality food. > > I realize that government agencies think only in terms of centralized, regulated, > budgeted programs, but a program that addresses the root causes of a problem would > be far more successful, benefit more sectors and require less long term funding due > to continued regulation. It would empower farmers to increase the quality and > productivity of their land and increase their income without making them dependent > on another federal program for income. > > I also realize that public programs require substantiated results for money spent- > easier to cite number of dams and water holding potential statistics than to talk > about increase of soil quality. But think of the nightmare of regulating all those > floodgates across the country. Do we need a federal agency larger than TVA? > > Again, it looks like the federal government is looking to farmers to solve the > problems created by an unsustainable society. It has already been proposed that > farmland receive sewage sludge from urban areas. Now we need to flood our fields to > keep from flooding urban areas that create the most runoff from buildings and roads? > > The only way to regulate a centralized program would be to shut down the independent > farm operators, and the growing of food and regulation of water on the fields placed > under a central governmental agency. Do we have any examples of how well this has > worked in other countries? > > Alex > > Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov wrote: > > > Short-Term Storage of Flood Water on Farmland > > > > A colleague is developing and examining the idea that the benefits of short-term > > storage and management of flood water on farmland may be much greater than the > > associated costs. This storage would supplement the storage that is already > > available in COE and Small Watershed structures. If large amounts of flood > > water could be stored on farmland, the effective operation of all these > > activities should be closely coordinated. I include a summary of the idea and a > > request. > > > > Summary > > > > Short-term storage of flood waters by the temporary plugging of ditches and > > drainage systems and holding water on farmland with berms around the edge of > > fields and other actions could reduce the social and environmental cost > > associated with downstream flood impacts. In return, farmers would be paid an > > amount that would cover the opportunity cost of the land for the period of > > runoff storage including crop loss and any other related costs. Additionally, > > there could be cost sharing of installing berms and risers to store water on the > > surface, gates to retain water in drainage ditches, and modifications to > > drainage systems to temporarily store water in drainage pipes and the soil. > > > > Request > > > > First, I solicit and welcome comments on (1) the feasibility of storing and > > managing runoff on farmland and (2) any suggestions and ideas on ways that can > > be used to provide short-term storage of water on farmland. > > > > Second, if you have installed berms and risers, gates in drainage ditches, > > controlled drainage and subirrigation systems, or other systems that would > > provide short-term storage of water on farmland, please share information on the > > costs associated with these systems in as much detail as is available. > > > > Thank you very much for the information and ideas you share. Publications and > > other materials welcomed. > > > > William Crosswhite > > USEPA Mail code 2121 > > 401 M Street SW > > Washington, DC 20460 > > > > 202-260-6804 > > Fax 202-260-2300 > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 25 12:24:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00984 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:24:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13984 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:07:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13887 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp80.green.eri.net [207.90.124.144]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA66949; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c501bf0772$465e13e0$907c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "J. S." , Subject: Re: Vt Dairy Farm Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:23:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2853 Hi, The e-mail is petersfarm@aol.com Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 25 14:22:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02016 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22837 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22829 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01819 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:01:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA18380 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:01:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:01:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland In-Reply-To: <852567F6.00659AEC.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2854 On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov wrote: > Short-Term Storage of Flood Water on Farmland > > A colleague is developing and examining the idea that the benefits of short-term > storage and management of flood water on farmland may be much greater than the > associated costs. This storage would supplement the storage that is already > available in COE and Small Watershed structures. If large amounts of flood > water could be stored on farmland, the effective operation of all these > activities should be closely coordinated. I include a summary of the idea and a > request. > > Summary > > Short-term storage of flood waters by the temporary plugging of ditches and > drainage systems and holding water on farmland with berms around the edge of > fields and other actions could reduce the social and environmental cost > associated with downstream flood impacts. In return, farmers would be paid an > amount that would cover the opportunity cost of the land for the period of > runoff storage including crop loss and any other related costs. Additionally, > there could be cost sharing of installing berms and risers to store water on the > surface, gates to retain water in drainage ditches, and modifications to > drainage systems to temporarily store water in drainage pipes and the soil. >From the beginning of the movement water impoundment schemes have been basic to Permaculture. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 25 17:35:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03761 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26654 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:23:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26596 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-38.csj.net [12.29.22.38]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA20744 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:23:26 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "sanet-mg@ces. ncsu. edu (E-mail)" Subject: fun with numbers: the carcass incineration equations Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:23:37 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf079c$3c95b500$0ac0fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2855 These numbers are from a local NC newspaper article, Jacksonville, NC. Each incinerator can do 4000-6000 pounds of carcass per hour, providing there is ample dry wood (big problem but irrelevant to the math unless one wants to consider that throughput is zero without the wood.) A hog (Illinois hog) weighs 250 pounds. There are currently only two incinerators and a severe shortage of wood. According to the paper there are 2.9 million poultry and 100,000 hogs. According to the list member from NC it is 4 million poultry and 500,000 hogs (is that correct? I deleted the post.) How many days will it take to burn all the carcasses? Donna Fezler GCR Jacksonville, IL http://www.rhealiving.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Sep 25 20:18:45 1999 -0400 Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04913 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 1Cust114.tnt1.durham.nc.da.uu.net ([63.23.236.114]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990926001812.QXFL20427@1Cust114.tnt1.durham.nc.da.uu.net> for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:18:12 +0000 From: lflondon@worldnet.att.net (Lawrence F. London, Jr.) To: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: Re: fig bushes? (was nandina and figs) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:20:22 GMT Organization: InterGarden Message-ID: <37ed66b1.169026938@mailhost.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2856 On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:35:53 -0400, in triangle.gardens "Mitch C. Amiano" wrote: >Rooting of figs is something generally difficult to prevent, even >when you are really neglectful. > >Some tips: You can root figs in water. Very small (less than 6") >cuttings seem to do poorly by comparison with medium sized cuttings >of 6 to 8". Very old wood and very young wood tends to root more slowly. >Hormones can help, but aren't absolutely necessary. Cuttings seem to >root better within an inch or so of a bud or branch, and worse for wood >farther from a bud node or branch especially when the cutting still >has the branch on it. > >I would think that any cuttings you take now will have a tough time >making it through the winter. > >malkin_weber@my-deja.com wrote: >> >> Can you say more about how to root fig cuttings? Do I need to use >> rooting hormone or will they root in water? Plant outdoors in November >> or keep indoors till spring? >> >> A friend has a fig bush that sends up sprouts around the base, and I've >> tried digging some up and planting them, but they didn't survive >> (possiby because I was not as careful as I should have been). Is there a >> trick to this? >> >> thanks >> melissa >> >> In article <37c4a441.0@newport>, >> "ukusa" wrote: >> > By the >> way, in November is when you root fig cuttings. >> >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >> Share what you know. Learn what you don't. From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Sep 25 20:20:10 1999 -0400 Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04922 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 1Cust114.tnt1.durham.nc.da.uu.net ([63.23.236.114]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990926001931.QXTL20427@1Cust114.tnt1.durham.nc.da.uu.net> for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:19:31 +0000 From: lflondon@worldnet.att.net (Lawrence F. London, Jr.) To: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: Re: fig bushes? (was nandina and figs) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:21:44 GMT Organization: InterGarden Message-ID: <37ed670c.169117917@mailhost.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2857 On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:40:16 GMT, in triangle.gardens tomato lord wrote: >I trim my fig tree after it goes dormant...either late winter or very >early spring....you do not have to trim it ..it will just become to >large to get to the fruit. > >The easiest way to get another fig tree is this. > >leave 1 of the branches longer do not cut it...in the spring before the >growth starts...bend the branch over...scrape the bark(not completely >off, but down to the wood)...then cover the scrape upto about 5 inches >on either side....now the branch goes down into dirt and then sticks up >out of the ground.... > >That fall you can now cut that branch off from the main tree and it >will have its own root system for you to plant it somewhere else!! > >good luck >Martin > >In article <37E9A019.A79A0868@ipass.net>, > "Mitch C. Amiano" wrote: >> Rooting of figs is something generally difficult to prevent, even >> when you are really neglectful. >> >> Some tips: You can root figs in water. Very small (less than 6") >> cuttings seem to do poorly by comparison with medium sized cuttings >> of 6 to 8". Very old wood and very young wood tends to root more >slowly. >> Hormones can help, but aren't absolutely necessary. Cuttings seem to >> root better within an inch or so of a bud or branch, and worse for >wood >> farther from a bud node or branch especially when the cutting still >> has the branch on it. >> >> I would think that any cuttings you take now will have a tough time >> making it through the winter. >> >> malkin_weber@my-deja.com wrote: >> > >> > Can you say more about how to root fig cuttings? Do I need to use >> > rooting hormone or will they root in water? Plant outdoors in >November >> > or keep indoors till spring? >> > >> > A friend has a fig bush that sends up sprouts around the base, and >I've >> > tried digging some up and planting them, but they didn't survive >> > (possiby because I was not as careful as I should have been). Is >there a >> > trick to this? >> > >> > thanks >> > melissa >> > >> > In article <37c4a441.0@newport>, >> > "ukusa" wrote: >> > > By the >> > way, in November is when you root fig cuttings. >> > >> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't. >> > >-- >From there to here >from here to there >funny things are everywhere.. > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Before you buy. From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Sep 25 20:26:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04956 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09127 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09015 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04851 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:07:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22693 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:07:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:07:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2858 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:13:20 EDT From: Permacltur@aol.com Reply-To: permaculture To: permaculture Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland (fwd) There are a number of strategies for storing water on land, including farmland, all well developed through permaculture. The first strategy is to intercept water in high areas through a variety of measures. The principle measure would be, where land is sutable for cultivation, to develop keyline cultivation practices. This stores water in the ground, reducing or eliminating runoff, and thus limiting or eliminating flooding in low areas. Sometimes these are on the same parcel. This approache is well described in Water for Every Farm by P. A. Yeomans, as updated by Ken Yeomans. A close second is the interception of high runoff by diversion drains to high ponds created by saddle dams, contour dams, and such. This is described well in Permaculture Design Course Pamphlet III, Permaculture for Humid Landscapes by Bill Mollison. These techniques store water that would be flood waters at the highest possible points on the landscape. Where water is held in soil, local hydrology is enhanced and dry springs begin to run again. Where water is held in dams, some percolation also takes place, but mainly the water is held for irrigation during dry periods or for other uses where gavity feed provides great utility. If one waits until the water has reached a low point, it has had maximum opportunity to cause opportunity and takes maximum energy to move to a useful place. In land of gentle contours and in low lands, swales are a secondary strategy. The swales hold flood waters with the expressed intent of recharging ground water. I have used this technique in semi-arid places, even, to catch downpours permit percolation laterally into adjacent beds in production. In effect, the asiles between beds (on contour) double as swales. This was very effective. It is written up in The International Permaculture Solutions Journal, Vol. I, No. 3, as "dryland chinampas." Swales can be planted to species that tolerate flooding from time to time including some cultivated species of hawthorn (e.g. mayhaw), jujube, elderbery, and certain species grown for firewood or biomas, such as alder, willow, etc. Larger swales can be planted to paddi rice that tolerates upland conditions, such as M101, so that it will grow either while flooded or as if in upland conditons. By adopting Asian water buffalo to replace Bos genus cattle, flooded pasture land is fine pasture land. There are species of perennial grasses that grow on dry land or as emergent species under water. Waterfowl obviously are addtional animal species to consider to raise on such farms. Both geese and ducks feed under water and forage crops such as chuffa will produce well in lowland areas, serving as emergent crops if the water does not get too deep. If one has some portion of the land dug deep enough to always hold water, than plant and animal species can migrate quickly to flooded areas. Mosquito fish operate in well under an inch of water and help control the mosquitos during flood periods. Azolla should be grown in such biological reserve ponds, and duck weed, so that they can rapidly expand when conditions allow. This strategy is inappropriate where flooding is due to cold spring melt-off, however. Depending on duration of flood waters, such cold waters could grow trout, native catfish, buffalo fish, etc. Note that annual flooding with a crawfish harvest alternated with plant crops is a well established mainstream practice in Louisana where they benefit from a cycle of Winter rains and summer dry periods. This is well documented in extension documents from Louisiana. Along the Gulf states, bald cypress and crawfish farming produce a semi-aquatic agroforestry. Crawfish provide many of the same services in water that earthworms do on land. They grow from Canada to the tropics, with care in species selection. Even chickens can be managed to take advantage of flooding. Air-breathing invetebrates concentrate at the edge of the advancing flood waters and chicken on free range quickly learn to harvest them. Ducks would do well also. Retreating flood waters generally leaves a wet edge full of crawfish which pigs and ducks can harvest (if they get there ahead of the wild pigs and racoons). Finally, the ultimate approach in such areas is the development of chinampas, specially made raised beds which extend above the flood limit (in most cases) and grow crops. Channels developed in the construction of chinampas (built of alternating layers of vegetable matter and mucky soil) are very useful in aquaculture. By having some channels "blind", meaning cut off from the others by chinampas beds, species can be grown in one channel that is incompatible with species in others. For example, one would prefer to keep catfish out of channels in which crawfish are to be harvested directly (not as catfish). Chinampas are extremely high yield, when surrounded by flood waters exhibit moderation due to thermal mass and phase change energies (evaporation and condensation), have elevated light levels due to reflected light from water, never need irrigation, and lend to simple movement of harvest by boat. Beneficial edge effects are very high. In sites such as Barking Frogs Permaculture Center here in Florida, we plan to time fish harvest with diminishing water tables. (That is also the strategy of the wild predators, so some crop will go in that direction.) We are presently in process of designing and testing stategies suited to rather random flooding (the last being a 7-foot rise in the water table during the "dry" winter season of 1997-1998 that just recently returned to normal levels.) Water buffalo, which are the prime strategy, are as yet outside our budget. By eating rampant floating weeds they would increase fish production by orders of magnitude. The light penetrating the water would stimulate algae production which would release oxygen. At the moment, oxygen levels are so low that even crawfish production is limited (which is probably one reason why they invade freshly flooded land so rapidly--uncovered water means higher oxygen content plus an abundance of food, decaying plant matter.) We are also looking at pigs because the turnaround timne is short so herd size can be quickly adapted to reflect forage conditions. Pigs WILL root in water of up to 3 inches--at least the feral pigs around here do. We have been hesitant regarding waterfowl because of the liklihood of predation by alligators and because it would be difficult to prevent escape. On the other hand, my wife is seriously interested in investigating gator farming. Sort of solves the racoon problem, but round-up could be hell. (We remove about a racoon a week, on average, which seems to be a steady-state situation--still plenty of racoons. There is another cash crop--pelts--for someone who wants to bother.) A major problem on flooded pasture is that we seem to loose almost all our legumes for fixing nitrogen. Supression of nematodes by flooding is a somewhat compensatory benefit as is the fertilization by stranded floating plants and detritus, notably azolla which gives a bump in production for a few years. I guess flooding that is reliably seasonal would be a fairly simple design problem--here it is random, though the greatest liklihood over a millenium would probably be the fall months of hurricane season. Still it is hit or miss on a year-to-year basis. There are of course many more design considerations in flooded land, including access for livestock, people and crops, potential for plant diseases of certain crops promoted by anerobic conditions, and even prevailing wind direction. Here we benefit from being at the East edge of a large floodable area. With our winds very commonly from the West, we get deposits of nutrient-bearing floating detritus and plants during flood cycles that has made our side of the wetlands far more fertil than the far shore. Wind can build up a fair bit over open flooded areas and we are developing shelter belts of bald cypress (adimittedly for future generations) and hybrid willow to deal with this. We have also found one species of bamboo that persisted under water for months and still thrives. Well this is a very fertile area for productive design, but maybe these starter notes will jar a few thoughs loose. For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses, consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence courses via email. Copyright, 1999, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA Internships. YankeePerm@aol.com We don't have time to rush. A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html ---------- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 26 07:46:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10970 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02386 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:29:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02291 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA05945 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 06:28:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-191.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.191) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005914; Sun Sep 26 06:27:56 1999 Message-ID: <002801bf0812$7338d080$bffa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: internet article on plant diversity Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:29:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2859 http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/1999/09/092199/preport_5708.asp Just thought some might like to read. Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 26 09:11:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11757 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22602 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:56:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sphinx.aces.uiuc.edu (sphinx.aces.uiuc.edu [128.174.134.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22486 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acesadmin88.aces.uiuc.edu ([128.174.134.181]) by SPHINX.ACES.UIUC.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #32951) with SMTP id <01JGF38QVLQI0019G6@SPHINX.ACES.UIUC.EDU> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:56:06 CST Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:45:05 -0500 From: Deborah Cavanaugh-Grant Subject: Institutional Change Workshop X-Sender: cavanaughd@mail.aces.uiuc.edu (Unverified) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: DFDassoc@mindspring.com, kimleval@earthlink.net Message-id: <3.0.5.32.19990926074505.00b63700@mail.aces.uiuc.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2860 TO: Participants in the Second National Small Farms conference (October 12-15, St. Louis):, We'd like to encourage you to attend the "Institutional Change Workshop", led by Duane Dale and Kim Leval , on Tuesday, October 12 from 8:00 am to 12 noon right before the Small Farms Conference in St. Louis, MO. The workshop fee is $15, payable at the workshop. The workshop is limited to 40 so register early! How effective are we at changing institutions to better serve the public interest? Change is often a slow and painful process, especially when whole institutions are in the midst of change or are subject to outside pressures. This workshop will begin with an introduction to the dynamics of institutions, how institutions change and how to promote change. From this theoretical foundation, participants will explore change theory, case studies and reflect on their own experiences with institutional change in order to better affect change at their local institutions. Discussion will include agricultural colleges, the U.S. Department of Agriculture and other agricultural research institutions accountable to the public in the US. We wish to create a diverse and meaningful learning community from which we can later draw from and network within. The workshop will examine these key areas: * Where we're headed - our visions for a world in which our change efforts have succeeded. * Successes so far - our stories of recent change efforts. * The search for how to make effective change happen - the kernels of insight, gleaned from theory and from practice, which can guide our efforts in the future. Duane and Kim will provide a "field guide to change logics" based on contemporary thinking about institutional change from social science and from organization development. They will then provide case studies and coaching as we look for the change logics at work in our recent experience and identify the approaches which are proving to be most productive. Those who will benefit from this workshop include: farmers/ranchers; policy makers; community food security, environmental, and sustainable agriculture activists; extension agents and educators; university faculty and administrators. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN THE WORKSHOP, PLEASE LET Kim Leval know ASAP by email: kimleval@earthlink.net or phone: 541/687-1490. To help the organizers to plan the best possible workshop, we would appreciate your brief response to the following questions. Please reply to Kim at kimleval@earthlink.net as soon as you receive this message 1. What are your specific interests in institutional change? 2. What is your background? (farmer/rancher, extension educator, student, scientist, non-profit staff, policy-maker, academic, other) 3. What are your two most important learning goals for the workshop? What do you most want to come away with? Thank you! Kim Leval and Duane Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 26 09:29:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11844 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05452 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:21:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from 56-3.clever.net (56-3.clever.net [209.235.6.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05433 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (r-152.56.alltel.net [166.102.152.56]) by 56-3.clever.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA10568 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006801bf0820$e4470ae0$389866a6@default> Reply-To: "Christiane Hitchcock" From: "Christiane Hitchcock" To: References: <002801bf0812$7338d080$bffa6ed1@dan> Subject: Re: internet article on plant diversity Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:13:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2861 http://www.enn.com/enn-news-archive/1996/11/112196/feature.asp Another interesting article I found after following Beth's suggestion. Chris > http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/1999/09/092199/preport_5708.asp Just > thought some might like to read. Beth > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Sep 26 11:00:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13078 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18154 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:36:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from supermail.globaldialog.com (root@pop.globaldialog.com [156.46.122.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18134 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (wtn48ha1-2.gdinet.com [156.46.27.241]) by supermail.globaldialog.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29228 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:35:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:35:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909261435.JAA29228@supermail.globaldialog.com> X-Sender: prairiedf@pop.globaldialog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: prairiedf@globaldialog.com (Greg David) Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2862 Thanks to Lawrence F. London, Jr's. forwarded posting on speicies to use in artificial wetlands created thru permacultural techneques. We recently created a couple swails and this information will be quite valuable in species selection of the swale and resulting wetland. On another note, 'Acres USA' did a very interesting interview of a scientist studying the insoak capabilities of biologically dead soils vs. boilogically alive soils about 2 years ago. The results were astounding! The dead soils were only wet out to a depth of 3 or 4 inces after a severe plains thunderstorm. Most of the rain ended up in the ditches and rivers along with its load of silt and soil particles. The alive soils were able to insoak 1 1/2 inches of rain in the first hour before runoff began to occur. Pretty imprerssive differences! IMO the use of high technology, and expoitive agricultural practices around the world are the leading cause of rampant flooding world wide. Thanks, Greg To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 04:02:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08411 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA06123 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 03:44:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06009 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 03:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (root@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28835 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:44:37 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16387 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:44:47 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 27 Sep 99 09:37:56 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 27 Sep 99 09:37:29 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:37:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Avery a lia Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <74FA9D4135@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2863 hello Pat: a) you needn't go to south america or asia to see forest area in decline report titled ENDANGERED ECOSYSTEMS OF THE UNITED STATES: A PRELIMINARY ASSESSMENT OF LOSS AND DEGRADATION, available from the National Biological Service (NBS), a research organization within the federal Department of Interior. We obtained the report over the Internet,[3] and its conclusions are stunning: ** 90 percent of its ancient or "old-growth" forests have been lost. ** 95-98 percent of the virgin forests in the lower 48 states had been destroyed by 1990; 99 percent of the virgin Eastern deciduous forests have been eliminated. ** In the Northeast, 97 percent of Connecticut's coastline is developed; 95 percent of Maryland's natural barrier island beaches are gone; and almost all of Ohio's bottomland hardwood forests are gone. ** In the South, 99.99 percent of Kentucky's native prairies have disappeared; 98 percent of the Southeast coastal plain's longleaf pine forests are gone; and 88 percent of southwest Florida's slash pine forests have been eliminated. ** In the Midwest and Great Plains, 90 percent of the tallgrass prairie has disappeared, as has virtually all of the prairie in Michigan and Ohio, 72 percent of Minnesota's northern hardwood forests, and 86 percent of Minnesota's red and white pine forests. ** In the West, 99 percent of California's native grassland is gone, as are up to 90 percent of western Montana's old growth forests and low-elevation grasslands; half of Colorado's wetlands and 90 percent of Hawaii's dry forests and grasslands are gone.[4] b) TIMBER SUPPLY: Only 12.3% of the United States' timber supply comes from your national forests. where do you think, you get the rest from ? deforestation is not due to growing lifestock feed, but for timber like mahogany... -------------- Headline: "U.S. Punishes Mining Company Over Abuse" Source: San Francisco Chronicle Date: Thursday, November 2, 1995 By Jim Mann, Los Angeles Times Page 4 Washington In an unprecedented action against environmental abuse by American companies overseas, the Clinton administration yesterday cut off $100 million in federal insurance to a U.S. company whose gold and copper mining in Indonesia were said to be damaging tropical rain forests and rivers. The Overseas Private Investment Corp., the federal agency that provides political-risk insurance for U.S. firms operating abroad, terminated its guarantees for the Indonesian operations of Freeport-McMoran Copper & Gold Inc. of New Orleans. It was the first time the agency had cut off insurance to any American company for environmental or human rights reasons. American businesses trying to start operations in new areas often say they need the agency's insurance more than any other help from the U.S. government. Political-risk insurance, which protects a company against the possibility that its assets overseas will be damaged or seized because of political upheaval, is often hard to obtain from private insurers. On Friday, President Clinto turned aside an appeal from Indonesian President Suharto, who urged the administration to preserve the insurance guarantees for Freeport-McMoran. The American company owns 80 percent of the Indonesian mining venture; the Indonesian government holds 9 percent, and private investors in Indonesia the remaining 11 percent. Freeport-McMoran said in a statement yesterday that it was "disturbed" by the government's action. It said that the agency "lacks a legal basis for cancelling the coverage" and that the dispute had been submitted to arbitration. The company also said it was in compliance with Indonesian environmental regulations and was "committed to the highest environmental standards in our mining operations." ---- but you are right, major importers of food, which becomes feed are european countries, because they have no CHEAP protein-rich feed like soy, copra, palmoil, cocos oil.. and it's not the american, who are no. 1 in robbing forest, it's the asian countries. "nice" example japan: one meal, one pair of chopsticks gone. than pretty soon sums up to a lot of wood.... Asian logging giants extend reach Rainforests are major targets August 18, 1996 Copyright 1996 Associated Press KUCHING, Malaysia (AP) -- Flush with expertise and profits from felling local rainforests, Asian logging companies have begun stripping millions of acres of timberland around the world. Their reach extends from South Pacific islands to pristine forests in Latin America and Africa. According to an Associated Press survey, their operations are accelerating -- as is the opposition they face from indigenous people and environmentalists. With Malaysians and Indonesians at the forefront, Asian companies started moving out in the mid-1980s. They now dominate rainforest logging worldwide. Some of their concessions are already the size of small countries, and their sights are set on such riches as Brazil's Amazon forests. "What we are witnessing today is a relatively new trend of 'South- South colonialism,' whereby southern transnational companies are making heavy investments in other 'more backward' Third World countries," said Marcus Colchester of the Britain-based World Rainforest Movement. Companies contacted insist they are practicing sustainable logging that will not destroy forests. They project themselves as entrepreneurs from dynamic economies that less developed nations should emulate. But in a clash that appears to leave little middle ground, conservationists charge that many loggers operate like "robber barons," depleting an ecologically important resource at unconscionable rates and violating native rights. "That's not to say there aren't bad European and American companies, but Asians are the worst," said Jean-Paul Jeanreneaud of the Switzerland- based World Wide Fund for Nature. "They are more cavalier, less concerned about environmental and social issues. And they're all over the place." A study financed by the World Bank and the United Nations warned in early August that logging is endangering half of the world's remaining 5 billion acres of tropical forest. It said the rest is threatened by slash- and-burn farming techniques used by primitive peoples. Among recent findings by Associated Press reporters in Latin America, Asia and Africa: -- The next major targets for Asian loggers are the Amazon, probably the world's top timber source in the coming decade, and Africa, where European logging companies have tended to dominate. Asian companies have bought 8.6 million acres in the Brazilian Amazon. Purchases over the next two years could reach 22.2 million acres, or about 15 percent of the harvestable forest. "By the end of next year, the Amazon lumber industry will have a new face - - an Asian one," said Francisco Coelho, president of the Amazonas State Sawyers Syndicate. ----- klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 05:17:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08736 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA02372 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:01:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02337 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d01-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.128] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA10251; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:59:58 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "Kendra Wise" , Subject: RE: Introduction and learning Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:07:04 +1000 Message-ID: <001c01bf08c7$aa7e9600$8079a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2864 Kendra wrote: "I'd like to ask those of you who actively farm sustainably what you consider your most valuable skills and abilities. I'm interested in both academic skills and learning as well as practical abilities. I suppose that this may be considered a request for a 10-year course of study on theories and practices of sustainable agriculture." Kendra, we are not all that far ahead of you. I'd like to suggest that you see if there is a week long or several weekends Permaculture Designers Certificate course conducted anywhere climatically relevant to your conditions. Apart from a lot of valuable learning about ecological principles and about leaving a light footprint on the land, you may meet others of similar mind. Americans on the list [I am in Australia] will have more ideas on location for that. The most exciting, rewarding experience for me, in the decade we have been getting our very very small farm under way, is in the realisation that is can be very enjoyable developing a system attuned with nature, rather than trying simply to do something mechanical and get a product. Especially when you aren't there with a tractor to bully things every day, you find it makes so much more sense to watch natural processes and see how you can work with them. We've had the force of floods and drought to help us realise this, but the more time you can make, just to sit and watch the ants and birds go by, the better. Go camping. We have spent an awful lot of time reviewing whether we really want to do this, and lots of thoughts have gone through our minds along the way. If you are planning to grow organically, if you are planning to do something small, money and land wise, energy and staffing wise, then you have to look at diversity and making sure that you do things you really like to do, and that you spread the workload over time (we have 150 fruit trees whose crops need harvesting at different times, and different trees may do better in different years; a neighbour, b contrast, has 200 cherries in a row, meaning two weeks of too much labour, and anyway cherries are wrong here [a] because the birds eat them and [b] because they are ripe here too late for the lucrative Christmas cherry market (maybe cherries at Christmas is one of the really interesting aspects of summer down-under). It is also in the nature of organic produce that lots of it will have marks that sprays may prevent in conventional farming. This means you may think it would be good to process food or fibres, to sell jams or fabric or art items. And a very important issue, which bears heavily on the choice of land, is whether you want to be remote from traffic, enjoy tranquility, or catch the passing trade, have people dropping in without notice. You have to know a lot about yourself and what you want to be doing day to day. Gord Hawkes, outside Ottawa, has a shopfront, and a great new website, can't find the address, you there Gord? Promote yourself, man! The vision you have, Kendra, with its diversity, is certainly our ideal, too, but each item demands so many skills. Can you keep hens where you are? That's an excellent start in animal husbandry and they give insight into whether you'd rather watch TV, read a book or sit out with the girls in the chook run. I think our hens are smarter than most TV commentators, and have more depth of personality. Remember too that the practical skills mount up, and you have to apply them when not expected, and in clumps, not in neat order. The last time I was at the farm there was one lunchtime when the missing parts for the shed I had come to build had still not turned up; I was way behind with wood cutting and poor maintenance meant I had let the chain come off the chainsaw and I had to get a flat file to take burrs off the drive teeth; and I realised the water tank (for house and orchard) was just about empty and I took the slasher (brush hog) off the tractor (fighting with the joint on the lower link that's gummed up) to attach the trailer to cart wood and take the pump to the creek - but then the tractor, having been working hot all morning, blew all the water in the radiator out of the bottom hose... and still we had to get lunch, light the wood fired hot water service to wash at the end of the day. All these things got fixed - except the shed, we are off to finish that in the morning! - but Margaret remarked that the need to sort out all the little practical things ourselves reminded her of her astonishment when she was young and her boyfriend's car broke down - she was then really worked up about not getting to do something important that day, she recalled, and she just couldn't understand (I suspect that was putting it politely) his calm. He [not me], a farmer, simply started on fixing the car, postponing whatever else to a later date. There is something very different about the way you have to follow the machine's whim's as well of those of nature, when you are out on your own. You can't afford - in time, money or distance, not to mention pride - to cart the problem off to town; you'd never do anything else. I think there are so many differences between organic farmers it's hard to generalise, but there is perhaps a broad difference to be made between those who have taken their conventional farming, on broadacre scale, over the line to organic, for various reasons, and those who are, like you, working in from this other direction. That's why I think the permaculture course is relevant. In the early 1980s a book from our local agriculture department 'Farming in a Small Way' said that you needed $500,000 to $750,000 to make a full income off a small farm. I don't know what our local figure is now. I don't know if US contributors have figures to suggest. What the numbers meant was that we could only look at the farming side as income supplementation, some modest degree of self-sufficiency, but most of our return is psychological, not that that is a small thing. But money is important in your calculations. Strategic planning and budgetting are essential. You may want to look at eco-villages, where people share skills and space and values. Here are two very different examples in this country. Not sure what is on offer in the U.S. http://www.rosneath.com.au/index.html looks interesting, lovely location - though it's as far from us as from Baltimore is from the top corner of Washington State, in distance and state of mind. http://www.crossroads.org.au/ is near at hand, but looks absolutely bloody terrifying, maybe because I know some of those involved, and I know the soil is terrible and the weather runs from hot dry to bleak cold. And leaving the car at the gate, dressing medieval and leading the horse home in the rain - you've got to be kidding. You need to be happy to share bonnet bees, or at least a lot of time, in such communities. The Rosneath example seems open-minded, but I got an e-mail from the key organiser the other day apologising for not replying to a message of mine in July saying they had not had a night without visitors in the house. Choosing lots of company or tranquility is a key issue. so, going to the country does seem to involve making a lot of lifestyle decisions all in a package, in a way that is not necessary in town, where you can alter aspects of life more easily and bit by bit. cheers Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 08:49:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10469 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27541 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:20:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27530 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA21623 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:18:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-54.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.54) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma021523; Mon Sep 27 07:18:13 1999 Message-ID: <001001bf08e2$9746e4a0$36f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: Subject: old growth forest Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:19:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2865 Klaus wrote: a) you needn't go to south america or asia to see forest area in decline report titled ENDANGERED ECOSYSTEMS OF THE UNITED STATES: A PRELIMINARY ASSESSMENT OF LOSS AND DEGRADATION, available from the National Biological Service (NBS), a research organization within the federal Department of Interior. We obtained the report over the Internet,[3] and its conclusions are stunning: ** 90 percent of its ancient or "old-growth" forests have been lost. ** 95-98 percent of the virgin forests in the lower 48 states had been destroyed by 1990; 99 percent of the virgin Eastern deciduous forests have been eliminated. ** In the Northeast, 97 percent of Connecticut's coastline is developed; 95 percent of Maryland's natural barrier island beaches are gone; and almost all of Ohio's bottomland hardwood forests are gone. Just a side note you might say: While I fully agree with the above in Massachusetts anway there are now more trees than there were in the late 1700's-1800's. They are not old growth trees of course, but with the amount of suburban sprawl we got going it's amazing anyway. But I believe its due to the fact that where open space is still undeveloped it is not acres and acres of pasture and cultivated farmland like it was one and two centuries ago. Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 09:58:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11568 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07617 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:31:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f25.hotmail.com [207.82.250.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA07496 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28395 invoked by uid 0); 27 Sep 1999 13:30:03 -0000 Message-ID: <19990927133003.28394.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.54.67 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:30:03 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.54.67] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Vt Dairy Farm Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:30:03 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2866 Thanks to all you all who sent me info about the dairy farm. I appreciate your help!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 11:30:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13404 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05736 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:32:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05726 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dog.iatp.org ([208.141.36.82]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 244 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:37:25 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990927095316.00888500@mail.iatp.org> X-Sender: mmuller@mail.iatp.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:53:17 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Mark Muller" Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2867 Great concept William, Storage of flood water on farmland is another example of the multi-functional potential of farmland. About a year and a half ago the Blue Earth River Basin Initiative in Southern Minnesota and the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy facilitated a policy discussion on on-farm water storage with mostly farmers and agricultural consultants. We found that overloaded drainage systems are an important scenario to target. In southern Minnesota many of the drainage systems are over 50 years old, and with more tiling capturing more water, some systems are beyond their limit. In the Rice Lake Watershed in Fairbault County, a water storage/drainage system has been proposed to reroute water away from the overloaded drainage system. I do not know the current status of that proposal. On-farm flood water storage is another example of a large-scale environmental problem--like climate change and nutrient management--that can be partially mitigated with better soil quality, reduced tillage, cover crops, and other sustainable practices. Mark Mark Muller Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 phone: (612) 870-3420 fax: (612) 870-4846 email: mmuller@iatp.org website: http://www.iatp.org/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 12:06:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13972 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29119 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:23:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29067 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:23:26 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:22:11 -0500 X-ROUTED: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:22:10 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.79] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0a2d373c ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:21:54 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990927101133.007f7af0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:11:33 -0500 To: Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Av Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2868 I think Klaus makes a good point here. In the US and other industrialized countries, we whine, bitch and moan that the developing countries are (oh shock and horror) denuding their forested lands for economic gain. We conviently ignore that probably most of this is done by multinationals to supply markets in the developed countries directly or is the result of displacement from other lands now devoted to the "export market". We, who have almost totally destroyed our own native forests and prairie are now saying "No, no don't do that"? Until we change the economic system that drives this behavior, nothing will be done differently especially with the WTO, written by and for multinationals, gaining ascendancy as the defacto world government controlling member nation's economic, environmental and labor policies thought lawsuits. Hypocritically yours, Mike Miller .>To: MMiller >From: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de >Date: 27 Sep 99 03:20:56 -0600 >Subject: Re: Sustainable Meat Production--was "Is Dennis Av > > >hello Pat: > > >a) you needn't go to south america or asia to see forest area in >decline > >report titled ENDANGERED ECOSYSTEMS OF THE UNITED STATES: A >PRELIMINARY ASSESSMENT OF LOSS AND DEGRADATION, available from the >National Biological Service (NBS), a research organization within >the federal Department of Interior. We obtained the report over >the Internet,[3] and its conclusions are stunning: > >** 90 percent of its ancient or "old-growth" forests have been >lost. > >** 95-98 percent of the virgin forests in the lower 48 states had >been destroyed by 1990; 99 percent of the virgin Eastern >deciduous forests have been eliminated. > >** In the Northeast, 97 percent of Connecticut's coastline is >developed; 95 percent of Maryland's natural barrier island >beaches are gone; and almost all of Ohio's bottomland hardwood >forests are gone. > >** In the South, 99.99 percent of Kentucky's native prairies have >disappeared; 98 percent of the Southeast coastal plain's longleaf >pine forests are gone; and 88 percent of southwest Florida's >slash pine forests have been eliminated. > >** In the Midwest and Great Plains, 90 percent of the tallgrass >prairie has disappeared, as has virtually all of the prairie in >Michigan and Ohio, 72 percent of Minnesota's northern hardwood >forests, and 86 percent of Minnesota's red and white pine forests. > >** In the West, 99 percent of California's native grassland is >gone, as are up to 90 percent of western Montana's old growth >forests and low-elevation grasslands; half of Colorado's wetlands >and 90 percent of Hawaii's dry forests and grasslands are gone.[4] > > > >b) TIMBER SUPPLY: Only 12.3% of the United States' timber supply >comes from your national forests. > >where do you think, you get the rest from ? > >deforestation is not due to growing lifestock feed, but for timber >like mahogany... > > >-------------- >Headline: "U.S. Punishes Mining Company Over Abuse" >Source: San Francisco Chronicle >Date: Thursday, November 2, 1995 >By Jim Mann, Los Angeles Times >Page 4 > >Washington > >In an unprecedented action against environmental abuse by >American companies overseas, the Clinton administration yesterday >cut off $100 million in federal insurance to a U.S. company whose >gold and copper mining in Indonesia were said to be damaging >tropical rain forests and rivers. > >The Overseas Private Investment Corp., the federal agency that >provides political-risk insurance for U.S. firms operating >abroad, terminated its guarantees for the Indonesian operations >of Freeport-McMoran Copper & Gold Inc. of New Orleans. > >It was the first time the agency had cut off insurance to any >American company for environmental or human rights reasons. > >American businesses trying to start operations in new areas often >say they need the agency's insurance more than any other help >from the U.S. government. Political-risk insurance, which >protects a company against the possibility that its assets >overseas will be damaged or seized because of political upheaval, >is often hard to obtain from private insurers. > >On Friday, President Clinto turned aside an appeal from >Indonesian President Suharto, who urged the administration to >preserve the insurance guarantees for Freeport-McMoran. The >American company owns 80 percent of the Indonesian mining >venture; the Indonesian government holds 9 percent, and private >investors in Indonesia the remaining 11 percent. > >Freeport-McMoran said in a statement yesterday that it was >"disturbed" by the government's action. It said that the agency >"lacks a legal basis for cancelling the coverage" and that the >dispute had been submitted to arbitration. > >The company also said it was in compliance with Indonesian >environmental regulations and was "committed to the highest >environmental standards in our mining operations." >---- > >but you are right, major importers of food, which becomes feed >are european countries, because they have no CHEAP protein-rich >feed like soy, copra, palmoil, cocos oil.. > >and it's not the american, who are no. 1 in robbing forest, it's >the asian countries. "nice" example japan: one meal, one pair of >chopsticks gone. than pretty soon sums up to a lot of wood.... > > >Asian logging giants extend reach >Rainforests are major targets >August 18, 1996 >Copyright 1996 Associated Press > >KUCHING, Malaysia (AP) -- Flush with expertise and profits from >felling local rainforests, Asian logging companies have begun >stripping millions of acres of timberland around the world. > >Their reach extends from South Pacific islands to pristine forests >in Latin America and Africa. According to an Associated Press >survey, their operations are accelerating -- as is the opposition >they face from indigenous people and environmentalists. > >With Malaysians and Indonesians at the forefront, Asian companies >started moving out in the mid-1980s. They now dominate rainforest >logging worldwide. > >Some of their concessions are already the size of small countries, >and their sights are set on such riches as Brazil's Amazon >forests. > >"What we are witnessing today is a relatively new trend of 'South- >South colonialism,' whereby southern transnational companies are >making heavy investments in other 'more backward' Third World >countries," said Marcus Colchester of the Britain-based World >Rainforest Movement. > >Companies contacted insist they are practicing sustainable logging >that will not destroy forests. They project themselves as >entrepreneurs from dynamic economies that less developed nations >should emulate. > >But in a clash that appears to leave little middle ground, >conservationists charge that many loggers operate like "robber >barons," depleting an ecologically important resource at >unconscionable rates and violating native rights. > >"That's not to say there aren't bad European and American >companies, but Asians are the worst," said Jean-Paul Jeanreneaud >of the Switzerland- based World Wide Fund for Nature. "They are >more cavalier, less concerned about environmental and social >issues. And they're all over the place." > >A study financed by the World Bank and the United Nations warned >in early August that logging is endangering half of the world's >remaining 5 billion acres of tropical forest. It said the rest is >threatened by slash- and-burn farming techniques used by primitive >peoples. > >Among recent findings by Associated Press reporters in Latin >America, Asia and Africa: > >-- The next major targets for Asian loggers are the Amazon, >probably the world's top timber source in the coming decade, and >Africa, where European logging companies have tended to dominate. > >Asian companies have bought 8.6 million acres in the Brazilian >Amazon. Purchases over the next two years could reach 22.2 million >acres, or about 15 percent of the harvestable forest. > >"By the end of next year, the Amazon lumber industry will have a >new face - - an Asian one," said Francisco Coelho, president of the >Amazonas State Sawyers Syndicate. >----- > > >klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 13:23:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15601 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25704 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:23:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25689 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cfi_main_02.cfarm.com (cfi_main_02.cfarm.com [204.57.236.21]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09025 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by cfi_main_02.cfarm.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:13:55 -0700 Message-ID: <9565EC3DEE37D211886A00A0C9D5DCE336ADA3@cfi_main_02.cfarm.com> From: "McERLICH, ALEC" To: "'sanet-mg'" Subject: Yahoo - Heinz to Acquire 19.5% of Hain Food Group. Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:13:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BF0903.4BB05564" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2869 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF0903.4BB05564 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF0903.4BB05564" ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0903.4BB05564 Content-Type: text/plain <> ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF0903.4BB05564 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yahoo - Heinz to Acquire 19.5% of Hain Food Group.

    <<Yahoo - = Heinz to Acquire 19.5% of Hain Food Group; Global Strategic Alliance = Part of Heinz and Hain Growth Strategies; Hain Acquires Earth's Best = Baby Food Brand from Heinz.htm>> =

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    Company Press = Release

    SOURCE:=0A= H. J. Heinz Company

    Heinz to Acquire 19.5% of Hain Food Group; = Global Strategic Alliance Part of Heinz and Hain Growth Strategies; = Hain Acquires Earth's Best Baby Food Brand from = Heinz

    =0A= =0A=

    PITTSBURGH, and UNIONDALE, N.Y., Sept. 27, 1999 /PRNewswire/ -- H. = J.=0A= Heinz Company (NYSE: HNZ - news) and The Hain Food Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: = HAIN - news) today=0A= announced an agreement to form a strategic alliance for the global = production=0A= and marketing of=0A= natural and organic foods and soy-based beverages.=0A= This=0A= nearly $100 million investment by Heinz will give it a minority stake = (19.5%=0A= or 3.5 million shares) in Hain and was based on a per-share purchase = price in=0A= excess of the $28.4375 closing price of Hain stock on Friday, September = 24,=0A= 1999.=0A= Further, Heinz will provide procurement, manufacturing and logistic=0A= expertise while Hain will provide marketing, sales and distribution = services.

    The natural and organic food category represents a $20 = billion U.S.=0A= business growing at 15 to 18 percent annually.=0A= Hain is projecting more than=0A= $300 million in revenues for the current year, following revenues of=0A= $206 million in the year ended June 30, up from $104 million the prior = year.=0A= Hain is the U.S.A.'s leading natural and organic food company, with = more than=0A= 3,500 products offered under such well-known names as Health Valley = cereal,=0A= bakery and soups; Terra Chip snacks; and Westsoy, the largest soy = beverage=0A= marketer.

    ``This strategic alliance thrusts Heinz into the natural = and organic food=0A= segment, which is among the fastest growing in the international = food=0A= industry.=0A= Heinz is the first major U.S. food company to gain such direct=0A= access to natural food retail stores.=0A= We see attractive opportunities for us=0A= in our global markets,'' explained William R. Johnson, Heinz president = and=0A= chief executive officer.=0A= ``We will marry Heinz's great strength and scale in=0A= low-cost international procurement, manufacturing and logistics with = Hain's=0A= talent and success in the marketing, sales and distribution to = specialty food=0A= outlets.=0A= The resulting sales growth and cost synergies will benefit=0A= shareholders of both Heinz and Hain and will be accretive to the = earnings per=0A= share of both companies in the first year.''

    As part of the strategic = alliance, Heinz will be represented on the=0A= expanded Hain board of directors by Joseph Jimenez, president and CEO = of Heinz=0A= North America, and Malcolm Ritchie, executive vice president of the H. = J.=0A= Heinz Company and president Heinz Europe.=0A= Heinz and Hain will exchange some=0A= technical and management personnel in collaborative research and = manufacturing=0A= programs.=0A= Additionally, Hain will acquire from Heinz the trademark and name=0A= for Earth's Best organic baby foods.

    ``I am happy that Hain has = forged this alliance with one of the world's=0A= foremost food companies.=0A= Hain has been marketing and distributing Earth's=0A= Best products since 1998; we have increased sales by more than 25% and = believe=0A= there is great global potential for the brand beyond infant feeding,'' = noted=0A= Irwin Simon, president and CEO of Hain.=0A= ``This alliance is a strategic fit=0A= with our expanding product line, and we have some of the strongest = names in=0A= the natural and organic food industry with great growth = opportunities=0A= internationally and domestically.''

    The $20 billion U.S. market for = natural and organic foods includes=0A= $12 billion in sales in specialty stores (natural and organic food = shops) and=0A= $8 billion through traditional supermarkets.=0A= Hain has number-one or=0A= number-two market shares in 11 of the top 15 natural and organic = food=0A= categories.

    ``With growing consumer demand for natural and functional = foods in=0A= North America, Heinz and Hain will form a powerful global team.=0A= This will=0A= enable Heinz to leverage the Hain sales and distribution network to = drive=0A= functional food sales in North America,'' Mr. Jimenez said.

    Mr. Simon = added:=0A= ``Traditional supermarkets, drug stores and mass=0A= merchandisers are rapidly expanding their natural and organic = product=0A= offerings and, by joining with Heinz, we will grow and, at the same = time,=0A= reach economies of scale in production and improve our supply chain.=0A= And,=0A= with the resources and global capabilities of Heinz, Hain will be = positioned=0A= for the first time to satisfy the growing international demand for = healthy=0A= foods and snacks.''

    ``We expect to greatly extend our European sales = in this segment as a=0A= result of the Hain partnership, which gives us access to the rapidly = growing=0A= natural and organic food business, in addition to other items in the = cereal,=0A= snack, condiment and baked goods categories,'' explained Mr. = Ritchie.

    The alliance with Hain complements Heinz's worldwide = portfolio of brands=0A= that meet special nutritional needs.=0A= The $100 million Heinz range includes an=0A= array of gluten-free and other special diet products made by Heinz = Italy under=0A= the brand names Bi-Aglut, Aproten and Dieterba.=0A= Additionally, it offers=0A= Complan and Glucon D nutritional drink mixes, sold in India and parts = of=0A= Europe and South Africa.=0A= ``We will expand sales of these foods in the=0A= United States through Hain's outstanding marketing and distribution = network,''=0A= Mr. Simon explained.

    ``The goal of our strategic alliance is to = heighten consumer awareness of=0A= the benefits of natural and organic food and make Heinz a global leader = in=0A= this profitable segment of the industry,'' Mr. Jimenez said.=0A= ``Heinz has been=0A= known as the pure food company since its founding.=0A= This partnership with Hain=0A= positions Heinz in the forefront of one of the leading consumer trends = in the=0A= food industry.''

    Heinz and Hain have worked together on other = products for the past=0A= two years.=0A= Hain manufactures, markets and sells certain Weight Watchers brand=0A= dry and refrigerated products under a 1997 licensing agreement with = Heinz.=0A= The line includes salad dressings, canned soups, sauces, cookies and=0A= mayonnaise, among other items.=0A= Also in 1997, Hain acquired from Heinz the=0A= Alba Foods line of regular and non-fat dry milk products, cocoa mixes = and=0A= dairy shakes.

    This transaction is subject to customary regulatory = approval.

    The above contains certain forward-looking statements which = are based on=0A= management's current views and assumptions regarding future events = and=0A= financial performance.=0A= For Heinz, reference should be made to the section=0A= ``Forward-Looking Statements'' in Item 1 of H. J. Heinz Company's = Annual Report=0A= on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended April 28, 1999 for a description = of the=0A= important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially = from=0A= those discussed above.=0A= For Hain, certain of the statements in this press=0A= release are forward looking in nature and, accordingly, are subject to = risks=0A= and uncertainties.=0A= The actual results may differ materially from those=0A= described or contemplated.

    ABOUT HEINZ:=0A= With sales over $9 billion, H. J. Heinz Company is one of=0A= the world's leading food processors and purveyors of nutritional = services.=0A= Its 50 affiliates operate in some 200 countries, offering more than=0A= 5,700 varieties.=0A= Among the company's famous brands are Heinz, StarKist,=0A= Ore-Ida, 9-Lives, Weight Watchers, Wattie's, Plasmon, Farley's, Smart = Ones,=0A= The Budget Gourmet, Rosetto, Bagel Bites, John West, Petit Navire, = Skippy,=0A= Kibbles 'n Bits, Pounce, Wagwells, Nature's Recipe, Orlando, Olivine = and=0A= Pudliszki.=0A= Information on Heinz is available at http://www.heinz.com.

    ABOUT = HAIN:=0A= The Hain Food Group, headquartered in Uniondale, NY, is a=0A= natural, specialty and snack food company.=0A= The Company is a leader in many of=0A= the top 15 natural food categories, with such well-known natural food = brands=0A= as Hain Pure Foods®, Westbrae®=0A= Natural, Westsoy®, Arrowhead Mills®,=0A= Health Valley®, Breadshop's®, Casbah®, Garden of = Eatin®, Terra=0A= Chips®, DeBoles®, Earth's Best®, and Nile Spice.=0A= The company's=0A= principal specialty and snack food product lines include Hollywood® = cooking=0A= oils, Estee® sugar-free products, Weight Watchers® dry and = refrigerated=0A= products, Kineret® kosher foods, Boston Better Snacks®, Harry's = Premium=0A= Snacks and Alba Foods®.=0A= Hain's Internet web site is=0A= http://www.thehainfoodgroup.com= .=0A= =0A= =0A=

    SOURCE:=0A= H. J. Heinz Company


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    =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF0903.4BB05564-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 13:34:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15840 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:34:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06147 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:45:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06137 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandy.surfsouth.com (IDENT:root@sandy.surfsouth.com [205.139.60.110]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09386 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from surfsouth.com (02-ocil-05e.dial.optilinkcomm.net [216.128.152.220]) by sandy.surfsouth.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01280 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:43:36 -0400 Message-ID: <37EF9E9E.513D2912@surfsouth.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:43:11 -0400 From: David Drexler Reply-To: david@paulowniatrees.com Organization: PaulowniaTrees.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Depleted Forest Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2870 If the forest are so depleted then why is the price for timber at nearly an all time low? Old growth forest that are gone will remain gone. Forest can be regenerated but the old is gone forever. What is the true story on forest resources? Lumber and timber prices are determined by supply and demand with not too much govt. regulation of prices. So what is the true story of supply??? David D. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 14:09:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16760 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25661 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:24:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25647 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-4.ofrf.org (ofrf4.tychonet.com [205.179.36.4]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id KAA28125 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:23:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from research@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19990927101104.00945b00@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: ofrf@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:21:24 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: Re: Brown rot of peaches Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2871 Nathan, OFRF funded research on organic peach brown rot control by Carl Rosato in Oroville and Hans Wittig formerly of Oregon State. We have reports from this research available if you would like a ny copies. Carl found that the most successful test solutions in deterring the growth of brown rot were pink mucoid yeast and algrow kelp and basalt rock dust milk. Hans found that M-Pede insecticidal soap significantly reduced brown rot of peaches. If you would like more information about this research please contact us at the e-mail or phone below. Rebecca King Program Associate Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 ph: (831) 426-6606 fax: (831) 426-6670 www.ofrf.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 14:48:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17996 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12907 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:08:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from borg.cc.vt.edu (borg.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.242]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12900 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:08:34 -0400 (EDT) From: karenm@vt.edu Received: by borg.cc.vt.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:07:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: GMO questions Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:07:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2872 I'm trying to write an article for our bimonthly newsletter. The article will discuss GMOs for Joe Consumer who doesn't know what he's getting in his food or what the potential environmnetal impacts might be. I've done a lot of reading and talking to people here at Va. Tech, but I'm left with some questions that haven't been resolved. I really need scientifically based answers, not "gut reactions," and citations, please. 1. Some GMO's could have been produced by conventional breeding practices, but genetic engineering has speeded up the process. Is this a true statement? Can you give me examples? If it is true, do these plants/animals have the same problems associated with them as GMO's that have bacteria, viruses, or genes from other species inserted into them? 2. The literature says GMO's will reduce pesticide usage. However, if a farmer can spray roundup over an emerged crop and the crop isn't effected, won't he be likely to use more pesticide rather than less? I do understand that Bt crops can result in lower pesticide usage. Thanks for your help. Karen Mundy Communications Coordinator Rural Economic Analysis Program Department of Agricultural and Applied Economics (0401) Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-9443 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 14:57:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18119 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20120 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:19:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20104 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11254 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA29837; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm5-13.nidlink.com [216.18.141.20]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA11652; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909271818.LAA11652@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:29:55 -0700 To: , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: RR Soybean Yield Drag Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2873 Sometimes conflicting information has been posted of late on yield drag in some GMO varieties. Herein I offer a few comments in the hope of placing available data and knowledge in perspective re herbicide tolerant varieties. In the case of herbicide tolerant crops, the genetic or classical breeding modifications required to make a crop resistance to a herbicide are not designed and almost certainly never increase the varieties inherent yield potential. No one claims that they do. In most cases, the genetic transformation comes at some cost to the plant; i.e., it imposes some degree of physiological yield drag because it requires the plant to not just carry out normal growth processes, but also to do something that detoxifies or otherwise makes the plant immune, or largely immune from the effects of a herbicide. In general, there are still no free lunches, although it is true that breeders are making progress, and will make further progress, to isolate the specific genes that confer resistance and more "efficiently" incorporate them in varieties. It is possible a no yield drag Roundup Ready crop will yet be created, but I suspect it will be the exception, not the rule. Yield increases in herbicide tolerant varieties are often reported and come from improved weed management and/or lessened injury from other herbicides, especially the low-dose, very active and sometimes damaging sulfonylureas and imidazolinone herbicides. Many of the herbicide products in these two families of chemistry are very persistent in some soils/systems and can cause carryover problems with subsequent crops. The five major issues/concerns in need of monitoring over time in the case of herbicide tolerant varieties are : * these weed management systems are designed to be largely or fully dependent on herbicides as weed management tools, and hence increase reliance on them and the frequency and intensity of their use relative to other systems that include some other practices in a multi-tactic, "many little hammers" integrated weed management system * cost/profitability consequences for farmers and the relative benefits farmers receive versus seed/pesticide companies * added sprays, and the higher rates possible with resistant varieties, and needed for later season control when weeds are bigger and harder to control, will trigger shifts in weed communities, requiring additional herbicides or weed management practices (clearly happening with RR soybeans in the U.S.) * added sprays, higher rates can accelerate the emergence of resistant weeds, a process that is also unfolding in the U.S. * loss of flexibility in planning crop rotations and using cover crops because of the need to avoid herbicide carryover damage On the yield drag front, Kansas State University researchers have recently posted a useful assessment of the impacts of different herbicide mixtures on RR soybeans and conventional varieties (see . They conclude that commonly applied pre-emergence or post-emergence products can be combined with Roundup/RR beans without causing problems with RR soybean yields. They also calculated the yield drag between RR varieties and closely matched conventional varieties in a "weed free environment." This experimental design is a good one to isolate yield drag from impacts on the quality of weed management. Trials were conducted in three locations in the state; the mean yield drag was 8.8% (5 bushels) in one; 2.2% in a second location (not stat. significant); and 10.8% in a third location (3.8 bushels). These results are consistent with those found in the large review of trials by Oplinger, which I further analyzed in my report on RR bean yields accessible on Ag BioTech InfoNet at In a few months, results will start appearing on 1999 soybean yield trails and we will see if progress has been made in narrowing the average yield drag evident in the 1998 varietal trials. I would be interested in "off-line" dialogue with anyone at land grant universities or allied research institutions who is carrying out comparable analyses of GMO versus conventional variety yields and performance, pesticide use, profitability, etc. I welcome suggestions re how to resolve methodological issues and carry out more accurate comparisons. It is a big job, perhaps we can make more progress through some coordination of effort. chuck Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 15:59:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19316 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:59:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11592 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:05:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11492 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:08:20 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.178] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AFE1966600B6; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:05:05 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:03:44 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Heinz - Hain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2874 American organic farmers might as well start looking for other buyers. "We will marry Heinz's great strength and sale in low-cost international procurement, manufacturing and logistics with Hain's talent and success in the marketing, sales and distribution to specialty food outlets," Heinz CEO William R. Johnson said. And there is at least one 'Panamanian-registry' type organic certification program out there who will (for the appropriate fee) be willing to help it happen. The liquidation of the market good-will associated with the word 'organic' has indeed begun in earnest. Farmers unable or unwilling to play along by furnishing commodities at rock-bottom low-ball prices will soon have no place in this segment of the market. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 16:19:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20137 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25123 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:32:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25093 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:30:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:30:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2875 Sanet: The following book looks like it would be very useful to vegetable growers. I add the standard disclaimer: "Mention of a product does not imply endorsement by the USDA or the University of Maryland." This press release and the Table of Contents can be viewed at http://www.nraes.org/publications/nraes104.html Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market 280 pages $42.00 NRAES-104 ISBN 0-935817-45-X Successful vegetable farmers do much more than produce vegetables; they also manage money, people, and natural resources effectively. A new book from NRAES, the Natural Resource, Agriculture, and Engineering Service, can broaden the knowledge and guide the planning of those who grow vegetables or are considering beginning a vegetable production business. Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market, NRAES-104 ($42.00 plus S&H/sales tax, 280 pages, August 1999), introduces the full range of processes for moderate-scale vegetable production using ecological practices that minimize the need for synthetic inputs and maximize stewardship of resources. The book includes in-depth profiles of 32 vegetable producers. Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market provides practical information on such essential matters as selecting a farm site; planning and record keeping; marketing options; and systems for starting, planting, protecting, and harvesting crops. The 280-page book is enhanced by 91 illustrations, 36 sidebars, and 20 tables. Individual chapters cover fundamental aspects of economic and environmental sustainability. Initial chapters address principles and practices essential to planning and launching a business: the practical implications of sustainability, getting started, farm business management, and marketing. The chapters that follow discuss essential production processes, focusing on soil fertility, composting, crop rotation, cover crops, tillage equipment and field preparation, seeds and transplants, irrigation and spraying systems, harvest and postharvest handling, season extension, integrated pest management, and environmentally friendly strategies for managing insects, diseases, weeds, and wildlife. A final chapter profiles the experiences of individual vegetable growers and provides their enterprise budgets for a number of crops. The grower profiles offer real-life examples of how farmers think about and deal with specific conditions. Appendixes include additional information resources, sources of supplies, a work sheet for developing vegetable enterprise budgets, vegetable crop nutrient recommendations, and useful conversions and calculations. A glossary and references are also included. Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market was written by Vernon P. Grubinger, vegetable and berry specialist for University of Vermont Extension and director of the University of Vermont Center for Sustainable Agriculture. Recommended for anyone concerned with the balance between crop production and stewardship of resources, Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market will be a valuable resource for aspiring and beginning vegetable growers, experienced growers, extension personnel, and serious gardeners, and a useful text for college-level vegetable production courses. Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market, NRAES-104, is priced at $42.00 per copy, plus shipping and handling and sales tax. The shipping and handling charge is $5.50 for a single copy within the continental United States. New York residents, add 8% sales tax (calculated on both the cost of the publication and shipping and handling charges. Click here for more information). If ordering more than one copy or if ordering from outside the U.S., please contact NRAES for shipping rates. Orders from outside the U.S. must be prepaid in U.S. funds. Major credit cards are accepted, and checks should be made payable to NRAES. For information about quantity discounts, or for a free publications catalog, contact NRAES by phone at (607) 255-7654, by fax at (607) 254-8770, or by e-mail at nraes@cornell.edu. Or visit our web site at www.nraes.org. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 16:53:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21040 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11984 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:10:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11951 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:09:09 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D01953A74@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Webb, Kevin" To: "'Bluestem Associates'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Heinz - Hain Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:09:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2876 Too true, so what then the solution? Focus on the local-- on WHO grows your food and also how it is grown. While there has always been a strong element of social justice inherent in the organic movement (IMO anyway), this seems to have been missed by many organic consumers. Food safety and environmental effects may be dealt with as well by Hain-Heinz scale/type of organic ag (I think they will be lacking there as well, but not to the same extent) as by small-scale producers, but issues pertaining to land ownership, consolidation, and economic viability of rural communties are the same for corporate organic ag as for they are for corporate industrial ag. Consumer education focusing on social justice in farming; labels and/or certification designating product origin; and development of local and regional infrastructure (processing kitchens, farmers markets, etc) will be the saviors. The issue of corporate domination in such fundamentally important areas of our culture as how we obtain our sustenance MUST be addressed. Building personal relationships between consumers and producers is paramount to creating mutual concern and understanding between two otherwise (seemingly) different groups. The CSA movement is a good example of the potential such relationships can create. In Japan, where CSA's have been operating for almost 30 years, the significance of such interactions is realized in the term for CSA, "teikei", which translates to "putting the farmers' face on food." Kevin Kevin Webb Food Circles Networking Project Department of Rural Sociology University of Missouri-Columbia 105 Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 (573) 882-3776 [573] 882=1473 (fax) webbk@missouri.edu -----Original Message----- From: Bluestem Associates [mailto:bluestem@webserf.net] Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:04 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Heinz - Hain American organic farmers might as well start looking for other buyers. "We will marry Heinz's great strength and sale in low-cost international procurement, manufacturing and logistics with Hain's talent and success in the marketing, sales and distribution to specialty food outlets," Heinz CEO William R. Johnson said. And there is at least one 'Panamanian-registry' type organic certification program out there who will (for the appropriate fee) be willing to help it happen. The liquidation of the market good-will associated with the word 'organic' has indeed begun in earnest. Farmers unable or unwilling to play along by furnishing commodities at rock-bottom low-ball prices will soon have no place in this segment of the market. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 19:59:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24942 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26247 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26186 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23310 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA29652 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:23:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:23:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Specialist Bee Gets an "A" for Pollinating Sunflowers (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2877 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:42:43 -0300 From: ARS News Service To: ARS News List Subject: Specialist Bee Gets an "A" for Pollinating Sunflowers STORY LEAD: Pollinating Sunflowers: Big Job Is a Good Fit for the Right Bee ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov September 27, 1999 ----------- When the job is pollinating crops, it might pay to bring in the specialists--especially those whose superior work habits offset the fact they're outnumbered 10 to one. An entomologist with the Agricultural Research Service has found that the sunflower leafcutting bee often does a better job pollinating sunflowers than the more common domesticated honey bee. In outdoor enclosures, one of the two kinds of sunflowers used in Vincent J. Tepedino's experiments produced larger and heavier seeds when pollinated by sunflower leafcutting bees. According to Tepedino, the sunflower leafcutting bees spread out evenly among the sunflowers rather than visiting just the plants nearest their nesting boxes. Tepedino is based at the ARS Bee Biology and Systematics Laboratory in Logan, Utah. The sunflower leafcutting bees, dark-brown to black insects about 3/4-inch to 1-inch long, are native to southern Canada and most of the United States. They are known to scientists as Megachile pugnata. The domesticated honey bee--originally from Europe--is Apis mellifera. For the test, Tepedino used four 100-by-20-foot screened enclosures, owned by Pioneer Hi-Bred International, Inc., at Woodland, Calif. Each cage contained approximately 600 sunflower plants. For about 2-1/2 weeks, about 100 sunflower bees in each of two cages performed pollination chores. Meanwhile, a few thousand domestic honey bees--about 10 times more than the sunflower leafcutting bees--performed the same task in two other cages. The test was the first using sunflower leafcutting bees to pollinate hybrid sunflowers in field cages. Earlier work by other ARS researchers at Logan scrutinized the bees in open fields. For details, see the story in the current issue of the ARS magazine, Agricultural Research, and on the World Wide Web at: http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/sep99/sunf0999.htm ARS is USDA's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contact: Vincent J. Tepedino, ARS Bee Biology and Systematics Laboratory, 5310 Old Main Hill, Logan, UT 84322; phone (435) 797-2559, fax (435) 797-0461, andrena@cc.usu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isjd@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 20:12:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25236 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:12:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01132 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:24:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01033 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17429 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d17-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.17]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA24475; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:12:06 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , Subject: RE: Depleted Forest Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:19:17 +1000 Message-ID: <000801bf093e$b80ac880$113325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37EF9E9E.513D2912@surfsouth.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2878 David asked: "If the forest are so depleted then why is the price for timber at nearly an all time low? Old growth forest that are gone will remain gone. Forest can be regenerated but the old is gone forever. What is the true story on forest resources? Lumber and timber prices are determined by supply and demand with not too much govt. regulation of prices. So what is the true story of supply???" David, I think this issue belongs in the same class of questions as "What is the most cost-effective way to deal with whales?" The answer to that question is "Catch them all, eat them and go catch something else". Same with trees. Dr Suess offered the best anecdotal account of Once-Ler economics in The Lorax. There are substantial plantation forest resources growing in many parts of the world, but the ecological problem arises from regarding old-growth forests as consisting of volumes of timber, and regarding plantation forests as equivalent to old forests. There is more to life than that, whole ecologies are more important than that, this ecological value may be demonstrable to some extent in macroeconomics, but not in terms of microeconomic values or on company books. The laws of supply and demand do not prevent firms competing to deplete a resource as swiftly as possible. Indeed, if you observe the approach of greedy children to a declining stock of popcorn, I think you have a pretty good analogy for the approach of timber merchants to declining timber stocks. Forests are also in decline in parts of the world because they have been choking. Any satellite map comparing 1970 with 1990 will show areas involved. Any number of documentaries about the area where Germany, Poland and the Czech Republic meet shows worst case versions of what is down the street. The state of forests is an index of the depravity [using that term in its full sense] of the species. Choose the plastic bag, not the paper bag. The plastic may be more renewable - see http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/tg21/ Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Sep 27 20:35:08 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25522 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16771 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:46:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16653 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04263; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10367; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:12:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.pointer X-Conference: panna.pointer From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Resource Pointer #221 To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 96 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2879 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Resource Pointer #221 September 27, 1999 For copies of the following resources, please contact the appropriate publishers or organizations directly. *Persistent Organic Pollutants (POPs): A Global Health Threat* Slide presentation prepared by Physicians for Social Responsibility. Educational and action-oriented slide presentation designed for physicians and health professionals as well as general audiences. Highlights urgency of phasing out 12 worst POPs. Appropriate for conferences, community meetings and classrooms. Can be custom-fit for specific time lengths and audiences. Slides come with speaker's manual and background materials. 64 slides for medical audience presentation, 45 for general audience. $50 medical audience, $25 general audience. Contact Physicians for Social Responsibility, 1101 14th Street NW, Suite 700, Washington, DC 20005; phone (202) 898- 0150; website http://www.psr.org *Successful, Safe, and Sustainable Alternatives to Persistent Organic Pollutants, 1999* World Wildlife Fund Issue Brief. Covers current uses of persistent organic pollutants (POPs); "pesticide treadmill"; integrated pest and vector management; and successful efforts to reduce reliance on POPs. Includes case studies on successes and challenges in eliminating POPs pesticides, PCBs, hexachlorobenzene, and dioxins/furans. Prepared in collaboration with PANNA. 20 pp. Free. Contact Toxics Program, World Wildlife Fund, 1250 24th St. NW, Washington, DC 20037; phone (202) 778-9606; fax (202) 530- 0743;email tina.skaar@wwfus.org; website http://www.worldwildlife.org *Hazards and Exposures Associated with DDT and Synthetic Pyrethroids Used for Vector Control, 1999* Summarizes current state of knowledge about health and environmental effects of DDT and synthetic pyrethroids. Provides overview of vector management programs using DDT and other insecticides. Covers reproductive, nervous, immune and carcinogenic effects plus routes of exposure. Recommends research priorities including low-dose testing and investigation of transgenerational effects. Argues that DDT should be characterized by World Health Organization (WHO) and international assistance agencies as a "pesticide of last resort." 46 pp. US$10. Contact Toxics Program, World Wildlife Fund, 1250 24th St. NW, Washington, DC 20037; phone (202) 778-9606; fax (202) 530- 0743;email tina.skaar@wwfus.org; website http://www.worldwildlife.org/toxics *Disease Vector Management for Public Health and Conservation, 1999* Patricia C. Matteson, ed. Volume of case studies prepared as background for Persistent Organic Pollutants (POPs) treaty negotiations. Focuses on ways to reduce DDT use for vector control. Chapters cover control of typanosomiasis, onchocerciasis and malaria. Malaria case studies include programs in India, Tanzania, the Philippines and Mexico. Introduction includes overview of integrated vector management (IVM) and toxicity of vector control pesticides. 230 pp. US$10. Contact Toxics Program, World Wildlife Fund, 1250 24th St. NW, Washington, DC 20037; phone (202) 778-9606; fax (202) 530-0743; email tina.skaar@wwfus.org; website http://www.worldwildlife.org *Persistent Organic Pollutants and Reproductive Health, 1999* Women in Europe for a Common Future. Background document prepared for International POPs Elimination Network (IPEN) Workshop on "Women, POPs, and Reproductive Health," September 1999. Focuses on human health effects of exposure to persistent organic pollutants (POPs) in Europe. Reviews basic information on POPs and reproductive health. Includes information on breast cancer, endometriosis and breast feeding. 27 pp. For price and ordering information, contact Women in Europe for a Common Future, P.O. Box 12111 3501 AC Utrecht, The Netherlands; phone (31 30) 2310300; fax (31 30) 2340878; email wecf@antenna.nl; website http://www.antenna.nl/wecf/ We encourage those interested in having resources listed in the PANUPS Resource Pointer to send review copies of publications, videos or other resources to our office. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Sep 27 21:14:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26003 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07681 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:21:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07664 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18192 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.163.80] (pm3shep2-163-80.intrepid.net [209.190.163.80]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28015 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:19:58 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:26:28 -0400 To: World Sustainable Agriculture Association From: Allan Balliett Subject: "Seeds of Change" founder Howard Shapiro to Speak at Biodynamic Conference Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2880 :s!): subscribe bdnow If you have any questions, contact the list master at bdnow@igg.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 10:40:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06840 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23218 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:51:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mb05.swip.net (mb05.swip.net [193.12.122.209]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23063 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:51:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d212-151-163-163.swipnet.se (d212-151-239-122.swipnet.se [212.151.239.122]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA00684; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:43:43 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by d212-151-163-163.swipnet.se with Microsoft Mail id <01BF09C0.0FF8D600@d212-151-163-163.swipnet.se>; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:45:09 +0200 Message-ID: <01BF09C0.0FF8D600@d212-151-163-163.swipnet.se> From: Jacky Foo To: "'et-conf'" , "'IBSnet News Exchange et-w3'" , "'list MIFFS Michigan Integrated Food & Farming Systems'" , "'sanet-mg List'" , "'list DEVEL-L'" , "'infoterra list'" Subject: Livestock in Mountain/Highland Production Systems (5 Oct.-15 Nov 99) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:01:14 +0200 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2881 Title: Electronic Conference on Livestock in Mountain / Highland Production systems: Research and Development Challenges into the Next Millennium. Date: 5 October to 15 November 1999. Contact: Gueye, Fallou (AGAP) [Fallou.Gueye@fao.org] Organizers: Juhani Maki-Hokkonen, FAO - AGA, E-mail: Juhani.MakiHokkonen@fao.org Mohamed Saleem, ILRI - Ethiopia, E-mail: m.saleem@cgiar.org Roberto Quiroz/Mario Tapia, GMP-CIP, E-mail: r.quiroz@cgiar.org Tej Partap/Pradeep Tulachan, ICIMOD-MFS, E-mail: tej@menris1.icimod.org.np Registration: e-mail MAILSERV@MAILSERV.FAO.ORG and send the message : SUBSCRIBE HIGHLANDS-L Papers and/or discussion topics will be released at approximately weekly intervals and discussion on each will be circulated. The list will be moderated by the organisers. Poster papers (1-2 pages long) are welcomed and to be submitted in MS Word or another word processor format. They can be traditional (introduction, method, results and conclusions) or simply a description of your experiences whatever they are). Tables and graphics and photos may be included, but should be kept to a minimum. Please use the minimum of page formatting. That is, use standard fonts and margins and do not reset margins, tabs, etc. within the paper. Portrait page format only, no headers, footers, footnotes etc. ----------- to receive future announcements of E-conferences, seminars, workshops, etc. join the mailing list ET-CONF. E-mail listserv@segate.sunet.se and use the subscription command: SUB ET-CONF yourfirstname yourlastname or join via http://segate.sunet.se/archives/et-conf.html which also stores an archive of earlier announcements. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 10:48:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06991 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17710 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:53:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web603.mail.yahoo.com (web603.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.167]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17694 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19990928135226.5742.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web603.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:52:26 PDT Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:52:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: fyi: scofflaw To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2882 Good Morning SANET, I missed the original post on this but the background reference material is compelling...kate A few weeks ago, the Focus on the Corporation column was titled "A Law and Order Regulation for Corporations." The subject was a proposal to prevent the U.S. government from entering into contracts with companies that are chronic or serious violators of labor, environmental, tax, antitrust or employment laws. This note is a follow up to that column. For more details, see the Essential Action web page, http://www.essentialaction.org/anti-scofflaw. The federal government is now accepting comments on the proposed regulation. Business groups are weighing in heavily against it; and so if the proposal is to be enacted, it is vital that citizens and public interest groups submit comments in support of the regulation. It is easy to submit comments -- even a comment that says nothing more than, "I support the principle that the federal government should not contract with companies that seriously transgress the law" is valuable, and comments can be submitted by e-mail (as well as regular mail). For background on the proposed regulation, and tips on what to say in comments, see the Essential Action web page, http://www.essentialaction.org/anti-scofflaw. You can e-mail comments directly to the agency from this page. If you are so eager to send comments that you don't even want to check the page, you can send them by e-mail to farcase.99-010@gsa.gov or by regular mail to: General Services Administration FAR Secretariat (MVR) 1800 F Street, NW, Room 4035 ATTN: Laurie Duarte Washington, D.C. 20045 Be sure to mention in all written comments that you are commenting in reference to FAR case 99-010. ** Please pass this note on to friends, colleagues and relevant listserves. ** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 11:46:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08145 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:46:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19041 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:08:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.umext.maine.edu (mail.umext.maine.edu [130.111.109.92]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19023 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tgriffin (tgriffin.umepsw.maine.edu [130.111.60.236]) by mail.umext.maine.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id TNLAWL60; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:02:46 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:08:17 -0400 Message-ID: <01BF09A1.C41BBCC0.tgriffin@umext.maine.edu> From: Tim Griffin Reply-To: "tgriffin@umext.maine.edu" To: "'sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'sandyv@umext.maine.edu'" Subject: POSITION: Integrated Farms Educator/Project Coordinator in Maine Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:08:16 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2883 > > Position Announcement > Position #61: Integrated Farm Educator and Project Coordinator > > The University of Maine Cooperative Extension seeks an Integrated Farm > Educator and Project Coordinator. This project has received funding > through September 2001. This is a 1-year, fixed-length, faculty > position with renewal for an additional 1-year term contingent upon > job performance. Position to be housed at Highmoor Farm in Monmouth, > Maine. This position is funded through an EPA Grant to Coastal > Enterprises Inc. entitled "Working Landscapes-Sustainable Farms > Building a Sustainable Community". This faculty position will work > with other educators and specialists to provide technical assistance > to agricultural producers in the Kennebec River Valley interested in > integrated farm systems. This person will have responsibility for > providing educational opportunities and coordination among > participating farms, and for providing technical assistance to > producers in the areas of grain production and manure/nutrient > management. This person will also provide staff support to the grant > steering committee. Qualifications: Required: Masters degree with at > least one degree in agronomy or production agriculture; training > and/or experience in production agriculture, including grain systems; > and in grain production and nutrient management; computer proficiency; > excellent verbal and written communication, and interpersonal skills; > demonstrated self-motivation and ability to achieve measurable > results; proven ability to work independently as well as part of a > team, and to work effectively with employees, employers and > constituents of the community; demonstrated commitment to serving > diverse audiences and supporting civil rights, equal opportunity and > affirmative action policies; strong facilitation skills and experience > in building collaborative working relationships with diverse groups; > demonstrated ability and willingness to obtain a valid Maine Pesticide > Applicator's license and Maine Nutrient Management Commercial > certification within three months from start date; ability to travel, > both in and out of state, usually requiring a valid driver's license, > and a flexible work schedule with some evening and occasional weekend > work. Driving and baseline background check required. Preferred: > some experience in Extension educational processes; working knowledge > of educational technology, including computer and audiovisual teaching > tools; familiarity with farm production equipment, including grain > harvesting and processing equipment; some experience in the principles > of animal nutrition and husbandry. Salary is commensurate with > training, experience and demonstrated ability. Review of Application > begins October 30, 1999. To apply, send a letter of application, > vitae, all transcripts and four letters of reference tailored to fit > this position to: Sandy Vaillancourt, 5741 Libby Hall, Rm. 103, Orono > ME 04469-5741; email sandyv@umext.maine.edu; Tel. (207) 581-3191 or > Fax (207) 581-3325. The committee will review only complete packets > that are the responsibility of the applicant to provide. For more > information concerning the position and the project "Working > Landscapes", please contact Rick Kersbergen at 207-342-5971 > (richardk@umext.maine.edu) or John Piotti (piotti@uninets.net) at the > Maine Farms Project at 207-948-3335. For a full job description call > (207) 581-3191. > > The University of Maine is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity > Employer. > > > > > > Sandy Vaillancourt > Administrative Assistant > 5741 Libby Hall, Room 103 > Orono, ME 04469-5741 > Telephone (207)581-3191 > Fax (207)581-3325 > e-mail sandyv@umext.maine.edu Tim Griffin Extension Sustainable Ag Specialist University of Maine Cooperative Extension To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 12:02:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08481 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28333 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:25:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28293 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA05323 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990928112953.007f62b0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:29:53 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2884 (NEWS) USDA urged to support GM crop segregation The U.S. government should actively support industry efforts to segregate genetically modified (GM) crops to diffuse consumer opposition in Europe, the head of a Dutch grain trade group said. Once consumers face sharply higher prices for foods without GM inputs, most are likely to opt for foods not specified as GM free, said Rudolf Hoeffelman, chairman of the Royal Dutch Grain and Feed Trade Association. Hoeffelman, former president of the Benelux division of U.S. agribusiness giant Cargill, said he recently told U.S. Ambassador to the Netherlands Cynthia Schneider that current U.S. policy on GM foods was not working. ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. Check out our web site!!! www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 12:35:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09154 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10704 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10662 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08189 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id LAA20650 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:48:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:48:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Monsanto & India (fwd) American Spectator Magazine needs information Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2885 Can anyone help out with this? Thanks, Lawrence ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:09:59 -0500 From: Kenneth R. Timmerman To: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: Re: Monsanto & India Dear Lawrence London, I saw your recent post on Monsanto and India. I am a reporter with The American Spectator magazine in the US, and I'm doing a story that touches on Monsanto's problems in India (which they company strenuously denies). Could you point me to any supporting documentation, or forward me relevant news clips, which lay out some of the accusations in your post? What (who?) is the Monsanto Quit India campaign? Did their public meeting in front of the Monsanto seed plant take place? Have their been other instances where Indian farmers have attacked Monsanto facilities in India? Are you aware of any intervention by the Indian government to protect Monsanto? (I am specifically looking into allegations that Monsanto bribed Indian officials. If you have any details on that, I'd be very interested). I am on a rather tight deadline - next 24 hours or so. So any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and regards Kenneth R. timmerman <><> Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 12:53:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09432 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24374 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:17:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24323 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:17:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Erorganic@aol.com Received: from Erorganic@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7BYFjS_fi_ (4183) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:14:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c998a52.2522437c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:14:52 EDT Subject: Re: GMO questions To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2886 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:07:21 -0400 From: karenm@vt.edu Subject:GMO questions I'm trying to write an article for our bimonthly newsletter. The article will discuss GMOs for Joe Consumer who doesn't know what he's getting in his food or what the potential environmental impacts might be. I've done a lot of reading and talking to people here at Va. Tech, but I'm left with some questions that haven't been resolved. I really need scientifically based answers, not "gut reactions," and citations, please. 1. Some GMO's could have been produced by conventional breeding practices, but genetic engineering has speeded up the process. Is this a true statement? Can you give me examples? If it is true, do these plants/animals have the same problems associated with them as GMO's that have bacteria, viruses, or genes from other species inserted into them? Eric: The general methods of genetic modification in farm crops other than "cut and splice" I am aware of include using radiation, colchicine and other chemicals. For instance, "Regal" Ladino clover is a selected combination of 6 strains that were modified through radiation by Auburn University and released in early 1960s. The rootstocks for virtually all plums trees produced in California are genetic modifications resistant to a specific disease problem. Many of the large colored peppers were developed using colchicine to double the chromosomes. Each of these genetic modifications however, does not included cross species transfer of genes. To my knowledge outside the mule, for which we get a superior, but sterile animal and perhaps a few other aberrations in nature there such cross species movements do not take place. Conclusion: all genetic modifications can not be defined as the same, dictating we categorize "cut and splice" methods in a different light. In food additives, processing aids and actual ingredients in processed foods there is a wealth of investigation needed. Perhaps Steve Taylor at University of Nebraska could offer directions to understanding what genetically modified substances or derivatives of genetically modification are presently being used in the food processing industry. For instance, how much vitamin C is derived from genetically modified bacteria. 2. The literature says GMO's will reduce pesticide usage. However, if a farmer can spray roundup over an emerged crop and the crop isn't effected, won't he be likely to use more pesticide rather than less? I do understand that Bt crops can result in lower pesticide usage. Eric: The question is answered by locating farmers using such products and getting honest answers on use. In visiting such farmers near me, I found they actually use more pesticide and expect more from the pesticide. Just being lazy going organic can result in lower pesticide use. Thanks for your help. Karen Mundy Communications Coordinator Rural Economic Analysis Program Department of Agricultural and Applied Economics (0401) Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-9443 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 13:02:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09691 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00679 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:24:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00650 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA08216; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990928122910.008054c0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:29:10 -0400 To: "Pat Elazar" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Re: (NEWS) USDA urged to support GM crop segregation In-Reply-To: <99Sep28.112940cdt.26887@mint.cwb.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2887 At 11:18 AM 9/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >do you have a reference or source for this article? It was sent to me by the listserv at eHarvest.com. The full article is at: http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990921/1p.html Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. Check out our web site!!! www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 13:58:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11070 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18852 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:10:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18811 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:09:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: ERS reports on farm structure, America's food choices, and th e 1999 drought Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:08:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2888 -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Olson Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 11:24 AM To: Reference and User Services Branch Cc: Information Centers Branch Subject: RE: New-at-ERS FYI... Economic Assessment of the 1999 Drought: Agricultural Impacts Are Locally Severe, But Limited Nationally. Food Review, vol. 22, No.1 The theme of this issue is "Food Away From Home: America's Changing Food Choices." Farm Structure Briefing Room To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 14:02:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11171 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25154 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:17:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25138 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:17:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16796; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:16:56 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: NYC pesticide spraying Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2889 Howdy, all-- I don't know why *anything* Rudy Giuliani does or says still has the power to leave me shaking my head and dumbfounded, but here's another example. NYC's mayor is quoted, here by AP writer Jim Fitzgerald in a 9/22 wire story about the pesticide spraying in NYC: >Officials planned to spray both locations with insecticides >Thursday. > >In New York, the pesticide malathion has been used. >Mayor Rudolph Giuliani defended that choice Tuesday >after Westchester officials said they would use a less >toxic substance known as Anvil. > >``I think this is more a reaction to public relations than it >is science,'' Giuliani said. ``Both substances are safe. >There may be certain applications of one that are better >than the other, but both are equally safe.'' > >Westchester's spraying will be done by helicopter over > the southern third of the county, which includes the cities >of Yonkers, Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, Port Chester >and most of White Plains. > >Spraying in Connecticut will be conducted by truck, using >resmithrin. Note that Rudy points out it's those OTHER people who are falling victim to PR, in telling everyone that an organophosphate pesticide is safe. And note that he seems to assume that science and PR are two separate and opposite realms. And note he has had nothing to say, throughout this entire issue, about how he eviscerated public health budgets, including mosquito and rat control. I have a question. How come the sustainable ag community isn't coming out loudly and in full force in opposition to this spraying and in support of the urban people exposed to this spraying, huh? We know more from an action, policy, and research perspective about these issues than possibly anyone else--besides the environmental justice folks. It isn't like we live on a separate planet. By the way, the encephalitis outbreak has turned out to be the West Nile strain, not the St. Louis strain. West Nile encephalitis has never before been reported in the Western Hemisphere. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wash your hands after using any pesticide product. --Dow Elanco To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 14:40:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11897 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:40:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08033 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:47:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08018 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:47:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-49.csj.net [12.29.22.49]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA02660 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:47:22 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "sanet-mg@ces. ncsu. edu (E-mail)" Subject: RE: NYC pesticide spraying Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:47:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf09d9$8368cd20$c427fea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2890 And the EEE diagnosis in Texas horses is being challenged by a top virologist. I am questioning how a EEE diagnosis in emus can be a hemorrhagic dysentery supposedly transmissible by fecal-oral (muddy puddles) routes when there does not appear to be fecal-oral transmission in other species, and for that matter, have they challenged other species in this fashion. No good answers have been forthcoming, nor do I expect they will be. Donna Fezler GCR Jacksonville, IL http://www.rhealiving.com By the way, the encephalitis outbreak has turned out to be the West Nile strain, not the St. Louis strain. West Nile encephalitis has never before been reported in the Western Hemisphere. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wash your hands after using any pesticide product. --Dow Elanco To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 14:47:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11988 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18618 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:06:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from Server1.wclynx.com (server1.wclynx.com [207.44.186.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18524 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wclynx.com ([209.249.70.139]) by Server1.wclynx.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-44039U5000L500S0) with ESMTP id AAA181 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:05:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37F1027B.854AA124@wclynx.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:01:31 -0700 From: Diane Cooner X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Mites on Chickens Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2891 Hello Saneteers; I have a chicken that is starting to lose her feathers. I am told it may be mites.What can I do to remedy this? Thanks in advance, diane in hot northern california To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 15:28:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12991 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25512 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:28:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25485 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:27:01 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'nrboone@roadrunner.com'" Subject: RE: Brown rot and SARE database of projects Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:27:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2892 Nathan and SANet: I started to answer the question about brown rot in peaches and ended up generating a *how-to* use the SARE database and get more information about SARE projects. Oh, well, I needed to do this anyway :) Here's what I address in this somewhat long e-mail: * The SARE database of funded projects on the web; * The AGRICOLA database of literature, from the National Agricultural Library; * Searching strategies for SARE and AGRICOLA; * How to get more information about SARE projects; * Literature searching if you are applying for a SARE grant; The SARE database of funded projects lists all projects funded since 1988. Most include a summary and results, and all include contact information for either the principal investigator, or for the SARE regional office where you can request more information. Note that the most recent projects do not yet have summary information since we wait for the first annual report to add it. SARE has funded two projects that included an objective on brown rot. I have excerpted from the database and pasted them near the end of this message. I found them in the SARE database of funded projects (1,322 of them at http://www.sare.org/san/projects/) by using the search terms: brown and rot and peach (you must include the *and*) Note that if I say: brown and rot and peaches, I get only one hit, while brown and rot and peach* gets both hits again. If I search for: brown or rot or peach, I get 415 hits... Now I'm wondering what all of them are. When I've pulled up a document in a search on the web, I use the FIND function to get right to the word I'm looking for. See http://www.sare.org/san/projects/search.html#HOW for searching tips. Another use of the asterisk (*) is by itself in the search term box to bring up all projects. That's what I did to see that there are 1,322 projects in the database as of today. So what do you do once you've found a SARE project in the database on the web, read all the information available there, and are still hungry for more information? Several options: 1) Contact the PI or other contact person listed at the bottom of the project report on the web (see examples below with the peach rot search). 2) Contact the SARE region that funded the project. The SARE regions are imbedded in the project number, and we have told the database search engine to extract and print the region along with the project titles. Contact information for SARE regions can be found at http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/sare/contacts.html or there is a shortcut from the SAN home page http://www.sare.org/. The four regional web sites are also linked from our home page. 3) Contact the National Agricultural Library (NAL) for a copy of annual and/or final project reports. Many--but not all--project reports have been submitted to NAL and are indexed in AGRICOLA. You can borrow these project reports, either in hard copy or sometimes on diskette. (FYI: Farmer/rancher project reports are NOT submitted to NAL.) In general, individuals are supposed to go through inter-library loan to get materials from NAL. That means going to any library and saying you want the project report. Tell your librarian that NAL is the only place to get them. Be sure to include the SARE PROJECT NUMBER and the NAL CALL NUMBER, as well as project title, author, etc. See http://www.nal.usda.gov/ddsb/ for information about borrowing from the National Agricultural Library. You can search AGRICOLA to find SARE reports that have been submitted and a) have cleared through the NAL system; b) been added to AGRICOLA and c) been updated in whatever version of AGRICOLA you are using. You can search AGRICOLA on the web at http://www.nal.usda.gov/ or go directly to http://www.nal.usda.gov/ag98/. On the web, if you use the ADVANCED KEYWORD SEARCH and type NT=SARE you get 356 hits. (NT is the note field in AGRICOLA). IF YOU have access to AGRICOLA on a CD-ROM (like at your university library) it is MUCH easier to search than the web version! By searching for: SARE in NT or SARE in SO (that means, SARE in the note field or in the source field), you can find all SARE projects in the library (currently 349, includes a couple of bad hits). Add another specific search term (and peach*) to narrow your search. Incidentally, there are 148 documents indexed in AGRICOLA that fit the search: brown and rot and peach* I'd be glad to send those 148 hits to Nathan via e-mail. Presumably they are not all *sustainable* approaches to the problem. NOTE: Your results may differ from mine. I am fortunate to have AGRICOLA on my LAN (network) since it is produced here at NAL. It is the most up-to-date version, and I can search all of the CDs at once, whereas in a library, you may need to do the same search on several different CDs. Here's what the hit on the SARE brown rot in peaches project from AGRICOLA (networked) looks like: AN: IND 21242876 UD: 9808 AU: Shearer,-P.W. TI: Peach orchard ground cover management to reduce antropod damage. SO: Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education SARE research projects Northeast Region. [1988-. 1997. 9 p. CN: DNAL S441.S855 PA: USDA PY: 1997 LA: English NT: SARE Project Number: LNE96-74. Record includes floppy disk. Reporting period for this report is September 1996 to December 1997. PT: Article SF: IND DE: prunus-. orchards-. ground-cover. crop-management. crop-damage. plant-parasitic-nematodes. plant-diseases. integrated-control. new-jersey. CC: F100; F822; F830 AN: IND 20439723 UD: 9500 Here's what you get from the SARE database: A Multidisciplinary Approach to Evaluate and Aid the Transition From Conventional to Low-Input Pest Management Systems in Stone Fruits Project number: LW91-028 Project coordinator: Kent Daane Year: 1991 State(s): CA Good progress was made towards a more sustainable approach to brown rot (the major fruit disease of peach) management. Three tools have shown promise: maintenance of moderately low tree nitrogen level, addition of organic composts to the soil and cleaning up of diseased, mummified fruits in the trees. Additionally, we observed a negative correlation between a yeast on the fruit and levels of brown rot. Methods of manipulating this yeast will be studied in greater detail in the future. In addition to less fruit disease, the application of compost to the soil has also shown a tendency towards better fruit quality and less fruit damage from insects. For more information about this project, contact the principal investigator at: Kent Daane Division of Biological Control UCB Kearney Agricultural Center UCB Kearney Agricultural Center Parlier CA, 93648 Phone: 209-891-2500 A second project from the SARE database: Peach Orchard Ground Cover Management to Reduce Arthropod Damage Project number: LNE96-074 Project coordinator: Peter Shearer Year: 1996 State(s): NJ Methods and Results Results of this study clearly demonstrate that peach growers participating in this project had three times less damage caused by tarnished plant bug feeding in orchard blocks with managed sod ground covers compared with fruit grown with weedy ground covers or disked orchard floors. Tarnished plant bug levels were also lower in ground covers where herbicides were used to remove broad leaf weeds and alternate host plants of this pest. This project found that certain peach diseases including brown rot, cytospora canker, and bacterial spot were not influenced by different ground cover management practices. For more information about this project, contact the principal investigator at: Peter Shearer Rutgers University 121 Northville Road Bridgeton NJ, 08302 Phone: 609-455-3100 THE SEARCHES IN AGRICOLA AND THE SARE DATABASE ARE NOT THE SAME! One of the SARE project reports is not in NAL, or is in the bowels of the building getting processed. Also, sometimes the project report comes in with a different title than the title of the funded proposal. Before we noticed that this was happening, some titles got cast in stone in AGRICOLA. Use the SARE project number whenever possible. Finally, IF YOU ARE APPLYING FOR A SARE GRANT, the Alternative Farming Systems Information Center (AFSIC) will conduct a literature review for you and send the resulting bibliography. The reference specialist at AFSIC can do a much more targeted search than what I am capable of fumbling through! AFSIC is funded in part by SARE and is also located at the National Agricultural Library (the SAN office is co-located with the AFSIC office). Contact afsic@nal.usda.gov if you need a lit review done for your SARE grant. Please don't all fill the inbox now, and be sure to give several weeks lead time for an individualized search! See also http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/ to view MANY great bibliographies already done! I've done enough damage today. Hope this has helped rather than, and check out the SARE database of projects at http://www.sare.org/san/projects/. Try some searches in your favorite sustainable agriculture topic area. See what you find! Andy Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 16:23:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14505 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26797 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:24:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26771 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:23:32 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D01953A84@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Webb, Kevin" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Dan Hook'" Subject: RE: old growth forest--FW: Mid-September Heartwood Action Alerts Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:23:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA26780 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2893 If you're curious for more information on the state of forests in North America, Heartwood is an excellent source. Here is a copy of their recent e-mail action alert. Info on how to sign-up is included. Kevin Webb Food Circles Networking Project Department of Rural Sociology University of Missouri-Columbia 105 Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 (573) 882-3776 [573] 882=1473 (fax) webbk@missouri.edu -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Webb [mailto:worldwidewebb01@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 10:56 AM To: webbk@missouri.edu Subject: Fwd: Mid-September Heartwood Action Alerts --- "Devin M. Scherubel" wrote: > Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:47:49 -0400 > To: info@heartwood.org > From: "Devin M. Scherubel" > Subject: Mid-September Heartwood Action Alerts > > Heartwood Action Alerts -- Mid-September, 1999 > > --- Protecting and Restoring the Native Forests of > the Midwest and > Appalachia --- > > Please redistribute widely. > > This issue: > > 1. Help stop the tragedy of Mountain Top Removal > Coal Mining > 2. Cherokee National Forest Alert > 3. Stop Crucial Anti-Environmental Riders! > 4. Demand Full Citizen Participation in Wisconsin FS > Decisions > 5. Oppose Forest Products Trade Liberalization > 6. Comment to USFWS to Protect Lynx > 7. Hoosier NF Planning Begun > > To unsubscribe from this action alert list, change > your email address, > or add a friend, send email to Devin at > devin@heartwood.org > > More information, sample letters and more frequent > updates, are available > through the Heartwood Web Site, > http://www.heartwood.org/ > > PLEASE: SUBMIT ACTION ALERT ITEMS FROM YOUR > FOREST!!! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 1. Help stop the tragedy of Mountain Top Removal > Coal Mining > > In West Virginia, we have already lost 300,000 acres > of our hardwood > forests and 1,000 miles of headwater streams to > mountaintop removal. Our > children and grandchildren deserve better than this > tragic legacy from the > coal industry. > > WRITE TO JUDGE HADEN! > > Judge Haden wants citizen comments before he allows > a "consent decree" > approving a massive mountaintop removal/valley fill > project in WV to > proceed. The 45-day comment-period ends Sept.30 . > The judge has promised to > read all citizen letters before he rules on the > issue. Your voice WILL be > heard! > > For background information on Mountain Top Removal > Mining, please see > http://www.ohvec.org/Mountains02.htm > > Please write from your heart. Your comments do not > need to be technical. > The judge wants to know specific ways mountaintop > removal hurts you, > offends you or threatens your future well-being. > Even if you do not live in > a community directly impacted by mountaintop > removal, you can still be hurt > by this devastating practice. The following are > examples: > > If you grieve the loss of streams, forests, > communities, Appalachian > mountain heritage, and wildlife habitat. > > If you fear the negative effects on the state's > drinking water. > > If you feel sick when you see the giant drag > lines ripping down the > mountains and dumping them into the adjacent > valleys. > > A short, personal letter in your own words is fine. > Our specific concerns > about the consent decree are: > > 1-The consent decree leaves much to the discretion > of the Division for > Environmental Protection (DEP). WV DEP has > repeatedly shown themselves to > be more concerned with shielding coal companies than > serving the public > interest. The WV DEP is currently under the > direction of another coal > industry advocate. > > 2-The consent decree allows coal companies to > justify mountaintop removal > with post-mined land uses of commercial woodlands > and homesteading. Even if > implementation were possible, these provisions > cannot replace the permanent > loss of headwater streams, diverse Appalachian > hardwood forests, and > close-knit mountain community life. > > 3-The consent decree does not assure that large > scale mountaintop removal > will be adequately scaled back. The approximate > original contour provisions > require that more earth be put back on top of the > mined area but set no > limits on the depth of the cuts into the mountains > (often over 600 ft), or > length of streams that can be filled. > > It would be especially good to write and tell the > judge how you feel about > the destruction to watersheds. The judge will soon > be ruling on the stream > buffer zone, which is not addressed in the consent > decree. He needs to know > your feelings about burying streams with former > mountains. A strong ruling > in our favor on the buffer zone issue will limit > industry's ability to > indiscriminately trash valuable headwater streams > and thereby limit the > size of mining operations themselves. > > Please write today and encourage a friend to do the > same. Send letters by > September 30th to: > > Honorable Judge Charles C. Haden, II > Clerk; United States District Court > P.O. Box 3924 > Charleston, WV 25339 > > For more information, please call: > OVEC at 304-522-0246 > Or > Cindy Rank, WV Highlands Conservancy Mining Chair at > 304-924-5801 (h), 304-924-6263 (w) > > The consent decree can be found online at: > www.fedcourtwvsd.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > 2. Cherokee National Forest Alert > > The Center for Appalachian Trail Studies is > sponsoring an online > letter-writing campaign to encourage Congress to > budget funding for the > purchase of the Gulf Tract in Cocke County, > Tennessee, in the Fiscal Year > 2000 budget. This 6,800 acre tract of land, which is > bordered for six miles > by the Appalachian Trail, is in danger of being > developed for recreational > home use. The Forest Service is negotiating to buy > the land for inclusion > as part of Cherokee National Forest, but needs > funding from Congress. > > We need you to write a letter urging Congress to > budget money for the > purchase of the Gulf Tract. > > Using our on-line letter-writing section, interested > individuals can write > a letter in their own words and transmit it > automatically to key members of > the Senate and House Appropriations Committees, and > they will also receive > a copy of their comments with addresses and > instructions for sending them > by regular mail to key House members who do not have > e-mail available for > public access. > > The Gulf Tract letter-writing section is online at: > http://trailplace.com/gulf/gulf_index.html > > Thank you for your help. > > Dan "Wingfoot" Bruce > Center for Appalachian Trail Studies > Hot Springs, NC 28743 > 828-622-7601 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 3. Stop Crucial Anti-Environmental Riders! > > It is not to late for the Senate to remove all > anti-environmental > riders from the Interior Appropriations bill (SB > 1292). This Monday, Sept. > 20 has been declared national call-in day. Please > call your senators and > ask them to vote "no" on this bill until these > riders are removed. The > senate main phone # Is (1-202-224-3121) or go to > http://www.senate.gov to > find your senators. > > Two riders in particular have been identified by > Heartwood activists: > > Lead Mine Rider > Senator Bond from Missouri snuck in an amendment to > the Senate > version of the Interior Appropriations bill (SB > 1292) which takes away the > ability of the Secretary of Interior to protect the > recharge area of Big > Spring, including the nationally recognized wild & > scenic Eleven Point and > Current rivers, from Lead Mining. Lead Mining fills > entire valleys with > crushed waste rock slurry, which still contains > hazardous levels of lead, > cadmium and other heavy metals. Every watershed in > this region looses water > to the underground system of caves and springs, > endangering drinking water > as well as scenic treasures. > Bond's amendment does not appear on the House > version of this bill, > and a conference committee must now decide its fate. > Please join Missouri's > environmental community, the state's attorney > general and governor and > encourage the committee members (especially those > from your state -- see > list below) to remove this amendment from the final > version of the bill. > > Species Survey Rider > Section 329 would allow the U.S. Forest Service and > the > Bureau of Land Management to bypass sensitive > species survey > requirements before making management decisions on > timber sales. This > rider has new urgency because of two recent court > decisions that > ordered the Forest Service to postpone 34 timber > sales in the Pacific > Northwest for failure to do these surveys. The > temporary injunctions > have virtually shut down logging on public lands in > spotted owl habitat > and the timber industry gave stopping this amendment > top priority. > > Joint Senate/House Committee on the Interior > Appropriations bill > > Senators: > Gorton(r) WA phone 202-224-3441 fax 202-224-9393 > Byrd(D) WV 202-224-3954 202-228-0002 > Stevens(r) AK 202-224-3004 202-224-2354 > Leahy(D) VT 202-224-4242 no public fax > Cochran(r) MS 202-224-5024 202-224-9450 > Hollings(D) SC 202-224-6121 202-224-4293 > Domenici(r) NM 202-224-6621 202-224-7371 > Reid(D) NV 202-224-3542 202-224-7327 > Burns(r) MT 202-224-2644 202-224-8594 > Dorgan(D) ND 202-224-2511 202-224-1193 > Bennett(r) UT 202-224-5444 no public fax > Kohl(D) WI 202-224-5653 202-224-9787 > Gregg(r) NH 202-224-3324 202-224-4952 > Feinstein(D) CA 202-224-3841 202-228-3954 > Campbell(r) CO 202-224-5852 202-224-1933 > > House Reps: > Regula(r) OH phone202-225-3876 202-225-3059 > Dicks(D) WA 202-225-5916 202-226-1176 > Kolbe(r) AZ 202-225-2542 202-225-0378 > Murtha(D) PA 202-225-2065 202-225-5709 > Skeen(r) NM 202-225-2365 202-225-9599 > Moran(D) VA 202-225-4376 202-225-0017 > Taylor(r) NC 202-225-6401 no public fax > Cramer(D) AL 202-225-4801 202-225-4392 > Nethercutt(r) WA 202-225-2006 202-225-3392 > Hinchey(D) NY 202-225-6335 202-226-0774 > Wamp(r) TN 202-225-3271 202-225-3494 > Kingston(r) GA 202-225-5831 202-226-2269 > Peterson(r) PA 202-225-5121 202-225-5796 > > In addition, please call the White House > Chief of Staff John Podesta (1-202-456-6798) and > urge the President to > take a strong stand against anti-environmental > riders. Clinton must > send a clear message to Congress and especially > Senate conferees that > he will veto this rider riddled appropriations bill! > -------------------------------------- > 4. Demand Full Citizen Participation in Wisconsin > FS Decisions > > Please email Supervisor Roberts (Lynn Roberts > Lynn.Roberts/r9_cheni@fs.fed.us) of the > Chequamegon-Nicolet National Forest > in Wisconsin and ask him NOT to authorize or allow > staff to promote or > expedite so-called "salvage" timber sales and/or to > shorten normal > environmental review and public input processes in > connection with alleged > 'damage' or 'fire hazards' caused by the July 4th > and 30th storms. > > Of concerned is the ecologically myopic hyperbole > reportedly used by some > CNNF staff in characterizing the storms' effects as > "catastrophic" and > "devastating." This is ironic since the amount of > downed trees is only > about half of what the CNNF allows to be logged and > removed from the > forest on average each year. > > For more information, please contact Richard Spotts, > Director Green Onion > Resource Center 719 Orchard Lane Ashland, WI 54806 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > 5. Oppose Forest Products Trade Liberalization > > For more info on the impacts of free trade on > forests, see: > http://www.earthjustice.org/work/intl_index.html > > Friends: Please add your name to this European > statement opposing forest > products trade liberalization at the WTO by > e-mailing Saskia Ozinga at FERN > before September 30th. > Thanks! > > NGO STATEMENT OF OPPOSITION TO THE PROPOSED > LIBERALIZATION OF THE > FOREST PRODUCTS SECTOR May 1999 > > We, the undersigned non-governmental organizations > representing citizens > concerned about environment and development, oppose > the proposal by the US > and other members of APEC to create a 'free trade > agreement' for forest > products. We condemn the proposal because, if > implemented, we fear it will > lead to increased logging and consumption of > ecologically and socially > valuable forests around the globe. We also condemn > the proposal because of > the undemocratic and ecologically irresponsible > manner in which it is being > developed. We are deeply worried about the > proposal's content: the > intention is to eliminate tariffs on wood products. > This could stimulate > increased production and consumption. Another > potential agenda item could > be the elimination of non-tariff measures (NTMs) > which may make it > impossible to maintain environmental safeguards such > as third-party > certification and eco-labelling, strong > phytosanitary controls on imports > of wood products that carry exotic pests and > pathogens, and regulations to > promote local industries. > > We call on the members of the WTO to refrain from > negotiating a forest > products agreement until an independent assessment > has been made of the > social and environment impacts of trade > liberalization on forests and > forest people, and effective steps have been taken > to mitigate those > impacts on, and avoid future harm to, forest > ecosystems and peoples. We > call on the CSD to fulfil its commitment of > developing a framework for > assessing environmental and social impacts of trade > policies and agreements > by its next meeting in April 2000. > > We also condemn the forest products agreement for > the economic paradigm > that it perpetuates: the WTO and its members have > ignored the potential > adverse effects of trade liberalization on forest > ecosystems and forest > communities by failing to assess the environmental > and social impacts of > timber trade liberalization and on liberalization in > other sectors that > affect forests and forest peoples. The WTO and its > members have also failed > to adequately involve civil society in timber trade > and other > liberalization discussions. The proposal for a > forest products agreement > reflects an economic agenda which prioritizes trade > liberalization as an > end in itself rather than as a means which, in some > circumstances, may be > useful for improving environmental protection and > quality of life. This > agenda does not take into consideration the concerns > of the people and > communities who are ultimately affected. We the > undersigned look forward > to responses from our governments, the CSD and the > WTO regarding our > concerns over the proposed forest sector > liberalization. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > 6. Comment to USFWS to Protect Lynx > > The Predator Conservation Alliance needs your help > to get comments to > the US Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS) on its report > entitled "The > Scientific Basis for Lynx Conservation." > > As many of you know, the Fish & Wildlife Service > should have listed the > Lynx under the US Endangered Species Act long ago > and has used any > excuse it could find to delay listing. The report > has been yet another > excuse for FWS delays. > > The report was release a while ago. However, it > took the FWS more than > six weeks to put the entire report on the Internet > (while the comment > period clock still ticked away). Now, the report is > on line, but the > comment period ends September 24, 1999 - next > Friday! > > Please read the following alert by the Predator > Conservation Alliance, > read the report, and submit your comments. > > Thanks, > > Roger Featherstone > GREEN Director > > WHAT TO DO > > Please submit your comments on the Science Report by > mail or e-mail. > They must be postmarked or e-mailed by September 24. > The addresses > are: > > Field Supervisor, U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service > Montana Field Office > 100 N. Park Avenue, Suite 320 > Helena, MT 59601 > > e-mail: lynx@fws.gov > > You can read the entire report at: > http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/lynx.html > > For more information, contact: > David Gaillard, Coordinator > Forest Predator Protection Program > Predator Conservation Alliance > Bozeman, Montana > (406) 587-3389 > gaillard@wildrockies.org > > LYNX ACTIVIST ALERT > > Sixteen chapters of a scientific assessment of lynx > in North America > was released over the internet starting in August by > the U.S. Forest > Service. The report addresses all aspects of lynx > biology, > conservation and management. The report was > co-authored by 18 American > and Canadian lynx ecologists. > > The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS) has delayed > - more than once - > listing the lynx for protection under the Endangered > Species Act (ESA). > The latest delay has been justified by pending > release of this science > report, entitled "The Scientific Basis for Lynx > Conservation". This > report offers no scientific reasoning NOT to list > the lynx and if > anything, it confirms what scientists and lynx > advocates have been > saying all along: protective measures should be > implemented without > further delay! USFWS will make its decision whether > to list the lynx on > January 8, 2000. > > This may be the last public comment period available > for you to > advocate protecting the lynx under ESA. > > Our challenge as activists is to support sound > science over politics. > Please take time to insist that lynx are provided > ESA protections they > need and deserve! > > Points for your comments. > > Refer to these excerpts from the report that > highlight major issues > jeopardizing lynx survival in the northern forests > of the lower 48: > > * Lynx in the Contiguous U.S. are Imperiled. > "We know remarkably little about the current status > and numbers of > lynx in the contiguous United States. However, what > little we do know > indicates the subpopulations are not large. . it is > unwise to assume > that these populations can be reduced or further > isolated without > sharply increasing the risk of their individual and > collective > extinction." (McKelvey et al., Chap 2, p.14) > > * ... Especially Lynx in Areas Isolated from Canada. > . "the lynx in the northeastern United States are > effectively > isolated from the main Canadian populations... > Similarly, boreal > forests in Colorado and Utah are separated from the > larger areas of > boreal forest in Wyoming by at least 100 km. if they > still contain > native populations, these populations are > particularly endangered." > (McKelvey et al., Chap 2, p.13) > > Additional Factors in Lynx Population Declines: > > * Habitat Loss and Fragmentation > "Fragmentation of habitats occupied by lynx > (including increased > openings, higher road densities, exurban residential > development, and > wider use of snowmobiles and devices that compact > snow in areas with > deep, soft snow) is a plausible mechanism for the > questionable > conservation status of the lynx in the contiguous > United States." > (Buskirk et al., Chap 4, p.13) > > * Forest Practices > "We caution against uncritical application of > ecological > understandings derived from the North to southern > lynx and we emphasize > the potential importance of late-successional > forests as habitat for > hares, red squirrels, and lynx in the southern part > of the range of the > lynx." (Buskirk et al., Chap 14, p.1) > > .. "in areas subjected to large wildland fires, or > where inholdings > are managed for short-rotation timber yield using > even-aged management, > timber harvest (including salvage) may be > inappropriate for decades... > we would argue for a planned rate of disturbance > somewhat less than the > historically derived estimate. It is easy to > increase the disturbance > rate if desirable, but much harder to recover > old-growth forests > removed through overly aggressive management..." > (McKelvey et al., > Chap. 10, pp. 11-12) > > * Roads > "Roads into areas occupied by lynx may pose a threat > to lynx from > incidental harvest or poaching, increased access > during winter for > competing carnivores, especially coyotes, > disturbance or mortality from > vehicles, and loss of habitat." (Aubry et al., > Chap. 13, p.19) > > * Mortality Due to Trapping and Shooting > "Although legal harvest is no longer a conservation > concern, human- > caused mortality is believed to be additive in the > low-density lynx > populations characteristic of southern boreal > forests. If so, illegal > or incidental harvest could significantly reduce > population numbers of > lynx in southern regions." (Aubry et al., Chap. 13, > p.19) > > * Reliance on Canada's Lynx > "We cannot assume that lynx populations in the > contiguous United > States will be maintained by dispersal of lynx from > Canada, nor that > connectivity with larger habitat areas in Canada > will be maintained in > perpetuity." (McKelvey et al., Chap. 15, p.9) > > * The Upshot > "Our analysis of the current and historic > distribution of lynx > populations in the United States indicates that > large, contiguous areas > of suitable habitat are necessary for population > persistence." > (McKelvey et al., Chap. 15, p.8) > > "Our challenge, from the perspective of maintaining > lynx and their prey > in the context of ecosystem management, is to design > management > strategies that result in dynamic, sustainable > landscapes that > approximate the composition of natural systems." > (McKelvey et al., > Chap. 15, p.10) > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > 7. Hoosier NF Planning Begun > > The U.S. Forest Service is beginning the process of > revising the Land and > Resource Management Plan ("Forest Plan") for the > Hoosier National Forest. > Please ask for a Plan with no logging or other > commercial exploitation of > the Forest. Also, please return the response form or > write a letter asking > to be included in the process, and tell the Forest > Service what you feel is > important to consider in drafting the next Plan. > > Supervisor Ken Day, Forest Planner Regis Terney USFS > Hoosier National Forest > 811 Constitution Ave. > Bedford, IN 47421 > 812-275-5987 > > The response form lists 5 potential topics and asks > you to prioritize each > topic and state why and how the new Plan needs to > change to address each > topic. The five topics are: the Role of the Hoosier > National Forest, > Watershed Health & Restoration, Timber > Harvesting/vegetation management, > Prescribed fire, and the Trail system. There is also > space for "other" > topics you can write in. > > State that the role of the Hoosier National Forest > should be to preserve > forest ecosystems and the organisms that depend on > them, and to provide > low-impact wilderness recreation opportunities. > > State that watershed health & restoration is a > high-priority topic, that we > should eliminate soil disturbing activities from the > Hoosier and > decommission unneeded roads. > > State that timber harvesting/vegetation management > is a high-priority > topic. The next Plan should not allow any commercial > exploitation of the > forest for private gain i.e. no logging, mining, > etc. Also, the forest > openings program should be dropped from the new > Plan. > > Prescribed fire should only be used when the Forest > Service can demonstrate > there is a clear ecological need. The FS should > follow NEPA procedures > involve the public and prepare site-specific > Environmental Assessments or > Environmental Impact Statements for any proposed > burning projects. These > documents should clearly state what organisms at > what sites are expected to > benefit from the treatments. > > No new trails are needed on the Hoosier. Emphasis > should be placed on > enforcing rules concerning off-road vehicles and > horses. Under the current > Plan, off-road vehicles are not allowed in the > Forest. Horseback riders are > only to use trails designated for horses. > > Other topics you may want to mention include land > acquisition (purchase > land from willing sellers, but no land exchanges) > and special use permits > (no more special use permits for utilities or > logging projects on adjacent > land). > > Include your name and address. Thanks for > participating in the forest > planning process! > > Talking points by Donald (dwinslow@indiana.edu) > > Devin M. Scherubel > Network Support Coordinator, Heartwood > PO Box 7653, Columbia, MO 65205 > (573) 449-3537 > (573) 999-5790(cell phone) > devin@heartwood.org > http://www.heartwood.org > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 17:27:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16254 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09486 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:38:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sphinx.aces.uiuc.edu (sphinx.aces.uiuc.edu [128.174.134.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09476 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acesadmin88.aces.uiuc.edu ([128.174.134.183]) by SPHINX.ACES.UIUC.EDU (PMDF V5.2-31 #32951) with SMTP id <01JGIBY5EU86001BH1@SPHINX.ACES.UIUC.EDU> for sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:37:59 CST Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:34:29 -0500 From: Deborah Cavanaugh-Grant Subject: Re: Mites on Chickens In-reply-to: <37F1027B.854AA124@wclynx.com> X-Sender: cavanaughd@mail.aces.uiuc.edu To: Diane Cooner , "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Message-id: <3.0.5.32.19990928153429.03c65920@mail.aces.uiuc.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Content-type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2894 Diane I raise chickens too. Loss of feathers is normal. Once a year, usually in autumn, the feathers fall out and are renewed-moulting. There is a depluming mite, which burrows into the chicken's skin. To check for lice, look closely at the fluff between the feathers on the underside of the the chicken, around the vent. But don't get them on you! There are pesticides, but an old-time remedy is brushing crank-case oil on perches and into the cracks of the coop. You have probably seen your birds rolling around in the dust--chickens take dust baths to help eliminate parasites. Deborah At 11:01 AM 09/28/1999 -0700, you wrote: >Hello Saneteers; >I have a chicken that is starting to lose her feathers. I am told it may >be mites.What can I do to remedy this? >Thanks in advance, >diane in hot northern california > >At 11:01 AM 09/28/1999 -0700, Diane Cooner wrote: >Hello Saneteers; >I have a chicken that is starting to lose her feathers. I am told it may >be mites.What can I do to remedy this? >Thanks in advance, >diane in hot northern california > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > 0000,8080,0000Deborah Cavanaugh-Grant University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences Agroecology/Sustainable Agriculture Program P.O. Box 410 Greenview, Illinois 62642-0410 217/968-5512 (office phone and FAX) 0000,8080,0000Email:cavanaughd@mail.aces.uiuc.edu http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/~asap/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 18:08:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17193 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15090 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15081 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.108] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:31:00 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:40:56 -0400 Subject: Mites on chickens From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19990928213100027.AAA240@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.108]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2895 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:01:31 -0700 > From: Diane Cooner > Subject: Mites on Chickens > > Hello Saneteers; > I have a chicken that is starting to lose her feathers. I am told it may > be mites.What can I do to remedy this? > Thanks in advance, > diane in hot northern california Hi Diane, lots of things cause feather loss, including molt, but if you think its mites it won't hurt to treat for them. Sometimes you can't see the mites, but if you hold the bird in your hands for a few minutes you may feel the mites crawling on your arm, very tiny little buggers. I had them come in here once on a batch of birds delivered for processing. Best way I know to get rid of them is to dust the hens with Diatomaceous Earth, and give them a dust bathing area with it. The mites will live in nests, especially wooden ones, so clean out all the nests and pressure wash them with a mild bleach solution. If you have lots of birds you might consider lining your nests with the synthetic nest liners that look like turf grass. They keep the eggs cleaner and don't harbor mites as badly as planer shavings or straw/hay will. You can find out more information from poultry growers by subscribing to pasturepoultry@onelist.com you can access that list through www.onelist.com Good luck Andy Lee, Good Earth Farm School, Buena Vista, Virginia To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Sep 28 23:15:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22924 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04820 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:50:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04770 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.31 (mx3-17.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.31]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00063; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:49:01 -0500 Message-ID: <37F18195.4A34@smallfarms.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:03:49 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Mickey Mouse. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2896 Hi Farmers and Ranchers, My wife and daughters just got back from Disney World wearing Mickey Mouse T shirts. They were tanned, smiling, and happy for having been to the place of their dreams. You all know the look and the extra baggage. And I was really happy to see them after ten days alone, except for the dogs, cats, fish and our herd of sheep. But something was really wrong with this picture. They looked great and they were wearing T shirts that they bought to promote a place they spent money to have a good time at. No mistake about it. They were promoting Disney World and gladly paying to do it. Those Disney people are geniuses. Now if we could get every small farmer and rancher in the country to wear a T shirt and hat with his or her farm name on it, wed all be in business too. Hang your hat at www.smallfarms.com Glenn Buy from the Farmer To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 29 11:11:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01478 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08414 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:19:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08378 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26599 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (dlp99.green.eri.net [207.90.124.163]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA59352; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006401bf0a87$e0ad9c00$a37c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Wayne Burleson" , "Tim Rosenbeck" , "The Evers" , "Sarah Stiver" , "Sanet" , "Randy Seeger" , "OEFFA" , "Mark & Julie Schmitmeyer" , "Marian Buckner" , "Lisa Grilliot" , "Jesse Peters" , "Jeff Mescher" , "Farm Week" , "Dr. Walter Goldstien" , "Denny & Becky Schmiesing" , "Dave Heckman" , "Dave & Helen Forgey" , "Dan Kremer" , "Country Living" , "Angie Demange" Subject: Fw: Alert Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:35:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2897 -----Original Message----- From: John and Marlene To: ps@erinet.com Date: Monday, September 27, 1999 6:25 PM Subject: Fw: Alert > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mary Schmitmeyer >To: >Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:25 PM >Subject: Fw: Alert > > >> >> >> ---------- >> > From: Hoying Family >> > To: Tom & Laura ; Mary & Bob ; >> Becky ; John & Amy ; Rachel >> ; Maureen ; Glen >> ; Gina ; Mom at Work >> ; Amy ; Highers Family >> ; Griner Family >> > Subject: Fw: Alert >> > Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 4:03 PM >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Bruggeman >> > To: ann ruwolt ; Bev n Randy ; bob n >> pam >> > ; Carol Borchers ; Dale >Heitkamp >> > ; dave heitkamp ; dave myers >> > ; elwin drummon ; Gene & Deb >> > ; Janel Selhorst ; Jerry >> Arling >> > ; julie link ; Kathy >> > Bruggeman ; Leon Heitkamp ; >Lisa >> > Seitz ; Mike Bruggeman ; Pat >> Klenke >> > ; rox-mark docter ; steve hoying >> > ; Vaughn Hipple ; Vondy >> > >> > Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 9:57 AM >> > Subject: Fw: Alert >> > >> > >> > > >> > >-----Original Message----- >> > >From: Chad Browder >> > >To: kathy ; jenny ; duck >> > >; curtis ; Bruggeman >> > > >> > >Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 12:25 AM >> > >Subject: Fw: Alert >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > >>-----Original Message----- >> > >>From: Seitz Electric,Inc. >> > >>To: Chad & Renee Browder >> > >>Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:45 PM >> > >>Subject: Fw: Alert >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >> > >>>----- Original Message ----- >> > >>>From: larry & vicki >> > >>>To: terry iliff ; steve seitz >> > >; >> > >>>steve hoelscher ; mike&leslie strabley >> > >>>; marie hornberger ; >> john >> > >>>springer ; janet and dave pike ; >> don >> > >>>young <888d@bright.net>; denise jones ; danny >> > >>>; corey giere ; brad >giere >> > >>>; barb westgerdes >> > >>>Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 3:00 PM >> > >>>Subject: Fw: Alert >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Subject: Alert >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> > PASS THIS ON TO ANYONE YOU HAVE AN E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR. >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>> >> > If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say Jesus" DO >> NOT >> > >>>> >OPEN >> > >>>> >> > IT. It will erase everything on your hard drive. This >> information >> > >>>> >was >> > >>>> >> > announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is >a >> > >very >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> >> > dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa," and that there is >> NO >> > >>>> >remedy >> > >>>> >> > for it at this time. >> > >>>> >> > Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat >> > >>>> >function >> > >>>> >> > from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all >> documents >> > >>>> >on >> > >>>> >the >> > >>>> >> > hard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape >> Navigator >> > >and >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> >> > Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM >> > >>>> >compatible >> > >>>> >> > computers. >> > >>>> >> > This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know >> about >> > >>>> >it. >> > >>>> >> > Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and >> > please >> > >>>> >> > share it with all your online friends ASAP so that this threat >> may >> > >>>> >be >> > >>>> >> > stopped. Please practice cautionary measures and tell anyone >> that >> > >>>> >may >> > >>>> >> > have access to your computer. >> > >>>> >> > Forward this warning to everyone that might access the >> Internet. >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>> >> > >> > ___________________________________________________________________ >> > >>>> > >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 29 13:42:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05312 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20510 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:42:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20480 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:42:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 56-3.clever.net (56-3.clever.net [209.235.6.254]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29569 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (r-152.78.alltel.net [166.102.152.78]) by 56-3.clever.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA28892; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901bf0a98$dd0ebaa0$4e9866a6@default> Reply-To: "Christiane Hitchcock" From: "Christiane Hitchcock" To: "Paul Schmitmeyer" , "Wayne Burleson" , "Tim Rosenbeck" , "The Evers" , "Sarah Stiver" , "Sanet" , "Randy Seeger" , "OEFFA" , "Mark & Julie Schmitmeyer" , "Marian Buckner" , "Lisa Grilliot" , "Jesse Peters" , "Jeff Mescher" , "Farm Week" , "Dr. Walter Goldstien" , "Denny & Becky Schmiesing" , "Dave Heckman" , "Dave & Helen Forgey" , "Dan Kremer" , "Country Living" , "Angie Demange" References: <006401bf0a87$e0ad9c00$a37c5acf@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Alert Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:36:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2898 Please check out hoaxes before forwarding them to everyone on the net!!! http://www.itd.umich.edu/~wwwitd/virus-busters/hoaxes/guts.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer To: Wayne Burleson ; Tim Rosenbeck ; The Evers ; Sarah Stiver ; Sanet ; Randy Seeger ; OEFFA ; Mark & Julie Schmitmeyer ; Marian Buckner ; Lisa Grilliot ; Jesse Peters ; Jeff Mescher ; Farm Week ; Dr. Walter Goldstien ; Denny & Becky Schmiesing ; Dave Heckman ; Dave & Helen Forgey ; Dan Kremer ; Country Living ; Angie Demange Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 10:35 AM Subject: Fw: Alert > > -----Original Message----- > From: John and Marlene > To: ps@erinet.com > Date: Monday, September 27, 1999 6:25 PM > Subject: Fw: Alert > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Mary Schmitmeyer > >To: > >Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:25 PM > >Subject: Fw: Alert > > > > > >> > >> > >> ---------- > >> > From: Hoying Family > >> > To: Tom & Laura ; Mary & Bob ; > >> Becky ; John & Amy ; Rachel > >> ; Maureen ; Glen > >> ; Gina ; Mom at Work > >> ; Amy ; Highers Family > >> ; Griner Family > >> > Subject: Fw: Alert > >> > Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 4:03 PM > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Bruggeman > >> > To: ann ruwolt ; Bev n Randy ; bob n > >> pam > >> > ; Carol Borchers ; Dale > >Heitkamp > >> > ; dave heitkamp ; dave myers > >> > ; elwin drummon ; Gene & Deb > >> > ; Janel Selhorst ; Jerry > >> Arling > >> > ; julie link ; Kathy > >> > Bruggeman ; Leon Heitkamp ; > >Lisa > >> > Seitz ; Mike Bruggeman ; Pat > >> Klenke > >> > ; rox-mark docter ; steve hoying > >> > ; Vaughn Hipple ; Vondy > >> > > >> > Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 9:57 AM > >> > Subject: Fw: Alert > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > >-----Original Message----- > >> > >From: Chad Browder > >> > >To: kathy ; jenny ; duck > >> > >; curtis ; Bruggeman > >> > > > >> > >Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 12:25 AM > >> > >Subject: Fw: Alert > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >> > >>From: Seitz Electric,Inc. > >> > >>To: Chad & Renee Browder > >> > >>Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 6:45 PM > >> > >>Subject: Fw: Alert > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >> > >>>From: larry & vicki > >> > >>>To: terry iliff ; steve seitz > >> > >; > >> > >>>steve hoelscher ; mike&leslie strabley > >> > >>>; marie hornberger ; > >> john > >> > >>>springer ; janet and dave pike ; > >> don > >> > >>>young <888d@bright.net>; denise jones ; danny > >> > >>>; corey giere ; brad > >giere > >> > >>>; barb westgerdes > >> > >>>Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 3:00 PM > >> > >>>Subject: Fw: Alert > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> Subject: Alert > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > PASS THIS ON TO ANYONE YOU HAVE AN E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR. > >> > >>>> >> > > >> > >>>> >> > > >> > >>>> >> > If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say Jesus" > DO > >> NOT > >> > >>>> >OPEN > >> > >>>> >> > IT. It will erase everything on your hard drive. This > >> information > >> > >>>> >was > >> > >>>> >> > announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is > >a > >> > >very > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> >> > dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa," and that there is > >> NO > >> > >>>> >remedy > >> > >>>> >> > for it at this time. > >> > >>>> >> > Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat > >> > >>>> >function > >> > >>>> >> > from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all > >> documents > >> > >>>> >on > >> > >>>> >the > >> > >>>> >> > hard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape > >> Navigator > >> > >and > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> >> > Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM > >> > >>>> >compatible > >> > >>>> >> > computers. > >> > >>>> >> > This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know > >> about > >> > >>>> >it. > >> > >>>> >> > Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and > >> > please > >> > >>>> >> > share it with all your online friends ASAP so that this > threat > >> may > >> > >>>> >be > >> > >>>> >> > stopped. Please practice cautionary measures and tell anyone > >> that > >> > >>>> >may > >> > >>>> >> > have access to your computer. > >> > >>>> >> > Forward this warning to everyone that might access the > >> Internet. > >> > >>>> >> > > >> > >>>> >> > > >> > ___________________________________________________________________ > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 29 13:53:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05542 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00418 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:02:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from runner.ucdavis.edu (runner.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00331 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by runner.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.12) with ESMTP id KAA10100 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:00:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Benjamin Shouse X-Sender: bnshouse@runner.ucdavis.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Jesus virus a hoax Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2899 Re the "virus alert" just posted, I cut and pasted the following from www.antivirus.com/vinfo/hoaxes/jesus.html. It Takes Guts To Say Jesus This virus hoax utilizes several elements common to false virus alerts: It claims that the virus will "erase everything on your hard drive" just by reading an email. This is not possible. It asks you to forward the email to everyone you know. It uses an appeal to authority by claiming this information is from IBM and AOL. This is not a real virus, just an attempt to panic users with misinformation. Verify any virus warning with a reliable source. HOAX TEXT: SUBJECT: Important Virus Warning If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say 'Jesus'" DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out to as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. This information was announced yesterday morning from IBM; please share it with everyone that might access the internet. Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Please practice cautionary measures and forward this to all your online friends ASAP. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 29 15:58:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08510 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10597 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:19:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10592 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09094; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006401bf0a87$e0ad9c00$a37c5acf@oemcomputer> References: <006401bf0a87$e0ad9c00$a37c5acf@oemcomputer> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:16:54 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: Fw: Alert Cc: Wayne Burleson , Tim Rosenbeck , The Evers , Sarah Stiver , Randy Seeger , OEFFA , Mark & Julie Schmitmeyer , Marian Buckner , Lisa Grilliot , Jesse Peters , Jeff Mescher , Farm Week , Denny & Becky Schmiesing , Dave Heckman , Dave & Helen Forgey , Dan Kremer , Country Living , Angie Demange Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2900 Howdy, all-- > >> > >>>> Subject: Alert > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > PASS THIS ON TO ANYONE YOU HAVE AN E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR. > >> > >>>> >> > > >> > >>>> >> > > >> > >>>> >> > If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say Jesus" >DO > >> NOT > >> > >>>> >OPEN > >> > >>>> >> > IT. It will erase everything on your hard drive. This > >> information > >> > >>>> >was > >> > >>>> >> > announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is > >a > >> > >very > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> >> > dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa," and that there is > >> NO > >> > >>>> >remedy > >> > >>>> >> > for it at this time. > >> > >>>> >> > Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat > >> > >>>> >function > >> > >>>> >> > from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all > >> documents > >> > >>>> >on > >> > >>>> >the > >> > >>>> >> > hard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape > >> Navigator > >> > >and > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> >> > Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM > >> > >>>> >compatible > >> > >>>> >> > computers. > >> > >>>> >> > This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know > >> about > >> > >>>> >it. > >> > >>>> >> > Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and > >> > please > >> > >>>> >> > share it with all your online friends ASAP so that this >threat > >> may > >> > >>>> >be > >> > >>>> >> > stopped. Please practice cautionary measures and tell anyone > >> that > >> > >>>> >may > >> > >>>> >> > have access to your computer. > >> > >>>> >> > Forward this warning to everyone that might access the > >> Internet. And it will make your puppy speak in tongues, and all the water in your house to convert to Diet Coke, and your children to become MegaDeath followers, while seducing your spouse, burning down your house, and rewriting all your CDs and audio tapes with footage of Congressional debates as aired on CNN. :^D The above is not only an absurd mess of techno-babble, ---------> THIS IS A HOAX <------------ ***********IT'S A HOAX*********** http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html#jesus This sort of hoax is a kind of virus in and of itself. It doesn't affect the code on your computer. It affects other things. Like the code in your brain. For example, this message was 8K (8,000 bytes) long. Sent out to about 1,000 people on SANET alone, that's 8 megabytes of wasted bandwidth, plus the space it will occupy in the archives. Not to mention all the people who will do what the hoax is intended to do: get them to pass the waste along to others. ***NEVER pass along computer virus warnings unless you have personally confirmed that the virus is real and documented by people whose job it is to do that.*** If you have not done the legwork to check out these assertions of a virus, and you pass them along, you are simply contributing to the irresponsible use of bandwidth and others' attention that virus creators intend. Here are two very good hoax-check sites: CIAC hoax site http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html Computer virus myths site http://kumite.com/myths/ Here are two very good sites that contain databases of actual, confirmed viruses, worms, and Trojan horses: McAfee's Virus Information Library http://vil.mcafee.com/ Dr. Solomon's Virus Central http://www.drsolomons.com/vircen/index.cfm If you get a virus warning, only pass it along if you can document its confirmed status in one of the two above sources AND THEN PASS ALONG THE URL WITH THE WARNING. NEVER pass along any virus warning that comes over without this kind of documentation. And check the documentation before you pass it along. Help stop these hoaxes from wasting time, attention, and bandwidth. The best source for late-breaking computer virus information: C|Net http://home.cnet.com/ See the Tech News or Antivirus sections of the site. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Look around the table. If you don't see a sucker, get up. Because you're the sucker. --poker player Amarillo Slim To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 29 16:01:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08577 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:01:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:03:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02838 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ems02.energy.wsu.edu (ems02.energy.wsu.edu [192.152.10.236]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01276 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ems02.energy.wsu.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:01:06 -0700 Message-ID: <32BFA4EACB99D1119D110020AFD209CE6B3B74@ems02.energy.wsu.edu> From: Cristina Love To: "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" , Wayne Burleson , Tim Rosenbeck , The Evers , Sarah Stiver , Sanet , Randy Seeger , OEFFA , Mark & Julie Schmitmeyer , Marian Buckner , Lisa Grilliot , Jesse Peters , Jeff Mescher , Farm Week , "Dr. Walter Goldstien" , Denny & Becky Schmiesing , Dave Heckman , Dave & Helen Forgey , Dan Kremer , Country Living , Angie Demange Subject: RE: Alert Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:01:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2901 As an FYI, you should know that it is impossible to get a computer virus simply by opening an email. You would have to open an accompanying attachment in the email message, in order to get a virus. As a safe netizen, it is smart to first scan any attachment with good antivirus software (I use Norton and McAffee). And even safer, do some investigation about the attachment: Who sent it? Is it from someone you know? Where did they get the attachment? Why are they sending it? Was it something you requested? If you don't get satisfactory answers to these or other questions, consider simply deleting the email message. There are a lot of urban legends floating around out there, and this is one of them. It is wise to investigate these extreme messages before forwarding them to "everyone" (as the email suggests). One of the best sites I've found is http://urbanlegends.about.com/ Cristina Love WSU Coop. Ext. Energy Program -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer [mailto:ps@erinet.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 7:35 AM To: Wayne Burleson; Tim Rosenbeck; The Evers; Sarah Stiver; Sanet; Randy Seeger; OEFFA; Mark & Julie Schmitmeyer; Marian Buckner; Lisa Grilliot; Jesse Peters; Jeff Mescher; Farm Week; Dr. Walter Goldstien; Denny & Becky Schmiesing; Dave Heckman; Dave & Helen Forgey; Dan Kremer; Country Living; Angie Demange Subject: Fw: Alert >> > >>>> Subject: Alert >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> > PASS THIS ON TO ANYONE YOU HAVE AN E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR. >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>> >> > If you receive an email titled "It Takes Guts to Say Jesus" DO >> NOT >> > >>>> >OPEN >> > >>>> >> > IT. It will erase everything on your hard drive. This >> information >> > >>>> >was >> > >>>> >> > announced yesterday morning from IBM; AOL states that this is >a >> > >very >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> >> > dangerous virus, much worse than "Melissa," and that there is >> NO >> > >>>> >remedy >> > >>>> >> > for it at this time. >> > >>>> >> > Some very sick individual has succeeded in using the reformat >> > >>>> >function >> > >>>> >> > from Norton Utilities causing it to completely erase all >> documents >> > >>>> >on >> > >>>> >the >> > >>>> >> > hard drive. It has been designed to work with Netscape >> Navigator >> > >and >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> >> > Microsoft Internet Explorer. It destroys Macintosh and IBM >> > >>>> >compatible >> > >>>> >> > computers. >> > >>>> >> > This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know >> about >> > >>>> >it. >> > >>>> >> > Pass this warning along to EVERYONE in your address book and >> > please >> > >>>> >> > share it with all your online friends ASAP so that this threat >> may >> > >>>> >be >> > >>>> >> > stopped. Please practice cautionary measures and tell anyone >> that >> > >>>> >may >> > >>>> >> > have access to your computer. >> > >>>> >> > Forward this warning to everyone that might access the >> Internet. >> > >>>> >> > >> > >>>> >> > >> > ___________________________________________________________________ >> > >>>> > >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Sep 29 19:27:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14665 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08842 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08782 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13459 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id SAA09226 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:39:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:39:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Dial 1-800-578-7453 for a very humorous message from B&W Tobacco Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2902 Found this in triangle.general: <><><> The paragraph below was on another list. This message is so incredibly bizarre. Only takes a few seconds to call. What do you think? For real? And, *why*? >If you get a minute, call 1-800-578-7453. It's the customer service >line for Brown & Williamson, the tobacco company. You won't have to >talk with a real person, but you don't want to miss this message!!! (While it's still there). Kira <><><> Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 04:26:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23222 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17879 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:44:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17757 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:44:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16444 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:43:53 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08311 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:33:18 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 30 Sep 99 09:26:20 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 30 Sep 99 09:25:25 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:25:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: NYC pesticide spraying Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id DAA17773 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2903 hello misha, >>``I think this is more a reaction to public relations than it >>is science,'' Giuliani said. ``Both substances are safe. >Note that Rudy points out it's those OTHER people who are falling >victim to PR, in telling everyone that an organophosphate >pesticide is safe. 'In recognition of the hazards to human health, it is a violation of federal law to claim that pesticides are "nontoxic," "safe," or "safe when used as directed."' [Federal Insecticide Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (8)]. klaus +-[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]------+ | | | Two buffalo were standing on the range when a | | passing tourist said: "Those are the mangiest, | | scroungiest, most moth-eaten miserable beasts | | I have ever seen." | | One of the buffalo turned to the other and | | said: "I think I just heard a discouraging | | word." | +------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 08:43:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25432 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16524 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:00:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from wstcm1.westco.net ([205.245.79.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16504 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from WVNVAXA.WVNET.EDU [205.245.78.170] by wstcm1.westco.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A09A19800146; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:59:22 -0400 Message-id: Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:59:55 -0400 Subject: Article on Farming as a Solution to Sprawl To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: MEBUCKNER@wvwise.org (Marian Buckner) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2904 Attached is an outstanding article on farming as a solution to sprawl. If you prefer not to open the attachment, you can get in touch with Farming: The Journal of Northeast Agriculture, Moose River Publishing Company, PO Box 449, St. Johnsbury VT 05819, Phone 800-422-7147 email: farming@together.net. This article, "Want to Fight Sprawl? Farming is a Solution for This Environmental Problem," by Lorraine Stuart Merrill was published in the April 1999 issue of this journal. If you are interested in this subject, this is a not-to-be-missed article. begin 666 Sprawl.wps M`?X-3*`R``"@,@``H`6P$U0;``#0`@````#__________P`!``#4-P``N#H` M`(`Z```*`(HZ```<`````````````````````````*8Z`````*8Z`````*8Z M`````*8Z```2`*`%H`4(!P@'X#W0+P$``````-`".`0```````"F.@`````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M`````````````````````````````````````````$9R;VTZ("!M96)U8VMN M97)`=W9W:7-E+F]R9PD)"0E397!T96UB97(@,C0T* M8V%U2!H879E(&=I=F5N(&UE('1H96ER#0IP97)M M:7-S:6]N('1O('-E;F0@=&AI6]N92!T:&4@2!W87DL('-H87!E+"!O2X@(%9I8V4@4')E M2!F87)M6QO2!A9W)I8W5L='5R M86P@:6YD=7-T2!T;W=N(&]F(&QE2!W:71H('!O<'5L871I;B!O=F5R(#$Q+#`P,"!M86ME2P@:&%P:&%Z87)D M('!A='1E6QOF]N:6YG(&%R92!G=6ED:6YG(&1E=F5L M;W!M96YT(&%N9"!T:&4@=7-I;F<@=7`@;V8@86=R:6-U;'1U2!W87D@=&AA="!C;W5L9"!P2X@(")) M9B`@("`-"B`@("`@(&IU2!S<&5N="!I;B!T:&4@;F5W($5N9VQA;F0@2!A;F0@;&]Y86QT>2!A2!A;F0@2!R86ES960@ M9F]O9',N#0HT+B`@4VAO2X@(")4:&4@16-O;F]M:6,@26UP86-T(&]F($]P96X@4W!A8V4@:6X@3F5W M($AA;7!S:&ER92PB(&$@,3DY.2!S='5D>2!B>2!297-O=7)C92!3>7-T96US M($=R;W5P+"!);F,N(&-O;6UI2!T:&4@4V]C:65T>2!F;W(@ M4')O=&5C=&EO;B!O9B!.2"!&;W)E&-A=F%T960L(&]R(&1E=F5L;W!E M9"(I(&QA;F0@<')O=FED97,@)#$L-3`P(&]F(&5C;VYO;6EC(&)E;F5F:70@ M=&\@2P@86-C;W)D:6YG('1O('1H92!R97!O M2!A;F0@:6YD:7)E8W1L>2!E86-H M('EE87(M+6]V97(@,C4E(&]F($YE=R!(86UP2!A2!D;R!N;W0@:6YC;'5D92!T:&4@8V]N=')I8G5T:6]N(&]F(&]P M96X@2!T;R!O<&5N('-P M86-E+"(@=&AE(')E<&]R="!C;VYC;'5D97,N("`B5&AE(&UA9VYI='5D92!O M9B!T:&4@8V]N=')I8G5T:6]N(&]F(&]P96X@2!O<&5N('-P86-E('-H;W5L9"!B92!A(&-O;G1I M;G5I;F<@:7-S=64@;V8@<'5B;&EC('!O;&EC>2!C;VYC97)N+B(-"@E7:&EL M92!T:&ES('-T=61Y('=A2!O=&AE2!H87,@8V]M<&%R86)L92!V86QU97,N M(B`@5F5R;6]N="P@9F]R(&5X86UP;&4L('=O=6QD(&)E(")B6)E(&5V96X@82!L:71T;&4@:&EG:&5R(B!I;B!P97)C96YT M86=E(&]F(&=R;W-S('-T871E('!R;V1U8W0@9&5P96YD96YT(&]N(&]P96XM M2!M=6-H(&)E8V%U2P@=F5R>2!C;VYS97)V871I=F4@:6X@=&AE('=A>2!I="!D;V-U;65N=',@ M=&AE2!O9B!A;F5C M9&]T86P@979I9&5N8V4L(B!H92!N;W1E9"X@(")4:&4@;6]B:6QE+"!H:6=H M97(M961U8V%T:6]N(&QE=F5L+"!T96-H;F]L;V=Y+6)A2!T;R!E9'5C871I;VYA;"!I;G-T:71U=&EO;G,L(&-U M;'1U2!T;R!O<&5N M('-P86-E(&ES(&]B=FEO=7-L>2!A(&9A8W1O2!S:6=N:69I8V%N="XB M#0H)06X@87)T:6-L92!I;B!T:&4@0F]S=&]N($9E9&5R86P@4F5S97)V92!" M86YK)W,@4F5G:6]N86P@4F5V:65W(&UA9V%Z:6YE("A3<')I;F<@,3DY-RD@ M=V%R;G,@=&AA="!T:&4@;6%R:V5T(&5C;VYO;7D@9&]E2!W;W)K:6YG(&9A2!T:&5M(&=R;W=S+B`@0G5T('1H M97D@=VEL;"!B92!U;F1E2!T:&4@<')I=F%T92!M87)K M970L(B!T:&4@87)T:6-L92!S=&%T97,N("`B3VYC92!M861E(&%V86EL86)L M92!T;R!O;F4@<&5R"!F87)M;&%N9"!A="!L;W=E2!#;VUP86-T+B`@5&AI2!A M2P@;6%I;G1A:6YS($%G+B!# M;VUM:7-S:6]N97(@5&%Y;&]R+B`@270@;6%Y(&)E(&]N92!W961G92!T;R!U M2`Q."4@9G)O;2`Q.3DR('1O(#$Y.3<_ M(B!A6QO2!T:&4@;65D:6$@86YD(&]P:6YI M;VXM;6%K97)S(&%R92!S;VUE('-U2!T:&4@ M3F5W($5N9VQA;F0@3D%34R!I;B!E87)L>2!&96)R=6%R>2PB(%1A>6QO2!-:71C:&5L;"!C875T M:6]N2!T:&4@8VAA;F=E(&EN(&%G96YC M>2!C;VYD=6-T:6YG('1H92!C96YS=7,N("!3:6YC92!54T1!)W,@3D%34R!T M;V]K(&]V97(@=&AE(&9A7,@=&\@<')O9FET(&9R;VT@<&]P=6QA=&EO;B!G M6QO2!W87DL('-H87!E+"!OW=[ M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` M``````````````,""!`#``@0`P`!```S`0``40$``%,!``"8`0``F@$``.8! M```R`@``=@(``,P"`````P```@,``$(#``!$`P``CP,``.0#```_!```C00` M`(\$```_!0``1@4``!L&``!-!@``5P8``&<&```````````````````````` M```````````````89P8``($&``"#!@``N08``+L&``#X!@``^@8```,'```% M!P``(@<``"0'``!O"0``%@P``'D/```)$0``4A(``*T2```)$P``3A,``*P3 M```1%```;10``,84```>%0``.Q4````````````````````````````````` M`````!@[%0``E14``.X5```N%@``B!8``.$6````%P``5A<``+`7``#>%P`` MX1<``.07```U&```5AD``!X=```8'P``NB```+XA```Q)0``)R8``,,G```6 M*```UBD``'; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:33:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12369 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:59:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12357 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:58:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Heidi.A.Busse@LAWRENCE.EDU'" , "'busseh@lawrence.edu'" Subject: sust communities & soils Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:58:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2905 Forwarding: Please reply to Heidi or to sanet. Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:39:52 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: Heidi Busse Subject: sust communities & soils To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu hi all -- 1. is anyone out there a member of an intentional, sustainable community? more specifically, are you producing/gathering all (or almost all) of your food on the land around you? is your waste remaining near the waster? i seek, because a friend who is studying rainforest ecology in costa rica encountered a group of families who, after living in san juan for an unknown number of years, decided to 'return to nature' . . . they sought a different, more connected life with the land, their children, and friends. this group of people sparked curiousity within my friend, who now wants to learn more about intentional/small/sustainable communities . . . who is doing it? how? are there resources for groups? if anyone is doing it and has a website, that/your web address in particular would be very helpful. 2. another feeler for another friend . . . this friend started a compost pile behind her house last spring; this fall, she has spread her aged pile around her house, desiring to plant bulbs for next spring. in what nutrients is her pile rich? how heavily does the answer to that question depend upon "what" was composted or what was added (e.g., grass clippings, leaves) to the pile? this pile was aged in east-central wisconsin . . . any suggestions as to what bulbs to plant? thanks much, --heidi-- ---------------------- Heidi Busse Heidi.A.Busse@LAWRENCE.EDU To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 12:37:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02029 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06186 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:54:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cybermesa.com (root@mail.cybermesa.com [198.59.109.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06166 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by mail.cybermesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3(SpamKiller1.0)) with ESMTP id JAA06817 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.12.75.121] (dial102.roadrunner.com [209.12.75.102]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA19607 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Cost of production workbook Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2906 Dear Sanet, I'm working on a cost of production workbook for small-scale organic growers in New Mexico. Can anyone direct me to a similar publication for helping farmers understand their operation and bottomline? For example, how to calculate depreciation and other overhead costs? Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 12:42:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02137 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:42:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07473 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:57:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07395 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:57:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08544 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA27943; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm9-25.nidlink.com [216.18.141.80]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA26040; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909301555.IAA26040@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:07:40 -0700 To: , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Key Allergenicity Report Posted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2907 We have posted a major report on GMO foods and allergenicity on Ag BioTech InfoNet entitled "Genetically Modified Foods and Allergenicity: Safety Aspects and Consumer Information." It is a workshop report from a May 28-29, 1999 meeting organized by the Dutch Consumer and Biotechnology Foundation, which is affiliated with Consumentenbond, the major Dutch consumer organization. The meeting was sponsored by the EU Commission, Unilever, and the Association of Dutch Infant and Dietetic Food Industry. The report contains up to date and useful scientific reviews as well as detailed information on Dutch efforts in the labelling and consumer education arenas. Thanks to Huib de Vriend of for providing the report to Ag BioTech InfoNet. Contact Huib directly for further information on the report or ongoing activities in the Netherlands. Chuck http://www.biotech-info.net/allergenicity_report.pdf Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 13:16:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02953 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27235 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:32:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gatekeeper.lawrence.edu (ns1.lawrence.edu [143.44.128.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27225 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by gatekeeper.lawrence.edu; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA17224; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:29:58 -0500 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:33:27 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: Heidi Busse Subject: sust communities In-Reply-To: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Reply-To: heidi.a.busse@lawrence.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.5 Build (43) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Authentication: none Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id MAA27228 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2908 here is more detailed info as to why my friend is seeking info on sust communities -- "Im also doing a bit of research for my huge (my only, really) project for this term, which has to do with the ecological sustainability, the quality of life, and the future applicability of a village high in the Talamancas on the Pacific side that is called Durika. "Durika is made up of 11 families that left San jose [i messed up . . . san jose, NOT san juan] (for OBVIOUS reasons) in order to found a completely self-sufficient and sustainable community in the hills. They farm organically, they purchase reserve land, they build their own houses. Two friends and I are planning a trip to Durika of about 6 days to research the success of the place, and its possible applicability to others who might have similar interests. Check out www.durika.com for all the info. Youll love this place. "What Id love from you is any email info, websites, journal articles, books, or any other reference material or literature. WEd greatly appreciate any or all info that you could send us on sustainability within small communities, especially those that may have translocated from an urban setting. "With a little luck, were going to try to pioneer a partnership with ACM [associated colleges of the midwest]. The thing is, they are all about spreading the word, and were all about getting some cheap lodging. We figure that if we could propose a long term research commitment and visit schedule for them, maybe theyd cut the lodging price in half. Its all about the long term and the big picture, right?." thanks again for any info that i can pass along . . . and browse thru myself. --heidi-- ---------------------- Heidi Busse Heidi.A.Busse@LAWRENCE.EDU To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 15:18:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05409 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01121 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:42:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01016 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:41:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Vlad Valentinov'" Subject: FW: Information request Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:41:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2909 Please include Vlad Valentinov [vlv2@psu.edu] in your replies. -----Original Message----- From: Vlad Valentinov [mailto:vlv2@psu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 3:50 PM To: fmagdoff@moose.uvm.edu Subject: Information request Dear Fred, I am a Ukrainian participant of Faculty Exchange Program funded by USDA. Currently I conduct research at Pennsylvania State University and I look for possible contacts and opportunities of cooperation between the Extension Center which I work for in Ukraine and American organizations which might be interested in cooperation with and support to it. Our Ukrainian Extension Center provides support to the agricultural producers of one administrative division of Ukraine (Zaporozhye oblast) in the following areas: 1) farm restructuring (transformation of agricultural companies with collective ownership over land and property into private companies); 2) advising services (in technology of crop and animal production, finance, taxation, accounting, law business planning, decision-making support); 3) training (in technology, finance, taxation, farm management); 4) supply of information (market prices, search for business partners, etc.); 5) support to cooperatives The research projects of our Centre also provide a unique opportunity to understand the effects of social change on agricultural productivity, production efficiency, and business performance (study of farm restructuring, ownership transformation, a variety of economic and sociological research projects, construction of integrated agricultural information network in Ukraine). Could you recommend any American organization which might be interested in cooperation with our Extension centre in any one of the following areas: 1) exchange of experiences and methodologies; 2) collaboration in joint research and training programs: 3) technical assistance. Is your organization interested in cooperation with us in the above listed areas? Thank you very much for your cooperation. Hope for an early reply. Respectfully, Vlad Valentinov, Pennsylvania State University, USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 17:32:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07780 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02931 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02898 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business ([199.4.66.71]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id NAA01993; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: "Andy Clark" , Cc: "'Vlad Valentinov'" , Subject: RE: Information request Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:28:57 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2910 You may want to contact Dave Blood, Director of the Farmer to Farmer program (USAID funded) based in Lviv, Ukraine. He may have some suggestions, and is very familiar with existing US gov't and private involvement in ag issues in the Ukraine. His email: dave@lol.lviv.ua - Michael ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Andy Clark Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 11:41 AM To: 'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu' Cc: 'Vlad Valentinov' Subject: FW: Information request Please include Vlad Valentinov [vlv2@psu.edu] in your replies. -----Original Message----- From: Vlad Valentinov [mailto:vlv2@psu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 3:50 PM To: fmagdoff@moose.uvm.edu Subject: Information request Dear Fred, I am a Ukrainian participant of Faculty Exchange Program funded by USDA. Currently I conduct research at Pennsylvania State University and I look for possible contacts and opportunities of cooperation between the Extension Center which I work for in Ukraine and American organizations which might be interested in cooperation with and support to it. Our Ukrainian Extension Center provides support to the agricultural producers of one administrative division of Ukraine (Zaporozhye oblast) in the following areas: 1) farm restructuring (transformation of agricultural companies with collective ownership over land and property into private companies); 2) advising services (in technology of crop and animal production, finance, taxation, accounting, law business planning, decision-making support); 3) training (in technology, finance, taxation, farm management); 4) supply of information (market prices, search for business partners, etc.); 5) support to cooperatives The research projects of our Centre also provide a unique opportunity to understand the effects of social change on agricultural productivity, production efficiency, and business performance (study of farm restructuring, ownership transformation, a variety of economic and sociological research projects, construction of integrated agricultural information network in Ukraine). Could you recommend any American organization which might be interested in cooperation with our Extension centre in any one of the following areas: 1) exchange of experiences and methodologies; 2) collaboration in joint research and training programs: 3) technical assistance. Is your organization interested in cooperation with us in the above listed areas? Thank you very much for your cooperation. Hope for an early reply. Respectfully, Vlad Valentinov, Pennsylvania State University, USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 18:19:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08437 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:19:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04628 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:22:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04535 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:22:00 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id pNAJa10034 (4462); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:19:58 EDT Subject: food security To: naos@agron.iastate.edu, sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2911 This address has some interesting topics for Sanet and others interested in food production. Visit http://www.scisoc.org For example I found the following article interesting and would like to know what others think. NEW APSnet Feature: Crop Biosecurity. Prepared by N. W. Schaad, J. Shaw, A. Vidaver, J. Leach, and B.E. Erlick. They have an online discussion session where you can see what others have to say and add your opinion. Carolee Bull To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 21:15:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10542 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:15:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25681 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:40:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from curly.indy.net (curly.indy.net [199.3.65.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25666 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from richmo.indy.net (ip209-183-86-98.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.98]) by curly.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07695 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:38:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37F3AC08.4BCA@indy.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:29:28 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SANET Subject: [Fwd: Midwest Small Farm Conference] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7E0B1ACA5C2E" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2912 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7E0B1ACA5C2E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ --------------7E0B1ACA5C2E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from moe.indy.net (moe [199.3.65.9]) by postal.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22138 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:10:02 -0500 (EST) From: sbonney@iquest.net Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [209.43.20.203]) by moe.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA25867 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:09:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 26038 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 21:09:51 -0000 Received: from laf-0001-6.iquest.net (HELO default) (204.95.254.198) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 21:09:51 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990930161431.00972ac0@iquest.net> X-Sender: sbonney@iquest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:14:31 -0500 To: richmo@indy.net Subject: Midwest Small Farm Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rich, Please post this on sanet and elsewhere. If you click message and send again, then change the To: address, those damnable arrows won't appear in the forwarded message Thanks, Steve *************************************** Please distribute freely to organizations, newspapers, newsletters and other media. For more information, call (765) 463-9366 SUSTAINABLE EARTH presents the 1999 MIDWEST SMALL FARM CONFERENCE and TRADE SHOW "Profitability through Diversification" November 19 & 20 Exhibition Center Hamilton Co. 4-H Grounds Noblesville, Indiana Featuring : Joel Salatin, Sally Fallon 24 workshops to help build sustainable farming systems and community food systems. Extensive Tradeshow of goods and services for small farmers FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 19 7:30 a.m. Doors open 8:30-9:45 Workshop session 1 A Adding Value to Milk: Cheesemaking and On-Farm Bottling- Ken Heiman, Wisconsin farmer, milk bottler and cheesemaker B From Farm to Table: Building Sustainable Food Systems - Sue Wendt, Partners for Family Farms, Kentucky C Diversifying the Organic Farm- Roger Sharritt, Indiana organic farmer 10:00-11:15 Workshop session 2 A Small Fruits for the Small Farm - Bruce Bordelon, Purdue University extension specialist B Profitable Livestock Production - George Rasmussen, Michigan organic farmer C Profits from the Farm Pond - Susan Harkins, Kentucky organic farmer 11:30-12:30 Keynote Economics, Environment, and Emotion: Growing and Eating with a Conscience - Joel Salatin, Virginia farmer & author 1:30-2:45 Workshop session 3 A Relationship Marketing - Joel Salatin B Building Community with CSA- farmer panel from Indiana, Michigan & Ohio C Herbs for Diversification -Hank Huggins, Ohio organic farmer 3:00-4:15 Workshop session 4 A Marketing Specialty Crops- Chris Chmiel, Ohio farmer and entrepreneur B CSA Perspectives - CSA Farmer Panel C The Nuts & Bolts of On-Farm Research - John Hall, Wisconsin agronomist 4:30-5:30 Indiana OCIA meeting SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 20 7:30 a.m. Doors open 8:30-9:45 Workshop session 5 A A Multiple Farm CSA- Shelly Gradwell, Iowa State extension specialist B Basics of Permaculture - Beth Neff, Indiana organic farmer C Organic Hogs & Other Ways to Make Money - Ed Snavely, Ohio diversified organic farmer 10:00-11:15 Workshop session 6 A Organic Apple Production - Michael Phillips, New Hampshire organic farmer and author (The Apple Grower) B Plant Breeding on the Farm - J. J. Haapala, Oregon organic farmer C Fresh-cut Flowers and Woody Ornamentals - John Klueh, Indiana farmer 11:30-12:30 Keynote Keeping the Value-Added Down on the Farm - Sally Fallon, Washington, D.C. author 1:30-2:45 Workshop session 7 A Why Butter is Better - Sally Fallon B Insect Pests and Alternative Control Methods - Jerry Brust, Purdue University C Developing On Farm Research Projects - Teresa Maurer, ATTRA 3:00-4:15 A Why Butter is Better (pt. 2) - Sally Fallon B Writing Producer Grants - John Hall C When Trees Wear Masks: Controlling the Plum Curculio in Organic Orchards - Michael Phillips Keynote Speakers: Joel Salatin is a national leader in the development of strategies to make farms profitable. His grass based farming practices - especially pastured poultry - and relationship marketing strategies have been widely adopted by farmers building sustainable farming systems. He has authored $alad Bar Beef, Pastured Poultry Profit$, and You can Farm. Sally Fallon has examined all of the best scientific studies about the roles of fat and meat in human nutrition to arrive at some conclusions about human health and nutrition that are very different from much of the current thinking. Her book, Nourishing Traditions, is based upon her own research and experience and builds upon the work of Weston Price. Meals: Food may be purchased from the event caterer - Gunthorp's Pasturized Pork. You may bring your own food and beverage (no alcohol allowed). Location: Noblesville is located at the convergence of Indiana Highways 37, 32, and 38. The Hamilton County 4-H Fairgrounds is on Pleasant St. one block west of its intersection with SR 37. (traffic light, Quality Farm & Fleet on corner). Free Parking at fairgrounds. -- From Chicago: I-65 south to I-465 East, to I-69 and exit 5, SR 37, north to Pleasant St. -- From southern Michigan, south on I-69 to exit 19, west on SR 38 for 11 miles to SR 37, left (south) one half mile to light at Pleasant St., west to fairgrounds. -- From south, east or west of Indianapolis, I-465 to the northeast corner of Indianapolis, north on I-69 to exit 5, north on SR 37 for 5 miles to light at Pleasant St., west to fairgrounds. Lodging: (all rates listed are approximate and do not include taxes of about 10 %) Super 8, 17070 Dragonfly Lane, Noblesville, (317)776-7088, 58 rooms, rooms are blocked at $45 (any # of people). Ask for Midwest Farm for Nov 18 arrival. Reserve by Nov 11). Adjacent to the conference site. Other lodging is nearby: Fishers near I-69 and SR 37, (6 miles from fairgrounds): Holiday Inn, 9780 N By Northeast Blvd, (317) 578-9000; ($75 up); Holiday Inn Express, 9790 N By Northwest Blvd., (317) 578-2000; ($75 up) Castleton, I-69 and 82nd St. (9 miles from the conference). Dollar Inn, 8110 N Shadeland Ave., (317) 845-0049, $31 sgl, 36 dbl; Fairfield Inn 8325 Bash, (317) 577-0455, ($59 for 1 or 2 adults); Hampton Inn, 6817 E. 82nd, St. (317) 576-0220, (800) 290-4001, $79-84. Anderson, I-69 and SR 32, ( 20 miles from conference). Dollar Inn, 6325 S. Scatterfield, (765) 640-1356, ($32 for 1, $37 for 2); Economy Inn, 2400 S. Scatterfield, (765) 642-9966, $39; $44 for 2 beds; Motel 6, 5810 S. Scatterfield, (765) 642-9023; ($32 for 1, $38 for 2); Camping and RV: Pine Lakes Fishing & Camping, I-69 and SR 38 (exit 19), Pendleton, (765) 778-2697. $7.99 for tent space, $16.99 for RV includes water and elec. 11 miles from conf. Camp Nothingmuchere, 1927 W. 156th, Westfield , (317) 896-3942 (about 9 miles from conf). $16 (includes water and elect). Heated showers available. Sponsor and event organizer: Sustainable Earth, Inc., a 501(c)3, not-for-profit membership organization committed to profitable family farms through the development of sustainable farming systems and community food systems. Current projects include: The Small Farm Development Project - building marketing infrastructure to support small farm agriculture, CityFood - building a comprehensive, sustainable community food system in a depressed neighborhood of Indianapolis; Directory of Value-Added Agriculture - a resource directory for crop and live-stock strategies which support small farms and build communities; Directory of Organic Agriculture -- linking consumers and farmers with information on sources of organic and natural food. Co-Sponsors: Consortium for Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education, North Central Regional Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education program, and Farmweek Newspaper. Others to be added. Membership: Receive a quarterly newsletter-Sustainable Farming News, discounts on special events and publications. Enclosed is my membership for 12 months. ___Sustaining ($250) ___Supporting ($100) ___ Small Business ($60) ___ Family ($50) ___ Individual ($30) ___ Student ($15) Registration Fees: If paid by 11/10/99 Individual Family* 2 days ___40.00 ___55.00 1 day ___25.00 ___40.00 After 11/10/99 2 days ___45.00 ___60.00 1 day ___30.00 ___45.00 Individual members of Sustainable Earth receive a $10 discount. Those with family memberships receive a $15 discount. Submit a membership fee now and subtract the discount from your registration fees. *Family registrations include all related people living in the same household. Names of all registrants: _________________ ____________________________________ ____________________________________ ____________________________________ Address______________________________ City______________________St._________ Zip__________ Phone ( )______________ email:________________________________ Registration fees must be enclosed. Checks payable to Sustainable Earth. Mail to Sustainable Earth, 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette, IN 47906 Steve Bonney, President Sustainable Earth a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to the development of sustainable agricultural systems 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net --------------7E0B1ACA5C2E-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Sep 30 21:42:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10893 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15555 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:07:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15487 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:06:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Bagelhole1@aol.com Received: from Bagelhole1@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7CNZa01967 (4073) for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40bd2f94.252562b8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:04:56 EDT Subject: Low-tech sustainable ideas/methods To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAA15495 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2913 In a message dated 10/1/99 12:25:33 AM, owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu writes: << "What Id love from you is any email info, websites, journal articles, books, or any other reference material or literature. WEd greatly appreciate any or all info that you could send us on sustainability within small communities, especially those that may have translocated from an urban setting. >> Hi, I share similar interests, the website, http://bagelhole.org is almost all fixed up and focuses on low-tech sustainable ideas/methods. Check it out and see what you think. Regards, Tom O To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 09:05:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18296 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14594 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:12:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14486 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:09:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'emandal@pacific.net'" Subject: Jobs: Gardeners welcome! Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:09:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2914 Gardeners welcome! Really fun organic farm has 2-3 positions available for 2000 season. Approx. April-Oct, gardeners will plant/ maintain /harvest 2 acre kitchen garden which serves the needs of our environmental education, children's camp, and family camp programs. Gardening experience necessary, desire to work with lots of different folks essential, and interest in diverse projects helpful. Many other positions available. Room/board/wage provided! Deadline for most positions: February 1, 2000. For more info call 707-459-5439, email: emandal@pacific.net, write:Emandal, a Farm on a River 16500 Hearst Rd. Willits, CA 95490 or find us on the web... http://www.emandal.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 13:40:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23852 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05166 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:32:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05120 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Twittman@aol.com Received: from Twittman@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 7QBGa06003 (3998) for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:30:49 EDT Subject: Small Farm Equipment To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2915 Hi Sanet Folks, I am looking for speakers for the Ecological Farming Conference (Ecofarm) that are knowledgeable on finding and using farm equipment for small scale organic farms in the half to twenty acre range. So far I have only found one small farmer/farm equipment specialist in Pennsylvania who has a business called "Market Farm Implement" (814-443-1931). They have a fabulous catalog and soon a video of mostly two row equipment and small harvesters. Unfortunately they are unavailable to speak so I am looking for alternatives. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you, Thomas Wittman Committee for Sustainable Agriculture 8315 Hermosa Avenue Ben Lomond, California 95005 831-336-2852 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 14:36:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25304 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13136 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:42:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from quapaw.astate.edu (quapaw.astate.edu [147.97.1.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13089 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TOLTEC.astate.edu (toltec.astate.edu [147.97.7.1]) by quapaw.astate.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25666 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:45:01 -0500 Received: from TOLTEC/MAILQUEUE by TOLTEC.astate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 1 Oct 99 12:40:01 CDT Received: from MAILQUEUE by TOLTEC (Mercury 1.44); 1 Oct 99 12:39:49 CDT From: "PATRICK STEWART" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:39:39 CST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Request for Information:Farmers Markets In-reply-to: <199909301600.MAA09963@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: <2D457EA7015@TOLTEC.astate.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2916 To the list: My graduate students are working on a project concerning the development, implementation and evaluation of Farmer's Markets. At the end of this letter I have included the citations they have found and have or are ordering. If there are other suggestions, please let me know. Thank you. Patrick "Farmers' markets and the local community: Bridging the formal and informal economy" by T.A. Lyson, G.W. Gillespie, Jr. and D. Hilchey in the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, Vol. 10 No. 3 1995. "Tips on developing publicity for farm markets" by Jeff Patton in Rural Enterprise Vol. 6 No. 2 1992. "Using Customer Surveys to Promote Farmers' Markets: A Case Study" by David B. Eastwood in the Journal of Food Distribution Research Vol. 27 No. 3 1996. "Marketing farmers' markets to tourists" by D.B. Eastwood and J.R. Brooker in the Tennessee Agricultural Science, Winter 1997. "Guides for development of a farmers' market" by Laurie Hodges from the Cooperative Extension, Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, 1997. "Long range strategic plans for the Florida State Farmers' Market System: A Report" by Robert Degner from the Florida Agricultural Market Research Center, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida, 1992. We have also ordered direct marketing publications produced by the USDA. We have ordered "Regional Farmers' Markets, A Marketing and Design Study (Missouri), 1/1993" and "A Review of Little Rock's River Market Public and Farmers Market Operations, 1999." We have access to "Economic Evaluation of the Farmers' Market Nutrition Program" by R.E. Just and W. Weninger in the American Journal of Agricultural Economics Vol. 79 No. 3 1997. Patrick A. Stewart, Ph.D. Department of Political Science P.O. Box 1750 Arkansas State University State University, AR 72467 (870) 972-3048 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 15:39:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26894 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18896 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18853 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25555 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:44:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA02912 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:44:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:44:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: (FWD) The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2917 From: Peter Rosset Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture Subject: small farms study Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:26:30 -0800 Organization: Food First Small Farms More Productive than Large Farms but Threatened by Trade Agreements The Institute for Food and Development Policy/Food First and the Transnational Institute Release a New Report: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture In the Context of Global Trade Negotiations By Peter Rosset full text of the report available at: http://www.foodfirst.org/pubs/policybs/pb4.html September 14, 1999 Maastricht, Netherlands -- Small farms are more productive than large farms, yet their continued existence is threatened by international trade agreements, according to a major study released today at a United Nations conference here in Maastricht.* The Institute for Food and Development Policy, also known as "Food First," based in California, USA, and the Transnational Institute, based in The Netherlands, published the study authored by agricultural development specialist Dr. Peter Rosset. Challenging the conventional wisdom that small farms are backward and unproductive, the study shows that small farmers worldwide produce from 2 to 10 times more per unit area than do larger, corporate farmers. "In fact small farms are 'multi-functional' -- more productive, more efficient, and contribute more to economic development than do large farms," said Dr. Rosset, Executive Director of the Institute for Food and Development Policy and the author of the report. Dr. Rosset is an official delegate to the Maastricht conference, representing the Global Forum on Sustainable Food and Nutritional Security, based in Brazil. Communities surrounded by populous small farms have healthier economies than do communities surrounded by depopulated large, mechanized farms, according the study. Small farmers also take better care of natural resources, including reducing soil erosion and conserving biodiversity. Small farmers are better stewards of natural resources, safeguarding the future sustainability of agricultural production. "Despite more than a century of anti-small farmer policies in country after country, in both industrialized and third world countries," said Dr. Rosset, "small farmers not only still cling to the soil but continue to be more productive and more efficient than large, agri-business farming operations. Small farmers offer the best way to feed the world, and the only way to effectively conserve soil resources for future generations." Unfortunately the study shows that today the world's small farmers face unprecedented threats to their livelihoods, thanks to free trade agreements negotiated in recent years. "Free trade causes the prices farmers receive to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them into bankruptcy by the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest can survive, according to the study. The World Trade Organization (WTO) Agreement on Agriculture (AOA), to be negotiated in Seattle, USA, in November, 1999, is the weapon that could deal the final death blow to the world's small farmers, according to Rosset. "The U.S. Government negotiators," said Rosset, himself an American, "have as their goal for Seattle the complete liberalization of trade in farm products." Rosset, and the institutes that published his report, are issuing a call to recognize the true, multiple value of small farms, and to defeat the American government plans for the AOA. "Small farmers are a key resource for our very survival into the future," said Mr. Erik Heijmans, of the Transnational Institute, which co- published the study. "We must oppose trade agreements which place them in jeopardy." * "Cultivating Our Futures," the FAO/Netherlands Conference on the Multifunctional Character of Agriculture and Land, 12-17 September 1999, Maastricht, The Netherlands. Information at: http://www.fao.org/mfcal # # # Food First/The Institute for Food and Development Policy 398 60th Street Oakland, California 94618 USA tel: 510/654-4400 fax: 510/654-4551 foodfirst@foodfirst.org Transnational Institute Paulus Potterstraat 20 1071 DA, Amsterdam The Netherlands Tel: 31-20-6626608 Fax: 31-20-6757176 tni@tni.org Global Forum on Sustainable Food and Nutritional Security SGAN 905 Conjunto "B", Parte "A" 70.790-050 Brasilia, DF Brazil Tel: +55 61 347 4914 Fax: +55 61 347 9002 agora@tba.com.br <><><><> Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 16:04:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27465 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07231 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:12:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07151 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA11036; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:10:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Sanet" , "IFFS" Subject: Recruiting Candidates for Environmental Leadership Program Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:07:00 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2918 ENVIRONMENTAL LEADERSHIP PROGRAM -- Fellowship Announcement Application deadline: November 1, 1999 Application available at: http://www.ELPnet.org The Environmental Leadership Program (ELP) is pleased to announce the inaugural year of its annual ELP Fellowship. ELP is a non-profit initiative to promote leadership development and training opportunities for professionals who are relatively new to the environmental field. The ELP Fellowship provides intensive leadership and skills training with opportunities for mentoring, project seed money, and technical support. Ultimately, the goal of ELP is to nurture a new generation of environmental leadership that is characterized by diversity, innovative thinking, coalition building, and effective communications. Fellowship Details. The ELP Fellowship is a highly experiential and innovative national program that aims to build the leadership capacity of the environmental movement's most promising emerging professionals. Each year, a new class of twenty to thirty fellows will be chosen to receive intensive training, institutional support, and mentoring for a three-year period. Fellows will receive national recognition through the program and gain access to funding to pursue further skill training and develop new projects. ELP will provide participants with the tools, support, and experience to lead public debates about environmental issues and energize their home institutions and communities. Required Commitments. Applicants for the ELP Fellowship must commit to participating in four retreats over three years-two retreats in the first year and one retreat in each subsequent year. ELP will provide each fellow with a modest participation stipend and pay all travel costs for the retreats. While the fellowship requires regular participation throughout the year, fellows are expected to continue in their full-time jobs or studies. Upon selection, fellows must provide ELP with written acknowledgment from their employers allowing them to participate in ELP retreats and other fellowship activities that require time away from work. Becoming a Fellow Who Should Apply? ELP targets newly established environmental practitioners eager to connect their specialized work to broader environmental and social concerns. In choosing each class of fellows, ELP will bring together individuals from a broad spectrum of disciplines, professions, educational experiences, and cultural and ethnic backgrounds. The program's goal is to balance participation from academia, non-profit advocacy groups, all levels of government, and the private sector. While applicants need not be young in age, the program is designed for people who are relatively new to the environmental field with approximately three to ten years of professional or post-undergraduate experience. ELP programs do not target well-established, veteran, or mid-career professionals. Demonstrated talent for intellectual or public leadership is a prerequisite for selection. Applicants who also exhibit the ability or strong potential to work across disciplines, communicate effectively, and build support for innovation are most likely to be selected. Successful applicants will describe how the ELP Fellowship will help them develop their work, and how their future efforts will contribute to the future of the environmental movement. All applicants must provide a general overview of initiatives they might undertake with support from the ELP Activity Fund. Applicants should review the criteria and detailed information about this component of the ELP Fellowship which is available on our web site: http://www.ELPnet.org. How will applicants be evaluated? Applicants will be evaluated on: $E1 their accomplishments, background, and professional progress shown in their resume or c.v.; $E1 the recommendations of people who have worked closely with the applicant; and $E1 the clarity, breadth, and thoughtfulness of responses to the narrative questions in the fellowship application. Depending on their background, applicants will be evaluated on the basis of their initiatives, campaigns, projects, or scholarship, and their potential to stimulate and deepen public debates about key environmental issues. Selection Process Completed applications can be sent to ELP until Monday, November 1, 1999. Applicants will be notified via postcard or email that their application is complete and being processed. Each application will be reviewed by the ELP Fellowship Selection Committee and final decisions will be made at a committee meeting in early December. The committee is composed of professionals from a diverse array of disciplines, backgrounds, and institutions. Decisions will be announced and all applicants will be sent notification letters by December 15, 1999. For more detailed information and to review the ELP Fellowship Application, please log on to our web site: http://www.ELPnet.org. If you do not have access to the Internet, write us to receive an application kit. Environmental Leadership Program A project of The Tides Center P.O. Box 209198 New Haven, CT 06520 ELPnet@aol.com http://www.ELPnet.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 18:16:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29923 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13095 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:20:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13074 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (ppp27.sabin.mwt.net [156.46.75.127]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA10356 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:14:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00e401bf0c52$6bf604c0$81fb2e9c@oemcomputer> From: "Julie" To: "sanet-mg" Subject: Perdue Farms Statement on GM Corn Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:17:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2919 >From PRNewswire.com website: Perdue Farms Statement on Genetically Modified Corn SALISBURY, Md., Sept. 27 /PRNewswire/ -- The following statement is being issued to clarify recent misinformation in the media: Perdue Farms Incorporated, which handles in excess of 150 million bushels of U.S. produced grain and oilseed each year, reiterates its long standing position that it will continue to offer farmers the opportunity to market the crops they choose to grow. We also continue to be committed to meeting the needs and demands of consumers and to producing the highest quality poultry products. For additional information please contact Tita Cherrier, Director of Public Relations, at 410-860-4407. SOURCE Perdue Farms Incorporated To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 18:43:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00445 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01502 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:49:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01394 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.239 (mx3-96.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.239]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05977; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:48:08 -0500 Message-ID: <37F52184.314C@smallfarms.com> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:03:00 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Request for information: Farmers Markets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2920 Hi Patrick, Consider Jeff Ishee who has written several books on the subject. His latest is Dynamic Farmers Marketing. He would bring a slightly different, media person's style and perspective to your resources. He can be reached at: farmsted@cfw.com glenn Buy from the Farmer www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 18:53:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00598 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17109 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:25:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16999 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:25:03 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:23:44 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:23:42 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.69] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0f5f203c ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:23:32 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991001151246.00802350@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:12:46 -0500 To: Subject: Gov't Out of Control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2921 Check out http://ens.lycos.com/ens/sep99/1999L-09-30-03.html to see what happens when the government does not have enough useful work to do. With fools like this making burros of themselves, this country is becoming the laughing stock of the world. Here is a ecologically sustainable plant, supported by the Farm Bureau no less and yet the government bureacrats are pulling this. This blind arrogance of our country is going to cost us in international relations. It is time for these Rambo want to be's to stop watching their movies and go find gainful employment - Off the Public Dole. Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 19:26:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00849 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:26:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05623 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:05:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05582 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc014 (1Cust2.tnt5.tco2.da.uu.net [63.21.91.2]) by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA11907; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991001160333.009bede0@pop.iamdigex.net> X-Sender: 10005843@pop.iamdigex.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:03:33 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Suzanne DeMuth Subject: Re: farmers' markets info request In-Reply-To: <2D457EA7015@TOLTEC.astate.edu> References: <199909301600.MAA09963@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2922 There are additional citations for farmers' markets in the following: "Direct Marketing and Related Topics, January 1991 - December 1996." Compiled by Mary Gold. Quick Bibliography Series no. QB 97-02. June 1997. Contains 235 Citations in English from AGRICOLA Database. (Available/contact: http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/AFSIC_pubs/qb9702.htm, or e-mail afsic@nal.usda.gov or mgold@nal.usda.gov) "Farmer Direct Marketing Bibliography." compiled by J.V. Klotz. USDA AMS. Bibliographies and Literature of Agriculture no. 132. Nov. 1998. (Available/contact: Jennifer-Claire V. Klotz, USDA/AMS/T&M/W&AM, 1400 Independence Ave SW, Rm 2642-S, Washington DC 20250- 0269; http://www.ams.usda.gov/directmarketing) Suzanne DeMuth At 12:39 PM 10/1/99 CST, you wrote: >To the list: > >My graduate students are working on a project concerning the >development, implementation and evaluation of Farmer's Markets. At >the end of this letter I have included the citations they have found >and have or are ordering. If there are other suggestions, please let >me know. Thank you. > >Patrick > >"Farmers' markets and the local community: Bridging the formal and >informal economy" by T.A. Lyson, G.W. Gillespie, Jr. and D. Hilchey in >the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, Vol. 10 No. 3 1995. > >"Tips on developing publicity for farm markets" by Jeff Patton in >Rural Enterprise Vol. 6 No. 2 1992. > >"Using Customer Surveys to Promote Farmers' Markets: A Case Study" by >David B. Eastwood in the Journal of Food Distribution Research Vol. 27 >No. 3 1996. > >"Marketing farmers' markets to tourists" by D.B. Eastwood and J.R. >Brooker in the Tennessee Agricultural Science, Winter 1997. > >"Guides for development of a farmers' market" by Laurie Hodges from >the Cooperative Extension, Institute of Agriculture and Natural >Resources, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, 1997. > >"Long range strategic plans for the Florida State Farmers' Market >System: A Report" by Robert Degner from the Florida Agricultural >Market Research Center, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, >University of Florida, 1992. > >We have also ordered direct marketing publications produced by the >USDA. We have ordered "Regional Farmers' Markets, A Marketing and >Design Study (Missouri), 1/1993" and "A Review of Little Rock's River >Market Public and Farmers Market Operations, 1999." > >We have access to "Economic Evaluation of the Farmers' Market >Nutrition Program" by R.E. Just and W. Weninger in the American >Journal of Agricultural Economics Vol. 79 No. 3 1997. > >Patrick A. Stewart, Ph.D. >Department of Political Science >P.O. Box 1750 >Arkansas State University >State University, AR 72467 >(870) 972-3048 > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Henry A Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Rd Ste 117 Greenbelt MD 20770-1551 Phone: 301-441-8777 Fax: 301-220-0164 Web site: www.hawiaa.org Please place my first name somewhere in the Subject area of any reply to this message, as our email account is shared by several people. Thank you. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 22:49:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02584 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:49:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25631 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:27:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from steele.ohsu.edu (steele.ohsu.edu [137.53.1.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25619 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:27:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lippoldt@localhost) by steele.ohsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA04279; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:26:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Debra Lippoldt To: PATRICK STEWART cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Request for Information:Farmers Markets In-Reply-To: <2D457EA7015@TOLTEC.astate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2923 Hi- You might also want to contact Andy Fisher at the Community Food Security Coalition (they have a web page) to get an interesting look at Farmers Markets and Low Income Neighborhoods. (Sorry, I don't have the exact title at my fingertips.) Deb Lippoldt On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, PATRICK STEWART wrote: > To the list: > > My graduate students are working on a project concerning the > development, implementation and evaluation of Farmer's Markets. At > the end of this letter I have included the citations they have found > and have or are ordering. If there are other suggestions, please let > me know. Thank you. > > Patrick > > "Farmers' markets and the local community: Bridging the formal and > informal economy" by T.A. Lyson, G.W. Gillespie, Jr. and D. Hilchey in > the American Journal of Alternative Agriculture, Vol. 10 No. 3 1995. > > "Tips on developing publicity for farm markets" by Jeff Patton in > Rural Enterprise Vol. 6 No. 2 1992. > > "Using Customer Surveys to Promote Farmers' Markets: A Case Study" by > David B. Eastwood in the Journal of Food Distribution Research Vol. 27 > No. 3 1996. > > "Marketing farmers' markets to tourists" by D.B. Eastwood and J.R. > Brooker in the Tennessee Agricultural Science, Winter 1997. > > "Guides for development of a farmers' market" by Laurie Hodges from > the Cooperative Extension, Institute of Agriculture and Natural > Resources, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, 1997. > > "Long range strategic plans for the Florida State Farmers' Market > System: A Report" by Robert Degner from the Florida Agricultural > Market Research Center, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, > University of Florida, 1992. > > We have also ordered direct marketing publications produced by the > USDA. We have ordered "Regional Farmers' Markets, A Marketing and > Design Study (Missouri), 1/1993" and "A Review of Little Rock's River > Market Public and Farmers Market Operations, 1999." > > We have access to "Economic Evaluation of the Farmers' Market > Nutrition Program" by R.E. Just and W. Weninger in the American > Journal of Agricultural Economics Vol. 79 No. 3 1997. > > Patrick A. Stewart, Ph.D. > Department of Political Science > P.O. Box 1750 > Arkansas State University > State University, AR 72467 > (870) 972-3048 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 23:37:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03012 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24543 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:11:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from oden.morgan.net ([204.214.72.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24423 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from morgan.net (ppp-1-35.morgan.net [204.214.72.67]) by oden.morgan.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28191; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 22:10:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37F5775C.2CFBBC0F@morgan.net> Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 22:09:17 -0500 From: Read-Massey Organic Farm Reply-To: organic@morgan.net Organization: Read-Massey Organic Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD ezn/58/n (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PATRICK STEWART CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Request for Information:Farmers Markets References: <2D457EA7015@TOLTEC.astate.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A71150B70C73F176AA95B5C3" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2924 --------------A71150B70C73F176AA95B5C3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > My graduate students are working on a project concerning the > development, implementation and evaluation of Farmer's Markets. Harriet Festing's Farmers' Markets An American Success Story published by e'co-logic books 1998, might be helpful. You might contact Harriet at Wye College, University of London, wye, Ashford, Kent TN25 5AH or H. Festing@wye.ac.uk. Liz Read-Massey --------------A71150B70C73F176AA95B5C3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
     
     
     

    My graduate students are working on a project concerning the
    development, implementation and evaluation of Farmer's Markets.

    Harriet Festing's Farmers' Markets An American Success Story published by e'co-logic books 1998,  might be helpful.  You might contact Harriet  at Wye College, University of London, wye, Ashford, Kent TN25 5AH  or H. Festing@wye.ac.uk.

    Liz Read-Massey
      --------------A71150B70C73F176AA95B5C3-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 1 23:41:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03043 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19895 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:07:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.121]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA19868 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.greenbuilder.com ([216.171.28.126] verified) by mail2.greenbuilder.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.7) with ESMTP id S.0000187339 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 1999 22:01:37 +0000 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Reply-To: Judy_Kew@greenbuilder.com (Judy Kew) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 02:11:36 GMT Subject: Re: Gov't Out of Control Message-ID: <3165716479.19077@greenbuilder.com> In-Reply-To: <199910012210.SAA15085@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> References: <199910012210.SAA15085@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Organization: Sustainable Sources X-Gateway: FirstClass Gateway for SMTP/NNTP (Mac68K) version 1.02 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2925 You've wet my appetite. I am sure I agree with you, but what you refer to could be anything at all, and I don't have website access to find out. Is there a chance you can give me a hint as to what these particular govt shenanigans are? Many thanks, Judy Kew --- > >Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:12:46 -0500 >From: mmiller@pcsia.com >Subject: Gov't Out of Control > >Check out http://ens.lycos.com/ens/sep99/1999L-09-30-03.html to see what >happens when the government does not have enough useful work to do. With >fools like this making burros of themselves, this country is becoming the >laughing stock of the world. Here is a ecologically sustainable plant, >supported by the Farm Bureau no less and yet the government bureacrats are >pulling this. This blind arrogance of our country is going to cost us in >international relations. It is time for these Rambo want to be's to stop >watching their movies and go find gainful employment - Off the Public Dole. > Mike Miller -- Green Homes For Sale: http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/ Green Building Pros: http://www.greenbuilder.com/directory/ Calendar: http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/ Bookstore: http://www.greenbuilder.com/bookstore To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 2 00:24:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03372 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA26159 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26085 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03182 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA11690 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:01:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Gov't Out of Control In-Reply-To: <3165716479.19077@greenbuilder.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2926 Here's the text from the webpage: http://ens.lycos.com/ens/sep99/1999L-09-30-03.html <> ENVIRONMENT NEWS SERVICE DEA Drug Hawks Swoop Down on Birdseed DETROIT, Michigan, September 30, 1999 (ENS) - The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) has seized a tractor trailer of sterilized Canadian hemp seed on its way to a large U.S. company that has been selling hemp birdseed blends legally for years. Following the August 9 seizure, U.S. Customs and the DEA demanded that Kenex, Canada's largest producer and processor of industrial hemp products, recall previous shipments of other hemp products such as oil, granola bars, horse bedding and animal feed. Kenex is based in Paincourt, Ontario, 60 miles from Detroit. U.S. Customs is threatening nearly $500,000 in fines against Kenex if the recalled products are not redelivered to Detroit Customs in the next few days. These fines are in addition to the fines and possible criminal charges that may be laid in relation to the bird seed load itself. A 30 day extension request to clarify the situation was denied by U.S. Customs. The agencies have taken these actions even though all of the products are exempt under the U.S. Controlled Substances Act, and many have been sold in the United States for 60 years. There has never a time when sterilized hemp seed or oil or meal was illegal. The DEA, after repeated requests, refuses to provide Kenex with any legal basis for the confiscation. Kenex's president, Jean Laprise says, "Kenex, along with many other U.S. companies are suffering irreparable damage due to the illegal actions taken by the DEA and U.S. Customs. It seems the DEA could be spending the U.S. taxpayer's drug war money in better ways than chasing after bird seed and horse bedding." Laprise says, "All the proper documentation has been supplied to Customs in the past in accordance with our custom broker's instructions. Kenex has always acted in good faith and has never violated any U.S. laws. Our legal counsel has advised us that the DEA and U.S. Customs are acting in clear violation of U.S. laws as well as NAFTA." Industrial hemp has no drug qualities and is grown in 32 countries including Canada, France, Germany, and England. The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), mentions hemp as a strategic commodity. Currently, French and German hempseed products are still entering the United States under the same tariff code without problems. Kenex is in the process of preparing the paperwork to file a complaint under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Hemp foods are typically made from sterilized seed like that seized from Kenex. It is impossible for the seed to ever contain any tetra hydro cannabinol (THC), the psychoactive component in marijuana, which is produced in the flowering tops of the female Cannabis Sativa L. plant. The THC content in the fiber, leaf or flower of the industrial hemp plant is less than one percent. By contrast, the THC content of the Cannabis Sativa bred for marijuana production is around 10 percent. Kenex's western U.S. broker and importer of hempseed products is Nutiva, a Sebastopol, California based company. Nutiva has over 700 natural food stores, manufacturers and restaurants utilizing hempseed. Nutiva's hempseed bar, made with sunflower, hemp, flax and pumpkin seeds and honey, has just surpassed 100,000 units sales, making it the top selling hemp food in the U.S. John Roulac, president and founder of Nutiva, states, "People love the nutty, chewy taste of our hempseed bars. Hempseed is rich in protein, vitamin E and the heart healthy Omega 3 are an added bonus." The current seizures, recalls and summons are in effect shutting off the supply of hempseeds for this growing market. If the markets are shut down in the U.S., American farmers future markets for hemp products will be curtailed by their own federal government, Roulac says. Roulac, a board member of the North American Industrial Hemp Council and who has also written three books on industrial hemp, finds it ironic that the federal government is serving him a summons for "Marjiuana related products." Industrial hemp is not marijuana, he emphasizes. "If you smoke it you get a headache. If you smoke more you get a bigger headache." The DEA is required by law to report to Congress each year a list of drug producing nations and Canada is not on the list. "The DEA is either lying to Congress or admitting industrial hemp is not a drug crop," Roulac says. One of Nutiva's customers is Coup Restaurant in New York City. Coup's executive chef Kevin Roth, said, "Our hempseed crusted tuna is our best-selling dish on the menu. To say we are serving a controlled substance is outlandish." The restaurant is now purchasing this ingredient from other hempseed vendors. Kenex initiated its research program on industrial hemp in 1995 in cooperation with Ridgetown College of University of Guelph in Ontario. A research license was granted by Health Canada to proceed with the program. The scope of the project was expanded in 1996 making it the largest hemp research project in Canada. 1997 marked the beginning of the legalization of commercial hemp production in Canada with the passing of Bill C-8. This encouraged Kenex to expand their acreage of hemp as well as purchase land, buildings, and some equipment to start a processing facility. 1998 was the first year commercial production and processing of industrial hemp in Canada. The states of Minnesota, North Dakota and Hawaii have all approved the cultivation of industrial hemp, and the legislators in Illinois, Montana, Virginia and California have approved resolutions endorsing the recommercialization and growing of industrial hemp. Environment News Service (ENS) 1999. All Rights Reserved. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 2 20:57:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13051 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05368 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:33:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05344 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.18] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:27:12 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 18:23:40 -0400 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1325 From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991003002712961.AAI146@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.18]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2927 Good Earth Publications Good Earth Farm 1702 Mountain View Road Buena Vista, VA 24416, USA phone & fax: (540) 261-8775 -- ---------- >From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu (sanet-mg-digest) >To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1325 >Date: Fri, Oct 1, 1999, 4:09 PM > > Please distribute freely to organizations, > newspapers, newsletters and other media. > For more information, call (765) 463-9366 > > SUSTAINABLE EARTH > presents the > 1999 MIDWEST SMALL > FARM CONFERENCE > and TRADE SHOW > "Profitability through Diversification" > > November 19 & 20 > Exhibition Center > Hamilton Co. 4-H Grounds > Noblesville, Indiana > > Featuring : Joel Salatin, Sally Fallon > > 24 workshops to help build sustainable > farming systems and community food > systems. Extensive Tradeshow of goods > and services for small farmers > > FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 19 > 7:30 a.m. Doors open > 8:30-9:45 Workshop session 1 > A Adding Value to Milk: Cheesemaking and > On-Farm Bottling- Ken Heiman, Wisconsin > farmer, milk bottler and cheesemaker > B From Farm to Table: Building Sustainable > Food Systems - Sue Wendt, Partners for Family > Farms, Kentucky > C Diversifying the Organic Farm- Roger Sharritt, > Indiana organic farmer > > 10:00-11:15 Workshop session 2 > A Small Fruits for the Small Farm - Bruce Bordelon, > Purdue University extension specialist > B Profitable Livestock Production - George Rasmussen, > Michigan organic farmer > C Profits from the Farm Pond - Susan Harkins, > Kentucky organic farmer > > 11:30-12:30 Keynote > Economics, Environment, and Emotion: Growing and > Eating with a Conscience - Joel Salatin, Virginia farmer > & author > > 1:30-2:45 Workshop session 3 > A Relationship Marketing - Joel Salatin > B Building Community with CSA- farmer panel from > Indiana, Michigan & Ohio > C Herbs for Diversification -Hank Huggins, Ohio > organic farmer > > 3:00-4:15 Workshop session 4 > A Marketing Specialty Crops- > Chris Chmiel, Ohio farmer and entrepreneur > B CSA Perspectives - CSA Farmer Panel > C The Nuts & Bolts of On-Farm Research - John Hall, > Wisconsin agronomist > > 4:30-5:30 Indiana OCIA meeting > > SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 20 > 7:30 a.m. Doors open > 8:30-9:45 Workshop session 5 > A A Multiple Farm CSA- Shelly Gradwell, > Iowa State extension specialist > B Basics of Permaculture - Beth Neff, Indiana > organic farmer > C Organic Hogs & Other Ways to Make Money > - - Ed Snavely, Ohio diversified organic farmer > > 10:00-11:15 Workshop session 6 > A Organic Apple Production - Michael Phillips, > New Hampshire organic farmer and author > (The Apple Grower) > B Plant Breeding on the Farm - J. J. Haapala, > Oregon organic farmer > C Fresh-cut Flowers and Woody Ornamentals > - - John Klueh, Indiana farmer > > 11:30-12:30 Keynote > Keeping the Value-Added Down on the Farm > - - Sally Fallon, Washington, D.C. author > > 1:30-2:45 Workshop session 7 > A Why Butter is Better - Sally Fallon > B Insect Pests and Alternative Control Methods > - - Jerry Brust, Purdue University > C Developing On Farm Research Projects > - - Teresa Maurer, ATTRA > > 3:00-4:15 > A Why Butter is Better (pt. 2) - Sally Fallon > B Writing Producer Grants - John Hall > C When Trees Wear Masks: Controlling the Plum > Curculio in Organic Orchards - Michael Phillips > > Keynote Speakers: Joel Salatin is a national leader > in the development of strategies to make farms profitable. > His grass based farming practices - especially pastured > poultry - and relationship marketing strategies have been > widely adopted by farmers building sustainable farming > systems. He has authored $alad Bar Beef, Pastured > Poultry Profit$, and You can Farm. > Sally Fallon has examined all of the best scientific studies > about the roles of fat and meat in human nutrition to arrive > at some conclusions about human health and nutrition that > are very different from much of the current thinking. Her > book, Nourishing Traditions, is based upon her own > research and experience and builds upon the work of > Weston Price. > > Meals: Food may be purchased from the event caterer - > Gunthorp's Pasturized Pork. You may bring your own > food and beverage (no alcohol allowed). > > Location: Noblesville is located at the convergence of > Indiana Highways 37, 32, and 38. The Hamilton County > 4-H Fairgrounds is on Pleasant St. one block west of its > intersection with SR 37. (traffic light, Quality Farm & Fleet > on corner). Free Parking at fairgrounds. > -- From Chicago: I-65 south to I-465 East, to I-69 and > exit 5, SR 37, north to Pleasant St. > -- From southern Michigan, south on I-69 to exit 19, west > on SR 38 for 11 miles to SR 37, left (south) one half mile > to light at Pleasant St., west to fairgrounds. > - -- From south, east or west of Indianapolis, I-465 to the > northeast corner of Indianapolis, north on I-69 to exit 5, > north on SR 37 for 5 miles to light at Pleasant St., west to > fairgrounds. > > Lodging: (all rates listed are approximate and do not include > taxes of about 10 %) > Super 8, 17070 Dragonfly Lane, Noblesville, (317)776-7088, > 58 rooms, rooms are blocked at $45 (any # of people). Ask for > Midwest Farm for Nov 18 arrival. Reserve by Nov 11). Adjacent > to the conference site. > Other lodging is nearby: > Fishers near I-69 and SR 37, (6 miles from > fairgrounds): Holiday Inn, 9780 N By Northeast Blvd, > (317) 578-9000; ($75 up); Holiday Inn Express, 9790 N By > Northwest Blvd., (317) 578-2000; ($75 up) > Castleton, I-69 and 82nd St. (9 miles from the conference). > Dollar Inn, 8110 N Shadeland Ave., (317) 845-0049, > $31 sgl, 36 dbl; Fairfield Inn 8325 Bash, (317) 577-0455, > ($59 for 1 or 2 adults); Hampton Inn, 6817 E. 82nd, St. > (317) 576-0220, (800) 290-4001, $79-84. > Anderson, I-69 and SR 32, ( 20 miles from conference). > Dollar Inn, 6325 S. Scatterfield, (765) 640-1356, ($32 for 1, > $37 for 2); Economy Inn, 2400 S. Scatterfield, (765) > 642-9966, $39; $44 for 2 beds; Motel 6, 5810 S. > Scatterfield, (765) 642-9023; ($32 for 1, $38 for 2); > > Camping and RV: > Pine Lakes Fishing & Camping, I-69 and SR 38 (exit 19), > Pendleton, (765) 778-2697. $7.99 for tent space, > $16.99 for RV includes water and elec. 11 miles from conf. > Camp Nothingmuchere, 1927 W. 156th, Westfield , > (317) 896-3942 (about 9 miles from conf). $16 (includes > water and elect). Heated showers available. > > Sponsor and event organizer: Sustainable Earth, Inc., a > 501(c)3, not-for-profit membership organization committed > to profitable family farms through the development of > sustainable farming systems and community food systems. > Current projects include: The Small Farm Development > Project - building marketing infrastructure to support small > farm agriculture, CityFood - building a comprehensive, > sustainable community food system in a depressed > neighborhood of Indianapolis; Directory of Value-Added > Agriculture - a resource directory for crop and live-stock > strategies which support small farms and build communities; > Directory of Organic Agriculture -- linking consumers and > farmers with information on sources of organic and natural food. > > Co-Sponsors: > Consortium for Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education, > North Central Regional Sustainable Agriculture Research & > Education program, and Farmweek Newspaper. Others to be added. > > Membership: Receive a quarterly newsletter-Sustainable Farming > News, discounts on special events and publications. > Enclosed is my membership for 12 months. > ___Sustaining ($250) > ___Supporting ($100) > ___ Small Business ($60) > ___ Family ($50) > ___ Individual ($30) > ___ Student ($15) > > Registration Fees: > If paid by 11/10/99 > Individual Family* > 2 days ___40.00 ___55.00 > 1 day ___25.00 ___40.00 > After 11/10/99 > 2 days ___45.00 ___60.00 > 1 day ___30.00 ___45.00 > Individual members of Sustainable Earth receive a > $10 discount. Those with family memberships receive > a $15 discount. Submit a membership fee now and > subtract the discount from your registration fees. > *Family registrations include all related > people living in the same household. > Names of all registrants: _________________ > ____________________________________ > ____________________________________ > ____________________________________ > Address______________________________ > City______________________St._________ > Zip__________ Phone ( )______________ > email:________________________________ > Registration fees must be enclosed. Checks payable > to Sustainable Earth. Mail to Sustainable Earth, 100 > Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette, IN 47906 > > > > Steve Bonney, President > Sustainable Earth > a 501(c)3 not-for-profit dedicated to the development of sustainable > agricultural systems > 100 Georgton Ct., W. Lafayette IN 47906 > tel (765)463-9366; fax (765)497-0164; email sbonney@iquest.net > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 2 21:01:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13088 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 21:01:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05381 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:33:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05367 for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.18] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:27:21 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 19:13:28 -0400 Subject: Farmers Market publications From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991003002721593.AAM146@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.18]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2928 >From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu (sanet-mg-digest) >To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1325 >Date: Fri, Oct 1, 1999, 4:09 PM > > To the list: > > My graduate students are working on a project concerning the > development, implementation and evaluation of Farmer's Markets. At > the end of this letter I have included the citations they have found > and have or are ordering. If there are other suggestions, please let > me know. Thank you. Hi Patrick, you might check out my book BACKYARD MARKET GARDENING available from me or from your local library. Also Jeff Ishee wrote DYNAMIC FARMERS MARKETING, and Eric Gibson wrote SEll WHAT YOU SOW. These are all great resources. All three are being re-written and up-dated this year, but most of the information in the first issues is timeless. Regards, Andy Lee, Director Good Earth Farm and School 1702 Mountain View Road Buena Vista, Virginia 24416 Phone and Fax: 540-261-8775 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 3 15:47:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20362 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12346 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:23:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12335 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16421 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 15:21:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA15586; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm5-27.nidlink.com [216.18.141.34]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA11359; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910031921.MAA11359@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 12:33:49 -0700 To: , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Output Trait Yield Drag Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2929 The September 27, 1999 "Feedstuffs" contains a long article entitled "GMO corn has impact on feed consumption." The article is by a team of researchers from Iowa State led by Phil Baumel. Table 6 reports "Percent yield drag" for several high-oil corns tested in Iowa State University plots from 1995-1998 between conventional hybrids and high-oil varieties. The percent yield drag by year, directly from the table, was: 1995 -- 4% 1996 -- 16% 1997 -- 4% 1998 -- 13 Four-year average -- 9% They further state the average added seed cost for high-oil varieties was about $0.12 per bushel harvested. This cost estimate includes the premium paid for the seed, the yield drag, and the higher seeding rates required. Hence, growers would need at least a $0.12 premium to break even relative to growing conventional corn. Moreover, the authors point out this assumes no cost for segregation and identity-preservation. I share this data not to question the possibility that high-oil varieties can or do deliver net economic benefits, but to simply reinforce the fact that most modifications of plants that result in a substantial change in the content of some desirable, basic (or newly introduced) component of the plant come at some physiological cost to the plant, and that yield drag is one manifestation of such costs. This general rule applies equally to classical plant breeding and GMOs, although there is some evidence that yields and performance may be more erratic and unstable in the case of some GMO varieties. Apparently, certain genes inserted into some elite varieties tend to not be as stable as once hoped. As a result, plants can experience unanticipated developmental or immune system problems in response to certain combinations of environmental factors and pest pressure. Understanding and overcoming the sources of such instability in gene expression remains a major, ongoing challenge for genetic engineers and seed companies, and an area where new genetic techniques, markers, and genomics will surely make a big difference. I am aware of a study done at Iowa State that takes the high-oil corn example the next step, assessing the net economic costs and benefits after all the various adjustments and price responses occur in the livestock feed industry. I will post a summary in due course and would welcome hearing of other such analyses at other institutions. chuck Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 02:00:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25633 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 02:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16574 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 01:29:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16570 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 01:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04795; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 22:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:46:00 -0700 To: SAED-SHARE-L@cornell.edu From: Misha Subject: 2,4,5-T Cc: SANET-mg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2930 Howdy, all-- Zbynek Ulcak asked what 2,4,5-T stands for. Certainly NOT an off-topic question for any of us engaged in sustag education! This is exactly the kind of information we all should be prepared to answer on the spot or at a moment's notice. Because chemicals like this are among the reasons we do what we do. 2,4,5-T is the abbreviation for 2,4,5-Trichlorophenol. CAS (Chemical Abstract) # 95-95-4 http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/1895.pdf Or for 2,4,5-Trichlorophenoxyacetic acid, CAS # 93-76-5, which photodegrades to the compound above, and others. http://www.speclab.com/compound/c93765.htm (And there may be other related compounds...these were the two I found most often in various CAS tables.) Here is the Environmental Defense Fund's "Scorecard" chemical profile: http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=93-76-5 You may have trouble with that URL--if so, go to http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/index.tcl and search on the name (2,4,5-T). The EDF site is great, except for geeky bells and whistles, like Java--which eats bandwidth and slows or breaks things down for people with lower-end interfaces or slow Internet access. Here's EXTOXNET's poop: http://ace.orst.edu/cgi-bin/mfs/01/pips/24-D.htm?71#mfs Please note that some of the EXTOXNET stuff dates to 1980. I.e., the "good old days" for the ag chemical folks, before irritating folks started doing things like questioning the assumptions behind toxicological testing. For some reason, the PANNA PESTIS database wouldn't give me results on the search term 2,4,5-T or the full compound names above. http://www.panna.org Historically, in this century, the compound was most notorious for being a widely used post-emergence herbicide...contaminated with a dioxin (2,3,7,8- tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin [2,3,7,8-TCDD]) isomer. 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D were combined to make a defoliant, mixed with kerosene or diesel fuel, used to denude Vietnam of its greenery (as "Agent Orange"). It was found to be contaminated with dioxin, and implicated not only in that environmental and health disaster, but suspected of effects on the American GIs who were exposed to it as well. And perhaps even passed along to their children. Sufficient evidence exists that there are links between Agent Orange exposure and soft tissue sarcoma, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, Hodgkin's disease, chloracne, and porphyria cutanea tarda. Vic observed that >There were a number of cases of Spina Bifida in children >of Agricultural dept officers who were using chemicals. What appears to be higher rates of Spina Bifida among the children of Vietnam vets exposed to Agent Orange has come out of CDC and other research. Though highly conservative organizations like the Cato Institute do all they can to blow that out of the water. We can't have citizens claiming that they've been injured by products and technologies, can we? I mean, if so, we might all forget that the American Way of Life as sold to us in the last half of the 20th century was a hip/hype modern overwrought industrial PR vision. If that were the case, folks could start believing once again in outdated stuff from hundreds of years ago about Tea Parties and recreating ineffective governments and referendum and recall, etc., that they learned through subversive channels like public education, truly free press, the corner bar/diner, and talking to each other. 2,4-D is a phenoxyaliphatic/phenoxyacetic herbicide. This foliar herbicide is an auxin growth regulator. It moves primarily from the leaf of the plant to meristems and other plant parts and disrupts basic cell biochemistry. If I'm not mistaken--could someone please check me on this?--2,4,5-T has the same mode of action. As Vic pointed out, it is a hormone disruptor, and also can disrupt protein synthesis. Here are some photos of what 2,4-D can do if "misapplied" or drifted: http://www.mes.umn.edu/Documents/D/C/Other/3832[p01-10].html I certainly would love to hear someone explain how these growth regulators--that disrupt metabolic cycles in such a broad range of plants--can't have any effect on other forms of life. I've got some evolutionary thoughts percolating on this topic...which I'll share as soon as I can articulate them. Zbynek, Vic, others, I have a story off-list about 2,4-D; contact me if interested. Here's a toxicological profile for dioxin from the US Public Health Service's Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). http://www2.inetdirect.net/~ecoindy/chems/dioxin.html peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wash your hands after using any pesticide product. --Dow Elanco To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 10:01:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29862 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27084 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:31:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27023 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04843 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA13107; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:29:54 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma012107; Mon, 4 Oct 99 08:29:01 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:29:00 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF51@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Charles Benbrook'" Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Output Trait Yield Drag Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:28:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2931 Chuck, > The September 27, 1999 "Feedstuffs" contains a long > article entitled "GMO corn has impact on feed consumption." > ....Table 6 reports "Percent yield drag" for several high-oil > corns tested in Iowa State University.... The high-oil corn varieties currently marketed are not transgenic or genetically engineered in the sense usually conveyed by the the term "GMO." They are derived from a long-term recurrent selection project at the University of Illinois, a type of "conventional" breeding. What is unique (and risky) about most varieties of high oil corn is the use of a topcross pollinator to directly insert the trait into the grain right in the farmers field. This allows the use of agronomically inferior varieties of corn as pollinators, the seed of which is mixed with an agronomically sound, intentionally sterile hybrid. The extreme, grain-trait-contributor varieties, if ploughed into the conventional pure-line breeding method, produce many undesirable characteristics. Topcross is an innovative attempt to have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too, to obtain a useful grain trait, while avoiding the agronomic drag that it (or associated genes) would cause in regular corn breeding. Also, this approach has some big logistical benefits in terms of reliable seed supply and time-to-market for new varieties. > I share this data not to question the possibility that high-oil > varieties can or do deliver net economic benefits, but to simply > reinforce the fact that most modifications of plants that result > in a substantial change in the content of some desirable, basic > (or newly introduced) component of the plant come at some > physiological cost to the plant, and that yield drag is > one manifestation of such costs. But high-oil corn is not a good example. In this case, yield-drag (for want of a better term) is mostly caused by failure to achieve adequate pollination of the sterile hybrid in the mix. Sometimes environmental factors cause the high-oil pollinator to flower at a slightly different time than the sterile grain parent, reducing yield. It is not a subtle physiological effect. > As a result, plants can experience unanticipated > developmental or immune system problems in response to > certain combinations of environmental factors and pest > pressure. Understanding and overcoming the sources of > such instability in gene expression remains a major, > ongoing challenge for genetic engineers and seed companies.. Most of this action takes place inside the seed company before the new variety is released. Trying to do anything new genetically (transgenic or not) produces 99.9% garbage. Only a tiny sliver of truly better (we hope!) products get through all the internal screening. IMO both the seed industry and the small-farmer community have a lot to gain in the decommodification of grain. I think the development of specialty grain products, perhaps by the topcross method, or by regular breeding is a good thing. The unique challenges that some of these new technologies create, may provide good niches for particular environments and special kinds of TLC that smaller farmers can provide. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 10:17:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00137 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02107 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:46:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02024 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA00681; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:12:06 GMT Message-ID: <37F8A7A0.3D486122@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:12:01 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: FACTOIDS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2932 Thought I'd pass along some interesting, but maybe not so trivial little bits of info. Son of Richard ------------------------------------------------------ Tech Tip from the NRCS Science and Technology Deputy Area Here are some fascinating "factoids" from the National Soil Survey Center that show why soil is such an important resource. Be sure to share them! Your contact is Stan Anderson on (402) 437-5357. * Shrinking and swelling of some kinds of soil damage buildings, roads, and other structures. Repairing this damage costs our Nation more each year than repairing the total damage from hurricanes, tornadoes, and floods. * The tips of small plant roots move through the soil with a twisting screwlike motion. Mature trees can have as many as 5 million active root tips. * A single spade full of rich garden soil contains more species of organisms than can be found above ground in the entire Amazon rain forest. * Although the soil surface appears solid, air moves freely in and out of it. The air in the upper 8 inches of a well-drained soil is completely renewed about every hour. * The plants growing in a 2-acre wheat field can have more than 30,000 miles of roots, greater than the circumference of the Earth. * The wonderful "earthy" smell of newly plowed ground is believed to result from chemicals produced by micro-organisms. One of these chemicals, called geosmin, is produced by actinomycetes, organisms that have some properties of both bacteria and fungi. * About 10 percent of the world's land is used to grow plants and to feed either animals or humans. About 20 percent of the land in the United States is used to grow crops. * Soil can act as either a sink or a source of greenhouse gases. An estimated 30 percent of the carbon dioxide, 70 percent of the methane, and 90 percent of the nitrous oxide released to the atmosphere each year pass through the soil. * Worldwide, an estimated 25 percent of the soils used for agriculture are being degraded at an unacceptable rate. * The American Midwest has the largest area of Prime Farmland soils in the world. Other large areas are in South America and in Eastern Europe and Russia. * In the spring of 1934, a dust storm originating in the Great Plains carried an estimated 200 million tons of soil to the Northeastern United States and out to sea. This storm caused "muddy rains" in New York and "black snows" in Vermont. * In 1950, there was more than half an acre of grain land for each person on earth. By 1990, there was less than one-third acre per person. By 2030, there will be only one-fifth acre per person. * At field capacity, the amount of water available for plant growth ranges from less than 5 to as much as 50 percent, with an average of about 15 percent. * It takes about 4,000 to 6,000 pounds of crop residue per year to maintain the content of organic matter in a soil. * Modern farming practices that minimize soil disturbance (plowing) and return plant residues to the soil, such as no-till farming and crop rotations, are slowly rebuilding the Nation's stock of soil organic matter. * Of the carbon returned to the soil as plant residue, about 5 to 15 percent become tied up in the bodies of organisms and 60 to 75 percent is respired as carbon dioxide back to the atmosphere. Only 10 to 25 percent is converted to humus in the soil. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 10:22:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00232 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07055 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:53:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06920 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA00701; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:18:04 GMT Message-ID: <37F8A90A.405794EA@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:18:03 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: General Information Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2933 The following items were taken from an NRCS weekly e-newsletter Son of Richard Agricultural Total Maximum Daily Loads Workshop/Conservation 2000 Conference New Orleans, Louisiana December 14, 1999 (Workshop); December 15-17, 1999 (Conference) For information, check the web at , or call (765) 494-9555. March 2000 Sustainable Agriculture Coming of Age in the Year 2000 Portland, Oregon March 7-9, 2000 Innovative agricultural techniques, scientific research, networking, visions of the future, and examples of successful sustainable agriculture. Sponsored by USDA Western Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education, with contributions from land-grant universities and the Federal sustainable agriculture effort. Check the web site at Global Sustainability Conference Springfield, Illinois March 28-29, 2000. Carbon sequestration and ecological practices in agriculture and forestry, global warming, water quality, bio-energy, soil health, world food security, production agriculture, and ecological economics. Sponsored by the Gallatin County Soil & Water Conservation District and the Shawnee RC&D Council. E-mail: To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 10:35:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00551 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09176 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:55:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from helios.hampshire.edu (root@helios.hampshire.edu [192.33.12.140]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09162 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisa (dhcppc31.hampshire.edu [172.20.23.31]) by helios.hampshire.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA28741 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991004100031.007cd2d0@crocker.com> X-Sender: earthspn@crocker.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:00:31 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Mark Subject: Organic and nutrition In-Reply-To: <199910012009.QAA07095@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2934 Hi, I can't recall whether this has been addressed in this forum before or not...but an organic farmer I am working with recalls a federal study which found that organic food is superior in some nutrients to conventional food. She says she recalls that some nutrients were in the hundreds and even thousands of percent greater in organic food. Does anyone know if this study exists and where to get a copy? Thanks. Mark ---------------------------------------------------- Community Involved in Sustaining Agriculture (CISA) An independent non-profit organization. Check out our web site!!! http://www.buylocalfood.com 893 West Street Amherst MA 01002-5001 T: 413-559-5338 F: 413-559-5404 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 11:49:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01938 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14385 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:07:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14353 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:06:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'Jonathon'" Subject: FW: Peace Corps field work opportunity Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:05:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2935 -----Original Message----- From: Landeck, Jonathon [mailto:jlandeck@peacecorps.gov] Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 10:07 AM To: 'Andy Clark' Subject: Peace Corps field work opportunity > The Center for Field Assistance and Applied Research at Peace > Corps/Washington is soliciting interest from prospective individual > contractors to field test a guide to participatory learning methodologies > and develop a complementary training module. The activity is expected to > occur during a four-month period (Nov99-Mar00). Interested individuals > should send their statement of qualifications (resume) in electronic > format to: > > Jonathon Landeck > Environment Program Specialist > Peace Corps/Washington > > email: jlandeck@peacecorps.gov > tel: (202) 692-2652 > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 12:28:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03091 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:28:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00124 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:45:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00090 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07636 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:43:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA22612; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm5-37.nidlink.com [216.18.141.44]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA12657; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910041543.IAA12657@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:55:32 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Question re Actinomycetes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2936 I recently read that actinomycetes have some properties of both bacteria and fungi. I would appreciate any of the molecular or soil biologists among us to share their thoughts re what this might mean re the likelihood of horizontal gene transfer to actinomycetes from exposure to the biotech vectors/promoters/marker genes that get into the soil via residues and/or root exudates. I am wondering whether anyone has looked into this? Seems like a good time given that GMO-corn expressing Bt through roots could be as little as one season away (first approval could be in time for crop year 2002 according to DowAgroSciences). chuck Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 12:49:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03506 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10650 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:06:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10642 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07941 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([12.79.181.189]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19991004160422.IINE26062@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:04:22 +0000 Message-ID: <37F8CF77.3401EB84@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:01:59 -0400 From: Samuel Kaymen Reply-To: kaymen@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Terminator Seeds: Help with Testimony NH Bill Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2937 Hello Friends, I am scheduled to testify before the study committee (November 9, 1999) of the New Hampshire House of Representatives who has been established to "..to examine the threat to bio-diversity as a result of the sterility trait flowing from 'terminator' crops to surrounding plants, rendering them sterile." This study committe was the result of a failed bill to ban "terminator" technology in New Hampshire. I am asking for help in identifying souces of information on this very important subject. Since I only have a little over a month I would appreciate any help you can give me ASAP. Thanks so much. Samuel Kaymen 266 Old Mountain Road Lyndeborough, NH 03082 kaymen@worldnet.att.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 13:18:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04106 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19485 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:20:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19472 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:20:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f45.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.45]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA08301 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:18:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 48690 invoked by uid 0); 4 Oct 1999 16:18:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19991004161816.48689.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 4.16.92.235 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:18:15 PDT X-Originating-IP: [4.16.92.235] From: "alicia randall" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: mgs@igc.apc.org Subject: Online infooo: diazinon Michele Gale-Sinex Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:18:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2938 Please send my information you may have about diazinon overexposure and health effects of the organophosphate pesticide. I have had an exposure and have been unsuccessful in locating much useful information. Thank you Alicia ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 15:24:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07171 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21754 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:35:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex2.theitgroup.com ([207.247.16.120]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21740 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:35:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from theitgroup.com (torrn2.theitgroup.com [10.1.2.10]) by torrex2.theitgroup.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id 42C5WMNP; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:33:45 -0700 Received: from IT-Message_Server by theitgroup.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:13:27 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:55:00 -0700 From: RALPH COLE To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Nuclear spills/waste land -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2939 I reckon what I interpret to be "major (radioactive) spills" fall into the Chernobyl category and I'm not aware of too many of those. Single big events. A chronic uncontrolled release of something unwanted into the environment is not a spill. Every discipline has it's own vocabulary. The GMO issue does have a corollary in the development of America's nuclear program: both require a huge infrastructure to implement and the associated big bucks, and both have potential for huge disasters which requires VERY careful and close controls to avoid such disasters. This latter point is where the fallibility of man dropped the ball for the nuclear program. It will probably happen for the GMO issue as well, if allowed to develop. A difference between the two is that the nuclear program didn't have many popular public detractors in it's early stages, but the GMO issue does. Also, government (acting as referee) has a chance to act on public opinion against the proliferation of GMOs in a way it couldn't act during the (military) buildup of nuclear plants. Not that anybody wants to depend on gov't to save the day... Neither is intrinsically "evil", although I would like to say that GMOs are. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 16:16:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08541 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22759 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:31:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22596 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11066; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:24:44 -0700 To: hector@cipav.org.co From: Misha Subject: Re: Programa del VI Seminario Internal. sobre Sistemas Agropecuarios Sostenibles Cc: SANET-mg Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA22666 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2940 Howdy, todos, y Hector-- >VI SEMINARIO INTERNACIONAL SOBRE SISTEMAS AGROPECUARIOS SOSTENIBLES >- 28 al 30 Octubre 1999 - > >PRIMER CONGRESO LATINOAMERICANO DE AGROFORESTERA PARA LA PRODUCCI"N >ANIMAL SOSTENIBLE - 25 al 27 Octubre 1999 - Tengo unas preguntas, por favor. Cmo puedo participar en estos? Dnde est sucediendo? Estn unas conferencias? Dnde puedo conseguir ms informacin? Publicar Ud. resumen de las conferencias? Mi espaol es terrible, mis apologias. Gracias por adelantado. paz misha I have a few questions. How can someone participate in these events? Where are they happening, and are these events conferences? Where can I learn more? Will someone be publishing conference proceedings? Sorry for my terrible Spanish and thanks in advance. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In the end, they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, "Make us your slaves, but feed us." --Dostoevsky To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 16:46:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09221 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28798 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:47:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28773 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13063 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:46:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EM42GCYQ; Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:44:53 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:21:03 -0700 Subject: re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture Message-ID: <19991004.122918.3670.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-13,16,21-22 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2941 snip... "In fact small farms are 'multi-functional' -- more productive, more efficient, and contribute more to economic development than do large farms," ...snip... "small farmers not only still cling to the soil but continue to be more productive and more efficient than large, agri-business farming operations. ...snip... "Free trade causes the prices farmers receive to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them into bankruptcy by the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest can survive, according to the study. ...snip What did I miss here? If small farms are more efficient, then why does a drop in prices cause the small ones to go bankrupt while the largest survive? This reminds me of the paradox that "organic" food supposedly costs less to produce yet costs more in the store. The only plausible explanation I've heard is the cost of certification, but this won't apply to the above discussion about small farms being more efficient but going bankrupt before the largest ones when prices drop. Regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 17:07:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09676 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17741 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:20:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17690 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13812 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id QAA01446 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37F90C78.718C14C9@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:22:16 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture References: <19991004.122918.3670.1.eweigel@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2942 Edna M Weigel wrote: > snip... > "In fact small farms are 'multi-functional' -- more productive, more > efficient, and contribute more to economic development than do large > farms," > ...snip... > "small farmers not only still cling to the soil but continue > to be more productive and more efficient than large, agri-business > farming operations. > ...snip... > "Free trade causes the prices > farmers receive to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them > into bankruptcy by the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest > can survive, according to the study. > ...snip > What did I miss here? If small farms are more efficient, then > why does a drop in prices cause the small ones to go bankrupt while the > largest survive? > This reminds me of the paradox that "organic" food supposedly > costs less to produce yet costs more in the store. The only plausible > explanation I've heard is the cost of certification, but this won't apply > to the above discussion about small farms being more efficient but going > bankrupt before the largest ones when prices drop. > Regards, Edna Can't say about the small farm/large farm issue, but I think the organic food issue has to do with supply and demand. It does near in Raleigh, NC, anyway. . . Organic produce (at specialty stores, e.g. Whole Foods/WellSpring) flies off the shelf, even when marketed side-by-side with conventionally grown produce at 33% lower prices! I also understand there is some storage loss and loss due to "bad-looking" ftuits and veggies. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 17:23:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10022 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:23:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24387 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:30:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24288 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14042 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08761 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37F91BE7.F392E5CB@uoguelph.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:28:07 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture References: <19991004.122918.3670.1.eweigel@juno.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------689551C22CA3A9D8E83B7329" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2943 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------689551C22CA3A9D8E83B7329 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Edna: you ask good questions and ones that need a thoughtful answer. I'm not an ag economist, but will add my 2 cents and encourage others more knowledgeable to pitch in. > 1. What did I miss here? If small farms are more efficient, then why does > a drop in prices cause the small ones to go bankrupt while the largest > survive? The answer is "margin". As the margin drops (e.g. the difference between what it costs to produce a unit of grain, milk, or meat and the value it fetches when sold), you need to sell more bu or liters or calves to stay even. More than anything else, the declining margin has been the cause of farm expansion (where one neighbor buys out another) and declinng farm population. A "large" family farm netting $100,000 can absorb a price downturn better than one netting $20,000 because it has more depth, more slack or flex. A large family farm may also choose to get larger still, to grow more bushels or milk, compensate for a price decline per unit bu or milk (and to make use of that extra machinery it bought that is still underutilized!). A small farm, and most especially one that is at the upper limit of its physical, labor, and mechanical resources (and doesn't want to step up to more indebtedness) may choose not to buy more land, cows, or machinery - so to stay "even", they have to be more efficient to stabilize or increase their margin. But there is a limit to how efficient one can get, at least within the prevailing paradigm (e.g. without switching from confinement to grass, for example). This is one reason why small farmers, in addition to enhancing efficiency, often adopt fundamentally different approaches to both production and marketing, to lower costs, increase price, and widen the margin, leaving them more income without the need to produce more units, per se. > This reminds me of the paradox that "organic" food supposedly costs less to > produce yet costs more in the store. The only plausible explanation I've > heard is the cost of certification, but this won't apply > to the above discussion about small farms being more efficient but going > bankrupt before the largest ones when prices drop. Organic food costs more to the consumer largely because of price hikes at the retail end. Organic is still a small player, unable to consistently occupy shelf space year-around, look "just-picked" 7 days a week, and various other scale concerns that occupy the minds of retailers. So, they raise the price quite substantially to cover their own insecurity with food quality and availability. As the volume of organic produce grows, and as retailers cope with the notion that year-around strawberries are not essential, this will be less of an issue. The amount actually paid to the farmer may not change much, but the price paid by the consumer will. It should also be said that organic will cost a lot less to produce than other foods if and when society actually starts holding accountable those farmers whose operations involve a lot of (unaccounted for) externalities, obliging society to pick up the tab. Who is going to pay for all that hog manure contamination in North Carolina? The hog farmers? Tyson? Right. Who is paying for cleaning up the nitrate-contaminated groundwater in Des Moines? The corn producers? The feedlot owners? Conversely, organic farming is based on the notion of internalizing costs of production, to effectively avoid groundwater contamination and other externalized costs of production. In sum, the value of organic food currently reflects 100% of its true cost of production, while the value of food that is produced with unaccounted for externalities reflects say 70% of its true cost of production (just a guess). When it reflects 100%, the picture - and this discussion - will change. Ann --------------689551C22CA3A9D8E83B7329 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------689551C22CA3A9D8E83B7329-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 17:41:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10402 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18738 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:07:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18385 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.131]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA26687 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:00:35 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991004160443.00756010@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:04:43 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: small farms are more efficient Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id RAA18660 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2944 Edna ponders: >"Free trade causes the prices >farmers receive to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them >into bankruptcy by the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest >can survive, according to the study. >...snip > What did I miss here? If small farms are more efficient, then >why does a drop in prices cause the small ones to go bankrupt while the >largest survive? > This reminds me of the paradox that "organic" food supposedly >costs less to produce yet costs more in the store. The only plausible >explanation I've heard is the cost of certification, but this won't apply >to the above discussion about small farms being more efficient but going >bankrupt before the largest ones when prices drop. >Regards, Edna What is not explicit in Peter's comment is why 'free trade causes prices to drop.' This sounds a little misleading. Real free trade does cause prices to drop and would still give 'market' rewards to more efficient small farmers. The problem is what passes for 'free trade' in the context of things like NAFTA and WTO are really tremendous subsidies for transnational corportations that, among other things, allow them to dump cheap commodities on local markets and run small farmers out of business, no matter how efficient they are. The politics of 'free trade' stacks the rules of the game to subsisdize corporations' transactions costs. This happens in a myriad of ways such as sanitations rules that favor highly capitalized operations, environmental regulations that allow huge ecological costs to be externalized, patents that only corporations with full-time legal departments can afford to enforce, etc., etc. As for organics, its the farmer and the consumer who are paying the costs of organic transition and the restoration of soils deteriorated by industrial agriculture. I.e. organic agriculture is internalizing the environmental costs of decades of conventional agriculture. That, along with a strong demand for organic products (growing 20%+ per year) keeps prices up. In the long run, however, lower production and environemental costs should be reflected in cheaper (and better) food, with no need for hidden subsidies. We just have to keep working on it. Regards to all, Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 17:48:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10568 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16598 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:05:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16540 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from comet.connix.com (root@comet.connix.com [198.69.10.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14930 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kim (entomol.connix.com [205.246.104.21]) by comet.connix.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA15726; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000e01bf0eab$cc9e8300$1568f6cd@kim> From: "Kimberly Stoner" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Terminator Seeds: Help with Testimony NH Bill Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:02:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2945 Samuel: The place to start is with the Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI). They are the ones who first publicized the terminator technology and gave it that nickname. Their website is at: www.rafi.org I believe. I tried to confirm this, but could not establish a connection with their server at the moment. Another possibility is www.rafi.ca Kim Stoner -----Original Message----- From: Samuel Kaymen To: Sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 12:17 PM Subject: Terminator Seeds: Help with Testimony NH Bill >Hello Friends, >I am scheduled to testify before the study committee (November 9, 1999) >of the New Hampshire House of Representatives who has been established >to "..to examine the threat to bio-diversity as a result of the >sterility trait flowing from 'terminator' crops to surrounding plants, >rendering them sterile." This study committe was the result of a failed >bill to ban "terminator" technology in New Hampshire. I am asking for >help in identifying souces of information on this very important >subject. Since I only have a little over a month I would appreciate any >help you can give me ASAP. >Thanks so much. >Samuel Kaymen >266 Old Mountain Road >Lyndeborough, NH 03082 >kaymen@worldnet.att.net > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 18:53:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11746 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:53:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19706 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:57:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18938 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:56:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP234.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.250]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA25016; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F9231C.5EAE385C@sprintmail.com> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 17:58:53 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Nigh CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: small farms are more efficient References: <3.0.1.32.19991004160443.00756010@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2946 Ronald, Great answer! Might I add one comment? Organic farmers, just like chemical farmers, get a very small portion of the consumer's dollars. Organic costs the consumer more because of price gouging by those in the middle. And I have a question. Why does everyone blame farmers when prices go up? I use as an example the price that hog farmers get versus the price of pork in the stores- less than it costs to raise pigs and the price to consumers hasn't dropped. OK, another one- Cotton farmers are getting the same price for their cotton as they did in 1930. Yet the price of a cotton shirt is 10 times more. Alex Ronald Nigh wrote: > Edna ponders: > > >"Free trade causes the prices > >farmers receive to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them > >into bankruptcy by the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest > >can survive, according to the study. > >...snip > > What did I miss here? If small farms are more efficient, then > >why does a drop in prices cause the small ones to go bankrupt while the > >largest survive? > > This reminds me of the paradox that "organic" food supposedly > >costs less to produce yet costs more in the store. The only plausible > >explanation I've heard is the cost of certification, but this won't apply > >to the above discussion about small farms being more efficient but going > >bankrupt before the largest ones when prices drop. > >Regards, Edna > > What is not explicit in Peter's comment is why 'free trade causes prices to > drop.' This sounds a little misleading. Real free trade does cause prices > to drop and would still give 'market' rewards to more efficient small > farmers. The problem is what passes for 'free trade' in the context of > things like NAFTA and WTO are really tremendous subsidies for transnational > corportations that, among other things, allow them to dump cheap > commodities on local markets and run small farmers out of business, no > matter how efficient they are. The politics of 'free trade' stacks the > rules of the game to subsisdize corporations' transactions costs. This > happens in a myriad of ways such as sanitations rules that favor highly > capitalized operations, environmental regulations that allow huge > ecological costs to be externalized, patents that only corporations with > full-time legal departments can afford to enforce, etc., etc. > > As for organics, its the farmer and the consumer who are paying the costs > of organic transition and the restoration of soils deteriorated by > industrial agriculture. I.e. organic agriculture is internalizing the > environmental costs of decades of conventional agriculture. That, along > with a strong demand for organic products (growing 20%+ per year) keeps > prices up. In the long run, however, lower production and environemental > costs should be reflected in cheaper (and better) food, with no need for > hidden subsidies. We just have to keep working on it. > > Regards to all, > > Ronald Nigh > Dana, A.C. > Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas > Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) > danamex@mail.internet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 19:20:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12312 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13393 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:36:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13339 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16698 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-7.ofrf.org (ofrf7.tychonet.com [205.179.36.7]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id PAA17319 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:34:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jane@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19991004153220.00972220@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: jane2@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:33:25 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Jane Sooby Subject: vet use of black walnut Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2947 Dear Saneteers, Does anyone have information on veterinary use, past or present, of black walnut, specifically as a vermifuge? Thanks for any replies, Jane Sooby technical program coordinator Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440 Santa Cruz, CA 95061 831-426-6606 831-426-6670 fax 831-460-9713 home www.ofrf.org jane@ofrf.org "... consumerism ... was born where the sacred gives way to the profane, ritual to obsession, and the archetype to the stereotype."--Zoja To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 20:17:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13148 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25262 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:40:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [216.12.0.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25249 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 19:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1458 invoked from network); 4 Oct 1999 23:39:22 -0000 Received: from c4s11m31.cfw.com (HELO cfw.com) (216.12.57.232) by milo.cfw.com with SMTP; 4 Oct 1999 23:39:22 -0000 Message-ID: <37F93AF9.F0D63968@cfw.com> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:40:41 -0400 From: Jeff Ishee X-Sender: "Jeff Ishee" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Breaking news/Terminator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2948 Monsanto won't sell 'Terminator' seed See the complete story at: http://www.agriculture.com/scgi/AgNews/AgNews.cgi?FNC=goDetail__ANewsindex_html___42140___Monsanto&sp;today&sp;infor Monsanto today informed various stakeholders it will not commercialize seed technologies that render seeds sterile, like the controversial one dubbed "Terminator technology." Bob Shapiro, Monsanto's CEO, said the decision is based on input from Dr. Gordon Conway, the President of the Rockefeller Foundation, and the input from other experts and stakeholders, including growers. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 4 03:57:35 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26572 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 03:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23663 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 03:32:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23659 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 03:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 03:23:40 -0400 Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 03:13:02 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "'sanet-mg@amani.nces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: sustainable clothing Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 03:13:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2949 fyi cheers, craig INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION FOR IRISH ORGANIC CLOTHING COMPANY Oct. 1 /99 Genetics press release The pioneering spirit of a small company from Kilcar, Co. Donegal, has earned it major recognition, taking second place overall in an international competition for ecologically aware design. Natural Instincts , which specialises in garments made from organically produced wool and cotton, was chosen over hundreds of companies from countries around the world to achieve a place in the finals of the International Design Eco Awards (idea) 1999, a new annual awards programme whose aim is to promote ecological design and innovation in a holistic way. The aim of the eco awards programme is to promote ecological design and innovation, raising the awareness of good practice as well as highlighting the social, cultural and economic benefits to all from producer to consumer. Mr. James Doogan, managing director of Natural Instincts, said he was delighted with the recognition that would come from the award. "While the demand for organic clothing lags behind demand for organic food, I have no doubt that, as people become more aware of the availability of practical and stylish organic clothing, that demand will grow dramatically. "Over the past nine years we have continuously developed a range of garments produced without any harm to the environment", he said. "That range includes both underwear and outer garments for men, women and children, all of which are now available by mail-order in Britain and Ireland. "The wool we use is from sheep raised on Irish organic farms which are certified by the Irish Organic Trust. Collection and quality control of the wool is overseen by Mr. Joseph Finke, Ballybrado House, Cahir, Co. Tipperary. No organophosphate sheep dips are used in washing the sheep. We have used the wool in its natural colours together with three colours for piece-dying, using reactive dyes which are free of heavy metals and have a minimum impact on the environment. "It is totally biodegradable and is even suitable for composting when the garment is being disposed of. A further consideration is that piece-dying can be done quickly on request in small amounts, so it is economical and prevents large amounts of yarns being dyed and held in stock with the risk of becoming unfashionable and, therefore, producing waste", Mr. Doogan explained. The two complete outfits submitted by Natural Instincts for the competition were made using wool spun and woven by Mr. Andrew Eadie of Kerry Woollen Mills, Beaufort, Co. Kerry, and were designed by 301 Design, Copenhagen, Denmark. The outfits are designed to be wearable in a variety of different combinations and some of the fabrics are double-faced, giving the possibility of turning the garment. In some knits there is both a different colour and a different texture in the alternative sides of the fabric. This feature prolongs the lifetime of a garment by distributing the wear and satisfies the human need for change. The fabrics can be used for coats, jackets, jumpers, cardigans, trousers, skirts and dresses. "The cotton used in Natural Instincts garments is also organically produced with no herbicides or pesticides. The purity and ecological quality of the cotton throughout all the processes of growing, spinning, knitting and manufacturing are controlled by SKAL, an independent and internationally-acknowledged inspection and certification body for organic production", said Mr. Doogan. craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 21:02:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13828 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17078 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:16:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17065 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18114 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by coyote.rain.org (Postfix, from userid 0) id 3304D61748; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0589E33E42; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:15:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Sal Schettino To: Russ Bulluck Cc: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Agriculture In-Reply-To: <37F90C78.718C14C9@unity.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2950 I think the reason is if you have a small farm and make $5 a box and on every box you make 5.00 and you are a big farm and you sell 1000,000 boxes and a small farm sell only 100 boxes. and if prices drop so you only make a dime a box and big farm sells 1000,000 boxes and you sell 100 . anyway I think the big farm can easy drive the price down where if you only have a few you don't pay your farm loans.. also a big farm can put up the big money for a full crew picking and packing stuff etc. plus the Gov. helps the big guys out . they have a get big or get out way of thinking..Just a thought On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Russ Bulluck wrote: > > > Edna M Weigel wrote: > > > snip... > > "In fact small farms are 'multi-functional' -- more productive, more > > efficient, and contribute more to economic development than do large > > farms," > > ...snip... > > "small farmers not only still cling to the soil but continue > > to be more productive and more efficient than large, agri-business > > farming operations. > > ...snip... > > "Free trade causes the prices > > farmers receive to drop through the floor", said Rosset," driving them > > into bankruptcy by the millions." Such low prices mean only the largest > > can survive, according to the study. > > ...snip > > What did I miss here? If small farms are more efficient, then > > why does a drop in prices cause the small ones to go bankrupt while the > > largest survive? > > This reminds me of the paradox that "organic" food supposedly > > costs less to produce yet costs more in the store. The only plausible > > explanation I've heard is the cost of certification, but this won't apply > > to the above discussion about small farms being more efficient but going > > bankrupt before the largest ones when prices drop. > > Regards, Edna > > Can't say about the small farm/large farm issue, but I think the organic food > issue has to do with supply and demand. It does near in Raleigh, NC, anyway. > . . Organic produce (at specialty stores, e.g. Whole Foods/WellSpring) flies > off the shelf, even when marketed side-by-side with conventionally grown > produce at 33% lower prices! I also understand there is some storage loss and > loss due to "bad-looking" ftuits and veggies. > -- > Russ Bulluck > Ph.D. Candidate > Department of Plant Pathology > North Carolina State University > PO Box 7616 > Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 > > http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot > be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, > and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil > economy that it must be studied. > --Sir E. John Russell > The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Sal Schettino,Organic Farmer,don't panic eat organic,sals@rain.org or check out my homepage: http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html . To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 22:29:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15273 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18225 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:54:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18103 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DigitalArk.ark.com (io5p41.ark.com [209.53.216.193]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with ESMTP id SAA22880 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:53:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199910050153.SAA22880@ark.com> From: "Ellen Rainwalker" To: Subject: Organic farming cheaper? Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:57:46 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2951 I don't know where the idea comes from that organic produce costs less to produce. Organic fertilizers and pest controls cost more, cover crop seeds have to be purchased, and there is a much higher cost for labour for fertilizing, making & spreading compost, weeding and other tasks that are usually done with chemicals on conventional farms, and management and record-keeping in general takes more time and energy. Lots of products that make life easier for conventional farmers are forbidden to organic farmers (e.g. slug bait, treated fence posts, etc). And then as you say there is the cost of certification. If anybody can provide proof that organic farming costs less to do, I'd like to see it. Ellen Rainwalker To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 22:57:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15542 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05623 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:25:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05575 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19845 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d86.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.214]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA10186 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001801bf0edb$2ce38c40$d67a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: use of Black Walnut Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:41:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2952 Hi all, I didn't have a clue what you meant by vermifuge so I looked it up and for those of you who do not know it means "to eliminate intestinal worms" or " a medicine to do so.but we have used it as an aid against Johne's disease with some success. Go with God, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 4 22:57:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15547 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:57:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11298 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:30:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11294 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19918 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:29:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d86.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.214]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA12156 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001b01bf0edb$ecac3a40$d67a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: use of Black Walnut Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:47:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2953 Hi all, Never heard of the word vermifuge before. For those of you who don't know the dic. says "to eliminate intestinal worms" or " the medicine to do so." We have never used it for that purpose but have used it for Johne's as both a treatment and as prevention. Hard to tell w/o a control group to compare it with. We deffinately had it and overcame it w/o vaccinations or other methods. Go with God, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 02:30:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16781 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA08690 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 01:43:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08485 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 01:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22951 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37F93AF9.F0D63968@cfw.com> References: <37F93AF9.F0D63968@cfw.com> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:41:40 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Re: Breaking news/Terminator Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2954 Howdy, all-- Jeff shared: >Monsanto won't sell 'Terminator' seed > > Monsanto today informed various stakeholders it will not commercialize >seed technologies that render seeds sterile, like the controversial one >dubbed "Terminator technology." > Bob Shapiro, Monsanto's CEO, said the decision is based on input >from Dr. Gordon Conway, the President of the Rockefeller Foundation, and >the input from other experts and stakeholders, including growers. Forgive my cynicism, but this couldn't possibly be as simple as it looks. >"Though we do not yet own any sterile seed technology, we think it >is important to respond to those concerns at this time by making >clear our commitment not to commercialize gene protection systems >that render seed sterile," Shapiro said. But you just KNOW that they've got other gene protection systems in the wings. You just know it. Not just Pinkertons and Intellectual Property Court. Terminator is one thing--they went around spending money on patents like drunken sailors on pay day. I see Shapiro's comments above as PR. That is, they come up with such an egregious and horrendous idea, put it out there for everyone to see, then heroically spare us from it. Reminds me of that /Outer Limits/ episode, where Robert Culp was mutated into the stalking, stomping, spook-eyed monster from space, so that the military would have someone to save us from. You know I'm not big on conspiracy theories--observing as I have that few people can get their collective action together sufficiently to carry a sofa up a flight of stairs and into an apartment. But I've always felt something of the Smokescreen around Monsanto's Terminator technology. Call it intuition--but it's so egregious and idiotic, that anything is bound to seem tame by comparison, eh? Like the fact that Monsanto has teams working on how to privatize the world's water. That's not a conspiracy...and was reported here some months ago. What do you all think??? peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As crude a weapon as the cave man's club, the chemical barrage has been hurled against the fabric of life. --Rachel Carson To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 08:02:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19514 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:02:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06979 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:20:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06966 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 07:20:17 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:18:55 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:18:54 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.67] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0603263c ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:18:38 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991005060738.00820e50@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 06:07:38 -0500 To: Subject: Re: Breaking news/Terminator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2955 >>Monsanto won't sell 'Terminator' seed >> >> Monsanto today informed various stakeholders it will not >>commercialize seed technologies that render seeds sterile, like the >>controversial one dubbed "Terminator technology." My skeptic alarms were going off bigtime when I heard this report too. Who really believes the "life science" companies have decided to help solve the world hunger "problem" by giving away their "humanitarian" technology? If I recall correctly, RAFI at http://www.rafi.org did a patent search and found, in addition to what they labeled Terminator Technology, there was a whole series of technologies they called Traitor Technology. The thrust of the Traitor Technology was for the plant to grow and yield up to it's potential, you would have to apply various company supplied sprays no doubt in conjunction with various company herbicides/insecticides to turn on genetic switches that control these characteristics. Whether the "life science" companies control the fertility of the seed or the yield of the crop, the power is still there to cause some fraction (determined by them and their control of the seed supply) of the farmer's income potential to drop the the bottom line of the "life science" company. Here in the Midwest, there is already some reports that the farmers may have to plant GMO's next year regardless of market demand because there will not be enough regular seed to go around. I agree that corporations are many times inept but I think RAFI blindsided Monsanto by exposing their purchase of this technology. If RAFI had not been on their toes, Terminator would be a done deal at least here in the USA because our corporate controlled media would have never dared raise a peep. Just reference what happened to the Flordia reports who exposed problems with rBGH. How long can you live without a job? Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 08:41:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19886 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09349 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:10:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09345 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:10:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA19481; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:09:55 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21859; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:10:15 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 5 Oct 99 14:03:12 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 5 Oct 99 14:02:20 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: earthspn@crocker.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:02:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <13966C41D43@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2956 hello mark, >I can't recall whether this has been addressed in this forum before >or not...but an organic farmer I am working with recalls a federal >study which found that organic food is superior in some nutrients >to conventional food. there exist several studies in europe, which found differences in nutrient content between conventional and organic food, some nutrients are higher in conventional food (magnesium, mangan, zinc), some are higher in organic food (dry matter [not a real nutrient], sugars, calcium, phosphor and iron, several feeding studies showed higher contents per d.m. in vitamins). the result of the different studies are not very consistant about the percentages, but the overall trend surely is. results of the contents highly depend on the kind of food, the year and the field factor (where there's an organic field, you cannot grow conventional control fruit). in the average the results differ in the range of +20 to -30% between the different groups. only exception is leak and the content of nitrates, here the organic group has about 60-70% less nitrate in fresh matter. >She says she recalls that some nutrients were in the hundreds and >even thousands of percent greater in organic food. she certainly recalls wrong. that's hype and bad advertisement in favor or her own interest and serves neither the buyer in the short nor the organic food system in the long run. >Does anyone know if this study exists and where to get a copy? yes, they exist. the most important: Meier-Ploeger, A., Vogtmann, H. (1989); Oekologischer Landbau und Lebensmittelqualitaet, Oekologie + Landbau, p. 69 ff. Karg, G. (1984) Vergleich von Qualitaet und Kosten verschiedener Ernaehrungsformen. Ernaehrungsumschau 31: 363-372 Fuerst, L. (1983) Qualitaet von Obst, Kartoffeln und getreide. DLG Arbeitsunterlagen: Zur Qualitaet pflanzlicher Produkte aus modernem und alternativen Anbau, AI 83,55-58 unfortunately in german, but in general they all come to the results i mentioned above. Klaus Wiegand Landwirtschaftl. Untersuchungs- u. Forschungsanstalt (LUFA) (Governm. Inst. for Agricult. & Environm. Res.) 67346 Speyer, Obere Langgasse 40 (GERMANY) Dept. of Seed Sci., Microscop. Analysis & Plant Pathol. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 09:04:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20216 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21253 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:30:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21225 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28437 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d90.as1.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.124.218]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA25336 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000b01bf0f2f$cdc9d7a0$da7c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Organic Farming is EXTREEMLY Cheaper Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:47:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2957 Sorry, but I just had to jump in here. Once you get past your first two years as an organic producer(not that I have yet so I am not an authority on the subject), the way I understand it is most if not ALL of your inputs come from your farm. I have a good friend who I have watched up and this is what I understand to be true. #1. SEED. supposed to work is that you plant your seeds, you save some seed back for the following year and you have an input for seed of $0 off farm cost. Yes it cost you some space on your farm and your labor and fuel but that is it. #2. FERTILIZER. You need very little if any, that is after the life of your soil has improved. One catch though. You have to have livestock for his system to work. You need to compost the yearly supply. He spreads it on a fourth of his farm each year. This is your fertilizer for the next four years on that field. He has respectable yeilds. So if you do the math 0+0+0=0. Yes, I know you have your time, repairs, fuel and certification but not much more. He relays to me that even if he didn't sell organic he would be much farther ahead than conventional. There is two things I noticed when I went to the Organic Conference last year,(my first). One: they were all very content and at peace with themselves and Two: No one was ever going back no matter what the prices would go to. They deffinately were not in it for the money even if they started out that way. So I have a challenge for you, start to change the way you look at things. Yes it will be be rough the first two years but after that ???? Keep your eye on the light at the end of the tunnel and be at peace. As I have been told Christmas still comes at the same time every year. Might be a few less gifts under the tree but that's not what its all about anyway. Go with God, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 09:57:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21652 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21892 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:22:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21767 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:21:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25955 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FA08FB.13508164@uoguelph.ca> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:19:39 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic farming cheaper? References: <199910050153.SAA22880@ark.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C03DB3C00953E6BD309E75F3" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2958 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C03DB3C00953E6BD309E75F3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellen: in the item below, you wanted evidence that organic produce actually costs less to produce. I can reference to you a series of papers that we have published on organic milk production in Ontario, if that will help. Two are in American Journal of Alternative Agriculture (one out last year, and one coming shortly). The third was in the refereed proceedings of a conference on agriculture and the envrionment at Tufts several years ago. If you want the actual references, pls get back to me. In sum, however, we compared a group of 8 organic dairy operators (of a provincial total of 18 at the time) with the ODFAP database (Ontario Dairy Farm Accounting Project; an obligatory, 3% stratified random sample of all dairy producers = 120 farms). Production records were obtained via the commercial milk marketing "pool" that all milk went into at the time, so these numbers were absolute (not estimates). Organic dairy farms were larger in landbase (sign.), had similar herd size and labor use (ns), produced almost identical levels of milk per cow (ns), and made more money (net profit) per cow, per unit of labor, and per unit of land (sign). Note also that the organic milk was marketed into the bulk pool, and received no premium price. I cannot speak for other commodities, but this study supports the contention that organic food is cheaper to produce. Ann Ellen Rainwalker wrote: > I don't know where the idea comes from that organic produce costs less to > produce. Organic fertilizers and pest controls cost more, cover crop seeds > have to be purchased, and there is a much higher cost for labour for > fertilizing, making & spreading compost, weeding and other tasks that are > usually done with chemicals on conventional farms, and management and > record-keeping in general takes more time and energy. Lots of products that > make life easier for conventional farmers are forbidden to organic farmers > (e.g. slug bait, treated fence posts, etc). And then as you say there is > the cost of certification. > > If anybody can provide proof that organic farming costs less to do, I'd > like to see it. > > Ellen Rainwalker > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------C03DB3C00953E6BD309E75F3 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------C03DB3C00953E6BD309E75F3-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 10:03:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21749 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16940 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:18:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16884 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exnet.iastate.edu (root@exnet.iastate.edu [129.186.107.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29571 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Rich (pirog.leopold.iastate.edu [129.186.242.235]) by exnet.iastate.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA19812 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:16:51 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19991005081507.00a03980@exnet.iastate.edu> X-Sender: leopold@exnet.iastate.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 08:16:50 -0500 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: Richard Pirog Subject: Leopold Center newsletter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2959 FALL LEOPOLD LETTER EXPLORES HOT TOPICS The Fall issue of the Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture's quarterly "Leopold Letter" explores a number of hot agricultural topics, including the profitability of genetically modified crops, nitrate in water, and a profile of southwest Iowa farmer Steve Williams looking for a balance between farm size and the availability of labor. The issue also offers an in-depth exploration of Aldo Leopold's "A Sand County Almanac" on the 50th anniversary of its publication. The newsletter is available free by contacting the Leopold Center, (515) 294-3711; or by visiting its web site, http://www.leopold.iastate.edu. ---------------------- Richard Pirog Education Coordinator Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture 209 Curtiss Hall Iowa State University Ames, Iowa 50011-3120 515 294-1854 FAX: 515 294-9696 e-mail: leopold@exnet.iastate.edu Web page URL: http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 10:41:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22313 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09315 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:00:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09253 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:00:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA15880; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:59:24 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma014509; Tue, 5 Oct 99 08:58:29 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:58:29 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF61@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Misha'" Cc: SANET-mg Subject: RE: Breaking news/Terminator Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 08:58:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2960 Misha, >> "Though we do not yet own any sterile seed technology, we think it >> is important to respond to those concerns at this time by making >> clear our commitment not to commercialize gene protection systems >>that render seed sterile," Shapiro said. > I see Shapiro's comments above as PR. Of course it is PR! They don't think there is anything wrong or dangerous about the technology. Monsanto is finally waking up to the fact that they have to bow to public opinion, even if it is wrong. > But you just KNOW that they've got other gene protection systems in > the wings. Hybrid seed is the principal gene protection system. So, what else is new? > That is, they come up with such an egregious and horrendous idea, > put it out there for everyone to see, then heroically spare us > from it... Shouldn't you be more gracious in victory? After all, they are doing what environmentalists wanted! Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 11:11:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22979 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20998 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:23:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (gaes.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.200]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20913 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sareace6 (sareace6.Griffin.PeachNet.EDU [168.26.248.69]) by gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA18009 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199910051421.KAA18009@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu> From: "John Mayne" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:22:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Southern SARE Graduate Student Awards Reply-to: jmayne@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2961 The deadline for the following Call for Proposals is December 8, 1999. Please pass this message on to those you think will be interested. The Southern Region Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education (SARE) Program now funds the GRADUATE STUDENT AWARD IN SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE The Southern SARE Program on Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education is requesting proposals for Graduate Student research projects that address issues of sustainable agriculture of current and potential importance to the Southern Region and the nation. The maximum limits for Southern SARE Graduate Student Awards in Sustainable Agriculture are $10,000 and no more than three years duration. A candidate may receive only one Southern SARE Graduate Student Award during her or his graduate student career. The Southern SARE program will only consider proposals submitted, and to be conducted, by graduate students (masters and Ph.D.) enrolled at an accredited college or university in the Southern Region. The deadline for proposals to be received in the Southern Region SARE office is December 8, 1999. Full information can be found in the Call for Proposals. The Southern Region is comprised of Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands. To have a Southern SARE Graduate Student Award in Sustainable Agriculture Call for Proposals sent to you please call: (770) 412-4787. The Southern Region SARE Graduate Student Award in Sustainable Agriculture Call for Proposals can also be downloaded from the web at: http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare/GSRFP.html or http://www.griffin.peachnet.edu/sare If you have any questions about the Southern SARE Graduate Student Award in Sustainable Agriculture please contact: John C. Mayne, Ph.D. Southern SARE Program 1109 Experiment Street Griffin, GA 30223 PH: (770) 229-3350 FX: (770) 412-4789 jmayne@gaes.griffin.peachnet.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 11:28:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23499 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02072 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:45:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02043 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01568 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:43:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA10512; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:43:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FA0F78.FD878C2A@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:47:21 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Schmitmeyer , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Organic Farming is EXTREEMLY Cheaper (Long) References: <000b01bf0f2f$cdc9d7a0$da7c5acf@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2962 Paul Schmitmeyer wrote: > Sorry, but I just had to jump in here. > Once you get past your first two years as an organic producer(not that I > have yet so I am not an authority on the subject), the way I understand it > is most if not ALL of your inputs come from your farm. I have a good friend > who I have watched up and this is what I understand to be true. > > > There is two things I noticed when I went to the Organic Conference last > year,(my first). One: they were all very content and at peace with > themselves and Two: No one was ever going back no matter what the prices > would go to. They deffinately were not in it for the money even if they > started out that way. > > So I have a challenge for you, start to change the way you look at > things. Yes it will be be rough the first two years but after that ???? Keep > your eye on the light at the end of the tunnel and be at peace. > As I have been told Christmas still comes at the same time every year. Might > be a few less gifts under the tree but that's not what its all about anyway. > I think in much the same way, with some disagreement. Let me say first, that I'm academic/extension/research in practice, and I'm a student (not for much longer, I hope), so my experience with organic production is limited to the "Ivory Tower" realm of land-grant universities. I'm in the process of writing a journal article about a grower field study we did, where we examined organic and conventional production systems (3 each) and applied composts to three plots, and synthetic fertilizers to three plots on each farm, and let the growers handle the day to day activities of planting, weeding, pest control (probably Appl. Soil Ecol.). While seed may (or may not) be purchased, none of the growers bought organic amendments. Three growers transported composted cotton gin trash from a nearby gin (the gin was glad to be rid of it!), one grower composted cattle manure from her farm, one received municipal yardwaste compost, and the last grower composted yard waste and leaf matter on site (and may have been producing enough to sell on the side!). Labor was much more intense! weeding by hand or hoe, or rototiller (these were 25'*25' plots), some mulched the plots (mulch had to be purchased or grown, then applied). Harvest was by hand. Even with all this work, (and as many of you know it is indeed hard work) I always saw smiling faces when I visited the fields (theirs/mine). I've been to (and presented at) Organic Grower Field Days, and the same thing happens. Lots of questions from interested parties. The same presentations in the same fields yield different results when the audience is a group of extension agents trying to get recert. points. Organic farming is definitely a different mindset. I think the big problem is "the Jump:" The decision to become organic in the first place. It's a scary prospect, to go from a known ("My daddy has grown corn, soybeans, and tomatoes on these fields since I can remember. . .") to a new area where the grower must learn a different way to prevent weeds, or stop plant disease. Where (s)he must pick the potato beetles off the tomato leaves, and spray Bt-san diego (M-Trak), rather than Thiodan, or Penncap. And it is a big gamble to many growers. . .will I make it to three years so I can get certification? . . Can I sell my produce/grain to anyone without certification? What will Farmer John down the road think of me, crazy for doing this, or smart for doing this? I think several advantages exist in organic farming. (by the way I'm kinda using this forum as a sounding board for part of my discussion, so comments, questions, etc are welcome) First, when properly applied, organic amendments yield as well as conventional fertilizers in the first year. We have two different studies on eight different fields in three states in the Southeastern United States, and almost all plots containing organic amendments yielded as well the first year as comparable plots in the same field with commercial fertilizers. Soilborne plant disease (when present) is lower in soils containing organic amendments. Organically produced commodities "can be" sold for a premium (especially at farmers markets, where there is only a small middle man). Even Dennis Avery (and I'm kind of turning his table on him so to speak) in his book "Saving the planet with plastics and pesticides" concedes that organic produce is sold for 0% to 400% more at the market, so growers of organic produce must receive more money per volume produced (Saving the planet. . ., page 71). Another concern in organically produced food is the possibility of contamination with enteric bacteria. Enteric bacteria (those bacteria found in the intestines of vertebrates) are the leading cause of food poisoning in the United States (78,000,000 estimated cases each year, Emerging Infectious Diseases Vol 5: On line at http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no5/mead.html ). Avery in a press release to the Wall Street Journal on December 8, 1998, stated that organic and natural foods were eight times more likely to cause food poisonings, according to the CDC. The CDC, however, never made such a study or claim. In fact, most food-related illnesses (caused by Campylobacter jejuni, E. coli O157:H7, Listeria spp., and Salmonella spp.) came from contaminated and undercooked meats, with relatively few (0.2%) caused by contaminated sprouts (see above, and Report to congress, foodnet: an active surveillance system for bacterial foodborne disease in the US, April 1998. Also online: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPHS/rpcong98/rpcong98.htm ). In our study, we observed high numbers of enteric bacteria in soils with organic amendments at planting, but numbers were higher at harvest in soils with synthetic fertilizers than at planting, while numbers in soils with organic amendment dropped over time. Research has shown that Escherichia coli that was released in water was killed in 10 days, and those released to soil was reduced by 8 orders of magnitude in 60 days (that's 1,000,000,000 per ml to 10 CFU's per ml). This study was conducted with a tracer organism where the DNA banding patterns were known, and were unique, therefore only those organisms released were observed. This makes perfect sense, since E. coli, Salmonella spp., and other enteric bacteria are adapted to an environment with a constant nutrient supply and temperature. The soil has neither a constant nutirent supply and is quite oligotrophic, and temperatures are variable and well below the optimum 37 degrees C. Other enteric bacteria are better adapted to a soil environment, and would out likely compete pathogenic microorganisms, especially given the time between soil amendment and harvest. Actually, that's the first time i've written the last two paragraphs down. Sorry for boring some of y'all (in fact, those that were bored probably didn't get far enough to read this apology.) Any comments or suggestions will be welcome . . . Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 11:38:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23726 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11496 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:00:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11477 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <42TV9ANF>; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:59:33 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Ten Years of SARE on the web Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:59:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2963 Colleagues: This month we are posting the final installment of our chapter-by-chapter posting of Ten Years of SARE: A Decade of Programs, Partnerships and Progress. It is available on the Web at http://www.sare.org/san/10yrsofsan/ OR go to our home page and click on Publications. http://www.sare.org/ Ten Years of SARE showcases accomplishments of a unique USDA program that has made a difference in the lives of farmers and ranchers across the United States and Island Protectorates. To select a group of innovative, interesting and impactful projects, SARE staff chose one project from each of its four regions for the following 10 categories: Crop Production, Animal Production, Natural Resource Protection, Marketing, Community Development, Education, Pest Management, Horticulture, Professional Development, and Integrated Farm/Ranch Systems. One of the 10 categories was highlighted each of the last 10 months. October Highlight: INTEGRATED FARM/RANCH SYSTEMS. See http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/sare/funding.html for more information about the SARE program and grants. For a free print version of this colorful, 96-page book, contact me via e-mail or use the contact information below. Be sure to send your mailing address. Hope you've enjoyed these stories over the last year! Andy Clark, Ph.D. SAN Coordinator c/o AFSIC, Room 304 National Agricultural Library 10301 Baltimore Ave. Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 PH: 301-504-6425 FAX: 301-504-6409 san@nal.usda.gov http://www.sare.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 12:03:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24313 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19522 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:20:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from m3.boston.juno.com (m3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.198]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19443 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rick.welsh@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EM65KLUV; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:17:34 EDT To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:08:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Organic farming cheaper? Message-ID: <19991005.110818.-908649.2.rick.welsh@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Rick Welsh Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2964 In my review of research on the economics of organic grain and soybean production in the Midwestern United States, I found that production costs of organic systems were often reported as lower than the production costs of many conventional systems. The report can be found on our website: http://www.hawiaa.org/pspr13.htm Rick Welsh Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, Suite 117,Greenbelt, MD 20770 USA p: 301-441-8777; f: 301-220-0164 e-mail: rick.welsh@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 12:26:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24713 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11557 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:03:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11533 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: PetersFarm@aol.com Received: from PetersFarm@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id qUGDa12369 (302); Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:00:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:00:45 EDT Subject: Re: Breaking news/Terminator To: farmsted@cfw.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: PetersFarm@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2965 WHEEEEEE! (Does anyone else have the terminator technology?) More and more encouraged, Ann Gras To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 12:50:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25664 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20606 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:17:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20586 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:17:41 -0400 (EDT) From: SHoughton@aol.com Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03706 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SHoughton@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id vMYFa04067 (4467) for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:15:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27c9b30d.252b7e2e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:15:42 EDT Subject: Re: Organic Farming is EXTREEMLY Cheaper To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu (Sanet) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2966 In a message dated 10/05/1999 7:32:37 AM US Eastern Standard Time, ps@erinet.com writes: Although the costs are zero for off farm inputs, that does not mean that the inputs are free. That land that is producing seed, or is fallow (or in cover crop that is not sold) reduces the income by a 1/4 for the total acreage, so that taxes and other overhead costs are still included in the total farm expenses. It is true that an organic farmer usually gets more for his labor - but because he does not have the same interest expenses from To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 13:26:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26295 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02881 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:40:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02866 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from STEVED.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) with SMTP id LAA03072 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:38:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910051638.LAA03072@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:35:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Brown rot of peaches Reply-to: steved@ncatark.uark.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2967 Greetings, I got off Sanet last Spring, but after reading the web archives on brown rot of peaches it sparked my interest to temporarily rejoin and add a few observations and resources. Observations on Climate and Organic Peach Orcharding: Climate, and very specifically humidity, plays is a huge factor in the occurence of brown rot on peaches. Peach farmers in the Humid East wake up in the morning with three strikes against them in comparison to their Western neighbors. As you travel West, driving into the Short Grass Prairie regions of Westen Texas-Oklahoma-Kansas northwards, you enter the realm of possibilities. By the time you reach the Front Range of the Rockies in Colorado, you enter the zone of reality... with respect to dry air and brown rot on peaches. During the summer months here in Arkansas, it is not uncommon to experience 98% relative humidity. If you watch the national weather maps, the dewpoint average is very high in the southeastern U.S. Locations like Little Rock, AR, Atlanta, GA, and Houston, TX are very typically the highest in the nation. By contrast, California growers enjoy two unique climactic zones that enable organic peach orcharding to take place: the Mediterranean Climate which has a dry growing season and winter precipitation, and the Desert Climate, which has a Mediterranean rainfall pattern but very low overall precipitation. Last week I returned from a California trip that included a seminar at an organic peach orchard and a tour of a conventional peach orchard. As an example, while the conventional orchard uses herbicides for weed control, insecticides for mites and insects, fungicide in the post-harvest wax, commercial fertilizers injected into drip irrigation, and poisons for gophers... they do not use *any* fungicides in their foliar spray program. The reason being is that air is so dry in the desert valley that diseases are practically non-exisitent. A few peaches will still get brown rot, but they are merely picked off and tossed aside. [By comparison, practices at the organic peach orchard: soil applied compost, microjet irrigation, Brix Mix from Peaceful Valley Supply as a foliar spray, hand weeding to control vegetation, cover crops sown in October -- with some reseeding by subclover, Tanglefoot applied to trunks to trap ants climing into trees to herd aphids, twin rows of eggplant raised in the alleyways between peach trees as an intercrop] Thus, "where" you live makes a HUGE difference with respect to brown rot on peaches. Future Tools: The following tools -- when they become available -- could result in a dramatic shift in low-spray and organic peach orcharding. However, they are still in research stages: *Biocontrol for brown rot as an orchard spray for protection during the growing season. *Biocontrol for brown rot for protection during post-harvest shelf life When you look at this picture, it really does strike home that certain tools such as biopesticides really do and will make an impact on the feasibility for organic and low-spray production systems. Plain Organics vs Sophisticated Organics: To the extent that farmers or researchers will attempt to push the envelope and grow organic peaches in the Humid East, in my estimation it would helpful to emphasize sophisticated organics over plain organics. Plain organics can be characterized by early transition organic farming and by the substitution method. For example, where Extenion Service fertililizer recommendations call for so many pounds of fertilizer per acre, simply calculate how much fertilizer can be obtained from organic fertilizers and composts using linear conversions. If diseases are a problem, spray sulfur... because that is what is listed as an alternative fungicide. Sophisticiated organics include: *humus management practices (cover crops, composts, microbials) that enable shifts in quality of soil humus and the soil foodweb for whole plant systemic resistance to disease *foliar feeding practices that influence the phyllosphere; e.g., compost teas, rock dusts, hydrogen peroxide, humates, microbials, biosimulants and use of refractometers to measure leaf sap as well as fruit sap brix *energetic tools: radionics, cosmic pipes, biodynamic preparations, water treatments Resources: Organic Control of Peach Brown Rot in California, USA http://www.agroecology.org/cases/brownrot.htm Peach Brown Rot Study at Woodleaf Farm, Oroville, CA in 1993 http://www.agroecology.org/cases/brownrot/studies.htm These web links (which refer to Carl Rosato's on-farm research with organic peach orcharding in Oroville, CA) are examples of case studies on the very informative Agroecology website. Certainly, the foliar sprays Carl is using are examples of sophisticated organics. In fact, Rosato is a pioneer in the preparation and use of compost teas. Still, with respect to climate you can see that a grower like Carl Rosato in California has a destinctly unique advantage in comparison to a grower in the eastern U.S. Finally, I am reminded of the $100 reward Michael Maltus (then living in the Missouri Ozarks before migrating to California for greener pastures) offered for several years in the mid 1980s to anybody in the Eastern U.S. (including the NAFEX crowd of experimental growers) who could show they raised organic apples on a commercial basis (at least 100 trees)... yet nobody ever took him up on that reward, due to the arch nemisis of organic apple orcharding, the plum curculio. Likewise, do any commercial orchards in the Humid East actually produce organic peaches? If so, how do they do that? Steve Diver ATTRA http://www.attra.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 15:02:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28520 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22597 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:20:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22585 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06482 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d90.as1.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.124.218]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA47297 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002801bf0f60$939ed400$da7c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Organic Farming Cheaper Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:36:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2968 Hi Russ and all, Russ I was interested in the results of your study. Also in my little opinion you will find the one with the cow manure compost to yeild the best results however you may possibly not find this to be true if you use compost from manure from cows with anti-biotics used in the herd and possibly not fed an organic ration. Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 15:04:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28560 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20108 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:12:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20084 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12723 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FA4D1A.20E7B1D9@uoguelph.ca> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:10:19 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: [Fwd: Fw: News Release from RAFI] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FCC343AD5295DD53571B4FC5" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2969 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FCC343AD5295DD53571B4FC5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: as you might expect, there is more to the story. Ann > ----- Original Message ----- > From: RAFI News Posting Account > To: Multiple recipients of news - Sent by > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 7:55 AM > Subject: News Release from RAFI > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > Rural Advancement Foundation International > > News Release - 4 October 1999 > > rafi@rafi.org > > http://www.rafi.org > > > > > > *** Terminator Terminated? *** > > > > Monsanto surrenders 'suicide seeds' > > but continues work on other Traitor Technologies > > > > With biotech's Silver Bullet firmly imbedded in its own foot, Monsanto is > > dropping its guns, abandoning the Terminator, and telling farmers that it > > wants to play nice. Not so fast, hombre! > > > > Following 18 months of controversy and intense popular opposition around > > the world, Monsanto CEO Robert B. Shapiro has advised Gordon Conway, > > President of the Rockefeller Foundation that Monsanto has decided to > > abandon plans to commercialize Terminator Technology (causing crop seed to > > become sterile at harvest time). Monsanto's open letter to Rockefeller is > > available on the company's web site at: > > http:/www.monsanto.com/monsanto/gurt/default.htm > > However, the company says it will continue to pursue closely-related > > research targets that could allow Monsanto to switch on - or off - other > > genetic traits vital to a crop's productivity. RAFI calls it "Traitor" > > technology. > > > > "Congratulations should go to the civil society organizations, > > farmers, scientists, and governments all over the world > > who have waged highly effective anti-Terminator campaigns during the > > past 18 months," said Pat Mooney, Executive Director of RAFI, in reaction > > to Monsanto's announcement. "The public unanimously > > rejected Terminator because its bad for farmers, food security, and the > > environment," explained Mooney. > > > > "Monsanto would never have abandoned the profit-generating > > potential of sterile seeds just because it was an immoral technology," > > said RAFI's Research Director, Hope Shand. "The company > > finally realized that Terminator will never win public acceptance. > > Terminator has became synonymous with corporate greed, and it was > > met with intense opposition all over the world," adds Shand. > > > > Limping from a Silver Bullet: > > > > Monsanto is the second major "Gene Giant" to back away from Terminator > > Technology. In June of this year, the UN Convention on Biological > Diversity > > received a letter from UK-based AstraZeneca announcing that it would > > not commercialize seed sterility technologies. "In all, more than a > > dozen companies and public institutes have at least 31 patents that > > include claims involving seed sterilization," Pat Mooney says. Monsanto > was > > the big gun, however, and Terminator became a public relations disaster > > for the company when it made a bid to acquire Delta & Pine Land Seed > > Company in May, 1998. Delta & Pine Land co-owns the "prototype" > > Terminator patent with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) -- > > US patent number 5,723,765. In addition, Monsanto > > holds a second patent, WO 9744465, published 27 November 1997. > > > > Terminator Turn-Around: > > > > Even though RAFI does not question Monsanto's public commitment > > to abandon Terminator, it notes that market and technical realities may > > eventually force a different outcome. In a letter dated 24 February 1999 > > AstraZeneca categorically stated that it abandoned the development of its > > Terminator-type technology for the purpose of seed sterilization in 1992. > > RAFI discovered that ExSeed, an AstraZeneca joint venture with Iowa State > > University, won a new seed sterilization patent on 11 August 1997, based > on > > a claim made in 1995 - three years after AstraZeneca's research was to > have > > been abandoned. > > > > "We can't trust where the technology and companies may be taking us," said > > RAFI's Pat Mooney. "The technology for seed sterilization and trait > control > > are on the same trajectory. At some point, either through a corporate > > take-over or a change in management, trait control could easily be > > transformed back into genetic seed sterilization," cautions Mooney. > > > > Transnational Trait Control = Bioserfdom > > > > All the Gene Giants are pursing R&D on Terminator and Traitor technology, > > warns RAFI. Companies, including Monsanto, are working to control > important > > genetic traits of plants with external chemical catalysts. Once > perfected, > > a seed's genetic trait(s) could be turned on or off with the application > of a > > proprietary chemical, such as an herbicide or fertilizer, for example. > > "The companies tell us that trait control will mean more > > options for farmers, but chemically-dependent seeds will more likely lead > > to bioserfdom," warns Hope Shand, RAFI's Research Director. RAFI's > > in-depth report on Traitor technology, and a list of private and public > > sector institutions who hold Terminator-type patents, is available at: > > http://www.rafi.org > > > > USDA Stands Alone: > > > > When will USDA follow suit? USDA is now in the shameful position > > of supporting and defending a genetic technology that the world's 2nd > > largest seed corporation has clearly rejected due to public opposition. At > > a meeting with civil society organizations in June, Under-Secretary of > > Agriculture Richard Rominger told RAFI that USDA refuses to abandon > > the patent it co-owns with Delta & Pine Land (a Mississippi-based seed > > company in the process of being acquired by Monsanto) because it wants > > to see the technology widely licensed. > > > > Robert Shapiro's letter says that Monsanto made the decision to reject > > Terminator, in part, because it was responding to the views of its > > "very important grower constituency." "Why is USDA ignoring its > > farm constituency? Why does USDA insist on defending a technology that > > is bad for farmers, food security, and the environment?," asks RAFI's Hope > > Shand. > > > > "USDA is increasingly marginalized in its support of Terminator, it should > > immediately cease negotiations with Delta & Pine Land, abandon the > > patent, and develop a strict policy prohibiting the use of taxpayer funds > > for the development of genetic seed sterilization," said Hope Shand. > > > > Governments Need to Pull the Plug on Terminator: > > > > "Monsanto has taken a positive step, but let's not forget that farmers > can > > never depend on the charity and good will of > > the Gene Giants to reject immoral technologies," concludes > > RAFI's Moooney. "Without government action to firmly reject Terminator > > and Traitor technology, these technologies will be commercialized > > within a few years with potentially disastrous consequences," cautions > > RAFI's Mooney. > > > > RAFI urges national governments to take action at WTO and > > elsewhere to reject Terminator and Traitor technology on the basis > > of public morality. Next month, Ministers of Agriculture will gather for a > > ministerial meeting at the United Nations Food and Agriculture > > Organization in Rome. "It's the perfect opportunity for Ministers to > > affirm Monsanto and AstraZeneca's conclusion that Terminator technology > > is not safe for farmers or food security," concludes RAFI's Shand. > > > > * * * * * > > > > RAFI is a non-profit international civil society organization > headquartered > > in Winnipeg, Canada. For more than twenty years, RAFI has worked on the > > social and economic impact of new technologies as they impact rural > > societies. > > > > For further information: > > > > Pat Roy Mooney > > Executive Director, > > RAFI > > 110 Osborne St., Suite 202 > > WINNIPEG MB R3L 1Y5 CANADA > > Tel: (204) 453-5259 > > Fax: (204) 925-8034 > > E-mail: rafi@rafi.org > > > > > > Hope Shand, > > Research Director > > RAFI > > 118 E. Main Street, Room 211 > > Carrboro, NC 27510-2300 > > USA > > Ph. (919) 960-5223 > > Fax: (919) 960-5224 > > E-mail: hope@rafi.org > > > > > > > > RAFI (Rural Advancement Foundation Int'l.) > > 110 Osborne St., Suite 202 > > WINNIPEG MB R3L 1Y5 > > CANADA > > Tel: (204) 453-5259 > > Fax: (204) 925-8034 > > E-mail: rafi@rafi.org > > Internet: www.rafi.org > > > > > > --------------FCC343AD5295DD53571B4FC5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from inbound.mail.uoguelph.ca (inbound.mail.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.75]) by pobox.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11810; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca (testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.98]) by inbound.mail.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA26123; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from testinfo (testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.98]) by testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27282; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA by LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 2689490 for GENETICGENIE-L@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:51:16 -0400 Received: from edtnps05.telusplanet.net (edtnps05.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.105]) by testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27278 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clgrtnt2-port-206.agt.net ([161.184.43.206]:1439 "HELO oemcomputer") by smtp2.telusplanet.net with SMTP id ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:52:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <001a01bf0f5b$f3b48d80$ce2bb8a1@oemcomputer> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:03:35 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion group on genetic engineering Sender: Discussion group on genetic engineering From: shirley bray Subject: Fw: News Release from RAFI To: GENETICGENIE-L@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA ----- Original Message ----- From: RAFI News Posting Account To: Multiple recipients of news - Sent by Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 7:55 AM Subject: News Release from RAFI > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > Rural Advancement Foundation International > News Release - 4 October 1999 > rafi@rafi.org > http://www.rafi.org > > > *** Terminator Terminated? *** > > Monsanto surrenders 'suicide seeds' > but continues work on other Traitor Technologies > > With biotech's Silver Bullet firmly imbedded in its own foot, Monsanto is > dropping its guns, abandoning the Terminator, and telling farmers that it > wants to play nice. Not so fast, hombre! > > Following 18 months of controversy and intense popular opposition around > the world, Monsanto CEO Robert B. Shapiro has advised Gordon Conway, > President of the Rockefeller Foundation that Monsanto has decided to > abandon plans to commercialize Terminator Technology (causing crop seed to > become sterile at harvest time). Monsanto's open letter to Rockefeller is > available on the company's web site at: > http:/www.monsanto.com/monsanto/gurt/default.htm > However, the company says it will continue to pursue closely-related > research targets that could allow Monsanto to switch on - or off - other > genetic traits vital to a crop's productivity. RAFI calls it "Traitor" > technology. > > "Congratulations should go to the civil society organizations, > farmers, scientists, and governments all over the world > who have waged highly effective anti-Terminator campaigns during the > past 18 months," said Pat Mooney, Executive Director of RAFI, in reaction > to Monsanto's announcement. "The public unanimously > rejected Terminator because its bad for farmers, food security, and the > environment," explained Mooney. > > "Monsanto would never have abandoned the profit-generating > potential of sterile seeds just because it was an immoral technology," > said RAFI's Research Director, Hope Shand. "The company > finally realized that Terminator will never win public acceptance. > Terminator has became synonymous with corporate greed, and it was > met with intense opposition all over the world," adds Shand. > > Limping from a Silver Bullet: > > Monsanto is the second major "Gene Giant" to back away from Terminator > Technology. In June of this year, the UN Convention on Biological Diversity > received a letter from UK-based AstraZeneca announcing that it would > not commercialize seed sterility technologies. "In all, more than a > dozen companies and public institutes have at least 31 patents that > include claims involving seed sterilization," Pat Mooney says. Monsanto was > the big gun, however, and Terminator became a public relations disaster > for the company when it made a bid to acquire Delta & Pine Land Seed > Company in May, 1998. Delta & Pine Land co-owns the "prototype" > Terminator patent with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) -- > US patent number 5,723,765. In addition, Monsanto > holds a second patent, WO 9744465, published 27 November 1997. > > Terminator Turn-Around: > > Even though RAFI does not question Monsanto's public commitment > to abandon Terminator, it notes that market and technical realities may > eventually force a different outcome. In a letter dated 24 February 1999 > AstraZeneca categorically stated that it abandoned the development of its > Terminator-type technology for the purpose of seed sterilization in 1992. > RAFI discovered that ExSeed, an AstraZeneca joint venture with Iowa State > University, won a new seed sterilization patent on 11 August 1997, based on > a claim made in 1995 - three years after AstraZeneca's research was to have > been abandoned. > > "We can't trust where the technology and companies may be taking us," said > RAFI's Pat Mooney. "The technology for seed sterilization and trait control > are on the same trajectory. At some point, either through a corporate > take-over or a change in management, trait control could easily be > transformed back into genetic seed sterilization," cautions Mooney. > > Transnational Trait Control = Bioserfdom > > All the Gene Giants are pursing R&D on Terminator and Traitor technology, > warns RAFI. Companies, including Monsanto, are working to control important > genetic traits of plants with external chemical catalysts. Once perfected, > a seed's genetic trait(s) could be turned on or off with the application of a > proprietary chemical, such as an herbicide or fertilizer, for example. > "The companies tell us that trait control will mean more > options for farmers, but chemically-dependent seeds will more likely lead > to bioserfdom," warns Hope Shand, RAFI's Research Director. RAFI's > in-depth report on Traitor technology, and a list of private and public > sector institutions who hold Terminator-type patents, is available at: > http://www.rafi.org > > USDA Stands Alone: > > When will USDA follow suit? USDA is now in the shameful position > of supporting and defending a genetic technology that the world's 2nd > largest seed corporation has clearly rejected due to public opposition. At > a meeting with civil society organizations in June, Under-Secretary of > Agriculture Richard Rominger told RAFI that USDA refuses to abandon > the patent it co-owns with Delta & Pine Land (a Mississippi-based seed > company in the process of being acquired by Monsanto) because it wants > to see the technology widely licensed. > > Robert Shapiro's letter says that Monsanto made the decision to reject > Terminator, in part, because it was responding to the views of its > "very important grower constituency." "Why is USDA ignoring its > farm constituency? Why does USDA insist on defending a technology that > is bad for farmers, food security, and the environment?," asks RAFI's Hope > Shand. > > "USDA is increasingly marginalized in its support of Terminator, it should > immediately cease negotiations with Delta & Pine Land, abandon the > patent, and develop a strict policy prohibiting the use of taxpayer funds > for the development of genetic seed sterilization," said Hope Shand. > > Governments Need to Pull the Plug on Terminator: > > "Monsanto has taken a positive step, but let's not forget that farmers can > never depend on the charity and good will of > the Gene Giants to reject immoral technologies," concludes > RAFI's Moooney. "Without government action to firmly reject Terminator > and Traitor technology, these technologies will be commercialized > within a few years with potentially disastrous consequences," cautions > RAFI's Mooney. > > RAFI urges national governments to take action at WTO and > elsewhere to reject Terminator and Traitor technology on the basis > of public morality. Next month, Ministers of Agriculture will gather for a > ministerial meeting at the United Nations Food and Agriculture > Organization in Rome. "It's the perfect opportunity for Ministers to > affirm Monsanto and AstraZeneca's conclusion that Terminator technology > is not safe for farmers or food security," concludes RAFI's Shand. > > * * * * * > > RAFI is a non-profit international civil society organization headquartered > in Winnipeg, Canada. For more than twenty years, RAFI has worked on the > social and economic impact of new technologies as they impact rural > societies. > > For further information: > > Pat Roy Mooney > Executive Director, > RAFI > 110 Osborne St., Suite 202 > WINNIPEG MB R3L 1Y5 CANADA > Tel: (204) 453-5259 > Fax: (204) 925-8034 > E-mail: rafi@rafi.org > > > Hope Shand, > Research Director > RAFI > 118 E. Main Street, Room 211 > Carrboro, NC 27510-2300 > USA > Ph. (919) 960-5223 > Fax: (919) 960-5224 > E-mail: hope@rafi.org > > > > RAFI (Rural Advancement Foundation Int'l.) > 110 Osborne St., Suite 202 > WINNIPEG MB R3L 1Y5 > CANADA > Tel: (204) 453-5259 > Fax: (204) 925-8034 > E-mail: rafi@rafi.org > Internet: www.rafi.org > > > --------------FCC343AD5295DD53571B4FC5 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------FCC343AD5295DD53571B4FC5-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 15:19:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28933 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04019 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:41:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03940 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06978 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d90.as1.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.124.218]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA54929 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003601bf0f63$a3c467c0$da7c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Organic Farming EXTREEMLY Cheaper(Dear Ernie) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:58:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2970 Dear Ernie, I feel for your ignorance. There is no other way to put it. Where do I begin? Do you know that when a plant grows it grows primarilly from the atmosphere. Over 99. some percent. * A scientist did a study growing some tree in some tub of soil for x amount of time. (if you really need all the info I can get it but would rather not) After that period of time elapsed, the tub of approximately 200 lbs of soil weighed within a couple of ounces of the original weight. The tree I think weighed approximately 85 lbs. * Many, if not all organic farmers ( and I am talking totally organic farmers here) have told me that they buy nothing off the farm other than maybe some natural mineral supplemant for their cattle. ALL have told me to this point without difference that their soil test have acctually went UP! And I am not talking that many livestock. 30 head or so on 2-300 acres. How do you explain the chick coming out of the egg with more calcium in its bone structure than was in the egg to begin with? I suggest you put your previous education aside and start over with the mentallity of a child go talk to lots of farmers next and only then start to ask questions. Be careful tho, there are those who would lead you astray. Good Luck, Paul ps: as for all the other farmers, I have pity on them and this corprate world we live in. How do you rationalize drinking coffee, drinking soda, or eating anything processed much? IGNORANCE and ADICTION or HABIT. Your explanation To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 17:00:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01531 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24962 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from borg.cc.vt.edu (borg.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.242]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24906 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:52 -0400 (EDT) From: karenm@vt.edu Received: by borg.cc.vt.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:13:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: International Food Information Council Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:13:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2971 Does anyone know anything about the International Food Information Council? Has anyone seen publications from them? The July/Aug 1999 edition of Food Insights: Current Topics in Food Safety and Nutrition has great quotes about what the experts say about food biotechnology. The opening highlight says, "Foods from biotechnology are safe...According to the scientific community:. . ." Some of their sources are easily discounted (Glickman, Jimmy Carter). The others I wonder if something they said is out of context; others probably have a vested interest somehow in supporting biotechnology. They do not define what they mean by biotechnology except as some experts define it in their supporting statements. I assume, however, they mean GMOs. They reference the article Myths and Facts about Food Biotechnology," which can be found at the website below. Go to their homepage, food safety and nutrition, and biotechnology for other articles. http://ificinfo.health.org/foodbiotech/mythsfacts.htm Karen Mundy Communications Coordinator Rural Economic Analysis Program Department of Agricultural and Applied Economics (0401) Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-9443 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 17:11:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01802 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:11:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07092 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:36:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cybermesa.com (root@mail.cybermesa.com [198.59.109.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06965 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by mail.cybermesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3(SpamKiller1.0)) with ESMTP id OAA00922 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.12.75.64] (diallv79.roadrunner.com [209.12.75.79]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA19385 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: what environmentalists wanted! [was Breaking news/Terminator] Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2972 Dear Dale & sanet, Dale raised two points in his response to the Terminator news that I wanted to elaborate on and hopefully clarify. The first (snipped from Dale's post): >Monsanto is finally waking up to the fact that they >have to bow to public opinion, even if it is wrong. Nathan's respone: Dale, are you stating that Monsanto belives that public opinion is wrong about this issue or that you think public opinion is wrong? Shouldn't corporations be accountable to the public which grants them the right to exist in the first place? The second (snipped from Dale's post): >Shouldn't you be more gracious in victory? After all, they are doing what >environmentalists wanted! Nathan's response: My understanding of the opposition to Terminator technology was that it represented a broad spectrum of civil society from countries around the world. I would hardly give the credit entirely to environmentalists. I look forward to any thoughts. Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 17:33:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02118 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21017 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:56:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA20924 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:42:03 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:51:08 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, earthspn@crocker.com, Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2973 Klaus, glad you knew exactly where to find this stuff, I knew that there was limited info/data out there but not exactly where. Also glad for your caution and I would reinforce that caution by saying that these are all together to few data to say any thing more than "there may be some evidence" any one who would use this limited information to make some sort of market claim is suicidal and as I have stated both publicly and privately the organic industry certainly is that. Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 18:15:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02936 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03077 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:14:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03007 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10801 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d1.as1.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.124.129]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10409 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:12:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901bf0f78$f1b61f40$817c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Organic Farming Cheaper(Dear Ernie II) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:31:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2974 Dear Ernie, I appoligize for my insulting tone and for being rude. After sending it the way I did, I wish I hadn't. But when I have farmer after farmer tell me that you do not have to fertilize so long as you are composting for 3-4 years, what am I to believe? Someone from the institutions that have(for the most part) promoted chemical farming from the start OR organice farmers that have 7-25 years of experience to their name who listen to the soil and their crops for direction? The results they reveal to me are always the same; soil test are higher after several years of organic farming. Most of these use a good crop rotation along with composting of cattle manure. I beg you to research this and let us know. Thanks, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 18:19:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02992 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:19:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04657 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:15:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04577 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.194 (mx3-51.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.194]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14975; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:14:08 -0500 Message-ID: <37FA6DA3.2F36@smallfarms.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 11:29:07 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Free Registrations for Small Farmers and Ranchers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2975 News you can use: smallfarms.com, the small farmer marketing web site, is offering free, one year registrations to small farmers and ranchers. This offer should take most of you through next years harvest. See www.smallfarms.com for more detailed information. Please remember that small farmers and ranchers do not need computers to register or use this system. (Those of you with computers may assist non-computerized friends for speed and convenience. A written form is also available at the site.) This special program is part of our efforts to put the face and the voice of small farmers and ranchers on their products. Feel free to forward this message and to post it elsewhere. (Id appreciate knowing where its post this by separate e-mail.) glenn Buy from the Farmer www.smallfarms.com p.s. For the academics, scholars and staff of organizations who may see this, I know that some of you farm on the sly. Join us. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 18:58:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03526 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:58:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13631 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:20:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE2.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13594 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from abc ([128.253.251.239]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA28449; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19991005181439.00b10630@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: cm52@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 18:19:03 -0400 To: karenm@vt.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Chris McCullum Subject: Re: International Food Information Council In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2976 Karen: The International Food Information Council (IFIC) is a non-profit organization heavily sponsored/funded by industry groups. >Does anyone know anything about the International Food Information Council? >Has anyone seen publications from them? The July/Aug 1999 edition of Food >Insights: Current Topics in Food Safety and Nutrition has great quotes >about what the experts say about food biotechnology. The opening highlight >says, "Foods from biotechnology are safe...According to the scientific >community:. . ." Some of their sources are easily discounted (Glickman, >Jimmy Carter). The others I wonder if something they said is out of >context; others probably have a vested interest somehow in supporting >biotechnology. >They do not define what they mean by biotechnology except as some experts >define it in their supporting statements. I assume, however, they mean >GMOs. They reference the article Myths and Facts about Food Biotechnology," >which can be found at the website below. Go to their homepage, food safety >and nutrition, and biotechnology for other articles. > >http://ificinfo.health.org/foodbiotech/mythsfacts.htm > > >Karen Mundy >Communications Coordinator >Rural Economic Analysis Program >Department of Agricultural and Applied Economics (0401) >Virginia Tech >Blacksburg, VA 24061 >(540) 231-9443 > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 19:20:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04193 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29172 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:53:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29161 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id QAA03026; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:52:07 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma002372; Tue, 5 Oct 99 16:51:24 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:51:23 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF64@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'nrboone@roadrunner.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: what environmentalists wanted! [was Breaking news/Terminator] Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:51:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2977 Nathan, > The first (snipped from Dale's post): >> Monsanto is finally waking up to the fact that they >> have to bow to public opinion, even if it is wrong. > Nathan's respone: Dale, are you stating that Monsanto > belives that public opinion is wrong about this issue > or that you think public opinion is wrong? I mainly meant that Monsanto thinks the public is wrong about this. But, I do too. (Well, I have to qualify that a little, I don't like the idea of marketing Terminated seed into subsistence agriculture areas where farmers may want, or need, to save their own seed). > Shouldn't corporations be accountable to the public > which grants them the right to exist in the first place? Besides the ethical imperative, if corporations don't please their customers they won't survive. > The second (snipped from Dale's post): >> Shouldn't you be more gracious in victory? After all, >> they are doing what environmentalists wanted! > Nathan's response: My understanding of the opposition to > Terminator technology was that it represented a broad > spectrum of civil society from countries around the world. > I would hardly give the credit entirely to environmentalists. I know, I know, but what happened IS what environmentalists wanted. So, why the sour attitude? I guess some think this is part of a big conspiracy, and that Monsanto has other, unspeakably evil plans to destroy agriculture. I think the truth has more to do with the technical focus of the engineering mentality: >Comprehending Engineers - Chapter One > Two engineering students were walking across campus > when one said, "Where did you get such a great bike?" > The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking minding > my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike. > She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes > and said, "Take what you want." "The second engineer nodded > approvingly, "Good choice; The clothes probably wouldn't have fit." > > I look forward to any thoughts. > > > > > Nathan Boone > Agricultural Consultant > 200-B Callecita Place > Santa Fe, NM 87501 > Tel: 505.992.0649 > Fax: 508.302.7761 > Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, > use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 19:22:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04228 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26268 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:50:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu (IDENT:0@mhub1.tc.umn.edu [160.94.5.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26207 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amethyst.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu with ESMTP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:49:27 -0500 Received: from [134.84.43.56] by amethyst.tc.umn.edu for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:49:27 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Sheri C. Huerd" Subject: FWD: Bt corn transfer to actinomycetes Reply-To: Sheri C Huerd Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:47:15 X-Tick-Nemesis: Chairface Chippendale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2978 Some background information and an attempt to answer Chuck Benbrook's question about Bt corn transferring genes to actinomycetes: Bt corn and cotton are already being grown, and are for sale (unlabelled as GMO's) in a store near you. Actinomycetes are very interesting organisms, responsible for many of our antibiotics. They live and act much like fungi, but are classified closer to bacteria because they are prokaryotic. As far as the genetic maleability of actinomycetes, I don't think it's much different from the traditional Gram positive bacteria. Gram + bacteria are a bit less likely to exchange genes because they seem unable or much less likely than Gram - bacteria to undergo "conjugation," or a physical attachment for the purpose of exchanging DNA. The bad news is, YES, it should be possible for actinomycetes or bacteria or even some fungi to take up genes from genetically modified plants, because they can indeed incorporate DNA that is just floating around in the soil. I would think that the presence of this gene in plant roots and residues would make it possible for it to be released into the soil and taken up in this way. This is called "transformation." The good news is that extra genes are "expensive" to keep. Every new chunk of DNA a cell takes in is one more thing it has to replicate in order to reproduce. That requires energy and nutrients that are always in low supply. Because of this, generally organisms will only keep DNA that is useful. The fact that the Bt genes originally came from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis tells us that at least for some organisms this is a useful gene. Is it useful to many of them? Hard to say. If it was that useful, it is likely that more of them would already have it, since it was available in their neighbors for some time. Also, I think transformation would be uncommon because DNA is good food. Micro-organisms and their externally-released enzymes generally will just treat the loose DNA as a foodsource, breaking it down into nucleotides and sub-gene chunks that are not useful as new genetic material. It is generally thought that transformation is more likely in clayey soils and in tucked-away micro-crevices where DNA has been physically protected from all the enzymes that are free in the soil. It should also be easier for plasmids to survive than pieces of DNA strands. Plasmids are a small circular piece of DNA, generally found in bacteria but also in some fungi, esp. yeasts. Since they are a closed package they are a little less susceptible to enzyme attack. Plasmids that are transferred or taken up by a new microbe are also more likely to survive this process and be utilized as genetic material rather than food because they are an intact self-replicating set of genes rather than just a chunk of potentially genetic stuff. Last time I checked, plants did not have plasmids (although to be honest I'm not sure what they're doing to them anymore), so I would think these new genes are incorporated into the plants' normal genome. This way, it is less likely that of the thousands of genes and "scrap" DNA, any individual important gene would survive the death and decay of the plant material, and ingestion by microbes, to subsequently be incorporated into their genomes and actually be expressed. This all does not answer the question of whether it happens. On an individual "this plant's genes transferred to that microbe" basis, one could safely say "No" this will not happen. On the larger scale of trillions of corn plants and zillions of microbes, my answer would be "maybe." Lynne Carpenter-Boggs Soil Microbiologist USDA-ARS 803 Iowa Ave. Morris, MN 56267 320-589-3411 x141 FAX 320-589-3787 lcboggs@mail.mrsars.usda.gov ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: FWD: Question re Actinomycetes Author: Sheri C Huerd at Internet Date: 10/4/1999 4:34 PM I recently read that actinomycetes have some properties of both bacteria and fungi. I would appreciate any of the molecular or soil biologists among us to share their thoughts re what this might mean re the likelihood of horizontal gene transfer to actinomycetes from exposure to the biotech vectors/promoters/marker genes that get into the soil via residues and/or root exudates. I am wondering whether anyone has looked into this? Seems like a good time given that GMO-corn expressing Bt through roots could be as little as one season away (first approval could be in time for crop year 2002 according to DowAgroSciences). chuck Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ----- Forwarded Message Ends Here ----- Sheri Huerd 411 Borlaug Hall 1991 Upper Buford Circle University of Minnesota St. Paul, MN 55108 612-625-1251 ----- Forwarded Message Ends Here ----- Sheri Huerd 411 Borlaug Hall 1991 Upper Buford Circle University of Minnesota St. Paul, MN 55108 612-625-1251 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 19:38:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04419 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10963 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:59:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10869 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12696 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:45:18 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:54:02 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, ps@erinet.com Subject: Organic Farming is EXTREEMLY Cheaper -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA10883 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2979 This discussion goes back at least to the 1976 study by Willie Lockeretz, Barry Commoner and company; I think that these studies and surveys have been repeated enough at this point that we might legitimately say that the differences in the two systems are a null sum. That is, that generally speaking a modest decrease in productivity in the organic units is offset by a lower purchased input figure. So what is being alluded to here? Do you honestly propose that the *organic* system might be substituted across the board for the conventional systems? If this be your thought let me point out two things: 1) rightly the systems being discussed include livestock, not many conventional systems include livestock these days. 2) the hidden input, that is very expensive, is management (I am convinced that this is what happened to the old moniker of Low Input Sustainable Agriculture and is why we are burdened today with the term Sustainable Agriculture). This management input is knowledge/experience based and I do not see the talent being developed today to shoulder the management load of even a small increase in the organic or sustainable systems which are generally romantically discussed on this list server. I might add that the strongest proponents of a wholesale conversion are those who are nowhere near the field of practice (i.e. a farm). I hope that Ann Clark will stay with this string for a while because I know from some of her past posts that she is thinking about this challenge. Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 20:18:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05081 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08735 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:45:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08684 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from STEVED.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) with SMTP id SAA09095 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:43:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910052343.SAA09095@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:40:43 +0000 Subject: Pest Mgmt Resources, Brown rot on peaches, Planned Biodiversity Reply-to: steved@ncatark.uark.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2980 SAN-netters, In my previous post on brown rot of peaches, I shared the view that climate is a limiting factor with regards to organic production in the Humid East. I should add that I am very confident that peach TREES and peach LEAVES can be grown by organic methods -- especially as it relates to peach leaf curl and soil fertility and weed control and irrigation and pruning -- but it is the brown rot and plum curculio that effect peach FRUIT which significantly challenges organic production at a commercial level. Among jazz musicians, there is a saying: "First you learn to play classical, then jazz." Similarly, in sustainable pest management it is helpful to look at the conventional--standard pest literature to see what you're dealing with. After you have know what the standard pests and procedures are, you can determine what your options are in terms of altering cultural practices and using least-toxic pest control materials within the context of an alternative farming system that aims to reduce or eliminate synthetic pesticides. Here are a few websites and resources that can be very helpful as you navigate the ocean of pesticide data in search of information useful to the sustainable--organic approach: 1. Fungicide Benefits Assessment: Fruits & Nut Crops - East. 1991. By Kenneth Hickey of Pennsylvania State University. National Agricultural Pesticide Impact Assessment Program (NAPIAP). 244 p. Summarizes the total acreage and economic impact of peaches and nectaries in eastern and western states. Reviews the impact of 15 fungicides on peach production (including copper and sulfur which organic growers use). "The application of fungicides is necessary in all regions where eight or more fungal and two bacterial pathogens commonly occur. The incidence and severity of each disease varies with the environmental conditions in each region, thus more intensive fungicide usage is essential in the more humid eastern orchards. Brown rot is prevalent in both eastern and western orchards and may produce 75%-90% loss if not controlled. Peach scab incidence varies from 50%-100% in the mid-Atlantic states where losses may be as high as 50%. Two major bacterial diseases that produce branch cankers, defoliation, and fruit spots in some eastern orchards can cause losses of 10%-50% if not controlled." 2. USDA's OPMP/PIAP Office of Pest Mgmt/Pesticide Impact Assessement Program http://ipmwww.ncsu.edu/opmppiap/ This is the USDA website that contains a very comprehensive review -- pest by pest and crop by crop, with detailed pesticide use. An excellent new tool !!! A very modern and responsive approach from the USDA. Go to.... Crop Profiles // OPMP-PIAP http://ipmwww.ncsu.edu/opmppiap/subcrp.htm Completed Crop Profiles, by State/Territory Crop Profile Status, by Crop Crop Profile Status, by State/Territory Who Uses Crop Profiles and How Also see.... Pest Management / IPM Newsletters in U. S. States and Territories http://ipmwww.ncsu.edu/opmppiap/ipmnews.htm On-line pest management newsletters listed state by state 3. Hawaii Pesticide Information Retrieval System http://pestworld.stjohn.hawaii.edu/cfdocs/test/hpirs.htm Normally, it requires a fee-based subscription to NPIRS to obtain this kind of information. This Hawaii database is a backdoor way to obtain it for free. Enter the pesticide product you are looking for (including many organically-acceptable pesticides like copper, soft pesticides, biorationals, etc.) to get Trade Names, crop labels, target pest labeled, etc. If you need a quick glimpse at what is really happening in the world of pest control options, this is the sort of database that gives you a quick picture. 4. EPA Office of Pesticide Programs Biopesticide Active Ingredients http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/biopesticides/biop_ai_classes.htm ****This is an EPA website still under development as far as complete data, but the layout and framework to provide this sort of information is very good. E.g., bacteria, fungi, repellants, etc. "Biopesticides (also known as biological pesticides) are certain types of pesticides derived from such natural materials as animals, plants, bacteria, and certain minerals. For example, canola oil and baking soda have pesticidal applications and are considered biopesticides." 5. Commercial Biocontrol Products for Use Against Soilborne Crop Diseases USDA's The Biocontrol of Plant Diseases Laboratory (BPDL) http://www.barc.usda.gov/psi/bpdl/bpdlprod/bioprod.html This is the USDA website that provides a comprehensive list of biocontrols for plant pathogens. Very practical, with data briefly summarized in a user-friendly format for: Biocontrol Organism, Target Pathogen/Disease, Crop, Formulation, Application Method, and Manufacturer/Distributor. 6. Methyl Bromide Alternative Newsletter http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/np/mba/mebrhp.htm This is the USDA website that contains back issues of the Methyl Bromide Alternative Newsletter. A good place to surf through research trials using cultural management practices, soil solarization, steam, organic amendments, composts, cover crops, and least-toxic pest control products. For example, check out: Research for MeBr Alternatives May Benefit Organic Growers http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/np/mba/oct99/organic.htm In addition, there are a number of other websites with good information on pest management. That is another list altogether -- as a starting point check out Related Sites on the ATTRA web page -- but here is one that stands out as a jewel on the web to anybody who appreciates an ecologically-based approach to pest management, from commercial farmer to urban gardener: 7. Biological Control: A Guide to Natural Enemies in North America Cornell University http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/ A wonderful on-line resource guide to beneficial insects, with color photos and summaries. A very useful tool when used in association with farmscaping (i.e., planning your farm with cover crops, hedgerows, and strip cropping to enhance beneficial insect habitat). Speaking of "planned biodiversity" with respect to farmscaping and ecological design=permaculture..... did you see the special issue on Invertebrate Biodiversity: Bioindicators of Sustainable Landscapes in the journal "Agriculture, Ecosystems and Environment"? Miguel A. Altieri's "The ecological role of biodiversity in agroecosystems" is another classic -- especially those mind-expanding diagrams that illustrate the COMPONENTS (predators and parasites, earthworms, soil microflora) FUNCTIONS (nutrient cycling, decomposition, predation, disease suppression) and ENHANCEMENT STRATEGIES (intercropping, agroforestry, rotations, cover crops, composting, green manuring, organic matter amendments) of biodiversity in agroecosystems -- but don't miss the papers on above-ground insects, bacteria, mycorrhizae, protazoa, mites, ants, and other creatures including pollinators. What, you didn't know these articles in "Agriculture, Ecosystems and Environment" are available for free downloading in .pdf format as a service from Elsevier until December 31st? Well by gosh and by golly, check it out! Agriculture, Ecosystems and Environmen http://ww1.elsevier.nl/locate/agee That's all, happy surfing! Steve Diver ATTRA http://www.attra.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 20:29:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05230 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16625 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:56:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16589 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13475 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp50.epix.net [205.238.243.50]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999100101/PL) with ESMTP id TAA02821; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FA91DC.839081D@epix.net> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:03:41 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Rogers CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, ps@erinet.com Subject: Re: Organic Farming is EXTREEMLY Cheaper -Reply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2981 If the title to this thread was true across the board, organic agriculture would be the "conventional" system today. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 20:31:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05277 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13520 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:50:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13282 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:49:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp50.epix.net [205.238.243.50]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999100101/PL) with ESMTP id TAA01909; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FA9072.CA2334AA@epix.net> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 19:57:38 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ellen Rainwalker CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic farming cheaper? References: <199910050153.SAA22880@ark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2982 I think Ann is right that the organic dairy farms are cheaper to operate. If I was a dairy farmer, I'd seriously consider going organic. But, growing produce (veggies) is entirely different then dairy and it would be misleading to equate costs of production for both systems and apply the results one for the other. Ellen Rainwalker wrote: > Organic fertilizers and pest controls cost more, cover crop seeds > have to be purchased, and there is a much higher cost for labour for > fertilizing, making & spreading compost, weeding and other tasks that are > usually done with chemicals on conventional farms, Not much of this is done on an organic dairy farm. I have several organic veggie friends who rely on the premium they get for their produce to make up for the increased costs of production- most notably, labor. I do think their are some good organic produce growers who can indeed grow crops cheaper then the conventional guys, but it's been my observation that this is rare. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 20:35:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05355 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20024 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:03:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19976 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13541 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d30.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.158]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA65316 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501bf0f90$927aeca0$9e7a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Organic Farming EXTREEMLY cheaper (reply to Ted) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:20:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2983 Hi Ted, I'm not sure exactly what you are saying when you say "nowhere near the field of practice(i.e. a farm)". Are you saying that no "Real Farmers" are near the field of practice, that is field of practicing organic and/or sustainable agriculture? If so, I am one of 3 or 4 farmers in my area that farm sustainable. Is this what you meant? Thanks, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 21:13:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06027 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10377 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:33:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10299 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DigitalArk.ark.com (io1p21.ark.com [209.53.216.53]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with ESMTP id RAA10197 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:31:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199910060031.RAA10197@ark.com> From: "Ellen Rainwalker" To: Subject: Re: Organic cheaper? Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:27:40 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2984 Thank you to all those who have replied to my comments about organic farming not being cheaper than conventional, both on and off the list. Perhaps I should have said "market gardening". I have grown organic produce (vegetables) for 8 years. I do not raise any animals due to space limitations, and for other reasons. I guess I am a market gardener, not a farmer. Perhaps organic farming may be cheaper for dairy farmers or farmers who grow grains & soybeans, but it has not been my experience, or that of other organic produce growers I know, that it is cheaper for those who grow produce, especially intensively grown speciality produce (salad mix, etc.). Saving your own seeds sounds great, but try doing it with 100 different varieties of vegetables, many of which will cross with each other. Maybe okay if it's soybeans or something like that. Not very practical when growing many different crops and different varieties. It is also often not practical to raise animals when doing small-scale vegetable growing due to space limitations, (not to mention the farmer's time and energy) therefore organic inputs must be purchased, and the ones that are permitted are not cheap. Also, if cattle are raised on a small acreage, feed must be grown for them elsewhere and purchased, and where do you buy organic feed? So I mostly use kelp meal, fish meal, etc. which I have to buy. It is pretty much impossible to make enough compost to last a year. Even manure costs money around here, if you can even find it. Land here (Vancouver Island) costs $200,000 or more for 5 acres, much more for larger farms, because there is only a small amount of arable land in British Columbia. So most farms are small - maybe you'd call them market gardens. Organic regulations also call for buffer zones between roads, neighbouring farms, etc. cutting down the area that can be used for farming. I suppose whether organic farming is cheaper than conventional depends a lot on where it is and what kind of farming, but I'm still interested in hearing about other peoples' experiences with this, especially as regards to intensive veggie farming. I went into it thinking it would be cheaper, but that has not proved to be true for me or for my friends. Ellen Rainwalker To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 22:06:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07118 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22258 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22249 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14880 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:36:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d80.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.208]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA00912 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301bf0f9d$cf1364a0$d07a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Organic Farming Cheaper(Steve) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:55:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2985 Hi Steve, You may be correct on the vegie side of the coin. That is one I know little if anything about. Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 22:10:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07186 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22294 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:38:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from moe.indy.net (moe.indy.net [199.3.65.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22271 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from richmo.indy.net (ip209-183-86-18.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.18]) by moe.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA03645; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:36:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37FA5F2A.2FF5@indy.net> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:27:22 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E. Ann Clark" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic farming cheaper? References: <199910050153.SAA22880@ark.com> <37FA08FB.13508164@uoguelph.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2986 E. Ann Clark wrote: > you wanted evidence that organic produce actually > costs less to produce. > > compared a group of 8 organic dairy operators > > I cannot speak for other commodities, but this study supports the contention > that organic food is cheaper to produce. Ann > > > Folks, First and foremost, cheap (extremely cheap) conventionally produced food is what got us into this environmental, economic , and social agricultural nightmare that world farmers now enjoy. So , if we want an organic agriculture system that gives an organic hog farmer $30/cwt for hogs when it cost them 33 to produce ( conventional 38), I'd say lets go ahead and proclaim "organic is cheaper". Secondly, I think dairy is probably the worst possible sector to compare production costs. Conventional dairy farmers make Imelda (sp?) Marcos look like a spendthrift. Ext and brain trusts at the universities have led them done one sad and desolate road. They and agribusiness have "created" one unnecessary expense after another. When it takes me on the average of 3-5 months longer to get fat cattle to market weight, I have a hard time saying it is cheaper to produce organic beef. I have trimmed my inputs to legume seed (I save all my other seed including op corn, wheat rye, barely, beans, buckwheat), mineral blocks, and fence wire and it still cost me 65 cents a pound to raise an animal that I sell for 85 cents on the hoof ( conventional 61 cents). My processed and wrapped frozen beef therefore averages about 3.00/lb for my customers ( conventional beef at the store averages about 2.60 for all cuts including specials, etc.) My customers are willing to pay more because of what the beef does not include ( hormone, antibiotics, pesticides, paraciticides, and likely a lot less EC 157) as well as what it does include in nutritional and trace mineral content. So what do I make, about 210 bucks per animal after 2 years. Considering time it takes me to make hay and grow feed for the winter, rotational graze, mend fences, maintain buildings and machinery, I make about 3.50/hr. to produce this "not cheap" food. No wonder most farmers could make a better living shining shoes. "Not that there is anything wrong with that." Food will be cheap as long as farmers accept a substandard wage and roi. Organic food is not cheaper because most organic farmers have made a decision that about 3.50/ hr will do for a while. Yet, someday I may be able to afford indoor plumbing since my cost of production is so low. -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 22:40:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07540 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17495 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:20:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from moe.indy.net (moe.indy.net [199.3.65.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17411 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from richmo.indy.net (ip209-183-86-18.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.18]) by moe.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA07787; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:17:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37FA68D8.21F@indy.net> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 21:08:40 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland References: <852567F6.00659AEC.00@EPAHUB2.RTP.EPA.GOV> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2987 WILLIAM, I don't know of many farmers who are interested in keeping their land under water for even short periods of time. Ostensibly, this is another of many band aid approachs to the real problem. That problem is that since most watersheds ,say in the midwest, are probably over 80 per cent agriculture and most of these farms are not interested in increasing infiltration and/or water holding capacity you are going to experience an increase in frequency and severity of flooding. Your agency should be a proponent in promoting organic agriculture which does exactly what was previously enumerated and what conventional agribusiness growers totally disregard. If I have a problem , I prefer to address it rather than its symptoms. later, -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 22:43:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07578 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23019 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:25:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22859 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (dynamic21.pm05.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.21]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id TAA20135; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: , "Ellen Rainwalker" Cc: Subject: RE: Organic farming cheaper? Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:23:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <37FA9072.CA2334AA@epix.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2988 Regarding organic dairy - if it were cheaper (more profitable) more farms would be doing it. As it is, there is industry growth, but 1) feed costs are still 30-100% more expensive for organic over conventional feeds and 2) the market infrastructure is not sufficiently developed to provide the security necessary to convince more farmers and processors to undergo the expensive transition. Dairy is a different animal (as it were) than produce, with entirely different considerations. - Michael Straus Beyond Organic info@beyondorganic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Steve Groff Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 4:58 PM To: Ellen Rainwalker Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic farming cheaper? I think Ann is right that the organic dairy farms are cheaper to operate. If I was a dairy farmer, I'd seriously consider going organic. But, growing produce (veggies) is entirely different then dairy and it would be misleading to equate costs of production for both systems and apply the results one for the other. Ellen Rainwalker wrote: > Organic fertilizers and pest controls cost more, cover crop seeds > have to be purchased, and there is a much higher cost for labour for > fertilizing, making & spreading compost, weeding and other tasks that are > usually done with chemicals on conventional farms, Not much of this is done on an organic dairy farm. I have several organic veggie friends who rely on the premium they get for their produce to make up for the increased costs of production- most notably, labor. I do think their are some good organic produce growers who can indeed grow crops cheaper then the conventional guys, but it's been my observation that this is rare. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 5 23:45:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08985 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA29841 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:24:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29836 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:24:28 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:23:05 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:23:04 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.76] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1612343c ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:22:52 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991005221147.00838840@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 22:11:47 -0500 To: Subject: Dennis Avery's Brother? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2989 >From the Leopold Letter article about nitrates in drinking water: "In the July 1999 issue of the journal Environmental Health Perspectives, Alex Avery of the Hudson Institute argues that evidence from clinical evaluation of 40 years of blue baby syndrome cases indicates that environmental sources of nitrate (particularly drinking water) may have little to do with development of the condition." Is the Hudson Institute a family affair? One brother to tell you to use nitrate fertilizer and another to tell not to worry when it pollutes your drinking water? Mike Miller >From: leopold@exnet.iastate.edu >Date: 5 Oct 99 09:26:06 -0600 >Subject: Leopold Center newsletter > > >FALL LEOPOLD LETTER EXPLORES HOT TOPICS > >The Fall issue of the Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture's >quarterly "Leopold Letter" explores a number of hot agricultural topics, >including the profitability of genetically modified crops, nitrate in >water, and a profile of southwest Iowa farmer Steve Williams looking for a >balance between farm size and the availability of labor. The issue also >offers an in-depth exploration of Aldo Leopold's "A Sand County Almanac" on >the 50th anniversary of its publication. The newsletter is available free >by contacting the Leopold Center, (515) 294-3711; or by visiting its web >site, http://www.leopold.iastate.edu. > > > >---------------------- >Richard Pirog >Education Coordinator >Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture >209 Curtiss Hall Iowa State University >Ames, Iowa 50011-3120 >515 294-1854 >FAX: 515 294-9696 >e-mail: leopold@exnet.iastate.edu > Web page URL: http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/ > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 4 16:57:32 1999 -0400 Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09469 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dirtfarmer ([63.23.238.150]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991004205658.KGAO15731@dirtfarmer> for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 20:56:58 +0000 Message-ID: <000201bf0eab$5a090400$96ee173f@dirtfarmer> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." To: Subject: Plant propagation book Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:59:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2990 You could consider the RHS (Royal Horticultural Society) book on Plant Propagation by Philip McMillan Browse. I get the impression that the PNW climate is quite similar to ours here in Ireland (only wetter:-) It covers all the techniques of propagation - and has a good index :-) which recommends the best technique for many varieties, including annuals, perennials, trees, shrubs etc. ISBN 1 85732 903 1 From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 00:49:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09713 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01067 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:12:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01060 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:12:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from STEVED.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) with SMTP id XAA14742 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:10:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910060410.XAA14742@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:07:18 +0000 Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition Reply-to: steved@ncatark.uark.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2991 >I can't recall whether this has been addressed in this forum before >or not...but an organic farmer I am working with recalls a federal >study which found that organic food is superior in some nutrients to >conventional food. She says she recalls that some nutrients were in >the hundreds and even thousands of percent greater in organic food. > >Does anyone know if this study exists and where to get a copy? >Thanks. > >Mark The Sanet archives contain a number of posts relating to the nutritional quality of organic foods. In addition to references previously posted, here are three more sources: 1. "The Healing Power of Minerals, Special Nutrients and Trace Elements" by Paul Bergner (1997, Prima Publishing, Rocklin, CA) includes USDA figures that show a decline in mineral and vitamin content of several fruits and vegetables between 1914, 1963, and 1992. Table 1 is a summary of mineral decreases in fruits and vegetables over a 30-year period, adapted from Bergner's book. Table 1. Average changes in the mineral content of some fruits and vegetables*, 1963-1992 Mineral Average % Change Calcium -29.82 Iron -32.00 Magnesium -21.08 Phosphorus -11.09 Potassium -6.48 * Fruits and vegetables measured: oranges, apples, bananas, carrots, potatoes, corn, tomatoes, celery, romaine lettuce, broccoli, iceberg lettuce, collard greens, and chard 2. In England, Anne Marie-Mayer compared food composition over a 50-year period using data from the UK Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (MAFF). Her study, "Historical Changes in the Mineral Content of Fruits and Vegetables" was presented at the Agricultural Production and Nutrition conference held at Tufts University School of Nutrition Science and Policy on March 19-21, 1997. Table 2, adapted from Marie-Mayer's paper, summarizes the average ratio of nutrient content and dry matter of 20 vegetables and 20 fruits. A ratio of 0.81 for Ca, for example, means that over an approximately 50-year period the average content of calcium in vegetables has declined to 81% of the original level. Table 2. Average ratio of mineral content and dry matter (new/old) for vegetables and 20 fruits* Ca Mg Fe Cu Na K P D.M. Vegetable ratio 0.81* 0.65* 0.78 0.19* 0.57* 0.86 0.94 0.97 Fruit ratio 1.00 0.89* 0.68* 0.64* 0.90 0.80* 0.99 0.91 The symbol * indicates a statistical difference 3. In 1997 an extensive literature review was published: "A comparison of organically and conventionally grown foods -- results of a review of the relevant literature" by Katrin Woese, Dirk Lange, Christian Boess, and Klaus Werner Bogl. 1997. J. Sci. Food Agric. Vol. 74, 281-293. The authors are with: Federal Institute for Health Protection of Consumers and Veterinary Medicine, Division 2, Chemistry and Technology of Foods and Commodities, PO Box 330013, D-14191, Berlin, Germany. The review summarizes and evaluates the results of more than 150 investigations (published between 1926 and 1994) comparing the quality of conventionally and organically produced food, or of foods produced by different fertilization systems. The review is particularly noteworthy to those of us readers here in the United States, because it looks like better than 90% of the citations are from German-language journals and literature. This article does a good job of addressing the parameters used to evaluate differences item by item. One passage worth noting: "Only the more or less correlative results of the feed selection tests permit a general conclusion: animals distinguish between the foods on offer from the various agricultural systems and almost exclusively prefer organic produce." ============================================= As an aside, this is what Dr. William Albrecht emphasized in his work as a soil scientist at the University of Missouri; i.e., animal feeding trials to ascertain the true quality of feedstuffs, writing: "cows are capable chemists" "as a chemist by experience and survival, not by academic training, the cow led the nomad over fertile soils" "we need to start observing and judging the cow as she is a chemist on the hoof guiding her own nutrition" ============================================== Other findings: *Lower nitrates in organically produced or fertilised vegetables. *Lower pesticide residues in organic fruit and vegetables *Higher dry matter content in organic products *Feed experiments showed animals preferentially selected organic produce, but where fertility parameters and rearing performance were determined the results were contradictory Steve Diver ATTRA http://www.attra.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 01:37:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10120 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04403 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:05:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04399 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:05:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.138] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:03:16 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:01:03 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <140.991006@acnet.net> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FWD: Bt corn transfer to actinomycetes In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2992 Hello again (it's been a while), Tuesday, October 05, 1999, 10:47:15 AM, Lynne Carpenter-Boggs or Sheri Huerd provided extensive background information and what I consider to be a very clear, informative, well founded (and enjoyable) attempt to answer Chuck Benbrook's question about Bt corn transferring genes to actinomycetes; which culminated in the conclusion posed by her last 3 paragraphs. It seems that as with many other areas of importance relative to the public good, the research needed was never done. Her last paragraph particularly, implies a significant question: Why wasn't this issue - as well as other similar issues of equal importance, defined before the seed in question was released at large? That is a rhetorical question. Uninformed legislators and vested economic interests are part of the answer. Perhaps a better question is, what can be done to provide the focus needed in order to create the recognition (in a strategic and dynamic few, at least), that the wrong (or deficient) priorities are taking precedence in matters of public policy. The current lack of knowledge is really not an adequate license for running the risks involved, regardless of who is "right". On the other hand, as Dale pointed out, (positive) things ARE happening in this vein (even if they're not positive to everyone). I myself find it hard to argue with the fact the caution should take precedence over commerce, until the answers are finally in. The research can and should be done before release, even if that means an extensive delay. The burden of proof has got to be placed where it belongs. There are many other (and many feel better) alternatives, the companies involved were not exactly going broke beforehand, and any investment made by them in the technology was not forced on them, nor were their motives (I suspect) all lily white. Douglas Hinds CeDeCoR, A.C. Cordoba, Veracruz dmhinds@acnet.net ----------------------- > It should also be easier for plasmids to survive than pieces of DNA > strands. Plasmids are a small circular piece of DNA, generally found in > bacteria but also in some fungi, esp. yeasts. Since they are a closed > package they are a little less susceptible to enzyme attack. Plasmids that > are transferred or taken up by a new microbe are also more likely to > survive this process and be utilized as genetic material rather than food > because they are an intact self-replicating set of genes rather than just a > chunk of potentially genetic stuff. > Last time I checked, plants did not have plasmids (although to be honest > I'm not sure what they're doing to them anymore), so I would think these > new genes are incorporated into the plants' normal genome. This way, it is > less likely that of the thousands of genes and "scrap" DNA, any individual > important gene would survive the death and decay of the plant material, and > ingestion by microbes, to subsequently be incorporated into their genomes > and actually be expressed. > This all does not answer the question of whether it happens. On an > individual "this plant's genes transferred to that microbe" basis, one > could safely say "No" this will not happen. On the larger scale of > trillions of corn plants and zillions of microbes, my answer would be > "maybe." > Lynne Carpenter-Boggs > Soil Microbiologist > USDA-ARS > 803 Iowa Ave. > Morris, MN 56267 > 320-589-3411 x141 > FAX 320-589-3787 > lcboggs@mail.mrsars.usda.gov > ______________________________ Reply Separator > Subject: FWD: Question re Actinomycetes > Author: Sheri C Huerd at Internet > Date: 10/4/1999 4:34 PM > I recently read that actinomycetes have some properties of both > bacteria and fungi. I would appreciate any of the molecular or soil > biologists among us to share their thoughts re what this might mean re the > likelihood of horizontal gene transfer to actinomycetes from exposure to > the biotech vectors/promoters/marker genes that get into the soil via > residues and/or root exudates. > I am wondering whether anyone has looked into this? Seems like a > good time given that GMO-corn expressing Bt through roots could be as > little as one season away (first approval could be in time for crop year > 2002 according to DowAgroSciences). > chuck > Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com > Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net > 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net > Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 > 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) > ----- Forwarded Message Ends Here ----- > Sheri Huerd > 411 Borlaug Hall > 1991 Upper Buford Circle > University of Minnesota > St. Paul, MN 55108 > 612-625-1251 > ----- Forwarded Message Ends Here ----- > Sheri Huerd > 411 Borlaug Hall > 1991 Upper Buford Circle > University of Minnesota > St. Paul, MN 55108 > 612-625-1251 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 05:33:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12250 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA01939 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:59:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01846 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01429; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:58:51 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25539; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:59:12 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 10:52:08 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 10:51:30 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: Ted Rogers , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:51:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition -Reply Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <14E38BB28F4@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2993 hello ted, >together to few data to say any thing more than "there may be some >evidence" any one who would use this limited information to make >some sort of market claim is suicidal and as I have stated both >publicly and privately the organic industry certainly is that. well, here in germany at least the data for fewer pesticide residues in (certified!!) organic food are VERY WELL established and highly significant. data for mineral nutrients are unclear. that seems to be logic, because if you use less nitrogen, you consequently have dry matter contents. and if you see data without any hint (as in a lot of publications!!) whether they are based on d.m or f.m. or simply the number of fruits.. the rest ?? well, i once asked the question here, what is food quality? noone did answer until now, NONE of the TWO OPPOSING sites.... and both might know why. in medicine even the status of such a simple and basic thing like ascorbic acid (vit.c) as a true vitamin is discussed very conversely. klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 05:33:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12254 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA15705 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:45:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15577 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 04:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01281; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:44:39 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25487; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:45:21 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 10:38:18 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 10:37:40 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: "E. Ann Clark" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:37:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <14DFDAB2C12@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2994 hello ann, (maybe the others may also have an answer to this) i know, that you're on a sabbathical, may i nevertheless ask one or two questions ? >Organic food costs more to the consumer largely because of price >hikes at the retail end. Organic is still a small player, unable >to consistently occupy shelf space year-around, look >"just-picked" 7 days a week, and various other scale concerns >that occupy the minds of retailers. if you were an organic grower (let's assume vegetables or fruit) and you know, you can't compete - meaning you have nothing to sell during the winter months - with supermarkets: how would you react ? a) it's not worth driving to the market with nothing but celery or cabbage in winter, you do not sell enough to pay for the gasoline... b) consumers usually are used to buy most of their food from ONE farmer (a certain market stand from someone they have trust in). if you quit the market for a "winter time-out", they might go to the supermarket AND (that's the dangerous thing) might decide to stay supermarket shoppers even in the next season. so the farmer has two options: a) stay in the market with a (maybe extremely reduced assortement) and very likely losing money or having an hourly income not worth the time spent b) switch to sell non-organic food from southern countries and (that's important for the confidance) to clearly tell your clients, that this is conventional food i know organic growers, who changed to option b), because they think it very important not to loose contact with their usual clients. and immendiately some other organic growers accuse them to negate the "spirit" of organic farming. how would you react and what would be wiser in your opinion ? > As the volume of organic produce grows, and as > retailers cope with the notion that year-around strawberries are > not essential, this will be less of an issue. do you really see any trend, that consumers, once they have "tasted blood", are willing to reduce their desires (which, as can be seen in every supermarket, can very well be fulfilled without EVIDENT social and environmental costs) ?? i have strong doubts, but that certainly does not mean, that it really can't be achieved with better information and with more and more negative environmental consequences, people have to deal with... regards klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From WIEGAND@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de Wed Oct 6 06:49:54 1999 Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12603 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03414; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:50:50 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26530; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:51:11 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:44:07 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:43:58 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: london@metalab.unc.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:43:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Gov't Out of Control Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-Confirm-Reading-To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <15018937523@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2995 >DEA Drug Hawks Swoop Down on Birdseed ---- Best Law of the Past Two Decades Selling marihuana may actually be legal in Arizona thanks to an obscure law passed in 1983. In that year, the state legislature thought it had a clever idea. Not only would they arrest marihuana dealers, they would also charge them with selling without a "Cannabis and Controlled Substances Dealers License" and failing to pay a state tax of $10 per ounce. Many years later Peter Wilson, chair of the state National Organization for the Reform of Marihuana Laws, decided to take the law to court. He argued that the state could not have such a perfect Catch-22, it could not first make you pay ($100) for the privilege of dealing pot and then arrest you for it. By issuing licenses to sell marihuana, he argued, the state had tacitly accepted it's legality. The court agreed. The case has since become a legal potato, bouncing from court to court. But now for the rest of the story.... Guess who made it possible for marihuana selling to become legal? Guess who opened the door to lives of terrible addiction? Yes, it was a Republican legislature. Shocking but true. (NYT 10/6/97.) ------- klaus From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 06:53:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12650 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA17797 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:11:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from curly.indy.net (curly.indy.net [199.3.65.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17704 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from richmo.indy.net (ip209-183-86-174.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.174]) by curly.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA13032; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:10:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37FAD78B.791D@indy.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 05:00:59 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Dennis Avery's Brother? References: <3.0.6.32.19991005221147.00838840@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2996 Mike, Actually, it's a family tradition, father son duo. Evidently, Alex grew up seeing how easy it was to prostitute oneself and make a decent living that he's following in the old man's scat. -- Later, Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 07:02:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12707 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA27437 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:26:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from curly.indy.net (curly.indy.net [199.3.65.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27423 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from richmo.indy.net (ip209-183-86-174.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.174]) by curly.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA13550; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:24:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37FADAFE.370B@indy.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 05:15:42 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PetersFarm@aol.com CC: farmsted@cfw.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Breaking news/Terminator References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2997 PetersFarm@aol.com wrote: > > WHEEEEEE! > (Does anyone else have the terminator technology?) Ann, It's half-owned by USDA ( I guess that's you and me) who paid for most of the R&D. Later, -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 07:30:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12888 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08813 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:43:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08730 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03338 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:43:33 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26471 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:44:15 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:37:12 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:36:18 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: london@metalab.unc.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:36:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Gov't Out of Control Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <14FF7E10B12@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2998 >DEA Drug Hawks Swoop Down on Birdseed ---- Best Law of the Past Two Decades Selling marihuana may actually be legal in Arizona thanks to an obscure law passed in 1983. In that year, the state legislature thought it had a clever idea. Not only would they arrest marihuana dealers, they would also charge them with selling without a "Cannabis and Controlled Substances Dealers License" and failing to pay a state tax of $10 per ounce. Many years later Peter Wilson, chair of the state National Organization for the Reform of Marihuana Laws, decided to take the law to court. He argued that the state could not have such a perfect Catch-22, it could not first make you pay ($100) for the privilege of dealing pot and then arrest you for it. By issuing licenses to sell marihuana, he argued, the state had tacitly accepted it's legality. The court agreed. The case has since become a legal potato, bouncing from court to court. But now for the rest of the story.... Guess who made it possible for marihuana selling to become legal? Guess who opened the door to lives of terrible addiction? Yes, it was a Republican legislature. Shocking but true. (NYT 10/6/97.) ------- klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 07:31:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12892 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA14778 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:51:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14662 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03414; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:50:50 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26530; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:51:11 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:44:07 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:43:58 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: london@metalab.unc.edu, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:43:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Gov't Out of Control Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <15018937523@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2999 >DEA Drug Hawks Swoop Down on Birdseed ---- Best Law of the Past Two Decades Selling marihuana may actually be legal in Arizona thanks to an obscure law passed in 1983. In that year, the state legislature thought it had a clever idea. Not only would they arrest marihuana dealers, they would also charge them with selling without a "Cannabis and Controlled Substances Dealers License" and failing to pay a state tax of $10 per ounce. Many years later Peter Wilson, chair of the state National Organization for the Reform of Marihuana Laws, decided to take the law to court. He argued that the state could not have such a perfect Catch-22, it could not first make you pay ($100) for the privilege of dealing pot and then arrest you for it. By issuing licenses to sell marihuana, he argued, the state had tacitly accepted it's legality. The court agreed. The case has since become a legal potato, bouncing from court to court. But now for the rest of the story.... Guess who made it possible for marihuana selling to become legal? Guess who opened the door to lives of terrible addiction? Yes, it was a Republican legislature. Shocking but true. (NYT 10/6/97.) ------- klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 07:32:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12915 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06731 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:39:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06714 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03280; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:38:57 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26435; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:39:18 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:32:15 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:31:36 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: eaclark@uoguelph.ca, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:31:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: News Release from RAFI] Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <14FE3D70338@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3000 hello ann, >Following 18 months of controversy and intense popular >opposition around the world, Monsanto CEO Robert B. Shapiro has >advised Gordon Conway, President of the Rockefeller Foundation >that Monsanto has decided to abandon plans to commercialize >Terminator Technology (causing crop seed to become sterile at >harvest time). Monsanto's open letter to Rockefeller is there's one thing i do not understand: monsanto is NOT the owner of the technology-protection- patent aka "terminator". this is owned, as meanwhile we all know, by delta & pine land AND the usda. delta & pine land is NOT yet merged with monsanto (and maybe will never be). so what does shapiro meddle with other companies affairs AND esp. PROPERTY ?? why doesn't the rockefeller institute address the USDA, but instead the (even wrong !!!) company ?? and another thing: the usda (the co-owner) meanwhile has clearly stated, that they would not accept the "terminator"-technology in commercial applications. so: what happens with the common house, when a couple seperates ? yep, the lawyer costs so much money, that you will have to sell that house. so maybe shapiro is wise enough to see (provided there will ever be a merger), that a legal battle with the usda, will be a no- win-situation. the fact, that all the other life- science companies have complained (and quite unusual, they did it publicly!!) about monsanto's aggressive behavior, might have added to a rethinking of monsanto's own position. and in case of all these technology-protection systems monsanto really was the scapegoat of the other. anyone here, who believes, that you can invent AND get a patent for such a system within 3 months ? ridiculous. but when you take a look at the time, the other companies came up with own patents, you find more or less these 3 months. so monsanto (resp. d&p) was the company, who started the first test-balloon and the others were waiting for the result.... in the verminator-patent you could even read, that the patent for seed "sterilisation" by promotor/repressor/recombinase "is not desirable per se" why then did they pay the half a million for patent lawyers ?? > Under-Secretary of > Agriculture Richard Rominger told RAFI that USDA refuses to abandon > the patent it co-owns with Delta & Pine Land (a Mississippi-based seed > company in the process of being acquired by Monsanto) because it wants > to see the technology widely licensed. hey, i definitely have another paper from an official USDA representantive at home, that CLEARLY states, that the usda will NOT accept AND use this technology. does the right hand of that "company" does not know, what it's left hand is doing ???? time to cut ONE of these hands !! klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 07:35:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12927 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06839 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:39:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06819 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03284 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:39:26 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26450 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:40:18 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:33:14 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 6 Oct 99 12:32:21 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:32:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: logging Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <14FE7010746@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3001 Fairness For Logging Companies !!! In the past few years, environmental groups have adopted a tactic of bidding on Federal timber lands to preserve old growth trees from rampaging chainsaws. Clever strategy you say? Completely legal? Wrong, according to an "unauthorized" letter from Agriculture Undersecretary James Lyons denying the acceptability of `non-harvesting bids." The draft letter with Lyons signature pointed out two devastating flaws barring the non-logging of public forest tracts. First, it costs money to produce environmental impact statements on logging. The letter points out that "It would be a wasteful use of public monies and contrary to the public interest," to produce reports on logging impacts and then sell the land to non-loggers. (Think of the bureaucrats whose feelings would be hurt.) Secondly, we might be encouraging unfair competition because "non-harvesting bidders would have few, if any, operating or personnel costs..." Hardly fair to send Weyerhauser up against the economic clout of Earth First. (AP 5/15/97) klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 07:51:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13327 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA28520 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:13:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from curly.indy.net (curly.indy.net [199.3.65.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28467 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from richmo.indy.net (ip209-183-86-174.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.174]) by curly.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA15503; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:11:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37FAE5E2.496F@indy.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 06:02:10 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: "'nrboone@roadrunner.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: what environmentalists wanted! [was Breaking news/Terminator] References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF64@vela.phibred.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3002 Wilson, Dale wrote: > > > Besides the ethical imperative, if corporations don't please their customers > they won't survive. > > > I guess some think this is part of a big conspiracy, and > that Monsanto has other, unspeakably evil plans to destroy agriculture. > > > > I look forward to any thoughts. Dale, Monsanto managed to please it's customers with polychlorinated biphenyls which resisted degradation in electrical and other high temp applications. Granted "WE" were unaware of the consequences at the time. I simply think we should all be slightly more cosmopolitan by now. I truly doubt if Monsanto wants to destroy agriculture, I think they would settle for total market share, 2000% ROI, unlimited government subsidies, and complete control. If they can't get that, Terminator was likely a good short term alternative. Later, -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 07:52:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13345 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA28169 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:11:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28140 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA03914; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:08:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2d-214.ix.netcom.com(209.110.255.214) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003899; Wed Oct 6 06:08:11 1999 Message-ID: <009601bf0feb$3edf0e40$d6ff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "E. Ann Clark" , Subject: Re: Re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:09:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3003 Just a little 2 cents worth. The winter lull is certainly an issue in all parts of the country in which it is realevant. It may be more of an issue if you are a wholesaler. I think it is less of an issue for direct marketers. We run a CSA we are officially closing in one week, mid Oct. So off go 37 families back to the grocery store (the majority of whom have told me they have bought few veggies all summer from a store). But we had a bit of a waiting list late year and so knew we needed to get a feel for numbers so I requested starting last week-end for re-sign-up deposits in one week-end half the people re-signed up and I've got one new one. We plan to hold their interest by inviting them to Maple Sugaring in Feb/March and may do sleigh rides if it snows. I have noted that area farms stands seem to have a loyal following, in that they close in about Nov. open again late Spring and people seem to view going to farm stands as "a part of summer" I guess even a "few" grocery stores buy local produce to be "a part of summer" but not enough of them. Thanks Beth PS I can't wait till frost! Winter will be my vacation :) -----Original Message----- From: Klaus Wiegand To: E. Ann Clark ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 5:32 AM Subject: Re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm hello ann, (maybe the others may also have an answer to this) i know, that you're on a sabbathical, may i nevertheless ask one or two questions ? >Organic food costs more to the consumer largely because of price >hikes at the retail end. Organic is still a small player, unable >to consistently occupy shelf space year-around, look >"just-picked" 7 days a week, and various other scale concerns >that occupy the minds of retailers. if you were an organic grower (let's assume vegetables or fruit) and you know, you can't compete - meaning you have nothing to sell during the winter months - with supermarkets: how would you react ? a) it's not worth driving to the market with nothing but celery or cabbage in winter, you do not sell enough to pay for the gasoline... b) consumers usually are used to buy most of their food from ONE farmer (a certain market stand from someone they have trust in). if you quit the market for a "winter time-out", they might go to the supermarket AND (that's the dangerous thing) might decide to stay supermarket shoppers even in the next season. so the farmer has two options: a) stay in the market with a (maybe extremely reduced assortement) and very likely losing money or having an hourly income not worth the time spent b) switch to sell non-organic food from southern countries and (that's important for the confidance) to clearly tell your clients, that this is conventional food i know organic growers, who changed to option b), because they think it very important not to loose contact with their usual clients. and immendiately some other organic growers accuse them to negate the "spirit" of organic farming. how would you react and what would be wiser in your opinion ? > As the volume of organic produce grows, and as > retailers cope with the notion that year-around strawberries are > not essential, this will be less of an issue. do you really see any trend, that consumers, once they have "tasted blood", are willing to reduce their desires (which, as can be seen in every supermarket, can very well be fulfilled without EVIDENT social and environmental costs) ?? i have strong doubts, but that certainly does not mean, that it really can't be achieved with better information and with more and more negative environmental consequences, people have to deal with... regards klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 09:32:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15115 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27554 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:51:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27540 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA24259 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id HAA22873; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:49:58 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma022621; Wed, 6 Oct 99 07:49:50 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:49:50 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF65@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Ted Rogers'" Subject: The hidden input (was: Organic Farming is EXTREEMLY Cheaper) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:49:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3004 Hi Ted, > the hidden input, that is very expensive, is management (I am > convinced that this is what happened to the old moniker of > Low Input Sustainable Agriculture and is why we are burdened > today with the term Sustainable Agriculture). This > management input is knowledge/experience based and I do not > see the talent being developed today to shoulder the > management load of even a small increase in the organic or > sustainable systems which are generally romantically > discussed on this list server. I might add that the > strongest proponents of a wholesale conversion are those who > are nowhere near the field of practice (i.e. a farm). This phenomenon of underestimating the cost of management is pretty common. Being a techie at heart, I have always had some disdain for management. As I made the transition from academic research to the seed industry, it became clear to me that managing complex systems is no small feat, and that complex management strategies usually fail because of human factors. As a researcher I tend to view the farmers role in primarily technical terms, but I am realizing that farming is mainly managing a business. It is rare for someone to be so multi-talented that they can do it all (although some brilliant farmers come close!). I wonder if crop advisory services might be a neglected part of the development of more environmentally responsible agriculture. I have gained a lot of respect for these consultants. I think there are several reasons why this might be a good fit. The biology is complicated. If you intend to manage pests rather than simply whack em back with a pesticide, you have to really be on top of things. Taking a landscape-wide view of these things, with traps to monitor moths for example, is more efficient than an atomized, purely local view. The other thing, is that crop advising service could be combined with a crop insurance scheme, since the interests of the the two parties coincide. The group who is insuring the farmer wants them to succeed, so they don't have to pay a claim. How about this scenario: Public or private subsidy helps support and underwrite a company to provide special insurance to farmers trying to transition to "sustainable" practices. The farmer pays for the insurance, but gets a good rate because of the subsidy. As an added benefit, the farmer can purchase technical management assistance at a good price. This could be contracted out to existing crop consultants, who would offer a good price as a volume discount. The "political correctness" of the recommendations could be arranged contractually between the insurer and the consultancy. The added risk from, say, avoidance of pesticides, would be shared, and the incentives would work in the right directions (I think). Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 10:11:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16026 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16766 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:24:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16673 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA14673 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FB4DFD.FE2BC3F8@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:26:22 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Dennis Avery's Brother? References: <3.0.6.32.19991005221147.00838840@pcsia.com> <37FAD78B.791D@indy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3005 Rich Molini wrote: > Mike, > Actually, it's a family tradition, father son duo. Evidently, Alex grew > up seeing how easy it was to prostitute oneself and make a decent living > that he's following in the old man's scat. > -- > Later, > Rich Molini > 2419 East 281st Street > Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 > http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ The Grad. students of the American Phytopathological Society hosted a World Hunger Symposium at the Annual meeting this year in Montreal. Alex Avery (Yes, Dennis' Son) presented for the Hudson Institute. A link to abstracts, etc. is available at http://www.scisoc.org/ Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 10:26:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16344 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22693 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:37:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22649 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:37:27 -0400 (EDT) From: SHoughton@aol.com Received: from SHoughton@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id zPHTa25313 (3860); Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <846e37ea.252caa06@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:35:02 EDT Subject: Re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3006 Klaus: In a message dated 10/06/1999 3:47:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time, WIEGAND@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de writes: > > >Organic food costs more to the consumer largely because of price > >hikes at the retail end. Organic is still a small player, unable > >to consistently occupy shelf space year-around, look > >"just-picked" 7 days a week, and various other scale concerns > >that occupy the minds of retailers. > > if you were an organic grower (let's assume vegetables or fruit) > and you know, you can't compete - meaning you have nothing to > sell during the winter months - with supermarkets: how would you > react ? Part of the answer is that the consumer needs to be educated about what to eat in the winter - their may be real benefits to health from eating the "local" foods - certainly the fresher the better. Part of the answer to this is educating the growers about what they can grow that is storable. Squash, cabbage, beets, carrots, onions, potatoes, apples, pears, celery, to name a few. By increasing their product line, they do hold onto customers, as well as increasing their income. Also there are a variety of things that can be grown in the winter (even in mid-Michigan) in relatively inexpensive hoophouses. Lettuce, bok choi, carrots, beets, onions, endive and even everbearing strawberries. > > a) it's not worth driving to the market with nothing but celery > or cabbage in winter, you do not sell enough to pay for the > gasoline... > > b) consumers usually are used to buy most of their food from ONE > farmer (a certain market stand from someone they have trust > in). if you quit the market for a "winter time-out", they > might go to the supermarket AND (that's the dangerous thing) > might decide to stay supermarket shoppers even in the next > season. This is even more of a problem if the grower is selling to restaurants or grocery stores. The stores want the same quality year round. If the local grower is providing a high quality product, the grocer has to settle for 3 day old stuff in the winter, then the grocer sees a decrease in his business in the winter. He will opt to have the same quality, variety all the time, and not give the local farmer a chance the next spring. > so the farmer has two options: > > a) stay in the market with a (maybe extremely reduced > assortment) and very likely losing money or having an hourly > income not worth the time spent > > b) switch to sell non-organic food from southern countries and > (that's important for the confidence) to clearly tell your > clients, that this is conventional food > > > i know organic growers, who changed to option b), because they > think it very important not to loose contact with their usual > clients. and immediately some other organic growers accuse them > to negate the "spirit" of organic farming. > > how would you react and what would be wiser in your opinion ? Forming cooperatives of small growers that can increase their own and each others' product mix is another alternative. Forming cooperatives of small growers to process some of their own products is another. > > > As the volume of organic produce grows, and as > > retailers cope with the notion that year-around strawberries are > > not essential, this will be less of an issue. > > do you really see any trend, that consumers, once they have > "tasted blood", are willing to reduce their desires (which, as > can be seen in every supermarket, can very well be fulfilled > without EVIDENT social and environmental costs) ?? > > i have strong doubts, but that certainly does not mean, that it > really can't be achieved with better information and with more > and more negative environmental consequences, people have to deal > with... > > regards > > klaus > Susan Houghton Michigan Organic Food and Farm Alliance PO Box 95 Mulliken MI 48861-0095 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 10:41:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16582 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23590 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:40:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23580 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27874 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FB5EC6.8069E53B@uoguelph.ca> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:37:58 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: News Release from RAFI] References: <14FE3D70338@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------33FF50F86866F18C2DB2E98F" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3007 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------33FF50F86866F18C2DB2E98F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Klaus asked: > there's one thing i do not understand: > > monsanto is NOT the owner of the technology-protection- > patent aka "terminator". this is owned, as meanwhile we all know, by > delta & pine land AND the usda. delta & pine land is NOT yet merged > with monsanto (and maybe will never be). so what does shapiro meddle > with other companies affairs AND esp. PROPERTY ?? why doesn't the > rockefeller institute address the USDA, but instead the (even wrong > !!!) company ?? My understanding is that Monsanto is not "yet" the owner of D and P Land, but not for lack of trying. The hold-up appears to be anti-trust considerations/scrutiny at the federal level. So, presumably, they think it is a done deal and are making appropriate presumptions. Why didn't Shapiro go to the USDA? VERY GOOD QUESTION! > and another thing: > the usda (the co-owner) meanwhile has clearly stated, that they > would not accept the "terminator"-technology in commercial > applications. I had not heard that. In fact, just the opposite. The whole point of USDA investment was to provide a tool for seed companies to acquire yet more wealth via exerting yet more control over what farmers do. They have made this quite clear in numerous pronouncements. I think it is noteworthy that Monsanto et al. are apparently going to continue to pursue traitor technology, of which terminator is just a subunit. So, has anything really changed? Is this all PR? Can they really believe that coming up with this kind of high profile pronouncement is going to send RAFI et al. home with smiles on their faces, folding up their investigative tents, and withholding future scrutiny? Ann --------------33FF50F86866F18C2DB2E98F Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------33FF50F86866F18C2DB2E98F-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 10:59:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16898 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07510 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:10:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07459 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:09:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25067 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FB65BA.99F996F@uoguelph.ca> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:07:38 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FWD: Bt corn transfer to actinomycetes References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------473F4805969425869CB809F1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3008 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------473F4805969425869CB809F1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chuck: to add to Sheri's excellent and helpful discussion, > The good news is that extra genes are "expensive" to keep. Every new chunk > of DNA a cell takes in is one more thing it has to replicate in order to > reproduce. That requires energy and nutrients that are always in low > supply. Because of this, generally organisms will only keep DNA that is > useful. Not a molecular geneticist, but I'm not sure that is correct. My understanding is that a very large proportion of current DNA (in an organism, like a corn plant) is in fact "junk" DNA with no known function. This may be more a reflection of our ignorance of what the DNA actually does, but I don't think that the evidence is consistent with the contention that DNA is expensive and hence rigorously excluded. In fact, I was reading a set of 1998 articles by Schubbert and colleagues at the Univ of Kohn? (Cologne?) in Germany about the ease with which ingested transgenic DNA is actually taken up by and even covalently linked (integrated) into nonhomologous mouse cell DNA. The conclusion of the authors, and others, is that * that intestinal cells (in particular) are a likely port-of-entry for foreign DNA into animals, a process which is apparently ubiquitous and normal - they feel that concerns about transgenes moving into mammalian cells are much ado about nothing, because they contend this is and has been a normal phenomena forever (?) * that the location of the integrated transgene segments (and they were plasmids, by the way, which is the vehicle for choice for much of DNA insertion in transgenic plants) in the intestine, spleen, and liver is consistent with a protective function for these tissues; in other words, that alien DNA commonly gets that far in the blood stream, but is degraded in those specific tissues, presumably to protect other tissues? However, some escapes and even gets across the placental barrier into embryonic mice so it is not a fully effective screen * that the primary way that higher organisms protect themselves against the entry (integration) of alien DNA into their own DNA is NOT by excluding the DNA per se, but by silencing or otherwise preventing the expression of the alien DNA. I'd be interested in hearing from those of you who work in this area, to understand if this makes sense. I've reported it correctly - the question is whether it really works as these authors contend. It would seem more logical to have focused (evolutionarily speaking) on DNA-excluding mechanisms than DNA-silencing mechanisms, but then, what do I know? Maybe that is where all that junk DNA comes from? This phenomenon - if real - has critical implications for transgenic foods, if, (and I am not asking this rhetorically), *if* transgene segments (as plasmids or other mobile genetic elements) have some unique, perhaps human-endowed capability for overriding the naturally evolved gene silencing tools employed by mammalian (or plant or bacteria, etc.) cells. Comments? Ann --------------473F4805969425869CB809F1 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------473F4805969425869CB809F1-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 11:03:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16994 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16533 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:24:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16489 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00079 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FB691A.B990FAFF@uoguelph.ca> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:22:03 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of Small Farm References: <009601bf0feb$3edf0e40$d6ff6ed1@dan> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5475B525C3DDE450D3D2C9C0" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3009 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5475B525C3DDE450D3D2C9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Klaus: you asked - > if you were an organic grower (let's assume vegetables or fruit) > and you know, you can't compete - meaning you have nothing to > sell during the winter months - with supermarkets: how would you > react ? > > a) it's not worth driving to the market with nothing but celery > or cabbage in winter, you do not sell enough to pay for the > gasoline... > > b) consumers usually are used to buy most of their food from ONE > farmer (a certain market stand from someone they have trust > in). if you quit the market for a "winter time-out", they > might go to the supermarket AND (that's the dangerous thing) > might decide to stay supermarket shoppers even in the next > season. > > so the farmer has two options: > > a) stay in the market with a (maybe extremely reduced > assortement) and very likely losing money or having an hourly > income not worth the time spent > > b) switch to sell non-organic food from southern countries and > (that's important for the confidance) to clearly tell your > clients, that this is conventional food > > i know organic growers, who changed to option b), because they > think it very important not to loose contact with their usual > clients. and immendiately some other organic growers accuse them > to negate the "spirit" of organic farming. > > how would you react and what would be wiser in your opinion ? > First, I am not an organic grower and wouldn't presume to advise one on the correct strategy. I would suspect the answer to your question would vary with many variables specific to the particular grower. In general terms, however, I would think that the kind of person who specifically patronizes organic food in summer - for whatever reason - might behave differently from the general consuming population. They might well be more understanding of seasonal lulls in production - after all, they know the dificulties of growing strawberries in a northern climate for market in January! They might have read and taken to heart the Nearing's fabulous books - Living the Good Life and More of the Good Life - and learned to enjoy each food in its season. I sure have, and so have many friends and acquaintances who have never heard of the Nearings. I do see a trend, particularly as people become more aware of just what they are buying, and the health and environmental implications of year-around availability of everything, including exotic fruits and vegetables. There is a convergence of thought in this regard, with some farmers and some consumers coming together with like purpose. Not a lot of either, but enough of each to make for momentum - and that is encouraging. It doesn't make it easy, especially for those of you on the forefront, but you are making it happen and I applaud you. Ann --------------5475B525C3DDE450D3D2C9C0 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------5475B525C3DDE450D3D2C9C0-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 11:20:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17253 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20497 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:36:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20429 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id JAA02956; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:35:24 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma002367; Wed, 6 Oct 99 09:35:07 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:35:07 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF68@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'SHoughton@aol.com'" Subject: North-south co-ops( was: The Multiple Functions and Benefits of S mall Farm Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:35:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3010 Hello Susan and Klaus, > > so the farmer has two options: > > > > a) stay in the market with a (maybe extremely reduced > > assortment) and very likely losing money or having an hourly > > income not worth the time spent > > > > b) switch to sell non-organic food from southern countries and > > (that's important for the confidence) to clearly tell your > > clients, that this is conventional food > Forming cooperatives of small growers that can increase their > own and each others' product mix is another alternative. Why not form Northern Hemisphere/Southern Hemisphere organic grower cooperatives. Organic produce would come from the south during the winter, to stoke up the northern organic grower/marketer, and northern organic produce would go south to stoke up and support southern hemisphere growers in their winter. Doing it cooperatively with a reasonably large group would ameliorate shipping costs. I know this is logistically difficult, but where there is a will, and a common culture (organic ag) there is probably a way, and the internet could provide some of the infrastructure and planning. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 11:28:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17466 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25621 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:44:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.rodaleinst.org (mailhost.rodaleinst.org [205.147.214.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25524 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ldrink.ns.fast.net ([205.147.214.76]) by mailhost.rodaleinst.org (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA9908 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:36:21 -0400 Message-ID: <37FB6008.4823@Rodaleinst.org> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:43:20 -0400 From: ldrink@rodaleinst.org (Laurie Drinkwater) Reply-To: ldrink@rodaleinst.org Organization: Rodale Institute X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Hairy vetch biomass and N content Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3011 I'm writing a review paper and am looking for additional data to use for estimating the potential N iputs from hairy vetch when its used as a green manure prior to corn planting. I am specifically looking for data from IL, IN, IA, MI MN MO NE OH SD or WI, especially multiple year datasets. A vast amount of the data in the literature that I have found so far is from the east and south east, and California. Additional data would be greatly appreciated and of course I will cite sources. Thanks much, Laurie Drinkwater -- ***************************** Laurie E. Drinkwater, Ph.D. Director, US RARC Rodale Institute 611 Siegfriedale Road Kutztown, PA 19530 voice: 610-683-1437 FAX: 610-683-8548 ldrink@rodaleinst.org ***************************** To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 11:38:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17719 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01259 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:57:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01174 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:56:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA06090; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:53:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1b-105.ix.netcom.com(209.110.249.105) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005891; Wed Oct 6 09:52:59 1999 Message-ID: <000a01bf100a$a309a960$69f96ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , Cc: , Subject: Re: Breaking news/Terminator Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:54:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3012 This is amazing to me, the USDA "owns" half a corporate product? No wonder John and Jane Q. Public are skeptical of the "test" proving such products "safe". And how does the US gov. as a protection against monopolies fit in if the US gov. is in "private" business? Weird. Beth -----Original Message----- From: Rich Molini To: PetersFarm@aol.com Cc: farmsted@cfw.com ; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 7:00 AM Subject: Re: Breaking news/Terminator >PetersFarm@aol.com wrote: >> >> WHEEEEEE! >> (Does anyone else have the terminator technology?) > >Ann, > It's half-owned by USDA ( I guess that's you and me) who paid for most >of the R&D. >Later, >-- >Rich Molini >2419 East 281st Street >Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 >http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Oct 6 02:59:18 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11274 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:59:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22515 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:28:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22499 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA13642; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23252; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 22:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 22:23:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.panups X-Conference: panna.panups From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Infants and Atrazine To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 109 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3013 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Formula-Fed Infants Exposed to Atrazine October 5, 1999 A recent report from the Environmental Working Group (EWG) states that the herbicide atrazine is polluting tap water in almost 800 Midwestern communities. EWG found that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has seriously underestimated atrazine exposure for infants fed formula mixed with this tap water. Atrazine, the most heavily used herbicide in the U.S., is applied to 50 million acres of corn, and it enters drinking water supplies through runoff. Many water utilities serving major cities have begun using powdered activated carbon systems, reducing but not necessarily eliminating herbicides in drinking water. In smaller communities, water utilities often lack the resources for sophisticated filtration systems of this sort. EWG analyzed over 127,000 tap water test results for the years 1993 through 1998 from seven Midwestern states: Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska and Kansas. The group found atrazine residues in tap water delivered to 10.4 million people in 796 towns. In some communities the lifetime cancer risk from average atrazine concentrations is more than 20 times higher than EPA safety standards. Peak daily atrazine exposures in tap water have been measured as high as 42 parts per billion (ppb), 14 times the legally allowed annual average amount. The Food Quality Protection Act (FQPA), passed in 1996, requires all pesticide exposures to be safe for infants and children. According to the deadlines established by FQPA, health standards for atrazine and other high-risk pesticides were to be revised according to these guidelines by August 3, 1999. However, the EPA has not adhered to this deadline, announcing this year that new regulatory limits for atrazine in tap water will not be proposed until 2001. This failure by the EPA to enforce FQPA puts more than 18,000 bottle-fed infants at serious risk each year, according to EWG's analysis. EPA safety standards rest on the incorrect assumption that a bottle-fed newborn drinks the same amount of tap water relative to its body weight as an adult. In fact, for a mother to get the same dose of atrazine in relation to her body weight as a bottle-fed baby, she would have to drink three and a half gallons of tap water a day. Using the amount of atrazine a bottle-fed infant receives, EWG estimated the cancer risk accumulation during the first years of life. For 138 of the communities considered, EWG found that by age five children will exceed EPA's lifetime allowable dose of atrazine. In 40 towns, bottle-fed infants exceed their legally allowable lifetime cancer risk from atrazine by their first birthday. In Kansas City, Kansas, bottle-fed infants can receive their legal lifetime dose by just over eight months of age while in some other towns, babies receive their lifetime dose in their first four months. Even these figures are likely to be understated, because they are based on toxicity studies on adult animals, which would not reveal special susceptibilities of fetuses, infants and children. Producers of infant formula remove a large proportion of herbicide contaminants from water used to make liquid infant formulas. However, few of the communities with herbicide-contaminated tap water can afford the water treatment processes these companies use. In Columbus, Ohio, the manufacturer of the infant formula Similac purifies tap water using advanced filtration and separation processes. A child fed dehydrated Similac and other formulas reconstituted with Columbus tap water, however, would reach his or her legal lifetime limit for cancer risk from atrazine in less than five years. EWG points out that the economic burden of controlling atrazine exposure falls on water utilities, while the herbicide's manufacturer takes no responsibility. Atrazine, made by the Swiss-based multinational Novartis, causes more public drinking water supplies to violate federal health standards each year than any other chemical pollutant in the country. EWG argues that unless Novartis takes responsibility for outfitting water utilities with the proper equipment to filter out atrazine contamination, EPA should ban use of atrazine entirely. Source: Jane Houlihan and Richard Wiles, Into the Mouths of Babes: Bottle-fed Infants at Risk from Atrazine in Tap Water, Environmental Working Group, July 1999. Copies of this report may be ordered for US$20 each (plus 6% sales tax or $1.20 for residents of Washington, DC) and US$3 for postage and handling. Also available on EWG's website. Contact Environmental Working Group, 1718 Connecticut Ave. NW, Suite 600, Washington, DC 20009; phone (202) 667-6982; fax (202) 232-2592; email info@ewg.org; website http://www.ewg.org =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 12:40:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19048 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29180 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:57:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [216.12.0.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA29164 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14976 invoked from network); 6 Oct 1999 15:55:24 -0000 Received: from c4s7m29.cfw.com (HELO cfw.com) (216.12.57.30) by milo.cfw.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 1999 15:55:24 -0000 Message-ID: <37FB706C.E1792A0C@cfw.com> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:53:16 -0400 From: Jeff Ishee X-Sender: "Jeff Ishee" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Dennis Avery's Brother? References: <3.0.6.32.19991005221147.00838840@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3014 Mike, Alex Avery is Dennis Avery's son. They work together directing the Center for Global Food Issues, a project of the Hudson Institute. The Averys, Joel Salatin and Andy Lee all live in the same vicinity of the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. Anyone interested in sponsoring a four man "tag-team" debate over agricultural practices and policies? I've interviewed all of these fellows for broadcast programs on several occasions, and would be happy to serve as moderator. Just a thought. You might be interested in the following: The Avery v. Salatin debate can now be found online at: http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection/ruralwri/features/asdebate.htm Sincerely, Jeff Ishee Farm Director, WSVA Radio ********************************************** mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > Is the Hudson Institute a family affair? One brother to tell you to use > nitrate fertilizer and another to tell not to worry when it pollutes your > drinking water? Mike Miller > > >From: leopold@exnet.iastate.edu > >Date: 5 Oct 99 09:26:06 -0600 > >Subject: Leopold Center newsletter > > > > > >FALL LEOPOLD LETTER EXPLORES HOT TOPICS > > > >The Fall issue of the Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture's > >quarterly "Leopold Letter" explores a number of hot agricultural topics, > >including the profitability of genetically modified crops, nitrate in > >water, and a profile of southwest Iowa farmer Steve Williams looking for a > >balance between farm size and the availability of labor. The issue also > >offers an in-depth exploration of Aldo Leopold's "A Sand County Almanac" on > >the 50th anniversary of its publication. The newsletter is available free > >by contacting the Leopold Center, (515) 294-3711; or by visiting its web > >site, http://www.leopold.iastate.edu. > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >Richard Pirog > >Education Coordinator > >Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture > >209 Curtiss Hall Iowa State University > >Ames, Iowa 50011-3120 > >515 294-1854 > >FAX: 515 294-9696 > >e-mail: leopold@exnet.iastate.edu > > Web page URL: http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/ > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 12:51:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19367 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:51:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27605 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:52:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27583 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29107 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21017 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:51:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FB7DD1.92176DFE@uoguelph.ca> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:50:26 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: The Organic Landscape (long; was Organic EXTREEMLY Cheaper) References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7F06210725EF7EF25CAB3A14" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3015 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7F06210725EF7EF25CAB3A14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted: you raise some interesting and worthwhile points. I'll start by agreeing with your reference to the trade-off between lower yields and lower costs - producing a null sum for relative profitability of organic vs. conventional produce. I'll acknowledge also that the profit differential (and yield differential) between conventionally produced and organically produced commodities is commodity-specific. In other words, what we have found for dairy is irrelevant to a market gardener, particularly one who produces only 1 or a few specific commodities, in quantity, year after year, in the absence of livestock. I will also throw in, just to stir the pot a bit, the findings of a USDA team which included Papendick, if I recall, who compared conventional and organic farmers and reported that the field-to-field and year-to-year differences in yield were greater in magnitude than the organic to conventional differences. This was published in a refereed journal about 6-8 years ago, if memory serves. So how different ARE the yields achieved by these two production systems? Now, you ask: Do you honestly propose that the *organic* system might be substituted across the board for the conventional systems? Yes, I do. Scandalous, isn't it. Well, I'm on sabbatic so my thoughts are floating a bit freely these days. Let me explain. First, it is actually rather a good thing that organic yields *are* (at least for some commodities) lower than conventional yields. Otherwise, think how embarrassed all of us in institutional ag research would be. I mean, think of it. Conventional yields reflect billions of taxpayers dollars spent annually to research and refine technologies in support of high yield, capital-intensive, power-concentrating agriculture. Organic yields reflect the initiative and experience of what, a few scattered hippies and farmer wanna-bees? Like, come on man, - what if they *could* achieve as much per acre as a real farmer? What would that say about all the glorious yield increases *we* have accomplished? Yeesh! Perhaps that is why researchers who publish evidence that organic yields (or milk) are comparable to conventional yields are subjected to such withering scorn, ridicule, and abuse - from their own colleagues. Second, "high yields" are probably not achievable with truly sustainable practices, and further, are not remotely necessary to support first world nutrition. So why do we continue to go around the dance floor on this? As discussed in an earlier post, our problem is excess production - right? Yields in North America could decline in many commodities without compromising the nutrition of anyone, because: 1. Vast proportions of the rural landscape are currently occupied by grain (I just made a trip to Minnesota, across Illinois, nuf said). Some 70-90% of our grain goes to feed livestock, much of which (but not all, granted) could be replaced with the grass that ruminant livestock evolved to eat in the first place. Heavens, some misguided renegades are even pasturing pigs and chickens! So, we don't need nearly what we are producing - to feed ourselves. 2. The enormous capacity of North American agriculture to produce grain has worked us into a logistical corner, because of the flawed assumptions upon which our paradigm is based. The US and Canada (don't recall the order) are the #1 and #2 highest cost producers of both milk and meat in the world - because of grain, and the confinement-based grain feeding systems that we have evolved specifically to use up all that grain. That means it costs us more to produce a kg of meat or a liter of milk than anyone else in the world. So much for efficiency. The whole circular self-reinforcing abyss starts from the premise that we *can* produce it, so we *will* produce it, and once we have it, we must find ways to use it. The notion of just *not* producing so much grain in the first place doesn't seem to be an option. 3. Our top ranking as high cost producers is quite specifically because we insist on confinement for most or all of ruminant nutrition (yes, apart from the beef cows on the range), and because we feed such a high fraction of annual crops to the livestock. Everyone else either grazes year-around, or confines for the least possible time, using predominantly conserved perennial forage for winter feeding. Annual feed is more expensive than perennial feed, because of the need to amortize all production costs over a single year's production. And the cost of the inputs to produce the feed, and especially the facilities for storing, feeding, and housing are increasing while the value of the commodities is declining. Everyone else seems to have figured out that a unit of nutrition costs 4-5X as much when conserved and fed as when grazed - a reality which has somehow escaped us in North America. All that cheap, oh so cheap, grain has blinded us to the economic advantages of grass. 4. Excess grain (beyond what we need to feed ourselves) is only useful - nationally, as an item of trade, and personally, as individual farmers - if you can sell it. If you can't sell it, it is not just useless but counterproductive (to farmers, but not to buyers) because it drives down prices. We can't sell it - haven't been able to for years (decades, really), so not only do we personally not need our grain - but it is actually harmful to the livelihood of our own farmers to keep on striving for ever higher yields. After decades of reaping the benefits, even the ever-so-integrated marketing giants are going to lose on this one. I'm told that Ralston Purina is near to declaring bankruptcy. So, I don't accept the premise that a) organic farming is somehow a threat to the life and limb of the consuming public because yields may be lower (in some commodities), or that b) high yields are desirable (for anyone) or even attainable, using truly sustainable practices. Without expanding further, I will just reiterate that the practices used to produce high yields today in conventional agriculture are not sustainable. Third, high-yield agriculture is a production model that has the potential to do real damage to both human health and the environment, but is precisely the model that is being emulated by third world researchers and farmers. I do not accept the notion that it is either laudable or even appropriate for North American agriculture to "feed the world". A much wiser course of action would be to provide the model - and the tools - to help people to feed themselves. Naive? Probably. Foolish? Perhaps. Realistic? Definitely. All this Averyesque posturing may bring in a few more balance of trade dollars in the short term but cannot hope to really feed the world in the middle or long term. To the extent that we, in the privileged nations, accept the responsibility for the welfare of our fellow humans elsewhere, the only truly effective and sustainable approach must be ecologically sustainable practices - including but not limited to organic. It wouldn't take much in the way of institutional funding to provide research and extension support for the rapidly growing organic producer segment of society. I won't elaborate here, because this is already overlong, but would challenge my virtual SANET friends to contemplate just what institutional research can really do for organic farming - given their impressive (although not complete) success without us. You then ask: > If this be your thought let me point out two things: 1) rightly the systems being discussed include livestock, not many conventional systems include livestock these days. I do not see how agriculture can be practiced sustainably, let alone organically, in the absence of livestock (explanation will have to wait for another post). This does not mean that every farmer must own livestock. Other approaches can be - and are being - envisioned and implemented. Farmers, with apologies to those of you who are farmers, generally do what they are told. In this case, farmers have been told - through a variety of policy, entitlement, incentive, and regulatory vehicles, let along agbiz and peer pressures - to specialize. And so they have. This doesn't mean they have to stay that way, and I would suggest, that many farmers would do things quite differently if freed from the constraints of ill-conceived government ag policies. See some of Repetto's work with the WRI for support for my optimism. And finally, you ask: > 2) the hidden input, that is very expensive, is management ....This management input is knowledge/experience based and I do not see the talent being developed today to shoulder the management load ..... Agreed. I have spoken recently at several schools about the urgent need to facilitate the entry of new farmers (existing conventional farmers or non-farm background) into the organic mileau. I foresee a vast increase in demand for organic produce in the immediate future - and I mean within 1-5 yars - which we will be wholly unable to satisfy. You are quite right in pointing out that organic farming, or ecological farming in general, is not something one can pick up and run with. I am convinced it is a site-specific experiential type of process that does not lend itself to generalization - even if we in academia had the knowledge to teach it, which we don't.. Broad principles, yes, but down-in-the-dirt day-to-day practice, no. And time is needed to earn the insights needed to make organic farming run, both agronomically and economically. I am convinced that failure to nurture this industry right now - and I mean now, 1999 - will mean a real missed opportunity for quantum leaps in - yes, dare I say it - the wholescale introduction of organic farming into the agricultural landscape of North America. Ann > > --------------7F06210725EF7EF25CAB3A14 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for E. Ann Clark Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: E. Ann Clark n: Clark;E. Ann org: OARDC adr: Department of Entomology;;1680 Madison Avenue;Wooster;Ohio;44691-4096;USA email;internet: eaclark@uoguelph.ca title: Visiting Scholar tel;work: 330 262-3737 tel;home: 330 262-8978 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------7F06210725EF7EF25CAB3A14-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 12:59:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19599 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:59:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29730 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:59:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29681 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29293 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA17221; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm9-2.nidlink.com [216.18.141.57]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA07345; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910061558.IAA07345@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:10:10 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Inappropriate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3016 In my opinion, Rich's last post on the Avery's was inappropriate and offensive. Please people, resist the temptation to feed into the negative stereotypes of people on this list. That post will be used by the Avery's with their supporters/funders to make the case for more resources to carry on what many others view as "THE good fight." Plus, this sort of personal attack legitimizes the same sort of attacks by others on sus ag advoctaes and environmentalists. chuck Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 13:20:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20095 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:34:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19544 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from larry.indy.net (larry.indy.net [199.3.65.253]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29854 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from richmo.indy.net (ip209-183-86-26.ts.indy.net [209.183.86.26]) by larry.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA03527; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:32:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <37FB3123.20DF@indy.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:23:15 +0000 From: Rich Molini Reply-To: richmo@indy.net Organization: OCIA Indiana Chapter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IndyNet (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Benbrook CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, PatrickMadden@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Inappropriate References: <199910061558.IAA07345@enaila.nidlink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3017 Charles Benbrook wrote: > > In my opinion, Rich's last post on the Avery's was inappropriate and > offensive. Well Chuckie, Evidently you have never had the pleasure of the experience of in person speaking "at" Avery. I say speaking at because he does not treat or respond to his detractors as equals because of his grandly superior intellect and insight. I would consider his poor journalistic method as more innappropriate and offensive than my comments. Take your white gloves off. > -- Rich Molini 2419 East 281st Street Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 13:25:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20198 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19575 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:34:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19563 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15387 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FB8786.FAA2027@uoguelph.ca> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 12:31:51 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: resend - The Organic Landscape Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3018 Folks: don't know if this happened to anyone else, but I couldn't read either Ted's message or my own response - the lines just went off the page - after it went through the listserv. So, I've reposted the message from a file. Ann Ted: you raise some interesting and worthwhile points. I'll start by agreeing with your reference to the trade-off between lower yields and lower costs - producing a null sum for relative profitability of organic vs. conventional produce. I'll acknowledge also that the profit differential (and yield differential) between conventionally produced and organically produced commodities is commodity-specific. In other words, what we have found for dairy is irrelevant to a market gardener, particularly one who produces only 1 or a few specific commodities, in quantity, year after year, in the absence of livestock. I will also throw in, just to stir the pot a bit, the findings of a USDA team which included Papendick, if I recall, who compared conventional and organic farmers and reported that the field-to-field and year-to-year differences in yield were greater in magnitude than the organic to conventional differences. This was published in a refereed journal about 6-8 years ago, if memory serves. So how different ARE the yields achieved by these two production systems? Now, you ask: Do you honestly propose that the *organic* system might be substituted across the board for the conventional systems? Yes, I do. Scandalous, isn't it. Well, I'm on sabbatic so my thoughts are floating a bit freely these days. Let me explain. First, it is actually rather a good thing that organic yields *are* (at least for some commodities) lower than conventional yields. Otherwise, think how embarrassed all of us in institutional ag research would be. I mean, think of it. Conventional yields reflect billions of taxpayers dollars spent annually to research and refine technologies in support of high yield, capital-intensive, power-concentrating agriculture. Organic yields reflect the initiative and experience of what, a few scattered hippies and farmer wanna-bees? Like, come on man, - what if they *could* achieve as much per acre as a real farmer? What would that say about all the glorious yield increases *we* have accomplished? Yeesh! Perhaps that is why researchers who publish evidence that organic yields (or milk) are comparable to conventional yields are subjected to such withering scorn, ridicule, and abuse - from their own colleagues. Second, "high yields" are probably not achievable with truly sustainable practices, and further, are not remotely necessary to support first world nutrition. So why do we continue to go around the dance floor on this? As discussed in an earlier post, our problem is excess production - right? Yields in North America could decline in many commodities without compromising the nutrition of anyone, because: 1. Vast proportions of the rural landscape are currently occupied by grain (I just made a trip to Minnesota, across Illinois, nuf said). Some 70-90% of our grain goes to feed livestock, much of which (but not all, granted) could be replaced with the grass that ruminant livestock evolved to eat in the first place. Heavens, some misguided renegades are even pasturing pigs and chickens! So, we don't need nearly what we are producing - to feed ourselves. 2. The enormous capacity of North American agriculture to produce grain has worked us into a logistical corner, because of the flawed assumptions upon which our paradigm is based. The US and Canada (don't recall the order) are the #1 and #2 highest cost producers of both milk and meat in the world - because of grain, and the confinement-based grain feeding systems that we have evolved specifically to use up all that grain. That means it costs us more to produce a kg of meat or a liter of milk than anyone else in the world. So much for efficiency. The whole circular self-reinforcing abyss starts from the premise that we *can* produce it, so we *will* produce it, and once we have it, we must find ways to use it. The notion of just *not* producing so much grain in the first place doesn't seem to be an option. 3. Our top ranking as high cost producers is quite specifically because we insist on confinement for most or all of ruminant nutrition (yes, apart from the beef cows on the range), and because we feed such a high fraction of annual crops to the livestock. Everyone else either grazes year-around, or confines for the least possible time, using predominantly conserved perennial forage for winter feeding. Annual feed is more expensive than perennial feed, because of the need to amortize all production costs over a single year's production. And the cost of the inputs to produce the feed, and especially the facilities for storing, feeding, and housing are increasing while the value of the commodities is declining. Everyone else seems to have figured out that a unit of nutrition costs 4-5X as much when conserved and fed as when grazed - a reality which has somehow escaped us in North America. All that cheap, oh so cheap, grain has blinded us to the economic advantages of grass. 4. Excess grain (beyond what we need to feed ourselves) is only useful - nationally, as an item of trade, and personally, as individual farmers - if you can sell it. If you can't sell it, it is not just useless but counterproductive (to farmers, but not to buyers) because it drives down prices. We can't sell it - haven't been able to for years (decades, really), so not only do we personally not need our grain - but it is actually harmful to the livelihood of our own farmers to keep on striving for ever higher yields. After decades of reaping the benefits, even the ever-so-integrated marketing giants are going to lose on this one. I'm told that Ralston Purina is near to declaring bankruptcy. So, I don't accept the premise that a) organic farming is somehow a threat to the life and limb of the consuming public because yields may be lower (in some commodities), or that b) high yields are desirable (for anyone) or even attainable, using truly sustainable practices. Without expanding further, I will just reiterate that the practices used to produce high yields today in conventional agriculture are not sustainable. Third, high-yield agriculture is a production model that has the potential to do real damage to both human health and the environment, but is precisely the model that is being emulated by third world researchers and farmers. I do not accept the notion that it is either laudable or even appropriate for North American agriculture to "feed the world". A much wiser course of action would be to provide the model - and the tools - to help people to feed themselves. Naive? Probably. Foolish? Perhaps. Realistic? Definitely. All this Averyesque posturing may bring in a few more balance of trade dollars in the short term but cannot hope to really feed the world in the middle or long term. To the extent that we, in the privileged nations, accept the responsibility for the welfare of our fellow humans elsewhere, the only truly effective and sustainable approach must be ecologically sustainable practices - including but not limited to organic. It wouldn't take much in the way of institutional funding to provide research and extension support for the rapidly growing organic producer segment of society. I won't elaborate here, because this is already overlong, but would challenge my virtual SANET friends to contemplate just what institutional research can really do for organic farming - given their impressive (although not complete) success without us. You then ask: > If this be your thought let me point out two things: 1) rightly the systems being discussed include livestock, not many conventional systems include livestock these days. I do not see how agriculture can be practiced sustainably, let alone organically, in the absence of livestock (explanation will have to wait for another post). This does not mean that every farmer must own livestock. Other approaches can be - and are being - envisioned and implemented. Farmers, with apologies to those of you who are farmers, generally do what they are told. In this case, farmers have been told - through a variety of policy, entitlement, incentive, and regulatory vehicles, let along agbiz and peer pressures - to specialize. And so they have. This doesn't mean they have to stay that way, and I would suggest, that many farmers would do things quite differently if freed from the constraints of ill-conceived government ag policies. See some of Repetto's work with the WRI for support for my optimism. And finally, you ask: > 2) the hidden input, that is very expensive, is management ....This management input is knowledge/experience based and I do not see the talent being developed today to shoulder the management load ..... Agreed. I have spoken recently at several schools about the urgent need to facilitate the entry of new farmers (existing conventional farmers or non-farm background) into the organic mileau. I foresee a vast increase in demand for organic produce in the immediate future - and I mean within 1-5 yars - which we will be wholly unable to satisfy. You are quite right in pointing out that organic farming, or ecological farming in general, is not something one can pick up and run with. I am convinced it is a site-specific experiential type of process that does not lend itself to generalization - even if we in academia had the knowledge to teach it, which we don't.. Broad principles, yes, but down-in-the-dirt day-to-day practice, no. And time is needed to earn the insights needed to make organic farming run, both agronomically and economically. I am convinced that failure to nurture this industry right now - and I mean now, 1999 - will mean a real missed opportunity for quantum leaps in - yes, dare I say it - the wholescale introduction of organic farming into the agricultural landscape of North America. Ann > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 14:16:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21869 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13265 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:19:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13246 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJ6004XXYO2O7@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:15:06 -0700 From: Misha Subject: "Evolution" deleted from KY school guidelines To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3019 Howdy, all-- How ironic that this comes across the very morning that, sleepless at 5 a.m., I finished off a draft for you all on the selection-mutation balance in regards to this question of antibiotic resistance and organic farming. Evolution holds that life changes. Humans evolving from more "primitive" species is such a small and unimportant part of that demonstrated view of the biology of life, that these people's focus on that demonstrates the narrowness of their views and their refusal to even consider facts that don't fit with their biases. peace misha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >`Evolution' deleted from Kentucky > school guidelines > > Wednesday, October 6, 1999 > Breaking >News Sections > > > (10-06) 04:02 PDT FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) -- > The word ``evolution'' has been deleted from > guidelines of what Kentucky public school students > should know and be tested on, the latest blow to a > topic many scientists consider a cornerstone of > biology. > > State Education Department officials substituted > ``change over time'' for evolution during a > last-minute editing session, said Associate > Education Commissioner Linda Houghton, who > oversees the department's curriculum work. > > She cited state ``testing sensitivity'' guidelines, > designed to keep children from taking a position on > subjects such as death, divorce and animal rights. > The list also includes the theory of evolution, which > holds that humans evolved from more primitive > species. > > Deputy Commissioner Gene Wilhoit said he and > other department officials saw no need to keep the > word evolution in the guidelines for high school and > middle school students. > > ``The word is a lightning rod that creates a diversion > from what we're teaching, and we did not want to > advocate a particular doctrine or a specific view,'' > Wilhoit said. > > Biology teachers said the decision will discourage > schools from covering the topic. > > ``A lot of teachers are upset about this,'' said Ken > Rosenbaum, director of the Kentucky Science > Teachers Association. ``They know it was done for > political reasons. It's either a scientific theory or it's > not. Why don't we just stop calling the sunrise the > sunrise?'' > > The topic is controversial because some view > evolution as inconsistent with their religious beliefs, > including the Bible's account of creation. > > In a high-profile decision in August, the Kansas > Board of Education adopted new testing standards > that play down the scientific importance of > evolution. > > In Kentucky, teachers campaigned for including > evolution in updated state curriculum guidelines. The > word was in the final draft of the guidelines > presented to the state Board of Education in > August, but was replaced. > > The guidelines do not require approval of the state > Board of Education, though the board can call for > changes. > > ``If we were going to add or remove the word > evolution, this should have been brought to our > attention,'' said Jeffrey Mando, a board member. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 14:16:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21874 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:16:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13260 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:18:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13236 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJ6004XXYO2O7@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:12:34 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Re: Dennis Avery's Brother? In-reply-to: <37FB706C.E1792A0C@cfw.com> To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" References: <3.0.6.32.19991005221147.00838840@pcsia.com> <37FB706C.E1792A0C@cfw.com> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3020 Howdy, all-- Jeff asked: > The Averys, Joel Salatin and Andy Lee all live in the same vicinity of >the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. Anyone interested in sponsoring a >four man "tag-team" debate over agricultural practices and policies? Why? What possible good could come out of wasting air time on the Averys that they can get elsewhere? The Averys have no original thoughts and nothing to say. They're Southern showmen, like Rush Limbaugh. They'll say whatever it takes to get noticed. Why would you want to leave the impression--in standing them up to thoughtful, solid, and honest farmers--that they *do* have anything to say? Why would you want to cheapen what the farmers have to say by even making them engage with such a combination of unfounded nonsense and outright distortions? People who want tag-team can tune into WWF wrestling. And speaking of, IMO Avery is like Jesse Ventura--simply not worth the attention, and appealing to the same part of the human psyche: the reactive, loud, macho, self-absorbed, and posturing, rather than the thoughtful, critical, contexted, committed, experiential, and aware. Avery pere describes himself as "a contrarian." Good boy, Dennis, you learned to yell NO when you were two. Now get on with life, and develop some more mature communication competencies. Like listening. Self-critique. Dialogue. Focus on publicizing the work of sustainable farmers, is my view and advice. Let them tell their stories, straight, without putting them in some artificial point/counterpoint dynamic. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thunder ain't rain. --Jim Hightower To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 14:16:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21878 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:16:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13250 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:18:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13230 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJ6004XXYO2O7@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 06:07:12 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Soil-borne bacteria, life on earth, organics To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3021 Howdy, all-- Some thoughts in response to Russ Bulluck's wonderful thinking on soil-borne enteric (gut-residing) bacteria that he's been sharing lately. I drafted most of this in September, but wanted to let it sit awhile. Some time ago there was a thread of discussion here on SANET about the effects of antibiotics in livestock and poultry operations. Epidemiologists and other folks with a systems perspective on health and disease have been pointing out for some years now that the use of antibiotics in humans and animals is decreasingly effective for what these drugs were intended for: to fight/control disease. And that this poses some unprecedented specters for large organisms like humans. Antibiotics wipe out a broad range of flora and fauna in the bodies of the organisms that are dosed with them. Theoretically, in wiping out those microbes, the target one also falls victim. Some antibiotics are more targeted than others...and some are quite wide-spectrum. When you wipe out any life form, there will be some survivors. They survive by virtue of having resistance to whatever it was that wiped out their amigos. There's no mystery in this: life is an ancient thing on this planet--the fossil record shows the first prokaryotes appearing 3.8 billion years ago. And today's bacterial microbes are just that--one-celled packets of DNA, no nucleus. Whose genes encode a vast history of trial and error. Bacteria have spent nearly all their history working on that DNA. Rather than, like larger creatures, devoting so much energy and intelligence and code to making different nifty tools like beaks or the anglerfish's worm or the chameleon's tongue, or variations in color, or size. When the survivors of a wipe-out event reproduce, they pass along that survivability to whatever killed their fellows--and they even engineer new types. So in the case of bacterial resistance to antibiotics, when they next come into contact with a host organism, they're likely to be even more devastating. Because they are resistant not only to the organism's natural defenses (which they challenged to begin with, and survived) but to these engineered drugs. Not to mention that bacteria go through many more generations than their hosts in the same amount of time. I believe it was Russ who pointed out that some microorganisms cycle through a new generation every 20 minutes. It takes us 20 years. So when there are selection pressures, who's going to adapt more quickly? Not on the individual basis, mind you--on the species basis. (Only humans apparently have the arrogance to worry about themselves on an individual basis, never mind to try to change species to suit their individual needs.) This raises the stakes rapidly from the perspective of us macrobes, who are trying to stay a few inches ahead of the microbes and other small beings whose era this is. What starts out as an effort to control disease (antibiotics) turns out to be an experiment in natural selection--one that encourages these microbes to evolve more quickly and get a lot smarter, fast. The pressure is then on the drug engineers to engineer new drugs...and everybody from CDC and WHO to your next door neighbor is quickly figuring out that that's not a race we can win. We may be smart primates with opposible thumbs, but the rules of life were laid down long before the first flint knife was knapped. Unless, of course, you live in Kansas, where people can choose to ignore observable biological realities because they're just too hard to think about, and their consequences are at odds with a very recent story about how humans were created to have dominion on a planet where they are such newcomers. Reminds me of the technoyuppies who are gentrifying the Mission here; to hear them tell it, they and their gods (computers) invented the place. Gosh, Toto, let's not think about the fact that god created cyanobacteria so long before bipedal primates showed up; it's SOOO depressing. (Remember what happened to Giordano Bruno for claiming that the universe didn't revolve around the earth? But I digress.) The antibiotic resistance issue parallels the model of pesticide use that industrial ag has given us, by the way. That's another losing game not, as some would suggest, because we in sustag have the wrong politics or foofy spirituality, but because from a biological point of view, technicians are not smart enough to outwit How Life Works. Though our Gene Jockeys with their DNA six-shooters and our spray n pray boys think they are. However, all they can do is develop new "technologies" with very impressive initial effects. Like the knockdown effect of DDT. That quickly dissolve, or have unexpected events because we don't fully understand the context in which the effects unfold. Back to antibiotics. The widespread use of antibiotics pretty much guarantees that the "leading edge" of dangerous microbes will expand rapidly in the direction of Appallingly Virulent. Antibiotics accelerate natural selection by constantly stressing the microbial community, encouraging microbial genomes to express and evolve latent resistances. Antibiotics also wipe out the complex balances of microbial activity that for billions of years have held evolution in check for any given species/strain. What epidemiologists are increasingly warning us about is that, in our zeal for killing off Microbe X, we've flushed out whole microbial ecosystems that for billions of years have co-evolved with that microbe. If any people in society right now have lessons to teach about that, it's us in sustainable and organic ag, on the basis of our having witnessed the failure and tragic farce of pesticides in the second half of this century. Entomologist Ken Raffa at UW-Madison (one of CIAS's early research partners) once told me, and I paraphrase: "There's no need to nuke insects to control their populations, but that's the approach we're taught in ag. The fact is that insects hold on to the slippery slope of survival by their fingernails. More research needs to focus on dislodging their tenuous hold on that slope, rather than obliterating them altogether. We've learned over and over that when you try to wipe out a species, you in fact end up losing control tools--because whatever you used to wipe them out won't be effective any longer with the offspring of those who survived that tool. This is basic biology. But too many researchers have this B-movie view of insects as these vastly frightening, horribly powerful creatures that need to be obliterated at any or all costs. The irony is, they *can* be, if we upset the balance enough." By comparison to insects (never mind humans), microbes are damnably smart (adaptive, creative) creatures. THINK about this: /Staphylococcus/ was 100 percent vulnerable to penicillin in the early 50s; in 30 years, fewer than 10 percent of all clinical /Staph./ cases could be cured with penicillin. By the early 90s, vancomycin was seen as the only surefire killer of /Staph./, yet if I remember correctly, the first documented death due to a vancomycin-resistant /Staph./ infection occurred in New York City in 1998 (I'm taking that from memory; don't quote me on that). How did /Staph./ do this? Danged microbes did their own genetic engineering, and picked up a gene packet that defused the penicillin bomb. The microbes who had this little innovation thrived despite penicillin, passed along their trick to their offspring...voila. New /Staph./ strains grow thousands of times faster, give off enzymes that make penicillin-class antibiotics ineffective, and generate potent T-cell stimulators that cause not only hyperexcitation of the human immune system...but eventual collapse of it (as in the case of TSST-1, the strain that causes Toxic Shock Syndrome). Did I mention that penicillin-class antibiotics--like most antibiotics--are derived from organisms found naturally in the soil? The actinomycetes that Chuck asked about (I'm spinning a response to his question separately). Yep, and /Staph./ originate in the soil as well. So why would it come as a surprise that critters that have been co-evolving with certain selection pressures for billions of years are really crafty in devising ways to outfox them? Or that they can devise these ways in just a few decades? We're tinkering with the life of soil, in all of this--the soil we come out of, and return to, has a vast life-web of its own, and has fought battles within itself that we know nothing of. But instead of building host resistance to microbial threats on human health, we focus on upping the ante by developing more and more potent antibiotics. Which in turn lead to the development of more and more potent microbial threats. Or by telling ourselves we can someday "read" the "genetic code" and understand it. This looks, to me, like a game we can't expect to come out ahead on, never mind win. So is it accidental that some of these hugely virulent microbes--like /E. coli/ 0157:H7 and /Salmonella typhimurium/ DT104--are suddenly turning up? Which of them can live in the soil, and for how long? We know that /S. typhimurium/ DT 104 can be passed along thru the feces of many different animals...what other unwitting experiments in genetic engineering (the selection-pressure type, as well as the gene-splicing type)--brought to you by the same pharmaceutical industry that's consolidating its control of GMOs--are passing through the innards of critters in your average factory farm? When are these people who are so clever with their laboratory techniques going to go back to the drawing board, and learn a bit about Life on Earth 101: How Things Work Here? Will we in sustainable ag do the same? It doesn't appear that these answers are easy to get at. I spoze someone could trumpet the need for More Research. That's one of those suggestions that is rarely wrong...but likewise rarely able to keep up with the costs of the technology that caused the problems in the first place. Antibiotic resistance is a side-effect of antibiotic use. Just like pesticide resistance is a side-effect of pesticide use. Here we are, back at the Precautionary Principle. My point is that, if we're doing these experiments in the gut of livestock--exposing enteric microbes to such tough selection pressures--is it far-fetched to imagine that Bossy might suddenly be plopping out some pretty tough bacterial customers, like /E. coli/ 0157:H7? And other players to be named later? That brings me back to the issue of organics. I have strong doubts that such new outbreaks can be blamed on organic farming. To begin with, even if certified organic farmers ARE spreading raw manure on their crops, which they aren't (though I'm sure that J. Random Sensationalist Journalist or Dennis Avery could find an example or two to the contrary, to make headlines with), it's going to be from organically raised animals, not animals who've been hosts to these unwitting and bizarre experiments in evolution and natural selection, generation after generation. Organically raised animals are likely to be animals with immune systems (reminding me of how one of the first things that dairy farmers report after one to three years in a management-intensive grass-based system is that their animals "get healthy"), as well. I'd like to see some research on whether this strain of /E. coli/ can get a foothold in organisms whose immune systems are not compromsed. What I've heard from the FDA about this and other "food poisoning" issues is that it is PRECISELY among the immunocompromised that these microbes' effects go from distressing to fatal. But instead of making it an agenda to build immune system competence, the focus ends up being on more potent antibiotics. From a compassion standpoint, wholly understandable...but clearly at odds with life on earth. The whole point of organics is to try to restore natural balance to ecosystems, and to substitute management for control. It isn't just about "clean food." Which leads me to conclude that, some day, organics, as well as evolution, will be illegal in Kansas--for the crime of daring to posit that the web of life on earth is more complicated than described in the two conflicting versions of the creation myth appearing in the book of Genesis. Here is the World Health Organization's 1997 report on antibiotic use in the food chain: http://www.who.int/emc-documents/antimicrobial_resistance/whoemczoo974c.html peace misha (PS--By the way, I adore the book of Genesis, but not nearly so much as the chapter in Job, where--after he's sitting there howling for 37 chapters about how mean god is, and unfair life is, etc., on and on--he says, "YEAH, and if god were here, I'd give him a piece of my mind and tell him what I think and make him see things my way!" And then, the story goes, the voice spake out of the whirlwind, "Job, gird up your loins like a man, for I'll question you, and you'll answer me." It is, for me, the funniest moment in the Old Testament. You can just imagine the look on Job's face. Then god goes on to wallop him about his arrogance, and the theme is loosely this: "Who do you think you are, claiming to understand your fate and my nature, when you don't even understand the most basic things about life on this planet and how the cosmos works?" Really. Read it for yourself. The litany of the mysteries of the earth, Job 38-41.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I eat everything. If anything is there, I eat it. I presume it is safe and good. --U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Dan Glickman To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 16:52:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25160 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23916 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:24:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23912 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0130281C@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:22:49 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 6 Oct 99 16:22:43 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 6 Oct 99 16:22:24 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:22:20 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: off season options In-reply-to: <199910061112.HAA28365@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3022 klaus writes: > if you were an organic grower (let's assume vegetables or fruit) > and you know, you can't compete - meaning you have nothing to > sell during the winter months - with supermarkets: how would you > react ? > > the farmer has two options: > > a) stay in the market with a (maybe extremely reduced > assortement) and very likely losing money or having an hourly > income not worth the time spent > > b) switch to sell non-organic food from southern countries and > (that's important for the confidance) to clearly tell your > clients, that this is conventional food > How about an options c) that is selling value-added products from the summer surplus like tomato sauces, fruit jams, dried fruits, pickles, etc? I assume that if one can grow brassicas, one might also have potatoes, winter squash, and onions/garlic from storage at least. In areas where nothing in the market-garden repetoir can be grown, seems like long-storage processed foods would be the only choice for a farmer who wants to market his own goods (of course in these sorts of climates, I doubt there is a farmer's market in the winter, so the need to defend one's stand there doesn't seem like the main issue.) Also, if there is a chance of changing tastes to be more seasonally appropriate, it seems like the organic-buying community might be the most amenable to this, even as it may be a lost cause for other types of consumers. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 16:56:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25210 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23010 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:29:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22906 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:29:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pc014 (1Cust172.tnt1.tco2.da.uu.net [63.20.240.172]) by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16712 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:41:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991006152528.0089c370@pop.iamdigex.net> X-Sender: 10005843@pop.iamdigex.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:25:28 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Suzanne DeMuth Subject: Alternative Agriculture News Oct. 1999 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3023 Alternative Agriculture News October 1999 Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture 9200 Edmonston Road, #117 Greenbelt, MD 20770 (301) 441-8777 E-mail: hawiaa@access.digex.net Web site: www.hawiaa.org * * * If You Are Interested in Sustainable Agriculture... In addition to this monthly newsletter, the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture publishes the "American Journal of Alternative Agriculture," a quarterly, peer-reviewed journal of research on alternative agriculture. It is a scientific forum for disseminating technical, economic, and social research findings about the character and requirements of alternative agriculture systems. The factors, challenges, and obstacles in organic farmers' decision-making are featured in the current issue (Volume 14, No. 1). Other articles cover evaluation of farmers' perceptions of soil quality indicators, farmers' attitudes towards sustainable agriculture issues and environmental quality in a selected area of Bangladesh, rice and wheat production in Pakistan with effective microorganisms, a profile of an organic farm in Sweden, and commentary on whether precision agriculture is sustainable. For U.S. subscribers, one volume (four issues) costs US$44 for libraries, US$24 for individuals, and US$12 for students; foreign rates are available also. For more information, contact the Wallace Institute, 9200 Edmonston Road, #117, Greenbelt, MD 20770; (301) 441-8777; hawiaa@access.digex.net. TABLE OF CONTENTS: Consumers Union Calls for Labeling of Modified Foods, p. 1 USDA Dedicates New Henry A. Wallace Room, p. 2 Agriculture Could "Make or Break" Trade Talks -- Glickman, p. 2 OMRI Develops List of Allowed Organic Products, Seal for Farmers, p. 3 Positions, p. 3 ADM Recommends Separating Traditional, Modified Crops, p. 3 Plant Extinctions Threaten Future Food Supplies, Says New Report, p. 4 Resources, p. 4 Upcoming Events, p. 5 CONSUMERS UNION CALLS FOR LABELING OF MODIFIED FOODS Consumers Union, in Consumer Reports magazine (September, 1999), has recommended that "all foods containing genetically engineered ingredients be labeled as such, including milk with recombinant bovine growth hormone," and that the USDA "set a single, national standard for certified-organic food that excludes genetically engineered food from the definition." The Consumer Reports article examined genetically modified foods, tested "everyday groceries," and revealed that "genetically engineered foods are already on supermarket shelves." Although "U.S. consumers are largely unaware of the issue," its effects on them include the U.S.'s "collision course" with the European Union over genetically modified foods, and "environmental questions over genetically engineered crops [that] have taken on a new urgency....What happens if a hybrid 'superweed' emerges that withstands herbicides?" Genetically engineered foods "should be subject to a mandatory federal human-safety review before they hit the market," according to the story. It also calls for "thorough, mandatory safety reviews of genetically engineered plants and animals before they are released into the environment," and recommends that EPA require "more rigorous resistance-management plans." Innovations like 'terminator' technology, which produces sterile seeds, should not be used until society has found a way to carefully consider their profound environmental and societal implications." For now, the magazine says, consumers who want to avoid genetically modified foods "have little choice but to buy organic." USDA DEDICATES NEW HENRY A. WALLACE ROOM With an agency ceremony and keynote lecture by former Senator George McGovern, the USDA on September 29 dedicated the Henry A. Wallace Room in the USDA's headquarters in Washington, D.C. At the dedication, USDA Secretary Dan Glickman said in praise of Wallace, the 11th Secretary of Agriculture, "Nearly every challenge we face is one that he envisioned. Practically everything we do and care about at USDA is an outgrowth of something first begun or first imagined by Henry Wallace. Long before sustainability was a buzzword, he understood that agricultural productivity had to be balanced by a responsibility to the land." Even as Wallace championed science and technology, Glickman said, "he also understood their pitfalls. He understood that increased efficiency could render farmers increasingly obsolete. He understood the dangers of agricultural consolidation, the trend toward fewer and larger farm operations." In his keynote speech, Senator McGovern called Wallace "a remarkable thinker and 'doer,' a Renaissance man whose broad talents and significant accomplishments covered the realms of art, science, economics, politics, and the human spirit." When he became Secretary of Agriculture, Wallace "put his keen mind to work on crafting the most innovative package of government farm programs ever....His ingenious approach worked. It is a prime reason that Henry A. Wallace is acknowledged as among the most important agricultural leaders of this century." If Wallace were here today, the Senator suggested he might want to relay these messages: "Do not blame science....Seek policy solutions that target the plight of farmers under stress....Be flexible; seek adaptations; embrace change....Integrate natural resource conservation with agricultural adjustment....Pursue technological advance for the public good." Glickman ended the ceremony by saying, "Here's to hoping that his genius is with us every time we set foot in that room....and in everything we do at the Department of Agriculture." AGRICULTURE COULD "MAKE OR BREAK" TRADE TALKS -- GLICKMAN Agriculture could "make or break" the upcoming world trade negotiations which begin in Seattle on November 30, USDA Secretary Dan Glickman told the President's Export Council last month, according to Reuters. Protectionist feelings "are so high" in the agricultural sector that they could "thwart progress in other areas," Glickman said of the World Trade Organization talks, which cover trade in several service areas and are expected to last three years. U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshefsky told the group that the United States's main agenda will be to increase foreign market access for U.S. goods and services. According to Reuters, "In the agriculture sector, that means pushing for the elimination of export subsidies, reductions in trade-distorting domestic subsidies and strengthening rules for 'state-trading enterprises'....The United States also wants to reduce tariffs and regulatory barriers that impede U.S. farm exports and ensure that science-based rules govern trade in genetically modified crops and other products of biotechnology, Barshefsky said....U.S. trade negotiators will face strong opposition from the European Union on issues such as genetically modified crops, which have sparked European consumer concerns." OMRI DEVELOPS LIST OF ALLOWED ORGANIC PRODUCTS, SEAL FOR FARMERS The Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) has developed a catalog of allowed and regulated products in organic agriculture, and a new seal for organic farmers and processors that identifies the OMRI-approved products that they use in their organic operations. Manufacturers of organic inputs may also use the seal to identify products that have gone through the OMRI review process. OMRI provides professional and independent review of materials and compatible processes allowed to produce, process, and handle organic food and fiber. After a comprehensive review by OMRI technical staff, a review panel of experts from the organic industry votes on a product's status. The "OMRI Brand Name Products List" lists the allowed and regulated products; the "OMRI Generic Materials List" offers recommendations regarding the acceptability of generic materials used in organic production, processing, and handling. For more information, contact OMRI, P.O. Box 11558 Eugene, OR 97440-3758; (541) 343-7600; info@omri.org. POSITIONS Washington State University seeks a Dryland Farming Systems Specialist, Integrated, Sustainable Systems; contact Rebecca Armstrong, WSU Cooperative Extension, P.O. Box 646230, Pullman, WA 99164; (509) 335-2822; armstro@mail.wsu.edu. Evergreen State College seeks an environmental scientist to teach sustainable agriculture; contact Faculty Hiring Coordinator, ESC, Olympia, WA 98505; blodgetd@evergreen.edu. University of British Columbia seeks an Agroecology Instructor; send letter, curriculum vitae, three references, and research sample to Dr. Art Bomke, Chair, Agroecology Search Committee, c/o Faculty of Agricultural Sciences, University of BC, 248-2357 Main Mall, Vancouver, BC V6T 1Z4. International Center for Tropical Agriculture in Cali, Colombia, seeks a senior scientist and project manager for its project on sustainable production systems in the tropics; send letter, curriculum vitae, and three references to International Recruitment Officer, CIAT, A.A. 67-13, Cali, Colombia; CIAT-jobs@cgnet.com. ADM RECOMMENDS SEPARATING TRADITIONAL, MODIFIED CROPS Archer Daniels Midland last month sparked controversy by recommending that its grain suppliers "begin segregating genetically modified crops from conventional crops," according to The Wall Street Journal (September 2, 1999). The move, which "could dent farmer interest in biotechnology," is "the clearest sign yet that the consumer backlash over genetically modified crops in Europe and Asia is rattling American exporters....But farmer groups reacted angrily yesterday because they fear the move could lead to an industry-wide two-tier pricing system that would penalize their members for growing the new crops." According to Newsweek (September 13, 1999), "It didn't matter that GM [genetically modified] crops are widely grown by U.S. farmers, and that there's no evidence that the taco chips and soda you're enjoying right now are anything worse than fattening. ADM had noticed something new sprouting under the bright, warm sun of economic interdependence: a strange hybrid of cultural and economic fears. So it decided to act before the problem got any bigger." The announcement, made because of heightened demand for conventional varieties both domestically and abroad, "left many farmers feeling angry and betrayed," according to The Washington Post (September 12, 1999). Though consumer protests against genetically modified crops have been most prevalent in Europe, the announcement from Archer Daniels Midland "really brought the debate home to the American farmer." PLANT EXTINCTIONS THREATEN FUTURE FOOD SUPPLIES, SAYS NEW REPORT Widespread plant extinctions are "eroding the foundations of agricultural productivity and threatening other plant-based products used by billions of people worldwide," according to a new Worldwatch report, "Nature's Cornucopia: Our Stake in Plant Diversity." Loss of habitat, pressure from non-native species, and overharvesting have put one out of every eight plant species at risk of extinction, the report says. "With changes in agriculture," the genetic diversity of cultivated plants, which is essential to breeding more productive and disease-resistant crop varieties, "is slipping away." According to the Associated Press, more than 30,000 plant species are threatened worldwide; more plant species are threatened in the United States than any other country -- 4,669, or 29 percent of all varieties. "Less than 20 percent of vegetable seed varieties listed in a 1904 U.S. national inventory are available commercially today," the AP story said. More information about the report is available on the Internet at www.worldwatch.org. RESOURCES "Pastures for Profit: A Guide to Rotational Grazing" is available from University of Minnesota Extension Service, 1-800-876-8636. "Legal Guide for Direct Farm Marketing" is $20 plus $2 shipping from Agricultural Law Center, Drake University, 27th and Carpenter, Des Moines, IA 50311; (515) 271-2947. "Sharing the Harvest: A Guide to Community-Supported Agriculture" is $24.95 from Chelsea Green Publishing, P.O. Box 428, White River Junction, VT 05001; 1-800-639-4099. "Environmental Factors to Consider When Expanding Dairies," $9 plus $3.75 shipping; "Sustainable Vegetable Production from Start-Up to Market," $42 plus $5.50 shipping, are both available from Natural Resource, Agriculture, and Engineering Service, 152 Riley-Robb Hall, Ithaca, NY 14853; (607) 255-7654; nraes@cornell.edu. "Pest Management in U.S. Agriculture" is available on the USDA Economic Research Service's Web site at www.econ.ag.gov/epubs/pdf/ah717/, or while copies last, from (202) 694- 5050. "Put Your Ideas to the Test: How to Conduct Research on Your Farm or Ranch" and "Diversify Crops for Profit and Stewardship" are both free from USDA's Sustainable Agriculture Network at (301) 504-6422; or on the Internet at www.sare.org/san/htdocs/pubs/. UPCOMING EVENTS October 25-27, "Utilizing Organics and Recyclables: Waste Management for the Millennium" will be held in Cedar Rapids, IA; contact BioCycle, 1-800-661-4905. November 2-5, Wetlands Regulatory Workshop, sponsored by the EPA, will be held in Atlantic City, NJ.; contact Ralph J. Spagnolo, EPA Environmental Services Division, Philadelphia, PA; (215) 814-2718. November 5-6, National Small Farm Trade Show and Conference will be held in Columbia, MO; contact Ron Macher, Small Farm Today, 1-800-633-2535. November 5-7, "Introduction to Permaculture" will be held in Occidental, CA; contact Philip Tymon, Occidental Arts and Ecology Center, (707) 874-1557; oaec@igc.org. November 7-9, "Cultivating the Farm-City Connection," the 15th California Farm Conference, will be held in Berkeley, CA; contact Community Alliance with Family Farmers; (510) 222-5091; kbarzin@compuserve.com. November 8, "Cutting Through Red Tape," an institutional change workshop, will be held in Spokane, WA; contact Kim Leval, Center for Rural Affairs, 454 Willamette St. #204, Eugene, OR 97401; (541) 687-1490; kimleval@earthlink.net. November 12-13, "Delmarva Coastal Bays Conference III: Tri-State Approaches to Preserving Aquatic Resources" will be held in Ocean City, MD; contact Assateague Coastal Trust, P.O. Box 731, Berlin, MD 21811; (410) 629-1538; act@beachin.net. November 11-13, "Just Food," the Northeast Community Supported Agriculture Conference II, will be held in Tamiment, PA; contact Just Food, P.O. Box 1151, New York, NY 10013; (212) 677-1602; necsa@justfood.org. November 13, Center for Rural Affairs' Annual Meeting will be held in South Sioux City, NE; contact CFRA, P.O. Box 406, Walthill, NE 68967; (402) 846-5428; info@cfra.org. November 12-14, "Planting Local Seeds, Renewing Local Communities," the Carolina Farm Stewardship Association's 14th Annual Sustainable Agriculture Conference, will be held in High Point, NC; contact Tony Kleese, CFSA, P.O. Box 448, Pittsboro, NC 27312; (919) 542- 2402; tkleese@aol.com. November 13-18, "Introduction to Holistic Grazing and Land Planning" will be held in Sunrise Springs, NM; contact Center for Holistic Management, 1010 Tijeras NW, Albuquerque, NM 87102; (505) 842-5252. November 19 is the deadline for papers and posters for "Gateway to the Future -- Conserving Private Land," the Soil and Water Conservation Society's Annual Conference, on July 8-11, 2000; information is available on the Internet at www.swcs.org. November 19-20, "Developing Alternative Agricultural Marketing Skills for the New Millennium," the North Central SARE's Marketing Conference, will be held in Lincoln, NE; contact Lisa Bauer, SARE, (402) 472-0265; lbauer2@unl.edu. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 17:12:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25540 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18945 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:17:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18835 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:17:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.145.47] (dialup-0303.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.145.47]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA36446 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:15:48 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:20:09 +0100 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: Breaking news/Terminator Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3024 >WHEEEEEE! >(Does anyone else have the terminator technology?) >More and more encouraged, Ann Gras > Monsanto don't have it yet. What they are in the process of doing is buying the company that has patented the research so far done. Its 5 - 10 years off and a heck of a lot of investment away. Which, together with the yuk factor impact on consumers, is probably why they've backed off - after all they've already got huge investments that haven't paid off yet without adding to their cash flow problems kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 17:39:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26091 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17876 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:05:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17865 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <42TV9RYD>; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:04:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'flylo@txcyber.com'" Subject: FW: Organic Landscape (too much?) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:04:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3025 Forwarding from Martha (flyto@txcyber.com) From: flylo@txcyber.com To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:31:32 -0500 Subject: Organic Landscape (too much?) Priority: normal I've been glazing over when I read some posts, and may have missed a huge part of this thread. If I've butted in where I'm obviously misinformed, forgive me. One thing I see that the folk who subscribe to the 'we have plenty' argument seem to miss is the quality of the food produced. If we (corporate America) can go to SE Asia and convince them to grow our rice because it produces 7x the quantity their traditional varieties do, we've done a good thing, right? What if that 7x requires at least 7x the available land and labor to produce it? What if, once it's produced, it TAKES that much to feed a family because the nutritive quality is diminished from what they used to eat? So, are we really producing too much food? or just too much of the wrong food? If the wheat we harvest and the corn we feed our (food producing) livestock lack the nutritional aspects too, what are we promoting? And, I confess I do promote it. We all do to some extent unless we're totally self sufficient. I still buy commercial grains for my dairy goats, and I use store bought flour to make my bread. (martha) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 17:46:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26207 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13325 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:58:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13203 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <42TV9RWM>; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:57:48 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: NY Times: Priest vs. 'Big Chicken' in Fight for Labor Rights Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:57:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3026 -----Original Message----- From: Fred Magdoff To: Andy Clark Sent: 10/6/99 5:39 PM Subject: should be of interest Andy, This article below from today's NY Times should be of interest to folks on sanet-mg. FRED October 6, 1999 Priest vs. 'Big Chicken' in Fight for Labor Rights By STEVEN GREENHOUSE GEORGETOWN, Del. -- It was an incongruous sight, the white-haired priest in black shirt and white collar, standing in an immense poultry house filled with thousands of clucking birds and the acrid stench of manure. The priest, the Rev. Jim Lewis, was in this unlikely place because the Episcopal Church has assigned him an unlikely mission: to improve the lives of Delaware's chicken farmers and poultry plant workers. Lewis says his work is akin to that of the Old Testament prophets who railed against injustices, but the state's powerful poultry industry describes him as a one-man plague. Day after day, as he muddies his feet in manure meeting with embittered farmers and poultry workers, Lewis harbors no doubt that he is doing the Lord's work in confronting an industry he calls Big Chicken. "My big beef with Big Chicken is it's a greedy industry," said Lewis, who is based in this southern Delaware town at the hub of the region's poultry industry. "Greed is a good old-fashioned spiritual concern." This hard-driving clergyman, a former marine and former all-state football player, has earned the industry's opprobrium by preaching against its ways, skewering it for driving too hard a bargain with chicken farmers and workers who spend hour after hour hacking away at chicken parts in cold, damp plants. During many of the sermons he is invited to give at churches up and down the Delaware and Maryland shore, he tosses pieces of chicken out into the congregation, and asks, "Can you see the fingerprints that are on this chicken?" Through his unusual ministry, Lewis, 64, has earned a reputation among religious leaders as a leading practitioner of a growing trend in which hundreds of American priests, ministers and rabbis are using their pulpits and moral stature to fight for workers, especially those on the bottom rungs. Often his ministry seems equal parts caring and daring. He has formed an unusual multiracial alliance of plant workers, farmers and environmentalists to stand up to the powerful industry. He once angered union, industry and church leaders by helping lead a wildcat strike against a poultry plant where a worker was fired after he had a finger cut off. He has condemned poultry companies for not providing health insurance to chicken catchers, who have the dangerous job of cramming thousands of chickens into cages each day before they are shipped to slaughter. He organized a one-day visit by five members of Congress, who heard workers complain of injuries from chopping chickens all day long and of wages so low that they qualified for welfare. Lewis' coalition, the Delmarva Poultry Justice Alliance, has become one of the most powerful voices in one of the nation's leading poultry areas, the Delmarva peninsula in eastern Delaware, Maryland and Virginia, which produces 3 billion pounds of chicken each year thanks to the peninsula's 2,700 chicken farms, 11 poultry processing plants and 15,000 poultry workers. The alliance includes African-American chicken catchers, Hispanic slaughterhouse workers, and white chicken farmers who say that poultry companies like Perdue squeeze them so hard that they barely break even. It also includes environmentalists who say the mountains of chicken manure the industry produces are fouling the Chesapeake Bay and nearby rivers. George Cmael, executive director of the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, an environmental group, said, "Rev. Lewis is something else. He has the ability to tell a compelling story and to bring what others may view as disparate interests together." When Lewis stopped in at Carole Morison's farm in Pocomoke City, Md., while doing his alliance-building, she gave him an earful about the poultry corporations. The industry exploits her by not paying enough for her chickens, she said. She complained that her family farm has lost money the past two years, after she and her husband invested $220,000 to build two 500-foot-long chicken houses a decade ago. To make ends meet, her husband has had to take a full-time job with a farm equipment dealer. Perdue periodically gives her 54,000 chicks a day old. Then over seven weeks she raises them to be five-pound broilers. Perdue pays her 16 cents a bird, after subtracting the cost of Perdue-supplied chicken feed and medicine. Mrs. Morison, who lives with her husband and son in a $20,000 trailer, said Perdue also required her to spend $30,000 on a metal manure shed to reduce the runoff of manure into nearby streams. "The manure shed is worth more than the house we live in because I can't afford more for a house," she said. Mrs. Morison said Perdue Farms also told her to install a $15,000 drinking system for her chickens, adding that if she did not agree, she risked losing her contract and being blackballed by the industry. To add insult to financial injury, she said Perdue's engineers declared that system obsolete three years after she installed it. "It's indentured servitude, that's what it is," she said. "This is a David and Goliath situation, and the poultry alliance has given us a voice to help level the playing field." Lewis first showed up at the Morisons' door in 1995, soon after the Episcopal Bishop of Delaware hired him. That bishop, Cabell Tennis, now retired, said he wanted Lewis to help those working in the chicken industry, to go beyond giving care and charity and to work to change social structures in a way that would help eliminate poverty. But industry officials often accuse Lewis of being deaf to their side of the story. Bill Satterfield, executive director of the Delmarva Poultry Industry Association, said, "The church certainly has a role in improving the quality of life, but they're not the only ones who have concerns about the quality of life." He said only a small minority of chicken growers supported the alliance. Lewis countered that many growers support it but are too intimidated to speak out. Perdue asked Satterfield to respond on its behalf. He called Lewis' attacks inflammatory and often inaccurate. "The industry is providing employment to thousands of people and is helping feed the world with a safe product," he said. "I don't understand what he means when he says we're a greedy industry. Our industry pays a competitive wage. They hire people who otherwise would be unemployed. Many Hispanic workers come to this area because of the opportunities this industry has provided." The bishop sounded pleased and vindicated by these complaints. "If I were the industry I'd probably have those feelings," said Tennis. "That's just another way of saying, 'We're uncomfortable.' The church's function is to make institutions uncomfortable. If we weren't making ourselves and others uncomfortable, we're probably not doing our job." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 17:58:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26528 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:58:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24864 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:18:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24753 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-4.ofrf.org (ofrf4.tychonet.com [205.179.36.4]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id OAA27041 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:16:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from research@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19991006141053.00b20470@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: ofrf@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:14:19 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: re: Organic and nutrition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_94838270==_.ALT" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3027 --=====================_94838270==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by scruz.net id OAA27041 The request for data supporting the claim that organic foods are nutritionally superior to conventional comes into our office about once a= week. What we tell people requesting this information is that there is no defin= itive study or report that nicely sums it up and supports that claim. We have compiled a bibliography, which I've attached, that came from sanet postin= gs and other odds and ends which contains articles and research reports around t= he subject.=20 I have also attached (in a subsesquent e-mail) an article that ap= peared in OFRF's Fall 1996 Information Bulletin newsletter. It is by Joan Dye Gu= ssow. She does an excellent review of the complications around researching this question as well as the other more social implications of trying to find = this answer.=20 She raises two important questions in her article: "...given the modern opportunities for what I have come to call informati= on pollution do you really want to hang your future on putting out comparati= ve numbers rather than focusing on the environmental reasons why organic production is better for people?"=20 and "...why would you want organic consumers to end up focused on numbers= that can so readily be modified to reflect nothing about the original produce?= " Her concluding statement is: "If the industry wants to get proof of nutritional superiority, you may b= e able to do it. But someone will have to pay for well-designed long-term contro= lled studies of a sort that have to my knowledge not yet been done. I'm not personally convinced that such studies would be worth the money and effor= t it would like to do them--not when there are so many other good reasons to s= upport organic production." I think she raises some very provocative questions that have yet to be se= ttled by this industry. If anyone would like a reprint of that article, please contact us at OFRF. Rebecca King OFRF Program Associate=20 NUTRITION OF ORGANIC FOODS =20 Contacts: Elm Farm Research Centre Ecological Agriculture Pr= oject Hamstead Marshall Box 191, MacDonald Colleg= e Near Newbury 21, 111 Lakeshore Berkshire RG15 OHR Ste-Anne DeBellevue, Queb= ec GREAT BRITAIN CANADA H9X 1CO Will Newman II William Lockeretz Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust School of Nutriti= on Science & Policy P.O. Box 1106 Tufts University Canby, OR 97013-1106 Medford, MA 02155 (503) 263-8392 (617) 627-3222 Bibliography: Alvarez, C.E., Carracedo, A.E., Iglesias, E. & Martinez M.C. 1993. Pineap= ples cultivated by=20 conventional and organic methods in a soil from a banana plantation. A comparative study =20 of soil fertility, plant nutrition, and yields. Biological Agriculture an= d Horticulture. 9:161-171.=20 Anon. 1988. The value of organic food. The Living Earth. July-September.= p. 16-17.=20 Anon. 1992. Towards a new definition of food quality. NOFA-NY News. January/February. p.3 &6. Ausebel, Kenny. 1994. Seeds of Change: The Living Treasure.=20 HarperSanFrancisco, San Francisco,=20 CA 232p. Beddoe, A. F. 1992. Nourishment Home Grown. Agro-Bio Systems, Grass Vall= ey, CA 299p. Blatt, C.R. & McRae, K.B. 1998. Comparison of four organic amendments wit= h a chemical=20 fertilizer applied to three vegetables in rotation. Agriculture and Agri-= Food Canada.=20 Clancy, Katherine L. 1986. The role of sustainable agriculture in improv= ing the safety and quality of=20 the food supply. American Journal of Alternative Agriculture. Winter. P. 11-18. Comis, Don. 1989. Nitrogen overload may shrivel vitamin content. Agricul= tural Research. July.=20 P.10-11 Eggert, F. P. 1983. Effect of soil management practices on yield and fol= iar nutrient concentration of=20 dry beans, carrots, and tomatoes. Pl. 247-259 In: Lockeretz, W. (ed.) Environmentally Sound=20 Agriculture. Praeger Scientific, NY. Evers, Aino-Maija 1989. Effects of different fertilization practices on t= he NO3-N, N, P, K, Ca, Mg, =20 ash and dietary fibre contents of carrot. Journal of Agricultural Science= in Finland. 61:99-111. =20 Feenstra, Gail. 1992. Vitamin and mineral contents of carrot and celeria= c grown under mineral or=20 organic fertilization. Components. Vol. 3, No. 1 p. 9-10. Review of Lec= lerc, J. et al. 1991.=20 Biological Agriculture and Horticulture, Vol. 7 p. 339-348. Fischer, Ada, and C.H. Richter. 1986. Influence of organic and mineral fertilizers on yield and=20 quality of potatoes. P. 236-248. In: The Importance of Biological Agriculture in a World of=20 Diminishing Resources. Proceeding of the 5th IFOAM International Scientif= ic Conference at=20 the University of Kassel (Germany). Fulton, M.C., Bell, L.C., & Asher, C.J. 1996. Mineral nutrition of cassav= a (Manihot esculenta =20 Crantz) grown in replaced soil after bauxite mining at Weipa, Queensland.= =20 Australian Journal of Experimental Agriculture. 36: 905-912.=20 Hildenbrand, Gar 1989. Nutritional superiority of organically grown foods. Healing Newsletter. =20 5(2):1-8. Hood, Sam. 1993. Exhausted soil produces exhausted people. Acres, USA. = June p.30 &39. Hornick, Sharon B. 1992. Factors affecting the nutritional quality of c= rops.=20 American Journal of=20 Alternative Agriculture. Vol.7, No.1-2. P.63-68. Howard, Sir Albert. 1947. The Soil and Health. The Devin-Adair Co., New= York. 307 p. Kenton, Leslie. 1988. Eat organic, and live well. The Secrets of Ecolog= ical Agriculture. The Living=20 Earth. July-September. P.17-18. Knorr, Dietrich. 1982. Natural and organic foods: definitions, quality a= nd problems. Cereal Foods=20 World. Vol. 27, No.4. p. 163-168. Knorr, Dietrich. 1982. Use of a circular chromatographic method for the distinction of collard plants=20 grown under different fertilizing conditions. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. Vol.1.=20 p.29-38. Knorr, Dietrich, and Harmut Vogtmann. 1983. Quality of and quality determination of ecologically=20 grown foods. P.352-381. In: Knorr, Dietrich (ed.) Sustainable Food System= s. The AVI=20 Publishing Co., Westport, CT. Lairon, D. et al. 1986. Effects of organic and mineral fertilizations o= n the contents of vegetables in=20 minerals, vitamin C, and nitrates. P. 249-260. In: The Importance of Biol= ogical Agriculture=20 in a World of Diminishing Resources. Proceeding of the 5th IFOAM Internat= ional Scientific=20 Conference at the University of Kassel (Germany). Lampkin, Nicolas. 1990. Organic Farming. Farming Press, Ipswich, United Kingdom. p.557-573,=20 and 608-610. Lockeretz, William. (ed.) 1997. Conference Proceedings: Agricultural Prod= uction and Nutrition.=20 Tufts University School of Nutrition Science and Policy, Medford, MA.=20 Maga, Joseph A. 1983. Organically grown foods. P.305-349. In: Knorr, Diet= rich (ed.) Sustainable=20 Food Systems. The AVI Publishing Co., Westport, CT. McSheelhy, T.W. 1977. Nutritive value of wheat grown under organic and chemical systems of=20 farming. Qualitas Planatarum - Plant Foods for Human Nutrition. Vol. 27. P.113-123. Mozafar, A. 1994. Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with applicatio= n of organic fertilizers.=20 Plant and Soil. 167:305-311. Nilsson, T. 1979. Yield, storage ability, quality, and chemical compositi= on of carrot, cabbage and=20 leek at conventional and organic fertilizing. Acta Horticulturae. 93: 20= 9-223. Peavy, William S., and Warren Peary. 1993. Super Nutrition Gardening. Ave= ry Publishing Co.,=20 Garden City, NY 236p. Pettersson, B.D., & Wistinghausen, E. v. Effects of organic and inorganic fertilizers on soils and=20 crops: Results of a long term field experiment in Sweden. Woods End Agricultural Institute. Plochberger, K. 1989. Feeding experiments. A criterion for quality estima= tion of biologically and=20 conventionally produced foods. Agriculture, Ecosystems, and Environment= . Vol. 27. P.419- 428. Reiners, Stephen 1993. Nutritional quality of organically grown vegetable= s. HortTechnology. =20 July/Sept. 3(3): 363. Rowlands, Moses John, & Wilkinson, Barbara 1930. The vitamin B content of= grass seeds in=20 relationship to manures. Biochemical Journal. 24:199-204. Schuphan, Werner 1972. Effects of the application of inorganic and organi= c manures on the market =20 quality and on the biological value of agricultural products. Qual. Plan= t. Mater. Veg. 21(4): 381-398.=20 Schuphan, Werner 1974. Experimental contributions to the problem of impro= ving the nutritional=20 quality of food plants. Qual. Plant. - Pl. Fds. hum. Nutr. 24(1/2):1-18. Schuphan, Werner 1974. Nutritional value of crops as influenced by organi= c and inorganic fertilizer=20 treatments. Qual. Plant. - Pl. Fds. hum. Nutr. 23(4): 333-358. Schupman, W. 1975. Yield maximisation versus biological value. Qualitas Planatarum - Plant Food=20 for Human Nutrition. Vol. 27. P.281-310. Shier, N.W. et al. 1984. A comparison of crude protein, moisture, ash an= d crop yield between=20 organic and conventionally grown wheat. Nutrition Reports International. Vol.30, No.1.=20 p.71-77. Smith, Bob L. 1993. Organic foods vs. supermarket foods: Element levels. Journal of Applied=20 Nutrition. 45(1).=20 Svec, L.V., Thoroughgood, C.A., & Mok, Hyo Chung S. (1976). Chemical eval= uation of vegetables=20 grown with conventional or organic soil amendments. Communications in Soi= l Science and =20 Plant Analysis. 7(2):213-228.=20 Velimirov, A. et al. 1992. The influence of biologically and conventional= ly cultivated food on the=20 fertility of rats. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. Vo..8. p.325-337. Vogtman, H. (1978). Effects of Agricultural Practices on soil and plant quality. IFOAM Bulletin.=20 24:1-6. Wright, D.H. & Coleman, D.C. (1988). Soil faunal vs. fertilization effect= s on plant nutrition: results of a biocide experiment. Biol. Fertil. Soils. 7:= 46-52. NOTE: A familiar citing on the issue of the nutritional content of organi= cally versus conventionally produced food is the 1948 Rutgers University report =93Variation in Mineral Content in Vegetables=94 by Firman E. Bear publis= hed in the Proceedings of the Soil Science Society of America. However, this study = did not investigate organic versus commercial produce. The tables were mis-p= rinted to read as organic versus non-organic and for years it has circulated as = fact. The study examined the mineral composition of vegetables grown on differe= nt soil types. They found that vegetables grown on heavy soils in the Ohio V= alley had a greater mineral content than produce grown on sandy Coastal Plain s= oils near the East Coast. These results are important because they show that s= oil typeand probably soil organic matter contentaffect the mineral compositio= n of foods grown on them. However, there are many environmental and cultural f= actors that influence the nutritional composition of produce and these may ultim= ately play a greater role in food quality the simple organic versus conventiona= l logic. Source: e-mail from steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu (Steve Diver, Fayetteville, A= R), May 1, 1996. Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 ph: (831) 426-6606 fax: (831) 426-6670 www.ofrf.org=20 --=====================_94838270==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable         The request for data supporting the claim that organic foods are nutritionally superior to conventional comes into our office about once a week. What we tell people requesting this information is that there is no definitive study or report that nicely sums it up and supports that claim. We have compiled a bibliography, which I've attached, that came from sanet postings and other odds and ends which contains articles and research reports around the subject.

            I have also attached (in a subsesquent e-mail) an article that appeared in OFRF's Fall 1996 Information Bulletin newsletter. It is by Joan Dye Gussow. She does an excellent review of the complications around researching this question as well as the other more social implications of trying to find this answer.

    She raises two important questions in her article:
    "...given the modern opportunities for what I have come to call information pollution do you really want to hang your future on putting out comparative numbers rather than focusing on the environmental reasons why organic production is better for people?"

    and "...why would you want organic consumers to end up focused on numbers that can so readily be modified to reflect nothing about the original produce?"

    Her concluding statement is:
    "If the industry wants to get proof of nutritional superiority, you may be able to do it. But someone will have to pay for well-designed long-term controlled studies of a sort that have to my knowledge not yet been done.  I'm not personally convinced that such studies would be worth the money and effort it would like to do them--not when there are so many other good reasons to support organic production."

    I think she raises some very provocative questions that have yet to be settled by this industry. If anyone would like a reprint of that article, please contact us at OFRF.

    Rebecca King
    OFRF Program Associate

    NUTRITION OF ORGANIC FOODS      

    Contacts:
    Elm Farm Research Centre        =           &= nbsp;     Ecological Agriculture Project
    Hamstead Marshall       &nbs= p;          = ;          =    Box 191, MacDonald College
    Near Newbury        = ;          =           <= /x-tab>        21, 111 Lakeshore
    Berkshire RG15 OHR        &nb= sp;         &nbs= p;          = ; Ste-Anne DeBellevue, Quebec
    GREAT BRITAIN        = ;          =          CANADA H9X 1CO

    Will Newman II        &nbs= p;                 &nb= sp;       William Lockeretz
    Oregon Sustainable Agriculture Land Trust        &= nbsp;      School of Nutrition Science & Policy
    P.O. Box 1106        &n= bsp;         &nb= sp;                
    Tufts University
    Canby, OR 97013-1106       &n= bsp;         &nb= sp;         &nbs= p;Medford, MA 02155
    (503) 263-8392       &nbs= p;          = ;                
    (617) 627-3222

    Bibliography:

    Alvarez, C.E., Carracedo, A.E., Iglesias, E. & Martinez M.C. 1993. Pineapples cultivated by
    conventional and organic methods in a soil from a banana plantation. A comparative study=20

    of soil fertility, plant nutrition, and yields. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. 9:161-171.
    Anon. 1988.  The value of organic food. The Living Earth. July-September. p. 16-17.
    Anon. 1992.  Towards a new definition of food quality. NOFA-NY News. January/February. p.3 &6.
    Ausebel, Kenny. 1994.  Seeds of Change: The Living Treasure.  HarperSanFrancisco, San Francisco,
    CA 232p.
    Beddoe, A. F. 1992.  Nourishment Home Grown. Agro-Bio Systems, Grass Valley, CA 299p.
    Blatt, C.R. & McRae, K.B. 1998. Comparison of four organic amendments with a chemical
    fertilizer applied to three vegetables in rotation. Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada.
    Clancy, Katherine L. 1986.  The role of sustainable agriculture in improving the safety and quality of
    the food supply.  American Journal of Alternative Agriculture. Winter. P. 11-18.
    Comis, Don. 1989.  Nitrogen overload may shrivel vitamin content. Agricultural Research. July.
    P.10-11
    Eggert, F. P. 1983.  Effect of soil management practices on yield and foliar nutrient concentration of
    dry beans, carrots, and tomatoes. Pl. 247-259 In: Lockeretz, W. (ed.) Environmentally Sound
    Agriculture
    . Praeger Scientific, NY.
    Evers, Aino-Maija 1989. Effects of different fertilization practices on the NO3-N, N, P, K, Ca, Mg,=20
    ash and dietary fibre contents of carrot. Journal of Agricultural Science in Finland. 61:99-111.        
    Feenstra, Gail. 1992.  Vitamin and mineral contents of carrot and celeriac grown under mineral or
    organic fertilization.  Components.  Vol. 3, No. 1 p. 9-10. Review of Leclerc, J. et al. 1991.
    Biological Agriculture and Horticulture, Vol. 7 p. 339-348.
    Fischer, Ada, and C.H. Richter. 1986.  Influence of organic and mineral fertilizers on yield and
    quality of potatoes. P. 236-248. In: The Importance of Biological Agriculture in a World of
    Diminishing Resources
    . Proceeding of the 5
    th IFOAM International Scientific Conference at
    the University of Kassel (Germany).
    Fulton, M.C., Bell, L.C., & Asher, C.J. 1996. Mineral nutrition of cassava (Manihot esculenta=20
    Crantz) grown in replaced soil after bauxite mining at Weipa, Queensland.  Australian Journal of Experimental Agriculture.  36: 905-912.
    Hildenbrand, Gar 1989. Nutritional superiority of organically grown foods. Healing Newsletter
    5(2):1-8.
    Hood, Sam. 1993.  Exhausted soil produces exhausted people.  Acres, USA. June p.30 &39.
    Hornick, Sharon B.  1992.  Factors affecting the nutritional quality of crops.  American Journal of
    Alternative Agriculture
    . Vol.7, No.1-2. P.63-68.
    Howard, Sir Albert.  1947. The Soil and Health.  The Devin-Adair Co., New York. 307 p.
    Kenton, Leslie. 1988.  Eat organic, and live well.  The Secrets of Ecological Agriculture. The Living
    Earth
    . July-September. P.17-18.
    Knorr, Dietrich. 1982.  Natural and organic foods: definitions, quality and problems.  Cereal Foods
    World
    . Vol. 27, No.4. p. 163-168.
    Knorr, Dietrich. 1982.  Use of a circular chromatographic method for the distinction of collard plants
    grown under different fertilizing conditions. Biological Agriculture and Horticulture. Vol.1.
    p.29-38.
    Knorr, Dietrich, and Harmut Vogtmann. 1983. Quality of and quality determination of ecologically
    grown foods. P.352-381. In: Knorr, Dietrich (ed.) Sustainable Food Systems. The AVI
    Publishing Co., Westport, CT.
    Lairon, D. et al.  1986.  Effects of organic and mineral fertilizations on the contents of vegetables in
    minerals, vitamin C, and nitrates. P. 249-260. In: The Importance of Biological Agriculture
    in a World of Diminishing Resources
    . Proceeding of the 5
    th IFOAM International Scientific
    Conference at the University of Kassel (Germany).
    Lampkin, Nicolas.  1990. Organic Farming. Farming Press, Ipswich, United Kingdom. p.557-573,
    and 608-610.
    Lockeretz, William. (ed.) 1997. Conference Proceedings: Agricultural Production and Nutrition.
    Tufts University School of Nutrition Science and Policy, Medford, MA.
    Maga, Joseph A. 1983. Organically grown foods. P.305-349. In: Knorr, Dietrich (ed.) Sustainable
    Food Systems
    . The AVI Publishing Co., Westport, CT.
    McSheelhy, T.W.  1977.  Nutritive value of wheat grown under organic and chemical systems of
    farming. Qualitas Planatarum - Plant Foods for Human Nutrition. Vol. 27. P.113-123.
    Mozafar, A. 1994. Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic fertilizers.
    Plant and Soil. 167:305-311.
    Nilsson, T. 1979. Yield, storage ability, quality, and chemical composition of carrot, cabbage and
    leek at conventional and organic fertilizing. Acta Horticulturae.  93: 209-223.
    Peavy, William S., and Warren Peary. 1993. Super Nutrition Gardening. Avery Publishing Co.,
    Garden City, NY 236p.
    Pettersson, B.D., & Wistinghausen, E. v. Effects of organic and inorganic fertilizers on soils and
    crops: Results of a long term field experiment in Sweden. Woods End Agricultural Institute.
    Plochberger, K. 1989. Feeding experiments. A criterion for quality estimation of biologically and=20
    conventionally produced foods.   Agriculture, Ecosystems, and Environment. Vol. 27. P.419-
    428.
    Reiners, Stephen 1993. Nutritional quality of organically grown vegetables. HortTechnology
    July/Sept. 3(3): 363.
    Rowlands, Moses John, & Wilkinson, Barbara 1930. The vitamin B content of grass seeds in
    relationship to manures. Biochemical Journal. 24:199-204.
    Schuphan, Werner 1972. Effects of the application of inorganic and organic manures on the market=20
    quality and on the biological value of agricultural products.  Qual. Plant. Mater. Veg. 21(4): 381-398.
    Schuphan, Werner 1974. Experimental contributions to the problem of improving the nutritional
    quality of food plants. Qual. Plant. - Pl. Fds. hum. Nutr. 24(1/2):1-18.
    Schuphan, Werner 1974. Nutritional value of crops as influenced by organic and inorganic fertilizer
    treatments. Qual. Plant. - Pl. Fds. hum. Nutr.  23(4): 333-358.
    Schupman, W. 1975.  Yield maximisation versus biological value. Qualitas Planatarum - Plant Food
    for Human Nutrition
    .  Vol. 27. P.281-310.
    Shier, N.W. et al. 1984.  A comparison of crude protein, moisture, ash and crop yield between
    organic and conventionally grown wheat. Nutrition Reports International. Vol.30, No.1.
    p.71-77.
    Smith, Bob L. 1993. Organic foods vs. supermarket foods: Element levels. Journal of Applied
    Nutrition.
    45(1).
    Svec, L.V., Thoroughgood, C.A., & Mok, Hyo Chung S. (1976). Chemical evaluation of vegetables
    grown with conventional or organic soil amendments. Communications in Soil Science and=20
    Plant Analysis. 7(2):213-228.
    Velimirov, A. et al. 1992. The influence of biologically and= conventionally cultivated food on the
    fertility of rats.  Biological Agriculture and= Horticulture.  Vo..8. p.325-337.
    Vogtman, H. (1978). Effects of= Agricultural Practices on soil and plant quality. IFOAM Bulletin.=
    24:1-6.
    Wright, D.H. & Coleman, D.C. (1988). Soil faunal vs. fertilization= effects on plant nutrition: results of a biocide experiment. Biol.= Fertil. Soils. 7:46-52.

    NOTE: A familiar citing on the= issue of the nutritional content of organically versus conventionally= produced food is the 1948 Rutgers University report =93Variation in Mineral= Content in Vegetables=94 by Firman E. Bear published in the Proceedings of= the Soil Science Society of America.  However, this study did not= investigate organic versus commercial produce.  The tables were= mis-printed to read as organic versus non-organic and for years it has= circulated as fact. The study examined the mineral composition of= vegetables grown on different soil types. They found that vegetables grown= on heavy soils in the Ohio Valley had a greater mineral content than= produce grown on sandy Coastal Plain soils near the East Coast. These= results are important because they show that soil typeand probably soil= organic matter contentaffect the mineral composition of foods grown on= them. However, there are many environmental and cultural factors that= influence the nutritional composition of produce and these may ultimately= play a greater role in food quality the simple organic versus conventional= logic.
    Source: e-mail from steved@ncatfyv.uark.edu (Steve Diver, Fayetteville, AR),= May 1, 1996.

    Organic Farming Research Foundation
    P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061
    ph: (831) 426-6606 fax: (831) 426-6670
    www.ofrf.org --=====================_94838270==_.ALT-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 17:58:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26536 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:58:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18874 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:08:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex1.theitgroup.com (itcrp.com [207.247.16.114]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18795 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by torrex1.theitgroup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <4KDHYGSR>; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:06:26 -0700 Message-ID: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE49430F@KNOXEX1> From: "Cole, Ralph" To: "'Misha'" , SANET-mg Subject: RE: "Evolution" deleted, reverting to spirituality Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:09:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3028 > -----Original Message----- > From: Misha [SMTP:mgs23@pacbell.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 1:15 PM > To: SANET-mg > Subject: "Evolution" deleted from KY school guidelines > > How ironic that this comes across the very morning that, sleepless at > 5 a.m., I finished off a draft for you all [Cole, Ralph] (save your > breath next time) on the selection-mutation > balance in regards to this question of antibiotic resistance and > organic farming. > > Evolution holds that life changes. Humans evolving from more > "primitive" species is such a small and unimportant part of that > demonstrated view of the biology of life, that these people's focus > on that demonstrates the narrowness of their views and their refusal > to even consider facts that don't fit with their biases. [Cole, Ralph] Whoa, there Misha woman! Who's wearing the blinders now? To jump right back into the spiritual thread material that ended a few weeks ago, [section deleted]. I formerly thought as you do. I was weaned in the geology department of a large land grant university. But, oh, how ignorant we are! The theory of evolution will always be just that - a theory - until it is replaced by another popular attempt to explain our existence without an understanding of God. How can we see beyond the boundary events of creation and eternity from these mortal bodies?Remember how smart you thought you were when you were 12 years old? How smart does you 12 year old mentality appear now? Well, we (as a secular culture) are still in an infantile state of ignorance. Every generation thinks they are the penultimate cerebral authority and enlightened beyond measure. Or have you not read Ecclesiastes? Why not come down off your high horse and admit that people-kind is really just making eloquent gibberish when it comes to trying to explain the ultimate purpose of our existence. I'm really glad that you are "happy with your gods", but just remember there is something much greater than you can concieve of in all your vain imagination. ECC 2:24 A man can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in his work. This too, I see, is from the hand of God, 25 for without him, who can eat or find enjoyment? 26 To the man who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind. Apologies to the group for this diatribe. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 17:59:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26568 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24731 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:17:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from scruz.net (nic.scruz.net [165.227.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24581 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ofrf-4.ofrf.org (ofrf4.tychonet.com [205.179.36.4]) by scruz.net (8.8.5/1.34) with SMTP id OAA26986 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:16:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from research@ofrf.org) Message-Id: <4.1.19991006141329.00b6a8d0@mail.scruznet.com> X-Sender: ofrf@mail.scruznet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:14:07 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Organic Farming Research Foundation Subject: re:Organic and nutrition contd. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_94828257==_.ALT" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3029 --=====================_94828257==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Guest Commentary Joan Dye Gussow, Ed.D, Is Organic Food More Nutritious? And Is That the Right Question? My interest in the nutritional value of organic as compared to conventional foods began in the late 1960s, even before I was a nutritionist. So my first piece of independent work as an experienced researcher but a beginning student in the nutrition field was an effort to examine the widespread claim that modern agriculture has created mineral deficient soils. My conclusion, after a lot of library research, was that soil contamination with lead, mercury and especially cadmium because of the over use of some rock based fertilizers was a more likely outcome than mineral deficiency. It was around this time that I became acquainted with someone fairly high up in Rodale Press, the organization which had been at the forefront of organic superiority claims. I took advantage of our meeting to press him for sources regarding the Rodale claim that organically grown produce was superior nutritionally. His response reassured me that there was not a great body of evidence that I had missed: "I guess when, we were a small beleaguered band and needed to make noise to get attention, we said a lot of things. I think the real argument for organic is environmental." By that time it was already clear to me that part of the problem in proving or disproving the claims made for organic foods arose from the way in which the studies were being done. They were always short term studies looking at produce from one field treated "organically"(usually with a shot of manure) and another field treated "conventionally." My fairly simple-minded understanding at the time was that the basis of organic was to build up the soil. Planting into any old ploughed up field meant there had not been time for organic practices to build soil fertility, nor for the chemicals to "burn up" (in the language of the time) the residual fertility in the conventional plot. Moreover, I knew enough about plant physiology to know that the mineral content of plants was largely dependent on the mineral content of the soils where they were grown, and that most differences in vitamin content were likely to be either genetic or caused by climate or other variables unrelated to specific growing techniques. Moreover, if organic produce was more nutritious, that is health promoting--not merely more nutrient filled--that fact might well not be demonstrable by comparing lists of familiar nutrients. This has become increasingly obvious recently as an ever lengthening list of "non-nutrient" substances turn out to be essential to long-term good health. If one wanted to test nutritive value, I thought, the foods--organic and conventional--would need to be fed to someone or something. So when I learned in the 1970s that the British Soil Association had been comparing conventional and organic growing for 30 years, I wrote to ask whether they had ever fed the produce to animals. They replied that they had done some animal feeding, but it was clear that they did not have the smoking gun everyone was looking for: "It is difficult to produce scientifically acceptable evidence to prove that food grown by organic methods has a higher nutritional value than food grown by controlled chemical agriculture," their General Secretary wrote. Then he added, "There is a fund of circumstantial evidence and a great deal of emotional conviction (ital mine) about the value of organically grown food for the health of both humans and animals." More than 20 years later, that's still a pretty good statement of where things stand. I have tried, in the interim, to keep abreast of efforts to answer the question of whether organic food is superior, but I must confess that my interest has flagged has a variety of often not very well designed studies have reported a confusing welter of results. In 1982, a careful researcher named Dietrich Knorr published a review of the literature until then (including the European literature) in which he noted that many of the studies "lack adequate design for sufficient comparisons, the most common problem being the insufficient duration of the studies." The studies he cited (of which there were nine) showed not consistent sensory differences between organic and conventionally grown produce; and showed or did not show an effect of differently grown wheats on the growth rate and/or reproductive performance of rats, mice and/or rabbits. The most consistent data related to higher levels of nitrate-nitrogen in conventionally grown vegetables, and a tendency for organic produce--especially potatoes--to be less watery and hence lose less weight in storage. In 1992, Hornick published in the Journal of Alternative Agriculture a paper titled "Factors affecting the nutritional quality of crops," in which she pointed out that USDA's 1980 Report and Recommendations on Organic Faming had found insufficient evidence to show organic produce nutritionally superior to conventionally grown produce. This finding, she concluded, reflected once again "the lack of scientifically sound and statistically valid data from experiments with properly controlled variables." Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Hornick's paper provides an excellent description of what can go wrong and what needs controlling in any study that hopes to do a valid comparison of organic and conventional crops. She also makes clear that showing an effect of "soil cultural and management practices on the nutritional quality of crops" is insufficient to prove organic more nutritious. It is also necessary to "assess these practices on the bioavailability of food nutrients after ingestion by humans and animals." Lacking such careful studies, there is enough cumulative evidence, to indicate--to those who wish to be convinced--that organic foods often have a variety of qualities that shouldover the long term make them more healthful--including lower levels of pesticide residue, lower levels of nitrate-nitrogen, greater density, better flavor if they are property handled, etc. But the available studies are conflicting enough and their results are varied enough to convince anyone who isn't a fan of organic, that any differences that can be demonstrated are not worth writing home about, and are certainly not a reason to promote organic food. Which leads me to two questions I think the organic industry needs to answer. The first is: given the modern opportunities for what I have come to call information pollution do you really want to hang your future on putting out comparative numbers rather than focusing on the environmental reasons why organic production is better for people? Numbers can and will be increasingly untrustworthy as we enter more deeply into the virtual world of the Internet in which factoids race about through the electrons, endlessly repeated among true believers. At least twice in the last few months people who knew of my skepticism have urged me to read studies presumably showing the superiority of organic produce. When I did so, one turned out to be irrelevant, the other invalid. As Katherine DiMatteo [Executive Director of the Organic Trade Association] has written, "How many times have we reached out and grabbed onto the newest evidence--no matter how minor, poorly substantiated or altered--that organic may be nutritionally better?" My second question is: why would you want organic consumers to end up focused on numbers that can so readily be modified to reflect nothing about the original produce? A recent description of one very successful juice company done for potential investors, notes their organic sourcing of fruits and vegetables, their emphasis on "Nourishing the body whole," and a new juice introduced in August of 1994 with women in mind. "The ingredients are fresh apricot, apple, orange, cranberry and raspberry juices plus added calcium, iron and B-vitamins." When most people can (and do) tale vitamins and minerals in pills, and when it is so easy to fortify everything with nutrients, shouldn't we hope that people will choose organic foods on grounds more reliable than whether they contain a little more carotene or zinc? Isn't the most important story that organic production conserves natural resources, solves rather than creates environmental problems, and reduces the pollution of air, water, soil,...and food? If the industry wants to get proof of nutritional superiority, you may be able to do it. But someone will have to pay for well-designed long-term controlled studies of a sort that have to my knowledge not yet been done. I'm not personally convinced that such studies would be worth the money and effort it would like to do them--not when there are so many other good reasons to support organic production. Joan Dye Gussow is Professor Emeritus of Nutrition and Education, Columbia Teachers College. This article is adapted from her talk given at OFRF's Fall 1995 conference, Legal, Regulatory and Marketing Issues Facing the Organic Products Industry, in Oakland California. Organic Farming Research Foundation P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061 ph: (831) 426-6606 fax: (831) 426-6670 www.ofrf.org --=====================_94828257==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guest Commentary           =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;            =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp; Joan Dye Gussow, Ed.D,

    Is Organic Food More Nutritious?  And Is That the Right Question?

    My interest in the nutritional value of organic as compared to conventional foods began in the late 1960s, even before I was a nutritionist.
            So my first piece of independent work as an experienced researcher but a beginning student in the nutrition field was an effort to examine the widespread claim that modern agriculture has created mineral deficient soils.  My conclusion, after a lot of library research, was that soil contamination with lead, mercury and especially cadmium because of the over use of some rock based fertilizers was a more likely outcome than mineral deficiency. 
            It was around this time that I became acquainted with someone fairly high up in
    Rodale Press, the organization which had been at the forefront of organic superiority claims.  I took advantage of our meeting to press him for sources regarding the Rodale claim that organically grown produce was superior nutritionally. His response reassured me that there was not a great body of evidence that I had missed: "I guess when, we were a small beleaguered band and needed to make noise to get attention, we said a lot of things. I think the real argument for organic is environmental."
            By that time it was already clear to me that part of the problem in proving or disproving the claims made for organic foods arose from the way in which the studies were being done.  They were always short term studies looking at produce from one field treated "organically"(usually with a shot of manure) and another field treated "conventionally." My fairly simple-minded understanding at the time was that the basis of organic was to build up the soil.  Planting into any old ploughed up field meant there had not been time for organic practices to build soil fertility, nor for the chemicals to "burn up" (in the language of the time) the residual fertility in the conventional plot.  Moreover, I knew enough about plant physiology to know that the mineral content of plants was largely dependent on the mineral content of the soils where they were grown, and that most differences in vitamin content were likely to be either genetic or caused by climate or other variables unrelated to specific growing techniques.
    Moreover, if organic produce was more nutritious, that is health promoting--not merely more nutrient filled--that fact might well not be demonstrable by comparing lists of familiar nutrients.  This has become increasingly obvious recently as an ever lengthening list of "non-nutrient" substances turn out to be essential to long-term good health.  If one wanted to test nutritive value, I thought, the foods--organic and conventional--would need to be fed to someone or something.
            So when I learned in the 1970s that the British Soil Association had been comparing conventional and organic growing for 30 years, I wrote to ask whether they had ever fed the produce to animals.  They replied that they had done some animal feeding, but it was clear that they did not have the smoking gun everyone was looking for: "It is difficult to produce scientifically acceptable evidence to prove that food grown by organic methods has a higher nutritional value than food grown by controlled chemical agriculture," their General Secretary wrote.  Then he added, "There is a fund of circumstantial evidence and a great deal of emotional conviction (ital mine) about the value of organically grown food for the health of both humans and animals." More than 20 years later, that's still a pretty good statement of where things stand.
            I have tried, in the interim, to keep abreast of efforts to answer the question of whether organic food is superior, but I must confess that my interest has flagged has a variety of often not very well designed studies have reported a confusing welter of results.  In 1982, a careful researcher named Dietrich Knorr published a review of the literature until then (including the European literature) in which he noted that many of the studies "lack adequate design for sufficient comparisons, the most common problem being the insufficient duration of the studies."
    The studies he cited (of which there were nine) showed not consistent sensory differences between organic and conventionally grown produce; and showed or did not show an effect of differently grown wheats on the growth rate and/or reproductive performance of rats, mice and/or rabbits.  The most consistent data related to higher levels of nitrate-nitrogen in conventionally grown vegetables, and a tendency for organic produce--especially potatoes--to be less watery and hence lose less weight in storage.
    In 1992, Hornick published in the Journal of Alternative Agriculture a paper titled "Factors affecting the nutritional quality of crops," in which she pointed out that USDA's 1980 Report and Recommendations on Organic Faming had found insufficient evidence to show organic produce nutritionally superior to conventionally grown produce.  This finding, she concluded, reflected once again "the lack of scientifically sound and statistically valid data from experiments with properly controlled variables." Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
            Hornick's paper provides an excellent description of what can go wrong and what needs controlling in any study that hopes to do a valid comparison of organic and conventional crops. She also makes clear that showing an effect of "soil cultural and management practices on the nutritional quality of crops" is insufficient to prove organic more nutritious. It is also necessary to "assess these practices on the bioavailability of food nutrients after ingestion by humans and animals."
            Lacking such careful studies, there is enough cumulative evidence, to indicate--to those who wish to be convinced--that organic foods often have a variety of qualities that    shouldover the long term make them more healthful--including lower levels of pesticide residue, lower levels of nitrate-nitrogen, greater density, better flavor if they are property handled, etc. But the available studies are conflicting enough and their results are varied enough to convince anyone who isn't a fan of organic, that any differences that can be demonstrated are not worth writing home about, and are certainly not a reason to promote organic food.
            Which leads me to two questions I think the organic industry needs to answer.  The first is: given the modern opportunities for what I have come to call information pollution do you really want to hang your future on putting out comparative numbers rather than focusing on the environmental reasons why organic production is better for people? Numbers can and will be increasingly untrustworthy as we enter more deeply into the virtual world of the Internet in which factoids race about through the electrons, endlessly repeated among true believers.
            At least twice in the last few months people who knew of my skepticism have urged me to read studies presumably showing the superiority of organic produce. When I did so, one turned out to be irrelevant, the other invalid.  As Katherine DiMatteo [Executive Director of the Organic Trade Association] has written, "How many times have we reached out and grabbed onto the newest evidence--no matter how minor, poorly substantiated or altered--that organic may be nutritionally better?"
    My second question is: why would you want organic consumers to end up focused on numbers that can so readily be modified to reflect nothing about the original produce?  A recent description of one very successful juice company done for potential investors, notes their organic sourcing of fruits and vegetables, their emphasis on "Nourishing the body whole," and a new juice introduced in August of 1994 with women in mind. "The ingredients are fresh apricot, apple, orange, cranberry and raspberry juices plus added calcium, iron and B-vitamins."
    When most people can (and do) tale vitamins and minerals in pills, and when it is so easy to fortify everything with nutrients, shouldn't we hope that people will choose organic foods on grounds more reliable than whether they contain a little more carotene or zinc?  Isn't the most important story that organic production conserves natural resources, solves rather than creates environmental problems, and reduces the pollution of air, water, soil,...and food?
    If the industry wants to get proof of nutritional superiority, you may be able to do it. But someone will have to pay for well-designed long-term controlled studies of a sort that have to my knowledge not yet been done.  I'm not personally convinced that such studies would be worth the money and effort it would like to do them--not when there are so many other good reasons to support organic production.

    Joan Dye Gussow is Professor Emeritus of Nutrition and Education, Columbia Teachers College. This article is adapted from her talk given at OFRF's Fall 1995 conference, Legal, Regulatory and Marketing Issues Facing the Organic Products Industry, in Oakland California.

    Organic Farming Research Foundation
    P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061
    ph: (831) 426-6606 fax: (831) 426-6670
    www.ofrf.org --=====================_94828257==_.ALT-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 18:17:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26846 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02819 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:32:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02737 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.114.172.187] (dhcp-172-52.UCSC.EDU [128.114.172.187]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id OAA09805 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:36:40 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Anne-Marie Napoli Subject: CSA Job Announcement Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3030 CSA Manager/Assistant Field Manager Position with Farm & Garden Apprenticeship University of California, Santa Cruz Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems Below is a job description for a CSA Manager/Assistant Field Manager at the 25-acre teaching farm and Apprenticeship Program which are part of the UCSC Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems (CASFS). Please pass this information on to eligible applicants you may know and/or post it where appropriate. The position will involve managing of organic field production, instructing apprentices in the CASFS Apprenticeship Program, and managing the Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) direct-marketing program, among other things. The closing date for applications is October 15, and we hope to fill the job by January 1. The starting salary for this full-time position is $28,152-$30,000/year with full benefits. Please see the job description for more details. To receive a University application form, contact (831) 459-2011 or www.ucsc.edu. For more information about the Apprenticeship and the Center for Agroecology, call (831) 459-3240, or look us up on the web at http://zzyx.ucsc.edu/casfs. If you would like to speak with Ann Lindsey directly about the position, please call (831) 459-2321 or email alindsey@cats.ucsc.edu. CSA COORDINATOR/ASSISTANT FIELD MANAGER COMMUNITY SUPPORTED AGRICULTURE (CSA) JOB #99-08-23 FULL-TIME/CAREER STARTING SALARY RANGE: $2346-$2500/month SUMMARY OF DUTIES: Under the general supervision of CASFS Farm Manager, the incumbent will coordinate the Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) project, assist with field production, and supervise and instruct apprentice crews in the CASFS Farm field and orchards. SPECIFIC RESPONSIBILITIES INCLUDE: Planning: assist with production plans for both CSA and Market Cart crops for each season; facilitate seed orders, contribute to crop planning and sowing list creation; work with Garden Managers to coordinate crop production from gardens; facilitate meetings to determine start/end dates, member numbers, share sizes, share prices, box value, etc.; attend staff meetings, planning meetings, and other committee meetings as requested. Administration and Outreach: coordinate member recruitment; coordinate the revision and production of member brochure and newsletter, pledge forms, and flyers; update and oversee payment administration and record-keeping; develop and conduct member surveys; coordinate logistics of distribution area, including parking, greeters, check-off list; recruit and organize core group members; assist with the organization of public events. Production: perform tractor work in fields and orchards; perform or oversee transplanting and direct-sowing; work with Propagation Manager to coordinate field sowings in the greenhouse; perform or oversee field irrigation, weeding, and fertilizing; assist with making field compost; prune orchards and assist with orchard management; oversee management member garden; assist with general site upkeep around buildings and landscaped areas. Crew Supervision and Instruction: coordinate apprentice work crews in all aspects of field production harvesting and direct-marketing; supervise harvest coordinators and facilitate coordination between sites; meet with work crews on a daily basis to give overview of work plan; provide orientation to new work tasks and instruction on more advanced skills; orient apprentices to appropriate and safe tool use; supervise interns, volunteers, and work study students; instruct apprentices in all aspects of management, including production, administration, and outreach; provide in-field training for apprentices in crop production including field irrigation, bed preparation, planting, fertility, pest and pathogen management, and cultivation techniques; instruct apprentices in methods of harvesting and post-harvest handling for field crops. QUALIFICATIONS INCLUDE (with or without accommodation): experience with organic row crop and fruit tree production, including harvesting and post-harvest handling of a wide variety of crops; experience with direct market sales and record-keeping; experience running a Community Supported Agriculture project including outreach, administration, and production; experience in tractor operation sufficient to perform basic operations with minimal supervision; organizational and time management skills sufficient to independently set priorities, coordinate and complete a number of competing assignments; propagation experience and skills sufficient to make soil mixes for various propagation needs, sow a wide variety of seed types and assess seedling fertilization needs; thorough understanding of organic practices necessary to maintain CCOF certification. The abilities to: set up, effectively operate, and maintain a variety of irrigation systems as well as skillfully irrigate a wide variety of crops; coordinate and teach others in a garden and/or field setting; deliver information and instruction in a clear and thorough manner, effectively and tactfully interact with diverse groups of people and work in a team situation; demonstrate strong interpersonal skills. Preferred Qualifications: training or educational background in basic agronomy or horticulture. FINAL FILING DATE 10/15/99 STARTING DATE: Current Opening This position is eligible for full benefits Application materials must reflect a job number (#99-08-23) and must be received in the Staff Human Resources Office by 5 PM on October 15, 1999. For applications, see www.ucsc.edu, call (831) 459-2011, or write Staff Human Resources, 102 Communications Building, Santa Cruz, CA 95064. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 20:02:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28219 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23520 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:19:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23445 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:19:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DigitalArk.ark.com (io6p41.ark.com [209.53.216.241]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with ESMTP id QAA26703 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:17:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199910062317.QAA26703@ark.com> From: "Ellen Rainwalker" To: Subject: Re: True costs of organic farming Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:19:48 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3031 Thank you so much, Ann, for your detailed and insightful comments about organic farming. I too will speak the unspeakable and say that I believe that some day all farming will be what we today call "organic". In fact, we could be already be halfway there if the billions of taxpayer dollars that have gone to teach and support conventional farming had gone to teach and support organic farming instead. Most of these dollars were spent at the urging of the very companies that profit from the manufacture of the inputs used in conventional farming, and the technologies developed at taxpayers expense have served mainly to put farmers and farmworkers onto the public dole while making the sellers of the technology rich. Gee, big surprise. With proper management, crops and animals actually will grow quite well without the addition of chemicals developed in a laboratory, unless we are striving for unsustainable yields, as you so eloquently stated. I am a Canadian, but as far as I know organic farming methods are not being taught anywhere in Canada. The entire Ministry of Agriculture and Food in British Columbia had, at last count, 1 person who knew anything about organic farming (and I think he quit to be a farmer). I took the Ecological Agriculture program at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, one of the very few schools that teaches this discipline As people learn more about the health and environmental effects of the materials used by conventional farmers, more and more people will refuse to buy their products and then there will be an unmeetable demand for organic food, as you say. Most agricultural chemicals have not been in use long enough for us to really assess their long-term effects (and we do not have the proper procedures in place to do a true assessment of their effects, thanks to the lobbying efforts of the companies that manufacture them). I think when we find out what their true costs, to human and animal health and to the environment, are, we will have to stop using them as it will become too expensive to sustain. There is actually no shortage of food in the world, even though many people go hungry, even in the US and Canada. People go hungry because they do not have jobs or money to buy food, or land to produce it on. Producing more food by using ever more advanced technologies will not solve their hunger problems. The idea that we need to produce more and more each year "to feed the world" doesn't really benefit the land, the animals or the farmers, it only benefits those who sell them the inputs with which to overproduce. (Look at Bovine Growth Hormone for a good example of this. In Canada we were actually successful in convincing our government that we neither needed nor wanted this technology.) Even during the Irish potato famine when millions died of hunger, Ireland was still exporting food to those who could afford to buy it, a fact I believe I learned right here on this list. Cheers, Ellen ... > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 20:22:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28835 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06371 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:24:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06348 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29414 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <47D8A62215E3D211A0890000C01530FD018B0FC1@pan.nws.orst.edu> References: <47D8A62215E3D211A0890000C01530FD018B0FC1@pan.nws.orst.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:11:30 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: RE: Soil-borne bacteria, life on earth, organics Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3032 Howdy, all-- I wrote: > > By comparison to insects (never mind humans), microbes are damnably > > smart (adaptive, creative) creatures. THINK about this: > > /Staphylococcus/ was 100 percent vulnerable to penicillin in the And Ernie (Marx) replied to me personally, off list: >Misha - a small point, but my guess would be that the >staph was 99.9% vulnerable in the beginning. It was the 0.1% that was >selected for under antibiotic pressure. If the organism were 100% >vulnerable there would be no resistant genotypes to select for. I want my response--and his catching of me--to be on list... Ernie, you are absolutely RIGHT. I left out a crucial modifier there: was ALMOST 100 percent vulnerable. Thank you for catching that!!!! peace mish ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn. --Ray Kinsella (in /Field of Dreams/) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 21:21:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29378 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16379 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:37:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16375 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:37:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx (inter669.internet.com.mx [207.249.191.39]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA27369 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:31:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991006183822.0072d7bc@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:38:22 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Technology, business or lifeway? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA16376 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3033 Dear SANET, My, my, the list is certainly active and inspired today! Ted commented that: > the hidden input (in organic agriculture), that is very expensive, is management...This management input is knowledge/experience based and I do not see the talent being developed today to shoulder the management load ..... To which Dale responded: >This phenomenon of underestimating the cost of management is pretty common. >Being a techie at heart, I have always had some disdain for management. As >I made the transition from academic research to the seed industry, it became >clear to me that managing complex systems is no small feat, and that complex >management strategies usually fail because of human factors. As a >researcher I tend to view the farmers role in primarily technical terms, but >I am realizing that farming is mainly managing a business. It is rare for >someone to be so multi-talented that they can do it all (although some >brilliant farmers come close!). > > Farming is mainly managing a business, hmmm, well...that is part of farming. We have to watch our language or it will box us in. Farming is not just technology nor is it just business, nor is it just a combination of the two. It is really a culture, including technical and business skills but, primarily, it is a way of life. It cannot be learned from scratch in one generation, although in can be lost in that time. To characterized the articulation of knowledge, skill and committment it takes to be a farmers as "management, the hidden , expensive input" is to distort reality with the language of technocracy. No one has said it better than Wendell Berry: "A competent farmer is his own boss. He has learned the disciplines necessary to go ahead on his own, as required by economic obligation, loyalty to his place, pride in his work. His workadays require the use of long experience and practiced judgment, for the failures of which he knows that he will suffer. His days do not begin and end by rule, but in response to necessity, interest and obligation." Dale rightly points to the potential positive role of the crop advisor in supporting farmers' complex tasks. The problem is, of course, our current crop advisors, even those paid with public money, are essentially furthering the agendas of chemical and seed companies, not those of farmers and consumers. It is these advisors who are responsible for what Ann Clark describes: >Farmers, with apologies to those of you who are farmers, generally do what they are told. In this case, farmers have been told - through a variety of policy, entitlement, incentive, and regulatory vehicles, let along agbiz and peer pressures - to specialize. And so they have. This doesn't mean they have to stay that way, and I would suggest, that many farmers would do things quite differently if freed from the constraints of ill-conceived government ag policies. > Berry describes what happens when farming is reduced to mere "technology and management". Contract hog and poultry growers or large scale monocrop grain growers and many others, who, seduced by crop advisors and forced into submission by wrong-headed policies, have become industrial workers on their own land, no longer a farmer but, as Berry describes: "...a specialized subordinate, dependent upon the authority and judgment of other people. His disciplines are no longer implicit in his own experience, assumptions and values, but are imposed from the outside. For a complex responsibility he has substituted a simple dutifulness, The strict competences of independence, the formal mastery, the complexities of attitude and know-how necessary to life on the farm, which have been in the making in the race of farmers since before history, all are replaced by the knowledge of some fragmentary task..." Organic agriculture is about the defense of farming as a way of life. If it were just about not poisoning our soil and food, it wouldn't have caught the imagination of farmers. In an uncharacteristic lapsus Ann says: >Conventional yields reflect billions of taxpayers dollars spent annually to research and refine technologies in support of high yield, capital-intensive, power-concentrating agriculture. Organic yields reflect the initiative and experience of what, a few scattered hippies and farmer wanna-bees? Like, come on man, - what if they *could* achieve as much per acre as a real farmer? What would that say about all the glorious yield >increases *we* have accomplished? Yeesh! Perhaps that is why researchers who publish evidence that organic yields (or milk) are comparable to conventional yields are subjected to such withering scorn, ridicule, and abuse - from their own colleagues. > Yes Ann, but here your apologies must go to organic farmers, around the world. No "hippy" or "farmer wanna-be" ever made it through the winter unless he was lucky enough to learn from a real farmer. And it is those real farmers who made organic agriculture, through generations of "complex responsibility and formal mastery", ie of farming as a lifeway. (They also learn from "techies" and academics, in fact, would like to learn more.) It is to real farmers, not to hippies, that we owe the fact that the organic option lies open to us today. Real farmers are responsible for what you, Ann Clark, see so clearly: >I foresee a vast increase in demand for organic produce in the immediate future - and I mean within 1-5 yars - which we will be wholly unable to satisfy. You are quite right in pointing out that organic farming, or ecological farming in general, is not something one can pick up and run with. I am convinced it is a site-specific experiential type of process that does not lend itself to generalization - even if we in academia had the knowledge to teach it, which we don't.. Broad principles, yes, but down-in-the-dirt day-to-day practice, no. And time is needed to earn the insights needed to make organic >farming run, both agronomically and economically. I am convinced that failure to nurture this industry right now - and I mean now, 1999 - will mean a real missed opportunity for quantum leaps in - yes, dare I say it - the wholescale introduction of organic farming into the agricultural landscape of North America. > Who will nurture organic agriculture? All of us, of course, even hippies, but mainly, farmers. Real farmers. We must care for our farmers (whether they currently practice "organic" or not), we must help defend their lifeway from reduction to technology and business, for they are the only ones who can care for us and for the earth. This ain't romanticism, folks, it's the good life. (quotes from Wendell Berry, "The Unsettling of America" 1977) Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 21:58:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29712 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11350 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:19:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11288 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx (inter1045.internet.com.mx [200.34.173.175]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA09361 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:12:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991006201407.006df150@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:14:07 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: RE: "Evolution" deleted, reverting to spirituality Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id VAA11302 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3034 Dear SANET, Evolution is not a theory. It is a scientific description of how life changes. (The 'theory of evolution' was Darwin's proposal of natural selection as the principle mechanism of evolution.) There isn't anything "unspiritual" about evolution (on the contrary), so you can go right on being a Christian or a Buddhist or a Pagan and not worry about your kids getting a good education in biology. But you better worry if they *don't* learn biology because some bible thumper gets his or her 'theories' confused with scriptures and imposes his or her ignorance on the public school system. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 23:11:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00861 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05492 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05448 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00308 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA17781 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:40:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:40:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Green Support Programs (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3035 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:12:09 -0300 From: Geb Marett To: sustag@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: Green Support Programs Hello Sustainable Agriculture Newsgroup: I am a Masters student in Canada exploring several thesis topics, one of which is the concept of green support programs, under which farm income support would be provided in return for farmers' provision of environmental protection instead of traditional measures. Environmental measures might be identified through the completion of "whole farm plans", with which I have been working for the past several months in our province. I have reviewed two excellent publications from the Henry A. Wallace Insitute, but have been unable to locate much more on the subject. Though I am dealing with the concept in a Canadian (and Nova Scotian context), and USDA or American research would be invaluable to my work. Any ideas where to start in this respect?? Thanks for any responses To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 6 23:23:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01141 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11619 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:49:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11526 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.134] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:47:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:42:15 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <2904.991006@acnet.net> To: SANET-mg Subject: Evolution, Religion and the Avery's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3036 Greetings, Darwin's theory of evolution as I understand it, maintains that random genetic mutations occur, some of which prove to be advantageous in relation to species survival, in terms of the degree of adaptability applicable to a given environment. The major area of concern here it seems to me is the degree of intentionality - that is, of purpose, creativity, intelligence that may or may not be involved, as well as the interaction of environment, behavior and genetics. Another important issue relates to whether the "Soul" exists, and (if so and above all), whether only people have them or also animals (i.e. Hindus say they do). Additionally, some say that only certain classes of people have them, while others classes are heathens or infidels or genetically inferior. However, none of this is relevant to Darwinian Evolution. Both "Evolution" and "God" are theories (among others) that are not mutually exclusive. Either may or may not exist, neither is provable, and either could have created the other (religion is considered by some to have been basic to the evolvement of the dominant political / economic class in many societies, if one accepts the principle of behavioral evolution). Since all of these things are largely based on faith, each to his own and that's that. Only the "True Believer" is really dangerous. This brings me to consider the issue of Jeff's suggestion to invite the Avery's et. al. to a debate, and the wishful view that they don't deserve the attention and that maybe they will go away or at least become diminished if ignored. I thought the suggestion for a public debate was good, contingent on who's doing the debating on the opposing end, how well prepared they are intellectually and experientially and of course, that the counterpart accepts the debate. If not done well, it would be counterproductive. If done well, it could provide an impetus toward reversing public opinion, because ex-secretary Avery's letter received ample news coverage and was in fact, widely discussed in this forum (which is not fully congruent with the "ignore him" theory). In fact, I myself was chagrined to find, several months after sanet probed the depths of it's significance, the gd (assuming g exists) letter translated into Spanish and published in Excelsior, one of the principle Mexico City newspapers and widely distributed at the national level. So the sad fact of the matter is that these "things" (to use a neutral word), unfortunately affect the people who read them, because most people simply lack the kind of background that most or all of you (out there) do. (Shortly after Excelsior published the translation, in June I believe, I had to leave Jalisco again and am only just getting CeDeCoR's Southeast headquarters setup with everything needed - or I would have answered it). Therefore, the need to counterbalance these kinds of "opinions", and even to call attention to the commitments and history of those who hold them, is NEEDED in a public forum (as I said, if done properly and assuming they would accept - and they might just have the ego to do that). I have observed an incredibly obvious (hard to believe) negative trend in certain aspects of public policy relating to sustainable agriculture (although admittedly, there have also been a number of positive developments) that can only be explained in terms of what to me are the wrong priorities and the wrong allegiances, which strongly implies (or demonstrates) a sellout to vested interests that run counter to the public good, which never the less (evidently) wield considerable (too much) power. To me, only this scenario can explain why things are as they are. This is observable (to give a few examples), in the conflict occurring within the World Economic Development Organization regarding claims from the U.S. Govt. against the European Union, for not accepting GMOs' in certain foods exported by the U.S. Incredibly, the burden of providing proof of harm is placed upon the target, rather than the perpetrator having to demonstrate the contrary, for something without precedent in nature, in terms of context - that is, in terms of evolution. (Here we can say evolution). Another example is shown by who is (or has been, like Avery) highly placed in the U.S. Federal Bureaucracy in critical areas related to creating Agricultural Policy (some of whom participate in this forum) and others who no longer have the opportunity to provide their proven and positive input (some of whom also participate in this forum), along with the reasons and the results, of that. I am forced to be a bit esoteric regarding this matter, and can certainly appreciate the reprimand recently given against flaming the Avery's in a personal rather policy oriented way on this forum. There ARE opposing forces involved and it's very important (an understatement) that the "right" forces win. Since this is a very serious matter, it obligates the "good guys" - those whose sympathies are in the right place, who are neither ignorant nor have sold out; to behave themselves in a manner that doesn't lend them well to unneeded (and misleading) criticism. In short, in order to change the current status quo, right strategy and right conduct is required, by all those who care. Because, dear readers, it can and will be done. (On earth as it is in heaven. Amen). But don't ever let up, and be sure it's done well. Douglas Hinds, Dir Gral. CeDeCoR, A.C. (Center for Rural and Community Development) Cordoba, Veracruz Tel: (intl. dial out code from your country) + 522 713 2888 (Direct) U.S. Voicemail (email linked) 630 300 0550 U.S. Fax Mailbox (email linked) 630 300 0555 dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 00:24:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02056 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19676 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:51:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19614 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:50:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.134] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:48:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:46:50 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <15949.991006@acnet.net> To: Ronald Nigh CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Technology, business or lifeway? In-reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991006183822.0072d7bc@mail.internet.com.mx> References: <3.0.1.32.19991006183822.0072d7bc@mail.internet.com.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3037 Hi Ron, You wrote: >Farming is mainly managing a business, hmmm, well...that is part of >farming. I think Dale meant administration, rather than business, and administration is more akin to management. >The problem is, of course, our current crop advisors, even those >paid with public money, are essentially furthering the agendas of >chemical and seed companies, not those of farmers and consumers. I assume you are talking about things here where we are, and would add that most projects I've seen are designed to provide benefits for the organizers of the projects, the project's group leaders (not the same), the technical staff, the bureaucrats, the providers of agrochemicals and the brokers; with practically no one involved that so much as understands what it is that the farmers require, in order to assure that something will be left over for them after all these cash in. In order to change that, 3 principle factors come into play. The first is the values you describe, the second is market strategy and the third, without a doubt, is administration. Otherwise, it's just talk, politics as usual. >It is these advisors who are responsible for what Ann Clark describes: >Farmers, with apologies to those of you who are farmers, generally do >what they are told. Once again, no doubt you are talking about Mexico, where farmers were cultivated for their votes and became dependent on the paternalism that entailed. >Organic agriculture is about the defense of farming as a way of life. >If it were just about not poisoning our soil and food, it wouldn't >have caught the imagination of farmers. To me, the most regrettable aspect of organic agriculture is precisely it's separation from the rest of the system, even if admittedly, the system itself is on the wrong track. In any case, the way of life needs everyone else in there connected to it. >It is to real farmers, not to hippies, that we owe the fact that the >organic option lies open to us today. A lot of what were called hippies became organic farmers. Douglas Hinds CeDeCoR, A.C. (Center for Rural and Community Development) Cordoba, Veracruz 01 2 713 2888 within Mexico dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 04:08:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04204 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18295 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 03:45:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18206 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 03:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17311; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:44:40 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32232; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:45:00 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 7 Oct 99 09:37:56 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 7 Oct 99 09:37:11 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: WILSONDO@phibred.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:37:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Output Trait Yield Drag Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <164FBDA7171@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3038 hello dave, conventional corn typically contains 3.5 to 5,5 % oil, whereas high oil corn (HOC) can contain 7 percent or even more. i've seen studies from the univ. of illinois showing, that corn can have oil contents between 1.2 and 22%!! (dudley et al.; seventy generations of selection for oil and and protein in maize, pp. 181-211, madison, wisconsin, cssa in the top cross system, a portion of the field (about 10 percent ?) is planted with very high oil pollinators, while the rest is planted with male sterile hybrids. advantage: maize can be bred in a wide range of fao-numbers and the hybrids are tested in their fertile form for environmental influences. problem: the pollinators are low yielding, but offer a longer pollen shed than traditional hybrids, and they boost the oil in the rest of the plants. nevertheless i heard that a higher plant population than for normal corn is recommended to offset yield loss from the pollinators (let's assume 20% lower yields for the pollinators and 10% pollinator seeds in the seed bag : makes 2% = 20% of 10% total loss. every percent recommandation to seed more than usual minus this 1% must be considered a relative yield loss per plant. so: what is the recommendation?). that's why i think, they can at best be considered yield neutral (ignoring the price premium (dupont optimum grain wants its money ;-)). as far as i'm informed (information on HOC is bad in europe, because HOC's are not yet registered in whole europe), single crosses as pollinators will be an future option. While many test results show comparable HOC yields to regular corn, there are even industry officials, who say that the risk of slightly lower yields than normal corn, mainly the reflection of more risk at the pollination stage (dry weather conditions or rain). surely the oil content is variable, depending on growing conditions, soil types, and several other factors. are there any data available for this, which are not company secrets (i don't expect you to violate corporate identity, let's say something like a yield loss every 4th or 5th year) ? and when is the oil developed in the seed ? farmers here are often forced to harvest earlier than planned. how much loss of oil do the they have to expect per week? but that's not the problem i see. in the contrary there should be big advantages as a potential energy plant for industrial oil and in the far future as a gasoline substitute. HOC today it is mainly attractive because of its good feeding characteristics, rather than for it's oil, per se. that might change, the sum of oleic acids don't differ much in any case. you might be interested in the following homepage: - information on project "chemical-technical utilization of vegetable oils (CTVO-net)" of the FAIR-programm (fisheries, agriculture and agro-industrial research) from the european commission http://www.dainet.de/fnr/ctvo/index.htm (in english) what makes me sceptic, is the feeding value of the HOC. up to now it's mainly fed to chickens, pork and turkey. and all of these animals react with minor (meaning undesirable) meat, when fed with feed of high oil contents. ever seen chicken or pork meat when fed with high concentrations of fat or oil ? the meat becomes "oily" (you are what you eat ;-))). some weeks ago i talked to 2 farmers, who produce bacon slices and they told me, they could not sell their bacon, if fed with the usual amount of corn. instead they need to supplement with rye (which gives a very dense and tasty meat/bacon, better than wheat). the test is simple: take a blunt knife and try to cut the bacon. a good bacon can be cut with it, a fat and "oily" one will follow the knife, but you cannot cut it. the same with chicken meat. maybe mr. gunthrup, the feeding expert can give his view to that problem for porc. but evidently the american consumer accepts that meat, because in 1997 you grew more than 400.000 ha of HOC (no newer data available). here in europe we have a slowly growing trend away from meat without ANY fat to the more "marbled" meat, which is much tastier than the "dry" meat, but TOO MUCH of "marbling" is not accepted. and that "marble" meat can very well be produced with conventional corn. so although there is a profit in weight gain, this might be neutralized by consumer demands. with fat cows you are forced to sell to manufacturers (here HOC should be a BIG advantage) but you will have problems in the fresh meat market (where you will be priced down). and a last problem: higher oil content always means a larger embryo in the seed, and that leads to more problems for seed multiplication and esp. grading and cleaning. do i have to be more careful when multiplying HOC ? do you see any of these problems or are they (at least the first one) foreign problems your european department will have to deal with alone ?) i'm aware, that a farmer - depending on his aims - can very welll decide himself, which corn to grow. and i'm aware, that it might be difficult for an american breeder to write about european conditions. what i want to say is, that the decision for growing HOC or conventional corn might more be influenced by consumers' demand than from agronomic decisions or yields. your opinion (and maybe research results) highly appreciated.... klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Oct 7 01:52:46 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03154 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA17767 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:25:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17611 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA05818; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18086; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:56:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.pointer X-Conference: panna.pointer From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Resource Pointer #222 To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 87 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3039 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Resource Pointer #222 October 6, 1999 For copies of the following resources, please contact the appropriate publishers or organizations directly. *Cultivating the Farm-City Connection* November 7-9, 1999, Berkeley, CA. 15th Annual Farm Conference sponsored by Center for Urban Education about Sustainable Agriculture (CUESA), Community Alliance with Family Farmers (CAFF) and others. Includes workshops, seminars, short courses and tours designed to stimulate discussion about sustainable family farming, urban agriculture, farmers' markets and more. Registration US$90 before October 16, 1999; US$110 after October 16. For individual event, lodging, and meal prices, contact Farm Conference, P.O. Box 434, Stn A, Richmond, CA 94808; phone (510) 222-5091 *Planting Local Seeds, Renewing Local Communities* November 12- 14, 1999, Radisson Hotel, High Point, NC. 14th Annual Sustainable Agriculture Conference sponsored by Carolina Farm Stewardship Association. Brings together farmers, gardeners, researchers and activists to explore the theory and practice of integrating sustainable agriculture into communities. Includes events for children. For registration information contact Tony Kleese, CFSA Conference Coordinator, P.O. Box 448, Pittsboro, NC 27312; phone (919) 542- 2402; fax (919) 542-7401; email tkleese@aol.com; website http://www.carolinafarmstewards.org *National Organic Directory, 1999* Community Alliance with Family Farmers. Provides information on organic farms and related services. Focuses on U.S. farms with some information on other countries. Includes lists of farmers, wholesalers, retailers, farm suppliers, publications, commodities bought and sold, farm supplies and certification groups. Also includes short essays on exporting organic foods, certification and more, plus overview of individual states' organic laws. 372 pp. US$47.95. Contact Community Alliance with Family Farmers, P.O. Box 363, Davis, CA 95617-9900; phone (530) 756-8518 or (800) 852-3832; fax (530) 756-7857; email nod@caff.org; website http://www.caff.org *Organic Farming and Marketing Research: New Partnerships and Priorities, 1999* Mark Lipson and Todd Hamner, eds. Proceedings of October 1998 conference sponsored by Organic Farming Research Foundation, U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture. Focuses on current status and future prospects for organic agricultural research and education within USDA and elsewhere. Includes text of presentations on research needs from farm inspector's perspective; data needs of the organic industry; international issues pertaining to organic agriculture; and more. 62 pp. Free. Contact Organic Farming Research Foundation, P.O. Box 440, Santa Cruz, CA 95061; phone (831) 426-6606; fax (831) 426- 6670; email research@ofrf.org; website http://www.ofrf.org *Pesticide Use and its Impact on Crop Ecologies: Issues and Options, 1999* Tahir Hasnain. Focuses on effects of pesticides on Pakistan's crop ecologies. Reviews history of Pakistan's pesticide use, problems with overuse, and ways in which pesticides interfere with ecosystems. Includes case study of cotton production. Presents basics of integrated pest management (IPM) options. 73 pp. US$2 plus postage. Contact Sustainable Development Policy Institute, P.O. Box 2342, Islamabad, Pakistan; phone (92 51) 277146, 278134-36 or 270674-76; fax (92 51) 278135; website http://www.sdpi.org We encourage those interested in having resources listed in the PANUPS Resource Pointer to send review copies of publications, videos or other resources to our office. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 07:30:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05375 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:30:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA18665 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:33:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17945 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18116; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:32:44 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32710; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:33:27 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 7 Oct 99 10:26:22 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 7 Oct 99 10:25:37 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: mgs23@pacbell.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:25:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: "Evolution" deleted from KY school guidelines Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <165CA926C7A@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3040 hello misha, >How ironic that this comes across the very morning that > >`Evolution' deleted from Kentucky > school guidelines which is the final proof, that there's really no evolution in kentucky !! these strange creatonists, who are even able to date the creation of the earth back to about 6000 years ago (yep, they have the exact date and month! you ask them for the hour - their answer: don't be silly !!!) would not even cause a reaction in europe. people would simply turn away - yawning.... yes, there ARE real big differences between these two continents you would not expect and which are always surprising (see GMO food) when knowing their common history.. klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 07:31:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05388 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA22997 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:36:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22913 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18166; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:35:46 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA32649; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:23:34 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 7 Oct 99 10:16:29 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 7 Oct 99 10:16:13 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: mgs23@pacbell.net, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:16:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: science by numbers (was: avery's brother) Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <165A27E2191@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3041 hello misha, >The Averys have no original thoughts and nothing to say. They're >Southern showmen, like Rush Limbaugh. They'll say whatever it takes >to get noticed. well, today's "scientific business" makes it quite easy for them (and difficult for honest scientists chasing for real conditions to give advice, which can hardly be critisized). - Standard quoted number of Americans who die per year from food poisoning, drawn from 1994 scientific research based on a mathematical model, not actual cases: 9000 (actual researcher's number 8982) - Alternative numbers, sourced from similar scientific research at the same time: a) 522.7 b) 412 c) 64 d) 45345 e) 598 choose ANY !! chances are 17% you're right. - Number of trichinosis deaths assumed in 14's scientific mathematical model, per year: 2000 Actual number of trichinosis deaths reported to the CDC 1988-1998: 1 yesterday a collegue (our microbiologist) came back from a congress in austria (theme: illnesses caused by food). part his report: the head of the scientific advisory panel - he's known to be a really good scientist with a wide backgroudn) strongly voted (and succeeded) for not only testing enterobacter as standard, but also a lot of other organisms. so this proposal will pass their congress. but how surprised he was, when the french collague told him at the social meeting in the evening, that this same head of the panel owns the largest private analytical company in austria, which - surprise, surprise - specializes in microbiological analysis of food. which means: people in austria will get the impression, that there are a lot of extremely dangerous microorganisms in their food. and it is in the interest of the head of the consulting panel to strenghten that impression !!! and i'm sure: food intoxications will be on the rise, because everyone will run to the doctor (who will find some bacteria, he also would have found before, but the patient would never had consulted him, because he would have thought, the reason for his stomach pain resulted from the heavy drinking the evening before. now it'll be some bacteria probably causing cramps. and that will be a funded research, say for a large austrian microbiology lab. prozac anyone ?? and at last (life isn't so serious we often think it to be) another (non- agricultural) number: - estimated size of heaven, according to teleevangelist Billy Graham: 1500 cubic miles. klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 08:45:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06190 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:45:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06755 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:04:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06744 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:04:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 05:50:34 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 05:59:25 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, danamex@mail.internet.com.mx Subject: RE: "Evolution" deleted, reverting to spirituality -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3042 Thank you Ron, well said, I would go so far as to say that evolution is a spiritual force extant in the eco-sphere but dare I stir this pot any more. Again thank you for saying this and saying it so succinctly. Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:04:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06460 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19257 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:25:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19237 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:25:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03268 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d73.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.201]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23139 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003201bf10c1$6b1da260$c97a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Rumenants Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:42:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3043 Hi all, If the small garden marketer cannot have cattle(dairy or beef), is it possible that many of them could have a goat or two. Doesn't have to be a cow, just a rumanant. Right??? Match the rumenant with the land. Someone want to help me out with this? Also one other thing. Can anyone explain to me why it is that they don't recommend any meat scraps in the compost? Thanks, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:33:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06770 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09759 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:58:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09743 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:58:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 06:43:52 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 06:52:37 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de, mgs23@pacbell.net Subject: science by numbers (was: avery's brother) -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3044 Headline: Klaus knows the size(approximate) of heaven, Billy Gram told him! Klaus, you made my day, I'm banging my head on the keyboard! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:33:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06772 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06151 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:53:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mhub2.tc.umn.edu (IDENT:0@mhub2.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.42]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06080 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amethyst.tc.umn.edu by mhub2.tc.umn.edu with ESMTP for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:51:53 -0500 Received: from [134.84.43.56] by amethyst.tc.umn.edu for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:51:52 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Sheri C. Huerd" Subject: re: Bt corn transfer to actinomycetes Reply-To: Sheri C Huerd Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:49:39 X-Tick-Nemesis: Chairface Chippendale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3045 Hi-- RE: Bt corn transfer to actinomycetes was sent out by Lynne Carpenter-Boggs, not Sheri Huerd. my fault--she asked me to forward it to the group (she's not on this list serve, I sent her the original posting as it is in her line of expertise), and didn't put her name at the top. I have been forwarding all replies, but in case someone would like further contact with her, the email is Lynne_Carpenter-Boggs_at_ARS-MORRIS@mail.mrsars.usda.gov thanks, S. Huerd Sheri Huerd 411 Borlaug Hall 1991 Upper Buford Circle University of Minnesota St. Paul, MN 55108 612-625-1251 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:39:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06867 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18945 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:15:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18839 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04337 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.149] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:12:57 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:59:00 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <15332.991007@acnet.net> To: Rich Molini CC: Charles Benbrook , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, PatrickMadden@compuserve.com Subject: Re[2]: Inappropriate In-reply-To: <37FB3123.20DF@indy.net> References: <37FB3123.20DF@indy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3046 Hi Rich, While I can see your point, it's clear to me that Chuck too has a valid point of view. The difference between yours and his is best explained by the areas of responsibility in which one and the other has operated previously. You have had to survive in the face of an unfortunate degree of governmental collusion with "less than universal" (read big bucks) vested interests that also contaminate both the environment at large and the human organism, thus altering the quality of life. Charles Benbrook was head of the Board on Agriculture during the best years of the National Research Council of the American Academy of Science. All of us want a change of direction regarding the role of governmental policy and scientific research in favor of the public interest (which clearly includes environmental and health issues). While you may assume that the present situation of unjust favoritism in benefit of large agro-industrial corporations is inevitable, Chuck is aware that it all depends on policy decisions that at present are being taken by people who are less than ideal for the roles they now play, due to the interests they hold, their preparation, level of competence, values etc. However, in order for the right people, people whose interests are more universal, more human and environmentally oriented; it IS necessary to maintain our focus on the policies and not the people themselves. The changes that need need to occur can only be accomplished in that way, and they WILL occur. We can all help by focusing on the public and policy issues, leaving personal issues best left in the background. Where vested interests are involved, these can be brought out into the open, into public view; as can a pattern of policy decisions made by certain individuals and even families of individuals. But it's best to do that in a politically expedient (impersonal) way. However, I appreciate your sincerity. Relative to what Jeff Ishee proposed, I have been offline a few months and hadn't seen Jeff's post (I responded to Misha's), which I just read. I didn't know who Joel Salatin is nor Jeff Ishee (a radio talk show host in W. Virginia). I believe there IS a need for public debate, but that it should perhaps be carried out by other people on the sustainable side, and carried out in forums that are accessible to more people than Jeff's talk show. This probably won't happen, at least not in a direct way, but is happening in an indirect way every day on thousands of fronts and we're all involved. (in my opinion, Charles Benbrook WOULD be an appropriate person to debate with DENNIS Avery OR his son in a NATIONAL forum, but unfortunately this doesn't depend on Jeff Ishee or us - so it's just a comment. But you never know - perhaps someone reading this thread has a handle on that). Douglas Hinds, Dir. Gral. CeDeCoR, A.C. (Center for Rural and Community Development) Cordoba, Veracruz Tel: (intl. dial out code from your country) + 522 713 2888 (Direct) or 01 2 713 2888 within Mexico U.S. Voicemail (email linked) 630 300 0550 U.S. Fax Mailbox (email linked) 630 300 0555 dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From hhamilton@centerss.org Thu Oct 7 09:39:48 1999 Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06882 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16475; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:39:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: RE: Green Support Programs (fwd) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:37:12 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3047 RE: green support programs, I'd look to Europe, particularly the UK, Netherlands, Switzerland. There are lots of programs. I think that someone in the Countryside Commission in the UK did a survey or study. You might contact Andy Neale there: Andy.neale@countryside .gov.uk. You also might contact Joseph Racape in the French ministry of environment: RACAPE@mail3.imaginet.fr Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Lawrence F. London, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 10:41 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Green Support Programs (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:12:09 -0300 From: Geb Marett To: sustag@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: Green Support Programs Hello Sustainable Agriculture Newsgroup: I am a Masters student in Canada exploring several thesis topics, one of which is the concept of green support programs, under which farm income support would be provided in return for farmers' provision of environmental protection instead of traditional measures. Environmental measures might be identified through the completion of "whole farm plans", with which I have been working for the past several months in our province. I have reviewed two excellent publications from the Henry A. Wallace Insitute, but have been unable to locate much more on the subject. Though I am dealing with the concept in a Canadian (and Nova Scotian context), and USDA or American research would be invaluable to my work. Any ideas where to start in this respect?? Thanks for any responses To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:46:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06985 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16670 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:13:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us (infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us [204.73.64.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16565 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:12:57 -0400 (EDT) From: lcboggs@mail.mrsars.usda.gov Received: from mail.mrsars.usda.gov (mail.mrsars.usda.gov [199.5.254.100]) by infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA17761 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:11:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cc:Mail by mail.mrsars.usda.gov id AA939309189; Thu, 07 Oct 99 08:13:01 CST Date: Thu, 07 Oct 99 08:13:01 CST Message-Id: <9909079393.AA939309189@mail.mrsars.usda.gov> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FWD: gene transfer to bacteria & actinomycetes Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3048 OK- First, to Klaus Wiegand's questions: Are actinomycetes bacteria? This may be one of those lumper vs. splitter questions. Last time I looked actinomycetes were in the order Actinomecetales, distinct from the Eubacteria, or the "true bacteria," so they are in the same Class, but not Order, Family, etc. Yes they are usually "lumped" with bacteria, but to me and some others the actino's are physiologically distinct from 'true bacteria,' also evidenced by the fact that for some time the actino's were actually considered fungi. "New" DNA that is taken up by transformation is incorporated into the genome by recombination at a homologous site. If the new DNA is a strand, this means that an "old" strand is just replaced by new, and the total DNA stays the same. "New" DNA that is circular (normally plasmid DNA, or possibly a strand that has been joined at the ends by a ligase) can be inserted into the existing DNA to make a larger genome (or whole plasmids can be transferred to a new cell). For insertion of a plasmid into the chromosome, there still has to be some region of homology between the new and old DNA to allow their recombination, but this can be a very short region ~15 base pairs. Any added genetic material will require energy to replicate, translate, etc. Any recombined "new" gene must not replace another necessary gene to allow the organism to survive, and must give the receptor organism some new useful ability to give any advantage to that organism, or to keeping that gene. Microbes of course do not "know" what they are doing or taking in on an individual basis, the "logical" results come about through mass action: less capable individuals die and more competitive or resilient individuals live on and replicate. Now Roberto Verzola's questions: The forms of horizontal gene transfer are conjugation (by physical attachment, mostly G-'s but also some G+'s and probably many more than we know about), transformation (uptake of foreign, free-floating DNA), and transduction (transfer of DNA between viral hosts). Genes that are on plasmids are much more likely to be successfully transferred to another microbe, regardless of the mechanism, but genes on the chromosome can be moved into a plasmid by transposons or inaccurate recombination/excision. While genetic transfer between microbes with plasmids is fairly common, plants are not generally a source of DNA for bacteria because plants do not have plasmids, do not conjugate with microbes, and do not have the same viruses. Antibiotic resistance has spread so quickly because the genes responsible are often in transposon regions and/or plasmids. There are now many plasmids with multiple genes for resistance to different antibiotics, and all these genes and resistances can be transferred at once. The original genes, though, were still of microbial (mutation) origin. There is also tremendous pressure against pathogens that are NOT antibiotic resistant, so again the result is due to the transformed bacteria surviving and replicating while the originals die, not so much that all the bacteria suddenly acquire the resistance gene(s). Yes, there appears to be "junk" DNA, or at least material we haven't described a purpose for. Yes, this does argue against much cost to the organism for excess DNA, at least if it is not translated into unneeded proteins. Maybe this is just an argument of pro-GMO people that I internalized? Still, we are less worried about microbes picking up any ol' junk DNA, and more concerned it will acquire intact genes and the ability to produce toxins. If a gene is really active, it will cost the cell something to use it. I don't think anyone (well, any "unbiased" scientist) would claim it could not and never will happen, but the likelihood of gaining a new functional gene seems much greater if the source is another bacterium or actinomycete, not a plant. There is probably more risk of spreading Bt genes to lots of soil and phyllosphere microbes by inoculation with intact Bt bacteria than by introduction of the toxin gene to a plant. I am more concerned about the movement of this gene to other related plants and the deadly effects on nontarget insects. Lynne Carpenter-Boggs Soil Microbiologist USDA-ARS 803 Iowa Ave. Morris, MN 56267 320-589-3411 x141 FAX 320-589-3787 lcboggs@mail.mrsars.usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:46:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06989 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18260 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:14:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18204 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04328 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d73.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.201]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA38840 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006e01bf10c8$3ffcd0e0$c97a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Disease and Healthy Food Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:31:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3049 Hi all, Something has been nagging at me for quite sometime. When people say "There are more and more diseases all the time", is it because: a) we couldn't identify them before b) we truely are a sicker nation due to sicker foods. c) we are living longer so as we get older we are more prone to other disease d) previosly people were thought to die from "old age"(somewhat like answer in a.) e) we have more diseases because people would have died from some of the other more common diseases first. f) all the above. The reason I bring this up is in an earlier post, there was a question about the nutritional values in food, organic vs conventional. Is there any way of looking up statistics and comparing health since the introduction of the chemical world? I am lead to believe from earlier post and other inputs from othere people that one answer "f" is the best but that answer "b" is a huge contributor. Comments please? Thanks, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:47:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07013 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13342 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:07:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13303 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:07:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04230 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 06:52:56 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 07:01:19 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, ps@erinet.com Subject: Rumenants -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3050 Yes and no, nothing quite like a cow, have you looked into the Irish Dexter? There are also some indications from old timers that several species is better than just one... Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:47:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07022 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15008 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:11:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from steele.ohsu.edu (steele.ohsu.edu [137.53.1.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14958 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lippoldt@localhost) by steele.ohsu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA05531; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Debra Lippoldt To: gmarett@istar.ca cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Green Support Programs (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3051 Geb, I think this is relevant to your question. In Portland, OR our Bureau of Environmental Services (BES) purchased a 16 acre parcel that included a wetland and upland farm that had been farmed for over 100 years but had been unused for several years. BES purchased the land for floodplain and wetland protection. The farm is the last farm of its size in the city limits of Portland. About four years ago, BES "leased" the upland part of the property to two farmers who were operating a CSA. Part of the terms of the lease required that the farmers farm sustainably (organically) and provide public education on sustainable agriculture and natural resource protection in exchange for the opportunity to farm the land. Zenger Farm continues to be leased by Urban Bounty Farm, the CSA, and has a thriving CSA and education program as well,mostly reaching elementary and middle school students. Friends of Zenger Farm was formed this year and is working to extend the reach of this educational effort to include the broader community, develop high school education and involve the local residents. I can refer you to other folks for more info if interested. Good luck with your efforts. Deb Lippoldt On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:12:09 -0300 > From: Geb Marett > To: sustag@sunsite.unc.edu > Subject: Green Support Programs > > Hello Sustainable Agriculture Newsgroup: > > I am a Masters student in Canada exploring several thesis topics, one of > which is the concept of green support programs, under which farm income > support would be provided in return for farmers' provision of environmental > protection instead of traditional measures. Environmental measures might be > identified through the completion of "whole farm plans", with which I have > been working for the past several months in our province. I have reviewed > two excellent publications from the Henry A. Wallace Insitute, but have been > unable to locate much more on the subject. Though I am dealing with the > concept in a Canadian (and Nova Scotian context), and USDA or American > research would be invaluable to my work. Any ideas where to start in this > respect?? > > Thanks for any responses > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 09:47:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07014 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:15:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18927 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.149] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:13:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:10:24 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <8340.991007@acnet.net> To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'SHoughton@aol.com'" Subject: Re: North-south co-ops In-reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF68@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF68@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3052 Hi Dale, I appreciated your suggestion. >Why not form Northern Hemisphere/Southern Hemisphere organic grower >cooperatives. The International Tropical CSA initiative proposed a few months ago is now closer to becoming a reality, on this end. On the U.S. - Canada end - I've been out of touch and would certainly now like to pick up this thread again with any and all interested parties. In fact, one of the principle reasons for the move to Cordoba was access to the internet / email. It's at the entrance to the Papaloapan (as well as nearby other important southeast growing areas), where we continue to maintain activities, but with much better communications infrastructure, including a freeway system. There are more farmers involved here in the southeast than in western Mexico, where we continue to maintain activities. I have previously been in touch only from our Jalisco and Texas Border (Mission / McAllen / Reynosa) bases of Operation. Also, almost all agriculture in western Mexico depends on irrigation, which is not the case in southeast Mexico. On the other hand, the infrastructure is a better in the west and there are somewhat fewer agricultural pest & disease problems - which may make southeast Mexico a better lab and showcase for sustainable technology and practices. >Organic produce would come from the south during the >winter, to stoke up the northern organic grower/marketer, and >northern organic produce would go south to stoke up and support >southern hemisphere growers in their winter. Doing it cooperatively >with a reasonably large group would ameliorate shipping costs. You are right, but remember that the established market for organic produce in Latin America (Mexico is NOT in the southern hemisphere, of course; just far enough south to produce most tropical and many "off season products for more northern markets), is only incipient at present. That and the difference in purchase capability will mean that the flow will probably be somewhat one-sided at first, unless you count the resources going south in terms of investment, technology, machinery, packaging materials etc. Present imports in appreciable quantities include Apples, Pears and Grapes; so something COULD be done soon in those areas. (Where apples are concerned, each state requires certification for exporting their product to Mexico. Washington, Oregon, Idaho and I don't recall which others are currently certified to do this. Michigan had applied for certification some years ago and may have received theirs - I haven't checked recently. The same scenario may apply to pears - tree fruits in general are subject to stricter regulations on entering either the U.S. or Mexico - while grapes probably don't require this). Mexico is THE major importer of these U.S. crops, so the possibilities are real and I have the infrastructure on hand in the border town of McAllen TX required to realize the in/out (the term used to describe the change of trucks and paper/work required). For products coming from the Pacific West, I'm not far from having that in Nogales AZ, also. (Friends of mine do that there and I've had contact myself with the people we'd need involved). >I know this is logistically difficult, but where there is a will, and >a common culture (organic ag) there is probably a way, and the >internet could provide some of the infrastructure and planning. Dale Very true. Perhaps the time is near - let's keep working on this, and count on me to do what I can. Dale is clearly identifying solidly with organic agriculture and I think that's great. (Although I feel that all farmers are potentially organic, most have just received the wrong influences and information). Douglas Hinds, Dir. Gral. CeDeCoR, A.C. (Center for Rural and Community Development) Cordoba, Veracruz Tel: (intl. dial out code from your country) + 522 713 2888 (Direct) or 01 2 713 2888 within Mexico U.S. Voicemail (email linked) 630 300 0550 U.S. Fax Mailbox (email linked) 630 300 0555 dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 10:22:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07616 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:22:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25395 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:30:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25389 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by coyote.rain.org (Postfix, from userid 0) id B1E3761742; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B0E33E42; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:28:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Sal Schettino To: Ronald Nigh Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: "Evolution" deleted, reverting to spirituality In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991006201407.006df150@mail.internet.com.mx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA25390 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3053 If you want to think you mom was a monkey ok buy i see monkeys and I see man and in all my years here on earth monkeys have been monkeys and man has been man. I think it is a theory. On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Ronald Nigh wrote: > Dear SANET, > > Evolution is not a theory. It is a scientific description of how life > changes. (The 'theory of evolution' was Darwin's proposal of natural > selection as the principle mechanism of evolution.) There isn't anything > "unspiritual" about evolution (on the contrary), so you can go right on > being a Christian or a Buddhist or a Pagan and not worry about your kids > getting a good education in biology. But you better worry if they *don't* > learn biology because some bible thumper gets his or her 'theories' > confused with scriptures and imposes his or her ignorance on the public > school system. > > > > > Ronald Nigh > Dana, A.C. > Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas > Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) > danamex@mail.internet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > Sal Schettino,Organic Farmer,don't panic eat organic,sals@rain.org or check out my homepage: http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html . To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 10:26:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07688 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03824 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:41:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03794 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16475; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:39:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Subject: RE: Green Support Programs (fwd) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:37:12 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3054 RE: green support programs, I'd look to Europe, particularly the UK, Netherlands, Switzerland. There are lots of programs. I think that someone in the Countryside Commission in the UK did a survey or study. You might contact Andy Neale there: Andy.neale@countryside .gov.uk. You also might contact Joseph Racape in the French ministry of environment: RACAPE@mail3.imaginet.fr Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Lawrence F. London, Jr. Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 10:41 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Green Support Programs (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:12:09 -0300 From: Geb Marett To: sustag@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: Green Support Programs Hello Sustainable Agriculture Newsgroup: I am a Masters student in Canada exploring several thesis topics, one of which is the concept of green support programs, under which farm income support would be provided in return for farmers' provision of environmental protection instead of traditional measures. Environmental measures might be identified through the completion of "whole farm plans", with which I have been working for the past several months in our province. I have reviewed two excellent publications from the Henry A. Wallace Insitute, but have been unable to locate much more on the subject. Though I am dealing with the concept in a Canadian (and Nova Scotian context), and USDA or American research would be invaluable to my work. Any ideas where to start in this respect?? Thanks for any responses To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 10:33:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07874 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05243 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:46:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05226 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.132]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02711 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:39:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991007084343.007280c0@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:43:43 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: RE monkeys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id JAA05230 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3055 Sal writes: >If you want to think you mom was a monkey ok buy i see monkeys and I see >man and in all my years here on earth monkeys have been monkeys and man >has been man. I think it is a theory. > > But not all monkeys are alike and your mother isn't my mother, but we all , monkeys and mothers, started out from the place. Everything changes, nothing that has causes is permanent. The question is how. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 10:34:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07895 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06380 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:48:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06319 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:48:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA00705; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:14:11 GMT Message-ID: <37FC9CA1.E1A7FFEE@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:14:09 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Dennis Avery's brother? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3056 Misha said: "And speaking of, IMO Avery is like Jesse Ventura--simply not worth the attention, and appealing to the same part of the human psyche: the reactive, loud, macho, self-absorbed, and posturing, rather than the thoughtful, critical, contexted, committed, experiential, and aware. Avery pere describes himself as "a contrarian." Good boy, Dennis, you learned to yell NO when you were two. Now get on with life, and develop some more mature communication competencies. Like listening. Self-critique. Dialogue" I don't know who Avery (or his brother) is, nor do I know who Misha is. However I have always been suspicous of people who exemplify the old saw that "If you can't attack a person's argument, attack the person." Debating the subject is much more meaningful than casting dispersions on individuals. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 10:34:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07899 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14520 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:02:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14408 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:02:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0130B5D7@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:01:20 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 7 Oct 99 10:01:14 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 7 Oct 99 10:01:05 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:01:03 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Soil-borne bacteria, life on earth, organics In-reply-to: <199910061721.NAA13518@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3057 Hey, Jeff Ishee and others, Why doesn't someone set up a debate between the Avery camp and Misha? Joel Saletin seems like a great guy, but judging from what I read of his debate with Avery, he got a little tongue-tied and didn't have all the great come backs and hard-hitting facts on hand that Misha seems to so easily produce. Misha, you put so much time and effort into your amazing posts, I wonder if any of this gets out into the mainstream where people beyond the Sanet choir can read it? I can't imagine ever having command over so many facts and sources of information as you and I would pity the person who would challenge you to a debate on any topic. I'm glad that your mind is working in sustainable/organic agriculture... (And I'm serious about you being the next person to challenge the Agrochemicals Uber Alles group in public. Next time I read something by Avery in the Readers Digest, I hope it will be followed by something you wrote!) Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 10:36:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07938 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08543 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:55:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08534 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torrex2.theitgroup.com ([207.247.16.120]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05425 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by torrex2.theitgroup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <42C5W8QB>; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:53:34 -0700 Message-ID: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE494312@KNOXEX1> From: "Cole, Ralph" To: "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" , Sanet Subject: RE: Composting animal parts Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:56:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3058 Composting - I'm not "Mr. Compost", but we compost all of our offal and feathers from poultry and rabbit processing days. Composting poultry mortalities is a NRCS subsidized recommendation. Several states have booklets describing the procedures. Seems like I have seen precautions against placing fat in small (home-scale) compost bins, but don't recall the rationale. Grace to you. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Schmitmeyer [SMTP:ps@erinet.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 8:42 AM > To: Sanet > Subject: Rumenants > > Hi all, > If the small garden marketer cannot have cattle(dairy or beef), is it > possible that many of them could have a goat or two. Doesn't have to be a > cow, just a rumanant. > > Right??? > > Match the rumenant with the land. > Someone want to help me out with this? > > Also one other thing. Can anyone explain to me why it is that they don't > recommend any meat scraps in the compost? > > Thanks, > Paul > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 10:41:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08005 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12403 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:00:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12304 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id NAA00735; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:26:20 GMT Message-ID: <37FC9F7B.39BEA2BF@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:26:19 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: the organic landscape Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3059 E. Anne Clark said: 1. Vast proportions of the rural landscape are currently occupied by grain (I just made a trip to Minnesota, across Illinois, nuf said). Some 70-90% of our grain goes to feed livestock, much of which (but not all, granted) could be replaced with the grass that ruminant livestock evolved to eat in the first place. And she is probably quite right, we could feed our beef strictly on grass pastures. This is the problem though. Have you ever eaten grass fed beef, compared to grain fed (finished) beef? I have. As long as American consumers eat beef, and there is no shortage, they will demand grain fed. Through personal experience I know that it usually takes a minimum of 60 days on grain (90 is better) for steers to develop the necessary marbling for a good tasting, easy cutting steak. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 11:05:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08429 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22725 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:24:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22703 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0130BC68@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:22:40 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 7 Oct 99 10:22:34 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 7 Oct 99 10:22:11 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:22:08 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Avery Ventura (to Misha) In-reply-to: <199910062100.RAA15291@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3060 Misha wrote: > People who want tag-team can tune into WWF wrestling. And speaking > of, IMO Avery is like Jesse Ventura--simply not worth the attention, > and appealing to the same part of the human psyche: the reactive, > loud, macho, self-absorbed, and posturing, rather than the > thoughtful, critical, contexted, committed, experiential, and aware. > Avery pere describes himself as "a contrarian." Good boy, Dennis, you > learned to yell NO when you were two. Now get on with life, and > develop some more mature communication competencies. Like listening. > Self-critique. Dialogue. Ooops, and I just suggested that your formiddable mind be put in oppostition to Avery. I really do understand why you wouldn't want to waste your time with such a showman/charletan, but in some way, there needs to be a flow of information to the general public which counteracts the barrage of mis-information. I honestly did pick up a Readers Digest and saw an article of Avery's, and I thought it was much more damaging than having it show up in other sources because RD goes out to like the entire planet and reaches all manner of people, many of whom vote, and most of whom I would guess don't look up these sorts of facts even if they know how to use the internet. I'm sure there are plenty of well-meaning and reasonable people who enter this sort of stuff into their mental fact files as truth just because few of us have the time or inclination to personally research all the information out in the world (I even met an "organic" farmer here in GA who told me that he was not interested in using animal manures because everyone knows they lead to e-coli infections -- I guess he never heard of composting...). I meet plenty of educated, intelligent people in academia who take a lot of this crap for granted too (as "scientific" fact, if you will) and they require the kind of thorough, rational, referenced rebuttals that you give all the time on this list, but which my brain seems not wired to reproduce. I also don't see these sorts of rebuttals in main stream press/media either. So, even if you wouldn't want to face Avery per se, I still hope you will get out there were Joe Public can see/hear/read you and give some weight to the other side of some of the prevailing paradigms. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 11:09:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08487 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18873 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:13:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18865 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06005 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:11:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA00286 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FCAB07.4220AC28@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:15:36 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: science by numbers (was: avery's brother) References: <165A27E2191@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3061 A recent reference on food-poisonings: Mead, P. S., L. Slutsker, V. Dietz, L. F. McCaig, J. S. Bresee, P. M. Griffin and R. V. Tauxe 1999. Food-related illness and death in the United States. Emerging Infectious Diseases 5: 607-625. Basically Paul Mead at the CDC (who by the way says _he_ was one that Dennis Avery misquoted in "The Hidden Dangers in Organic food," American Outlook Fall'98: 17-22 {Which is what was reported by the Wall Street Journal, Dec. 8, 1998, and is online at www.hudson.org}) writes that 78 million cases of foodborne illness are estimated to occur each year in the US, with less than 9000 deaths occurring each year (as Klaus, I think) reported. (That's a 0.0115% chance, or 1 in 8667.) Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 11:15:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08640 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29643 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29633 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:32:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07810 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA23013 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:30:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:30:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: "Evolution" deleted, reverting to spirituality In-Reply-To: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE49430F@KNOXEX1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3062 On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Cole, Ralph wrote: > geology department of a large land grant university. But, oh, how ignorant > we are! The theory of evolution will always be just that - a theory - until > it is replaced by another popular attempt to explain our existence without > an understanding of God. How can we see beyond the boundary events of > creation and eternity from these mortal bodies?Remember how smart you Pie in the sky is not food on one's table. Well, they started a Usenet newsgroup for MacIlwane (sp?); should be able to get one going for creationism (I know, there has been one for years; perhaps a great place to air (npi) your views. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 11:24:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08829 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23161 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23142 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07646 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA17468 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:23:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:23:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Dennis Avery's Brother? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3063 On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Misha wrote: > Why would you want to leave the impression--in standing them up to > thoughtful, solid, and honest farmers--that they *do* have anything > to say? Why would you want to cheapen what the farmers have to say by > even making them engage with such a combination of unfounded nonsense > and outright distortions? Seems pretty simple; would you invite Rush Limbaugh, G. Gordon Liddy, Jesse Ventura, Jerry Springer or Jenny Jones to a debate? The Averys are no different from these evil, ignorant, greedy, non-caring, pompous people; they just have a larger lagoon of BS (PS or HS) to wallow in when it comes to discussing things agricultural. Let them eat our dust. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 11:39:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09276 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06351 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:53:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.a001.sprintmail.com (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06327 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP311.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.49]) by crow.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28131 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FCB4CA.CB3AACC2@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 10:57:14 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Technology, business or lifeway? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3064 OK, you guys have finally gone and done it. Enough talk about "hippies can't farm" and "real farmers." (By the way, I think Ann was being facetious when she said, " Organic yields reflect the initiative and experience of what, a few scattered hippies and farmer wanna-bees?") I guess I could be classed as a "hippy" by some definitions. However I didn't learn from a "real farmer." (Ron wrote: "No 'hippy' or 'farmer wanna-be' ever made it through the winter unless he was lucky enough to learn from a real farmer. And it is those real farmers who made organic agriculture...") My classroom was the garden and library. From these I learned to produce 8 times more food per unit of land than American agriculture. And I retain 60-70% of my gross sales as profit (my paycheck). Consequently, I "make it through the winter." So, it has been our traditional farmers, those who haven't been seduced by unbounded profits touted by banks, chemical companies and agricrats, along with "hippies" that, "...we owe the fact that the organic option lies open to us today." There is a population among us who, while not being "real farmers" have held on to our ethical standards and resist the temptation to justify our actions. Some sought organic farming as a way to live their beliefs rather than justifying their existence. The common denominator between traditional farmers and "hippies turned organic farmers" is the ethics. Growing food for others is a sacred trust. The exchange of nourishing food from the grower to the consumer should be a sacrament, not a commodity exchange. Herein lies the spirituality of farming. After that sermon, here's a joke for all of us to enjoy. (BTW, you can tell I'm not a preacher, because I delivered a sermon and then a joke and a preacher tells a joke and then delivers a sermon.) What's the definition of an organic farmer? An old hippy that can't keep a regular job. Also- Ron, you're right on target about the difference between management as it's used in business and industry and the way of life for farming. I would only add that the boundaries between lifeway/management/business/agriculture are blurred on the farm and are only separated by those who analyze farming. And thanks for sharing that quote from Wendell. Alex P.S. My spell check suggested "cannabis" for "wanna-bees"." Yikes! I must be a hippy! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 11:43:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09439 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13762 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:04:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13741 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crow.a001.sprintmail.com (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07303 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP311.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.49]) by crow.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06686; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FCB764.D49AA8EA@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:08:21 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Schmitmeyer CC: Sanet Subject: Re: Rumenants References: <003201bf10c1$6b1da260$c97a5acf@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3065 Paul, First we have to figure out who "they" are. "They" keep telling us to do and don't do things and we can't find them to ask our questions directly. This recommendation (not composting meat) comes from those who write about backyard composting. The rationale (as far as I can figure, since I haven't found "them" yet) is because, in a small backyard compost bin, the meat will smell like rotten meat and may offend close neighbors. It will also attract rodents, flies and other scavengers. This amy be deemed an "unhealthy act" by local Health Depts. About the oil in compost- This too will set up anaerobic conditions in a small pile and will have the same effect- Irate neighbors and a SWAT team from the Health Dept. Small amounts are fine, just don't empty a deep fat frier or your dump in your hog renderings. Alex Paul Schmitmeyer wrote: > Hi all, > If the small garden marketer cannot have cattle(dairy or beef), is it > possible that many of them could have a goat or two. Doesn't have to be a > cow, just a rumanant. > > Right??? > > Match the rumenant with the land. > Someone want to help me out with this? > > Also one other thing. Can anyone explain to me why it is that they don't > recommend any meat scraps in the compost? > > Thanks, > Paul > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 12:10:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09858 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26181 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:29:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26170 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP311.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.49]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28554 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FCBD0D.32548292@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:32:29 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Avery Ventura Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3066 Anita, You were right when you said, "I honestly did pick up a Readers Digest and saw an article of Avery's, and I thought it was much more damaging than having it show up in other sources because RD goes out to like the entire planet and reaches all manner of people, many of whom vote, and most of whom I would guess don't look up these sorts of facts even if they know how to use the internet. I'm sure there are plenty of well-meaning and reasonable people who enter this sort of stuff into their mental fact files as truth just because few of us have the time or inclination to personally research all the information out in the world." In my class last night, someone (an older adult) asked about using manure on food crops, since this causes contamination by e-coli. Just about all the students perked up and said, "Yeah!" indicating that they had heard this fact. But, thanks to all the info posted by sanetters, our hero, Superprofessor, was able to tell them about Mr. Avery and his misinformation campaign. I was also able to explain the connection between grain fed beef and e-coli. Thanks to all you out there who shared your info! And Misha- thanks for keeping us straight. I refer to the ancient advice, "Resist not evil." Organic has been attacked for the past 30 years that I've been practicing it. At first, we were defensive and tried to prove the validity of the system. We now need to ignore the detractors and spend our energies gettin' on wid bidness. But, Anita you do have a point there. Maybe what we need is for someone to write a book like Al Franken's "Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot..." Might I suggest, "Dennis Avery Is a Skinny Little Weasel..." by Anita Graff. Come on Anita, put that sense of humor and extraordinary intelligence to good use! Break out of that office and slay the mighty dragon! Dang, this super hero stuff is starting to get to me! Anita, forget what I just said! Remember, we all need to make it through the winter. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 12:21:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10118 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:21:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29409 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:37:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29329 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.49 (mx3-35.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.49]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA25836; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:35:48 -0500 Message-ID: <37FCC158.596@smallfarms.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 05:50:48 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re:Compositing animal parts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3067 Morning. I always thought not using animal parts in compost bins or piles had to do with attracting rats, mice and other rodents of the four legged variety. glenn Buy from the Farmer www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 12:24:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10183 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25146 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:25:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24930 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA15018; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:22:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-14.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.14) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma014988; Thu Oct 7 10:22:26 1999 Message-ID: <00ad01bf10d7$e9978e60$0ef86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , Subject: Re: Avery Ventura (to Misha) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:23:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3068 -----Original Message----- The below is sniped from Anita's message. I think she is right, false facts in a popular publication like Readers Digest is very dangerous. I think all of us are prone to read stuff and file it as "fact" simply because we read it somewhere. I know I am always saying "I read somewhere"(of course lately its I read on my e-mail list.......). I have had a few of my customers ask if we use manure on the garden, we have 25+ cows, 3 horses, a donkey, two ship, and 6 chickens, duh. But I reassure them that it get dumbed into the compost first. My husband sells firewood he is always getting the "standard" questions how long has it been seasoned, is it hardwood, he knows many have simply read the info and don't really understand the many variables in length of drying time(whole logs, cut and split, our open windy field etc.). He has to just say, yes its hardwood and it is perfectly dry and ready for cozy fires :). So I agree with Anita, it would be nice to see more sustainable ag. stuff in mainstream publications. Beth the above word ship should be sheep. I have no use of my mouse and have no idea how to get back into the text. I am getting good at other commands with keyboard only, yup the new tower is on order thank goodness. counteracts the barrage of mis-information. I honestly did pick up a Readers Digest and saw an article of Avery's, and I thought it was much more damaging than having it show up in other sources because RD goes out to like the entire planet and reaches all manner of people, many of whom vote, and most of whom I would guess don't look up these sorts of facts even if they know how to use the internet. I'm sure there are plenty of well-meaning and reasonable people who enter this sort of stuff into their mental fact files as truth just because few of us have the time or inclination to personally research all the information out in the world (I even met an "organic" farmer here in GA who told me that he was not interested in using animal manures because everyone knows they lead to e-coli infections -- I guess he never heard of composting...). I meet plenty of educated, intelligent people in academia who take a lot of this crap for granted too (as "scientific" fact, if you will) and they require the kind of thorough, rational, referenced rebuttals that you give all the time on this list, but which my brain seems not wired to reproduce. I also don't see these sorts of rebuttals in main stream press/media either. So, even if you wouldn't want to face Avery per se, I still hope you will get out there were Joe Public can see/hear/read you and give some weight to the other side of some of the prevailing paradigms. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 12:25:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10228 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04975 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:47:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04913 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.14] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:44:55 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:42:57 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <11446.991007@acnet.net> To: lcboggs@mail.mrsars.usda.gov CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re[2]: FWD: gene transfer to bacteria & actinomycetes In-reply-To: <9909079393.AA939309189@mail.mrsars.usda.gov> References: <9909079393.AA939309189@mail.mrsars.usda.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3069 Hi lcboggs, Congratulations and thanks for another great technical explanation. Regarding your conclusions: >I am more concerned about the movement of this gene to other related >plants and the deadly effects on nontarget insects. Right on target! Douglas Hinds CeDeCoR, A.C. (Center for Rural and Community Development) Cordoba, Veracruz dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 12:41:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10558 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09696 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:56:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09639 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:56:09 -0400 (EDT) From: lcboggs@mail.mrsars.usda.gov Received: from infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us (infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us [204.73.64.10]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08419 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:54:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.mrsars.usda.gov (mail.mrsars.usda.gov [199.5.254.100]) by infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA27589 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:54:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cc:Mail by mail.mrsars.usda.gov id AA939318997; Thu, 07 Oct 99 10:55:39 CST Date: Thu, 07 Oct 99 10:55:39 CST Message-Id: <9909079393.AA939318997@mail.mrsars.usda.gov> To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re[2]: Composting animal parts Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3070 Yes, composting livestock offal and even entire carcasses is legal in many states and is becoming more common as rendering plants decline in number and reliability and the number of carcasses becomes too many to bury in the "back 40". A couple of University of Minnesota Experiment Stations (Waseca, Morris, others?) are composting full-grown sheep, pigs, even cows. (Composting Animal Mortality Resource notebook available from WCROC 320-589-1711.) Fat and bones can take longer to decay than meat, but will still degrade and transform into usable compost in a couple of months. I think meat and fat are not recommended for home composting because the piles tend to be pretty small and do not get hot enough for long enough to kill potential pathogens. Lynne Carpenter-Boggs Soil Microbiologist USDA-ARS 803 Iowa Ave. Morris, MN 56267 320-589-3411 x141 FAX 320-589-3787 lcboggs@mail.mrsars.usda.gov ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Composting animal parts Author: ,"Cole, Ralph" at Internet Date: 10/7/1999 10:08 AM Composting - I'm not "Mr. Compost", but we compost all of our offal and feathers from poultry and rabbit processing days. Composting poultry mortalities is a NRCS subsidized recommendation. Several states have booklets describing the procedures. Seems like I have seen precautions against placing fat in small (home-scale) compost bins, but don't recall the rationale. Grace to you. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 12:58:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10974 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22023 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:19:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22008 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.49 (mx3-35.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.49]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA04918; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: <37FCCB53.2D93@smallfarms.com> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 06:33:23 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re:the organic landscape Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3071 Son of Richard and beef consumers, I beg to disagree with your comment on the taste of grass finished beef. Some people actually prefer the "taste." Like you, I don't. However, with small farmers and ranchers experimenting with forage, rotation and breeds of beef cattle, the problem will be eliminated. I expect that in the near future, "taste" and more neutral grass finished beef will both be available to our consumers. In my area, lamb has a reputation for having that wild, gamy taste which most people find highly objectionable. About two weeks ago, we delivered a lamb to a customer who let it be known that she was very, very fussy. To make matters worse, we found a few hours after delivery that the meat cutters had made a mistake with her cuts. We offered to take the lamb back. Kathy, my wife, just got a call from Ms. Fussy who said that the lamb was just what she was she was looking for. In our case, I suspect that our lamb is "neutral" tasting due to our breed of sheep. (Is this a possible research project for one of you closet farmers?) Where do live? I'll put some time into finding a small farmer/rancher for you. glenn Buy from the Farmer www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 13:06:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11094 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:06:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27253 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:33:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27149 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18899; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:31:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , Subject: RE: Avery Ventura (to Misha) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:29:20 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3072 Avery doesn't just get into Readers Digest, he also helps shape the curriculum for Ag in the Classroom. Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 13:22:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11468 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04136 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:43:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04045 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kirkwood.hoosier.net (IDENT:simmonsm@kirkwood.hoosier.net [206.106.64.12]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09330 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:41:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (simmonsm@localhost) by kirkwood.hoosier.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26436; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:31:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:31:36 -0500 (EST) From: "Dr. H. Michael Simmons" X-Sender: simmonsm@kirkwood.hoosier.net To: "Cole, Ralph" cc: "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" , Sanet Subject: RE: Composting animal parts In-Reply-To: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE494312@KNOXEX1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3073 The principal reason for not including fats in composting operations is that the fat will coat particles in the compost and inhibit the decomposition process. Michael ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ H. Michael Simmons, Ph.D. Director Community Garden Project Bloomington Parks and Recreation P.O. Box 848 Bloomington, IN 47402 (812)349-3737 FAX (812)349-3705 On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, Cole, Ralph wrote: > Composting - I'm not "Mr. Compost", but we compost all of our offal and > feathers from poultry and rabbit processing days. Composting poultry > mortalities is a NRCS subsidized recommendation. Several states have > booklets describing the procedures. Seems like I have seen precautions > against placing fat in small (home-scale) compost bins, but don't recall the > rationale. > > Grace to you. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Schmitmeyer [SMTP:ps@erinet.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 8:42 AM > > To: Sanet > > Subject: Rumenants > > > > Hi all, > > If the small garden marketer cannot have cattle(dairy or beef), is it > > possible that many of them could have a goat or two. Doesn't have to be a > > cow, just a rumanant. > > > > Right??? > > > > Match the rumenant with the land. > > Someone want to help me out with this? > > > > Also one other thing. Can anyone explain to me why it is that they don't > > recommend any meat scraps in the compost? > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 13:22:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11469 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04279 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:43:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04230 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18556 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FCDB2F.B1EDB6C0@uoguelph.ca> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:41:04 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: the organic landscape References: <37FC9F7B.39BEA2BF@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3074 Folks: mike richardson wrote: > This is the problem though. Have you ever eaten grass > fed beef, compared to grain fed (finished) beef? I have. As long as > American consumers eat beef, and there is no shortage, they will demand > grain fed. Through personal experience I know that it usually takes a > minimum of 60 days on grain (90 is better) for steers to develop the > necessary marbling for a good tasting, easy cutting steak. The flavor of meat is strongly affected by numerous variables, as noted by another respondant. What has historically been called "grass-fed" was actually much older, and grazed on much tougher "grass" than what is common in todays MiG operations. This has been discussed at length on another listserver, GRAZE-L, which is archived and accessible even if you are not on the list. I don't think that concerns about off-flavors in meat need to distract the discussion from the central point - namely, that grain-fed is only one way to produce a highly desireable product. Might add that rations heavy in grain are actually harmful to livestock, as I learned to my peril last year when I bought a load of Holstein bull calves for grazing. The calves had been on a "tenderlean" program (Ontario), which means largely grain. According to the vet, who treated them for me, this does damage to the liver, which manifests itself in various ways. In one calf, it was photosensitization. Not a pleasant sight. Grain-finishing of ruminant animals has a lot of implications, not all of which may be obvious to consumers - yet. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 13:27:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11643 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06464 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:50:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06444 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20984 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FCDCCB.44C6AB62@uoguelph.ca> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:47:55 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Technology, business or lifeway? References: <3.0.1.32.19991006183822.0072d7bc@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3075 Folks: Ron said: > In an uncharacteristic lapsus Ann says: > > >Conventional yields reflect billions of taxpayers dollars spent annually > to research and refine technologies in support of high yield, > capital-intensive, power-concentrating agriculture. Organic yields reflect > the initiative and experience of what, a few scattered hippies and farmer > wanna-bees? Like, come on man, - what if they *could* achieve as much per > acre as a real farmer? What would that say about all the glorious yield > >increases *we* have accomplished? Yeesh! Perhaps that is why researchers > who publish evidence that organic yields (or milk) are comparable to > conventional yields are subjected to such withering scorn, ridicule, and > abuse - from their own colleagues. > > > > Yes Ann, but here your apologies must go to organic farmers, around the > world. No "hippy" or "farmer wanna-be" ever made it through the winter > unless he was lucky enough to learn from a real farmer. And it is those > real farmers who made organic agriculture, through generations of "complex > responsibility and formal mastery", ie of farming as a lifeway. (They also > learn from "techies" and academics, in fact, would like to learn more.) > I have some difficulty believing that I need to say this, because I thought I'd stretched the analogy about as far as my terminal screen would let me, but I used the term hippies and farmer-wanna-bees facetiously, not literally. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 13:53:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12189 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:53:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18435 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:11:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18398 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27001 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FCE1D1.975A0522@uoguelph.ca> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 13:09:21 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Avery Ventura (to Misha) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3076 Hal, Misha, and others: Hal Hamilton wrote: > Avery doesn't just get into Readers Digest, he also helps shape the > curriculum for Ag in the Classroom. > Now, this is a worthwhile point. I am wholly in sympathy with Misha's earlier rejoinder, stating "why give Avery yet another platform" in the form of a debate with Salatin or someone else. If you are going to play this kind of game, you need to be clear that he is a master at using such fora to achieve his own ends and has vastly deeper pockets than we do. The issues are not objectively framed or discussed, making it impossible to "win" on any logical or clear-headed or factual basis - even by someone has articulate and knowledgeable as Misha. It is an unwinnable debate, if "winning" is actually the goal. I was willing to leave it at that, until I thought some about Hal's comment above. So, if we withdraw from exploring the possibility of a direct confrontation/debate/dialogue/whatever with people like Avery - because of the reasoning outlined above - how can we best address the issue of what goes into Readers Digestion (guess I'd better clarify, "that is a joke"), and worse, into school curricula? I am still unconvinced that public debates are an effective approach, but then, what is? Conventional ag has lobbied quite effectively to introduce their position, values, and practices into elementary school and up, at least in Canada and I would expect here as well. My son would bring home coupons for subsidized milk, fridge magnets, pencils, etc. and brochures - all courtesy of the Dairy Farmers of Ontario. There is an entire, institutional program for 5th or 6th grade kids to go "to the country" and learn about (conventional) agriculture in Ontario - crafted with the active involvement of mainstream ag organizations. I don't think that this is a bad idea, exposing urban kids to farm realities, but it is certainly one-sided - and we have been left out. Is there scope for adding our contribution to such programs? Should a separate initiative be undertaken? Should we be making and providing videos, interactive CD games, booklets, farm tours, or what - to schools regarding organic, ecological and/or sustainable farming? Other ideas? Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 14:23:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12719 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01756 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:39:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01742 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kathrynbert.iatp.org ([208.141.36.81]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 198 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:43:58 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991007125303.007dc900@mail.iatp.org> X-Sender: mrobles@mail.iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 12:53:03 -0500 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Marcos Robles" Subject: county tax incentives for wildlife Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3077 I am looking for examples of tax credit/relief programs offered at the county level to approved conservation/wildlife enhancement projects. I have already researched Minnesota state tax incentive programs including the Native Prairie Exemption Program, the Wetland Tax Exemption Program, the Minnesota Agriculture Preserve Program and the Green Acres Program. I am now looking for more local incentives. The information will be used in a resource document that will list different financial incentives available to Midwestern farmers for wildlife enhancement or biodiversity preservation on their land. I would be happy to share the information I collect with any interested parties. thanks, Marcos ****************** Marcos Robles Intern, Environment and Agriculture Program Institute of Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Avenue South Minneapolis,MN 55404 Work Phone: (612) 870-3422 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 14:29:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12802 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:29:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29395 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:32:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29345 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0130F3EC@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:25:46 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 7 Oct 99 13:25:41 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 7 Oct 99 13:25:15 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: "Hal Hamilton" Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 13:25:07 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Avery Ventura (to Misha) CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3078 > Avery doesn't just get into Readers Digest, he also helps shape the > curriculum for Ag in the Classroom. > > Hal Hamilton Hal, thanks for this good observation. I sure have a lot to say about ag curriculum in the classroom. I'd especially like to know just what is so public about the research done these days in the land-grant universities and whose agenda the funding public thinks is being served (uh, assuming people in the "funding public" think about these things...). I happen to be quite happy with the project I am fortunate to be working on at this university, but I know it is just an exception to the rule. And I find that rule quite worrisome (as should small farmers, ecologists, and anyone else interested in environmental and social justice...) Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 14:41:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13074 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14620 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:04:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14565 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09759 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:02:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FCEE15.E8BD9F13@uoguelph.ca> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 14:01:41 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: FWD: gene transfer to bacteria & actinomycetes References: <9909079393.AA939309189@mail.mrsars.usda.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3079 Lynn: many thanks for your helpful response. I would also encourage consideration of the issue of scale of exposure. The potential for functional gene transfer may be small, but if every cell in each of the 60,000 plants of corn growing on a hectare in each of the tens of millions of hectares of corn land sown each year contains target transgenes (potentially transmissible genes), then the risk must be substantially elevated in comparison with what we find in the lab. I would further profile the concern that target genes, whatever they are, may interact in novel and unpredictable ways if successfully (if inadvertantly) introduced into a new host genome by the processes of transformation, conjugation etc. which you discussed. The new gene products of these novel interactions, such as increased virulence of an antibiotic-resistant bug, may be far more troublesome ecologically, agronomically, and to human health, than what we would predict from the transgenic entity we originally set loose into the world. One need look no further than the Arabadopsis thaliana study we've discussed earlier on this list for evidence that this can really happen. To briefly recap, a mutated gene for herbicide resistance (taken from A. thaliana) when introduced back into unmutated plants of the same speccies, affected not just herbicide resistance (the target trait) but also increased % outcrossing . Outcrossing (in a formerly selfing plant) would of course greatly widen the opportunity for sexual transmission of transgenes to wild, weedy relatives. Issues such as this would never have been detected prior to release under the current so-called "environmental risk assessment" protocol used in either the US or Canada. Fortunately for us, this findings was detected in an experiment conducted by an independent researcher, who took the time to publish and report it. This particular example may be irrelevant to commercial application, but it should be a real big red flag to those who continue to support the profoundly simplistic principle of "substantial equivalence" as a basis for assessing ecological or human health risks of GE crops. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 16:24:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15067 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04650 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:37:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04643 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12902 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20292 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD03F4.2A6EEE57@uoguelph.ca> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:35:00 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sanet Subject: Re: Disease and Healthy Food References: <006e01bf10c8$3ffcd0e0$c97a5acf@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3080 Paul: if you want a phenomenally detailed and riveting explanation of why there are more and more diseases, read Laurie Garrett's book The Coming Plague. Very highly recommended. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 16:34:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15195 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 16:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10658 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:44:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10515 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <42TV99K6>; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:43:53 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: PRIVATE LAND CONSERVATION FORUM SERIES -- USDA Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:43:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3081 PRIVATE LAND CONSERVATION FORUM SERIES and NATIONAL CONSERVATION SUMMIT Overview Private landowners care for about 75 percent of America's lands and natural resources. A growing world population is placing increasing demands on these lands for production of food, fiber, timber, recreation, drinking water, and other benefits. The public demands that there be a call for new public policies to meet, successfully, the challenges of the next century. The Department of Agriculture (USDA) is organizing the Conservation Forum Series and the National Conservation Summit to help build a new conservation strategy that recognizes and values the important contributions of private lands conservation to our Nation's environmental health, natural resource sustainability, and a sound economy. Six regional Forums across the country will set the stage by identifying and assessing conservation issues and opportunities affecting America's private lands. The National Conservation Summit will focus the results of this dialogue to build the foundation for a new conservation strategy for the 21st Century. Locations and dates for these events are: Regional Forums: Portland, Oregon October 20, 1999 Denver, Colorado October 21, 1999 Sacramento, California October 22, 1999 Syracuse, New York October 26, 1999 Atlanta, Georgia October 27, 1999 Amarillo, Texas October 28, 1999 National Summit: Ames, Iowa December 14, 1999 See below for details about locations. For more information, contact Ann Carey (ann.carey@usda.gov) or Scott Hoag (scott.hoag@usda.gov) These sessions will raise public awareness of the value of private land conservation, highlight private landowners' tradition of stewardship of natural resources, and initiate a dialogue on national issues, such as: * Value of open and natural spaces, including farms, ranches, forests, and wetlands * Advantages of urban and rural community partnerships to achieve mutual conservation goals, especially at the urban/rural interface * Role of public and private investments in conservation of natural resources on private lands * Critical role of natural resource sustainability on private lands for the Nation's well being * Importance of the USDA conservation delivery system in promoting sound private land stewardship Panelists and Presenters: The Secretary of Agriculture, or his representative, will host each Forum and lead an open dialogue with six to eight panelists representing America's farmers and ranchers, forest landowners, small business owners, academia, agribusiness, environmental groups, and recognized subject matter experts. The audience will also have the opportunity to ask questions or provide brief comments. PRIVATE LAND CONSERVATION FORUM SERIES and NATIONAL CONSERVATION SUMMIT CONFERENCE SITE PORTLAND Wednesday, October 20 - Portland, Oregon Portland Airport Holiday Inn 8439 NE Columbia Boulevard Portland, Oregon DENVER Thursday, October 21 - Denver, Colorado Radisson-Denver, Stapleton Plaza 3333 Quebec Street Denver, Colorado SACRAMENTO Friday, October 22 - Sacramento, California Sacramento Grand Ballroom 629 J Street Sacramento, California SYRACUSE Tuesday, October 26 - Syracuse, New York Sheraton University Hotel 801 University Avenue Syracuse, New York ATLANTA Wednesday, October 27 - Atlanta, Georgia JW Marriott at Lenox 3300 Lenox Road, NE Atlanta, Georgia AMARILLO Thursday, October 28 - Amarillo, Texas Sunset Convention Center 3701 Plains Amarillo, Texas AMES Tuesday, December 14 - Ames, Iowa Scheman Continuing Education Bldg Iowa State University Ames, Iowa HOTEL ACCOMMODATIONS John Q Hammons Holiday Inn Portland Airport Hotel and Conference Center 8439 ME Columbia Boulevard, Portland, 97220 503/256-5000 Rate: $72 RESERVATION DEADLINE: October 1, 1999 Radisson Hotel Denver, Stapleton Plaza 3333 Quebec Street, Denver, 80207 303/329-2725 Rate: $80 RESERVATION DEADLINE: October 14, 1999 Hyatt Sacramento at Capital Park 1209 L Street, Sacramento, 95814 916/443-1234 Rate: $199 RESERVATION DEADLINE: October 7, 1999 Sheraton University Hotel and Conference Center 801 University Avenue, Syracuse, 13210-1720 315/475-3000 Rate: $89 single, $99 double RESERVATION DEADLINE: October 8, 1999 JW Marriott Hotel Lenox 3300 Lenox Road NE, Atlanta, 30326 404/262-3344 Rate: $80 RESERVATION DEADLINE: October 4, 1999 Ambassador Hotel 3100 I-40 West, Amarillo, 79102 806/358-6161 Rate: $50 RESERVATION DEADLINE: October 7, 1999 Ames - Holiday Inn Gateway Center US 30 and Iowa State Center, Ames, 50010 515/292-8600 Rate: $69 RESERVATION DEADLINE: November 22 Des Moines - Des Moines Marriott - Downtown 700 Grand Ave, Des Moines 515/245-5500 Rate: $72 RESERVATION DEADLINE: November 1 - ask for Government Rate, no room block For more information, contact Ann Carey (ann.carey@usda.gov) or Scott Hoag (scott.hoag@usda.gov) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Oct 7 19:48:59 1999 -0400 Received: from torrex1.theitgroup.com (itcrp.com [207.247.16.114]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19645 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by torrex1.theitgroup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <4KDHYN0G>; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 10:59:53 -0700 Message-ID: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE49431A@KNOXEX1> From: "Cole, Ralph" To: "'Ronald Nigh'" , "'dmhinds@acnet.net'" , "'WIEGAND@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de'" , "'TROGERS@ars.usda.gov'" , "'sals@rain.org'" , "'london@metalab.unc.edu'" , "'mgs23@pacbell.net'" Cc: "'a.doroszenko@cabi.org'" Subject: RE: "Evolution" deleted, reverting to questions Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 11:03:20 -0700 Return-Receipt-To: "Cole, Ralph" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3082 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ronald Nigh [SMTP:danamex@mail.internet.com.mx] > Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 9:14 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: "Evolution" deleted, reverting to spirituality > > Evolution is not a theory. [Cole, Ralph] Well, I be... What was the first organism documented to have changed sufficiently such that it couldn't breed back to the original stock? That is the criteria for defining a new species - unless the definitions have changed in the last ten years. Changes that still allow interbreeding are not "evolutionary". Seriously, I'd like to know. Otherwise, our scientific description of how life > changes [Cole, Ralph] has no concrete evidence, and is then no fact but merely a hypothesis. Scientific descriptions ought to be derived from the scientific method, yes? This is off-list. Don't want to be interpreted as contentious. Thanks. Grace to you, Ralph From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 20:59:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20600 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:59:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00247 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:27:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web602.mail.yahoo.com (web602.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00172 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19991008002634.28096.rocketmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.81.106] by web602.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:26:33 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:26:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: sacred trust To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3083 Hello SANETeers, Alex McGregor posted the following and I want to reflect it back to the list one more time. IMHO the quote expresses eloquently how spirituality relates to agriculture. "Growing food for others is a sacred trust. The exchange of nourishing food from the grower to the consumer should be a sacrament, not a commodity exchange. Herein lies the spirituality of farming." Kate __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 20:59:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20605 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25559 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:16:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25546 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.26] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:14:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:09:24 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <11798.991007@acnet.net> To: "E. Ann Clark" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re[2]: Avery Ventura (to Misha) In-reply-To: <37FCE1D1.975A0522@uoguelph.ca> References: <37FCE1D1.975A0522@uoguelph.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3084 (long), Hi Ann, >Hal Hamilton wrote: >> Avery doesn't just get into Readers Digest, he also helps shape the >> curriculum for Ag in the Classroom. And Ann replied: >...Avery ... is a master at using such fora to achieve his own ends >and has vastly deeper pockets than we do. A little ingenuity and a lot of collaboration could go a long way. >The issues are not objectively framed or discussed, making it >impossible to "win" on any logical or clear-headed or factual basis - >even by someone has articulate and knowledgeable as Misha. >It is an unwinnable debate, if "winning" is actually the goal. How pessimistic. And quitters never prosper. In this case, an Avery would be invited to participate in a scenario he doesn't control, where he doesn't deal the hand. In fact, he has no patent on the tactic and while the goals are not the same as his, "winning" (over public opinion) certainly is part of what it takes. Therefore, the event will be planned in an advantageous way and the invitation made publically. Then, he will either walk into to it or he won't. But as I said in an earlier post, both his ego and his public image would make it hard for him to refuse, without losing face, and credence (market share, rating points). Any refusal on his part could be widely publicized. Misha is articulate and knowledgeable, creative and poetic, a hard worker and a born communicator; but Jeff Ishee proposed a TEAM event (I'm referring to the origin of this thread, not recommending that his radio talk show be the forum). Therefore - along with Misha, a strong public policy person, a strong technical and theoretical field consultant person, a strong market person, a strong statistics- research person and and a strong production farmer person would round it out. A public interest organizer and communicator person could also contribute in a positive way, if willing to well found his statements. (I named names in the first draft of this, but then took them off - for now). There is no way an event like that described could go wrong, regardless of the percentage of viewers (it's got to be on prime time, major channel TV - even PBS is a major channel, and there are symposiums and conferences on some of the intellectual cable channels). The idea is to light the fire, fan the controversy, get the issue out into the open and onto the public agenda. There will be a lot of follow up, and the participants will receive a LOT of invitations from the talk show hosts for further airing of the issue. >... if we withdraw from exploring the possibility of a direct >confrontation/debate/dialogue/whatever with people like Avery - >because of the reasoning outlined above - Wrong reasoning. There's no reason to withdraw. >how can we best address the issue of what goes into Readers Digest >... and ... into school curricula? I am still unconvinced that >public debates are an effective approach, but then, what is? Nothing is, if you don't do it. The public debates, the lobbying, the advertising, the grass roots mass movements; they are all part of what it takes to get the issue out there and attracting interest, support and participation. Of course you've got to have a worthy and coherent cause. But too many good artists were not so good at promoting their work and didn't attract need support - it takes both skills. And there are a lot of people involved in this issue. In SPITE of the unfavorable public policies instituted that favor large corporations (and this goes back a LONG way in the U.S.), the alternative agriculture industry keeps growing at a pace far above that of the conventional one. The only real danger is that is be co-opted, and this won't happen. (Not that the effort isn't being made to do that, though). The table DOES need to be leveled, as the health and environmental consequences are being foisted onto an unsuspecting and innocent public, while the perpetrators are subsidized. >Conventional ag has lobbied quite effectively to introduce their >position, values, and practices into elementary school and up, at >least in Canada and I would expect here as well. My son would bring >home coupons for subsidized milk, fridge magnets, pencils, etc. and >brochures - all courtesy of the Dairy Farmers of Ontario. There is >an entire, institutional program for 5th or 6th grade kids to go "to >the country" and learn about (conventional) agriculture in Ontario - >crafted with the active involvement of mainstream ag organizations. This and more can and should be repeated within the sustainable ag movement. Surely, it's already being done, on some scale. (Remember that I'm mostly out of the U.S.). If not, it's an abdication, a loss by forfeit. There's no doubt that both the industry and public consciousness have evolved to the point that it's either happening or about to happen, waiting for the right people to do it. WF, WO, UF, ToL, AO - the list of big organic food wholesalers and retail distributors is already impressive. Add in the hundreds of thousands that responded to the OFPA Organic Rules issues, and it's clear that the power is already there. (Dolphin free tuna would never have happened if it weren't for the grass roots mass movement that forced even the big canneries to jump on the wagon). The potential for funding the above is out there. Even all the big chains carry organic lines or have an organic section. >I don't think that this is a bad idea, exposing urban kids to farm >realities, but it is certainly one-sided - and we have been left out. Don't wait for an invitation. The opportunity is there. >Is there scope for adding our contribution to such programs? Do birds sing? >Should a separate initiative be undertaken? Should we be making and >providing videos, interactive CD games, booklets, farm tours, or what >- to schools regarding organic, ecological and/or sustainable farming? Not if organic, ecological and/or sustainable farming can't compete. But that isn't the case. >Other ideas? Ann Just one: Why wait? Douglas Hinds CeDeCoR, A.C. (Center for Rural and Community Development) Cordoba, Veracruz Tel: (intl. dial out code from your country) + 522 713 2888 (Direct) or 01 2 713 2888 within Mexico U.S. Voicemail (email linked) 630 300 0550 U.S. Fax Mailbox (email linked) 630 300 0555 dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 21:11:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20852 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06276 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06199 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20269 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id UAA22356 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:31:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:31:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Alternative Nobel Prize Goes to Cuban Group Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3085 From: Peter Rosset Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture Subject: Alternative Nobel prize to organic farming group Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 14:32:53 -0800 Organization: Food First PRESS RELEASE October 6, 1999 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: ANURADHA MITTAL (510) 654-4400 (x108) Alternative Nobel Prize Goes to Cuban Group Promoting the Organic Revolution STOCKHOLM and OAKLAND: The Grupo de Agricultura Organica (GAO), the Cuban organic farming association, which has been at the forefront of the country's transition from industrial to organic agriculture, was named as winner of a major international prize--the Right Livelihood Award--commonly known as the 'Alternative Nobel Prize.' The Grupo de Agricultura Organica is one of four winners of the 1999 Right Livelihood Award, chosen from more than 80 candidates from 40 countries. GAO brings together farmers, farm managers, field experts, researchers, and government officials to develop and promote organic farming methods. Its aim is to convince Cuban farmers and policy-makers that the country's previous high-input farming model was too import-dependent and environmentally damaging to be sustainable, and that the organic alternative has the potential to achieve equally good yields. "This award is truely an honor for Cuba, for GAO, and for all the farmers, researchers, and policy makers who have struggled to make organic farming work in Cuba," said Dr. Fernado Funes-Aguilar, President of GAO. "We hope that our efforts will demonstrate to other countries that conventional chemically-dependent agriculture is not the only way to feed a country." During the 1990s Cuba overcame a severe food shortage caused by the collapse of its trade relations with the former Soviet-bloc and the on-going U.S. trade embargo. Self- reliant organic farming played a significant role in overcoming the crisis. GAO was founded in 1993 as the Asociacin Cubana de Agricultura Organica (ACAO), but recently changed its name when it was legally incorporated as part of the cuban Association of Agricultural and Forest Technicians (ACTAF). Over the past five years it has built up an impressive program of lobbying, training courses, workshops, documentation centers, demonstration farms, and exchange visits for farmers, and has held three international conferences. "I hope this award will awaken the world to the amazing achievements Cuba has made in organic farming and food security", said Martin Bourque, Sustainable Agriculture Program Director of Food First/The Institute for Food and Development Policy. "Through their hard work,innovation, and scientific excellence, GAO and the whole Cuban agricultural sector have demonstrated that low-input sustainable agriculture can work on a national scale." Food First has had a scientific and technical exchange program with GAO for several years, and will co-sponsor GAO's Fourth National Encounter on Organic Agriculture in May of the year 2000. GAO is the first Cuban winner of the Right Livelihood Award. It shares the prize money of SEK 1,800,000 (approximately USD 225,000) with a Colombian network, Consolidation of the Amazon Region (COAMA), working for indigenous rights and biodiversity, and with Chilean-Spanish lawyer Juan Garces, who is honored for his untiring efforts over many years to bring the former Chilean dictator, General Pinochet, to justice. One of the world's leading promoters of solar energy, Hermann Scheer, receives an honorary award. The prizes will be presented at a ceremony in the Swedish Parliament on December 9, the day before the conventional Nobel Prizes. Founded in 1980, the Right Livelihood Award has honored more than 80 outstanding individuals and organizations for work contributing to a better future for the world. Peter Rosset, executive director of Food First, said: "This award shows the enormous potential of sustainable agriculture, which is so underexploited in other countries. The whole world should learn from Cuba." Dr. Rosset went on to say that "in Cuba, organic is for everyone, not just for those who can afford it." For more information on GAO or Food First, you can contact Food First staff members who are available for comment, and access the following website: http://www.foodfirst.org/progs/global/cuba Grupo de Agricultura Orgnica (GAO) Tulipn 1011 e/Loma y 47 Apdo. Postal 6236C Cdigo Postal 10600, Nuevo Vedado Ciudad de La Habana CUBA Phone: +53 7 845 387 Fax. +53 7 845 387 Email: actaf@minag.gov.cu Right Livelihood Award Administrative Office P.O. Box 15072 S-104 65 Stockholm SWEDEN Tel: +46 (0) 8 702 03 40 Fax: +46 (0) 8 702 03 38 E-Mail: info@rightlivelihood.se http://www.rightlivelihood.se Food First/The Institute for Food and Development Policy 398 60th Street Oakland, CA 94618 USA Phone: (510) 654-4400 Fax: (510) 654-4551 Email: foodfirst@foodfirst.org http://www.foodfirst.org ### Anuradha Mittal Policy Director Institute for Food and Development Policy - Food First 398 60th Street, Oakland, CA 94618 USA Phone: (510) 654-4400 Fax: (510) 654-4551 http://www.foodfirst.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 7 22:49:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22033 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14443 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:23:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from bean.epix.net (bean.epix.net [199.224.64.57]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14383 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-243ppp232.epix.net [205.238.243.232]) by bean.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999100101/PL) with ESMTP id WAA18858; Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FD5787.979D4C12@epix.net> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:31:36 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E. Ann Clark" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: effective education References: <37FCE1D1.975A0522@uoguelph.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3086 "E. Ann Clark" wrote: > Should we be making and providing videos, interactive CD games, > booklets, farm tours, or what - to schools regarding organic, ecological > and/or sustainable farming? Other ideas? Ann We definitley need to do a better job at "getting the message out". All of the above are great ideas. I would add: "field days" that are geared to farmers, researchers and the general public that focus on proven sustainable ag concepts and practises. This is what attracted me to sus. ag practises- seeing farmers and researchers who were doing it, and that it was more then just theory. That is why I hold a major field day every year and host tour groups and individuals from all over the planet. It gives them an opportunity to see for themselves how these sus. ag practises are done. All this talk about Avery, Ventura, Limbaugh and others, gets us nowhere. Rather, we need to go far beyond ideas, theories, and debates. Cultivating relationships and gaining respect with other farmers, researchers, the public, and those who hold influencial power in the ag realms will go a long way to promoting sustainable ag into the next millennium. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 07:14:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26678 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07850 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:25:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07782 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25312 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d20.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.148]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA95184 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:23:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000301bf1179$b8f8eea0$947a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Composting, reply to Michael and all! Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:41:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3087 Hi Michael and all Thanks for the explanation. Seems like it makes sense. By the way, how is your community co-op store going? Saw your web page in Feb. Very impressive! Thanks again to all, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 07:48:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26887 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05713 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:09:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05631 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:12:38 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.100] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A0E212BC01CC; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 06:09:22 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 11:07:25 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Hemp seizure (was Gov't Out of Control) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3088 On Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:01:37 -0400 (EDT), Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: >DETROIT, Michigan, September 30, 1999 (ENS) - The U.S. Drug >Enforcement Administration (DEA) has seized a tractor trailer of >sterilized Canadian hemp seed on its way to a large U.S. company that >has been selling hemp birdseed blends legally for years. Just back from a trip to Hungary, during which I was (in part) trying to track down information on the relationship between fertility regimes and fibre quality, so I cant resist comment. These DEA folks just don't know shiitake from Shinola when it comes to hemp. If they understood the plant at all they would be falling all overthemselves to get American farmers to grow it --- cannabis produces unbelievable quantities of highly wind-borne pollen. If you're producing sinsemilla, that is *very* bad news. If you're a doper growing some of the high-octane hybrids developed after the interdiction policies of the early '80s, it is also very bad news. Abundant pollen from very low THC plants could probably negate much of the last 20 years of breeding for THC in about three or four years. If you want to hurt the domestic dope industry, one of the best ways to do it would be large plantations of hemp upwind from favored dope production areas. Growing hemp in the Pacific could be a bit tricky, but you get the idea ..... (-: Next thing you know, they'll be coming after the beautiful hemp tablecloth I brought home with me. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 07:59:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26963 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20341 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:31:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20274 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:34:29 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.100] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A60110960168; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 06:31:13 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 11:29:17 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Fwd: Re: Organic and nutrition Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3089 On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:02:06 +0200, Klaus Wiegand wrote: >>I can't recall whether this has been addressed in this forum before >>or not...but an organic farmer I am working with recalls a federal >>study which found that organic food is superior in some nutrients >>to conventional food. > >there exist several studies in europe, which found differences in >nutrient content between conventional and organic food, some >nutrients are higher in conventional food (magnesium, mangan, >zinc), some are higher in organic food (dry matter [not a real >nutrient], sugars, calcium, phosphor and iron, several feeding >studies showed higher contents per d.m. in vitamins). One of the reasons results are all over the map is that when it comes to mineral nutrients, the vast majority of organic farmers do not take significantly better care of their soil than their conventional colleagues. Some do (pay more attention to mineral nutrients), and if their crops happen to be included in a study, organic comes out looking not too bad. Some conventional growers also do an excellent job looking after calcium, magnesium, micros, and so on. If *their* products are in the study, most organic will come off a poor second. At least 90% of the farms I have inspected for organic certification in the last eight seasons don't even know what what their mineral status is. At least half haven't done a soil test in four or more years. No more than 2 or 3% have any kind of a coherant mineral nutrient management plan that they actually follow. The problem has become substantially worse (not better) over the years, which I attribute to the increasing number of producers drawn into organic certification in an ultimately futile attempt to save their farm by capturing a premium at the same time they elimate all costs for fertilizers. It's rather unfortunate that even though organic agronomy has learnt a lot in the last 15 years, that knowledge is simply not being applied. Until it is, I suspect that organic vs. conventional comparisons will continue to be inconclusive. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 09:07:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27716 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00359 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:43:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00331 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0131A141@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 8:42:11 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 8 Oct 99 08:42:05 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 8 Oct 99 08:41:53 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:41:44 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: meat in compost In-reply-to: <199910071342.JAA04084@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3090 > Also one other thing. Can anyone explain to me why it is that they don't > recommend any meat scraps in the compost? Having personally seen just about everything except glass, metal, and plastic decompose in a compost pile (and on the biodynamic farm where I used to apprentice, there were occasionally whole road-kill deer put in the pile), I can only assume that meat is generally not recommended for composting because it is the safest recommendation in a world of novices. If not properly handled, meat in a compost pile can and will attract all manner of vermin. This is even more dangerous and offensive in an urban setting. Urban composters are also more likely to not really know what they're doing and to not be composting enough at anytime time to generate good temperatures for fast breakdown. And it's generally the urban compost programs that prohibit meat scraps in the compost. Anita PS. This post may have already been adequately answered, and if so, I appologize for repeating. I just can't seem to stay on top of all the Sanet postings! Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 10:27:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29054 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10630 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:56:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10532 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29439 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d20.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.148]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA52757 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005a01bf1197$4409f3a0$947a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Organic and Nutrition Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:13:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3091 Hi all, Even tho the conventional produce may be equal on paper, isn't the real difference in the chemicals not present in the organic food? Or if you talk to some people, the lack of what they refer to as negative energies. Thoughts? Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 10:27:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29063 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:27:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05362 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:46:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05311 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29273 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d20.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.148]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA49445 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005001bf1195$e8d90800$947a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: effective education: invitation Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:03:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3092 Hi all, This is an invitation to further what Steve calls "effective education." What I would like to ask is if any of you people, educators and non alike, would be interested in seeing how some farmers out here in the farming country are making it work. We are hopefully going to have Dr. Walter Goldstien out at our farm doing some consultation as well. I would try to schedule the meeting at the same time. There are some secrets to be learned from those who have been there for awhile. I know distance will be an issue for many though not all. I live in mid-west Ohio for any of you that are interested. Thanks, Paul ps: may try some other ideas for getting together some other time, possibly over the net. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 10:32:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29122 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13740 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:59:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13620 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29462 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA25593; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37FDF91F.60A1E1AE@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:01:03 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: glenn@smallfarms.com, Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: Additional Flood Effects--Animal deaths References: <37E78810.D757F106@unity.ncsu.edu> <37FD4BE5.1A62@smallfarms.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3093 Glenn wrote: > Dear Russ: > > There's been little news on the recovery from the flood since the > immediate effects were know. > > Will you tell us what you're hearing and reading about farmers and farms > in North Carolina? By us I mean sanet. It's news we all need to be > aware of. > > Thank for your original posting, > glenn > Buy from the Farmer > www.smallfarms.com Okay, news has been a bit sketchy, and assessments are slow coming in. Official NCDA assessments are lower than have been reported (in fact it is claimed that 500,000 hogs are dead, while NCDA says 28,000 are dead). Commodities affected (according to NCDA) are as follows: corn (370,000 acres destroyed) soybeans (over 1,000,000 acres destroyed) tobacco (80,000 acres affected) cotton (748,000 acres gone) peanuts (111,000 acres destroyed) Fruits and Vegetables (55,000 acres) Crop Total $522,290,187 Livestock Total $2,644,222 Farm Structure $263,436,000 Total $798,370,409 Most critically affected areas "Down-East" were underwater for more than a week, and some acreage is still submerged. Obviously, some land won't yet support a tractor. I'm not sure what kinds of support the farmers are receiving, but they need a lot of help! As a plant pathologist, I know that more damage will manifest itself into the next season. As waters recede, leaving drowned plants, those plants will be colonized by opportunistic diseases, and some disease structures will over-winter, creating problems for the next crop. the North Carolina Department of Agriculture has a webpage: http://www.agr.state.nc.us/ More Information is available there. The hurricane also affected several extension related activities, including a Soil Quality Workshop at one of the experimental stations, Carolina FarmShow, and the State Fair (which begins soon, and is an important agricultural exposition) will not see the same quality of entries. ----- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 11:27:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00150 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05775 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05673 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29317 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id KAA18662 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:46:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:46:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Monsanto & India (fwd) American Spectator Magazine needs information (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3094 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:24:04 +0500 From: Vandana Shiva To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Subject: Re: Monsanto & India (fwd) American Spectator Magazine needs information Please find enclosed the latest press release on Monsanto by RFSTE. Jafri <><> Farmer Protests against Monsanto during General Election in India Bellary (Karnataka) is the seat for the hottest electoral battle in the Indian General Election, the last election of the millennium, in the largest Democracy of the world. On 2nd September 1999, on the last day of campaigning, more than 500 farmers gathered not to rally either for the Congress (I) or the BJP but to protest at the District Collector's office and at the Cargill-Monsanto Seed Plant at the Sanganakallu taluk, in Bellary. The protests were orgnised as part of the 'Bija Satyagraha' movement and were led by Dr. Vandana Shiva of Navdanya and Mr. Lingaraj Patil, President of Karnataka Krishak Samaj. The protesters carried banners and shouted slogans saying "Monsanto: the Real Foreign Invader - Quit India", "Monsanto and Cargill the Real Videshi (foreigner) threats", "Monsanto the Biopirate of Neem, Cotton and Mustard", and "The Real Cargill War - the Hijack of Indian Agriculture by Videshi Corporation". The Bija Satyagraha Movement, started by 2500 groups around the country, represented at the Bellary protests by Navdanya and the Karnataka Krishak Samaj, wants to draw attention on the real Videshi invasion by Monsanto & Cargill. The Bija Satyagraha Movement is building the Swadeshi alternative of keeping the seed in farmers hands and keeping seeds free of patents, genetic engineering & MNC's control. Corporations like Cargill and Monsanto have already driven thousands of Indian farmers to suicide by selling costly seeds requiring costly chemicals prone to high rates of crop failures. More than seven farmers of Bellary district alone have committed suicide. These are the real issues threatening the survival of the India people. Ignoring these real economic threat, the Congress and BJP have reduced the Bellary Election to a "foreigner - native" issue focussing only on individual personalities in the election contest between the Congress President, Italian born Sonia Gandhi and BJP representative, Sushma Swaraj. Cargill is the biggest grain trader of the world. It is the main force behind the Agricultural Agreement of WTO and the opening of agricultural markets. Cargill has already entered the Indian market and is all set to hijack the Wheat, Corn and Soybean economy. Monsanto, the world's largest biotech company has invaded India. It now owns and controls Cargill seeds, MAHYCO, Rallis, EID Parry. The main Cargill seed plant, now owned by Monsanto is in Bellary. This plant was pulled down by angry farmers in 1992 because of the high rates of seed failure. Monsanto has taken over the biotech lab of our premier research institute, the Indian Institute of Science in Bangalore. Monsanto is also robbing all our Universities of our scientists. This is intellectual hijack and intellectual theft. Monsanto has also engaged in Biopiracy by patenting our cotton, mustard, neem and soyabean. Through patents on seeds it is trying to establish a totalitarian control over agriculture. Monsanto undertook illegal and hazardous trials of genetically engineered Bt. cotton. It has continued its trials in spite of the Supreme Court case. Scientific evidence proves that toxic Bt plants kill beneficial species such as butterflies, bees and beetles. Bt crops also accelerate evolution of resistance in pests and the evolution of 'super pests'. Pests are becoming resistant to pesticides leading to higher debts and higher crop failure. This will lead to more debts and more suicides and will wipe out both our biodiversity and our farmers. Monsanto is also trying to import gene guns and virulent genetically engineered plasmids for making and selling Terminator seeds, and other ecologically hazardous products. This is a gene war on our farms, against all species. Monsanto is also trying to control drinking water and convert the growing water scarcity into limitless profits. Seed famine and water famines are the most severe threats the majority of Indians are facing today. This is the real Vidheshi invasion and threat to India. However, no political party and no politicians are addressing these survival issues faced by Indian people. Because Monsanto poses a severe threat to Indian agriculture and Indian farmers, Indian citizens have been telling Monsanto to quit India, through the Monsanto Quit India campaign since Aug 9th 1998, Quit India Day. The Bija Satyagraha repeated this call during the Indian general election 1999 from Bellary, which is a citadel of corporate invasion into Indian agriculture. Bellary symbolizes the combined imperialist power of Cargill, the world's largest grain trader and Monsanto, the world's largest seed monopoly. We also want to draw attention to fact that both the BJP and Congress have colluded with foreign MNC's. They have allowed Monsanto and Cargill to enter Indian agriculture and rob us of our fundamental security - our food security. Both BJP and Congress joined hands to change Indian patent laws and allow Bio-pirates like Monsanto to have monopoly markets through patents for products derived from our neem, cotton and mustard etc. Gandhi defined Swadeshi as economic democracy. Our politicians are corrupting the content of this powerful word. The citizens of India will save "Swadeshi' from being trivialized into a call for xenophobia and narrow nationalism. The real Swadeshi call that the Bija Satyagraha movement gave from Bellary is: 1. "Monsanto Quit India" Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture 2. "Monsanto Stop the Hijack of Indian Seed and Water" 3. "No Patents on Life" - "No Patents on Seeds" The real Swadeshi test that the Bija Satyagraha movement is putting to every candidate is: 1. The next Government must scrap the new Patent Act 1999 and Stop the implementation of TRIPS. It must also takes step to revise and reform TRIPs by supporting the African Proposal to WTO to exclude life forms from patentability. 2. The next government must stop the dumping of subsidized imports of sugar, edible oil, pulses and other agricultural commodities. It must work to exclude food from the WTO Agreement on Agriculture on grounds of food security and survival Indian farmers. 3. The next elected government must stop the genetic engineering trials that threaten our farmers, our biodiversity and our food security. 4. The government must stop the import of the Gene Guns and genetically engineered plasmids by Monsanto. For Further Information please contact: Navdanya/ Research Foundation for Science, Technology and Ecology A - 60, Hauz Khas, New Delhi - 110 016 Tel: 011-6968 077, 6853 772, Fax: 011- 6856 795 Email: vshiva@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in Web: http://www.vshiva.org <><><><><> Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@worldnet.att.net http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech EcoLandTech -+|+- InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 12:09:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01068 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04841 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04740 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from the-ufos-asy-3.rutgers.edu (the-ufos-asy-3.rutgers.edu [128.6.249.3]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA00458 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:32:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: the-ufos-asy-3.rutgers.edu [128.6.249.3] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <37FE355E.419F@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 11:18:06 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: Suggestions for Sustainable Agriculture Videos Requested Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3095 Hello all, I make this request on behalf of the Cook Organic Garden Club at Rutgers University in NJ, USA We are seeking recommendations for videos to show at a garden club meeting or gathering. Cover cropping and rotation, soil building, structure of soils, seed-saving arts, garden plant reproduction, all about compost, how to close material cycles, life in the soil, companion planting to hide tasty crops from predators or planting to provide habitat for beneficial organisms; all would be appropriate topics. Other ideas? Should be relevant to organic gardening or small scale farming. "Sustainable" topics would be of great interest if that refers to materials and energy cycles but NOT if it is construed to refer to economics or policy. Need not be explicitly organic but ought not suggest that only through the largesse of the petro-companies can produce happen either. We are not big fans of glyphosate. Our membership may not be typical of garden clubs. About 80% are from the Ag. school and many are faculty, post-docs, or graduate students in Plant Sci., Environmental Sci., Bioresource Engineering, Toxicology, Entomology, Nutrition, etc. The general level of knowledge is pretty high, so the members are rather critical consumers of information and do not need or wish to be "informed" of simple stuff well known to anyone with a college level basic sciences background. That said, we are also not dry or dull people, and we are not looking for something with all the vitality of a lecture on chemical kinetics. We hope for something enjoyable and entertaining, just not so simplistic that it reminds us of elementary school propaganda coloring books. Any ideas? Can we rent, buy or borrow? I appreicate any and all suggestions. Loren Muldowney To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 12:33:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01379 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06401 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:41:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06344 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id PAA02863; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:06:53 GMT Message-ID: <37FE0888.57110B1C@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:06:48 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: disease & healthy foods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3096 Paul S. said: "When people say "There are more and more diseases all the time", is it because: a) we couldn't identify them before b) we truely are a sicker nation due to sicker foods. c) we are living longer so as we get older we are more prone to other disease d) previosly people were thought to die from "old age"(somewhat like answer in a.) e) we have more diseases because people would have died from some of the other more common diseases first. f) all the above." IMHO I don't hold much for (b), but I do agree with a,c,d,e. I would add one other - an incresingly expanding, therefore crowded, population makes available more hosts for diseases as well as more vectoring factors. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 12:37:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01411 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10658 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:55:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10648 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:55:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id PAA02879; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:21:13 GMT Message-ID: <37FE0BE8.674164C2@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:21:13 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Bt corn & monarch flutterbyes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3097 Saneteers - for your review and discussion: >From CTIC Partners, summer 1999: Item #1 (page 14) (exerpts) In a study relased by Cornell Univ., 44% of Monarch larvae died after being fed milweed leaves dusted with pollen from Bt corn. The study's results have been criticized because no precise measurements were made of the amount of Bt pollen fed to the larvae. Corn pollen is heavy; thus it usually moves less than nine feet. ....planting a milkweed refuge would do more to encourage Monarch butterflies than any other strategy. Sources: www.epaonline.com and notes from USDA Bt Insect Resistance Management Workshop Item #2 (pages 6-7) Soil organic matter cannot be increased significantly by addition of manure and use of conventional tillage. No-till on the other hand, can have dramatic effects on organic matter increases. Source: USDA NRCS soil Quality Institute Tech Note, www.statlab.iastate.edu/survey/SQI/pdf Item #3 (page 5) Bt corn vs non-Bt corn Contact Dan Towery towery@ctic.purdue.edu Item #4 (page 4) Strategies for preventing Bt resistant insects Contact Dan Towery (as above) Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Fri Oct 8 12:44:57 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01512 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04551; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:44:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA04468 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:44:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19991008165103.9526.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.138.121] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:51:03 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:51:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Employment Opportunities To: CSAlist , sanet Cc: patgray@thefoodproject.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3098 I am forwarding this on behalf of The Food Project, Inc Please direct any inquiries to Pat Gray --kirsten The Food Project, a nationally recognized youth and community development organization in Lincoln and Roxbury, Massachusetts has several employment opportunities. Urban Agriculture Production Manager will maintain 2 acres of land in Roxbury, MA, including the planning, growing, marketing, and distribution of produce for shelters for soup kitchens, and farmers' market. Facilitate volunteer work days and educate youth on sustainable agriculture practice. This is a full-time, full year position with health insurance. Salary $25,000/year. Must be able to start no later than January 1, 2000. Two Grower's Assistants are also needed to work at our 21 acre farm in Lincoln, MA. Should have high energy for and interest in sustainable agriculture and youth, as well as a commitment to teamwork. The Grower's Assistants will be an integral part of the growing, marketing, and distributing of produce to shelters, soup kitchens, CSA, and farmers' markets. This is a full time, temporary position from April- November, 2000.Worker's compensation; $350/week dependent on housing. To apply: Send resume and cover letter to The Food Project, P.O. Box 705, Lincoln, MA 01773 or e-mail us at outreach@thefoodproject.org. Position will be filled when desired candidate is found. Please call (781) 259-8621 or visit our website-www.thefoodproject.org. If you have specific questions about the status of your application, please contact Donna Dawson at (781) 259-8621, ext. 29. Pat Gray Co-Director The Food Project 10 Lewis Street / PO Box 705 Lincoln, MA 01773 (781) 259-8621 x15 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 12:49:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01567 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21116 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:14:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE2.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21099 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.253.44.36] (H1322.DIALUP.CORNELL.EDU [128.253.44.36]) by postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16408 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:12:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: emm19@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199910081449.KAA07526@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:11:14 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Ellen M. Morrison" Subject: Re: Monsanto and water Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3099 Hi I am a recent subscriber and have not checked the archives (so don't bash me if this is an old thread), but I have noted 2 comments in the past week about Monsanto trying to control/privatize water rights (one in the recent India & Monsanto letter). Could someone shed some illumination on this? Any concrete evidence? Thanks in advance. Emmy Ellen (Emmy) Morrison Biological Control of Non-Indigenous Plant Species Program Fernow Hall, Cornell University Ithaca NY 14853 (607) 275-3786 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 12:50:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01596 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16882 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:06:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16758 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:05:55 -0400 (EDT) From: flylo@txcyber.com Received: from flylo (ppp327.cy-net.net [208.21.195.136]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18253 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:04:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199910081604.LAA18253@portal.txcyber.com> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:35:22 -0500 Subject: goats (long) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3100 I'm looking back through the last weeks digest but someone mentioned having a ruminant, and a goat would be more desirable over a cow. Could someone clue me in on the thread? The topic of flavors in beef also caught my attention. We've butchered a 2 yr old heifer who just would not stay home. Jumped every fence in the county so the last time I caught her, I hauled her to the processor. Tough? Yes, of course, but tasty, not gamey or old, but similar to what the 'old time' beef was supposed to taste like. I didn't mind the extra cooking time since I knew I wasn't eating antibiotics and grass-fed herbicides along with my meat. Today we raise dairy goats and the wethers are sold for meat or put into our own freezer. Tough? Yes, but the old- beef flavor is there. (And this is from someone who can't stand the taste of mutton nor very little lamb.) Goat meat has the advantage over other red meats in being lower in fats and saturated fats than even chicken! See my chart: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/GoatChart.html Onward: Composting refuse from CAFO's (poultry houses especially). I think this is one of the scariest topics today. We're going to see a huge problem with the waste from these operations in the future. Already, the ground water surrounding many (in my area) is contaminated. Chicken litter, spilled feeds, dead chickens, everything is scraped out of the houses at the end of the feed cycle, usually every 7 weeks between batches. This stuff is either baled and compacted or turned into a slurry. Either way, it usually ends up back on the land as 'compost'. The antibiotics in the feeds (and now back in the soil) are mostly broken down, but residues do survive. I bought a load of hay for my horses and goats. Couldn't figure out why nothing would eat it so I went to the grower to see how the hay had been baled. He operates 8 broiler houses and said, well, the grass was irrigated and WELL fertilized. I don't know any labs that do the kind of tests I'd like to see, but I certainly would like to know the residues of 'fertilizer' from the chicken scrapings that transferred to the grass. Another scary scenario: I worked this past summer at a local Medical Center, rewriting their hospital procedure books. Many references to 'antibiotic-resistant strains'. The hospitals are blaming doctors for overprescribing antibiotics in general, but some background work revealed the patients who showed the diseases with the most resistance had recently consumed more poultry than normal. And on a lighter note: The meat in compost: Yes, it may take too long to break down, and 'coat' the rest of the compost but the real reason is that most folk who garden in town share a fenceline or two with someone else. If they put meat scraps in their compost, it has the potential of drawing flies and all the neighborhood strays. Since we live a mile from our neighbors, I have the luxury of being able to make a compost pile out of whatever I want and still don't like the idea of putting meat or fat or grease in my compost. I have enough trouble with coyotes and skunks, I don't need to bait them. (And yes I have BIG dogs, but the wildlife is either faster or smarter, probably both.) Martha, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 13:24:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02242 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06801 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:45:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06739 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19991008165103.9526.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.138.121] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:51:03 PDT Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:51:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Kirsten Saylor Subject: Employment Opportunities To: CSAlist , sanet Cc: patgray@thefoodproject.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3101 I am forwarding this on behalf of The Food Project, Inc Please direct any inquiries to Pat Gray --kirsten The Food Project, a nationally recognized youth and community development organization in Lincoln and Roxbury, Massachusetts has several employment opportunities. Urban Agriculture Production Manager will maintain 2 acres of land in Roxbury, MA, including the planning, growing, marketing, and distribution of produce for shelters for soup kitchens, and farmers' market. Facilitate volunteer work days and educate youth on sustainable agriculture practice. This is a full-time, full year position with health insurance. Salary $25,000/year. Must be able to start no later than January 1, 2000. Two Grower's Assistants are also needed to work at our 21 acre farm in Lincoln, MA. Should have high energy for and interest in sustainable agriculture and youth, as well as a commitment to teamwork. The Grower's Assistants will be an integral part of the growing, marketing, and distributing of produce to shelters, soup kitchens, CSA, and farmers' markets. This is a full time, temporary position from April- November, 2000.Worker's compensation; $350/week dependent on housing. To apply: Send resume and cover letter to The Food Project, P.O. Box 705, Lincoln, MA 01773 or e-mail us at outreach@thefoodproject.org. Position will be filled when desired candidate is found. Please call (781) 259-8621 or visit our website-www.thefoodproject.org. If you have specific questions about the status of your application, please contact Donna Dawson at (781) 259-8621, ext. 29. Pat Gray Co-Director The Food Project 10 Lewis Street / PO Box 705 Lincoln, MA 01773 (781) 259-8621 x15 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 14:09:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02946 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00904 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:30:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00882 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08891; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:57:00 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: Composting animals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3102 Howdy, all-- A note on the issue of composting animals. One of the other dangers with it--as we discussed in the avian botulism/limberneck thread--is that some pathogens are killed only at high heat, which the compost cycle does not produce. /Clostridium botulinum/, for instance, requires 250 degrees F. (remember that from when you were learning to can vegies? low-acid fruits go in the pressure cooker because of this....) to ensure killing the microbes. And unless the composted animal tissue were very carefully protected, the possibility of it serving as host to /C. botulinum/ and life forms that concentrate that would seem likely. Below, I've clipped and pasted some stuff from that earlier discussion as an example I think may apply in the present discussion. It applies to avian botulism, but I'd think the principle could be the same for other pathogens. Not to say that this composting CAN'T be done--just that I'd think there'd need to be a set of safe practices developed, and taught, in doing so. BTW, I think a distinction needs to be made about whether we're talking about composting as a waste-management method, or as a way of producing something to put back into the land/life cycles. I can't imagine composting animals for the latter use. Read on. In Wisconsin we had a vicious heat wave in the summer of '95, still referred to by some folks as The Summer of Exploding Cows. That summer, a dairy farmer friend in the coulee told me that a number of his neighbors who'd lost livestock were concerned because the offal truck couldn't keep up with the deaths. And when the temps are at 100+ for x days, you really don't want dead livestock hanging around the place. I remember seeing that, just driving through rural areas that summer--bloated livestock. Very painful. And also weirdly surreal. So, he said, some were staying quiet about their stock deaths, and reviving (he used that word; I don't know whether it was reviving, or creating) a technique for disposal--"pit composting." I said, you mean burial? He looked distressed and said, "I don't think it's the same, but I don't know how others might view it." He said it wasn't just plopping the animal in a hole in the ground, which is burial. The idea was to excavate a pit, thickly line the pit with and surround the animal snugly with compostable and compost-organism-containing residue--bedding, spoiled hay or silage, etc., top off the pit with that, then replenish it regularly as the pit-fill sank. I can't remember what he had to say about how to aerate the pit--posts or pipes would be the simplest solution. After some period of time (WHY didn't I take notes on this!?), the animal's tissue would be completely consumed, and the pit would be refilled with excavated soil. The resulting pit-fill would not be spread on crops/land for the reasons I mention above and below, but the disposal would happen organically (in the sense of within living cycles). In a conventional burial, there wouldn't be nearly as much microbial activity, in the subsoil, to consume the animal's tissue, as with this system, which aimed to build an soil-type aerobic composting cycle in the subsoil. That same summer or fall, I read Laurie Garrett's /The Coming Plague/ while flying to Madison from San Francisco. And I wondered whether this animal-disposal system, if widely adopted, wouldn't select for populations of soil-borne flesh-eating /Strep./ bacteria and other pathogens. It seems to invite them. Also, in the case of prions, composting would not break those down--even the heat of an autoclave can fail to destroy them. Neither of these are very pretty thoughts. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --U.S. Fish and Wildlife service info: http://www.emtc.nbs.gov/http_data/nwhc/factshts/avian.html The authors are at the National Wildlife Health Laboratory, in Madison. "Avian Botulism affects the nervous system, causing muscle paralysis. Depending on how far the disease has progressed, various levels of paralysis will be observed. An early sign in birds is the inability to fly. Once the ability to fly is lost and leg muscles become paralyzed, ducks suffering from botulism often propel themselves across the water and mud flats with their wings. This sequence of signs is in contrast to that of lead-poisoned birds, which have difficulty flying but remain able to walk and run. "Paralysis of the inner eyelid and neck muscles follows. These are the two most easily recognizable signs associated with avian botulism. The inability of the bird to hold its head erect is the reason this disease is called "limberneck." Frequently, birds will drown once they reach this stage in the disease. Those that do not drown will eventually die from respiratory failure as paralysis spreads. "Favorable environmental conditions occur in the tissues of decaying animal and insect carcasses. The decomposition process uses up all available oxygen in the carcass, creating anaerobic conditions. Bacterial spores ingested during the life of the animal germinate after death. As the bacteria multiply and die, the toxin is released. "The cycle of avian botulism "Outbreaks of avian botulism occur when the toxin is taken in by birds. The die-off may begin as birds feed directly on invertebrate carcasses that contain the toxin, or as a result of feeding on live maggots of flesh-flies and blowflies. Flies lay their eggs on dead vertebrates, and the resulting maggots store botulinal toxin in their bodies as they consume the carcass. More than 5,000 maggots can be produced by a single bird carcass; consumption of just two to five toxin-bearing maggots is often enough to kill a duck!" Note that the difference between this and Kate's situation is that the source of the botulinal toxin is dead vertebrates and invertebrates. Kate is decomposing/composting vegetables. Which is what I was thinking when I suggested laying the heap open to the air for city birds to pick at. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nature bats last, and Mitch Williams is pitching. --motto of the Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 15:00:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03833 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05551 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:29:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05497 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26886>; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:39:24 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: flylo@txcyber.com cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Oct8.133924cdt.26886@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:27:59 -0500 Subject: Re: goat meat Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3103 Flylo said: Goat meat has the advantage over other red meats in being lower in fats and saturated fats than even chicken... Pat counters: It is simply a myth that somehow white meat is "leaner" or "healthier" than red meat. The colour of the meat is merely pigment- like the difference in skin colour of people- & has no bearing on the nutrient content of the animal any more that human skin colour has any bearing on the character of the person. I also noticed the data in chart on your website was from 1989- a bit ancient eh? Agriculture & Food Canada found in 1994 that inside roundsteak, pork tenderloin & skinless chicken breast all had about 3gr of fat per 90gr (3oz) serving. All were broiled without marinade. Tastier cuts like chicken thigh (skinless), sirloin & pork loin chop have about 5gr when prepared like the above. Beef rump roast & pork shoulder have about 7-8gr. Thats high, but it beats canned salmon with 9gr. When you leave the skin on the drumstick & fry it, you get up to 15gr, which just about compares with pork spareribs (18). All of the above are better than the Canadian national dish- Packaged macaroni & cheese with 22gr. I wont say how much is in peanut butter (I went 'dipping' last nite myself)! At the molecular level, muscle tissue is pretty similar stuff whether it comes from hoofed animal, bird or fish. The breed, the particular cut of meat & most important, the way the animal was fed make all the difference in the fat content. The colour of the meat is basically unimportant. What's happened in the last 20 years, is that beef & pork producers have vigorously bred their herds for leanness. In Canada as well, the producer is only paid for lean meat (carcass wgt x lean index x sales price) so there is extra incentive to only breed & feed animals to produce lean meat. Back to lurking mode... To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 17:03:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05804 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27021 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:43:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27016 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:42:57 -0400 (EDT) From: flylo@txcyber.com Received: from flylo (ppp330.cy-net.net [208.21.195.139]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31414; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:41:16 -0500 Message-Id: <199910082041.PAA31414@portal.txcyber.com> To: "Pat Elazar" Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:08:20 -0500 Subject: Re: goat meat CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: <99Oct8.133924cdt.26886@mint.cwb.ca> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3104 Pat: (and Charlie): Thanks for replying to my post! I realize that broken down to the molecular level, meat certainly is going to have the same components. However, I've never been to the store and noticed the meat displays all heaped together under signs "It's just molecules anyway." People respond to what they have had ingrained into them. Fat, saturated fat, calories are 'bad', so even our doctors say to find foods with low ones. (Poultry, fish). The reference to red meat is mainly because most people who watch their intake have (often reluctantly) given up red meat. And, the reference to the dated chart on my page, even your more recent quotes you stated 'about 3grams' in all meats. (Goat is still lower.) I realize most people don't have access to a lot of goat in their market choices. The goat (or chevon) I've seen at the store is some criopak horror I wouldn't even know what to do with should I actually buy it. BUT, anyone with a few acres and a lenient zoning board can raise their own milk and some of their meat. An 8 month old wether will usually weigh between 85 and 90 pounds, dress out to around half of that. I don't think that's too bad an exchange for some milk and yard trimmings. I'm actually more concerned with avoiding foods that have an intensive grow method. Any animal (chicken) that's table ready in 7 weeks, (SEVEN WEEKS, a tomato takes longer!) has had things done to it from birth on up that we need to take into consideration when we eat it. They've been genetically engineered (there's that term again) to grow at remarkable rates, but almost impossible to do on feeds without antibiotics. (Backpedaling a little here, I said 'almost' because there are some who are doing it with organic feeds, I've been told.) Maybe it's time to add another 'value' to our food value charts, a column that lists amounts of medications & additives found in the meat after processing. Martha, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 18:54:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07543 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02565 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:28:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02507 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09776 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:26:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA03172; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:25:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma2d-81.ix.netcom.com(209.110.255.81) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003062; Fri Oct 8 17:24:59 1999 Message-ID: <008201bf11dc$1f241940$51ff6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Paul Schmitmeyer" , "Sanet" Subject: Re: Organic and Nutrition Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:26:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3105 Hi Paul et al, This is exactly what I was thinking. Its whats not in organic food more than whats in it. It does not surprise me if in studying vit. etc. that the same type of veggies basically test the same. But of course organics would be free of pesticide residue, right! :). Beth -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer To: Sanet Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:25 AM Subject: Organic and Nutrition >Hi all, > Even tho the conventional produce may be equal on paper, isn't the real >difference in the chemicals not present in the organic food? Or if you talk >to some people, the lack of what they refer to as negative energies. >Thoughts? >Paul > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 18:56:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07559 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:56:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06616 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:33:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from www1.townsqr.com (www.townsqr.com [207.18.224.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06604 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tom-speraneo (unverified [63.78.117.69]) by www1.townsqr.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 08 Oct 1999 17:36:34 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19991008222951.009a951c@townsqr.com> X-Sender: snsaquasys@townsqr.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 17:29:51 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: S & S Aqua Farm Subject: Six-week chickens, was Re: goat meat Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3106 At 03:08 PM 10/08/1999 -0500, Martha, (Texas) wrote: > >I'm actually more concerned with avoiding foods that have an >intensive grow method. Any animal (chicken) that's table ready in 7 >weeks, (SEVEN WEEKS, a tomato takes longer!) has had things >done to it from birth on up that we need to take into consideration >when we eat it. They've been genetically engineered (there's that >term again) to grow at remarkable rates, but almost impossible to >do on feeds without antibiotics. (Backpedaling a little here, I said >'almost' because there are some who are doing it with organic >feeds, I've been told.) Is this accurate? My understanding of the chicken-tractor raised birds we've been buying locally is that they're six weeks in the pasture - of course, I don't know how old they are when they're moved from the brooder pen. I know these chicks are naturally raised and the owners (Protiva's Peace Valley Pastured Poultry - try saying that seven times) are dedicated organic farmers. Is there some reason a chicken can't naturally be table-ready in seven weeks? Paula Speraneo S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124 Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 22:25:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09736 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22604 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:05:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22543 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:05:10 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:03:44 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:03:44 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.77] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 15361c3c ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:03:28 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991008204846.007b9c20@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 20:48:46 -0500 To: Subject: Bt corn & monarch flutterbyes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3107 >Saneteers - for your review and discussion: > >From CTIC Partners, summer 1999: >In a study relased by Cornell Univ., 44% of Monarch larvae died after >being fed milweed leaves dusted with pollen from Bt corn. > >The study's results have been criticized because no precise measurements >were made of the amount of Bt pollen fed to the larvae. Have the details of the Iowa State University Study, which confirmed the Cornell study, been released? The original news release was at >Article is (was?) at http://www.pme.iastate.edu/info/monarch.htm and the research was to be published this summer sometime. >Corn pollen is heavy; thus it usually moves less than nine feet. This is what the Seeds of Texas Seed Exchange Vegetable Seed Saver's Handbook says about corn. "Corn, Zea mays Wind-pollinated corn requires up to a mile for safe isolation in exposed areas. Exact isolation distances will depend on neighboring growers and wind patterns, wind-break protection , etc (corn pollen is relatively heavy and falls to the ground quickly under quiet conditions)....." So I guess whether BT pollen is a problem for monarch larvae depends on where the milkweed plants are located relative to the corn and the wind conditions at the time of pollination. Most of the milkweed I see here in Iowa is in the road ditches next to the corn fields. More study on monarch population stability seems in order. >Item #2 (pages 6-7) > >Soil organic matter cannot be increased significantly by addition of >manure and use of conventional tillage. No-till on the other hand, can >have dramatic effects on organic matter increases. > >Source: USDA NRCS soil Quality Institute Tech Note, >www.statlab.iastate.edu/survey/SQI/pdf How does this square with the graphic in Nature's News and Views by David Tilman showing manure addition as the most effective method of increasing soil organic matter? See Nature/Vol 396/19NOV1998/ Pg. 211. The associated article by Drinkwater et al. starts on page 262. See http://www.nature.com for on line versions of these articles. Unforturnately, the tillage details for the conventional, reduced tillage, succession and manure addition test plots are in Agron. J. 81, 150-159 (1989). Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 22:27:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09743 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23220 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:07:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23200 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.46.228.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.46.228]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29229; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FC2F6A.6E354449@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:28:10 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: steved@ncatark.uark.edu CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition References: <199910060410.XAA14742@ncatark.uark.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3108 Yeaaah !! There aren't any animals bothering the neighbors' yards. but every animal that grows around here makes a bee line for my yard--they eat everything, and I mean it, everything !!! I never got to eat one single peach that was ripe. Figs, I can grab one not quite ripe so I get to taste what they might be ripe, before some animal takes a bite out of one and discards it as unripe, I suppose. Tomatoes-- they eat the side they can reach thru the wire netting. And worst of all, they get the sapote tree for a night banquet, and it is I who has to clean up the mess of dropped fruit the next morning. For sure, animals want sugar above all, and they know this yard is where to get it. Steve Diver wrote: > >I can't recall whether this has been addressed in this forum before > >or not...but an organic farmer I am working with recalls a federal > >study which found that organic food is superior in some nutrients to > >conventional food. She says she recalls that some nutrients were in > >the hundreds and even thousands of percent greater in organic food. > > > >Does anyone know if this study exists and where to get a copy? > >Thanks. > > > >Mark > > The Sanet archives contain a number of posts relating to the > nutritional quality of organic foods. > > In addition to references previously posted, here are three more > sources: > > 1. > "The Healing Power of Minerals, Special Nutrients and Trace Elements" > by Paul Bergner (1997, Prima Publishing, Rocklin, CA) includes USDA > figures that show a decline in mineral and vitamin content of several > fruits and vegetables between 1914, 1963, and 1992. Table 1 is a > summary of mineral decreases in fruits and vegetables over a 30-year > period, adapted from Bergner's book. > > Table 1. Average changes in the mineral content of some fruits and > vegetables*, 1963-1992 > > Mineral Average % Change > > Calcium -29.82 > Iron -32.00 > Magnesium -21.08 > Phosphorus -11.09 > Potassium -6.48 > > * Fruits and vegetables measured: oranges, apples, bananas, > carrots, potatoes, corn, tomatoes, celery, romaine lettuce, broccoli, > iceberg lettuce, collard greens, and chard > > 2. > In England, Anne Marie-Mayer compared food composition over a 50-year > period using data from the UK Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and > Food (MAFF). Her study, "Historical Changes in the Mineral > Content of Fruits and Vegetables" was presented at the Agricultural > Production and Nutrition conference held at Tufts University School of > Nutrition Science and Policy on March 19-21, 1997. > > Table 2, adapted from Marie-Mayer's paper, summarizes the average > ratio of nutrient content and dry matter of 20 vegetables and 20 > fruits. A ratio of 0.81 for Ca, for example, means that over an > approximately 50-year period the average content of calcium in > vegetables has declined to 81% of the original level. > > Table 2. Average ratio of mineral content and dry matter (new/old) > for vegetables and 20 fruits* > > Ca Mg Fe Cu Na K P D.M. > Vegetable ratio 0.81* 0.65* 0.78 0.19* 0.57* 0.86 0.94 0.97 > > Fruit ratio 1.00 0.89* 0.68* 0.64* 0.90 0.80* 0.99 0.91 > > The symbol * indicates a statistical difference > > 3. > In 1997 an extensive literature review was published: > > "A comparison of organically and conventionally grown foods -- > results of a review of the relevant literature" by Katrin > Woese, Dirk Lange, Christian Boess, and Klaus Werner Bogl. > 1997. J. Sci. Food Agric. Vol. 74, 281-293. > > The authors are with: > > Federal Institute for Health Protection of Consumers and > Veterinary Medicine, Division 2, Chemistry and Technology > of Foods and Commodities, PO Box 330013, D-14191, Berlin, > Germany. > > The review summarizes and evaluates the results of more than 150 > investigations (published between 1926 and 1994) comparing the > quality of conventionally and organically produced food, or of foods > produced by different fertilization systems. > > The review is particularly noteworthy to those of us readers here in > the United States, because it looks like better than 90% of the > citations are from German-language journals and literature. > > This article does a good job of addressing the parameters used > to evaluate differences item by item. > > One passage worth noting: > > "Only the more or less correlative results of the feed selection > tests permit a general conclusion: animals distinguish between the > foods on offer from the various agricultural systems and almost > exclusively prefer organic produce." > > ============================================= > As an aside, this is what Dr. William Albrecht emphasized in his work > as a soil scientist at the University of Missouri; i.e., animal > feeding trials to ascertain the true quality of feedstuffs, writing: > > "cows are capable chemists" > > "as a chemist by experience and survival, not by academic training, > the cow led the nomad over fertile soils" > > "we need to start observing and judging the cow as she is a chemist > on the hoof guiding her own nutrition" > ============================================== > > Other findings: > > *Lower nitrates in organically produced or fertilised vegetables. > *Lower pesticide residues in organic fruit and vegetables > *Higher dry matter content in organic products > *Feed experiments showed animals preferentially selected organic > produce, but where fertility parameters and rearing performance were > determined the results were contradictory > > Steve Diver > ATTRA > http://www.attra.org > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 22:29:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09748 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23233 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:07:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23215 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.46.228.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.46.228]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29321; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FC303A.7E43BD74@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:31:38 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Agriculture Network CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" , "'flylo@txcyber.com'" Subject: Re: FW: Organic Landscape (too much?) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3109 Right about one thing. We grew up with the wonderfully tasting Red Rice, as we all called it, because when pounded in a mortar, it left a red colored residue in the bottom of the mortar---probably the main source of the vitamins and minerals that gave the best flavor. But a few years ago, my sister who went there said she could not find "red rice" anywhere. Sustainable Agriculture Network wrote: > Forwarding from Martha (flyto@txcyber.com) > > From: flylo@txcyber.com > > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:31:32 -0500 > Subject: Organic Landscape (too much?) > Priority: normal > > I've been glazing over when I read some posts, and may have > missed a huge part of this thread. If I've butted in where I'm > obviously misinformed, forgive me. > One thing I see that the folk who subscribe to the 'we have plenty' > argument seem to miss is the quality of the food produced. If we > (corporate America) can go to SE Asia and convince them to grow > our rice because it produces 7x the quantity their traditional > varieties do, we've done a good thing, right? What if that 7x > requires at least 7x the available land and labor to produce it? > What if, once it's produced, it TAKES that much to feed a family > because the nutritive quality is diminished from what they used to > eat? > > So, are we really producing too much food? or just too much of the > wrong food? If the wheat we harvest and the corn we feed our (food > producing) livestock lack the nutritional aspects too, what are we > promoting? And, I confess I do promote it. We all do to some > extent unless we're totally self sufficient. I still buy commercial > grains for my dairy goats, and I use store bought flour to make my > bread. (martha) > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 8 22:29:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09766 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22475 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:05:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22355 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 22:04:58 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:03:32 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:03:32 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.77] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 15411a3c ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:03:26 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991008200135.007b9c20@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 20:01:35 -0500 To: Subject: Re: Monsanto and water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3110 Subject: Re: Monsanto and water > > >Hi >I am a recent subscriber and have not checked the archives (so don't bash >me if this is an old thread), but I have noted 2 comments in the past week >about Monsanto trying to control/privatize water rights (one in the recent >India & Monsanto letter). >Could someone shed some illumination on this? Any concrete evidence? Check the April 1999 issue of the Multinational Monitor. They have an entire section addressing various aspects of water policy including the privatizing of water supplies. They have an online database of past articles at http://www.essential.org/monitor/monitor.html Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 00:16:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10875 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00804 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:52:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cybermesa.com (root@mail.cybermesa.com [198.59.109.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00755 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by mail.cybermesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3(SpamKiller1.0)) with ESMTP id VAA03473; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:50:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.12.75.148] (dial148.roadrunner.com [209.12.75.148]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA24728; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, S & S Aqua Farm From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Re: Six-week chickens, was Re: goat meat Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3111 Dear Paula, In responding to Paula's question: "Is there some reason a chicken can't naturally be table-ready in seven weeks?" Broilers have been bred over years to go from egg to frying pan pronto. It's mostly in the breeding and the feed regime. Modern broilers are like race cars in that they need a fine-tuned feed to run at top speed (with oversized breasts and legs). How "intensively" you feed those chicks determines their growth rate. For example, feed them less protein and their rate slows. Many pastured and organic poultry growers use these same breeds and they respond in the same way--high speed to the finish line but with organic feeds, fresh air, sunlight, green pasture and insects. It's more about the breeding than anything else... Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 00:16:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10876 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:16:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00778 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:52:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cybermesa.com (root@mail.cybermesa.com [198.59.109.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00697 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by mail.cybermesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3(SpamKiller1.0)) with ESMTP id VAA03458 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.12.75.148] (dial148.roadrunner.com [209.12.75.148]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA24717 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:50:56 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:50:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Corn pollen is heavy; thus it usually moves less than nine feet. Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3112 Dear sanet and corn experts, I'd like to get other people's opinions about isolation distances needed for corn to maintain varietal purity. The statement below is excerpted from Mike Richardson's recent email and is apparantly from CTIC Partners, summer 1999" : "Corn pollen is heavy; thus it usually moves less than nine feet." Seed to Seed by Suzanne Ashworth states that "...corn pollen is light and can be carried long distances by wind. Isolating a variety of corn by 2 miles will ensure purity." I know that the isolation distance depends on many factors, but I'd still like to hear from others about their EXPERIENCE. Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 00:50:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11016 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA14531 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:17:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14489 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d09-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.9]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA22659 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:15:49 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: meat quality, was ... the organic landscape Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:22:25 +1000 Message-ID: <000301bf120d$e386cb80$093325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <37FCCB53.2D93@smallfarms.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3113 I think several issues run together in this thread. There are more than grass v lot fed questions as regards taste, though it is clear that lot fed beef will be much easier for folk without teeth to eat, and if you go to the extreme of lot feeding, as with Matsuzaka beef in Japan, the animal massaged and fed beer in the regular diet, you really do have the tender Sumo wrestler of marbled beef. Both range fed and lot fed animals can be victims of poor nutrition. On the range, poor nutrition may be more evident, and the carcass downgraded (or the poor looking animal is bought into the lot feeding business for finishing. On the other hand, there are some strange inputs in some lot feeding operations - for example, the feeding of waste from battery hen operations to lot fed cattle may still produce an impressive carcass, and the most impressive looking slab of lot fed steak may be from a very strangely fed animal. There are differences in the quality of lamb carcasses, by breed and more especially with age (I write from a country where the sheep outnumber the humans by seven to one). Of very great importance also is how animals are treated between the farm and slaughter. This is/should be an essential element in any organic standard, that animals be treated decently. The carcass of an animal slaughtered after a very stressful process of rounding up, trucking, running through an auction, delivery to abattoir and other rough handling before slaughter will be tough and tainted, with a low pH and at times strange coloured, relative to the carcass of an animal which was slaughtered unstressed. In the nature of things, the lot feed industry is more industrially oriented, and lot fed cattle are often more likely to be direct sold and experience less rough handling before slaughter. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 01:25:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11184 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08999 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:58:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08958 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d09-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.9]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA27202 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:56:32 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: Organic and nutrition Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 15:03:04 +1000 Message-ID: <000401bf1213$918ed9c0$093325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <37FC2F6A.6E354449@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3114 I don't have research data, don't know who does, but I would think that if you took the carcasses of a 70 year old recently dead with prostate cancer and a nubile 20 year old just run over by a bus, you may find, with the accuracy of modern scientific assaying processes, that the two carcasses may be of comparable mineral content, especially if you trimmed the rough bits first. I would love to be corrected. Bart made the points about soil, which I believe should be the start point. While our eye is, in the nature of our preoccupations, on our own stomachs, the sustainability issue starts with soil nutrition. Would people prefer, or be as well off nutritionally, on some science fiction diet of pills providing 'essential nutrition' to the best of current scientific ability to build such pills? I think the vote is going to be no. Why then do we suppose that plants and animals depending on the soil can get by on such thin stuff. I don't know how soil science is conventionally taught, but I suspect that in the reductionist details, some of the broad systemic issues may be skipped. My own view is that we would be well served to commit much more effort to understanding the origins of life not just in palaeontological terms, but in the relationship between clays, coacervates, algae, fungi and bacteria, and their extraordinary associations with plant roots. In other words, to recognise that our dependence on soil and plants is much more than a nutritional chemical pathway. When we have an ability to understand better, and describe for popular culture, just what is going on there, then people will be more aware that plants are very complex systems, with life properties going beyond crude nutrient assays. We are, again, preoccupied by our majesty at the top of the food chain; but our processes for nutrient uptake seem much simpler in many ways than what plants are doing day by day. Hydroponic vegetables allow us to make a couple of points of importance. Because such plants are generally grown inside buildings, they may not be vulnerable to insects, and so may not have pesticides on them (I don't discount the importance of avoiding pesticides, but it's sort of a side track from the core of what organic growing is about). But the hydroponics will almost certainly NOT have been exposed to natural, unfiltered light. And for the most part they are fed on crude nutrient solutions. Hydroponics look great in the supermarket, but a lot of the 'look' derives from the fact that confronted by uptake of a strong nutrient solution, plant cells will seek to take up even more water - hence swollen cells, looking good on the shelf, (much like older folk can look less wrinkly, by taking hormones that cause fluid retention). That means that the plant is likely to consist of more stressed cells and more crude nutrients - so an assay of such a plant may show up more 'minerals', maybe balanced out by more water. And hey, this chemically overloaded item is going to keep looking good in the supermarket, as the water spray in the produce spray keeps up the osmotic frantics. I tend to be more chemically sensitive than the average person. I get what feels like a 'nitrate headache' (not so strong, but just the same headache as I can get taking tiny doses of nitroglycerine, for cramp problems - angina is the classic use of nitro, but it can also be used in other cases) from some hydroponic lettuces. Of course, the stressed lettuce only has to last a few weeks. Experiment to suggest - we have done it by accident: buy one organic lettuce, and one hydroponic lettuce. Put them in the same part of the fridge. Go away for two weeks. The organic lettuce, in our experience, will be there, whole and welcoming; the other item will be on the way to becoming watery sludge. Pears, especially nashi, the oriental pear, with even higher water content, are among the best indicators of difference in taste and keeping quality, as between conventional and organic. Our own organic nashi have a fresh, complex flavour. Conventional nashi often seem to have a taste and smell like a chemical fertiliser bag. I think taste is an excellent indicator of nutritional value for the individual, far more sophisticated than the printed info on box. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 01:29:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11198 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA18350 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:11:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18262 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 01:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d09-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.9]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA28871 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 15:10:05 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: protein, etc. was RE: goat meat Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 15:16:40 +1000 Message-ID: <000501bf1215$782ea800$093325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <99Oct8.133924cdt.26886@mint.cwb.ca> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3115 One of the major changes in diets in the last few decades has been the shift to eating, among animal products, essentially muscle protein - the cuts of meat, without the offal. Of course, a lot of people, fearing fats arriving with the protein, have moved away from even muscle protein. Proteins are broken down in the body into amino acids and from these other proteins, as needed by our bodies, are made. If we do not have enough protein, the conversion of the storage thyroid protein T4 [thyroxin] to the active thyroid hormone T3 (triiodothyronine) goes wrong, and 'reverse T3' is produced, which inhibits thyroid performance further. That brings disruption of mitochondrial metabolic processes required for energy, for steroidal hormonal production, for sugar and protein management - indeed, for avoiding stress in the whole organism. There is a need to try to have more than muscle protein. Liver is of value, in pate if not fresh (but read the label, there ain't much liverwurst in the store with liver in it these days!). Whole shellfish contain the lot, including the creature's thyroid, and valuable trace minerals. Boiling a chicken with the thyroid still there in the throat, plus liver, gives everybody a healthy soup of mixed protein and thyroid. Dependence on legumes for protein also has problems, as this may impact on thyroid and mitochondrial performance - go to http://www.infotrieve.com/freemedline/ and do a Medline search for 'legume and thyroid' Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 04:10:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12364 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 04:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA22327 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:47:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22308 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJB00AVPS87TE@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 00:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 23:13:43 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Re: Monsanto and water In-reply-to: To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" References: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3116 Howdy, all-- Our new subscriber Emmy wrote: >I am a recent subscriber and have not checked the archives (so don't bash >me if this is an old thread), but I have noted 2 comments in the past week >about Monsanto trying to control/privatize water rights (one in the recent >India & Monsanto letter). >Could someone shed some illumination on this? Any concrete evidence? For the heckuvit I checked the archives and couldn't find the danged thing original postings either. Weird. Couldn't find them in my archived e-mail either. Mike pointed us to the Multinational Monitor site. Additionally, here's a place where you can read Vandana Shiva's article from /The Hindu/ 1 May, 1999, on this topic: http://www.portaec.net/library/food/waterwatch.html She has a list server called WATERWATCH-L, but DANGED if I can find it. I'll keep looking till I do...unless one of you kind folks can help me. :^) Welcome, Emmy. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We're not against ideas. We're against people spreading them. --Augusto Pinochet To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 06:46:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12926 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 06:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA18673 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 06:18:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18573 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 06:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991009101643.YRAE650.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:16:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37FF16B2.EEF256C7@home.com> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 03:19:30 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: heavy corn pollen(tell that to a bee) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3117 "I'd like to get other people's opinions about isolation distances needed for corn to maintain varietal purity." Its been my observation that pollen is light(maybe its heavy in relation to other pollens) , and be carried on the wind very easily....now throw in some foraging bees and who can tell how far one must isolate two differing strains... billevans To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 07:08:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13144 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 07:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03522 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 06:43:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03442 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 06:43:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.34] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 05:41:40 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 05:39:34 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <15235.991009@acnet.net> To: Subject: More than PR? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3118 Hello again, >From the March 99 issue of Scientific American, located in it's DIRECTORY OF TECHNOLOGY AND BUSINESS FROM PREVIOUS ISSUES at http://www.sciam.com/1999/0399issue/0399techbus2.html comes this: With negotiations on climate change policy stalled, some major corporations are setting their own environmental policies ...the Kyoto Protocol, the international treaty addressing climate change, has been just a guest star on the world's political stage, capturing momentary attention but then quickly fading into the backdrop. The reason: the protocol will not become a permanent fixture until 55 countries ratify it. To date, only three countries, ... have done so. ... The Kyoto Protocol, negotiated in December 1997, set targets for developed countries to reduce their emissions of the greenhouse gases most scientists believe have contributed to increases in average global temperature over the past century. ... the U.S. is not bound by the treaty unless the Senate ratifies it. Opposition to the treaty is so strong that the Clinton administration will not be sending it to Capitol Hill for a vote anytime soon. ... what's a good environmentalist to do? Try pairing up with a major oil company or automobile manufacturer. For instance, the World Resources Institute (WRI), an environmental organization based in Washington, D.C., recently entered just such a partnership--the "Safe Climate, Sound Business" initiative--with the oil and gas company BP Amoco (formed by the merger of British Petroleum and Amoco), automaker General Motors and the agriculture and biotechnology firm Monsanto. ... the group has called for businesses to measure and report greenhouse gas emissions, to work to reduce and sequester emissions, and to include global climate considerations when making investment decisions. The partners also suggested that governments eliminate subsidies for fossil fuels (the U.S. government provides an estimated $9 billion in annual subsidies to the oil industry) and increase support for basic research on climate science. Now all four organizations are implementing the business recommendations internally, starting with the measurement of their emissions of greenhouse gases. In addition, over the next few years, the companies will start reducing these emissions. BP Amoco has set a goal of lowering its output of greenhouse gases by 10 percent from 1990 figures by 2010. General Motors aims to cut its total energy use by 20 percent from 1995 levels by 2002. And Monsanto is studying how certain agricultural practices might increase sequestration of carbon in soil. What is Monsanto's rationale here? I suspect the consensus here will be that these are token gestures, but could it be that there are people with these organizations that are working to change them? Even if true, surely the degree to which they will be allowed to take measures that affect the companies bottom line is not entirely within their control, to put it mildly. I read on: Kenneth E. Blower, director of health, safety and environment at BP Amoco, says the company's decision to address climate change on its own and in collaboration with WRI and the Environmental Defense Fund was a business one: "We want to be early into this [issue]--this will be valuable to stockholders in the long term." Indeed, the company did start talking about global warming early on, at least compared with many in the oil industry who continue to dispute that human activity has had any impact on global climate. In a speech at Stanford University in May 1997, John Browne, the chief executive officer of what was then just British Petroleum, acknowledged that "there is a discernible human influence on the climate and a link between the concentration of carbon dioxide and the increase in temperature." Browne later described the reaction he received from others in the oil industry: they saw it as "'leaving the church,' as one particular commentator suggested," he said. But if BP Amoco was the first major firm out the climate change door, others are now following. Royal Dutch Shell joined BP Amoco in leaving the Global Climate Coalition, an industry organization that has lobbied heavily against the Kyoto Protocol. The two have signed on with the pro- treaty group, the International Climate Change Partnership, which in the past year has doubled in size to more than 40 companies. (All this is not to say that relations between big business and environmental groups are perfect. For instance, in late January, Greenpeace filed a lawsuit to halt construction by BP Amoco of the first offshore oil project in the Arctic Ocean.) ... Lester R. Brown, head of the environmental group Worldwatch Institute, has observed a shift in corporate attitudes. There have been some "fundamental changes," Brown notes, such as increasing investments by the energy industry in wind and solar power. "Corporations are doing some ingenious rethinking," he says. "Something is happening in a way that has not happened before." Any concrete comments? Anyone not entirely skeptic? Any basis for hope? Douglas Hinds CeDeCoR, A.C. (Center for Rural and Community Development) Cordoba, Veracruz dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 09:26:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13628 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:26:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24549 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:01:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24421 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:01:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 08:04:06 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.176] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AC72D9880078; Sat, 09 Oct 1999 08:00:34 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 12:58:52 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3119 On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:07:18 +0000, Steve Diver wrote: >Table 1. Average changes in the mineral content of some fruits and >vegetables*, 1963-1992 [Bergner] > >Mineral Average % Change > >Calcium -29.82 >Iron -32.00 >Magnesium -21.08 >Phosphorus -11.09 >Potassium -6.48 > >* Fruits and vegetables measured: oranges, apples, bananas, >carrots, potatoes, corn, tomatoes, celery, romaine lettuce, broccoli, >iceberg lettuce, collard greens, and chard Given these declines. Given organic vs. conventional studies from the late '80s that were (at best) inconclusive. Given the high dedication to organic production principles at the time (ie, money was not the motive as it so often is these days) ... the organic movement/community/industry should go into a corner and hide from embarassment. Conventional agriculture has been producing food of persistently deteriorating mineral quality. For all its philosophy and self congratulation and boosterism the organic alternative is no better. If organic farmers in the late '80s had simply been doing as well as their conventional colleagues a quarter century earlier, they would have 'won' those comparisons with conventional in a walk-away. Returning to my comment of yesterday, I'd also remind the reader that --- in the field --- the mineral nutrient management situation on organic farms is significantly worse that it was a decade ago. Leaving aside the handful of superb organic farmers (the Richard deWildes and the Ed Rezniceks of this business) what we have collectively accomplished with minerals in the last twenty years of organics is, precisely, nothing. We would only have had to stay in place for twenty years to be coming out far ahead in comparisons with conventional. That we have not indicates with distressing clarity that the organic industry is all sizzle and no steak when it comes to minerals. >As an aside, this is what Dr. William Albrecht emphasized in his work >as a soil scientist at the University of Missouri; i.e., animal >feeding trials to ascertain the true quality of feedstuffs, writing: > >"cows are capable chemists" > >"as a chemist by experience and survival, not by academic training, >the cow led the nomad over fertile soils" > >"we need to start observing and judging the cow as she is a chemist >on the hoof guiding her own nutrition" Particularly true in the case of calcium levels in forage, and in particular of K:Ca ratios in alfalfa. Most alfalfa (conventional and organic) has about 1% Ca. It ideally should be 2%. Potash is much higher because potash is cheap and extension is continually encouraging farmers to pour the potash onto alfalfa. Ideal potash in alfalfa is about 2 - 2.5%. If it's above 3%, you'll be seeing the vet more than you like. If it's above 4%, you'll be seeing the knackerman (renderer) more than you like. If it's above 5%, you be seeing the *banker* more than you like. Given the alarming declines of magnesium in human nutrition over the last couple of generations. Given that it is usually a heart seizure that kills cattle in low-magnesium grass tetany. Given the frequency of human deaths from "apparent heart attack" (after which the autopsy shows nothing) ... does anyone besides me see a connection? >Other findings: > >*Lower nitrates in organically produced or fertilised vegetables. I have to disagree with this one. Nitrate levels in vegetables are very strongly correlated with *light* levels, which is why we routinely refused to sell any lettuce (a nitrate accumulator) after the equinox. Blood meal, and chilean nitrate have consistently produced higher levels of nitrates in most crops than most conventional nitrogen fertilisers. Manures were just as bad. Readers interested in more info should contact ATTRA (800-346-9140) for a copy of the long, heavily referenced work on nitrates that I did for them back in 1992. Believe me, I don't buy California "organic" lettuce (fertilised with chicken manure and/or Chilean nitrate) in the winter (cloudy, short days). >*Lower pesticide residues in organic fruit and vegetables Generally true, by about an order of magnitude, if I remember correctly. That is, about 25% of conventional produce shows some residues, while only about 3-5% of organic produce does. Most pesticide residues on conventional produce are below US government tolerance levels (about 80% of those tests showing any residues at all, but I'm going from memory here, so discount the number accordingly). Organic exceeds tolerance levels only very rarely. >*Higher dry matter content in organic products Generally true, because nitrogen fertilizer tends to bulk up fruit and vegetable yields with *water.* Total dry matter yield in a well-managed organic produce operation can surpass that in a heavy-nitrogen conventional system. This can account for the flavour advantage sometimes accruing to organic. Let's remember, though, that sugar metabolism is largely controlled by calcium and mediated by boron, with magnesium and potash in supporting roles. I have been able to increase sugar content of various crops by 20 - 50% simply by proper management of the forms and amounts of calcium available to the plant. If the organic produce farmer (having eschewed conventional nitrogen and its organic cousins, like Chilean) does not also militate in favour of high sugars, the result is very often disappointing yields of a disappointing (to the consumer) produce. Long-story-short: this mineral nutrient stuff matters a whole bunch for both the quality and the nutritive value of foods and feeds. That the overwhelming majority of organic farmers don't 'get' this any better than their conventional colleagues is a continuing tragedy approaching the point of having completely squandered a remarkable opportunity. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 10:36:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14013 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:36:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09603 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:20:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09575 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.120] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:18:37 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:16:34 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <4386.991009@acnet.net> To: "Bluestem Associates" CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re[2]: Organic and nutrition In-reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3120 Hi Bart, Saturday, October 09, 1999, 5:58:52 AM, you wrote: BA> Long-story-short: this mineral nutrient stuff matters a whole bunch for BA> both the quality and the nutritive value of foods and feeds. That the BA> overwhelming majority of organic farmers don't 'get' this any better BA> than their conventional colleagues is a continuing tragedy approaching BA> the point of having completely squandered a remarkable opportunity. BA> Bart I would remove the word "completely" from that statement - the coin's still up in the air. In any case, the problem is the same: The considerations currently being given weight by the majority of the nation's (and world's) farmers, be they organic or conventional, do NOT contemplate the factors you describe in any significant way. The task then, is to get the issue into the public view and onto the public agenda, beginning with a case by case manner, just as you are already doing. The opportunity to break into a major league demonstration project may not be far off. (BTW, Bart was one of the people on my list of ideal debaters for the organic movement in the imaginary "debate w/ the Avery's" scenario). Douglas Hinds CeDeCoR, A.C. (Center for Rural and Community Development) Cordoba, Veracruz; Cd. Guzman, Jalisco & Reynosa, Tamaulipas Mexico + McAllen TX USA dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 13:38:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15076 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24701 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:18:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24661 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.145.129] (dialup-0385.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.145.129]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA67457; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:16:07 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:11:35 +0100 To: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone), sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: Six-week chickens, was Re: goat meat Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3121 Paula, Nathan etc Broilers have been bred by conventional hybridisation not genetic modification. They only reach killing weight in 7 weeks if their movement is restricted. As soon as you put them on pasture (at four to six weeks depending on weather conditions) they start to take exercise and you can't get fat fast if you exercise. In an organic system they will have had sufficient space indoors to take exercise before they go out onto the grass.In my experience such strains take at least 12 weeks of good weather and up to 14 in winter to reach the same weights. They eat up to 5 time as much food ration during the process as well as grass, insects etc. And boy can you taste the difference. Though given the recent discussions on this list on beef that tastes of grass and lamb that tastes of hillside pastures and the reaction of the american consumer maybe american customers wouldn't like to have their chicken taste like chicken. Something that has fascinated me of recent years is the american love affair with large quantities of herbs when cooking meats. In Europe we tend to use smaller amounts to point up the natural flavour but one american friend has suggested that americans like to have their meats as a "blank canvas" with a pretty neutral taste - in which I concur. I'm not saying you can't get good meats in America, I know you can, but I also know you have to look much harder to find them than the European consumer does. I've been fascinated watching people who want mild flavoured meats go searching for wildcrafted salads. Strange. Though some supermarket chains here in Ireland are doing their level best to persuade their customers to eat basically tasteless food with additives for flavour - and succeed pretty well if they can get the price down far enough Guess I'd better get my head below the parapet kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Oct 9 03:44:46 1999 -0400 Received: from smtp.indosat.net.id (indo-nms3.indosat.net.id [202.155.0.11]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12242 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from indosat.net.id ([202.155.2.60]) by smtp.indosat.net.id (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA651; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:58:39 +0700 Message-ID: <37FEE99B.D026D126@indosat.net.id> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 14:07:07 +0700 From: North Sumatra Peasant Union X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: people USAID , "Peoples' Global Action against 'Free' Trade and the WTO (PGA)" , Philip Lyth , Presiden RI , Prime Minister Jenny Shipley , Pusat Studi Asia Pasifik UG , "pusdata@dephut.cbn.net.id" Subject: OPPOSE A MILLENNIUM ROUND OF TRADE NEGOTIATIONS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3122 STATEMENT FROM NORTH SUMATERA INDONESIA PO and NGO, AS MEMBERS OF INTERNATIONAL CIVIL SOCIETY- OPPOSING A MILLENNIUM ROUND OF TRADE NEGOTIATIONS In November 1999, the governments of the world will meet in Seattle for the World Trade Organization's Third Ministerial Conference. We, the undersigned members of international civil society from North Sumatera Indonesia, oppose any effort to expand the powers of the World Trade Organization (WTO) through a new comprehensive round of trade liberalisation. Instead, governments should review and rectify the deficiencies of the system and the WTO regime itself. The Uruguay Round Agreements and the establishment of the WTO were proclaimed as a means of enhancing the creation of global wealth and prosperity and promoting the well-being of all people in all member states. In reality however, in the past five years the WTO has contributed to the concentration of wealth in the hands of the rich few; increasing poverty for the majority of the world's population; and unsustainable patterns of production and consumption. The Uruguay Round Agreements have functioned principally to prise open markets for the benefit of transnational corporations at the expense of national economies; workers, farmers and other people; and the environment. In addition, the WTO system, rules and procedures are undemocratic, untransparent and non-accountable and have operated to marginalise the majority of the world's people. All this has taken place in the context of increasing global economic instability, the collapse of national economies, increasing inequity both between and within nations and increasing environmental and social degradation, as a result of the acceleration of the process of globalisation. The governments which dominate the WTO and the transnational corporations which have benefited from the WTO system have refused to recognise and address these problems. Instead, they are pushing for further liberalisation through the introduction of new issues for adoption in the WTO. This will lead to the exacerbation of the crisis associated which the process of globalisation and the WTO. We oppose any further liberalisation negotiations, especially those which will bring new areas under the WTO regime, such as investment, competition policy and government procurement. We commit ourselves to campaign to reject any such proposals. In particular we oppose the Trade Related Intellectual Property Rights Agreement (TRIPs). We call for a moratorium on any new issues or further negotiations that expand the scope and power of the WTO. During this moratorium there should be a comprehensive and in-depth review and assessment of the existing agreements. Effective steps should then be taken to change the agreements. Such a review should address the WTO's impact on marginalised communities, development, democracy, environment, health, human rights, labour rights and the rights of women and children. The review must be conducted with civil society's full participation. The failure of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's Multilateral Agreement on Investment (MAI) demonstrates broad public opposition to the deregulation of the global economy, the increasing dominance of transnational corporations and escalating resource use and environmental degradation. A review of the system will provide an opportunity for society to change course and develop an alternative, humane and sustainable international system of trade and investment relations. Medan, Oct. 9th, 1999 This statement is signed by: 1. North Sumatera Peasant Union, Medan, Indonesia 2. Labour Solidarity of North Sumatera, Medan, Indonesia 3. North Sumatera Urban Poor - LENTERA, Medan, Indonesia 4. Sintesa Foundation, Kisaran, North Sumatera, Indonesia 5. Amanat Tani Foundation, Medan, Indonesia 6. Bertani Foundation, South Tapanuli, Indonesia 7. Labuhan Tani, Rantau Prapat, Indonesia 8. Delapan Foundation, Medan, Indonesia 9. Serdang Tani Foundation, Deli Serdang, Indonesia 10. Pelangi Foundation, Langkat, Indonesia 11. Alam Tani Foundation, Asahan, Indonesia 12. Sejahtera Tani Foundation, Asahan, Indonesia *********************************************************** Serikat Petani Sumatera Utara/SPSU (North Sumatra Peasant Union/NSPU) Jl. Karya Jasa 58, Pangkalan Masyhur Medan, North Sumatera Indonesia 20143 Tel/Fax: +62 61 7862073 Email: putratan@indosat.net.id http://www.angelfire.com/nd/spsu (underconstruction) ************************************************************ Serikat Petani Sumatera Utara/SPSU (North Sumatra Peasant Union/NSPU) is the federation of peasant organization consists of 94 local peasant organizations in North Sumatera Province as its member. SPSU is declared by the peasant of North Sumatera in Parsariran, South Tapanuli District, North Sumatera Province Indonesia on June 3 1994. SPSU is member of La Via Campesina (International Peasant Movement) at International Level, and member of Consortium for Agrarian Reform (KPA) at National Level. SPSU is founder and member of Federasi Serikat Petani Indonesia/FSPI (Federation of Indonesian Peasant Union/FIPU). FSPI or FIPU declared on July 8th 1998 by several peasant organization of Indonesia. SPSU has two main bodies : Peasant Representative Board as the legislative body and The Peasant Executive Body. Both of them are elected by Congress directly. In order to implement its program SPSU will set up the Special Task Force and recruit the Consulates in local, regional, national, and international level. Special task force and Consulates are the supporting system of The Peasant Executive body consists of everyone and every institutions who concern to the Agrarian Reform, Indigenous People, Sustainable Agriculture, Democracy, and Peasant Movement. ************************************************************ From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 15:18:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15858 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 15:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18885 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:53:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18861 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15662 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA22341 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:51:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:51:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: OPPOSE A MILLENNIUM ROUND OF TRADE NEGOTIATIONS (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3123 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 13:34:36 +0700 From: North Sumatra Peasant Union To: Delapan , Dewi Fortuna Anwar , Doris Steinleitner , "ekspos@hotmail.com" Subject: OPPOSE A MILLENNIUM ROUND OF TRADE NEGOTIATIONS STATEMENT FROM NORTH SUMATERA INDONESIA PO and NGO, AS MEMBERS OF INTERNATIONAL CIVIL SOCIETY- OPPOSING A MILLENNIUM ROUND OF TRADE NEGOTIATIONS In November 1999, the governments of the world will meet in Seattle for the World Trade Organization's Third Ministerial Conference. We, the undersigned members of international civil society from North Sumatera Indonesia, oppose any effort to expand the powers of the World Trade Organization (WTO) through a new comprehensive round of trade liberalisation. Instead, governments should review and rectify the deficiencies of the system and the WTO regime itself. The Uruguay Round Agreements and the establishment of the WTO were proclaimed as a means of enhancing the creation of global wealth and prosperity and promoting the well-being of all people in all member states. In reality however, in the past five years the WTO has contributed to the concentration of wealth in the hands of the rich few; increasing poverty for the majority of the world's population; and unsustainable patterns of production and consumption. The Uruguay Round Agreements have functioned principally to prise open markets for the benefit of transnational corporations at the expense of national economies; workers, farmers and other people; and the environment. In addition, the WTO system, rules and procedures are undemocratic, untransparent and non-accountable and have operated to marginalise the majority of the world's people. All this has taken place in the context of increasing global economic instability, the collapse of national economies, increasing inequity both between and within nations and increasing environmental and social degradation, as a result of the acceleration of the process of globalisation. The governments which dominate the WTO and the transnational corporations which have benefited from the WTO system have refused to recognise and address these problems. Instead, they are pushing for further liberalisation through the introduction of new issues for adoption in the WTO. This will lead to the exacerbation of the crisis associated which the process of globalisation and the WTO. We oppose any further liberalisation negotiations, especially those which will bring new areas under the WTO regime, such as investment, competition policy and government procurement. We commit ourselves to campaign to reject any such proposals. In particular we oppose the Trade Related Intellectual Property Rights Agreement (TRIPs). We call for a moratorium on any new issues or further negotiations that expand the scope and power of the WTO. During this moratorium there should be a comprehensive and in-depth review and assessment of the existing agreements. Effective steps should then be taken to change the agreements. Such a review should address the WTO's impact on marginalised communities, development, democracy, environment, health, human rights, labour rights and the rights of women and children. The review must be conducted with civil society's full participation. The failure of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development's Multilateral Agreement on Investment (MAI) demonstrates broad public opposition to the deregulation of the global economy, the increasing dominance of transnational corporations and escalating resource use and environmental degradation. A review of the system will provide an opportunity for society to change course and develop an alternative, humane and sustainable international system of trade and investment relations. Medan, Oct. 9th, 1999 This statement is signed by: 1. North Sumatera Peasant Union, Medan, Indonesia 2. Labour Solidarity of North Sumatera, Medan, Indonesia 3. North Sumatera Urban Poor - LENTERA, Medan, Indonesia 4. Sintesa Foundation, Kisaran, North Sumatera, Indonesia 5. Amanat Tani Foundation, Medan, Indonesia 6. Bertani Foundation, South Tapanuli, Indonesia 7. Labuhan Tani, Rantau Prapat, Indonesia 8. Delapan Foundation, Medan, Indonesia 9. Serdang Tani Foundation, Deli Serdang, Indonesia 10. Pelangi Foundation, Langkat, Indonesia 11. Alam Tani Foundation, Asahan, Indonesia 12. Sejahtera Tani Foundation, Asahan, Indonesia *********************************************************** Serikat Petani Sumatera Utara/SPSU (North Sumatra Peasant Union/NSPU) Jl. Karya Jasa 58, Pangkalan Masyhur Medan, North Sumatera Indonesia 20143 Tel/Fax: +62 61 7862073 Email: putratan@indosat.net.id http://www.angelfire.com/nd/spsu (underconstruction) ************************************************************ Serikat Petani Sumatera Utara/SPSU (North Sumatra Peasant Union/NSPU) is the federation of peasant organization consists of 94 local peasant organizations in North Sumatera Province as its member. SPSU is declared by the peasant of North Sumatera in Parsariran, South Tapanuli District, North Sumatera Province Indonesia on June 3 1994. SPSU is member of La Via Campesina (International Peasant Movement) at International Level, and member of Consortium for Agrarian Reform (KPA) at National Level. SPSU is founder and member of Federasi Serikat Petani Indonesia/FSPI (Federation of Indonesian Peasant Union/FIPU). FSPI or FIPU declared on July 8th 1998 by several peasant organization of Indonesia. SPSU has two main bodies : Peasant Representative Board as the legislative body and The Peasant Executive Body. Both of them are elected by Congress directly. In order to implement its program SPSU will set up the Special Task Force and recruit the Consulates in local, regional, national, and international level. Special task force and Consulates are the supporting system of The Peasant Executive body consists of everyone and every institutions who concern to the Agrarian Reform, Indigenous People, Sustainable Agriculture, Democracy, and Peasant Movement. ************************************************************ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 18:53:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17736 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22851 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:35:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22741 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id RAA04374; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 17:33:44 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma004325; Sat, 9 Oct 99 17:33:38 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 17:33:38 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF72@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'nrboone@roadrunner.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Corn pollen is heavy; thus it usually moves less than nine fe et. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 17:33:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3124 Nathan, > I'd like to get other people's opinions about isolation distances > needed for corn to maintain varietal purity. Seed production fields are often placed surprisingly close to grain fields. Most companies isolate yellow from yellow only 20 rods (330 feet), and sometimes they cheat. Of course, these are big fields, and the industry tolerates up to 5% off-types (spurious hybrids). Sometimes they cheat on that too. Many companies including Pioneer, have more stringent standards, and sometimes even a few tenths of a percent contamination looks like hell in the customers field if the contaminant is tall, late, or has big tassels. My department, production research, is studying this in a big way right now because of the GMO contamination issue. There is not much hard data supporting the 20 rod isolation standard, and we are finding that things like relative position and relative size of the fields make a big difference in whether 330 feet is enough. Obviously, the smaller your cornfield is, the more isolation you need to maintain a given level of purity. Small, in this context, is less than about 20 acres. > Seed to Seed by Suzanne Ashworth states that "...corn > pollen is light and can be carried long distances by wind. > Isolating a variety of corn by 2 miles will ensure purity." Actually, corn pollen is among the largest and heaviest of the angiosperms, a little over 100 microns. Pollen size in most wind pollinated plants ranges from 17 to 58 microns ("Pollen: Biology biochemistry and management", R.G. Stanley and H.F. Linskens, 1974). My experience as a gardener is that contamination falls off pretty quick by fifty feet or so. It depends on wind speed and direction. Purity is a relative thing. If you want approximate purity (1-10% offtype), don't worry about it (the genes you pick up will probably be good Pioneer genes anyway). If you want to faithfully maintain a small plot of heirloom corn in the Midwest, you *must* bag the shoots and pollinate it by hand to get your seed. This is fun and easy, and Susan Ashworth gives a nice recipe in "Seed to Seed." The genetic contamination issue should not be confused with the monarch butterfly feeding issue. Very heavy Bt pollen loads on milkweed leaves are needed to cause deleterious effects on butterfly larvae. http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/1999/05/052099/monarch_3296.asp This kind of thing probably only occurs right on the field margin. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 9 20:41:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18329 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 20:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20723 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 20:16:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20575 for ; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 20:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.133]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA08897; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 19:09:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991009191159.007742a4@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 19:11:59 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition Cc: bluestem@webserf.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA20592 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3125 >Long-story-short: this mineral nutrient stuff matters a whole bunch for >both the quality and the nutritive value of foods and feeds. That the >overwhelming majority of organic farmers don't 'get' this any better >than their conventional colleagues is a continuing tragedy approaching >the point of having completely squandered a remarkable opportunity. > > >Bart > Dear Bart, You are correct that mineral nutrition is the critical dimension of quality in foods--in terms of health implications, in terms of flavor and in terms of storing. It is also the critical variable for pest and disease control in the field and post harvest. The data presented by Steve Driver are the first I have ever seen (it is not clear what they mean, however -29.82% of what?) that compare organic and conventional in terms of mineral content. However, it is mineral proportions that we should have. Ratios like Fe:Zn, Cu:Mo or Ca:Mg:P can tell us a lot more about what is going on than absolute amounts. (e.g the same absolute amount of Mo can be optimal or too low, depending on how much Cu there is, etc.) But how do you explain this situation? It is virtually impossible to grow organic vegetables, grains or fruits (not to mention animals) without adequate mineral and micronutrient management, as you would be the first to know. Are you really so sure that organic farmers's in the US have neglected this aspect so completely? How could they and still produce commercially? How could mineral nutrient management be worse today than a decade ago? It doesn't seem possible. It is not possible to grow organically without adequate mineral management. Could you please explain this situation further. Until I read your posts I would have bet anything that organic products would have a more optimal mineral profile. Perhaps they do, has anyone really looked at it? Yesterday you criticized organic farmers for not doing soil tests to determine mineral status. Conventional soil tests don't give us much information on mineral status (o its nice ot know pH and OM). P soil tests are very misleading--we have lots of P in some soils here but the plants can be showing clear P deficiency. We have found trace analysis of seeds or plant tissue to be more indicative of what is going on. But these are expensive and so we try to go more on what the state of the plants and the kinds of 'weeds', insects, fungi, algas etc. we find can tell us. I would rather have a test of biological activity of the kind Elaine Ingham offers than a mineral test of the soil. What tests would you recommend? In general, what would you recommend as the basics of organic mineral nutrition program for grains (corn)? for fruits? I agree with you that this aspect is very important and many people are unaware of it--but succesful organic farmers? They must deal with it somehow. Thank you Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 10 00:42:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19889 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29187 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:18:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29105 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.42.17.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.42.17]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11831; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FFF438.6D300A63@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 19:04:40 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Paulownia vs Kudzu References: <3.0.6.32.19990816235612.007be100@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3126 "that jerk" was Louis Bromfield. Farmers around there, ohio, ended up literally hating him. You can read about it. mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > Before you plant kudzu please, please take a drive along I-20 between > Birmingham and Atlanta to see what a non-native plant can do to the > enironment. Whether it is purple loosestrife in Wisconsin or multiflora > rose in Iowa the results are the same. Once you open that Pandora's box, > you cannot change your mind and your neighbors will not even have a say in > the havoc you can bring to bear on their land. I would love to get ahold > of the jerk who introduced multiflora rose to Iowa to replace cattle > fences. Even if you think you can control the plant, remember there are > bird and other seed carriers that you cannot control. Mike Miller > > At 21:58 16-08-99 -0600, you wrote: > > > > > > > >On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, Lon J. Rombough wrote: > >> Summer rainfall is definitely a factor in kudzu spread - I have seen it > here > >> in Oregon where summer is dry with low humidty (surprise!) and it makes a > >> fairly large plant, but never spreads. This after watching it for at least > > > >That was the exact reply I was hoping to get. :-) > >I could plant it in open fields subject to drying in summer, no trees > >nearby to "hang out in". Lots of compost, weed eradication and harvestable > >tuber, not to mention nitrogen fixing plus soil tilth improvement from > >shading and cooling by the kudzu. I wonder if it could co-exist with > >lespedeza, also a very vigorous grower, and drought resistant. > > > >Help hold back the next ice age, plant more kudzu. I wonder of any > >pollinators benefit from the deliciously fragrant kudzu blooms? > > > >> 5 years. The Himalaya blackberry fills that "niche" as a really noxious > >> invader. Well, noxious except for the very tasty fruit. > > > > > >Any kin to the common wild blackberry we have here in the Eastern US? > > > > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 10 00:42:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19893 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29305 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:18:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29228 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.42.17.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.42.17]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12204; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37FFF99E.E7626B36@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 19:27:42 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Nigh CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, bluestem@webserf.net Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition References: <3.0.1.32.19991009191159.007742a4@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3127 I think most organic growers already use seaweed and fish emulsion, that have become practically standard these days. I know when I started my very hard campaign to publicize use of seaweed--long decades ago, when there was only one farmer in so. Calif using it---that it was a fairly new idea to most people, so I pushed it extremely hard and constantly, via radio, TV, nspapers, magazine articles, etc. But now one sees the phrase: seaweed and fish emulsion just everywhere--it has become so constantly used. with good reason--so easy thereby to have a perfectly balanced trace mineral ratio too--since seaweed is itself a plant and has access to all of anything it could possibly want. Ronald Nigh wrote: > >Long-story-short: this mineral nutrient stuff matters a whole bunch for > >both the quality and the nutritive value of foods and feeds. That the > >overwhelming majority of organic farmers don't 'get' this any better > >than their conventional colleagues is a continuing tragedy approaching > >the point of having completely squandered a remarkable opportunity. > > > > > >Bart > > > Dear Bart, > > You are correct that mineral nutrition is the critical dimension of quality > in foods--in terms of health implications, in terms of flavor and in terms > of storing. It is also the critical variable for pest and disease control > in the field and post harvest. The data presented by Steve Driver are the > first I have ever seen (it is not clear what they mean, however -29.82% of > what?) that compare organic and conventional in terms of mineral content. > However, it is mineral proportions that we should have. Ratios like Fe:Zn, > Cu:Mo or Ca:Mg:P can tell us a lot more about what is going on than > absolute amounts. (e.g the same absolute amount of Mo can be optimal or too > low, depending on how much Cu there is, etc.) > > But how do you explain this situation? It is virtually impossible to grow > organic vegetables, grains or fruits (not to mention animals) without > adequate mineral and micronutrient management, as you would be the first to > know. Are you really so sure that organic farmers's in the US have > neglected this aspect so completely? How could they and still produce > commercially? How could mineral nutrient management be worse today than a > decade ago? It doesn't seem possible. It is not possible to grow > organically without adequate mineral management. Could you please explain > this situation further. Until I read your posts I would have bet anything > that organic products would have a more optimal mineral profile. Perhaps > they do, has anyone really looked at it? > > Yesterday you criticized organic farmers for not doing soil tests to > determine mineral status. Conventional soil tests don't give us much > information on mineral status (o its nice ot know pH and OM). P soil tests > are very misleading--we have lots of P in some soils here but the plants > can be showing clear P deficiency. We have found trace analysis of seeds or > plant tissue to be more indicative of what is going on. But these are > expensive and so we try to go more on what the state of the plants and the > kinds of 'weeds', insects, fungi, algas etc. we find can tell us. I would > rather have a test of biological activity of the kind Elaine Ingham offers > than a mineral test of the soil. > > What tests would you recommend? In general, what would you recommend as the > basics of organic mineral nutrition program for grains (corn)? for fruits? > > I agree with you that this aspect is very important and many people are > unaware of it--but succesful organic farmers? They must deal with it somehow. > > Thank you > > Ronald Nigh > Dana, A.C. > Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas > Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) > danamex@mail.internet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 10 00:49:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19915 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:49:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00143 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:19:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29999 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 00:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.42.17.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.42.17]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13384; Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38000F2B.3EA2DBC8@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 20:59:39 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition References: <000401bf1213$918ed9c0$093325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3128 organic fruits will just dry if you keep them too long. others will just rot. Argall Family wrote: > I don't have research data, don't know who does, but I would think that if > you took the carcasses of a 70 year old recently dead with prostate cancer > and a nubile 20 year old just run over by a bus, you may find, with the > accuracy of modern scientific assaying processes, that the two carcasses may > be of comparable mineral content, especially if you trimmed the rough bits > first. I would love to be corrected. > > Bart made the points about soil, which I believe should be the start point. > While our eye is, in the nature of our preoccupations, on our own stomachs, > the sustainability issue starts with soil nutrition. > > Would people prefer, or be as well off nutritionally, on some science > fiction diet of pills providing 'essential nutrition' to the best of current > scientific ability to build such pills? I think the vote is going to be no. > Why then do we suppose that plants and animals depending on the soil can get > by on such thin stuff. I don't know how soil science is conventionally > taught, but I suspect that in the reductionist details, some of the broad > systemic issues may be skipped. My own view is that we would be well served > to commit much more effort to understanding the origins of life not just in > palaeontological terms, but in the relationship between clays, coacervates, > algae, fungi and bacteria, and their extraordinary associations with plant > roots. In other words, to recognise that our dependence on soil and plants > is much more than a nutritional chemical pathway. When we have an ability to > understand better, and describe for popular culture, just what is going on > there, then people will be more aware that plants are very complex systems, > with life properties going beyond crude nutrient assays. We are, again, > preoccupied by our majesty at the top of the food chain; but our processes > for nutrient uptake seem much simpler in many ways than what plants are > doing day by day. > > Hydroponic vegetables allow us to make a couple of points of importance. > Because such plants are generally grown inside buildings, they may not be > vulnerable to insects, and so may not have pesticides on them (I don't > discount the importance of avoiding pesticides, but it's sort of a side > track from the core of what organic growing is about). But the hydroponics > will almost certainly NOT have been exposed to natural, unfiltered light. > And for the most part they are fed on crude nutrient solutions. Hydroponics > look great in the supermarket, but a lot of the 'look' derives from the fact > that confronted by uptake of a strong nutrient solution, plant cells will > seek to take up even more water - hence swollen cells, looking good on the > shelf, (much like older folk can look less wrinkly, by taking hormones that > cause fluid retention). That means that the plant is likely to consist of > more stressed cells and more crude nutrients - so an assay of such a plant > may show up more 'minerals', maybe balanced out by more water. And hey, this > chemically overloaded item is going to keep looking good in the supermarket, > as the water spray in the produce spray keeps up the osmotic frantics. I > tend to be more chemically sensitive than the average person. I get what > feels like a 'nitrate headache' (not so strong, but just the same headache > as I can get taking tiny doses of nitroglycerine, for cramp problems - > angina is the classic use of nitro, but it can also be used in other cases) > from some hydroponic lettuces. Of course, the stressed lettuce only has to > last a few weeks. > > Experiment to suggest - we have done it by accident: buy one organic > lettuce, and one hydroponic lettuce. Put them in the same part of the > fridge. Go away for two weeks. The organic lettuce, in our experience, will > be there, whole and welcoming; the other item will be on the way to becoming > watery sludge. > > Pears, especially nashi, the oriental pear, with even higher water content, > are among the best indicators of difference in taste and keeping quality, as > between conventional and organic. Our own organic nashi have a fresh, > complex flavour. Conventional nashi often seem to have a taste and smell > like a chemical fertiliser bag. I think taste is an excellent indicator of > nutritional value for the individual, far more sophisticated than the > printed info on box. > > Dennis > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 10 16:04:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25280 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:04:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28604 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:46:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f25.hotmail.com [207.82.250.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA28522 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 17080 invoked by uid 0); 10 Oct 1999 19:44:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19991010194424.17079.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.153.172.101 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:44:24 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.153.172.101] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: protein, etc. was RE: goat meat Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:44:24 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3129 My understanding was that a diet (of course not soley based on but inclusive of) corn and legumes eliminated this problem. Anybody know if this is correct? Dependence on legumes >for protein also has problems, as this may impact on thyroid and >mitochondrial performance - go to http://www.infotrieve.com/freemedline/ >and >do a Medline search for 'legume and thyroid' ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 10 16:11:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25625 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01621 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:55:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01571 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:58:26 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.176] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AEFC38000054; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:54:36 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:53:12 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition (Nigh) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3130 On Sat, 09 Oct 1999 19:11:59 -0500, Ronald Nigh wrote: >But how do you explain this situation? It is virtually impossible to grow >organic vegetables, grains or fruits (not to mention animals) without >adequate mineral and micronutrient management You can grow all kinds of stuff in all kinds of goofy soils without paying attention to anything. I've worked with some soils in the Andes that you wouldn't expect to grow much of anything, and they didn't. But they *did* grow something. Not a lot of it, and probably not of very good quality (I didn't check), but it did grow stuff. Similarly, here, people can harvest 20 bu/ac of crummy soybeans and feel they're doing okay because they get $14 a bushel for them. This past summer in my inspection work I logged over one-quarter million bushels of organic soybeans in storage because they weren't of buyer-acceptable quality. >Yesterday you criticized organic farmers for not doing soil tests to >determine mineral status. Conventional soil tests don't give us much >information on mineral status (o its nice ot know pH and OM). P soil tests >are very misleading--we have lots of P in some soils here but the plants >can be showing clear P deficiency. We have found trace analysis of seeds or >plant tissue to be more indicative of what is going on. But these are >expensive and so we try to go more on what the state of the plants and the >kinds of 'weeds', insects, fungi, algas etc. we find can tell us. I would >rather have a test of biological activity of the kind Elaine Ingham offers >than a mineral test of the soil. SFI's testing (Elaine Ingham, etc) does not yet have any predictive power for yield, or even soil health. We sent her lab a series of paired organic & conventional samples from neighboring farms using roughly the same rotation. SFI was unable to come up with any significant differences. The only pattern that possibly emerged was that heavy duty chemical farms had a "better" fungal ratio. Go figure. SFI are completely unable to demonstrate an correlation between their numbers and yield, so I tell farmers to save their money. Nice idea, brought to market a few years too soon. >What tests would you recommend? In general, what would you recommend as the >basics of organic mineral nutrition program for grains (corn)? for fruits? I use Midwest Labs in Omaha. Their consistency with split samples is excellent, and their interlab agreement (same test basis) is also good. Their overall CEC numbers tend to be low (and have been that way for 20 years) but it's a function of the way they calculate that value. Very complete test for $22. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 10 17:31:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26296 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13954 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:11:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13930 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.176] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A0D54D5003E; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:10:45 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 21:09:22 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Seaweed and Fish for minerals (Rateaver) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3131 Bargyla --- I can't agree with you on your two major points. First, few of the people I inspect actually use seaweed or fish. This sample is biased owing to its location in the cash-crop heartland. I know that the hort folks use more. Second, fish and seaweed just don't get the job done when it comes to minerals, even in a horticultural operation. The quantities are simply insufficient. When I was in commercial-scale organic production, I used both fish and seaweed in the *greenhouse.* We also used seaweed to great effect as a pre-transplant soak, but that is hormonal and not mineral in mode of action. The only time I would use fish in the field was when I had some left over that I wanted to get rid of. More on fish below. I also threw liquid seaweed into my foliar sprays if I had some left over, mostly because I grew up 3 km from the Atlantic and I like the way seaweed smells. Properly timed applications of seaweed are helpful in a number of horticultural field situations --- concentrating tuber set in potatoes, for example --- but again, this is hormonal, not mineral. The hormones in seaweed may even help tall fescue and other pasture crops absorb soil nutrients more effectively, as well as reduce some of the problems associated with grazing endophyte-infected fescue (Vivien Allen's work at Texas Tech). As a *source* of minerals, however, liquid seaweed is virtually useless agronomically at economically viable application rates. As just one example, assume a seaweed extract contains 0.1% zinc ---this is generous. Assume 2 gal/ac application rate (20 L/ha) --- this is four times normal application rates. This application rate will bring to the system about 0.3 ounces of zinc per acre, or less than 0.01 ppm against normal background levels of 2 ppm, and I'm nudging the calculations in favour of the seaweed by just about an order of magnitude, without getting into the whole topic of the inefficiency of foliar absorption. As a source of zinc and/or anything else, seaweed just isn't worth what it costs. If seaweed applications will pay their way (they often do) it is on their role as a source of carefully timed exogenous hormones and growth regulators. Fish solubles, on the other hand, are purchased and applied as a source of nitrogen. Except in highly specialised situations (like a greenhouse) applications of fish emulsion make no agronomic or economic sense. Typical fish solubles contain about 5% nitrogen and weighs 9.7 lbs/gallon. Let's call it ten. Two gallons of fish provides one pound of nitrogen. Depending on source and volume, fish solubles cost $4 to $8 per gallon at the farm. That is $8 to $16 per pound of nitrogen, folks! Typical farm application rates are 2 to 10 gallons per acre, providing 1 to 5 pounds of nitrogen. One decent thunderstorm will give you 3 to 5 lb/ac nitrogen and doesn't cost $24 to $80 per acre. While we're looking at organic nitrogen prices, here are some comparisons. Fish solubles @ $6/gal = $12.00/lb N Purchased compost @ $20/yard = $4.00/lb N Fish meal @ $450/ton = $2.25/lb N Alfalfa meal @ $130/ton = $2.10/lb N Blood meal @ $450/ton = $2.10/lb N Feather meal @ $500/ton = $1.80/lb N Dry chicken manure @ $130/ton = $1.65/lb N Soybean meal @ $200/ton = $1.45/lb N On-farm compost @ $2/yard = $0.40/lb N Alfalfa plowdown @ $35/ac = $0.35/lb N Sweetclover plowdown @ $25/ac = $0.20/lb N Conventional nitrogen costs between $0.15 and $0.30 per pound, depending on source. If there's any logic to using fish solubles as a source of nitrogen in most organic production systems, it has so far escaped me. Bart PS --- As an aside, if anyone wants to know the details of fish meal and fish solubles production/manufacture, contact me off list. I have inspected five different menhaden plants and can probably tell you more about the process than you ever wanted to know. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 10 19:08:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28159 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 19:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08597 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:52:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.hurontel.on.ca (mail.hurontel.on.ca [216.46.129.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08593 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (clifford-130.wcl.on.ca [216.46.132.130]) by mail.hurontel.on.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00730 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <022001bf1373$1d0b2660$82842ed8@oemcomputer> From: "Dave Lewington" To: "Sanet" Subject: Re: Avery Ventura (to Misha) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:59:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3132 Hello, this is my first post to sanet, I hope it works! :) Ann wrote: >Conventional ag has lobbied quite effectively to introduce their position, >values, and practices into elementary school and up, at least in Canada and I >would expect here as well. My son would bring home coupons for subsidized >milk, fridge magnets, pencils, etc. and brochures - all courtesy of the Dairy >Farmers of Ontario. There is an entire, institutional program for 5th or 6th >grade kids to go "to the country" and learn about (conventional) agriculture >in Ontario - crafted with the active involvement of mainstream ag >organizations. > >I don't think that this is a bad idea, exposing urban kids to farm realities, >but it is certainly one-sided - and we have been left out. Is there scope for >adding our contribution to such programs? Should a separate initiative be >undertaken? Should we be making and providing videos, interactive CD games, >booklets, farm tours, or what - to schools regarding organic, ecological >and/or sustainable farming? Other ideas? Ann I've been involved with educating some of these kids at what was called Slice of Huron. And what Ann says is correct, conventional agriculture is presented as if there is no other way. I was involved with the pork producer's part of the display, which included a farrowing crate with a litter of pigs. Some of the kids would ask why the tails were cut off of the piglets. The conventional ag answer would be "to prevent vices" or something like that, but the actual fact is that pigs tails are cut off because we do not provide the proper facilities to meet the welfare needs of the pigs, and have to cut off their tails to prevent them from chewing on each other's tails. Doesn't sound quite as nice as "to prevent vices" does it? The leaders in the pork industry present it as if it is the only way to raise hogs, rather than saying it is only one way, and that there are more animal welfare friendly options out there. Many farmers are too quick to spew out the corporate defense of certain systems, rather than actually thinking about, and questioning ourselves on why we do things the way we do. Dave To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 10 23:38:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01566 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25779 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:16:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25699 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:26:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov, "'richmo@indy.net'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov, "'mmuller@iatp.org'" Subject: RE: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:26:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3133 i guess at this point i've forgotten the details of william crosswhite's original notion . . . my sense at the time was that he was suggesting that farmers would be compensated for the value of the crop lost because their fields were allowed to remain covered with flood water; i think this was also the sense rich molini had . . . i gather that mark muller had in mind that farm fields would be managed so that water infiltrated into groundwater and aquifers rather than running off the surface . . . two things occur to me first, following mark muller's view, i guess we would have to bring some soil scientists and geologists into the discussion . . . my sense is that it does not take long for water that has infiltrated to move to the closest body of open water second, following what i understood was the crosswhite and molini view, i think this misunderstands farmers' views of themselves . . . while in general they are happy to be altruistic in a crisis, their sense of their self-worth comes to a significant extent from being good farmers -- raising good crops in sound ways . . . saying to a farmer that this year we are going to pay you to let water sit on your land deprives the farmer of the meaningful and significant aspects of his/her occupation cheers, craig craig k harris dept of sociology 429b berkey hall michigan state university east lansing michigan 48824-1111 u.s.a. tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Rich Molini[SMTP:richmo@indy.net] > Reply To: richmo@indy.net > Sent: Tuesday 05 October 1999 16:08 PM > To: Crosswhite.William@epamail.epa.gov > Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Manale.Andrew@epamail.epa.gov > Subject: Re: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland > > WILLIAM, > I don't know of many farmers who are interested in keeping their > land > under water for even short periods of time. Ostensibly, this is another > of many band aid approachs to the real problem. > That problem is that since most watersheds ,say in the midwest, are > probably over 80 per cent agriculture and most of these farms are not > interested in increasing infiltration and/or water holding capacity you > are going to experience an increase in frequency and severity of > flooding. Your agency should be a proponent in promoting organic > agriculture which does exactly what was previously enumerated and what > conventional agribusiness growers totally disregard. > If I have a problem , I prefer to address it rather than its > symptoms. > later, > -- > Rich Molini > 2419 East 281st Street > Atlanta, Indiana 46031 Phone and Fax 317-984-9600 > http://mypage.goplay.com/eiofarm/ > > > Great concept William, > > Storage of flood water on farmland is another example of the > multi-functional potential of farmland. About a year and a half ago the > Blue Earth River Basin Initiative in Southern Minnesota and the Institute > for Agriculture and Trade Policy facilitated a policy discussion on > on-farm water storage with mostly farmers and agricultural consultants. > > We found that overloaded drainage systems are an important scenario to > target. In southern Minnesota many of the drainage systems are over 50 > years old, and with more tiling capturing more water, some systems are > beyond their limit. In the Rice Lake Watershed in Fairbault County, a > water storage/drainage system has been proposed to reroute water away from > the overloaded drainage system. I do not know the current status of that > proposal. > > On-farm flood water storage is another example of a large-scale > environmental problem--like climate change and nutrient management--that > can be partially mitigated with better soil quality, reduced tillage, > cover > crops, and other sustainable practices. > > Mark > > Mark Muller > Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy > 2105 First Avenue South > Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 > phone: (612) 870-3420 > fax: (612) 870-4846 > email: mmuller@iatp.org > website: http://www.iatp.org/ > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 09:58:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07043 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18006 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:19:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex1.theitgroup.com (itcrp.com [207.247.16.114]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17993 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by torrex1.theitgroup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <4VJAAJ21>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:17:46 -0700 Message-ID: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE494323@KNOXEX1> From: "Cole, Ralph" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: 8-week chickens, rabbits Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 06:21:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3134 In partial response to the recent chicken and meat fat posts: Pastured Poultry: There are several ways to grow pastured poultry. We buy the day old hybrid varieties, brood them for 3 weeks on grain with kelp, probiotic, and OG minerals, then they go on pasture for 5 weeks. We dress them at 8 weeks with dressed weights running about 5.5 pounds. They are big healthy birds with clean livers. At 9-10 weeks, they dress out to about 8 pounds. Our turkeys dressed out (this weekend) to 12-18 pounds at 14 weeks age, same management as the chickens. In our experience, the population density in the pens has the biggest impact on growth rate (within a specific poultry strain). Fat in Meat: Rabbit is supposed to be the lowest fat meat available from a land animal. Rabbits are also highly productive on low inputs. Rabbit fryers butcher at 8 weeks of age, too. But if you agree with Sally Fallon, the total fat is unimportant. Or I should say, it isn't the nemesis it is made out to be, and is actually vital to human health. Against my 17 years as a vegetarian, I tend to agree. Grace to you. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 11:09:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08035 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25201 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:43:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us (infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us [204.73.64.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25146 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from morris.ars.usda.gov (mail.mrsars.usda.gov [199.5.254.150]) by infolink.infolink.morris.mn.us (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA04741 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:41:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dommorrs-Message_Server by morris.ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:43:53 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:43:26 -0500 From: "Lynne Carpenter-Boggs" To: , Subject: Re: More than PR? industry action on Kyoto, C sequestration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id KAA25149 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3135 I don't know about BP Amoco, but I know why Monsanto is investing in studying carbon sequestration in soil. Monsanto is very pro-no-till because no-till farming requires, especially in the first 5-10 years, significantly more herbicides (say "Roundup") than farming systems that include tillage. No-till is a wonderful thing, and even with the increased herbicide input it is a much more productive and environment-friendly system than currently practiced in many places. BUT be assured that Monsanto does nothing purely for the public good. If it makes them money, they support it. Very simple. Maybe this seemingly sad fact of life should be taken advantage of more often. The more successful environmental groups and campaigns do not appeal to industries purely from an ethical viewpoint. Doing things the right way can often mean doing things a more profitable way. Don't expect an entity that survives on profit to give money away for no reason, but GIVE them a reason and watch the corporate machine go to work for your goal. Lynne Carpenter-Boggs USDA-ARS 803 Iowa Ave. Morris, MN 56267 320-589-3411 x141 FAX 320-589-3787 lcboggs@morris.ars.usda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 12:47:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09679 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03701 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:10:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03639 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:08:40 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D01953AB4@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Webb, Kevin" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Nutritional studies of local food? Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:08:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3136 All the posts on the nutrition of organic vs non-organic foods has reminded me that we have been wondering if there are studies into the nutrtional benefits of local foods. I would assume that local foods, by virtue of being fresher (which is admittedly not a given), would be higher in vitamin and mineral content; I haven't seen any documentation of this, however. Anyone know of any studies confirming this and/or other potential health/nutrtional benefits of local foods? Thanks in advance, Kevin Kevin Webb Food Circles Networking Project Department of Rural Sociology University of Missouri-Columbia 105 Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 (573) 882-3776 [573] 882=1473 (fax) webbk@missouri.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 12:51:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09731 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10297 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:18:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.a001.sprintmail.com (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10118 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP252.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.14]) by crow.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05350 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38020E93.1AFBBC09@sprintmail.com> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:21:40 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3137 There's been a lot of questions and answers on this thread. Maybe my limited knowledge of the subject would help some. At the Southern SAWG Conference in Memphis about 2 years ago, a farm consultant did a demonstration of Brix testing- measuring the amount of sugar in fruit with a refractometer; there is a direct correlation between sugar content and mineral content. So, the higher the sugar, the higher the mineral content. He had an organically grown yellow squash he bought that morning from a health food store and a chemically grown one from a supermarket. The chemically grown squash had a much higher sugar content and thus, mineral content. The crowd was perplexed. People around me were mumbling that it couldn't be right because, "Everybody knows organic has a higher nutritional content." What this showed was that the chemical farmer had a better mineral balance in her/his soil than the organic farmer- by luck or effort, we don't know. (The factor not measured here was the amount of toxic chemicals and metals in the squash.) There are 2 basics facts about minerals in the soil and plant uptake that we just can't ignore: 1.) If the soil doesn't contain the mineral, plants can't take it up. (Pretty obvious.) 2.) If there is too much of one mineral, it will suppress the uptake of other minerals by plants. (For example, excessive calcium in a soil will block the uptake of iron, even if there is sufficient iron in the soil.) That's the chemistry part of soil. But there is another factor we know less about- the biology of the soil. What we do know is that where you have low levels of minerals and a high soil biodiversity (through good soil management practices and sufficient organic matter), the plants have higher mineral content. This happens through having a large population of plant nutrient cyclers and plant symbionts present in the soil, making the scarce minerals more available or "feeding" them directly to the plants. This soil biology can also "buffer" the mineral imbalances and the uptake of heavy metals. Plants will also take up non-nutritive ions (i.e., heavy metals and other ions) and can substitute these for plant nutrient minerals to survive. So, those organic farmers who pay attention to good management practices for their soil and maintain an adequate food source for their soil biology (organic matter) produce higher nutritional quality food than organic farmers who don't. And non-organic farmers who practice good soil management, balance the minerals in their soil and add organic matter do better than either on mineral content. (Given the same soils and the condition that the chemical farmer is not destroying the soil biology.) And, an organic farmer following the same practices of soil management and mineral balancing can do as well or better than the non-organic farmer for nutrient content without the chemical residues. There are areas of our country where recent geologic events (glaciation in the Midwest, volcanic in Hawaii, fault zones on the West coast and Middle Tennessee) have remineralized the soils naturally and where plants have access to minerals. Then there are zones where temperatures and high rainfall have depleted the soil minerals (Southeast US, with the exception of fault zones). So, the soil type and history has a lot to do with plant nutrition. But, we can boost the organic matter and add minerals in a balanced way to convert minerally "poor" soils to produce minerally "rich" crops. How to balance minerals is another story. I think I've been going on long enough. By the way, I have been impressed with how many sanetters have an appreciation for, and knowledge about, this subject. I share Bart's experience about, "...the overwhelming majority of organic farmers don't 'get' this any better than their conventional colleagues..." I have yet to meet another organic farmer in the Southeast who uses some form of mineral management beyond NPK- and this is a geographic area where it is so critical for plant and human nutrition! Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 14:27:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11601 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22754 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:56:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22732 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19415 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38023236.93CB6FD4@uoguelph.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:53:43 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: meat quality, was ... the organic landscape References: <000301bf120d$e386cb80$093325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3138 Folks: let me thank Dennis for his helpful input. I would second his thoughts on handling, in particular on meat quality. This is one area where grass-fed stock may be at a distinct disadvantage, because they may well be more stressed than feedlot cattle at the process of loading, unloading, mixing/sorting etc. simply because they are not accustomed to the concentration of stock, proximity to humans etc. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 14:41:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11937 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02944 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:15:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.33]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02938 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19700 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380236B4.7C3D25A1@uoguelph.ca> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:12:53 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: meat quality References: <000301bf120d$e386cb80$093325cb@p2> <38023236.93CB6FD4@uoguelph.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3139 Folks: just a quick note - there is a superb and lengthy treatment of the various effects of grass, breed, management, handling, etc. on meat quality in the latest issue of Stockman Grass Farmer. It includes quite a bit that I didn't know, particularly about the timing of laying down of fat vs. lean, and implications for timing of diet quality changes. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 15:24:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13075 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23744 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:54:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23729 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11474 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QWP3JD3>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:52:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" , Sanet Subject: RE: Ruminants Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:52:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3140 Paul: I think you would do well to try your hand with a few goats as a small garden-marketer. They are more cost and labor effective in the long run. Goats are much more efficient milk producers (lb. feed per lb. milk produced) than are cows or larger ruminants; require less space; require less tending. The initial outlay is normally much less also. They will also thrive better where others won't. A goat prefers scrub to good pasture (mine would never tough good grass, but would kill over poison ivy and rose of Sharon. The drawback - a cow won't jump a fence... Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. It comes bundled with the software. ___________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer [mailto:ps@erinet.com] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 8:42 AM To: Sanet Subject: Rumenants Hi all, If the small garden marketer cannot have cattle(dairy or beef), is it possible that many of them could have a goat or two. Doesn't have to be a cow, just a rumanant. Right??? Match the rumenant with the land. Someone want to help me out with this? Also one other thing. Can anyone explain to me why it is that they don't recommend any meat scraps in the compost? Thanks, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 15:35:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13299 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27520 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:05:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27497 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:05:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:08:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.145] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A4C6B9180050; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:04:38 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:03:18 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Nutritional studies of local food? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3141 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:08:38 -0500, Webb, Kevin wrote: >All the posts on the nutrition of organic vs non-organic foods has reminded >me that we have been wondering if there are studies into the nutrtional >benefits of local foods. I would assume that local foods, by virtue of being >fresher (which is admittedly not a given), would be higher in vitamin and >mineral content; I haven't seen any documentation of this, however. Anyone >know of any studies confirming this and/or other potential health/nutrtional >benefits of local foods? In most cases the maximum vitamin levels will be found in *frozen* vegetables (broccoli, peas, corn, beans, spinach, etc.) because the delay from harvest to the IQF is measured in hours, not days. Sometimes the total elapsed time from field to freezer is under an hour. That is to say, of all broccoli on the market, frozen brocs will have higher vitamin levels than other types of broccoli. In my experience as an inspector, the prevailing situation with growers serving local markets is that their cold chains are totally inadequate for maintaining product quality. In doesn't have to be that way, but at the moment it usually is. By the way, freshness (or lack thereof) doesn't have any significant impact on mineral levels as measured on a dry matter basis. Vitamins and enzymes only. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 15:36:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13313 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26710 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:03:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26663 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:03:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11652 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QWP3JD0>; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:02:15 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" , Sanet Subject: RE: Disease and Healthy Food Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:01:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3142 Paul: Probably a combination of 'a' and 'c' mixed with comments from an earlier post regarding the fact that antibiotics have 'killed off' many of the bacteria that were sensitive to them, allowing the resistant strains to multiply and flourish. There are actually very few 'new' diseases in the world, just stronger outbreaks of the old ones. Even HTLV3 (or HIV) appears to be a variation off the African Green Monkey virus which has been known since early this century. The fact that we are seeing more diseases jumping species could also be through the fact that since we have decided to contaminate the environment to the extent we have, the conditions which were good for the natural controls against certain virii and bacteria are no longer optimal. Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. It comes bundled with the software. ___________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmitmeyer [mailto:ps@erinet.com] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:31 AM To: Sanet Subject: Disease and Healthy Food Hi all, Something has been nagging at me for quite sometime. When people say "There are more and more diseases all the time", is it because: a) we couldn't identify them before b) we truely are a sicker nation due to sicker foods. c) we are living longer so as we get older we are more prone to other disease d) previosly people were thought to die from "old age"(somewhat like answer in a.) e) we have more diseases because people would have died from some of the other more common diseases first. f) all the above. The reason I bring this up is in an earlier post, there was a question about the nutritional values in food, organic vs conventional. Is there any way of looking up statistics and comparing health since the introduction of the chemical world? I am lead to believe from earlier post and other inputs from othere people that one answer "f" is the best but that answer "b" is a huge contributor. Comments please? Thanks, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 19:32:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17050 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA20123 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:08:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20119 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16210 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA27226; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:05:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1c-33.ix.netcom.com(209.110.250.33) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027210; Mon Oct 11 18:05:12 1999 Message-ID: <00eb01bf143d$35d252c0$21fa6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Walker Bennett" , "'Paul Schmitmeyer'" , "Sanet" Subject: Re: Ruminants Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:06:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3143 Walker wrote:>over poison ivy and rose of Sharon. > The drawback - a cow won't jump a fence... Just had to put my two cents worth in here, I am not disagreeing that on the whole goats may be a better first farm animal. But beginners should beware if you think cows are never on the wrong side of the fence. I have chased more than one cow back into the pasture. I guess I would agree that cows don't usually "try" to get out. But will if the opportunity arises. Shorted electric fence, broken fence etc. I adore our farm animals, can't wait to build a barn so I have an excuse to "acquire" more. But they can be royal pains in the butt. And for all the talk as to their benefit to a small farm, I very much understand why a small grower feels he/she can't deal with one more chore. Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 19:38:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17105 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25874 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:17:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25812 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gwsmtp.ohsu.edu (gwsmtp.ohsu.edu [137.53.4.219]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA16363 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gwiadom1-Message_Server by gwsmtp.ohsu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:15:57 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:15:37 -0700 From: "Kendra Wise" To: Subject: Guinea fowl? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA25820 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3144 Does anyone on this list raise guinea fowl? I've been hearing more and more about them as good additions to small homesteads, and am wondering if anyone here has any first-hand experience they'd like to share. I'm interested in a diversified farm (it's a ways off yet, but learning is nonstop!). Specifically, do guinea fowl mix well with other poultry, or do they outcompete chickens, geese and turkeys? How do they do in cold, wet climates? Kendra Wise wiseke@ohsu.edu Portland, OR To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 20:05:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17378 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12617 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:45:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12578 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx (inter338.internet.com.mx [200.23.254.128]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA29361; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:38:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991011183603.00764944@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:36:03 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Quality: organic and nutrition revisted Cc: kentlee.lnk@ispi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id TAA12602 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3145 On Oct 6 Steve Driver wrote: >"The Healing Power of Minerals, Special Nutrients and Trace Elements" >by Paul Bergner (1997, Prima Publishing, Rocklin, CA) includes USDA >figures that show a decline in mineral and vitamin content of several >fruits and vegetables between 1914, 1963, and 1992. Table 1 is a >summary of mineral decreases in fruits and vegetables over a 30-year >period, adapted from Bergner's book. > >Table 1. Average changes in the mineral content of some fruits and >vegetables*, 1963-1992 > >Mineral Average % Change > >Calcium -29.82 >Iron -32.00 >Magnesium -21.08 >Phosphorus -11.09 >Potassium -6.48 > >* Fruits and vegetables measured: oranges, apples, bananas, >carrots, potatoes, corn, tomatoes, celery, romaine lettuce, broccoli, >iceberg lettuce, collard greens, and chard > > Bart later repeated this table and wrote: >Given these declines. Given organic vs. conventional studies from the >late '80s that were (at best) inconclusive. Given the high dedication >to organic production principles at the time (ie, money was not the >motive as it so often is these days) ... the organic >movement/community/industry should go into a corner and hide from >embarassment. > However, it is important to point out that this table does not indicate a comparison between organic and conventional produce. It talks about changes in some crops over time. In the context of the discussion, I understoond Bart to imply that this table indicated a decrease in the mineral content of organic foods. This is not the case (and this is not, apparently, what Bart meant). It is not clear what this table means at all, in fact. Since it reports percentage changes only, then the question is if these minerals decreased, what were they replaced with in the total 100%? If the figures are dry weight (no indication in the table if the measurements are based on dry weight or wet) then we know that it is not due to the "bulking up with water" that Bart referred to. It could be due to the increase in carbohydrates (at the expense of ash content) associated with the shift to "high-yielding varieties" that respond to chemical fertilizer. If this is the case then these figures would not be applicable to organic products at all. Also, ash content is almost always expressed on a dry weight basis, which means the higher ash content of organic foods (also referred to by Bart) is not due to water content of conventionals but probably due to loss of minerals at the expense of carbohydrates. This is the best indication I can think of that organic foods might be of higher quality than conventional (of course it depends on which minerals and their proportions.) As my freind Kent Anderson pointed out, if grain were seriously classified in the US in terms of quality (protein content and mineral content and balance, for example) then most of the obscene grain surpluses Ann Clark referred to the other day would disappear overnight. Much of this grain is now dumped on other countries at subsidized rates. In Mexico the tortilla industry now (since 1994) uses mostly US pig corn to make tortilla flour, putting the Mexican farmer with his high quality tortilla corn out of business. This leads to misery in the countryside and the loss of rural culture and crop diversity (more folks heading North). We're eating junk down here because NAFTA says the two are "substantially equivalent" and therefore Mexico has to buy it because its cheaper. That's free trade for you. The movement for an organic tortilla in Mexico is mostly not about pesticides but about quality and the rights of people to demand quality of the food system. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 11 12:06:02 1999 -0400 Received: from net.bio.net (net.bio.net [198.94.52.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08979 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA24647 for symbios-list; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA24641; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910111606.JAA24641@net.bio.net> To: nobody@net.bio.net X-Really-To: symbios@net.bio.net Newsgroups: bionet.biology.symbiosis From: Laurence Evans Subject: bee & the flower Date: Thu, Oct 7, 1999, 11:33 PM Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3146 "Natural selection decreases the intensity of interaction between two associated species through their diversification (into different species) as this is an economic advantage. Specialization and diversification are an adaptive advantage, improving survival potential. The mechanism of such specialisation and diversification will be similar to that which adapts some invertebrates to the annual change of its food resource, so that they have evolved a period of growth and a period of dormancy. Similar too is the stimulus to migrate found in some birds. I have interpreted the relationship where, for both species, intraspecific (within species) competition inhibits the growth of a population more than interspecific (between species) interactions as an association of interdependence. I have recognised the evolution of interdependence and coadaptation. An interactive-factor of zero implies no interaction or no measurable impact in one direction of the interaction. The intensity of the intraspecific interactions, measured in energy terms has a value of 1. I compare all other interactions with this. Between 0 (no interaction) and 1 (interactions equal to intraspecific interactions) exists the realm of coadaptation, if both species have an interactive-factor (i-factor) of less than 1 for the other species. This is the window of opportunity that nature uses and leads to holism. This is what I model and is the source of compatibility. The Lotka Volterra formula restricts one strictly to a consideration of INTERACTIVE EFFECTS or the interactive regime between the two species. Niche separation may be so that the two species depend upon completely different food resources, nesting sites etc. There would then be no interaction, the i-factor being 0 and the two K-values (carrying capacity) would be independent variables. If i is above 0 the two species interact and share some resource and their K-values must intersect to an extent. Biotic relationships, under the conventional scheme of the Lotka-Volterra model, are represented by a competition coefficient which is positive (+) if the interaction effects an increase to population growth and negative (-) if it effects a decrease to population growth or 0 if no effect is felt. As such, this method allocates ++ as the effect of the bee-flower interaction or mutualistic relationships, with both competition coefficients being positive and a predatory or parasitic relationship as +-. Conventionally, the model's e interactive coefficient is a measure of the effect of one species upon POPULATION GROWTH of another. This is difficult to quantify. My adaptation of this model defines the i-factor as a relative energetic cost. The i-factor determines the r-factor. Evolution through natural selection has defined intraspecific behaviour that is an adaptation to the environment and determines the reproductive output (r-factor) of the species. As natural selection selects for the fittest, and those that perpetuate are the fittest, what is found is fitness defined by the i-factor. Interaction with one's own species gets a value of one, but represents the average energy expended through such interactions under normal conditions. This is a one to one interaction. WITHIN THE TOTAL SYSTEM THERE ARE MANY SUCH INTERACTIONS, THE NUMBER RELATED TO THE POPULATION DENSITY. This may give a clue as to the mechanism of self-regulation of the population density. An interaction is an energetic cost while the habitat provides an energetic return. They exclude weaker interactors when the effort to maintain intraspecific interactions uses more energy than the animal gains from its habitat. The adjustment can thus be a natural mechanism dictated by inherited behaviour determining interaction rates and intensities, the average energy expended to maintain daily activities and the return in energy as food. Without the intraspecific interactions the animal may have survived and had time to gather more food. Interactions may therefore lead to animals maintaining a population density below the carrying capacity of the environment. By definition, an ecosystem's inhabitants evolve together, so natural selection will favour lower i-factors for each species within the ecosystem. This results through the coevolution of associated species. Lower i-factors mean greater energetic efficiency for the whole ecosystem and therefore greater stability. They have achieved a decrease in the i-factor of an organism experimentally. Forces of natural selection shift because of the interactions between species that share niche space. Coadaptation occurs as each interactor will be adapting to the other's presence. Holism emerges from the complex system as a result of interactions and natural selection. " From: http://members.xoom.com/ecotao/conc_summ.htm From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 11 12:06:02 1999 -0400 Received: from net.bio.net (net.bio.net [198.94.52.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08979 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA24647 for symbios-list; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA24641; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910111606.JAA24641@net.bio.net> To: nobody@net.bio.net X-Really-To: symbios@net.bio.net Newsgroups: bionet.biology.symbiosis From: Laurence Evans Subject: bee & the flower Date: Thu, Oct 7, 1999, 11:33 PM Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3147 "Natural selection decreases the intensity of interaction between two associated species through their diversification (into different species) as this is an economic advantage. Specialization and diversification are an adaptive advantage, improving survival potential. The mechanism of such specialisation and diversification will be similar to that which adapts some invertebrates to the annual change of its food resource, so that they have evolved a period of growth and a period of dormancy. Similar too is the stimulus to migrate found in some birds. I have interpreted the relationship where, for both species, intraspecific (within species) competition inhibits the growth of a population more than interspecific (between species) interactions as an association of interdependence. I have recognised the evolution of interdependence and coadaptation. An interactive-factor of zero implies no interaction or no measurable impact in one direction of the interaction. The intensity of the intraspecific interactions, measured in energy terms has a value of 1. I compare all other interactions with this. Between 0 (no interaction) and 1 (interactions equal to intraspecific interactions) exists the realm of coadaptation, if both species have an interactive-factor (i-factor) of less than 1 for the other species. This is the window of opportunity that nature uses and leads to holism. This is what I model and is the source of compatibility. The Lotka Volterra formula restricts one strictly to a consideration of INTERACTIVE EFFECTS or the interactive regime between the two species. Niche separation may be so that the two species depend upon completely different food resources, nesting sites etc. There would then be no interaction, the i-factor being 0 and the two K-values (carrying capacity) would be independent variables. If i is above 0 the two species interact and share some resource and their K-values must intersect to an extent. Biotic relationships, under the conventional scheme of the Lotka-Volterra model, are represented by a competition coefficient which is positive (+) if the interaction effects an increase to population growth and negative (-) if it effects a decrease to population growth or 0 if no effect is felt. As such, this method allocates ++ as the effect of the bee-flower interaction or mutualistic relationships, with both competition coefficients being positive and a predatory or parasitic relationship as +-. Conventionally, the model's e interactive coefficient is a measure of the effect of one species upon POPULATION GROWTH of another. This is difficult to quantify. My adaptation of this model defines the i-factor as a relative energetic cost. The i-factor determines the r-factor. Evolution through natural selection has defined intraspecific behaviour that is an adaptation to the environment and determines the reproductive output (r-factor) of the species. As natural selection selects for the fittest, and those that perpetuate are the fittest, what is found is fitness defined by the i-factor. Interaction with one's own species gets a value of one, but represents the average energy expended through such interactions under normal conditions. This is a one to one interaction. WITHIN THE TOTAL SYSTEM THERE ARE MANY SUCH INTERACTIONS, THE NUMBER RELATED TO THE POPULATION DENSITY. This may give a clue as to the mechanism of self-regulation of the population density. An interaction is an energetic cost while the habitat provides an energetic return. They exclude weaker interactors when the effort to maintain intraspecific interactions uses more energy than the animal gains from its habitat. The adjustment can thus be a natural mechanism dictated by inherited behaviour determining interaction rates and intensities, the average energy expended to maintain daily activities and the return in energy as food. Without the intraspecific interactions the animal may have survived and had time to gather more food. Interactions may therefore lead to animals maintaining a population density below the carrying capacity of the environment. By definition, an ecosystem's inhabitants evolve together, so natural selection will favour lower i-factors for each species within the ecosystem. This results through the coevolution of associated species. Lower i-factors mean greater energetic efficiency for the whole ecosystem and therefore greater stability. They have achieved a decrease in the i-factor of an organism experimentally. Forces of natural selection shift because of the interactions between species that share niche space. Coadaptation occurs as each interactor will be adapting to the other's presence. Holism emerges from the complex system as a result of interactions and natural selection. " From: http://members.xoom.com/ecotao/conc_summ.htm From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 11 08:47:57 1999 -0400 Received: from net.bio.net (net.bio.net [198.94.52.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05890 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA03673 for symbios-list; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA03662; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910111248.FAA03662@net.bio.net> To: nobody@net.bio.net X-Really-To: symbios@net.bio.net Newsgroups: bionet.biology.symbiosis From: Consult-Eco Subject: Bioidiversity, Biology, Conservation, Ecology Date: Sun, Oct 10, 1999, 3:55 PM Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3148 Please check out the following sites: http://www.wildlifetrust.org.uk/cheshire/index.htm and http://www.consult-eco.ndirect.co.uk/wncf/index.htm Thank you. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve J. McWilliam - Invertebrate & Ecological Survey, Identification, Education & Training, Computing & Recording Tel: 01928-573697 (24 hour answer-phone service) E-Mail: stevemc@consult-eco.ndirect.co.uk 4 Priory Close, Halton Village, Runcorn, Cheshire, WA7 2BN Check Out: http://www.consult-eco.ndirect.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 11 08:15:30 1999 -0400 Received: from net.bio.net (net.bio.net [198.94.52.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05511 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA29243 for symbios-list; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA29238; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910111213.FAA29238@net.bio.net> To: nobody@net.bio.net X-Really-To: symbios@net.bio.net Newsgroups: bionet.biology.symbiosis From: Northern Lites Subject: Find time to visit Date: Sat, Oct 9, 1999, 3:01 AM Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3149 To all Enthusiast in Symbioses- Research: Please visit the Molecular Analysis of Symbiosis Webpage at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6218/index.html Thanks a lot. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 11 08:11:09 1999 -0400 Received: from net.bio.net (net.bio.net [198.94.52.98]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05465 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 08:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA29252 for symbios-list; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by net.bio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA29246; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 05:13:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910111213.FAA29246@net.bio.net> To: nobody@net.bio.net X-Really-To: symbios@net.bio.net Newsgroups: bionet.biology.symbiosis From: Laurence Evans Subject: symbiosis & holism Date: Fri, Oct 8, 1999, 11:16 PM Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3150 Here's some symbiosis: http://members.xoom.com/ecotao/index.htm LE From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 21:23:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18074 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03150 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:04:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03094 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuttle.kansas.net (IDENT:root@tuttle.kansas.net [199.240.130.11]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17779 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uymfdlvk (pm3-131.rrl.kansas.net [199.240.131.131]) by tuttle.kansas.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA27004 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:58:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199910120058.TAA27004@tuttle.kansas.net> From: "Charlie Griffin" To: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:01:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Guinea fowl? In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3151 Kendra, there have been some lengthier discussions in the past, which you might find by searching the sanet archive. I have them, and I think they've been a great addition. They are hardy and self- reliant. They have substantially reduced the ticks and grasshoppers around the farmyard area. They are not hard at all on the garden, except for dustbaths in the loose soil when seedlings are just coming up. They do a lot better with predators than chickens, altho they can still be picked off by bobcats and owls occasionally. They aren't very good at hatching and raising their clutches, so I prefer to gather the eggs and hatch them under hens or in an incubator. When raised by hens, they learn to come in to the hen house to roost, at least during colder weather, and often to lay their eggs in the nestboxes. Ours fly in and out of the chicken yard as they wish. If you didn't want them to do that, you can always trim their wing feathers. And they taste good to eat, somewhat more like a pheasant or other wilder game bird compared to chickens. We eat their eggs just as we do chicken eggs. They're the same, except guinea eggs have a very hard thick shell. Drawbacks....some people don't like their noise. Ours haven't bothered us much. Your farmyard layout will determine a lot of that. They may roam too far, being at greater risk of predation. Our toms have occasionally started picking on specific roosters badly, but chickens may do that too. The keets (chicks) seem pretty fragile when they are little. So, yes ours mix well with other poultry and they're worth a lot during springs when the ticks are bad, like this year was, and summers then the grasshoppers are bad, like this one. I can't speak to how they handle wet climates. Let me know if you have more specific questions and I'll try to help if I can. Charlie Griffin Manhattan, KS > Does anyone on this list raise guinea fowl? I've been hearing more and > more about them as good additions to small homesteads, and am wondering if > anyone here has any first-hand experience they'd like to share. I'm > interested in a diversified farm (it's a ways off yet, but learning is > nonstop!). Specifically, do guinea fowl mix well with other poultry, or do > they outcompete chickens, geese and turkeys? How do they do in cold, wet > climates? > > Kendra Wise To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 21:58:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18434 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:58:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26443 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:45:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26332 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d62-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.62]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02132 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:43:28 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: organic and nutrition Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:50:11 +1000 Message-ID: <000a01bf1454$1eb5c2e0$3e3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991011183603.00764944@mail.internet.com.mx> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3152 I feel a bit left behind by some of the technical discussion. forgive me if I ask a basic question or two. Granted that some sub-soils in some places (not just in a region of the country but, where geology is complex, maybe in different parts of the one farm) may have chronic deficiencies, or difficult pH, does not the availability of nutrients to plants depend on soil management, particularly the development of colloidal humus? Put it another way: if the growing of a crop removes something from the soil, does that mean that something from a bag or a truck has to be added, or does it mean that the management of the soil and plant and animal production needs to be such as to maintain or improve soil quality, rather than see it go downhill? Is not this point - the enhancement of soil quality - the key factor in organic or sustainable farming, rather than measuring deficiencies and making choices between additives? Testing would seem important to establish basic start point data, including high or low pH and absence of minerals from the soil, perhaps more importantly the subsoil. And testing may be of value later, as a check on whether you are exhausting or enhancing the soil. But would not subjective assessment (looking, squeezing, inspecting for healthy macrobiota (worms, lizards, bugs, fungi) populations) be the front line test of how things are going? The central question: if correction is made for absence of essential minerals from the subsoil, can we then say that a good, improving topsoil will have the capacity to extract and make available to plants all the needed nutrients, in the most appropriate forms? Or am I missing something? (Granted also as a first rule that some soil-climate combinations are going to support some plants better than others, and so a basic rule is to grow what is locally appropriate.) Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 22:09:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18562 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28762 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:50:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28758 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18429 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d62-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.62]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02797 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:48:37 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: RE: Guinea fowl? Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:55:21 +1000 Message-ID: <000b01bf1454$d7514860$3e3325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199910120058.TAA27004@tuttle.kansas.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3153 Charlie what do they do to vegetable gardens and fruit? Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 22:41:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18858 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20158 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:25:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20153 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuttle.kansas.net (IDENT:root@tuttle.kansas.net [199.240.130.11]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18973 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:23:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uymfdlvk (pm3-131.rrl.kansas.net [199.240.131.131]) by tuttle.kansas.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA06213 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:19:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199910120219.VAA06213@tuttle.kansas.net> From: "Charlie Griffin" To: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:22:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Guinea fowl? In-reply-to: <000b01bf1454$d7514860$3e3325cb@p2> References: <199910120058.TAA27004@tuttle.kansas.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3154 We don't have much here in the way of fruit, but I would not expect any problems. We do have grapes and peaches, and they didn't eat them at all, as well as wild plums. I've never seen them picking up any plums off the ground under the bushes, so I suspect they're ok as well. They have shown no interest in tomatos nor in peppers, green leafy vegies, etc. They will eat some new sprouts when they are first coming up, and as I said in the first note, they do at times pick the new beds to scratch out a dust bath at times. They do not often do any scratching the way chickens do. They definitely seem to prefer insects over vegies. They regularly patrol through the garden for grasshoppers, and they cover a fairly wide range of perhaps 3-4 acres fairly quickly at times. They often will roost outside in a tree near the hen house, or along the top of the hen house in nice warm weather, and often alert me to the presence of a predator or unusual event. > Charlie > > what do they do to vegetable gardens and fruit? > > Dennis > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 22:42:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18863 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23959 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23890 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18728 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA08729 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:27:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:27:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: More than PR? industry action on Kyoto, C sequestration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3155 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Lynne Carpenter-Boggs wrote: > I don't know about BP Amoco, but I know why Monsanto is investing in > studying carbon sequestration in soil. Monsanto is very pro-no-till > because no-till farming requires, especially in the first 5-10 years, > significantly more herbicides (say "Roundup") than farming systems > that include tillage. > > No-till is a wonderful thing, and even with the increased herbicide > input it is a much more productive and environment-friendly system > than currently practiced in many places. BUT be assured that Monsanto > does nothing purely for the public good. If it makes them money, they > support it. Very simple. > > Maybe this seemingly sad fact of life should be taken advantage of > more often. The more successful environmental groups and campaigns do > not appeal to industries purely from an ethical viewpoint. Doing > things the right way can often mean doing things a more profitable > way. Don't expect an entity that survives on profit to give money > away for no reason, but GIVE them a reason and watch the corporate > machine go to work for your goal. That's all well and good, especially for Monsanto, but there are other ways to achieve environmental goals and increase production; think what farmers could do with the following. 1) Local production for as much local and/or regional sales as possible - forget the contract grow-out programs pushed by vertically integrated agribiz; and I hear they're now looking into buying farms and farmland and growing it themselves! Forget the American farmer, they'll be replaced by unionized tractor drivers working for XXXXX Vegetable Co. Farmers don't want to use RR seeds, more Roundup, turnkey system, contract growout plan? they can hang it up and sell out as they'll be undercut and run out of the marketplace by the VI corporations getting larger and doing the growing themselves. Has it not already happened to poultry and hogs? 2) Put (government mandate here) all livestock manure back on farmland, using the proper techniques, for recycling as fertilizer - even if it means tanker-trucking it where it needs to go or drying/composting it for distribution. 3) All phosphate mines will be limited to production of superphosphate or ground rock phosphate for agricultural uses, medicinal or other uses vital to our national securuty - no more wasting this non-renewable resource in soft drinks or soaps. This no-till/roundup thing is just too limited and is short-sighted. Think of the ground farmers can gain (npi) by researching, developing and using natural farming methods. The no-till w/o roundup can be improved upon. Mechanical weed removal, cover cropping and intercropping can eventually reduce and eliminate the need for roundup. Hilling and bedding techniques could follow no-till (read: use the Soil Saver and the Yeomans plows [Keyline system]). If I were a farmer with 1000 acres I would give my land to the Nature Conservancy before I'd put a drop of roundup on it or use RR or GM seeds. I would farm for local or regional sales (involves restructuring local economies; not impossible) and do this in concert with other farmers in my area. It involves solidarity and stick-to-it-iveness. The vertically integrated agribusiness/supermarket chain monopoly does not mean the end of small, family and independent farming in the US. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@mindspring.com http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture -+|+- EcoLandTech To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 11 22:51:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18946 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29117 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29096 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:38:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18835 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id WAA08854 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:36:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:36:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: one-duck revolution (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3156 There is an azolla website for those interested (linked to from my page http://metalab.unc.edu/london). LL ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:13:00 EDT From: CtopherP@aol.com To: permaculture Subject: one-duck revolution In current issue of The Ecologist (Vol. 29, No.6, October 1999), is a very interesting article on low-input, high-yield rice growing in Japan. Summarised.... Based around the role of duck as pest control in paddies. Developed by Mr and Mrs Furuno. Called "Aigamo method" after Japanese name for the duck. Method now spreading rapidly - 10,000 farmers have taken it up across SE Asia. Yields increased 20-50percent. One farmer increased income 3x. Also called "one-bird revolution" (some Masanobu Fukuoka inspiration I guess). Furunos have made v.good video (inc English) apparently. The duck is key to the sucess: -Key is to release ducklings into paddies soon after rice seeds planted. -Ducks don't eat the seedlings - silica content too high. -Ducks readily take to paddies. -About 20 ducklings per 1/10 ha. Ducks are good because: -Paddling makes stems stronger and thicker (has been demonstrated in experiments). -Eat insect pests and golden snails which attack rice plants. -Also eat seeds and seedlings of weeds. -Feet oxygenate water and stimulate roots as they pull up the weeds (again demostrated). -Ducks so good at weeding that 3rd world farmers can rest instead of 240 hrs weeding p.a. -Ducks of course are fed on weeds/pests. -Ducks left in fields 24hrs p.d. -When rice forms ears of grains, ducks rounded up (would eat the grains). -Then returned to shed and fed on waste grain. -They mature, lay eggs and get ready for market. Ducks not only inhabitant of paddies: -Azolla, "duckweed" aquatic fern (which harbours blue-green algae as symbiont), is also grown. -Azolla efficient nitrogen fixer. -Azolla eaten by ducks and attracts insects which are eaten by ducks. -Plant doubles every 3 days - can be harvested as cattle feed. -Duckweed spreads out to cover surface of water, providing cover for roach. -Roach feed on duck faeces, daphnia and other worms, which in turn feed on plankton. -Fish and ducks provide fertiliser for rice throughout growing season. -Rice provides cover for ducks. Aigamo paddy fields is balanced, self-maintaining, self-propagating. Only external input is waste grain fed to ducks (+ some labour of course). Furuno farm is 2ha. 1.4 is paddy, rest is organic vegetables. Output p.a. = 7tons rice, 300 ducks, 4,000 ducklings and enough organic veg for 100 people. Aigamo method, like that other Japanese method of M.Fukuoka shows that high-yield organic is not labour intensive. Author is Mae-Wan Ho, head of Electro-biodynamics at Open University, UK.>> To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 00:07:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20096 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11894 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:48:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11874 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20047 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ENPWLMLY; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:42:53 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:26:49 -0700 Subject: RE: Storage of Flood Water on Farmland Message-ID: <19991011.202649.3486.3.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3,18,23,26-27 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3157 I realize my climate (desert) and soil conditions (well drained but alkaline and tending to be high in salts) are very different from what most of you are talking about, but I just had to add my two cents to this discussion. Even where I live, many people seem to think the best thing to do with flood water is to get it onto the downhil neighbor's property as fast as possible. On the contrary, I try to slow it down as much as possible so it will soak in. We had approximately an inch of rain in September (the last trace on September 22) and none so far in October. Still, most of my garden has received no irrigation this fall and is not yet showing any water stress. In contrast, the weeds across the fence have shriveled up and turned dry. Why? Because I deliberately stored the runoff water of the summer monsoons in the soil of my garden beds. Where I've not yet been able to trap the runoff (and where my neighbors haven't even tried) it has dried out much faster. Please note: here in the desert, "dry" is NOT something to strive for--it happens sooner or later, no matter what you do. I'm talking about a gentle slope where the water quickly forms gullies below every new structure and cleared area if someone doesn't make an effort to slow it down. I followed what I learned from permaculture literature and added my own experiments to grow watermelons, beans, pop corn, basil, and cosmos without any irrigation except for runoff water. I even got a spaghetti squash that the birds must have planted. Next year, I plan to expand my rain-watered gardens even further. Like I say, my problems are different from those many of you face, but use of rain water is an important part of my garden plan. I get so little that I treasure what I get. Best regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 00:15:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20176 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11866 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:48:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11854 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20045 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ENPWLMHB; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 23:42:53 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:45:55 -0700 Subject: re:Rumenants Message-ID: <19991011.202649.3486.2.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5,9-11 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3158 Paul asked: Can anyone explain to me why it is that they don't recommend any meat scraps in the compost? There are likely other reasons, but the one that comes to my mind is that meat scraps attract unwelcome visitors to the compost. Things like rats, mice, ants, flies, raccons, skunks, dogs, cats, etc., many of which are downright inconvenient or unsanitary to have around. I vote for the following: don't take more onto your plate than you plan to eat, freeze any left-overs for a later meal, feed any unspoiled extra to a carnivorous pet, or burying anything unfit for human or pet consumption. Best regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 01:09:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20959 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA16465 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:45:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cybermesa.com (root@mail.cybermesa.com [198.59.109.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16398 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 00:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by mail.cybermesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3(SpamKiller1.0)) with ESMTP id WAA26688 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:43:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.12.75.228] (dial228.roadrunner.com [209.12.75.228]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA10664 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:43:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: fertigation-grade rock phosphate? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3159 Dear sanet, Can anyone help me compare the following two methods of applying rock phosphate: 1) Using micronized rock phosphate fed into irrigation lines at 25-100 lbs per acre. ($30 for 25 lbs) vs. 2) Field broadcasting of one ton/acre of granulated rock phosphate ($140/ton) A local farmer has asked me what makes more sense, and I'm not sure how to compare them. Any ideas??? Thanks, Nathan Boone Agricultural Consultant 200-B Callecita Place Santa Fe, NM 87501 Tel: 505.992.0649 Fax: 508.302.7761 Email: nrboone@roadrunner.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 02:04:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21599 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 02:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20574 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:46:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from olsmail1.att.net.hk (olsmail1.att.net.hk [202.77.253.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20418 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 01:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [202.77.163.136] (ppp6-136.att.net.hk [202.77.163.136]) by olsmail1.att.net.hk (8.8.8/AT&T-EasyLink-AP) with ESMTP id NAA13626 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:44:57 +0800 (HKT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: gruno@mail.att.net.hk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <38020E93.1AFBBC09@sprintmail.com> References: <38020E93.1AFBBC09@sprintmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:45:26 +0800 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" From: Keith Addison Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition - Brix testing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3160 Alex McGregor wrote: >At the Southern SAWG Conference in Memphis about 2 years ago, a farm >consultant did a demonstration of Brix testing- measuring the amount of >sugar in fruit with a refractometer; there is a direct correlation >between sugar content and mineral content. So, the higher the sugar, the >higher the mineral content. Alex, do you know of a scientific reference for the relation between sugar content and mineral content? I've had some very interesting results with refractometer tests, but haven't had any luck trying to pin down the basic principle, which has stopped me using the results a few times (for fear of attack!). Keith Hong Kong To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 08:00:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23480 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04597 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:42:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04586 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26144 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d18.as0.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.122.146]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA61564 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:40:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006401bf14a9$3ce91500$927a5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: Organic & Mineralization Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:59:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3161 Hi Dennis and all, Just thought I would put in my two cents worth here. As I have farmed my whole life, I was first trained that you need all the chemical fertilizer and micro's and all that. Of course recently I have started to switch over to the organic ways of doing things. Now I have been VERY fortunate to have some great mentors who not only think as I do but also very successful for several years as organic farmers. Here is what they have relayed to me. Through proper rotation the soil balances itself. After 3-4 years, all without exception, have reported that their soil test have started to go back up without any outside fertilizers. The crops pull what they need out of the nutrient rich subsoil and brings it to the surface where it can be used. Their crops continue to improve. All the farmers use someform of compost, primarily off threir own farm. Anyone care to coment on this? Thanks, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 09:05:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24299 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04097 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:32:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04022 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx (inter065.internet.com.mx [200.23.255.65]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA02612 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:25:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991012072639.00749ee8@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:26:39 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: organic and nutrition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id IAA04038 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3162 Dennis wrote >Granted that some sub-soils in some places (not just in a region of the >country but, where geology is complex, maybe in different parts of the one >farm) may have chronic deficiencies, or difficult pH, does not the >availability of nutrients to plants depend on soil management, particularly >the development of colloidal humus? > It is true that our first and foremost concern is to improve and maintain soil structure. Soil structure is dependent entirely on biological activity, the conversion of organic matter into energy (for soil microorganisms to grow and reproduce) and "colliods", "humus" and such, in other words secondary substances that bind together soil particles into 'crumbs' that produce a loose soil in with roots and grow freely and where water and air can penetrate freely (roots need water *and* air to metablolize properly). Achieving a good soil structure will solve most of your problems. If their are regional deficiencies, or more likely, imbalances among nutrient elements then this process of creating soil structure may run into difficulties. Plants may show any of a number problems including pests or diseases. The mineral status of a soil--and we're talking about maybe 22 elements here, not just two or three or six--is part of creating an optimum soil. (Unfortunately the idea of optimum soil isn't really addressed in soil and plant nutrition studies.) So, the answer to your question is "yes, but..." >Put it another way: if the growing of a crop removes something from the >soil, does that mean that something from a bag or a truck has to be added, >or does it mean that the management of the soil and plant and animal >production needs to be such as to maintain or improve soil quality, rather >than see it go downhill? Is not this point - the enhancement of soil >quality - the key factor in organic or sustainable farming, rather than >measuring deficiencies and making choices between additives? > If harvesting a crop removes an essential element from the topsoil, then this element becomes less available. If it was optimum at one point then it becomes less than optimum after being removed. It has to be replaced, it's as simple as that. If you take it out you have to put it back. There's no magic in "soil management"-- its physics and biology. How can you replace it? The most common way for many mineral elements to be restored is for deep rooted plants to bring them up again from the subsoil and deposit them in the top soil in leaf litter and other residues. If that element is scarce in the subsoil then it will be scarce in the topsoil--it will be quickly depleted in the harvest (perhaps, or by erosion) and will have to be supplied from other sources--"a bag or a truck" or from another part of the farm. Most descriptions of soil mineral content are misleading. They are talking about average amounts or minimum amounts necesary to prevent noticeable deficiency symptoms. But the level of Ca or B or Cu necessary to prevent obvious deficiency is usually quite different from the *optimumal* level of these nutrients for soil and plant health and productivity. What is more the optimal level isn't a fixed amount but varies according to the proportion of other elements. "Deficiencies" can be caused by high levels of an antagonistic element rather than by absolute absences of the deficient one. Higher N levels in the soil require higher Mo and Fe, for example. This is because these elements are used in enzyme systems the plant needs to metabolize N. These same principles apply to animal nutrition. How do you balance a soil optimally and know what elements to supply and when you are wasting your money? This is the art. Things are more likely to happen naturally on a diverse organic farm where the network of flows is more complex. A lot depends on the daily attention of the farm family, just noticing what is going on. But then questions arise and sometimes its not easy to find answers. It seems like the technical people and scientists are usually asking different questions. The behavior of our animals can give us clue. The freer they are to move around the more they can tell us about our soils etc. Sometimes animals have natural licks where they like go. These may just be salt, but natural licks probably have other mineral too. Getting these analyzed can give us a clue as to what is missing in the animals diet, and therefore in the soil (Geologically if there is a concentrated deposit in an area of some mineral itspossible that this mineral is deficient in the surrounding soils). Also watching what a cow eats after calving or when they are sick can be instructive. I have talked to graziers who use free choice mineral feeding. This is a system where minerals are given in separate trays and the cattle (or llamas or whatever) can choose their own mix. Observing what the animals do here can reveal worlds about the soil and the seasonal availability of minerals in the forage. Some graziers claim that this method allows very precise adjustment of the mineral levels in the soil, as the cattle carry these minerals and deposit them in their manure as they graze. I know one grazier who believes that cattle will go and deliberately drop in patch of soil that is deficient! Talk about sophisticated soil management, this beats precision farming! Anyway, talking to these people has convinced me we still have lot to learn about soil fertility. The point is optimal mineral balance should translate into healthy soil and plants and optimum quality foods. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 09:29:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24574 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19848 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:57:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19815 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:00:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.116] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A01B189C004A; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:56:59 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:54:47 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Quality: organic and nutrition revisted Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3163 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:36:03 -0500, Ronald Nigh wrote: >However, it is important to point out that this table does not indicate a >comparison between organic and conventional produce. It talks about changes >in some crops over time. In the context of the discussion, I understoond >Bart to imply that this table indicated a decrease in the mineral content >of organic foods. This is not the case (and this is not, apparently, what >Bart meant). No, I *did* mean to say that this table indicates a decrease in the mineral content of organic food. Using a 20% decline in 'X' from 1963-1993 as an example ... a) X in conventional produce declined by 20% from 1963 to 1993. b) Comparisons of organic and conventional produce in the late '80s (and since) have shown no consistent or statistical superiority in the levels of X found in organic produce. In other words, X is currently the same in organic and conventional produce. c) Therefore, X in organic produce *has* declined at roughly the same rate as it has in conventional produce. The only way it could be otherwise is if the mineral quality of organic produce in 1963 had been lower than that for conventional. Since even the earliest organic:conventional comparisons were inconclusive, I doubt this was the case. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 10:06:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25273 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06768 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:35:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06728 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:35:53 -0400 (EDT) From: flylo@txcyber.com Received: from flylo (ppp217.cy-net.net [208.21.195.26]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13007 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:34:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199910121334.IAA13007@portal.txcyber.com> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:55:51 -0500 Subject: rainwater run off & guineas X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3164 Someone on a biodynamic farming list mentioned the run off from the recent flooding on his own fields were clear running water, whereas the run off from the adjacent lands were the typical muddy silt. Has anyone on SANET experienced or noticed different water quality in various farm run off? And Guinea topic: We had guineas for a long time but the older they got, the more alarmist they became. A mob of birds screaming at shadows (and they CAN scream) was more than I could handle. These guys lived 12+ years, too, very hardy. Otherwise, they were great in with the rest of the poultry. Funny story. We had an insurance sales rep come by to talk to us about farm insurance. He had some 'trainees' with him. The guineas dutifully screamed their 'Hello', then ran off to play guinea games. The trainees were probably overwhelmed by everything anyhow, so didn't ask questions. As they conducted their business. they kept craning around to watch the guineas out the window. The birds were playing 'tag', sliding down the barn roof, and running around to the opposite side to fly up to do it again and again. Finally, someone asked me WHAT ARE THOSE BIRDS, AND WHAT ARE THEY DOING? (I guess it was unusual to see 23 birds falling off the barn roof over and over again.) If you raise the babies, I don't think they can stand the regular medicated chick starters, I can't remember. Game bird starter is usually safer for turks and keets. A guinea might take over a chicken 'wallow' for a dust bath but they won't scratch up the (established) garden nearly as bad as chickens do. They do travel in packs, so if one does something, they all do it. So, if they trample over newly planted ground, it won't be just one guinea, it'll be the whole mob. Taste wise, they're all dark meat, and seem to have more flavor than chicken. Killing one is an art form though. I've actually wrung a neck on a guinea and had it get up and scream at me and run off! Years later the only way I could tell that bird from the rest? His neck was a little longer and he was not trusting around people. Can't say as I blamed him. They say they can dodge bullets and I believe them! (Needless to say, we ate very few guineas around here.) We're guinea-less here now, and if I were to get screamers again, I'd go back to peafowl instead of guineas as I'm not apt to eat either very soon. Martha, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 10:54:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26458 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28857 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:18:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28825 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QWP3JN8>; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:16:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: OT?: October 12, 1999 - A date that shall live in infamy.. Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:16:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3165 SANETeers: Knowing full well that I am opening a can of worms from the left, right and others, the Sustainable Agriculture forum is the perfect place to bring up our current threat to sustainable anything. For those of you who are unaware, today the spaceship Earth marks its 6-Billionth passenger. Here is one link for a story by MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/news/320915.asp which presents both sides and an article sent me by the Environmental Defense Fund - Six Billion People and Counting! ---------------------- To: All Environmental Defense Fund Activists From: Azur Moulaert, Member Action Network Manager Date: Friday October 8, 1999 Re: Six Billion People and Counting! On October 12, the world's population will hit six billion people. This milestone raises a number of critical questions about the future for that 6 billionth person and for all of us. Will that child have adequate health care and enough food and water? Will she/he have any economic opportunities beyond exploitative labor practices and exploitation of our natural heritage? Without change, the answer to most of those questions will clearly be no. Population and the environment are inextricably linked. We already know -- all too well -- that unchecked population growth rapidly depletes resources and dramatically threatens the environment. Today, nearly one billion people on the planet are not getting enough to eat. More than half a billion people are living in countries suffering chronic shortages of fresh water. Looking forward, we must also consider that almost half of the current six billion people are under the age of 25; and only half the married women in the world have access to modern contraceptives or reproductive health information and services. The pressures on the earth and on the growing number of its inhabitants are clear. Without change, these pressures will only increase. Our nation's support for voluntary family planning initiatives in the world's poorest countries is one of the great humanitarian success stories and has historically enjoyed strong bipartisan support in the Congress. U.S. funding has allowed more than 50 million poor women to have access to desperately needed services, and to make choices about the number and spacing of their children. In recent years, though, Congress has severely restricted global efforts to expand these programs. In fact, U.S. funding for such efforts has been cut by one-third since 1995. As a result, programs and clinics have been shut down or severely cut back. At EDF, we recognize that population and consumption are interlocking issues. To resolve the world's major environmental challenges will require stabilizing the world's population, at the lowest possible level, along with using resources sustainably, alleviating poverty, promoting non-polluting technologies, and implementing efficient and equitable economic development policies. Both developed and developing countries should have the means to address these problems, including population issues. In short, as we work to meet current needs for a healthy environment, it just makes sense to provide communities with voluntary, culturally sensitive means for a healthy and equitable future. If you agree, please take a moment during this historic time to let your representatives in Congress know that Y6B (year of six billion) is the right time to restore America's traditional role of supporting family planning. It's and essential part of the answer for the future. Draw you own opinions, but keep in mind that nothing is unlimited. Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. It comes bundled with the software. ___________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 10:58:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26569 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:58:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00698 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:24:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00637 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:27:06 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.116] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A4772C72004A; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:23:51 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:21:40 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Organic & Mineralization Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3166 On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:59:27 -0400, Paul Schmitmeyer wrote: [and the Argalls made a similar point] >back up without any outside fertilizers. The crops pull what they need out >of the nutrient rich subsoil and brings it to the surface where it can be >used. Their crops continue to improve. Nutrient pumping (by crops) can be a valuable buffer against topsoil mineral loss to down-profile leaching in high rainfall areas. It can even recover some minerals that would otherwise have been lost, particularly calcium, magnesium, and potassium. It can also be a form of mining the soil, especially in dryer areas. That is how something like 60% of all the phosphorus in the top two metres of Prairie soils in the Canadian west has been exported in the form of wheat over the last 80 years or so. Phosphorus is not mobile in the soil, so even in a wet climate any phosphorus being brought up from the subsoil is being mined. All the nutrients exported from the farm must ultimately be replaced, or the system is not sustainable. Conventional wisdom uses large annual inputs of generally inefficient fertilisers --- only about 20% of the phosphate applied is available to the crop, for example --- to compensate for annual crop removal of NPK. Modified hydroponics, IMO. Agronomically effective organic production creates a substantial organic matter buffer against loss to leaching and erosion. Minerals are periodically replaced in the form of more slowly-released materials, made available to the system by an enthusiastic and healthy microbial community, living in the organic matter and regularly fed with green manure ploughdowns. Biological farming combines the best elements of conventional and organic approaches by supplementing the organic approach with judicious applications of very modest amounts of carefuly selected soluble fertilizers for improved crop response. Whatever the model, however, the nutrients exported (or lost) must be replaced, either by closing the loop (applying feedlot manure and human sewage to crop land) or by mining geologic deposits of those minerals and using them to replace what has left the system. Personally, I'm not real excited about the sewage option, so I'd opt for mined minerals. Fortunately, for most mineral nutrients this is not a problem. Calcium and magnesium are available in virtually unlimited supply in the limestones and dolomites found all over the world. At current inefficient use rates ,the Canadian supply of potash alone is sufficient for 4000 - 7000 years, depending on how the deposits are measured. Micronutrients are used in such small quantities that they are also not a problem. The real long-term weak link in the system is phosphorus. At current use rates (extraordinarily inefficient !), world supplies would last another 80 - 350 years, again depending on whose numbers you use. The only thing that mitigates the situation is the general immobility of phosphorus in the soil --- it doesn't leach downprofile like the cations. There's a lot I could say about improving the efficiency of phosphorus use --- but won't --- because this is already a long post, and since because this whole thread is in my area of expertise I've already been showing my electronic face around here a lot in the last couple of days. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 11:35:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27305 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:35:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13662 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:52:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13645 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:55:25 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.116] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AB1BB45F0040; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:52:11 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:50:00 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fertigation-grade rock phosphate? Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3167 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:43:55 -0600 (MDT), Nathan/Rachna Boone wrote: > Can anyone help me compare the following two methods of applying >rock phosphate: > >1) Using micronized rock phosphate fed into irrigation lines at 25-100 lbs >per acre. ($30 for 25 lbs) > >vs. > >2) Field broadcasting of one ton/acre of granulated rock phosphate ($140/ton) > > >A local farmer has asked me what makes more sense, and I'm not sure how to >compare them. Any ideas??? Golly, I just can't get away from this, can I ? Actually I don't think a lot of either method. Micronized rock phsophate is still *suspended* in water, not dissolved, and it seems ready made for plugging something somewhere. Irritation systems (excuse me, irrigation systems) are enough trouble without giving them another excuse to act up. $30-120/ acre is an outrageous cost for 5 - 20 lbs of *total* phosphate, of which only 10-20% will be available the first year. Field broadcasting is a better option, but still not a good one. If it's Idaho phosphate the granulation is usually pretty good, but if it's from Florida what they call "granules" are really small clumps that didn't fully break up when they dried and ground the old slime-pond residues. Your biggest challenge in New Mexico --- or most anywhere west of about 98-W longitude --- is that the soils are usually alkaline. The stable form of phosphate in those soils is calcium phosphate, which is the same stuff you'd be adding and expecting to have released. Doesn't work very well. Phosphate rock needs an acid environment (preferably below pH 6.3) to break down. Your best bet out there is to mix phosphate with manure, compost it, and apply the compost to the land. The organic acids in the manure will release much of the phosphate, and the phosphate will stabilise much of the manure nitrogen against loss during the composting process. What's going on chemically is that much of the nitrogen in manure is in the form of ammonium carbonate (unstable). That reacts with the calcium phosphate to form calcium carbonate (limestone) and mono-ammonium phosphate (stable). This is the same MAP sold as 12-50-0 at the local fertilizer plant, but if you 'make' it this way it's allowed for organic production, while the stuff in a bag will get you busted. Go figure. You can add about 50 lb of phosphate rock per cubic yard of manure, and if moderately composted and applied at about 5 tons/acre it will add about 200 lb/ac of phosphate to the system, including phosphate from the manure. Most of it will be reasonably available, so your client should get a crop growing quickly to transfer the phosphate to the living fraction of the system. Otherwise it will eventually react with the soil and revert to calcium phosphate, which gets you back where you started. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 11:42:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27559 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20317 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:03:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.clarityconnect.com (smtp.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20215 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Craig (24.95.173.142) by smtp.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.0a10); Tue, 12 Oct 1999 11:01:45 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19991012104412.00a2dd30@mail.clarityconnect.com> X-Sender: cdcramer@mail.clarityconnect.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:58:33 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Craig Cramer Subject: Guinea fowl? Check out pasture poultry list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3168 Kendra asked for advice on guinea fowl. An excellent source of information is the very active PasturePoultry discussion group at onelist.com. I only have time to skim the discussion occasionally, but if I recall there was a flurry of guinea fowl messages within the last month or so. To join or read the archives, go to the onelist homepage at: http://www.onelist.com/ You'll need to register. (It's all free.) Then use the search box to search for "pasture poultry." Follow the directions from there to join the list and/or view the archives. There is also an excellent grazing discussion going on the graze-r list hosted at the same site. Craig Craig Cramer mailto:cdcramer@clarityconnect.com 1,000 Ways to Sustainable Farming http://1000ways.baka.com Sustainable Farming Connection http://metalab.unc.edu/farming-connection To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 15:13:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01616 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05570 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:37:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05499 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:37:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTH1LA4>; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:36:25 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'samm@teleport.com'" Subject: Position: The Food Alliance, Executive Director Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:36:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3169 -----Original Message----- From: Samantha Searcy [mailto:samm@teleport.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 1:35 PM To: san@nal.usda.gov Subject: Food Alliance Executive Director Here's the job posting: The Food Alliance: Good Food for a Healthy Future The Food Alliance (TFA) is a non-profit organization dedicated to increasing awareness of the link between environmentally friendly farming practices and protection of Northwest natural resources. We have two exciting opportunities to become part of our hard working staff: Program Director The Food Alliance is seeking a Program Director to oversee and coordinate the Farm and Retail Programs. Reporting directly to the Executive Director, the Program Director will insure that the two programs are operating synergistically as they develop and expand. The Director will work with staff and the Executive Director to develop long-term goals and plans for the programs, including budgets, and will be responsible for providing the support they need to achieve the goals of their programs. Office Manager TFA is seeking an Office Manager to handle its day-to-day operations and insure that the infrastructure of the organization is in good health. Reporting directly to the Executive Director, the Office Manager (OM) is responsible for human resource issues such as benefits and scheduling as well as computer systems and office supplies. It is the OM's job not only to see that present procedures run smoothly, but also to evaluate those procedures or systems and replace them if necessary. The OM should have several years' experience as an office manager and should be looking for a challenge. Full job descriptions are posted on our web site at www.thefoodalliance.org All interested candidates are encouraged to apply. Please send cover letter and resume to: The Food Alliance 1829 NE Alberta #5 Portland, OR 97211 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 15:26:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01972 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16740 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16709 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01266 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA25584 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:54:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:54:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: More than PR? industry action on Kyoto, C sequestration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3170 On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Lynne Carpenter-Boggs wrote: > No-till is a wonderful thing, and even with the increased herbicide > input it is a much more productive and environment-friendly system > than currently practiced in many places. How is increased herbicide use/acre more environment-friendly? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 16:36:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03287 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22753 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:58:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22702 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTH1L2W>; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:57:06 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: POSITION VACANCY, Central Caroline CC Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:57:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3171 Apologies if this is a repeat! -----Original Message----- From: Linda spivey [mailto:lspivey@GW.CCAROLINA.CC.NC.US] Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 3:55 PM Subject: POSITION VACANCY Item Type: Appointment Start Date: 10/04/1999 03:45 pm (Monday) Duration: 1 Hour POSITION VACANCY SUSTAINABLE FARMING COORDINATOR Central Carolina Community College is seeking qualified candidates for this position based on the Chatham County Campus, Pittsboro, NC Duties will include instructor training, developing schedules, procuring materials, coordinating land lab operations, recruiting students, and promotion of the program. Requirements include training/experience in sustainable/organic farming methods, with the Associate Degree in agriculture or related field preferred. A completed CCCC application and a copy of transcripts must be received by October 8, 1999. Contact Human Resources, CCCC, 1105 Kelly Drive, Sanford, NC 27330 or call (919)775-5401 Ext. 228 or 213. CCCC IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER Linda Spivey, Adm. Asst. CCCC 1105 Kelly Drive Sanford NC 27330 FAX (919)718-7380 (919)718-7228 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 18:09:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05133 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:09:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25532 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:35:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25412 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from STEVED.uark.edu ([130.184.56.238]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) with SMTP id QAA08607; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:33:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910122133.QAA08607@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Steve Diver" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" , "Bluestem Associates" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:29:46 +0000 Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition Reply-to: steved@ncatark.uark.edu In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3172 Steve Diver wrote: > >Table 1. Average changes in the mineral content of some fruits and > >vegetables*, 1963-1992 [Bergner] > > > >Mineral Average % Change > > > >Calcium -29.82 > >Iron -32.00 > >Magnesium -21.08 > >Phosphorus -11.09 > >Potassium -6.48 > > > >* Fruits and vegetables measured: oranges, apples, bananas, > >carrots, potatoes, corn, tomatoes, celery, romaine lettuce, broccoli, > >iceberg lettuce, collard greens, and chard > > Bart Hall wrote: > Given these declines. Given organic vs. conventional studies from the > late '80s that were (at best) inconclusive. Given the high dedication > to organic production principles at the time (ie, money was not the > motive as it so often is these days) ... the organic > movement/community/industry should go into a corner and hide from > embarassment. I'm not sure what Bart is saying here. The data I posted from Bergner's book is not a comparison of organic to organic, or organic to conventional. The data are taken from USDA figures on composition of foods typically found in the marketplace. Thus, the data almost certainly describe conventional to conventional food composition as analyzed in 1963 and again in 1992. They indicate that as a general rule, mineral content in foods have declined over time. It supports the argument from the alternative farming crowd that minerals are being depleted from soils due to farming practices. And likewise, that attention to mineral fertilization and balanced soil nutrition is very important. Nevertheless, I am in agreement with Bart's views on the mineral situation on organic farms. Certified organic in itself does not imply good criteria for food quality. On the other hand, the alternative farming movement (at least certain parts of the organic, biodynamic, and ecofarming crowds) have addressed food quality at an advanced level. Soil tests, fertilizer recommendations with attention to balanced nutrients and calcium levels, and qualitative/quantitative measurements of the food product itself are an important part of the picture. That food quality differences do in fact exist, and can be tweaked and improved through a series of soil management and foliar feeding practices, is without a doubt one of the biggest stories of alternative farming. Here, I am reminded of the following observation from well known ridge-till farmer from Boone, Iowa, Mr. Richard Thompson, in response to academic types at a farming conference who insisted that "nitrogen is nitrogen is nitrogen": "Men say no, but mice know the difference" This was in reference to a on-farm trial where mice ate organically-raised corn but would not touch chemically-fertilized corn; further supporting William Albrecht's views that animals have more food sense than most Americans, as witnessed by our food production and consumption habits. Steve Diver To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 19:08:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06346 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:08:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00441 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:29:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00437 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:29:46 -0400 (EDT) From: flylo@txcyber.com Received: from flylo (ppp273.cy-net.net [208.21.195.82]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10331 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:28:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199910122228.RAA10331@portal.txcyber.com> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:50:23 -0500 Subject: cows as chemists X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3173 The quote: I know one grazier who believes that cattle will go and deliberately drop in patch of soil that is deficient! Talk about sophisticated soil management, this beats precision farming! Not so far fetched if you think about it. A cow has to eat and drink a lot to keep her rumen stimulated. If she's grazed on super rich, concentrated forages, she may not be able to eat as much of it as she actually requires (more matter in general) to keep her fully functioning. So, she goes in search of other, maybe lesser quality forages. When the whole herd gathers, there's bound to be noticeably more manure concentrated in the area. Manure that most recently was constructed of the higher quality (mineral content, etc) forages. Because, she's eaten the high mineral grasses, gone to fill up on the rangier grasses, then gone for her water intake, so any manure she puts down won't have absorbed quite as much water. If you've ever AI'd a cow, you'd know she has a huge potential for spreading fertilizer around. Time of the year, also has a lot to do with it. My dairy goats were averaging 5.2 - 5.8% butterfat earlier in the year and now the same feed and foraging patterns are yielding butterfat scores of barely 3.2%. (Not bad, but as a cheesemaker, it makes a huge difference knowing the milking patterns per seasonal forage.) Martha, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 21:44:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08826 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20013 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:16:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from VM1.MCGILL.CA (VM1.McGill.CA [132.206.27.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA19922 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by VM1.MCGILL.CA (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via spool with SMTP id 2263 ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:15:06 EDT Received: from MUSICB.MCGILL.CA (NJE origin MUSICB@MCGILL1) by VM1.MCGILL.CA (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 0720; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:15:07 -0400 Message-Id: <12OCT99.22951785.0019.MUSIC@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:15:05 EDT From: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" To: Cc: "John Henning, Eco-Echo, McGill U., Montreal, Ca" Subject: GMO labelling standard for Canada X-Mailer: MUSIC/SP V5.1.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3174 RE: Voluntary labelling standards for GMO's in Canada Please forgive me for being redundant if this has already been passed along. A committee is being established to develop a voluntary standard for labelling food products containing GMO's. The initiative is coming from grocery distributors and supported by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. The process for developing the standard will be managed by the Canadian General Standards Board, the same agency that helped develop the national organic standard for Canada. To the best of my knowledge, this will not be about whether or not there should be a standard, but what form the standard should take. The first meeting of the standards committee has been proposed for late October or mid-November. As with past CGSB committees, membership is fairly open and interested parties should contact the CGSB. The contact person is: Marian Gaucher Secretary, Committee on Vtluntary Labelling of foods obtained through Biotechnology. tel: 819-956-1594 fax 956-5740 email: Marian.L.Gaucher@pwgsc.gc.ca I will pass along other information as it becomes available. John Henning p.s. I don't think there is a standard in the US at this point. Is this correct ? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 12 22:57:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09685 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12045 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:39:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11959 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp68.epix.net [209.74.60.68]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999100101/PL) with ESMTP id WAA15062 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3803F365.69679721@epix.net> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:50:13 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet Subject: nutrition and mineralization Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3175 I've enjoyed this discussion on nutrition and mineralization in organic and conventional farming systems. The most important point is striving to balance the soil, which I have been attempting to do over the last 10 years or so with decent results. I test my fields every 3 years (OM, CEC, %base Saturation, NPK, plus 10 micros). As previously mentioned I believe rotation is a big help in maintaining soil nutritional balence as well as diverse cover crops and animal manures. And now to turn the thread a bit. Below is a comment, on another listserv, from a fellow in Brazil. I'd be interested on any comments on this because it describes what I do on my farm. ----- "Another thing a lot of farmers down here insist on, is the combination of green manures with chemical fertilizers. I tell you what, they get good results that way, and the best farmers use about a third of the "recommended" dose of chemical fertilizer, scarcely sacrificing any production in the good years, and out-producing their neighbors in the years when the weather is unfavorable. It seems that the green manure in the soil, and perhaps the biological activity it promotes, somehow enhances the plants' "fertiliser use efficiency". --- So, any other farmers concur with this? Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 01:10:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11807 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 01:10:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA04462 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:45:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailhost.rmisp.com (rmisp.com [208.164.233.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04445 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from geoffrey ([208.162.252.95]) by mailhost.rmisp.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-56550U2500L250S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:52:00 -0600 Message-ID: <000301bf1534$91bb09e0$5ffca2d0@geoffrey> From: "Geoffrey Mason" To: Subject: Funding ideas for Bribri Traditional Agriculture Project Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:33:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3176 Hello, I am trying to find funding to do participatory research/development work with the Bribri indigenous people of Costa Rica. I will be working with the Universidad Rural which is associated with FUNDAEC in Columbia. The project works with the Bribri to combine their traditional agricultural knowledge with agroecological principles to allow them to create their own sustainable agricultural systems in the rainforest of Costa Rica. Does anyone have any ideas of funders (either individuals or foundations) interested in traditional agriculture, indigenous people, and Latin America that we could approach? If not, does anyone have suggestions on who might know of such funders? I am including more info on the project below. Thank you for your help, Geoffrey Mason Case Studies: Community Development with the Bribri of Costa Rica Overview: Human resources within communities are developed to strengthen local community structures. Farmer participatory research, based on traditional agricultural systems, develops learning processes for human development. Scale: Household, subsistence farm, population, rural community, local region. Location: Upper Talamanca Valley, Limon Province, Costa Rica (82.8- 83.3W, 9.6- 9.3N). Elevation: 600 to 3000 meters Climate: Tropical rainforest (Af. Am - G.T. Trewartha) Agricultural Region: Plantation agriculture/Shifting cultivation (G/E) Population Density: 13.5 persons / square kilometer. Principal Crops: More than 120 species of domestic and wild crops per hectare, including subsistence crops, medicinal plants, commercial crops, building and boat construction, firewood, crafts, natural pesticides, and legumes. Domestic Animals: Pigs, Poultry; wild animals and birds. Soils: Inceptisols (Aquepts 12 - G. T. Trewartha) Seasonally saturated with water. Natural Vegetation: Broadleaf evergreen trees (B). Ecoregion: Rainforest Altitudinal Zone (Tr4) Basic Principles: Conserve Resources, Manage Ecological Relationships, Adjust to Local Environments, Diversify, Empower People, Maximize Long-Term Benefits page prepared by: Neil Whatley Description: Agriculture is the main activity of Bribri indigenous communities of Costa Rica, with more than 120 wild and domestic crop species planted per hectare to provide food, construction materials, crafts, medicine, firewood and commercial exchange. By developing human resources within these communities using an agriculture research oriented, farmer-participatory, systems approach, community structure is strengthened to confront influences from both inside and outside the region, assuring that Bribri culture and traditional farming knowledge are preserved and supported. Agriculture research utilizes multidisciplinary on-farm participatory techniques to develop essential capabilities and attitudes in farm family members. Current research projects focus on swine control and management, agronomic features of the traditional bio-diverse farming system (a form of agroforestry), and the marketing of alternative crops. Formal and non-formal educational programs within communities are used to socialize knowledge gained by investigations and to develop local human resources. This approach helps farmers become valuable human resources who participate in processes of social change while still desiring to remain and work on family farms, preventing urban migration. Extending experiences to more farms enhances local farming systems as they are continuously modified to become more appropriate under different conditions. Experience in bio-diverse farming systems demonstrates an integrated approach to community development and research, as the Bribri people walk their own path to development. Lessons learned: The Bribri's bio-diverse farms are sustainable perennial polyculture systems that mimic natural rainforest architecture. They use natural nutrient cycling and symbiotic relationships between plants, insects, birds, bats, and other animals to provide natural mechanisms for pest control, incorporate soil rejuvenating legume trees, and produce relay harvests throughout the year. The development of human resources helps the Bribri people to determine the importance of retaining these valuable agroecological characteristics in their traditional farming systems, along with choosing appropriate new technology. The resulting farming system is more appropriate with respect to biophysical, socioeconomic, and cultural conditions than both the traditional farms and the "technological packages" introduced from outside. Bribri women have traditionally been the owners and managers of swine, so the swine management learning process includes 80% women, enhancing gender equity and improving the stature of women in the community. Research within the bio-diverse farming systems has helped both Bribris and project facilitators to gain a deeper understanding of these complex traditional farming systems and to realize the need to promote learning processes that necessarily begin within communities. Three of these processes are 1) cultural expression by rescue of local crafts, use of puppetry with children and theatre with youth to express traditional legends, 2) drug and alcohol abuse prevention programs and 3) improving primary formal education programs. Principles illustrated: Conserve Resources: Use of bio-diverse cropping systems minimizes erosion because topsoil is protected by increased leaf litter fall and conserves endemic crop species. Capital conservation is enhanced by reducing dependence on external inputs for household and farm use. Manage Ecological Relationships: Increased plant biodiversity provides flowering and aromatic ornamental plants that attract beneficial insects, birds, and bats providing natural pest control and optimum flower pollination. Shading and allelopathy are used to decrease weed incidence and also provides natural plant barriers preventing fungal spore transmission between crops from similar plant families. Many leguminous trees and shrubs exist in the bio-diverse farms, thus providing biological nitrogen fixation. Crop biodiversity creates many usable species for household use.The bio-diverse farms include perennial crops that provide shade to decrease soil water loss and fungal disease incidence.increases efficiency of nutrient cycling Adjust to Local Environments: The bio-diverse cropping system mimics the natural rainforest, thus optimizing productive potential in the wet humid rainforest ecosystem. Diversify: Efficient crop diversification is achieved by using indigenous knowledge to arrange plant association in polyculture systems on the bio-diverse farms using traditional intercropping techniques and integrating swine and poultry that forage within these farming systems at appropriate times. Bio-diverse farms are designed to produce diverse products, including both household goods and crops for commercial sale. Empower People: On-farm participatory agricultural techniques are used to enhance human development and retain valuable characteristics of traditional indigenous knowledge. Indigenous people and communities are empowered and strengthened by programs to enhance cultural expression, prevent drug and alcohol abuse, and improve education. Women are empowered by orienting development processes, such as swine management improvement, toward their strengths in the community. Maximize Long-Term Benefits: For thousands of years, the Bribri people have dedicated themselves to agriculture, and their traditional bio-diverse farms maximize intergenerational benefits, not just annual profits. Long-term strategies are used to design and maintain these farming systems which build soil fertility and ensure soil organic matter development over the long-term. Long-term benefits are socially maximized by facilitating generational land transfers to male and female offspring alike. Traditional systems, with their immense crop biodiversity that is now integrated with swine production, are the traditional "banking" systems that support Bribri livelihood and quality of life. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 06:59:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14108 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 06:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA09014 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:02:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08976 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:02:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d03-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.130] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA18221 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:00:27 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: Subject: Organic & Soil Nutrients and Mineralization Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:07:11 +1000 Message-ID: <000101bf1551$f37923c0$8279a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3177 Thanks those several thoughts. Here a parcel more. On biodynamic and seaweed application, it would seem to me that the actual and intended effect is less in provision of micronutrients than in stimulation of 'soil life' - to use an expression to capture a lot of things, without a list, also to suggest that the whole of soil life might be more than the sum of the parts (see below). And that thus these are potentially beneficial in terms of the increase in soil nutrient and mineral quality. I agree with Bart's comment on absolute depletion of some elements. In Australia, the ubiquitously low level of phosphorus, for geological reasons, is reflected in the altered ATP processes in Eucalyptus trees; and in a century and more of grazing, much phosphorus has departed in wool bales, as well as in grain and meat. No wonder in such circumstances the arrival of superphosphate produced miracles. And 'super' is still an article of faith, despite hard pan effects, lowering of pH and evidence that there is a pretty quick lock up of the fertiliser. Heavy (calcium) liming to adjust declining pH is no doubt altering availabilities of a number of elements, especially Mg, which may be [I speculate] another factor contributing to the rise of osteoporosis. Widespread use of superphosphate has also produced widespread dieback in native plants, including Eucalypts, which eventually comes back to bite the farmer as tree losses raise water tables. There are limits to which the basic factors of geology and climate can be disregarded for the sake of growing exotic plants. Bart is not attracted to the use of sewage, but it seems to me that there needs to be public policy development, in the first instance to encourage the redevelopment of sewage systems (a big need in many cities anyway), over time (a period relevant to the decline in phosphate rock reserves), to ensure separation of potentially toxic chemical waste streams from recyclable sewage. I do know some organic vegetable farmers who keep pigeons - let loose during the day to forage - to collect high phosphate droppings to add to compost. Pigeons require a diet around 27% protein. Their droppings, in my experience, will eat paint on a Ford more quickly than anything else. I added the word nutrient back into the title, because I think it important to have regard for the manner in which a healthy, colloidal soil provides minerals in molecular form to the plant, rather than simply as ions of elements. We can look on the ways this stuff gets into plants as dumb or smart processes. If you put enough soluble ions around a plant root yes, sure, poisonous or nutritious, they are likely to be taken up - a dumb process. But I suspect that much smarter processes are at work in molecular transfers between roots and a healthy environment and these are what is critical. I have been trying to find my copy of Freeman Dyson, Infinite in All Directions, Penguin 1990 [still in print] which has a useful review, chapter 4, of the debate, as regards the origins of life, on the issue of whether 'the cell', protein or RNA came first. The current overwhelming preoccupation of biology is on genes, but there is quite a case for arguing that the cell and protein may come first. Whereas the 'origins of life' hunt is carried out mainly in geology, it seems to me that a whole lot of it is happening all the time under our noses in the soil, particularly in the formation of coacervates associated with clay microcrystals. I agree with Ronald that this ain't magic, unless you define magic as biological processes which, for lack of understanding, some people prefer to give supernatural explanation. Carl Lindgren discusses the coacervate issue in 'Cold War in Biology', Ann Arbor, 1966. So, I think it is important to think not only about assays of elements, or the idea of "deep rooted plants to bring them up again from the subsoil and deposit them in the top soil in leaf litter and other residues" [Nigh] It may have not been Ronald's intention for this to sound a mechanical process, but it can be read that way if we don't get a focus on the intensity of soil activity. Also the additive accounting view of elements requires me to quote again the Nobel Prize winning physiologist, Szent-Gyorgi: "One particle, plus one particle, put together at random, are two particles, 1+1=2; the system is additive. But if two particles are put together in a meaningful way then something new is born which is more than their sum: 1+1>2. This is the most basic equation of biology. It can also be called organisation." Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, Bioelectronics: A Study in Cellular Regulations, Defense, and Cancer, Academic Press New York, 1968, p4. Unless we regard the matter of mineral management as organisational rather than additive we are likely to treat plants the soil and plants disruptively. Ronald and Steve offer the anecdotal evidence of smarter animals knowing the good from the bad. They are talking about mammals. But what about insects? The evidence of observation is that insects are attracted to the nutritionally deficient. Some fresh observations: I have recently been pruning citrus trees neglected for several years. These have been attacked by leaf miners and by borers. I am struck by the nifty way that the leaf miners trimmed the top and edges and by the way the borers have ring-barked the trees where I thought it sage to prune - some of the borer work was obvious with leaves yellowing, but in some cases the borer work was very recent, no die back apparent, and as I reached in with the pruners, exercising my big-front-brain genius, there was the saw-dusty ring-barking where I planned to cut. Fukuoka, in one Straw Revolution, notes the pruning and thinning effect of one particular rice pest, and observes that leaving that pest in the rice field actually increases crop yield - he emphasises the selection of stronger plants in the process and the provision of more light and better heading to plants, but there would seem also to be a prompt sheet composting effect of both vegetable and insect wastes.. So, presence of insect pests (I am not talking of grasshopper plagues, though there are broader management issues no doubt there) represent both signs of nutritional deficit, and adjustment requirements for the plant. So, another bag, another dollar? My point is that there are ways of seeking to minimise inputs to the farm, and that these should come first, and that where there are inputs they should be soil nutritional rather than either force feeding or allopathic in effect. And I suggest that for the long term the focus ought to be on recycling the losses from the farm. Put all those odd wool socks in the compost, unwashed, perhaps, to hasten degradation. Which, of course, raises the entirely irrelevant but nonetheless intriguing question: why are all odd socks clean? Dennis [maybe if I put my tongue in my cheek earlier in the message I might bite it sooner...] To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 10:56:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18077 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02318 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:07:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02254 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.01353689@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:06:17 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 13 Oct 99 10:06:10 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 13 Oct 99 10:05:43 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:05:42 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Six Billion People and Counting! In-reply-to: <199910121839.OAA07472@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3178 Six Billion People and Counting! Walker Bennet brought to our attention the matter of sixth billionth person to the planet, and I have a few comments. As I agree that population and access to appropriate contraceptive methods is a very important topic, I am usually frustrated by the direction that discussions of world over-population take. It is usually argued that it is the sheer number of people that is depleating our resources and increasing contamination and poverty. But I think this is only a small part of the issue. I think that the real issue is the amount of resource depleation and pollution PER person. The statistic that sticks out in my mind is that an average person (whatever that is!) in a "developed" country uses 12 (that's TWELVE) times the resources of an average "developing" country person. In other words, if I have one child, that child is the same as my counterpart in Bangladesh or Nigeria having 12 children. Wow. Now, one wonders, who is *really* overpopulating the earth? Another part of the story... Statistics also clearly show that as infant mortality rates decline and the opportunity for education increases, fertility rates decline (much more so than the availability of contraceptives alone). That is, when people can be sure that a given child is likely to survive to adulthood and they are willing and able to invest in that child, they are likely to have fewer children. (The move from agrarian society to non agrarian is also an important factor.) Having lived in and married someone from a "third world" country, I live somewhere between the two realities, and I experience the differences everytime I try to explain to my in laws (for example) why we haven't had children yet... In most countries of the world, the potential benefits an additional child are felt to be much greater than the cost of feeding one more mouth. But that's because they don't agonize over how they will buy more health insurance (no one can afford it anyway), how they will pay for a decent education (doesn't seem attainable anyway), how they will afford to add another bedroom, another bed, baby seats, cribs, toys, clothes, a new minivan and on and on. The things that seem to us in the US to be basic needs when raising a child are just not reasonably attainable realities in most countries. So another child just seems like it requires a bit more food, a few more hand-me-down clothes, and a few more prayers. (Small price to pay for gaining another possible source of family income.) Of course, this is much less resource-intensive! So the issue is more than just that some parts of the world are reproducing too often. Other parts of the world are also consuming too much. And declines in reproduction are usually met with increases in consumption. So what's the answer? Well, there's obviously more than one answer, but a big chunk of the solution is related to why this thread has a place on this list. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 11:49:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19274 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01570 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:04:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01501 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25650 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA29326; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm5-35.nidlink.com [216.18.141.42]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA12656; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910131502.IAA12656@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:15:15 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Cover Crops and Soybeans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3179 In response to the Brazilian farmer's query, posted by Steve, likely generic explanations of the benefits of cover crops and reduced fertilizer rates in soybean production arise from the impact of the cover crop on leaching of N and other nutrients in wet years; water holding capacity in dry years; soil microbial biocontrol; and nutrient cycling in all years, to varying extents. The break down of the cover crop is no doubt stimulating microbial activity. This may be causing an increase in mycchorizae that are essential to make P available to the soybean plant, and also helps some with N cycling, limiting losses to leaching and/or volatization. The late-season breakdown of the microorganisms that thrived earlier in the year provides an often needed late-season boost to yields. There may also be complex soil microbial biocontrol mechanisms at play, either triggering a stronger immune response via systemic acquired resistance, or reducing damaging pathogen pressure via competitive forces or production of antibiotics, or other mechanisms. With the more biological active/diverse soil, the odds are greater that strong defensive mechanisms will arise/exert themselves and that pest pressure will not reach damaging and uncontrollable levels. chuck Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 12:19:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19922 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16756 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:39:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f13.hotmail.com [207.82.250.24]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA16752 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13996 invoked by uid 0); 13 Oct 1999 15:37:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19991013153725.13995.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.50 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:37:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.50] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Six Billion People and Counting! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:37:25 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3180 While I believe that these are all valid points-- I think it is important to also think of the relative strain put on the system by another child. For instsnce, The US can handle, with relative ease, replacement or slightly higher level birth rates. A country like Bangladesh does not even have the resources or infrastructure to provide for its people now, so even if 12 more children consume as much as 1 more american, the strain put on that system is exponentially increased. You can't just total up the world's resources and then divide by 6 billion, distribution is absolutely a key issue. It really is a very complex issue with a lot of sensitivites involved. >From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" >To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: Six Billion People and Counting! >Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:05:42 EST5EDT > > Six Billion People and Counting! > >Walker Bennet brought to our attention the matter of sixth billionth >person to the planet, and I have a few comments. As I agree that >population and access to appropriate contraceptive methods is a very >important topic, I am usually frustrated by the direction that >discussions of world over-population take. It is usually argued that >it is the sheer number of people that is depleating our resources and >increasing contamination and poverty. But I think this is only a >small part of the issue. I think that the real issue is the >amount of resource depleation and pollution PER person. The >statistic that sticks out in my mind is that an average person >(whatever that is!) in a "developed" country uses 12 (that's TWELVE) >times the resources of an average "developing" country person. In >other words, if I have one child, that child is the same as my >counterpart in Bangladesh or Nigeria having 12 children. Wow. Now, >one wonders, who is *really* overpopulating the earth? > >Another part of the story... Statistics also clearly show that as >infant mortality rates decline and the opportunity for education >increases, fertility rates decline (much more so than the >availability of contraceptives alone). That is, when people can be >sure that a given child is likely to survive to adulthood and they >are willing and able to invest in that child, they are likely to have >fewer children. (The move from agrarian society to non agrarian is >also an important factor.) Having lived in and married someone from >a "third world" country, I live somewhere between the two realities, >and I experience the differences everytime I try to explain to >my in laws (for example) why we haven't had children yet... In most >countries of the world, the potential benefits an additional child >are felt to be much greater than the cost of feeding one more mouth. >But that's because they don't agonize over how they will buy more >health insurance (no one can afford it anyway), how they will pay for >a decent education (doesn't seem attainable anyway), how they will >afford to add another bedroom, another bed, baby seats, cribs, toys, >clothes, a new minivan and on and on. The things that seem to us in >the US to be basic needs when raising a child are just not reasonably >attainable realities in most countries. So another child just seems >like it requires a bit more food, a few more hand-me-down clothes, >and a few more prayers. (Small price to pay for gaining another >possible source of family income.) Of course, this is much less >resource-intensive! > >So the issue is more than just that some parts of the world are >reproducing too often. Other parts of the world are also consuming >too much. And declines in reproduction are usually met with >increases in consumption. So what's the answer? Well, there's >obviously more than one answer, but a big chunk of the solution is >related to why this thread has a place on this list. > >Anita > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 12:42:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20372 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00766 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:08:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00750 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27005 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu (root@rac2.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.142]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27602 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac2.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27318 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jgruv@localhost) by rac2.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27307 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:06:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac2.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:06:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Brooks Gruver To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: harnessing endophytic and epiphytic relationships In-Reply-To: <199910131502.IAA12656@enaila.nidlink.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3181 Hello to all... While pondering the ecological implications of crops with resistance to herbivory through plant expression of microbial endotoxins (e.g. BT), I wondered about the potential for increased utilization of endophytic and epiphytic microbe/plant relationships to manage phytophagous insects. My understanding is that some turf grasses (e.g. tall fescue) have few insect pest problems as a result of their hosting of endophytic microbes which live within the plant and produce compounds that are toxic to plant feeders... yet this same relationship causes serious problems for livestock that graze upon endohyte infected forages. I wondering about the potential for utilizing endophytes to protect grain species from insect herbivory. Would the endophyte's endotoxins be expressed in the grain causing problems for grain consumers ? My vague understanding of the tall fescue endophyte lifecycle is that the endophyte is carried by the seed. A major focus in the Ecology of Agriculture class that I am teaching is positive interactions between species and the potential for much greater utilization of these interactions in agriculture. What would be the benefits of having an endotoxin synthesized by an endophytic organism rather than by the plant itself ? My understanding is the BT is not an effective epiphytic organism otherwise live cultures could be sprayed on crop foliage that would persist and multiply. Are there adapted epiphytic microbes that can be used to reduce insect feeding ? What would be the benefits of having an endotoxin synthesized by an adapted epiphytic microbe rather than the host plant ? What is the potential for utilizing endophytic and epiphytic/plant relationships in agricultural systems ? Joel Gruver Center for Agriculture, Food and Environment Tufts University To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 12:59:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21365 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00848 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:08:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from isua2.iastate.edu (isua2.iastate.edu [129.186.1.202]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00833 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ehurley@localhost) by isua2.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA23130 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:07:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910131607.LAA23130@isua2.iastate.edu> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re:Six Billion People and Counting! Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:07:18 CDT From: Eric G Hurley Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3182 To achieve a sustainable agricultural system we must deal with both the total population and high levels of consumption among some people in the population. To ignore either issue would not lead to a sustainability. To put it another way, if we drastically increase the efficiency of sustaining each person on the earth and do not control population, the system will not be sustainable. If we control population, but continue to utilize more and more ecosystem resources for each human, the system will not be sustainable. Eric G. Hurley Ames Iowa ------- Forwarded Message Six Billion People and Counting! Walker Bennet brought to our attention the matter of sixth billionth person to the planet, and I have a few comments. As I agree that population and access to appropriate contraceptive methods is a very important topic, I am usually frustrated by the direction that discussions of world over-population take. It is usually argued that it is the sheer number of people that is depleating our resources and increasing contamination and poverty. But I think this is only a small part of the issue. I think that the real issue is the amount of resource depleation and pollution PER person. The statistic that sticks out in my mind is that an average person (whatever that is!) in a "developed" country uses 12 (that's TWELVE) times the resources of an average "developing" country person. In other words, if I have one child, that child is the same as my counterpart in Bangladesh or Nigeria having 12 children. Wow. Now, one wonders, who is *really* overpopulating the earth? Another part of the story... Statistics also clearly show that as infant mortality rates decline and the opportunity for education increases, fertility rates decline (much more so than the availability of contraceptives alone). That is, when people can be sure that a given child is likely to survive to adulthood and they are willing and able to invest in that child, they are likely to have fewer children. (The move from agrarian society to non agrarian is also an important factor.) Having lived in and married someone from a "third world" country, I live somewhere between the two realities, and I experience the differences everytime I try to explain to my in laws (for example) why we haven't had children yet... In most countries of the world, the potential benefits an additional child are felt to be much greater than the cost of feeding one more mouth. But that's because they don't agonize over how they will buy more health insurance (no one can afford it anyway), how they will pay for a decent education (doesn't seem attainable anyway), how they will afford to add another bedroom, another bed, baby seats, cribs, toys, clothes, a new minivan and on and on. The things that seem to us in the US to be basic needs when raising a child are just not reasonably attainable realities in most countries. So another child just seems like it requires a bit more food, a few more hand-me-down clothes, and a few more prayers. (Small price to pay for gaining another possible source of family income.) Of course, this is much less resource-intensive! So the issue is more than just that some parts of the world are reproducing too often. Other parts of the world are also consuming too much. And declines in reproduction are usually met with increases in consumption. So what's the answer? Well, there's obviously more than one answer, but a big chunk of the solution is related to why this thread has a place on this list. Anita ------- End of Forwarded Message To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 13:51:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22566 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26532 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:01:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.a001.sprintmail.com (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26442 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP192.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.232]) by crow.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06768 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3804BBB6.2C880A5A@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:04:54 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re:Six Billion People and Counting! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3183 Seems to me that we're missing the point of Anita's original post. (Though there have been some real good comments added.) Anita (at least to me) is saying that we tend in this country to be looking at third worlders and saying they're responsible for ecological problems because they're having too many children. And we're not looking at what we're doing. Reminds me of our sanctimonious appeal to Central & South America to preserve their rain forests after we've destroyed the North American rain forests. It's always easier to look to others for blame. Maybe what we need to do is start with our own lives and reduce our consumption. Then look to setting an example for other North Americans and becoming active in spreading the word. If the rest of the world likes to emulate us, how about if we show them how to live in a developed area and not be such consumers. That is, let's preach what we practice rather than saying to other nations, "Do as I say, not do as I do." Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 14:12:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23163 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:12:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08933 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:27:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08921 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:27:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA28637 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id MAA21005; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:25:34 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma019520; Wed, 13 Oct 99 12:24:42 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:24:42 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF7D@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Joel Brooks Gruver'" Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: harnessing endophytic and epiphytic relationships Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:24:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3184 Joel, > I wondered about the potential for increased utilization of > endophytic and epiphytic microbe/plant relationships to manage > phytophagous insects. I used to collect literature on this subject, and I think it is possibly useful, perhaps for more than herbivore control. Here is the abstract of a paper I found a while back: "The filamentous fungal ascomycete Colletotrichum magna causes anthrancnose in cucurbit plants. Isolation of a nonpathogenic mutant of this species (path-1) resulted in maintained wild-ty levels of in vitro sporulation, spore adhesion, appressorial formation, and infection. Path-1 grew throughout host tissues as an endophyte and retained the wild-type host range, which indicates that the genetics involved in pathogenicity and host specificity are distinct. Prior infection with path-1 protected plants from disease caused by Colletotrichum and Fusarium. Genetic analysis of a cross between path-1 and wild-type strains indicated mutation of a single locus." (Freeman, S;Rodriguez, R, J 1993. Genetic Conversion of a Fungal Plant Pathogen to a Nonpathogenic, Endophytic Mutualist. Science 260:75-78) I'll bet that under breeding and selection, some of the changes that occur in crop varieties result from changes in the endophyte. Since most endophytes are passed through the seed, genetic changes or selection among strains could masquerade as genetic change in the plant. Fusarium moniliforme, for example, is practically an endophyte in corn. The relationship is highly evolved, and from an evolutionary perspective, F. moniliforme and related species might be on the road to becoming full-fledged endophytes. There is tremendous diversity in this portion of the Fusaria. My impression from cutting up a lot of corn stalks is that good corn varieties are able to keep the fungus under control and mostly confined to the lower few internodes until late in the life cycle of the plant. Maybe seed-transmitted hypovirulent strains exclude more harmful strains from the cornstalk niche? > What would be the benefits of having an endotoxin synthesized > by an endophytic organism rather than by the plant itself ? You could produce improved strains of endophytes and market them as seed enhancements. > What would be the benefits of having an endotoxin synthesized by > an adapted epiphytic microbe rather than the host plant ? Obviously it would facilitate use, since you would only need to treat the seed with the agent rather than breed the trait into the variety. This was done about ten years ago using a bacterial endophyte from bermudagrass as a vector for Bt in corn: "The field efficacy of the endophytic bacterium Clavibacter xyli subsp. cynodontis (Cxc) expressing the cry-IA(c) insecticidal protein gene of Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) was evaluated against European corn borer (Ostrinia nubilalis) (ECB) in field corn during 1990 in Maryland and during 1991-1993 in Nebraska. The engineered strains, referred to as Cxc/Bt, were introduced into corn seedlings using a wound inoculation technique or into corn seed via pressure infiltration technique. Two Cxc/Bt strains (MDR1.586, MDR1.1413) were evaluated in the pedigree LH119 x LH82. Plants were artificially infested near pollen shed with neonate EGB larvae and later dissected to determine the amount of ECB tunneling. In 1993, plots were machine-harvested to obtain yield data. Both Cxc/Bt strains significantly reduced ECB damage compared with plants colonised by wild-type Cxc and/or uncolonized control plants. In 1990, stain MDR1.586 reduced the number of tunnels by 64.0%. Field efficacy of strain MDR1.586 was further demonstrated in 1991 and 1992 as treated plants exhibited 57.1 and 65.0% fewer tunnels, respectively. Strain MDR1.1413 reduced the number of tunnels by 79.0% in 1992 and by 68.7% in 1993. Despite the significant control of ECB by strain MDR1.1413 in 1993, grain yield from Cxc/Bt-inoculated plants was not significantly different from the uninoculated control." (AU: Tomasino,-S.F.; Leister,-R.T.; Dimock,-M.B.; Beach,-R.M.; Kelly,-J.L. TI: Field performance of Clavibacter xyli subsp. cynodontis expressing the insecticidal protein gene cryIA(c) of Bacillus thuringiensis against European corn borer in field corn. SO: Biol-control. Orlando, Fla. : Academic Press, Inc. Sept 1995. v. 5 (3) p. 442-448.) I suspect this approach didn't work as well as Bt in the plant genome. Dale PS: People with tall fescue pasture need to be aware of the danger from endophyte toxins! To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 18:35:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28400 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23309 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:13:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23244 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:59:00 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:07:54 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, bluestem@webserf.net Subject: Fwd: Re: Organic and nutrition -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA23261 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3185 Hi Bart, Ron et all, I think that this string has covered some very important ground. When you finally get to mineralization and humus management you have arrived at the core of the issue as far as most of us are concerned. If any of you that want to talk about what organic is or isnt havent figured it out yet: When Bart says something you would be well advised not only to listen but to study what he has said. I am pleased to see that OFRF and Joan Gussow agree along with the OTA that soil culture and environmental impact should be at the core of what organic is. Unfortunately the marketers are still out there selling organic food as healthier, safer, purer food and saying little if any thing about what those core values are. Actions speak much louder than words. The problem, that I predicted in 1991, and manifested full blown in January thru March of 1998 is that the *average organic consumer* has not been educated very well. That *average consumer,* or at least 280,000 of them, generally use the words healthier, safer and purer when they speak of what organic means to them. So what was the organic industry/community doing between 1991 and 1998? Attending meeting after meeting finding every conceivable nit they could pick about the details of an impossibly detailed standard. Their consumers on the other hand were left to the marketers who took the easy way and propagated the *healthier, safer, and purer* perception. What of the producers? Well except for the small cadre of serious and technically competent growers, who have been to silent, they have gone about their business not meeting even the sketchy and confusing standards that exist in the industry. Why are the serious growers quiet? Managing an adequately designed *organic* agro-ecosystem is about five full time jobs. So now you ask of the standards setters in the organic community/industry those holy guardians of the ethics and morals of us all? I will only share with you an observation that I first made in late 92 or early 93 as I was analyzing my task at that time. I was convinced that if I put together the best team of 50 red-tape specialist from here inside the belt-way that I could not create a bureaucracy more convoluted, confusing, confused, entangled in minutiae, and down right oppressive than the organic industry/community had created and burdened themselves with. Not only does this observation hold today, its even worse. As has been said there is not enough data to justify the nutrition aspect of a health claim. If you persist in trying to play the residue card (as some have suggested here) then the conventional commodities producers that can do the required testing much cheaper than you can will simply state that their commodity or commodities meet the same residue standards as the organic commodities do and you lost that bluff and you fold, to late! I still cant figure out where the amalgam for the moniker of purer food comes from. I get this cartoon image of the convergence of the health and safety delusion merging with some notion that organic food is grown by spiritually advanced beings on small plots of land using no technology higher than a pointy stick and manure from contented and coddled livestock. Where does this go from here? I think that the writing is already on the wall. The commodity groups and the brand names will carry the day with green labels that are well financed, well researched and will be the growth sector. I think that these labels will stress sustainability and environmental impact with reduced use of pesticides and use of reduced risk pesticides applied in a bio-intensive IPM system as a side bar. The organic trade, true to form, will entangle themselves in a market and an intellectual cul-de-sac where they will grow old, happy to pursue one unsurmountable circular argument after another and never have to make a substantive decision or reveal the true nature of the organic myth to their consumers. Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 18:46:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28620 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21883 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:08:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21824 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA05172 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:53:29 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:02:34 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, WILSONDO@phibred.com Subject: The hidden input (was: Organic Farming is EXTREEMLY Cheaper) -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA21834 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3186 Hi Dale, Well I obviously have not learned my lesson and continue to get insnarled in these long strings. Let me start by acknowledging Ron*s comments, sorry about the technacratise. I am a second generation ag-bureaucrat and I*m damn proud of it. Let me begin with a quote: *The Man Born to Farming The grower of Trees, the gardener, the man born to farming, whose hands reach into the ground and sprout, to him the soil is a divine drug. He enters into death yearly, and comes back rejoicing. He has seen the light lie down in the dung heap, and rise again in the corn. His thought passes along the row ends like a mole. What miraculous seed has he swallowed that the unending sentence of his love flows out of his mouth like a vine clinging in the sunlight, and like water descending in the dark?* Wendell Berry, from: Farming: A Hand Book (1970) I will stand back to back with Wendell any time, I will also argue with him about the first thing I know that I disagree with him on and that was this recent NY Times OP/ED piece where he spoke confidently of rising support among the populace for farm issues, and while I hope he is right I think that he is wrong. I am sure that we could find plenty of other things to disagree on. Dale, I was speaking from the techie view also, I consistently speak to the management of the agro-ecosystem and believe perhaps naively that if the farmer covers that then all the other cultural/social issues will take care of themselves. Gracey and I have gone around on this one several times. As far as the business part of it goes I*m even worse than you are. I*m not against a farmer being a good business manager, making money and being economically stable its just that he is playing against such a stacked deck that he needs any sort of support that society might provide whether it be guaranteed true parity in the market place or his ordination as a priest with guaranteed support from the *community*. Yes, your concept of the consultant and insurance interface has potential, the insurance industry has not gotten to the level of insuring a system, I think that there has been some single practice insurance coverage as an incentive, but that is not as broad as you are intimating. We are continuing to look to the consultants and commodity groups to deliver a picture of current practice in pest management but all the elements of communication are not in place yet. We are getting there. Maybe I will be able to pursue this as these links are established. There are other potentials in an insured management system, that under a consultant/inspector is *certified* to be managing away from the use of pesticides. In the past year I have heard both from Bart and a Dow researcher that such a prescribed system could be a substitute for prescription use of restricted use pesticides. In other words if you don*t have a system in place that demonstrates that you are using best management practices(BMP is my techno speak for the combination of soil nutrient balancing, humus management(including by definition crop rotations that integrate grass legume sods and LIVESTOCK) and bio-intensive IPM) and that pesticidal use is your last resort you just are not going to get access to the restricted use pesticides... To me these lines of thought go deep to the core of the thing and that is the disappearance of the farmer. So we have to (no I don*t want to and I*m really uncomfortable with it, BUT!) look at the implications of precision agriculture where management of a farm/production unit/processing unit might be integrated unto the management of the landscape which is integrated into the management of the watershed and bio-region. I think that the absence of a cadre of agro-eco managers (techno speak for farmers) will drive us to this. This was what I was trying to get at by asking Ann to come in on the training/education thing. I have been playing this tune for twenty years. If this idealized small to moderate sized (optimized) farm is what you want and the old practitioners are disappearing then you*s got to give us thousands of able practitioners now!!! If any thing there are fewer such practitioners than there were twenty years ago. The way things are going we may have to force Wendell as well as Paul, Steve and the other real farmers on the list to stay on life support so our children and grandchildren will at least know what one looks like! Maybe we could have them stuffed like *Trigger*. I am looking at all this through the macroscope of what H. T.(Tom) Odum is now calling emergetics, in its earlier incarnations it was energetics, and while the vertically integrated, precision farmed, mega unit don*t look as good as I think the optimized moderate sized farm would look, it looks regrettably plausible. I keep coming back to the last thing that HT said to me when I saw him a couple of years back: *the thing is that because of what agriculture is you can subsidize the hell out of it.* I have been chewing on that like a koan ever since, it could easily knock my concepts of sustainability into a cocked hat. *A Warning to My Readers Do not think me gentle because speak in praise of gentleness, of elegant because I honor the grace that keeps this world. I am a man crude as any, gross of speech, intolerant, stubborn, angry, full of fits and furies. That I may have spoken well at times, is not natural. A wonder is what it is.* Wendell Berry, from A Part (1980) Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 13 20:15:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29887 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10933 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:33:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from navel.ucr.edu (navel.ucr.edu [138.23.225.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA10926 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from batch4101.ucr.edu ([138.23.190.166]) by navel.ucr.edu with SMTP for sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:32:38 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19991013162956.009264a0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: milt/pop.ucr.edu@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:33:06 -0700 To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu From: Milt McGiffen Subject: Can you point me towards information on evolution of organic ag, effectson health, and economic and social impacts? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3187 Can you help me find information on the evolution of organic farming, principally in CALIFORNIA and other Mediterranean climates, including: 1) The historical and philosophical evolution of organic agriculture 2) Human health, nutrition and food quality 3) Economic and social impacts of organic farming systems. Any references or other contacts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help. Milt McGiffen Department of Botany and Plant Sciences University of California Riverside, CA 92521-0124 FAX: 909-787-5717 Phone: 909-787-2430 Email: milt@ucrac1.ucr.edu http://cnas.ucr.edu/~bps/mcgiffen.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Oct 12 22:16:16 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09231 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:16:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05679 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:45:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05592 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA21152; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29066; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:48:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.panups X-Conference: panna.panups From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: POPs Negotiations To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 128 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3188 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Progress and Challenges at International POPs Negotiations October 12, 1999 Negotiators from 115 countries met in Geneva, Switzerland last month for the third round of United Nations-sponsored negotiations to develop an international treaty on Persistent Organic Pollutants (POPs). During the session, governments agreed to eliminate and phase out eight of twelve POPS chemicals targeted for action by the UN. The POPs negotiations were also attended by more than 70 NGO representatives, including activists from PAN International's five regional coordinating centers and other organizations participating in the International POPs Elimination Network (IPEN). IPEN is a new and influential coalition made up of 180 NGOs from 40 countries. POPs are highly toxic chemicals that can travel long distances and last for decades in the environment. They are linked to reproductive abnormalities, immune system dysfunction, neurological defects and cancer in humans and wildlife. The UN's "short list" of twelve POPs includes the pesticides endrin, mirex, toxaphene, chlordane, heptachlor, aldrin, dieldrin and DDT; the industrial chemicals hexachlorobenzene (also used as a pesticide) and PCBs; and the industrial byproducts dioxins and furans. Government negotiators in Geneva agreed to eliminate production and use of the pesticides aldrin, endrin and toxaphene without exemptions. They also agreed to phase out chlordane, dieldrin, heptachlor, mirex and hexachlorobenzene, but may consider limited country-specific exemptions. Significant controversy remains regarding elimination of the remaining chemicals on the list: PCBs, dioxins and furans, as well as the infamous pesticide DDT, which remains registered for public health purposes in approximately 20 countries. Negotiators also discussed criteria by which new POPs will be added to the action list, and technical and financial assistance for POPs phase outs and related activities. National participation was noticeably unbalanced. Many northern countries sent large delegations (22 people in the case of the U.S.), while developing countries were often represented by one or two people. This frequently led to inequities when key topics were discussed in contact groups held at the same time as the plenary negotiations. The use of DDT to control insect vectors that carry diseases including malaria was a particular focus of debate during the negotiations. Delegates from several malaria-affected countries reported their governments had implemented successful DDT-free anti-malaria programs. Such programs include release of natural enemies of mosquitoes, public education campaigns, and elimination of insect breeding sites, as well as use of non-POPs pesticides including synthetic pyrethroids. Additional examples of successful DDT phase- outs were documented in a World Wildlife Fund study of disease vector management released during the Geneva negotiations. Other countries reported, however, that they lack resources to establish and maintain such programs. The persistence of malaria as a significant threat to the lives of millions underscores not just the need for redoubled efforts to implement existing alternatives to DDT and develop additional control measures, but that political leadership and financial commitments are required in order for this to occur. IPEN participating organizations called for a DDT elimination strategy that combines adequate funding for development and implementation of effective, affordable alternative vector control measures with interim exceptions in specific situations and rigorous enforcement of bans against illegal DDT uses. IPEN participants at the negotiations praised the leadership of the European Union, Iceland, Thailand, Norway, Gambia and El Salvador in developing a strong agreement to ban POPs. The U.S. and Australia were criticized by IPEN groups for supporting several loopholes that could indefinitely delay chemical phase-outs. NGOs addressed many issues during plenary and working group meetings. Regarding dioxins, Greenpeace and others noted that U.S. proposals would actually speed the spread of dioxin-generating technologies, such as waste incineration, in the developing world. Members of the Indigenous Environmental Network repeatedly noted the horrific impacts of POPs on their health, traditional foods and cultures. PAN North America joined the National Toxics Network of Australia and others in condemning wording that could allow important POPs data to be treated as confidential business information. PAN Asia and the Pacific circulated a letter calling for the addition of endosulfan (an organochlorine pesticide widely used in agriculture) to the POPs action list. The next POPs negotiation session, to be held in March in Bonn, Germany, will be the last opportunity to ensure the concrete details needed to eliminate the 12 targeted POPs are incorporated within the draft treaty. The POPs treaty is due to be completed in late 2000 and signed by participating governments in Spring 2001, and to come into force in 2003. NGOs interested in participating in efforts to strengthen the POPs treaty and eliminate POPs in their communities and countries are urged to contact IPEN and/or PAN at the addresses and websites listed below for additional information and action suggestions. Sources: IPEN press releases September 6, 1999 and September 11, 1999; WWF press release September 11, 1999; Greenpeace press release September 10, 1999; presentation by WHO representative at IPEN Conference, September 4, 1999; National Toxics Network (Australia) report on INC3, September 25, 1999; Disease Vector Management for Public Health and Conservation, Patricia Matteson, editor, World Wildlife Fund, August 1999; "Debating the Dilemma of a Global DDT Ban," San Francisco Chronicle August 31, 1999; PCB Research and Information Project Web News report on INC3 September 13, 1999; "Phaseout of World's Worst Chemicals Closer," Environment News Service, September 13, 1999; "UN Progress Slow on 'Dirty Dozen' Pollutants Ban," Reuters News Service, September 15, 1999. Contact: PANNA. For more information on POPs and IPEN, also see IPEN's website at http://www.ipen.org; for more information on DDT and alternative vector management see WWF's website at http://www.worldwildlife.org/toxics/ =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Oct 14 03:18:33 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04550 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 03:18:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA24881 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 02:46:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24854 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 02:46:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (dynamic24.pm02.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.88]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id XAA10833; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: Subject: Farm-City Celebration Dinner Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:46:02 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3189 A Beyond Organic news flash!!! The Farm-City Celebration Dinner Sunday, November 7, 1999 6:00 pm Social Hour, 7:00 pm Dinner One Market Restaurant, San Francisco An incredible dinner, with fresh produce and food from local and organic farms, prepared by some of the Bay Area's finest restaurants: * Oliveto * One Market * Chez Panisse * Montage * Hawthorne Lane With wines generously donated by the Chalone Wine Group. Come share this spectacular, family-style meal and help build the Farm-City connection. Cost: $45 per person Table Sponsorships available, too. Call: 510-222-5091 for tickets. Reserve early, seating is limited. The Farm-City Celebration Dinner is the kick-off event of the 1999 California Farm Conference: Cultivating the Farm-City Connection. The 3-day conference includes: tours, short courses and workshops on a variety of agricultural issues, along with plenary talks by Michael Ableman, Paul Buxman, Sibella Kraus and Dr. Bill Heffernan. Details: http://www.caff.org/farmconference.html The California Farm Conference is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization dedicated to promoting and supporting the viability of California's small and family farms. ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 09:56:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08058 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15708 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:19:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web604.mail.yahoo.com (web604.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA15621 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:19:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19991014131739.10280.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.204.82.166] by web604.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:17:39 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:17:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: monsters that change? To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3190 good morning SANETeers, this came through my email and i thought you might enjoy it...kate Missing from the following account is any mention of how corporate mea culpas and 'reaching out' to critics have become the lastest new tactic in the PR world. According to PR Watch, a consultant named Peter Sandman has been traveling widely thoughout corporate America advocating this approach. Brian. >Guardian Specials on GM > >How Monsanto's mind was changed > >In spring the US giant was sure its GM technology was unbeatable. Then one >man convinced the organization that the game was up > >GM food: special report > >John Vidal >Guardian (London) Saturday October 9, 1999 > >On July 14 a group of powerful Americans met secretly at the Willard hotel >near the White House to listen to an English academic who had spent much >of his life working in developing countries with peasant farmers. > >The nine members of the Monsanto board of directors have serious political >clout. Apart from Robert Shapiro, the visionary head of the $12bn a year >corporation, and senior bankers and Harvard academics, it includes Mickey >Kantor, former head of the US commerce department, and the former heads of >the US social security department and the US environmental protection >agency. > >They were there to meet Gordon Conway, the president of the Rockefeller >Foundation in New York, whose remit is to help the world's disadvantaged. >Mr Shapiro, who vows he is working for the world's poor with GM foods, had >invited Professor Conway, formerly vice chancellor of Sussex university, >to address the board as part of the corporation's commitment to consult >more widely following the GM furore in Europe sparked by the so-called >Terminator gene. > >Because Rockefeller had put more than $100m into public research into GM >crops, Prof Conway was thought to be an ally; he was expected to make a >friendly, gentlemanly speech, perhaps with some mild advice, that would go >no further than the four walls of the Willard. > >But privately, Prof Conway, along with increasing sections of the US >intellectual community, deplored the corporation's style and global >strategy. > >Meltdown of confidence > >In Europe it had alienated millions, he believed, and was threatening a >trade war and long term damage to the prospects of the poor. The >corporation with a reputation for arrogance and secrecy was seen to be >responsible for a meltdown of confidence in science and big business and a >backlash against US agriculture. Moreover, Monsanto's effective ownership >of Terminator technology would allow the corporation, the second biggest >agribusiness in the world, to develop plants that bore sterile seeds - a >move that had angered farmers in the developing world. > >Prof Conway had given Monsanto little warning, even when he had visited >the company's St Louis HQ a few weeks earlier. But at the Willard he went >straight for Monsanto's guts. For more than a hour, the professor lectured >the board: change tack, or bring the wrath of the scientific, political, >and global community down on them. > >"Admit that you do not have all the answers," he said. "Commit yourselves >to prompt, full, and honest sharing of data. This is not the time for a >new PR offensive but for a new relationship based on honesty, full >disclosure, and a very uncertain shared future." > >Prof Conway argued that the possible adverse consequences for billions of >developing world farmers outweighed any social benefits in protecting the >Terminator technology. What the Terminator gene did, he said, was >effectively kill the process that let farmers sow their own seeds, and >subsistence farmers were too poor to buy new seed. The possible >consequences were terrible. In short, he told them, Monsanto was socially >irresponsible and the public was alienated. He urged a "global public >dialogue" that would air all sides of the issues. > >Terse statement The board were shocked. But they did not suspect that Prof >Conway had warned the press what he intended to say. Within hours >Rockefeller had issued seven challenges to Monsanto. "It was like a boil >had been lanced, a milestone," said one person who was party to the >talks. "Someone in authority had for the first time held this monolithic >corporation up to public accountability." Monsanto was furious, and issued >a terse statement: "The meeting was frank and productive. We will continue >to reach out to people like Prof Conway to discuss the challenges and >opportunities of biotechnology applications in agriculture." > >The Conway meeting was seminal. Until then, about the only genuine >"reaching out" the company had done was to its lawyers, publicists, >lobbyists, and friends in governments. It had dismissed the social and >ethical critiques of environment, church, and consumers groups, and in >July was hoping to ride out the storm. Mr Shapiro was confident: for the >six months of 1999, the company earned $476m, up 5% on 1998, and its >income had grown 28%. In particular, it had no intention of backing down >on Terminator. Its only retreat was to admit it had misunderstood European >sensibilities and been "naive" in trying to win fast approval. > >Until the spring Monsanto had broad support in the US. Wall Street and the >White House still favoured the company, whose shares were priced at $47 >each, and analysts were saying it was primed for success. Mr Shapiro could >tell shareholders that the flooding of the US market with GM crops had >been the most "successful launch of any technology ever, including the >plough". He anticipated a 300% expansion in the two years to a staggering >183m acres. Nor was Europe a problem: "Eventually, scientific proof >should win over reluctant and skeptical consumers," he said. But, since >the spring, little had gone right. In April a manufacturer of veggie >burgers stopped using GM soybeans. The Wall Street Journal then reported >that the GM controversy was "beginning to be felt in the US". Some farmers >started to avoid GM crops, and the powerful US grain industry was saying >it had nearly stopped shipping to Europe - a $200m market . > >By the summer, the first GM crops were being destroyed by US activists and >the press had begun to widely report global disillusionment. Europe was >deteriorating even further, with supermarkets disavowing GM products and >activists digging up crops. Meanwhile, the Clinton administration was >reportedly "dreading starting a trade war over GM because public sentiment >is so strongly against". > >And in poor countries, Terminator was becoming a political issue. India >and Zimbabwe had effectively banned the use of the technology, and the >world's largest group of agricultural research organisations had condemned >it. By May, observers noted a definite cooling by Dan Glickman, the US >agriculture secretary, who was warning of "profound consequences" if the >GM situation did not improve. For the first time, he encouraged US firms >to voluntarily label products. Monsanto was reportedly furious. > >Told to keep quiet > >Mr Glickman then upped the stakes, warning GM could hurt small farmers. He >reportedly said that Mr Shapiro should keep quiet "because every time he >opens his mouth, US agriculture loses millions more bushels of agriculture >exports". > >By the summer, US corn exports to the EU were reported to have dropped 96% >in a year. To Monsanto's horror, farmers were beginning to choose >traditional seeds rather than risk the new. One giant processor announced >it would pay extra for traditional soybeans. Within weeks, Monsanto was >further exposed: the British AstraZeneca GM company said it would not >commercialise its own Terminator-type technology. > >By August Mr Shapiro was on the ropes. Mr Glickman said he would >investigate whether the US agriculture department was too close to >companies like Monsanto, and the message was picked up on Wall Street. >Deutsche, the largest European bank, had in May recommended institutional >investors to sell Monsanto shares - within days the price had dropped; >when Deutsche repeated the advice in September, other analysts joined in. >Monsanto stock had lost 35% of its value in a year, while Wall Street as a >whole went up 30%. > >The Conway message finally got through. After heated debate in the >company, Monsanto's president, Hendrik Ver faillie, went 10 days ago to >the US senate to say that it "would now act to meet concerns". He then >travelled secretly to Britain to talk to the Soil Association and others, >promising to help farmers with traditional cross-breeding. > >On Monday, Mr Shapiro wrote to Prof Conway to say the company would no >longer pursue research into the Terminator technology. On Tuesday he was >due in Britain at the Greenpeace business conference but pulled out. But >his interactive video link showed how much Mr Shapiro had changed. Instead >of a beam and a twinkle, the screen showed a pale and drawn man: "We >forgot to listen", he said. "We have irritated and antagonised more people >than we have persuaded our confidence in biotechnology has been widely >seen as arogance and condecension." He promised wide consultation and to >listen carefully. The questions remain, but, said Prof Conway, "it's a >start". >=================== > >We forgot to listen, says Monsanto > >GM company chief takes blame for public relations failures and pledges to >answer safety concerns > >GM food: special report > >John Vidal >Guardian (London) Thursday October 7, 1999 > >Bob Shapiro, head of the embattled GM company Monsanto, yesterday took >personal blame for the meltdown in global public opinion over >biotechnology and promised a new dialogue with society. > >Looking drawn and troubled, with an important meeting with reportedly >upset shareholders ahead of him, Mr Shapiro was conciliatory: "We started >with the conviction that biotechnology was useful and valuable but we have >tended to see it as our task to convince people that we were right and >that people with different points of view were wrong", he told the >Greenpeace business conference in London, attended by captains of >industry, other GM companies and eco-activists. > >"We have irritated and antagonised more people than we have persuaded. Our >confidence in biotechnology has been widely seen as arrogance and >condescension because we thought it was our job to persuade. But too often >we forgot to listen." > >Mr Shapiro said Monsanto did not have the answers to the public's concerns >about safety, genetic pollution, ethics and the power of corporations, but >was now committed to engaging in dialogue with society to find solutions. >He said: "None of these concerns is trivial. Each is valid and needs >examination. We want to participate constructively in the process. It >means listening carefully." > >Mr Shapiro said Monsanto sought common ground with his critics: "We are >listening, and will seek it whenever its available, and will seek >solutions that work for a wide range of people." > >He added that the company was prepared, as new products were developed, to >engage in consultation with people "at an earlier level than we have been >doing in the past". > >But Greenpeace's director, Lord Melchett, accused Mr Shapiro of being a >bully. Monsanto, he said, had fundamentally misunderstood the changes >taking place in society and people's changing priorities. "The vast >majority are not anti science, or Luddite. But they are increasingly aware >and mistrustful of the combination of big science and big business. Your >vision promotes false promises of easy alternatives via short term >technical fixes and increases the imbalance of power between multinational >corporations and farmers in the developing world. > >"People are becoming more confident in their understanding of what is at >stake and more resolute in their ability to resist. There has been an >unprecedented, permanent and irreversible shift in the political >landscape," he said. > >Mr Shapiro said that US polls consistently showed that opposition to >biotechnology came from the poor and uneducated, whereas >university-educated people and those most familiar with the science were >most supportive. > > >================================= > > >*** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material >is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest >in receiving the included information for research and educational >purposes. *** > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 12:52:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13153 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27074 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:53:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27065 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:53:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA02891; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:44:26 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma002321; Thu, 14 Oct 99 10:44:04 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:44:04 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF89@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Kate Smith'" Subject: RE: monsters that change? Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:44:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3191 Dear Kate, >> He (Hendrik Ver faillie) then travelled secretly to Britain >> to talk to the Soil Association and others >> Looking drawn and troubled, with an important meeting with >> reportedly upset shareholders ahead of him, Mr Shapiro was >> conciliatory: >> He promised wide consultation and to >> listen carefully. you wrote: > Missing from the following account is any mention of how > corporate mea culpas and 'reaching out' to critics have become > the lastest new tactic in the PR world. Your post really bothers me. 1. I don't think they (we) are monsters, just all too human 2. Your tone is sort of like "kick em good when they're down" 3. You are not adding anything to the debate, just engaging in personal attack. The people I know in Monsanto, and in the industry in general are operating with good intentions. Sure, they want to make money, but they believe (and so do I) that the current GMO products are good, healthful, useful to farmers of all sizes, and mostly harmless to the environment. Their big fault is being politically naive. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 13:01:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13313 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:01:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15689 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:22:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15669 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.224.155.161] (216-224-154-101.stk.jps.net [216.224.154.101]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA19198; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:20:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: fullcircle@mail.jps.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991013162956.009264a0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:27:14 -0800 To: Milt McGiffen From: Marcie Rosenzweig Subject: Re: Can you point me towards information on evolution of organic ag, effectson health, and economic and social impacts? Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3192 Milt, Sounds like a book in the making. I hope we all get credit in the forward. Try these resouces. >1) The historical and philosophical evolution of organic agriculture Rodale's books and website UC Davis Small Farm Center UC SAREP program at UC Davis California Certified Organic Farmers and Organic Farming and Reserach Foundation through their websites. California Clean Growers through their website. >2) Human health, nutrition and food quality The archives of this list and it's search engine http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >3) Economic and social impacts of organic farming systems. Again California Certified Organic Farmers and Organic Farming and Reserach Foundation through their websites. UC Davis Small Farm Center, particularly Karen Klonsky's (SP) work on economics UC SAREP program at UC Davis - Gail Feenstra Jill Auburn through SAN/SARE > >Any references or other contacts would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks for your help. You're welcome, Marcie A. Rosenzweig To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 13:39:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14225 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:39:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23184 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:47:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iatp.org (iatp-2.InnovSoftD.com [208.141.36.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22939 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from markbert ([208.141.36.112]) by mail.iatp.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with SMTP id 139; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:50:53 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991014114401.00b3a100@mail.iatp.org> X-Sender: mritchie@mail.iatp.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:44:01 -0500 To: "Wilson, Dale" , sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu From: "Mark Ritchie" Subject: RE: monsters that change? Cc: "'Kate Smith'" In-Reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF89@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3193 I normally do not comment on these items, but I think the attacks by Monsanto on reporters, farmers, scientists, activists, public officials, etc. is very extreme and should be kept in mind when dealing with them. I have seen nothing but more and more assaults coming from Monsanto. Am I missing something?? Mark Mark Ritchie, President Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy 2105 First Ave. South Minneapolis, Minnesota 55404 USA 612-870-3400 (phone) 612-870-4846 (fax) mritchie@iatp.org www.iatp.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 14:08:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14637 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14400 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:26:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14337 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10592 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id NAA21983 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380612C9.CD73CB3E@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:28:41 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: [Fwd: N&O article on hog farm regs (fwd)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3194 Thought y'all might be interested in this article. It was posted on the hog listserver. I think this is an amazing first step! Russ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: N&O article on hog farm regs (fwd) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:48:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Environmental Resource Program Reply-To: checchogs@listserv.oit.unc.edu To: checchogs@listserv.oit.unc.edu Here's the N&O article on hog farm regs. Kathleen Gray Environmental Resource Program, UNC-CH (919) 966-9799 kathleen.gray@sph.unc.edu ************************************** News & Observer Thursday, October 14, 1999 Hog farms get tough rules By ANNE SAKER, Staff Writer The state issued stringent rules Wednesday for a post-flood hog industry in Eastern North Carolina, instructing producers how to cope now with overflowing waste lagoons and warning that badly damaged farms in the 100-year flood plain will not be allowed to rebuild. The Department of Environment and Natural Resources also told farmers that if their waste lagoons cannot handle any more material, they cannot restock their hog barns. They also are not permitted to send any waste into rivers. Nearly a month after Hurricane Floyd caused the worst flooding in recent state history, the department released its plan to handle the crisis and to help the state's second-largest industry recover from the disaster. Last month's flood consumed about 40 hog farms Down East, breaching lagoons and sending thousands of gallons of waste into rivers and streams. Another 400 operations are dealing with lagoons still swollen to dangerous levels. About 28,000 hogs were killed. Department spokesman Don Reuter said the rules will be formally presented today to the Environmental Management Commission, the department's politically appointed policy-making body, whichcould change the policy. This month, hog producers asked through their Washington lobbyists that they be granted exemptions from environmental regulations so that they can get back on their feet. But Gov. James Hunt has voiced his support for more careful regulation of hog farms in Eastern North Carolina. And with onetime environmental lobbyist Bill Holman now at the helm of DENR, the state is using the Floyd flood as the opportunity for a firmer approach. To address the more immediate problems facing hog farms in the 30 counties most gravely affected by the flood, the department first said all farms that can comply with their existing permits and waste management plans must do so. If a farm cannot comply, it must submit an emergency plan to the department by the end of this month. Among other things, the producer must promise to: Remove as much of the waste from the lagoon "as economically practicable" to a facility that can handle it. Restock animals only at the level that the lagoon can handle. "In extreme cases," the department said, "this may require complete depopulation of the facility." Prevent any discharge of waste into surface waters. Limit the amount of waste sprayed on lands still saturated with floodwater. Submit by Jan. 31 a report to the department on how the producer operated operated during the October emergency plan. In addition, the department said that as the flood crisis passes, producers should talk with department representatives about the conditions of their waste lagoons. The department also will decide whether a farm is ready to restock. Most significant, the department relied upon federal Environmental Protection Agency regulation to tell producers that if their facilities are more than 50 percent damaged, they will not be permitted to rebuild in the 100-year flood plain. About 200 hog farms are in the 100-year flood plain, although Reuter said the department has not determined how many of those ultimately could be out of business. But even if a farm is repairable, the state would require an alternative to lagoons for waste management, Reuter said. The N.C. Pork Council, which represents many of the tate's 2,500 hog producers, kept its counsel on the new rules Wednesday. Spokeswoman Beth Anne Mumford said that she had not yet read them but that her group has been working with the department to assess the damage. "We have been working with DENR and the Division of Water Quality to do everything we can to ensure the integrity of our water systems and minimize any potential impact from the hurricane," she said. "We're going to look at this document and go through the provisions. We're certainly going to continue to work with DENR on this and with the producers." The Southern Environmental Law Center has been pushing the state for years to get tougher with the hog industry. Wednesday, center lawyer Michelle Nowlin said the new regulations were a step in the right direction. "What the department outlines here is a very reasonable approach," Nowlin said. "It requires producers to notify the department before they restock. What the pork industry had initially requested was something saying that they wanted these facilities to restock regardless of the status of the lagoons. "While you can certainly understand the motivation, it seems to me to be horribly short-sighted," she said. Anne Saker can be reached at 829-8955 or asaker@nando.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 14:52:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15318 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:52:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28463 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:54:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28419 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.203 (mx3-60.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.203]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00112; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:52:53 -0500 Message-ID: <38061C04.78C6@smallfarms.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:08:04 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Another Farmer's Wife. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3195 Morning, We have another Farmer's Wife among us. She's also from Nebraska, is articulate, has a broad perspective on farming, and shares her life in a very personal way. See: http://www.newsweek.com. Go to the search window on the left side bar and enter "farming". Scroll down to My Turn, Rhoda Walker, October 4, 1999. As a community of farmers and people who work with farmers, what are we doing, what can we do to help her? glenn Buy from the Farmer http://www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 16:14:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17333 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13039 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:16:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13007 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] (adsl-63-192-219-119.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.192.219.119]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17020 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:12:31 -0700 To: SANET-mg From: Misha Subject: RE: monsters that change? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3196 DEARest Dale: The /American Heritage Dictionary/ second college edition defines "monster" thusly: 1. A creature having a bizarre or frightening shape or appearance. 4. A very large animal, plant, or object. 5. One who inspires horror or disgust. From the Latin /monstrum/, portent, from /monere/, to warn. If you can come up with a better word to describe a disembodied entity that has the powers of an embodied one ("corporation"), that is large enough to influence mass opinion and affect the health and well-being of millions of people it does not know and whose interests it does not regard as important, and that has inspired horror and disgust among hundreds of millions of people worldwide... ...I would love to hear it. In the meantime, I personally regard Monsanto as monstrous, in the etymological connotation of "a warning" or portent. Your regard for this corporation as a beleaguered underdog seems to ignore a vast mosaic of facts in which the news story that Kate forwarded is just one teensy tile. And your blaming her for the story's content, and attributing to her anything other than the forward is uncalled for. As for your comment: > I don't think they (we) are monsters, just all too human Check out the work of a young woman who wrote at the dawn of industrialism about the problem of humanity, technology, monstrosity, and misplaced attempts at divinity. Her name was Mary Wollstonecraft, the novel was /Frankenstein, or a Modern Prometheus/ (published 1818), and she wrote it after a night of story-telling at Lake Geneva, in Switzerland, where she was hanging out with her beau, Percy Bysshe Shelley, and his buddy, George Gordon, Lord Byron. Byron had already written a three-stanza poem, /Prometheus/, and Shelley published the play /Prometheus Unbound/ in 1820. While you're at it, check out Aeschylus's /Prometheus Bound/ (ca. 430 BCE). We can talk about Prometheus--and Epimetheus--some other time. It seems to mesh with your notion of how well-intentioned folks in industry are regarding their deployment of technical solutions to social problems. In closing, this little quote from Zeus to Promethus: "Prometheus, you are glad that you have outwitted me and stolen fire...but I will give men as the price for fire an evil thing in which they may all be glad of heart while they embrace their own destruction." --Hesiod, /Works and Days/ 55 peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nature bats last, and Mitch Williams is pitching. --motto of the Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 19:46:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20981 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10812 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:03:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web1405.mail.yahoo.com (web1405.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA10804 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:03:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19991014231351.20512.rocketmail@web1405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.60.24.150] by web1405.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:13:51 PDT Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:13:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen M. Apatow" Subject: USDA: Farmers & Y2K To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3197 October 14, 1999 Contact: Stephen M. Apatow President & Executive Director, Humanitarian Resource Institute Eastern USA: (203) 668-0282 Western USA: (775) 884-4680 Internet: http://www.humanitarian.net Email: sma@humanitarian.net FARMERS NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE MILLENNIUM BUG CAN AFFECT FARM EQUIPMENT: PORK, DAIRY AND GRAIN OPERATIONS NEED TO DEVELOP CONTINGENCY PLANS Electronic scales, moisture testers, grain drying equipment and crop storage ventilation systems used in grain elevators, can all be effected by the millennial bug. Owners of pork, poultry and dairy operations across the United States need to be sure their climate-control devices will not collapse on New Year's Day. Producers with livestock feeding or milking systems, environmental control mechanisms in barns or confined feeding operations are advised to contact manufacturers to find out how they might be affected. According to the U.S. Senate Special Committee on the Year 2000 Problem, "the cost for small businesses to regain lost operational capability for any mission critical failure will range from $20,000 to $3.5 million." Shortages of software/harware supplies, transport problems, technical assistance and support could be significant after the New Year and must be calculated into contingency planning. University of Minnesota Extension Service has constructed a farm Y2K site: Complete with a farm checklist, farm Y2K fact sheet, and downloadable (as well as web-based) Powerpoint presentation (45-60 minutes) on farm Y2K awareness, inventory and assessment, and contingency planning - complete with presenters notes: http://www3.extension.umn.edu/projects/y2k/farm.html South Dakota State Cooperative Extension Agriculture Y2K Website: http://www.abs.sdstate.edu/ecs/home/y2k.html For additional information and detailed reports on the Year 2000 Technology Problem visit the: Humanitarian Resource Institute Global Y2K Infrastructure Risks Web Site http://www.humanitarian.net/y2keconomic.html ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 14 20:21:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21320 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03298 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:38:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03288 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.235 (mx3-92.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.235]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03441; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:36:36 -0500 Message-ID: <38066C95.2ED1@smallfarms.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:51:48 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Organic and nutrition-reply Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3198 Hi Ted, Allan and others: Dont worry about it. We just go out flanked, out numbered and out marketed. It happens and itll happen again. Remember Betamax, and 8 track tapes? Perhaps the best example is Larry Ellison and Oracle, Corp. Ellison may not have had the best software system for IBMs, but he out market and out sold his competition. We still have the advantage of being the best. A marketing person at USDA recently told me tongue in cheek about shamelessly promoting. Lets take advantage of our opportunties to shamelessly market and promote sustainable, organic, small farm products. This is a new trick for most of us whose responsibilities call for us to be on the farm, in the lab, or validating research findings. Im advocating telling customers, Our cultivation systems and products are the best available. WE ARE the sustainable, organic, safe, small family farm community of producers. Make the statements first, then present data to back our claims, and not accumulating data to come to a conclusion. This isnt scientific, its marketing. glenn Buy from the Farmer http://www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 00:31:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24333 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25532 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:56:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25111 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.37.158.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.37.158]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20630; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3805B928.647FE710@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 04:06:17 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Addison CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition - Brix testing References: <38020E93.1AFBBC09@sprintmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3199 read the books by arden anderson, sold by acres usa. he is very good on that subject. Keith Addison wrote: > Alex McGregor wrote: > > >At the Southern SAWG Conference in Memphis about 2 years ago, a farm > >consultant did a demonstration of Brix testing- measuring the amount of > >sugar in fruit with a refractometer; there is a direct correlation > >between sugar content and mineral content. So, the higher the sugar, the > >higher the mineral content. > > Alex, do you know of a scientific reference for the relation between > sugar content and mineral content? I've had some very interesting > results with refractometer tests, but haven't had any luck trying to > pin down the basic principle, which has stopped me using the results > a few times (for fear of attack!). > > Keith > Hong Kong > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 00:32:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24344 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26594 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:57:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26518 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:57:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.37.158.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.37.158]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22240; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3805D680.4D229C63@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:11:28 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Six Billion People and Counting! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3200 The reality has nothing to do with statistics, food, etc. The real fact is that there is a poor woman in Africa (let's pick that country), who already has five kids. One is tied onto her back. She has to find a way to feed all the family. Then her husband goes off to the city, apparently to "look for work".. If he ever gets any, he is almost certain to not send it home to his struggling wife, but spends it on himself, maybe gets drunk, loafs around, gets some other woman pregnant, before he finally loafs home to berate his overburdened wife for something she has struggled to do that he should have been home to do. The woman is gone to the fields. There, with a child on her back, she uses a heavy, clumsy hoe on hard clay fields. No one ever told her to incorporate the rice hulls she throws away ever day, or the corn shucks. After a hard day's digging with a miserable tool, she has to carry pails of water on her head, from a water pump a mile away, to water the plantings. Then head for home with more water in a pail on her head, and carrying some of the wood she picked up here and there, to stagger home and cook a meal for a man who complains about it, and 6 hungry children, then cleans up and lies down on a hard soil floor to try to sleep a little before she has to struggle up the next morning to another hard day. So why would she have yet one more child? Ask that dastardly male whose sole interest in life is his sex affairs and food. STOP blaming the women, who are mere victims. They take all the abuse, all the workload and all the responsibility. You think I am prejudiced? Ha. Just read and read and read. Or go live there and see for yourself. STERILIZE males !! and the world situation is solved. Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: > Six Billion People and Counting! > > Walker Bennet brought to our attention the matter of sixth billionth > person to the planet, and I have a few comments. As I agree that > population and access to appropriate contraceptive methods is a very > important topic, I am usually frustrated by the direction that > discussions of world over-population take. It is usually argued that > it is the sheer number of people that is depleating our resources and > increasing contamination and poverty. But I think this is only a > small part of the issue. I think that the real issue is the > amount of resource depleation and pollution PER person. The > statistic that sticks out in my mind is that an average person > (whatever that is!) in a "developed" country uses 12 (that's TWELVE) > times the resources of an average "developing" country person. In > other words, if I have one child, that child is the same as my > counterpart in Bangladesh or Nigeria having 12 children. Wow. Now, > one wonders, who is *really* overpopulating the earth? > > Another part of the story... Statistics also clearly show that as > infant mortality rates decline and the opportunity for education > increases, fertility rates decline (much more so than the > availability of contraceptives alone). That is, when people can be > sure that a given child is likely to survive to adulthood and they > are willing and able to invest in that child, they are likely to have > fewer children. (The move from agrarian society to non agrarian is > also an important factor.) Having lived in and married someone from > a "third world" country, I live somewhere between the two realities, > and I experience the differences everytime I try to explain to > my in laws (for example) why we haven't had children yet... In most > countries of the world, the potential benefits an additional child > are felt to be much greater than the cost of feeding one more mouth. > But that's because they don't agonize over how they will buy more > health insurance (no one can afford it anyway), how they will pay for > a decent education (doesn't seem attainable anyway), how they will > afford to add another bedroom, another bed, baby seats, cribs, toys, > clothes, a new minivan and on and on. The things that seem to us in > the US to be basic needs when raising a child are just not reasonably > attainable realities in most countries. So another child just seems > like it requires a bit more food, a few more hand-me-down clothes, > and a few more prayers. (Small price to pay for gaining another > possible source of family income.) Of course, this is much less > resource-intensive! > > So the issue is more than just that some parts of the world are > reproducing too often. Other parts of the world are also consuming > too much. And declines in reproduction are usually met with > increases in consumption. So what's the answer? Well, there's > obviously more than one answer, but a big chunk of the solution is > related to why this thread has a place on this list. > > Anita > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 00:32:55 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24365 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26393 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:57:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26263 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.37.158.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.37.158]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22026; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3805D05C.AEB3105B@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 05:45:16 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition References: <38020E93.1AFBBC09@sprintmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3201 I am very much surprised that ANY organic grower would not have sense enough to add minerals, esp. trace minerals. I want everyone to hear about this superduper stuff sent me. It is an extremely finely ground rock mix. I have never seen anything of such fine particles. SUMMA MINERALS, 2310 Sherman Place, Las Vegas, Nevada 89102, phone is 702-259-8693. Fax is 02-259-8695 You really owe it to yourselves to at least find out what they have. They sell it under several names. It should make a fast-noticed difference in your results. I have used many different mineral sources over the many decades, but never have I seen anything so powdery. Alex McGregor wrote: > There's been a lot of questions and answers on this thread. Maybe my > limited knowledge of the subject would help some. > > At the Southern SAWG Conference in Memphis about 2 years ago, a farm > consultant did a demonstration of Brix testing- measuring the amount of > sugar in fruit with a refractometer; there is a direct correlation > between sugar content and mineral content. So, the higher the sugar, the > higher the mineral content. > > He had an organically grown yellow squash he bought that morning from a > health food store and a chemically grown one from a supermarket. The > chemically grown squash had a much higher sugar content and thus, > mineral content. The crowd was perplexed. People around me were mumbling > that it couldn't be right because, "Everybody knows organic has a higher > nutritional content." > > What this showed was that the chemical farmer had a better mineral > balance in her/his soil than the organic farmer- by luck or effort, we > don't know. (The factor not measured here was the amount of toxic > chemicals and metals in the squash.) > > There are 2 basics facts about minerals in the soil and plant uptake > that we just can't ignore: > 1.) If the soil doesn't contain the mineral, plants can't take it up. > (Pretty obvious.) > 2.) If there is too much of one mineral, it will suppress the uptake of > other minerals by plants. (For example, excessive calcium in a soil > will block the uptake of iron, even if there is sufficient iron in the > soil.) > > That's the chemistry part of soil. But there is another factor we know > less about- the biology of the soil. What we do know is that where you > have low levels of minerals and a high soil biodiversity (through good > soil management practices and sufficient organic matter), the plants > have higher mineral content. This happens through having a large > population of plant nutrient cyclers and plant symbionts present in the > soil, making the scarce minerals more available or "feeding" them > directly to the plants. > > This soil biology can also "buffer" the mineral imbalances and the > uptake of heavy metals. Plants will also take up non-nutritive ions > (i.e., heavy metals and other ions) and can substitute these for plant > nutrient minerals to survive. > > So, those organic farmers who pay attention to good management practices > for their soil and maintain an adequate food source for their soil > biology (organic matter) produce higher nutritional quality food than > organic farmers who don't. And non-organic farmers who practice good > soil management, balance the minerals in their soil and add organic > matter do better than either on mineral content. (Given the same soils > and the condition that the chemical farmer is not destroying the soil > biology.) > > And, an organic farmer following the same practices of soil management > and mineral balancing can do as well or better than the non-organic > farmer for nutrient content without the chemical residues. > > There are areas of our country where recent geologic events (glaciation > in the Midwest, volcanic in Hawaii, fault zones on the West coast and > Middle Tennessee) have remineralized the soils naturally and where > plants have access to minerals. Then there are zones where temperatures > and high rainfall have depleted the soil minerals (Southeast US, with > the exception of fault zones). > > So, the soil type and history has a lot to do with plant nutrition. But, > we can boost the organic matter and add minerals in a balanced way to > convert minerally "poor" soils to produce minerally "rich" crops. > > How to balance minerals is another story. I think I've been going on > long enough. > > By the way, I have been impressed with how many sanetters have an > appreciation for, and knowledge about, this subject. I share Bart's > experience about, "...the overwhelming majority of organic farmers don't > 'get' this any better than their conventional colleagues..." I have yet > to meet another organic farmer in the Southeast who uses some form of > mineral management beyond NPK- and this is a geographic area where it is > so critical for plant and human nutrition! > > Alex > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 00:33:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24382 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26306 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:57:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26150 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.37.158.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.37.158]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21816; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3805CC73.ED026F0B@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 05:28:36 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Walker Bennett CC: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: OT?: October 12, 1999 - A date that shall live in infamy.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3202 sterilize the males and stop the killing load of everyrthing on those poor women, who get the blame for being the victims of the uncaring males. Walker Bennett wrote: > SANETeers: > Knowing full well that I am opening a can of worms from the left, > right and others, the Sustainable Agriculture forum is the perfect place to > bring up our current threat to sustainable anything. > For those of you who are unaware, today the spaceship Earth marks > its 6-Billionth passenger. Here is one link for a story by MSNBC: > http://www.msnbc.com/news/320915.asp which presents both sides > > and an article sent me by the Environmental Defense Fund - > > Six Billion People and Counting! > ---------------------- > > To: All Environmental Defense Fund Activists > From: Azur Moulaert, Member Action Network Manager > Date: Friday October 8, 1999 > Re: Six Billion People and Counting! > On October 12, the world's population will hit six billion people. > This milestone raises a number of critical questions about the future for > that 6 billionth person and for all of us. Will that child have adequate > health care and enough food and water? Will she/he have any economic > opportunities beyond exploitative labor practices and exploitation of our > natural heritage? Without change, the answer to most of those questions > will clearly be no. Population and the environment are inextricably > linked. We already know -- all too well -- that unchecked population > growth rapidly depletes resources and dramatically threatens the > environment. Today, nearly one billion people on the planet are not > getting enough to eat. More than half a billion people are living in > countries suffering chronic shortages of fresh water. Looking forward, we > must also consider that almost half of the current six billion people are > under the age of 25; and only half the married women in the world have > access to modern contraceptives or reproductive health information and > services. The pressures on the earth and on the growing number of its > inhabitants are clear. Without change, these pressures will only increase. > Our nation's support for voluntary family planning initiatives in the > world's poorest countries is one of the great humanitarian success stories > and has historically enjoyed strong bipartisan support in the Congress. > U.S. funding has allowed more than 50 million poor women to have access to > desperately needed services, and to make choices about the number and > spacing of their children. In recent years, though, Congress has severely > restricted global efforts to expand these programs. In fact, U.S. funding > for such efforts has been cut by one-third since 1995. As a result, > programs and clinics have been shut down or severely cut back. At EDF, we > recognize that population and consumption are interlocking issues. To > resolve the world's major environmental challenges will require stabilizing > the world's population, at the lowest possible level, along with using > resources sustainably, alleviating poverty, promoting non-polluting > technologies, and implementing efficient and equitable economic development > policies. Both developed and developing countries should have the means to > address these problems, including population issues. In short, as we work > to meet current needs for a healthy environment, it just makes sense to > provide communities with voluntary, culturally sensitive means for a > healthy and equitable future. If you agree, please take a moment during > this historic time to let your representatives in Congress know that Y6B > (year of six billion) is the right time to restore America's traditional > role of supporting family planning. It's and essential part of the answer > for the future. > > Draw you own opinions, but keep in mind that nothing is unlimited. > > Walker Bennett > wbennett@caldwellspartin.com > wabennett@gw.total-web.net > w_bennett@msn.com > ___________________________________________________________ > FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. It comes bundled with the software. > ___________________________________________________________ > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 00:37:16 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24425 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26249 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:57:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26152 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.37.158.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.37.158]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21559; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3805C4B2.D81E85D5@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 04:55:30 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: steved@ncatark.uark.edu CC: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" , Bluestem Associates Subject: Re: Organic and nutrition References: <199910122133.QAA08607@ncatark.uark.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3203 good reply. I just saw a photo of mr. Thompson--suddenly realized we are all getting older. been a long time since i saw a photo of him--quite a difference. He and wife have been a find example all these years. Steve Diver wrote: > Steve Diver wrote: > > >Table 1. Average changes in the mineral content of some fruits and > > >vegetables*, 1963-1992 [Bergner] > > > > > >Mineral Average % Change > > > > > >Calcium -29.82 > > >Iron -32.00 > > >Magnesium -21.08 > > >Phosphorus -11.09 > > >Potassium -6.48 > > > > > >* Fruits and vegetables measured: oranges, apples, bananas, > > >carrots, potatoes, corn, tomatoes, celery, romaine lettuce, broccoli, > > >iceberg lettuce, collard greens, and chard > > > > > Bart Hall wrote: > > Given these declines. Given organic vs. conventional studies from the > > late '80s that were (at best) inconclusive. Given the high dedication > > to organic production principles at the time (ie, money was not the > > motive as it so often is these days) ... the organic > > movement/community/industry should go into a corner and hide from > > embarassment. > > I'm not sure what Bart is saying here. > > The data I posted from Bergner's book is not a comparison of > organic to organic, or organic to conventional. > > The data are taken from USDA figures on composition of foods > typically found in the marketplace. Thus, the data almost certainly > describe conventional to conventional food composition as analyzed in > 1963 and again in 1992. > > They indicate that as a general rule, mineral content in foods have > declined over time. > > It supports the argument from the alternative farming crowd that > minerals are being depleted from soils due to farming practices. > And likewise, that attention to mineral fertilization and balanced > soil nutrition is very important. > > Nevertheless, I am in agreement with Bart's views on the mineral > situation on organic farms. Certified organic in itself does not > imply good criteria for food quality. > > On the other hand, the alternative farming movement (at least > certain parts of the organic, biodynamic, and ecofarming > crowds) have addressed food quality at an advanced level. > > Soil tests, fertilizer recommendations with attention to balanced > nutrients and calcium levels, and qualitative/quantitative > measurements of the food product itself are an important part of the > picture. > > That food quality differences do in fact exist, and can be > tweaked and improved through a series of soil management > and foliar feeding practices, is without a doubt one of the > biggest stories of alternative farming. > > Here, I am reminded of the following observation from well known > ridge-till farmer from Boone, Iowa, Mr. Richard Thompson, in > response to academic types at a farming conference who insisted > that "nitrogen is nitrogen is nitrogen": > > "Men say no, but mice know the difference" > > This was in reference to a on-farm trial where mice ate > organically-raised corn but would not touch chemically-fertilized > corn; further supporting William Albrecht's views that animals have > more food sense than most Americans, as witnessed by our food > production and consumption habits. > > Steve Diver > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 00:44:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24510 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25822 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:56:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25701 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.37.158.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.37.158]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21450; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3805C3F6.A06E737A@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 04:52:23 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald Nigh CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: organic and nutrition References: <3.0.1.32.19991012072639.00749ee8@mail.internet.com.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3204 this bringing up minerals from deep subsoil is exactly the kind of thing Cocannouer wrote about in his book WEEDS, guardians of the soil. Everyone should read it. Ronald Nigh wrote: > Dennis wrote > > >Granted that some sub-soils in some places (not just in a region of the > >country but, where geology is complex, maybe in different parts of the one > >farm) may have chronic deficiencies, or difficult pH, does not the > >availability of nutrients to plants depend on soil management, particularly > >the development of colloidal humus? > > > > It is true that our first and foremost concern is to improve and maintain > soil structure. Soil structure is dependent entirely on biological > activity, the conversion of organic matter into energy (for soil > microorganisms to grow and reproduce) and "colliods", "humus" and such, in > other words secondary substances that bind together soil particles into > 'crumbs' that produce a loose soil in with roots and grow freely and where > water and air can penetrate freely (roots need water *and* air to > metablolize properly). Achieving a good soil structure will solve most of > your problems. > > If their are regional deficiencies, or more likely, imbalances among > nutrient elements then this process of creating soil structure may run into > difficulties. Plants may show any of a number problems including pests or > diseases. The mineral status of a soil--and we're talking about maybe 22 > elements here, not just two or three or six--is part of creating an optimum > soil. (Unfortunately the idea of optimum soil isn't really addressed in > soil and plant nutrition studies.) > > So, the answer to your question is "yes, but..." > > >Put it another way: if the growing of a crop removes something from the > >soil, does that mean that something from a bag or a truck has to be added, > >or does it mean that the management of the soil and plant and animal > >production needs to be such as to maintain or improve soil quality, rather > >than see it go downhill? Is not this point - the enhancement of soil > >quality - the key factor in organic or sustainable farming, rather than > >measuring deficiencies and making choices between additives? > > > > If harvesting a crop removes an essential element from the topsoil, then > this element becomes less available. If it was optimum at one point then it > becomes less than optimum after being removed. It has to be replaced, it's > as simple as that. If you take it out you have to put it back. There's no > magic in "soil management"-- its physics and biology. How can you replace > it? The most common way for many mineral elements to be restored is for > deep rooted plants to bring them up again from the subsoil and deposit them > in the top soil in leaf litter and other residues. If that element is > scarce in the subsoil then it will be scarce in the topsoil--it will be > quickly depleted in the harvest (perhaps, or by erosion) and will have to > be supplied from other sources--"a bag or a truck" or from another part of > the farm. > > Most descriptions of soil mineral content are misleading. They are talking > about average amounts or minimum amounts necesary to prevent noticeable > deficiency symptoms. But the level of Ca or B or Cu necessary to prevent > obvious deficiency is usually quite different from the *optimumal* level of > these nutrients for soil and plant health and productivity. What is more > the optimal level isn't a fixed amount but varies according to the > proportion of other elements. "Deficiencies" can be caused by high levels > of an antagonistic element rather than by absolute absences of the > deficient one. Higher N levels in the soil require higher Mo and Fe, for > example. This is because these elements are used in enzyme systems the > plant needs to metabolize N. These same principles apply to animal nutrition. > > How do you balance a soil optimally and know what elements to supply and > when you are wasting your money? This is the art. Things are more likely to > happen naturally on a diverse organic farm where the network of flows is > more complex. A lot depends on the daily attention of the farm family, just > noticing what is going on. But then questions arise and sometimes its not > easy to find answers. It seems like the technical people and scientists are > usually asking different questions. > > The behavior of our animals can give us clue. The freer they are to move > around the more they can tell us about our soils etc. Sometimes animals > have natural licks where they like go. These may just be salt, but natural > licks probably have other mineral too. Getting these > analyzed can give us a clue as to what is missing in the animals diet, and > therefore in the soil (Geologically if there is a concentrated deposit in > an area of some mineral itspossible that this mineral is deficient in the > surrounding soils). Also watching what a cow eats after calving or when > they are sick can be instructive. > > I have talked to graziers who use free choice mineral feeding. This is a > system where minerals are given in separate trays and the cattle (or llamas > or whatever) can choose their own mix. Observing what the animals do here > can reveal worlds about the soil and the seasonal availability of minerals > in the forage. Some graziers claim that this method allows very precise > adjustment of the mineral levels in the soil, as the cattle carry these > minerals and deposit them in their manure as they graze. I know one > grazier who believes that cattle will go and deliberately drop in patch of > soil that is deficient! Talk about sophisticated soil management, this > beats precision farming! > > Anyway, talking to these people has convinced me we still have lot to learn > about soil fertility. The point is optimal mineral balance should translate > into healthy soil and plants and optimum quality foods. > > Ronald Nigh > Dana, A.C. > Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas > Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) > 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) > danamex@mail.internet.com.mx > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Oct 14 20:59:36 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21713 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27719 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:17:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27701 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id HAA30894; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:49:28 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id IAA04163; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:30:22 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910150030.IAA04163@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 15 Oct 99 07:28:41 Subject: RE: monsters that change? To: WILSONDO@phibred.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3205 >1. I don't think they (we) are monsters, just all too human >2. Your tone is sort of like "kick em good when they're down" >3. You are not adding anything to the debate, just engaging in personal >attack. > >The people I know in Monsanto, and in the industry in general are operating >with good intentions. Sure, they want to make money, but they believe (and >so do I) that the current GMO products are good, healthful, useful to >farmers of all sizes, and mostly harmless to the environment. Their big >fault is being politically naive. Dale, I think you mistake the persons you know for the corporation. Remember that a corporation is a separate personality from its individual shareholders, directors, managers and employees. Monsanto (and Pioneer too) is a separate legal personality of its own. It is literally a monster, with neither heart nor soul (even if some of its component parts might have them). It might be helpful to consider a corporation *as if* it were a different species, with humans among its component parts. What these humans think is relevant only in so far as they aid what the corporation itself, as a business firm with its own legal personality, is programmed to do -- which is to maximize profits. Chairman Shapiro himself is expendable and can be replaced anytime. I had been thinking, actually, of writing a piece I'd entitle: "How do you slay a corporation?" Our ancestors could slay the biggest monster of their time, the wooly mammoth. The biggest monsters of our time are corporations. And our communities have not yet learned the ABC of slaying a corporation that is a threat to their survival. Some have tried bombing its headquarters, or killing its managers, taking it to court, and a thousand other tricks, but they don't work. The corporation is very good at healing its wounds and replacing its constituent parts. On the other hand, corporations have learned how to domesticate human beings, like we domesticate cats and dogs. Such domesticated human beings think they can't live without corporations, and, like guard dogs, will defend their masters with their lives and attack even their fellow dogs. Corporations have also learned to expand their own legal rights ("liberalization"), to stay clear of human laws ("deregulation") or to even take over human functions ("privatization"). Through lobbying, they are also rewriting the laws that we must live under. Need I define what "globalization" means? You don't like the "kick them good, when they're down" attitude towards a corporation? A wounded elephant is very dangerous. A wounded corporation is even more so. We now learning how to inflict wounds on a corporation, but we have not learned yet how to slay one. But we're getting there. Soon, I hope. Roberto Verzola To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 01:31:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25026 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 01:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24872 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:55:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24355 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.37.158.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.37.158]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19936; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3805B21A.CCF916FA@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 03:36:10 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric G Hurley CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Six Billion People and Counting! References: <199910131607.LAA23130@isua2.iastate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3206 population worries----so very easy to control. Just sterilize the males and stop blaming the helpless women who are stuck with all the misery. Eric G Hurley wrote: > To achieve a sustainable agricultural system we must deal with both > the total population and high levels of consumption among > some people in the population. To ignore either issue would not lead to a > sustainability. > > To put it another way, if we drastically increase the efficiency of > sustaining each person on the earth and do not control population, the > system will not be sustainable. If we control population, but continue to > utilize more and more ecosystem resources for each human, the system will > not be sustainable. > > Eric G. Hurley > Ames Iowa > > ------- Forwarded Message > > Six Billion People and Counting! > > Walker Bennet brought to our attention the matter of sixth billionth > person to the planet, and I have a few comments. As I agree that > population and access to appropriate contraceptive methods is a very > important topic, I am usually frustrated by the direction that > discussions of world over-population take. It is usually argued that > it is the sheer number of people that is depleating our resources and > increasing contamination and poverty. But I think this is only a > small part of the issue. I think that the real issue is the > amount of resource depleation and pollution PER person. The > statistic that sticks out in my mind is that an average person > (whatever that is!) in a "developed" country uses 12 (that's TWELVE) > times the resources of an average "developing" country person. In > other words, if I have one child, that child is the same as my > counterpart in Bangladesh or Nigeria having 12 children. Wow. Now, > one wonders, who is *really* overpopulating the earth? > > Another part of the story... Statistics also clearly show that as > infant mortality rates decline and the opportunity for education > increases, fertility rates decline (much more so than the > availability of contraceptives alone). That is, when people can be > sure that a given child is likely to survive to adulthood and they > are willing and able to invest in that child, they are likely to have > fewer children. (The move from agrarian society to non agrarian is > also an important factor.) Having lived in and married someone from > a "third world" country, I live somewhere between the two realities, > and I experience the differences everytime I try to explain to > my in laws (for example) why we haven't had children yet... In most > countries of the world, the potential benefits an additional child > are felt to be much greater than the cost of feeding one more mouth. > But that's because they don't agonize over how they will buy more > health insurance (no one can afford it anyway), how they will pay for > a decent education (doesn't seem attainable anyway), how they will > afford to add another bedroom, another bed, baby seats, cribs, toys, > clothes, a new minivan and on and on. The things that seem to us in > the US to be basic needs when raising a child are just not reasonably > attainable realities in most countries. So another child just seems > like it requires a bit more food, a few more hand-me-down clothes, > and a few more prayers. (Small price to pay for gaining another > possible source of family income.) Of course, this is much less > resource-intensive! > > So the issue is more than just that some parts of the world are > reproducing too often. Other parts of the world are also consuming > too much. And declines in reproduction are usually met with > increases in consumption. So what's the answer? Well, there's > obviously more than one answer, but a big chunk of the solution is > related to why this thread has a place on this list. > > Anita > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 04:05:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26287 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16075 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:34:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16069 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15603 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:32:57 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05461 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:33:12 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 09:26:02 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 09:25:31 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:25:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Organic, Soil Nutrients, Mineralization, malnutrition, part 1 Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <224CC071F9F@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3207 Food Processing and Malnutrition The Economic Destruction of The Food Chain By John Coleman From 1811 to 1816 groups of English artisans known as Luddites rallied against the machinery of the industrial revolution. The advent of intensive mechanisation brought not only the end of skilled craft labour, but ultimately set in motion the widespread malnutrition of the westernised worlds. In 1898 the first edition of Peter Kropotkin's Fields, Factories And Workshops Tomorrow was published. In it he says: "The necessary machinery was created, and the British production of manufactured goods went on at a gigantic pace. In the course of less than seventy years- from 1810 to 1878- the output of coal grew from 10 to 133,000,000 tons; the imports of raw materials rose from 30 to 380,000,000 tons; and the exports of manufactured goods from 46 to 200,000,000 pounds. The tonnage of the commercial fleet was nearly trebled. Fifteen thousand miles of railways were build." With the move of rural peoples into the factories, and the cities that grew out of them, the demand came for these populations to be fed from the remaining, and now labour scarce, farming communities. One particular problem of this new system was that fresh wholefoods do not keep for more than a few days without serious spoiling. The only economic solution was the industrialisation of food production, to replace the loss of labour, and rationalising the food supply. The need was to decrease the bulk of the food materials and improve their shelf life. It was grains that would remain the staple foods of industrial society. Grains could be harvested easily, milled locally and then shipped into the cities as flour. By the time the factory worker got his "daily bread", most of what little nutritional value grains possessed had been damaged by oxidation or heat. The advent of white bread, brought about due to roller mills, may also have brought about the first cases of polio (see 'Immunization: The Reality Behind The Myth' by Walene James, for links between diet and disease and natural immunity). The problem of food preservation was solved mainly by either denaturing foods so much that they no longer supported bacterial or fungal life, (Heating, refining, extruding, irradiating, hydrogenating) or by canning or embalming the foods in poisons. Later improvements on these techniques means that there are some foods in modern society that simply will not decompose, thus demonstrating their unsuitability to support life. All of this was missed in an era where people were keen to reap the benefits of technology and understood very little, if anything, about nutrition. So long as enough food was eaten for men and women to work the factories, all was well. The forces of nature are not to be disobeyed without the severest of consequences, and so it was that the very means that delivered modern humans from toil against feeding themselves lead directly to severe physical degeneration. While the old diseases of serious malnutrition waned, the lesson of feeding properly had not been fully explored. This situation remains even today, despite the large amount of money spent on scientific research people are still clueless as to what constitutes healthy food. Even worse than not knowing which foods are healthy, the true destructive danger of refined and processed foods has not been publicised despite these dangers being known for over half a century. Another effect of industrialisation was the creation of a new super rich capitalist class amongst the masses of impoverished working classes. The capitalist class depends upon industry for its survival and is determined to defend it at any costs to humanity. In 1945 a book called Nutrition And Physical Degeneration was published. The author, Weston A. Price, D.D.S., had studied in very great detail the effects of industrial foods upon primitive peoples used to eating their traditional wholefood diets. His research uncovers the horrifying effects that refined foods such as flour goods, sugar, candies, canned foods, preserves and other devitalised foods have on the humans who eat them. As a dental surgeon he concentrated on tooth decay and deformities of the skull. Even today, modern citizens, lacking knowledge of basic human anatomy, are unaware of the degeneration that continues to destroy health and undermine continued survival. It has even been though that these degeneration's are a genetic inheritance, such is the ignorance of the masses that they blame nature for errors of their own commission. The effects of malnutrition are far from just facial deformities and include generally poor development of the skeleton, enfeebled internal organs and severe mental retardation. Other concerns are expressed by Dr. Price when he suggest links with malnutrition and lower IQs, personality disturbances, criminality, tuberculosis (and general susceptibility to disease), infertility, difficulties with giving birth and birth defects. Since nutritional status affects all metabolic processes, it is a factor in all diseases and human pursuits. Making use of a few of Weston Price's images and observations, it shall be demonstrated that modern man remains grossly deformed despite and because of inadequate nutritional education. The 50th edition of Nutrition And Physical Degeneration has 526 pages, of which only a tiny sample of Weston Price's work will be presented. Various doctors have written glowingly of this book: "Most of us cannot remember what life was like without sugar and refined foods without chemicals added. Weston Price's book drives home that the beginning of many degenerative diseases started with the introduction of processed foods. A must for anyone seriously interested in the effects of foods on health." Robert F. Cathcart, M.D. "A powerful teastament to the adverse effects of our modern diet upon health. As shocking and relevant in its implications today as when it was first written." Melvyn R. Werbach, M.D. "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration is an incredibly important classical work. It was a major force in turning my head around, and it deserves to be in every classic library on nutrition." Warren M. Levin, M.D. Weston Price studied over 14 different peoples of which we shall look at just three. In most cases the traditional peoples had fed on any edible things found locally. These range from a diversity of animal parts to fruits and ancient agricultural products. Animal organs, yucca roots, water grasses, insects and many diverse but unrefined foods are eaten. In most cases these traditional feeding patterns produce sturdy and well formed populations free of the ravages of degenerative diseases that plague modern society even today. The eating of uncooked foods whether of animal or plant origins is significant in all cases, with cooking predominant in agriculturalised peoples. Of all the peoples studied, the so called "Eskimos" with their massive reliance on animal foods had the poorest physical build and longevity, but still managed to produce stronger bodies than the average westerner. In the book Stone Age Diet by Leon Chaitow, we learn about the early origins of physical degeneration as a result of agriculture. He says that tooth decay was rarely found in Neolithic times before man started farming, but that decay was commonly found in the teeth of fossils after the start of agricultural settlements (Robert Coates, 'What is Natural Diet?', Nutrition and Health, Vol 1, 1982). Chaitow also points out that until agriculture began some 10 to 12 thousand years ago, and people for the first time crowded into towns, many infectious diseases were extremely rare (C. Wells, 'Bones, Bodies and Diseases', Thames and Hudson, 1964). Tuberculosis is only known from the late Stone Age and not at all in Paleolithic times (P. A. Janssems, 'Paleopathology, Diseases and Injuries of Prehistoric Man', John Baker, 1970) and Malaria is only thought to have started with the clearing of forests and creation of pools for mosquitoes to breed in (Robert Coates op. cit.). John Robson, M.D., of the University of South Carolina suggests that the abandonment of wild fruits as a dietary component may be responsible for many of the present day problems of modern man (John Robson, 'Journal of Human Nutrition', February 1978). The idea that primitive mankind lived under the constant threat of disease and starvation is a myth created by modern age technophiles to cloud the issue that malnutrition and disease are in fact the modern normal. Today American middle-class white women with their diets high in protein and fats give birth to babies that are more unhealthy than poor immigrant women. (JAMA, December 21, 1994) The food industries and the chemical companies that control much of modern industry seem to have such control over medical opinion and influence in society, that healthy nutrition, the most basic requirement of humans, is still spared little thought today. They exert this power via official bodies such as agricultural and medical regulatory agencies. This has ensured that the scientific evidence pointing to the dangers of food processing and intoxication with dangerous chemicals has been dampened down to the extent required to maintain public confidence. Industrial food processors employ huge teams of scientists, often engaged in research on animals, in order to demonstrate the safety of their products to regulatory bodies which ignore the abundant evidence of human degeneration. With the grain barons able to threaten a national food crisis at will, their ability to control social policy is potentially very great. In the USA it is illegal to use radical dietary therapy to treat serious illnesses like cancer. Similar attempts to open such centres in the UK have also been thwarted by the industrial medical interests. Apparently eating properly is dangerous "quackery". In the book Dirty Medicine Martin J. Walker says of wholefoods in modern diet: "By the mid-sixties in America, old ideas about wholefoods and the high quality nutritional status of vegetables and fruits were being revitalised by the 'health food' revolution. Representatives of the chemical and pharmaceutical industries tried to ensure, however, that those who believed in the 'health food' concept did not link concepts of nutrition with those of disease. ... Today there are two schools of nutrition, the 'old' and the 'new'. Almost all the 'old school' nutritionists are linked to the processed food industry and represent vested interests. Although such people claim to be guided by science, their theoretical position consists of highly generalised assumptions. At the centre of these assumptions is the 'balanced diet'." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 04:09:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26315 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16160 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:35:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16156 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15623 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:34:22 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05475 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:35:11 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 09:28:01 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 09:27:14 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:27:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Organic + Soil Nutrients + Mineralization + malnutrition, part 2 Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <224D3693BC5@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3208 Let us now take a look at the indigenous peoples from around the world and see how their diets afford them health far in excess of what any modern westerner experiences, and what has happened to their health as a result of westernisation. ------------------------------ [Image] Indigenous American Peoples [Image] The skull of an early indigenous Cross-sectional views of American adult. In this typical skull bone: A is from a example note the superb dental modern "Indian" from set of arch, absence of tooth decay and Thousands of Florida, B and C are full teeth. such skulls have been from pre-Columbian "Indians". found all over the USA. Tooth decay and facial deformity was virtually unknown to these people who ate only wholefood diets. The so called "Red Indians" would never have needed a dentist, because healthy teeth and skeletal formation was a rule, not an exception. This is despite the absence of both the tooth brush and dental creams and even in the presence of plaque and other oral bacteria prevents this. The effects of both are devastating! [Image] Indigenous Great Barrier Reef People These are the faces of three generations of men whos parents ate native wholefoods. They have superb teeth, full dental arches, broad nostrils and no tooth decay. Their facial bones are broad and fully formed. [Image] These children from the Great Barrier Reef were born to parents who ate a diet including modern processed foods. They demonstrate a range of facial deformities such as narrowing of the skull and dental arches with pinched nostrils and crowding of the teeth. Even their magnificent heredity could not protect them from the damage effects of commercial "foods". [Image] New Zealand Peoples These Maori women have parents who ate the traditional native wholefood diet. The Maori people have the reputation of having the finest teeth and bodies of any race in the world. These beautiful faces are typical of their race. Only about one tooth in one thousand had been attacked by tooth decay prior to the influence of the white man. With the advent of the white man in New Zealand tooth decay has [Image] become rampant. The suffering from tooth decay and abscessed teeth is very great in the most modernised Maori. The girl on the left has lost many teeth due to tooth decay, the girl on the right also has serious tooth decay. In contrast to the early "primitive" Maori, those born since the adoption of deficient foods are grossly deformed with marked underdevelopment of the facial bones, one of the results is narrowing of the dental arches with crowding of the teeth and underdeveloped air passages. This outcome is not linked to racial mixing, but diet. [Image] These are typical white New Zealand boys. Apart from having the highest per capita consumption of meat in the world*, white New Zealanders are reputed to have the worst teeth in the world. These boys show the degenerative effects of chronic malnutrition common to white peoples who eat commercial foods; narrowed skulls and dental arches, pinched nose, over crowding of teeth, tooth decay, insufficient growth of the mid face and pointed lower jaw. Diets rich in farmed meats and animal products do not protect against malnutritional deformities. * NOTES New Zealanders eat about 320 grams of meat per day, and have the highest incidence of colo-rectal cancer in the world. (Colo-Rectal Cancer In Women In 23 Countries, Ehrlich, Economics, 1977) The following table was adapted from data by Weston Price (op. cit.) and shows the dramatic effect that the introduction of western processed foods had on peoples who used to eat traditional wholefood diets. I have kept the table entries as originally presented, only reordering them into ascending order. Percentages Of Teeth Attacked By Caries In Primitive And Modernized Groups Race Primitive Modern Amazon Jungle Indians 0.00 40.0+ High Andes Indians 0.00 40.0+ New Zealand Maori 0.00 55.3 Australian Aborigines 0.00 70.9 Coastal Peruvians 0.04 40.0+ Eskimos 0.09 13.0 Malays 0.09 20.6 Northern Indians 0.16 21.5 Africans 0.20 6.8 Polynesians 0.32 21.9 Melanesians 0.38 29.0 Gaelics 1.20 30.0 Seminole Indians 4.00 40.0 Swiss 4.60 29.8 Modern Western Citizens - 95-100 Primitive Wisdom Weston Price, and other nutritional authors, have tried to suggest that these traditional peoples were eating according to some "primitive wisdom". This is definitely the case because their ability to survive is incredible and their knowledge of the health giving properties of various traditional foods is demonstrable. These peoples certainly had extensive knowledge of how to survive with maximum health on local food items but it is self evident that this wisdom does not represent extensive nutritional knowledge since most of these peoples usually accepted western foods readily in order to save labour, or as a barter. If they had true nutritional wisdom, they would have refrained from eating white mans food. The indigenous North Americans did sometimes refrain from modern foods, but perhaps many, deprived of land, were eventually forced to comply or face starvation. Perhaps the indigenous peoples were also keen to try the white mans food? Western foods, heavy with sugar and salt seem to be strongly habit forming. Even the traditional Gaelic's studied had superior physiques than the average westerners, but none the less took to modern foods. Traditional peoples had knowledge of survival and not nutritional knowledge, which requires scientific understanding of food, metabolism and effects. Perhaps the traditional peoples were just ignorant or naive, much as the modern consumer today is. Death Dealing Diets In animal experiments Prof. Forster of Munchen found that feeding with devitalised foods caused death even faster than total starvation. It seems that foods that have their mineral or vitamin constituents removed become dangerous. A basic understanding of metabolism is all you need to understand the dangerous effects of processed foods. In Herbert M. Shelton's 'The Science and Fine Art of Fasting', 1934, he explains Prof. Forsters work, in which animals were fasted or fed mineral-free diets. Shelton said: "Animals fed on demineralised foods are compelled to expend their reserves in two directions- (1) in the regular processes of life; and (2) in balancing up the mineral-poor foods they are consuming- while animals deprived of all foods (fasting) are forced to expend their reserves only on carrying on the ordinary (though somewhat reduced) processes of life." Food may be considered as having three useful factors of biochemical function: 1. energy provided by carbohydrates (and also by fat or protein if excess is available) 2. structure provided by protein, essential fatty acids and most importantly, minerals 3. catalysts provided by vitamins With this very simple model of nutrition we can demonstrate that if food energy is provided without all its essential structural and catalytic factors then metabolism cannot work properly. A couple of examples can be made to demonstrate how this works. The building and maintenance of bone requires the minerals magnesium and zinc. If the minerals essential to bone metabolism are absent or reduced, then bone tissue will be lost in proportion to the absence of the minerals. If vitamin C is too low in the diet then the protein collagen cannot be built properly, scurvy eventually results. In order to metabolise any ingested food energy structural and catalytic factors are always required, and if absent in the diet, they will be taken, if possible, from existing stores. Starving organisms go through a period of fasting in which metabolism is kept at a lowered rate and balanced reserves of food in the tissues are carefully used up until starvation begins. Malnourished animals metabolise faster but take from their own stores of essential nutrients, so they reach the point of starvation much earlier. In a diet that only provides slightly less minerals than that required, the starvation may take decades to cause death and may be passed on by inheritance. Dr. Price noticed that even in perfectly healthy primitive peoples, as soon as processed foods where used, the first generation of children were deformed. He also noticed that mothers experienced increasing problems during childbirth as the malnutrition was passed on down the line of inheritance. In order to survive, a child developing in the womb will take its nutrients from the mothers body if she is malnourished, leaving the mothers bones and organs robbed of their vital essences. In primitive peoples on wholefood diets, there are plenty of nutrients for both mother and developing child. The mothers have easy childbirth's and do not develop osteoporosis or exhibit other alleged menopausal problems. Dr. Price also found that mothers who were well formed and kept to traditional diets but had children with deficient western fathers inherited nutritional deformities from the father. He found that malnutrition produces poorer sperm. Even though Dr. Price had demonstrated the degenerative effects of modern foods in humans some thirty years earlier, we find more modern researchers ignored negative outcomes in animal research. In a twelve week experiment on weanling rats Roger J Williams et al. recorded fatalities and growth rates. Against all scientific logic they ignored fatalities and drew the conclusions that faster growth rate equated to superior food supply. Some of their observations are given in the table below. The most processed and devitalised foods bring speedy death to the unfortunate rats. No. Av. Av.net of life weight Food Product Tested deaths span gain ------------------------------------------------------- Ripe bananas 0 84 71 Enriched macaroni 0 84 124 Polished rice 0 84 131 Whole milk (homogenized vit. D) 0 84 220 Roasted peanuts 1 83 210 "Pork and beans" 1 78 286 Brown rice 1 76 144 Canned tuna (waterpack) 1 75 188 Potato chips 2 80 151 Whole milk (homogenized vit. D) 2 75 257 Creamed cottage cheese 2 71 277 Enriched white bread 2 70 235 Battery eggs, cooked whole 2 69 315 Wheat grain (cooked) 2 66 199 Glucose 3 70 29 Fortified skim milk 3 70 43 Instant mashed potatoes 3 58 239 Frankfurters (all meat) 4 71 114 Cooked hamburger 4 66 216 Corn starch 5 60 8 Canned carrots 5 34 69 Sucrose 8 49 9 Gelatin dessert 8 37 2 --- Eight male weanling (about 60 g) rats per group, fed diets containing 10% of the calories from eggs and 90% of the calories from the food product tested. Sucrose or refined sugar, is perhaps one of the most dangerous foods around for rats. Yielding pure calories, all the minerals and vitamins are removed during processing. Gelatin, an animal protein, seems even worse. Many of the foods popular to growing modern children seem deadly when given to growing rats. Why was this research ignored? Canning loses 80% of vitamin E content of vegetables, boiling about 30%. Even during deep freezing 68% vitamin E can be lost in as little as 2 weeks. White flour loses 92% of its vitamin E during processing, and cooking foods in fats at high temperature destroys 70-90% of the vitamin E content. The losses of minerals in refining of goods is dramatic. To get white sugar from raw cane sugar 96% of calcium, 99% of chloride, 98% of potassium, 99% of sodium, 99% of phosphorus and 99% of sulphur are lost. The figures for losses of trace elements are similar. (figures from 'Thorsons Complete Guide To Vitamins and Minerals', Leonard Mervyn, B.Sc. Ph.D. C.Chem F.R.S.C.) Lessons Learned The question which arises after learning about traditional diets is always "should we return to them?". It must be clear that it is necessary to remove processed "foods" from the food chain. However, returning to traditional feeding habits without question is a naive approach. The modern citizen, has lost the natural strength that the human body can offer, and should therefore be considered a weaker frame in need of careful rebuilding. A return to eating large quantities of animal foods such as our stone age ancestors ate would be asking too much of our damaged bodies and is unhealthy. Eaton and Konner (S. Boyd Eaton and Melvin Konner, 'Paleolithic Nutrition: A Consideration of its Nature and Current Implications', New England Journal of Medicine, January 1985, Vol. 312 No. 5, 283-9) suggest that a Paleolithic hunter might have eaten about 790 grams of meat per day, or about 240 grams of protein. We now know that true biological requirement for protein is around six times lower than such a diet provides, the excess protein being processed into toxic ammonia and then into urea for excretion. It has also been suggested that stone age man had poor longevity due to genetic factors. The stone age diet is higher in calories, protein and fat than modern diets, these factors are known to accelerate growth, bringing about earlier menarchee, organ damage and death. Traditional dietary practice is not a substitute for modern scientific knowledge in nutrition. In News of the Cornell-China Project the eminent nutritional researcher and biochemist T. Colin Campbell Ph. D. writes: "... low-fat, plant-rich diets retard the onset of menstruation and decrease circulating hormone levels. Fat and animal protein have each been shown to increase female hormone levels, while dietary fiber decreases these levels." The evidence suggesting genetic factors in the short lifespans of prehistoric man is theoretical. The biochemical and epidemiological studies offer scientifically rigorous evidence as to what may cause early development of maturity, and thence onset of the degeneration called "old age". An adage in biochemistry is that "you can't teach an old gene new tricks". How then does modern man outlive his stone age ancestors by a factor of two, or much more, given that his diet is so poor in comparison? The answer? Less meat! Sources * Peter Kropotkin, Fields, Factories And Workshops Tomorrow, ed. Colin Ward, Freedom Press, London, 1989 * Weston A. Price, Nutrition And Physical Degeneration, 50th Anniversary Ed., Keats Publishing Inc., New Canaan, Connecticut, 1989 * Leon Chaitow, Stone Age Diet, Macdonald & Co. Ltd, 1987 * Lynne McTaggart and Bryan Hubbard, The Better Diet Book, What Doctors Don't Tell You, The Wallace Press, 1995 * Martin J Walker, Dirty Medicine, 1994, Slingshot Publications, BM Box 8314, London, WC1N 3XX * Roger J Williams, James D Heffley, Man-Li Yew, And Charles W Bode, 'The "Trophic" Value of Foods', Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 70, 3, pp.710-713, March 1973 klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 06:13:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27143 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00655 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:36:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00640 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:36:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17294 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:35:28 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06165 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:35:49 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 11:28:38 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 11:27:52 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:27:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Organic & Soil Nutrients and Mineralization Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <226D62A26DC@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id FAA00642 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3209 hello dennis >I added the word nutrient back into the title, because I think it >important to have regard for the manner in which a healthy, >colloidal soil provides minerals in molecular form to the plant, >rather than simply as ions of elements. We can look on the ways >this stuff gets into plants as dumb or smart processes. If you >put enough soluble ions around a plant root yes, sure, poisonous >or nutritious, they are likely to be taken up - a dumb process. >But I suspect that much smarter processes are at work in >molecular transfers between roots and a healthy environment and >these are what is critical. that's what i do expect, too. it would be a big simplification (and in fact soil scientists - and also our consultants have the most problems with single results from different tests) to reduce soil quality to properties, which can be measured (and even more problematic: combined to a recommandation) in the lab. some are known, but quite confuse or nothing more than practically useless academic ivory tower definitions. i only know the german expressions, but i'm almost sure, you also heard and know them, too. so what are usual the tests for "fertility" and "activity"? a) humus content b) ion exchange capacity c) dehydrogenase activity d) carbon dioxide production each of them gives an indication, but everyone has it's problems too much of humus will result in cultivation problems, mineral binding, exchange capacity gives false indication (example: the down under soils you mentioned or tropical soils with high aluminium contents, c) and d) give an indication for high activity, but there the question: is it useful, if the activity is so high, that the organic matter is depleted and destroyed TOO fast ? so i wonder, why in our 5000 years history of soil cultivation noone came up with a simple test (i have s.th in mind like the cress test or an earthworm test, which also have their limits - they for ex. do not show mineral content), which gives the grower an indication IN ADVANCE. when you have finished your harvest, you know better and do not need scientific tests anymore... i do not expect a perfect test for every species, but a test, which will give a ROUGH indication for every larger treatment of my fields. example: how does liming influence soil "fertility" on MY special fields ? test should be done with MY soil, not the GENERAL results. these are known to everyone! is there really nothing on the horizont?? next (as soil "quality" will influence food quality) how can we measure food quality ? here i also find it highly reductionistic to reduce quality to mineral content or vitamins. enzyme activity, fatty acids, coenzyme-a metabolites or enzyme inhibitor content might be much more important. we even do not know most of the components of our food, consequently we do not know their value! a rude bean has high mineral contents, nevertheless it is TOXIC to humans!! molded food has the same mineral content as fresh food ! vitamin usually is even higher due to the bacteria! does that mean, that we should eat molded food? certainly not. what means fresh ? taste and smell often fail: the more "tasty" a raspberry, the more toxicants it has! apples with a nice smell may have much lower vitamin contents. wine with too high copper contents taste best! protein content is highly useless, because the biological value depends on the TYPE of protein ("amino acid value" i.e. folding) and not so much on the total amount. in rat feeding tests total rye amino acids have shown to be much more valuable that the same amount of total wheat amino acids. if you treat leak with E605, you will only find 54 instead of 59 amino acids in untreated leak. if you fertilize potatoes with rising amounts of nitrogen, rat feeding tests show a decrease in the amino acid value (while vitamin c, carotin and overall protein content rises). is it more useful to breed apples with lower amounts of vitamins, but which can be well stored and eaten in winter, when no fresh food is at hand or apples with a lot of vitamin c, which boost your blood serum level to unknown heights, but begin to foul almost on the tree? should we breed for high vitamin contents, if cultivation of these varieties might be a disaster for the grower due to low resistance? and so on and so on.... and there is even another problem, i see: i know of NO treatment for a special improvement of fruits, which does not have at least another setback in another special field. so whatever i do as farmer, it will also have at least one disadvantage! result: confusion all around... but there is hope: people themself. example: there is a tribe in southern india, which "knows", what is good for them to eat. once every year some of them walk to a place more than 100 miles away from their home. there they collect clay, roll them to pills, bake them in fire and carry these pills home. at every meal they eat one or two of these pills. ethnobiologists asked the elder of them, why they did it. they didn't know, they just told them that the parents of their parents did so and that they did well.. now the biologists took home samples of these pills and analysed them. result: this clay corresponds to the IDEAL ultramodern recommandations for mineral uptake and they told us, that this "primitive" tribe shows the ideal behavior for mineral supplementation. i would say it the other way round. modern scientists proved nothing more, than what these "primitives" knew long before.. other "primitive" societies are also quite used to eat pure soil from time to time, they are used to eat their vegetables often unwashed with all the soil bacteria on them (and thus with the b-vitamins of these bacteria). eat afaik the aborigines are also in the habit of eating soil. when indian people moved to the usa, they soon developed several illnesses, which are known to be based on food deficiencies. when some of them moved back to india, the illnesses disappeared. researchers found, that american food is washed and with that washing soil and bacteria are removed. they added soil to the food -> the illnesses disappeared. i sure, everyone here has an almost same experience (so this is not restricted to cows or goats): suddenly you develop an immense desire for a special (and maybe unusual or even strange) kind of food. after sport you have a desire for salty food, when ill, you dislike meat and so on. consequence: people have something like an inner warning system, what is lacking and they try to get out of their deficiency. unfortunately this system is beginning to disappear in modern society. > Szent-Gyorgi: >"One particle, plus one particle, put together at random, are >two particles, 1+1=2; the system is additive. But if two >particles are put together in a meaningful way then something new >is born which is more than their sum: 1+1>2. exactly. liebig's law: 10 essential minerals out of ten (and one totally lacking) do not make 10, they just make : ZERO !!! in the following mail (a bit long, sorry in advance to those, who do not like it) i post a text i think highly interesting. and this is confirmed by an old (1956) article about the history of "soil and nutrition" by prof. albrecht at the "department of soil", college of agricult., u. of missouri, columbia/mo, who showed, that yields began to decrease in missouri in the 30ies down to an uneconomic level. result: farmers imported new fruits, which showed higher yields, but with lower nutritional value. the plants had higher carbohydrates than before, but lower contents of protein with less amino acids. corn breeding resulted in more bushels per acre, but 30% less proteins!!! that has changed today, but still modern varieties lack some amino acids, the old varieties had. (source: 8. sonderheft Landwirtschaftliche forschung, pflanzenqualitt - nahrungsgrundlage,j.d. sauerlnder verlag, frankfurt) same with glucosinolates, which were bred out in rape. today medical literature shows, that exactly these ingredients, which restrict the amount of rape seed in animal feed, are highly effective heart protectants, important for the coronary system and pass over to meat and milk.. so what the hell is food quality? (in the end we certainly are not interested in soil quality, but in FOOD quality, which is nothing more than the result of soil quality...) we're just working on a test with photon emissions. first results show a correlation between feeding tests and photons. these photons are mostly the result of total energy received by the sun. you doubt ? me too, but nevertheless it's worth a try. btw: stanford has its own "bio-photon lab", which just does the same tests... but what might be the correlation between photons and nutritional value ?????? klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 07:23:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27509 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA20874 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:52:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20802 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18397 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:51:46 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06787 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:51:57 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 12:44:47 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 12:44:01 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:43:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: Six Billion People and Counting! Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <2281B0431E5@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id GAA20822 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3210 hello anita, >Six Billion People and Counting! >I think that the real issue is the >amount of resource depleation and pollution PER person. The >statistic that sticks out in my mind is that an average person >(whatever that is!) in a "developed" country uses 12 (that's >TWELVE) >times the resources of an average "developing" country person. In >other words, if I have one child, that child is the same as my >counterpart in Bangladesh or Nigeria having 12 children. Wow. >Now, one wonders, who is *really* overpopulating the earth? that's the same logic, as if i would argue: if i put one foot in a dish of freezing water and the other one in a dish of water with 80 C, then ON AVERAGE i should feel quite comfortable... assuming, that ONE child in bangladesh has the same human "value" than ONE child in germany, japan or the usa (you wanna argue with it's bangladeshi parents ??), then ONE child in our country steals ALL the resources which are also there for the other 11 children somewhere else.... the FIRST sentence in the FIRST paragraph of our german constitution reads "all people are born equal" and i assume, i'll also find that in the american constitution. rights are either given (that's the human way) or they are taken (that's the bloody way), so these equal rights better should be given or else they will be taken some day. imagine 3 billion chinese coming in small boats over the ocean landing on your west coast.... you should know better since 1792 (in which case you were on the winning side)... "kings are not taken away by miracles" (thomas paine - common sense) >Another part of the story... Statistics also clearly show that as >infant mortality rates decline and the opportunity for education >increases... do they ? which statistics (i mean for education opportunity) ? can i have the source please ? and how do you understand "opportunity"? i'm sure, even YOU have the OPPORTUNITY to buy a private boeing 747.. >But that's because they don't agonize over how they will buy more >health insurance (no one can afford it anyway), how they will pay >for a decent education (doesn't seem attainable anyway), but THAT contradicts your statistics above, right ? resembles me on the ill-logic is, that your government argued in kyoto, that overall world-pollution is the same, if you are allowed to INCREASE your own pollution, if you pay for DECREASING pollution in other countries. pollution is ALWAYS the result of consumption - mostly known as luxury... the name of the "game" is called "emission trading". INDUSTRY GROUP ADVOCATES FLEXIBLE EMISSIONS TRADING Emissions trading must be unrestricted and flexible if the United States is to meet its targets under the Kyoto Protocol, according to a report commissioned by the industry-backed Global Climate Coalition. The United States hopes to use emissions trading to meet their target of a sevenpercent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions below 1990 levels. Full Story: http://ww w.enn.com/news/enn-stories/1999/03/031899/gcc_2206.asp klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 08:19:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28070 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24912 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:45:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24821 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ars.usda.gov (ars.usda.gov [199.130.152.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA27569 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NPA-Message_Server by ars.usda.gov with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:31:15 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:40:12 -0600 From: Ted Rogers To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, eaclark@uoguelph.ca Subject: Re: The Organic Landscape (long; was Organic EXTREEMLY Cheaper) -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id HAA24834 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3211 Ann, sorry this took so long but I definitely ain*t on sabbatical, so anything more than a two liner are dragged around with me for days and done on my own time... Ann*s comment: *Ted: you raise some interesting and worthwhile points. I'll start by agreeing with your reference to the trade-off between lower yields and lower costs -producing a null sum for relative profitability of organic vs. conventional produce. ... So how different ARE the yields achieved by these two production systems?* So the rule of thumb is do not get Ann started while she is on sabbatical, whew! We agree here, net yield is the same all other variables being even. I think that we may even be able to say that what we perceive as sustainable, bio-intensive, livestock inclusive systems may be closer to what we might call optimal (not maximal) production systems. Ann*s comment: *Now, you ask: Do you honestly propose that the *organic* system might be substituted across the board for the conventional systems? Yes, I do. Scandalous, isn't it. ...* Dangerous maybe, questionable yes, scandalous, I don*t know, I*ve been there, I*m just much more cautious about where I hang my hat these days. If you are talking about the top 25% of organic farmers who are outstanding practitioners with long experience; I wish we could propagate them really fast. But then if we look at the top 25% (quality not quantity) of those producers that we now have to call conventional, they look awfully good too. We finally are talking about good farmers and classifications pale. At first I had a hard time with this section of your discussion but at second read I realized that you were covering the issue with out stating it. Setting aside the issue of the non-existent population of competent practitioners, you are describing the very lopsided modern production/distribution system as needing wholesale change. I have no problem with that, been saying it for over 25 years now. I just don*t see it happening in our lifetimes or those of our children. We have to be real enough to accept the fact that humanity may never get there because some dominant system may emerge that we are not expecting, good or bad. I do not think that it is a stretch to think that there is a good possibility that the consolidated/mono-cropped/vertically integrated systems may not have peaked yet. We may be in the position that we *can*t get there from here* which means that a diversity of bridge systems may be our refuga. These may include really monster more diversified vertically integrated systems and all sorts of hybrid systems of all sizes that may have to evolve over the next century. What may follow that may be a millennial golden age of pristine, intensively managed and intentionally designed diversified agro-ecosystems within which our descendants will subsist in the nurturing comfort of the womb like modern agrarian village. (Woops, flash back, flash back, sixties warning, sixties warning, the old fart drifted off again) I just can*t see that far. Ann*s comment: *To the extent that we, in the privileged nations, accept the responsibility for the welfare of our fellow humans elsewhere, the only truly effective and sustainable approach must be ecologically sustainable practices -including but not limited to organic.* Oh Lord, I pray that we not make the mistake that all reformers and revolutionaries through out history have made, please save us from this thing from which we do not seem able to save ourselves. Please help us Lord, not to take ourselves so seriously. With out going to far down the road of definitions, I am not convinced that I fully understand what sustainability in either the ecological or the general sense means and whoever relegated the term to process and goal did us all a favor. I think that the true science of ecology will need to get through another century before our progeny will begin to understand the questions that we have begun to ask. Those questions may be our only true legacy. (Now Lord, I asked for your help and already you are failing me) I admit that I believe that the top 25% of the organic practitioners out there are pointing in what I perceive/theorize is the right direction (so are the top 25% of the so called conventional practitioners). Unfortunately the balance is not only lagging far behind, they are not even demonstrating any significant progress toward the goals of the best of their ilk. When you make such a sweeping statement - I just flip out... Ann*s comment: *It wouldn't take much in the way of institutional funding to provide research and extension support for the rapidly growing organic producer segment of society. I won't elaborate here, because this is already overlong, but would challenge my virtual SANET friends to contemplate just what institutional research can really do for organic farming -given their impressive (although not complete) success without us.* Considering the excessive self inflicted gunshot wounds in their feet maybe we should just shoot them and put them out of their misery. Neither of us should confuse the really fine organic farmers out there with the organic community/industry and voluntary, self inflicted bureaucracy that has grown up weed like around them. Ann*s comment: *You then ask: > If this be your thought let me point out two things: 1) rightly the systems being discussed include livestock, not many conventional systems include livestock these days. I do not see how agriculture can be practiced sustainably, let alone organically, in the absence of livestock (explanation will have to wait for another post). This does not mean that every farmer must own livestock. Other approaches can be -and are being -envisioned and implemented. ...* I*ll say it for you - you, Bart and any one else that knows how these systems work can correct what I miss. The manure is secondary. What is primary is the inclusion in any agroecosystem (yes these can be extended across a land scape but the feed back loops need to be managed carefully) of both permanent and rotational grass/legume sod. These elements seem to be critical to the long term maintenance of or increase of top soil and humus in the system. This leads to the inclusion of domesticated livestock, particularly ruminants, in the system. This is necessary because though I have been known to graze I don*t have enough stomachs (ok Bart, don*t be wising off now) to be very good at it. But this again reinforces your position that the whole production distribution structure of modern agriculture can and will change soon. Again I think that we are talking about centuries and generations not decades and our children. Ann*s comment: *And finally, you ask: > 2) the hidden input, that is very expensive, is management ....This management input is knowledge/experience based and I do not see the talent being developed today to shoulder the management load ..... Agreed. I have spoken recently at several schools about the urgent need to facilitate the entry of new farmers ...* And here is the rub: Where are the farmers? I haven*t checked the numbers but I don*t think that our generation has contributed very much. The average farmer is still over fifty(remember when that was a lot older that you were). New farmers of any ilk are modest in number(who would willingly and knowingly accept the heart ache?) Ann*s comment: *(existing conventional farmers or non-farm background) into the organic mileau. I foresee a vast increase in demand for organic produce in the immediate future -and I mean within 1-5 yars -which we will be wholly unable to satisfy.* I don*t see it. I see sustainable/green brand names and commodity based labels moving into the market and answering the demand. These new labels will be well researched and well financed they will dominate the shelves and will have clearly defined standards and integrity. Ann*s comment: *I am convinced that failure to nurture this industry right now -and I mean now, 1999 -will mean a real missed opportunity for quantum leaps in -yes, dare I say it -the wholescale introduction of organic farming into the agricultural landscape of North America.* Sorry, the opportunity is already lost and it was theirs* to loose. I*d not invest any more energy in an industry that has failed to rise to even a small fraction of its potential. As sad as it may be they did have a shot but the small minds and lack of vision of the leadership that they allowed to guide them through the last decade failed to crystalize a practical ideology and methodology that would project a clear standard of performance. Instead they have allowed their consumers, environmentalists, their own self created and self inflicted bureaucracy of self absorbed, parasitic, nit-pickers and quasi-farmers, who think that they are lawyers, to dictate and project a delusional facade onto what should have been a positive and progressive market standard. A standard that held the central core of soil culture and competent agro-ecosystem management as paramount. They have in fact now panted themselves into a corner. That corner will more than likely be very small , only time will tell whether they can expand that corner into a slightly larger space. At this point I see it as always being a corner, modest at best. There was a time that they were miles ahead of their competition, if they had moved forward with deliberation and vision they may have even absorbed their competition by setting the standard by which all the food and agriculture green labels would have been judged. The future now belongs to the Groff*s of this continent. This is of course to much of a burden to put on Steve and his family alone but I see them as archetypes of all those innovators out there who are designing hybrid systems. These may be the bridges that we and our progeny need to get from here to there. I just hope our grandchildren will read Wendell Berry and *get it.* Best, Ted To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 08:34:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28206 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01781 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:58:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01772 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:58:40 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:57:06 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:57:06 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.66] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0646363c ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:56:54 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991015064517.0086dcc0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:45:17 -0500 To: Subject: Slaying Monsters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3212 >You don't like the "kick them good, when they're down" attitude >towards a corporation? A wounded elephant is very dangerous. A wounded >corporation is even more so. We now learning how to inflict wounds on >a corporation, but we have not learned yet how to slay one. But we're >getting there. Soon, I hope. To quote a famous person in the Western World, "Ask and ye shall receive." Below is an address and a teaser bit of the article related to your thoughts. The author's address http://www.essential.org/monitor/monitor.html may also have more information. Mike Miller >From http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/charter/death.html Death Penalty for Corporations Comes of Age In two surprising recent cases, a law school professor and a circuit court judge seek to revoke the charters of corporate lawbreakers. By Russell Mokhiber We know what the death penalty for individuals means: Commit an egregious crime, die at the hands of the state. What does it mean to talk about the "death penalty" for corporations? Simply this: Commit an egregious wrong and have your charter revoked. In other words, lose the state's permission to exist. It's an intriguing concept, because most of us never think about corporations needing anyone's permission to exist. But they do. Throughout the nation's history, the states have had - and still have - the authority to give birth to a corporation by granting a corporate charter, and to impose the death penalty on corporate wrongdoers by revoking its charter. Activist-author Richard Grossman points out that in 1890, for example, New York's highest court revoked the charter of the North River Sugar Refining Corporation - referring to the judgment explicitly as one of "corporate death." It was once widely understood that the states had this power. "New York, Ohio, Michigan and Nebraska revoked the charters of oil, match, sugar and whiskey trusts" in the 1800s, Grossman wrote in the pamphlet, "Taking Care of Business: Citizenship and the Charter of Incorporation," co-authored with Frank Adams. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 10:10:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29696 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27745 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:30:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27735 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:30:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29887 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA27087; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:28:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from bsg-ma1a-212.ix.netcom.com(209.110.248.212) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027075; Fri Oct 15 08:27:55 1999 Message-ID: <026c01bf1711$44433000$d4f86ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Ted Rogers" , , Subject: Re: The Organic Landscape (long; was Organic EXTREEMLYCheaper) -Reply Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:29:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3213 Snipped most of Ted's message leaving the last two paragrapghs. I can honestly say when you folks start discussing the large economic big agricultural picture ya loose me a bit (ok alot ). But this last paragraph about the organics "movement" painting themselves into a corner and the discussion of why organics has not and may never become the conventional mode of feeding the country/world got me thinking. My observation most organic growers are small local growers, there are a few large growers following conventional packaging shipping models but not many. I would suggest this is due to the fact that most of the organic growers WANT to stay local and not get on the food producing treadmill. As the saying goes comparing organic vs. conventional maybe like comparing apples and oranges(when talking about food distribution) That said however I do think maybe idealistically "all" the food in the US could be produce organically, however the fly in the oinment is still distribution/packaging/ middlemen............Thanks from a tiny grower who's happy in my little corner :) Beth >They have in fact now panted themselves into a corner. That corner will more than likely be very small , only time will tell whether they can expand that corner into a slightly larger space. At this point I see it as always being a corner, modest at best. There was a time that they were miles ahead of their competition, if they had moved forward with deliberation and vision they may have even absorbed their competition by setting the standard by which all the food and agriculture green labels would have been judged. > >The future now belongs to the Groff*s of this continent. This is of course to much of a burden to put on Steve and his family alone but I see them as archetypes of all those innovators out there who are designing hybrid systems. These may be the bridges that we and our progeny need to get from here to there. I just hope our grandchildren will read Wendell Berry and *get it.* > >Best, > >Ted > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 10:15:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29763 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01244 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:40:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01237 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00066 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:39:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id JAA14634; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38072F58.BDE3C1C8@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:42:49 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: glenn@smallfarms.com, Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: [Fwd: N&O article on hog farm regs (fwd)] References: <380612C9.CD73CB3E@unity.ncsu.edu> <38063F41.236C@smallfarms.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3214 Glenn wrote: > Thanks, Russ: > > My concern is that farmers are able to make the economic transition > successfully. Environmental regulations, while needed and desireable, > have been used in the past to eliminate or reduce the number of small > operators. I'm thinking of the local, family gas station. > > Thanks for the update. > > glenn > Buy from the Farmer > http://www.smallfarms.com Most of the damaged/destroyed hog farms/lagoons were contract farms that were made by Murphy, Prestige, or Brown. Most of the family operations couldn't compete (My brother-in-law included) and got out of the business. When the market bottomed out on pork last year, the few that were still here probably got out. Corporate farming is the norm here, unfortunately, and they had the run of the place until recently. (Murphy was a state senator in the 1980's! Much of the legislation that was passed during his tenure allowed the spread of corporate farming throughout the state. In fact the NC hog population rose ten fold between 1980 and 1990!) I think that most of the stuff going on now is trying to rectify some of the bad environmental decisions that state made in the past two decades. While I think that Family-run businesses should be protected (and BTW Brown Family Farms, and Murphy Farms are considered "Family-Run" even though almost all of their operation, to my knowledge, is contracted out), I think that corporate farms should be more closely regulated (In North Carolina, The contract farmer doesn't own the pigs, or the building, but he does own the waste produced by the animals, and is responsible for it's disposal). Prior to the Floyd disaster, there was a two year moratorium on new hog farms (over a certain size), and the state was evaluating the efficacy of different waste handling systems (instead of lagoons). The swine manure that I used for my experiments came from a facility that was under evaluation. It was basically a waste-water treatment facility that screened out the solids, and placed the water through primary and secondary treatment before reusing the water to wash out the houses, and begin the process again. Anyway. . .That's my two cents worth (okay maybe a little more). . .Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 11:18:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01141 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00888 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:35:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00821 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01402 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA10386; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:34:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38073C3B.DD94568D@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:37:48 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ted Rogers , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: The Organic Landscape (long; was Organic EXTREEMLYCheaper) -Reply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3215 I think Ted and Ann are both right. I think that the US could be all-organic, (so did Langley, see below), but I also think that time may be passed. I feel that not only are competent farmers required, but equally competent extension agents/specialists are needed. This is a woefully neglected area. I think that even competent/good conventional farmers would be hesitant to throw their hat into the organic ring. It's a gamble. It's a complete unknown. And they would go it alone. . .There is no infrastructure dedicated to helping organic/transitional farmers! If a conventional farmer has a problem (with a disease or nutrient deficiency) he could call up his local Ext. Agent and he would be told what to spray to kill the bug, or eliviate the deficiency. The other night on the new I saw something about "the Freedom to Farm" Act. About how everyone was going to move away from Federal subsidies, and produce different commodities. Well, growers in this Midwest area (not sure where exactly) was still growing corn, and soybeans, just like they (and their neighbors) always had. Prices have dropped through the floor, and more subsidies are being used. I think this is another side to the problem. It's a gamble to change what you know and grow. Maybe I'm way off-base (it's certainly happened before), but in these Midwestern areas, the Ext. Agent/specialist may not be comfortable with different commodities either. . . But. . . back to organic vs. conventional. . . I think the yield difference is more related to soil management/micro-macro- nutrient content, the same way that food quality is related to these elements. When we apply organic amendments and synthetic fertilizers to the same fields (different plots, of course), we had no significant yield differences, except in fields where disease was present. In those fields/plots, soils with organic amendments usually had lower disease, and produced more tomatoes. Fertilizer plots had weights of 236 lbs. in surface mulched (SM) plots, while tilled plots with fertilizer yielded only 67.7 lbs. per plot. Plots with composted cotton gin trash yielded the highest overall amounts, with 187.9 lbs. per SM plot, and 135.4 lbs. per tilled plot. Plots containing hog waste offered 156.6 lbs. per SM plot, and 108.3 lbs. per tilled plot. (BTW, my dissertation will be published before any of the three papers that will come from my diss.) One of the amendments used came from livestock, one was a green manure, the other was an agricultural waste product, composted cotton gin trash (CGT). The CGT gave the best disease suppression, highest overall yields (an average of 161.7 lbs/plot, while fertilizer gave only 151.9 lbs/plot), was free, and reduced environmental pollution. (What was the cotton Gin going to do with it?) The thing that's important is that this information has to make it into the hands of those that can use it! If we can convince growers that not only will organic amendments grow food, bu they can reduce disease, and be sold at a higher price, then I think even the most recalcitrant grower will think twice about organic farming. . . okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox, besides I'm preachin' to the choir here. (I was trying to think of another clich I could throw in, but drew a blank. . . ) . . . Let me know if I'm wrong. . . Russ Here are some references that I've used in a paper that is planning to be published sometime this (make that the next) millennium: Klonsky, K. and L. Tourte 1998. Organic agricultural production in the United States: debates and directions. Amer. J. Agr. Econ. 80: 1119-1124. Langley, J. A., E. O. Heady and K. D. Olson 1983. The macroimplications of a complete transformation of U.S. agricultural production to organic farming practices. Agric. Ecos. Environ. 10: 323-333. Lohr, L. 1998. Implications of organic certification for market structure and trade. Amer. J. Agr. Econ. 80: 1125-1133. Thompson 1998. Consumer demand for organic foods: What we know and what we need to know. Amer. J. Agr. Econ. 80: 1113-1118. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 11:40:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01841 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:40:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09379 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:54:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f45.hotmail.com [216.32.181.45]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09318 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13193 invoked by uid 0); 15 Oct 1999 14:51:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19991015145156.13192.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 24.95.173.142 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:51:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [24.95.173.142] From: "Lester Loam" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Shameless promotion/Organic landscape Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:51:56 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3216 I shouldn't try to combine two threads in one message but I'll at least try to keep it short. Glenn suggests that we shamelessly promote organic. Why not? Even though (as Bart points out) some organic food may not be substantially different from conventional, does anyone realize how valuable the O word is? While the percentage of consumers who actually buy organic food isn't what we would like it to be, it is a lot higher than the percentage who would go out of their way to avoid organic food. That percentage is probably very, very small, Avery's arguments notwithstanding. Even he can't turn consumers off to organic food with E. coli scare tactics. Compare that with the biotech industry's problem trying to forestal gmo labelling. That's a no brainer. How many consumers would actually seek out gm labelled foods? About as many as would avoid organic. I don't even think Avery would refuse to eat one of Joel Salatin's chickens. (Not a great example, since Joel isn't certified organic.) How many would avoid gm food? Do the math and you'll see what they are up against. Try as they might, they don't have an O word that consumers trust and seek out. To see the lengths that the industry is going to, check out http://www.betterfoods.org/ the home page for The Alliance for Better Foods. Their motto, Improving Agriculture through Biotechnology sounds a lot like the old Better Living through Chemistry motto that somehow fell out of favor with consumers. How long will it take them to realize that "through Biotechnology" isn't a great selling slogan. Still, if I was teaching a class in PR, I would use the copy on their labelling page as a great example of spin. Ted may be right that the Groffs are the hybrid of the future. So who is up for the battle over what the green labels are going to mean? Who is going to try to keep gmo products from qualifying? That battle for the middle ground could be interesting when the "real" food companies start going for it. Ted also says it will be generations or centuries until we make any changes that come close to the organic vision. He's probably right. But the reasons are mostly human, like a lack of talented farmers and supportive social institutions. The inertia is great. Changing these things gracefully takes time. Unless the vision calls for an increase in livestock numbers (which isn't likely) and you have to live with the biological limits of livestock gestation periods, the pace of change isn't constrained much by biological or physical limits. A decade of good care can turn soil health around. How long does it take to string up some fencing to graze ruminants? What's the useful life of a hog or chicken house before it crumbles to the ground and needs replacing? Look at the changes that take place in an abandoned field in a decade or two and it's pretty obvious that Mother Nature can move a lot faster than we can. lester ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 12:54:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03478 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13914 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:08:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13909 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:08:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FJN00AUSJDSH6@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:28:21 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Microsoft targets DoJ antitrust budget To: SANET-mg Cc: iffs@nal.usda.gov Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1272118916==_ma============" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3217 --============_-1272118916==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy, all-- This seems to me an important--and inevitable--precedent. Thought it=20 might interest you corporation-watchers. One could argue that=20 agribusiness does the same thing. But remember that Microsoft now=20 owns, controls, or has a say in a vast amount of the infrastructure=20 by which you and I now communicate via computers and the Internet. At what point will the World's Richest Geek decide he wants to start=20 taking a role in food systems and food production? At what point will=20 Microsoft start making its presence known in the work we all do? Just thankin' ahead, pards. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Microsoft Targets Antitrust Division's Budget Software giant urges Congress to cut millions from Clinton's proposal Dan Morgan, Juliet Eilperin, Washington Post =20 =46riday, October 15, 1999 Microsoft Corp. lobbyists and allies are aggressively pressing Congress to reduce next year's proposed funding for the Justice Department's antitrust division, the giant software company's accuser in a storied court battle. Microsoft representatives have urged House and Senate members to cut President Clinton's proposed funding for the division by about $9 million this year. And nonprofit organizations that receive financial support from the company have also urged key congressional appropriators to limit spending for the division when they begin their final negotiations on the Justice Department budget, possibly as early as Monday. The nonprofit groups made their request in a letter last month after an all-expenses-paid trip to Microsoft headquarters in Redmond, Wash., where they were entertained and briefed on an array of issues facing the company. Microsoft's latest efforts on Capitol Hill will have little or no impact on the department's antitrust case against the software giant, and for that reason they seem somewhat unusual. While companies regularly ask lawmakers to block federal agencies from implementing specific policies, it is more uncommon to seek an across-the-board cut in a department's budget, especially in the middle of a major court battle. But company officials said they want to send a strong message to the antitrust division. ``It's no secret we really have some serious concerns about some of the Department of Justice's conduct during the course of this litigation,'' said Jack Krumholtz, director of federal government affairs for Microsoft. Krumholtz cited recent news reports that Justice officials encouraged foreign governments to file suit against Microsoft. Assistant Attorney General Joel Klein has declared that those reports are false. The Clinton administration is seeking $114.3 million to cover the salaries of 360 attorneys now in the antitrust division and to fund the hiring of about 18 more legal staff members. That would be an increase of about 16 percent over the previous budget. While Senate appropriators have proposed a budget of $112.3 million, the House figure is only $105.2 million --and the Senate has come under pressure to give way to the House. Administration officials said the higher figure is urgently needed to cope with a sharp increase in corporate merger activity and to investigate criminal price-fixing. Support for the antitrust division's work remains strong in Congress. House Judiciary Committee Chairman Henry Hyde, R-Ill., called the division ``one of the best-run departments in the government.'' Wisconsin Sen. Herb Kohl, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee's antitrust subcommittee, said ``it would set (a) terrible precedent to alter the division's budget based on one case alone.'' But Sen. Slade Gorton, R-Wash., whose campaign has received about $51,000 from Microsoft or its employees since 1997, has been an outspoken supporter of a cut in the antitrust budget. Such an action would ``express total dissatisfaction with the way Justice is handling the case against Microsoft,'' said a spokeswoman for Gorton. She added that Gorton, a senior member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, is ``pretty confident he will be able to get (the Senate) number lowered closer to the House number.'' Microsoft has been sharply increasing its lobbying, political donations and support of a network of ``think tanks'' to counter the political and lobbying activities of its adversaries. Last month, a dozen handpicked representatives of influential Washington-based policy organizations traveled to Redmond for three days of briefings. Groups represented included Citizens for a Sound Economy, the National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, whose president, Grover Norquist, received $40,000 in lobbying payments from Microsoft in the last six months of 1998. Two days after returning from the trip, the three organizations and three others sent a letter to House appropriators urging that funding for the division be held to the lower House level. =A91999 San Francisco Chronicle Page A2 --============_-1272118916==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy, all-- This seems to me an important--and inevitable--precedent. Thought it might interest you corporation-watchers. One could argue that agribusiness does the same thing. But remember that Microsoft now owns, controls, or has a say in a vast amount of the infrastructure by which you and I now communicate via computers and the Internet.=20 At what point will the World's Richest Geek decide he wants to start taking a role in food systems and food production? At what point will Microsoft start making its presence known in the work we all do? Just thankin' ahead, pards. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Times_New_RomanMicrosoft Targets Antitrust=20 Division's Budget Software giant urges Congress to cut millions from Clinton's proposal Dan Morgan, Juliet Eilperin, Washington Post =20 =46riday, October 15, 1999 Microsoft Corp. lobbyists and allies are aggressively pressing Congress to reduce next year's proposed funding for the Justice Department's antitrust division, the giant software company's accuser in a storied court battle. Microsoft representatives have urged House and Senate members to cut President Clinton's proposed funding for the division by about $9 million this year. And nonprofit organizations that receive financial support from the company have also urged key congressional appropriators to limit spending for the division when they begin their final negotiations on the Justice Department budget, possibly as early as Monday. The nonprofit groups made their request in a letter last month after an all-expenses-paid trip to Microsoft headquarters in Redmond, Wash., where they were entertained and briefed on an array of issues facing the company. Microsoft's latest efforts on Capitol Hill will have little or no impact on the department's antitrust case against the software giant, and for that reason they seem somewhat unusual. While companies regularly ask lawmakers to block federal agencies from implementing specific policies, it is more uncommon to seek an across-the-board cut in a department's budget, especially in the middle of a major court battle. But company officials said they want to send a strong message to the antitrust division. ``It's no secret we really have some serious concerns about some of the Department of Justice's conduct during the course of this litigation,'' said Jack Krumholtz, director of federal government affairs for Microsoft. Krumholtz cited recent news reports that Justice officials encouraged foreign governments to file suit against Microsoft. Assistant Attorney General Joel Klein has declared that those reports are false. The Clinton administration is seeking $114.3 million to cover the salaries of 360 attorneys now in the antitrust division and to fund the hiring of about 18 more legal staff members. That would be an increase of about 16 percent over the previous budget. While Senate appropriators have proposed a budget of $112.3 million, the House figure is only $105.2 million --and the Senate has come under pressure to give way to the House. Administration officials said the higher figure is urgently needed to cope with a sharp increase in corporate merger activity and to investigate criminal price-fixing. Support for the antitrust division's work remains strong in Congress. House Judiciary Committee Chairman Henry Hyde, R-Ill., called the division ``one of the best-run departments in the government.'' Wisconsin Sen. Herb Kohl, the top Democrat on the Judiciary Committee's antitrust subcommittee, said ``it would set (a) terrible precedent to alter the division's budget based on one case alone.'' But Sen. Slade Gorton, R-Wash., whose campaign has received about $51,000 from Microsoft or its employees since 1997, has been an outspoken supporter of a cut in the antitrust budget. Such an action would ``express total dissatisfaction with the way Justice is handling the case against Microsoft,'' said a spokeswoman for Gorton. She added that Gorton, a senior member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, is ``pretty confident he will be able to get (the Senate) number lowered closer to the House number.'' Microsoft has been sharply increasing its lobbying, political donations and support of a network of ``think tanks'' to counter the political and lobbying activities of its adversaries. Last month, a dozen handpicked representatives of influential Washington-based policy organizations traveled to Redmond for three days of briefings. Groups represented included Citizens for a Sound Economy, the National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, whose president, Grover Norquist, received $40,000 in lobbying payments from Microsoft in the last six months of 1998. Two days after returning from the trip, the three organizations and three others sent a letter to House appropriators urging that funding for the division be held to the lower House level. =A91999 San Francisco Chronicle Page A2 --============_-1272118916==_ma============-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 13:08:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03725 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26015 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:33:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ark.com (mars.ark.com [209.53.216.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25962 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DigitalArk.ark.com (io5p1.ark.com [209.53.216.153]) by ark.com (8.9.3/8.5local) with ESMTP id JAA10582 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:31:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199910151631.JAA10582@ark.com> From: "Ellen Rainwalker" To: Subject: Animals know Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:28:29 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3218 Re nutrition - my cats will enthusiastically eat local eggs from free-range chickens, but they won't eat the regular eggs from the grocery store. And these are not picky cats, either. So they know something. Gorgeous Fall day up here on Vancouver Island. Cheers, Ellen To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 13:11:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03781 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26702 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:35:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26644 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP001.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.9]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21411 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38075899.51652050@sprintmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:38:49 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: [Fwd: SOUTHERN CLEAR CUTS & AERIAL SPRAYING] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------49B267E9E87313535F959D58" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3219 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------49B267E9E87313535F959D58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's an interesting Press Release fpr all of you in NC. Alex --------------49B267E9E87313535F959D58 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (smtp7.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.128.51]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29287 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 209.86.31.155 (user-38lc7sr.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.31.155]) by smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA21212; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3806F570.7A06@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:35:44 +0000 From: john johnson Reply-To: johnjgb@mindspring.com Organization: Katuah Earth First! X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: johnjgb@mindspring.com Subject: SOUTHERN CLEAR CUTS & AERIAL SPRAYING Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 (***Senders's note - please see the last section of this press release about spraying in Tennessee - this is soon to be a hot issue!) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACTS: Josh Abrams, 828/883-5889 Thursday, October 14, 1999 Trevor FitzGibbon, 202/332-0319 NEW STATE REPORT: HERBICIDE USE DOUBLES ON N.C. PINE PLANTATIONS, THREATENING HEALTH & WILDLIFE Agency Wants to End Property Tax Break Unless Land is Managed Safely; Residents Complain that Airborne Poisons are Raining on Their Homes Citing a sharp increase in the use of toxic herbicides on the state's rapidly expanding pine plantations, the North Carolina Wildlife Commission this week called for dramatic steps to protect the environment and natural resources. The most startling measure would revoke the lucrative agricultural (or "present use") tax status for foresters whose practices threaten wildlife. A new report by the commission says more than 64,000 acres were sprayed with the chemicals in 1997 nearly twice as many as the previous year. The drastic increase follows the rapid conversion from natural forests to pine plantations. Growers use a cocktail of powerful chemicals to kill young hardwood trees in monoculture pine farms. Formerly applied by workers on foot, the herbicides are increasingly being sprayed from aircraft. The report says that chemical spraying and other intensive management practices on the softwood plantations threaten songbirds, deer and small mammals, and notes that the monoculture plots often cannot support wild turkey populations in numbers large enough to hunt. The recommendations were welcomed by the Dogwood Alliance a coalition of 55 local groups working to protect Southeast forests but the group says the measure does not go far enough. "Citizens are outraged that big timber companies are spraying poison in our air and water," said Danna Smith, the group's executive director. "Replacing native forests with rows of pine trees has been a disaster for wildlife, local economies and communities; the aerial spraying of toxic chemicals rubs salt in the wound. The commission recommendations are a good first step, but they won't come close to eliminating the problem." Citizens Worry About Human Health Impacts: The North Carolina wildlife commissioners did not address the possible human health impacts of the increased chemical use, but residents throughout the Southeast pine country are growing increasingly outraged at the aerial assault on their homes and communities. "They spray straight up to the creeks and right over the ponds," said Gordon Hobbs, a hunter and landowner living near an International Paper pine plantation in Leland, N.C. "It is immoral for International Paper to poison and kill so much wildlife habitat." Two of the herbicides most widely used on the plantations are Garlon (generic: triclopyr) and Arsenal (generic: imazapyr). Used together, they wipe out virtually everything that isn't a pine tree. Much remains to be learned about their human health effects. Lack of safety information prompted regulators in Vermont to impose a moratorium on aerial herbicide spraying in 1997. Most health studies on Garlon, for example, were funded by the manufacturer, DowElanco. Studies have shown that female rats exposed to Garlon had a significant increase in mammary gland carcinoma breast cancer. It has also caused birth defects. In one study, Garlon turned up in 6 percent of subjects tested from the general U.S. population. While it can linger in treated soils for as long as two years, it also washes easily into lakes and streams. Ironically, Garlon is highly toxic to the soil microbes that help pine trees grow. Chronic exposure of lab animals to Arsenal has caused kidney cysts and increased cancers of the brain and thyroid. It can persist in soils for up to a year and has been shown to contaminate ground and surface water after forest application. The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service has identified 100 counties east of the Mississippi where endangered plant species may be threatened by the chemical. Meanwhile, half a dozen target species have grown resistant to Arsenal, meaning foresters are getting less bounce for the ounce. Herbicides are not the only chemical being dropped from aircraft onto the pine plantations. Beverly Hicks of Sequatachie County, Tenn., recently experienced the effects of fertilizer spraying by Bowater Timber Corporation on her home. "You could hear the pellets hit our roof and splash in our pond," she said. "My husband and I got terrible headaches and sore throats; my sister had blisters inside her nose. My neighbor couldn't go outside. She couldn't breathe." The local poison control center told Hicks the pellets indeed caused the reaction, but no one has yet been able to explain the long-term effects. For More Information, Contact: Josh Abrams, The Dogwood Alliance, 828/883-5889 Trevor FitzGibbon, Southeast Forest Project, 202/332-0319 -- Caveat: Modern Communication Technology is a double edged sword. If i don't return an email reply right away it is because i get too much damn email and i have taken a break to hike in the forest or work outside. Email can be overwhelming and alienating, but it is a tool isn't it? (let me know if you recieve too much email and want off my list!) ---------------------------------------- john johnson c/o KEF! P.O. Box 281 Chattanooga, TN 37401 ph. 423-949-5922 e mailto:johnjgb@mindspring.com technology is your friend! ---------------------------------------- !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WORLD-WIDE GENERAL STRIKE! NEXT JANUARY 1-3 2000 why not? Workers of the World - Relax Take a Break - Break the $y$tem! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --------------49B267E9E87313535F959D58-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 13:43:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04282 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07682 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:56:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07662 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FJN001JQLJ0NH@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:51:54 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Job opening: sustag communications mgr To: SANET-mg Cc: iffs@nal.usda.gov, klemme@aae.wisc.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3220 Howdy, all-- The best job in sustainable agriculture communications in the nation (I should know!) has *finally* been posted by the UW-Madison. And so we can finally formally and fully announce it to you. The job is the sustainable ag communications manager for the Center for Integrated Ag Systems. Here is the URL for a full job description, position duties, and application details: http://wiscinfo.doit.wisc.edu/ohr/pvl/pv35593.html Note that applications must be submitted by 28 October. We're looking to get someone on board December 1. Pass this along to anyone you think might be interested. We're looking for a broad and excellent pool of candidates. Yes, this is my CIAS job, which I'm leaving at the end of the year. And, yes, I can answer basic questions about the job, though I obviously can't supply "insider" type information on the hire. Otherwise, Rick Klemme, CIAS director, is the contact for this hire. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Harold: Maude, do you pray? Maude: Pray? No, I communicate. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 17:04:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08374 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14419 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:33:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14276 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08413 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <4QWP3L1T>; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:31:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'Russ Bulluck'" , glenn@smallfarms.com, Sustainable Ag Subject: RE: [Fwd: N&O article on hog farm regs (fwd)] Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:30:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3221 Russ: About 25 years ago (mid '70s) I studied several methods for anaerobic digestion for the production of methane ('dungas') as an alternative energy source. One text was by a S. African hog farmer who had become energy self-sufficient using a continuous-feed digester (tertiary waste treatment) that allowed re-use of the effluent as you describe for washing out the houses and then cycling that and the solids back through the digester. Remaining sludge after 60-90 days in the digester, was safe for land application as fertilizer. The methane produced was sufficient to drive a modified diesel engine/generator that provided 15KWH of electricity for the entire operation. With the co-generation laws in the US, the local power company would be obliged to buy any excess. This always seemed a no-brainer. Except for the initial outlay to construct the digester(s), everything else recycles or can be sold. I'd be interested in your thoughts. Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ As for evolution, I have a hard time believing that billions of years ago two protozoan bumped into each other under a volcanic cesspool and evolved into Cindy Crawford.-- Robert G. Lee ___________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Russ Bulluck [mailto:lrbulluc@unity.ncsu.edu] Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 9:43 AM To: glenn@smallfarms.com; Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: [Fwd: N&O article on hog farm regs (fwd)] Glenn wrote: > Thanks, Russ: > > My concern is that farmers are able to make the economic transition > successfully. Environmental regulations, while needed and desireable, > have been used in the past to eliminate or reduce the number of small > > > >>>>major snip > The swine manure that I used for my experiments came from a facility that was under evaluation. It was basically a waste-water treatment facility that screened out the solids, and placed the water through primary and secondary treatment before reusing the water to wash out the houses, and begin the process again. Anyway. . .That's my two cents worth (okay maybe a little more). . .Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 17:42:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08914 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09451 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:11:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09432 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:11:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Bagelhole1@aol.com Received: from Bagelhole1@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 7OROa09316 (4571) for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.292e93bf.2538f216@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:09:42 EDT Subject: feedback please To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3222 Just wanted to make you aware of http://bagelhole.org (not fully updated) a site focusing on developing an ever-improving list of low-tech sustainable ideas/methods such that individuals, groups, and communities might become relatively self-sustainable as soon as possible. "Community Food Security" is a major adjunct of this non-commercial, humanitarian project. Kind Regards, Tom Osher San Francisco To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 17:46:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08954 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:12:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mr.usu.edu (mr.usu.edu [129.123.1.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09549 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ext.usu.edu (ext.usu.edu [129.123.20.12]) by mr.usu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9221A1D35F for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from EDU-USU-EXT/SpoolDir by ext.usu.edu (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 15:07:25 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by EDU-USU-EXT (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 15:07:18 -0700 Received: from bobn.plant_sci (129.123.13.19) by ext.usu.edu (Mercury 1.44); 15 Oct 99 15:07:12 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19991016150814.006b2468@ext.usu.edu> X-Sender: bobn@ext.usu.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:08:14 -0600 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Bob Newhall Subject: Western SARE Technical Review Committee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3223 Please reply to Western SARE ( Robert Newhall: bobn@ext.usu.edu) or address below. Western SARE Seeking Technical Review Committee Nominations The Western Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education program would like to continue to expand our pool of Technical Review Committee members. These individuals will review grant proposals and respond to the Western SARE Administrative Council when recommendations are requested. Nominees should be active in the agricultural community and understand the salient issues of sustainable agriculture. Background materials about the SARE mission and the work being done by the program are available from the Western Region office at the address below, and at (http://wsare.ext.usu). We are soliciting individuals from the following areas Farmer/Rancher Producers Livestock Small Grains Horticulture Vegetable Production Tropical Agriculture Native American Systems Other Professional Agricultural Personnel Cooperative Extension Agricultural Experiment Station USDA - Natural Resource Conservation Service USDA - Farm Service Agency Soil & Water Conservation Associations/Districts USDA - Resource Conservation & Development (RC&D's) Agriculture Consultants Non-Profit Organizations Other Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO's) Areas of interest: Livestock, Agronomy, Horticulture, Rural Sociology, Tropical Agriculture, Aquaculture, Adult Education, Botany, Entomology, Soils, Marketing, Grazing, Dairy, Agricultural Economics. Quality of Live Issues, etc. Appointments to the Western SARE Technical Review Committee usually last three to four years. The commitment includes, at least, one meeting a year -- Either SARE Research and Education Grants and Professional Development Program Grants in January OR Farmer/Rancher Grants in April. Some members of the Technical Review Committee preform their reviews outside the meetings and are not required to attend the annual meeting. For reviewers who attend the meetings, they are expected to evaluate grant proposals before the Technical Panel meets. Costs associated with attending the meeting are paid by the program. To apply, or to nominate a candidate, please send or e-mail name and contact information, along with a brief description of qualifications and background, to Western SARE, 4820 Old Main Hill, Utah State, Logan, Utah 84322-4820. ************************************* Robert L. Newhall Deputy Western SARE Coordinator Utah State University Logan, UT 84322-4820 Voice: 435-797-2183 Fax: 435-797-2117 bobn@ext.usu.edu ************************************** About Western SARE Since 1988 through federal fiscal 1999, the U.S. Congress has allocated more than $103.3 million to the SARE effort; Western SARE has received $23.2 million in funds. The SARE program, which was authorized by Congress in the 1990 and 1996 Farm Bills, is managed in the West by an Administrative Council. The committee of scientists, producers and administrators represent a variety of interests and provide local leadership to research and training efforts. It operates in cooperation with the USDA SARE office and the Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service. V. Philip Rasmussen, a soil scientist at the program's host institution, Utah State University, is regional coordinator of the Western program. The Western region includes Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming and the Island Protectorates of American Samoa, Guam, Micronesia and the Northern Mariana Islands. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 15 20:27:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10710 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25403 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:53:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25339 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:53:34 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:52:01 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:52:00 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.72] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 123e323c ; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:51:50 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991015184010.007d3800@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:40:10 -0500 To: Subject: Sewage Sludge Biofuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3224 See http://ens.lycos.com/ens/oct99/1999L-10-14-06.html for a potential beneficial use of sewage sludge??? but I would think agricultural leftovers should be composted or otherwise returned to the land. Mike Miller Biofuels Biofuels, one of the biggest groups of new fuels, are alcohols, ethers, esters, and other chemicals made from plants, agricultural and forestry leftovers, and a large portion of municipal solid and industrial waste. Biofuels used for transportation include bioethanol, biodiesel, biomethanol and pyrolysis oils. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 16 02:41:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14319 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA08556 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08465 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.201.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.201]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13326; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38080749.C1FBEEB8@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:04:09 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lester Loam CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Shameless promotion/Organic landscape References: <19991015145156.13192.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3225 I get a big kick out of remembering how it used to be. people would ask what I do, and I said I teach organic method for garden/farm, their faces would change to almost a sneer and the descending tone of "OH!" clearly showed their scorn. And organic fruit was, everyone "knew", full of insect bites, scroungy looking, no good at all. So all of a sudden, organic food is the most expensive, the most desirable if you can afford it. Ha ha. I am not at all sorry for all the hell-and-high-water I had to go thru to start the organic movement in California, all by little lonesome self, yeah. It has paid off. Lester Loam wrote: > I shouldn't try to combine two threads in one message but I'll at least try > to keep it short. > > Glenn suggests that we shamelessly promote organic. Why not? Even though > (as Bart points out) some organic food may not be substantially different > from conventional, does anyone realize how valuable the O word is? > > While the percentage of consumers who actually buy organic food isn't what > we would like it to be, it is a lot higher than the percentage who would go > out of their way to avoid organic food. That percentage is probably very, > very small, Avery's arguments notwithstanding. Even he can't turn consumers > off to organic food with E. coli scare tactics. > > Compare that with the biotech industry's problem trying to forestal gmo > labelling. That's a no brainer. How many consumers would actually seek out > gm labelled foods? About as many as would avoid organic. I don't even > think Avery would refuse to eat one of Joel Salatin's chickens. (Not a > great example, since Joel isn't certified organic.) How many would avoid gm > food? Do the math and you'll see what they are up against. Try as they > might, they don't have an O word that consumers trust and seek out. > > To see the lengths that the industry is going to, check out > http://www.betterfoods.org/ the home page for The Alliance for Better Foods. > Their motto, Improving Agriculture through Biotechnology sounds a lot like > the old Better Living through Chemistry motto that somehow fell out of favor > with consumers. How long will it take them to realize that "through > Biotechnology" isn't a great selling slogan. Still, if I was teaching a > class in PR, I would use the copy on their labelling page as a great example > of spin. > > Ted may be right that the Groffs are the hybrid of the future. So who is up > for the battle over what the green labels are going to mean? Who is going > to try to keep gmo products from qualifying? That battle for the middle > ground could be interesting when the "real" food companies start going for > it. > > Ted also says it will be generations or centuries until we make any changes > that come close to the organic vision. He's probably right. But the > reasons are mostly human, like a lack of talented farmers and supportive > social institutions. The inertia is great. Changing these things > gracefully takes time. > > Unless the vision calls for an increase in livestock numbers (which isn't > likely) and you have to live with the biological limits of livestock > gestation periods, the pace of change isn't constrained much by biological > or physical limits. A decade of good care can turn soil health around. How > long does it take to string up some fencing to graze ruminants? What's the > useful life of a hog or chicken house before it crumbles to the ground and > needs replacing? > > Look at the changes that take place in an abandoned field in a decade or two > and it's pretty obvious that Mother Nature can move a lot faster than we > can. > > lester > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 16 02:41:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14325 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA08392 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08375 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.201.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.201]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13161; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3807EDD5.1576AF3C@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:15:34 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic, Soil Nutrients, Mineralization, malnutrition, part 1 References: <224CC071F9F@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3226 even more to the point is the account of Pottenger's Cats. This scientist proved his point about diet. He tested cats with varying diets and proved unequivocally that it was their diet that made the difference in the cats. The photos are very revealing. He fed some cooked meat, while others got raw meat. There is a striking evidence--the bone degeneration is something no one could deny. Really everyone should know about this piece of research. So very well done. Undeniable results from just diet. Klaus Wiegand wrote: > Food Processing and Malnutrition > The Economic Destruction of The Food Chain > By John Coleman > > From 1811 to 1816 groups of English artisans known as Luddites > rallied against the machinery of the industrial revolution. The > advent of intensive mechanisation brought not only the end of > skilled craft labour, but ultimately set in motion the > widespread malnutrition of the westernised worlds. > > > In 1898 the first edition of Peter Kropotkin's Fields, Factories > And Workshops Tomorrow was published. In it he says: > > "The necessary machinery was created, and the British > production of manufactured goods went on at a gigantic > pace. In the course of less than seventy years- from 1810 > to 1878- the output of coal grew from 10 to 133,000,000 > tons; the imports of raw materials rose from 30 to > 380,000,000 tons; and the exports of manufactured goods > from 46 to 200,000,000 pounds. The tonnage of the > commercial fleet was nearly trebled. Fifteen thousand > miles of railways were build." > > With the move of rural peoples into the factories, and the > cities that grew out of them, the demand came for these > populations to be fed from the remaining, and now labour scarce, > farming communities. One particular problem of this new system > was that fresh wholefoods do not keep for more than a few days > without serious spoiling. The only economic solution was the > industrialisation of food production, to replace the loss of > labour, and rationalising the food supply. The need was to > decrease the bulk of the food materials and improve their shelf > life. It was grains that would remain the staple foods of > industrial society. Grains could be harvested easily, milled > locally and then shipped into the cities as flour. By the time > the factory worker got his "daily bread", most of what little > nutritional value grains possessed had been damaged by oxidation > or heat. The advent of white bread, brought about due to roller > mills, may also have brought about the first cases of polio (see > 'Immunization: The Reality Behind The Myth' by Walene James, for > links between diet and disease and natural immunity). > > The problem of food preservation was solved mainly by either > denaturing foods so much that they no longer supported bacterial > or fungal life, (Heating, refining, extruding, irradiating, > hydrogenating) or by canning or embalming the foods in poisons. > Later improvements on these techniques means that there are some > foods in modern society that simply will not decompose, thus > demonstrating their unsuitability to support life. All of this > was missed in an era where people were keen to reap the benefits > of technology and understood very little, if anything, about > nutrition. So long as enough food was eaten for men and women to > work the factories, all was well. > > The forces of nature are not to be disobeyed without the > severest of consequences, and so it was that the very means that > delivered modern humans from toil against feeding themselves > lead directly to severe physical degeneration. While the old > diseases of serious malnutrition waned, the lesson of feeding > properly had not been fully explored. This situation remains > even today, despite the large amount of money spent on > scientific research people are still clueless as to what > constitutes healthy food. Even worse than not knowing which > foods are healthy, the true destructive danger of refined and > processed foods has not been publicised despite these dangers > being known for over half a century. Another effect of > industrialisation was the creation of a new super rich > capitalist class amongst the masses of impoverished working > classes. The capitalist class depends upon industry for its > survival and is determined to defend it at any costs to > humanity. > > In 1945 a book called Nutrition And Physical Degeneration was > published. The author, Weston A. Price, D.D.S., had studied in > very great detail the effects of industrial foods upon primitive > peoples used to eating their traditional wholefood diets. His > research uncovers the horrifying effects that refined foods such > as flour goods, sugar, candies, canned foods, preserves and > other devitalised foods have on the humans who eat them. As a > dental surgeon he concentrated on tooth decay and deformities of > the skull. Even today, modern citizens, lacking knowledge of > basic human anatomy, are unaware of the degeneration that > continues to destroy health and undermine continued survival. It > has even been though that these degeneration's are a genetic > inheritance, such is the ignorance of the masses that they blame > nature for errors of their own commission. The effects of > malnutrition are far from just facial deformities and include > generally poor development of the skeleton, enfeebled internal > organs and severe mental retardation. Other concerns are > expressed by Dr. Price when he suggest links with malnutrition > and lower IQs, personality disturbances, criminality, > tuberculosis (and general susceptibility to disease), > infertility, difficulties with giving birth and birth defects. > Since nutritional status affects all metabolic processes, it is > a factor in all diseases and human pursuits. > > Making use of a few of Weston Price's images and observations, > it shall be demonstrated that modern man remains grossly > deformed despite and because of inadequate nutritional > education. The 50th edition of Nutrition And Physical > Degeneration has 526 pages, of which only a tiny sample of > Weston Price's work will be presented. Various doctors have > written glowingly of this book: > > "Most of us cannot remember what life was like without > sugar and refined foods without chemicals added. Weston > Price's book drives home that the beginning of many > degenerative diseases started with the introduction of > processed foods. A must for anyone seriously interested in > the effects of foods on health." Robert F. Cathcart, M.D. > > "A powerful teastament to the adverse effects of our modern > diet upon health. As shocking and relevant in its > implications today as when it was first written." Melvyn > R. Werbach, M.D. > > "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration is an incredibly > important classical work. It was a major force in turning > my head around, and it deserves to be in every classic > library on nutrition." Warren M. Levin, M.D. > > Weston Price studied over 14 different peoples of which we shall > look at just three. In most cases the traditional peoples had > fed on any edible things found locally. These range from a > diversity of animal parts to fruits and ancient agricultural > products. Animal organs, yucca roots, water grasses, insects and > many diverse but unrefined foods are eaten. In most cases these > traditional feeding patterns produce sturdy and well formed > populations free of the ravages of degenerative diseases that > plague modern society even today. The eating of uncooked foods > whether of animal or plant origins is significant in all cases, > with cooking predominant in agriculturalised peoples. Of all the > peoples studied, the so called "Eskimos" with their massive > reliance on animal foods had the poorest physical build and > longevity, but still managed to produce stronger bodies than the > average westerner. > > In the book Stone Age Diet by Leon Chaitow, we learn about the > early origins of physical degeneration as a result of > agriculture. He says that tooth decay was rarely found in > Neolithic times before man started farming, but that decay was > commonly found in the teeth of fossils after the start of > agricultural settlements (Robert Coates, 'What is Natural > Diet?', Nutrition and Health, Vol 1, 1982). Chaitow also points > out that until agriculture began some 10 to 12 thousand years > ago, and people for the first time crowded into towns, many > infectious diseases were extremely rare (C. Wells, 'Bones, > Bodies and Diseases', Thames and Hudson, 1964). Tuberculosis is > only known from the late Stone Age and not at all in Paleolithic > times (P. A. Janssems, 'Paleopathology, Diseases and Injuries of > Prehistoric Man', John Baker, 1970) and Malaria is only thought > to have started with the clearing of forests and creation of > pools for mosquitoes to breed in (Robert Coates op. cit.). John > Robson, M.D., of the University of South Carolina suggests that > the abandonment of wild fruits as a dietary component may be > responsible for many of the present day problems of modern man > (John Robson, 'Journal of Human Nutrition', February 1978). The > idea that primitive mankind lived under the constant threat of > disease and starvation is a myth created by modern age > technophiles to cloud the issue that malnutrition and disease > are in fact the modern normal. > > Today American middle-class white women with their diets high in > protein and fats give birth to babies that are more unhealthy > than poor immigrant women. (JAMA, December 21, 1994) > > The food industries and the chemical companies that control much > of modern industry seem to have such control over medical > opinion and influence in society, that healthy nutrition, the > most basic requirement of humans, is still spared little thought > today. They exert this power via official bodies such as > agricultural and medical regulatory agencies. This has ensured > that the scientific evidence pointing to the dangers of food > processing and intoxication with dangerous chemicals has been > dampened down to the extent required to maintain public > confidence. Industrial food processors employ huge teams of > scientists, often engaged in research on animals, in order to > demonstrate the safety of their products to regulatory bodies > which ignore the abundant evidence of human degeneration. With > the grain barons able to threaten a national food crisis at > will, their ability to control social policy is potentially very > great. > > In the USA it is illegal to use radical dietary therapy to treat > serious illnesses like cancer. Similar attempts to open such > centres in the UK have also been thwarted by the industrial > medical interests. Apparently eating properly is dangerous > "quackery". In the book Dirty Medicine Martin J. Walker says of > wholefoods in modern diet: > > "By the mid-sixties in America, old ideas about wholefoods > and the high quality nutritional status of vegetables and > fruits were being revitalised by the 'health food' > revolution. Representatives of the chemical and > pharmaceutical industries tried to ensure, however, that > those who believed in the 'health food' concept did not > link concepts of nutrition with those of disease. ... > Today there are two schools of nutrition, the 'old' and > the 'new'. Almost all the 'old school' nutritionists are > linked to the processed food industry and represent vested > interests. Although such people claim to be guided by > science, their theoretical position consists of highly > generalised assumptions. At the centre of these > assumptions is the 'balanced diet'." > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 16 02:43:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14334 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:43:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA08582 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08476 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.201.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.201]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13347; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38080883.EBF92E1@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:09:23 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lester Loam CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Shameless promotion/Organic landscape References: <19991015145156.13192.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3227 I know all you folks don't want to hear it, but it is still the truth--the time is soon coming when there will be nothing but organic worldwide, organic food grown literally from pole to pole, and everyone will grow his/her own food. There will no longer be farmers, not even organic farmers. There will be only people who raise their own food. SOON. There certainly will not be any kind of commerce or ag--just each one raising his own food, and of course it will be, organically. Lester Loam wrote: > I shouldn't try to combine two threads in one message but I'll at least try > to keep it short. > > Glenn suggests that we shamelessly promote organic. Why not? Even though > (as Bart points out) some organic food may not be substantially different > from conventional, does anyone realize how valuable the O word is? > > While the percentage of consumers who actually buy organic food isn't what > we would like it to be, it is a lot higher than the percentage who would go > out of their way to avoid organic food. That percentage is probably very, > very small, Avery's arguments notwithstanding. Even he can't turn consumers > off to organic food with E. coli scare tactics. > > Compare that with the biotech industry's problem trying to forestal gmo > labelling. That's a no brainer. How many consumers would actually seek out > gm labelled foods? About as many as would avoid organic. I don't even > think Avery would refuse to eat one of Joel Salatin's chickens. (Not a > great example, since Joel isn't certified organic.) How many would avoid gm > food? Do the math and you'll see what they are up against. Try as they > might, they don't have an O word that consumers trust and seek out. > > To see the lengths that the industry is going to, check out > http://www.betterfoods.org/ the home page for The Alliance for Better Foods. > Their motto, Improving Agriculture through Biotechnology sounds a lot like > the old Better Living through Chemistry motto that somehow fell out of favor > with consumers. How long will it take them to realize that "through > Biotechnology" isn't a great selling slogan. Still, if I was teaching a > class in PR, I would use the copy on their labelling page as a great example > of spin. > > Ted may be right that the Groffs are the hybrid of the future. So who is up > for the battle over what the green labels are going to mean? Who is going > to try to keep gmo products from qualifying? That battle for the middle > ground could be interesting when the "real" food companies start going for > it. > > Ted also says it will be generations or centuries until we make any changes > that come close to the organic vision. He's probably right. But the > reasons are mostly human, like a lack of talented farmers and supportive > social institutions. The inertia is great. Changing these things > gracefully takes time. > > Unless the vision calls for an increase in livestock numbers (which isn't > likely) and you have to live with the biological limits of livestock > gestation periods, the pace of change isn't constrained much by biological > or physical limits. A decade of good care can turn soil health around. How > long does it take to string up some fencing to graze ruminants? What's the > useful life of a hog or chicken house before it crumbles to the ground and > needs replacing? > > Look at the changes that take place in an abandoned field in a decade or two > and it's pretty obvious that Mother Nature can move a lot faster than we > can. > > lester > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 16 02:44:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14338 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:43:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA08808 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:21:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08627 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:21:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.201.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.201]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13411; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38081258.6B0FB174@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:51:21 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Misha CC: SANET-mg , iffs@nal.usda.gov Subject: Re: Microsoft targets DoJ antitrust budget References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3228 I read that he is going to use his money to feed the children that go hungry now. I think I heard one other thing for his money--forget exactly, but was something similar. It would be wonderful if he did feed the 3rd world kids that are indeed starving now. I have been where I could see such things. Certainly no one else has succeeded in doing it. Misha wrote: > Howdy, all-- > > This seems to me an important--and inevitable--precedent. Thought it might interest you corporation-watchers. One could argue that agribusiness does the same thing. But remember that Microsoft now owns, controls, or has a say in a vast amount of the infrastructure by which you and I now communicate via computers and the Internet. > > At what point will the World's Richest Geek decide he wants to start taking a role in food systems and food production? At what point will Microsoft start making its presence known in the work we all do? > > Just thankin' ahead, pards. > > peace > misha > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Microsoft Targets Antitrust Division's Budget > Software giant urges Congress to cut millions from Clinton's proposal > > Dan Morgan, Juliet Eilperin, Washington Post > > Friday, October 15, 1999 > > Microsoft Corp. lobbyists and allies are > aggressively pressing Congress to reduce next > year's proposed funding for the Justice > Department's antitrust division, the giant software > company's accuser in a storied court battle. > > Microsoft representatives have urged House and > Senate members to cut President Clinton's > proposed funding for the division by about $9 > million this year. And nonprofit organizations that > receive financial support from the company have > also urged key congressional appropriators to limit > spending for the division when they begin their final > negotiations on the Justice Department budget, > possibly as early as Monday. > > The nonprofit groups made their request in a letter > last month after an all-expenses-paid trip to > Microsoft headquarters in Redmond, Wash., where > they were entertained and briefed on an array of > issues facing the company. > > Microsoft's latest efforts on Capitol Hill will have > little or no impact on the department's antitrust case > against the software giant, and for that reason they > seem somewhat unusual. While companies regularly > ask lawmakers to block federal agencies from > implementing specific policies, it is more uncommon > to seek an across-the-board cut in a department's > budget, especially in the middle of a major court > battle. > > But company officials said they want to send a > strong message to the antitrust division. ``It's no > secret we really have some serious concerns about > some of the Department of Justice's conduct during > the course of this litigation,'' said Jack Krumholtz, > director of federal government affairs for Microsoft. > > Krumholtz cited recent news reports that Justice > officials encouraged foreign governments to file suit > against Microsoft. Assistant Attorney General Joel > Klein has declared that those reports are false. > > The Clinton administration is seeking $114.3 million > to cover the salaries of 360 attorneys now in the > antitrust division and to fund the hiring of about 18 > more legal staff members. That would be an > increase of about 16 percent over the previous > budget. While Senate appropriators have proposed > a budget of $112.3 million, the House figure is only > $105.2 million > > --and the Senate has come under pressure to give > way to the House. Administration officials said the > higher figure is urgently needed to cope with a sharp > increase in corporate merger activity and to > investigate criminal price-fixing. > > Support for the antitrust division's work remains > strong in Congress. House Judiciary Committee > Chairman Henry Hyde, R-Ill., called the division > ``one of the best-run departments in the > government.'' Wisconsin Sen. Herb Kohl, the top > Democrat on the Judiciary Committee's antitrust > subcommittee, said ``it would set (a) terrible > precedent to alter the division's budget based on > one case alone.'' > > But Sen. Slade Gorton, R-Wash., whose campaign > has received about $51,000 from Microsoft or its > employees since 1997, has been an outspoken > supporter of a cut in the antitrust budget. > > Such an action would ``express total dissatisfaction > with the way Justice is handling the case against > Microsoft,'' said a spokeswoman for Gorton. She > added that Gorton, a senior member of the Senate > Appropriations Committee, is ``pretty confident he > will be able to get (the Senate) number lowered > closer to the House number.'' > > Microsoft has been sharply increasing its lobbying, > political donations and support of a network of > ``think tanks'' to counter the political and lobbying > activities of its adversaries. > > Last month, a dozen handpicked representatives of > influential Washington-based policy organizations > traveled to Redmond for three days of briefings. > Groups represented included Citizens for a Sound > Economy, the National Taxpayers Union and > Americans for Tax Reform, whose president, > Grover Norquist, received $40,000 in lobbying > payments from Microsoft in the last six months of > 1998. > > Two days after returning from the trip, the three > organizations and three others sent a letter to House > appropriators urging that funding for the division be > held to the lower House level. > > 1999 San Francisco Chronicle Page A2 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 16 02:45:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14344 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA08399 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08391 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.201.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.201]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13191; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3807EDFD.4F4D17EE@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:16:14 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic, Soil Nutrients, Mineralization, malnutrition, part 1 References: <224CC071F9F@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3229 Price's book is being kept in print just because it so very clearly shows what diet does. Klaus Wiegand wrote: > Food Processing and Malnutrition > The Economic Destruction of The Food Chain > By John Coleman > > From 1811 to 1816 groups of English artisans known as Luddites > rallied against the machinery of the industrial revolution. The > advent of intensive mechanisation brought not only the end of > skilled craft labour, but ultimately set in motion the > widespread malnutrition of the westernised worlds. > > > In 1898 the first edition of Peter Kropotkin's Fields, Factories > And Workshops Tomorrow was published. In it he says: > > "The necessary machinery was created, and the British > production of manufactured goods went on at a gigantic > pace. In the course of less than seventy years- from 1810 > to 1878- the output of coal grew from 10 to 133,000,000 > tons; the imports of raw materials rose from 30 to > 380,000,000 tons; and the exports of manufactured goods > from 46 to 200,000,000 pounds. The tonnage of the > commercial fleet was nearly trebled. Fifteen thousand > miles of railways were build." > > With the move of rural peoples into the factories, and the > cities that grew out of them, the demand came for these > populations to be fed from the remaining, and now labour scarce, > farming communities. One particular problem of this new system > was that fresh wholefoods do not keep for more than a few days > without serious spoiling. The only economic solution was the > industrialisation of food production, to replace the loss of > labour, and rationalising the food supply. The need was to > decrease the bulk of the food materials and improve their shelf > life. It was grains that would remain the staple foods of > industrial society. Grains could be harvested easily, milled > locally and then shipped into the cities as flour. By the time > the factory worker got his "daily bread", most of what little > nutritional value grains possessed had been damaged by oxidation > or heat. The advent of white bread, brought about due to roller > mills, may also have brought about the first cases of polio (see > 'Immunization: The Reality Behind The Myth' by Walene James, for > links between diet and disease and natural immunity). > > The problem of food preservation was solved mainly by either > denaturing foods so much that they no longer supported bacterial > or fungal life, (Heating, refining, extruding, irradiating, > hydrogenating) or by canning or embalming the foods in poisons. > Later improvements on these techniques means that there are some > foods in modern society that simply will not decompose, thus > demonstrating their unsuitability to support life. All of this > was missed in an era where people were keen to reap the benefits > of technology and understood very little, if anything, about > nutrition. So long as enough food was eaten for men and women to > work the factories, all was well. > > The forces of nature are not to be disobeyed without the > severest of consequences, and so it was that the very means that > delivered modern humans from toil against feeding themselves > lead directly to severe physical degeneration. While the old > diseases of serious malnutrition waned, the lesson of feeding > properly had not been fully explored. This situation remains > even today, despite the large amount of money spent on > scientific research people are still clueless as to what > constitutes healthy food. Even worse than not knowing which > foods are healthy, the true destructive danger of refined and > processed foods has not been publicised despite these dangers > being known for over half a century. Another effect of > industrialisation was the creation of a new super rich > capitalist class amongst the masses of impoverished working > classes. The capitalist class depends upon industry for its > survival and is determined to defend it at any costs to > humanity. > > In 1945 a book called Nutrition And Physical Degeneration was > published. The author, Weston A. Price, D.D.S., had studied in > very great detail the effects of industrial foods upon primitive > peoples used to eating their traditional wholefood diets. His > research uncovers the horrifying effects that refined foods such > as flour goods, sugar, candies, canned foods, preserves and > other devitalised foods have on the humans who eat them. As a > dental surgeon he concentrated on tooth decay and deformities of > the skull. Even today, modern citizens, lacking knowledge of > basic human anatomy, are unaware of the degeneration that > continues to destroy health and undermine continued survival. It > has even been though that these degeneration's are a genetic > inheritance, such is the ignorance of the masses that they blame > nature for errors of their own commission. The effects of > malnutrition are far from just facial deformities and include > generally poor development of the skeleton, enfeebled internal > organs and severe mental retardation. Other concerns are > expressed by Dr. Price when he suggest links with malnutrition > and lower IQs, personality disturbances, criminality, > tuberculosis (and general susceptibility to disease), > infertility, difficulties with giving birth and birth defects. > Since nutritional status affects all metabolic processes, it is > a factor in all diseases and human pursuits. > > Making use of a few of Weston Price's images and observations, > it shall be demonstrated that modern man remains grossly > deformed despite and because of inadequate nutritional > education. The 50th edition of Nutrition And Physical > Degeneration has 526 pages, of which only a tiny sample of > Weston Price's work will be presented. Various doctors have > written glowingly of this book: > > "Most of us cannot remember what life was like without > sugar and refined foods without chemicals added. Weston > Price's book drives home that the beginning of many > degenerative diseases started with the introduction of > processed foods. A must for anyone seriously interested in > the effects of foods on health." Robert F. Cathcart, M.D. > > "A powerful teastament to the adverse effects of our modern > diet upon health. As shocking and relevant in its > implications today as when it was first written." Melvyn > R. Werbach, M.D. > > "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration is an incredibly > important classical work. It was a major force in turning > my head around, and it deserves to be in every classic > library on nutrition." Warren M. Levin, M.D. > > Weston Price studied over 14 different peoples of which we shall > look at just three. In most cases the traditional peoples had > fed on any edible things found locally. These range from a > diversity of animal parts to fruits and ancient agricultural > products. Animal organs, yucca roots, water grasses, insects and > many diverse but unrefined foods are eaten. In most cases these > traditional feeding patterns produce sturdy and well formed > populations free of the ravages of degenerative diseases that > plague modern society even today. The eating of uncooked foods > whether of animal or plant origins is significant in all cases, > with cooking predominant in agriculturalised peoples. Of all the > peoples studied, the so called "Eskimos" with their massive > reliance on animal foods had the poorest physical build and > longevity, but still managed to produce stronger bodies than the > average westerner. > > In the book Stone Age Diet by Leon Chaitow, we learn about the > early origins of physical degeneration as a result of > agriculture. He says that tooth decay was rarely found in > Neolithic times before man started farming, but that decay was > commonly found in the teeth of fossils after the start of > agricultural settlements (Robert Coates, 'What is Natural > Diet?', Nutrition and Health, Vol 1, 1982). Chaitow also points > out that until agriculture began some 10 to 12 thousand years > ago, and people for the first time crowded into towns, many > infectious diseases were extremely rare (C. Wells, 'Bones, > Bodies and Diseases', Thames and Hudson, 1964). Tuberculosis is > only known from the late Stone Age and not at all in Paleolithic > times (P. A. Janssems, 'Paleopathology, Diseases and Injuries of > Prehistoric Man', John Baker, 1970) and Malaria is only thought > to have started with the clearing of forests and creation of > pools for mosquitoes to breed in (Robert Coates op. cit.). John > Robson, M.D., of the University of South Carolina suggests that > the abandonment of wild fruits as a dietary component may be > responsible for many of the present day problems of modern man > (John Robson, 'Journal of Human Nutrition', February 1978). The > idea that primitive mankind lived under the constant threat of > disease and starvation is a myth created by modern age > technophiles to cloud the issue that malnutrition and disease > are in fact the modern normal. > > Today American middle-class white women with their diets high in > protein and fats give birth to babies that are more unhealthy > than poor immigrant women. (JAMA, December 21, 1994) > > The food industries and the chemical companies that control much > of modern industry seem to have such control over medical > opinion and influence in society, that healthy nutrition, the > most basic requirement of humans, is still spared little thought > today. They exert this power via official bodies such as > agricultural and medical regulatory agencies. This has ensured > that the scientific evidence pointing to the dangers of food > processing and intoxication with dangerous chemicals has been > dampened down to the extent required to maintain public > confidence. Industrial food processors employ huge teams of > scientists, often engaged in research on animals, in order to > demonstrate the safety of their products to regulatory bodies > which ignore the abundant evidence of human degeneration. With > the grain barons able to threaten a national food crisis at > will, their ability to control social policy is potentially very > great. > > In the USA it is illegal to use radical dietary therapy to treat > serious illnesses like cancer. Similar attempts to open such > centres in the UK have also been thwarted by the industrial > medical interests. Apparently eating properly is dangerous > "quackery". In the book Dirty Medicine Martin J. Walker says of > wholefoods in modern diet: > > "By the mid-sixties in America, old ideas about wholefoods > and the high quality nutritional status of vegetables and > fruits were being revitalised by the 'health food' > revolution. Representatives of the chemical and > pharmaceutical industries tried to ensure, however, that > those who believed in the 'health food' concept did not > link concepts of nutrition with those of disease. ... > Today there are two schools of nutrition, the 'old' and > the 'new'. Almost all the 'old school' nutritionists are > linked to the processed food industry and represent vested > interests. Although such people claim to be guided by > science, their theoretical position consists of highly > generalised assumptions. At the centre of these > assumptions is the 'balanced diet'." > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 16 02:50:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14368 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA08454 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.31]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08429 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.244.71.201.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.201]) by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13277; Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3807FF33.ACD1D51D@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:29:39 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic & Soil Nutrients and Mineralization References: <226D62A26DC@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3230 Whoever wrote the words about ions/molecule absorption is partly right, partly wrong. WHY is it that people can't get away from ion absorption? Here is someone smart enough to recognize that plants absorb nutrients AS MOLECULES, and still he gets right back into the old rut, talking about "soluble ions" beng taken up by plants? Why take up both molecules and ions? Plants do NOT take up ions; they take up molecules, like all other living tissue, human/animal. I don't see why it is such a battle to get people to accept this, just because academia has been and is being paid to tell all those lies about ion absorption. Anyone can get to a library and look up the data AND PHOTOS, showing that the plant has taken up even particles, which are collections of molecules, NOT ions !!! Seeing is believing here. No one has ever shown photos of ions being absorbed. Klaus Wiegand wrote: > hello dennis > > >I added the word nutrient back into the title, because I think it > >important to have regard for the manner in which a healthy, > >colloidal soil provides minerals in molecular form to the plant, > >rather than simply as ions of elements. We can look on the ways > >this stuff gets into plants as dumb or smart processes. If you > >put enough soluble ions around a plant root yes, sure, poisonous > >or nutritious, they are likely to be taken up - a dumb process. > >But I suspect that much smarter processes are at work in > >molecular transfers between roots and a healthy environment and > >these are what is critical. > > that's what i do expect, too. it would be a big simplification > (and in fact soil scientists - and also our consultants have the > most problems with single results from different tests) to reduce > soil quality to properties, which can be measured (and even more > problematic: combined to a recommandation) in the lab. some are > known, but quite confuse or nothing more than practically useless > academic ivory tower definitions. i only know the german > expressions, but i'm almost sure, you also heard and know them, > too. > > so what are usual the tests for "fertility" and "activity"? > > a) humus content > b) ion exchange capacity > c) dehydrogenase activity > d) carbon dioxide production > > each of them gives an indication, but everyone has it's problems > > too much of humus will result in cultivation problems, mineral > binding, exchange capacity gives false indication (example: the > down under soils you mentioned or tropical soils with high > aluminium contents, c) and d) give an indication for high > activity, but there the question: is it useful, if the activity > is so high, that the organic matter is depleted and destroyed TOO > fast ? > > so i wonder, why in our 5000 years history of soil cultivation > noone came up with a simple test (i have s.th in mind like the > cress test or an earthworm test, which also have their limits - > they for ex. do not show mineral content), which gives the grower > an indication IN ADVANCE. when you have finished your harvest, > you know better and do not need scientific tests anymore... > > i do not expect a perfect test for every species, but a test, > which will give a ROUGH indication for every larger treatment of > my fields. example: how does liming influence soil "fertility" > on MY special fields ? test should be done with MY soil, not the > GENERAL results. these are known to everyone! is there really > nothing on the horizont?? > > next (as soil "quality" will influence food quality) > > how can we measure food quality ? here i also find it highly > reductionistic to reduce quality to mineral content or vitamins. > enzyme activity, fatty acids, coenzyme-a metabolites or enzyme > inhibitor content might be much more important. we even do not > know most of the components of our food, consequently we do not > know their value! a rude bean has high mineral contents, > nevertheless it is TOXIC to humans!! molded food has the same > mineral content as fresh food ! vitamin usually is even higher > due to the bacteria! does that mean, that we should eat molded > food? certainly not. > > what means fresh ? taste and smell often fail: the more "tasty" a > raspberry, the more toxicants it has! apples with a nice smell > may have much lower vitamin contents. wine with too high copper > contents taste best! protein content is highly useless, because > the biological value depends on the TYPE of protein ("amino acid > value" i.e. folding) and not so much on the total amount. in rat > feeding tests total rye amino acids have shown to be much more > valuable that the same amount of total wheat amino acids. if you > treat leak with E605, you will only find 54 instead of 59 amino > acids in untreated leak. if you fertilize potatoes with rising > amounts of nitrogen, rat feeding tests show a decrease in the > amino acid value (while vitamin c, carotin and overall protein > content rises). is it more useful to breed apples with lower > amounts of vitamins, but which can be well stored and eaten in > winter, when no fresh food is at hand or apples with a lot of > vitamin c, which boost your blood serum level to unknown heights, > but begin to foul almost on the tree? should we breed for high > vitamin contents, if cultivation of these varieties might be a > disaster for the grower due to low resistance? and so on and so > on.... > > and there is even another problem, i see: i know of NO treatment > for a special improvement of fruits, which does not have at least > another setback in another special field. so whatever i do as > farmer, it will also have at least one disadvantage! result: > confusion all around... > > but there is hope: people themself. example: there is a tribe in > southern india, which "knows", what is good for them to eat. once > every year some of them walk to a place more than 100 miles away > from their home. there they collect clay, roll them to pills, > bake them in fire and carry these pills home. at every meal they > eat one or two of these pills. ethnobiologists asked the elder of > them, why they did it. they didn't know, they just told them that > the parents of their parents did so and that they did well.. now > the biologists took home samples of these pills and analysed > them. result: this clay corresponds to the IDEAL ultramodern > recommandations for mineral uptake and they told us, that this > "primitive" tribe shows the ideal behavior for mineral > supplementation. i would say it the other way round. modern > scientists proved nothing more, than what these "primitives" knew > long before.. other "primitive" societies are also quite used to > eat pure soil from time to time, they are used to eat their > vegetables often unwashed with all the soil bacteria on them (and > thus with the b-vitamins of these bacteria). eat afaik the > aborigines are also in the habit of eating soil. when indian > people moved to the usa, they soon developed several illnesses, > which are known to be based on food deficiencies. when some of > them moved back to india, the illnesses disappeared. researchers > found, that american food is washed and with that washing soil > and bacteria are removed. they added soil to the food -> the > illnesses disappeared. > > i sure, everyone here has an almost same experience (so this is > not restricted to cows or goats): suddenly you develop an immense > desire for a special (and maybe unusual or even strange) kind of > food. after sport you have a desire for salty food, when ill, you > dislike meat and so on. consequence: people have something like > an inner warning system, what is lacking and they try to get out > of their deficiency. unfortunately this system is beginning to > disappear in modern society. > > > Szent-Gyorgi: > > >"One particle, plus one particle, put together at random, are > >two particles, 1+1=2; the system is additive. But if two > >particles are put together in a meaningful way then something new > >is born which is more than their sum: 1+1>2. > > exactly. liebig's law: 10 essential minerals out of ten (and one > totally lacking) do not make 10, they just make : ZERO !!! > > in the following mail (a bit long, sorry in advance to those, who > do not like it) i post a text i think highly interesting. > > and this is confirmed by an old (1956) article about the history > of "soil and nutrition" by prof. albrecht at the "department of > soil", college of agricult., u. of missouri, columbia/mo, who > showed, that yields began to decrease in missouri in the 30ies > down to an uneconomic level. result: farmers imported new fruits, > which showed higher yields, but with lower nutritional > value. the plants had higher carbohydrates than before, but > lower contents of protein with less amino acids. corn breeding > resulted in more bushels per acre, but 30% less proteins!!! that > has changed today, but still modern varieties lack some amino > acids, the old varieties had. (source: 8. sonderheft > Landwirtschaftliche forschung, pflanzenqualitt - > nahrungsgrundlage,j.d. sauerlnder verlag, frankfurt) > > same with glucosinolates, which were bred out in rape. today > medical literature shows, that exactly these ingredients, which > restrict the amount of rape seed in animal feed, are highly > effective heart protectants, important for the coronary system > and pass over to meat and milk.. > > so what the hell is food quality? (in the end we certainly are > not interested in soil quality, but in FOOD quality, which is > nothing more than the result of soil quality...) > > we're just working on a test with photon emissions. first results > show a correlation between feeding tests and photons. these > photons are mostly the result of total energy received by the > sun. you doubt ? me too, but nevertheless it's worth a try. btw: > stanford has its own "bio-photon lab", which just does the same > tests... but what might be the correlation between photons and > nutritional value ?????? > > klaus > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 16 04:22:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14707 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 04:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA08929 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:53:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08916 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14612 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id DAA26025 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:51:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:51:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: advice/help on starting a list? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3231 Maybe someone here is interested in helping out with this request. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:57:50 -0500 From: Jeff Hall To: london@metalab.unc.edu Subject: advice/help on starting a list? Hello, I'm an alumni of Heenah Mahyah student farm at Iowa State, and was wondering if you'd have any advice or be willing to help start a list for college organic student farms. There are probably nearly 20 now, and I think they would greatly benefit from talking more to each other. Thanks, Jeff Hall To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 16 22:21:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04430 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05631 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:06:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05619 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:06:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eskimo.com (jfawcett@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA07661; Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38092F6E.AF1B1758@eskimo.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:07:42 -0700 From: John Fawcett-Long X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet CC: Erika Schreder Subject: Update on Toxic Waste in Fertilizer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3232 Following is an update on the issue of toxic waste in fertilizer, specifically related to organics. If you're interested in more information about the issue in general, please contact Erika Schreder at the address below. When it was first discovered that toxic waste is in fertilizer, there was a lot of confusion about whether it was also in "organic-approved" fertilizers, and if so, how many of them. We've been working with our state program on this and are glad to report they've used most of the language we suggested. Following is the relevant section of the rule that the Washington State Department of Agriculture (Certification Program) has now adopted to prevent fertilizers containing toxic waste from being used on organic farms. I'd be happy to put you in touch with the program manager if you want to do this in your state. (a) All fertilizers, organic waste derived materials, compost, animal manures and soil amendments must meet standards for allowable levels of nonnutritive substances under chapter 15.54 RCW. Washington application rates shall be used to ensure that the maximum acceptable cumulative metal additions to soil are not exceeded; and (b) All organic waste derived materials, compost and animal manures must consist of acceptable feedstocks. Acceptable feedstocks include materials approved under WAC 16-154-070. Prohibited feedstocks include mixed municipal solid waste, sewage sludge, biosolids, glossy paper, recycled gypsum, dangerous waste, special waste, waste or by-product from processes that create organochlorines, cement kilns, secondary steel mills, waste categorically excluded from the dangerous waste regulations and other materials prohibited under this chapter. Applications for registering organic waste derived materials, composts and animal manures must include an inspection of the facility. Inspections of facilities entail an examination of the feedstocks and may entail an examination of any other information neemed necessary to the requirements of chapter 15.86 RCW and this chapter. (c) The material does not contain ingredients that are prohibited under chapter 16-154 WAC. (d) The ingredients are approved under chapter 16-154 WAC; or the ingredients are naturally derived, except for those naturally derived materials prohibited under chapter 16-154 WAC; or the ingredients appear on the EPA's List 4A or 4B of Inert Pesticide Ingredients; or the ingredients meet the following conditions: (iv) Would not be harmful to human health or the environment; (v) Are necessary to the production of organic products; and (vi) Are consistent with organic principles. Erika Schreder Director, Pesticide Reform Project Washington Toxics Coalition 4649 Sunnyside Ave. N, Suite 540-East Seattle, WA 98103 (206)632-1545 ext 19 phone (206)632-8661 FAX http://www.watoxics.org **************** The Washington Toxics Coalition (WTC) is a non-profit organization dedicated to protecting public health and preventing pollution in industry, agriculture, and the home. WTC's work is supported in part by dues from our members. If you are not already a member, please consider joining! Our dues are $25 per year, $15 limited income. Members receive our quarterly newsletter "Alternatives" as well as periodic action alerts. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 08:44:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07462 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12262 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12187 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from the-network-asy-71.rutgers.edu (the-network-asy-71.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.71]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA16467; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:17:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: the-network-asy-71.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.71] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <3809E528.48AF@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:03:04 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, Organic Gardening List Subject: Mulch in the Sahel? Peace Corps volunteer requests info and advice. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3233 A friend in the Peace Corps in central Africa writes me, says he is trying to research mulching techniques and how they may be useful in the sahel region. The peace corps books don't really seem to mention mulch and he wants to add it to the manuals. I'm guessing that some of you have been there. If anyone has knowledge or suggestions, please send them along and it will be much appreciated! many thanks, Loren Muldowney ---------------------------------------------------- The conditions are as follows: Materials available locally: Shrubs, many from the mint family, some grasses, mango leaves in abundance, several varieties of acacia, and cassia, neem trees, eucalyptus trees, sesbanias, peanuts (plants and shells), corn stalks, coos stalks, rice plants, and sawdust (lumber mill about 6 miles away Seasonality and rainfall regime: Two seasons, wet and dry. The wet season is pretty much finished and it will probably not rain again for about 6 months. Temperatures range from 80-100+, and there is a strong Harmattan wind that blows in Water sources: Wells, about 40ft deep, and sometimes closed with a pump, sometimes open. irrigation is done by hand, normally Main crops grown: Mostly coos, and rice, with some corn. Right now, they are no longer working the farms, have stored their coos, and are working on establishing gardens where they will plant tomatoes, okra, hot pepper, eggplant, bitter tomatoes, lettuce, cucumber, watermelon, and onions. Volunteer is hoping to also push carrots, sweet pepper, and maybe even garlic, any reason not to? Livestock: Cows, sheep, and (highly destructive) goats. Some families have chickens. All animals, except cows, are free range and go "wherever the hell they please" Serious insect problems or poisonous critters around? Termites, grasshoppers, aphids, ants, moths, caterpillars, beetles, scorpions, and puff adders. Cooking fuel sources currently in use? Mostly firewood (from a disappearing forest) and charcoal, with a few well-off people using gas. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 09:35:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07924 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:35:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01296 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:54:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01287 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.55] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:47:11 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 08:57:36 -0400 Subject: Re: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1364 From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991017124711135.AAA740@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.55]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3234 Jeff, this is an excellent idea and I would like to participate. My suggestion is to broaden the scope a bit to include college farms that are not organic, yet use sustainable methods. One possible way to start a list is to go to www.onelist.com which is a huge master list for many different topics. For example, this is the home of pasturepoultry@onelist.com and goatkeepers@onelist.com, and so on. If you or someone you know can serve as moderator I'm sure there will be plenty enough interest to keep a list active. Let me know if I can help further. Andy Lee, Director Good Earth Farm School Buena Vista, Virginia 24416 540-261-8775 > Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 03:51:19 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." > Subject: advice/help on starting a list? (fwd) > > Maybe someone here is interested in helping out with this request. > > - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:57:50 -0500 > From: Jeff Hall > To: london@metalab.unc.edu > Subject: advice/help on starting a list? > > Hello, I'm an alumni of Heenah Mahyah student farm at Iowa State, and was > wondering if you'd have any advice or be willing to help start a list for > college organic student farms. There are probably nearly 20 now, and I > think they would greatly benefit from talking more to each other. Thanks, > > Jeff Hall > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 17:34:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12036 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:34:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01177 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:08:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01090 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16253 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA28856; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm9-34.nidlink.com [216.18.141.89]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA01759; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910172106.OAA01759@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:19:10 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, , From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Important New USDA Report on IPM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3235 The Economic Research Service, USDA has just released the report "Pest Management in U.S. Agriculture." (ERS Handbook No. 717, Jorge Fernandez-Cornejo and Sharon Jans). It is available free via the ERS website, or while copies last, you can call 202-694-5050. This important, interesting report has a wealth of data based on the 1996 ARMS survey. (ARMS stands for Agricultural Resource Management Study, and supplements that year's NASS chemical use surveys). All tables/discussion is in reference to crop year 1996, so it will serve as a good baseline for various analysts and organizations wanting to project the impacts of GMOs. The report's most valuable new information are detailed tables by major crop and state of major pests triggering pesticide use. The table on corn, for example, confirms the point made by a recent post by Ann Clark (her "10 reasons" post). Appendix Table 1.1 lists major corn pests; rootworms account for just over 10% of total surveyed acres treated. European corn borer does not even rate a separate line; it falls into "Other moths and Caterpillars," a category which accounted for 3.2% acres treated. I would guess ECB accounts for perhaps as much as 2.5% of this 3.2%, which would support an estimate of perhaps about 1.75 million acres treated for ECB. Estimates from the corn industry and Monsanto are much, much higher. The report contains several tables on the decision criteria for pesticide applications; who did scouting; sources of information; pounds of major active ingredients applied. These tables do not add much new information, although this one report and its lengthy appendix contains many useful summary tables. It also sets forth the ARMS survey instrument for those working on IPM surveys. The report acknowledges the lack of progress within USDA in developing an acceptable method to estimate IPM adoption, and says no estimates of IPM adoption are offered (or possible) because of the lack of such an agreed upon method. Based on several discussions with USDA IPM leaders during my recent trip to D.C., it is pretty clear that the USDA now accepts that the time has come to let the June 1993 goal/pledge -- "75% IPM by year 2000" -- fade into the woodwork of history. As a practical matter as acknowledged in the ERS report, the USDA still lacks a method to even measure the 1993 IPM baseline, let alone track progress. The ERS report does state (correctly in my judgement) that progress has been made in some biologically based practices and crops -- use of pheromones in traps and for mating disruption, for example, but overall, there is just no evidence of major changes since 1993 in national IPM adoption. Indeed, given that the planting of herbicide tolerant crop varieties almost certainly constitutes a significant step backward along the IPM continuum, it is almost certain that any credible measure of IPM adoption based on total acres will show slippage from 1993 to 1999. As agricultural historians review the history of the Clinton Administration's ag-environmental record from 1992-2000, the failure to make any meaningful progress on IPM will emerge as a major opportunity lost. The reasons are many and mostly fall outside the USDA. Having followed this area of policy closely throughout this period, I think the USDA has made some real strides and would have accomplished more if Congress had appropriated at least some of the increased funding sought every year from FY 1994 through the current budget cycle. In short, the USDA's well-received and widely praised "National IPM Initiative" has never made it past annual requests for budget increases. In each budget cycle, Congress has been warm to IPM but never warm enough, given that there are always many competing needs. There was a clear lack of support from agribusiness constituencies, major farm groups and the pesticide industry on the Hill. This was seen/interpreted by some members and staff as implicit opposition, given that these constituencies are the intended beneficiaries of increased USDA funding for IPM research and education programs. Another factor is in part to blame. The IPM adoption goal/pledge was made in June 1993. Soon thereafter, biotech issues started to surface as the major factors capturing the attention of USDA decision-makers. By 1996, the USDA was far, far more engaged on biotech issues than IPM. Developing better IPM measurement methods, collecting the data needed to apply the methods, and increasing the funding for IPM R+E remained high on everyone's B-List, as one dedicated USDA staff person likes to say. In Washington, B-List issues generally go no-where, which about sums up progress on IPM at the national level since 1993. This is the second time I have seen the lure and political imperatives associated with biotechnology snuff out promising policy initiatives of importance to IPM/pesticide regulation. Following the 1987 release of the NAS "Delaney Report," there was a rare and short-lived consensus across the environmental-grower-pesticide industry communities for reform of pesticide law -- an almost passed 1988 bill would have resolved the underlying issues that finally were dealt with 10 years later by passage of the 1996 Food Quality Protection Act. In the fall of 1987 and throughout 1988, it would have been possible to pass a reform bill, but EPA dropped the ball and missed several deadlines/promises to Congress for bringing forth reform legislation implementing the NAS report's recommendations. All the lights seemed green for a major reform bill in 1988, but a major internal EPA-OSTP-USDA turf fight over biotech regulation was well underway. The process establishing the federal government's biotech policies and regulatory scheme was capturing most of the attention and energies of the senior EPA staff that had to keep the Delaney reform process going. Stepping back from today's public debates and tensions surrounding biotechnology, I suspect that one of the largest social costs of the "biotech era" will be a long list of opportunities -- and options -- lost. Clearly, the just released ERS report on IPM makes a strong case for adding "IPM during the Clinton era" to the list of "opportunities lost." chuck Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 17:42:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12091 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05447 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:19:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05440 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FJR0067BN67P2@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:16:50 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Leaf rust/Canada To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3236 Howdy, all-- Thought this item from ProMED might interest you vector-watchers...as well as the awn-heads among us (is that redundant? :^) . Note once again the relationship between monocropping/single trait resistance and inadvertant selection for virulence. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LEAF RUST, WHEAT - CANADA **************************** A ProMED post Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:52:51 -0400 From: "Marjorie P. Pollack" Source: The Western Producer 7 Oct 1999 [edited] Leaf rust runs rampant in AC Barrie wheat - --------------------------------------------- Rust is eating away at Western Canada's most popular wheat variety. AC Barrie, which accounted for almost one-third of prairie wheat acreage last year, is proving susceptible to several new races of leaf rust on the Prairies. That, combined with the late seeding of this year's crop and ideal climatic conditions, has allowed the disease to take a bite out of wheat growers' yields. "We got a lot of problems with leaf rust on Barrie this year," said Brent McCallum, a plant pathologist at the Winnipeg Research Centre of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada (AAFC). McCallum said a survey conducted by the Research Centre indicates that leaf rust on all wheat, not just Barrie, is the worst in 20 years. Farmers in rust-affected areas are suffering yield losses ranging as high as 20 percent this year. Most years it's around 5 percent. When Barrie was released in 1994, it was fully resistant to leaf rust, thanks to a gene known as LR16 that was bred into a number of Canadian and American varieties, including Columbus and AC Majestic. But the cagey leaf rust pathogen has changed in the intervening years and that gene no longer provides protection. "Now it's able to attack AC Barrie," said McCallum. He indicated that resistance in AC Barrie appeared to be breaking down over the years but because leaf rust is much more prevalent this year, diseased AC Barrie was more obvious. Every year, rust spores are blown north from the United States, eventually infecting fields in southern Manitoba and southeastern Saskatchewan. The spores usually arrive in late May or early June. If moisture conditions are right, the spores germinate and infect the leaf. After about 10 or 12 days, small circular pustules which contain thousands of spores rupture, releasing more spores, which, in turn, infect more plants. Because so much of this year's crop was seeded late, the disease gained a much stronger foothold than usual, establishing itself in the crop during the early stages of development. "Usually our crops are getting fairly mature by the time the epidemic gets very severe, but this year's crop was so late that it hit when it was the most potent," said McCallum. Several other factors conspired to make this a bad year for rust. The amount of rust damage in Canada is driven to a large degree by the situation in the USA. This was the worst rust year in the past 25 years in the upper Midwest, so a lot of spores came into the Canadian Prairies. In addition, high moisture and humidity levels throughout much of southern Manitoba and Saskatchewan provided ideal conditions for infection. Leaf rust can be controlled with fungicide, but AAFC wheat breeder Ron DePauw said at a cost of $20 an acre, it's not cost effective. DePauw, who developed AC Barrie at the Swift Current, Sask., research centre, said farmers concerned about leaf rust may want to consider other varieties that are still resistant to the new races of the disease, including AC Elsa, AC Intrepid, AC Domain and AC Cadillac. Plant breeders and pathologists are working to incorporate new genes into popular varieties like Barrie to upgrade rust resistance. "We knew this was a threat to happen and we've been working on it," said DePauw. "It's something we always have to be building on, to have as much genetic resistance built in as possible." McCallum said that while this year's situation was unusual, it may lead wheat growers in rust-prone areas to reassess what they plant next year. "Farmers have to weigh the overall package ," he said. "It may be poor for leaf rust but it may have other good quality characteristics. They have to make the decision whether they're worried enough about leaf rust to make the switch from AC Barrie to another variety." While acknowledging that many farmers were forced to seed late, DePauw said this year's experience emphasizes the importance of seeding early, especially if planting a variety that is susceptible to new races of rust. [By Adrian Ewins, Saskatoon newsroom] [According to Don Harder, plant pathologist at the Winnipeg Research Centre of AAFC, the new race of leaf rust has been present for about 3 years, and has affected crops of AC Barrie (and others containing the LR16 gene) quite severely in North Dakota for the last two years. It is most likely that virulence against LR16 has been present in existing populations of the fungus and has been selected for by the widespread cultivation of this popular cultivar. Unlike the stem rust fungus, the leaf rust pathogen does not have an alternate sexual host in Canada, which makes the origin of "new" races a puzzle. AC Barrie appears to be on the way out, but there are other cultivars that are highly resistant, and new ones are continually being developed. But AC Barrie will likely retain its popularity in the non-rust areas of the Prairies for some time yet. It is in the rust area that it will be replaced the soonest. - Mod.DH] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The bigger the mix, the better the stew. --John Pounder To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 17:45:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12134 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05438 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:19:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05430 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:19:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FJR0067BN67P2@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:14:25 -0700 From: Misha Subject: College farm list/OneList.com In-reply-to: <19991017124711135.AAA740%ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.55]> To: SANET-mg Cc: JRHALL@gwgate.lib.iastate.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" References: <19991017124711135.AAA740%ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.55]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3237 Howdy, all-- Andy Lee wrote in response to Larry London's pass-along of Jeff Hall's request for information on how to start an e-mail list server for people interested or participating in college farms: >Jeff, this is an excellent idea and I would like to participate. My >suggestion is to broaden the scope a bit to include college farms that are >not organic, yet use sustainable methods. One possible way to start a list >is to go to www.onelist.com which is a huge master list for many different >topics. For example, this is the home of pasturepoultry@onelist.com and >goatkeepers@onelist.com, and so on. If you or someone you know can serve as >moderator I'm sure there will be plenty enough interest to keep a list >active. Let me know if I can help further. I wanted to issue a word of warning to Andy and others. Be very careful with organizations like ONElist.com, and make sure you know what you're getting yourself--and your potential subscribers--into. There are no free lunches...nor free list servers. Organizations like ONElist.com are basically commercial Internet enterprises that provide basic e-mail, list server, or other capacities in return for studying the Internet usage habits of their subscribers, the better to figure out what kind of advertising, at what rate, to cultivate on their sites. In order for you to use their "free" Internet service, you will be shown many advertisements for various goods and services that the advertisers tailor to get you to buy stuff. It's a form of commercialization where they reassure you that they're protecting your privacy by NOT releasing individual information about you, only "demographic" or "aggregate" information. However, your surfing and buying habits, in the aggregate, are much more valuable to potential advertisers. What they want is your attention, because they know that, on average, once the have the attention, for 3-5 seconds, of a given number of people in a certain demographic, they'll make X dollars in sales. They also get to plant the seeds of certain kinds of consumerism--awareness of trends, of products, of needs you never knew you had till the advertisers told you, etc. So, in effect, organizations like ONElist are basically market research firms, who use your Internet activity to sell information about you and others to advertisers. They don't even have to go out and collect the data anymore; they sit back and watch you surf. Here, for example, is a statement from ONElist.com's "Privacy Policy": "4.ONElist uses cookies to measure the effectiveness of banner advertising and analyze site activity. "A cookie is a text file that sits on your hard drive. Cookies are used to store and retrieve information on the client side of a computer connection. Cookies, by themselves, cannot be used to find out the identity of any member. You have the option to eject the cookie, but if you do so you won't have access to private areas of the site (i.e. subscribing or posting messages to a community). "Cookies help us determine what content members view, how much time they spend on the site, and what services members use. The information is collected an analyzed in aggregated form so that the identity of any member remains private. "5. Demographic information will be used only to provide better, more targeted advertising to our members. "This information will be shared, only in aggregate form, with only select 3rd parties. ONElist will never release any individual's information to 3rd parties unless subpoenaed or ordered by court of law." So, in return for their hosting a list server, they use your surfing information to figure out how to make more money by selling targeted ad space to advertisers. While claiming that they're providing YOU with "better, more targeted advertising." See #5, above. What chutzpah; I mean, the last thing on this earth that I want is better advertising. If they were promising me a Sox/Mets World Series, I might be intrigued...but otherwise... Anyway, this concerns me because enterprises like sustainable agriculture are not--as the /New Farm/ learned the hard way--primarily commercial or consumptive ones. We're about something that is, in effect, distinctly anti- or non-commercial. So one could argue that we could use ONElist with impunity, and say to ourselves, well, heck, we're not buying much of anything anyhow, so they're not making money off of us, nyeah. My take is a little different. No matter what I choose to buy, advertisers are in my face. The emerging commodity of importance in the mass-marketing economy is YOUR ATTENTION. One of the most important aspects of advertising and public relations these days is not what you buy, but what you're aware of. The engineering of consciousness. For example, water purifier, electrical generator, and bunker-food companies have always tried to make money off of people by scaring them with various potential catastrophes. But it wasn't till a group of very savvy Internet consultants engineered the Y2K scare--and wormed it into everyone's consciousness--that it generated a mass of commercial activity. That is, folks buying their Y2K rations. Or look at the engineering of consciousness that has gone into making people think they need Suburban Assault Vehicles--"safety," for instance. I won't even go into that. My view is that if advertisers want my attention, let them pay me for it. I prefer not to surrender my consciousness for free. And if they or market research firms want more information about me, let them pay me for that, too. After all, they all are so gung-ho about the "free market" and the "information economy," and making us consumers pay for everything, let them get used to paying consumers, rather than the other way around for what we've got that they want: attention and dollars. Fine, gringos--you've figured out what you need? We're happy to sell it to you at the going market rate. Have a nice economy!!! :^) This is the reason that I have the "cookies" feature on my Web browser turned off at all times. When I run across a Web site that absolutely requires me to use that feature, I either decide I don't need the information, heh, and notify the Webmeister that I've removed their site from my bookmarks and won't be accessing it or linking to it, ever. Or I create a phony user profile in Netscape, get the information I need, then get out of there, and destroy the user profile. When I was on campus at UW, there were a few computers set up with cookies enabled, and I'd get my information from those. They were cooperatively used computers, you see, so that any information that came from their IP (unique Internet identification number) address was an aggregate of various people around the office. You want aggregate info? You got it. :^> It's a small form of resistance. But there you have it. If you choose to use services like ONElist, that's up to you. I would say, however, that if you create a list for these services to host, you're morally and ethically obligated to let your subscribers know that in return for their ability to use a particular information service, which appears free, they're giving away crucial market research information to who-knows-who. This is why my ongoing advice to sustag and organic ag folks who want to create information services is for them to go through organizations that have not commercialized their Internet info flows or their users' activities in this way. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Maybe at night in the stable, the horses stand around asking each other, "What the hell does 'giddyap' mean?" --Dave Barry To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 21:10:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13514 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:10:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25731 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:44:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25681 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.114] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:38:02 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:45:10 -0400 Subject: internet advertising From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991018003802525.AAC657@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.114]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3238 > > In order for you to use their "free" Internet service, you will be > shown many advertisements for various goods and services that the > advertisers tailor to get you to buy stuff Come on Misha, I've been on onelist for months and have yet to read an advertisement. There is a very small one at the top of the page, and just below it is the index for today's topics. I don't have to read advertisements, just as I don't read billboards. Don't blast me because you are distracted by advertisements. I think advertising is great, that's how I sell my farm products. And, by the way, can't you keep your memorandums a bit shorter? I don't have time or interest to read all your personal opinions. Respectfully, Andy Lee To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 22:58:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14325 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28163 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:36:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28006 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:36:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chris (d11-ds0-cra.alphalink.com.au [202.161.116.11]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA13452 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:34:21 +1000 Message-ID: <380A8DDE.4468@alphalink.com.au> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:32:54 +0930 From: Chris Alenson Organization: Organic Advisory Service X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Sustainabilty in India Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3239 I have a request from a student who is travelling to India for 8 weeks and would like to visit if possible sites/research, etc that may be involved in sustainable agricultural projects. Any contacts or addresses would be appreciated. Thanks, Chris Alenson Organic Advisory Service To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 23:19:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14698 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08127 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:55:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail2.real.on.ca (mail2.real.on.ca [209.167.186.129]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08039 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:55:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from real.on.ca (pppD13.mco.net [209.167.186.33]) by mail2.real.on.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA21877 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380A8B87.11C7518C@real.on.ca> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:52:55 -0400 From: Gary Elliott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Onelist-Y2K References: <19991017124711135.AAA740%ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.55]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3240 Misha wrote: > ....My take is a little different. No matter what I choose to buy, > advertisers are in my face. The emerging commodity of importance in > the mass-marketing economy is YOUR ATTENTION. One of the most > important aspects of advertising and public relations these days is > not what you buy, but what you're aware of. The engineering of > consciousness. > > For example, water purifier, electrical generator, and bunker-food > companies have always tried to make money off of people by scaring > them with various potential catastrophes. But it wasn't till a group > of very savvy Internet consultants engineered the Y2K scare--and > wormed it into everyone's consciousness--that it generated a mass of > commercial activity. That is, folks buying their Y2K rations.... I always enjoy reading Misha's acerbic take on the supposed realities of modern life, but her take on y2k as a manufactured problem created by some "Internet consultants" has me shaking my head. The computers that are the infrastructure of our modern civilization were built with a design flaw. Companies and governments around the world are spending billions to correct the problems. And you say they all were convinced by some Internet consultants? Politely put, Misha, this is nonsense. I will quote from the US Senate Year 2000 report issued in September: "...the likelihood of disruption in oil imports is high due to the lack of preparedness in key oil producing countries..." "Several countries of strategic and economic importance to the U.S. are severely behind in Y2K remediation efforts..." "The committee remains concerned about the hundreds of different types of electrical biomedical devices used by all healthier providers... the difficulty in testing and limited resources available for replacement of devices at some institutions contributes to the Committee's concern and raises serious patient safety questions..." I could go on. This is from your Senate. Y2k is real. Ask the next person you meet the year of car they own. Invariably, they will say " a 93", or "an 88". We thought in two digits. And we built everything with that way of thinking. Think "supply chain breakdown". Our systems have a fault tolerance level built into them. This tolerance level is about to be sorely tested. I am afraid we will not like the results. The problem is being fixed. Unfortunately, we started too late. The scenario went like this: In 1995 the CIO for a large company sheepishly went in to see the CEO to try to explain the problem. He or she was rather sheepish in explaining it, not wanting to appear to be a complete idiot, for allowing it to happen. The CEO always thought of the IT people as a necessary evil, modern day mechanics required to implement and run all those magical computer things that allow him to look good and perform. A technological servant, so to speak. The CEO heard what the CIO said and thought, "Okay, they want a lot of money to fix something that is running fine right now. What is this going to do to my profitability and my stock options? I guess we can wait a little bit longer, besides, in 2 years I can cash out and move on to something else. Let's let the next guy fix it." Multiply this many times. This is why we will be late. In 1998 the mantra from companies was to have Y2K remediation done by end of 1998, leaving a full year for testing. Well that got delayed by 99% of companies and governments to March 31,1999. Guess what, they delayed it again. And again. What is happening is that the testing phase is being shortened and shortened.Testing is between 40% and 70% of a Y2K project. We are a civilization heading like lemmings toward the end of the year with our collective fingers crossed. What about the main stream media? Well, they long ago figured out that we citizens only like two kinds of "news", one, news that is about the misfortune of someone else, and two, news that is about our own good fortune. They give us very little else. We have become a civilization too wrapped up in what entertains us, and totally resistant to what can inform us. Americans have this silly habit of thinking the world is them. It is not. You are very dependent on trade with the rest of the world, Jesse Helms notwithstanding. You just do not want to hear about it. I have to smile when the financial wizards explain that the U.S. is way ahead of other countries on Y2K, so the U.S. will not have any problems. You will. My prediction: The coming breakdowns and disruptions around the world over the next two years will be the most significant event we have ever experienced in our collective lives. I have always been amazed by the sustainable ag people's disinterest in Y2K. See it for what it is! We built an unsustainable computer infrastructure. It is a prime example of what we all preach about what is happening in agriculture. My emotions tell me I must be wrong about Y2K. Logic tells me I should be right. I have spent untold hours reading, researching, and cultivating contacts in the know around the world about Y2K. It is not about hype, it is about the Bill Gates and IBM types rushing around trying to dominate each other, and never stopping to look at a calendar and think. Gary Elliott Sylvan Organic Farm Parkhill, Ontario > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 23:40:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14877 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21963 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:23:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21955 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d16-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.16]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA19109; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:21:21 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , Subject: RE: Organic & Soil Nutrients and Mineralization Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:28:20 +1000 Message-ID: <000201bf1918$d33d9080$103325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <226D62A26DC@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3241 Klaus I enjoyed your thought-provoking piece but the long two part argument (from John Coleman?) seemed to finish up running back to simplicities. Almost like an undergraduate exam essay, where the student, with 10 seconds to go, and enough cards dumped on the table, finishes quickly by saying "so eat less meat". When looking at the terrible impacts on the health of indigenous peoples, and there are a number of references to the South Pacific (there are no 'Great Barrier Reef people' but I suspect that the reference is to a particular former mission community of Australian aboriginal people) I think regard has to be had for the undermining of health not just by diet but by efforts at their overall cultural destruction, loss of land, loss of lifestyle, loss of identity. The condensed milk and canned fish and other store goods that seem to have contributed to health decline in the South Pacific need to be seen in broader context. I think there are problems associated with the balance of the 'meat' we eat, in its modern focus on muscle meat, and the general exclusion of offal from food offered in stores, but I would not try to run on official figures. According to the WHO, the average person can survive on about 40 grams of good protein per day, but I understand, second hand, can't cite source, that according to MIT graduate students, they all lost body protein when they tested a diet of 40 grams. Protein deficiency is probably the most common main cause of hypothyroidism, especially when combined with use of the thyroid antagonistic foods, cabbage-broccoli, beans, unsaturated oils. (One of the many ways in which those oils are antithyroid is that they neatly block protein digestion.) So to look at an amount of protein on a kitchen scale and say 'that's the right amount' is likely to fall short in a normal diet with foods in combination. To argue against gelatin and sugar seems a bit naive, especially on the basis of saying that they are no good because they only contain sugar and gelatin. Is oxygen bad because it only contains oxygen? Gelatin and sugar, in modest amounts, are wonderfully supportive for invalids, for good biological reasons. Arguments in favour of starches rather than simple sugars are simplistic, ignoring the extent to which the former can create problems of bacterial endotoxin in the gut, etc. To the extent that the paper argues for fruit and against grain, this seems good, but the muddle arises with the tut tut over sugar. Oranges, an exemplary food, if not drunk from a bottle containing preservatives, contain the simplest of sugars. Being 'organic' doesn't say much about nutrition, of course, anyway. You can grow tobacco, opium and coca organically, just like canola, foxgloves, oleander... The issue of junk foods, with all their additives, is something else again. There was mention of the impact of preservatives on the environment. Anecdotal evidence from the funeral industry in this country is that bodies just don't rot like they used to. If oxidation is blocked in dead people, we should presume that healthy electron transfer processes. The New Scientist contained an article early in 1998 on the swamp creating effect of sulphur dioxide on the gut. Even some mineral waters are marketed here with sulphur dioxide added, no doubt to save money on batch checking for contamination. So, if we are going to talk about the merits of foods kids like to eat, we have to look at the fine print too. I commend Ray Peat's paper on Junk Foods, available at http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/ , from which I append an extract. Dennis ============= "Years ago, I noticed that Oregon was one of the few states that still had real whipping cream and cottage cheese without additives, so I have been trustingly using cream in my coffee every day. Last week, I noticed that my cream listed carrageenan in its ingredients. Over the years, I have avoided carrageenan-containing foods such as apple cider, hot dogs, most ice creams and prepared sauces and jellies, because they caused me to have serious allergic symptoms. Carrageenan has been found to cause colitis and anaphylaxis in humans, but it is often present in baby "formulas" and a wide range of milk products, with the result that many people have come to believe that it was the milk-product that was responsible for their allergic symptoms. Because the regulators claim that it is a safe natural substance, it is very likely that it sometimes appears in foods that don't list it on the label, for example when it is part of another ingredient. In the 1940s, carrageenan, a polysaccharide made from a type of seaweed, was recognized as a dangerous allergen. Since then it has become a standard laboratory material to use to produce inflammatory tumors (granulomas), immunodeficiency, arthritis, and other inflammations. It has also become an increasingly common material in the food industry. Articles are often written to praise its usefulness and to claim that it doesn't produce cancer in healthy animals. Its presence in food, like that of the polyester imitation fat, microcrystalline cellulose, and many other polymers used to stabilize emulsions or to increase smoothness, is often justified by the doctrine that these molecules are too large to be absorbed. There are two points that are deliberately ignored by the food-safety regulators, 1) these materials can interact dangerously with intestinal bacteria, and 2) they can be absorbed, in the process called "persorption." "The sulfites (sodium bisulfite, potassium metabisulfite, etc.) have been used as preservatives in foods and drugs for a long time, even though they were known to cause intense allergic reactions in some people. Fresh vegetables and fish, dried fruits, ham and other preserved meats, hominy, pickles, canned vegetables and juices, and wines were commonly treated with large amounts of the sulfites to prevent darkening and the development of unpleasant odors. People with asthma were known to be more sensitive than other people, but the sulfites could cause a fatal asthma-like attack even in someone who had never had asthma. Even when this was known, drugs used to treat asthma were preserved with sulfites. Was the information just slow to reach the people who made the products? No, the manufacturers knew about the deadly nature of their products, but they kept on selling them. The FDA didn't answer letters on the subject, and medical magazines such as J.A.M.A. declined to publish even brief letters seriously discussing the issue. Obviously, since many people died from what the drug companies called "paradoxical bronchoconstriction" when they used the products, the drug companies had to be protected from lawsuits, and the medical magazines and the government regulators did that through the control of information. I think a similar situation exists now in relation to the effects of carrageenan." To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 17 23:40:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14881 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21913 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:23:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21873 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d16-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.16]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA19092; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:21:13 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: , Subject: RE: Mulch in the Sahel? Peace Corps volunteer requests info and advice. Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:28:13 +1000 Message-ID: <000101bf1918$cf2e70e0$103325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3809E528.48AF@envsci.rutgers.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3242 Loren I think it would be useful for such workers to have a copy of Bill Mollison's 'Permaculture, A Designer's Manual' Tagari Publications, Tyalgum, Australia 1988, (US sources would be known to US permaculture groups), which has a whole section on dryland strategies. The appropriate strategy is going to be local and must be politically feasible. Mollison writes, p 315, that "Gardeners [in drylands] have had good results from shredded bark, manure and leaf nutrients as mulch, with compost below this, and some sulphur added if pH is high." But I expect a major issue is source of mulching material, and that requires attention to preservation of plants, especially 'woody weed' species. Desert plants are usually prolific seeders and local species are of course best adapted to local conditions. Often pioneer species are good soil improvers, acacias are nitrogen fixing, and also lower pH, but some desert species will tend not so such to improve soils as to have individual survival strategies, by seed proliferation, aestivation [opposite of hibernation] etc; plants adapted to holding water make good live fodder, if there is a sensible plant-animal balance. Whatever, being able to exclude animals, especially goats, from any significant area for a couple of years, or a couple of rains, would seem a critical start point for developing biomass for soil, compost or mulch. Living plants, rather than dead material, may need to be the first priority, and then it may be better to try to grow within such an environment rather than disturb it with cultivation. The goat/livestock question is, I would have thought, critical. Especially if it tangles with a balance between men's business [herding] and women's business [planting]. But again, I'd recommend the Mollison book as wonderful food for strategic, large enough and ideaful enough to get any Peace Corp worker off to sleep with new ideas at night, and complex enough to need reading several times to get benefit. Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 00:23:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15266 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:23:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA07886 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:48:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07731 for ; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d16-as0-can.alphalink.com.au [203.37.51.16]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA22228 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:47:11 +1000 From: "Argall Family" To: "SANET-mg" Subject: GM potatoes Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:54:12 +1000 Message-ID: <001001bf191c$70389bc0$103325cb@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <380A8B87.11C7518C@real.on.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3243 New Scientist 16 October 99 article beginning: "Arpad Pusztai is finally publishing a paper about his experiments on modified potatoes. But the meaning of his work remains unclear "AT LONG LAST, the research that soured many people's taste for genetically modified food is to be published in a scientific journal. More than a year after Arpad Pusztai claimed in a television interview that eating GM potatoes damaged the health of young rats, a paper describing some of his results will appear this week in The Lancet..." can be found at http://newscientist.com/ns/19991016/newsstory3.html Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 09:59:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19580 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26729 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:10:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26725 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:10:42 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:09:07 -0500 X-ROUTED: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:09:06 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.70] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0803333c ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:08:50 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991018075659.0088f1a0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:56:59 -0500 To: Subject: GM potatoes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3244 Was this the article that the CBS Evening News did a real hatchet job on the other night in the USA? I love it; the preliminary research "had too few test aminals". They had the head of the Biotechnology industry group for balance??? but nothing form the study authors defending the work. The corporate "investment" in the mass media is really paying off now. People seem to forget that Dr. Pusztai was(is?) a supporter of GM food and had done early saftey tests on components used in the GM potatoes. He was as surprised as his industry sponsors when the results showed potential problems but he had the moral courage to say "we need to look into this further". Well we all know now what morals will get you in the industrial world by looking at what happened to Dr. Pusztai. Mike Miller >To: MMiller >From: grargall@alphalink.com.au >Date: 17 Oct 99 23:44:06 -0600 >Subject: GM potatoes > > >New Scientist 16 October 99 article beginning: > >"Arpad Pusztai is finally publishing a paper about his experiments on >modified potatoes. But the meaning of his work remains unclear > >"AT LONG LAST, the research that soured many people's taste for genetically >modified food is to be published in a scientific journal. More than a year >after Arpad Pusztai claimed in a television interview that eating GM >potatoes damaged the health of young rats, a paper describing some of his >results will appear this week in The Lancet..." > >can be found at > >http://newscientist.com/ns/19991016/newsstory3.html > > >Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 10:24:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20144 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08583 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:31:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web1404.mail.yahoo.com (web1404.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA08576 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19991018134530.21010.rocketmail@web1404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.60.23.214] by web1404.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:45:30 PDT Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:45:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen M. Apatow" Subject: Taskforce 2000: Joint Report with Disaster Recovery Company To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3245 October 18, 1999 Contact: Stephen M. Apatow President & Executive Director, Humanitarian Resource Institute Eastern USA: (203) 668-0282 Western USA: (775) 884-4680 Internet: http://www.humanitarian.net Email: sma@humanitarian.net OUT OF 1,000 FIRMS SURVEYED, 84 PERCENT ARE PREPARING FOR POSSIBLE POWER FAILURES, 86% PERCENT FOR LOSS OF TELECOMS LINKS AND 97 PERCENT FOR SYSTEM FAILURES Monday October 18 5:06 AM ET One Third Of UK Firms Already Hit By Y2K -Report http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/19991018/tc/yk_britain_1.html Taskforce 2000, in a joint report with disaster recovery company Adam Associates. For additional information and detailed reports on the Year 2000 Technology Problem visit the: Humanitarian Resource Institute Global Y2K Infrastructure Risks Web Site http://www.humanitarian.net/y2keconomic.html ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 10:43:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20502 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20333 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:07:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20329 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.224.155.161] (216-224-145-166.stk.jps.net [216.224.145.166]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA05711 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:05:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: fullcircle@mail.jps.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19991018003802525.AAC657@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.114]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:12:47 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Marcie Rosenzweig Subject: Re: your delete button Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3246 Dear Andy, Misha hardly needs my coming to her defense, however civility might. One of the things I've enjoyed low these many years has been the vigorous defense of tolerance for diverse views on this list. I happen to be one of those folks who hate spending my resources - time, money, screen space, bandwidth... for ads. If I wish to buy something, I'll research that product on my own. It is particularly irritating when my email address is gleaned from a maillist and ads are sent in the guise of personal mail so I must open it instead of deleting it. As for Misha's posts, I personally find her opinions well thought out, her writing poetic, her purview broadly literate, her humor subtle and ironic, and her contribution to this list invaluble. I suggest, if a writer is not normally pleasing to you, you use your delete button prior to opening their post. Marcie To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 10:49:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20584 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19832 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:04:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19775 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06081 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA22321; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380B297E.F097455A@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:06:54 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: glenn@smallfarms.com, Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: [Fwd: N&O article on hog farm regs (fwd)] References: <380612C9.CD73CB3E@unity.ncsu.edu> <38063F41.236C@smallfarms.com> <38072F58.BDE3C1C8@unity.ncsu.edu> <38078399.7A0@smallfarms.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3247 Glenn wrote: > Hey Russ, > > Thanks, one more time, for explaining who the NC farmers are and the > flood's impact on them. I tend to hear and remember personal stories > and experiences. Your brother's experience is troubling for me. > > You also have me thinking more about contract farmers. I've tended to > dismiss them in the past, but began thinking of their aspirations and > goals. They may simply be resource limited and see contract farming as > an entry level step into a future independent farm...Hum. > > Good luck on the work for the doctorate. In your future work, think: > small farmer, family farmer, community of farmers. > > glenn > Buy from the Farmer > http://www.smallfarms.com I tend to think of contract farmers like the medieval feudal system. The contract farmers are peasants, and the corporations are nobles. The main difference is that contract farmers often own the land (although not always the buildings, and never the pigs. I'm not exactly sure where the technical points lay i.e. the buildings, however.) The main point I was trying to make is that the farmer is completely responsible for waste management and disposal (even though the animals that produce the waste are not his/hers!) Also, regulations have excluded hog farms (all animal production systems, really) as part of the new EPA regulations for Municipal waste management systems (that's what I've been told, anyway). Let me also state, for the record, that I'm not a legislator, lawyer, judge, hog farmer, or corporation, or anything else that might put me in direct contact with these regulations. I'm a student who is interested in changing an environmental problem into an environmental asset. How? Through the use of composted swine waste solids as fertilizer. Swine waste worked very well in the two year project that I worked on as a fertilizer, however, it was uncomposted, was smelly, and required two weeks before planting could occur (because of a flush of ammonia into the soil post-amendment). I've been thinking about this for a while. If the swine waste solids from some of the counties "Down-East" were composted, much of the environmental hazard associated with swine manure could be eliminated. Since many waste systems (i.e. lagoons) were destroyed thanks to Floyd, now would be the best time to institute changes that otherwise would not take place because of the expense of replacing systems. (Many of the systems must be replaced now, therefore, why not put something useful, and possibly create a value-added product from something that is definitely not palatable. If anyone has handled swine manure, you know what I mean.) First, by making a system where swine manure solids can be removed, taken to a central location (either in a community or county) and composted. Next, the compost could be given back to the farmers as fertilizer for their fields, or sold to the public. The greatest expense would be an initial outlay for the waste management facilities (which currently has to be done anyway thanks to Floyd), system management, and fuel for driving the waste to the central location. On site composting (at each hog farm) might be more efficient, but the potential for incorrect composting would be greater. Further, this system could only work in areas with a concentration of animals (such as several counties in Southeastern NC, where there are more pigs than people). I think it could be a viable system. Of course I am an idealist. . . Two and one half years ago at the Emerging Issues Forum (an annual event with different themes each year. The year I went environmental issues were the theme.) I met our governor (Jim Hunt) and spoke with him about my research, and what I've outlined above. He asked me what I thought this would add to the price of each pound of pork. I said that we would pay for it one way or the other. Either through environmental clean-up (i.e. increased taxes) or through higher pork prices. That was before Fran (1996) and Floyd damaged hog lagoons downeast. Alright, I've said enough (maybe too much). . . I'd like to see these systems put in place, but reality will likely not make it happen. . . Russ -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 11:37:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21760 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05011 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:55:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05006 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07197 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-39.csj.net [12.29.22.39]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA06974 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:53:12 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "Sustainable AG list (E-mail)" Subject: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:53:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000401bf1978$85c03780$442dfea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3248 Can someone explain the compositional difference between true free-range chicken eggs and grocery store eggs? One can observe the greater intensity of the orange color, the better flavor and the much thicker shell in the free-range egg, but are they really more nutritious? I came across an article about some small scale farmers getting $2.00 per dozen for unfertilized free range, $4 for fertilized and $6 for green Araucana eggs. I know the $2 price is accurate, but the other two are a shock. I have 35 free-range chickens and 11 ducks prowling 4 wooded/pastured acres, 2 of which are an enclosed rhea pen. (Why 35 chickens? I raise rheas which are very fragile as chicks and didn't expect the chickens all to live. They did. I also wanted to try pastured poultry but never got the pens built and then the kids became animal rights activists.) In the meantime, I have discovered the chickens keep the rhea pasture immaculate by scratching and probably finding food in the manure piles. I have two multi-acre rhea pens. The food consumption per pound of animal in the rhea/chicken pen is about 37% less than the pen with better grazing but just housing rheas and a guard (another topic-that title is disputable) llama. Although conventional wisdom says we should not combine these avian species on the same farm, it appears to have a symbiotic effect. The rheas in the chicken/rhea pen have grown faster and neither chickens nor rheas have feather lice, which are considered ubiquitous in ratites. The noisy ducks seem to be serving as a predator alarm system because this is the first year I have had no loss to predators in that pen. Maybe we just got lucky, but so far this looks like it could be a good sustainable ag model. It didn't take much math to figure out that I could have healthier birds, cleaner pastures, and a source of income from eggs to pay for everyone's feed bill from the free-range chicken eggs. So, other than the knowledge that the eggs are from a natural clean environment and taste better, what other justification is there to support the price? Is there a market and price for edible duck eggs? Donna Fezler GCR Jacksonville, IL http://www.rhealiving.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 11:40:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21818 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05394 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:57:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from olsmail1.att.net.hk (olsmail1.att.net.hk [202.77.253.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05383 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [202.77.162.41] (ppp5-41.att.net.hk [202.77.162.41]) by olsmail1.att.net.hk (8.8.8/AT&T-EasyLink-AP) with ESMTP id WAA27740 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:55:33 +0800 (HKT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: gruno@mail.att.net.hk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201bf1918$d33d9080$103325cb@p2> References: <000201bf1918$d33d9080$103325cb@p2> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:56:07 +0800 To: "SANET-mg" From: Keith Addison Subject: RE: Organic & Soil Nutrients and Mineralization Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3249 Dennis wrote: >When looking at the terrible impacts on the health of indigenous peoples, >and there are a number of references to the South Pacific (there are no >'Great Barrier Reef people' but I suspect that the reference is to a >particular former mission community of Australian aboriginal people) I think >regard has to be had for the undermining of health not just by diet but by >efforts at their overall cultural destruction, loss of land, loss of >lifestyle, loss of identity. The condensed milk and canned fish and other >store goods that seem to have contributed to health decline in the South >Pacific need to be seen in broader context. Not a mission community. Price visited quite a few communities along the east coast, finding both "isolated" (traditional) and "modernised" (exposed to modern foods) communities. He also visited Torres Straits islanders. He was a very careful man! The effects he found were due to the food, not to a wider context. If you can't lay your hands on his book, try the excellent extended review at Steve Solomon's site, which includes lots of Price's photographs: http://www.soilandhealth.org/02healthlibrary/0203longevitycat/020305pp nf/PPNF.HTML >To argue against gelatin and sugar seems a bit naive, especially on the >basis of saying that they are no good because they only contain sugar and >gelatin. Is oxygen bad because it only contains oxygen? Gelatin and sugar, >in modest amounts, are wonderfully supportive for invalids, for good >biological reasons. Arguments in favour of starches rather than simple >sugars are simplistic, ignoring the extent to which the former can create >problems of bacterial endotoxin in the gut, etc. To the extent that the >paper argues for fruit and against grain, this seems good, but the muddle >arises with the tut tut over sugar. There's rather more to it than a tut-tut. See "The Saccharine Disease - Conditions caused by the taking of refined carbohydrates, such as sugar and white flour" by T.L. Cleave, Wright, Bristol, 1974. ISBN 0 7236 0368 5 Like Price, Surgeon-Captain Cleave went there, he doesn't leave much to argue about. Best Keith To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 11:42:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21866 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06538 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:02:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06533 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA21231; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:02:06 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01360; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:03:13 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 18 Oct 99 16:55:52 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 18 Oct 99 16:55:07 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: WILSONDO@phibred.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:54:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: harnessing endophytic and epiphytic relationships Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <2744B3C5530@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3250 hello dale, >I'll bet that under breeding and selection, some of the changes that occur >in crop varieties result from changes in the endophyte. Since most >endophytes are passed through the seed, genetic changes or selection among >strains could masquerade as genetic change in the plant. i just came back from a congress, where they showed a tissue-print immunoplot method for endophytes in festuca. the lecturer made clear, that plants infested with endophytes never show any phenological symptoms.... might only be valid for the small grasses he worked with... >F.moniliforme, for example, is practically an endophyte in corn. >The relationship is highly evolved, and from an evolutionary >perspective, F. moniliforme and related species might be on the >road to becoming full-fledged endophytes. we have a monoculture trial in the 32nd year, corn after corn after corn... and we can only confirm your observations. there never was any REAL strong infestation of fusarium ON the plants. that was amazing, as we know of several larger regions, where corn is grown very intensively. the real problem is not corn after corn, but small grains after corn. 6 or 7 years of corn and then a wheat on this field will result in a DESASTER. in several years though we had problems with the corn cob mixtures from these plots. it wasn't analysed, but my predecessor highly suspected it to be F. oxysporum. problem: BOTH are known to produce mycotoxins (mostly DON) >the Fusaria. My impression from cutting up a lot of corn stalks is that >good corn varieties are able to keep the fungus under control and mostly >confined to the lower few internodes until late in the life cycle of the >plant. how do you understand "good" varieties ? infection resistant ? or might most of the "good" properties even be the major result of resistance ? our experience clearly show, that the grade of fusarium infection is a (highly significant) function of the length of the stalk. the shorter the stalk, the faster the infection and the more intense. so the tendancy to shorter varieties due to better stand and larger (or treatment with ccc) cobs results in higher infection rates. >Maybe seed-transmitted hypovirulent strains exclude more harmful >strains from the cornstalk niche? might very well be. there are significant negative correlations between seed infection level and field emergence, but in our experience the infection level of the cob depended much more on environmental factors (mostly humidity resp. the lack of soil water) and even more on the tillage system (no-till with mulch- seeding had the worst effect on infection in small grains, which followed after corn) than on seed infection rates. would you confirm our observations, that breeders are more and more breeding for industrial usage properties and less and less for agronomical advantages ? and even more: at the expense of agronomical properties ? klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 11:50:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22013 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07432 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:06:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07375 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id KAA06017; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:05:07 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma005510; Mon, 18 Oct 99 10:04:48 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:04:48 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF97@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: GM potatoes Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:04:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3251 Does anyone have a copy of the paper by Puszati that was (will?) be publsihed in Lancet, or know how to get a copy? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 12:43:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22907 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21359 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:53:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21353 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.43.104.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.43.104]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18612; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380B24F1.E467D59C@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:47:29 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic & Soil Nutrients and Mineralization References: <000201bf1918$d33d9080$103325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3252 "Molecules too large to be absorbed" is just another lie added to the pile. Any size molecule can be absorbed, via endocytosis. I have never heard or read of "persorption", but endocytosis is clearly described in the literature. Please enlighten me--about beans and unsaturated oils as being bad for people with thyroid troubles, that I have. I learned long ago that the cabbage family, the coles, are bad for people with thyroid troubles, IF EATEN RAW, because the mustard oils (glucosinolates, isothyocyanates) prevent the ABSORPTION of iodine, so such persons need to eat the coles cooked. Yet cooking is not good either, as raw food is the natural state and best for humans. I end up not eating coles any more. Yet the books and authorities always talk about how good they are, and in winter in California almost all winter veg are coles--with a few carrots sprinkled in. But I want/need to learn how beans can be bad, and also UNsaturated oils. Please and thanks. Yesterday I heard a most informative talk by a highly educated man, about the value of raw foods. His explanations were loaded with biochemistry, altho in terms most people could understand. Almost everyone in the audience was aged. He emphasized that the main value lies in green items--leafy veg. He was against the ingestion of starches, particularly. Yoyo effects on digestion. Condensed milk. Where I grew up in a very primitive country, there were of course no dairies. People way out in the desert (arid land) did have cows and steers, but no one was selling milk. My mother, the kind of person no one would ever defeat, made it a point to get fresh milk for us. She bribed the men who brought it, in 2 pails on a pole balanced on the shoulder, and she always managed to get it. Of course it was sprinkled with much contamination--grass bits, etc., so it was first screened through a well-boiled cloth, then boiled. It also was boiled up every succeeding night, as there was no refrigeration. So it was brownish by the time we finished it. I loved that brown "skin"--caramelized sugar?? But Nestle was there inplenty, and everyone used the canned milk and the condensed milk. We had for breakfast always cooked brown/red rice, with the condensed milk for the sweetener. Canned milk was added to coffee by the adults. Milk always meant canned milk, for all the other missionaries. My mother also, when transferred to the desert (arid country) bribed the men again and had enough milk to make butter--an unheard of feat, where everyone used the canned butter--rancid stuff in small cans like the cans in which tuna fish is canned. I remember, when we lived in town, Ft. Dauphin (now Faradofay), and we had the enormous excitement of a visit from the US Consul (who lived far north in the capital city), my mother made a 3 layer cake with that canned butter. She was determined to make a truly American meal for him--a once in a lifetime visit and extremely important. So it was the cake, masked potatoes and gravy, and stewed meat. The meat was always tough, and usually stew meat, because the tender cuts were always reserved for the local French official. Hey, what started me on this long lingo nobody needs to hear? Oh yes, it was raw food. Well, as my father was a superduper gardener, we always had plenty of raw veg and safe because he planted and cared for it. Water used brought in pails from a mountain stream. Argall Family wrote: > Klaus > > I enjoyed your thought-provoking piece but the long two part argument (from > John Coleman?) seemed to finish up running back to simplicities. Almost like > an undergraduate exam essay, where the student, with 10 seconds to go, and > enough cards dumped on the table, finishes quickly by saying "so eat less > meat". > > When looking at the terrible impacts on the health of indigenous peoples, > and there are a number of references to the South Pacific (there are no > 'Great Barrier Reef people' but I suspect that the reference is to a > particular former mission community of Australian aboriginal people) I think > regard has to be had for the undermining of health not just by diet but by > efforts at their overall cultural destruction, loss of land, loss of > lifestyle, loss of identity. The condensed milk and canned fish and other > store goods that seem to have contributed to health decline in the South > Pacific need to be seen in broader context. > > I think there are problems associated with the balance of the 'meat' we eat, > in its modern focus on muscle meat, and the general exclusion of offal from > food offered in stores, but I would not try to run on official figures. > According to the WHO, the average person can survive on about 40 grams of > good protein per day, but I understand, second hand, can't cite source, that > according to MIT graduate students, they all lost body protein when they > tested a diet of 40 grams. Protein deficiency is probably the most common > main cause of hypothyroidism, especially when combined with use of the > thyroid antagonistic foods, cabbage-broccoli, beans, unsaturated oils. (One > of the many ways in which those oils are antithyroid is that they neatly > block protein digestion.) So to look at an amount of protein on a kitchen > scale and say 'that's the right amount' is likely to fall short in a normal > diet with foods in combination. > > To argue against gelatin and sugar seems a bit naive, especially on the > basis of saying that they are no good because they only contain sugar and > gelatin. Is oxygen bad because it only contains oxygen? Gelatin and sugar, > in modest amounts, are wonderfully supportive for invalids, for good > biological reasons. Arguments in favour of starches rather than simple > sugars are simplistic, ignoring the extent to which the former can create > problems of bacterial endotoxin in the gut, etc. To the extent that the > paper argues for fruit and against grain, this seems good, but the muddle > arises with the tut tut over sugar. Oranges, an exemplary food, if not drunk > from a bottle containing preservatives, contain the simplest of sugars. > > Being 'organic' doesn't say much about nutrition, of course, anyway. You can > grow tobacco, opium and coca organically, just like canola, foxgloves, > oleander... > > The issue of junk foods, with all their additives, is something else again. > There was mention of the impact of preservatives on the environment. > Anecdotal evidence from the funeral industry in this country is that bodies > just don't rot like they used to. If oxidation is blocked in dead people, we > should presume that healthy electron transfer processes. The New Scientist > contained an article early in 1998 on the swamp creating effect of sulphur > dioxide on the gut. Even some mineral waters are marketed here with sulphur > dioxide added, no doubt to save money on batch checking for contamination. > So, if we are going to talk about the merits of foods kids like to eat, we > have to look at the fine print too. > > I commend Ray Peat's paper on Junk Foods, available at > http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/ , from which I append an extract. > > Dennis > ============= > > "Years ago, I noticed that Oregon was one of the few states that still had > real whipping cream and cottage cheese without additives, so I have been > trustingly using cream in my coffee every day. Last week, I noticed that my > cream listed carrageenan in its ingredients. Over the years, I have avoided > carrageenan-containing foods such as apple cider, hot dogs, most ice creams > and prepared sauces and jellies, because they caused me to have serious > allergic symptoms. Carrageenan has been found to cause colitis and > anaphylaxis in humans, but it is often present in baby "formulas" and a wide > range of milk products, with the result that many people have come to > believe that it was the milk-product that was responsible for their allergic > symptoms. Because the regulators claim that it is a safe natural substance, > it is very likely that it sometimes appears in foods that don't list it on > the label, for example when it is part of another ingredient. In the 1940s, > carrageenan, a polysaccharide made from a type of seaweed, was recognized as > a dangerous allergen. Since then it has become a standard laboratory > material to use to produce inflammatory tumors (granulomas), > immunodeficiency, arthritis, and other inflammations. It has also become an > increasingly common material in the food industry. Articles are often > written to praise its usefulness and to claim that it doesn't produce cancer > in healthy animals. Its presence in food, like that of the polyester > imitation fat, microcrystalline cellulose, and many other polymers used to > stabilize emulsions or to increase smoothness, is often justified by the > doctrine that these molecules are too large to be absorbed. There are two > points that are deliberately ignored by the food-safety regulators, 1) these > materials can interact dangerously with intestinal bacteria, and 2) they can > be absorbed, in the process called "persorption." > > "The sulfites (sodium bisulfite, potassium metabisulfite, etc.) have been > used as preservatives in foods and drugs for a long time, even though they > were known to cause intense allergic reactions in some people. Fresh > vegetables and fish, dried fruits, ham and other preserved meats, hominy, > pickles, canned vegetables and juices, and wines were commonly treated with > large amounts of the sulfites to prevent darkening and the development of > unpleasant odors. People with asthma were known to be more sensitive than > other people, but the sulfites could cause a fatal asthma-like attack even > in someone who had never had asthma. Even when this was known, drugs used to > treat asthma were preserved with sulfites. Was the information just slow to > reach the people who made the products? No, the manufacturers knew about the > deadly nature of their products, but they kept on selling them. The FDA > didn't answer letters on the subject, and medical magazines such as J.A.M.A. > declined to publish even brief letters seriously discussing the issue. > Obviously, since many people died from what the drug companies called > "paradoxical bronchoconstriction" when they used the products, the drug > companies had to be protected from lawsuits, and the medical magazines and > the government regulators did that through the control of information. I > think a similar situation exists now in relation to the effects of > carrageenan." > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 12:44:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22925 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21425 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:53:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21418 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.43.104.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.43.104]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19113; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380B2860.79395C9D@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:02:08 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Mulch in the Sahel? Peace Corps volunteer requests info and advice. References: <000101bf1918$cf2e70e0$103325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3253 Again, some good ideas, but there are reasons why they might not work. In the arid inland region, where our family lived for some years, it is very hot and the climate not conducive to labor. My father built his garden right beside the river. He dug out soil that he used to make a berm against the river,and used that lowered soil level for his planting beds. The water was right at hand, so not a scarcity. He raised tremendous crops. I recall one cabbage so large I could have curled up in it. But never, ever did anyone copy his garden. They had free access to all the land and the river water, but they did not do anything about it. When starvation years came, they looked so thin you could see the spine from the front of them. It was hot, and just too tiring to carry water, or to exert themeselves. They never got any benefit from my father's example. Mollison talks about utilizing leaves, etc. but the natives I saw would never put out that amount of effort. They just sat in their little huts and starved. The missionary would try to help, but no one family could feed the whole countryside. Everyone wanted rice, but it grows in water, and the whole land was dry, except for the river. Their main standby was meat, from bullocks killed for only funeral sprees, and it was eaten at once, as it couldnot be kept even overnight without refrigeration. Gathering leaves, mounding to make raised beds, wouldnot ever be done--just too much effort. Argall Family wrote: > Loren > > I think it would be useful for such workers to have a copy of Bill > Mollison's 'Permaculture, A Designer's Manual' Tagari Publications, Tyalgum, > Australia 1988, (US sources would be known to US permaculture groups), which > has a whole section on dryland strategies. > > The appropriate strategy is going to be local and must be politically > feasible. > > Mollison writes, p 315, that "Gardeners [in drylands] have had good results > from shredded bark, manure and leaf nutrients as mulch, with compost below > this, and some sulphur added if pH is high." But I expect a major issue is > source of mulching material, and that requires attention to preservation of > plants, especially 'woody weed' species. Desert plants are usually prolific > seeders and local species are of course best adapted to local conditions. > Often pioneer species are good soil improvers, acacias are nitrogen fixing, > and also lower pH, but some desert species will tend not so such to improve > soils as to have individual survival strategies, by seed proliferation, > aestivation [opposite of hibernation] etc; plants adapted to holding water > make good live fodder, if there is a sensible plant-animal balance. > Whatever, being able to exclude animals, especially goats, from any > significant area for a couple of years, or a couple of rains, would seem a > critical start point for developing biomass for soil, compost or mulch. > Living plants, rather than dead material, may need to be the first priority, > and then it may be better to try to grow within such an environment rather > than disturb it with cultivation. The goat/livestock question is, I would > have thought, critical. Especially if it tangles with a balance between > men's business [herding] and women's business [planting]. > > But again, I'd recommend the Mollison book as wonderful food for strategic, > large enough and ideaful enough to get any Peace Corp worker off to sleep > with new ideas at night, and complex enough to need reading several times to > get benefit. > > Dennis > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 12:44:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22929 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:44:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21414 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:53:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21360 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.43.104.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.43.104]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18823; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380B25A1.117930A1@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:50:25 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Argall Family CC: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Organic & Soil Nutrients and Mineralization References: <000201bf1918$d33d9080$103325cb@p2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3254 I think too, in ref to "aboriginal" people, that the same thing may be happening now in Madagascar. All the people had lovely skin and beautiful teeth. They ate stewed meat, cooked greens, and raw tomatoes, with of course cooked brown/red rice. That was the staple diet, well, also rice for breakfast. The few canned foods were for the richer French, never attainable by the natives. Butnow I see photos with even children in shoes, and clothes obviously sewn by machine, so I suppose the diet is "civilized" now too. Argall Family wrote: > Klaus > > I enjoyed your thought-provoking piece but the long two part argument (from > John Coleman?) seemed to finish up running back to simplicities. Almost like > an undergraduate exam essay, where the student, with 10 seconds to go, and > enough cards dumped on the table, finishes quickly by saying "so eat less > meat". > > When looking at the terrible impacts on the health of indigenous peoples, > and there are a number of references to the South Pacific (there are no > 'Great Barrier Reef people' but I suspect that the reference is to a > particular former mission community of Australian aboriginal people) I think > regard has to be had for the undermining of health not just by diet but by > efforts at their overall cultural destruction, loss of land, loss of > lifestyle, loss of identity. The condensed milk and canned fish and other > store goods that seem to have contributed to health decline in the South > Pacific need to be seen in broader context. > > I think there are problems associated with the balance of the 'meat' we eat, > in its modern focus on muscle meat, and the general exclusion of offal from > food offered in stores, but I would not try to run on official figures. > According to the WHO, the average person can survive on about 40 grams of > good protein per day, but I understand, second hand, can't cite source, that > according to MIT graduate students, they all lost body protein when they > tested a diet of 40 grams. Protein deficiency is probably the most common > main cause of hypothyroidism, especially when combined with use of the > thyroid antagonistic foods, cabbage-broccoli, beans, unsaturated oils. (One > of the many ways in which those oils are antithyroid is that they neatly > block protein digestion.) So to look at an amount of protein on a kitchen > scale and say 'that's the right amount' is likely to fall short in a normal > diet with foods in combination. > > To argue against gelatin and sugar seems a bit naive, especially on the > basis of saying that they are no good because they only contain sugar and > gelatin. Is oxygen bad because it only contains oxygen? Gelatin and sugar, > in modest amounts, are wonderfully supportive for invalids, for good > biological reasons. Arguments in favour of starches rather than simple > sugars are simplistic, ignoring the extent to which the former can create > problems of bacterial endotoxin in the gut, etc. To the extent that the > paper argues for fruit and against grain, this seems good, but the muddle > arises with the tut tut over sugar. Oranges, an exemplary food, if not drunk > from a bottle containing preservatives, contain the simplest of sugars. > > Being 'organic' doesn't say much about nutrition, of course, anyway. You can > grow tobacco, opium and coca organically, just like canola, foxgloves, > oleander... > > The issue of junk foods, with all their additives, is something else again. > There was mention of the impact of preservatives on the environment. > Anecdotal evidence from the funeral industry in this country is that bodies > just don't rot like they used to. If oxidation is blocked in dead people, we > should presume that healthy electron transfer processes. The New Scientist > contained an article early in 1998 on the swamp creating effect of sulphur > dioxide on the gut. Even some mineral waters are marketed here with sulphur > dioxide added, no doubt to save money on batch checking for contamination. > So, if we are going to talk about the merits of foods kids like to eat, we > have to look at the fine print too. > > I commend Ray Peat's paper on Junk Foods, available at > http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/ , from which I append an extract. > > Dennis > ============= > > "Years ago, I noticed that Oregon was one of the few states that still had > real whipping cream and cottage cheese without additives, so I have been > trustingly using cream in my coffee every day. Last week, I noticed that my > cream listed carrageenan in its ingredients. Over the years, I have avoided > carrageenan-containing foods such as apple cider, hot dogs, most ice creams > and prepared sauces and jellies, because they caused me to have serious > allergic symptoms. Carrageenan has been found to cause colitis and > anaphylaxis in humans, but it is often present in baby "formulas" and a wide > range of milk products, with the result that many people have come to > believe that it was the milk-product that was responsible for their allergic > symptoms. Because the regulators claim that it is a safe natural substance, > it is very likely that it sometimes appears in foods that don't list it on > the label, for example when it is part of another ingredient. In the 1940s, > carrageenan, a polysaccharide made from a type of seaweed, was recognized as > a dangerous allergen. Since then it has become a standard laboratory > material to use to produce inflammatory tumors (granulomas), > immunodeficiency, arthritis, and other inflammations. It has also become an > increasingly common material in the food industry. Articles are often > written to praise its usefulness and to claim that it doesn't produce cancer > in healthy animals. Its presence in food, like that of the polyester > imitation fat, microcrystalline cellulose, and many other polymers used to > stabilize emulsions or to increase smoothness, is often justified by the > doctrine that these molecules are too large to be absorbed. There are two > points that are deliberately ignored by the food-safety regulators, 1) these > materials can interact dangerously with intestinal bacteria, and 2) they can > be absorbed, in the process called "persorption." > > "The sulfites (sodium bisulfite, potassium metabisulfite, etc.) have been > used as preservatives in foods and drugs for a long time, even though they > were known to cause intense allergic reactions in some people. Fresh > vegetables and fish, dried fruits, ham and other preserved meats, hominy, > pickles, canned vegetables and juices, and wines were commonly treated with > large amounts of the sulfites to prevent darkening and the development of > unpleasant odors. People with asthma were known to be more sensitive than > other people, but the sulfites could cause a fatal asthma-like attack even > in someone who had never had asthma. Even when this was known, drugs used to > treat asthma were preserved with sulfites. Was the information just slow to > reach the people who made the products? No, the manufacturers knew about the > deadly nature of their products, but they kept on selling them. The FDA > didn't answer letters on the subject, and medical magazines such as J.A.M.A. > declined to publish even brief letters seriously discussing the issue. > Obviously, since many people died from what the drug companies called > "paradoxical bronchoconstriction" when they used the products, the drug > companies had to be protected from lawsuits, and the medical magazines and > the government regulators did that through the control of information. I > think a similar situation exists now in relation to the effects of > carrageenan." > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 13:33:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24008 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07190 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:44:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from s-ext.ufrrj.br (server1.ufrrj.br [200.11.1.254]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07106 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:44:30 -0400 (EDT) From: lena@ufrrj.br Received: (from uucp@localhost) by s-ext.ufrrj.br (8.9.2/8.9.2) id OAA13774 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:42:28 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from lena@ufrrj.br) Message-Id: <199910181642.OAA13774@s-ext.ufrrj.br> Received: from dynamic.ufrrj.br(200.11.5.99), claiming to be "lena.ufrrj.br" via SMTP by s-ext.ufrrj.br, id smtpdL13772; Mon Oct 18 14:42:25 1999 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:35:24 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: unappropriate messages X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3255 Dear sanet members, I am new to this list, sort of. At least I have showed limited participation. This is partly due to the fact that I have to sort through some odd 75 messages per day, most of which are directed to individuals and not to the list and therefore of little importance to me. Perhaps we can respect other peoples mail boxes and direct our mail directly to those concerned, unless of course it is something deemed important to the list as a whole. With less mail to sort through, I may have more time to actually take part in what I do have time to read. Thank you for your consideration, lena miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 13:34:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24018 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04894 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:34:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA04853 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA07717; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:32:43 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xmaa07657; Mon, 18 Oct 99 11:31:57 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:31:57 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF98@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de'" Subject: RE: harnessing endophytic and epiphytic relationships Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:31:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3256 Klaus, > the lecturer made clear, that plants infested with endophytes > never show any phenological symptoms.... might only be valid > for the small grasses he worked with... You mean "phenological" or "phenotypical." The Festuca sp. may not look different, but they sure are more toxic to animals when infected with the typical endophytes. > there never was any REAL strong infestation of fusarium ON the > plants. that was amazing, as we know of several larger regions, > where corn is grown very intensively. the real problem is not > corn after corn, but small grains after corn. 6 or 7 years of > corn and then a wheat on this field will result in a DESASTER. > in several years though we had problems with the corn cob > mixtures from these plots. it wasn't analysed, but my > predecessor highly suspected it to be F. oxysporum. In moist northern climates corn ears and stalks are often rotted by Fusarium graminearum (Gibberella zea). This fungus also causes scab in small grains. The Fusarium moniliforme complex (moniliforme, subglutinans, proliferatum) is more subtle. If you split a normal, healthy corn plant when knee-high you will see a faint darkening in the center of the stem at the base of the plant. This is more pronounced in sweet corn. Whenever I have tried, I have been able to isolate F. moniliforme from aseptic cubes of this tissue. What is more, I have isolated ergosterol (a uniquely fungal lipid) from this part of the stem. > how do you understand "good" varieties ? infection resistant ? or > might most of the "good" properties even be the major result of > resistance ? I am thinking that in selection for yield and late-season stalk strength, inadvertent selection for a favorable association has occurred. Modern breeders do inoculate with these things, but in my hands, F. moniliforme seems strangely non-virulent when inoculated. > our experience clearly show, that the grade of fusarium > infection is a (highly significant) function of the length of the > stalk. the shorter the stalk, the faster the infection and the > more intense. It may be that southern (US) dent germplasm develops a more favorable association with F. moniliforme than do the northern flints, from which short, early corn varieties are largely derived. In my garden, ultra-early sweet corns (northern flint background) seem to have more stalk Fusarium than later sweet corns (also flinty, but probably with more S. dent introgression). My model is that F. moniliforme and it's ilk, infect the seedling as the radicle wounds and penetrates the coleorhiza. The fungus grows up the mesocotyl and forms a latent infection in the crown, and only becomes "pathological" under certain kinds of stress. After flowering, the fungus begins to ramify in the stalk. In favorable associations, nothing bad happens to the corn plant, but F. moniliforme gets to eat it all at senesecence. Ears become infected largely via silk infection and the fungus is transmitted in the pedicel remnant at the base of the kernel. > in our > experience the infection level of the cob depended much more on > environmental factors (mostly humidity resp. the lack of soil > water) and even more on the tillage system (no-till with mulch- > seeding had the worst effect on infection in small grains, which > followed after corn) than on seed infection rates. Again, are you sure we are talking about the same species of Fusarium? > would you confirm our observations, that breeders are more and more > breeding for industrial usage properties and less and less for > agronomical advantages ? and even more: at the expense of > agronomical properties ? Pioneer has always been, and still is very, very focused on agronomic traits. The big things have been yield and standability. Special grain traits get more press intentionally, but yield and stalk are still our bread and butter. The grain traits I hear the most about include: - improved milling properties (better product recovery) - reduced mycotoxin (better food-grade corn) - high oil (high energy corn) - exotic starches and polymers for special uses - low phytate (reduced P in manure) - high sucrose soybeans (not so fartatious in soymilk and tofu and in feed) Some of these will be challenging in the seed quality area, since dinking around with the grain is also messing with the seed. (seed quality is my thing). Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 13:59:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24377 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:59:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17270 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:09:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from bean.epix.net (bean.epix.net [199.224.64.57]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17261 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-60ppp48.epix.net [209.74.60.48]) by bean.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999100101/PL) with ESMTP id NAA03094; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380B5589.F35662B6@epix.net> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:14:49 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gary Elliott CC: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Onelist-Y2K References: <19991017124711135.AAA740%ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.55]> <380A8B87.11C7518C@real.on.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3257 Gary, I think your assessment of y2k is balanced. Sure, there are those who will make money out of it, but it is one of the most unique events with uncertain consequences we as humanity have faced in the last couple millennuims. Folks find comfort in companies stating "99%" y2k ready, but I sure won't drive a car that was 99% "ready". If that 1% of "unreadiness" represented the fuel pump, we ain't goin' nowhere! It can be fixed, but what if the parts store can't find the right fuel pump because of some other y2k problem in their system? You can soon see the domino effect. If y2k doesn't amount to much, I'd rather be prepared now then have to scamble the first week of the new year. -- Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 14:07:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24476 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25893 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:28:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25879 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:28:10 -0400 (EDT) From: flylo@txcyber.com Received: from flylo (ppp226.cy-net.net [208.21.195.35]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11549 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:26:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199910181726.MAA11549@portal.txcyber.com> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:25:14 -0500 Subject: mining the 'net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3258 This is kinda for Misha. But, it's a heads-up for us all. Someone pointed me to a site www.bagelhole.com that has many topics on self-sufficiency. I was surprised to find a Misha quote about maggots (fairly long rant) but no credits to her name. I don't know if folk are 'mining' for information on the various groups that such topics are discussed, w/out our knowledge or crediting ourselves. I did write to the owners of the site and have received no reply yet. Also, I moderate 2 lists on OneList, and am a member of 4 others. I've yet to be spammed or confronted with outrageous advertising. I'd be more concerned with people taking posts such as appear in SANET and OGL archives and using them to pad their own webpages, as it appears the bagelhole owners have done. If someone wants to quote something I've said on a usegroup or list digest, I certainly don't mind, but please ask me and (pretty please), link back to my own site, I might want to sell you something! Martha, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html See TexCat Web page: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/Texcat_home.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 18 06:52:12 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17181 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05826 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:05:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05813 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id RAA23077; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:56:36 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id SAA08334; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:12:17 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910181012.SAA08334@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 18 Oct 99 08:00:32 Subject: Re: College farm list/OneList.com To: mgs23@pacbell.net Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3259 >For example, water purifier, electrical generator, and bunker-food >companies have always tried to make money off of people by scaring >them with various potential catastrophes. But it wasn't till a group >of very savvy Internet consultants engineered the Y2K scare--and >wormed it into everyone's consciousness--that it generated a mass of >commercial activity. That is, folks buying their Y2K rations. Hi Misha. I agree with your Onelist analysis completely, although I disagree with the particular example above. This is not really the list for the Y2K debate, so I'll keep it brief: I'm a one-time computer specialist who has been involved in social movements here in the Philippines for at least a decade. The first time I read about Y2K, I thought exactly as you did: these people want to scare us so they can make more money. But as I began to read about it, I realized that this problem was real and very serious. It is like inserting the Bt toxin gene in nearly every useful food plant, then suddenly there's a new virus that attacks plants with this gene. Only, this Y2K virus starts the attack on a date that can't be postponed. On second thought, the problem is not so unrelated to SANET. Those who are close to the land and rely on it for their food, esp. those who don't rely on oil-based chemical agriculture, will be least affected. But at higher risk are those who rely completely on the industrial food farming, processing and distribution system -- which is largely oil-based, and the oil extraction, processing and distribution system is vulnerable to Y2K problems because all are nearly 100% automated. There's lot more, of course. Well, we have only 70 days to find out... Regards, Roberto Verzola To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 14:46:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25429 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08336 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:04:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08322 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTHGJB9>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:01:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'ilstew@fgi.net'" Subject: FW: Sustainable Ag Exec. Dir. position Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:01:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3260 Please reply to the Illinois Stewardship Alliance (ilstew@fgi.net). -----Original Message----- From: Renee Hunt [mailto:ilstew@fgi.net] Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 3:25 PM To: 'san@nal.usda.gov' Subject: Sustainable Ag Exec. Dir. position Would you be able to post the following on SAN NET? Thanks for your help! Renee Hunt Below is an "ad" for the Illinois Stewardship Alliance Executive Director position. I have a longer job position description plus background information on the Stewardship Alliance I can mail/fax/email to anyone interested in more details. We ask that you help get the word out by circulating the "ad" and directing potential candidates our way. Thanks so much for your assistance! EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, full-time, for a family farm/rural, sustainable agriculture/healthy food system advocacy organization. Responsibilities: financial management, fundraising, membership development, staff and program oversight/development, spokesperson. Must be a self-starter, able to work with a volunteer board, and support the organization's mission. Experience and skills: grantwriting/reporting and other fundraising; fiscal/administration of a not-for-profit; organizational and staff development; strong writing/communication; network and coalition building. Candidates must have a bachelor's degree; higher degree and/or equivalent experience greatly desired. Salary commensurate with experience and qualifications, plus benefits. Send resume with a cover letter outlining qualifications to: Illinois Stewardship Alliance, P.O. Box 648, Rochester, IL 62563; ilstew@fgi.net or call 217/498-9707 for more information. EOE. Closes 11/19/99. Renee Hunt Illinois Stewardship Alliance P.O. Box 648 Rochester, IL 62563 Phone: 217/498-9707 Fax: 217/498-9235 email: ilstew@fgi.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 15:24:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26272 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:24:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15623 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:45:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15609 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:43:53 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D01953AF8@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Webb, Kevin" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Research on use of local food by institutions Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:43:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3261 Hello- I'm looking for any leads on work being done to integrate local food (the more local the better, generally speaking: within the state, produced by small-scale, sustainable producers) into institutions, particularly public institutions like universities. Any contacts, informational resources, etc. sent my way would be greatly appreciated. Also curious if anyone has a copy of "A Guide to Starting a Local Food Project", Based on the Hendrix College Experience. 1991. By Melissa Beck Yazman. I tried calling the college, but no one I spoke to there was able to put their hands on it. I would gladly pay for costs of copying and mailing. Many thanks, Kevin Kevin Webb Food Circles Networking Project Department of Rural Sociology University of Missouri-Columbia 105 Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 (573) 882-3776 [573] 882=1473 (fax) webbk@missouri.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 16:06:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27175 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:06:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01465 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:31:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01195 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:31:13 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 7GZB01xc7Z (4466) for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.4baf88e4.253ccef9@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:28:57 EDT Subject: Organic cotton and environemental organizations To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3262 Does anyone feel like I do? I am upset with environmental organizations who still use conventional cotton T-Shirts in marketing even though their mission is to protect the environment. Here is a letter I received from one such organization and I would like to know what you think of their excuse not to use organic cotton. SBreheney@mbayaq.org Is the return email address if you would also like to send your comments to them. %%%%%%%%%%%%%% Thank you for your interest in the Monterey Bay Aquarium Gift & Bookstore. We appreciate the time you have taken to share your comments with us. We also appreciate your comments regarding the need to carry organic cotton T-shirts in our Gift & Bookstores. We regret that we have not yet been able to add quite as ambitious an assortment of organic cotton merchandise as we had planned when last we wrote you earlier this year, but we remain hopeful that our plans will come to fruition in the coming months. Again, as we stated in our letter of February 19, our Retail Buyers share your environmental concerns regarding non-organic cotton, and we continue to be frustrated in our efforts to offer more environmentally responsible apparel because of the continuing cost difference between non-organic and organic cotton. This higher cost necessitates a higher retail price for the finished product, which limits its appeal to our visitors. Because the Gift & Bookstore contributes a significant amount of the Aquarium's operating revenue, we have had to balance revenue and environmental concerns. However, we are pleased to be able to offer to our visitors at least some eco-friendly apparel at this time, and we still plan to expand our selection in the foreseeable future. As a side note, we are still pleased to tell you that we do make a point of ordering the majority of our shirts from vendors who use water-based inks and who are aware of the Aquarium's environmental concerns. Thank you again for your comments. We are constantly striving to make the Aquarium the best it can be and our visitor comments help us in reaching this goal. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 16:42:26 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29108 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11183 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:58:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11171 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id OAA91640 (8.9.1/50); Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:56:41 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19991018145701.007288c4@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:57:01 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: Klemme promotion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3263 FYI - it is now official - Rick Klemme will be leaving as director of the UW-Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems to be Associate Dean of UW-Extension in CALS and the Agriculture Program Leader for UWEX. We are really going to miss him here at CIAS, but are very happy for his career success. If you want to email him best wishes, sent them to klemme@aae.wisc.edu Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 16:48:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29241 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18976 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:11:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18880 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTHGNHQ>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:10:07 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'jauburn@REEUSDA.GOV'" Subject: FW: USDA to hold regional forums on conservation Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:10:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3264 Please note contact information for each forum, as well as the national contacts for this initiative: National USDA contacts are: SCOTT HOAG, JR., NRCS, 202-690-4979, scott.hoag@usda.gov; STEVE SATTERFIELD, FS, 202-205-1389, ssatterfield/wo@fs.fed.us Andy Clark Sustainable Agriculture Network http://www.sare.org -----Original Message----- From: Auburn Jill ECS [mailto:JAUBURN@intranet.reeusda.gov] Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 3:40 PM To: 'san@nal.usda.gov' Subject: USDA to hold regional forums on conservation Andy, could you post this to sanet-mg? --Jill Conservation Challenges Featured in Upcoming USDA Forums ============================================== Agriculture Secretary DAN GLICKMAN this week announced that the USDA will hold a series of regional forums in late October to discuss conservation issues affecting America's farms, forests, and ranch lands. According to Glickman, these forums will serve as a sounding board to assess what new directions USDA should take to improve the Nation's environmental quality and the health of the American landscape. Regional forums are currently planned for Sacramento, CA; Portland, OR; Denver, CO; Syracuse, NY; and Atlanta, GA. A National Conservation Summit will be held in Ames, IA, to discuss the need for new direction in USDA's conservation and forestry programs. In recent years, USDA has expanded its conservation efforts beyond curbing soil erosion to include farmland protection, improving water quality, restoring wetlands, protecting soil productivity, managing livestock manure, enhancing fish and wildlife habitat, and promoting conservation in the Nation's cities and communities. Each forum will be hosted by a senior USDA official and will include a public comment session. Written comments from audience members will be welcomed as well. The sessions will center on a dialogue among Governors; members of Congress; farmers, ranchers, and foresters; and state and regional representatives from agricultural, environmental, consumer, and other groups and businesses regarding conservation challenges, farm bill issues, and future budget needs. Locations, dates, and USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service and USDA Forest Service contacts are listed below: Forums: Portland, OR, Wednesday, Oct. 20 - Portland Airport Holiday Inn, 8439 NE Columbia Boulevard, Portland, OR. Contacts: GAYLE NORMAN, NRCS, Portland, OR., 503-414-3236, gayle.norman@or.nrcs.usda.gov Denver, CO, Thursday, Oct. 21 - Radisson-Denver, Stapleton Plaza, 3333 Quebec Street, Denver, CO. Contacts: PETRA BARNES, NRCS, Denver, Colo., 303-236-2886 x216, pbarnes@co.nrcs.usda.gov Sacramento, CA, Friday, Oct .22 - Sacramento Convention Center, 13th and K Streets, Sacramento, CA. Contacts: J.R. FLORES, NRCS, Sacramento, Calif., 530-792-5603, jr.flores@ca.usda.gov Syracuse, NY, Tuesday, Oct. 26- Sheraton University Hotel, 801 University Avenue, Syracuse, NY. Contacts: MARK BUCCOWICH, FS, Radnor, Pa., 610-975-4029, mbuccowich/na@fs.fed.us Atlanta, GA, Wednesday, Oct. 27 - JW Marriott at Lenox, 3300 Lenox Road, NE, Atlanta, GA. Contacts: DAVID HOGE, FS, Atlanta, Ga., 404-347-1649, dhoge/r8@fs.fed.us Summit: Ames, IA, Tuesday, Dec. 14 - Scheman Center, Iowa State University, Ames, IA. Contact: LYNN BETTS, NRCS, Des Moines, IA, 515-284-4262, lbetts@terra.ia.nrcs.usda.gov National USDA contacts are: SCOTT HOAG, JR., NRCS, 202-690-4979, scott.hoag@usda.gov; STEVE SATTERFIELD, FS, 202-205-1389, ssatterfield/wo@fs.fed.us Jill Auburn Sustainable Agriculture Research & Education (SARE) USDA-CSREES-ECS 202-720-5384 jauburn@reeusda.gov To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 17:35:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00049 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03771 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:54:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.cybermesa.com (mail.cybermesa.com [198.59.109.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03757 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from internet.roadrunner.com (root@internet.roadrunner.com [198.59.109.7]) by mail.cybermesa.com (8.9.3/8.9.3(SpamKiller1.0)) with ESMTP id OAA02128; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:51:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.12.75.153] (dial134.roadrunner.com [209.12.75.134]) by internet.roadrunner.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA08615; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CTBull@aol.com, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: nrboone@roadrunner.com (Nathan/Rachna Boone) Subject: Re: Organic cotton and environemental organizations Cc: ofc@igc.org, panna@panna.org Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3265 Dear CTBull & sanet, I would suggest that you contact Sandra Marquardt at the Organic Fiber Council (ofc@igc.org) or at 510-215-8841. We've published the Organic Cotton Directory which lists over 125 companies that make organic cotton products. I also worked on a recent Consumers' Guide to Organic Cotton published by Mother's & Other's (tel: 212-242-0010). Also contact PANNA, they currently have a campaign to encourage environmental groups to use organic cotton for their own organizational merchandise. They can be reached at and on the web: www.panna.org> The price differential does exist, but it's no excuse for not offering a choice to consumers. Good luck! Nathan Boone founder, organic fiber council >Does anyone feel like I do? I am upset with environmental organizations who >still use conventional cotton T-Shirts in marketing even though their mission >is to protect the environment. Here is a letter I received from one such >organization and I would like to know what you think of their excuse not to >use organic cotton. >SBreheney@mbayaq.org Is the return email address if you would also like to >send your comments to them. > >%%%%%%%%%%%%%% >Thank you for your interest in the Monterey Bay Aquarium Gift & Bookstore. > >We appreciate the time you have taken to share your comments with us. > > >We also appreciate your comments regarding the need to carry organic cotton > >T-shirts in our Gift & Bookstores. We regret that we have not yet been able > >to add quite as ambitious an assortment of organic cotton merchandise as we > >had planned when last we wrote you earlier this year, but we remain hopeful > >that our plans will come to fruition in the coming months. > > >Again, as we stated in our letter of February 19, our Retail Buyers share > >your environmental concerns regarding non-organic cotton, and we continue to > >be frustrated in our efforts to offer more environmentally responsible > >apparel because of the continuing cost difference between non-organic and > >organic cotton. This higher cost necessitates a higher retail price for the > >finished product, which limits its appeal to our visitors. Because the Gift > >& Bookstore contributes a significant amount of the Aquarium's operating > >revenue, we have had to balance revenue and environmental concerns. > >However, we are pleased to be able to offer to our visitors at least some > >eco-friendly apparel at this time, and we still plan to expand our selection > >in the foreseeable future. > > >As a side note, we are still pleased to tell you that we do make a point of > >ordering the majority of our shirts from vendors who use water-based inks > >and who are aware of the Aquarium's environmental concerns. > > >Thank you again for your comments. We are constantly striving to make the > >Aquarium the best it can be and our visitor comments help us in reaching > >this goal. > > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 18:04:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00527 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17359 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:23:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17349 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from schilling.ucdavis.edu (schilling.ucdavis.edu [169.237.105.1]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16078 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.120.215.247] (danr247.ucdavis.edu [128.120.215.247]) by schilling.ucdavis.edu (8.9.3/UCD3.13.13) with ESMTP id OAA01935; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1271839652==_ma============" X-Sender: kelleher@mailbox.ucdavis.edu Message-Id: Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:40:37 -0800 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, wsare-ext@ucdavis.edu, westernsawg@onenw.org, jfawcett@eskimo.com, newsletter@reeusda.gov, caeseditor@agdean.ucdavis.edu, davidz@ncatfyv.uark.edu, leocenter@iastate.edu, hawiaa@access.digex.net, gabriele.kassner@ucop.edu, brad.fisher@usda.gov, Beth-Dethlefsen@nacdnet.org, AgPwrMag@aol.com, solson@reeusda.gov, casawg@igc.apc.org, chrisL@eharvest.com, IPMnetNUZ@ava.bcc.orst.edu, safefood@cp.duluth.mn.us, fbpays@jps.net From: Kristen Kelleher Subject: NEWS: Western Farmer/Rancher Grants Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3266 --============_-1271839652==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Note to Editors: Please do not post this announcement after December 15, giving applicants at least one month to request applications and prepare grant proposals. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Announcement October 1999 For grant applications, contact: Western SARE Office, Utah State University (435) 797-2257 or wsare@mendel.usu.edu Download from: http://wsare.usu.edu/ after October 29 Producer-Directed Research Grants Available, Year 2000 Awards Cycle Underway (Logan, UT) - The U.S. Department of Agriculture's Western Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (Western SARE) program has released its call for proposals for producer-directed research efforts. With applications due in January, selected projects will be among the first Western SARE grantees of the new century. Producers and producer groups residing in the Western U.S. can compete for grants to identify, evaluate and test sustainable agriculture practices and challenges through this grant program. Individuals can apply for grants of up to $5,000; producer groups (three or more farm/ranch operations working cooperatively) can apply for up to $10,000. A total pool of $120,000 is available in the region for one-year grants. The deadline for completed applications is January 15, 2000. (However, since this date is a Saturday, proposals will be accepted until Monday, January 17, 2000 at 5 p.m. Mountain Standard Time.) To request application materials, contact the host office at Utah State University at (435) 797-2257 or wsare@mendel.usu.edu. The call for proposals will also be available on-line via the Western SARE Web site at http://wsare.usu.edu/ According to soil scientist Phil Rasmussen, regional coordinator of Western SARE, grant reviewers will be looking for proposals that clearly define local sustainable agriculture problems or issues and propose innovative solutions. On-farm tests of suggested technologies and approaches are strongly encouraged. All research proposals must be led by one or more producers, include a professional agricultural technical advisor (a farm advisor or university researcher, for example), and provide a plan for sharing gained information with others in the community. Grant proposals are first reviewed and evaluated by a diverse group of producers, researchers, educators and administrators who are familiar with sustainable agriculture. Final selections are made by an appointed panel, at least half of which are producers. All funding is awarded competitively. Any commercial producer or producer group is eligible to apply for a grant, but only one award will be bestowed annually to an individual producer, farm/ranch enterprise or producer organization. About SARE The federal SARE program is managed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service, and directed regionally by four independent, broad-based councils. Utah State University is host to the SARE program in the Western region, which includes Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming and the Island Protectorates. ### Prepared by: Kristen Kelleher, Western SARE Communications Specialist --============_-1271839652==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Times_New_RomanNote to Editors: Please do not post this announcement after December 15, giving applicants at least one month to request applications and prepare grant proposals. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Announcement October 1999 =46or grant applications, contact: Western SARE Office, Utah State University (435) 797-2257 or wsare@mendel.usu.edu Download from: 0000,0000,00FFhttp://wsare.usu.edu/ after October 29 Producer-Directed Research Grants Available, Year 2000 Awards Cycle Underway (Logan, UT) - The U.S. Department of Agriculture's Western Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education (Western SARE) program has released its call for proposals for producer-directed research efforts. With applications due in January, selected projects will be among the first Western SARE grantees of the new century. Producers and producer groups residing in the Western U.S. can compete for grants to identify, evaluate and test sustainable agriculture practices and challenges through this grant program. Individuals can apply for grants of up to $5,000; producer groups (three or more farm/ranch operations working cooperatively) can apply for up to $10,000. A total pool of $120,000 is available in the region for one-year grants.=20 The deadline for completed applications is January 15, 2000. (However, since this date is a Saturday, proposals will be accepted until Monday, January 17, 2000 at 5 p.m. Mountain Standard Time.) To request application materials, contact the host office at Utah State University at (435) 797-2257 or 0000,0000,00FFwsare@mendel.usu.edu. The call for proposals will also be available on-line via the Western SARE Web site at 0000,0000,00FFhttp://wsare.usu.edu/ According to soil scientist Phil Rasmussen, regional coordinator of Western SARE, grant reviewers will be looking for proposals that clearly define local sustainable agriculture problems or issues and propose innovative solutions. On-farm tests of suggested technologies and approaches are strongly encouraged. All research proposals must be led by one or more producers, include a professional agricultural technical advisor (a farm advisor or university researcher, for example), and provide a plan for sharing gained information with others in the community. Grant proposals are first reviewed and evaluated by a diverse group of producers, researchers, educators and administrators who are familiar with sustainable agriculture. Final selections are made by an appointed panel, at least half of which are producers. All funding is awarded competitively. Any commercial producer or producer group is eligible to apply for a grant, but only one award will be bestowed annually to an individual producer, farm/ranch enterprise or producer organization. About SARE The federal SARE program is managed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service, and directed regionally by four independent, broad-based councils. Utah State University is host to the SARE program in the Western region, which includes Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming and the Island Protectorates. ### Prepared by: Kristen Kelleher, Western SARE Communications Specialist --============_-1271839652==_ma============-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 18:58:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01319 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26906 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:27:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26893 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:27:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (ncs-69.nbn.com [199.4.66.69]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id PAA21817; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: , Subject: RE: Organic cotton and environemental organizations Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:23:22 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <0.4baf88e4.253ccef9@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3267 I would say that organizations and businesses should be regarded differently. Environmental (and other) organizations would benefit from a cotton t-shirt broker, who would collect orders from multiple groups, place one large order with the manufacturer, qualify for volume discounts, and thereby minimize the cost differential. The same would generally hold true for printing cost. Retail businesses (such as gift shops) are in a different boat, and would be hard-pressed to offer the customer a choice, as Nathan suggests. There is simply not enough incentive to justify the added work. Two reasons why a business would invest the time and energy in merchandising organic cotton products: philosophical and return. One of our jobs has to be to continue developing the distribution channels which will help mainstream organic products. - Michael ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of CTBull@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 12:29 PM To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Organic cotton and environemental organizations Does anyone feel like I do? I am upset with environmental organizations who still use conventional cotton T-Shirts in marketing even though their mission is to protect the environment. Here is a letter I received from one such organization and I would like to know what you think of their excuse not to use organic cotton. SBreheney@mbayaq.org Is the return email address if you would also like to send your comments to them. %%%%%%%%%%%%%% Thank you for your interest in the Monterey Bay Aquarium Gift & Bookstore. We appreciate the time you have taken to share your comments with us. We also appreciate your comments regarding the need to carry organic cotton T-shirts in our Gift & Bookstores. We regret that we have not yet been able to add quite as ambitious an assortment of organic cotton merchandise as we had planned when last we wrote you earlier this year, but we remain hopeful that our plans will come to fruition in the coming months. Again, as we stated in our letter of February 19, our Retail Buyers share your environmental concerns regarding non-organic cotton, and we continue to be frustrated in our efforts to offer more environmentally responsible apparel because of the continuing cost difference between non-organic and organic cotton. This higher cost necessitates a higher retail price for the finished product, which limits its appeal to our visitors. Because the Gift & Bookstore contributes a significant amount of the Aquarium's operating revenue, we have had to balance revenue and environmental concerns. However, we are pleased to be able to offer to our visitors at least some eco-friendly apparel at this time, and we still plan to expand our selection in the foreseeable future. As a side note, we are still pleased to tell you that we do make a point of ordering the majority of our shirts from vendors who use water-based inks and who are aware of the Aquarium's environmental concerns. Thank you again for your comments. We are constantly striving to make the Aquarium the best it can be and our visitor comments help us in reaching this goal. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 22:04:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03298 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:04:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18893 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:46:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18812 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.17] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:38:57 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:15:19 -0400 Subject: Free Range versus conventional eggs From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991019013857209.AAA356@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.17]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3268 > Can someone explain the compositional difference between true free-range > chicken eggs and grocery store eggs? One can observe the greater intensity > of the orange color, the better flavor and the much thicker shell in the > free-range egg, but are they really more nutritious? > > I came across an article about some small scale farmers getting $2.00 per > dozen for unfertilized free range, $4 for fertilized and $6 for green > Araucana eggs. I know the $2 price is accurate, but the other two are a > shock. > > I have 35 free-range chickens and 11 ducks prowling 4 wooded/pastured acres, > 2 of which are an enclosed rhea pen. (Why 35 chickens? I raise rheas which > are very fragile as chicks and didn't expect the chickens all to live. They > did. I also wanted to try pastured poultry but never got the pens built and > then the kids became animal rights activists.) > > In the meantime, I have discovered the chickens keep the rhea pasture > immaculate by scratching and probably finding food in the manure piles. I > have two multi-acre rhea pens. The food consumption per pound of animal in > the rhea/chicken pen is about 37% less than the pen with better grazing but > just housing rheas and a guard (another topic-that title is disputable) > llama. > > Although conventional wisdom says we should not combine these avian species > on the same farm, it appears to have a symbiotic effect. The rheas in the > chicken/rhea pen have grown faster and neither chickens nor rheas have > feather lice, which are considered ubiquitous in ratites. The noisy ducks > seem to be serving as a predator alarm system because this is the first year > I have had no loss to predators in that pen. Maybe we just got lucky, but > so far this looks like it could be a good sustainable ag model. > > It didn't take much math to figure out that I could have healthier birds, > cleaner pastures, and a source of income from eggs to pay for everyone's > feed bill from the free-range chicken eggs. > > So, other than the knowledge that the eggs are from a natural clean > environment and taste better, what other justification is there to support > the price? > > Is there a market and price for edible duck eggs? > > Donna Fezler > GCR > Jacksonville, IL Donna, this is excellent information you are discovering with your chicken/rhea multi-grazing experiment. As for price, I sell my eggs free range eggs wholesale to the health food stores for $2 per dozen, and they retail them for $2.39. This is lower than the "Horizon Organic Eggs" by about 30-cents dozen. Even though we have roosters with our flocks, I didn't think about the fertilized egg price being different until you posed the question. There is some good information on the pasturepoultry@onelist.com discussion group. If you pose your question there you will likely get the hard data you are seeking. Good Luck, Andy Lee To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 22:05:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03302 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19064 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:46:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18976 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.17] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:39:10 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:50:38 -0400 Subject: Excuse me while I delete you From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991019013910158.AAK356@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.17]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3269 > Misha hardly needs my coming to her defense, however civility might. One > of the things I've enjoyed low these many years has been the vigorous > defense of tolerance for diverse views on this list. > > I happen to be one of those folks who hate spending my resources - time, > money, screen space, bandwidth... for ads. If I wish to buy something, > I'll research that product on my own. It is particularly irritating when > my email address is gleaned from a maillist and ads are sent in the guise > of personal mail so I must open it instead of deleting it. > > As for Misha's posts, I personally find her opinions well thought out, her > writing poetic, her purview broadly literate, her humor subtle and ironic, > and her contribution to this list invaluble. > > I suggest, if a writer is not normally pleasing to you, you use your delete > button prior to opening their post. > > Marcie Marcie, with all due respect, you don't need to defend Misha, and you don't need to take up my time or that of others on the list, since we do not have any control over what happens to your name on the Internet, so don't fuss at me because I like advertising, especially when it helps me find markets for my farm products. Btw, my experience of Misha's writing is that it is very long-winded, often totally off the subject of this list, and yes I do delete frequently. Now, can we get back on subject? Andy To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 18 22:08:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03331 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16993 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:40:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16985 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:50:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: CTBull@aol.com, sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu, "'info@beyondorganic.com'" Subject: RE: Organic cotton and environemental organizations Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:50:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3270 i would guess that the u.s. government buys a lot of cotton t-shirts . . . this might be one of those situations where government purchasing can have a major impact on market development cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Michael Straus[SMTP:info@beyondorganic.com] > Reply To: info@beyondorganic.com > Sent: Monday 18 October 1999 6:23 PM > To: CTBull@aol.com; sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: Organic cotton and environemental organizations > > I would say that organizations and businesses should be regarded > differently. > > Environmental (and other) organizations would benefit from a cotton > t-shirt > broker, who would collect orders from multiple groups, place one large > order > with the manufacturer, qualify for volume discounts, and thereby minimize > the cost differential. The same would generally hold true for printing > cost. > > Retail businesses (such as gift shops) are in a different boat, and would > be > hard-pressed to offer the customer a choice, as Nathan suggests. There is > simply not enough incentive to justify the added work. Two reasons why a > business would invest the time and energy in merchandising organic cotton > products: philosophical and return. > > One of our jobs has to be to continue developing the distribution channels > which will help mainstream organic products. > > - Michael > > ++++++++++++++ > Michael Straus > Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture > 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA > voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 > www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On > Behalf Of CTBull@aol.com > Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 12:29 PM > To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Organic cotton and environemental organizations > > > Does anyone feel like I do? I am upset with environmental organizations > who > still use conventional cotton T-Shirts in marketing even though their > mission > is to protect the environment. Here is a letter I received from one such > organization and I would like to know what you think of their excuse not > to > use organic cotton. > SBreheney@mbayaq.org Is the return email address if you would also like > to > send your comments to them. > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Thank you for your interest in the Monterey Bay Aquarium Gift & Bookstore. > > We appreciate the time you have taken to share your comments with us. > > > We also appreciate your comments regarding the need to carry organic > cotton > > T-shirts in our Gift & Bookstores. We regret that we have not yet been > able > > to add quite as ambitious an assortment of organic cotton merchandise as > we > > had planned when last we wrote you earlier this year, but we remain > hopeful > > that our plans will come to fruition in the coming months. > > > Again, as we stated in our letter of February 19, our Retail Buyers share > > your environmental concerns regarding non-organic cotton, and we continue > to > > be frustrated in our efforts to offer more environmentally responsible > > apparel because of the continuing cost difference between non-organic and > > organic cotton. This higher cost necessitates a higher retail price for > the > > finished product, which limits its appeal to our visitors. Because the > Gift > > & Bookstore contributes a significant amount of the Aquarium's operating > > revenue, we have had to balance revenue and environmental concerns. > > However, we are pleased to be able to offer to our visitors at least some > > eco-friendly apparel at this time, and we still plan to expand our > selection > > in the foreseeable future. > > > As a side note, we are still pleased to tell you that we do make a point > of > > ordering the majority of our shirts from vendors who use water-based inks > > and who are aware of the Aquarium's environmental concerns. > > > Thank you again for your comments. We are constantly striving to make the > > Aquarium the best it can be and our visitor comments help us in reaching > > this goal. > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 18 21:43:21 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03094 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04314 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:16:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igc7.igc.org (igc7.igc.org [192.82.108.35]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04256 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:16:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igc7.igc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21141; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18881; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:27:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.pointer X-Conference: panna.pointer From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Resource Pointer #223 To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 91 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3271 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Resource Pointer #223 October 15, 1999 For copies of the following resources, please contact the appropriate publishers or organizations directly. *Riglementation des pesticides chimiques dangereux au Binin, 1999* Organisation Bininoise pour la Promotion de l'Agriculture Biologique (OBEPAB). Provides basic information on agriculture and pesticide use in Benin. Lists highly toxic pesticides used on crops in Benin, with emphasis on pesticide-intensive cotton production. Reviews implementation of Prior Informed Consent Convention, presence of obsolete pesticide stocks, cases of pesticide poisoning, and more. 24 pp. French. US$5 institutions and individuals in the South; US$10 in the North. Contact Pesticide Action Network - Africa, P.O. Box 15938, Dakar-Fann, Senegal; phone/fax (221) 8254914; email panafric@telecomplus.sn, website http://panafric.webjump.com/ *Regulation of Dangerous Pesticides in Zimbabwe, 1999* S. Musiyandaka and F. Nyakanda. Provides overview of agriculture, land distribution and pesticide use in Zimbabwe. Reviews regulations governing import, export, sale and distribution of pesticides; describes symbols used in pesticide labeling system; discusses implementation of Prior Informed Consent Convention; and lists obsolete pesticide stocks in Zimbabwe. 16 pp. US$5 institutions and individuals in the South; US$10 in the North. Contact Pesticide Action Network - Africa, P.O. Box 15938, Dakar- Fann, Senegal; phone/fax (221) 8254914; email panafric@telecomplus.sn, website http://panafric.webjump.com/ *Riglementation des pesticides dangereux au Cameroun, 1999* Appolinaire Etono Ngah. Provides overview of pesticide use on principal crops in Cameroon. Reviews import, export, sale and distribution of pesticides; stocks of obsolete pesticides; and possible strategies for reducing pesticide use. Author notes that integrated pest management (IPM) options have received minimal attention in Cameroon. Appendices list principal pests and diseases attacking crops in Cameroon; yearly data on pesticide imports; pesticides approved for use in Cameroun; and more. 24 pp. French. US$5 institutions and individuals in the South; US$10 in the North. Contact Pesticide Action Network - Africa, P.O. Box 15938, Dakar-Fann, Senegal; phone/fax (221) 8254914; email panafric@telecomplus.sn, website http://panafric.webjump.com/ *Pesticides and Alternatives* Trimesterly magazine published in English and French by PAN Africa. Covers pesticide and sustainable agriculture issues worldwide, with emphasis on Africa. May issue includes articles about indiscriminate pesticide use in Uganda; pesticide poisonings in Chad; future prospects for organic farming in Africa; popular resistance to genetic engineering; and updates on Montreal Protocol implementation. For subscription information contact Pesticide Action Network - Africa, P.O. Box 15938, Dakar-Fann, Senegal; phone/fax (221) 8254914; email panafric@telecomplus.sn, website http://panafric.webjump.com/ *PAN Africa Website* http://panafric.webjump.com/ New website providing information on PAN Africa's resources and activities. Includes description of PAN Africa's Resource Center on pesticides, integrated pest management (IPM) and sustainable agriculture plus list of PAN Africa's publications. Also provides information on upcoming 5th PAN International conference, planned for May 2000 in Dakar, Senegal. Contact Pesticide Action Network - Africa, P.O. Box 15938, Dakar-Fann, Senegal; phone/fax (221) 8254914; email panafric@telecomplus.sn We encourage those interested in having resources listed in the PANUPS Resource Pointer to send review copies of publications, videos or other resources to our office. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line in the body of the message: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use this text: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 10:13:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06866 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27261 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:11:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from po3.wam.umd.edu (po3.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27213 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 129.2.68.82 (aglifesurge-82.umd.edu [129.2.68.82]) by po3.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03623; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380C355A.140B@wam.umd.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:09:52 +0000 From: Valerie Berton Organization: SARE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: kathy@justfood.org Subject: NE CSA conference Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3272 Sanet colleagues: Any questions about this conference, please contact Kathy Lawrence, cc:ed above. Valerie Berton SARE Communications Specialist ******************************** ******************************** 1999 NORTHEAST REGIONAL CSA CONFERENCE JUST AROUND THE CORNER REGISTER NOW FOR THE CSA CONFERENCE OF THE MILLENNIUM! (See registration form below, or check out our website www.justfood.org) In mid-November hundreds of farmers and food-aware citizens will gather in Tamiment for the second Northeast CSA Conference. Designed to celebrated and advance the growing Community Supported Agriculture movement in our region, the conference offers farm tours (already sold out!), dozens of hands-on workshops, wonderful regional food, a CSA poster context, exhibits, roundtables and music. Most of all, the conference will provide a tremendous opportunity for a very diverse group of people to share ideas for building a more sustainable food system that supports farmers, enhances the natural environment, creates jobs and provides incredibly high-quality food to nearby folks, through CSA. Marty Strange, founder and former program director of the Center for Rural Affairs, will bring his considerable experience and insight in sustainable agriculture to a rousing keynote speech to open the conference. And knowledgeable, inspiring farmers, CSA members and agency folks will bring their wisdom to the interactive panels and workshops that form the heart of the conference. The conference will be held at Taminent Resort in the Poconos area of northeastern Pennsylvania - roughly in the middle of the region that stretches from Maine to West Virginia. The facilities include plentiful meeting spaces, a lake front and nearby woods for walks in the fresh autumn air, swimming pool, sauna and even massage! But all of this will be just the backdrop for a two and half day conference that will bring together hundreds of CSA farmers, members, other folks who are active and interested in the CSA movement. The Northeast CSA Conference begins Thursday November 11th and runs through Saturday November 13th. The final deadline for registrations is October 22nd, the registration fee is $60 per person. Register now, while it only costs $60! (After October 22nd, the conference costs $100). See registration below. For program details, check out our webpage: www.justfood.org. NORTHEAST CSA CONFERENCE II NOVEMBER 11 - 13, 1999 Registration Form REGISTRATION Remember to make your hotel reservations directly with Tamiment! Call Pamela Orna at 1-800-532 8280. Name_____________________________________________________ Farm/Organization________________________________________ Address__________________________________________________ City/State/Zip __________________________________________ Phone____________________________________________________ Fax______________________________________________________ Email____________________________________________________ __ I can volunteer for a 2 hour session at the conference. (i.e. set-up, registration table, record workshops, etc.) __ Im bringing along a musical instrument. (Thursday night, play by the fireplace and share your talents!) __ Im also bringing a Home Farm Video/Slideshow for Thurs. night that is _______ minutes long/______ slides. YOUTH PROGRAM Number Price Total Youth Registration ______ @ $15 _____ (5 to 12 years old) per child SUBTOTAL ______________ Name(s) & Age(s) ______________________________________________________________ Minimum 1.5 hours Parental Chaperone per day Please indicate hours available: Fri ________________________________________ Sat ________________________________________ ROOMATES Roommates ______________________________________________________________ (List the people you have made arrangements with to share a room or you will be placed with others.) CONFERENCE FEES Includes Friday & Saturday workshops, displays, networking, & video session. Final Registration should be postmarked by Oct. 22nd WARNING: Registration is $100 after October 22, 1999!!! Number Price Total ______ @ $60 per person ______ SUBTOTAL ______________ DISPLAY TABLES Check one of the three categories. Number Price Total Agricultural Business ______ @ $30 per table _____ Non-profit ______ @ $15 per table _____ Farmer/CSA group ______ no cost _____ SUBTOTAL ______________ POSTER SESSION Check off if youre interested and circle the appropriate information. __ Im a farmer/ core group member whod like to join the poster session! __ I need 1 2 3 4 poster board(s) @ $6 per board (circle # needed). SUBTOTAL ______________ GRAND TOTAL ______________ Make check payable to Just Food MEAL PREFERENCE Please specify your preference. __Vegan __Vegetarian __Omnivore MAIL THIS FORM TO: Just Food-NECSA II PO Box 1151 New York, NY 10013 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@timber.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 10:25:51 1999 Received: from timber.ces.ncsu.edu (timber.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.35.106]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07123 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majord@localhost) by timber.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01367 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:39:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: timber.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by timber.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01360 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:39:34 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:38:49 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:38:48 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.70] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 083a283c ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:38:40 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991019082647.0089ce50@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:26:47 -0500 To: Subject: Benefit of BT Corn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3273 This is from the ENS's Ameriscan. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/oct99/1999L-10-18-09.html Article reported on below is at http://www.scisoc.org/feature/BtCorn/Top.html If as Munkvold says the 'Debate surrounding the use of genetically modified crops should be based on risk/benefit assessment, including environmental impacts, livestock impacts, and potential human health threats,' I wonder how we can do an honest "risk/benefit assessment" of the existence of other non-target species? How much is a monarch worth? Who gets to play God? Aren't there alternatives like in the cow's milk benefit to feeding milk cows contaminated corn in the first place? And the biggie question, how long will it take with the widespread dispersal of the BT's toxin thoughout the environment for this to become ineffective throught the evolution of resistant pest? Coffee anyone? Mike Miller MODIFIED CORN COULD HAVE HUMAN HEALTH BENEFITS ST. PAUL, Minnesota, October 18, 1999 (ENS) - Controversial genetically modified corn hybrids that produce a substance toxic to insects may protect human health, says a scientist from Iowa State University. Plant pathologist Gary Munkvold says Bt corn, a hybrid engineered to produce the toxic soil bacterium Bacillus thurigiensis, may reduce human exposure to toxins from diseases that attack corn. By reducing insect damage to the corn, the Bt toxin also reduces the plants susceptibility to fungal plant diseases. These fungi produce mycotoxins and aflatoxins that can be dangerous to humans and livestock, whether they are eaten whole or found in milk from cows consuming contaminated corn. "Lower mycotoxin concentrations in Bt corn hybrids clearly represent a benefit to consumers," says Munkvold. "Studies show Bt corn hybrids that control European corn borer damage to kernels usually have very little Fusarium ear rot, and consequently, lower fumonisin concentrations." The use of Bt corn and other modified crops has come under attack this year because of a study showing the Bt toxin may harm insects like monarch butterflies. "Debate surrounding the use of genetically modified crops should be based on risk/benefit assessment, including environmental impacts, livestock impacts, and potential human health threats," says Munkvold. "Consumers and regulatory agencies should consider the food safety and environmental implications of Bt corn when making decisions about its use." Munkvolds article on Bt corn can be found on the American Phytopathological Societys website at: http://www.scisoc.org/feature/BtCorn/Top.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 11:42:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08561 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20354 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:05:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail9.svr.pol.co.uk (mail9.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.22]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20349 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from modem-85.longnose-hawk.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.40.85] helo=dxpvmcng) by mail9.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11dana-00001a-00 for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:03:38 +0100 Message-ID: <003301bf1a43$a3cb3d80$5528893e@dxpvmcng> From: "Chris Batstone" To: Subject: Fw: Organic Dairy Farm research Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:07:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3274 Dear All, I am researching management of high producing cows on organic Dairy farms. I am sponsored by the Nuffield Trust, UK. My own farm and Holstein herd is in conversion to Organic, registered with the Soil Association (UK). I will be travelling in US late Spring 2000, and I would appreciate any suggestions of amenable contacts. Your help would be much appreciated, Chris Batstone West Hill Farm West Down, Ilfracombe, North Devon, UK EX34 8NF email ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07942 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:10:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07930 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTHG48W>; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:02:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "'MatthewR.Snyder'" Subject: FW: $10,000 Steward of the Land Award (fwd) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:02:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3275 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:59:56 -0400 From: Matthew R. Snyder Subject: $10,000 Steward of the Land Award LAST CHANCE TO NOMINATE A FARMER FOR THIS YEARS $10,000 STEWARD OF THE LAND AWARD Deadline is November 1. Contact American Farmland Trust for Nomination Kits With only two weeks remaining before the November 1 deadline, the nomination process for American Farmland Trust's $10,000 Steward of the Land Award is rushing to a close. Farmers and nominators must act now to be considered for the annual award. American Farmland Trust, a national non-profit farmland conservation group, is looking for nominees who use environmentally sound farming practices, work to support policies for farmland protection, and exhibit leadership by protecting their own farm from development. To receive the nomination materials, visit http://www.farmland.org or call (202) 331-7300 ext. 3044. Nominations must be received by mail or fax at AFT's national office by Monday, November 1, at 5 p.m. EST. Be sure to allow time for mail or use an express delivery service! -- end -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Matthew R. Snyder Communications Assistant American Farmland Trust 1200 18th Street NW, Suite 800 Washington, DC 20036 tel: 202.331.7300 x3032 fax: 202.659.8339 web: www.farmland.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 14:07:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12771 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25224 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25217 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11317 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA11851 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:12:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:12:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Fw: Organic Dairy Farm research (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3276 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:24:39 -0000 From: Chris Batstone To: organic@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: Fw: Organic Dairy Farm research I am researching management of high producing cows on organic Dairy farms. I am sponsored by the Nuffield Trust, UK. My own farm and Holstein herd is in conversion to Organic, registered with the Soil Association (UK). I will be travelling in US late Spring 2000, and I would appreciate any suggestions of amenable contacts. Your help would be much appreciated, Chris Batstone West Hill Farm West Down, Ilfracombe, North Devon, UK EX34 8NF email ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25320 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:56:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25273 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08037 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-49.csj.net [12.29.22.49]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16975 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:54:36 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "Sustainable AG list (E-mail)" Subject: FW: Free Range egg nutrition Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:50:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000701bf1a62$cc3c8a20$442dfea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3277 An answer I received from the Poultry med list: Donna Fezler GCR Jacksonville, IL http://www.rhealiving.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Turner [mailto:kturner@akey.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 5:55 AM > To: 'Donna Fezler' > Subject: Free Range > > > Hello Donna, > > In all reality, there is no dietary difference between free > range layers and > cage housing layers. These birds can be fed the same diets. > If someone > gets into the "All-Natural" or "Organic" market, these have dietary > differences, although the restrictions are still very questionable. > > Why do the yolks exhibit a darker color with more taste? > Mainly because the > birds forage. The color in eggs comes from xanthophylls, > which comes mainly > from corn or other sterol sources. In a cage layer the > xanthophylls are > stored in the legs, beak, ear lobes, and over the laying > period the bird > mobilizes these stores to produce the yellow color in the egg (you can > distinguish an old layer by her pale legs and beak). Certain > ingredients > can be added to the diet to increase the dark yolk color, such as corn > gluten meal, alfalfa meal, or marigold petal. These are > often times not > cost effective, so if the consumer does not pay any more for a darker > colored yolk, the producer will not add these ingredients. > On free range, > birds have access to grass and other forages, which contain > sterols and > xanthophylls, so they have a more potent color source > throughout the lay > cycle. Also, birds on free range often times do not lay eggs > as often as > cage laying strains, and therefore the free range birds do > not use up their > body stores of these coloring agents. The taste I would > guess emanates from > the various items consumed by the free range bird that cage > layers do not > have access to, ie., grass, insects, worms, manure, etc. The > increased > shell quality has also been thought to be due to the > decreased rate of lay > in free range birds, which can be due to breed of layer. > > I hope this helps answer your question. Enjoy your $2/dozen > return. The > remainder of the layer industry is presently in the can. > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 15:39:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15162 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25286 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:56:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25262 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08033 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-49.csj.net [12.29.22.49]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16953 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:54:30 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "Sustainable AG list (E-mail)" Subject: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences #3 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:49:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000501bf1a62$c8bb52a0$442dfea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3278 Answer #3 from the poultry med list. Donna Fezler GCR Jacksonville, IL http://www.rhealiving.com > -----Original Message----- > From: KEN ANDERSON [mailto:Ken@poultry.poulsci.ncsu.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 2:36 AM > To: gcr@rhealiving.com > Subject: Re: FW: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences > > > Donna: > > > The differences you have mentioned between free range eggs and > commercially produced eggs, ie. darker color and shell thickness, > are probably true due to two facts. First, the darker color > is due to > the increased consumption of heavily pigmented feed stuffs which > the free range chickens will eat. These include grasses, wild plant > seeds, and insects which have high levels of > 0100,0100,0100Xanthophyls which are > the orange pigments in the feed. These pigments can > actually be > added into commercial diets so that the eggs produced look > identical to free range produced eggs. Second, is the shell > thickness or strength issue. Most free range chickens are those > which produce brown shell eggs, it is widely known that brown > shell eggs have tougher shells. The shell itself is not thicker but > the membranes are thougher and subsequently influence the > impression of stronger shells. > > > One other trait you mentioned was taste of the free range eggs. > There is no difference between the taste or nutritional value of free > range or commercially produced eggs. The impression that the > free range egg has a richer flavor is due to the perception of the > individual eating the egg. The appearance of the egg will influence > the way it tastes. I happen to produce my own eggs since my > daughter has some pet chickens and the eggs from them taste just > like those you buy in the store. Nutritionally eggs are produced by > the hen for the purpose of reproduction. Therefore, since the > development of a chick embryo requires the same nutrients no > matter where the hen produces the egg the nutrients the hen puts > in are the same. > > > I have also seen prices of $4/doz for fertile eggs. The $6/doz for > green Araucana eggs I don't know about. However, nutritionally on > a volume to volume basis there is no nutritional difference between > any of the eggs you mentioned. > > > Ken Anderson > Kenneth E. Anderson, Ph.D. > Associate Professor and Extension Poultry Specialist > Poultry Science Department > North Carolina State University > Scott Hall, Rm. 237 > Box 7608 > Raleigh, NC 27695-7608 > > Office: (919)515-5527 > FAX: (919)515-7070 > > ken_anderson@ncsu.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 15:41:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15176 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25287 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:56:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25260 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08032 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-49.csj.net [12.29.22.49]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA16962 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:54:32 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "Sustainable AG list (E-mail)" Subject: FW: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:49:58 -0500 Message-ID: <000601bf1a62$ca3bd820$442dfea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3279 Another answer from the poultry med list. Donna Fezler GCR Jacksonville, IL http://www.rhealiving.com > -----Original Message----- > From: PLTRYNWS Poultry Health, Production and Management News > [mailto:PLTRYNWS@SDSUVM.SDSTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Robert Plamondon > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 10:44 AM > To: PLTRYNWS@SDSUVM.SDSTATE.EDU > Subject: FW: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences > > > > The sustainable ag list can't help with the egg composition > > difference between true free-range and factory farm eggs. Anybody > > know if there is a nutritional difference? > > I don't know if any work has been done on this since the > 1940s. I didn't > jot down the reference, but in one poultry textbook from the > 1940s it was > reported that birds on pasture or other range with lots of > green feed laid > eggs with elevated levels of many vitamins, including vitamin > A and most of > the B vitamins. Many of these were doubled compared to hens kept in > confinement. I don't remember if vitamin D was elevated in > the egg or not, > but of course the birds use ultraviolet light to synthesize D. (It's > tempting to speculate that vitamin D levels are responsible > for thicker > eggshells, but there are other possibilities, including that > the eggshells > aren't thicker at all -- you just see fewer checks because > direct-to-consumer eggs don't get banged around as much as ordinary > commercial eggs.) > > Because hens like lush green grass, and lush green grass is full of > linolenic acids (or so I'm told by the beef graziers), I wonder if > free-range eggs aren't just as good in that respect as those > of hens fed > special Omega-3 diets. > > The other thing of note about putting chickens out on range is that > cannibalism and coccidiosis problems tend to vanish with > free-range birds > with access to range. This was reported in all the old > poultry books, back > when everyone had tried it both ways. > > Since the table in that 1940s book whose name I can't recall > had exactly the > same nutritional values for confined hens as are on the > "Nutrition Facts" > panel of an egg carton, I wonder just how OLD most of the basic > egg-nutrition research is. Not that being old makes it > invalid, but our > concerns have shifted. > > There are a lot of opportunities for inexpensive research > here, I would > think, especially if we ditch the doomed-to-disappointment > yarded-house > model and stick portable colony houses onto existing cow and > sheep pastures. > > When you expect the hens to pay for all the land and fencing > themselves, the > economics only make sense if you shoehorn in too many hens > per acre. If > they're sharing it with ruminants they don't have to pay all the rent > themselves, and overstocking means they wreck the pasture for > everybody > else. By my calculations, adding 50 hens per acre to > existing pastures > ought to bring 1000 dozen eggs and $1000 profit per acre per > year and leave > the pasture and ruminants in better shape than before. This > doesn't even > count the four tons of manure per acre -- manure of a type > that's not only > good for the grass, but is often used as livestock feed. Nor > does it count > the fly- and parasite-control provided by the bug-hungry > hens. Adding $1000 > per-acre profit is something that can get a grazier's > attention, as is the > idea of having a product that can be sold every day of the > year. Another > thing that makes the concept attractive is that most graziers > have more > pasture than they'd ever put chickens on, so if there's ever > a problem with > parasite buildup they have clean range they can shift the > birds to. People > with "free-range" operations built around permanent houses > tend to be put > out of business by pathogen buildup because they can't solve > their problems > with a tractor and a tow chain. > > The opportunities for cut-rate research are almost endless, > since you start > by using a different department's pastures -- and budget, if > you get the > proposal right! > > -- Robert > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 15:42:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15180 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23696 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:45:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23691 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:45:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.013B9F49@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:43:04 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 19 Oct 99 14:43:04 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 19 Oct 99 14:42:36 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:42:30 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: mulch in the sahel In-reply-to: <199910182124.RAA18159@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3280 Bargyla wrote: > Again, some good ideas, but there are reasons why they might not work. In the > arid inland region, where our family lived for some years, it is very hot and > the climate not conducive to labor. (snip) > But never, ever did anyone copy his garden. They had free access to all the > land and the river water, but they did not do anything about it. When starvation > years came, they looked so thin you could see the spine from the front of them. > It was hot, and just too tiring to carry water, or to exert themeselves. They > never got any benefit from my father's example. (snip) > Gathering leaves, mounding to make raised beds, > wouldnot ever be done--just too much effort. > This sounds depressing and negative, but I saw similar phenomena as a Peace Corps volunteer in the Dominican Republic. No matter where you are in the world, you have some basic hurdles to jump which have to do with working with that most confounded of species: humans. It is not just the idiosyncracies of individuals which come up, but strange, unforseen culture clashes pop up when you least expect them. For example, where I worked (and have reason to believe this is more wide spread) there is a very deeply rooted idea about "clean" and "dirty." Land with anything other than the target plant (crop in the fields or ornamental at home) is "dirty." Mulch and intercropping clearly fell into the "dirty" category, and "dirty" is unequivocably "bad." When one looks at the RoudnUp fields of modern agriculture, it is not hard to see where this sort of thinking comes from or to dismiss it as just peculiarities of "those" people. Nevertheless, it is a real barrier. I certainly wish the Peace Corps volunteer in the Sahel much luck with these barriers. Anita Anita Graf 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 15:49:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15339 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01040 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:09:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00961 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08847 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPBKXR2F; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:01:33 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:39:21 -0700 Subject: re: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences Message-ID: <19991019.114528.4046.4.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,20,22-24 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3281 Donna commented: I came across an article about some small scale farmers getting $2.00 per dozen for unfertilized free range, $4 for fertilized and $6 for green Araucana eggs. I know the $2 price is accurate, but the other two are a shock I have 12 pastured chickens (0.6 acre for 1 rooster and 11 hens is almost free range) which get organic grains to supplement what they can pick up by foraging. (In the winter they get cooked soy beans, too.) I sell the eggs for $3.00/doz and it doesn't really cover feed costs since I can't find organic feed locally anywhere but at our food co-op. Still, one customer voluntarily pays $4.00 because she feels they are worth every cent. A new customer moaned that $3.00 was "pretty steep" and I figured she wouldn't be back even though she is allergic to many antibiotics and can't eat grocery store eggs. Two days later, she was back for another dozen! Still another customer also can't eat grocery store eggs and is happy to buy about a dozen a week. All my customers have the inconvenience of having to drive to my place which is off the beaten track and return the egg cartons so I can reuse them. The one time I had excess eggs, our food co-op was happy to buy them "wholesale" for $2.00. Sorry, I don't have data on nutrition, but the flavor wins over even those customers who CAN eat grocery store eggs. Happy egg collecting. Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 16:08:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15670 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07484 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:24:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07472 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09110 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id PAA14621; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380CC5D3.5F1F26EA@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:26:12 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Diver , Sustainable Ag Subject: Re:Organic Landscape Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3282 First attempt had line wrap problems. I'll try again: I think Ted and Ann are both right. I think that the US could be all-organic, (so did Langley, see below), but I also think that time may be passed. I feel that not only are competent farmers required, but equally competent extension agents/specialists are needed. This is a woefully neglected area. I think that even competent/good conventional farmers would be hesitant to throw their hat into the organic ring. It's a gamble. It's a complete unknown. And they would go it alone. . .There is no infrastructure dedicated to helping organic/transitional farmers! If a conventional farmer has a problem (with a disease or nutrient deficiency) he could call up his local Ext. Agent and he would be told what to spray to kill the bug, or elevate the deficiency. The other night on the new I saw something about "the Freedom to Farm" Act. About how everyone was going to move away from Federal subsidies, and produce different commodities. Well, growers in this Midwest area (not sure where exactly) was still growing corn, and soybeans, just like they (and their neighbors) always had. Prices have dropped through the floor, and more subsidies are being used. I think this is another side to the problem. It's a gamble to change what you know and grow. Maybe I'm way off-base (it's certainly happened before), but in these Midwestern areas, the Ext. Agent/specialist may not be comfortable with different commodities either. . . But. . . back to organic vs. conventional. . . I think the yield difference is more related to soil management/micro-macro- nutrient content, the same way that food quality is related to these elements. When we apply organic amendments and synthetic fertilizers to the same fields (different plots, of course), we had no significant yield differences, except in fields where disease was present. In those fields/plots, soils with organic amendments usually had lower disease, and produced more tomatoes. Fertilizer plots had weights of 236 lbs. in surface mulched (SM) plots, while tilled plots with fertilizer yielded only 67.7 lbs. per plot. Plots with composted cotton gin trash yielded the highest overall amounts, with 187.9 lbs. per SM plot, and 135.4 lbs. per tilled plot. Plots containing hog waste offered 156.6 lbs. per SM plot, and 108.3 lbs. per tilled plot. (BTW, my dissertation will be published before any of the three papers that will come from my diss.) One of the amendments used came from livestock, one was a green manure, the other was an agricultural waste product, composted cotton gin trash (CGT). The CGT gave the best disease suppression, highest overall yields (an average of 161.7 lbs/plot, while fertilizer gave only 151.9 lbs/plot), was free, and reduced environmental pollution. (What was the cotton Gin going to do with it?) The thing that's important is that this information has to make it into the hands of those that can use it! If we can convince growers that not only will organic amendments grow food, but they can reduce disease, and be sold at a higher price, then I think even the most recalcitrant grower will think twice about organic farming. . . okay, I'm stepping off my soapbox, besides I'm preachin' to the choir here. (I was trying to think of another clich I could throw in, but drew a blank. . . ) . . . Let me know if I'm wrong. . . Russ Here are some references that I've used in a paper that is planning to be published sometime this (make that the next) millennium: Klonsky, K. and L. Tourte 1998. Organic agricultural production in the United States: debates and directions. Amer. J. Agr. Econ. 80: 1119-1124. Langley, J. A., E. O. Heady and K. D. Olson 1983. The macroimplications of a complete transformation of U.S. agricultural production to organic farming practices. Agric. Ecos. Environ. 10: 323-333. Lohr, L. 1998. Implications of organic certification for market structure and trade. Amer. J. Agr. Econ. 80: 1125-1133. Thompson 1998. Consumer demand for organic foods: What we know and what we need to know. Amer. J. Agr. Econ. 80: 1113-1118. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 16:12:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15751 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08392 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:29:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA08387 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id OAA20602; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:27:52 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma019275; Tue, 19 Oct 99 14:27:02 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:27:02 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FF9E@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:27:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3283 Mike, > I wonder how we can do an honest "risk/benefit assessment" of > the existence of other non-target species? How much is a > monarch worth? Who gets to play God? As difficult as it is, public debate on GMO use, and other agricultural issues is essential in order to formulate public policy. It is necessary to come to some decision about how much monarch butterflies, etc. are worth. There is no technical answer about the value of a butterfly. But technical information can facilitate decisions by providing, for example, estimates of monarch death rates under various scenarios. > Aren't there alternatives like in the cow's milk benefit to > feeding milk cows contaminated corn in the first place? Everything has a cost, and to avoid feeding mycotoxin-containing corn requires, first, testing it, and if contaminated, selling the corn at a reduced price. To make informed decisions about these things, we require technical information, such as expected increase in milk price to control the risk versus cost of genetic solutions. > And the biggie question, how long will it take with the > widespread dispersal of the BT's toxin thoughout the > environment for this to become ineffective throught the > evolution of resistant pest? I think for most people, this is not an important question compared to issues of food safety. > Coffee anyone? Are you alluding to the risks of drinking coffee ;-) or pooh-poohing the idea of risk-benefit analysis? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 16:36:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16357 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12011 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:49:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11999 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:59:28 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'Wilson, Dale'" Cc: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:59:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3284 i'm not sure exactly what dale intends by "most people" . . . while we have some measures of public concern about gmo's, we do not have very good measures of people's bases for their concern or for their concerns specifically about Bt gmo's . . . but if we set aside literal interpretations of "most people" and look at the public discourse about Bt gmo's, then pest resistance has been very prominent -- in usepa's approval (see mandated refugia), in academic reviews (see north central research committee 205), and in activist literature (see e.g. rissler and whalon report from union of concerned scientists) cheers, craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Wilson, Dale[SMTP:WILSONDO@phibred.com] > Sent: Tuesday 19 October 1999 3:27 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Cc: 'mmiller@pcsia.com' > Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn > . . . > > And the biggie question, how long will it take with the widespread > dispersal of the BT's toxin thoughout the environment for this to become > ineffective throught the evolution of resistant pest? > > I think for most people, this is not an important question compared to > issues of food safety. > . . . > Dale > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From info@beyondorganic.com Tue Oct 19 17:40:45 1999 Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17925 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (ncs-68.nbn.com [199.4.66.68]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id OAA22820; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Cc: "Albert Straus" , "Vivien Straus" Subject: RE: Organic Dairy Farm research (fwd) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:36:53 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3285 Recommend that you contact my brother, Albert Straus, at Straus Family Creamery - was the first organic dairy in the western United States. Albert Straus P.O. Box 768 Marshall, CA 94940 www.strausmilk.com albert@strausmilk.com tel 415-663-5464 fax 415-663-5465 ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:24:39 -0000 From: Chris Batstone To: organic@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: Fw: Organic Dairy Farm research I am researching management of high producing cows on organic Dairy farms. I am sponsored by the Nuffield Trust, UK. My own farm and Holstein herd is in conversion to Organic, registered with the Soil Association (UK). I will be travelling in US late Spring 2000, and I would appreciate any suggestions of amenable contacts. Your help would be much appreciated, Chris Batstone West Hill Farm West Down, Ilfracombe, North Devon, UK EX34 8NF email ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09868 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:54:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09848 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from river.netrover.com (river.netrover.com [204.50.56.9]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12404 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from s1h3p8 (cust174.tnt2.dial.tor2.uunet.ca [209.47.187.174]) by river.netrover.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA17540 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:53:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-From: jgold@netrover.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991019173449.007ca4d0@mail.netrover.com> X-Sender: jgold@mail.netrover.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:34:49 -0400 To: From: Jeff Gold Subject: Re: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences In-Reply-To: <000401bf1978$85c03780$442dfea9@donna> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3286 Donna, I have kept free range poultry of all descriptions for many years. The chicken/duck/rhea symbiosis is fascinating. Duck eggs are prized by anyone of Oriental descent and are excellent in any kind of baking, with superior leavening ability over chicken eggs. Jeff. At 09:53 AM 10/18/99 -0500, Donna Fezler wrote: >Can someone explain the compositional difference between true free-range >chicken eggs and grocery store eggs? One can observe the greater intensity >of the orange color, the better flavor and the much thicker shell in the >free-range egg, but are they really more nutritious? > >I came across an article about some small scale farmers getting $2.00 per >dozen for unfertilized free range, $4 for fertilized and $6 for green >Araucana eggs. I know the $2 price is accurate, but the other two are a >shock. > >I have 35 free-range chickens and 11 ducks prowling 4 wooded/pastured acres, >2 of which are an enclosed rhea pen. (Why 35 chickens? I raise rheas which >are very fragile as chicks and didn't expect the chickens all to live. They >did. I also wanted to try pastured poultry but never got the pens built and >then the kids became animal rights activists.) > >In the meantime, I have discovered the chickens keep the rhea pasture >immaculate by scratching and probably finding food in the manure piles. I >have two multi-acre rhea pens. The food consumption per pound of animal in >the rhea/chicken pen is about 37% less than the pen with better grazing but >just housing rheas and a guard (another topic-that title is disputable) >llama. > >Although conventional wisdom says we should not combine these avian species >on the same farm, it appears to have a symbiotic effect. The rheas in the >chicken/rhea pen have grown faster and neither chickens nor rheas have >feather lice, which are considered ubiquitous in ratites. The noisy ducks >seem to be serving as a predator alarm system because this is the first year >I have had no loss to predators in that pen. Maybe we just got lucky, but >so far this looks like it could be a good sustainable ag model. > >It didn't take much math to figure out that I could have healthier birds, >cleaner pastures, and a source of income from eggs to pay for everyone's >feed bill from the free-range chicken eggs. > >So, other than the knowledge that the eggs are from a natural clean >environment and taste better, what other justification is there to support >the price? > >Is there a market and price for edible duck eggs? > >Donna Fezler >GCR >Jacksonville, IL > >http://www.rhealiving.com > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 18:25:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18645 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01371 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:42:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01287 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:42:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from business (ncs-68.nbn.com [199.4.66.68]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with SMTP id OAA22820; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Michael Straus" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , Cc: "Albert Straus" , "Vivien Straus" Subject: RE: Organic Dairy Farm research (fwd) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:36:53 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3287 Recommend that you contact my brother, Albert Straus, at Straus Family Creamery - was the first organic dairy in the western United States. Albert Straus P.O. Box 768 Marshall, CA 94940 www.strausmilk.com albert@strausmilk.com tel 415-663-5464 fax 415-663-5465 ++++++++++++++ Michael Straus Beyond Organic - Innovative Marketing for Progressive Agriculture 22890 Highway 1, Marshall, CA 94940 USA voice mail: 415-289-6958; fax: 415-663-8079 www.beyondorganic.com; info@beyondorganic.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:24:39 -0000 From: Chris Batstone To: organic@sunsite.unc.edu Subject: Fw: Organic Dairy Farm research I am researching management of high producing cows on organic Dairy farms. I am sponsored by the Nuffield Trust, UK. My own farm and Holstein herd is in conversion to Organic, registered with the Soil Association (UK). I will be travelling in US late Spring 2000, and I would appreciate any suggestions of amenable contacts. Your help would be much appreciated, Chris Batstone West Hill Farm West Down, Ilfracombe, North Devon, UK EX34 8NF email ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09703 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:53:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gw2.dnepr.net (CoreGW2-TBone.dnepr.net [195.24.156.97]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09688 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:53:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.dnepr.net (Stty2.dnepr.net [195.24.156.82]) by gw2.dnepr.net (8.8.8/8.6.18/01) with ESMTP id AAA13293 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:51:23 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <380CE86E.55B6FBC2@mail.dnepr.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:53:50 +0300 From: vera X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3288 Two questions: 1. What % of swine production in the US is in outdoor swine systems? 2. I have received information that Greg Gunthorp is knowledgeable in outdoor pig production. Does anyone have an email address for Greg Gunthorp? Nila Martyniuk Majskoye Farm UKRAINE fax: 380 562 37 04 47 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 20:54:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20329 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23174 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:55:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23063 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14231 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:54:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPB4C68Y; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:48:29 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:46:13 -0700 Subject: mulch in the sahel...raised vs. sunken beds Message-ID: <19991019.163225.3502.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,16-17 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3289 Bargyla wrote: (snip) > Gathering leaves, mounding to make raised beds, > wouldnot ever be done--just too much effort. (snip) It sounds to me like the sahel is a desert or at least arid land. If so, I wouldn't suggest a raised bed. Sunken beds work so much better where water is hard to come by. Even the Master Gardeners in Phoenix and Tucson can quote the reason why serious gardeners MUST have raised beds; to get the soil to dry out and warm up faster in the spring. Too bad that some of them haven't figured out that drying out and warming up faster in the spring ISN'T desirable in the desert. I am constantly amazed when someone here in the desert talks about gardening plans and says something like, "We're going the whole nine yards--raised beds and everything--just as soon as we can get them built." That means they've read all the books written in other parts of the country. I agree with Dennis' recommendation of Bill Mollison's Permaculture book. Best regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 20:56:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20366 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24656 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:57:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24554 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14257 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPB4C69R; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:48:29 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:27:16 -0700 Subject: frost on tomatoes Message-ID: <19991019.163225.3502.2.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8,14,20,25-26,32-33 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3290 We had a disappointing tomato-growing season this summer. (If I hadn't over-planted with the idea of selling lots, I wouldn't have had nearly enough to store for us.) I blame it on our cool summer and fall. I started measuring the overnight lows early in September and the temperatures in the tomato patch were routinely getting down into the 40's back then. (The tomatoes were ripening, but slowly). Last year I was able to calibrate all my min/max thermometers and only one of them read 2 degrees low. Even so, last year, I had readings as low as 27 degrees with no frost damage on tomato plants. Yesterday morning, I scraped the frost off the thermometer to read 23 degrees F. Strawberry leaves beside the thermometer were fringed with frost, so I'm convinced my thermometer wasn't reading way low. Less than 5 feet away I had tomatoes partly covered but even the uncovered portions showed no frost damage. In fact, later in the day I searched the entire garden and couldn't find ANY frost damage at all. I'm gardening in a frost pocket (Yes, before my Permaculture friends ask, I've read and reread what Bill Mollison says on the subject in the Permaculture Design Manual, but I read it after we purchased the land! I'm working to mitigate the problem.) Another part of my garden (uphill) is a little warmer; it was 32 degrees yesterday--also with no damage yesterday. This morning, the strawberry patch was 21 degrees and frost-tender plants throughout the garden showed damage except for those which were covered. Uphill, it was 30 degrees and (except for one basil plant a little further uphill) tomatoes and basil up there were frost killed. QUESTION: Why can some of my tomatoes withstand down to 21 degrees while other (the same mix of varieties) succome to 30 degrees? One possibility is that yesterday's low may have been of much shorter duration than this morning's. Also the humidity may have had an effect; yesterday, we had lots of frost but this morning, with its lower readings, there was no sign of frost anywhere. Any ideas out there? I'm confused. Best Regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 22:24:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21413 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:24:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25648 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:38:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25567 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.54] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:31:19 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:27:02 -0400 Subject: Free Range Eggs From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991020013119288.AAG347@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.54]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3291 > > I came across an article about some small scale farmers getting $2.00 per >>dozen for unfertilized free range, $4 for fertilized and $6 for green >>Araucana eggs. I know the $2 price is accurate, but the other two are a >>shock. >> I checked with the largest natural foods store in my region of Virginia, and they will willingly pay $2 per dozen for real free range eggs. On the other hand, they don't pay extra for "fertilized" eggs, and the idea of green eggs being worth $6 per dozen was somewhat amusing to them. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 19 22:24:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21423 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25673 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:38:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25613 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.54] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:31:22 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:39:49 -0400 Subject: Outdoor swine systems From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991020013122733.AAK347@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.54]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3292 > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:53:50 +0300 > From: vera > Subject: question > > Two questions: > 1. What % of swine production in the US is in outdoor swine systems? > 2. I have received information that Greg Gunthorp is knowledgeable in > outdoor pig production. Does anyone have an email address for Greg > Gunthorp? > > Nila Martyniuk > Majskoye Farm > UKRAINE > fax: 380 562 37 04 47 To Nila Martyniuk, Greg Gunthorp is usually on this list, or you can try him at hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com Regards, Andy Lee To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 00:49:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22884 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:49:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA07162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:23:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07154 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:23:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17981 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-15-8.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.248]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08275; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:22:00 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01bf1ab4$cded9c40$f85f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: , "Sustainable AG list (E-mail)" Cc: Subject: Re: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences #3 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:36:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3293 Does our tax dollars help support this industry based "information" that free range eggs do not taste any different? Some days they say that free range eggs have a wild taste and people do not like that. When it comes to discussing health benefits (such as increased vitamins/minerals or CLA content, etc) they always say the eggs are identical to caged eggs. Now are we really naive enough to believe that those bright orange yolks that stand right up don't taste any different? How do they explain the co-hesiveness of the free range eggs? What are they smoking in their pipe up their at the land grant in NC? I see about half a dozen pastry chefs each week that would get a huge laugh out of the poultry extension specialists comments. The true proof is in the pasta, merangues, or ice cream. Not to even mention the extra effort to scramble them for the best tasting breakfast around. Before I discredit them too much I should attempt to explain their discrepency in not being able to taste the difference. It probably boils down to the USDA definition of free range eggs. Its possible to put hens in barns with "proper" square footage and call the eggs free range. We all know that is not free range and I wouldn't doubt for a minute that eggs from uncaged hens don't taste much different than caged eggs when they are raised in identical barns. It is shame that we have reduced agriculture to the production of bland, lifeless commodities such as caged eggs and then try to convince people that these products are identical to the products from more natural and humane production systems. Its even more pathetic that the public believes it because of a very well orchastrated speech sponsored by our tax dollars. Fresh air and sunshine let alone green grass drastically change the flavor and nutrient content of foods. I think Wisconsin University did some work on CLA's in milk and eggs. I also think I am paying my hog tax (checkoff) to fund research at Iowa state to figure out what to put in hogs diets to increase CLA's in pork as this supposedly increases shelf life. I would suggest green grass, clover, and alfalfa. I don't think that will grow on their concrete in their sunless barns. :) Isn't it amaizing how the problems just disapear when we start to realise there is a bigger picture? Cages and concrete cause animal and human health problems. The realistic alternative should be to get rid of the cages and concrete not figure out how to spend more money to cure the ever increasing problems that un-natural systems create. What is the odds American livestock production ever pursues a truly sustainable direction? Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp I was free range when free range wasn't cool! -----Original Message----- From: Donna Fezler To: Sustainable AG list (E-mail) Date: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 2:25 PM Subject: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences #3 >Answer #3 from the poultry med list. > >Donna Fezler >GCR >Jacksonville, IL > >http://www.rhealiving.com > >> the free range chickens will eat. These include grasses, wild plant >> seeds, and insects which have high levels of >> 0100,0100,0100Xanthophyls which are >> the orange pigments in the feed. These pigments can >> actually be >> added into commercial diets so that the eggs produced look >> identical to free range produced eggs. Second, is the shell >> thickness or strength issue. Most free range chickens are those >> which produce brown shell eggs, it is widely known that brown >> shell eggs have tougher shells. The shell itself is not thicker but >> the membranes are thougher and subsequently influence the >> impression of stronger shells. >> >> >> One other trait you mentioned was taste of the free range eggs. >> There is no difference between the taste or nutritional value of free >> range or commercially produced eggs. The impression that the >> free range egg has a richer flavor is due to the perception of the >> individual eating the egg. The appearance of the egg will influence >> the way it tastes. I happen to produce my own eggs since my >> daughter has some pet chickens and the eggs from them taste just >> like those you buy in the store. Nutritionally eggs are produced by >> the hen for the purpose of reproduction. Therefore, since the >> development of a chick embryo requires the same nutrients no >> matter where the hen produces the egg the nutrients the hen puts >> in are the same. >> >> > I have also seen prices of $4/doz for fertile eggs. The $6/doz for >> green Araucana eggs I don't know about. However, nutritionally on >> a volume to volume basis there is no nutritional difference between >> any of the eggs you mentioned. >> > >> Ken Anderson > >> Kenneth E. Anderson, Ph.D. >> Associate Professor and Extension Poultry Specialist >> Poultry Science Department >> North Carolina State University >> Scott Hall, Rm. 237 >> Box 7608 >> Raleigh, NC 27695-7608 >> >> Office: (919)515-5527 >> FAX: (919)515-7070 >> >> ken_anderson@ncsu.edu >> >> > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 01:10:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23498 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:10:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25788 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:52:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gw2.dnepr.net (CoreGW2-TBone.dnepr.net [195.24.156.97]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25701 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.dnepr.net (Sttyg.dnepr.net [195.24.156.192]) by gw2.dnepr.net (8.8.8/8.6.18/01) with ESMTP id HAA26539 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:50:19 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <380D4A9D.A2007291@mail.dnepr.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:52:45 +0300 From: vera X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: waterers freezing in Ukraine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3294 We are raising pigs outdoors (1,700 with 150 of these sows) and intend to increase the ehrd to 5,000 over time. We are raising Holstein dairy cows with the intention to increase to 2010 milking cows ( we have 5 groups of 50 Holstein each today ) We keep our dairy in free stalls . We have not solved the problem of how to keep the water in the waterers from freezing in the hoop shelters for the pigs and the free stall barns for the dairy. Our temperatures drop to minus 34 degrees. Please make suggestions. Please provide contact numbers for manufacturers ( 800 telephone numbers do not work here in Ukraine ) of waterers that will work in freezing temperatures or share with us your makeshift approaches to keeping water in the waterers from freezing The dairy are kept in groups of 50 therefore a waterer of a size to satisfy the drinking needs of 50 Hosltein is desirable. We are still experimenting with numbers of pigs that we intend to group so variants on waterer sizes will be needed. Thank-you, Nila Martyniuk MAJSKOYE FARM Ukraine 380 562 37 04 47 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 01:16:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23568 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25078 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:51:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24948 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18369 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from eskimo.com (jfawcett@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26497; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380D4A8D.C2E3AA74@eskimo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:52:30 -0700 From: John Fawcett-Long Reply-To: cdvergst@fone.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, wsare-ext@ucdavis.edu, westernsawg@onenw.org, jfawcett@eskimo.com, newsletter@reeusda.gov, caeseditor@agdean.ucdavis.edu, davidz@ncatfyv.uark.edu, leocenter@iastate.edu, hawiaa@access.digex.net, gabriele.kassner@ucop.edu, brad.fisher@usda.gov, Western SAWG CC: Beth-Dethlefsen@nacdnet.org Subject: Wealth & Sustainability Workshop - Allan Savory Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3295 Hi folks, I would like to invite you to attend the "Four Corners Wealth and Sustaniability Workshop" featuring Allan Savory on Saturday November 13th at beautiful Echo Basin Ranch just east of Mancos CO. The purpose of the workshop is to inspire creative thinking, networking, and problem solving concerning the well being of our communites and gatehr new insights into the sustainable use of the human, financial, and natural resources we depend on. Allan Savory and co-author Jody Butterfield will speak on their newly released text book Holistic Management: A New Framework for Decision Making. The book is based on the conclusion that human decision making is the fundamental cause of many of our environmental, social, and economic problems. Savory will describe a well tested, practical approach to decision making called Holistic Management that is helping people from all walks of life manage for sustainability while achieving profitability and a high quality of life. Special focus will be placed on how Holistic Management is used in business, agriculture, community organizations, and the home. There will be opportunity for interactive discussions. Networking and community building will be facilitated among participants. This will be a great to meet others from around the west who share your concerns about community, the environment, family values, agricultural viability, sound government, quality of life and making a living in the west. You will learn about: The latest developments in Holistic Management and its application in business, community organizations, government, agriculture, and family. How profitability and sustainability go together. How to improve your decision making and move away from crisis management. What you can do enhance the productivity of businesses, farms and ranches, and organizations. How to put an end to crisis management and endless conflicts over social and environmental issues. And more. Cost of the workshop is $80 per individual, $130 per couple, and $30 per student. The fee includes a full day workshop, lunch, entertainment and a book signing session. Group discounts are available. Accommodations are available at Echo Basin Ranch and in close by towns. Air service is available to Durango or Cortez in Colorado and to Farmington New Mexico. For details contact: Cindy Dvergsten Whole New Concepts 970-882-4222 or e-mail cdvergst@fone.net This workshop is sponsored by the Dolores, Dove Creek and Mancos SCD's, Rocky Mountain Farmers Union, Murphy's Chow, Jarmon Irrigation, Fox Fire Farm Natural Lamb, The Pinion Project and others To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 01:22:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23612 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29311 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:00:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29244 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:00:21 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:58:43 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:58:42 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.70] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1755223c ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:58:34 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991019234640.00898780@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:46:40 -0500 To: Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3296 Dale, I agree that public dialog is needed to understand and assess these issues. We all have to take that long hard look to understand the benefits and costs of any new technology. This article points to what I think could be a positive secondary benefit of BT corn. But then I have to ask myself what are the costs and are there other ways to accomplish the same goals. This is the source of the musings about dairy cows. Do we even have to feed dairy cows corn at all? When I was young and would visit my aunt's farm during the summers, I seem to recall that she fed the milk cows oats at least during milking. ( I could be all wet on this as that was a long time ago and in a galaxy far away.) As for the food safety aspect of mycotoxin-containing corn, I suspect this problem has been around a long time. What did we do to address this before BT corn? I know that new pests are being introduced due to global travel/trade and this maybe the case here but this particular aspect of the report seems to me to be a "solution" looking for a "problem". I am still concerned about the rapid development of BT resistant pests from large scale planting of BT crops. Evolution is still going on with no respect to our current political/religious thought. We will have to disagree on the importance of this one. Your reaction to my "coffee anyone" comment shows how important this type of dialogue is. There was no hidden meaning intended. I just wished to suggest that we should give this (and other) topics thoughtful consideration which I sometime do over a cup of coffee. Mike, riding a new bike, Miller (I can identify with your Comprehending Engineers post) >To: MMiller >From: WILSONDO@phibred.com >Date: 19 Oct 99 14:28:16 -0600 >Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn > > >Mike, > >> I wonder how we can do an honest "risk/benefit assessment" of >> the existence of other non-target species? How much is a >> monarch worth? Who gets to play God? > >As difficult as it is, public debate on GMO use, and other agricultural >issues is essential in order to formulate public policy. It is necessary to >come to some decision about how much monarch butterflies, etc. are worth. >There is no technical answer about the value of a butterfly. But technical >information can facilitate decisions by providing, for example, estimates of >monarch death rates under various scenarios. > >> Aren't there alternatives like in the cow's milk benefit to >> feeding milk cows contaminated corn in the first place? > >Everything has a cost, and to avoid feeding mycotoxin-containing corn >requires, first, testing it, and if contaminated, selling the corn at a >reduced price. To make informed decisions about these things, we require >technical information, such as expected increase in milk price to control >the risk versus cost of genetic solutions. > >> And the biggie question, how long will it take with the >> widespread dispersal of the BT's toxin thoughout the >> environment for this to become ineffective throught the >> evolution of resistant pest? > >I think for most people, this is not an important question compared to >issues of food safety. > >> Coffee anyone? > >Are you alluding to the risks of drinking coffee ;-) or pooh-poohing the >idea of risk-benefit analysis? > >Dale > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 01:33:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23744 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA08956 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:17:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08906 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-15-8.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.248]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA09647; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:15:36 -0500 Message-ID: <001701bf1abc$45d62860$f85f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "vera" , Subject: Re: waterers freezing in Ukraine Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:30:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3297 How deep are your waterlines? What is your ground water tempature? What are you using for water now? Is electricity an option or does it have to be energy free? Greg Gunthorp -----Original Message----- From: vera To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 12:04 AM Subject: waterers freezing in Ukraine >We are raising pigs outdoors (1,700 with 150 of these sows) and intend >to increase the ehrd to 5,000 over time. >We are raising Holstein dairy cows with the intention to increase to >2010 milking cows ( we have 5 groups of 50 Holstein each today ) We keep >our dairy in free stalls . > > We have not solved the problem of how to keep the water in the >waterers from freezing in the hoop shelters for the pigs and the free >stall barns for the dairy. > > Our temperatures drop to minus 34 degrees. > >Please make suggestions. Please provide contact numbers for >manufacturers ( 800 telephone numbers do not work here in Ukraine ) of >waterers that will work in freezing temperatures or share with us your >makeshift approaches to keeping water in the waterers from freezing > > The dairy are kept in groups of 50 therefore a waterer of a size to >satisfy the drinking needs of 50 Hosltein is desirable. > > We are still experimenting with numbers of pigs that we intend to >group so variants on waterer sizes will be needed. > >Thank-you, >Nila Martyniuk >MAJSKOYE FARM >Ukraine >380 562 37 04 47 > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 02:01:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23953 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA17860 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:31:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17737 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:31:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19013 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 01:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.47.160.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.47.160]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09273; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380D5137.302BE60D@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:20:55 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edna M Weigel CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: mulch in the sahel...raised vs. sunken beds References: <19991019.163225.3502.1.eweigel@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3298 I mentioned raised beds only because that was one of the things someone brought up, apparently from Mollison's work. No, my father built his beds RIGHT beside the river, in the arid country. He dug out land and used that to make a low all, berm maybe it should be called, right on the edge of the river. So all his planting soil was really lower than the river level. It was there that he made the raised beds, so I suppose one could call them lowered raised beds !! No, he did not make raised beds on the ordinary level, which would indeed be, as you said, too dry for a raised bed there. For trees, like fruit trees, he dug, at that same level, down deep to make a cone-shaped hole, the point of the cone way down deep, and the top of the cone at the garden level. At the deep bottom he planted the tree. Then around the periphery of the top of the hole, the soil level, he inserted cuttings at an angle so that when rooted they would grow inwardly, over the hole opening. They would shade the growing tree. It was really not country. Edna M Weigel wrote: > Bargyla wrote: > (snip) > > Gathering leaves, mounding to make raised beds, > > wouldnot ever be done--just too much effort. > (snip) > It sounds to me like the sahel is a desert or at least arid land. > If so, I wouldn't suggest a raised bed. Sunken beds work so much better > where water is hard to come by. Even the Master Gardeners in Phoenix and > Tucson can quote the reason why serious gardeners MUST have raised beds; > to get the soil to dry out and warm up faster in the spring. Too bad > that some of them haven't figured out that drying out and warming up > faster in the spring ISN'T desirable in the desert. I am constantly > amazed when someone here in the desert talks about gardening plans and > says something like, "We're going the whole nine yards--raised beds and > everything--just as soon as we can get them built." That means they've > read all the books written in other parts of the country. I agree with > Dennis' recommendation of Bill Mollison's Permaculture book. > Best regards, Edna > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Oct 19 22:55:36 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21785 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28771 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:33:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from igcb.igc.org (igcb.igc.org [192.82.108.46]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28751 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:33:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cdp.igc.apc.org (IDENT:root@cdp.igc.org [192.82.108.1]) by igcb.igc.org (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA13664; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from notes@localhost) by cdp.igc.apc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19274; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:48:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Conference: panna.panups X-Conference: panna.panups From: panupdates@igc.apc.org Subject: PANUPS: Monsanto: No Terminator To: panups@igc.apc.org Message-ID: X-Gateway: conf2mail@igc.apc.org Lines: 99 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3299 =========================================== P A N U P S Pesticide Action Network Updates Service =========================================== Monsanto Won't Commercialize Terminator October 19, 1999 Following 18 months of controversy and intense popular opposition around the world, Monsanto CEO Robert B. Shapiro has advised Gordon Conway, President of the Rockefeller Foundation, that Monsanto is abandoning plans to commercialize Terminator technology (a genetically engineered trait that causes crop seed to become sterile at harvest time). However, the company says it will continue to pursue closely related research targets that could allow Monsanto to switch on or off other genetic traits vital to a crop's productivity. Terminator became a public relations disaster for Monsanto when the company made a bid to acquire Delta & Pine Land Seed Company in May 1998. Delta & Pine Land co-owns the "prototype" Terminator patent with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). The Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI) initially identified the patent on seed sterilization and launched a campaign in which over 10,000 individuals from 71 countries wrote letters of protest to the UN Food and Agriculture Organization and the USDA. "Monsanto would never have abandoned the profit-generating potential of sterile seeds just because it was an immoral technology," said RAFI's Research Director, Hope Shand. "The company finally realized that Terminator will never win public acceptance. Terminator has became synonymous with corporate greed, and it was met with intense opposition all over the world," adds Shand. USDA is now in the shameful position of supporting and defending a genetic technology that the world's second largest seed corporation has clearly rejected due to public opposition. At a meeting with civil society organizations in June, Under-Secretary of Agriculture Richard Rominger told RAFI that USDA refuses to abandon the patent it co- owns with Delta & Pine Land (a Mississippi-based seed company in the process of being acquired by Monsanto) because it wants to see the technology widely licensed. "USDA is increasingly marginalized in its support of Terminator. It should immediately cease negotiations with Delta & Pine Land, abandon the patent, and develop a strict policy prohibiting use of taxpayer funds for development of genetic seed sterilization," said Hope Shand. Monsanto is the second major multinational corporation to back away from Terminator Technology. In June of this year, the UN Convention on Biological Diversity received a letter from UK-based AstraZeneca announcing that it would not commercialize seed sterility technologies. In all, more than a dozen companies and public institutes have at least 31 patents that include claims involving seed sterilization. Even though RAFI does not question Monsanto's public commitment to abandon Terminator, the groups notes that market and technical realities may eventually result in a different outcome. In a letter dated February 24, 1999 AstraZeneca categorically stated that it abandoned development of its Terminator-type technology for the purpose of seed sterilization in 1992. RAFI discovered that ExSeed, an AstraZeneca joint venture with Iowa State University, won a new seed sterilization patent on August 11, 1997, based on a claim made in 1995 -- three years after AstraZeneca's research was to have been abandoned. "Monsanto has taken a positive step, but let's not forget that farmers can never depend on the charity and good will of giant corporations to reject immoral technologies," concludes Pat Mooney, executive director of RAFI. "Without government action to firmly reject Terminator technology, this technology will be commercialized within a few years with potentially disastrous consequences." Monsanto's open letter to Rockefeller is available on the company's web site at: http://www.monsa nto.com/monsanto/gurt/default.htm A list of private and public sector institutions who hold Terminator- type patents; more information on Terminator technology; and an in- depth report on Traitor technology are available on RAFI's Web site: http://www.rafi.org. Traitor technology, once perfected, will create seeds whose genetic traits may be turned on or off with application of a proprietary chemical, such as an herbicide or fertilizer. Source: RAFI press release, October 4, 1999. Contact: RAFI, 110 Osborne St., Suite 202, Winnipeg MB R3L 1Y5 Canada; email rafi@rafi.org. =========================================== Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) 49 Powell St., Suite 500, San Francisco, CA 94102 USA Phone: (415) 981-1771 Fax: (415) 981-1991 Email: panna@panna.org Web: www.panna.org To subscribe to PANUPS, send email to majordomo@igc.org with the following text on one line: subscribe panups To unsubscribe, use: unsubscribe panups =========================================== To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 07:21:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25842 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:21:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA16524 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 05:23:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16454 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 05:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.39.197.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.39.197]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10485; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 02:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380D58C2.319F5ACC@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:53:06 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Benefit of BT Corn References: <3.0.6.32.19991019234640.00898780@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3300 You ask? How much is a monarch butterfly worth? There is an answer already made. It is written: "Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Fataher. But the very hairs of your hear are all numbered." "Consider the lilies of the field; how they grow; hey toil not, neither do they spin, and yet I say unto you. That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these." mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > Dale, I agree that public dialog is needed to understand and assess these > issues. We all have to take that long hard look to understand the benefits > and costs of any new technology. This article points to what I think could > be a positive secondary benefit of BT corn. But then I have to ask myself > what are the costs and are there other ways to accomplish the same goals. > This is the source of the musings about dairy cows. Do we even have to > feed dairy cows corn at all? When I was young and would visit my aunt's > farm during the summers, I seem to recall that she fed the milk cows oats > at least during milking. ( I could be all wet on this as that was a long > time ago and in a galaxy far away.) > > As for the food safety aspect of mycotoxin-containing corn, I suspect this > problem has been around a long time. What did we do to address this before > BT corn? I know that new pests are being introduced due to global > travel/trade and this maybe the case here but this particular aspect of the > report seems to me to be a "solution" looking for a "problem". > > I am still concerned about the rapid development of BT resistant pests from > large scale planting of BT crops. Evolution is still going on with no > respect to our current political/religious thought. We will have to > disagree on the importance of this one. > > Your reaction to my "coffee anyone" comment shows how important this type > of dialogue is. There was no hidden meaning intended. I just wished to > suggest that we should give this (and other) topics thoughtful > consideration which I sometime do over a cup of coffee. Mike, riding a new > bike, Miller (I can identify with your Comprehending Engineers post) > > >To: MMiller > >From: WILSONDO@phibred.com > >Date: 19 Oct 99 14:28:16 -0600 > >Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn > > > > > >Mike, > > > >> I wonder how we can do an honest "risk/benefit assessment" of > >> the existence of other non-target species? How much is a > >> monarch worth? Who gets to play God? > > > >As difficult as it is, public debate on GMO use, and other agricultural > >issues is essential in order to formulate public policy. It is necessary to > >come to some decision about how much monarch butterflies, etc. are worth. > >There is no technical answer about the value of a butterfly. But technical > >information can facilitate decisions by providing, for example, estimates of > >monarch death rates under various scenarios. > > > >> Aren't there alternatives like in the cow's milk benefit to > >> feeding milk cows contaminated corn in the first place? > > > >Everything has a cost, and to avoid feeding mycotoxin-containing corn > >requires, first, testing it, and if contaminated, selling the corn at a > >reduced price. To make informed decisions about these things, we require > >technical information, such as expected increase in milk price to control > >the risk versus cost of genetic solutions. > > > >> And the biggie question, how long will it take with the > >> widespread dispersal of the BT's toxin thoughout the > >> environment for this to become ineffective throught the > >> evolution of resistant pest? > > > >I think for most people, this is not an important question compared to > >issues of food safety. > > > >> Coffee anyone? > > > >Are you alluding to the risks of drinking coffee ;-) or pooh-poohing the > >idea of risk-benefit analysis? > > > >Dale > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 08:17:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26239 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02827 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:47:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02823 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23861 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.190.163.21] (pm3shep3-163-130.intrepid.net [209.190.163.130]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05999 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:45:21 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <379F6006.210A2C22@pratt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:52:33 -0400 To: World Sustainable Agriculture Association From: Allan Balliett Subject: Re: cover crop help Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3301 Hi! Finally getting around to putting down the winter rye here in the eastern panhandle of WV. I was wondering if anyone has seen a good webpage that covers sowing rates and techniques for cover crops for small holdings. ( Or, if you have you have your own tips to share. ) Other years we have simply broadcast the seed, but I'm often very unhappy with the results. The beds were spaded yesterday, but it looks like we're going to have rain for the next three days. Thanks for your consideration, Allan Balliett Claymont Farm CSA BIODYNAMICS Now! temp mailing address: 207 W. High Street POB 3047 Shepherdstown, WV 25443 Voice Mail: (304) 724-6763 FAX Forwarding (815) 550-6067 email: csa@claymont.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 08:42:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26423 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15665 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:09:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15540 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24377 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dan (bsg-ma1d-53.ix.netcom.com [209.110.251.53]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20070; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005401bf1af3$dc2ee860$35fb6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" , , "Sustainable AG list (E-mail)" Cc: Subject: Re: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences #3 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:08:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3302 Hi List, In my "unscientific" opinion. Store eggs vs. free range eggs. Free range eggs taste I'd say sweeter. And the color, yikes. I made a cake recently and it came out yellow! I put in three of my free range eggs which in a way were practically orange. I have had one double yoke so far, if I had let the chicken sit on it (yes we have a roster) would it hatch twins? And can chickens be "trained" not to cross the street? I know its the only way to get to the other side. But it embarrassing to watch cars slow down 'cause your chickens are in the street. Thanks Beth -----Original Message----- From: Greg & Lei Gunthorp To: gcr@rhealiving.com ; Sustainable AG list (E-mail) Cc: Ken@poultry.poulsci.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 12:48 AM Subject: Re: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences #3 >Does our tax dollars help support this industry based "information" that >free range eggs do not taste any different? Some days they say that free >range eggs have a wild taste and people do not like that. When it comes to >discussing health benefits (such as increased vitamins/minerals or CLA >content, etc) they always say the eggs are identical to caged eggs. > >Now are we really naive enough to believe that those bright orange yolks >that stand right up don't taste any different? How do they explain the >co-hesiveness of the free range eggs? What are they smoking in their pipe >up their at the land grant in NC? I see about half a dozen pastry chefs >each week that would get a huge laugh out of the poultry extension >specialists comments. The true proof is in the pasta, merangues, or ice >cream. Not to even mention the extra effort to scramble them for the best >tasting breakfast around. > >Before I discredit them too much I should attempt to explain their >discrepency in not being able to taste the difference. It probably boils > down to the USDA definition of free range eggs. Its possible to put hens in To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 09:28:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26992 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA07451 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:50:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07430 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-30.csj.net [12.29.22.30]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA03769; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:48:19 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "'Andy Lee & Pat Foreman'" , Subject: RE: Free Range Eggs Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:37:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf1af8$7752f440$442dfea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <19991020013119288.AAG347@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.54]> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3303 This was Chicago. Donna Fezler GCR Jacksonville, IL http://www.rhealiving.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Andy Lee & Pat Foreman Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 8:27 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Free Range Eggs > > I came across an article about some small scale farmers getting $2.00 per >>dozen for unfertilized free range, $4 for fertilized and $6 for green >>Araucana eggs. I know the $2 price is accurate, but the other two are a >>shock. >> I checked with the largest natural foods store in my region of Virginia, and they will willingly pay $2 per dozen for real free range eggs. On the other hand, they don't pay extra for "fertilized" eggs, and the idea of green eggs being worth $6 per dozen was somewhat amusing to them. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 10:01:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27802 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:01:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13492 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:10:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13470 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lisa.csj.net (root@lisa.csj.net [12.29.20.2]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26533 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:08:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from donna (jack-dialup-22-30.csj.net [12.29.22.30]) by lisa.csj.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04678 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:08:54 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Donna Fezler" To: "Sustainable AG list (E-mail)" Subject: More trouble on free-range eggs from poultry med Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:53:30 -0500 Message-ID: <001101bf1afb$53efc840$442dfea9@donna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3304 In response to Robert's strong defense of free-range chickens: -----Original Message----- > From: PLTRYNWS Poultry Health, Production and Management News > [mailto:PLTRYNWS@SDSUVM.SDSTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Jim Britton > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:47 PM > To: PLTRYNWS@SDSUVM.SDSTATE.EDU > Subject: Re: FW: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences Robert: Thank you for your comments on the commercial poultry industry and alternatives that are available. You are obviously well read and familiar with many aspects of commercial poultry production. I wonder, though, if maybe you're a little optomistic about production costs of birds on free range. $1 / dozen profit? That's unrealistic. Consumers will not pay. Not if we want to sell very many eggs. Also, I'm sure our cost of production will go up, not down; even though housing cost may decrease, health and performance will suffer. What about the increase in Salmonella that will occur? How will the consumer react? The debate you start is very relavent. And you're right, there is a lot of research that could help with many of these concerns. Jim Britton My answer: > Jim, > > I am the one that started this and I am also one of the > consumers who WAS paying. This month our family has eaten > the first free-range eggs in our lives and the difference is > not in our heads. I bought grocery store eggs this weekend > and we compared the difference in cooked eggs. There is a > discernible taste difference. If there is a taste difference > there must be biochemical differences. Ditto for free-range > chicken meat. It has an almost steak-like quality and deeper > depth of flavor. > > I first suspected there was a difference in free range eggs > and factory farm (battery? I don't know the term) eggs four > years ago. I was supplementing the feed for 80 1-3 month old > rhea chicks with cooked unfertilized rhea eggs. It is a > traditional practice to supplement infant rheas with cooked > egg. Since it was the end of the season I ran out of rhea > eggs and substituted grocery store chicken eggs. Within 14 > days I had to destroy over half of the chicks because of leg > rotations. No one had noticed a connection between the egg > supplementation and leg rotations, but the egg typically fed > was chicken egg. I realize the poultry industry blames leg > rotations on several variables, but this didn't seem to hold > up in this instance since the only change was the egg. > > The following year we suggested all the rhea growers use the > infertile eggs for the rhea chicks. Since the market was > depressed it was an economic advantage and is now common > practice, although at the last convention most admitted they > were serving the eggs raw which was never my intention. > Although this was hardly a scientific study, the rhea growers > no longer have to contend with the leg rotation problem as > long as they supplement with the rhea egg. Substrate appears > to be irrelevant. Admittedly there may be nutritional > differences between rhea eggs and chicken eggs, but > production method is surely a major difference. > > How can one predict that health will suffer? Battery birds > do not forage, nor, if I believe what the pastured poultry > people say, will they. A true free-range situation should be > an immune booster, providing a varied high quality protein > and fresh vegetable diet, exercise, and ample sunshine. This > is where research is vital-are we trading production > efficiency for decreased nutrition and quality? My intuition > says yes. The access to fresh, green food and sunshine is an > elementary prescription for health, why are chickens > different? Is it possible the increased health problems > assumption is made from the barren chicken yards of yesteryear? > > So many assumptions are masquerading as science and one of > these is that cheap food is just as nutritious as expensive > food. As farmers in Illinois have realized, growing cheap > food does not pay the bills, nor does it sell to consumers > who are accustomed to paying higher food bills. Consumers in > other countries pay a much higher percentage of income for > food and they are more particular about the food they > eat-witness the GMO debate in Europe. > > For years I listened to Conventional Wisdom that we had to > sanitize to control disease and more is better. Cleanliness > is critical, but the disinfectants were killing and deforming > the rhea chicks and the bacteria, when found, were secondary. > No one questioned this practice, it was taken as an > assumption from other animal industries. > > I work with people with autoimmune disorders of varying > degrees of chemical sensitivities. The sicker they are, the > more they respond to nutritional changes in their diet. Many > fibromyalgia patients are sensitive to antibiotics and beef. > The recommendation is to change to organic or free-range > meats and organic and cold-pressed oils since toxins > accumulate in fat. The assumption is that all food is equal, > but it doesn't appear to be to these people. I developed a > healthy respect for the value of sustainable methods and > organic food from my work with these people. > > These alternatives can co-exist with the factory farms > because some consumers want to know how their food was grown, > who grew it and are willing to pay the price to get it. > These consumers are willing to pay to allow those of us to > continue to develop methods to be better land stewards. > Sustainable agriculture has a place and needs the support of > Conventional Wisdom, not the immediate dismissal by the > standard paradigm. > > Donna Fezler > GCR > Jacksonville, IL > > http://www.rhealiving.com > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 10:05:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27854 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24994 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:36:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24964 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torrex1.theitgroup.com (itcrp.com [207.247.16.114]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27442 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by torrex1.theitgroup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:34:39 -0700 Message-ID: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE49435E@KNOXEX1> From: "Cole, Ralph" To: "'Allan Balliett'" , World Sustainable Agriculture Association Subject: RE: cover crop help Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:34:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3305 Hey there Allan- I always reference the book "Grow It" for such quandaries. And I usually broadcast 2 bu/acre for winter wheat/rye (4.5#/1000sf), then do a light disking to cover. You could drag a couple of tree limbs if you don't have a disk. This is on our 2 acre garden plot, and we've had good success. It would help to roll the field after disking, but I don't have a cultipacker or ring-roller. Am getting ready to sow the cover crop again this weekend, hopefully. Its getting sort of late. (This is upper elevation Tennessee). We were just up your way. Pretty country. The leaf colors are peaking, it seems. > -----Original Message----- > From: Allan Balliett [SMTP:igg@igg.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 7:53 PM > To: World Sustainable Agriculture Association > Subject: Re: cover crop help > > Hi! > > Finally getting around to putting down the winter rye here in the eastern > panhandle of WV. I was wondering if anyone has seen a good webpage that > covers sowing rates and techniques for cover crops for small holdings. ( > Or, if you have you have your own tips to share. ) Other years we have > simply broadcast the seed, but I'm often very unhappy with the results. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 10:12:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27990 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25540 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:38:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA25481 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:37:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA05243; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:36:22 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma004589; Wed, 20 Oct 99 08:35:47 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:35:47 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFA2@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:35:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3306 Mike, > When I was young and would visit my aunt's farm during the > summers, I seem to recall that she fed the milk cows oats > at least during milking. All this is driven in a complex way by market forces. In the corn belt, you can just grow a lot more calories of feed by growing corn than just about anything else. The practicality of oats has diminished because the market for the straw has diminished, and the value as a companion crop for establishment of hay has decreased. > As for the food safety aspect of mycotoxin-containing corn, I > suspect this problem has been around a long time. What did we > do to address this before BT corn? The effect and presence of some mycotoxins, especially the Fusarium moniliforme toxins like the fumonisins that are so common in corn, have only recently been discovered. > this particular aspect of the report seems to me to be a > "solution" looking for a "problem". There is a growing recognition in the seed industry that GMO's should have been introduced to the public in the context of products with direct value to the consumer (such as non-mycotoxigenic corn), rather than in products only with value to the farmer. Pioneer, for example, is so traditionally focused on the farmer-customer, that the broader political implications of new technologies have not been appreciated. To some extent, this is an attempt to demonstrate direct health benfits of Bt corn. But we have been working on low mycotoxin corn for a some time (different approaches besides Bt). The government may begin regulating mycotoxins soon and we want to be ready. Mycotoxin is a well characterized problem that is not (yet) on the political radar screen. > I am still concerned about the rapid development of BT > resistant pests from large scale planting of BT crops... > We will have to disagree on the importance of this one. It is important to me too. My point was that the general public doesn't care much about that. > I just wished to suggest that we should give this (and other) > topics thoughtful consideration which I sometime do over a cup > of coffee. Great! I wish I could attach a cup to this email. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 11:10:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29136 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08827 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:11:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08817 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:11:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail1.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.192]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28346 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.145.97] (dialup-0353.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.145.97]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA63730 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:09:04 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000501bf1a62$c8bb52a0$442dfea9@donna> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:08:21 +0100 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences #3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3307 Therefore, since the >> development of a chick embryo requires the same nutrients no >> matter where the hen produces the egg the nutrients the hen puts >> in are the same. >> >> Kenneth E. Anderson, Ph.D. So its just illusion when one of my children comes out in hives with commercial eggs and can eat them until they come out of his ears when they are home produced? The araucana price I am sure is because they look pretty. When I kept Marans I used to be able to get really, really silly prices for their beautiful dark brown eggs and people would fight over them whatever I charged kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 11:36:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29864 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00236 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:51:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00185 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.013C5758@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:49:54 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 20 Oct 99 10:49:53 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 20 Oct 99 10:49:50 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:49:42 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: free range and land grants In-reply-to: <199910200534.BAA18747@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3308 Greg Gunthorp asks: > What are they smoking in their pipe up their at the land grant in NC? I was told by a professor here (UGA) in the poultry program that not only was there no difference between pasture and caged birds, but that the only explanation for people who buy organic is "some people with a lot of discretionary income find some (ehem) very *interesting* ways to spend it." There is definately a strong paradigm (dogma?) here at the landgrants which make it rare to hear a differing opinion/answer, no matter what contrary evidence may be out there. When seeking guidance from these places, that should be kept in mind. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Wed Oct 20 08:09:36 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26100 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27682 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:39:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27560 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id SAA19526; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:18:17 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id SAA07461; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:47:24 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910201047.SAA07461@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 20 Oct 99 06:23:52 Subject: a vote for misha To: goodearth@rockbridge.net Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3309 >Btw, my experience of Misha's writing is that it is very long-winded, often >totally off the subject of this list, and yes I do delete frequently. I guess this is stand-up-and-be-counted time, lest Misha get discouraged or worse... I do like her messages very much and hope she'd keep posting them. Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Oct 20 13:57:48 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03937 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06770; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:57:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06659 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:56:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [216.224.155.231] (216-224-148-72.stk.jps.net [216.224.148.72]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA25879; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: fullcircle@mail.jps.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <379F6006.210A2C22@pratt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:02:37 -0800 To: Allan Balliett From: Marcie Rosenzweig Subject: Re: cover crop help Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3310 Allan, I, too, have been disappointed with broadcast stands. Don't know how big your place is. Most cover crop information is written for moderate scale mechanized farms or, at the least, row systems on more than 5 acres. Drilling is recommended, but that doesn't work for semi-permanent intensive bed systems or small scale farms, because the equipment isn't appropriate to that system. A friend with 9 ac uses a seed drill he rents or borrows. This year, we're going to run our hand seeder up and down our semi-permanent bed system with the largest seed plate we have at a depth of 1 1/2". We too, use a spader for tillage. Our mix of choice is Peaceful Valley's Soil Builder. There is some good cover crop information on the SAREP website at www.sarep.ucdavis.edu, sare at http://www.sare.org/san/mccp2/ and possibly at Peaceful Valley Farm Supply's new site at www.groworganic.com. Maybe other small CSA farms can chime in... Allan Balliett (igg@igg.com) wrote: Finally getting around to putting down the winter rye here in the eastern panhandle of WV. I was wondering if anyone has seen a good webpage that covers sowing rates and techniques for cover crops for small holdings. ( Or, if you have you have your own tips to share. ) Other years we have simply broadcast the seed, but I'm often very unhappy with the results. The beds were spaded yesterday, but it looks like we're going to have rain for the next three days. Marcie A. Rosenzweig Full Circle Organic Farm From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 14:14:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06866 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00696 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:48:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00667 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTHG0NJ>; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:47:02 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: Sustainable Agriculture Network Subject: RE: cover crop help Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:47:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3311 Allan, SANet: ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16672 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:23:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16632 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:23:41 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:22:02 -0500 X-ROUTED: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:22:02 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.68] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0c20303c ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:21:48 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991020120951.008adbf0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:09:51 -0500 To: Subject: Population Growth & Sustainability Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3312 A while back, there was a thread about the earth's population reaching 6,000,000,000 souls. One respondent said something that reminded me of a paper published back in the energy crisis days that seems to be relevant. It has to do with when we realize we that we have exceeded the carrying capacity of the system. This paper just surfaced on my desk again, mainly because I have no filing system for papers, ... mumble, mumble... So here is little excerpt from Am J. Phys, 46(9), Sept. 1978 pgs. 876-888 Forgotten fundamentals of the energy crisis Albert A. Bartlett, Dept of Physics, Uof Colorado, Boulder IV. Exponential Growth in a Finite Environment Bacteria grow by division so that 1 bacterium becomes 2, the 2 divide to give 4, the 4 divide to give 8,etc.. Consider a hypothetical strain of bacteria for which this division time is one minute. The number of bacteria grows exponentially with a doubling time of one minute. One bacterium is put in a bottle at 11 a.m. and it is observed that the bottle is full of bacteria by 12:00 noon. Here is a simple example of exponential growth in a finite environment. This is mathematically identical to the case of the exponentially growing consumption of our finite resources of fossil fuels. Keep this in mind as you ponder three questions about the bacteria: 1. When was the bottle half-full? Answer: 11:59 a.m.! 2. If you were an average bacterium in the bottle, at what time would you first realize that you were running out of spaced? Answer: There is no unique answer to this question, so let's ask, "At 11:55 a.m., when the bottle is only three percent filled(1/32) and is 97% open space (just yearning for development) would you preceive that there was a problem?" (snip time dated illustration) See below. 11:54 am 1/64 full 11:55 am 1/32 full 11:56 am 1/16 full 11:57 am 1/8 full 11:58 am 1/4 full 11:59 am 1/2 full 12:00 noon full Suppose that at 11:58 a.m. some far sighted bacteria realize that they are running out of space and consequently, with a great expenditure effort and funds, they launch a search for new bottles. (Snip time dated material) and at 11:59 a.m. they discover three new empty bottles. Great sighs of relief come from all the worried bacteria, because this magnificent discovery is three times the number of bottles that had hitherto been known. This discovery quadruples the total space resource known to the bacteria. Surely this will solve the problem so that the bacteria can be self-sufficient in space. 3. How long can the bacterial growth continue if the total space resources are quadrupled? Answer: Two more doubling times (minutes). See below. 11:58 am Bottle 1 is 1/4 full 11:59 am Bottle 1 is 1/2 full 12:00 noon Bottle 1 is full 12:01 pm Bottle 1 and 2 are both full 12:02 pm Bottles 1,2,3,4 are all full Well there it is. Sorry it is so long but it illustrates an imporatant point about our ability to preceive a problem with something in exponential growth and still have time to do something about it. After pondering this one maybe Prozac is more in order than coffee :>) Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 14:58:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07858 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05319 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:57:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05212 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.224.155.231] (216-224-148-72.stk.jps.net [216.224.148.72]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA25879; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: fullcircle@mail.jps.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <379F6006.210A2C22@pratt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:02:37 -0800 To: Allan Balliett From: Marcie Rosenzweig Subject: Re: cover crop help Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, csa-l@prairienet.org Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3313 Allan, I, too, have been disappointed with broadcast stands. Don't know how big your place is. Most cover crop information is written for moderate scale mechanized farms or, at the least, row systems on more than 5 acres. Drilling is recommended, but that doesn't work for semi-permanent intensive bed systems or small scale farms, because the equipment isn't appropriate to that system. A friend with 9 ac uses a seed drill he rents or borrows. This year, we're going to run our hand seeder up and down our semi-permanent bed system with the largest seed plate we have at a depth of 1 1/2". We too, use a spader for tillage. Our mix of choice is Peaceful Valley's Soil Builder. There is some good cover crop information on the SAREP website at www.sarep.ucdavis.edu, sare at http://www.sare.org/san/mccp2/ and possibly at Peaceful Valley Farm Supply's new site at www.groworganic.com. Maybe other small CSA farms can chime in... Allan Balliett (igg@igg.com) wrote: Finally getting around to putting down the winter rye here in the eastern panhandle of WV. I was wondering if anyone has seen a good webpage that covers sowing rates and techniques for cover crops for small holdings. ( Or, if you have you have your own tips to share. ) Other years we have simply broadcast the seed, but I'm often very unhappy with the results. The beds were spaded yesterday, but it looks like we're going to have rain for the next three days. Marcie A. Rosenzweig Full Circle Organic Farm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-csa-l@prairienet.org Wed Oct 20 15:45:45 1999 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08862 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17699; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:45:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law-f82.hotmail.com [209.185.131.145]) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17459 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:44:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 71490 invoked by uid 0); 20 Oct 1999 19:43:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19991020194321.71489.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.121.26.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:43:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.121.26.5] From: "Kenneth Barnes" To: fullcircle@jps.net, igg@igg.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: cover crop help Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:43:20 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-csa-l@prairienet.org X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.07 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3314 I'm located in central North Carolina. Just got my cover crop in last Saturday, 10/16/99. I used a hairy vetch/rye combination. Had hoped to plant it in early September, but couldn't due to all the rains from Hurricanes. I planted my veggies this year in a field that had been sown in fescue for the past 15 years. I only tilled the area where I intended to plant, about 40 inches wide, and I left the fescue growing between the rows to control runoff. I was going to use a pull-type drop spreader for seed placement of my cover crop. Unfortunately, it decided to break on the fourth row, and I ended up sowing the rest by hand. I then raked the soil lightly for seed coverage. I finished up at dark, and we received about 2.8 inches of rain on Sunday, courtesy of Hurricane Irene. Boy, what a year this has been! Good Luck to all! -Kenneth J Barnes The Shepherd's Farm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 16:24:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09697 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20674 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:33:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20547 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:33:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gwg2 ([128.253.226.175]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04141; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19991020152157.00b61db0@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: gwg2@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:28:41 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, RSSustAg-L@cornell.edu, crockett@servtech.com, ehendrsn@redsuspenders.com, smithmarym@yahoo.com, klawrence@igc.org, andra.benson2@gte.net, pda1999@yahoo.com, bcb5@cornell.edu, dlh3@cornell.edu From: Gilbert Gillespie Subject: Census of Agriculture Wish List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_23996513==_.ALT" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3315 --=====================_23996513==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Duncan Hilchey of the Cornell Farming Alternatives Program asked me to forward request for imput on what should be added to the 2002 U.S. Census of Agriculture. He will greatly appreciate your comments and suggestions. Please contact him directly at the address at the end of this posting. Thanks, Gil Gillespie CENSUS OF AGRICULTURE WISH LIST At the Second National Small Farm Conference in St. Louis last week a group of CBO, Extension and USDA personnel met briefly between workshops to discuss changes that might be considered for the 2002 Census of Agriculture. The current Census of Agriculture does not currently reflect emerging changes in the agriculture industry-especially among small farms. The census' emphasis largely remains commodity oriented, even as hundreds of thousands of small family farms experiment with new agriculture products and markets. If the Census was made more relevant to small farms we might see an increase in small farm participation in the Census. I am soliciting feedback from as many interested persons and organizations as possible around the country. A consolidated list of possible changes and additions will be compiled by me (Duncan Hilchey) and tendered to the USDA by Desmond Jolly, Directory of the Small Farm Program at University of California, Davis. Examples of Possible Changes and Additions Though relatively simplistic at this stage here are some examples of changes and topical areas which might be added to the Census. Feel free to comment on these and add as many of your own ideas. 1. "Production for Direct Human Consumption" (AKA Direct Marketing) currently only includes (farms, total and average per farm); Would like this broken down by "type" of direct marketing: PYO, farm-stand, farmers' market, CSA, etc. 2. Include non-edible category under direct marketing (e.g., flowers, decorative greens, etc.) 3. Direct wholesale (farms, $, and breakdown by type) Restaurants Supermarkets Other growers Other direct wholesale 4. Agritourism (Farms, $, and breakdown by type) Bed & Breakfast Farm tours Animal petting Hay rides Other agritourism 5. Value-adding (Farms, $, and breakdown by type) Processing Packaging Information Other value-adding 6. Membership in Cooperatives (Farms, $, and breakdown by type) Marketing co-op Purchasing co-op Combination co-op Other cooperative 7. Organic (Farms, acreage, and breakdown by type) [I am not sure whether this is in or not] Certified Non-certified 8. Quality of life measures?????? Send your ideas for how to change the Census of Agriculture to: Duncan Hilchey Farming Alternatives Program Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 dlh3@cornell.edu 607/255-4413 --=====================_23996513==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Duncan Hilchey of the Cornell Farming Alternatives Program asked me to forward request for imput on what should be added to the 2002 U.S. Census of Agriculture. He will greatly appreciate your comments and suggestions. Please contact him directly at the address at the end of this posting.
    Thanks, Gil Gillespie

    CENSUS OF AGRICULTURE WISH LIST

    At the Second National Small Farm Conference in St. Louis last week a group of CBO, Extension and USDA personnel met briefly between workshops to discuss changes that might be considered for the 2002 Census of Agriculture.

    The current Census of Agriculture does not currently reflect emerging changes in the agriculture industry-especially among small farms. The census' emphasis largely remains commodity oriented, even as hundreds of thousands of small family farms experiment with new agriculture products and markets. If the Census was made more relevant to small farms we might see an increase in small farm participation in the Census.

    I am soliciting feedback from as many interested persons and organizations as possible around the country. A consolidated list of possible changes and additions will be compiled by me (Duncan Hilchey) and tendered to the USDA by Desmond Jolly, Directory of the Small Farm Program at University of California, Davis.

    Examples of Possible Changes and Additions
    Though relatively simplistic at this stage here are some examples of changes and topical areas which might be added to the Census. Feel free to comment on these and add as many of your own ideas.

    1. "Production for Direct Human Consumption" (AKA Direct Marketing) currently only includes (farms, total and average per farm);
    Would like this broken down by "type" of direct marketing: PYO, farm-stand, farmers' market, CSA, etc.

    2. Include non-edible category under direct marketing (e.g., flowers, decorative greens, etc.)

    3. Direct wholesale (farms, $, and breakdown by type)
    Restaurants
    Supermarkets
    Other growers
    Other direct wholesale

    4. Agritourism (Farms, $, and breakdown by type)
    Bed & Breakfast
    Farm tours
    Animal petting
    Hay rides
    Other agritourism

    5. Value-adding (Farms, $, and breakdown by type)
    Processing
    Packaging
    Information
    Other value-adding

    6. Membership in Cooperatives (Farms, $, and breakdown by type)
    Marketing co-op
    Purchasing co-op
    Combination co-op
    Other cooperative

    7. Organic (Farms, acreage, and breakdown by type) [I am not sure whether this is in or not]
    Certified
    Non-certified

    8. Quality of life measures??????



    Send your ideas for how to change the Census of Agriculture to:
    Duncan Hilchey
    Farming Alternatives Program
    Cornell University
    Ithaca, NY 14853

    dlh3@cornell.edu
    607/255-4413

    --=====================_23996513==_.ALT-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 16:34:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09847 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28840 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:45:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f82.hotmail.com [209.185.131.145]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA28771 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 71490 invoked by uid 0); 20 Oct 1999 19:43:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19991020194321.71489.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.121.26.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:43:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.121.26.5] From: "Kenneth Barnes" To: fullcircle@jps.net, igg@igg.com Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, csa-l@prairienet.org Subject: Re: cover crop help Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:43:20 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3316 I'm located in central North Carolina. Just got my cover crop in last Saturday, 10/16/99. I used a hairy vetch/rye combination. Had hoped to plant it in early September, but couldn't due to all the rains from Hurricanes. I planted my veggies this year in a field that had been sown in fescue for the past 15 years. I only tilled the area where I intended to plant, about 40 inches wide, and I left the fescue growing between the rows to control runoff. I was going to use a pull-type drop spreader for seed placement of my cover crop. Unfortunately, it decided to break on the fourth row, and I ended up sowing the rest by hand. I then raked the soil lightly for seed coverage. I finished up at dark, and we received about 2.8 inches of rain on Sunday, courtesy of Hurricane Irene. Boy, what a year this has been! Good Luck to all! -Kenneth J Barnes The Shepherd's Farm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 17:03:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10544 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18599 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ncnoc.ncren.net (ncnoc.ncren.net [192.101.21.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18424 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:21:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatmail.ncat.edu (ncatmail.ncat.edu [152.8.244.149]) by ncnoc.ncren.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20936 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:19:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agnus.ag.ncat.edu (agnus.ag.ncat.edu [152.8.33.7]) by ncatmail.ncat.edu (2.1.1/8.9.1/Execmail 2.1) with SMTP id QAA02613 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from talbottc.ncat.edu (unverified [152.8.6.70]) by agnus.ag.ncat.edu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:28:56 -0400 Message-ID: <003201bf1b40$42b6db00$46060898@talbottc.ncat.edu> Reply-To: "Charles W. Talbott" From: "Charles W. Talbott" To: Subject: Small Scale Hog Project Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:15:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3317 Introduction: My name is Chuck Talbott and I recently received a Grant from SARE to look at alternative methods for small scale producers to raise and sell hogs from environmentally sound management systems. The grant is entitled "Integrated Crop and Sylvan Systems with Swine: A State and National Initiative". Collaborators on this project include: Greg and Lei Gunthorp, hog producers and small farm advocates, The Carolina Farm Stewarship Association (CFSA), as well as other local farmers and researchers from NC A&T State University (C. Rackzowski and M. R. Reddy/Soil Science and Water Quality and J. Upshaw, DVM and R. McKinnie, Coop. Ext.) and J. Green, (NCSU Forage Program). I hope to develop a dialogue on Sanet-mg with others interested in promoting small scale livestock farmers. Objective: I. Integrated Production Systems: Small Scale Swine producers in North Carolina (on-farm inventory of 250 animals which may translate into 10-15 sows) are required to rotate their animals from dry-lots annually, and harvest a crop/forage before returning pigs to the same lots. This project will look at the potential for developing organic soils/garden plots from using swine raised on plots with mulch as a bedding. By the hog's turning and trampling, manure and mulch are expected to be converted into composted material for eventually producing organic vegetables (which would eventually require alternative wormers, etc.). The bedding (leaves, old hay bales etc.) may help to reduce hog waste runoff and reduce parasite challenge. There is also the potential for transferring zoanotic diseases from swine waste into the vegetables produced. We will document these health issues. Objective 2: The Meat of the Problem: Greg Gunthorp (http://www.grassfarmer.com/pigs/gunthorp.html) and generations before him, have shown we can produce pigs on the ground. The question is can we capitalize on this management system to produce a unique carcass that will appeal to upscale markets and translate into profit? Some options that influence taste are in selecting breeds and diets that will produce the desired results for pastured programs. Swine are good at transferring flavor into the meat (fat) based on diet consumed. While at a conference in Cuba last year, I met some Spaniards who fed their Iberian hogs under cork trees (2 finishing hogs/Ha for three months produces succulent Jamon Iberico). They indicated that the fatty acids from the nuts give the meat/fat a unique taste that consumers pay up to five times the price of commercially raised hogs. Morrison's Feeds and Feeding Textbook and Fox Fire (feeding under Oak and Mulberry trees) also shed light on the subject. Objective 3: Identify and address slaughter/marketing constraints: Another problem we face in NC is finding small slaughter and processing plants that can provide their services to small scale producers. Many plants are closing up due to the new waste management and/or HAACP regulations. We plan to address this issue with State and Federal Slaughter and Processing Administrators as well as other small livestock concerns at the CFSA Annual Conference in November (12-14) in High Point, NC (http://www.carolinafarmstewards.org ; Telephone: 919 542-2402; E-mail cfsa@carolinafarmstewards.org). Highlights from the livestock forum at the CFSA meeting will be posted in next month's news letter. Charles W. Talbott, Ph D Adj. Ast. Professor, NC A&T SU 101 Webb Hall Greensboro, NC 27411 (336) 334 7672 Fax (336) 334 7288 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 17:08:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10638 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21298 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:26:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex1.theitgroup.com (itcrp.com [207.247.16.114]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21286 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by torrex1.theitgroup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:23:55 -0700 Message-ID: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE494363@KNOXEX1> From: "Cole, Ralph" To: "'Anita Graf (Staff)'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: free range and land grants Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:23:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3318 One of our chicken customers (who just moved to Tennessee from New York) called the extension agent to ask where she could find fresh organic produce. The answer: "You don't want that. It doesn't look very good." This customer lives in the county where the vegetable experiment station is located, and drives 45 minutes each way to buy pastured chickens from us. > > What are they smoking in their pipe up their at the land grant in NC? [Cole, Ralph] I thought NC was supposed to be the hotbed of organoculture in the southeast? > I was told by a professor here (UGA) in the poultry program that not > only was there no difference between pasture and caged birds, but > that the only explanation for people who buy organic is "some people > with a lot of discretionary income find some (ehem) very > *interesting* ways to spend it." There is definately a strong > paradigm (dogma?) here at the landgrants which make it rare to hear a > differing opinion/answer, no matter what contrary evidence may be out > there. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 17:25:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11135 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05160 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:52:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from isua2.iastate.edu (isua2.iastate.edu [129.186.1.202]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05081 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (ehurley@localhost) by isua2.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA14085 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:50:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910202050.PAA14085@isua2.iastate.edu> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Population Growth & Sustainability Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:50:33 CDT From: Eric G Hurley Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3319 Just to add to the population limits discussion I did some calculations considering the limits to our growth based on the simple assumption that mass cannot be created or destroyed. Assuming a current world human population of 6 billion and a doubling rate of every 30 years. And assuming that the average human weight is 50 kg. (110 lbs). By the year 3350, far less time than the between the time of Christ and now, a mere 54 generations away, the mass of humanity will exceed the mass of the earth (6 X 10^24 kg). In another 540 years or 22 more generations, by the year 3890 the mass of humanity will exceed the mass of the sun (2 X 10^30 kg). For a total freak out consider that just 163 generations or 4,080 years from now, in the year 6080, the mass of humanity would exceed the mass of the known universe (2.5 X 10^52 kg), that is the mass of all the stars in all the GALAXIES that astronomers are aware of. I suspect our population growth will be somewhat limited before we reach this point. We will choose how painful it will be. Eric G. Hurley Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 18:19:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11970 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01578 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:37:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from law.uoregon.edu (law.uoregon.edu [128.223.240.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA01473 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23356 invoked from network); 20 Oct 1999 21:39:59 -0000 Received: from d243-77.uoregon.edu (HELO drake.uoregon.edu) (128.223.243.77) by law.uoregon.edu with SMTP; 20 Oct 1999 21:39:59 -0000 Message-ID: <003401bf1b43$3f5ecf00$4df3df80@drake.uoregon.edu> From: "JY" To: Subject: Y2k - food systems Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:36:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF1B08.7FE0F200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3320 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF1B08.7FE0F200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excuse my ignorance, but can someone please explain how the Y2k "bug" = will effect the food distribution system as we know it today? I tried = to explain to a cynical friend in NYC why she needs to stock up on food = and surprised myself that I couldn't give her a concrete explanation of = how she may be effected. =20 Thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF1B08.7FE0F200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Excuse my ignorance, but can someone = please=20 explain how the Y2k "bug" will effect the food distribution = system as=20 we know it today?  I tried to explain to a cynical friend in NYC = why she=20 needs to stock up on food and surprised myself that I couldn't give her = a=20 concrete explanation of how she may be effected.
     
    Thanks.
    ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BF1B08.7FE0F200-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 18:26:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12065 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09907 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09850 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.29] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:42:53 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:53:31 -0400 Subject: Free range eggs From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991020214253377.AAC319@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.29]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3321 > Jim Britton wrote, > Thank you for your comments on the commercial poultry industry and > alternatives that are available. You are obviously well read and familiar > with > many aspects of commercial poultry production. I wonder, though, if maybe > you're a little optomistic about production costs of birds on free range. > $1 / > dozen profit? That's unrealistic. Consumers will not pay. Not if we want > to > sell very many eggs. Also, I'm sure our cost of production will go up, not > down; even though housing cost may decrease, health and performance will > suffer. What about the increase in Salmonella that will occur? How will > the > consumer react? > The debate you start is very relavent. And you're right, there is a lot > of > research that could help with many of these concerns. > > Jim Britton After raising free range birds for some 40 years I too can confirm what Robert has said, that cost of production is low because our housing costs are low. A new commercial layer facility today costs over $250,000 compared to a backyard free range portable house that costs maybe $200. My neighbor has two commercial barns that cost nearly $600,000. His net income for 1998 was $18,000. My small-scale flocks cost about $15,000, and my net income for 1998 from poultry was $15,000. We need a new paradigm if we are to design and build farms that our children will want to own. I have young friends whose parents own commercial poultry barns, and all these young people are scrambling to get jobs off the farm, or get out of town. They do not want the debt, and the worry and the inferior lifestyle offered by commercial poultry production. However, if we show them free range projects like mine, and Robert's, and hundred even thousands more, across the country, then perhaps young people will want to stay on the farm and work to make a go of it. A $1 per dozen profit IS realistic, and what's more, it is NECESSARY, if we are to keep our farms profitable, for this generation and the next. Jim, you might be correct in saying that performance will suffer. Perhaps we can't produce as many eggs per hen as the commercial people can. But, why would we want to? The commercial paradigm burns out the hens, burns out the farmer, and gives the consumer a pale, soft and watery egg that has no flavor and probably very little nutritional value. Consumers will pay $2 per dozen, and more. My wholesale price to retail stores is $2, and they mark them up to $2.39 to $2.69 and sell out every week. Here at my farm we get $2 per dozen unsorted, and every year we get more and more customers. No, it's not because a bunch of yuppies have some discretionary income that they spend foolishly. It's because families like yours and mine are demanding better tasting, nutritious, clean food, and willing to put their money where their mouth is. Regards, Andy Lee To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 18:27:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12074 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:27:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09901 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:50:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09816 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.29] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:42:50 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:37:11 -0400 Subject: Sustainable Agriculture Network, formerly vote for Misha From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991020214250934.AAA319@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.29]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3322 No, Roberto, we aren't voting, just making our needs known. Nobody has asked anybody to stop posting to this list. This list has nearly 800 members, ALL of whom have a right to use it, and a responsibility not to abuse it. I do think it is in everybody's best interest to keep our subject, Sustainable Agriculture, in mind. And, it is appropriate to treat each other with respect, regardless of cultural or philosophical differences. Flaming each other, on or off the list, is counter-productive to our cause. We are all on the same side, to find and promote a better way of agriculture that can sustain this generation while leaving resources for the next. (this is my summary of a definition of sustainable agriculture posted to this list by Dr. Ikerd some time back.) Regards, Andy Lee >From: owner-sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu (sanet-mg-digest) >To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu >Subject: sanet-mg-digest V1 #1372 >Date: Wed, Oct 20, 1999, 12:56 PM > > I guess this is stand-up-and-be-counted time, lest Misha get > discouraged or worse... I do like her messages very much and hope > she'd keep posting them. > > Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 19:26:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12721 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:26:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24653 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:00:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web1402.mail.yahoo.com (web1402.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.166]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA24581 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19991020231524.3371.rocketmail@web1402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.60.23.46] by web1402.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:15:24 PDT Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:15:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen M. Apatow" Subject: Re: Y2k - food systems "JY" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3323 Try the USDA Resources for Food Safety and Storage in Emergency Situations: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Food and Nutrition Information Center Agricultural Research Service, USDA National Agricultural Library, Room 304 10301 Baltimore Avenue Beltsville, MD 20705-2351 Phone: 301-504-5719 Fax: 301-504-6409 TTY: 301-504-6856 e-mail:fnic@nal.usda.gov Web site: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/ ###################################### Stephen M. Apatow, President Humanitarian Resource Institute Eastern USA: (203) 668-0282 Western USA: (775) 884-4680 Internet: http://www.humanitarian.net ###################################### Email: sma@humanitarian.net --- JY wrote: > Excuse my ignorance, but can someone please explain > how the Y2k "bug" will effect the food distribution > system as we know it today? I tried to explain to a > cynical friend in NYC why she needs to stock up on > food and surprised myself that I couldn't give her a > concrete explanation of how she may be effected. > > Thanks. > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 20:33:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13475 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06500 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:04:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06495 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11056 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPEPE3PY; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:00:03 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:21:58 -0700 Subject: chickens and eggs Message-ID: <19991020.164401.3502.3.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4-5,13,17-18 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3324 Beth asked: (snip) And can chickens be "trained" not to cross the street? I know its the only way to get to the other side. But it embarrassing to watch cars slow down 'cause your chickens are in the street. (snip) I don't know about crossing the street because the nearest street is much farther than mine roam, but I have one lame hen who decided she'd rather starve to death than submit to my rooster so I've been taking her out to my front yard where she stays until I come get her at night. I never thought birds could be "house trained" but she never defecates on me while I carry her. I noticed they don't defecate in the nest, either. I haven't gone so far as to invite her into my house, but I think she would like it as long as I keep the rooster out. Does anyone know how to keep a rooster from being so rough on the hens? Mine break the feathers on their backs and pull the feathers off the sides of their heads. I really don't want to increase the flock size but 10 hens just aren't enough to keep him satisfied. Best Regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 20:33:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13479 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06466 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:04:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06458 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11054 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPEPE3HU; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:00:03 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:49:52 -0700 Subject: insect (true bug) control on pistachios Message-ID: <19991020.164401.3502.0.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5,12-14 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3325 Dear SANETers: I have a new friend who purchased a pistachio orchard and wants to convert to organic methods. Their first harvest had severe damage from leaf-footed plant bugs, stink bugs, and lygus bugs leaving some of the nuts off tasting. Other pistachio growers in her area (high desert in Arizona) spray with Pounce. I know almost nothing about pistachios and I haven't been especially successful at controling the occassional outbreaks of any kind of sucking bugs (that is true bugs) in my own garden. Can any of you help? I don't want to send her to our county agent who is NOT sympathetic to organic concepts. Are there some cultural things she can do? Are there some organic controls available? I will forward any suggestions to her. Best Regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 21:28:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14010 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13775 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:03:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13757 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.162] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:01:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:58:19 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1832.991020@acnet.net> To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re[2]: Benefit of BT Corn In-reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFA2@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFA2@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3326 Hello Dale, Wednesday, October 20, 1999, 7:35:46 AM, you & Mike wrote: MM>> this particular aspect of the report seems to me to be a MM>> "solution" looking for a "problem". Agreed. The relationship is dubious at best. DW> we have been working on low mycotoxin corn for a some time DW> (different approaches besides Bt). Please elaborate. What approaches? MM>> I am still concerned about the rapid development of BT MM>> resistant pests from large scale planting of BT crops... DW> It is important to me too. Douglas Hinds, CeDeCoR, A.C. Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, Asociacion Civil (Center for Rural and CoMM>>unity Development, a non-profit organization) Cordoba, Veracruz; Cd. Guzman, Jalisco & Reynosa, Tamaulipas Mexico dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 23:09:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14962 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15836 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:38:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gw2.dnepr.net (CoreGW2-TBone.dnepr.net [195.24.156.97]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15814 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.dnepr.net (Sttyg.dnepr.net [195.24.156.192]) by gw2.dnepr.net (8.8.8/8.6.18/01) with ESMTP id FAA24189 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:36:22 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <380E7CBB.419D93DC@mail.dnepr.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:38:51 +0300 From: vera X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: rats in pig barns Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3327 1. Does anyone know effective means by which to control rats in outdoor swine system production systems? 2. Can wood be used in outdoor swine systems for platforms on which the pig can stand? I ask the question from the point of view as to whether the wood material can be disinfected between different pig group uses. Nila To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 20 23:20:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15211 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26912 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26841 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordomo2.umd.edu (majordomo2.umd.edu [128.8.10.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13469 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (root@rac7.wam.umd.edu [128.8.10.147]) by majordomo2.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29001; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rac7.wam.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA04348; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jgruv@localhost) by rac7.wam.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04344; Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:54:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: rac7.wam.umd.edu: jgruv owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:54:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Brooks Gruver To: Edna M Weigel cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: insect (true bug) control on pistachios In-Reply-To: <19991020.164401.3502.0.eweigel@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3328 Hello Edna and all others... Several years ago, a friend gave me a copy of the farm magazine "Farmer to Farmer", issue # 18, January-February 1997. This magazine is/was published 5 times a year by the Community Alliance with Family Farmers. Issue #18 has many great articles including one titled "New Tests of Soil Quality" (which I think is why my friend gave me a copy) and one titled "Do Pistachios require inputs every year ?" I would definitely recommend that anyone interested in ecologically based Pistachio production should contact the author of the article, Max Stevenson. His e-mail in 1997 was mtstevenson@ucdavis.edu. The cover article of Issue #18 is about the BIOS (Biologically Integrated Orchard Systems) program. The BIOS program sounds really excellent. I would definitely recommend that anyone interested in ecologically based tree crop production in California or similar climate should contact BIOS at bioas@caff.org. Joel Gruver Center for Agriculture, Food and Environment Tufts University To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 01:25:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16268 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 01:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA14092 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:52:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14024 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:52:47 -0400 (EDT) From: HLPizza@aol.com Received: from HLPizza@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 7BYOa26614 (4586); Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.3561110e.253ff599@aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:50:33 EDT Subject: Re: Small Scale Hog Project To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, talbottc@ncat.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3329 I am a chef and have been purchasing pork from Niman Ranch (no antibotic, steriod free, raised outdoors, etc). No question it is a superior product and that there is demand for it. Look into a fellow named Paul Willis (in Iowa) who has teamed up with Niman Ranch (Marin Co. Ca.) and is doing exactly what you have asked about. Very good article in "The Art of Eating" no. 51 Summer 1999, by Edward Behr 800-495-3944. Introduction: My name is Chuck Talbott and I recently received a Grant from SARE to look at alternative methods for small scale producers to raise and sell hogs from environmentally sound management systems. The grant is entitled "Integrated Crop and Sylvan Systems with Swine: A State and National Initiative". Collaborators on this project include: Greg and Lei Gunthorp, hog producers and small farm advocates, The Carolina Farm Stewarship Association (CFSA), as well as other local farmers and researchers from NC A&T State University (C. Rackzowski and M. R. Reddy/Soil Science and Water Quality and J. Upshaw, DVM and R. McKinnie, Coop. Ext.) and J. Green, (NCSU Forage Program). I hope to develop a dialogue on Sanet-mg with others interested in promoting small scale livestock farmers. Objective: I. Integrated Production Systems: Small Scale Swine producers in North Carolina (on-farm inventory of 250 animals which may translate into 10-15 sows) are required to rotate their animals from dry-lots annually, and harvest a crop/forage before returning pigs to the same lots. This project will look at the potential for developing organic soils/garden plots from using swine raised on plots with mulch as a bedding. By the hog's turning and trampling, manure and mulch are expected to be converted into composted material for eventually producing organic vegetables (which would eventually require alternative wormers, etc.). The bedding (leaves, old hay bales etc.) may help to reduce hog waste runoff and reduce parasite challenge. There is also the potential for transferring zoanotic diseases from swine waste into the vegetables produced. We will document these health issues. Objective 2: The Meat of the Problem: Greg Gunthorp (http://www.grassfarmer.com/pigs/gunthorp.html) and generations before him, have shown we can produce pigs on the ground. The question is can we capitalize on this management system to produce a unique carcass that will appeal to upscale markets and translate into profit? Some options that influence taste are in selecting breeds and diets that will produce the desired results for pastured programs. Swine are good at transferring flavor into the meat (fat) based on diet consumed. While at a conference in Cuba last year, I met some Spaniards who fed their Iberian hogs under cork trees (2 finishing hogs/Ha for three months produces succulent Jamon Iberico). They indicated that the fatty acids from the nuts give the meat/fat a unique taste that consumers pay up to five times the price of commercially raised hogs. Morrison's Feeds and Feeding Textbook and Fox Fire (feeding under Oak and Mulberry trees) also shed light on the subject. Objective 3: Identify and address slaughter/marketing constraints: Another problem we face in NC is finding small slaughter and processing plants that can provide their services to small scale producers. Many plants are closing up due to the new waste management and/or HAACP regulations. We plan to address this issue with State and Federal Slaughter and Processing Administrators as well as other small livestock concerns at the CFSA Annual Conference in November (12-14) in High Point, NC (http://www.carolinafarmstewards.org ; Telephone: 919 542-2402; E-mail cfsa@carolinafarmstewards.org). Highlights from the livestock forum at the CFSA meeting will be posted in next month's news letter. Charles W. Talbott, Ph D Adj. Ast. Professor, NC A&T SU 101 Webb Hall Greensboro, NC 27411 (336) 334 7672 Fax (336) 334 7288 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 03:38:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17397 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:38:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA06041 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:08:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05989 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:08:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.44.22.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.44.22]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22444; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380EA34F.554076FE@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:23:27 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric G Hurley CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Population Growth & Sustainability References: <199910202050.PAA14085@isua2.iastate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3330 sterlize males Eric G Hurley wrote: > Just to add to the population limits discussion I did some calculations > considering the limits to our growth based on the simple assumption that > mass cannot be created or destroyed. > > Assuming a current world human population of 6 billion and a doubling rate > of every 30 years. And assuming that the average human weight is 50 kg. > (110 lbs). > > By the year 3350, far less time than the between the time of Christ and > now, a mere 54 generations away, the mass of humanity will exceed the mass > of the earth (6 X 10^24 kg). > > In another 540 years or 22 more generations, by the year 3890 the mass of > humanity will exceed the mass of the sun (2 X 10^30 kg). > > For a total freak out consider that just 163 generations or 4,080 years > from now, in the year 6080, the mass of humanity would > exceed the mass of the known universe (2.5 X 10^52 kg), that is the mass > of all the stars in all the GALAXIES that astronomers are aware of. > > I suspect our population growth will be somewhat limited before we reach > this point. We will choose how painful it will be. > > Eric G. Hurley > Iowa State University > Ames IA 50011 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 03:40:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17414 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA06119 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:08:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06068 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.44.22.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.44.22]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22549; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380EA646.4C5332D8@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:36:06 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Population Growth & Sustainability References: <3.0.6.32.19991020120951.008adbf0@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3331 sterilize the males mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > A while back, there was a thread about the earth's population reaching > 6,000,000,000 souls. One respondent said something that reminded me of a > paper published back in the energy crisis days that seems to be relevant. > It has to do with when we realize we that we have exceeded the carrying > capacity of the system. > > This paper just surfaced on my desk again, mainly because I have no filing > system for papers, ... mumble, mumble... > So here is little excerpt from Am J. Phys, 46(9), Sept. 1978 pgs. 876-888 > > Forgotten fundamentals of the energy crisis > Albert A. Bartlett, Dept of Physics, Uof Colorado, Boulder > > IV. Exponential Growth in a Finite Environment > > Bacteria grow by division so that 1 bacterium becomes 2, the 2 divide to > give 4, the 4 divide to give 8,etc.. Consider a hypothetical strain of > bacteria for which this division time is one minute. The number of > bacteria grows exponentially with a doubling time of one minute. One > bacterium is put in a bottle at 11 a.m. and it is observed that the bottle > is full of bacteria by 12:00 noon. Here is a simple example of exponential > growth in a finite environment. This is mathematically identical to the > case of the exponentially growing consumption of our finite resources of > fossil fuels. Keep this in mind as you ponder three questions about the > bacteria: > > 1. When was the bottle half-full? Answer: 11:59 a.m.! > > 2. If you were an average bacterium in the bottle, at what time would you > first realize that you were running out of spaced? > > Answer: There is no unique answer to this question, so let's ask, "At > 11:55 a.m., when the bottle is only three percent filled(1/32) and is 97% > open space (just yearning for development) would you preceive that there > was a problem?" > > (snip time dated illustration) See below. > > 11:54 am 1/64 full > 11:55 am 1/32 full > 11:56 am 1/16 full > 11:57 am 1/8 full > 11:58 am 1/4 full > 11:59 am 1/2 full > 12:00 noon full > > Suppose that at 11:58 a.m. some far sighted bacteria realize that they are > running out of space and consequently, with a great expenditure effort and > funds, they launch a search for new bottles. (Snip time dated material) > and at 11:59 a.m. they discover three new empty bottles. Great sighs of > relief come from all the worried bacteria, because this magnificent > discovery is three times the number of bottles that had hitherto been > known. This discovery quadruples the total space resource known to the > bacteria. Surely this will solve the problem so that the bacteria can be > self-sufficient in space. > > 3. How long can the bacterial growth continue if the total space resources > are quadrupled? Answer: Two more doubling times (minutes). See below. > > 11:58 am Bottle 1 is 1/4 full > 11:59 am Bottle 1 is 1/2 full > 12:00 noon Bottle 1 is full > 12:01 pm Bottle 1 and 2 are both full > 12:02 pm Bottles 1,2,3,4 are all full > > Well there it is. Sorry it is so long but it illustrates an imporatant > point about our ability to preceive a problem with something in exponential > growth and still have time to do something about it. After pondering this > one maybe Prozac is more in order than coffee :>) Mike Miller > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 03:44:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17443 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA13550 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:18:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13544 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:18:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.44.22.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.44.22]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22507; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380EA3BE.DC05E4EE@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:25:19 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Cole, Ralph" CC: "'Anita Graf (Staff)'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: free range and land grants References: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE494363@KNOXEX1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3332 yep, yep, just what I have been saying for a long time. Extension is agin us Cole, Ralph wrote: > One of our chicken customers (who just moved to Tennessee from New York) > called the extension agent to ask where she could find fresh organic > produce. The answer: "You don't want that. It doesn't look very good." > This customer lives in the county where the vegetable experiment station is > located, and drives 45 minutes each way to buy pastured chickens from us. > > > > What are they smoking in their pipe up their at the land grant in NC? > [Cole, Ralph] I thought NC was supposed to be the hotbed of > organoculture in the southeast? > > > I was told by a professor here (UGA) in the poultry program that not > > only was there no difference between pasture and caged birds, but > > that the only explanation for people who buy organic is "some people > > with a lot of discretionary income find some (ehem) very > > *interesting* ways to spend it." There is definately a strong > > paradigm (dogma?) here at the landgrants which make it rare to hear a > > differing opinion/answer, no matter what contrary evidence may be out > > there. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 07:08:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18420 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28162 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:44:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28061 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from akmcgsp.ihug.co.nz (p35-max9.dun.ihug.co.nz [216.132.34.163]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA27496; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:42:43 +1300 Message-ID: <380EEDF8.730A@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:42:00 +1300 From: bernard smith Reply-To: akmcgsp@xtra.co.nz Organization: Clann McGillicuddy X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Population Growth & Sustainability References: <3.0.6.32.19991020120951.008adbf0@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3333 mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: Snip background to bacteria colony reaching its limits rapidly... > 11:58 am 1/4 full > 11:59 am 1/2 full > 12:00 noon full > > Suppose that at 11:58 a.m. some far sighted bacteria realize that they are > running out of space and consequently, with a great expenditure effort and > funds, they launch a search for new bottles. (Snip time dated material) > and at 11:59 a.m. they discover three new empty bottles. Great sighs of > relief come from all the worried bacteria, because this magnificent > discovery is three times the number of bottles that had hitherto been > known. This discovery quadruples the total space resource known to the > bacteria. Surely this will solve the problem so that the bacteria can be > self-sufficient in space. > > 3. How long can the bacterial growth continue if the total space resources > are quadrupled? Answer: Two more doubling times (minutes). See below. > > 11:58 am Bottle 1 is 1/4 full > 11:59 am Bottle 1 is 1/2 full > 12:00 noon Bottle 1 is full > 12:01 pm Bottle 1 and 2 are both full > 12:02 pm Bottles 1,2,3,4 are all full i suspect that those who found the new bottles wouldn't be too concerned with hanging around to save all their buddies, it would be far more efficient for just maybe 4 or 8 of them to take off and colonise each. there's not enough room in spaceships these days, you know, let alone enough resources to make enough of them to shift 3/4 of a jar full of bacteria. each new bottle would eventually reach its carrying capacity some time many generations off in the future, in which time of course a few with access to the resources would probably once more make it off, but not with enough time, or ability, to save everyone... somewhere along the way they're bound to discover cold fission too, and that'll make everyone happy and fulfilled, like on the telly. ok, bernard. -------- people who govern are strangers to me and i'm a stranger to them too presumably they don't know you that's why they do the job they do... (tall dwarves) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 08:15:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19821 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18892 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:58:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18888 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-5-42.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.42]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA03805; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:57:22 -0500 Message-ID: <002601bf1bbd$91167440$2a5f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "vera" , Subject: Re: rats in pig barns Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:11:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3334 Seasonal production (allows breaks in disease cycles and equipment rest), green grass (or preferebly clover with pigs), a good rotation of pastures (ample rest periods between groups of pigs--ie pigs are part of a grass or crop farms rotation.), and properly adjustable feeders will cure almost every problem you mention. Good luck, Greg Gunthorp -----Original Message----- From: vera To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 9:56 PM Subject: rats in pig barns >1. Does anyone know effective means by which to control rats in outdoor >swine system production systems? > >2. Can wood be used in outdoor swine systems for platforms on which the >pig can stand? I ask the question from the point of view as to whether >the wood material can be disinfected between different pig group uses. > >Nila > > >To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command >"unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". >To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command >"subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > >All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: >http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 08:41:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20071 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01243 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:20:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from portal.txcyber.com (IDENT:root@portal.cy-net.net [205.140.147.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01167 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: flylo@txcyber.com Received: from flylo (ppp288.cy-net.net [208.21.195.97]) by portal.txcyber.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20666 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:18:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199910211218.HAA20666@portal.txcyber.com> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:08:49 -0500 Subject: Free use of group notes X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3335 A couple of days ago I mentioned that this web address (www.bagelhole.com) was gleaning information from the various usegroups. They seem to think that if information is freely given over one group's listings, it's available for anyone to use once posted. My understanding has always been that a post is more or less like a letter to a person. If the sender gives permission, it can be posted or read elsewhere, but the originator of the post (and the recipiants) should have some knowledge about where it's going. Any comments. (No one chose to comment on my first post, but now that a follow up has arrived, maybe someone else has a view.) ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: Bagelhole1@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:43:37 EDT Subject: Re: No Subject To: flylo@txcyber.com In a message dated 10/18/99 2:52:29 PM, No-Email- Given@nowhere.none writes: <> Dear Addy, all these ideas are gleaned from the internet. I am assuming people are sharing these ideas because they want people to know. This alleviates me from the task of having to get permission from everyone ( I know I need permission where copywrited). I try to credit it wherever possible. This list is not about personalities , its about sharing info in the most efficient manner possible. Its a site that is for everyone, to the glory of none. I hope you understand, Tom O ------- End of forwarded message ------- Martha, (Texas) http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/index.html See TexCat Web page: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Fields/5505/Texcat_home.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 08:49:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20176 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01469 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:20:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01410 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-5-42.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.42]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA04543; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:19:34 -0500 Message-ID: <004401bf1bc0$aaa0d100$2a5f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Anita Graf (Staff)" , Cc: Subject: Re: free range and land grants Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:34:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3336 You should have seen the reply I got from the brain factory. I know he is right that I have little respect for the largely biased work that is done there. (I know some good is done but by and large my tax dollars go to fund a bureaucracy that promotes an industrial, multi-national corporation controlled agriculture.) And yes, I've been to DC several times to talk with REE and ARS people about the purpose of their mission. Anybody point me in the direction of places that document the CLA level of grass fed chicken eggs? Also, are these people going to admit that store boughten, industrialised food is generally of very poor quality with regards to freshness? Its a symptom of the system and all the research in the world is not going to change the number of steps and middle man that our non direct to consumer food system has created. Its time for change--both on the farm and at the land grants. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Family farm activist PS still making enemies I'm afraid....oh well..I don't have to be PC as I don't have to worry about industrialised ag funding pouring in or not because of my lack or desire to promote their agenda. When are the experts going to get around to talking about the economic, environment, and social devestation these industrialised food complexes are creating? Andy Lee summed up the economics so well of free range versus confinement eggs. Hogs are the same way. Milk cows are too. Its interesting to see who has what to gain with the continued consolidation of agriculture. Do the experts not care about the very people they are supposed to be serving? -----Original Message----- From: Anita Graf (Staff) To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 10:19 AM Subject: free range and land grants Greg Gunthorp asks: > What are they smoking in their pipe up their at the land grant in NC? I was told by a professor here (UGA) in the poultry program that not only was there no difference between pasture and caged birds, but that the only explanation for people who buy organic is "some people with a lot of discretionary income find some (ehem) very *interesting* ways to spend it." There is definately a strong paradigm (dogma?) here at the landgrants which make it rare to hear a differing opinion/answer, no matter what contrary evidence may be out there. When seeking guidance from these places, that should be kept in mind. Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 09:25:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20826 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18112 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:50:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18022 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id HAA13568; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:48:38 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xmaq13361; Thu, 21 Oct 99 07:48:27 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:47:35 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFA6@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Roberto Verzola'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:47:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3337 Roberto, >> As difficult as it is, public debate on GMO use, and other >> agricultural issues is essential in order to formulate public >> policy... > For GMOs, once they are out, it is extremely difficult to > recall them. Risk/benefit analysis may work with chemicals or > nuclear power, which have half-lifes, but GMOs have doubling-times, > and the risks double as the GMO population doubles. Given enough > doubling-times, even infinitisimally-small risks will eventually > approach near-certainty. What you are implying is probably true for a few (currently theoretical) situations. For example, the industry won't develop herbicide resistant sorghum for just this reason. The threat comes from expression of the construct in the context of a particular plant/environment system. Wild relatives such as johnsongrass and shattercane competitive in the agroecosystem create this risk. But in the absence of a wild relative and a niche conferring competitive advantage, it is hard to imagine what you mean. After all, the components of these constructs (antibiosis genes, promoters) have been floating around in the environment for millions of years. If combinations of these are so competitive, so virulent, how come we don't see them? The truth is that these terrible life forms ARE with us, but we accept them because we regard them as "natural." The competitive, fecund, predatory species have been honed by millions of years of evolution to be as powerful as they can be. The important new chip in all this is the agroecosystem (not transgenics). This has led, for example, to the dominance of a small set of aggressive species adapted to colonize disturbed habitats (our common nemesis in agriculture). I maintain that the risk that we can produce by dinking around with genes and promoters (accelerating evolution) is risk to the agroecosystem, not nature at large. So the risk of making and dispersing Roundup-ready SORGHUM would be crossing into, and increased fitness of weeds that are already dangerous in the agroecosystem. But expression of such events would be expected to DECREASE fitness in environments other than the row-crop system. Over-expression of genes has a cost. But the thread was about Bt corn. In what way to do you think Bt corn is going to get out and proliferate across the landscape? Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 09:31:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20936 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26038 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:04:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26033 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA01356; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:02:42 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma000470; Thu, 21 Oct 99 08:02:08 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:02:08 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFA9@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Douglas Hinds'" Cc: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Re[2]: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:02:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3338 Douglas, MM>> this particular aspect of the report seems to me to be a MM>> "solution" looking for a "problem". > Agreed. The relationship is dubious at best. Dubious?? Don't you think that insect invasion of maize ears increases ear rot? Munkvold proved that insect control via Bt corn reduces fumonisin levels in the grain, but everyone would have guessed that anyway. It is kind of a no-brainer. > DW> we have been working on low mycotoxin corn for a some time > DW> (different approaches besides Bt). > > Please elaborate. What approaches? I can't elaborate too much because I don't know how much of this is secret. It turns out that it is easier to direclty destroy the mycotoxin using genetic approaches than to completely prevent invasion of the ears by Fusarium moniliforme. The new corns exhibit much lower mycotoxin levels, and should reduce throat cancer. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 09:34:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21008 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27998 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:10:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kderes1.kde.state.ky.us (kderes1.kde.state.ky.us [162.114.24.111]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27964 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:10:48 -0400 (EDT) From: awiediger@Hart.k12.ky.us Received: by KDERES1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:09:59 -0400 Message-ID: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Free range eggs Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:57:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3339 > ---------- > From: Andy Lee & Pat Foreman[SMTP:goodearth@rockbridge.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 4:53 PM > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: Free range eggs > > > > > > We need a new paradigm if we are to design and build farms that our > children > will want to own. > Totally agreed. > A $1 per dozen profit IS realistic, and what's more, it is NECESSARY, if > we > are to keep our farms profitable, for this generation and the next. Disagree here - it may be possible some places, but not here in South Central Kentucky. We just raised our process to $1.25/dozen at the farmers' market and met a lot of resistance. We may raise to $1.50 next year - but we'll lose customers. At $2.00/dozen or higher, we'd come home with most of our eggs. > Jim, you > might be correct in saying that performance will suffer. Perhaps we can't > produce as many eggs per hen as the commercial people can. But, why would > we > want to? The commercial paradigm burns out the hens, burns out the farmer, > and gives the consumer a pale, soft and watery egg that has no flavor and > probably very little nutritional value. > I agree, the product is far superior. We won't buy eggs any more. If our hens stop laying in the middle of the winter, we do without until February light levels start them again. But when the grocery stores run specials of 39 cents a dozen, it's a hard sell for a lot of consumers. > Consumers will pay $2 per dozen, and more. > Andy Lee > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 09:52:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21423 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06737 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:25:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06723 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.55] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:23:17 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:20:54 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <10347.991021@acnet.net> To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re[2]: monsters that change? X-Sender: Douglas Hinds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3340 Hello Roberto, Good Post! Friday, October 15, 1999, 1:28:41 AM, you wrote: ... RV> I had been thinking, actually, of writing a piece I'd entitle: "How do RV> you slay a corporation?" Our ancestors could slay the biggest monster RV> of their time, the wooly mammoth. The biggest monsters of our time are RV> corporations. ... RV> A wounded elephant is very dangerous. A wounded corporation is RV> even more so. We now learning how to inflict wounds on a RV> corporation, but we have not learned yet how to slay one. But RV> we're getting there. Soon, I hope. RV> Roberto Verzola It is very difficult to slay a corporation and the idea is not very compatible with sustainability. Think of them as pests, which you don't try to eradicate, but rather control; and the best way to do that is by establishing a healthy environment, on a global (literally and figuratively) scale, as well as implementing a strategy specific to the characteristics of the particular pest and it's needs and habits. While corporations obviously have ample means to work against this, the battle is there to be waged, from within and without. "Winning" requires being as well organized and efficient as a corporation, but in a more inclusive, comprehensive way. The "system" is more than what "they" take into account, and this is both the strength and weakness of the corporations. By limiting their focus and ignoring long term and wide spread damages, they can concentrate on short term and locally (i.e., good for the corporation, according to their own convoluted criteria) concentrated benefits. However, in the long term, the very factor of being exclusive is what generates "better", more universal alternatives outside of it, that focus on issues that while harder to define, culminate in a sense of the quality of life and even, of life versus death. The best case in point that comes to mind is that of big tobacco, It took a while, but they seem to be judicially dead, at least for now and in only some jurisdictions. This is all good theory but in practice, of course SOMEONE has to wage the battle and it will take a lot of unity on the part of many to accomplish this goal - just like the way a corporation works, with different, more limited goals. Dale may say that the goals of a "good" corporation are no different and he may be right. The problem is, for them to get to be good, they have to get their asses good and kicked once in a while. Right Dale? They don't do it alone. They do it in the context they are really in, once that's made known to (not by) them. Although they may deny that (which isn't important - the element of control is). In the end, the corporations are made up of people and you are right Roberto, in that people can lose control. When that happens, this must be corrected from without, in order for the people within to BE people again. Douglas Hinds CeDeCoR, A.C. dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 09:59:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21576 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:58:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05638 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:20:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kderes1.kde.state.ky.us (kderes1.kde.state.ky.us [162.114.24.111]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05546 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:20:29 -0400 (EDT) From: awiediger@Hart.k12.ky.us Received: by KDERES1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:19:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Cc: Ken@poultry.poulsci.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: free range and land grants Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:07:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3341 Amen, amen and again, amen. But, there is so much bureaucracy and money against that ever happening! We got a grant from the farm bureau to put up a coldframe for winter salad production (no heat in our zone 6 climate), but we were very careful NOT to say anything in the request to suggest that we are organic (Kentucky Certified) because we figured they'd die before they funded an organic project. Alison Wiediger Au Naturel Farm Smiths Grove, KY > ---------- > From: Greg & Lei Gunthorp[SMTP:hey4hogs@kuntrynet.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 7:34 AM > To: Anita Graf (Staff); sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Cc: Ken@poultry.poulsci.ncsu.edu > Subject: Re: free range and land grants > > You should have seen the reply I got from the brain factory. I know he is > right that I have little respect for the largely biased work that is done > there. (I know some good is done but by and large my tax dollars go to > fund > a bureaucracy that promotes an industrial, multi-national corporation > controlled agriculture.) And yes, I've been to DC several times to talk > with REE and ARS people about the purpose of their mission. > > Anybody point me in the direction of places that document the CLA level of > grass fed chicken eggs? Also, are these people going to admit that store > boughten, industrialised food is generally of very poor quality with > regards > to freshness? Its a symptom of the system and all the research in the > world > is not going to change the number of steps and middle man that our non > direct to consumer food system has created. > > Its time for change--both on the farm and at the land grants. > > Best wishes, > Greg Gunthorp > Family farm activist > > PS still making enemies I'm afraid....oh well..I don't have to be PC as I > don't have to worry about industrialised ag funding pouring in or not > because of my lack or desire to promote their agenda. When are the > experts > going to get around to talking about the economic, environment, and social > devestation these industrialised food complexes are creating? Andy Lee > summed up the economics so well of free range versus confinement eggs. > Hogs > are the same way. Milk cows are too. Its interesting to see who has what > to gain with the continued consolidation of agriculture. Do the experts > not > care about the very people they are supposed to be serving? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anita Graf (Staff) > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 10:19 AM > Subject: free range and land grants > > > Greg Gunthorp asks: > > > What are they smoking in their pipe up their at the land grant in NC? > > I was told by a professor here (UGA) in the poultry program that not > only was there no difference between pasture and caged birds, but > that the only explanation for people who buy organic is "some people > with a lot of discretionary income find some (ehem) very > *interesting* ways to spend it." There is definately a strong > paradigm (dogma?) here at the landgrants which make it rare to hear a > differing opinion/answer, no matter what contrary evidence may be out > there. When seeking guidance from these places, that should be kept > in mind. Anita > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 11:11:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23266 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07156 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:30:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07130 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.43] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:23:20 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:18:47 -0400 Subject: rough roosters From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991021142320191.AAC241@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.43]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3342 > > Does anyone know how to keep a rooster from being so rough on the > hens? Mine break the feathers on their backs and pull the feathers off > the sides of their heads. I really don't want to increase the flock size > but 10 hens just aren't enough to keep him satisfied. > Best Regards, Edna Hi Edna, you are correct that ten hens aren't enough to keep a good rooster busy. There are of course, commercial ways to reduce hen damage. You can clip the roosters beak, and you can clip the toe nails. However, a more likely management scenario would be to separate him from the hens for two week periods, then give him visitation rights only on every other Saturday. This gives the biddies some rest and a chance to heal. Or, if he is really mean, chop him and get a nice docile rooster like a New Hampshire or Buff Orpington. Regards, Andy Lee To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 11:47:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24021 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23541 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:05:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23486 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hertford.ces.state.nc.us (hertford.ces.state.nc.us [207.4.227.68]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08371 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:03:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hertford.ces.state.nc.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24605; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:03:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Byron Simonds Message-Id: <991021110326.ZM24603@hertford.ces.state.nc.us> In-Reply-To: Edna M Weigel "insect (true bug) control on pistachios" (Oct 20, 3:49pm) References: <19991020.164401.3502.0.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Edna M Weigel , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: insect (true bug) control on pistachios MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3343 People, People, that is the wrong approach! Call the agent and bother him/her until an satisfactory answer is obtained. Without input from the public, ie. questions/concerns, the University/Extension service will not know what direction to focus research/resources. There are no answers if there are no questions, only status quo. Regards, Byron Simonds, Ag Extension Agent, Nc Cooperative Extension Service On Oct 20, 3:49pm, Edna M Weigel wrote: > Subject: insect (true bug) control on pistachios > Dear SANETers: > I have a new friend who purchased a pistachio orchard and wants > to convert to organic methods. Their first harvest had severe damage > from leaf-footed plant bugs, stink bugs, and lygus bugs leaving some of > the nuts off tasting. Other pistachio growers in her area (high desert > in Arizona) spray with Pounce. > I know almost nothing about pistachios and I haven't been > especially successful at controling the occassional outbreaks of any kind > of sucking bugs (that is true bugs) in my own garden. Can any of you > help? I don't want to send her to our county agent who is NOT > sympathetic to organic concepts. Are there some cultural things she can > do? Are there some organic controls available? I will forward any > suggestions to her. > Best Regards, Edna > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >-- End of excerpt from Edna M Weigel -- Byron Simonds E-Mail : bsimonds@hertford Internet: bsimonds@hertford.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (252) 358-7822 Fax : (252) 358-7880 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 11:53:59 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24156 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01935 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:23:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01884 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:26:22 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.103] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AFCE8CAF0074; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:22:54 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:20:54 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Organic --- extension & land grants Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3344 Organic and quasi organic farmers should just get on with building their businesses and caring for their land. If you need a grant to do it, it's probably not sustainable anyway. Don't worry about recognition from extension and land grants. If you do a good and sustainable job without always coming to the public teat you might eventually attract their attention anyway. Don't bother trying to imitate the folly of the broader organic industry in the US, much of which sought an ego-boost in the form of government legislation recognising organics. The resulting boondoggle may yet make it into the annals of history as the biggest and most domineering bureaucracy ever developed for such a marginal segment of an industry. Looking for acknowledgement from extension and land grants seemingly repeats the same errors, albeit on a smaller scale. If you've got an interested and cooperative ag rep / extension agent, great. If not, don't waste your time. Darrell Norton, director of the USDA's National Soil Erosion Research Laboratory at Purdue, put it very succinctly --- " A lot of extension people stop learning when they finish their degrees." [Wisconsin Agriculturalist, May 1998] Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 12:21:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24698 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11927 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:41:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chowan.ces.state.nc.us (chowan.ces.state.nc.us [207.4.150.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11859 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by chowan.ces.state.nc.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25540; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:40:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Marjorie Rayburn Message-Id: <991021114019.ZM25538@chowan.ces.state.nc.us> In-Reply-To: Byron Simonds "Re: insect (true bug) control on pistachios" (Oct 21, 11:03am) References: <19991020.164401.3502.0.eweigel@juno.com> <991021110326.ZM24603@hertford.ces.state.nc.us> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Byron Simonds Subject: Re: insect (true bug) control on pistachios Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3345 Thanks, Byron - you beat me to it! There may be some county agents out there who don't feel "comfortable" dealing with organic agriculture questions, but they sure should be able to make an effort to find someone who can. Most extension agents (at least the ones I've met, anyway) are in the business of helping people - no matter who they are (not just working with large-scale, traditional, input-intensive conventional farmers). That's one reason why we're in Extension and not out there making the big bucks working for Monsanto or DuPont or Pioneer or Smithfield Foods. If people don't ask us the questions, we surely can't help them find answers. At least in North Carolina, NC Cooperative Extension has been making more of an effort to educate agents about organic and non-traditional agriculture, so agents are at least somewhat familiar with the issues and problems these farmers deal with so they can better work WITH them to find solutions. Marjorie On Oct 21, 11:03am, Byron Simonds wrote: > Subject: Re: insect (true bug) control on pistachios > People, People, that is the wrong approach! Call the agent and bother him/her > until an satisfactory answer is obtained. Without input from the public, ie. > questions/concerns, the University/Extension service will not know what > direction to focus research/resources. There are no answers if there are no > questions, only status quo. > > Regards, > Byron Simonds, Ag Extension Agent, Nc Cooperative Extension Service > > > On Oct 20, 3:49pm, Edna M Weigel wrote: > > Subject: insect (true bug) control on pistachios > > Dear SANETers: > > I have a new friend who purchased a pistachio orchard and wants > > to convert to organic methods. Their first harvest had severe damage > > from leaf-footed plant bugs, stink bugs, and lygus bugs leaving some of > > the nuts off tasting. Other pistachio growers in her area (high desert > > in Arizona) spray with Pounce. > > I know almost nothing about pistachios and I haven't been > > especially successful at controling the occassional outbreaks of any kind > > of sucking bugs (that is true bugs) in my own garden. Can any of you > > help? I don't want to send her to our county agent who is NOT > > sympathetic to organic concepts. Are there some cultural things she can > > do? Are there some organic controls available? I will forward any > > suggestions to her. > > Best Regards, Edna > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >-- End of excerpt from Edna M Weigel > > > > -- > Byron Simonds > E-Mail : bsimonds@hertford > Internet: bsimonds@hertford.ces.ncsu.edu > Phone : (252) 358-7822 > Fax : (252) 358-7880 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >-- End of excerpt from Byron Simonds -- Marjorie Rayburn, Area Specialized Agent, IPM E-Mail : mrayburn@chowan Internet: mrayburn@chowan.ces.ncsu.edu Phone: (252) 482-8431 Fax: (252) 482-0126 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 12:25:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24743 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:25:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13832 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:47:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.a001.sprintmail.com (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13809 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP268.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.70]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29523 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 08:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380F366E.642AFD63@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:51:10 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: insect (true bug) control on pistachios References: <19991020.164401.3502.0.eweigel@juno.com> <991021110326.ZM24603@hertford.ces.state.nc.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3346 Byron, Byron, Byron, how can you say that? It's true that requests create markets most places, but Extension is a top-down system. And at least some of us have had negative experiences seeking information out of the accepted paradigm. I, personally, have been called "full of crazy ideas," "not a farmer," and other such things by Extension agents. I even had a state level person back away from me and tell me he couldn't accept anything that wasn't "proven technology" when I tried to give him a pamphlet on the organic certification group in our state. Perhaps Edna didn't want to subject her friend to the same sort of humiliation. Alex Byron Simonds wrote: > People, People, that is the wrong approach! Call the agent and bother him/her > until an satisfactory answer is obtained. Without input from the public, ie. > questions/concerns, the University/Extension service will not know what > direction to focus research/resources. There are no answers if there are no > questions, only status quo. > > Regards, > Byron Simonds, Ag Extension Agent, Nc Cooperative Extension Service To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 12:41:52 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25037 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24395 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:06:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hertford.ces.state.nc.us (hertford.ces.state.nc.us [207.4.227.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24298 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hertford.ces.state.nc.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25820; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:05:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Byron Simonds Message-Id: <991021120528.ZM25818@hertford.ces.state.nc.us> In-Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" "Organic --- extension & land grants" (Oct 21, 3:20pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: "Bluestem Associates" , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu " Subject: Re: Organic --- extension & land grants MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3347 WAIT A MINUTE, This is toting the dog hunting isn't it instead of teaching it to hunt? On Oct 21, 3:20pm, Bluestem Associates wrote: > Subject: Organic --- extension & land grants > Organic and quasi organic farmers should just get on with building > their businesses and caring for their land. If you need a grant to do > it, it's probably not sustainable anyway. Don't worry about > recognition from extension and land grants. If you do a good and > sustainable job without always coming to the public teat you might > eventually attract their attention anyway. > > Don't bother trying to imitate the folly of the broader organic > industry in the US, much of which sought an ego-boost in the form of > government legislation recognising organics. The resulting boondoggle > may yet make it into the annals of history as the biggest and most > domineering bureaucracy ever developed for such a marginal segment of > an industry. > > Looking for acknowledgement from extension and land grants seemingly > repeats the same errors, albeit on a smaller scale. If you've got an > interested and cooperative ag rep / extension agent, great. If not, > don't waste your time. > > Darrell Norton, director of the USDA's National Soil Erosion Research > Laboratory at Purdue, put it very succinctly --- " A lot of extension > people stop learning when they finish their degrees." [Wisconsin > Agriculturalist, May 1998] > > Bart > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >-- End of excerpt from Bluestem Associates -- Byron Simonds E-Mail : bsimonds@hertford Internet: bsimonds@hertford.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (252) 358-7822 Fax : (252) 358-7880 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 12:47:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25219 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23648 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:05:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23636 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10072 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from REXD.uark.edu ([130.184.56.55]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) with SMTP id LAA02493; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:02:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910211602.LAA02493@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Rex Dufour" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:59:24 -0500 Subject: Sustainable Ag. Position Reply-to: rexd@ncatark.uark.edu CC: rexd@ncatark.uark.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3348 Good Day SANETers!, This message contains a description for a position in sustainable agriculture. Apologies for any cross postings. Please pass onto any friends you think might be interested, or feel free to post to any listserves that are appropriate. Thanks. Rex Dufour POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT Sustainable Agriculture Program Specialist The National Center for Appropriate Technology (NCAT), a private non-profit corporation with offices in Butte, Montana, and Fayetteville, Arkansas, works to promote sustainable technologies and systems, especially for the benefit of economically disadvantaged individuals and communities. NCAT seeks a highly motivated, outgoing person with a combination of work experience and training for a new Program Specialist position based in Montana. This is a full-time position in our Sustainable Agriculture and Rural Development Program (SARD). Work will be focused on our ATTRA project. ATTRA is a national, sustainable agriculture information service operated by NCAT and funded by USDA's Rural Business-Cooperative Service. Primary Duties and Responsibilities: We are looking for an individual that is highly motivated, can work with minimal supervision and has excellent interpersonal skills to work in the following areas: Policy: The Program Specialist will identify policy & macro-economic issues and initiatives at state, national and international levels as they affect agriculture, particularly small to medium-sized farms and provide input and advice to NCAT personnel about these initiatives and issues. Technical: The Program Specialist will visit farms and farmer groups to identify technical issues important to the farm community of the west and northwest, with particular reference to issues that impact the sustainable use of the arid farmlands of the west and northwest. The Montana based Program Specialist will be expected to be in regular communication with the NCAT staff in Arkansas to ensure they are up-to-date concerning his/her findings. Specialist will be expected to provide farmers, ranchers and agricultural organizations with information and technical assistance developed by the ATTRA project on environmentally sound practices for ranching, agronomic and horticultural crops. Technical experience/knowledge related to irrigation issues would be helpful. Representational: The Program Specialist will represent NCAT at appropriate agricultural venues, such as farmer and commodity groups, in the Northwest region. The Specialist will be expected to make presentations to these groups concerning NCAT activities relevant to these groups, as well as to relay feedback from these groups to NCAT staff. Representational duties may include several days per month on the road around the state of Montana and the Northwest region. This position will be required to travel at least quarterly to NCAT's Fayetteville, AR office. Requirements: Applicant should have, as a minimum, a Master of Science degree in agronomy, soils, integrated pest management, agricultural policy and/or horticulture, OR a combination of farming or agricultural policy/advocacy work and other work experien , education and training which demonstrates equivalency. Experience in commercial farm or ranch production and marketing is preferred. A demonstrated interest in environmentally sound practices and integrated farming systems, and familiarity with concepts of sustainability and appropriate technology is preferred. Applicant should be familiar with structure of agriculture issues at state and national levels as well as environmental initiatives and policies as they impact agriculture. Knowledge of international policy impacts on US Agriculture is desirable. Compensation: The starting salary for the position is based upon experience and education. NCAT offers a comprehensive fringe benefit package that includes a 401 (k) plan, health and life insurance and a cafeteria plan. The position is located in Butte, Montana. Reasonable relocation costs may be covered. Duration: The position would be available to start January 3, 2000 and is regular, full-time. Start and end dates will be negotiated based on candidate's availability and project priorities. Working Environment: The position will be based in Montana and work primarily with the SARD program and ATTRA project in the NCAT-Fayetteville, Arkansas office. . Must be able to work effectively with stress related to deadlines, communication with a distant office and multiple priorities. Application Information: This position will be open until November 5, 1999 or until a qualified applicant is found. Contact Marlene Breese, NCAT Administrative Assistant in Fayetteville, AR, at 501-442-9824 for application or send cover letter and resume to NCAT Personnel Office, PO Box 3838, Butte, Montana 59702. Qualified applicants will also be entered in an applicant pool for future openings with NCAT . It is NCAT's policy and organizational philosophy to ensure that all of our employment practices, including recruitment and hiring, will be administered for all individuals without regard to color, race, religion, sex, national origin, age, handicap, or veteran status. =================================================== Rex Dufour Associate Project Manager Approriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas (ATTRA) P.O. Box 3657 Fayetteville, AR 72702 (501) 442-9824 rexd@ncatark.uark.edu, http://www.attra.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Oct 21 05:04:15 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17862 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA07771 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:40:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07767 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id QAA13902; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:18:47 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id QAA13697; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:59:47 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910210859.QAA13697@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 21 Oct 99 12:05:37 Subject: Re: Free-range eggs and nutritional differences #3 To: kmarsh@iol.ie Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3349 > Therefore, since the >>> development of a chick embryo requires the same nutrients no >>> matter where the hen produces the egg the nutrients the hen puts >>> in are the same. >>> >>> Kenneth E. Anderson, Ph.D. > >So its just illusion when one of my children comes out in hives with >commercial eggs and can eat them until they come out of his ears when they >are home produced? Another possible reason is that some PhD's look a few nutrients as if that was all we got from the eggs (just like they look only at a few soil nutrients to measure the soil's health). I would imagine there are a thousand other micro-things in the soil and in our food which we don't even know about but which altogether makes the soil and the food complete and whole. That's why organic soil and food make us healthier although measurements show they shouldn't. Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Oct 21 05:04:29 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17866 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA07737 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:39:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA07732 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id QAA13891; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:18:28 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id QAA13696; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:59:47 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910210859.QAA13696@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 21 Oct 99 11:17:01 Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn To: WILSONDO@phibred.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3350 >> I wonder how we can do an honest "risk/benefit assessment" of >> the existence of other non-target species? How much is a >> monarch worth? Who gets to play God? > >As difficult as it is, public debate on GMO use, and other agricultural >issues is essential in order to formulate public policy. It is necessary to For GMOs, once they are out, it is extremely difficult to recall them. Risk/benefit analysis may work with chemicals or nuclear power, which have half-lifes, but GMOs have doubling-times, and the risks double as the GMO population doubles. Given enough doubling-times, even infinitisimally-small risks will eventually approach near-certainty. Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 13:34:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25904 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21320 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:02:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21287 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.122] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:59:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:56:57 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <12497.991021@acnet.net> To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re[4]: Benefit of BT Corn In-reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFA9@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFA9@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3351 Hello Dale, Thursday, October 21, 1999, 7:02:04 AM, you wrote: WD> Douglas, MM>>> this particular aspect of the report seems to me to be a MM>>> "solution" looking for a "problem". >> Agreed. The relationship is dubious at best. WD> Dubious?? Don't you think that insect invasion of maize ears increases ear WD> rot? Munkvold proved that insect control via Bt corn reduces fumonisin WD> levels in the grain, but everyone would have guessed that anyway. It is kind WD> of a no-brainer. What is dubious is that the reduced fumonisin levels underlie the corportate strategy regarding why Bt corn was developed and marketed, and that Bt toxins introduced in the corn genome represent the best (and to the thinking of many, a valid) approach toward reducing fumonisin levels - which is why I asked for further information regarding Pioneers other (and hopefully, better approaches) that you say may be "secret". Why, it may be "secret" is the real no-brainer. While GMOs can be patented, approaches of a more biological (rather then biotechnological) nature, though potentially more compatible with evolutionary organisms and the environment, are less prone to loan themselves to the kind of one sided benefits that some corporations seem to require, in order to lend a hand in the development of technologies and products more favorable for agriculture and the public good. >> DW> we have been working on low mycotoxin corn for a some time >> DW> (different approaches besides Bt). >> >> Please elaborate. What approaches? WD> I can't elaborate too much because I don't know how much of this is secret. WD> It turns out that it is easier to directly destroy the mycotoxin using WD> genetic approaches than to completely prevent invasion of the ears by WD> Fusarium moniliforme. Easier for who? WD> The new corns exhibit much lower mycotoxin levels, WD> and should reduce throat cancer. How nice. What else do the "new corns" do? Is that a secret too? Or is it just another no-brainer, the fact that NOBODY knows that yet. Does the fact that these "new corns" are never-the-less already on the market indicate a lack of responsibility on the part of the public authorities who oversee environmental and health issues? Many think so. Irresponsible science, irresponsible business and irresponsible public policies seem to go hand in hand. The wrong criteria and priorities are being given decisive weight and it's clear that Europeans have marked the path to follow on this issue, while the U.S. govt. looks for pretexts for imposing dubious products on the world market that whole, congruent people don't want. Douglas Hinds, CeDeCoR, A.C. Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, Asociacion Civil (Center for Rural and Community Development, a non-profit organization) Cordoba, Veracruz; Cd. Guzman, Jalisco & Reynosa, Tamaulipas Mexico dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 14:17:28 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27180 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13866 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:45:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from msue.msue.msu.edu (msue.msue.msu.edu [35.8.2.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13809 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from graphics.fst.msu.edu (bolinp.fst.msu.edu [35.8.60.112]) by msue.msue.msu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA33005 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:43:26 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19991021134253.0068e63c@msue.msu.edu> X-Sender: bolinp@msue.msu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:42:53 -0400 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Patricia C. Bolin" Subject: extension & land grants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3352 Okay, I can't sit here & listen to all extension services getting lumped together without speaking up. In the IPM Program at Michigan State University, we recognize that US agriculture will have to change to remain viable. We have a number of projects looking specifically at incorporating sustainable techniques into fruit and vegetable systems. True, there are growers in this state who practice "spray & pray" all season long, but there are a growing number of "conventional" growers who are willing to try new approaches, alternative chemistries, pheromone disruption, cultural controls, mass trapping, etc. etc. to manage their land in ways that minimize the environmental disruption. And extension specialists are right there, on their farms, demonstrating the new techniques, writing the "non-sustainable" grants to get the money to find the way to make the changes we need to see, as we help our growers survive the next 20 years. Several of us subscribe to this digest and attend sustainable ag conferences specifically looking for the jewels of wisdom we can bring back to our growers as we move IPM from the "conventional" end of the spectrum to the truly sustainable. And the extension agents with whom I work demonstrate a true interest and concern about helping anyone who calls them. Whew, thanks, I feel better now! --Pat-- >Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:20:54 +0100 >From: "Bluestem Associates" >Subject: Organic --- extension & land grants > >Organic and quasi organic farmers should just get on with building >their businesses and caring for their land. If you need a grant to do >it, it's probably not sustainable anyway. Don't worry about >recognition from extension and land grants. If you do a good and >sustainable job without always coming to the public teat you might >eventually attract their attention anyway. > >Don't bother trying to imitate the folly of the broader organic >industry in the US, much of which sought an ego-boost in the form of >government legislation recognising organics. The resulting boondoggle >may yet make it into the annals of history as the biggest and most >domineering bureaucracy ever developed for such a marginal segment of >an industry. > >Looking for acknowledgement from extension and land grants seemingly >repeats the same errors, albeit on a smaller scale. If you've got an >interested and cooperative ag rep / extension agent, great. If not, >don't waste your time. > >Darrell Norton, director of the USDA's National Soil Erosion Research >Laboratory at Purdue, put it very succinctly --- " A lot of extension >people stop learning when they finish their degrees." [Wisconsin >Agriculturalist, May 1998] > >Bart > ============================== Patricia C. Bolin, Ph.D. Vegetable Crop Integrator Integrated Pest Management Program Michigan State University B18 Food Safety & Toxicology Building East Lansing, MI 48824-1302 USA 517-353-3274, fax 517-353-4995 e-mail: bolinp@msue.msu.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 16:24:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00025 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01728 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:11:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01711 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14135 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPGQ5JH4; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:08:17 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:15:41 -0700 Subject: RE: free range eggs Message-ID: <19991021.115206.3454.4.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5,12,15-17 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3353 Alison said she would come home with most of her eggs if the price was $2.00. As I was reading the post, I was interrupted by a phone call from the customer who thought $3.00 was "pretty steep." After confirming I have a dozen for her, she said she'd be here in about 15 minutes. So much for the folks that insist there is no difference between factory eggs and free range... Meanwhile, I sympathize with the problem of competing with grocery store eggs. Not everyone appreciates the difference. And even some who recognize the difference aren't willing to stretch their (sometimes rather tight) food budget to cover the greater expense. If I had a larger flock, I might have problems, but my food co-op will buy them at $2.00 and sell them for about $3.00. They sell certified organic at closer to $4.00. It can be a marketing challenge, but I'm convinced buyers need to be aware of where their food comes from. I may be fortunate in knowing a number of people who appreciate cruelty free and cage free and organic... Regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 16:37:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00342 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19967 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:47:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19862 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FJY007J4XG5AZ@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:11:56 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Monsanto/water To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3354 Howdy, all-- Someone recently queried the group about Monsanto's interest in privatizing water. I just received the following; according to the story, the corporation has abandoned plans on this project. I'm scouting around for someone who has access to the "confidential company documents." I'd like to know what they are, etc. Regardless of what Monsanto ultimately chooses to do, if one corporation is thinking this, others are too. We're just not hearing about it. This goes back to the observation about the word "monster" deriving from the Latin term for "portent" or "warning." Monsanto is a good litmus, IMV, for corporate thinking at this time in history. I personally don't see them having the muscle to bring something like this off...but some other UberMultiMegaConglom well could. Monsanto didn't even have sense enough not to tinker with this culture's most sacred food (milk). Note the focus on doing environmental good in order to polish one's image. And the notion that corporations can "fix the world" for profit. I'll say something about that in another note. peace misha >Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:43:44 -0700 (PDT) >>From: MichaelP >>Subject: Monsanto (had) plan to cash in on world water crisis >> >>INDEPENDENT (London) September 26 >> >> >>By Geoffrey Lean >> >>MONSANTO, the genetically modified food giant, drew up plans to make >>billions of dollars out of the world's water crisis, confidential company >>documents reveal. The documents, seen by the Independent on Sunday, >>identify a "vast economic opportunity" for the company in impending global >>shortages of resources such as water. >> >>They outline a strategy to use "environmental issues" to "deliver strong >>financial returns" and create "a compelling possible future for Monsanto - >>financially, strategically and aspirationally." >> >>The revelation of the strategy - drawn up in connection with recently >>dropped plans to establish water businesses in India and Mexico - follows >>the publication 10 days ago of a report on the growing global >>environmental crisis by the United Nations Environment Programme. >> >>The GEO 2000 report identifies impending water shortage as the world's >>greatest environmental problem after global warming. It says that over >>one-third of the world's people already live in countries suffering "water >>stress" and that, on present trends, two-thirds will do so by the year >>2025. It adds: "The declining state of the world's freshwater resources >>may prove to be the dominant issue on the environment and development >>agenda of the coming century." >> >>The confidential Monsanto document - a "sustainable development sector >>strategy" and a "water business plan" use the same statistics and take up >>the same theme. The business plan adds that two billion people worldwide >>"still lack reasonable access to safe water" and says that this is likely >>to rise to 2.5 billion over the next decade. >> >>The document, like much of Monsanto's material on genetically modified >>foods, is written in idealistic language. The strategy paper says that one >>of its aims, as well as strengthening Monsanto, is "to help solve some of >>the world's major environmental issues and to improve quality of life in >>the process". It concludes: "We at Monsanto have been given the rare >>opportunity to enjoy the wealth of spirit that comes from doing the right >>thing while we are doing business." >> >>But the documents display a sharp sense of the gains for Monsanto, both >>now and in the future: "Initial entry into the water business will create >>US$400m in annual revenues . furthermore, extension of the water platform >>beyond the safe and healthy water business has the potential to create >>several billion dollars in annual revenue." >> >>It adds that there would be "other strategic benefits", including >>"reshaping Monsanto's image as a more sustainable and environmentally >>positive company". >> >>It goes on: "Population growth and economic development will apply >>increasing pressure on natural resource markets. Those pressures, and the >>world's desire to prevent the consequences of those pressures if unabated, >>will create vast economic opportunity." >> >>Yesterday Dr Vandana Shiva, director of the Research Foundation for >>Science, Technology and Ecology in New Delhi, India, said: "Monsanto is >>seeking a new business opportunity because of the emerging water crisis. >>Since water is as central to food production as seed, and without water >>life is not possible, Monsanto is now trying to establish its control over >>it . [as] a source of guaranteed profits. Privatisation and >>commodification of water are a threat to the right to life." >> >>A Monsanto spokesman confirmed that the company had made plans to exploit >>the world water situation but had decided several months ago not to >>proceed. "We do not like to talk too much about plans that were never >>completed," he said. But he did not rule out that the company might return >>to them in the future. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 17:22:04 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01145 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16230 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:28:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16158 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:28:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id PAA11851; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:26:52 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xmab11577; Thu, 21 Oct 99 15:26:41 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:26:00 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFAB@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Douglas Hinds'" Cc: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Re[4]: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:25:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA16175 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3355 Douglas, > What is dubious is that the reduced fumonisin levels underlie the > corportate strategy regarding why Bt corn was developed and marketed, No, the industry thought they could please their farmer/customers and add value to the seed product by controlling insect pests. I never heard mycotoxins mentioned in connection with Bt corn until the last couple months. > and that Bt toxins introduced in the corn genome represent the best > (and to the thinking of many, a valid) approach toward reducing > fumonisin levels Reduction in fumonisin and aflatoxin is a side benefit. The main purpose of Bt corn is control of ECB. But reduction in mycotoxin is politically important because it demonstrates a clear health benefit to the consumer from Bt corn. > While GMOs can be patented, approaches of a more biological > (rather then biotechnological) nature, though potentially more > compatible with evolutionary organisms and the environment, > are less prone to loan themselves to the kind of one sided > benefits that some corporations seem to require, in order to > lend a hand in the development of technologies and products > more favorable for agriculture and the public good. People have been trying to develop genetic and management strategies for ECB control for a long time. Stalk strenth has been a principal breeding objective in corn for 100 years, and part of the reason is to reduce breakage caused by ECB. Besides this, (non-transgenic) efforts to breed corn for insect resistance have been disappointing. Cultural practices have been somewhat more successful, and ECB can be controlled by insecticide application (but it is often too expensive). "One-sided" you say? Ironically, the estimates of how much value the seed industry could capture from the Bt corn market turned out to be very over-optimistic. The industry managed to produce a huge amount of Bt corn seed in a short time, driving down the premium we receive for Bt corn. Farmers get a good deal on Bt corn. I guess this is an example of capitalism working ;) Of course, the farmers got squeezed too, since they are so good at producing grain. All this contributes to lots of cheap grain. Is that in the public's best interest? I don't know. >> It turns out that it is easier to directly destroy the >> mycotoxin using genetic approaches than to completely >> prevent invasion of the ears by Fusarium moniliforme. > Easier for who? Easier for the breeder. Varieties resistant to Fusarium moniliforme are hard to find, although resistance to Aspergillus flavus seems a little easier to obtain. Corn that breaks down mycotoxin is a good tool, and this has value, especially for the grower (and eaters) of food-grade corn. Just wait till you have to meet mycotoxin standards in your grain. You think you can control these things by cultural practices? >> The new corns exhibit much lower mycotoxin levels, >> and should reduce throat cancer. > How nice. What else do the "new corns" do? Is that a secret too? > Or is it just another no-brainer, the fact that NOBODY knows that > yet. Does the fact that these "new corns" are never-the-less > already on the market indicate a lack of responsibility on the > part of the public authorities who oversee environmental and health > issues? I don't think these new varieties are on the market yet. > The wrong criteria and priorities are being given decisive weight > and it's clear that Europeans have marked the path to follow on > this issue, while the U.S. govt. looks for pretexts for imposing > dubious products on the world market that whole, congruent people > don't want. If I subsisted on corn, I would be pretty glad to have low mycotoxin varieties. No one is imposing products on anyone. Transgenic crop seed grew in popularity because farmers wanted it. If farmers are scared off by the prospect of EC restrictions, the industry will serve up non-GMO seed. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Thu Oct 21 19:19:11 1999 -0400 Received: from lovelace.usfca.edu (root@lovelace.usfca.edu [138.202.192.10]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02667 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:19:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (dialup-122-30.usfca.edu [138.202.122.30]) by lovelace.usfca.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA25480; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:56:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19991021160149.0068e1e4@dons.usfca.edu> X-Sender: bjorso00@dons.usfca.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:01:49 -0700 To: L.Jones@andtech.co.uk From: Sonya Mustad Bjorn-Hansen Subject: URGENT CALL FOR LETTERS - URGENT DEADLINE. WILL YOU PLEASE SUPPORT THE SECOYA PEOPLE IN THE ECUADORIAN AMAZON? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by luna.oit.unc.edu id TAA02667 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3356 PLEASE SUPPORT THE SECOYA PEOPLE IN THE ECUADORIAN AMAZON If you believe the Indigenous people(s) have the right to have the dignity and diversity of their cultures, traditions, histories and aspirations, appropriately reflected in all forms, and if you foster the appreciation for, and an understanding of, the value of indigenous traditions, cultures, and institutions and their right to preserve and develop their identity and culture, please read on. The following is an update on the latest situation occurring with Occidental (Oxy) Oil Company, based in Los Angeles, California, and the Secoya People of the Ecuadorian Amazon. Occidental has effectively managed to divide the Secoya community. The Secoya People urgently need support from the international community. Please sign the letter at the end of this message and send it to the addresses provided. Your letters will be most effective if sent as soon as possible because reports say that Oxy is anxious to start drilling on Secoya lands because its contract with Petroecuador says it must drill three new test wells in Block 15 by December 31, 2000. A decision might take place any day now. The Secoyas and Oxy are negotiating a Code of Conduct. Oxy resisted this at first, but is now willing to compromise on the issue although basically the Secoya delegation achieved many of its points concerning the code of conduct. Negotiations concerning the three test wells will probably commence after October 31 after a written agreement on the Code of Conduct is supposed to go into effect. If it is ratified by the various Secoya villages - the voting will be- maybe - in October. Therefore, will you please write your letters and send them as soon as you can? The Secoyas in Ecuador are an ethnic minority living in 100,000 acres of the northern Ecuadorian Amazon, in the province of Sucumbios, along the Aguarico River. They live in two communities, San Pablo and Sehuaya. They are represented by OISE, the Secoya Indigenous Peoples' Organization of Ecuador. The leaders of OISE are democratically elected by the entire tribe. However, the community is divided over Occidental's presence. The elders and women are totally opposed to any and all petrol activities. Even with these Secoya voices expressed, Occidental has completed its seismic operations. Whether oil is really there can only be determined by drilling, which hasn't occurred yet. If oil is found in Secoya land, it will, without a doubt, leave the Aguarico River - a tributary of the Amazon River - polluted, affect the uniqueness of the forest and leave the Secoya spirit troubled. Your letters of concern are important before irreversible consequences occur, locally and globally. OISE has stood strong against Occidental to insure proper compensation to the Secoya People. In September 1998, Oxy negotiated a contract with the Sehuaya community for one test well. The contract with Sehuaya divided the two communities, San Pablo and Sehuaya, mainly between September-December 1998, undermining the democratically elected OISE Secoya Peoples' representatives. The contract Occidental signed with the Sehuaya community was for US$85,000. OISE protested and sought to annul the contract, saying the company had to negotiate with OISE, and not a single "centro". In December 1998 Oxy issued a letter acknowledging that the contract with Sehuaya was annulled. More recently, Oxy has accepted the OISE argument that it must negotiate with OISE. Currently the Secoya negotiating commission includes representatives of all of the Secoya "centros", including Sehuaya, and they are acting in a 'unified' manner as they dialogue with Oxy. Negotiations on the three test wells probably won't occur until after the Code of Conduct takes effect - if it is ratified by the Secoya "centros" [villages]). These negotiations could start in November. If an agreement on the three test wells is reached, Oxy says it would use helicopters to the three proposed well-sites and extract the oil over a 20 year period all for a mere 14 days supply of oil. Yet without a doubt, serious damage, spiritually, culturally and environmentally, will occur. Just fifteen days after Occidental constructed its first base camp in the Secoya communal center of Sehuaya in 1977, a Secoya woman was raped by an Occidental employee. There was no criminal investigation. Occidental simply dismissed the man. In 1997, in exchange for petroleum-related activities on the last 45,000 acres of pristine Rainforest on Secoya land, the president of OISE was promised: 1 outboard motor, 1300 sheets of tin roofing, 44 sets of aluminum pots, 5 rolls of plastic, 50 rolls of chicken wire, 200 pounds of nails, and 200 plastic tubes, to be distributed evenly among all his people. The agreement also stated that the Secoyas would receive 1,000 Ecuadorian sucres - about US30 cents per meter of seismic test tracks cut - or about US$36,000. Despite tremendous pressure from Occidental - including bribes, trickery and lies - the President of the Sehuaya community realized his error in signing the contract with Occidental. At the end of 1998, at a community council, it was agreed that the Secoyas would stand strong against Occidental to protect and respect their culture, human rights and communal lands. OISE, the Secoya People's Organization, rejected a contract allowing Occidental to drill on Secoya land, but Occidental has refused to honor this decision. However, if signing equal rights of access is agreed between OISE and Oxy, and if a future agreement is reached between the two, Oxy would have limited rights of access for certain petroleum-related activities on Secoya lands. But still Occidental isn't listening. Occidental is one of the world's largest oil companies, with corporate assets totalling nearly $18 billion and annual revenues of over $9 billion. It produces oil and gas in twelve countries, and it is exploring for oil in twenty-three others. It is Occidental Petroleum's plan to drill for oil on the traditional land of the U'wa People(s) in Columbia whose opposition to oil exploration is so strong that they have vowed to commit collective suicide if Occidental and the Columbian government proceed to drill on their land. They prefer death by their own hand than the slow death to their environment and culture that oil will bring. Oxy has racked up a notoriously poor record on environmental and indigenous rights issues, particularly in the Upper Amazon River Basin. Their incursions into Block 15 have begun to impact Ecuador's Secoya and Siona peoples, who live on the banks of the Aguarico River in the northeastern province of Sucumbios. There are only about 350 Secoyas and 250 Sionas remaining in Ecuador. The Secoyas ask the global community to please support them against Occidental Oil Company because they cannot do this alone as they interface with the pressure from the cash economy, and encroaching, powerful modern technologies. This is a very confusing time for the Secoyas. They need and want international support as oil exploration on Indian Lands in the Amazon has proven to be a disaster. Sustainable use of local resources is simple self-preservation for people whose way of life is tied to the fertility and natural abundance of the land. Indigenous peoples frequently aim to preserve not just a standard of living but a way of life rooted in the uniqueness of a local place. Indians often say that the difference between a colonist (a non-Indian settler) and an Indian is that the colonist wants to leave money for his children and that the Indians want to leave forests for their children. Since World War 2, the culture of petroleum and its petro-dollars have devastated the Amazon Rainforest. The world's Indigenous people(s) expend much of their energy simply trying to secure their resource rights. At the end of the 20th century, the Secoya people are resisting the pressure from the cash economy and the encroaching powerful modern technologies as they struggle to preserve a precious global resource. They have the fundamental rights of indigenous people(s) to be acknowledged and respected, the right to preserve and develop their identity and culture, and to stress the importance of the right to self-determination. We all do. We, the people of the world want to act upon our social and moral obligations towards all of life. Without a doubt, the travesty resulting with Occidental's activities affects all of us. Without our support, Occidental oil company will devastate the spirit of an ethnic minority of at least 350 people and yet another rainforest. The Secoyas are an authentic Amazon nation with a precious cultural heritage and invaluable wisdom and guidance for the world. Please Note: Occidental's plan will ravage the Rainforest over 20 years all for a mere 14 days supply of USA oil. For half a century of criminal violations against Humanity rather than in relief of it, can we really settle for petrol companies to continue to act as lords of our earth and people(s)? We trust this report will ignite your passion to write a letter or send the sample letter below so that the Secoya People, represented by OISE, will receive a strong response of solidarity from the international community. The power of your pen is essential in this struggle. The Secoya People must not be pressured. Please sign and send a copy of the following letter. Thank you very much, >From a concerned global citizen. Enclosed is a sample letter in English and Spanish. Please send a Spanish letter to Ecuador. ________ Dear Every day unconscionable destruction of the Amazon Rainforest moves forward. If we understand ourselves as human species, stewards of the Earth, we must do whatever we can to protect the life of our planet and all its peoples. I am writing to demand a nondisputed moratorium for 5 years on all Occidental Petroleum Corporation's activities in Block 15 in the Ecuadorian Rainforest, imposed on the Secoya homelands. The Secoyas cannot be pressured. It is not the Indigenous way. In most native cosmologies, nature is more than a store-house of resources. Amid the endless variety of Indigenous belief, there is striking unity on the sacredness of ecological systems. What is happening to the Secoya People in Block 15 of the Ecuadorian Amazon profoundly affects the Indigenous people living there and ultimately all people everywhere. We must safeguard the cultural heritage of the Amazon to keep our world diverse. To lose the Indigenous knowledge is to have lost forever something precious and irreplaceable in our human family. To harm the Rainforest itself, we endanger all life on our planet. Petrol activities in the Amazon Rainforest, undoubtedly, continue to destroy a priceless human resource. I stand next to the Secoya voices, especially those of the elders and women, to support the safeguarding of the cultural heritage of the Secoya people. I want to insure the survival of this unique and fragile tropical ecosystem to keep our world diverse because I respect the wisdom of our ancestors 7 generations past and I respect our children and grandchildren. I want our children to know, 7 generations into the future, that my signature in this letter stands for a command to halt activities that will endanger life on our planet - in this case - the social, cultural and environmental tragedy, revering petrol above human spirit, caused by Occidental's refusal to listen and obey the wishes of the Secoya People, especially those of the elders and women. It is they who know that petro-dollars can never supersede nor replace the sacred Amazon forest or their culture or their ancestral inheritance. Please join me in this commitment to safeguard the Secoya Amazon forest and culture. I urge you to do everything possible to stop Occidental's activities in Block 15 for 5 years. Thank you very much. Muchas gracias. (Your signature) (Date signed) __________________ Estimado Cada dia la destruccion desmesurada de la selva amazonica avanza mas. Si nos entendemos como seres humanos cuidadores- administradores de la Tierra debemos hacer todo lo posible para protejer la vida de nuestro planeta y su gente. Escribo para exijir una moratoria sin disputa de 5 anos de todas las actividades de la compania Occidental de Petroleos (Occidental Petroleum Corporation) en el Bloque 15 en la selva Ecuatoriana impuesta en las tierras de los Secoyas. Los Secoyas no pueden ser presionados, esa no es la costumbre Indigena. En la mayoria de las cosmologias nativas, la naturaleza es mas que una casa-almacen de recursos. Entre la infinita variedad de creencias indigenas hay una gran unidad en lo sagrado de los sistemas ecologicos. Lo que esta ocurriendo a la gente Secoya en el Boque 15 de la Amazonia Ecuatoriana afecta profundamente a la gente indigena que vive alli y fundamentalmente a toda la gente en todas partes. Debemos resguardar la herencia cultural del Amazonas para conservar nuestra diversidad del mundo. Perder la sabiduria indigena es perder para siempre algo precioso e irreparable de nuestra familia humana. Al danar la selva estamos poniendo en peligro toda la vida en nuestro planeta. Las actividades petroleras en la selva Amazonica indudablemente continuan destruyendo los invalorables recursos humanos. Yo paro alado las voces de los Secoyas, especialmente lo de los mayores y de las mujeres, para apoyar la resguardar de la herencia cultural y el bosque tropical de la gente Secoya. Yo quiero asegurar la subsistencia de este fragil y unico ecosistema tropical para mantener nuestro diverso mundo porque yo respeto la sabiduria de las siete generaciones pasadas de nuestro ancestros y respeto nuestros hijos y nietos. Yo quiero que nuestros hijos conozcan siete generaciones futuras, que mi firma en esta carta apoya un comando de parar a los actividades que causaran peligro a la vida de nuestro planeta - en este caso - la tragedia social, cultural y ambiental, reverando petrol sobre el espiritu humano, causada por el rechazamiento de la Compania Occidental de Petroleos de escuchar y obedecer los deseos de la gente Secoya, especialmente los de las mujeres y ancianos. Ellos son que saben que el dinero petroleo nunca jamas pueda reponer o devolver o reemplazar el sagrado bosque Amazonico o su cultura o su herencia ancestral. Por favor, unase a mi compromiso de resguardar la cultura y la selva amazonica de los Secoyas. Les insito a hacer todo lo posible para detener las actividades de la Compania Occidental de Petroleos por 5 anos en el bloque 15. Muchas gracias. (firma y fecha) ______________________________________________________ Letters of concern may be sent to: Personas interesadas pueden enviar su carta a: PRESIDENTE JAMIL MAHUAD de la REPUBLICA DEL ECUADOR Palacio Presidencial Garcia Moreno 1043 y Chile Quito, Ecuador Fax: (011-593-2) 580-736 E-mail: seprensa@uio.satnet.net, OISE Casilla 17-15-246C Lerida 407 y Ponteverdra Quito, Ecuador Telephone/Fax (593-2)547-516 OISE@fda.ecuanex.net.ec, PERIODICO "EL COMERCIO" Fax: (011-593-2) 670-866 Tel: (011-593-2) 670-999 E-mail: elcomercio@elcomercio.com, PERIODICO "HOY" Fax: (011-593-2) 491-410 Tel: (011-593-2) 490-888 E-mail: mhidalgo@hoy.com.ec, MINISTERIO DE ENERGIA Y MINAS Ren Ortiz, Director Santa Prisca 223 y Manuel Larrea Tel: (011-593-2) 572-011 Fax: (011-593-2) 570-359 E-mail: infomem@access.net.ec, MINISTRA DEL MEDIO AMBIENTE Yolanda Kakabadse, Director Eloy Alfaro y Amazonas, Edif. Mag, Piso 7 Quito, Ecuador Tel: (011-593-2) 563 - 430 or 563-423 o 563 -429 Fax: (011-593-2) 500-041 E-mail: yolandak@ambiente.gov.ec, UTEPA Luis Ortiz, Director Ave. Eloy Alfaro No. 4070 y Gaspar de Villaroel Tel: (593 - 2) 445 535 or 461457 Fax: (593 -2) 443-062 PROJECT UNDERGROUND 1916 A Martin Luther King Jr. Way Berkeley, CA 94703 Fax: (510) 705-8983 Tel: (510) 705-8981 E-mail: cbaldi@moles.org, RAINFOREST ACTION NETWORK Shannon Wright, Director, Beyond Oil Campaign 221 Pine Street, 5th. floor San Francisco, California, 94104 Tel: (415) 398-4404 - Fax: (415) 398-2732 beyondoil@igc.org, OCCIDENTAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION Attention: Dr. Ray I. Irani, President 10889 Wilshire Blvd. Los Angeles, California, 90024 - 4201 Tel: (212) 603-8111 Dr. Irani's home address: 388 St. Pierre Rd., Los Angeles, CA 90077 From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 20:00:12 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03137 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17616 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:33:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16946 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.4.56] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:24:48 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:36:29 -0400 Subject: organic and extension people and university types From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991021232448587.AAG350@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.56]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3357 Several postings recently have spent more than enough time bashing university types and extension personnel, and it's really a bit unfair to tar all with one brush. I'm sure many of us have attended meetings in the past couple of years where extension people were taking a leading role in introducing sustainable ag practices in their areas. All across the country, extension and university types are helping sponsor farm diversification conferences, and co-sponsoring small-farm field days. Why must we keep attacking the very ones who are trying to help us? If we continue to bash these people, who in many cases are small-scale farmers themselves, we will further alienate them and drive deeper the wedge between the old paradigm and the new. Yes, I know there are those extension and university types who are so set in the old ways they will never acknowledge us. But, based on my travels through the country over the past two years, I am sure there are more positive than negative agents out there, by a huge number. One recent posting to this list even bashed both the extension AND the organicists. In response to that message, no, it was not a search for a "ego-boost" for organics that brought USDA into the organic certification debacle. It had to do with some 44 independent certification agencies being in total conflict with one another. What products and techniques one agency would certify, another would not. Yes, the USDA has bungled the process horribly, partly because of pressure from agri-business and big-business in general. But, given the circumstances and the extreme business and personal interests involved, it may have been an impossible task from the beginning. Perhaps the outcome will be a totally independent agency to handle organic certification, and the USDA will fade from the organic scene. An analogy is the residential and commercial building industries, that until the early 70's had a independent building code in each town or county. You can imagine what a mess that created, when each building inspector had a different set of rules, and the builder needed to know all of them. That has now been replaced by 4 major building codes, one for each of the major bio-regions of the country. As for the size of the organic industry, I can assure you that any segment of agriculture that has billions of dollars in sales each year, and is increasing capacity and sales at the rate of 20% per year, is not "meager". And, I think research dollars are definitely needed by this emerging sustainable agriculture industry. A case in point is the question of nutritional value of free range eggs versus conventionally grown eggs. There is no scientific answer, because the question has never been addressed in a scientific way. All the evidence we have right now is anecdotal, which is certainly good enough for me, but doesn't appease the scientists among us. This would be an excellent proposal for a SARE grant application. Let's make money available to a farmer and a scientist to find out if the free range eggs are hype, or are there truly some beneficial properties in these eggs that make them worth the price people are willing to pay. Finally, I want to point out that when most of us refer to Free Range eggs we are in fact talking about the real thing. Unfortunately, the USDA definition says the birds have to have access to the out-of-doors. It doesn't say from what age, for how many hours per day, or what type of "out-of-doors", or what stocking rate per acre, or what type of forage has to be available. As a result, a lot of what are called Free Range products are not, period. Same thing with organic certification of eggs that come from caged or loose housed layers. This is in my opinion a travesty. Just because they get fed "certified organic" feed doesn't make the product organic if the birds don't have fresh forage, sunshine, exercise, and freedom to move around at will. It's just not an organic system unless the whole system is organic. Regards, Andy Lee To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 21:34:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04435 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15729 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:05:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15695 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp104.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.104]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D66B61756; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000601bf1c28$ff79b8a0$689144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" , "sanet" References: <19991021232448587.AAG350@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.56]> Subject: Re: organic and extension people and university types Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:01:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3358 .I think there is a difference between certified organic raised and Free Range eggs. I think u are wrong organic feed and loose housed chickens are organic not range feed. IMHO range fed can be organic and organic can be range fed. If the chickens eat only organic feed what would u call them if not organic raised? u could not call them range fed organic unless u let them range feed. easy > Finally, I want to point out that when most of us refer to Free Range eggs > we are in fact talking about the real thing. Unfortunately, the USDA > definition says the birds have to have access to the out-of-doors. It > doesn't say from what age, for how many hours per day, or what type of > "out-of-doors", or what stocking rate per acre, or what type of forage has > to be available. As a result, a lot of what are called Free Range products > are not, period. Same thing with organic certification of eggs that come > from caged or loose housed layers. This is in my opinion a travesty. Just > because they get fed "certified organic" feed doesn't make the product > organic if the birds don't have fresh forage, sunshine, exercise, and > freedom to move around at will. It's just not an organic system unless the > whole system is organic. > > Regards, > > Andy Lee > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 21 22:01:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04708 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03649 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:29:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03562 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl-67ppp91.epix.net [199.224.67.91]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999100101/PL) with ESMTP id VAA21609; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:28:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380FBF39.F91F8CFE@epix.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:34:50 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Patricia C. Bolin" CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: extension & land grants References: <3.0.32.19991021134253.0068e63c@msue.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3359 Pat, Thanks for addressing this issue. My strategy as a sustainable farmer is to get extension agents involved on my farm. It started a few years ago with including them in a SARE Grant. Now I have them doing variety trials (which is somewhat of a neutral issue when thinking about farming philosophies) and then they get to see first hand how a successful sustainable farm operates. I really appreciate how my extension agents have sincerely helped me over the years. Once a mutual respect has been developed, the door is wide open for extention agents to openly search for sustainable options if they haven't already. I once was elated that one of my agents went to a sustainable ag conf. only to have the keynote speaker blast extension as being worthless. This is not the strategy needed to advance sustainable ag. We need to build bridges and not make war. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 03:13:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA07892 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:13:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11060 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:30:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from roazhon.inra.fr (roazhon.inra.fr [192.93.140.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10973 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agronomie7 (agronomie7 [192.93.140.16]) by roazhon.inra.fr (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA01696 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:31:20 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991022081832.00cad344@roazhon.inra.fr> X-Sender: derwerf@roazhon.inra.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) [F] Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:18:32 +0200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Hayo van der Werf Subject: Re: Monsanto/water In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id CAA10994 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3360 Bonjour, This time I do not see what you worry about. Some companies sell electricity, some sell water. Nothing new here. If Monsanto wants to sell water like many other private companies already do, so what? Hayo van der Werf A 10:11 21/10/99 -0700, vous avez crit : >Howdy, all-- > >Someone recently queried the group about Monsanto's interest in >privatizing water. I just received the following; according to the >story, the corporation has abandoned plans on this project. > >I'm scouting around for someone who has access to the "confidential >company documents." I'd like to know what they are, etc. > >Regardless of what Monsanto ultimately chooses to do, if one >corporation is thinking this, others are too. We're just not hearing >about it. This goes back to the observation about the word "monster" >deriving from the Latin term for "portent" or "warning." Monsanto is >a good litmus, IMV, for corporate thinking at this time in history. I >personally don't see them having the muscle to bring something like >this off...but some other UberMultiMegaConglom well could. Monsanto >didn't even have sense enough not to tinker with this culture's most >sacred food (milk). > >Note the focus on doing environmental good in order to polish one's >image. And the notion that corporations can "fix the world" for >profit. I'll say something about that in another note. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hayo M.G. van der Werf Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique Unit Sol et Agronomie de Rennes-Quimper ENSAR - 65, rue de Saint Brieuc F 35042 Rennes FRANCE Tlphone +33 2 99 28 27 09 Fax +33 2 99 28 72 30 Adresse lectronique : Hayo.vanderWerf@roazhon.inra.fr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 04:16:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08697 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:16:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA00148 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:49:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00132 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.19] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:47:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:44:43 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <8114.991022@acnet.net> To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re[6]: Benefit of BT Corn In-reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFAB@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFAB@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3361 Hello Dale, Thursday, October 21, 1999, 2:25:56 PM, you wrote: DW> Douglas, >> What is dubious is that the reduced fumonisin levels underlie the >> corportate strategy regarding why Bt corn was developed and marketed, DW> No, the industry thought they could please their farmer/customers and add DW> value to the seed product by controlling insect pests. You mean capture a customer base by building in something they themselves didn't sell, and because they lack a developed sense of the integral natural of biological systems. DW> I never heard mycotoxins mentioned in connection with Bt corn DW> until the last couple months. That's why it was said that it was a solution looking for a problem. >> and that Bt toxins introduced in the corn genome represent the best >> (and to the thinking of many, a valid) approach toward reducing >> fumonisin levels DW> Reduction in fumonisin and aflatoxin is a side benefit. The main purpose of DW> Bt corn is control of ECB. But reduction in mycotoxin is politically DW> important because it demonstrates a clear health benefit to the consumer DW> from Bt corn. And attempts to produce a more convincing sales pitch, within a sea of unanswered questions about the medium and long terms effects on human health and the environment while playing dice 'em and spice 'em with the myriad of genetic "components" suddenly "liberated" from their evolutionary contexts. As they say down south " hay que chingar pero dejar satisfecho); (translated: the name of the game is screw 'm but leave 'em satisfied). >> While GMOs can be patented, approaches of a more biological >> (rather then biotechnological) nature, though potentially more >> compatible with evolutionary organisms and the environment, >> are less prone to loan themselves to the kind of one sided >> benefits that some corporations seem to require, in order to >> lend a hand in the development of technologies and products >> more favorable for agriculture and the public good. DW> People have been trying to develop genetic and management strategies for ECB DW> control for a long time. Stalk strenth has been a principal breeding DW> objective in corn for 100 years, and part of the reason is to reduce DW> breakage caused by ECB. Besides this, (non-transgenic) efforts to breed DW> corn for insect resistance have been disappointing. Cultural practices have DW> been somewhat more successful, and ECB can be controlled by insecticide DW> application (but it is often too expensive). A little knowledge as the root of many evils. The presence or absence of insect pests springs mainly from environmental and nutritional factors, many of which are either man made or controlled. Their presence is often fomented by improper cultural practices (i.e monocropping, use of nonselective, wide spectrum controls that depopulate populations of beneficial organisms etc.). Resistance doesn't have to be built in, unless you're a seed company, that is; and gravitated around the corporate bottom dollar (oops, line). DW> "One-sided" you say? Ironically, the estimates of how much value the seed DW> industry could capture from the Bt corn market turned out to be very DW> over-optimistic. The industry managed to produce a huge amount of Bt corn DW> seed in a short time, driving down the premium we receive for Bt corn. DW> Farmers get a good deal on Bt corn. I guess this is an example of DW> capitalism working ;) Underestimating the effects on the market of the collective stimulus of corporate greed.. DW> Of course, the farmers got squeezed too, since they DW> are so good at producing grain. All this contributes to lots of cheap DW> grain. Is that in the public's best interest? I don't know. I don't either. I eat other things, myself. And it mainly depends on the as yet unknown medium and long term effects on human health and the environment. >>> It turns out that it is easier to directly destroy the >>> mycotoxin using genetic approaches than to completely >>> prevent invasion of the ears by Fusarium moniliforme. >> Easier for who? DW> Easier for the breeder. Varieties resistant to Fusarium moniliforme are DW> hard to find, although resistance to Aspergillus flavus seems a little DW> easier to obtain. Corn that breaks down mycotoxin is a good tool, and this DW> has value, especially for the grower (and eaters) of food-grade corn. Just DW> wait till you have to meet mycotoxin standards in your grain. I've only grown grain for my animals, and a little sweet corn. Some beans, also. Mainly it's fruit. DW> You think you can control these things by cultural practices? Probably, but I defer to the experience of others, who grow more grain. Genetic Russian roulette doesn't satisfy my concept of effective (and above all, responsible) control. >>> The new corns exhibit much lower mycotoxin levels, >>> and should reduce throat cancer. >> How nice. What else do the "new corns" do? Is that a secret too? >> Or is it just another no-brainer, the fact that NOBODY knows that >> yet. Does the fact that these "new corns" are never-the-less >> already on the market indicate a lack of responsibility on the >> part of the public authorities who oversee environmental and health >> issues? DW> I don't think these new [transgenetic] varieties are on the market DW> yet. There's still hope then. But they shouldn't have been released to the environment yet, if ever. >> The wrong criteria and priorities are being given decisive weight >> and it's clear that Europeans have marked the path to follow on >> this issue, while the U.S. govt. looks for pretexts for imposing >> dubious products on the world market that whole, congruent people >> don't want. DW> If I subsisted on corn, I would be pretty glad to have low mycotoxin DW> varieties. No one is imposing products on anyone. Transgenic crop seed DW> grew in popularity because farmers wanted it. If farmers are scared off by DW> the prospect of EC restrictions, the industry will serve up non-GMO seed. The road to hell is paved with "good" intentions - or at least what are professed to be. DW> Dale Dale, low mycotoxin is one thing, while transgenic crop seed is another. I can't disagree with your logic, because the industry WILL cater to farmers and consumers desires, as well as try to create or support same, according to it's own localized interests. SOMEONE however, must set the guidelines and mark the path, and that someone needs to rely on a much more profound and comprehensive understanding than the principle you've just stated. Douglas Hinds, CeDeCoR, A.C. Cordoba, Veracruz Mexico dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 09:01:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11107 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17726 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:25:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17695 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:25:20 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:23:40 -0500 X-ROUTED: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:23:40 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.68] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0732163c ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:23:22 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991022071117.007c5390@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:11:17 -0500 To: Subject: Re: Monsanto/water Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3362 I think the concern here is that corporations are privatizing an essential common resource and are targeting countries that are (or were until recently) likely to accede to their control. You can live without electricity quite easily (the Amish around here (USA) have been doing it for years). How long can you live without water? You can plant open pollinated seed that you raise yourself and develop varieties well suited to your area. But if a large corporation comes to your town and drills a deep well that dries up your local wells, you must either pay, die or kick out the corporation. Klaus had a post sometime back about how the privitization of the common lands in Great Britian contributed to the starvation that occured there later. Maybe if he sees this, he could post that again. Mike Miller >Subject: Re: Monsanto/water > > >Bonjour, > >This time I do not see what you worry about. Some companies sell >electricity, some sell water. Nothing new here. If Monsanto wants to sell >water like many other private companies already do, so what? > >Hayo van der Werf To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 10:32:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12696 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13628 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:05:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web605.yahoomail.com (web605.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.169]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA13576 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:05:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19991022140607.3481.rocketmail@ web605.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.8.215.69] by web605.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:06:07 PDT Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Smith Subject: forward about poll--GMO's To: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3363 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:25:28 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: Mitchel Cohen Subject: Time Mag Poll on Genetic Engineering of Foods Well folks, it's polling time again. Please forgive the double posting. This time, TIME Magazine is conducting a poll on: "Genetically Modified Foods: Are You Afraid of Eating Them? More and more food is being produced from plants and animals that have been genetically modified. Are you concerned about consuming meals made from such ingredients?" While this poll is very limited, raising none of the 40 or so other key points condemning the genetic engineering of agriculture, I recommend you dial it up at: http://www.pathfinder.com/time/daily/poll/0,2637,foodpoll,00.html and vote "Very Concerned". Like our tremendous effect on the Mumia poll, let's turn these polls around so that they accurately reflect the voices of the voiceless -- Stop Genetic Engineering, Now!!! Here are their results thus far, at 11:55 pm Thursday, Oct. 21: Very Concerned: 27.08 % Somewhat Concerned 3.6% A little concerned 3.58% Not Concerned at all 64.58% Not Sure 1.7% - Mitchel Cohen +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Free Mumia Abu-Jamal, Leonard Peltier, Lori Berenson, Ray Luc Levasseur, Sundiata Acoli! Stop Genetic Engineering! Stop Malathion Spraying! Immediate Shutdown of All Nukes! Abolish the Death Penalty, Mandatory Drug Sentencing, and Rockefeller Drug Laws! Stop Gore/Bush from Cutting Down Old Growth Forests! Stop Use of Rainforest Wood! Join the Greens. Sign up NOW! Green Party of NY: GreensNY98@aol.com Green Party USA: gpusa@igc.org / (978) 682-4353 Mitchel Cohen 2652 Cropsey Avenue, #7H Brooklyn, NY 11214 (718) 449-0037 Change the World, Save the Earth, Free Ourselves. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 10:46:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12943 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19188 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:18:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19095 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.166]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02049 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni03mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA06462; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <381072B4.E39C315B@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:20:36 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sgroff@epix.net, Sustainable Ag Subject: Re: extension & land grants References: <3.0.32.19991021134253.0068e63c@msue.msu.edu> <380FBF39.F91F8CFE@epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3364 Steve Groff wrote: > Pat, > Thanks for addressing this issue. My strategy as a sustainable farmer is > to get extension agents involved on my farm. It started a few years ago > with including them in a SARE Grant. Now I have them doing variety > trials (which is somewhat of a neutral issue when thinking about farming > philosophies) and then they get to see first hand how a successful > sustainable farm operates. I really appreciate how my extension agents > have sincerely helped me over the years. Once a mutual respect has been > developed, the door is wide open for extention agents to openly search > for sustainable options if they haven't already. > I once was elated that one of my agents went to a sustainable ag conf. > only to have the keynote speaker blast extension as being worthless. > This is not the strategy needed to advance sustainable ag. We need to > build bridges and not make war. > First let me say that I feel extension agents and specialists play a very important role in agriculture in North Carolina, and agriculture is better because of their interactions with farmers. Also, these men and women are genuinely concerned with helping farmers and gardeners with their problems. However, I've been witness to both extremes of extension agents in North Carolina as part of field days and a Soil Quality Workshop. These were considered part of continuing education, and agents could get points toward license renewals etc. There are ext. agents that want to learn about soil quality and methods of organic plant disease control. They ask interesting and thought-provoking questions, and are genuinely interested in what is being done. There are also agents who want to get their points. Nothing more. They could care less about organic plant disease control. It is easier (and more effective in their minds) to spray the correct pesticide. Nothing is black and white, however. All shades of gray exist. I'm not trying to knock ext. agents. As I've said above, these people are an important part of agriculture. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 11:30:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13801 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:30:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10193 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:00:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from torrex2.theitgroup.com ([207.247.16.120]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10187 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by torrex2.theitgroup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:57:54 -0700 Message-ID: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE494365@KNOXEX1> From: "Cole, Ralph" To: sanet Subject: RE: organic and extension people and university types Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 07:57:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3365 Yikes - I sure didn't mean to cast a nasty net around all of extension. I actually know extension folks who are gung-ho for sustainable/organic ag. But they don't live here. (At least our agents have heard of rotational grazing.) The extension service is a valuable resource, even if one has to interpret their recommendations as "standard" advice. If standard farms are going out of business, I know I don't always want to follow the standard advice. However, it is hard for us here to not feel neglected when we read about all of the great sustainable/organic/small farm things going on in Missouri, Michigan, North Carolina, and some of the northeastern states. For a state full of small farms, our state ag seems to be focused on the wrong production schemes. This may have more to do with a lack of strong sust/org leadership than anything else. I really agree with the comments by Kendra Wise and Steve Groff. It just takes extra effort for producers to educate the educators. It is always easier to gripe about the differences. But if we are following a different farming paradigm, we ourselves should be accustomed to educating. Just about all of our dealings with others require some sort of education. I have to tell the feed mill why I don't want to use their antibiotics in my feed. And we have to educate our customers in order to foster sales growth. And I certainly hope that extension doesn't go the way of the Flight Service Stations. Several years ago in a cost-cutting move, the FAA started consolidating the local Flight Service Stations. They eliminated the local weather technicians and substituted gathering weather data by automated equipment. Now, pilots have to call a central telephone number and talk to a technician who could be hundreds of miles away, to find out what local weather conditions are, and are projected to be. I really value the local contact I have with my local extension agent, and would hate to lose that. It is hard to substitute hands-on pasture walks with computer screen data summaries. Grace to you, Ralph To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 11:59:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14550 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23757 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:28:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23703 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f293.hotmail.com [207.82.251.184]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA03338 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 28674 invoked by uid 0); 22 Oct 1999 15:25:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19991022152559.28673.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 128.173.73.87 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:25:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [128.173.73.87] From: "J. S." To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: extension & land grants Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:25:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3366 Hi! Considering all the recent talk about extension, maybe now is a good time to put forth my query. First of all, I'd like to thank you all for a tremendously enlightening and informative experience I have had on Sanet. As someone with an ecology background but wanting to get into sustainable agriculture, it is a fabulous introduction and more to the issues and questions out there. Now to the meat: Awhile ago I asked if anyone knew anything about the Dutch school Wageningen and got several replies, thanks so much--they were very helpful. I have a degree in something called Earth Systems and am going to be attending Wageningen next fall to get my masters in Ecological Agriculture. I currently work for a wheat breeder. The reason I am going back to school is to be qualified to do what I want to be doing--which is working in an extension capacity helping to facilitate changeovers to sustainable practices and to establish new ecological farming paradigms. In view of the recent thread--I would like to be the person you could call up who would help you design sustainable answers to farming problems across the board. So i have two questions: 1) The most important issue is, obviously, how could I best serve you? This applies to farmers, producers, and all other people involved in the farming community. I want to make knowledge available and be involved in helping people find solutions to their farming and environmental problems-agricultural, economic, you name it. Can you all take some time and tell me what you think would be the most useful way to help make this kind of change happen? Where are the gaps? What needs to be getting done that isn't? 2) The masters program involves a thesis project which is at this time undetermined. Does anyone have any suggestions as to valuable topics, foundations interested in supporting research, favorite research projects, any agency or person who would be interested in cooperating? My personal interest is in whole farm integrated systems (because I believe the whole is so much more than the sum of its parts), but I am open to all ideas. Thank you so much. Any input will be greatly, greatly appreciated. Jane ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 13:29:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16678 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:29:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18912 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:58:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18847 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id LAA08963; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:56:32 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xmab07936; Fri, 22 Oct 99 11:55:46 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:55:46 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFB1@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Roberto Verzola'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:55:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3367 Roberto, >> What you are implying is probably true for a few (currently >> theoretical) situations. > It doesn't look like a theoretical situation to me. The U.S. > is already hugely threatened with the genetic contamination > problem, which is why you haven't exported as much corn to > Europe for nearly two years now. It is a problem that has been elaborated in peoples minds. All you are saying is that transgenics are a problem because some people think they might be. The more fundamental issue is whether the problem is real or simply imaginary. What I want from you is a plausible biological argument, not a political pronouncement. >> The truth is that these terrible life forms ARE with us, >> but we accept them because we regard them as "natural." > I presume you are referring here to GMOs. No, I was referring to ordinary weeds. > That remains to be seen. But you can't deny that genetic > contamination is already a problem today in the U.S. > It can only get worse. There is no problem as far as I can tell, other than hysteria and politicization. > Would you agree that conditions exist for the genetic > contamination to persist and even spread? No, I don't. Mainly what I want from you is a biological model of how you think this could occur. I don't think it is plausible, at least for most GMO crops. > Doesn't corn outcross easily because it is wind-pollinated? In > fact, the question should be: what makes you certain no genetic > contamination will occur? Genetic contamination of what? Oh, you mean other corn! Do you think that Bt corn is going to spread and become a weed? Really? > What does Pioneer consider a minimum separation distance between > a Bt and a non-Bt corn field to ensure contamination rates... As I have written to you privately, Pioneer is deeply concerned with this issue, and we are studying it vigorously (you would be awestruck at the scale of this research). But it is purely a response to an imaginary problem (IMO - I don't know what our official policy is!). We want to be able to sell seed to our customers, that is genuinely non-GMO seed. These farmer-customers need to be able to meet thresholds for genetic contamination set by the EC. Those European consumers who care so much about this are simply mistaken. But we can, and will provide genuinely GMO-free seed. Dale PS: We would stand on our head and recite poetry to the seed if our customers wanted that. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 13:33:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16813 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29528 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:30:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29503 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.224.149.38] (216-224-143-39.stk.jps.net [216.224.143.39]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA04810 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:28:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: fullcircle@mail.jps.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <380FBF39.F91F8CFE@epix.net> References: <3.0.32.19991021134253.0068e63c@msue.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:35:46 -0800 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Marcie Rosenzweig Subject: Re: extension & land grants (long) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3368 Hi folks, This is a topic close to my heart, and dealing with it has been painful and joyful over these last ten years. First, let me say I've been blessed to have one of the most open-minded, continuously learning, and passionate Ag Extensionists, Garth Veerkamp, in my county. I consider him a friend and mentor. His wife Randi and he were beta testers for my book Market Farm Forms. Here are some experiences and observations I've had. The way Extension agents are trained and chosen mitigates against sustainable agriculture, in general, and organic farming, in particular. Iconoclasts are weeded out in the Masters and PhD process. It's difficult to do theses and dissertations on topics that run contrary to the paradigms of the institution you attend and the advisors you seek. Politically, it's almost impossible. As long as the primary requirement for agents is a Masters or PhD in a standard agriculture school discipline, it will be difficult to find agents with strong sust.ag backgrounds. Because of the top-down nature of Extension, there is considerable pressure (stated directly in some cases) to only recommend cultural practices and solutions that have been researched and blessed by the USDA and land grant colleges. Very little research is done on organic practices. Most of the inroads have been IPM, and then, only reluctantly in many venues. My personal experience with this has been through my work with the Master Gardener program. Because of my obvious (but not militant) organic bias, I was taken aside after graduation and told I could only give the organic solution to problems if I was willing to also give the "approved" chemical solution. I've been lucky to work mostly with other farmers on small acreage using direct marketing as their primary outlet. These folks don't care that I don't have a Masters and a title. They care that I've been through what they're going through. I've also been blessed because Garth has encouraged my energy for, and participation in many workshops and conferences we've put together to help folks with small acres realize their dreams of working the land. The influence of the Farm Bureau on the support and success of any individual Extension agent and the county office is immense. Our Extension and Ag Commissioners offices cover two counties. One has a very conventional and traditional FB that believes anyone with under 15 acres is a "hobby farmer" and anyone not raising livestock or grain conventionally simply isn't farming. The other county FB is chaired by an organic vegetable grower and has a record of supporting diversified farming and ranching interests. Sustainable ag programs are viewed very differently in these two counties by the agricultural establishment. As long as we taxpayers continue to underfund higher education, research will be carried out in concert with the wishes of grant providers-read that "life sciences" corporations. Since the mission of Extension is to make University research available to the public, it can only make available what is done. Thanks to IPM programs, SARE, OFRF, and California's BIOS and BIAFS (?) programs, more research is being into sust ag and organics, but it's still only a drop in the overall budget bucket. What we value, we spend time on. Each one, teach one. For years, I've acted as the "Master Small Farmer" for market gardeners in my area through the Master Gardener program - an arm of Extension. I've found that farmers in particular value information from folks who are also working the land. This list and others have enabled me to get information on sustainable practices to folks interested in using them and to point various Extension folks in the direction of answers. I found I was most effective in "meeting people where they are." I've never told a conventional farmer or Extention Agent they were doing things wrong. I simply showed them what had worked for me. I guess, over time, my willingness to spend time and participate has given me a modicum of credibility. Marcie Marcie A. Rosenzweig Full Circle Organic Farm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 13:49:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17114 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03714 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03657 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16496 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA04227 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:23:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:23:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet Subject: RE: organic and extension people and university types In-Reply-To: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE494365@KNOXEX1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3369 On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Cole, Ralph wrote: > However, it is hard for us here to not feel neglected when we read about all > of the great sustainable/organic/small farm things going on in Missouri, > Michigan, North Carolina, and some of the northeastern states. For a state North Carolina? Where, what, by whom? There could have been if folks had started years ago with a focus on farmer-owned, farmer-run organizations, i.e. a real organic producer's trade association. But no, other greedy hands had to get into the till and feed off the efforts of those farmers who were out there really doing it, the ones that built and nurtured the organic movement from the start. Let's hear it for a revitalization of NC OCIA! At least they promote organic, not sustainable-with-a-loophole-for-Roundup-use. > I really agree with the comments by Kendra Wise and Steve Groff. It just > takes extra effort for producers to educate the educators. It is always Especially when you're trying to get them interested in organic methods, not just sustainable. Organic producers only need themselves to become successful farmers. Anything else is a waster of their time and money. Access to the Web will give them all the tech support they will need. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@mindspring.com http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture -+|+- EcoLandTech To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From mrayburn@chowan.ces.state.nc.us Fri Oct 22 14:24:39 1999 Received: from chowan.ces.state.nc.us (chowan.ces.state.nc.us [207.4.150.68]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18341 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by chowan.ces.state.nc.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09921; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:24:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Marjorie Rayburn Message-Id: <991022142458.ZM9919@chowan.ces.state.nc.us> In-Reply-To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." "RE: organic and extension people and university types" (Oct 22, 1:23pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Subject: Re: organic and extension people and university types Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3370 I am an Extension Agent in North Carolina (Area specialized agent in IPM) and have posted my comments to the sustainable ag list from time to time. I have not been in Extension for very long, only 9 years, but in that period of time I have noticed a perceptable change in attitude of Extension agents and specialists towards organic and sustainable agriculture. I do not know much about the early organic farming movement in North Carolina and I can imagine some Extension folks dismissing it and even ridiculing it. But I believe we need to focus on the present. In my humble opinion, we need to promote a conversation and understanding among all facets of agriculture - large scale, conventional, chemical dependent farmers and organic farmers of all sizes and those "sustainable" types in between. I don't believe very much progress will be made towards a more sustainable agriculture by wishing things had been done differently in the past and by criticizing or downplaying small steps towards Extension's recognition of and attempts to address a growing organic agriculture in North Carolina. We have extension specialists who are actively engaged in organic agriculture research and education from beneficial nematodes and fungi to full scale organic production systems without using herbicides for weed control and others specialists are listening and genuinely interested. I don't believe this would have happened to this extent 10 years ago. The extension agricultural economics department was involved in putting together a study of organic agriculture in North Carolina to help growers (some conventional) see where they might be able to meet a demand for high quality organic agricultural products grown locally. Over 40 Extension Agents were involved in a 4 credit hour course in Organic Farming Systems - many of the teachers were some of the better organic farmers themselves. Things are happening. I sincerely believe that conventional farmers can learn from organic farmers about less chemical dependent methods of pest control and some of the conventional farmers I work with are using chemical pesticides less frequently. A cotton grower I worked with used a Bt spray application to control tobacco budworms because he wanted to preserve beneficial insects in his field to control aphids. Sure, it is only one small example, but it is a positive step towards understanding the ecology of agriculture. At the same time, I know of an organic farmer who needed help in how to adjust a field cultivator to better control weeds and risk less damage to his crop. That information was available from a conventional farmer. Sure, we've got a lot of work to do, but let's work together instead of widening the gap between orgainic agriculture and the rest of the agricultural community. The internet is a valuable source of information for organic growers, but I believe that many questions can be best answered through an in-person, on farm visit - still one of the things Extension continues to do - with conventional and organic farmers. These are my personal opinions. Marjorie Rayburn On Oct 22, 1:23pm, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > Subject: RE: organic and extension people and university types > > > On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Cole, Ralph wrote: > > > However, it is hard for us here to not feel neglected when we read about all > > of the great sustainable/organic/small farm things going on in Missouri, > > Michigan, North Carolina, and some of the northeastern states. For a state > > North Carolina? Where, what, by whom? > > There could have been if folks had started years ago with > a focus on farmer-owned, farmer-run organizations, i.e. a real > organic producer's trade association. But no, other greedy hands had to > get into the till and feed off the efforts of those farmers who were out > there really doing it, the ones that built and nurtured the organic > movement from the start. > > Let's hear it for a revitalization of NC OCIA! At least they promote > organic, not sustainable-with-a-loophole-for-Roundup-use. > > > > I really agree with the comments by Kendra Wise and Steve Groff. It just > > takes extra effort for producers to educate the educators. It is always > > Especially when you're trying to get them interested in organic methods, > not just sustainable. > > Organic producers only need themselves to become successful farmers. > Anything else is a waster of their time and money. Access to the Web will > give them all the tech support they will need. > > > Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm > london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@mindspring.com > http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech > InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture -+|+- EcoLandTech > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >-- End of excerpt from Lawrence F. London, Jr. -- Marjorie Rayburn, Area Specialized Agent, IPM E-Mail : mrayburn@chowan Internet: mrayburn@chowan.ces.ncsu.edu Phone: (252) 482-8431 Fax: (252) 482-0126 From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 14:40:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18641 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24910 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:59:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from web1404.mail.yahoo.com (web1404.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.168]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24902 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19991022181623.9416.rocketmail@web1404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.60.23.28] by web1404.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:16:23 PDT Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:16:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stephen M. Apatow" Subject: Y2K: 86% Chemical Firms Not Ready - Communities Urged To Prepare To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3371 October 22, 1999 Contact: Stephen M. Apatow President & Executive Director, Humanitarian Resource Institute Eastern USA: (203) 668-0282 Western USA: (775) 884-4680 Internet: http://www.humanitarian.net Email: sma@humanitarian.net U.S. SENATE COMMITTEE CALLS FOR COMMUNITIES TO PREPARE FOR POSSIBLE CHEMICAL EMERGENCIES RELATED TO THE YEAR 2000 TECHNOLOGY PROBLEM U.S. chemical manufacturing, storage and transportation is a $392 billion industry. An estimated 85 million Americans live within five miles of one of the 66,000 sites that handle hazardous chemicals. According to the U.S. Senate Special Committee on the Year 2000 Problem: * 86.5 percent of firms surveyed are not currently prepared for Y2K. * 85.6 percent have not coordinated emergency plans with local/community officials. A majority have not linked contingency planning to community emergency services such as police, fire and rescue, or hospitals. * 79 percent said they had never before been surveyed about Y2K preparedness. * A majority of respondents do not belong to industry organizations or trade associations, which have been the primary gatherers of Y2K preparedness information in the private sector. * 4.1 percent said Y2K presents A potential for a catastrophic event. For detailed information on these reports and resources from the U.S. Chemical and Hazard Safety Investigation Board visit the Humanitarian Resource Institute Global Y2K Infrastructure Risks Web Site which can be found at: http://www.humanitarian.net/y2keconomic.html COMMUNITY & FAMILY PREPAREDNESS Humanitarian Resource Institute in cooperation with the FEMA Community & Family Preparedness Program has constructed a one stop Community & Family Preparedness resource guide on the internet. Included on this web site is the Preparedness Guide for Chemical Emergencies which was produced by the National Disaster Education Coalition: American Red Cross, FEMA, IAEM, IBHS, NFPA, NWS, USDA/CSREES, and USGS. Topics Include: * Why Talk About Chemical Emergencies? * What Is a Home Chemical Emergency, and a Major * Chemical Emergency? * Awareness Information * Preventing Chemical Emergencies in the Home * What to Do During a Home Chemical Emergency * Plan for Major Chemical Emergencies * Media and Communicate Education Ideas * What to Do During a Major Chemical Emergency * What to Do if You Are at the Scene of a Chemical Accident * How to Shelter-in-Place * Evacuation During a Chemical Emergency * What to Do After a Major Chemical Emergency The Community & Family Preparedness Resource Guide can be found at: http://www.humanitarian.net/prepare.html ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 14:47:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18735 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:47:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08276 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:21:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08205 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:21:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07070 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA06379; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm9-43.nidlink.com [216.18.141.98]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA24153; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910221819.LAA24153@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:31:31 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, , biotech_activists@iatp.org From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Remarkable Story re Monsanto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3372 In a remarkable report filed Oct. 22, 1999 by a reporter based in New York, the UK Guardian describes growing pressure on Monsanto to divest itself in order to return some value to investors, who have seen the company's share price fall some 25 percent in the last year. This report adds currency to a series of articles since last winter in the Wall Street Journal discussing the likely sale of the Searle unit. According to analysts, the most likely scenario will be driven by the sale of the profitable Searle subsidiary to another major pharmaceutical company for about the current value of the whole company. This will require, as well, the spin-off of the ag chemical and seed business for very little net value, because this part of the business will be stuck with the billions in debt from purchasing seed companies. The amazing quote below -- in which a Deutsche Bank analyst asserts that Monsanto's ag chemical and seed business is currently valued by Wall Street "...at nothing..." -- suggests that the still substantial profits from glyphosate sales and technology fees are expected to decline in the next few years and do little more, in the near-term, than service the debt load associated with Monsanto's seed industry purchases. The story suggests Bayer as a logical partner, other stories have suggested BASF. I think a more plausible merger is with either Novartis's or AstraZeneca's ag chemical division. Both mergers will raise some anti-trust issues, but these will be overcome with the sale of a few products. Whether the Monsanto ag chemical-seed business goes with any one or a combination of these companies, it will mean the loss of one of the three major U.S. based pesticide -seed companies. Two will remain U.S. based -- Dupont and Dow AgroSciences. Once a deal is announced involving a merger of the Monsanto ag chem division with one or more of the other major global players, the pressure will grow on the remaining companies to "get with the program" and find merger partners. Within 2 years, it seems likely that most remaining pesticide companies/divisions will merge, in one way or another, with new partners to form global businesses on the scale of Aventis; Dupont-Pioneer; Novartis and ???; Monsanto and ???; Zeneca and ??? There are some interesting possibilities on the horizon -- Will a Japanese based company make the plunge and buy one of the majors? Will a major company emerge that is focused on biopesticides and non-GMO alternatives? The restructuring of the pesticide-seed industry will almost certainly occur so fast that no one will have time or the ability to project the likely consequences on competition in major crop protection markets or on the control of germ plasm and breeding priorities. Even when the last major deal is completed, the pesticide-seed industry may not reach the degree of concentration now common in several other high-tech industries. Each merger will be built upon a multi-billion dollar bet on the technologies and products that will shape agriculture in the decades ahead. Clearly, the newly formed companies will articulate a business plan/strategy that includes a pretty substantial repositioning of genetic engineering. But if not GMOs, then what? And what will the consequences be on farm income and profitability, food safety and consumers, and the environment and sustainable agriculture systems? Another intriguing question -- environmental activism, consumer pressure and global market forces have clearly contributing to the undermining of the economic performance of today's version of an ag biotech-based "life science" corporation. But it remains to be seen whether and how these same forces will find ways to act constructively by shaping alternative corporate structures and strategies which will better meet the needs of society, the environment and consumers. Many people have found personal reasons to just say "no" to genetic engineering as recently relied upon in shaping new agricultural technologies. But will consumers and activists find a way to say "yes" to alternative approaches, technologies, and business strategies in a clear enough way to influence how Wall Street uses its enormous clout in financing this next, critical stage of corporate evolution? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Excerpt from front-page story in the UK Guardian -- "Monsanto pressured to sell off GM assets" GM food: special report Jane Martinson in New York Friday October 22, 1999 "Robert Koort, industry analyst at Deutsche bank, said that Monsanto had been forced to look at selling part of its business as it was dragging down the value of the entire company. "Monsanto might sell its agricultural chemicals business as it is currently valued [by the stock market] at nothing," he said. Analysts believe the group's share price of just over $38 is a fair value for the business without the GM part. Shares in the group have plunged from a high of $51 in May when Wall Street first realised the intensity of consumer concern. " For the full text of the article, see Ag BioTech InfoNet at -- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 14:53:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18833 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11706 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:28:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ns.rockbridge.net (ns.rockbridge.net [206.151.4.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11624 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.151.5.22] by ns.rockbridge.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59513U2500L250S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:21:12 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:33:04 -0400 Subject: Chemical for predator control From: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" To: sanet Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19991022182112591.AAA198@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.5.22]> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3373 Sometime over the past couple of months I've read an article about a chemical to mix with raw meat from livestock or poultry, and left for predators to ingest. The chemical doesn't injure the predator but makes it so sick they never want to eat that meat again. Supposedly the impact even lasts to the next generation. I've misplaced this article and would like to know if anyone else read it, where I can find a new copy, or at least find the name of the chemical, which as I recall, can be purchased from drugstores. Thank you, Andy Lee, Good Earth Farm School, Buena Vista, Virginia To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 14:58:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18905 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10556 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:26:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from chowan.ces.state.nc.us (chowan.ces.state.nc.us [207.4.150.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10437 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by chowan.ces.state.nc.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09921; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:24:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Marjorie Rayburn Message-Id: <991022142458.ZM9919@chowan.ces.state.nc.us> In-Reply-To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." "RE: organic and extension people and university types" (Oct 22, 1:23pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." Subject: Re: organic and extension people and university types Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3374 I am an Extension Agent in North Carolina (Area specialized agent in IPM) and have posted my comments to the sustainable ag list from time to time. I have not been in Extension for very long, only 9 years, but in that period of time I have noticed a perceptable change in attitude of Extension agents and specialists towards organic and sustainable agriculture. I do not know much about the early organic farming movement in North Carolina and I can imagine some Extension folks dismissing it and even ridiculing it. But I believe we need to focus on the present. In my humble opinion, we need to promote a conversation and understanding among all facets of agriculture - large scale, conventional, chemical dependent farmers and organic farmers of all sizes and those "sustainable" types in between. I don't believe very much progress will be made towards a more sustainable agriculture by wishing things had been done differently in the past and by criticizing or downplaying small steps towards Extension's recognition of and attempts to address a growing organic agriculture in North Carolina. We have extension specialists who are actively engaged in organic agriculture research and education from beneficial nematodes and fungi to full scale organic production systems without using herbicides for weed control and others specialists are listening and genuinely interested. I don't believe this would have happened to this extent 10 years ago. The extension agricultural economics department was involved in putting together a study of organic agriculture in North Carolina to help growers (some conventional) see where they might be able to meet a demand for high quality organic agricultural products grown locally. Over 40 Extension Agents were involved in a 4 credit hour course in Organic Farming Systems - many of the teachers were some of the better organic farmers themselves. Things are happening. I sincerely believe that conventional farmers can learn from organic farmers about less chemical dependent methods of pest control and some of the conventional farmers I work with are using chemical pesticides less frequently. A cotton grower I worked with used a Bt spray application to control tobacco budworms because he wanted to preserve beneficial insects in his field to control aphids. Sure, it is only one small example, but it is a positive step towards understanding the ecology of agriculture. At the same time, I know of an organic farmer who needed help in how to adjust a field cultivator to better control weeds and risk less damage to his crop. That information was available from a conventional farmer. Sure, we've got a lot of work to do, but let's work together instead of widening the gap between orgainic agriculture and the rest of the agricultural community. The internet is a valuable source of information for organic growers, but I believe that many questions can be best answered through an in-person, on farm visit - still one of the things Extension continues to do - with conventional and organic farmers. These are my personal opinions. Marjorie Rayburn On Oct 22, 1:23pm, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: > Subject: RE: organic and extension people and university types > > > On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Cole, Ralph wrote: > > > However, it is hard for us here to not feel neglected when we read about all > > of the great sustainable/organic/small farm things going on in Missouri, > > Michigan, North Carolina, and some of the northeastern states. For a state > > North Carolina? Where, what, by whom? > > There could have been if folks had started years ago with > a focus on farmer-owned, farmer-run organizations, i.e. a real > organic producer's trade association. But no, other greedy hands had to > get into the till and feed off the efforts of those farmers who were out > there really doing it, the ones that built and nurtured the organic > movement from the start. > > Let's hear it for a revitalization of NC OCIA! At least they promote > organic, not sustainable-with-a-loophole-for-Roundup-use. > > > > I really agree with the comments by Kendra Wise and Steve Groff. It just > > takes extra effort for producers to educate the educators. It is always > > Especially when you're trying to get them interested in organic methods, > not just sustainable. > > Organic producers only need themselves to become successful farmers. > Anything else is a waster of their time and money. Access to the Web will > give them all the tech support they will need. > > > Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm > london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@mindspring.com > http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech > InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture -+|+- EcoLandTech > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >-- End of excerpt from Lawrence F. London, Jr. -- Marjorie Rayburn, Area Specialized Agent, IPM E-Mail : mrayburn@chowan Internet: mrayburn@chowan.ces.ncsu.edu Phone: (252) 482-8431 Fax: (252) 482-0126 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 14:59:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18923 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17790 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:34:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hertford.ces.state.nc.us (hertford.ces.state.nc.us [207.4.227.68]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17770 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by hertford.ces.state.nc.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09265; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:32:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Byron Simonds Message-Id: <991022143239.ZM9263@hertford.ces.state.nc.us> In-Reply-To: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" "organic and extension people and university types" (Oct 21, 7:36pm) References: <19991021232448587.AAG350@ns.rockbridge.net@[206.151.4.56]> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: "Andy Lee & Pat Foreman" , sanet Subject: Re: organic and extension people and university types MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3375 Thanks for the support! I joined this list way back when it was housed at another fine university. So I have been here for some time now. The idea was to gain insight and ideas into a then somewhay controversial subject. As it turns out, not much has changed in that time. The subject of "Sustainable Agriculture" is just as complicated and controversial now as then. Sustainability in any system is a complicated process and therefore there is no "one" answer that fits all cases equally. Why? 1) People are different one from the other, 2) Management abilities are differen, 3) Interest in the crop, livestock, whayever maybe different from yours or mine, 4) Climate, 5) Soils, 6) Available resources, 7) Micro-climate, 8) Location 9)etc., 10) etc., 11) etc.........vary widely. Telling someone this is the way to do it and the only "RIGHT" way to do it would be like telling someone the only way to get to Atlanta from North Carolina is on Interstate 85. What if you were in Murphy, NC. ? You could actually get there another way before you could drive to I 85 in NC! And what about the road from where ever you are in NC. to I 85 ? There may be many routes to take and, with the recent flooding here, looking at a map may or may not get you anywhere close! USDA, the Land Grant Institutions, and Extension Service have promoted "Sustainable Concepts" for a very long time. Look at old publications from the 80's, 70's, 60's, 50's, 40's, 30's, and further. One thing you will find in common is an emphasis on cultural practices, proper variety selection, tillage methods to protect soils, fertility based on type of material, timing and plant needs. Much of this type of information was refined and expanded upon during the 70's, 80's, and 90's! Verbal bashing of these institutions is closing the door on potential information that was developed and promoted before most of us were even born. One of the bigest problems many farmers seem to have is in not seeking out more than one source of information. The most successful, however, do seek out and QUESTION many sources of information through out the year! There are no answers if there are no questions, only status quo. Regards, Byron On Oct 21, 7:36pm, Andy Lee & Pat Foreman wrote: > Subject: organic and extension people and university types > > Several postings recently have spent more than enough time bashing > university types and extension personnel, and it's really a bit unfair to > tar all with one brush. I'm sure many of us have attended meetings in the > past couple of years where extension people were taking a leading role in > introducing sustainable ag practices in their areas. All across the > country, extension and university types are helping sponsor farm > diversification conferences, and co-sponsoring small-farm field days. > > Why must we keep attacking the very ones who are trying to help us? If we > continue to bash these people, who in many cases are small-scale farmers > themselves, we will further alienate them and drive deeper the wedge between > the old paradigm and the new. Yes, I know there are those extension and > university types who are so set in the old ways they will never acknowledge > us. But, based on my travels through the country over the past two years, I > am sure there are more positive than negative agents out there, by a huge > number. > > One recent posting to this list even bashed both the extension AND the > organicists. In response to that message, no, it was not a search for a > "ego-boost" for organics that brought USDA into the organic certification > debacle. It had to do with some 44 independent certification agencies being > in total conflict with one another. What products and techniques one agency > would certify, another would not. Yes, the USDA has bungled the process > horribly, partly because of pressure from agri-business and big-business in > general. But, given the circumstances and the extreme business and personal > interests involved, it may have been an impossible task from the beginning. > > Perhaps the outcome will be a totally independent agency to handle organic > certification, and the USDA will fade from the organic scene. An analogy is > the residential and commercial building industries, that until the early > 70's had a independent building code in each town or county. You can imagine > what a mess that created, when each building inspector had a different set > of rules, and the builder needed to know all of them. That has now been > replaced by 4 major building codes, one for each of the major bio-regions of > the country. > > As for the size of the organic industry, I can assure you that any segment > of agriculture that has billions of dollars in sales each year, and is > increasing capacity and sales at the rate of 20% per year, is not "meager". > > And, I think research dollars are definitely needed by this emerging > sustainable agriculture industry. A case in point is the question of > nutritional value of free range eggs versus conventionally grown eggs. There > is no scientific answer, because the question has never been addressed in a > scientific way. All the evidence we have right now is anecdotal, which is > certainly good enough for me, but doesn't appease the scientists among us. > This would be an excellent proposal for a SARE grant application. Let's make > money available to a farmer and a scientist to find out if the free range > eggs are hype, or are there truly some beneficial properties in these eggs > that make them worth the price people are willing to pay. > > Finally, I want to point out that when most of us refer to Free Range eggs > we are in fact talking about the real thing. Unfortunately, the USDA > definition says the birds have to have access to the out-of-doors. It > doesn't say from what age, for how many hours per day, or what type of > "out-of-doors", or what stocking rate per acre, or what type of forage has > to be available. As a result, a lot of what are called Free Range products > are not, period. Same thing with organic certification of eggs that come > from caged or loose housed layers. This is in my opinion a travesty. Just > because they get fed "certified organic" feed doesn't make the product > organic if the birds don't have fresh forage, sunshine, exercise, and > freedom to move around at will. It's just not an organic system unless the > whole system is organic. > > Regards, > > Andy Lee > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail >-- End of excerpt from Andy Lee & Pat Foreman -- Byron Simonds E-Mail : bsimonds@hertford Internet: bsimonds@hertford.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : (252) 358-7822 Fax : (252) 358-7880 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 15:08:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19103 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20231 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:41:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f278.hotmail.com [209.185.130.194]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA20120 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 81642 invoked by uid 0); 22 Oct 1999 18:38:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19991022183859.81641.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 151.121.26.5 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:38:59 PDT X-Originating-IP: [151.121.26.5] From: "Kenneth Barnes" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: re: extension and land grants Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:38:59 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3376 I agree with those that say let's stop bashing these folks. Back in the late '70's through the mid '80's when I was farming full time, I encountered several extension agents and land grant researchers who were willing to help and share ideas on sustainable production. I had just graduated from NCSU with a degree in Field Crops and was eager to participate in some on-farm research. I found that the County extension agents (Hoke County, NC) were more than willing to make contact with whomever necessary to get the project done. Now that I'm trying to find a way back into farming, one of the first contacts I made was with the local extension agent where I now live (Wake County, NC). Not only did the local agent show interest, but he also brought to the farm some folks from the university (NCSU) as well. They have shown a real interest in my ideas of sustainable vegetable production, even though I am producing on a very small scale. We have already started discussing ways to possibly do some on-farm research next season. I feel that I should also mention that NCSU, in cooperation with several other southern universities, has published a vegetable production guide that lists not only conventional, but also alternative methods fo controling vegetable pests and diseases. That in itself speaks highly of all of these land grant facilities. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this: Not all extension and land grant researchers will turn a deaf ear to ideas dealing with sustainable agriculture. A lot of the negative comments some of you are hearing may be due in part to the area of the country that you live and work in. For that, there is little to be done, but please don't categorize them all as the same. They are not all bad apples! Kenneth J Barnes The Shepherd's Farm Zebulon, NC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 15:26:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19939 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:26:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29981 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:55:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gwsmtp.ohsu.edu (gwsmtp.ohsu.edu [137.53.4.219]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29958 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gwiadom1-Message_Server by gwsmtp.ohsu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:53:57 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:53:22 -0700 From: "Kendra Wise" To: Subject: RE: extension & University, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id OAA29969 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3377 I was thinking about some things that had come across the list, about how organic growers only need the internet for technical support. This seems to be a short-sighted approach for two reasons. First, if you cut the extension/land-grant university system off from organics, you reduce further any opportunity for educating these agents. Secondly, what about the people who don't farm organically who turn to their extension agents for help or information? By not educating your agents, you may be cutting others off from valuable support and information as well. I have an idea for those of you in a position to help improve the scientific literature in organic growing. Do you have questions about organics that you'd like to have original research and literature on? For example, do free-range organic eggs differ compositionally from battery eggs, and what are those differences? Call the graduate school at your state universities and offer a collaboration with their masters/PhD students. For example, you provide access to an organic farming enviroment and allow them to perform their experiments there. Plenty of graduate students are out there seeking thesis and dissertation topics, as well as the locations to do their research work. You might have a great impact on the body of organic growing/sustainable agriculture literature out there! Kendra Wise wiseke@ohsu.edu Portland, OR >>> "Lawrence F. London, Jr." 10/22 10:23 AM >>> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Cole, Ralph wrote: > However, it is hard for us here to not feel neglected when we read about all > of the great sustainable/organic/small farm things going on in Missouri, > Michigan, North Carolina, and some of the northeastern states. For a state North Carolina? Where, what, by whom? There could have been if folks had started years ago with a focus on farmer-owned, farmer-run organizations, i.e. a real organic producer's trade association. But no, other greedy hands had to get into the till and feed off the efforts of those farmers who were out there really doing it, the ones that built and nurtured the organic movement from the start. Let's hear it for a revitalization of NC OCIA! At least they promote organic, not sustainable-with-a-loophole-for-Roundup-use. > I really agree with the comments by Kendra Wise and Steve Groff. It just > takes extra effort for producers to educate the educators. It is always Especially when you're trying to get them interested in organic methods, not just sustainable. Organic producers only need themselves to become successful farmers. Anything else is a waster of their time and money. Access to the Web will give them all the tech support they will need. Lawrence F. London, Jr. -+|+- Venaura Farm london@metalab.unc.edu lflondon@mindspring.com http://metalab.unc.edu/london, /permaculture, /ecolandtech InterGarden -+|+- Permaculture -+|+- EcoLandTech To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 15:50:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20758 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11042 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:11:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11006 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pavilion (inter863.internet.com.mx [207.249.190.173]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA02463 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:04:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991022015327.0072bf04@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:53:27 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: RE: "Benefit" of BT Corn Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id PAA11007 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3378 Dale Wilson wrote: >So the risk of making and dispersing Roundup-ready SORGHUM would be crossing >into, and increased fitness of weeds that are already dangerous in the >agroecosystem. But expression of such events would be expected to DECREASE >fitness in environments other than the row-crop system. Over-expression of >genes has a cost. > >But the thread was about Bt corn. In what way to do you think Bt corn is >going to get out and proliferate across the landscape? > Well sir this is just the problem. "The industry" in its wisdom spares us the spectre of Bt Johnson grass. But Bt corn *is* spreading across the landscape. This seed is now being sold in Mexico (no government regulations because of course its 'substantially equivalet' to regular corn according to our wise FED et al.) where there are wild relative than can and are being contaminated. The arrogance and irresponsibility of this industry verily chills the blood. 12 monkeys. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 17:20:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22204 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13200 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:49:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13106 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [144.92.244.229] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id PAA72290 (8.9.1/50); Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:48:01 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19991022154955.0074a090@facstaff.wisc.edu> X-Sender: mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:49:55 -0500 To: ecomda@danenet.wicip.org, sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: "Michelle M. Miller" Subject: food security Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3379 Thought you might enjoy the transcript of Mark Winne's 10/16 speech on food security, forwarded to me via CitNet from Linda Elswick. m3 ------------------------------ >From Linda: In preparing for the WTO negotiations and United Nations review of progress towards sustainable agriculture and rural development at the eighth session of the Commission on Sustainable Development (CSD) in New York, April 2000, please note the following call to action to American food security activists -- a call shared by all those working globally for sustainable agriculture, local food systems and food for all. For further information about the work of the Coalition, contact Andy Fisher, Executive Director, at or see the website at Linda Elswick, Washington Representative, CFSC _____________________________________________________________________ U.S. COMMUNITY FOOD SECURITY COALITION ANNUAL CONFERENCE, OCTOBER 1999 A Bonfire for Change Mark Winne's Speech to the CFSC 3rd Annual Conference Chicago, Illinois -- October 16, 1999 I wish to thank you all for the opportunity to be the President of the Community Food Security Coalition for these past two years. Though my hair is even grayer than when I began, it has been a very rewarding time for me. I must say that we have come a long way since that day just over five years ago, right here in Chicago, huddled together for warmth against the cold Lake winds, gnawing on frozen danish and sipping cold coffee, to hatch this idea that has become us. I am proud to proclaim, after much travail, brooding and bickering, that we are indeed a movement -- the Community Food Security movement. We are a movement comprised of individuals, single organizations -- big and small -- and local coalitions who, locally and nationally, express a vision of a just and sustainable food system. We practice community food security in a way that makes the most sense to each of us and best suits our communities' circumstances. But we are, nevertheless, part of a movement, one that has chosen to define itself as much by its actions as by its ideas and values. We are a movement that stakes out a big turf -- one that includes a neighborhood, maybe only a few city blocks, perhaps a rural county, and, most importantly, the people who reside in these places. We ask why they may not have enough to eat, or why there are not enough healthy and affordable places to buy food, or, like all of us, why they often choose the wrong thing to eat. We are a movement that moves in other directions as well. We stake out territory in the boardrooms of the world's largest food corporations and ask who is making the decisions about our food system, and why they need to engineer our food supply, and why, for instance, they invade and brand our schools with the claptrap they call food, and why the bottom line is the only place they draw the line. We are audacious enough to stake out the farm fields as our turf and ask why family farms are crushed by the indifferent behemoth that is industrial agriculture; and why farm workers, who stoop all day for our food, must suffer the added indignities of substandard housing, low wages, and unsanitary and unsafe working conditions. Because we stand for and against so much, there are many people who, of course, wonder who we are. "If you are all these things," they say, "how can you be anything?" With perhaps a trace of smugness, I respond with a paraphrase of a remark made by, I think, F. Scott Fitzgerald that one sign of genius is to be able to hold two or more very different ideas in your head at one time and not go crazy. But to those who would ask, and they have, if the Community Food Security movement is the "small is beautiful" movement, I would say no because small is ugly. We are gigantic and comprehensive, not dwarfish and fragmentary. We seek to be as all embracing and all encompassing as necessary to address the many injustices that befall our food system. To those who would ask, and they have, if we are "for food stamps?" I would say yes, by all means. No philosophy, no matter how profound, is worth a dime if you don't have the means to secure food. The stronger and higher our Nation's safety net, the more valid is our claim to be among the great nation's of the earth. To those who would ask, and they have, if we believe that community gardens and small-scale urban agriculture are the best way to feed the hungry, I would say that by themselves, no, of course not. But if you deny the magic of people coming together in community to raise some of their own food, deny them the pulse of the seasons marked by the productions of the earth, then you run the grave risk of denying your own soul. The answer to these questions and the solutions to the many indignities of our food system lie with all of us. The answer is in and among us, between the various food and agriculture movements, between ideas, and in the struggle to find a common voice. As Ralph Waldo Emerson once said, "there is no history, only biography." The stories of our food system are our stories, stitched of a local fabric into colorful patches, assembled by many hands into the larger quilt that is the food system -- our food system. But I hesitate for a moment, not wanting the anger I feel toward such things as the obscenity that is hunger and the callous indifference with which we treat our farmland, to overwhelm my heart and mind. I don't want to be consumed by the disdain I often feel for corporations that put the shareholders' interests before the public's interest. I need to check my bad Karma at the door and remind myself of what Martin Luther King, Jr. once said in the face of overwhelming white hatred and racism, in the face of club wielding sheriffs and barking German shepherds: "I've decided," said King, "that I'm going to do battle for my philosophy. You ought to believe something in life, believe that thing so fervently that you will stand with it till the end of your days. I can't make myself believe that God wants me to hate. I'm tired of violence. And I'm not going to let my oppressor dictate to me what method I must use." Yet, we are in opposition to the dominant food system -- a system whose consequences we can't accept and whose values we don't share. Yet I hesitate to call them my "enemy", thus objectifying them and assigning to them monstrous and subhuman proportions. In the face of a peril so great and a threat so entrenched, I'm not sure that we can only rely on weapons of moral superiority. Our arrows of outrage, no matter how well aimed, will only glance harmlessly off their iron shields. What weapons then can we muster? What arrows can we draw from our quiver? We must first listen. We must cultivate the daintiness of ear to hear the words of our so-called enemies, and certainly the words of our friends in other food and agriculture movements, our government allies -- politicians and policymakers --and first and foremost, the grass-roots, the people we claim to serve, the ones we offer to represent, the ones who pay the social costs of a system gone awry. We must be cautious of the benighted purveyors of goods and services to the so-called "downtrodden." Our true constituents must be included in our work. This room today is comprised of local community food security leaders. Through your actions you have developed alternatives, re-defined the debate, and influenced decision-makers in your own communities. Your good deeds and powers of persuasion, indeed, your very persistence, have worn away the rock of resistance. And as a movement, made up of all of you, the Community Food Security Coalition and our sister organizations have influenced our national leaders, affected our food policy, and shaped the national dialogue on food, hunger, agriculture, and, yes, the umbrella for it all, community food security. But in spite of our progress, I'm afraid that the greatest injustices are yet to come. The grinding of a man's spirit under the corporatism of modern life and the exigencies of the free market will rob us of our freedom like no oppressor of the past. We will be branded and "market-niched," calibrated and concentrated until all the juice of our humanity is squeezed from us. The greatest test of our resistance will be how we oppose the insidious force of a global food system that creeps in on cat's paws, a global food system that cynically suggests that without bioengineering we will not be able to save a hungry world from starvation, and a global food system that veils its deeds in trinkets and beads given to the malnourished and their representatives. We will be sorely tested to preserve our humanity in the face of this quiet terror. But through food, through building local food systems that build local self-reliance, by addressing suffering and injustice in our own backyards, as well as through the resources we can glean from government, I believe we can beat back the alienating forces of a globalized, homogenized, and sterilized food system. For our greater task is to eliminate the distance between us and our food, between us and our fellow movements, and between us and the members of our own communities. For Martin Luther King reminds us that, "When an individual is no longer a true participant, when he no longer feels a sense of responsibility to his society, the content of democracy is emptied. When culture is degraded and vulgarity enthroned, when the social system does not build security but induces peril, inexorably the individual is impelled to pull away from a soulless society." One thing I can say for certain about the community food security movmement is that it is a soulful movment . I feel the heat of our collective passion for a just and sustainable food system. As we show the world what we can do to build food security in our hometowns, block-by-block, field by field, let's also craft a national food policy that embodies the best intentions of farm, food, anti-hunger, nutrition, social justice, and environmental advocates. Toward that end, I am confident that we can join hands with like-minded movements and together, with persistence and love, oppose the forces that crush local food systems, that accept hunger and promote unhealthy diets, that denigrate our environment, and that break our communities down. As a practical, but far-reaching first step, we should continue the process that we started right here in Chicago in 1994. We should work for a 2002 Farm Bill that will be a People's Farm Bill, a farmer's farm bill, a farm worker's farm bill, and an undernourished mother's farm bill. It will be a food policy that is true to the principles of community food security. It will be a crazy-quilt farm bill, no doubt, whose patches will be as colorful as this nation and as outrageous as the ideals that guide our movements. Pick up the needle and thread, start stitching, keep up your good work, stay strong, keep each other warm and safe, listen, learn, love, and together, let's build a bonfire for change. Thank you. Sent via citnet-list@citnet.org Michelle Miller Pesticide Use and Risk Reduction Project Center for Integrated Agricultural Systems University of Wisconsin - Madison U.S. Mail: 146 Agriculture Hall 608.262.7135 Campus: 1535 Observatory Drive 608.262.5200 Madison, WI 53706 fax 265.3020 www.wisc.edu/cias/ mmmille6@facstaff.wisc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 17:43:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22723 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:43:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05872 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:22:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05814 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.222 (mx3-52.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.195]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11647; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:18:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3810D7C1.6A1F@smallfarms.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:33:53 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu CC: "Cole, Ralph" Subject: Re: free range and land grants References: <9940D59A824BD31196EB00902798D1AE494363@KNOXEX1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3380 Hey Ralph, Donna, Kathryn, et alia. As small farmers we need to get the word out that our eggs with high yellow yokes, hard shells and small air sacs are available through small farmers. Let's let our consumers know abuot this and let them be the judges of our products. Our products are nutritious AND they look good. Remember all the lessons about making things more attractive through packaging? This is a natural for us. For Donna, let's test you idea for selling duck eggs. I know that in some places I've lived, duck eggs were preferred to chicken eggs because their whites were firmer (tougher to some) and they're larger. A food wholesaler friend of smallfarms.com keeps reminding me to have small farmers tell why their products are different from what he handles. I see the small farmers here being cutting edge. As we move quality products to the next level, the DOAs and Extension services will follow. I think it would be unfair for us to expect them to take leadership in our behalf - it might not even be desirable. Like you, I'd like the help, but sometimes it's not in the cards we hold. glenn Buy from the Farmer http://www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 18:25:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23671 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08483 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:07:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08385 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:07:17 -0400 (EDT) From: CTBull@aol.com Received: from CTBull@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id 7EGV23aeW_ (4598) for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <0.cc33f1cb.25423988@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:04:56 EDT Subject: Genetically modified, insect resistant corn: Implications for disease management. To: sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id SAA08409 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3381 You can find this article at www.scisoc.org Genetically modified, insect resistant corn: Implications for disease management. As the fall harvest proceeds, Bt corn is being harvested at record levels.This feature by Gary Munkvold and Richard Hellmich describes the influence of Bt corn on corn diseases and mycotoxin-producing fungi in corn.Learn more about the controversial issues surrounding the widespread use of Bt corn, and weigh the potential risks and benefits of Bt technology. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 18:35:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23771 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15339 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:13:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15253 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:13:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11661 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:11:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPKMYD86; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:10:46 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:54:34 -0700 Subject: Who DO extension services serve anyway? Message-ID: <19991022.145435.3806.1.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4,6-7,9,15,19,24,27,38,42-44 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3382 Patricia said: (snip) Okay, I can't sit here & listen to all extension services getting lumped together without speaking up.(snip) Andy said: (snip) But, based on my travels through the country over the past two years, I am sure there are more positive than negative agents out there, by a huge number. (snip) Steve said: (snip) We need to build bridges and not make war. (snip) Jane asked? (snip) Where are the gaps? What needs to be getting done that isn't? (snip) My participation in SANET has convinced me all extension services are NOT created equal. My first shock was to realize SANET is actually sponsored by the USDA (which I had previously thought of as being anti-Sustainable). Then realized that there really are extension people out there that are VERY DIFFERENT from the ones I've become disillusioned with. I've had too much experience with agents who advise buying more expensive seed, fertilizers, and pesticides and ridicule any one who uses organic methods and/or saves seed. I'm convinced they serve the commercial interests, not the farmers. On the other hand, several SANETers have been kind enough to take the time to supply thoughtful (and helpful) answers to my questions in contrast to the raised eyebrows, snickers, and hostile answers I previously learned to expect from those who are supposed to be serving me. Clearly, not all extension people stop learning when they get their degrees, thank goodness. I can only hope that the ones who keep on learning will eventually replace the other kind. As for the gaps Jane asked about, it seems to me that they are tied in with attitude more than anything else. An agent can brag that he only supplies "research-based" information, while constantly telling his master gardener class things like "just go down to Safeway and buy your fruits and vegetables--they're as good as anything you can grow and a lot less work" and "too bad organic gardening is impossible in the desert." When I said I had killed bermuda grass by spading then planting pumpkins to shade it out, I was told I must not have had bermuda grass because only glycophosphate will kill bermuda grass. To me, that reflects attitude more than lack of knowledge and I have a hard time remaining civil in the presence of such arrogance. On the other hand, Byron recently chided me for not wanting to approach my county agent and, on reflection, I have to agree with him--if we don't act as if we expect reasonable answers, we'll probably never get them. Best regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 20:53:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25816 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15956 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:20:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15902 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13437 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.90] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:18:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:15:23 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <17802.991022@acnet.net> To: Charles Benbrook CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, , biotech_activists@iatp.org Subject: Re: Remarkable Story re Monsanto In-reply-To: <199910221819.LAA24153@enaila.nidlink.com> References: <199910221819.LAA24153@enaila.nidlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3383 Hello Charles and all, Friday, October 22, 1999, 12:31:31 PM, you wrote: CB> ... Will a major company emerge that is focused on biopesticides CB> and non-GMO alternatives? The one that does (and does a competent job) will do well. CB> ... Each merger will be built upon a multi-billion dollar bet on CB> the technologies and products that will shape agriculture in the CB> decades ahead. That is exactly right. That's what's at stake! CB> Clearly, the newly formed companies will articulate a business CB> plan/strategy that includes a pretty substantial repositioning of genetic CB> engineering. But if not GMOs, then what? How about true (non-recombinant) genetics; real, intelligent and comprehensive research (both in "the wild" and in field trials) and development, based on the same biological, evolutionary processes that have got us (and everything else) up to this point; without running the highly unnecessary and irresponsible risks associated with technologies motivated largely on their ability to become subject to proprietary schemes designed to proportion an immodest degree of world domination, in least in their considerable market niches - that drag almost everything else along with it. (Hi Dale. I thought you'd like that one? Incidentally, did you filter me out of your mailbox? The last posts to you came back). Which is exactly why they have been rejected - this time; acceptable limits were over-stepped, and that was recognized (more so in Europe, to begin with - Europe being a more plural, less monopoly controlled entity. But no need to worry - your talents will still be in demand, especially since you do a good job at approaching a problem within the confines of it's own criteria and the resources you've already developed. Dale looks for answers and doesn't give up, and that's positive). CB> And what will the consequences be on farm income and CB> profitability, food safety and consumers, and the environment and CB> sustainable agriculture systems? It's going to take a while to take form. CB> Another intriguing question -- environmental activism, consumer CB> pressure and global market forces have clearly contributing to the CB> undermining of the economic performance of today's version of an CB> ag biotech-based "life science" corporation. An important precedent. CB> But it remains to be seen whether and how these same forces will CB> find ways to act constructively by shaping alternative corporate CB> structures and strategies which will better meet the needs of CB> society, the environment and consumers. Very well put, Charles. You are always seem to manage to be constructive and well focused, consistent and congruent; and I want to congratulate you on that. CB> Many people have found personal reasons to just say "no" to CB> genetic engineering as recently relied upon in shaping new CB> agricultural technologies. Once again, an important precedent. CB> But will consumers and activists find a way to say "yes" to CB> alternative approaches, technologies, and business strategies in a CB> clear enough way to influence how Wall Street uses its enormous CB> clout in financing this next, critical stage of corporate CB> evolution? That's the question, all right. My personal answer is "yes", and I'll certainly continue to work on a corner of it myself. (That is, bet on it with my own life). Of course it will take many more doing the same in an intentionally or unintentionally coordinated way, to become reality. Charles' post represents an excellent convocation for that. (Charles Benbrook is another of the protagonists I chose to debate the Avery's in that never to be programmed, imaginary event). Douglas Hinds Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, Asociacion Civil Cordoba, Veracruz dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 22 21:31:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26106 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06101 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:47:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06093 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13764 for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:45:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (qrvl209-74-47ppp112.epix.net [209.74.47.112]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999100101/PL) with ESMTP id UAA17945; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:45:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <381106D2.8FA719A2@epix.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:52:35 -0400 From: Steve Groff Reply-To: sgroff@epix.net Organization: Cedar Meadow Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edna M Weigel CC: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Who DO extension services serve anyway? References: <19991022.145435.3806.1.eweigel@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3384 Edna M Weigel wrote: > My first shock was to realize SANET is actually > sponsored by the USDA (which I had previously thought of as being > anti-Sustainable). Then realized that there really are extension people > out there that are VERY DIFFERENT from the ones I've become disillusioned > with. USDA personel were a major influence in introducing me to sustainable ag with the concept of growing tomatoes with less pesticides and harmful environmental effects. I personally know a half dozen USDA employees who have demonstrated that they are serious in making sustainable ag research a priority. It is a very tough sell sometimes to get money for their sus ag research though. Marjorie Rayburn wrote: > > we need to promote a conversation and > understanding among all facets of agriculture - large scale, conventional, > chemical dependent farmers and organic farmers of all sizes and those > "sustainable" types in between. I don't believe very much progress will be > made towards a more sustainable agriculture by wishing things had been done > differently in the past and by criticizing or downplaying small steps > towards > Extension's recognition of and attempts to address a growing organic > agriculture. This is very well stated. IMO, we as an agriculture community are in this thing together. We need each other. There are certain aspects of conventional farming that are very postive, particularly the "art and technique" of farming that they do very well. It's been my observation that sustainable ag, and in particular the organic sector, has lost respect among conventional ag because there has been more finger wagging then an honest effort to show that organic farming is indeed a viable business. Steve Groff "Enhancing the Environment" http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/ Cedar Meadow Farm 679 Hilldale Road Holtwood, PA 17532 USA To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 00:38:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27944 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:38:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA07017 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:13:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.67]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06907 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 00:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991023041146.QCUL5567.lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:11:46 -0700 Message-ID: <381135A1.F6AA3FBA@home.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:12:17 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: prove gmo's are bad? References: <199910222124.RAA08218@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3385 ...How about prove that they're safe.... the pollen is drifting and causing organic farmers to loose money, among other maladies....recall product.;psshh "sue us". Let see which way was the wind blowing??????? How do you trace GMO contamination....Just how long is this "bt (whatever) is going to be effective? Not very... NOt real questions here, just blowing off steam- reacting to pioneering spirits. billlevans To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 06:37:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29678 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 06:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28270 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 06:19:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28250 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 06:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id SAA06335; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:15:45 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id TAA27076; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:00:04 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910231100.TAA27076@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 23 Oct 99 18:05:09 Subject: Y2K: 86% Chemical Firms Not Ready - Communities Urged To Prepare To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3386 October 22, 1999 Contact: Stephen M. Apatow President & Executive Director, Humanitarian Resource Institute Eastern USA: (203) 668-0282 Western USA: (775) 884-4680 Internet: http://www.humanitarian.net Email: sma@humanitarian.net U.S. SENATE COMMITTEE CALLS FOR COMMUNITIES TO PREPARE FOR POSSIBLE CHEMICAL EMERGENCIES RELATED TO THE YEAR 2000 TECHNOLOGY PROBLEM U.S. chemical manufacturing, storage and transportation is a $392 billion industry. An estimated 85 million Americans live within five miles of one of the 66,000 sites that handle hazardous chemicals. According to the U.S. Senate Special Committee on the Year 2000 Problem: * 86.5 percent of firms surveyed are not currently prepared for Y2K. * 85.6 percent have not coordinated emergency plans with local/community officials. A majority have not linked contingency planning to community emergency services such as police, fire and rescue, or hospitals. * 79 percent said they had never before been surveyed about Y2K preparedness. * A majority of respondents do not belong to industry organizations or trade associations, which have been the primary gatherers of Y2K preparedness information in the private sector. * 4.1 percent said Y2K presents A potential for a catastrophic event. For detailed information on these reports and resources from the U.S. Chemical and Hazard Safety Investigation Board visit the Humanitarian Resource Institute Global Y2K Infrastructure Risks Web Site which can be found at: http://www.humanitarian.net/y2keconomic.html COMMUNITY & FAMILY PREPAREDNESS Humanitarian Resource Institute in cooperation with the FEMA Community & Family Preparedness Program has constructed a one stop Community & Family Preparedness resource guide on the internet. Included on this web site is the Preparedness Guide for Chemical Emergencies which was produced by the National Disaster Education Coalition: American Red Cross, FEMA, IAEM, IBHS, NFPA, NWS, USDA/CSREES, and USGS. Topics Include: * Why Talk About Chemical Emergencies? * What Is a Home Chemical Emergency, and a Major * Chemical Emergency? * Awareness Information * Preventing Chemical Emergencies in the Home * What to Do During a Home Chemical Emergency * Plan for Major Chemical Emergencies * Media and Communicate Education Ideas * What to Do During a Major Chemical Emergency * What to Do if You Are at the Scene of a Chemical Accident * How to Shelter-in-Place * Evacuation During a Chemical Emergency * What to Do After a Major Chemical Emergency The Community & Family Preparedness Resource Guide can be found at: http://www.humanitarian.net/prepare.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 07:30:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29854 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06249 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:10:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06239 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.120] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 06:08:08 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 06:05:27 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <6253.991023@acnet.net> To: "Wilson, Dale" CC: "'Roberto Verzola'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re[2]: Benefit of BT Corn In-reply-To: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFB1@vela.phibred.com> References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFB1@vela.phibred.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3387 Hello Dale, Friday, October 22, 1999, 10:55:37 AM, you wrote: WD> ... Mainly what I want from you is a biological model of how you WD> think this could occur. I don't think it is plausible, at least WD> for most GMO crops. The following is a reference that objectively points to a number of specific problems that have been focused on but not sufficiently researched, regarding GMO's in food. One of the many points is where the burden of proof lies. (It's a little long, but I feel, worthy of reproduction). The ** were added by me to provide further emphasis: http://www.consumersinternational.org/campaigns/biotech/foodsaf4.html Updated: 25 Jul 1999 Genetic Engineering and Food Safety: The Consumer Interests 18 December 1996 Conclusion Where to Go from Here? Consumers International supports the principle that genetically engineered foods must be as safe as their traditional counterparts. However, Consumers International recommends that great caution be taken in declaring that a given foodstuff is substantially equivalent to an existing food or food component. The process of declaring something substantially equivalent should be transparent and accessible to consumer experts. Furthermore, proteins that are 'almost the same' as a traditional protein should not be regarded as substantially equivalent. Further safety testing is necessary in such cases. ** Given the many scientific questions in the fields of molecular biology and genetic engineering, Consumers International advises against the marketing of any GEFs without an appropriate and extensive safety assessment.** As concerns the criteria for assessing safety of GEFs, Consumers International strongly urges that digestibility tests not be the final criterion. An extensive safety assessment may include ethically acceptable testing in animals and, if appropriate, in human volunteers. In case of a foodstuff produced with processing aids made by GMOs, but no longer present in the resulting foodstuff, testing in animals or human volunteers is unnecessary. ** Because of the lack of sufficient analytical tests and databases, Consumers International stresses the need for the development of new tests and databases containing information on the natural range of nutrients and toxicants in commercial food plants. Toxicity assessment ** Because of the repercussions genetic engineering can have on toxins in foodstuffs, Consumers International strongly urges that priority be given to the development of new test systems to test for toxicity of GEFs, such as in vitro tests, new ethically acceptable animal tests or ethically acceptable human volunteer tests. ** Consumers International recommends the use of protein degradability tests as part of the toxicity testing, only if these tests cover modified gastric and gastro-intestinal conditions. Allergenicity assessment ** Considering that the problem of food allergies could be amplified by genetic engineering of foodstuffs, Consumers International recommends that organisms that cause common allergies should not be used as a source of genetic material to be inserted in other food organisms unless human testing (including skin-prick tests and use of sera from allergic individuals) shows that the transferred protein is not the allergen. ** All GEFs still containing expressions products of the transferred gene(s) must be labelled in order to enable tracking the source of possible new food allergies. Additional measures must be taken in circumstances where labelling does not fully reach consumers, for example, for products sold in bulk and for consumers that can not read labels. Antibiotic resistance ** The use of antibiotic marker genes poses health concerns. Therefore, Consumers International calls for a ban on the use of antibiotic resistance genes in microorganisms that are marketed and/or consumed in a viable state. Preferably, these genes should also not be used in microorganisms whose products are used but that are themselves not part of the foodstuff. ** Consumers International also calls for a ban on the use of antibiotic resistance genes in commercial food crops and for the development and use of alternatives to antibiotic resistance marker genes for the transformation of plants. Safety and labelling regulations Consumers International calls for well-enforced safety and labelling regulations on GEFs, at the national as well as the international level. ** GEF regulations should have a broad scope, including genetically engineered organisms, viable and non-viable; food crops with agronomic traits; ingredients and additives derived from genetically engineered organisms; processing aids, such as enzymes, derived from genetically engineered organisms; foodstuffs that have been processed, using the processing aids mentioned above. Any GEF safety regulation should cover post-marketing monitoring requirements, including monitoring of possible public health repercussions. ** In particular, GEF regulations should include the following: The establishment of case-by-case authorization procedures for all GEFs, which include assessing allergenicity, toxicity, nutritional content and marker genes. ** The setting up of expert advisory committees at both the national and international level. These committees should be made up of experts representing different interests and disciplines, including consumer representatives. ** Implementation of the safety assessment of GEFs by independent research institutes. ** The establishment of strict requirements for publication of safety data and official decisions. Data should be available in clear and accessible format. The enactment of strict requirements for labelling. ** The requirement that the manufacturer be liable for any negative health effects. In addition, genetic engineering for food purposes and the production of GEFs should comply with environmental safety and quality standards, including: Good Manufacturing Practices, Good Industrial Large Scale Practice and ISO-standards. Abstract Introduction Consumer Interests An Overview of Consumer Concerns **Conclusion** [presented here] Endnotes and References ** This paper focuses on the food safety aspects only. However, this does not imply that Consumers International disregards issues such as the vast environmental impact of genetic engineering or the impact it has on developing countries. For more information, please contact Consumers International's Global Policy and Campaigns Unit (GPCU). Researched and written by: Frans van Dam, M.Sc., Stichting Consument & Biotechnologie, The Netherlands Michael Hansen, Ph.D., Consumer Policy Institute, Consumers' Union, United States Leen Petr, Global Policy and Campaigns Unit, Consumers International, UK WD> ...Those European consumers who care so much about this are simply WD> mistaken. Shame on you. WD> But we can, and will provide genuinely GMO-free seed. WD> Dale WD> PS: We would stand on our head and recite poetry to the seed if our WD> customers wanted that. We know, Dale. Anything to make a dollar. Lastly, while you may claim you were discussing a more specific scenario, that is exactly the problem: Excess selectivity and a deficient sense of integrity, both biological and ethical. (That's not to say the defect can't be corrected, though. Make an effort). Douglas Hinds - CeDeCoR, A.C. dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 07:30:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29855 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07557 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:15:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from demokritos.cytanet.com.cy (demokritos.cytanet.com.cy [195.14.133.252]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07544 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cytanet.com.cy (pa-1-37.cytanet.com.cy [195.14.132.37]) by demokritos.cytanet.com.cy (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24110 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:13:25 +0300 (EET DST) Message-ID: <381198B9.A8F0F905@cytanet.com.cy> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 13:15:05 +0200 From: Rachael Pettus X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: compost contents Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3388 Hi, everyone: A question for soil biologists or home composting experts, here. I have heard that certain types of trees, walnuts and ecalypts among them, are allelopathic -- their roots secrete something that discourages other plants from growing nearby. How do eucalyptus leaves behave in compost? I have a cold compost pile that recently had a lot of eucalyptus leaves added. Will they break down harmlessly and combine with the other things in the pile (kitchen scraps, weed clippings, other leaves etc) to make nice healthy compost to add to my garden, or will they break down, but leave the compost an environment that will not enourage veggie growth when I dig it in in the spring? Thanks for any help and advice. Rachael Pettus. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 09:46:37 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00634 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13247 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:27:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13235 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 09:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26882>; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 08:36:39 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Rachael Pettus cc: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Message-Id: <99Oct23.083639cdt.26882@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 08:25:27 -0500 Subject: Re: compost contents Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3389 Rachael asked: A question for soil biologists or home composting experts, here. I have heard that certain types of trees, walnuts and ecalypts among them, are allelopathic -- their roots secrete something that discourages other plants from growing nearby. How do eucalyptus leaves behave in compost? I have a cold compost pile that recently had a lot of eucalyptus leaves added. Will they break down harmlessly and combine with the other things in the pile (kitchen scraps, weed clippings, other leaves etc) to make nice healthy compost to add to my garden, or will they break down, but leave the compost an environment that will not enourage veggie growth when I dig it in in the spring? Thanks for any help and advice. Pat replies: I noticed on my home farm where we had lots of old Eucalyptus groves that nothing lived either under them or in them so I never tried using them in my compost (we had lots of chicken manure, spoiled hay & unlimited sawdust). On the other hand, the leaves did rot on the ground so they theoretically would rot in a pile? To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 10:56:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01069 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25716 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:31:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25670 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:31:05 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: composting Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:31:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3390 as you can see, the foodsafe listserv is currently having a discussion on the safety of composted manure, and on the research supporting that . . . i'm not up on the research on composting, so i'm hoping that some on sanet can suggest some places to look for the research on this topic it would be helpful if any responses could be cc'd to: Bill.Adler@sunny.health.state.mn.us ral@lcfltd.com and rbfarr@erols.com thanks for any thoughts on this cheers, craig At 05:06 PM 10/22/99 -0500, Bill Adler wrote: >I think I'm missing soemthing here. This manure is organic waste from the guts of mammals. It's loaded with fecal organisms. Compost it and it's still going to be loaded with organisms, e.g. Lysteria, possibly E.coli 0157, Campylobacter, C. Bot, etc. There should be lots of organisms, especially spore formers, left in it and there is the potential the products it is placed on will be contaminated with them if the manure application is close to the date of harvest. Hmm. I was under the impression that vegetables were still grown in 'dirt', a substance that is known to carry all of the organisms specified! Should we be alarmed? Facetiousness aside, the composting replaces the original flora with a new one, chiefly lactic acid bacteria and others. Where is the risk in manure? It's in having too large a population of human pathogens, due to composting not taking place long enough. How long must composting take place to make manure safe? Good question, and where's the research supporting it? ================================================================ Robert A. LaBudde, PhD, PAS, Dpl. ACAFS e-mail: ral@lcfltd.com Least Cost Formulations, Ltd. URL: http://lcfltd.com/ 824 Timberlake Drive Tel: 757-467-0954 Virginia Beach, VA 23464-3239 Fax: 757-467-2947 "Vere scire est per causae scire" ================================================================ *************************************************************************** * The foodsafe mailing list facilitates information exchange. * * The sender is responsible for content. * * To remove yourself from this list, send email to majordomo@nal.usda.gov * * with the message text: unsubscribe foodsafe * * Foodsafe archives are available at: * * http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodborne/foodborn.htm * *************************************************************************** craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 11:15:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01184 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15914 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:00:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from purple.tmn.com (purple.tmn.com [205.177.137.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15861 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tmn.com ([164.106.173.25]) by purple.tmn.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25156; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3811CBF2.41664EB5@tmn.com> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:53:38 -0400 From: tabeles Reply-To: tabeles@tmn.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Douglas Hinds CC: "Wilson, Dale" , "'Roberto Verzola'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Time and the Benefit of BT Corn References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFB1@vela.phibred.com> <6253.991023@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3391 There is one dimension that is not being fully considered here, the element of time. We are very used to flipping a light switch and curing the dark, taking a pill and curing the headache and investing in a stock and seeing it gain over night. What we have forgotten is that many of the benefits which we receive from science are actually the results of the works of many persons bumping around the research arena like molecules in a jar, with the final result being visible only after many years of this seemingly mindless wandering in the maze of knowledge. It is true that the human meanderings have been on a much shorter time scale than Nature who has suffered many catastrophies in her path to today. In fact, it has been remarked that humans may be one of her chance inventions and that intelligence is not necessarily a survival charcteristic. The work with GMO and GE may or may not be one of these random walks to catastrophe or even a blind alley in the larger scheme. The entire issue is not about the technology, but about Time. Our short term needs for visible results and financial returns or alleviation of some pain (at any level) has short-circuited our ability to look at these efforts on a longer time fram. We are dictated to by external forces including investors, the electorate, or even the humanitarians' needs to provide solutions to pain and suffering. This problem does not reside only in the corporate domain with its "profit" motive, but also with those who sit on the other side of the fence. Time is the issue; and the problems such as GMO's are only one way in which this issue becomes manifest. Human ego makes it difficult to believe that a person may be but one grain in an infinite game. We seek finite games; and, as Shakespeare has said, " Aye, there's the rub". thoughts? tom abeles ps this does not imply that those who oppose GMO's hold the moral or intellectual high ground, particularly when they argue for longer term evaluations. Rather it places them at the gaming table amongst the many. And, as Michael Jackson has said, things are neither black nor white. tpa To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 16:00:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04520 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 16:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26103 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:28:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26029 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:28:08 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:26:22 -0500 X-ROUTED: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:26:22 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.66] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0e43093c ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:26:10 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991023141405.008c82b0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:14:05 -0500 To: Subject: composting Cc: " " Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3392 Craig, at the bottom is a recent exchange on bacterial contamination which includes some research results from, I think, Russ's dissertation. Maybe he will chime in here with a more specific answer. I have one question, who spreads aminal manure on crops "close to the date of harvest"? This goes against common sense and I doubt that is allowed in certified organic operations. It just seems to be a bit of a "when did you stop beating your wife" type of argument. Mike Miller >Subject: composting > > >as you can see, the foodsafe listserv is currently having a discussion on >the safety of composted manure, and on the research supporting that . . . >i'm not up on the research on composting, so i'm hoping that some on sanet >can suggest some places to look for the research on this topic >it would be helpful if any responses could be cc'd to: > Bill.Adler@sunny.health.state.mn.us > ral@lcfltd.com and > rbfarr@erols.com >thanks for any thoughts on this >cheers, >craig > > >At 05:06 PM 10/22/99 -0500, Bill Adler wrote: >>I think I'm missing soemthing here. This manure is organic waste from the >guts of mammals. It's loaded with fecal organisms. Compost it and it's >still going to be loaded with organisms, e.g. Lysteria, possibly E.coli >0157, Campylobacter, C. Bot, etc. There should be lots of organisms, >especially spore formers, left in it and there is the potential the >products it is placed on will be contaminated with them if the manure >application is close to the date of harvest. > >Hmm. I was under the impression that vegetables were still grown in 'dirt', >a substance that is known to carry all of the organisms specified! Should we >be alarmed? >Facetiousness aside, the composting replaces the original flora with a new >one, chiefly lactic acid bacteria and others. >Where is the risk in manure? It's in having too large a population of human >pathogens, due to composting not taking place long enough. >How long must composting take place to make manure safe? Good question, and >where's the research supporting it? >================================================================ >Robert A. LaBudde, PhD, PAS, Dpl. ACAFS e-mail: ral@lcfltd.com >Least Cost Formulations, Ltd. URL: http://lcfltd.com/ >824 Timberlake Drive Tel: 757-467-0954 >Virginia Beach, VA 23464-3239 Fax: 757-467-2947 >"Vere scire est per causae scire" >================================================================ >*************************************************************************** >* The foodsafe mailing list facilitates information exchange. * >* The sender is responsible for content. * >* To remove yourself from this list, send email to majordomo@nal.usda.gov * >* with the message text: unsubscribe foodsafe * >* Foodsafe archives are available at: * >* http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodborne/foodborn.htm * >*************************************************************************** > >craig k harris >department of sociology >michigan state university >429b berkey hall >east lansing michigan 48824-1111 >tel: 517-355-5048 >fax: 517-432-2856 To: MMiller From: lrbulluc@unity.ncsu.edu Date: 13 Sep 99 10:32:56 -0600 Subject: Re: ADM -- SPECIALTY MARKET TO THE RICH Klaus Wiegand wrote: > hello mike, > > >Klaus, I suspect that if you looked at your soils you would find > >100 % bacterial contamination. What does this have to do with > >organic produce? > > yep, but we're talking of ENTERO-bacteria here and these you will > not find in soil by itsself (just as the name tells you). they are > a clear sign of bad or wrong hygienic conditions or bad > or unsatisfiing composting. > That's not entirely true. Enteric bacteria (from the Family Enterobacteraceae, including Enterobacter, Shigella, Escherichia, and Salmonella species) are found in soils amended with both organic and synthetic fertility amendments (research that I have been involved with show that on average, after amendment of soil with organic amendments such as cattle manure, swine manure, and different kinds of composts, a spike of enteric bacteria occurs, with between 1*10 to log 6.4-8.1, or more than 1000000 to 100000000 colony forming units, CFU, per gram of soil occurring in soils). Often populations will decline over time in soils amended with organic amendments, while increasing in soils amended with synthetic fertilizers, and over studies have found no significant difference over time in soils regardless of amendment type (1*10 to log 7.2-7.4 CFU's per gram soil). The major point I want to make is that even in soils _never_ (to my knowledge, and one study was conducted on experimental research stations) amended with organic amendments enteric bacteria are _Always_ present. The major question is whether the populations present are pathogenic to people. For the most part, the answer must be no. If pathogenic enteric bacteria were always present in soil, and since most soils (regardless of fertilizer type used) contain enteric bacteria, more food-borne illnesses (on fresh vegetables and fruit) would be attributed to them. Pathogenic enteric bacteria are accustomed (and thrive) in the gut of vertebrates (both warm- and cold-blooded organisms), usually with temps at 37 degrees C (for mammalian pathogens), and an abundant food source. The soil is an oligotrophic environment of highly variable temps and food availability, rarely meeting the optima for growth and development needed for our pathogenic friends. Any organic amendment (regardless of composting, although composted organic amendments have many advantages over uncomposted manures, not the least of which is smell) that is incorporated into the soil and left alone until harvest (2 to 3 months for most vegetables, longer for other crops) few if any pathogenic enteric bacteria will likely remain. Can anyone guarantee that no pathogenic bacteria will be in the soil at harvest, or that contamination with pathogens is impossible? No. However, the regulations required for organic production in the United States prohibit application of raw manures (and in some cases composts) a certain time period before harvest. I'm not sure whether similar regulations exist for conventional agricultural fields or not. . . > and what that does have to do with organic produce ? well, it's the > almost only organic growers, who use feathermeals, guano, > bonemeals. for conventional farmers the relation of nutrient > content vs. price is just too small. > > according to my findings i would say, that a farmer, who neither > uses organic fertilizers NOR sewage slugde, has definite better > hygienic conditions in the field than anyone, who uses EITHER of > them. which other conclusion did you draw from the data ? > Conventional farmers (especially those with other ventures such as hog farming) also use > want a real ugly experience ? just last week we found > out, that main distributors for feedstuff mixed large > amounts of substratum prior used for mushroom production > into the feedstuff. this substratum consists of a smear > of deteriorated and highly contaminated straw, barnyard manure, an > uncountable number of colony-forming bacteria, residues of urea > other unindentified nitrogen fertilizers. then there were amounts of > mycotoxin our gas chromatographs at first could not measure (the > recorder paper was too small!). cows are no waste disposers and > sometimes i doubt about the sanity of human minds, who think, that > this will have no consequences. I can see where this would be a problem. I don't think that material such as these should be placed in feeds! I do know, however, that cow love composted cotton gin trash (correctly composted to temps above 55 degrees C for at least a week or more). They eat it like molasses (according to one farmer I talked to). -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 16:09:34 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04567 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 16:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09330 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:46:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (coopext.cahe.wsu.edu [134.121.1.21]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09303 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hulb8058 (cahe87163.cahe.wsu.edu [134.121.87.163]) by coopext.cahe.wsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA20991 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19991023124513.010e6640@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu> X-Sender: crawford@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:48:22 -0700 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Phil Crawford Subject: Re: extension & land grants (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3393 What a well-written statement from Marcie Rosenzweig. This has been a most interesting thread to follow, especially as I have been one of "them" and a leader of "them" for a long time in the Northwest. Just a few thoughts to share from 30 years experience on both the inside and outside of a couple of prominent land grant universities (LGU's). 1. Change is probably more difficult from the inside than from the outside of LGU's. Universities are society's rudders in many ways. They hire their own and perpetuate their institutions very well. Although that has had its good aspects, it can be a great point of frustration in times of increasingly rapid change as we have experienced in recent times. Remember, too, that university faculty (I'm including Extension agents as faculty although not all states do so) see their role as helping other people change through education and research, but, as those who are supposed to have all the answers, they may be quite resistant to change themselves. 2. Universities, especially LGU's, are increasingly influenced by political and pragmatic forces they once might have claimed were not very big factors in their direction and policy development. Chief among these forces is funding, which has shifted as the relative portion of appropriated public money has declined. University administrators' (including presidents) success is based on the size of institution or program they manage so they have increasingly shifted their emphasis toward sources of funding the can help them build or maintain their empires --- grants, gifts, corporate sector, patents and licensing. 3. LGU's have a huge amount of resources that can and should be supportive of the interests of sustainable agriculturists. In many cases these resources are slowly shifting a little more in this direction. 4. LGU's are increasingly political creatures, responding to a variety of force fields tied to funding, legislative action, and enrollment. Hence, the most effective and efficient way to influence change in LGU's is to think and act politically. Thinking LGU's will do the "right thing", i.e., support your goals, because it is in the best interest of society or the environment most likely will result in more frustration than change. I have not found much principle centered leadership in LGU's, but I have seen lots of reactive behavior --- reactive to forces that can influence their resources and image. 5. Building coalitions with people and groups both inside and outside the LGU's, working with elected officials, and spending more time developing strategic political plans will lead to much greater success, both for accomplishing the goals of specific interest groups (e.g., organic and sustainable ag) as well as creating a more sustainable public LUG system. Often, small or poorly funded groups feel this is impossible, that they can't hope to compete with the bigger forces. Experience says that is not entirely true. In fact, as the discussions on SANET show, new ideas and change usually come from the fringe, not the mainstream. Space is limited here, but if you are interested in specific examples of successful change in LGU's through the action of less powerful groups, let's discuss further off-list. At 09:35 AM 10/22/99 -0800, Marcie Rosenzweig wrote: >Hi folks, > >This is a topic close to my heart, and dealing with it has been painful and >joyful over these last ten years. > >First, let me say I've been blessed to have one of the most open-minded, >continuously learning, and passionate Ag Extensionists, Garth Veerkamp, in >my county. I consider him a friend and mentor. His wife Randi and he were >beta testers for my book Market Farm Forms. > >Here are some experiences and observations I've had. > > ______________________________________________ Phil Crawford 905 S.W. Viento Drive Pullman, Washington 99163 Voice: 509.334.3574 FAX: 509.334.3574 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Oct 23 20:33:04 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06320 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:05:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08938 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id IAA05495; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:02:23 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id IAA02202; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:40:09 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910240040.IAA02202@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 24 Oct 99 07:44:15 Subject: Re: organic and extension people and university types To: bsimonds@hertford.ces.state.nc.us Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3394 >USDA, the Land Grant Institutions, and Extension Service have promoted >"Sustainable Concepts" for a very long time. Look at old publications >from the 80's, 70's, 60's, 50's, 40's, 30's, and further. One thing >you will find in common is an emphasis on cultural practices, proper >variety selection, tillage methods to protect soils, fertility based >on type of material, timing and plant needs. Much of this type of >information was refined and expanded upon during the 70's, 80's, and >90's! Verbal bashing of these institutions is closing the door on >potential information that was developed and promoted before most of >us were even born. I can see from the policies and statements of your Agriculture Secretary as well as earlier postings here that your USDA has a general policy which appears to be highly biased in favor of big firms and of chemical agriculture and now genetic engineering. Within the department, however, there is a much smaller counter-current of ecological, chemical-free, organic farming advocates thanks to the persistence of some lower-ranking officials. To say so, without admitting that the dominant policy of your Department of Agriculture is highly destructive of the land and highly biased against small farms, will only mask the key problem: what is the dominant policy within the DA bureaucracy and its top officials? Only after recognizing the key problem can one begin solving it. For example, how much of its budget goes to subsidize chemical/GE firms? 70%? 90%? 95%? Imagine if this went to what is today only a minor undercurrent in that department. Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sat Oct 23 05:42:07 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29492 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA18779 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:20:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18770 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 05:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id RAA04473; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:15:51 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id RAA26813; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:50:13 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910230950.RAA26813@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 23 Oct 99 16:56:29 Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn To: WILSONDO@phibred.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3395 >It is a problem that has been elaborated in peoples minds. All you are >saying is that transgenics are a problem because some people think they >might be. The more fundamental issue is whether the problem is real or >simply imaginary. What I want from you is a plausible biological argument, >not a political pronouncement. That is an interesting request. It tells me that you are assuming Bt corn is safe unless proven otherwise. On the other hand, I believe in the precautionary principle: I assume it is unsafe unless proven otherwise. (It produces a pesticide in every cell throughout the plant's life, doesn't it?) Nonetheless, I will give you some plausible biological arguments: 1. The study of Ewen and Pusztai recently published by Lancet suggests that engineering lectins into food can make the food harmful to rats. The Bt toxin is a lectin. It is therefore plausible that Bt corn can also be harmful to rats and other mammals. 2. The toxin in Bt corn is different from the natural toxin produced by the Bt bacterium. The transgene inserted in corn is shorter and has been reengineered so it is different from the bacterial gene. It also produces a toxin which is already semi-activated, unless the natural toxin which in not active and must be activated in the insect gut. So this toxin is a chemical which not natural, and our gut has never seen it until we start eating Bt corn. We have experience with other synthetic chemicals which we ingest: they tend to be harmful and even carcinogenic. It is therefore plausible that Bt corn can be harmful and even carcinogenic. 3. When the corn plant produces the toxin (in all cells, throughout the plant's life), it will be using up amino acids and other chemicals from the plant's store. These will therefore not be available for the production of those other substances which the corn plant normally produces. This means there will be less of these substances in the corn plant. If one such substance (of which the corn now produces less, having used the raw materials to produce the Bt poison instead) contributes to the nutritive quality of the corn, then Bt corn would be less nutritious. If such substance happens to block the production of some harmful chemicals, such production will now be unblocked, and Bt corn will now contain more of these harmful chemicals. I'm not sure these will happen. But they are all plausible and since very little safety studies have been done on Bt corn (because the industry convinced FDA and EPA that Bt corn is substantially equivalent to natural corn and therefore does not need thorough scientific testing). >>> The truth is that these terrible life forms ARE with us, >>> but we accept them because we regard them as "natural." >> I presume you are referring here to GMOs. > >No, I was referring to ordinary weeds. I somehow cannot associate ordinary weeds with the term "terrible life forms". Bt corn or GE-soya maybe. Even ordinary weeds have an ecological role. Some of them have roots that dig deep into the soil and therefore bring near the surface the minerals and micronutrients that otherwise will be inaccessible to other plants. Others serve as alternate food for pests. Some weeds have medicinal properties. >There is no problem as far as I can tell, other than hysteria and >politicization. There is no problem of genetic contamination in the US? I believe this is now the second year that you can't export your contaminated corn and soya crops to Europe. Please don't bury your head in the sand. >As I have written to you privately, Pioneer is deeply concerned with this >issue, and we are studying it vigorously (you would be awestruck at the >scale of this research). But it is purely a response to an imaginary >problem (IMO - I don't know what our official policy is!). I should be awestruck at the scale of your research, and you tell me the problem is imaginary? All seed companies are probably scared to death, due to the contamination they've caused. Is Pioneer insured against liability? What if corn farmers whose fields are contaminated sue you for damages? >farmer-customers need to be able to meet thresholds for genetic >contamination set by the EC. Those European consumers who care so much >about this are simply mistaken. But we can, and will provide genuinely >GMO-free seed. How do you know they're mistaken about their safety concerns, when Pioneer has done no research which has been published on peer-reviewed journals concerning the safety of Bt corn for animal or human consumption? >PS: We would stand on our head and recite poetry to the seed if our >customers wanted that. That's a nice PR line. If your customers wanted you to remove any risk of genetic contamination by not selling Bt corn and other GE-crops, would you do that? Roberto Verzola To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sat Oct 23 23:17:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07511 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26799 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:47:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26764 for ; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from p2 (d15-as1-can.alphalink.com.au [202.161.121.142] (may be forged)) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA12920; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:44:44 +1100 From: "Argall Family" To: "Pat Elazar" , "Rachael Pettus" Cc: Subject: RE: compost contents Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:52:05 +1000 Message-ID: <000201bf1dca$c17c2080$8e79a1ca@p2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-To: <99Oct23.083639cdt.26882@mint.cwb.ca> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3396 Rachael asked about eucalyptus leaves in compost. Pat replied: I noticed on my home farm where we had lots of old Eucalyptus groves that nothing lived either under them or in them so I never tried using them in my compost (we had lots of chicken manure, spoiled hay & unlimited sawdust). On the other hand, the leaves did rot on the ground so they theoretically would rot in a pile? Speaking from the home of eucalypts [Australia] I can confirm that they will not help in the compost. Eucalyptus oil is, as you may be aware, a good disinfectant, as well as a powerful decongestant inhalant. They will certainly slow oxidation, and we do not normally use them in compost. Where they are added, they tend to break down very slowly, though often with a lot of fungi at work near them - the leaves themselves are pretty water repellant and so air and water are trapped around them. But a layer of such leaves in a heap of better rotten material will remain a layer of undigested black leaves for a long time. When we have filled a black plastic type bin, and want to leave it for some time to rot away, a few shovel scrapes of driveway runoff with eucalyptus leaf material makes a good cover layer to exclude flies, etc. Eucalyptus bark and leaves make a good mulch, slow to break down, and with all the tumbling bark strips, quite attractive, if you like the style of the Australian native garden. But not a mulch for vegetables or the like, probably some allopathic effect. I once bought a load of 'compost' from the local recycling centre (it is illegal here to add garden material to the garbage bin; loads of garden cuttings to 4 inch diameter are accepted for recycling. The effect of this quite well aged looking 'compost' was to cause small plants to shrink before the eyes, almost - probably a combination of high ration of C to N, probably heaps of other deficiencies, especially P, but also probably allelopathy. But it obviously sells. We have some eucalypts alongside our fruit orchard. Trees don't grow so well under them. On the other hand, asparagus and strawberries do. This in good deep soil, though. Grass will certainly grow under eucalypts with irrigation (take the walk along main path of Australian National Botanic Garden at http://www.anbg.gov.au/main-path/path.html - but the picture with the grass is far from a natural looking environment). I suspect that a major factor in Pat's groves may have been water competition. Eucalypts, while an adaptation to our phosphorus deficient soils, have been used in a number of other countries in revegetation projects, sometimes with negative effects as they have in some situations become overcompetitive, tending to monoculture without the company of other Australian flora. The other reason why they will survive where other trees will not is that over a long period, they have, as have other Australia plants, adapted to survive fast moving forest fire (blackened trees produce new growth swiftly), and their seeds do not germinate without fire, or immersion in boiling water or sandpapering or a quick spin in a coffee grinder. So in circumstances where many European-American forests will vanish with fire or drought, a eucalypt forest will be rejuvenated. Dominant in the natural forest landscape (to generalise for an area the size of continental USA) is litter from eucalyptus bark and leaves, shed all year, this litter being, in pre-human times and in Aboriginal traditional land management (farming with fire), limited and reduced by regular burning, lighter, more frequent fire having a refreshing impact on the environment rather than infrequent very intense and destructive fires (an important learning experience in the 'modern' management of Australian native forests in recent decades - trying to exclude all fire leads to catastrophic fire). Dennis To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 24 02:09:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08837 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19768 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:48:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19755 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.38.11.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.38.11]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27452; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380FE5FF.CBD8D7BE@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:20:15 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Byron Simonds CC: Bluestem Associates , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Organic --- extension & land grants References: <991021120528.ZM25818@hertford.ces.state.nc.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3397 I felt I had a good measure of farm advisors when I went to their bookshelf to look for a book I could not afford to have myself, and had seen there, but then found that the WHOLE BOOKSHELF had been thrown away. I'll never get over regretting that I did not just help myself to those books, since the Ext people did not value them. I think one was Hunger Signs in Crops, unobtainable now and that I want so very much. Byron Simonds wrote: > WAIT A MINUTE, This is toting the dog hunting isn't it instead of teaching it > to hunt? > > On Oct 21, 3:20pm, Bluestem Associates wrote: > > Subject: Organic --- extension & land grants > > Organic and quasi organic farmers should just get on with building > > their businesses and caring for their land. If you need a grant to do > > it, it's probably not sustainable anyway. Don't worry about > > recognition from extension and land grants. If you do a good and > > sustainable job without always coming to the public teat you might > > eventually attract their attention anyway. > > > > Don't bother trying to imitate the folly of the broader organic > > industry in the US, much of which sought an ego-boost in the form of > > government legislation recognising organics. The resulting boondoggle > > may yet make it into the annals of history as the biggest and most > > domineering bureaucracy ever developed for such a marginal segment of > > an industry. > > > > Looking for acknowledgement from extension and land grants seemingly > > repeats the same errors, albeit on a smaller scale. If you've got an > > interested and cooperative ag rep / extension agent, great. If not, > > don't waste your time. > > > > Darrell Norton, director of the USDA's National Soil Erosion Research > > Laboratory at Purdue, put it very succinctly --- " A lot of extension > > people stop learning when they finish their degrees." [Wisconsin > > Agriculturalist, May 1998] > > > > Bart > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > >-- End of excerpt from Bluestem Associates > > -- > Byron Simonds > E-Mail : bsimonds@hertford > Internet: bsimonds@hertford.ces.ncsu.edu > Phone : (252) 358-7822 > Fax : (252) 358-7880 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 24 02:09:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08849 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19848 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:48:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19828 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.38.11.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.38.11]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27813; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380FEC5B.16555371@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:47:23 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Douglas Hinds CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: monsters that change? References: <10347.991021@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3398 woolly mammoths. How many people are aware that there are scads of buried-in-ice mammoths in the icy land near the Arctic Circle? That they died suddenly is seen in that there is still green grass in their mouths--some of them, of course. Not all were eating when the Flood hit them suddenly. When enough ice melts, in a particular spot, dogs will come running to eat that meat, that is palatable still--fast frozen, fresh frozen--whatever you want to call it. Sometimes an area will warm up enough so that whole chunks of land break off and fall into the local water where the mammoths were when the Flood iniated their freezing. Interesting read, those accounts. Douglas Hinds wrote: > Hello Roberto, > > Good Post! > > Friday, October 15, 1999, 1:28:41 AM, you wrote: > > ... > > RV> I had been thinking, actually, of writing a piece I'd entitle: "How do > RV> you slay a corporation?" Our ancestors could slay the biggest monster > RV> of their time, the wooly mammoth. The biggest monsters of our time are > RV> corporations. ... > > RV> A wounded elephant is very dangerous. A wounded corporation is > RV> even more so. We now learning how to inflict wounds on a > RV> corporation, but we have not learned yet how to slay one. But > RV> we're getting there. Soon, I hope. > > RV> Roberto Verzola > > It is very difficult to slay a corporation and the idea is not very > compatible with sustainability. Think of them as pests, which you > don't try to eradicate, but rather control; and the best way to do > that is by establishing a healthy environment, on a global (literally > and figuratively) scale, as well as implementing a strategy specific > to the characteristics of the particular pest and it's needs and > habits. > > While corporations obviously have ample means to work against this, > the battle is there to be waged, from within and without. "Winning" > requires being as well organized and efficient as a corporation, but > in a more inclusive, comprehensive way. The "system" is more than > what "they" take into account, and this is both the strength and > weakness of the corporations. > > By limiting their focus and ignoring long term and wide spread > damages, they can concentrate on short term and locally (i.e., good > for the corporation, according to their own convoluted criteria) > concentrated benefits. > > However, in the long term, the very factor of being exclusive is what > generates "better", more universal alternatives outside of it, that > focus on issues that while harder to define, culminate in a sense of > the quality of life and even, of life versus death. > > The best case in point that comes to mind is that of big tobacco, It > took a while, but they seem to be judicially dead, at least for now > and in only some jurisdictions. > > This is all good theory but in practice, of course SOMEONE has to wage > the battle and it will take a lot of unity on the part of many to > accomplish this goal - just like the way a corporation works, with > different, more limited goals. > > Dale may say that the goals of a "good" corporation are no different > and he may be right. The problem is, for them to get to be good, they > have to get their asses good and kicked once in a while. Right Dale? > They don't do it alone. They do it in the context they are really in, > once that's made known to (not by) them. Although they may deny that > (which isn't important - the element of control is). > > In the end, the corporations are made up of people and you are right > Roberto, in that people can lose control. When that happens, this must > be corrected from without, in order for the people within to BE > people again. > > Douglas Hinds > CeDeCoR, A.C. > dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 24 02:11:56 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08865 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19914 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:48:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19902 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06382 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.38.11.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.38.11]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28098; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380FF563.A38486D1@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:25:56 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joel Brooks Gruver CC: Edna M Weigel , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: insect (true bug) control on pistachios References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3399 I get some wonderful almonds from a BIOS place in northern Calif. By the way, does anyone know where I can get RAW pistatio nuts? Those I have seen for sale at a store always without fail have mixed in many rancid nuts. I'd like to buy directly from the person who grows the trees and harvests the nuts, so I could get them right off the tree, so to speak, not stored until rancid. Joel Brooks Gruver wrote: > Hello Edna and all others... > > Several years ago, a friend gave me a copy of the farm magazine "Farmer > to Farmer", issue # 18, January-February 1997. This magazine is/was > published 5 times a year by the Community Alliance with Family Farmers. > Issue #18 has many great articles including one titled "New Tests of Soil > Quality" (which I think is why my friend gave me a copy) and one titled > "Do Pistachios require inputs every year ?" I would definitely recommend > that anyone interested in ecologically based Pistachio production should > contact the author of the article, Max Stevenson. His e-mail in 1997 was > mtstevenson@ucdavis.edu. > > The cover article of Issue #18 is about the BIOS > (Biologically Integrated Orchard Systems) program. The BIOS program > sounds really excellent. I would definitely recommend that anyone > interested in ecologically based tree crop production in California or > similar climate should contact BIOS at bioas@caff.org. > > Joel Gruver > Center for Agriculture, Food and Environment > Tufts University > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 24 02:13:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08872 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19888 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:48:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19857 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.38.11.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.38.11]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27919; Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <380FEF43.CC72CF0E@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:59:47 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: awiediger@Hart.k12.ky.us CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Free range eggs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3400 I always pay more than $2--closer to $3, and those are from chickens running on the ground, and fertile. awiediger@Hart.k12.ky.us wrote: > > ---------- > > From: Andy Lee & Pat Foreman[SMTP:goodearth@rockbridge.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 4:53 PM > > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > > Subject: Free range eggs > > > > > > > > > > > > We need a new paradigm if we are to design and build farms that our > > children > > will want to own. > > > Totally agreed. > > > A $1 per dozen profit IS realistic, and what's more, it is NECESSARY, if > > we > > are to keep our farms profitable, for this generation and the next. > Disagree here - it may be possible some places, but not here in > South > Central Kentucky. We just raised our process to $1.25/dozen at the > farmers' market and met a lot of resistance. We may raise to $1.50 next > year - but we'll lose customers. At $2.00/dozen or higher, we'd come > home with most of our eggs. > > > Jim, you > > might be correct in saying that performance will suffer. Perhaps we can't > > produce as many eggs per hen as the commercial people can. But, why would > > we > > want to? The commercial paradigm burns out the hens, burns out the farmer, > > and gives the consumer a pale, soft and watery egg that has no flavor and > > probably very little nutritional value. > > > I agree, the product is far superior. We won't buy eggs any more. If > our > hens stop laying in the middle of the winter, we do without until > February > light levels start them again. But when the grocery stores run specials > of 39 cents a dozen, it's a hard sell for a lot of consumers. > > > Consumers will pay $2 per dozen, and more. > > Andy Lee > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 24 11:12:01 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11953 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:12:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25235 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25121 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bermuda-asy-47.rutgers.edu (bermuda-asy-47.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.175]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA11885; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:30:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: bermuda-asy-47.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.175] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <381341F1.6F1F@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:29:21 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet Subject: Re: composting References: <3.0.6.32.19991023141405.008c82b0@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3401 mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > I have one question, who spreads aminal manure on crops "close to the date > of harvest"? In my experience (100 or so people) nobody under the sun does this. I always figured it as part of the strategy of the "biosolids" boosters to completely obfuscate the actual issue (the synthetic compounds and levels of metals) for organic farms, by hijacking it with continued repetition of the terror of fresh poop, so they could once again tell us about the wonders of class A biosolids. I assume that somewhere, deep down inside, at least some of the people at the Water Environment Federation actually do know the difference between elements, microorganisms, helminth ova, and chlordane, so I must further assume that the "confusion" is intentional. I shall leave the other organizations involved in this charade nameless to avoid hurting the feelings of their fine employees, many of whom really are trying to do the right thing despite the leadership and structure of unsaid public agencies. They (WEF) essentially want cowpies, even from singular cows from pasture at sane stocking rates, regulated just like sewage sludge, don't ya know? I know this because I'm not just an unwilling citizen victim here, I'm a member, so I get their fine publications and I read them. > This goes against common sense and I doubt that is allowed > in certified organic operations. It just seems to be a bit of a "when did > you stop beating your wife" type of argument. Mike Miller I think you have correctly identified the central theme here :) Loren Muldowney To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 24 15:15:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13526 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20239 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:45:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20130 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP329.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.107]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA15114 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <381354AD.D494AC7@sprintmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:49:17 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Time and the Benefit of BT Corn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3402 Tom, Thanks for the new dimension on this thread- a perspective that all of us ignores most of the time. Or is it most of us all the time? ;>) You wrote 2 things which I try to keep in perspective: "It is true that the human meanderings have been on a much shorter time scale than Nature who has suffered many catastrophes in her path to today. In fact, it has been remarked that humans may be one of her chance inventions and that intelligence is not necessarily a survival characteristic." And: "Time is the issue; and the problems such as GMO's are only one way in which this issue becomes manifest. Human ego makes it difficult to believe that a person may be but one grain in an infinite game." My background (education) is in Geology and one must have a different perspective on time to consider a million years as a short period. Or to see the continental US as an ocean basin in previous times. Humanity is, so far, only a flash bulb in time compared to a sun. And yet we have the audacity to speak of "what's good for the future." And "intelligence is not necessarily a survival characteristic" is both humorous and true. It reminds me that "normalcy" is defined as a majority statistic. We are not patient, as you point out, only interested in how we can benefit instantly. And rightly so, since none of us has the luxury to hang around for 200,000 years to see what the effects of our actions really are. I tell my classes that agriculture is an unnatural act and through it we've depleted soil fertility, but that nature can repair the damage in a few hundred thousand years. Then I ask how many want to wait that long. Next we get down to how one rebuilds soil fertility in a human (and economic) scale of time. And you may be right that arguments about things like GMOs may be only a symptom of the larger problem (or issue). I think that the problem is a lack of REAL ethics in the scientific community. We should be asking questions like, "Is it ethical to create a bomb that has the potential to destroy civilization?" Then this decision determines whether or not we work on it. This brings me around to my definition of a scientist and a technician: A scientist asks her/himself these questions and determines what should be worked on. A technician isn't aware of the questions and works on anything that may be fascinating or profitable. I leave you with the words of a wise old one, kind of a self-taught Zen Master : "Hit don't matter, and what if it did?" Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 24 16:40:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14326 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23770 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:14:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.a001.sprintmail.com (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23701 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP329.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.107]) by crow.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16234 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38136963.CFDF4F74@sprintmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:17:39 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3403 Dale wrote: There is no problem as far as I can tell, other than hysteria and politicization. As I have written to you privately, Pioneer is deeply concerned with this issue, and we are studying it vigorously (you would be awestruck at the scale of this research). But it is purely a response to an imaginary problem (IMO - I don't know what our official policy is!). To which Roberto replied: There is no problem of genetic contamination in the US? I believe this is now the second year that you can't export your contaminated corn and soya crops to Europe. Please don't bury your head in the sand. I should be awestruck at the scale of your research, and you tell me the problem is imaginary? All seed companies are probably scared to death, due to the contamination they've caused. Is Pioneer insured against liability? What if corn farmers whose fields are contaminated sue you for damages? To which I add: Roberto, you may have uncovered what's really going on. If I were running a company producing GMOs and all this fuss was just "hysteria and politicization," I would spend my money on PR and spin doctors. Not, "...studying it vigorously (you would be awestruck at the scale of this research)." Since Pioneer is spending it's money on this awesome amount of research, there must be a problem. Otherwise, why not spend the money where it will produce the most profit in the long run? I thought that was the purpose of capital corporations. And, Roberto, you asked what if farmers sue for contamination of their crops by Bt corn. Again, Pioneer is spending money on research. I would spend it on a staff of civil lawyers to prepare for these *unwarranted and unsubstantiated* cases. Look to where the money is spent (this is what corporations run on) to tell you where they're going. All the rest is, at best, wishful thinking; at worst, damage control. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Sun Oct 24 17:33:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15102 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02012 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:11:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (mailmtx.acnet.net [170.76.16.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01825 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:11:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.142] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:08:49 -0500 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 16:06:03 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <6670.991024@acnet.net> To: Alex McGregor CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re[2]: Time and the "Benefit" of BT Corn In-reply-To: <381354AD.D494AC7@sprintmail.com> References: <381354AD.D494AC7@sprintmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3404 Hello Alex, Sunday, October 24, 1999, 12:49:17 PM, you quoted Tom: ... AM> "Time is the issue; and the problems such as GMO's are only one way in AM> which this issue becomes manifest. ... and added AM> And you may be right that arguments about things like GMOs may be only a AM> symptom of the larger problem (or issue). I think that the problem is a AM> lack of REAL ethics in the scientific community. Lack of defined goals came to mind. But you said: AM> This brings me around to my definition of a scientist and a technician: AM> A scientist asks her/himself these questions and determines what should AM> be worked on. A technician isn't aware of the questions and works on AM> anything that may be fascinating or profitable. What should be worked on - an attempt to define goals ... AM> Alex Zen - a good way to maintain perspective and tolerate things enough to persist, while continuing to work towards one's goals. Back to GMO's. (The main motive for this note. I've said this before and I'll say it again): Does anyone else believe as I do, that GMO's are simply a more obvious (and probably more dangerous, due to their potential for extended proliferation), manifestation of the same mentality that brought us grafted trees - which have been widely accepted even within the inner circles of organic farming. To me, this is discouraging, which is why I will continue to sound out this group on the issue now and then. The same invasive, out of context, self serving, myopic ball of pretexts; that justify actions which damage the integrity of other (and to my mind superior) organisms, producing (of course) an inferior human food supply system, as a disappointing, melodramatic result. Douglas Hinds, CeDeCoR, A.C. dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Oct 24 06:00:03 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10234 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 06:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14613 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:19:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14526 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id RAA21475; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:17:11 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id RAA04224; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:44:02 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910240944.RAA04224@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 24 Oct 99 16:48:41 Subject: About Percy Schmeiser v. Monsanto To: gentech@ping.de Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3405 Who's Our "Man of the Hour" ? Percy Schmeiser - The Gutsy Canadian Farmer Who Dares Take on Monsanto Speaking in an overflowing auditorium October 21, Percy Schmeiser, a farmer and Mayor of Bruno, Saskatchewan, had the attention and sympathies of 250 concerned citizens at the Harbour Towers Hotel in Victoria. Accompanied by Lynn Hunter, ex-MP for the British Columbia New Democratic Party and presently a fish aquaculture specialist with the David Suzuki Foundation, he spoke to a hushed crowd of citizens brought together by C.A.S.E.S (the Citizens Action to Save the Environment Society). CASES is the one of the best known environmental groups in Victoria, headed by veteran activists Derek and Gwen Mallard. Mr. Schmeiser's talk was at most revealing, shocking, and anything but comical as he described measures taken by Monsanto to bring legal action against him for allegedly growing a genetically modified canola crop without ever having purchased seed, nor signing a contract. A proud farmer of 40 years whose expertise grew out of life experience while picking up tips from the customers/farmers who frequented his day job as a farm equipment dealer, Percy was darned proud of his seed. As he tells it, in 1948, Monsanto reps came out with DDT to control wild mustard weed abundantly growing on the Prairies. The reps said that it would kill all the weeds and that's the same line being used now. Monsanto adverts suggest to "Spray 'Roundup' just before harvest" to sell more wheat, peas, and barley. By spraying on low-lying areas and hills, Roundup causes the field to evenly ripen, but also kills the germination of next year's crop. This year, Percy had to buy new seed to replace his contaminated 1400 hundred acres. This fall, the Barley Grower's Association refused to buy barley sprayed with Roundup. Over 1/2 the countries worldwide won't buy genetically engineered Canola. Since the Canadian Government has allowed the growing of these crops, Schmeiser asks, "Why should these (other) farmers be penalized?" for the mistakes being made on neighbouring land. And then there's the issue of the lawsuit. He states that not only did he never attend a meeting for the purpose of purchasing seeds from Monsanto, he never purchased seed, nor signed a contract (which would have occurred at the time of purchase). He hasn't even spoken to any of their reps. Since the big M could not bring forth a hard-copy contract as proof, they have since abandoned the claim that Schmeiser signed a contract. What they are saying, however, is that anyone caught with their seed in their crop is guilty of infringing upon their patent. And this is how they're trying to get Schmeiser. Monsanto advertizes that genetically altered canola can be sprayed. Mr. Schmeiser says that while it may be cheaper the first year, cross-pollination from the crop increases by 30% a year, meaning four to five times as much pesticide is needed to control weeds on subsequent crops. In the end, GE crops are no bargain for farmers, many of whom now fear for their livelihood, and some, like Schmeiser, fear for their lives. (He takes an armed guard with him while traveling in his truck.) What takes place to encourage well-meaning farmers throughout North America to consider planting such a environmentally questionable crop in the first place? Farmers are first invited to a meeting attended by an array of high-pressure salesmen. They are then told something along the lines of, "We'll sell you the seed, you sign our contract, but you must sell the seed back to us and buy it again next year." There is a $15 "technology charge" to accompany the spiel, and for every year thereafter. After the farmer succumbs to purchase, the farmer must sign a contract stating that Monsanto has the right to tread upon their land for 3 years following to check on whether or not their seed is growing. This is done to avoid infractions and doesn't take into consideration occurances of cross-pollination. It should also be mentioned that Monsanto has the right not only to its patented seed technology, but legally owns the plants and profits from that crop. "It doesn't matter how genetically modified seed got on anybody's land," say Schmeiser, "...they say they have the gene. They have a patent on the gene. Now, they're trying to come in the back door. They have complete control over that plant, that seed. Monsanto says, 'It's ours...' We don't have rights left!" In Saskatchewan and Alberta, if chemical spray from a neighbouring crop pollutes adjacent land, the farmer has the right to sue. But you can't sue for genetic pollution from a genetically engineered crop. What if a farmer is caught with patented seed? If the farmer has the unlucky experience of getting caught, he or she is fined the dollar value of the crop, plus has to sign a trade non-disclosure agreement regarding the incident. Farmers are then told to keep quiet about the infraction. But that deal works only one way: Monsanto's way. Having been caught with his seeds in the soil, one innocent and unsuspecting farmer was caught mixing leftover GM soybean seeds with next year's crop. Someone squealed on him. It cost him his $37,000 crop. After signing the trade non-disclosure agreement and being told to keep it quiet, he was more than a little surprised to hear his name mentioned two days later in a Monsanto radio ad threatening other farmers. The company had broadcast news of the infraction for the world to hear, although he was legally bound to keep his mouth shut. At this point, the farmer's hands are tied, but Monsanto can very publically say what they like about him. How are these rogue farmers caught, you ask? For a time there, Monsanto had a 1-800 number in place to take calls from neighbouring farmers. Since an uproar occurred about that, they have since changed to encouraging farmers attending prospect meetings to tell on their neighbours, instead. In exchange for their telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth on their acquaintances, neighbours, and friends, Monsanto has sweetened the pot with a shiny, new, black-leather jacket. The line that accompanies the ploy goes something like, "he hasn't paid his $15 technology fee, so, you see, we're not playing on a level playing field..." Upon exchange of the info, the reward is handed out. How do others get caught? Monsanto is said to have sent investigators onto farmers' land (without their knowledge or consent) to take a sample of the crop. One woman was surprised to see investigators at her door claiming she had stolen Monsanto's genetically altered canola seed. They desired to take a sample from her land. After being ordered off her property, a large flying entity is said to have come back a week later in the form of a helicotopter tanker distributing genetically polluted seed on her land. She didn't speak out. What of cross-pollination? Mr. Schmeiser calls GE seeds genetic pollution and weeds that destroy other crops. "GE crops are a major, major weed we will never get rid of..." he says, "How do we get rid of it? How will we get rid of it?" When Monsanto allows rightful use of their seed by farmers, their tactics seem anything but fair. In 1996-97, the canola really flew when Roundup Ready Canola that contained a rogue seed was sown on 65,000 acres of land. Although a massive recall took place, some farmers had already seeded. A dangerous gene can get out, but did it? Monsanto found out that one farmer had 1000's of bushels of this seed still in his possession, although a good amount had already been sown. They refuse to reveal what type of gene it contained, or why they were so concerned. "They've been very secretive about it." And now for the kicker. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency has had its funding dollars cut so they don't have the necessary resources to test GE seeds, or their potential affect on natural crops. Their decisions are being based solely upon data provided by the company. If having chemically polluted food placed in your mouth against your will is not enough, ponder this: Says Schmeiser, "They want control of the seed supply...they get control of the food supply...you got control of the country." Now, Monsanto is moving into water. It's time we told our politicians that enough is enough and spoke out with our own financial voice. God knows they don't need any more of our dollars. ************************ You may support Percy Schmeiser's continuing battle against Monsanto by helping his legal defence. Please send your cheques and money orders to help with Percy's fight. Taking on a giant can get _tremendously_ expensive. A trust has been established at "Fight Genetically Altered Food Fund Inc." CIBC (Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce), 603 Main St. Humboldt SK Canada SOK 2AO - Phone No. (306) 682-2614 His website may be found at: http://www.fightfrankenfoods.com ****************************************** Joanne Stephenson is a social and environmental activist, free-lance writer, creator of the online KIN International activist group, and the host of The Social Activist's Site for World Peace at http://www.inetex.com/joanne She has been actively involved in numerous online campaigns, and sends out a weekly newsletter. You may receive a copy of the newsletter by writing joanne@inetex.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Sun Oct 24 06:00:03 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10234 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 06:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14613 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:19:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14526 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 05:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id RAA21475; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:17:11 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id RAA04224; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:44:02 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910240944.RAA04224@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 24 Oct 99 16:48:41 Subject: About Percy Schmeiser v. Monsanto To: gentech@ping.de Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3406 Who's Our "Man of the Hour" ? Percy Schmeiser - The Gutsy Canadian Farmer Who Dares Take on Monsanto Speaking in an overflowing auditorium October 21, Percy Schmeiser, a farmer and Mayor of Bruno, Saskatchewan, had the attention and sympathies of 250 concerned citizens at the Harbour Towers Hotel in Victoria. Accompanied by Lynn Hunter, ex-MP for the British Columbia New Democratic Party and presently a fish aquaculture specialist with the David Suzuki Foundation, he spoke to a hushed crowd of citizens brought together by C.A.S.E.S (the Citizens Action to Save the Environment Society). CASES is the one of the best known environmental groups in Victoria, headed by veteran activists Derek and Gwen Mallard. Mr. Schmeiser's talk was at most revealing, shocking, and anything but comical as he described measures taken by Monsanto to bring legal action against him for allegedly growing a genetically modified canola crop without ever having purchased seed, nor signing a contract. A proud farmer of 40 years whose expertise grew out of life experience while picking up tips from the customers/farmers who frequented his day job as a farm equipment dealer, Percy was darned proud of his seed. As he tells it, in 1948, Monsanto reps came out with DDT to control wild mustard weed abundantly growing on the Prairies. The reps said that it would kill all the weeds and that's the same line being used now. Monsanto adverts suggest to "Spray 'Roundup' just before harvest" to sell more wheat, peas, and barley. By spraying on low-lying areas and hills, Roundup causes the field to evenly ripen, but also kills the germination of next year's crop. This year, Percy had to buy new seed to replace his contaminated 1400 hundred acres. This fall, the Barley Grower's Association refused to buy barley sprayed with Roundup. Over 1/2 the countries worldwide won't buy genetically engineered Canola. Since the Canadian Government has allowed the growing of these crops, Schmeiser asks, "Why should these (other) farmers be penalized?" for the mistakes being made on neighbouring land. And then there's the issue of the lawsuit. He states that not only did he never attend a meeting for the purpose of purchasing seeds from Monsanto, he never purchased seed, nor signed a contract (which would have occurred at the time of purchase). He hasn't even spoken to any of their reps. Since the big M could not bring forth a hard-copy contract as proof, they have since abandoned the claim that Schmeiser signed a contract. What they are saying, however, is that anyone caught with their seed in their crop is guilty of infringing upon their patent. And this is how they're trying to get Schmeiser. Monsanto advertizes that genetically altered canola can be sprayed. Mr. Schmeiser says that while it may be cheaper the first year, cross-pollination from the crop increases by 30% a year, meaning four to five times as much pesticide is needed to control weeds on subsequent crops. In the end, GE crops are no bargain for farmers, many of whom now fear for their livelihood, and some, like Schmeiser, fear for their lives. (He takes an armed guard with him while traveling in his truck.) What takes place to encourage well-meaning farmers throughout North America to consider planting such a environmentally questionable crop in the first place? Farmers are first invited to a meeting attended by an array of high-pressure salesmen. They are then told something along the lines of, "We'll sell you the seed, you sign our contract, but you must sell the seed back to us and buy it again next year." There is a $15 "technology charge" to accompany the spiel, and for every year thereafter. After the farmer succumbs to purchase, the farmer must sign a contract stating that Monsanto has the right to tread upon their land for 3 years following to check on whether or not their seed is growing. This is done to avoid infractions and doesn't take into consideration occurances of cross-pollination. It should also be mentioned that Monsanto has the right not only to its patented seed technology, but legally owns the plants and profits from that crop. "It doesn't matter how genetically modified seed got on anybody's land," say Schmeiser, "...they say they have the gene. They have a patent on the gene. Now, they're trying to come in the back door. They have complete control over that plant, that seed. Monsanto says, 'It's ours...' We don't have rights left!" In Saskatchewan and Alberta, if chemical spray from a neighbouring crop pollutes adjacent land, the farmer has the right to sue. But you can't sue for genetic pollution from a genetically engineered crop. What if a farmer is caught with patented seed? If the farmer has the unlucky experience of getting caught, he or she is fined the dollar value of the crop, plus has to sign a trade non-disclosure agreement regarding the incident. Farmers are then told to keep quiet about the infraction. But that deal works only one way: Monsanto's way. Having been caught with his seeds in the soil, one innocent and unsuspecting farmer was caught mixing leftover GM soybean seeds with next year's crop. Someone squealed on him. It cost him his $37,000 crop. After signing the trade non-disclosure agreement and being told to keep it quiet, he was more than a little surprised to hear his name mentioned two days later in a Monsanto radio ad threatening other farmers. The company had broadcast news of the infraction for the world to hear, although he was legally bound to keep his mouth shut. At this point, the farmer's hands are tied, but Monsanto can very publically say what they like about him. How are these rogue farmers caught, you ask? For a time there, Monsanto had a 1-800 number in place to take calls from neighbouring farmers. Since an uproar occurred about that, they have since changed to encouraging farmers attending prospect meetings to tell on their neighbours, instead. In exchange for their telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth on their acquaintances, neighbours, and friends, Monsanto has sweetened the pot with a shiny, new, black-leather jacket. The line that accompanies the ploy goes something like, "he hasn't paid his $15 technology fee, so, you see, we're not playing on a level playing field..." Upon exchange of the info, the reward is handed out. How do others get caught? Monsanto is said to have sent investigators onto farmers' land (without their knowledge or consent) to take a sample of the crop. One woman was surprised to see investigators at her door claiming she had stolen Monsanto's genetically altered canola seed. They desired to take a sample from her land. After being ordered off her property, a large flying entity is said to have come back a week later in the form of a helicotopter tanker distributing genetically polluted seed on her land. She didn't speak out. What of cross-pollination? Mr. Schmeiser calls GE seeds genetic pollution and weeds that destroy other crops. "GE crops are a major, major weed we will never get rid of..." he says, "How do we get rid of it? How will we get rid of it?" When Monsanto allows rightful use of their seed by farmers, their tactics seem anything but fair. In 1996-97, the canola really flew when Roundup Ready Canola that contained a rogue seed was sown on 65,000 acres of land. Although a massive recall took place, some farmers had already seeded. A dangerous gene can get out, but did it? Monsanto found out that one farmer had 1000's of bushels of this seed still in his possession, although a good amount had already been sown. They refuse to reveal what type of gene it contained, or why they were so concerned. "They've been very secretive about it." And now for the kicker. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency has had its funding dollars cut so they don't have the necessary resources to test GE seeds, or their potential affect on natural crops. Their decisions are being based solely upon data provided by the company. If having chemically polluted food placed in your mouth against your will is not enough, ponder this: Says Schmeiser, "They want control of the seed supply...they get control of the food supply...you got control of the country." Now, Monsanto is moving into water. It's time we told our politicians that enough is enough and spoke out with our own financial voice. God knows they don't need any more of our dollars. ************************ You may support Percy Schmeiser's continuing battle against Monsanto by helping his legal defence. Please send your cheques and money orders to help with Percy's fight. Taking on a giant can get _tremendously_ expensive. A trust has been established at "Fight Genetically Altered Food Fund Inc." CIBC (Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce), 603 Main St. Humboldt SK Canada SOK 2AO - Phone No. (306) 682-2614 His website may be found at: http://www.fightfrankenfoods.com ****************************************** Joanne Stephenson is a social and environmental activist, free-lance writer, creator of the online KIN International activist group, and the host of The Social Activist's Site for World Peace at http://www.inetex.com/joanne She has been actively involved in numerous online campaigns, and sends out a weekly newsletter. You may receive a copy of the newsletter by writing joanne@inetex.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 01:32:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19493 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA01813 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:06:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.67]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01692 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991025050405.MTKU16289.lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:04:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3813E51F.33B22EB0@home.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:05:36 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: [Fwd: Milk as fungicide] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3407 Better than benomyl...... """" Milk Makes Mold Retreat Offers organic farmers a chemical-free fungus fighter, study says By Nancy A. Melville HealthSCOUT Reporter SUNDAY, Oct. 24 (HealthSCOUT) -- Got mold? Get milk. ............ Researchers in Brazil say they've learned that simply spraying organically grown vegetables with milk can be more effective than the best chemicals in destroying a powdery white mildew known as Sphaerotheca fuliginea, which appears on the leaves of cucumbers and zucchini. The discovery, described in a recent issue of New Scientist, came after researchers noticed that byproducts from milk-processing factories worked in killing the mildew on zucchini. """" just an exceerpt; full text at....> > http://www.healthscout.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Af?id=66007&ap=43 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 09:53:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23321 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04744 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:24:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04647 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.vt.edu (gkar.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.40]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA11883 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from host107.orange.unit.ext.vt.edu ([208.22.140.107]) by gkar.cc.vt.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FK500BGXUHYBN@gkar.cc.vt.edu> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:22:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:21:28 -0400 From: Peter Warren Subject: organic sweet corn pest management In-reply-to: <199910242210.SAA13105@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-Sender: plwarren@mail.vt.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-id: <3.0.5.32.19991025092128.008837a0@mail.vt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3408 Hello All, I am looking for some ideas for managing pests of sweet corn in Virginia in an organic way. Any information will be appreciated. Thanks for your time. Peter L. Warren Extension Agent, Integrated Pest Management Virginia Cooperative Extension P.O. Box 30, Orange, VA 22960 phone: (540)672-1361 fax: (540)672-0234 email: plwarren@vt.edu web: http://www.ext.vt.edu/offices/orange To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 10:02:06 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23438 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11089 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11017 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id MAA00664; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:59:35 GMT Message-ID: <38145428.F9D96485@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:59:21 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Programs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3409 FYI Saneteers: Some of this may be repeat info WESTERN SARE ANNOUNCES GRANT COMPETITION USDA's Western Region Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program is calling for proposals for producer-directed research efforts. Producers and producer groups in the Western U.S. can compete for grants to identify, evaluate, and test sustainable agriculture practices and challenges. Proposals must be led by one or more producers, include a professional agricultural technical advisor and provide a plan for sharing information with their communities. Applications will be accepted until 5:00 p.m., Mountain Standard Time, on January 17, 2000. To apply, contact the host office at Utah State University on (435) 797-2257, or check the web on The call for proposals will be available on-line after October 29 at MARCH 2000 Sustainable Agriculture Coming of Age in the Year 2000 Portland, Oregon March 7-9 Innovative agricultural techniques, scientific research, networking, visions of the future, and examples of successful sustainable agriculture. Sponsored by USDA Western Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education, with contributions from land-grant universities and the Federal sustainable agriculture effort. Check the web site at Global Sustainability Conference Springfield, Illinois March 28-29 Carbon sequestration and ecological practices in agriculture and forestry, global warming, water quality, bio-energy, soil health, world food security, production agriculture, and ecological economics. Sponsored by the Gallatin County Soil & Water Conservation District and the Shawnee RC&D Council. E-mail: For more information, see the conference agenda on the NRCS Illinois web site at: Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 10:02:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23451 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:02:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12524 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:37:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA12476 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA27868; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:35:45 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma027113; Mon, 25 Oct 99 08:35:20 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:35:19 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFB4@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Roberto Verzola'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:35:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3410 Hello Roberto, >> What I want from you is a plausible biological argument, >> not a political pronouncement. > That is an interesting request. It tells me that you are assuming > Bt corn is safe unless proven otherwise. I tend to view it as any other new cultivar. But I GMO's in general been evaluated pretty exhaustively from the perspective of safety. > Nonetheless, I will give you some plausible biological arguments: I don't have time right now to respond to the specifics of your argument. I will get back to you. >> There is no problem as far as I can tell, other than hysteria >> and politicization. > There is no problem of genetic contamination in the US? I believe this > is now the second year that you can't export your contaminated corn > and soya crops to Europe. Please don't bury your head in the sand. Of course the hysteria is a problem. But the problem, at it's root, results from peoples misplaced fears IMO. But you are right about this being a practical problem. I hope the seed industry is not burying it's head in the sand. Even if we think it is all bullshit, we have to respond to what people want and feel. > I should be awestruck at the scale of your research, and you tell me > the problem is imaginary? All seed companies are probably scared to > death, due to the contamination they've caused. Is Pioneer insured > against liability? What if corn farmers whose fields are contaminated > sue you for damages? Like I said, this problem that people have dreamed up, is real enough in a practical sense (but still bogus at some level IMO). My personal sense of this, is that the industry was caught off guard. Like I said before, the main concern was that we might accidentally sell GMO seed with a percent or two non-GMO contaminant. In some cases this could be very ugly in the customers field. I don't think anybody thought (at least in the production departments) that people would care if we accidentally got a little of the GMO pollen onto the non-GMO varieties! In terms of liability, when I was with the University, I worked with the vegetable seed industry in Idaho to help manage isolation among bee-pollinated seed crops. Mostly this all functioned by informal agreements and cooperation. But if someone planted red onions in the middle of a white onion area, I don't think there was any legal recourse (the fieldman might be shunned though!). I believe that if you want isolation from someone elses genetics, then you have to arrange it. If you want to isolate your organic corn field 660 feet from GMO varieties, you have to deal with, and possibly pay the surrounding growers to not grow GMO corn. If the wind blows hard during flowering, and you get a percent or two GMO contamination anyway, then it is your problem. This is not a new issue, and I believe there is legal precedent for all this. I will look into it. > How do you know they're mistaken about their safety concerns, > when Pioneer has done no research which has been published on > peer-reviewed journals concerning the safety of Bt corn for > animal or human consumption? Are you sure about that? Pioneer scientists publish in peer-reviewed journals quite often. But the main concern is meeting regulatory requirements. >> PS: We would stand on our head and recite poetry to the seed if our >> customers wanted that. > That's a nice PR line. If your customers wanted you to remove any risk > of genetic contamination by not selling Bt corn and other GE-crops, > would you do that? Mainly our customers have wanted to buy GMO seed. But who knows about next spring! I don't know if our crystal ball is working that good! But Pioneer's real strength is in elite background genetics. We will be able to supply good varieties to our customers regardless. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 10:10:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23643 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14423 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:41:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA14404 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:41:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id IAA04977; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:40:08 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma003965; Mon, 25 Oct 99 08:39:23 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:39:22 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFB5@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'Douglas Hinds'" , Alex McGregor Cc: sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Re[2]: Time and the "Benefit" of BT Corn Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:39:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3411 Dear Douglas, > Does anyone else believe as I do, that GMO's are simply a more > obvious....manifestation of the same mentality that brought us > grafted trees... I think you are right on target here. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 10:49:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24411 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04876 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:16:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04857 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:16:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id KAA09767; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <381466BC.D619A2BF@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:18:37 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmiller@pcsia.com CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, " " Subject: Re: composting References: <3.0.6.32.19991023141405.008c82b0@pcsia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3412 mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > Craig, at the bottom is a recent exchange on bacterial contamination which > includes some research results from, I think, Russ's dissertation. Maybe > he will chime in here with a more specific answer. > Two chapters of my upcoming thesis contain data regarding numbers of enteric bacteria (mainly Enterobacteraceae) in soils amended with synthetic fertilizers and organic soil amendments. While I didn't check the composts (or raw swine biosolids in one case) there were more enteric bacteria in soils with organic amendments, however, there were also enteric bacteria in soils with synthetic amendments. There were other organisms present in the soils as well: Trichoderma, Gliocladium, Thermophilic microorganisms (including actinomycetes, Penicillium, Aspergillus, and others), Fusarium, Phytophthora and Pythium, and Fluorescent Pseudomonad bacteria. All (with occasional exceptions) were more abundant in soils with organic amendments. As I've said, I didn't check the composts, so there is still a question there to be answered. > > I have one question, who spreads aminal manure on crops "close to the date > of harvest"? This goes against common sense and I doubt that is allowed > in certified organic operations. It just seems to be a bit of a "when did > you stop beating your wife" type of argument. Mike Miller > As far as I know, the answer to that is "No one in their right mind!" > > >Subject: composting > > > > > >as you can see, the foodsafe listserv is currently having a discussion on > >the safety of composted manure, and on the research supporting that . . . > >i'm not up on the research on composting, so i'm hoping that some on sanet > >can suggest some places to look for the research on this topic > >it would be helpful if any responses could be cc'd to: > > Bill.Adler@sunny.health.state.mn.us > > ral@lcfltd.com and > > rbfarr@erols.com > >thanks for any thoughts on this > >cheers, > >craig > > > >At 05:06 PM 10/22/99 -0500, Bill Adler wrote: > >>I think I'm missing soemthing here. This manure is organic waste from the > >guts of mammals. It's loaded with fecal organisms. Compost it and it's > >still going to be loaded with organisms, e.g. Lysteria, possibly E.coli > >0157, Campylobacter, C. Bot, etc. There should be lots of organisms, > >especially spore formers, left in it and there is the potential the > >products it is placed on will be contaminated with them if the manure > >application is close to the date of harvest. > >Hmm. I was under the impression that vegetables were still grown in 'dirt', > >a substance that is known to carry all of the organisms specified! Should we > >be alarmed? > >Facetiousness aside, the composting replaces the original flora with a new > >one, chiefly lactic acid bacteria and others. > >Where is the risk in manure? It's in having too large a population of human > >pathogens, due to composting not taking place long enough. > >How long must composting take place to make manure safe? Good question, and > >where's the research supporting it? Pasteurization of composted materials usually occurs after several days at 60-70 degrees C. Correctly composted materials will achieve these temps easily. There is much research on compost (AGRICOLA and Web of Science each listed 2500 articles with the key word "Compost"). The following are a few from AGRICOLA and Web of Science: Bess V. 1999. Evaluating microbiology of compost. BIOCYCLE 40: (5) 62-64. Diaper,-J.P.; Edwards,-C. 1994. Flow cytometric detection of viable bacteria in compost. FEMS-microbiol-ecol. [Amsterdam] : 14 (3) p. 213-220. Vuorinen AH, Saharinen MH. 1999. Cattle and pig manure and feat cocomposting in a drum composting system: Microbiological and chemical parameters. COMPOST SCIENCE & UTILIZATION 7: (3) 54-65. Most research looks at the chemical composition of compost, effects of compost on soil, etc. > > >================================================================ > >Robert A. LaBudde, PhD, PAS, Dpl. ACAFS e-mail: ral@lcfltd.com > >Least Cost Formulations, Ltd. URL: http://lcfltd.com/ > >824 Timberlake Drive Tel: 757-467-0954 > >Virginia Beach, VA 23464-3239 Fax: 757-467-2947 > >"Vere scire est per causae scire" > >================================================================ > >*************************************************************************** > >* The foodsafe mailing list facilitates information exchange. * > >* The sender is responsible for content. * > >* To remove yourself from this list, send email to majordomo@nal.usda.gov * > >* with the message text: unsubscribe foodsafe * > >* Foodsafe archives are available at: * > >* http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodborne/foodborn.htm * > >*************************************************************************** > > > >craig k harris > >department of sociology > >michigan state university > >429b berkey hall > >east lansing michigan 48824-1111 > >tel: 517-355-5048 > >fax: 517-432-2856 of my long rambling. . . Suffice it to say that soil is not a sterile environment. One is _much_ more likely to get food-related illnesses from contaminated meat products than from produce grown on organically amended soils. Of the 76 million estimated food-related illnesses last year only a small fraction came from produce (Mead et al., Emerging Infectious Diseases 5:607-625). Most pathogenic enterobacteria find soil a harsh and unforgiving growth medium. Not the 37 degree C nutrient-rich environment in which they thrive. -- Russ Bulluck Ph.D. Candidate Department of Plant Pathology North Carolina State University PO Box 7616 Raleigh, NC 27695-7616 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantpath/Personnel/Students/webpage.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The soil population is so complex that it manifestly cannot be dealt with as a whole with any detail by any one person, and at the same time it plays so important a part in the soil economy that it must be studied. --Sir E. John Russell The Micro-organisms of the Soil, 1923 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 11:25:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25120 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23854 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:46:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23733 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from REXD.uark.edu ([130.184.56.55]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) with SMTP id JAA06202; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:44:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910251444.JAA06202@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Rex Dufour" To: Peter Warren Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:40:51 -0500 Subject: Re: organic sweet corn pest management Reply-to: rexd@ncatark.uark.edu CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu References: <199910242210.SAA13105@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19991025092128.008837a0@mail.vt.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3413 Good Morning Peter... Please check out the ATTRA website (location is in my signature), particularly the location: http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/sweetcorn.html There might be some useful information for you there. Let me know if it's useful...Thanks. Rex Dufour > Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:21:28 -0400 > From: Peter Warren > Subject: organic sweet corn pest management > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Hello All, > > I am looking for some ideas for managing pests of sweet > corn in Virginia in an organic way. Any information will > be appreciated. Thanks for your time. > > > Peter L. Warren > Extension Agent, Integrated Pest Management > Virginia Cooperative Extension > P.O. Box 30, Orange, VA 22960 > phone: (540)672-1361 fax: (540)672-0234 > email: plwarren@vt.edu web: > http://www.ext.vt.edu/offices/orange > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the > command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest > format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To > Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the > command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail =================================================== Rex Dufour Associate Project Manager Approriate Technology Transfer for Rural Areas (ATTRA) P.O. Box 3657 Fayetteville, AR 72702 (501) 442-9824 rexd@ncatark.uark.edu, http://www.attra.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 11:25:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25127 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25730 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:53:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25714 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10984 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <38147C62.DAC70A6@uoguelph.ca> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:50:58 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Time and the Benefit of BT Corn References: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFB1@vela.phibred.com> <6253.991023@acnet.net> <3811CBF2.41664EB5@tmn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3414 Tom A. As usual, an insightful observation. tabeles wrote: > There is one dimension that is not being fully considered here, the element of > time. We are very used to flipping a light switch and curing the dark, taking a > pill and curing the headache and investing in a stock and seeing it gain over > night. I am reminded of the Ralph Lentz farm which I recently had the great good fortune to visit while speaking in Minnesota. What a goldmine. The context was livestock:watercourse interactions (one of my research areas). Ralph had fenced off one-third of his pasture stream 30 years ago (as recommended by his natural resource people of the day, and is still being recommended and even imposed by threat today in Ontario and elsewhere). He managed the rest with rotational grazing. Of the latter, he fenced off a portion and set up exclusionary fencing 2 years ago, while continuing rotational grazing on the remainder. Now, which of the three sections of the stream (30 years exclusion; 28 years rotational grazing followed by 2 years exclusion; rotational grazing for 30 years) would you expect to show the healthiest riparian zone (by scientifically measured criteria)? If you voted for the first one, you'd be dead wrong. What happened was that excluding both large ungulates and fire (natural vegetation forming factors in Minnesota and in much of the Great Lakes Basin) produced what Lentz called an "unnatural succession" - a fully treed riparian zone. The trees were so tall and vigorous that they fully shaded the ground, leaving almost no herbaceous vegetation to protect the streambank. As a result, the streambank had caved (and was caving) in, trees were falling in and accumulating in logjams downstreams, and the watercourse was wide, shallow, and slow. Measurements of biodiversity by Fish and Wildlife and U of Minn personnel clearly showed the inadvisability of this strategy - which is still being forced on farmers even to this day. Conversely, the 30 year rotational section boasted a stream that was narrow, deep, and fast flowing with fully vegetated stream edges - because he controlled grazing. The key is to regulate grazing pressure, which is not that hard in this region because stock typically prefer upland over riparian vegetation and only go down to graze near the water when the upland is depleted (this is the opposite of arid zone experience, but remember, we are in a humid temperate zone where water is nonlimiting most of the time). But getting back to Abeles point, the 2 year exclusion zone looked great, with heavily vegetated banks and lovely young saplings - over 10' high in just two years. A snapshot of just this section would have clearly reinforced the current vogue for exclusionary fencing, but just downstream is the evidence of what time - 30 years - does to reverse and indeed override the short term benefit. I have no doubt that if GE crop and microbe releases are allowed to continue, we will see a similar pattern - short term "benefit" (such as it is, although even this is not clearly evident) followed by longer term problems that are clearly anticipatable with today's knowledge. But like the ill-informed (but not ill-intentioned) conservation staffers pushing exclusionary fencing today, we refuse to "see" the future until it stares us in the face. Unnatural succession - a worthy analogy for contemporary GE technology. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From hhamilton@centerss.org Mon Oct 25 11:26:12 1999 Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25138 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA22448; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:26:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , "sanet" Subject: RE: organic and extension people and university types Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:12:38 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3415 Lawrence, your comments that only organic is important, "not just sustainable," bother me. 1) Not all farmers can be organic--some commodities in some region just don't have the techniques worked out yet. 2) Some organic methods are sometimes worse, in my opinion, than non-organic methods--cultivating corn on a hillside compated to no-till. 3) Organic standards say little about scale--you can have "industrial" scale organic production, leaving all the social criteria of sustainability unsatisfied. I hope we can move closer to a goal of sustainability that includes democratic access, widespread household income, social capital, etc.. Some of my colleagues in extension are at least as wise about these issues as my colleagues in NGOs or on farms. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 12:04:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25690 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:04:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13510 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:27:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13450 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:27:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA22448; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:26:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." , "sanet" Subject: RE: organic and extension people and university types Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:12:38 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3416 Lawrence, your comments that only organic is important, "not just sustainable," bother me. 1) Not all farmers can be organic--some commodities in some region just don't have the techniques worked out yet. 2) Some organic methods are sometimes worse, in my opinion, than non-organic methods--cultivating corn on a hillside compated to no-till. 3) Organic standards say little about scale--you can have "industrial" scale organic production, leaving all the social criteria of sustainability unsatisfied. I hope we can move closer to a goal of sustainability that includes democratic access, widespread household income, social capital, etc.. Some of my colleagues in extension are at least as wise about these issues as my colleagues in NGOs or on farms. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 12:17:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25955 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19722 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:40:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from crow.a001.sprintmail.com (crow.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.7]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19701 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:40:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP247.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.9]) by crow.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA18330; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38147AAB.D1B193E0@sprintmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:43:39 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Douglas Hinds CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: Time and the "Benefit" of BT Corn References: <381354AD.D494AC7@sprintmail.com> <6670.991024@acnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3417 Greetings Douglas, You wrote: > Does anyone else believe as I do, that GMO's > are simply a more obvious (and probably more dangerous, due to their > potential for extended proliferation), manifestation of the same > mentality that brought us grafted trees - which have been widely > accepted even within the inner circles of organic farming. To me, this > is discouraging, which is why I will continue to sound out this group > on the issue now and then. Of course, GMOs are the same mentality. This mentality has been operating since the beginning of agriculture. (Keep in mind that any type of cultivation is unnatural.) We started out just selecting individual plants for their properties, but that wasn't good enough. Then we had to start cross pollinating for characteristics. (grafting is just a mutation of this.) This led us to hybrids and then to GMOs. All of this is a manipulation of nature, so there are no sacred cows, such as heirloom varieties or standard fruit trees. The goal initially, with selection, cross pollination and grafting was to bend the plants to our needs- production, flavor and nutrition. The goal of hybrids was to do all this AND own a variety which didn't breed true- to make growers dependent on seed companies. The same is true of GMOs. Sidebar: Does anyone else remember way back when? Hybrids were touted as the wonderkids that would end world hunger. This is the "rationale" behind GMOs. But we all know that it's an attempt to sell more chemicals and "own" the varieties. Back to goals- It is the goal of agriculture (not agribusiness) to produce the most food with the highest nutritional value with the least inputs and to be able to do this indefinitely (sustainably?). And I think you are right about insisting that we look at goals. Most farming today has as its goal the economics. And pressure continues to build from development, land values upping taxes and the rest. Our goal should be to keep ourselves well fed (all of us) and nurture the soil and the farmers to this end. The rest is contrived. > > > The same invasive, out of context, self serving, myopic ball of > pretexts; that justify actions which damage the integrity of other > (and to my mind superior) organisms, producing (of course) an inferior > human food supply system, as a disappointing, melodramatic result. > We do have an inferior food supply- inferior in feeding all and inferior in nutrition. Our myopia is the short sightedness of our institutions which are interested in profits today and how we can manipulate our resources to subjugate and plunder others. (Remember the concept of Food As a Weapon?"). What do the rest of you think? Are our goals in line and how we try to attain them out of line, or is it the other way around? Or are both wrong? Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 12:59:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26835 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09406 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:13:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09397 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FK60006S21ZYZ@mta3.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 07:09:48 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Possible insecticide poisoning/Peru To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3418 Howdy, all-- I'm watching this story; TTMI some of you. peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ POISONING FATALITIES, SCHOOLCHILDREN - PERU ******************************************* A ProMED post Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 From: Chan Yow Cheong ProMED Regional Moderator for Asia Source: BBC News, 23 Oct 1999 The Peruvian Government has set up a special commission to deal with the after effects of a poisoning tragedy which took place in an Andean village on Friday. Twenty-four children - aged between three and 14 - died after eating their midday school meal of bread and milk. The commission, which includes two government ministers, police and doctors, is travelling to the region around the historic city of Cuzco in southeastern Peru to give support to the bereaved families and to help with investigations. Most of the children began to feel ill while they were on their way home, some collapsed in the street, others made it as far as the doorway of their parents' homes. A doctor at the hospital in Cuzco said that of another 20 survivors currently being treated only two were still in a critical condition. He also said that the children's symptoms and the way they responded to treatment suggested that they had been poisoned by an insecticide which attacked the central nervous system. The bread and milk were supplied by a state run development fund which gives such meals to poor children in schools throughout Peru. Peruvian police say it is the worst tragedy involving children that they country has seen for years, but it is still not clear how it happened. Local officials say they believe the government-supplied milk that was given to the children may have been fumigated with insecticide. That theory is backed up by a doctor at the hospital in Cuzco. He says the children currently being treated do appear to have consumed chemicals used by local farmers. He said it appeared likely that the powdered milk may have been prepared in pot that had earlier been used to mix insecticide for fumigating crops. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 13:39:42 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27576 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05250 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:05:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05201 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:08:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.185] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id ADBB13600C0; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:04:59 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:02:59 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3419 There's a lively food fight developping in Europe after an EU veterinary report revealed that pig and poultry producers in France have been routinely including human sewage sludge in their feed. The same practice, much less widespread, has been occurring with cattle. Sorta undermines their stand regarding hormones, doesn't it? Please do not take that to mean that I endorse hormones in mean, or even oppose the EU ban thereon. It just kinda blows their food "purity" argument right out of the water, especially coming on the heels of Belgian contamination scandals and the emerging knowledge of widespread black market hormone use in French, Belgian, and Dutch livestock operations. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 25 14:01:09 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28027 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16410 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:26:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16320 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id BAA00839; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:12:12 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id BAA12106; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:36:58 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910251736.BAA12106@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 26 Oct 99 00:12:28 Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn To: WILSONDO@phibred.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3420 >I tend to view it as any other new cultivar. But I GMO's in general been >evaluated pretty exhaustively from the perspective of safety. You view presumably proceeds from the position that genetic engineering is basically the same as conventional breeding, the same view I've heard from other pro-GE people. I really wonder how they justify to themselves this view, given that you can never conventionally breed a horse with a pig, or a pig with a fish, or a corn with a bacterium. Both the FDA and the EPA ruled that since GE-corn (and presumably GE-soya too, but the documents I have pertain to GE-corn) is subtantially equivalent to its conventional counterpart, there is no need for thorough testing. GMO's have, in fact, avoided exhaustive testing through the "substantial equivalence" shortcut. >Of course the hysteria is a problem. But the problem, at it's root, results >from peoples misplaced fears IMO. But you are right about this being a You can't say for sure its misplaced because there is no scientific consensus on the safety issue. Industry said the same thing about nukes, pesticides, CFCs, etc. >ugly in the customers field. I don't think anybody thought (at least in the >production departments) that people would care if we accidentally got a >little of the GMO pollen onto the non-GMO varieties! Well, if Pioneer didn't think about these things, I would imagine there are still other problems they probably didn't think about too! >fieldman might be shunned though!). I believe that if you want >isolation from someone elses genetics, then you have to arrange it. >If you want to isolate your organic corn field 660 feet from GMO >varieties, you have to deal with, and possibly pay the surrounding >growers to not grow GMO corn. If the wind blows hard during flowering, >and you get a percent or two GMO contamination anyway, then it is your >problem. This is not a new issue, and I believe there is legal >precedent for all this. I will look into it. I can why Pioneer would adopt this legal position, because it means Pioneer won't be liable for all the genetic contamination. But if non-GMO farmers lose income because their crop is genetically contaminated with GMOs, I don't think the *source* of contamination can dodge responsibility and escape liability. Howerver, this is something your legal system would have to work out. >> when Pioneer has done no research which has been published on >> peer-reviewed journals concerning the safety of Bt corn for >> animal or human consumption? > >Are you sure about that? Pioneer scientists publish in peer-reviewed >journals quite often. But the main concern is meeting regulatory >requirements. I meant feeding tests. I am confident enough to say Pioneer hasn't done so, because I've really been looking and asking around for feeding test studies, and I've so far located only 3 that have been published: Monsanto (<1997, rats), Novartis (1998, broiler chicken) and Pusztai (1999, rats). If Pioneer has done one, I'll gladly correct my statement and cite Pioneer's study. I hope you can post the results here. I'm starting to repeat myself. I think I'll rest my case. Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 15:11:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29526 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27265 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:37:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27202 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:37:37 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:35:51 -0500 X-ROUTED: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:35:50 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.73] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 0d432b3c ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:35:44 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991025132330.008cdda0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:23:30 -0500 To: Subject: BT Corn Responsibility Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3421 Dale said: (large snip) If you want to >isolate your organic corn field 660 feet from GMO varieties, you have to >deal with, and possibly pay the surrounding growers to not grow GMO corn. >If the wind blows hard during flowering, and you get a percent or two GMO >contamination anyway, then it is your problem. This is not a new issue, and >I believe there is legal precedent for all this. I will look into it. First I want to thank Dale, Roberto and Douglas and anybody else who has contributed to this thread. I for one have learned a lot about this issue. I hope Dale can respond to Roberto's biological concerns. This is getting to the meat of the issue, politics aside. What is the biological reality of BT corn and other crops? I do have one concern with the "cost externalization" proposed by Dale above with respect to the damage that GMO pollen has on other farmers crops. Let's do a quick thought experiment here. CORN SMUT WONDER DRUG DISCOVERED screams the headline of your local newspaper. The wonder drug is touted by the health community as a cure for Whatever Disease. I have an exclusive contract to sell corn smut to the drug company because I have a patent on my version of smut as a new wonder drug. Now, some questions. Do I have the right to grow my corn smut next to your corn field? (Here I assume that corn smut is a wind borne spore and remember, you cannot participate in the corn smut market because I have a patent on using smut to make the new wonder drug.) Would I not be liable for your losses if my corn smut is so agressive that it infects your whole crop and makes it unuseable for its intended purpose? To prevent me from totally trashing your crops, do you have to pay me the opportunity cost of not raising corn smut for my new life saving, smut derived wonder drug? I am not a lawyer but I find it hard to believe that this would be legal. It is obviously immoral but if it is legal it would sure be a nasty way to settle a score with your neighbor. Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Mon Oct 25 14:01:09 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28027 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16410 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:26:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16320 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id BAA00839; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:12:12 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id BAA12106; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:36:58 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910251736.BAA12106@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 26 Oct 99 00:12:28 Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn To: WILSONDO@phibred.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3422 >I tend to view it as any other new cultivar. But I GMO's in general been >evaluated pretty exhaustively from the perspective of safety. You view presumably proceeds from the position that genetic engineering is basically the same as conventional breeding, the same view I've heard from other pro-GE people. I really wonder how they justify to themselves this view, given that you can never conventionally breed a horse with a pig, or a pig with a fish, or a corn with a bacterium. Both the FDA and the EPA ruled that since GE-corn (and presumably GE-soya too, but the documents I have pertain to GE-corn) is subtantially equivalent to its conventional counterpart, there is no need for thorough testing. GMO's have, in fact, avoided exhaustive testing through the "substantial equivalence" shortcut. >Of course the hysteria is a problem. But the problem, at it's root, results >from peoples misplaced fears IMO. But you are right about this being a You can't say for sure its misplaced because there is no scientific consensus on the safety issue. Industry said the same thing about nukes, pesticides, CFCs, etc. >ugly in the customers field. I don't think anybody thought (at least in the >production departments) that people would care if we accidentally got a >little of the GMO pollen onto the non-GMO varieties! Well, if Pioneer didn't think about these things, I would imagine there are still other problems they probably didn't think about too! >fieldman might be shunned though!). I believe that if you want >isolation from someone elses genetics, then you have to arrange it. >If you want to isolate your organic corn field 660 feet from GMO >varieties, you have to deal with, and possibly pay the surrounding >growers to not grow GMO corn. If the wind blows hard during flowering, >and you get a percent or two GMO contamination anyway, then it is your >problem. This is not a new issue, and I believe there is legal >precedent for all this. I will look into it. I can why Pioneer would adopt this legal position, because it means Pioneer won't be liable for all the genetic contamination. But if non-GMO farmers lose income because their crop is genetically contaminated with GMOs, I don't think the *source* of contamination can dodge responsibility and escape liability. Howerver, this is something your legal system would have to work out. >> when Pioneer has done no research which has been published on >> peer-reviewed journals concerning the safety of Bt corn for >> animal or human consumption? > >Are you sure about that? Pioneer scientists publish in peer-reviewed >journals quite often. But the main concern is meeting regulatory >requirements. I meant feeding tests. I am confident enough to say Pioneer hasn't done so, because I've really been looking and asking around for feeding test studies, and I've so far located only 3 that have been published: Monsanto (<1997, rats), Novartis (1998, broiler chicken) and Pusztai (1999, rats). If Pioneer has done one, I'll gladly correct my statement and cite Pioneer's study. I hope you can post the results here. I'm starting to repeat myself. I think I'll rest my case. Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 15:33:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00168 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08732 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:58:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08719 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29150 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24130 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:56:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:56:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3423 On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Bluestem Associates wrote: > There's a lively food fight developping in Europe after an EU > veterinary report revealed that pig and poultry producers in France > have been routinely including human sewage sludge in their feed. The > same practice, much less widespread, has been occurring with cattle. > > Sorta undermines their stand regarding hormones, doesn't it? What would you expect from a country allowing its Secret Service to sink the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior (or one of their main ships, anyway, possibly with another name) as it lay at anchor in Australia, killing a photographer onboard. I think they got away with this without a slap on the wrist. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 15:35:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00232 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09096 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09092 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29206 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id OAA24146 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:58:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:58:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: UK grant to assist farmers converting to organic methods. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3424 From: Alan Gould Newsgroups: alt.permaculture Subject: organic grants Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:59:44 +0100 A government announcement on Radio4 this morning stated that an additional 10 millions has been allocated to grant assist farmers and growers who wish to convert to organic systems. This follows a long campaign by Soil Association, HDRA and others to redress a disgraceful lack of government support for organic growing. Every little helps, though 100m would have been more appropriate. -- Alan & Joan Gould, North Lincs. Life begins every morning. <><><> Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm http://metalab.unc.edu/ecolandtech/landcare.html /intergarden /permaculture /permaculture-online lflondon@mindspring.com london@metalab.unc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 16:59:31 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02235 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25563 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:17:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25480 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.01404558@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:15:27 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 25 Oct 99 16:15:24 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 25 Oct 99 16:15:15 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:15:10 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: free range eggs In-reply-to: <199910212210.SAA21151@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3425 Just thought I'd mention that an Earth Fare recently moved to this area (a chain similar to Whole Foods) and we went shopping there this weekend to check it out. The only eggs available said neither "free range" nor "organic," and they cost $2.38 a dozen. Anita in Georgia Edna wrote: > (snip) If I > had a larger flock, I might have problems, but my food co-op will buy > them at $2.00 and sell them for about $3.00. They sell certified organic > at closer to $4.00. > It can be a marketing challenge, but I'm convinced buyers need to > be aware of where their food comes from. I may be fortunate in knowing a > number of people who appreciate cruelty free and cage free and organic... > Regards, Edna > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 17:06:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02428 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09467 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:39:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA09366 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id PAA04062; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:37:38 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xmaa03142; Mon, 25 Oct 99 15:37:01 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:37:01 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFBA@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:36:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3426 This just came on our intra-net, thought you all might be interested. Dale ISU profs to discuss GMOs on Nightline tonight ISU professors John Obrycki (entomology), Neil Harl (economics) and Gary Munkvold (plant pathology) and will be part of an ABC Nightline broadcast on genetically modified organisms Monday, Oct. 25. The show, which will explore the issues surrounding GMO's, will air on WOI-TV following the late local news after the football game To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 17:07:05 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02444 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03353 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:28:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03345 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA26884; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:26:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Bluestem Associates" , Subject: RE: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:12:42 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3427 Bart, just because some US farmers milk 3,000 cows or feed tens of thousands of hogs in coastal swamps, does that mean all US farmers do those things? Of course not!!! There's an industrial hog and poultry industry in France, just like here. Guess who they copy? That doesn't mean that the French farmers protesting hormone beef are the same people with industrial operations. Please get your logic straight before you take pokes at one of the few groups successfully challenging the macdonaldization of the world's food. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Bluestem Associates Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 12:03 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock There's a lively food fight developping in Europe after an EU veterinary report revealed that pig and poultry producers in France have been routinely including human sewage sludge in their feed. The same practice, much less widespread, has been occurring with cattle. Sorta undermines their stand regarding hormones, doesn't it? Please do not take that to mean that I endorse hormones in mean, or even oppose the EU ban thereon. It just kinda blows their food "purity" argument right out of the water, especially coming on the heels of Belgian contamination scandals and the emerging knowledge of widespread black market hormone use in French, Belgian, and Dutch livestock operations. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 17:20:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02828 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12377 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:41:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12201 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:39:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Population Growth & Sustainability Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:39:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3428 Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for posting that piece. I've been looking for it again for 20 years. Dr. Bartlett also had an accompanying film with that article, in plain English that a third grader could understand. I was working at the time with the DOE on the 'energy crisis' and what EVERYONE seems to forget is the exponential factor --- which isn't rocket science. I see statistics about how great only 3% growth per annum is...but what people don't stop to think about is that 3%/year equates to a 23.3 year doubling rate! Lousy if you're talking about interest on your investment, but outrageous when you speak of population growth (or energy usage). Thank you again for keeping everything on your desk! Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ The best way to accelerate a Macintosh is at 9.8m/sec/sec. ___________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: mmiller@pcsia.com [mailto:mmiller@pcsia.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 1:10 PM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Population Growth & Sustainability A while back, there was a thread about the earth's population reaching 6,000,000,000 souls. One respondent said something that reminded me of a paper published back in the energy crisis days that seems to be relevant. It has to do with when we realize we that we have exceeded the carrying capacity of the system. This paper just surfaced on my desk again, mainly because I have no filing system for papers, ... mumble, mumble... So here is little excerpt from Am J. Phys, 46(9), Sept. 1978 pgs. 876-888 Forgotten fundamentals of the energy crisis Albert A. Bartlett, Dept of Physics, Uof Colorado, Boulder IV. Exponential Growth in a Finite Environment Bacteria grow by division so that 1 bacterium becomes 2, the 2 divide to give 4, the 4 divide to give 8,etc.. Consider a hypothetical strain of bacteria for which this division time is one minute. The number of bacteria grows exponentially with a doubling time of one minute. One bacterium is put in a bottle at 11 a.m. and it is observed that the bottle is full of bacteria by 12:00 noon. Here is a simple example of exponential growth in a finite environment. This is mathematically identical to the case of the exponentially growing consumption of our finite resources of fossil fuels. Keep this in mind as you ponder three questions about the bacteria: 1. When was the bottle half-full? Answer: 11:59 a.m.! 2. If you were an average bacterium in the bottle, at what time would you first realize that you were running out of spaced? Answer: There is no unique answer to this question, so let's ask, "At 11:55 a.m., when the bottle is only three percent filled(1/32) and is 97% open space (just yearning for development) would you preceive that there was a problem?" (snip time dated illustration) See below. 11:54 am 1/64 full 11:55 am 1/32 full 11:56 am 1/16 full 11:57 am 1/8 full 11:58 am 1/4 full 11:59 am 1/2 full 12:00 noon full Suppose that at 11:58 a.m. some far sighted bacteria realize that they are running out of space and consequently, with a great expenditure effort and funds, they launch a search for new bottles. (Snip time dated material) and at 11:59 a.m. they discover three new empty bottles. Great sighs of relief come from all the worried bacteria, because this magnificent discovery is three times the number of bottles that had hitherto been known. This discovery quadruples the total space resource known to the bacteria. Surely this will solve the problem so that the bacteria can be self-sufficient in space. 3. How long can the bacterial growth continue if the total space resources are quadrupled? Answer: Two more doubling times (minutes). See below. 11:58 am Bottle 1 is 1/4 full 11:59 am Bottle 1 is 1/2 full 12:00 noon Bottle 1 is full 12:01 pm Bottle 1 and 2 are both full 12:02 pm Bottles 1,2,3,4 are all full Well there it is. Sorry it is so long but it illustrates an imporatant point about our ability to preceive a problem with something in exponential growth and still have time to do something about it. After pondering this one maybe Prozac is more in order than coffee :>) Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 18:28:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04600 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:28:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05798 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:03:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (IDENT:root@saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05770 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.206 (mx3-108.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.251]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA19400; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:01:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3814D6E2.3E7D@smallfarms.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:17:06 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Holiday Feast Time Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3429 Pasture turkey for the table! Pumpkin pie from your pumpkins! Heirloom apples and fruit in baskets! Being with family and friends. Tell your customers and friends you have great food ready for their Holidays. Folks won't know where to find the best food available if you don't tell them. And do it in your own words. smallfarms.com, the small farmer marketing web site, is offering free, FREE!!! as they say on the internet, one year registrations to small farmers and ranchers. See http://www.smallfarms.com for more detailed information. Please remember that small farmers and ranchers do not need computers to register or use the site. (Those of you with computers, tell others about the offer and assist non-computerized farmer friends for convenience. A written Registration form is also available at the site for mailing or faxing to friends.) Feel free to forward this message and post it elsewhere. And let me know where you post it, please. glenn Buy from the Farmer http://www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 18:33:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04640 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11071 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:10:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from fw1.phibred.com (firewall-user@fw1.phibred.com [204.233.143.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA10851 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:10:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by fw1.phibred.com; id RAA09574; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:08:40 -0500 Received: from orion.phibred.com(170.54.241.13) by fw1.phibred.com via smap (V4.2) id xma009441; Mon, 25 Oct 99 17:08:35 -0500 Received: by orion.phibred.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:08:35 -0500 Message-ID: <8FEE1BDA0910D111BEB500805F1999C70219FFBC@vela.phibred.com> From: "Wilson, Dale" To: "'mmiller@pcsia.com'" , "'Roberto Verzola'" Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: BT Corn Responsibility Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:08:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3430 Mike and Roberto, I wrote: >> If the wind blows hard during flowering, and you get a >> percent or two GMO contamination anyway, then it is your >> problem. This is not a new issue, and I believe there >> is legal precedent for all this. I will look into it. Mike wrote (using hypothetical corn smut as an example) > Would I not be liable for your losses if my corn smut is > so agressive that it infects your whole crop and makes it > unuseable for its intended purpose? > To prevent me from totally trashing your crops, do you > have to pay me the opportunity cost of not raising corn > smut for my new life saving, smut derived wonder drug? > I am not a lawyer but I find it hard to believe that this > would be legal. Roberto wrote: > I can why Pioneer would adopt this legal position, because > it means Pioneer won't be liable for all the genetic > contamination. But if non-GMO farmers lose income because > their crop is genetically contaminated with GMOs, I don't > think the *source* of contamination can dodge responsibility > and escape liability. Howerver, this is something your legal > system would have to work out. This is not a new issue at all, and I think the legal precedents already exist. I called up the ASTA, and sure enough they have someone there who knows about this, but, they are not in right now. Nevertheless, I will describe what I have observed in the seed industry. When a seed company (or private individual) puts out a seed field of an out-crossing species, they ALWAYS arrange for isolation from other fields of the same crop. They may finesse it, or buy it, but it is managed by the party growing the seed. The old-time farmer breeders used to give free seed of their OP variety to their neighbors to create a buffer zone in order to keep their seed fields pure. Pioneer, despite using standard (or better) isolation distances, routinely throws away hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of seed that somehow got contaminated with foreign pollen from God-knows-where. We don't think twice about this. The idea of suing someone for contaminating our seed is..., well, I have never heard it mentioned. Producing corn for seed is analogous to producing specialty "organic" corn grain. I think the legal precedents were set 100 years ago and are not in dispute. I did a little searching of the legal resource websites, to no avail. I will be out of town for a few days, and will get back to you when I find out something firm. Dale To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 19:30:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05301 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA19521 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:06:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (IDENT:root@saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19459 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.206 (mx3-108.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.251]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24340; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:04:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3814E59A.5572@smallfarms.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:19:55 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: free range eggs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3431 Hey Anita and Edna, The price on Anita's eggs would be high for supermarket eggs in my area. Feed for the hens needs to be shipped over 2500 miles of ocean at very high cost. The other option for the suppliers is to ship the eggs in, which is done. The value to the consumer of free range and organic eggs is still in flux. Does cruelty free and free range add value to the shell, yoke and white? Does low stress management of livestock which I practice add value to lambs? I think it does. My unsolicited suggestion is to sell high, Edna. Your extra efforts, the art of farming, need to be covered in dollars and cents. glenn Buy from the Farmer http://www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 19:37:03 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05355 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA20839 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:08:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20730 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:08:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:11:21 -0500 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.192] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A2C426310132; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:07:48 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:05:52 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3432 On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:12:42 -0400, Hal Hamilton wrote: >operations. Please get your logic straight before you take pokes at one of >the few groups successfully challenging the macdonaldization of the world's It appears you didn't read my last paragraph. The hormone ban is governmental policy throughout the EU, and was not particularly spearheaded by the French, to say nothing of their farmers. The credibility of EU "food purity" policies suffers with incidents such as this, just as the US FDA's credibility suffers when for seven years they knowingly allow a leading baby food manufacturer to continue selling a completely synthetic substitute as 100% puree apple juice. French farmers dumping manure in front of the Assemblee Nationale in support of continued (expanded, even) subsidies is a different issue entirely. *Now,* I'll stir up the real hornet's nest, so don't anybody think I accidentally whacked it, somehow believing it was a pin~ata .... (-: I do not believe we have any hope of agricultural sustainability as long as one nickel of direct government subsidy still flows to either farmers or to agribusiness. Most indirect subsidies and preferential treatment will need to go, too. Three examples, amongst many possible. Sustainable vegetable production in the US will not really be possible so long as California growers retain access to subsidised irrigation water at a miniscule fraction of its market price, to say nothing of true cost. Sustainable cash crop production will not really be possible so long as farmers can over-produce and then run to a government Sugar Daddy for "emergency" aid to compensate for low prices. Nor can they continue to rely on "deficiency payments" (US), or similar regimes. Sustainable agriculture in general will not really be possible so long as corporate agribusiness continues to receive massive tax advantages, such as the ability to deduct interest paid on moneys used to gobble up an existing company, as opposed to moneys actually invested in new *productive* assets. The French farmers you so enthusiastically laud are in essence advocating a system of subsidies that would effectively relegate them to the status of exhibits in some kind of a social zoo, forever paid to produce mountains of butter, cheese, wine, meat and pastry wheat that cannot be sold, except to perpetually expanding government storehouses. Please tell me how such a system is any more sustainable than an agribusiness concentration fueled and maintained by corporate welfare and tax advantages. I, for one, am tired of the last 30 years' power struggle at the public trough. The French wonderfully describe such struggles as a "tiraillage de couverts" --- the grabbing of covers back and forth on a bed. It is obviously not working. It's long since time to put an end to all of it, and apply the money to something more productive. Fat chance, eh? I'm looking at the long-term agronomic needs of the land, and there is a lot of land farmed only because it opens the door to more subsidies. I also believe that centralised decision-making is innately un-sustainable. The Soviet experience clearly indicated not only the inherent weakness of (state) corporate concentration and centralisation, it also demonstrated the bankruptcy of the type of socialism designed to prevent success. I doubt that we in the west can effectively develop sustainable agricultural systems until we, too, have allowed / enabled the dismantling of not only our system of subsidised (private) corporate concentration and centralisation, but also of the western system of socialism, designed to prevent *failure.* Until we get those distortions out of the way, at both the corporate and the producer level, I suspect that much of what I and others try to do agronomically for sustainability will frequently remain a rear-guard action, too often a case of pissing into a strong wind. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 22:10:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07102 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15722 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:50:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15710 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.35.129.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.35.129]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12726; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3812A2FE.3CE1D04B@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:11:10 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Elazar CC: Rachael Pettus , "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: compost contents References: <99Oct23.083639cdt.26882@mint.cwb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3433 Once upon a time I was writing a column for a magazine sold to growers. I wanted to include something about the bad effect of Euc leaves, but that was not permitted. Then i the very next issue was a letter from a grower who said he had noticed that his plants grownnext to the Euc windbreak had not thrived at all, and he wondered if the Euc trees had anything to do with it. So that changed the editor's attitude, and I was permitted to write a reply explaining that yes, indeed, the Euc does not want anything else around/near it. That reader was very gladto get an answer. Another time I was given the chance for a weekly broadcast on org g. and one time I mentioned how bad the Euc leaves were, and apparently the many nurseries who sell Euc plants complained, and I suddenly was not on radio there any more. Pat Elazar wrote: > Rachael asked: > A question for soil biologists or home composting experts, here. I have > heard that certain types of trees, walnuts and ecalypts among them, are > allelopathic -- their roots secrete something that discourages other > plants from growing nearby. How do eucalyptus leaves behave in > compost? I have a cold compost pile that recently had a lot of > eucalyptus leaves added. Will they break down harmlessly and combine > with the other things in the pile (kitchen scraps, weed clippings, other > leaves etc) to make nice healthy compost to add to my garden, or will > they break down, but leave the compost an environment that will not > enourage veggie growth when I dig it in in the spring? > Thanks for any help and advice. > > Pat replies: > I noticed on my home farm where we had lots of old Eucalyptus groves that > nothing lived either under them or in them so I never tried using them in my > compost (we had lots of chicken manure, spoiled hay & unlimited sawdust). On the > other hand, the leaves did rot on the ground so they theoretically would rot in > a pile? > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Mon Oct 25 23:04:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07911 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25340 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:45:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25320 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.137]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA11485 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:44:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991025214221.007302a8@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:42:21 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: BT Corn Responsibility Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id WAA25327 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3434 mmiller wrote (thought experiment): >CORN SMUT WONDER DRUG DISCOVERED > >screams the headline of your local newspaper. The wonder drug is touted by >the health community as a cure for Whatever Disease. I have an exclusive >contract to sell corn smut to the drug company because I have a patent on >my version of smut as a new wonder drug. > >Now, some questions. > >Do I have the right to grow my corn smut next to your corn field? (Here I >assume that corn smut is a wind borne spore and remember, you cannot >participate in the corn smut market because I have a patent on using smut >to make the new wonder drug.) > >Would I not be liable for your losses if my corn smut is so agressive that >it infects your whole crop and makes it unuseable for its intended purpose? > >To prevent me from totally trashing your crops, do you have to pay me the >opportunity cost of not raising corn smut for my new life saving, smut >derived wonder drug? > > >I am not a lawyer but I find it hard to believe that this would be legal. >It is obviously immoral but if it is legal it would sure be a nasty way to >settle a score with your neighbor. Mike Miller > > Just to complicate the thought experiment. The Indians in central Mexico have been growing corn smut commercially for centuries. It is considered a gourmet delicacy (it is actually quite delicious) and is believed to have health benefits. It is called Huitlacoche. (weet lah kotchy). So for one things, Indian rights advocates would fight your patent on the grounds of prior art. Also, by the way, it isn't that easy to grow, there are a few tricks to it--unlikely to be a problem for neighbors under most circumstances. :-) Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 03:12:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10612 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 03:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA00879 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 02:41:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from roazhon.inra.fr (roazhon.inra.fr [192.93.140.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00859 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 02:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agronomie7 (agronomie7 [192.93.140.16]) by roazhon.inra.fr (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA26121 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:43:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991026083004.00cb73d4@roazhon.inra.fr> X-Sender: derwerf@roazhon.inra.fr X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) [F] Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:30:04 +0200 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Hayo van der Werf Subject: RE: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id CAA00863 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3435 A 23:05 25/10/99 +0100, vous avez crit : >On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:12:42 -0400, Hal Hamilton wrote: > >*Now,* I'll stir up the real hornet's nest, so don't anybody think I >accidentally whacked it, somehow believing it was a pin~ata .... (-: > > >The French farmers you so enthusiastically laud are in essence >advocating a system of subsidies that would effectively relegate them >to the status of exhibits in some kind of a social zoo, forever paid to >produce mountains of butter, cheese, wine, meat and pastry wheat that >cannot be sold, except to perpetually expanding government storehouses. > Cher Bart, Obviously you do not really know the facts. In the past the system of subsidies in the European Union was linked to production, and it caused overproduction of many products. Currently the move is toward payments not linked to production but to farmed area and environmental performance. The idea is that these subsidies will provide for functions other than the production of food and fibres, so for things such as improvement or maintenance of landscape quality and water quality, employment in rural zones, maintenance of family farms etc. You seem to think that the market forces should take care of every thing and subsidy is always bad. Well, that is a point of view, but don't twist the fact in trying to defend your point of view. Cordialement, Hayo van der Werf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hayo M.G. van der Werf Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique Unit Sol et Agronomie de Rennes-Quimper ENSAR - 65, rue de Saint Brieuc F 35042 Rennes FRANCE Tlphone +33 2 99 28 27 09 Fax +33 2 99 28 72 30 Adresse lectronique : Hayo.vanderWerf@roazhon.inra.fr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From london@metalab.unc.edu Tue Oct 26 02:05:01 1999 -0400 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10038 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 02:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA14656 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:32:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mayumi.iphil.net (rufino2.gw.iphil.net [203.176.0.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14580 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mayumi.iphil.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with UUCP id MAA25147; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:46:40 +0800 Received: (from uu1@localhost) by phil.gn.apc.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with UUCP id NAA15524; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:24:11 +0800 From: Roberto Verzola Message-Id: <199910260524.NAA15524@phil.gn.apc.org> Date: 26 Oct 99 12:17:14 Subject: RE: BT Corn Responsibility To: WILSONDO@phibred.com Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3436 >keep their seed fields pure. Pioneer, despite using standard (or better) >isolation distances, routinely throws away hundreds of thousands of dollars >worth of seed that somehow got contaminated with foreign pollen from >God-knows-where. I would love to know what that standard isolation distance is... You say you still get contamination despite it. Would you care to give an estimate in %? >We don't think twice about this. The idea of suing >someone for contaminating our seed is..., well, I have never heard it >mentioned. Producing corn for seed is analogous to producing specialty >"organic" corn grain. I think the legal precedents were set 100 years ago >and are not in dispute. Ok, I think I am beginning to understand. If you have corn variety x and your neighbor corn variety y, you might cross-pollinate each other's field and no one blames the other. I wonder though if this still holds if variety x is now a considered a contaminant and farmer y is consistently losing money due to contamination by x? Lawyers will get rich over this... Roberto To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 09:11:17 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13672 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11101 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:42:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA11074 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.28] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id fa451443 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:36:53 -0500 Message-ID: <001601bf1faf$48b93b60$1c9fc2d1@jvworstell> From: "Jim Worstell" To: "Bluestem Associates" , References: Subject: Re: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:40:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Info: Mail gateway to Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3437 Bart, Though I love nearly all of what you write, the French are achieving the goal of a landscape of viable family farms and viable rural communities much better than we are. Of course, those entranced by the rigorous free market religion of ag economics cannot question their basic assumptions. Since others on this list will likely expose once again those faulty assumptions, let me instead try to illuminate why some love the French approach. It seems to go like this. What would you like rural America to look like? What portion of the world looks most like that? Ergo, we should try to emulate the policies and approach of that part of the world. Now what's wrong with that? Three guesses, first two don't count. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Bluestem Associates To: Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 5:05 PM Subject: RE: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock > On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:12:42 -0400, Hal Hamilton wrote: > > >operations. Please get your logic straight before you take pokes at one of > >the few groups successfully challenging the macdonaldization of the world's > > It appears you didn't read my last paragraph. > > The hormone ban is governmental policy throughout the EU, and was not > particularly spearheaded by the French, to say nothing of their > farmers. The credibility of EU "food purity" policies suffers with > incidents such as this, just as the US FDA's credibility suffers when > for seven years they knowingly allow a leading baby food manufacturer > to continue selling a completely synthetic substitute as 100% puree > apple juice. French farmers dumping manure in front of the Assemblee > Nationale in support of continued (expanded, even) subsidies is a > different issue entirely. > > *Now,* I'll stir up the real hornet's nest, so don't anybody think I > accidentally whacked it, somehow believing it was a pin~ata .... (-: > > I do not believe we have any hope of agricultural sustainability as > long as one nickel of direct government subsidy still flows to either > farmers or to agribusiness. Most indirect subsidies and preferential > treatment will need to go, too. Three examples, amongst many possible. > > Sustainable vegetable production in the US will not really be possible > so long as California growers retain access to subsidised irrigation > water at a miniscule fraction of its market price, to say nothing of > true cost. > > Sustainable cash crop production will not really be possible so long as > farmers can over-produce and then run to a government Sugar Daddy for > "emergency" aid to compensate for low prices. Nor can they continue to > rely on "deficiency payments" (US), or similar regimes. > > Sustainable agriculture in general will not really be possible so long > as corporate agribusiness continues to receive massive tax advantages, > such as the ability to deduct interest paid on moneys used to gobble up > an existing company, as opposed to moneys actually invested in new > *productive* assets. > > The French farmers you so enthusiastically laud are in essence > advocating a system of subsidies that would effectively relegate them > to the status of exhibits in some kind of a social zoo, forever paid to > produce mountains of butter, cheese, wine, meat and pastry wheat that > cannot be sold, except to perpetually expanding government storehouses. > > > Please tell me how such a system is any more sustainable than an > agribusiness concentration fueled and maintained by corporate welfare > and tax advantages. > > I, for one, am tired of the last 30 years' power struggle at the public > trough. The French wonderfully describe such struggles as a "tiraillage > de couverts" --- the grabbing of covers back and forth on a bed. It is > obviously not working. It's long since time to put an end to all of it, > and apply the money to something more productive. > > Fat chance, eh? I'm looking at the long-term agronomic needs of the > land, and there is a lot of land farmed only because it opens the door > to more subsidies. I also believe that centralised decision-making is > innately un-sustainable. The Soviet experience clearly indicated not > only the inherent weakness of (state) corporate concentration and > centralisation, it also demonstrated the bankruptcy of the type of > socialism designed to prevent success. > > I doubt that we in the west can effectively develop sustainable > agricultural systems until we, too, have allowed / enabled the > dismantling of not only our system of subsidised (private) corporate > concentration and centralisation, but also of the western system of > socialism, designed to prevent *failure.* > > Until we get those distortions out of the way, at both the corporate > and the producer level, I suspect that much of what I and others try to > do agronomically for sustainability will frequently remain a rear-guard > action, too often a case of pissing into a strong wind. > > > Bart > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 09:17:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13726 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21288 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:58:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21269 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA02825; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:56:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Hayo van der Werf" , Subject: RE: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:40:45 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991026083004.00cb73d4@roazhon.inra.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3438 Merci, Hayo You wrote Bart: "You seem to think that the market forces should take care of every thing and subsidy is always bad. Well, that is a point of view, but don't twist the fact in trying to defend your point of view." I sympathize with Bart. The world of farm policy appears to be a bureaucratic and expensive way of subsidizing all the worst trends in agriculture. Even in France, the large wheat farmers around Paris still grab a large portion of subsidies and then dump their surpluses on the world market. Our beloved Congress just raised payment limitations and is handing out huge "disaster" payments to the largest operators. Farm policy appears to be so bad, why don't we just eliminate all government involvement and let the market go? Wouldn't sustainable farmers win the competitive battle because they know how to cut costs? I don't think so. Capitalism seems to have this inherent tendency toward centralization of power and money. Those who are in winning positions always bend government to their purposes, but government in a democratic (or pseudo-democratic) society always has the potential to restrain the powerful in the interests of public good. European governments have been better at this than our own government. Witness statistics for education, early childhood mortality, income distribution, poverty, etc.. . . . Similarly with farm policy. Since the early 1970s, the US government has been, with deficiency payments, using farmers to launder subsidies for grain corporations. Now our government is using the WTO to force the Europeans into a similar path. But thankfully, the Europeans are resisting. Mad cow disease, a product of industrialization, and ecoli outbreaks in Belguim, have raised awareness of the dangers of industrial food. Just like here, there's a growth of support for local high-quality food. Those farmers who produce the high quality food wouldn't be there, however, without subsidies. I hate to acknowledge it, but the Swiss and French Jura, where some of the best cheese in the world is made, would be depopulated without subsidies. Just plain fact, Bart. I wish it weren't so. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org Hal Hamilton wrote: Please get your logic straight before you take pokes at one of >the few groups successfully challenging the macdonaldization of the world's food. Bart wrote: > >*Now,* I'll stir up the real hornet's nest, so don't anybody think I >accidentally whacked it, somehow believing it was a pin~ata .... (-: > > >The French farmers you so enthusiastically laud are in essence >advocating a system of subsidies that would effectively relegate them >to the status of exhibits in some kind of a social zoo, forever paid to >produce mountains of butter, cheese, wine, meat and pastry wheat that >cannot be sold, except to perpetually expanding government storehouses. > Cher Bart, Obviously you do not really know the facts. In the past the system of subsidies in the European Union was linked to production, and it caused overproduction of many products. Currently the move is toward payments not linked to production but to farmed area and environmental performance. The idea is that these subsidies will provide for functions other than the production of food and fibres, so for things such as improvement or maintenance of landscape quality and water quality, employment in rural zones, maintenance of family farms etc. You seem to think that the market forces should take care of every thing and subsidy is always bad. Well, that is a point of view, but don't twist the fact in trying to defend your point of view. Cordialement, Hayo van der Werf ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hayo M.G. van der Werf Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique Unit Sol et Agronomie de Rennes-Quimper ENSAR - 65, rue de Saint Brieuc F 35042 Rennes FRANCE Tlphone +33 2 99 28 27 09 Fax +33 2 99 28 72 30 Adresse lectronique : Hayo.vanderWerf@roazhon.inra.fr ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 11:06:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16007 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27373 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:06:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27312 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTH2W4X>; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:05:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FDA ANNOUNCES PUBLIC MEETINGS ON BIOENGINEERED FOODS Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:04:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3439 SANet: Apologies if this has already been posted--I'm a little behind on my reading :( See http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/hhbioeng.html HHS NEWS U.S. Department of Health and Human Services P99-24 FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Judith Foulke: 202-205-4144 October 18, 1999 Broadcast Media: 301-827-3434 Consumer Inquiries: 888-SAFEFOOD FDA ANNOUNCES PUBLIC MEETINGS ON BIOENGINEERED FOODS The Food and Drug Administration today announced a new initiative to engage the public about foods made using bioengineering. This initiative will begin with a series of public meetings to be held in Chicago, Ill., Washington, D.C., and Oakland, Calif., this November and December. At the public meetings, the public will be informed about current FDA policy for assuring the safety of bioengineered foods. The public will be asked whether this policy should be modified and also to comment on appropriate means of providing information to the public about bioengineered products in the food supply. Under FDA policy developers of bioengineered foods are expected to consult with the agency before marketing such foods, to ensure that all safety and regulatory questions have been fully addressed. FDA*s policy also requires special labeling for a bioengineered food in certain circumstances. For example, a bioengineered food would need to be called by a different or modified name if its composition were significantly different from its conventionally grown counterpart, or if its nutritive value has been significantly altered. Special labeling would be required if consumers need to be informed about a safety issue, such as the possible presence of an allergen that would not normally be found in the conventionally-grown product. "FDA makes sure that our food supply is among the safest in the world," said Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala. "Although people have enthusiastically accepted new drugs made from biotechnology, some consumers have concerns about the use of this technology in foods, and we need to ask why those concerns exist and how we can address them." Modern bioengineering was first used to produce consumer products in the early 1980*s when FDA approved important new drugs to treat a range of diseases. In the 1990*s foods such as tomatoes, corn, and soybeans produced through bioengineering began to appear. To date, biotechnology firms have completed consultation with FDA on more than 40 food products, and a substantial portion of American cropland is planted with seeds produced using this technology. "FDA*s food regulatory system relies on the best science available to protect the public," said FDA Commissioner Jane E. Henney, M.D. "Our scientists are not aware of any reason to question the safety of currently marketed foods produced through bioengineering. Nevertheless, as a science- based agency, FDA will consider any valid scientific information that suggests the agency should reevaluate its process for overseeing the safety of these foods." The first public meeting will be held on November 18 in Chicago, Ill., followed by a second on November 30, in Washington, D.C., and a third on December 13, in Oakland, Calif. #### This is a mirror of the page at HTTP://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/NEW00695.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 11:24:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16418 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12555 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:38:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12530 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:41:08 -0500 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.186] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id ACA6CED5009C; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:37:26 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:35:38 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3440 A couple of quick comments, mainly to get a Subject line change on this thread ... On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:27:58 +0200, Hayo van der Werf wrote: >Obviously you do not really know the facts. In the past the system of >subsidies in the European Union was linked to production, and it caused >overproduction [snip]. Currently the move is ## toward ## payments not >linked to production but to farmed area and environmental performance. The >idea is that these subsidies will provide for functions other than the >production of food and fibres, so for things such as improvement or >maintenance of landscape quality and water quality, employment in rural >zones, maintenance of family farms etc. I wrote Hayo more extensively off-list. A move *towards* is a long way from getting there. I suspect most farmer are more interested in growing food than in becoming landscape architects. France, especially, has been pushed hard by other nations to move away from production subsidies. Many French farmers, especially the bigger ones, want to maintain the status quo. On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:40:27 -0500, Jim Worstell wrote: >What would you like rural America to look like? >What portion of the world looks most like that? >Ergo, we should try to emulate the policies and approach of that part of the >world [meaning France] The Dutch example may be more pertinent, as the Dutch seem to be far more market oriented than most other Europeans. The Dutch use of land is generally quite beautiful. Let us remember, however, the difference in size and population density between Europe and places like the Americas and Australia. No less, the long time the land has been cultivated. I once talked with a farmer in Germany who said his family had tilled that land since the 9th Century. Land care of necessity must be different under intensive regimes than under extensive ones such as those in the New World. My core belief, however, is that subsidies distort the agri-food economy to the degree that sustainability becomes vastly more elusive. On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:40:45 -0400, Hal Hamilton wrote: >there's a growth of support for local high-quality food. Those farmers who >produce the high quality food wouldn't be there, however, without subsidies. >I hate to acknowledge it, but the Swiss and French Jura, where some of the >best cheese in the world is made, would be depopulated without subsidies. If the demand for such local high quality food is *real*, it will be reflected in prices. If it is sustainable, subsidies will be unnecessary. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 11:29:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16559 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:29:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28049 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:03:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp5.jps.net (smtp5.jps.net [209.63.224.55]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27938 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [216.224.155.207] (216-224-141-87.stk.jps.net [216.224.141.87]) by smtp5.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA16244 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:01:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: fullcircle@mail.jps.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:08:14 -0800 To: Sanet post From: Marcie Rosenzweig Subject: Job announcement Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3441 >X-Sender: jandb@transbay.net >Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:47:20 -0700 >To: fullcircle@jps.net >From: Bill and Jenny Kaye-Blake >Subject: Home safe >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >Hey Marcie - > >I got a job announcement in the mail today, and I though I'd give you the >details. >Maybe you could post it on SANET? > >Good to see you - > >Bill > > > >************************** > >Agriculture/Natural Resources Adjunct Faculty > >Agriculture/Natural Resources Department > >Santa Rosa Junior College > >"Santa Rosa Junior College is establishing a pool of qualified instuctors >in the Agriculture/Natural Resources Department. Priority consideration >will be given to qualified applicants whose applications are received on or >before Monday, November 15, 1999. > >Personnel Department >Button Building >1501 Mendocino Avenue >Santa Rosa, CA 95401 >707/527-4688 phone >707/527-4967 fax >707/527-4707 Job line >www.santarosa.edu > >*************************** > Marcie A. Rosenzweig Full Circle Organic Farm To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 11:52:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16976 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04907 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:19:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04896 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:17:12 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D01953B35@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Webb, Kevin" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: FW: GM Christmas lights ?? Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:17:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3442 And yes, in case you were wondering, truth is indeed stranger than fiction... After the self-lighting Christmas tree will come: the GM rabbit, with genes from chickens allowing it to lay eggs at Easter (they are still searching for genes that will add the color); the dragon-fly/human cross that will consume tooth enamel and excrete shiny metallic discs (aka the Tooth Fairy); and the self-stuffing and self-cooking turkey. With apologies for such flippancy, Kevin Kevin Webb Food Circles Networking Project Department of Rural Sociology University of Missouri-Columbia 105 Sociology Columbia, MO 65211 (573) 882-3776 [573] 882=1473 (fax) webbk@missouri.edu -----Original Message----- From: MichaelP [mailto:papadop@PEAK.ORG] Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 7:55 PM Subject: GM christmas lights ?? BBC -- Monday, October 25, 1999 Published at 10:49 GMT 11:49 UK Sci/Tech No more ceremonial switch-ons? Frustrated fiddling with Christmas tree fairy lights could become a thing of the past as genetic engineers have proposed a tree which grows its own lights. The idea for glowing pine needles was dreamed up by five postgraduate students at the University of Hertfordshire, UK, as their entry in a biotechnology competition. It is a perfectly possible proposition, as genetic engineers elsewhere have already created glowing mice, silk and potatoes. Neurophysiology student Katy Presland, 29, said: "We're talking about a green luminescent Christmas tree that glows in the dark and produces a noticeable light during the day. "It is quite feasible. The only problem in reality is the cost," she added. "We calculate that the initial trees would cost about #200, which means going for the upper end of the market. But I'm sure a lot of people would love them, especially the Americans." The team detail a plan to modify a Douglas spruce with two genes to make it illuminate. These would taken from fluorescent jellyfish and fireflies. The first gene produces a substance called green fluorescent protein (GFP), while the second results in an enzyme called luciferase. The trees would be modified by infecting seedlings with a harmless bacterium carrying the genes. A chemical compound called luciferin is needed to activate luciferase, which in turn "switches on" GFP and makes it glow. In the case of the luminous Douglas spruce, the luciferin would be mixed into a special fertilizer sold with the tree. The genes for green fluorescence have been widely used by genetic engineers because they allow scientists to see at a glance whether an attempt to introduce a gene into an organism has been successful. Blue fluorescent proteins have also been discovered and, last month, a red fluorescent protein was found in a coral. This means that, in theory, the GM Christmas tree could grow its own multicoloured lights. ================================= *** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. *** <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The address for any administrative command like unsubscribe, subscribe or help is: GENTECH-REQUEST@gen.free.de The searchable WWW list archive is available at http://www.gene.ch/archives.html To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 12:44:08 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18193 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28933 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:05:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28879 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:03:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'Wilson, Dale'" , "'Roberto Verzola'" Cc: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:02:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3443 Corn is a grass Sorghum is a grass Bamboo is a grass Sugar Cane is a grass My lawn (well most of it, anyway) is a grass... I think the concern is with the unknowns of cross-species involvement. When you play with the basic genetic structure, the results are still quite unpredictable. Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ The best way to accelerate a Macintosh is at 9.8m/sec/sec. ___________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu [mailto:owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu]On Behalf Of Wilson, Dale Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 12:56 PM To: 'Roberto Verzola' Cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: Benefit of BT Corn Roberto, >> What you are implying is probably true for a few (currently >> theoretical) situations. > It doesn't look like a theoretical situation to me. The U.S. > is already hugely threatened with the genetic contamination > problem, which is why you haven't exported as much corn to > Europe for nearly two years now. It is a problem that has been elaborated in peoples minds. All you are saying is that transgenics are a problem because some people think they might be. The more fundamental issue is whether the problem is real or simply imaginary. What I want from you is a plausible biological argument, not a political pronouncement. . . . To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 12:46:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18233 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01694 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:08:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01586 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTH2YK4>; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:04:19 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andy Clark To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Cc: "Natl. Camp. for Sust. Ag. (E-mail)" Subject: NATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR SA Job Announcement: Organizer Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:04:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3444 NATIONAL CAMPAIGN FOR SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE JOB ANNOUNCEMENT: ORGANIZER -- IMMEDIATE OPENING The National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture is a diverse network of over 2000 organizations working collaboratively to shape national policies to foster a sustainable food and agriculture system -- one that is economically viable, environmentally sound, socially just, and humane. We are seeking to hire a full-time Organizer to work on a variety of policy advocacy activities. This is a newly created position. To Apply: Send cover letter, resume, short writing samples, and references to Amy Little, Executive Director, National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture, PO Box 396, Pine Bush, NY 12566 Responsibilities: Staff Issue Committees Coordinate with leaders who monitor relevant national policy developments Initiate grassroots action as needed Facilitate collaboration with organizations on relevant Farm Bill (2002) activities Produce materials such as action alerts, media advisories and fact sheets in collaboration with other groups and assist with other organizational communications Organize Issue-related meetings and assist with other meetings Do outreach to varied constituencies and initiate participation in Campaign activities Qualifications: Experience organizing collaborative efforts of diverse groups on policy advocacy Proven organizational and project management skills Strong written and verbal skills, experience writing media advisories Ability to coordinate a variety of activities Ability to recruit, motivate, and coordinate people of different backgrounds and interest communities Strong diplomatic skills Proficiency with word processing and email communications Ability to travel and work on weekends as needed for travel Knowledge and experience with agriculture and/or environmental policies a plus Knowledge and experience with fundraising a plus Commitment to promoting sustainable and socially just farm and food policies Ability to work independently and as a team member Minimum commitment through 2002 Farm Bill Location: Preferable location at our main office in Pine Bush, N.Y. Pine Bush is a rural community located 75 miles outside of the metropolitan NY area. Competitive Salary and Generous Benefits full time with flexible scheduling available. To Apply: Send cover letter, resume, short writing samples, and references to Amy Little, Executive Director, National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture, PO Box 396, Pine Bush, NY 12566 People of color are encouraged to apply. The National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture is an equal Opportunity Employer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Amy Little, Executive Director National Campaign for Sustainable Agriculture P.O. Box 396 Pine Bush, NY 12566 P: 914-744-8448; F: 914-74-8477 campaign@magiccarpet.com www.SustainableAgriculture.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 13:15:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18824 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:15:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18599 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:40:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18590 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA06232; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:38:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Bluestem Associates" , Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:22:02 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3445 Bart wrote: "My core belief, however, is that subsidies distort the agri-food economy to the degree that sustainability becomes vastly more elusive." Hal asks: Although you can demonstrate that subsidies provide incentives for decisions by producers that may be different from incentives provided solely by the market, what is your evidence that market incentives yield sustainability? My assumption is that market incentives lead to externalizing costs whenever possible. If I can produce more corn by dozing the fencerows, I'll do it, and let the birds nest somewhere else. Hal Hamilton wrote: >I hate to acknowledge it, but the Swiss and French Jura, where some of the >best cheese in the world is made, would be depopulated without subsidies. Bart wrote: If the demand for such local high quality food is *real*, it will be reflected in prices. If it is sustainable, subsidies will be unnecessary. Hal answers: I'm talking about Swiss Gruyere and French Compte. The demand is real. The prices are relatively high. Industry is pressuring the farmers to increase production to meet increasing demand. The farmer coops are resisting this pressure because their mental model of success is something like "adequacy" instead of "continual growth." Quite extraordinary, really. And that's why the Jura mountains are such a wonderful region for tourists, hikers, bicyclists, etc.. It's beautiful. But, unfortunately, the market return to the farmers, even with a premium product, does not support a middle class lifestyle with modest scale production. So there are subsidies for young farmers (something like $50,000 grant to get started or buy out the parents), subsidies for producing in the mountains, so the landscape is protected, and so forth. My rough estimate is that something like 30-40 percent of net farm income comes from subsidies. Is this wrong? Our society subsidizes education, highway construction, health care, military defense, rural development, recreation in parks, and so on. Why not farming in regions that would otherwise be depopulated? I wish it didn't appear to be necessary, and I agree that the contract should be clear--internalize costs, no dumping, protect biodiversity, water quality, etc.. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 13:23:39 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18956 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28606 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:56:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28575 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uoguelph.ca ([128.146.210.212]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09998 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3815EAA8.729E33B6@uoguelph.ca> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:53:44 -0500 From: "E. Ann Clark" Organization: University of Guelph X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: Re: cost of GE References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3446 Folks. Walker B. said: > I think the concern is with the unknowns of cross-species involvement. When > you play with the basic genetic structure, the results are still quite > unpredictable. I'd like to reinforce that point with something that I don't think has been well discussed as yet on SANET. Several have referenced the notion of horizontal gene transfer, which is a wholly normal thing for procaryotic creatures (do they still use that term? I may be out of date. I mean the single celled guys that do not have specialized tissues, as for reproduction). Bacteria and suchlike organisms routinely and normally exchange bits of DNA in their version of sex (e.g. conjugation, transformation etc.) to achieve genetic recombination. Nothing new or startling about that. But as has been mentioned at least a few times on SANET, new genes behave unpredictably in new genomes, particularly when accompanied by their little promoter buddy snips etc. (e.g. the example of the gene for herbicide resistance affecting a wholly unrelated trait - outcrossing - in Arabadopsis thaliana; the thesis that the cauliflower mosaic virus promoter genes for the snowdrop lectin gene - and not the lectin gene itself - may have caused the abnormalities that Pusztai saw in his rats at the Rowett). So, while the material coding for Bt, for example, may be horizontally transferred into the genome of a fungus (there is published evidence of transgene movement into Aspergillus niger (a common decomposer fungus) following incorporation of transgenic plant material into the soil), the "risk" of this event is not simply "what will the Bt genes/buddies do in the fungus genome". Rather, what *other* fungal genes might be affected by the Bt/promoter genes? Or in another fungus, bacteria, or protozoan organism that, in turn, receives the same genes by a second horizontal transfer or a third or..... And remember, the "effect" may be simply from the promoter buddy increasing the activity of *another* gene (not the transgene), like putting out more of compound X . Let's say that compound X is something which is normally expressed at subtoxic or sub-allergenic levels in the recipient organism but following gene transfer, could increase to toxic or allergenic proportions (this is a food safety speculation; I have no evidence of this). And keep in mind too, the *scale* of potential horizontal transfers when every cell of every plant in every hectare of 10s of millions of hectares, every year, contains the same Bt/buddy construct. Given the foregoing, which I believe is scientifically defensible and already documented in the refereed literature (unlike the food safety studies we hear so much about), on what conceivable basis can anyone, even the august Pioneer, presume to tell us that there is no risk? As stated by David Suzuki regarding claims of food safety testing in Canada ( he is a very well known molecular geneticist turned science communicator), such a contention could only come from someone who is "very stupid or lying". Or perhaps just nearsighted. To illustrate this point, I once used the example of a dairy producer who could walk out into a herd of 100 cows and even without ear tags, tell you everything you could possibly want to know (and usually a lot more) about each and every one. To those not of the dairy persuasion, they are just "cows", but a dairy producer can distinguish the animals in their own herd - based on markings, conformation, behavior, and other attributes - because they have the "eyes" to see. I would put it to you that at least part of the reason Dale and others are disinclined to accept even the potential of a risk from GE (such as that laid out above) is because their training/experience/colleagues have put blinkers or filters on their vision. Someone (Pasteur?) once said that "discovery comes to the prepared mind". By analogy, to a mind that is not ready - for whatever reason - to "see" GE risks, all of this discussion is much ado about nothing. Now, it is fair to say that the above evidence is only in a few papers, but why is that? Does the small number of papers reflect the uniqueness or unusualness of the problem, or rather, the perishingly small amounts of research funding for those seeking to explore these issues? On what basis can one conclude the former, as many industry proponents already have, without refereed publications showing that these phenomena (horizontal gene transfer and unpredictable side effects) do NOT occur? In the absence of such publications, such a conclusion is at best premature, and at worst, subjective, self-serving, and scientifically indefensible. Ann To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 17:35:00 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24589 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25780 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:31:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA25720 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.36] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id na452855 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:25:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000601bf1ff1$9b3feae0$249fc2d1@preferred-user> From: "Jim Worstell" To: "sanet" Subject: Re: extension & land grants (long) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:14:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 X-Info: Mail gateway to Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3447 What will change the tack of those huge public universities? Getting publicity decrying waste of taxpayer money while you are cultivating friends in the legislature. Community Farm Alliance and, more recently, Commodity Growers Cooperative in Kentucky has had great success in doing this. As more evidence, reread the thoughtful response of one Pacific Northwest administrator (also proof that at least one LGU guy is A-OK). "Thinking LGU's will do the "right thing", i.e., support your goals, because it is in the best interest of society or the environment most likely will result in more frustration than change. I have not found much principle centered leadership in LGU's, but I have seen lots of reactive behavior --- reactive to forces that can influence their resources and image." In other words most large universities will do just about anything to attract money. In private moments their top administrators admit it. Unless you've got lots of money, the only thing that will change their approach is to start getting publicity decrying waste of taxpayer money while you are cultivating friends in the legislature. The fact is that nearly every state spends hundreds of millions propping up their universities. Much of that is wasted. They have to give you any information requested on their finances and spending due to the Freedom of Information Act. You get the info on specific programs, write up an article about how wasteful this spending is, put it in your newsletter and call it the first in a series. Then sit back and wait for them to call, irate. When they do, be sure you are going to stick to your guns. I'd be glad to help with specifics off-line. Jim To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 18:05:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24963 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03199 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:31:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03115 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FK800KVYBO3HG@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:17:28 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Animal waste/sludge feeding To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3448 Howdy, all-- From ProMED, here are four items on the issue of EC nations (Germany, Holland, France, and Belgium) feeding animal waste and sewage sludge to animals. p m ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FECES AS ANIMAL FEEDS - EUROPE (03) *********************************** Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 From: Chan Yow Cheong ProMED Regional Moderator for Asia Source: BBC News, 22 Oct 1999 (edited) The European Commission has given France an ultimatum to come up with plans for tighter controls after it was revealed animals had been fed animal waste, and possibly human waste, in feedstuffs. The French authorities have 15 days to come up with suggestions to supervise rendering plants, which boil bones and other waste from slaughtered animals which is then sold on to animal feed makers. The commission launched its investigation in August after French media reported animal feed had been contaminated with dangerous pesticides, heavy metals and human waste. A report published by the investigating scientists on Friday revealed how they monitored controls on sewage sludge at rendering plants and studied the use of sludge collected from waste water disposal systems. The report says: "The mission identified deficiencies in the prohibition of certain substances in the production of feeding stuff. "Certain plants in the French rendering industry have used for years prohibited substances such as sludge from the biological treatment of the waste water or water from septic tanks from their own establishments or, possibly, from their suppliers." France argues since the waste is being heat treated, the resulting matter is safe and can no longer be considered sewage sludge. The Commission strongly disagrees. The report says: "It is still not fully clear if and how the French authorities controlled the segregation between human waste and industrial waste in the waste water disposal system and the subsequent recycling by the rendering plants." The report's findings come at an embarrassing time for the French Government, which has been threatened with legal action by the commission over its refusal to allow the sale of British beef on the grounds it may still constitute a health risk. Conservatives in the UK are now demanding a ban on the import of French meat. ******* [2] Date 24 Oct, 1999 From: Martin Hugh-Jones Source: Countryside, 24 Oct 1999 [edited] Three more European countries have been accused of adding sewage to animal feed - 24 hours after it was disclosed French farmers were guilty of the same practice. The use of sewage from animals and humans in feed is said to have taken place in Germany, Holland and Belgium. Pigs, cattle and poultry are thought to have been fed on it. Last night a food hygiene expert warned that the practice was "inherently dangerous" and could create a BSE-style health crisis. A European Union (EU) disclosure reported some French meat had been produced from animals and birds reared on processed sewage caused outrage among British farmers, already angered over the French government's refusal to lift its ban on British beef. It now appears that the practice has occurred elsewhere in the EU, including Germany, a country which has a record of being obstructive towards British beef. German authorities have denied the reports, but Dutch health officials have admitted finding human sewage being added during the manufacture of animal feed. It is apparently perfectly normal in Holland to add sludge from slaughterhouse water-purification systems to animal feed. At one plant, it was discovered company lavatories were connected to the water system.In Belgium, a regional farming report accused one waste-processing firm of using sludge to make feed. Ingredients are said to have included waste water from showers and lavatories as well as waste from abattoirs. The Belgian agriculture minister, Jaak Gabriels, stated the practice has ceased. The EU banned the use of effluent in animal feed in 1991, but sludge from slaughterhouses, including faeces, is still commonly added to the remains of animals for the manufacture of meat-and-bonemeal (MBM). This was banned in Britain in 1996, but is still widely used elsewhere in Europe. Professor Hugh Pennington, who conducted the inquiry into the _E. coli_ food poisoning outbreak which claimed 21 lives in Lanarkshire 3 years ago, said: "This could be a re-run of the BSE problem, which started because we were recycling dead beef into beef. "Clearly, the material these animals have been getting is potentially full of nasty bugs. It's a classic way of spreading disease by actually eating manure. Now that I know more about what's been going on, I wouldn't buy French." Martin Callanan, a Tory MEP, called on EU officials to investigate the use of animal feed in all member states. "The European Commission has insisted on high standards for our own producers. It's about time they insisted on the same standards for producers in other parts of the Continent." Conservative MPs (Minister of Parliment) want a ban on French meat,in accordance with British farmers* demands. But Tony Blair backed the stance of Nick Brown, the Agriculture Minister, who has refused to ban French meat imports. Archie Norman, the shadow minister for Europe, said Mr Brown was passing up a "golden and legitimate" opportunity to act. He said: "We're not a nation of wimps and the public expect decisive action." He called for an immediate precautionary ban on all French meat products. The European Commission said a questionnaire on the use of sewage sludge in animal feed had been urgently sent to all member states. A spokeswoman said France, Germany, Holland and Belgium had claimed the problem had been resolved. But she could not guarantee sludge was not still being used. The Commission has already sent a reminder to member countries that processing "sludge from sewage plants treating waste waters" is prohibited. ***** [3] Date: 24 Oct 1999 From: Martin Hugh-Jones Source: Sunday Times 24 Oct 1999 [edited] French farmers were unabashed yesterday about their standards of hygiene despite an EU order telling them to stop feeding their chicken and pigs slurry and human excrement. Serge Roumagnac, a farmer outside the village of Caumont, northwest of Toulouse, swept aside concerns and laughed at suggestions that traditional French farming methods were not superior to Britain's high-tech, highly regulated industry. Roumagnac acknowledged the reports last week of farm waste being used in the production of French chicken and pig feed. "Yes, these things go on, but not on the scale that you have had in Britain," he said. "You know we have always taken our produce more seriously and we have not allowed it to be industrialised in the way you have. Our slaughter methods may still be traditional in some cases, but we have not abused the food chain so the risks are not the same. "Our food is anchored in the soil. This is what brings us together in our stand against the beef with hormones from the United States or the risks of the mad cow from Great Britain." His views are not shared by Tim Yeo, the shadow agriculture minister, who will next week embark on a fact-finding mission to prove French standards of hygiene and food production are light years behind the UK. The Tories are determined to show France's ban on British beef is hypocritical and intend to collect photographic evidence from shops, farms and slaughterhouses that standards in France fall short of UK and EU standards. Archie Norman, shadow spokesman on Europe and chairman of the supermarket giant Asda, said last week's sewage scandal alone showed the diversity of standards. "If a British farmer had been discovered feeding animals with sewage- based products, 1,000 bureaucrats would have descended on him and the farm would have been closed instantly." British food campaigners claim a trip to any French butcher or abattoir will show up practices illegal in the UK. French beef is still displayed at markets with spinal tissue and brains, livestock carcasses are not inspected by qualified veterinarians before going to market, and pigs can still be fed on pig bone marrow. Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he described the practice of feeding chickens sewage as "horrible" - but stressed it was important to keep the law on Britain's side: "The European commission are doing the right thing. They have examined the issue and are insisting the French comply with the rules the rest of us comply with." ******* [4] Date: 25 Oct 1999 From: Martin Hugh-Jones Source: The Times, 25 Oct 1999 [edited] The British Government has failed to act on warnings from public health advisers that French meat should be banned after a damning European Union report. Independent scientists told government officials they should put in place "a major incident plan" as they did earlier this year over the dioxin scandal in Belgium. The experts have told senior officials there should be a tougher response to the "illegal and unsafe" practices uncovered by an EU veterinary report about the use of human and animal waste and of meat and bone-meal in French animal feed. Senior scientists were canvassed for their views by government officials on Saturday and made clear their concerns about the possible impact on public health. Max Johnston, Professor of Veterinary Public Health at the Royal Veterinary College, and a leading adviser to the European Commission on BSE, was insistent last night: "I think a major incident plan should be put in operation immediately, at least in the short term until France has proven these practices are no longer going on." Professor Johnston,continued, "The bottom line is if it is against the law of the land to do these things the food should come off the market immediately." He questioned why the Government was prepared to act quickly over the dioxin scare but not over the latest French scandal. He described the Government as "pretty lukewarm" and said he had been "extremely frustrated listening to Mr Brown". Tim Yeo, the Shadow Agriculture Minister, will today urge Mr Brown to make an emergency statement in the Commons about the crisis. Many scientists believe the contaminated food products could trigger a BSE-style crisis and increase the number of human cases of "mad cow" disease known as variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD). They are concerned by the use of meat and bone meal in animal feed, a practice banned in the United Kingdom -and linked directly to these brain diseases such as BSE and scrapie. They also fear the risk of new outbreaks of bacterial infections such as _E. coli_, _Salmonella_ spp. and _Campylobacter_ spp., but there is anxiety about increased resistance to antibiotics, the possibility of poisoning from cadmium and mercury and of incidents of tapeworm. The problem for the Government is that the latest food scandal from France has coincided with the controversy over British beef export and the two issues appear to have become blurred. The Conservatives believe the Government's lack of action over this latest French food scare is being driven by political tactics to get France to accept British beef exports. Yet Mr Yeo urged the Government to think again on its response. "They would be entirely justified in banning the import of French meat, particularly from chickens and pigs, because they are thought to be most at risk. There are legal grounds and scientific grounds and they should act now. The danger of not doing this is consumers will decide for themselves and we might have a full-scale trade war, which we do not want." Ministers are anxious to learn whether the EU is to start legal action against France for refusing to allow British exports. A sub-group of the scientific committee in Brussels today will review the French challenge over the safety of British beef. France could also face legal action from the Meat and Livestock Commission and the National Farmers' Union. Both organisations plan to meet lawyers this week to discuss the viability of such a move. The new scandal in France also throws into question its approach to BSE. The number of incidents there is small, about 21 to October this year. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 20:56:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27674 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00979 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:20:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from sscntex.ssc.msu.edu (ssc.msu.edu [35.8.70.66]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00966 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by SSCNTEX with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:19:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Harris, Craig" To: Bluestem Associates , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'Hal Hamilton'" Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:19:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3449 just for perspective, in recent years government payments have constituted between 40 and 50 percent of net farm income in the united states craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Hal Hamilton[SMTP:hhamilton@centerss.org] > Sent: Tuesday 26 October 1999 12:22 PM > To: Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) > > Bart wrote: > > "My core belief, however, is that subsidies distort the agri-food > economy to the degree that sustainability becomes vastly more elusive." > > Hal asks: Although you can demonstrate that subsidies provide incentives > for > decisions by producers that may be different from incentives provided > solely > by the market, what is your evidence that market incentives yield > sustainability? My assumption is that market incentives lead to > externalizing costs whenever possible. If I can produce more corn by > dozing > the fencerows, I'll do it, and let the birds nest somewhere else. > > Hal Hamilton wrote: > > >I hate to acknowledge it, but the Swiss and French Jura, where some of > the > >best cheese in the world is made, would be depopulated without subsidies. > > Bart wrote: If the demand for such local high quality food is *real*, it > will be > reflected in prices. If it is sustainable, subsidies will be > unnecessary. > > Hal answers: I'm talking about Swiss Gruyere and French Compte. The > demand > is real. The prices are relatively high. Industry is pressuring the > farmers to increase production to meet increasing demand. The farmer > coops > are resisting this pressure because their mental model of success is > something like "adequacy" instead of "continual growth." Quite > extraordinary, really. And that's why the Jura mountains are such a > wonderful region for tourists, hikers, bicyclists, etc.. It's beautiful. > But, unfortunately, the market return to the farmers, even with a premium > product, does not support a middle class lifestyle with modest scale > production. So there are subsidies for young farmers (something like > $50,000 grant to get started or buy out the parents), subsidies for > producing in the mountains, so the landscape is protected, and so forth. > My > rough estimate is that something like 30-40 percent of net farm income > comes > from subsidies. Is this wrong? Our society subsidizes education, highway > construction, health care, military defense, rural development, recreation > in parks, and so on. Why not farming in regions that would otherwise be > depopulated? I wish it didn't appear to be necessary, and I agree that > the > contract should be clear--internalize costs, no dumping, protect > biodiversity, water quality, etc.. > > Hal > > Hal Hamilton > Center for Sustainable Systems > 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA > Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 > hhamilton@centerss.org > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 22:03:30 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28440 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23205 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:37:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23193 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.245.38.32.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.245.38.32]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27123; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <381546DD.2E2EE7E4@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:14:53 -0700 From: Bargyla Rateaver X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: williamevans@home.com CC: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Milk as fungicide] References: <3813E51F.33B22EB0@home.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AC3CF6F80EE484563AC6D60A" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3450 --------------AC3CF6F80EE484563AC6D60A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I noticed one time, at a meeting to help Mexican farmers, that after the university ext speaker had said no remedy for virus, I spoke up and told them that the remedy was to spray milk. And sure enough, some time later I heard that the Mexicans were spraying milk for virus. So I am happy to hear it helps fungus too. William Evans wrote: > Better than benomyl...... > > """" Milk Makes Mold Retreat > > Offers organic farmers a chemical-free fungus > fighter, study says > By Nancy A. Melville > HealthSCOUT Reporter > SUNDAY, Oct. 24 > (HealthSCOUT) -- Got mold? > Get milk. ............ > > Researchers in Brazil say they've learned that > simply spraying organically grown vegetables > with milk can be more effective than the best > chemicals in destroying a powdery white > mildew known as Sphaerotheca fuliginea, > which appears on the leaves of cucumbers > and zucchini. > > The discovery, described in a recent issue of > New Scientist, came after researchers noticed > that byproducts from milk-processing factories > worked in killing the mildew on zucchini. """" > just an exceerpt; full text at....> > > http://www.healthscout.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Af?id=66007&ap=43 > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail --------------AC3CF6F80EE484563AC6D60A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I noticed one time, at a meeting to help Mexican farmers, that after the university ext speaker had said no remedy for virus, I spoke up and told them that the remedy was to spray milk. And sure enough, some time later I heard that the Mexicans were spraying milk for virus. So I am happy to hear it helps fungus too.

    William Evans wrote:

     Better than benomyl......

                  """"  Milk Makes Mold Retreat

                     Offers organic farmers a chemical-free fungus
                     fighter, study says
                     By Nancy A. Melville
                     HealthSCOUT Reporter
                     SUNDAY, Oct. 24
                     (HealthSCOUT) -- Got mold?
                     Get milk. ............

                     Researchers in Brazil say they've learned that
                     simply spraying organically grown vegetables
                     with milk can be more effective than the best
                     chemicals in destroying a powdery white
                     mildew known as Sphaerotheca fuliginea,
                     which appears on the leaves of cucumbers
                     and zucchini.

                     The discovery, described in a recent issue of
                     New Scientist, came after researchers noticed
                     that byproducts from milk-processing factories
                     worked in killing the mildew on zucchini. """"
    just an exceerpt; full text at....>
    > http://www.healthscout.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Af?id=66007&ap=43

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      --------------AC3CF6F80EE484563AC6D60A-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 22:56:13 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29120 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01397 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:30:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from billman.kuntrynet.com (billman.kuntrynet.com [207.40.85.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01287 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from GregandLeiGunthorp (tnt-15-10.kuntrynet.com [207.40.95.250]) by billman.kuntrynet.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11701; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:29:47 -0500 Message-ID: <001601bf2025$45007580$fa5f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" To: "Misha" , "SANET-mg" Subject: Re: Animal waste/sludge feeding Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:45:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3451 Does any of this stuff go on in the US? I think they are not supposed to feed ground up dead sheep anymore, or at least the sheep brains. I'd never heard of the sewage sludge. I guess all these things corporate world loves to hide is just another reason to internalise and control inputs. Best wishes, Greg Gunthorp Producer of Free range pork that has never been fed animal by-products To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Tue Oct 26 23:17:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29470 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16140 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:53:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16083 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:53:43 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:51:58 -0500 X-ROUTED: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:51:58 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.74] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 154d2d3c ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:51:46 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991026213929.008fac70@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:39:29 -0500 To: Subject: Animal waste/sludge feeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3452 >To: MMiller >From: mgs23@pacbell.net >Date: 26 Oct 99 17:32:58 -0600 >Subject: Animal waste/sludge feeding snip There is nothing new under the sun. Back in the '80 I managed a briquetting research lab and a couple of the materials we tested were steam dried cow and chicken manures. I learned from my customer that they were triple recycling these materials, cow manure to chickens, chicken manure to cows, 3X in order to recover all the nurtrients in the feed. If memory serves, they were already doing the recycling and just looking at other process equipment for the operation. I hope I am wrong on this but that was my understanding from the customer at the time. That knowledge sure took the joy out of eating fried chicken or a steak. Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 00:08:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00192 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24972 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24951 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29925 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:44:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id XAA25352 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:44:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:44:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: SANET-mg Subject: Re: Animal waste/sludge feeding In-Reply-To: <001601bf2025$45007580$fa5f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3453 On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > Does any of this stuff go on in the US? I think they are not supposed to > feed ground up dead sheep anymore, or at least the sheep brains. I'd never > heard of the sewage sludge. I guess all these things corporate world loves > to hide is just another reason to internalise and control inputs. I heard mention of feeding livestock poultry manure. I would imagine that would be limited to poultry and beef. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 00:24:25 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00369 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:24:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA05799 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:03:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.clipper.net (root@mail.eug.clipper.net [207.109.253.5]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05789 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clipper.net (ppp2.comm02.eug.clipper.net [216.116.34.2]) by mail.clipper.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA10394; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:59:24 -0700 Message-ID: <38167692.88D854CD@clipper.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:50:42 -0700 From: Bruce Elliott Reply-To: fish-world@clipper.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg & Lei Gunthorp CC: Misha , SANET-mg Subject: Re: Animal waste/sludge feeding References: <001601bf2025$45007580$fa5f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3454 I know of one company producing equipment that composts chicken manure for the purpose of killing the pathogens to feed to cattle. They are located in Texas and are affiliated with studies done at Texas A&M. What bothers me is the short time they claim (5 days to process). Bruce Elliott 541-895-5990 www.wormwigwam.com Greg & Lei Gunthorp wrote: > Does any of this stuff go on in the US? I think they are not supposed to > feed ground up dead sheep anymore, or at least the sheep brains. I'd never > heard of the sewage sludge. I guess all these things corporate world loves > to hide is just another reason to internalise and control inputs. > Best wishes, > Greg Gunthorp > Producer of Free range pork that has never been fed animal by-products > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 08:54:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05780 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19558 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:14:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from envsci.rutgers.edu (envsci.rutgers.edu [165.230.5.130]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19538 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bermuda-asy-9.rutgers.edu (bermuda-asy-9.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.137]) by envsci.rutgers.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA20525; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:09:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: envsci.rutgers.edu: bermuda-asy-9.rutgers.edu [128.6.248.137] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <38171569.229D@envsci.rutgers.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:08:25 -0700 From: Loren Muldowney Reply-To: loscott@envsci.rutgers.EDU Organization: Individual X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fish-world@clipper.net CC: sanet Subject: Re: Animal waste/sludge feeding References: <001601bf2025$45007580$fa5f28cf@GregandLeiGunthorp> <38167692.88D854CD@clipper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3455 Bruce Elliott wrote: > > I know of one company producing equipment that composts chicken manure for the > purpose of killing the pathogens to feed to cattle. They are located in Texas > and are affiliated with studies done at Texas A&M. What bothers me is the short > time they claim (5 days to process). Agreed that 5 days seems too short. But... What bothers me is the (unstated) assumption in this kind of study that the only thing which matters is pathogen reduction. This particular blend of science and policy makes a monstrous hybrid, of which many examples can be found. For example: POLICY/POLITICS: decides to only consider pathogen reduction SCIENCE: determines pathogen reduction under highly controlled conditions POLICY/POLITICS: allows the scientific result above to be extrapolated to situations far less defined than the actual research, and labels it "substantial equivalence" or some such rubbish. Calls it "objective" and "scientific" and attempts to bully and belittle anyone who objects to the policy decisions To properly analyze a modeled system, I must ascertain the level of certainty of the model. I view the small system described above as follows: Average level of certainty for policy/politics = 50% Average level of certainty for properly defined primary scientific research = 85% Level of certainty for system modeled above: (.5)(.85)(.5) = 21.25% That is, I might as well flip a coin to decide, if the actual decision is binary. Thus is my level of confidence derived for any system in which there is good reason to believe that many of the decisions are made for reasons other than pure science. Another brand of hogwash is the pretense that the groups broadly described as scientists, citizens, parents, neighbors are non overlapping. So naturally I am being a badly behaved scientist if I dare question the policy decisions made at any step along the way. Treading on sacred ground it appears. Many of us who do research in the general fields of environmental science and toxicology have independently arrived at the general personal conclusion that it is a good idea to derive our diets from rather low regions on the food chain, since it is clear that higher trophic level organisms carry higher burdens of all manner of unwelcome and unnecessary compounds and elements along with the macronutrients than does an equivalent nutrient source derived from a lower trophic level. A person who knows ruminant biology and does not know anything about agricultural policy and practice might reasonably assume that lamb and goat and beef are first level consumers. It is highly relevant to this individual's decision making process that the animal which would, under normal circumstances of it's natural history, be a strict vegetarian, has been made into a carnovore and a detritivore. This individual might very well make a different food choice if all the facts of the production regime were known and were made knowable by the retail consumer. The policy of "substantial equivalence" seems designed to ensure that nobody can access the information needed to make that kind of choice. Does anybody want to defend this strategy as "science" other than "propaganda (marketing) science?" LM To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 09:51:15 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06546 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:51:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00622 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:20:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00611 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA31971 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:19:29 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29878 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:20:31 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 27 Oct 99 15:12:58 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 27 Oct 99 15:12:43 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:12:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Animal waste/sludge feeding Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <3829D32E64@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3456 hello lawrence >I heard mention of feeding livestock poultry manure. I would imagine that >would be limited to poultry and beef. the economic calculation behind is the following: poultry digest about 15- 20% of the feedstuff's net energy. this allows a repeated refeeding of the dried manure up to 3 to 4 times before the foodstuff(??) is "sucked out". nice gain..... but on the other side: would you know, that a baker in europe is allowed to reuse up to 10% of unsold and milled old bread for his breaddough of the next day??? is that cheating buyers (who do not know) or a highly morale attitude to deal with our resource food ??? how much bread is thrown into the garbage can every day in the whole USA ?? anybody knows ?? due to hygienic reason i certainly prefer the 2. option !!! klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 09:52:22 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06567 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23176 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:09:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23168 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA31815 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:08:52 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29784 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:09:38 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 27 Oct 99 15:02:05 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 27 Oct 99 15:01:21 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:01:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <37F94F47C5@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3457 hello craig >just for perspective, in recent years government payments have constituted >between 40 and 50 percent of net farm income in the united states just another two perspectives: NEC built a new 64 mb computer chip plant in eastern germany (i would say, a profitable business with nice options for the future.) total costs 800 million deutsche mark. money paid by NEC: 90 millions. the rest of 710 millions were a gift from the german government, the state and city, where they built, subsidaries and free credits from the European Community. nothing of it has to be paid back! which means: you can own a business by 100%, if you pay 1/10 of the price and argue, that you are bringing jobs to eastern germany. job garanties was given for 2 years. 2. example: mercedes-benz, the third-largest employer in germany, gets paid ALL the money spent for research (a little more than 1 billion/a) by tax reductions (a hidden subsidary), which means: one of the most successful and largest companies in the whole world pays ABSOLUTELY no taxes. whenever there is a political discussion about that, mercedes immediately! announces (in the usual polite and slimy style), that they just had thought over to install the administration to the usa or any country with lower taxes. the funny thing is (is it really funny??), that all these countries meanwhile would be to willing to offer them the same tax reduction to ZERO, argumenting with new jobs and are competing among each other about the lowest taxes, which meanwhile had turned to the highest bidder... the government taxes workers, gives this money to companies, for that they create fulltime jobs to earn money they would not need, if taxes were not that high. a halfday job without these taxes would result in the same "buying value" (? engl. exp. unknown). some of the largest software companies here do most of their work (programming) in bangalore, pay their ridiculous taxes in india, but are using the high-tech infrastructure of germany for distribution and marketing (i almost forgot to mention, that they are constantly weaning about the high costs for transportation) so the 40 to 50 % are to be seen in this light and although this number seems real high (the average values for germany are in the range between 30-40 percent), there are quite a lot of higher rates. another calculation from the coal industry: it would be cheaper for the european union to send ALL their coal miners home for the rest of their life with twice the income of today than to pay the subsidaries (price difference between european coal and coal bought at world market prices). and another absurd point (lets also mention some crazy thing from agriculture): last year 5000 ha of fibre line were planted, because the subsidary alone was calculated as more profitable than any other market fruit. the subsidary was paid after the seeding according to the area planted. almost none of these fields were harvested, (in fact farmers never even considered a harvest) because prices for indian line fibre are so ridiculous low, that it would not have been worth to drive the tractor to the line field. a local extension specialist calculated an hourly wage of lower than 2 marks (if he included the special costs for machines, every farmer lost 40 marks per h by harvesting). you better take a job as the toilet cleaner in the worst resthouse in town.. at least there you do not have to pay and will loose for doing the cleaning. conclusion: subsidaries in general are not sustainable, that system of money distribution will crash sooner or later or result in extreme inflation rates. remember: 90% of the consumers are taxpayers, but neither farmers nor involved in food production, and do agree: subsidaries for agriculture are to high the downregulation needs worldwide agreements about time frames and rates and this can only be achieved by small steps and fair prices. we in europe do not want a "panem et circenses" (they always go together, and you cannot pick any and refuse the other) like in ancient rome any more. why time frames ? because the levels between incomes in industrial and poorly developed countries will have to assimilate without civil wars. from our view no nice outlook for our agriculture, but certainly more sustainable for the south. klaus To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". 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All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 10:02:23 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06915 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02845 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:25:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02820 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (mailcore0.oh.voyager.net [207.0.229.17]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24731 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (d32.as1.gnvl.oh.voyager.net [207.90.124.160]) by mailcore0.oh.voyager.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA82853 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001e01bf2081$4a0d0320$a07c5acf@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Schmitmeyer" To: "Sanet" Subject: sewage feeding Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:43:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3458 Hi Greg and all, I don't know of any of this going on in the states however one step removed from this is that some farmers apply it to the soil. So we know what toxic chemicals do to the food supply, one can only imagine what kind of chemicals are in the sewage let alone what kind of feed or food it would produce. God Bless, Paul To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 11:28:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08535 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11827 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:38:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11593 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:36:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'Peter Warren'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: organic sweet corn pest management Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:35:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3459 This past season I imported trichogramma (sp?) wasps and planted dill, sweet basil, and several other flowering herbs around my sweet corn field. The incidence of damage from borers was less than 20% that of previous years. Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ A bird in the hand is probably dead. ___________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Peter Warren [mailto:plwarren@vt.edu] Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 9:21 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: organic sweet corn pest management Hello All, I am looking for some ideas for managing pests of sweet corn in Virginia in an organic way. Any information will be appreciated. Thanks for your time. Peter L. Warren Extension Agent, Integrated Pest Management Virginia Cooperative Extension P.O. Box 30, Orange, VA 22960 phone: (540)672-1361 fax: (540)672-0234 email: plwarren@vt.edu web: http://www.ext.vt.edu/offices/orange To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 11:57:35 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09303 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:57:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27999 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:05:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27944 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:03:11 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DEAF@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'Harris, Craig'" , Bluestem Associates , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, "'Hal Hamilton'" , "':jvworstell@futura.net'" <:jvworstell@futura.net> Subject: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French farmers ) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:03:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3460 Hal, Craig, Bart, Jim... I think the defense of the need for, and legitimacy of, public "subsidies" to support sustainable agriculture, and the fact that instead we are subsidizing an unsustainable agriculture, have been made very well. So, I won't elaborate on these discussions, other than to state simply that "the market" will not ensure an ecologically sound or socially responsible agriculture - nor will it sustain the economic viability agriculture over the long run. Instead I want to focus on the source of the fallacy that the market is capable of meeting all of the needs of society and if something requires public funding, or a subsidy of any kind, that it's not sustainable. In general, the "market" will not provide the necessary incentives for a sustainable society. Markets reflect only the short-run self interests of individuals and sustainability is about the long run interests of humanity. Economists have mislead society -- probably because they are mislead themselves - into believing that the broad interests of society are served best through the pursuit of individual self interest. But, there is neither logical nor empirical support for this proposition. The belief that pursuit of self interests is lead to serve the public interest, as if by an "invisible hand," has its foundation in the writings of Adam Smith, in his book, An Inquiry into the Nature and Sources of the Wealth of Nations, published in 1776. Smith's "observations" of the world of 200+ years ago were only later translated in fundamental economic laws that were to hold for all times by economists where were searching for scientific rigor to justify their "discipline." However, none of the critical assumptions needed to transform "greed into good" hold today, because Smith's observations of 200 years ago do not describe the world of today. The necessary assumptions are atomistic competition (a large number of small sellers and buyers), perfect information (unbiased information, no misleading advertising), homogeneous products (no superficial differentiation), and freedom of entry and exit (no barriers, including large investments, preventing people from getting into or out of a business). Obviously, none of these assumptions describe the economy of today. The "invisible hand" has been mangled by the machinery of industrialization. Economists argue that everything is OK because the economy continues to produce large quantities of cheap, new stuff. That's the economic definition of "efficiency" - lots of new, cheap stuff. But, there is no evidence that resources are being efficiently allocated among alternative uses or that the long run needs of society are being met just because the economy is producing lots of new, cheap stuff. In addition, economics is fundamentally incapable of dealing with the needs of society as a whole. Economics assumes that society is nothing more than a collection of individuals - economics is incapable of addressing issues based on interpersonal comparisons of satisfaction. Families, communities, states, nations, humanity - these things have no meaning in economics apart from the summation of the individuals of which they are composed. The whole is simply the sum of the part and nothing more. Human relationships, the very essence of "society," have no meaning in economics. Economists see society primarily as a "constraint" to the pursuit of individual self-interests. Finally, economics doesn't really deal with the environment. Environmental issues are fundamentally ecological issues. I'm told that the first law of ecology is that "you can't do just one thing" -- that everything is interconnected, a part of the same whole. To economists, the environment is something "external," outside of the realm of the decision maker. The economic producer may extract raw materials from the environment, dump stuff into the environment, or public concern for the environment may constrain the decisions of the producer, but the environment is always something "outside." There is nothing in economics that deals with the humans as "a part of" the environment. Economics provides the optimum way to "use up resources" - there is nothing in economics that relates to sustaining the productivity of resources over the infinite long run. We cannot build a sustainable human society through pursuit of our short-run, individual self interests - through markets or contemporary economics. If we are to sustain humanity on earth, we must pursue a higher self interests - self interests which reflects our interdependence with other people and with our natural environment. We can pursue this higher self interest through our individual actions, but ultimately, we also must pursue it collectively as members of families, communities, nations, and society in general - yes, through government. The legitimate function of government is to allow us collectively to do those things that we cannot do individually. Government taxing and spending are the means by which we collectively buy those goods and services that, for one reason or another, it doesn't make sense for us to buy individually - the clearest examples being national defense, roads and bridges, and schools. There is a whole section of economics that deals with the legitimate role and function of "public goods and services," although this area of study is given little attention in most economic educational programs today. It is easier to bash government spending as a waste of "our hard earned money" than it is to explain to people that there are some things that we have to do together if they are to be done, and that we also have to pay for the things we buy together. Subsidies are the means by which we collectively pay "part of the cost" of things we deem to be in the pubic or societal good, in situations where there are private as well as public incentives for those things to be produced. In other words, without subsidies, some quantity might be produced, but not enough to meet the full needs of society, or an adequate quantity might be produced, but not by means consistent with the needs of society in general. So we as a society, through our various governments, provide a subsidies so that producers will produce the quantities needed by a means consistent with the greatest good for society as a whole. However, economists don't talk much about the legitimate role of subsidies - it's easier to bash subsidies as needless interference in the market. I am not defending government as it currently exists - in any community, state, or nation. There is undoubtedly much waste and misdirected use of tax payer dollars. The reasons are legion - not the least of which is the indefensible influence of corporations and powerful individuals of the public policy process. A predominance of public officials who lack any understanding of the legitimate role and function of a public sector is another. However, none of the current shortcomings of government negates the legitimacy of government in general in serving the public interest. The market will not provide the necessary incentives to sustain human live on earth over the long run. This will require legitimate and effective collective action on the part of society as a whole - through some form of government involvement. First, we will need collective action to reshape the economy of short run self interest so that it meets our legitimate needs as individuals. Collectively, we must restore competition, provide unbiased information, eliminate superficial differentiation, provide for ease of entry and exit, and do the other things necessary for markets to function effectively. But even then, we must continue to do those things collectively that are necessary to meet the needs of families, communities, and nations as "wholes" - rather just try to meet the needs of collections of individuals. And we must collectively take responsibility for the stewardship of our natural and human resources so as to leave opportunities for future generations to meet their needs as well. The markets simply will not do those things. We will not have truly effective government until we learn to pursue a higher concept of self interest - self interest that reflects the value we receive from relationships and stewardship as well as the value of meeting our current individual needs and wants. But, we will never eliminate the need for government - the need to do things collectively for the good of the whole. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Harris, Craig [mailto:Craig.Harris@ssc.msu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 7:19 PM To: Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; 'Hal Hamilton' Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) just for perspective, in recent years government payments have constituted between 40 and 50 percent of net farm income in the united states craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Hal Hamilton[SMTP:hhamilton@centerss.org] > Sent: Tuesday 26 October 1999 12:22 PM > To: Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) > > Bart wrote: > > "My core belief, however, is that subsidies distort the agri-food > economy to the degree that sustainability becomes vastly more elusive." > > Hal asks: Although you can demonstrate that subsidies provide incentives > for > decisions by producers that may be different from incentives provided > solely > by the market, what is your evidence that market incentives yield > sustainability? My assumption is that market incentives lead to > externalizing costs whenever possible. If I can produce more corn by > dozing > the fencerows, I'll do it, and let the birds nest somewhere else. > > Hal Hamilton wrote: > > >I hate to acknowledge it, but the Swiss and French Jura, where some of > the > >best cheese in the world is made, would be depopulated without subsidies. > > Bart wrote: If the demand for such local high quality food is *real*, it > will be > reflected in prices. If it is sustainable, subsidies will be > unnecessary. > > Hal answers: I'm talking about Swiss Gruyere and French Compte. The > demand > is real. The prices are relatively high. Industry is pressuring the > farmers to increase production to meet increasing demand. The farmer > coops > are resisting this pressure because their mental model of success is > something like "adequacy" instead of "continual growth." Quite > extraordinary, really. And that's why the Jura mountains are such a > wonderful region for tourists, hikers, bicyclists, etc.. It's beautiful. > But, unfortunately, the market return to the farmers, even with a premium > product, does not support a middle class lifestyle with modest scale > production. So there are subsidies for young farmers (something like > $50,000 grant to get started or buy out the parents), subsidies for > producing in the mountains, so the landscape is protected, and so forth. > My To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 12:01:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09423 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10539 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:27:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10455 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:27:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.014208AD@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:24:58 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 27 Oct 99 11:24:55 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 27 Oct 99 11:24:50 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:24:44 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: US campaign finance reform In-reply-to: <199910261409.KAA28554@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3461 Bart wrote (among other things): >I doubt that we in the west can effectively develop sustainable >agricultural systems until we, too, have allowed / enabled the >dismantling of not only our system of subsidised (private) corporate >concentration and centralisation, but also of the western system of >socialism, designed to prevent *failure.* > Until we get those distortions out of the way, at both the corporate > and the producer level, I suspect that much of what I and others try to > do agronomically for sustainability will frequently remain a rear-guard > action, too often a case of pissing into a strong wind. I would like to suggest that the biggest political issue and agenda item on all of our plates should be the push for political finance reform which would do away with Political Action Committees and the other vehicles for Big Money to abscond with democracy. I'm not very sophistocated about this topic yet, and have no doubt that there are plenty of you out there who know much more than I, but it just seems to me that this is the only way any of us anywhere on the political spectrum have a chance of being heard and getting policy in place that represents our values and concerns rather than just those of rich and influential corporations. I think this is VERY related to sustainable ag and whatever other brilliant life and planet-saving ideas may be out there. The recent newsletter of the Center for Rural Affairs in Nebraska shows a poll recently conducted at the U of NE comparing peoples values ("preferences") as compared to their expectation of what they want to see in the future regarding rural America. The results show clearly that at least in Nebraska, both rural and urban people favor vibrant rural communies, smaller farms, smaller businesses, more variety of rural business, etc, yet their expectations show without fail that they don't see their preferences coming to pass. The article notes that in a truly representational democracy, the prefrences and expectations of its constituents should not be so large. (This may be available at the Center's website, http://www.cfra.org) I bring this up because it is becoming an increasing concern of mine, I haven't seen it address here before (at least not directly), and I know that this list reaches a lot of smart and active people. As far as I have seen, only one of the US presidential candidates so far has made this an item on his agenda. I would hope that people would wake up to its importance and do our best to get it on everybodies agenda. I never before believed in the validity of a "litmus test" political topic, but I'm starting to think that this one makes a valid case for such behavior. Perhaps my political animal is coming out of hibernation... Anita To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 12:32:45 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09955 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27209 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:55:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26993 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.01421128@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:53:47 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 27 Oct 99 11:53:44 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 27 Oct 99 11:53:34 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:53:32 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: UN Hunger Site In-reply-to: <199910262132.RAA04987@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3462 In the meantime while we continue to struggle to make this a just and sustainable world, you all might be interested in the following: ------------------------- The Hunger Site at the U.N. This is a really important Web site. All you do is click a button and somewhere in the world a hungry person gets a meal to eat at no cost to you. The food is paid for by corporate sponsors. All you do is go to the site and click. But, you're only allowed one click per day so spread the word to others. Visit the site, and pass the word. http://www.thehungersite.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 12:36:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10045 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24888 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:53:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24854 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18161; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:51:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: "Ikerd, John E." , "'Harris, Craig'" , "Bluestem Associates" , , <:jvworstell@futura.net> Subject: RE: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French farmers) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:48:48 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DEAF@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3463 John Ikerd made a delightful contribution to the conversation about subsidies, markets, and government. Don't you also think, John, that markets do some things extremely well, and that one role of democratic society is to place some boundaries around the market? Another way to think about it is that a role of govt. is to both prod and pull markets toward sufficient rewards for public goods and sufficient disincentives for externalizing costs. Either way, Bart was right to criticize the misuse of public funds in capitalist economies and the horrible dysfunctions of state run economies. Well functioning but constrained markets would seem to be a necessary precondition of sustainable agriculture or sustainable anything. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: Ikerd, John E. [mailto:IkerdJ@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 11:03 AM To: 'Harris, Craig'; Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; 'Hal Hamilton'; ':jvworstell@futura.net' Subject: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French farmers) Hal, Craig, Bart, Jim... I think the defense of the need for, and legitimacy of, public "subsidies" to support sustainable agriculture, and the fact that instead we are subsidizing an unsustainable agriculture, have been made very well. So, I won't elaborate on these discussions, other than to state simply that "the market" will not ensure an ecologically sound or socially responsible agriculture - nor will it sustain the economic viability agriculture over the long run. Instead I want to focus on the source of the fallacy that the market is capable of meeting all of the needs of society and if something requires public funding, or a subsidy of any kind, that it's not sustainable. In general, the "market" will not provide the necessary incentives for a sustainable society. Markets reflect only the short-run self interests of individuals and sustainability is about the long run interests of humanity. Economists have mislead society -- probably because they are mislead themselves - into believing that the broad interests of society are served best through the pursuit of individual self interest. But, there is neither logical nor empirical support for this proposition. The belief that pursuit of self interests is lead to serve the public interest, as if by an "invisible hand," has its foundation in the writings of Adam Smith, in his book, An Inquiry into the Nature and Sources of the Wealth of Nations, published in 1776. Smith's "observations" of the world of 200+ years ago were only later translated in fundamental economic laws that were to hold for all times by economists where were searching for scientific rigor to justify their "discipline." However, none of the critical assumptions needed to transform "greed into good" hold today, because Smith's observations of 200 years ago do not describe the world of today. The necessary assumptions are atomistic competition (a large number of small sellers and buyers), perfect information (unbiased information, no misleading advertising), homogeneous products (no superficial differentiation), and freedom of entry and exit (no barriers, including large investments, preventing people from getting into or out of a business). Obviously, none of these assumptions describe the economy of today. The "invisible hand" has been mangled by the machinery of industrialization. Economists argue that everything is OK because the economy continues to produce large quantities of cheap, new stuff. That's the economic definition of "efficiency" - lots of new, cheap stuff. But, there is no evidence that resources are being efficiently allocated among alternative uses or that the long run needs of society are being met just because the economy is producing lots of new, cheap stuff. In addition, economics is fundamentally incapable of dealing with the needs of society as a whole. Economics assumes that society is nothing more than a collection of individuals - economics is incapable of addressing issues based on interpersonal comparisons of satisfaction. Families, communities, states, nations, humanity - these things have no meaning in economics apart from the summation of the individuals of which they are composed. The whole is simply the sum of the part and nothing more. Human relationships, the very essence of "society," have no meaning in economics. Economists see society primarily as a "constraint" to the pursuit of individual self-interests. Finally, economics doesn't really deal with the environment. Environmental issues are fundamentally ecological issues. I'm told that the first law of ecology is that "you can't do just one thing" -- that everything is interconnected, a part of the same whole. To economists, the environment is something "external," outside of the realm of the decision maker. The economic producer may extract raw materials from the environment, dump stuff into the environment, or public concern for the environment may constrain the decisions of the producer, but the environment is always something "outside." There is nothing in economics that deals with the humans as "a part of" the environment. Economics provides the optimum way to "use up resources" - there is nothing in economics that relates to sustaining the productivity of resources over the infinite long run. We cannot build a sustainable human society through pursuit of our short-run, individual self interests - through markets or contemporary economics. If we are to sustain humanity on earth, we must pursue a higher self interests - self interests which reflects our interdependence with other people and with our natural environment. We can pursue this higher self interest through our individual actions, but ultimately, we also must pursue it collectively as members of families, communities, nations, and society in general - yes, through government. The legitimate function of government is to allow us collectively to do those things that we cannot do individually. Government taxing and spending are the means by which we collectively buy those goods and services that, for one reason or another, it doesn't make sense for us to buy individually - the clearest examples being national defense, roads and bridges, and schools. There is a whole section of economics that deals with the legitimate role and function of "public goods and services," although this area of study is given little attention in most economic educational programs today. It is easier to bash government spending as a waste of "our hard earned money" than it is to explain to people that there are some things that we have to do together if they are to be done, and that we also have to pay for the things we buy together. Subsidies are the means by which we collectively pay "part of the cost" of things we deem to be in the pubic or societal good, in situations where there are private as well as public incentives for those things to be produced. In other words, without subsidies, some quantity might be produced, but not enough to meet the full needs of society, or an adequate quantity might be produced, but not by means consistent with the needs of society in general. So we as a society, through our various governments, provide a subsidies so that producers will produce the quantities needed by a means consistent with the greatest good for society as a whole. However, economists don't talk much about the legitimate role of subsidies - it's easier to bash subsidies as needless interference in the market. I am not defending government as it currently exists - in any community, state, or nation. There is undoubtedly much waste and misdirected use of tax payer dollars. The reasons are legion - not the least of which is the indefensible influence of corporations and powerful individuals of the public policy process. A predominance of public officials who lack any understanding of the legitimate role and function of a public sector is another. However, none of the current shortcomings of government negates the legitimacy of government in general in serving the public interest. The market will not provide the necessary incentives to sustain human live on earth over the long run. This will require legitimate and effective collective action on the part of society as a whole - through some form of government involvement. First, we will need collective action to reshape the economy of short run self interest so that it meets our legitimate needs as individuals. Collectively, we must restore competition, provide unbiased information, eliminate superficial differentiation, provide for ease of entry and exit, and do the other things necessary for markets to function effectively. But even then, we must continue to do those things collectively that are necessary to meet the needs of families, communities, and nations as "wholes" - rather just try to meet the needs of collections of individuals. And we must collectively take responsibility for the stewardship of our natural and human resources so as to leave opportunities for future generations to meet their needs as well. The markets simply will not do those things. We will not have truly effective government until we learn to pursue a higher concept of self interest - self interest that reflects the value we receive from relationships and stewardship as well as the value of meeting our current individual needs and wants. But, we will never eliminate the need for government - the need to do things collectively for the good of the whole. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Harris, Craig [mailto:Craig.Harris@ssc.msu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 7:19 PM To: Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; 'Hal Hamilton' Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) just for perspective, in recent years government payments have constituted between 40 and 50 percent of net farm income in the united states craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Hal Hamilton[SMTP:hhamilton@centerss.org] > Sent: Tuesday 26 October 1999 12:22 PM > To: Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) > > Bart wrote: > > "My core belief, however, is that subsidies distort the agri-food > economy to the degree that sustainability becomes vastly more elusive." > > Hal asks: Although you can demonstrate that subsidies provide incentives > for > decisions by producers that may be different from incentives provided > solely > by the market, what is your evidence that market incentives yield > sustainability? My assumption is that market incentives lead to > externalizing costs whenever possible. If I can produce more corn by > dozing > the fencerows, I'll do it, and let the birds nest somewhere else. > > Hal Hamilton wrote: > > >I hate to acknowledge it, but the Swiss and French Jura, where some of > the > >best cheese in the world is made, would be depopulated without subsidies. > > Bart wrote: If the demand for such local high quality food is *real*, it > will be > reflected in prices. If it is sustainable, subsidies will be > unnecessary. > > Hal answers: I'm talking about Swiss Gruyere and French Compte. The > demand > is real. The prices are relatively high. Industry is pressuring the > farmers to increase production to meet increasing demand. The farmer > coops > are resisting this pressure because their mental model of success is > something like "adequacy" instead of "continual growth." Quite > extraordinary, really. And that's why the Jura mountains are such a > wonderful region for tourists, hikers, bicyclists, etc.. It's beautiful. > But, unfortunately, the market return to the farmers, even with a premium > product, does not support a middle class lifestyle with modest scale > production. So there are subsidies for young farmers (something like > $50,000 grant to get started or buy out the parents), subsidies for > producing in the mountains, so the landscape is protected, and so forth. > My To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 12:55:02 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10318 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12619 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:18:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from umc-mail01.missouri.edu (umc-mail01.missouri.edu [128.206.10.216]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12605 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by umc-mail01.missouri.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:16:56 -0500 Message-ID: <52246021B94FD311B4B900609451548D0125DEB7@umc-mail02.missouri.edu> From: "Ikerd, John E." To: "'Hal Hamilton'" , "Ikerd, John E." , "'Harris, Craig'" , Bluestem Associates , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu, :jvworstell@futura.net Subject: RE: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French far mers) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:16:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3464 Hal; I agree! The thing that markets do exceptionally well, better than any other mechanism yet devised by humanity, is meet the current needs of individuals - they serve our short-run, self interests exceptionally well. No other means of allocating human or natural resources to meet our current individual needs is as efficient as free and open markets. And, meeting the needs of the present, of individuals in the present, is a critical dimension of sustainability. A system that would meet the needs of society in some distant future, but will not meet the needs of individuals today, is no more sustainable that one that meets the needs of the present but not of the future. Yes, one role of the government is to place boundaries on markets so that they better serve the needs of society, in the present and the future, as well as serving individuals. The collection of individuals is an important dimension of any family, community, or nation - even though it is not the whole of it. However, there are some things that markets quite simply are incapable of doing - regardless of boundaries. The fact that markets don't do these things is not "market failure," because markets were never designed to do them in the first place. The issues of relationships and stewardship, both of which are critical to the sustainability of humanity, are beyond the scope of markets and must be dealt with through collective, political or governmental processes. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Hal Hamilton [mailto:hhamilton@centerss.org] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 10:49 AM To: Ikerd, John E.; 'Harris, Craig'; Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; :jvworstell@futura.net Subject: RE: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French farmers) John Ikerd made a delightful contribution to the conversation about subsidies, markets, and government. Don't you also think, John, that markets do some things extremely well, and that one role of democratic society is to place some boundaries around the market? Another way to think about it is that a role of govt. is to both prod and pull markets toward sufficient rewards for public goods and sufficient disincentives for externalizing costs. Either way, Bart was right to criticize the misuse of public funds in capitalist economies and the horrible dysfunctions of state run economies. Well functioning but constrained markets would seem to be a necessary precondition of sustainable agriculture or sustainable anything. Hal Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org -----Original Message----- From: Ikerd, John E. [mailto:IkerdJ@missouri.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 11:03 AM To: 'Harris, Craig'; Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; 'Hal Hamilton'; ':jvworstell@futura.net' Subject: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French farmers) Hal, Craig, Bart, Jim... I think the defense of the need for, and legitimacy of, public "subsidies" to support sustainable agriculture, and the fact that instead we are subsidizing an unsustainable agriculture, have been made very well. So, I won't elaborate on these discussions, other than to state simply that "the market" will not ensure an ecologically sound or socially responsible agriculture - nor will it sustain the economic viability agriculture over the long run. Instead I want to focus on the source of the fallacy that the market is capable of meeting all of the needs of society and if something requires public funding, or a subsidy of any kind, that it's not sustainable. In general, the "market" will not provide the necessary incentives for a sustainable society. Markets reflect only the short-run self interests of individuals and sustainability is about the long run interests of humanity. Economists have mislead society -- probably because they are mislead themselves - into believing that the broad interests of society are served best through the pursuit of individual self interest. But, there is neither logical nor empirical support for this proposition. The belief that pursuit of self interests is lead to serve the public interest, as if by an "invisible hand," has its foundation in the writings of Adam Smith, in his book, An Inquiry into the Nature and Sources of the Wealth of Nations, published in 1776. Smith's "observations" of the world of 200+ years ago were only later translated in fundamental economic laws that were to hold for all times by economists where were searching for scientific rigor to justify their "discipline." However, none of the critical assumptions needed to transform "greed into good" hold today, because Smith's observations of 200 years ago do not describe the world of today. The necessary assumptions are atomistic competition (a large number of small sellers and buyers), perfect information (unbiased information, no misleading advertising), homogeneous products (no superficial differentiation), and freedom of entry and exit (no barriers, including large investments, preventing people from getting into or out of a business). Obviously, none of these assumptions describe the economy of today. The "invisible hand" has been mangled by the machinery of industrialization. Economists argue that everything is OK because the economy continues to produce large quantities of cheap, new stuff. That's the economic definition of "efficiency" - lots of new, cheap stuff. But, there is no evidence that resources are being efficiently allocated among alternative uses or that the long run needs of society are being met just because the economy is producing lots of new, cheap stuff. In addition, economics is fundamentally incapable of dealing with the needs of society as a whole. Economics assumes that society is nothing more than a collection of individuals - economics is incapable of addressing issues based on interpersonal comparisons of satisfaction. Families, communities, states, nations, humanity - these things have no meaning in economics apart from the summation of the individuals of which they are composed. The whole is simply the sum of the part and nothing more. Human relationships, the very essence of "society," have no meaning in economics. Economists see society primarily as a "constraint" to the pursuit of individual self-interests. Finally, economics doesn't really deal with the environment. Environmental issues are fundamentally ecological issues. I'm told that the first law of ecology is that "you can't do just one thing" -- that everything is interconnected, a part of the same whole. To economists, the environment is something "external," outside of the realm of the decision maker. The economic producer may extract raw materials from the environment, dump stuff into the environment, or public concern for the environment may constrain the decisions of the producer, but the environment is always something "outside." There is nothing in economics that deals with the humans as "a part of" the environment. Economics provides the optimum way to "use up resources" - there is nothing in economics that relates to sustaining the productivity of resources over the infinite long run. We cannot build a sustainable human society through pursuit of our short-run, individual self interests - through markets or contemporary economics. If we are to sustain humanity on earth, we must pursue a higher self interests - self interests which reflects our interdependence with other people and with our natural environment. We can pursue this higher self interest through our individual actions, but ultimately, we also must pursue it collectively as members of families, communities, nations, and society in general - yes, through government. The legitimate function of government is to allow us collectively to do those things that we cannot do individually. Government taxing and spending are the means by which we collectively buy those goods and services that, for one reason or another, it doesn't make sense for us to buy individually - the clearest examples being national defense, roads and bridges, and schools. There is a whole section of economics that deals with the legitimate role and function of "public goods and services," although this area of study is given little attention in most economic educational programs today. It is easier to bash government spending as a waste of "our hard earned money" than it is to explain to people that there are some things that we have to do together if they are to be done, and that we also have to pay for the things we buy together. Subsidies are the means by which we collectively pay "part of the cost" of things we deem to be in the pubic or societal good, in situations where there are private as well as public incentives for those things to be produced. In other words, without subsidies, some quantity might be produced, but not enough to meet the full needs of society, or an adequate quantity might be produced, but not by means consistent with the needs of society in general. So we as a society, through our various governments, provide a subsidies so that producers will produce the quantities needed by a means consistent with the greatest good for society as a whole. However, economists don't talk much about the legitimate role of subsidies - it's easier to bash subsidies as needless interference in the market. I am not defending government as it currently exists - in any community, state, or nation. There is undoubtedly much waste and misdirected use of tax payer dollars. The reasons are legion - not the least of which is the indefensible influence of corporations and powerful individuals of the public policy process. A predominance of public officials who lack any understanding of the legitimate role and function of a public sector is another. However, none of the current shortcomings of government negates the legitimacy of government in general in serving the public interest. The market will not provide the necessary incentives to sustain human live on earth over the long run. This will require legitimate and effective collective action on the part of society as a whole - through some form of government involvement. First, we will need collective action to reshape the economy of short run self interest so that it meets our legitimate needs as individuals. Collectively, we must restore competition, provide unbiased information, eliminate superficial differentiation, provide for ease of entry and exit, and do the other things necessary for markets to function effectively. But even then, we must continue to do those things collectively that are necessary to meet the needs of families, communities, and nations as "wholes" - rather just try to meet the needs of collections of individuals. And we must collectively take responsibility for the stewardship of our natural and human resources so as to leave opportunities for future generations to meet their needs as well. The markets simply will not do those things. We will not have truly effective government until we learn to pursue a higher concept of self interest - self interest that reflects the value we receive from relationships and stewardship as well as the value of meeting our current individual needs and wants. But, we will never eliminate the need for government - the need to do things collectively for the good of the whole. John Ikerd -----Original Message----- From: Harris, Craig [mailto:Craig.Harris@ssc.msu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 7:19 PM To: Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; 'Hal Hamilton' Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) just for perspective, in recent years government payments have constituted between 40 and 50 percent of net farm income in the united states craig craig k harris department of sociology michigan state university 429b berkey hall east lansing michigan 48824-1111 tel: 517-355-5048 fax: 517-432-2856 > ---------- > From: Hal Hamilton[SMTP:hhamilton@centerss.org] > Sent: Tuesday 26 October 1999 12:22 PM > To: Bluestem Associates; sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Subject: RE: Ag Subsidies (was French farmers) > > Bart wrote: > > "My core belief, however, is that subsidies distort the agri-food > economy to the degree that sustainability becomes vastly more elusive." > > Hal asks: Although you can demonstrate that subsidies provide incentives > for > decisions by producers that may be different from incentives provided > solely > by the market, what is your evidence that market incentives yield > sustainability? My assumption is that market incentives lead to > externalizing costs whenever possible. If I can produce more corn by > dozing > the fencerows, I'll do it, and let the birds nest somewhere else. > > Hal Hamilton wrote: > > >I hate to acknowledge it, but the Swiss and French Jura, where some of > the > >best cheese in the world is made, would be depopulated without subsidies. > > Bart wrote: If the demand for such local high quality food is *real*, it > will be > reflected in prices. If it is sustainable, subsidies will be > unnecessary. > > Hal answers: I'm talking about Swiss Gruyere and French Compte. The > demand > is real. The prices are relatively high. Industry is pressuring the > farmers to increase production to meet increasing demand. The farmer > coops > are resisting this pressure because their mental model of success is > something like "adequacy" instead of "continual growth." Quite > extraordinary, really. And that's why the Jura mountains are such a > wonderful region for tourists, hikers, bicyclists, etc.. It's beautiful. > But, unfortunately, the market return to the farmers, even with a premium > product, does not support a middle class lifestyle with modest scale > production. So there are subsidies for young farmers (something like > $50,000 grant to get started or buy out the parents), subsidies for > producing in the mountains, so the landscape is protected, and so forth. > My To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 13:08:19 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10877 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18050 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:32:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from aurora.nal.usda.gov (aurora.nal.usda.gov [192.54.138.38]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17960 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by aurora.nal.usda.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id <4QTHJBK1>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:31:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: Sustainable Agriculture Network To: "'sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu'" Subject: FW: The future of organic agriculture - conference Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:31:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) List-Help: ecol-agric@mailbase.ac.uk List-Unsubscribe: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3465 The web site for this conference is, unfortunately, only in German at this time! Nothing here about the language for the conference itself. Andy Clark SAN Coordinator http://www.sare.org -----Original Message----- From: reimer@merkur.wiz.uni-kassel.de To: ecol-agric@mailbase.ac.uk Sent: 10/25/99 11:22 AM Subject: The future of organic agriculture - conference Dear list members of ecol-agric, I would like to invite you to a conference held from 6th to 10th of december in Witzenhausen, Germany. The subject of the conference is the future of organic agriculture. During the conference there will be several lectures concerning different themes of organic agriculture. We will start investigating the roots of this type of farming and reconsider the aims of the pioneers. Afterwards the current situation is to be anlysed and the future developement should be described and visions are to be discussed. In so called "future workshops" (a method invented by Robert Jungk) the participants may develop their own ideas concerning the future of organic agriculture. You can find detailed information (including programme and application form) in the www at http://www.wiz.uni-kassel.de/zukunft . I have to appologize that so far the www-informations are only available in German. If I will find the time I am going to translate the most important pages to English. You may also send email for further information or application to zukunft@merkur.wiz.uni-kassel.de. You may call 0049 5542 4641 or send a fax to 0049 5542 981575 as well. Looking forward to any reactions Carsten Reimer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -- Konferenz "The future of Ecological Agriculture" - Organisation committee email: zukunft@wiz.uni-kassel.de Tel.: 0049-(0)5542-98- 1598 Fax: 0049-(0)5542-98- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 13:09:58 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10900 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14296 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:24:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14207 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:27:37 -0500 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.114] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A70D10E10276; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:23:41 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:22:08 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Another perspective - subsidies Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3466 On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:48:48 -0400, Hal Hamilton wrote: >John Ikerd made a delightful contribution to the conversation Indeed. John's comments are precisely the sort I had hoped to stimulate with my original post. > Don't you also think, John, that markets do some things extremely well, Markets are currently quite good at discovering price, but they're pretty lousy at determining *cost* I suspect the discipline of economics is approaching a major shift in how costs are understood. As an undergraduate geology student in the mid-60s I remember well the growing understanding of the need to incorporate global tectonics across what we were already then doing. Mineralogy, stratigraphy, paleontology, etc. were not discredited or invalidated, rather, global tectonics gave them an overarching framework within which they could more usefully (and more correctly) be interpreted and applied in the service of our collective understanding of the system. Perhaps in an economics of true-cost the issue of subsidies will be largely moot. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 13:30:47 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11230 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08947 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08921 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10830; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id NAA22302; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:05:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:05:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: Klaus Wiegand cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Animal waste/sludge feeding In-Reply-To: <3829D32E64@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3467 On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, Klaus Wiegand wrote: > >I heard mention of feeding livestock poultry manure. I would imagine that > >would be limited to poultry and beef. > > the economic calculation behind is the following: poultry digest > about 15- 20% of the feedstuff's net energy. this allows a repeated > refeeding of the dried manure up to 3 to 4 times before the > foodstuff(??) is "sucked out". > > nice gain..... > > but on the other side: would you know, that a baker in europe is > allowed to reuse up to 10% of unsold and milled old bread for his > breaddough of the next day??? Right feed the loyal customers partailly decayed and rancid bread dough. Bread goes off quickly after baking & must be frozen until ready for use; my experience is that a loaf of 100% rye Vollkonbrot will remain palatable in the fridge for a little over a week, less for lighter breads. > is that cheating buyers (who do not know) or a highly morale > attitude to deal with our resource food ??? how much bread is Of course it is. > thrown into the garbage can every day in the whole USA ?? anybody > knows ?? Probably very much; another question is how much good food is wasted through processing and adulterization for packaging for long term storage and shipping. Food grown locally, minimally processed or not at all and sold locally is the best option. Encourage consumption of foods that are in season grown creatively by committed small to large local growers to sale to clientele within easy driving distance of their farms. Again, the fertile crescent concept works best for supporting local economies & communities, keeping good farmland in the hands of farmers for perpetuity so that they can produce the best product possible for their neighbors and nearby towns and cities and for for a price that is fair for both parties, one that could equal or be less than supermarket pricing. Look at it this way, I could grow organic spinach and sell it for $.75/lb. or less and make a good living, especially if I could sell it directly off the farm. I would not waste my time or money with "certification"; my produce would speak for itself and my clients would live close enough to me to be able to easily decide for themselves how "organic" my product was. I would simply say that it was grown using methods consistent with the priciples governing the universe beyond time. By the time they got through wondering about that they would have their attention focused on the quality of the produce I'm selling them and would have long forgotten whether some wuss bozo declared it could be certified "organic". Enough red tape and bureauocracy - get on with growing a good product using natural farming methods to sell to urban areas nearest you. > due to hygienic reason i certainly prefer the 2. option !!! I agree with you there. Lawrence F. London, Jr. Venaura Farm http://metalab.unc.edu /london/orgfarm /ecolandtech /intergarden /permaculture lflondon@mindspring.com london@metalab.unc.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 13:55:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11829 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15560 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:26:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cwb.ca ([205.200.215.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15459 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mint.cwb.ca id <26887>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:35:05 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CWB From: "Pat Elazar" To: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Message-Id: <99Oct27.113505cdt.26887@mint.cwb.ca> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:23:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Animal waste/sludge feeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3468 Klaus asked: ??? how much bread is thrown into the garbage can every day in the whole USA ?? anybody knows ?? Pat replies: Probably not so much- you see in America, we use so much preservatives in our industrial baking that the bread never gets stale! When I lived in the old world, we fed the day-old bread to the goats (it was subsidised- I'm not joking!). To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 14:15:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12516 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28270 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:37:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.a001.sprintmail.com (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28266 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:37:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP128.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.192]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA03726 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38173940.B18612AC@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:41:20 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: US campaign finance reform Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3469 Anita, So, your political animal is coming out of hibernation, eh? Perhaps it has been around all along. Everything we do is a political/economic statement. Anita Graf (Staff)" wrote: "The results show clearly that at least in Nebraska, both rural and urban people favor vibrant rural communies, smaller farms, smaller businesses, more variety of rural business, etc., yet their expectations show without fail that they don't see their preferences coming to pass." Sure, everyone wants to have vibrant rural communities. But we keep developing these into suburban sprawls. And everyone wants to buy from small farmers, but few are willing to pay a real price for the production of food or to "inconvenience" themselves by shopping at a market rather than stopping at a supermarket "conveniently" located on their way to their suburban homes. And most want small, locally owned businesses, but we continue to buy from the Walmarts, Home Depots, etc., instead of paying a higher price from the small local stores. More variety of rural business? Rural is disappearing and will soon be only a myth in children's books- like Farmer Brown and his farm family who live a bucolic life... Here's the point- we vote with our dollars. If we lived in condos in already developed urban areas and stopped developing farmland; if we bought all we could from local farmers before shopping at locally owned food stores, if we went to the local hardware or bookstore- then we would see the picture presented in the poll. Sadly enough, (as we've discussed privately) most of us want this kind of scenario AND we continue in our short-sightedness about economy and convenience. We just don't get the connection between our actions and the results. Being responsible means that we look at all the ways we know how of how our actions (buying, selling, employment, personal relationships, community involvement,...) affect the whole. OK. Let's do an internal poll of the list, shall we? (By internal, I ask each of us to question ourselves and see where we stand.) Let's ask ourselves if we buy from local farmers and those attempting to attain sustainability, form locally owned stores and restaurants rather than chains, are our homes set up as sustainable as we can- recycling, reduced water use, composting, garden and/or sprouts. Also, are we active in CBOs that are working towards these ends. It is too easy to say that we are supportive of this and quite another thing to do it. We can't change the world, but we can change what we ourselves do. And a change in habits of 10% of us creates new markets. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 14:32:57 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12908 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10649 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:00:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.67]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10612 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.104]) by lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19991027175904.YEGV16289.lh2.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:59:04 -0700 Message-ID: <38173E0B.BE8C70C7@home.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:01:47 -0700 From: William Evans Reply-To: williamevans@home.com Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg-digest@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: sludge feeding Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3470 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:45:01 -0500 From: "Greg & Lei Gunthorp" Subject: Re: Animal waste/sludge feeding Does any of this stuff go on in the US? I've heard that a great deal of LA sludge goes to mojave desert for the purpose of alfalfa production...turning the desert green...."Indirectly" feeding sludge to anything that would forage on this crop. billevans To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 14:39:46 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13109 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09701 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:58:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09695 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01203 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:56:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eweigel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EPX27BPY; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:52:37 EDT To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:32:20 -0700 Subject: Re: free range eggs Message-ID: <19991027.103624.3446.2.eweigel@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,17,20,32,45,52-54 From: Edna M Weigel Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3471 Dear Glenn and SANET: I agree with Glenn's openion that low stress management adds value, whether to eggs, lambs, or whatever. What the ivory tower folks seem to overlook when they say free range eggs are nutritionally equivalent to battery eggs is the difference made by sunshine, exercise, and all the un-measured nutrients the critters pick up on that free range. (Do they really believe a free range chicken doesn't pick up any nutrients at all while they are out on the range?) In my case, the chickens aren't really free range because I have 12 of them confined to 0.6 acres. But they have eaten all the grasshoppers in their yard and I'm starting to let them into the garden in the evenings so they can catch what are still hopping around eating what is left of my summer garden (I'd rather have chickens eat it than the grasshoppers!). Meanwhile, as soon as my husband can help me with fencing, we'll more than double their range. And I'm developing compost piles all around their yard so they can help with turning (and eating sow bugs and termites and whatever) while the grasshoppers are gone for the winter and our normally dry spring.) Another point so often overlooked is the fact that eggs bought directly from the farmer are most likely fresher (who has room to store several month's supply of eggs, anyway?--not me). I agree that I need to cover the cost of the higher quality feed and receive a little something for my extra effort so I need to sell high. I have no reservations about defending my price when customers want my eggs at supermarket prices. On the other hand, I defend those who chose to pay less for what (to me) are clearly lower quality at the supermarket. There are enough customers for both kinds. They make their choice and pay their money. Even if everyone in my community was willing to spend $3.00 for my eggs, I wouldn't be willing to care for that many chickens. Besides, not even my whole 10 acres could grow enough grasshoppers to keep that many chickens in protein for even a few days of the year! (I'll admit the idea of grasshopper extinction would be attractive to me and many of my neighbors.) Glenn mentioned that feed would have to be shipped over 2500 miles and I can understand the econimics of shipping eggs instead. But if he wants fresh eggs, he might consider growing his own chicken feed (and I wouldn't be suprised if he does just that for a small flock). On the other hand, I am considering the economic implications: anything I spend on chicken feed is tax deductable (assuming I actually make a profit, which I didn't last year) but anything I spend on food for my husband and I is not. Thus, if it comes down to a choice between growing plants for my husband and I or for the chickens, it makes more sence to concentrate on us. Fortunately, the chickens eat most anything we'll eat and they don't mind if it's damaged by insects, so they can get by with what we grow for us but reject for some reason or another. It works out nicely. I have a friend who likes to tell people my chickens eat better than most people do. That's probably true, but the chickens don't eat better than my husband and I because we get FIRST choice of the garden pickings. Meanwhile, we reject most of the junk food that is common in the American diet. I suspect we end up spending far less for our food than most people in this country, but we eat only the best quality we can find and grow what we can. Best regards, Edna ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 15:12:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13906 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:12:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03731 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:41:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03607 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.165]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02299 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:39:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unity.ncsu.edu (2405p200.ppath.ncsu.edu [152.1.176.53]) by uni02mr.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/UR01Feb99) with ESMTP id OAA00758 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:39:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <381747BF.5C98D9BE@unity.ncsu.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:43:11 -0400 From: Russ Bulluck X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sustainable Ag Subject: [Fwd: Hog Waste Risk (fwd)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3472 Thought y'all might be interested. I thought I'd heard/read that something better was going to be done. . .Russ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Hog Waste Risk (fwd) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:51:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Environmental Resource Program Reply-To: checchogs@listserv.oit.unc.edu To: checchogs ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:21:40 -0400 (EDT) >From: SierraDave@aol.com To: checcalert@listserv.oit.unc.edu Subject: Hog Waste Risk The following has been posted on the Environmental Defense Funds web site. Flooding from hurricanes Dennis and Floyd has devastated eastern North Carolina. But the state's emergency plan for hog farm waste is not about to make things better. http://www.edf.org/pubs/newsreleases/1999/oct/b_floyd.html David E. Sullivan To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 16:57:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16817 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:57:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25028 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:09:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24763 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.192.219.119] by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FKA00JER2GFR6@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:10:18 -0700 From: Misha Subject: Fwd: Competition and Subsidy in the Free Market To: SANET-mg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id QAA24944 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3473 Howdy, all-- This is apropos of our discussion of subsidies. It came via Common Courage Press's "political literacy course," available by e-mail. See publisher Greg Bates's comment on this strategy, at the bottom of the message. The point here is how the "free" market is terrain owned by certain interests. And how the very organizations (corporations) who invoke "competition" to justify their M&As, takeovers, "downsizings," etc., in fact do what they can to drive competitors out. >Information about this email course appears at the bottom. > >Who Owns the Playing Field Called "The Free Market"? > >By engaging in competitive struggles that make them serve the consumer >better in a free market, corporations enrich society. > >That's not what they teach at business school. Corporations have many >inventive ways of stacking the deck to avoid competition--and bilk >consumers, according to Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman, co-authors >of "Corporate Predators: The Hunt for Mega-Profits and the Attack on >Democracy." One is price fixing, where competing businesses set prices >together. Dwayne Andreas, former CEO of the agriculture giant Archer >Daniels Midland, put it best when he told some of his competitors how he >viewed them and consumers. > >"We are not going to be manipulated by these god damn buyers They can be >smarter than us if we let them be smarter They are not your friend. They >are not my friend. And we gotta have 'em. Thank god we gotta have 'em, but >they are not my friends. You are my friends. And I wanna be closer to you >than I am to any customer 'cause you can make us money." > >The competitor is our friend, the customer our enemy. > >Another method, again outlined by Andreas, is subsidizing giant >corporations. Socialism for the rich: > >"There isn't one grain of anything in the world that is sold in a free >market. Not one! The only place you see a free market is in the speeches >of politicians. People who are not from the Midwest don't understand that >this is a socialist country." > >Consider these techniques for rigging the market and enriching business at >the consumers expense: > >*Keep competition at bay by extending the life of patents so you keep >prices high and continue bilking customers. In 1997, drug maker >Schering-Plough, who spends $2 million per year on lobbyists, asked >Senator Frank Lautenberg to add a provision to a bill that would extend >the patent on a class of just seven drugs. The plan was foiled when the >advocacy group Public Citizen exposed the scheme. > >*Donate gobs of cash to politicians who can vouch for your interests. Take >the gambling-industry-funded attack ads on politicians who criticize what >gambling spokespeople like to term "family entertainment," which >successfully stifled the grassroots movement into limiting gambling >expansion. Examples include video-gaming interests in South Carolina, >which contributed $400, 000 to defeat David Beasley, the Republican >governor and critic of gambling, and which donated $500,000 to the >Republican National Committee to run attack ads against Democratic >Governor and gambling critic Parris Glendening. > >*Get the government to give you the rights to drug research gratis. >Bristol-Myers Squibb obtained rights to the anti-cancer drug Taxol for >free. It spends 40 cents per milligram to produce it. The customer, >usually a cancer patient, forks over $8.50 per milligram. > >*If the free market of ideas worries you, send a chill down the spines of >printers who are printing the magazines that expose your products as >dangerous. In 1998 in Britain, Monsanto, a company engaged in genetically >modifying crops, found out that an issue of the Ecologist focusing on the >company was due to be printed shortly. Though Monsanto denies having >anything to do with it, the printer--who had been printing the Ecologist >for 26 years--said it feared being sued for libel and suddenly and >mysteriously shredded the entire 14,000-copy run it had printed. The >Ecologist was forced to print elsewhere. > >*Another favorite tool to stave off competition is buying your >competitors. This handy-dandy trick is being used in banking (Chase >Manhattan and Chemical Bank), in TV (Time Warner buys CNN, TBS, TNT), and >telecommunications (Worldcom snatches MCI from the jaws of British >Telecom). > >*Finally, it's important to prevent consumers from suing you so that when >your crimes are exposed you don't face the consequences. Lobbyists for >years have tried, and so far largely failed, to cap damages awarded to >plaintiffs who win lawsuits. But they keep trying, for example, to limit >liability on goods with long lives like elevators, and to increase the >burden of proof. This would insure that crime keeps paying. > >If profit is the goal, free markets and responsibility for faulty or >dangerous products are to be avoided like the plague. > >For more ways that corporations stack the deck, from tobacco companies >seeking limits on liability to how the International Monetary Fund has >become a corporate welfare machine, see Corporate Predators: The Hunt for >Mega-Profits and the Attack on Democracy. >http://www.commoncouragepress.com/corporate.html > > Also available is a Beyond the Book Interview with the authors, "The Raw >Power of Corporate America"; see >http://www.commoncouragepress.com/corporateinterview.html > >TOMORROW: When is it okay to go on welfare? > >This is the free Political Literacy Course from Common Courage Press: A >backbone of facts to stand up to spineless power. Email 38, October 27 >1999. Week 8: More on Corporate Crime > > Homepage: http://www.commoncouragepress.com > To subscribe for free: mailto:PolitLit-subscribe@listbot.com > Chatroom: http://www.cartserver.com/bbs/a/3827/index.cgi > Feedback/Title suggestions: mailto:gbates@commoncouragepress.com > >Missed any? > Course archive: http://www.commoncouragepress.com/politlitarchive.html > >YES! This course is partly advertising for books. But it's also intended >as political fertilizer: feel free to spread it around! About Common Courage Press: a small publisher in Maine, they publish many authors who can no longer find publishers in the mainstream. In part because other publishers are afraid to print and distribute critiques of corporate power structures. Marc Lappe, of the Center for Ethics and Toxics, tells a wonderful story about that. He tried to find a publisher for his book /Against the Grain/, which among other things criticizes Monsanto. Publishers interested in the manuscript wanted to know how much insurance he was carrying to protect them from a Monsanto libel lawsuit. Well, nobody but a corporation or an author backed by a mega-publisher could afford that...so he started despairing of finding a publisher. At some point he connected with Bates, had a meeting with him, and expressed interest in the manuscript. Marc asked Bates, so what about litigation insurance? Bates said, "Oh, we've taken care of that already. You're covered." Marc was very impressed--wow, not only were they interested in his ms., they'd thought ahead to this and somehow managed to get litigation insurance? He said as much to Bates, who replied, "Don't worry. We've got your litigation insurance all covered. You're covered. We're covered. Everyone is. It's called the First Amendment." peace misha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michele Gale-Sinex Communications manager Center for Integrated Ag Systems, UW-Madison http://www.wisc.edu UW voice mail: 608-262-8018 Home office: 415-504-6474 (504-MISH) Home office fax: Same as above, phone first for enabling ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don't forget that most men would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor. --John Dickinson (in the musical /1776/) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 17:08:54 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17107 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03531 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:25:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03477 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:25:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.110]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04642 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dan (bsg-ma2a-118.ix.netcom.com [209.110.252.118]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA17922; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00da01bf20b9$1d6d3c80$76fc6ed1@dan> Reply-To: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Edna M Weigel" Subject: Re: free range eggs Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:10:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3474 Hi sanet, While on the topic of eggs and chickens I have a question. I promised my neighbor , age 9, that he and I could try and hatch some eggs. I plan on ordering one of those tiny 3 egg incubators. Anyone have experience with one? Yes I have fertilized eggs, well if the roster is preforming :). My mother a kindergarten teacher many years ago used one of these and I believe successfully hatched 2 one of which survived and produced eggs. My mother passed quite a few years ago so I cannot ask her for info, although I think she'd be pleased I was trying it. My mother grew up on a chicken farm so she probably "knew what she was doing". My two cents I cannot believe that free range eggs are not higher in nutrients how can a yolk be that yellow and not be higher in Vit. A? Thanks Beth To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 17:32:21 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17602 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20046 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:49:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from saffron.propagation.net (saffron.propagation.net [216.221.160.23]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19933 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 204.149.164.41 (mx3-27.ilhawaii.net [204.149.164.41]) by saffron.propagation.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA16176; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:47:56 -0500 Message-ID: <381768A0.526A@smallfarms.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:03:29 -1000 From: Glenn Reply-To: glenn@smallfarms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: US campaign finance reform Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3475 Dear Alex, Anita, and The Community of Farmers: Alex wrote: "It is too easy to say that we are supportive of this and quite another thing to do it. We can't change the world, but we can change what we ourselves do. And a change in habits of 10% of us creates new markets." We also need to let other people, farmers and non farmers alike know what we're doing as individuals. The communities that we and other like minded folks out there want will develop slowly, and will be as difficult work as running a viable farm, but the results will be solid and sustainable. Anita, I checked out http://www.thehungersite.com. The companies that are sponsoring the donations seem legitimate. I'll visit the site often, and I recommend that other readers do the same. On Alex's mention of CBOs: Community Based Organizations benefit by donations and the volunteer work you do there. I've noticed that many talented people shy away from doing board work with CBOs feeling that they somehow aren't qualified to provide effective management and policy making direction. They're wrong. Anyone who farms or has been involved in research and education has the perspective and judgement necessary to serve well. Do it. Our communities will be better for your work. By the way, I no longer make any political donations. I prefer Alex's and Anita's agenda. glenn Buy from the Farmer http://www.smallfarms.com To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 17:47:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17986 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26006 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:03:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.iol.ie (mail2.mail.iol.ie [194.125.2.193]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25968 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [193.203.145.56] (dialup-0312.dublin.iol.ie [193.203.145.56]) by mail.iol.ie Sendmail (v8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03102 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:01:33 +0100 (IST) X-Sender: kmarsh@gpo.iol.ie Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:55:32 +0100 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: kathryn marsh Subject: Re: French farmers feeding human sewage to livestock Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3476 >There's a lively food fight developping in Europe after an EU >veterinary report revealed that pig and poultry producers in France >have been routinely including human sewage sludge in their feed. The >same practice, much less widespread, has been occurring with cattle. > >Sorta undermines their stand regarding hormones, doesn't it? > >Please do not take that to mean that I endorse hormones in mean, or >even oppose the EU ban thereon. It just kinda blows their food "purity" >argument right out of the water, especially coming on the heels of >Belgian contamination scandals and the emerging knowledge of widespread >black market hormone use in French, Belgian, and Dutch livestock >operations. > >Bart > > Sorry Bart, I don't see why this has anything at all to do with the stance on hormones - and I bet French housewives don't either - from what I hear they've suddenly got very careful about home grown products. Because some farmers break the law and put poison in the food we should all be exposed to poisoned american food? In Europe the vast majority of us don't want to eat Hormone fattened beef GMOs Sewage Antibiotics Ruminants that have been fed on other ruminants (or other animals for that matter etc, etc. The resistance the EU has showed to hormones and GMOs in a reflection of consumer reaction not of european farming opinion. Do you really want to see the Agricultural Commissioner lynched by angry shoppers? kathryn To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 17:48:29 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17996 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03167 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:11:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02990 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0142740F@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:09:30 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 27 Oct 99 17:09:27 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 27 Oct 99 17:08:59 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:08:51 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: US campaign finance reform CC: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu In-reply-to: <38172F71.4D01C7CA@sprintmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3477 Alex McGregor wrote: (snip) > Here's the point- we vote with our dollars... Let's ask ourselves if we > buy from local farmers and those attempting to attain sustainability, form > locally owned stores and restaurants rather than chains, are our homes set up > as sustainable as we can- recycling, reduced water use, composting, garden > and/or sprouts. Also, are we active in CBOs that are working towards these > ends. > > It is too easy to say that we are supportive of this and quite another thing > to do it. We can't change the world, but we can change what we ourselves do. > And a change in habits of 10% of us creates new markets. Yes, Alex, I agree with all that you say. However, I still say our "dollar votes" will not likely ever satisfy us in its SYSTEM-wide changing results like working to level the playing field from the other side. Get the Giant Players out of the game (you know, as much as possible) so that we can also vote with our VOTES as we are theoretically supposed to be able to do. "Democracies" should not be run soley by protests, boycotts, and strikes. Politicians and government is supposed to be of THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE and not just OF THE DOLLARS AND FOR THE DOLLARS. At least that's my take on this whole US Civics thang. Anita Anita Graf Research Coordinator Market Development of Organic Agricultural Products 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 18:52:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18926 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16798 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:19:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16787 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.130]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06931 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from coop.ext.colostate.edu (coop.EXT.ColoState.EDU [129.82.139.50]) by mesa.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28052; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:17:14 -0600 Received: from nrcs3.cohugo.fsc.usda.gov (nrcs3.cohugo.fsc.usda.gov [199.153.37.252]) by coop.ext.colostate.edu (AIX4.3/UCB 8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA25354; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:11:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199910272211.QAA25354@coop.ext.colostate.edu> From: "Will Arnold" To: , "Edna M Weigel" , "Dan Hook" Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:08:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: free range eggs Reply-to: warnold@coop.ext.colostate.edu In-reply-to: <00da01bf20b9$1d6d3c80$76fc6ed1@dan> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3478 You might try your local Extension office. In many states 4-H has a school enrichment program called "hatching chicks in the classroom". They may even have an incubator they might lend you. Since I don't know where you live I can't vouch for them having this program in your state. Will Arnold Send reply to: "Dan Hook" From: "Dan Hook" To: , "Edna M Weigel" Subject: Re: free range eggs Date sent: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:10:16 -0400 > Hi sanet, While on the topic of eggs and chickens I have a question. I > promised my neighbor , age 9, that he and I could try and hatch some eggs. > I plan on ordering one of those tiny 3 egg incubators. Anyone have > experience with one? Yes I have fertilized eggs, well if the roster is > preforming :). My mother a kindergarten teacher many years ago used one of > these and I believe successfully hatched 2 one of which survived and > produced eggs. My mother passed quite a few years ago so I cannot ask her > for info, although I think she'd be pleased I was trying it. My mother grew > up on a chicken farm so she probably "knew what she was doing". My two > cents I cannot believe that free range eggs are not higher in nutrients how > can a yolk be that yellow and not be higher in Vit. A? Thanks Beth > > > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail Will Arnold Regional Extension Specialist/RC&D Community Development P.O. Box 157 Hugo CO 80821 (719)743-2370 ext 112 warnold@coop.ext.colostate.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 20:20:36 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20392 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29266 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:00:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.internet.com.mx (mail.internet.com.mx [200.10.239.229]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29259 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by mail.internet.com.mx (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA13426 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:57:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991027185433.00750e90@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:54:33 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: Another perspective - subsidies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA29261 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3479 Bart wrote: >Markets are currently quite good at discovering price, but they're >pretty lousy at determining *cost* >I suspect the discipline of economics is approaching a major shift in >how costs are understood. As an undergraduate geology student in the >mid-60s I remember well the growing understanding of the need to >incorporate global tectonics across what we were already then doing. >Mineralogy, stratigraphy, paleontology, etc. were not discredited or >invalidated, rather, global tectonics gave them an overarching >framework within which they could more usefully (and more correctly) be >interpreted and applied in the service of our collective understanding >of the system. > >Perhaps in an economics of true-cost the issue of subsidies will be >largely moot. > Very insightful observation, I think. A clue to what is in store has already been given by the economists themselves in their Nobel Prize to Douglass North. North is considered the foremost expert on "transaction costs". This innocent-sounding idea really holds implies a revolution in economic thinking along the lines you suggest. North's real thrust is the study of the institutional context of economics. Markets don't exist in a vacuum, as some would have us belief, but always in the context of a set of rules, institutions, ways of doing things, in a word, in a culture. "The market" is really only good at doing anything when it has the right cultural and institutional context--e.g Western European and American capitalist society. It is often very bad at doing the same things when, say, the IMF imposes "market logic" on place with a very different cultural and institutional context--e.g. Russia or Malaysia. The results can be dramatically negative. The structure and content of these institutions is the "overarching framework" necessary for understanding markets. Transaction costs are what a firm has to invest in order to maintain the rules of doing business. "The cost of doing business". North estimates that transaction costs were around 25% of the economy at the end of the last century; now they represent something like 85%. (Think of money spent lobbying, for example) This is clearly indicative of a major change in "the way of doing business", in the institutional context of "the market". Huge transaction costs of the 'global economy' are highly distorting of an ideal 'free market' situation, as John Ikerd described. Corporations, especially working together (e.g. the Transatlantic Business Dialogue) can write off large transaction costs and thus have an decisive advantage against small businesses, e.g. small farmers, even if they are far less efficient and produce junk. Such is our world. For more, read: North, Douglass C. (1990) Institutions, Institutional Change and Economic Performance. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 20:21:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20398 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00761 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:05:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from jovel ([167.114.50.138]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29830 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ssc053.sancristobal.com.mx ([167.114.50.135]) by jovel (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA26480 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:59:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991027235433.006e1904@mail.internet.com.mx> X-Sender: danamex@mail.internet.com.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:54:33 -0500 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu From: Ronald Nigh Subject: Re: Another perspective - subsidies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id UAA00670 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3480 Bart wrote: >Markets are currently quite good at discovering price, but they're >pretty lousy at determining *cost* >I suspect the discipline of economics is approaching a major shift in >how costs are understood. As an undergraduate geology student in the >mid-60s I remember well the growing understanding of the need to >incorporate global tectonics across what we were already then doing. >Mineralogy, stratigraphy, paleontology, etc. were not discredited or >invalidated, rather, global tectonics gave them an overarching >framework within which they could more usefully (and more correctly) be >interpreted and applied in the service of our collective understanding >of the system. > >Perhaps in an economics of true-cost the issue of subsidies will be >largely moot. > Very insightful observation, I think. A clue to what is in store has already been given by the economists themselves in their Nobel Prize to Douglass North. North is considered the foremost expert on "transaction costs". This innocent-sounding idea really holds implies a revolution in economic thinking along the lines you suggest. North's real thrust is the study of the institutional context of economics. Markets don't exist in a vacuum, as some would have us belief, but always in the context of a set of rules, institutions, ways of doing things, in a word, in a culture. "The market" is really only good at doing anything when it has the right cultural and institutional context--e.g Western European and American capitalist society. It is often very bad at doing the same things when, say, the IMF imposes "market logic" on place with a very different cultural and institutional context--e.g. Russia or Malaysia. The results can be dramatically negative. The structure and content of these institutions is the "overarching framework" necessary for understanding markets. Transaction costs are what a firm has to invest in order to maintain the rules of doing business. "The cost of doing business". North estimates that transaction costs were around 25% of the economy at the end of the last century; now they represent something like 85%. (Think of money spent lobbying, for example) This is clearly indicative of a major change in "the way of doing business", in the institutional context of "the market". Huge transaction costs of the 'global economy' are highly distorting of an ideal 'free market' situation, as John Ikerd described. Corporations, especially working together (e.g. the Transatlantic Business Dialogue) can write off large transaction costs and thus have an decisive advantage against small businesses, e.g. small farmers, even if they are far less efficient and produce junk. Such is our world. For more, read: North, Douglass C. (1990) Institutions, Institutional Change and Economic Performance. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. Ronald Nigh Dana, A.C. Mexico, D.F. & San Cristbal de Las Casas, Chiapas Tel. y FAX 525-666-73-66 (DF) 529-678-72-15 (Chiapas) danamex@mail.internet.com.mx To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 20:24:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20435 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04124 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:10:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.hurontel.on.ca (mail.hurontel.on.ca [216.46.129.11]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03995 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:09:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (clifford-180.wcl.on.ca [216.46.132.180]) by mail.hurontel.on.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA02705 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009401bf20d9$be5e33e0$b4842ed8@oemcomputer> From: "Dave Lewington" To: "Sanet" Subject: Re: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:16:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3481 Dale, My comments are in response to your comments stating that Pioneer would supply what its customers want. I'm from southern Ontario in the 2650 heat unit zone, and neither Pioneer nor Novartis have come out with any new hybrids in the last 2 or 3 years (Novartis longer than that) that are non GMO. As far as I'm concerned, all seed companies should be required to make available the non GMO base hybrid that is in every GMO hybrid. Either that or you are going to drive all of us that don't wish to grow GMO to the small local companies or to open pollinated corn. On second thought, maybe its a good idea after all! Dave To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 22:08:18 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21400 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06228 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:39:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from coyote.rain.org (postfix@coyote.rain.org [198.68.144.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06185 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sals (mp140.nc.rain.org [198.68.145.140]) by coyote.rain.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EAF416174C; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002d01bf20e4$ff6c8e80$8c9144c6@rain.org> From: "Sal" To: "Dave Lewington" , "Sanet" References: <009401bf20d9$be5e33e0$b4842ed8@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Benefit of BT Corn Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:37:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3482 Swiss Detect Contaminated Non-GE Corn from USA > >The Swiss Department of Agriculture discovered that guaranteed non-GE corn >from the USA was contaminated with genetically modified varieties. The >corn was purchased from Pioneer Hi-Bred (USA). Before the contamination >was discovered, about 200 hectares of contaminated seeds were planted, and >another 200 hectares worth of the seeds were sold. Swiss farmers burned the >fields planted with contaminated seeds. The Swiss seed importer compensated >farmers 700 Swiss Francs per hectare. is there any truth to this news ? I was just wondering check out a organic growers web page http://www.rain.org/~sals/my.html . To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 22:32:09 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21688 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22946 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:00:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.a001.sprintmail.com (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22921 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP026.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.138]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24831 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3817AEF0.510F455E@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:03:28 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re: US campaign finance reform Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3483 Anita, Yes, but how do we get rid of the Big Guys? Answer: DON'T BUY THEIR CRAP! If nobody showed up at any Walmart stores, they'd be bankrupt in a matter of days. Their empires are built on cash flow and any interruption spells doom. It's not a matter of boycotting, it's a matter of education- Why should you spend your dollar somewhere else? And, the whole corporate structure is built on confidence just like the American dollar. Many years ago, we had the value of all currency circulating stashed as gold to back it up. We could go to the gummint and get that much gold for our dollars. Then it was changed to silver. Read a dollar bill now. It says "Federal Reserve Note." Not even a government agency. What we have now is an agreement that a dollar is worth a dollar to all of us. If we all of a sudden say, "Wait a minute, this is just a piece of paper," the whole system would crash. So, we can't change the election system- the elected officials make the laws. And they're not going to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. But we can buy FROM THE PEOPLE and make economic decisions FOR THE PEOPLE and let ConAgra & ADM eat their own products. But, alas, there are whores everywhere that will do anything for money and/or fame. However, we have a choice about what we want to be. Just because everyone else is selling their souls doesn't mean we have to. Alex "The water will never clear up 'til you get the hogs out of the creek." -Jim Hightower, in reference to politicians. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 22:58:14 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21966 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:58:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03639 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:16:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from raven.a001.sprintmail.com (raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03609 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP026.dialsprint.net [158.252.94.138]) by raven.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA06346 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3817B2B6.74D56DD2@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:19:35 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: [Fwd: Wee Wasps Vanquish Big Bad Beetles] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F40D6E670A8087C5F3F9BE7E" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3484 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F40D6E670A8087C5F3F9BE7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sanetters, What a new and fascinating idea by our USDA! (I'm being as sarcastic as I can.) I remember years ago when I was working for a food co-op, reading about how some company (Eden Foods?) released predators into their grain silos to keep down the number of grain pests. Their grain was condemned by FDA as contaminated and they were told they couldn't do this, that they would have to add poisons just like everyone else. My, how times have changed! Alex --------------F40D6E670A8087C5F3F9BE7E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from sun.ars-grin.gov (sun.ars-grin.gov [192.100.146.9]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03605 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by sun.ars-grin.gov (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id KAA09490 for ars-news-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:23:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: sun.ars-grin.gov: majordom set sender to owner-ars-news using -f Message-ID: <002401bf2086$47c89f20$241b85c7@sbauer.asrrusda.gov> From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Wee Wasps Vanquish Big Bad Beetles Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:19:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-ars-news@sun.ars-grin.gov Precedence: bulk X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 STORY LEAD: Wee Wasps Vanquish Big Bad Beetles ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Linda McGraw, (309) 681-6530, lmcgraw@asrr.arsusda.gov October 27, 1999 ----------- Good things really do come in small packages. Just ask Agricultural Research Service entomologists in Manhattan, Kan., who found that tiny, normally harmless wasps about a quarter-inch long can control insect pests in stored grains. Biological control is an important part of integrated pest management for stored commodities such as wheat, corn, or grain sorghum, according to Paul W. Flinn and David W. Hagstrum of ARS' Grain Marketing and Production Research Center. Damage caused by larvae of the lesser grain borer, rice weevil and maize weevil costs the U.S. wheat industry millions of dollars annually. The tiny wasps, Theocolax elegans, don't feed on grain but on lesser grain borer larvae that typically attack commodities stored in bins and elevators. For their study, the researchers used six 1,000-bushel bins filled with wheat. They released the parasitic wasps into three of the bins. Next, they released lesser grain borers into all six bins. After 131 days of storage, the beetles were reduced by 91 percent in the treated bins compared to the bins without wasps. The Manhattan researchers then milled the wheat flour and sent it to the Federal Grain Inspection Service in Kansas City, Mo. FGIS analyzed it for insect fragments. Flour from the wheat exposed to wasps had 89 percent fewer insect fragments than flour from the control bins. That's because the harmless adult wasps stay outside the grain kernels, so they are easily removed when grain is cleaned in flour mills. ---------- Scientific contact: Paul W. Flinn, ARS Grain Marketing and Production Research Center, 1515 College Avenue, Manhattan, KS 66502, phone (785) 776-2707, fax (785) 537-5594, flinn@usgrmrl.ksu.edu. ---------- This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504- 1617, fax 504-1648. --------------F40D6E670A8087C5F3F9BE7E-- To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Wed Oct 27 23:28:40 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22433 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01420 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:56:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01369 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-001tnchatP299.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.37]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26418 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3817BC45.17EA7F06@sprintmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:00:21 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Information Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3485 Folks, I've been trying to track down Greg Watson. He was involved with New Alchemy Institute and later served as head of the state ag dept. for the state of Massachusetts. While in that position, he spoke here (Chattanooga) and referred to a study they did on the economic impact of agriculture on the state's economy. It was the basis for his reforms there and promotion of locally grown food. What I need is how to reach him or how to find a copy of this study. A group of us here have started an initiative to bring locally grown food back to this area and preserve what's left of our farms. An economics professor here has volunteered her classes to do studies as projects, but she needs an idea of where to start and what the parameters are. So, if you know anything about this, please let me know. Thanks, Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 10:00:32 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28515 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26726 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:27:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov (cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov [199.146.249.191]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26690 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:26:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tn.nrcs.usda.gov by cook.tncookevi2.fsc.usda.gov with ESMTP (8.7.6/itc-cust.Revision: 1.11 $) id MAA00660; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:52:18 GMT Message-ID: <381846DC.FAB88A6A@tn.nrcs.usda.gov> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:51:41 -0500 From: mike richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; UNIX_SV 4.2MP i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: RE: Free range eggs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3486 Along with Extension programs for kids that raise chickens, I would suggest you check with local farm stores and/or farm cataloges for small incubators. You should be able to find pretty much anything you want for size, price, etc. I have had neighbors before that have used incubators from a half dozen size to 6 dozen at a time. Son of Richard To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 10:21:53 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28870 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18641 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:02:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18556 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.0142F27A@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:00:12 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 28 Oct 99 10:00:08 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 28 Oct 99 09:59:54 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:59:46 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: political change In-reply-to: <199910272053.QAA22223@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3487 Misha shared the following: >*Donate gobs of cash to politicians who can vouch for your interests. Take >the gambling-industry-funded attack ads on politicians who criticize what >gambling spokespeople like to term "family entertainment," which >successfully stifled the grassroots movement into limiting gambling >expansion. Examples include video-gaming interests in South Carolina, >which contributed $400, 000 to defeat David Beasley, the Republican >governor and critic of gambling, and which donated $500,000 to the >Republican National Committee to run attack ads against Democratic >Governor and gambling critic Parris Glendening. Imagine, if you will, a country where the politicians are not allowed to take PAC money, where campaign "war chests" are limited to a reasonable level (attainable by resourceful people who are not Trumps, Forbs or Bushes) , where campaign tv and newspaper add spaces are allocated before hand and not to be sold to the highest bidder. Imagine, if money were not the barrier to running for or staying in office. Now, once that candidate is in power, he or she can AFFORD to listen to his/her *consituents* and can afford to make decisions which are in the public good but which might run counter to the profit-interests of company X. Hmmm. Might we get better anti-trust enforcement? Might we get better city planning? Might we get better product liablility? Might we get better enforcement of environmental laws? Might we get few subsidies for those who are already skimming the cream from the top? Might we get some solutions which also work for the LONG RUN PUBLIC INTEREST? In short, might we get the government to actually and consistantly do it's job as the manager of the public realm, allocation of public goods, reduction of public bads, etc? I certainly think so. Maybe this idea of mine is a little Utopian, maybe it won't be so easy to get those big greedy hands out of all the pies they've been in for so long. Maybe they'll always be some corruption and money will always "talk." But couldn't we at least make an effort to get money to just simply "talk" and not scream and totally dominate the conversation as it does now? Anita Anita Graf Research Coordinator Market Development of Organic Agricultural Products 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 11:07:11 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29708 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07927 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:41:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (smtp.ncc-mannheim.net [62.104.117.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07804 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [62.132.27.12] (may be forged)) by smtp.ncc-mannheim.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20745 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:41:01 +0200 Received: from lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (LUFA.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de [192.168.3.254]) by www.lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04052 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:42:19 +0200 Received: from LUFA/SpoolDir by lufa-sp.vdlufa.de (Mercury 1.44); 28 Oct 99 16:34:46 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by LUFA (Mercury 1.44); 28 Oct 99 16:34:42 +0100 From: "Klaus Wiegand" Organization: Landw. U.-& Forsch.-Anstalt Speyer To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:34:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Another perspective - subsidies Reply-to: Wiegand@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <37B7B5C27@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3488 hello ronald, >Transaction costs are what a firm has to invest in order to >maintain the rules of doing business. "The cost of doing >business". North estimates that transaction costs were around >25% of the economy at the end of the last century; now they >represent something like 85%. (Think of money spent lobbying, for >example) This is clearly indicative of a major change in "the >way of doing business", in the institutional context >of "the market". GEMA Summary April, 15 1998: Amount spent to produce food consumed in the US in 1996 (farm cost): $126 billion. Amount spent on marketing it: $421 billion that results in two questions: i assume, there is a reason, why marketing costs are so high and that the big resellers made a calculation on the optimum level of advertisement. question 1: why are the resellers investing such enormous sums in marketing ? is it useful for direct marketers to consider more advertising and invest more money in marketing than before ? question 2: how are these subsidies distributed ? WHO gets WHAT part of the whole cake ? you can make more money, if you transport one bull from hamburg to argentinia and the steaks back to hamburg than from raising the bull itsself. reason: subsidies for exporting the bull... i strongly doubt, that the real farming community gets a considerable piece of the cake... anyone got numbers about the shares for farmers, resellers, marketing, transport ?? the European community is shifting to pay the subsidies (less than before, but exclusivly and DIRECTLY, so there is a net gain for him AND the european bank) to the farmer. that means: the farmer himself can decide much better, if a certain task is useful for production or not. good idea... klaus --------------- klaus wiegand +-[Quote of the day, powered by k. wiegand]-----+ | | | Tell your doctor, that y'are ill | | And what does he, but write a bill, | | Of which you need not read one letter, | | The worse the scrawl, the dose the better. | | Matthew Matthew Prior (1664-1721) | +-----------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 12:32:24 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01430 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07683 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:31:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07672 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lanfear.nidlink.com (root@lanfear.nidlink.com [216.18.128.7]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07154 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enaila.nidlink.com (root@enaila.nidlink.com [216.18.128.8]) by lanfear.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA13227; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from benbrook (pm9-40.nidlink.com [216.18.141.95]) by enaila.nidlink.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA02084; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:29:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199910281529.IAA02084@enaila.nidlink.com> X-Sender: benbrook@mail.nidlink.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:42:51 -0700 To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu, From: Charles Benbrook Subject: Subsidies and Priorities Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3489 A post this a.m. on this tread included the following: "GEMA Summary April, 15 1998: Amount spent to produce food consumed in the US in 1996 (farm cost): $126 billion. Amount spent on marketing it: $421 billion" Yesterday Steve Suppan of IATP sent me a short piece by a Montana wheat farmer, Jerry Sikorski entitled "Oversupply or Monopoly?". It includes this passage: "Tiger Woods gets paid ten cents for having his picture on each box of Wheaties, and the farmer gets five cents for raising the wheat." Can this really be true? I hope someone will pursue this further. chuck Charles Benbrook CU FQPA site www.ecologic-ipm.com Benbrook Consulting Services Ag BioTech InfoNet www.biotech-info.net 5085 Upper Pack River Road IPM site www.pmac.net Sandpoint, Idaho 83864 208-263-5236 (Voice) 208-263-7342 (Fax) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 14:18:50 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03974 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05666 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:17:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05602 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ncatark.uark.edu ([130.184.56.248]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08855 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from REXD.uark.edu ([130.184.56.55]) by ncatark.uark.edu (8.8.7/UW7.1.0) with SMTP id MAA02490 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:15:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910281715.MAA02490@ncatark.uark.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Rex Dufour" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:11:12 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re: political change Reply-to: rexd@ncatark.uark.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3490 Anita, I couldn't agree more completely...One of the keys to sustainability is, oddly enough, campaign finance reform. As long as corporations are allowed to skew the financing of political races, the focus of politicians will be more or less dictated by corporations and their interests--which can be characterized as being short term profits (sometimes) at the expense of society. I don't mean to imply that corporations are actively against social good (although this often seems the case...), it's simply not something that's very high in the corporate conscience priority list and often conflicts with corporations' pursuit of profits. There are certainly exceptions to this rule, but our country is not being overwhelmed by enlightened capitalists... An interesting lesson in this and what can happen to a country that allows it politicians to be sold to the highest bidder is J. Michner's historical novel "Poland". Poland's several attempts to institute representative democracy were consistantly subverted by representatives taking money from outside interests to thwart the national good. As other posts have pointed out, international trade and the WTO are threatening to overwhelm domestic environmental legislation. WTO's politicians/economists/negotiators are willing to sacrifice environmental (external) costs for the sake of international trade. Large corporations are mostly transnational entities which now transcend national boundaries and interests and they're financing politicians, through PACs and other means, that support their (the corporations') views. My view is that campaign finance reform is the single most important issue of the 2000 election. Rex Dufour > From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" > To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:59:46 EST5EDT > Subject: political change > Misha shared the following: > >*Donate gobs of cash to politicians who can vouch for > >your interests. Take the gambling-industry-funded attack > >ads on politicians who criticize what gambling > >spokespeople like to term "family entertainment," which > >successfully stifled the grassroots movement into > >limiting gambling expansion. Examples include > >video-gaming interests in South Carolina, which > >contributed $400, 000 to defeat David Beasley, the > >Republican governor and critic of gambling, and which > >donated $500,000 to the Republican National Committee to > >run attack ads against Democratic Governor and gambling > >critic Parris Glendening. > > Imagine, if you will, a country where the politicians are > not allowed to take PAC money, where campaign "war chests" > are limited to a reasonable level (attainable by > resourceful people who are not Trumps, Forbs or Bushes) , > where campaign tv and newspaper add spaces are allocated > before hand and not to be sold to the highest bidder. > Imagine, if money were not the barrier to running for or > staying in office. Now, once that candidate is in power, > he or she can AFFORD to listen to his/her *consituents* > and can afford to make decisions which are in the public > good but which might run counter to the profit-interests > of company X. Hmmm. Might we get better anti-trust > enforcement? Might we get better city planning? Might we > get better product liablility? Might we get better > enforcement of environmental laws? Might we get few > subsidies for those who are already skimming the cream > from the top? Might we get some solutions which also work > for the LONG RUN PUBLIC INTEREST? In short, might we get > the government to actually and consistantly do it's job as > the manager of the public realm, allocation of public > goods, reduction of public bads, etc? > > I certainly think so. Maybe this idea of mine is a little > Utopian, maybe it won't be so easy to get those big greedy > hands out of all the pies they've been in for so long. > Maybe they'll always be some corruption and money will > always "talk." But couldn't we at least make an effort to > get money to just simply "talk" and not scream and totally > dominate the conversation as it does now? > > Anita > Anita Graf > Research Coordinator > Market Development of Organic Agricultural Products > 313-F Conner Hall > Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics > University of Georgia > Athens, GA 30602-7509 > (706) 542-1915 phone > (706) 542-0739 fax > agraf@agecon.uga.edu > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the > command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest > format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To > Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the > command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 14:19:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03990 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11042 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:31:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lobster.eky.com (root@lobster.eky.com [209.211.1.2]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10968 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:30:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from halsdesktop (ip3-2.eky.com [209.211.3.2]) by lobster.eky.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05760; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:29:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hal Hamilton" To: , Subject: RE: Another perspective - subsidies Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:25:44 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <37B7B5C27@lufa-sp.vdlufa.de> Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3491 Klaus wrote: Amount spent to produce food consumed in the US in 1996 (farm cost): $126 billion. Amount spent on marketing it: $421 billion Is this why the papers in the US are reporting that obesity is growing at an emormous pace? Hal Hamilton Center for Sustainable Systems 433 Chestnut St., Berea KY 40403 USA Phone: (606) 986-5336; Fax: (606) 986-1299 hhamilton@centerss.org To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 14:35:20 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04312 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05027 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:16:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from amani.ces.ncsu.edu (amani.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.51]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04864 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by amani.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08848 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:14:39 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'Dan Hook'" , sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: free range eggs Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:14:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3492 -----Original Message----- From: Dan Hook [mailto:guldann@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 4:10 PM To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu; Edna M Weigel Subject: Re: free range eggs . . . . . My two cents I cannot believe that free range eggs are not higher in nutrients how can a yolk be that yellow and not be higher in Vit. A? Thanks Beth Beth - I read a few years back that a lot of the yellow was actually caused by the increased chlorophyll that a free range chicken ingests from grass, etc.. The firmness caused by the increased protein from insects rather than grain in commercial feed. This with all of the other 'trace' nutrients they get from scratching and pecking at everything. Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ A computer program will always do what you tell it to do, but rarely what you want it to do. ___________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 14:45:49 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04421 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22420 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:51:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22333 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sprintmail.com (sdn-ar-002tnchatP321.dialsprint.net [158.252.95.99]) by magpie.a001.sprintmail.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA23654 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <38188DDD.B80880BF@sprintmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:54:37 -0400 From: Alex McGregor Reply-To: waldenfarm@sprintmail.com Organization: Walden Farm X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French farmers ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3493 I would like to repeat something John wrote: "In general, the "market" will not provide the necessary incentives for a sustainable society. Markets reflect only the short-run self interests of individuals and sustainability is about the long run interests of humanity." And expand on it a bit. John speaks of a sustainable society, not sustainable agriculture. This is exactly what we need to attain a system of sust. ag. Agriculture will reflect society, as will the "market." We cannot have a sustainable system of agriculture in an unsustainable society. That's where our problem lies. And subsidies are our apology to agriculture. Alex To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 15:12:10 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05108 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10927 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:22:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from taurus.greensoft.com ([204.77.122.1]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10821 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:22:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webserf.net (unverified [10.0.0.101]) by taurus.greensoft.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:25:27 -0500 Message-ID: Received: from bluestem [204.77.126.145] by webserf.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A41A6750282; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:21:14 CDT From: "Bluestem Associates" To: "sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu" Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:19:56 +0100 Reply-To: "Bluestem Associates" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: political change Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3494 On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:59:46 EST5EDT, Anita Graf (Staff) wrote: >Imagine, if you will, a country where the politicians are not allowed >to take PAC money, where campaign "war chests" are limited to a >reasonable level (attainable by resourceful people who are not >Trumps, Forbs or Bushes) , where campaign tv and newspaper add spaces >are allocated before hand and not to be sold to the highest bidder. >Imagine, if money were not the barrier to running for or staying in >office. Now, once that candidate is in power, he or she can AFFORD >to listen to his/her *consituents* and can afford to make decisions >which are in the public good but which might run counter to the >profit-interests of company X. Broadly descriptive of Canadian rules, at least back in the late 80s when I was a vp of my federal MP's Riding (district) Committee. Up until the last two lines or so, anyhow. Maybe they can afford to do, but rarely actually *do.* Our MP was decisively relegated to the back benches (of government) because he took the side of his constituents rather too often. Hmmm. Might we get better anti-trust >enforcement? Might we get better city planning? Might we get better >product liablility? Might we get better enforcement of environmental >laws? Might we get few subsidies for those who are already skimming >the cream from the top? Might we get some solutions which also work >for the LONG RUN PUBLIC INTEREST? Based on my experience in Canada ... nope. Same shit, different windrow. >In short, might we get the >government to actually and consistantly do it's job as the manager of >the public realm, allocation of public goods, reduction of public >bads, etc? >From 1971 to 1991 Canadian federal government expenditures increased by four times, adjusted for inflation. I doubt many Canadians felt four times better defended, educated, protected, etc. etc. in 1991 than they did in 1971. You'd have to convince me that the election spending rules produced any noticeable improvement in government. Bart To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 15:45:33 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05627 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27871 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:56:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from ntscspdcexch1.caldwellspartin ([208.24.177.8]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27843 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by NTSCSPDCEXCH1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:54:48 -0400 Message-ID: From: Walker Bennett To: "'Anita Graf (Staff)'" , sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: political change Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:54:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3495 Anita: As a fellow Georgian (and US citizen), I can't agree more. I've often thought that there should be a poll among candidates. Whoever wants the job is automatically disqualified! Keep in mind that George Washington was way down the list of choices for President...the other's didn't want it. How about a national lottery every 4 years using the SSNs of everyone (male-female, black-white-yellow...whatever) over 35. The winner (looser?) has to be president for 4 years? Can't be worse than we've had in recent history. Walker Bennett wbennett@caldwellspartin.com wabennett@gw.total-web.net w_bennett@msn.com ___________________________________________________________ A computer program will always do what you tell it to do, but rarely what you want it to do. ___________________________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: Anita Graf (Staff) [mailto:agraf@agecon.uga.edu] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 6:00 AM To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: political change Misha shared the following: >*Donate gobs of cash to politicians who can vouch for your interests. Take >the gambling-industry-funded attack ads on politicians who criticize what >gambling spokespeople like to term "family entertainment," which >successfully stifled the grassroots movement into limiting gambling >expansion. Examples include video-gaming interests in South Carolina, >which contributed $400, 000 to defeat David Beasley, the Republican >governor and critic of gambling, and which donated $500,000 to the >Republican National Committee to run attack ads against Democratic >Governor and gambling critic Parris Glendening. Imagine, if you will, a country where the politicians are not allowed to take PAC money, where campaign "war chests" are limited to a reasonable level (attainable by resourceful people who are not Trumps, Forbs or Bushes) , where campaign tv and newspaper add spaces are allocated before hand and not to be sold to the highest bidder. Imagine, if money were not the barrier to running for or staying in office. Now, once that candidate is in power, he or she can AFFORD to listen to his/her *consituents* and can afford to make decisions which are in the public good but which might run counter to the profit-interests of company X. Hmmm. Might we get better anti-trust enforcement? Might we get better city planning? Might we get better product liablility? Might we get better enforcement of environmental laws? Might we get few subsidies for those who are already skimming the cream from the top? Might we get some solutions which also work for the LONG RUN PUBLIC INTEREST? In short, might we get the government to actually and consistantly do it's job as the manager of the public realm, allocation of public goods, reduction of public bads, etc? I certainly think so. Maybe this idea of mine is a little Utopian, maybe it won't be so easy to get those big greedy hands out of all the pies they've been in for so long. Maybe they'll always be some corruption and money will always "talk." But couldn't we at least make an effort to get money to just simply "talk" and not scream and totally dominate the conversation as it does now? Anita Anita Graf Research Coordinator Market Development of Organic Agricultural Products 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 16:42:43 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07027 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25614 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:45:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailgw.cc.uga.edu (mailgw.cc.uga.edu [128.192.1.101]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25356 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from agecon.uga.edu (agecon1.agecon.uga.edu) by mailgw.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.01435428@mailgw.cc.uga.edu>; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:43:35 -0400 Received: from AGECON/SpoolDir by agecon.uga.edu (Mercury 1.43); 28 Oct 99 15:43:32 EST5EDT Received: from SpoolDir by AGECON (Mercury 1.43); 28 Oct 99 15:43:03 EST5EDT From: "Anita Graf (Staff)" To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:42:58 EST5EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: political reform In-reply-to: <199910281718.NAA06596@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3496 Hi Alex, I'll stick with your Jim Hightower quote, and continue to say that the creek needs to be dried up so the hogs can't wallow there any more (the "creek" being big money). I totally agree that "voting with your dollar" is very powerful, but I still don't think it's enough. There are a couple of barriers I see. First, in many towns, there is no longer a *choice* as to what hardware store, book store or coffee shop to patronize. Also, I don't think there are significant numbers of people who understand the imlications to all their purchases or care to stop their stressed out lives to find out. Education is important, but every year that education creeps along at the grassroots level, more small proprieters and farmers go out of business, many more mega-mergers take place, more horrible toxins get dumped on the environment, and the Fat Cats just keep getting fatter. Also, not everyone is as disciplined and able to avoid temptation (lower prices, better service, nicer decor) then you and I and continue to shop at local yokal places. In any case, I think this issue is way bigger then just small biz vs. big biz. The lack of a truly democratic public sector effects us in every possible way. The incentives for people to "do the right thing" are few and far between, and the economic and political motivations in this country are all wacky. (I think it would be quite fair to say also that in the last generation, many of the social constraints to wonton greed and profit-at-any-cost have crumbled in the wake of changing social norms as well.) If the ozone disappears, if global warming and massive deforestation change the nature of life as we know it, if the majority of have-lesses in this country become "have-not-at-alls" I don't see how even the Microsofts, Monsontos, General Motors, etc are going to survive, but I don't see things going in any other direction the way we are headed. Granted, most of the global problems need global solutions, but getting the incentives corrected in this country would have global implications. Meanwhile, I do continue to vote with my tiny dollar (mostly a negative vote by not buying most of the junk out there), but I feel like a grain of sand on the beach, and the other guys have bulldozers. Anita > Anita, > > Yes, but how do we get rid of the Big Guys? Answer: DON'T BUY THEIR > CRAP! If nobody showed up at any Walmart stores, they'd be bankrupt in a > matter of days. Their empires are built on cash flow and any > interruption spells doom. > > It's not a matter of boycotting, it's a matter of education- Why should > you spend your dollar somewhere else? > > And, the whole corporate structure is built on confidence just like the > American dollar. Many years ago, we had the value of all currency > circulating stashed as gold to back it up. We could go to the gummint > and get that much gold for our dollars. Then it was changed to silver. > Read a dollar bill now. It says "Federal Reserve Note." Not even a > government agency. What we have now is an agreement that a dollar is > worth a dollar to all of us. If we all of a sudden say, "Wait a minute, > this is just a piece of paper," the whole system would crash. > > So, we can't change the election system- the elected officials make the > laws. And they're not going to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. > But we can buy FROM THE PEOPLE and make economic decisions FOR THE > PEOPLE and let ConAgra & ADM eat their own products. > > But, alas, there are whores everywhere that will do anything for money > and/or fame. However, we have a choice about what we want to be. Just > because everyone else is selling their souls doesn't mean we have to. > > Alex > "The water will never clear up 'til you get the hogs out of the creek." > - -Jim Hightower, in reference to politicians. > Anita Graf Research Coordinator Market Development of Organic Agricultural Products 313-F Conner Hall Dept. of Agricultural and Applied Economics University of Georgia Athens, GA 30602-7509 (706) 542-1915 phone (706) 542-0739 fax agraf@agecon.uga.edu To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 17:59:44 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08976 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21337 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:19:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from kermit.futura.net (Kermit.futura.net [209.12.246.9]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21294 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [209.194.159.76] by kermit.futura.net (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id aa464022 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:13:58 -0500 Message-ID: <001001bf2189$d4175bc0$4c9fc2d1@jvworstell> From: "Jim Worstell" To: , References: <38188DDD.B80880BF@sprintmail.com> Subject: Re: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French farmers ) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:17:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Info: Phoenix - gateway to Futura Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3497 I hope sustainability becomes concerned with more than the long run interests of humanity. But maybe the we have to abandon sustainability for deep ecology if we are interested in more than the interests of humanity. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex McGregor To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 12:54 PM Subject: Another perspective on the issue of subsidies (was French farmers ) > I would like to repeat something John wrote: > > "In general, the "market" will not provide the necessary incentives for > a > sustainable society. Markets reflect only the short-run self interests > of > individuals and sustainability is about the long run interests of > humanity." > > And expand on it a bit. John speaks of a sustainable society, not > sustainable agriculture. This is exactly what we need to attain a system > of sust. ag. Agriculture will reflect society, as will the "market." We > cannot have a sustainable system of agriculture in an unsustainable > society. That's where our problem lies. > > And subsidies are our apology to agriculture. > > Alex > > > To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command > "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". > To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command > "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". > > All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: > http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 21:09:51 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11373 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05229 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:28:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05158 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:27:00 -0500 X-ROUTED: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:27:00 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.219] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 1348313c ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:26:50 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991028191426.008f4650@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:14:26 -0500 To: Subject: RE: free range eggs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3498 >Subject: RE: free range eggs > I read a few years back that a lot of the yellow was actually caused >by the increased chlorophyll that a free range chicken ingests from grass, >etc.. The firmness caused by the increased protein from insects rather than >grain in commercial feed. This with all of the other 'trace' nutrients they >get from scratching and pecking at everything. Alright, you all have me convinced. I have wanted to start with a few chickens here on the farm but how do free range birds hold up with the red-tailed hawks, raccoons, possums, owls and my major worry, my barn cat, who the other morning brought me a adult rabbit as big as he is. (looked like a mini-lion dragging the rabbit between his legs)? Then there are the coyotes and wild dog pack from people in the city who dump their unwanted litters out here in the country. I figure I would have to cover any chicken pen just to assure there would be chickens left after the first month. What is your experience? Would I just be feeding the wildlife? Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 21:38:07 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11633 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02237 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:09:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02166 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from epix.net (wlbo-98ppp191.epix.net [199.224.98.191]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/1999100101/PL) with ESMTP id VAA18976 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:05:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3818F316.18B99D9C@epix.net> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:06:30 -0400 From: Jim Weaver Reply-To: jaweaver@epix.net Organization: GCES X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Check this out References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3499 Ignorance imperils future of agriculture Farmers are in fight or flee mode; they are confused, scared and angry, observed Ed Shonsey, the president and CEO of Novartis Seeds, Thursday in an Iowa speech. "And you know what bothers them the most?" he asked. "It's not the government. Or the weather. Or even the seed companies. What has farmers upset -- so upset their eternal optimism is in serious danger of becoming permanent pessimism -- is ignorance. Ignorance. Ignorance on the part of a group of people, who, in the name of protecting the environment, have imperiled the near-term future of agricultural biotechnology." He makes an impassioned case for the science behind, and the potentially great benefits of biotechnology. Read the full text of his speech here: http://www.agriculture.com/scgi/notebook/nb.cgi?FNC=Correspondents__Anb_list_html___780 To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Thu Oct 28 23:52:41 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13067 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01667 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:17:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mail.pcsia.com (mail.pcsia.com [206.162.14.3]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01611 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:17:22 -0400 (EDT) From: mmiller@pcsia.com Received: from www.pcsia.com (unverified [206.162.14.2]) by mail.pcsia.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:15:34 -0500 X-ROUTED: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:15:34 -0600 X-TCP-IDENTITY: MMiller Received: from [206.162.14.162] by www.pcsia.com with smtp id 161f0f3c ; Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:15:14 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991028220252.008ac7d0@pcsia.com> X-Sender: mmiller@pcsia.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:02:52 -0500 To: Subject: Bad News for Dursban/Chlorpyrifos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3500 >From the ENS. See http://ens.lycos.com/ens/oct99/1999L-10-28-06.html. "The EPAs reassessment of chlorpyrifos finds significant risks to humans and wildlife from outdoor uses of the pesticide. The chemical is so widely used that "the majority of the U.S. population is exposed to chlorpyrifos," the EPAs preliminary risk report states. The report notes that previous studies have shown that 82 percent of American adults and 92 percent of children studied have traces of the chemical in their urine." Note the company response excerpted below. "Dow AgroSciences has already responded to the study, saying that it includes a "tremendous number of errors and omissions." The company says chlorpyrifos is quite safe." Same old, same old. Mike Miller To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 00:36:27 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13576 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09806 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:08:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09692 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:08:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13280; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:06:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22289; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:06:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:06:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: mmiller@pcsia.com cc: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Bad News for Dursban/Chlorpyrifos In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991028220252.008ac7d0@pcsia.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu id AAA09705 Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3501 On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 mmiller@pcsia.com wrote: > "The EPAs reassessment of chlorpyrifos finds significant risks to humans > > Note the company response excerpted below. > > "Dow AgroSciences has already responded to the study, saying that it > includes a "tremendous number of errors and omissions." The company says > chlorpyrifos is quite safe." They're no different than the tobacco industry in their denial of the obvious, only their products are potentially more pervasive and dangerous to human health; invisible widespread pesticide contamination of our environment is harder to avoid than simply "not smoking" to avoid lung cancer. To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 00:39:38 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13600 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA12301 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from luna.oit.unc.edu (luna.oit.unc.edu [152.2.22.4]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12295 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.oit.unc.edu (titan.metalab.unc.edu [152.19.254.14]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13383 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (london@localhost) by titan.oit.unc.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6/rchk1.19) with ESMTP id AAA22399 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:13:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: titan.oit.unc.edu: london owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:13:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." X-Sender: london@titan.oit.unc.edu To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Check this out In-Reply-To: <3818F316.18B99D9C@epix.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3502 On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Jim Weaver wrote: > Ignorance imperils future of agriculture > http://www.agriculture.com/scgi/notebook/nb.cgi?FNC=Correspondents__Anb_list_html___780 an excerpt from the page: And three billion people who've never made a phone call living in a world where the faux protectors of the environment are more concerned about what might, conceivably, possibly and perhaps happen to one or two or three species of wild grass than they are about the billions of people who suffer from diseases and conditions which we are now able to -- or soon will be able to -- treat, if not cure, with science unheard of even as recently as five years ago such as eliminating salmonella. And I'll bet those 3 billion folks pray that they never see GE seeds hawked in their country, by 1990's versions of the perpetrators of the "Green Revolution" (IMF, World Bank, WTO, etc., Monsanto and others) To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail From owner-sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu Fri Oct 29 02:31:48 1999 Received: from shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (shasta.ces.ncsu.edu [152.1.45.61]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14664 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 02:31:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA11032 for sanet-mg-outgoing; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:46:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shasta.ces.ncsu.edu: majord set sender to owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu using -f Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net ([170.76.16.10]) by shasta.ces.ncsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10939 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:46:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [148.233.231.7] by mailmtx.acnet.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-52476U50000L50000S0V35) with SMTP id net; Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:44:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:42:18 -0600 From: Douglas Hinds X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.36) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Reply-To: Douglas Hinds Organization: CeDeCoR, A.C. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <929.991029@acnet.net> To: Alex McGregor CC: "sanet-mg@shasta.ces.ncsu.edu" Subject: Re[2]: Time and the "Benefit" of BT Corn In-reply-To: <38147AAB.D1B193E0@sprintmail.com> References: <38147AAB.D1B193E0@sprintmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3503 Hello Alex, Monday, October 25, 1999, 9:43:39 AM, you wrote: AMcG> Greetings Douglas, AMcG> You wrote: >> Does anyone else believe as I do, that GMO's are simply a more >> obvious (and probably more dangerous, due to their potential for >> extended proliferation), manifestation of the same mentality that >> brought us grafted trees ... AMcG> Of course, GMOs are the same mentality. This mentality has been AMcG> operating since the beginning of agriculture. (Keep in mind that AMcG> any type of cultivation is unnatural.) I can't agree. I would say that agriculture (or cultivation) is by nature the recreation of a given set of natural circumstances that are fortuitous to a desired outcome. What human intervention does is extend the envelope, recreating these "desirable" (or appropriate) conditions in places where they would most likely not happen, in and of themselves. But that doesn't make them unnatural. We just help out, facilitate things. Also, here we are talking about whole processes, as well as moving whole natural elements around a bit. The process of splicing tissues within distinct organisms (grafting) is THE direct antecedent to splicing genes from distinct organisms, using unnatural and invasive methods for doing so, in both cases. The methods are OUR (human) methods, not helping the plant to use it's own methods (genetics). These particular human methods are divorced from the nature of the plant. AMcG> We started out just selecting individual plants for their AMcG> properties, but that wasn't good enough. Then we had to start AMcG> cross pollinating for characteristics. (grafting is just a AMcG> mutation of this.) There are natural (evolutionary) mutations - although perhaps they're not true mutations. The "sport" is a good example - a (slightly) new variety that inexplicably appears on a particular branch of a fruit tree - and there are freak (abrupt, non-continuous) ones, often caused by invasive conditions that are incongruous to the homeostasis of the plant. AMcG> This led us to hybrids Hybrids are simply the results of natural breeding methods (cross pollination) that happen to NOT reproduce true to seed, due the instability of the particular genetic cross. Further cross breeding (continued seed selection) can sometimes revert this reversion to type. In other words, if the cross proves stable and reproduces true to type, you've got a new OP variety on your hands, which is harder to make proprietary. It has also been found that the tension involved in a genetic cross that is inherently unstable can sometimes introduce a kind of temporary (since it doesn't reproduce) vigor in the progeny. AMcG> and then to GMOs. All of this is a manipulation of nature, Totally different processes, totally different types of manipulation. AMcG> so there are no sacred cows, such as heirloom varieties or AMcG> standard fruit trees. Untrue. Heirloom or standard varieties are so unlike GMO's they're polar opposites. I'm surprised to find you saying this. (How long were you breast fed, BTW)? AMcG> The goal initially, with selection, cross pollination and grafting AMcG> was to bend the plants to our needs- production, flavor and AMcG> nutrition. The goal of hybrids was to do all this AND own a AMcG> variety which didn't breed true- to make growers dependent on seed AMcG> companies. The same is true of GMOs. The dependency angle is same. But true genetic (rather than transgenetic) breeding techniques are not necessarily "bending" the plants but can be simply working with them, within the limitations of the plant's own nature, relative to the depth of the relationship between what they produce and our own needs - which is why it's a good relationship, and why it's appropriate (and mutually beneficial) to be working together, plants and people. AMcG> Sidebar: Does anyone else remember way back when? Hybrids were AMcG> touted as the wonderkids that would end world hunger. This is the AMcG> "rationale" behind GMOs. But we all know that it's an attempt to AMcG> sell more chemicals and "own" the varieties. But we know better, don't we. AMcG> Back to goals- It is the goal of agriculture (not agribusiness) to AMcG> produce the most food with the highest nutritional value with the AMcG> least inputs and to be able to do this indefinitely AMcG> (sustainably?). I would say best instead of most food, and sufficient inputs instead of least. AMcG> And I think you are right about insisting that we look at goals. AMcG> Most farming today has as its goal the economics. And pressure AMcG> continues to build from development, land values upping taxes and AMcG> the rest. Our goal should be to keep ourselves well fed (all of AMcG> us) and nurture the soil and the farmers to this end. The rest is AMcG> contrived. OK, so we do agree. >> The same invasive, out of context, self serving, myopic ball of >> pretexts; that justify actions which damage the integrity of other >> (and to my mind superior) organisms, producing (of course) an inferior >> human food supply system, as a disappointing, melodramatic result. AMcG> We do have an inferior food supply- inferior in feeding all and AMcG> inferior in nutrition. Our myopia is the short sightedness of our AMcG> institutions which are interested in profits today and how we can AMcG> manipulate our resources to subjugate and plunder others. AMcG> (Remember the concept of Food As a Weapon?"). Only someone insane would conceive that (unless the weapon was designed to make people healthier and happier). AMcG> What do the rest of you think? Are our goals in line and how we AMcG> try to attain them out of line, or is it the other way around? Or AMcG> are both wrong? AMcG> Alex Douglas Hinds, CeDeCoR, A.C. Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, Asociacion Civil (Center for Rural and Community Development, a non-profit organization) Cordoba, Veracruz; Cd. Guzman, Jalisco & Reynosa, Tamaulipas Mexico dmhinds@acnet.net, cedecor@acnet.net To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". If you receive the digest format, use the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg-digest". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail